I wonder what the average added weight from the expression of those genes is. The rounded face and generally overall added weight. Makes me think of this post about a young female with down syndrome that lost a bunch of weight to be a better gymnast or some other sport. The fatlogic ensued. "This is disgusting. Quit pushing society's norms on her." She, with below average mental capacity, made the choice to eat properly and get fit. Something that some fully developed people can't seem to understand.
arseiam ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 03:43:43 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I remember the fat logic around this. One of the very few occasions fat logic really made me angry. I work with people with DS and weight is a massive issue for most. The biggest problem is that they struggle understand the nuances of language "you're looking great" after a modicum of weigh loss often translates "I don't need to work so hard now" and the head fuck when bitching about "making them conform to societal standards" when we are literally trying to stop their health decline to the point where illness and death is a likely outcome.
Fuck people who think they know what's best for someone else without understanding the context. And double fuck those who publicly denounce people wanting to make positive change, especially those with disabilities.
This needs to be upvoted more. The calculation may be right in accounting for the extra weight from all the chromosomes; however it fails to account for the fact that people with Down syndrome will have very different morphology and these will most likely contribute to a lot MORE difference than just the two grams from the chromosome alone.
The calculation was almost analogous to saying that men would weigh 1-2 grams less than women on average because their Y chromosomes are lighter than X chromosome.
Yes. The calculation is correct, there is ~2 more grams due to chromosomes. However their conclusion that this translates into 2 grams added weight is incorrect because they didn't deduct for the displacement of cytoplasm.
Kantuva ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 03:34:07 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Now we need to know the volume and density of DNA vs the density of cytoplasm
๐๏ธ o99o99 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 06:15:20 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
DNA has a density of around 1.4g/cm3 . This gives 1.52 cm3 of extra chromosomes. Cytoplasm is mainly water, which has a density of 1g/cm3 and therefore the cytoplasm replacing the dna weighs around 1.52g, perhaps slightly more to account for ions dissolved in the cytosol. If I adjusted my original calculation, the extra chromosomes would only add on 0.5g on average :(
That being said, I don't believe cell volume is completely constant and could, for example, shrink if the person became dehydrated, although perhaps it's fair to say the mean volume of cytoplasm would still be ever so slightly more for someone with Down's Syndrome.
Your conclusion is incorrect as well. There's no such thing as a fixed volume for cells. Water will just diffuse in and out through the membrane to keep the osmotic pressure balanced. Osmotic pressure is determined by how much solute is inside the cell, which is determined by the balance of all the cellular biochemical reactions.
Yes, I know, I'm just saying that the net difference wouldn't be equal to the weight of the extra chromosome, but the difference between the weight of that chromosome and an equal volume of cytoplasm that would be missing.
Cells don't have a set constant volume. Water will freely diffuse in and out of a cell to keep osmotic pressure balanced across the membrane, and osmotic pressure is determined by how much solute is inside the cell. The effect of adding an extra chromosome into the cell will depend on how a chromosome interact with water molecules, whether it attract or repel them.
But blood cells, keratinized cells, and a few other types of cells have no DNA in them...
๐๏ธ o99o99 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 05:44:24 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fair point, but there are probably an almost equal number of muscle and liver cells that are polyploid (have more than 2 pairs of each chromosome) to cancel it out or at least make that difference less significant.
Isn't 30 trillion 3x1013 ? 3x1010 is only 30 billion.
hezur6 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:17:27 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Parent comment doesn't exist anymore, but 3ยท1013 is actually only 30 billion as long as you're European (or anywhere in the world where 1 billion = 1012 instead of 109 ). It's stupid to have that potential source of confusion around, but we'll have to ask whoever disagreed on the nomenclature in the first place. They're probably dead tho.
2 grams heavier is far from the statistically significance between normal weight group and overweight group though. Put them in a giant pool and no one will be able to notice it.
PsyJak ยท 346 points ยท Posted at 18:31:28 on May 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It might be just 2 grams, but it's weighing them Down.
such-a-mensch ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 18:41:39 on May 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'll wait to see this on r/goingtohellforthis...
JustinMGH ยท 102 points ยท Posted at 18:47:04 on May 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You probably won't. But maybe on r/imgoingtohellforthis
Keswik ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 02:39:31 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
/r/jesuschristreddit
Marx0r ยท 123 points ยท Posted at 18:24:58 on May 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Gives a new meaning to "I'm fat because of my genetics."
JBrad0322 ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 22:21:00 on May 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Makes sense because most of the HAES crowd is retarded.
deadhead94 ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 02:28:50 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not fat, I'm just big genomed.
Bifidus1 ยท 46 points ยท Posted at 20:08:21 on May 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wonder what the average added weight from the expression of those genes is. The rounded face and generally overall added weight. Makes me think of this post about a young female with down syndrome that lost a bunch of weight to be a better gymnast or some other sport. The fatlogic ensued. "This is disgusting. Quit pushing society's norms on her." She, with below average mental capacity, made the choice to eat properly and get fit. Something that some fully developed people can't seem to understand.
arseiam ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 03:43:43 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I remember the fat logic around this. One of the very few occasions fat logic really made me angry. I work with people with DS and weight is a massive issue for most. The biggest problem is that they struggle understand the nuances of language "you're looking great" after a modicum of weigh loss often translates "I don't need to work so hard now" and the head fuck when bitching about "making them conform to societal standards" when we are literally trying to stop their health decline to the point where illness and death is a likely outcome.
Fuck people who think they know what's best for someone else without understanding the context. And double fuck those who publicly denounce people wanting to make positive change, especially those with disabilities.
Kubrick_Fan ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:14:33 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So is Fat Logic a "bad" sub? I couldn't tell.
DrinkerofJuice ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 11:19:34 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's just making fun of fat people lying to themselves and others mostly. Can be a little mean spirited but I wouldn't say bad.
changyang1230 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:35:15 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This needs to be upvoted more. The calculation may be right in accounting for the extra weight from all the chromosomes; however it fails to account for the fact that people with Down syndrome will have very different morphology and these will most likely contribute to a lot MORE difference than just the two grams from the chromosome alone.
The calculation was almost analogous to saying that men would weigh 1-2 grams less than women on average because their Y chromosomes are lighter than X chromosome.
skunk_funk ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 21:39:34 on May 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do those extra chromosomes displace anything else that would have been there?
๐๏ธ o99o99 ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 21:53:41 on May 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I doubt that they cause an increase in cell volume since there's plenty of space filled by nothing but cytoplasm
skunk_funk ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 22:04:23 on May 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I'm wondering if they displace cytoplasm and if so, how much.
๐๏ธ o99o99 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 22:25:06 on May 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I would imagine there's simply less cytoplasm to account for the extra DNA, but I'm not a microbiologist.
mullerjones ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 22:26:15 on May 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
But if that were the case, wouldn't that gained weight be lost due to the smaller amount of cytoplasm in each cell?
EDIT: grammar
swampfish ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 22:35:41 on May 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes. The calculation is correct, there is ~2 more grams due to chromosomes. However their conclusion that this translates into 2 grams added weight is incorrect because they didn't deduct for the displacement of cytoplasm.
Kantuva ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 03:34:07 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Now we need to know the volume and density of DNA vs the density of cytoplasm
๐๏ธ o99o99 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 06:15:20 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
DNA has a density of around 1.4g/cm3 . This gives 1.52 cm3 of extra chromosomes. Cytoplasm is mainly water, which has a density of 1g/cm3 and therefore the cytoplasm replacing the dna weighs around 1.52g, perhaps slightly more to account for ions dissolved in the cytosol. If I adjusted my original calculation, the extra chromosomes would only add on 0.5g on average :(
That being said, I don't believe cell volume is completely constant and could, for example, shrink if the person became dehydrated, although perhaps it's fair to say the mean volume of cytoplasm would still be ever so slightly more for someone with Down's Syndrome.
lelarentaka ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:59:29 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Your conclusion is incorrect as well. There's no such thing as a fixed volume for cells. Water will just diffuse in and out through the membrane to keep the osmotic pressure balanced. Osmotic pressure is determined by how much solute is inside the cell, which is determined by the balance of all the cellular biochemical reactions.
swampfish ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:56:07 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Which supports the idea that the extra DNA displaces the cytoplasm rather than adds to it. The extra just diffuses out.
Aycoth ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 00:39:48 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's only assuming DNA is the same density as cytoplasm, which I doubt. Remember, when its immersed, volume dictates displacement, not weight.
mullerjones ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:44:21 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, I know, I'm just saying that the net difference wouldn't be equal to the weight of the extra chromosome, but the difference between the weight of that chromosome and an equal volume of cytoplasm that would be missing.
SerenadingSiren ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:21:22 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Isn't it possible that each cell is a bit more voluminous, not that the DNA displaces the little bit of cytoplasm?
Nulono ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:37:04 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
mullerjones ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:40:54 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You're right, sorry, English isn't my first language.
shenuhcide ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 08:29:55 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think the actual term for the fluid in the nucleus is nucleoplasm.
๐๏ธ o99o99 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:09:25 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
TIL. What's different compared to cytoplasm?
shenuhcide ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:28:54 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Likely just its location (being in the nucleus vs in the cell outside of the nucleus).
lelarentaka ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:05:51 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cells don't have a set constant volume. Water will freely diffuse in and out of a cell to keep osmotic pressure balanced across the membrane, and osmotic pressure is determined by how much solute is inside the cell. The effect of adding an extra chromosome into the cell will depend on how a chromosome interact with water molecules, whether it attract or repel them.
2074red2074 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 01:12:36 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But blood cells, keratinized cells, and a few other types of cells have no DNA in them...
๐๏ธ o99o99 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 05:44:24 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fair point, but there are probably an almost equal number of muscle and liver cells that are polyploid (have more than 2 pairs of each chromosome) to cancel it out or at least make that difference less significant.
2074red2074 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 06:15:52 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know, your skin is a pretty big organ and you have a lot of blood.
๐๏ธ o99o99 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 09:08:03 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You're probably right although I don't actually know how many extra chromosomes are in muscle cells
eaglessoar ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:31:11 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
New insult: you're about 2 grams too heavy
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:12:36 on May 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Cryokina ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:17:37 on May 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Isn't 30 trillion 3x1013 ? 3x1010 is only 30 billion.
hezur6 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:17:27 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Parent comment doesn't exist anymore, but 3ยท1013 is actually only 30 billion as long as you're European (or anywhere in the world where 1 billion = 1012 instead of 109 ). It's stupid to have that potential source of confusion around, but we'll have to ask whoever disagreed on the nomenclature in the first place. They're probably dead tho.
i_am_useless_too ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:16:07 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Why not a text version?
mathvault ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:34:08 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
2 grams heavier is far from the statistically significance between normal weight group and overweight group though. Put them in a giant pool and no one will be able to notice it.
sargeantbob ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 12:56:52 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
More mindless conversions on r/theydidthemath
dirtrox44 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 03:43:57 on May 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
2g ain't shit