McKnotz ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 10:15:50 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah They changed the lore of doomhammer in WoD and comic strip I believe.
Tubzilla ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:02:56 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Blizzard changing the lore at random? That's never happened before!
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 11:01:08 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
FREE COMIC BOOK WOOO
trilobot ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 10:37:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Geologist here. If you look up close that hammer is uniformly grey. It's gotta be quartzite (limestone or even the famous Wallace sandstone would be just too soft).
[deleted] ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 04:43:45 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
cronatos ยท 43 points ยท Posted at 06:10:26 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Ya know, I'm not disappointed at all. I love that the ultimate Orcish (not corrupt) weapon is a just a simple piece of killer utensil. Doomhammer just does work.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:25:18 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
well therent arent very many ultimate weapons like the ashbringer, theres that lame orc wooden axe cenarius made but.... ashbringer> that piece of driftwood. And even then ashbringer is the ultimate weapon against undead and demons holy light ftw.
The axe that slayed thousands of demons? The axe that met the might of the Burning Legion and held it back? The only weapon that has managed to hurt Sargeras, the Dark Titan, The Demon Lord, The Great Enemy of All Life, the axe that cut into his leg is lame? Don't disrespect the Axe of Cenarius and don't disrespect Broxigar the Red. Ashbringer is good and so is the Axe of Cenarius.
eh i guess im just an orc hater, blizzard making an orc an elvish hero i think is just messed up. It should have been a nightelf wielding any weapon of cenarius not an orc. especially since the orcs killed cenarius, just a low blow to night elfs, malfurion or tyrande could have killed millions with a weapon created by a demigod. Death to the invading orcs upon night elf lands !
draekia ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 07:14:25 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Thrall may very well have imbued it or something. It's all speculation until we know for sure, of course.
Drinking mine right now, actually. People kinda taste like cake batter.
shoseki ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 07:54:34 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Purple. Soylent green is purple.
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 02:15:43 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Did they make it official with legion leak that Ashbringer is naaru?
To my knowledge it's been a big rumor but not represented as official lore.
Endurlay ยท 45 points ยท Posted at 04:59:06 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's not really JUST a rumor; it's been hinted at in game in the Durnholde Keep instance, and pretty reasonably explored in the Ashbringer comic, where we see Mograine claim the darkened shard from an Orc Warlock.
In addition, the in game model for the darkened shard, and the fragment of Mu'ru in Sunwell are the same.
At this point it's one of those plot points that's pretty universally accepted because of the existing evidence, but has never been explicitly confirmed by Blizzard. It would seem really weird if they stated the the core material of Ashbringer was something else.
TBC also established that Naaru can be twisted into darkness or pure void energy. And a dev confirmed that Naaru could be returned to the Light with enough hope and Light, but still extremely rare. So if Ashbringer is just a piece of a Naaru, then it would make the purification scene make sense. Since they're living in some way, reverting the crystal would make it stay that way.
Also, with WoD, the Void Star was a Naaru. So therefore it's probably the source of the crystal that became Ashbringer in our timeline.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:12:10 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If that were the case then its funny because its a sort of a full circle kind of thing. Ner'zul was trying to use the Naaru that was made into the weapon that helped kill him in our timeline.
draekia ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 07:15:48 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I read on one of the lore guides that one of the lead writers confirmed it as a dead Nauru. Whatever that's worth.
McKnotz ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 10:17:59 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Darkened shard and nerzul storyline I see where they going with that now.
Yeah, I used to be okay with that too. The first two trilogies were very good, and several other books early on.
Then a bit after Wrath came out, they did the Arthas book, which read like it was for teens or kids. After that, I previewed some before I bought and found similar stuff.
I dunno if they're all that way, I stopped buying them when they went "easier to access." Kinda like the game did, I guess.
Conflux ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:53:40 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well I don't think easier access is a bad thing, as long as its done right. Everyone should be able to see content and not have to learn a convoluted rotation to play and have fun.
Then a bit after Wrath came out, they did the Arthas book, which read like it was for teens or kids. After that, I previewed some before I bought and found similar stuff.
I mean so was Harry Potter and it took the world by storm. I can understand not liking a writer, but only because something is an easier read then say The Autobiography of an Ex-Colored Man, doesn't make it bad.
Also I don't think comics are "easier to access". A lot of comics can have some crazy in depth stories like Maus, Watchmen, Invisibles, Etc.
I think you misunderstood my use of the word "access." That's the word that Blizz PR might use to describe their transition from normal novels to other medium, which I was using sarcastically.
In reality, the move was dumbing down content. Better for a younger demographic in the case of the books, and a different demo in the case of comics.
Both of which, ironically, make it much less interesting and "accessible" to any person in their 30s who has following Warcraft lore since before WoW.
edit: I also must say, in the case of Arthas, dumbing it down to "Young Adult" level did make it bad. I do not like plot spoon-fed or being beat over the head with a twist to make sure no one gets lost. They took away a lot of the interesting story ability and hooks with that move.
Conflux ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:24:05 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
In reality, the move was dumbing down content.
Yes they decreased the difficulty of content, but gave a separate set of challenges and rewards for players doing harder content in Hard modes and Mythics.
Accessibility is a massive thing in the game industry right now. If your game isnโt accessible its going to be hard for people to enjoy it. Big players like Valve and Riot have done many steps to make sure their crazy complex games are more accessible. Creating normal mode and LFR was not a good move. I think they could use tuning, but it was a good move.
Both of which, ironically, make it much less interesting and "accessible" to any person in their 30s who has following Warcraft lore since before WoW.
As someone who too has been following Warcraft since before WoW, I see no problem with making the stories and lore more accessible. The ancient war, dragon soul and the third war have parts that are just not important to the lore and all and make it convoluted and dumb. I really donโt mind when the medium is brought to a younger audience as it clears up a lot of lore.
The Emperor Shaohao and Warlords stories were simple and told magnificently in my opinion.
You seem more upset with the fact that the story is being told in a way that younger fans can follow along and still entertain and excite older audiences. There is no problem with this. There are tons of great shows that do this like Steven Universe, The Legend of Korra, and Gravity Falls are just a few to name.
Its not the style of writing persay, but the writing/writer that may have been unenjoyable for you with Arthas.
Yeah, I know accessibility is important. Blizzard is hardly the first company to make missteps with it and frustrate the playerbase that made them huge in the first place.
You seem more upset with the fact that the story is being told in a way that younger fans can follow along and still entertain and excite older audiences.
If that's what they'd done, I'd be fine with it. They didn't.
Its not the style of writing persay, but the writing/writer that may have been unenjoyable for you with Arthas.
No. There have been several examples since then that did the same thing. You're just not listening to me, instead trying to apply your own interpretation.
The styles aren't simply a matter of using smaller words or removing gratuitous violence or sex. It's a fundamental change in the way that details of a story are given. It's frustrating and a major turnoff in their case.
Look, Star Wars and Trek have both had TONS of books written in both styles. Plenty of books for teens are amazing (Harry Potter, Ender's Game, Redwall) and written very well. It can be done, but WoW books have not pulled off this trick.
Conflux ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:57:30 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm totally reading what you're saying, but your moving the goal post every time I go to talk about it.
First was you'd didn't like the accessibility, then you said it wasn't accessibility, but the writing (which is what I said). So I'll just ask what "details" were left out of Arthas, because they gave us a ton of things that didn't exist before like Varian and Arthas being friends and Arthas' mom and covered even the most pointless of things like the love triangle between Jaina, Arthas and kaelthas. Or was it the delivery of these details?
I think he means that because the book reads like it was written for a potato. I think you knew that to but you're just white knighting the shit out of the books. But hey man, if you enjoy reading shit that isn't clever "Arthas" go for it man. But don't compare the clever wit of JK Rowling with Christie Golden...that broad cant hold a candle to JK man...Christie writes like shes fucking mentally deficient.
Conflux ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:14:17 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I think you knew that to but you're just white knighting the shit out of the books.
Actually I didn't know that because he started off saying he didn't like how comics were canon in lore, then said something dumb about it being written for kids, and when I asked what the problem with that was he finally then said something about the writing leaving out major details.
It wasn't me white knighting it was someone getting called out for having a poorly express opinion and not being able to communicate it. No where did I defend Golden or Arthas. I did say that the newer books make the lore more accessible than before.
I asked for him to clarify and not hide behind buzzwords that 3edgy. But seems like you're right up his alley too.
Its also linked in the way the BE pally describes the new sunwell after its made and Morgrains description of the power of the uncourupted sword being nearly the same with just different wording.
MrTastix ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:01:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Makes sense given the crystal they found was described as being the "living embodiment of shadow" and when cleansed it pretty much has power on really comparable to the Naaru.
I don't think they need to confirm it though. Not everything needs an explanation.
no its not canon, blizzard hasnt said anything, plus they just show one guy trying to destroy it but , then they find out it sucks in the light, And then they are like.... let see if we can purify it. which they do, there is no mention of naaru's.
Dimnos ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 08:55:40 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It doesn't take much effort to put two and two together when looking at a crystal of shadow energy that absorbs the light, which goes on to become the most powerful weapon against the undead, reducing them to ash. It hasn't been confirmed because it doesn't need to be.
Old Hillsbrad was added in TBC when the Naaru became a major focus, the introduction of the very origins of The Light. Big floating crystal beings that radiate with the Light and is later revealed can equally absorb and radiate with shadow with M'uru. This scene wasn't thrown in to Old Hillsbrad for shits and giggles. It was placed there so players can make the connection between the crystal artefact that absorbs both light and shadow and the Naaru, big floating crystals that absorb light and shadow.
It's just a matter of not being explicitly stated, but I think your point of it being intuitive holds true enough. I think that one of the other things that is a bit confusing is that it was stated that any form of magic could change the flow of the crystals attunement. Naaru don't suddenly becoming frosty mages if hit with an ice lance, but it certainly was described in such a way that this crystal would absorb and become any form of magic. At least from what I recall.
Where the fuck is this? I've done that dungeon more times than I can recall and probably wouldn't want to admit anyway, and I don't ever recall seeing that.
Inside the Southshore inn, which there's not any reason to go near for the purposes of the dungeon. There's actually several recognizable NPCs there, including young Blanchy and non-lich Kel Thuzad.
You could just assume that, storywise, you are the only one with the Ashbringer, which allows for better storytelling when it centers on you. Similar to Garrisons, they seem to be going down the path of making you into a very central figure.
I really dislike the 'YOU ARE THE ONE NEO' approach they are pushing on us more recently.
In WoTLK we were refereed to as Champion and "Champions". That was fine, I felt like the elite of a vast army of MMO minions. You didn't have to dispell any belief that there were others out in the world doing similar deeds. In Cata Thrall refered to us as 'Hero' all the time, which is fine, you can be an adventurer and hero without being "the chosen one".
But this single "You are the only commander, you are the sole bearer of Ashbringer" is pushing it a bit far for my tastes. I liked being a mook in a vast army where in some story archs I excelled. Those quests as you leveled up, where they treated you as just another soldier, storming these epic threats with sheer determination and numbers.
I think Blizzard are pushing the single player experience a little too hard for me. Feels like they are going for a CoD experience, a quick single player to get you to learn the ropes, then instanced PvP and Raids for the end game.
I actually would like to get more grounded as a character, i'd like to fail for once. Have the bad guys win and advance. I can't think of many instances where this has happened outside of cut scenes...
If everybody is a special snowflake nobody is a special snowflake.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 10:41:17 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The thing is, out character has done a ridiculous number of world saving. That's why they're doing this. Our character IS all powerful. Our character has done fucking ridiculous things. To act like we're anything short of that would be ridiculous.
To act like we're anything short of that would be ridiculous.
Then why do people of lesser station keep bossing me around and sending me out to gut hyenas and pick up animal shit?
Motherfucker, I helped slay Arthas. I rode on the back of Deathwing and sent him to Hell. I charged through the Dark Portal next to Thrall and Khadgar and kicked Archimonde in the balls! Pick up your own damned animal shit. Hell, don't I have a garrison full of followers and soon an entire class hall of plebes I can hire out to you to pick up poop? Why are you tasking a hero such as myself with this menial labor?
Shit, those green leggings you're waving under my nose makes my epic pants look like cardboard.
...
Okay, where's the pooper scooper?
Solumn ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:14:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
its always good to stay huimble?
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:48:18 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This is kind of what I was thinking of when I said all that. I want these quests gone. Unless it involves cleanup after a fight or something, because I think a real down to earth hero would help.
No we haven't... We've been involved in a number of world saving things, sure.
Most of the massive things we have done have been backed up by huge armies and major characters. The reason you feel so powerful, is that you only see what you do.
Our characters can't go and solo current content, we are not all powerful.. we need a raid. The story doesn't ever point you out in the cinematic as the main victor, an NPC does all the dialog and takes the spot light.
We didn't shoot down Deathwing with the Dragon soul, we didn't shatter frostmoure, we didn't judge or sentance Garrosh... We were just there, doing out part (like the countless others).
From a story perspective, prevalent characters at the time engage the big bad with the support of an army and core elite of 'champions'.
I worry that with artifacts they will cross the line and make us the prevalent lore characters, which just won't work for the overarching story.
You're so fucking right and it annoys the people who want a backrub and a coke and maybe a little bit of head from Blizzard for all the amazing stuff they've done.
Things such as helping Thrall kill Garrosh, helping Thrall and the Aspects kill Deathwing, helping Tirion kill Arthas and helping Maiev and Akama capture Illidan.
So they downvote you, because they wanna be so motherfucking special. They wanna be Sรปpรฉrpรกlรค the Lightbringer and they don't care if everyone else are the Lightbringer too.
There's only one lightbringer and it'll never be me. I hope to god they don't force Ashbringer into my hands, i'll be so upset. It's a slap in the face to this games lore and a slap in the face to all of the artifact weapon's prior wielders.
If you're a Ret pally you'll get Ashbringer, it'll also be the only weapon you get in Legion. Your only option is to transmog it to something else, but you'll still se seversl other players walking around with Ashbringers. You'll also have to be "the Penultimate Leader of Every Single Paladin on Azeroth", just like all other paladins in Legion, there's no way out of that.
People would have to be seriously self-sentered to be able to actually ignore all the other Lightbringers walking around with an Ashbringer and bossing over all other paladins.
Seems like a lot of people on here like the idea of walking around being the supreme leader of their class, regardless of the fact that everyone else around them are doing the same. But they're probably able and willing to completely ignore that fact.
I kinda just feels like its going to be yet another factor that narrows the vastness of this sandbox world down to your individual character.
The more the story focus' on you, the more it will have to hide other people out in the world (or make them insignificant), so the very essence that makes the game an MMO.
Westy543 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:54:40 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You can always just transmog it to something else. Visual, sure, but it's better than constantly being bothered by your weapon.
Fuck yes, this is what I've been trying to say all along. I really dislike being put in a position as "the Leader" with a capital L.
I just wanna be a Champion, but now we're gonna be put in charge of Champions, we'll be given a crown and told "You're the King" then we're expected to somehow not notice that EVERYONE AROUND US ARE ALSO WEARING A CROWN.
It's simply bullshit, IMO.
Edit: To all of you motherfuckers who disagree with this. You guys just wanna be showered with loot and titles for past achievements. You don't want it to be a game anymore, you want it to be a celebration of you and your old deeds.
Legion isn't going to be a challenging but rewarding experience. It's going to be Blizzard giving you a handjob, blowjob and rimjob all at once while showering you in fine champagne, bringing you gifts of all sorts while smooth-talking you with titles like "Commander", "Hero", "the One and Only Lightbringer". And at the end, you won't even get to have an orgasm.
TL;DR: Calling us the "Supreme Leader of our Entire Fucking Class" is taking it all a bit too far.
This has been a problem with MMOs from the start. It's just become much more pronounced recently. It's why I have a hard time trying to roleplay in MMOs. I find it hard to "believe" that I'm the hero that killed the evil spider terrorizing the town when I'm waiting in line for it to spawn watching it die by the hand of other heroes over and over.
It seems like blizzard has given up on pretending that there are other players in the world and just making everyone the lone hero.
Lothar, Champion of Stormwind. Later, leader of the alliance forces. It's natural progression. If you want to look at it from the "champion's" standpoint WotLK took, think of it as of those champions YOU are the one that got promoted.
That being said, I would love to lose a bit in Legion. I love feeling as if all my deeds have finally gone noticed and everything, but it's time to set my character backa few notches for the sake of the future.
That would make sense...if you weren't surrounded by other people in exactly the same boat. In a single player game, sure, you can suspend disbelief like that. However, in an MMO it's just asking too much.
Especially, if you are sharing your special class home with everyone else from your class. Literally, everyone around you will have these super rare legendary weapons. That's not exactly epic.
Make way for Durp, dwarven imbecile. Fearer of murlocs and taker of candles. He-who-dances-on-the-mailbox. One who has accomplished nothing of note thanks to the new level-100 boost.
Now the rightful wielder of Ashbringer. May the Light have mercy on our souls.
Ever since we killed Rag in Vanilla we can never be considered just a mortal "champion". We are something special. And it's better this way honestly. It'd be silly to be just a random champion who has defeated dozens of the most powerful forces on the planet without dying.
artyen ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:07:36 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Just as a nitpick (sorry to be "that guy"): We didn't kill Ragnaros in Vanilla. It was his avatar in the mortal realm. His full force and actual essence lived and operated out of the Firelands. When we defeated him, his avatar was destroyed and he was banished back to his home plane. We didn't fight his true full form until we went to his home base in the Firelands during Cata.
Johnny_96 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:07:18 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not sure what about these guys either. We're heroes. I'm not sure why someone would feel good being random <class> #344536546.
The words of someone who wants a handjob from Blizzard.
It's not a game anymore if you're just gonna get handed shit for your previous achievements. They're not presenting any kind of challenge to get the reward, they're just presenting the reward, and that reward is total and complete disregard for all other players.
Darbot ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:27:07 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm sorry, but you lost me with your childish rhetoric. I may not dig the being the leader character but holy shit your little tantrum there is pretty embarrassing.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:29:39 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You sound a little mad bro.
Don't stress it, being a leader is tough. Not everyone can handle the responsibility. No shame in it.
Just continue to not give a crap, don't ever come here and tell us to shut up because you don't care.
And FYI, the problem isn't mainly the Ashbringers. The problem is that every single Paladin will be promoted to "Leader of Every Single Fucking Paladin on the Face of Azeroth".
And also the fact that Blizzard will give it to us all without having us face any kind of challenging encounter.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 13:47:56 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Dromar420 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 11:16:12 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You have to go back to single player games then because thats how mmos work we have always had this sort of thing with these big lore impacting weapons, for example Gorehowl, being used by multiple people all at one time it just never got focused on as much as it is right now. And dont even get me started on legendarys that only 1 of was ment to exist jesus do you even remember the number of people with warglaves running around in BC.
There were more with super rare weapons over time, but they were never common. They required some real effort to obtain. Like it or not, you knew those people put some effort in.
As for how the story portrays your character, no, not every MMO sets you up as the one true hero. Off the top of my head, in LOTRO, Guild Wars 1 & 2, SWG, Lineage 1 & 2, and SWTOR you play an important/powerful character, but you are not the one true hero. In fact, it's most common to be a part of the world and not a leader in MMOs. I can't think of many single player rpgs where you aren't the main focus of the entire world.
While I'd agree there is no one correct way, I personally find being a powerful but somewhat normal member of the world to be far more immersive in the long run.
I dont really feel eather way to me as long as the story of the world is good and develops well I can be immersed but there are a lot more people who want to be that special snowflake than dont. I personally will most likely be moging my frostmourn blades into my heroic hfc 1h blue fire sword as I dont like the astetic of it.
Back then we weren't told that we were the penultimate motherfuckers of our entire class, that's the problem now. They're telling us that there are simply noone more badass than us, while at the same time we're gonna be asked to take down a bunch of fucking moose for Hemet Nesingwary.
The problem is it doesn't make sense otherwise. Like, back in Vanilla? You were just a dude. You went around and helped people. But then you killed Ragnaros. Now you're not just some dude; you're a hero. What's more, you foil Nefarian and kil C'thun. Then you go to Outland as a hero and kill Illidan (well, kinda) and kill Kael'thas and Kil'fuckin'jaeden. Now you're not just a hero; you're a champion. Then you go to Northrend, destroy the Scarlet Onslaught, kill Malygos, and kill Arthas. Your renown grows even further. Then Ragnaros returns and Deathwing starts fucking shit. And you fuckin' kill Ragnaros and Deathwing. And then you set out to Pandaria and kill ancient demons, and eventually fight side by side with faction leaders as you kill Garrosh.
At this point, how does it make sense that your character is still some random champion of the Horde? You aren't a champion, you're the champion. So they make you a commander. And they you topple the Iron Horde and stop the Burning Legion.
Your character has killed demons, immortals, elemental Lords, fucking gods, for Thrall's sake. Canonically you have been there every step of the way. You are the most qualified to lead your faction. How could there be any choice otherwise?
But it wasn't like it was the whole army. It's always "handful of champions" or something like that. You are the best of the best, canonically. It's why Arthas wanted to resurrect you and your raid as Death Knights. So if you're one of the best of the best, wouldn't it make sense that you'd be a frontrunner for head [your class here]?
Except you then also kill Ragnaros again, and Deathwing. And canonically you are the only commander of the Horde forces in Draenor. You're the only one with a garrison, not any other Paladin.
Yeah, that's where they took it the wrong direction. It's not fun to be the manager of a garrison. It's fun to fight.
Dubax ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 13:37:31 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You hit the nail on the head for precisely the reason I don't like WoW anymore. If I wanted to play a single player RPG, I'd just play Skyrim... but it feels like that's the direction Blizzard has been pushing it.
Being a part of something bigger is one of the main reasons I enjoyed this game so much in vanilla, TBC and Wrath. Since then it's been a steady decline, and the fact that every Paladin gets an Ashbringer is just the culmination of that philosophy.
AQ event comes to mind. Something much bigger than i was. The entire server came together to get something done. Loved it.
S1212 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:21:29 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
makes sense really, they are adjusting the product away from the point where they could just throw more servers into the mix. They are facing the PLC death. They know this is not gonna last forever so instead of just pulling the plug they are adjusting so that they can lower costs and keep it going a bit more for the fans.
Pretty funny how like the PLC curve it actually looks.
It's a fallacy to say subs dropped because the game is old. The main argument I hear is that subs are dropping due to development decisions and content.
Ignore the age of the game, because graphically it actually looks really good. Focus more on us getting less content: fewer dungeons, long times for a raid tier, fewer cities, etc. We see classes becoming more similar to eachother (talents weren't perfect, but they were better than the current class customization options), and the role of the player and story/themes changing quickly.
Saying the game is going downhill due to subs declining/age is a strawman argument. WoWs age is irrelevant (if not a benefit), and the subs would be there if the content was. The WoD spike was proof that people are willing to come back.
Coke Cola is old, its not declining. Its a false argument to say "Product is old its following PLC trends", the product is failing because of the lack of innovative and engaging additional.
If the product was following a PLC because people were losing appetite for the product, then it would not have seen a HUGE spike with WoD... People came back to WoD because they have been waiting for WoW to pick itself out of the gutter and get back to its roots, that potential audience came back when they thought that was happening, and quickly left when they realized it wasn't.
S1212 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:24:50 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You dont understand the PLC then. the "age" of a product doesn't define the PLC, The products stage define the products age. I played wow, during the TBC and quit shortly into the WOTLK time for me the game is dead, its not gonna get back to its former glory, i got memories and thats it. I still like to see what they do once in a while thats why i check reddit once in a while. but im not gonna start playing again. they cycled through a lot of people just like me, not really fans but played for a while but wont be coming back. my segment only applies once. and by their number it could look like it might be about that time where they are not really getting any new players in, at least a lot less then the people leaving. So in essence no, the age of the game doesn't matter. But it matters how long it's been on the market. The amoun of people that they can actually sell to is dwindling.
The WoD spike is not really proof of anything other than they can give a cheap thrill to a few people with an expansion. I've been one of those people a few times after i quit, but i never played the full month after launch, WoD got insane hype, it looked amazing and a lot of the people i know that played WOW and stopped pretty much all bought it. They were done within a month. except one dude, so in my limited populace we got arround 15% of stick. thats hardly impressive, and it seems they pissed off a lot of their actual fans. Not exactly a great business plan to piss of the loyal costummers to get a spike.
Odok ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:08:40 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with you. Forcing distinction onto players jumps the shark of the entire MMO genre, and flies in the fact of what made WoW appealing when it first launched: that you could now see this world from the eyes of the Grunt and Footman, after playing as the legendary heroes and commanders for so long. Itโs pretty critical to the social aspect for the exact reasons you described, and WoW has always been the most magical when the community elected its own champions and leaders, rather than Blizzard.
WoW has always been the most magical when the community elected its own champions and leaders, rather than Blizzard.
You've captured the real sentiment of original WoW right there. There are very few player elected heroes now, I guess its because the pool of players is now global (not server instanced). The WoW heroes are youtube streamers these days, not people you meet in game and think "They look epic!".
TheLync ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:51:24 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
People hold WotLK to a high standard, but this last time I leveled, I actually read the quests. The NPCs are thrilled to have you enlist in the war against the Lich King because of your famed history in Outland. You are famous by WotLK. People just don't realize it because they didn't read the quests. It is only now that they are putting it in cut-scenes and cinematic, that people have taken notice.
roerd ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:43:47 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. There were always quests that make you do pretty unique stuff. This conflict in story telling where you do stuff which is meant to be unique lore-wise, while you can also witness many others do the same, is nothing new at all, and I think it's pretty ridiculous to start complaining about it at this point rather than just accepting it as the way the game works.
miikro ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:27:15 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
From what I understand, we're going to lose badly at the launch of Legion.
That's not us, that'll be Varian and Tirion and all those. Then we'll suddenly have to take their place, which is bullshit because there can't be a guild with three or four Lightbringers all being the supreme leader of Paladins.
Blizzard should never have gone down this route, they didn't have to and we didn't want them to.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 10:42:28 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I like it. Speak for yourself. Everyone on this subreddit assumes they're in with the majority, and we hate what Blizzard is doing. I'm cool with it. They're the ones making the game. I just play it, and enjoy it.
Blizzard responds to feedback from the community, they also read reddit and twitter as much as the the official forums.
All though he uses sweeping statements like "we don't want them", he doesn't mean 'everyone'. He means people that share his opinion (a portion of the player base certainly does).
Don't be so naive as to say "They are the ones making the game. Just play the game, enjoy it" the reason that some people are speaking up is because they do play the game and they DON'T enjoy it as much as they used to.
Blizzard goes ham some times on community feedback, I think its valuable to give constructive feedback for a game that has been going for 10 years, so they can make a more informed decision.
I'd agree with you if it was a one off title, like your average solo player RPG. But WoW evolves and always will, why should we not help shape it?
We are there with them as the general of the army that stoped the new Iron Horde we are already sorta a big deal. To clarify they say we wake up on the beach after getting our asses handed to us that means we are there and fail as well.
We were never the Generals of any army. They said we were, but all we did was send out some schmucks to pick up gold and loot for us while we managed the production of various items at out Garrison.
There was never any kind of army coming from our Garrison. If that's what they were attempting to make it feel like, they've failed miserably.
Don't get me wrong, the art for these weapons is really good. I just don't think everyone should be called the leader of whatever class they're playing. I'm fine with several paladins running around with various Ashbringers as long as they had to fight for it, but I'll never be fine with Blizzard naming them all "the Leader of Paladins".
miikro ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:40:33 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with that. The first thing I thought when I saw the artifacts is "great, stuck with ONE WEAPON for a whole xpac."
As a Frost DK, it annoys me that I won't be able to go 2h at all. I mean, I prefer DW, but it's really lame that 2h isn't even an option. The type of damage and the priorities of the rotations are pretty different.
Hydris ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:44:16 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Legendary quests were the same thing back in vanilla.
RockBlock ยท 62 points ยท Posted at 05:58:31 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
That is litterally how the game and MMOs in general work, and has always worked. You are a singular hero. Other players are essentially NPCs of lore.
No one else has an Ashbringer, only your paladin PC. Along with that no one else has any tier set either, your PC is the only one that's ever obtained that special armor from that boss's hideout. No one else ever obtained Sulfuras or Thunderfury, or any dungeon drop weapon like Armageddon either. In fact no other character has any of the items in the game you've ever obtained, including mundane quest rewards, except your character.
asterna ยท 83 points ยท Posted at 07:36:33 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
and MMOs in general work, and has always worked.
No? It's just how WoW works now after countless raids defeating world wide threats. There just comes a point where being a nameless random guy becomes ridiculous when every single person on Azeroth should know exactly who you are. Seriously it would be like if Earth had 20 world wars, and a single group of people saved the planet. You'd know every single one of them by name, they'd be beyond famous. Honestly at this point the players deserve to be the bloody faction leaders, they've done more for the planet than any current leader.
This however is not how the majority of MMOs worked before WoW was released. Most of those were rooted in d&d where you are just a random hero helping villages and a very small scale. Probably because it wasn't possible to create a world large enough for the player to be saving all of it. Eve has done it well where the universe is massive, but groups of players aren't really taking over the entire universe just large sections of it (in which they are region leaders because they literally own the space)
Dokandre ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 09:07:23 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Lore wise you could consider that different "random people" defeated the different bosses throughout the lore. The group of heroes that defeated arthas isnt necessarily the same group that defeated illidan.
Just my opinion though
peon47 ยท 41 points ยท Posted at 09:29:57 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This is why there are NPCs there for all the big fights. Why Maev is there for Illidan, why Thrall helps fight Deathwing and why Khadgar is there for the end of HFC.
These are the people who actually beat the bosses in Lore, with the help of "adventurers"
There's a difference between being a grunt and having the general take credit for the work of the entire army. Those players don't want it to be like irl military, but they also don't want to be the general.
I do fuck the characters blizz created. They're boring. WOOOOO PC master race!
UVladBro ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:47:07 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Lore wise you could consider that different "random people" defeated the different bosses throughout the lore.
That's why I've always liked the view of the world-first/server-first group being the actual ones that defeated those bosses.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 10:43:52 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Guild wars is similar to what he's saying. A lot of them are.
epetuss ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 08:15:24 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
yes. Name one mmo that's not like that?
asterna ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 08:27:23 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Eve, like I said in the post? SWG would probably count, until you got Jedi anyway. DAoC iirc was all RvRvR based, but I didn't play it much. L2 I would argue you are saving towns/cities rather than the planet, and most of the focus was on castles rather than raids when I played. Same with Legend of Mir 2/3, you are saving a city/region rather than the world. LotRO you are basically a random helper to the fellowship.
That enough for you?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:14:06 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You're pretty decidedly NOT the main character in Anarchy Online.
asterna ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:36:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I wasn't talking about scale, I was talking about the player being the central character.
As for some MMOs, yes there are lots but I was just mentioning ones I've played. The ones you listed were more American I think? Mir2 was really popular in the UK as it was run by a games TV network, so had a fair bit of advertising.
epetuss ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:51:40 on September 14, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
No
MrTastix ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:14:14 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
There just comes a point where being a nameless random guy becomes ridiculous when every single person on Azeroth should know exactly who you are.
Everyone knew who Harry fucking Potter was before Harry Potter even knew himself, it's really not that groundbreaking. Most protagonists start as the nameless nobody. Hell lots of fucking movies begin that way, too.
This however is not how the majority of MMOs worked before WoW was released. Most of those were rooted in d&d where you are just a random hero helping villages and a very small scale.
Most singleplayer games defy this. Pretty much all of BioWare's games have you as a nobody who turns out to be the most powerful person in existence for whatever reason. Like, that's the entire point of most RPGs: The world revolves around you, the hero.
Even movies do this. See the Harry Potter example above but look to other fantasy tropes like Lord of the Rings, a story about a hafling who saves the world by traveling across it to dump a ring into an open volcano, surviving the heat only the fucking gods know how.
It's hard to say most MMOs didn't work like this when the amount of MMOs that were readily available could be counted on one hand and the ones that existed before WoW certainly did engage in the hero trope.
All of this is just being pedantic as shit, frankly. Many MMOs do work like singleplayer games because most MMOs don't give a crap for storyline to begin with. Games like EVE Online are the exception and still are by virtue of their entire gameplay.
RockBlock ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 07:49:46 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It has been how it's worked for any video game with a central story. At this point, due to so many game's basing things on WoW and related game, it is the genre staple. Blizzard, like everyone else, realized the only way to tell a substantial story, where the player is able to be part of it, is to be like a normal video game and make the player character a plot-involved, central character.
Eve has little to no intense character based story. It's not a story-based game it's a world based one. Eve doesn't have to do it as storytelling is irrelevant. It is also, and always will be, a niche freak in the MMO genre.
And on top of that being Rooted in D&D has no bearing on being a "random hero." I have played a LOT of D&D and traditionally your PC there also inevitably becomes the central powerful hero with all the artifacts as well. If there is a story the player is always at the centre of it, that's how a story works.
asterna ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:16:40 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair there has been a fair few mmos that aren't based on WoW, it's just they aren't AAA games which WoW players would be aware of. Personally I disagree that a substantial story requires the player to save the entire planet. The biggest issue is that WoW only gives us the combat aspect, there is no charisma based options. We can't talk our way out so we just kill everything instead. I'd say this totally undermines most stories, and is probably why people are starting to get bored of WoW style games. Really Eve is probably one of the few games where charisma does matter, but it's the players speaking to other players rather than to NPCs. Eve really does have story telling, but every players story is different. I'd argue that the story of an eve player starting out mining and working his way up through an indy corp all the way up to be a high ranking officer in an alliance. Only to be assassinated by a disgruntled member and loose billions of corp assets, leading to the downfall of the alliance. Versus a story where the player has literally no contribution as blizzard have already decided what happens.
Personally my favourite part of D&D is the whole trying to talk my way out of situations. Fighting should be the last resort! But then I'm from England so I probably have a very different outlook than in other countries.
Except hundreds of thousands of people have accomplished the same thing, so you're back to the whole "one of many."
Lets take the last expansion. If a few dozen folks ultimately killed Garrosh I'd be with you. But in reality hundreds if not thousands from each server killed him.
So a better example would be somebody who fought in a historic battle along side tons of others.
Z0di ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 07:21:38 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You mean I'm special?
noddwyd ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:18:37 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yes. Z0di is special. Yes.
McKnotz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 09:57:42 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
McKnotz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:10:57 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
nd so are you sir noddwyd.
i dont feel so special now
Megneous ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 11:05:42 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That is litterally how the game and MMOs in general work, and has always worked.
No. That's how modern, casual MMOs work. Before WoW, MMOs were more sandbox, did not focus on YOU as the savior of the world, but as a citizen of a world including all the other players. Player economies ruled, rare items were actually rare, etc. Everquest, FFXI in its early years, and Eve Online are good examples of these sorts of traditional MMOs.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:11:46 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Ultima Online.
GudLmom ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:49:41 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Vanilla and tbc are still gold examples imo
TheSlinky ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 10:05:24 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That is litterally how the game and MMOs in general work, and has always worked.
And all the Vanilla veterans collectively shed a tear.
Renguas ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 11:02:14 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Who cares? It's awesome to be the leader of everything? And to be the boss? Also I think you might be afraid of failure? Yes I'm going to finish everything I say with question marks? Because I feel like this is how you would talk in real life?
BFGfreak ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:33:38 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If I am the singular hero with nobody else like me, why can't I be a gnome paladin then?
Single player games? Yes. Most were very much rooted in you as THE hero who would save the world.
MMOs? That was one of the original selling points - you being just another player in a world full of people just like you. And the games tended to use more generic terms to refer to you ... Adventurer, Champion, Citizen, etc.
From there it was up to you to differentiate yourself from the masses - either through reputation or gear and weapons.
Kolz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:29:43 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
When I stepped off the Zeppelin in warsong hold I was just addressed as an outlands veteran, not the slayer of illidan and purifier of the sunwell. I preferred that :/
According to what I read in article on Icy-Veins, you can transmog your artifact into normal weapon but not other way around. The other question is if they actually fulfill their promises.
Update: Artifacts can still be transmogrified into other items! Other items cannot be transmogrified into Artifacts.
McKnotz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:56:26 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks, That seems like it would break more immersion with the story thrn anything though.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:13:25 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Its just damage control really, targeted at the "but everyone is wearing the same weapon!" group and the "but I dont want to be forced to wear ashbringer!" group.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 07:39:42 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Mizzet ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:17:45 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
We had players who obtained tier 3 who were gods among us peasants. Grand marshals were seen as players who were grand marshals, not some npc.
it's still very much a player centric world where there are other remarkable players besides you.
Yeah, because these things are flexible. It's been 10 years and things are allowed to change a little.
Vanilla was certainly as you describe, at the very least it was much easier to rationalize things that way back then, mainly because back then WoW was also much more of a 'hard' simulation too. That's why reagents and ammo were things, or running on foot to dungeons.
Legendary weapons were literally legendary on your server instead of the model we have today, and obviously there were things like the AQ opening events that only nominated a single player. All these were pretty hostile to the "I'm the main character in everything" line of rationalization.
It was just a different time, and it's precisely a sign that the character narrative has changed that you won't see things like that today. It has become more of a soft simulation these days, starting with phasing technology, then Garrisons, and now artifact weapons, they're pushing the personal story a lot harder than before.
McKnotz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:11:55 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I think mmo in general are dieing now because the community is so informed.
We know what we need, where and how before the game comes out.
Our desire to spoil things is on our heads alone.
I still wish teir sets could only be gained by real raids.
Create a faction based Dungeon set (PvP style) for raid finders like me as a badge rewards for LFR and dungeons.
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McKnotz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:36:11 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
While I agree on alot of what your saying they need to reward people in those groups accordingly.
A casual player should be rewarded with story content and long chain quest gear like the old dungeon set 2 but work like PvP set.
You get a base set and as you get newer updated pieces it aesthetically just a improved version of you previous piece.
This would make the player connect with the story through grinding/questing. You could look at your helm and go I got that face plate piece for your helm from killing such and such after this quest.
The raiders should be rewarded with epic looking unique gear based off their raid aesthetics for their effort and their guilds get special rewards.
Raiders should get a sign of respect by casuals, I remember in early days if I saw a player in teir gear I would just follow them and look at the stats on their gear or the crazy mount they acquired.
This is what drives mmorpgs, the casual player hoping maybe in the next expansion they can get into a raid and be that "cool" too.
I remember the first day I got valor shoulder pads, it was amazing. I went to goldshire and posed all night as new players would randomly ask where i got it from or follow me.
Little did I know back then valor had shit Tanking stats but meh. :)
I'm really trying to say is that you need something to strive for, if everyone can get teir aesthetics in LFR then you are killing your "elite" players.
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RockBlock ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 07:53:56 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Gameplay is not equivalent to lore. Those players canonically never had "teir 3," and essentially never existed, no matter what your in-game experience was.
I feel better about it if I approach this game as a singleplayer RPG with multiplayer elements.
It's not that the game has never made use of the "personal story" method, but rather that it is now so heavily focused on that it's hard to maintain the immersion of being one amongst many.
It's strange, because the appeal of an MMO used to be that you were part of a bigger, living world. Nowadays, it seems that the majority of people prefer to be the ONE hero, even in the context of an MMORPG.
At this moment, it's clear that Blizzard no longer really cares about that type of immersion, something that I am not pleased about. I mean, not only is everyone of the same class going to be told that they are the leader of their class orders, they are also constantly going to be seeing each other in their class halls, high-fiving each other with their Chosen One weapons. It now makes more sense to see WoW as a Skyrim-esque RPG where the world is also a multiplayer lobby, rather than an actual world in which you coexist with others.
I don't really understand why this needs to be explained. Did everyone think there was more than one Thunderfury running around? The game is an MMO, but from an RPG standpoint YOU are the only one with X weapon/gear
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:39:51 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Depending on how thin you slice the Naaru, you could easily get a few hundred Ashbringers. Maybe thousands, depending on how big the Naaru is.
Fairly certain you cannot trasmog like that. It has to be a sword -> sword, axe -> axe, etc. Unless they changed it and I am not aware
CurReign ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 00:33:45 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They did change it.
Alkein ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 05:43:53 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Not many people remember this, but you can acquire every artifact for your class, and transmog it to the other artifact if you want, or into any other bow in the game if you dont want a gun.
You can't transmog something to look like an artifact
Alkein ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:53:36 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well, you can't transmog non artifact items to look like an artifact, I haven't seen anything saying whether you can or can't transmog artifacts to look like another one. But even in that case there is plenty of other mogs to choose from.
I don't recall the part about acquiring the other artifacts for your class, you're right, but I do remember hearing you could transmog your artifact to other things. But I feel like that takes away a lot of the 'cool' aspect of modifying the look of the artifact. It's a solution, but not the ideal one.
Alkein ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 06:09:41 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You will be able to do the questlines to acquire each specs artifact. So you can obtain all three, although I think the upgrades you put into one won't carry over. But its meant to make it easier for people who play an offspec role.
Utecitec ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 12:31:55 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I think they said you could mog it into other weapons, but couldn't mog other weapons into it
Gnivil ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:17:24 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm relieved, in all honesty, I was worried that BM was going to be another example of "The most famous of this class/specc dies and you take his/her weapon".
Getting killed by a piece of art is equivalent to being beat in battle by a pampered Noble. I'd rather get my head crushed in by motherfuckin Gorehowl.
Devidose ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 03:10:54 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
RsonW ยท 101 points ยท Posted at 04:46:03 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
hi every1 im new!!!!!!! holds up deaths bite my name is grim but u can call me t3h P4tr0n oF d00m!!!!!!!! lolโฆas u can see im very much getin in here!!!! thats why i came here, 2 meet ppl to pile on like me _โฆ im 5 mana (im good value 4 my cost tho!!) i like 2 count in on fites w/ my other grims (i summon other grims if i dont die from dmg if u dont like it deal w/it) its our favorite thing getin in here!!! bcuz itsSOOOOย much dmg!!!! they pilez on 2 of course but i want 2 meet more ppl to get in here=) like they say the more the merrier!!!! lolโฆneways i hope 2 make alot of freinds here so give me lots of commentses!!!! PIIIIIIIILE OOOOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <--- me getin in here again _^ heheโฆtoodles!!!!!
Erodos ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 11:51:16 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
A combination of the Penguin of Doom copypasta and Grim Patron Hearthstone card.
jerslan ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 06:22:18 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I think it's a Hearthstone reference, but I'm not sure...
It could just be a jumble of nonsense generated by a bot that isn't anywhere near Turing-Complete....
OBrien ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:45:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It could just be a jumble of nonsense generated by a bot that isn't anywhere near Turing-Complete....
Well, uh, if you have to say "It could be a robot", then it's Turing-Complete.
frencc2 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:29:38 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Turing-Complete doesn't even have to do with AI. A computer is Turing-Complete if it can solve any problem an Infinite Tape Turing Machine can, which nothing is since it would require infinite memory.
You are thinking of the Turing test, which is unrelated to Turing Completeness.
jerslan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:07:46 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
One post is not enough data points to tell one way or the other, so it's still possible that it's generated text or a bot.
Patron warrior is an obnoxious and dominant hearthstone deck hinging on leveraging one of two creatures, Frothing Berserker or Grim Patron with a bunch of enablers in order to oneshot the opponent.
Given that Blizz has explained that they are being tight-lipped about a lot of expansion features because they want to make sure that they do whatever they say that they will do and the fact that MMO-C says, "Survival Hunters will get a Harpoon ability that allows them to throw a spear to pull mobs towards them," it seems like we know it as much as we can know stuff.
Realistically, though, given how petty you're being, I think you just came here to disagree with people. Go away.
Well, we were pretty sure after the initial announcement, because it included the artifact spear for hunters. They didn't specifically confirm that it meant survival was going to be melee until a couple of days later, though.
Emarelda ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:42:12 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Wait what?
1RedOne ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:29:33 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Not sure how to feel about it either, I love the diversity of it but I've always felt of the hunter as a "sniper-esque" class with ties to the wild, however I could see it working.
But now they're the only class (that we know of) that can switch between melee and ranged. That'll be pretty nice for a fight or two maybe I guess? Yeah idk either. At least it validates the BC huntards.
nojdh ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:33:21 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They'll probably be transmoggable, maybe not the artifacts over other artifacts but there's plenty of guns to choose from and hopefully you can mog those over artifacts.
Deamia ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 01:44:36 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They are, there was a blue post about it. Artifacts are transmogable, but not the other way around.
there is no such equivelent weapon, ashbringer in a league of its own. Most of these weapons are not going to be ashbringer legendary, more like... gorehowl legendary, still legendary but not super weapon legendary, just really fucking amazing legendary if that makes sense.
It's sort of a shame Gorehowl is already in the game. They could have done more with it than a random drop off Malchezaar. Still not sure how he even got it, but I've had some tinfoil theories in the past and I remain hypeful that they'll explain it.
jerslan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:38:36 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I think you meant to quote:
rifle that looks like the BM equivalent of Ashbringer or the Doomhammer
Do you have a source that MM is getting the Windrunner bow? apart from the legion website saying it turns you into a "master marksmen"
With marksmen losing pets it would make sense to give MM a gun and turn them into a kind of sniper rifle spec
Enderbro ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 03:58:30 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That gun model is by no means for sniping, it's a big ass cannon. Other than that I think the master marksman thing should be proof enough since it's also believed to be Alleria's bow who did not have a pet.
xinxy ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 05:00:59 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Oh wow that's not even a gun. It's a goddamn bazooka.
dssurge ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:24:29 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Last time they had a gun like that in the game (see: Widebarrel Flintlock) it didn't have a custom bullet animation or sound effect, which made it feel really underwhelming.
The spear gun from BRF did shoot a spear however, even if it sounded like a bow when you fired it, so I have hope they might get it right this time.
OBrien ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:47:51 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It better be fucking safe to say that the customizable legendary weapon that the expansion will revolve around will have custom animations.
purifico ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:42:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Last time they had a gun like that in the game (see: Widebarrel Flintlock) it didn't have a custom bullet animation or sound effect, which made it feel really underwhelming.
Did you expect it to shoot woodchucks or something?
If thats the final model, which I highly doubt, it looks a lot like a BM weapon, the horns seem to be connected to a skull shape with a purple eye and I don't think that would fit very well with MM.
But all the models we've seen that haven't been featured on the legion website will undoubtedly get changed or altered quite a bit.
Westy543 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:20:57 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They also may not have any skins finished for it; they showed off in the slideshow what looked to be Uther's hammer which would undoubtedly be for holy paladins, but no real follow up or confirmation.
Westy543 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 04:19:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
It's not guaranteed exactly, but it does say used by a famous Ranger General of Silvermoon. Considering they want to have a somewhat familiar lore basis for most of the artifacts, I can't think of any but the Windrunner sisters this they'd be talking about.
And it's called "Legacy of the Windrunners." It makes sense for MM, the rangers of silvermoon don't have pets accompany them into battle; the gun has tusks attached to it, which makes more sense for BM than MM.
Gnivil ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 09:19:30 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I think the weapon description on the legion site is a better sale:
Legend has it that this elven family heirloomโonce wielded by an infamous Ranger-Generalโcan turn a mediocre archer into a master marksmanโฆ and make a master truly peerless.
Gnivil ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:38:53 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That's on the wowpedia page I linked to but yeah, it's fucking obvious that it's the Marksmanship weapon, and I'm honestly not sure if /u/Doritosiesta is an idiot or just incredibly pedantic.
Look, I'm sure it is the MM weapon, I was only trying to create discussion. Blizzard have said things in the past that have turned out to be red herrings or just false information. It's not that big of a deal it was just a friendly conversation.
Reddit is one of the few places you can actually find people who want to discuss this stuff, so it's interesting to see what other people think.
Are the Windrunner's specifically known as marksmen? Even that wikipedia page labels it as a Hunter artifact.
I mean, until we get a piece of information that says "this is the MM Hunter weapon and this is the BM Hunter weapon" we won't know for sure.
Gnivil ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:29:25 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The description on the official website is:
Legend has it that this elven family heirloomโonce wielded by an infamous Ranger-Generalโcan turn a mediocre archer into a master marksmanโฆ and make a master truly peerless.
Besides this, we know already know the survival Hunter is melee, and High Elven Rangers never had pets in the past (certainly none of the Windrunners do), but were instead essentially long range archers. So yeah, we can safely assume it's a MM weapon.
As far as I know Marksman is losing them altogether, BM will get a greater pet influence and Survival is getting totally remade. It's to create more disparity between the specs, which I totally understand.
Rhodeo ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 04:39:26 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Its about time too, so far all we had is "Explodey Black Shot," "I May as Well Play Mage," and "Team Piss Off the Tank."
Westy543 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 04:42:02 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, that's so sad to me! MM has always been my favorite spec and (while I admit I don't use my pets all that often right now) I think it would have been a really different leveling experience if I hadn't had my favorite pets leveling along with me.
Given that you don't get Lone Wolf until pretty late in the process, I guess you pretty much have to level as BM now.
Well I can imagine MM's abilities will get a damage boost similar to Lone Wolf, as Lone Wolf would need to be removed and replaced with something, but hopefully exotic munitions becomes useful!, and if that is the case, you probably won't need to level as BM because you'll be one shotting everything as MM!
jerslan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:25:14 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Prior to the 6.2 nerf, I ran SV with Exotic Munition because of the splash damage for AOE fights and for the bonus serpent sting on single-target fights. It worked pretty well... as long as I remembered to switch off the splash damage when doing CC pulls....
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:49:37 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
some kind of gun for BM.
My money says Nessingwary's Trusty Rifle or some shit like that.
Probably a gun they make up to be like Hemet Nessingwary's original hunting rifle or something like that... He will have defended Ironforge from an onyxia raid or something of the sort. Some BS that hunter's won't be happy with. (Can you blame them?)
Thoras ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:51:53 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Survival not getting Rexxar's axes is a travesty imo.
My theory is that they're going to make Anduin lose his shit for some reason, maybe Velen dying, and he'll go Shadow and attempt to wreck everything. Then Blizz will be like "Hey, Shadow Priests, you have representation nao!"
I will cry. But I will never stop playing Shadow Priest because I am that red-headed stepchild.
Scoob79 ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 04:08:34 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
A major Alliance lore character going crazy? Now I know you're just pulling shit out of your ass. That never happens.
I'd take that over their current "let's plan a redemption arc for a character who doesn't actually need redemption but has to 'find it' anyway so we can feel justified in making everyone he saved stop shitting on him"
Poor Shadow Priests. At least you're represented in Bodyguard form!
KRAW.
Zeliek ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 03:08:56 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm having such an identity crisis lately. I've been staunchly shadow priest since I found myself at the end of Wrath (I had previously been Druid, then Paladin, then Warlock, then Death Knight, then Druid again, until finally becoming a Priest) but I just feel so useless and directionless lately. We're perpetually unbalanced, our talents are nonsense and cookie-cutter, and we have no identity. I've been playing all my old characters hoping they ignite some sort of spark in me, but I keep going back to my priest hoping things will improve. Maybe legion is our time? I mean...
Vampiric plague spreading spooky ghost old god void psychics? I don't even..
Can we go back to being a DoT class? That'd be great.
I also started playing my Priest towards the end of Wrath and I love her. Problem is the only time I've ever felt USEFUL was when all my great Shadow gear made for good Atonement healing gear and I could switch specs on the fly to off-heal.
Then they murdered Atonement so now I don't even have that going for me. Now I'm just meh DPS that loses points for needing to stand still so much.
Though I was momentarily useful when they brought Molten Core back. Mass Dispel for everyone!
Tomdaddy ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 04:59:02 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
SPriest, where your 1 spammable spell gets rid of your dots ._.
It almost feels like they thought we were too much Affliction Warlock-y so they tried to fix that and instead we morphed into wanna-be Destruction Locks.
Zeliek ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 04:58:47 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Its annoying our mega DoT, void entropy, is literally the worst spell in the game, meanwhile the talent that makes us not a dot class is by leaps and bounds the best choice, unless we have mass AoE than autistic spirits is the best.
Dimnos ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 09:02:14 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Anduin seems pretty much there to be the connection between Wrathion and the Alliance and Horde. He is also fulfilling the role of Jaina as a peaceful diplomat. Considering the way his character is written in both Tides of War and War Crimes, Anduin strikes me as the sort of character where even if Garrosh had murdered Varian in front of him, he'd still be a devout follower of The Light.
With that said, the idea of Anduin becoming a shadow priest and causing tensions within the Alliance as Varian struggles to rule while his son is going mental would be interesting to the story, rather than Anduin's current position, which is simply to keep Wrathion's connection to the Alliance relevant.
Definitely an idea but if what was hinted at with bringing Magni back actually happens (and I really hope it does) we've got parent/offspring tension already there. Moira's entire existence was setting up the kingdom for her kid. Combine that with the fact that she thinks her dad's a sexist daughter hater and wooooow, Dwarf drama!
Also another chance for Anduin to flout his mediator skills, if he can handle A) Being around Moira after she laughably failed to kidnap him and B) being in IF after his teenage hormones crush died near there.
Don't give Blizz ideas. After the farce of a trial book Sylvanas has been one step away from batshit for awhile. Given that Vereesa was the big thing for her a wedding would be a perfect "ascension to evil" set-up.
Athrasie ยท 36 points ยท Posted at 00:43:51 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Most classes do. The least I'd have to say would be warriors and rogues and hunters. Simply because they exist in the world, and I haven't seen much about them aside from the rogues legendary quest
[deleted] ยท 57 points ยท Posted at 00:46:44 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm glad Thrall's leaving the picture a bit, because even with the Earthen Ring in Cataclysm I feel like our lore is "Thrall."
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 01:33:55 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Poor Nobundo. :(
[deleted] ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 01:56:56 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Nobundo is one of the best examples of shaman lore in game; my first character was a Draenei shaman (still playing him to this day as a troll), and I was proud to follow a Broken to explore a path chosen (lorewise) by very few.
I'm wondering if elemental shammies will get a staff or something that belongs (belonged?) to Nobundo. Since enhance get Doomhammer, I couldn't think of any other shaman that had any other lore-worthy weapons...
[deleted] ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 01:42:50 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Our lore as told by World of Warcraft is much different from that of Paladins in World of Warcraft or Shamans in the Warcraft universe (older games, books, snippets of WoW).
Also while Gul'Dan and Ner'Zhul were shamans, their big history begins with converting (just as the Draenei shaman lore begins with their conversion from the Light/Naaru).
Ner'Zhul didn't suddenly become a Not-Shaman. He still used the Elements (albeit as a Dark Shaman, meaning that he forced the elements to do his bidding rather than asking for their aid) until his demise and eventual turning into a piece of armor lodged inside a giant icicle.
Well, Gul'Dan didn't become a warlock suddenly, either, but you get my point, haha.
Athrasie ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:58:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Hopefully he ends up underground. But yeah, I agree. I'll settle for anything without an Orc in it at this point
runefar ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 05:01:48 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
To me it seems it is often like "Thrall Good, Alliance Good, Horde Cool" Alliance often seems to be the focus of lore but Horde has the most interesting stuff
Therval ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 07:14:32 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Alliance focus of lore
Past 3 expansions have starred an orc protagonist/antagonist/both
runefar ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:17:21 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
What I was trying to say is that the expansion often make Thrall the focus and the Horde seem good but as well that the alliance is the best organization in the world and is the good guys while the Horde is at fault for everything in the Universe. I personally hope multiple of the Events of Legion are gonna be caused by the Alliance instead of what is likely to happen another event is gonna be caused by the Horde
Honestly, I'm perfectly happy with whatever Vyrkul lore or whatever they were gonna give us. Those guys were fucking awesome.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:24:49 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Hm, I feel like they're just your generic Viking type... :/
BFGfreak ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:42:47 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I bask in the glow of the rising war, lay waste to the ground of the enemy shore, wade through the blood spilled on the floor, and if another one stands I'll kill some more.
I am a warrior and this is my song.
ginfish ยท 49 points ยท Posted at 04:14:02 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Warriors have no lore? W-what!?
Grom Hellscream
Brox the Red
Anduin Lothar
Varian Wrynn
Durotan
Garrosh Hellscream
Varok Saurfang
Blackhand
Kargath Bladefist
And i'm probably missing a shitload more. Is there another class that is more badassely represented in Warcraft? No.
metaldog ยท 35 points ยท Posted at 04:29:22 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Baine / Cairne Bloodhoof, Magni / Muradin Bronzebeard, Doomhammer
MrDTD ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 05:08:26 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
And they're a good 95% of the armies we see out in the field.
HarvHR ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 12:52:51 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
A warrior is a foot soldier, one of thousands.. There isn't really a lot of lore to be had other than by the heroes who show their skill in combat more than the rest
It's not like we are in tune with the light, or elements, or wield deadly arcane or shadow magic. We just wack stuff to protect our allies and have fun doing it
Odok ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:27:35 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That may have been true back in Vanilla but at this point weโre believably at a much, much higher level than โguy with a sword.โ I want to see the class imbued with more Viking-hero, ancient samurai, โmundane mysticismโ types of lore. Tales of Arms warriors attaining such a heightened martial prowess that they can cut through any material as if it was air. Fury warriors that have reached such a level of physical perfection, channeling every strand of muscle and scrap of anger to a razor edge, that they can accomplish feats that should be impossible without the use of magic, lifting boulders and bashing through solid stone walls. Protection warriors with such heightened senses that they can dodge an arrow mid-flight, in full plate, and a willpower so mighty that they can just WILL themselves to live when any normal body would die.
Plus, what exactly is thunderclap? Shockwave? Ravager? What is even happening here with these abilities? There are too many warrior abilities that are just Rule of Cool handwaves. I want some lore and explanations behind them, dammit. Is thunderclap me smacking the ground so hard it makes a deafening wave? Or smacking my weapon against my shield? Am I swinging a weapon so fast itโs making a shockwave through the air? Literally the only warrior lore Iโve seen since the Vanilla stance quests is the post-Cata troll starting zone telling fresh warriors that the stun/root from charge is the target shitting themselves at the sight of you barreling down on them.
So you're confirming that the warriors don't have lore.
Yeah, maybe they don't need lore, but that would still be cool to have something more than "these people just wack stuff".
Insi6nia ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:34:26 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm cool with just being able to whack stuff really hard.
Dekklin ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:28:36 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Can confirm, main warrior, like whacking stuff. Also like choppy stuff, slicey stuff, and Smashy stuff. Rawr.
Prot warrior artifacts looks awful. Who gives a crap about some sword and shield made from a dragon scale. We've killed hundreds or thousands of dragons. And it's not even Deathwing's Adamantium plates that they're made out of. As an orc warrior, I kind of want gorehowl for Arms.
HarvHR ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:11:37 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I don't play prot, but I am hoping the re-skins of the shield are much better..
Purple just doesn't yell 'Strong Warrior!' to me, it yells 'Time is money, friend!'
That's not warrior's lore, that's warrior characters' lore. The feats of Lothar or Wrynn aren't "warrior feats", they are Varian and Lothar feats.
Athrasie ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 13:12:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Didn't mean no lore, I meant not much story behind their class. I'm well aware of most of the warrior lore figures. I meant only that there isn't much written about the class in general. And representation =/= lore
Yahmahah ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 04:27:10 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, Warriors are a little too ambiguous to really have special class lore. Especially when there's really no magic or otherworldly source behind their power.
atlas3121 ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 06:24:01 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
That's honestly what I love about warriors. There's no Light, no Elements, no Arcane power, no Demons. Just a character with a weapon and some truly breath-taking anger management issues.
Athrasie ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:14:53 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I agree. Was just answering a question lol
OBrien ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:55:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Hunters are even worse in their ambiguity IMO. In-Game they're an hodgepodge of Beast Masters, Shadow Hunters, Priestesses of Elune, Elven Rangers, Dark Rangers, and Riflemen. At this point nobody can say where their powers come from. Voodoo, Arcane, Shadow, The fucking Moon, just kind of all of it, plus magical traps from nowhere.
Do Hunters have any big lore figure heads, though? Warriors get both Garrosh AND Varian. What do Hunters get? Rexxar? He doesn't even use a bow or gun. Hemet would probably be a closer choice.
Viralsun ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 07:49:10 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Ohh, Sylvanas, that's a good one. Isn't Tyrande more of a priest, though?
Dimnos ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:15:21 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Tyrande doesn't fit in to a single class within WoW. She's a Priestess of Elune, but also favours the bow as her weapon. Some characters just don't work when trying to fit them in to a single class, mostly because those characters came from before WoW and before the idea classes. She can be considered a hunter in the same sense that she is a ranger, which is essentially what a hunter is. Rexxar can also be considered a hunter, but with a far different approach than Tyrande. When trying to fit a major character in to a single class, it just doesn't work sometimes because classes are generalised and given themes in WoW for design purposes.
I'm still surprised that there wasn't a Blood Elf shadowpriest lore character growing out of the core of "Blood Elfs were originally redeemed by doing bad things to Mu'ru that Mu'ru was willing to accept"
"Oh, there's a being of light that speaks like broken glass? Let's tap into that broken-glass-pain-crazyness! aaaww yuss, that's the stuff!
None of it is centralized or strongly felt in the priest class, however. Priests are a mess, sadly. Their lore and feel for every ability is stripped from various different sources. Paladins, Shamans, Druids and Warlocks have a very strong sense of direction and you can feel the lore behind their class.
With a Troll Priest you're flinging around the exact same as Human Priests, Night Elf priests and Forsaken Priests do (also the whole holy magic used by forsaken priests deal is really just touched on in an unimpressive small amount). Despite the fact that they are drastically different. Hell, Shadow priests are hardly even justified at this point (like how they now use anything from vampiric plagues to ghosts and Old God-like tendrils - with only some slight old Cult of the Forgotten Shadow background). I really had hopes that WoD would add some more lore to it there with the whole shadowmoon clan death magic dealio, but alas.
It's a shame that the vanilla, race-specific priest abilities like Devouring Plague (Forsaken), Star Shards (Night Elf) or Hex of Weakness (Troll) had to make way for balance.
Which is also why I am a little peeved with the upcoming Paladin Order Hall (seeing as it hardly feels like Sunwalkers should have a place there) and no doubt the Priest Order Hall will bother me even more due to the extreme racial variety that priests should have.
[deleted] ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 02:38:01 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly they could bring back racial spells by making them all functionality the same, just different flavor.
DalekRy ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 03:33:40 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This would go against the whole point of normalizing classes.
I am in favor of the opposite. Each race brings something different to their classes and that ought to shine, but the additional work it takes to keep classes reasonably balanced every season/tier makes it a lot more work for developers than they (clearly) want to work on.
It is fun to think of the possibilities that lore-friendly race/class combinations could bring.
Some ideas I have come up with in the past:
Forsaken Priests: Unique animations for casting Holy spells. These could be variant of cower to show the character in agony.
Troll Druids: Loa forms.
Orc Shamans: Instead of becoming elemental ascendants, give them Ancestral Assistance. Similar effect, but your character kneels and you take control of a Spirit Orc that can then move independently. Just a flavor distinction but a small difference.
Holy Night Elf Priest: Post-death form change from Vrykul to Moon Goddess form.
And give every race a glyph to alter racial abilities to fuse with class.
Tauren Shaman: War Stomp becomes Earth Shatter. Stun and
affected receive increased crit damage for 5 seconds.
Human Rogue: Every Man for Himself becomes Look Out for Number One. Breaks cc and drops you from combat or everyone drops you as their target.
Dwarf Priest/Paladin: Stoneskin becomes Lightskin. Additionally receive 15% of all incoming damage as healing.
Orc Warrior: Blood Rage becomes Fel Rage. Turn big and red, dealing 80% additional damage but becoming dazed for 3 seconds after the rage ends.
Night Elf Mage: Racial Invisibility now gains an optional blink once per use.
Night Elf Hunter: Racial Invisibility adds a stacking buff to your next spell/active ability. Max buff reached after 15 seconds.
Goblin Shaman: Rocket Jump and Totemic Projection are now fused.
Forsaken Death Knight: Cannibalize and Death Grip are now fused. Cannibalize will continue until its duration ends as normal or it is interrupted. The chain is replaced by an intestine.
Undead Warrior: Heroic Throw now has the warrior's arm attached to it as it flies.
Snuzz ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 03:47:48 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
How many millions of subscribers do they have to lose for you to get locks shouldn't fee like mages shouldn't feel like ele shamans, shouldn't feel like shadow priests? I think the opposite. They DO get this is not ok. As always, they have competing philosophies at Blizzard. Those "business" people that site undergraduate business cycles for their failing facebook ideas, and those gamers that get what works but don't have a voice.
Classes/races need a niche. WoW is boring as it stands. They flat out said they wanted to make classes feel more unique. Otherwise might as well just cut to the chase and make 4 classes.
DalekRy ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 05:17:41 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
How many millions of subscribers do they have to lose for you to get...
Me specifically? The guy talking about diversifying classes? None. Firstly, I'm just a single player, not a developer. Secondly, I think your reasoning at the start is poorly grounded.
Subscriptions soared when WoD released, despite the stat squish arriving in 6.0.
I don't think the bulk of sub losses were due to class homogenization for that evidence. Instead I found myself raid logging quite a bit this expansion because there just was not much to do that interested me.
Weekly stuff is finished within an hour for most players: 1-2 world bosses each patch, no need for dungeons after initial leveling, and as far as PvP goes no matter how cool Ashran is you will never hook non-PvPers into that content. Ashran is not an appealing option if you don't like fighting players.
And for those that want to gear up but don't/can't raid LFR is just a single afternoon.
Aside from a full hour on Tuesdays and weekend raids I spend roughly 15 minutes in the game on a given day and only because its the time needed to ensure I clear 30000g/month so the game is F2P.
So why do I keep subscribing?
I have enjoyed the raid fights. The work put into them definitely shows. But for the most part WoD's financial flop taught Blizzard:
Don't assume delight over updated/flashy imagery will outshine lack of content. No flying meant people got bored. Fast.
Do not roll out "major" patches without also giving actual content. 6.1 offered um uh...was it music boxes?
Do not invest a ton of time/resources into experimental new features. The Garrison was a great idea but it fizzled in the long run.
I'm doubling down on the previous point with Shipyards.
Otherwise might as well just cut to the chase and make 4 classes.
I agree with you. But practicality dictates that the more diversity required within the game, the more resources are also pulled in. I don't want just 4 extremely unique classes. A warlock and a mage should not feel or look the same. Classes are the backbone of the game and veering too far away from the original non-spec model was the first nail in that coffin.
Sure there were "necessary" talents and the cookie cutter builds that nearly all of us used, but on occasion there were some odd choices that worked out really well.
I am torn on one topic: ability bloat/reduction
We currently have 34 (and soon 36) specs in the game. Each plays a little differently with different spells. Some of those spells could totally overlap without sacrificing the uniqueness of various classes.
Example: Fireball.
Mages have Fireball/Frostfire Bolt. Shamans have Lava Burst. Warlocks have Incinerate/Soulfire.
They are all fairly similar. But the distinction comes in how the spell synergizes with the specialization. That's how you do unique. You take a basic ability that fits a general archetype and tweak it for each specific wielder.
Or for melee classes using a shield offensively. Warriors get a Shield Bash, and Paladins can chuck their shields. General Idea -> Unique Spin.
But it can't stop there, or you really do only have 4 archetypes with too little flavor between them. The Affliction Warlock is (or has been in the past) a great spin on casters. They still cast spells, but the effects are what set them apart. The spells do nothing initially, but the overwhelming damage increases to become overwhelming.
The target dies of a thousand tiny cuts in the form of DoTs.
Blizzard has branched out and is not suffering for the sub losses. And the faster they pump out expansions the better it will be anyhow. The WoW token has added notable profit gains too. While players like myself aren't paying for the game, another player is paying $35 that month instead. 5 dollars a month increase isn't much on a small scale, but it adds up.
If only 5% of players are using wow tokens (out of roughly 5 million players)
250000 players would normally be $3,750,000/month
But five extra bucks each adds up! $5,000,000/month
That is more than a million dollars a month more essentially covering more than 80,000 lost players.
It doesn't make up for the launch boom by a long shot, but it softens the blow. And don't forget the gift shop. I bet you know at least one person with a mount or a pet paid for with real money. One in twenty players has forked over a few extra bucks almost guaranteed.
Then look at Hearthstone, Heroes of the Storm, and the Diablo Real World Auction House.
WoW is still a big earner, certainly. But Blizzard is playing the long game. They have scrapped multiple games despite investing notable personnel to development.
Do I want the game to keep getting better and better? Sure. You bet I do. But realistically the expansions and extras have been padding sinking sub numbers for years and now Blizzard has expanded its portfolio, so I think WoW will stay supported with a couple more expacs, then it will be dropped.
Snuzz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:25:45 on September 13, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You make the argument that Blizzard had a huge influx of subscribers, simultaneously excusing them for a 5mil subscriber loss due to a token system that at release did not show an impact on revenue. My guess is their announcement of the expansion and promises to fix issues that people like me have been shaking their head at for a long time, urged people to resubscribe. I know I am the type that "prepares" for expansions.
The influx in player base at the expansion in no way shape or form proves Blizzard is doing a "good job." It instead goes to show you that the business cycle of an aging game was a fallacy and a huge amount of us out there still love Warcraft. What we don't love is Blizzard and the focus on introducing mini games and tepid content that leaves us wondering why would pay $15/month to do nothing that is fulfilling.
I want to clarify I actually do not think 4 classes is a good idea. I was being sarcastic. I think racial imbalances are fine as long as they are not ludicrous and other racials help to offset this and be creative. I think we both can agree they have not done a good job at this at all. I DO NOT think getting rid of racials is the answer. I think they should learn to balance, something for some reason they have never been good at doing. This is an MMO. Nothing in the game is necessary. It is all made up. What is fine is having options, diversity and choices. They have strayed from that horribly and I think the penalty has been that their 30+ options of classes/builds feels like 4. I actually agree that the old/big talent trees were better. There will always be a cookie cutter build, however, the old trees left options for creativity and diversity. It also gave designers options for balance. It also gives a leveler something to strive for as they progress and far more often then every 15 levels.
I am confused about your argument for not having anything to do (which I whole heartedly agree with) and you simultaneously saying having flying to get places faster and do things faster would help? This logic is what hurts the game. You want to counter being bored from doing things too easily and quickly by doing them more easily and quickly? Did you mean to say make things harder to accomplish and add flying? Otherwise you are talking out of both sides.
I also decided I hated questing this expansion. Rare mobs should be rare. The rare mobs spawn more frequently than rgular mobs leaving everyone scratching their head wondering what the point of putting them in was. I also like leveling diversity. I have to go through the same stupid zone over and over if I level. They can have two portions to the war story that lead you to different zones without damaging the incredible story they laid out.
This leads me to dungeons and raiding. I'll stop you with the PVP argument. They have always been horrible at it, no expansion excluded. I think they have a plan to fix it. We'll see if it works.
They need more dungeons with harder difficulty with new content. The hardmode dungeons this expansion were easier than the normal version. It was mind boggling. In general, I would prefer to see many dungeons with various levels of difficult and the same with raids. This I thought BC did exceptionally. They say they want you to see the content, but when the next tier is out the previous tier is dead immediately. That shouldn't happen.
In terms of class diversity and the resources it takes, this is a pve dungeon stomp MMO. Where the Hell are they spending their money other than on the entire point of their game? They have not been rewarded for putting facebook mini games in the games so why not stop wasting money on that and actually make their game good? This just sounds like horrible business management. Please to fire.
I really could care less about their other games. If you want to pose the argument WoW is ok being a massive waste of time/money/shit because they have other games, I guess the discussion has ended. I am not saying you're wrong. I am just saying that my only option in this case, is to stop caring and paying, which is exactly what a lot of their consumers have done. If that's my only recourse then I will continue to do just that. Why make any arguments for improving the game if you believe this? Either they care or they don't. I like to pretend that they do.
DalekRy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:43:48 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This is a long and well-reasoned response. I look forward to the subsequent discourse! My response is in multiple parts.
1/2
You make the argument that Blizzard had a huge influx of subscribers, simultaneously excusing them for a 5mil subscriber loss due to a token system that at release did not show an impact on revenue.
Well this is mostly right. The token certainly dampens the blow but I am not excusing anything. I think calling me a loyal Blizzard gamer would be fair for the most part, but I am not so enamored with the company that I won't look elsewhere for my entertainment. I don't play Starcraft and I won't start with the reasoning that WoW doesn't have day-to-day content that interests me. I can take my money elsewhere. But I think you summed it up better:
I really could care less about their other games.
I do enjoy Hearthstone but that was a lucky break for me. I don't spend money on it. Alas, like you I play a game because that specific game attracts me.
If you want to pose the argument WoW is ok being a massive waste of time/money/shit because they have other games, I guess the discussion has ended.
That's straying outside of my intended statements. Any mention of finances was to show that Blizzard as a company is not suffering. Whether you interpreted that or misread and mistook for something I wrote really does not matter. My only point regarding finances is to show that Blizzard is still a thriving company. The implication I may have left out was that their revenue from branching out means that they can maintain a large staff, awesome tech, and continue supporting/improving/developing.
That is not to say that Blizzard has been doing a lot of editing with their retcons in WoW. It is not to say that I like finding WoD to be a barren wasteland.
Either they care or they don't. I like to pretend that they do.
I don't think that because Blizzard is branching out its revenue that they don't care about WoW. Heavy convention presence, a Movie, and multiple commercial teasers for WoD show that even a big company like Blizzard can be hit-or-miss in terms of game success.
WoD I think is more of a symptom than a cause, and here are a couple reasons:
Player Perspective: Many players are on to other things. If I were a broader genre gamer I may also have left for "greener pastures" and picked up expacs time-to-time. When you come back after a break the catch-up is pretty rough. In the /r/warcraftlore subreddit I see regular posts requesting lore "fill-me-in" posts because people fall behind.
In-Game System Changes: While I don't think ability reduction alone was a primary contributor, I will certainly acknowledge its presence. But that's only one of many things. Profession changes, currency removal/addition/alteration, inconsistent flying capabilities, inconsistent rewards across expansions...et cetera can be irritating. For those of us that keep up-to-date it isn't a big deal, but the come-and-go players find this unattractive.
[Regarding flying] Otherwise you are talking out of both sides.
Flying is an expected feature. There was a lot of unrest about that prior to WoD's release. I didn't personally mind it, but I thought adding it so late into the expansion as a feature was an odd choice.
And being an amateur poster on a gaming forum I think it is perfectly suitable or even responsible to compare and contrast the weights of my own opinions with the community as a whole.
Do I fly? Sure. Do I think flying works against the progress of the game? Definitely from a leveling perspective. My interest in WoW is almost entirely endgame. Getting to raids faster is super. As for PvP I can just queue.
But Blizzard clings to the leveling experience. I appreciate that they want to make the game attractive to more people. More money means (potentially) better tech and staff. And hopefully that means increased development.
As a long time WoW player I plan to continue playing. And I sincerely hope that the company does well and continues to invest success into WoW.
The rare mobs spawn more frequently than rgular mobs leaving everyone scratching their head wondering what the point of putting them in was.
I ultimately think this comes down to semantics. Its an unfortunate choice of term. Changing the classification from "rare" to "named" or "unique" is not something that concerns me personally. Because
I also decided I hated questing this expansion
I am a doughy, studious academic in the real world. I would probably sprain a wrist wielding an axe, I can't do magic, and I certainly don't think rifling through pockets justifies mass murder. But in WoW I get to be a badass lightning-wielding Minotaur that slaughters monsters and humans alike. I am not even a mythic raider or 2400 PvPer. I like to do them both competitively but also at my leisure.
But my studious academic nature also appreciates the lore and a great deal of lore development within Warcraft's universe that is in the game(see below) is gathered not in raids, but out in the world. Until they come up with a better means of delivering lore in the game and simultaneously continuing to attract casual players that enjoy leveling I don't know a good fix.
Most of my alts just sit in the Town Halls slowly leveling via XP missions because level grinding is undesirable to me. And the low level guys I do have get motored around in the sidecar of a motorcycle because I throw resources at heirlooms to speed up that process.
(From above; feel free to skip this paragraph as it is at best tertiary to our conversation) A whole separate conversation but in brief: I dislike major lore developments being available only in external media when it costs extra. Admittedly this is partially because I am a cheapskate, but it is also because my reading interests lean toward the academic or at least more substantial literature.
DalekRy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:44:24 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Thread formatting, curse you! This is the 2nd of a 2-parter because holy crap did I write a lot! Please scroll down to the other part first (marked with 1/2)
2/2
I'll stop you with the PVP argument.
By all means try : )
They have always been horrible at it, no expansion excluded. I think they have a plan to fix it. We'll see if it works.
For being so detail-oriented in the rest of your analysis this is notably negligent. There are a lot of players that engage in PvP. The fix you refer to is the new PvP system overhaul which appears to be removing PvP gear from the game.
For PvPers this could mean obtaining gear from PvE sources which is for many extremely frustrating. It works to my advantage also being a raider, but pushing a point solely for my own benefit is irresponsible and I'm not going to do that.
Conversely, the new system will strongly favor PvPers in the long run. Late comers will find themselves outclassed by the ability tweaks of seasoned opponents.
And how could we fix this? Would removing racials or completely normalizing all stats work? Probably not, because the WoW community is accustomed to min/max, despite previous efforts to fix this.
PvP has a varied history. Some ability changes have made it less attractive to me this expansion, and more attractive to others. I take it PvP is not an aspect of the game for which you much care. And that's fine. As I used to say before the token, "its your $15/month."
But I tend to consider all sides. Just like with leveling its not my cup of tea. For my own personal interests I didn't care about the zone changes for Cataclysm, and I don't consider the PvP system terribly broken either.
But the changes made were done so with acknowledgement to the community. People asked or complained.
They need more dungeons...
Now we agree. There ought to be more instances, and definitely more content that encourages recycling. I think it is unreasonable to demand 20 dungeons at launch, but 10 with a nice amount of variance would be really good.
Timewalking showed me a possible light at the end of this tunnel. The reward system can still use a lot of juggling, but throwing players of various higher levels back into old dungeons (and scaling us down) is a cool move. I think it might be favorable to make timewalking permanent, but allow all the way down to vanilla.
And there is another possibility. The queue system already shattered the lore-relevant aspect of dungeon crawls. Why not make queued instanced content cooperative? So what if your healer is a Troll and your tank a Dwarf? There is no immersion in Dungeon Finder as-is. Throw in a pile of achievements too.
I also like leveling diversity
While I stated previously that my reason for disliking leveling was due to an interest in endgame, I agree here as well. More options. But you must acknowledge too that design takes resources. I have a few options at the happy middle ground I would propose were it in my power (some may be mutually exclusive):
2 roads: much like the original talent system, you can follow one of a few "journeys" that ultimately unlock attractive rewards, but with the option to go the completionist route.
Bonus Objectives: Literally put them everywhere. Hell, make the XP scaling too. So I can get from 99 to 100 killing murlocs in a specific place in Westfall.
Scaling instances. Previously mentioned.
Scenarios: Also scaling. But lots of quick little adventures that do not require specific roles where you (or your party - yeah you can do them solo) accomplish a goal.
level Ups: Dungeons and scenarios should offer a level-up in addition to the xp they grant.
Attaboys: Rewards earned for completing specific functions, these are sort of like factions-within-factions. A horde leveler could complete all "military theme" quest chains for unique rewards. Or an alliance player could do the same for aiding a list of specific heroes.
in addition...some other perks:
Pay it Forward: Reaching max level on a character grants your account a boost token which can be applied to another character, making it also max level. Any character maxed using this perk will not receive an addtional boost token
Swift Learner: 500% leveling bonus token. Permanent. Can be applied to the character that earned it for future expansions or to a character of any level.
Booster Aura token: you and any group members receive a 100% XP boost. Could also contain additional thinks like movement speed increase in world content, buffs, etc. Would be stackable.
/u/DalekRy special: reach max level on a character. For each other character on your account pick one: an item from blizzard store upon reaching max level or instantly reach max level.
The latter is probably economically unrealistic but as someone that detests leveling personally it offers a reward to levelers and skips the grind for those seeking only in-game content.
My goal in proposing all of these is to appeal to the various interests of the community. As a collective community we fund a huge and amazing game that has both a history and a future. So banding together - even if it means not all of us get everything we want - ensures that we all get at least something.
Blizzard is big, but its not a limitless company. There are restraints; tech, staff, time, etc. that hinder us from having 20 raids each expac or 5 zones to choose each level.
If you want to pose the argument WoW is ok being a massive waste of time/money/shit because they have other games...Why make any arguments for improving the game if you believe this? Either they care or they don't.
They care. Regular support, new content, external media, conventions, advertisements, and community outreach prove this. I only think that WoD was not a success. But Blizzard is a huge successful company that can weather a bad expansion and learn from it.
I propose changes not because I think WoW sucks, but because I believe it is wonderful. For a brief part of my waking life I can break from being a nerd and placate my boredom with the power of the elements*!
*Or whatever your class preference.
I hope I cleared some things up and did not step heavily on your toes. You write and reason well enough that I would enjoy bouncing more ideas off of you in the future.
And totally check out /r/warcraftlore if you want to get really nerdy : )
I'm with you on the "new race/class specific animations". That bit's awesome.
That said? Realistically, for the race/class combo racials, the best case scenario is just "there are now cosmetic differences/additional animations for these specific racials, and then there is no variation in gamplay". They don't have the racials balanced as is, and there is a 0% chance that adding a pile of additional, unbalanced super-racials would positively add to the game.
Still 1000% behind you on new, cool animations though
DalekRy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:51:01 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Absolutely. Redesigning even just the names/icons/appearances of class spells is a significant overhaul.
Balance is a must for a game like WoW to maintain longevity, which is why so many racials have changed - and they have adjusted racials multiple times - but really, truly the solution is to drop them completely.
And from the get-go it may have been better to stick to general themes for each class. The lore has classes going all over the place in direct counter to game play.
Humans heal with the light, Taurens wield sun power, and Night Elves use moonlight. Forsaken also use The Light but oh boy does it hurt. Trolls use their Loa.
Night Elf and Tauren druids are identical excepting cosmetic form differences, but Trolls were given Loa reasons...
Orc shamans have been given some considerable attention in the Lore, and Tauren don't seem so far off Dwarves but Goblins can buy elemental aid from bargaining and Trolls have um Loa...
I respect that each culture has distinctions in WoW. Its beautiful that way that each race has its own origin and means of attempting to understand the world around it.
But when your hero chose a class with some semblance of spiritualism behind it, should they too not have embraced that new philosophy?
Shamans make pacts with the elements. Hell, we have seen the Elemental Lords. We know they exist and further we know that elementals can be contacted, summoned, etc. Elemental Shamanism is a confirmed truth.
Druids are the same way. We know that shapeshifting works, the Emerald Dream is real, Malorne and Cenarius exist...
A Troll Druid would thus recognize Malorne as a Loa. There is no need to complicate it. Just give Trolls Loa forms if you want them to still follow their quasi-vaudun ways. Or have them trully follow the Cenarion path.
Will I miss my War Stomp? You bet. It was never truly overpowered, but it was a minor advantage I always enjoyed, but I will get over it.
Cosmetic distinctions are the real solution. But that will never stop my imagination from exploring the possibilities that could exist if Blizzard had unlimited resources focused on WoW.
camobit ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 05:25:52 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I think everyone is agreeing that we'd like to see more racial art and animation distinctions, but IMO they should really scrap any racial abilities. I've lost enough friends who faction changed to human because of how OP their racial is in pvp. It shouldn't even be part of the conversation when you are deciding what race to play, it should be based on how you like the look, or the fantasy element of playing an elf or zombie or Minotaur... Not which race will give you the most success in pvp combat or in a certain type of encounter.
DalekRy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:03:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
"Lightning-Wielding Minotaur" is how I have always reffered to my shaman main. He's elemental and for the most part I have always avidly done PvP with him. I don't actively roleplay but I do enjoy considering his backstory and all motivations which is a combination of eat humans and burn the world down.
I adore the idea of each race having its own flavor, but in an MMO with competitive aspects balance is key. And they only way to really do that is to remove the combat-effective unique abilities.
Priests have shit lore. We have no class reps since Vol'jin and Tyrande are 'priests' in name only... The Naruu have boners for Paladins only and Velen2 got killed off. Meanwhile Velen1 is still stuck on goat island. And yea, we had things like benediction. But what stories and enriching lore do we really have?
The big thing is that WOW has tons of stories that deal with 'the light' but everything is always aimed at Paladins and everything pally. Rarely do Priests get mentioned. Yes, Anduin is crafting lore for us, but he's been silent for this whole Xpac and spent half of last Xpac, according to the books, KO'd by Garrosh.
I'd rather have Chi'ji give us some sweet sweet birdy love. But let's think of the last real significant Priest story Blizz threw at us...
we have Ham... The Priest that got his ass handed to him in the AB intro story. So I guess there's that...
Edit - or maybe our class rep will just be a bush. Thats all. Just a plain bush. I remember the dev's telling Priests to 'go hide in a bush' to make up for our crap CC and terrible escape mechanics back in Vanilla.
camobit ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 05:28:03 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It seems really likely that grown up anduin is going to be a key lore figure. Plus if Illidan is back, there will have to be Tyrande involvement. Legion could be interesting for priest lore.
Lunux ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:51:14 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I think the problem though is that priests don't exactly have many big characters to borrow weapons from. The only ones I know of are Anduin and Velen (and maybe Tyrande?), not really any really famous shadow priest out there.
drysart ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:36:09 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Archbishop Benedictus could have been perfect as a shadow priest when he went off the reservation; but even then they didn't make him a shadow priest ... he used twilight magic in his encounter, not shadow magic.
Shadow priests are really the lore the Blizzard forgot.
OBrien ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:58:34 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Shadow Priests seem somewhat likely to pull a weapon from an Old God source. It would be pretty fucking great if their intro quest to Legion involved going into Ahn'Kahet or Ahn'Qiraj, maybe into Ulduar.
Yea, Priests are so boned with the lore. And any priests of significance have either been killed, are 'priests' in name only (Vol'jin, Tyrande) or 'grow up' into Paladins. Ugh.
He is. Shadow Hunter, really, is a multiclass. It's a priest/rogue/hunter/warrior.
But according to Hearthstone, and to the descriptions of his spells in his book, Vol'jin is very much a priest--he uses Cascade specifically, does a resurrection, and casts obvious shadow magic in addition to fighting with his glaive and bow.
But, shadow hunters are before anything else, servants and conduits for the loa. So Priest+.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 06:43:11 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Looking at WoW for lore was your mistake. It's low-class drivel that appeals to 12 year olds.
Vakyoom ยท 159 points ยท Posted at 01:52:53 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Nefarian, Nefarian, he's our man. If he can't do it... GREAT!
musicchan ยท 43 points ยท Posted at 07:24:31 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Rickum Wrackum Rickum Ragon, stick that sword into that dragon!
I'll admit the early comics were a bit odd. but even before they hit issue 100 it really changed a lot into a much, much better comic. Actually really from 50 onward it was pretty great
nsgould ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:09:51 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I only ever read the first few as a kid. Worth going back?
Boomanchu ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 04:35:08 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I loved Lei Shen. I wish they had done a bit more with him. He didn't feel all that foreboding. Don't get me wrong, Isle of Thunder was great, and his personification was fantastic, but beyond the patch trailer I didn't really feel like he was a massive threat.
I love his lines though.
"You! You have earned my ire. I will make an example of you, such that all who look upon my might will tremble and submit! I am Lei Shen, slayer of kings and gods! You have made a grave mistake."
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:28:17 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
He does the voice of Mr. Bumpy?! I loved that show!
0011002 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:14:43 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I have a signed Dark Wing Duck poster from him from when he was at Anthro Con.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:50:31 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I dunno about you guys, but I plan on transmogging the shit out of mine. I'll probably run around with the Ashbringer skin for a while, but I know eventually that I'll be looking through my void storage of collected goodies over the years and applying them as needed.
Pretty much like we all do now. The only difference is we won't have to worry about running around to find a new weapon, just working on the one we already have.
I dont get why more people are saying this. Its exactly what will happen. There will be a bunch who will keep it regular, sure, but there will be those who customize, and even more who xmog to something else.
Also... enough of this "everyone has ashbringer" shit, only 1/3 of one class with have ashbringers. There will be 12 classes with an average of 3 specs each with their own weapon. There will be TONNES of variation. Youre seeing more of Blackhand's mace now than you would ever see of the same ashbringer come Legion.
Steelmint ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:25:37 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Didnt somone do the maths on this a while a go? There'll be more unique artifact skins than unique weapon models in WoD iirc
To be fair... Id say thats more about there not being a lot of unique models in wod in general. But the point still stands. If its fine now, itll be fine then. At least the artifacts will be better designs than horns and spikes strapped together with leather.
Sounds awesome. With the new xmog system i think a lot of people will be bouncing around cool looks. I really hope they make it account wide.
eyabear ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:44:46 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, honestly. How many people of the same class AND spec do you really see on a common basis? For most content the answer to that question is going to be rarely, if ever, and often only for short periods of time (five mans, leveling, raiding with 10-15 players). The most extreme situation I can think of is either raiding with 25-30 players, or derping around in the capital city/current content hub, where you'll have maybe 5 other matching class/spec combos around you at one time, tops. If 2 of those have their weapons transmogged, and 2 of them are using a different skin than you, that's all of one guy you have on your screen who is using the same weapon look as you. How is that any different than the current system in terms of immersion?
And a lot of people don't transmog or won't because they've got an artifact weapon. The claim was that you don't see your spec that often anyway, which is not true when there's going to be a hub for your class and a whole wing for your spec, and you're going to be spending a good bit of time in it as you level and once you hit max.
This is also the reason, IMO, why it would be fine to open up legendaries as transmog fodder. People won't all be running around with legendaries all the time. Maybe at first, but the novelty will wear off soon and people will get bored with the same old thing and want to use different looks and/or separate themselves from other people.
I think whats important with the legendaries is that they stay something difficult to achieve. Now that you can solo ulduar and molten core, many legedaries are easy respective to when they were introduced.
I would suggest something similar to the legendary cloak/ring questlines but with the final prize being the ability to make a legendary xmoggable.
[deleted] ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 04:06:27 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Besides, imo, Ashbringer is really ugly too so that adds onto even more people transmogging just because of that
I agree. No idea what the fascination behind Ashbringer is besides it being this big ol lore-heavy thing. Weapon's ugly and dumb-looking.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 05:48:57 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
I guess not many people agree with us, but between you and me (and the rest of Reddit), Ashbringer looks more like a toy or even somewhat like a candy sword, than a real paladin weapon. :/
Edit: Dudes, it's just our opinion. Y'all need Jesus.
I just keep thinking that the Infinite Dragonflight is behind it somehow.
"How're there so many Ashbringers around?!"
"Infinite Dragonflight."
"But that doesn't explai--"
"Infinite Dragonflight!"
"...oh that makes sense now actually."
BioStef_ ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 03:54:40 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
everyone: eyyyyy yoo blizz whats with da fuckin lore its pretty rekt
blizz: like you want an ashbringer
everyone: what
blizz: take it or ill shove it down your throat
fockface ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 06:41:10 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously, where are all these people who were dying to use the Ashbringer before Legion?
RaccoNooB ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 09:05:27 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The point I think was that it would be a legendary weapon which not a lot of people would have access to. Sort of like the Blessed Blade of the Windseeker.
Now that it's being handed out like candy on Halloween there's nothing special about the weapon. It's essentially just another Blue quest reward.
But like others said, with variations and transmog you'll likely not ever see a standard Ashbringer. I always roll a minimalistic transmog. My priest is a farmer.
I digress. Basically Ashbringer isn't Asbringer. It's a cheap mass produced knock off in my eyes.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 08:49:33 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
sigh... "Did someone say [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker]?"
Yupp. But that's honestly what they want. They want something that's hard to get so others "can't" get it. Not many consider that they themselves might not(probably not) get it.
The Ashbringer now in my eyes is nothing more than a normal quest reward. Go kill 12 bears: Congratz! Here your complimentary "legendary". But that's probably how I'll deal with it. Pretend it's not actually the real deal.
True. I shouldn't expect much from the general WoW population.
reanima ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:32:10 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It should have been something else really. We should be going out to gather the materials to forge a legendary of our own. Ashbringer is significant because blizzard makes it so, but if they put effort into making the process of making our own legendary feel epic, itll be just as significant.
thpthpthp ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 08:00:39 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You'd be naive to think that logic is exclusive to 6 year olds. The world runs on supply and demand, scarcity promotes value. And exclusivity is one of the biggest driving forces in any progression based game.
Also in lore the Ashbringer is a legendary weapon of which only one exists. Giving it to everyone contradicts the narrative and requires players to suspend their disbelief to a ridiculous extent.
Also in lore the Ashbringer is a legendary weapon of which only one exists. Giving it to everyone contradicts the narrative and requires players to suspend their disbelief to a ridiculous extent.
If you can't manage to realize that its merely an effect of gameplay, perhaps you should go play a single player game where you can be the special snowflake you want?
thpthpthp ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:32:33 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You just stated that it's value is in it's lore significance, and now you're happy to throw that lore under the bus?
Furthermore is it so offensive to you for other people to have different opinions that you must resort to name calling? To quote yourself:
You just stated that it's value is in it's lore significance, and now you're happy to throw that lore under the bus?
How is lore being thrown under the bus? The weapon is going to be wielded by another extremely powerful Paladin. Thats all there is too it as far as the lore is concerned.
Furthermore is it so offensive to you for other people to have different opinions that you must resort to name calling?
No, its a ridiculous sentiment to get bent out of shape because another player has the same item as you in a game where there are over 5 million other players.
If a player wants to have something that nobody else has, an MMO is not the game they should be playing.
As long as Tirion doesn't die to give me my Ashbringer I will be the happiest person to ever stand off against an infinite tide of world-devouring demons.
lkymn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:06:56 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Plenty of people wanted ashbringer to be in the game, but once tirion used it to destroy frostmourne we thought it would be too significant in the lore to be obtainable.
nater255 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:19:48 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The first slot transmogs the weapon. You see it and everyone else sees it.
The second transmogs the weapon only for everyone else. You will never see an artifact weapon in the hands of another player, you will only ever see it in your hands. The second slot allows you to select which weapon model everyone else will see.
That would cut this problem out, but it would also cut out seeing other classes wielding those weapons. Maybe you can see the artifact weapons of the people in your party.
pengalor ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 02:59:42 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Interesting idea, sort of similar to the bodyguards and how they are just a generic NPC when you see them with another player. I think the problem is it would probably be a nightmare to make work since you'd have to be receiving all the information from every other player of which weapon they choose for it to appear as. With the bodyguards they all just appear as the same generic NPC, if they just got a generic weapon model it would work but people would probably complain (and with good reason).
[deleted] ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 03:11:15 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
since you'd have to be receiving all the information from every other player of which weapon they choose for it to appear as.
It wouldn't really be any more information, since you are already receiving information on what every players weapon is. If you have the Ashbringer equipped the server would just send you the "second transmog slot" info instead of the normal weapon model info.
Lobreeze ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 03:07:29 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That isn't any different from how transmogging already works. It's trivial to send an id of the weapon for the client to render in its place.
serfmaa ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 05:55:08 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Trivial?
If transmogging works as "render shoulder as item ID #" I see absolutely no reason why it'd be "trivial" for these weapons, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say.
If transmogging works as "render shoulder as item ID #" I see absolutely no reason why it'd be "trivial" for these weapons, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say.
Because it would be exactly the same. You would still only send "render weapon as item ID #". You'll never have more than one appearance to render for each item.
basically the only difference would be that there would be a small part of code that decides whether to send id 1 or id 2 based on if the model is your own or of another player
serfmaa ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:21:13 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, exactly. Client sees his own while others see something else, that isn't something that would be trivial to do.
yes it is trivial. for the program there would only be a slight adjustment
it's literally just a few lines of code that consists of very basic programing elements because the important and complex parts are already done, you just have to give them a different information based on an easily checkable thing
Lobreeze ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:46:16 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It would likely be a bitch to code, but it wouldn't be any more information to receive since you're already getting that information now.
Although, they could create some basic weapons to replace those artifact weapons. Then they could use a different skin for all of those to match the weapon skin you're using, so a flaming ashbringer makes all over basic weapons be a bit flamier.
Edit: -6 and zero comments, there isn't even anything worth downvoting in this post.
Duese ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 18:55:16 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Or they could just not hand everyone some of the most important weapons in the entirety of the warcraft lore and avoid the whole problem in the first place.
They are already making up new lore for half the classes already, why the hell did they have to create this problem for the rest?
Karthok ยท 61 points ยท Posted at 00:43:46 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This is the point where I'm finally sick of "EVERYONE HAS AN ASHBRINGER" posts. A clever post, so I'll upvote, but it's an overused post.
The only problem with the 'Everyone is Ashbringer' comments is that the logic behind it is shoddy. Not everyone plays a paladin, not every paladin plays ret, not every ret paladin will have the same Ashbringer, not every ret paladin will have the Ashbringer un-transmogged. People are so concerned about everyone having Ashbringer that they're forgetting about the other 30+ significant weapons and subsequent variations.
fockface ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 06:10:49 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That logic isn't shoddy. It's not about feeling unique as a player, it's about the lore. It's like if they gave everybody the one ring to rule them all in Lord of the Rings online. It just trivializes something that used to be a significant piece of the story.
It's not that everyone has one, it's the fact that more than one can even exist.
Nobody seems to care that everyone has a copy of Blackhand's hammer.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:20:46 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
People are sort of glazing over the fact that everyone is using the same crap anyways.
Imo Blizz should just make a lore excuse like Multiple Ashbringers were forged from the shards of the original one. So everyone is running around with a blade made from a piece of the Ashbringer. At least then they would have an excuse for giving it to everyone. Rather then "I see you have the Ashbringer... As do I."
Duese ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:04:21 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The reason why no one cares about that is because of the importance of the weapon in the lore. We know that there is only one ashbringer. We know that there is only one doomhammer. We know that there is (was) only one Frostmourne.
For The Black Hand, we never really had the details around it as an important weapon. It really didn't matter if there were hundreds of them out there because it's easy to assume that the weapon's history doesn't matter since we weren't really given that history at all.
Rexzar ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 10:54:52 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
No one cared about all the gorehowls, hand of ragnaros, thunderfury, illidan glaives etc floating around, people just needed something to complain about.
Duese ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:14:44 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Thunderfury and Hand of Ragnaros were technically crafted which made sense when more people had it.
Illidan's glaives weren't specifically important beyond the fact that they were glaives which was different. We already have other mobs in the game that use glaives, so that alone isn't enough to warrant their exclusivity. Further to that, the lore behind his weapons isn't exactly that known nor has it been made important.
Gorehowl is one of the exceptions in the game that does get ignored by players/devs but more importantly gets ignored by the lore as well. This is where the importance is really highlighted.
Gorehowl didn't really have any lore behind it's actual drop. Because it didn't really have any lore behind it, it made it so you could ignore the fact that it was dropping and then forget about it when Grom is holding it going into MoP.
This is a very big difference when you look at the major lore weapons being proposed because they ARE making it a huge part of the lore. It's being done in a way that they can't just ignore or retcon out. They are building the story around it.
Rexzar ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:49:34 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Ashbringer is crafted aswell, by Magni who from the sound of it is coming back, its made from the core of a dead Naaru so it is possible to have multiple I imagine, since Naaru may be helping with the legion and dying as a result, hell it is more possible to have multiple Ashbringers than it is to have multiple Ebonchill or Doomhammer.
Duese ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:01:42 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They are doing the same thing with Frostmourne as well and it just doesn't work. You take a weapon where the lore is built around there only being ONE of them and then you just throw it out to everyone, you destroy the value of that weapon.
HoR and TF were both introduced as weapons that weren't specifically only being ONE of them.
The real thing that just fucking bothers me is why they needed to reference it to ashbringer or frostmourne or any of the known legendaries at all. The story and the value of these artifact weapons doesn't get diminished if the story of the actual weapon is entirely new.
For example, if the new weapon was crafted by Magni from the core of a dead Naaru, that's interesting and fun. When they try to piggyback off of a part of the lore that is really important to people, then there isn't a situation where Blizzard comes out ahead.
These artifacts being related to known lore weapons is going to be the "flying" of this expansion to a lesser degree. This is where blizzard created a problem that they could have avoided from the start. This problem will (to a lesser degree in this case) define the expansion just like the whole flying ordeal defined this expansion.
That's because those weapons aren't anywhere near the level of Ashbringer. The Ashbringer is pretty much the single most powerful weapon we (as players) know of. Not only that, the only weapon close to it in power, Frostmourne, was destroyed in a single stroke. Gorehowl, Doomhammer, a random Windrunner Bow, The Warglaives of Azzinoth, they are all practically scrap iron compared to Ashbringer.
reanima ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:40:09 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I feel that the looks are a minor problem compared to the idea that its a weapon with significant lore for itself and its previous owners being given out like its a clearance sale. It really back to the conflicting identity the players have. For the longest time were considered just another adventurer in a crowd of them, but ever since WOD weve moved up several levels. Instead of just being a part of the story, we are slowly being the story.
In Legion, each class will be able to do a questline which gives them a spec-specific Artifact weapon which can be leveled similarly to the old talent system.
wew5450 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 03:24:25 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Ever since LK or so weapons and armor from the hardest bosses in the game have looked almost identical to weapons that you can get in content doable by PuGs. How is this any different?
Hell, if they give unique artifact transmogs for killing Mythic bosses (somewhat likely) then the situation will actually be slightly better than it is now.
People are way too interested in what other people have on their characters.
Do you have totally awesome gear that looks badass as fuck? Did you experience an epic story and have fun adventuring to get it? Good. Great. That's all that matters.
If people having what you have diminishes what you have, you are way to concerned about other people's shit.
As to "no copies in lore" tell that to the Corrupted Ashbringer, The Warglaives of Azzinoth, Thor'idal, Quel'Delar, Thunderfury, Sulfuras, Shadowmourne, etc. Basically, this is where you have to have a certain suspension of disbelief. Everyone has the "unique" weapon of their spec as part of their own personal story in Legion. It's a single player aspect in an MMO. So what?
Most of those were so rare you'd only see 1 or 2 of them when they were current.
Now every spec by default is going to have the same thing (unless they decide to xmog).
Old blizzard wouldn't have done this, it used to be a MMOPRG before a single-player RPG. Now it's a single player RPG first, with MMORPG aspects second.
I don't get what you are getting at. Since vanilla there has always been a BiS weapon for every spec. It's not like it's anything new that people use the same weapons. I mean the BiS weapon for pretty much every caster dps class/spec right now is edict of argus surely one for each spec is better than one for every 4-6 specs is better?
The difficulty in the quests doesn't make me feel like I 'earned' any of this shit nor deserve to be called "commander" by every single person on Draenor.
I killed 10 bats and marked 8 trees for lumberjacks, and then killed some named rock guy who chipped off 5% of my HP in the process.
It's all just so easy that everything rings false to me.
I really don't care if everyone else has one. I will enjoy playing with every artifact that becomes available to see what type of talent/skill combinations they come up with and seeing the kind of synergy they have with their respective class/specs. It's more important to me that they do these right and that they are interesting than it is that everyone gets one.
gyshall ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 02:44:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Second off, I haven't played WoW in almost six or seven years, at least since Burning Crusade.
How common are Ashbringers now?
pengalor ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:13:30 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's referring to the next expansion: Legion. Somewhere early in the leveling experience from 100-110 we will get an 'artifact weapon' that is different for each class and spec. Some of these are well-known weapons (Ashbringer for Ret Pallies, Doomhammer for Elemental(?) Shaman). Word is we'll be spending the rest of the expansion with these weapons specifically (so no other weapon drops). They will have a talent tree built into the weapon specifically to modify how it functions to your liking and they will grow in power with you throughout the expansion (for example, killing a raid boss may upgrade the weapon's stats).
I'm sure this has been answered elsewhere, but I can't find it and late to the party...: what happens if you respec? do you keep it or get the other artifact?
pengalor ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:10:48 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Actually, not entirely sure. They said you will definitely have to level them independently so I assume you'll get the artifact for each spec you have and you just switch over when you change specs.
Right now? Not at all. The (Corrupted) Ashbringer questline is dead and gone and has been for some time.
However, for the latest WoW expansion, titled Legion, the expectation is that all Paladins will have Ashbringer, and what will change is the customization therein. You might have a Flaming Ashbringer, while my paladin will have a Broken Ashbringer.
You know, that was pretty standard back in my day.
Only, we called them clerics.
yusuf69 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:26:29 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
and they got d8 health and they LIKED it
MatzDam ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:54:53 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Easy there, he was just explaining something to someone who hasn't played in a long time, he might have dumbed it down a bit because of that. No reason for passive-aggressiveness
No, they don't just give you the artifacts for each spec. You have to be that spec, and then go through the quest chain for acquiring it. So, any Paladins whose only specs are Holy and Prot will only have those two artifacts.
Well for now, pretty much non-existant since it's not in the game. But the next expansion has a feature called artifact weapons which consist of every specs having one legendary type weapon for the whole expension, and Ashbringer is planned to be ret pally's weapon.
nater255 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:23:46 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
A few of us still have our Vanilla Ashbringers, thank you!
Lmao I quit after TBC too, went back for panda land and whatever the garrison xpac was called then and I was so let down, I like world PvP and not that ganking crap... Shame they ruined a really good game
Eh, MoP was awsome. Filled with content. Granted PvP have been shit for ages but the PvE of MoP was bountyfull and varied. WoD is like... half an expansion though.
This actually brings up something I've been curious about. Is it just assumed that your character is the chosen one and only you wield the artifact? I don't know why, but in an MMO that just really bugs me. We're all the chosen one; it's dumb. The chosen ones, sure. But you can't refer to a group of 25 people as the chosen one - singular.
g00f ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 02:30:19 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's always been a problem, and was really highlighted by the legendary cloaks. You were suppose to be Wrathion's personal agent...as is everyone else in your raid.
It's kind of an inevitable thing. In Vanilla and BC to a certain extent, you were still just an adventurer, any active involvement in major campaigns you were essentially just hiring yourself on whether it be fighting for your faction(pvp) or working with, say, the cenarion circle(AQ40, and correct me if i'm wrong on the faction). Horde or Alliance governing bodies were never actively involved in the major conflicts, as far as I recall that didn't really start up til BC. Now you're working with ranking people, and often, so its the polar opposite of Skyrim, where people now know you're this badass who's done shit.
om1cron ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:15:17 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You were suppose to be Wrathion's personal agent...as is everyone else in your raid.
So you're saying that a Black dragon lied to you about something?
sirkib ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:24:31 on November 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Call me crazy, but I really liked that about early Wow. adjusts rose-tinted glasses. I really liked just being some random ponce, running about in Ashenvale, skinning deer for pelts to sell for tuppence a bag. I can appreciate the new way of doing things. It lends itself well to a game... but it still takes me out of the experience.
As far as the story of the game you and you alone are the chosen one of your spec and you alone wield that artifact along with a chosen one of each other spec in the game and canotically ,or as far as story is conserned, those are the only people with these weapons.
This gets me thinking about the novels that come out. Who are the main characters going to be ? Lore-wise in WoD and in Legion our characters are individually and exclusively the most important character. We're the Commander of the Horde/Alliance forces on Draenor. We're the ones who didn't die or give up hope and chose to fight the Legion.
The novels are going to be dull as hell if they're about Thrall sitting at home in the feral position because he lost hope, while we continue to get zero recognition.
[deleted] ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 00:58:23 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
WriterV ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 01:51:16 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
THing is though that they have a lot of customization both in appearance and functionality. Lore Wise though, you've got to pretend that you're just one of the commanders in your faction;s army bestowed with the artifact.
You gotta do a bit of RP, it's in the name man. xD About the best anyone can do for now.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 02:08:42 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
But "Everyone" doesn't have them.
In the game, you're a lone wolf champion. The other players are just regular folks, not super champions like yourself.
ZEAL92 ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 02:17:38 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Are we secretly nephalem? Because if so it's all coming together now.
but it's like that since forever. everyone was the one doing the important lore stuff in quests/dungeons/raids, everyone could get illidans weapons, everyone could get sulfaras etc. it just doesn't require that much grind anymore
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:10:42 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If you dont care lore wise why care at all when were all killing things for the same loot table.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:10:28 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I totally understand, but these guys aren't given an infinite amount of time to design game mechanics around you being truly unique.
If they drop that aspect of it, the game loses appeal because great stories don't involve 12 million people. It's a protagonist and antagonist and their journey. That just doesn't translate well in an MMO.
We require a suspension of disbelief for lore to work, and that suffers on the nexus in which we identify as the player or as our player.
stephangb ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 04:12:39 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I don't buy this argument, it's a fucking mmo, I don't care that "lorewise I'm a lone wolf champion or w/e", I care that everybody is running around with a fucking Ashbringer.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:22:41 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Of course it is, you're saying I'm "alone" in the world, but there is a shit ton of players around me at all times, lorewise doesn't matter if there's Bob who sells bread in Stormwind showing off his Doomhammer he just found in the dumpster the other day.
Well you eather get it locked behind the highest raid tier off the last boss so that only 1% of players will ever see it, hint that wont be you, or everyone gets it there is very little room for inbetween with how the current flow of the game is designed.
stephangb ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 04:46:52 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well you eather get it locked behind the highest raid tier off the last boss so that only 1% of players will ever see it
Did you care when every Paladin, Death Knight, and Warrior was running around with Gurthalak, or every Mage, Warlock, Priest and Balance Druid had the Staff of the Grand Imperator? Loot tables are shared by multiple classes, and weapons are no different. That's been the same way since the game was released.
What about Atiesh, or Dragonwrath? Seeing multiples of those didn't bother you? A weapon that literally contains the essence of a member of the Blue Dragonflight? How do you get multiples of those? Neither one of those weapons were owned by "evil" characters, and arguably Atiesh was owned by a hero (at least a netural character atoning for his possessed self's actions). The point remains the same though, especially with Atiesh.
It doesn't bother me as long as there are only a few players with those and I'm not the only one who has this opinion. It bothers me when literally everybody will run around Azeroth with a legendary weapon.
Atiesh was Medivh's weapon and Medivh died and his spirit's (?) been missing since forever now.
Medivh's not dead. He was killed by Khadgar, but then resurrected by his mother. He had his physical form in WC3. He disappears at the end of WC3 to "Take his place among the legends of the past", but not all of them are dead. We have no reason to assume he's dead any more than any missing hero. Also Khadgar's currently wielding Atiesh, and he's MU Khadgar. So there's an even bigger issue with that then Ashbringer, which has been confirmed to no longer being wielded by Tirion. Obviously this is all opinion, but I don't think it's as big of an issue as people are making it out to be. With all the customization options, transmog, etc., I think you'll see the same variety in weapons as we currently see.
Medivh's not dead. He was killed by Khadgar, but then resurrected by his mother. He had his physical form in WC3. He disappears at the end of WC3 to "Take his place among the legends of the past", but not all of them are dead. We have no reason to assume he's dead any more than any missing hero.
Isn't he some form of ghost in WC3?
Also Khadgar's currently wielding Atiesh, and he's MU Khadgar.
He wasn't in classic, when players could obtain Atiesh though.
Obviously this is all opinion, but I don't think it's as big of an issue as people are making it out to be.
Idk about others, but I simply don't like the idea. My interpretation of a mmo is that content shouldn't be available for every type of players, but to reward players who are dedicated to the game (just my opinion).
fockface ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 06:16:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Wow, if that's the case then Blizzard makes it really hard to suspend disbelief on that front. You can hit 100 and get decked out in epics pretty easily in a week these days with all of the shortcuts that the game provides. Shit just ain't like what it used to be. /oldmanrant
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:20:48 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Because people don't have half a year to invest in just leveling. The game adapts to the players as it goes on. However, the path is still there. It obviously works because... a decade later and it's still rockin'.
I thought that was a given.
fockface ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 06:50:20 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
a decade later and it's still rockin
If by rockin you mean that the game has been on a steady decline since Wrath then yeah. What I don't like about your argument and the current state of WoW though, is that it assumes that leveling isn't an important part of the game. The way Blizz has set up the game is that levels 1-99 mean basically nothing and that you should be raiding end game content by the first week. Then people get bored and complain that there isn't anything to do.
I personally would rather have a little bit of the grind back than to just be handed everything have my progression immediately be put on rails.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:31:50 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The formula hasn't changed, just the speed at which things are done.
I'm sure it'll be some multiple world's thing where the legion comes through brining soldiers with artifact weapons from the multitude of time lines they've slaughtered. We get a group of us to go take on that person, kill em, and we take the artifact weapon. Sure, everyone will have one, but considering they're the most powerful weapons, everyone will need one against The Legion. Then of course we hit 110 and unlock their full potential, allowing us to overpower Legion with the few, the proud, the PC's.
People have tried several different ways of mmo storytelling. The only one that really works is to have the player character as the one true hero of the story, and every other player characters as side mercs/less important champions.
There are basically two other schools of thought, the "player character doesn't matter" school where you just follow around a npc and help them out, and of course the "Every player is a hero" idea. That second one is very popular to try and discuss on forums, as it is the only one that is only possible in an mmo, and the argument is if you don't tell it that way why not just make a single player rpg instead. The problem with it is that it very quickly leads into the "If everyone's special, no one is" and ends up being the exact same as the player character doesn't matter in practice.
So while I kinda like your theory, I think the easier and quite frankly better storytelling is for the developers to just ignore that everyone has an artifact and pretend only you do.
fockface ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 06:28:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I just don't understand why they would do this. Were enough people really demanding that they be able to play with one of the most famous weapons in the entire game?
The most positive thing I see about this decision is people trying to defend it saying that it's not that bad. I rarely see people who are just overjoyed with this feature.
Game design is not design by committee. listening to players too much is actually a worse mistake then not listening to players at all.
Realistically, they are probably doing it to sell legion with the "sick weapons yo" tagline, but if they have a good idea for a set of stories they can do then it is a good idea even if there wasn't a single reaction better then "meh"
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:15:30 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
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fockface ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 06:32:37 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's a game of hand-outs now. If you say 'I want that', then Blizzard will make sure you can get it with relatively little work (when compared to how the game used to be at its peak).
will it really still be cool every time you see the millionth pally running around Dalaran with it?
Yes because I realize that is just a side effect of gameplay. I understand what the lore is going for and the story that Blizzard has chosen to go with also comes with the requirement of having every Ret Paladin get Ashbringer.
That understanding allows me to enjoy Ashbringer just fine. Weather 1 person or 10,000,000 people have it, its still the same exact weapon and wielding such a powerful weapon makes me feel like my character has progressed as far as I could ever hope him/her to do in the lore.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:06:53 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks for clarifying. I agree with you to an extent. I would have preferred that Blizzard just did the same thing with all the artifacts and just made up new significant weapons on the spot instead of taking the few very well known weapons and giving them to their respective classes.
As it sits right now, only 4 specs are getting weapons that have some connection with the lore and 1 of those specs is only getting a bullshit one off of said weapon. Every other spec feels like its getting short changed.
What the fuck is the Eagle Spear compared to the Ashbringer? What is Maw of the Damned compared to Doomhammer? Who the hell cares about Shei-Lun when Felo'melorn is in the hands of the guy next to you?
My personal biggest gripe.....why the fuck are Death Knights NOT getting Frostmourne?! Icebringer and Soulreaper are a slap in the face.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:26:36 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
And? Its getting reforged into 2 different swords. We've also personally reforged a runeblade ourselves and assisted in forging Shadowmourne.
Frostmourne being shattered is literally the weakest argument out there. Especially since Blizzard is essentially throwing the lore into the blender to get the artifact weapons into our hands in the first place.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:18:30 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Reforging it with some Saronite shouldn't be a problem. Besides, were already forging into something else, so we clearly have the capability to work with the metals present in Frostmourne.
Metzen has already stated Ner'zhul's story is done and Arthas's soul is currently in WoW's equivalent of Hell. Sylvanas saw him there when she killed herself in Icecrown. Those two are long gone.
lesnb ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:28:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
What's the difference between me and a friend both having ashbringer and me and a friend having Thunderfury blessed blade of the wind seeker they are both pretty special items and while I know thunderfury isn't as legendary as ashbringer it's still the same feeling if I see a guy walking around with the same weapon as me
True, but how many people do you actually see with it on? It's still a long process to get, even at 100. It's only for cosmetics if your max level.
Blizz is going similarly to how FFXIV is doing. In that game they have a "relic" weapon which is only unique to each class. It can be upgraded to have better stats and each upgrade also changes the colors,skin, and adds effects so it can make some unique since it is a PITA to upgrade.
Chrippin ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:12:53 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
There's an old comic I've tried to find but haven't seen in years. It's poorly drawn and used to circulate around 4chan in ~2007. Anyway, its comparing Everquest to WoW and pretty much goes "everquest: 'you have defeated the dragon and proven yourself a true hero of the ages, I bestow upon you the legendary sword of the dragon slayer' WoW: 'welcome to our town. here, take this sword.' And its the exact same poorly drawn glowing sword as the EQ one but now there are multiple people running around town with it.
They are all ret paladins and all chose the same skin for the weapon? Nah
smallz86 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:20:27 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Leave it r/wow to make a joke into a "wow is dead" thread.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:28:42 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well, we do have like 3 or 4 skins right ?
Enderbro ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:03:04 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Thing is, tank and healer pallys still won't have Ashbringer and so with the 36 different weapons that have another two more layers of customization, on top of the fact that you can still transmog it into something else means that seeing someone with the same weapon as you will be slim to none which is already the case with end-game raid weapons.
F0eniX ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 06:16:59 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I don't get the problem with everyone having the same weapon, all high tier players all have the exact same armor. My only problem is that we get it so early in the expansion
What you need to understand is that, in terms of the lore, YOUR CHARACTER has THE ASHBRINGER. This is because YOUR CHARACTER is now THE HERO. The other characters you see don't have THE ASHBRINGER and are not THE HERO.
Thing is, how many ret pallys are there really? This is probably going to be most prevalent with paladins, since most paladins have ret (making an assumption here) since I imagine very few paladins are holy/prot, not to mention the different versions/tints, and people transmogging it to something else, but for the rest of the classes, what is the ele/enc split for shamans? Sure, all enc shamans will have doomhammer, but just how many shamans are enc? I doubt it will be as bad as everyone is making it out to be. Of course, I could be wrong, we wont know until at the very least beta.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:25:48 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm gunna guess we get about treefitty more of these shit posts using ashbringer
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:29:21 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yea, I get you now. Sorry. Yea, that upsets me a little too. I am a frost DK, and would like to be able to use 2-hander as well as DW. It seems blizzard is defining each spec now. Certain weapons, and skills will define the spec.
Well if it's like the diablo transmog system i doubt we would have more choice than right now since you can't transmog a sword into a fist weapon in diablo either.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:58:51 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Now I have the image of Tirion dressed like Aladdin running around causing havoc in my head.
1 - Remember the machine from The Princess Bride? This game was like that, but set to 7; from vanilla until early Cataclysm. Hell, my old main had over 360 days played, and I had a full lineup of other maxed characters... which, I guess, isn't ...
philnoob ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:32:05 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Similar to lotro weapons
Gnivil ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:13:31 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You know, just by the thumbnail I knew exactly what the joke was.
Goodis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:41:28 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Lmfao
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:36:39 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You know in FFXIV we have relic weapons (Apparently it was like this in FFXI too), that start off in the xpac as pretty decent for a non-raid weapon, and every patch their ceiling rises and the amount of grinding and stuff you have to go through to upgrade also rises. However, in FFXIV at least, the relic weapons are always half a tier behind the best possible raid weapons. Only after the highest end raid has been out for a cycle do the relics get brought up to Best in Slot tier.
It works out really well in FFXIV, lots of casual players have access to not-terrible weapons. Players who are so mechanically inept they can never achieve more than 25% of their jobs possible output can still get them and be happy.
boudy567 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:58:40 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
FFXIV is awesome for their understanding of items. They make it important to get everything but have it balanced so at the time it is the best for you, but not the best for the whole game.
I think that blizzard might solve that issue the same way they did with the body guard follower you get from your faction hub in ashran: as an alliance player, your DK appears to you with his own name, voice... and other player's DKs appear to you as generic NPCs. So maybe you own artifact would be named and other people's would appear as a generic epic weapon.
radjono ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:18:34 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
HarvHR ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:54:24 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I have a question, as a Fury Warrior, to a just wield two 'unique' identical 2H swords?
Exactly why they didn't want to do this but people wanted it and wanted it and wanted it and now they're getting it and BIG SURPRISE PEOPLE DON'T LIKE IT
Basilion ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:17:38 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I used to play WoW, and doing those desert runs to get thise two swords to make one big sword was the coolest grind ever. It kind of makes me want to play again.
mooid ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:35:49 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I assumed it would be like named NPC characters on quests. When I quest with my husband, Durotan to me is named that, but my husband's "Durotan" is called "frost wolf warrior" or something on the tooltip. When you look at your artifact weapon it will be called its proper name. When you look at another, it will have a different name than yours, probably something generic. I hope that's how it works anyway.
you don't have to look forward to getting a new weapon
Leg__Day ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:33:28 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
But you can look forward to progression and enhancement of your artifact...there is no difference.
Everyone strives for BiS. Everyone strives for tier gear. Everyone ends up looking the same.
rayden202 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:17:22 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
except you have to work for the BiS and here you get it free regardless of whether you play or not
Yes it gains "power" as you go through the content but like I said, you already have it.
I guess it caters the very casuals who believe they are entitled to the BiS even if they only put in 1 hour per week and it's opinions, can't change it. Blizzard prefers that group more.
Leg__Day ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:27:46 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm expecting that the casuals who LFR will never get an equivalent artifact that Mythic raiders get, as far as progression and enhancement.
Culex66 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:05:37 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
There is the argument to be made that you, individually, are playing through the storyline, so it makes sense that "only you" have this artifact weapon. It's only when you add the fact that it is an MMO, and everyone else is playing through their individual storylines that everyone has it. Kind of like in SW:TOR, you were playing through your storylines as an individual player, even though every assassin had the same storylines.
I wonder if they'll do it like they do the garrison bodyguards, where you see the actual name of your bodyguard, but everyone else just sees a generic "mage". You would see Ashbringer, but everyone else would see just a generic sword (or maybe they could bring transmog into it, where you can select what weapon everyone else sees).
jebuz23 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:43:25 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
But mine will be green. and on fire.
TQueezy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:00:26 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Awesomesauce
craschnet ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:11:57 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
As a paladin, I hate the idea. I may look up to Lord Fording but I do not want to be him.
I wish they rather make all legendary item be like heirlooms. I hate they neuter legendary item in time-walking dungeons. My Shadowmourn is iLvl 160. It should be 284 with WotLK TW.
Mattarias ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:34:25 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Man, people can complain all they want, I'm hype as FUCK about Felo'melorn! I've wanted that sword for years!
None of the weapons we get are special. Nononeisaspecialsnowflake
MrLoque ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 08:52:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
There was a time when having certain weapons (or mounts) meant you actually achieved a milestone. You was one of the chosen, one of the few. One of those who other players admired in Stormwind.
Nowadays we've got 3409586 mounts, 34875639456 weapon models, 3985645625 moggable pieces of armor, 357642564 pets. Being able to notice something different, which stands out and shines in the darkness... is very hard.
ER_Ryuk ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 09:45:38 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Why? Cause you have to inspect the person to see what he has in what difficulty?
MrLoque ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:05:43 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I mean something different. As a casual player it was pretty cool when you could see someone "powerful" enough to have acquired a specific armor, mount or weapon.
Nowadays the game has so many combinations that you don't even notice it anymore.
ER_Ryuk ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:06:59 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Half true. Through transmoging you can't see who has what armor equiped, but some specific mounts still can make you stand out. For instance Blackhand's Ironhoof Destroy and Archimonde's Felsomethnig mount, both from mythic. Even now I don't see the BH mount so often.
MrLoque ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 10:14:34 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I honestly never notice anything. There is so much variety, so many colors and animations and stuff... in the end it all looks "nice".
ER_Ryuk ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:20:49 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yea, it looks nice. But you can still tell apart players who are playing at a high level. Be it mount, gear, and even guild name. So I don't think your initial statement is correct. Killing a certain boss or getting a certain mount is still a milestone, and other players can see it too.
For instance when I saw the first Invincible on my realm in Dalaran, I thought "That mount is freaking cool!", nowadays I still think so, obviously with less excitement because I see the mounts in patch notes/model viewer. You also have to bare in mind that information nowadays is much easier to get. Back up to wotlk I believe toothboth was the only website for WoW and such (I think it's called like that, or smth similar) so you couldn't even datamine or see a lot of these things as easily as you can now.
In legion all players will receive (as in part of the leveling process) an Artifact Weapon for their spec. Tied directly to the lore, ret pallys get ashbringer. Every singe red bull macro face-rolling idiot will get one of wow's most iconic weapons
IggyWon ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 07:01:46 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Oi.. That's unfortunate. Guess I bailed from this sinking ship at the right time.
anatem ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 08:12:54 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
5 years, sounds about right, that's after the ship hit the iceberg but before they noticed it was actually sinking
IggyWon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:25:37 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Remember the machine from The Princess Bride? This game was like that, but set to 7; from vanilla until early Cataclysm. Hell, my old main had over 360 days played, and I had a full lineup of other maxed characters... which, I guess, isn't that hard anymore, or so I've been told by people I know who still play. Glad I never relapsed.
To put it another way.. did you ever play C&C Genrals? Legendaries.. for everyone!
mspk7305 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:55:09 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You know I really wonder if this is going to be the last expansion for WoW (or at least marks the beginning of the end) and that is why they are giving out artifact weapons to everybody.
It just screams to me "we're winding down the updates so we want people to have these special weapons to fight with until they decide to leave."
Because otherwise where do you go from giving people THE ultimate weapon for their class?
I don't see the next expansion saying "hey we know you had Frostmourne for more than a year, but now its time to use a lvl 120 green."
And sure they could expand the skill tree on the weapon itself, but how long before that gets old, cumbersome and looks just like the old tree system they got rid of?
Muggin ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:37:35 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They have done it before. Why would they not do it again?
[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 02:18:25 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This is so fucking real. The concept of giving everyone a legendary weapon derived from lore is cool, but it just seems like such a desperate attempt for subs.
It also solves a lot of problems when it comes to balance - "well, bob doesn't get his weapon drop until the tier, so his dps is shit until then" - and gives them a good baseline for balancing specs. As it stands it can be difficult to balance a class that is under-performing at one point in progression because it can leave them way over-performing once they get actual gear; now everyone will have the same base weapon damage and effects to balance around.
And sure, there is a marketing angle with "you can wield Ashbringer!" but to reduce it to only that reason is a little unfair to the developers.
cyz0r ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 02:19:22 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
this is why legendary cloak and ring were lame af. nothing legendary about them everyone has them.
shane727 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:42:19 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
And this is why they're stupid. We're ALL going to wield legendary weapons? We're ALL going to be the leaders of our class garrison? Sure it works in lore but it makes all the players feel the same. It would be nice to get items that separate you from other players like it felt in vanilla and bc.
Every spec has their own weapons, and every weapon has a few different unlockable looks. That already makes it less likely that you'll bump into your doppelganger, but of course you can always transmog your weapon if that happens.
ER_Ryuk ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 10:24:37 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
1) They're not legendary.
2) You can customize it. You won't look like everyone else.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 05:11:29 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
No no no no some of us have lives and should get everything those who put hard work and effort in get!!! /s
shane727 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:27:06 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not saying it should take days to acquire. It should just make you feel accomplished is all.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:39:28 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It should be like Vanilla/BC where time and effort must be put in and not handed out like candy.
Dotbgm ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 10:43:47 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know if it's just me, but I think it's a huge mistake adding these Artifact weapons in the game.
I like the idea of the mechanics, how you level it and can modify it visually, like a very enhanced Gem system. But Artifacts is making each player just as "important" as being a "Garrison Commander." We're all special, therefore nobody is special.
I have never had a "special" item in the game, except for server's first Reins of the Raven lord at 70 - even so, I still believe the craziest, most powerful weapons should only be wielded by the most powerful player or somehow be a guild-connected item.
ER_Ryuk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:45:36 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You can customize it. And there will probably be more unlockable customization in the future.
Dotbgm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:55:37 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yes I know they can be customized, I even mentioned they can even be modified visually. (Read again) I don't have a problem with the customization of weapons; I just think using Artifact weapons like Ashbringer and Doomhammer is ridiculous as you have millions of players wielding them in the end, despite they're customized..
ER_Ryuk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:58:12 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
To be honest it's not different then it is now. You have people running around with the same raid weapons, only thing which is different is LFR and the difficulty colour.
If you look at it, it's actually the same. In Legion you'll improve your Artifact weapon stage by stage. People who don't have a lot of time or do LFR only won't improve their weapon as fast as HC/Mythic raiders (hopefully).
You'll just have 1 spec having "The Ashbringer" Just like the spec nowadays has a BiS weapon from HFC.
Dotbgm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:03:14 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The raid weapons don't have books written about them and pages full of lore either. That's the difference. Visually I don't care if people wear stuff that looks the same, but it's quite a downer reading "The Shattering" and other Wow books where some of the weapons are written about - and suddenly every single player gets one.
Also what's with the downvotes? Isn't my posts relevant to OP's post or what "Prot Warrior Expert" ?
ER_Ryuk ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:07:17 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Also what's with the downvotes? Isn't my posts relevant to OP's post or what "Prot Warrior Expert" ?
I don't care about downvotes. You're assuming it's me. Just because someone dosn't agree with your opinion and downvotes you doesn't mean it's the person who's commenting that he doesn't agree with you (if that makes sense).
I've also been downvoted without being given a reason, but I atleast comment when I disagree with someone or something said. So don't go off blaming me just because someone's downvoting you.
Also about the lore part, sure. I agree, except that a lot of people don't know anything about the item through the game. It was present in the DK starting zone and during ICC and the respective northerend zone.
Oh, and downvotes don't mean your post isn't relevant to a topic. It mostly means people don't like or disagree with what you said.
Edit: Oh, and I can't even see if you're downvoted or not (Score Hidden).
Dotbgm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:21:21 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not sure bout other subreddits; but it kinda says on r/Wow not to downvote stuff, unless it's irrelevant or just completely stupid lol.
Fair enough it just seemed to be perfect timing between our conversation - but it guess someone w/o a life is sticking to my feed right down and downvoting every valid argument or opinion I got. Which seems stupid as OP's post is exactly what results in these discussions.. and good discussions too _^
(Also I still think the DK starting zone is the best. The lore backing up every action, ability and move is amazing! You get your steed, while other classes just go over and buy them for next to no gold lol)
Despite it isn't really that bad xD I like the idea behind the weapons. I just think they should've made up some story for new weapons. Who
ER_Ryuk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:23:47 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
and downvoting every valid argument or opinion I got.
There was a period during the Tanking Threads when SoO was the current tier that people would downvote every tank giving advice to around -1 and -2 for no good reason. It was funny and sad at the same time.
Also I still think the DK starting zone is the best
Yea, I agree. It's really good. I hope they don't fuck up the DH starting zone.
Dotbgm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:38:39 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I doubt it. Even the Worgen and Goblin starting zones were pretty good and the leveling in Warlords. I think Blizzard has pretty much nailed the leveling experience so far... Which is way too quick for my taste, but yeah. I'll be leveling a DH, but only 2 levels. I hope the quests you can do during those 2 levels are awesome tho'
ER_Ryuk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:03:23 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Same. I'm rerolling DH so I will play them a lot during beta
Are you kidding? Nothing can excuse this sorry ass lame expansion thats killing this game
Korize ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:22:05 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Have you played it? do you know the story, the systems, the new builds, quests, areas, all of it?
If not, stop saying that it's killing the game, you - like the rest of us - have no idea.
You can say that You dont like it, I however do like it a lot. Really lookin forward to it!
I left the game just in time. This is the WoW equivalent of 'EVERY PLAYER GETS A TROPHY!' or "YOU ARE ALL SPECIAL LITTLE SNOWFLAKES.' I'll pass altogether and spent an extra $15 a month on beer or weed.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 07:22:52 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
On the main legion site they have a few examples. And some seem pretty cool, even though they don't have a previous lore about them (well not as prolific as ashbringer/doomhammer) what they have reveals seems pretty cool. I don't like all of them though and we'll just have to wait and see once every spec has representation for each weapon/variation.
For fire mages, you get to wield Prince Kael'thas' one hand sword, which is a really neat looking weapon.
The fact that there will be so many 'legendary' weapons (ie: everyone will have one) kind of breaks immersion for me.
It would be totally wicked if these weapons worked the way that Divine Rapier works on Dota2, & it dropped when you die, and looted by someone else.. allowing only one of each legendary weapon to exist on each server. People would get shitty that such a feature could only exist on a PvP realm though.
Conklayv ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 05:19:25 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Lemme just get the weapon and decide to never play again lel.
You'd have to be stupid to think there couldn't be ways around that. But who cares, lets have hundreds of thousands of legendary weapons which aren't actually legendary anymore.
Conklayv ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:14:01 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Whether or not you can create a perfect system to keep the weapon active, what could stop a casual player from getting the weapon over a dedicated, top 10 raider who would deserve, and use it, more?
Nothing, but how would a 'casual' player survive getting ganked by a top 10 raiding guild if they wanted it so much?
I'm not saying it's a great idea, I'm just trying to create discussion for alternative suggestions to absolutely every single player having a legendary weapon. Because at that point, they aren't legendary anymore, & it's lore-breaking.
ER_Ryuk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:34:21 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Nice arguement "it's done". Wow still has over 5 mil players. That's more people than certain countries have. Yea, it's not as glorious asit used to be during WOTLK, but it's far from "broken and down". Infact HFC had some of the best fights in a long time. Including one of the hardest and best end-boss designed so far. So please, quicha bitchin' will ye.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 04:07:31 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Not gonna lie I can't recall the last time I was so underwhelmed by a expac feature.
Oh joy I get a transmog gear and another menu to play in ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzz
ER_Ryuk ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 10:24:55 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Don't play than.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:31:21 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Why is this is the default response to any criticism? Have you enjoyed every feature and change ever released for WoW? Do you feel that only players who have absolutely no complaints whatsoever about the game should be the one's who play it? Are you suggesting that any criticism is invalid because a player has a choice whether or not they play the game?
Just what exactly are you trying to say here?
ER_Ryuk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:27:28 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Why is this is the default response to any criticism?
Sorry but what criticism? Are you serious? You didn't critique anything. You just said your own opinion and the 2nd sentence was some sarcastic bullcrap. What are YOU trying to say here?
You're not happy with the next expansion. Ok, fair enough. You don't have to play what you don't like, that's the obvious solution. You won't pay for something you're not gonna play either, so the obvious solution to your dissatisfactor is > Stop playing the game.
Have you enjoyed every feature and change ever released for WoW?
I don't remember any I didn't, except warriors being the worst tanks performance wise in the current content. But that's ONLY my experience, maybe some people don't have that. I'm pointing this out so you don't start nitpicking. It is MY experience.
Do you feel that only players who have absolutely no complaints whatsoever about the game should be the one's who play it?
Absolutely not. But your post was the exact thing what I'd call a "Moaning and bitching post with no feedback". You just stated you're underwhelmed, you didnt' state ANY positive factor which might interest you, nor did you critique ANYTHING. You just stated "I'm not happy", that's your comment in a nutshell.
Are you suggesting that any criticism is invalid because a player has a choice whether or not they play the game?
Your comment isn't criticism, it's moaning and bitching and complaining. Criticism would mean you'd criticise what things the expansion would bring. E.G "I don't like having a artifact weapons because of reasons A B and C. I don't like the Burning legion arriving because of reasons X Y and Z". Your comment is not criticism, it's complaining without any feedback.
Just what exactly are you trying to say here?
I'm trying to say the obvious. Not happy with a game? Nobody forces you to buy it or pay the sub.
How about this. What in the blue hell were you trying to critique with your stupid comment? The entire expansion? Artifact weapons? Because you criticised absolutely nothing.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:34:16 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
THIS GUY RUINED BIOSHOCK INFINITE FOR ME
Erakko ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 11:54:19 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Last shout from a dying game. Give artifact weapons for everybody.
Ugh..... before the announcement I was talking to my friends about how I wanted to be a ret paladin. I've been a priest so long as a healer I wanted to do something different, but a class that has another spec as either heals or tanking. Paladin filled all three, and I have an alt ret pally for pvp. So bam! Sounded great!
Since this announcement, and all the memes and bullshit about ashbringers makes me not want to play a ret pally. I'm not an old school lore nerd so I dont really want an ashbringer.
I'm thinking windwalker monk now. Could be fun, and has both my off-specs so noodle with.
I really wanted to play a ret paladin as my main :( The wings.... the utility.... I just dont want to be an ashbringer idiot.
pengalor ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:16:17 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
As someone who has played a hunter since late Wrath, fuck whatever other people will think about you, if you love the class then play it. Hell, if you play well then you'll often get praised for not falling into the stereotype.
so instead youre the kind of idiot that lets what other people do stop you from having your own fun? Cuz that's where it's at now.
99% of people in an expac end up using identical weapons, because now the weapon is especially awesome and guaranteed to look gorgeous and have a whole bucket of skins now is the time to be butthurt? really? now?
Monk is in my opinion the "best" class in the game since it's versatile and the gameplay is very different from other class it's refreshing.
Now as a lore nerd i can assure i'm not really excited by having Ashbringer all those legendary weapons i prefer when they are wielded by an important lore character, or in order for a player to actually wield one i like this way : So the big lore character died or just disappeared and the weapon is lost through time but the player can aquire it at the end of a long lore heavy quest line, kinda like the vanilla legendary but i would make them transmogable since the grind is quite a pain in the ass and not many people do them for this reason.
boodo330 ยท 700 points ยท Posted at 00:59:12 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm going to just assume the paladins went crazy and murdered a bunch of naaru, and used their dead bodies,to make ashbringers.
psyEDk ยท 129 points ยท Posted at 01:04:39 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Dead naaru what now??
Endurlay ยท 303 points ยท Posted at 01:18:13 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You should read up on what Ashbringer is made out of.
Manstus ยท 338 points ยท Posted at 01:32:06 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You mean soylent green is people?
Endurlay ยท 167 points ยท Posted at 01:36:12 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yup, and holy sword is naaru.
Stalgrim ยท 65 points ยท Posted at 02:20:56 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
...Then what's a Doomhammer...?
DarthHidious ยท 157 points ยท Posted at 02:22:43 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Sargeras pooh.
alberthere ยท 173 points ยท Posted at 03:15:37 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Oh bother...
Fitzzz ยท 104 points ยท Posted at 02:34:49 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Pooh?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:49:48 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
GMO Free?
OBrien ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 03:49:08 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's made of dead elementals
[deleted] ยท 106 points ยท Posted at 07:01:20 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
We are all made of dead elementals when you think about it.
Pugcitypugpugcity ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 08:42:43 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Back to your room Richmond Avenal
EnragedTurkey ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 13:55:06 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm going to laugh and upvote that and pretend I know who that is to sound smart.
Mandralan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:23:27 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Character from the IT Crowd.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Richmond+Avenal&sa=X&es_sm=93&biw=1920&bih=955&tbm=isch&imgil=o7-9WpqSuyg-XM%253A%253BXkLEoLIjtvqfOM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Ftheitcrowd.wikia.com%25252Fwiki%25252FRichmond_Avenal&source=iu&pf=m&fir=o7-9WpqSuyg-XM%253A%252CXkLEoLIjtvqfOM%252C_&usg=__I5K105a1bSS-sNDhgJublMlqhds%3D&ved=0CCcQyjdqFQoTCLir07-T6scCFUzQgAod5UEC5A&ei=v0DwVfjPCcyggwTlg4mgDg#imgrc=o7-9WpqSuyg-XM%3A&usg=__I5K105a1bSS-sNDhgJublMlqhds%3D
TheNittles ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:00:32 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Man, you really pulled a Redgren Grumbolt, didn't you?
Endurlay ยท 57 points ยท Posted at 05:00:49 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's a block of granite on a stick. It significance comes entirely from the history of its wielders.
warmwaterpenguin ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 08:42:06 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The Elements beg to differ
McKnotz ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 10:15:50 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah They changed the lore of doomhammer in WoD and comic strip I believe.
Tubzilla ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:02:56 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Blizzard changing the lore at random? That's never happened before!
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 11:01:08 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
FREE COMIC BOOK WOOO
trilobot ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 10:37:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Geologist here. If you look up close that hammer is uniformly grey. It's gotta be quartzite (limestone or even the famous Wallace sandstone would be just too soft).
walterhartwellblack ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 11:50:26 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I sincerely hope that
comes up at least once every dungeon run.
gonzagon ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 13:27:27 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If I don't spend at least an hour looking at the walls of deadmines each time I'm there, how could I call myself a geologist.
Hungerphange ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:39:06 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Whale biologist!
[deleted] ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 04:43:45 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
cronatos ยท 43 points ยท Posted at 06:10:26 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Ya know, I'm not disappointed at all. I love that the ultimate Orcish (not corrupt) weapon is a just a simple piece of killer utensil. Doomhammer just does work.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:25:18 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Rijonkulous ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 08:37:40 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Id assume through years of use by green jesus himself it is now much more than just a finely crafted weapon.
Cryptic_shadow ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 08:12:33 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
well therent arent very many ultimate weapons like the ashbringer, theres that lame orc wooden axe cenarius made but.... ashbringer> that piece of driftwood. And even then ashbringer is the ultimate weapon against undead and demons holy light ftw.
Dromar420 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 11:09:33 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I wouldnt exactly call the axe strong enough to put a scratch on Sargeris him self a peice of driftwood.
SmashingK ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:15:13 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Nothing lame about it. Apparently that wooden axe is the bees knees. May even rival ashbringer.
oakleysds ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:46:08 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The axe that slayed thousands of demons? The axe that met the might of the Burning Legion and held it back? The only weapon that has managed to hurt Sargeras, the Dark Titan, The Demon Lord, The Great Enemy of All Life, the axe that cut into his leg is lame? Don't disrespect the Axe of Cenarius and don't disrespect Broxigar the Red. Ashbringer is good and so is the Axe of Cenarius.
Cryptic_shadow ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:42:35 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
eh i guess im just an orc hater, blizzard making an orc an elvish hero i think is just messed up. It should have been a nightelf wielding any weapon of cenarius not an orc. especially since the orcs killed cenarius, just a low blow to night elfs, malfurion or tyrande could have killed millions with a weapon created by a demigod. Death to the invading orcs upon night elf lands !
draekia ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 07:14:25 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Thrall may very well have imbued it or something. It's all speculation until we know for sure, of course.
SmashingK ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:13:03 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Doomhammer's importance isn't down to the craftsmanship of the weapon but the prophecy it was tied to.
The prophecy is what gave it it's significance.
Cryptic_shadow ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:10:28 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
well its just rumor not confirmed, but... it makes so much sense. how the hell an orc got it? shrugs
Tacotuesdayftw ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 07:37:31 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Drinking mine right now, actually. People kinda taste like cake batter.
shoseki ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 07:54:34 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Purple. Soylent green is purple.
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 02:15:43 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Did they make it official with legion leak that Ashbringer is naaru?
To my knowledge it's been a big rumor but not represented as official lore.
Endurlay ยท 45 points ยท Posted at 04:59:06 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's not really JUST a rumor; it's been hinted at in game in the Durnholde Keep instance, and pretty reasonably explored in the Ashbringer comic, where we see Mograine claim the darkened shard from an Orc Warlock.
In addition, the in game model for the darkened shard, and the fragment of Mu'ru in Sunwell are the same.
At this point it's one of those plot points that's pretty universally accepted because of the existing evidence, but has never been explicitly confirmed by Blizzard. It would seem really weird if they stated the the core material of Ashbringer was something else.
SuperShake66652 ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 10:02:48 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
TBC also established that Naaru can be twisted into darkness or pure void energy. And a dev confirmed that Naaru could be returned to the Light with enough hope and Light, but still extremely rare. So if Ashbringer is just a piece of a Naaru, then it would make the purification scene make sense. Since they're living in some way, reverting the crystal would make it stay that way.
Also, with WoD, the Void Star was a Naaru. So therefore it's probably the source of the crystal that became Ashbringer in our timeline.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:12:10 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If that were the case then its funny because its a sort of a full circle kind of thing. Ner'zul was trying to use the Naaru that was made into the weapon that helped kill him in our timeline.
draekia ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 07:15:48 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I read on one of the lore guides that one of the lead writers confirmed it as a dead Nauru. Whatever that's worth.
McKnotz ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 10:17:59 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Darkened shard and nerzul storyline I see where they going with that now.
Hence it can be corrupted and so forth. Cleaver!
simjanes2k ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:28:56 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not a huge fan of the fact that official lore comes from comics.
Conflux ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:59:50 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Why? Official lore comes from books.
simjanes2k ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:45:27 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I used to be okay with that too. The first two trilogies were very good, and several other books early on.
Then a bit after Wrath came out, they did the Arthas book, which read like it was for teens or kids. After that, I previewed some before I bought and found similar stuff.
I dunno if they're all that way, I stopped buying them when they went "easier to access." Kinda like the game did, I guess.
Conflux ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:53:40 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well I don't think easier access is a bad thing, as long as its done right. Everyone should be able to see content and not have to learn a convoluted rotation to play and have fun.
I mean so was Harry Potter and it took the world by storm. I can understand not liking a writer, but only because something is an easier read then say The Autobiography of an Ex-Colored Man, doesn't make it bad.
Also I don't think comics are "easier to access". A lot of comics can have some crazy in depth stories like Maus, Watchmen, Invisibles, Etc.
simjanes2k ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:56:14 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I think you misunderstood my use of the word "access." That's the word that Blizz PR might use to describe their transition from normal novels to other medium, which I was using sarcastically.
In reality, the move was dumbing down content. Better for a younger demographic in the case of the books, and a different demo in the case of comics.
Both of which, ironically, make it much less interesting and "accessible" to any person in their 30s who has following Warcraft lore since before WoW.
edit: I also must say, in the case of Arthas, dumbing it down to "Young Adult" level did make it bad. I do not like plot spoon-fed or being beat over the head with a twist to make sure no one gets lost. They took away a lot of the interesting story ability and hooks with that move.
Conflux ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:24:05 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yes they decreased the difficulty of content, but gave a separate set of challenges and rewards for players doing harder content in Hard modes and Mythics.
Accessibility is a massive thing in the game industry right now. If your game isnโt accessible its going to be hard for people to enjoy it. Big players like Valve and Riot have done many steps to make sure their crazy complex games are more accessible. Creating normal mode and LFR was not a good move. I think they could use tuning, but it was a good move.
As someone who too has been following Warcraft since before WoW, I see no problem with making the stories and lore more accessible. The ancient war, dragon soul and the third war have parts that are just not important to the lore and all and make it convoluted and dumb. I really donโt mind when the medium is brought to a younger audience as it clears up a lot of lore.
The Emperor Shaohao and Warlords stories were simple and told magnificently in my opinion.
You seem more upset with the fact that the story is being told in a way that younger fans can follow along and still entertain and excite older audiences. There is no problem with this. There are tons of great shows that do this like Steven Universe, The Legend of Korra, and Gravity Falls are just a few to name.
Its not the style of writing persay, but the writing/writer that may have been unenjoyable for you with Arthas.
simjanes2k ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:33:02 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I know accessibility is important. Blizzard is hardly the first company to make missteps with it and frustrate the playerbase that made them huge in the first place.
If that's what they'd done, I'd be fine with it. They didn't.
No. There have been several examples since then that did the same thing. You're just not listening to me, instead trying to apply your own interpretation.
The styles aren't simply a matter of using smaller words or removing gratuitous violence or sex. It's a fundamental change in the way that details of a story are given. It's frustrating and a major turnoff in their case.
Look, Star Wars and Trek have both had TONS of books written in both styles. Plenty of books for teens are amazing (Harry Potter, Ender's Game, Redwall) and written very well. It can be done, but WoW books have not pulled off this trick.
Conflux ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:57:30 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm totally reading what you're saying, but your moving the goal post every time I go to talk about it.
First was you'd didn't like the accessibility, then you said it wasn't accessibility, but the writing (which is what I said). So I'll just ask what "details" were left out of Arthas, because they gave us a ton of things that didn't exist before like Varian and Arthas being friends and Arthas' mom and covered even the most pointless of things like the love triangle between Jaina, Arthas and kaelthas. Or was it the delivery of these details?
Natgeochan64 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 05:59:23 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I think he means that because the book reads like it was written for a potato. I think you knew that to but you're just white knighting the shit out of the books. But hey man, if you enjoy reading shit that isn't clever "Arthas" go for it man. But don't compare the clever wit of JK Rowling with Christie Golden...that broad cant hold a candle to JK man...Christie writes like shes fucking mentally deficient.
Conflux ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:14:17 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Actually I didn't know that because he started off saying he didn't like how comics were canon in lore, then said something dumb about it being written for kids, and when I asked what the problem with that was he finally then said something about the writing leaving out major details.
It wasn't me white knighting it was someone getting called out for having a poorly express opinion and not being able to communicate it. No where did I defend Golden or Arthas. I did say that the newer books make the lore more accessible than before.
I asked for him to clarify and not hide behind buzzwords that 3edgy. But seems like you're right up his alley too.
Natgeochan64 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 06:27:39 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Right up your ugly moms alley. Hows that for buzzwords?
Dromar420 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:11:38 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Its also linked in the way the BE pally describes the new sunwell after its made and Morgrains description of the power of the uncourupted sword being nearly the same with just different wording.
MrTastix ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:01:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Makes sense given the crystal they found was described as being the "living embodiment of shadow" and when cleansed it pretty much has power on really comparable to the Naaru.
I don't think they need to confirm it though. Not everything needs an explanation.
Manos_Of_Fate ยท 48 points ยท Posted at 02:41:39 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's canon. You can see them with the darkened crystal trying to purify it in Old Hilsbrad.
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 02:57:15 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Ah ok I thought it was just some random dark crystal, makes a lot more sense this way.
Cryptic_shadow ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:15:04 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
no its not canon, blizzard hasnt said anything, plus they just show one guy trying to destroy it but , then they find out it sucks in the light, And then they are like.... let see if we can purify it. which they do, there is no mention of naaru's.
Dimnos ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 08:55:40 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It doesn't take much effort to put two and two together when looking at a crystal of shadow energy that absorbs the light, which goes on to become the most powerful weapon against the undead, reducing them to ash. It hasn't been confirmed because it doesn't need to be.
Old Hillsbrad was added in TBC when the Naaru became a major focus, the introduction of the very origins of The Light. Big floating crystal beings that radiate with the Light and is later revealed can equally absorb and radiate with shadow with M'uru. This scene wasn't thrown in to Old Hillsbrad for shits and giggles. It was placed there so players can make the connection between the crystal artefact that absorbs both light and shadow and the Naaru, big floating crystals that absorb light and shadow.
CptSmackThat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:13:11 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's just a matter of not being explicitly stated, but I think your point of it being intuitive holds true enough. I think that one of the other things that is a bit confusing is that it was stated that any form of magic could change the flow of the crystals attunement. Naaru don't suddenly becoming frosty mages if hit with an ice lance, but it certainly was described in such a way that this crystal would absorb and become any form of magic. At least from what I recall.
Cryptic_shadow ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:54:11 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Until the devs and blizzard confirms ashbringer is a dead naru its not canon. We can say 2+2 =4, but blizzard can say 2+2=3.
I mean i tottaly think the ashbringer has a dead naruu in it but...it just isnt canon.
Dimnos ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:53:30 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Bruce Willis wasn't a ghost. He never actually said he'd died.
crustychicken ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:21:21 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Where the fuck is this? I've done that dungeon more times than I can recall and probably wouldn't want to admit anyway, and I don't ever recall seeing that.
Manos_Of_Fate ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 10:20:11 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Inside the Southshore inn, which there's not any reason to go near for the purposes of the dungeon. There's actually several recognizable NPCs there, including young Blanchy and non-lich Kel Thuzad.
crustychicken ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:45:04 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Ah, okay. I do remember them, just not the cleansing part of it. Thanks! I'll have to go check It out again after work. :)
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:26:27 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
There are still people who don't know how the weapon was made? Oh man...
chocobo606 ยท 70 points ยท Posted at 05:26:32 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You could just assume that, storywise, you are the only one with the Ashbringer, which allows for better storytelling when it centers on you. Similar to Garrisons, they seem to be going down the path of making you into a very central figure.
scrubbless ยท 162 points ยท Posted at 08:42:47 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
I really dislike the 'YOU ARE THE ONE NEO' approach they are pushing on us more recently.
In WoTLK we were refereed to as Champion and "Champions". That was fine, I felt like the elite of a vast army of MMO minions. You didn't have to dispell any belief that there were others out in the world doing similar deeds. In Cata Thrall refered to us as 'Hero' all the time, which is fine, you can be an adventurer and hero without being "the chosen one".
But this single "You are the only commander, you are the sole bearer of Ashbringer" is pushing it a bit far for my tastes. I liked being a mook in a vast army where in some story archs I excelled. Those quests as you leveled up, where they treated you as just another soldier, storming these epic threats with sheer determination and numbers.
I think Blizzard are pushing the single player experience a little too hard for me. Feels like they are going for a CoD experience, a quick single player to get you to learn the ropes, then instanced PvP and Raids for the end game.
I actually would like to get more grounded as a character, i'd like to fail for once. Have the bad guys win and advance. I can't think of many instances where this has happened outside of cut scenes...
Mnemon-TORreport ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:44:41 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If everybody is a special snowflake nobody is a special snowflake.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 10:41:17 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The thing is, out character has done a ridiculous number of world saving. That's why they're doing this. Our character IS all powerful. Our character has done fucking ridiculous things. To act like we're anything short of that would be ridiculous.
IHaveSpecialEyes ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 19:04:16 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Then why do people of lesser station keep bossing me around and sending me out to gut hyenas and pick up animal shit?
Motherfucker, I helped slay Arthas. I rode on the back of Deathwing and sent him to Hell. I charged through the Dark Portal next to Thrall and Khadgar and kicked Archimonde in the balls! Pick up your own damned animal shit. Hell, don't I have a garrison full of followers and soon an entire class hall of plebes I can hire out to you to pick up poop? Why are you tasking a hero such as myself with this menial labor?
Shit, those green leggings you're waving under my nose makes my epic pants look like cardboard.
...
Okay, where's the pooper scooper?
Solumn ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:14:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
its always good to stay huimble?
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:48:18 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This is kind of what I was thinking of when I said all that. I want these quests gone. Unless it involves cleanup after a fight or something, because I think a real down to earth hero would help.
scrubbless ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 11:18:02 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
No we haven't... We've been involved in a number of world saving things, sure.
Most of the massive things we have done have been backed up by huge armies and major characters. The reason you feel so powerful, is that you only see what you do.
Our characters can't go and solo current content, we are not all powerful.. we need a raid. The story doesn't ever point you out in the cinematic as the main victor, an NPC does all the dialog and takes the spot light.
We didn't shoot down Deathwing with the Dragon soul, we didn't shatter frostmoure, we didn't judge or sentance Garrosh... We were just there, doing out part (like the countless others).
From a story perspective, prevalent characters at the time engage the big bad with the support of an army and core elite of 'champions'.
I worry that with artifacts they will cross the line and make us the prevalent lore characters, which just won't work for the overarching story.
ChristianKS94 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:56:44 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You're so fucking right and it annoys the people who want a backrub and a coke and maybe a little bit of head from Blizzard for all the amazing stuff they've done.
Things such as helping Thrall kill Garrosh, helping Thrall and the Aspects kill Deathwing, helping Tirion kill Arthas and helping Maiev and Akama capture Illidan.
So they downvote you, because they wanna be so motherfucking special. They wanna be Sรปpรฉrpรกlรค the Lightbringer and they don't care if everyone else are the Lightbringer too.
NeatForever ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:40:36 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
There's only one lightbringer and it'll never be me. I hope to god they don't force Ashbringer into my hands, i'll be so upset. It's a slap in the face to this games lore and a slap in the face to all of the artifact weapon's prior wielders.
ChristianKS94 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:51:16 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
If you're a Ret pally you'll get Ashbringer, it'll also be the only weapon you get in Legion. Your only option is to transmog it to something else, but you'll still se seversl other players walking around with Ashbringers. You'll also have to be "the Penultimate Leader of Every Single Paladin on Azeroth", just like all other paladins in Legion, there's no way out of that.
People would have to be seriously self-sentered to be able to actually ignore all the other Lightbringers walking around with an Ashbringer and bossing over all other paladins.
scrubbless ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:26:18 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I hope there is a tick box that means I can turn other players Artifacts into 'generic weapon #1'. At the very least.
ChristianKS94 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:00:12 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Someone downvoted you for some reason.
Seems like a lot of people on here like the idea of walking around being the supreme leader of their class, regardless of the fact that everyone else around them are doing the same. But they're probably able and willing to completely ignore that fact.
scrubbless ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 09:00:22 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I kinda just feels like its going to be yet another factor that narrows the vastness of this sandbox world down to your individual character.
The more the story focus' on you, the more it will have to hide other people out in the world (or make them insignificant), so the very essence that makes the game an MMO.
Westy543 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:54:40 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You can always just transmog it to something else. Visual, sure, but it's better than constantly being bothered by your weapon.
ChristianKS94 ยท 54 points ยท Posted at 10:43:36 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Fuck yes, this is what I've been trying to say all along. I really dislike being put in a position as "the Leader" with a capital L.
I just wanna be a Champion, but now we're gonna be put in charge of Champions, we'll be given a crown and told "You're the King" then we're expected to somehow not notice that EVERYONE AROUND US ARE ALSO WEARING A CROWN.
It's simply bullshit, IMO.
Edit: To all of you motherfuckers who disagree with this. You guys just wanna be showered with loot and titles for past achievements. You don't want it to be a game anymore, you want it to be a celebration of you and your old deeds.
Legion isn't going to be a challenging but rewarding experience. It's going to be Blizzard giving you a handjob, blowjob and rimjob all at once while showering you in fine champagne, bringing you gifts of all sorts while smooth-talking you with titles like "Commander", "Hero", "the One and Only Lightbringer". And at the end, you won't even get to have an orgasm.
TL;DR: Calling us the "Supreme Leader of our Entire Fucking Class" is taking it all a bit too far.
Jumpbutton ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 12:33:14 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This has been a problem with MMOs from the start. It's just become much more pronounced recently. It's why I have a hard time trying to roleplay in MMOs. I find it hard to "believe" that I'm the hero that killed the evil spider terrorizing the town when I'm waiting in line for it to spawn watching it die by the hand of other heroes over and over.
It seems like blizzard has given up on pretending that there are other players in the world and just making everyone the lone hero.
ChristianKS94 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 12:47:56 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly.
lurkinguser ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 12:29:23 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Lothar, Champion of Stormwind. Later, leader of the alliance forces. It's natural progression. If you want to look at it from the "champion's" standpoint WotLK took, think of it as of those champions YOU are the one that got promoted.
That being said, I would love to lose a bit in Legion. I love feeling as if all my deeds have finally gone noticed and everything, but it's time to set my character backa few notches for the sake of the future.
evergreen2011 ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 13:43:34 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That would make sense...if you weren't surrounded by other people in exactly the same boat. In a single player game, sure, you can suspend disbelief like that. However, in an MMO it's just asking too much.
Especially, if you are sharing your special class home with everyone else from your class. Literally, everyone around you will have these super rare legendary weapons. That's not exactly epic.
ChristianKS94 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 13:47:54 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
So long as we stay champions and never get promoted to "Leader of Every Single Fucking Paladin in Azeroth".
sheephound ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:02:14 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You mean like what they're going to do in Legion?
ChristianKS94 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:21:20 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, exactly.
DigitalSoul247 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:24:17 on October 7, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Step aside, Tirion Fordring.
Make way for Durp, dwarven imbecile. Fearer of murlocs and taker of candles. He-who-dances-on-the-mailbox. One who has accomplished nothing of note thanks to the new level-100 boost.
Now the rightful wielder of Ashbringer. May the Light have mercy on our souls.
isosceles_kramer ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:53:51 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
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ChristianKS94 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:00:10 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
And that's how Blizzard shows that they've lost all their integrity.
isosceles_kramer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:15:38 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
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Bombkirby ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 13:06:30 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Ever since we killed Rag in Vanilla we can never be considered just a mortal "champion". We are something special. And it's better this way honestly. It'd be silly to be just a random champion who has defeated dozens of the most powerful forces on the planet without dying.
artyen ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:07:36 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Just as a nitpick (sorry to be "that guy"): We didn't kill Ragnaros in Vanilla. It was his avatar in the mortal realm. His full force and actual essence lived and operated out of the Firelands. When we defeated him, his avatar was destroyed and he was banished back to his home plane. We didn't fight his true full form until we went to his home base in the Firelands during Cata.
Johnny_96 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:07:18 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not sure what about these guys either. We're heroes. I'm not sure why someone would feel good being random <class> #344536546.
I'd imagine they play Human warriors too.
ChristianKS94 ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 13:10:05 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The words of someone who wants a handjob from Blizzard.
It's not a game anymore if you're just gonna get handed shit for your previous achievements. They're not presenting any kind of challenge to get the reward, they're just presenting the reward, and that reward is total and complete disregard for all other players.
Darbot ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:27:07 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm sorry, but you lost me with your childish rhetoric. I may not dig the being the leader character but holy shit your little tantrum there is pretty embarrassing.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:29:39 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You sound a little mad bro.
Don't stress it, being a leader is tough. Not everyone can handle the responsibility. No shame in it.
hungry-space-lizard ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:54:58 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
But some people like that, so now it's a bit of Blizzard having to strike a balance. I don't like being a nobody after so long.
ChristianKS94 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:42:59 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's not a game anymore if they just give you free shit because you helped kill Ragnaros 10 years ago.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 13:43:09 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
i just don't give a crap if they give everyone and their dog an ashbringer as long as the gameplay is interesting
ChristianKS94 ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 13:46:06 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Just continue to not give a crap, don't ever come here and tell us to shut up because you don't care.
And FYI, the problem isn't mainly the Ashbringers. The problem is that every single Paladin will be promoted to "Leader of Every Single Fucking Paladin on the Face of Azeroth".
And also the fact that Blizzard will give it to us all without having us face any kind of challenging encounter.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 13:47:56 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
shut up i don't care
ChristianKS94 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 13:52:48 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
h4h4 ur so funneh
Fuck off.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:09:55 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
maybe i just think that all this whining about how the guys who wrote the fucking lore you love so much are fucking it up makes the game worse
Natgeochan64 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 06:15:08 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Ya yer right. the problem is you're a fucking doofus.
Toastcleaner ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 13:27:21 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You paint blizzard to sound rather slaaneshi, what a picture
ChristianKS94 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:32:26 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If a slaaneshi is someone who'll give you meaningless gifts and disappointing handjobs for money, then yes.
Toastcleaner ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:37:59 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
replace money with soul and it's pretty accurate!
Dromar420 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 11:16:12 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You have to go back to single player games then because thats how mmos work we have always had this sort of thing with these big lore impacting weapons, for example Gorehowl, being used by multiple people all at one time it just never got focused on as much as it is right now. And dont even get me started on legendarys that only 1 of was ment to exist jesus do you even remember the number of people with warglaves running around in BC.
evergreen2011 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:02:44 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
There were more with super rare weapons over time, but they were never common. They required some real effort to obtain. Like it or not, you knew those people put some effort in.
As for how the story portrays your character, no, not every MMO sets you up as the one true hero. Off the top of my head, in LOTRO, Guild Wars 1 & 2, SWG, Lineage 1 & 2, and SWTOR you play an important/powerful character, but you are not the one true hero. In fact, it's most common to be a part of the world and not a leader in MMOs. I can't think of many single player rpgs where you aren't the main focus of the entire world.
While I'd agree there is no one correct way, I personally find being a powerful but somewhat normal member of the world to be far more immersive in the long run.
Dromar420 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:15:10 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I dont really feel eather way to me as long as the story of the world is good and develops well I can be immersed but there are a lot more people who want to be that special snowflake than dont. I personally will most likely be moging my frostmourn blades into my heroic hfc 1h blue fire sword as I dont like the astetic of it.
ChristianKS94 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:36:28 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Back then we weren't told that we were the penultimate motherfuckers of our entire class, that's the problem now. They're telling us that there are simply noone more badass than us, while at the same time we're gonna be asked to take down a bunch of fucking moose for Hemet Nesingwary.
TheExtremistModerate ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:10:19 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The problem is it doesn't make sense otherwise. Like, back in Vanilla? You were just a dude. You went around and helped people. But then you killed Ragnaros. Now you're not just some dude; you're a hero. What's more, you foil Nefarian and kil C'thun. Then you go to Outland as a hero and kill Illidan (well, kinda) and kill Kael'thas and Kil'fuckin'jaeden. Now you're not just a hero; you're a champion. Then you go to Northrend, destroy the Scarlet Onslaught, kill Malygos, and kill Arthas. Your renown grows even further. Then Ragnaros returns and Deathwing starts fucking shit. And you fuckin' kill Ragnaros and Deathwing. And then you set out to Pandaria and kill ancient demons, and eventually fight side by side with faction leaders as you kill Garrosh.
At this point, how does it make sense that your character is still some random champion of the Horde? You aren't a champion, you're the champion. So they make you a commander. And they you topple the Iron Horde and stop the Burning Legion.
Your character has killed demons, immortals, elemental Lords, fucking gods, for Thrall's sake. Canonically you have been there every step of the way. You are the most qualified to lead your faction. How could there be any choice otherwise?
ChristianKS94 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:15:45 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You're mistaken.
We didn't kill these villains on our own. We always did it with other champions, often with the help of greater champions like Thrall and Tirion.
Also, being a skilled fighter and a skilled leader are two VERY different things.
TheExtremistModerate ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:25:31 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
But it wasn't like it was the whole army. It's always "handful of champions" or something like that. You are the best of the best, canonically. It's why Arthas wanted to resurrect you and your raid as Death Knights. So if you're one of the best of the best, wouldn't it make sense that you'd be a frontrunner for head [your class here]?
ChristianKS94 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:06:17 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
There were more than one of each class in the raid against the Lich King. It was a raid of about 10-25 champions.
TheExtremistModerate ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:10:24 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That doesn't change anything about what I just said.
ChristianKS94 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:18:50 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It means that there are probably other Paladins in your raid who've done just as much as you, maybe even more.
TheExtremistModerate ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:20:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Except you then also kill Ragnaros again, and Deathwing. And canonically you are the only commander of the Horde forces in Draenor. You're the only one with a garrison, not any other Paladin.
ChristianKS94 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:49:19 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, that's where they took it the wrong direction. It's not fun to be the manager of a garrison. It's fun to fight.
Dubax ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 13:37:31 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You hit the nail on the head for precisely the reason I don't like WoW anymore. If I wanted to play a single player RPG, I'd just play Skyrim... but it feels like that's the direction Blizzard has been pushing it.
Being a part of something bigger is one of the main reasons I enjoyed this game so much in vanilla, TBC and Wrath. Since then it's been a steady decline, and the fact that every Paladin gets an Ashbringer is just the culmination of that philosophy.
Tankbot85 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:34:14 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
AQ event comes to mind. Something much bigger than i was. The entire server came together to get something done. Loved it.
S1212 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:21:29 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
makes sense really, they are adjusting the product away from the point where they could just throw more servers into the mix. They are facing the PLC death. They know this is not gonna last forever so instead of just pulling the plug they are adjusting so that they can lower costs and keep it going a bit more for the fans.
Pretty funny how like the PLC curve it actually looks.
Here
evergreen2011 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:27:49 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's a fallacy to say subs dropped because the game is old. The main argument I hear is that subs are dropping due to development decisions and content.
Ignore the age of the game, because graphically it actually looks really good. Focus more on us getting less content: fewer dungeons, long times for a raid tier, fewer cities, etc. We see classes becoming more similar to eachother (talents weren't perfect, but they were better than the current class customization options), and the role of the player and story/themes changing quickly.
Saying the game is going downhill due to subs declining/age is a strawman argument. WoWs age is irrelevant (if not a benefit), and the subs would be there if the content was. The WoD spike was proof that people are willing to come back.
scrubbless ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:26:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Coke Cola is old, its not declining. Its a false argument to say "Product is old its following PLC trends", the product is failing because of the lack of innovative and engaging additional.
If the product was following a PLC because people were losing appetite for the product, then it would not have seen a HUGE spike with WoD... People came back to WoD because they have been waiting for WoW to pick itself out of the gutter and get back to its roots, that potential audience came back when they thought that was happening, and quickly left when they realized it wasn't.
S1212 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:24:50 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You dont understand the PLC then. the "age" of a product doesn't define the PLC, The products stage define the products age. I played wow, during the TBC and quit shortly into the WOTLK time for me the game is dead, its not gonna get back to its former glory, i got memories and thats it. I still like to see what they do once in a while thats why i check reddit once in a while. but im not gonna start playing again. they cycled through a lot of people just like me, not really fans but played for a while but wont be coming back. my segment only applies once. and by their number it could look like it might be about that time where they are not really getting any new players in, at least a lot less then the people leaving. So in essence no, the age of the game doesn't matter. But it matters how long it's been on the market. The amoun of people that they can actually sell to is dwindling.
The WoD spike is not really proof of anything other than they can give a cheap thrill to a few people with an expansion. I've been one of those people a few times after i quit, but i never played the full month after launch, WoD got insane hype, it looked amazing and a lot of the people i know that played WOW and stopped pretty much all bought it. They were done within a month. except one dude, so in my limited populace we got arround 15% of stick. thats hardly impressive, and it seems they pissed off a lot of their actual fans. Not exactly a great business plan to piss of the loyal costummers to get a spike.
Odok ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:08:40 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with you. Forcing distinction onto players jumps the shark of the entire MMO genre, and flies in the fact of what made WoW appealing when it first launched: that you could now see this world from the eyes of the Grunt and Footman, after playing as the legendary heroes and commanders for so long. Itโs pretty critical to the social aspect for the exact reasons you described, and WoW has always been the most magical when the community elected its own champions and leaders, rather than Blizzard.
scrubbless ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:12:29 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You've captured the real sentiment of original WoW right there. There are very few player elected heroes now, I guess its because the pool of players is now global (not server instanced). The WoW heroes are youtube streamers these days, not people you meet in game and think "They look epic!".
TheLync ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:51:24 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
People hold WotLK to a high standard, but this last time I leveled, I actually read the quests. The NPCs are thrilled to have you enlist in the war against the Lich King because of your famed history in Outland. You are famous by WotLK. People just don't realize it because they didn't read the quests. It is only now that they are putting it in cut-scenes and cinematic, that people have taken notice.
roerd ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:43:47 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. There were always quests that make you do pretty unique stuff. This conflict in story telling where you do stuff which is meant to be unique lore-wise, while you can also witness many others do the same, is nothing new at all, and I think it's pretty ridiculous to start complaining about it at this point rather than just accepting it as the way the game works.
miikro ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:27:15 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
From what I understand, we're going to lose badly at the launch of Legion.
ChristianKS94 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 10:38:48 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
That's not us, that'll be Varian and Tirion and all those. Then we'll suddenly have to take their place, which is bullshit because there can't be a guild with three or four Lightbringers all being the supreme leader of Paladins.
Blizzard should never have gone down this route, they didn't have to and we didn't want them to.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 10:42:28 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I like it. Speak for yourself. Everyone on this subreddit assumes they're in with the majority, and we hate what Blizzard is doing. I'm cool with it. They're the ones making the game. I just play it, and enjoy it.
scrubbless ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 11:01:19 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Blizzard responds to feedback from the community, they also read reddit and twitter as much as the the official forums.
All though he uses sweeping statements like "we don't want them", he doesn't mean 'everyone'. He means people that share his opinion (a portion of the player base certainly does).
Don't be so naive as to say "They are the ones making the game. Just play the game, enjoy it" the reason that some people are speaking up is because they do play the game and they DON'T enjoy it as much as they used to.
Blizzard goes ham some times on community feedback, I think its valuable to give constructive feedback for a game that has been going for 10 years, so they can make a more informed decision.
I'd agree with you if it was a one off title, like your average solo player RPG. But WoW evolves and always will, why should we not help shape it?
scrubbless ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:53:11 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I think the Azeroth Artifact Monopolies commission should get involved.. that's too much power in one "individual's" hands.
Dromar420 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 11:13:37 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
We are there with them as the general of the army that stoped the new Iron Horde we are already sorta a big deal. To clarify they say we wake up on the beach after getting our asses handed to us that means we are there and fail as well.
ChristianKS94 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 12:32:55 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
We were never the Generals of any army. They said we were, but all we did was send out some schmucks to pick up gold and loot for us while we managed the production of various items at out Garrison.
There was never any kind of army coming from our Garrison. If that's what they were attempting to make it feel like, they've failed miserably.
FourteenFour ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:55:30 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
they are just trying to save on art, with one weapon per spec they won't have to spend time on cool drops. /s
ChristianKS94 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:02:13 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Don't get me wrong, the art for these weapons is really good. I just don't think everyone should be called the leader of whatever class they're playing. I'm fine with several paladins running around with various Ashbringers as long as they had to fight for it, but I'll never be fine with Blizzard naming them all "the Leader of Paladins".
miikro ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:40:33 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with that. The first thing I thought when I saw the artifacts is "great, stuck with ONE WEAPON for a whole xpac."
ChristianKS94 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:41:46 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
As a Frost DK, it annoys me that I won't be able to go 2h at all. I mean, I prefer DW, but it's really lame that 2h isn't even an option. The type of damage and the priorities of the rotations are pretty different.
Hydris ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:44:16 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Legendary quests were the same thing back in vanilla.
RockBlock ยท 62 points ยท Posted at 05:58:31 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
That is litterally how the game and MMOs in general work, and has always worked. You are a singular hero. Other players are essentially NPCs of lore.
No one else has an Ashbringer, only your paladin PC. Along with that no one else has any tier set either, your PC is the only one that's ever obtained that special armor from that boss's hideout. No one else ever obtained Sulfuras or Thunderfury, or any dungeon drop weapon like Armageddon either. In fact no other character has any of the items in the game you've ever obtained, including mundane quest rewards, except your character.
asterna ยท 83 points ยท Posted at 07:36:33 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
No? It's just how WoW works now after countless raids defeating world wide threats. There just comes a point where being a nameless random guy becomes ridiculous when every single person on Azeroth should know exactly who you are. Seriously it would be like if Earth had 20 world wars, and a single group of people saved the planet. You'd know every single one of them by name, they'd be beyond famous. Honestly at this point the players deserve to be the bloody faction leaders, they've done more for the planet than any current leader.
This however is not how the majority of MMOs worked before WoW was released. Most of those were rooted in d&d where you are just a random hero helping villages and a very small scale. Probably because it wasn't possible to create a world large enough for the player to be saving all of it. Eve has done it well where the universe is massive, but groups of players aren't really taking over the entire universe just large sections of it (in which they are region leaders because they literally own the space)
Dokandre ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 09:07:23 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Lore wise you could consider that different "random people" defeated the different bosses throughout the lore. The group of heroes that defeated arthas isnt necessarily the same group that defeated illidan.
Just my opinion though
peon47 ยท 41 points ยท Posted at 09:29:57 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This is why there are NPCs there for all the big fights. Why Maev is there for Illidan, why Thrall helps fight Deathwing and why Khadgar is there for the end of HFC.
These are the people who actually beat the bosses in Lore, with the help of "adventurers"
isosceles_kramer ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:03:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
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berriesthatburn ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:56:46 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
There's a difference between being a grunt and having the general take credit for the work of the entire army. Those players don't want it to be like irl military, but they also don't want to be the general.
Natgeochan64 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 06:17:37 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I do fuck the characters blizz created. They're boring. WOOOOO PC master race!
UVladBro ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:47:07 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That's why I've always liked the view of the world-first/server-first group being the actual ones that defeated those bosses.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 10:43:52 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Guild wars is similar to what he's saying. A lot of them are.
epetuss ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 08:15:24 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
yes. Name one mmo that's not like that?
asterna ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 08:27:23 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Eve, like I said in the post? SWG would probably count, until you got Jedi anyway. DAoC iirc was all RvRvR based, but I didn't play it much. L2 I would argue you are saving towns/cities rather than the planet, and most of the focus was on castles rather than raids when I played. Same with Legend of Mir 2/3, you are saving a city/region rather than the world. LotRO you are basically a random helper to the fellowship.
That enough for you?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:14:06 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
romeo_zulu ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:18:42 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You're pretty decidedly NOT the main character in Anarchy Online.
asterna ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:36:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I wasn't talking about scale, I was talking about the player being the central character.
As for some MMOs, yes there are lots but I was just mentioning ones I've played. The ones you listed were more American I think? Mir2 was really popular in the UK as it was run by a games TV network, so had a fair bit of advertising.
epetuss ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:51:40 on September 14, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
No
MrTastix ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:14:14 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone knew who Harry fucking Potter was before Harry Potter even knew himself, it's really not that groundbreaking. Most protagonists start as the nameless nobody. Hell lots of fucking movies begin that way, too.
Most singleplayer games defy this. Pretty much all of BioWare's games have you as a nobody who turns out to be the most powerful person in existence for whatever reason. Like, that's the entire point of most RPGs: The world revolves around you, the hero.
Even movies do this. See the Harry Potter example above but look to other fantasy tropes like Lord of the Rings, a story about a hafling who saves the world by traveling across it to dump a ring into an open volcano, surviving the heat only the fucking gods know how.
It's hard to say most MMOs didn't work like this when the amount of MMOs that were readily available could be counted on one hand and the ones that existed before WoW certainly did engage in the hero trope.
All of this is just being pedantic as shit, frankly. Many MMOs do work like singleplayer games because most MMOs don't give a crap for storyline to begin with. Games like EVE Online are the exception and still are by virtue of their entire gameplay.
RockBlock ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 07:49:46 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It has been how it's worked for any video game with a central story. At this point, due to so many game's basing things on WoW and related game, it is the genre staple. Blizzard, like everyone else, realized the only way to tell a substantial story, where the player is able to be part of it, is to be like a normal video game and make the player character a plot-involved, central character.
Eve has little to no intense character based story. It's not a story-based game it's a world based one. Eve doesn't have to do it as storytelling is irrelevant. It is also, and always will be, a niche freak in the MMO genre.
And on top of that being Rooted in D&D has no bearing on being a "random hero." I have played a LOT of D&D and traditionally your PC there also inevitably becomes the central powerful hero with all the artifacts as well. If there is a story the player is always at the centre of it, that's how a story works.
asterna ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:16:40 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair there has been a fair few mmos that aren't based on WoW, it's just they aren't AAA games which WoW players would be aware of. Personally I disagree that a substantial story requires the player to save the entire planet. The biggest issue is that WoW only gives us the combat aspect, there is no charisma based options. We can't talk our way out so we just kill everything instead. I'd say this totally undermines most stories, and is probably why people are starting to get bored of WoW style games. Really Eve is probably one of the few games where charisma does matter, but it's the players speaking to other players rather than to NPCs. Eve really does have story telling, but every players story is different. I'd argue that the story of an eve player starting out mining and working his way up through an indy corp all the way up to be a high ranking officer in an alliance. Only to be assassinated by a disgruntled member and loose billions of corp assets, leading to the downfall of the alliance. Versus a story where the player has literally no contribution as blizzard have already decided what happens.
Personally my favourite part of D&D is the whole trying to talk my way out of situations. Fighting should be the last resort! But then I'm from England so I probably have a very different outlook than in other countries.
Mnemon-TORreport ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:57:10 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Except hundreds of thousands of people have accomplished the same thing, so you're back to the whole "one of many."
Lets take the last expansion. If a few dozen folks ultimately killed Garrosh I'd be with you. But in reality hundreds if not thousands from each server killed him.
So a better example would be somebody who fought in a historic battle along side tons of others.
Z0di ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 07:21:38 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You mean I'm special?
noddwyd ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:18:37 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yes. Z0di is special. Yes.
McKnotz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 09:57:42 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
And so are you sir noddwyd.
Natgeochan64 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 06:18:21 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
And you as well McKnotz.
McKnotz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:10:57 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
i dont feel so special now
Megneous ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 11:05:42 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
No. That's how modern, casual MMOs work. Before WoW, MMOs were more sandbox, did not focus on YOU as the savior of the world, but as a citizen of a world including all the other players. Player economies ruled, rare items were actually rare, etc. Everquest, FFXI in its early years, and Eve Online are good examples of these sorts of traditional MMOs.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:11:46 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Ultima Online.
GudLmom ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:49:41 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Vanilla and tbc are still gold examples imo
TheSlinky ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 10:05:24 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
And all the Vanilla veterans collectively shed a tear.
Renguas ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 11:02:14 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Cringe
ChristianKS94 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 10:49:56 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Nope, that's bullshit. WoW doesn't have to be like that.
Also, there's a big difference between being honored as "Employee of the Year" and being put in the position of General Manager.
I don't wanna be the fucking manager.
IHaveSpecialEyes ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:06:10 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Fools! We're ALL general managers!
Natgeochan64 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:21:30 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Who cares? It's awesome to be the leader of everything? And to be the boss? Also I think you might be afraid of failure? Yes I'm going to finish everything I say with question marks? Because I feel like this is how you would talk in real life?
BFGfreak ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:33:38 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If I am the singular hero with nobody else like me, why can't I be a gnome paladin then?
Mnemon-TORreport ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:53:33 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Single player games? Yes. Most were very much rooted in you as THE hero who would save the world.
MMOs? That was one of the original selling points - you being just another player in a world full of people just like you. And the games tended to use more generic terms to refer to you ... Adventurer, Champion, Citizen, etc.
From there it was up to you to differentiate yourself from the masses - either through reputation or gear and weapons.
Kolz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:29:43 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
When I stepped off the Zeppelin in warsong hold I was just addressed as an outlands veteran, not the slayer of illidan and purifier of the sunwell. I preferred that :/
Golokopitenko ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 07:28:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
How are you going to keep with immersion when you can clearly see everyone has those items?
RockBlock ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 07:40:07 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
How have you dealt with immersion so far where everyone else already, visibly, has the same armor and weapons?
Golokopitenko ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:59:23 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I... eh...
Transmog?
Darrix728 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 08:47:10 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
And now you have answered your question above.
McKnotz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:04:12 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Can you transmog those legendary quest items?
It would theoretically be less immersive if you could transmog the weapons.
"Shaman i thought you would of brought the doomhammer to defeat me, not that beer mug"
Darrix728 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:41:29 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
According to what I read in article on Icy-Veins, you can transmog your artifact into normal weapon but not other way around. The other question is if they actually fulfill their promises.
Under Artifact section Article: http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/13199-wow-legion-details-at-gamescom-interview-with-tom-chilton-ion-hazzikostas/
McKnotz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:56:26 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks, That seems like it would break more immersion with the story thrn anything though.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:13:25 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Its just damage control really, targeted at the "but everyone is wearing the same weapon!" group and the "but I dont want to be forced to wear ashbringer!" group.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 07:39:42 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Mizzet ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:17:45 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Yeah, because these things are flexible. It's been 10 years and things are allowed to change a little.
Vanilla was certainly as you describe, at the very least it was much easier to rationalize things that way back then, mainly because back then WoW was also much more of a 'hard' simulation too. That's why reagents and ammo were things, or running on foot to dungeons.
Legendary weapons were literally legendary on your server instead of the model we have today, and obviously there were things like the AQ opening events that only nominated a single player. All these were pretty hostile to the "I'm the main character in everything" line of rationalization.
It was just a different time, and it's precisely a sign that the character narrative has changed that you won't see things like that today. It has become more of a soft simulation these days, starting with phasing technology, then Garrisons, and now artifact weapons, they're pushing the personal story a lot harder than before.
McKnotz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:11:55 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I think mmo in general are dieing now because the community is so informed.
We know what we need, where and how before the game comes out.
Our desire to spoil things is on our heads alone.
I still wish teir sets could only be gained by real raids.
Create a faction based Dungeon set (PvP style) for raid finders like me as a badge rewards for LFR and dungeons.
As new patches come we can only upgrade the gear.
isosceles_kramer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:32:23 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
This comment has been overwritten by an open source script to protect this user's privacy, and to help prevent doxxing and harassment.
McKnotz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:36:11 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
While I agree on alot of what your saying they need to reward people in those groups accordingly.
A casual player should be rewarded with story content and long chain quest gear like the old dungeon set 2 but work like PvP set.
You get a base set and as you get newer updated pieces it aesthetically just a improved version of you previous piece.
This would make the player connect with the story through grinding/questing. You could look at your helm and go I got that face plate piece for your helm from killing such and such after this quest.
The raiders should be rewarded with epic looking unique gear based off their raid aesthetics for their effort and their guilds get special rewards.
Raiders should get a sign of respect by casuals, I remember in early days if I saw a player in teir gear I would just follow them and look at the stats on their gear or the crazy mount they acquired.
This is what drives mmorpgs, the casual player hoping maybe in the next expansion they can get into a raid and be that "cool" too.
I remember the first day I got valor shoulder pads, it was amazing. I went to goldshire and posed all night as new players would randomly ask where i got it from or follow me.
Little did I know back then valor had shit Tanking stats but meh. :)
I'm really trying to say is that you need something to strive for, if everyone can get teir aesthetics in LFR then you are killing your "elite" players.
isosceles_kramer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:22:30 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
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RockBlock ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 07:53:56 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Gameplay is not equivalent to lore. Those players canonically never had "teir 3," and essentially never existed, no matter what your in-game experience was.
slurp_derp2 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 08:56:21 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
like .Hack /
fockface ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:41:53 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
fuck.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 07:48:09 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Quacktheducks ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:55:48 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
I feel better about it if I approach this game as a singleplayer RPG with multiplayer elements.
It's not that the game has never made use of the "personal story" method, but rather that it is now so heavily focused on that it's hard to maintain the immersion of being one amongst many.
It's strange, because the appeal of an MMO used to be that you were part of a bigger, living world. Nowadays, it seems that the majority of people prefer to be the ONE hero, even in the context of an MMORPG.
At this moment, it's clear that Blizzard no longer really cares about that type of immersion, something that I am not pleased about. I mean, not only is everyone of the same class going to be told that they are the leader of their class orders, they are also constantly going to be seeing each other in their class halls, high-fiving each other with their Chosen One weapons. It now makes more sense to see WoW as a Skyrim-esque RPG where the world is also a multiplayer lobby, rather than an actual world in which you coexist with others.
lurkinguser ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 12:26:39 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I don't really understand why this needs to be explained. Did everyone think there was more than one Thunderfury running around? The game is an MMO, but from an RPG standpoint YOU are the only one with X weapon/gear
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:39:51 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Depending on how thin you slice the Naaru, you could easily get a few hundred Ashbringers. Maybe thousands, depending on how big the Naaru is.
DrunkPaladin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:02:28 on December 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Shit he got us boys! quick call our secret master sargeras and tell him our cover was blown and Plan Z needs to be executed
dugrik2 ยท 338 points ยท Posted at 00:33:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
At least your class has lore.
๐๏ธ Orksrthebestest ยท 199 points ยท Posted at 00:58:32 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I actually play a Hunter. I have no clue what weapon we'll get. Going to assume it is a bow from the Windrunners.
Noonites ยท 119 points ยท Posted at 01:14:56 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Windrunner bow for MM, Eagle Spear for Survival, and some kind of gun for BM.
Yahmahah ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 04:24:33 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
BM gets a gun? That's disappointing
jake10684 ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 04:47:05 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I wish they'd let MM and BM choose between the gun and the bow. I personally really dislike guns, but I also really don't want to play MM.
nocendi ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:20:27 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They said you could transmog it, right? So just transmog the gun into the bow?
raspburry ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:41:26 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Fairly certain you cannot trasmog like that. It has to be a sword -> sword, axe -> axe, etc. Unless they changed it and I am not aware
CurReign ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 00:33:45 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They did change it.
Alkein ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 05:43:53 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Not many people remember this, but you can acquire every artifact for your class, and transmog it to the other artifact if you want, or into any other bow in the game if you dont want a gun.
SamuelGamer ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 06:44:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You can't transmog something to look like an artifact
Alkein ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:53:36 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well, you can't transmog non artifact items to look like an artifact, I haven't seen anything saying whether you can or can't transmog artifacts to look like another one. But even in that case there is plenty of other mogs to choose from.
jake10684 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:02:14 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I don't recall the part about acquiring the other artifacts for your class, you're right, but I do remember hearing you could transmog your artifact to other things. But I feel like that takes away a lot of the 'cool' aspect of modifying the look of the artifact. It's a solution, but not the ideal one.
Alkein ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 06:09:41 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You will be able to do the questlines to acquire each specs artifact. So you can obtain all three, although I think the upgrades you put into one won't carry over. But its meant to make it easier for people who play an offspec role.
Utecitec ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 12:31:55 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I think they said you could mog it into other weapons, but couldn't mog other weapons into it
Gnivil ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:17:24 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm relieved, in all honesty, I was worried that BM was going to be another example of "The most famous of this class/specc dies and you take his/her weapon".
๐๏ธ Orksrthebestest ยท 49 points ยท Posted at 01:15:39 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Hmm, wish there was a gun variation for each spec.
Alucard_draculA ยท 94 points ยท Posted at 01:40:47 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That would be pretty hard to pull off considering Survival is going to be melee in Legion.
Xiaz89 ยท 281 points ยท Posted at 01:47:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Here you go
๐๏ธ Orksrthebestest ยท 72 points ยท Posted at 02:00:34 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That is so beautiful.
pinkeyedwookiee ยท 40 points ยท Posted at 02:46:39 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If you're going to get killed it may as well be by a piece of art I guess.
berriesthatburn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:58:56 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Getting killed by a piece of art is equivalent to being beat in battle by a pampered Noble. I'd rather get my head crushed in by motherfuckin Gorehowl.
Devidose ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 03:10:54 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
So... this?
TheHeroicLionheart ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 03:11:12 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Gun-axe.
For kids.
[deleted] ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 03:43:26 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Practical and safe.
Hyperpoly ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 05:02:37 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Kniiife-wrench!
Lunux ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 03:49:21 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I was thinking of this
Runixo ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 06:17:42 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Or pretty much any weapon from RWBY.
kunasaki ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:33:36 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Waiting for this
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:17:36 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
So survival hunters are malninjas? Doesn't seem to far from reality.
TheDorkMan ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:12:43 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
"And My Gun!"
Johnny_96 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:11:32 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This works too
Xiaz89 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:34:17 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
/r/SpideyMeme is leaking
.
.
.
And I love it!
Johnny_96 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:11:32 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This works too
SnS_ ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 03:27:28 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Survival hunters get an ability to use their spear to pull mobs to them.
Can't wait for the add on that yells GET OVER HERE everytime you cast it.
jonneburger ยท 36 points ยท Posted at 04:26:38 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
EVERYONE. GET IN HERE
RsonW ยท 101 points ยท Posted at 04:46:03 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
hi every1 im new!!!!!!! holds up deaths bite my name is grim but u can call me t3h P4tr0n oF d00m!!!!!!!! lolโฆas u can see im very much getin in here!!!! thats why i came here, 2 meet ppl to pile on like me _โฆ im 5 mana (im good value 4 my cost tho!!) i like 2 count in on fites w/ my other grims (i summon other grims if i dont die from dmg if u dont like it deal w/it) its our favorite thing getin in here!!! bcuz itsSOOOOย much dmg!!!! they pilez on 2 of course but i want 2 meet more ppl to get in here=) like they say the more the merrier!!!! lolโฆneways i hope 2 make alot of freinds here so give me lots of commentses!!!! PIIIIIIIILE OOOOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <--- me getin in here again _^ heheโฆtoodles!!!!!
love and zerkers,
t3h P4tr0n oF d00m
SoldierHawk ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 05:46:23 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That...did you actually rewrite that?
Because holy fucking shit that was good.
RsonW ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 05:57:53 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, a few days ago.
Blood_magic ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 05:31:55 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
What the fuck did I just read?
Erodos ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 11:51:16 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
A combination of the Penguin of Doom copypasta and Grim Patron Hearthstone card.
jerslan ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 06:22:18 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I think it's a Hearthstone reference, but I'm not sure...
It could just be a jumble of nonsense generated by a bot that isn't anywhere near Turing-Complete....
OBrien ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:45:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well, uh, if you have to say "It could be a robot", then it's Turing-Complete.
frencc2 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:29:38 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Turing-Complete doesn't even have to do with AI. A computer is Turing-Complete if it can solve any problem an Infinite Tape Turing Machine can, which nothing is since it would require infinite memory.
You are thinking of the Turing test, which is unrelated to Turing Completeness.
jerslan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:07:46 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
One post is not enough data points to tell one way or the other, so it's still possible that it's generated text or a bot.
SinisterSintram ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:50:15 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Patron warrior is an obnoxious and dominant hearthstone deck hinging on leveraging one of two creatures, Frothing Berserker or Grim Patron with a bunch of enablers in order to oneshot the opponent.
Spiderhiryu ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:39:54 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
MY BLADE BE THIRSTY!
Spiderhiryu ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:37:37 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
A FIGHT? COUNT ME IN!
Suji_Rodah ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:35:17 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
HEY EVERYONE. GET IN HERE!
Is that what you meant?
blitzkrieg1337 ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 04:24:03 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This has existed since Death Knights came about.
reachfell ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 05:48:02 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah but now it's actually pulling someone with a spear in exactly the same fashion as Scorpion.
blitzkrieg1337 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:55:42 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well, you haven't actually seen it yet so that could change completely.
reachfell ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:13:20 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Given that Blizz has explained that they are being tight-lipped about a lot of expansion features because they want to make sure that they do whatever they say that they will do and the fact that MMO-C says, "Survival Hunters will get a Harpoon ability that allows them to throw a spear to pull mobs towards them," it seems like we know it as much as we can know stuff.
Realistically, though, given how petty you're being, I think you just came here to disagree with people. Go away.
blitzkrieg1337 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:52:30 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I haven't actually disagreed with anything. Just going off of 10 years of experience with blizzard.
Kynandra ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 05:20:41 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
OH GOD IT'S DEATH KNIGHTS ALL OVER AGAIN?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:24:22 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Alucard_draculA ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 02:26:47 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It was in the original announcement, I think, or was it an interview after? It was within a few days of the announcement anyways.
Manos_Of_Fate ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:43:22 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well, we were pretty sure after the initial announcement, because it included the artifact spear for hunters. They didn't specifically confirm that it meant survival was going to be melee until a couple of days later, though.
Emarelda ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:42:12 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Wait what?
1RedOne ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:29:33 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Jigga what?! Melee survivor?
Alucard_draculA ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:36:09 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Last we heard, Survival will be melee with a pet, Marksmen will be ranged with no pet, and beast master will basically be what it currently is.
Zelos ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:35:20 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Is that a joke, or an actual thing that's going to happen?
Cheqmate05 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 04:37:47 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Actual thing that was confirmed by blizz.
Zelos ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:41:27 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not sure how I feel about this.
Cheqmate05 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:49:49 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Not sure how to feel about it either, I love the diversity of it but I've always felt of the hunter as a "sniper-esque" class with ties to the wild, however I could see it working.
Blood_magic ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:32:55 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Nah, think Rexxar.
reachfell ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:49:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
But now they're the only class (that we know of) that can switch between melee and ranged. That'll be pretty nice for a fight or two maybe I guess? Yeah idk either. At least it validates the BC huntards.
nojdh ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:33:21 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Elemental and enhancement :)
reachfell ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:41:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I get it; I'm dumb; I'm so sorry T_T
nojdh ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:44:08 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Haha. No worries man. :)
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:30:28 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Druids have boomy/feral for ranged/melee.
reachfell ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:48:31 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
oh yeah, derp :X
purifico ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:40:36 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I love it. Only sissies use ranged weapons to hunt. Real men brawl with bears.
Iconochasm ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:32:31 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
New weapon type: Canonblade.
Roboticide ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:43:41 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Shotgun?
Nico777 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 06:48:57 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Squall's Gunblade please!
Holy crap that would be awesome.
skulledredditor ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:28:30 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They'll probably be transmoggable, maybe not the artifacts over other artifacts but there's plenty of guns to choose from and hopefully you can mog those over artifacts.
Deamia ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 01:44:36 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They are, there was a blue post about it. Artifacts are transmogable, but not the other way around.
McFondlebutt ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 05:33:43 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
BM should get one of Hemet Nesingwary's rifles, or maybe Don Santos has another even more famous hunting rifle.
Kolz ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:32:16 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Im sure flintlocke has a cannon on a stick waiting for you. It probably fires squirrels too.
McFondlebutt ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:34:07 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well, if that's the case I better dust off my hunter.
jerslan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:26:36 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Hemet's never been seen with a rifle that looks like the BM equivalent of Ashbringer or the Doomhammer IMHO.
Note: Just because we haven't seen it, does not mean that such a gun does not exist as a possession of his.
Cryptic_shadow ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 08:21:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
there is no such equivelent weapon, ashbringer in a league of its own. Most of these weapons are not going to be ashbringer legendary, more like... gorehowl legendary, still legendary but not super weapon legendary, just really fucking amazing legendary if that makes sense.
SEX_LIES_AUDIOTAPE ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:23:40 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's sort of a shame Gorehowl is already in the game. They could have done more with it than a random drop off Malchezaar. Still not sure how he even got it, but I've had some tinfoil theories in the past and I remain hypeful that they'll explain it.
jerslan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:38:36 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I think you meant to quote:
not:
Which makes no sense in this context :P
Cryptic_shadow ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:33:22 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
ya o.o whoops it was late and thought i had it haha :p
CurReign ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:35:35 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Nesingwary doesn't fit BM at all.
McFondlebutt ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:46:02 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Why not?
Phazushift ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:28:55 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
How about Big Game Hunter's gun?
Doritosiesta ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:47:41 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Do you have a source that MM is getting the Windrunner bow? apart from the legion website saying it turns you into a "master marksmen"
With marksmen losing pets it would make sense to give MM a gun and turn them into a kind of sniper rifle spec
Enderbro ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 03:58:30 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That gun model is by no means for sniping, it's a big ass cannon. Other than that I think the master marksman thing should be proof enough since it's also believed to be Alleria's bow who did not have a pet.
Doritosiesta ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:27:01 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Ooh did the gun model get released? Do you know where can I find it?
That's a good point though, going off the information it available I just assumed it wasn't enough proof, but that does make sense.
Westy543 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 04:41:25 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It was in the slideshow but didn't get a full reveal: http://i.imgur.com/C2ZUciB.png
xinxy ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 05:00:59 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Oh wow that's not even a gun. It's a goddamn bazooka.
dssurge ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:24:29 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Last time they had a gun like that in the game (see: Widebarrel Flintlock) it didn't have a custom bullet animation or sound effect, which made it feel really underwhelming.
The spear gun from BRF did shoot a spear however, even if it sounded like a bow when you fired it, so I have hope they might get it right this time.
OBrien ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:47:51 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It better be fucking safe to say that the customizable legendary weapon that the expansion will revolve around will have custom animations.
purifico ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:42:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Did you expect it to shoot woodchucks or something?
Dromar420 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:18:59 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That is also most likely one of the skins for it but yea will still have sorta the same general shape.
Doritosiesta ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:55:06 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If thats the final model, which I highly doubt, it looks a lot like a BM weapon, the horns seem to be connected to a skull shape with a purple eye and I don't think that would fit very well with MM.
But all the models we've seen that haven't been featured on the legion website will undoubtedly get changed or altered quite a bit.
Westy543 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:20:57 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They also may not have any skins finished for it; they showed off in the slideshow what looked to be Uther's hammer which would undoubtedly be for holy paladins, but no real follow up or confirmation.
Westy543 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 04:19:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
It's not guaranteed exactly, but it does say used by a famous Ranger General of Silvermoon. Considering they want to have a somewhat familiar lore basis for most of the artifacts, I can't think of any but the Windrunner sisters this they'd be talking about.
And it's called "Legacy of the Windrunners." It makes sense for MM, the rangers of silvermoon don't have pets accompany them into battle; the gun has tusks attached to it, which makes more sense for BM than MM.
Gnivil ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 09:19:30 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You mean besides being called 'Legacy of the Windrunners'?
VerticalEvent ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:30:34 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I think the weapon description on the legion site is a better sale:
Gnivil ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:38:53 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That's on the wowpedia page I linked to but yeah, it's fucking obvious that it's the Marksmanship weapon, and I'm honestly not sure if /u/Doritosiesta is an idiot or just incredibly pedantic.
Doritosiesta ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:27:16 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Look, I'm sure it is the MM weapon, I was only trying to create discussion. Blizzard have said things in the past that have turned out to be red herrings or just false information. It's not that big of a deal it was just a friendly conversation.
Reddit is one of the few places you can actually find people who want to discuss this stuff, so it's interesting to see what other people think.
Doritosiesta ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 11:44:23 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Are the Windrunner's specifically known as marksmen? Even that wikipedia page labels it as a Hunter artifact.
I mean, until we get a piece of information that says "this is the MM Hunter weapon and this is the BM Hunter weapon" we won't know for sure.
Gnivil ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:29:25 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The description on the official website is:
Besides this, we know already know the survival Hunter is melee, and High Elven Rangers never had pets in the past (certainly none of the Windrunners do), but were instead essentially long range archers. So yeah, we can safely assume it's a MM weapon.
Kallistrate ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:10:38 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Wait, is Marksman losing pets altogether or just using them situationally (like now)?
Doritosiesta ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 04:29:10 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
As far as I know Marksman is losing them altogether, BM will get a greater pet influence and Survival is getting totally remade. It's to create more disparity between the specs, which I totally understand.
Rhodeo ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 04:39:26 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Its about time too, so far all we had is "Explodey Black Shot," "I May as Well Play Mage," and "Team Piss Off the Tank."
Westy543 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 04:42:02 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Lol mages WISH they were us.
Grayscail ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 04:39:24 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
To clarify, Survival will still be using a pet. MM is the only spec where Lone Wolf will be baseline.
Doritosiesta ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 04:53:03 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yup, I'm so excited to see how survival plays in the Beta, hopefully I get access!
Vadernoso ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:32:10 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I do hope there is a Lone Wolf option for survival, I really dislike pets.
Kallistrate ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:15:14 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, that's so sad to me! MM has always been my favorite spec and (while I admit I don't use my pets all that often right now) I think it would have been a really different leveling experience if I hadn't had my favorite pets leveling along with me.
Given that you don't get Lone Wolf until pretty late in the process, I guess you pretty much have to level as BM now.
Doritosiesta ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:36:28 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well I can imagine MM's abilities will get a damage boost similar to Lone Wolf, as Lone Wolf would need to be removed and replaced with something, but hopefully exotic munitions becomes useful!, and if that is the case, you probably won't need to level as BM because you'll be one shotting everything as MM!
jerslan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:25:14 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Prior to the 6.2 nerf, I ran SV with Exotic Munition because of the splash damage for AOE fights and for the bonus serpent sting on single-target fights. It worked pretty well... as long as I remembered to switch off the splash damage when doing CC pulls....
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:49:37 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
My money says Nessingwary's Trusty Rifle or some shit like that.
lutherguy270 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:22:31 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I wonder if it'll be Hemet NEsingwary's elekk hunting gun?
VagrantWolf ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:01:06 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Probably a gun they make up to be like Hemet Nessingwary's original hunting rifle or something like that... He will have defended Ironforge from an onyxia raid or something of the sort. Some BS that hunter's won't be happy with. (Can you blame them?)
Thoras ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:51:53 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Survival not getting Rexxar's axes is a travesty imo.
SU7sin1o3 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:44:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe they will bring back something like Rhok'delar from vanilla. It was pretty fucking cool to have back then.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:48:20 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's okay, they'll make up random weapons that somehow fit into the lore as a big deal, that we just never heard of.
Th3Harbing3r ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:17:39 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Just thought of something. Since Survival hunters are gonna be melee now, could it be possible that Rexxar's axe(s) will be their artifact weapon(s)?
sudin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:27:47 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
What the hell, you mean Lok'delar isn't being made into an artifact?
forsakenvixen ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 06:34:12 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Huntard for life! ๐๐
BirthdayCookie ยท 58 points ยท Posted at 02:30:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
My theory is that they're going to make Anduin lose his shit for some reason, maybe Velen dying, and he'll go Shadow and attempt to wreck everything. Then Blizz will be like "Hey, Shadow Priests, you have representation nao!"
I will cry. But I will never stop playing Shadow Priest because I am that red-headed stepchild.
Scoob79 ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 04:08:34 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
A major Alliance lore character going crazy? Now I know you're just pulling shit out of your ass. That never happens.
BirthdayCookie ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 04:10:30 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know. It seemed to benefit Jaina. She's Fucking the Aspect of Magic now.
God_of_Illiteracy ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 05:50:25 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
At this point, who hasn't she had sex with?
datwo ยท 48 points ยท Posted at 11:59:11 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Kael'thas
Shisa4123 ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 13:44:57 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That ass was merely a set-back.
drysart ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:30:39 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
And he was so angry he couldn't get a ride on the town bicycle that he went and created the blood elves.
Good job, Jaina.
JealotGaming ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:29:29 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks, Jaina
GiftHulkInviteCode ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:13:10 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Burn!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1cMi4tqde4
YourShadowDani ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:29:43 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well she did cheat on him that one time...
jasonlotito ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:43:09 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Hey now! Leave Lady J alone!
Scoob79 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:13:33 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I was more or less pointing out how trite it would be by now.
BirthdayCookie ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 04:36:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'd take that over their current "let's plan a redemption arc for a character who doesn't actually need redemption but has to 'find it' anyway so we can feel justified in making everyone he saved stop shitting on him"
Sleepy_One ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:32:45 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
We alllllllllllmost got that with Jaina. Then they made her a little wuss again.
steelbot8000 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 07:39:50 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Poor Shadow Priests. At least you're represented in Bodyguard form!
KRAW.
Zeliek ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 03:08:56 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm having such an identity crisis lately. I've been staunchly shadow priest since I found myself at the end of Wrath (I had previously been Druid, then Paladin, then Warlock, then Death Knight, then Druid again, until finally becoming a Priest) but I just feel so useless and directionless lately. We're perpetually unbalanced, our talents are nonsense and cookie-cutter, and we have no identity. I've been playing all my old characters hoping they ignite some sort of spark in me, but I keep going back to my priest hoping things will improve. Maybe legion is our time? I mean...
Vampiric plague spreading spooky ghost old god void psychics? I don't even..
BirthdayCookie ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 03:24:21 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Can we go back to being a DoT class? That'd be great.
I also started playing my Priest towards the end of Wrath and I love her. Problem is the only time I've ever felt USEFUL was when all my great Shadow gear made for good Atonement healing gear and I could switch specs on the fly to off-heal.
Then they murdered Atonement so now I don't even have that going for me. Now I'm just meh DPS that loses points for needing to stand still so much.
Though I was momentarily useful when they brought Molten Core back. Mass Dispel for everyone!
Tomdaddy ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 04:59:02 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
SPriest, where your 1 spammable spell gets rid of your dots ._.
BirthdayCookie ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 05:07:08 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It almost feels like they thought we were too much Affliction Warlock-y so they tried to fix that and instead we morphed into wanna-be Destruction Locks.
Zeliek ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 04:58:47 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Its annoying our mega DoT, void entropy, is literally the worst spell in the game, meanwhile the talent that makes us not a dot class is by leaps and bounds the best choice, unless we have mass AoE than autistic spirits is the best.
Rrrraaaaaaqqqqqq
isosceles_kramer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:43:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
This comment has been overwritten by an open source script to protect this user's privacy, and to help prevent doxxing and harassment.
RedheadedReff ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:45:38 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Are most priests redheads? :/
BirthdayCookie ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:49:46 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a redhead sometimes.
Dimnos ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 09:02:14 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Anduin seems pretty much there to be the connection between Wrathion and the Alliance and Horde. He is also fulfilling the role of Jaina as a peaceful diplomat. Considering the way his character is written in both Tides of War and War Crimes, Anduin strikes me as the sort of character where even if Garrosh had murdered Varian in front of him, he'd still be a devout follower of The Light.
With that said, the idea of Anduin becoming a shadow priest and causing tensions within the Alliance as Varian struggles to rule while his son is going mental would be interesting to the story, rather than Anduin's current position, which is simply to keep Wrathion's connection to the Alliance relevant.
BirthdayCookie ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 09:24:31 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Definitely an idea but if what was hinted at with bringing Magni back actually happens (and I really hope it does) we've got parent/offspring tension already there. Moira's entire existence was setting up the kingdom for her kid. Combine that with the fact that she thinks her dad's a sexist daughter hater and wooooow, Dwarf drama!
Also another chance for Anduin to flout his mediator skills, if he can handle A) Being around Moira after she laughably failed to kidnap him and B) being in IF after his teenage hormones crush died near there.
TeTrodoToxin4 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:11:24 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
What do Rhonin's kids have to do with this?
Is Vereesa getting remarried that fast?
BirthdayCookie ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:20:43 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Don't give Blizz ideas. After the farce of a trial book Sylvanas has been one step away from batshit for awhile. Given that Vereesa was the big thing for her a wedding would be a perfect "ascension to evil" set-up.
TeTrodoToxin4 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:37:29 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You mean don't give Blizzard any ideas for a wedding ceremony involving the Widow of Rhonin the Red and their twins?
The wedding planner could be a Dwarf named Greg R. R. Martin
BirthdayCookie ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:45:51 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Complete with at least one comment about how the resulting massacre wasn't as red as Rhonin's fiery red hair?
TeTrodoToxin4 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:31:49 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yep, and before it happens this could play
Dealthagar ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:59:32 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Blizz has a Shadow priest rep. His name is Vol'jin. Maybe you heard of him?
BirthdayCookie ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:54:12 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
"Shadow" in the name does not automatically equal Shadow Priest.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:50:10 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's funny because your icon says priest, but I swear you're speaking for warriors.
Johnny_96 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 02:17:24 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
?
Final-Verdict ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 00:41:02 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Priests have quite a bit of lore.
Athrasie ยท 36 points ยท Posted at 00:43:51 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Most classes do. The least I'd have to say would be warriors and rogues and hunters. Simply because they exist in the world, and I haven't seen much about them aside from the rogues legendary quest
[deleted] ยท 57 points ยท Posted at 00:46:44 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm glad Thrall's leaving the picture a bit, because even with the Earthen Ring in Cataclysm I feel like our lore is "Thrall."
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 01:33:55 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Poor Nobundo. :(
[deleted] ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 01:56:56 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Nobundo is one of the best examples of shaman lore in game; my first character was a Draenei shaman (still playing him to this day as a troll), and I was proud to follow a Broken to explore a path chosen (lorewise) by very few.
GwenTheGreenKnight ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:28:13 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe Legion will give him some nice clothes. And maybe a new staff.
lutherguy270 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:28:36 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm wondering if elemental shammies will get a staff or something that belongs (belonged?) to Nobundo. Since enhance get Doomhammer, I couldn't think of any other shaman that had any other lore-worthy weapons...
PrayWithMe ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 01:37:45 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Gul'dan? Ner'zhul? Both were shamans at first.
[deleted] ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 01:42:50 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Our lore as told by World of Warcraft is much different from that of Paladins in World of Warcraft or Shamans in the Warcraft universe (older games, books, snippets of WoW).
Also while Gul'Dan and Ner'Zhul were shamans, their big history begins with converting (just as the Draenei shaman lore begins with their conversion from the Light/Naaru).
PrayWithMe ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 01:48:12 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, thought you meant Shammy lore in general, not just directly into WoW, my bad.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:52:42 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
No worries! The complete Shammy lore is awesome, not gonna argue that!
JealotGaming ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:33:19 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Ner'Zhul didn't suddenly become a Not-Shaman. He still used the Elements (albeit as a Dark Shaman, meaning that he forced the elements to do his bidding rather than asking for their aid) until his demise and eventual turning into a piece of armor lodged inside a giant icicle.
PrayWithMe ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:13:59 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well, Gul'Dan didn't become a warlock suddenly, either, but you get my point, haha.
Athrasie ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:58:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Hopefully he ends up underground. But yeah, I agree. I'll settle for anything without an Orc in it at this point
runefar ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 05:01:48 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
To me it seems it is often like "Thrall Good, Alliance Good, Horde Cool" Alliance often seems to be the focus of lore but Horde has the most interesting stuff
Therval ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 07:14:32 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
runefar ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:17:21 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
What I was trying to say is that the expansion often make Thrall the focus and the Horde seem good but as well that the alliance is the best organization in the world and is the good guys while the Horde is at fault for everything in the Universe. I personally hope multiple of the Events of Legion are gonna be caused by the Alliance instead of what is likely to happen another event is gonna be caused by the Horde
pinkeyedwookiee ยท 59 points ยท Posted at 02:47:35 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
We don't need lore, for we are a simple class. We get really mad and hit things really really hard.
Quackpants ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 03:39:01 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
We crush our enemies, see them driven before us! Hear the lamentations of their women! That is what's best in our lore!
TheKyleface ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 06:37:28 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Watching Sense8?
oathy ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 08:14:30 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
... or maybe Conan?
TheKyleface ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:20:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Have you seen Sense8? It quotes this exact line from Conan like 5 or 6 times... seemed relevant enough.
Roboticide ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 04:45:02 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly, I'm perfectly happy with whatever Vyrkul lore or whatever they were gonna give us. Those guys were fucking awesome.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:24:49 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Hm, I feel like they're just your generic Viking type... :/
BFGfreak ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:42:47 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I bask in the glow of the rising war, lay waste to the ground of the enemy shore, wade through the blood spilled on the floor, and if another one stands I'll kill some more.
I am a warrior and this is my song.
ginfish ยท 49 points ยท Posted at 04:14:02 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Warriors have no lore? W-what!?
Grom Hellscream
Brox the Red
Anduin Lothar
Varian Wrynn
Durotan
Garrosh Hellscream
Varok Saurfang
Blackhand
Kargath Bladefist
And i'm probably missing a shitload more. Is there another class that is more badassely represented in Warcraft? No.
metaldog ยท 35 points ยท Posted at 04:29:22 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Baine / Cairne Bloodhoof, Magni / Muradin Bronzebeard, Doomhammer
MrDTD ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 05:08:26 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
And they're a good 95% of the armies we see out in the field.
Maximelene ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 10:10:48 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Being represented doesn't equal "having lore".
HarvHR ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 12:52:51 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
A warrior is a foot soldier, one of thousands.. There isn't really a lot of lore to be had other than by the heroes who show their skill in combat more than the rest
It's not like we are in tune with the light, or elements, or wield deadly arcane or shadow magic. We just wack stuff to protect our allies and have fun doing it
Odok ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:27:35 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That may have been true back in Vanilla but at this point weโre believably at a much, much higher level than โguy with a sword.โ I want to see the class imbued with more Viking-hero, ancient samurai, โmundane mysticismโ types of lore. Tales of Arms warriors attaining such a heightened martial prowess that they can cut through any material as if it was air. Fury warriors that have reached such a level of physical perfection, channeling every strand of muscle and scrap of anger to a razor edge, that they can accomplish feats that should be impossible without the use of magic, lifting boulders and bashing through solid stone walls. Protection warriors with such heightened senses that they can dodge an arrow mid-flight, in full plate, and a willpower so mighty that they can just WILL themselves to live when any normal body would die.
Plus, what exactly is thunderclap? Shockwave? Ravager? What is even happening here with these abilities? There are too many warrior abilities that are just Rule of Cool handwaves. I want some lore and explanations behind them, dammit. Is thunderclap me smacking the ground so hard it makes a deafening wave? Or smacking my weapon against my shield? Am I swinging a weapon so fast itโs making a shockwave through the air? Literally the only warrior lore Iโve seen since the Vanilla stance quests is the post-Cata troll starting zone telling fresh warriors that the stun/root from charge is the target shitting themselves at the sight of you barreling down on them.
Maximelene ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 13:30:22 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
So you're confirming that the warriors don't have lore.
Yeah, maybe they don't need lore, but that would still be cool to have something more than "these people just wack stuff".
Insi6nia ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:34:26 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm cool with just being able to whack stuff really hard.
Dekklin ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:28:36 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Can confirm, main warrior, like whacking stuff. Also like choppy stuff, slicey stuff, and Smashy stuff. Rawr.
Prot warrior artifacts looks awful. Who gives a crap about some sword and shield made from a dragon scale. We've killed hundreds or thousands of dragons. And it's not even Deathwing's Adamantium plates that they're made out of. As an orc warrior, I kind of want gorehowl for Arms.
HarvHR ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:11:37 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I don't play prot, but I am hoping the re-skins of the shield are much better..
Purple just doesn't yell 'Strong Warrior!' to me, it yells 'Time is money, friend!'
isosceles_kramer ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:48:39 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
This comment has been overwritten by an open source script to protect this user's privacy, and to help prevent doxxing and harassment.
Maximelene ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:57:46 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That's a nice way to see it, yes.
ginfish ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:48:17 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They have the most bad ass of lore.
When Brox wounds Sargeras! The only mortal ever to do so!
When Varian Wrynn manages to fight in the Orcish arena!
When Anduin Lothar goes on to fight the Warchief 1 vs 1!
That's some serious planet crushing awesomeness
Maximelene ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 13:56:11 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That's not warrior's lore, that's warrior characters' lore. The feats of Lothar or Wrynn aren't "warrior feats", they are Varian and Lothar feats.
Athrasie ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 13:12:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Didn't mean no lore, I meant not much story behind their class. I'm well aware of most of the warrior lore figures. I meant only that there isn't much written about the class in general. And representation =/= lore
Yahmahah ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 04:27:10 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, Warriors are a little too ambiguous to really have special class lore. Especially when there's really no magic or otherworldly source behind their power.
atlas3121 ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 06:24:01 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
That's honestly what I love about warriors. There's no Light, no Elements, no Arcane power, no Demons. Just a character with a weapon and some truly breath-taking anger management issues.
Athrasie ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:14:53 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I agree. Was just answering a question lol
OBrien ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:55:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Hunters are even worse in their ambiguity IMO. In-Game they're an hodgepodge of Beast Masters, Shadow Hunters, Priestesses of Elune, Elven Rangers, Dark Rangers, and Riflemen. At this point nobody can say where their powers come from. Voodoo, Arcane, Shadow, The fucking Moon, just kind of all of it, plus magical traps from nowhere.
steelbot8000 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:41:35 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Do Hunters have any big lore figure heads, though? Warriors get both Garrosh AND Varian. What do Hunters get? Rexxar? He doesn't even use a bow or gun. Hemet would probably be a closer choice.
Viralsun ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 07:49:10 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Tyrande / sylvanas?
steelbot8000 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:02:27 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Ohh, Sylvanas, that's a good one. Isn't Tyrande more of a priest, though?
Dimnos ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:15:21 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Tyrande doesn't fit in to a single class within WoW. She's a Priestess of Elune, but also favours the bow as her weapon. Some characters just don't work when trying to fit them in to a single class, mostly because those characters came from before WoW and before the idea classes. She can be considered a hunter in the same sense that she is a ranger, which is essentially what a hunter is. Rexxar can also be considered a hunter, but with a far different approach than Tyrande. When trying to fit a major character in to a single class, it just doesn't work sometimes because classes are generalised and given themes in WoW for design purposes.
Dromar420 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 04:26:23 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The main problem people have is there is plenty of priest lore and almost no Shadow priest lore.
GreatMadWombat ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 06:49:15 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm still surprised that there wasn't a Blood Elf shadowpriest lore character growing out of the core of "Blood Elfs were originally redeemed by doing bad things to Mu'ru that Mu'ru was willing to accept"
"Oh, there's a being of light that speaks like broken glass? Let's tap into that broken-glass-pain-crazyness! aaaww yuss, that's the stuff!
Stomps about Northrend being all..morally dubious
RedSteckledElbermung ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:01:50 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I thought all the void stuff in WoD, and the stuff with the Arakkoa outcasts was shadow priesty.
Dromar420 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:36:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
True but that still doesnt tie into Shadow priest lore of our own its Arakkoa lore that is completely unrelated to our world.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:25:48 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
And all of the existing shadow Priest Lore is either Forsaken or Arakkoa.
_HaasGaming ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 01:34:10 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
None of it is centralized or strongly felt in the priest class, however. Priests are a mess, sadly. Their lore and feel for every ability is stripped from various different sources. Paladins, Shamans, Druids and Warlocks have a very strong sense of direction and you can feel the lore behind their class.
With a Troll Priest you're flinging around the exact same as Human Priests, Night Elf priests and Forsaken Priests do (also the whole holy magic used by forsaken priests deal is really just touched on in an unimpressive small amount). Despite the fact that they are drastically different. Hell, Shadow priests are hardly even justified at this point (like how they now use anything from vampiric plagues to ghosts and Old God-like tendrils - with only some slight old Cult of the Forgotten Shadow background). I really had hopes that WoD would add some more lore to it there with the whole shadowmoon clan death magic dealio, but alas.
It's a shame that the vanilla, race-specific priest abilities like Devouring Plague (Forsaken), Star Shards (Night Elf) or Hex of Weakness (Troll) had to make way for balance.
Which is also why I am a little peeved with the upcoming Paladin Order Hall (seeing as it hardly feels like Sunwalkers should have a place there) and no doubt the Priest Order Hall will bother me even more due to the extreme racial variety that priests should have.
[deleted] ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 02:38:01 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly they could bring back racial spells by making them all functionality the same, just different flavor.
DalekRy ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 03:33:40 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This would go against the whole point of normalizing classes.
I am in favor of the opposite. Each race brings something different to their classes and that ought to shine, but the additional work it takes to keep classes reasonably balanced every season/tier makes it a lot more work for developers than they (clearly) want to work on.
It is fun to think of the possibilities that lore-friendly race/class combinations could bring.
Some ideas I have come up with in the past:
Forsaken Priests: Unique animations for casting Holy spells. These could be variant of cower to show the character in agony.
Troll Druids: Loa forms.
Orc Shamans: Instead of becoming elemental ascendants, give them Ancestral Assistance. Similar effect, but your character kneels and you take control of a Spirit Orc that can then move independently. Just a flavor distinction but a small difference.
Holy Night Elf Priest: Post-death form change from Vrykul to Moon Goddess form.
And give every race a glyph to alter racial abilities to fuse with class.
Tauren Shaman: War Stomp becomes Earth Shatter. Stun and affected receive increased crit damage for 5 seconds.
Human Rogue: Every Man for Himself becomes Look Out for Number One. Breaks cc and drops you from combat or everyone drops you as their target.
Dwarf Priest/Paladin: Stoneskin becomes Lightskin. Additionally receive 15% of all incoming damage as healing.
Orc Warrior: Blood Rage becomes Fel Rage. Turn big and red, dealing 80% additional damage but becoming dazed for 3 seconds after the rage ends.
Night Elf Mage: Racial Invisibility now gains an optional blink once per use.
Night Elf Hunter: Racial Invisibility adds a stacking buff to your next spell/active ability. Max buff reached after 15 seconds.
Goblin Shaman: Rocket Jump and Totemic Projection are now fused.
Forsaken Death Knight: Cannibalize and Death Grip are now fused. Cannibalize will continue until its duration ends as normal or it is interrupted. The chain is replaced by an intestine.
NotWhatWeExpected ยท 45 points ยท Posted at 03:39:03 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Undead Warrior: Heroic Throw now has the warrior's arm attached to it as it flies.
Snuzz ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 03:47:48 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
How many millions of subscribers do they have to lose for you to get locks shouldn't fee like mages shouldn't feel like ele shamans, shouldn't feel like shadow priests? I think the opposite. They DO get this is not ok. As always, they have competing philosophies at Blizzard. Those "business" people that site undergraduate business cycles for their failing facebook ideas, and those gamers that get what works but don't have a voice.
Classes/races need a niche. WoW is boring as it stands. They flat out said they wanted to make classes feel more unique. Otherwise might as well just cut to the chase and make 4 classes.
DalekRy ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 05:17:41 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Me specifically? The guy talking about diversifying classes? None. Firstly, I'm just a single player, not a developer. Secondly, I think your reasoning at the start is poorly grounded.
Subscriptions soared when WoD released, despite the stat squish arriving in 6.0.
I don't think the bulk of sub losses were due to class homogenization for that evidence. Instead I found myself raid logging quite a bit this expansion because there just was not much to do that interested me.
Weekly stuff is finished within an hour for most players: 1-2 world bosses each patch, no need for dungeons after initial leveling, and as far as PvP goes no matter how cool Ashran is you will never hook non-PvPers into that content. Ashran is not an appealing option if you don't like fighting players.
And for those that want to gear up but don't/can't raid LFR is just a single afternoon.
Aside from a full hour on Tuesdays and weekend raids I spend roughly 15 minutes in the game on a given day and only because its the time needed to ensure I clear 30000g/month so the game is F2P.
So why do I keep subscribing?
I have enjoyed the raid fights. The work put into them definitely shows. But for the most part WoD's financial flop taught Blizzard:
Don't assume delight over updated/flashy imagery will outshine lack of content. No flying meant people got bored. Fast.
Do not roll out "major" patches without also giving actual content. 6.1 offered um uh...was it music boxes?
Do not invest a ton of time/resources into experimental new features. The Garrison was a great idea but it fizzled in the long run.
I'm doubling down on the previous point with Shipyards.
I agree with you. But practicality dictates that the more diversity required within the game, the more resources are also pulled in. I don't want just 4 extremely unique classes. A warlock and a mage should not feel or look the same. Classes are the backbone of the game and veering too far away from the original non-spec model was the first nail in that coffin.
Sure there were "necessary" talents and the cookie cutter builds that nearly all of us used, but on occasion there were some odd choices that worked out really well.
I am torn on one topic: ability bloat/reduction
We currently have 34 (and soon 36) specs in the game. Each plays a little differently with different spells. Some of those spells could totally overlap without sacrificing the uniqueness of various classes.
Example: Fireball.
Mages have Fireball/Frostfire Bolt. Shamans have Lava Burst. Warlocks have Incinerate/Soulfire.
They are all fairly similar. But the distinction comes in how the spell synergizes with the specialization. That's how you do unique. You take a basic ability that fits a general archetype and tweak it for each specific wielder.
Or for melee classes using a shield offensively. Warriors get a Shield Bash, and Paladins can chuck their shields. General Idea -> Unique Spin.
But it can't stop there, or you really do only have 4 archetypes with too little flavor between them. The Affliction Warlock is (or has been in the past) a great spin on casters. They still cast spells, but the effects are what set them apart. The spells do nothing initially, but the overwhelming damage increases to become overwhelming. The target dies of a thousand tiny cuts in the form of DoTs.
Blizzard has branched out and is not suffering for the sub losses. And the faster they pump out expansions the better it will be anyhow. The WoW token has added notable profit gains too. While players like myself aren't paying for the game, another player is paying $35 that month instead. 5 dollars a month increase isn't much on a small scale, but it adds up.
If only 5% of players are using wow tokens (out of roughly 5 million players)
250000 players would normally be $3,750,000/month But five extra bucks each adds up! $5,000,000/month
That is more than a million dollars a month more essentially covering more than 80,000 lost players.
It doesn't make up for the launch boom by a long shot, but it softens the blow. And don't forget the gift shop. I bet you know at least one person with a mount or a pet paid for with real money. One in twenty players has forked over a few extra bucks almost guaranteed.
Then look at Hearthstone, Heroes of the Storm, and the Diablo Real World Auction House.
WoW is still a big earner, certainly. But Blizzard is playing the long game. They have scrapped multiple games despite investing notable personnel to development.
Do I want the game to keep getting better and better? Sure. You bet I do. But realistically the expansions and extras have been padding sinking sub numbers for years and now Blizzard has expanded its portfolio, so I think WoW will stay supported with a couple more expacs, then it will be dropped.
Snuzz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:25:45 on September 13, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You make the argument that Blizzard had a huge influx of subscribers, simultaneously excusing them for a 5mil subscriber loss due to a token system that at release did not show an impact on revenue. My guess is their announcement of the expansion and promises to fix issues that people like me have been shaking their head at for a long time, urged people to resubscribe. I know I am the type that "prepares" for expansions.
The influx in player base at the expansion in no way shape or form proves Blizzard is doing a "good job." It instead goes to show you that the business cycle of an aging game was a fallacy and a huge amount of us out there still love Warcraft. What we don't love is Blizzard and the focus on introducing mini games and tepid content that leaves us wondering why would pay $15/month to do nothing that is fulfilling.
I want to clarify I actually do not think 4 classes is a good idea. I was being sarcastic. I think racial imbalances are fine as long as they are not ludicrous and other racials help to offset this and be creative. I think we both can agree they have not done a good job at this at all. I DO NOT think getting rid of racials is the answer. I think they should learn to balance, something for some reason they have never been good at doing. This is an MMO. Nothing in the game is necessary. It is all made up. What is fine is having options, diversity and choices. They have strayed from that horribly and I think the penalty has been that their 30+ options of classes/builds feels like 4. I actually agree that the old/big talent trees were better. There will always be a cookie cutter build, however, the old trees left options for creativity and diversity. It also gave designers options for balance. It also gives a leveler something to strive for as they progress and far more often then every 15 levels.
I am confused about your argument for not having anything to do (which I whole heartedly agree with) and you simultaneously saying having flying to get places faster and do things faster would help? This logic is what hurts the game. You want to counter being bored from doing things too easily and quickly by doing them more easily and quickly? Did you mean to say make things harder to accomplish and add flying? Otherwise you are talking out of both sides.
I also decided I hated questing this expansion. Rare mobs should be rare. The rare mobs spawn more frequently than rgular mobs leaving everyone scratching their head wondering what the point of putting them in was. I also like leveling diversity. I have to go through the same stupid zone over and over if I level. They can have two portions to the war story that lead you to different zones without damaging the incredible story they laid out.
This leads me to dungeons and raiding. I'll stop you with the PVP argument. They have always been horrible at it, no expansion excluded. I think they have a plan to fix it. We'll see if it works.
They need more dungeons with harder difficulty with new content. The hardmode dungeons this expansion were easier than the normal version. It was mind boggling. In general, I would prefer to see many dungeons with various levels of difficult and the same with raids. This I thought BC did exceptionally. They say they want you to see the content, but when the next tier is out the previous tier is dead immediately. That shouldn't happen.
In terms of class diversity and the resources it takes, this is a pve dungeon stomp MMO. Where the Hell are they spending their money other than on the entire point of their game? They have not been rewarded for putting facebook mini games in the games so why not stop wasting money on that and actually make their game good? This just sounds like horrible business management. Please to fire.
I really could care less about their other games. If you want to pose the argument WoW is ok being a massive waste of time/money/shit because they have other games, I guess the discussion has ended. I am not saying you're wrong. I am just saying that my only option in this case, is to stop caring and paying, which is exactly what a lot of their consumers have done. If that's my only recourse then I will continue to do just that. Why make any arguments for improving the game if you believe this? Either they care or they don't. I like to pretend that they do.
DalekRy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:43:48 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This is a long and well-reasoned response. I look forward to the subsequent discourse! My response is in multiple parts.
1/2
Well this is mostly right. The token certainly dampens the blow but I am not excusing anything. I think calling me a loyal Blizzard gamer would be fair for the most part, but I am not so enamored with the company that I won't look elsewhere for my entertainment. I don't play Starcraft and I won't start with the reasoning that WoW doesn't have day-to-day content that interests me. I can take my money elsewhere. But I think you summed it up better:
I do enjoy Hearthstone but that was a lucky break for me. I don't spend money on it. Alas, like you I play a game because that specific game attracts me.
That's straying outside of my intended statements. Any mention of finances was to show that Blizzard as a company is not suffering. Whether you interpreted that or misread and mistook for something I wrote really does not matter. My only point regarding finances is to show that Blizzard is still a thriving company. The implication I may have left out was that their revenue from branching out means that they can maintain a large staff, awesome tech, and continue supporting/improving/developing.
That is not to say that Blizzard has been doing a lot of editing with their retcons in WoW. It is not to say that I like finding WoD to be a barren wasteland.
I don't think that because Blizzard is branching out its revenue that they don't care about WoW. Heavy convention presence, a Movie, and multiple commercial teasers for WoD show that even a big company like Blizzard can be hit-or-miss in terms of game success.
WoD I think is more of a symptom than a cause, and here are a couple reasons:
Player Perspective: Many players are on to other things. If I were a broader genre gamer I may also have left for "greener pastures" and picked up expacs time-to-time. When you come back after a break the catch-up is pretty rough. In the /r/warcraftlore subreddit I see regular posts requesting lore "fill-me-in" posts because people fall behind.
In-Game System Changes: While I don't think ability reduction alone was a primary contributor, I will certainly acknowledge its presence. But that's only one of many things. Profession changes, currency removal/addition/alteration, inconsistent flying capabilities, inconsistent rewards across expansions...et cetera can be irritating. For those of us that keep up-to-date it isn't a big deal, but the come-and-go players find this unattractive.
Flying is an expected feature. There was a lot of unrest about that prior to WoD's release. I didn't personally mind it, but I thought adding it so late into the expansion as a feature was an odd choice.
And being an amateur poster on a gaming forum I think it is perfectly suitable or even responsible to compare and contrast the weights of my own opinions with the community as a whole.
Do I fly? Sure. Do I think flying works against the progress of the game? Definitely from a leveling perspective. My interest in WoW is almost entirely endgame. Getting to raids faster is super. As for PvP I can just queue.
But Blizzard clings to the leveling experience. I appreciate that they want to make the game attractive to more people. More money means (potentially) better tech and staff. And hopefully that means increased development.
As a long time WoW player I plan to continue playing. And I sincerely hope that the company does well and continues to invest success into WoW.
I ultimately think this comes down to semantics. Its an unfortunate choice of term. Changing the classification from "rare" to "named" or "unique" is not something that concerns me personally. Because
I am a doughy, studious academic in the real world. I would probably sprain a wrist wielding an axe, I can't do magic, and I certainly don't think rifling through pockets justifies mass murder. But in WoW I get to be a badass lightning-wielding Minotaur that slaughters monsters and humans alike. I am not even a mythic raider or 2400 PvPer. I like to do them both competitively but also at my leisure.
But my studious academic nature also appreciates the lore and a great deal of lore development within Warcraft's universe that is in the game(see below) is gathered not in raids, but out in the world. Until they come up with a better means of delivering lore in the game and simultaneously continuing to attract casual players that enjoy leveling I don't know a good fix.
Most of my alts just sit in the Town Halls slowly leveling via XP missions because level grinding is undesirable to me. And the low level guys I do have get motored around in the sidecar of a motorcycle because I throw resources at heirlooms to speed up that process.
(From above; feel free to skip this paragraph as it is at best tertiary to our conversation) A whole separate conversation but in brief: I dislike major lore developments being available only in external media when it costs extra. Admittedly this is partially because I am a cheapskate, but it is also because my reading interests lean toward the academic or at least more substantial literature.
DalekRy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:44:24 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Thread formatting, curse you! This is the 2nd of a 2-parter because holy crap did I write a lot! Please scroll down to the other part first (marked with 1/2)
2/2
By all means try : )
For being so detail-oriented in the rest of your analysis this is notably negligent. There are a lot of players that engage in PvP. The fix you refer to is the new PvP system overhaul which appears to be removing PvP gear from the game.
For PvPers this could mean obtaining gear from PvE sources which is for many extremely frustrating. It works to my advantage also being a raider, but pushing a point solely for my own benefit is irresponsible and I'm not going to do that.
Conversely, the new system will strongly favor PvPers in the long run. Late comers will find themselves outclassed by the ability tweaks of seasoned opponents.
And how could we fix this? Would removing racials or completely normalizing all stats work? Probably not, because the WoW community is accustomed to min/max, despite previous efforts to fix this.
PvP has a varied history. Some ability changes have made it less attractive to me this expansion, and more attractive to others. I take it PvP is not an aspect of the game for which you much care. And that's fine. As I used to say before the token, "its your $15/month."
But I tend to consider all sides. Just like with leveling its not my cup of tea. For my own personal interests I didn't care about the zone changes for Cataclysm, and I don't consider the PvP system terribly broken either.
But the changes made were done so with acknowledgement to the community. People asked or complained.
Now we agree. There ought to be more instances, and definitely more content that encourages recycling. I think it is unreasonable to demand 20 dungeons at launch, but 10 with a nice amount of variance would be really good.
Timewalking showed me a possible light at the end of this tunnel. The reward system can still use a lot of juggling, but throwing players of various higher levels back into old dungeons (and scaling us down) is a cool move. I think it might be favorable to make timewalking permanent, but allow all the way down to vanilla.
And there is another possibility. The queue system already shattered the lore-relevant aspect of dungeon crawls. Why not make queued instanced content cooperative? So what if your healer is a Troll and your tank a Dwarf? There is no immersion in Dungeon Finder as-is. Throw in a pile of achievements too.
While I stated previously that my reason for disliking leveling was due to an interest in endgame, I agree here as well. More options. But you must acknowledge too that design takes resources. I have a few options at the happy middle ground I would propose were it in my power (some may be mutually exclusive):
2 roads: much like the original talent system, you can follow one of a few "journeys" that ultimately unlock attractive rewards, but with the option to go the completionist route.
Bonus Objectives: Literally put them everywhere. Hell, make the XP scaling too. So I can get from 99 to 100 killing murlocs in a specific place in Westfall.
Scaling instances. Previously mentioned.
Scenarios: Also scaling. But lots of quick little adventures that do not require specific roles where you (or your party - yeah you can do them solo) accomplish a goal.
level Ups: Dungeons and scenarios should offer a level-up in addition to the xp they grant.
Attaboys: Rewards earned for completing specific functions, these are sort of like factions-within-factions. A horde leveler could complete all "military theme" quest chains for unique rewards. Or an alliance player could do the same for aiding a list of specific heroes.
in addition...some other perks:
Pay it Forward: Reaching max level on a character grants your account a boost token which can be applied to another character, making it also max level. Any character maxed using this perk will not receive an addtional boost token
Swift Learner: 500% leveling bonus token. Permanent. Can be applied to the character that earned it for future expansions or to a character of any level.
Booster Aura token: you and any group members receive a 100% XP boost. Could also contain additional thinks like movement speed increase in world content, buffs, etc. Would be stackable.
/u/DalekRy special: reach max level on a character. For each other character on your account pick one: an item from blizzard store upon reaching max level or instantly reach max level.
The latter is probably economically unrealistic but as someone that detests leveling personally it offers a reward to levelers and skips the grind for those seeking only in-game content.
My goal in proposing all of these is to appeal to the various interests of the community. As a collective community we fund a huge and amazing game that has both a history and a future. So banding together - even if it means not all of us get everything we want - ensures that we all get at least something.
Blizzard is big, but its not a limitless company. There are restraints; tech, staff, time, etc. that hinder us from having 20 raids each expac or 5 zones to choose each level.
They care. Regular support, new content, external media, conventions, advertisements, and community outreach prove this. I only think that WoD was not a success. But Blizzard is a huge successful company that can weather a bad expansion and learn from it.
I propose changes not because I think WoW sucks, but because I believe it is wonderful. For a brief part of my waking life I can break from being a nerd and placate my boredom with the power of the elements*!
*Or whatever your class preference.
I hope I cleared some things up and did not step heavily on your toes. You write and reason well enough that I would enjoy bouncing more ideas off of you in the future.
And totally check out /r/warcraftlore if you want to get really nerdy : )
GreatMadWombat ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:34:18 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm with you on the "new race/class specific animations". That bit's awesome.
That said? Realistically, for the race/class combo racials, the best case scenario is just "there are now cosmetic differences/additional animations for these specific racials, and then there is no variation in gamplay". They don't have the racials balanced as is, and there is a 0% chance that adding a pile of additional, unbalanced super-racials would positively add to the game.
Still 1000% behind you on new, cool animations though
DalekRy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:51:01 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Absolutely. Redesigning even just the names/icons/appearances of class spells is a significant overhaul.
Balance is a must for a game like WoW to maintain longevity, which is why so many racials have changed - and they have adjusted racials multiple times - but really, truly the solution is to drop them completely.
And from the get-go it may have been better to stick to general themes for each class. The lore has classes going all over the place in direct counter to game play.
Humans heal with the light, Taurens wield sun power, and Night Elves use moonlight. Forsaken also use The Light but oh boy does it hurt. Trolls use their Loa.
Night Elf and Tauren druids are identical excepting cosmetic form differences, but Trolls were given Loa reasons...
Orc shamans have been given some considerable attention in the Lore, and Tauren don't seem so far off Dwarves but Goblins can buy elemental aid from bargaining and Trolls have um Loa...
I respect that each culture has distinctions in WoW. Its beautiful that way that each race has its own origin and means of attempting to understand the world around it.
But when your hero chose a class with some semblance of spiritualism behind it, should they too not have embraced that new philosophy?
Shamans make pacts with the elements. Hell, we have seen the Elemental Lords. We know they exist and further we know that elementals can be contacted, summoned, etc. Elemental Shamanism is a confirmed truth.
Druids are the same way. We know that shapeshifting works, the Emerald Dream is real, Malorne and Cenarius exist...
A Troll Druid would thus recognize Malorne as a Loa. There is no need to complicate it. Just give Trolls Loa forms if you want them to still follow their quasi-vaudun ways. Or have them trully follow the Cenarion path.
Will I miss my War Stomp? You bet. It was never truly overpowered, but it was a minor advantage I always enjoyed, but I will get over it.
Cosmetic distinctions are the real solution. But that will never stop my imagination from exploring the possibilities that could exist if Blizzard had unlimited resources focused on WoW.
camobit ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 05:25:52 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I think everyone is agreeing that we'd like to see more racial art and animation distinctions, but IMO they should really scrap any racial abilities. I've lost enough friends who faction changed to human because of how OP their racial is in pvp. It shouldn't even be part of the conversation when you are deciding what race to play, it should be based on how you like the look, or the fantasy element of playing an elf or zombie or Minotaur... Not which race will give you the most success in pvp combat or in a certain type of encounter.
DalekRy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:03:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
"Lightning-Wielding Minotaur" is how I have always reffered to my shaman main. He's elemental and for the most part I have always avidly done PvP with him. I don't actively roleplay but I do enjoy considering his backstory and all motivations which is a combination of eat humans and burn the world down.
I adore the idea of each race having its own flavor, but in an MMO with competitive aspects balance is key. And they only way to really do that is to remove the combat-effective unique abilities.
lutherguy270 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:31:12 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It'd be cool if they could bring those racials back as minor glyphs or something.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:22:25 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The lore was in vanilla after AQ a priest went mad and found a way to harness his (CTHUN) power, you kill him in a cataclysm dungeon.
TCsnowdream ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 04:37:29 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Priests have shit lore. We have no class reps since Vol'jin and Tyrande are 'priests' in name only... The Naruu have boners for Paladins only and Velen2 got killed off. Meanwhile Velen1 is still stuck on goat island. And yea, we had things like benediction. But what stories and enriching lore do we really have?
The big thing is that WOW has tons of stories that deal with 'the light' but everything is always aimed at Paladins and everything pally. Rarely do Priests get mentioned. Yes, Anduin is crafting lore for us, but he's been silent for this whole Xpac and spent half of last Xpac, according to the books, KO'd by Garrosh.
I'd rather have Chi'ji give us some sweet sweet birdy love. But let's think of the last real significant Priest story Blizz threw at us...
we have Ham... The Priest that got his ass handed to him in the AB intro story. So I guess there's that...
Edit - or maybe our class rep will just be a bush. Thats all. Just a plain bush. I remember the dev's telling Priests to 'go hide in a bush' to make up for our crap CC and terrible escape mechanics back in Vanilla.
camobit ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 05:28:03 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It seems really likely that grown up anduin is going to be a key lore figure. Plus if Illidan is back, there will have to be Tyrande involvement. Legion could be interesting for priest lore.
Lunux ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:51:14 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I think the problem though is that priests don't exactly have many big characters to borrow weapons from. The only ones I know of are Anduin and Velen (and maybe Tyrande?), not really any really famous shadow priest out there.
drysart ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:36:09 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Archbishop Benedictus could have been perfect as a shadow priest when he went off the reservation; but even then they didn't make him a shadow priest ... he used twilight magic in his encounter, not shadow magic.
Shadow priests are really the lore the Blizzard forgot.
OBrien ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:58:34 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Shadow Priests seem somewhat likely to pull a weapon from an Old God source. It would be pretty fucking great if their intro quest to Legion involved going into Ahn'Kahet or Ahn'Qiraj, maybe into Ulduar.
TCsnowdream ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:30:13 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yea, Priests are so boned with the lore. And any priests of significance have either been killed, are 'priests' in name only (Vol'jin, Tyrande) or 'grow up' into Paladins. Ugh.
I bet our priest leader will be Ham.
Yea, that's right Blizz... I remember that.
holyshitamoly ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:22:02 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Aint Voljin a shadowhunter? Or do they have something in common?
SoldierHawk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:02:16 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
He is. Shadow Hunter, really, is a multiclass. It's a priest/rogue/hunter/warrior.
But according to Hearthstone, and to the descriptions of his spells in his book, Vol'jin is very much a priest--he uses Cascade specifically, does a resurrection, and casts obvious shadow magic in addition to fighting with his glaive and bow.
But, shadow hunters are before anything else, servants and conduits for the loa. So Priest+.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 06:43:11 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Looking at WoW for lore was your mistake. It's low-class drivel that appeals to 12 year olds.
Vakyoom ยท 159 points ยท Posted at 01:52:53 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Nefarian, Nefarian, he's our man. If he can't do it... GREAT!
musicchan ยท 43 points ยท Posted at 07:24:31 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Rickum Wrackum Rickum Ragon, stick that sword into that dragon!
PsychoSemantics ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:44:44 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
YOUU ssssstay out of this!
McKnotz ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 10:22:02 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Nepharian and arthas will always be my favourite villians of all time.
No enemies have such great stories like them especially arthas.
jonneburger ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:21:16 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Im assuming when blizz reads your comment next xpac will be "Scourge." ICC was merely a setback
McKnotz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:59:48 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Please no, arthas is dead. I always hoped he would redeam himself and the only person that could stop him was himself.
Or lead his armies against legion... Guess that's bolvars job now, or the inevitable bolvar replace sylvanas one day.
McKnotz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:45:33 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I really liked the idea of arthas and nerzul merged as one.
You have a shaman, paladin and death knight juggernaut.
They could of done so much with him, instead illidan is getting the treatment.
Arthas in a weakened state was more powerful than illidan.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:30:30 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Arthas story was well executed although a bit generic.
Nefarian is great, a real Magnificent Bastard
Galwither ยท 186 points ยท Posted at 02:12:44 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This is my Ashbringer, there are many like it, but this one is mine.
mazhoonies ยท 158 points ยท Posted at 04:04:25 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
this is my judgement, this is my seal. this is for damage, this is for heals.
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 15:57:52 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a little pally, short and stout
Here is my
hammerAshbringer, here is my mount.When I get in trouble, have no doubt,
I'll pop my bubble and hearth out!
Adapted from a version I often heard in trade during my tour of duty in BC. I still get cracked up.
tchnl ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:33:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I heard some vague other version of it:
I'm a paladin oh so proud!
And I got my mount for free!
Oh my God there comes the Horde!
Time to bubble and hearthstone and flee!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:38:44 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Heard that with "When I get in trouble I scream and shout"
Macehammer ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 10:52:16 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
What's that from again?
Snailic ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 11:52:33 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The Rifleman's Creed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgd2F2QNfEE
[deleted] ยท 75 points ยท Posted at 01:06:02 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I heard this guys voice while reading it and got hit with a wave of nostalgia.
CrazyStallion ยท 43 points ยท Posted at 02:25:09 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Jim Cummings. He's done the voices for a LOT of stuff
Bombkirby ยท 55 points ยท Posted at 02:45:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
He does Lorewalker Cho (fun fact)
Sorkijan ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 03:23:12 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Slowww dooownnn. Life is to be saaavored.
MrAidenator ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 05:02:17 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
We adventure together again! Although this time, things are much more dire.
Devidose ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 03:14:04 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Minsc! [And Boo!].
MrGraveRisen ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 06:05:55 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
plus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kI-FxbJ8g1k
steelbot8000 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:43:19 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Holy shit Eggman, you scary. Which iteration of Sonic was this?
nsgould ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:08:50 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The saturday morning cartoon version. The one with all the weird forest animals.
MrGraveRisen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:26:35 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You mean the comic accurate version :P
nsgould ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:56:39 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Unfortunately, yes. That is the one I mean.
MrGraveRisen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:58:30 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'll admit the early comics were a bit odd. but even before they hit issue 100 it really changed a lot into a much, much better comic. Actually really from 50 onward it was pretty great
nsgould ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:09:51 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I only ever read the first few as a kid. Worth going back?
MrGraveRisen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:24:28 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
same here man, I stopped around 100 and lost track of it all.
Enderbro ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 03:59:28 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Actually one of my favourite NPCs tbh.
FrankenFaust ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 02:37:59 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The Thunder King trailer was one of the best and his voice had a huge part in that.
Boomanchu ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 04:35:08 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I loved Lei Shen. I wish they had done a bit more with him. He didn't feel all that foreboding. Don't get me wrong, Isle of Thunder was great, and his personification was fantastic, but beyond the patch trailer I didn't really feel like he was a massive threat.
I love his lines though.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:28:17 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
He does the voice of Mr. Bumpy?! I loved that show!
0011002 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:14:43 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I have a signed Dark Wing Duck poster from him from when he was at Anthro Con.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:50:31 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Probably one of the best voices for Dr. Robotnik.
DarthToothbrush ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:48:08 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I heard a scotsman, for some unknowable reason.
Rilybear ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 01:51:09 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
one thousand and one demoknights
NyksWyldMynd ยท 53 points ยท Posted at 01:29:42 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I dunno about you guys, but I plan on transmogging the shit out of mine. I'll probably run around with the Ashbringer skin for a while, but I know eventually that I'll be looking through my void storage of collected goodies over the years and applying them as needed.
Pretty much like we all do now. The only difference is we won't have to worry about running around to find a new weapon, just working on the one we already have.
TheHeroicLionheart ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 03:19:30 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
THIS.
I dont get why more people are saying this. Its exactly what will happen. There will be a bunch who will keep it regular, sure, but there will be those who customize, and even more who xmog to something else.
Also... enough of this "everyone has ashbringer" shit, only 1/3 of one class with have ashbringers. There will be 12 classes with an average of 3 specs each with their own weapon. There will be TONNES of variation. Youre seeing more of Blackhand's mace now than you would ever see of the same ashbringer come Legion.
Steelmint ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:25:37 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Didnt somone do the maths on this a while a go? There'll be more unique artifact skins than unique weapon models in WoD iirc
TheHeroicLionheart ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:35:09 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair... Id say thats more about there not being a lot of unique models in wod in general. But the point still stands. If its fine now, itll be fine then. At least the artifacts will be better designs than horns and spikes strapped together with leather.
Rijonkulous ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:41:08 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Im probably going to make the best transmog around my relic itself. But eventually ill probably go back to I'm of my old favourites.
TheHeroicLionheart ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:57:33 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Sounds awesome. With the new xmog system i think a lot of people will be bouncing around cool looks. I really hope they make it account wide.
eyabear ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:44:46 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, honestly. How many people of the same class AND spec do you really see on a common basis? For most content the answer to that question is going to be rarely, if ever, and often only for short periods of time (five mans, leveling, raiding with 10-15 players). The most extreme situation I can think of is either raiding with 25-30 players, or derping around in the capital city/current content hub, where you'll have maybe 5 other matching class/spec combos around you at one time, tops. If 2 of those have their weapons transmogged, and 2 of them are using a different skin than you, that's all of one guy you have on your screen who is using the same weapon look as you. How is that any different than the current system in terms of immersion?
Mentalseppuku ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:13:17 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You're missing the class hubs that will be full on people all using the exact same weapons.
warstyle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:25:39 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
yes, but its 1 wep per spec so 3 weapons and with the different skins/colors. and you can transmog your artifact weapons too
Mentalseppuku ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:30:09 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
And a lot of people don't transmog or won't because they've got an artifact weapon. The claim was that you don't see your spec that often anyway, which is not true when there's going to be a hub for your class and a whole wing for your spec, and you're going to be spending a good bit of time in it as you level and once you hit max.
socalminstrel ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:10:33 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This is also the reason, IMO, why it would be fine to open up legendaries as transmog fodder. People won't all be running around with legendaries all the time. Maybe at first, but the novelty will wear off soon and people will get bored with the same old thing and want to use different looks and/or separate themselves from other people.
TheHeroicLionheart ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:33:25 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I think whats important with the legendaries is that they stay something difficult to achieve. Now that you can solo ulduar and molten core, many legedaries are easy respective to when they were introduced.
I would suggest something similar to the legendary cloak/ring questlines but with the final prize being the ability to make a legendary xmoggable.
[deleted] ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 04:06:27 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Besides, imo, Ashbringer is really ugly too so that adds onto even more people transmogging just because of that
Forever_Awkward ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 05:24:50 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I agree. No idea what the fascination behind Ashbringer is besides it being this big ol lore-heavy thing. Weapon's ugly and dumb-looking.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 05:48:57 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
I guess not many people agree with us, but between you and me (and the rest of Reddit), Ashbringer looks more like a toy or even somewhat like a candy sword, than a real paladin weapon. :/
Edit: Dudes, it's just our opinion. Y'all need Jesus.
doctorstrange06 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:05:06 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You monster.
NyksWyldMynd ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:13:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Ass - candy and Destroyer of Worlds!
rashandal ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:52:51 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
i would too if i'd play a paladin. that thing looks shit. like most artifacts
Dsh5 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:33:01 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
So many more Tirions are going to be running around
tonnix ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:06:10 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Until I find a weapon that looks hotter than The Black Hand (x2) that will forever be my xmog.
Darksoldierr ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:49:27 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Aye, Doomhammer looks terrible in my opinion, definitely not an enhance shaman looking weapon, so ye, first thing i will do with it is to transmog it
dactyif ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 06:05:27 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Arcanite reaper hoooooo!
steelbot8000 ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 07:48:42 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I just keep thinking that the Infinite Dragonflight is behind it somehow.
"How're there so many Ashbringers around?!"
"Infinite Dragonflight."
"But that doesn't explai--"
"Infinite Dragonflight!"
"...oh that makes sense now actually."
BioStef_ ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 03:54:40 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
everyone: eyyyyy yoo blizz whats with da fuckin lore its pretty rekt
blizz: like you want an ashbringer
everyone: what
blizz: take it or ill shove it down your throat
fockface ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 06:41:10 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously, where are all these people who were dying to use the Ashbringer before Legion?
RaccoNooB ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 09:05:27 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The point I think was that it would be a legendary weapon which not a lot of people would have access to. Sort of like the Blessed Blade of the Windseeker.
Now that it's being handed out like candy on Halloween there's nothing special about the weapon. It's essentially just another Blue quest reward.
But like others said, with variations and transmog you'll likely not ever see a standard Ashbringer. I always roll a minimalistic transmog. My priest is a farmer.
I digress. Basically Ashbringer isn't Asbringer. It's a cheap mass produced knock off in my eyes.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 08:49:33 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
sigh... "Did someone say [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker]?"
URF_reibeer ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:04:05 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
if blizzard made it like windfury people would cry that it's way too hard to get
RaccoNooB ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:44:51 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yupp. But that's honestly what they want. They want something that's hard to get so others "can't" get it. Not many consider that they themselves might not(probably not) get it.
The Ashbringer now in my eyes is nothing more than a normal quest reward. Go kill 12 bears: Congratz! Here your complimentary "legendary". But that's probably how I'll deal with it. Pretend it's not actually the real deal.
URF_reibeer ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:23:54 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
i'm willing to bet that more people would complain if it was as hard to get as windfury than they would the way it will be
KevinLee487 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:36:29 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Thats the logic of a selfish 6 year old. You only want it when nobody else can have it.
Its special because of its significance in lore. Its not just another random ass weapon that was picked up off of a goon in a dungeon or raid.
RaccoNooB ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:50:49 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You do realise what game this is, right? :P
KevinLee487 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:59:12 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
True. I shouldn't expect much from the general WoW population.
reanima ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:32:10 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It should have been something else really. We should be going out to gather the materials to forge a legendary of our own. Ashbringer is significant because blizzard makes it so, but if they put effort into making the process of making our own legendary feel epic, itll be just as significant.
thpthpthp ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 08:00:39 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You'd be naive to think that logic is exclusive to 6 year olds. The world runs on supply and demand, scarcity promotes value. And exclusivity is one of the biggest driving forces in any progression based game.
Also in lore the Ashbringer is a legendary weapon of which only one exists. Giving it to everyone contradicts the narrative and requires players to suspend their disbelief to a ridiculous extent.
KevinLee487 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:04:34 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If you can't manage to realize that its merely an effect of gameplay, perhaps you should go play a single player game where you can be the special snowflake you want?
thpthpthp ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:32:33 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You just stated that it's value is in it's lore significance, and now you're happy to throw that lore under the bus?
Furthermore is it so offensive to you for other people to have different opinions that you must resort to name calling? To quote yourself:
KevinLee487 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:02:05 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
How is lore being thrown under the bus? The weapon is going to be wielded by another extremely powerful Paladin. Thats all there is too it as far as the lore is concerned.
No, its a ridiculous sentiment to get bent out of shape because another player has the same item as you in a game where there are over 5 million other players.
If a player wants to have something that nobody else has, an MMO is not the game they should be playing.
Neghtasro ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:39:31 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
As long as Tirion doesn't die to give me my Ashbringer I will be the happiest person to ever stand off against an infinite tide of world-devouring demons.
lkymn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:06:56 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Plenty of people wanted ashbringer to be in the game, but once tirion used it to destroy frostmourne we thought it would be too significant in the lore to be obtainable.
nater255 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:19:48 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Been using my Ashbringer since vanilla :P
Mentalseppuku ยท 54 points ยท Posted at 01:53:27 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They should have two transmog slots.
The first slot transmogs the weapon. You see it and everyone else sees it.
The second transmogs the weapon only for everyone else. You will never see an artifact weapon in the hands of another player, you will only ever see it in your hands. The second slot allows you to select which weapon model everyone else will see.
That would cut this problem out, but it would also cut out seeing other classes wielding those weapons. Maybe you can see the artifact weapons of the people in your party.
pengalor ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 02:59:42 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Interesting idea, sort of similar to the bodyguards and how they are just a generic NPC when you see them with another player. I think the problem is it would probably be a nightmare to make work since you'd have to be receiving all the information from every other player of which weapon they choose for it to appear as. With the bodyguards they all just appear as the same generic NPC, if they just got a generic weapon model it would work but people would probably complain (and with good reason).
[deleted] ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 03:11:15 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It wouldn't really be any more information, since you are already receiving information on what every players weapon is. If you have the Ashbringer equipped the server would just send you the "second transmog slot" info instead of the normal weapon model info.
Lobreeze ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 03:07:29 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That isn't any different from how transmogging already works. It's trivial to send an id of the weapon for the client to render in its place.
serfmaa ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 05:55:08 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Trivial?
If transmogging works as "render shoulder as item ID #" I see absolutely no reason why it'd be "trivial" for these weapons, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say.
Maximelene ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:12:41 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Because it would be exactly the same. You would still only send "render weapon as item ID #". You'll never have more than one appearance to render for each item.
URF_reibeer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:07:10 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
basically the only difference would be that there would be a small part of code that decides whether to send id 1 or id 2 based on if the model is your own or of another player
serfmaa ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:21:13 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, exactly. Client sees his own while others see something else, that isn't something that would be trivial to do.
URF_reibeer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:18:36 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
yes it is trivial. for the program there would only be a slight adjustment
it's literally just a few lines of code that consists of very basic programing elements because the important and complex parts are already done, you just have to give them a different information based on an easily checkable thing
Lobreeze ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:46:16 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You are misunderstanding.
Mentalseppuku ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 03:05:20 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
It would likely be a bitch to code, but it wouldn't be any more information to receive since you're already getting that information now.
Although, they could create some basic weapons to replace those artifact weapons. Then they could use a different skin for all of those to match the weapon skin you're using, so a flaming ashbringer makes all over basic weapons be a bit flamier.
Edit: -6 and zero comments, there isn't even anything worth downvoting in this post.
Duese ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 18:55:16 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Or they could just not hand everyone some of the most important weapons in the entirety of the warcraft lore and avoid the whole problem in the first place.
They are already making up new lore for half the classes already, why the hell did they have to create this problem for the rest?
Karthok ยท 61 points ยท Posted at 00:43:46 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This is the point where I'm finally sick of "EVERYONE HAS AN ASHBRINGER" posts. A clever post, so I'll upvote, but it's an overused post.
๐๏ธ Orksrthebestest ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 00:59:47 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Ha, sorry about that. Would have made it a lot sooner if not for the many distractions in life.
SoapScumChampion ยท 46 points ยท Posted at 02:58:18 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You can't let life get in the way of karma
jackthebeanstalk ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 11:17:16 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That's deep.
URF_reibeer ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:09:36 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
actually it's shallow and sad imo
McFondlebutt ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 05:36:41 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The only problem with the 'Everyone is Ashbringer' comments is that the logic behind it is shoddy. Not everyone plays a paladin, not every paladin plays ret, not every ret paladin will have the same Ashbringer, not every ret paladin will have the Ashbringer un-transmogged. People are so concerned about everyone having Ashbringer that they're forgetting about the other 30+ significant weapons and subsequent variations.
doctorstrange06 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:04:32 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You mean there is another class besides Paladin?
fockface ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 06:10:49 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That logic isn't shoddy. It's not about feeling unique as a player, it's about the lore. It's like if they gave everybody the one ring to rule them all in Lord of the Rings online. It just trivializes something that used to be a significant piece of the story.
It's not that everyone has one, it's the fact that more than one can even exist.
McFondlebutt ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 07:30:22 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Nobody seems to care that everyone has a copy of Blackhand's hammer.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:20:46 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
People are sort of glazing over the fact that everyone is using the same crap anyways.
Imo Blizz should just make a lore excuse like Multiple Ashbringers were forged from the shards of the original one. So everyone is running around with a blade made from a piece of the Ashbringer. At least then they would have an excuse for giving it to everyone. Rather then "I see you have the Ashbringer... As do I."
morgoth95 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:01:21 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
not everyone has one just the ones that can use 2H maces
McFondlebutt ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:46:26 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That's sort of my point.
Duese ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:04:21 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The reason why no one cares about that is because of the importance of the weapon in the lore. We know that there is only one ashbringer. We know that there is only one doomhammer. We know that there is (was) only one Frostmourne.
For The Black Hand, we never really had the details around it as an important weapon. It really didn't matter if there were hundreds of them out there because it's easy to assume that the weapon's history doesn't matter since we weren't really given that history at all.
Rexzar ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 10:54:52 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
No one cared about all the gorehowls, hand of ragnaros, thunderfury, illidan glaives etc floating around, people just needed something to complain about.
Duese ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:14:44 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Thunderfury and Hand of Ragnaros were technically crafted which made sense when more people had it.
Illidan's glaives weren't specifically important beyond the fact that they were glaives which was different. We already have other mobs in the game that use glaives, so that alone isn't enough to warrant their exclusivity. Further to that, the lore behind his weapons isn't exactly that known nor has it been made important.
Gorehowl is one of the exceptions in the game that does get ignored by players/devs but more importantly gets ignored by the lore as well. This is where the importance is really highlighted.
Gorehowl didn't really have any lore behind it's actual drop. Because it didn't really have any lore behind it, it made it so you could ignore the fact that it was dropping and then forget about it when Grom is holding it going into MoP.
This is a very big difference when you look at the major lore weapons being proposed because they ARE making it a huge part of the lore. It's being done in a way that they can't just ignore or retcon out. They are building the story around it.
Rexzar ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:49:34 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Ashbringer is crafted aswell, by Magni who from the sound of it is coming back, its made from the core of a dead Naaru so it is possible to have multiple I imagine, since Naaru may be helping with the legion and dying as a result, hell it is more possible to have multiple Ashbringers than it is to have multiple Ebonchill or Doomhammer.
Duese ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:01:42 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They are doing the same thing with Frostmourne as well and it just doesn't work. You take a weapon where the lore is built around there only being ONE of them and then you just throw it out to everyone, you destroy the value of that weapon.
HoR and TF were both introduced as weapons that weren't specifically only being ONE of them.
The real thing that just fucking bothers me is why they needed to reference it to ashbringer or frostmourne or any of the known legendaries at all. The story and the value of these artifact weapons doesn't get diminished if the story of the actual weapon is entirely new.
For example, if the new weapon was crafted by Magni from the core of a dead Naaru, that's interesting and fun. When they try to piggyback off of a part of the lore that is really important to people, then there isn't a situation where Blizzard comes out ahead.
These artifacts being related to known lore weapons is going to be the "flying" of this expansion to a lesser degree. This is where blizzard created a problem that they could have avoided from the start. This problem will (to a lesser degree in this case) define the expansion just like the whole flying ordeal defined this expansion.
WizardPoop ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:39:08 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That's because those weapons aren't anywhere near the level of Ashbringer. The Ashbringer is pretty much the single most powerful weapon we (as players) know of. Not only that, the only weapon close to it in power, Frostmourne, was destroyed in a single stroke. Gorehowl, Doomhammer, a random Windrunner Bow, The Warglaives of Azzinoth, they are all practically scrap iron compared to Ashbringer.
reanima ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:40:09 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I feel that the looks are a minor problem compared to the idea that its a weapon with significant lore for itself and its previous owners being given out like its a clearance sale. It really back to the conflicting identity the players have. For the longest time were considered just another adventurer in a crowd of them, but ever since WOD weve moved up several levels. Instead of just being a part of the story, we are slowly being the story.
Pussmangus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:28:56 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm glad every one has Ashbringer, because as a monk i as afraid i wouldnt get that model
wew5450 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 02:35:55 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Can someone please tell me what the artifact weapons are about?
orangesheepdog ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 03:09:20 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
In Legion, each class will be able to do a questline which gives them a spec-specific Artifact weapon which can be leveled similarly to the old talent system.
wew5450 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 03:24:25 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, well that's pretty cool
Suzushiiro ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 02:30:22 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Ever since LK or so weapons and armor from the hardest bosses in the game have looked almost identical to weapons that you can get in content doable by PuGs. How is this any different?
Hell, if they give unique artifact transmogs for killing Mythic bosses (somewhat likely) then the situation will actually be slightly better than it is now.
GeekofFury ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:21:04 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
People are way too interested in what other people have on their characters.
Do you have totally awesome gear that looks badass as fuck? Did you experience an epic story and have fun adventuring to get it? Good. Great. That's all that matters.
If people having what you have diminishes what you have, you are way to concerned about other people's shit.
As to "no copies in lore" tell that to the Corrupted Ashbringer, The Warglaives of Azzinoth, Thor'idal, Quel'Delar, Thunderfury, Sulfuras, Shadowmourne, etc. Basically, this is where you have to have a certain suspension of disbelief. Everyone has the "unique" weapon of their spec as part of their own personal story in Legion. It's a single player aspect in an MMO. So what?
Heroic_Sage25 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:31:14 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
On top of what you said I like how people just kind of gloss over the fact that you can xmog these weapons.
MrPringles23 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:16:27 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Most of those were so rare you'd only see 1 or 2 of them when they were current.
Now every spec by default is going to have the same thing (unless they decide to xmog).
Old blizzard wouldn't have done this, it used to be a MMOPRG before a single-player RPG. Now it's a single player RPG first, with MMORPG aspects second.
infernalhawk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:30:58 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I don't get what you are getting at. Since vanilla there has always been a BiS weapon for every spec. It's not like it's anything new that people use the same weapons. I mean the BiS weapon for pretty much every caster dps class/spec right now is edict of argus surely one for each spec is better than one for every 4-6 specs is better?
Paddy_Tanninger ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:22:18 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The difficulty in the quests doesn't make me feel like I 'earned' any of this shit nor deserve to be called "commander" by every single person on Draenor.
I killed 10 bats and marked 8 trees for lumberjacks, and then killed some named rock guy who chipped off 5% of my HP in the process.
It's all just so easy that everything rings false to me.
Electric_Guitar ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 01:55:28 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I really don't care if everyone else has one. I will enjoy playing with every artifact that becomes available to see what type of talent/skill combinations they come up with and seeing the kind of synergy they have with their respective class/specs. It's more important to me that they do these right and that they are interesting than it is that everyone gets one.
gyshall ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 02:44:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
First off, I came here from /r/all.
Second off, I haven't played WoW in almost six or seven years, at least since Burning Crusade.
How common are Ashbringers now?
pengalor ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:13:30 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's referring to the next expansion: Legion. Somewhere early in the leveling experience from 100-110 we will get an 'artifact weapon' that is different for each class and spec. Some of these are well-known weapons (Ashbringer for Ret Pallies, Doomhammer for Elemental(?) Shaman). Word is we'll be spending the rest of the expansion with these weapons specifically (so no other weapon drops). They will have a talent tree built into the weapon specifically to modify how it functions to your liking and they will grow in power with you throughout the expansion (for example, killing a raid boss may upgrade the weapon's stats).
Gregarwolf ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 03:34:33 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Mostly right, just wanted to clarify that it's actually Enhancement Shammies that will be getting Doomhammer.
Whitestrake ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:16:53 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
What are we going to wield alongside it, I wonder?
XxJTHMxX ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 04:28:34 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I heard it's a spectral version of it in your offhand
Dromar420 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:31:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
A spectral verison it was said.
Gregarwolf ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:38:15 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The reveal stream said that we'd get some sort of "spectral" hammer in our off-hand.
OBrien ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:45:18 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If only we could go back to 2H enhancement recently D:
cocaine_enema ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:28:42 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm sure this has been answered elsewhere, but I can't find it and late to the party...: what happens if you respec? do you keep it or get the other artifact?
pengalor ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:10:48 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Actually, not entirely sure. They said you will definitely have to level them independently so I assume you'll get the artifact for each spec you have and you just switch over when you change specs.
tehrebound ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 03:02:33 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Right now? Not at all. The (Corrupted) Ashbringer questline is dead and gone and has been for some time.
However, for the latest WoW expansion, titled Legion, the expectation is that all Paladins will have Ashbringer, and what will change is the customization therein. You might have a Flaming Ashbringer, while my paladin will have a Broken Ashbringer.
wonkothesane13 ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 04:57:47 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Not all Paladins will have Ashbringer, only Retadins. Artifacts are spec-specific, for like the jillionth time.
Forever_Awkward ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 05:24:04 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
So what you're saying is all paladins will have Ashbringers.
raedge ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 07:01:53 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a Holy main, I don't get an Ashbringer
Forever_Awkward ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 07:42:10 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, but that's because you're a priest.
raedge ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 07:54:35 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Excuse you, I'm a priest IN ARMOR thank you very much.
Paddy_Tanninger ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:18:44 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Looks awfully dress-like to me.
raedge ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:49:23 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's called a ROBE tyvm.
Forever_Awkward ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 08:21:54 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You know, that was pretty standard back in my day.
Only, we called them clerics.
yusuf69 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:26:29 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
and they got d8 health and they LIKED it
MatzDam ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:54:53 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Easy there, he was just explaining something to someone who hasn't played in a long time, he might have dumbed it down a bit because of that. No reason for passive-aggressiveness
wonkothesane13 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:36:14 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I get that, but even in Vanilla, Ret was the only spec that used 2H weapons.
fockface ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 06:38:05 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not sure exactly how this works, but wouldn't all Paladins still have the Ashbringer but only use it when they are ret?
wonkothesane13 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:32:43 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
No, they don't just give you the artifacts for each spec. You have to be that spec, and then go through the quest chain for acquiring it. So, any Paladins whose only specs are Holy and Prot will only have those two artifacts.
JealotGaming ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:40:43 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Only Ret will have Ashbringers. That's 1/3rd of 1 class out of 12.
the-hadob ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:36:10 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well for now, pretty much non-existant since it's not in the game. But the next expansion has a feature called artifact weapons which consist of every specs having one legendary type weapon for the whole expension, and Ashbringer is planned to be ret pally's weapon.
nater255 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:23:46 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
A few of us still have our Vanilla Ashbringers, thank you!
the-hadob ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 13:30:48 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Nope you don't have Ashbringer sorry my friend you have corrupted Ashbringer which is not the same thing at all.
WhamburgerWFries ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 06:50:35 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Lmao I quit after TBC too, went back for panda land and whatever the garrison xpac was called then and I was so let down, I like world PvP and not that ganking crap... Shame they ruined a really good game
SinisterSintram ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:02:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Eh, MoP was awsome. Filled with content. Granted PvP have been shit for ages but the PvE of MoP was bountyfull and varied. WoD is like... half an expansion though.
Rockstar112 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 05:32:15 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's been exactly 9.7 seconds since someone mentioned [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker]
Karonax ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:12:49 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Did somebody say [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker]!?
beeblebr0x ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 02:13:20 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This actually brings up something I've been curious about. Is it just assumed that your character is the chosen one and only you wield the artifact? I don't know why, but in an MMO that just really bugs me. We're all the chosen one; it's dumb. The chosen ones, sure. But you can't refer to a group of 25 people as the chosen one - singular.
g00f ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 02:30:19 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's always been a problem, and was really highlighted by the legendary cloaks. You were suppose to be Wrathion's personal agent...as is everyone else in your raid.
It's kind of an inevitable thing. In Vanilla and BC to a certain extent, you were still just an adventurer, any active involvement in major campaigns you were essentially just hiring yourself on whether it be fighting for your faction(pvp) or working with, say, the cenarion circle(AQ40, and correct me if i'm wrong on the faction). Horde or Alliance governing bodies were never actively involved in the major conflicts, as far as I recall that didn't really start up til BC. Now you're working with ranking people, and often, so its the polar opposite of Skyrim, where people now know you're this badass who's done shit.
om1cron ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:15:17 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
So you're saying that a Black dragon lied to you about something?
sirkib ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:24:31 on November 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Call me crazy, but I really liked that about early Wow. adjusts rose-tinted glasses. I really liked just being some random ponce, running about in Ashenvale, skinning deer for pelts to sell for tuppence a bag. I can appreciate the new way of doing things. It lends itself well to a game... but it still takes me out of the experience.
GwenTheGreenKnight ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:31:38 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
So, you just have the player character as a non-entity and give all the boss kills to other lore characters? That gets tiring after a while.
Dromar420 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:39:50 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
As far as the story of the game you and you alone are the chosen one of your spec and you alone wield that artifact along with a chosen one of each other spec in the game and canotically ,or as far as story is conserned, those are the only people with these weapons.
thecody17 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:52:33 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This gets me thinking about the novels that come out. Who are the main characters going to be ? Lore-wise in WoD and in Legion our characters are individually and exclusively the most important character. We're the Commander of the Horde/Alliance forces on Draenor. We're the ones who didn't die or give up hope and chose to fight the Legion.
The novels are going to be dull as hell if they're about Thrall sitting at home in the feral position because he lost hope, while we continue to get zero recognition.
[deleted] ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 00:58:23 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
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WriterV ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 01:51:16 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
THing is though that they have a lot of customization both in appearance and functionality. Lore Wise though, you've got to pretend that you're just one of the commanders in your faction;s army bestowed with the artifact.
You gotta do a bit of RP, it's in the name man. xD About the best anyone can do for now.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 02:08:42 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
But "Everyone" doesn't have them.
In the game, you're a lone wolf champion. The other players are just regular folks, not super champions like yourself.
ZEAL92 ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 02:17:38 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Are we secretly nephalem? Because if so it's all coming together now.
GwenTheGreenKnight ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 02:29:53 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
No, we are the Naaruphalem, chosen children of mortal races that mated with Naaru. Somehow (booze).
SinisterSintram ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:04:10 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Whe... where would you even stick it?
Shaxys ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:07:56 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They stick it.
gryts ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:36:48 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
So raids are just you going in solo and beating the shit out of Illidan and the like?
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 02:54:31 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
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[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 03:12:23 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
wtb 12 man class locked raiding.
Avexyli ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 03:58:01 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I think this would actually be kinda cool.
reachfell ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 06:01:59 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
"LF monk for class raid pst"
"NEED MOKN 500G PST"
"Any monks on?"
"Ok guys we're gtg just need a monk"
Mentalseppuku ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:15:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It would really open up the ability to make classes unique again.
banditpanda ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:31:14 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This is basically how our 40-man MC raids used to be (you know, just with ... 40, not 12).
โบ 5 Druids (all heal), Hunters, Mages, Paladins (all heal), Priests (all heal), Rogues, Warlocks, Warriors (all tank, but one)
No, we couldn't take more DPS instead of all that overheal ...
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:54:27 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, yeah, I remember those days. I just prefer the lesser overhead of 10ishman raiding.
iamsmrtgmr ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:53:17 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
it wouldnt be one of that class only one of each spec
URF_reibeer ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:12:21 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
why would there lorewise only be one of each class? they're a bunch of nameless adventurers, why can't they have multiple warriors?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:51:52 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Lugonn ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 05:33:47 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
How is this anything new? There were six million people who helped Tirion get his groove back in Vanilla.
There were 12 million people who helped Crusader Bridenbrad pass on into Naaru heaven. How the fuck does that work?
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 03:05:29 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Stackhouse_ ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 05:45:22 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah but wouldn't it be gay if only one person could have tf on any given server then that guy just quit wow or was an alt or something
URF_reibeer ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:13:54 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
but it's like that since forever. everyone was the one doing the important lore stuff in quests/dungeons/raids, everyone could get illidans weapons, everyone could get sulfaras etc. it just doesn't require that much grind anymore
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:10:42 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If you dont care lore wise why care at all when were all killing things for the same loot table.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:10:28 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I totally understand, but these guys aren't given an infinite amount of time to design game mechanics around you being truly unique.
If they drop that aspect of it, the game loses appeal because great stories don't involve 12 million people. It's a protagonist and antagonist and their journey. That just doesn't translate well in an MMO.
We require a suspension of disbelief for lore to work, and that suffers on the nexus in which we identify as the player or as our player.
stephangb ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 04:12:39 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I don't buy this argument, it's a fucking mmo, I don't care that "lorewise I'm a lone wolf champion or w/e", I care that everybody is running around with a fucking Ashbringer.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:22:41 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's not really an argument to 'buy.'
It is what it is.
stephangb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:50:11 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Of course it is, you're saying I'm "alone" in the world, but there is a shit ton of players around me at all times, lorewise doesn't matter if there's Bob who sells bread in Stormwind showing off his Doomhammer he just found in the dumpster the other day.
Dromar420 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:36:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well you eather get it locked behind the highest raid tier off the last boss so that only 1% of players will ever see it, hint that wont be you, or everyone gets it there is very little room for inbetween with how the current flow of the game is designed.
stephangb ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 04:46:52 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
yes please
Dimplebean ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:46:02 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Did you care when every Paladin, Death Knight, and Warrior was running around with Gurthalak, or every Mage, Warlock, Priest and Balance Druid had the Staff of the Grand Imperator? Loot tables are shared by multiple classes, and weapons are no different. That's been the same way since the game was released.
stephangb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:48:16 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
No because those were not legendary weapons owned by a non-evil character such as Thrall/Tirion.
Dimplebean ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:11:30 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
What about Atiesh, or Dragonwrath? Seeing multiples of those didn't bother you? A weapon that literally contains the essence of a member of the Blue Dragonflight? How do you get multiples of those? Neither one of those weapons were owned by "evil" characters, and arguably Atiesh was owned by a hero (at least a netural character atoning for his possessed self's actions). The point remains the same though, especially with Atiesh.
stephangb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:20:23 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It doesn't bother me as long as there are only a few players with those and I'm not the only one who has this opinion. It bothers me when literally everybody will run around Azeroth with a legendary weapon.
Atiesh was Medivh's weapon and Medivh died and his spirit's (?) been missing since forever now.
Dimplebean ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:32:44 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Medivh's not dead. He was killed by Khadgar, but then resurrected by his mother. He had his physical form in WC3. He disappears at the end of WC3 to "Take his place among the legends of the past", but not all of them are dead. We have no reason to assume he's dead any more than any missing hero. Also Khadgar's currently wielding Atiesh, and he's MU Khadgar. So there's an even bigger issue with that then Ashbringer, which has been confirmed to no longer being wielded by Tirion. Obviously this is all opinion, but I don't think it's as big of an issue as people are making it out to be. With all the customization options, transmog, etc., I think you'll see the same variety in weapons as we currently see.
stephangb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:46:59 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Isn't he some form of ghost in WC3?
He wasn't in classic, when players could obtain Atiesh though.
Idk about others, but I simply don't like the idea. My interpretation of a mmo is that content shouldn't be available for every type of players, but to reward players who are dedicated to the game (just my opinion).
fockface ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 06:16:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Wow, if that's the case then Blizzard makes it really hard to suspend disbelief on that front. You can hit 100 and get decked out in epics pretty easily in a week these days with all of the shortcuts that the game provides. Shit just ain't like what it used to be. /oldmanrant
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:20:48 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Because people don't have half a year to invest in just leveling. The game adapts to the players as it goes on. However, the path is still there. It obviously works because... a decade later and it's still rockin'.
I thought that was a given.
fockface ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 06:50:20 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If by rockin you mean that the game has been on a steady decline since Wrath then yeah. What I don't like about your argument and the current state of WoW though, is that it assumes that leveling isn't an important part of the game. The way Blizz has set up the game is that levels 1-99 mean basically nothing and that you should be raiding end game content by the first week. Then people get bored and complain that there isn't anything to do.
I personally would rather have a little bit of the grind back than to just be handed everything have my progression immediately be put on rails.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:31:50 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The formula hasn't changed, just the speed at which things are done.
Push button, get shiny.
Its_What_I_Do ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:17:44 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm sure it'll be some multiple world's thing where the legion comes through brining soldiers with artifact weapons from the multitude of time lines they've slaughtered. We get a group of us to go take on that person, kill em, and we take the artifact weapon. Sure, everyone will have one, but considering they're the most powerful weapons, everyone will need one against The Legion. Then of course we hit 110 and unlock their full potential, allowing us to overpower Legion with the few, the proud, the PC's.
๐๏ธ Orksrthebestest ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 01:01:14 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I agree. Even with the added cosmetics for each artifact it really does take away from the emphasis each weapon brings to the lore.
alrightknight ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 01:19:18 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You have to try imagine that you are the only one with it. Just like every aspect of an MMO. You are the only hero of your class.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 01:57:28 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Ultimatepwr ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 02:40:24 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
People have tried several different ways of mmo storytelling. The only one that really works is to have the player character as the one true hero of the story, and every other player characters as side mercs/less important champions.
There are basically two other schools of thought, the "player character doesn't matter" school where you just follow around a npc and help them out, and of course the "Every player is a hero" idea. That second one is very popular to try and discuss on forums, as it is the only one that is only possible in an mmo, and the argument is if you don't tell it that way why not just make a single player rpg instead. The problem with it is that it very quickly leads into the "If everyone's special, no one is" and ends up being the exact same as the player character doesn't matter in practice.
So while I kinda like your theory, I think the easier and quite frankly better storytelling is for the developers to just ignore that everyone has an artifact and pretend only you do.
fockface ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 06:28:58 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I just don't understand why they would do this. Were enough people really demanding that they be able to play with one of the most famous weapons in the entire game?
The most positive thing I see about this decision is people trying to defend it saying that it's not that bad. I rarely see people who are just overjoyed with this feature.
Ultimatepwr ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:04:48 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Game design is not design by committee. listening to players too much is actually a worse mistake then not listening to players at all.
Realistically, they are probably doing it to sell legion with the "sick weapons yo" tagline, but if they have a good idea for a set of stories they can do then it is a good idea even if there wasn't a single reaction better then "meh"
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:15:30 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
fockface ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 06:32:37 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's a game of hand-outs now. If you say 'I want that', then Blizzard will make sure you can get it with relatively little work (when compared to how the game used to be at its peak).
KevinLee487 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:37:30 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Thats the logic of a selfish 6 year old. You only want it when nobody else can have it.
Its special because of its significance in lore. Its not just another random ass weapon that was picked up off of a goon in a dungeon or raid.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:31:56 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
KevinLee487 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:31:21 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yes because I realize that is just a side effect of gameplay. I understand what the lore is going for and the story that Blizzard has chosen to go with also comes with the requirement of having every Ret Paladin get Ashbringer.
That understanding allows me to enjoy Ashbringer just fine. Weather 1 person or 10,000,000 people have it, its still the same exact weapon and wielding such a powerful weapon makes me feel like my character has progressed as far as I could ever hope him/her to do in the lore.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:06:53 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
KevinLee487 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:19:16 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks for clarifying. I agree with you to an extent. I would have preferred that Blizzard just did the same thing with all the artifacts and just made up new significant weapons on the spot instead of taking the few very well known weapons and giving them to their respective classes.
As it sits right now, only 4 specs are getting weapons that have some connection with the lore and 1 of those specs is only getting a bullshit one off of said weapon. Every other spec feels like its getting short changed.
What the fuck is the Eagle Spear compared to the Ashbringer? What is Maw of the Damned compared to Doomhammer? Who the hell cares about Shei-Lun when Felo'melorn is in the hands of the guy next to you?
My personal biggest gripe.....why the fuck are Death Knights NOT getting Frostmourne?! Icebringer and Soulreaper are a slap in the face.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:26:36 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
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KevinLee487 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:35:42 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
And? Its getting reforged into 2 different swords. We've also personally reforged a runeblade ourselves and assisted in forging Shadowmourne.
Frostmourne being shattered is literally the weakest argument out there. Especially since Blizzard is essentially throwing the lore into the blender to get the artifact weapons into our hands in the first place.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:18:30 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
KevinLee487 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:38:08 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Reforging it with some Saronite shouldn't be a problem. Besides, were already forging into something else, so we clearly have the capability to work with the metals present in Frostmourne.
Metzen has already stated Ner'zhul's story is done and Arthas's soul is currently in WoW's equivalent of Hell. Sylvanas saw him there when she killed herself in Icecrown. Those two are long gone.
lesnb ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:28:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Lol awesome, I forgot about this scene. Thanks!
iamlthatisman ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:55:14 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Aladdin was the best Sega game
dactyif ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:05:18 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
And a very hard one.
NeedsToShutUp ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:52:42 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The Ashbringer...
Grubsteak_Mcgilicuty ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:57:40 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
What's the difference between me and a friend both having ashbringer and me and a friend having Thunderfury blessed blade of the wind seeker they are both pretty special items and while I know thunderfury isn't as legendary as ashbringer it's still the same feeling if I see a guy walking around with the same weapon as me
Supernormalguy ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 12:00:12 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
True, but how many people do you actually see with it on? It's still a long process to get, even at 100. It's only for cosmetics if your max level.
Blizz is going similarly to how FFXIV is doing. In that game they have a "relic" weapon which is only unique to each class. It can be upgraded to have better stats and each upgrade also changes the colors,skin, and adds effects so it can make some unique since it is a PITA to upgrade.
Chrippin ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:12:53 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
There's an old comic I've tried to find but haven't seen in years. It's poorly drawn and used to circulate around 4chan in ~2007. Anyway, its comparing Everquest to WoW and pretty much goes "everquest: 'you have defeated the dragon and proven yourself a true hero of the ages, I bestow upon you the legendary sword of the dragon slayer' WoW: 'welcome to our town. here, take this sword.' And its the exact same poorly drawn glowing sword as the EQ one but now there are multiple people running around town with it.
PossiblyALich ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:13:36 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They are all ret paladins and all chose the same skin for the weapon? Nah
smallz86 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:20:27 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Leave it r/wow to make a joke into a "wow is dead" thread.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:28:42 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well, we do have like 3 or 4 skins right ?
Enderbro ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:03:04 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Thing is, tank and healer pallys still won't have Ashbringer and so with the 36 different weapons that have another two more layers of customization, on top of the fact that you can still transmog it into something else means that seeing someone with the same weapon as you will be slim to none which is already the case with end-game raid weapons.
F0eniX ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 06:16:59 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I don't get the problem with everyone having the same weapon, all high tier players all have the exact same armor. My only problem is that we get it so early in the expansion
JealotGaming ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:43:46 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well later on in the expansion we'll have unlocked variations of the weapons anyway.
Widgetcraft ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:49:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
What you need to understand is that, in terms of the lore, YOUR CHARACTER has THE ASHBRINGER. This is because YOUR CHARACTER is now THE HERO. The other characters you see don't have THE ASHBRINGER and are not THE HERO.
azureknightgx ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:29:59 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
What if I don't want to be a hero.
balgruufgat ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:42:25 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Thing is, how many ret pallys are there really? This is probably going to be most prevalent with paladins, since most paladins have ret (making an assumption here) since I imagine very few paladins are holy/prot, not to mention the different versions/tints, and people transmogging it to something else, but for the rest of the classes, what is the ele/enc split for shamans? Sure, all enc shamans will have doomhammer, but just how many shamans are enc? I doubt it will be as bad as everyone is making it out to be. Of course, I could be wrong, we wont know until at the very least beta.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:25:48 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm gunna guess we get about treefitty more of these shit posts using ashbringer
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:29:21 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
lnclincoln ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:25:36 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The weapons have talent trees.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:36:45 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
lnclincoln ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:52:21 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You can transmogrify it.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:02:07 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
lnclincoln ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:17:56 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yea, I get you now. Sorry. Yea, that upsets me a little too. I am a frost DK, and would like to be able to use 2-hander as well as DW. It seems blizzard is defining each spec now. Certain weapons, and skills will define the spec.
the-hadob ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:54:30 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well if it's like the diablo transmog system i doubt we would have more choice than right now since you can't transmog a sword into a fist weapon in diablo either.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:58:51 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Now I have the image of Tirion dressed like Aladdin running around causing havoc in my head.
Myon_Shane54 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:23:33 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Many Keks Were Had!
Sirmalta ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:39:07 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
lol I love this.
Tarrock ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:36:19 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I just want to transmog my thunderfury...
Mentioned_Videos ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:29:55 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
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philnoob ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:32:05 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Similar to lotro weapons
Gnivil ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:13:31 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You know, just by the thumbnail I knew exactly what the joke was.
Goodis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:41:28 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Lmfao
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:36:39 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You know in FFXIV we have relic weapons (Apparently it was like this in FFXI too), that start off in the xpac as pretty decent for a non-raid weapon, and every patch their ceiling rises and the amount of grinding and stuff you have to go through to upgrade also rises. However, in FFXIV at least, the relic weapons are always half a tier behind the best possible raid weapons. Only after the highest end raid has been out for a cycle do the relics get brought up to Best in Slot tier.
It works out really well in FFXIV, lots of casual players have access to not-terrible weapons. Players who are so mechanically inept they can never achieve more than 25% of their jobs possible output can still get them and be happy.
boudy567 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:58:40 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
FFXIV is awesome for their understanding of items. They make it important to get everything but have it balanced so at the time it is the best for you, but not the best for the whole game.
Grabpot-Thundergust ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:12:23 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
More like http://imgur.com/gallery/EJpOrjJ
JealotGaming ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:45:35 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
So... why's yours low quality, or is that the joke?
Grabpot-Thundergust ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:15:30 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That was the joke - artifacts, geddit? Weak, I know. Sorry for the later reply - Only just noticed your message.
destruktoooor ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:58:15 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I think that blizzard might solve that issue the same way they did with the body guard follower you get from your faction hub in ashran: as an alliance player, your DK appears to you with his own name, voice... and other player's DKs appear to you as generic NPCs. So maybe you own artifact would be named and other people's would appear as a generic epic weapon.
radjono ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:18:34 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
HarvHR ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:54:24 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I have a question, as a Fury Warrior, to a just wield two 'unique' identical 2H swords?
AlmightyBracket ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:41:38 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly why they didn't want to do this but people wanted it and wanted it and wanted it and now they're getting it and BIG SURPRISE PEOPLE DON'T LIKE IT
Basilion ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:17:38 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Now that's some /r/FULLCOMMUNISM stuff
houseofmatt ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:30:32 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I used to play WoW, and doing those desert runs to get thise two swords to make one big sword was the coolest grind ever. It kind of makes me want to play again.
mooid ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:35:49 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I assumed it would be like named NPC characters on quests. When I quest with my husband, Durotan to me is named that, but my husband's "Durotan" is called "frost wolf warrior" or something on the tooltip. When you look at your artifact weapon it will be called its proper name. When you look at another, it will have a different name than yours, probably something generic. I hope that's how it works anyway.
MrMikko5000 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:50:34 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This is probably going to be the case.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:10:43 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
LessThan301 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:54:53 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They have said there will be no weapon drops
CashmereCroc ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:01:05 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Fack...that's lame
Leg__Day ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:08:52 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
How is this any different from every class in every expansion wanting the best weapon for each tier?
rayden202 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:19:49 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
you don't have to look forward to getting a new weapon
Leg__Day ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:33:28 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
But you can look forward to progression and enhancement of your artifact...there is no difference.
Everyone strives for BiS. Everyone strives for tier gear. Everyone ends up looking the same.
rayden202 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:17:22 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
except you have to work for the BiS and here you get it free regardless of whether you play or not
Yes it gains "power" as you go through the content but like I said, you already have it.
I guess it caters the very casuals who believe they are entitled to the BiS even if they only put in 1 hour per week and it's opinions, can't change it. Blizzard prefers that group more.
Leg__Day ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:27:46 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm expecting that the casuals who LFR will never get an equivalent artifact that Mythic raiders get, as far as progression and enhancement.
Kataphractoi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:46:36 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Thank god for transmog.
Culex66 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:05:37 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
There is the argument to be made that you, individually, are playing through the storyline, so it makes sense that "only you" have this artifact weapon. It's only when you add the fact that it is an MMO, and everyone else is playing through their individual storylines that everyone has it. Kind of like in SW:TOR, you were playing through your storylines as an individual player, even though every assassin had the same storylines.
tigojones ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:05:48 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I wonder if they'll do it like they do the garrison bodyguards, where you see the actual name of your bodyguard, but everyone else just sees a generic "mage". You would see Ashbringer, but everyone else would see just a generic sword (or maybe they could bring transmog into it, where you can select what weapon everyone else sees).
jebuz23 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:43:25 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
But mine will be green. and on fire.
TQueezy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:00:26 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Awesomesauce
craschnet ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:11:57 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
As a paladin, I hate the idea. I may look up to Lord Fording but I do not want to be him. I wish they rather make all legendary item be like heirlooms. I hate they neuter legendary item in time-walking dungeons. My Shadowmourn is iLvl 160. It should be 284 with WotLK TW.
Mattarias ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:34:25 on September 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Man, people can complain all they want, I'm hype as FUCK about Felo'melorn! I've wanted that sword for years!
Nazrel106 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:19:30 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
None of the weapons we get are special. Nononeisaspecialsnowflake
MrLoque ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 08:52:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
There was a time when having certain weapons (or mounts) meant you actually achieved a milestone. You was one of the chosen, one of the few. One of those who other players admired in Stormwind.
Nowadays we've got 3409586 mounts, 34875639456 weapon models, 3985645625 moggable pieces of armor, 357642564 pets. Being able to notice something different, which stands out and shines in the darkness... is very hard.
ER_Ryuk ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 09:45:38 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Why? Cause you have to inspect the person to see what he has in what difficulty?
MrLoque ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:05:43 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I mean something different. As a casual player it was pretty cool when you could see someone "powerful" enough to have acquired a specific armor, mount or weapon.
Nowadays the game has so many combinations that you don't even notice it anymore.
ER_Ryuk ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:06:59 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Half true. Through transmoging you can't see who has what armor equiped, but some specific mounts still can make you stand out. For instance Blackhand's Ironhoof Destroy and Archimonde's Felsomethnig mount, both from mythic. Even now I don't see the BH mount so often.
MrLoque ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 10:14:34 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I honestly never notice anything. There is so much variety, so many colors and animations and stuff... in the end it all looks "nice".
ER_Ryuk ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:20:49 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yea, it looks nice. But you can still tell apart players who are playing at a high level. Be it mount, gear, and even guild name. So I don't think your initial statement is correct. Killing a certain boss or getting a certain mount is still a milestone, and other players can see it too.
For instance when I saw the first Invincible on my realm in Dalaran, I thought "That mount is freaking cool!", nowadays I still think so, obviously with less excitement because I see the mounts in patch notes/model viewer. You also have to bare in mind that information nowadays is much easier to get. Back up to wotlk I believe toothboth was the only website for WoW and such (I think it's called like that, or smth similar) so you couldn't even datamine or see a lot of these things as easily as you can now.
SinisterSintram ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:14:11 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Thottbot
ER_Ryuk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:16:10 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yea, I knew it was something along those lines.
Gfiti ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:07:55 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
A shame that they won't add any other new weapons. Even if its just for new transmog styles, I MEAN COME ON
JustinS612 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:19:45 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They said they will be adding new weapon transmog styles that drop off bosses
xXMylord ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:27:30 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If you do the math it will be more weapon skins then any expansion brought over all class/specs.
austinbostin069 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:07:14 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
How I feel playing Destiny with Thorn.
IggyWon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:46:02 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
So I haven't played WoW in 5 years but came across this in r/all... how is this possible?
Spiral-knight ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:17:15 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
In legion all players will receive (as in part of the leveling process) an Artifact Weapon for their spec. Tied directly to the lore, ret pallys get ashbringer. Every singe red bull macro face-rolling idiot will get one of wow's most iconic weapons
IggyWon ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 07:01:46 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Oi.. That's unfortunate. Guess I bailed from this sinking ship at the right time.
anatem ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 08:12:54 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
5 years, sounds about right, that's after the ship hit the iceberg but before they noticed it was actually sinking
IggyWon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:25:37 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Remember the machine from The Princess Bride? This game was like that, but set to 7; from vanilla until early Cataclysm. Hell, my old main had over 360 days played, and I had a full lineup of other maxed characters... which, I guess, isn't that hard anymore, or so I've been told by people I know who still play. Glad I never relapsed.
To put it another way.. did you ever play C&C Genrals? Legendaries.. for everyone!
mspk7305 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:55:09 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Once everyone is super
NO ONE WILL BE
Mnemon-TORreport ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:14:48 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You know I really wonder if this is going to be the last expansion for WoW (or at least marks the beginning of the end) and that is why they are giving out artifact weapons to everybody.
It just screams to me "we're winding down the updates so we want people to have these special weapons to fight with until they decide to leave."
Because otherwise where do you go from giving people THE ultimate weapon for their class?
I don't see the next expansion saying "hey we know you had Frostmourne for more than a year, but now its time to use a lvl 120 green."
And sure they could expand the skill tree on the weapon itself, but how long before that gets old, cumbersome and looks just like the old tree system they got rid of?
Muggin ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:37:35 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They have done it before. Why would they not do it again?
BassPerson ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:18:16 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If everyone's super, nobody is
[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 02:18:25 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This is so fucking real. The concept of giving everyone a legendary weapon derived from lore is cool, but it just seems like such a desperate attempt for subs.
GwenTheGreenKnight ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:36:19 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It also solves a lot of problems when it comes to balance - "well, bob doesn't get his weapon drop until the tier, so his dps is shit until then" - and gives them a good baseline for balancing specs. As it stands it can be difficult to balance a class that is under-performing at one point in progression because it can leave them way over-performing once they get actual gear; now everyone will have the same base weapon damage and effects to balance around.
And sure, there is a marketing angle with "you can wield Ashbringer!" but to reduce it to only that reason is a little unfair to the developers.
cyz0r ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 02:19:22 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
this is why legendary cloak and ring were lame af. nothing legendary about them everyone has them.
shane727 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:42:19 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
And this is why they're stupid. We're ALL going to wield legendary weapons? We're ALL going to be the leaders of our class garrison? Sure it works in lore but it makes all the players feel the same. It would be nice to get items that separate you from other players like it felt in vanilla and bc.
bumhugger ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:48:08 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Every spec has their own weapons, and every weapon has a few different unlockable looks. That already makes it less likely that you'll bump into your doppelganger, but of course you can always transmog your weapon if that happens.
ER_Ryuk ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 10:24:37 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
1) They're not legendary.
2) You can customize it. You won't look like everyone else.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 05:11:29 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
No no no no some of us have lives and should get everything those who put hard work and effort in get!!! /s
shane727 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:27:06 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not saying it should take days to acquire. It should just make you feel accomplished is all.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:39:28 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It should be like Vanilla/BC where time and effort must be put in and not handed out like candy.
RoElementz ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:51:45 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This was incredibly well done. 10/10
๐๏ธ Orksrthebestest ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:04:45 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you!
Dotbgm ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 10:43:47 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know if it's just me, but I think it's a huge mistake adding these Artifact weapons in the game.
I like the idea of the mechanics, how you level it and can modify it visually, like a very enhanced Gem system. But Artifacts is making each player just as "important" as being a "Garrison Commander." We're all special, therefore nobody is special.
I have never had a "special" item in the game, except for server's first Reins of the Raven lord at 70 - even so, I still believe the craziest, most powerful weapons should only be wielded by the most powerful player or somehow be a guild-connected item.
ER_Ryuk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:45:36 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You can customize it. And there will probably be more unlockable customization in the future.
Dotbgm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:55:37 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yes I know they can be customized, I even mentioned they can even be modified visually. (Read again) I don't have a problem with the customization of weapons; I just think using Artifact weapons like Ashbringer and Doomhammer is ridiculous as you have millions of players wielding them in the end, despite they're customized..
ER_Ryuk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:58:12 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
To be honest it's not different then it is now. You have people running around with the same raid weapons, only thing which is different is LFR and the difficulty colour.
If you look at it, it's actually the same. In Legion you'll improve your Artifact weapon stage by stage. People who don't have a lot of time or do LFR only won't improve their weapon as fast as HC/Mythic raiders (hopefully).
You'll just have 1 spec having "The Ashbringer" Just like the spec nowadays has a BiS weapon from HFC.
Dotbgm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:03:14 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The raid weapons don't have books written about them and pages full of lore either. That's the difference. Visually I don't care if people wear stuff that looks the same, but it's quite a downer reading "The Shattering" and other Wow books where some of the weapons are written about - and suddenly every single player gets one.
Also what's with the downvotes? Isn't my posts relevant to OP's post or what "Prot Warrior Expert" ?
ER_Ryuk ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:07:17 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
I don't care about downvotes. You're assuming it's me. Just because someone dosn't agree with your opinion and downvotes you doesn't mean it's the person who's commenting that he doesn't agree with you (if that makes sense).
I've also been downvoted without being given a reason, but I atleast comment when I disagree with someone or something said. So don't go off blaming me just because someone's downvoting you.
Also about the lore part, sure. I agree, except that a lot of people don't know anything about the item through the game. It was present in the DK starting zone and during ICC and the respective northerend zone.
Oh, and downvotes don't mean your post isn't relevant to a topic. It mostly means people don't like or disagree with what you said.
Edit: Oh, and I can't even see if you're downvoted or not (Score Hidden).
Edit2: Here you go about the downvotes and on the right it proves I'm logged into my reddit account.
Dotbgm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:21:21 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not sure bout other subreddits; but it kinda says on r/Wow not to downvote stuff, unless it's irrelevant or just completely stupid lol. Fair enough it just seemed to be perfect timing between our conversation - but it guess someone w/o a life is sticking to my feed right down and downvoting every valid argument or opinion I got. Which seems stupid as OP's post is exactly what results in these discussions.. and good discussions too _^
(Also I still think the DK starting zone is the best. The lore backing up every action, ability and move is amazing! You get your steed, while other classes just go over and buy them for next to no gold lol)
Despite it isn't really that bad xD I like the idea behind the weapons. I just think they should've made up some story for new weapons. Who
ER_Ryuk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:23:47 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
There was a period during the Tanking Threads when SoO was the current tier that people would downvote every tank giving advice to around -1 and -2 for no good reason. It was funny and sad at the same time.
Yea, I agree. It's really good. I hope they don't fuck up the DH starting zone.
Dotbgm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:38:39 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I doubt it. Even the Worgen and Goblin starting zones were pretty good and the leveling in Warlords. I think Blizzard has pretty much nailed the leveling experience so far... Which is way too quick for my taste, but yeah. I'll be leveling a DH, but only 2 levels. I hope the quests you can do during those 2 levels are awesome tho'
ER_Ryuk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:03:23 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Same. I'm rerolling DH so I will play them a lot during beta
depressed_donkey ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 12:10:57 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Are you kidding? Nothing can excuse this sorry ass lame expansion thats killing this game
Korize ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:22:05 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Have you played it? do you know the story, the systems, the new builds, quests, areas, all of it? If not, stop saying that it's killing the game, you - like the rest of us - have no idea.
You can say that You dont like it, I however do like it a lot. Really lookin forward to it!
depressed_donkey ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:13:39 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Get ready for another dissapointing 50 dollars
nytetears ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:25:42 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
every expansion ever released has heard the cry of ' This expansion is going to kill the game!'
ChodeWarts ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 05:14:18 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I left the game just in time. This is the WoW equivalent of 'EVERY PLAYER GETS A TROPHY!' or "YOU ARE ALL SPECIAL LITTLE SNOWFLAKES.' I'll pass altogether and spent an extra $15 a month on beer or weed.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 07:22:52 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
very interesting.
orangesheepdog ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:31:28 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's funny because it's true.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:03:17 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
InternetDegenerate ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:42:27 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
On the main legion site they have a few examples. And some seem pretty cool, even though they don't have a previous lore about them (well not as prolific as ashbringer/doomhammer) what they have reveals seems pretty cool. I don't like all of them though and we'll just have to wait and see once every spec has representation for each weapon/variation.
For fire mages, you get to wield Prince Kael'thas' one hand sword, which is a really neat looking weapon.
Hockeygod9911 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 05:15:02 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yup, when everybody is unique, nobody is unique.
ER_Ryuk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:23:52 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Except you can make the weapons look how you want, and they will probably increase the ways of customization.
Hockeygod9911 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:49:03 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Doesn't matter, still the same shit. Wow had become so shit...
anatem ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 08:14:52 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
the desperation is real
urection ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 10:04:46 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
yeah I hope to Christ we can mog them
ER_Ryuk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:21:44 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They already said it's customizable.
EnigmaNL ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 11:12:39 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This is why I already dislike artifacts.
calencor ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:23:45 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
justpaladinthings
Orderdrake ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:50:24 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Wait a second Ashbringer came from WoW? I just found it in diablo 3. It rocks face for my crusader.
Druhin ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:01:38 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The Ashbringer originated in Warcraft lore. There was a Corrupted Ashbringer once, but it was eventually purified.
azureknightgx ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:28:22 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Its the same weapon though.
Show_Me_Your_Rocket ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 03:16:52 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The fact that there will be so many 'legendary' weapons (ie: everyone will have one) kind of breaks immersion for me.
It would be totally wicked if these weapons worked the way that Divine Rapier works on Dota2, & it dropped when you die, and looted by someone else.. allowing only one of each legendary weapon to exist on each server. People would get shitty that such a feature could only exist on a PvP realm though.
Conklayv ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 05:19:25 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Lemme just get the weapon and decide to never play again lel.
This is a pretty bad suggestion.
Show_Me_Your_Rocket ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 12:10:38 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You'd have to be stupid to think there couldn't be ways around that. But who cares, lets have hundreds of thousands of legendary weapons which aren't actually legendary anymore.
Conklayv ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:14:01 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Whether or not you can create a perfect system to keep the weapon active, what could stop a casual player from getting the weapon over a dedicated, top 10 raider who would deserve, and use it, more?
Show_Me_Your_Rocket ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:57:29 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Nothing, but how would a 'casual' player survive getting ganked by a top 10 raiding guild if they wanted it so much?
I'm not saying it's a great idea, I'm just trying to create discussion for alternative suggestions to absolutely every single player having a legendary weapon. Because at that point, they aren't legendary anymore, & it's lore-breaking.
gomike720 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:34:37 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That...doesn't even sound fun...
Show_Me_Your_Rocket ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 12:11:36 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Of course it doesn't, everyone wants their one of a kind legendary weapon which isn't actually legendary anymore. That sounds heaps more fun.
depressed_donkey ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 10:18:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Too bad they keep stabbing a broken game while hes down
ER_Ryuk ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:23:00 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's not broken nor down, lol.
depressed_donkey ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 11:32:06 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Its done
ER_Ryuk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:34:21 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Nice arguement "it's done". Wow still has over 5 mil players. That's more people than certain countries have. Yea, it's not as glorious asit used to be during WOTLK, but it's far from "broken and down". Infact HFC had some of the best fights in a long time. Including one of the hardest and best end-boss designed so far. So please, quicha bitchin' will ye.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 04:07:31 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Not gonna lie I can't recall the last time I was so underwhelmed by a expac feature.
Oh joy I get a transmog gear and another menu to play in ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzz
ER_Ryuk ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 10:24:55 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Don't play than.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:31:21 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Why is this is the default response to any criticism? Have you enjoyed every feature and change ever released for WoW? Do you feel that only players who have absolutely no complaints whatsoever about the game should be the one's who play it? Are you suggesting that any criticism is invalid because a player has a choice whether or not they play the game?
Just what exactly are you trying to say here?
ER_Ryuk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:27:28 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Sorry but what criticism? Are you serious? You didn't critique anything. You just said your own opinion and the 2nd sentence was some sarcastic bullcrap. What are YOU trying to say here?
You're not happy with the next expansion. Ok, fair enough. You don't have to play what you don't like, that's the obvious solution. You won't pay for something you're not gonna play either, so the obvious solution to your dissatisfactor is > Stop playing the game.
I don't remember any I didn't, except warriors being the worst tanks performance wise in the current content. But that's ONLY my experience, maybe some people don't have that. I'm pointing this out so you don't start nitpicking. It is MY experience.
Absolutely not. But your post was the exact thing what I'd call a "Moaning and bitching post with no feedback". You just stated you're underwhelmed, you didnt' state ANY positive factor which might interest you, nor did you critique ANYTHING. You just stated "I'm not happy", that's your comment in a nutshell.
Your comment isn't criticism, it's moaning and bitching and complaining. Criticism would mean you'd criticise what things the expansion would bring. E.G "I don't like having a artifact weapons because of reasons A B and C. I don't like the Burning legion arriving because of reasons X Y and Z". Your comment is not criticism, it's complaining without any feedback.
I'm trying to say the obvious. Not happy with a game? Nobody forces you to buy it or pay the sub.
How about this. What in the blue hell were you trying to critique with your stupid comment? The entire expansion? Artifact weapons? Because you criticised absolutely nothing.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:34:16 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
THIS GUY RUINED BIOSHOCK INFINITE FOR ME
Erakko ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 11:54:19 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Last shout from a dying game. Give artifact weapons for everybody.
WonTonBurritoMeals ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 02:46:49 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Ugh..... before the announcement I was talking to my friends about how I wanted to be a ret paladin. I've been a priest so long as a healer I wanted to do something different, but a class that has another spec as either heals or tanking. Paladin filled all three, and I have an alt ret pally for pvp. So bam! Sounded great!
Since this announcement, and all the memes and bullshit about ashbringers makes me not want to play a ret pally. I'm not an old school lore nerd so I dont really want an ashbringer.
I'm thinking windwalker monk now. Could be fun, and has both my off-specs so noodle with.
I really wanted to play a ret paladin as my main :( The wings.... the utility.... I just dont want to be an ashbringer idiot.
pengalor ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:16:17 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
As someone who has played a hunter since late Wrath, fuck whatever other people will think about you, if you love the class then play it. Hell, if you play well then you'll often get praised for not falling into the stereotype.
Foehammer87 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:16:34 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
so instead youre the kind of idiot that lets what other people do stop you from having your own fun? Cuz that's where it's at now.
99% of people in an expac end up using identical weapons, because now the weapon is especially awesome and guaranteed to look gorgeous and have a whole bucket of skins now is the time to be butthurt? really? now?
WonTonBurritoMeals ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 03:24:45 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks man! Awesome insight!
the-hadob ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:50:55 on September 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Monk is in my opinion the "best" class in the game since it's versatile and the gameplay is very different from other class it's refreshing.
Now as a lore nerd i can assure i'm not really excited by having Ashbringer all those legendary weapons i prefer when they are wielded by an important lore character, or in order for a player to actually wield one i like this way : So the big lore character died or just disappeared and the weapon is lost through time but the player can aquire it at the end of a long lore heavy quest line, kinda like the vanilla legendary but i would make them transmogable since the grind is quite a pain in the ass and not many people do them for this reason.