Rian Johnson talks about The Last Jedi *SPOILERS*

it was there just to sell toys

I mean they were definitely still an issue, just not nearly as big at the other issues

deleted ^{What is this?}

I think the most logical answer is that people with more money than human decency get really upset when things like 'their view' are disturbed by some junker shuttle being parked in it. I seriously doubt they cared about the wildlife or the ecological impact of a shuttle parking on the beach.

Edit: A word.

Now it was worth it!

Planet's Not Hoth

Exactly! I laughed out loud.

If family guy ever made a sequel trilogy parody this would be in it for sure.

hey sarge, what's that a brick of? Some good coke? ::sarge takes a bump of what would later be identified as anthrax::

They should do that in a modern cop show

"Oh shit, that was fentanyl"

--Cop dies--

Cue laugh track

That's a sack of heroin there, friend

Fun fact, one doesn't taste for cocaine, one "tastes" it to see if the powder numbs your gums.

At least they interacted with and destroyed the AT-AT's on Hoth.

Remember when the new AT-ATs just stood there and watched rose sexually assault finn?

And the battle is at the end not the beginning! See!? IT'S NOT THE SAME!! wE,rE dIfFerrEnT!11!

It would be funny if it weren't true and described the entire plot. Same, different but still same

I can’t understand how people are actually taking that line seriously. Obviously the scene was a fan service scene for people who wanted a new hoth in the new second episode and that joke was basically saying “yes we know it’s an obvious rehash, but get over that and have fun watching it”

Are you thinking of spitting on a rock?

I've come to accept that Rian & I just have a different taste in movies. No pun.

I agree that the audience needs something to tell them that when the planet looks the same as Hoth but it would be easier to do it in a short exposition of Leia telling Poe about the planet Krait instead of a weird scene where someone licks the ground. I also thought he was bleeding when I first watched it. What else are we supposed to think without a character telling us? The line, "It's salt" is so pithy and unnecessary in that place. Are we supposed to laugh? It's not really a funny line. It kind of explains it's not blood but why not just avoid the confusion and maintain the tense atmosphere? It's like they went out of their way to break up any serious moment with a quip.

I think so.

What do you mean?

So what? The base was there because it was so isolated, not because of the non-toxic ground. It just doesn't pass my common sense test.

Exactly!

Yeah pretty much.

Not immediately, its made pretty clear that he's been in med bay for a while.

He's still in a coma. It was all Finn's dream.

An attempt at audience surrogate

She just needs to build a double light saber. Keep the staff motif working.

Poles and swords are extraordinarily different weapons though. There is also the fact that calling it “training” only to not learn anything or have to learn anything is a bit lame.

Also Rey isn't much different from Luke in the original trilogy.

THANK YOU.

I get so tired of seeing this "Mary Sue" stuff. I mean yeah, is her character's skill level unrealistic? Yes. It's a movie about space wizards, so...that's kinda par for the course. But it's not like Luke was really any different.

Everything he does in ANH is with basically zero training. And even in ESB and RoTJ, he really doesn't get much training at all. Certainly no training in swordfighting (that we see), nor any training in doing jedi mind tricks or anything like that. Yoda's training is mostly about believing in the force (not a problem Rey has, she's far less skeptical than Luke) and understanding it and the challenges of the dark side.

In TLJ/ESB, Rey/Luke leave in the middle of training that's been mostly focused on philosophy with a master who isn't 100% sold on teaching them in the first place. They fly off and encounter a fully-trained dark side user (Vader/Snoke) and they both lose to that person horribly. Basically both end in a position of almost certain death, and only escape dying due to luck (Luke somehow falls to a place where the Falcon can come save him, Rey gets lucky that Kylo Ren decides to cut Snoke in half).

From there it's obviously different since that's where ESB ends, whereas Rey does more in TLJ, but I don't think any of it's really out of line with what we've seen previously in Star Wars. She fights off some non-jedi guards, ties Kylo Ren in a duel (I'll explain why this isn't impressive or meaningful below), and lifts some rocks (which Luke did pretty much on day one on Dagobah).

Why beating Kylo Ren isn't that impressive:

First, he's not fully trained either. We don't know how much training he got under Luke or Snoke, but we can assume it wasn't a ton, or that it wasn't very effective because...

Second, a lot of what we know about being a jedi is that it's important to control/harness your feelings. Based on that, Kylo obviously still has a long way to go in his training. He's less in control of his feelings than basically every other character in the movie. In that sense, time spent training doesn't necessarily matter; he seems to innately struggle with one of the 'core competencies' for being a powerful force user (controlling/harnessing feelings). Rey seems to have this ability more naturally, as does basically everyone, not because she's amazingly good at it but because he's amazingly bad at it, as we see repeatedly.

Finally, he's had a bit of a disadvantage in both of their fights. In the first, he was gutshot with a fucking bowcaster, and had just murdered his dad. Physically there's no way he's anywhere near top shape, and psychologically there's no chance he's controlling/harnessing his feelings like he should. In the second, he's not interested in actually killing her, so like Vader in ESB, he's just playing out the duel. Could he probably kill her? Sure, just like Vader probably could have just killed Luke in Empire. But he didn't want to, he wanted to TURN Luke, which meant playing out the fight without hurting him too badly while trying to win him over. Kylo Ren is doing basically the same thing during their fight in TLJ, which is why he doesn't beat her.

How the hell they could miss this golden opportunity is beyond me...

Just imagine, as Ackbar swivels his cair around and points the cruiser at Snoke's ship, a look of shocked realization hits Hux, and with a voice full of panic he yells:

"It's a trap!!!"

Yes, brown-skinned character named Ackbar suicide bombing in a flying ship.

I can hear the backlash from here.

Apparently the VA for Ackbar died before the movie was filmed and they didn't want to replace him so they got rid of him without giving him any lines.

The only problem I can see is with Akbar being so established, people would question Poe going against him a lot more.
As it stands, Poe is rebelling against an unknown, apparently foolish, commander.

I'm Mary Poppins y'all!

Sadly enough it actually would have been. Using hyper drive like that on the enemy ships completely wrecks the Star Wars Universe. Because if it was that simple, why didn't the Rebels just build cheap empty unmanned ships with only hyper drive engine and shoot it through the Empire's giant ships to win battles every single time?

Impossible to dodge, complete destruction and it's probably 0.00001% of the cost and materials of those Juggernaut ships from the Empire.

My god that was amazing!

holy shit, I laughed way harder at this than I was expecting

This doesn’t even seem out of place as far as how the new Star Wars is being treated.

Everytime I see the hyperdrive suicide scene it pisses me the fuck off to think about the dude in the theater that went "DAAAAMN!" at the top of his lungs. Like I hear it in my head when I see it.

But why wouldn’t she do this before the explosion?

Kek that was good

Oh god no.

Wrong-o, buddy. You can survive about 90 seconds in the vacuum of space with minimal effects. In fact, Guardians of the Galaxy has one of the more believable scenes about this.

The Clone Wars cartoon had a precedent for force users being able to survive in space for longer than one might expect iirc.

She’s a Disney Princess now... pretty sure they aren’t allowed to die on screen. We are unlikely to ever hear of her death in movies.

Ackbar has been the series since the first movies, and he got the most unceremonious death ever.

You were supposed to believe that character was a coward and an idiot before the ultimate plan was revealed though, wouldn't have worked with Ackbar. The deception seemed kind of pointless in the end, but that's another story.

[deleted]

I didn't see any other kind of airlock door when she re-entered the ship. They just opened the door and were like "Oh, sup L-dawg". There should have been some kind of depressurization or at least like a strong pull out that door when it opened.

So you're telling me it makes sense that Luke, a much stronger Jedi, died after only projecting himself but Leia who has never been strong with the force survived just fine in outer space? Total BS. If she would have died at that point it have made the movie a lot better.

Whoah there buddy that sounds like an actual story instead of maintaining the balance to make more movies without actually progressing anywhere.

What if Finn found Rey and a weakened Kylo together after the throne battle, and Rey actually defends Kylo because she believes there's good in him? What if Finn declares Kylo is a murderer who should be put down - reminding Rey of Luke's words - and she ignites the red saber as she stands between Kylo and Finn?

Can you imagine the shitstorm from whining fanboys when they realize this is not original at all, but instead a rehash of the Anakin/Palpatine/Windu scene, even down to the characters' skin colors?

Yup, that could work. But the film had many additional problems besides that scene.

No, no, you missed Rian's vision. We must throw away direction and common sense to swerve the audience because its cool!

You listed the essential key to keeping us interested...loose threads that actually leave you wanting more.

How do you sell Rey toys impressionable young girl and boys then?

[deleted]

I think that this is what Johnson wanted to do but disney wouldn't let him go that far towards messing with the formula on the main trilogy. I think that's why they've given him his own trilogy for that.

KYLO (BEN) and REY stand among the corpses of the Imperial Guard, breathing hard from the fight they just concluded. They share a long look, and REY is about to speak, when the deck staggers, the lights flicker, and they both stumble.

PA SYSTEM: Catastrophic hull breach. All hands abandon ship. Proceed to nearest escape pod. All hands abandon ship.

REY: It's over Ben. Come with me. We can rejoin the Rebels and see the final destruction of the First Order.

BEN: (Angrily) No. You're still living in the past. You still don't get it.

REY: (Confused) What?

BEN: All this! Sith vs Jedi. Dark vs Light. This has been going on for generations! Vader and Skywalker, you and me... and what does the galaxy have to show for it? Alderran destroyed. Hosinan Prime destroyed. Three Death Stars filled with people destroyed. And now...

(he gestures towards a window filled with burning Star Destroyers)

...all this.

Let's just stop. No more Empire. No more Rebels. No more Sith. No more Jedi. Let's just go somewhere and live our lives.

REY: (Alarmed and suspicious) Like as a couple?

BEN: (Rolls eyes) Don't be stupid. We go together so we can keep an eye on each other and make sure we stay out of it.

(more intensely)

But we stay out of it. No more manipulating the galaxy. Let it fend for itself. It deserves the chance.

(pleading)

Come with me.

REY looks out the window at the carnage, then around her, finally settling on Snoke's bisected corpse

REY: (quietly) So much death....

she meets BEN's gaze

REY: Alright. Let's find a ship and go.

I would have liked more if they also revealed that rey was palatines' great grandchild and she joined snoke only for kylo to realize his mistakes and return to the light side and having him try to return to Luke who tries to teach kylo a lesson only for Finn to step in thinking he is going to kill him and then its revealed Finn has force sensitivity and is actually mace windus grandchild who then would quickly learn to use the force and fight with a saber. Kylo and Finn would fight rey at some point beating her for her only to progress and be taught more by snoke and then going back and tearing kylo and Finn apart this time only to be defeated by grandmaster Luke, who does the same as he did with Vader and using the anti dun mock to bring her to the light while fighting her (and it isn't a contest he wins) she asks for forgiveness and is then trained in the light side fully and it comes to a head when they fight snoke who is far more powerful than any of them truly realize and luke must fight him as its revealed that snoke followed the rule of many and all of lukes former students are now sith.

The sequel trilogy plot is being made up as they go unfortunately

Reset button? This was one giant filler episode. The only lasting development is kylo taking over, rey deciding to learn the force independently and fin finding a love interest.

3 separate groups of writers/directors wrote each of the new trilogy. Sounds like a completely idiotic way to go about it.

Revenge of the MacGuffin, obviously.

Yet another film about sith vs jedi with no development

The last thing anyone should be saying after a star wars movie is I don't care what happens next. Yet Disney was able to somehow produce a film they does exactly that.

They want the Transformers idea of story, each one is nearly untethered by the previous, and well it worked. Just make it look cool and people will keep going.

As a SW fan I would really like to see a different ending than good side wins

TLJ stressed that the Force is about BALANCE. It's not about the Light side needing to eliminate the Dark side or vice versa. It is a balance, and someone in movie says something like "when one side grows stronger, the other does too". Implying when Kylo was born force sensitive and went dark that Rey was growing in her Force sensitivity on the light side. They need to meet in the middle which would be a cool storyline to explore imo.

Episode five ends on a down note.

Darth Vader being Luke's dad is to this day still one of, if not THE biggest spoiler moments in movies.

Also Luke ditching training to go save his friends, Leia being his sister and his dad being one of the most evil guys in the universe.

It may not have had LOTS of depth, but it had enough

The original Trilogy wasn't deep because it was the beginning of the story, depth should build as you add more too it.

Knights of The Old Republic

Exactly nobody even knows what nights of the old republic fucking is the people are pissed off about Star Wars are original trilogy diehards

Yeah and that wouldn't be Star Wars by Disney.

But even Captain America: Civil War had more depth than The Last Jedi. It's not like Disney is scared of creating an interesting story with its films. Coco had even more depth than The Last Jedi.

Kathleen Kennedy and "The Lucasfilm Story Group" really fucked up by basically prolonging The Galactic Civil War even after the death of Darth Vader, making the sacrifices of the Rebellion even more pointless. Oh, you defeated Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine? Too bad! The war still goes on. Nice try Luke. Who cares?!

You can't really blame this on Disney. There isn't anyone in the Original Trilogy either where it's at all confusing if they are a good guy or bad guy. Probably the closest you come to is Boba Fett, but that is only in the extended universe. In the movies he is clearly a baddy.

If you want risky characters like Jamie Lannister then a billion dollar movie isn't the place to find them.

Yes, because TLJ was a simple goodies vs baddies with no middle ground whatsoever. Nevermind Rey and Kylo empathizing with each other or Luke’s brief horrendous thought.

And the second Star Wars stops making so much money they will drop it because they've already recouped their investment.

Kotor 2 was the better written game but Kotor 1 absolutely did bring the idea that the dark side isn't inherently bad and the light side isn't inherently good. In fact kotor 1 was my first exposure to the star wars universe and was dissapointed when I watched the original trilogy that it was a plain good vs evil with no nuance (since then I came to appreciate the original trilogy for what it is)

The performances were honestly fine I'd say, I'll agree with you on that point. The chemistry they tried to develop over the course of the movie with the force conversations and even the climax after the showdown with snoke's imperial guard were interesting at points. The actors' performances however is entirely different from the writing and character development within the story, which is the greater issue.

Episode VII did leave a lot of things unexplained and under-expolored, I'm not trying to hold it up as some sort of pinnacle of how to tell a good Star Wars story. The main thing most people seem to have a problem with though is that the advancements it did make were either literally tossed aside in this follow-up or downplayed to make it seem less important (i.e. Luke's lightsabre and Rey's parents as only a couple examples.)

It's just a wonder to me why they decided to go the directions they did take, it's obviously led people to feel underwhelmed with the whole experience and honestly killing excitement for the next movie, myself included.

That's interesting. I really dislike driver in both the new movies.

I actually thought Daisy was pretty wooden in this movie. Maybe it was the writing.

I think the main reason Episode VIII is so frustrating to watch and the reason many fans feel disillusioned in the ways Johnson had taken the story is that the stakes were raised so much in favor of the threads and plot-lines it introduced while seemingly ignoring all the groundwork Episode VII had been seeming to set up.

This is where the main point of subverting expectations has gotten all the fanbase in some large tizzy. No one really feels satisfied in what was presented, since it could have been taken in so many different directions. The movie has already been released obviously so we're stuck with what we got, and not all of it is even bad mind you, it's just certain expectations I think were built in people's heads for a reason.

Are you saying him killing his father makes him irredeemable

In a traditional story telling sense, I think you summed it up there friend. In my mind, Kylo Ren would have been a much more interesting character if he were written in a way that was completely subserveant to Snoke and ever searching for a greater power within the dark side. Really give us an understanding of why Luke would be so fearful of some wimpy kid turning with practically no training. It's here that more backstory and how Snoke was able to transform Kylo Ren initially would've been beneficial.

There's a whole back story explaining Luke and Ren's conflict

It's only like three scenes in the movie where we are given actual glimpses of the past between the two characters, not nearly enough focus is given on this thread.

It just seems odd that such a great character design set up with so much potential in the previous Episode seems thrown out the window in favor of achieving, like you say, a balance in the force. This is where a lot of people's personal interpretation of how to necessarily achieve that differs from what we are given in the films.

Personally, I side with the idea that balance with the force can only be achieved if the dark side and a desire for ever greater power is shunned. It's why the Jedi are seen as so powerful and were peacekeepers of the galaxy after all. This definition is being redefined with the new trilogy however, and it really is a wonder if we are going to get a better resolution with the next installment.

As of right now, I would say the consensus of how 'The Last Jedi' ended is that Kylo Ren is still evil, attuned and corrupted by the dark side of the force and his hatred for Luke, and Rey and the remnants of the Resistance will have to defeat the First Order once again. So why so much meandering and canonical changes if we're going to end up where we thought anyway? It really feels like there is so much artificial weight to the movie, in its effort to surprise fans that it feels like we aren't even being delivered on a tonally consistent story that fits within the greater universe.

god i hate people who tell me this movie isnt a movie for star wars fans.... like am i not allowed to hate the movie because u said that.

Sexual misconduct is fine if you're a woman!

True just felt she was being shoved down our throats way too much. Really got fed up off.

First episode of the series even.

And it's one of the best episodes of the show. So much intensity and drama that was utterly lacking from the 2+ hour chase scene that was TLJ.

"33"

Great episode.

Honestly, this is my prediction. A big time jump would give them the ability to hand wave away Leia, saying she died of grief for her brothers loss or something, which plugs that leaky hole in the haul. Plus the end of TLJ hinted at other Force sensitive people and Rey needing to get her shit together by practicing and reading the ancient Jedi texts so she can train future generations. Episode 2 was a 10 year time jump, and it would make sense for them to do it again now. The Rebels are up shits creek, there's what, like 2 dozen of them now? With a couple droids and one old ship? And the FO isn't having a picnic either, their base of operations and leader got blown the fuck up, we don't really know the extent of damage overall they sustained but it's probably safe to say they have wounds of their own to lick.

A time jump makes sense, not that it matters what does and doesn't make sense, but I can see it happening.

Rey is just going to resurrect everyone important using the force. Including Darth Vader and Anakin.

This is sarcasm. I hope. I... I'm not sure anymore, when it comes to discussion of this movie.

How can a few days of very basic Jedi training equate master level? Regardless of how strong her connection with the force is, all the great Jedi we have seen throughout the series have had years of Jedi training. Even Luke had a great deal of training from Obi-wan

Ahh yes the jedi master Rey who has done nothing and was trained for a few hours before immediately going to the dark side. How believable.

People are whining that they havent gotten to see the Knights of Ren in action as it were. Given that Snoke name checked them in TFA, people had the idea theyd be more important or filled in (as it were).

Theres nothing saying that Rey's visions in Maz's cantina were all flashback in nature (bar perhaps that Kylo is wearing the mask), nothing that suggests the knights were from the others falling to Snoke from among Lukes new trainees. Also, there was no rainstorm when the new temple burned, suggesting perhaps, that Episode 9 will feature Kylo building/leading the Knight.

Its possible that scene was a flash forward, what else is a supreme leader to do but have flunkies and followers, who else is he going to trust, certainly not Hux.

I think youre going to see the Knights of Ren in Episode 9, perhaps serving as Kylo's bodyguards, much as the Emperor and Snoke had their flunkies and bodyguards.

Yeah but according to Finn it was all worth it, to mess up their casino for a little bit before they whip all the stable children slaves to clean it up.

At least with that much material it should be easy enough to fan-edit out some of the most egregiously pointless scenes and jokes and still be left with a whole movie.

[deleted]

I believe "bold new direction" is the term

And salt was underneath.

Lol it did

Keep in mind that major subs get astroturfed after big failures. The people you're upset with might not even be real people.

No, not really. Sorry people liked a movie you didn’t like. I’m sure that’s super hard.

missing this? /s

Who has opinions on how long it takes a Star Wars vessel to about face?

I think it is more about Rey being trained in, oh, 3 or 4 days. Of which the first day she basically just followed Luke around like a shadow.

IT SUBVERTS YOUR EXPECTATIONS!

Or this one. Those are great questions for the expanded universe.

Which means it's perfect to spend an hour on in the next movie!

Merchandising.

And how he replaced it within a few days

Wait, that was C3PO? I didn’t recognize him.

There's literally a comic for that, iirc.

The same reason he had a chrome leg in ANH.

It's a MGSV reference

They fucked up toy production and all the arms on the C-3PO action figures ended up with red arms. Figured it'd be cheaper to just give him an actual red arm than to re-paint all the toys.

^/s

MGSV reference. In the beginning when BB-8 is rolling around Jakku an alien who pops out of the ground says "Kojima"

Already was a one-shot comic about the red arm. It was really good story as it only involved C3-PO and some other droids.

https://imgur.com/gallery/S9OKn

EDIT - Sorry, thought you was talking about the arm.

I don’t remember him taking the Vader helmet from there but maybe I need to rewatch Jedi.

I honestly just wish the first movie of this trilogy were about the Knights of Ren. The second one could have been The Force Awakens. Third one, then could have had elements of The Last Jedi.

Starting the new trilogy with the "Dark" one then going into something a little lighter like The Force Awakens would have been just the right amount of expectations subverted, since everyone anticipated the middle part of the story to follow Empire Strikes Back's "all the good guys lose" plot.

What wasn't explained?

Rey said to Luke "You didn't fail him. He failed YOU". Same thing can be said about Luke and Ryan. Ryan failed HIM!

And an attempted murderer of his own nephew.

such a emo

should have get along fine with Ben Solo then

Looper had many of the same problems as this movie did.

There was a part in Looper where Bruce Willis' character all but broke the 4th wall to tell the audience not to worry about how the movie makes no fucking sense.

This comment sounds like something someone made up to justify how terribly Old Man Luke was handled and written. To act as if Luke didn't have an arch or anything to say in the OT is just counting on people not seeing them.

Was. Don't forget he's dead. So kinda pointless really

The jokes are what absolutely ruined the movie for me. I was ok with the rest of it, despite its flaws. But the jokes... I'm convinced that Rian Johnson drew his inspiration for this movie from Jar Jar and the edits Lucas did to Ep 4-6. He actually thinks that the slapstick humor and your-momma intro faithfully captures the natural comic relief of 3po/R2 and the banter between the original cast.

It seems like the lasting legacy of TLJ is going to be that it united everyone back in favor of TFA. TFA was derivative and it wore that on its sleeve, but now it's clearer than ever that at least it understood Star Wars. I saw a lot of people who were uneasy about JJ being given the third film after Trevorrow was canned -- I wonder how many of them are on board now.

terrible writing, bad acting, and poorly timed, fucking rotten jokes.

I don't think this is true at all, the critic score would not be as high as it is if it were. The main complaints come from the plot of the story rather than the film itself

If you speak that name into a mirror 3 times, he'll find something you love and rape it.

And then she and Leia laugh away Poe's mutiny that almost got the entire resistance killed.

I literally thought that was supposed to be the plan the entire time. She said she would stay back to fly the ship. It seemed like it was implied that she was going to kamikaze. Don't know why it seems she came up with the plan after just sitting on the ship with nothing to do for a while.

Admiral Gender Studies is kinda funny, don't waste your time and energy on pointless personal attacks

Eh the way she talked to Poe was pretty cringey. He's a respected pilot yet she talks to him like a second grade schoolboy. It felt forced, and yeah I think they made a conscious decision to have a woman talking down to Poe like that.

lets look at your posting history

Real classy dude.

Wow those 3 words sure got you riled up

It doesn't bother me in the slightest. I think she is a great character. That scene where Poe tries to mansplain to her and wants to know the plan and she just shuts him down cuz she is such a well written powerful female. It was awesome. Hell she is so woke that she doesn't even wear a uniform in sympathy with those she commands because she knows that uniforms are a symbol of toxic masculinity.

Fucking get em!

u. lol.

It should of been Ackbar who suicided himself, that way Dern could of been in the sequels and taken over for Leia. Further proof of the bad writing/plotting in the movie and by making the leaders female, instead of empowering women, they basically said the Republic failed because women ran it into the ground.

I upvoted you too because this is a valid question.

I'm not up in arms about Holdo, but to me, she just didn't feel like a convincing military leader. It felt like she was created to not look or act like a stereotypical male leader, and they didn't bother to take her any further than that.

Game of Thrones had four non-stereotypical female leaders waging war against a fifth, and it felt totally natural. Holdo, to me, felt contrived.

But there are a baffling number of voices crying foul over the movie because they think it's "SJW"

Check out the user reviews on metacritic and rotten tomatoes. Specifically those negative reviews. It's like 1 out of every 3/4 mentions "SJW" in the review, and how "feminist garbage" ruined Star Wars. I honestly think people see that purple hair and it legitimately pisses them off.

I agree with what you are saying and upvoted you. I think the real issue is that people hate her character for what she is in the movie and venting that.

There is a big difference between you need a clear path to hyperdrive to kamikaze ship destroys half of the fleet.

They literally stipulate that she is piloting the ship to her death while others are boarding life boats...

You do realize that Snoke had a lot of significance right? From what I've seen in TFA, he's a Sith Lord. Old, very powerful, scary looking....and then he gets chopped in half and killed off with no story.

Yeah I was ok with that.

Alright then.

I don’t know what I was expecting...

Smells like victory

Yeah there were sticks, that's what made me wonder how he got them.

So two things:

1) Kylo only confirms Rey’s suspicions, she’s the one who actually says what her parents were. Meaning this wasn’t just out of the blue and there’s some precedent for Rey not having “super” parents.

2) This is not the first time a bad dude has revealed the parentage of someone, and we’ve trusted it every other time. If we are to doubt Kylo then we can just as likely doubt Vader. But we didn’t at the time because of the whole “Search your feelings you know it to be true” part. Luke and Rey search their feelings and know it to be true. Seems pretty cut and dry.

OK, I've got a serious problem with this idea:

Rey is magically good at fucking everything

Its almost like Star Wars has consistently had young characters achieve amazing feats because they have force powers. How did Luke fire a torpedo into the Death Star and survive in the midst of a dogfight, in an x-wing he's never even touched before? He'd never fought in a war before. He did fly his little T-16 around, but that's the equivalent of someone whose flown a puddle jumper suddenly becoming a master jet pilot in a matter of minutes. Hell, Anakin Skywalker was 9-10 and manages to blow up a massive trade federation capital ship, and he'd flown a pod-racer a couple times.

Why are suddenly these actions so much more possible than what Rey did in the first and second movie? Also, lets see what Rey did: she beat up a couple of dudes with a stick, she flew the Milenium Falcon around and blew up 2 tie fighters, helped repair the falcon, she used force powers to mind-trick a guard, and she sort of won a sword fight against Kylo Ren, she used the force a couple more times, and beat a couple dudes (and if I remember they were 1 on 1 fights) in a lightsaber fight. What from Rey's background indicate she could do these feats?

1) She's established to have flown ships before, but only in atmosphere. Fortunately she only flies the Falcon in atmosphere, and is implied to have flown the Falcon before. Also we later see Chewie fly in even more impressive ways in the Last Jedi.

2) She's spent her life repairing or finding junk to sell for food. We find out she was sold as well, yet we find her relatively independent in ep 7, implying further that she is really good at what she does. She also knows quite a lot about the Falcon, and assumedly a lot of other repair related things.

3) She's had training with her stick as she's survived in the wilds. That already gives her enough of an excuse to use it as she's survived for so long in a hostile environment. She may not be a trained master, but with the help of the force we can assume she's probably quite competent (heightened senses, faster reflexes, and whatnot).

4) She's implied to be quite powerful in the force, first offhandedly in ep 7 and then directly in ep 8. She is deigned to be as powerful as if more so than Kylo, who is already a pretty badass force user. Star Wars has also clearly established that having the force makes physical feats so much easier allowing you to: block blaster bolts, guide/aim pinpoint ship shots, fly ships super well, jump high, hit things hard, make stuff float, etc. So it is assumed a powerful force user like Rey would probably be able to: fight well, use basic force powers (mind trick is supposed to be pretty simple, see the "trick" part), fly ships well, do physical stuff.

5) In the first movie Ren got fucking gut shot and was (metaphorically, blasters and probably bowcasters cauterize wounds) bleeding out for his fight against Rey, and despite that he was winning for most of it and didn't want to kill Rey. She was, at best, barely fending off his attacks. Until he put her in a compromised position, when Rey used her wits to defeat her enemy. Something she seems to do a lot.

6) Rey never dominates fights, unless we consider those two dudes at the beginning of ep 7. She is usually on her heels, fights vigorously, and wins by using her wits and catching people unawares. Like using the force to pull something, or dropping her lightsaber to undercut a dude, or using her strength/force to catch a guy on her blade, or to throw something at Ren.

These seem like the actions of someone who is punching above their weight and does so by using wits and chutzpah, something we'd expect from a survivalist living the wilds of a planet repeatedly established as bumfuck nowhere.

Next, even if I was wrong and she is a mary-sue, making her someone important's kid wouldn't make a difference. Because its already been established that she is a powerful force user. Being Obi-Wan's secret kid wouldn't make her any less or more powerful. She's powerful no matter what. The cannon is already established that she outclasses/matches Luke in many ways, and Luke was already supposed to be a really fucking powerful Jedi in the first place. What difference does it make?

Ben Solo. He’s Leia’s kid, and trained by Luke. There’s our familial connection if it’s needed.

Also, I’m not sold that what defines Star Wars is all of this minor stuff that people focus on. Just because a movie/show/book lacks T’wileks and Skywalkers wouldn’t make it not Star Wars. Not everyone in Star Wars has to be related for it to be Star Wars, these are just minor details, it’s the greater lore and universe which matters. Just as Han Solo isn’t defined by wearing a vest, he’s defined by his character and relationships. If the argument is “Rey is a bad character” or “Narratively her parents being unnamed is bad” that seems reasonable (although I disagree with both). But I hate this appearent need for everything in Star Wars to always have the same families/races/characters/plots.

It's not the lightsaber calling to her, it's the force.

Just reading through your comment history, it seems you're upset things didn't play out how you expected and that's a horrible reason to not like a movie.

1. Poorly written, bizarre jokes with inappropriate timing and poor delivery with few exceptions.
2. New characters are mostly poorly written and mostly poorly acted.
3. It seems like the movie was written around these characters, like their inclusion was of paramount importance regardless of harm to the story. What some of the proponents and defenders of this movie forget is that in order for the message of diversity/inclusivity to be effective people have to like the movie first. If the movie is easy to criticize it's easy for regular people to toss it aside and not get the message of love over hate that I guess was supposed to be a theme of this movie?
4. I fully support the inclusion of more women, ethnicities or sexual orientations but I'm not going to call a bad movie good because these boxes were checked. This seems to be where I differ with the twitter slacktivists.
5. Weaponizing hyperdrive is incredibly problematic and destructive to the franchise.
6. The important and interesting questions raised in TFA were seemingly answered by a deliberate middle finger to the audience. It was high school level writing, "Oh you've thought of all the interesting ways we could answer the questions raised in TFA, well how about I choose all the boring ways to answer those questions? Ha, I sure showed you!"
7. Significant structural issues in the story, leading to incoherent or pointless "character arcs".
8. Bizarre unearned romantic thing between Rose and Finn. I can't even call it a subplot, it just happens out of nowhere. Are we supposed to agree with Rose's delusional suicidal crash into Finn over his courageous self-sacrifice to save his friends?
9. As has been shown in interviews and such, Mark Hamill had some issues with his character and Rian's interpretation of the Star Wars cannon. I think his acting was uneven throughout and I personally didn't enjoy Fisher's delivery throughout.
10. Story doesn't even bother with Deus Ex Machina explanations for unbelievable power and abilities and decides instead to not bother trying (e.g. Jedi Master Leia)
11. etc.

1.) The entire resistance is now ~ 20 people. In an entire galaxy?

And that's immediately after they had destroyed the biggest superweapon ever made, killing thousands of their men. If that didnt work as a recruiting tool, then your resistance is doomed to failure.

I see your points...but allow me to provide a few counterpoints.

1. The active and organized resistance...yes. But there's more out there...the spark that lights the flame.

2. Totally agree with you here. It would have been nice to know his background.

3. Yes, to a point. I think it was worthwhile to show the wealth of the people in that city for the payoff of showing that they're arms dealers.

4. It could have been trimmed a bit without losing the payoffs.

5. Not exactly. Luke found his way back to the force...and we also learned that the Force doesn't have to be Jedi vs. Sith. The Force doesn't have to be perfect either dark-side or light-side...there's grey. In other words you don't have to be all good or all bad to use the force.

It wasn't as straightforward as most Star Wars movies....there was more subtlety in this one IMHO. I thought it was good, not great (for some of the reasons you mentioned...some scenes could have been cut...and more info on Snoke would have been nice).

When Palpatine died in RoJ how much did we know about him?

I thought it was good...not great. It was more subtle than what I (and most people) would have expected. Perhaps that was the problem...is that it wasn't like most other Star Wars films.

I'm old enough to have seen in the theater (and remember) the backlash against Empire Strikes Back (which is now recognized to be perhaps the best Star Wars film).

Edit: Holy crap, I didn't recognize the downvotes until you pointed it out. Anyone that was either OK with the film or liked it is getting downvoted. Yeesh.

I think the downvotes are because that commenter called the feedback “rabidly negative” like people don’t have legitimate criticism.