BFA was pretty competent in retrospect, sure it had issues and the systems were janked but the lore was pretty awesome and the zones and raids were all pretty fun to be in. Compare that to now and let's be honest, even WoD had more satisfying content than shadowblands. The lore is a mess with zero production value, both end game zones so far have been just downright hostile to be in. the maw was huge and actually pretty cool in terms of visuals and lore but outright told you to get the fuck out until korthia made it irrelevant and just replaced it with a tiny bland island with some ruins that somehow feels more run down and depressing than detroit. The gear is ugly besides the covenants that will probably not fit your class fantasy (I mean for real Kyrian rogues?). The systems become irrelevant or trivial to minmax within a patch (rip venari, soulbinds and shards), mythic plus has been the same dungeons ever since launch, the main hub is essentially an empty airport, the raids are admittedly great as always, shame we only get 3. Am I missing anything?
I'm not sure how but blizzard managed to make a world that runs on souls feel entirely soulless.
Compare all that to the sheer production value of BFA. The zones felt lived in, the characters were compelling (by mmo standards), the gameplay had things to be desired, the systems were entirely alt-hostile and I'll never forgive how they did my boy n'zoth dirty but at least there was some merit to bfa.
Shadowlands feels entirely bereft of merit and I cannot wait to be done with it. Hopefully this last patch offers enough of a decent send-off as not to leave a sour taste in our collective mouths and blizz can get back on track with an expac in azeroth. Who knows? Maybe this was just a fluke of pandemic schedule chaos and that whole scandal and worker walkout.
gaylordpl ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 07:54:33 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Time gilds all memories. People hated Mists at the time, but now it's remembered as one of the best expansions. People have started to talk about WoD fondly. And now this. in 2025 people will make posts saying "Shadowlands wasn't THAT bad, the zones were good and the leveling was great" and so the wheel of "Current expansion bad, last expansion good" will forever keep turning.
UMCorian ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:08:15 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
People hated Mists for like the first patch. After 5.2, things turned around and into Timeless Isle, while of course there was negative feedback, the general feel seemed to be: This is fine.
cruffade ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:18:58 on February 19, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Some people say that already now though. In 2025 they just have less active opposition. People who liked BFA during BFA are most likely the ones defending it now, not the ones who hated it.
It blows my mind how much people love Mists now... I still think it's one of the worst and is definitely the point I drastically lost interest in the game. I just get nostalgic every now and again and pick it up.
I personally think Shadowlands had (slightly) better endgame with covenants
Though BfA leveling zones (not the dumb leveling scaling that made you weaker though fuck that shit), questing and map design is far far superior to anything Shadowlands has put out.
The likes of Boralus and Drustvar is so much better than Oribos and Ardenweald
I've said it before and i'll keep saying it. BFA was a genuinely fun expansion despite it flaws. Patch 8.2 & 8.3 were some of the best & most fun patches we've had in wow, eventho corruptions sucked pre vendor.
I dont think most people agree with you, They dumbed down classes, didnt rework any of them, didnt add any new abilities. Didnt add any new classes. (got races instead). Azerite grind was terrible, PVP grind was terrible (pve gear in pvp), story was terrible.
The only good thing about BFA was patch 8.2 even though everything else was bad. In my opinion BFA is just a different kind of bad than shadowlands but its still bad for a game that has millions and millions of dollars in investment over 20 years. We should be expecting more.
I remember the devs talking to somebody on a live stream on the beta at blizzcon and hotted was like "I really miss full moon on balance druid will it come back". The dev was so confused that he missed the ability, it was so strange to see a dev so disconnected.
Obviously the game could've been much better, like I mentioned it had a lot of flaws. I can only speak for myself, but the game was still really fun despite the flaws.
Essences & Corruptions were some of the most fun power systems to play with. 8.3 m+ was also one of the very best seasons we've ever had
I might just be an old school player, but my favorite power systems is just gear. for 10 years players just wanted new raids new content. We didnt need long patches with secondary power systems like artifact, covernant, essences etc.
I personally think secondary power systems was a mistake, i know blizz wanted to add them to increase chores\character progression but it just ended up burning players out/removing alts from the game for most people/ confusing people. I hate secondary systems and i hope they remove them completely next patch. We dont need cool abilities to be gated behind artifact or any other chore like grind. Its all just metric system designs to get people to log in every single day\week even when they dont want to play.
It's always been more complicated than just plain old gear though. Things like sockets, meta gems, glyphs, reforging, legendary items like MoP cloak, sha-touched gems, powerful enchants, profession bonuses etc.
It's kind of a tricky situation though. If they just give us plain old gear with nothing new it gets stale. If they keep adding spells we'll end up with serious bloat, ability bloat was a big complaint in MoP which was before they started pruning. Borrowed power also gives more creative freedom in a sense. No need to worry about how a certain spell would affect things down the line if it's really powerful. The downside ofc is that if you have something powerful that is really fun, you'll eventually lose it.
What's worse? Playing with your class for close to a decade and then have a bunch of spells & abilities pruned from your class? Or having expansion based systems that you know will get pruned eventually? The first situation happened in MoP and I remember how awful it felt going from MoP to the WoD prepatch with how my class felt. I've also experienced the expansion based systems of Legion, BFA & currently SL.
Honestly it's an increadily difficult situation and I don't know if there is a correct answer here. Idk which one is worse option out of the two.
I agree with your other points though. I hate how there are so many chores you have to do everyday to keep up nowadays. I also hate how things aren't account-wide and alt friendly.
It's kind of a tricky situation though. If they just give us plain old gear with nothing new it gets stale. If they keep adding spells we'll end up with serious bloat, ability bloat was a big complaint in MoP which was before they started pruning. Borrowed power also gives more creative freedom in a sense. No need to worry about how a certain spell would affect things down the line if it's really powerful. The downside ofc is that if you have something powerful that is really fun, you'll eventually lose it.
I dont agree, Gems, Glyphs,reforging was never a long expansion wide grind with dailies and chores it was all instant. The only thing you brought up that was valid was Legendary Mop cloak. Even Sha_touched gems you didnt need to grind dailies or secondary systems fore it all came from the content you did (raiding) from memory?
You say "its a tricky situation". But i dont agree, people played for 10 years and didnt get bored. You say if they only give us gear is gets stale? Well people where quite happy all the way up to MOP with no artifact like secondary system grind. You say it would get stale but i argue the reason the game gets stale is because gear sets need more interesting tier sets and they need to release content on a faster cadence.
What's worse? Playing with your class for close to a decade and then have a bunch of spells & abilities pruned from your class? Or having expansion based systems that you know will get pruned eventually? The first situation happened in MoP and I remember how awful it felt going from MoP to the WoD prepatch with how my class felt. I've also experienced the expansion based systems of Legion, BFA & currently SL.
Going from MOP to WOD and the pruning that happened was not due to secondary systems. The devs said that they wanted to simplify classes and put the difficulty in the content (raiding) rather than the class. Blizz should add new abilities and new things every expansion and then ever so often do a rework. Just like all other MMORPGS.
tldr-
Secondary systems killed alts, they burn players out and they are designed so you have to log in every single day to do boring quests that nobody wants to do, they are not fun and they are only there to increase there metrics (which tie into increasing shop sales - Basic mobile gaming 101). People complained that they wanted more secondary progression in WOD because we got no patches in WOD and people got bored. Secondary systems in my opinion will be the death of this game and i think there is strong evidence of players not liking all these systems in the last 3 expansions. Glyphs,gems,reforging i dont consider secondary systems like covernants or artifact weapons because there is no chore\grind behind them. inb4 somebody says "i really enjoyed spamming island expeditions, or i really enjoy doing the kortha dailies every day".
My point wasn't that they were expansion wide grinds, just that it's always been more than just plain old gear. We've had a bunch of other systems around it which made it not feel stale & repetitive. We didn't have "just gear" all the way up to MoP. We kept getting new talents & spells added to our classes every expansion. Obviously it's impossible to pin point a specific reason as to why, but subs were starting to drop quite a lot in Cataclysm.
Yes, patch cadence has been atrocious since Legion. I thought BFA was bad, but Shadowlands was even worse. That's definitely the number 1 thing they need to fix asap.
The tricky part is that they have to give us new stuff. In the past it was by giving us a bunch of talents & spells every xpac which allowed for gear to be the primary form of power gain, eventho we had smaller systems surrounding it like the ones I mentioned. However, if your class played the same from Vanilla > WoD and only your gear changed, don't you think you'd get bored of it? I know I would. The problem with this approach is that you get ability bloat and you inevitably have to prune the class or choose to not give them anything for the next xpacs. Which loops around to the original issue of a class/spec getting stale af if they go too long without getting new spells, talents or abilities to play with.
Nowadays it's through the modern borrowed power systems that they give us new spells, "talents" & abilities. Which we all know the downsides of.
Going from MOP to WOD and the pruning that happened was not due to secondary systems. The devs said that they wanted to simplify classes and put the difficulty in the content (raiding) rather than the class.
It's not due to secondary systems, I didn't say that it was. But with the old approach, they had to give us new abilities & spells in order for players to have new stuff to play with. I haven't played that many other MMOs, but even in FF14 they prune abilities and change them with new stuff.
Blizz should add new abilities and new things every expansion and then ever so often do a rework. Just like all other MMORPGS.
That is what they're doing with the borrowed power systems though. Every expansion is essentially like a mini-rework as your spec plays differently with the new borrowed power that gets added.
Secondary systems killed alts, they burn players out and they are designed so you have to log in every single day to do boring quests that nobody wants to do, they are not fun and they are only there to increase there metrics (which tie into increasing shop sales - Basic mobile gaming 101).
That's not an issue of secondary systems, that's an issue of implementation. Idc about the shop at all, but nothing you listed here is an issue of the systems, just the fact that Blizzard implements them poorly.
People complained that they wanted more secondary progression in WOD because we got no patches in WOD and people got bored. Secondary systems in my opinion will be the death of this game and i think there is strong evidence of players not liking all these systems in the last 3 expansions.
I think the majority of players have enjoyed the systems themselves, but there's been barriers that prevents players from enjoying them. Again, implementation issues that creates barriers. The legendaries in Legion were insanely fun to play with, the only issue was how you got them. Artifact weapons were really fun to play with, the only issue was how grindy it was and that it wasn't account-wide. Same with Essences & Corruptions. It's always problems surrounding the implementation and/or acquistion of said system.
Glyphs,gems,reforging i dont consider secondary systems like covernants or artifact weapons because there is no chore\grind behind them. inb4 somebody says "i really enjoyed spamming island expeditions, or i really enjoy doing the kortha dailies every day".
But they are by definition secondary systems. The only difference is that they were implemented in a good & player-friendly way compared to covenants, corruptions or artifact weps.
Lore wise this xpac and last is 100% the worse in terms of story.
However the argument on worse xpac i think still is between wod,Bfa,shadowlands. They are all bad for different reasons so depending on the person one of them will be worse than the other.
Wod was the first xpac where they started to dumb down classes and remove abilties. I remember it kinda sucked but the first month was good. Then the content draught happened.
I prefered wod over shadowlands and BFA just because the PVP was better and you didnt need to grind secondary systems and do dailies every single day in order to pvp and i think it was the same as raiding.
BFA\Shadowlands not only did we not get good content (story,class rework,abilities). But the daily timegated chore like grinds really ruined them for me and playing alts.
The last expansion that wasnโt dubbed โworst expansionโ when it was current was Legion. Wrath before that. But even for tbc and wotlk, at the time there were doomsayers talking about how they are ruining wow.
I really donโt think any of the bad stuff in shadowlands has topped everything Azerite related.
People fucking hated Legion when it launched. Legendaries were total RNG and made or broke your spec, drip fed content and an insane grind for artifact power.
This is something that I've read multiple times and I honestly think it's bullshit. The community loved wrath and rightfully so. I can't remember a single moment where anyone, or even myself, was unhappy with the expansion, not even when the LFG was introduced.
Public opinion liked it, I was there. The elites didnโt.
yakysak ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:48:26 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
A lot of the complaints were coming from the hardcore raiders of previous expansions. Welfare purples, 10 man raids, Naxx being extremely beginner friendly etc. Even the hardest of hardcore had stopped complaining after 3.1 though, Ulduar is still considered one of Blizzardโs finest raids.
Outside of the extremely loud minority, WoTLK was very well liked. People didnโt feel the need to rush to endgame because there was a lot of stuff to do and the zones were all very different and fun.
Jeb764 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:00:59 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
I donโt recall that at all and I was pretty hardcore during wrath.
Some people hated that Epics stopped being raid exclusive and were given out freely.
Some people hated that dungeon runs turned into aoe fest that made crowd control irrelevant.
Jeb764 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:16:23 on February 19, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
On one hand I understand the purples in heroic dungeons criticism, on the other hand it was only in heroic dungeons that specific purples dropped and it was only really relevant at the start of the expansion.
As for the the aoe dungeons run issue that was also something that only really applied towards the end of the expansion. When wrath first launched you def had to CC some mobs. Hell even the end dungeons in ice crown you had to use CC.
Dungeons in wrath were definitely a step towards accessibility since vanilla and TBC where dungeons were enormous and could take hours to complete. It's not necessarily a bad thing, of course. And as Tazavesh has shown, the nostalgia for "mega-dungeons" was basically just pure nostalgia.
I dont think this is a good argument because the people calling for "This expac is the worst expansion" are not the same people. The game has millions of players and people like different things so every xpac will be considered a bad xpac by somebody. However the best way to know if the xpac was bad is just looking at statistics like google trends\raiding\mplus clears.
Anuuket ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:15:45 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Fingers crossed for the next xpac. That's all I gotta say ๐
[deleted] ยท -16 points ยท Posted at 16:40:25 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
BFA is really weird because if we compare it to shadowlands everything was worse (opinion based) except for amount of content, but even with all the shortcomings somehow I had way more fun in BFA than SL
Sondrelk ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:28:00 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Don't forget how BfA is old content, and therefore not as easily being remembered for boring bits. Whereas SL is current, and therefore inescapable in a sense.
Once we are well into 10.0 it will be easier to more objectively compare BfA to SL.
Personally I find BfA worse because it had loads of stuff I really wanted, and still fucked it up. Whereas I had no hopes going into SL and generally thought it was a bad idea from the beginning, so there isnt really much to be disappointed by, at least compared to BfA.
Jaamaw ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:15:30 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
I compare everything to Legion, when WoW was in its, imho, prime.
Doom-1 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:59:29 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
I'm going to be brave, while BFA had many flaws.. it was still more fun than shadowlands and had way more content. And overall I think it was a better expansion.
Shadowlands has better class gameplay and balance I'll give it that.
But after 2 lackluster patches (I know 9.2 isn't out yet but let's be honest l, it's nothing groundbreaking)
The thing is. Shadowlands had the chance to be great if blizzard learned from the mistakes of bfa and listened to the players. Removing daily grinds.. allow us to multispec easily (azerite traits/covenant switching/free conduit switching)
Truth is while blizzard keeps their grinds to keep their players occupied on pointless shit and only give the players what the asked for when they have nothing left to add, wow isn't going to get a good expansion.
I started a month or two before SL and I honestly kind of loved BFA lol
I'm sure it's because I wasn't deep into the expac like most of you but I had so much fun. I loved the zones! The music! And boralus was such a cool city!!
I had a lot of fun in SL, too, though. I liked the dungeons more for sure. And the gearing. But definitely not the zones
The zones were always well regarded in bfa, the biggest complaint was all the systems ( heart of azeroth grind and azorite armor). The armor was particularly bad, imagine fully unlocking all the traits on your armor and then getting a new peice of armor and having to unlock those exact same traits again for the new peice. Yes it was bad.
they pretty much neutered the armor and heart grind by the end, and replaced it with essences and corruptions which I thought was fun atleast
As a PvPer I will take WoD over Shadowlands any fuckin day of the fuckin year.
I will always prefer to have nothing to do, and simply chose to do fun things (like PvP) than have too much shit I have to do and not enjoy. Shadowlands is the epitome of "Chores you have to do before you get to have fun".
Thank you for putting into words my feelings on the game these last few years. There's so much shit to do, and you need to do a lot of it to keep up, but so much of it is just tedious and grindy.
Athrasie ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:45:09 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Wod content was dope as fuck, there just wasnโt enough of it and they gave up on the expansion midway through. They shouldโve stuck with having Grom as an end boss and adding Farahlon. That said, what we got was all very good (barring the draenor is free quote).
axialage ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:10:33 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
The PVP was fun and Blackrock Foundry was an S+ tier raid.
It had great class design and good end game content. In that same way what does shadowlands have over wod?
Sondrelk ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:35:58 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Actual stuff to do and gather.
WoD had an extremely anemic endgame questline. SL had 4 reasonably chunky endgame questline with actual rewards.
WoD had dungeons, SL has dungeons with M+.
WoD had a rare that dropped a mount per zone. SL has several, including 8 covenant specific ones for each covenant.
WoD had a gearcthpe neutral, and a gear type specific cosmetic set to gather from your garrison. SL had a cosmetic set for each gear type x4 for each covenant, with 4 tints each with unique mechanics for gathering each one.
WoD has the quality that if you want to raid and absolutely nothing else it's easier. If you actually want to play the game outside waiting for the raid to reset then it was horrid.
SL might have some boring stuff to get through if you want to get into raiding properly, but at least you have a game outside raids and PvP.
Better designed raids and dungeons? M+? Literally better end game content. Both of these expansions experienced content droughts and theres still 10x more shit to do in slands than wod, thats how little content there was
I can tell you are a casual raider. Slg was one of the worst designed mythic bosses ever created and fights like council had terrible spell queueing. Sure sire and sludgefist were good but thatโs nothing compared to blackrock foundry. And sanctum is just a poor raid overall
Lol Sanctum of domination is poor raid overall? Im a casual raider but you are not doing a good job of portraying yourself as a mythic raider by any means with the type of shit youโre saying
If you donโt have the experience as a mythic raider you wonโt understand why some of these fights are really poor for mythic fights. The difficulty of sanctum was far to easy for the majority of the fights excluding 2. And sylvanas was just a long slog. There werenโt any really memorable fights in the raid besides painsmith.
Call_of_Putis ยท 60 points ยท Posted at 22:12:54 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Worst Villain yeah but also the best Nipples in the Game.
DrunkenlySober ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:55:25 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Heโd win Mr Olympian for sure
Startled_pancake ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 17:46:08 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
WHOA! MANY OFFENDED. NEED THOSE TO BE REPLACED WITH FRUIT BASKETS!!
Rambo_One2 ยท 44 points ยท Posted at 22:56:29 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Jokes aside, wasn't it hard to find footage of this guy? Feels like he has had a total of like 3 minutes of screen time throughout the expansion...
๐๏ธ MKUltraZoomer ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 23:21:18 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)*
honestly, it wasn't easy. dude shows up pretty infrequently.
Runswithshortshorts ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 00:48:49 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Delightful shitpost, well done!
Waterfly91 ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 18:26:40 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
laughed my ass out, thanks dude
Riatla_ ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 21:02:05 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Wow thats cursed good job
UMCorian ยท 34 points ยท Posted at 22:51:53 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Worst villain of the worst expansion.
Can't even argue at this point.
They *somehow* managed to get beneath BFA.
Crockpottins ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 00:20:33 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
I miss legion.
WooBlixky ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:27:09 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
I miss Cata
Darkhallows27 ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 00:35:24 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
BFA had stuff I actually liked. Plus we got like, Zandalari and stuff. Meanwhile, this trashโฆ
Azsolus ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:00:11 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Siege of Zuldazzar was awesome
whatisthisgunifound ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 04:06:19 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
BFA was pretty competent in retrospect, sure it had issues and the systems were janked but the lore was pretty awesome and the zones and raids were all pretty fun to be in. Compare that to now and let's be honest, even WoD had more satisfying content than shadowblands. The lore is a mess with zero production value, both end game zones so far have been just downright hostile to be in. the maw was huge and actually pretty cool in terms of visuals and lore but outright told you to get the fuck out until korthia made it irrelevant and just replaced it with a tiny bland island with some ruins that somehow feels more run down and depressing than detroit. The gear is ugly besides the covenants that will probably not fit your class fantasy (I mean for real Kyrian rogues?). The systems become irrelevant or trivial to minmax within a patch (rip venari, soulbinds and shards), mythic plus has been the same dungeons ever since launch, the main hub is essentially an empty airport, the raids are admittedly great as always, shame we only get 3. Am I missing anything?
I'm not sure how but blizzard managed to make a world that runs on souls feel entirely soulless.
Compare all that to the sheer production value of BFA. The zones felt lived in, the characters were compelling (by mmo standards), the gameplay had things to be desired, the systems were entirely alt-hostile and I'll never forgive how they did my boy n'zoth dirty but at least there was some merit to bfa.
Shadowlands feels entirely bereft of merit and I cannot wait to be done with it. Hopefully this last patch offers enough of a decent send-off as not to leave a sour taste in our collective mouths and blizz can get back on track with an expac in azeroth. Who knows? Maybe this was just a fluke of pandemic schedule chaos and that whole scandal and worker walkout.
gaylordpl ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 07:54:33 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
BFA was awful
Benkenobix ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 10:18:12 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
It was not. BfA was an utter disaster in almost every single way possible.
Balalenzon ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 13:12:15 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Time gilds all memories. People hated Mists at the time, but now it's remembered as one of the best expansions. People have started to talk about WoD fondly. And now this. in 2025 people will make posts saying "Shadowlands wasn't THAT bad, the zones were good and the leveling was great" and so the wheel of "Current expansion bad, last expansion good" will forever keep turning.
UMCorian ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:08:15 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
People hated Mists for like the first patch. After 5.2, things turned around and into Timeless Isle, while of course there was negative feedback, the general feel seemed to be: This is fine.
cruffade ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:18:58 on February 19, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Some people say that already now though. In 2025 they just have less active opposition. People who liked BFA during BFA are most likely the ones defending it now, not the ones who hated it.
Lilivati_fish ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:30:48 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
It blows my mind how much people love Mists now... I still think it's one of the worst and is definitely the point I drastically lost interest in the game. I just get nostalgic every now and again and pick it up.
KingOfTheGutter ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 05:27:01 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
BFA was terrible. Shadowlands being bad doesnโt make BFA better.
whoeve ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:44:10 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
The best part is you paid hundreds of dollars for it all.
whatisthisgunifound ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:40:06 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Don't remind me...
Deminovia ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:07:14 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
I personally think Shadowlands had (slightly) better endgame with covenants
Though BfA leveling zones (not the dumb leveling scaling that made you weaker though fuck that shit), questing and map design is far far superior to anything Shadowlands has put out.
The likes of Boralus and Drustvar is so much better than Oribos and Ardenweald
Pinless89 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 09:01:39 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
I've said it before and i'll keep saying it. BFA was a genuinely fun expansion despite it flaws. Patch 8.2 & 8.3 were some of the best & most fun patches we've had in wow, eventho corruptions sucked pre vendor.
BootlegSauce ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:21:41 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)*
I dont think most people agree with you, They dumbed down classes, didnt rework any of them, didnt add any new abilities. Didnt add any new classes. (got races instead). Azerite grind was terrible, PVP grind was terrible (pve gear in pvp), story was terrible.
The only good thing about BFA was patch 8.2 even though everything else was bad. In my opinion BFA is just a different kind of bad than shadowlands but its still bad for a game that has millions and millions of dollars in investment over 20 years. We should be expecting more.
I remember the devs talking to somebody on a live stream on the beta at blizzcon and hotted was like "I really miss full moon on balance druid will it come back". The dev was so confused that he missed the ability, it was so strange to see a dev so disconnected.
Pinless89 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:18:00 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Obviously the game could've been much better, like I mentioned it had a lot of flaws. I can only speak for myself, but the game was still really fun despite the flaws.
Essences & Corruptions were some of the most fun power systems to play with. 8.3 m+ was also one of the very best seasons we've ever had
BootlegSauce ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:43:45 on February 19, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
I might just be an old school player, but my favorite power systems is just gear. for 10 years players just wanted new raids new content. We didnt need long patches with secondary power systems like artifact, covernant, essences etc.
I personally think secondary power systems was a mistake, i know blizz wanted to add them to increase chores\character progression but it just ended up burning players out/removing alts from the game for most people/ confusing people. I hate secondary systems and i hope they remove them completely next patch. We dont need cool abilities to be gated behind artifact or any other chore like grind. Its all just metric system designs to get people to log in every single day\week even when they dont want to play.
Pinless89 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:16:32 on February 19, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
It's always been more complicated than just plain old gear though. Things like sockets, meta gems, glyphs, reforging, legendary items like MoP cloak, sha-touched gems, powerful enchants, profession bonuses etc.
It's kind of a tricky situation though. If they just give us plain old gear with nothing new it gets stale. If they keep adding spells we'll end up with serious bloat, ability bloat was a big complaint in MoP which was before they started pruning. Borrowed power also gives more creative freedom in a sense. No need to worry about how a certain spell would affect things down the line if it's really powerful. The downside ofc is that if you have something powerful that is really fun, you'll eventually lose it.
What's worse? Playing with your class for close to a decade and then have a bunch of spells & abilities pruned from your class? Or having expansion based systems that you know will get pruned eventually? The first situation happened in MoP and I remember how awful it felt going from MoP to the WoD prepatch with how my class felt. I've also experienced the expansion based systems of Legion, BFA & currently SL.
Honestly it's an increadily difficult situation and I don't know if there is a correct answer here. Idk which one is worse option out of the two.
I agree with your other points though. I hate how there are so many chores you have to do everyday to keep up nowadays. I also hate how things aren't account-wide and alt friendly.
BootlegSauce ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:25:53 on February 19, 2022 ยท (Permalink)*
I dont agree, Gems, Glyphs,reforging was never a long expansion wide grind with dailies and chores it was all instant. The only thing you brought up that was valid was Legendary Mop cloak. Even Sha_touched gems you didnt need to grind dailies or secondary systems fore it all came from the content you did (raiding) from memory?
You say "its a tricky situation". But i dont agree, people played for 10 years and didnt get bored. You say if they only give us gear is gets stale? Well people where quite happy all the way up to MOP with no artifact like secondary system grind. You say it would get stale but i argue the reason the game gets stale is because gear sets need more interesting tier sets and they need to release content on a faster cadence.
Going from MOP to WOD and the pruning that happened was not due to secondary systems. The devs said that they wanted to simplify classes and put the difficulty in the content (raiding) rather than the class. Blizz should add new abilities and new things every expansion and then ever so often do a rework. Just like all other MMORPGS.
tldr-
Secondary systems killed alts, they burn players out and they are designed so you have to log in every single day to do boring quests that nobody wants to do, they are not fun and they are only there to increase there metrics (which tie into increasing shop sales - Basic mobile gaming 101). People complained that they wanted more secondary progression in WOD because we got no patches in WOD and people got bored. Secondary systems in my opinion will be the death of this game and i think there is strong evidence of players not liking all these systems in the last 3 expansions. Glyphs,gems,reforging i dont consider secondary systems like covernants or artifact weapons because there is no chore\grind behind them. inb4 somebody says "i really enjoyed spamming island expeditions, or i really enjoy doing the kortha dailies every day".
Pinless89 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:29:25 on February 20, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
My point wasn't that they were expansion wide grinds, just that it's always been more than just plain old gear. We've had a bunch of other systems around it which made it not feel stale & repetitive. We didn't have "just gear" all the way up to MoP. We kept getting new talents & spells added to our classes every expansion. Obviously it's impossible to pin point a specific reason as to why, but subs were starting to drop quite a lot in Cataclysm.
Yes, patch cadence has been atrocious since Legion. I thought BFA was bad, but Shadowlands was even worse. That's definitely the number 1 thing they need to fix asap.
The tricky part is that they have to give us new stuff. In the past it was by giving us a bunch of talents & spells every xpac which allowed for gear to be the primary form of power gain, eventho we had smaller systems surrounding it like the ones I mentioned. However, if your class played the same from Vanilla > WoD and only your gear changed, don't you think you'd get bored of it? I know I would. The problem with this approach is that you get ability bloat and you inevitably have to prune the class or choose to not give them anything for the next xpacs. Which loops around to the original issue of a class/spec getting stale af if they go too long without getting new spells, talents or abilities to play with.
Nowadays it's through the modern borrowed power systems that they give us new spells, "talents" & abilities. Which we all know the downsides of.
It's not due to secondary systems, I didn't say that it was. But with the old approach, they had to give us new abilities & spells in order for players to have new stuff to play with. I haven't played that many other MMOs, but even in FF14 they prune abilities and change them with new stuff.
That is what they're doing with the borrowed power systems though. Every expansion is essentially like a mini-rework as your spec plays differently with the new borrowed power that gets added.
That's not an issue of secondary systems, that's an issue of implementation. Idc about the shop at all, but nothing you listed here is an issue of the systems, just the fact that Blizzard implements them poorly.
I think the majority of players have enjoyed the systems themselves, but there's been barriers that prevents players from enjoying them. Again, implementation issues that creates barriers. The legendaries in Legion were insanely fun to play with, the only issue was how you got them. Artifact weapons were really fun to play with, the only issue was how grindy it was and that it wasn't account-wide. Same with Essences & Corruptions. It's always problems surrounding the implementation and/or acquistion of said system.
But they are by definition secondary systems. The only difference is that they were implemented in a good & player-friendly way compared to covenants, corruptions or artifact weps.
supdudessss ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:35:15 on February 22, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
BFA wasn't fun
Pinless89 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:10:58 on February 22, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
It was.
Bgrum ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 05:12:23 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
I hated BFA, but I played all the patches consistently..
SL I quit about 2 weeks into 9.1, which in all the years I've played wow , I've taken breaks, but I've never unsubbed/uninstalled like I did with SL.
Makes me wonder though, is that because SL was that bad , or was I already burnt out on BFA and this was the straw that broke the camels back.
filth_horror_glamor ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:24:43 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Bfa story was amazing. People just hated azerite armor and corruption gearing systems
VisionImpaired ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 22:07:20 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
I am so lost on current lore lol.
filth_horror_glamor ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:24:00 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Jailer bad
pinkpajamas2 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:49:51 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
I just came back after a long break and I too, am lost.
Random_Ragnaros ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:42:10 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
From what I gather, it's probably better to stay that way.
Khartelier ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 21:49:21 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
I love it.
BootlegSauce ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:28:09 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Lore wise this xpac and last is 100% the worse in terms of story.
However the argument on worse xpac i think still is between wod,Bfa,shadowlands. They are all bad for different reasons so depending on the person one of them will be worse than the other.
๐๏ธ MKUltraZoomer ยท 34 points ยท Posted at 16:03:45 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
a true villain kills not only the protagonist, but also the career of his author
Youtube link for anyone who cares
AccomplishedWaltz263 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:00:11 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
I do care.
Kalcour ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 03:15:07 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
You put more effort into the Jailer than Blizzard did.
Etwas789 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 09:20:22 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
"worst expansion" totally forgetting wod i assume? as someone that is casual and doesnt raid, shadowlands is MILES ahaead of wod
bobrock1982 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 09:44:30 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Have to disagree. Didnt like WoD but SL is just absolute garbage.
whatisthisgunifound ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:29:56 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
WoD had no content but what was there was actually pretty good. Can't say the same for shadowlands
BootlegSauce ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:25:04 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Wod was the first xpac where they started to dumb down classes and remove abilties. I remember it kinda sucked but the first month was good. Then the content draught happened.
I prefered wod over shadowlands and BFA just because the PVP was better and you didnt need to grind secondary systems and do dailies every single day in order to pvp and i think it was the same as raiding.
BFA\Shadowlands not only did we not get good content (story,class rework,abilities). But the daily timegated chore like grinds really ruined them for me and playing alts.
Benkenobix ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 10:23:23 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Both BfA and Shadowlands are significantly worse than WoD. It's not even close.
Inevitable-Row1977 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:31:13 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
At this point, i wish i was still chilling in my garrison.
Kyral210 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 06:29:46 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
WOD was worse
Just-Ad-5972 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:11:04 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
The last expansion that wasnโt dubbed โworst expansionโ when it was current was Legion. Wrath before that. But even for tbc and wotlk, at the time there were doomsayers talking about how they are ruining wow.
I really donโt think any of the bad stuff in shadowlands has topped everything Azerite related.
SkwiddyCs ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 03:02:30 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
This is just blatantly wrong
People fucking hated Legion when it launched. Legendaries were total RNG and made or broke your spec, drip fed content and an insane grind for artifact power.
Benkenobix ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:22:30 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
I don't get the Legion fanbase as well. People hated the expansion and I've seen nothing but complaints.
Just-Ad-5972 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 05:44:29 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Hating an expansion for one patch isnโt the same as calling it the โworstโ throughout its lifespan
SkwiddyCs ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:56:32 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Legion was widely disliked up until its final patch. No one was pleased with the Karazhan patch.
unonameless ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:58:43 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Are you kidding me? Wrath was not well-liked when it was current. People thought it dumbed down wow, especially dungeons with LFD tool.
Benkenobix ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 10:20:35 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
This is something that I've read multiple times and I honestly think it's bullshit. The community loved wrath and rightfully so. I can't remember a single moment where anyone, or even myself, was unhappy with the expansion, not even when the LFG was introduced.
Just-Ad-5972 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 05:43:30 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Public opinion liked it, I was there. The elites didnโt.
yakysak ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:48:26 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
A lot of the complaints were coming from the hardcore raiders of previous expansions. Welfare purples, 10 man raids, Naxx being extremely beginner friendly etc. Even the hardest of hardcore had stopped complaining after 3.1 though, Ulduar is still considered one of Blizzardโs finest raids.
Outside of the extremely loud minority, WoTLK was very well liked. People didnโt feel the need to rush to endgame because there was a lot of stuff to do and the zones were all very different and fun.
Jeb764 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:00:59 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
I donโt recall that at all and I was pretty hardcore during wrath.
unonameless ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:30:51 on February 19, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Some people hated that Epics stopped being raid exclusive and were given out freely.
Some people hated that dungeon runs turned into aoe fest that made crowd control irrelevant.
Jeb764 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:16:23 on February 19, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
On one hand I understand the purples in heroic dungeons criticism, on the other hand it was only in heroic dungeons that specific purples dropped and it was only really relevant at the start of the expansion.
As for the the aoe dungeons run issue that was also something that only really applied towards the end of the expansion. When wrath first launched you def had to CC some mobs. Hell even the end dungeons in ice crown you had to use CC.
unonameless ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:22:14 on February 19, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Dungeons in wrath were definitely a step towards accessibility since vanilla and TBC where dungeons were enormous and could take hours to complete. It's not necessarily a bad thing, of course. And as Tazavesh has shown, the nostalgia for "mega-dungeons" was basically just pure nostalgia.
BootlegSauce ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:26:08 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
I dont think this is a good argument because the people calling for "This expac is the worst expansion" are not the same people. The game has millions of players and people like different things so every xpac will be considered a bad xpac by somebody. However the best way to know if the xpac was bad is just looking at statistics like google trends\raiding\mplus clears.
Anuuket ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:15:45 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Fingers crossed for the next xpac. That's all I gotta say ๐
[deleted] ยท -16 points ยท Posted at 16:40:25 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
lastdeathwish ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 17:09:40 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Worst villian, yeah definitely. Worst expansion? I don't know if this guy raided uldir but jesus that shit sucked
awoocow ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 17:35:15 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Xpacs arenโt only about raids Jfc
Jaamaw ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 19:39:30 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
BFA was for sure the fucking worst.
_reptilian_ ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 20:09:07 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
BFA is really weird because if we compare it to shadowlands everything was worse (opinion based) except for amount of content, but even with all the shortcomings somehow I had way more fun in BFA than SL
Sondrelk ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:28:00 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Don't forget how BfA is old content, and therefore not as easily being remembered for boring bits. Whereas SL is current, and therefore inescapable in a sense.
Once we are well into 10.0 it will be easier to more objectively compare BfA to SL.
Personally I find BfA worse because it had loads of stuff I really wanted, and still fucked it up. Whereas I had no hopes going into SL and generally thought it was a bad idea from the beginning, so there isnt really much to be disappointed by, at least compared to BfA.
Jaamaw ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:15:30 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
I compare everything to Legion, when WoW was in its, imho, prime.
Doom-1 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:59:29 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
I'm going to be brave, while BFA had many flaws.. it was still more fun than shadowlands and had way more content. And overall I think it was a better expansion.
Shadowlands has better class gameplay and balance I'll give it that.
But after 2 lackluster patches (I know 9.2 isn't out yet but let's be honest l, it's nothing groundbreaking)
The thing is. Shadowlands had the chance to be great if blizzard learned from the mistakes of bfa and listened to the players. Removing daily grinds.. allow us to multispec easily (azerite traits/covenant switching/free conduit switching)
Truth is while blizzard keeps their grinds to keep their players occupied on pointless shit and only give the players what the asked for when they have nothing left to add, wow isn't going to get a good expansion.
Have fun grinding rep.
Rip shadowlands, you could have been great.
coolerbrown ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:02:50 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
I started a month or two before SL and I honestly kind of loved BFA lol
I'm sure it's because I wasn't deep into the expac like most of you but I had so much fun. I loved the zones! The music! And boralus was such a cool city!!
I had a lot of fun in SL, too, though. I liked the dungeons more for sure. And the gearing. But definitely not the zones
porkyboy11 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:52:57 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
The zones were always well regarded in bfa, the biggest complaint was all the systems ( heart of azeroth grind and azorite armor). The armor was particularly bad, imagine fully unlocking all the traits on your armor and then getting a new peice of armor and having to unlock those exact same traits again for the new peice. Yes it was bad.
they pretty much neutered the armor and heart grind by the end, and replaced it with essences and corruptions which I thought was fun atleast
lastdeathwish ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 17:48:21 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah everything else sucked too especially after legion
kingdroxie ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:06:36 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
oh you poor thing
FlockOfBacon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:19:46 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
It's almost as if these things are subjective!
MoreNoise11 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:30:54 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Tell that to this sub.
albagul ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:24:44 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
He's an exceptionally boring villain.
Ashix_Borden ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 18:01:51 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Did you play WoD?
ClassicKrova ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 18:53:23 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
As a PvPer I will take WoD over Shadowlands any fuckin day of the fuckin year.
I will always prefer to have nothing to do, and simply chose to do fun things (like PvP) than have too much shit I have to do and not enjoy. Shadowlands is the epitome of "Chores you have to do before you get to have fun".
Sword_n_board ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 19:24:38 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you for putting into words my feelings on the game these last few years. There's so much shit to do, and you need to do a lot of it to keep up, but so much of it is just tedious and grindy.
Athrasie ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:45:09 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Wod content was dope as fuck, there just wasnโt enough of it and they gave up on the expansion midway through. They shouldโve stuck with having Grom as an end boss and adding Farahlon. That said, what we got was all very good (barring the draenor is free quote).
axialage ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:10:33 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
The PVP was fun and Blackrock Foundry was an S+ tier raid.
Darkhallows27 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:39:20 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
WoD was great from a class perspective and Foundry was amazing. WoD didnโt overload me with bullshit
peenegobb ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:42:00 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Ya itโs the reason I still play this game.
fingerpaintswithpoop ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:09:07 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Worst expansion is still BfA IMO.
RazzerX ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 18:06:30 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
WoD will always be the worst expansion for me
joemoffett12 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:24:27 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Wod had the same amount of raids as shadowlands and they were all stellar. Wod stomps shadowlands.
WillNotForgetMyUser ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 19:02:03 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Okay lol? What else did wod have? An entire patch dedicated to twitter and selfie camera, nice
Wod had good pvp that was it, it stomped nothing
joemoffett12 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:03:12 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
It had great class design and good end game content. In that same way what does shadowlands have over wod?
Sondrelk ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:35:58 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Actual stuff to do and gather.
WoD had an extremely anemic endgame questline. SL had 4 reasonably chunky endgame questline with actual rewards.
WoD had dungeons, SL has dungeons with M+.
WoD had a rare that dropped a mount per zone. SL has several, including 8 covenant specific ones for each covenant.
WoD had a gearcthpe neutral, and a gear type specific cosmetic set to gather from your garrison. SL had a cosmetic set for each gear type x4 for each covenant, with 4 tints each with unique mechanics for gathering each one.
WoD has the quality that if you want to raid and absolutely nothing else it's easier. If you actually want to play the game outside waiting for the raid to reset then it was horrid.
SL might have some boring stuff to get through if you want to get into raiding properly, but at least you have a game outside raids and PvP.
WillNotForgetMyUser ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:53:05 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Better designed raids and dungeons? M+? Literally better end game content. Both of these expansions experienced content droughts and theres still 10x more shit to do in slands than wod, thats how little content there was
joemoffett12 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:53:56 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Stopped reading at better designed raids. You are delusional if you think that is the case
WillNotForgetMyUser ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:56:43 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Unfortunate for you cause castle nathria alone blows the backs out on all of wods raid๐คทโโ๏ธ
joemoffett12 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:58:56 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
I can tell you are a casual raider. Slg was one of the worst designed mythic bosses ever created and fights like council had terrible spell queueing. Sure sire and sludgefist were good but thatโs nothing compared to blackrock foundry. And sanctum is just a poor raid overall
WillNotForgetMyUser ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:09:01 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Lol Sanctum of domination is poor raid overall? Im a casual raider but you are not doing a good job of portraying yourself as a mythic raider by any means with the type of shit youโre saying
joemoffett12 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:13:09 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
If you donโt have the experience as a mythic raider you wonโt understand why some of these fights are really poor for mythic fights. The difficulty of sanctum was far to easy for the majority of the fights excluding 2. And sylvanas was just a long slog. There werenโt any really memorable fights in the raid besides painsmith.
WillNotForgetMyUser ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:25:30 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Fair enough, i donโt have the mythic experience
UMCorian ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 22:59:28 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
No rose tints for me, WoD was bad...
But BFA was next level bad.
And Shadowlands was: "Oh honey. You thought you knew what bad was? Hold my freaking beer."
WillNotForgetMyUser ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 18:57:57 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Shadowlands still wayyyyy better than BFA and itโs not even close
AbrocomaPractical300 ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 18:52:13 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Is it worst expansion? :D Did you played WoD? Or BfA? :D
TheBiddyDiddler ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 01:43:07 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
I thought BfA was the worst expac?
Akutist ยท -13 points ยท Posted at 17:08:09 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah you definitely didnโt play BFA then
Satans-Dirty-Hoe ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 17:15:28 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
I heard BFA was terrible too.
shadowlands at least has better characters and dungeons than BFA (although Plaguefall makes me want to slam my face into the keyboard)
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:10:00 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
"better characters"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
*breathes in*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Satans-Dirty-Hoe ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:21:17 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)*
this is opinionated, you dont need to agree. im pretty new to WoW lore n stuff so this may not apply to you.
no need to laugh and be a dick though.
KreaFFXIV ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 19:11:04 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
when you say funny things expect to get laughs :)
WarChefGarrosh ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 19:36:23 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
You spelled best wrong
bamboo-y ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:19:50 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
I always thought he was cute tbh
econihilist ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:46:51 on February 19, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
This is honestly comedy gold, thank u bery much op
vforvaffanculo ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 19:33:34 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Bfa worst exp no cap
n8dawgregul8 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 23:04:28 on February 17, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Hilarious! Laughed immediately, good job!
itsmyfakeone ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:28:28 on February 18, 2022 ยท (Permalink)
Nothing is more frightening than a baby blue color scheme