[deleted] · 4242 points · Posted at 19:59:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
For those who didn't read the article, it explains that the Hebrew for Jesus and Joshua are variations of each other, but not quite identical names. If Jesus becomes Joshua, Joshua should become Jehoshua or something similar.
In Hebrew, the names are approximately Yeshu, Yeshua, and Yehoshua. All of these names imply divine deliverance. Which figures carry which names can differ between books, but they are internally consistent.
The rest of the explanation (how we got the 's' on the end from greek and latin) is all accurate.
The English word for Japan came from early trade routes. The word stems from a Malay word Jepang, which was brought over to the UK by some lovely Portuguese folks. It was first seen in English in 1577 as Giapan.
This is the source of a lot of names in linguistic history. Some group hears about a place or person or thing second- or third- hand, and that translation becomes commonplace before the real origin or source of the name becomes clear.
I'm pretty sure Eskimo and Inuit do not refer to the same groups of people. Kind of like a rectangle vs square kind of situation or something? I'm not positive though.
Same people, but Eskimo is considered derogatory in Canada and Greenland, but it's acceotable in Alaska. "Eskimo" also includes an Alaskan group that does not consider themselves "Inuit".
"Eskimo" also includes an Alaskan group that does not consider themselves "Inuit".
I guess that's what I meant with the rectangle/square thing. I didn't know that Eskimo was derogatory in Canada, so that's good to know. I just know that in Alaska, not all Eskimos "call themselves Inuits" as the comment I replied to said, because the Yupik people aren't Inuit. Or at least that's how it was 20 years ago when my mom lived up there (at least that's how I understood what she told me).
Eskimo was the name given to the Inuit by a different native group (I want to say Iroquois? They were eastern, anyway). In Canada (and Greenland) the far arctic people are all Inuit, so they take offense to the word Eskimo. In Alaska only some are Inuit, so lacking a more suitable word to refer to all (three?) groups there, they use the word Eskimo to include everyone.
roganth · 8 points · Posted at 03:36:33 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not all Eskimos are Innuit. It is like if Chinese found the word Asian to be insulting and we must use Chinese instead of Asian. We then would need to say Japanese are Chinese, Indians are Chinese.
idio3 · 2 points · Posted at 04:41:29 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Kind of. Inuit refers to a more exclusive mostly Canadian group of people. Eskimo is a wider grouping of circumpolar population.
[deleted] · -2 points · Posted at 13:31:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Look it up then jackass
Some groups in USA refer to themselves as Eskimo.
idio3 · 1 points · Posted at 04:39:16 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
There is an ethnolinguistic group called "Samoyedic People" in the north of Russia. The problem with that name is that it means "self-eater" in Russian. Their official name was thus changed during the more politically correct Soviet times, but the article is still there in English wikipedia :).
[deleted] · 75 points · Posted at 00:35:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Sioux" is Ojibwe for "little snakes"
You probably know this but for others, the "sioux" (pronounced 'sue') people actually call themselves Lakota
[deleted] · 14 points · Posted at 04:07:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
http://etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=sioux
Sioux
group of North American Indian tribes, 1761, from North American French, short for Nadouessioux, sometimes said to be from Ojibway (Algonquian) Natowessiwak (plural), literally "little snakes," from nadowe "Iroquois" (literally "big snakes"). Another explanation traces it to early Ottawa (Algonquian) singular /na:towe:ssi/ (plural /na:towe:ssiwak/) "Sioux," apparently from a verb meaning "to speak a foreign language" [Bright]. In either case, a name given by their neighbors; the people's name for themselves is Dakota.
Only some of the Sioux are Lakota. The major modern divisions are Lakota, Nakota, and Dakota, with things further sub-divided by location and then by tribe.
http://etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=nakota
Dakota
1809, name of a group of native peoples from the Plains states speaking a Siouan language, from Dakota dakhota "friendly" (the name often is translated as "allies"). Recorded by Lewis and Clark (1804) as Dar co tar; in western dialects of the Teton subgroup, Lakota, Lakhota; in Assiniboine dialect, Nakota, Nakhota.
I live in a town called Chemung. I once asked a descendant of the native tribe what exactly it meant, and he said that the proper pronunciation is not "Shuh-mung" but "Sha-mook," which means "Big Horn" (after a mastodon horn that was found in the river where the village was founded). Our butchered pronunciation apparently means "smelly place," or something along those lines.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 00:01:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Moine is definitely monk. If you're really pushing it it could be deez buttz, as moine in Quebec is sometimes used to mean butt (mostly in the expression "se pogner le moine" which is a variation on "se pogner le cul" which means doing nothing, dicking around) .
All because they didn't want the French to trade with the "shitheads" on the other side of the river. The French just wanted to know the name of the river.
Source: am couch historian.
arnorath · 123 points · Posted at 23:24:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
“The forest of Skund was indeed enchanted, which was nothing unusual on the Disc, and was also the only forest in the whole universe to be called -- in the local language -- Your Finger You Fool, which was the literal meaning of the word Skund.
The reason for this is regrettably all too common. When the first explorers from the warm lands around the Circle Sea travelled into the chilly hinterland they filled in the blank spaces on their maps by grabbing the nearest native, pointing at some distant landmark, speaking very clearly in a loud voice, and writing down whatever the bemused man told them. Thus were immortalised in generations of atlases such geographical oddities as Just A Mountain, I Don't Know, What? and, of course, Your Finger You Fool."
KapiTod · 2 points · Posted at 00:48:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Mzungu" is the Swahili term for a White person, translating as "those who wander aimlessly". The term came into use around the time European explorers started penetrating east Africa.
Recliners were invented by the great General Maxus Relaxus in the late Roman Empire. Maxus was known for his distaste of eating whilst sitting upright. He also did not care for the mess that was made when he would eat in bed. So Maxus came up with a brilliant compromise. Design something with the comfort of a bed but with less mess like sitting upright. He soon discovered that he could confine his mess to his gut area. Funny thing is Maxus didnt stop inventing there. He realized his desire to have his feet elevated while eating so he would order Trojan slaves to get on all fours so he could prop his feet on their back. Thus the ottoman was created.
You know? I looked this up, and could barely find much on it.
Most places I went to said it means "River of the Monks". Only a few sources mentioned the "shitface" comment, and they weren't very strong sources, just theories.
Does anyone have anything to back this up? It'd be funny if true.
According to the usual story at least, it was because Columbus thought he had arrived in India. His revolutionary idea wasn't that the Earth would be round, but the false idea that it would be much smaller than it really was, which would allow him to sail over the Atlantic to India.
[deleted] · 6 points · Posted at 01:22:49 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
He thought he could sail to the east indies- meaning the Phillipines.
Amongst the australian aboriginal tribes are the unusual: gaj-alivia and andil-jaugwa.
Oj- looks phonetically similar to Gaj-. The Gaj (Oj) will have a common origin somewhere in Asia.
Time frame for vowel development:
U: -100,000 yrs
A: early stone age-neolithic transition
O: -40,000 yrs arrival of modern humans in asia (ng phonetic).
E: post neolithic
I: -18,000 yrs
bronze age
I just watched the movie Arrival last night, and not to be an ad for it, but how words/meanings are translated plays an integral role in the movie. It is very good worth watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFMo3UJ4B4g
Brinner · 3 points · Posted at 23:02:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And 'Idaho' is a fake native word made up by an eccentric lobbyist
I wonder if people would be so proud of their native American name if they knew...
davyk11 · 1 points · Posted at 01:40:53 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
India had this done to them too Mumbai/Bombay still makes little to no sense how they got that name. But India decided they had enough their colonizer's shit and decided to change it back.
No. It's name comes from the Qin Dynasty, which united the warring states of China under its first historical emperor. The autonym Zhōngguó originates with the Western Zhou state founded around 1000 BC.
This doesn't just apply to countries, bit also new phenomenon and new objects, animals etc.
A fascinating example is Typhoon, which comes from the southern Chinese pronunciation: Dai Feng (big wind)... However when this weather was first described in the West people in Europe assumed the word must have been derived from the Greek god of the wind: Typhon, and that his name has spread all the way to China and gradually become corrupted. Hence the weird spelling in English for a 台风
lazy8s · 7 points · Posted at 04:34:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Is typhoon really a house with a broken roof and a tombstone?
I've always looked cross-eyed at the inefficiency of non-Phonetic languages. But this word right here, I mean, I will always remember what those symbols mean. It's a house with a fucked up roof and a tombstone, what better way than to convey they idea of other than that akward ass 'Typhoon'.
Then why do Poles call Germany Niemcy? They're right next to each other
Nihht · 4 points · Posted at 04:11:39 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
German has a lot of different names. It's all about history. The Germans themselves and other Germanic languages call it Deutschland or variants thereof, essentially meaning "land of the people". The region was called Germania by the Romans so in English and other various languages call them Germany or variants thereof. The Poles and other Slavic languages (also Hungarian) call them Niemcy or variants thereof, which originally meant "foreigner" or "mute" (because they speak a different language). A number of Romance languages including French, Spanish, Portuguese, as well as Turkish, call them Allemagne, Alemania or variants thereof because of a tribe in the region from Roman times. The Finns and Estonians call it Saksa or Saksamaa after the Saxons/Saxony. The origin for Latvia and Lithuania's names for it are not as clear.
The French call it L'Allemagne. From the latin alemannia, from alemanni, an honorific meaning "the confederation of German tribes" given to the emperor who, unsurprisingly, defeated some German tribes (tribe?).
"Germany" itself also derives from Latin and referred to some Germanic tribe or tribes, so the origin is similar.
Apparently Niemcy comes from niemiec "German", and the Proto-Slavic for that derives from a word meaning a foreigner, German, or literally "a mute one", which sounds like they got named that because they spoke a different language, Germanic instead of Slavic.
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 01:26:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Canada too. Cartier misunderstood the local word for village: Kanata. Began calling the entire area around Quebec City Kanata, eventually spelled it Canada, and here we are. Given today's geopolitics and culture, calling Canada a village is still quite fitting.
jaguass · 1 points · Posted at 10:29:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah, it's funny when you consider Germany: germans in english, alemanes in spanish, tedeschi in italian. My intuition is that it corresponds to the name of the tribe they met when going to this territory (before when germany was a bunch of tribes).
A common myth about the kangaroo's English name is that "kangaroo" was a Guugu Yimithirr phrase for "I don't understand you." According to this legend, Cook and Banks were exploring the area when they happened upon the animal. They asked a nearby local what the creatures were called. The local responded "Kangaroo", meaning "I don't understand you", which Cook took to be the name of the creature. This myth was debunked in the 1970s by linguist John B. Haviland in his research with the Guugu Yimithirr people.
You're talking about the (now unfortunately extinct) Mbabaram language, where the local word for 'dog' was 'dog.' It's a striking coincidence but it is in fact a coincidence.
Grokent · 1 points · Posted at 05:21:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Or, maybe it's evidence the dogs named themselves! Actually it's even stranger because I don't think we even know where the English use of the word dog came from since hound was the more common name.
Here's another one. Westerners used to call Beijing "Peking."
Peking Duck is just another way of saying Beijing Duck. But when westerners decided that Beijing is a more accurate romanization than Peking, the famous dish never changed its name. PEK is still the airport code for Beijing Capital International Airport too.
jlking3 · 123 points · Posted at 22:44:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Is this a similar story to how Bombay became Mumbai?
Joltie · 170 points · Posted at 22:54:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes. In both cases, it wasn't westerners deciding that one pronounciation was better than the other.
Peking was how the Southern Chinese people where the Portuguese did most of its commerce called the city, so that's how the Portuguese called the city, and in turn, that's how the rest of Europe and the world called the city. Then in the last few decades, the Communist Party developed a romanization of the Chinese scripts by the standard Mandarin pronounciation. In the new romanization made by the Chinese, the city was translated into Bei-jing. So over the last few decades, the English media and population started saying Beijing rather than Peking. Latin languages, such as French, Portuguese and Spanish, still call the capital Peking or a variation thereof.
In regards to Bombay - Mumbai, Bombaim was the name the Portuguese gave to the bay, which became the name of the city that they governed for a while and then gave it to the English in a dowry in the 17th century, which became anglicized as Bombay.
Much more recently the Indian State government decided to change the name for a variety of reasons, including to strengthen local culture, and to clear the vestiges of European imperialism.
We've only started doing that very recently tho and not even in all places. Traditionally it has been called "Pekín", as old books or idioms like "Aquí y en Pekín" demonstrate.
yamayo · 2 points · Posted at 13:32:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
OP said "French, Portuguese and Spanish" and I just had in mind France, Portugal and Spain, as they are so close. Sorry about that, no downvotes for you!
You could have fooled me. I was under the impression that Portugal had conformed to pin-yin, then again I left Portugal back in 1999 (last millennium).
De qualquer forma essa merda é tudo chinês para mim.
Joltie · 3 points · Posted at 23:55:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You could have fooled me. I was under the impression that Portugal had conformed to pin-yin
I was talking about what people usually say. But even in official Portuguese, Pequim is still the proper way to say it.
then again I left Portugal back in 1999 (last millennium).
Nah, I've also heard portuguese speakers call it "Beijing" but I believe it's more of a current development. Because "Pequim" is still the portuguese correct/traditional form of saying it.
I don't mean to be rude, but I'm curious: what is your first language? Your English is extremely good but you made the small mistake of using "how" with "call", a common error I've seen while teaching English as a second language. If English is your first language, from whence do you hail? I'm just curious if this is a regionalism or something along those lines. If English is indeed a second/third/etc. tongue for you - wow, well done, but I have a small tip: always use "what" with "call", not "how" - "what the Portuguese called the city," for example.
Joltie · 9 points · Posted at 01:11:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
My native language is indeed Portuguese.
Thanks for both the compliment and for the correction. I'll be sure to use it. ;)
While "what" does sound a bit better than "how" is not a horrible mistake by any means. Don't worry about that :) I hear "how" used like that often enough in spoken English
Your written English is better than most native speakers! That's why I was curious in the first place.
It is a small correction. From my limited experience in learning other languages and teaching others, this rule is unique to English. I see it online a lot.
If English is indeed a second/third/etc. tongue for you - wow, well done, but I have a small tip: always use "what" with "call", not "how" - "what the Portuguese called the city," for example.
Native English speaker here. That's a very bad rule, very far from always being true.
Who is very often going to be the proper adverb used with called, and how isn't necessarily incorrect - especially not here where we're discussing pronunciations and proper nouns collectively.
The question isn't simply which proper noun is being used, but how that proper noun came to be used.
Yes, there are many more instances where what is proper and how is not. This is not one of those instances where it is so cut and dry. What is also not always the adverb to be used with call.
Hopefully stop teaching your ESL learners to "always" use rules that might be applicable 60% of the time at best.
1Down · 6 points · Posted at 01:08:02 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Not the person you replied to but I'm a native English speaker from California and I thought saying "how x calls y" was something that's ok. At least I thought it was ok when used in the context of how something sounds.
Bombaim was the name the Portuguese gave to the bay
Oh... My... God...
Bombaim>Bom baim> Bom Bahia
Bom Bahia = Good Bay in Portuguese
You just blew my mind sir.
SidJag · 5 points · Posted at 01:01:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
I don't think Bombay/Mumbai falls into this linguistic discussion- as there was no original Indian city, called 'Mumbai'.
It was always a trading post, created by Europeans, so when nationalistic politicians decided to change Bombay to Mumbai, there was no cleaning of imperialism, just a thick coating of misplaced nationalistic pride for the sake of populism.
Same for the southern city of Madras changing to Chennai, or the eastern Indian city of Calcutta, which served as the capital for the British Raj for the longest time, to Kolkata.
Oh, incidentally, in Hindi, all Christians across India, and in all Churches, and in all Christian prayers, recitals etc, Jesus is called Yeshu. It seems odd that the Hindi pronunciation is exactly that of the Hebrew one, while the anglicized one has become Jesus - I'm guessing the fact that Christianity coming to India via the Portugese and not the English, had something to do with it.
Edit: Thanks for all the inputs, gives more learning to me, but it seems, the jury is still out about who originally got the Christian faith to the Indian subcontinent - so far, I've read about Portugese, Persians and Apostles.
Indian legend is Jesus didn't ascend after the crucifixion but took a tour of the east through India spreading the good word.
Joltie · 4 points · Posted at 01:52:11 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't think Bombay/Mumbai falls into this linguistic discussion- as there was no original Indian city, called 'Mumbai'.
It was always a trading post, created by Europeans, so when nationalistic politicians decided to change Bombay to Mumbai, there was no cleaning of imperialism, just a thick coating of misplaced nationalistic pride for the sake of populism.
I'll admit that I don't know the city's history so I'll defer on that discussion. About the Indian nationalism, I've had quite a humorous encounter with it here on reddit for having dared to question false historical facts, that left me some lasting impressions.
Oh, incidentally, in Hindi, all Christians across India, and in all Churches, and in all Christian prayers, recitals etc, Jesus is called Yeshu. It seems odd that the Hindi pronunciation is exactly that of the Hebrew one, while the anglicized one has become Jesus - I'm guessing the fact that Christianity coming to India via the Portugese and not the English, had something to do with it.
Christianity didn't come to India via the Portuguese. It came via one of the Apostles of Jesus. Which might be the explanation for Jesus' name in Hindi.
When the Portuguese arrived in India, they did find Indian Nestorian Christians.
Besides, Jesus' name in Portuguese is, unsurprinsingly, since Portuguese is a Latin language: Jesus.
Similar but not exactly. Beijing and Peking are different transliterations of the same word. Mumbai and Bombay are different words and the renaming is controversial with many of its residents. I don't think there are many people from Beijing who insist they're from Peking whereas there are many people from Mumbai who are proud to use the word "Bombay" to describe their city.
"The name Mumbai is an eponym, etymologically derived from Mumba or Maha-Amba—the name of the Hindu goddess Mumbadevi—and Aai, "mother" in Marathi. The former name Bombay had its origins in the 16th century when the Portuguese arrived in the area and called it by various names, which finally took the written form Bombaim, still common in current Portuguese use. After the British gained possession in the 17th century, it was anglicised to Bombay, although it was known as Mumbai or Mambai to Marathi and Gujarati-speakers, and as Bambai in Hindi, Persian and Urdu. It is sometimes still referred to by its older names, like Kakamuchee and Galajunkja. The name was officially changed to its Marathi pronunciation of Mumbai in 1996."
Northern Chinese people also called it Peking once. Peking to Beijing involves a few very common sound changes in languages - changing an unvoiced P to a voiced B, diphthongizing the "e" to an "ei", and palatalizing a K sound to a J sound.
In Dutch Peking is still used when talking about Beijing. I even think when someone would say Bejing half of the Dutch speaking People on the Planet don't even know what is meant.
"Beijing" is in pinyin which was developed by a Chinese man, Zhou Youguang, and published by the Chinese Communist Party in 1958.
"Peking" is in Wade-Giles, developed by Wade and Giles (Westerners).
If you follow the pronunciation conventions used to read Wade-Giles correctly then "Peking" sounds closer "Beijing" than one would think.
Wade-Giles also wasn't necessarily based on the Beijing dialect (basis for standard Mandarin) whereas pinyin is based more upon standard Mandarin pronunciation.
I'm a fan of the Persia/Iran distinction. Iranians have always called themselves some version of that word. Westerners inherited "Persia" from early Greek contact and have only since about WWII have even started using the name Iran.
I guess English retained "Pekingese", too, for the dog breed
igvig · 2 points · Posted at 04:11:43 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Actually, I've heard folks speaking other Chinese languages (Hokkien, if I remember, very close to Taiwanese) pronounce it something like Peh-Ching (not a linguist, sorry), with a very strong "Ch". So the original western spelling may have been arrived to from other folks pronouncing it differently.
ROK also calls Korea hanguk 한국. I'm not sure if it's a case of domestic vs international name or just multiple names i.e. 'u.s., the states, freedomland etc.'
p660R · 3 points · Posted at 23:28:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I was under the impression that the Bejing/Peking thing had to do with the way used to Romanize the Chinese languages (something like Wade-Giles vs. Pinyin).
Because the sounds have no exact European counterpart. Pinyin "b" / Wade-Giles "p" is unvoiced and unaspirated, i.e. somewhere in between an English "b" and "p".
Because of our English roots. Due to so many conflicts between the English and French common words in the English language that have French origins are pronounced differently. Lets try this out, the next time you see a POM ask him or her to pronounce the word "fillet"
Yeah, but most people pronounce the local spot weird and if they're at a 7th grade education or better will say the global/historical place correctly. I live in Ohio and hear this shit all the time.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:10:08 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
gootwo · 1 points · Posted at 00:11:18 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
English person.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:13:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
gootwo · 1 points · Posted at 00:18:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No one knows really - it's generally believed to be a derogatory contraction of 'pomegranate' as English people turned bright red in the hot sun of their colonial territories, like a pomegranate, but the actual origin is now lost to the mists of time.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:25:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
gootwo · 1 points · Posted at 07:47:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
We said Prisoner of Mother England growing up, but that really doesn't make sense.
saarl · 3 points · Posted at 00:15:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It was pronounced PAR-ees in Old French, and that's how people pronounced it in English back then too. Later the pronunciations changed both in English and in French, but the spelling remained the same in both.
edit: the same thing happened with other words such as 'image'
Confoederatio Helvetica, which is the Latin translation of "Swiss Confederation". Helvetica comes from the Helvetii, a Celtic tribe that once lived in the area that's now Switzerland.
Historical contexts. A little like calling America "the Colonies." I only knew it because it's the name of a restaurant. They only chose it because it's trivia.
Pylons · 1 points · Posted at 07:32:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Marco Polo called it "Cipangu".
Odusei · 0 points · Posted at 01:16:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't think he wants the historical reason we call it that, he wants to know why we still call counties and cities by the wrong name.
Some of them are just bizarre. The capital of Greece is Athena, not Athens.
Why the fuck do we call it Japan when they call themselves Nippon?
The answer is because we historically derived a different name for the place. We have never corrected ourselves. The question seeks explanation, not justification. The answer is an explanation. Not sure why this isn't clear.
Germany (English) - Deutschland (German) - Tyskland (Danish) - Germania (Italian) - Alemania (Spanish) - Vokietija (Lithuanian) - Nemecko (Slovakian) - Saksa (Finnish)
Edit: a map.
iulioh · 81 points · Posted at 22:52:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Italian here
The even weirder part is the fact that the people in "Germania" are called "Tedeschi"
I guess it's subjective but I don't think those sound similar at all. I don't know your background but the "sch" in "tedeschi" is pronounced like "sk" and not like the "sch" in "deutsch".
I don't think you can call "tedeschi" pretty close to "tysk" only because they share the "t" and "sk" sound. ¯\_(ツ) _/¯
Tedeschi/tedesco is from theodiscus which is latinised from the older word responsible for Deutsch. Etymologically they're linked, despite pronunciation changes
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 02:09:00 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, it's not that bad. The Dutch used to be the same people as the Germans just five centuries ago. Since they've become independent, the difference between them and Germans grew till they became two different nations. But the name in English stayed.
xTRS · 1 points · Posted at 05:01:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I just realized that I'm glad I didn't watch animaniacs through puberty or I'd probably have a fetish for nurses. I don't know a single nurse so my life would be unfulfilled.
Eh, everyone has different kinks and preferences and such. Nurses are common, but not universal. And very few nurses these days wear the stereotypical/historical outfit. And there are a lot of male nurses now, too. :)
But actually, if you haven't watched much Animaniacs in a long time, give it another go and you might catch a LOT of adult-oriented humour you might've missed as a kid. :)
The Alemanni were actually an early Germanic tribe that the Romans encountered. Since Italian doesn't follow the pattern of French and Spanish, I can only guess the Franks are the ones that carried the name over after conquering the tribe. I would certainly be interested in that linguistic history.
that doesn't explain why its called Almanya in turkish, though
pjk922 · 3 points · Posted at 04:15:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm guessing the name just stuck there. This is a complete crapshoot but Rome -> Byzantine (eastern Roman Empire) -> ottomans -> turkey, and they just kept the name?
I find it interesting that the western romance languages (Spanish, Portuguese, French) and the Eastern romance languages (Italian, Romanian) have such a disconnect. The name is more geographical than root language based.
Alemans were a Germanic tribe, the southwestern dialects of German (including Swiss German) are in fact still grouped as "Alemannisch". So no surprise that western romance speakers had more contact with them
Alemans were a Germanic tribe. "German" means something like " spear man" and was the self description of some tribes that had contact with the Roman world
Nemecko or Niemcy (in Polish) literally means 'those who do not speak'. When Slavs met Germans for the first time, they could not communicate hence the name (Also note that a lot of Germans lived in Poland making rather hermetic communities).
Why Hungarians call them as Slavs do I have no idea.
You forgot the French name for Germany, Allemangne. Both the Spanish and French names come from the tribal who lived on the border during the Roman Empire. They were called the Allemani, which is believed to come from their name for themselves which meant 'all men' or 'all the men'
The Slavic words for German/Germany come from the word for 'mute', since when the countries were occupied the Germans didn't speak the language or something. Trying to recall what my high school Russian teacher told me but it's something along those lines
Then there's Hungary, which is Hongrie in French, Ungarn in German, Hungría in Spanish, and Венгрия (pronounced Vengriya) in Russian. All of those names are consistent with each other, but what do the Hungarians call Hungary? Magyarország, and they call themselves Magyars. Why nobody else calls them Magyars or their country Magyarland or something similar is beyond me.
Coming into contact with certain tribes (Saxons, Alemannen) before the creation of a unified country leads to some names, but I'm curious where the Lithuanian & Latvian names came from!
And oddly (or not so) in Japanese it's ドイツ which is pronounced something like do-i-tsu. Which is probably the closest if them all (to the modern day name).
The medieval Muslims didn't have this problem. If you were from North of Syria and West of Constantinople you were a Frank, with no need for further clarification.
The French is similar, as they call it Allemagne. Has to do with one of the Germanic tribes that used to live there called the Allemani rather than the Latin name for the area which was Germania.
Yugoslavian here.
We call Germany "Njemačka" and a German person is called a "njemac" (singular, masculine) or a "švabo" (singular, masculine).
I don't know where the Njemačka/njemac words originated but švabo most likely originated from Swabia or Schwabenland which was a region in southwestern Germany.
It's very interesting to think about where all of our common words come from and mutate over time! Etymology is pretty fascinating.
My bad, smarty pants. My father is Croatian, my mother is Serbian, and I was born in what is now Bosnia. Better? A lot easier to say Yugoslavian, ain't it? Especially since I literally represent 3 major groups within the former Yugoslavia.
I find it pretty interesting that the Finnish call us 'Saksa', which I guess resembles the Saxons (Sachsen). Kind of funny, cause there are so many different germanic tribes around and I think mentality is quite 'diverse' here in Deutschland.
drewson · 1 points · Posted at 01:01:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Germany is an interesting case because it sprang out of various tribes, so the neighboring states were referring to specific populations, not the overall state we now know as Germany.
What's equally weird to me is that German olympic uniforms made in Germany by Germans for German athletes say "Germany" and not "Deutschland". Every other country has what they call themselves.
IIRC the usual word (Rossija/Russia, etc.) means something like "Land of the Rus" where Rus are the people known by that name. This is pretty clear in most the Germanic countries e.g. Russland, Rusland, Rússland, Ryssland. But Finnish has Venäjä and Estonian has a cognate, Venemaa. The etymology for that, or at least one hypotheses that said Rus used boats, vene in Finnish & Estonian), and "maa" just means earth/land.
As mentioned above, the English word Japan has a circuitous derivation; but linguists believe it derives in part from the Portuguese recording of the early Mandarin Chinese or Wu Chinese word for Japan: Cipan (日本), which is rendered in pinyin as Rìběn, and literally translates to "sun origin". Guó is Chinese for "realm" or "kingdom", so it could alternatively be rendered as Cipan-guo. The word was likely introduced to Portuguese through the Malay Jipang.
Technically you're right, the best kind of right. It's also the reason that "gook" is a slur.
During the Korean War, Korean refugees/civilians would cry out to the American soldiers for help. The Korean word for America is 미국 which is pronounced "me-gook"; this led the Americans thought the Koreans were introducing themselves as gooks.
OK_Soda · 4 points · Posted at 00:04:55 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Similarly, "nip" is the slur for the Japanese.
jwalk8 · 2 points · Posted at 23:35:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So calling them gooks was basically calling them Americans? that must have confused some Koreans.
This sounds like the old, tired joke that by saying "Ich bin ein Berliner" JFK was saying he was a jelly doughnut. And I imagine that if he was in Hamburg and had said "Ich bin ein Hamburger" people would be saying he was a sandwich.
What he was trying to say is essentially "I'm one of you, I'm a Berliner". In order to say that in German, you'd have to say "ich bin Berliner", not "ich bin ein Berliner". Adding in the "ein" implies an object or something.
Edit: But where the joke comes in is if you were ordering that pastry they're talking about you'd say something like "ich moechte ein Berliner", I would like a Berliner.
And the really funny thing is that the 'me' stands for beautiful. So you have a group of people that have named your country "the beautiful country" totally stoked that your soldiers are here helping them defeat communism, and the soldiers go around and turn it into a racial slur.
America isnt named beautiful country because of helping in the Korean war. The name goes back much further and comes from Chinese. If I have to guess, it's because when the Americas were discovered by eurasians, the nature was untouched by any form of industrialization.
No, it's nothing to do with that. The Chinese name (and therefore the Korean name) for America is simply a transliteration of the sound of the English name. Just like the Chinese name for England is 英国 (pronounced yingguo). 英 normally means "hero", but their reason for using this character wasn't because they thought England is a hero country, they simply used it because the sound matches.
For the same reason, despite 美 meaning "beautiful", their name for America 美国 does not translate as "beautiful country". It just translates as America.
What you are doing is equivalent to saying that the word Germany has any relation to the word germ.
What you describe does make perfect sense. Only, if you ask Koreans, they will tell you that the word for America means "beautiful country". Somehow the understanding of that meaning got passed down from the borrowed Chinese words.
Also, the word for england in Korean is also clearly related phonetically, yanggook, which I have understood to mean western country? Same yang for example as yangpa, western onion, yangbechu, western cabage, and yangbok, western traditional clothes (suit).
But this area of linguistics is not where my research lies, so please dont hesitate to correct my misunderstanding.
Interesting, thanks for the reply. I'm no linguist, and my level of mandarin is only really intermediate, but I am sure of what I wrote in my last post. In Chinese, the ying doesn't mean western, it only refers to england.
It depends on context. Korean people aren't stupid. If you call them " a gook" they are more likely to understand you are misusing "국인" that to think you believe they are a kind of food.
jwalk8 · 2 points · Posted at 00:33:48 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I was there in the early 80s. They seem to have got it by then. They could identify themselves, us, and soup without error. I expect in the 70s they were pretty close or already there.
jwalk8 · 1 points · Posted at 05:25:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I probably wasn't giving enough credit. Even if it did mean soup, I'm sure they could tell by tone. If someone angrily called me a pizza, I would understand disrespect.
We used to call the Germans krauts. They and the French used to call the English roast-beefs. But to keep that trope going we'd have had to call the Koreans kimchis and the Japanese sushis.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:31:48 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
ArchKDE · 6 points · Posted at 22:40:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
*고려. It would be spelled Goryeo in Revised romanization system, and Koryŏ in McCune-Reischauer. The eo/ŏ is pronounced similar the "u" in "bug" in American English.
sometimes the 어 makes a soft "u" sound like bug, but more often its closer to the sound of "au' in "taught". 고려 would be more like the latter.
ArchKDE · 1 points · Posted at 01:34:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The English short "u" is transcribed into IPA as /ʌ/, as is ㅓ. However, when I speak Korean, I pronounce it ever so slightly slightly more back than I would the English short "u". My parents pronounce it exactly the same as I do (both Seoul natives), and my father's parents (both from Chungcheongbuk-do) pronounce it slightly higher than I do, about halfway between /ʌ/ and /ɤ/. However, lip-rounding is a common feature in younger people's speech (reflected in my cousins living in Seoul and Jeonju), which might cause you to interpret ㅓ to sound more like /ɔ/.
There's definitely variation across regional dialects and age, but also, it's not exactly the same for all words. That's all I really meant.
ArchKDE · 1 points · Posted at 01:53:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ah, I see. I personally pronounce ㅓ as /ʌ/ regardless of where the vowel is placed, and still pronounce 고려 as /k̥oɾjʌ/ as opposed to /k̥oɾjɔ/. But I can certainly see how someone else could pronounce it more like the latter.
That makes sense. It seems to me that when a syllable doesnt have a an ending consonent, that people tend to make more of an "aw" sound, at least in Seoul dialect. But though Ive been living here for a long time, I'm not a native speaker, and I could be mistaken.
pokll · 5 points · Posted at 22:38:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
During the Korean War, Korean refugees/civilians would cry out to the American soldiers for help. The Korean word for America is 미국 which is pronounced "me-gook"; this led the Americans thought the Koreans were introducing themselves as gooks.
onacho · 2 points · Posted at 23:18:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh the stories my 84 year old friend tells about his times in the Korean war as a young US soldier. He gave me a color slide of a photo he took of a young North Korean soldier tied to a pole in their encampment. He said the Southern soldiers came and took him away in the middle of the night never to be seen again. He was someone's son, and somewhere nobody knows what happened to him in the end.
yup because it's just korean pronunciation of the chinese letters. Koreans used exact same chinese letters so while I am guessing, it is almost certain koreans took the word from china
As a Cantonese speaker, I find it extremely interesting that when I look at the administrative divisions or names or cuisines of Korea and pronounce their respective Hanja in Cantonese, they all sound awkwardly similar to the Korean latinisation.
In Cantonese, Korea is Hon Kwok, incheon is Yan Chuen (the British latinisation). You won't find that similarity between mandarin and korean, or Japanese and Cantonese
jankay2 · 0 points · Posted at 00:56:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
no Mandarin also has many similar sounding words with Korean. Try counting 1 to 10 in Mandarin and in Korean. You'd be surprised.
myfault · 1 points · Posted at 23:58:43 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The word in portuguese is Japão, phonetically I think that the word comes only from Cipan, the Guó is just extra sound that you don't hear in the portuguese word for Japan.
Basically language is based on use, as in what's popular. There is no real way or correct way to say anything in the grand scheme of things. We basically use the words that we know will communicate our points. Of course, that's just one theory, but one I like very much
Right. I understand where people get the idea "Well if that's what they call themselves, that must be the one correct name" but that doesn't necessarily ring true for language.
If all 7 billion people in the world called me Steve, but I alone insisted my name was Fliboflaggiz, what would you say my "real" name is?
Of course that example is purposely silly to prove a point, but it should call into question why we would consider one name more or less correct than another. Different languages already have all sorts of different words for things, why can't they have different words to describe each other?
Language is about what's useful, the only "right" and "wrong" depends on context (like how your teacher or boss wants things done) and of course some amount of grammatical rules to keep it useful.
I feel it. My completely non-professional opinion about it is that humans get really hung up on meaning and truth. That hang up kind of blinds us to the context of our reality. And of course that context is our own human one. Whatever rules or systems we create are only as effective as people want them to be.
DaSaw · 5 points · Posted at 22:58:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
NO. WORDS HAVE EXACT COSMIC MEANINGS AND I KNOW WHAT THEY ARE. I REFUSE TO ENGAGE IN ANY ACTUAL ARGUMENT, PREFERRING POINTLESS PEDANTRY. </s>
Okay, let's go deeper. Why did the Chinese call it Chippon?
Ansoni · 3 points · Posted at 23:23:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because while Japan and Chinese share a writing system they pronounce the characters differently. Effectively not so different from English Paris (pariss) and French Paris (Parii)
If you look up 日本 (nihon/nippon, both are valid readings in Japanese) on wiktionary you can see all the different pronunciations the word has in different Chinese dialects.
So you're saying they the Japanese and Chinese use the very same symbols for the name of Japan, but they just pronounce them differently?
Ansoni · 2 points · Posted at 00:02:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yep.
Chinese characters aren't phonetic, so people across China whose dialects were originally different languages (whether or not they still are or are just dialects is actually debatable) can read the writing from anyone else in China and completely understand it (provided they can read. There's also the simplified/traditional split but it's fairly common to be able to read both). This was once applicable to a certain degree in Korea and Japan but they've both split very far from Chinese language and their writing systems, while based on Chinese characters, are very distinct now. Japanese still uses them but mixed with derived characters.
X0AN · 5 points · Posted at 22:47:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
As someone with a phonetic Galician name I've yet to come across a native English speaker that can pronounce it correctly.
I lost track of the amount of times English speakers tell me why not just spell it xxx instead.
My name is already phonetic, what you are attempting is to make it phonetic in English and even then it's still quite off as you don't have the same sounds in English but it's better than nothing for English speakers who are never going to say it properly anyhow so may as well make it at least a bit closer.
Which is essentially happens when we translate city/country names.
Holy cow did not know this neither til now and I lived there from 91-95 (admittedly I was just a kid then) The team name Bayern Munich is literally just the state\county name then town of the club like renaming Man Utd as 'Lancashire Manchester' or Arsenal as 'Middlesex London'
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 02:48:39 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Bayern-Munich.
Well fuck me.
jai151 · 2 points · Posted at 22:29:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
They actually do call themselves Japan as well, though that's recently. We (the West as a whole) call them Japan because that was the way it was pronounced in the dialect of China through which we were introduced.
Nisas · 3 points · Posted at 23:52:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's quite fortunate that Japan is actually a word the japanese language can pronounce. Japanese is quite limited in terms of the words they can pronounce because of how their alphabet works. For example, they can't really pronounce alphabet. They'd have to turn it into alufabeto or something.
jai151 · 1 points · Posted at 00:45:48 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Avid anime watcher, so I'm used to the Japan-ized English words. They can usually get pretty close using katakana, at least close enough that it's intelligible.
But it's not really fortunate, it came from a certain dialect of Chinese pronouncing "Nippon", so it wouldn't be too different
English can get away with straight up borrowing names, because English nouns don't carry much descriptive information. But when you're talking about a name that has traveled through Latin or Greek, it can't be used in those languages without being modified.
Also keep in mind that there are different writing systems involved, so "translations" will vary in spelling... and it will be the written name that is transmitted so with repeated translations it gets farther and farther from the phonetic original.
I do think that Anglicization is pretty pointless and annoying, though.
jted007 · 1 points · Posted at 22:58:11 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Why do we call it the Netherlands when they call it Dutch land? The Netherlands is essentially the same thing I call my private parts. I call them my nether regions.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:01:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Relevant: in Japanese, they call Jesus イエス (iesu, pronounced like "yesu"), so they're using a name translated from Hebrew to Greek to Latin to English to Japanese.
Pronouncing "Jesus" in Japanese is pretty tough, so ironically their adaptation of the name from English sounds more similar to Joshua/Yeshu/etc. than Jesus does.
Also, the American pronunciation of "Jesus" is very easy for Japanese. They would say ジーザス, which would sound vitually identical to the American pronunciation, as the "u" sound is often omitted when a word ends in "su", as in です or いきます.
The deeper question is why would we call them by a phonetic bastardization of their name when it actually signifies something in the language it is in? You should call Japan "Land of the Sun's Origin" and China "The Middle Kingdom"
A simple example is the country "Chile". Most anglophones will pronounce this as /'tʃɪlɪ/, whereas the original pronunciation is /'tʃɪle/. (If you don't read IPA, basically the last syllable sounds like the "eh" sound the "e" makes in "men" or "den"). Anglophones are perfectly capable of pronouncing that /e/ sound, and have no trouble saying the word the way it is originally. So, why don't we? Well, we're just not used to ending a word with an /e/ sound. It feels "weird". So, given a choice between saying it "correctly" and making up a new pronunciation that feels less weird, guess what we opt for 95% of the time? Hence the "translation" of proper nouns.
Derwos · 1 points · Posted at 23:23:20 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I've come across that opinion about Japan's pronunciation before. But I can't understand what it is about the pronunciation of Japan that's different from saying Germany instead of Deutschland. It's just how we say it here. So what? There's nothing wrong with that.
I didn't know this until now. I had never thought about this before (just as a general idea), I feel as if my eyes have been opened a bit, almost a little ignorant, but my mind is blown nonetheless - and for that I thank you :)
Different cultures will have names for land areas other than their own before that land area establishes a name for itself in its own language.
Example, the French word for Germany is "Allemagne," having been derived from a name for that land area before it was communicated that the people of that area called it whatever they did in their own language (modern German: Deutschland).
Same reason we call Zhong Guo (directly translated as "middle country"), China. Early explorers misinterpreted what they assumed was the name of the country.
Because a lot of the time, the original name in the original language have sounds that do not exist in the new language. Even "Nippon" is not an entirely accurate transcription. The syllable represented by "on"[on] is not a possible syllable in English, so English speakers will pronounce [ni'pon] it as [ni'pɑn] or [ni'pə͡ʊn].
Even more potent examples can be found in languages with more restricted phonologies, like Mandarin. Take the name of the city "Fresno" for example. In Mandarin it is transliterated as 弗雷斯诺 (fú léi sī nuò) because the syllables found in "Fresno" are not legal syllables in Mandarin.
The point is that no two languages share identical phonologies so that each and every word can be perfectly transliterated. There will always be discrepancies that force adjustment.
Actually it's either Nihon or Nippon (roughly, "the origin of the sun": pretty full of themselves...). There's two ways to say it.
China on the other hand has a few names but it should be Zhongguo (the middle kingdom, i.e., they thought it was the center of the world, those cheeky b's) or Zhonghua. China apparently comes from the Qin dynasty.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:28:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
TIL Japan is actually Nippon.
Now Snow Crash talking about the Nipponese makes so much more sense.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:30:30 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's just linguistic evolution. Japan sounds similar to Jipin which is similar to Nippon. Consider that jipin is just Nippon in a slightly German accent, and it bocmes clear that it's just people's accents. Japan is a flat a Americanization of that German corruption of Nippon.
nae_co · 1 points · Posted at 00:39:11 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
And that's the Chinese name anyway. Think about it: why would Japanese people call their land 日本 (sun origin) if they're fucking sitting on it? It comes from the Chinese perspective: oh those islands that lie where the sun comes from.
The name of Japan is actually kinda weird. There's no legally official name although 日本 is written in the Constitution etc. But! Even within Japan there are two ways to read it: Nihon and Nippon.
日本 = ?
You could either applaud the government’s indecision as a way of saying that they had bigger issues to deal with, or you could criticize their “Don’t worry man, it’s cool” attitude. Either way, one thing is certain. The name of this country is simply two or three pictograms that legally could be verbally interpreted any way you want, be it Nihon, Nippon, Jippon, Japan, Hinomoto, Yamato, Wa, or Zipangu.
Similar to Japan and Nippon, China is natively called 中国. The Pinyin for it is ZhongGou. Pinyin is based on Latin pronunciations with some slight modifications to fit the nuances of the spoken language. In Pinyin 'zh' makes a sound similar to an English 'J,' except with a lot more air at the start. The best way to accurately achieve the sound based only on English text is a 'ch' sound combined with a 'j' sound. Meaning it would make most sense for English speakers to write 中国 as 'JongGo,' but no. We decided to call it 'China.' Source: US student learning Mandarin
You'll love it in Mandarin then, where it's "riben" as said here. But you can see the origin of Nippon (Even earlier something like Juppon, but the J sound changed to N and the "P" is also in the process of going away) in Cantonese also here
Canada tried. When the white mans first arrived and asked what the place was called, the natives misunderstood, pointed to their village and said "Kanata" (village).
I mean even though they stole their land, murdered them, brought disease, A+ effort on naming their land.
Did you know that the correct pronunciation of Mexico is "May-he-co"?
Fun fact, the "x" was the old Spanish "j", which has an "h"-like sound in Spanish. In Spain, some textbooks listed the country's name as "Méjico" after the "x" was replaced by the "j" in regular speech, but the country decided to keep the old spelling and pronunciation.
because pronunciation doesn't even translate over exactly when you try to. I worked for a japanese company and the spelling and pronunciation for the country varied from Nippon to Nihon with no clear consensus on which should be the correct translation.
It is no different than people taking on local names instead of relying on people trying to pronounce your name when the local language doesn't even contain the sounds that make up that name.
JoshDM · 1 points · Posted at 02:05:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think it's like how Istanbul is Constantinople, but that's nobody's business but the Turks.
I'd like to point out that while many Japanese pronounce is nippon, much more pronounced it Nihon.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 03:55:43 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It can be both Nihon and Nippon, actually. There are some minor conventions for which to use, but both are valid in all cases, it's just a case of what sounds right to a native. For example, the language is "nihongo" and almost never "nippongo". I've also heard the less-preferred pronunciation used in music a couple times to match the beat (nihon is 3 beats, while nippon is 4).
Well cuz then all our racism about Japanese people being into weird porn would just be filled with "nips" jokes, and do you really want to have to deal with that?
Honestly, this is just shines light on other reasons other countries see US as arrogant. Just making up random words to call things, ie Germans call their country Deutchland yet we came up with Germany. You know because reasons
We used to. For some reason it changed like 80 years ago or more. It's marked as Nippon in an old atlas I have, and racists call them "Nippers" yet for a reason.
Another one like this is "Moscow." The city's actual name is "Москва" (Moskva). It's not like saying "Moscow is any easier than saying "Moskva." Even "Russia" is kind of weird. "Rossiya" would be closer than "Russia."
isamu89 · 1 points · Posted at 06:09:53 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because the Japanese language has changed a bunch in hundreds of years, and the Portuguese and the Dutch had their own imperfect representations of other languages' names for the country, which in turn were imperfectly adapted to English.
The typical American can do whatever they're taught to do. They managed to work their tongue around Schwarzenegger when he garnered the respect for people to bother. Most people pronounce what they can be bothered to. Americans aren't morons they're just chauvinists like everyone else, except they're the paramount nation so are paramount chauvinists.
Fresh4 · 1 points · Posted at 22:58:15 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's a good point, though in my defense it's not a particularly easy name for most of us to pronounce, as well as plenty of jokes calling him "shorts nigger" the same way I've heard many jokes of "Deutschland" as "douche land". I'm sure most people just call him Arnold when talking about him in context just for brevity and simplicity (I know I do anyways).
I'm not saying we're incapable, just that it's much easier to pronounce something that's already kinda native to our tongue in terms of grammar and pronunciation of words.
Fresh4 · 2 points · Posted at 22:45:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I mean tbh freud is fairly simple, but Deutschland is a bit more complicated spelling wise and would probably be pronounced "douche land". I mean we have plenty of words pronounced differently to the way they're spelled.
You say no one cares, but here you are making an issue out of it.
I have family in England that live in "Bath". They pronounce it "Bahth". It sounds weird and wrong to me if I call the town "Bath" with the American pronunciation. But I'm sure whenever I use the regular pronunciation, some prick thinks I'm being pretentious.
I'm not entirely sure, but I've had the same complaint when pronouncing croissant or pain chocolat the French way.
Or saying Uruguay the Spanish way, even though it's the same in Swedish and that's how I've said it my entire life (i was speaking English at the time).
ETA that actually I think I know. People around you get the feeling that you are subtly trying to "correct" their pronunciation, and get annoyed
Yeah. In Japanese my name would be 'ReBikutoiru', because they can't pronounce 'L' or 'V'.
Also, squirrel in germany would be skvirl
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 22:59:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
We were planning our Euro trip 10 years back, one on the net, the other deep in a Lonely Planet: "Seems we should go to Florence" "yeah, and this one says we HAVE to go to Firenze, only I can't find it on the map"
They would work though. People just need to learn the right name. Like why do we call them Germany, thats not anything close to what they call themselves.
Well, a lot of names can't really be pronounced in English, because those languages use different sounds. Hungary is "Magyarország", and the "gy" sound is extremely difficult to pronounce for English people, since that sound doesn't exist in any English words.
I mean, not all of them work. Some of course would, but theyre still called a lot of different thing in various languages. But there are a lot of linguistic rules etc that can make things difficult.
I understand something like Mexico. We spell it the same way, but english speakers see an X and say "ecks" instead of pronouncing Mexico the way they do in Mexico.
But english speakers are perfectly capable of pronouncing España... hell why not even just Espana, without the ñ? It's closer than "spane."
Kered13 · 2 points · Posted at 04:04:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well it was "Hispania" before it was "España". Apparently this became "Spania" in Late Latin, from which we get modern English "Spain".
"Work". Does it matter? What English speaker really cares or knows 'Germany'? Why not just call it by what they call themselves, duetchland or whatever
Its not that simple. English isnt the only language with different names for other countries and its cities - its the case for a whole lot of languages. And many of those have vastly different linguistic rules etc that can make it difficult. A lot of Germans cant properly pronounce the word "squirrel" because they dont know how to make the right sounds. In the same vein, a lot of Indian people speak perfect English in the grammatical sense, but they usually have the stereotypical 'Indian-English accent'.
Its a lot more complicated than "Deutschland", which is easy to say in English.
xTRS · 1 points · Posted at 01:31:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I really think is this age of global economy, we should strive to call countries by their proper names or the closest approximation we can make in our language. It seems weird to tell Deutschland, "nah that name doesn't work for us. We're just gonna call you something else." Even if we butcher the names at first because they are unfamiliar, I think it's the thought that counts. Another commenter pointed out that we have made the switch from Peking to Beijing. Just keep that trend going.
Ngulwun is the first human-neanderthal in Australia putting him at 40,000BC (introduction of ng phonetic by modern humans). Ulwun would be alvin if his neanderthal ancestors had stayed in europe...like bulya (ilya), bulla (ella), tulu (tula), wulgaru (olga).
Joshua is eastern asian in origin. Shu-wa. Nu-wa is considered creator goddess of the ng humans amongst chinese legends. They ditch the tadpole symbol infavour of nu-wa's intestines on their banner forming first chinese culture.
Heck, it used to be pretty common to translate people's names as well, e.g. regnal names i.e. kings and such*, as well as when people immigrated to the US and so forth. Even today people traveling abroad might use a local variant.
In Finland is used to be common practice to "localize" the names of royals in other countries. Swedish kings named Gustav were Kustaa, Russian Tsars named Pyotr are Peter in English and Pietari in Finnish, all 3 names being the language in question's variant for St. Peter's name. Nowadays (past 20+ years?) the language institute has recommended against doing it anymore.
Older people in my country, and sometimes the media, still do sometimes use our variations of the names when talking about other European regents - particularly ones that have relatively strong ties to our own royal family etc.
They were still common here in at least e.g. kids' rhymes in the 90s, no idea if those have survived. They were still used at least occasionally in the 90s in formal (history books, journalism) contexts too. Most often seen with Swedish, Russian and British regnal names, since those were among the easier ones to translate, it's practically always just the saint's name. They're also the ones most historically relevant or otherwise discussed.
IMO we shouldn't. Countries should just name themselves. Forget the stupid reasons we had for the wrong names we invented; they already have their own name.
I believe its something to do with Kansas being English spelling (and consequently pronunciation), while Arkansas was French. Something along those lines.
Well, my language tends to use the native spellings for most cities (not necessarily countries), but we definitely butcher the pronunciation. I wouldnt be surprised if 'Chicago' was written/pronounced differently in some random languages to make it work for them. I dont know of any, though.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 04:04:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sports broadcasters have a tough time, though. So many weird names. I watch motorsports, where people literally come from all over the world. Some announcers are terrible, while others have taken their time to research it - Im always impressed by those who manage to pronounce all these different names in quick succession when theres a lot going on!
Depending on the situation, we may not. For example, while we translate "München" as "Munich" (the city in Germany), the Old Testament often leaves locality names untranslated, and only transliterated. See Ai ("עָי," a city (pronounced "eye" but meaning "heap of ruins") in Caanan or "כְּנָעַן" -- "Cana-an"/"the lowlands" or "the subjugated"). "The Negeb" in the OT works the same way, "הַנֶּגֶב" ("The Negev") literally means "The South" in Hebrew, yet it's usually transliterated in the scripture rather than translated.
Zarlon · 1 points · Posted at 22:33:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Except for Hugh Mungus. That works everywhere
Peany · 0 points · Posted at 23:06:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Istanbul was Constantinople. Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople. Been a long time gone, Constantinople. Now it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night.
c0mad0r · 7 points · Posted at 23:25:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The reason why we say "San Diegan" instead of "San Diego-an" is because it was the nickname given to the first "Coaster Train" that traveled from San Diego to Los Angeles back in the 1930's.
Sort of stuck as a nickname for residents around WWII and has stayed ever since (Source: San Diego Magazine, March 2006).
I had never previously heard of this, until I was in that restaurant having a salad a week ago. Now, I'm seeing it in the comment section for an article about Jesus. So weird...
c0mad0r · 2 points · Posted at 05:03:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I was in that restaurant having a salad a week ago.
Been going there about once a year for the past 34 years with family and/or friends. Always good food!
From El Cajon, can confirm "Meth Valley" is the English translation.
c0mad0r · 1 points · Posted at 02:35:47 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
I used to live off of Leslie Rd and Chase Ave (Villa Verde Apts) in the 80s, went to Chase Avenue Elementary and remember at least 3 apartment fires due to exploding bathroom tubs.
What are we going on, 15 years of it being the Meth Capital of California?
Also, El Kah-john was always my favorite tourist pronunciation.
Caesar Salad came from Tijuana Mexico from a Restaurant owner who's first name, not last name is Caeser.
He was an Italian immigrant that had restaurants in San Diego and Tijuana and was created in 1927 in Tijuana. It was trademarked in the United States first in 1950.
Mhm, and typically because those titles came from his name translated through that particular language to come up with unique pronunciations that are internally consistent but not perfect with the original
because those titles came from his name translated
Sort of, but there was a fairly significant step in-between. Caesar was the cognomen (third name) of Gaius Julius Caesar; but it was adapted by later Roman rulers as a title, by means of the previous emperor adopting his successor and giving him the name.
By the time other countries started adopting (and therefore translating) "Caesar" it had become more title than name. Which means they weren't just modeling the name after Gaius Julius Caesar, but after the Roman Emperor as a position.
It was "Iulius", which was originally pronounced "ee-yulius". Over time the pronunciation became "yulius", then "julius". Similarly, "Iupiter" was pronounced "ee-yupiter", then "yupiter", then "jupiter".
shlam16 · 1 points · Posted at 03:17:11 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
pro-nown-see-at-you-in
larvyde · 1 points · Posted at 04:21:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Rhymes with turtle
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 01:32:19 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 07:19:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's not the K/C/G/Q thing that gets me, it's that they all can have a secret w behind them ready to jump out and fuck you up just when you think you're finally getting somewhere.
Same "invisible w" thing happens in Celtic and Semitic languages, so I can't really bag on the Romance languages, it's just really hard to get your head around when it's not always written (e.g., most pre-renaissance texts).
I'm pretty sure C and G were already differentiated in Caesar's time. However, the initials for Gaius and Gnaeus were kept "C" and "Cn", respectively, for historical reasons.
Classical Latin is simply better, IMO. Closer to the original alphabet, so there's not many odd pronunciation quirks. Just the letters you need, and also Q for some reason.
Rakonas · 5 points · Posted at 23:14:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well maybe profligates like you don't, but the rest of us pronounce his name correctly.
Often because it's a pain to figure out, and sometimes the names exist in a language with a different sound set than English, which makes it pretty much impossible to pronounce "accurately'.
Most of the people who would pronounce Latin names properly take latin and learn the pronunciation of "Classical Latin" (v's that sound like w's, always hard c's) and then pronounce the name
I would really thnk only Jewish people would pronounce Jesus correctly because they took hebrew
Ancient Latin pronunciation was very unimpressive.
When Caesar dominated Pontus and said, "Veni, Vidi, Vici" ("I came, I saw, I conquered"), he would have pronounced it, "Weeny, Weedy, Weeky"
It's just so stupid sounding
Edit: I'm only saying saying that ancient Latin, such as what Caesar would have spoke, sounded very different than what modern Latin, or even Italian would lead you to think.
To them it was the height of wit and literacy, but languages change especially when moving between them, hence why we don't pronounce Jesus like its original
Yea, the only thing worse than having a piece of art commissioned with you posing with Jesus is to hire a shitty artist to paint it then proudly presenting the piece in your house.
legno · 1 points · Posted at 23:00:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Worse yet if you have to get Nick Cage to stand in for Jesus.
That's actually a common misconception. J-Dog was not what his brociples called him, but what Jesus kept trying to force as his nickname. The only mention of this is in Mark where he states, "Dude I'm not calling you J-Dog." Mark 4:20
Could say same thing for all names. Why is Paolo Paul in some countries, why is Johann John etc why didn't we all just use the original names from Hebrew or Greek rather than different countries making their own variations to it?
More to the point why do we call Deutschland Germany?
Yeah that's why I wrote it haha, to demonstrate that the actual name of John in Dutch is longer than the short for he used. Think it's closer to the original as well?
I think it's cool that you can tell where someone/their family is from just from their name, due to differing naming conventions and translations. If I say that I have a friend named Jean Montepiere, you can pretty well guess he's French. Similarly, if you have a friend named Umiko Toyama, I can pretty much guess that it's a Japanese girl (since -ko at the end of a first name in Japanese is usually used for girls). Languages are fun.
But if someone is named Mika, they're either a guy from Finland or a Japanese woman (and I think I recently spotted e.g. an Indian woman named that or something).
Also, Finnish and Estonian have a few fun cases of names that are opposite gender in the countries, despite them being neighbouring countries and the language split being relatively recent. E.g. Kai and Janne are spelled exactly the same, both men's names in Finland, women's names in Estonia.
The Scandinavian or Germanic one would probably be spelled Micha, if I'm not mistaken.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 22:30:03 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Except we use John and Juan separately. My brother in laws name is John from birth (in Colombia) and he gets offended when people call him Juan because that isn't his name.
[deleted] · -2 points · Posted at 22:44:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Tell him it's not our fault his parents were special snowflakes who wanted a "bougie" name for their son because English names are like, so totally fetch.
[deleted] · 4 points · Posted at 23:01:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
..... his whole family knows english and a lot of them live in England and some in America. How about people stop being assholes and have basic respect for each other? Call people by what they want to be called, its a basic level of respect.
JoA_MoN · 1 points · Posted at 20:29:36 on January 2, 2017 · (Permalink)
I though it was Giovanni in Italian?
FX114 · 10 points · Posted at 22:10:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So essentially most of the different names developed from the various tribes of the area. There were many more, some of them accounting for the names of federal states or regions (Sachsen, Thüringen, Franken). Why a certain language uses exactly this or that term is each a wholly separate historical story. In general, it may be assumed that at the time and the place where that language originated from the people had to do with a specific one of the tribes (thus Germania in Italian, Allemagne in French) and it then spread from there.
Germany was not a defined state till 1871. Before that the term in any language was more loosely used for the area, the ethnic group speaking the same language or different alliances over time. All the existing and often changing small(er) nations had other names (Prussia etc.). In 1871 the term 'Deutschland' then became identical with an actual nation.
Doesn't explain why the Germans call it Deutschland though. Especially with the Dutch not being from there (although this is probably just a case of mistaken identity by the english)
FX114 · 10 points · Posted at 22:41:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes it does.
The German term "Deutschland" is derived from Old High German duit, "people, race, nation," from Proto-Germanic *theudo "popular, national" from
Proto-Indo-European base *teuta- "people".
The correct inflection is 'deutsch' as the adjective for something German, as well as the language and 'Deutsche/r' as the noun for a person.
For English in particular, there is a word stemming from duit: Dutch. It just has been used for something else from the 16./17. century on:
During the Renaissance in the 16th century, differentiation began to be made by opposing duytsch (modern Duits) "German" and nederduytsch "Low German" with dietsch or nederlandsch "Dutch", a distinction that is echoed in English later the same century with the terms High Dutch "German" and Low Dutch "Dutch". However, due to Dutch commercial and colonial rivalry in the 16th and 17th centuries, the English term came to refer exclusively to the Dutch.
Didn't want to look for it in the article haha thank you. I knew about the Dutch-Deutsch fuckup (am Dutch) just never knew where it actually came from, thanks! Nice to know that my people are called the Race, doesn't sound weird at all, especially since it came from the Germans haha. Guess they've always been fascistnated by race.
I'm not sure you understood that entirely right. The Dutch are called Dutch in English because until about very late medieval times (1648) they were Deutsch in language, culture and political affiliation. Not surprisingly about that time the English started to use Dutch only for the Netherlands and German for the HRE. Also, Dutch does not mean "race" but "the common people" with the connotation "not Latin speaker."
The Dutch could communicate perfectly fine with neighbouring German dialects, only later with the fairly different Neuhochdeutsch replacing dialects and the independent development of the Dutch language differences grew.
Well it says right there that duit came from Race so that's where i got that from, it was kind of a joke. But you're telling me that before 1648 there was no independant Dutch language? This seems so weird to me, if my memory serves me right there already was in independent dutch republic by then who spoke something very different from old german. I don't know i thought i got it but now I'm confused haha.
Edit: hm wait so german and dutch did exist together at that time, however the english didn't see it as 2 different languages? Am i getting warmer? This still seems kinda odd to me though since i mean we were an independent country around 1580 i believe, how could the english not have noticed
Languages were much more fluid in medieval times and before, not following national borders (if any such existed) so much. It was only after languages started to be standardized, often as late as the 19th century in Europe (20th for e.g. Indonesian vs. Malay) but starting around the 16th century, that the differences were clearly delineated.
Well, changes in language use usually don't happen all at once. In 1581 de Republiek der Zeven Verenigde Nederlanden declared its independence but they had to fight until 1648 for it to be formally accepted. Somewhere in between there English people probably increasingly saw the need to differenciate between "Dutch" and "the other Dutch", so in that period we probably find documents that mix terms and meaning.
As for the relationship between the Dutch and German language, during the 16th century (and before) Maas-Rijnlands was the written language of the "German" area neighbouring the Netherlands and that could be perfectly understood by Dutch people. It began to be replaced by Hochdeutsch but it took until the 18th century for Maas-Rijnlands to be entirely replaced. The spoken dialects on either side of the border are still similar enough to communicate today. So ultimately the question if Dutch was a separate language by 1648 is hard to answer. A good answer is probably that a unified German language only began to emerge in the second half of the 16th century too and a Bavarian of that time would have had the same difficulty understanding Dutch people or someone from Hamburg or Düsseldorf.
All languages do this though. King Louis for example is actually not translated to English, so is Charlemagne, they are called Lodewijk and Karel respectively though where I'm from so the Dutchification is even worse haha.
Haha i like the joke but Holland is actually just part of the Netherlands. It's calling America Washington for example. Or Dakota since both North and South holland are provinces of the Netherlands. Most people use Holland though for shortness and recognisability i guess. I'd prefer to be called Netherlandish. Well i actually don't because it sounds stupid but it would be the most correct.
Sometimes the original name or word may be hard to pronounce by locals from a different country or it may not follow the same local language spelling rules.
An example of this would be Chinese conversion of Japanese names. Typical Chinese names are one or two syllables while many Japanese can reach three syllables. Therefore Yamada Tarō could become Shāntián Tàiláng.
Why do we call him Christopher Columbus? His name is Cristoforo Colombo. It's not like that's hard to pronounce for english speakers.
In high school a kid moved to my school with the name Alejandro. Everybody called him Alejandro because that's his name, obviously. We didn't just decide to call him Alexander instead. Because that's not his name.
Pretty funny, King Louis is called Ludwig in German. Not too far off right? Well he's called Lodewijk in Dutch, which is not even close to Louis. It is however close to Ludwig. It seems like the Dutch translated the German name, which was in turn translated from the French name. I wonder if there are more names translated over and over again until it's not even close anymore (except jesus)
For names, it is a revert back to how you pronouce the letters. Shawn is the keltic version of John.
Even my name gets butchered. 3 letters, and how you say them, changes my name. I can tell people my name, but when they see it they don't always make the connection. (Elisha btw)
Then it moves on from there, they hear a name and begin to write it in the fonts they use.
Josh said he doesn't really care. Just quit being dicks to each other. And maybe quit eating shellfish. Cthulhu really resents people who eat shellfish.
[deleted] · 4 points · Posted at 22:15:09 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
This article sites many accounts of Jesus with varying degrees of certainty, but it's a pretty good collection of resources. Beyond this, you are on your own. I am no biblical scholar, I just think the 'love your enemies, treat others as you would treat yourself, visit jails, support widows and care for the orphans' was a universally positive message, regardless of if he actually existed. His message to humanity is hard to argue against.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:15:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
But is there any historical proof? Curious since I remember a documentary long ago that said there was no mention on records. Wondering if that changed.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 23:04:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Names would get translated to latin, because in latin you have to conjugate names, and so just having the name "bob" for example cannot be conjugated. So it would probably be changed to bobus so you can conjugate it
or because the structure of the language requires it.
This is really an important point. We're talking about names that appear in books specifically. To pronounce a name the same way among all languages would require that their written language be capable of conveying the pronunciation.
Some languages literally cannot describe some sounds using their alphabet. I know Burmese, and when I visited Myanmar, I was interested to see how a native wrote my name. I am able to read the language, however, and I could see he simply did his best phonetically, but they lack some sounds, so there were liberties taken. For instance, Smith would end up being pronounced Smi' if you simply read it off of the page.
Sdffcnt · 0 points · Posted at 00:01:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Just say what you mean. People are lazy assholes. Everyone I've met from abroad has been pleasantly surprised when I took the time/effort to learn their real name over their Americanized one. Seriously. How hard is it to pronounce Byong-Doek or Chi-hung or Mahmoud when they tell you?
If their name contains sounds not present in your native language, it can be quite difficult. Many native English speakers have difficulty with the rolled r, such as in Spanish, because that sound is not present in English. Another example would be clicks which are not present in most major languages of the world, most people will struggle to pronounce them correctly and it will take some time to learn to do it properly.
Sdffcnt · 1 points · Posted at 07:37:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
most people will struggle to pronounce them correctly and it will take some time to learn to do it properly.
Then you struggle and take time. It's basic human respect.
Because in order to say it correctly requires a more intimate knowledge of the Hebrew language, as in how to enunciate the letters of his name precisely. It's much easier to just transcribe it in a form that is much easier to read/ hear in your native tongue
Meh, yes and no. If we're talking about the name in its original form (i.e. Hebrew, or actually Aramaic, lettering)? That would be incomprehensible to most of us who use the English / Latin alphabet. Most English speakers don't know Shin (ש) from Shinola. So something like " ישוע " wouldn't even be pronounceable to someone who doesn't already know the language.
On the other hand, we don't have to translate the name, when we can merely transliterate the name. i.e. converting the Hebrew letters to their closest english equivalents, which in this case comes out something like "Yeshua."
The real answer here is that English speaking people did not discover Christianity. It spread to Greek and Latin, which our culture was then influenced by -- so we get the orignal names filtered through these other languages before it gets to our own. But none of that is really necessary.
The major problem with pronouncing ancient Hebrew names, Jesus included, is they didn't have vowels in their written alphabet, and overtime the actual pronunciation of ancient Hebrew (generally called Biblical Hebrew ) has been lost.
TL;DR English translations may be close, we can't know for sure, but, the pronunciations were kind of standardized years ago in English so they're not questioned often.
Jews in the ancient world often had two names, one Jewish and one Hellenistic.
When Paul spoke to his Gentile audience, they called him Paul. When he was with his Jewish audience, he was called Saul.
Christianity spread in Greek outside of Palestine and therefore used the name Joshua found in the Greek Old Testament instead of the Hebrew one.
That mispronunciation comes from the fact that its phoenetic translation uses a different system with (especially) counterintuitive rules compared to normal English. If it was approximated using traditional letter sounds, Americans would get it much closer. But for someone seeing the name and not knowing what it sounded like (and not knowing the obscure Viet-Roman spelling conventions) they would have no way of knowing.
This case doesn't represent most of history though. Most people, when they encounter new cultures and languages, would first hear people saying it and then pass along the written version as best they could.
The thing that throws people about the name Nguyen is that it's pronounced exactly as it's spelled.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:44:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not quite a parallel though, that's one that's been transcribed by a fucking imbecile. Always go with phoenetics when changing alphabets. Saves an awful lot of confusion. We're using the same alphabet as the Romans (more or less), who were big record keepers at the time and in the region.
xxpor · 5 points · Posted at 23:33:35 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You realize Vietnamese is written with the latin alphabet, right?
The actual spelling is Nguyễn, but that wouldn't make a difference to anyone who only reads English.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 14:11:57 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Only recently (400 years or so). It had its own characters, derived from Chinese, previous to that.
Same reason we call it Spain and not España or Japan and not 日本 or at least Nippon or Nihon.
Languages often use different writing systems, and even when they are the same they often pronounce letters differently. An "e" in Spanish is not the same as an "e" in English and so on. And then we dig in deeper and have sounds in one language that simply can't be easily pronounced by speakers in another. Such as an English speaker trying to properly pronounce Taoism (also called Daoism). The sound is somewhere between and off to the side of an English "T" and a "D" and most English speakers can't actually hit it without really trying and often time spent studying. Similarly I had a professor in college who went by an Americanized first name in class because even third year Chinese students had trouble pronouncing the sort of "X" like sound at the start of his name.
Then we also go back and look at the history of these words, and the conversation probably went like this:
Brit: "where are you from?"
Spaniard: "España"
Brit: "Did you say Spain? I heard Spain" To his friends "That sounded like Spain, right? Alright, that's it, we got it. Done"
And it happens and back and forth as well. In Spanish USA is known as "Estados Unidos de América", which kind of makes sense because they are translating the words United and States and then putting everything in their usual order, and yet the word "America" is going to pronounced differently than we do. (something more like Ah- MAY - re - ka, although the r will be slightly different as well. Someone familiar with writing phonetics could be more accurate).
TL;DR: It's complicated, some is historic, some is spelling, some is pronunciation.
REVDR · 2 points · Posted at 22:39:24 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
There isn't one exact pronunciation that would work in all cases. For example, in Greek, the nouns have various (but similar) forms depending on the function it is performing in a sentence. Thus, "Jesus" would have slightly different form and pronunciation based on whether or not the word "Jesus" was a subject, possessive noun, indirect, or direct object in a given sentence.
Because it often contains sounds English doesn't. For example, the sound usually spelled as 'X' in Chinese transliterations (as in current Chinese President Xi Jinping's name) is a sound English doesn't have: it's sort of intermediate between a ch, a k, and a j.
Same reason why we can't agree that Germany is Deutchland or whether or not Japan is Nihon or at least Zapan. Or why Iberian dogs pronounce J with an H sound and those eastern barbarians mix W's pronunciation with V's.
From personal experience, the reason for this is so that my family has something to argue about during Christmas dinner.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:44:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Languages don't share the same syllables. Hebrew for example doesn't even have "j" or "juh" so Joshua would be Yoshua, and then yeshua.. most of the name didn't even translate into Greek that's why Jesus is only 5 letters
You can't use "Yeshua" as a name in Greek. Male names can't end in "a" and there is no "sh" sound in the language. So the adapted it to fit the grammar and phonology of their language, "Yesous." Again, that doesn't fit Latin grammar, so they changed it a bit more into "Iesus." Over time they began to orthographically differentiate between the two uses of "I" and began writing it as J when used as a consonant. When Latin Bibles were translated to English, there was no need to change anything for grammatical purposes, but over time the pronunciation changed.
Probably a huge amount of common names today are translated from Hebrew, Greek or some other old language.
Also, many Hebrew names are simply standard nouns, like "wolf" (Ze'ev), "oak" (Alon), "cypress" (Oren), "bear" (Dov), "light" (Or), "gold" (Paz), "wave" ("Gal") etc cetera. There's also a ton of names that are related to gift-giving, implying the child was a gift from God: Natan, Yehonatan, Shai, Yshay, Doron, Matan, probably a few others.
When your name is literally a noun, it makes sense to translate it. Also maybe you've gone off to another country and people consistently mispronounce your name until you say "oh fuck it". That's probably how Natan became Nathan, for example. Hell, there are some sounds in Hebrew that simply don't exist in other languages; the Hebrew name Haim/Chaim is pronounced Jaim (J as in the Spanish name "Jose"), but you can't even write it properly in English.
There's also a consideration relating to how Hebrew is written. Specifically many vowels are often omitted, so some words share their spelling. For example, the names "Mor" and "Moore" are written the same way in Hebrew.
HKei · 1 points · Posted at 22:50:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because you couldn't pronounce the name, even if through some miracle we were able to reproduce the original pronounciation with 2000 years of tonal shifts and lost language in between.
This is the thing that gets me about the folks that consider the Bible the "infallible word of god". I mean, they couldn't even get the main character's name right. You know, the guy the whole thing is building up to and is supposedly the savior of mankind? It'd be like Buddhists finding out his name wasn't Buddha, but Bandu.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:02:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
A lot of people will call him Yesshua out of respect.
A cool think noticed about it is it literally sounds like "yes you are" like the divine lord is affirming your existence just by saying his name
moohah · 1 points · Posted at 23:03:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Here's the condensed version. First, the original comment isn't quite rightly. Jesus and Joshua weren't equivalent. More like Jeshua and Joshua, with Jeshua (more like Yeshua) a sort of nickname / shortening.
Second, there's no sh sound in Greek, so there was no way to spell it in Greek with the sh sound, so it got written as s instead.
Third, Greek uses declension, which means nouns (usually the ending of nouns) change depending on where they're used in a sentence. English uses conjugation, which is similar but on verbs (e.g I eat, he eats). Think of Return of the Jedi. When C3P0 introduces himself in huttese, it's see three pea oah. So, writing in geek, the name has to end in an s to be grammatically correct.
lcg3092 · 1 points · Posted at 23:05:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because not all languages have the same phonetics, so translations happen naturally... Things just morphed naturally, and people got used to them, it wasn't like a bunch of people got together and said "ok, lets translate this shit"
For greek and latin, I imagine grammatic since you might want to properly accord the name and alphabet since you translate the writen form (the form most people would hear about it).
And for english, well latin J is I but if you don't know that you'll read it the way you know.
kenshen · 1 points · Posted at 23:14:01 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because it's easier to pronounce and still maintains the exact meaning if you trace all the Hebrew Greek Latin and English translations of his name while not all break down exactly the same ultimately they trace back to his biblical name I AM and Jehovah or in English Joshua.
I have friends called translations of their legal name. Sean is John, Seamus is legally named James, etc.
Names are weird and they way they translate leads to weird shortenings like Dick is short for Richard even though they aren't similar but Richard > Ricardo > Rick > Dick.
Not saying they should be translated just that it's definitely not limited to a few cases. We see it in every day life.
jwarnyc · 1 points · Posted at 23:16:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Maybe characters don't exist in that language for certain phonetics. They might have intended the characters they used to be pronounced slightly differently. These nuances might have gotten more pronounced during multiple translations, especially when they were read and not heard, more so by people with different accents w.r.t the original writers, within the same language.
husky54 · 1 points · Posted at 23:18:25 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Every direct response to you is incorrect, so--here you go:
Hebrew (as with most Semitic languages) has phonetic values not available in Greek and Latin. The Semitic spelling of Jesus actually has two such sounds: š and 'ayin. Frequently, these letters/sounds are either lost or replaced with their closest phonetic approximation (e.g., š becomes sigma when transliterated into Greek but remains š in Coptic).
The h is lost in a somewhat random distribution because h likes to drop out between vowels in Semitic.
Greeks and Romans didn't know what to do with the "sh" sound, as they didn't have it in their languages at the time. "S" worked well enough. Also, you needed the proper case endings so you could decline the name, like the -ous in "Iesous" and -us in "Iesus".
You have to remember that the original stories of Jesus were spread by word of mouth. When people thought to write down what they remembered, it was written in their own language.
When it was translated into different language, you had different interpretations of what certain words meant.
To give a seasonal example: "Saint Nicholas", not "Sain-Nich-los" (say it in an exaggerated American accent, you'll figure it out).
Holfax · 1 points · Posted at 23:28:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Names change in translation because 1) not every language can "spell" words from other languages 100% accurately (Y becomes I, SH becomes S), 2) spelling conventions change (I becomes J), and 3) some languages have different rules/conventions for names (U becomes US). When the Bible was translated to English, they could have gone back to "Yeshu" or "Yeshua", but instead they kept the spelling from the Latin translation that they translated from.
Runsta · 1 points · Posted at 23:33:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because in Koine Greek, the closest to an Y would be the Iota, which makes Jesus in Greek I-e-sus. When Romanized, the I becomes a J, which makes it into Jesus. Not to mention, the accessibility into Hebrew texts(notably the old testament) comes from the Septuagint, as well as the new testament being written almost entirely in Greek.
While Jesus had a Hebrew name, he also spoke Aramaic, a completely different language to throw into the mix.
I'm only a beginner in Greek and Hebrew while studying in a seminary.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:44:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Why don't we just call him by whatever people who knew him called him?
I always thought that was strange. Someone going to talk to Jesus and hed be like "whos Jesus...thats not me"
Also, a lot of pronunciation of ancient Hebrew is inferred because vowels are dropped in ancient manuscripts. For example YHWH is the name of God in Hebrew, and people literally don't know what vowels belong between those consonants because speaking the name of God aloud was taboo(scholars would just say 'the Lord' when reciting, which is why in English God tells Moses 'My name is the Lord') so pronunciation was lost to time.
Why don't we just call him by whatever people who knew him called him?
Well, assuming Jesus was a real person living in first century Judaea, specifically in Galilee, then he and all the people that knew him would have been Aramaic speakers, not Hebrew. The Aramaic name for Jesus sounds like "Eesa".
Lewon_S · 1 points · Posted at 23:54:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because different languages have different sounds and ruled so a word in one may not be possible in another languages. Plus I think in translating Jesus' name they confused what some of the letters meant in other scripts so it came out wrong.
Because most people can't read or speak Aramaic which was the language Jesus spoke normally. Many of the books of the Bible were written in Hebrew, some in Greek and the rest in Aramaic, some times a combination.
Zoklett · 1 points · Posted at 00:17:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Part of it is that Hebrew is in a different alphabet, so is Aramaic and so is Greek which are some of the more original languages the bible was written in and the phonetics just didn't always match up. Eventually Latin became the deaf to language and bibles were then translated from Greek to Latin and Italian which are so different they basically had to rewrite the whole story for it to make any sense. They had to change names because they were too difficult to spell or pronounce and over time things got so convoluted now people think Mary was just a really common name and not the word for "woman", because so much got lost in translation.
Keep in mind that the New Testament was originally written in Greek or at least most of it. So saying the name Jesus was translated from Hebrew into Greek then into English is not entirely accurate. It was the Bible writers themselves who used the Greek form of his name Jesus instead of the Hebrew form when they wrote their books of the Bible. So then when we go and translate the New Testament into English we put in the name Jesus because it matches the Greek more closely. When you translate the Old Testament which was mostly written in Hebrew you end up using Joshua.
In Korean, Jesus is pronounced "Yeh-su" or "Yeh-su-nim". "nim" is added to give the name a "title" or authority of sorts.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:28:57 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
nobody thought they were translating. Jesus is actually a rather unique phenomenon in English. Most of the world calls him yeshu or Ieshu depending on your accent.
Oscee · 1 points · Posted at 00:35:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, there is more recent example: why is "Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin" "Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin" in English? It is certainly not how those 3 words are pronounced originally but it is the English version nevertheless. This is how close you can get in English I guess.
My mother tongue is phonetic with a quite large alphabet so it is fairly easy to transliterate most foreign words and we still have our own versions of some names and this is true for majority of biblical names, ancient historical figures' names and most cities and countries. But this makes transliteration of contemporary Russian, German, Nordic etc. words and names fairly straightforward and complete which make you cringe a little bit all the times you hear English speakers pronounce them.
WazWaz · 1 points · Posted at 00:37:33 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, for a start, Hebrew died as a spoken language. Modern Hebrew was resurrected but there is no unbroken chain of speakers. Not that an unbroken chain would help - just look at how differently English is spoken over time.
This is a guess: the early Catholic Church wanted to distinguish itself from Jewish sects and translated his name to Jesus further separating Christianity from Judaism .
Difficult to call a fictional character by their fictional name.
DJ780 · 1 points · Posted at 00:54:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
As far as I know, the original name of Jesus Christ was EESHO in the Aramaic or, language of the Assyrians.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:55:17 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Once a name sticks, it tends to be difficult to get rid of. Same with people using Jehovah more then Yahweh.
I always find it funny when people criticize Jehovah's Witnesses for using Jehovah when they continue to use Jesus. I believe witness literature admits both names are not perfect translations but it is what people recognize and I guess god forgives us for not be smart enough to remember their real names.
I think a lot of it has to do with Joshua playing an important role in the Old Testament, having lived at the same time as Moses.
Also because the New Testament was written at the height of the Roman Empire, and so was likely translated into Greek (and later Latin) and finally into English.
The English language didn't exist at the time. Greek and Latin were the most widely spoken languages in the Mediterranean basin around the time of Jesus' life. In Greek and in Latin, it was customary to Hellenize (make greek) or Latinize foreign names so that they would be easier to write and pronounce. That's how Yeshua became Iesous and Iesus.
For example, in Latin, the name Marcus will take different endings depending on its function in a sentence. Marcus videt = Marcus sees ; Liber Marci = Marcus' book ; Video Marcum = I see Marcus ; Librum Marco do = I give a book to Marcus ; O, Marce = Oh, Marcus ( you're speaking to Marcus and calling him by name)
So, for a foreign name like Yeshua to be written in Latin, a Latin speaker would have to change it slightly so that it will conform to the standard way that Latin names are used and noun endings are changed.
I never studied Ancient Greek, but I know that it has a similar system of noun classifications and endings. (These are called declensions).
So, after the New Testament was written in Greek, translated into Latin, and spread throughout Europe to the different barbarian peoples, including the ancestors of modern English people, the only version of the name they ever knew or heard was Iesus/Jesus.
I have often wondered this. As a Catholic our current pope is called Francis in English speaking countries and Francisco in other countries. Just the way it is I guess.
Because different languages have different sounds. One link in that translation chain, Latin, doesn't have a "sh" sound so it was approximated by "s" much like how English approximates the Spanish "trilled r" sound with our r sound. Also, a lot of Latin words beginning with "I" followed by a vowel are transliterated to "J" for various complicated historical reasons, so "Iesu" became "Jesu" etc. In addition, different languages have different rules about which sounds can be next to each other, so this adds another layer of mess.
nowadays we have the luxury of being able to ask a person directly, "what do you like to be called". As an example look at all of the posts we have online today. "german's what do you think about americans" and all of the SJW stuff, this is all an awakening of a different kind of thinking. the average person can be heard very easily and communicate to millions of people at once. years ago most information was second hand. In some regions there were differences in language between towns notwithstanding whole countries or tribes. As time went on there was a great drive to create more standardization in languages. now there are even committees on linguistics for a particular language as well as even studies on what people actually want to be called!
This may seem like a strange example, but the Japanese word for an RV is "Arubui", which is a phonetic integration of English into Japanese.
Similarly, it wouldn't be too surprising for people to adapt the way in which a common name or word is said to their own native tongue, and additionally words will change as time progresses. A german word and an english word may have the same origin, but now sound vastly different. It's entirely plausible that these sorts of things could have occurred. Additionally, some may translate a word or name with specific intent, like "Shang Di" being the name for God in Chinese, or "YeHeHua" being their phonetic variant of "Jehovah", which is a mistranslation of "Yahweh", which is an evolved form of the original pronunciation for the phrase "He will be", which is lost.
Words are complicated.
bjb406 · 1 points · Posted at 02:19:19 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
because when translating between languages, the one language may have a sound that doesn't exist in the other. For example, Japanese has a sound that is similar to both "r" and "l" but identical to neither, and is translated as both interchangeably.
Also, in the case of dead languages, many of these sounds have long since been forgotten.
HK_1030 · 1 points · Posted at 03:10:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's not really a translation, it's a transliteration. It's interpreting the sound of the word through the sounds available in another language. So like, the name Ahmed, in Arabic, is pronounced with an H sound English doesn't have. So in English the closest people can get is Akhmed or Amad. That's the English transliteration of the Arabic name. Does that make sense?
Because when writing the Bible in different languages, the translators attempted to keep His name, but made it as close to His real name as possible. People in Europe and Britain wouldn't have grasped Yeshua, but could pronounce and grasp Jesus.
raphier · 1 points · Posted at 04:07:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
In the west it's difficult to symphatize with names like Yehoshua, that's why people don't say Yahwe, they say God and Jesus instead of Yehoshua, Hakadoch as holy spirit, the choosen one.
Because Americans/English speakers don't want to say Hebrew names the way they are. Ie. Samuel is pronounced something like "Schmuel." No one wants to say that. Hebrew has some bizarre pronunciations.
fromdev · 1 points · Posted at 06:34:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
+1 - Joshua or Jesus - both would easily be said or written in English as well. Why translate nouns. It is something TIL for me too.
pl233 · 184 points · Posted at 21:14:25 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wish this was higher in the comments. In any case, it's convenient that only one of them gets translated to Jesus in the Bible because it's less confusing that way.
No? Zero = Zero as in nothing. If you are referring to something like divided by zero, it is undefined, as in we do not know. Its almost a concept outside of math.
1/x while x-> infinity is infinitely close to zero, but its still not zero.
No way man, that's the old and busted way. New hotness is to wish to always have the right amount of the acceptable currency to buy anything you want at the moment. Magic wallet.
[deleted] · -1 points · Posted at 21:59:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Modern Hebrew also uses "Yeshu" to refer exclusively to Jesus, even though in Jesus' time it was simply the short version of "Yehushua" (which is "Joshua" in English), and is still a common Hebrew name.
valryuu · 126 points · Posted at 22:14:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
So what you're saying is, "Jesus" is less the equivalent of "Joshua," and more the equivalent of "Josh"? LOL
I took a biblical history class in high school and it was actually really cool. It gave context to a lot of what Jesus did at the time and showed why he gained such a radical following.
He also would have been called "Yeshua ben-Yusef" or something like that. Jesus son of Joseph.
m00fire · 1 points · Posted at 22:10:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I always thought it started with an 'I' like in that documentary 'Indiana Jones and the Last Cruusade'
pl233 · 2 points · Posted at 22:39:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
In Latin, yeah. In the anglicized Hebrew it's a Y, goes to I for Greek and Latin, then becomes a J in English. Not sure why we turned it into a J sound at all, maybe it should be pronounced closer to Yeezy.
Nulono · 1 points · Posted at 22:11:54 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Fun fact: in Arabic "Jesus" is represented as "c Ysā"
That first letter is c Ayn which is basically a guttural groaning sound. My professor says that to produce the sound you have to use the same muscles you use to vomit.
[deleted] · 44 points · Posted at 22:51:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's an unfortunate description. Ayn and Ghayn are harder than some sounds, but "guttural groaning" is pretty harsh -- especially considering English is full of ugly words...like "guttural" and "groaning" ;).
Ayn spoken by a native Arabic or Hebrew speaker sounds kinda like a cello. It's flowing, not strangled the way students will first say it.
frilink · 0 points · Posted at 01:27:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I was taught in my Arabic class that 'ayn is like singing one note lower than the lowest note you can sing
hx87 · 3 points · Posted at 22:55:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
If you live somewhere between Orange County and San Diego, you should be familiar with that name, since the US House representative there (Darrell Issa) has it. He is also the voice on Viper car alarms that says "Protected by Viper. Stand back" and "Please step away from the car".
I've heard Arabic spoken in the Gulf States, Saudi Arabia, and the southern peninsula...it is a hideous language. But then you go north the the Levant, Jordan, Iraq...and it is beautiful.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 02:11:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
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ram0h · 2 points · Posted at 03:44:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So welsh speak softly? Or just very differently from the original language. Because most commentators will say that Egyptian Arabic is most pleasant to the ear, because of all the letters that they change to softer sounds.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 04:16:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
ram0h · 1 points · Posted at 04:25:17 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
For real, its easier for me to try to talk French with Moroccans (I'm intermediate) than to speak Arabic with them. Same difficulty with people in the gulf. Syrian/Lebanese Arabic isn't too hard, as an Egyptian
Spanish comes to my mind as being the same way...then I remember regional dialects are a thing in English too. THEN I wonder how Chinese could have regional dialects, since tone is so important to spoken Chinese.
gavers · 2 points · Posted at 00:49:25 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I've never seen that c used to transliterate an ayin.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:20:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The real symbol is hard to type for most keyboards. So ʿayn, for convenience, becomes cayn.
gavers · 1 points · Posted at 09:55:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What symbol are you trying to use? when I transliterate an ayin (in Hebrew) I'll usually use an apostrophe. In Arabic I know they use numbers, which I find odd, but I've never heard of a small c.
NIPLZ · 1 points · Posted at 00:22:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
A glottal stop? It's also represented in linguistics by a symbol similar to a question mark I believe. In my language it's represented by the letter Q and its a sound made by your throat. Foreigners can never get the hang of it 😂
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:18:19 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, a glottal stop is different, and is represented by Hebrew Aleph or Arabic Alif and Hamza. It's also present in English in almost every word beginning with a vowel (which, fun fact, is why all words starting with a vowel alliterate with each other in Old English poetry.)
Ayn is a different beast altogether, the voiced pharyngeal fricative. It can actually be thought of as "the opposite of a glottal stop."
The arabic letter qāf is more of a glottal stop/occlusive sound, but more in the back of the throat. c Ayn is an open sound that starts deep in your chest.
In modern Hebrew, you can get by without pronouncing Ayn like it traditionally should. A lot of Hebrew speakers pronounce it like a regular syllable without causing any hindrance. I think that in Arabic it's more important to pronounce it right.
ram0h · 1 points · Posted at 03:46:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Without a doubt. It will be confused with other letters/words if not.
Bar, not ben. Jesus lived in Aramaic-speaking times. Hebrew was only used by the educated scholars and teachers.
e.g. Simon Barjonah (Son of Jonah), Barabbas (Son of the father), etc
[deleted] · 18 points · Posted at 22:22:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So Judah Ben Hur was not the son of Hur?
BrStFr · 14 points · Posted at 22:52:57 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, he was: Judah son of Hur.
Jews still have patronymic names like this in addition to their "English" names. There is also an addition at the end to indicate whether the person is a member of the tribe of Levi (a levite) or a descendant of Moses' brother Aaron a (kohein, or priest).
You are overestimating the value of literacy to these cultures. Hebrew was the language of the written law. The average Jew didn't need to know how to read the law to follow oral traditions and teachings.
Jesus, as someone who obviously spent most of his life discussing and challenging much of Jewish law, would certainly have known Hebrew. He studied in the temple as a youth.
It is also likely that Jesus knew Greek, as he was able to speak to many Gentiles and Roman officials with ease. Greek was the default language for most of the Mediterranean (the language of commerce and trade). Which is why most of the New Testament was written in Greek instead of Hebrew or Aramaic.
OK_Soda · 3 points · Posted at 00:14:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Barabbas (Son of the father)
What a shitty name. God, no wonder he got into crime.
"And what is the child's name?"
"Don't care."
"Well, who should we put as the father on the birth certificate, at least?"
"Don't know."
"I'll just put son of the father and you can fill it in later."
OIP · 2 points · Posted at 00:51:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
hello my name is sonny fatherson
OK_Soda · 2 points · Posted at 01:31:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
so what would have been the name people would call jesus? Yeshua Bar Yosef? i would love to know what he was actually referred as in his language, it's very interesting.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 03:25:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
He would mostly have been called Yeshua. He might also have been called Yeshua Bar-Yoseph or Yeshua Nazrat if he needed to be differentiated. His followers mostly called him Rabbi from what we can tell.
But he was a rabbi wasn't he? So he probably spoke both?
OK_Soda · 2 points · Posted at 00:23:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
He wasn't a Rabbi rabbi. The word just means "teacher" or "master", so his disciples called him by that title, but actual Rabbinical Judaism didn't exist yet, so he wasn't like an officially ordained Rabbi the way we would think of the word now. Jesus was probably able to speak Hebrew, but it was a sacred language and he didn't belong to the kind of upper class that would have used it for naming schemes.
Wait...so you're telling me that the Brad Pitt-in-Fight-Club with 6 pack abs dude I see everywhere isn't an accurate depiction of an iron age Palestinian? Yeah, okay dude. Suuuuure.
Jesus wasn't a Palestinian, as Palestine didn't exist. He was a Jew, and modern day Palestinians are genetic Jordanians, for the most part.
[deleted] · 4 points · Posted at 03:37:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Palestine existed. It was named for the Philistines, and in many languages (such as Arabic) this is still obvious. It was called this way since hundreds of years before Christ.
However, the people who lived there in Christ's time were not Philistines, nor were they modern Palestinians. Christ was also from the north of Judah, not the region called Palestine. So you're right on those notes.
Uh...no. He was religiously Jewish, but the region was referred to as Palestine by ancient Greeks and Romans way before he was supposedly born. He was born in Judea, which at the time was part of the southern region of Palestine. Wikipedia is your friend, with plenty of sources.
tootlez · 9 points · Posted at 01:49:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
this comment is as incorrect as it is condescending
This whole thread is about different languages' names for things, and you fail to realize that the word Palestine is simply the Roman name for the province of Judea, renamed so as to remove connection with the Jews after the revolts. Also, until modern times there was no concept of "religiously Jewish." Just like every other people, the Jews were an ethnic group who had their own religion.
Purity? It's common knowledge and your comment is not even relevant. You are not that smart, are you? Checked your istory if you're sorta JSW- you play Pokemon, for fucksake, lmao- that's even worse! Are you a brony as well?
Guess I'm not too smart, I don't even know what JSW is or why history shouldn't be spelled with an h. Good thing you're here to set me straight! Please, go on!
fimari · 1 points · Posted at 23:05:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Where jews dark skinned back then? It sounds logical cause south, but skin is genetic and Egyptians got darker over time how can we know the skin of a jew at this time?
Egyptians didn't really get darker via genetic evolution. The Sudan/Nubian deserts essentially formed an impassable terrain that prevented interaction between Egyptians and any darker skinned people to the South/South East.
As for the Jews, they're a middle/near eastern people so they are naturally a bit darker skinned. From what I understand quite a few Jewish exoduses took place over the years in Middle Eastern/Arabic countries scattering them. A lot ended up in Central/Eastern Europe forming the Ashkenazi Jewish population which is now the majority of them I think. This probably lead to the lighter skin we see today.
At least that's my very amateur and rough take on it. Take it with a grain of salt, Australian here. Never seen or met a Jewish person in real life.
I'm an Ashkenazi Jew from Russia (there are tons of us all over), I have family members that look like downright arabs. A lot of Jews became lighter due to intermarriage with European converts, but the genes are still strong so many still have large Middle Eastern noses, curly hair, and darker skin.
I was actually partially wrong on the intermarriage. Skin color is a tricky thing and doesn't often become lighter because of dilution. A lot of it has to do with climate. If you go to Israel, most people have darker skin- the main cause is tan. While I'm pretty pale (with dark eyes and hair though), my cousin has blue eyes but his skin is pretty dark because of the tan. Also, there are a lot of Middle Eastern nations that have pale skin. Lebanese, Saudis, etc have pale skin even though they are arabs, so the notion that if you are Jewish and have pale skin, then you must be mixed with something, is also not very correct. Plus, conversions to Judaism (needed for marriage) were highly frowned upon (Judaism is not a messianic religion like Christianity and Islam), plus back in the day Christians were not allowed to marry Jews (Ivanhoe and Fiddler on the Roof touch that subject) So yeah, who knows, I was thinking to do the DNA testing to see where my roots lie. Nobody knows what color Jesus and the rest of the Jews were in those times, but chances are they were tan, lol.
True, like I said I wouldn't know at all haha, just an uneducated guess on my part that I pieced together from Wikipedia pages, the topic is all pretty interesting I find.
Actually he is referred to as either Isaa (Jesus) Ibin (Son of) Al-Omran (Al is used to refer to denote that the name is a last name while Omran is Joachim), or Isaa (Jesus) Ibin (Son of) Maryam (Mary).
The greek form is ΙΗΣΟΥΣ. So add the confusion of transliterating the H letter which is a vowel in Greek but can be transliterated as both "E" or "HE" in latin. I actually wonder why it ended up as Iesus and not something like Ihesus.
Vowels are only transliterated as having an h in Greek if the spiritus asper was present in the ancient Greek. It was used to denote an h sound that could come from a couple sources, one being from an old s, compare ἑρπετόν 'herpeton' vs. serpēns 'creeping animal, reptile"
AshtarB · 1 points · Posted at 21:53:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The /h/ sound in Greek can only occur at the beginning of a word.
k-h · 1 points · Posted at 22:01:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Technically hebrew like arabic has only consonants.
leonffs · 1 points · Posted at 21:50:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
All of these names imply divine deliverance.
Did these names imply that before the time of Jesus or did the names take on that meaning afterward?
ND3I · 1 points · Posted at 22:09:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The Hebrew isn't just a name, a label without a particular meaning, as Jesus is in English. The Hebrew name incorporates two words that mean "Yah (short form of the deity's name) saves" or "Yah is salvation". It had that meaning for as long as there was a Hebrew language, that is, long before Jesus' time. It was (and still is) a very common Hebrew name.
leonffs · 1 points · Posted at 22:18:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You are correct except that Yeshua isn't a common Hebrew name at all, in fact it's nearly extinct. Yehoshua isn't extinct but very rare for the past 50 years or so.
ezro_ · 2 points · Posted at 22:30:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yehoshua actually sounds cool
ND3I · 2 points · Posted at 00:14:43 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Thanks. Going by what I've read; no first-hand experience here. Since "Joshua" is, and has been, popular, it seemed plausible that the Hebrew name it came from would still be popular. OTOH, given the unpleasant history with Christians since Jesus' time, I suppose it's understandably disfavored.
Actually, now that I actually read the script in the icon for the link, it looks like the names are Yehosh, Yehoshu and Yeshu (though I'm making up most of the vowels and not even being that consistent with the ones that I'm not making up). I don't really know if it makes sense to transliterate an ayn as a vowel though.
The rest of the explanation (how we got the 's' on the end from greek and latin) is all accurate.
It's odd that English kept the original Latin spelling for Jesus, but not for the other people. In German for example it's Paulus, not Paul, and Matthäus, not Matthew.
Yeshu (ישו) isn't Jesus' actual name as far as I'm aware. Only Yeshu'a (ישוע). Yeshu is generally the way Jews refer to him, possibly because they didn't like him enough to want to use his actual name.
Yeshua and Yehoshua do sound very similar, but I wonder if they're actually the same name. The "Yeho" prefix doesn't often get abbreviated into just "Yeh" afaik.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 00:02:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
John is easy, his name was Yohanan.
Peter is harder, literally and metaphorically. He was born Shimon (Simon). He took the nickname Kepa or Kefa, which meant stone. In Greek this became Petros, in Latin Petrus, from which we get Peter.
No, you're getting that wrong. If "Jesus" becomes "Joshua", "Joshua" also becomes "Joshua":
Yeshua was generally transcribed identically to "Jesus" in English. It was only when the Protestant Bible translators of ca. 1600 went back to the original languages that a distinction between Jesus and Jeshua appeared in English.
Yes, they would transcribe "Yeshua" to Jeshua (making an exception for their special guy, who kept the traditional Latin influenced form, "Jesus") and "Yehoshua" to Joshua. But one name is the short form of the other anyway, and some characters go by both forms in different parts of the bible.
The distinction between the longer Yehoshua and shorter Yeshua forms does not exist in Greek.
So it makes sense (for consistency) to render "Jesus" as either Jeshua, or, if we're being formal, Joshua.
I started calling my friend josh yeshua after doin a bunch of linguistic approximation work, take away is that something called linguistic parallel happens in regions so you get Tamil resembling Hebrew writing and then by parallelism you get isa yesu and jesus being similar and yeshua and Joshua being similar, rather than yeshua being Jesus
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:47:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
In German both "Jesus" and "Jesu" are actually used interchangeably.
If you shorten them, though, I think "Josh" makes sense for all of them. It also kind of drives home the point that "Jesus of Nazareth" wasn't some fancy, important title, it basically meant "Josh from two towns over".
Or, Yeshua bin Yosef would be "Joe's son Josh".
tyen0 · 1 points · Posted at 00:30:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
they are internally consistent
Now there is a phrase I never thought I would see in regards to the bible. :)
Holy shit. In Vietnamese, it's pronounced Ye-soo, Ze-soo, or Reh-soo depending on the region you're from. I always wondered why. I guess it's closer than Jesus to the real pronunciation.
How is this any different than the 13 different spellings of challah? You can literally organize the letters (in any order) h, a, l, and, optionally, begin with a c, and you'll have another correct spelling.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:28:49 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
There are many ways to write חלה (challah) in English, but it's only one word in Hebrew. The same goes for חנוכה which we spell Chanukah but others spell differently. Many ways to transliterate, but only one spelling in Hebrew.
Conversely the names ישו ,ישוע and יהושע are all forms of a related concept, but they are distinct words.
An example I gave elsewhere is the difference between יוֹנתן (Jonathan/Yonatan) and my name נתן (Nathan/Natan). Both come from the same root, use most of the same letters, and have the same interpretation, "he (God) has given." But that doesn't mean my name is Jonathan.
This brings new meaning to the whole YHWH thing. Perhaps the real name is Yehohuwa?
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:39:00 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That is very much it's own word.
Consider too that YHWH is usually 'pronounced' hashem or adonai. Can you imagine having a name that isn't said out loud?
Many if not most Hebrew names reference God, either directly (by using part of his name) or indirectly (as the implied subject of a verb used as a name). But nobody is named YHWH.
Lindur · 1 points · Posted at 01:32:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
My mom is adamant about saying "Yeshua" and almost views the name "Jesus" as blasphemy
ngScee · 1 points · Posted at 01:41:55 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
My name is joshua, ive always known the hebrew translation to be "god saves".
In India we call him Isa in the north and Yeshu in the south. Yeshu in the south could be because Christianity came to south of India before it travelled west. So the original name remained. We also add a "Maseeh" at the end which is shortened form of maseeha meaning messiah in Hindi.
Aadriak · 1 points · Posted at 02:55:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
He wouldn't have been called Yeshua, in Galilee they would have said Yeshu
tdriser · 1 points · Posted at 03:46:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Similar story around the "Virgin" birth. The original Hebrew word for Mary meant a young girl. That word, translated several times evolved into Virgin Mother. It actually was meant that the mother of the messiah (Mary) was a young girl.
What if all three of those are the result of an attempt to hide a pronunciation of Yahushua? Whether true or not, how about we study and try to get things right?
"4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
Acts 4:12 (RNKJV)
Another cool acronym I learned is that the charges on the cross in Hebrew would be Yeshua Ha'natzari V'Melech Ha'yisrael "Jesus the Nazareth and King of the Jews' would be the acronym YHVH the devine name
nigborg · 1 points · Posted at 22:47:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
lmao that's retarded
frilink · 0 points · Posted at 01:24:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
the greek changed the "Y" to "J" in Yeshua to make it sound like a greek name since jews were seen as a second class citizen.....
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:51:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Don't spread misinformation. Greek doesn't even have a "Y" or a "J" as distinct letters.
In reality they spelled his name with an iota, which is derived from the same letter as yodh and had most of the same properties.
This became "I" in Latin. "J" was split off from "I" over a thousand years later.
To my understanding, the name Yeshua, or Yah-Shua translated means God (Yah) Saves (Shua). When all of the Apocrypha was translated to Greek the Greeks translated the name God Saves to Son of God, or Je-Sus, Son of (Je) Zeus (Sus).
This is precisely where Christian leaders have repeatedly LIED about Jesus' Hebrew name. The Greek spelling of Jesus, translated into English, is actually the word CROSS.
Joshua comes into the picture due to the reference of him crossing the Jordan into the promised land. Yeshu, Yeshua, Yehoshua......all lies, 100% fabricated bullsh*t. Even the name "Jesus" is a lie.
Jesus of Nazareth's actual biblical name is NOT KNOWN since there's no reference to him (or his name) in the Old testament. The NT, in it's entirety, is written in Greek...all by 3rd party Romans hundreds of years after Jesus was crucified. Most Christians are completely oblivious of this truth and have NO IDEA that every single NT bible that's ever been published is based on these Greek texts (copy of a copy of a copy, then re-translated into Greek and copied again and again and again). The texts that we have could be the 4-500th edition of an unknown and countless number of copies. It would be like any of you writing a copy of the Declaration of Independence in French....from a 4-500th edition copy and then using your copy as "the gospel truth".
The Apostles were LONG dead before the earliest known copy John was actually written...in 125 A.D. Not a single book in the NT was written by it's author, they're all 3rd party copies written by Roman Pagans at the time of Constantine. Hence why they're all written in Greek and not Aramaic or Hebrew. And to make matters even worse, there's no original texts in existence. We don't even know if they exist at all.
Catholicism and most of Christianity is founded in Paganism.
Now here comes a HUGE bomb for anyone that celebrates Christmas. So if you wish to continue in believing the lies that your forefathers have passed down for 1700 years, then skip this next fact cuz it's REALLY gonna ruin your day!
Christmas in it's entirety is also a blatant lie, one that is so disgusting and truly evil, you may never celebrate it again....cuz here comes the TRUTH people!
Christmas is made of two words = Christ & Mass (2) links
The actual BIBLICAL SABBATH begins on Friday at sundown and ends on Saturday at sundown.
Lastly....most of Christianity is founded in lies. The NT was not only written by Pagans, but it was composed by Pagans. The NT is not scripture, it's a carefully planned deception:
Because the Romans omitted what didn't fit into Pagan beliefs and the control that Constantine and the Roman empire desired.....just like Herod and the Sanhedrin of Jesus' time.
Lets' just say he's spent some time on his knees...
wtmh · 1 points · Posted at 03:47:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes.
pHScale · 45 points · Posted at 21:52:14 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Growing up, I always thought he said "the repetitive man shall pass." It made sense because he kept repeating it.
4me4you · 4 points · Posted at 00:34:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The translations my brain did as a kid were far less logical. The first translation was "penmanship man will pass". Second time watching it was "impotent man shall pass" didn't know what what impontence was as a 9 year old. It wasn't until I watched it as a teen I heard what he said and my young translations were all wrong. Favorite movie ever!
The Latin alphabet didn't have a J. For ages, "I" and "J" were the same letter in English. But the French started saying "J" sounds in some of their words, so they started using "J" to write them down, and eventually the English started doing that too.
[deleted] · 5 points · Posted at 00:48:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Fun fact: this was because the letter J wasn't actually in Latin (not at first, anyway). There was only the letter I, which was used to make the Y sound (to confuse things further, Latin had the letter Y, but it made a sort of U sound similar to the one in French), so "Julius Caesar" would be "IVLIVS CAESAR" (they also didn't have lowercase letters or the letter U; rather, the letter V made both the U and W sounds) and Jesus would be "IESVS".
Later on, the letter I was sometimes stylized as J, until J became a separate letter entirely (still pronounced as Y, as it still is in most European languages), which is why we have "Julius" and "Jesus", but they'd be said "Yulius" and "Yesus" and written with an I in Classical Latin. All names starting with a J are Latinized with an I: "Jacob" becomes "IACOBVS" for example.
From here: "[...] Subsequently, in the Latin alphabet the letter J was developed as a variant of I, and this distinction was later used to distinguish the consonantal "y" sound [j] from the vocalic "i" sound [i]. However, at about the same time there was a sound change in many of the languages of Western Europe, such that the "y" sound changed into a "j" sound ([dʒ], or sometimes [ʒ]). So we have it that in English, the letter J now represents a consonant [dʒ] which is not obviously similar to the vowel [i], despite the fact that they descend from the same letter and the same sound. (English also has many [dʒ] sounds spelled with J which come from native Germanic roots.)"
(If you don't know the phonetic alphabet: the ʒ sound is the G in "genre"/"regime" or the S in pleasure. With a D in front of it, /dʒ/ is the English J sound. The sound listed above as [j] is the English Y sound, but it is written in the phonetic alphabet as /j/ because it's said that way in most European languages.)
It seems that it wasn't related to an alphabet, but rather to a change in the language(s) itself. English is the only language that uses it to make the /dʒ/ sound.
Typo, sorry. I fixed it. The letter Y didn't make the U sound like it is in English - it was more of the French "u". The letter V was both U and W. Later on, it was sometimes written as U, with a more rounded bottom, and for a while they were interchangeable. Eventually, V as a consonant changed its sound to the V sound we have in English today, but we still needed to represent the W sound, so two Vs were put together - this was still when it could be written as U - to make a W, which was then given the very creative name "double-u".
This is why "Veni, vidi, vici" is said "Weni, widi, wiki" in Classical Latin.
Yeah, I'm sorry, I was just making a dumb joke. Where I am from 'winky' is a euphemism for penis. I do understand the difference between Italian and Latin. Thank you for taking the safe route and making sure I didn't go around ignorant!
The letter J wasn't even unambiguously in English until the 19th century. That's why in the District, where the east-west streets are named alphabetically, there's no "J Street." It goes straight from I Street to K Street because at the time the streets were laid out "J" was considered a variant letter of "I" and not a distinct letter of its own.
The letter G was also originally a C with a single stroke added to it along the bottom. G, J, U, and W are just modified forms of other letters, although there are probably more than just those four that fall into the category.
It's more like, "The English i, y, and j all have their roots in the Latin I, but were later split into three distinct phonemes".
Edit- It wouldn't have been like Ioshua either, both because Latin didn't have a sh sound, and because masculine names dont really end in -a. They end generally in us, so it'd be "Iesus". Which is really just a derivative of the Greek "Iesos".
How the fuck is this not the top comment. I mean, it's great that the top comment currently is just factual and helpful, that's actually fantastic. But c'mon, this quote should not be buried this deeply. Get on it people.
I liked how in the old school "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade" video game. The one where you click like "Pick Up" "Walk To" etc, the language and spelling for that puzzle changed with each play thru.
Loved that game. Still play it sometimes in DosBox.
Well, I mean, classical latin, yea there's no J. But a thousand years after his death, J is a thing, and he has it. That was still the 'latin alphabet' too.
In Hebrew, his name is ישוע. The "י" letter makes a "yeh" or "i" sound depending on context, so when translated to Greek and Latin, you're right: They used an "I".
Apparently "J" also used to make a "y" sound sometime back there, and over time it started making the sound we know today.
I have recently started learning Hebrew out of interest, and was surprised to learn that that instead of calling themselves Jewish, its actually "Yehudi", and Jerusalem, is actually "Yerushalayem". They don't teally use the "Jeh" sound as far as I can tell.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:56:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I believe that's because there is no letter J in the Latin Alphabet. For must of the alphabets history it was just another of the sounds that the letter I could make.
That always bothered me. The letter J wouldn't have been around at whatever time that was made, and if J was in use by whoever created it, it would have been used in the spelling.
The actual story of the phrase was a blind guy (named joshua) who gold plated nickels and passed them off as 5 dollar pieces. When he was found out and sued, he won because he never actually asked for the change he was receiving.
Source: Paul harvey
[deleted] · 33 points · Posted at 21:27:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And that's the rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrest of the stor-ry.
I had an Azdush in my game. I let him live and made him a war chief just so I could stop by occasionally to hear his men chant "Ass Douche! Ass Douche!"
Ooh man, Hoshu the Red. What a fucker. Asshole killed me so many times he worked his own way up to war chief. Most satisfying boss battle I've ever had though. I don't even remember the story of that game, I just kept making my way through it so I could unlock more powerful abilities to take on Hoshu. He would kill me, I'd go back to the story, he'd kill me again. When I did eventually kill him I just quit because there was no way the actual game ending was going to be any better.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:17:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That was me. I became so obsessed with hunting captains when i finally got through to more powers i had wiped most of the board
Are you supposed to have the dude that killed you the most as a final baws in the vanilla ending even if you killed him already? That pissed me the Fuck off.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 02:15:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah i think your ultimate nemesis is that uruk. Mozu popped back up for me at the end, but oh boy did i end him.
Though i really only had like 1 or 2 other uruks pop up after killing the, but Mozu never stopped coming back.
What is this a reference to? Sounds like an awesome movie/book/game.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 05:47:19 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Lord of the Rings: Shadow of Mordor. It plays like Assassins Creed and Batman Arkham series but features a system of bosses in the open world's which have randomised names and perks. Defeating or being defeated by these captains and warchiefs also effects other Uruks with a system of power between them.
Shimon Bar Kokhva (Simon, son of the stars) was a great revolutionary who fought so well, it took years for legions gathered from all over Rome years to finally reconquer Israel.
Yehuda Hamakabe (Judah The Hammer) was a warrior who defeated the armies of King Antioches with only his Maccabees.
Nir Barkat is the mayor of Jerusalem, and tackled a terrorist last year, saving the life of one of his constituents.
Its a beautiful video. But its even more fun to imagine the man with the beard and thinning hair passive aggressively fighting the little girl for the solo spotlight.
Aramaic was the everyday language of the region. Hebrew was more of a religious language that was used only by religious authorities at the time. I'm sure Jesus understood Hebrew however as he was Jewish.
Maybe understood a bit of Greek and/or Latin too, at least some words or phrases. To the extent that he actually existed, at least.
Interus · 2 points · Posted at 02:25:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Hebrew and Aramaic was spoken in various parts of ancient Israel. I believe overall Aramaic had overtaken Hebrew. But since Jewish religious rites were still in Hebrew, if he studied the old testament and was a rabbi- he had to know Hebrew.
Given how much the early church tried to distance Christianity from Judaism by, among other things, changing the day of Sabbath, circumcision, kosher, cleanliness rites, as well as ignoring Jewish holidays.. we really have no idea how accurate the common assertion that Aramaic was the primary language. It mightve simply beeen a "stop calling us Jews dammit" thing.
Yup I responded to someone else with a couple links and expanded on it. Aramaic was the everyday language for many people in the Levant whereas Hebrew was primarily a religious language.
atizzy · 2 points · Posted at 00:19:44 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
There are two main dialects of modern Aramaic (neo-Aramaic),
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 21:57:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't know if you're much of a sports fan but since you're an Assyrian you might find this cool. There is an Assyrian fighter in the ufc and he absolutely kicks ass, he knocks out and submits dudes left and right. His name is Beneil Dariush. I know this isn't very relevant to the conversation but I thought you might be interested that such a bad ass Assyrian exists.
My grandparents often used the minced oath "sheeshka maggoona!" I thought it was some Yiddish doggerel picked up as carpathian christians, but it appears it's a corrupted version of Jesus's name in Aramaic. Wild.
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 03:01:55 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
ܝܶܫܘܽܥ ܡܫܝܺܚܳܐ is "Yeshū Mshiyhō" in Jacobite/Western Syriac.
Rippa70 · 1 points · Posted at 03:48:29 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Could we please call it West Assyrian? Suryoyo (the "syriac" languague) is West Assyrian and Othuroyo is East Assyrian. There is no western Syriac.
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 03:54:53 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
ܐܶܢܳܐ ܐ̱ܢܳܐ ܡܰܠܦܳܢ ܠܶܫܳܢܳܐ ܣܘܽܪܝܳܝܳܐ . I call it 'Syriac.' Every scholar I know calls it that. Every book I read on it calls it that. Is this some political thing about which I'm unaware?
Rippa70 · 1 points · Posted at 16:58:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You just called it West Syriac, that implies there is something called east Syriac which is purely false. Call the language of the west Assyrians Syriac. Source: I am an Assyrian speaking Syriac.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 17:02:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, 'Western' is one way of describing the way things are pronounced. We don't make a distinction, for instance, between ܘ̇ and ܘܽ in our pronunciation (so ܝܰܥܩܘܒ is "Yaqub" for us, not "Yaqob" as someone in the East would pronounce it). We likewise pronounce ܳ as a long o, so ܐܰܠܳܗܳܐ is "Alōhō".
Secondly, distinguishing between Western and Eastern pronunciations in no way makes any claims about Eastern Syriac being somehow defective. I'm not sure where you got that idea.
That isn't his last name that would have been a title. Since HaMashiach means "The Anointed One." His name was likely Yeshua Ben-Yosef (Joshua son of Joseph)
Christ isn't his last name either, so it's an equivalent parallel. HaMasiach and Christos are both honorifics, they just sound like last names to modern people who are used to the firstname-lastname structure. I've always liked Tolkein's similar rendering "Theoden King" for a more moden equivalent.
Yep, Messiah means "anointed one" as in he is the one anointed as king. Hebrew tradition would be to put oil on a person's hair as a gesture of saying: this guy is going to our king.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 02:39:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
or Yeshua Ben-Yahovah, If you were a follower of his...
Is ben your first name or a part of your last name. If it's a part of your last name and year of Jewish descent then yes. If it's your first name no your name is Ben
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 02:44:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's a pretty catchy name...Jon Bon Jovi.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 02:44:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
There was a man who went to my church who would always pray referring to God as "dad" or "daddy." It sounded so weirdly informal as opposed to "father." It does mean the same thing, sure, but I never got used to hearing him say it.
I think this is a Jewish thing originally. I know it was pretty normal where I went as a kid, but then again our rebbe was kind of zany, lots of belly rubs etc.
[deleted] · 29 points · Posted at 21:48:08 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That is my understanding of the word, that it was the informal word a child would use for their dad, rather than something you would use to refer to someone else's father.
Not exactly; there was a scholar a long time ago who suggested that 'abba' was like 'daddy', in that it's a thing small children would call their fathers.
But the problem with that is that it's not in any way limited to children, and the sense of it in other texts is more along the lines of a term of endearment rather than a diminutive.
If I were translating it for modern English, I'd probably choose "papa" or "dad" over "daddy", for that reason.
Yes. Mark (I think) went so far as to preserve the Aramaic "abba" in his Gospel, which was written in Greek. It implied a close personal connection, the kind now implied by calling one's father "daddy" minus the creepiness.
That's pretty common in English, and pretty rare in other languages.
Interestingly English has adopted a far more formal liturgical vocabulary over the past few centuries. It's pretty common for European languages to have a formal and informal form of the word "you." In those languages it's almost universal to use the less formal form when referring to or addressing God. Likewise where a formal and informal form of a word exists, people will almost always use the less formal form when addressing God. The idea being that no one is as intimately familiar to us as God is. So we should use the most intimate, familiar, and informal language. In most languages calling God, "Daddy" would be preferred over "Father."
Also interestingly, English used to be this way. English used to have an informal form of "you", it was "thee/thou." That's why the Bible (King James Version at least) is filled with all those thee/thou/thy words referring to God. "Thy will be done?" That's the language you use for a close, dear, intimate relative or friend. No one would have said "Thy will be done" to King James. It would have been "Your will be done." One spoke to God as a familiar not as a Lord.
But please don't take this in any way as a criticism of your method of communicating with the Divine. You do what works best for you. I just thought it was an interesting point on how language changes.
Thank you so much for that info! I love learning new things and that's a good one! I'll likely still stick with how I do it now, but maybe be inclined to test out the other way. :-)
I always figured that was the reason to do it. It gets you out of the habit of thinking of Him exclusively as an all-powerful diety, and learn to think of him as a very close and personal father who loves you.
I could be mistaken, but I heard once that it's more like "daddy-sir", owing to some suffix on the abba. Which xhanges the character of the whole intimacy argument a bit, and also sounds a little creepy.
"The New Testament describes James, Joseph (Joses), Judas (Jude) and Simon as brothers of Jesus (Greek: ἀδελφοὶ, translit. adelphoi, lit. 'brothers'). Also mentioned, but not named, are sisters of Jesus. Some scholars argue that these brothers, especially James, held positions of special honor in the early Christian church."
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:25:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted] · 106 points · Posted at 20:34:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sup dudes? Intro time: I'm your savior Josh Christ. Follow me and you'll be totally righteous! Because real talk? You guys are bein pretty lame right now. There's like... Poor people and greedy rich dudes and stuff. Pretty bad vibes overall to be honest.
But enough with this negativity, im here to flip the script and take you all to a killer time up with my dad in heaven!
Yeah.... "Christ" is likewise a greek word. Or close to one. It means something by the way. It's literally "The annointed one". A title like "duke" or "esquire". Like "Joshua", a better transliteration would be "messiah".
So there was never really a "Jesus Christ". But there was probably some guy called Joshua, the messiah, but in Hebrew.
oh. Right, and in case that bit throws anyone for a loop, "messiah" means "saviour". So if you were going to make a translation of the bible in plain language that didn't try and use a bunch of archaic words kids didn't understand, it'd be "Joshua, that dude who's gonna save your ass".
ianme · 3 points · Posted at 21:56:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I mean, anybody can be named Joshua now but Jesus is weird. If everyone called him Joshua from the get-go, it'd probably sound really cool by comparison to the dozen Jesus' you know.
slabby · 1 points · Posted at 21:50:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Maybe just Josh Chris for short. He could open up a really awesome line of surfer steakhouses.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:17:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Josh the anointed.
Josh, holy king of the Jews.
(Christ being a title denoting that he is the anointed ruler-priest of the line of Jewish ruler-priests descended from King David, who could be called David Christ or David the Messiah, since he held the same title... )
Moshiah ben David, named as such because as the legend goes the messiah will be a direct descendant of King david, which as each next millenium passes and more genocides happen tends to get tricky to follow especially since we have no idea who Moshiah is or will be. How convenient
I'm biased but I feel like my pickup lines at the bar would be much improved if I could start by saying "Hi there, my name is Joshua Christ. Can I but you a drink?"
Oh. My. Josh... Oh-em-jay you guys. Like, seriously.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 03:19:18 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I wonder if Christianity stops becoming a dominant religion, would we still just keep using Jesus Christ as a swear for the rest of human history just because it sounds so natural?
raphier · 1 points · Posted at 04:11:19 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yehoshua Hakadoch. Eh... Should've used a futuristic name, he was son of god after all..
Maybe that's because we're only used to Jesus Christ, if he was actually named Floopy Christ we probably would have liked that more than Poopy or Jesus or Joshua.
Buddy of mine is Josh, his father is Joe, and they are part of the same tribe as Jesus was, making him Yehoshua ben Yosef ha Levi (Josh son of Joseph, the Levite).
qovneob · 27 points · Posted at 20:26:57 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Somewhat relevant anecdote:
A girl I know, whos not the brightest, got a chihuahua and wanted to name it "Haysoos" but didnt know the 'mexican' spelling, so now the dog is named "Hey Jesus"
Wedge09 · 50 points · Posted at 20:03:22 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah, Zeus! As in, father of Apollo? Mt. Olympus? Don’t fuck with me, or I’ll shove a lightning bolt up your ass? Zeus! You got a problem with that?
JD2212 · 6 points · Posted at 21:59:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wedge09 · 2 points · Posted at 22:15:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Been a long time since I have seen it. I always remember his facial expression as he was asking him if he knows about Apollo or Mt. Olympus. I could be wrong.
Haha...thank you. My brother recently moveed to La Jolla in southern California. I tried to google map his place and there is no "La Hoya" on the map. To this day I insist on calling it "Lajolla." Now people who have never heard of this city will not be able to map it.
Icsto · 1 points · Posted at 21:34:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted] · 4 points · Posted at 02:21:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Not really. They're a set of tribes who, of course, take on a lot of the race of the surrounding gentiles. Maybe the Jews were a distinct race back then, though.
lol I'm pretty sure a decent chunk of devout White American Christians would probably consider him an Arab terrorist had he been alive now. This is what most historians and scientists believe how Jesus looked like. Dude was born in the Levant region of the ME, not Scandinavia.
This is what most historians and scientists believe how Jesus looked like.
Considering we have no descriptions of what he looked like, no it isn't. That's a picture of what a typical Semitic man in that time and place might have looked like, sure, but to say that 'most historians' think he looked like that is a drastic oversimplification.
[deleted] · 10 points · Posted at 22:34:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
I think we can all establish that he didn't have white skin, blond hair and blue eyes.
That's a picture of what a typical Semitic man in that time and place might have looked like
This might come as a shock, but Jesus of Nazareth was a Semitic man. Of course it isn't exactly what he looks like, it's what we think he does based on what little evidence we know of his life.
I think we can all establish that he didn't have white skin, blond hair and blue eyes.
To be fair, it's rare to see a blonde Jesus. He's definitely depicted as paler than any person who lived in the middle east 2000 years ago would have been, but he's not like...drawn as being Aryan.
Also, Jesus of Nazareth is not a historical figure. His father was not human, so we can't say what colour his skin was. Maybe his race changed every time he woke up, since man was supposed to be made in God's image. He may have been based on a real person but artists are not drawing a human Jesus, they are drawing the son of God. It was normal for painters centuries ago to use models of their own race for Jesus, it wasn't because they were racial supremacists but because it was practical. 16th century Asian paintings depict European missionaries with Asian features.
Semitic refers to a linguistic term. It's like referring to a Honduran as Spanish just because they speak Spanish. Considering Hebrew is closer to Greek than Persian, I wouldn't necessarily call Jesus 'Semetic.'
[deleted] · 8 points · Posted at 23:49:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
What? Greek and Persian are closer to each other than either is to Hebrew. Indo-European vs. Semitic
You don't need to be Jewish to be Semitic. Semitism also refers to Shem (as in the three sons of Noah, Ham, Shem, and Japheth) Ham went on into Africa, Shem went east into Asia, and Japheth went West according to the story. Hebrews (Jews) didn't become a thing decreed by Yahweh until Abraham, with his son, Jacob, which is much further down the bloodline from Noah, biblically.
lmao you guys really want Jesus to be white. Semitic languages are a branch of Afroasiatic languages in Western Asia and North Africa.
Hebrew in no way is related to Greek. Greek belongs to a group of languages called the Hellenic languages while Persian belongs to the Indo-Iranian family, both of which belong to the overarching Indo-European languages.
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 00:52:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
...Nobody was talking about race here, why do you want to inject it into this conversation?
This might come as a double shock, but Jesus almost certainly never existed as a physical being. The fact that his life entirely prefigures the conquest of Judea by the Roman Emperor Titus should be a clue. He was a mythic figure, like Noah or Moses. Look up the work of Joseph Atwill in this regard.
doesnt the bible say his skin was the color of burnt brass?
[deleted] · 7 points · Posted at 22:55:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well yes but in the same breath it also says his hair and head were white so I'd take it with a grain of salt. Thing is this description was from when he appeared to someone in a vision ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
Logic says he was semitic looking as hell of course.
Not all Middle Eastern people are considered terrorists. I remember one Middle Eastern guy who was praised by Western media for his peace works. I found the article right here: https://i.imgur.com/CRaBPOx.jpg
regendo · 7 points · Posted at 22:40:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That was over 20 years ago though. Doesn't really say anything about how people would view him today.
Al Qaeda carried out quite a few attacks in the 90's and bombed the USS Cole while it was refueling in Yemen in 2000. 9/11 was more of a culmination than a beginning
No, I wasn't talking about all White Christians. The devout crowd was more in reference to Evangelicals. Even so, you'd be kidding yourself if you didn't think a sizable minority of Christians here wouldn't get triggered if I decided to call Jesus a brown Middle Eastern man (especially those in the Midwest or Deep South).
alpaca7 · 10 points · Posted at 22:26:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, I wasn't talking about all White Christians.
I know, you said a decent chunk...
I get those people exist, and if someone makes those claims I'd love to see them called out, but you shouldn't make assumptions. My point is that your assumptions are just as harmful.
Pretty sure they wouldn't. They might laugh if you drew a parallel between that and current profiling of Middle Easterners in the US, but anyone with even a passable knowledge of Christianity knows where the Holy Land is.
Vektor0 · -1 points · Posted at 22:48:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Considering most White American Christians consider themselves allies of Israel, and Israelis are just as Arab as any other Arabian nation, I wholly doubt that.
"Arab" is an ethnic group. Israel is comprised of European Ashkenazi/Sephardi Jews, Middle Eastern Mizradi Jews and African (mostly Ethiopian) Jews. A minority of Arabs may be Jewish or Christian but not all Israelis (which is a nationality btw) are Arab.
I even heard somebody claim that the King James Bible was not written by Jesus his brother James and that Jesus did not even speak English. Can you believe that? Pfff, the stuff you read on the internet.
The fish is a reference to multiple things. Most of his prominently-named apostles in the Gospels were fishermen, and when Jesus asked them to join him, he said "You are fishermen, but I will make you fishers of men." A meal of fish also features prominently in a number of mealtime scenes in various Gospels.
More than that, the Greek word ἰχθύς (ichthys, "fish") is a backronym:
Also, during the time of Roman persecution, Christians would use it as a secret code. When you met someone, you'd draw half a fish in the ground. If the other person finished the drawing, you'd know they were another Christian.
TDWfan · 8 points · Posted at 23:23:37 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That sounds like such a foreign culture. Having to meet in secret and having a universal password.
Of course, Christianity spread like wildfire in that first century.
Then when the evil persecution ended, they could finally murder all non-believers and commit unspeakable horrors while claiming to themselves be the victim.
But mostly it's a reference to the astrological sign Pisces, which housed the sun during the epoch of Jesus' supposed existence. Before that it was the Taurus, the bull, hence all those winged bulls, apis bulls etc of the Egyptian, Minoan and Mesopotamian civilizations. The next one is Aquarius, hence all the New Age 'age of Aquarius' stuff.
You kinda got downvoted but this is a new one on me. Being a kid in the 60s-70s it's most interesting (and that song now runs through my head - thanks a bunch). Sources / any other documentation?
That's why I said "backronym". I'm not saying they invented the word, they just picked it because they could make a convenient acronym/acrostic out of it.
AT-ST · 1 points · Posted at 20:31:37 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
m not saying they invented the word, they just picked it because they could make a convenient acronym/acrostic out of it.
Isn't that how a lot of acronyms are made?
pgm123 · 11 points · Posted at 20:58:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Some acronyms come first and words are formed from them. For example, NATO was called the North Atlantic Treaty Organization before they created the acronym NATO. Scuba also was created from the description and wasn't a word previously.
On the other hand, the Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act (PATRIOT Act) was created by trying to find words to fit for Patriot. It's a backronym. Another example was when NASA renamed its ISS treadmill to Combined Operational Load-Bearing External Resistance Treadmill (C.O.L.B.E.R.T.). NASA is still a regular acronym, though.
so, a backronym is basically a reversed engineered acronym. Instead of putting the initialism together and speaking it, come up with a word, and then make each letter fit the intent of the the initialism.
pgm123 · 1 points · Posted at 02:49:18 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes
AT-ST · 2 points · Posted at 21:43:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I see what you are saying now. I was confused by your initial comment.
Impregnating his mother so he can be born. Him being his own dad. He, immortal god, sacrificing his life to save us from himself. Wink.
Think about the situation from poor Mary's point of view.
She marries a carpenter, good solid working-class man, but he turns out to be a religious nutjob. Keeps prattling on and on about the sanctity of her virginity. Meanwhile she is 16 years old and her hormones are pumping and there's a steady stream of burly carpenters trooping through the house at all hours. Of course she cheated on him.
When she began showing, Joseph's cognitive dissonance and/or shame was so great, he had to retreat into the tale of divine conception, and remain there for the rest of his days.
ciridan · 7 points · Posted at 18:46:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I was told that it was how Christians would identify themselves to one another when persecution was high early on. One person would draw half of the fish and if someone was a Christian they would finish it.
It was like secret handshake so one christian could identify another christian without the authorities finding out. There have been many places and many times where becoming christian could get you killed. So if you wanted to know if the person you where talking to was also a christian you would draw half a circle in the sand with your sandal. If the other person would draw the other half of the circle, completing the fish symbol shape ... then you would know he was a christian. /r/AirborneRodent explained the rest!
During the time when Romans were persecuting Christians people would draw a curved line on the ground with their foot, if the other person finished the fish it meant you were both believers. It was also used to mark safe places for Christians to practice their religion, I'd give you a source but I'm on mobile.
It comes from the zodiac Pisces which is a fish. Firstly you must understand that the Earth besides spinning to cause a day and orbiting to cause a year, it also wobbles. A full wobble rotation happens around every 25,000 years and this causes the precession of the equinox. The last zodiac sign right before the sun rises is the current "age" and it changes with the planets wobble. In the story of jesus the current age was the age of Pieces. Ancient humans watched the stars and sky and came up with stories based on what they saw, this entertainment was passed on through generations and is the origin of all religious stories. For example the sun brings warmth, light, and life so people worshipped it as a deity. This deity has had many names, like Ra. Also it is Jesus, who was born in the East where the sun rises, and is depicted wearing a crown of thorns that represents the suns rays. Twelve disciples for twelve signs in the zodiac. Sorry for going off topic this is so clear to me yet no one can see or wants to accept it.
[deleted] · 0 points · Posted at 02:54:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
There is no denying that all religions share common themes and symbolism to astronomical bodies. Why? It is obvious to me it is because they are all a retelling of a story that was created before written history. But do give me an alternative answer.
ZeroNom · 0 points · Posted at 04:20:31 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, they're right. Christianity is a rewriting of other pagan solar cults that utilize lots of astrological symbolism. It is very obvious. But I doubt that you'll see it, because you already have your mind made up. It's more than Zeitgeist, which is just a silly YouTube movie. There is a whole library of material to this respect. Go to USBible.com for a start.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 05:18:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
ZeroNom · 1 points · Posted at 03:10:25 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's really not just astrology. There is a copious amount of numerology in both the old and new testament, and much of the myth is very heavily borrowed from Babylonian and Egyptian myth. The Christ story appears in stories as diverse as Krishna and Odin. Also, there are astrological allusions in the old testament as well. Jacob's twelve sons clearly correspond to the Zodiac. Jesus just happened to be born almost exactly when the sign started to rise on the spring equinox in the sign of pisces. Also, there is the story of the two fish feeding the 5,000. The sign of Pisces is two fish. I guess Jesus could be a magic fish replicator, but I think it's more likely a metaphor about the power of the zodiac.
This is just the tip of the iceberg. I can go on if you like.
ZeroNom · 0 points · Posted at 04:17:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Christianity is a replica of other astro-theological cults. It contains a TON of astrology. It is basically a retelling of the sun's movement through the zodiac. Most people do not want to see this because it means that they've been swallowing lies for their entire lives, and they don't want to see the people they respect as wrong. It's very obvious that Jesus represents the Piscean godform. But what are you gonna do? They just don't want to see.
ufonyx · 1267 points · Posted at 16:58:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yup. Don't tell my cousin Josh. He loves to talk about how weird it is that "the Hispanics" feel so comfortable naming their kids Jesus, while "white people know it's disrespectful to our lord and savior".
Although I have often argued with him over his many racist statements, I have never told him the truth about his own name. He named his son Joshua Jr.
Moore doesn't want to make a sequel to Lamb because he didn't think it could li e up to the original. Now this is fair enough, but wouldn't you like to see Biff come back like others have?
Sounds like a game. Let's oil up the Savior and whoever can catch and hold on to him is redeemed in the eyes of the Lord and receives eternal salvation. Second place is a toaster.
It's about time for a buddy Jew sitcom with Aubrey Graham and Oily Josh. One is a Canadian rapper and child star, and the other can whistle by clapping his hands together! Together, they make beautiful music.
No, it means he was annointed, like lots of ranking officials, kings, priests, etc, were. It's like saying "crowned" is a title. It became used as a title, but originally it was more of a designation.
He did so in an argumentive way. Reddit is always a simmering powderkeg ready to blow, and everyone naturally assumes a reply is a refute. People on here need to be more careful with word choices and tone, or specifically write "I agree, to add". It's important not just on here but at work as well.
It doesn't seem argumentative to me at all. He added information and never said anything in the negative. I do agree with the rest of your comment though.
People on here need to be more careful with word choices and tone, or specifically write "I agree, to add". It's important not just on here but at work as well.
Honestly I think the burden rests with the other party. People should not assume that any comment (or question) must be an attempt at an argument, or questioning their veracity. Aren't we all here to talk, and share info, and learn things? Then why be so argumentative (or hostile) when someone adds in a fact of their own, or asks for clarification?
Sure, I get that words on a screen don't carry tone as well as when we speak. But most of us wouldn't react to people that way IRL. Or maybe they do, but just don't say anything about it, and that's why there are so many uptight assholes out there... who knows?
Oh, and regarding this bit:
He did so in an argumentive way.
I honestly didn't take it that way at all. i see nothing in his statement that seems argumentative, per se. To be fair, it did seem like a bit of a non sequitur, and I was confused why he was even bringing it up (didn't really seem to follow the previous comment) but it really didn't seem argumentative, to me.
I do not think the burden rests on the people reading the content. If people reading the content are reading it in a certain way, the person who writes it is at fault. "Jesus was just his name" comes off as a retort, clearly. He's also discussing Christ, which was not mentioned in the comment at all. There is a lot of room for improving this reply.
People do not assume comments are argumentative, there is just good reason to. I could make this comment sound argumentative very quickly. It's the nature of a reply system. It's something we need to keep in mind, not pretend doesn't exist or hope for a better world.
anointed to be king! In the bible you read a lot of time a prophet tell somebody he is going to be king and then anoints him wit oil. So calling somebody "the anointed one" is similar to saying "des·tined to be king" Or like in the king Arthur mythology. Who ever pulls out the sword is the rightful king!
One of my seminary professors said that because the Greeks had no real concept of pouring oil on kings like happened in the the Ancient Near East that naming Jesus "Christ" would be like saying that we worship a dead oily guy. Which he presented as something that he thought was pretty funny and that the first missionaries had some challenge because of that linguistic barrier.
While funny, Clause is not a title, neither is Santa. It comes from an English bastardization of the German Sankt Nicklaus, (Saint Nicholas), which when spoken in quick succession sounds like Santa Claus to the lay.
possibly, but definitely abused the default copy constructor, since he clearly bypassed the correct constructor's requirements (flour, baking, fishing nets, etc.)
May be hypocritical of him to think that, but there were other people in the bible named Joshua(Yehoshua.) The name means "God is my salvation" and it's a perfectly honorable name for anyone to have.
Came to the comments just to see if someone had the correct answer to this. Congratulations! Yehoshua = Joshua = "God is salvation." Yeshua = Jesus = "Salvation." Granted, it gets more complicated than this when looking at the evolution of language over time, but from a modern perspective, this can be considered correct.
This is the point in the discussion when someone usually states with bold profundity, "Yeah, but you can make anything fit your analysis with details!"
ZoomJet · 1 points · Posted at 02:46:48 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well he never sinned so he didn't need to be saved anyway. That's why he could be a sacrifice for our sins. But he was meant to be an example for how we should live. That's why there's a distinction between father, son, and Holy Spirit.
It's like if you had to move a box that was too heavy for you. But Jesus never got a box in the first place so he's free to help everyone with theirs.
Exactly, I don't believe in a theory that is denied by 97% of the national academy of science because I'm trying to be edgy. There are more scientist in the academy who believe that climate change isn't real than there are who believe the bible is true so the next time someones says climate change is real I guess I should respond with "Don't cut yourself on that edge"
cabarny · 3 points · Posted at 23:14:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So, may I ask why you feel "the national academy of science" is the chief authority on all matters of life?
May I ask why you go to a plumber when your plumbing breaks or a mechanic when your car breaks? Also I don't think they are the authority on "all matters of life" but of course you knew that before you wrote that. Very typical behavior.
cabarny · 2 points · Posted at 23:20:43 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ah, avoiding the question. Wonderful.
My point is scientism is no less a religion than Christianity. Convince yourself of what persuasion you may, but scientism, too, has deities.
(Hint: science changes kinda quickly. It makes no better a deity than you would charge Christianity.)
Right. You asked a dumb question and I provided you with an equally dumb question. You essentially asked "Why would you go to a physicist when confronting questions about that which physically exist". I responded with "Why would you go to a mechanic about your car". Also you prefaced your question by misrepresenting my views as "all matters of life" which was clearly NOT what I was claiming. This shows how dishonest you're willing to be.
My point is scientism is no less a religion than Christianity. Convince yourself of what persuasion you may, but scientism, too, has deities.
Religion is a THING. Science is not THING - it's a methodology of isolating truth. Nice try on the old "science is a religion" tactic. Science proposes a theory and attempts to prove it's own theory wrong. Religion proposes their theory is correct and specifically demands that you do NOT attempt to prove it wrong.
I also should note that although I believe you used the word "scientism" as insult - To basically imply that science is a religion. The definition is: "The view point that the scientific method AND the empirical science constitutes the most authoritative worldview or the most valuable part of human learning". While I do believe the scientific method IS the best method for understanding truth - I do not believe it's the only method and I would have accepted a strong philosophical argument for your position; of which you do not have. You do not have a valid philosophical reason OR empirical evidence for your belief.
Yeah, except it's even stupider than that. It's like if he created boxes and made them too heavy for you, then showed up to help you move yours, sort of, sometimes, told you not to complain about it, and then made damn sure you thanked him for the help. Jesus is an asshole friend.
In the metaphor, the box is sin. You chose to pick up the box. You volunteered and you can't just skimp out on responsibility. The point is he gave us rules, we chose to break them, so instead of just making us all deal with consequences eternally, he gave us a way to fess up in exchange for no more punishment.
We fucked up, and he gave us a second chance. Wether you believe in it or not is up to you, but trying to spin it as Jesus being a "bad friend" is either ignorant or malicious.
And FYI, that salvation is no good to anyone who doesn't believe they're carrying a heavy box. Everyone has to realize it in their own time, or save some effort by listening to people who've been helped with their box-carrying.
Exactly. A lot of people are stuck in the "there's nothing wrong with me" mindset. They'll say things like "I'm not perfect" because that's what's been taught as the right thing to do, but they wouldn't be able to admit to themselves their own shortcomings. I know I struggled with that for years.
At the end of the day, we're all screwed up in one way or another. It doesn't make you less of a person, it makes you human.
Unfortunately wether you know you're carrying the box you picked up or not, you still are still held responsible for it because you did pick it up.
Except I didn't want my box. According to Christianity, I inherited it from some chick who was uncomfortable with her body image and wanted to stuff the box full of apples or whatever. Maybe that's why it's heavy. Either way, I didn't ask for or agree to the box. It was thrust upon me.
Original sin is a bitch, but if you're protestant you can take solace in the fact that you can ignore that box for your entire life as long as you believe somebody is coming to help you eventually, and you'll be right!
but if you're protestant you can take solace in the fact that you can ignore that box for your entire life as long as you believe somebody is coming to help you eventually, and you'll be right!
Unless they've ever read the book of James. Faith without works is dead, bruh. Plus, Jesus said stuff like "If you love me, follow my commands," etc.
Yes, near-death conversions can happen (similar to the repentant thief on the cross), but think about it ... I can't be the ultimate judge of someone's inner life, but my gut says that someone actually planning for a deathbed conversion just might be missing the point.
I don't think anyone actually believes you can scam an omniscient being. If you're an atheist and you die and it turns out all of the Christianity stuff was true, you're not going to think "Welp, time to pull the wool over the eyes of this all-powerful being that knows my thoughts before I think them."
Pretty much every Abrahamic is confusing, anyway. So many interpretations and conflicting passages, navigating it as a believer kind of requires creativity in interpretation and what you say is metaphorical and literal. Not criticizing or being anti-religion at all here, just in case it comes across that way.
Yeah, it was pretty sarcastic, but maybe I'm just burnt out on people insisting they have to make up for the fictional misdeeds of our mythical ancestors or risk divine punishment instead of thinking "Wow, what a load of shit" and bring able to come up with their own morality and choices based on things like common decency and reason and logic.
That's a slew of verses taken out of the context of a broader passage and the cultural differences of the time. You can make the Bible say anything you want if you're selective enough. Just like some radical christians are called out for this behavior, non believers should too.
I don't disagree, but mass murdering your own creation because they aren't acting appropriately to your tastes is pretty hard to swallow under any context.
Murder is killing the innocent. If you truly think that there's someone who understands right from wrong who has never done the wrong thing then I'd love to meet them. You also have to remember that anyone who is innocent would be taken from a corrupt and painful world and put into an everlasting ecstasy.
Nobody likes to think themselves as bad. I'm sure Hitler, Osama, Pol Pot, Stalin, etc all thought that they were doing the right thing. They probably rationalized that the few bad things they were doing were outweighed by the "greater good." But even by our messed up standards we know that they were responsible for some truly horrific acts.
In the same way, not one of us is a purely good person. Not you, not me, not our parents, grandparents, favorite celebrity, no one. We may do good things, but so do murderers, and thieves. And the only way to think otherwise is to adopt a distorted worldview where dong the wrong thing isn't really that bad.
Just because a toddler doesn't like being put in time out when they hit their sister doesn't mean that the parent is evil or doing the wrong thing. You're not going to like everything God does. Because you're human and we're all incredibly immature and inexperienced compared to him. That doesn't mean that what he does is wrong.
No, murder is unlawful premeditated killing. Innocence or guilt is not a factor. You're missing the main point which is the classic logical problem of evil. In your make believe reality God made us what we are while being benevolent, omnipotent, omniscient. It simply doesn't add up. So either God is an asshole, God doesn't exist, or logic doesn't exist. Either way it makes God irrelevant to me, so I'll continue to be good for goodness sake, which holds much more meaning to me than worshiping a psychopath or a sadist or an egomaniac.
Except God didn't make us the way we are. And this was never a discussion on the relevancy of God in your life. If it was then I'd be trying to minister to you. Also, the link you provided offers two reasonable explanations immediately after mentioning that the argument for "why is their evil" was brought up.
This was a discussion on the morality of God. And with all due respect, it does to seem like you have a strong background in the subject. I'm not saying that because you disagree with me, because I've met many people that disagree with me with much more knowledge on the subject than I. I say that because it does not seem like you've read the texts with the intent of understanding them.
Wait, you don't think God made us the way we are? But that's totally contrary to the scripture of god making us in his own image. God can't be all powerful and all knowing and not take responsibility for making us exactly what we are. He either made us exactly what we are while knowing full well what we are/what we'd become, or he isn't actually all knowing, so you choose.
Yes, there are counter arguments listed, but that doesn't mean they actually hold up to criticism. So God alllows evil to protect us from a greater evil? Where did either or these levels of evil come from if not him? Why can't he just make either level of evil not exist? How can he allow this evil and still be all powerful and benevolent?
Free will - same thing. He allows people to suffer to give them free will somehow he controls hims self from knowing what's going to happen, or lets it happen anyway? So people suffer for what? His entertainment? It's ludicrous.
You're certainly right, I'm no theologian nor biblical scholar and don't espouse to be. I also don't understand all the finer details of the Lord of the Rings mythology or any other popular fiction, but I can still see some glaring plot holes from a mile away.
Please understand, I mean no personal disrespect to you or anyone else. I just don't think that religion get's a bye from critical thinking or discussion.
I don't take offense to any of this and absolutely agree that it needs to be analyzed.
And he didn't make us as sinners. He did make us with knowledge that we'd become sinners but that was still 100% our own choice. There is a difference between him knowing the future and him directly controlling it. If there wasn't then we wouldn't really have free will.
And if he made us incapable of making a bad choice, the love we would have for him wouldn't be genuine. Our happiness wouldn't be genuine. We'd be like computer programs that just go through a specific sequence every day.
Think about it like this. You're a parent with a young child who is (understandably) horrible with money. And they've been wanting a new toy that costs $20 so you say that they can get it by saving their $10 weekly allowance. Now you know that they are just going to spend that $10 on ice cream and candy at school, but you still give them the opportunity to make the choice for themselves. You could've even just not given them the money for two weeks and explain why, but you let them take responsibility for their own actions. After a week or two of having no toy the kid should start to figure out that they have to save their money to get what they want.
In the same way, God allows us to sin. He made us perfect, and gave us a set of rules that are very simple (though hard). He could've just made us incapable of doing wrong, but he wants us to live and grow to make decisions for ourselves. And that includes making the wrong ones that might affect other people as well.
It's almost like free speech. We have the right to say whatever we want, but it's foolish to think that there won't be any repercussions for what we say. And the alternative strategy is if the government just used mind control to keep us from every saying anything bad (but that would be horribly immoral... and impossible). In the same way, God lets us do whatever we want because it'd be horribly immoral for him to just control us. But it's ludicrous to think that we can do whatever we want without living with the consequences.
Yes, he allows people to suffer. But it's the peoples fault. He doesn't cause it or enjoy it.
I fully understand the concept of free will you're describing, but you're leaving out so much and giving this version of God such an easy pass.
He made us perfect, and gave us a set of rules that are very simple (though hard). He could've just made us incapable of doing wrong, but he wants us to live and grow to make decisions for ourselves.
Except in the garden of Eden we hadn't yet eaten the fruit, so had no knowledge yet of good and evil. So he gave us a rule, but we had no capacity to understand the rule or any consequences of it.
Yes, he allows people to suffer. But it's the peoples fault. He doesn't cause it or enjoy it.
What about all the people suffering through absolutely no fault of their own? Children born into it, etc... That isn't immoral for an all powerful God?
You say this is all to basically teach us a lesson to be good and love him, but what a sick abusive relationship. How about just making a world where we have free will but reduce the consequences a bit. I mean what lesson are we learning from birth defects, plague, hurricanes, etc...
The things that are 'wrong' or are 'sin' are only wrong in the context of the world that God made. Not only that, the rules continue to change. Do you believe you're wronging God when you eat pork, wear two types of cloth, or gather firewood on Sundays? Why is that ok now? Was God wrong? Did he change his mind? Is the bible wrong, or maybe not meant to be taking literally? If it's not 100% correct, than how do you decide what parts are correct or literal and which aren't?
People can't be happy or love without evil existing or consequences? I love my wife to no end even though she hasn't taught me any sick lessons by making me suffer. In fact, doesn't Jesus teach over and over about forgiveness, turning the other cheek, not seeking vengeance, etc...
There is a difference between vengeance and punishment. And we are responsible for those children being born into horrible situations. "The people" is humanity. It's a consequence of our actions. No, it's not fair that we have done that to innocents, and it makes us so much worse for it.
Yes, wrong and sin is in the context of the world God made. If he didn't make it then all of those rules would be completely meaningless. Then you only have to be good for the sake of being good.
And as far as the rules changing, that's still up for debate. But how I understand it, Jesus fulfilled the law and someone who is saved (not just someone who says that they're a christian) isn't bound to it because it's already been covered by Jesus. Almost like a perpetual pardon. But someone who is truly saved will also be in the mindset where they don't want to sin and will feel guilt for doing sinful things. 1 Corinthians 10:23 comes to mind.
So a saved person will want to do the right thing and to follow Jesus' teachings and do whatever they can to be a "good christian." Like how a good, liked student could get away with more in class if they wanted to but wouldn't take advantage of that.
But you've experienced evil and pain. And you love your wife more because of it. If you grew up in a perfect world and never even had a bad thought then you'd be good to people and wouldn't feel bad, but it wouldn't be as real when you compare it to someone who struggles with trouble throughout their day but knows that they have that one person that they can come to and rely on. An escape.
Just look at water for example. In america, we bathe in it, spray it on our cars, swim in it, drink half of it and throw the plastic away. We take it for granted. But give a single bottle of water to a man dying of thirst and it would be the best bottle he has ever had. And he would have an appreciation for fluids long after being rescued. We need it because we need perspective.
You can't truly know what good is without bad. You can't know any emotion without having a contrast.
Uhh.... I didn't choose, Adam and Eve did, and now I'm born with it. Except God made them, and the concept of sin, and the ability to sin, and us imperfect, but we take the blame.
You have a SO and you just fucked up, you made mistake in your eyes. Are they not going to be mad at you. This is what sin is.
Now lets say you never own up to your own mistakes and you are just kind of oblivious to what is happening in your relationship until one day your SO just leaves. You could say it is your SO's fault for leaving, but you were the one who made the mistakes, never owned up to them, and never apologized.
In my church I was taught that we were created by God as companions. He had angels, but they were created to do God's will (Don't ask me on Lucifer because I cannot think of a explanation atm). They were not companions. So God created Humans in his image and also gave them free will.
Now my explanation for why were are born into sin is because we are born with the Apple of Good and Evil within our blood. Also the promise that life will be harsh and stuff, but ya.
^ that explanation could also be why it is at least said within my church that mentally challenge people kind of get a "free pass" into Heaven because of the fact that they generally don't have the knowledge of good and evil.
Its even more complicated, god made the best representatives of people (without boxes to move), told them not to eat his lunch while he moved some boxes, we ate his lunch, then told us to move our own damn boxes.
Then we were like wtf you're way stronger than us so how are we supposed to do this, and he was like ugh fine let me call my son in. Then we killed his son cause he looked wimpy but he was like Bruce Lee, and had an aura of power which he gave to all of us.
Now we use Bruce Lee-level aura powers to help us move boxes while we could have just chilled on the couch playing Pokemon Moon and tending to God's garden/weed stash.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:13:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
I didn't complain about it. I just don't think God exists. We create our own boxes or they just appear randomly and we have to all help each other deal with them. The fact that we do that so often for one another is much more beautiful to me believing we do it of our own accord, not just because we're told to by a creator.
mugdays · -1 points · Posted at 22:46:22 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well he never sinned
I am baffled how this became a belief, when Jesus sins many times in the Gospels.
The concept of salvation for Judaism at that time and before was general, collective and national so you are correct. The Messiah wasn't expected to come save any particular person, but rather the whole of Israel. It was only after Jesus that salvation (through Christianity) morphed into a personal expectation/experience.
spade-s · 1 points · Posted at 00:18:53 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't think it's hypocritical since he didn't know, but I think it's just does show an interesting cultural gap. We see naming your kid after someone really amazing as pretentious, but having lived in South America they do it out of respect.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 04:17:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Kinda leaves big shoes to fill in a name though...
Idk if anyone has already commented this but Spanish-speaking Latinos refer to Jesus as Jesucristo, therefore plain Jesus isn't really ambiguous. Source: Sophomore Spanish teacher.
marty82 · 5 points · Posted at 23:58:08 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
we use both "jesus" and "jesucristo"
RedS5 · 1 points · Posted at 00:42:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I like his quotes and some of his stories, but I tried to read a few of his books and the wording/pacing gets tiresome. I feel like rather than regretting having not read him 20 years ago, I regretted not being born around the time when his books gained notoriety. Now they are more of a basis for storytelling that has evolved past that point (just my opinion).
So does CS Lewis but he does it as if he has really bad adhd and it makes his stuff unreadable for me.
Ainrana · 3 points · Posted at 22:31:23 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Four kids went to live out in the English countryside during World War II. Then they played hide-and-seek. The youngest one, Lucy, went in the wardrobe because she liked touching the fuzzy feeling of fur coats. However, it was a magic wardrobe, and it took her to a magical land where it always snowed!
Basically the first paragraph of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.
I've never heard it described that way, but that's a very apt description.
thedrew · 4 points · Posted at 21:15:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did so. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
I like "Arguing with a Christian is like playing chess with a pigeon. It doesn't matter how good the moves are that you're making the pigeon will still knock all the pieces over, shit on the board, puff it's chest out and strut around like it won"
jfreez · 8 points · Posted at 21:50:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
bruh you gotta cite that. Sounds like a Proverb. People want to know its origin
[deleted] · 11 points · Posted at 21:57:09 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] · 7 points · Posted at 22:11:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Proverbs 26:4-5
A quick explanation: "In short, in negligible issues we should just ignore fools, but in issues that matter, they must be dealt with so that credence will not be given to what they say."
It's almost like real life.
[deleted] · 6 points · Posted at 22:08:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's almost like an anthology written over thousands of years, which is comprised of poetry, letters, law books and historical accounts, written by dozens of authors would have similar sounding, seemingly contradictory statements depending on intent and context.
Nahhhhh, it's just silly idiots that made up a book about a sky fairy to take your money.
Touche haha, but no according to all translations I can find you have it wrong but fair enough if that's your version, it doesn't flow very well though. It's like saying:
Do not eat your pudding before your main, or you will fill yourself up on sugar. Eat your pudding before your main, or you might not get chance to eat it.
There is no contrast between statements, it just reads like shit and makes no sense.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 03:10:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ah, well when I look for translations I mostly see 'answer a fool according to his folly' in the first line and then 'answer a fool as his folly deserves' in the second but there are lots of translations in fairness. I think there's an important discrepancy though since I interpret the line to mean in that case, "Don't sink to a fool's level, but correct them of their ways lest they think themselves wise." which makes a lot more sense to me and I think is how it was originally meant to read. If it reads as you say then imo it should read:
"Answer a fool according to his foolishness, and you yourself will be just like him. Do not answer a fool according to his foolishness, and he will be wise in his own eyes."
The sentences paired together without contrast just reads terribly to me, maybe it just doesn't translate well. I do like the 'damned if you do; damned if you don't' version too but only in my version, maybe I should interpret and translate the whole thing haha ^ ^
Ennion · 6 points · Posted at 19:34:08 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ennion · 4 points · Posted at 21:33:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Moses Malone? Edwin Moses, Moses Storm, Moses Stone, Moses Brown, Moses Mosop and so on.
However, I was referencing the figure and not the name in comparison to a Mohamed.
Right? "How come people from there do this?" isn't really the most racist thing I've ever heard. Why not just tell him. I don't see why it would destroy him to know.
Yes, why? I'm telling there is no irony in your cousin's statements - the name "Josh" is so far removed from "Jesus" that nobody even links the two - like Nathan and John. In fact, the names are so far removed, that this TIL post has hit the front page because nobody even knows that the names were once the same.
Muslims name their children Muhammad. The Muslims took over Spain for a bit and the practice of naming kids after their prophet was passed on. Then Spain colonized much of the Americas.
Odd how people have issues with naming a child 'Jesus'. BTW, in Spanish you typical refer to THE Jesus as 'jesucristo'.
My mom and I had this exact conversation a few years ago. She talked about how strange it was for Hispanics do that. I kind of paused and said "You realize you did exactly the same thing, right?" I had to walk her through it and she's has never criticized Hispanics for that again.
Dewut · 1 points · Posted at 01:51:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I mean while there's no denying your cousin sounds like ignorant piece of shit, his issue (or at least what he claims is his issue but is actually just racism) is with deliberately naming children after Christ. Seeing as neither his parents, nor him, were aware of the proper translation it most likely wouldn't shake his beliefs for a second. Assuming he'd even believe you, in my experience people like that have a hard enough time grasping that Jesus wasn't white, let alone went by a different name.
pgm123 · 1 points · Posted at 20:52:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
He loves to talk about how weird it is that "the Hispanics" feel so comfortable naming their kids Jesus, while "white people know it's disrespectful to our lord and savior".
He does realize that there are white Hispanic people, right? (in Spain, e.g.)
You mean spanish people? On a serious note I'm too ignorant to understand the areas or countries "hispanic" refers to. I do believe it's focus is regional, cultural, and language tied. eg. Spanish speaking countries in the Americas.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 22:16:54 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Hispanic" just means you come from a Spanish-speaking country. Spanish people are from Spain. "Latino" denotes being from Latin America and "Chicano" is specifically Mexican.
Glad you didnt also tell him of the large number historians of the time, where only the word Christ (the anointed) was mentioned ever in a strange context that probably indicates that the story of Jesus is just a more elaborate fairytale used to promote obedience to government.
I believe that it because the Old Testament was translated from Hebrew while the New Testament was translated from Greek or Latin. I think the King James Version does have a few other names that are different between the two testaments.
[deleted] · 7 points · Posted at 21:58:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The old testament, aka the Torah, was written in mostly Hebrew with some Aramaic.
The New Testament was written mostly Greek, with some Aramaic and Hebrew.
The Old Testament, aka the TaNaKh, contains the Torah (the "Law" or "teaching", aka the Pentateuch or 1st 5 books, all in Hebrew), the Nevi'im (the "Prophets", aka the major and minor prophets and many of what Christians group as the historical books, all in Hebrew), and the Ketuvim (the "Writings", the rest of the historical books plus the poetry, mostly in Hebrew except for major Aramaic sections in Daniel and Ezra). Modern Bibles are translated from a couple prominent Hebrew scrolls, but the New Testament writers made apparent heavy use of the Greek translation known as the Septuagint.
losian · 1 points · Posted at 03:21:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I was under the impression, like the person you replied to, that a fair portion of the "roots" of Christianity were not at all "translated" but "written" in Greek, i.e. authored originally.. which I know doesn't jive with the myth and other such nonsense, but it makes quite a bit of sense given that Christianity was a popular cult in some Greek areas, and nothing sells a new religion like doom and a martyr, but hey.
trolleg · 1 points · Posted at 23:04:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The Torah is actually just the first five books of the old testament.
The KJV translates the name of the prophet Elijah as "Elijah" in the old Testament, and "Elias" in the New Testament for precisely this reason. The Old Testament, or Tenakh as the Jews call it was written primarily in Hebrew and Aramaic, whereas the New Testament was written in Greek.
My guess would be that the Latin spelling, Iesus, spread quickly in the West and became a household name. When translation were later done, it was kept as is and the other Yeshuas were tranlated more accurately.
Basically Joshua isnt a perfect translation either. Yeshu or Yeshua would fit better. Joshua and Jesus are basically alternate spellings of the same name similar to Jeffrey v Geoffrey. The translations come out differently pertly due to that, partly to intentionally differentiate the figures and partly because all the books were not written at the same time or by the same people so if one person starts translating it as Jesus and everyone follows him its easier to keep that then tell a bunch of peasants that the guy they've been praying to has a different name.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 21:59:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
There are many different variations of the name Joshua (Yeshua). It's like how if you meet someone nicknamed Will, their first name could actually William, Willard, Wilhelm, Willis, etc. Jesus is essentially a translation of a specific variation of Yeshua.
Because they didn't call him Yehoshua, they called him Yeshua. The name may have come from Yehoshua, but it isn't the same name.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:37:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The rule of thumb was to translate Jesus for the New Testament and Joshua for the old. But this rarely worked out. The oldest translations of the king James are actually rather inconsistent and often times the translated accidentally translates one to the other.
Okay I think I get what you're saying. I think OP was referring to how the servants are acting all knowledgeable and making the king look stupid or unimportant. Both are very relatedable, I just think of the Holy grail first.
Correct. In fact, it's likely that Jesus was at least trilingual, as Jews generally were at that time (the languages being Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek).
The major Greek-influenced cities of the area during Jesus's time were called the Decapolis. Capernaum, found of he shores of the Sea of Galilee was Jesus's home.
Hebrew is a very old language. By Jesus' time it was not an every day language and was only used in liturgy. Aramaic was the more contemporary language, but it was similar to Hebrew and mutually intelligible.
Aramaic is like contemporary American English and Hebrew is like Shakespearean English.
Were there Jews outside of the middle east 2000 years ago?
[deleted] · 8 points · Posted at 00:50:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Yep. They established colonies after the double defeat of Babylon and Assyria in the 500s bc. The diaspora of Jews settled everywhere from India to France. I wish I had a proper map, but sadly I don't know of one. Best I could find from a google search is this. the Jews in Ethiopia and India are two I've studied a bit. They have a curious history. 2,500 years in isolation, but still praying and reading the same as other Jews.
One of the reasons Christianity was so fast to spread across the world was because the first Jewish Christians would go to the temples at these Jewish colonies before converting Gentiles. The Jews were not so evangelical, so within a few years the Jewish colonies were overpopulate by gentile converts who lived in these Jewish settlements and worshipped in the temples. Over time they separated when their theology became so obviously incompatible. There are a few amusing anecdotes of history of the awkwardness this created. For example, when the Portuguese sent missionaries to India to convert the population, they were greeted by a long lost branch of Christians who had grown out of one of these Jewish colonies in India. They were called st Thomas Christians. They were cut off off from the west for hundreds of years after Rome collapsed and survived prolonged periods of isolation there. To this day there are Jews and Christians in India who can trace their heritage back over 2000 years. The Christians to the apostle Thomas who converted them (hence their name), and the Jews who have been there since the exile around 500 Bc, called Cochin Jews.
There's actually a text from there credited to Thomas that explores some of the conversations between Jews, Christians, and the local Hindu kings. Rather good read if you ever have he tim. [Here you go.](www.earlychristianwritings.com/actsthomas.html)
nomad80 · 1 points · Posted at 01:42:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You have no idea how valuable that link is to me. thank you
Hebrew names that start with Y or I or J, are actually verbs in future tense. They mean what the child will do when he grows up. For example Isaac means "will laugh", Joseph means "will multiply", Israel "will wrestle with God"
Yahushua might actually be closer than Yeshua even for Christ personally. There might have been many efforts made to try to cover up the Tetragrammaton.
nomad80 · 1 points · Posted at 01:48:57 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I find that fascinating, but in keeping with the gospels
Is ישוע really more correct than יהושע even for Christ Himself if Zechariah 6:11-13 is Messianic Prophecy? There might have been many efforts made to try to coverup יהוה.
You know what's interesting? I actually realized the cognate relationship between the Latin and hebrew words for salvation.
The name Yehoshua in hebrew is God saves, break this down to its individual components and you get Yeho, meaning God, and shua, meaning save.
Shua eventually evolved through the Latin Salutem, rooting into the Latin word salvus, meaning safe. Then Salvus evolves into French, sauver, and finally from French into English as Save. Hebrew is more influential than we think.
Well, not exactly, but it depends on whom you ask.
For starters, when translating Hebrew names to English, the Y sounding letter is replaced with a J, and not with a Y.
Jesus's actual Hebrew name Is Yeshu'ah, but most people refer to him nowadays as Yeshu (Originally it was meant as an insult that meant "May his name and memory be forgotten", but it lost its meaning a long time ago)
s_s · 1 points · Posted at 04:26:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
well, Not quite.
Jesus isn't exactly a Hebrew name. It's a Greek approximation of an Aramaic variant of the Hebrew name we in English call Joshua.
pgm123 · 2 points · Posted at 21:03:08 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes, but the Old Testament was written in Hebrew and the name Joshua is in the Old Testament. He was an advisor of Moses who God spoke to after Moses died. There's an entire book of the Old Testament named for him.
pgm123 · 3 points · Posted at 21:37:01 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes. What's being questioned? The Hebrew version of Joshua, translated into Aramaic and then translated into Greek is Iesous. Translated into Latin, that's Iesus. Translated into English from Latin, it's Jesus.
The book lamb: the gospel according to biff Christ childhood pal taught me it should be Joshua lol amazing book. Much better then any other books on Jesus
I've never quite understood names being translated/translatable. Somehow they don't seem like words to me in the same way...
Anrza · 35 points · Posted at 22:16:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
The title is poorly worded. Transliterated, i.e. converting it to our script, would be a better word. Since pretty much no one can read all scripts, transliteration is necessary.
It's not actually translated, if it were it would be something like "God saves".
It was however kind of adapted for Ancient Greek and Latin. Ancient Greek has no letter or letter combination representing the sh-sound and neither has Latin, so the 'sh' goes away. Then the ending is adapted to better suit the inflectional system of the respective languages.
Well even transliterated between languages that share scripts. Like Mary in the U.S. being Maria in Chile, Johnny being Gianni. Or even saying these are the "same name." I just don't understand what that means at some level.
We're still all using the same roman alphabet (maybe an ñ here or there). I've always associated names so much with identity that it seems weird to localize them.
What if you have a really good point and names should be transliterated instead of translated. There might be rebel angels who don't want people to know some names.
What if you have a great point and names should be transliterated instead of translated. There might be demons who don't want people to know some names.
100 percent agree. always bothered me that people translate names.
kvrle · 1 points · Posted at 00:12:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
They all meant something originally, that's why they're translatable.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:34:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Germans and English had a whole period in the past 300 years where they invented the letter J. At first it had a Y sound. Then they decided he J we know now. During his time, translators were rather confuse.d prior to this mess, the name was Ieshu and variations there of. Yeshu and Ieshu are basically the same thing with a slight accent.
Essentially it was more or less the same thing, and then a new letter was invented.
s_s · 1 points · Posted at 04:29:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Eugene is an English name.
In Spanish they pronounce it ay-You-HAIN-E-O and spell it Eugenio
If the name of the book's main character is so badly butchered from so many translations, imagine what's happened to all the other words, let alone the subtle nuances that grammar lends to written language. And people fight wars for this shit. What a joke.
Muslims are very careful to differentiate between the Quran and translationd of the Quran for this very reason. And ultimately they always recommend learning Arabic as the best way to study and understand the Quran. Translations are more like a synopsis of a movie than the screenplay. There's so much nuance in sentence structure and syntax of the language, as well as etymology and word patterns and roots.
bukithd · 2 points · Posted at 23:15:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It was a great philosophical movie. Dialogue was well written and the story made you wonder a lot.
FriTzu · 1 points · Posted at 03:14:30 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The dialogue was so good, I was captivated even though almost nothing was happening in the movie, it's literally just a group of people talking in a room.
kake241 · 1 points · Posted at 15:04:54 on February 5, 2017 · (Permalink)
It just keeps continuing
[deleted] · 4 points · Posted at 04:45:07 on December 13, 2016 · (Permalink)
Gorillas in the mist plot twist ninjas clenching fists lynching kids bangin the needle with a dirty Syringe snitchin bitches sleeping with Fish lethal needles leave people in fetal fearful of a peaceful sequel. that's reincarnation
They talk about this in an awesome and hilarious work of fiction by Christopher Moore called Lamb: the Gospel According to Biff, Jesus's Childhood Pal . It is a, in some respects historically accurate, and in others just made up hilariousness, but Jesus just goes by the name Josh. It's a great read and highly suggest it. He has many other comedy/fantasy books as well and they are all pretty good!
[deleted] · 6 points · Posted at 22:42:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I recommend everyone in this thread read Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal by Christopher Moore.
[deleted] · 31 points · Posted at 19:42:23 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
That would be Aramaic, a language similiar to hebrew(think spanish and portugese) that was the everyday language in northern israel, where jesus was supposed.to have grown up, at the time.
The Aramaic version of the name became popular to use in American evangelical circles due to the use of the language in Mel Gibson's film "the Passion of the christ."
Hebrew it is Yehoshua.
There are still prayers in the jewish siddur(prayer book) that are in aramaic,.such as the kaddish. The part of the hammy called the gemera is in aramaic, as several Books of the Nevi'im(the prophets) like the book of Daniel.
after the babylonian exile hebrew became like latin a religious language, the people spoke western aramaic a language similiar to hebrew and also related to what the babylonians had spoken.
Source- I am jewish and interested in philogy(the study of how languages develop)
Using other names in the bible there is a lot of YAHU/AH/YAH in names. So YEHOshua wouldn't really work. Use PALEO-HEBREW, not modern Hebrew w/dialects.
Abram- AbrAHam- “The Father YAHUAH of a Multitude”
Isaac- YAHsaac- “YAHUAH Laughs”
Jacob- YAHcob- “YAHUAH Succeeds”
Judah- YAHUdah- YAHUAH’s Worshipers and Followers
Perez- means “A Break”
Zerah- ZerAHk- “The Rising of Light is YAHUAH”
Hezron- Chetsron
Ram- RaAHm “YAHUAH Is the Highest”
Amminadab- AmiynAHdaab- “People of YAHUAH are at Liberty”
Nashon- NAHchshon- “YAHUAH’s Enchanter”
Salmon- SalmAH- “Clothing Provided by YAHUAH”
Boaz- Bo’az
Rahab- RAHchaab- “YAHUAH is Proud”
Obed- Owbed- Serving
Ruth- RUth- “YAHUAH’s Friend”
Jesse- YeshAHy “The Existence of YAHUAH Continues”
David- Da'ud- “Love YAHUAH”
Solomon- ShalomAH “The Peace of YAHUAH”
Uriah- UwriYAHU- “The Flame of YAHUAH”
Rehoboam- RachAHbam “The people of YAHUAH has Enlarged”
Abijah- AbiYAHU “Fathered by YAHUAH”
Asa- AHca “YAHUAH Heals”
Jehoshaphat- YAHUshaphat- “YAHUAH is the Judge”
Joram- YAHUram “YAHUAH Raised”
Uzziah- UzziYAHU- “Strength of YAHUAH”
Jotham- YAHtaam- “YAHUAH is Perfect”
Ahaz- “AHchaaz- YAHUAH is the Possesor”
Hezekiah- YAHchizqiYAHU- “Strengthened of YAHUAH”
Mannasseh- ManAHshah- “YAHUAH Made Me Forget”
Amon- AHmon “YAHUAH Trains”
Josiah- YoshiYAHU- “Founded of YAHUAH”
Jeconiah- YakonYAHU- “YAHUAH Will Establish”
Shealtiel- ShaltiYAHel- “I have asked YAHUAH Eloah”
That is incorrect. Names with references to God in them will have either YAHU (sometimes shortened to YAH, only at the end of the name) YEHO (sometimes shortened to YO) or EL. Any name that has one of those (well, not Joseph) is a reference to God. Most of the ones you mentioned do not.
it can easily get confusing though... when it seems like both something like YEHOWA and YAHWEH can make sense. Hallelu-yah, Yo-shua... In the languages I've learnt so far, they don't use techniques like that, so I find that it can seem a bit unintuitive.
[deleted] · 4 points · Posted at 22:13:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Isaac is not pronounced YAHsaac in hebrew, it's prounced ITZHAK, like the prime minister Yitzhak Rabin
That can't be true, because use of g-d's name is strictly forbidden in Judaism. To the point that in the sequence of Hebrew numbers the number 15 is made an exception, because two letters Yud and Hei which would have comprised it, resemble G-d's name too much.
Do you really think Yehoshua ben Nun was a more accurate transliteration than Yahushua ben Nun with him walking earth? What's trustworthy about vowel pointings if they aren't original to Ibrit? There might have been many efforts made to try to cover up the Tetragrammaton.
Yahushua might actually be closer than Yeshua even for Christ personally. There might have been many efforts made to try to cover up the Tetragrammaton.
Ya never know.. the way Dr. Falken was obsessed with evolution and man's destruction of himself.. it would make sense to name an AI he created that could wipe out most of humanity in one fell swoop after the "concierge" of the Rapture who is basically doing something similar. If I was writing a screenplay in the 80s during the cold war like War Games, I might slip that in there.
You try to write a name from one language in another. Unfortunately not all languages share the same set of letters, so you approximate. Repeat with different languages, and you end up with a very distorted name.
Most biblical names are warped thus.
nomad80 · 1 points · Posted at 02:02:02 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because they have different phonemes. That is to say that not all languages posses the same sounds (ie consonants and vowels). For instance, if you were to look at how a Vietnamese man spells his name in English (and how English speakers would pronounce his name), it would be very different from how he spells and pronounces it in his native tongue. The same applies to those archaic languages. The try to use the best sounds they can to imitate their names, but they're going to be off by a bit.
Kohowch · 4 points · Posted at 04:19:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Just in time for people to learn Yeshua was born closer to Easter than Christmas.
[deleted] · 10 points · Posted at 20:25:22 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Right. Except J is a Y in Hebrew and then there would be a declension of sorts on the end. Hebrew is Yehoshua. Same way Jehovah shouldn't have a J... Well okay actually Jehovah is the english transliteration of a Hebrew tetragram and it should be Yahweh.
My name is the gaelic word for an English word, for a latin word, for a Greek word, for a Hebrew word. Can I win?
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 21:57:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ian. I think technically it's Scottish Gaelic and not regular Gaelic which I think is the Irish Gaelic, but since I'm American it's whatever!
Nadamir · 2 points · Posted at 00:20:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No such language as Irish Gaelic. It's just Irish. And most of the time 'Gaelic' refers to Scottish Gaelic.
Ian is Scottish Gaelic and related to 'John,' but comes from the Irish form.
In Irish it would be Seán (originally Seaghán), although another form of the name is Eoin (pronounced like Owen). Eoin is the form used for John in Irish translations of the Bible.
How Seaghán became Ian is quite fun. When addressing someone in Irish or Scottish Gaelic, you have to lenite the first letter, which is nowadays written by adding an 'h'.
Sometimes lenition changes the sound of the letter. Máire (Mary, but not the Virgin Mary, whose name is Muire), pronounced sort of like Maura becomes Mháire, which is pronounced closer to Vaura. Sometimes, lenition causes the letter to be silent, such as for 's' in Scottish Gaelic. So Seàn (in Scottish Gaelic) becomes Sheain which is pronounced 'Ee-in'.
Also fun fact: the 'fada' changes direction between Scottish Gaelic and Irish. ' á ' with the fada sloping up is Irish, while ' à ' with the fada sloping down is Scottish Gaelic. The Irish (or at least the ones near me) joking call the Scottish fada, the Protestant fada.
as an Irish descendant aren't the Irish and Scots basically the same group of people? i.e. Celtic?
you might be mi familia...
Nadamir · 1 points · Posted at 03:33:36 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hi cousin! There's not an Irish family around that doesn't have relatives in at least three countries.
Celtic describes a larger group of people (the Celts) that covered most of Europe at one point. The Gaels (Gaelic people) are a subset that contains the Irish, the Scottish and the Manx.
And yes, there is a lot of intermingling between the Irish and the Scottish. Especially in the city of Glasgow in Scotland and the province of Ulster, which is made up of all six counties of Northern Ireland, plus three more, where they even have a dialect called Ulster Scots.
But just like you don't get Americans and Canadians or Ozzies and Kiwis confused, for the love of God, never call an Irishman a Scotsman or vice versa.
Ninja edit: Don't RES expand the Celts link, you'll scroll forever...
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 18:49:47 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Came here to boast and learned a lot more than I expected, thanks!
Nadamir · 1 points · Posted at 01:08:09 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
I've too many younger siblings and used to be a teacher. Pedagogue is sort of my default mode. Glad TYL something.
The name Ian might have a long history, but the name Matthew has been translated into virtually every language. I've yet to find a language that doesn't have it.
Do you really think Yehoshua was a more accurate transliteration than Yahushua? What's trustworthy about vowel pointings if they aren't original to Ibrit? There might have been many efforts made to try to cover up the Tetragrammaton. And is there really any transliteration of that which is better than Yahuah?
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 13:05:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yehoshua
Jesus' name in Hebrew is identical to the name of all the other Joshuas in the OT. Yehoshua is how these names are translated, I don't see the need to give Him a different spelling of the name.
All I know of the Yahuah view is that it's based solely on the fact that there is only a daleth difference between that spelling and the one for Judah. The argument is made that the names ought to be similar and so it is pronounced how Judah is pronounced, minus a daleth.
I can't really speak to either account from a linguistic point of view. My languages are Greek and Latin. I took Hebrew for two semesters and then dropped out because I wasn't learning anything and was just getting by on the good graces of the prof. and my ability to memorize the entire study guide.
I understood the correct name would have been Yeshua Ha'Mashiach, or Deliverer, the anointed one. There were actually many Ha'Mashiach (Saul, David, for example, were anointed as kings)
In Greek manuscripts of the New Testament, "Yeshua" was translated as
"Iesous" which was probably pronounced "yay-soos" in ancient Greek. The word "Jesus" then came from an English translation of Greek manuscripts of the New Testament, or Iesu in Latin if the Textus Receptus was used.
The word for "Mashiach" in Greek is "Christos" meaning anointed. This
word is usually brought into English as "Christ".
So, just FYI, Jesus Christ is NOT a name. People back then didn't have last names generally. Yeshua would have been his name, a good Hebrew name for a boy. Pretty common too.
What happens is that you try to write a name from one language in another. Unfortunately not all languages share the same set of letters, so you approximate. Repeat with different languages, and you end up with a very distorted name.
If you are interested in Jesus and the ancient Hebrew pictographs check out this video. It's a little bit boring at the outset, but it gets good. It's an hour and a half long. https://youtu.be/-U-stVyGakQ
Edit:pictograhs start being discussed at 9:30 time stamp
Thanks to the Greeks, many of the most popular names from the Old Testament are pronounced wrong in English. Mostly, this was due to confusion about 'B' vs. 'V' (which are very similar characters in Aramaic and Hebrew), and i/j vs y.
So, 'Rebecca' (R-B-K-A) would be 'Rivka' (R-V-K-A)
'Abraham' --> 'Avraham'
'Isaac' --> 'Yitzak'
'Jacob' --> 'Yakov'
'David' --> 'Daoud' (another letter that is a consonant 'V' can also be read as a vowel 'ooh' sound)
I know between my binders and my stance on climate change. I think it's time i start living up to my other name
JEWCEY · 3 points · Posted at 23:03:24 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Your savior's name is a misnomer" is literally the most worthless information you can give a religious person. As a writer, and a Jew, I love the irony. My bad, Christians. Too soon?
No, Yeshua means "God Saves," while Christ is from Greek, meaning "Christos," or "Anointed One," which is the translation of Messiah. "God Saves, the Messiah."
Legally, he would have been known as Yeshua ben Yosef, or Joshua son of Joseph.
[deleted] · 20 points · Posted at 17:44:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
In "Jesus Christ", Christ is NOT the last name, it is a title or appointment. As in, "Jesus, the Christ". People have just become very sloppy with it over time.
[deleted] · 17 points · Posted at 18:57:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
pgm123 · 2 points · Posted at 21:01:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
As in, "Jesus, the Christ". People have just become very sloppy with it over time.
The opposite of Smokey Bear.
Anrza · 1 points · Posted at 22:08:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
People have just become very sloppy with it over time.
It's probably just because ancient Greek and Latin aren't big fans of articles (the).
[deleted] · 7 points · Posted at 19:44:20 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeshua is aramaic, Yehoshua is the correct hebrew, they are related languages, the yeshua name is well known because Mel gibson used Aramaic in the Passion of the Christ movie.
elev57 · 5 points · Posted at 20:39:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Aramaic was the spoken language of the region at the time. Hebrew was a liturgical language. He might have been named Yehoshua rather than Yeshua as people did at that time us biblical names as well, but speaking Aramaic is historically accurate.
[deleted] · 0 points · Posted at 20:44:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
See my other post above the one you responded to.
[deleted] · -1 points · Posted at 22:01:31 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
speaking Aramaic is historically accurate
Which is important when portraying events that may or may not have happened.
Do you really think Yehoshua was a more accurate transliteration than Yahushua? What's trustworthy about vowel pointings if they aren't original to Ibrit? There might have been many efforts made to try to cover up the Tetragrammaton.
HughGnu · 1 points · Posted at 23:39:25 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
There might have been many efforts made to try to cover up the Tetragrammaton
That doesn't sound right, but I don't know enough about Tetragrammatons to dispute it.
[deleted] · 5 points · Posted at 20:27:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
From Matthew quoting the Old Testament prophet Isaiah.
“But after he had considered these things, an angel of the Lord suddenly appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, don’t be afraid to take Mary as your wife, because what has been conceived in her is by the Holy Spirit. She will give birth to a son, and you are to name Him Jesus, because He will save His people from their sins.”
Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet: See, the virgin will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and they will name Him Immanuel, which is translated “God is with us.””
Matthew 1:20-23 HCSB
“Therefore, the Lord Himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive, have a son, and name him Immanuel.”
Isaiah 7:14 HCSB
In the Greek translation of the Jewish Torah that Christianity was founded on, "alma" was translated into virgin. It was a messed up translation.
The actual Hebrew was means young woman. It stuck so then the narrative of the virgin birth thing came from a typo.
[deleted] · 5 points · Posted at 21:06:36 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not exactly. Alma does mean young woman, but in the culture, especially with the Old Covenant law against premarital sex, a young woman of marriageable age was expected to be a virgin. Ancient Hebrew (as far as I'm aware) did not have a precise, "clinical" word for virgin like we do. Greek did however, and the Septuagint (the Greek OT you spoke of) translators used the precise Greek word for virgin in Isaiah. However they didn't just make that up, they pulled on rabbinic tradition that was already in existence that there would be a literal virgin birth.
"The word alma appears in the Jewish Scriptures seven times in the feminine and twice in the masculine. If even one reference refers to a woman who is clearly not a virgin, then Matthew’s rendition of Isaiah 7:14 becomes untenable.
One of the places where the uncommon Hebrew word almah appears in the Bible is in the Book of Proverbs.
The word “proverb” means “to be like,” thus Proverbs is a book of comparisons between common, concrete images and life’s most profound truths. Proverbs are simple, moral statements (or illustrations) that highlight and teach fundamental realities about life. In the following passage, King Solomon presents the following vivid analogy:
"There are three things which are too wonderful for me, for which I do not understand: 19the way of an eagle in the sky, the way of a serpent on a rock, the way of a ship in the middle of the sea, and the way of a man with a young woman [b’almah][/b’almah]. 20This is the way of an adulterous woman: she eats and wipes her mouth, and says, “I have done no wrong.” (Proverbs 30:18-20)
King Solomon declares that once a man has been sexually intimate with an almah, i.e. a young woman, no trace of sexual intercourse is visible, unlike a virgin who will leave behind a discharge of blood after her hymen is broken.
Therefore, in the following verse (Proverbs 30:20) King Solomon explains that once this adulterous woman “eats” (a metaphor for her fornication), she removes the trace of her sexual infidelity, “wipes her mouth, and says, ‘I have done no wrong.’” The word alma clearly does not mean a virgin.
In the Hebrew languagethere is no relationship between the words almah and virgin. On the contrary, it is usually a young woman who bears children. The word alma only conveys age/gender. Had Isaiah wished to speak about a virgin, he would have used the word betulah1 (בְּתוּלָה) not almah. The word betulah appears frequently in the Jewish Scriptures, and is the only word – in both biblical and modern Hebrew – that conveys sexual purity.
Moreover, as mentioned earlier, the masculine form of the noun עַלְמָה (alma) is עֶלֶם (elem), which means a “young man,” not a male virgin. This word appears twice in the Jewish Scriptures (I Samuel 17:56, 20:22). As expected, without exception, all Christian Bibles correctly translate עֶלֶם as a “young man,” “lad,” or “stripling,” never “virgin.” Why does theKing James Version of the Bible translate the masculine Hebrew noun לָעֶלֶם (la’elem) as “to the young man” in I Samuel 20:22, and yet the feminine form of the same Hebrew noun הָעַלְמָה as “a virgin” in Isaiah 7:14? The answer is Christian Bibles had no need to mistranslate I Samuel 20:22 because this verse was not misquoted in the New Testament."
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 21:46:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The word alma appears in the Jewish Scriptures seven times in the feminine and twice in the masculine. If even one reference refers to a woman who is clearly not a virgin, then Matthew’s rendition of Isaiah 7:14 becomes untenable.
No, you would actually have to prove the opposite. That NO reference can be interpreted as virgin. The whole argument isn't that the word itself means virgin, as in the precise term used to describe someone whose never had sex, but instead that the implication is that it can mean such a person. This is clearly the case in Gen 24:43, Ex 2:8 at least.
One of the places where the uncommon Hebrew word almah appears in the Bible is in the Book of Proverbs.
The word “proverb” means “to be like,” thus Proverbs is a book of comparisons between common, concrete images and life’s most profound truths. Proverbs are simple, moral statements (or illustrations) that highlight and teach fundamental realities about life. In the following passage, King Solomon presents the following vivid analogy:
"There are three things which are too wonderful for me, for which I do not understand: 19the way of an eagle in the sky, the way of a serpent on a rock, the way of a ship in the middle of the sea, and the way of a man with a young woman [b’almah][/b’almah]. 20This is the way of an adulterous woman: she eats and wipes her mouth, and says, “I have done no wrong.” (Proverbs 30:18-20)
King Solomon declares that once a man has been sexually intimate with an almah, i.e. a young woman, no trace of sexual intercourse is visible, unlike a virgin who will leave behind a discharge of blood after her hymen is broken.
Therefore, in the following verse (Proverbs 30:20) King Solomon explains that once this adulterous woman “eats” (a metaphor for her fornication), she removes the trace of her sexual infidelity, “wipes her mouth, and says, ‘I have done no wrong.’” The word alma clearly does not mean a virgin.
I disagree with your exegesis here (assuming you are Rabbi Singer). I do not believe that Proverbs 30:20 is connected to verses 18-19. As you said, the Proverbs are simple, moral statements which are often very disconnected from one another. Verses 18-19 are one proverb, while verse 20 is a separate, distinct proverb. Otherwise it wouldn't make any sense for Solomon to consider an adulterous woman covering up her affair as being "wonderful." verse 18 also restricts the proverb to 4 items or situations: the flying eagle, the sunning snake, a sailing ship, and a young couple in love. Verse 20, if connected, would introduce a 5th - the adulterous woman. Since verse 19 uses alma and verse 20 does not, this doesn't support your conclusion.
In the Hebrew languagethere is no relationship between the words almah and virgin. On the contrary, it is usually a young woman who bears children. The word alma only conveys age/gender. Had Isaiah wished to speak about a virgin, he would have used the word betulah1 (בְּתוּלָה) not almah. The word betulah appears frequently in the Jewish Scriptures, and is the only word – in both biblical and modern Hebrew – that conveys sexual purity.
There is no reason to limit Isaiah to betulah if he meant to convey virgin. Obviously alma can mean virgin as other texts show. Also Joel 1:8 indicates the betulah doesn't necessarily mean a virgin, since it there refers to a married woman. Technically it could be a woman who is married but yet to consummate but that's arguing from silence.
Moreover, as mentioned earlier, the masculine form of the noun עַלְמָה (alma) is עֶלֶם (elem), which means a “young man,” not a male virgin. This word appears twice in the Jewish Scriptures (I Samuel 17:56, 20:22). As expected, without exception, all Christian Bibles correctly translate עֶלֶם as a “young man,” “lad,” or “stripling,” never “virgin.” Why does theKing James Version of the Bible translate the masculine Hebrew noun לָעֶלֶם (la’elem) as “to the young man” in I Samuel 20:22, and yet the feminine form of the same Hebrew noun הָעַלְמָה as “a virgin” in Isaiah 7:14? The answer is Christian Bibles had no need to mistranslate I Samuel 20:22 because this verse was not misquoted in the New Testament.
Both verses, however, are talking about someone who is a "youth" or a "boy." Again someone highly unlikely to be sexually active, especially considering the law.
The translators concluded 100% that it meant virgin. In Judaism the idea that the Messiah would be born from a virgin is non-existent.
This idea that humans can be fathered by Gods is a Greek/Roman philosophy. Zeus fathered many children like that so it's logical that the Gospels trying to cater to Romans would utilize that language and philosophies that were understood by those people and the Pagan religions they had been practicing already.
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 22:12:59 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
The translators concluded 100% that it meant virgin.
Just as the translators of the Septuagint concluded that Isaiah's use of alma intended a virgin. I'm not actually opposed to translating it as young woman in Isaiah, but clearly the New Testament writers, and the Septuagint translators thought virgin was appropriate.
In Judaism the idea that the Messiah would be born from a virgin is non-existent.
Today, sure. There was a tradition before Jesus that was expecting a virgin born messiah. Unfortunately I don't have the source for that, just trying to remember off the top of my head. Sorry.
This idea that humans can be fathered by Gods is a Greek/Roman philosophy. Zeus fathered many children like that so it's logical that the Gospels trying to cater to Romans would utilize that language and philosophies that were understood by those people and the Pagan religions they had been practicing already.
I'm sorry, but to try and parallel the unique New Testament virgin birth, with Zeus' regularly seducing and raping women is just laughable. The NT writers did not try to cater to Romans. The earliest Christians were trying to covert Jews, so the last thing they would ever want to do is try to appeal to Gentiles. If you take a later date for the composition of the NT books, then the church is under persecution by the Romans during their writing, so again there is absolutely no reason for them to try and copy Roman religion. Further, there is significant anti-imperial, anti-paganism language throughout the New Testament. It simply doesn't make sense.
What doesn't make sense is that the Romans crucified him but the Jews were the ones who were blamed and turned into the scapegoats.
I'm just saying that it's obviously meant to cater to a Greek audience since it was written in Greek. So when translating they are going to use terms and language that resonate with Greek audiences.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 23:05:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
What doesn't make sense is that the Romans crucified him but the Jews were the ones who were blamed and turned into the scapegoats.
I'm not really sure what you're referring to, or how exactly it's relevant. If you mean in the New Testament, then the blame is pretty evenly spread around between the Romans and the Jews. Both were at fault. Of course, the references are to the Roman and Jewish authorities not the groups as a whole. If you mean latter on in the anti-semitism that developed in the middle Ages, that was and continues to be wrong.
I'm just saying that it's obviously meant to cater to a Greek audience since it was written in Greek. So when translating they are going to use terms and language that resonate with Greek audiences.
Not necessarily. We don't assume something written in English is intended to appeal to residents of England. Greek was the lingua franca of the empire and it makes sense that the NT was written in it so as to be read by the most amount of people. That doesn't mean that they copied Roman or Greek religion, and it certainly doesn't mean that the virgin birth is somehow parallel to Zeus' sexual escapades.
The idea that a God impregnates women was foreign to the Jewish religion.
There are so many oddities in Christianity that more closely mirror Greek life than Jewish life: being able to consume a God, God's impregnating humans to create demi-Gods, obviously the language the Gospel was written in, the growth of Satan as a person (Hades), the holy trinity (a play off of having multiple Gods), the depiction of Gods in statues and paintings (strictly prohibited in Judaism), etc.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:11:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Well yeah it would be foreign to Judaism. Nothing like the incarnation had ever happened before. That doesn't mean though that it somehow parallels the Greek myths. That said there are Old Testament types and prophecy which looking back we can see pointed to or foretold of the Incarnation.
As for the rest of your comment, you're really just grasping at straws: There is nothing in the New Testament about "consuming a God". That is a medieval Romish invention which all Protestants reject. "Gods impregnating to create Demi-gods" is also not in the New Testament as Jesus is not considered a Demi God, further the virgin birth and Mary's impregnation are completely unique. Almost everything important was written in Greek so that's a non argument. Satan was seen as personal in the OT (Especially in Job). The Trinity is not multiple gods nor an accommodation to polytheism. Christianity, and the New Testament, is strictly monotheistic. Finally, the depiction of God in images and statues is not promoted in the NT and while many sects have compromised on this, many haven't and still reject the use of images in worship.
" "Gods impregnating to create Demi-gods" is also not in the New Testament as Jesus is not considered a Demi God"
God or Demi-God. And to different Christians he is.
" further the virgin birth and Mary's impregnation are completely unique"
Right. But notice how in the first Gospel there was no mention of the virgin birth. They only introduce it in later Gospels.
"The Trinity is not multiple gods nor an accommodation to polytheism"
In Judaism there is only one God. Christianity didn't know whether Jesus was God or not, which is why they eventually had to vote on it at the Counsel of Nicea. The trinity cannot be resolved with Judaism. Not sure what you're talking about.
"Finally, the depiction of God in images and statues is not promoted in the NT and while many sects have compromised on this, many haven't and still reject the use of images in worship."
The overwhelming majority do. Look at the interior of the Vatican.
pgm123 · 3 points · Posted at 21:03:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The actual Hebrew was means young woman.
I believe the actual Hebrew of the time could refer to both. Either way, Mary was a young woman.
No because there is the Hebrew word for virgin and they chose young woman.
Additionally, before the dead sea scrolls one could argue that perhaps the Masoretic text was changed, but the dead sea scrolls (and I verified this myself) use the word for young woman and not virgin.
Of course a young woman was most likely a virgin, but that's the danger of relying on Greek interpretations because they assume things.
How many places is H5959 even found in the Tanakh? Seven total? Genesis 24:23, Exodus 2:8, Psalm 68:25, Proverbs 30:19, Song of Songs 1:3 & 6:8, and Isaiah 7:14? Those might all refer to an unmarried virgin. If it stems from H5956 through H5958 and that's referred to below, then what does that suggest is meant?
"A primitive root; to veil from sight, that is, conceal (literally or figuratively):— X any ways, blind, dissembler, hide (self), secret (thing)."
-http://lexiconcordance.com/hebrew/5956.html
Bethulah or H1330 might actually be more ambiguous than almah or H5956 is when it comes to what refers to a virgin. Consider Joel 1:8 if the former is used there? When is a married woman or a widow also a virgin?
"1:8 Lament like a virgin girded with sackcloth for the husband of her youth."
-Joel 1:8 (RNKJV)
בתולה (b'tulah, betulah) is the Hebrew noun for 'virgin'. The Christian church has since it's founding interpreted עלמה (alma, almah; 'young woman') and every instance of it in Torah, Nevi'im, and Ketuvim -- 'TaNaKh', the Hebrew 'bible' -- to mean 'virgin'.
The Christian church founders didn't seem very interested in a likewise interpretative enforcement of the masculine form of עלם (elem; 'young man') as somehow virginal though they interpreted 'Elem' in it's proper manner every place they've used it.
Emmanuel is the name the prophet Isaiah used in his prophecy regarding the coming of the Messiah. It means "God is with us".
Matthew (the gospel writer) was aware of this discrepancy and dedicated some of his account to explaining why Jesus fulfills the prophecy despite this difference.
What if you have a great point and names should be transliterated instead of translated. There might be demons who don't want people to know some names.
You're generally not supposed to translate names, but I don't know how old that convention is.
This case is probably more of a matter of phonetics rather than direct translation issues. Different languages have different sounds - like how Japanese people have problems with "L"s as we hear it. They just don't have the same sound in their language, so they have a hard time distinguishing it from it's closest sound, but we have a really easy time picking up the incorrect pronunciation.
So the phonetic shifts from hebrew to greek to latin to english would account for the differences.
It's like when you keep throwing translations of translations between language families through a mechanical translator like Google Translate. Usually the gist of the original word/phrase gets through, but it gets mangled.
Because they have different phonemes. That is to say that not all languages posses the same sounds (ie consonants and vowels). For instance, if you were to look at how a Vietnamese man spells his name in English (and how English speakers would pronounce his name), it would be very different from how he spells and pronounces it in his native tongue. The same applies to those archaic languages. The try to use the best sounds they can to imitate their names, but they're going to be off by a bit.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 21:26:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus...
bijhan · 2 points · Posted at 21:31:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Romans would have called him something similar to "YAY-sooz"
he wouldn't have been call son of Mary in his day. Jews were a patriarchal not matriarchal society. Yeshua would have been called son of David due to his lineage or son of joseph
I am thinking of the Mishnah. Whatever. This post is relevant as it underlines how most Christians now nothing about Christian history, because they have no interest in objective history about their religion. I spent a decade studying this shit, and I am not a Christian.
Can someone please post the different variations of the Navy Seal copy pasta? To me it represents the craziness of literally interpreting something in the Bible. I'm not making an critiques concerning the messages or stories in the Bible, but when someone goes in a interprets it by the literal word, it's ridiculous!
Jharakn · 2 points · Posted at 23:19:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Arghh idiot! in Latin, Jehovah starts with an I"
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 23:20:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sessamy · 2 points · Posted at 23:55:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Maranatha.
"2 John 1:7"
“For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.”
If you have a version that's not the King James Bible (see textus receptus vs nestles text; the vatican is the mystery babylon whore in Revelation 17), that verse is most likely changed or removed. The roman catholics change the word of God (and the Word in many cases - lowercase always means the written word and capital Word always means Jesus Christ) - look at the final chapter of Revelation to what happens to people who add or take away from the word of God. Look up Acts 8:37 for example. It's either removed or footnoted as "not part of the 'inspired text'". The King James bible (printed from the right sources such as http://localchurchbiblepublishers.com/bibles/ they don't make profit because of England's laws on the KJV) has never been edited since it was finished in 1611.
Look up Acts 8:37 for example. It's either removed or footnoted as "not part of the 'inspired text'". What does it say? "...I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." The vatican doesn't believe that, so they removed that.
"18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen."
Sessamy · 1 points · Posted at 16:03:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
google it and then read "2 John 1:7"
“For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.”
If you have a version that's not the King James Bible (see textus receptus vs nestles text; the vatican is the mystery babylon whore in Revelation 17), that verse is most likely changed or removed. The roman catholics change the word of God (and the Word in many cases - lowercase always means the written word and capital Word always means Jesus Christ) - look at the final chapter of Revelation to what happens to people who add or take away from the word of God. Look up Acts 8:37 for example. It's either removed or footnoted as "not part of the 'inspired text'". The King James bible (printed from the right sources such as http://localchurchbiblepublishers.com/bibles/ they don't make profit because of England's laws on the KJV) has never been edited since it was finished in 1611.
"18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen."
Or to be precise, Yoshua Ben Yosef ha Levi.
Joshua, son of Joseph the Levi. (Levi being the tribe, the warrior priests who guarded the temple). Tribe still around today, I am one of them.
Islam also sees Jesus as a prophet. He is very important to that religion. Arabic is the language of Islam.
SvenDia · 2 points · Posted at 05:34:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
True, Jesus (or Isa ibn Maryam) is mentioned more times in the Quran than Mohammed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam If you want a true mind fuck, read what ISIS have to say about Jesus.
Yes, but we're talking about how a word is pronounced after being translated through three other languages compared to the original. It's pronunciation in an unrelated language has... nothing to do with that.
Actually this post is entirely about how a name was mistranscribed through languages. It is thus relevant to bring another example of the same name for comparison.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 01:28:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Very late to the party but I read pretty far down and didn't see anyone cover this. Jesus is a westernized form of the Greek transliteration of Yeshua or Yahushua.
Follow along...
Transliteration is trying to phonetically recreate a name or word into another language.
Yeshua is a Hebrew word. The new testament authors used Greek because it was the universal language at the time.
Making Yeshua's name in Greek letters is hard. There is no "y" sound in Greek! How do you imitate that sound "I&E" right next to each other. I sounds like a long E, as in bee. E sounds like A as in bay. Say "EeeAy" quickly and you create a "Y" sound. The middle kind of works and then throw an "S" on the end because all male Greek names ended in S.
Eventually we anglicize the "i" that was a transliteration tool into its own letter. Now we call Him Jesus...
I'm not certain, but Hebrew and Aramaic are very similar. Also the main language of the area was Hebrew, although Aramaic was widely spoken.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 03:09:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Actually, Hebrew wasn't used as a language (other than in specific literature or liturgy) from 2 BC and until the 19th century. Aramaic was employed back in Jesus' day.
This is true, although Jews steadily used Hebrew more and Aramaic less after the Diaspora began after the Bar-Kokhba revolt in about 130. Armenia adopted Christianity later (becoming the first state to do so), but was there a large Aramaic speaking population in the area in the intervening period?
so you're telling me that if I translate Jesus to latin (Iesu) then to greek (Ιησούς) then to Hebrew (ישו)
Jesus translated to latin then greek then Hebrew should then give us the Hebrew name for Jesus. So if we translate that back to English we should get Joshua right?
I get Jesus again.
pgm123 · 2 points · Posted at 21:04:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You have to use Aramaic as a stepping stone.
Anrza · 1 points · Posted at 22:01:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
latin (Iesu)
Iesus*. Iesu is an inflected form of Iesus.
Are you using Google translate or something? Then you're bound to get a bad translation.
So it's not weird that people name their kids Jesus, it's weird that so many people worship someone named Josh. I wouldn't trust directions to the bathroom from a Josh, let alone directions to Heaven.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 04:19:08 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Remember everyone: every word of your English translation of this text is LITERALLY true. Except for the name of the main character. That part got completely messed up. Not even close to what it used to be.
But the rest obviously must be the inerrant word of God.
Thesecharts will clear doubts about his name, and in simpler terms it means 'Savior'. That's one of the reason why I think Jesus is more likely a figure of myth not of history, I mean the name is just too convenient.
ANOTHER ONE: The real word for God in Judaism was rarely spoken because it was too holy so they said Yahweh instead and now we have no idea what the original word was.
You sure yod-heh-waw-heh-shiyn-ayin was really ever closer than yod-heh-waw-shiyn-ayin? The later might be as original as you will find. Zechariah 6:11-13.
Soy7ent · 0 points · Posted at 21:02:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Why don't white people ever name their kids Jesus? It's only the Mexicans. I think it's because he was a carpenter. I bet if Jesus had been a dentist there'd be lots of little white Jesuses running around.
Not a lot of white religious people name their kids afaik name their kids after religious figures.
Really? I think there's a lot of Biblical names used by white people. Just look at all the names of various patriarchs and prophets in the Old Testament, as well as Apostles in the New Testament; many of them are common names.
Good point. I'm talking about names with deep religious meaning, like Guadalupe. Names like Peter, Luke, Ethan or Stephen don't really have any significance if you're not a bible reader. Not a lot of people are going to name their kids Hezekiah or Habakkuk though, even though it seemed more common up until the last century.
The title is wrong. It got translated to Greek, there was not a sound for SH so they changed to a hard S and they removed the a as the end because a at the end is feminine in Greek. Instead changing it to an S.
Then it got translated to Old German, which pronounced J with a Y sound. (Also why Yakob is Jacob, Yennifer is Jennifer, etc) More or less you have the Christian Gothic Germanic tribes and the Germanic Franks to thank for the spreading of the current spelling and later mispronunciation of Jesus around Europe and you have Europe's dominance of the Rennaisance and on to thank for wiping out the proper pronunciation around the globe.
Jesus is Yeshua, he has the same name as the man ordered to slaughter and rape a ton of innocents in the Bible because he had a common Everyman name.
I learned that from Christopher Moore and his book Lamb. If you are devout, do not look that up. On the other hand, if you wanna read a masterpiece of crude religious satire, please look into it
How about we study ancient language and not 100% rely on English? Should there be an angelic police force standing around not allowing anyone to do anything that is wrong?
Unneeded, the Christian god is already "omnipresent". Combined with being Omniscient, and Omnipotent, means that Humans do not in any way have free will. Everything is made according to "gods plan" because he set it up in order to manipulate humans to behave in certain ways and do certain things so that he can have an excuse to create eternal beings in order to stoke the fires of hell.
So you are arguing that god is not Omnipotent, nor Omniscient, and that he did not create Hell, or Earth or anything else, and is really just a very nice yet utterly powerless being? Which is completely at odds with anything biblical, but of course if he was indeed not Omniscient or Omnipotent that would make sense as then the bible, and all other holy texts would just be whatever the crap anyone wanted to write, as god would have had no influence on it.
What suggested I meant to imply He didn't create anything?
What if He actually gave us paradise and we ourselves messed up in a way that led to death and He gave us a way out and is not willing that anyone perish?
"18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Sovereign YHWH: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye."
Ezekiel 18:31-32 (RNKJV)
"3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with YHWH as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
3:9 YHWH is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
3:10 But the day of YHWH will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all set-apart conversation and reverence,
3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of YHWH, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."
2 Peter 3:8-13 (RNKJV)
So are you claiming god as being Omniscient, and Omnipotent or not? If you are then "free will" does not exist, as god would know exactly what every single person who ever exists would choose to do before they were ever born by however he chose to set up the universe. AKA he would be allowing people to come into existence knowing full well he was creating them strictly to be tortured for eternity. AKA God would be an absolutely huge dick undeserving of worship by anyone with the least bit of moral fiber.
If you are claiming that god is neither Omnipotent, nor Omniscient then you admit he would have had no control over the texts you are citing, and if that is the case they are not the word of god by any measure, but are simply the ramblings of normal/probably pretty deluded human beings. On top of that even if said powerless god existed, why would he be called god as opposed to "really nice guy that is wishing us well".
Ahh so your response is a mental shutdown. The existence of an Omniscient, and Omnipotent being by definition eliminates free will from any lesser being, the "God" knows exactly how every single person will react, and has complete control over every stimulus to carry out those reactions. Meaning that he creates people specifically for the fires of hell, and makes sure by either his actions or inaction that they make choices to lead themselves there, like cattle in a coral. This of course makes god a sadistic monster, at least from our point of view. From his point of view he may need those souls burning to keep his intergalactic coffee warm, as such a being would be more likely to view us as we view ants than as anything remotely related to beings deserving of affection.
You might ultimately be arguing that the Creator can't create someone without programming every step they will go on to make. What if there was a net cast into a sea in a sense? And do you really even know if anyone is going to be tortured forever?
No, I am saying that a deity who is omnipotent, and Omniscient by definition knows everything a person ever will think or do. It is the defining property of having those abilities. So either you have a god who is not all knowing, and all powerful, in which case, why call it god? Or you Have a deity who IS all knowing, and all powerful who by virtue of his own stated rules, and the observations of the reality we experience, is a gigantic dick.
If you start wanting to pick and choose what you think is "real" from your holy book then you can no longer assume any of it is legitimate.
Did whoever is referred to here see all there is to see at all times?
"1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood."
-Isaiah 1:15 (RNKJV)
Do we even know what is going to happen to the devil for sure if the Creator has said He would do something and then decided not to?
"3:10 And Elohim saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and Elohim repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not."
-Jonah 3:10 (RNKJV)
What is my holy book if I'm non-Pauline and more into 1 Enoch than Galatians?
Then it wouldn't matter if he isn't looking now would it? He already knows what is going to happen, him looking changes nothing, he already knows the choice that will be made.
Is it not true that He either created beings destined for eternal punishment while knowing they were destined beforehand or He didn't? What's not a vain debate centered on subjective judgement of perfection if it's already been established that there is scripture that concerns Him closing His eyes?
I'm late so provably won't get an answer, but how are names, being proper nouns, translated? Wouldn't my name be Alex everywhere no matter the language
I was just thinking this. I think it's becomes some names have meanings, and so those meanings must be translated? Beats me. I hope someone smart comes along to answer this question.
Yes, but he would have spoken Hebrew as well since that's the language of worship and religious study. He may also have spoken Greek.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 21:58:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
They did. But Hebrew was still used in naming conventions (similar to how we still use Latinate names, yet we don't speak it). There might a chance that Yeshuah is also in Aramaic, though.
On a somewhat separate note, I think I also once learned that no one was named Peter until Saint Peter had his name changed from Simon to Peter by Jesus. It was the equivalent of calling someone a rock; hence why Peter was called the rock of the church (the first pope). Of course, that's the Catholic view. Protestants, well, ya know won't agree.
Just to add to this discussion, my middle name is Joseph. When I moved to Israel they started to call me "Yoseph". It's the translation into Hebrew. However, I actually went by Eliyahu which means Elijah who was a prophet.
There was a 1970s - 1980s movie that was Jesus' story updated to modern-day (at the time). In that movie, his name was Joshua. The thing that stuck out to me all these years later was the worship-like music that was rewritten substituting 'Joshua' for 'Jesus'.
I don't remember if it was just a joke or something, but I read a chuckle worthy analysis of the name "Jesus of Nazarene".
First off, Jesus <-- Yeshua <-- Joshua. Secondly, when some is titled "of [insert location]", it normally denotes that the person is from somewhere far away, to the people you say it to; but, Biblical scholars say Jesus only traveled, at most, about 10 kilometers (or miles, I don't remember which) from where he grew up when he was doing his Jesus things (it'd be like Obama going to Evanston and being titled "Barack of Chicago").
So, this name "Jesus of Nazarene", which seems to be really prestigious, really only means "Josh from around the corner"
BeBa420 · 1 points · Posted at 22:14:54 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ahh that's why he's called Jesus.
I always knew his name was Joshua. Figured he was referred to colloquially as Jesus because there already was a Joshua in the bible and it didn't make sense to name the son of the big cheese after a minor biblical figure
It's pretty convenient, since the Bible already has at least two Joshuas. If we didn't translate the names, the whole thing would be just lousy with Joshuas.
that wasn't the only thing lost in translation. apparently a hebrew librarian filed his bible in the non-fiction section
qp0n · 1 points · Posted at 22:17:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not to discount the mildly interesting nature of this post .... but there's no literal translation for names. Names are names, any change made for another culture is just a different name. Otherwise we would call Socrates "Steve".
Jacob and James are the same way, where it's the same name from Hebrew that took different paths through other languages to arrive at English. Jacob is close to the Hebrew but James went through Latin as Jacobus and at some point morphed into Jacomus. It's why James can be translated into "Diego" in Spanish.
2) full form spelling with full long 'u'in the middle. Ye Ho Shu a
1) same as #2 except it is missing the full 'u' in the middle. Ye Ho S(u)a
3)Yeshua. It is missing the Ho in the middle.
compuzr · 1 points · Posted at 22:24:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Tis the Holiday Season, when we celebrate the story of Yehoshua Hamashiach and his apostles, Shim'on who was called Cephas, Ya'aqov, Yochanan, Bar-Talmai, Mattityahu, Tau’ma (the doubter), Yehuda the Iscariot, Andreas and Filippos, the other Shim'on, the other Ya'aqov, and Thaddaeus. And of course the one who prepared the way, Yūhannā al-maʿmadān.
Okay, am I the only one who thinks "son of Nun" is an awesome title? I mean, yeah I know it was one of his parent's name, but . . . it sounds like a rapper's name!
Tetro2 · 1 points · Posted at 22:40:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
While we are on the topic All James's in the New Testament are Jacobs in Hebrew and Greek
The name James has undergone a similar transformation. In the New Testament, the disciple known in English as "James" is named Ἰάκωβος, which would transliterate to "Jacob." However, when translated to Latin, it became either "Iacobus" or "Iacomus," since the b and m sounds were similar. I think it came through Old French as well.
And this is because the Old Testament was translated into English from Hebrew, while the New Testament comes from Greek.
For this reason, you also seem some Latin Bibles that call the Book of Joshua "Iesus filius Nun." ("Jesus the son of Nun"), because they preserved the Greek-derived transliteration for the Old Testament figure, too. Other versions transliterate as Iosuë.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:55:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus also says the world is gay. /esotericjoke
3Power · 1 points · Posted at 23:00:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And even then we pronounce it wrong. It's actually "E-ES-SU" in greek/latin.
DaFo4 · 1 points · Posted at 23:01:50 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Seriously ? WTF ? No wonder, he hasn't gotten any of my messages. I've been sending them to Jesus Christ. Joshua Christ HELP mang I need a loan.
If one were to be pedantic, it's actually Yeshua. There's no j in ancient Hebrew (I can't speak for modern Hebrew because all my education has focused on Biblical translation), just y. Today, it would be usually anglicized as Joshua. There're no vowels as we think of them in ancient Hebrew either, the addition of vowel marks was done by the Masoretes to preserve the way they pronounced the language. So it is Yeshua, yes, but the kind of person that would have a fit at you if you say Joshua tends to also be a person not worth paying attention to.
So if last names originated from your occupation, it could be assumed that Jesus' name was Carpenter. Joshua Carpenter. I now understand why he is always depicted as a white man.
This is how you can confirm that there are mistakes in the Bible. It's been translated over so many different languages so many times that it has lost its initial meaning.
nomad80 · 1 points · Posted at 02:13:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yet it is. The bible is not only read in Hebrew anymore, it is translated to many languages and for some reason, unknown to me, there is a common practice of transliteration of proper nouns, which is an improper practice. Yeshua is his name, it is the Hebrew word for 'salvation'. In the Bible Miriam (Mary) is told by the arch angel Gabriel that she will "name him Yeshua because he will be a savior to his people." The problem with western Christianity, especially in America is that so much of the root is lost. Christianity was never supposed to be a new religion, it was only an extension of Judaism, a new covenant between God and the Israelites wherein He also brought all of the gentiles into the inheritance of the kingdom as well. Yeshua's presence and life/teachings was meant to bring repentance (turn away from) from sin and a reconciliation with God. Mashiach (we say Messiah) is a uniquely Hebrew/Jewish concept which means 'anointed one' That is why you will also see Jesus called Jesus Christ, which most American Christians seem to think is his first and last name. Christ has its origins in the word Christos which is Greek for "to anoint", hardly the same. But that came from the Hebrew Yeshua HaMashiach or Yeshua the anointed Ha meaning the in Hebrew and Mashiach meaning 'anointed one' If he were to have a surname it would have been Yeshua ben Yosef (ben Yosef means son of Yosef) but that is debated as Christianity/Messianic Judaism says Yeshua was not born of Joseph with Mary (Miriam)
Actually the only sect that had it translated into Latin was the Catholic church. If I remember right the modern Catholic version was taken from the Douay Bible which was an early translation. Many new discoveries have been found since.
Oh, like that time I translated the Gettysburg Address from English to Chinese to Portuguese and back to English. "We meet at the battle where the war is large." Classic.
EDIT: I don't actually remember which languages we used. Just tried it with those two and got less funny results. YMMV
What happens is that you try to write a name from one language in another. Unfortunately not all languages share the same set of letters, so you approximate. Repeat with different languages, and you end up with a very distorted name.
He didn't really have one. Yeshua bar Yoseph would mean Joshua sone of Joseph.
If you insist, Joshua Josephson.
ToadFab · 1 points · Posted at 00:35:56 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus
ianyboo · 1 points · Posted at 00:37:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I just don't get the "name translated to other language" thing. I mean... a name should just be what it is, it shouldn't change if the person is talking to someone who speaks a different language...
Urd · 1 points · Posted at 00:44:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It probably mainly comes down to going from phonetic spelling to pronunciation based on that spelling. So if you have a name written in another language, like Chinese for example, and you are trying to write it on a form in the US, probably anyone who sees it won't know what it means when they see it. So you might write it using English characters phonetically, with whatever sounds closest to how your name is pronounced. Then when someone else comes along and reads it on the form, they may not pronounce it exactly the same since they didn't hear you say it. Doing this through several languages can make the name change a fair bit.
ianyboo · 1 points · Posted at 00:53:19 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I get that part of it. Especially in terms of having it written. But the huge phonetic changes still don't make a lot of sense. I'm not even bothered by the small phonetic changes, I'm really only talking about the big stuff here.
They have the dead sea scrolls to compare it to and have found that the correct meaning was never lost. Not only this but Judaism and Hebrew/Aramaic never stopped being a language, even when Jews were exiled from Israel ca. 70 AD/CE. Hebrew remained the liturgical language for Jews throughout the diaspora.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 15:25:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm not saying the texts have changed, I'm saying you can't just open a bible and think you know what the words originally were intended to mean.
Ah, yes. Josh Christ, savior of the Dave Matthews Band.
Cagn · 1 points · Posted at 00:40:12 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ok, there are a whole lot of good discussions in this thread but I need someone to find me a good audio for this. I want to hear how his name would have been pronounced to his face.
iseijin · 1 points · Posted at 00:43:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
While not religious myself, one of the interesting books my dad has is a Bible concordance. It shows the Hebrew roots of lots of words found in the Bible. Quite interesting.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:44:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus Christ.....
dcbcpc · 1 points · Posted at 00:44:11 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Its actually Yeshua ( HaMaschiach)... Christ is not a last name. Yeshua means salvation in Hebrew, as it was foretold, "you shall call his name 'Yeshua' because he will be a savior to his people." HaMashiach means the annointed one or the annointed. Yod Shin Waw/Oo Ayin (Ye shu A (guttural a)
Adamj1 · 1 points · Posted at 01:02:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So calling him "Jesus" is sort of a Super Karate Monkey Death Car situation.
I once translated something which now escapes me using google translate, and kept putting it through different languages before putting it back in to English. The siliest outcome was when I'd translated the term several times before translating it in to Chinese and then English at which point it was "Small man who collects flowers".
What happens is that you try to write a name from one language in another. Unfortunately not all languages share the same set of letters, so you approximate. Repeat with different languages, and you end up with a very distorted name.
I grew up near a pretty large Jewish community, the synagogues was just up the street from my house. Half my friends were jews, and at very large number of them were named Joshua. I always called them jesus (Spanish pronunciation hay-sus), just because I thought it was hilarious when I was 14.
I don't know this story at all. Tell me more, scholar.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 12:14:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hmm, well, Joshua (Yehoshua) was one of the twelve spies sent by Moses into Canaan (Numbers) to explore it. After Moses' death, he led the Israelites and conquered Canaan, allocating its lands to the tribes (Book of Joshua).
The Bible has some interesting stories, which if adapted to a more fictive point of view, can be a decent read.
Christ was a term for Messiah if I recall, can't remember the Language. Also, king of the Jews, as recognised by those who are not the Jews.
Yeshua bar Yoseph would more end up as Joshua Josephson.
SvenDia · 2 points · Posted at 05:28:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Actually, it comes from the Greek word Christos, which means anointed one. If he existed, no one would have called him Christ. It was not his last name.
True. Yehoshua is more correct but it can be shortened to Yeshua. Basically, without shortening it means I Am Salvation. The original four letter name means I Am. With the shua ending which is Salvation, it means, I am Salvation. If you take the name of God in Hebrew which is Yod Hey Vav Hey and just use the letters they become, Behold the Hand, Behold the Nail. Then use the letters as a word it's, once more, I am.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 03:16:24 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That is incorrect. Yehoshua means "God is salvation." It is written יהושע in Hebrew, יה being a common prefix and suffix in names (referencing God) and י-ש-ע is the root for "salvation."
It's still off. The title says translated it would mean Joshua. Well, that's wrong on two counts. Translated it would mean, I am salvation. Transliterated it would be Yehoshua. So it's wrong both ways.
Except it isn't a direct transliteration, which is precisely the problem. It is transcribed from Hebrew to Greek, and then much later to Latin. It is the cumulative errors that bring about this result.
They are in Hebrew though, and transcribing in the same language is unlikely to produce an error. The problem comes when you go from one language to another without certain letters.
I don't see where in my comment I have suggested otherwise. Or what this has to do with the present discussion. Of course we have the ancient Hebrew. Jews use this to read the Torah in prayer often. Moreover it allows us to make these comparisons in the first place.
Except the title says "translated". So my assertion is mostly about the title as it is extremely inaccurate. Joshua is not a translation. At best you could say it's a vulgarized transliteration based of the Latin usage of the name which is based off the Greek usage of the name which is based off the later Hebrew shortened version which is based off the original Yehoshuah.
Yeshua (ישוע), with vowel pointing יֵשׁוּעַ – yēšūă‘ in Hebrew) was a common alternative form of the name יְהוֹשֻׁעַ ("Yehoshuah" – Joshua) in later books of the Hebrew Bible
So you can see, the name you use is a shortened version. Of course I imagine to a speaker from that time period it might be understood what the original meaning was for the full length of the name.
Even the Wiki article gets it a bit wrong as well.
The name corresponds to the Greek spelling Iesous, from which, through the Latin Iesus, comes the English spelling Jesus
But, note this:
The letter J was first distinguished from 'I' by the Frenchman Pierre Ramus in the 16th century, but did not become common in Modern English until the 17th century, so that early 17th century works such as the first edition of the King James Version of the Bible (1611) continued to print the name with an I."
The change in spelling and pronunciation did not come directly to English. It was a later change. That would mean that in the 16th century no one ever spoke the name Jesus as it didn't exist then.
This Wiki statement from what I have learned makes the most sense.
The Hebrew spelling Yeshua (ישוע) appears in some later books of the Hebrew Bible.
the usual Hebrew Bible spelling of Joshua (יְהוֹשֻׁעַ y'hoshuaʿ), found 218 times in the Hebrew Bible,
So it would seem that the longest version is the most used in the Tanakh, with the shortened version coming in later books, perhaps as the writers made concessions to the changes occurring in contemporary name usage among the people.
It can be argued that the Aramaic speakers who used this name had a continual connection to the Aramaic-speakers in communities founded by the apostles and other students of Jesus, thus independently preserved his historical name Yeshuuʕ and the Eastern dialectical Ishoʕ. Those churches following the East Syrian Rite still preserve the name Isho
So, it might be argued with some merit that the name in His village of Nazareth he was called Yeshua or even Yeshuu.
I did read the entire wiki article and have read many other arguments about this name and it's origins and meanings. As for a translation, I would stick with "I Am Salvation" as this is what the context most strongly suggests.
I seem to recall the Bible saying He'd have a lot names and they're all the ones by which people would be saved. I remember this one very small sect (cult?) saying the only real translation was yehushua and that what we call him today was derived from zeus and it therfore didn't count.
Yeah, the letter J didn't exist in English or Hebrew until after the 16th century. So Jesus was spelled like Joshua in Hebrew, but was pronounced Yeshua. That's why the original King James Bible doesn't have any J's either.
JoshCL · 1 points · Posted at 04:34:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Idk if this is considered etymology but this post, and the discussion it created is just. Fucking. Awesome. I am so fascinating by why we call things what we do. History is a giant game of telephone!
Yeshua in Hebrew is a verbal derivative from "to rescue", "to deliver"--I find this interesting.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 04:50:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
willoz · 1 points · Posted at 05:15:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Is that like people named "Guy?"
Holinyx · 1 points · Posted at 04:57:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Writing down all these cool new DnD/RPG names I can use
SvenDia · 1 points · Posted at 04:57:14 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
And he didn't have a last name either. Christ is just an an anglicized version of the Greek word christos, which means anointed one. No one would have called him Yeshua Christ
xHussin · 1 points · Posted at 05:02:43 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
In arabic we call him Isa. Mary is arabic is Maryam.
Tsemnar · 1 points · Posted at 05:08:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Funny there are some sects out there that don't believe you are truly saved unless you've been baptized in the name of Jesus.
"well, the guys back then were baptized in the name of Joshua. The guys after that in Jesu's name. So, which ones were saved and which ones weren't?"
willoz · 1 points · Posted at 05:14:08 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It might (might) be more accurate to say it would be "Josh" rather than "Joshua." Joshua is "יְהוֹשֻׁעַ," (Ye-hoshu-a), and Jesus is "יֵשׁוּעַ" (Ye-shu-a), which could be called a "pet" form of Joshua (why I say "Josh").
It still retains the same general meaning in Hebrew. "יְהוֹשׁוּעַ" = "Yah (a shortened form of the name of God, Yahweh) is deliverance/salvation (from the Hebrew root 'יָשַׁע,' 'Ya-shah' -- 'to save/deliver')."
(Possibly) Interesting note -- Hebrew names commonly use "Yah" or "Yahu" (Hezekiah/Hiz-ki-yahu/Strength of Yah, Elijah/Eli-yahu/Yahu is my God, Obadiah/Eved-Yahu/Servant of Yahu) to keep from violating the 3rd commandment not to take the name of The LORD in vain. This is the same reason Jews today will use "Hashem" ("The Name") to refer to God and, traditionally, they would use "Adonai" ("My lord"). As an extension of this, we get "Jehova" from the same place. In the Tanakh (Hebrew Old Testament), the word "יהוה" ("Yahweh" -- God's literal name) is pointed with the vowels for "אֲדֹנָי" ("My lord") as a reminder to the reader to vocalize the word as "Adonai" rather than "Yahweh" to keep the name sacred and not violate the 3rd commandment. When the Textus Receptus (Latin Bible -- the "Received Text") was produced, it was rendered without this fact in mind as "Yo-vah," which turned into "Jehova" in English. While beyond the scope of this comment, read up on "niqqud" or "dots" to understand vowels in Hebrew if you're super interested and have a bunch of unused time on your hands.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 05:23:17 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Actually jesus is a mistranslation of the name is Yahshua which is a contraction of Yahweh is salvation(Yahweh is often mistranslated as Jehovah or lord). This also makes john 5:43 more sensible when Yahshua said I come in my fathers name(Yahweh).
cediddi · 1 points · Posted at 05:29:57 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This might be why we call him isa "ee-sah". I always wondered where the "J" went.
Suddenly Drake and Josh memes got a lot more interesting
ani0227 · 1 points · Posted at 06:10:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
i have a cousin from boston named joshua whos a total red-sox loving dude and i just think the bible is way more interesting if we imagine jesus as a loud mouthed axe body spray wearing dude-bro.
"turn the other cheek, brah!" -Joshua Christ to his Cousin Jay Bro "the Baptist". while playing Call of Duty
I don't understand why we don't call these people by their actual names.
SvenDia · 1 points · Posted at 06:55:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Please don't make assumptions about what I've read or haven't read. I was merely using Wikipedia to quickly confirm what I've read in multiple books and other places. Until you've seen my bookshelves, I'd think twice about attacking my credibility.
Once you start learning something like this, I would guess that an inquiring mind would want to learn more about how the bible is changed in translation, and how these translations change or obscure our understanding. What is "Christ", what does "Messiah" mean, what does "Matthew" mean, what does "Barabbas" mean, etc.? Now that you know that Jesus was Joshua, perhaps you might investigate who Joshua was in the Hebrew religion. You might be surprised to discover that he was the focus of a Jewish sect that revered him greater than Moses. You might discover that the idea of a preexistent spiritual son of God was not a novel idea among the Jews anyway. Paul’s contemporary, Philo, interprets the messianic prophecy of Zechariah 6:11-12 in just such a way. In the Septuagint this says to place the crown of kingship upon “Jesus,” for “So says Jehovah the Ruler of All, ‘Behold the man named ‘Rises’, and he shall rise up from his place below and he shall build the House of the Lord’.” This pretty much is the Christian Gospel. Philo was a Platonic thinker, so he could not imagine this as referring to “a man who is compounded of body and soul,” but thought it meant an “incorporeal being who in no respect differs from the divine image” whom “the Father of the Universe has caused to spring up as the eldest son.” Then Philo says, “In another passage, he calls this son the firstborn,” and says “he who is thus born” imitates “the ways of his father.” (Richard Carrier, Not the Impossible Faith, pp. 250-251).
CDZA co-founder Joe Sabia shows us what happens when we translate the lyrics of the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air through every language in Google Translate (64 times), and then taking what remains and translating it BACK into English.
How awkward! It's a good thing that nothing else has ever been mistranslated over thousands of years of Christianity, thus avoiding the risk of basing modern policy on antiquated ideas that may not have ever even existed in a literal sense in the first place. Phew.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 19:38:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Shorter variations include, "Yossi" or "Yoseph". You've heard Jossie or Joseph.
elev57 · 2 points · Posted at 20:44:24 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yoseph is a different name from Yehoshua. Yoseph means "God will increase". Joshua means "God is salvation". They are related in that they are both theophoric names using "Jah" as a basis.
Do you really think Yehoshua is a more accurate transliteration than Yahushua? What's trustworthy about vowel pointings if they aren't original to Ibrit? There might have been many efforts made to try to cover up the Tetragrammaton.
Apologize for leading you on like that. I wasn't commenting on those specifics. For the purposes of my comment both were interchangeable. You'll have to ask someone else about that.
I am Josh and I feel rather lordish and savioury after reading this.
Zoklett · 1 points · Posted at 00:11:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
As someone who spoke fluent Hebrew as a child and read the tweet rah several times as well as the New Testament once it has always boggled my mind how not only different they are but how sure people are that the scripture they are reading is verboten. How are you so sure your doctrine is the more accurate one when it's translated from one ancient language you don't know to another ancient language you don't know before being translated into one you understand. The original could say anything and your book could be entirely made up and fabricated and you really wouldn't ever know. Not saying the book is any BETTER in Hebrew, but if you the only version of the book you've read is in English that is not the original story or verbiage. Not even close.
Edit spelling
nomad80 · 1 points · Posted at 02:01:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's where original & interlinear text comes in handy for the more serious students. And there are enough of them to address any grave problems. The accounts of Paul cover most of the standard objections by the Jewish brotherhood
Zoklett · 1 points · Posted at 06:09:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't know Paul and his fluency in Latin, Greek, and Hebrew but it would seem to me that if there are that many discrepancies in not just verbiage used but also diction - Hebrew and Aramaic are simply not spoken like Latin or even Greek - Paul would have to have an extraordinary knowledge of regional colloquials that predate his existence by at the very minimum a thousand years. Of course, if you omit the entirety of the Old Testament including the creation story, then perhaps one could make the argument that Paul was able to accurately transcribe things. I just don't see how it would be possible for someone with minimal knowledge of the culture and language could possibly assert themselves an expert on a book that was written by said culture in said language. Hell, even when you are fluent in Hebrew some of it doesn't match up because it's in ancient Hebrew, which is the equivalent of reading Olde English. So, I'm not an expert on Paul and I'll look that up, but if I recall correctly he was in Psalms which is far far later than the Old Testament, which is what I'm calling on.
nomad80 · 1 points · Posted at 06:18:08 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ah, I assumed you were familiar since you said you read the NT
Paul was a Roman citizen by birth, Greek as his first language, Jew by lineage & deeply rooted in Pharisaic traditions, hence his earlier persecution of the early Church - addresses a lot of your doubts
Perhaps some reading may help; wiki is a reasonably fair place to begin; from the NT Acts onwards covers a lot
Zoklett · 1 points · Posted at 07:34:17 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I did, but it was a long time ago and I did read it over and over like the Torah. I looked up his Wikipedia. Pretty interesting.
nomad80 · 1 points · Posted at 08:51:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It was a life less ordinary, indeed
D-Shap · 1 points · Posted at 00:27:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Technically not true. Top comment mentions it but Jesus actually translates to ישו - or, Yeshu. The root of the word is the same and has a similar meaning, but does not translate. to Yehoshua (Joshua). its mostly a difference in tense and speaker/pronoun
Edit: turns out his name actually is Yehoshua bar Yosef. (Bar = son of). He is even recorded in some Jewish texts i believe. A descendant of Noach
Actually, the Hebrew word is Yeshua (not Joshua), and it literally means "I save.". Implying "I, God, save". An interesting note; Yeshua was one of God's names in the old testament. The name is also a prophecy that one day, God, would send a savior to Israel. Of course, today, we now know that savior to be: Yeshua Ha-Mashiach, aka Yeshua the anointed or in greek, Jesus the Christ.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:55:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's almost as if these are fictional stories written hundreds of years after the "fact" and after passing the stories down verbally over generations.
bjb406 · 1 points · Posted at 02:13:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It kind of makes you think about how ridiculous to take the bible at face value as "the word of god". Considering it has been translated from one language to another several times, was heavily edited upon its adoption by the Roman Empire, and again by countless monarchs and pontiffs, and many of the authors are either completely anonymous, were born hundreds of years after the events in question took place, or both.
We do have the original Hebrew. It's only got a few small spelling changes.
SvenDia · 1 points · Posted at 05:25:44 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No we don't. All we have are fragments of copies. The originals don't exist, and it's not until 150-200 years later that we have large fragments. So there's no way of knowing what the language the originals were in, but Greek is more likely.
Wow!. It's like I stepped into an alternate world where no one remembers how to read and comprehend. We do indeed have the original Hebrew. We don't of course have the original copies. No one does. But if you understand Hebrew culture and Jewish culture you would realize that they are meticulous about making exact copies. If you did your homework you would know that the scrolls recovered by Israel are almost exact copies that match modern copies. This is illistrative of the exactness of the copy process. Then, in addition to this, every one of the original churches copied down the books of the bible and sent these copies off to other churches. Over that time more than enough copies were made to duplicate the ancient scriptures several times over.
And yes, these letters were for the most part, in Greek. But translated back to Hebrew they give an almost exact word for word copy back into the original text. And yes, the Hebrew scribes did indeed continue the copy tradition in Hebrew. This is the Hebrew the Dead Sea Scrolls were written in. So we have it in both Ancient Hebrew and Greek. Not only that, the translation style from Greek to Hebrew leaves it's Hebrew style in the Greek. So we can know for certain that the Greek texts were translated into Hebrew. Sorry you misunderstood me. And, once again, we have the original Hebrew that the Greek is based on.
SvenDia · 1 points · Posted at 06:33:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
From Wikipedia, which confirms what I have always heard and does not mention Hebrew as an option at all for the New Testament. "Most biblical scholars adhere to the view that the Greek text of the New Testament is the original version.[10] However, there does exist an alternative view which maintains that it is a translation from an Aramaic original, a position known as Peshitta Primacy (also known in primarily non-scholarly circles as "Aramaic primacy"). Although this view has its adherents, the vast majority of scholars dispute this position citing linguistic, historical, and textual inconsistencies."
The name used in the Greek and transliterated several times over is the exact name used in the Hebrew Old Testament. If you read a bit you would realize this. Study a bit more before using Wiki. It's hardly a scholarly work.
I think you have to see it from a nonliteral, yet historical perspective. You shouldn't take everything in it as literal fact, but you can get a better perspective on things when you consider how they were influenced by historical events.
ZVAZ · 1 points · Posted at 02:47:47 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hopefully someday people realize language is provisional and that 'The Word' biblically is just meant to cement your confidence in words as truths. Words truly only carry provisional value: they help us cross-reference things easier rather than pointing at them, words can be used in an object's absence.
These kinds of articles make me wonder what else the translations could have changed from the original work. Once it's gone from greek, to latin, to german, to english, etc., it might not be anywhere close to the original.Just something to keep in mind.
[deleted] · 0 points · Posted at 22:45:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
nomad80 · 1 points · Posted at 02:17:31 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Anyone with a basic understanding of languages and transliteration across multiples of them, would know that "error" is desperate reaching
Yeshua in Hebrew is a verbal derivative from "to rescue", "to deliver".[8] Among the Jews of the Second Temple Period, the Biblical Aramaic/Hebrew name יֵשׁוּעַ Yeshua‘ was common: the Hebrew Bible mentions several individuals with this name – while also using their full name Joshua. This name is a feature of biblical books written in the post-Exilic period (Ezra, Nehemiah, and Chronicles) and was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, though Haggai and Zechariah prefer the spelling Joshua. Strong's Concordance connects the name יֵשׁוּעַ Yeshua`, in the English form Jeshua (as used in multiple instances in Ezra, Nehemiah, and 1 and 2 Chronicles), with the verb "to deliver" (or, "to rescue").
To talk about english meanings and all that is irrelevant once you go directly to the Hebrew source of the name.
I was hoping someone would look at the link and explain if it's wrong exactly what about it is specifically wrong, though I recognize that may be time consuming. I guess you've sort've done that. While I get your argument, I was curious what merit that guy's argument had.
I don't believe Jesus is a God or holy or anything, but the literature says he was Jewish. So I can explain to you why none of their analysis matters from a Jewish perspective, and logically it shouldn't matter from a Christian perspective.
Here's why: I can tell you that it's irrelevant what his greek name or latin name is because it's just as relevant as his martian name. None of them matter. The only name that matters is his Hebrew name because of the implications it had in Hebrew, the holy language. So the only analysis that should be done is of his Hebrew name and what it means. Everything else is irrelevant.
If I convert his name into Chinese and start talking about the root words that are triggered in the Chinese language, you'd say it's irrelevant. Imagine his name was chi-sah in chinese (making this up). Chi means seed and sah means oyster (making this up). All of these break downs are arbitrary because his name was never supposed to be in Chinese or any other variation. So breaking down what it means in other languages is fun but pointless.
So it's the same with latin or greek. Jesus didn't speak those languages. He knew Hebrew and Aramaic and all of the conversations he had were in Aramaic.
So breaking down the root words of the Gospel in Latin/greek mean nothing since he never intended for you to care about the root word of a Greek word he said since he didn't know Greek/Latin.
Interesting perspective. I agree the only thing thing that matters is what was said in the original language.
There are some who believe that Jesus was a historical figured seized by the Roman's and lifted up as "God" because what he really taught was submission to authority, which worked well for Romans. As you say, everything he taught was in Hebrew and Aramaic. Those who adhere to the aforementioned theory suggest that it wasn't until later, after his teachings were translated into Greek and Latin, when the so-called distortion of his teachings took place, along with the "perversion" of his name into a jab at Christians who couldn't read or speak Latin by calling him a pig. I'm curious how much of that is bullshit. Some of it is convincing because it explains why the Christ myth has so much in common with other myths, they were just ascribing features of other deities to Jesus to make him more of a convincing god figure.
I've read the Gospels but I don't really see how he taught submission to authority as a general rule?
It seems to be a little bit of both. Sometimes he would attack authorities he didn't agree with or who he felt were uninformed. Other times he would bolster authority (obviously God's).
Perhaps they would argue that when they wrote the Gospels in Greek that it was influenced by Jesus so that he intended those words be used. Who knows.
Well, there are a few examples from the gospels, "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's," "Put your sword back in its place. . . for all who draw the sword will die by the sword," and then outside the gospels in the New Testament there's 1 Peter 2:13-25, Romans 13, though I suppose the latter two examples are technically not Jesus' teaching.
It is a completely context-free etymology that pulls an English pronunciation apart into constituent "roots" that have no connection to the purported sources. You could take any word at all and break it into greek-ish sounding roots and then find a backwards meaning.
Who knows what's true in regards to what is referred to on sabbathcovenant.com, but is it illogical to think that there might have been some evil motives behind some Name corruption in general?
[deleted] · -1 points · Posted at 02:30:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus Christ and Mohammed both basically told their followers, "Do not make a religion about me. I'm just a man, same as you. I've had some dreams that I talked about." Their followers did not follow their request, so hundreds of years after, we've killed each other over 2 men who just related their dreams. We all have dreams. Religion is all created by us faulty humans, and have nothing much to do with God.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 11:08:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Bullshit on both counts.
That is your opinion, I gave mine, not interested in an internet argument on this subject. I've heard that God likes to be looked for. my life experience is not yours. That's cool. Live the best life you can, that'll be enough. TLDR: IMO, this life is kindergarten. Share your blocks with others, don't hit others. Do the best you can to be the best person you can be. That's enough to graduate to the 'first grade', whatever that is. Have a nice day. :)
SvenDia · 2 points · Posted at 05:06:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
We make an idol out of fear and call it God.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 11:19:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
We make an idol out of fear and call it God.
Some do exactly that, live in fear. That's due to their believing in their religious leaders, who attempt to instill that fear in others in order to control their 'followers'. Blind trust in your 'leaders', well, you pay that ticket, you takes that ride. Those people are called fanatics, be they athiests or 'believers' in whatever their 'snake oil' leader convinces them.
The Bible and religious leaders can't even get the guys name right yet people still follow and believe in all of it? Wake up people. Jesus isn't even Jesus. 😂
I don't think he understands that an Omnipotent/Omniscient Deity would have complete control over how his "word" was translated, making a mistranslation either intentional, or impossible.
There's translation and transliteration. Names are often transliterated. As I heard recently, Stephen is transliterated from the Greek for "crown". The former head of Apple isn't named "Crown Jobs."
Newgeta · 2 points · Posted at 22:24:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You sure that's accurate? Christ and Yahushua ben Nun might both have a name that's spelled yod-heh-waw-shiyn-ayin. Who do you think is referred to in Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8?
It was spelled out in another post here, but from what I know, there are a few places in the New Testament where Mary and later Jesus himself catch hell for naming her son (or being named) Jesus which refers to the Messiah. Joshua is a different name altogether.
From the current top post in here:
In Hebrew, the names are approximately Yeshu, Yeshua, and Yehoshua. All of these names imply divine deliverance. Which figures carry which names can differ between books, but they are internally consistent.
The Joshua in the verses you refer to is the Old Testament Joshua who ultimately led the Jews to the promised land after Moses died. He's a major figure in Christianity, Judaism and Islam.
As for the Greek issue, the wiki entry on Joshua has this to say
"Jesus" is the English of the Greek transliteration of "Yehoshua" via Latin. In the Septuagint, all instances of the word "Yehoshua" are rendered as "Ἰησοῦς" (Iēsoūs), the closest Greek pronunciation of the Aramaic: ܝܫܘܥ Isho (Hebrew word #3443 in Strong's Concordance, Nehemiah 8:17).[9][10] Thus, in Greek, Joshua is called "Jesus son of Naue" (τοῦ Ναυή) to differentiate him from Jesus Christ.
As for Jesus being chastised for his name, I can't immediately find a source on, probably something I picked up in my 9 years at a Lutheran school. Basically the idea was that the prophecy of Jesus actually included the name and that calling himself the Messiah was blasphemy because he wasn't the Messiah.
If יהושע is a more original name for a book of Joshua Joshua and Nehemiah 8:17 suggests that he was called ישוע centuries later, which seems to be more original? And if Zechariah 6:11-13 contains יהושע, does that not suggest that Christ had that as a birth name even if He is often called ישוע? Perhaps similar to Joshua and Josh or Jacob and Jake?
Have you looked much into something called the Mandela Effect? You might be remembering a verse or a story related to that.
[deleted] · -21 points · Posted at 18:49:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Well... when you're translating the story of the Egyptian god Horus into a new language to perpetuate a myth and create a new religion things happen.
EDIT: Yeah... downvote it you sheep... Jesus is mythology. Deal with it.
Calling people "sheep" really? It's people like you that give atheism a cringeworthy and bad name. You aren't enlightened or a higher thinker because you can easily dismiss someone else's beliefs, that makes you average. Get off your high horse and stop perpetuating stigmas. - LEEVINN (deleted comment)
Well if calling people "sheep" is what you find really dismissive of Christians, I have some bad news for you about the Bible...
[deleted] · 0 points · Posted at 20:44:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Indeed. I'm getting really tired of people thinking that stating a belief for which there is no proof is equal and opposite of stating there's no proof of that belief so it's therefore BS.
Except none of those things Zeitgeist said happened to Horus first really exist in the myths
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 19:48:59 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] · -7 points · Posted at 19:51:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
"Sheeple" really?
No... are you unable to read? At no point did I write sheeple. Don't make shit up... that's the problem in the first place.
It's people like you that give atheism a cringeworthy and bad name.
Who said I was an atheist... I don't believe in your god so I'm an atheist... again, making shit up.
Get off your high horse and stop perpetuating stigmas.
Stop lying to make your point about your mythology being anything but mythology.
[deleted] · 0 points · Posted at 19:59:59 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] · -2 points · Posted at 20:02:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Way to edit your post after the fact.
Don't believe in much of anything apparently.
Iwtmaw · 1 points · Posted at 23:26:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's funny how you call people sheep, yet you're reguritating zeitgeist bullshit that has been debunked time and time again and the creator of the theory himself came out and said he made it up. Baahhhh
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 16:36:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
It's all made up... that's the point.
The bible is a parable.
Iwtmaw · 1 points · Posted at 17:13:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You're not comprehending what I'm laying down.
nomad80 · 0 points · Posted at 02:22:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Another "enlightened" recruit to the intelligentsia after an hour of the Zeitgeist
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 16:38:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Oh my goodness... so, you're saying I was spewing made up bullshit at you? And you have a problem with that?
The bible is a parable.
nomad80 · 0 points · Posted at 16:55:16 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Can't decide if your denseness is funnier, or your ability to get wound up like a looney toons character
[deleted] · 0 points · Posted at 03:56:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Might cut yourself on that edge and get tetanus.
Arknell · -9 points · Posted at 18:34:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So Jesus first screamed the walls of Jericho into dust, then he came back 600 years later and went on about pacifism. Ok. Great. Got it. Still gonna toucha the fishy.
Another example of how wrong most religious shit people believe in is. It's like the exercise teachers have children participate in by telling the first kid in a line of kids a sentence and ask them to pass it on. By the last kid, it's not even close to what she said to the first kid. Lol
I still think it's like the whole jehova, yahweh, jenova, sephiroth mispronunciation deal. Really, he was way too high, and he was really Greek(in order to use it's all Greek to me later as a pun in life), as Zeus. And no one would ever talk to Zeus, they would just say Hey, and Zeus would go get high and fuck whatever. hint hint, cough cough. So Hazeus, or Chris(topher), "Joseph Jr." was in the desert and found some rue or something(though someone may look up and find that rue does not grow in that region) started having an induced all in one multiple personality dissociation schizophrenic time trip that overlapped everything, and became so scatterbrained and mistranslated that we have too many versions of the "original text" that was really Zeus' over critical analyzing of his own writings, so he "deleted" them, and what we have is one of many copy and paste "guidelines" redefined by anyone channeling words, to which be redefine as "the" or "thee" word by those seeking reform and manipulation of the masses, especially those attending masses. Anyways, while people were trying to figure out what was going on with Chris, or Zeus, people tried talking with him when he was out of his mind, but a couple of them kept saying the perfect thing at the wrong time for his mind, maybe in hindsight, positive for growth. Saint Jimi, once said Hey Joe, after mishearing someone go on and say "Hey Zeus" Really fast, and with an accent, mind you, and maybe then, that's how this got started. God never really knew their name, and every name they called them didn't feel right to "God" especially "God", and then in a strange irony, even nature couldn't comprehend "God" and you get the proverbial fall from heaven, and "God" became Satan. Micheal the name is rhetorically asked, He who is like God?, and having no founding for his life as an alien or military science experiment of MkUltra type mishap stricken with a V for Vendetta plotline mixed in with a lot of cheesy references to seemingly irrelevant music from "past" music eras... because time clearly becomes irrelevant, and Zeus winds up sobering up to face John Connor in the next Terminator movie after the next Terminator movie to fit into this whole shebang.
PC_OOS · 0 points · Posted at 08:15:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
And what is more infinite than nothing?!?
Seriously... everything else has defined limits even simply a start/beginning...aka the universe->Big Bang so while it's size may or may not be finite, we know there is likely a "leading edge" of the universe otherwise paradox..
Edit- yes mathematically 0 is nothing/absence I guess, though anything quantifiable has substance I might argue; I guess I was speaking from a philosophical/semantic perspective; and playing off -zero- being an ellipse..
[deleted] · 12 points · Posted at 21:41:14 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
How edgy of you.
[deleted] · -10 points · Posted at 22:05:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
How hipster and trendy of you to use a lame neckbeard term to express... nothing.
[deleted] · 10 points · Posted at 22:44:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hipster, trendy, lame, and neckbeard at the same time? Interesting.
[deleted] · -5 points · Posted at 22:51:43 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
How edgy of you
[deleted] · 8 points · Posted at 02:16:11 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I feel like you're think you're being clever, but you aren't. Someone disagreeing with you isn't edgy. Saying you'd strangler your own mother if you shared the name with the messiah is the epitome of edge.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:00:49 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So piece of food stuck in your throat: you're strangling?
And there is a difference between a blood choke and an air choke. One kills, one merely puts someone in an unconscious state. And then strangling is different as well. It is used, I'm not condoning, as a sexual enhancement.
Transliterated his name in Hebrew is YAHUSHA. I've found that researching PALEO-HEBREW is the best way to figure out how to pronounce any name in the bible. Modern Hebrew w/ dialects can lead people in many directions and into arguments.
It took a couple of books and a couple of videos and multiple conversations with people who believe in both names for me to be absolutely comfortable with saying that the Messiahs name is YAHUSHA(Yahuah is Salvation) vs Yahushua(Yahuah cries out).
I might be far from a Hebrew expert, but if I had to guess at a most accurate transliteration for those? Maybe Hushua and Yesha and Shua. How would you transliterate them and also יהושוע if Yahushua ben Nun is also called a six letter name with two waw/vav in Deuteronomy 3:21 and Judges 2:7?
I am far from a Hebrew expert as well so no biggie :]. I would transliterate them as Husha, Yasha, and Shua using paleo-hebrew. For יהושוע I would say Yahushua and for יהושע I would say Yahusha, despite both of those names being Joshua in english. I would say that יהושוע (Yahushua) from Deuteronomy/Judges is not the messiah.
If הושע is translated into Greek as Ωσηέ, doesn't that suggest that Hushua is closer than Husha?
What does it mean for us if יהושע ben Nun is also called יהושוע? If it's an alternative spelling of the same name, does that not suggest they both contain four syllables?
that's the thing tho, in my mind, why would we need to go to greek to find the proper transliteration for something in hebrew? i think if we need to find any proper transliteration we should be going as far back in time and use paleo-hebrew because that's what came first. Modern hebrew is yiddish so for us to use anything else besides paleo-hebrew, to me, kinda seems like we're walking away from the source that has the answers we seek. יהושוע and יהושע are two different people in my eyes and those names don't have the same syllables to me.
Does Paleo Hebrew suggest Husha is a better transliteration of הושע than Hushua? How so, if so? A Greek transliteration might be far from an end of discussion solution to a question of what is a most proper English transliteration of it and at least help shed some light on how LXX translators thought it was pronounced though.
Who do you think is referred to in Deuteronomy 3:21 and Judges 2:7?
DEUT 3:21“And I commanded Yehoshua(written יהושוע In the Tanakh) at that time, saying, ‘Your eyes have seen all that יהוה your Elohim has done to these two sovereigns. יהוה does the same to all the reigns which you are passing over."
Judges 2:7 "And the people served יהוה all the days of Yehoshua(written יהושע in Tanahk), and all the days of the elders who outlived Yehoshua(written יהושוע In the Tanakh), who had seen all the great works of יהוה which He had done for Yisra’ĕl."
By your question of who this is referring to are you asking me if I think that's the messiah? I am going to say no if that's the question. Just because another man has the same name as the messiah doesn't mean he's the messiah. There were probably hundreds of people living in those days with the name Joshua spelled either way, don't you think?
I would say yes to paleo being easier for pronunciation purposes because like i said earlier modern hebrew has yiddish all mixed in there as you can see from how the ISR transliterated Joshuas name using YEHO for יהו. We have to use everything that's at our disposal to come up with answers that makes sense to us because even guides that people swear on is the truth are wrong sometimes like the strongs concordance(Joshua H3091 Yehoshua ). There's a lot to use in there to find what's right but i won't agree with everything that's in there. Just how i'll even say that what i'm saying isn't absolutely correct, it's just where i'm at with information at the moment.
To me ישע is Yasha and שוע is Shua so it only makes logical sense to me that when i see Joshua's name spelled two different ways I'd pronounce them two different ways.
I might have came across wrong. Do you think Yahushua ben Nun is referred to in Deuteronomy 3:21 and Judges 2:7? If so and yet He is called a name with an extra waw/vav in those, do you have any theory as to why?
What's not possible, but what if a) there were two scribal errors or b) that was an alternative spelling of the same name that included an extra waw/vav or c) both? Any guess out of those yourself or a Lurkin McLurk letter d option? ;) Wouldn't it be nice to buy a complete Dead Sea Scroll collection?
That would be nice :] I was able to see the exhibit when it came through my area with my wife. I really liked seeing the artifacts and the different kinds of people having interest in the scrolls. oh man, those are good, I would throw in d) it was done on purpose to mess with us lol
m0nde · -1 points · Posted at 22:32:20 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I mean... if you wrote my English name in Spanish, it wouldn't change what my name actually is. I'm pretty sure a Jew born in Jerusalem would have been named in Hebrew.
My aunt, uncle and cousins live in Israel and my cousin was named Yeshua. My great uncle, who is a rabbi, was a little sour that they named a baby Jesus's name.
Yahushua is believed to be Jesus' real name; however, Yahshua is Joshua in Hebrew. Yeah, we probably spell Jesus' name wrong due to translation, but I believe that what matters is we identify that name with person/being Jesus. Like if you call me Carlo but my name is Charles, but you knew you were talking to me, that's what matters.
A Must read is Christopher Moore's 'Lamb' a satirical story of the life of christ and his adventures as told by his lifelong best pal Eli, who is called Biff. It's a fucking hilarious mingling of fiction and fiction.
This isn't really true considering Jesus was first mentioned in the New Testament which was originally Greek unlike the Old Testament. His name in Greek is Phonetically very close to Jesus, just more like spanish Jesus, Hesus.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 02:19:36 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes, his name was written with the Greek and Latin version, but his actual name was likely Yeshua or something of the sort.
Jesus, Mohamed and Buddha never existed. All were invented to control the masses. If the masses realized there was no "afterlife" we would have nothing but chaos.
You think He's blasphemously referred to by Christ rejecting Jews in the Talmud and yet did not exist?
Do you think there were enough Christians around in 64 AD for a massive Italian Peninsula fire to be blamed on them? What would it take to convince a huge multitude of people to believe an imaginary person walked around a few decades prior?
Newgeta · -1 points · Posted at 23:12:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The same thing it takes for a multitude of people to thing an invisible wizard in the sky does, a person or group of people, who wanted control.
What control would a Christ rejecting Jew get by referring to Christ in the Talmud?
If you think the big conspiracy is Pro-Christ and Pro-Book of Genesis, then who controls mainstream media and education and who dropped the ball in the 20th century? Did a Christian put novus ordo seclorum on dollars bills next to occultic symbolism associated with freemasonry and Egypt?
There might be a lot of corruption and hypocrisy in a mainstream Christian Church, but what should be held against Christ personally?
Newgeta · -2 points · Posted at 23:36:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think so yes, if you really were the incarnate son of an almighty god, you would be able to instantly stop any and all atrocities that humans committed in your name with just a thought.
I would blame anyone who could save a little kid from getting raped with a thought but didnt.
Should there be an angelic police force standing around not allowing anyone to do anything that's wrong? There might be a wheat and tares situation currently that makes it less than ideal long term whether that's the eventual answer or not.
On a related note?: Have you read much about quantum physics and Schrodinger's cat and a Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser experiment? How about we not use those as an excuse to refrain from stepping in for someone who is being hurt in an evil way, but who even knows what another is actually experiencing from a personal point of view?
Newgeta · 1 points · Posted at 00:24:43 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
A diving omniscient being wouldn't need to stand around, it wouldnt need an angelic force, by its own omnipotence it would just know.
Back to your original question, ill repeat my answer, yes, i would blame ANY being for not saving little kids from being raped.
I read about phase mechanics in college, its deep stuff, coexisting quantum states ect... I'm not quite smart enough to understand it at more than like an atmospheric level, why do you ask?
I wasn't meaning to imply the Creator would only see an evil act with angels standing around and came across wrong maybe. Even if all is seen, what is the best response to something happening? Should everyone drop dead as soon as they do evil?
"5:8 If thou seest the oppression of the poor, and violent perverting of judgment and justice in a province, marvel not at the matter: for he that is higher than the highest regardeth; and there be higher than they."
Ecclesiastes 5:8 (RNKJV)
"13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."
Matthew 13:24-30 (RNKJV)
Perhaps that can help explain a delay and killing off tares asap can end up harming wheat. Who knows exact motivations behind everything that has occurred and is occurring, but should we really criticise the Creator if the Creator sees a much bigger picture and much more clearly than we do? There might even be quantum immortality related ideas and multiple timeline related ideas and reincarnated justice related ideas and so on that could possibly come into play when it comes to explaining why things happen.
Newgeta · 1 points · Posted at 13:38:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I see, there might be, you might be right.
Conversely, its been shown time and time again in OUR reality, the most simple explanation is the correct one.
There has never, EVER, not even once, been a documented, pier reviewed, reproduce able answer of "magic" to any question.
We can agree to disagree here but I just wanted to give you the answer of yes, I would blame any deity if they let old men stick their penai into unwilling children, any deity that allows that is not worthy of praise anyway.
Could it be that the Creator sees a bigger picture than you and sees more clearly than you and the ideal solution involves what is already occurring? Who even knows what another is experiencing from their own perspective if you consider Schrodinger's cat and a Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser experiment?
Newgeta · 1 points · Posted at 12:24:20 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
It could be yes, even it it is, but hes STILL not deserving of my praise if he lets an old wrinkly penis ejaculate in in an unwilling child's asshole.
Again it loops back to the simple answer is the correct one, either the deity lets it happen, or the deity is a fake, I would blame them either way.
Have you experienced that personally? Do you even know who really has from their own perspective if you consider Schrodinger's cat and a Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser experiment?
Newgeta · 1 points · Posted at 12:35:38 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
How bout don't doubt that you are loved and cared about and that there is a Righteous Judge and things will be changing for the better?
You might have been completely innocent, but could it be that you did something in a previous life that helped lead to what happened? That might be way off base, but how many possibilities are there that could help explain why things happen if we see less than .0000000001% of all there is to see? Is a best course of action not to avoid criticising the Creator while understanding a speck of what there is to understand?
Newgeta · 1 points · Posted at 12:57:56 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nah, there is no hard evidence, zero, none, zip.
If there was any, I mean ANY, that stood up to peer review and could be reproduced at will, then ok MAYBE, but we all know how that goes.
If you mean zero hard evidence for reincarnation, what would theoretically be hard evidence for that?
If you mean zero hard evidence for some unknown truth in general that helps explain why things happen, what would theoretically be hard evidence for that?
Newgeta · 1 points · Posted at 22:44:55 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm not dealing with theoretical anything.
I'm dealing an answer to the question "would I blame said deity" (assuming it was real), and the answer was "Yes, damn right I would!"
In the words of treebeard, "A wizard should know better!"
You think He's blasphemously referred to by Christ rejecting Jews in the Talmud and yet did not exist?
Do you think there were enough Christians around in 64 AD for a massive Italian Peninsula fire to be blamed on them? What would it take to convince a huge multitude of people to believe an imaginary person walked around a few decades prior?
I might have came across wrong and been looking for common ground more than trying to find something to point and laugh at you about. Is there anything you don't stand by a mainstream narrative on when it comes to history?
What would you do if WWIII was looking imminent and then greys or tall blonde nordics showed up and claimed to be benevolent primate evolving aliens or and savior elohim or both?
I tried to reverse translate this in google translate. Took Jesus in English translated to Latin then to Greek then to Hebrew, then copied the hebrew word that came up and translated from hebrew to english. Didnt work, came out Jesus. I trust Google. Long live Jesus.
well, yhwh and yahweh are for jesus, and jehova is a different translation of yhwh, and yeshua is a different variation of joshua. so of all the ones i listed, that only leaves emanuel. which i'm not sure about.
204777 · 1 points · Posted at 17:58:03 on December 12, 2016 · (Permalink)
So I've been wondering about this myself for a couple years now. Is there seriously no record of him except for a book written hundreds of years after his life? That's not exactly a primary source. I have no doubt he was a real man, but the Jesus from the Bible, performing miracles etc.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 04:40:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The New Testament wasn't written hundreds of years after Jesus existed. Check out Richard Bauckham's, Jesus and the Eyewitnesses. Bauckham is a NT scholar over in the UK. For someone more skeptical (who still does not doubt Jesus' existence or the ultimate historical reliability of the Gospels to tell us things about Jesus), look into Bart Ehrman's work disproving Jesus mythicism.
The Romans were great note takers. We have so many records of theirs still around. Seemingly menial stuff like records owed to people and work shifts. Not one mention of Jesus from the Romans. In fact the first writing of Jesus are dated nearly 400 years after his "death" . In fact The Romans were great note takers. We have so many records of theirs still around. Seemingly menial stuff like records owed to people and work shifts. Not one mention of Jesus from the Romans. In fact the first writing of Jesus are dated nearly 400 years after his "death" . I view Jesus like a comic book character. Different people wanted to write a story of a cool guy with superpowers so they stole stories from other religions to make a super bad ass. Jesus wasn't the first god to have a virgin birth, or a resurrection and the son references are almost certainly referring to the sun God Ra. Keep looking, you are on the right path. I grew up a believer my first 18 years and it took a long time to shake the churches indoctrination but over time things just didn't add up to the point where I was ready to just be my own person. Tldr Jesus was a comic book character for his time and no records exhaust of him.
I know Hebrew, as my ancestors were killed and raped by sick Christian monsters. If you are Christian, you live a lie that people continuously make up every century. Your religion created many nations in the Eastern Hemisphere, and those are all based on lies. you are nations that are based on lies to get heretics to leave countries.
it has been literally 2000 years since my family has had more than three lineages that survived thanks to Christians, Muslims, and Khans. I have 2 family members, and people deny that 20 people in my family were killed in gruesome ways. how were the 1900s for you Mark?
The 1900's? Well let me see - on my mothers side I'm part American Indian, and part Polish/ Czechoslovakian (sp?). The AmerInd side was pretty much wiped out prior to the 1800 (Or shuffled onto reservations). The Polish side Immigrated to the US in just prior to WWII, the ones who stayed behind were pretty much wiped out by the Germans. The documentation is rather sketchy as you might understand.
On my fathers side I'm English and Irish, who immigrated as a result of the Irish Potato famine in the late 1800's/ early 1900's.
Everyone has shit happen to their family. Why not start hating on the Egyptians? The Pharoahs were doing a number on the Hebrews long before Christ, Mohammed or Ghengis Khan ever showed on the scene. I am truly sorry for your family's history and the hate that you carry.
Proving that such fella by the name Jesus didnt walk the earth around 2000 years ago....
And thanks for pointing out the God and Christ are not NAMES, they are TITLES!!!
Also proves that the only name of the creator is Yahweh! YHWH .....
You think He's blasphemously referred to by Christ rejecting Jews in the Talmud and yet did not exist?
Do you think there were enough Christians around in 64 AD for a massive Italian Peninsula fire to be blamed on them? What would it take to convince a huge multitude of people to believe an imaginary person walked around a few decades prior?
As an agnostic/atheist, that's bullshit. He wasn't the son of some all-powerful sky father, but there's evidence that he at least was a person.
SvenDia · 0 points · Posted at 05:14:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not a lot actually. The Gospels were written 50-60 years later. The earliest books of the New Testament are attributed to Paul, about 20-25 years later, and he never met, nor ever refers to, a flesh and blood Jesus. But he had a vision, so we're supposed to believe him. In the earliest Gospel, Mark, there is no resurrection and no virgin birth. The end of Mark that does include a resurrection, was added much later.
In the earliest Gospel, Mark, there is no resurrection and no virgin birth. The end of Mark that does include a resurrection, was added much later.
This part, at least, is extremely irrelevant. One does not have to be the product of a virgin birth, or resurrected, to qualify as 'a person'. In fact, all of it is irrelevant, because I'm talking about actual evidence, not 'evidence in the Bible'.
[deleted] · -1 points · Posted at 04:52:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You're a fucking idiot if you actually believe that.
Lol but people have trouble believing in chemtrails, yeah okay dude, get a fucking clue.
Saved comment
[deleted] · 4242 points · Posted at 19:59:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
For those who didn't read the article, it explains that the Hebrew for Jesus and Joshua are variations of each other, but not quite identical names. If Jesus becomes Joshua, Joshua should become Jehoshua or something similar.
In Hebrew, the names are approximately Yeshu, Yeshua, and Yehoshua. All of these names imply divine deliverance. Which figures carry which names can differ between books, but they are internally consistent.
The rest of the explanation (how we got the 's' on the end from greek and latin) is all accurate.
Shalashashka · 1588 points · Posted at 21:50:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Why don't we just call him by whatever people who knew him called him? As in the exact pronunciation. Why "translate" the name?
InZomnia365 · 1496 points · Posted at 22:08:01 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Why do we translate country and city names?
Because linguistics is weird, words and names dont universally "work" in all languages.
cannibalAJS · 1328 points · Posted at 22:23:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
But a lot of them do. Why the fuck do we call it Japan when they call themselves Nippon?
PM_ME_YOUR_BREWS · 1058 points · Posted at 22:27:22 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The English word for Japan came from early trade routes. The word stems from a Malay word Jepang, which was brought over to the UK by some lovely Portuguese folks. It was first seen in English in 1577 as Giapan.
doormatt26 · 602 points · Posted at 22:39:03 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
This is the source of a lot of names in linguistic history. Some group hears about a place or person or thing second- or third- hand, and that translation becomes commonplace before the real origin or source of the name becomes clear.
lavalampmaster · 538 points · Posted at 22:45:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yup, lots of native American tribes' English names are actually insulting names given by neighboring tribes.
"Sioux" is Ojibwe for "little snakes" and "Apache" is (possibly, there are other hypotheses) a neighboring tribe's word for "the enemy".
[deleted] · 108 points · Posted at 00:30:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Eskimo means "eaters of raw flesh"
They call themselves Inuits
walkalong · 9 points · Posted at 03:24:16 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm pretty sure Eskimo and Inuit do not refer to the same groups of people. Kind of like a rectangle vs square kind of situation or something? I'm not positive though.
Unclesnots · 28 points · Posted at 03:34:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Same people, but Eskimo is considered derogatory in Canada and Greenland, but it's acceotable in Alaska. "Eskimo" also includes an Alaskan group that does not consider themselves "Inuit".
walkalong · 2 points · Posted at 03:52:31 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I guess that's what I meant with the rectangle/square thing. I didn't know that Eskimo was derogatory in Canada, so that's good to know. I just know that in Alaska, not all Eskimos "call themselves Inuits" as the comment I replied to said, because the Yupik people aren't Inuit. Or at least that's how it was 20 years ago when my mom lived up there (at least that's how I understood what she told me).
pipsdontsqueak · 2 points · Posted at 04:52:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Just say Native unless you know specifically. Best and safest route.
teewat · 0 points · Posted at 08:07:11 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
In Canada at least, referring to an Inuit as a Native would be seen as insensitive to derogatory.
in_time_for_supper_x · 2 points · Posted at 13:11:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Dammit, you just can't win. Say any of those labels and someone will feel offended.
Orphic_Thrench · 11 points · Posted at 03:54:30 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Eskimo was the name given to the Inuit by a different native group (I want to say Iroquois? They were eastern, anyway). In Canada (and Greenland) the far arctic people are all Inuit, so they take offense to the word Eskimo. In Alaska only some are Inuit, so lacking a more suitable word to refer to all (three?) groups there, they use the word Eskimo to include everyone.
roganth · 8 points · Posted at 03:36:33 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not all Eskimos are Innuit. It is like if Chinese found the word Asian to be insulting and we must use Chinese instead of Asian. We then would need to say Japanese are Chinese, Indians are Chinese.
idio3 · 2 points · Posted at 04:41:29 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Kind of. Inuit refers to a more exclusive mostly Canadian group of people. Eskimo is a wider grouping of circumpolar population.
[deleted] · -2 points · Posted at 13:31:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Look it up then jackass
Some groups in USA refer to themselves as Eskimo.
idio3 · 1 points · Posted at 04:39:16 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
There is an ethnolinguistic group called "Samoyedic People" in the north of Russia. The problem with that name is that it means "self-eater" in Russian. Their official name was thus changed during the more politically correct Soviet times, but the article is still there in English wikipedia :).
[deleted] · 75 points · Posted at 00:35:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You probably know this but for others, the "sioux" (pronounced 'sue') people actually call themselves Lakota
[deleted] · 14 points · Posted at 04:07:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
spockspeare · 3 points · Posted at 04:37:25 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
http://etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=sioux Sioux
group of North American Indian tribes, 1761, from North American French, short for Nadouessioux, sometimes said to be from Ojibway (Algonquian) Natowessiwak (plural), literally "little snakes," from nadowe "Iroquois" (literally "big snakes"). Another explanation traces it to early Ottawa (Algonquian) singular /na:towe:ssi/ (plural /na:towe:ssiwak/) "Sioux," apparently from a verb meaning "to speak a foreign language" [Bright]. In either case, a name given by their neighbors; the people's name for themselves is Dakota.
wreckingballheart · 3 points · Posted at 07:20:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nothing in your links proves anything about what they call themselves currently.
spockspeare · 1 points · Posted at 02:12:08 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wasn't intended to. They could call themselves Belgians for all it matters.
wreckingballheart · 2 points · Posted at 02:40:33 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
What exactly is your point then?
spockspeare · 1 points · Posted at 02:44:10 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Etymology and information. Not everything has to be an attack.
wreckingballheart · 6 points · Posted at 04:08:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Only some of the Sioux are Lakota. The major modern divisions are Lakota, Nakota, and Dakota, with things further sub-divided by location and then by tribe.
spockspeare · 1 points · Posted at 04:38:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nakota, Lakota, and Dakota all link here:
http://etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=nakota
Dakota
1809, name of a group of native peoples from the Plains states speaking a Siouan language, from Dakota dakhota "friendly" (the name often is translated as "allies"). Recorded by Lewis and Clark (1804) as Dar co tar; in western dialects of the Teton subgroup, Lakota, Lakhota; in Assiniboine dialect, Nakota, Nakhota.
wreckingballheart · 3 points · Posted at 04:50:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm not disagreeing that they're all linked, just pointing out that not all Sioux are going to call themselves Lakota.
eddmario · 376 points · Posted at 22:46:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And "Des Moines" means "shitheads"
[deleted] · 332 points · Posted at 23:18:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And Milwaukee, pronounced "mill-e-wah-que" which is Algonquin for "the good land."
Spicy-Coleslaw · 147 points · Posted at 00:01:16 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
WE'RE NOT WORTHY! WE'RE NOT WORTHY!
Rob_T_Firefly · 76 points · Posted at 00:19:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I was not aware of that.
TheNumberJ · 7 points · Posted at 01:29:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Can this guy party or what!
spockspeare · 1 points · Posted at 04:30:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You have to wonder if somehow you were or were not worthy of knowing it.
GBreezy · 25 points · Posted at 23:52:11 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I loved listening to his radio show because showed that this is actually how he is in real life.
just_this_oncenow · 6 points · Posted at 00:35:18 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
☝ Does this guy know how to party, or what? Huhhh!?
Imunown · 3 points · Posted at 00:27:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Were the Algonquin aware they were in Milwaukee when they named it?
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 00:30:44 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh great. I'm in Delaware.
SoyMurcielago · 3 points · Posted at 01:04:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Makes sense to me. I really like Milwaukee
phorevergrateful · 3 points · Posted at 02:33:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I find it interesting that Milwaukee is the only major US city to elect 3 socialist mayors
CETERIS_PARABOLA · 2 points · Posted at 05:26:00 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Totally. It's why we have so many green spaces and parks, can't thank them enough for some of the good they did.
El_Proctopus · 3 points · Posted at 05:11:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I live in a town called Chemung. I once asked a descendant of the native tribe what exactly it meant, and he said that the proper pronunciation is not "Shuh-mung" but "Sha-mook," which means "Big Horn" (after a mastodon horn that was found in the river where the village was founded). Our butchered pronunciation apparently means "smelly place," or something along those lines.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 00:01:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
excalibur812 · 2 points · Posted at 02:52:08 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Underrated post
zerton · 2 points · Posted at 00:34:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Chicago = Stinky River
ticktockaudemars · 1 points · Posted at 00:24:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
the Champagne of lands.
(edit:spelling)
PM_ME_YOUR_BREWS · 2 points · Posted at 00:26:18 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Champagne
ticktockaudemars · 2 points · Posted at 00:30:33 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
fixed. username checks out, thanks bud.
PM_ME_YOUR_BREWS · 2 points · Posted at 14:58:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I feel like audemars and champagne go together, ya know?
Sinanovski · 1 points · Posted at 01:52:00 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
yeah, good land of beer.
keepcrazy · 1 points · Posted at 05:19:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Dodged a bullet there... it could've meant "land of shitty cheese"
TeddysBigStick · 1 points · Posted at 06:47:29 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Still not as good as Chicago and it's wild onions.
blartifast · -1 points · Posted at 23:25:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's also elected three Socialist mayors.
_Aladdin_ · 1 points · Posted at 23:54:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
ok
doormatt26 · 1 points · Posted at 00:40:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
cool story bro
[deleted] · 81 points · Posted at 23:08:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
deleted What is this?
carlitor · 2 points · Posted at 03:19:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Moine is definitely monk. If you're really pushing it it could be deez buttz, as moine in Quebec is sometimes used to mean butt (mostly in the expression "se pogner le moine" which is a variation on "se pogner le cul" which means doing nothing, dicking around) .
spockspeare · 1 points · Posted at 04:34:17 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
"punching the monk"
rofl
spockspeare · 1 points · Posted at 04:32:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
plus ou moins: more or less
plus ou moines: more or monks
I don't know enough French to know how a native speaker would discern these two words in a sentence, or if they're simply homophones.
RuSsIaKiLlZ4tHeLuLz · 89 points · Posted at 22:57:31 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
All because they didn't want the French to trade with the "shitheads" on the other side of the river. The French just wanted to know the name of the river. Source: am couch historian.
arnorath · 123 points · Posted at 23:24:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
“The forest of Skund was indeed enchanted, which was nothing unusual on the Disc, and was also the only forest in the whole universe to be called -- in the local language -- Your Finger You Fool, which was the literal meaning of the word Skund.
The reason for this is regrettably all too common. When the first explorers from the warm lands around the Circle Sea travelled into the chilly hinterland they filled in the blank spaces on their maps by grabbing the nearest native, pointing at some distant landmark, speaking very clearly in a loud voice, and writing down whatever the bemused man told them. Thus were immortalised in generations of atlases such geographical oddities as Just A Mountain, I Don't Know, What? and, of course, Your Finger You Fool."
Lonely_Kobold · 5 points · Posted at 03:00:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sad I had to travel this far in for a Pratchett quote.
RolandLovecraft · 3 points · Posted at 01:58:00 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Whats that from? Very Douglas Adams-esque. I like it.
[deleted] · 9 points · Posted at 02:12:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
Auditor_of_Reality · 10 points · Posted at 02:19:16 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The Light Fantastic
2fhqwhgads1cup · 1 points · Posted at 13:49:25 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think it is in the last continent as well...
KapiTod · 2 points · Posted at 00:48:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Mzungu" is the Swahili term for a White person, translating as "those who wander aimlessly". The term came into use around the time European explorers started penetrating east Africa.
daRcmushroom · 2 points · Posted at 02:04:24 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sauce?
Auditor_of_Reality · 8 points · Posted at 02:21:02 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The Light Fantastic, by Terry Pratchett. Part of the Discworld series, which I highly recommend.
r/discworld
HK_1030 · 2 points · Posted at 03:12:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Discworld ftw!
Thedarkhunt · 13 points · Posted at 23:07:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, des moines means "monks"; not "shitheads".
RuSsIaKiLlZ4tHeLuLz · 5 points · Posted at 23:43:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
In French yes, but the word that was said by the natives translated means "shitheads" the French thought the natives were trying to say "des moines"
joshmanders · 1 points · Posted at 01:00:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Dubuquian here, they are shitheads.
JangWolly · 3 points · Posted at 00:13:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I nominate /u/RuSsIaKiLlZ4tHeLuLz for an AMA about the history of couches.
RuSsIaKiLlZ4tHeLuLz · 2 points · Posted at 21:29:04 on December 11, 2016 · (Permalink)
Im more downs for this than a short bus on it's way to an extra chromosome convention
kory5623 · 2 points · Posted at 00:12:29 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
When and by whom were recliners invented?
RuSsIaKiLlZ4tHeLuLz · 2 points · Posted at 21:38:08 on December 11, 2016 · (Permalink)
Recliners were invented by the great General Maxus Relaxus in the late Roman Empire. Maxus was known for his distaste of eating whilst sitting upright. He also did not care for the mess that was made when he would eat in bed. So Maxus came up with a brilliant compromise. Design something with the comfort of a bed but with less mess like sitting upright. He soon discovered that he could confine his mess to his gut area. Funny thing is Maxus didnt stop inventing there. He realized his desire to have his feet elevated while eating so he would order Trojan slaves to get on all fours so he could prop his feet on their back. Thus the ottoman was created.
NRMusicProject · 7 points · Posted at 23:30:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And San Diego is of course German for a whale’s vagina.
ToIA · 3 points · Posted at 23:17:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
As an Iowan...
Yeah, probably.
tadsteinberger · 2 points · Posted at 02:11:08 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I would've assumed "Iowa City" translated to "shitheads" go state...
iDidAcidOnce · 2 points · Posted at 23:16:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You know? I looked this up, and could barely find much on it.
Most places I went to said it means "River of the Monks". Only a few sources mentioned the "shitface" comment, and they weren't very strong sources, just theories.
Does anyone have anything to back this up? It'd be funny if true.
Readeandrew · 2 points · Posted at 23:29:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Or alternatively, monks.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 23:54:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Uh...no....Des Moines is French, meaning "of the monks," referring to the river.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:06:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Good to know somethings never change.
dfschmidt · 1 points · Posted at 23:38:50 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And the display of the middle finger salute means "Peace among worlds."
inserthumourousname · 1 points · Posted at 23:40:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
"San Diego" means "a whales vagina"
pj2d2 · 1 points · Posted at 23:42:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
What does San Diego mean?
expendablethoughts · 1 points · Posted at 00:27:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Basically "Some Monks" in French.
Lord_Iggy · 1 points · Posted at 00:45:56 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
'Des Moines' is French for 'Of the Monks'.
ScooterManCR · 1 points · Posted at 02:03:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
To be fair, Des Moines Iowa is full of shitheads.
ReddEquinox · 1 points · Posted at 02:43:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Des Merdes
things_4_ants · 1 points · Posted at 02:53:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Seems accurate...
ilovebeaker · 1 points · Posted at 03:21:53 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Some Monks, from the French
igvig · 1 points · Posted at 04:02:44 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Actually, "of the Monks", in French
McGuineaRI · 1 points · Posted at 04:44:30 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
And Connecticut, "Land of the Cunt People"
Aeirsoner · 1 points · Posted at 13:05:44 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
... but. I live in Des Moines....
ImEnhanced · 4 points · Posted at 23:04:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
IM LEARNING SO MUCH!!
jew_jitsu · 2 points · Posted at 00:43:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Didn't native Americans originally get called indians because they looked similar in appearance to Indians?
ohitsasnaake · 5 points · Posted at 01:14:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
According to the usual story at least, it was because Columbus thought he had arrived in India. His revolutionary idea wasn't that the Earth would be round, but the false idea that it would be much smaller than it really was, which would allow him to sail over the Atlantic to India.
[deleted] · 6 points · Posted at 01:22:49 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
He thought he could sail to the east indies- meaning the Phillipines.
mashkawizii · 2 points · Posted at 01:01:49 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sioux is not ojibwe for little snakes.
Valianttheywere · 2 points · Posted at 02:10:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Amongst the australian aboriginal tribes are the unusual: gaj-alivia and andil-jaugwa. Oj- looks phonetically similar to Gaj-. The Gaj (Oj) will have a common origin somewhere in Asia.
Time frame for vowel development:
U: -100,000 yrs A: early stone age-neolithic transition O: -40,000 yrs arrival of modern humans in asia (ng phonetic). E: post neolithic I: -18,000 yrs bronze age
suburbiaresident · 2 points · Posted at 03:02:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
In actual Apache, we call ourselves "Nnee" (pronounced NN-neh)
lavalampmaster · 3 points · Posted at 03:33:08 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I did not know that!
Is it terrible that I interpreted NN-neh as sounding like Larry David saying "Nnn..nah."
deafsound · 2 points · Posted at 03:42:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I just watched the movie Arrival last night, and not to be an ad for it, but how words/meanings are translated plays an integral role in the movie. It is very good worth watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFMo3UJ4B4g
Brinner · 3 points · Posted at 23:02:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And 'Idaho' is a fake native word made up by an eccentric lobbyist
Odinswolf · 1 points · Posted at 23:52:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I believe Iroquois is believed to be similar, possibly a French translation of a Algonquin word meaning something like "black vipers".
Hollowsong · 1 points · Posted at 00:43:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I wonder if people would be so proud of their native American name if they knew...
davyk11 · 1 points · Posted at 01:40:53 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
India had this done to them too Mumbai/Bombay still makes little to no sense how they got that name. But India decided they had enough their colonizer's shit and decided to change it back.
AwesomelyHumble · 1 points · Posted at 01:43:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Isn't the origin of the name 'China' unknown?
dangerbird2 · 2 points · Posted at 03:53:18 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
No. It's name comes from the Qin Dynasty, which united the warring states of China under its first historical emperor. The autonym Zhōngguó originates with the Western Zhou state founded around 1000 BC.
Terbear0711 · 1 points · Posted at 04:01:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Roughly translated.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 04:59:00 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Please tell me "little snakes" is the Native American euphemism for little dicks
observeandretort · 1 points · Posted at 05:03:17 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Actually the Sioux where called "Bwan" by the Ojibwe. Source: I'm Ojibwe.
ColonParentheses · 1 points · Posted at 07:04:33 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Canada" comes from the Iroquois word "Kanata", which means "city" or "village".
xenothaulus · -1 points · Posted at 00:12:08 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
And Cheyenne is from the French le chien which means dog.
BobisOnlyBob · 5 points · Posted at 01:50:55 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's a popular etymology but it's heavily debated and there's quite a few possible etymologies.
GuessImStuckWithThis · 38 points · Posted at 23:31:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
This doesn't just apply to countries, bit also new phenomenon and new objects, animals etc.
A fascinating example is Typhoon, which comes from the southern Chinese pronunciation: Dai Feng (big wind)... However when this weather was first described in the West people in Europe assumed the word must have been derived from the Greek god of the wind: Typhon, and that his name has spread all the way to China and gradually become corrupted. Hence the weird spelling in English for a 台风
lazy8s · 7 points · Posted at 04:34:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Is typhoon really a house with a broken roof and a tombstone?
GuessImStuckWithThis · 5 points · Posted at 06:24:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yep
x86_64Ubuntu · 1 points · Posted at 15:38:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I've always looked cross-eyed at the inefficiency of non-Phonetic languages. But this word right here, I mean, I will always remember what those symbols mean. It's a house with a fucked up roof and a tombstone, what better way than to convey they idea of other than that akward ass 'Typhoon'.
doormatt26 · 1 points · Posted at 00:37:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Funny how both the word Typhoon and Cyclone both come from two different Greek roots to describe the same thing.
iamcatch22 · 3 points · Posted at 23:49:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Then why do Poles call Germany Niemcy? They're right next to each other
Nihht · 4 points · Posted at 04:11:39 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
German has a lot of different names. It's all about history. The Germans themselves and other Germanic languages call it Deutschland or variants thereof, essentially meaning "land of the people". The region was called Germania by the Romans so in English and other various languages call them Germany or variants thereof. The Poles and other Slavic languages (also Hungarian) call them Niemcy or variants thereof, which originally meant "foreigner" or "mute" (because they speak a different language). A number of Romance languages including French, Spanish, Portuguese, as well as Turkish, call them Allemagne, Alemania or variants thereof because of a tribe in the region from Roman times. The Finns and Estonians call it Saksa or Saksamaa after the Saxons/Saxony. The origin for Latvia and Lithuania's names for it are not as clear.
ohitsasnaake · 1 points · Posted at 01:57:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The French call it L'Allemagne. From the latin alemannia, from alemanni, an honorific meaning "the confederation of German tribes" given to the emperor who, unsurprisingly, defeated some German tribes (tribe?).
"Germany" itself also derives from Latin and referred to some Germanic tribe or tribes, so the origin is similar.
Apparently Niemcy comes from niemiec "German", and the Proto-Slavic for that derives from a word meaning a foreigner, German, or literally "a mute one", which sounds like they got named that because they spoke a different language, Germanic instead of Slavic.
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 01:26:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Charlemagne/Karl the Great
doormatt26 · 2 points · Posted at 01:36:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Caesar/Kaiser/Tsar
mildiii · 4 points · Posted at 04:09:29 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's weird to think that while we pronounce Caesar like see-tsar. It was actually pronounced more like Kai-tsar
idoubledo · 6 points · Posted at 23:06:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
This:
Pineapple: French: ananas
Italian: ananas
Spanish: piña/ananá
Portuguese (European): ananás
German: Ananas
Dutch: ananas
Swedish: ananas
Danish: ananas
Russian: ananas
Polish: ananas
Finnish: ananas
Estonian: ananass
Hungarian: ananász
Greek: ananás
(From http://theweek.com/articles/445825/curious-linguistic-history-pineapples-butterflies)
sumofawitch · 1 points · Posted at 01:28:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Portuguese (Brazilian): abacaxi.
hydrospanner · 1 points · Posted at 00:47:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This reminds me of the TIL for how the turkey got it's name, and what it's called around the world.
SavageGeeIced · 1 points · Posted at 04:56:44 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That sort of explains how we got Germany from Deutschland.
CanuckianOz · 1 points · Posted at 06:41:53 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Canada too. Cartier misunderstood the local word for village: Kanata. Began calling the entire area around Quebec City Kanata, eventually spelled it Canada, and here we are. Given today's geopolitics and culture, calling Canada a village is still quite fitting.
jaguass · 1 points · Posted at 10:29:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah, it's funny when you consider Germany: germans in english, alemanes in spanish, tedeschi in italian. My intuition is that it corresponds to the name of the tribe they met when going to this territory (before when germany was a bunch of tribes).
doormatt26 · 1 points · Posted at 13:59:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Plus, none of those match what Germans call Germany (Deutschland), though the Italian word does come from the same root.
133strings · 1 points · Posted at 00:09:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
For example the word "Kangaroo" actually means "I don't understand what you are saying".
That's what you get for pointing at something and asking "What's that?!"
WhatIsThatThing · 7 points · Posted at 00:30:39 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's actually not true.
protofury · 4 points · Posted at 01:40:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sounds like you'd enjoy Arrival.
Grokent · 1 points · Posted at 03:38:18 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh ya? Well the aboriginal word for a canine is "Dog". Explain that smartypants.
WhatIsThatThing · 2 points · Posted at 04:27:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Aboriginal is not a language.
Grokent · 0 points · Posted at 04:59:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No credit for partial answers!
WhatIsThatThing · 1 points · Posted at 05:06:47 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You're talking about the (now unfortunately extinct) Mbabaram language, where the local word for 'dog' was 'dog.' It's a striking coincidence but it is in fact a coincidence.
Grokent · 1 points · Posted at 05:21:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Or, maybe it's evidence the dogs named themselves! Actually it's even stranger because I don't think we even know where the English use of the word dog came from since hound was the more common name.
133strings · 1 points · Posted at 03:29:37 on December 12, 2016 · (Permalink)
I've been Mythbusted! That's cool to know but I'm sad that it's not a comedic as I thought.
[deleted] · -4 points · Posted at 23:04:37 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
Silent-G · 3 points · Posted at 23:36:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, that's a completely different lingual concept.
rangi1218 · -2 points · Posted at 01:53:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's probably bs but I heard "Kangaroo" is Aboriginal for "I don't know". As in someone asked what that animal was and the reply was "IDK"
doormatt26 · 1 points · Posted at 02:11:33 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah they tell that story in Arrival but say it's BS.
Kangaroo actually comes from an Aboriginal wood for kangaroo, not I don't know: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangaroo#Terminology
careless_sux · 243 points · Posted at 22:41:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Here's another one. Westerners used to call Beijing "Peking."
Peking Duck is just another way of saying Beijing Duck. But when westerners decided that Beijing is a more accurate romanization than Peking, the famous dish never changed its name. PEK is still the airport code for Beijing Capital International Airport too.
jlking3 · 123 points · Posted at 22:44:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Is this a similar story to how Bombay became Mumbai?
Joltie · 170 points · Posted at 22:54:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes. In both cases, it wasn't westerners deciding that one pronounciation was better than the other.
Peking was how the Southern Chinese people where the Portuguese did most of its commerce called the city, so that's how the Portuguese called the city, and in turn, that's how the rest of Europe and the world called the city. Then in the last few decades, the Communist Party developed a romanization of the Chinese scripts by the standard Mandarin pronounciation. In the new romanization made by the Chinese, the city was translated into Bei-jing. So over the last few decades, the English media and population started saying Beijing rather than Peking. Latin languages, such as French, Portuguese and Spanish, still call the capital Peking or a variation thereof.
In regards to Bombay - Mumbai, Bombaim was the name the Portuguese gave to the bay, which became the name of the city that they governed for a while and then gave it to the English in a dowry in the 17th century, which became anglicized as Bombay.
Much more recently the Indian State government decided to change the name for a variety of reasons, including to strengthen local culture, and to clear the vestiges of European imperialism.
TheVoiper · 12 points · Posted at 23:41:37 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Another one is Rangoon becoming Yangon
MarianoAlipi · 16 points · Posted at 23:10:57 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
In Spanish we call it Beijing. "Pekín" is used very rarely.
rockyhoward · 10 points · Posted at 00:11:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
We've only started doing that very recently tho and not even in all places. Traditionally it has been called "Pekín", as old books or idioms like "Aquí y en Pekín" demonstrate.
Even the Wikipedia article names it "Pekín":
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pek%C3%ADn
TheThiefLord · 3 points · Posted at 00:27:36 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Here and in Peking? Does that idiom basically mean 'its done this way everywhere' or something similar?
rockyhoward · 2 points · Posted at 03:25:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yep! That's exactly the meaning :)
MarianoAlipi · 1 points · Posted at 00:29:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes, that's what it means. I hear "aquí y en China" more often, but it's the same.
TheThiefLord · 2 points · Posted at 00:36:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Cool, thanks for letting me know!
Sualcalay · 2 points · Posted at 01:50:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah, it seems "Beijing" is probably catching up in the romantic languages due to movies, series and other forms of english-based media.
"Pekín" was very seldom used anyway, so now "Beijing" is taking over.
rockyhoward · 5 points · Posted at 03:25:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What drove the point home was the Olympics 2008 more than anything.
akiba305 · 3 points · Posted at 02:04:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I have actually never heard anybody call the capital "Beijing" in Spanish. Even the media uses "Peking"
MarianoAlipi · 2 points · Posted at 02:22:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Remember the Beijing Olympics?
yamayo · 1 points · Posted at 02:49:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I do. And it seems like you don't.
http://www.rtve.es/m/alacarta/videos/programa/ceremonia-inauguracion-jjoo-pekin/268687/?media=tve
MarianoAlipi · 1 points · Posted at 03:04:36 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hey, calm down and don't downvote. Gee. Where are you from? I see you provided a link to a Spanish website. In Mexico, the media said "Beijing".
http://archivo.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/529043.html
yamayo · 2 points · Posted at 13:32:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
OP said "French, Portuguese and Spanish" and I just had in mind France, Portugal and Spain, as they are so close. Sorry about that, no downvotes for you!
MarianoAlipi · 1 points · Posted at 16:50:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Haha, it's okay! I was a bit ambiguous too. Glad we got that clear. :)
this_account_is_mine · 6 points · Posted at 23:29:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Same in Portugal.
Joltie · 5 points · Posted at 23:39:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That is not true.
The overwhelming majority of people in Portugal call the Chinese capital "Pequim". Beijing has very limited acceptance thus far in Portugal.
this_account_is_mine · 0 points · Posted at 23:53:28 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You could have fooled me. I was under the impression that Portugal had conformed to pin-yin, then again I left Portugal back in 1999 (last millennium).
De qualquer forma essa merda é tudo chinês para mim.
Joltie · 3 points · Posted at 23:55:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I was talking about what people usually say. But even in official Portuguese, Pequim is still the proper way to say it.
Still conquering the world, we are.
this_account_is_mine · 2 points · Posted at 00:34:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
O Bacalhau não se espalha pelo mundo sozinho.
JSBraga · 2 points · Posted at 00:43:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I've literally never heard anybody calling it Beijing in Portuguese.
this_account_is_mine · 2 points · Posted at 00:49:18 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Pronto, estava enganado.
Sualcalay · 1 points · Posted at 01:40:36 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nah, I've also heard portuguese speakers call it "Beijing" but I believe it's more of a current development. Because "Pequim" is still the portuguese correct/traditional form of saying it.
ThatsSoRaka · 12 points · Posted at 00:34:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't mean to be rude, but I'm curious: what is your first language? Your English is extremely good but you made the small mistake of using "how" with "call", a common error I've seen while teaching English as a second language. If English is your first language, from whence do you hail? I'm just curious if this is a regionalism or something along those lines. If English is indeed a second/third/etc. tongue for you - wow, well done, but I have a small tip: always use "what" with "call", not "how" - "what the Portuguese called the city," for example.
Joltie · 9 points · Posted at 01:11:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
My native language is indeed Portuguese.
Thanks for both the compliment and for the correction. I'll be sure to use it. ;)
watson-and-crick · 2 points · Posted at 01:19:00 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
While "what" does sound a bit better than "how" is not a horrible mistake by any means. Don't worry about that :) I hear "how" used like that often enough in spoken English
ThatsSoRaka · 2 points · Posted at 03:03:39 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Your written English is better than most native speakers! That's why I was curious in the first place.
It is a small correction. From my limited experience in learning other languages and teaching others, this rule is unique to English. I see it online a lot.
Jason_OT · 3 points · Posted at 04:19:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Native English speaker here. That's a very bad rule, very far from always being true.
Who is very often going to be the proper adverb used with called, and how isn't necessarily incorrect - especially not here where we're discussing pronunciations and proper nouns collectively.
ThatsSoRaka · 0 points · Posted at 04:37:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
"How" is necessarily incorrect in this instance.
This is how the thing is called.This is what the thing is called.Who is called rude? - Yup
How do you call your dog? - Yup
I suppose I could have been more explicit about this. I thought the example made it clear enough.
Jason_OT · 0 points · Posted at 04:56:12 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, how is not necessarily incorrect here.
The question isn't simply which proper noun is being used, but how that proper noun came to be used.
Yes, there are many more instances where what is proper and how is not. This is not one of those instances where it is so cut and dry. What is also not always the adverb to be used with call.
ThatsSoRaka · 0 points · Posted at 05:32:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The instance I'm talking about is OP's comment, to be clear. In my opinion, it is cut and dry in that context.
Jason_OT · 1 points · Posted at 06:01:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
OP used the word how three times.
At least two of the three are acceptable as how.
More importantly, don't suggest to ESL learners that anything be used always when that couldn't be further from the truth.
ThatsSoRaka · 0 points · Posted at 08:02:14 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's used the same way all three times. None are acceptable. The links I've provided back that up.
OP is clearly quite advanced in their study of English and I trust they understand that "always" when it comes to rules is always ;) a tad inaccurate.
Jason_OT · 0 points · Posted at 08:28:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You are incorrect on all fronts.
Learn from it.
Hopefully stop teaching your ESL learners to "always" use rules that might be applicable 60% of the time at best.
1Down · 6 points · Posted at 01:08:02 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Not the person you replied to but I'm a native English speaker from California and I thought saying "how x calls y" was something that's ok. At least I thought it was ok when used in the context of how something sounds.
meltyman79 · 1 points · Posted at 02:11:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Me too, I didn't notice.
wookyoftheyear · 1 points · Posted at 01:30:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
My Russian friends do the same thing, I've never really noticed it.
UknowmeimGui · 3 points · Posted at 04:03:55 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh... My... God...
Bombaim>Bom baim> Bom Bahia
Bom Bahia = Good Bay in Portuguese
You just blew my mind sir.
SidJag · 5 points · Posted at 01:01:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
I don't think Bombay/Mumbai falls into this linguistic discussion- as there was no original Indian city, called 'Mumbai'.
It was always a trading post, created by Europeans, so when nationalistic politicians decided to change Bombay to Mumbai, there was no cleaning of imperialism, just a thick coating of misplaced nationalistic pride for the sake of populism.
Same for the southern city of Madras changing to Chennai, or the eastern Indian city of Calcutta, which served as the capital for the British Raj for the longest time, to Kolkata.
Oh, incidentally, in Hindi, all Christians across India, and in all Churches, and in all Christian prayers, recitals etc, Jesus is called Yeshu. It seems odd that the Hindi pronunciation is exactly that of the Hebrew one, while the anglicized one has become Jesus - I'm guessing the fact that Christianity coming to India via the Portugese and not the English, had something to do with it.
Edit: Thanks for all the inputs, gives more learning to me, but it seems, the jury is still out about who originally got the Christian faith to the Indian subcontinent - so far, I've read about Portugese, Persians and Apostles.
EsaMierdaLoca · 4 points · Posted at 01:48:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
For what its worth, Gujaratis have referred to that city as "Mumbai" for as long as I can remember, well before it was renamed
Also I think that the name "Mumbai" comes from Mumba devi
badmartialarts · 4 points · Posted at 01:11:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Christianity came to India by way of St. Thomas (at least by tradition, I'm not sure if there is hard evidence). India was one of the first countries to have Christians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Thomas_Christian_Churches
daRcmushroom · 2 points · Posted at 02:09:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Indian legend is Jesus didn't ascend after the crucifixion but took a tour of the east through India spreading the good word.
Joltie · 4 points · Posted at 01:52:11 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'll admit that I don't know the city's history so I'll defer on that discussion. About the Indian nationalism, I've had quite a humorous encounter with it here on reddit for having dared to question false historical facts, that left me some lasting impressions.
Christianity didn't come to India via the Portuguese. It came via one of the Apostles of Jesus. Which might be the explanation for Jesus' name in Hindi.
When the Portuguese arrived in India, they did find Indian Nestorian Christians.
Besides, Jesus' name in Portuguese is, unsurprinsingly, since Portuguese is a Latin language: Jesus.
theageofnow · 1 points · Posted at 05:08:18 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Christianity came to India from Persia, well before the Moguls: http://chroniclesofmalabar.blogspot.com/2012/04/influence-of-persian-christianity-on.html
The Portuguese and French brought Roman Catholicism
AddictedtoBoom · 1 points · Posted at 14:05:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I have a good friend from Bombay, born and raised. He refuses to call it Mumbai. He calls that political government nonsense.
pieman3141 · 1 points · Posted at 01:40:16 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The 'j' was a 'k' sound even in Mandarin about 150-200 years ago.
theageofnow · 3 points · Posted at 04:41:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Similar but not exactly. Beijing and Peking are different transliterations of the same word. Mumbai and Bombay are different words and the renaming is controversial with many of its residents. I don't think there are many people from Beijing who insist they're from Peking whereas there are many people from Mumbai who are proud to use the word "Bombay" to describe their city.
"The name Mumbai is an eponym, etymologically derived from Mumba or Maha-Amba—the name of the Hindu goddess Mumbadevi—and Aai, "mother" in Marathi. The former name Bombay had its origins in the 16th century when the Portuguese arrived in the area and called it by various names, which finally took the written form Bombaim, still common in current Portuguese use. After the British gained possession in the 17th century, it was anglicised to Bombay, although it was known as Mumbai or Mambai to Marathi and Gujarati-speakers, and as Bambai in Hindi, Persian and Urdu. It is sometimes still referred to by its older names, like Kakamuchee and Galajunkja. The name was officially changed to its Marathi pronunciation of Mumbai in 1996."
BelindaBlinkedThrice · 1 points · Posted at 17:13:57 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think it had to do with Dr. Bombay from Bewitched, but don't quote me on that /s
semt3x · 0 points · Posted at 22:58:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Remarkably similar, all the way down to the duck(which is not a duck).
ppfftt · 3 points · Posted at 23:20:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's not duck? Wiki says it's duck.
[deleted] · -3 points · Posted at 00:42:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 00:54:53 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh they had millennia of manual labor already, and Christianity for that matter.
javi95gera · 1 points · Posted at 00:57:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
http://reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/5h7pti/til_jesus_name_translated_from_hebrew_to_english/dayl8ga I used to think the same thing, but this guy explains why they called it that.
bulbmonkey · 7 points · Posted at 23:13:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
In German it's still mainly Peking.
FootballTA · 8 points · Posted at 23:19:24 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Northern Chinese people also called it Peking once. Peking to Beijing involves a few very common sound changes in languages - changing an unvoiced P to a voiced B, diphthongizing the "e" to an "ei", and palatalizing a K sound to a J sound.
intergalacticspy · 3 points · Posted at 00:12:14 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The "b" in Beijing is actually unaspirated and unvoiced, i.e. "Pei-ching" but yes, before the 18th century it would have been pronounced "Pei-king"
Anke_Dietrich · 4 points · Posted at 23:10:11 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Beijing is called Peking in German.
spockspeare · 1 points · Posted at 04:42:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Germany is called Deutschland in German. So I don't think they know what they're talking about.
Rotes_Str8_Fyah · 7 points · Posted at 22:56:12 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
In Dutch Peking is still used when talking about Beijing. I even think when someone would say Bejing half of the Dutch speaking People on the Planet don't even know what is meant.
yourethevictim · 2 points · Posted at 23:07:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Was gonna comment to say this. I grew up with the name Peking. Born and raised in Amsterdam.
ohitsasnaake · 2 points · Posted at 02:09:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think you're underestimating Dutch-speakers here though, given how well they tend to know English.
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 23:14:22 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
In turkey we still call it as Pekin
Pascalwb · 3 points · Posted at 23:48:31 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's Peking in my language Slovak.
ViciousNakedMoleRat · 3 points · Posted at 00:11:48 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think it's also quite unknown that in Thai, Bangkok is known as Krung Thep (pronounced somewhat like "croong tehb").
woppa1 · 3 points · Posted at 00:14:12 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
In Hong Kong we call it peking
proclaimer989 · 3 points · Posted at 02:45:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's not entirely true.
"Beijing" is in pinyin which was developed by a Chinese man, Zhou Youguang, and published by the Chinese Communist Party in 1958.
"Peking" is in Wade-Giles, developed by Wade and Giles (Westerners). If you follow the pronunciation conventions used to read Wade-Giles correctly then "Peking" sounds closer "Beijing" than one would think.
Wade-Giles also wasn't necessarily based on the Beijing dialect (basis for standard Mandarin) whereas pinyin is based more upon standard Mandarin pronunciation.
theyfoundit · 3 points · Posted at 02:52:30 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I got really confused when I flew through Guangzhou and all my luggage was tagged CAN. Turns out Guangzhou was once known as Canton.
Jtotheoey · 3 points · Posted at 09:01:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hence, cantonese.
solepsis · 2 points · Posted at 23:43:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm a fan of the Persia/Iran distinction. Iranians have always called themselves some version of that word. Westerners inherited "Persia" from early Greek contact and have only since about WWII have even started using the name Iran.
steamtroller77 · 2 points · Posted at 00:16:19 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The Japanese still call it Peking. I suspect, more than anything, they do this to piss off the Chinese.
angrymonkeyisangry · 2 points · Posted at 00:19:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
In Spanish it's still Pekin for the city.
ohitsasnaake · 2 points · Posted at 02:02:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Slighty FTFY: When most westerners decided. ;)
Beijing is still Peking in e.g. Finnish.
ReddEquinox · 2 points · Posted at 02:51:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I guess English retained "Pekingese", too, for the dog breed
igvig · 2 points · Posted at 04:11:43 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Actually, I've heard folks speaking other Chinese languages (Hokkien, if I remember, very close to Taiwanese) pronounce it something like Peh-Ching (not a linguist, sorry), with a very strong "Ch". So the original western spelling may have been arrived to from other folks pronouncing it differently.
KuntaStillSingle · 2 points · Posted at 04:31:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
ROK also calls Korea hanguk 한국. I'm not sure if it's a case of domestic vs international name or just multiple names i.e. 'u.s., the states, freedomland etc.'
p660R · 3 points · Posted at 23:28:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I was under the impression that the Bejing/Peking thing had to do with the way used to Romanize the Chinese languages (something like Wade-Giles vs. Pinyin).
intergalacticspy · 1 points · Posted at 00:18:49 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Beijing = Pei-ching in Wade-Giles. The "k" is a relic of an older/Southern pronunciation.
Pishwi · 1 points · Posted at 23:07:09 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Kind of like how Cumberland sausages are still Cumberland sausages despite Cumberland becoming Cumbria. Kind of
JustVan · 1 points · Posted at 23:47:14 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Pretty sure they still say Peking or something similar in Japanese. Languages are weird.
cygodx · 1 points · Posted at 02:57:26 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
In german Beijing = Peking.
eypandabear · 1 points · Posted at 21:32:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It is still called Peking in German and Dutch, and Pékin in French.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:34:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
intergalacticspy · 1 points · Posted at 00:23:55 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because the sounds have no exact European counterpart. Pinyin "b" / Wade-Giles "p" is unvoiced and unaspirated, i.e. somewhere in between an English "b" and "p".
shenry1313 · 1 points · Posted at 23:40:11 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
To be fair if done properly Peking is pronounced as Beijing only in Wade Giles.
No one actually learns how to read Wade Giles though.
izactuallydolan · 1 points · Posted at 00:13:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
If you talk to anyone who speaks Mandarin, it sounds like nothing but Beijing. White people messed that one up.
Georgia the country? That one's even worse.
Shautieh · 0 points · Posted at 00:44:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Am a westerner, and still use Pekin.
Pravusmentis · 6 points · Posted at 22:43:03 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Okay, germany and turkey are easy, why do we call the city 'Paris'? in English? Did we write it down in french and read it phonetically in england?
RuSsIaKiLlZ4tHeLuLz · 4 points · Posted at 23:02:35 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because of our English roots. Due to so many conflicts between the English and French common words in the English language that have French origins are pronounced differently. Lets try this out, the next time you see a POM ask him or her to pronounce the word "fillet"
RiskyShift · 3 points · Posted at 23:21:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Or try asking an American to pronounce croissant.
RuSsIaKiLlZ4tHeLuLz · 1 points · Posted at 23:40:28 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That too.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 03:15:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
PM_ME_YOUR_BREWS · 2 points · Posted at 11:23:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah, but most people pronounce the local spot weird and if they're at a 7th grade education or better will say the global/historical place correctly. I live in Ohio and hear this shit all the time.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:10:08 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
gootwo · 1 points · Posted at 00:11:18 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
English person.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:13:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
gootwo · 1 points · Posted at 00:18:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No one knows really - it's generally believed to be a derogatory contraction of 'pomegranate' as English people turned bright red in the hot sun of their colonial territories, like a pomegranate, but the actual origin is now lost to the mists of time.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:25:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
gootwo · 1 points · Posted at 07:47:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
We said Prisoner of Mother England growing up, but that really doesn't make sense.
Bromlife · 1 points · Posted at 00:40:31 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
In primary school we thought it meant "poofters on medication".
Children, especially Australian children, are not very PC.
RuSsIaKiLlZ4tHeLuLz · 1 points · Posted at 21:26:57 on December 11, 2016 · (Permalink)
Prisoner of her majesty
saarl · 3 points · Posted at 00:15:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It was pronounced PAR-ees in Old French, and that's how people pronounced it in English back then too. Later the pronunciations changed both in English and in French, but the spelling remained the same in both.
edit: the same thing happened with other words such as 'image'
TheNeedForEmbiid · 2 points · Posted at 23:17:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Do you know why the abbreviation for Switzerland is CH? I never got that one
Copper_Tango · 5 points · Posted at 23:51:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Confoederatio Helvetica, which is the Latin translation of "Swiss Confederation". Helvetica comes from the Helvetii, a Celtic tribe that once lived in the area that's now Switzerland.
TheNeedForEmbiid · 3 points · Posted at 00:46:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh of course, all makes sense now
PM_ME_YOUR_BREWS · 2 points · Posted at 11:28:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's so plain to see!
Jtotheoey · 1 points · Posted at 09:04:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Which sounds funny to Swedish ears, since helvete means hell in Swedish. To me, it looks like it's called The Confederation Of Hell.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:32:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
do people PM you magic deck techs?..
Richard7666 · 1 points · Posted at 01:58:26 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
How did the Malays mess it up in the first place?
PM_ME_YOUR_BREWS · 2 points · Posted at 11:29:31 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It was probably the Malay word at the time for "those shitheads over there" or something.
vamplosion · 1 points · Posted at 02:00:43 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Similarly the Japanese word for the UK is Igirisu - taken from portugese
PM_ME_YOUR_BREWS · 1 points · Posted at 14:56:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This one is maybe a little more specious. England, Inglaterra, Angleterre, Anglia, İngiltere—they're all pretty much the same.
methamp · 1 points · Posted at 02:02:31 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
TIL!
TheMindsEIyIe · 1 points · Posted at 03:56:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
ive always wanted to know this!
AlvinGT3RS · 1 points · Posted at 04:17:02 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I always wondered where the fuck they got "Japan" from
spockspeare · 1 points · Posted at 04:29:47 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
And when the Japanese say it, it's Zipangu.
PM_ME_YOUR_BREWS · 1 points · Posted at 11:30:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So the Japanese say Nippon and a variation of "Japan"? Interesting. In what contexts is Zipangu used?
spockspeare · 2 points · Posted at 02:14:23 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Historical contexts. A little like calling America "the Colonies." I only knew it because it's the name of a restaurant. They only chose it because it's trivia.
Pylons · 1 points · Posted at 07:32:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Marco Polo called it "Cipangu".
Odusei · 0 points · Posted at 01:16:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't think he wants the historical reason we call it that, he wants to know why we still call counties and cities by the wrong name.
Some of them are just bizarre. The capital of Greece is Athena, not Athens.
PM_ME_YOUR_BREWS · 1 points · Posted at 14:56:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
But the reason why we still call them by the wrong name is just because we've called them by the wrong name historically.
Odusei · 1 points · Posted at 14:59:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
We used to do plenty of things we don't do anymore. That's not really a justification.
PM_ME_YOUR_BREWS · 1 points · Posted at 14:59:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's not a justification, it's an explanation.
Odusei · 1 points · Posted at 15:04:36 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
But the request is for modern justification, not historical explanation. Why are we still calling countries and cities by the wrong names?
PM_ME_YOUR_BREWS · 1 points · Posted at 15:12:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The answer is because we historically derived a different name for the place. We have never corrected ourselves. The question seeks explanation, not justification. The answer is an explanation. Not sure why this isn't clear.
SentienceBot · 238 points · Posted at 22:31:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Germany (English) - Deutschland (German) - Tyskland (Danish) - Germania (Italian) - Alemania (Spanish) - Vokietija (Lithuanian) - Nemecko (Slovak
ian) - Saksa (Finnish)Edit: a map.
iulioh · 81 points · Posted at 22:52:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Italian here
The even weirder part is the fact that the people in "Germania" are called "Tedeschi"
DiligerentJewl · 139 points · Posted at 23:30:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Pass Tedeschi on the left hand side.
asparagusface · 5 points · Posted at 00:12:31 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ha, Boston reference noticed.
bizeast · 5 points · Posted at 00:16:56 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Boston you're my home
OddTheViking · 3 points · Posted at 00:55:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Magnificant
theivoryflash · 2 points · Posted at 02:19:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hands up for Boston
UncleAnouche · 19 points · Posted at 23:10:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, "Tedeschi" is pretty close to "Deutsch/Tysk", so I say: fair enough
_chadwell_ · 4 points · Posted at 23:28:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
UncleAnouche has spoken!
sigserio · 5 points · Posted at 23:59:54 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I guess it's subjective but I don't think those sound similar at all. I don't know your background but the "sch" in "tedeschi" is pronounced like "sk" and not like the "sch" in "deutsch".
I don't think you can call "tedeschi" pretty close to "tysk" only because they share the "t" and "sk" sound. ¯\_(ツ) _/¯
Ready_All_Type · 7 points · Posted at 01:58:47 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Tedeschi/tedesco is from theodiscus which is latinised from the older word responsible for Deutsch. Etymologically they're linked, despite pronunciation changes
UncleAnouche · 1 points · Posted at 09:58:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
yes, I knew the pronunciation of tedeschi. And yes, they are etymologically related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Germany#Names_from_Diutisc
SentienceBot · 6 points · Posted at 23:00:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Lo so! La mia profesoressa di lingua italiana mi ha detto per che sono diversi, pero lo ho dimenticato :/
Pishwi · 5 points · Posted at 23:09:24 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
La lingua si chiama Tedesco, almeno. Germania è lo stesso in Latina
OK_Soda · 4 points · Posted at 00:03:02 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Like how in English, the people from the Netherlands are called the Dutch?
watson-and-crick · 4 points · Posted at 01:21:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Pretty sure that has something to do with the English just straight up confusing the people from Germany and the Netherlands at some point
Ready_All_Type · 5 points · Posted at 02:04:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's more an artefact of common heritage
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 02:09:00 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, it's not that bad. The Dutch used to be the same people as the Germans just five centuries ago. Since they've become independent, the difference between them and Germans grew till they became two different nations. But the name in English stayed.
elnombredelviento · 3 points · Posted at 01:44:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Which is cognate in English with "Teutonic".
itsmattia · 2 points · Posted at 00:23:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Germanici FTW!
MedvedFeliz · 2 points · Posted at 02:14:36 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
In Russian, the country is called Germaniya and the people and language are called Nemetskiy.
mrSenzaVolto · 2 points · Posted at 02:52:36 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The first time I heard someone wanted to learn "Tedesco" I was confused and had no idea what language they where referring to. Variation is strange.
Mutant_Llama1 · 1 points · Posted at 00:32:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Isn't that the guy who died in Big Hero Six?
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 04:43:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That would be Tadashi
Ready_All_Type · 1 points · Posted at 01:59:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodiscus
pjk922 · 1 points · Posted at 04:16:48 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh my god, where I grew up there was a small local deli chain called tedeschi's, I always wondered where the name came from
Jtotheoey · 1 points · Posted at 09:07:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Thats related to the word tysk/tyskland in the Scandinavian languages.
FlatSixer · 133 points · Posted at 22:50:25 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
As a German bier fan, I love the Spanish translation of Alemania. I think it should have an exclamation point at all times, too.
xTRS · 426 points · Posted at 23:22:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
They're the Alemaniacs! Their flag is gold and red and black. They wear funny looking hats, lederhosen 'stead of slacks, the Alemaniacs!
IsaacEiland-Hall · 53 points · Posted at 23:42:20 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hallo Krankenschwester!
elaborateruser · 5 points · Posted at 01:41:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
??? Isn't that 'nurse'?
ZanzabarOHenry · 1 points · Posted at 05:44:02 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Literally "sick sister," but the proper translation is "nurse." Fun fact
IsaacEiland-Hall · 1 points · Posted at 01:42:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You need to watch more Animaniacs (which the parent comment was parodying/referencing) <3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezonRf5lZeI
xTRS · 1 points · Posted at 05:01:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I just realized that I'm glad I didn't watch animaniacs through puberty or I'd probably have a fetish for nurses. I don't know a single nurse so my life would be unfulfilled.
IsaacEiland-Hall · 1 points · Posted at 05:33:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Eh, everyone has different kinks and preferences and such. Nurses are common, but not universal. And very few nurses these days wear the stereotypical/historical outfit. And there are a lot of male nurses now, too. :)
But actually, if you haven't watched much Animaniacs in a long time, give it another go and you might catch a LOT of adult-oriented humour you might've missed as a kid. :)
LysergicOracle · 85 points · Posted at 23:35:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
What do you wanna do tonight, Brain?
Same thing we do every night, Pinky... try to get blackout drunk.
serfdomgotsaga · 3 points · Posted at 03:24:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
They didn't try to take over the world any more since the last time they attempted it, it caused some... unpleasantness.
psbwb · 1 points · Posted at 04:35:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Easy, just add some Xanax.
Pipes32 · 4 points · Posted at 00:34:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Bravo sir or madam. Enjoy.
Pete_da_bear · 3 points · Posted at 02:36:00 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Is this some kind of humor I don't get with my german brain? I hope it is.
xTRS · 3 points · Posted at 02:37:26 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Reference to a popular cartoon from the 90s called animaniacs.
SomethingFreshToast · 2 points · Posted at 04:10:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This needs way more upvote
xTRS · 1 points · Posted at 04:55:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
300+ and gold this many levels down is plenty for little ol' me
ticktockaudemars · 1 points · Posted at 00:27:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What do you want to do today, Germans?
drgradus · 4 points · Posted at 01:29:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The same thing we do every night, Britain.
azor__ahai · 3 points · Posted at 01:12:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Die
Tsemnar · 1 points · Posted at 05:18:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Otto's gut, Otto's butt...
solepsis · 18 points · Posted at 23:39:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The Alemanni were actually an early Germanic tribe that the Romans encountered. Since Italian doesn't follow the pattern of French and Spanish, I can only guess the Franks are the ones that carried the name over after conquering the tribe. I would certainly be interested in that linguistic history.
atzenkatzen · 3 points · Posted at 00:25:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
that doesn't explain why its called Almanya in turkish, though
pjk922 · 3 points · Posted at 04:15:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm guessing the name just stuck there. This is a complete crapshoot but Rome -> Byzantine (eastern Roman Empire) -> ottomans -> turkey, and they just kept the name?
solepsis · 2 points · Posted at 15:54:53 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I would guess Franks took it to Spain, where it was carried to the Arabic world and eventually co-opted by the Turks.
solepsis · 2 points · Posted at 15:53:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Through Spain. Andalusia was part of the Caliphate for a long time.
kerm1tthefrog · 1 points · Posted at 08:37:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Allmania refers to all man. Just bunch of tribes gathering together. At least what i read.
MankeyManksyo · 3 points · Posted at 23:40:12 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think it has to do with a Suebi tribe, the Alemanni
HighDingyDoo · 2 points · Posted at 00:45:47 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Albania" in Albanian is "shqipëria", and the Albanian language is "shqip."
FrankManic · 1 points · Posted at 02:35:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Germany#Names_from_Alemanni
edwartica · 17 points · Posted at 22:58:15 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I find it interesting that the western romance languages (Spanish, Portuguese, French) and the Eastern romance languages (Italian, Romanian) have such a disconnect. The name is more geographical than root language based.
UncleAnouche · 27 points · Posted at 23:14:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Alemans were a Germanic tribe, the southwestern dialects of German (including Swiss German) are in fact still grouped as "Alemannisch". So no surprise that western romance speakers had more contact with them
SentienceBot · 4 points · Posted at 23:03:37 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I heard once (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that "Aleman" and "German" were the way other groups refer to the "Deutsch."
UncleAnouche · 9 points · Posted at 23:17:25 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Alemans were a Germanic tribe. "German" means something like " spear man" and was the self description of some tribes that had contact with the Roman world
twoinvenice · 2 points · Posted at 09:38:55 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That reminds me of Beowulf
Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum, þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
Listen! We of the Spear-Danes in days of yore Of those folk-kings the glory have heard,
_Rainer_ · 1 points · Posted at 02:40:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Never read that one before. Any sort of source for that?
Karma_Redeemed · 2 points · Posted at 04:54:48 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
According to Wikipedia, it's one of several theories for the origin of the word
There is certainly some logic to it, since ger in Germanic languages means spear (From which we get names like Gerald, Geralt, and Garrett)
_Rainer_ · 1 points · Posted at 12:04:26 on December 13, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's interesting, but the connection doesn't seem very established based on other things I have read.
[deleted] · 0 points · Posted at 00:23:16 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Are Portuguese and Romanian romance languages? I thought the romance languages were just the 3.
BastouXII · 6 points · Posted at 02:08:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes they are. And there are a bunch of smaller ones as well : Catalan, Occitan, Romansh, Sardinian, Corsican, Sicilian, etc.
edwartica · 4 points · Posted at 04:13:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Think about the word Romanian. Think of the term Romance language. See any similarities? Roman......
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 05:01:25 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm an idiot.
edwartica · 1 points · Posted at 08:32:47 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Meh, it's an easy mistake to make, especially if you're not really paying attention to root words and what not.
Apalvaldr · 10 points · Posted at 23:10:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nemecko or Niemcy (in Polish) literally means 'those who do not speak'. When Slavs met Germans for the first time, they could not communicate hence the name (Also note that a lot of Germans lived in Poland making rather hermetic communities).
Why Hungarians call them as Slavs do I have no idea.
ComradeFrunze · 1 points · Posted at 05:27:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Probably because the Hungarians made contact with Germans around the same time as Slavs, so they took the Slavic word for them.
[deleted] · 6 points · Posted at 23:05:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Déguó 德国 in Chinese; "land of morality"
GuessImStuckWithThis · 6 points · Posted at 23:26:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You forgot the French name for Germany, Allemangne. Both the Spanish and French names come from the tribal who lived on the border during the Roman Empire. They were called the Allemani, which is believed to come from their name for themselves which meant 'all men' or 'all the men'
MrUppercut · 2 points · Posted at 01:53:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What do some of these countries call El Salvador? Seems like an easy translate for English since the name is actual words.
webik150 · 6 points · Posted at 22:54:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The most interesting is:
mishkamishka47 · 6 points · Posted at 22:56:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The Slavic words for German/Germany come from the word for 'mute', since when the countries were occupied the Germans didn't speak the language or something. Trying to recall what my high school Russian teacher told me but it's something along those lines
Apalvaldr · 5 points · Posted at 23:11:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not really an occupation. The name dates back to the early medieval times, when Slavs met Germans for the first time.
mishkamishka47 · 1 points · Posted at 23:47:09 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I figured I didn't have all the details right. History was never my strong suit!
Dragonsandman · 4 points · Posted at 23:44:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Then there's Hungary, which is Hongrie in French, Ungarn in German, Hungría in Spanish, and Венгрия (pronounced Vengriya) in Russian. All of those names are consistent with each other, but what do the Hungarians call Hungary? Magyarország, and they call themselves Magyars. Why nobody else calls them Magyars or their country Magyarland or something similar is beyond me.
premature_eulogy · 2 points · Posted at 21:04:31 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Finland is also "Suomi" in Finnish but a variation of "Finland" in practically every other language.
Pascalwb · 1 points · Posted at 23:52:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's Maďarsko in Slovak so that's close to theirs.
Shalaiyn · 2 points · Posted at 01:46:29 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Slovakia was a part of Hungary forever though.
nijlpaardje · 3 points · Posted at 23:13:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Coming into contact with certain tribes (Saxons, Alemannen) before the creation of a unified country leads to some names, but I'm curious where the Lithuanian & Latvian names came from!
kurenai86 · 3 points · Posted at 23:41:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And oddly (or not so) in Japanese it's ドイツ which is pronounced something like do-i-tsu. Which is probably the closest if them all (to the modern day name).
SentienceBot · 1 points · Posted at 15:25:11 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
If I recall well, Spain is Sepein or something like that.
Pascalwb · 3 points · Posted at 23:50:15 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Btw it's just Slovak not Slovakian.
SentienceBot · 1 points · Posted at 15:24:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Alright, thanks for the correction.
FrankManic · 3 points · Posted at 02:34:53 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The medieval Muslims didn't have this problem. If you were from North of Syria and West of Constantinople you were a Frank, with no need for further clarification.
white_android · 8 points · Posted at 22:57:03 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm still calling Germany doucheland. I still love you Germany, it's just... I'm not in love with you anymore.
Commissar_Sae · 2 points · Posted at 00:11:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The French is similar, as they call it Allemagne. Has to do with one of the Germanic tribes that used to live there called the Allemani rather than the Latin name for the area which was Germania.
csdavido · 2 points · Posted at 00:28:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
독일 Dog-il (Korean) from the Japanese
Auctoritate · 2 points · Posted at 01:42:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
And Allemagne in French, if I recall correctly.
AwesomelyHumble · 2 points · Posted at 01:46:33 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
In Farsi, it's Aleman (sp?). In French, it's Allemagne.
NessieReddit · 2 points · Posted at 02:05:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yugoslavian here. We call Germany "Njemačka" and a German person is called a "njemac" (singular, masculine) or a "švabo" (singular, masculine).
I don't know where the Njemačka/njemac words originated but švabo most likely originated from Swabia or Schwabenland which was a region in southwestern Germany.
It's very interesting to think about where all of our common words come from and mutate over time! Etymology is pretty fascinating.
nonombre · 0 points · Posted at 03:05:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I hate to be the one to tell you this, but I think your country stopped existing a while ago. I think there was a war or something
NessieReddit · 1 points · Posted at 04:20:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
My bad, smarty pants. My father is Croatian, my mother is Serbian, and I was born in what is now Bosnia. Better? A lot easier to say Yugoslavian, ain't it? Especially since I literally represent 3 major groups within the former Yugoslavia.
nonombre · 1 points · Posted at 01:46:53 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ah, you mean you're from the Balkans
NessieReddit · 1 points · Posted at 07:27:01 on December 13, 2016 · (Permalink)
Stop being pedantic. I'm from Yugoslavia. That's what's on my birth certificate. Deal with it.
Pete_da_bear · 2 points · Posted at 02:39:56 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I find it pretty interesting that the Finnish call us 'Saksa', which I guess resembles the Saxons (Sachsen). Kind of funny, cause there are so many different germanic tribes around and I think mentality is quite 'diverse' here in Deutschland.
cbstryker · 2 points · Posted at 17:36:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Németország (Hungary)
iDidAcidOnce · 1 points · Posted at 23:18:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah, never made sense to me haha.
Well, it does, but I never liked that that country has so many different names in so many different languages. One name is fine!
GBreezy · 1 points · Posted at 23:54:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I just love how Russians call Germans "the mute people" because they were the first non-slavic language they met. Warms my heart.
mewithoutMaverick · 1 points · Posted at 00:25:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It looks like Russia got it confused with Jumanji
drewson · 1 points · Posted at 01:01:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Germany is an interesting case because it sprang out of various tribes, so the neighboring states were referring to specific populations, not the overall state we now know as Germany.
fatal__flaw · 1 points · Posted at 01:22:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What's equally weird to me is that German olympic uniforms made in Germany by Germans for German athletes say "Germany" and not "Deutschland". Every other country has what they call themselves.
ohitsasnaake · 1 points · Posted at 02:16:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Any idea on a similar map for Russia?
IIRC the usual word (Rossija/Russia, etc.) means something like "Land of the Rus" where Rus are the people known by that name. This is pretty clear in most the Germanic countries e.g. Russland, Rusland, Rússland, Ryssland. But Finnish has Venäjä and Estonian has a cognate, Venemaa. The etymology for that, or at least one hypotheses that said Rus used boats, vene in Finnish & Estonian), and "maa" just means earth/land.
SentienceBot · 2 points · Posted at 15:20:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Check at /r/etymologymaps
ohitsasnaake · 2 points · Posted at 16:38:48 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Thanks!
https://www.reddit.com/r/etymologymaps/comments/20xsim/russia_in_some_european_languages_oc_9201635/
mankstar · 57 points · Posted at 22:29:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
From wiki:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Japan
Korea has something similar; Koreans call Korea 한국 which translates to "Hankook". It's called Korea because of an older Korean Kingdom, Koryo (고료).
[deleted] · 42 points · Posted at 22:41:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
mankstar · 86 points · Posted at 23:04:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Technically you're right, the best kind of right. It's also the reason that "gook" is a slur.
During the Korean War, Korean refugees/civilians would cry out to the American soldiers for help. The Korean word for America is 미국 which is pronounced "me-gook"; this led the Americans thought the Koreans were introducing themselves as gooks.
OK_Soda · 4 points · Posted at 00:04:55 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Similarly, "nip" is the slur for the Japanese.
jwalk8 · 2 points · Posted at 23:35:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So calling them gooks was basically calling them Americans? that must have confused some Koreans.
mankstar · 18 points · Posted at 23:38:59 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, "me-gook" means American. Just "gook" literally translates to "soup" lol
dfschmidt · 12 points · Posted at 23:43:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
This sounds like the old, tired joke that by saying "Ich bin ein Berliner" JFK was saying he was a jelly doughnut. And I imagine that if he was in Hamburg and had said "Ich bin ein Hamburger" people would be saying he was a sandwich.
intotherainbows · 6 points · Posted at 23:50:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
In this case, gook does not translate to soup. It comes from the Chinese 国, which means country, and is pronounced as "gook" (국) in Korean.
미국, or Mi-Gook, means "beautiful country" and is the word for USA. I'm pretty sure this also comes from the Chinese name.
Korea is called "Dae Han Min Gook" (대한민국), or translated as the Great Han People's Country
NoMouseLaptop · 3 points · Posted at 00:22:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What he was trying to say is essentially "I'm one of you, I'm a Berliner". In order to say that in German, you'd have to say "ich bin Berliner", not "ich bin ein Berliner". Adding in the "ein" implies an object or something.
Edit: But where the joke comes in is if you were ordering that pastry they're talking about you'd say something like "ich moechte ein Berliner", I would like a Berliner.
detourne · 11 points · Posted at 02:27:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
And the really funny thing is that the 'me' stands for beautiful. So you have a group of people that have named your country "the beautiful country" totally stoked that your soldiers are here helping them defeat communism, and the soldiers go around and turn it into a racial slur.
The_Real_Mongoose · 3 points · Posted at 04:29:02 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
America isnt named beautiful country because of helping in the Korean war. The name goes back much further and comes from Chinese. If I have to guess, it's because when the Americas were discovered by eurasians, the nature was untouched by any form of industrialization.
oGsBumder · 2 points · Posted at 14:36:08 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, it's nothing to do with that. The Chinese name (and therefore the Korean name) for America is simply a transliteration of the sound of the English name. Just like the Chinese name for England is 英国 (pronounced yingguo). 英 normally means "hero", but their reason for using this character wasn't because they thought England is a hero country, they simply used it because the sound matches.
For the same reason, despite 美 meaning "beautiful", their name for America 美国 does not translate as "beautiful country". It just translates as America.
What you are doing is equivalent to saying that the word Germany has any relation to the word germ.
The_Real_Mongoose · 1 points · Posted at 15:08:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What you describe does make perfect sense. Only, if you ask Koreans, they will tell you that the word for America means "beautiful country". Somehow the understanding of that meaning got passed down from the borrowed Chinese words.
Also, the word for england in Korean is also clearly related phonetically, yanggook, which I have understood to mean western country? Same yang for example as yangpa, western onion, yangbechu, western cabage, and yangbok, western traditional clothes (suit).
But this area of linguistics is not where my research lies, so please dont hesitate to correct my misunderstanding.
oGsBumder · 2 points · Posted at 15:54:43 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Interesting, thanks for the reply. I'm no linguist, and my level of mandarin is only really intermediate, but I am sure of what I wrote in my last post. In Chinese, the ying doesn't mean western, it only refers to england.
detourne · 2 points · Posted at 00:34:50 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
England is 영국, not 양국. Sorry, hombre. Although whiskey is 양주, which basically means western alcohol.
The_Real_Mongoose · 1 points · Posted at 02:20:34 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Riiiiight. Your right. Oops. Stupid mistake.
detourne · 1 points · Posted at 00:35:33 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sorry, you didnt quite understand what I wrote.
The_Real_Mongoose · 9 points · Posted at 23:59:35 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
"gook" as soup is a different etymology. the gook in hangook and migook means country.
mankstar · 1 points · Posted at 00:58:29 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah, it's called a homophone.
intotherainbows · 12 points · Posted at 23:52:23 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Really, "gook" (국) here is short for "gookga" (국가), or country.
ridunkulous · 2 points · Posted at 00:42:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
it's not short for anything. 국 is just a 한문 for a country. 미국 means beautiful country because it is made up of 아름다울 미 and 나라 국
Hexagonian · 1 points · Posted at 03:52:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Actually gook means (political) state, ga means family. Combined gookga means country.
mankstar · 0 points · Posted at 23:53:25 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes but if you just isolate 국, it would most commonly be understood as soup.
ridunkulous · 1 points · Posted at 00:43:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
no it wouldn't be because 국 itself is a word in itself.
mankstar · -1 points · Posted at 00:58:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
If you just say 국 to a Korean person, they're way more likely to think soup and not country.
The_Real_Mongoose · 1 points · Posted at 01:38:17 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It depends on context. Korean people aren't stupid. If you call them " a gook" they are more likely to understand you are misusing "국인" that to think you believe they are a kind of food.
jwalk8 · 2 points · Posted at 00:33:48 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Americans!! blahblahblah soup!
still confusing
spockspeare · 1 points · Posted at 04:47:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Does that make it more clear?
jwalk8 · 1 points · Posted at 05:08:19 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
More clear for Korean villagers from the 70's? Not sure, i'll go ask them..
spockspeare · 1 points · Posted at 05:13:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I was there in the early 80s. They seem to have got it by then. They could identify themselves, us, and soup without error. I expect in the 70s they were pretty close or already there.
jwalk8 · 1 points · Posted at 05:25:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I probably wasn't giving enough credit. Even if it did mean soup, I'm sure they could tell by tone. If someone angrily called me a pizza, I would understand disrespect.
spockspeare · 1 points · Posted at 05:49:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
We used to call the Germans krauts. They and the French used to call the English roast-beefs. But to keep that trope going we'd have had to call the Koreans kimchis and the Japanese sushis.
theregoesanother · 3 points · Posted at 01:41:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Great! Now I know how to pronounce my tires.
sniperzoo · 1 points · Posted at 00:14:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm going to call that yuan company Hangook Tires
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:31:48 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
ArchKDE · 6 points · Posted at 22:40:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
*고려. It would be spelled Goryeo in Revised romanization system, and Koryŏ in McCune-Reischauer. The eo/ŏ is pronounced similar the "u" in "bug" in American English.
mankstar · 1 points · Posted at 23:05:03 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Eh I clearly don't write Korean as well as I should
The_Real_Mongoose · 1 points · Posted at 00:46:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
sometimes the 어 makes a soft "u" sound like bug, but more often its closer to the sound of "au' in "taught". 고려 would be more like the latter.
ArchKDE · 1 points · Posted at 01:34:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The English short "u" is transcribed into IPA as /ʌ/, as is ㅓ. However, when I speak Korean, I pronounce it ever so slightly slightly more back than I would the English short "u". My parents pronounce it exactly the same as I do (both Seoul natives), and my father's parents (both from Chungcheongbuk-do) pronounce it slightly higher than I do, about halfway between /ʌ/ and /ɤ/. However, lip-rounding is a common feature in younger people's speech (reflected in my cousins living in Seoul and Jeonju), which might cause you to interpret ㅓ to sound more like /ɔ/.
The_Real_Mongoose · 1 points · Posted at 01:40:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
There's definitely variation across regional dialects and age, but also, it's not exactly the same for all words. That's all I really meant.
ArchKDE · 1 points · Posted at 01:53:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ah, I see. I personally pronounce ㅓ as /ʌ/ regardless of where the vowel is placed, and still pronounce 고려 as /k̥oɾjʌ/ as opposed to /k̥oɾjɔ/. But I can certainly see how someone else could pronounce it more like the latter.
The_Real_Mongoose · 1 points · Posted at 02:09:08 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That makes sense. It seems to me that when a syllable doesnt have a an ending consonent, that people tend to make more of an "aw" sound, at least in Seoul dialect. But though Ive been living here for a long time, I'm not a native speaker, and I could be mistaken.
pokll · 5 points · Posted at 22:38:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Goes both ways, in Korea the USA is 미국, Miguk.
mankstar · 5 points · Posted at 23:05:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
During the Korean War, Korean refugees/civilians would cry out to the American soldiers for help. The Korean word for America is 미국 which is pronounced "me-gook"; this led the Americans thought the Koreans were introducing themselves as gooks.
onacho · 2 points · Posted at 23:18:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh the stories my 84 year old friend tells about his times in the Korean war as a young US soldier. He gave me a color slide of a photo he took of a young North Korean soldier tied to a pole in their encampment. He said the Southern soldiers came and took him away in the middle of the night never to be seen again. He was someone's son, and somewhere nobody knows what happened to him in the end.
Pennysworthe · 2 points · Posted at 22:46:25 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Which literally translates as "beautiful country"
[deleted] · 4 points · Posted at 23:04:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I thought maybe "Land of Tires"
awindwaker · 1 points · Posted at 23:31:28 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Same as in mandarin (Chinese)
Mei is also beautiful 美國(pronounced mei guo) =beautiful country
ridunkulous · 2 points · Posted at 00:46:44 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
yup because it's just korean pronunciation of the chinese letters. Koreans used exact same chinese letters so while I am guessing, it is almost certain koreans took the word from china
nijlpaardje · 1 points · Posted at 23:07:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's "고려," and you're right.
GreatValueProducts · 1 points · Posted at 23:55:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
As a Cantonese speaker, I find it extremely interesting that when I look at the administrative divisions or names or cuisines of Korea and pronounce their respective Hanja in Cantonese, they all sound awkwardly similar to the Korean latinisation.
In Cantonese, Korea is Hon Kwok, incheon is Yan Chuen (the British latinisation). You won't find that similarity between mandarin and korean, or Japanese and Cantonese
jankay2 · 0 points · Posted at 00:56:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
no Mandarin also has many similar sounding words with Korean. Try counting 1 to 10 in Mandarin and in Korean. You'd be surprised.
myfault · 1 points · Posted at 23:58:43 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The word in portuguese is Japão, phonetically I think that the word comes only from Cipan, the Guó is just extra sound that you don't hear in the portuguese word for Japan.
rangi1218 · 1 points · Posted at 02:00:02 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sorry for Chinese characters but Will a united Korea be called 韓国 or 朝鮮? It's something I have thought about often
butt4nice · 47 points · Posted at 22:28:37 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Basically language is based on use, as in what's popular. There is no real way or correct way to say anything in the grand scheme of things. We basically use the words that we know will communicate our points. Of course, that's just one theory, but one I like very much
Noremad_0gre_1123 · 5 points · Posted at 22:44:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The words you used here in your explanation communicated your point very well. Just so you know. Good job!
TheRedJester · 3 points · Posted at 23:08:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Right. I understand where people get the idea "Well if that's what they call themselves, that must be the one correct name" but that doesn't necessarily ring true for language.
If all 7 billion people in the world called me Steve, but I alone insisted my name was Fliboflaggiz, what would you say my "real" name is?
Of course that example is purposely silly to prove a point, but it should call into question why we would consider one name more or less correct than another. Different languages already have all sorts of different words for things, why can't they have different words to describe each other?
Language is about what's useful, the only "right" and "wrong" depends on context (like how your teacher or boss wants things done) and of course some amount of grammatical rules to keep it useful.
butt4nice · 5 points · Posted at 23:32:35 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I feel it. My completely non-professional opinion about it is that humans get really hung up on meaning and truth. That hang up kind of blinds us to the context of our reality. And of course that context is our own human one. Whatever rules or systems we create are only as effective as people want them to be.
DaSaw · 5 points · Posted at 22:58:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
NO. WORDS HAVE EXACT COSMIC MEANINGS AND I KNOW WHAT THEY ARE. I REFUSE TO ENGAGE IN ANY ACTUAL ARGUMENT, PREFERRING POINTLESS PEDANTRY. </s>
EndlessEnds · 1 points · Posted at 00:47:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Tell that to the people who correct you when you say "me and frank" rather than "Frank, and I"
P_Money69 · 1 points · Posted at 00:56:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Grammar is different than spelling and words words.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 02:18:57 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
EndlessEnds · 1 points · Posted at 02:31:14 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's a great explanation for why the Frank and I formula is correct.
But, does that hold true in Australia, where "me an' my mate" is clearly not only appropriate, but required?
AnComsWantItBack · 2 points · Posted at 03:04:29 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Typically, it's grammatically correct in informal speech, but in formal speech it's incorrect.
Abstract-ion · 7 points · Posted at 22:29:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because the Portuguese got the name from Wu Chinese word for Japan, "Cippon" (Chippon) and it was translated from there in European languages.
Querce · 5 points · Posted at 23:07:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
How about Sunrise land?
AnticitizenPrime · 1 points · Posted at 22:58:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Okay, let's go deeper. Why did the Chinese call it Chippon?
Ansoni · 3 points · Posted at 23:23:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because while Japan and Chinese share a writing system they pronounce the characters differently. Effectively not so different from English Paris (pariss) and French Paris (Parii)
If you look up 日本 (nihon/nippon, both are valid readings in Japanese) on wiktionary you can see all the different pronunciations the word has in different Chinese dialects.
dfschmidt · 1 points · Posted at 23:44:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So you're saying they the Japanese and Chinese use the very same symbols for the name of Japan, but they just pronounce them differently?
Ansoni · 2 points · Posted at 00:02:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yep.
Chinese characters aren't phonetic, so people across China whose dialects were originally different languages (whether or not they still are or are just dialects is actually debatable) can read the writing from anyone else in China and completely understand it (provided they can read. There's also the simplified/traditional split but it's fairly common to be able to read both). This was once applicable to a certain degree in Korea and Japan but they've both split very far from Chinese language and their writing systems, while based on Chinese characters, are very distinct now. Japanese still uses them but mixed with derived characters.
Gui_Montag · 45 points · Posted at 22:26:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
TIFL
_Person_ · 88 points · Posted at 22:38:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Today I fucking learned?
roeravid · 85 points · Posted at 22:43:20 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Today I found Lord
SpottyNoonerism · 2 points · Posted at 22:51:55 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Today I found loot.
CuvisTheConqueror · 1 points · Posted at 23:08:12 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Man, that was an awesome game back in the BBS days. Glad to hear some people are still discovering its joys for the first time.
CubGames · 1 points · Posted at 23:28:50 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Unfortunately, it was Lord Vader.
pm_me_ur_dicknballs · 1 points · Posted at 00:59:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Today I Found Lorde
WalkerBRiley · 1 points · Posted at 22:56:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I did think I felt his Noodley Appendage the other day....
_Bungholio_ · 1 points · Posted at 23:25:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Today I felch lambs
ReubenZWeiner · 1 points · Posted at 23:31:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Today I fondled llamas
arefucked · 0 points · Posted at 22:46:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Today I fucked lord
maran999 · 6 points · Posted at 22:47:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Today I fined loiterers
HiHoJufro · 8 points · Posted at 22:43:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, it's just from some other language. It doesn't quite translate to anything in English.
reigorius · 5 points · Posted at 23:20:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Today I Fingered Lisa
JangB · 1 points · Posted at 01:21:11 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Bart?
jimbojones230 · 2 points · Posted at 01:17:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Today I farted loudly
kethian · 3 points · Posted at 22:43:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
TYFL
yourbiggestfan · 1 points · Posted at 02:28:14 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Thank You For Lunch
Sefirot8 · 2 points · Posted at 22:52:35 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
YES. TODAY I FUCKING LEARNED
lustywench99 · 1 points · Posted at 22:56:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You're gonna learn today! Alright-alright-alright!
enidblack · 1 points · Posted at 03:22:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Today i fucked lots
k3vin187 · 1 points · Posted at 02:42:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Today I found love?
P00PMcBUTTS · 1 points · Posted at 22:44:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
This guy fucking learned today!
arefucked · 1 points · Posted at 22:45:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Today I fucked learning?
X0AN · 5 points · Posted at 22:47:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
As someone with a phonetic Galician name I've yet to come across a native English speaker that can pronounce it correctly.
I lost track of the amount of times English speakers tell me why not just spell it xxx instead.
My name is already phonetic, what you are attempting is to make it phonetic in English and even then it's still quite off as you don't have the same sounds in English but it's better than nothing for English speakers who are never going to say it properly anyhow so may as well make it at least a bit closer.
Which is essentially happens when we translate city/country names.
Gangreless · 2 points · Posted at 01:24:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's in Spain, right?
X0AN · 1 points · Posted at 00:35:14 on December 11, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes, the north-west.
TheLordKnowsBest · 3 points · Posted at 22:29:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
In China they call themselves Zhongguo.
TerminusZest · 3 points · Posted at 22:32:08 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Same reason we call it Bavaria instead of Bayern. Or Florence instead of Firenze.
MatlockMan · 8 points · Posted at 22:34:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wait I've been living in Germany for three months and I haven't realised Bayern is the same thing as Bavaria. FUCK
Silitha · 4 points · Posted at 22:42:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You are aware of Cologne/Köln?
MatlockMan · 1 points · Posted at 09:10:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah and Munich München
DailyMash · 1 points · Posted at 23:17:23 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Holy cow did not know this neither til now and I lived there from 91-95 (admittedly I was just a kid then) The team name Bayern Munich is literally just the state\county name then town of the club like renaming Man Utd as 'Lancashire Manchester' or Arsenal as 'Middlesex London'
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 02:48:39 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Bayern-Munich.
Well fuck me.
jai151 · 2 points · Posted at 22:29:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
They actually do call themselves Japan as well, though that's recently. We (the West as a whole) call them Japan because that was the way it was pronounced in the dialect of China through which we were introduced.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Japan
Nisas · 3 points · Posted at 23:52:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's quite fortunate that Japan is actually a word the japanese language can pronounce. Japanese is quite limited in terms of the words they can pronounce because of how their alphabet works. For example, they can't really pronounce alphabet. They'd have to turn it into alufabeto or something.
jai151 · 1 points · Posted at 00:45:48 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Avid anime watcher, so I'm used to the Japan-ized English words. They can usually get pretty close using katakana, at least close enough that it's intelligible.
But it's not really fortunate, it came from a certain dialect of Chinese pronouncing "Nippon", so it wouldn't be too different
Infinity2quared · 2 points · Posted at 22:31:08 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
English can get away with straight up borrowing names, because English nouns don't carry much descriptive information. But when you're talking about a name that has traveled through Latin or Greek, it can't be used in those languages without being modified.
Also keep in mind that there are different writing systems involved, so "translations" will vary in spelling... and it will be the written name that is transmitted so with repeated translations it gets farther and farther from the phonetic original.
I do think that Anglicization is pretty pointless and annoying, though.
C21H27Cl3N2O3 · 2 points · Posted at 22:32:43 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Why do we call Deutschland Germany? Or Россия Russia? Everything is localized.
Dragonquiz · 2 points · Posted at 22:37:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
This might help you in your travels one day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Japan
...(specifically from the Dutch or some other european country at the time)
ulkord · 1 points · Posted at 22:28:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not sure how accurate this is:
http://www.sljfaq.org/afaq/japan.html
http://www.livinglanguage.com/community/discussion/135/the-origin-of-the-word-japan/p1
ArmanDoesStuff · 1 points · Posted at 22:57:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Til
jted007 · 1 points · Posted at 22:58:11 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Why do we call it the Netherlands when they call it Dutch land? The Netherlands is essentially the same thing I call my private parts. I call them my nether regions.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:01:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Relevant: in Japanese, they call Jesus イエス (iesu, pronounced like "yesu"), so they're using a name translated from Hebrew to Greek to Latin to English to Japanese.
Pronouncing "Jesus" in Japanese is pretty tough, so ironically their adaptation of the name from English sounds more similar to Joshua/Yeshu/etc. than Jesus does.
mrmanuke · 1 points · Posted at 00:35:26 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Where did you get that info? My google searches indicate that the Japanese "イエス" came from the greek form "Iēsous". https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%A4%E3%82%A8%E3%82%B9
Also, the American pronunciation of "Jesus" is very easy for Japanese. They would say ジーザス, which would sound vitually identical to the American pronunciation, as the "u" sound is often omitted when a word ends in "su", as in です or いきます.
hairyotter · 1 points · Posted at 23:03:12 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The deeper question is why would we call them by a phonetic bastardization of their name when it actually signifies something in the language it is in? You should call Japan "Land of the Sun's Origin" and China "The Middle Kingdom"
IWantToBeAProducer · 1 points · Posted at 23:15:43 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
TIL
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:16:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
We could have, but the Portuguese nipped that possibility in the bud.
lesslucid · 1 points · Posted at 23:17:31 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
A simple example is the country "Chile". Most anglophones will pronounce this as /'tʃɪlɪ/, whereas the original pronunciation is /'tʃɪle/. (If you don't read IPA, basically the last syllable sounds like the "eh" sound the "e" makes in "men" or "den"). Anglophones are perfectly capable of pronouncing that /e/ sound, and have no trouble saying the word the way it is originally. So, why don't we? Well, we're just not used to ending a word with an /e/ sound. It feels "weird". So, given a choice between saying it "correctly" and making up a new pronunciation that feels less weird, guess what we opt for 95% of the time? Hence the "translation" of proper nouns.
SkollFenrirson · 1 points · Posted at 23:19:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Even they have more than one way to call themselves.
Derwos · 1 points · Posted at 23:23:20 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I've come across that opinion about Japan's pronunciation before. But I can't understand what it is about the pronunciation of Japan that's different from saying Germany instead of Deutschland. It's just how we say it here. So what? There's nothing wrong with that.
CubGames · 1 points · Posted at 23:28:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Can't believe I never knew this, but TIL that the Japanese call their country Nippon. Guess you do learn something new every day.
Question: Do all Japanese refer to Japan as Nippon, or is it rare or only used in certain context?
paytona_500 · 1 points · Posted at 23:28:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I didn't know this until now. I had never thought about this before (just as a general idea), I feel as if my eyes have been opened a bit, almost a little ignorant, but my mind is blown nonetheless - and for that I thank you :)
batclocks · 1 points · Posted at 23:32:20 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Different cultures will have names for land areas other than their own before that land area establishes a name for itself in its own language.
Example, the French word for Germany is "Allemagne," having been derived from a name for that land area before it was communicated that the people of that area called it whatever they did in their own language (modern German: Deutschland).
Dr_Fetus_Jackson · 1 points · Posted at 23:34:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
C'mon, Japan just sounds cooler tho.
Nick700 · 1 points · Posted at 23:35:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
They call it Nihon now, Nippon was more common during the war
Psyladine · 1 points · Posted at 23:41:54 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Why do we call them 'OP' instead of the original "faggot"? Mysteries about.
tissuebox119 · 1 points · Posted at 23:44:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
TIL
yourbodyisapoopgun · 1 points · Posted at 23:45:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well actually 61% of Japanese pronounce it Nihon, so it would make more sense to call it 'Nihon' than Nippon. Source
isaacbee1 · 1 points · Posted at 23:45:04 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Same reason we call Zhong Guo (directly translated as "middle country"), China. Early explorers misinterpreted what they assumed was the name of the country.
yourbodyisapoopgun · 1 points · Posted at 23:45:04 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well actually 61% of Japanese pronounce it Nihon, so it would make more sense to call it 'Nihon' than Nippon. Source
the_unusable · 1 points · Posted at 00:18:24 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think this is what's most fucked. Say you have a quest to reach japan and you're lost and you ask people for directions.
"How do I get to Japan??"
"wtf is a Japan?"
NinjaTurkey_ · 1 points · Posted at 00:19:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because a lot of the time, the original name in the original language have sounds that do not exist in the new language. Even "Nippon" is not an entirely accurate transcription. The syllable represented by "on"[on] is not a possible syllable in English, so English speakers will pronounce [ni'pon] it as [ni'pɑn] or [ni'pə͡ʊn].
Even more potent examples can be found in languages with more restricted phonologies, like Mandarin. Take the name of the city "Fresno" for example. In Mandarin it is transliterated as 弗雷斯诺 (fú léi sī nuò) because the syllables found in "Fresno" are not legal syllables in Mandarin.
The point is that no two languages share identical phonologies so that each and every word can be perfectly transliterated. There will always be discrepancies that force adjustment.
ananioperim · 1 points · Posted at 00:20:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Finns call Swedes Russians.
Finns call Russians Wends.
Russians call Germans mutes.
Poles call Italians Welsh.
Turks call Greece Ionistan
Arabs call Jerusalem "the Holy".
improbable_humanoid · 1 points · Posted at 00:26:15 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Actually it's either Nihon or Nippon (roughly, "the origin of the sun": pretty full of themselves...). There's two ways to say it.
China on the other hand has a few names but it should be Zhongguo (the middle kingdom, i.e., they thought it was the center of the world, those cheeky b's) or Zhonghua. China apparently comes from the Qin dynasty.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:28:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
TIL Japan is actually Nippon.
Now Snow Crash talking about the Nipponese makes so much more sense.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:30:30 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's just linguistic evolution. Japan sounds similar to Jipin which is similar to Nippon. Consider that jipin is just Nippon in a slightly German accent, and it bocmes clear that it's just people's accents. Japan is a flat a Americanization of that German corruption of Nippon.
nae_co · 1 points · Posted at 00:39:11 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
And that's the Chinese name anyway. Think about it: why would Japanese people call their land 日本 (sun origin) if they're fucking sitting on it? It comes from the Chinese perspective: oh those islands that lie where the sun comes from.
The name of Japan is actually kinda weird. There's no legally official name although 日本 is written in the Constitution etc. But! Even within Japan there are two ways to read it: Nihon and Nippon.
jew_jitsu · 1 points · Posted at 00:42:17 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Why do they call us Oooostaraleeea when we call ourselves 'Straya???
Shautieh · 1 points · Posted at 00:42:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Have you either learn languages other than English? Because they don't..
Japanese people probably wouldn't even understand that your pronunciation of 'Nippon' actually refers to the same word they use for their country.
AllegroDigital · 1 points · Posted at 00:44:08 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The country actually has no official pronunciation.
At least according to RocketNews
var-username · 1 points · Posted at 00:46:29 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Similar to Japan and Nippon, China is natively called 中国. The Pinyin for it is ZhongGou. Pinyin is based on Latin pronunciations with some slight modifications to fit the nuances of the spoken language. In Pinyin 'zh' makes a sound similar to an English 'J,' except with a lot more air at the start. The best way to accurately achieve the sound based only on English text is a 'ch' sound combined with a 'j' sound. Meaning it would make most sense for English speakers to write 中国 as 'JongGo,' but no. We decided to call it 'China.' Source: US student learning Mandarin
butt-guy · 1 points · Posted at 00:57:30 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Or how España becomes Spain. Wtf. I'd much rather call those places by their domestic names.
AnotherThroneAway · 1 points · Posted at 01:07:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
As a devil's thought experiment: Why should a name a group gives itself be more valid than the name another group gives them?
I could go around calling myself Captain Bad-to-the-ass and tell everybody to do the same, but they're under no obligation to call me any such thing.
oarsman44 · 1 points · Posted at 01:12:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
TIL...
Pennwisedom · 1 points · Posted at 01:19:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You'll love it in Mandarin then, where it's "riben" as said here. But you can see the origin of Nippon (Even earlier something like Juppon, but the J sound changed to N and the "P" is also in the process of going away) in Cantonese also here
tdeasyweb · 1 points · Posted at 01:46:11 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Canada tried. When the white mans first arrived and asked what the place was called, the natives misunderstood, pointed to their village and said "Kanata" (village).
I mean even though they stole their land, murdered them, brought disease, A+ effort on naming their land.
PM_ME_YOUR_THESES · 1 points · Posted at 01:50:49 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Did you know that the correct pronunciation of Mexico is "May-he-co"?
Fun fact, the "x" was the old Spanish "j", which has an "h"-like sound in Spanish. In Spain, some textbooks listed the country's name as "Méjico" after the "x" was replaced by the "j" in regular speech, but the country decided to keep the old spelling and pronunciation.
spaceywilly · 1 points · Posted at 01:58:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
India/Bharat is another one
MechanicalEngineEar · 1 points · Posted at 02:00:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
because pronunciation doesn't even translate over exactly when you try to. I worked for a japanese company and the spelling and pronunciation for the country varied from Nippon to Nihon with no clear consensus on which should be the correct translation.
It is no different than people taking on local names instead of relying on people trying to pronounce your name when the local language doesn't even contain the sounds that make up that name.
JoshDM · 1 points · Posted at 02:05:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think it's like how Istanbul is Constantinople, but that's nobody's business but the Turks.
janosaudron · 1 points · Posted at 02:07:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
hayyeh · 1 points · Posted at 02:10:11 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Is it the same as Germany calling itself Deutschland?
mlmayo · 1 points · Posted at 02:24:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
We won the war.
ElfieStar · 1 points · Posted at 03:38:49 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Calling Japan Nippon isn't quite right either, actually. In Japanese, the word is 日本, or Nihon lol.
_The_Real_Guy_ · 1 points · Posted at 03:44:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'd like to point out that while many Japanese pronounce is nippon, much more pronounced it Nihon.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 03:55:43 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It can be both Nihon and Nippon, actually. There are some minor conventions for which to use, but both are valid in all cases, it's just a case of what sounds right to a native. For example, the language is "nihongo" and almost never "nippongo". I've also heard the less-preferred pronunciation used in music a couple times to match the beat (nihon is 3 beats, while nippon is 4).
Irrelevant factoid man, away! *smokebomb*
Hypocritical_Oath · 1 points · Posted at 04:03:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Or Nihon.
_a_random_dude_ · 1 points · Posted at 04:11:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I find the fact that we call China China because of an old (and not particularly long) dynasty even more funny.
Watch this, very interesting.
ikorolou · 1 points · Posted at 04:16:19 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well cuz then all our racism about Japanese people being into weird porn would just be filled with "nips" jokes, and do you really want to have to deal with that?
Repentant_Revenant · 1 points · Posted at 04:54:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
There's no one who "sets the rules" for language, and when people try to, everyone just ignores them. Language develops naturally and organically.
The real question isn't "why" we should name something a certain way, it's "why not?"
DiaDeLosMuertos · 1 points · Posted at 04:56:00 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Germany > Deutschland (Alemania in Spanish)
Scotland is Escocia in Spanish
SquatchHugs · 1 points · Posted at 05:08:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because people are tribal and don't give a fuck what the neighbor's tribe calls itself.
"You know, your names are all weird and confusing and we were REALLY hoping to get to India sooo... you're all just Indians now, okay?"
"No, I really think we should be called what we've been called for generatio-"
"This is a gun. You're a fucking Indian now deal with it."
Zombiedisease · 1 points · Posted at 05:11:24 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Honestly, this is just shines light on other reasons other countries see US as arrogant. Just making up random words to call things, ie Germans call their country Deutchland yet we came up with Germany. You know because reasons
HippieKillerHoeDown · 1 points · Posted at 05:17:18 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
We used to. For some reason it changed like 80 years ago or more. It's marked as Nippon in an old atlas I have, and racists call them "Nippers" yet for a reason.
Ua_Tsaug · 1 points · Posted at 05:33:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Japanese actually call their country "Nihon", not "Nippon".
ImYour_Huckleberry · 1 points · Posted at 05:47:12 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Another one like this is "Moscow." The city's actual name is "Москва" (Moskva). It's not like saying "Moscow is any easier than saying "Moskva." Even "Russia" is kind of weird. "Rossiya" would be closer than "Russia."
isamu89 · 1 points · Posted at 06:09:53 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Actually it's Nihon....
CitizenPremier · 1 points · Posted at 08:22:33 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You'd have to learn a lot of new phonemes to call places what the people there call them. Try to say "Iraq" the way this woman does!
Aeirsoner · 1 points · Posted at 12:57:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nihon
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 13:10:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Shuko · 1 points · Posted at 15:24:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I thought they called themselves "Nihon". :)
Snoopy_Hates_Germans · 1 points · Posted at 22:30:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because the Japanese language has changed a bunch in hundreds of years, and the Portuguese and the Dutch had their own imperfect representations of other languages' names for the country, which in turn were imperfectly adapted to English.
shadovvvvalker · 1 points · Posted at 22:44:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Moskva
Nippon
Deutschland
Murcia
As long as the people who use them frequently know what they mean language doesn't care b
Fresh4 · 0 points · Posted at 22:28:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
You think the typical American is going to be able to pronounce "Deutschland" when referring to Germany?
edit: am i wrong though?
april9th · 3 points · Posted at 22:46:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The typical American can do whatever they're taught to do. They managed to work their tongue around Schwarzenegger when he garnered the respect for people to bother. Most people pronounce what they can be bothered to. Americans aren't morons they're just chauvinists like everyone else, except they're the paramount nation so are paramount chauvinists.
Fresh4 · 1 points · Posted at 22:58:15 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's a good point, though in my defense it's not a particularly easy name for most of us to pronounce, as well as plenty of jokes calling him "shorts nigger" the same way I've heard many jokes of "Deutschland" as "douche land". I'm sure most people just call him Arnold when talking about him in context just for brevity and simplicity (I know I do anyways).
I'm not saying we're incapable, just that it's much easier to pronounce something that's already kinda native to our tongue in terms of grammar and pronunciation of words.
MChibana · 2 points · Posted at 22:32:31 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
In that case, Freud's name should be translated
Fresh4 · 2 points · Posted at 22:45:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I mean tbh freud is fairly simple, but Deutschland is a bit more complicated spelling wise and would probably be pronounced "douche land". I mean we have plenty of words pronounced differently to the way they're spelled.
Darkbloomy · 0 points · Posted at 22:27:37 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well how could people know they called themselves that 1000 years ago? They didn't. So they named it themselves.
zapee · 1 points · Posted at 22:34:22 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Logic
[deleted] · 46 points · Posted at 22:40:23 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
gootwo · 8 points · Posted at 00:12:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ibittha
Laurasaur28 · 2 points · Posted at 02:54:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ith in Ethpaaaaaaña
thunderling · 7 points · Posted at 23:20:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The best is when people do that in words that aren't even supposed to have a rolled R, or they put an ñ sound in a word that just has a regular n.
porncrank · 10 points · Posted at 02:03:49 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You say no one cares, but here you are making an issue out of it.
I have family in England that live in "Bath". They pronounce it "Bahth". It sounds weird and wrong to me if I call the town "Bath" with the American pronunciation. But I'm sure whenever I use the regular pronunciation, some prick thinks I'm being pretentious.
Shawwnzy · 2 points · Posted at 01:57:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Any time you want to pronounce city the way locals do imagine your talking about visiting Parie.
flyboyblue · 3 points · Posted at 00:51:00 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Good on him for attempting to use the correct pronounciation!
P_Money69 · 1 points · Posted at 00:56:49 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nah, comes off as pretentious.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:59:17 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
Epicentera · 1 points · Posted at 08:19:43 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm not entirely sure, but I've had the same complaint when pronouncing croissant or pain chocolat the French way.
Or saying Uruguay the Spanish way, even though it's the same in Swedish and that's how I've said it my entire life (i was speaking English at the time).
ETA that actually I think I know. People around you get the feeling that you are subtly trying to "correct" their pronunciation, and get annoyed
TremendoSlap · 1 points · Posted at 04:37:15 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Relevant Omid Djalili standup comedy bit
[deleted] · 10 points · Posted at 22:40:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well if you worship the guy
You'd think you'd bother to figure out what his mother called him
bisonburgers · 3 points · Posted at 00:39:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Meta.
LeVictoire · 2 points · Posted at 22:56:54 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah. In Japanese my name would be 'ReBikutoiru', because they can't pronounce 'L' or 'V'.
Also, squirrel in germany would be skvirl
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 22:59:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
We were planning our Euro trip 10 years back, one on the net, the other deep in a Lonely Planet: "Seems we should go to Florence" "yeah, and this one says we HAVE to go to Firenze, only I can't find it on the map"
fallofshadows · 2 points · Posted at 23:22:36 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
My favorites are calling München Munich or calling Köln Cologne. The second one isn't even close.
Copper_Tango · 1 points · Posted at 23:57:31 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Cologne is from French, derived from the ancient Latin name for the place, Colonia.
fallofshadows · 1 points · Posted at 05:01:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I've never heard that before, but seeing as French spelling makes no sense, I believe you.
CuteThingsAndLove · 4 points · Posted at 22:26:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
They would work though. People just need to learn the right name. Like why do we call them Germany, thats not anything close to what they call themselves.
Acrolith · 3 points · Posted at 22:33:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, a lot of names can't really be pronounced in English, because those languages use different sounds. Hungary is "Magyarország", and the "gy" sound is extremely difficult to pronounce for English people, since that sound doesn't exist in any English words.
InZomnia365 · 2 points · Posted at 22:32:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I mean, not all of them work. Some of course would, but theyre still called a lot of different thing in various languages. But there are a lot of linguistic rules etc that can make things difficult.
fritzvonamerika · 2 points · Posted at 22:33:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Clearly it is supposed to be Allemagne
Si_vis_pacem_ · 1 points · Posted at 23:09:35 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because they are our neighbours
GooseNZ · 1 points · Posted at 23:04:01 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I have always wondered this too.
"So, what do you call this country?" "España" "Cool. Mind if we call it SPAIN?"
thunderling · 3 points · Posted at 23:23:03 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I understand something like Mexico. We spell it the same way, but english speakers see an X and say "ecks" instead of pronouncing Mexico the way they do in Mexico.
But english speakers are perfectly capable of pronouncing España... hell why not even just Espana, without the ñ? It's closer than "spane."
Kered13 · 2 points · Posted at 04:04:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well it was "Hispania" before it was "España". Apparently this became "Spania" in Late Latin, from which we get modern English "Spain".
rolandhorn27 · 1 points · Posted at 23:10:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Poor Germany... No one calls them by their name.
inexcess · 1 points · Posted at 23:23:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
We didn't translate Spanish city names in the Southwest
InZomnia365 · 1 points · Posted at 23:29:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You probably dont say them "correctly" either (not all of them anyway). Just look at Des Moines and how people say that, for example :P
metalpotato · 1 points · Posted at 01:31:57 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The Angels. Flowery. Snowy. The Floodplains.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:36:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
metalpotato · 1 points · Posted at 01:39:02 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The Savior. Rich Port. Depths. Rich Coast. Silvery.
dfschmidt · 1 points · Posted at 23:37:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't think linguistics is plural. To be specific, https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/linguistics#Noun says that it is uncountable.
So the conjugation of to be here should be "is".
InZomnia365 · 2 points · Posted at 23:42:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You learn something new every day, it seems...
I could just play the "not a native speaker" card, though :P
top_gek · 1 points · Posted at 00:19:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Praise Jehoshua !
sundevil98 · 1 points · Posted at 00:25:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I've never understood this either.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:29:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
But if your name is Steve, and the French version is Stephan, or some such, does it not enrage you being called otherwise?
Likewise, if an Italian Stephano comes to America, we do not call him Steve.
daimposter · 1 points · Posted at 01:01:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Work". Does it matter? What English speaker really cares or knows 'Germany'? Why not just call it by what they call themselves, duetchland or whatever
InZomnia365 · 1 points · Posted at 02:11:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Its not that simple. English isnt the only language with different names for other countries and its cities - its the case for a whole lot of languages. And many of those have vastly different linguistic rules etc that can make it difficult. A lot of Germans cant properly pronounce the word "squirrel" because they dont know how to make the right sounds. In the same vein, a lot of Indian people speak perfect English in the grammatical sense, but they usually have the stereotypical 'Indian-English accent'.
Its a lot more complicated than "Deutschland", which is easy to say in English.
xTRS · 1 points · Posted at 01:31:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I really think is this age of global economy, we should strive to call countries by their proper names or the closest approximation we can make in our language. It seems weird to tell Deutschland, "nah that name doesn't work for us. We're just gonna call you something else." Even if we butcher the names at first because they are unfamiliar, I think it's the thought that counts. Another commenter pointed out that we have made the switch from Peking to Beijing. Just keep that trend going.
Valianttheywere · 1 points · Posted at 01:46:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ngulwun is the first human-neanderthal in Australia putting him at 40,000BC (introduction of ng phonetic by modern humans). Ulwun would be alvin if his neanderthal ancestors had stayed in europe...like bulya (ilya), bulla (ella), tulu (tula), wulgaru (olga).
Joshua is eastern asian in origin. Shu-wa. Nu-wa is considered creator goddess of the ng humans amongst chinese legends. They ditch the tadpole symbol infavour of nu-wa's intestines on their banner forming first chinese culture.
ohitsasnaake · 1 points · Posted at 02:07:49 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Heck, it used to be pretty common to translate people's names as well, e.g. regnal names i.e. kings and such*, as well as when people immigrated to the US and so forth. Even today people traveling abroad might use a local variant.
In Finland is used to be common practice to "localize" the names of royals in other countries. Swedish kings named Gustav were Kustaa, Russian Tsars named Pyotr are Peter in English and Pietari in Finnish, all 3 names being the language in question's variant for St. Peter's name. Nowadays (past 20+ years?) the language institute has recommended against doing it anymore.
InZomnia365 · 1 points · Posted at 02:21:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Older people in my country, and sometimes the media, still do sometimes use our variations of the names when talking about other European regents - particularly ones that have relatively strong ties to our own royal family etc.
ohitsasnaake · 1 points · Posted at 02:25:57 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
They were still common here in at least e.g. kids' rhymes in the 90s, no idea if those have survived. They were still used at least occasionally in the 90s in formal (history books, journalism) contexts too. Most often seen with Swedish, Russian and British regnal names, since those were among the easier ones to translate, it's practically always just the saint's name. They're also the ones most historically relevant or otherwise discussed.
elhan_kitten · 1 points · Posted at 02:11:17 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Exactly. In Turkish Jesus is called Isa. Pronounced Eesa.
Stoppels · 1 points · Posted at 03:07:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Heh.
gamwizrd1 · 1 points · Posted at 03:16:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
IMO we shouldn't. Countries should just name themselves. Forget the stupid reasons we had for the wrong names we invented; they already have their own name.
MisPosMol · 1 points · Posted at 03:16:29 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The Italian places get me. Florence for Firenze, Naples for Napoli, Rome for Roma. And then there's Roma in Queensland, which everyone calls Roma???
Froli92 · 1 points · Posted at 03:33:15 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Why don't we just come up with a universal language?
InZomnia365 · 1 points · Posted at 04:09:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Esperanto?
hartyFL · 1 points · Posted at 03:47:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Why is Kansas (Can-sus) and Arkansas (Are-can-saw)? Why is is not (Are-can-sus)?
InZomnia365 · 1 points · Posted at 04:13:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I believe its something to do with Kansas being English spelling (and consequently pronunciation), while Arkansas was French. Something along those lines.
bluetruckapple · 1 points · Posted at 03:58:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Do we? Isn't Chicago the same everywhere because that's its name? Honestly, I don't know.
InZomnia365 · 1 points · Posted at 04:18:12 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, my language tends to use the native spellings for most cities (not necessarily countries), but we definitely butcher the pronunciation. I wouldnt be surprised if 'Chicago' was written/pronounced differently in some random languages to make it work for them. I dont know of any, though.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 04:04:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
InZomnia365 · 1 points · Posted at 04:24:31 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sports broadcasters have a tough time, though. So many weird names. I watch motorsports, where people literally come from all over the world. Some announcers are terrible, while others have taken their time to research it - Im always impressed by those who manage to pronounce all these different names in quick succession when theres a lot going on!
gatling_gun_gary · 1 points · Posted at 05:30:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Depending on the situation, we may not. For example, while we translate "München" as "Munich" (the city in Germany), the Old Testament often leaves locality names untranslated, and only transliterated. See Ai ("עָי," a city (pronounced "eye" but meaning "heap of ruins") in Caanan or "כְּנָעַן" -- "Cana-an"/"the lowlands" or "the subjugated"). "The Negeb" in the OT works the same way, "הַנֶּגֶב" ("The Negev") literally means "The South" in Hebrew, yet it's usually transliterated in the scripture rather than translated.
the_horrible_reality · 1 points · Posted at 08:55:33 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because people don't want to learn. It's easier to collectively be assholes and call them whatever you want regardless of what they think of it.
cbstryker · 1 points · Posted at 15:45:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Hungary" is a fun one
Zarlon · 1 points · Posted at 22:33:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Except for Hugh Mungus. That works everywhere
Peany · 0 points · Posted at 23:06:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Istanbul was Constantinople. Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople. Been a long time gone, Constantinople. Now it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night.
slightlydirtythroway · 272 points · Posted at 22:18:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because it was roughly 2000 years ago, a lot changes
We don't call Julius Caesar "Guy-us I-ul-eus Kai-zair" Even though that was probably how it pronounced in his time
QuicksilverSasha · 261 points · Posted at 22:23:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I love the number of titles that came from his name though. Kaiser, tzar, and I think a couple others
clown-penisdotfart · 523 points · Posted at 22:34:36 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Salad
mitravelus · 143 points · Posted at 23:04:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Actually a ceasar salad is still pronounces "see-zar" because it was invented by a guy named ceasar cardini.
c0mad0r · 80 points · Posted at 23:07:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Which was invented in Tijuana, Mexico!
Go figure, right?
/San Diegan.
XXXTurkey · 16 points · Posted at 23:17:43 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Whale's Vaginan.
unsayablepeak · 11 points · Posted at 23:20:08 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Saint Diego-an* We'll agree to disagree.
c0mad0r · 7 points · Posted at 23:25:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The reason why we say "San Diegan" instead of "San Diego-an" is because it was the nickname given to the first "Coaster Train" that traveled from San Diego to Los Angeles back in the 1930's.
Sort of stuck as a nickname for residents around WWII and has stayed ever since (Source: San Diego Magazine, March 2006).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diegan_(train)
RexPerpetuus · 6 points · Posted at 23:57:04 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I had never previously heard of this, until I was in that restaurant having a salad a week ago. Now, I'm seeing it in the comment section for an article about Jesus. So weird...
c0mad0r · 2 points · Posted at 05:03:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Been going there about once a year for the past 34 years with family and/or friends. Always good food!
P_Money69 · 2 points · Posted at 00:57:30 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Gotta eat up after a donkey show.
tinycole2971 · 2 points · Posted at 03:41:19 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
mind blown
TIL (:
sniperzoo · 1 points · Posted at 00:19:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
hello from the south bay :)
c0mad0r · 1 points · Posted at 00:27:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hello from Eastlake, Chula Vista, South Bay :)
Kaganda · 3 points · Posted at 01:06:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hello from Meth Valley, aka El Cajon.
JangoBunBun · 1 points · Posted at 01:17:25 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
From El Cajon, can confirm "Meth Valley" is the English translation.
c0mad0r · 1 points · Posted at 02:35:47 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
I used to live off of Leslie Rd and Chase Ave (Villa Verde Apts) in the 80s, went to Chase Avenue Elementary and remember at least 3 apartment fires due to exploding bathroom tubs.
What are we going on, 15 years of it being the Meth Capital of California?
Also, El Kah-john was always my favorite tourist pronunciation.
sniperzoo · 1 points · Posted at 11:43:25 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm by the $4/$6 AMC! :D
I work in EC and my gf and I always mock Google Maps: "El Kah-hahn"
moonguidex · 1 points · Posted at 00:37:47 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Santiagoan.
bug_ridden_prototype · 2 points · Posted at 23:34:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Whose name was pronounced "say-zar."
Pao_Did_NothingWrong · 3 points · Posted at 00:05:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not positive about that. He was an Italian immigrant, not ethnic Mexian, and he didnt spell it "Cesar." he was born "Cesare," i.e. "cheh-suh-rey."
angrybabe72 · 1 points · Posted at 23:26:22 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
*Caesar
FTFY
willreignsomnipotent · 1 points · Posted at 00:41:57 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So had fate worked out a little differently, that might instead be called a "Frank salad" or a "Joshua salad?"
ExtremelyLongButtock · 1 points · Posted at 05:24:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That'd be Jesus Salad in Hebrew!
GetBenttt · 1 points · Posted at 00:47:33 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I thought it was invented by Ty Cobb
Iwantmyflag · 2 points · Posted at 23:37:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
DAAAAAAAAAAAD!
darthrobot · 2 points · Posted at 01:36:15 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
God dammit
jk3us · 2 points · Posted at 23:03:01 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Section.
cerebralinfarction · 1 points · Posted at 23:12:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Chicken Caesar, salad
repeatwad · 1 points · Posted at 00:50:24 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Section
djdementia · 1 points · Posted at 00:50:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Caesar Salad came from Tijuana Mexico from a Restaurant owner who's first name, not last name is Caeser.
He was an Italian immigrant that had restaurants in San Diego and Tijuana and was created in 1927 in Tijuana. It was trademarked in the United States first in 1950.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar_salad
You can visit his hotel and restaurant today! http://www.hotelcaesars.com.mx/en/home/
iamonlyoneman · 1 points · Posted at 02:16:39 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Tossed the thread in a whole new direction
d4rch0n · 1 points · Posted at 03:24:49 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
His name lives on in magnificence with a healthy heap of croutons
slightlydirtythroway · 24 points · Posted at 22:27:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Mhm, and typically because those titles came from his name translated through that particular language to come up with unique pronunciations that are internally consistent but not perfect with the original
loljetfuel · 3 points · Posted at 00:05:53 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sort of, but there was a fairly significant step in-between. Caesar was the cognomen (third name) of Gaius Julius Caesar; but it was adapted by later Roman rulers as a title, by means of the previous emperor adopting his successor and giving him the name.
By the time other countries started adopting (and therefore translating) "Caesar" it had become more title than name. Which means they weren't just modeling the name after Gaius Julius Caesar, but after the Roman Emperor as a position.
phunnycist · 5 points · Posted at 23:00:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
July. It's a good month, 'cause it contains my birthday.
TheBeardOfMoses · 5 points · Posted at 22:57:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Little Caesar's
DaneLimmish · 2 points · Posted at 23:05:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Qaisar-e-Rūm is another one.
dienamight · 1 points · Posted at 01:16:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Keizer in dutch
d4rch0n · 1 points · Posted at 03:24:08 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Holy shit? Really? That blows my mind.
So the family name of one great emperor turned into a synonym for "King" basically?
eypandabear · 1 points · Posted at 21:34:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The family name is Iulius, but other than that, yes.
i_am_not_important · 1 points · Posted at 04:24:24 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Gives us 2 and follows up with "and I think a couple others"
OH THE NUMBERS! :P
TheRedditoristo · -1 points · Posted at 23:08:15 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
his title, not his name
Fwendly_Mushwoom · 4 points · Posted at 00:19:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, Caesar was his actual name, and the actual name of the first emperors (by adoption).
Because of this, the name became so associated with power that it became the title, even after the Julio-Claudian dynasty died out.
TheRedditoristo · 7 points · Posted at 00:27:47 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
TIL
AMP_the_AXE · 0 points · Posted at 23:07:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Mr. Dog
FashionSense · 0 points · Posted at 23:38:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sultan and Shah iirc
Fwendly_Mushwoom · 3 points · Posted at 00:14:02 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, Shah and Sultan have nothing to do with Caesar.
truthofmasks · 18 points · Posted at 23:32:25 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I always thought Julius was pronounced Yu-li-us at his time.
Dr_OW · 14 points · Posted at 23:46:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It was. His is pretty incorrect.
wallyhartshorn · 7 points · Posted at 03:00:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It was "Iulius", which was originally pronounced "ee-yulius". Over time the pronunciation became "yulius", then "julius". Similarly, "Iupiter" was pronounced "ee-yupiter", then "yupiter", then "jupiter".
Source: A recent episode of the History of English podcast.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 16:39:55 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What if you went back in time and it was like "BLARK ME FOO CHOO CHOO." You'd be like, wow, they really got that one wrong.
Infinity2quared · 39 points · Posted at 22:34:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I much prefer that pronounciatuin though. I also prefer the spelling Caius.
shrugs
[deleted] · 48 points · Posted at 23:32:03 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
How do you pronounce that?
Infinity2quared · 19 points · Posted at 23:41:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oops.
raveturned · 16 points · Posted at 01:09:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Terribly!
melibelli · 2 points · Posted at 02:51:44 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
prun-oun-see-AH-too-een
shlam16 · 1 points · Posted at 03:17:11 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
pro-nown-see-at-you-in
larvyde · 1 points · Posted at 04:21:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Rhymes with turtle
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 01:32:19 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 07:19:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's not the K/C/G/Q thing that gets me, it's that they all can have a secret w behind them ready to jump out and fuck you up just when you think you're finally getting somewhere.
Same "invisible w" thing happens in Celtic and Semitic languages, so I can't really bag on the Romance languages, it's just really hard to get your head around when it's not always written (e.g., most pre-renaissance texts).
eypandabear · 1 points · Posted at 21:37:02 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm pretty sure C and G were already differentiated in Caesar's time. However, the initials for Gaius and Gnaeus were kept "C" and "Cn", respectively, for historical reasons.
slightlydirtythroway · 4 points · Posted at 22:35:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Then you are Classical Latin scholar at heart
sparkle_dick · 2 points · Posted at 23:58:09 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
4x Gold medal NLE here, that's how I still pronounce stuff. I also took German, that fucked things up even more.
he-said-youd-call · 2 points · Posted at 00:52:49 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Classical Latin is simply better, IMO. Closer to the original alphabet, so there's not many odd pronunciation quirks. Just the letters you need, and also Q for some reason.
Rakonas · 5 points · Posted at 23:14:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well maybe profligates like you don't, but the rest of us pronounce his name correctly.
Krumping101 · 1 points · Posted at 04:50:57 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's just what I was thinking. Then again, I liked Rome so I looked at a lot of books about it as a kid before stuff like wikipedia was a thing.
Gothic_Banana · 4 points · Posted at 00:45:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Aye, true to Kaisar!
Si_vis_pacem_ · 2 points · Posted at 23:10:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You don't
Weave77 · 2 points · Posted at 01:53:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
If you play Fallout New Vegas, you do.
ShazamTho · 1 points · Posted at 23:10:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't see a problem with that though.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:10:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
yeah but we can stop.
Dr_McKay · 1 points · Posted at 12:46:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well now I dont know what to believe, last documentary on the Romans I watched claimed it was pronounced "Who-lius Kessar"
rolfraikou · 1 points · Posted at 22:56:55 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I would much rather use the accurate names. :(
I can never seem to find them, and even when I do, rarely find proper pronunciation.
Nixon4Prez · 7 points · Posted at 23:11:20 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Often because it's a pain to figure out, and sometimes the names exist in a language with a different sound set than English, which makes it pretty much impossible to pronounce "accurately'.
slightlydirtythroway · 3 points · Posted at 03:41:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Most of the people who would pronounce Latin names properly take latin and learn the pronunciation of "Classical Latin" (v's that sound like w's, always hard c's) and then pronounce the name
I would really thnk only Jewish people would pronounce Jesus correctly because they took hebrew
pandaSmore · 1 points · Posted at 00:36:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well I'm going to pronounce his name like that for now on. Kaizar sounds fucking bad ass.
autogyro_aus · 1 points · Posted at 02:44:16 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ave, true to Caesar!
Shawwnzy · 0 points · Posted at 01:59:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Your telling me Mark Anthony wasn't actually called that?
Christopher Columbus too?
Bainsyboy · -2 points · Posted at 02:34:17 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Ancient Latin pronunciation was very unimpressive.
When Caesar dominated Pontus and said, "Veni, Vidi, Vici" ("I came, I saw, I conquered"), he would have pronounced it, "Weeny, Weedy, Weeky"
It's just so stupid sounding
Edit: I'm only saying saying that ancient Latin, such as what Caesar would have spoke, sounded very different than what modern Latin, or even Italian would lead you to think.
slightlydirtythroway · 2 points · Posted at 03:42:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
To them it was the height of wit and literacy, but languages change especially when moving between them, hence why we don't pronounce Jesus like its original
Tuxedomex · 166 points · Posted at 21:57:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's a good question. Then again, wonder if anyone knows anyone who knew him.
SkepticalAdventurer · 329 points · Posted at 22:02:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah. Request for AMA of personal friends of Jesus
[deleted] · 116 points · Posted at 22:12:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
Donald_Rising · 111 points · Posted at 22:26:12 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wow, you weren't kidding http://i.imgur.com/FHVDdbq.png
[deleted] · 88 points · Posted at 22:49:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Is that Klingon Jesus? Because that kind of looks like Worf to me.
natophonic2 · 24 points · Posted at 23:16:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The forehead does look oddly battle-hardened, but that's also the most believably Semitic rendition of Jesus I think I've seen.
TheUnfabulousKilljoy · -2 points · Posted at 01:53:30 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You must have not seen many Semitic renditions of Jesus then. That being said, people really should try to make him more Jewish looking in my opinion.
sparkle_dick · 11 points · Posted at 23:59:57 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Klingon Jesus is Kah'less, filthy p'tok.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 00:15:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I am truly sorry sparkle_dick. I really screwed the pooch.
sparkle_dick · 3 points · Posted at 01:09:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Many are unaware of the Great Feats of the Warrior King.
Googling Klingon Jesus yields the Ben Carson photo as first result and Kahless second, an outrage!
MEDBEDb · 1 points · Posted at 06:24:36 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Our gods are dead. Ancient Klingon warriors slew them a millennia ago."
"Yeah, Worf, we did that too."
sparkle_dick · 1 points · Posted at 12:51:16 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Fool! Kahless is immortal!
fanboat · 17 points · Posted at 22:51:20 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Actually I think that's Kahless
SpottyNoonerism · 4 points · Posted at 22:55:31 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You would think a surgeon would know the nails for a crucifixion don't go through the hand, they go through the wrist.
Argosy37 · 4 points · Posted at 22:41:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Isn't that really arrogant of him?
riddlz · 6 points · Posted at 22:48:37 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I wouldnt say it's arrogant just weird
SnowedIn01 · 1 points · Posted at 23:01:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ha, that picture always makes me think of this one.
http://boondocks.wikia.com/wiki/File:Thugnificent-painting.jpg?useskin=oasis
Imunown · 1 points · Posted at 00:31:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
hahahaha, that's awesome!
I mean you know your brain surgeon is badass if brown Jesus is recommending him!
darthrobot · 1 points · Posted at 01:38:55 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Is Jman on the left or right
Don_Tiny · 1 points · Posted at 02:09:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's not Ben Carson, that's Venus Flytrap from WKRP.
BeyonceIsBetter · 1 points · Posted at 04:08:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh my god I wasn't expecting something so poorly done or black jesus with that click
i_am_not_important · 1 points · Posted at 04:25:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You have to be some kind of special to want that picture in the first place. Then a whole new level of retarded to frame it and put it on a wall...
huntmich · 21 points · Posted at 22:27:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Just in case you're wondering, yes, this is actually a thing:
http://i.imgur.com/zsqtzFy.jpg
ButtFuckYourFace · 6 points · Posted at 22:41:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's Nick Cage.
huntmich · 4 points · Posted at 22:42:36 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yea, the only thing worse than having a piece of art commissioned with you posing with Jesus is to hire a shitty artist to paint it then proudly presenting the piece in your house.
legno · 1 points · Posted at 23:00:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Worse yet if you have to get Nick Cage to stand in for Jesus.
PietNederwiet · 1 points · Posted at 23:01:09 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
r/onetruegod
coolguy696969 · 1 points · Posted at 05:14:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
looks more like a bearded Will Arnett to me.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:33:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think Ben calls him "Ike".
SkepticalAdventurer · 1 points · Posted at 22:54:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well yeah how else would they get the picture?
mgarsteck · 19 points · Posted at 22:13:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Rufus the 13th Apostle if possible...
True_to_you · 10 points · Posted at 22:23:57 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't think he will speak kindly on Jesus. Nigga owes him 12 bucks.
Chazwozel · 2 points · Posted at 03:04:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Black man can steal your stereo, but he can't be your savior.
Vandalmaster · 1 points · Posted at 22:43:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
If I remember correctly there was also Fido, the dogciple
ThrowOhioAway · 7 points · Posted at 22:14:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hello, my name is Levi who is called Biff, Joshua's childhood friend, whatever you need to know can be found in the book I wrote:
https://www.amazon.com/Lamb-Gospel-According-Christs-Childhood/dp/0380813815
(Seriously, both a funny and very well written book, I recommend it to anyone of any religion who knows about Christianity)
willreignsomnipotent · 2 points · Posted at 00:00:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Seconded. Great book. Christopher Moore's other stuff is pretty good too. I was pretty fond of "Island of the Sequined Love Nun."
I need to get around to "The Stupidest Angel." Hm, maybe I'll read that one next...
BananaDick_CuntGrass · 1 points · Posted at 00:59:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
He's great, I recommend Fool and the Serpent of Venice.
AnonymousSpaceMonkey · 2 points · Posted at 22:13:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
What about met him at a party once; does that count?
d_frost · 2 points · Posted at 22:16:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, my aunt, according to her
crooked_clinton · 2 points · Posted at 22:16:55 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
For Pete's sake man.
TheFatJesus · 2 points · Posted at 22:36:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
They might not be too tech savvy.
Lightshow33 · 2 points · Posted at 23:26:50 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I saw Chris Angel in Vegas once.
Legman73 · 2 points · Posted at 22:15:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
/r/jesuschristreddit
throwthisawayrightnw · 1 points · Posted at 22:14:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
CoastToCoastAM could probably provide a lengthy list.
Edit: a word.
ccooffee · 1 points · Posted at 22:15:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Pretty sure they called him "J-Dog"
SkepticalAdventurer · 2 points · Posted at 22:58:08 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's actually a common misconception. J-Dog was not what his brociples called him, but what Jesus kept trying to force as his nickname. The only mention of this is in Mark where he states, "Dude I'm not calling you J-Dog." Mark 4:20
cantcomupwithusernaa · 1 points · Posted at 22:20:11 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Bush said he and him were good friends.
Misterpeople25 · 1 points · Posted at 22:24:12 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yo
chemical_toilet · 1 points · Posted at 22:32:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You mean Josh?
fuzzydunlots · 1 points · Posted at 22:33:01 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That could be a shitshow.
Racketmensch · 1 points · Posted at 22:36:25 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus was a friend of mine.
spencer4991 · 1 points · Posted at 22:40:11 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I've got just the people for you.
SkepticalAdventurer · 2 points · Posted at 22:53:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Finally we can get some real answers
MiamiPower · 1 points · Posted at 22:42:12 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Tourettes Guy is talking to the police. Some long-legged pissed-off Puerto Rican broke into his truck.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dWL5fKxrCF8
SkepticalAdventurer · 1 points · Posted at 22:51:59 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's jesus
Stelluma · 1 points · Posted at 23:55:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You could ask these people
ConstantEffect · 1 points · Posted at 00:19:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'd love to know more about his bloodline, because he had children, right?
ThePrevailer · 1 points · Posted at 00:29:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
AMA Request: Scott Bakula
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0217/9998/products/forgiven-thomas-blackshear.jpg?v=1410345132
darthjoey91 · 1 points · Posted at 02:11:16 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Have you tried /r/Christianity?
bluthscottgeorge · 96 points · Posted at 22:02:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Could say same thing for all names. Why is Paolo Paul in some countries, why is Johann John etc why didn't we all just use the original names from Hebrew or Greek rather than different countries making their own variations to it?
More to the point why do we call Deutschland Germany?
Tuxedomex · 28 points · Posted at 22:06:12 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Paul is Pablo in Spanish speaking countries. Go figure.
RoosterClan · 232 points · Posted at 22:16:31 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
John is Juan in Spanish, Jan in Dutch, Jean in French, Gianni in Italian, Ivan in Russian, Ian in Gaelic, and Money in Prostitute.
LuminousRabbit · 113 points · Posted at 22:23:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
How long have you been waiting to deploy that joke?
RoosterClan · 8 points · Posted at 00:52:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Literally didn't wait at all. Just kind of came randomly before I could type the period.
LuminousRabbit · 5 points · Posted at 00:59:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wow. Then you need to get in touch with The Onion.
SignOfTheHorns · 13 points · Posted at 22:46:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
In Irish it's Séan or Eoin.
budom · 3 points · Posted at 01:15:25 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wait... Are you telling me he's actually John Bean?
Tuxedomex · 13 points · Posted at 22:20:24 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
TIL Prostitute
SpottyNoonerism · 4 points · Posted at 22:56:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wish I spoke Prostitute. Maybe I could become pipe pals with one.
Tuxedomex · 3 points · Posted at 23:16:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Pretty sure is a guttural language.
ReubenZWeiner · 3 points · Posted at 23:34:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Preposition, Proposition..its all the same.
Tuxedomex · 2 points · Posted at 00:18:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It surely rolls on the tongue...
ReubenZWeiner · 2 points · Posted at 16:52:08 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Or the dangling participle
jai151 · 6 points · Posted at 22:32:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wouldn't it be Giovanni in Italian?
fagalopian · 5 points · Posted at 22:37:14 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's like John and Jonathon I think.
Athildur · 6 points · Posted at 23:07:50 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes Gianni is an apparently common contraction of Giovanni (apparent as in this is what wikipedia says on the matter)
Cforq · 4 points · Posted at 22:27:03 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
To be fair the way the French pronounce Jean sounds a lot like the American John.
Het_Bestemmingsplan · 5 points · Posted at 22:33:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jan is short for Johan which is short for Johannes
Athildur · 6 points · Posted at 23:08:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Which is John. (Johannes de doper -> John the baptist)
Het_Bestemmingsplan · 2 points · Posted at 23:13:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah that's why I wrote it haha, to demonstrate that the actual name of John in Dutch is longer than the short for he used. Think it's closer to the original as well?
ohitsasnaake · 2 points · Posted at 02:30:53 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Iohannes in the original Greek/Latin I think.
Johannes in Finnish/Swedish. Swedish has Johan & Jan, Finnish has Juhani, Juha, Juho.
semt3x · 2 points · Posted at 23:01:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I thought Sean was the Irish John.
legno · 2 points · Posted at 23:01:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Often "Hans" in German.
Fwendly_Mushwoom · 1 points · Posted at 00:23:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Which is short for Johannes
shinobigamingyt · 2 points · Posted at 22:38:54 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think it's cool that you can tell where someone/their family is from just from their name, due to differing naming conventions and translations. If I say that I have a friend named Jean Montepiere, you can pretty well guess he's French. Similarly, if you have a friend named Umiko Toyama, I can pretty much guess that it's a Japanese girl (since -ko at the end of a first name in Japanese is usually used for girls). Languages are fun.
AcidShades · 1 points · Posted at 02:27:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
In India, you could basically pinpoint someone's origin with fairly decent accuracy just by hearing their last name.
ohitsasnaake · 1 points · Posted at 02:33:11 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
But if someone is named Mika, they're either a guy from Finland or a Japanese woman (and I think I recently spotted e.g. an Indian woman named that or something).
Also, Finnish and Estonian have a few fun cases of names that are opposite gender in the countries, despite them being neighbouring countries and the language split being relatively recent. E.g. Kai and Janne are spelled exactly the same, both men's names in Finland, women's names in Estonia.
RoosterClan · 1 points · Posted at 02:49:15 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The Scandinavian or Germanic one would probably be spelled Micha, if I'm not mistaken.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 22:30:03 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Except we use John and Juan separately. My brother in laws name is John from birth (in Colombia) and he gets offended when people call him Juan because that isn't his name.
[deleted] · -2 points · Posted at 22:44:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Tell him it's not our fault his parents were special snowflakes who wanted a "bougie" name for their son because English names are like, so totally fetch.
[deleted] · 4 points · Posted at 23:01:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
..... his whole family knows english and a lot of them live in England and some in America. How about people stop being assholes and have basic respect for each other? Call people by what they want to be called, its a basic level of respect.
hail_prez_skroob · 1 points · Posted at 23:09:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Bravo!
dfschmidt · 1 points · Posted at 23:51:08 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Also Hans(?) in German, short for Johann which is Giovanni in Italian, Ioannes in Greek, etc.
AdoveHither · 1 points · Posted at 00:12:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jhon
TeeKay007 · 1 points · Posted at 01:03:16 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Unexpected
Twintoro · 1 points · Posted at 01:11:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
In Philadelphia, Jawn is literally anything
JoA_MoN · 1 points · Posted at 20:29:36 on January 2, 2017 · (Permalink)
I though it was Giovanni in Italian?
FX114 · 10 points · Posted at 22:10:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Deutschland-called-Germany-in-English
dienamight · -3 points · Posted at 22:28:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Doesn't explain why the Germans call it Deutschland though. Especially with the Dutch not being from there (although this is probably just a case of mistaken identity by the english)
FX114 · 10 points · Posted at 22:41:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes it does.
dienamight · -1 points · Posted at 22:46:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Didn't want to look for it in the article haha thank you. I knew about the Dutch-Deutsch fuckup (am Dutch) just never knew where it actually came from, thanks! Nice to know that my people are called the Race, doesn't sound weird at all, especially since it came from the Germans haha. Guess they've always been fascistnated by race.
Iwantmyflag · 3 points · Posted at 01:08:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
I'm not sure you understood that entirely right. The Dutch are called Dutch in English because until about very late medieval times (1648) they were Deutsch in language, culture and political affiliation. Not surprisingly about that time the English started to use Dutch only for the Netherlands and German for the HRE. Also, Dutch does not mean "race" but "the common people" with the connotation "not Latin speaker."
The Dutch could communicate perfectly fine with neighbouring German dialects, only later with the fairly different Neuhochdeutsch replacing dialects and the independent development of the Dutch language differences grew.
dienamight · 1 points · Posted at 01:22:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Well it says right there that duit came from Race so that's where i got that from, it was kind of a joke. But you're telling me that before 1648 there was no independant Dutch language? This seems so weird to me, if my memory serves me right there already was in independent dutch republic by then who spoke something very different from old german. I don't know i thought i got it but now I'm confused haha.
Edit: hm wait so german and dutch did exist together at that time, however the english didn't see it as 2 different languages? Am i getting warmer? This still seems kinda odd to me though since i mean we were an independent country around 1580 i believe, how could the english not have noticed
ohitsasnaake · 1 points · Posted at 02:37:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Languages were much more fluid in medieval times and before, not following national borders (if any such existed) so much. It was only after languages started to be standardized, often as late as the 19th century in Europe (20th for e.g. Indonesian vs. Malay) but starting around the 16th century, that the differences were clearly delineated.
Iwantmyflag · 1 points · Posted at 01:11:22 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, changes in language use usually don't happen all at once. In 1581 de Republiek der Zeven Verenigde Nederlanden declared its independence but they had to fight until 1648 for it to be formally accepted. Somewhere in between there English people probably increasingly saw the need to differenciate between "Dutch" and "the other Dutch", so in that period we probably find documents that mix terms and meaning.
As for the relationship between the Dutch and German language, during the 16th century (and before) Maas-Rijnlands was the written language of the "German" area neighbouring the Netherlands and that could be perfectly understood by Dutch people. It began to be replaced by Hochdeutsch but it took until the 18th century for Maas-Rijnlands to be entirely replaced. The spoken dialects on either side of the border are still similar enough to communicate today. So ultimately the question if Dutch was a separate language by 1648 is hard to answer. A good answer is probably that a unified German language only began to emerge in the second half of the 16th century too and a Bavarian of that time would have had the same difficulty understanding Dutch people or someone from Hamburg or Düsseldorf.
dienamight · 1 points · Posted at 02:01:44 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Haha i live there!
Sawdiff · 4 points · Posted at 22:09:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Germany wasn't called Deutschland until the tribes United. We use the older name of Germany referring to the Germanic people.
LiquidFangay · 3 points · Posted at 22:09:43 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Some languages call Deutschland Alemania
Root-of-Evil · 3 points · Posted at 22:42:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And let's not even get into the slavic niem- type
Zarlon · 0 points · Posted at 22:20:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Now that's just silly
BullsLife · 3 points · Posted at 22:11:55 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's something I've never understood. There are few things I hate more than the Anglicization of names.
dienamight · 6 points · Posted at 22:32:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
All languages do this though. King Louis for example is actually not translated to English, so is Charlemagne, they are called Lodewijk and Karel respectively though where I'm from so the Dutchification is even worse haha.
BullsLife · 3 points · Posted at 23:43:36 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes, I know. I hate it in every language.
willreignsomnipotent · 1 points · Posted at 00:03:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So, uh, why? That's the one thing you didn't explain...
(Just curious.)
BullsLife · 1 points · Posted at 05:49:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because it's fake. If I'm reading about a historical figure I want to learn the name he went by, not what a translator renamed him.
Spyger9 · 3 points · Posted at 22:12:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nihon/Japan is another silly one. España/Spain is a great example of the differing opinion about syllables between English and Romantic languages.
dienamight · 2 points · Posted at 22:33:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The people in Holland speaking Dutch while Deutschland is just across the border is also weird.
willreignsomnipotent · 1 points · Posted at 00:05:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I say we should call German "Dutch," and we should call Dutch "Hollandaise."
dienamight · 1 points · Posted at 00:33:30 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Haha i like the joke but Holland is actually just part of the Netherlands. It's calling America Washington for example. Or Dakota since both North and South holland are provinces of the Netherlands. Most people use Holland though for shortness and recognisability i guess. I'd prefer to be called Netherlandish. Well i actually don't because it sounds stupid but it would be the most correct.
large-farva · 3 points · Posted at 22:15:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Every language's name for Germany depends on which tribe they first made contact with
Inityx · 2 points · Posted at 22:23:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=German
stargazer9504 · 2 points · Posted at 23:06:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sometimes the original name or word may be hard to pronounce by locals from a different country or it may not follow the same local language spelling rules. An example of this would be Chinese conversion of Japanese names. Typical Chinese names are one or two syllables while many Japanese can reach three syllables. Therefore Yamada Tarō could become Shāntián Tàiláng.
nijlpaardje · 2 points · Posted at 23:09:57 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Germany" comes from the Latin word for the place.
thunderling · 2 points · Posted at 23:26:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Why do we call him Christopher Columbus? His name is Cristoforo Colombo. It's not like that's hard to pronounce for english speakers.
In high school a kid moved to my school with the name Alejandro. Everybody called him Alejandro because that's his name, obviously. We didn't just decide to call him Alexander instead. Because that's not his name.
dienamight · 1 points · Posted at 22:26:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Pretty funny, King Louis is called Ludwig in German. Not too far off right? Well he's called Lodewijk in Dutch, which is not even close to Louis. It is however close to Ludwig. It seems like the Dutch translated the German name, which was in turn translated from the French name. I wonder if there are more names translated over and over again until it's not even close anymore (except jesus)
padubenay · 2 points · Posted at 22:47:09 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Germania was the name of the region in Roman times, a name which persisted in more recent centuries, too, as in the ballad reference to High Germany.
MoldyCat · 1 points · Posted at 23:30:08 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
For names, it is a revert back to how you pronouce the letters. Shawn is the keltic version of John.
Even my name gets butchered. 3 letters, and how you say them, changes my name. I can tell people my name, but when they see it they don't always make the connection. (Elisha btw)
Then it moves on from there, they hear a name and begin to write it in the fonts they use.
SamAdamsGaming · 1 points · Posted at 23:44:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because of the Tower of Babel.
labrat420 · 1 points · Posted at 22:07:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And why do Germans call Canada Kanada
daedone · 3 points · Posted at 22:33:11 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because Canada has a hard K in the pronunciation, German does not account for this with a C. Probably the shortest jump in this thread.
randomthrill · 26 points · Posted at 22:09:01 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm always hearing about people who've found Jesus. Why not ask them?
[AMA Request] Someone who has found Jesus
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 22:37:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
My dad is the hide-and-seek champion. I still haven't found him.
r3pete · 1 points · Posted at 00:08:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
He was behind the couch.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:22:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Gotchu fam AMA
cwfutureboy · 0 points · Posted at 23:03:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Or better yet, have them ask him how he wants to be called.
You'll probably get just as many different answers as askers.
frenzyboard · 2 points · Posted at 23:20:25 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Josh said he doesn't really care. Just quit being dicks to each other. And maybe quit eating shellfish. Cthulhu really resents people who eat shellfish.
leonryan · 3 points · Posted at 22:28:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
find his great great grandkids. i bet that's a name you'd pass down through a family.
Tuxedomex · 2 points · Posted at 22:34:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Found Dan Brown.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 22:26:59 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Just ask Biff
nineinchnick · 2 points · Posted at 22:29:12 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Phil Collins does. Allegedly.
LikwidSnek · 2 points · Posted at 00:44:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Alas, poor Jesus... I knew him... in America!
tomatoaway · 3 points · Posted at 22:12:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah, say Peter you wouldn't be able to help us out here, would you?
cock sounds in the distance
Tuxedomex · 1 points · Posted at 22:16:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
He had a ddos attack.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:17:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
Tuxedomex · 1 points · Posted at 22:22:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Necrophilia FTW.
LativianHeat · -11 points · Posted at 21:58:11 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Or if he existed
edit: I should not be downvoted for this
[deleted] · 20 points · Posted at 22:00:04 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Most secular scholars agree he existed.
avecfrites · 2 points · Posted at 22:06:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
source?
[deleted] · 4 points · Posted at 22:15:09 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
This article sites many accounts of Jesus with varying degrees of certainty, but it's a pretty good collection of resources. Beyond this, you are on your own. I am no biblical scholar, I just think the 'love your enemies, treat others as you would treat yourself, visit jails, support widows and care for the orphans' was a universally positive message, regardless of if he actually existed. His message to humanity is hard to argue against.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:15:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
http://canadafreepress.com/article/there-is-historical-non-biblical-proof-of-an-actual-jesus-christ-of-nazaret
Tuxedomex · 2 points · Posted at 22:04:22 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
But is there any historical proof? Curious since I remember a documentary long ago that said there was no mention on records. Wondering if that changed.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 23:04:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
Tuxedomex · 1 points · Posted at 23:16:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wow, the story alone is very interesting.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 22:06:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Off the top of my head, there were some Roman records from Pontias Pilot that showed record of him being a prisoner.
NnamdiAzikiwe · 1 points · Posted at 22:47:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I guess you mean Pontius Pilate right?
skullins · 1 points · Posted at 23:59:08 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, Pontiac Pilote.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:16:32 on December 16, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes, me dumb.
[deleted] · -1 points · Posted at 22:09:57 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'll upfedora this
LativianHeat · 1 points · Posted at 22:59:11 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ok nerd
its_gay_jesus · -3 points · Posted at 22:05:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
prolly cause he fake like a $3 bill
Tuxedomex · 3 points · Posted at 22:07:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Username checks.
Hashi856 · 70 points · Posted at 22:05:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
You could say that about a ton of names. Names get translated so that they are easier to pronounce or sound more similar to names in that culture.
Edit: or because the structure of the language requires it.
cammywammy123 · 43 points · Posted at 22:14:15 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Names would get translated to latin, because in latin you have to conjugate names, and so just having the name "bob" for example cannot be conjugated. So it would probably be changed to bobus so you can conjugate it
AhLahzeyGorahDez · 19 points · Posted at 23:02:12 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And then you have Arabic where the letter p doesn't exist so Pepsi turns into Bebsi.
Leafar3456 · 5 points · Posted at 23:52:01 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
bepis?
AhLahzeyGorahDez · 4 points · Posted at 00:00:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I dunno about that, but when I was in Dubai, all the cans had replaced p with the Arabic letter for b.
apparaatti · 3 points · Posted at 02:37:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
TIL Arabic people speak like Spurdo. Bebsi :DDDDD ebin
QuicksilverSasha · 21 points · Posted at 22:20:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Decline. Verbs conjugate, nouns deline.
Snoopy_Hates_Germans · 10 points · Posted at 22:30:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And both conjugation and declension are types of inflection!
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 22:41:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh Boy, flashbacks to Latin class
Mirashe · 31 points · Posted at 22:33:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I have a friend called Biggus Dickus
[deleted] · 11 points · Posted at 23:06:54 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
No kidding? I went to high school with Incontinentia Butticus!
occams_nightmare · 1 points · Posted at 05:08:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
(snigger)
zumun · 1 points · Posted at 00:19:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Now I want to change my name to Bobus
rangi1218 · 1 points · Posted at 02:03:39 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Bobus Dickus
gambiter · 1 points · Posted at 04:59:43 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This is really an important point. We're talking about names that appear in books specifically. To pronounce a name the same way among all languages would require that their written language be capable of conveying the pronunciation.
Some languages literally cannot describe some sounds using their alphabet. I know Burmese, and when I visited Myanmar, I was interested to see how a native wrote my name. I am able to read the language, however, and I could see he simply did his best phonetically, but they lack some sounds, so there were liberties taken. For instance, Smith would end up being pronounced Smi' if you simply read it off of the page.
Sdffcnt · 0 points · Posted at 00:01:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Just say what you mean. People are lazy assholes. Everyone I've met from abroad has been pleasantly surprised when I took the time/effort to learn their real name over their Americanized one. Seriously. How hard is it to pronounce Byong-Doek or Chi-hung or Mahmoud when they tell you?
Qel_Hoth · 3 points · Posted at 02:19:16 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
If their name contains sounds not present in your native language, it can be quite difficult. Many native English speakers have difficulty with the rolled r, such as in Spanish, because that sound is not present in English. Another example would be clicks which are not present in most major languages of the world, most people will struggle to pronounce them correctly and it will take some time to learn to do it properly.
Sdffcnt · 1 points · Posted at 07:37:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Then you struggle and take time. It's basic human respect.
O_Sirjumpsalot · 5 points · Posted at 22:09:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because in order to say it correctly requires a more intimate knowledge of the Hebrew language, as in how to enunciate the letters of his name precisely. It's much easier to just transcribe it in a form that is much easier to read/ hear in your native tongue
willreignsomnipotent · 1 points · Posted at 01:02:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Meh, yes and no. If we're talking about the name in its original form (i.e. Hebrew, or actually Aramaic, lettering)? That would be incomprehensible to most of us who use the English / Latin alphabet. Most English speakers don't know Shin (ש) from Shinola. So something like " ישוע " wouldn't even be pronounceable to someone who doesn't already know the language.
On the other hand, we don't have to translate the name, when we can merely transliterate the name. i.e. converting the Hebrew letters to their closest english equivalents, which in this case comes out something like "Yeshua."
The real answer here is that English speaking people did not discover Christianity. It spread to Greek and Latin, which our culture was then influenced by -- so we get the orignal names filtered through these other languages before it gets to our own. But none of that is really necessary.
LuisXGonzalez · 6 points · Posted at 22:27:50 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Why do people who entered through Ellis Island get new names?
I can only imagine the answer for both is, it was just easier that way for that point in history.
poochyenarulez · 16 points · Posted at 22:04:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
yea, lets just ask someone who knows him how they pronounce his name.
mw1994 · 3 points · Posted at 22:09:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well someone knew him? But like at some point like it's a weird game of Chinese whispers, the name turns into something else for some reason.
Enriquehotpantz · 2 points · Posted at 01:52:15 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The major problem with pronouncing ancient Hebrew names, Jesus included, is they didn't have vowels in their written alphabet, and overtime the actual pronunciation of ancient Hebrew (generally called Biblical Hebrew ) has been lost.
TL;DR English translations may be close, we can't know for sure, but, the pronunciations were kind of standardized years ago in English so they're not questioned often.
VirginWizard69 · 8 points · Posted at 22:26:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jews in the ancient world often had two names, one Jewish and one Hellenistic.
When Paul spoke to his Gentile audience, they called him Paul. When he was with his Jewish audience, he was called Saul. Christianity spread in Greek outside of Palestine and therefore used the name Joshua found in the Greek Old Testament instead of the Hebrew one.
clown-penisdotfart · 3 points · Posted at 22:33:43 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Do you think there was a Spanish guy whose name was Christopher Columbus?
large-farva · 9 points · Posted at 22:13:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Counterpoint: how many American people can correctly pronounce the name Nguyen?
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 22:47:22 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
At least one Source: am one
xzyragon · 5 points · Posted at 22:48:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
you mean en-guy-en? Did I nguyen that competition?
TocTheEternal · 2 points · Posted at 22:48:43 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That mispronunciation comes from the fact that its phoenetic translation uses a different system with (especially) counterintuitive rules compared to normal English. If it was approximated using traditional letter sounds, Americans would get it much closer. But for someone seeing the name and not knowing what it sounded like (and not knowing the obscure Viet-Roman spelling conventions) they would have no way of knowing.
This case doesn't represent most of history though. Most people, when they encounter new cultures and languages, would first hear people saying it and then pass along the written version as best they could.
bug_ridden_prototype · 2 points · Posted at 00:24:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The thing that throws people about the name Nguyen is that it's pronounced exactly as it's spelled.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:44:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not quite a parallel though, that's one that's been transcribed by a fucking imbecile. Always go with phoenetics when changing alphabets. Saves an awful lot of confusion. We're using the same alphabet as the Romans (more or less), who were big record keepers at the time and in the region.
xxpor · 5 points · Posted at 23:33:35 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You realize Vietnamese is written with the latin alphabet, right?
The actual spelling is Nguyễn, but that wouldn't make a difference to anyone who only reads English.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 14:11:57 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Only recently (400 years or so). It had its own characters, derived from Chinese, previous to that.
large-farva · 1 points · Posted at 02:39:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Actually the dude was a fucking French genius and helped literacy rates skyrocket within his lifetime.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandre_de_Rhodes
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 14:10:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That doesn't mean he was right.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:44:50 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wi'in
caffish · 1 points · Posted at 22:46:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
When
large-farva · 2 points · Posted at 02:38:25 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Today
legno · 1 points · Posted at 23:02:37 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Just you, last I heard.
LocalH · 1 points · Posted at 04:00:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
eng-gwin?
deadbird17 · 2 points · Posted at 22:25:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Probably lost in writing, like how the Spanish pronunciation of "English-Jesus" sounds like "Hey-soos".
Pokeputin · 2 points · Posted at 22:30:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
To make it easier to pronounce, it is very important for a religion to be accessible to everyone, that way it will have more followers.
techiesgoboom · 3 points · Posted at 22:27:36 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Same reason we call it Spain and not España or Japan and not 日本 or at least Nippon or Nihon.
Languages often use different writing systems, and even when they are the same they often pronounce letters differently. An "e" in Spanish is not the same as an "e" in English and so on. And then we dig in deeper and have sounds in one language that simply can't be easily pronounced by speakers in another. Such as an English speaker trying to properly pronounce Taoism (also called Daoism). The sound is somewhere between and off to the side of an English "T" and a "D" and most English speakers can't actually hit it without really trying and often time spent studying. Similarly I had a professor in college who went by an Americanized first name in class because even third year Chinese students had trouble pronouncing the sort of "X" like sound at the start of his name.
Then we also go back and look at the history of these words, and the conversation probably went like this:
Brit: "where are you from?"
Spaniard: "España"
Brit: "Did you say Spain? I heard Spain" To his friends "That sounded like Spain, right? Alright, that's it, we got it. Done"
And it happens and back and forth as well. In Spanish USA is known as "Estados Unidos de América", which kind of makes sense because they are translating the words United and States and then putting everything in their usual order, and yet the word "America" is going to pronounced differently than we do. (something more like Ah- MAY - re - ka, although the r will be slightly different as well. Someone familiar with writing phonetics could be more accurate).
TL;DR: It's complicated, some is historic, some is spelling, some is pronunciation.
REVDR · 2 points · Posted at 22:39:24 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
There isn't one exact pronunciation that would work in all cases. For example, in Greek, the nouns have various (but similar) forms depending on the function it is performing in a sentence. Thus, "Jesus" would have slightly different form and pronunciation based on whether or not the word "Jesus" was a subject, possessive noun, indirect, or direct object in a given sentence.
Chel_of_the_sea · 1 points · Posted at 22:15:08 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because it often contains sounds English doesn't. For example, the sound usually spelled as 'X' in Chinese transliterations (as in current Chinese President Xi Jinping's name) is a sound English doesn't have: it's sort of intermediate between a ch, a k, and a j.
asianwaste · 1 points · Posted at 22:28:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Same reason why we can't agree that Germany is Deutchland or whether or not Japan is Nihon or at least Zapan. Or why Iberian dogs pronounce J with an H sound and those eastern barbarians mix W's pronunciation with V's.
extracanadian · 1 points · Posted at 22:38:09 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Godzilla
Balls_McKenzie · 1 points · Posted at 22:43:24 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
From personal experience, the reason for this is so that my family has something to argue about during Christmas dinner.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:44:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Languages don't share the same syllables. Hebrew for example doesn't even have "j" or "juh" so Joshua would be Yoshua, and then yeshua.. most of the name didn't even translate into Greek that's why Jesus is only 5 letters
ThirdFloorGreg · 1 points · Posted at 22:48:04 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You can't use "Yeshua" as a name in Greek. Male names can't end in "a" and there is no "sh" sound in the language. So the adapted it to fit the grammar and phonology of their language, "Yesous." Again, that doesn't fit Latin grammar, so they changed it a bit more into "Iesus." Over time they began to orthographically differentiate between the two uses of "I" and began writing it as J when used as a consonant. When Latin Bibles were translated to English, there was no need to change anything for grammatical purposes, but over time the pronunciation changed.
falafel_eater · 1 points · Posted at 22:49:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Probably a huge amount of common names today are translated from Hebrew, Greek or some other old language.
Also, many Hebrew names are simply standard nouns, like "wolf" (Ze'ev), "oak" (Alon), "cypress" (Oren), "bear" (Dov), "light" (Or), "gold" (Paz), "wave" ("Gal") etc cetera. There's also a ton of names that are related to gift-giving, implying the child was a gift from God: Natan, Yehonatan, Shai, Yshay, Doron, Matan, probably a few others.
When your name is literally a noun, it makes sense to translate it. Also maybe you've gone off to another country and people consistently mispronounce your name until you say "oh fuck it". That's probably how Natan became Nathan, for example. Hell, there are some sounds in Hebrew that simply don't exist in other languages; the Hebrew name Haim/Chaim is pronounced Jaim (J as in the Spanish name "Jose"), but you can't even write it properly in English.
There's also a consideration relating to how Hebrew is written. Specifically many vowels are often omitted, so some words share their spelling. For example, the names "Mor" and "Moore" are written the same way in Hebrew.
HKei · 1 points · Posted at 22:50:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because you couldn't pronounce the name, even if through some miracle we were able to reproduce the original pronounciation with 2000 years of tonal shifts and lost language in between.
hairyotter · 1 points · Posted at 22:57:08 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Why do you call China "China"? Or Germany "Germany"? Or France "France"? Or Spain "Spain"?
Michamus · 1 points · Posted at 22:59:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
This is the thing that gets me about the folks that consider the Bible the "infallible word of god". I mean, they couldn't even get the main character's name right. You know, the guy the whole thing is building up to and is supposedly the savior of mankind? It'd be like Buddhists finding out his name wasn't Buddha, but Bandu.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:02:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
A lot of people will call him Yesshua out of respect. A cool think noticed about it is it literally sounds like "yes you are" like the divine lord is affirming your existence just by saying his name
moohah · 1 points · Posted at 23:03:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Here's the condensed version. First, the original comment isn't quite rightly. Jesus and Joshua weren't equivalent. More like Jeshua and Joshua, with Jeshua (more like Yeshua) a sort of nickname / shortening.
Second, there's no sh sound in Greek, so there was no way to spell it in Greek with the sh sound, so it got written as s instead.
Third, Greek uses declension, which means nouns (usually the ending of nouns) change depending on where they're used in a sentence. English uses conjugation, which is similar but on verbs (e.g I eat, he eats). Think of Return of the Jedi. When C3P0 introduces himself in huttese, it's see three pea oah. So, writing in geek, the name has to end in an s to be grammatically correct.
abaddamn · 1 points · Posted at 23:03:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yasu Krishna
lcg3092 · 1 points · Posted at 23:05:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because not all languages have the same phonetics, so translations happen naturally... Things just morphed naturally, and people got used to them, it wasn't like a bunch of people got together and said "ok, lets translate this shit"
mister-la · 1 points · Posted at 23:06:15 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Isn't this a core Jehova's Witnesses argument?
Si_vis_pacem_ · 1 points · Posted at 23:06:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
For greek and latin, I imagine grammatic since you might want to properly accord the name and alphabet since you translate the writen form (the form most people would hear about it).
And for english, well latin J is I but if you don't know that you'll read it the way you know.
kenshen · 1 points · Posted at 23:14:01 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because it's easier to pronounce and still maintains the exact meaning if you trace all the Hebrew Greek Latin and English translations of his name while not all break down exactly the same ultimately they trace back to his biblical name I AM and Jehovah or in English Joshua.
sobusyimbored · 1 points · Posted at 23:16:22 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Why translate any name?
I have friends called translations of their legal name. Sean is John, Seamus is legally named James, etc.
Names are weird and they way they translate leads to weird shortenings like Dick is short for Richard even though they aren't similar but Richard > Ricardo > Rick > Dick.
Not saying they should be translated just that it's definitely not limited to a few cases. We see it in every day life.
jwarnyc · 1 points · Posted at 23:16:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Which translates to "salvation" in Hebrew.
Titanosaurus · 1 points · Posted at 23:17:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Probably the same reason they call Germany "Deutschland" and we call Deutschland, "Germany."
DamnThatABCTho · 1 points · Posted at 23:18:25 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Maybe characters don't exist in that language for certain phonetics. They might have intended the characters they used to be pronounced slightly differently. These nuances might have gotten more pronounced during multiple translations, especially when they were read and not heard, more so by people with different accents w.r.t the original writers, within the same language.
husky54 · 1 points · Posted at 23:18:25 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Every direct response to you is incorrect, so--here you go:
Hebrew (as with most Semitic languages) has phonetic values not available in Greek and Latin. The Semitic spelling of Jesus actually has two such sounds: š and 'ayin. Frequently, these letters/sounds are either lost or replaced with their closest phonetic approximation (e.g., š becomes sigma when transliterated into Greek but remains š in Coptic).
The h is lost in a somewhat random distribution because h likes to drop out between vowels in Semitic.
Source: nearly complete PhD in ancient Hebrew.
beatskin · 1 points · Posted at 23:21:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Found the true answer, i.e. What his friends might have actually called him: https://youtu.be/fivm4RbIeKc
FootballTA · 1 points · Posted at 23:22:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Greeks and Romans didn't know what to do with the "sh" sound, as they didn't have it in their languages at the time. "S" worked well enough. Also, you needed the proper case endings so you could decline the name, like the -ous in "Iesous" and -us in "Iesus".
insidezone64 · 1 points · Posted at 23:24:54 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You have to remember that the original stories of Jesus were spread by word of mouth. When people thought to write down what they remembered, it was written in their own language.
When it was translated into different language, you had different interpretations of what certain words meant.
Ashrod63 · 1 points · Posted at 23:26:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
To give a seasonal example: "Saint Nicholas", not "Sain-Nich-los" (say it in an exaggerated American accent, you'll figure it out).
Holfax · 1 points · Posted at 23:28:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Names change in translation because 1) not every language can "spell" words from other languages 100% accurately (Y becomes I, SH becomes S), 2) spelling conventions change (I becomes J), and 3) some languages have different rules/conventions for names (U becomes US). When the Bible was translated to English, they could have gone back to "Yeshu" or "Yeshua", but instead they kept the spelling from the Latin translation that they translated from.
3kindsofsalt · 1 points · Posted at 23:32:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Messianic Jews still call Him "Yeshua".
He doesn't just have one name, anyways.
Runsta · 1 points · Posted at 23:33:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because in Koine Greek, the closest to an Y would be the Iota, which makes Jesus in Greek I-e-sus. When Romanized, the I becomes a J, which makes it into Jesus. Not to mention, the accessibility into Hebrew texts(notably the old testament) comes from the Septuagint, as well as the new testament being written almost entirely in Greek.
While Jesus had a Hebrew name, he also spoke Aramaic, a completely different language to throw into the mix.
I'm only a beginner in Greek and Hebrew while studying in a seminary.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:44:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I always thought that was strange. Someone going to talk to Jesus and hed be like "whos Jesus...thats not me"
qualitypi · 1 points · Posted at 23:48:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Languages have phonetic rules. Haha it's tricky.
Also, a lot of pronunciation of ancient Hebrew is inferred because vowels are dropped in ancient manuscripts. For example YHWH is the name of God in Hebrew, and people literally don't know what vowels belong between those consonants because speaking the name of God aloud was taboo(scholars would just say 'the Lord' when reciting, which is why in English God tells Moses 'My name is the Lord') so pronunciation was lost to time.
Sabremesh · 1 points · Posted at 23:53:37 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, assuming Jesus was a real person living in first century Judaea, specifically in Galilee, then he and all the people that knew him would have been Aramaic speakers, not Hebrew. The Aramaic name for Jesus sounds like "Eesa".
Lewon_S · 1 points · Posted at 23:54:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because different languages have different sounds and ruled so a word in one may not be possible in another languages. Plus I think in translating Jesus' name they confused what some of the letters meant in other scripts so it came out wrong.
MacwellX · 1 points · Posted at 00:02:00 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because most people can't read or speak Aramaic which was the language Jesus spoke normally. Many of the books of the Bible were written in Hebrew, some in Greek and the rest in Aramaic, some times a combination.
deeschannayell · 1 points · Posted at 00:03:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I know some people will refer to Jesus as "Yeshua," especially from a Judaic perspective and in relation to Yahweh.
JoshSidekick · 1 points · Posted at 00:05:16 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Call me whatever you like, my child. Just don't call me late for dinner.
gootwo · 1 points · Posted at 00:09:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because nobody knows! There's very little evidence of the historical Jesus.
atizzy · 1 points · Posted at 00:15:29 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus spoke Aramiac.
I speak the closest thing to that on Earth and we call him Isho (e-sho)
In "The Passion..." they called him Yeshwa.
Zoklett · 1 points · Posted at 00:17:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Part of it is that Hebrew is in a different alphabet, so is Aramaic and so is Greek which are some of the more original languages the bible was written in and the phonetics just didn't always match up. Eventually Latin became the deaf to language and bibles were then translated from Greek to Latin and Italian which are so different they basically had to rewrite the whole story for it to make any sense. They had to change names because they were too difficult to spell or pronounce and over time things got so convoluted now people think Mary was just a really common name and not the word for "woman", because so much got lost in translation.
sasquatch_yeti · 1 points · Posted at 00:18:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Keep in mind that the New Testament was originally written in Greek or at least most of it. So saying the name Jesus was translated from Hebrew into Greek then into English is not entirely accurate. It was the Bible writers themselves who used the Greek form of his name Jesus instead of the Hebrew form when they wrote their books of the Bible. So then when we go and translate the New Testament into English we put in the name Jesus because it matches the Greek more closely. When you translate the Old Testament which was mostly written in Hebrew you end up using Joshua.
jstock23 · 1 points · Posted at 00:22:47 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Some words sound dumb or offensive to certain people, so they change it a bit to make it sound better in the greater context of the language.
Monster39 · 1 points · Posted at 00:24:17 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I call bullshit
pm_me_ur_cats_kitten · 1 points · Posted at 00:24:26 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
In Korean, Jesus is pronounced "Yeh-su" or "Yeh-su-nim". "nim" is added to give the name a "title" or authority of sorts.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:28:57 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
nobody thought they were translating. Jesus is actually a rather unique phenomenon in English. Most of the world calls him yeshu or Ieshu depending on your accent.
Oscee · 1 points · Posted at 00:35:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, there is more recent example: why is "Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin" "Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin" in English? It is certainly not how those 3 words are pronounced originally but it is the English version nevertheless. This is how close you can get in English I guess.
My mother tongue is phonetic with a quite large alphabet so it is fairly easy to transliterate most foreign words and we still have our own versions of some names and this is true for majority of biblical names, ancient historical figures' names and most cities and countries. But this makes transliteration of contemporary Russian, German, Nordic etc. words and names fairly straightforward and complete which make you cringe a little bit all the times you hear English speakers pronounce them.
WazWaz · 1 points · Posted at 00:37:33 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, for a start, Hebrew died as a spoken language. Modern Hebrew was resurrected but there is no unbroken chain of speakers. Not that an unbroken chain would help - just look at how differently English is spoken over time.
BigBillyGoatGriff · 1 points · Posted at 00:43:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This is a guess: the early Catholic Church wanted to distinguish itself from Jewish sects and translated his name to Jesus further separating Christianity from Judaism .
Maximillian666 · 1 points · Posted at 00:47:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Difficult to call a fictional character by their fictional name.
DJ780 · 1 points · Posted at 00:54:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
As far as I know, the original name of Jesus Christ was EESHO in the Aramaic or, language of the Assyrians.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:55:17 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Once a name sticks, it tends to be difficult to get rid of. Same with people using Jehovah more then Yahweh.
I always find it funny when people criticize Jehovah's Witnesses for using Jehovah when they continue to use Jesus. I believe witness literature admits both names are not perfect translations but it is what people recognize and I guess god forgives us for not be smart enough to remember their real names.
iAmJimmyHoffa · 1 points · Posted at 01:06:53 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think a lot of it has to do with Joshua playing an important role in the Old Testament, having lived at the same time as Moses.
Also because the New Testament was written at the height of the Roman Empire, and so was likely translated into Greek (and later Latin) and finally into English.
brandonjslippingaway · 1 points · Posted at 01:11:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The same reason you don't call Nicolaus Copernicus; 'Mikołaj Kopernik', or Christopher Columbus; '' Cristoforo Colombo'.
goldenspear · 1 points · Posted at 01:16:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
also because it is a pain( laziness) to translate names and say them with phonetic accuracy. Like try saying Zhongguo vs China.
ONymeros · 1 points · Posted at 01:17:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The actual answer is that every part of the New Testament was written in Greek originally.
Kwangone · 1 points · Posted at 01:24:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Do you have many audio tapes from that area from around 2,000 years ago?
schugesen · 1 points · Posted at 01:29:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
The English language didn't exist at the time. Greek and Latin were the most widely spoken languages in the Mediterranean basin around the time of Jesus' life. In Greek and in Latin, it was customary to Hellenize (make greek) or Latinize foreign names so that they would be easier to write and pronounce. That's how Yeshua became Iesous and Iesus.
For example, in Latin, the name Marcus will take different endings depending on its function in a sentence. Marcus videt = Marcus sees ; Liber Marci = Marcus' book ; Video Marcum = I see Marcus ; Librum Marco do = I give a book to Marcus ; O, Marce = Oh, Marcus ( you're speaking to Marcus and calling him by name)
So, for a foreign name like Yeshua to be written in Latin, a Latin speaker would have to change it slightly so that it will conform to the standard way that Latin names are used and noun endings are changed.
I never studied Ancient Greek, but I know that it has a similar system of noun classifications and endings. (These are called declensions).
So, after the New Testament was written in Greek, translated into Latin, and spread throughout Europe to the different barbarian peoples, including the ancestors of modern English people, the only version of the name they ever knew or heard was Iesus/Jesus.
Edit: corrected a misspelling
Coachkfan1 · 1 points · Posted at 01:32:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I have often wondered this. As a Catholic our current pope is called Francis in English speaking countries and Francisco in other countries. Just the way it is I guess.
sudo-iceman · 1 points · Posted at 01:32:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Amen brother.
mglyptostroboides · 1 points · Posted at 01:39:24 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because different languages have different sounds. One link in that translation chain, Latin, doesn't have a "sh" sound so it was approximated by "s" much like how English approximates the Spanish "trilled r" sound with our r sound. Also, a lot of Latin words beginning with "I" followed by a vowel are transliterated to "J" for various complicated historical reasons, so "Iesu" became "Jesu" etc. In addition, different languages have different rules about which sounds can be next to each other, so this adds another layer of mess.
mtelesha · 1 points · Posted at 02:03:14 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The New Testament Book James is Jacob in Greek. Ends up that it was the French who are responsible for that switch. https://www.probe.org/why-did-the-book-of-jacob-get-changed-to-the-book-of-james/
evanationE · 1 points · Posted at 02:04:26 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
nowadays we have the luxury of being able to ask a person directly, "what do you like to be called". As an example look at all of the posts we have online today. "german's what do you think about americans" and all of the SJW stuff, this is all an awakening of a different kind of thinking. the average person can be heard very easily and communicate to millions of people at once. years ago most information was second hand. In some regions there were differences in language between towns notwithstanding whole countries or tribes. As time went on there was a great drive to create more standardization in languages. now there are even committees on linguistics for a particular language as well as even studies on what people actually want to be called!
IAmA_Cloud_AMA · 1 points · Posted at 02:18:31 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This may seem like a strange example, but the Japanese word for an RV is "Arubui", which is a phonetic integration of English into Japanese.
Similarly, it wouldn't be too surprising for people to adapt the way in which a common name or word is said to their own native tongue, and additionally words will change as time progresses. A german word and an english word may have the same origin, but now sound vastly different. It's entirely plausible that these sorts of things could have occurred. Additionally, some may translate a word or name with specific intent, like "Shang Di" being the name for God in Chinese, or "YeHeHua" being their phonetic variant of "Jehovah", which is a mistranslation of "Yahweh", which is an evolved form of the original pronunciation for the phrase "He will be", which is lost.
Words are complicated.
bjb406 · 1 points · Posted at 02:19:19 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
because when translating between languages, the one language may have a sound that doesn't exist in the other. For example, Japanese has a sound that is similar to both "r" and "l" but identical to neither, and is translated as both interchangeably.
Also, in the case of dead languages, many of these sounds have long since been forgotten.
Baby-exDannyBoy · 1 points · Posted at 02:30:00 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, for starters nobody is quite sure if he actually existed.
FrankManic · 1 points · Posted at 02:31:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because Medieval Roman Catholicism is why.
HK_1030 · 1 points · Posted at 03:10:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's not really a translation, it's a transliteration. It's interpreting the sound of the word through the sounds available in another language. So like, the name Ahmed, in Arabic, is pronounced with an H sound English doesn't have. So in English the closest people can get is Akhmed or Amad. That's the English transliteration of the Arabic name. Does that make sense?
grouchey · 1 points · Posted at 03:53:15 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wouldn't that be in Aramaic, not Hebrew?
Terbear0711 · 1 points · Posted at 04:00:24 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because when writing the Bible in different languages, the translators attempted to keep His name, but made it as close to His real name as possible. People in Europe and Britain wouldn't have grasped Yeshua, but could pronounce and grasp Jesus.
raphier · 1 points · Posted at 04:07:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
In the west it's difficult to symphatize with names like Yehoshua, that's why people don't say Yahwe, they say God and Jesus instead of Yehoshua, Hakadoch as holy spirit, the choosen one.
Baltowolf · 1 points · Posted at 04:45:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because Americans/English speakers don't want to say Hebrew names the way they are. Ie. Samuel is pronounced something like "Schmuel." No one wants to say that. Hebrew has some bizarre pronunciations.
fromdev · 1 points · Posted at 06:34:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
+1 - Joshua or Jesus - both would easily be said or written in English as well. Why translate nouns. It is something TIL for me too.
pl233 · 184 points · Posted at 21:14:25 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wish this was higher in the comments. In any case, it's convenient that only one of them gets translated to Jesus in the Bible because it's less confusing that way.
griff2621 · 189 points · Posted at 21:40:04 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Your wish has been granted! Worst make-a-wish ever.
pl233 · 59 points · Posted at 21:52:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nooooooooo!!!
Dunder-MifflinPaper · 35 points · Posted at 21:59:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah dude, everyone knows you're supposed to wish for infinite wishes.
jrsooner · 15 points · Posted at 22:13:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Doesn't work that way unfortunately
GrandviewKing · 2 points · Posted at 23:14:15 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well 0 is infinite and finite at the same time... sooo
jrsooner · 1 points · Posted at 15:31:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No? Zero = Zero as in nothing. If you are referring to something like divided by zero, it is undefined, as in we do not know. Its almost a concept outside of math.
1/x while x-> infinity is infinitely close to zero, but its still not zero.
iamonlyoneman · 1 points · Posted at 02:17:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No way man, that's the old and busted way. New hotness is to wish to always have the right amount of the acceptable currency to buy anything you want at the moment. Magic wallet.
[deleted] · -1 points · Posted at 21:59:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
Alexioth_Enigmar · 2 points · Posted at 22:14:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I wish to negate /u/heptagen's wish.
battraman · 1 points · Posted at 23:10:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Long live Jambi.
DrBoomkin · 67 points · Posted at 21:45:01 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Modern Hebrew also uses "Yeshu" to refer exclusively to Jesus, even though in Jesus' time it was simply the short version of "Yehushua" (which is "Joshua" in English), and is still a common Hebrew name.
valryuu · 126 points · Posted at 22:14:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
So what you're saying is, "Jesus" is less the equivalent of "Joshua," and more the equivalent of "Josh"? LOL
DrBoomkin · 31 points · Posted at 22:16:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yep.
jlhc55 · 74 points · Posted at 22:37:36 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And since he was called the Son of David, I guess we could call him "Josh Davidson"
DrBoomkin · 96 points · Posted at 22:42:01 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, he was the son of Joseph, which means that at the time his full name was "Yeshu Ben Yosef". That would be "Josh Josephson" in English.
ironhades · 23 points · Posted at 23:21:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[Jojo part 7 spoilers] So you're saying Jesus was both a Jojo and a stand user
[deleted] · 6 points · Posted at 23:51:15 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
Zenthon127 · 6 points · Posted at 00:10:55 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You're one of today's lucky 10,000
AerasGale · 5 points · Posted at 02:06:11 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
His miracles are actually just Stand power!
betesboy · 3 points · Posted at 01:04:25 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I also watch the two best friends
Lewon_S · 11 points · Posted at 00:00:26 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Erm, actually he was the son of god...these fake bible fans smh.
therealsylvos · 8 points · Posted at 01:05:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Josh Yahwehson
nonombre · 6 points · Posted at 03:16:08 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Josh Elson
therealsylvos · 2 points · Posted at 03:57:29 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
lol, I went to school with a kid named Elson
dopalicious · 1 points · Posted at 02:32:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
My middle name is Joshua, and my dads name is Yoseph... am I Jesus?
This is also weird because nobody in my family is Jewish
TheReformedBadger · 1 points · Posted at 04:21:11 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I knew a pastor that would refer to Peter as Rocky Johansson.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 05:53:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wasn't the Aramaic equivalent not Ben, but Bar? Like Simon Barjonah.
BernankesBeard · 1 points · Posted at 04:48:56 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No I'm pretty sure the modern version of his name would be Josh Donaldson.
jlhc55 · 2 points · Posted at 04:54:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You shut your whore mouth
PerogiXW · 10 points · Posted at 22:33:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Our Lord and Savior, Josh of Nazareth...
I'm picturing Jesus in frat boy attire.
valryuu · 17 points · Posted at 22:41:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nazareth was supposed to be a place looked down upon...so...
"Our Lord and Savior, Josh of Florida"?
NokchaIcecream · 3 points · Posted at 00:29:53 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nothing good ever comes out of Florida...
mr_luc · 2 points · Posted at 22:52:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh, wow, +1 this.
TheCatcherOfThePie · 1 points · Posted at 07:52:16 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Josh of Swindon".
SpeakerOfThings · 5 points · Posted at 01:49:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
"Dear Josh ... when things suck, help us find the way to keep things fuckin lit. Let our lives be dank af bruh."
rangi1218 · 2 points · Posted at 02:07:18 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Josh time traveller confirmed
joshb343 · 1 points · Posted at 02:19:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I am the way, the truth and the light.
[deleted] · 17 points · Posted at 22:12:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So, “Josh” it is!
Raisinbrannan · 2 points · Posted at 23:13:01 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
i wonder how many people will yell at me for calling him yeheshua and that it sounds too jewish.
DrBoomkin · 3 points · Posted at 23:16:22 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wait, those people dont know that Jesus was a Jew?
Raisinbrannan · 1 points · Posted at 23:18:22 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
i really really doubt all of them know that
productoid · 1 points · Posted at 23:26:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I refer to him as that in prayer. The Bible is emphatic about the importance of God's true name.
Let_It_Sano · 1 points · Posted at 02:47:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I took a biblical history class in high school and it was actually really cool. It gave context to a lot of what Jesus did at the time and showed why he gained such a radical following.
He also would have been called "Yeshua ben-Yusef" or something like that. Jesus son of Joseph.
youdubdub · 3 points · Posted at 22:01:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Joshuas Christ, I wish people could just get along about this.
sandmyth · 1 points · Posted at 22:01:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
the Bible not confusing?
pl233 · 2 points · Posted at 22:08:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
At least the "which Jesus did you mean" thing isn't happening here, since there's a prominent Joshua in there as well. One of each keeps things tidy.
Bonziamo · 1 points · Posted at 22:05:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That was amazing, can you wish me a house next?
pl233 · 3 points · Posted at 22:07:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I sure wish /u/Bonziamo was a house
m00fire · 1 points · Posted at 22:10:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I always thought it started with an 'I' like in that documentary 'Indiana Jones and the Last Cruusade'
pl233 · 2 points · Posted at 22:39:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
In Latin, yeah. In the anglicized Hebrew it's a Y, goes to I for Greek and Latin, then becomes a J in English. Not sure why we turned it into a J sound at all, maybe it should be pronounced closer to Yeezy.
Nulono · 1 points · Posted at 22:11:54 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
*Wish this were
missionbeach · 1 points · Posted at 22:21:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
What's above #1?
pl233 · 1 points · Posted at 22:39:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
This was quite a ways down the list when I saw it. But to answer your question, Jesus is above #1.
SarcophAGus · 1 points · Posted at 23:34:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
While they were at it, many other things in the bible could have been translated to be less confusing.
CatbellyDeathtrap · 44 points · Posted at 22:00:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Fun fact: in Arabic "Jesus" is represented as "c Ysā"
That first letter is c Ayn which is basically a guttural groaning sound. My professor says that to produce the sound you have to use the same muscles you use to vomit.
[deleted] · 44 points · Posted at 22:51:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's an unfortunate description. Ayn and Ghayn are harder than some sounds, but "guttural groaning" is pretty harsh -- especially considering English is full of ugly words...like "guttural" and "groaning" ;).
Ayn spoken by a native Arabic or Hebrew speaker sounds kinda like a cello. It's flowing, not strangled the way students will first say it.
frilink · 0 points · Posted at 01:27:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ayn sounds like "ain't" without the "t" sound
funksaurus · 24 points · Posted at 22:13:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It took me a while to learn that one in Hebrew.
It's pretty much the same in Arabic, though.
But, it is true that it is really hard to make if you're just used to English.
atizzy · 3 points · Posted at 00:17:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus spoke Aramiac.
I speak the closest thing to that on Earth and we call him Isho (e-sho)
In "The Passion..." they called him Yeshwa.
[deleted] · -2 points · Posted at 00:46:24 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
destronger · -1 points · Posted at 01:25:08 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Amharic, not Aramaic.
being that he was Yahweh's son, I don't think languages were difficult for him.
[deleted] · 8 points · Posted at 23:03:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 00:22:56 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's an ayn in Hebrew too, it's just more commonly transliterated Yeshua because it's annoying to type c all the time.
The a/e difference in the front is Arabic consolidating small vowels (Hebrew has something like 9, Arabic has 3).
ArsenicAndJoy · 5 points · Posted at 22:48:59 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I was taught in my Arabic class that 'ayn is like singing one note lower than the lowest note you can sing
hx87 · 3 points · Posted at 22:55:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
If you live somewhere between Orange County and San Diego, you should be familiar with that name, since the US House representative there (Darrell Issa) has it. He is also the voice on Viper car alarms that says "Protected by Viper. Stand back" and "Please step away from the car".
idioventricular · 4 points · Posted at 23:06:14 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I've heard Arabic spoken in the Gulf States, Saudi Arabia, and the southern peninsula...it is a hideous language. But then you go north the the Levant, Jordan, Iraq...and it is beautiful.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 02:11:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
ram0h · 2 points · Posted at 03:44:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So welsh speak softly? Or just very differently from the original language. Because most commentators will say that Egyptian Arabic is most pleasant to the ear, because of all the letters that they change to softer sounds.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 04:16:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
ram0h · 1 points · Posted at 04:25:17 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
For real, its easier for me to try to talk French with Moroccans (I'm intermediate) than to speak Arabic with them. Same difficulty with people in the gulf. Syrian/Lebanese Arabic isn't too hard, as an Egyptian
iamonlyoneman · 1 points · Posted at 02:19:47 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Spanish comes to my mind as being the same way...then I remember regional dialects are a thing in English too. THEN I wonder how Chinese could have regional dialects, since tone is so important to spoken Chinese.
gavers · 2 points · Posted at 00:49:25 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I've never seen that c used to transliterate an ayin.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:20:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The real symbol is hard to type for most keyboards. So ʿayn, for convenience, becomes cayn.
gavers · 1 points · Posted at 09:55:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What symbol are you trying to use? when I transliterate an ayin (in Hebrew) I'll usually use an apostrophe. In Arabic I know they use numbers, which I find odd, but I've never heard of a small c.
darkstar1031 · 2 points · Posted at 01:41:17 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I can't even try to pronounce that without laughing.
Infinity2quared · 1 points · Posted at 22:35:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
... the diaphragm?
CatbellyDeathtrap · 1 points · Posted at 03:59:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The viscera
NIPLZ · 1 points · Posted at 00:22:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
A glottal stop? It's also represented in linguistics by a symbol similar to a question mark I believe. In my language it's represented by the letter Q and its a sound made by your throat. Foreigners can never get the hang of it 😂
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:18:19 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, a glottal stop is different, and is represented by Hebrew Aleph or Arabic Alif and Hamza. It's also present in English in almost every word beginning with a vowel (which, fun fact, is why all words starting with a vowel alliterate with each other in Old English poetry.)
Ayn is a different beast altogether, the voiced pharyngeal fricative. It can actually be thought of as "the opposite of a glottal stop."
CatbellyDeathtrap · 1 points · Posted at 03:58:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The arabic letter qāf is more of a glottal stop/occlusive sound, but more in the back of the throat. c Ayn is an open sound that starts deep in your chest.
AFlyingFig · 1 points · Posted at 01:42:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
In modern Hebrew, you can get by without pronouncing Ayn like it traditionally should. A lot of Hebrew speakers pronounce it like a regular syllable without causing any hindrance. I think that in Arabic it's more important to pronounce it right.
ram0h · 1 points · Posted at 03:46:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Without a doubt. It will be confused with other letters/words if not.
Mo_Lester69 · 1 points · Posted at 02:11:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
c Ayn is better described as how you pronounce the 'a' in 'apple'
mw1994 · -7 points · Posted at 22:11:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Why make that noise? Like holy shit lots of languages didn't need to make a phlemb sound and here doing fine.
Modini · 17 points · Posted at 22:21:22 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because it isn't difficult to do for a native Arabic speaker. It's just as easy to make that sound as it is any other letter of the alphabet.
here_takethisrock · 11 points · Posted at 22:22:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Its not that demanding or hard once you learn how to say it i can record myself saying jesus "eissa" in arabic if you want to hear it
Het_Bestemmingsplan · 5 points · Posted at 22:35:50 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Please do!
here_takethisrock · 2 points · Posted at 15:03:48 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
well here it is, sorry for being late and for the loud ass PC fans in the background
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1QAM6jwpSbE
Het_Bestemmingsplan · 1 points · Posted at 15:25:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Haha no problem, thanks mate. What 'dialect' of arabic are you speaking?
here_takethisrock · 2 points · Posted at 15:29:31 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Gulf Arabic, although the name Jesus is pronounced pretty much the same across all Dialects.
Nixon4Prez · 3 points · Posted at 23:14:59 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Why make a /k/ sound then? Or any other sound?
GreatestWhiteShark · 4 points · Posted at 23:26:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because people who grow up learning Arabic have no trouble pronouncing it.
Also, 'Ayn isn't even the "phlegmy" sounding letter. That's Khā, which again isn't that difficult to pronounce.
CatbellyDeathtrap · 1 points · Posted at 04:01:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
*phlegm
[deleted] · 83 points · Posted at 21:52:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So you're saying that jesus is just a mistranslation and it should actually be yeezus?
Chaos20X6 · 13 points · Posted at 22:09:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's the correct spelling, but it's pronounced "Siiiiiiiilver surfffffeeeeer"
pigonstilts · -1 points · Posted at 22:48:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's pronounced throatwobbler mangrove
AndIHaveMilesToGo · 3 points · Posted at 23:29:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
W A V Y
A
V
Y
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:24:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
UH
zaphod_beeble_bro · 58 points · Posted at 21:48:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wasn't his name Yeshua bin Yosef or something like that? I wonder how the red necks would feel about a guy with that name.
[deleted] · 55 points · Posted at 21:59:09 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ben, not Bin. Ben means son in hebrew. So "x son of y", and Bat means daughter.
nowrongwrong · 79 points · Posted at 22:17:14 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Bar, not ben. Jesus lived in Aramaic-speaking times. Hebrew was only used by the educated scholars and teachers.
e.g. Simon Barjonah (Son of Jonah), Barabbas (Son of the father), etc
[deleted] · 18 points · Posted at 22:22:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So Judah Ben Hur was not the son of Hur?
BrStFr · 14 points · Posted at 22:52:57 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, he was: Judah son of Hur.
Jews still have patronymic names like this in addition to their "English" names. There is also an addition at the end to indicate whether the person is a member of the tribe of Levi (a levite) or a descendant of Moses' brother Aaron a (kohein, or priest).
Dances_with_wookies · 13 points · Posted at 23:01:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
holy shit... Bar/Bat mitzvahs make more sense now.
DrBoomkin · 3 points · Posted at 00:03:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus almost certainly spoke Hebrew as well. It wasn't as common as Aramaic, but it was more widely known than you suggest.
nowrongwrong · 2 points · Posted at 13:04:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You are overestimating the value of literacy to these cultures. Hebrew was the language of the written law. The average Jew didn't need to know how to read the law to follow oral traditions and teachings.
Jesus, as someone who obviously spent most of his life discussing and challenging much of Jewish law, would certainly have known Hebrew. He studied in the temple as a youth.
It is also likely that Jesus knew Greek, as he was able to speak to many Gentiles and Roman officials with ease. Greek was the default language for most of the Mediterranean (the language of commerce and trade). Which is why most of the New Testament was written in Greek instead of Hebrew or Aramaic.
OK_Soda · 3 points · Posted at 00:14:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What a shitty name. God, no wonder he got into crime.
"And what is the child's name?"
"Don't care."
"Well, who should we put as the father on the birth certificate, at least?"
"Don't know."
"I'll just put son of the father and you can fill it in later."
OIP · 2 points · Posted at 00:51:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
hello my name is sonny fatherson
OK_Soda · 2 points · Posted at 01:31:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nice to meet you Sonny, my name is Guy Manning.
zaphod_beeble_bro · 2 points · Posted at 01:23:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
so what would have been the name people would call jesus? Yeshua Bar Yosef? i would love to know what he was actually referred as in his language, it's very interesting.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 03:25:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
He would mostly have been called Yeshua. He might also have been called Yeshua Bar-Yoseph or Yeshua Nazrat if he needed to be differentiated. His followers mostly called him Rabbi from what we can tell.
Thibaudborny · 2 points · Posted at 23:32:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
But he was a rabbi wasn't he? So he probably spoke both?
OK_Soda · 2 points · Posted at 00:23:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
He wasn't a Rabbi rabbi. The word just means "teacher" or "master", so his disciples called him by that title, but actual Rabbinical Judaism didn't exist yet, so he wasn't like an officially ordained Rabbi the way we would think of the word now. Jesus was probably able to speak Hebrew, but it was a sacred language and he didn't belong to the kind of upper class that would have used it for naming schemes.
FatalTragedy · 1 points · Posted at 00:28:00 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wait so was Barabbas used when the father was unknown?
cville-z · 64 points · Posted at 22:11:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Eh, I think Jesus actually spoke Aramaic, not Hebrew, so Yeshua Bar Yosef is more likely.
UtahStateAgnostics · 43 points · Posted at 23:26:36 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Roughly translated: Joe's kid Josh.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 03:27:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
JJ McJoe
Rommel79 · 2 points · Posted at 01:40:26 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Aramaic in everyday life. It's also reasonable to assume that he understood Hebrew, Greek, and maybe Latin.
[deleted] · 5 points · Posted at 22:58:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So...Batman....daughterman?
Level126 · 2 points · Posted at 00:29:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Bar is son in aramaic. Someone needs to brush up on his babylonian talmud.
ParkingLotRanger · 1 points · Posted at 22:48:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Labe son of Nat.
mynewaccount5 · 1 points · Posted at 00:28:18 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
bin also means son of
dienamight · 1 points · Posted at 22:36:25 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So you're telling me he isn't the son of God but actually of his mother's partner? Heathen!!
thetrapiche · 95 points · Posted at 22:02:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
...wait til they find out he was Middle Eastern.
jingerninja · 52 points · Posted at 22:08:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Had Yeshua Ben Yosef grown up to just be a middle aged Nazarene carpenter he'd have looked something like this
thetrapiche · 25 points · Posted at 22:15:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wait...so you're telling me that the Brad Pitt-in-Fight-Club with 6 pack abs dude I see everywhere isn't an accurate depiction of an iron age Palestinian? Yeah, okay dude. Suuuuure.
KremlinGremlin82 · 26 points · Posted at 23:41:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus wasn't a Palestinian, as Palestine didn't exist. He was a Jew, and modern day Palestinians are genetic Jordanians, for the most part.
[deleted] · 4 points · Posted at 03:37:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Palestine existed. It was named for the Philistines, and in many languages (such as Arabic) this is still obvious. It was called this way since hundreds of years before Christ.
However, the people who lived there in Christ's time were not Philistines, nor were they modern Palestinians. Christ was also from the north of Judah, not the region called Palestine. So you're right on those notes.
KremlinGremlin82 · 2 points · Posted at 03:53:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Thank you.
thetrapiche · -8 points · Posted at 00:34:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Uh...no. He was religiously Jewish, but the region was referred to as Palestine by ancient Greeks and Romans way before he was supposedly born. He was born in Judea, which at the time was part of the southern region of Palestine. Wikipedia is your friend, with plenty of sources.
tootlez · 9 points · Posted at 01:49:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
this comment is as incorrect as it is condescending This whole thread is about different languages' names for things, and you fail to realize that the word Palestine is simply the Roman name for the province of Judea, renamed so as to remove connection with the Jews after the revolts. Also, until modern times there was no concept of "religiously Jewish." Just like every other people, the Jews were an ethnic group who had their own religion.
KremlinGremlin82 · 5 points · Posted at 00:45:30 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It wasn't called Palestine and the people are not modern times Palestinians. It didn't become Muslim until the Middle Ages. yeah, wikipedia
thetrapiche · 2 points · Posted at 02:06:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You realize that being from Palestine is not the same as being Muslim right? Fucking idiot.
KremlinGremlin82 · -1 points · Posted at 02:19:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You should relax
thetrapiche · 1 points · Posted at 17:32:39 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You should stop spreading information you're ignorant about.
Pskipper · -5 points · Posted at 02:57:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Tell me more about your keen interest in genetic purity, friend. It sounds fascinating.
KremlinGremlin82 · 2 points · Posted at 03:23:49 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Purity? It's common knowledge and your comment is not even relevant. You are not that smart, are you? Checked your istory if you're sorta JSW- you play Pokemon, for fucksake, lmao- that's even worse! Are you a brony as well?
Pskipper · 0 points · Posted at 03:41:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Guess I'm not too smart, I don't even know what JSW is or why history shouldn't be spelled with an h. Good thing you're here to set me straight! Please, go on!
KremlinGremlin82 · -1 points · Posted at 03:54:08 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You play Pokemon...nuff said
Louis_Farizee · 1 points · Posted at 22:36:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
GIS Jewish Carpenter
legno · 1 points · Posted at 23:05:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's Nick Cage.
sepiaknight · 1 points · Posted at 23:48:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
hi dad
ericswift · 1 points · Posted at 23:59:24 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Why not just link this image? http://i.imgur.com/Fbl3gm8.jpg
fimari · 1 points · Posted at 23:05:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Where jews dark skinned back then? It sounds logical cause south, but skin is genetic and Egyptians got darker over time how can we know the skin of a jew at this time?
JHartigan · 2 points · Posted at 23:38:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Egyptians didn't really get darker via genetic evolution. The Sudan/Nubian deserts essentially formed an impassable terrain that prevented interaction between Egyptians and any darker skinned people to the South/South East.
As for the Jews, they're a middle/near eastern people so they are naturally a bit darker skinned. From what I understand quite a few Jewish exoduses took place over the years in Middle Eastern/Arabic countries scattering them. A lot ended up in Central/Eastern Europe forming the Ashkenazi Jewish population which is now the majority of them I think. This probably lead to the lighter skin we see today.
At least that's my very amateur and rough take on it. Take it with a grain of salt, Australian here. Never seen or met a Jewish person in real life.
KremlinGremlin82 · 7 points · Posted at 23:43:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm an Ashkenazi Jew from Russia (there are tons of us all over), I have family members that look like downright arabs. A lot of Jews became lighter due to intermarriage with European converts, but the genes are still strong so many still have large Middle Eastern noses, curly hair, and darker skin.
JHartigan · 3 points · Posted at 23:46:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh of course. Not saying that all Ashkenazi Jews are white, just the Jews that are white are most likely Ashkenazi. Think I worded it poorly.
KremlinGremlin82 · 2 points · Posted at 00:17:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I was actually partially wrong on the intermarriage. Skin color is a tricky thing and doesn't often become lighter because of dilution. A lot of it has to do with climate. If you go to Israel, most people have darker skin- the main cause is tan. While I'm pretty pale (with dark eyes and hair though), my cousin has blue eyes but his skin is pretty dark because of the tan. Also, there are a lot of Middle Eastern nations that have pale skin. Lebanese, Saudis, etc have pale skin even though they are arabs, so the notion that if you are Jewish and have pale skin, then you must be mixed with something, is also not very correct. Plus, conversions to Judaism (needed for marriage) were highly frowned upon (Judaism is not a messianic religion like Christianity and Islam), plus back in the day Christians were not allowed to marry Jews (Ivanhoe and Fiddler on the Roof touch that subject) So yeah, who knows, I was thinking to do the DNA testing to see where my roots lie. Nobody knows what color Jesus and the rest of the Jews were in those times, but chances are they were tan, lol.
JHartigan · 2 points · Posted at 00:56:44 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
True, like I said I wouldn't know at all haha, just an uneducated guess on my part that I pieced together from Wikipedia pages, the topic is all pretty interesting I find.
KremlinGremlin82 · 2 points · Posted at 01:11:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It is interesting and there is really no concrete answer since humanity is so dispersed.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:14:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
We're they in the sun? Yes they were darker
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 22:24:14 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So "Jesus son of Joseph"
Galrowre · 1 points · Posted at 23:01:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Actually he is referred to as either Isaa (Jesus) Ibin (Son of) Al-Omran (Al is used to refer to denote that the name is a last name while Omran is Joachim), or Isaa (Jesus) Ibin (Son of) Maryam (Mary).
Sorry for the terrible formatting.
rendleddit · 1 points · Posted at 01:11:00 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This comment's irony is overpowering.
smiley_x · 1 points · Posted at 21:37:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The greek form is ΙΗΣΟΥΣ. So add the confusion of transliterating the H letter which is a vowel in Greek but can be transliterated as both "E" or "HE" in latin. I actually wonder why it ended up as Iesus and not something like Ihesus.
Helarhervir · 2 points · Posted at 01:29:02 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Vowels are only transliterated as having an h in Greek if the spiritus asper was present in the ancient Greek. It was used to denote an h sound that could come from a couple sources, one being from an old s, compare ἑρπετόν 'herpeton' vs. serpēns 'creeping animal, reptile"
AshtarB · 1 points · Posted at 21:53:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The /h/ sound in Greek can only occur at the beginning of a word.
k-h · 1 points · Posted at 22:01:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Technically hebrew like arabic has only consonants.
leonffs · 1 points · Posted at 21:50:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Did these names imply that before the time of Jesus or did the names take on that meaning afterward?
ND3I · 1 points · Posted at 22:09:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The Hebrew isn't just a name, a label without a particular meaning, as Jesus is in English. The Hebrew name incorporates two words that mean "Yah (short form of the deity's name) saves" or "Yah is salvation". It had that meaning for as long as there was a Hebrew language, that is, long before Jesus' time. It was (and still is) a very common Hebrew name.
leonffs · 1 points · Posted at 22:18:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Cool, thanks
fox-friend · 1 points · Posted at 22:20:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You are correct except that Yeshua isn't a common Hebrew name at all, in fact it's nearly extinct. Yehoshua isn't extinct but very rare for the past 50 years or so.
ezro_ · 2 points · Posted at 22:30:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yehoshua actually sounds cool
ND3I · 2 points · Posted at 00:14:43 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Thanks. Going by what I've read; no first-hand experience here. Since "Joshua" is, and has been, popular, it seemed plausible that the Hebrew name it came from would still be popular. OTOH, given the unpleasant history with Christians since Jesus' time, I suppose it's understandably disfavored.
Thanks for the update.
TheLast_Centurion · 1 points · Posted at 22:10:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So Jesus (Yeshu/Yeshua...) means in Hebrew "divine deliverance"?
myne · 1 points · Posted at 22:10:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wait... I've been calling him "heyzeus". I'm wrong?
Ok, back to jeebus it is.
GracieBBJ86 · 1 points · Posted at 22:16:54 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Thanks for this man now i get to go do some more research and feed my brain
that_blind_panda · 1 points · Posted at 22:17:28 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The hero all us lazy folk don't deserve but the one we need.
jklebonas · 1 points · Posted at 22:20:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
When OP finally delivers.
MeDiggingMyGrave · 1 points · Posted at 22:21:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Can confirm. speak hebrew and jesus is ,in hebrew, Yeshu, derives from the word Yeshua which mean Salvation or deliverance.
mursilissilisrum · 1 points · Posted at 22:22:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Aren't Yeshu and Yeshua pretty much the same though? Or does Yeshua come with an alef at the end of the word?
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:46:09 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
The vav and shin are flip-flopped, and Yehoshua has an additional he.Sorry, I answered the wrong combo. Yeshua is Yeshu with an extra ayn.
mursilissilisrum · 1 points · Posted at 23:14:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Actually, now that I actually read the script in the icon for the link, it looks like the names are Yehosh, Yehoshu and Yeshu (though I'm making up most of the vowels and not even being that consistent with the ones that I'm not making up). I don't really know if it makes sense to transliterate an ayn as a vowel though.
HonProfDrEsqCPA · 1 points · Posted at 22:23:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So Stephen vs steven
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:36:01 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
More like Nathan vs Jonathan vs (Natan vs Yonatan).
As a Nathan IRL, I don't consider myself a Jonathan, even though it has the same meaning.
Ololic · 1 points · Posted at 22:24:09 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So basically we don't know what the actual names are
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:59:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
We know what the names are within each book. Some books use different names for the same person.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:25:01 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
In Assyrian it's Isho, or Esho. Checks out.
AWildAnonHasAppeared · 1 points · Posted at 22:29:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hebrew speaker here. We call Jesus "Yeshu" because there are important historical figures named "Yehoshua"
Tekki357 · 1 points · Posted at 22:30:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Fascinating
rumborak · 1 points · Posted at 22:44:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's odd that English kept the original Latin spelling for Jesus, but not for the other people. In German for example it's Paulus, not Paul, and Matthäus, not Matthew.
xking_henry_ivx · 1 points · Posted at 22:47:59 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So is that where kanye got yeezus from?
falafel_eater · 1 points · Posted at 22:52:31 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeshu (ישו) isn't Jesus' actual name as far as I'm aware. Only Yeshu'a (ישוע). Yeshu is generally the way Jews refer to him, possibly because they didn't like him enough to want to use his actual name.
Yeshua and Yehoshua do sound very similar, but I wonder if they're actually the same name. The "Yeho" prefix doesn't often get abbreviated into just "Yeh" afaik.
Desertcyclone · 1 points · Posted at 23:00:43 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It does....
armada127 · 1 points · Posted at 23:01:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So what you're saying is that it would actually be Yeezus in English, and that our God and savior is actually with us today?
Milo_theHutt · 1 points · Posted at 23:02:12 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So, what were Peter's and John's real names?
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 00:02:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
John is easy, his name was Yohanan.
Peter is harder, literally and metaphorically. He was born Shimon (Simon). He took the nickname Kepa or Kefa, which meant stone. In Greek this became Petros, in Latin Petrus, from which we get Peter.
Milo_theHutt · 1 points · Posted at 00:26:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That didn't seem so hard to me. Cool stuff.
bazooopers · 1 points · Posted at 23:07:24 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
They're all just pronouns that people made up.... I dont understand how it could even be "translated"?
Desi_Casanova · 1 points · Posted at 23:08:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Also Jesus was a pretty damn common name in first century Palestine.
Wurstgeist · 1 points · Posted at 23:14:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, you're getting that wrong. If "Jesus" becomes "Joshua", "Joshua" also becomes "Joshua":
Yeshua was generally transcribed identically to "Jesus" in English. It was only when the Protestant Bible translators of ca. 1600 went back to the original languages that a distinction between Jesus and Jeshua appeared in English.
Yes, they would transcribe "Yeshua" to Jeshua (making an exception for their special guy, who kept the traditional Latin influenced form, "Jesus") and "Yehoshua" to Joshua. But one name is the short form of the other anyway, and some characters go by both forms in different parts of the bible.
The distinction between the longer Yehoshua and shorter Yeshua forms does not exist in Greek.
So it makes sense (for consistency) to render "Jesus" as either Jeshua, or, if we're being formal, Joshua.
emorockstar · 1 points · Posted at 23:21:23 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It also should be essentially a Transliteration, not a translation. But you are correct!
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:29:37 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Shouldn't a translation from Aramaic be included somewhere?
SomethingFreshToast · 1 points · Posted at 23:38:23 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I started calling my friend josh yeshua after doin a bunch of linguistic approximation work, take away is that something called linguistic parallel happens in regions so you get Tamil resembling Hebrew writing and then by parallelism you get isa yesu and jesus being similar and yeshua and Joshua being similar, rather than yeshua being Jesus
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:47:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
In German both "Jesus" and "Jesu" are actually used interchangeably.
SanityInAnarchy · 1 points · Posted at 23:47:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
If you shorten them, though, I think "Josh" makes sense for all of them. It also kind of drives home the point that "Jesus of Nazareth" wasn't some fancy, important title, it basically meant "Josh from two towns over".
Or, Yeshua bin Yosef would be "Joe's son Josh".
tyen0 · 1 points · Posted at 00:30:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Now there is a phrase I never thought I would see in regards to the bible. :)
iwannakillbarney101 · 1 points · Posted at 00:33:36 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This reminds me of a book I read called "Joshua in a troubled world"
terminbee · 1 points · Posted at 00:40:16 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Holy shit. In Vietnamese, it's pronounced Ye-soo, Ze-soo, or Reh-soo depending on the region you're from. I always wondered why. I guess it's closer than Jesus to the real pronunciation.
elijahblake · 1 points · Posted at 00:40:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So the new testament was written in Greek. Or atleast part of it.
morejesusish · 1 points · Posted at 00:55:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Unfortunately morejoshuaish doesn't roll off the tongue quite like morejes... Nvrmind.
kourkour · 1 points · Posted at 00:58:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah it's Ιήσους in Greek.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:04:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus owns an awful lot of landscaping companies in California.
MorrisM · 1 points · Posted at 01:11:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
And then... where from the Christ as last name came from? It's nearly Christmas, I was just wondering.
yes_or_gnome · 1 points · Posted at 01:13:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
How is this any different than the 13 different spellings of challah? You can literally organize the letters (in any order) h, a, l, and, optionally, begin with a c, and you'll have another correct spelling.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:28:49 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
There are many ways to write חלה (challah) in English, but it's only one word in Hebrew. The same goes for חנוכה which we spell Chanukah but others spell differently. Many ways to transliterate, but only one spelling in Hebrew.
Conversely the names ישו ,ישוע and יהושע are all forms of a related concept, but they are distinct words.
An example I gave elsewhere is the difference between יוֹנתן (Jonathan/Yonatan) and my name נתן (Nathan/Natan). Both come from the same root, use most of the same letters, and have the same interpretation, "he (God) has given." But that doesn't mean my name is Jonathan.
yes_or_gnome · 1 points · Posted at 01:39:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's very fascinating, thank you for the detailed explanation.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:23:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Where does Jehoshaphat enter into the equation?
SystemFolder · 1 points · Posted at 01:32:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This brings new meaning to the whole YHWH thing. Perhaps the real name is Yehohuwa?
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:39:00 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That is very much it's own word.
Consider too that YHWH is usually 'pronounced' hashem or adonai. Can you imagine having a name that isn't said out loud?
Many if not most Hebrew names reference God, either directly (by using part of his name) or indirectly (as the implied subject of a verb used as a name). But nobody is named YHWH.
Lindur · 1 points · Posted at 01:32:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
My mom is adamant about saying "Yeshua" and almost views the name "Jesus" as blasphemy
ngScee · 1 points · Posted at 01:41:55 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
My name is joshua, ive always known the hebrew translation to be "god saves".
imdungrowinup · 1 points · Posted at 02:05:00 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
In India we call him Isa in the north and Yeshu in the south. Yeshu in the south could be because Christianity came to south of India before it travelled west. So the original name remained. We also add a "Maseeh" at the end which is shortened form of maseeha meaning messiah in Hindi.
Aadriak · 1 points · Posted at 02:55:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
He wouldn't have been called Yeshua, in Galilee they would have said Yeshu
tdriser · 1 points · Posted at 03:46:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jeshua
Fredavisjnr · 1 points · Posted at 03:49:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Similar story around the "Virgin" birth. The original Hebrew word for Mary meant a young girl. That word, translated several times evolved into Virgin Mother. It actually was meant that the mother of the messiah (Mary) was a young girl.
SomethingFreshToast · 1 points · Posted at 04:20:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wurp
blammer · 1 points · Posted at 04:26:33 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Cool so that's why we call Jesus Ye-Shu in Chinese..the more you know. I always thought that was a weird translation from Jesus.
JamesTheJerk · 1 points · Posted at 04:43:00 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
At what point did these names bring about the connotation of divinity?
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 07:25:43 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Late Bronze Age, loooooong before the birth of Christ
Ionized052 · 1 points · Posted at 05:02:17 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Remarkable explanation and a great tldr. Am Israely, can confirm.
drummwill · 1 points · Posted at 05:04:02 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
can confirm
in mandarin jesus is 耶穌 pronounced yēh su
source: grew up in religious background
The_Big_Peck_1984 · 1 points · Posted at 06:18:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeshua Bar Yosef
delecti · 1 points · Posted at 18:26:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Eh, it just seems like a "Shawn" "Sean" situation to me. Kinda different names, but you it'd be fair to call them the same name.
Poden1234 · 1 points · Posted at 21:35:47 on December 20, 2016 · (Permalink)
Tell me why I followed all the a roo comment links which led me to this
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 21:56:55 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
What if all three of those are the result of an attempt to hide a pronunciation of Yahushua? Whether true or not, how about we study and try to get things right?
"4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12 (RNKJV)
AnticitizenPrime · 1 points · Posted at 23:09:28 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So it works like a magic spell, you don't get salvation if you don't know the magic words? Damn son.
OrganicMicroscopes · 0 points · Posted at 23:32:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That might not be saying we have to know a true pronunciation to be saved, but what's not worth putting some study into? :D
nigborg · -4 points · Posted at 21:29:31 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Little known fact, "Yeshu" actually stands for "Yimach Shmo Vezichro", or "May his name and memory be erased from history"
xD
DrBoomkin · 2 points · Posted at 21:46:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's a backronym. In Jesus' time it was simply the short form of Joshua.
robromero1203 · 1 points · Posted at 21:55:11 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Another cool acronym I learned is that the charges on the cross in Hebrew would be Yeshua Ha'natzari V'Melech Ha'yisrael "Jesus the Nazareth and King of the Jews' would be the acronym YHVH the devine name
nigborg · 1 points · Posted at 22:47:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
lmao that's retarded
frilink · 0 points · Posted at 01:24:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
the greek changed the "Y" to "J" in Yeshua to make it sound like a greek name since jews were seen as a second class citizen.....
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:51:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Don't spread misinformation. Greek doesn't even have a "Y" or a "J" as distinct letters.
In reality they spelled his name with an iota, which is derived from the same letter as yodh and had most of the same properties.
This became "I" in Latin. "J" was split off from "I" over a thousand years later.
Cthulhuman · 0 points · Posted at 01:41:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
To my understanding, the name Yeshua, or Yah-Shua translated means God (Yah) Saves (Shua). When all of the Apocrypha was translated to Greek the Greeks translated the name God Saves to Son of God, or Je-Sus, Son of (Je) Zeus (Sus).
Shekinahsgroom · 0 points · Posted at 02:31:15 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Not in the least bit accurate.
Fact is, Jesus' actual biblical name is unknown since every book in the NT is a forgery (copy) written in Greek.
Joshua's name written in Greek: Ἰησοῦς
Jesus' name written in Greek: Ἰησοῦν
Using wiktionary, here are the results:
Joshua: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%BC%B8%CE%B7%CF%83%CE%BF%E1%BF%A6%CF%82
Jesus: https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?search=%E1%BC%B8%CE%B7%CF%83%CE%BF%E1%BF%A6%CE%BD&title=Special:Search&go=Go&searchToken=dkoqwc3v2jt2diphg8n5ha97a
This is precisely where Christian leaders have repeatedly LIED about Jesus' Hebrew name. The Greek spelling of Jesus, translated into English, is actually the word CROSS.
Joshua comes into the picture due to the reference of him crossing the Jordan into the promised land. Yeshu, Yeshua, Yehoshua......all lies, 100% fabricated bullsh*t. Even the name "Jesus" is a lie.
Jesus of Nazareth's actual biblical name is NOT KNOWN since there's no reference to him (or his name) in the Old testament. The NT, in it's entirety, is written in Greek...all by 3rd party Romans hundreds of years after Jesus was crucified. Most Christians are completely oblivious of this truth and have NO IDEA that every single NT bible that's ever been published is based on these Greek texts (copy of a copy of a copy, then re-translated into Greek and copied again and again and again). The texts that we have could be the 4-500th edition of an unknown and countless number of copies. It would be like any of you writing a copy of the Declaration of Independence in French....from a 4-500th edition copy and then using your copy as "the gospel truth".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_the_Bible (The far right columns date the actual texts)
The Apostles were LONG dead before the earliest known copy John was actually written...in 125 A.D. Not a single book in the NT was written by it's author, they're all 3rd party copies written by Roman Pagans at the time of Constantine. Hence why they're all written in Greek and not Aramaic or Hebrew. And to make matters even worse, there's no original texts in existence. We don't even know if they exist at all.
Catholicism and most of Christianity is founded in Paganism.
Now here comes a HUGE bomb for anyone that celebrates Christmas. So if you wish to continue in believing the lies that your forefathers have passed down for 1700 years, then skip this next fact cuz it's REALLY gonna ruin your day!
Christmas in it's entirety is also a blatant lie, one that is so disgusting and truly evil, you may never celebrate it again....cuz here comes the TRUTH people!
Christmas is made of two words = Christ & Mass (2) links
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_(liturgy)
Translation? The DEATH (Mass) of the High Priest of God (Christ). Pretty sickening isn't it? Think about that the next time you celebrate Christmas.
Or worship the Sun God on SUNDAY! (2) links
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Invictus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday
The actual BIBLICAL SABBATH begins on Friday at sundown and ends on Saturday at sundown.
Lastly....most of Christianity is founded in lies. The NT was not only written by Pagans, but it was composed by Pagans. The NT is not scripture, it's a carefully planned deception:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea
Because the Romans omitted what didn't fit into Pagan beliefs and the control that Constantine and the Roman empire desired.....just like Herod and the Sanhedrin of Jesus' time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament_apocrypha
Most Christians truly have NO IDEA what Jesus actually taught, you only believe the lies that have been fed to you for almost 1700 years.
its_gay_jesus · -4 points · Posted at 22:04:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
jesus never existed so u can call him a unicorn, end of the day whatever u call him, he is bullshit
it's a touching story though
nurb101 · 653 points · Posted at 19:56:08 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
But in the Latin alphabet, "Joshua" begins with an "I"
hadriker · 437 points · Posted at 20:12:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
only the penitent man shall pass
[deleted] · 258 points · Posted at 20:53:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
Janeways_Ghost · 5 points · Posted at 01:42:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
She chose... Wesley
joshb343 · 5 points · Posted at 02:22:26 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Shut up Wesley!
newtizzle · 5 points · Posted at 04:09:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's Weasley...Ron Weasely
With-a-Cactus · 3 points · Posted at 04:46:31 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
As you wish
SanguinePar · 95 points · Posted at 20:28:25 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The penitent man... Neil!
THEBIGC01 · 36 points · Posted at 22:26:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Neil Young or Neil Diamond?
[deleted] · 39 points · Posted at 22:37:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Better. Neil Patrick Harris.
[deleted] · 7 points · Posted at 23:26:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
fco83 · 6 points · Posted at 00:36:44 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
We towed it outside the environment.
ThreeFistsCompromise · 3 points · Posted at 00:42:14 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Into another environment?
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 02:54:56 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Is it?
NightofSloths · 1 points · Posted at 03:10:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Lets' just say he's spent some time on his knees...
wtmh · 1 points · Posted at 03:47:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes.
pHScale · 45 points · Posted at 21:52:14 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Growing up, I always thought he said "the repetitive man shall pass." It made sense because he kept repeating it.
4me4you · 4 points · Posted at 00:34:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The translations my brain did as a kid were far less logical. The first translation was "penmanship man will pass". Second time watching it was "impotent man shall pass" didn't know what what impontence was as a 9 year old. It wasn't until I watched it as a teen I heard what he said and my young translations were all wrong. Favorite movie ever!
BoneDryLXIX · 2 points · Posted at 15:41:55 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I remember watching Spongebob, and when Patrick said "firmly grasp it" i always thought he said "firmly grass spread"
balrogwarrior · 3 points · Posted at 23:31:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
YOU. SHALL NOT. PASS!
_Big_Baby_Jesus_ · 2 points · Posted at 22:04:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's the previous test.
Chazwozel · 1 points · Posted at 03:09:00 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Penitent
kickinwayne45 · 1 points · Posted at 04:03:33 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The penitent... the penitent...
AstroEngiSci · 87 points · Posted at 21:58:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The Latin alphabet didn't have a J. For ages, "I" and "J" were the same letter in English. But the French started saying "J" sounds in some of their words, so they started using "J" to write them down, and eventually the English started doing that too.
[deleted] · 5 points · Posted at 00:48:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
AstroEngiSci · 8 points · Posted at 01:51:17 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The uppercase Greek Upsilon looks like a Y.
ReddEquinox · 4 points · Posted at 03:11:19 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Something I never realized about the Spanish name for "Y" until I saw it written out was that it's "i griega"... literally "Greek 'I'"
CementAggregate · 5 points · Posted at 03:34:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Have you ever spelled out the letter W?
eypandabear · 2 points · Posted at 21:39:26 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's not a "stupid fucking name", it's the name given to it by Greek grammarians, where the Romans borrowed it from.
NessieReddit · 1 points · Posted at 02:46:25 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Also Epsilon in German :)
eypandabear · 2 points · Posted at 21:38:36 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Uhm, no, it's Ypsilon. Epsilon is a different letter.
NessieReddit · 1 points · Posted at 07:26:05 on December 13, 2016 · (Permalink)
autocorrect :)
Coachkfan1 · 2 points · Posted at 01:48:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The English alphabet didn't have a "j" until the around the 1400's.
potatoes__everywhere · 78 points · Posted at 21:54:43 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus, too.
That's why it's INRI not JNRJ
v_for_vendeta · 6 points · Posted at 22:59:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Always wondered why hindi/Indian word for Jesus is "Issu". Makes sense now.
NessieReddit · 4 points · Posted at 02:45:43 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The Latin word for Jesus is Iesus, hence INRI.
BlueDrache · 15 points · Posted at 22:35:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I thought it was it said "I'm Not Really Ingestible"
brickmack · 5 points · Posted at 23:23:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
googles
King of the Jews is an awesome title. Do the Jews have a king now? I feel like Natalie Portman should be their queen, shes Jewish
sniperzoo · 16 points · Posted at 00:27:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't know man, Naboo didn't do too well....
jesusonadinosaur · 2 points · Posted at 00:55:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
John stewart
get_the_reference_ · 1 points · Posted at 00:59:56 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Damn, Natalie, you a crazy bitch.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 04:46:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
First of all, he says chick.
Secondly, YO SHUT THE FUCK UP AND SUCK MY DICK
get_the_reference_ · 1 points · Posted at 22:57:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Seems reasonable.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 07:07:05 on December 12, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah but do you get the reference?
get_the_reference_ · 1 points · Posted at 15:11:18 on December 12, 2016 · (Permalink)
I always pay for you dry cleaning when my shit gets in your shooooeee.
MY_GOOCH_HURTS · 2 points · Posted at 03:24:31 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
JRHNBR
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 22:29:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
dienamight · 3 points · Posted at 22:37:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Nah he was just Jewking
Don't downvote me, it literally means Jesus of Nazareth king of the Jews
TheHumanParacite · 3 points · Posted at 03:04:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I will not down vote you, but only because you told me not to.
dienamight · 2 points · Posted at 03:05:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Appreciated lol
Teh_Slayur · 1 points · Posted at 02:51:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
whoosh
desertlynx · 33 points · Posted at 22:05:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The letter j started life as just a fancy form of the letter i.
Carrabs · 3 points · Posted at 23:13:50 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Those fancy Romans.
Anrza · 54 points · Posted at 21:57:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because the letter J has only been recognised as a letter separate from I for about 500 years.
NoddysShardblade · 2 points · Posted at 04:47:19 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
wtf next you'll be telling me w came from two u's
smiley_x · 23 points · Posted at 21:31:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The name John in latin also starts with an "I".
Shoninjv · 43 points · Posted at 21:47:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
All names starting with a J, basically.
Erkumbulant · 16 points · Posted at 22:21:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Fun fact: this was because the letter J wasn't actually in Latin (not at first, anyway). There was only the letter I, which was used to make the Y sound (to confuse things further, Latin had the letter Y, but it made a sort of U sound similar to the one in French), so "Julius Caesar" would be "IVLIVS CAESAR" (they also didn't have lowercase letters or the letter U; rather, the letter V made both the U and W sounds) and Jesus would be "IESVS".
Later on, the letter I was sometimes stylized as J, until J became a separate letter entirely (still pronounced as Y, as it still is in most European languages), which is why we have "Julius" and "Jesus", but they'd be said "Yulius" and "Yesus" and written with an I in Classical Latin. All names starting with a J are Latinized with an I: "Jacob" becomes "IACOBVS" for example.
pandaSmore · 5 points · Posted at 00:41:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Okay so when did they start pronouncing J like j.
Erkumbulant · 2 points · Posted at 01:29:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
From here: "[...] Subsequently, in the Latin alphabet the letter J was developed as a variant of I, and this distinction was later used to distinguish the consonantal "y" sound [j] from the vocalic "i" sound [i]. However, at about the same time there was a sound change in many of the languages of Western Europe, such that the "y" sound changed into a "j" sound ([dʒ], or sometimes [ʒ]). So we have it that in English, the letter J now represents a consonant [dʒ] which is not obviously similar to the vowel [i], despite the fact that they descend from the same letter and the same sound. (English also has many [dʒ] sounds spelled with J which come from native Germanic roots.)"
(If you don't know the phonetic alphabet: the ʒ sound is the G in "genre"/"regime" or the S in pleasure. With a D in front of it, /dʒ/ is the English J sound. The sound listed above as [j] is the English Y sound, but it is written in the phonetic alphabet as /j/ because it's said that way in most European languages.)
It seems that it wasn't related to an alphabet, but rather to a change in the language(s) itself. English is the only language that uses it to make the /dʒ/ sound.
IAmGrilBTW · 3 points · Posted at 22:44:35 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Can you explain a bit please? How was his name IVULIUS without a U?
Erkumbulant · 3 points · Posted at 23:16:14 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sorry, typo. I'll fix that.
IAmGrilBTW · 2 points · Posted at 23:42:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
No worries, it makes a lot more sense now :)
shinobigamingyt · 2 points · Posted at 23:06:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
He said Latin had the letter Y, but it made a sort of U sound, so wouldn't it be "IVYLIYS CAESAR"?
Erkumbulant · 3 points · Posted at 23:16:50 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Typo, sorry. I fixed it. The letter Y didn't make the U sound like it is in English - it was more of the French "u". The letter V was both U and W. Later on, it was sometimes written as U, with a more rounded bottom, and for a while they were interchangeable. Eventually, V as a consonant changed its sound to the V sound we have in English today, but we still needed to represent the W sound, so two Vs were put together - this was still when it could be written as U - to make a W, which was then given the very creative name "double-u".
This is why "Veni, vidi, vici" is said "Weni, widi, wiki" in Classical Latin.
unsayablepeak · 1 points · Posted at 23:35:59 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Does this mean Da Vinci's name was in fact pronounced Da Winki? No wonder dude was popular with the ladies.
NinjaTurkey_ · 2 points · Posted at 00:28:33 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Probably not, considering that his name is in Italian and not Latin.
Erkumbulant · 2 points · Posted at 01:16:16 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
He was Italian, so his name was said like in Italian ("da vinchi"), not Latin.
unsayablepeak · 2 points · Posted at 17:11:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah, I'm sorry, I was just making a dumb joke. Where I am from 'winky' is a euphemism for penis. I do understand the difference between Italian and Latin. Thank you for taking the safe route and making sure I didn't go around ignorant!
bug_ridden_prototype · 2 points · Posted at 00:29:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The letter J wasn't even unambiguously in English until the 19th century. That's why in the District, where the east-west streets are named alphabetically, there's no "J Street." It goes straight from I Street to K Street because at the time the streets were laid out "J" was considered a variant letter of "I" and not a distinct letter of its own.
thebeautifulstruggle · 2 points · Posted at 02:06:56 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So you're saying Yeesus is correct. Kanye why did I ever doubt you!?!?!
Erkumbulant · 2 points · Posted at 02:44:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes. In a way, it's actually more correct - as in closer to the original pronounciation - than Jesus with a J sound.
One must not doubt Kanye, ever.
NessieReddit · 1 points · Posted at 02:49:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Fun fact, in Latin the letter C was pronounced like a K so Caesar sounded like the German Kaiser, which is where the word comes from.
Erkumbulant · 2 points · Posted at 03:18:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The letter G was also originally a C with a single stroke added to it along the bottom. G, J, U, and W are just modified forms of other letters, although there are probably more than just those four that fall into the category.
k3vin187 · 1 points · Posted at 03:00:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Did you just say yeezus?
he_adds_nothing · 1 points · Posted at 23:53:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Klockmon · 1 points · Posted at 23:56:23 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Javier?
k3nnyd · 1 points · Posted at 02:03:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Also the same in Cyrillic languagues (ie. Russian). They had tanks like the IS which stood for Iosif (Joseph) Stalin.
UtahStateAgnostics · 3 points · Posted at 23:30:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And if I'm not mistaken, it's spelled, "Ian" - which is now a separate name to us from John.
WaitWhatting · 1 points · Posted at 22:13:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Team has no I
Teggert · 1 points · Posted at 23:10:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
But there is an I in pie. There's an I in meat pie. ...the anagram of meat is team. I don't know what he's talking about.
nahuatlwatuwaddle · 1 points · Posted at 22:16:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Becomes "Yohn" or "yonn"
microcosmic5447 · 3 points · Posted at 21:59:20 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
It's more like, "The English i, y, and j all have their roots in the Latin I, but were later split into three distinct phonemes".
Edit- It wouldn't have been like Ioshua either, both because Latin didn't have a sh sound, and because masculine names dont really end in -a. They end generally in us, so it'd be "Iesus". Which is really just a derivative of the Greek "Iesos".
willsteerforORRI · 2 points · Posted at 22:03:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nobody told this poor girl
Pinuzzo · 2 points · Posted at 22:20:50 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
All Latin words that began with a consontal i became a "zh" (measure) in French and a "j" (judge) in Italian. We get our words Joshua from the French.
Poopiepants29 · 2 points · Posted at 22:45:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Joshua Christ, here we go..
Copse_Of_Trees · 5 points · Posted at 22:10:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
How the fuck is this not the top comment. I mean, it's great that the top comment currently is just factual and helpful, that's actually fantastic. But c'mon, this quote should not be buried this deeply. Get on it people.
MagisterTJL · 3 points · Posted at 22:50:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
A lot of people whooshed on it
nurb101 · 3 points · Posted at 00:06:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
They have replied... poorly.
killerz298 · 1 points · Posted at 02:49:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
We old.....
Redbird9346 · 1 points · Posted at 21:58:01 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not that much different than Greek, really. (Ἰησοῦς Χριστός)
Frozenlazer · 1 points · Posted at 21:59:23 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I liked how in the old school "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade" video game. The one where you click like "Pick Up" "Walk To" etc, the language and spelling for that puzzle changed with each play thru.
Loved that game. Still play it sometimes in DosBox.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 22:04:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Do we really need to go through Latin to transliterate an original Name into English?
JeffTheLess · 1 points · Posted at 22:11:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, I mean, classical latin, yea there's no J. But a thousand years after his death, J is a thing, and he has it. That was still the 'latin alphabet' too.
Pokeputin · 1 points · Posted at 22:32:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Maybe the english guys were electric engineers so they replaced the I with j.
Plasticcaz · 1 points · Posted at 23:14:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
In Hebrew, his name is ישוע. The "י" letter makes a "yeh" or "i" sound depending on context, so when translated to Greek and Latin, you're right: They used an "I".
Apparently "J" also used to make a "y" sound sometime back there, and over time it started making the sound we know today.
I have recently started learning Hebrew out of interest, and was surprised to learn that that instead of calling themselves Jewish, its actually "Yehudi", and Jerusalem, is actually "Yerushalayem". They don't teally use the "Jeh" sound as far as I can tell.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:56:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
This is what I came for... thank you
DatBuridansAss · 1 points · Posted at 00:13:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
pie iesu domine, dona eis requiem
THWACK
ewbrower · 1 points · Posted at 01:02:02 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The Latin word for "gawrsh" is "yawrsh"
xxkoloblicinxx · 1 points · Posted at 01:33:25 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
In hebrew it actually starts with a Y though.
imdungrowinup · 1 points · Posted at 02:08:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That explains why in many parts of India he called Isa or Isaah. I thought we just changed it randomly at some point.
DMPunk · 1 points · Posted at 02:34:49 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
J!
plummets to death
Karma_Redeemed · 1 points · Posted at 04:59:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I believe that's because there is no letter J in the Latin Alphabet. For must of the alphabets history it was just another of the sounds that the letter I could make.
mostagha · 1 points · Posted at 14:17:39 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That always bothered me. The letter J wouldn't have been around at whatever time that was made, and if J was in use by whoever created it, it would have been used in the spelling.
APersoner · 1 points · Posted at 19:43:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
And Jesus starts with an I in Welsh too: Iesu.
Surfing_Ninjas · 512 points · Posted at 19:30:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Now saying "I'm just joshing you" is taking the Lord's name in vain.
FerrumLilikoi · 104 points · Posted at 20:20:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That gives that phrase a whole new meaning
steve0suprem0 · 106 points · Posted at 20:48:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The actual story of the phrase was a blind guy (named joshua) who gold plated nickels and passed them off as 5 dollar pieces. When he was found out and sued, he won because he never actually asked for the change he was receiving.
Source: Paul harvey
[deleted] · 33 points · Posted at 21:27:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And that's the rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrest of the stor-ry.
Draconius42 · 6 points · Posted at 21:47:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
*and now you know
Galrowre · 8 points · Posted at 23:04:08 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
the rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrest of the stor-ry.
Draconius42 · 3 points · Posted at 23:41:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Good day!
get_the_reference_ · 2 points · Posted at 01:03:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Stop. Next page.
white_android · 2 points · Posted at 23:02:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
YouKnowNothing.jpeg
sonickarma · 2 points · Posted at 03:17:56 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wow, a Paul Harvey reference on Reddit.
Bears_On_Stilts · 3 points · Posted at 22:19:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
According to Snopes, it's a reference to silent humorist Josh Billings, not to the con artist of similar name.
steve0suprem0 · 6 points · Posted at 01:45:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
i'm far more inclined to trust paul harvy than the snopes cat lady.
GadgetTR · 0 points · Posted at 23:01:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
"It's your fault for falling for my trick!"
Weird to think the justification I usually hear when people are defending internet bullies actually held up in court.
JuanDeLasNieves_ · 7 points · Posted at 22:57:37 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Just say "goshing you" so you don't go to heck
josh42390 · 1 points · Posted at 01:27:15 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Don't ever say that again...
havearedpill · 1 points · Posted at 22:00:03 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus Fucking Christ we can't get away with anything anymore.
thebigbadben · 3 points · Posted at 22:39:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's just an expression, no need to crucify me over it
moarscience · 3 points · Posted at 22:06:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Joshua Fucking Christ. Coming to a 4k porn near you
Y1ff · 1011 points · Posted at 16:57:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Joshua Christ just doesn't sound as cool.
HeywardH · 1037 points · Posted at 17:39:37 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
How about Yeshua Hamashiach?
Y1ff · 235 points · Posted at 17:47:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I like that one.
HeywardH · 625 points · Posted at 17:52:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And John the Baptist?
Yochanan the Immerser.
Y1ff · 304 points · Posted at 18:03:22 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That sounds fucking cool. I like this language.
zakarranda · 267 points · Posted at 20:24:09 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
If an Uruk-hai had the title "The Immerser," I would run the fuck the other way.
JamCliche · 124 points · Posted at 20:54:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Gravewalker! Man gave me new scar! Now I'll give you one!
[deleted] · 59 points · Posted at 22:00:55 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Oh fuck off would you, ive killed you 15 times and your head is just a sack held together with metal plates just die!"
Fucking Mozu the Thirsty
Wampawacka · 64 points · Posted at 22:18:50 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
I had an Azdush in my game. I let him live and made him a war chief just so I could stop by occasionally to hear his men chant "Ass Douche! Ass Douche!"
SpottyNoonerism · 10 points · Posted at 23:07:04 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Thank you. Just came from the Goofy story about the girls and needed to laugh at something silly and sophomoric.
daaanson · 3 points · Posted at 01:13:36 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
you just had to remind us :(
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 01:56:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
An ass douche sounds like something my nemesis in that game could've used. He was called Káka bood-hand
[deleted] · 4 points · Posted at 23:45:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Chaotic Neutral
JamCliche · 3 points · Posted at 22:06:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Olgoth the Humiliator tho
sothatsathingnow · 1 points · Posted at 23:03:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ooh man, Hoshu the Red. What a fucker. Asshole killed me so many times he worked his own way up to war chief. Most satisfying boss battle I've ever had though. I don't even remember the story of that game, I just kept making my way through it so I could unlock more powerful abilities to take on Hoshu. He would kill me, I'd go back to the story, he'd kill me again. When I did eventually kill him I just quit because there was no way the actual game ending was going to be any better.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:17:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That was me. I became so obsessed with hunting captains when i finally got through to more powers i had wiped most of the board
Algebrax · 1 points · Posted at 02:04:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Are you supposed to have the dude that killed you the most as a final baws in the vanilla ending even if you killed him already? That pissed me the Fuck off.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 02:15:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah i think your ultimate nemesis is that uruk. Mozu popped back up for me at the end, but oh boy did i end him.
Though i really only had like 1 or 2 other uruks pop up after killing the, but Mozu never stopped coming back.
Algebrax · 1 points · Posted at 03:10:36 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah I thought if you killed them, they were gone forever
BattleStag17 · 1 points · Posted at 05:08:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What is this a reference to? Sounds like an awesome movie/book/game.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 05:47:19 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Lord of the Rings: Shadow of Mordor. It plays like Assassins Creed and Batman Arkham series but features a system of bosses in the open world's which have randomised names and perks. Defeating or being defeated by these captains and warchiefs also effects other Uruks with a system of power between them.
And everybody has 1 asshole who wont stay dead.
BattleStag17 · 1 points · Posted at 12:53:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ah yes, I have heard great things about the enemy advancement system. Thanks!
yuedar · 21 points · Posted at 20:59:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
so your saying you wouldn't run from a regular uruk-hai?
GamerLeFay · 32 points · Posted at 21:47:04 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not if I'm the goddamn gravewalker.
racc8290 · 2 points · Posted at 00:52:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Or a Ringwinner. Or Luckwearer. Or a Barrel Rider
Kain_niaK · 1 points · Posted at 22:49:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Moriah is in the Bible.
balrogwarrior · 1 points · Posted at 23:32:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Can we just eat their legs?
Adjal · 1 points · Posted at 03:26:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Christ means anointed one. To anoint means to rub oil onto.
"The Oil Rubbed" would be a less intimidating title.
Kai_Daigoji · 6 points · Posted at 22:08:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Aramaic is fucking metal.
Golgotha: Place of the skull.
Akeldama - Field of blood.
BugcatcherJay · 23 points · Posted at 20:10:14 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You like the translation. The actual language sounds gross when spoken by 13 year old boys.
Havok-Trance · 34 points · Posted at 20:33:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
All pubescent children make songs sound terrible, and Hebrew spoken during a bar mitzvah is song not spoken.
xronorx · 7 points · Posted at 21:44:50 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
ששששש, כולם נשמעים כמו זין בבר מיצווה.
[deleted] · 8 points · Posted at 22:16:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
beardedcroughton · 12 points · Posted at 22:23:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It translates to "shhhhh, everyone sounds like dick at bar mitzvahs"
white_android · 3 points · Posted at 23:01:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Pretty sure it actually says "Oh, dreidel, dreidel, dreidel I made you out of clay And when you’re dry and ready Oh Dreidel we shall play"
xronorx · 2 points · Posted at 00:00:26 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, I said if you mess with jews you get circumcised, kapish?
Havok-Trance · 2 points · Posted at 00:08:48 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not making anti-Semitism funny. You're conflicting my dark sense of humor and pride in my heritage! Lol
beardedcroughton · 1 points · Posted at 01:50:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
ah, the classic anti-semetic jew
Havok-Trance · 2 points · Posted at 00:07:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
ההה And it's sad that at 22 laughing in Hebrew is the most comfortable with our language. (Why I need Ulpan)
[deleted] · 5 points · Posted at 21:05:59 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ani ohev l'zaiyen susim.
slightlyaw_kward · 1 points · Posted at 22:27:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
http://yoylo.com/app/uploads/2016/06/willy-wonka-go-on-e1466140394381.jpg
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 22:31:36 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ve ha susim ohevim l'zaien i'ti.
slightlyaw_kward · 1 points · Posted at 22:32:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
iti or oti? I guess they both work.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:33:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Haven't spoken Hebrew in years, and even when I did, I was far from fluent.
slightlyaw_kward · 1 points · Posted at 22:36:22 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I mean I think they both work. Though ani ohev lirvoa susim might be more accurate.
Mister-builder · 1 points · Posted at 22:38:28 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You love seven horses?
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:02:24 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That would be seven.
funksaurus · 3 points · Posted at 22:14:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Todah raba, chaveri. :)
Mister-builder · 2 points · Posted at 22:38:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
TIL Hebrew sounds cool to non-Jews
Draeorc · 1 points · Posted at 04:59:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It is pretty cool.
danielm8 · 38 points · Posted at 21:42:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yochanan hamatbil, if you wanna go full Hebrew
[deleted] · -2 points · Posted at 22:01:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Actually Yonatan, not Yochanan
slightlyaw_kward · 15 points · Posted at 22:29:50 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nope, John is short for Yochanan. Yochanan > Johann > John. Jon is actually short for Jonathan which is Yonatan.
jrc5053 · 3 points · Posted at 22:53:37 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
HOLY SHIT THANK YOU.
leonffs · 6 points · Posted at 21:51:15 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That sounds like an orc name in shadow of mordor.
Mister-builder · 3 points · Posted at 00:03:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Shimon Bar Kokhva (Simon, son of the stars) was a great revolutionary who fought so well, it took years for legions gathered from all over Rome years to finally reconquer Israel.
Yehuda Hamakabe (Judah The Hammer) was a warrior who defeated the armies of King Antioches with only his Maccabees.
Nir Barkat is the mayor of Jerusalem, and tackled a terrorist last year, saving the life of one of his constituents.
RadSpaceWizard · 3 points · Posted at 21:52:55 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
\m/
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 22:28:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Yochanan the Immerser
Sounds like a named boss in a dungeon crawler RPG.
Shenk the Overseer, Eldritch the Rectifiern, Lister the Tormentor, etc., are all examples of named monsters in Diablo II.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 21:30:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
dont forget the nev'eim, Isiaih = YeshaYahu, Jeremiah = YirmeYahu, Ezekiel = Yehezqel
bahh, dont have a book at hand, thought I would remember more than 3
tylorban · 1 points · Posted at 05:18:11 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What book would you be referring to?
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:58:17 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
several bibles with Hebrew names of people/places restored
thisuserkills · 1 points · Posted at 21:58:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yochanan Ha'Matbil
bad_memory_bot · 1 points · Posted at 22:22:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
John came from Yochanan? I thought john was Yonasan....
bagomagik · 1 points · Posted at 22:23:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Presenting The Bible, by George RR Martin.
CuteThingsAndLove · 1 points · Posted at 22:26:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
What about John the Revelator?
ariheretic · 2 points · Posted at 03:11:12 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Have you heard?
Psyladine · 1 points · Posted at 23:43:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sounds like a Lucavi.
psycholepzy · 1 points · Posted at 00:16:49 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ronan the Accuser's brother, back for revenge.
racc8290 · 1 points · Posted at 00:49:25 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Someone needs to make an open-world RPG with these characters
frilink · 1 points · Posted at 01:30:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
John in arabic is "Yahya"
spooniverse · 1 points · Posted at 01:55:16 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Pretty dope MTG card title, there.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 02:24:48 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Metal as fuck.
lordeddardstark · 1 points · Posted at 02:45:24 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yochanan Damphair
phatcrits · 1 points · Posted at 03:03:25 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I would love more biblical name translations if you don't mind.
HeywardH · 1 points · Posted at 05:29:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Mary is the name Miriam, the same as Moses' sister.
jicty · 1 points · Posted at 21:51:55 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That name is so bad Ass it sounds like a villan in an anime.
beardedcroughton · -1 points · Posted at 22:21:14 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
FTFY
CallMeAladdin · 130 points · Posted at 21:04:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
As someone who speaks the modern dialect of the language Jesus actually spoke, we pronounce it Eshoo Msheekha.
[deleted] · 83 points · Posted at 21:24:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
anthonyvardiz · 109 points · Posted at 21:33:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Wait I thought Jesus spoke Aramaic? Where did Assyrian come from?
EDIT: Nvm. I did some research and it turns out Modern Aramaic is spoken by ethnic Assyrians. TIL.
SerjoHlaaluDramBero · 22 points · Posted at 00:09:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It sounds beautiful when sung.
le_x_X · 5 points · Posted at 01:08:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wow that's incredible. Sends chills down my spine.
deleteandrest · 5 points · Posted at 00:33:29 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKWKDOiHVDw
happypolychaetes · 4 points · Posted at 04:24:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That is beautiful. Thank you for that link.
Spy_Fox64 · 3 points · Posted at 06:05:30 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Its a beautiful video. But its even more fun to imagine the man with the beard and thinning hair passive aggressively fighting the little girl for the solo spotlight.
ovamopice · 2 points · Posted at 05:38:33 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wow thank you! That transported me
IcarusBen · 2 points · Posted at 00:43:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I thought he spoke Hebrew.
anthonyvardiz · 8 points · Posted at 00:47:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_of_Jesus
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/05/27/what-language-did-jesus-speak-the-pope-and-israels-prime-minister-disagree/
Aramaic was the everyday language of the region. Hebrew was more of a religious language that was used only by religious authorities at the time. I'm sure Jesus understood Hebrew however as he was Jewish.
ohitsasnaake · -1 points · Posted at 02:39:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Maybe understood a bit of Greek and/or Latin too, at least some words or phrases. To the extent that he actually existed, at least.
Interus · 2 points · Posted at 02:25:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Hebrew and Aramaic was spoken in various parts of ancient Israel. I believe overall Aramaic had overtaken Hebrew. But since Jewish religious rites were still in Hebrew, if he studied the old testament and was a rabbi- he had to know Hebrew.
Given how much the early church tried to distance Christianity from Judaism by, among other things, changing the day of Sabbath, circumcision, kosher, cleanliness rites, as well as ignoring Jewish holidays.. we really have no idea how accurate the common assertion that Aramaic was the primary language. It mightve simply beeen a "stop calling us Jews dammit" thing.
anthonyvardiz · 3 points · Posted at 02:27:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yup I responded to someone else with a couple links and expanded on it. Aramaic was the everyday language for many people in the Levant whereas Hebrew was primarily a religious language.
atizzy · 2 points · Posted at 00:19:44 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
There are two main dialects of modern Aramaic (neo-Aramaic),
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaldean_Neo-Aramaic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_Neo-Aramaic
CallMeAladdin · 49 points · Posted at 21:29:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Omg, there's two of us??
Tuxedomex · 3 points · Posted at 21:59:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
What's the transliteration of that?
SerjoHlaaluDramBero · 3 points · Posted at 00:11:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I am so sorry about what your people are going through right now. I will continue to keep them in my prayers. I hope your family is safe.
CallMeAladdin · 16 points · Posted at 00:26:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Thanks for your concern, my parents also think the city they live in, Phoenix, AZ, is a dangerous place as well.
Lspins89 · 1 points · Posted at 01:51:18 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9xfzZ7KGEv8
SerjoHlaaluDramBero · 1 points · Posted at 17:07:29 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wow man. I thought it was pretty obvious I wasn't talking about your parents in Phoenix.
haf-haf · 5 points · Posted at 00:24:16 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
just now? say at least the last hundred years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_genocide
hammerific · 3 points · Posted at 23:22:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
*Oh my Eshoo Msheekha?
Mister-builder · 2 points · Posted at 00:04:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Username may or may not check out depending on if I'm racist.
CallMeAladdin · 7 points · Posted at 00:09:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
As a Disney freak and with Aladdin being the only positive middle-eastern Disney main character, it's not racist, lol.
atizzy · 2 points · Posted at 00:22:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Player 3 has entered the match.
Shout out to my village
CallMeAladdin · 2 points · Posted at 00:27:17 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
My dad is Tyariah (sp? lol) and mom is Hallanehta.
blehbleh1234321 · 2 points · Posted at 01:51:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I can read aramaic! does that count! am I one of you guys too? I understood it when they were speaking passion of the Christ!
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:52:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Make that three!
[deleted] · 4 points · Posted at 23:07:35 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
CallMeAladdin · 3 points · Posted at 23:35:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Bala doon miryah. Biqshawin itlee neshlah.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 21:57:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't know if you're much of a sports fan but since you're an Assyrian you might find this cool. There is an Assyrian fighter in the ufc and he absolutely kicks ass, he knocks out and submits dudes left and right. His name is Beneil Dariush. I know this isn't very relevant to the conversation but I thought you might be interested that such a bad ass Assyrian exists.
redditman3600 · 7 points · Posted at 22:21:11 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yup. He's highly revered in our community!
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 22:45:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's nice to hear that he is appreciated, he's a hell of a fighter.
KilowogTrout · 12 points · Posted at 22:23:03 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
As someone who lives in America where a few people believe Jesus spoke English...ok.
Bears_Bearing_Arms · 3 points · Posted at 00:19:18 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's just the Mormons and they don't count.
Bears_On_Stilts · 3 points · Posted at 22:16:01 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
My grandparents often used the minced oath "sheeshka maggoona!" I thought it was some Yiddish doggerel picked up as carpathian christians, but it appears it's a corrupted version of Jesus's name in Aramaic. Wild.
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 03:01:55 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
ܝܶܫܘܽܥ ܡܫܝܺܚܳܐ is "Yeshū Mshiyhō" in Jacobite/Western Syriac.
Rippa70 · 1 points · Posted at 03:48:29 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Could we please call it West Assyrian? Suryoyo (the "syriac" languague) is West Assyrian and Othuroyo is East Assyrian. There is no western Syriac.
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 03:54:53 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
ܐܶܢܳܐ ܐ̱ܢܳܐ ܡܰܠܦܳܢ ܠܶܫܳܢܳܐ ܣܘܽܪܝܳܝܳܐ . I call it 'Syriac.' Every scholar I know calls it that. Every book I read on it calls it that. Is this some political thing about which I'm unaware?
Rippa70 · 1 points · Posted at 16:58:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You just called it West Syriac, that implies there is something called east Syriac which is purely false. Call the language of the west Assyrians Syriac. Source: I am an Assyrian speaking Syriac.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 17:02:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, 'Western' is one way of describing the way things are pronounced. We don't make a distinction, for instance, between ܘ̇ and ܘܽ in our pronunciation (so ܝܰܥܩܘܒ is "Yaqub" for us, not "Yaqob" as someone in the East would pronounce it). We likewise pronounce ܳ as a long o, so ܐܰܠܳܗܳܐ is "Alōhō".
Secondly, distinguishing between Western and Eastern pronunciations in no way makes any claims about Eastern Syriac being somehow defective. I'm not sure where you got that idea.
redditman3600 · 2 points · Posted at 22:20:36 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Shlamalookh Akhoona.
valryuu · 2 points · Posted at 00:01:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Bless you. -hands tissue over-
CallMeAladdin · 3 points · Posted at 00:09:00 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oddly enough, in lieu of "bless you" when someone sneezes you start listing holy names in my language, and there is an order for each sneeze.
Ya Alah (O God) Ya Msheekha (O Christ) Ya Mutmariam (O Mary) Then saints and so on...
atizzy · 2 points · Posted at 00:25:33 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I love when old people get up or sit down they say:
"Eshoo, Meriam, Mar Yousip"
= "Jesus, Mary, Joseph" for all you non Mesopotamians.
CallMeAladdin · 2 points · Posted at 00:28:31 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The saint is heavily dependent on the family. For mine it's Mar Gewargis all day long. It's my baptized name as well, lol.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 21:59:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
bripod · 1 points · Posted at 22:05:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
*Yasua
crappyMangaka · 1 points · Posted at 23:02:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hey there how we South Indians pronounce it too.
deleteandrest · 1 points · Posted at 00:34:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
A song by Indian band in aramic
imdungrowinup · 1 points · Posted at 02:06:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
In India he is called Yeshu maseeh or Isa maseeh. Maseeh means messiah. But India is closer so similar names make sense.
Havok-Trance · 86 points · Posted at 20:38:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That isn't his last name that would have been a title. Since HaMashiach means "The Anointed One." His name was likely Yeshua Ben-Yosef (Joshua son of Joseph)
African_Lorelord · 121 points · Posted at 21:20:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
But in English it's:
"Josh, Joey's son...who calls himself the Savior."
lowertechnology · 54 points · Posted at 21:34:14 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Brother of Jimmy.
brainstorm42 · 6 points · Posted at 00:52:26 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nephew of John
waggie21 · 1 points · Posted at 03:07:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jimmy Christ!
KrunchyKale · 4 points · Posted at 22:32:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oily Josh
MahatmaBuddah · 2 points · Posted at 00:55:00 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You know he never called himself that. I remeber reading the disciples refered to Josh mostly as the "Teacher of Righteousness"...or Rabbi Josh
Havok-Trance · 3 points · Posted at 00:47:08 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I am Josh son of Joey son of John son of Gimli son of Quasimodo of Nazareth.
microcosmic5447 · 3 points · Posted at 21:54:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Christ isn't his last name either, so it's an equivalent parallel. HaMasiach and Christos are both honorifics, they just sound like last names to modern people who are used to the firstname-lastname structure. I've always liked Tolkein's similar rendering "Theoden King" for a more moden equivalent.
Kain_niaK · 2 points · Posted at 22:51:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yep, Messiah means "anointed one" as in he is the one anointed as king. Hebrew tradition would be to put oil on a person's hair as a gesture of saying: this guy is going to our king.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 02:39:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
or Yeshua Ben-Yahovah, If you were a follower of his...
CoffeeAndSwords · 2 points · Posted at 04:22:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
IIRC Yaweh was too holy of a name to speak or write most of the time. And back then, holy didn't necessarily mean human-friendly.
slayman2001 · 2 points · Posted at 15:21:14 on December 13, 2016 · (Permalink)
I thought that he was the son of Mary and Joseph Christ. I guess I better go talk to my Sunday School teacher and straighten this out.
CrackedGoggles · 1 points · Posted at 23:05:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Does this make Jesus the original Jojo?
Havok-Trance · 1 points · Posted at 00:48:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Just as long as it's not the original Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo
IcarusBen · 1 points · Posted at 00:44:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
My name is Ben Soto.
Does that mean in the son of Soto?
Havok-Trance · 1 points · Posted at 00:45:55 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Is ben your first name or a part of your last name. If it's a part of your last name and year of Jewish descent then yes. If it's your first name no your name is Ben
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 02:44:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's a pretty catchy name...Jon Bon Jovi.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 02:44:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's a pretty catchy name...Jon Bon Jovi.
SoggyBarSoap · 46 points · Posted at 20:17:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ham Sandwich?
HeywardH · 41 points · Posted at 20:21:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Ha" comes from the Hebrew letter Hey when used as a prefix it means "The"
"Mashiach" or "Messiah" means "Anointed one"
Philip_Marlowe · 11 points · Posted at 20:39:04 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Matisyahu droppin' knowledge bombs over here.
[deleted] · 10 points · Posted at 21:13:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's pronounced Szechuan Hamsamulburg in Hebrew.
439115 · 10 points · Posted at 21:41:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
ah yes the son of God himself Sizzling Hamburger
drfsrich · 3 points · Posted at 21:55:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Benedict Cumberbatch?"
tinykeyboard · 2 points · Posted at 21:37:25 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
i don't think they can eat those things.
ours · 2 points · Posted at 22:01:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
They crucified him for it. Blessed be the ham.
THEBIGC01 · 2 points · Posted at 22:28:54 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's not kosher
SonofYeshua · 20 points · Posted at 18:51:35 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's how I refer to Him.
SanguinePar · 25 points · Posted at 20:24:43 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wouldn't you just call him Dad?
HeywardH · 43 points · Posted at 20:29:57 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
There was a man who went to my church who would always pray referring to God as "dad" or "daddy." It sounded so weirdly informal as opposed to "father." It does mean the same thing, sure, but I never got used to hearing him say it.
AnticitizenPrime · 15 points · Posted at 23:36:43 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Kneels to pray
What's hip, Daddy-o?
nietsleumas94 · 7 points · Posted at 21:28:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think this is a Jewish thing originally. I know it was pretty normal where I went as a kid, but then again our rebbe was kind of zany, lots of belly rubs etc.
[deleted] · 29 points · Posted at 21:48:08 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
dragontail · 11 points · Posted at 21:51:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Shit is weird
Source: Not a jew
Tuxedomex · 6 points · Posted at 22:00:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wasn't Jesus supposed to say 'abba' when referring to God, as in dad? Forgive my memory, I could be wrong.
moskonia · 8 points · Posted at 22:32:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
'Abba' is father in Hebrew, but I don't think they spoke Hebrew at the time.
mugdays · 3 points · Posted at 22:49:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yup, Hebrew was mostly a liturgical language at that time.
Sefirot8 · 2 points · Posted at 23:04:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
but I think abba was an informal way to say it, like how we would say daddy instead of father.
Bakkster · 1 points · Posted at 23:43:43 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That is my understanding of the word, that it was the informal word a child would use for their dad, rather than something you would use to refer to someone else's father.
loljetfuel · 1 points · Posted at 00:14:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not exactly; there was a scholar a long time ago who suggested that 'abba' was like 'daddy', in that it's a thing small children would call their fathers.
But the problem with that is that it's not in any way limited to children, and the sense of it in other texts is more along the lines of a term of endearment rather than a diminutive.
If I were translating it for modern English, I'd probably choose "papa" or "dad" over "daddy", for that reason.
See this quick discussion on Wikipedia if you're interested.
CoffeeAndSwords · 2 points · Posted at 04:25:26 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes. Mark (I think) went so far as to preserve the Aramaic "abba" in his Gospel, which was written in Greek. It implied a close personal connection, the kind now implied by calling one's father "daddy" minus the creepiness.
basiltoe345 · 1 points · Posted at 05:48:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You mean like "dad?"
Or as how most of the rest of the Mediterranean and Middle East uses "baba" instead of the more formal "pater or ab/aba"
monsieurpommefrites · 5 points · Posted at 23:47:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Should we tell him about his circumcision?
SonofYeshua · 5 points · Posted at 20:32:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I know some people who do that. Not my thing.
the_other_other_matt · 11 points · Posted at 21:08:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeshua Hamashiac called God "Abba" (Mark 14:36), which is roughly translated as "daddy" or "papa".
drfsrich · 2 points · Posted at 21:56:11 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Mamma Mia!
SonofYeshua · 2 points · Posted at 21:15:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sure. But saying the actual words is kinda weird for me. I prefer the formal names to call Him. Not judging people that do, but that's just me.
JTip42 · 6 points · Posted at 21:49:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Our Daddy, who art in heaven...
BobSacramanto · 3 points · Posted at 22:11:08 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Big Poppa Pop, up in the sky...
Ichthus5 · 1 points · Posted at 22:18:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
"The fact that you call it Pop-Pop tells me that you're not ready..."
QuickSpore · 2 points · Posted at 04:52:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's pretty common in English, and pretty rare in other languages.
Interestingly English has adopted a far more formal liturgical vocabulary over the past few centuries. It's pretty common for European languages to have a formal and informal form of the word "you." In those languages it's almost universal to use the less formal form when referring to or addressing God. Likewise where a formal and informal form of a word exists, people will almost always use the less formal form when addressing God. The idea being that no one is as intimately familiar to us as God is. So we should use the most intimate, familiar, and informal language. In most languages calling God, "Daddy" would be preferred over "Father."
Also interestingly, English used to be this way. English used to have an informal form of "you", it was "thee/thou." That's why the Bible (King James Version at least) is filled with all those thee/thou/thy words referring to God. "Thy will be done?" That's the language you use for a close, dear, intimate relative or friend. No one would have said "Thy will be done" to King James. It would have been "Your will be done." One spoke to God as a familiar not as a Lord.
But please don't take this in any way as a criticism of your method of communicating with the Divine. You do what works best for you. I just thought it was an interesting point on how language changes.
SonofYeshua · 2 points · Posted at 05:03:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Thank you so much for that info! I love learning new things and that's a good one! I'll likely still stick with how I do it now, but maybe be inclined to test out the other way. :-)
Bakkster · 1 points · Posted at 00:18:39 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I always figured that was the reason to do it. It gets you out of the habit of thinking of Him exclusively as an all-powerful diety, and learn to think of him as a very close and personal father who loves you.
CoffeeAndSwords · 1 points · Posted at 04:28:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Protestants ftw
Bakkster · 1 points · Posted at 11:59:19 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Go go Martin Luther!
microcosmic5447 · 1 points · Posted at 21:56:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I could be mistaken, but I heard once that it's more like "daddy-sir", owing to some suffix on the abba. Which xhanges the character of the whole intimacy argument a bit, and also sounds a little creepy.
CoffeeAndSwords · 1 points · Posted at 04:28:12 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think it's useful to remember that all the "daddy" stuff didn't have the same connotation in first century Palestine
Tuxedomex · 1 points · Posted at 22:01:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh, here it is. I just asked that. Thanks.
OpenWaterRescue · 3 points · Posted at 22:00:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
He hasn't acknowledged paternity yet. MauryPovich.gif
illveal · 2 points · Posted at 21:35:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
ah yes.. Hamsandwhich
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 21:44:09 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sounds like an anime series
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 22:11:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sounds more like a radical Jewish guru. Oh wait...
danielm8 · 1 points · Posted at 21:44:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Well, since christ refers to his crucifixion, it should be Yeshua hatzaluv
Edit: No it doesn't I dun goofed
SganarelleBard · 1 points · Posted at 21:46:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus H. Christ?
Sw3Et · 1 points · Posted at 21:49:25 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeshua Goldstein.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 21:52:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
How about Yahushua ha'Mashiach? Is Yeshua really more correct than Yahushua if Zechariah 6:11-13 is Messianic Prophecy?
HeywardH · 1 points · Posted at 05:36:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I haven't really studied it. That may be correct though.
GB863M8 · 1 points · Posted at 22:04:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
how about Max Power? much cooler.
rhott · 1 points · Posted at 22:05:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hamsandwich? I thought pork was unclean?
star_boy2005 · 1 points · Posted at 22:06:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Gesundheit
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:25:35 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sounds slightly japanese
Agent_X10 · 1 points · Posted at 22:26:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sounds like someone choking.
mugdays · 1 points · Posted at 22:47:11 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's what Jewish Christians call him.
eljazira · 1 points · Posted at 23:41:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
elislider · 1 points · Posted at 00:12:31 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes I'd like a ham sandwich, thank you
Zoklett · 1 points · Posted at 00:19:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I worked with a guy whose name was that and he actually didn't know it means Jesus Christ son of God, which if I recall is what you t means
docsnavely · 1 points · Posted at 01:09:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
gesundheit
Every_Geth · 1 points · Posted at 01:21:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hamaschiach Hamaschiach
Hamaschiach Hamaschiach
Hamaschiach Hamaschiach
Ohhhh Hamaschiach, rock me Hamaschiach!
HeywardH · 2 points · Posted at 05:32:39 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Another fun fact: Amadeus means love of God.
BizzyM · 1 points · Posted at 01:45:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes, uh a ham sammich.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 02:35:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
is that a messianic?
metnem · 1 points · Posted at 05:24:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Only Jew would says moshiach. Source:I Jew too
Glide08 · 1 points · Posted at 07:07:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Actually we use Yeshu Hatzaloov.
HeywardH · 1 points · Posted at 01:01:27 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Unfamiliar. What does that mean and who uses it?
Glide08 · 1 points · Posted at 06:59:11 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Means "Jesus the Crossed" and is rarely used.
Dickchat · 1 points · Posted at 21:45:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sounds Jewy
Kellosian · 1 points · Posted at 21:48:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Too Jewish, no one would go for it.
HeywardH · 1 points · Posted at 05:37:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sadly true.
komandantmirko · 47 points · Posted at 21:32:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
well his full name would be joshua harold christ.
"our father who art in heaven Harold be thy name"
RidingYourEverything · 2 points · Posted at 05:33:36 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
All those years, I was saying, "Our father, who aren't in heaven..." And now you just made me realize I was probably committing blasphemy.
[deleted] · 23 points · Posted at 18:18:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Josh Joeson.
Y1ff · -4 points · Posted at 18:31:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's dumb.
hobbsarelie83 · 37 points · Posted at 19:49:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
But his brother Craig Christ....that guy is crazy!
NintendoGeneration · 22 points · Posted at 20:55:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Where will you be when the Craig Machine comes partyin' through?
FearMeIAmRoot · 6 points · Posted at 21:50:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Then there's Jerry, the brother of Christ.
hobbsarelie83 · 2 points · Posted at 21:52:54 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
ha almost forgot about this
FearMeIAmRoot · 2 points · Posted at 21:54:57 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
"He's a carpenter, I'm a plumber, you do the math."
[deleted] · 6 points · Posted at 21:45:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
jingerninja · 1 points · Posted at 22:14:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
This sounds like something Corky and the Juice Pigs would do...
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:18:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
jingerninja · 1 points · Posted at 23:33:15 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Does this sound like it could be the Arrogant Worms? That'll be the most well known Corky and the Juice Pigs song.
minnick27 · 1 points · Posted at 01:06:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
They are both Canadian comedy bands. Fun fact about Corky and the Juice Pigs, at several shows they appeared with pre-fame Barenaked Ladies
vector_ejector · 4 points · Posted at 21:48:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Craaaaaaig!
[deleted] · 5 points · Posted at 00:19:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
hobbsarelie83 · 1 points · Posted at 00:20:30 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think you missed a word or two there
dodgeedoo · 2 points · Posted at 21:51:57 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Better than Chad Christ. Dude's a dick.
GameOfThrowsnz · 2 points · Posted at 21:54:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
"The New Testament describes James, Joseph (Joses), Judas (Jude) and Simon as brothers of Jesus (Greek: ἀδελφοὶ, translit. adelphoi, lit. 'brothers'). Also mentioned, but not named, are sisters of Jesus. Some scholars argue that these brothers, especially James, held positions of special honor in the early Christian church."
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:25:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFwvs8eYt6E
hobbsarelie83 · 1 points · Posted at 23:57:08 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
http://i.imgur.com/MmSF4lj.jpg
[deleted] · 106 points · Posted at 20:34:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sup dudes? Intro time: I'm your savior Josh Christ. Follow me and you'll be totally righteous! Because real talk? You guys are bein pretty lame right now. There's like... Poor people and greedy rich dudes and stuff. Pretty bad vibes overall to be honest.
But enough with this negativity, im here to flip the script and take you all to a killer time up with my dad in heaven!
InukChinook · 11 points · Posted at 21:59:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
projector and screen appear out of nowhere with a near-televangelical .ppt already loaded
Manor_McHonda · 2 points · Posted at 23:07:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And that when Josh said to Pete. "Just nipping down the temple bruv."
00spool · 1 points · Posted at 00:30:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
r/JoshSaves
pm_me_ur_cat_snake · 1 points · Posted at 02:11:26 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Be sure to like and subscribe for daily updates!
k3vin187 · 1 points · Posted at 02:56:30 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Don't forget to like and subscribe if you wanna see cool miracles and stuff
heckruler · 5 points · Posted at 21:45:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah.... "Christ" is likewise a greek word. Or close to one. It means something by the way. It's literally "The annointed one". A title like "duke" or "esquire". Like "Joshua", a better transliteration would be "messiah".
So there was never really a "Jesus Christ". But there was probably some guy called Joshua, the messiah, but in Hebrew.
heckruler · 1 points · Posted at 22:38:29 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
oh. Right, and in case that bit throws anyone for a loop, "messiah" means "saviour". So if you were going to make a translation of the bible in plain language that didn't try and use a bunch of archaic words kids didn't understand, it'd be "Joshua, that dude who's gonna save your ass".
ianme · 3 points · Posted at 21:56:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Joshua Christ it's Jason Bourne!
xanatos451 · 3 points · Posted at 22:26:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Joshua Christ, it's Jason Bourne!
shawndamanyay · 4 points · Posted at 20:33:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's actually not right. In Aramayic his name was closer to "yeshua".
SuperSmith_ · 12 points · Posted at 21:12:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Which straight to English is Joshua.
kwertyuiop · 1 points · Posted at 21:49:11 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I mean, anybody can be named Joshua now but Jesus is weird. If everyone called him Joshua from the get-go, it'd probably sound really cool by comparison to the dozen Jesus' you know.
slabby · 1 points · Posted at 21:50:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Maybe just Josh Chris for short. He could open up a really awesome line of surfer steakhouses.
hidestoomuch · 1 points · Posted at 22:03:22 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Why Christ? Where do we get Christ from? I'm in the middle of reading the Bible and haven't come across that word....
Double-decker_trams · 1 points · Posted at 22:04:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's because that's the one you're used to.
"Jesus Christ" doesn't sound as cool as "Jeesus Kristus" in my eyes. Because that's the name in my language.
I'm not religious, but "Jeesus Kristus" still sounds pretty cool I think.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:09:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Praise Josh!
biggreencat · 1 points · Posted at 22:09:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Look up Samuel in Hebrew
bowlin_forsalad · 2 points · Posted at 01:08:55 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Shmuel, then there's the nickname shmully, then there's my favorite, the Yiddish diminutive for it, shmulik
Don't forget the original Hebrew name for Solomon, Schlomo. Similar deal, nicknames include Schlomi, or in Yiddish pronunciation, Schloymi
InZomnia365 · 1 points · Posted at 22:10:28 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus Christ would sound just as weird if it was the other way around. It sounds "right" to us because its familiar.
bowlin_forsalad · 1 points · Posted at 01:09:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Accept into your heart our Lord and savior, Christ Josh!
WaitWhatting · 1 points · Posted at 22:12:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
/r/JesusChristReddit
WaitWhatting · 1 points · Posted at 22:12:24 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus Lapdancing Christ has a better ring to it
mw1994 · 1 points · Posted at 22:12:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I can't imagine calling Christ, josh....something's wrong about that.
Yoseratu · 1 points · Posted at 22:16:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yehoshua of Nazareth sounds cool
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:17:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Josh the anointed.
Josh, holy king of the Jews.
(Christ being a title denoting that he is the anointed ruler-priest of the line of Jewish ruler-priests descended from King David, who could be called David Christ or David the Messiah, since he held the same title... )
bowlin_forsalad · 2 points · Posted at 01:13:25 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Moshiah ben David, named as such because as the legend goes the messiah will be a direct descendant of King david, which as each next millenium passes and more genocides happen tends to get tricky to follow especially since we have no idea who Moshiah is or will be. How convenient
Scuzzboots · 1 points · Posted at 22:25:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm biased but I feel like my pickup lines at the bar would be much improved if I could start by saying "Hi there, my name is Joshua Christ. Can I but you a drink?"
tomdooley69 · 1 points · Posted at 22:31:31 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I thought it was Craig Christ?
APredictableUsername · 1 points · Posted at 22:33:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sounds like a shitty sitcom about his half-brother
gamerholic · 1 points · Posted at 22:35:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Doesn't sound as Mexican either.
bn_fc · 1 points · Posted at 22:56:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not even a proper curse
Joshua Fucking Christ
Yep I'm not feeling it
ThomDowting · 1 points · Posted at 23:03:57 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Any relation to Charlie?
askyourmom469 · 1 points · Posted at 23:07:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm going to start saying "Joshua H. Christ" whenever I swear
calculatedperversity · 1 points · Posted at 23:27:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
well, I've seen him called Yeshua ben Yosef, which is basically "Joshua Josephson"
Not-that-berto · 1 points · Posted at 23:35:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Josh Christ if your church isn't orthodox.
Psyladine · 1 points · Posted at 23:42:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Christ = christos = anointed.
Joshua the Anointed, sound more biblical yet?
Chewblacka · 1 points · Posted at 00:20:16 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Bullshit. That sounds cool as hell. Long haired, hippy dude, chill to everyone totally a Josh!
gurg2k1 · 1 points · Posted at 00:25:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It sounds like Jesus' snotty younger brother who couldn't fill his older brother's sandals.
MahatmaBuddah · 1 points · Posted at 00:51:18 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Its Josh Christ, apparently. See above.
hjwoolwine · 1 points · Posted at 01:23:48 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Coming this spring, Joshua Christ
Its_Not_JackieChan · 1 points · Posted at 01:26:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh. My. Josh... Oh-em-jay you guys. Like, seriously.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 03:19:18 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I wonder if Christianity stops becoming a dominant religion, would we still just keep using Jesus Christ as a swear for the rest of human history just because it sounds so natural?
raphier · 1 points · Posted at 04:11:19 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yehoshua Hakadoch. Eh... Should've used a futuristic name, he was son of god after all..
Choopytrags · 1 points · Posted at 04:18:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Christ means Anointed One, so Joshua The Anointed ONe
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 04:29:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Joshua Fucking Christ... yea, you're right
MLein97 · 1 points · Posted at 04:55:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Joshua, the son of God
Dr_McKay · 1 points · Posted at 12:47:44 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Josh Damnit!
Josh_Master · 1 points · Posted at 15:55:24 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sounds cool to me.
TheInternetShill · 0 points · Posted at 20:02:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Just call me JC"
AlchemicalEnthusiast · 0 points · Posted at 20:38:35 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sexy.
DoctorFrankz · 0 points · Posted at 21:52:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Maybe that's because we're only used to Jesus Christ, if he was actually named Floopy Christ we probably would have liked that more than Poopy or Jesus or Joshua.
Probe_Droid · 399 points · Posted at 20:50:03 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
His full name being Joshua Bar(son of) Joseph, we can conclude that Jesus was indeed the first Jojo.
DrasticKnight · 129 points · Posted at 03:05:12 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
And his stand's name was [ T H R E E D A Y S G R A C E ]
Captain_mathmatics · 63 points · Posted at 16:06:13 on January 12, 2017 · (Permalink)
[ T I C K E T T O R I D E]
Maliben · 21 points · Posted at 02:41:21 on March 26, 2017 · (Permalink)
[ H E A V E N ' S D O O R ]
Singdancetypethings · 29 points · Posted at 09:00:35 on January 10, 2017 · (Permalink)
Sixteen episodes of exposition later and we still have no idea what the heaven it does.
BazingaTiger · 18 points · Posted at 16:05:27 on January 19, 2017 · (Permalink)
Nine Inch Nails.
awfulworldkid · 91 points · Posted at 22:02:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
/r/unexpectedjojo
lemonade_eyescream · 31 points · Posted at 06:58:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
"You were expecting Joshua, but it was me, Dio!"
brothertaddeus · 23 points · Posted at 23:03:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh hey, that's a real sub!
Chilly9613 · 44 points · Posted at 22:35:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, stands does appear because of him.
HLCRHLCR · 18 points · Posted at 03:06:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Spoilers bro.
derpface360 · 22 points · Posted at 22:11:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You thought it was Jojo, but it was me: Satan.
StruckingFuggle · 52 points · Posted at 21:54:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
ORAFATHER ORAFATHER ORAFATHER
Hobbes4247791 · 23 points · Posted at 22:19:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
OH MY MEEEE!
QuarkMawp · 16 points · Posted at 22:15:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, he was a Stand User so it makes sense.
iccirrus · 22 points · Posted at 22:08:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So would Judas be the first incarnation of Dio then?
vtheawesome · 28 points · Posted at 00:49:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Pretty sure that would be Lucifer, since he is a charismatic bloodthirsty immortal monster
QuigTech · 11 points · Posted at 04:51:53 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Bingo bango
Cajbaj · 3 points · Posted at 15:40:45 on March 20, 2017 · (Permalink)
Oh my glob was that a Root Beer Guy? Jojo and AT in one thread I'm done
knight0748 · 13 points · Posted at 22:41:35 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nah, Dio means God in italian. If anyone's unkillable, it would be Jesus the vampire.
drak0bsidian · 8 points · Posted at 00:57:26 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
With parents named 'Joe' and 'Mary' we were just one hyphen away from having "Jim-Bob, the Son of God."
Oy, I miss Robin Williams.
SpackaJack69 · 6 points · Posted at 14:29:35 on March 10, 2017 · (Permalink)*
PREPARE YOURSELF FOR MY STAND 「GARDEN OF EDEN」
TheGhosTz · 8 points · Posted at 22:29:03 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Son of in Hebrew is Ben (בן) , not bar.
Morbidmort · 18 points · Posted at 22:46:31 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
But He spoke Aramaic, which does use bar.
TheGhosTz · 3 points · Posted at 05:07:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh my bad, don't know why I automatically assumed it was Hebrew :P
feizhai · 4 points · Posted at 06:30:49 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
hahahaha last place i was expecting an anime reference but sugoii desu yo
CanotSpel · 2 points · Posted at 22:35:03 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Buddy of mine is Josh, his father is Joe, and they are part of the same tribe as Jesus was, making him Yehoshua ben Yosef ha Levi (Josh son of Joseph, the Levite).
OneAndOnlyStar · 2 points · Posted at 18:21:07 on March 5, 2017 · (Permalink)
Your friend is Jesus
outofnowherewoof · 2 points · Posted at 23:42:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Ben" means son
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 01:08:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So who was the first "KC" then?
[deleted] · 615 points · Posted at 17:17:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's pronounced Hey! Zeus!
[deleted] · 177 points · Posted at 19:34:25 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
mastachaos · 149 points · Posted at 19:44:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Did you say 'Abe Lincoln'?
PM_ME_KITTENS_PLEASE · 85 points · Posted at 20:07:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nah, man, I said "HEY BLINKEN"
h0twired · 70 points · Posted at 20:57:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
No. It's "an eehive"
ian_stein · 34 points · Posted at 21:41:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
3 meta 3 fast
screen317 · 2 points · Posted at 21:45:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wasn't actually that fast
StopReadingMyUser · 3 points · Posted at 23:24:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
IT'S COMING AT US AT A TURTLE PACE!!!
thebigbadben · 1 points · Posted at 22:41:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
3 furious
CronosDage · 3 points · Posted at 22:19:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
ahh, because "an eehive" sounds like "a kneehive" so that's how he misinterpreted it; I see
get_the_reference_ · 2 points · Posted at 01:05:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Still don't get it.
pipsdontsqueak · 3 points · Posted at 21:44:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hold the reigns, man!
Alto_Rega · 5 points · Posted at 20:17:25 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You don't fool me. You're not /u/hasapoint!
Philip_Marlowe · 9 points · Posted at 20:37:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
/u/hasapoint went out for a pack of smokes and never came back :(
HasaPint · 12 points · Posted at 21:13:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Will I do in a pinch?
Philip_Marlowe · 5 points · Posted at 21:16:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
/u/hasapint right now.
[deleted] · 7 points · Posted at 21:25:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jeez, I leave for five minutes and you all go to pieces. What are you, golden retrievers?
NoWorriesEsquire · 3 points · Posted at 20:56:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You have a point sir.
[deleted] · 35 points · Posted at 19:52:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
A Jew, here?
valeyard89 · 39 points · Posted at 20:30:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
No no, not a Jew. Ahchoo.
almondchampagne · 25 points · Posted at 21:07:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Bless you
HabeLinkin · 3 points · Posted at 23:31:12 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You rang?
DoctorFrankz · 1 points · Posted at 21:49:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hey do ken!
balrogwarrior · 2 points · Posted at 23:33:55 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ken, Ken Bo Ben, Bananarama Fo Fen, Fe Fi Mo Men, Ken!
soomuchcoffee · 42 points · Posted at 20:14:08 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
MY NAME IS ZEUS DO I LOOK HISPANIC TO YOU?
[deleted] · 15 points · Posted at 21:35:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
*Puerto Rican
ncnotebook · 1 points · Posted at 22:18:31 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes.
balrogwarrior · 1 points · Posted at 23:34:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Did you just assume my nationality?
qovneob · 27 points · Posted at 20:26:57 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Somewhat relevant anecdote:
A girl I know, whos not the brightest, got a chihuahua and wanted to name it "Haysoos" but didnt know the 'mexican' spelling, so now the dog is named "Hey Jesus"
Wedge09 · 50 points · Posted at 20:03:22 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah, Zeus! As in, father of Apollo? Mt. Olympus? Don’t fuck with me, or I’ll shove a lightning bolt up your ass? Zeus! You got a problem with that?
JD2212 · 6 points · Posted at 21:59:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You forgot to take the safety catch off...
UtahStateAgnostics · 3 points · Posted at 23:28:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
eats egg
getSmoke · 1 points · Posted at 22:01:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Too many question marks
Wedge09 · 2 points · Posted at 22:15:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Been a long time since I have seen it. I always remember his facial expression as he was asking him if he knows about Apollo or Mt. Olympus. I could be wrong.
getSmoke · 1 points · Posted at 22:38:23 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hold on gonna YouTube it
getSmoke · 1 points · Posted at 22:40:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yep no question marks. It's all straight anger there. Ilovethatmovie
Wedge09 · 2 points · Posted at 22:49:31 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Lol right on. Leaving it so people know what we are talking about.
getSmoke · 2 points · Posted at 23:15:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Cheers!
shawndamanyay · 7 points · Posted at 20:32:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
More like "Ye-Shu-Ah"
hipratham · 1 points · Posted at 20:49:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
translated in Indian languages as 'Yeshu Khrist'.!
-Tom- · 4 points · Posted at 19:33:23 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
God of thunder, shove a lightning bolt up your ass.
phantasic79 · 2 points · Posted at 21:15:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I always wondered this. Do they call Jesus Heyzoos in Spanish speaking countries?
MerlinTheGerman · 3 points · Posted at 21:35:04 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes, my fiancé is Mexican and they pronounce it that way at church.
Love the phoenetical spelling BTW.
phantasic79 · 1 points · Posted at 22:05:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Haha...thank you. My brother recently moveed to La Jolla in southern California. I tried to google map his place and there is no "La Hoya" on the map. To this day I insist on calling it "Lajolla." Now people who have never heard of this city will not be able to map it.
Icsto · 1 points · Posted at 21:34:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes
BobSacramanto · 1 points · Posted at 22:13:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I believe it is pronounced as "Heyzeus Cristos" in Spanish.
Every_Geth · 2 points · Posted at 01:26:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
GET OUT OF MY DREAMS, GET INTO MY CAR
vamplosion · 2 points · Posted at 02:03:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Take a sad song and make it better
AdvicePerson · 4 points · Posted at 20:33:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And Jupiter is "Zeus the Father".
Bears_Bearing_Arms · 1 points · Posted at 00:24:00 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jupiter is just the Romanization of Zeus.
pandaSmore · 1 points · Posted at 00:46:49 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wait so the Greeks and the Romans worshiped the same gods?
Bears_Bearing_Arms · 1 points · Posted at 01:20:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yup.
Hades is Pluto, Ares is Mars, Aphrodite is Venus. There is some slight variation, but it's largely the same Pantheon and mythology.
Here's a list
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 21:45:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Naaaaaah, nah nah, nah nah nah na! Nah nah nah na! Hey, Zeus!
MahatmaBuddah · 1 points · Posted at 01:00:30 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Goodbye!
iheartcrack666 · 1 points · Posted at 21:53:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Heil Hercules, son of Zeus!
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 22:03:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jeremiah 23:26-27.
You might actually be onto something.
Ephe--- , Tar---, Pega---, etc.?
WaitWhatting · 1 points · Posted at 22:11:23 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I constantly see only the full blown name displayed on reddit: Jesus Lapdancing Christ
An0therB · 1 points · Posted at 23:54:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hey, Zeus. Don't make it bad.
JesusChristo420 · 1 points · Posted at 23:59:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
sí
superinspector · 1 points · Posted at 02:42:14 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Get off of my cloud!
PhoenixKA · 1 points · Posted at 05:10:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
My paladin in WoW is named Haizeus.
woutomatic · 1 points · Posted at 21:32:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
But it's spelled "Raymond Luxury-Ya-ch-t.
Donald_Keyman · 316 points · Posted at 20:07:43 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Pff next you'll probably try telling me he wasn't a white American.
Maverick593 · 69 points · Posted at 23:15:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus looks like whatever culture is depicting him. Korean Jesus is best Jesus.
one-punch-knockout · 3 points · Posted at 02:53:57 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Korean Barbecue is best Barbecue.
jdroa · 1 points · Posted at 18:12:04 on December 12, 2016 · (Permalink)
Korean BBQ is Best Jesus
frilink · 4 points · Posted at 01:35:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Best Korean Jesus is best Jesus.
ftfy
gray_rain · 6 points · Posted at 04:40:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You are now simultaneously a mod of and banned from /r/pyongyang.
PutYaGunsOn · 5 points · Posted at 00:35:25 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
But he ain't got time for yo problems. He's busy! With Korean shit!
Cornelius_Poindexter · 2 points · Posted at 23:31:01 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Black Jesus is best Jesus.
pbmm1 · 1 points · Posted at 03:29:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
My favourite Jesus is Daigo Umehara
Paladin_of_Trump · 1 points · Posted at 05:06:31 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Korean Jesua ain't got shit on Vietnamese Jesus. That motherfucker just drippin swagger.
Ruvic · 1 points · Posted at 17:04:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yea but brazil jeebus is bigger.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:25:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
But the actual, original Jesus, was probably of a sort of Arabian ethnicity.
spamshampoo · 4 points · Posted at 01:37:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
He's Jewish. They are their own race.
[deleted] · 4 points · Posted at 02:21:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Not really. They're a set of tribes who, of course, take on a lot of the race of the surrounding gentiles. Maybe the Jews were a distinct race back then, though.
LinksOrGTFO · 3 points · Posted at 02:14:48 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No they're not.
willyslittlewonka · 30 points · Posted at 21:40:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
lol I'm pretty sure a decent chunk of devout White American Christians would probably consider him an Arab terrorist had he been alive now. This is what most historians and scientists believe how Jesus looked like. Dude was born in the Levant region of the ME, not Scandinavia.
Kai_Daigoji · 97 points · Posted at 22:10:43 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Considering we have no descriptions of what he looked like, no it isn't. That's a picture of what a typical Semitic man in that time and place might have looked like, sure, but to say that 'most historians' think he looked like that is a drastic oversimplification.
[deleted] · 10 points · Posted at 22:34:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Benyed123 · 8 points · Posted at 22:45:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That guy looks more like the stereotypical Jesus.
white_android · 5 points · Posted at 23:08:04 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Middle eastern stereotypical Jesus though.
Benyed123 · 2 points · Posted at 23:17:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Reminds me a little bit of Jafar from Aladdin.
DonarArminSkyrari · 1 points · Posted at 23:56:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
....huh
willyslittlewonka · 43 points · Posted at 22:22:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think we can all establish that he didn't have white skin, blond hair and blue eyes.
This might come as a shock, but Jesus of Nazareth was a Semitic man. Of course it isn't exactly what he looks like, it's what we think he does based on what little evidence we know of his life.
OneBigBug · 11 points · Posted at 22:57:59 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
To be fair, it's rare to see a blonde Jesus. He's definitely depicted as paler than any person who lived in the middle east 2000 years ago would have been, but he's not like...drawn as being Aryan.
Kai_Daigoji · 2 points · Posted at 23:44:28 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Obviously not, since I said it's a possibility. But saying "this is what he looked like" just doesn't hold up.
valleyshrew · 1 points · Posted at 03:41:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
"White – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa" - the US census. Steve Job's parents were both Arab, wouldn't you consider him white? Here's a photo of the king of Jordan, wouldn't you say he has white skin? He's a descendant of Muhammad, not a European immigrant. The idea that Arabs aren't part of the white race is Euro-centric racism. If Jews are white then so are Arabs. Here's a Jewish soldier being attacked by Arabs, tell me which person here is not white?
Also, Jesus of Nazareth is not a historical figure. His father was not human, so we can't say what colour his skin was. Maybe his race changed every time he woke up, since man was supposed to be made in God's image. He may have been based on a real person but artists are not drawing a human Jesus, they are drawing the son of God. It was normal for painters centuries ago to use models of their own race for Jesus, it wasn't because they were racial supremacists but because it was practical. 16th century Asian paintings depict European missionaries with Asian features.
chatrugby · 1 points · Posted at 15:21:54 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
He was also a devout Jew.
RedRager · 1 points · Posted at 23:17:59 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Semitic refers to a linguistic term. It's like referring to a Honduran as Spanish just because they speak Spanish. Considering Hebrew is closer to Greek than Persian, I wouldn't necessarily call Jesus 'Semetic.'
[deleted] · 8 points · Posted at 23:49:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
What? Greek and Persian are closer to each other than either is to Hebrew. Indo-European vs. Semitic
vtheawesome · 2 points · Posted at 00:42:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus was literally semitic though. He was descended from a long line of Jews.
RedRager · 1 points · Posted at 02:08:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You don't need to be Jewish to be Semitic. Semitism also refers to Shem (as in the three sons of Noah, Ham, Shem, and Japheth) Ham went on into Africa, Shem went east into Asia, and Japheth went West according to the story. Hebrews (Jews) didn't become a thing decreed by Yahweh until Abraham, with his son, Jacob, which is much further down the bloodline from Noah, biblically.
vtheawesome · 2 points · Posted at 02:24:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
But he is. He was descended from King David, who was literally the king of the Jews. He obviously wasn't religiously Jewish, but ethnically he was.
willyslittlewonka · -3 points · Posted at 00:22:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
lmao you guys really want Jesus to be white. Semitic languages are a branch of Afroasiatic languages in Western Asia and North Africa.
Hebrew in no way is related to Greek. Greek belongs to a group of languages called the Hellenic languages while Persian belongs to the Indo-Iranian family, both of which belong to the overarching Indo-European languages.
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 00:52:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
...Nobody was talking about race here, why do you want to inject it into this conversation?
Jesus was Semitic though.
donttaxmyfatstacks · 0 points · Posted at 00:59:14 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This might come as a double shock, but Jesus almost certainly never existed as a physical being. The fact that his life entirely prefigures the conquest of Judea by the Roman Emperor Titus should be a clue. He was a mythic figure, like Noah or Moses. Look up the work of Joseph Atwill in this regard.
xAsianZombie · 2 points · Posted at 22:34:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
doesnt the bible say his skin was the color of burnt brass?
[deleted] · 7 points · Posted at 22:55:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well yes but in the same breath it also says his hair and head were white so I'd take it with a grain of salt. Thing is this description was from when he appeared to someone in a vision ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
Logic says he was semitic looking as hell of course.
Kai_Daigoji · 1 points · Posted at 23:43:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Where?
discobob1 · -1 points · Posted at 22:20:55 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
B-b-b-but SCIENCE!
raspberry_man · 6 points · Posted at 22:37:01 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
pretty sure they made this guy with NBA 2K
PoopyDoopie · 22 points · Posted at 22:15:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not all Middle Eastern people are considered terrorists. I remember one Middle Eastern guy who was praised by Western media for his peace works. I found the article right here: https://i.imgur.com/CRaBPOx.jpg
regendo · 7 points · Posted at 22:40:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That was over 20 years ago though. Doesn't really say anything about how people would view him today.
Gaia_Knight2600 · 3 points · Posted at 23:41:12 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
funny to think about tho, maybe he would still be viewed as a hero today who fought communism if not for 9/11.
Fredulus · 6 points · Posted at 00:41:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Al Qaeda carried out quite a few attacks in the 90's and bombed the USS Cole while it was refueling in Yemen in 2000. 9/11 was more of a culmination than a beginning
ncnotebook · 1 points · Posted at 22:21:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Is that Jesus?
alpaca7 · 13 points · Posted at 21:49:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You generalizing devout white Americans isn't any better that devout white Americans generalizing Arabs...
willyslittlewonka · -7 points · Posted at 22:07:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, I wasn't talking about all White Christians. The devout crowd was more in reference to Evangelicals. Even so, you'd be kidding yourself if you didn't think a sizable minority of Christians here wouldn't get triggered if I decided to call Jesus a brown Middle Eastern man (especially those in the Midwest or Deep South).
alpaca7 · 10 points · Posted at 22:26:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I know, you said a decent chunk...
I get those people exist, and if someone makes those claims I'd love to see them called out, but you shouldn't make assumptions. My point is that your assumptions are just as harmful.
Reddit_beard · -2 points · Posted at 03:08:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What?! That's just bullshit. Stop trying to make white christian americans seem like the victims here.
alpaca7 · 1 points · Posted at 03:41:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm not, just saying nothing good comes from hateful generalizations
mostagha · 1 points · Posted at 14:24:12 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Pretty sure they wouldn't. They might laugh if you drew a parallel between that and current profiling of Middle Easterners in the US, but anyone with even a passable knowledge of Christianity knows where the Holy Land is.
superdisk · 2 points · Posted at 00:58:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
https://i.sli.mg/ulpTOw.jpg
Bears_On_Stilts · 1 points · Posted at 22:20:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Looks like Topol.
toneboat · 1 points · Posted at 23:01:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
kind of an uggo. With crazy eyes.
ReverendDexter · 1 points · Posted at 23:27:03 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wasn't Jesus an albino?
psycholepzy · 1 points · Posted at 00:18:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's like Rufus Sewell and Vinnie Jones had a kid in a tanning bed.
Dylans_Curiosity · 1 points · Posted at 00:28:47 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Now there's a dude that looks like he could take a flaying.
s1wg4u · 1 points · Posted at 01:46:25 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
deleted What is this?
iheartcrack666 · 1 points · Posted at 21:49:56 on December 11, 2016 · (Permalink)
Josh Christ looks like Mario.
Vektor0 · -1 points · Posted at 22:48:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Considering most White American Christians consider themselves allies of Israel, and Israelis are just as Arab as any other Arabian nation, I wholly doubt that.
willyslittlewonka · 3 points · Posted at 23:10:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Arab" is an ethnic group. Israel is comprised of European Ashkenazi/Sephardi Jews, Middle Eastern Mizradi Jews and African (mostly Ethiopian) Jews. A minority of Arabs may be Jewish or Christian but not all Israelis (which is a nationality btw) are Arab.
LittleCrumb · 2 points · Posted at 23:31:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
*Mizrahi, but otherwise, right on about the Jewish ethnic groups in Israel. I think about a quarter of Israel's population is Arab.
monsieurpommefrites · 0 points · Posted at 23:59:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Brown, short bearded man? ☑️
Middle Eastern?☑️
Leader of zealous acolytes?☑️
Gathers them in public rallies where he preaches his rhetoric?☑️
Adored by a subjugated populace under military control?☑️
Threatens and conspires against local spiritual leaders☑️
Spreads and encourages propaganda vs the interim government? ☑️
Actively disrupts local economy and commerce?☑️
Disturbs the local peace and is a catalyst for an insurgency?☑️
Kain_niaK · 2 points · Posted at 22:55:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I even heard somebody claim that the King James Bible was not written by Jesus his brother James and that Jesus did not even speak English. Can you believe that? Pfff, the stuff you read on the internet.
balrogwarrior · 1 points · Posted at 23:35:14 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sorry...
thrawaway6969420 · 78 points · Posted at 19:48:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Josh died for us
iheartcrack666 · 30 points · Posted at 21:55:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Josh loves us
iamnotchad · 13 points · Posted at 22:37:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes I do
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 00:33:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So, Josh, I take it you get confused with Chad often?
joshmanders · 2 points · Posted at 01:05:55 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Stupid chaddy Josh.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:24:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nah, I'm not a dick.
iamonlyoneman · 1 points · Posted at 02:25:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nobody asked you, Chad!
missionbeach · 3 points · Posted at 22:24:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Josh is my copilot.
joshthewumba · 1 points · Posted at 00:55:11 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
My name is Josh
Can confirm, I love you all
tubbymeatball · 3 points · Posted at 22:57:25 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You're welcome
FOUNDmanymarbles · 1 points · Posted at 00:04:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wow really adds an element to that joke from weeeds that I never got until just now...
underthegod · 28 points · Posted at 17:36:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Where's the fish come in?
AirborneRodent · 116 points · Posted at 19:12:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The fish is a reference to multiple things. Most of his prominently-named apostles in the Gospels were fishermen, and when Jesus asked them to join him, he said "You are fishermen, but I will make you fishers of men." A meal of fish also features prominently in a number of mealtime scenes in various Gospels.
More than that, the Greek word ἰχθύς (ichthys, "fish") is a backronym:
Ἰησοῦς "Jesus"
Χριστός "Christ"
Θεοῦ "God's"
Υἱός "Son"
Σωτήρ "Savior"
"Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior"
MagisterTJL · 35 points · Posted at 22:55:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Also, during the time of Roman persecution, Christians would use it as a secret code. When you met someone, you'd draw half a fish in the ground. If the other person finished the drawing, you'd know they were another Christian.
TDWfan · 8 points · Posted at 23:23:37 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That sounds like such a foreign culture. Having to meet in secret and having a universal password.
Of course, Christianity spread like wildfire in that first century.
the_horrible_reality · 1 points · Posted at 09:04:12 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Then when the evil persecution ended, they could finally murder all non-believers and commit unspeakable horrors while claiming to themselves be the victim.
mostagha · 6 points · Posted at 14:25:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
http://i.imgur.com/OItnWGv.jpg
TDWfan · 3 points · Posted at 15:34:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think I cut myself on that edge.
slayman2001 · 1 points · Posted at 15:27:46 on December 13, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Yeah that what they taught in Sunday School, but I never found any historical truth to it. If anyone wants some scholarship ... https://www.academia.edu/15685631/Revisiting_the_Ichthys_A_Suggestion_Concerning_the_Origins_of_Christological_Fish_Symbolism
Ichthus5 · 5 points · Posted at 22:24:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hey, that looks neat. Might have to update my username.
psycholepzy · 1 points · Posted at 00:20:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
TIL a new word.
donttaxmyfatstacks · 1 points · Posted at 01:04:33 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
But mostly it's a reference to the astrological sign Pisces, which housed the sun during the epoch of Jesus' supposed existence. Before that it was the Taurus, the bull, hence all those winged bulls, apis bulls etc of the Egyptian, Minoan and Mesopotamian civilizations. The next one is Aquarius, hence all the New Age 'age of Aquarius' stuff.
Dino_Geek · 1 points · Posted at 03:20:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You kinda got downvoted but this is a new one on me. Being a kid in the 60s-70s it's most interesting (and that song now runs through my head - thanks a bunch). Sources / any other documentation?
Reactionaryhistorian · 1 points · Posted at 11:30:15 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That sounds like rather complete nonsense. Could you give a source.
thickface · 1 points · Posted at 02:30:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Ah. So Jesus was a rapper. This is reminiscent of Jay-HOVA's prophetic proclamation, "I'm not a businessman, I'm a business, man."
workingtimeaccount · -1 points · Posted at 19:34:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So what did they call fish before the new testament?
AirborneRodent · 24 points · Posted at 19:43:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's why I said "backronym". I'm not saying they invented the word, they just picked it because they could make a convenient acronym/acrostic out of it.
AT-ST · 1 points · Posted at 20:31:37 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Isn't that how a lot of acronyms are made?
pgm123 · 11 points · Posted at 20:58:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Some acronyms come first and words are formed from them. For example, NATO was called the North Atlantic Treaty Organization before they created the acronym NATO. Scuba also was created from the description and wasn't a word previously.
On the other hand, the Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act (PATRIOT Act) was created by trying to find words to fit for Patriot. It's a backronym. Another example was when NASA renamed its ISS treadmill to Combined Operational Load-Bearing External Resistance Treadmill (C.O.L.B.E.R.T.). NASA is still a regular acronym, though.
psycholepzy · 4 points · Posted at 00:22:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
so, a backronym is basically a reversed engineered acronym. Instead of putting the initialism together and speaking it, come up with a word, and then make each letter fit the intent of the the initialism.
pgm123 · 1 points · Posted at 02:49:18 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes
AT-ST · 2 points · Posted at 21:43:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I see what you are saying now. I was confused by your initial comment.
valeyard89 · 14 points · Posted at 20:32:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
ghoti
tomatoaway · 1 points · Posted at 22:19:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I always tell myself to remember this gem, and I forget it each time and have to type "fish sounds like" uselessly into google
psycholepzy · 1 points · Posted at 00:22:39 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Go one further, and show that the whole alphabet is silent.
choochoomarktwain · 1 points · Posted at 20:34:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Dahg or Dahgeem
pgm123 · 1 points · Posted at 20:59:24 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
ἰχθύς
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 21:46:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
fish.
aykontakt · -17 points · Posted at 19:57:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So that's why the whole idea of Jesus seemed fishy.
Impregnating his mother so he can be born. Him being his own dad. He, immortal god, sacrificing his life to save us from himself. Wink.
coffeemugneedswashed · -18 points · Posted at 20:05:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Think about the situation from poor Mary's point of view.
She marries a carpenter, good solid working-class man, but he turns out to be a religious nutjob. Keeps prattling on and on about the sanctity of her virginity. Meanwhile she is 16 years old and her hormones are pumping and there's a steady stream of burly carpenters trooping through the house at all hours. Of course she cheated on him.
When she began showing, Joseph's cognitive dissonance and/or shame was so great, he had to retreat into the tale of divine conception, and remain there for the rest of his days.
ciridan · 7 points · Posted at 18:46:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I was told that it was how Christians would identify themselves to one another when persecution was high early on. One person would draw half of the fish and if someone was a Christian they would finish it.
pfp-disciple · 3 points · Posted at 19:03:24 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Plus, the letters ICTHUS (fish) served as an acrostic. At least, that's what I remember. No time to do proper research.
awfulworldkid · 1 points · Posted at 22:00:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The explanation from another post
Last half talks about the backronym thing
pfp-disciple · 1 points · Posted at 22:30:14 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Thanks.
Kain_niaK · 1 points · Posted at 22:58:03 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It was like secret handshake so one christian could identify another christian without the authorities finding out. There have been many places and many times where becoming christian could get you killed. So if you wanted to know if the person you where talking to was also a christian you would draw half a circle in the sand with your sandal. If the other person would draw the other half of the circle, completing the fish symbol shape ... then you would know he was a christian. /r/AirborneRodent explained the rest!
tjmaddog2 · 1 points · Posted at 23:17:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
During the time when Romans were persecuting Christians people would draw a curved line on the ground with their foot, if the other person finished the fish it meant you were both believers. It was also used to mark safe places for Christians to practice their religion, I'd give you a source but I'm on mobile.
betelguese1 · -2 points · Posted at 01:05:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
It comes from the zodiac Pisces which is a fish. Firstly you must understand that the Earth besides spinning to cause a day and orbiting to cause a year, it also wobbles. A full wobble rotation happens around every 25,000 years and this causes the precession of the equinox. The last zodiac sign right before the sun rises is the current "age" and it changes with the planets wobble. In the story of jesus the current age was the age of Pieces. Ancient humans watched the stars and sky and came up with stories based on what they saw, this entertainment was passed on through generations and is the origin of all religious stories. For example the sun brings warmth, light, and life so people worshipped it as a deity. This deity has had many names, like Ra. Also it is Jesus, who was born in the East where the sun rises, and is depicted wearing a crown of thorns that represents the suns rays. Twelve disciples for twelve signs in the zodiac. Sorry for going off topic this is so clear to me yet no one can see or wants to accept it.
[deleted] · 0 points · Posted at 02:54:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
betelguese1 · 0 points · Posted at 03:24:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I have empirical evidence for everything I wrote. Point it out and I'll provide the evidence but don't vaguely say most of it.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 03:35:33 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
betelguese1 · 1 points · Posted at 04:13:55 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes they are different stories sprouted from the same seed: early mans ignorance and the belief that the sun was a deity.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 04:42:24 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
betelguese1 · 1 points · Posted at 05:42:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
There is no denying that all religions share common themes and symbolism to astronomical bodies. Why? It is obvious to me it is because they are all a retelling of a story that was created before written history. But do give me an alternative answer.
ZeroNom · 0 points · Posted at 04:20:31 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, they're right. Christianity is a rewriting of other pagan solar cults that utilize lots of astrological symbolism. It is very obvious. But I doubt that you'll see it, because you already have your mind made up. It's more than Zeitgeist, which is just a silly YouTube movie. There is a whole library of material to this respect. Go to USBible.com for a start.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 05:18:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
ZeroNom · 1 points · Posted at 03:10:25 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's really not just astrology. There is a copious amount of numerology in both the old and new testament, and much of the myth is very heavily borrowed from Babylonian and Egyptian myth. The Christ story appears in stories as diverse as Krishna and Odin. Also, there are astrological allusions in the old testament as well. Jacob's twelve sons clearly correspond to the Zodiac. Jesus just happened to be born almost exactly when the sign started to rise on the spring equinox in the sign of pisces. Also, there is the story of the two fish feeding the 5,000. The sign of Pisces is two fish. I guess Jesus could be a magic fish replicator, but I think it's more likely a metaphor about the power of the zodiac.
This is just the tip of the iceberg. I can go on if you like.
ZeroNom · 0 points · Posted at 04:17:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Christianity is a replica of other astro-theological cults. It contains a TON of astrology. It is basically a retelling of the sun's movement through the zodiac. Most people do not want to see this because it means that they've been swallowing lies for their entire lives, and they don't want to see the people they respect as wrong. It's very obvious that Jesus represents the Piscean godform. But what are you gonna do? They just don't want to see.
ufonyx · 1267 points · Posted at 16:58:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yup. Don't tell my cousin Josh. He loves to talk about how weird it is that "the Hispanics" feel so comfortable naming their kids Jesus, while "white people know it's disrespectful to our lord and savior".
Although I have often argued with him over his many racist statements, I have never told him the truth about his own name. He named his son Joshua Jr.
DeejusChrist · 53 points · Posted at 19:49:37 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
This actually reminds me of a book by Christopher Moore.
Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Jesus' childhood pal
They actually reference this very thing. Hilarious book and I would recommend it no matter how you feel about religion.
Demi_Bob · 7 points · Posted at 21:13:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I was going to mention this! Fantastic book! Great humor, and no lack of heart. One of my favorites.
TimeisaLie · 3 points · Posted at 23:17:15 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Moore doesn't want to make a sequel to Lamb because he didn't think it could li e up to the original. Now this is fair enough, but wouldn't you like to see Biff come back like others have?
mystikmike · 2 points · Posted at 04:11:19 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I read this book on a plane and burst out into laughter more than once. Weirded out my row mates more than once.
rollmop1 · 433 points · Posted at 17:44:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus was just his name, "Christ" is a title as in Matthew 16:16"16 Simon Peter answered: “You are the Christ,+ the Son of the living God.”+
ObjectiveScientist · 340 points · Posted at 19:03:36 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Christ comes from the Greek word Christos which means anointed.
rollmop1 · 328 points · Posted at 19:22:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
which is a title
[deleted] · 212 points · Posted at 19:47:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Which is the meaning of the Hebrew word moshiach, which is anglicized as Messiah.
CircumcisionKnife · 42 points · Posted at 21:04:35 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So combined with the original TIL, we should call him Messiah Joshua in English.
[deleted] · 107 points · Posted at 21:45:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
Cha-Le-Gai · 12 points · Posted at 22:01:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sounds like a game. Let's oil up the Savior and whoever can catch and hold on to him is redeemed in the eyes of the Lord and receives eternal salvation. Second place is a toaster.
StopReadingMyUser · 8 points · Posted at 23:27:11 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I smell a new sitcom. Jesus could also have his brother-in-law move in with him and have wacky adventures together.
We'll call it Drake and Josh.
BigYearColorado · 2 points · Posted at 00:16:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's about time for a buddy Jew sitcom with Aubrey Graham and Oily Josh. One is a Canadian rapper and child star, and the other can whistle by clapping his hands together! Together, they make beautiful music.
strangebanana · 1 points · Posted at 03:13:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not with his brother in law, but with his childhood pal, Biff.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:36:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Mac?
xCosmicKittenx · 1 points · Posted at 01:38:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Butter me up and throw me in the pool"
Jpvsr1 · 3 points · Posted at 22:27:59 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ah yes, my old nickname as a young Italian kid.
I was also known as the human brillopad. On account for my thick, almost curly hair.
neniocom · 2 points · Posted at 22:35:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
A valid translation - the best kind of translation.
DatBuridansAss · 2 points · Posted at 00:08:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
unctuous
B0Boman · 1 points · Posted at 22:56:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
This is amazing. Christmas will never be the same. Or should it be 'Oily Round-up' now?
Static_Flier · 1 points · Posted at 00:21:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Literally same
joshthewumba · 1 points · Posted at 00:56:14 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Weird, they called me that in middle school
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 23:31:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I prefer Boss Josh
joshmanders · 1 points · Posted at 01:04:17 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You can just call me Josh.
tehflambo · 104 points · Posted at 20:03:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Moshiach looks like a title you'd give someone who wins a mosh pit.
SanguinePar · 78 points · Posted at 20:21:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
She's a Moshiach, MOOOSHIACH on the floor, and she's moshing like she's never moshed before...
JustAPoorBoy42 · 1 points · Posted at 21:46:35 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So Joshua the Maniac died for our sins?
skyman724 · 10 points · Posted at 21:56:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The Moshiach of Meshuggah is a title worthy of admiration by the Pope himself!
CaptMorgan74 · 2 points · Posted at 22:29:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Add some phlegm to the end and you pretty much have the Hebrew pronunciation.
skyman724 · 2 points · Posted at 22:39:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Whatever you say, Achmed.
CaptMorgan74 · 0 points · Posted at 22:41:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I keel you!
Thybro · 5 points · Posted at 20:57:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Can you "win" a mosh pit? Never mind, if someone could do it would be the Moshiach, he who walks on crowds while others sink.
ausernameilike · 3 points · Posted at 21:50:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Instead of walking on water, hardcore Jesus walked on heads
azsheepdog · 1 points · Posted at 22:39:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I thought Moshiach was a computer developed by Apple?
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:24:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Shouldn't that be Moshiah? It's a hey, not a het.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:44:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
מָשִׁיחַ
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 02:20:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I see...
SheepGoesBaaaa · 1 points · Posted at 22:05:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
For we, like sheep, have gone astraaay,AAAAY, aaayy , AAAY, aaay
fistkick18 · -1 points · Posted at 20:21:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Which is funny, because originally it literally just meant their ordained leader. It later evolved to being very specific and grand.
dackots · 19 points · Posted at 19:38:23 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes. No one said otherwise.
ritromango · 5 points · Posted at 20:08:23 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Also a common name in Greece and Cyprus
StruckingFuggle · 4 points · Posted at 21:50:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, it means he was annointed, like lots of ranking officials, kings, priests, etc, were. It's like saying "crowned" is a title. It became used as a title, but originally it was more of a designation.
rollmop1 · 1 points · Posted at 22:22:01 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
"The" Christ would be a title as opposed to "A" Christ which would be a designation
Bluffz2 · 3 points · Posted at 22:14:31 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Idk my name is Christian
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 22:21:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
They probably just called him Jesus of Nazareth, or son of Joseph. Since there was no such thing as last names then.
MLG_SlashySouls · 9 points · Posted at 19:52:24 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
He's not arguing that. He's just further explaining the meaning of Christ. His explanation only backs up the idea that it's a title.
DoctorSteve · 5 points · Posted at 22:00:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
He did so in an argumentive way. Reddit is always a simmering powderkeg ready to blow, and everyone naturally assumes a reply is a refute. People on here need to be more careful with word choices and tone, or specifically write "I agree, to add". It's important not just on here but at work as well.
MLG_SlashySouls · 0 points · Posted at 22:05:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It doesn't seem argumentative to me at all. He added information and never said anything in the negative. I do agree with the rest of your comment though.
willreignsomnipotent · 0 points · Posted at 01:15:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Honestly I think the burden rests with the other party. People should not assume that any comment (or question) must be an attempt at an argument, or questioning their veracity. Aren't we all here to talk, and share info, and learn things? Then why be so argumentative (or hostile) when someone adds in a fact of their own, or asks for clarification?
Sure, I get that words on a screen don't carry tone as well as when we speak. But most of us wouldn't react to people that way IRL. Or maybe they do, but just don't say anything about it, and that's why there are so many uptight assholes out there... who knows?
Oh, and regarding this bit:
I honestly didn't take it that way at all. i see nothing in his statement that seems argumentative, per se. To be fair, it did seem like a bit of a non sequitur, and I was confused why he was even bringing it up (didn't really seem to follow the previous comment) but it really didn't seem argumentative, to me.
DoctorSteve · 2 points · Posted at 04:16:39 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I do not think the burden rests on the people reading the content. If people reading the content are reading it in a certain way, the person who writes it is at fault. "Jesus was just his name" comes off as a retort, clearly. He's also discussing Christ, which was not mentioned in the comment at all. There is a lot of room for improving this reply.
People do not assume comments are argumentative, there is just good reason to. I could make this comment sound argumentative very quickly. It's the nature of a reply system. It's something we need to keep in mind, not pretend doesn't exist or hope for a better world.
RigidChop · 7 points · Posted at 21:48:24 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I thought they named him Christ in honor of the fact that he was born on Christmas?
Raven_McCoy_ · 4 points · Posted at 22:40:08 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
No they changed the name of Christmas. It used to be just "Mas" but they added Christ to it after he was born.
[deleted] · 5 points · Posted at 23:16:22 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Can't tell if this is a joke or...?
wolfenkraft · 2 points · Posted at 03:38:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's a fantastic /r/kenm
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 20:43:35 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Very similar to "king" too.
Always cracks me up when I see "Christ the King" signs.
DuplexFields · 12 points · Posted at 21:18:59 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
"The Anointed One Who Rules All" has a bit more gravitas.
shui3tu4 · 2 points · Posted at 22:21:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Which people allow, probably because "King of Kings" did not also send linguists into conniptions.
drsfmd · 1 points · Posted at 21:52:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Think of it more like capo di tutti capi. Something gets lost in the translation to English.
[deleted] · 0 points · Posted at 22:09:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
king would be melekh (maybe malekh, memory is fuzzy) and is more similar to angel, which is malakhim
strong_grey_hero · 1 points · Posted at 21:57:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Which is where the name 'Chris' comes from.
theshoupguy · 1 points · Posted at 22:09:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Good ol' Oily Joshua.
Kain_niaK · 1 points · Posted at 22:54:28 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
anointed to be king! In the bible you read a lot of time a prophet tell somebody he is going to be king and then anoints him wit oil. So calling somebody "the anointed one" is similar to saying "des·tined to be king" Or like in the king Arthur mythology. Who ever pulls out the sword is the rightful king!
Wurstgeist · 1 points · Posted at 23:22:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Specifically, anointed with chrism.
frilink · 1 points · Posted at 01:33:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
anoint in Arabic is "Massah"........... that's why Isa or Jesus is also called Al-Masih in Arabic, translated "The Messiah".......
Double-Portion · 1 points · Posted at 01:58:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
One of my seminary professors said that because the Greeks had no real concept of pouring oil on kings like happened in the the Ancient Near East that naming Jesus "Christ" would be like saying that we worship a dead oily guy. Which he presented as something that he thought was pretty funny and that the first missionaries had some challenge because of that linguistic barrier.
musclemindvirsa · 1 points · Posted at 02:47:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I feel like everyone is quoting the character John Oldman from the movie The Man from Earth.
Hello_Generic · 28 points · Posted at 20:27:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus the Christ doesn't have the same ring to it though.
Cyhawk · 96 points · Posted at 20:49:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Joshua the anointed however does.
dudewheresmycar-ma · 29 points · Posted at 21:14:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Santa the Clause.
NotSoGreatGonzo · 18 points · Posted at 21:22:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
”There is no Sanity Clause!“
StrangeConstants · 2 points · Posted at 22:02:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well you win the white carnation.
SpottyNoonerism · 1 points · Posted at 23:27:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
How much is it if you don't practice?
tjtillman · 0 points · Posted at 22:12:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Beetlejuice cartoon reference?
battraman · 4 points · Posted at 23:12:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
A Night at the Opera.
Shippu7 · 2 points · Posted at 21:25:11 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Is it a gerund clause?
vorschact · 2 points · Posted at 01:57:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
While funny, Clause is not a title, neither is Santa. It comes from an English bastardization of the German Sankt Nicklaus, (Saint Nicholas), which when spoken in quick succession sounds like Santa Claus to the lay.
dudewheresmycar-ma · 1 points · Posted at 02:27:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I bet you're fun at parties.
Mister-builder · 2 points · Posted at 03:12:36 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wouldn't it be Clause the Santa?
derliesl · 1 points · Posted at 13:12:40 on December 22, 2016 · (Permalink)
You mean Clause the Saint?
big_bearded_nerd · 2 points · Posted at 22:05:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Interestingly enough, some traditional Mormon religious scholars refer to Jesus as exactly that.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 22:25:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
big_bearded_nerd · 1 points · Posted at 22:31:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Makes sense. That's probably where the Mormon folks got it from.
MahatmaBuddah · 1 points · Posted at 01:04:49 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Besides, would it be... Jesus H. the Christ! Or, Jesus the H. Christ!?
fuckusnowman · 49 points · Posted at 21:13:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Christ+. Like regular Christ, but better.
bw1870 · 45 points · Posted at 21:56:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Christ+ is object-oriented. Regular Christ was more into his subjects.
CaulkParty · 4 points · Posted at 22:16:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
What's Christ# then?
AcidicOpulence · 5 points · Posted at 22:22:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The lords programming language?
jaltair9 · 2 points · Posted at 01:59:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wouldn't that be Christ++?
BryceCantReed · 2 points · Posted at 23:56:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
When Jesus restarts the game but with harder enemies.
walterpeck1 · 1 points · Posted at 22:47:35 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Christ+ is his title now that he's on his second playthrough.
KidPrince · 1 points · Posted at 02:49:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I Can't Believe It's Not Christ!™
scrogglez · 1 points · Posted at 02:57:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Christ on a cracker!
derliesl · 1 points · Posted at 13:13:54 on December 22, 2016 · (Permalink)
Christ+ later resurrected as Christ#
askmeaboutmysciatica · 12 points · Posted at 19:41:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
what's the + all about?
Hamster_S_Thompson · 33 points · Posted at 19:44:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
New and expanded like c++ to c
[deleted] · 25 points · Posted at 20:50:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
buster_de_beer · 2 points · Posted at 21:33:55 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't know. Sounds like a memory leak to me.
GopherAtl · 3 points · Posted at 21:52:15 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
possibly, but definitely abused the default copy constructor, since he clearly bypassed the correct constructor's requirements (flour, baking, fishing nets, etc.)
eodtech1 · 1 points · Posted at 22:00:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
This is why I run TempleOS full time. /s
Nachteule · 1 points · Posted at 23:29:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I love reddit
WhoNeedsVirgins · 1 points · Posted at 23:43:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's clearly prototype-based OOP and not class-based.
oh_no_aliens · 1 points · Posted at 21:51:23 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Christ plus-plus
the_horrible_reality · 1 points · Posted at 09:09:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Coming soon:
++(c++)iDidAcidOnce · 1 points · Posted at 23:26:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Did anyone answer your question? I'm wondering this too..
What does the + mean?
sojik · 3 points · Posted at 23:59:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Probably copied the scripture from an online translation that had footnotes and clicking the plus signs would take you to them.
spacemoses · 2 points · Posted at 22:23:23 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Whoa wait a minute, I thought Christ was his surname.
rollmop1 · 3 points · Posted at 22:32:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
No surnames then, he would have been known as Jesus son of Joseph or Jesus of the tribe of Judah
robromero1203 · 1 points · Posted at 22:01:50 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeshua Ben Elohim Chayim.
Deepcrater · 1 points · Posted at 22:40:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So Christopher is much worse.
HeywardH · 79 points · Posted at 17:46:55 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
May be hypocritical of him to think that, but there were other people in the bible named Joshua(Yehoshua.) The name means "God is my salvation" and it's a perfectly honorable name for anyone to have.
CountZeroInterupt · 97 points · Posted at 19:13:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Came to the comments just to see if someone had the correct answer to this. Congratulations! Yehoshua = Joshua = "God is salvation." Yeshua = Jesus = "Salvation." Granted, it gets more complicated than this when looking at the evolution of language over time, but from a modern perspective, this can be considered correct.
atypicaltool · 6 points · Posted at 21:42:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Can you go into more detail?
PunkShocker · 4 points · Posted at 21:54:55 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
This is the point in the discussion when someone usually states with bold profundity, "Yeah, but you can make anything fit your analysis with details!"
ZoomJet · 1 points · Posted at 02:46:48 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So the TIL isn't accurate?
cyclopsrex · 8 points · Posted at 19:41:59 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
His name is weird then. It is basically saying he is his own salvation. Isn't that bootstrapping?
MLG_SlashySouls · 45 points · Posted at 20:00:14 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well he never sinned so he didn't need to be saved anyway. That's why he could be a sacrifice for our sins. But he was meant to be an example for how we should live. That's why there's a distinction between father, son, and Holy Spirit.
It's like if you had to move a box that was too heavy for you. But Jesus never got a box in the first place so he's free to help everyone with theirs.
CrazedHyperion · 8 points · Posted at 20:57:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's really weird how he existed before he was born, so he probably witnessed his own conception.
Jammersy · 5 points · Posted at 22:21:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
He's a timelord.
Agent_X10 · 3 points · Posted at 22:25:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
In the various hindu religions, a god just takes on an avatar(human form). But a particular god is just an avatar of a greater force, and so on. :D
NotRalphNader · -5 points · Posted at 21:48:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah, almost like it's made up but nah, that couldn't be.
cabarny · 0 points · Posted at 23:04:23 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Don't cut ur self on that edge bro
NotRalphNader · 1 points · Posted at 23:07:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Exactly, I don't believe in a theory that is denied by 97% of the national academy of science because I'm trying to be edgy. There are more scientist in the academy who believe that climate change isn't real than there are who believe the bible is true so the next time someones says climate change is real I guess I should respond with "Don't cut yourself on that edge"
cabarny · 3 points · Posted at 23:14:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So, may I ask why you feel "the national academy of science" is the chief authority on all matters of life?
NotRalphNader · 0 points · Posted at 23:16:31 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
May I ask why you go to a plumber when your plumbing breaks or a mechanic when your car breaks? Also I don't think they are the authority on "all matters of life" but of course you knew that before you wrote that. Very typical behavior.
cabarny · 2 points · Posted at 23:20:43 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ah, avoiding the question. Wonderful.
My point is scientism is no less a religion than Christianity. Convince yourself of what persuasion you may, but scientism, too, has deities.
(Hint: science changes kinda quickly. It makes no better a deity than you would charge Christianity.)
NotRalphNader · 1 points · Posted at 23:23:15 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Right. You asked a dumb question and I provided you with an equally dumb question. You essentially asked "Why would you go to a physicist when confronting questions about that which physically exist". I responded with "Why would you go to a mechanic about your car". Also you prefaced your question by misrepresenting my views as "all matters of life" which was clearly NOT what I was claiming. This shows how dishonest you're willing to be.
Religion is a THING. Science is not THING - it's a methodology of isolating truth. Nice try on the old "science is a religion" tactic. Science proposes a theory and attempts to prove it's own theory wrong. Religion proposes their theory is correct and specifically demands that you do NOT attempt to prove it wrong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7V3IciZa8w
Edit:
I also should note that although I believe you used the word "scientism" as insult - To basically imply that science is a religion. The definition is: "The view point that the scientific method AND the empirical science constitutes the most authoritative worldview or the most valuable part of human learning". While I do believe the scientific method IS the best method for understanding truth - I do not believe it's the only method and I would have accepted a strong philosophical argument for your position; of which you do not have. You do not have a valid philosophical reason OR empirical evidence for your belief.
MLG_SlashySouls · 0 points · Posted at 21:05:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That would be really strange, but Mary was a virgin so I doubt God deflowered her ;p
CrazedHyperion · 1 points · Posted at 07:23:17 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It is possible to impregnate without defloration, it happened to my ex-wife. She ended up with twins (found out at abortion time).
MLG_SlashySouls · 1 points · Posted at 13:10:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I know, my last comment was just a joke :)
PunkShocker · 1 points · Posted at 21:57:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And that, kids, is why Jesus cast the first stone...
childishidealism · -8 points · Posted at 20:50:31 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah, except it's even stupider than that. It's like if he created boxes and made them too heavy for you, then showed up to help you move yours, sort of, sometimes, told you not to complain about it, and then made damn sure you thanked him for the help. Jesus is an asshole friend.
MLG_SlashySouls · 23 points · Posted at 20:55:55 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
In the metaphor, the box is sin. You chose to pick up the box. You volunteered and you can't just skimp out on responsibility. The point is he gave us rules, we chose to break them, so instead of just making us all deal with consequences eternally, he gave us a way to fess up in exchange for no more punishment.
We fucked up, and he gave us a second chance. Wether you believe in it or not is up to you, but trying to spin it as Jesus being a "bad friend" is either ignorant or malicious.
DuplexFields · 8 points · Posted at 21:22:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And FYI, that salvation is no good to anyone who doesn't believe they're carrying a heavy box. Everyone has to realize it in their own time, or save some effort by listening to people who've been helped with their box-carrying.
MLG_SlashySouls · 6 points · Posted at 21:55:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Exactly. A lot of people are stuck in the "there's nothing wrong with me" mindset. They'll say things like "I'm not perfect" because that's what's been taught as the right thing to do, but they wouldn't be able to admit to themselves their own shortcomings. I know I struggled with that for years.
At the end of the day, we're all screwed up in one way or another. It doesn't make you less of a person, it makes you human.
Unfortunately wether you know you're carrying the box you picked up or not, you still are still held responsible for it because you did pick it up.
zygasaurus · 1 points · Posted at 21:14:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Except I didn't want my box. According to Christianity, I inherited it from some chick who was uncomfortable with her body image and wanted to stuff the box full of apples or whatever. Maybe that's why it's heavy. Either way, I didn't ask for or agree to the box. It was thrust upon me.
Shhhhhhhh_Im_At_Work · 2 points · Posted at 21:29:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Original sin is a bitch, but if you're protestant you can take solace in the fact that you can ignore that box for your entire life as long as you believe somebody is coming to help you eventually, and you'll be right!
deadlybydsgn · 7 points · Posted at 21:46:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Unless they've ever read the book of James. Faith without works is dead, bruh. Plus, Jesus said stuff like "If you love me, follow my commands," etc.
Yes, near-death conversions can happen (similar to the repentant thief on the cross), but think about it ... I can't be the ultimate judge of someone's inner life, but my gut says that someone actually planning for a deathbed conversion just might be missing the point.
Freikorp · 1 points · Posted at 21:50:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
I don't think anyone actually believes you can scam an omniscient being. If you're an atheist and you die and it turns out all of the Christianity stuff was true, you're not going to think "Welp, time to pull the wool over the eyes of this all-powerful being that knows my thoughts before I think them."
Pretty much every Abrahamic is confusing, anyway. So many interpretations and conflicting passages, navigating it as a believer kind of requires creativity in interpretation and what you say is metaphorical and literal. Not criticizing or being anti-religion at all here, just in case it comes across that way.
deadlybydsgn · 2 points · Posted at 21:52:25 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's why smart players always invest in Charisma for the final boss.
I'm kidding, your point is spot on.
Freikorp · 1 points · Posted at 21:53:37 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Great stuff, though, games that let you "talk your way out" of the final boss are so great.
MLG_SlashySouls · 1 points · Posted at 21:50:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
She gave you your sinful nature, but it's still you making your choices.
Bjarki56 · 0 points · Posted at 22:06:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wow, I can tell you researched this thoroughly in order to form your opinion.
zygasaurus · 0 points · Posted at 22:16:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah, it was pretty sarcastic, but maybe I'm just burnt out on people insisting they have to make up for the fictional misdeeds of our mythical ancestors or risk divine punishment instead of thinking "Wow, what a load of shit" and bring able to come up with their own morality and choices based on things like common decency and reason and logic.
Bjarki56 · 0 points · Posted at 22:19:20 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Without resource to absolutes then you are simply basing your beliefs not on the "fictions" of the past, but "fictions" of the present.
All morality and ethics and common decency becomes a "load of shit" that is just currently believed by the majority.
zygasaurus · 1 points · Posted at 22:41:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You just described faith, while deftly side-stepping the word "logic" in my post.
Bjarki56 · 0 points · Posted at 22:44:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
If you think that religious beliefs and logic don't go hand in hand, then you misunderstand both.
childishidealism · 1 points · Posted at 21:57:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
God is a pretty bad friend even by his own testimony of the bible. Maybe he's nicer in his Jesus costume, but not much.
MLG_SlashySouls · 3 points · Posted at 22:03:01 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's a slew of verses taken out of the context of a broader passage and the cultural differences of the time. You can make the Bible say anything you want if you're selective enough. Just like some radical christians are called out for this behavior, non believers should too.
childishidealism · 0 points · Posted at 22:46:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't disagree, but mass murdering your own creation because they aren't acting appropriately to your tastes is pretty hard to swallow under any context.
MLG_SlashySouls · 1 points · Posted at 23:07:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Murder is killing the innocent. If you truly think that there's someone who understands right from wrong who has never done the wrong thing then I'd love to meet them. You also have to remember that anyone who is innocent would be taken from a corrupt and painful world and put into an everlasting ecstasy.
Nobody likes to think themselves as bad. I'm sure Hitler, Osama, Pol Pot, Stalin, etc all thought that they were doing the right thing. They probably rationalized that the few bad things they were doing were outweighed by the "greater good." But even by our messed up standards we know that they were responsible for some truly horrific acts.
In the same way, not one of us is a purely good person. Not you, not me, not our parents, grandparents, favorite celebrity, no one. We may do good things, but so do murderers, and thieves. And the only way to think otherwise is to adopt a distorted worldview where dong the wrong thing isn't really that bad.
Just because a toddler doesn't like being put in time out when they hit their sister doesn't mean that the parent is evil or doing the wrong thing. You're not going to like everything God does. Because you're human and we're all incredibly immature and inexperienced compared to him. That doesn't mean that what he does is wrong.
childishidealism · 1 points · Posted at 00:25:39 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, murder is unlawful premeditated killing. Innocence or guilt is not a factor. You're missing the main point which is the classic logical problem of evil. In your make believe reality God made us what we are while being benevolent, omnipotent, omniscient. It simply doesn't add up. So either God is an asshole, God doesn't exist, or logic doesn't exist. Either way it makes God irrelevant to me, so I'll continue to be good for goodness sake, which holds much more meaning to me than worshiping a psychopath or a sadist or an egomaniac.
MLG_SlashySouls · 1 points · Posted at 01:29:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Except God didn't make us the way we are. And this was never a discussion on the relevancy of God in your life. If it was then I'd be trying to minister to you. Also, the link you provided offers two reasonable explanations immediately after mentioning that the argument for "why is their evil" was brought up.
This was a discussion on the morality of God. And with all due respect, it does to seem like you have a strong background in the subject. I'm not saying that because you disagree with me, because I've met many people that disagree with me with much more knowledge on the subject than I. I say that because it does not seem like you've read the texts with the intent of understanding them.
childishidealism · 1 points · Posted at 02:58:33 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wait, you don't think God made us the way we are? But that's totally contrary to the scripture of god making us in his own image. God can't be all powerful and all knowing and not take responsibility for making us exactly what we are. He either made us exactly what we are while knowing full well what we are/what we'd become, or he isn't actually all knowing, so you choose.
Yes, there are counter arguments listed, but that doesn't mean they actually hold up to criticism. So God alllows evil to protect us from a greater evil? Where did either or these levels of evil come from if not him? Why can't he just make either level of evil not exist? How can he allow this evil and still be all powerful and benevolent?
Free will - same thing. He allows people to suffer to give them free will somehow he controls hims self from knowing what's going to happen, or lets it happen anyway? So people suffer for what? His entertainment? It's ludicrous.
You're certainly right, I'm no theologian nor biblical scholar and don't espouse to be. I also don't understand all the finer details of the Lord of the Rings mythology or any other popular fiction, but I can still see some glaring plot holes from a mile away.
Please understand, I mean no personal disrespect to you or anyone else. I just don't think that religion get's a bye from critical thinking or discussion.
MLG_SlashySouls · 1 points · Posted at 03:18:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't take offense to any of this and absolutely agree that it needs to be analyzed.
And he didn't make us as sinners. He did make us with knowledge that we'd become sinners but that was still 100% our own choice. There is a difference between him knowing the future and him directly controlling it. If there wasn't then we wouldn't really have free will.
And if he made us incapable of making a bad choice, the love we would have for him wouldn't be genuine. Our happiness wouldn't be genuine. We'd be like computer programs that just go through a specific sequence every day.
Think about it like this. You're a parent with a young child who is (understandably) horrible with money. And they've been wanting a new toy that costs $20 so you say that they can get it by saving their $10 weekly allowance. Now you know that they are just going to spend that $10 on ice cream and candy at school, but you still give them the opportunity to make the choice for themselves. You could've even just not given them the money for two weeks and explain why, but you let them take responsibility for their own actions. After a week or two of having no toy the kid should start to figure out that they have to save their money to get what they want.
In the same way, God allows us to sin. He made us perfect, and gave us a set of rules that are very simple (though hard). He could've just made us incapable of doing wrong, but he wants us to live and grow to make decisions for ourselves. And that includes making the wrong ones that might affect other people as well.
It's almost like free speech. We have the right to say whatever we want, but it's foolish to think that there won't be any repercussions for what we say. And the alternative strategy is if the government just used mind control to keep us from every saying anything bad (but that would be horribly immoral... and impossible). In the same way, God lets us do whatever we want because it'd be horribly immoral for him to just control us. But it's ludicrous to think that we can do whatever we want without living with the consequences.
Yes, he allows people to suffer. But it's the peoples fault. He doesn't cause it or enjoy it.
childishidealism · 1 points · Posted at 03:33:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I fully understand the concept of free will you're describing, but you're leaving out so much and giving this version of God such an easy pass.
Except in the garden of Eden we hadn't yet eaten the fruit, so had no knowledge yet of good and evil. So he gave us a rule, but we had no capacity to understand the rule or any consequences of it.
What about all the people suffering through absolutely no fault of their own? Children born into it, etc... That isn't immoral for an all powerful God?
You say this is all to basically teach us a lesson to be good and love him, but what a sick abusive relationship. How about just making a world where we have free will but reduce the consequences a bit. I mean what lesson are we learning from birth defects, plague, hurricanes, etc...
The things that are 'wrong' or are 'sin' are only wrong in the context of the world that God made. Not only that, the rules continue to change. Do you believe you're wronging God when you eat pork, wear two types of cloth, or gather firewood on Sundays? Why is that ok now? Was God wrong? Did he change his mind? Is the bible wrong, or maybe not meant to be taking literally? If it's not 100% correct, than how do you decide what parts are correct or literal and which aren't?
People can't be happy or love without evil existing or consequences? I love my wife to no end even though she hasn't taught me any sick lessons by making me suffer. In fact, doesn't Jesus teach over and over about forgiveness, turning the other cheek, not seeking vengeance, etc...
MLG_SlashySouls · 1 points · Posted at 06:38:33 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
There is a difference between vengeance and punishment. And we are responsible for those children being born into horrible situations. "The people" is humanity. It's a consequence of our actions. No, it's not fair that we have done that to innocents, and it makes us so much worse for it.
Yes, wrong and sin is in the context of the world God made. If he didn't make it then all of those rules would be completely meaningless. Then you only have to be good for the sake of being good.
And as far as the rules changing, that's still up for debate. But how I understand it, Jesus fulfilled the law and someone who is saved (not just someone who says that they're a christian) isn't bound to it because it's already been covered by Jesus. Almost like a perpetual pardon. But someone who is truly saved will also be in the mindset where they don't want to sin and will feel guilt for doing sinful things. 1 Corinthians 10:23 comes to mind.
So a saved person will want to do the right thing and to follow Jesus' teachings and do whatever they can to be a "good christian." Like how a good, liked student could get away with more in class if they wanted to but wouldn't take advantage of that.
But you've experienced evil and pain. And you love your wife more because of it. If you grew up in a perfect world and never even had a bad thought then you'd be good to people and wouldn't feel bad, but it wouldn't be as real when you compare it to someone who struggles with trouble throughout their day but knows that they have that one person that they can come to and rely on. An escape.
Just look at water for example. In america, we bathe in it, spray it on our cars, swim in it, drink half of it and throw the plastic away. We take it for granted. But give a single bottle of water to a man dying of thirst and it would be the best bottle he has ever had. And he would have an appreciation for fluids long after being rescued. We need it because we need perspective.
You can't truly know what good is without bad. You can't know any emotion without having a contrast.
childishidealism · 0 points · Posted at 21:31:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Uhh.... I didn't choose, Adam and Eve did, and now I'm born with it. Except God made them, and the concept of sin, and the ability to sin, and us imperfect, but we take the blame.
Arcane_Bullet · 4 points · Posted at 22:09:59 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Alright so think of it like this.
You have a SO and you just fucked up, you made mistake in your eyes. Are they not going to be mad at you. This is what sin is.
Now lets say you never own up to your own mistakes and you are just kind of oblivious to what is happening in your relationship until one day your SO just leaves. You could say it is your SO's fault for leaving, but you were the one who made the mistakes, never owned up to them, and never apologized.
In my church I was taught that we were created by God as companions. He had angels, but they were created to do God's will (Don't ask me on Lucifer because I cannot think of a explanation atm). They were not companions. So God created Humans in his image and also gave them free will.
Now my explanation for why were are born into sin is because we are born with the Apple of Good and Evil within our blood. Also the promise that life will be harsh and stuff, but ya.
^ that explanation could also be why it is at least said within my church that mentally challenge people kind of get a "free pass" into Heaven because of the fact that they generally don't have the knowledge of good and evil.
MLG_SlashySouls · 1 points · Posted at 21:50:57 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You're born with a sinful nature. But what you do is still your choice.
REDDIT_JUDGE_REFEREE · 2 points · Posted at 21:10:25 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Its even more complicated, god made the best representatives of people (without boxes to move), told them not to eat his lunch while he moved some boxes, we ate his lunch, then told us to move our own damn boxes.
Then we were like wtf you're way stronger than us so how are we supposed to do this, and he was like ugh fine let me call my son in. Then we killed his son cause he looked wimpy but he was like Bruce Lee, and had an aura of power which he gave to all of us.
Now we use Bruce Lee-level aura powers to help us move boxes while we could have just chilled on the couch playing Pokemon Moon and tending to God's garden/weed stash.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:13:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[removed]
childishidealism · 1 points · Posted at 22:44:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I didn't complain about it. I just don't think God exists. We create our own boxes or they just appear randomly and we have to all help each other deal with them. The fact that we do that so often for one another is much more beautiful to me believing we do it of our own accord, not just because we're told to by a creator.
mugdays · -1 points · Posted at 22:46:22 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I am baffled how this became a belief, when Jesus sins many times in the Gospels.
MLG_SlashySouls · 1 points · Posted at 22:50:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Source?
HeywardH · 2 points · Posted at 20:25:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I assume it could also mean "God is salvation" in general instead of personal.
kurokame · 6 points · Posted at 22:06:03 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The concept of salvation for Judaism at that time and before was general, collective and national so you are correct. The Messiah wasn't expected to come save any particular person, but rather the whole of Israel. It was only after Jesus that salvation (through Christianity) morphed into a personal expectation/experience.
Shoninjv · 1 points · Posted at 21:46:14 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The name mean "YHWH is salvation", so Salvation to mankind is brought through Jesus by God (YHWH, Jehovah).
RExOINFERNO · 0 points · Posted at 20:15:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
This guys got it figured out
TheRationalLion · 1 points · Posted at 21:56:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Thank you. -guy named Joshua.
spade-s · 1 points · Posted at 00:18:53 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't think it's hypocritical since he didn't know, but I think it's just does show an interesting cultural gap. We see naming your kid after someone really amazing as pretentious, but having lived in South America they do it out of respect.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 04:17:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Kinda leaves big shoes to fill in a name though...
HeywardH · 1 points · Posted at 05:28:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It is the goal of a Christian to emulate Jesus.
xX-Coffee-Eater-Xx · 39 points · Posted at 20:06:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Idk if anyone has already commented this but Spanish-speaking Latinos refer to Jesus as Jesucristo, therefore plain Jesus isn't really ambiguous. Source: Sophomore Spanish teacher.
marty82 · 5 points · Posted at 23:58:08 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
we use both "jesus" and "jesucristo"
RedS5 · 1 points · Posted at 00:42:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Solid source
xX-Coffee-Eater-Xx · 1 points · Posted at 00:54:24 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
She studied in Guatemala, so potentially susceptible to dialect.
[deleted] · 121 points · Posted at 17:28:55 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
bentplate · 213 points · Posted at 17:36:09 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
-- Chris Pratt, 1919, Treaty of Versailles
Thopterthallid · 41 points · Posted at 18:04:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That Chris Pratt? Albert Einstein.
mugdays · 2 points · Posted at 22:44:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That Albert Einstein? Wicked smaht.
lemonade_eyescream · 1 points · Posted at 07:03:11 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
http://i.imgur.com/yi0YPAD.jpg
DrInsano · 1 points · Posted at 18:26:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
-- Wayne Gretsky
iamliamiam · 4 points · Posted at 18:33:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
-Michael Scott
OracleOperator · 1 points · Posted at 19:02:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
"That's what she said." -Mykonos
Shockrates20xx · 2 points · Posted at 19:47:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
"That's what." - she
BlindMidget · 83 points · Posted at 17:37:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Or, for you checkmated atheists out there:
"Never argue with stupid people; they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience" ~ Mark Twain
[deleted] · 49 points · Posted at 17:41:22 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
Kithsander · 10 points · Posted at 18:29:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I need to read Mark Twain.
I feel though that if I do this, I will severely regret having not read Twain twenty years ago.
zechickenwing · 15 points · Posted at 19:14:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I like his quotes and some of his stories, but I tried to read a few of his books and the wording/pacing gets tiresome. I feel like rather than regretting having not read him 20 years ago, I regretted not being born around the time when his books gained notoriety. Now they are more of a basis for storytelling that has evolved past that point (just my opinion).
Sonotmethen · 7 points · Posted at 20:16:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
He writes like hes talking to you while sitting in a rocking chair on a porch sipping tea. It sorta relaxes me in a way.
Waterknight94 · 6 points · Posted at 20:38:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So does CS Lewis but he does it as if he has really bad adhd and it makes his stuff unreadable for me.
Ainrana · 3 points · Posted at 22:31:23 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Four kids went to live out in the English countryside during World War II. Then they played hide-and-seek. The youngest one, Lucy, went in the wardrobe because she liked touching the fuzzy feeling of fur coats. However, it was a magic wardrobe, and it took her to a magical land where it always snowed!
Mister-builder · 1 points · Posted at 03:15:57 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I've never heard it described that way, but that's a very apt description.
thedrew · 4 points · Posted at 21:15:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
—Mark Twain
whiteash6 · 2 points · Posted at 18:51:59 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
better late than never right?
Magnus77 · 1 points · Posted at 23:16:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
A word to the wise is not needed and word to the foolish is wasted breath, better then to remain silent.
NotRalphNader · -3 points · Posted at 21:50:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I like "Arguing with a Christian is like playing chess with a pigeon. It doesn't matter how good the moves are that you're making the pigeon will still knock all the pieces over, shit on the board, puff it's chest out and strut around like it won"
jfreez · 8 points · Posted at 21:50:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
bruh you gotta cite that. Sounds like a Proverb. People want to know its origin
[deleted] · 11 points · Posted at 21:57:09 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] · 7 points · Posted at 22:11:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
A quick explanation: "In short, in negligible issues we should just ignore fools, but in issues that matter, they must be dealt with so that credence will not be given to what they say."
It's almost like real life.
[deleted] · 6 points · Posted at 22:08:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's almost like an anthology written over thousands of years, which is comprised of poetry, letters, law books and historical accounts, written by dozens of authors would have similar sounding, seemingly contradictory statements depending on intent and context.
Nahhhhh, it's just silly idiots that made up a book about a sky fairy to take your money.
glorioussideboob · 1 points · Posted at 00:22:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wait, that's a complete contradiction. You quoted it completely wrong.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:11:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
glorioussideboob · 2 points · Posted at 02:05:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Touche haha, but no according to all translations I can find you have it wrong but fair enough if that's your version, it doesn't flow very well though. It's like saying:
Do not eat your pudding before your main, or you will fill yourself up on sugar. Eat your pudding before your main, or you might not get chance to eat it.
There is no contrast between statements, it just reads like shit and makes no sense.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 03:10:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
glorioussideboob · 1 points · Posted at 13:13:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ah, well when I look for translations I mostly see 'answer a fool according to his folly' in the first line and then 'answer a fool as his folly deserves' in the second but there are lots of translations in fairness. I think there's an important discrepancy though since I interpret the line to mean in that case, "Don't sink to a fool's level, but correct them of their ways lest they think themselves wise." which makes a lot more sense to me and I think is how it was originally meant to read. If it reads as you say then imo it should read:
"Answer a fool according to his foolishness, and you yourself will be just like him. Do not answer a fool according to his foolishness, and he will be wise in his own eyes."
The sentences paired together without contrast just reads terribly to me, maybe it just doesn't translate well. I do like the 'damned if you do; damned if you don't' version too but only in my version, maybe I should interpret and translate the whole thing haha ^ ^
Ennion · 6 points · Posted at 19:34:08 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Then I wonder why there are so many Mohameds.
Soelaiman · 7 points · Posted at 20:43:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because Mohamed is deemed as a prophet by Muslims, and (to my understanding) Jesus is deemed as a godly entity by the Christians.
Ennion · 6 points · Posted at 21:03:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ahhhh, so like Moses.
[deleted] · 0 points · Posted at 21:14:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
Laughing_Ram · 5 points · Posted at 21:29:03 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Son, you're gonna learn about rebounding.
Ennion · 4 points · Posted at 21:33:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Moses Malone? Edwin Moses, Moses Storm, Moses Stone, Moses Brown, Moses Mosop and so on.
However, I was referencing the figure and not the name in comparison to a Mohamed.
kung-fu_hippy · 3 points · Posted at 21:28:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
John Moses Browning? He was somewhat famous. Maybe it was more common as a middle name.
lanboyo · 1 points · Posted at 22:16:37 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You Sir, are not from Philadelphia.
pgm123 · 1 points · Posted at 20:54:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's an Arabic name. Ever meet any Abrahams? Or Isaacs? Or Jacobs?
UnknownQTY · 9 points · Posted at 19:46:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Do it.
Johnnycockseed · 9 points · Posted at 18:55:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wow, your cousin's situation, name, and argument is the perfect set up for a rhetorical smackdown!
Enjoy your karma.
mugdays · 3 points · Posted at 22:43:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
To be fair, Hispanics generally refer to Him as Jesucristo, and nobody names their kid that.
pillbinge · 2 points · Posted at 19:31:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So tell him.
SgtFinnish · 3 points · Posted at 18:53:22 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Please do. Set the fucker down a couple of pegs.
nobbyv · 2 points · Posted at 19:22:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
But the kids can call him Joju.
ItsJustJosh3017 · 1 points · Posted at 19:04:55 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
:(
amorales2666 · 1 points · Posted at 20:27:37 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ah blissful ignorance lol
jofwu · 1 points · Posted at 21:50:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Another Joshua checking in. Not spelled the same, and Jesus knows it. Doesn't count.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 21:54:36 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Just tell him he'll have to be come a Mexican gardener now.
Dasbeerboots · 1 points · Posted at 21:56:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Why not? This seems like the perfect thing to tell him.
McGuineaRI · 1 points · Posted at 04:47:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Right? "How come people from there do this?" isn't really the most racist thing I've ever heard. Why not just tell him. I don't see why it would destroy him to know.
hoodie92 · 1 points · Posted at 22:26:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Eh, not really. Calling someone Joshua isn't the same as naming them after Jesus. That's like saying you named your kid Nathan after his uncle John.
Also, Joshua (or its Hebrew variant Yehoshua) is still a very popular name amongst Jews. Jesus... Not so much. Context matters.
ufonyx · 2 points · Posted at 22:29:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Did you somehow reply to my comment without even reading the post?
hoodie92 · 1 points · Posted at 23:06:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes, why? I'm telling there is no irony in your cousin's statements - the name "Josh" is so far removed from "Jesus" that nobody even links the two - like Nathan and John. In fact, the names are so far removed, that this TIL post has hit the front page because nobody even knows that the names were once the same.
Mookyhands · 1 points · Posted at 00:03:17 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I made a meme for your cousin a few years ago.
In case you want to break the news in style.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:54:11 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
ufonyx · 1 points · Posted at 02:03:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think someone finally understand my main point.
daimposter · 1 points · Posted at 01:06:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Muslims name their children Muhammad. The Muslims took over Spain for a bit and the practice of naming kids after their prophet was passed on. Then Spain colonized much of the Americas.
Odd how people have issues with naming a child 'Jesus'. BTW, in Spanish you typical refer to THE Jesus as 'jesucristo'.
destronger · 1 points · Posted at 01:39:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
you obviously don't seem to realize that not only 'brown' people speak Spanish.
'Hispanic' is translated to the word 'Spanish'... a European country of 'white' people.
do people not know that Spain basically did the same thing to parts of the USA and South America as the British did to most of the USA?
and don't get me started about the French!!
ufonyx · 1 points · Posted at 02:02:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I realize it, my cousin doesn't. Hence the quotes.
Rommel79 · 1 points · Posted at 01:41:57 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
My mom and I had this exact conversation a few years ago. She talked about how strange it was for Hispanics do that. I kind of paused and said "You realize you did exactly the same thing, right?" I had to walk her through it and she's has never criticized Hispanics for that again.
Dewut · 1 points · Posted at 01:51:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I mean while there's no denying your cousin sounds like ignorant piece of shit, his issue (or at least what he claims is his issue but is actually just racism) is with deliberately naming children after Christ. Seeing as neither his parents, nor him, were aware of the proper translation it most likely wouldn't shake his beliefs for a second. Assuming he'd even believe you, in my experience people like that have a hard enough time grasping that Jesus wasn't white, let alone went by a different name.
Tylerjb4 · 1 points · Posted at 02:59:17 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
At the same time, they're doing it intentionally (Mexico is SUPER Catholic) while that guy has no idea what he did
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 03:22:15 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Tell him!
the_horrible_reality · 1 points · Posted at 09:07:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Tell him.
pgm123 · 1 points · Posted at 20:52:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
He does realize that there are white Hispanic people, right? (in Spain, e.g.)
Jshaft2blast · 3 points · Posted at 21:27:55 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You mean spanish people? On a serious note I'm too ignorant to understand the areas or countries "hispanic" refers to. I do believe it's focus is regional, cultural, and language tied. eg. Spanish speaking countries in the Americas.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 22:16:54 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Hispanic" just means you come from a Spanish-speaking country. Spanish people are from Spain. "Latino" denotes being from Latin America and "Chicano" is specifically Mexican.
Source: sister is Spanish, grandpa was Mexican.
Jshaft2blast · 1 points · Posted at 22:39:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Thank you!, I like you. I learned something today
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:03:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
No prob. And thanks!
ufonyx · 1 points · Posted at 22:49:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Of course he doesn't.
missionbeach · 0 points · Posted at 22:23:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
If you post his Facebook page, the rest of us will tell him.
themikev4 · -5 points · Posted at 19:21:08 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Glad you didnt also tell him of the large number historians of the time, where only the word Christ (the anointed) was mentioned ever in a strange context that probably indicates that the story of Jesus is just a more elaborate fairytale used to promote obedience to government.
trillskill · -2 points · Posted at 22:02:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That isn't even racist.
You're dumb.
floppydude81 · 50 points · Posted at 18:47:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Stupid question... Then why are there so many Joshua's in the bible?
timo_the_pirate · 25 points · Posted at 21:24:23 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I believe that it because the Old Testament was translated from Hebrew while the New Testament was translated from Greek or Latin. I think the King James Version does have a few other names that are different between the two testaments.
[deleted] · 7 points · Posted at 21:58:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The old testament, aka the Torah, was written in mostly Hebrew with some Aramaic.
The New Testament was written mostly Greek, with some Aramaic and Hebrew.
bobby8375 · 4 points · Posted at 22:55:25 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The Old Testament, aka the TaNaKh, contains the Torah (the "Law" or "teaching", aka the Pentateuch or 1st 5 books, all in Hebrew), the Nevi'im (the "Prophets", aka the major and minor prophets and many of what Christians group as the historical books, all in Hebrew), and the Ketuvim (the "Writings", the rest of the historical books plus the poetry, mostly in Hebrew except for major Aramaic sections in Daniel and Ezra). Modern Bibles are translated from a couple prominent Hebrew scrolls, but the New Testament writers made apparent heavy use of the Greek translation known as the Septuagint.
losian · 1 points · Posted at 03:21:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I was under the impression, like the person you replied to, that a fair portion of the "roots" of Christianity were not at all "translated" but "written" in Greek, i.e. authored originally.. which I know doesn't jive with the myth and other such nonsense, but it makes quite a bit of sense given that Christianity was a popular cult in some Greek areas, and nothing sells a new religion like doom and a martyr, but hey.
trolleg · 1 points · Posted at 23:04:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The Torah is actually just the first five books of the old testament.
Plasticcaz · 2 points · Posted at 23:21:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The KJV translates the name of the prophet Elijah as "Elijah" in the old Testament, and "Elias" in the New Testament for precisely this reason. The Old Testament, or Tenakh as the Jews call it was written primarily in Hebrew and Aramaic, whereas the New Testament was written in Greek.
timo_the_pirate · 1 points · Posted at 03:10:14 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Elias/Elijah was the one I was thinking of, just couldn't remember off the top of my head.
ReddEquinox · 1 points · Posted at 03:32:12 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Someone should tell Joseph Smith
Pontus_Pilates · 24 points · Posted at 20:48:35 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
My guess would be that the Latin spelling, Iesus, spread quickly in the West and became a household name. When translation were later done, it was kept as is and the other Yeshuas were tranlated more accurately.
willsueforfood · 1 points · Posted at 14:23:29 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
suspicious username for this comment.
[deleted] · 9 points · Posted at 18:55:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Why wouldn't there be?
[deleted] · 9 points · Posted at 20:50:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because those names weren't translated as Jesus.
[deleted] · 14 points · Posted at 20:58:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
Shoninjv · 7 points · Posted at 21:48:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus is more important than Joshua. And Jesus was in the Greek part of the Bible, Joshua was in the hebrew/aramaic part
Eevolveer · 2 points · Posted at 21:55:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Basically Joshua isnt a perfect translation either. Yeshu or Yeshua would fit better. Joshua and Jesus are basically alternate spellings of the same name similar to Jeffrey v Geoffrey. The translations come out differently pertly due to that, partly to intentionally differentiate the figures and partly because all the books were not written at the same time or by the same people so if one person starts translating it as Jesus and everyone follows him its easier to keep that then tell a bunch of peasants that the guy they've been praying to has a different name.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 21:59:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
CHECKMATE ATHEISTS!
justanothergirling · 2 points · Posted at 21:58:15 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The answer is probably as simple as wanting to distinguish the one guy from all the other guys with the same name.
Kai_Daigoji · 2 points · Posted at 22:11:11 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It was a very popular name; something like 6th most popular in 1st century Judea.
Casper_san · 2 points · Posted at 23:16:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
There are many different variations of the name Joshua (Yeshua). It's like how if you meet someone nicknamed Will, their first name could actually William, Willard, Wilhelm, Willis, etc. Jesus is essentially a translation of a specific variation of Yeshua.
stoopidJosh · 1 points · Posted at 21:13:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Someone had to save the Jews.
slightlyaw_kward · 1 points · Posted at 22:47:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because they didn't call him Yehoshua, they called him Yeshua. The name may have come from Yehoshua, but it isn't the same name.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:37:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The rule of thumb was to translate Jesus for the New Testament and Joshua for the old. But this rarely worked out. The oldest translations of the king James are actually rather inconsistent and often times the translated accidentally translates one to the other.
cashonlyplz · 1 points · Posted at 01:29:15 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Smart question, you mean.
pfp-disciple · -1 points · Posted at 19:04:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/5h7pti/til_jesus_name_translated_from_hebrew_to_english/day5aji/
[deleted] · 253 points · Posted at 19:11:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] · 77 points · Posted at 21:38:25 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I read that in the peasant voices from Monty Python and the Holy Grail
[deleted] · 35 points · Posted at 21:47:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] · 7 points · Posted at 22:01:35 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nah, totally this woman saying "Our who?" after being told about Joshua. Joshua, the Christ.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 00:53:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
chumbawamba56 · 1 points · Posted at 01:00:29 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No because the banter that the king and his servants had at the beginning on the Holy grail isn't quiet like the other Monte python
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:04:19 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
chumbawamba56 · 1 points · Posted at 01:12:02 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Okay I think I get what you're saying. I think OP was referring to how the servants are acting all knowledgeable and making the king look stupid or unimportant. Both are very relatedable, I just think of the Holy grail first.
yoblanco · 5 points · Posted at 00:06:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sorry, but I was expecting "SIR, I ALREADY TOLD YOU I'M NOT A JOSHUA PERSON".
ncnotebook · 2 points · Posted at 22:24:31 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
B-rizzle · 3 points · Posted at 22:06:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
More like "What? Nonsense! String him up for blasphemy!"
edit: I think that Israel was controlled by Muslims at that point anyways?
selahbrate · 1 points · Posted at 00:16:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I thought this was serious until about half way through when he mention ass kickings
mr3dguy · 1 points · Posted at 06:35:26 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Darkmatter2525 did an animation based on that concept. Scroll back to the start if you want the full setup.
CampFlogGnaw1991 · 16 points · Posted at 19:46:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
my NAME is Joshua!!!
FelixNZ · 4 points · Posted at 22:14:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
reported for Doxxing!
joshmanders · 2 points · Posted at 01:06:26 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Prove it.
MidnightShart · 2 points · Posted at 01:44:44 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
jesus, calm down..
drewster298 · 13 points · Posted at 22:58:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And Josh said "let there be light" and the disciples were like "awesome"
Dear_Leader_Trump_ · 23 points · Posted at 20:33:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
But jesus spoke aramaic.
Orlando192 · 23 points · Posted at 21:37:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wasn't Hebrew still very common among Jewish communities at the time no matter what part of the world they lived?
Hopafoot · 36 points · Posted at 21:56:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Correct. In fact, it's likely that Jesus was at least trilingual, as Jews generally were at that time (the languages being Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek).
bathswithdad · 11 points · Posted at 01:34:11 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Is the Greek due to Alexanders conquests those centuries beforehand still lingering within the culture?
tootlez · 7 points · Posted at 01:53:44 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
yep, pretty much!
s_s · 3 points · Posted at 04:20:18 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yep.
Alexander->Selucid Dynasty->Hasmonean Dynasty->Roman rule
The major Greek-influenced cities of the area during Jesus's time were called the Decapolis. Capernaum, found of he shores of the Sea of Galilee was Jesus's home.
hotpinkurinalmint · 2 points · Posted at 04:28:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hebrew is a very old language. By Jesus' time it was not an every day language and was only used in liturgy. Aramaic was the more contemporary language, but it was similar to Hebrew and mutually intelligible.
Aramaic is like contemporary American English and Hebrew is like Shakespearean English.
ImagineAllTheKarma · 1 points · Posted at 23:13:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Were there Jews outside of the middle east 2000 years ago?
[deleted] · 8 points · Posted at 00:50:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Yep. They established colonies after the double defeat of Babylon and Assyria in the 500s bc. The diaspora of Jews settled everywhere from India to France. I wish I had a proper map, but sadly I don't know of one. Best I could find from a google search is this. the Jews in Ethiopia and India are two I've studied a bit. They have a curious history. 2,500 years in isolation, but still praying and reading the same as other Jews.
One of the reasons Christianity was so fast to spread across the world was because the first Jewish Christians would go to the temples at these Jewish colonies before converting Gentiles. The Jews were not so evangelical, so within a few years the Jewish colonies were overpopulate by gentile converts who lived in these Jewish settlements and worshipped in the temples. Over time they separated when their theology became so obviously incompatible. There are a few amusing anecdotes of history of the awkwardness this created. For example, when the Portuguese sent missionaries to India to convert the population, they were greeted by a long lost branch of Christians who had grown out of one of these Jewish colonies in India. They were called st Thomas Christians. They were cut off off from the west for hundreds of years after Rome collapsed and survived prolonged periods of isolation there. To this day there are Jews and Christians in India who can trace their heritage back over 2000 years. The Christians to the apostle Thomas who converted them (hence their name), and the Jews who have been there since the exile around 500 Bc, called Cochin Jews.
There's actually a text from there credited to Thomas that explores some of the conversations between Jews, Christians, and the local Hindu kings. Rather good read if you ever have he tim. [Here you go.](www.earlychristianwritings.com/actsthomas.html)
nomad80 · 1 points · Posted at 01:42:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You have no idea how valuable that link is to me. thank you
Orlando192 · 1 points · Posted at 00:16:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No idea
[deleted] · 6 points · Posted at 21:50:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And almost certainly Hebrew. Aramaic was the "everyday" language. Hebrew was the language of religion and names.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 01:31:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
As well as Hebrew, Greek, and Latin.
iheartcrack666 · 1 points · Posted at 21:51:42 on December 11, 2016 · (Permalink)
He spoke English! The language of God.
Rollin_Rollin_Rollin · 0 points · Posted at 02:04:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jews are trying to appropriate Jesus even while hating him.
taste1337 · 13 points · Posted at 19:44:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Isn't there already a Hebrew name for Joshua? I mean, that's a name that's already in the bible.
Drizet42 · 20 points · Posted at 21:19:59 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The hebrew name for Joshua is Yehoshu'ah (יהושע)
The hebrew name for Jesus is Yeshu'ah (ישוע) or yeshu (ישו)
taste1337 · 13 points · Posted at 21:24:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Gotcha. So in Hebrew the 2 names share the same root word, I guess.
[deleted] · 12 points · Posted at 21:49:14 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes. They both mean, roughly, "Yahweh saves."
JasonPollack36 · 3 points · Posted at 03:17:31 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hebrew names that start with Y or I or J, are actually verbs in future tense. They mean what the child will do when he grows up. For example Isaac means "will laugh", Joseph means "will multiply", Israel "will wrestle with God"
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 22:17:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Yahushua might actually be closer than Yeshua even for Christ personally. There might have been many efforts made to try to cover up the Tetragrammaton.
nomad80 · 1 points · Posted at 01:48:57 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I find that fascinating, but in keeping with the gospels
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 04:13:02 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Does G2424 not have an origin of H3091 according to both Strong's and Thayer's?
nomad80 · 1 points · Posted at 05:30:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
largely agreed upon as the origin, yes.
My understanding (iirc) of the progression to Yeshua lies in Masoretic text influences that pushed for the Adonai aspect to be introduced. This goes into it a little bit better than I can explain
Shoninjv · 3 points · Posted at 21:50:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's the same : Yeho = Ye = Yo
Drizet42 · 1 points · Posted at 08:31:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It might have the same meaning, but it's still a different name
Shoninjv · 1 points · Posted at 08:34:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Contracted or not. It's the same, basically.
OrganicMicroscopes · 2 points · Posted at 22:15:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Is ישוע really more correct than יהושע even for Christ Himself if Zechariah 6:11-13 is Messianic Prophecy? There might have been many efforts made to try to coverup יהוה.
bowlin_forsalad · 2 points · Posted at 01:40:48 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You know what's interesting? I actually realized the cognate relationship between the Latin and hebrew words for salvation.
The name Yehoshua in hebrew is God saves, break this down to its individual components and you get Yeho, meaning God, and shua, meaning save.
Shua eventually evolved through the Latin Salutem, rooting into the Latin word salvus, meaning safe. Then Salvus evolves into French, sauver, and finally from French into English as Save. Hebrew is more influential than we think.
destronger · 1 points · Posted at 01:43:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
shouldn't 'saves' be 'salvation?'
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 04:09:43 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/files/alphabet_chart.gif
Drizet42 · 1 points · Posted at 09:50:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeshu'ah is definitely not the same name as Yehoshu'ah.
Yeshu'ah was God's son, whereas Yehoshu'ah was a prophet.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 11:37:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Does G2424 not have an origin of H3091 according to both Strong's and Thayer's?
Drizet42 · 1 points · Posted at 15:42:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
One might originate from the other, but they are still two different names referring to two different people.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 04:09:30 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Who do you think is referred to in Acts 7:45?
ReadyToBeGreatAgain · 2 points · Posted at 03:24:26 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So basically, this post is full of shit. They are close, but NOT the same.
TheThrowawayPrincess · 1 points · Posted at 22:13:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So really Jesus is "Jeshu" right?
Drizet42 · 1 points · Posted at 09:44:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, not exactly, but it depends on whom you ask.
For starters, when translating Hebrew names to English, the Y sounding letter is replaced with a J, and not with a Y.
Jesus's actual Hebrew name Is Yeshu'ah, but most people refer to him nowadays as Yeshu (Originally it was meant as an insult that meant "May his name and memory be forgotten", but it lost its meaning a long time ago)
s_s · 1 points · Posted at 04:26:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
well, Not quite.
Jesus isn't exactly a Hebrew name. It's a Greek approximation of an Aramaic variant of the Hebrew name we in English call Joshua.
pgm123 · 2 points · Posted at 21:03:08 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The New Testament was written in Greek.
taste1337 · 1 points · Posted at 21:23:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes, but the Old Testament was written in Hebrew and the name Joshua is in the Old Testament. He was an advisor of Moses who God spoke to after Moses died. There's an entire book of the Old Testament named for him.
pgm123 · 3 points · Posted at 21:37:01 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes. What's being questioned? The Hebrew version of Joshua, translated into Aramaic and then translated into Greek is Iesous. Translated into Latin, that's Iesus. Translated into English from Latin, it's Jesus.
Ua_Tsaug · 1 points · Posted at 05:39:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
And when the New Testament refers to Joshua from the Old Testament, it calls him "Jesus" as well.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:17:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
But is he the same one that comes back as Jesus?
Drizet42 · 1 points · Posted at 09:45:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No
Ellimist-Meno · 19 points · Posted at 22:29:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The book lamb: the gospel according to biff Christ childhood pal taught me it should be Joshua lol amazing book. Much better then any other books on Jesus
Source_Australian · 13 points · Posted at 23:30:22 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I can't believe I had to scroll this far for this reference.
Nashty10 · 8 points · Posted at 00:09:25 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's what I immediately thought of
P2000Camaro · 4 points · Posted at 03:02:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No shit! That's what I came to the comments for.
NotThtPatrickStewart · 2 points · Posted at 05:15:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yup, me too. Had to go waaay too far.
PhillipBrandon · 26 points · Posted at 20:23:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I've never quite understood names being translated/translatable. Somehow they don't seem like words to me in the same way...
Anrza · 35 points · Posted at 22:16:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
The title is poorly worded. Transliterated, i.e. converting it to our script, would be a better word. Since pretty much no one can read all scripts, transliteration is necessary.
It's not actually translated, if it were it would be something like "God saves".
It was however kind of adapted for Ancient Greek and Latin. Ancient Greek has no letter or letter combination representing the sh-sound and neither has Latin, so the 'sh' goes away. Then the ending is adapted to better suit the inflectional system of the respective languages.
PhillipBrandon · 1 points · Posted at 23:20:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well even transliterated between languages that share scripts. Like Mary in the U.S. being Maria in Chile, Johnny being Gianni. Or even saying these are the "same name." I just don't understand what that means at some level.
We're still all using the same roman alphabet (maybe an ñ here or there). I've always associated names so much with identity that it seems weird to localize them.
locks_are_paranoid · 1 points · Posted at 02:27:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Technically it's not the same name since it has a different spelling and pronunciation.
qp0n · 3 points · Posted at 22:20:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because they aren't. A "translated" name is just a different name that evolved from another culture. It's still a different name.
Like how Juan is not an English name but English speakers don't translate it to John.
spamshampoo · 2 points · Posted at 01:47:31 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Spanish speakers definitely call my husband Juan, even though his name is John. All day long, WHHAAAAN!!!!
OrganicMicroscopes · 2 points · Posted at 22:26:15 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
What if you have a really good point and names should be transliterated instead of translated. There might be rebel angels who don't want people to know some names.
OrganicMicroscopes · 2 points · Posted at 22:26:28 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
What if you have a great point and names should be transliterated instead of translated. There might be demons who don't want people to know some names.
jokel7557 · 1 points · Posted at 21:48:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
100 percent agree. always bothered me that people translate names.
kvrle · 1 points · Posted at 00:12:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
They all meant something originally, that's why they're translatable.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:34:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Germans and English had a whole period in the past 300 years where they invented the letter J. At first it had a Y sound. Then they decided he J we know now. During his time, translators were rather confuse.d prior to this mess, the name was Ieshu and variations there of. Yeshu and Ieshu are basically the same thing with a slight accent.
Essentially it was more or less the same thing, and then a new letter was invented.
s_s · 1 points · Posted at 04:29:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Eugene is an English name.
In Spanish they pronounce it ay-You-HAIN-E-O and spell it Eugenio
Joshuathepure · 46 points · Posted at 18:00:12 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I always thought I was an alcoholic for turning water into wine, now I realize it was just God's plan for me.
burritosandblunts · 7 points · Posted at 18:18:14 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'll pass on the body, just gimme the blood!
Joshuathepure · 5 points · Posted at 18:23:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I read your name as Burrito sand blunts, and thought to myself I wouldn't want sand in my burritos or my blunts...
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 21:59:50 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's why you had 12 dudes following you everywhere.
Joshuathepure · 3 points · Posted at 22:08:23 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
yes.... that's why....
ChurroBandit · 1 points · Posted at 00:31:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I can turn wine back into water, does that make me the antichrist?
Sethora · 1 points · Posted at 02:17:12 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, considering bread is his flesh and wine is his blood...
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 03:57:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Only after transubstantiation.
Fantagious · 8 points · Posted at 05:24:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
If the name of the book's main character is so badly butchered from so many translations, imagine what's happened to all the other words, let alone the subtle nuances that grammar lends to written language. And people fight wars for this shit. What a joke.
Soloman212 · 1 points · Posted at 18:11:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Muslims are very careful to differentiate between the Quran and translationd of the Quran for this very reason. And ultimately they always recommend learning Arabic as the best way to study and understand the Quran. Translations are more like a synopsis of a movie than the screenplay. There's so much nuance in sentence structure and syntax of the language, as well as etymology and word patterns and roots.
chatrugby · 1 points · Posted at 15:26:10 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
No joke, the angel Gabriel came down and said he was to be named Immanuel, how that turned into Jesus is anyone's guess.
bukithd · 5 points · Posted at 22:57:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I first learned this from the movie the man from earth
nekroman524 · 2 points · Posted at 23:01:20 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Awesome movie!
bukithd · 2 points · Posted at 23:15:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It was a great philosophical movie. Dialogue was well written and the story made you wonder a lot.
FriTzu · 1 points · Posted at 03:14:30 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The dialogue was so good, I was captivated even though almost nothing was happening in the movie, it's literally just a group of people talking in a room.
iplaythdrums · 6 points · Posted at 00:15:26 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
In mandarin he's still called by his original name "yeshua".
Big_Cock_Cunt_Fucker · 27 points · Posted at 17:38:59 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
King James lied? Wasn't he English?
notbobby125 · 28 points · Posted at 18:12:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Actually he was Scottish.
HanSoloCenturyFalkon · 44 points · Posted at 22:40:23 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ahh the old Yeshuaroo
jsjamell · 26 points · Posted at 23:56:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hold my Septuagint, I'm going in!
Allmightyexodia · 21 points · Posted at 19:06:30 on December 15, 2016 · (Permalink)
IM ALREADY IN TOO DEEP DAMN IT. I HAVE NO CHOICE HERE WE GOOOOOOOOOO
Snuffy1717 · 10 points · Posted at 17:07:35 on December 11, 2016 · (Permalink)
HELLO FUTURE PEOPLE!
Danny1551 · 4 points · Posted at 05:17:03 on December 23, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hi everybody, I fell into this from the Siberia post. I haven't seen the sun in eleven days. Send help.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 06:10:53 on December 20, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
Mr_Eggs · 2 points · Posted at 06:30:24 on December 21, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hello!
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:52:49 on December 29, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hi
scubadoodles · 1 points · Posted at 03:52:28 on January 2, 2017 · (Permalink)*
Whadup🙃
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:30:01 on January 12, 2017 · (Permalink)
hi
deratizat · 1 points · Posted at 17:47:02 on January 20, 2017 · (Permalink)
A real life time machine. We did it reddit.
kake241 · 1 points · Posted at 15:04:54 on February 5, 2017 · (Permalink)
It just keeps continuing
[deleted] · 4 points · Posted at 04:45:07 on December 13, 2016 · (Permalink)
Gorillas in the mist plot twist ninjas clenching fists lynching kids bangin the needle with a dirty Syringe snitchin bitches sleeping with Fish lethal needles leave people in fetal fearful of a peaceful sequel. that's reincarnation
FossilGal · 1 points · Posted at 22:40:16 on January 1, 2017 · (Permalink)
Now I've got to outlast the deep damn it and the future people guys.
Myth0sfreak · 1 points · Posted at 02:22:52 on February 11, 2017 · (Permalink)
If anybody is wondering, as of February 10, 2017, it will take about 2 hours to follow all of the links. At least until I gave up.
SgtFinnish · 28 points · Posted at 18:53:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The plot thickens.
rustedrevolver · 0 points · Posted at 21:48:08 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm starting to think this is all bullshit.
jackster_ · 4 points · Posted at 22:41:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
They talk about this in an awesome and hilarious work of fiction by Christopher Moore called Lamb: the Gospel According to Biff, Jesus's Childhood Pal . It is a, in some respects historically accurate, and in others just made up hilariousness, but Jesus just goes by the name Josh. It's a great read and highly suggest it. He has many other comedy/fantasy books as well and they are all pretty good!
[deleted] · 6 points · Posted at 22:42:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I recommend everyone in this thread read Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal by Christopher Moore.
BiscuitWaffle · 11 points · Posted at 19:26:14 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Isn't his Hebrew name Yeshua?
[deleted] · 31 points · Posted at 19:42:23 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
That would be Aramaic, a language similiar to hebrew(think spanish and portugese) that was the everyday language in northern israel, where jesus was supposed.to have grown up, at the time.
The Aramaic version of the name became popular to use in American evangelical circles due to the use of the language in Mel Gibson's film "the Passion of the christ."
Hebrew it is Yehoshua.
There are still prayers in the jewish siddur(prayer book) that are in aramaic,.such as the kaddish. The part of the hammy called the gemera is in aramaic, as several Books of the Nevi'im(the prophets) like the book of Daniel.
after the babylonian exile hebrew became like latin a religious language, the people spoke western aramaic a language similiar to hebrew and also related to what the babylonians had spoken.
Source- I am jewish and interested in philogy(the study of how languages develop)
Lurkin_McLurk · 10 points · Posted at 20:48:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Using other names in the bible there is a lot of YAHU/AH/YAH in names. So YEHOshua wouldn't really work. Use PALEO-HEBREW, not modern Hebrew w/dialects.
Abram- AbrAHam- “The Father YAHUAH of a Multitude”
Isaac- YAHsaac- “YAHUAH Laughs”
Jacob- YAHcob- “YAHUAH Succeeds”
Judah- YAHUdah- YAHUAH’s Worshipers and Followers
Perez- means “A Break”
Zerah- ZerAHk- “The Rising of Light is YAHUAH”
Hezron- Chetsron
Ram- RaAHm “YAHUAH Is the Highest”
Amminadab- AmiynAHdaab- “People of YAHUAH are at Liberty”
Nashon- NAHchshon- “YAHUAH’s Enchanter”
Salmon- SalmAH- “Clothing Provided by YAHUAH”
Boaz- Bo’az
Rahab- RAHchaab- “YAHUAH is Proud”
Obed- Owbed- Serving
Ruth- RUth- “YAHUAH’s Friend”
Jesse- YeshAHy “The Existence of YAHUAH Continues”
David- Da'ud- “Love YAHUAH”
Solomon- ShalomAH “The Peace of YAHUAH”
Uriah- UwriYAHU- “The Flame of YAHUAH”
Rehoboam- RachAHbam “The people of YAHUAH has Enlarged”
Abijah- AbiYAHU “Fathered by YAHUAH”
Asa- AHca “YAHUAH Heals”
Jehoshaphat- YAHUshaphat- “YAHUAH is the Judge”
Joram- YAHUram “YAHUAH Raised”
Uzziah- UzziYAHU- “Strength of YAHUAH”
Jotham- YAHtaam- “YAHUAH is Perfect”
Ahaz- “AHchaaz- YAHUAH is the Possesor”
Hezekiah- YAHchizqiYAHU- “Strengthened of YAHUAH”
Mannasseh- ManAHshah- “YAHUAH Made Me Forget”
Amon- AHmon “YAHUAH Trains”
Josiah- YoshiYAHU- “Founded of YAHUAH”
Jeconiah- YakonYAHU- “YAHUAH Will Establish”
Shealtiel- ShaltiYAHel- “I have asked YAHUAH Eloah”
Zerubbabel- Zarubaabel
Abiud- AbiyhUd “Renowned is YAHUAH”
Eliakim- ElYAHqiym “Eloah YAHUAH is Raising”
Azor- AzzUr “Helpful is YAHUAH”
Zadok- TsAHdoq “YAHUAH is Right”
Achim- YAHqiym “YAHUAH Rises”
Eliud- EliUd “God YAHUAH of Majesty”
Eleazar- ElAHzaar “Eloah YAHUAH is Our Helper”
Matthan- Mattan “A present”
Jacob- YAHqob- “YAHUAH Succeeds”
Joseph- YAHceph “YAHUAH Increases”
YAHUsha “YAHUAH is Salvation
slightlyaw_kward · 2 points · Posted at 22:55:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That is incorrect. Names with references to God in them will have either YAHU (sometimes shortened to YAH, only at the end of the name) YEHO (sometimes shortened to YO) or EL. Any name that has one of those (well, not Joseph) is a reference to God. Most of the ones you mentioned do not.
Vuguroth · 1 points · Posted at 01:04:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
it can easily get confusing though... when it seems like both something like YEHOWA and YAHWEH can make sense. Hallelu-yah, Yo-shua... In the languages I've learnt so far, they don't use techniques like that, so I find that it can seem a bit unintuitive.
[deleted] · 4 points · Posted at 22:13:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Isaac is not pronounced YAHsaac in hebrew, it's prounced ITZHAK, like the prime minister Yitzhak Rabin
JasonPollack36 · 1 points · Posted at 03:30:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That can't be true, because use of g-d's name is strictly forbidden in Judaism. To the point that in the sequence of Hebrew numbers the number 15 is made an exception, because two letters Yud and Hei which would have comprised it, resemble G-d's name too much.
ACTTutor · 2 points · Posted at 22:54:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's philology, not philogy. Unless you're trying to help the language develop by inventing a new word. In which case, well played.
daoudalqasir · 1 points · Posted at 21:16:12 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
the Hammy?
i think talmud was what you were going for.
also another big one, the Zohar is in aramaic.
in rabbinic hebrew aramaic is often used the sameway latin is used in legal english.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:03:11 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Was one mobile autocorrect sucks
CanotSpel · 1 points · Posted at 22:36:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Source - 12 years of cheder.
OrganicMicroscopes · 0 points · Posted at 22:21:24 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Do you really think Yehoshua ben Nun was a more accurate transliteration than Yahushua ben Nun with him walking earth? What's trustworthy about vowel pointings if they aren't original to Ibrit? There might have been many efforts made to try to cover up the Tetragrammaton.
cyclopsrex · 0 points · Posted at 19:43:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That is the same name.
OrganicMicroscopes · 0 points · Posted at 22:21:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yahushua might actually be closer than Yeshua even for Christ personally. There might have been many efforts made to try to cover up the Tetragrammaton.
Jesus_Harold_Christ · 17 points · Posted at 21:20:08 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I thought everyone knew this.
Phoenix_Heat · 23 points · Posted at 21:26:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Calm down /u/Joshua_Harold_Christ
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 03:59:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think almost every Christian knows this. This is reddit, though.
BJUmholtz · 3 points · Posted at 21:36:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The movie War Games just started making even more sense.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 03:21:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
BJUmholtz · 1 points · Posted at 03:55:53 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ya never know.. the way Dr. Falken was obsessed with evolution and man's destruction of himself.. it would make sense to name an AI he created that could wipe out most of humanity in one fell swoop after the "concierge" of the Rapture who is basically doing something similar. If I was writing a screenplay in the 80s during the cold war like War Games, I might slip that in there.
sprawlaholic · 4 points · Posted at 22:46:09 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus Christ means "anointed one" in Greek. His name, if you believe that he actually existed, was Joshua Ben Josef.
whoAreYouToJudgeME · 1 points · Posted at 01:52:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wouldn't it be Yeshua ben Yosef.
sprawlaholic · 1 points · Posted at 03:30:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes
destronger · 1 points · Posted at 01:58:43 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
'Christ' translate to 'anointed one.'
Jesus/Yeshua was his name.
sprawlaholic · 1 points · Posted at 03:30:47 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes, thank you.
manofmashpotatotoes · 3 points · Posted at 22:57:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
actually it's pronounced He-Soos.
source: Armenian
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:34:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
In Armenian yes. But I don't think that was the Aramaic pronunciation.
ElNegro1121 · 4 points · Posted at 23:16:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And Christ from hebrew into english is Kramer.
SplatterBox214 · 5 points · Posted at 00:20:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
As a Joshua, i have always felt connected to the divine for some odd reason.
[deleted] · 4 points · Posted at 01:21:25 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Can someone please explain to me how the living FUCK you "translate" a fucking name?
Cataphractoi · 3 points · Posted at 03:07:15 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You try to write a name from one language in another. Unfortunately not all languages share the same set of letters, so you approximate. Repeat with different languages, and you end up with a very distorted name.
Most biblical names are warped thus.
nomad80 · 1 points · Posted at 02:02:02 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Transliteration
Ua_Tsaug · 1 points · Posted at 05:43:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because they have different phonemes. That is to say that not all languages posses the same sounds (ie consonants and vowels). For instance, if you were to look at how a Vietnamese man spells his name in English (and how English speakers would pronounce his name), it would be very different from how he spells and pronounces it in his native tongue. The same applies to those archaic languages. The try to use the best sounds they can to imitate their names, but they're going to be off by a bit.
Kohowch · 4 points · Posted at 04:19:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Just in time for people to learn Yeshua was born closer to Easter than Christmas.
[deleted] · 10 points · Posted at 20:25:22 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Right. Except J is a Y in Hebrew and then there would be a declension of sorts on the end. Hebrew is Yehoshua. Same way Jehovah shouldn't have a J... Well okay actually Jehovah is the english transliteration of a Hebrew tetragram and it should be Yahweh.
My name is the gaelic word for an English word, for a latin word, for a Greek word, for a Hebrew word. Can I win?
gemushka · 1 points · Posted at 21:45:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
What's the name?
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 21:57:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ian. I think technically it's Scottish Gaelic and not regular Gaelic which I think is the Irish Gaelic, but since I'm American it's whatever!
Nadamir · 2 points · Posted at 00:20:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No such language as Irish Gaelic. It's just Irish. And most of the time 'Gaelic' refers to Scottish Gaelic.
Ian is Scottish Gaelic and related to 'John,' but comes from the Irish form.
In Irish it would be Seán (originally Seaghán), although another form of the name is Eoin (pronounced like Owen). Eoin is the form used for John in Irish translations of the Bible.
How Seaghán became Ian is quite fun. When addressing someone in Irish or Scottish Gaelic, you have to lenite the first letter, which is nowadays written by adding an 'h'.
Sometimes lenition changes the sound of the letter. Máire (Mary, but not the Virgin Mary, whose name is Muire), pronounced sort of like Maura becomes Mháire, which is pronounced closer to Vaura. Sometimes, lenition causes the letter to be silent, such as for 's' in Scottish Gaelic. So Seàn (in Scottish Gaelic) becomes Sheain which is pronounced 'Ee-in'.
Also fun fact: the 'fada' changes direction between Scottish Gaelic and Irish. ' á ' with the fada sloping up is Irish, while ' à ' with the fada sloping down is Scottish Gaelic. The Irish (or at least the ones near me) joking call the Scottish fada, the Protestant fada.
Source: Am Irish.
destronger · 1 points · Posted at 01:49:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
as an Irish descendant aren't the Irish and Scots basically the same group of people? i.e. Celtic?
you might be mi familia...
Nadamir · 1 points · Posted at 03:33:36 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hi cousin! There's not an Irish family around that doesn't have relatives in at least three countries.
Celtic describes a larger group of people (the Celts) that covered most of Europe at one point. The Gaels (Gaelic people) are a subset that contains the Irish, the Scottish and the Manx.
And yes, there is a lot of intermingling between the Irish and the Scottish. Especially in the city of Glasgow in Scotland and the province of Ulster, which is made up of all six counties of Northern Ireland, plus three more, where they even have a dialect called Ulster Scots.
But just like you don't get Americans and Canadians or Ozzies and Kiwis confused, for the love of God, never call an Irishman a Scotsman or vice versa.
Ninja edit: Don't RES expand the Celts link, you'll scroll forever...
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 18:49:47 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Came here to boast and learned a lot more than I expected, thanks!
Nadamir · 1 points · Posted at 01:08:09 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
I've too many younger siblings and used to be a teacher. Pedagogue is sort of my default mode. Glad TYL something.
awfulworldkid · 1 points · Posted at 00:01:48 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The name Ian might have a long history, but the name Matthew has been translated into virtually every language. I've yet to find a language that doesn't have it.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 22:28:35 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Do you really think Yehoshua was a more accurate transliteration than Yahushua? What's trustworthy about vowel pointings if they aren't original to Ibrit? There might have been many efforts made to try to cover up the Tetragrammaton. And is there really any transliteration of that which is better than Yahuah?
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 13:05:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus' name in Hebrew is identical to the name of all the other Joshuas in the OT. Yehoshua is how these names are translated, I don't see the need to give Him a different spelling of the name.
All I know of the Yahuah view is that it's based solely on the fact that there is only a daleth difference between that spelling and the one for Judah. The argument is made that the names ought to be similar and so it is pronounced how Judah is pronounced, minus a daleth.
I can't really speak to either account from a linguistic point of view. My languages are Greek and Latin. I took Hebrew for two semesters and then dropped out because I wasn't learning anything and was just getting by on the good graces of the prof. and my ability to memorize the entire study guide.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 03:44:17 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Think Yeho is the result of vowel pointings?
GRat9717 · 3 points · Posted at 20:11:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ah, Hosea ben none.
cat-ninja · 2 points · Posted at 20:58:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Clever
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 21:51:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not to be confused with Yeshua ben Nun.
totallynotarobotnope · 3 points · Posted at 21:58:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I understood the correct name would have been Yeshua Ha'Mashiach, or Deliverer, the anointed one. There were actually many Ha'Mashiach (Saul, David, for example, were anointed as kings)
In Greek manuscripts of the New Testament, "Yeshua" was translated as "Iesous" which was probably pronounced "yay-soos" in ancient Greek. The word "Jesus" then came from an English translation of Greek manuscripts of the New Testament, or Iesu in Latin if the Textus Receptus was used.
The word for "Mashiach" in Greek is "Christos" meaning anointed. This word is usually brought into English as "Christ".
So, just FYI, Jesus Christ is NOT a name. People back then didn't have last names generally. Yeshua would have been his name, a good Hebrew name for a boy. Pretty common too.
Pinkerton932 · 3 points · Posted at 22:45:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Incorrect. They are variations of the same name. This is common in Hebrew.
gunmetalkatana · 3 points · Posted at 22:56:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
TIL: Some people translate proper nouns.
monkeypowah · 1 points · Posted at 23:30:11 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Silly innit...
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:35:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What happens is that you try to write a name from one language in another. Unfortunately not all languages share the same set of letters, so you approximate. Repeat with different languages, and you end up with a very distorted name.
Most biblical names are warped thus.
giverofnofucks · 3 points · Posted at 22:58:11 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Is that true or are you just Jesusing me?
AwesomeJohn01 · 3 points · Posted at 23:16:35 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Where does Biff come in?
Source_Australian · 2 points · Posted at 23:31:37 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
After watching Josh put dead lizards in his mouth.
AwesomeJohn01 · 2 points · Posted at 23:33:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
UNCLEAN! UNCLEAN!
Source_Australian · 2 points · Posted at 23:46:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You fucked a yeti?!
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 23:17:20 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
yeah and Mathew is Mathias in German, still the same name. Or John and Jean Johannes Jehan Ioannis Juan João...
Different languages have the same name "translated".
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:30:57 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Matthew is Matityahu, and John is Yohannan.
Ciddery · 3 points · Posted at 23:34:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeshua
CaptainAchilles · 3 points · Posted at 23:52:03 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
All hail the KING Yeshua, Jesus, Lord and Savior!
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 01:01:55 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeshua, not Joshua.
thefermentress · 3 points · Posted at 01:20:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well my brother's name is Joshua. I'm not telling him about this. He already thinks he's god. And we don't need to add any more fuel to that flame.
SVMESSEFVIFVTVRVS · 3 points · Posted at 01:28:25 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Fun fact: Christ means messiah in ancient Greek!
Valianttheywere · 3 points · Posted at 01:34:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I love the pictographic qualities of the lettering. There are obviously people on a boat.
spamshampoo · 1 points · Posted at 02:30:39 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
If you are interested in Jesus and the ancient Hebrew pictographs check out this video. It's a little bit boring at the outset, but it gets good. It's an hour and a half long. https://youtu.be/-U-stVyGakQ Edit:pictograhs start being discussed at 9:30 time stamp
AUniquePerspective · 3 points · Posted at 01:35:16 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh my Josh. I thought this was common knowledge.
FPSplayer · 3 points · Posted at 01:54:33 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So where did Hey Zeus come from?
Cataphractoi · 2 points · Posted at 03:04:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hera was feeling particularly chill that day.
ReallyGene · 3 points · Posted at 03:42:15 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Thanks to the Greeks, many of the most popular names from the Old Testament are pronounced wrong in English. Mostly, this was due to confusion about 'B' vs. 'V' (which are very similar characters in Aramaic and Hebrew), and i/j vs y.
So, 'Rebecca' (R-B-K-A) would be 'Rivka' (R-V-K-A)
'Abraham' --> 'Avraham'
'Isaac' --> 'Yitzak'
'Jacob' --> 'Yakov'
'David' --> 'Daoud' (another letter that is a consonant 'V' can also be read as a vowel 'ooh' sound)
Dresslerj1 · 3 points · Posted at 04:03:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm Jewish and speak hebrew. There are several pronunciations... Yuh - ho -shia Yuh - ho - shua Yuh - show - ah
Some Jews say "Yashka"
Which is Yiddish
Iam_MittRomney · 3 points · Posted at 04:11:18 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
My name is Joshua. I need to change how i live.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 04:38:49 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Username does not check out.
Iam_MittRomney · 2 points · Posted at 04:41:57 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I know between my binders and my stance on climate change. I think it's time i start living up to my other name
JEWCEY · 3 points · Posted at 23:03:24 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Your savior's name is a misnomer" is literally the most worthless information you can give a religious person. As a writer, and a Jew, I love the irony. My bad, Christians. Too soon?
Cataphractoi · 2 points · Posted at 03:33:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wait until you get to the part about his mother...
JEWCEY · 1 points · Posted at 18:00:53 on December 11, 2016 · (Permalink)
All the downvotes I've received are probably people who don't know what misnomer means. So I'm still feeling the irony.
huscarlaxe · 1 points · Posted at 23:09:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
At least we know the vowels in our name for the creator. :P
-Mountain-King- · 11 points · Posted at 16:55:11 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah, his name would really have been Yeshua. Which means savior. Christ also means savior. Savior Savior.
cfmonkey45 · 44 points · Posted at 17:16:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, Yeshua means "God Saves," while Christ is from Greek, meaning "Christos," or "Anointed One," which is the translation of Messiah. "God Saves, the Messiah."
Legally, he would have been known as Yeshua ben Yosef, or Joshua son of Joseph.
daoudalqasir · 5 points · Posted at 21:12:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
in aramaic it would be Bar Yosef not ben.
ViralFirefly · 1 points · Posted at 21:58:50 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
He was Yeshua ben Yosef in the Kushiel's Dart series. Excellent books.
kazoodude · 1 points · Posted at 00:57:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
*Yeshua ben Yahweh, or Joshua son of God. Ftfy. Joseph was his mum's husband, God was his Father.
cfmonkey45 · 1 points · Posted at 01:03:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
His LEGAL name according to the Gospels of Luke and Matthew.
DavidFrattenBro · 1 points · Posted at 03:26:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeshua = salvation
Yehoshua = God saves
heliotach712 · 1 points · Posted at 20:18:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
He was called Yeshua in the Master and Margarita.
[deleted] · 20 points · Posted at 17:44:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
In "Jesus Christ", Christ is NOT the last name, it is a title or appointment. As in, "Jesus, the Christ". People have just become very sloppy with it over time.
[deleted] · 17 points · Posted at 18:57:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
Makropony · 1 points · Posted at 08:20:36 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Vader, the Darth?
pgm123 · 2 points · Posted at 21:01:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The opposite of Smokey Bear.
Anrza · 1 points · Posted at 22:08:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's probably just because ancient Greek and Latin aren't big fans of articles (the).
[deleted] · 7 points · Posted at 19:44:20 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeshua is aramaic, Yehoshua is the correct hebrew, they are related languages, the yeshua name is well known because Mel gibson used Aramaic in the Passion of the Christ movie.
elev57 · 5 points · Posted at 20:39:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Aramaic was the spoken language of the region at the time. Hebrew was a liturgical language. He might have been named Yehoshua rather than Yeshua as people did at that time us biblical names as well, but speaking Aramaic is historically accurate.
[deleted] · 0 points · Posted at 20:44:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
See my other post above the one you responded to.
[deleted] · -1 points · Posted at 22:01:31 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Which is important when portraying events that may or may not have happened.
OrganicMicroscopes · 2 points · Posted at 22:24:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Do you really think Yehoshua was a more accurate transliteration than Yahushua? What's trustworthy about vowel pointings if they aren't original to Ibrit? There might have been many efforts made to try to cover up the Tetragrammaton.
HughGnu · 1 points · Posted at 23:39:25 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That doesn't sound right, but I don't know enough about Tetragrammatons to dispute it.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 00:13:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton#Verbal_prohibitions
HughGnu · 1 points · Posted at 00:18:18 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Neat. I was just riffing an It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia meme.
thr33beggars · 2 points · Posted at 17:36:24 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So Jesus was also a Moon-moon
WiscoMitch · 1 points · Posted at 18:22:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Kind of like Mario Mario!
[deleted] · -2 points · Posted at 17:23:54 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
ikonoqlast · 10 points · Posted at 19:47:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Haploid.
adjective 1. (of a cell or nucleus) having a single set of unpaired chromosomes.
84Dublicious · 3 points · Posted at 04:32:19 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Harold. Harold be thy name.
Marcusaralius76 · 2 points · Posted at 17:34:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
How bout 'Holy'
Joey__stalin · 1 points · Posted at 02:57:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
How I always pronounce it
mastachaos · 2 points · Posted at 19:45:28 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
so where does "Emmanuel" fit into all of this?
[deleted] · 5 points · Posted at 20:27:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
From Matthew quoting the Old Testament prophet Isaiah.
“But after he had considered these things, an angel of the Lord suddenly appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, don’t be afraid to take Mary as your wife, because what has been conceived in her is by the Holy Spirit. She will give birth to a son, and you are to name Him Jesus, because He will save His people from their sins.” Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet: See, the virgin will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and they will name Him Immanuel, which is translated “God is with us.”” Matthew 1:20-23 HCSB
“Therefore, the Lord Himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive, have a son, and name him Immanuel.” Isaiah 7:14 HCSB
choochoomarktwain · -1 points · Posted at 20:37:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Which leads to another fucked up thing.
In the Greek translation of the Jewish Torah that Christianity was founded on, "alma" was translated into virgin. It was a messed up translation.
The actual Hebrew was means young woman. It stuck so then the narrative of the virgin birth thing came from a typo.
[deleted] · 5 points · Posted at 21:06:36 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not exactly. Alma does mean young woman, but in the culture, especially with the Old Covenant law against premarital sex, a young woman of marriageable age was expected to be a virgin. Ancient Hebrew (as far as I'm aware) did not have a precise, "clinical" word for virgin like we do. Greek did however, and the Septuagint (the Greek OT you spoke of) translators used the precise Greek word for virgin in Isaiah. However they didn't just make that up, they pulled on rabbinic tradition that was already in existence that there would be a literal virgin birth.
choochoomarktwain · 2 points · Posted at 21:15:14 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
"The word alma appears in the Jewish Scriptures seven times in the feminine and twice in the masculine. If even one reference refers to a woman who is clearly not a virgin, then Matthew’s rendition of Isaiah 7:14 becomes untenable.
One of the places where the uncommon Hebrew word almah appears in the Bible is in the Book of Proverbs.
The word “proverb” means “to be like,” thus Proverbs is a book of comparisons between common, concrete images and life’s most profound truths. Proverbs are simple, moral statements (or illustrations) that highlight and teach fundamental realities about life. In the following passage, King Solomon presents the following vivid analogy:
"There are three things which are too wonderful for me, for which I do not understand: 19the way of an eagle in the sky, the way of a serpent on a rock, the way of a ship in the middle of the sea, and the way of a man with a young woman [b’almah][/b’almah]. 20This is the way of an adulterous woman: she eats and wipes her mouth, and says, “I have done no wrong.” (Proverbs 30:18-20)
King Solomon declares that once a man has been sexually intimate with an almah, i.e. a young woman, no trace of sexual intercourse is visible, unlike a virgin who will leave behind a discharge of blood after her hymen is broken.
Therefore, in the following verse (Proverbs 30:20) King Solomon explains that once this adulterous woman “eats” (a metaphor for her fornication), she removes the trace of her sexual infidelity, “wipes her mouth, and says, ‘I have done no wrong.’” The word alma clearly does not mean a virgin.
In the Hebrew languagethere is no relationship between the words almah and virgin. On the contrary, it is usually a young woman who bears children. The word alma only conveys age/gender. Had Isaiah wished to speak about a virgin, he would have used the word betulah1 (בְּתוּלָה) not almah. The word betulah appears frequently in the Jewish Scriptures, and is the only word – in both biblical and modern Hebrew – that conveys sexual purity.
Moreover, as mentioned earlier, the masculine form of the noun עַלְמָה (alma) is עֶלֶם (elem), which means a “young man,” not a male virgin. This word appears twice in the Jewish Scriptures (I Samuel 17:56, 20:22). As expected, without exception, all Christian Bibles correctly translate עֶלֶם as a “young man,” “lad,” or “stripling,” never “virgin.” Why does theKing James Version of the Bible translate the masculine Hebrew noun לָעֶלֶם (la’elem) as “to the young man” in I Samuel 20:22, and yet the feminine form of the same Hebrew noun הָעַלְמָה as “a virgin” in Isaiah 7:14? The answer is Christian Bibles had no need to mistranslate I Samuel 20:22 because this verse was not misquoted in the New Testament."
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 21:46:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, you would actually have to prove the opposite. That NO reference can be interpreted as virgin. The whole argument isn't that the word itself means virgin, as in the precise term used to describe someone whose never had sex, but instead that the implication is that it can mean such a person. This is clearly the case in Gen 24:43, Ex 2:8 at least.
I disagree with your exegesis here (assuming you are Rabbi Singer). I do not believe that Proverbs 30:20 is connected to verses 18-19. As you said, the Proverbs are simple, moral statements which are often very disconnected from one another. Verses 18-19 are one proverb, while verse 20 is a separate, distinct proverb. Otherwise it wouldn't make any sense for Solomon to consider an adulterous woman covering up her affair as being "wonderful." verse 18 also restricts the proverb to 4 items or situations: the flying eagle, the sunning snake, a sailing ship, and a young couple in love. Verse 20, if connected, would introduce a 5th - the adulterous woman. Since verse 19 uses alma and verse 20 does not, this doesn't support your conclusion.
There is no reason to limit Isaiah to betulah if he meant to convey virgin. Obviously alma can mean virgin as other texts show. Also Joel 1:8 indicates the betulah doesn't necessarily mean a virgin, since it there refers to a married woman. Technically it could be a woman who is married but yet to consummate but that's arguing from silence.
Both verses, however, are talking about someone who is a "youth" or a "boy." Again someone highly unlikely to be sexually active, especially considering the law.
choochoomarktwain · 1 points · Posted at 22:00:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The translators concluded 100% that it meant virgin. In Judaism the idea that the Messiah would be born from a virgin is non-existent.
This idea that humans can be fathered by Gods is a Greek/Roman philosophy. Zeus fathered many children like that so it's logical that the Gospels trying to cater to Romans would utilize that language and philosophies that were understood by those people and the Pagan religions they had been practicing already.
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 22:12:59 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Just as the translators of the Septuagint concluded that Isaiah's use of alma intended a virgin. I'm not actually opposed to translating it as young woman in Isaiah, but clearly the New Testament writers, and the Septuagint translators thought virgin was appropriate.
Today, sure. There was a tradition before Jesus that was expecting a virgin born messiah. Unfortunately I don't have the source for that, just trying to remember off the top of my head. Sorry.
I'm sorry, but to try and parallel the unique New Testament virgin birth, with Zeus' regularly seducing and raping women is just laughable. The NT writers did not try to cater to Romans. The earliest Christians were trying to covert Jews, so the last thing they would ever want to do is try to appeal to Gentiles. If you take a later date for the composition of the NT books, then the church is under persecution by the Romans during their writing, so again there is absolutely no reason for them to try and copy Roman religion. Further, there is significant anti-imperial, anti-paganism language throughout the New Testament. It simply doesn't make sense.
choochoomarktwain · 1 points · Posted at 22:21:23 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
What doesn't make sense is that the Romans crucified him but the Jews were the ones who were blamed and turned into the scapegoats.
I'm just saying that it's obviously meant to cater to a Greek audience since it was written in Greek. So when translating they are going to use terms and language that resonate with Greek audiences.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 23:05:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm not really sure what you're referring to, or how exactly it's relevant. If you mean in the New Testament, then the blame is pretty evenly spread around between the Romans and the Jews. Both were at fault. Of course, the references are to the Roman and Jewish authorities not the groups as a whole. If you mean latter on in the anti-semitism that developed in the middle Ages, that was and continues to be wrong.
Not necessarily. We don't assume something written in English is intended to appeal to residents of England. Greek was the lingua franca of the empire and it makes sense that the NT was written in it so as to be read by the most amount of people. That doesn't mean that they copied Roman or Greek religion, and it certainly doesn't mean that the virgin birth is somehow parallel to Zeus' sexual escapades.
choochoomarktwain · 0 points · Posted at 23:16:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The idea that a God impregnates women was foreign to the Jewish religion.
There are so many oddities in Christianity that more closely mirror Greek life than Jewish life: being able to consume a God, God's impregnating humans to create demi-Gods, obviously the language the Gospel was written in, the growth of Satan as a person (Hades), the holy trinity (a play off of having multiple Gods), the depiction of Gods in statues and paintings (strictly prohibited in Judaism), etc.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:11:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Well yeah it would be foreign to Judaism. Nothing like the incarnation had ever happened before. That doesn't mean though that it somehow parallels the Greek myths. That said there are Old Testament types and prophecy which looking back we can see pointed to or foretold of the Incarnation.
As for the rest of your comment, you're really just grasping at straws: There is nothing in the New Testament about "consuming a God". That is a medieval Romish invention which all Protestants reject. "Gods impregnating to create Demi-gods" is also not in the New Testament as Jesus is not considered a Demi God, further the virgin birth and Mary's impregnation are completely unique. Almost everything important was written in Greek so that's a non argument. Satan was seen as personal in the OT (Especially in Job). The Trinity is not multiple gods nor an accommodation to polytheism. Christianity, and the New Testament, is strictly monotheistic. Finally, the depiction of God in images and statues is not promoted in the NT and while many sects have compromised on this, many haven't and still reject the use of images in worship.
choochoomarktwain · 1 points · Posted at 01:04:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
" "Gods impregnating to create Demi-gods" is also not in the New Testament as Jesus is not considered a Demi God"
God or Demi-God. And to different Christians he is.
" further the virgin birth and Mary's impregnation are completely unique"
Right. But notice how in the first Gospel there was no mention of the virgin birth. They only introduce it in later Gospels.
"The Trinity is not multiple gods nor an accommodation to polytheism"
In Judaism there is only one God. Christianity didn't know whether Jesus was God or not, which is why they eventually had to vote on it at the Counsel of Nicea. The trinity cannot be resolved with Judaism. Not sure what you're talking about.
"Finally, the depiction of God in images and statues is not promoted in the NT and while many sects have compromised on this, many haven't and still reject the use of images in worship."
The overwhelming majority do. Look at the interior of the Vatican.
pgm123 · 3 points · Posted at 21:03:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I believe the actual Hebrew of the time could refer to both. Either way, Mary was a young woman.
choochoomarktwain · 0 points · Posted at 21:16:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's correct. I left a copy of a full analysis in the thread if you're interested in reading more about why it cannot mean virgin.
pgm123 · 1 points · Posted at 21:23:15 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Link me? This is getting long.
choochoomarktwain · 1 points · Posted at 21:24:09 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/5h7pti/til_jesus_name_translated_from_hebrew_to_english/daygcy1/?st=iwgvffot&sh=53f5c67d
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 08:04:58 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Isn't it apparent that Jews before the first century thought a virgin was referred to if the LXX uses παρθένος?
choochoomarktwain · 1 points · Posted at 19:13:34 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
No because there is the Hebrew word for virgin and they chose young woman.
Additionally, before the dead sea scrolls one could argue that perhaps the Masoretic text was changed, but the dead sea scrolls (and I verified this myself) use the word for young woman and not virgin.
Of course a young woman was most likely a virgin, but that's the danger of relying on Greek interpretations because they assume things.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 22:00:13 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Did you say the Masoretic Text and mean the LXX?
How many places is H5959 even found in the Tanakh? Seven total? Genesis 24:23, Exodus 2:8, Psalm 68:25, Proverbs 30:19, Song of Songs 1:3 & 6:8, and Isaiah 7:14? Those might all refer to an unmarried virgin. If it stems from H5956 through H5958 and that's referred to below, then what does that suggest is meant?
"A primitive root; to veil from sight, that is, conceal (literally or figuratively):— X any ways, blind, dissembler, hide (self), secret (thing)." -http://lexiconcordance.com/hebrew/5956.html
Bethulah or H1330 might actually be more ambiguous than almah or H5956 is when it comes to what refers to a virgin. Consider Joel 1:8 if the former is used there? When is a married woman or a widow also a virgin?
"1:8 Lament like a virgin girded with sackcloth for the husband of her youth." -Joel 1:8 (RNKJV)
Fochinell · 0 points · Posted at 22:33:09 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
/u/choochoomarktwain is accurate.
בתולה (b'tulah, betulah) is the Hebrew noun for 'virgin'. The Christian church has since it's founding interpreted עלמה (alma, almah; 'young woman') and every instance of it in Torah, Nevi'im, and Ketuvim -- 'TaNaKh', the Hebrew 'bible' -- to mean 'virgin'.
The Christian church founders didn't seem very interested in a likewise interpretative enforcement of the masculine form of עלם (elem; 'young man') as somehow virginal though they interpreted 'Elem' in it's proper manner every place they've used it.
Whomever it was in the Eastern Byzantine Roman Orthodox church who decided on this curious interpretation is long lost to antiquity.
Mister-builder · 0 points · Posted at 03:44:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ironically, the Isaiah quote is mistranslated. The original quote is "The young woman will conceive."
SolDarkHunter · 4 points · Posted at 20:32:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Emmanuel is the name the prophet Isaiah used in his prophecy regarding the coming of the Messiah. It means "God is with us".
Matthew (the gospel writer) was aware of this discrepancy and dedicated some of his account to explaining why Jesus fulfills the prophecy despite this difference.
Owyheemud · -1 points · Posted at 20:34:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Last I saw, she was in Rio.
SanguinePar · -2 points · Posted at 20:27:55 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
1970s cinema.
IDoNotAgreeWithYou · 2 points · Posted at 21:20:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't understand how names can be translated anyway. Shouldn't they all be literal and not change pronunciation through translation?
OrganicMicroscopes · 2 points · Posted at 22:36:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
What if you have a great point and names should be transliterated instead of translated. There might be demons who don't want people to know some names.
Astramancer_ · 1 points · Posted at 21:31:25 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You're generally not supposed to translate names, but I don't know how old that convention is.
This case is probably more of a matter of phonetics rather than direct translation issues. Different languages have different sounds - like how Japanese people have problems with "L"s as we hear it. They just don't have the same sound in their language, so they have a hard time distinguishing it from it's closest sound, but we have a really easy time picking up the incorrect pronunciation.
So the phonetic shifts from hebrew to greek to latin to english would account for the differences.
It's like when you keep throwing translations of translations between language families through a mechanical translator like Google Translate. Usually the gist of the original word/phrase gets through, but it gets mangled.
Ua_Tsaug · 1 points · Posted at 05:51:29 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because they have different phonemes. That is to say that not all languages posses the same sounds (ie consonants and vowels). For instance, if you were to look at how a Vietnamese man spells his name in English (and how English speakers would pronounce his name), it would be very different from how he spells and pronounces it in his native tongue. The same applies to those archaic languages. The try to use the best sounds they can to imitate their names, but they're going to be off by a bit.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 21:26:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus...
bijhan · 2 points · Posted at 21:31:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Romans would have called him something similar to "YAY-sooz"
JoshSellsGuns · 2 points · Posted at 21:48:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hey my name is Joshua. I'm Jesus confirmed?
hayategekko · 2 points · Posted at 21:51:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Same with most Jewish names from the Bible. Jude/Judas = Judah = Yehudah Simon Peter = Cpheas (Rock in Aramaic) = Petros (Rock in Greek)
Shoninjv · 2 points · Posted at 21:52:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
' Christ, Jesus Christ, son of God, and you?'
' Pilate, Pontius Pilate, son...'
' ...of a bitch!!! '
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 21:55:03 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Fun Fact: There is no J in Hebrew.
jvh_894 · 2 points · Posted at 22:00:12 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
TIL my name is like a knock-off Jesus.
quinewave · 2 points · Posted at 22:02:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Joshua of Joseph? So he really was the first JoJo
morrock14 · 2 points · Posted at 22:04:11 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's right, he was named Joshua ben Miriam. Christ is not his last name, it just means someone poured oil on him.
destronger · 1 points · Posted at 02:08:56 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
he wouldn't have been call son of Mary in his day. Jews were a patriarchal not matriarchal society. Yeshua would have been called son of David due to his lineage or son of joseph
morrock14 · 1 points · Posted at 03:19:12 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I am thinking of the Mishnah. Whatever. This post is relevant as it underlines how most Christians now nothing about Christian history, because they have no interest in objective history about their religion. I spent a decade studying this shit, and I am not a Christian.
jonwillyum · 2 points · Posted at 22:06:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
But in the Latin alphabet, Jehovah begins with and "I"!
ProPopori · 2 points · Posted at 22:38:03 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think it's actually Jeshua
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 22:56:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Arabic it's Esa
-Scathe- · 2 points · Posted at 22:56:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So, I haven't been saying the lord's name in vain this whole time?! Hell yeah!
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 22:57:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:35:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
She also was never called 'virgin'.
Jrramirez298 · 2 points · Posted at 22:59:37 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Man 1:...But its Joshua sir
Man 2: not if i tanslate it from Greek to Latin to English
FredWestLife · 2 points · Posted at 23:04:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Shall we play a game?
EframTheRabbit · 2 points · Posted at 23:09:59 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Can someone please post the different variations of the Navy Seal copy pasta? To me it represents the craziness of literally interpreting something in the Bible. I'm not making an critiques concerning the messages or stories in the Bible, but when someone goes in a interprets it by the literal word, it's ridiculous!
Jharakn · 2 points · Posted at 23:19:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Arghh idiot! in Latin, Jehovah starts with an I"
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 23:20:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
How could you, Neku?
bigdickbandit6636 · 2 points · Posted at 23:29:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Quite honestly says a lot about the religion
DeadPresidentJFK · 2 points · Posted at 23:31:03 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Still "Jebus" in my book!
OmicronPerseiNothing · 2 points · Posted at 23:40:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
His friends call him Josh.
Sessamy · 2 points · Posted at 23:55:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Maranatha.
"2 John 1:7"
“For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.”
If you have a version that's not the King James Bible (see textus receptus vs nestles text; the vatican is the mystery babylon whore in Revelation 17), that verse is most likely changed or removed. The roman catholics change the word of God (and the Word in many cases - lowercase always means the written word and capital Word always means Jesus Christ) - look at the final chapter of Revelation to what happens to people who add or take away from the word of God. Look up Acts 8:37 for example. It's either removed or footnoted as "not part of the 'inspired text'". The King James bible (printed from the right sources such as http://localchurchbiblepublishers.com/bibles/ they don't make profit because of England's laws on the KJV) has never been edited since it was finished in 1611.
Look up Acts 8:37 for example. It's either removed or footnoted as "not part of the 'inspired text'". What does it say? "...I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." The vatican doesn't believe that, so they removed that.
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-22-18_22-21/
"18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen."
Check these out about the bible version issue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLX7ob9A6w4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lshDQZdbIuM
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:24:44 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
?
Sessamy · 1 points · Posted at 16:03:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
google it and then read "2 John 1:7"
“For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.”
If you have a version that's not the King James Bible (see textus receptus vs nestles text; the vatican is the mystery babylon whore in Revelation 17), that verse is most likely changed or removed. The roman catholics change the word of God (and the Word in many cases - lowercase always means the written word and capital Word always means Jesus Christ) - look at the final chapter of Revelation to what happens to people who add or take away from the word of God. Look up Acts 8:37 for example. It's either removed or footnoted as "not part of the 'inspired text'". The King James bible (printed from the right sources such as http://localchurchbiblepublishers.com/bibles/ they don't make profit because of England's laws on the KJV) has never been edited since it was finished in 1611.
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-22-18_22-21/
"18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen."
Check these out about the bible version issue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLX7ob9A6w4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lshDQZdbIuM
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 00:26:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I just want to point this out.
Your name has a meaning. And many countries have names with those meanings. In this way we can see what other equivalent names are.
I've heard Ivan is the Russian form of Jonathan. But we don't call him Jonathan when he comes to our country. His name is still Ivan.
Cataphractoi · 0 points · Posted at 03:16:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Except with many historical people we don't use their actual names, but equivalents.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 14:08:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
To Westernized history
neugo · 2 points · Posted at 00:38:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Next you'll be telling me Jesus wasn't caucasian!...
Kaneshadow · 2 points · Posted at 00:54:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
being a catholic kid is confusing as fuck. I'm 35 and I STILL don't know who Hosana is, or why he's the highest.
Psyqlone · 2 points · Posted at 00:59:26 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Y'shua ben Joseph would've been kinda close. ... I can't cite a source just now.
The word Christ is derived from the Greek Χριστός (Christos), which is a translation of the Hebrew משיח (Meshiakh), meaning the "anointed" and usually transliterated into English as "Messiah".
JoziJoller · 2 points · Posted at 01:00:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Or to be precise, Yoshua Ben Yosef ha Levi. Joshua, son of Joseph the Levi. (Levi being the tribe, the warrior priests who guarded the temple). Tribe still around today, I am one of them.
1980sumthing · 2 points · Posted at 01:09:18 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
did you know that EESA (arabic name) is like YESHUA if you pronounced it correctly? YEEE (EEEE) S (s) HUA (huA) = EESA / ISA
if you dont say it as SH then it is practically identical with the current name for jesus in arabic.
Nimbus12345 · 1 points · Posted at 12:31:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not really, in arabic its عيسى. The first litter 'ayn doesn't have an English equivalent.
Also in Hebrew it wasn't yes-hua, it was yesh-ua, with a sh sound not an s sound. We know this because they're different letters in Hebrew.
In fact, the arabic name is probably more similar to the Greek transliteration than the Hebrew.
The_Truthkeeper · 0 points · Posted at 01:15:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What does Arabic have to do with anything?
1980sumthing · 1 points · Posted at 01:51:18 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
they have been saying yeshua all along, without the sh sound. And it is identical with the name ESA/ISA the name for jesus. ISA = Yeshua
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:08:08 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Islam also sees Jesus as a prophet. He is very important to that religion. Arabic is the language of Islam.
SvenDia · 2 points · Posted at 05:34:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
True, Jesus (or Isa ibn Maryam) is mentioned more times in the Quran than Mohammed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam If you want a true mind fuck, read what ISIS have to say about Jesus.
The_Truthkeeper · 1 points · Posted at 03:36:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes, but we're talking about how a word is pronounced after being translated through three other languages compared to the original. It's pronunciation in an unrelated language has... nothing to do with that.
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:38:44 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Actually this post is entirely about how a name was mistranscribed through languages. It is thus relevant to bring another example of the same name for comparison.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 01:28:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Josh Christ seems like a hip fella
ChaosWolf1982 · 2 points · Posted at 01:30:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Cool, I'm just a few translations away from being Jesus.
Spongman · 2 points · Posted at 01:32:08 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hebrew? Aramaic, surely.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 03:18:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Both, actually. While Hebrew wasn't used as a mean language back then, it was still retained in many personal names.
castiglione_99 · 2 points · Posted at 01:32:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The bible is the world's first game of telephone.
ScotHibb · 2 points · Posted at 01:44:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Today I found Jesus! He helped me with my paint at Home Depot...
B3r43 · 2 points · Posted at 01:46:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Joshua fucking Christ
Sp4nkyMacD · 2 points · Posted at 01:54:33 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Very late to the party but I read pretty far down and didn't see anyone cover this. Jesus is a westernized form of the Greek transliteration of Yeshua or Yahushua. Follow along... Transliteration is trying to phonetically recreate a name or word into another language. Yeshua is a Hebrew word. The new testament authors used Greek because it was the universal language at the time. Making Yeshua's name in Greek letters is hard. There is no "y" sound in Greek! How do you imitate that sound "I&E" right next to each other. I sounds like a long E, as in bee. E sounds like A as in bay. Say "EeeAy" quickly and you create a "Y" sound. The middle kind of works and then throw an "S" on the end because all male Greek names ended in S.
Eventually we anglicize the "i" that was a transliteration tool into its own letter. Now we call Him Jesus...
johnknoefler · 2 points · Posted at 03:03:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You are maybe the one person on reddit that actually has a clue.
Shishkahuben · 2 points · Posted at 02:13:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Joshua bar (son of) Joseph
The first JoJo.
phlofy · 2 points · Posted at 02:19:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
And Mary's was Myriam
Seattlehepcat · 2 points · Posted at 02:20:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
We translate it further in Spanish to get our gardener's name.
Bad_at_CSGO · 2 points · Posted at 02:21:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
More "Yeshua" but yeah
Indy-in-in · 2 points · Posted at 02:22:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Can you imagine Joshua up there in heaven shaking his head at all the English speaking folks constantly fucking up his name?
Southyy · 2 points · Posted at 02:24:53 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
My name is Joshua, does that mean I'm Jesus?
analoveschocolate · 2 points · Posted at 02:34:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus, that sounds like a lot of trouble to go through.
beaucannon1234 · 2 points · Posted at 02:45:55 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
But wait, didn't it originally come from Aramaic?
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:00:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm not certain, but Hebrew and Aramaic are very similar. Also the main language of the area was Hebrew, although Aramaic was widely spoken.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 03:09:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Actually, Hebrew wasn't used as a language (other than in specific literature or liturgy) from 2 BC and until the 19th century. Aramaic was employed back in Jesus' day.
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:42:43 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This is true, although Jews steadily used Hebrew more and Aramaic less after the Diaspora began after the Bar-Kokhba revolt in about 130. Armenia adopted Christianity later (becoming the first state to do so), but was there a large Aramaic speaking population in the area in the intervening period?
ZealousVisionary · 1 points · Posted at 03:07:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
They are very close with a few subtle changes in Aramaic from Hebrew.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 02:46:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So how would His name sound when spoken out loud back then?
johnknoefler · 2 points · Posted at 02:55:24 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yehoshua. Means, I am salvation.
MajorTom11 · 2 points · Posted at 02:52:33 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's ok, he knows who you mean.
spongue · 2 points · Posted at 02:57:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Something about singing majestic worship songs like "His name is Josh! Precious Josh!" just didn't work the same
Mastadave2999 · 2 points · Posted at 03:30:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
There's a verse in the New Testament book of Hebrews that refers to him as Joshua in most English translations.
See Hebrews 4:8
Gman777 · 2 points · Posted at 03:35:39 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wasn't his name in Aramaic or something other than Hebrew?
DanieleB · 3 points · Posted at 03:38:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes, Aramaic. Yeshua
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 03:49:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well the bible was originally Aramaic, so you'd have to translate it from that...
SvenDia · 1 points · Posted at 04:59:47 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
New Testament was most likely Greek originally. But we don't know for sure because none of the original manuscripts exist.
ABucketFull · 2 points · Posted at 03:53:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What if Josh was one of us?
botness · 2 points · Posted at 04:21:36 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Joshua Christ, are you kidding me?!?
ballzdeepe · 1 points · Posted at 04:24:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
His name is my name too!
botness · 1 points · Posted at 14:47:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Whenever I go out, the people always shout...
SvenDia · 2 points · Posted at 05:03:36 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Here's the real kicker. Muslims believe Jesus will defeat Satan in the war of Armageddon. Muslims were like the Mormons only 1200 years earlier.
aohige_rd · 2 points · Posted at 05:06:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Huh.
I thought this was common knowledge tbh. But that might be because my father was a preacher.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 07:29:15 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Josh
SchwettyBawls · 2 points · Posted at 12:17:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No one ever believes me when I tell them this. They always think that I'm just Joshing them.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 17:56:55 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Lazarus is Osiris spoken with a French accent.
jinreeko · 5 points · Posted at 20:59:12 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
In my experience, however, Joshuas are always dickheads.
Source: am named Joshua
Innalibra · 5 points · Posted at 22:01:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Am also named Joshua and I've also never met a Joshua who wasn't a dickhead.
duraiden · 3 points · Posted at 22:03:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Another Joshua here, I can confirm that all Joshua's are pretty much garbage humans.
AsinineBinkie · 1 points · Posted at 00:10:16 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Also am Joshua. Completely agree. All Joshuas are just the worse.
Innalibra · 1 points · Posted at 23:15:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's like we all think we're the second coming of Christ. Horrible, self-absorbed people.
destronger · 1 points · Posted at 02:00:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I agree... have a brother with this name.
joshynet · 2 points · Posted at 23:26:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I disagree. Im probably more of a 70, 30 split.
lucasgorski99 · 3 points · Posted at 19:53:31 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
so you're telling me that if I translate Jesus to latin (Iesu) then to greek (Ιησούς) then to Hebrew (ישו)
Jesus translated to latin then greek then Hebrew should then give us the Hebrew name for Jesus. So if we translate that back to English we should get Joshua right?
I get Jesus again.
pgm123 · 2 points · Posted at 21:04:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You have to use Aramaic as a stepping stone.
Anrza · 1 points · Posted at 22:01:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Iesus*. Iesu is an inflected form of Iesus.
Are you using Google translate or something? Then you're bound to get a bad translation.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 22:10:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Can we just transliterate an original Name into English?
sultanpeppah · 5 points · Posted at 23:15:57 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So it's not weird that people name their kids Jesus, it's weird that so many people worship someone named Josh. I wouldn't trust directions to the bathroom from a Josh, let alone directions to Heaven.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 04:19:08 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's name racism right there.
sultanpeppah · 1 points · Posted at 18:32:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Look, I don't hate all Joshes. Some of my best friends are Joshes! I'm just sick and tired of them coming in and steal jobs from all of our Keiths.
Also Duncan is the Master Name.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 02:48:34 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
I thought the master name was Kevin... or maybe Dwight.
sultanpeppah · 1 points · Posted at 05:35:42 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
You goddamn heretic. You must be a fucking George.
TheKillersVanilla · 3 points · Posted at 01:30:15 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Remember everyone: every word of your English translation of this text is LITERALLY true. Except for the name of the main character. That part got completely messed up. Not even close to what it used to be.
But the rest obviously must be the inerrant word of God.
Desi_Casanova · 5 points · Posted at 22:53:54 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
These charts will clear doubts about his name, and in simpler terms it means 'Savior'. That's one of the reason why I think Jesus is more likely a figure of myth not of history, I mean the name is just too convenient.
balrogwarrior · 1 points · Posted at 23:42:50 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Unless God, you know, told his mother to name him that...
nomad80 · 1 points · Posted at 01:55:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The connection between those links and the thoughts you wish to hold on to, is tenuous at best
AdamWrigley · 2 points · Posted at 20:26:37 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
QI
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 22:30:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Quantum Immortality?
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 04:07:02 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I thought it was "quite interesting".
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 04:21:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Thanks.
AdamWrigley · 1 points · Posted at 16:11:53 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
As in the TV programme
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 04:11:05 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hmm?
AdamWrigley · 1 points · Posted at 10:30:39 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
QI the programme
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 11:25:27 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Is that a show that suggested Christ had a Name similar to Joshua?
AdamWrigley · 2 points · Posted at 12:15:06 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes. About 5 years ago
Lupoviridae · 2 points · Posted at 20:43:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Another fun fact: the Hebrew 'Joshua' comes from old Hebrew 'YahwehShua', meaning "Son of Yahweh"
Yahwehshua --> Joshua --> Jeshua --> Jesua --> Jesus
dis_is_my_account · 1 points · Posted at 22:23:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
ANOTHER ONE: The real word for God in Judaism was rarely spoken because it was too holy so they said Yahweh instead and now we have no idea what the original word was.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 22:31:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
You sure yod-heh-waw-heh-shiyn-ayin was really ever closer than yod-heh-waw-shiyn-ayin? The later might be as original as you will find. Zechariah 6:11-13.
Soy7ent · 0 points · Posted at 21:02:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hodor
Jefethevol · 2 points · Posted at 20:45:55 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Mel Gipsons Passion of the Christ is in aramaic and they pronounce his names "yeshua". When you say Hebrew do you mean Aramaic?
[deleted] · 6 points · Posted at 21:49:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
If I'm not mistaken, Hebrew children were given Hebrew names. Aramaic was the language of conversation.
Jefethevol · 1 points · Posted at 22:28:28 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Makes sense. Thank you
--AJ-- · 2 points · Posted at 20:52:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Don't matter. If facts about most other things in the world won't ever matter, this doesn't either. It's "not how mama raised em".
orenog · 2 points · Posted at 22:31:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
חחח קוראים לי בסקייפ יהושוע צימחי, שם בדוי כזה
nickdaisy · 2 points · Posted at 23:07:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Why don't white people ever name their kids Jesus? It's only the Mexicans. I think it's because he was a carpenter. I bet if Jesus had been a dentist there'd be lots of little white Jesuses running around.
imthewiseguy · 2 points · Posted at 02:46:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
I think it might be because Mexicans name their kids after a lot of religious figures (Guadalupe, Fatima, Maria, José)
Not a lot of white religious people name their kids afaik after religious figures. It's a lot of Tyler/Travis/anything that can end with Lynn, etc.
Ua_Tsaug · 1 points · Posted at 05:47:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Really? I think there's a lot of Biblical names used by white people. Just look at all the names of various patriarchs and prophets in the Old Testament, as well as Apostles in the New Testament; many of them are common names.
imthewiseguy · 1 points · Posted at 06:06:15 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Good point. I'm talking about names with deep religious meaning, like Guadalupe. Names like Peter, Luke, Ethan or Stephen don't really have any significance if you're not a bible reader. Not a lot of people are going to name their kids Hezekiah or Habakkuk though, even though it seemed more common up until the last century.
BornOn8thOfJuly · 2 points · Posted at 00:42:00 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Are you sure? I thought it was Yeezus if you translated it to English.
Khalbrae · 1 points · Posted at 00:53:43 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The title is wrong. It got translated to Greek, there was not a sound for SH so they changed to a hard S and they removed the a as the end because a at the end is feminine in Greek. Instead changing it to an S.
Then it got translated to Old German, which pronounced J with a Y sound. (Also why Yakob is Jacob, Yennifer is Jennifer, etc) More or less you have the Christian Gothic Germanic tribes and the Germanic Franks to thank for the spreading of the current spelling and later mispronunciation of Jesus around Europe and you have Europe's dominance of the Rennaisance and on to thank for wiping out the proper pronunciation around the globe.
Jesus is Yeshua, he has the same name as the man ordered to slaughter and rape a ton of innocents in the Bible because he had a common Everyman name.
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:11:36 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You missed the Latin stage.
ZAS100 · 2 points · Posted at 02:30:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus was the first Bee movie
Lutheritrux · 2 points · Posted at 02:41:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't know if I can trust this information. Last I checked Jesus was a Mexican name. I would know because I hired him to do landscaping.
angry_krausen · 2 points · Posted at 20:46:11 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Which part of the translation makes it possible to do magic and come back to life?
perstirpes2001 · 1 points · Posted at 20:03:14 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Yeshua or "Joshua" means "God Saves" Edit: [source] (sorry for the long delay. I forgot.) http://www.hebrew-streams.org/works/hebrew/shem-yeshua.html
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 20:45:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
but isn't it the greek word for messiah?
source: not christian
pgm123 · 3 points · Posted at 21:05:03 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's Christos.
Link_707 · 1 points · Posted at 20:51:43 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
i was always told it was yeshua bar yosef.
ajslater · 0 points · Posted at 21:53:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
bar somebody. The legend says Yosef said it wasn't him.
¯\_(ツ)/¯
Andyrob4511 · 1 points · Posted at 21:04:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Josh Christ.... Skate legend and holy martyr.
notsherriseeley · 1 points · Posted at 21:19:04 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Joshua. Said Rachel Green.
tylerdurden801 · 1 points · Posted at 21:19:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Fucking Josh.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 21:21:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
FelixNZ · 1 points · Posted at 22:18:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
How long have we got before he turns 30 and triggers the second coming/Armageddon?
Nash-4Prez · 1 points · Posted at 21:21:24 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's Joshua, and his last name was not Christ. That's more of s title. So you're really not taking his name in vain, since it's not his name.
mavajo · 1 points · Posted at 22:07:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not "more of a title" - it's literally a title. Just like "God" isn't a name. It's a title or description.
theitgrunt · 1 points · Posted at 21:33:11 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think Yeh Shu Ah is more accurate.
JRockBC19 · 1 points · Posted at 21:36:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I learned that from Christopher Moore and his book Lamb. If you are devout, do not look that up. On the other hand, if you wanna read a masterpiece of crude religious satire, please look into it
Random-Miser · 1 points · Posted at 21:36:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Leave it to an all powerful, all knowing, ever present deity to intentionally allow people to mistranslate his own "Holy" book.
OrganicMicroscopes · 0 points · Posted at 22:40:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
How about we study ancient language and not 100% rely on English? Should there be an angelic police force standing around not allowing anyone to do anything that is wrong?
Random-Miser · 1 points · Posted at 22:43:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Unneeded, the Christian god is already "omnipresent". Combined with being Omniscient, and Omnipotent, means that Humans do not in any way have free will. Everything is made according to "gods plan" because he set it up in order to manipulate humans to behave in certain ways and do certain things so that he can have an excuse to create eternal beings in order to stoke the fires of hell.
OrganicMicroscopes · 0 points · Posted at 23:48:14 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
What if that's not true at all and no one is more loving or just and He's not willing that anyone perish and we don't know an ultimate outcome yet?
Random-Miser · 1 points · Posted at 00:42:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
So you are arguing that god is not Omnipotent, nor Omniscient, and that he did not create Hell, or Earth or anything else, and is really just a very nice yet utterly powerless being? Which is completely at odds with anything biblical, but of course if he was indeed not Omniscient or Omnipotent that would make sense as then the bible, and all other holy texts would just be whatever the crap anyone wanted to write, as god would have had no influence on it.
Why exactly are we worshiping this being again?
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 04:00:36 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What suggested I meant to imply He didn't create anything?
What if He actually gave us paradise and we ourselves messed up in a way that led to death and He gave us a way out and is not willing that anyone perish?
"18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Sovereign YHWH: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye." Ezekiel 18:31-32 (RNKJV)
"3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with YHWH as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
3:9 YHWH is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
3:10 But the day of YHWH will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all set-apart conversation and reverence,
3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of YHWH, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." 2 Peter 3:8-13 (RNKJV)
Random-Miser · 1 points · Posted at 04:10:53 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So are you claiming god as being Omniscient, and Omnipotent or not? If you are then "free will" does not exist, as god would know exactly what every single person who ever exists would choose to do before they were ever born by however he chose to set up the universe. AKA he would be allowing people to come into existence knowing full well he was creating them strictly to be tortured for eternity. AKA God would be an absolutely huge dick undeserving of worship by anyone with the least bit of moral fiber.
If you are claiming that god is neither Omnipotent, nor Omniscient then you admit he would have had no control over the texts you are citing, and if that is the case they are not the word of god by any measure, but are simply the ramblings of normal/probably pretty deluded human beings. On top of that even if said powerless god existed, why would he be called god as opposed to "really nice guy that is wishing us well".
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 04:31:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
When is there truly love without enough free will to choose the opposite of that?
"13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away." Matthew 13:47-48 (RNKJV)
Random-Miser · 1 points · Posted at 05:00:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ahh so your response is a mental shutdown. The existence of an Omniscient, and Omnipotent being by definition eliminates free will from any lesser being, the "God" knows exactly how every single person will react, and has complete control over every stimulus to carry out those reactions. Meaning that he creates people specifically for the fires of hell, and makes sure by either his actions or inaction that they make choices to lead themselves there, like cattle in a coral. This of course makes god a sadistic monster, at least from our point of view. From his point of view he may need those souls burning to keep his intergalactic coffee warm, as such a being would be more likely to view us as we view ants than as anything remotely related to beings deserving of affection.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 06:03:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You might ultimately be arguing that the Creator can't create someone without programming every step they will go on to make. What if there was a net cast into a sea in a sense? And do you really even know if anyone is going to be tortured forever?
Random-Miser · 1 points · Posted at 06:10:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, I am saying that a deity who is omnipotent, and Omniscient by definition knows everything a person ever will think or do. It is the defining property of having those abilities. So either you have a god who is not all knowing, and all powerful, in which case, why call it god? Or you Have a deity who IS all knowing, and all powerful who by virtue of his own stated rules, and the observations of the reality we experience, is a gigantic dick.
If you start wanting to pick and choose what you think is "real" from your holy book then you can no longer assume any of it is legitimate.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 06:32:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Did whoever is referred to here see all there is to see at all times?
"1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood." -Isaiah 1:15 (RNKJV)
Do we even know what is going to happen to the devil for sure if the Creator has said He would do something and then decided not to?
"3:10 And Elohim saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and Elohim repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not." -Jonah 3:10 (RNKJV)
What is my holy book if I'm non-Pauline and more into 1 Enoch than Galatians?
Random-Miser · 1 points · Posted at 06:52:33 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So you ARE arguing for a god who is not all powerful, and NOT all knowing. AKA a flawed god.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 07:10:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What if Yahuah's all powerful and simply chose not to see all things at all times?
Random-Miser · 1 points · Posted at 07:15:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Then he would not be Omniscient. As there would be holes in his knowledge of things, thus making him an imperfect being.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 07:26:17 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What if He knows everything there is to know now whether He's looked away from something before or not?
Random-Miser · 1 points · Posted at 07:52:43 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Then it wouldn't matter if he isn't looking now would it? He already knows what is going to happen, him looking changes nothing, he already knows the choice that will be made.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 11:28:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Is it not true that He either created beings destined for eternal punishment while knowing they were destined beforehand or He didn't? What's not a vain debate centered on subjective judgement of perfection if it's already been established that there is scripture that concerns Him closing His eyes?
urbrickles · 1 points · Posted at 21:42:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, if you know Latin, you know, like, three different languages.
rustedrevolver · 1 points · Posted at 21:43:23 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh my Josh!
ian_stein · 1 points · Posted at 21:43:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Joshua Christ! That's Jason Bourne!
Halfonion · 1 points · Posted at 21:44:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
In the Latin alphabet Jehovah begins with an I
frag971 · 1 points · Posted at 21:45:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So He would actually be Josh? Josh Christ? :P
Pray to Josh.
alextherager · 1 points · Posted at 21:47:57 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm late so provably won't get an answer, but how are names, being proper nouns, translated? Wouldn't my name be Alex everywhere no matter the language
invitingwheat0 · 1 points · Posted at 22:01:50 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I was just thinking this. I think it's becomes some names have meanings, and so those meanings must be translated? Beats me. I hope someone smart comes along to answer this question.
StruckingFuggle · 1 points · Posted at 21:48:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Joshua H. Christ!
lepizao · 1 points · Posted at 21:49:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Joshua take the wheel! ...mmmnop
therorTTT · 1 points · Posted at 21:49:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Actually these days, he's called "yeshu". Source: am Jewish living in Israel
justanothergirling · 1 points · Posted at 21:50:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I once knew a messianic who referred to him as Yehoshuah ben Yoseph (Joshuah son of Joseph).
LegalElk · 1 points · Posted at 21:50:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I thought Jesus and his buddies spoke Aramaic not Hebrew? Thats what Mel Gibson told me.
chanaleh · 3 points · Posted at 22:17:55 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes, but he would have spoken Hebrew as well since that's the language of worship and religious study. He may also have spoken Greek.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 21:58:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
They did. But Hebrew was still used in naming conventions (similar to how we still use Latinate names, yet we don't speak it). There might a chance that Yeshuah is also in Aramaic, though.
Jesus_Harry_Christ · 1 points · Posted at 21:52:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Talk about an identity crisis.
baseballandfreedom · 1 points · Posted at 21:54:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
On a somewhat separate note, I think I also once learned that no one was named Peter until Saint Peter had his name changed from Simon to Peter by Jesus. It was the equivalent of calling someone a rock; hence why Peter was called the rock of the church (the first pope). Of course, that's the Catholic view. Protestants, well, ya know won't agree.
GoliathPrime · 1 points · Posted at 21:55:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So the phrase, "You're Joshing me, right?" now has much different connotations.
Jordaneer · 1 points · Posted at 21:56:03 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
r/JoshuaChristReddit
RNGeeeeesus · 1 points · Posted at 21:56:59 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Just to add to this discussion, my middle name is Joseph. When I moved to Israel they started to call me "Yoseph". It's the translation into Hebrew. However, I actually went by Eliyahu which means Elijah who was a prophet.
big_bearded_nerd · 1 points · Posted at 21:59:31 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And I thought Joshua Christ was just Jesus' weird cousin...
LocalH · 3 points · Posted at 22:03:22 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's Jerry Christ
AustinTransmog · 1 points · Posted at 22:01:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wonder if the author saw the "Josh, from two towns over" post in r/atheism a couple years ago.
strong_grey_hero · 1 points · Posted at 22:02:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
There was a 1970s - 1980s movie that was Jesus' story updated to modern-day (at the time). In that movie, his name was Joshua. The thing that stuck out to me all these years later was the worship-like music that was rewritten substituting 'Joshua' for 'Jesus'.
BoilerMaker11 · 1 points · Posted at 22:02:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
I don't remember if it was just a joke or something, but I read a chuckle worthy analysis of the name "Jesus of Nazarene".
First off, Jesus <-- Yeshua <-- Joshua. Secondly, when some is titled "of [insert location]", it normally denotes that the person is from somewhere far away, to the people you say it to; but, Biblical scholars say Jesus only traveled, at most, about 10 kilometers (or miles, I don't remember which) from where he grew up when he was doing his Jesus things (it'd be like Obama going to Evanston and being titled "Barack of Chicago").
So, this name "Jesus of Nazarene", which seems to be really prestigious, really only means "Josh from around the corner"
geekwcutekitties · 1 points · Posted at 22:03:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
OH MY JOSH!
Hey_im_miles · 1 points · Posted at 22:06:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The Father, Josh, and the Holy Spirit
FoodBeerBikesMusic · 1 points · Posted at 22:06:55 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
But what does the "H" stand for?
Dopemongo · 1 points · Posted at 22:08:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
so... all this time when i was making fun of mexicans how they name their newborn with a name "jesus".... Josh was jesus too?
D_rotic · 1 points · Posted at 22:08:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Holy fuck white people name there kids Jesus too.
SlyMousie · 1 points · Posted at 22:09:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I wonder what else was lost in the translation.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:09:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus is the Latin form indees. Like Julius, Aurelius, Pontius. Jesus is what his name would be in the Roman Empire.
spunk_monk · 1 points · Posted at 22:11:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
What's also weird is that in Hebrew Jesus' name is spelled "ישו" which is pronounced "yeshu". So it's a closed circle of broken telephone.
justforkix · 1 points · Posted at 22:12:14 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Apparently he also wasn't white or had blond hair.
gettingrad · 1 points · Posted at 22:12:31 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Monster Energy Drink's logo, the 3 claw marks, look exactly like the Hebrew numeral for 6 vav; so their logo is 666
4floorsofwhores · 1 points · Posted at 22:14:04 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus Tree didn't sound as nice. - Bono
BeBa420 · 1 points · Posted at 22:14:54 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ahh that's why he's called Jesus.
I always knew his name was Joshua. Figured he was referred to colloquially as Jesus because there already was a Joshua in the bible and it didn't make sense to name the son of the big cheese after a minor biblical figure
Lindvaettr · 1 points · Posted at 22:15:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's pretty convenient, since the Bible already has at least two Joshuas. If we didn't translate the names, the whole thing would be just lousy with Joshuas.
Thebluewriter · 1 points · Posted at 22:16:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
In Arabic, his name is Eissah , kind off similar to Joshua .
Mister-builder · 1 points · Posted at 22:16:31 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Thought this was r/judaism for a second
shadowstrikesagain · 1 points · Posted at 22:16:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
that wasn't the only thing lost in translation. apparently a hebrew librarian filed his bible in the non-fiction section
qp0n · 1 points · Posted at 22:17:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not to discount the mildly interesting nature of this post .... but there's no literal translation for names. Names are names, any change made for another culture is just a different name. Otherwise we would call Socrates "Steve".
funkylenny · 1 points · Posted at 22:17:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
MY WHOLE LIFE HAS BEEN A LIE.
WeirdBeardDude · 1 points · Posted at 22:17:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
As someone who studied classical history I'm thankful that so many people are reading this.
Khalirei · 1 points · Posted at 22:17:57 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Joshua christ, guys.
NiteNiteSooty · 1 points · Posted at 22:18:15 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
i thought it was jeshua and the j is pronounced like a y
Choreboy · 1 points · Posted at 22:21:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's his name in Hebrew. Pronounced yeh-shoo-uh. I don't know if the 1st or 2nd syllable is stressed.
knave_of_knives · 1 points · Posted at 22:18:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Joshua bar-Joseph, to be exact.
Choreboy · 1 points · Posted at 22:20:11 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wouldn't it be binJoseph?
knave_of_knives · 1 points · Posted at 22:22:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nah. 'bar-' is the connotation of "son of", or, "male child of" in Aramaic.
Joshua102097 · 1 points · Posted at 22:19:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I remember learning this early on in life being from a religious household.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:20:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, Joshua H. Christ.
OfficerFeely · 1 points · Posted at 22:20:28 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jacob and James are the same way, where it's the same name from Hebrew that took different paths through other languages to arrive at English. Jacob is close to the Hebrew but James went through Latin as Jacobus and at some point morphed into Jacomus. It's why James can be translated into "Diego" in Spanish.
chuckberry314 · 1 points · Posted at 22:21:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
might be a stupid question but what is jesus doing in the hebrew bible to begin with?
RaitoGG · 1 points · Posted at 22:22:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So that's why the god from the game 'The World Ends With You' is named Joshua.
Silverdragon701 · 1 points · Posted at 22:22:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Praise Josh!
Chauncy_Prime · 1 points · Posted at 22:23:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus spoke in Aramaic as a native language?
nomad80 · 1 points · Posted at 02:06:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Primary for daily conversation, yes
Overall likely trilingual
Chauncy_Prime · 1 points · Posted at 02:32:39 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What's his name in Aramaic?
nomad80 · 1 points · Posted at 02:44:57 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
there's two ways of looking at your question:
whats the direct Aramaic equivalent? Aramaic and Hebrew were Semitic & thus related, so in this instance it would be Yeshua / Eashoa
The other aspect of precedence to note though is, being Jewish, and a resident of north Israel, His name would still remain Yeshua, since that is the given name. For e.g. my name as Thor would not change whether i lived in Norway, or China
VirginWizard69 · 1 points · Posted at 22:23:35 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
For those who cannot read the thumbnail:
All three are varient spelling of Joshua.
2) full form spelling with full long 'u'in the middle. Ye Ho Shu a
1) same as #2 except it is missing the full 'u' in the middle. Ye Ho S(u)a
3)Yeshua. It is missing the Ho in the middle.
compuzr · 1 points · Posted at 22:24:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Tis the Holiday Season, when we celebrate the story of Yehoshua Hamashiach and his apostles, Shim'on who was called Cephas, Ya'aqov, Yochanan, Bar-Talmai, Mattityahu, Tau’ma (the doubter), Yehuda the Iscariot, Andreas and Filippos, the other Shim'on, the other Ya'aqov, and Thaddaeus. And of course the one who prepared the way, Yūhannā al-maʿmadān.
CultivatedSalamander · 1 points · Posted at 22:25:43 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Woah, my name's Joshua
A40 · 1 points · Posted at 22:27:55 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Josh Poobah
moffitts_prophets · 1 points · Posted at 22:28:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
By the way, his name is Joshua. I have no idea what the H stands for.
Maggiemayday · 1 points · Posted at 22:28:31 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh my Gosh, Josh!
Mitsuki_Horenake · 1 points · Posted at 22:29:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
DAMMIT GOOGLE TRANSLATE
wherewasmybrain · 1 points · Posted at 22:29:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So basically we get the name Jesus from a game of "Let's put this in Google Translate a bunch of times".
_Face · 1 points · Posted at 22:32:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
yup. just think what else they fucked up.
BlueDrache · 1 points · Posted at 22:34:09 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think something got sloshed in translation.
_Zeppeli_ · 1 points · Posted at 22:35:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Drake and Jesus
Flobarooner · 1 points · Posted at 22:35:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
My name is Joshua. You better believe everyone I know will hear this repeated at least ~3 times a day.
_Jaeke · 1 points · Posted at 22:37:12 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So my name: Jeshua, is pretty much the same as Jesus? TIL...
BerniceSandHairs · 1 points · Posted at 22:37:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
What's Hebrew for fiction?
clown-penisdotfart · 1 points · Posted at 22:37:55 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
As if we needed more evidence that "The Joshua Tree" was a divinely inspired album.
TridentWielder · 1 points · Posted at 22:38:54 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Good old Josh Christ.
SailorSmaug · 1 points · Posted at 22:39:31 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Okay, am I the only one who thinks "son of Nun" is an awesome title? I mean, yeah I know it was one of his parent's name, but . . . it sounds like a rapper's name!
Tetro2 · 1 points · Posted at 22:40:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
While we are on the topic All James's in the New Testament are Jacobs in Hebrew and Greek
sinesoma · 1 points · Posted at 22:40:09 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So many rappers need to change up their arm tattoos now. They are the real victims here.
DerpMods · 1 points · Posted at 22:40:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Josh, son of God.
benoit-ballz · 1 points · Posted at 22:41:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So it's actually Drake and Jesus?
Portugal-TheCat · 1 points · Posted at 22:42:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Our lord and savior, Josh.
0000010000000101 · 1 points · Posted at 22:42:59 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Χριστος
is just christ in greek which is where we get XP and fish from.
Cataphractoi · 2 points · Posted at 03:36:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I doubt microsoft are that arrogant...
0000010000000101 · 1 points · Posted at 04:20:49 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
haha can't draw the superimposed image
rubink · 1 points · Posted at 22:45:41 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Of course you also get the name 'Jesús' by translating the Hebrew name to Greek to Latin to English to Spanish.
yoshi_1226 · 1 points · Posted at 22:47:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
My name is Josh and I approve this message.
jefferson497 · 1 points · Posted at 22:48:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Josh Christ doesn't have the same ring to it
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:36:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Try Joshua Josephson.
kirnehp · 1 points · Posted at 22:49:55 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jehova! Jehova! Jehova!
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:36:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yehova actually ;)
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:50:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wasn't the New Testament written originally in Greek? If we're adding "us" at the end of names there, then Jesus's name was Jes, right?
vegasti · 1 points · Posted at 22:50:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I wonder what else they got wrong when they didn't even get the main character's name right. https://youtu.be/q3rLof2cnzg
aquamarina2 · 1 points · Posted at 22:50:50 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
earliest game of telephone played?
dallonv · 1 points · Posted at 22:51:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So... Google translate before Google translated?
The-Choo-Choo-Shoe · 1 points · Posted at 22:52:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
TIL: Jesus is banned from CSGO.
leknarf52 · 1 points · Posted at 22:53:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I knew this all along because I know Hebrew. Was never too amazed by it. Glad that people are into this factoid!
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:35:47 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hebrew is a fun language.
andyclarkk · 1 points · Posted at 22:53:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The name James has undergone a similar transformation. In the New Testament, the disciple known in English as "James" is named Ἰάκωβος, which would transliterate to "Jacob." However, when translated to Latin, it became either "Iacobus" or "Iacomus," since the b and m sounds were similar. I think it came through Old French as well.
EDIT: More info at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_(name)
MagisterTJL · 1 points · Posted at 22:53:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And this is because the Old Testament was translated into English from Hebrew, while the New Testament comes from Greek.
For this reason, you also seem some Latin Bibles that call the Book of Joshua "Iesus filius Nun." ("Jesus the son of Nun"), because they preserved the Greek-derived transliteration for the Old Testament figure, too. Other versions transliterate as Iosuë.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:55:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus also says the world is gay. /esotericjoke
3Power · 1 points · Posted at 23:00:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And even then we pronounce it wrong. It's actually "E-ES-SU" in greek/latin.
DaFo4 · 1 points · Posted at 23:01:50 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Seriously ? WTF ? No wonder, he hasn't gotten any of my messages. I've been sending them to Jesus Christ. Joshua Christ HELP mang I need a loan.
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:33:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Isn't Christ more a title or Cognomen than a name itself though?
MpVpRb · 1 points · Posted at 23:02:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So, if Jesus is from the middle east, how come he has a Mexican name?
lkxyz · 2 points · Posted at 23:29:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Cause tortillas'' godlike
ratpH1nk · 1 points · Posted at 23:03:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think this is just one of the many, many side effects of poly-language translation.
Martin2113 · 1 points · Posted at 23:03:35 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
it doesn't matter. It's just the same name interpret different ways. It means nothing.
bh2005 · 1 points · Posted at 23:05:24 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Who?
BestintheWest219 · 1 points · Posted at 23:06:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Love you!
edbro333 · 1 points · Posted at 23:06:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh my Josh
Macintosh_HD · 1 points · Posted at 23:06:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Praise Joshua just doesn't have the same ring to it.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:09:15 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Josh fucking christ
huruma · 1 points · Posted at 23:09:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
basically like the entire bible itself....
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:10:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I heard sometime ago that it was 'Jeshua'.
Any truth to that?
SamGlover1256 · 2 points · Posted at 23:20:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
If one were to be pedantic, it's actually Yeshua. There's no j in ancient Hebrew (I can't speak for modern Hebrew because all my education has focused on Biblical translation), just y. Today, it would be usually anglicized as Joshua. There're no vowels as we think of them in ancient Hebrew either, the addition of vowel marks was done by the Masoretes to preserve the way they pronounced the language. So it is Yeshua, yes, but the kind of person that would have a fit at you if you say Joshua tends to also be a person not worth paying attention to.
MrPrezbo · 1 points · Posted at 23:26:09 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Would the phonetic pronunciation be closer to Yeshua or Joshua?
SamGlover1256 · 1 points · Posted at 23:29:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeshua, if you wanted to stick as close to Hebrew pronunciation as we can.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:32:08 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeshua that was it! Okay that makes sense thank you.
SamGlover1256 · 2 points · Posted at 00:36:47 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No problem! Glad to help.
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:32:24 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Modern Hebrew tries to approximate for letters it lacks. So a J would be a gimmel with an apostrophe before.
barbandit87 · 1 points · Posted at 23:11:03 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Fuck yea my name is Joshua
SeengignPaipes · 1 points · Posted at 23:12:58 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Greetings fellow Joshua.
redfiveroe · 1 points · Posted at 23:12:21 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Joshua bin Joseph.
ty1771 · 1 points · Posted at 23:12:37 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus Christ Purple Monkey Dishwasher
HaydenGalloway11 · 1 points · Posted at 23:14:14 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I thought hebrew for Joshua was yeshua with an "oo" sound and Jesus was Yeshoa with an "oh" sound.
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:31:24 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeshua and Yehoshua.
suprdry · 1 points · Posted at 23:14:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
drake and josh has changed for me
JTerror420 · 1 points · Posted at 23:18:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Joshuas of the world... ASSEMBLEEEEEE
GatemouthBrown · 1 points · Posted at 23:21:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
That's his name in Lamb: The gospel according to Biff. It's only the best book ever.
Edit: Seriously, if you've not read it, you really should.
JDMjosh · 1 points · Posted at 23:21:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
My time to shine
BigTallJosh · 1 points · Posted at 23:22:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Okay guys I can't keep this a secret any longer. I am Jesus.
joshynet · 1 points · Posted at 23:22:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
TIL I am Jesus
expiresinapril · 1 points · Posted at 23:23:15 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ugh. close tab.
Not going to even patronize Wikipedia at the moment (in any sense of the word).
vinicevega · 1 points · Posted at 23:24:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Praise josh! Lol
Roboticsammy · 1 points · Posted at 23:24:50 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Now we really got Joshed
ademnus · 1 points · Posted at 23:24:57 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
What about the names Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? What actually were they in Hebrew?
nomad80 · 1 points · Posted at 02:11:19 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Good detail here
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:29:29 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Matthew -> Matityahu, John -> Yohannan. I think Mark and Luke are Greek/Latin.
dropkickderby · 1 points · Posted at 23:25:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Praise Josh.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:26:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
But his name means love in every language.
Stormy_knight · 1 points · Posted at 23:26:35 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAXQI8JALfk
You don't need to go Greek -> Latin -> English,
Greek -> English works fine
gianlaurentis · 1 points · Posted at 23:26:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Except for the part where you don't translate people's names..... My name is Gian, and translated it would be John. No one calls me John
KappaGopherShane · 1 points · Posted at 23:27:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wut?
joshuay129 · 1 points · Posted at 23:28:05 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Damn my name is Joshua, too bad I don't believe in god.
JoshRBG · 1 points · Posted at 23:29:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Been saying this for years!!!
functionalsociopathy · 1 points · Posted at 23:29:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Are you joshin' us?
mah-tay · 1 points · Posted at 23:36:24 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Y'shua? yeah, I'm shua.
YataBLS · 1 points · Posted at 23:39:15 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
WE'VE BEEN DECEIVED ALL THIS TIME, JOSHUACHRIST!!!!!!!
InfiniteZr0 · 1 points · Posted at 23:39:43 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
TIL my name is Jesus
vonlichenstien · 1 points · Posted at 23:42:14 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So if last names originated from your occupation, it could be assumed that Jesus' name was Carpenter. Joshua Carpenter. I now understand why he is always depicted as a white man.
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:27:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Really? Try visiting the 'holy land' sometime.
vonlichenstien · 1 points · Posted at 03:57:57 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Are you implying that white people thrive there?
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:59:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm implying that a carpenter isn't always a white man. which is what you seemed to be implying. Unless we both misinferred each other.
vonlichenstien · 1 points · Posted at 04:01:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That definitely sounds like what happened here...
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 04:04:49 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hilarious.
vonlichenstien · 1 points · Posted at 04:04:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
For the sake of full disclosure, I was referring to Josh Carpenter sounding like a very typical white man's name.
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 04:05:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That makes a lot of sense. Although in fairness to my reply, the geography and food from that region is beautiful.
sour_creme · 1 points · Posted at 23:43:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
jesus! the translation got mangled.
o_Oz · 1 points · Posted at 23:46:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Fine! Now explain how we ended up with WHITE JESUS...
pkspks · 1 points · Posted at 23:51:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Christianity (and the Jesus's name) came to India through multiple routes.
He's called "Yeshu" and "Isa masih" (jesus - prophet) in different contexts. "Isa masih" probably being closer to what he's referred to in Quran.
Cataphractoi · 2 points · Posted at 03:26:43 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Isa Masih? Sounds like Yeshua ha Meshiakh. Interesting how the term for Messiah is so similar between the two.
pkspks · 1 points · Posted at 07:35:45 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes, Masih == Messiah
Dragon33217 · 1 points · Posted at 23:53:15 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I wanna know what percentage of upvotes are people named joshua
ejc138 · 1 points · Posted at 23:53:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
How many other very important things in that book have been lost in translation?
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:25:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You know that part about the 'virgin' Mary?
Angstromium · 1 points · Posted at 23:53:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
For me the most weird and interesting name is Thomas the Apostle's, known as "Doubting Thomas", or Thomas Didymus
His actual name is given as as Judas Thomas. Thomas was his nickname because in Aramaic t'om'a means "Twin". Didymus is the Coptic Greek for Twin.
"Judas the Twin" Doubting Thomas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_the_Apostle
Many interesting theories revolve around this.
Huddy2906 · 1 points · Posted at 23:57:20 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
This is how you can confirm that there are mistakes in the Bible. It's been translated over so many different languages so many times that it has lost its initial meaning.
nomad80 · 1 points · Posted at 02:13:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The original language texts still exist
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:24:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Correct. Mary was also never said to have been a virgin, but a young woman.
Bloody_hood · 1 points · Posted at 23:59:43 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh oh wait I knew this one!
(Happily wags tail)
ThomDowting · 1 points · Posted at 23:59:54 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
OK. And what would the word be in Aramaic, i.e. the language that historical Jesus actually would have spoken?
Might as well be saying that his name woild have been whatever in Esperantom
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:24:14 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The two languages are incredibly similar.
ThomDowting · 1 points · Posted at 16:23:17 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yea. I'm sure that Assyrians and native Hebrew speakers would be able to converse np. /S
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:02:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
KingRedditR · 2 points · Posted at 01:58:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yet it is. The bible is not only read in Hebrew anymore, it is translated to many languages and for some reason, unknown to me, there is a common practice of transliteration of proper nouns, which is an improper practice. Yeshua is his name, it is the Hebrew word for 'salvation'. In the Bible Miriam (Mary) is told by the arch angel Gabriel that she will "name him Yeshua because he will be a savior to his people." The problem with western Christianity, especially in America is that so much of the root is lost. Christianity was never supposed to be a new religion, it was only an extension of Judaism, a new covenant between God and the Israelites wherein He also brought all of the gentiles into the inheritance of the kingdom as well. Yeshua's presence and life/teachings was meant to bring repentance (turn away from) from sin and a reconciliation with God. Mashiach (we say Messiah) is a uniquely Hebrew/Jewish concept which means 'anointed one' That is why you will also see Jesus called Jesus Christ, which most American Christians seem to think is his first and last name. Christ has its origins in the word Christos which is Greek for "to anoint", hardly the same. But that came from the Hebrew Yeshua HaMashiach or Yeshua the anointed Ha meaning the in Hebrew and Mashiach meaning 'anointed one' If he were to have a surname it would have been Yeshua ben Yosef (ben Yosef means son of Yosef) but that is debated as Christianity/Messianic Judaism says Yeshua was not born of Joseph with Mary (Miriam)
Frenchitwist · 1 points · Posted at 00:05:14 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Eve is the English/Germanic translation of the Greek Zoe which is from the original Hebrew/Aramaic Sarah. The more you know~~~
KingRedditR · 1 points · Posted at 01:45:00 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
חַוָּה (Chawwah) is the Hebrew name of "eve" the CH is a hard guttural sound.
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:20:57 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
As a Hebrew speaker I struggle to see how Khava ends up as Zoe, although it apparently does.
MacwellX · 1 points · Posted at 00:05:29 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Actually the only sect that had it translated into Latin was the Catholic church. If I remember right the modern Catholic version was taken from the Douay Bible which was an early translation. Many new discoveries have been found since.
yuhknowwudimean · 1 points · Posted at 00:06:44 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
reekris!
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:07:30 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Drake and Jesus
badaboom · 1 points · Posted at 00:08:26 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Stop trying to make Joshua happen. It's not going to happen!"
_0x0_ · 1 points · Posted at 00:14:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What about Jehovah?
rapshlomo · 2 points · Posted at 00:23:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jehovah is the English word Yahweh, which means god in Hebrew. Yehoshah is the Hebrew name for Jesus
KingRedditR · 1 points · Posted at 01:41:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Elohim means god in Hebrew or Elohai. Yehoshua is the Aramaic, but the Hebrew is Yeshua (Yod Shin Waw Ayin) which means "salvation"
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:17:31 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, Jehova is the English for Yehova, which is the name of God.
_0x0_ · 1 points · Posted at 04:26:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Thanks. I wonder if Jesus ever intended his followers to worship him and not the actual God.
Cataphractoi · 2 points · Posted at 03:17:56 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jehova is the English for the Hebrew Yehova, which is the name of god himself.
Obandigo · 1 points · Posted at 00:16:56 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Goddamn You Joshua!
florian0815 · 1 points · Posted at 00:20:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
In other news: The virgin Mary was mistranslated. It read "young woman Mary" in the original. (german source: https://www.welt.de/kultur/article3100214/Uebersetzungsfehler-machte-Maria-zur-Jungfrau.html)
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:17:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Correct, it does not mean virgin or maiden, although some have tried to retcon that definition onto the term.
stupidity_killz · 1 points · Posted at 00:21:48 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Since Jesus means Joshua, and he was also known as The Anointed One, can we make a version of the Bible where Jesus is referred to only as Oily Josh?
EachBoth · 1 points · Posted at 00:21:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Actually his name is pronounced "John Oldman"
ultrajosua · 1 points · Posted at 00:27:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I feel so loved in this thread :)
tard24 · 1 points · Posted at 00:31:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
If they didn't even translate the name of the most important person of the New Testament, how much else do you think is probably wrong?
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:14:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Given that things have been interpreted, re-interpreted, re-written, omitted or otherwise by various ecumenical councils and empires, much I'm afraid.
Foos47DCC · 1 points · Posted at 00:31:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Funny I learned the exact same thing in my Judaic Studies class.
ninshin · 1 points · Posted at 00:32:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Still jebus in my book
batandfox · 1 points · Posted at 00:32:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I have heard it as Yeshua.
KingRedditR · 1 points · Posted at 01:39:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It is.... Yeshua means "salvation" in Hebrew.
AllPurposeNerd · 1 points · Posted at 00:33:18 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Oh, like that time I translated the Gettysburg Address from English to Chinese to Portuguese and back to English. "We meet at the battle where the war is large." Classic.
EDIT: I don't actually remember which languages we used. Just tried it with those two and got less funny results. YMMV
bob-leblaw · 1 points · Posted at 00:34:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't understand how names translate. What does Joshua mean anyway? Without meaning, how can they translate a bunch of letters?
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:13:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What happens is that you try to write a name from one language in another. Unfortunately not all languages share the same set of letters, so you approximate. Repeat with different languages, and you end up with a very distorted name.
Most biblical names are warped thus.
TheGreatJoshua · 1 points · Posted at 00:35:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I am very okay with this.
psykomet · 1 points · Posted at 00:35:08 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hey Jesus, would you like to play a nice game of chess?
Fix_Your_Face · 1 points · Posted at 00:35:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Please tell me his last name actually translates to Graham, that'd be perfect
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:12:55 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
He didn't really have one. Yeshua bar Yoseph would mean Joshua sone of Joseph.
If you insist, Joshua Josephson.
ToadFab · 1 points · Posted at 00:35:56 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus
ianyboo · 1 points · Posted at 00:37:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I just don't get the "name translated to other language" thing. I mean... a name should just be what it is, it shouldn't change if the person is talking to someone who speaks a different language...
Khalbrae · 2 points · Posted at 00:54:55 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You know nothing Juan Sunow!
Urd · 1 points · Posted at 00:44:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It probably mainly comes down to going from phonetic spelling to pronunciation based on that spelling. So if you have a name written in another language, like Chinese for example, and you are trying to write it on a form in the US, probably anyone who sees it won't know what it means when they see it. So you might write it using English characters phonetically, with whatever sounds closest to how your name is pronounced. Then when someone else comes along and reads it on the form, they may not pronounce it exactly the same since they didn't hear you say it. Doing this through several languages can make the name change a fair bit.
ianyboo · 1 points · Posted at 00:53:19 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I get that part of it. Especially in terms of having it written. But the huge phonetic changes still don't make a lot of sense. I'm not even bothered by the small phonetic changes, I'm really only talking about the big stuff here.
Nyfinity · 1 points · Posted at 01:09:25 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Two thousand or so years of lots of little stuff basically turns into big stuff.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:37:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Now think about all the verses you think mean specific things for our modern age, and how many times they've been translated.
KingRedditR · 1 points · Posted at 01:56:57 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
They have the dead sea scrolls to compare it to and have found that the correct meaning was never lost. Not only this but Judaism and Hebrew/Aramaic never stopped being a language, even when Jews were exiled from Israel ca. 70 AD/CE. Hebrew remained the liturgical language for Jews throughout the diaspora.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 15:25:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm not saying the texts have changed, I'm saying you can't just open a bible and think you know what the words originally were intended to mean.
strider_sifurowuh · 1 points · Posted at 00:39:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ah, yes. Josh Christ, savior of the Dave Matthews Band.
Cagn · 1 points · Posted at 00:40:12 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ok, there are a whole lot of good discussions in this thread but I need someone to find me a good audio for this. I want to hear how his name would have been pronounced to his face.
SmoothOperator89 · 1 points · Posted at 00:41:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
ITT: Cunning linguists.
pizzarunner3 · 1 points · Posted at 00:41:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
ITS THE CATHOLIC WAY DARNIT
iseijin · 1 points · Posted at 00:43:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
While not religious myself, one of the interesting books my dad has is a Bible concordance. It shows the Hebrew roots of lots of words found in the Bible. Quite interesting.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:44:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus Christ.....
dcbcpc · 1 points · Posted at 00:44:11 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ieshua Ha-Notsri rather.
NDoilworker · 1 points · Posted at 00:45:19 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
JOSH H CHRIST
akolozvary · 1 points · Posted at 00:45:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-KuuQQC9PU "JOSHUAAA!"
rhythmicdancer · 1 points · Posted at 00:47:25 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So it's like the game Telephone.
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:11:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Only with Empires!
parestrepe · 1 points · Posted at 00:47:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
"pray to Joshua"
SPicazo · 1 points · Posted at 00:48:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Translating names is very odd to me...
tarheelteacher · 1 points · Posted at 00:51:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I knew this from "Lamb" - anyone else?
Oktobr · 1 points · Posted at 00:52:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Joshua Christ Superstar doesn't have the same ring.
CMJunkAddict · 1 points · Posted at 00:52:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So all this time I've just been using some random jerks name in vain? Joshua Christ.
joshuad80 · 1 points · Posted at 00:54:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well hello there.
Wormri · 1 points · Posted at 00:55:16 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I was pretty certain it's just 'ישוע' (Yeshua) so... 20% accurate as usual, morty.
Pkron17 · 1 points · Posted at 00:55:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Technically it's Yeshua.
Prophet_Of_Loss · 1 points · Posted at 00:57:12 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Poor Jesus. His parents had good Anglo-Christian names, but they decided to give Him some wacky Jewish moniker.
I__LIKE__WAFFLES · 1 points · Posted at 00:59:11 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
are you joshing me right now?
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:59:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
There is no J sound in Hebrew. Yahshua is a better transliteration.
KingRedditR · 1 points · Posted at 01:00:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Its actually Yeshua ( HaMaschiach)... Christ is not a last name. Yeshua means salvation in Hebrew, as it was foretold, "you shall call his name 'Yeshua' because he will be a savior to his people." HaMashiach means the annointed one or the annointed. Yod Shin Waw/Oo Ayin (Ye shu A (guttural a)
Adamj1 · 1 points · Posted at 01:02:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So calling him "Jesus" is sort of a Super Karate Monkey Death Car situation.
MrRyuchi · 1 points · Posted at 01:04:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Joshua Bar Joseph is a JoJo.
ChaosWolf1982 · 1 points · Posted at 01:31:15 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
OMG.
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:08:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeshua bar Yoseph would just be Joshua Josephson.
akuthumi · 1 points · Posted at 01:07:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus that's a long path
docsnavely · 1 points · Posted at 01:08:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Does this mean I now need to change professions?
Oderus_Scumdog · 1 points · Posted at 01:12:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I once translated something which now escapes me using google translate, and kept putting it through different languages before putting it back in to English. The siliest outcome was when I'd translated the term several times before translating it in to Chinese and then English at which point it was "Small man who collects flowers".
idontevenarse · 1 points · Posted at 01:19:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You can't translate names. That would be stupid.
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:07:29 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What happens is that you try to write a name from one language in another. Unfortunately not all languages share the same set of letters, so you approximate. Repeat with different languages, and you end up with a very distorted name.
Most biblical names are warped thus.
karlsmission · 1 points · Posted at 01:24:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
so the jews name their kids Jesus too.
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:06:25 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not really, It's certainly not that common a name in Israel.
That said, you don't hear of many called Judas or Judah, yet Yehudah is not that uncommon there.
karlsmission · 1 points · Posted at 06:01:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I grew up near a pretty large Jewish community, the synagogues was just up the street from my house. Half my friends were jews, and at very large number of them were named Joshua. I always called them jesus (Spanish pronunciation hay-sus), just because I thought it was hilarious when I was 14.
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 06:14:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Whereabouts?
karlsmission · 1 points · Posted at 14:11:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
arizona.
_The-Big-Giant-Head_ · 1 points · Posted at 01:25:36 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not what it says in that page, Jesus and Joshua are variations of each other but not identical.
ziphyrr · 1 points · Posted at 01:25:47 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Still fake as hell
64vintage · 1 points · Posted at 01:28:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Gosh!
Cthulu2013 · 1 points · Posted at 01:30:25 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
TIL my Jewish parents gave me a Christian middle name.
... Joshua Christ that's some fucked up shit
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 03:19:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yehoshua was originally one of the twelve scouts sent by Moses into Canaan.
Cthulu2013 · 1 points · Posted at 04:02:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't know this story at all. Tell me more, scholar.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 12:14:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hmm, well, Joshua (Yehoshua) was one of the twelve spies sent by Moses into Canaan (Numbers) to explore it. After Moses' death, he led the Israelites and conquered Canaan, allocating its lands to the tribes (Book of Joshua).
The Bible has some interesting stories, which if adapted to a more fictive point of view, can be a decent read.
MaconHeights · 1 points · Posted at 01:31:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Pronounced Yesh-YOU-Way. Sift a on the Way
98mphfart · 1 points · Posted at 01:34:36 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh my Josh!
LickMyBloodyScrotum · 1 points · Posted at 01:34:43 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's right I am your gift ladies
EnclaveOfObsidian · 2 points · Posted at 01:54:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The Lord has come! And seems to have wiped the blood from his holy wounds on the front of his pants, if the username is anything to go by.
szpaceSZ · 1 points · Posted at 01:35:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, actually without the latin/old french connection, it would be rather Yoshua or Yoshwa, maybe Yeshwa, rather than Joshua.
The /dsh/ pronunciation of <j> is a neo-latin artefact.
tennorabbit · 3 points · Posted at 01:49:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeshwa of Nazareth = Josh from down the street.
johnknoefler · 1 points · Posted at 03:04:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeshua. There is no W sound.
GetMoneyMoMoney · 1 points · Posted at 01:44:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So this proves Christianity is fake right?
B3r43 · 1 points · Posted at 01:46:29 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Joshua fucking Christ
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:49:47 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
Cataphractoi · 2 points · Posted at 03:10:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Christ was a term for Messiah if I recall, can't remember the Language. Also, king of the Jews, as recognised by those who are not the Jews.
Yeshua bar Yoseph would more end up as Joshua Josephson.
SvenDia · 2 points · Posted at 05:28:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Actually, it comes from the Greek word Christos, which means anointed one. If he existed, no one would have called him Christ. It was not his last name.
CaptainGeekyPants · 1 points · Posted at 01:49:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
There is a fantastic book called "Lamb: The Gospel According To Biff" where Jesus is referred to as Josh.
kamikazeaa · 1 points · Posted at 01:49:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Finally...i can prove that i am indeed jesus
EmbraceTheMystery · 1 points · Posted at 01:50:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes, but luckily, absolutely nothing else was distorted by that.
the_space_coder · 1 points · Posted at 01:55:47 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
so whoever wrote the bible used google translate and put it through 3 different languages before they got the english version.
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:03:39 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Except to English likely came via Ireland/Germans/French.
pass_the_noods · 1 points · Posted at 01:56:48 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I was literally just talking about this earlier today. Are you listening to my conversations, reddit?
streetbum · 1 points · Posted at 01:57:58 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't wear crosses no more, Yeshua's coming back.
dblmjr_loser · 1 points · Posted at 01:58:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh Josh Christ!
RinardoEvoris · 1 points · Posted at 02:02:08 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I thought the last TIL said it was "Yeshua" or something because they didn't have a "J" back then?
johnknoefler · 1 points · Posted at 03:01:33 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
True. Yehoshua is more correct but it can be shortened to Yeshua. Basically, without shortening it means I Am Salvation. The original four letter name means I Am. With the shua ending which is Salvation, it means, I am Salvation. If you take the name of God in Hebrew which is Yod Hey Vav Hey and just use the letters they become, Behold the Hand, Behold the Nail. Then use the letters as a word it's, once more, I am.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 03:16:24 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That is incorrect. Yehoshua means "God is salvation." It is written יהושע in Hebrew, יה being a common prefix and suffix in names (referencing God) and י-ש-ע is the root for "salvation."
johnknoefler · 1 points · Posted at 06:06:12 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You're totally wrong.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 12:08:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, if my fluency in Hebrew isn't enough, then perhaps Wikipedia and its plenty of sources is:
Biblical Joshua
The name
The name #2
Jesus himself
johnknoefler · 1 points · Posted at 12:12:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sorry. Wikipedia is junk in this department.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 12:17:55 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wikipedia is great for objective matters. I fail to see why anyone would tamper with Jesus' etymology.
nikku330 · 1 points · Posted at 02:02:08 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Terry Pratchett, Discworld series, I believe.
trexreturns · 1 points · Posted at 02:02:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Biff told ne that.
tifruo · 1 points · Posted at 02:08:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yup. Pronounced ya-shu-uh
diewithmagnificence · 1 points · Posted at 02:11:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This reminds of the game The World Ends With You; one of the character's names was Joshua. Sure enough, he was technically a god.
dooseyboy · 1 points · Posted at 02:17:57 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's incredible how much information is lost and changed in translation. I hope more translation can re-inform the people who use the Bible for hate
Cataphractoi · 0 points · Posted at 03:02:43 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Not just translation but the editing, re-editing and re-writing done by various churches and empires.
EDIT: Study the history of the Papacy and the Byzantine Empire and you will see how this is key to their story.
dooseyboy · 1 points · Posted at 01:08:52 on December 28, 2016 · (Permalink)
thanks :) i'll check it out
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 14:07:26 on December 29, 2016 · (Permalink)
You're welcome :)
washufeezee · 1 points · Posted at 02:18:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
In the Talmud he is referred to as "Yeshu Ha'Notzri"
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:02:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Of Nazerath? Interesting.
washufeezee · 1 points · Posted at 03:08:18 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes exactly
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:43:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
He was not from there though, or was he raised there?
washufeezee · 1 points · Posted at 03:46:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
He lived there for some time I believe.
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:47:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That would make sense.
SaisonSycophant · 1 points · Posted at 02:23:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Read lamb the gospel according to biff
ubsr1024 · 1 points · Posted at 02:30:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So it's "josh", not "gosh"?
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 03:01:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Quite.
ubittibu · 1 points · Posted at 02:36:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
José in spanish
Robert_Rocks · 1 points · Posted at 02:37:37 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Also to Spanish!
Rosebunse · 1 points · Posted at 02:41:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This reminds me of Crack's useful article about the Bible's Christmas story.
Dzanggg · 1 points · Posted at 02:43:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Follows the path of Christianity, doesn't it?
RichoKidd · 1 points · Posted at 02:47:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I am Jesus?
_DryvBy_ · 1 points · Posted at 02:48:26 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Messianic here. This checks out.
johnknoefler · 2 points · Posted at 02:54:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's still off. The title says translated it would mean Joshua. Well, that's wrong on two counts. Translated it would mean, I am salvation. Transliterated it would be Yehoshua. So it's wrong both ways.
Cataphractoi · 2 points · Posted at 02:59:55 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Except it isn't a direct transliteration, which is precisely the problem. It is transcribed from Hebrew to Greek, and then much later to Latin. It is the cumulative errors that bring about this result.
This isn't the only example:
Moshe -> Moses.
Yitshak -> Isaac.
Ya'akov -> Jacob.
Yehudah -> Judah as well as Judas
johnknoefler · 1 points · Posted at 06:07:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You forget, we do have the original Hebrew.
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 06:12:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't forget at all, but I do note the problems of transcription.
johnknoefler · 1 points · Posted at 06:36:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Which are rare. Compare it to other ancient texts. The Torah or Tanakh is the most accurately copied manuscript in the world.
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 06:39:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
They are in Hebrew though, and transcribing in the same language is unlikely to produce an error. The problem comes when you go from one language to another without certain letters.
johnknoefler · 1 points · Posted at 06:52:18 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
We still have the ancient Hebrew.
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 07:17:25 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't see where in my comment I have suggested otherwise. Or what this has to do with the present discussion. Of course we have the ancient Hebrew. Jews use this to read the Torah in prayer often. Moreover it allows us to make these comparisons in the first place.
_DryvBy_ · 1 points · Posted at 13:39:16 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I meant the Yeshua part. I don't really use any other name personally though.
johnknoefler · 1 points · Posted at 15:51:16 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Except the title says "translated". So my assertion is mostly about the title as it is extremely inaccurate. Joshua is not a translation. At best you could say it's a vulgarized transliteration based of the Latin usage of the name which is based off the Greek usage of the name which is based off the later Hebrew shortened version which is based off the original Yehoshuah.
So you can see, the name you use is a shortened version. Of course I imagine to a speaker from that time period it might be understood what the original meaning was for the full length of the name.
Even the Wiki article gets it a bit wrong as well.
But, note this:
The change in spelling and pronunciation did not come directly to English. It was a later change. That would mean that in the 16th century no one ever spoke the name Jesus as it didn't exist then.
This Wiki statement from what I have learned makes the most sense.
So it would seem that the longest version is the most used in the Tanakh, with the shortened version coming in later books, perhaps as the writers made concessions to the changes occurring in contemporary name usage among the people.
So, it might be argued with some merit that the name in His village of Nazareth he was called Yeshua or even Yeshuu.
I did read the entire wiki article and have read many other arguments about this name and it's origins and meanings. As for a translation, I would stick with "I Am Salvation" as this is what the context most strongly suggests.
orionmovere · 1 points · Posted at 02:50:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Like God intended
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 02:52:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
Cataphractoi · 1 points · Posted at 02:56:26 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Modern Hebrew would suffice.
Hoglen · 1 points · Posted at 03:02:24 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
"The penitent man shall pass...The penitent man shall pass??!! Duck!!"
Pete_da_bear · 1 points · Posted at 03:17:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Anyway. I find this clichee disturbing. (Now I think of my 4 sets of lederhosen - which actually are working clothes for me. Musician here)
thefunivehad · 1 points · Posted at 03:17:39 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
but...but...i thought his name was Emmanuel...God with us?
WhiskyJuliet · 1 points · Posted at 03:18:06 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus backwards is Susej.
toolongdontread · 1 points · Posted at 03:18:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I seem to recall the Bible saying He'd have a lot names and they're all the ones by which people would be saved. I remember this one very small sect (cult?) saying the only real translation was yehushua and that what we call him today was derived from zeus and it therfore didn't count.
whathaveicreated · 1 points · Posted at 03:21:43 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Joshua H. Christ
1man_factory · 1 points · Posted at 03:25:25 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Josh Christ
Mrscribblez · 1 points · Posted at 03:27:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
At this point who the sweaty hell cares!?!
GrumpyStarMan · 1 points · Posted at 03:33:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So everyone's been praying to some guy named Joshua this whole time?
hellomireaux · 1 points · Posted at 03:35:59 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh my Josh.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 03:36:16 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Joshua Hernandez
wagwa2001l · 1 points · Posted at 03:51:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The ancient version of google translate
Heyyoguy123 · 1 points · Posted at 03:56:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh Joshua Christ.
Razenghan · 1 points · Posted at 04:12:55 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Gotta admit, this gives some credence to "Jesus H" now.
jgr9 · 1 points · Posted at 04:13:11 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, obviously.... <--
DruidOfFail · 1 points · Posted at 04:16:31 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Infidels!!!
JerkFairy · 1 points · Posted at 04:19:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Brazil Brasil
ballzdeepe · 1 points · Posted at 04:25:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus Hey-soos Hey, Zeus!!!
Walker116 · 1 points · Posted at 04:30:12 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah, the letter J didn't exist in English or Hebrew until after the 16th century. So Jesus was spelled like Joshua in Hebrew, but was pronounced Yeshua. That's why the original King James Bible doesn't have any J's either.
JoshCL · 1 points · Posted at 04:34:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I am Jesus..confirmed 2016
Lolcatz101 · 1 points · Posted at 04:39:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Spooky reading this as a Joshua
failingforwardG · 1 points · Posted at 04:41:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Idk if this is considered etymology but this post, and the discussion it created is just. Fucking. Awesome. I am so fascinating by why we call things what we do. History is a giant game of telephone!
billbryan516 · 1 points · Posted at 04:42:40 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Honestly, I had heard the more direct translation was Aaron...but I would be inclined to agree with this artice after reading it.
festyear · 1 points · Posted at 04:47:25 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I-E-H-O-ohhh
Nectarfizz · 1 points · Posted at 04:48:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeshua in Hebrew is a verbal derivative from "to rescue", "to deliver"--I find this interesting.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 04:50:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
willoz · 1 points · Posted at 05:15:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Is that like people named "Guy?"
Holinyx · 1 points · Posted at 04:57:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Writing down all these cool new DnD/RPG names I can use
SvenDia · 1 points · Posted at 04:57:14 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
And he didn't have a last name either. Christ is just an an anglicized version of the Greek word christos, which means anointed one. No one would have called him Yeshua Christ
xHussin · 1 points · Posted at 05:02:43 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
In arabic we call him Isa. Mary is arabic is Maryam.
Tsemnar · 1 points · Posted at 05:08:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Funny there are some sects out there that don't believe you are truly saved unless you've been baptized in the name of Jesus. "well, the guys back then were baptized in the name of Joshua. The guys after that in Jesu's name. So, which ones were saved and which ones weren't?"
willoz · 1 points · Posted at 05:14:08 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
None.
rotospoon · 1 points · Posted at 05:11:33 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
FTFY. I've never met an English Jesus. I know 7 Spanish-speaking ones though.
speacial_s · 1 points · Posted at 05:12:36 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sounds legit.
Quigley358979323 · 1 points · Posted at 05:13:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
In Josh's name, Amen.
22derpette22 · 1 points · Posted at 05:14:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'll never get why we don't just use the name people actually called the person.
gatling_gun_gary · 1 points · Posted at 05:20:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It might (might) be more accurate to say it would be "Josh" rather than "Joshua." Joshua is "יְהוֹשֻׁעַ," (Ye-hoshu-a), and Jesus is "יֵשׁוּעַ" (Ye-shu-a), which could be called a "pet" form of Joshua (why I say "Josh").
It still retains the same general meaning in Hebrew. "יְהוֹשׁוּעַ" = "Yah (a shortened form of the name of God, Yahweh) is deliverance/salvation (from the Hebrew root 'יָשַׁע,' 'Ya-shah' -- 'to save/deliver')."
(Possibly) Interesting note -- Hebrew names commonly use "Yah" or "Yahu" (Hezekiah/Hiz-ki-yahu/Strength of Yah, Elijah/Eli-yahu/Yahu is my God, Obadiah/Eved-Yahu/Servant of Yahu) to keep from violating the 3rd commandment not to take the name of The LORD in vain. This is the same reason Jews today will use "Hashem" ("The Name") to refer to God and, traditionally, they would use "Adonai" ("My lord"). As an extension of this, we get "Jehova" from the same place. In the Tanakh (Hebrew Old Testament), the word "יהוה" ("Yahweh" -- God's literal name) is pointed with the vowels for "אֲדֹנָי" ("My lord") as a reminder to the reader to vocalize the word as "Adonai" rather than "Yahweh" to keep the name sacred and not violate the 3rd commandment. When the Textus Receptus (Latin Bible -- the "Received Text") was produced, it was rendered without this fact in mind as "Yo-vah," which turned into "Jehova" in English. While beyond the scope of this comment, read up on "niqqud" or "dots" to understand vowels in Hebrew if you're super interested and have a bunch of unused time on your hands.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 05:23:17 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
The97545 · 1 points · Posted at 05:28:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Actually jesus is a mistranslation of the name is Yahshua which is a contraction of Yahweh is salvation(Yahweh is often mistranslated as Jehovah or lord). This also makes john 5:43 more sensible when Yahshua said I come in my fathers name(Yahweh).
cediddi · 1 points · Posted at 05:29:57 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This might be why we call him isa "ee-sah". I always wondered where the "J" went.
cloud_templar · 1 points · Posted at 05:31:39 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Suddenly Drake and Josh memes got a lot more interesting
ani0227 · 1 points · Posted at 06:10:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
i have a cousin from boston named joshua whos a total red-sox loving dude and i just think the bible is way more interesting if we imagine jesus as a loud mouthed axe body spray wearing dude-bro.
"turn the other cheek, brah!" -Joshua Christ to his Cousin Jay Bro "the Baptist". while playing Call of Duty
Pm_me_yuri_animemes · 1 points · Posted at 06:14:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I aways upvote Drake and Josh.
SvenDia · 1 points · Posted at 06:28:31 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Are we talking about the old or New Testament
Rektonhell · 1 points · Posted at 06:29:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Im jesus now
aaronr_90 · 1 points · Posted at 06:50:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't understand why we don't call these people by their actual names.
SvenDia · 1 points · Posted at 06:55:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Please don't make assumptions about what I've read or haven't read. I was merely using Wikipedia to quickly confirm what I've read in multiple books and other places. Until you've seen my bookshelves, I'd think twice about attacking my credibility.
username192873 · 1 points · Posted at 08:21:47 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
in some languages joshua of old testaent has same name as jesus, except he's called "Jesus (son of) Nun"
jackofalles · 1 points · Posted at 08:33:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Time to start re-writing all the songs...
cuttysark9712 · 1 points · Posted at 09:48:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
As a Joshua, my converted to Judaism stepson will be mystified and charmed to know this, I hope.
DawkTuxBWI · 1 points · Posted at 10:31:19 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
God damn it Josh!
Dr_Farticus · 1 points · Posted at 10:35:02 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Chinese whispers killed religions credibilty.
digital-help · 1 points · Posted at 15:09:02 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
why are we translating names ?
peter-pickle · 1 points · Posted at 15:17:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Josh Loves You!
Josh Saves!
Josh Christ!
Josh Freaks!
Josh! That hurts!
slayman2001 · 1 points · Posted at 15:15:50 on December 13, 2016 · (Permalink)
Once you start learning something like this, I would guess that an inquiring mind would want to learn more about how the bible is changed in translation, and how these translations change or obscure our understanding. What is "Christ", what does "Messiah" mean, what does "Matthew" mean, what does "Barabbas" mean, etc.? Now that you know that Jesus was Joshua, perhaps you might investigate who Joshua was in the Hebrew religion. You might be surprised to discover that he was the focus of a Jewish sect that revered him greater than Moses. You might discover that the idea of a preexistent spiritual son of God was not a novel idea among the Jews anyway. Paul’s contemporary, Philo, interprets the messianic prophecy of Zechariah 6:11-12 in just such a way. In the Septuagint this says to place the crown of kingship upon “Jesus,” for “So says Jehovah the Ruler of All, ‘Behold the man named ‘Rises’, and he shall rise up from his place below and he shall build the House of the Lord’.” This pretty much is the Christian Gospel. Philo was a Platonic thinker, so he could not imagine this as referring to “a man who is compounded of body and soul,” but thought it meant an “incorporeal being who in no respect differs from the divine image” whom “the Father of the Universe has caused to spring up as the eldest son.” Then Philo says, “In another passage, he calls this son the firstborn,” and says “he who is thus born” imitates “the ways of his father.” (Richard Carrier, Not the Impossible Faith, pp. 250-251).
thefuglyduck · 1 points · Posted at 20:23:16 on December 17, 2016 · (Permalink)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMkJuDVJdTw
youtubefactsbot · 1 points · Posted at 20:23:24 on December 17, 2016 · (Permalink)
bot info
GleeUnit · 0 points · Posted at 21:37:57 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
How awkward! It's a good thing that nothing else has ever been mistranslated over thousands of years of Christianity, thus avoiding the risk of basing modern policy on antiquated ideas that may not have ever even existed in a literal sense in the first place. Phew.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 19:38:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
JeddHampton · 1 points · Posted at 20:28:50 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That would just be Hebrew to English.
choochoomarktwain · 1 points · Posted at 20:35:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
In Hebrew its Yehoshua.
Shorter variations include, "Yossi" or "Yoseph". You've heard Jossie or Joseph.
elev57 · 2 points · Posted at 20:44:24 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yoseph is a different name from Yehoshua. Yoseph means "God will increase". Joshua means "God is salvation". They are related in that they are both theophoric names using "Jah" as a basis.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 22:43:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Do you really think Yehoshua is a more accurate transliteration than Yahushua? What's trustworthy about vowel pointings if they aren't original to Ibrit? There might have been many efforts made to try to cover up the Tetragrammaton.
choochoomarktwain · 1 points · Posted at 22:50:50 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Apologize for leading you on like that. I wasn't commenting on those specifics. For the purposes of my comment both were interchangeable. You'll have to ask someone else about that.
cyrusdoge · 1 points · Posted at 21:15:36 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Cheezits
LeJoshinator · 1 points · Posted at 21:20:20 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's my name!
nooneswife · 1 points · Posted at 21:35:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
TIL if you say Jesus backward, then God backward, you say sausage dog.
sorvis · 1 points · Posted at 22:04:09 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
no wonder he doesn't answer me , i have been using the wrong name?!?
Soul_Overflow · 1 points · Posted at 22:21:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
No. It would be Yahshua.
redditmunchers · 1 points · Posted at 22:23:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Most Christians who have studied the bible a little bit will know this.
mr_skolky · 1 points · Posted at 22:39:54 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Shout out to my homie Josh who mows my lawn.
smitty057 · 1 points · Posted at 22:43:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jeebus
weneednobadges · 1 points · Posted at 22:46:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
What about Jebus?
knightofastley · 1 points · Posted at 23:48:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I am Josh and I feel rather lordish and savioury after reading this.
Zoklett · 1 points · Posted at 00:11:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
As someone who spoke fluent Hebrew as a child and read the tweet rah several times as well as the New Testament once it has always boggled my mind how not only different they are but how sure people are that the scripture they are reading is verboten. How are you so sure your doctrine is the more accurate one when it's translated from one ancient language you don't know to another ancient language you don't know before being translated into one you understand. The original could say anything and your book could be entirely made up and fabricated and you really wouldn't ever know. Not saying the book is any BETTER in Hebrew, but if you the only version of the book you've read is in English that is not the original story or verbiage. Not even close.
Edit spelling
nomad80 · 1 points · Posted at 02:01:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's where original & interlinear text comes in handy for the more serious students. And there are enough of them to address any grave problems. The accounts of Paul cover most of the standard objections by the Jewish brotherhood
Zoklett · 1 points · Posted at 06:09:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't know Paul and his fluency in Latin, Greek, and Hebrew but it would seem to me that if there are that many discrepancies in not just verbiage used but also diction - Hebrew and Aramaic are simply not spoken like Latin or even Greek - Paul would have to have an extraordinary knowledge of regional colloquials that predate his existence by at the very minimum a thousand years. Of course, if you omit the entirety of the Old Testament including the creation story, then perhaps one could make the argument that Paul was able to accurately transcribe things. I just don't see how it would be possible for someone with minimal knowledge of the culture and language could possibly assert themselves an expert on a book that was written by said culture in said language. Hell, even when you are fluent in Hebrew some of it doesn't match up because it's in ancient Hebrew, which is the equivalent of reading Olde English. So, I'm not an expert on Paul and I'll look that up, but if I recall correctly he was in Psalms which is far far later than the Old Testament, which is what I'm calling on.
nomad80 · 1 points · Posted at 06:18:08 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ah, I assumed you were familiar since you said you read the NT
Paul was a Roman citizen by birth, Greek as his first language, Jew by lineage & deeply rooted in Pharisaic traditions, hence his earlier persecution of the early Church - addresses a lot of your doubts
Perhaps some reading may help; wiki is a reasonably fair place to begin; from the NT Acts onwards covers a lot
Zoklett · 1 points · Posted at 07:34:17 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I did, but it was a long time ago and I did read it over and over like the Torah. I looked up his Wikipedia. Pretty interesting.
nomad80 · 1 points · Posted at 08:51:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It was a life less ordinary, indeed
D-Shap · 1 points · Posted at 00:27:13 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Technically not true. Top comment mentions it but Jesus actually translates to ישו - or, Yeshu. The root of the word is the same and has a similar meaning, but does not translate. to Yehoshua (Joshua). its mostly a difference in tense and speaker/pronoun
Edit: turns out his name actually is Yehoshua bar Yosef. (Bar = son of). He is even recorded in some Jewish texts i believe. A descendant of Noach
BrianADavis · 1 points · Posted at 00:52:49 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Actually, the Hebrew word is Yeshua (not Joshua), and it literally means "I save.". Implying "I, God, save". An interesting note; Yeshua was one of God's names in the old testament. The name is also a prophecy that one day, God, would send a savior to Israel. Of course, today, we now know that savior to be: Yeshua Ha-Mashiach, aka Yeshua the anointed or in greek, Jesus the Christ.
PM_ME_YOUR_TANK · 1 points · Posted at 00:53:19 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
TIL my name is Jesus in Hebrew, I think.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:55:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's almost as if these are fictional stories written hundreds of years after the "fact" and after passing the stories down verbally over generations.
bjb406 · 1 points · Posted at 02:13:10 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It kind of makes you think about how ridiculous to take the bible at face value as "the word of god". Considering it has been translated from one language to another several times, was heavily edited upon its adoption by the Roman Empire, and again by countless monarchs and pontiffs, and many of the authors are either completely anonymous, were born hundreds of years after the events in question took place, or both.
johnknoefler · 2 points · Posted at 02:58:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
We do have the original Hebrew. It's only got a few small spelling changes.
SvenDia · 1 points · Posted at 05:25:44 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No we don't. All we have are fragments of copies. The originals don't exist, and it's not until 150-200 years later that we have large fragments. So there's no way of knowing what the language the originals were in, but Greek is more likely.
johnknoefler · 1 points · Posted at 06:02:29 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wow!. It's like I stepped into an alternate world where no one remembers how to read and comprehend. We do indeed have the original Hebrew. We don't of course have the original copies. No one does. But if you understand Hebrew culture and Jewish culture you would realize that they are meticulous about making exact copies. If you did your homework you would know that the scrolls recovered by Israel are almost exact copies that match modern copies. This is illistrative of the exactness of the copy process. Then, in addition to this, every one of the original churches copied down the books of the bible and sent these copies off to other churches. Over that time more than enough copies were made to duplicate the ancient scriptures several times over.
And yes, these letters were for the most part, in Greek. But translated back to Hebrew they give an almost exact word for word copy back into the original text. And yes, the Hebrew scribes did indeed continue the copy tradition in Hebrew. This is the Hebrew the Dead Sea Scrolls were written in. So we have it in both Ancient Hebrew and Greek. Not only that, the translation style from Greek to Hebrew leaves it's Hebrew style in the Greek. So we can know for certain that the Greek texts were translated into Hebrew. Sorry you misunderstood me. And, once again, we have the original Hebrew that the Greek is based on.
SvenDia · 1 points · Posted at 06:33:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
From Wikipedia, which confirms what I have always heard and does not mention Hebrew as an option at all for the New Testament. "Most biblical scholars adhere to the view that the Greek text of the New Testament is the original version.[10] However, there does exist an alternative view which maintains that it is a translation from an Aramaic original, a position known as Peshitta Primacy (also known in primarily non-scholarly circles as "Aramaic primacy"). Although this view has its adherents, the vast majority of scholars dispute this position citing linguistic, historical, and textual inconsistencies."
johnknoefler · 1 points · Posted at 06:35:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The name used in the Greek and transliterated several times over is the exact name used in the Hebrew Old Testament. If you read a bit you would realize this. Study a bit more before using Wiki. It's hardly a scholarly work.
Rosebunse · 1 points · Posted at 02:38:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think you have to see it from a nonliteral, yet historical perspective. You shouldn't take everything in it as literal fact, but you can get a better perspective on things when you consider how they were influenced by historical events.
ZVAZ · 1 points · Posted at 02:47:47 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hopefully someday people realize language is provisional and that 'The Word' biblically is just meant to cement your confidence in words as truths. Words truly only carry provisional value: they help us cross-reference things easier rather than pointing at them, words can be used in an object's absence.
IRPancake · 1 points · Posted at 02:58:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Kind of makes you wonder how many other things were lost in translation, considering the original Bible was written in a dead language.
villageelliot · 1 points · Posted at 04:20:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Another consequence of this I learned about is that the 'virgin' in virgin Mary was actually a mistranslation from 'young woman'
VanillaSkyHawk · 1 points · Posted at 07:23:12 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
K
ragnarokda · 1 points · Posted at 01:35:45 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
I learned this from the book "Lamb" by Christopher Moore. Really fucking great book.
yonachan · 1 points · Posted at 05:09:14 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
These kinds of articles make me wonder what else the translations could have changed from the original work. Once it's gone from greek, to latin, to german, to english, etc., it might not be anywhere close to the original.Just something to keep in mind.
[deleted] · 0 points · Posted at 22:45:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
nomad80 · 1 points · Posted at 02:17:31 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Anyone with a basic understanding of languages and transliteration across multiples of them, would know that "error" is desperate reaching
hOprah_Winfree-carr · -2 points · Posted at 00:01:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
; - )
[deleted] · 0 points · Posted at 21:18:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So if I say "Jesus fucking Christ" I'm not taking the lords name in vain?
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 21:52:20 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, you still are.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 22:11:24 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So, if I say "Joshua fucking Christ" I'm in the clear?
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 22:12:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nope, that's verboten too.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 22:17:04 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Is it the Christ part getting me every time? Does that mean I can use "Jesus!" with impunity.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:25:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Haha, nope!
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 22:27:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Joshua!"?
[deleted] · 0 points · Posted at 03:58:36 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think it's more the intention. Go swear by Dan who lives down the street.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 04:45:36 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Joshua would be proud of your vague reference
kombatunit · 0 points · Posted at 21:59:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Also named Tetragrammaton
zeldaisaprude · 0 points · Posted at 22:06:20 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
TIL I am Jesus.
Middle name is Christopher too.
I am literally Jesus Christ. Bow the fuck down plebs.
LuniWin · 0 points · Posted at 23:53:19 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
This is fairly common knowledge.
Why is this so highly upvoted?
Spider__Jerusalem · -2 points · Posted at 20:30:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Question to the scholars of Reddit, there are people who say that Jesus actually means "Earthly pig". Is there any truth to this?
choochoomarktwain · 4 points · Posted at 20:42:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Just retarded. The name Joshua is Yehoshua.
Yeshua in Hebrew is a verbal derivative from "to rescue", "to deliver".[8] Among the Jews of the Second Temple Period, the Biblical Aramaic/Hebrew name יֵשׁוּעַ Yeshua‘ was common: the Hebrew Bible mentions several individuals with this name – while also using their full name Joshua. This name is a feature of biblical books written in the post-Exilic period (Ezra, Nehemiah, and Chronicles) and was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, though Haggai and Zechariah prefer the spelling Joshua. Strong's Concordance connects the name יֵשׁוּעַ Yeshua`, in the English form Jeshua (as used in multiple instances in Ezra, Nehemiah, and 1 and 2 Chronicles), with the verb "to deliver" (or, "to rescue").
To talk about english meanings and all that is irrelevant once you go directly to the Hebrew source of the name.
Spider__Jerusalem · 2 points · Posted at 20:47:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I was hoping someone would look at the link and explain if it's wrong exactly what about it is specifically wrong, though I recognize that may be time consuming. I guess you've sort've done that. While I get your argument, I was curious what merit that guy's argument had.
choochoomarktwain · 4 points · Posted at 20:59:35 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm Jewish so I'm not invested in that.
I don't believe Jesus is a God or holy or anything, but the literature says he was Jewish. So I can explain to you why none of their analysis matters from a Jewish perspective, and logically it shouldn't matter from a Christian perspective.
Here's why: I can tell you that it's irrelevant what his greek name or latin name is because it's just as relevant as his martian name. None of them matter. The only name that matters is his Hebrew name because of the implications it had in Hebrew, the holy language. So the only analysis that should be done is of his Hebrew name and what it means. Everything else is irrelevant.
If I convert his name into Chinese and start talking about the root words that are triggered in the Chinese language, you'd say it's irrelevant. Imagine his name was chi-sah in chinese (making this up). Chi means seed and sah means oyster (making this up). All of these break downs are arbitrary because his name was never supposed to be in Chinese or any other variation. So breaking down what it means in other languages is fun but pointless.
So it's the same with latin or greek. Jesus didn't speak those languages. He knew Hebrew and Aramaic and all of the conversations he had were in Aramaic.
So breaking down the root words of the Gospel in Latin/greek mean nothing since he never intended for you to care about the root word of a Greek word he said since he didn't know Greek/Latin.
Spider__Jerusalem · 1 points · Posted at 21:44:31 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Interesting perspective. I agree the only thing thing that matters is what was said in the original language.
There are some who believe that Jesus was a historical figured seized by the Roman's and lifted up as "God" because what he really taught was submission to authority, which worked well for Romans. As you say, everything he taught was in Hebrew and Aramaic. Those who adhere to the aforementioned theory suggest that it wasn't until later, after his teachings were translated into Greek and Latin, when the so-called distortion of his teachings took place, along with the "perversion" of his name into a jab at Christians who couldn't read or speak Latin by calling him a pig. I'm curious how much of that is bullshit. Some of it is convincing because it explains why the Christ myth has so much in common with other myths, they were just ascribing features of other deities to Jesus to make him more of a convincing god figure.
choochoomarktwain · 1 points · Posted at 22:04:20 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I've read the Gospels but I don't really see how he taught submission to authority as a general rule?
It seems to be a little bit of both. Sometimes he would attack authorities he didn't agree with or who he felt were uninformed. Other times he would bolster authority (obviously God's).
Perhaps they would argue that when they wrote the Gospels in Greek that it was influenced by Jesus so that he intended those words be used. Who knows.
Spider__Jerusalem · 1 points · Posted at 22:12:20 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Well, there are a few examples from the gospels, "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's," "Put your sword back in its place. . . for all who draw the sword will die by the sword," and then outside the gospels in the New Testament there's 1 Peter 2:13-25, Romans 13, though I suppose the latter two examples are technically not Jesus' teaching.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 22:55:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Willing to go back and forth researching prophecy with me?
choochoomarktwain · 1 points · Posted at 23:17:57 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah of course. I just didn't understand what the argument was that you were making exactly?
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 23:24:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You mixing me up with someone else?
choochoomarktwain · 1 points · Posted at 23:25:25 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah, maybe. It's been a long day.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 23:51:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
:P
How about an hour or so of live chat sometime in future? Non-Pauline Messianic who loves Torah and has issues with mainstream Christianity maybe.
sushilantern · 2 points · Posted at 07:50:30 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
He just doesn't have any proof or support. He makes a lot of tenuous and unfounded connections
borkmeister · 1 points · Posted at 22:38:31 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It is a completely context-free etymology that pulls an English pronunciation apart into constituent "roots" that have no connection to the purported sources. You could take any word at all and break it into greek-ish sounding roots and then find a backwards meaning.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 22:53:13 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
If beings tried to distort a True Name, would it really be a first? Jeremiah 23:26-27.
choochoomarktwain · 1 points · Posted at 22:53:50 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make?
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 23:35:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Who knows what's true in regards to what is referred to on sabbathcovenant.com, but is it illogical to think that there might have been some evil motives behind some Name corruption in general?
[deleted] · -1 points · Posted at 02:30:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus Christ and Mohammed both basically told their followers, "Do not make a religion about me. I'm just a man, same as you. I've had some dreams that I talked about." Their followers did not follow their request, so hundreds of years after, we've killed each other over 2 men who just related their dreams. We all have dreams. Religion is all created by us faulty humans, and have nothing much to do with God.
johnknoefler · 6 points · Posted at 02:56:23 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Bullshit on both counts.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 11:08:27 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That is your opinion, I gave mine, not interested in an internet argument on this subject. I've heard that God likes to be looked for. my life experience is not yours. That's cool. Live the best life you can, that'll be enough. TLDR: IMO, this life is kindergarten. Share your blocks with others, don't hit others. Do the best you can to be the best person you can be. That's enough to graduate to the 'first grade', whatever that is. Have a nice day. :)
SvenDia · 2 points · Posted at 05:06:35 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
We make an idol out of fear and call it God.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 11:19:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Some do exactly that, live in fear. That's due to their believing in their religious leaders, who attempt to instill that fear in others in order to control their 'followers'. Blind trust in your 'leaders', well, you pay that ticket, you takes that ride. Those people are called fanatics, be they athiests or 'believers' in whatever their 'snake oil' leader convinces them.
RECOGNI7E · -2 points · Posted at 23:18:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
shhhhhh, the religitards will have your head
tylermon2 · -3 points · Posted at 23:18:15 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The Bible and religious leaders can't even get the guys name right yet people still follow and believe in all of it? Wake up people. Jesus isn't even Jesus. 😂
choomguy · -1 points · Posted at 23:32:15 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So the whole Christian religion is a sham?
spring_theory · -3 points · Posted at 22:38:22 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Finally, solid proof that God is a superstition and Jesus was a fraud.
Ain't nobody looking to a dude named Joshua for salvation.
burritosandblunts · -11 points · Posted at 18:17:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Huh. It's like there might be inconsistencies in the translation of the Bible!
OrganicMicroscopes · 4 points · Posted at 22:44:36 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
When should we ever 100% rely on a translation of anything? How about we study using concordance and the LXX and dead sea scrolls and more?
burritosandblunts · 3 points · Posted at 22:51:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I wonder how I could translate my lighthearted joke post into something people didn't get butthurt and technical over?
Random-Miser · 2 points · Posted at 01:05:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't think he understands that an Omnipotent/Omniscient Deity would have complete control over how his "word" was translated, making a mistranslation either intentional, or impossible.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 23:38:55 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I didn't downvote your comment there and you actually have one or more very valid point maybe. ::Passes a peace burrito and peace blunt::
[deleted] · 9 points · Posted at 18:23:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not really. Even early translations of the bible like the Vulgate are very accurate. Names sound different, but that's fairly typical in translations.
pfp-disciple · 3 points · Posted at 19:07:57 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
There's translation and transliteration. Names are often transliterated. As I heard recently, Stephen is transliterated from the Greek for "crown". The former head of Apple isn't named "Crown Jobs."
Newgeta · 2 points · Posted at 22:24:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
bats ARE birds after all!
supafly_ · 1 points · Posted at 19:22:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The name translated to Joshua is completely distinct from the one translated to Jesus.
OrganicMicroscopes · 2 points · Posted at 22:50:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
You sure that's accurate? Christ and Yahushua ben Nun might both have a name that's spelled yod-heh-waw-shiyn-ayin. Who do you think is referred to in Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8?
supafly_ · 1 points · Posted at 23:29:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It was spelled out in another post here, but from what I know, there are a few places in the New Testament where Mary and later Jesus himself catch hell for naming her son (or being named) Jesus which refers to the Messiah. Joshua is a different name altogether.
From the current top post in here:
The Joshua in the verses you refer to is the Old Testament Joshua who ultimately led the Jews to the promised land after Moses died. He's a major figure in Christianity, Judaism and Islam.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 23:55:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
How interesting if both Christ and Yahushua ben Nun are both referred to with a Greek Strong's Number 2424? They might ultimately have the same Name.
You 100% sure there's a verse in which Miriam or Christ are criticised for His Name?
supafly_ · 1 points · Posted at 00:04:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
As for the Greek issue, the wiki entry on Joshua has this to say
As for Jesus being chastised for his name, I can't immediately find a source on, probably something I picked up in my 9 years at a Lutheran school. Basically the idea was that the prophecy of Jesus actually included the name and that calling himself the Messiah was blasphemy because he wasn't the Messiah.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 02:55:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
If יהושע is a more original name for a book of Joshua Joshua and Nehemiah 8:17 suggests that he was called ישוע centuries later, which seems to be more original? And if Zechariah 6:11-13 contains יהושע, does that not suggest that Christ had that as a birth name even if He is often called ישוע? Perhaps similar to Joshua and Josh or Jacob and Jake?
Have you looked much into something called the Mandela Effect? You might be remembering a verse or a story related to that.
[deleted] · -21 points · Posted at 18:49:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Well... when you're translating the story of the Egyptian god Horus into a new language to perpetuate a myth and create a new religion things happen.
EDIT: Yeah... downvote it you sheep... Jesus is mythology. Deal with it.
PhillipBrandon · 7 points · Posted at 20:36:10 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well if calling people "sheep" is what you find really dismissive of Christians, I have some bad news for you about the Bible...
[deleted] · 0 points · Posted at 20:44:39 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Indeed. I'm getting really tired of people thinking that stating a belief for which there is no proof is equal and opposite of stating there's no proof of that belief so it's therefore BS.
Withnothing · 5 points · Posted at 19:32:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Except none of those things Zeitgeist said happened to Horus first really exist in the myths
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 19:48:59 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] · -7 points · Posted at 19:51:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
No... are you unable to read? At no point did I write sheeple. Don't make shit up... that's the problem in the first place.
Who said I was an atheist... I don't believe in your god so I'm an atheist... again, making shit up.
Stop lying to make your point about your mythology being anything but mythology.
[deleted] · 0 points · Posted at 19:59:59 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] · -2 points · Posted at 20:02:02 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Way to edit your post after the fact.
Don't believe in much of anything apparently.
Iwtmaw · 1 points · Posted at 23:26:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's funny how you call people sheep, yet you're reguritating zeitgeist bullshit that has been debunked time and time again and the creator of the theory himself came out and said he made it up. Baahhhh
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 16:36:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
It's all made up... that's the point.
The bible is a parable.
Iwtmaw · 1 points · Posted at 17:13:28 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You're not comprehending what I'm laying down.
nomad80 · 0 points · Posted at 02:22:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Another "enlightened" recruit to the intelligentsia after an hour of the Zeitgeist
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 16:38:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Oh my goodness... so, you're saying I was spewing made up bullshit at you? And you have a problem with that?
The bible is a parable.
nomad80 · 0 points · Posted at 16:55:16 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Can't decide if your denseness is funnier, or your ability to get wound up like a looney toons character
[deleted] · 0 points · Posted at 03:56:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Might cut yourself on that edge and get tetanus.
Arknell · -9 points · Posted at 18:34:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So Jesus first screamed the walls of Jericho into dust, then he came back 600 years later and went on about pacifism. Ok. Great. Got it. Still gonna toucha the fishy.
monkeypowah · -3 points · Posted at 23:28:44 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's hilarious isn't, we have pretty well proved the Jesus myth is just recycled stories from centuries before. But still they turn up to praise him.
Z2DION · -3 points · Posted at 01:00:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
How exactly is this learning? This is retrograde theocracy propaganda.
Cataphractoi · 2 points · Posted at 03:09:18 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This is history.
wickedpavillion · 0 points · Posted at 21:37:09 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm sure that was the only thing lost in translation over two thousand years. The rest is bang on no doubt.
OrganicMicroscopes · 2 points · Posted at 22:41:37 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
When should we ever 100% rely on a translation of anything? How about we study using concordance and the LXX and dead sea scrolls and more?
OferZak · 0 points · Posted at 21:50:14 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
u/korach
sonofchaos3 · 0 points · Posted at 21:55:50 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Another example of how wrong most religious shit people believe in is. It's like the exercise teachers have children participate in by telling the first kid in a line of kids a sentence and ask them to pass it on. By the last kid, it's not even close to what she said to the first kid. Lol
Nolas311 · 1 points · Posted at 22:15:36 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
we used to call that game Chinese whispers
jpicazo · 0 points · Posted at 21:59:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
reads title Heck yes
reads top comment :(
UWphoto · 0 points · Posted at 00:29:38 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Lost in translation. Again. Hope heaven's gate has a warning to avoid embarrassment...
reallybadjazz · 0 points · Posted at 06:59:29 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I still think it's like the whole jehova, yahweh, jenova, sephiroth mispronunciation deal. Really, he was way too high, and he was really Greek(in order to use it's all Greek to me later as a pun in life), as Zeus. And no one would ever talk to Zeus, they would just say Hey, and Zeus would go get high and fuck whatever. hint hint, cough cough. So Hazeus, or Chris(topher), "Joseph Jr." was in the desert and found some rue or something(though someone may look up and find that rue does not grow in that region) started having an induced all in one multiple personality dissociation schizophrenic time trip that overlapped everything, and became so scatterbrained and mistranslated that we have too many versions of the "original text" that was really Zeus' over critical analyzing of his own writings, so he "deleted" them, and what we have is one of many copy and paste "guidelines" redefined by anyone channeling words, to which be redefine as "the" or "thee" word by those seeking reform and manipulation of the masses, especially those attending masses. Anyways, while people were trying to figure out what was going on with Chris, or Zeus, people tried talking with him when he was out of his mind, but a couple of them kept saying the perfect thing at the wrong time for his mind, maybe in hindsight, positive for growth. Saint Jimi, once said Hey Joe, after mishearing someone go on and say "Hey Zeus" Really fast, and with an accent, mind you, and maybe then, that's how this got started. God never really knew their name, and every name they called them didn't feel right to "God" especially "God", and then in a strange irony, even nature couldn't comprehend "God" and you get the proverbial fall from heaven, and "God" became Satan. Micheal the name is rhetorically asked, He who is like God?, and having no founding for his life as an alien or military science experiment of MkUltra type mishap stricken with a V for Vendetta plotline mixed in with a lot of cheesy references to seemingly irrelevant music from "past" music eras... because time clearly becomes irrelevant, and Zeus winds up sobering up to face John Connor in the next Terminator movie after the next Terminator movie to fit into this whole shebang.
PC_OOS · 0 points · Posted at 08:15:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Imagine if it translated into Justin. Kek
GrandviewKing · 0 points · Posted at 16:26:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
And what is more infinite than nothing?!? Seriously... everything else has defined limits even simply a start/beginning...aka the universe->Big Bang so while it's size may or may not be finite, we know there is likely a "leading edge" of the universe otherwise paradox.. Edit- yes mathematically 0 is nothing/absence I guess, though anything quantifiable has substance I might argue; I guess I was speaking from a philosophical/semantic perspective; and playing off -zero- being an ellipse..
chatrugby · 0 points · Posted at 15:16:21 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
That whole "he shall be named Immanuel" just goes out the window then?
[deleted] · -17 points · Posted at 17:07:56 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So glad my name isn't Joshua.
[deleted] · 17 points · Posted at 17:27:46 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah, that would've really affected you one way or the other.
[deleted] · -27 points · Posted at 17:36:26 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ignorance would be blissful as if I knew that I shared the same name as the christians messiah. I would strangle my mother.
[deleted] · 17 points · Posted at 17:42:12 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
/r/madlads
[deleted] · 12 points · Posted at 21:41:14 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
How edgy of you.
[deleted] · -10 points · Posted at 22:05:47 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
How hipster and trendy of you to use a lame neckbeard term to express... nothing.
[deleted] · 10 points · Posted at 22:44:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hipster, trendy, lame, and neckbeard at the same time? Interesting.
[deleted] · -5 points · Posted at 22:51:43 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
How edgy of you
[deleted] · 8 points · Posted at 02:16:11 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I feel like you're think you're being clever, but you aren't. Someone disagreeing with you isn't edgy. Saying you'd strangler your own mother if you shared the name with the messiah is the epitome of edge.
BodhisattvaAjita · 7 points · Posted at 22:07:49 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Setting the moral standard I see
[deleted] · -7 points · Posted at 22:43:54 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
A good moral standard could include:
Not naming your child after a holy figure
Do not mutilate children's genitals
Indoctrination (allow freedom to THINK)
[deleted] · 13 points · Posted at 02:17:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Says the person who just threatened to strangle his mother...
mjmannella · 2 points · Posted at 22:10:48 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Pretty sure getting your name changed would be much less homocidal
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:40:22 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Steve: formerly known as the Messiah.
mjmannella · 2 points · Posted at 22:43:01 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Still doesn't justify you killing your mom
[deleted] · 0 points · Posted at 22:44:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Didn't say kill
mjmannella · 4 points · Posted at 22:47:04 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Strangling is choking, and choking kills
[deleted] · 0 points · Posted at 22:51:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Strangling is not choking. And continued lack of oxygen kills. Not choking.
mjmannella · 2 points · Posted at 23:03:52 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Odd how the two are literally synonyms.
..which is exactly what strangling does...
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:00:49 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So piece of food stuck in your throat: you're strangling?
And there is a difference between a blood choke and an air choke. One kills, one merely puts someone in an unconscious state. And then strangling is different as well. It is used, I'm not condoning, as a sexual enhancement.
mjmannella · 1 points · Posted at 00:14:07 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, you can say the piece of food is strangling you, but that doesn't make any sense from a practical viewpoint. Strangling is perpetrated choking.
When you're leave someone unconscious for long enough, they will die.
Let's look at some definitions, shall we?
Looking at these, I'd say that strangling causes choking.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:59:45 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You are a moron. You have my rebuttal in your own previous statement. Your own words copied from their definition CLEARLY shows the difference.
Ohhhh, I think I know... You're a theist.
mjmannella · 2 points · Posted at 01:31:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
"I better insult him to prove I'm not losing!"
No. Both definitions clearly indication a reduction in breathing capability in one form or another.
Nah, I don't believe in that stuff. Maybe if you didn't think so much about strangling your mom, you wouldn't reach to conclusions out of nowhere.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 04:01:30 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hint: Don't fuel the fire of the stupid. You'll burn yourself and make them warm. Let them listen to the sound of silence.
runnin-on-luck · 2 points · Posted at 06:53:15 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Maybe he wanted to strangle her in a more...erm...intimate way?
Splarnst · 4 points · Posted at 19:08:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You drunk or something?
Lurkin_McLurk · -1 points · Posted at 20:38:16 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Transliterated his name in Hebrew is YAHUSHA. I've found that researching PALEO-HEBREW is the best way to figure out how to pronounce any name in the bible. Modern Hebrew w/ dialects can lead people in many directions and into arguments.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 23:07:34 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You get into Lew White or Fossilized Customs stuff?
Lurkin_McLurk · 1 points · Posted at 00:13:33 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not heavily but I have seen/read some of his stuff.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 04:54:04 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Where did you read that Yahusha was a better transliteration of יהושע than Yahushua?
Lurkin_McLurk · 1 points · Posted at 17:54:11 on December 12, 2016 · (Permalink)*
It took a couple of books and a couple of videos and multiple conversations with people who believe in both names for me to be absolutely comfortable with saying that the Messiahs name is YAHUSHA(Yahuah is Salvation) vs Yahushua(Yahuah cries out).
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 01:31:19 on December 13, 2016 · (Permalink)
Are you using YAHUSHA and Yahushua as transliterations of two separate Hebrew spellings? Do you believe His Name is יהושע?
Lurkin_McLurk · 1 points · Posted at 17:09:02 on December 13, 2016 · (Permalink)
how would you transliterate הושע ?
and ישע ?
and שוע ?
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 04:39:36 on December 14, 2016 · (Permalink)
I might be far from a Hebrew expert, but if I had to guess at a most accurate transliteration for those? Maybe Hushua and Yesha and Shua. How would you transliterate them and also יהושוע if Yahushua ben Nun is also called a six letter name with two waw/vav in Deuteronomy 3:21 and Judges 2:7?
Lurkin_McLurk · 1 points · Posted at 17:31:01 on December 14, 2016 · (Permalink)*
I am far from a Hebrew expert as well so no biggie :]. I would transliterate them as Husha, Yasha, and Shua using paleo-hebrew. For יהושוע I would say Yahushua and for יהושע I would say Yahusha, despite both of those names being Joshua in english. I would say that יהושוע (Yahushua) from Deuteronomy/Judges is not the messiah.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 06:19:50 on December 15, 2016 · (Permalink)
If הושע is translated into Greek as Ωσηέ, doesn't that suggest that Hushua is closer than Husha?
What does it mean for us if יהושע ben Nun is also called יהושוע? If it's an alternative spelling of the same name, does that not suggest they both contain four syllables?
Lurkin_McLurk · 1 points · Posted at 23:11:06 on December 16, 2016 · (Permalink)
that's the thing tho, in my mind, why would we need to go to greek to find the proper transliteration for something in hebrew? i think if we need to find any proper transliteration we should be going as far back in time and use paleo-hebrew because that's what came first. Modern hebrew is yiddish so for us to use anything else besides paleo-hebrew, to me, kinda seems like we're walking away from the source that has the answers we seek. יהושוע and יהושע are two different people in my eyes and those names don't have the same syllables to me.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 02:28:42 on December 17, 2016 · (Permalink)
Does Paleo Hebrew suggest Husha is a better transliteration of הושע than Hushua? How so, if so? A Greek transliteration might be far from an end of discussion solution to a question of what is a most proper English transliteration of it and at least help shed some light on how LXX translators thought it was pronounced though.
Who do you think is referred to in Deuteronomy 3:21 and Judges 2:7?
Lurkin_McLurk · 1 points · Posted at 18:04:57 on December 19, 2016 · (Permalink)
I pulled this from The Scriptures (ISR 1998).
DEUT 3:21“And I commanded Yehoshua(written יהושוע In the Tanakh) at that time, saying, ‘Your eyes have seen all that יהוה your Elohim has done to these two sovereigns. יהוה does the same to all the reigns which you are passing over."
Judges 2:7 "And the people served יהוה all the days of Yehoshua(written יהושע in Tanahk), and all the days of the elders who outlived Yehoshua(written יהושוע In the Tanakh), who had seen all the great works of יהוה which He had done for Yisra’ĕl."
By your question of who this is referring to are you asking me if I think that's the messiah? I am going to say no if that's the question. Just because another man has the same name as the messiah doesn't mean he's the messiah. There were probably hundreds of people living in those days with the name Joshua spelled either way, don't you think?
I would say yes to paleo being easier for pronunciation purposes because like i said earlier modern hebrew has yiddish all mixed in there as you can see from how the ISR transliterated Joshuas name using YEHO for יהו. We have to use everything that's at our disposal to come up with answers that makes sense to us because even guides that people swear on is the truth are wrong sometimes like the strongs concordance(Joshua H3091 Yehoshua ). There's a lot to use in there to find what's right but i won't agree with everything that's in there. Just how i'll even say that what i'm saying isn't absolutely correct, it's just where i'm at with information at the moment.
To me ישע is Yasha and שוע is Shua so it only makes logical sense to me that when i see Joshua's name spelled two different ways I'd pronounce them two different ways.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 05:05:10 on December 20, 2016 · (Permalink)
I might have came across wrong. Do you think Yahushua ben Nun is referred to in Deuteronomy 3:21 and Judges 2:7? If so and yet He is called a name with an extra waw/vav in those, do you have any theory as to why?
Lurkin_McLurk · 2 points · Posted at 16:07:45 on December 20, 2016 · (Permalink)
I do not have any theory as to why. Do you? I'd love some more info on this matter for my knowledge.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 03:13:30 on December 21, 2016 · (Permalink)
What's not possible, but what if a) there were two scribal errors or b) that was an alternative spelling of the same name that included an extra waw/vav or c) both? Any guess out of those yourself or a Lurkin McLurk letter d option? ;) Wouldn't it be nice to buy a complete Dead Sea Scroll collection?
Lurkin_McLurk · 1 points · Posted at 16:34:12 on December 21, 2016 · (Permalink)
That would be nice :] I was able to see the exhibit when it came through my area with my wife. I really liked seeing the artifacts and the different kinds of people having interest in the scrolls. oh man, those are good, I would throw in d) it was done on purpose to mess with us lol
m0nde · -1 points · Posted at 22:32:20 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Google Translate
BackslidingAlt · -1 points · Posted at 23:27:17 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Except that Jesus only appears in the New Testament, and that was not written in Hebrew
ApertureBear · 2 points · Posted at 23:41:40 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I mean... if you wrote my English name in Spanish, it wouldn't change what my name actually is. I'm pretty sure a Jew born in Jerusalem would have been named in Hebrew.
BackslidingAlt · 1 points · Posted at 23:46:24 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Probably Aramaic. Which would be Yesu
ApertureBear · 1 points · Posted at 23:47:51 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Cool thanks for the correction
DickDragger17 · -1 points · Posted at 23:30:06 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
How about a source other than Wikipedia?
KremlinGremlin82 · -1 points · Posted at 23:47:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
My aunt, uncle and cousins live in Israel and my cousin was named Yeshua. My great uncle, who is a rabbi, was a little sour that they named a baby Jesus's name.
cheesemoney217 · -1 points · Posted at 00:24:48 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yahushua is believed to be Jesus' real name; however, Yahshua is Joshua in Hebrew. Yeah, we probably spell Jesus' name wrong due to translation, but I believe that what matters is we identify that name with person/being Jesus. Like if you call me Carlo but my name is Charles, but you knew you were talking to me, that's what matters.
DankandSpank · -1 points · Posted at 00:41:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
A Must read is Christopher Moore's 'Lamb' a satirical story of the life of christ and his adventures as told by his lifelong best pal Eli, who is called Biff. It's a fucking hilarious mingling of fiction and fiction.
flautistburgerjoint · -1 points · Posted at 00:50:43 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This isn't really true considering Jesus was first mentioned in the New Testament which was originally Greek unlike the Old Testament. His name in Greek is Phonetically very close to Jesus, just more like spanish Jesus, Hesus.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 02:19:36 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes, his name was written with the Greek and Latin version, but his actual name was likely Yeshua or something of the sort.
flautistburgerjoint · 1 points · Posted at 06:17:39 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
RIGHT. I'm an idiot
[deleted] · -1 points · Posted at 03:02:54 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The upvotes in this TIL make me lose faith in humanity
[deleted] · -1 points · Posted at 03:32:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] · -1 points · Posted at 04:16:08 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Meh, who gives a fuck. Christians, Muslims, Jews. Just too much attention-whoring. It's incessant.
Madclown88 · 0 points · Posted at 04:48:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yea, kinda like those man made climate change freaks. Those guys are like a cult.
jeepdriver54 · -1 points · Posted at 04:36:52 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus, Mohamed and Buddha never existed. All were invented to control the masses. If the masses realized there was no "afterlife" we would have nothing but chaos.
iamtheman3006 · -11 points · Posted at 21:29:18 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Even more likely he didn't exist, so the character's name can be whatever your delusion desires.
sweezinator · 5 points · Posted at 22:00:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
SO BRAVE
Newgeta · -5 points · Posted at 22:25:33 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
hes not wrong though =/
OrganicMicroscopes · 4 points · Posted at 23:06:12 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
You think He's blasphemously referred to by Christ rejecting Jews in the Talmud and yet did not exist?
Do you think there were enough Christians around in 64 AD for a massive Italian Peninsula fire to be blamed on them? What would it take to convince a huge multitude of people to believe an imaginary person walked around a few decades prior?
Newgeta · -1 points · Posted at 23:12:32 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The same thing it takes for a multitude of people to thing an invisible wizard in the sky does, a person or group of people, who wanted control.
OrganicMicroscopes · 4 points · Posted at 23:30:15 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
What control would a Christ rejecting Jew get by referring to Christ in the Talmud?
If you think the big conspiracy is Pro-Christ and Pro-Book of Genesis, then who controls mainstream media and education and who dropped the ball in the 20th century? Did a Christian put novus ordo seclorum on dollars bills next to occultic symbolism associated with freemasonry and Egypt?
There might be a lot of corruption and hypocrisy in a mainstream Christian Church, but what should be held against Christ personally?
Newgeta · -2 points · Posted at 23:36:42 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think so yes, if you really were the incarnate son of an almighty god, you would be able to instantly stop any and all atrocities that humans committed in your name with just a thought.
I would blame anyone who could save a little kid from getting raped with a thought but didnt.
OrganicMicroscopes · 3 points · Posted at 00:08:22 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Should there be an angelic police force standing around not allowing anyone to do anything that's wrong? There might be a wheat and tares situation currently that makes it less than ideal long term whether that's the eventual answer or not.
On a related note?: Have you read much about quantum physics and Schrodinger's cat and a Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser experiment? How about we not use those as an excuse to refrain from stepping in for someone who is being hurt in an evil way, but who even knows what another is actually experiencing from a personal point of view?
Newgeta · 1 points · Posted at 00:24:43 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
A diving omniscient being wouldn't need to stand around, it wouldnt need an angelic force, by its own omnipotence it would just know.
Back to your original question, ill repeat my answer, yes, i would blame ANY being for not saving little kids from being raped.
I read about phase mechanics in college, its deep stuff, coexisting quantum states ect... I'm not quite smart enough to understand it at more than like an atmospheric level, why do you ask?
OrganicMicroscopes · 3 points · Posted at 03:45:15 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I wasn't meaning to imply the Creator would only see an evil act with angels standing around and came across wrong maybe. Even if all is seen, what is the best response to something happening? Should everyone drop dead as soon as they do evil?
"5:8 If thou seest the oppression of the poor, and violent perverting of judgment and justice in a province, marvel not at the matter: for he that is higher than the highest regardeth; and there be higher than they." Ecclesiastes 5:8 (RNKJV)
"13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn." Matthew 13:24-30 (RNKJV)
Perhaps that can help explain a delay and killing off tares asap can end up harming wheat. Who knows exact motivations behind everything that has occurred and is occurring, but should we really criticise the Creator if the Creator sees a much bigger picture and much more clearly than we do? There might even be quantum immortality related ideas and multiple timeline related ideas and reincarnated justice related ideas and so on that could possibly come into play when it comes to explaining why things happen.
Newgeta · 1 points · Posted at 13:38:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I see, there might be, you might be right.
Conversely, its been shown time and time again in OUR reality, the most simple explanation is the correct one.
There has never, EVER, not even once, been a documented, pier reviewed, reproduce able answer of "magic" to any question.
We can agree to disagree here but I just wanted to give you the answer of yes, I would blame any deity if they let old men stick their penai into unwilling children, any deity that allows that is not worthy of praise anyway.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 03:49:25 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Should someone drop dead as soon as they try to partake in evil? What is an ideal solution?
Newgeta · 1 points · Posted at 11:52:31 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
An all knowing being (if it existed) would already KNOW the ideal solution and how to implement it.
Its not my place to fix the problem, I don't demand people kneel to me.
The fact that it doesnt/cant, makes it unworthy of praise and being called "all knowing, almighty"
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 12:21:02 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Could it be that the Creator sees a bigger picture than you and sees more clearly than you and the ideal solution involves what is already occurring? Who even knows what another is experiencing from their own perspective if you consider Schrodinger's cat and a Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser experiment?
Newgeta · 1 points · Posted at 12:24:20 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
It could be yes, even it it is, but hes STILL not deserving of my praise if he lets an old wrinkly penis ejaculate in in an unwilling child's asshole.
Again it loops back to the simple answer is the correct one, either the deity lets it happen, or the deity is a fake, I would blame them either way.
OrganicMicroscopes · 0 points · Posted at 12:34:42 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Have you experienced that personally? Do you even know who really has from their own perspective if you consider Schrodinger's cat and a Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser experiment?
Newgeta · 1 points · Posted at 12:35:38 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yep
OrganicMicroscopes · 0 points · Posted at 12:44:32 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well ::Hug::
How bout don't doubt that you are loved and cared about and that there is a Righteous Judge and things will be changing for the better?
You might have been completely innocent, but could it be that you did something in a previous life that helped lead to what happened? That might be way off base, but how many possibilities are there that could help explain why things happen if we see less than .0000000001% of all there is to see? Is a best course of action not to avoid criticising the Creator while understanding a speck of what there is to understand?
Newgeta · 1 points · Posted at 12:57:56 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nah, there is no hard evidence, zero, none, zip.
If there was any, I mean ANY, that stood up to peer review and could be reproduced at will, then ok MAYBE, but we all know how that goes.
<3 tho bye!
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 13:47:00 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
If you mean zero hard evidence for reincarnation, what would theoretically be hard evidence for that?
If you mean zero hard evidence for some unknown truth in general that helps explain why things happen, what would theoretically be hard evidence for that?
Newgeta · 1 points · Posted at 22:44:55 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm not dealing with theoretical anything.
I'm dealing an answer to the question "would I blame said deity" (assuming it was real), and the answer was "Yes, damn right I would!"
In the words of treebeard, "A wizard should know better!"
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 23:18:40 on December 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
It might just be that you will get an explanation for stuff one day and come away from it without being angry at the Creator.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 02:11:34 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh, and what control they got! The early christians were discriminated against, executed and excommunicated by the Temple and the Roman government.
OrganicMicroscopes · 4 points · Posted at 23:06:38 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
You think He's blasphemously referred to by Christ rejecting Jews in the Talmud and yet did not exist?
Do you think there were enough Christians around in 64 AD for a massive Italian Peninsula fire to be blamed on them? What would it take to convince a huge multitude of people to believe an imaginary person walked around a few decades prior?
iamtheman3006 · 1 points · Posted at 02:52:48 on May 20, 2017 · (Permalink)
Apparently a good zombie tale.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 05:47:28 on May 24, 2017 · (Permalink)
Are you a completely secular thinking brother?
iamtheman3006 · 1 points · Posted at 13:57:11 on May 24, 2017 · (Permalink)
As in I don't attribute anything to magic, yes. The idea that this is a serious question in 2017 is disturbing.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 07:59:06 on May 25, 2017 · (Permalink)
Do you have any theories concerned with a modern alien/UFO phenomenon or secret societies?
iamtheman3006 · 1 points · Posted at 12:45:11 on May 25, 2017 · (Permalink)
Do I come off as a conspiracy theorists, because I don't trust third party documentation of decades old events?
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 07:56:46 on May 26, 2017 · (Permalink)
I might have came across wrong and been looking for common ground more than trying to find something to point and laugh at you about. Is there anything you don't stand by a mainstream narrative on when it comes to history?
iamtheman3006 · 1 points · Posted at 14:57:18 on May 26, 2017 · (Permalink)
Nothing important.
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 06:33:50 on May 28, 2017 · (Permalink)
What would you do if WWIII was looking imminent and then greys or tall blonde nordics showed up and claimed to be benevolent primate evolving aliens or and savior elohim or both?
giullare · -8 points · Posted at 17:24:29 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So what's the plural of Jesus? Jesi? Jesodes? Jeces? Jesera? Jesus?
outdoorguy2 · -2 points · Posted at 21:54:30 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I tried to reverse translate this in google translate. Took Jesus in English translated to Latin then to Greek then to Hebrew, then copied the hebrew word that came up and translated from hebrew to english. Didnt work, came out Jesus. I trust Google. Long live Jesus.
Soltis51 · 3 points · Posted at 21:59:27 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I hope you're being sarcastic.
ecpackers · -2 points · Posted at 00:30:20 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
not really. but yes, and also no.
it all depends what 'scholar' translates it.
yhwh, yahweh, emanuel, jehova, Yeshua... literally has like 200 names
204777 · 2 points · Posted at 00:57:50 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Most of those are names for god not Jesus
Cataphractoi · 2 points · Posted at 03:15:01 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Correct, and that ignores that Judaism has more than one term for god, seeing as you are not allowed to say his name.
ecpackers · 1 points · Posted at 05:28:51 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
well, yhwh and yahweh are for jesus, and jehova is a different translation of yhwh, and yeshua is a different variation of joshua. so of all the ones i listed, that only leaves emanuel. which i'm not sure about.
204777 · 1 points · Posted at 17:58:03 on December 12, 2016 · (Permalink)
yhwh , yahweh , jehova are names for god Emanuel means "god is with us" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh
okcboomer87 · -2 points · Posted at 04:09:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus never existed. Or at least the biblical Jesus never existed. Find the evidence outside the bible. You won't
LoyolaProp1 · 2 points · Posted at 04:13:05 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So I've been wondering about this myself for a couple years now. Is there seriously no record of him except for a book written hundreds of years after his life? That's not exactly a primary source. I have no doubt he was a real man, but the Jesus from the Bible, performing miracles etc.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 04:40:09 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The New Testament wasn't written hundreds of years after Jesus existed. Check out Richard Bauckham's, Jesus and the Eyewitnesses. Bauckham is a NT scholar over in the UK. For someone more skeptical (who still does not doubt Jesus' existence or the ultimate historical reliability of the Gospels to tell us things about Jesus), look into Bart Ehrman's work disproving Jesus mythicism.
okcboomer87 · 1 points · Posted at 05:01:53 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
The Romans were great note takers. We have so many records of theirs still around. Seemingly menial stuff like records owed to people and work shifts. Not one mention of Jesus from the Romans. In fact the first writing of Jesus are dated nearly 400 years after his "death" . In fact The Romans were great note takers. We have so many records of theirs still around. Seemingly menial stuff like records owed to people and work shifts. Not one mention of Jesus from the Romans. In fact the first writing of Jesus are dated nearly 400 years after his "death" . I view Jesus like a comic book character. Different people wanted to write a story of a cool guy with superpowers so they stole stories from other religions to make a super bad ass. Jesus wasn't the first god to have a virgin birth, or a resurrection and the son references are almost certainly referring to the sun God Ra. Keep looking, you are on the right path. I grew up a believer my first 18 years and it took a long time to shake the churches indoctrination but over time things just didn't add up to the point where I was ready to just be my own person. Tldr Jesus was a comic book character for his time and no records exhaust of him.
izanhoward · -11 points · Posted at 22:15:04 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I know Hebrew, as my ancestors were killed and raped by sick Christian monsters. If you are Christian, you live a lie that people continuously make up every century. Your religion created many nations in the Eastern Hemisphere, and those are all based on lies. you are nations that are based on lies to get heretics to leave countries.
Alucardvondraken · 7 points · Posted at 22:15:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well aren't you an adorable bundle of hate.
MandoMark · 4 points · Posted at 22:36:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Geez, izanhoward, don't hold your emotions in like that! Let it out, tell us how you really feel!
izanhoward · -6 points · Posted at 22:56:00 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
it has been literally 2000 years since my family has had more than three lineages that survived thanks to Christians, Muslims, and Khans. I have 2 family members, and people deny that 20 people in my family were killed in gruesome ways. how were the 1900s for you Mark?
MandoMark · 3 points · Posted at 23:15:07 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The 1900's? Well let me see - on my mothers side I'm part American Indian, and part Polish/ Czechoslovakian (sp?). The AmerInd side was pretty much wiped out prior to the 1800 (Or shuffled onto reservations). The Polish side Immigrated to the US in just prior to WWII, the ones who stayed behind were pretty much wiped out by the Germans. The documentation is rather sketchy as you might understand.
On my fathers side I'm English and Irish, who immigrated as a result of the Irish Potato famine in the late 1800's/ early 1900's.
Everyone has shit happen to their family. Why not start hating on the Egyptians? The Pharoahs were doing a number on the Hebrews long before Christ, Mohammed or Ghengis Khan ever showed on the scene. I am truly sorry for your family's history and the hate that you carry.
Beastiebadboibam · -8 points · Posted at 22:33:59 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus aint real the bible is complete utter bullshit nothing more nothing less
[deleted] · 5 points · Posted at 01:35:32 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, if you aren't going to read the bible, you should probably spend that time reading a grammar textbook instead.
t0rankusu · -4 points · Posted at 20:12:53 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Proving that such fella by the name Jesus didnt walk the earth around 2000 years ago.... And thanks for pointing out the God and Christ are not NAMES, they are TITLES!!! Also proves that the only name of the creator is Yahweh! YHWH .....
OrganicMicroscopes · 1 points · Posted at 23:08:45 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
You think He's blasphemously referred to by Christ rejecting Jews in the Talmud and yet did not exist?
Do you think there were enough Christians around in 64 AD for a massive Italian Peninsula fire to be blamed on them? What would it take to convince a huge multitude of people to believe an imaginary person walked around a few decades prior?
timeiscoming · -3 points · Posted at 23:32:01 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
More secrets from the Bible:
The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross by John M. Allegro
genericname1231 · -4 points · Posted at 01:48:21 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
TIL another reason the bible is a crock of shit
Religifeefees need to die in a fire, go meet god faster
lab2stroop · -4 points · Posted at 02:07:41 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Fucking religious fuckheads.
SweedishPotatoBird · -5 points · Posted at 22:39:12 on December 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Thats wrong. The New Testament was written in Latin, therefore it would go from latin to English.
[deleted] · -5 points · Posted at 02:28:24 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
If jesus were like actually a real person that lived on this planet once, then i'm sure he'd be offended, then since he wasn't, fuck jesus.
OmegaX123 · 0 points · Posted at 02:36:04 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
As an agnostic/atheist, that's bullshit. He wasn't the son of some all-powerful sky father, but there's evidence that he at least was a person.
SvenDia · 0 points · Posted at 05:14:46 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not a lot actually. The Gospels were written 50-60 years later. The earliest books of the New Testament are attributed to Paul, about 20-25 years later, and he never met, nor ever refers to, a flesh and blood Jesus. But he had a vision, so we're supposed to believe him. In the earliest Gospel, Mark, there is no resurrection and no virgin birth. The end of Mark that does include a resurrection, was added much later.
OmegaX123 · 1 points · Posted at 05:29:03 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This part, at least, is extremely irrelevant. One does not have to be the product of a virgin birth, or resurrected, to qualify as 'a person'. In fact, all of it is irrelevant, because I'm talking about actual evidence, not 'evidence in the Bible'.
[deleted] · -1 points · Posted at 04:52:42 on December 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You're a fucking idiot if you actually believe that.
Lol but people have trouble believing in chemtrails, yeah okay dude, get a fucking clue.