Star Wars: The Last Jedi UNOFFICIAL Discussion [spoilers]
๐๏ธ unipleb ยท 920 points ยท Posted at 10:40:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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kievrob ยท 273 points ยท Posted at 22:05:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
"We are going to win because we donโt fight what we hate, but we save what we love."
Bitch, Finn was trying to save the surviving rebels that he thinks of as his only family, do you think he tried to destroy the cannon because he hated it?
slurpie10 ยท 170 points ยท Posted at 22:46:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
that cannon bullied finn in the academy
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 09:55:26 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
that line felt like one of those moments where, when shooting the scene, the director was like "daM BOYS !!! THAT'S IT- THERE'S THE KILLER LINE!!!!! GIVE IT TO EM"
but when she said it I just cringed really badly and any remaining hope I had left for this movie just went down the drain.
mcafc ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:30:53 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lol she was literally the only part of the movie I could complain about. Everything else was fine creative decisions.
thobek ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 03:10:05 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I groaned at that line... who talks like that. Finn should of first did an eye roll + sigh when she said it, then when she went in for the kiss he should of blocked it with his hand.. denied!
Fighting what you hate is kinda the sole principle of war.
_Ishmael ยท 123 points ยท Posted at 20:45:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Am I the only finding it really hard to believe how powerful the empire/first order is despite being beaten at almost every turn? A New Hope: Death Star gets destroyed but I accept that was only a small portion of the empire. Then the Empire Strikes Back, the empire regains some control. Then Return of the Jedi the second Death Star is destroyed, Vader is destroyed, and the Emperor is destroyed. The in The Force Awakens the good guys are still apparently losing. Okay, fine, then the First Order somehow has an even bigger and better Death Planet which is destroyed. Then in The Last Jedi, the First Order is STILL somehow dominating the resistance. Look I get this isn't a documentary but any victory the rebels have just feels cheap now because I know that in the next film the First Order will still be a massive threat because the plot demands it.
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 00:41:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Tbf in TFA, the Resistance is a small subsect of the Republic which gets wiped out by the First Order's starkiller. So atleast TFA had the Republic fill the void that was left in Episode 6 but in the Last Jedi, it makes no sense why the Resistance hasn't increased in strength and the First Order hasn't decreased in strength. Only reason why these things occur is because the plot demands it.
Right? I mean, they lost a Dreadnought, Snoke's capital ship, snoke himself, and a fuckload of other ships to like, 4 rebel ships and a small regiment of fighters and bombers.
The explanation is they put zero thought into any of this. The only way to save your sanity is to realize you should never put more thought into a story than the creators did. I still have trouble accepting this, thus the madness endures.
Another way to look at it. Our story is about the rebels resistance etc not about the empire/new order. We don't see their countless wins because that's the norm we see the exceptions which make stories worth telling.
I thought she agreed though because she came to the same conclusion in the evil cave thing.
Drama79 ยท 76 points ยท Posted at 15:06:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ah, the evil cave of...something. What was that glass? I don't suppose it matters, but that was a weird moment.
Also, RE: the parents, now JJ's back in the driver's seat for IX, he could well pivot it if he wants to. We'll see.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:33:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
wait, he's back? I presumed it would be another director. why was he not the one to direct VIII?
Drama79 ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 15:38:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The plan was different directors for each movie. Then JJ publicly said he was sad he didn't sign up for all three. Then Colin Trevorrow, who was signed for IX, made Book of Henry, and Disney took Star Wars off him. Three days later, they announced JJ was back in the chair.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:46:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
oh that's interesting. I hope JJ has a solid plan for IX if that is the case.
Oh yeah, the mirrors. I forgot that was a thing that happened.
Ianchez ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:24:52 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That cave is weird, but somehow I think it showed everything its cyclical, atemporal, we never saw Rey coming out of it, and she was talking in past tense.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:50:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 00:45:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It would make a certain amount of sense. Anakin came from nowhere, a slave junker on tatooine in the arse end of nowhere. Who became the most feared man in the galaxy, his son brought hope to a galaxy and his daughter destroyed an empire. His grandson wants to destroy both sides and it takes a daughter of junkers from a desert planet in the arse end of nowhere
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:30:28 on December 28, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:42:38 on December 28, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Meh, I liked them.
TareXmd ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 20:34:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He basically read her thoughts and used them against her to try to tempt her to 'be something'. I don't think he knows shit about her parents. Otherwise this would be really, really lazy writing.
I agree with that proposition. We've no reason to believe he's telling the truth. I mean, he did play Snoke like a fool, so he's proven himself crafty.
[deleted] ยท 364 points ยท Posted at 12:15:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I see you're in the "bargaining" stage of grief.
2rio2 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:37:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I mean we literally know thereโs a third film coming out that could easily recon her backstory ala Luke and Leia in ROTJ
I donโt believe he was lying in this film but if JJ wants he could decide to change that. A lot of the story is written as it goes so if JJ comes up with an interesting idea I wouldnโt be surprised if it happened.
If anything I'm surprised Snoke went out like a little bitch, we were all expecting him to be this huge threat that pulls the strings but he turned out to be a damp squib plot device. Or maybe he's just fooling and that was a force hologram or clone or something, I just don't think a character with this amount of buildup and mystery can go out without answering the important questions.
I liked it. I can live with not knowing who Snoke really is and how he came to be the leader. We'll probably know the answers to these questions in some other movie, just like with Rogue One.
Now we're left with a megalomaniacal Kylo Ren who struggles with his own emotions. We have not had a villain like that before. I have no idea what will happen of him, but he is far more interesting than the one-dimensional villain that was Snoke.
That's why I thought the change in pace was brilliant; basically every movie in the last 30 years kills off the villain in the last 15 minutes but here Snoke is being offed on the halfway mark leaving Kylo to fill his shoes as the leader with varying levels of success. It shook up everyone in the theatre when I saw it, made it even better that I didn't know any spoilers at all, total shock and awe stuff.
I liked it too. Kylo's recurring theme (and even Rey's) was to let go of the past and look to the future. Time to step up and be what you want. KR did that and so did Rey.
Waoeden ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 17:20:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No he is not. Kylo , besides being a weakling, seems he come out directly from a linkin park video.
his temper tantrums were made to fool Snoke into thinking he was weak and vulnerable.
Meanwhile Kylo was in full control and could hide his real intentions from Snoke.
Waoeden ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:35:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes sure. His temper tantrums, when snoke was not even close of him or paying attention, had a reason.............
Kylo has temper tantrums because he is edgy.And it doesnt help that Adam driver, despite being a decent actor, looks like he is about to cry any moment from now.
When Snoke was nowhere near him were the times that count the most.
Didn't you hear Snoke brag about how he can see Kylo's mind and "knows" everything about him, and every intention... Snoke was consumed with his over confidence that he was in control, that he was the most powerful. He was blind to reality.
Kylo knew all along, he was playing Snoke.
miter01 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:01:30 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not even close to him? Snoke force slammed Hux from god knows how far away, at least star systems.
Not paying attention? How would you know if the hyper powerful mind reader is paying attention to you or not?
Waoeden ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:45:56 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because the movie didnt imply he was.
I cannot make up something up that the movie is not showing me clearly or implicitly. And the movie NEVER implies OR shows that Snoke is omnipresent.
So no, you fellas are making up that Kylo has temper tantrums because he was ''playing Snoke up'' . Nope. Kylo has temper tantrums because he is edgy. Even his lines are edgy. Sometimes his lines appears to come DIRECTLY from linkin park songs.
In the next movie Kylo will have ANOTHER temper tantrum. And Snoke is, well, dead.
I mean, he smashed the elevator with his darkwing duck helmet, that even snoke told him was annoying and retarded - and in the last movie he took out a control panel with his light saber.
I blame Han and Leia for not offing him for torturing animals as a kid, because you know that beta kid was into that.
He's there least threatening bad guy ever because he's emotionally unstable, the exact opposite of Hannibal Lecter.
It's not that I think he's not dangerous, he's just not menacing. You might not want to be around him because he might kill you for exactly no reason, but people would avoid Snoke because he's peering into your soul and flaying your mind purposefully and methodically.
One is terrifying, the other is pathetically annoying but still dangerous. If I got killed by Kylo Ren I'd be more disappointed that I got offed by that emo loser than anything else.
What mystery? Can someone please point out a mystery being perpetrated by Disney because I have yet to find one. The only mystery seems to have been entirely conjured by fans and fans alone.
How he was able to build the First Order. How he was able to corrupt Ben under Luke's nose. Where he came from when there were no Dark Side Force users anymore. How he became so horrifically scarred. Is he a Sith or just force sensitive?
These are questions that I had which were never resolved. Stuff like how he got hurt don't need to be answered immediately I mean Palpatine didn't.
The mystery behind the whole 'who the hell is this guy' stuff around Snoke, because unlike previous Sith lords we don't know where he came from or what he is, questions so far left hanging by the movies and alluded to in the canon novels. We know that Palpatine may have sensed Snoke's rise and that's it so far.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 22:38:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's from one of the canon novels, Aftermath: Empire's End, in it is a passage detailing Palpatine's search of the unknown regions for a dark side signal that calls to him. Quotation is as follows ' the emperor was convinced that something waited for him out there- some origin of the force, some dark presence formed of malevolent substance. He said that he could feel the waves of it radiating out now that the way was clear. The emperor called it a signal - conveniently one that only he could hear. Even his greatest enforcer, Vader, seemed oblivious to it, and Vader also claimed mastery over the dark force, did he not?'
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:18:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'd taken it to mean that those "important" questions weren't that important. One of the main themes was of letting go of the past and moving on. The questions about Rey's parents and Snoke were treated as an irrelevancy because they ultimately are. What matters is what they made the next generation into and where that new generation will go in the aftermath.
I was thinking that this might also explain why this movie was basically a mash-up and remix of both ESB and ROTJ. Disney now have no more original films to use as story templates, so Episode IX is where they could be free take things in an entirely new direction.
That, or it'll open with a fucking trade embargo. We'll see.
i liked how it was different to the emperor, vader asked padme and luke to help overthrow the emperor but kylo managed himself with incredible deception. Really did restore some of his power. Snoke was berating and humiliating him that much it was either gonna spur him onto a murderous rampage against the resistance or snoke himself
people keep overthinking this trilogy and trying to find underlying themes or huge mysteries that might happen or they mightve missed. the truth is that there arent any, and what you see is what you get. the new trilogy is just that disappointing.
alfiejs ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:44:16 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I shall put you on a pedalstool
Cheekygui ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 23:18:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
From what ive heard from hardcore star wars fans isnt snoke meant to be capable of cheating death? Im not super into anything outside of the movies so im not certain.
Was he manipulating them or just puffing himself up? If the link between Kylo and Rey remained after his death, he could have been lying about being the cause.
Snoke in this movie reminded me of Kylo in the last, desperate for others to see him as an all powerful sith lord, didn't have the ability to back it up.
I mean, he claims to have manipulated them and be the reason they can connect..... yet after he dies, they still manage to talk to each other. Kylo is definitely lying.
Basically they did it in a way that they can still choose to so something with the Reys parents story, or they can choose to leave it where it is which is already a very good turnout that fit very well for that heart to heart scene with Rey and Kylo
I guess there is still a chance, but I have narrative issues with it:
if it turned out to be true, it would have no effect on the narrative that has been set with the release of The Last Jedi and even contradict the theme, not to mention Empire.
it would be really out of character for Obi-Wan to break the code. I know they flirted with the idea in the Clone Wars show but he chose an honorable path.
yea and her and rey hugging in TFA were actually not meant to be that way didn't JJ said it was suppose to be chewie instead?
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 21:30:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nah he admitted afterwards that he fucked up and should have made her hug Chewie instead of Rey. Something he only noticed was lacking after fans pointed it out sadly
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:17:23 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I guess I read it wrong. I was referring to something they fixed. After TFA everyone was asking what Luke was eating on the island, in TLJ it showed the fish he caught, plus the big one you see him kill and carry.
Haha that's what I thought as well. Like the writers read all the theories and were like "lol nope, scrap anything we had planned"
Or one theory ended up being the one they originally planned and they were like "nah screw that, now y'all get nothing!"
Linubidix ยท 57 points ยท Posted at 14:18:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Vince McMahon method. Cut off your nose to spite your face.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:45:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is actually being well received. Which it wouldn't be under a Vince McMahon method.
Well. And that was the problem as well because story didnt go its own way but it was based on fans and so it was nothing, really. Story wanted to go one way and writers, cause of fans, pushed it the other way.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:36:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But were any of those fan theories actually good? Or would it have been narratively pointless and confusing adding in some random BS about snoke being Darth plagius (a name casual fans don't even know) or some shit about Rey being a Kenobi.
99.9% of the fan theories made might be fine lore wise but wouldn't work in an actual movie. Things like fan theories for the winds of winter are far easier to get accurate as George foreshadows so much and writes in such a broad heavy style. Predicting minor, pointless, lore-friendly backstory (not even plot points) by a writer we've never seen write a SW movie before? Good luck
Me too, there's an entire frickin galaxy, not every hero needs to be a Solo/Skywalker. The fanboys are pissed but I think it's a good direction.
f1mxli ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 17:57:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think the thing there was that ep.7 made a huge deal about keeping Rey's heritage a secret. We'll get over it some day.
Alicrilly ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 21:19:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well it's not so much from the movie but the classic JJ everything's a bigger mystery Abrams
Ianchez ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:48:05 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He like to write that way to keep open options in the future cause you never know what you might need. I kinda get it, and kinda like it. I hate movies when everything fits so perfectly, it makes them look fake.
I don't feel Episode 7 made much of a deal about it at all. There's just a flashback of her being abandoned, granted, but other than that, the hype came from the fans. If it weren't a Star Wars film, everyone would have just considered her parents were inconsequential, which funnily enough turns out was the case... Admittedly though, the speculation was fueled by how the creators would try to avoid this question.
There's no doubt, however, that ep. 8 made a big deal about this mystery before the reveal. I was almost scared they wouldn't go through with it in this episode!
Sempere ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 19:05:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Except that's not true - they went out of their way to stress the mystery of Rey. If they gave her an actual last name, it would have been more of a cushion.
At the same time, Kylo Ren was trying to manipulate her into joining him. Devaluing her and saying she's no one to anyone but him...that's classic manipulation right there. We might be expected to take her being no one at face value, and it might be true within the context of The Last Jedi - but with JJ Abrams back for the finale, I'm willing to bet that'll be retcon'd
I've been wondering this with rey and snoke as well. Now that JJ is helming episode 9 as well do you think he may try to finish what he's started (excuse the reference) regarding these character's mysteries?
For the record I'm on board with Rey being a nobody
Part of her story and drive is not knowing who her parents are and hoping they would come back for it. Thats the reason, not because her parents ended up being someone.
Sempere ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:50:15 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nah, she was just an incredibly inconsistently written character in the first film. They absolutely wanted the mystery of who she was to be central, they even spend 30-40 minutes of the film basically calling attention to the mystery of it. Everyone asking the same question - it is a manipulation of audience expectation. Johnson threw it out the window, but JJ could very well retcon it in the next film.
If they wanted to bash fan theories they should at least come up with a backstory in place of those theories. Every good character has a good backstory. If Rey is the modern Disney princess for fuck's sake give her a backstory. It's OK if she doesn't have an heritage but give me some fucking backstory.
Alicrilly ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 21:21:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
We have her backstory , she grew up as a salvager on jakku.
Im not annoyed that shes not family of existing characters. Im annoyed that it was presented as an important mystery. I really wish she was no one right from the beginning.
i thought she was a nobody once i saw the movie but i thought she would be connected in some way to at least one of the main characters. its pretty dumb how she has anakins saber calling to her, visions of the skywalker family and their history, and each of the ot characters seem to either recognize her in some way or we are lead to believe that there is some mystery surrounding her that connects her to the main plot. but there just, isnt. she is just there because thats what the writers decided and it feels forced, she doesnt have any real connection the these characters other than what is presented in the movies and it makes it feel cheap. im sure it wouldnt have been hard or even have changed much to just have a throwaway line or small scene between her and luke or kylo that says something like "you were a young student at lukes temple but after what kylo did you were hidden away so he couldnt find you and hurt you" or something like that. it would have given rey and luke past history that could serve as a way to bond them and let audiences understand why she is so important. but they just chose not to and say "youre just some random who is really important and super strong for no reason". you cant expect people to be happy about that when its been previously shown that people are always connected in some way and getting abilities like the ones she has take considerable training and skills (unless youre the literal jesus of your universe and even then you can be undone by your own hubris and emotions).
i thought she was a nobody once i saw the movie but i thought she would be connected in some way to at least one of the main characters. its pretty dumb how she has anakins saber calling to her, visions of the skywalker family and their history, and each of the ot characters seem to either recognize her in some way or we are lead to believe that there is some mystery surrounding her that connects her to the main plot. but there just, isnt. she is just there because thats what the writers decided and it feels forced, she doesnt have any real connection the these characters other than what is presented in the movies and it makes it feel cheap. im sure it wouldnt have been hard or even have changed much to just have a throwaway line or small scene between her and luke or kylo that says something like "you were a young student at lukes temple but after what kylo did you were hidden away so he couldnt find you and hurt you" or something like that. it would have given rey and luke past history that could serve as a way to bond them and let audiences understand why she is so important. but they just chose not to and say "youre just some random who is really important and super strong for no reason". you cant expect people to be happy about that when its been previously shown that people are always connected in some way and getting abilities like the ones she has take considerable training and skills (unless youre the literal jesus of your universe and even then you can be undone by your own hubris and emotions).
I am a hardcore fan and I LOVED that they burned all the fanfiction writers. I am a movie fan and I want something a bunch of nerds on the internet couldn't come up with. A story. Not a backstory with a bunch of great material for wookiepedia editors.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:48:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not contributing anything by replying to this, but I'm also a big Star wars fan and I fucking love this comment, so accurate.
This doesn't make a lot of sense. You can explain a character in the film and give a background and motivation just fine. Movies have managed to do it forever. You can do that and still ignore any fan fic garbage. Randomly cutting out characters half way through the trilogy without any real understanding of who they were (while clearly hinting they mattered) isn't making a 'story'.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:27:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A bunch of nerds on the internet could have come up with something way better than that steaming sack of shit
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:47:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Excellent point.
JDFreeman ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:30:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah this. The thing I loved about Star Wars as a kid was that it was clearly awesome for kids and adults without ever being patronizing. That very last scene in the film with the kid holding up a broom like a lightsabre was the most patronizing thing i've ever seen in Star Wars film. Worse than midicloreans, spaceleia, Jaja, Ewoks Caravan of courage...it was patronizing cheese toss.
I don't know how you got this from my post, and I disagree completely with what you said.
JDFreeman ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 15:12:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
haha oh well. I was agreeing with you that it was good they burned the fan fic and that i want a story, not a backstory. I guess where we split is that I dont think Last Jedi gave us that. It gave us a rehash of Empire Strikes back with a bizare middle half set on a Casino city that belongs in Harry Potter...
Asiriya ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 18:39:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There was barely a story in it. Fuck me.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 20:03:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I haven't even seen the movie yet, but I knew this would happen. Attention ladies and gents: This is what happens when you let Pickle Nose (JJ Abrams) anywhere near your franchise. Look at what he did with Star Trek. Could you expect anything less? He's not a visionary. He's a hack who takes everything we love about our past and rehashes it into an abomination on the vague logic of 'Well the franchise is broken. So we have to reboot it to get the original feel back.' It's why Leai's force sensitivity was never brought up, yet it was such a crucial angle in Return of the Jedi. It was why instead of involving the Republic, which by the original movies, was turned into a Rebellion, we got the Resistance. It's like 'Hey dudes. Wasn't the Republic re-established by now? And if it wasn't, what has taken it's place? What happened to the old Empire? Did it die off? Did the First Order take it's place?'
Asiriya ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:40:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You're not getting any answers :)
It was salvageable though.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:50:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I wouldn't have a problem with Rey coming from a lineage that isn't Skywalker in someway. But they went out of their way to show a flashback of her being abandoned. Why put that in their if there is no defining lineage to the force? Why wouldn't Rey just mention to say Finn as an example, that she doesn't remember her parents and leave it as that?
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:52:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because being abandoned had a huge impact on how she feels and what has driven her throughout the past two films. I don't even like TFA that much and I thought TLJ was far too long (should have cut Finn entirely, I don't care that I liked him in the first film, he had nothing to do) but Rey's parents don't need to be special space wizards to be an important motivation for her character (she doesn't want to abandon Ben, "he's not alone").
aulum ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:24:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Aren't the books and comics for nerds? It's how it's Always been right? Time to read some Legends!
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:45:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I love how these people have seen star wars movies before, yet they still believe that a character will get "revealed" (in star trek into darkness style) as Darth plagius: someone general audiences don't know exists and would be so goddamn convoluted to set up (let alone people thinking Rey was a Kenobi or a palpatine, what does that even add to the story?).
Darth plagius also works better narratively if he doesn't exist, it's way better if palpatine made up a sith legend about the dark side of the force being able to do exactly what anakin is looking for at this exact moment (rather than someone who did the same thing actually being his master). Too many star wars fans don't understand what makes star wars actually work: simple, mainstream movies that establish a universe in which talented writers can expand on the lore in a less mainstream medium (Chris avellone is still my favourite star wars writer)
Yeah already read it. One of my favourite eu books.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:46:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you thought that any Star Wars film is made for nerds you need to do some community work to realign your brain with reality.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:56:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Have you seen Revenge of the Sith?
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:06:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A movie with a high budget released in the summer with the aim of appealing to a four quadrant audience meant to recoup that budget and hopefully make a profit? Not for nerds.
This sub will wank the movie for a few months, particularly now that studio shills are out in full force. Then, three months from now, it will pretend that it always saw the obvious flaws in this movie, and it never thought it was great.
Yeah good on you Disney for fooling your fanbase. "You bought our comics and novels that just keep teasing things to do with the new characters? Well fuck you. You gotta keep buying our shit if you wanna know more."
Are you really praising a multi billionaire company for slapping their costumers in the face?
I fucking loved it! I'm a huge star wars fan, but i didn't really care for the snoke theories, so to see the writers and the story group thinking the same, so great.
leo-g ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 12:02:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
JJ > So I was thinking... you could make Rey parents be...
Rian > Say no more fam.
JJ (after watching the first cut) > can you not?
I liked how they handled it, they corrected a couple of the problems of Force Awakens. As a CGI villain Snoke was not convincing and I am glad he went in this movie. Rey being a rehash of Luke Skywalker was also fixed and she is just another of an emerging generation of Jedi. They also fixed Yoda and he was no longer a CGI action hero of the prequels but was back to being a playful muppet.
bedbugsex ยท 266 points ยท Posted at 12:27:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Where the fuck did he come from and why was he basically a slightly uglier Sidious? Zero story payoff
[deleted] ยท 229 points ยท Posted at 12:59:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Same place Darth Maul, Boba Fett, Grevious, Duku and the Emperor in the original series came from. Starwars movies have always introduced bad guys without backstories.
Given the EU creates elaborate backstories for every redshirt number #5 in the movies I'm sure we'll hear eventually.
bedbugsex ยท 117 points ยท Posted at 13:27:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
None of the first 4 were this powerful (in fact was boba ever a threat). You're right about the Emperor, but there's a difference in being the first main big bad- he dies and then someone exactly like him takes his place?
The most logical explanation is he survived the fall the his head split open. I would have been ... okay with that I guess if it was done well.
jaegeruk ยท 79 points ยท Posted at 15:26:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Edit: Seems I've replied to the wrong comment, but I 'll leave this be anyways.
Maul, Boba, Grevious and Dooku weren't portrayed to be the main villain though.
Snoke has been afforded ample amounts of screen time compared to the Emperor which seems to be the issue. For someone so apparently so important and powerful like Snoke who's seemingly picked up the pieces of the Empire to create the First Order, turn and mould Kylo and then get killed off in such a way without knowing anything about such an influential character doesn't sit right with many.
With the Emperor he was a mystery throughout 4, 5 and 6 with not much known about him. Then vastly expanded upon his character in the prequels, which Disney aren't able to do any longer with Snoke, bar spin off films and books which would feel somewhat underwhelming for such an integral character. We want to know what happened in the 30 years between the original trilogy and the new trilogy.
They've added things into the universe, pretty much saying "right here you go these are the Knights of Ren and Supreme leader Snoke in VII" then just leave it at that with no explanation and to completely gloss over them.
bedbugsex ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 15:31:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. If they wanted to reboot it so badly just do an honest to goodness reboot or "spiritual successor". How on earth did the first order even get so powerful after a resounding defeat? The republic need to look at that was the root of the problem otherwise another victory means exactly nothing.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:36:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What resounding defeat? They lost a weapon, but before that managed to kill off the entirety of the New Republic. It was less than months after that that TLJ started, so instead of a forceful stalemate, it was now all out war.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:23:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:34:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They lost the emperor and Jakku THIRTY YEARS AGO.
mdevoid ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:27:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I read the original comment as in terms of how did the first order come back from the ashes of the empire. Not from the defeat of the starbase.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:29:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And in that case, they had thirty years to do so. Even the old EU made a point that just because the Emperor died, doesn't mean that the Empire died with him.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:05:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And gave zero explanation why this supposed new Republic never had the foresight or common sense to detect this First Order.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:13:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I see you didn't watch TFA at all then, did you? Because they make it abundantly clear that the new Republic is well aware of the First Order, and in the midst of a cold war with them.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:23:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I did. Apparently they had no way to detect the Starkiller base, and zero Bothan spies to infiltrate it as well. How convenient.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:31:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Clearly you didn't, cause then you would have noticed how the film states that the Republic, despite dissenters, doesn't view the First Order as a problem in the scope that Leia saw them.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:03:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And from what I've heard, the Republic still isn't doing jack shit about this First Order in this movie as well. Wonder how JJ is going to write himself out this mess during the next movie.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:48:56 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You mean the republic that was wiped out in TFA? How dense are you?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:12:02 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Do you realize how many planets are in with both new and old Republic? Corusant lived. Many other planets lived. You need to develop your overall scope.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:26:47 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not here, this is straight from what the films establish - the new republic is gone. It's in the film, it's canon, and you're just gonna have to live with it.
Jay-Em ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:52:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It didn't feel like all out war though. The crawl states 'The First Order reigns', as though they've subdued the galaxy somehow.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:45:26 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They blew up the home world of the republic (so their leaders all died) and the republic fleet which guarded it in TFA.
And the did the same thing with Rey. Here is a powerful girl who is apparently completely random, give her force powers and people will accept her as a hero.
RavenK92 ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 21:48:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Here is a powerful girl who is apparently completely random
Wasn't that Luke's entire point? The Jedi do not own the Force, neither do the Skywalkers. It exists in and between all things. Anyone and everyone can wield it if they would but learn. And as Kylo Ren was born with such a raw power and connection to the Force, it gave her her potential because the Force always seeks balance
Itโs not important to this story, thatโs the point. He will have a fleshed our backstory in books and other media but in this movie they chose to not focus on that. I can understand if thatโs disappointing for you but that doesnโt mean anything negative about the film. I could care less about snokes back story being in a movie.
bedbugsex ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:02:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It creates plot holes though. Where was he when Palpatine was ruling? How did he gain control of the empire and why was he ignored the whole time? Luke seemed aware of him as far back as when he was training Kylo.
-Badger2- ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 15:52:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's not what a plot hole is. Those are just questions that haven't been answered yet.
Aren't plot holes unanswered questions that aren't answered or can't be answered? Until they're answered they also seem like glaring contradictions.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 22:04:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's only a plot hole where something doesn't make sense, snoke could be anything, he could be sidious' former master, he could be a reincarnated ancient sith, he could have hid in the outer rim till sidious' defeat and then took over his empire through showing his sheer power to whatever remained. Snoke can be explained away by anything, it isn't a plot hole, we just didn't need to know his backstory for this movie (it wouldn't have felt organic if they'd told it to us, would have just been pointless exposition).
Honestly I didn't even like TFA and TLJ was fine, but both of them have significantly bigger problems than "not showing snoke's backstory" or "Rey not being a fucking Kenobi" (for instance what the hell was Finn even doing in this movie? Character should have been cut as he had nothing to do, and he was one of my highpoints in TFA).
No it doesnโt. Like I said his story will be fully explained just not in a film probably. Thereโs extensive information on pretty much every
Star Wars character ever created. Itโs just most likely gonna be in a book. Or JJ will explain it in the next one. But we will find out everything about Snoke at some point.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:35:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lol they fucked all the eu shit built after TFA off in this movie, and people were saying "hurr wait until the next movie for your explanations" after TFA. If you have to wait 4 years to get answers to any of the big questions the first movie teased you with, then that's shit writing, and a honeydicking fest for the viewers. Disney don't care about the comics or books, they care about making a Disney movie that'll reach a bigger demographic than the nerds that are into that shit. It's not a black or white issue either, palpating wasn't killed in the second movie, with almost zero explanation for his motives other than lol imma karrupt ya. Plus the multiple interviews where they teased reys heritage.
Look I get what youโre saying but I disagree with all of it. Iโm a super fanboy and I think the last Jedi is a great movie, Disney has been doing a great job so far and completely trust their vision. Iโm sorry if you donโt.
mchugho ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:28:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Keep telling yourself that this is a good Star Wars film if it makes you feel better. Can't see how huge fans would be anything but disappointed.
You seem very easy to please. Good for you I guess (and Disney). That's fine if you enjoy it, but your arguments don't really dispute any of our points.
See I was trying to be respectful but I guess you wonโt. Like it or not Star Wars is Disneyโs and this is their direction. I love it you hate it either way itโs both opinions about the state of Star Wars that arenโt fact. If you want to believe somehow I have less brain cells cause I like it, thatโs on you. Enjoy being an angry fanboy up on that hill who thinks he knows better, cause itโs lonely up their.
Calm down. I really don't care about the franchise as a whole. I just think this is a objectively pretty bad movie and I guess a bit miffed I wasted money on it.
Itโs not important to this story, thatโs the point. He will have a fleshed our backstory in books and other media but in this movie they chose to not focus on that. I can understand if thatโs disappointing for you but that doesnโt mean anything negative about the film. I could care less about snokes back story being in a movie.
Most people don't want to go and have to read a book on top of the 7 hour trilogy to understand a fairly important character. If you need a book to explain someone like Snoke then just don't put him in the movie.
Thatโs ridiculous, plenty of movies have characters that are just their to serve the plot and movie it forward and donโt have any backstories. Hell most movies do this! Just cause you want backstory for Snoke in this film does not make it necessary.
Jesus if a book comes out then his whole backstory will be a quick read on a wiki, people who are really interested in Snoke will definitely do research and find out everything about him. It took me a few minutes to find out everything about phasma after her book has come out by simply googling it. If youโre a fan of Snoke I can understand that this may be disappointing but itโs the same as if I wished fin was a Jedi. Just because I wished and it didnโt happen my way doesnโt mean that they fucked up and are poor story tellers. No one ever said Snoke was anything that he wasnโt so even though hopes got high for some they didnโt lie or mislead.
Thatโs ridiculous, plenty of movies have characters that are just their to serve the plot and movie it forward and donโt have any backstories. Hell most movies do this!
Give me a comparable character. The emperor had more known about him in ANH and then, of course, had a whole prequel trilogy outlining his rise (which I know was not present at the time).
I don't want to hear about the guy who helps Indy get a horse. I don't need his back story because his role was to get Indy the horse.
Snoke's role was.... nothing. People wanted his role to be defined. Why not simply have Hux in that role?
Jesus if a book comes out then his whole backstory will be a quick read on a wiki, people who are really interested in Snoke will definitely do research and find out everything about him.
If you can't do this in the film, don't put it in the film. I have no desire to pour through internet garbage about Phasma or Snoke. I don't want to read a comic or YA novel about star wars for their backstory. They are two characters that didn't amount to anything and one of them was, ostensibly, a pretty important character.
If it is written to be comedically funny, I can understand that. But I don't see anything supporting that reading of the film.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:30:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Give me a comparable character. The emperor had more known about him in ANH and then, of course, had a whole prequel trilogy outlining his rise (which I know was not present at the time).
General Grievous. Who was a terrible character admiteddly.
But I agree with /u/SoulCruizer, this isn't Snoke's story. We don't need to know his backstory. I'd like to know it, and I'm sure it will be covered in a gazillion books and toys and video games and cereal boxes, but it's ultimately secondary to the main story of Kylo/Rey.
Thank you! I just got home from the theater and I have to say I fucking loved it, Every decision made! Iโm actually really surprised by the amount of hate this is getting. It was so good! And the way Snoke went out was perfect, really upped the stakes for Kylo. Bravo!
Look I donโt see how I need to explain anymore cause I explained it perfectly before. Snokes place was to push the movie in a direction, if Wasnโt Snoke it would be someone else and weโd be in the same situation, if it was Hux then heโd be a different character and WEโD BE IN THE SAME SITUATION... Snokes history is fucking irrelevant to the story thatโs being told, you donโt like it, Disney doesnโt care cause itโs not catering to what you want, you donโt wanna google โwho is Snokeโ in a year or two to know, thatโs on you.
You even mention the emperor who had no story at all in ANH. Other then he wants to take over the universe, that was it for 3 movies! And as for the prequels those came after so who knows we could get โSnoke A Star Wars storyโ in a couple years.
if it was Hux then heโd be a different character and WEโD BE IN THE SAME SITUATION
And it would be just as poorly written but then I'm not wondering why there are two characters whose entire purpose was doing essentially the same thing that are largely nebulously undefined.
Snokes history is fucking irrelevant to the story thatโs being told, you donโt like it, Disney doesnโt care cause itโs not catering to what you want, you donโt wanna google โwho is Snokeโ in a year or two to know, thatโs on you.
I don't want to read internet garbage from books written for young adults... you are right, that is on me. I do expect competent film making and the ability of a franchise to define it's own characters. If you want to read everything online then why even see the movies? Just read the synopsis and you will finish it faster than it takes to watch.
You even mention the emperor who had no story at all in ANH.
And yet he had more there than Snoke does here.
then he wants to take over the universe, that was it for 3 movies!
I'm sort of thinking you didn't see the movies or don't remember them. He already had the galaxy under his control. His was very much about turning Skywalker (and crushing the rebellion but that's an after thought in his mind). Then you learn that he wants him as his new apprentice and sets up a test where either Vader proves himself and stays his apprentice or Luke wins and becomes his apprentice.
Snokes history is fucking irrelevant to the story thatโs being told, you donโt like it, Disney doesnโt care
I don't recall ever saying they did care? I think they care about making money and they are doing just fine at that. The prequels were pretty poorly written and made boat loads of cash.
Disney or a director making a choice doesn't mean that it's a 'good' choice. Unless you simply are of the belief (and it sounds like you are) that by default any choice they make is the right one. There are, shockingly, multiple ways to tell the same story. You can cut corners everywhere. You can reach the same ending but have people be impressed and find the journey fulfilling or it can be hacked together and not work well and reach the same end.
sigh... Iโm not even going to read this, youโre clearly missing something, snokes place in this trilogy is perfectly fine. May not be what you hoped for but there was nothing poorly written or executed about this situation. Snoke was more then fleshed out enough for his role in the story they are telling. It was a choice they wanted and Iโm 100% with. Itโs unfortunate that whatever it is is causing you to not see that.
snokes place in this trilogy is perfectly fine. May not be what you hoped for but there was nothing poorly written or executed about this situation
It was very poorly written.
It's almost like we can have two opinions but your is solely based on the idea that because Disney took one route it is the correct one by default. You have offered nothing but the reasoning of 'Disney chose it so it must be right'.
That's pretty sad that you can't think for yourself.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:58:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Enjoy being a pouty little bitch who didnโt get his way. Lifeโs gonna be real fun for you.
I don't get it, you keep saying this. Didn't get my way? I wasn't in a writing room with anyone putting forth a point.
I'm not calling you a pouty little bitch or anything so I can't understand why you are saying that here. I am explaining why it was poorly written and all you are doing is falling into the thinking that Disney is always right and they decided this was the correct way to tell a story so you will hide behind it.
Even here itโs the first thing you say โItโs was very poorly writtenโ you say this like I should care,
Did you write the script or something? You seem to be taking it so personally that people can see it's poorly written. I'm not insulting YOUR work (unless of course you wrote it) so why should you take it personally and 'care'?
Also fuck off, the moment you start saying shit like โcanโt think for yourselfโ and start slinging insults confirms youโre enable to have a intelligent conversation
Again you are getting way personal on this. You didn't write this thing so why are you getting so worked up? You haven't produced much at all defending why you DON'T think it was poorly written except to say Disney didn't think he played a role.
I don't think he had the Emperor's power, I got the impression he was like... someone sensitive to the force and adapt but not at the same power level, and without the same training.
He's someone with limited power, high intelligence, the wealth to buy an army, and extreme arrogance. I don't understand the "he must be the most super amazing villain of all time because I just assumed that to be true without any evidence!" fanboy outrage on this one.
He must be someone the audience can understand. As is he's kind of a weird character built up to be something then hand waived away as if it was never important to the story in the first place.
He's someone with limited power, high intelligence, the wealth to buy an army, and extreme arrogance
Maybe? I mean I got none of that from watching the movies. Maybe that he was arrogant?
Lets see. He displays some power, though not much, is clad in fancy and extravagant clothing and seems to flaunt his high status decadence, is running the burgeoning first order, and arrogance is clearly his defining character trait... Seems like all of what i said can be found in the movie. It doesn't have to be explicitly stated with tedious exposition monologues.
Seems like all of what i said can be found in the movie.
No, it couldn't. That's you placing your hopes/fan fic/explanations on it and not having anything directly contradicting it.
He displays some power, though not much
I've seen as many people say he displays a shit ton of power. Not that I agree with either but I think that's definitely you just placing your ideas on the film and having it sort of kind of maybe not contradict it.
is running the burgeoning first order
Maybe? I guess by title you can think that? Who knows? C
is clad in fancy and extravagant clothing and seems to flaunt his high status decadence
I don't think that has ever correlated to wealth in the star wars universe. The emperor looked like a homeless guy but had all the resources in the galaxy.
Plus, people have said that the empires supporters had all the money to fund the NO.
Again, its you making up answers and the film not contradicting it.
I can make up nearly the opposite answers and have the film not contradict it as well.
yup, he's also outsmarted rather than beat face on!
Drama79 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:04:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did it matter to the story? Where did Ben Kenobi come from? One of the things I loved about this film was that it played with cine-literate expectations. Oh, JJ set up some mystery boxes? Cool - they're not the point, buh-bye Snoke. Movies aren't the place for complex lore.
bedbugsex ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 15:06:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think it does matter when it's a sequel. Where was he when Palpatine was ruling? Surely he'd be a threat (or a potential disciple I guess?) How did he gain control of the empire and why was he ignored the whole time? Luke seemed aware of him as far back as when he was training Kylo.
Drama79 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 15:17:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Given that there's a huge gap between XI and XII, that's a whole bunch of movies they can make exploring that area.
iigloo ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:32:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Which is why it is really nice that Kylo Ren is now the main antagonist, Adam Drivers portrayal of him is great and I am looking forward to more interactions between Kylo Ren and Rey.
Con0rr ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:39:20 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not having a backstory in the Original Trilogy (when there was no story besides the films), as well as not having a backstory in the prequels (there is a ton of time before Episode 1 unaccounted for) is fine because those are easily explained. For this trilogy, we are coming into a universe where supposedly, the evil was already defeated. Yet now we're supposed to just blindly assume that this guy could take control of the entire First Order?
T0yN0k ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:45:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Boba Fett was never a bad guy. He was a bounty hunter.
maul and greivous were just made to sell toys and were pretty much just in one movie each to have a cool lightsaber. the others all had backstory and purpose that had been established in the movie, boba fett was a dangerous bounty hunter that even the terrifying darth vader accepted back talk from and captured the heroes. count dooku was a jedi turned sith to try and destroy them from the inside as well as gain immense political power. darth sidious was the dictator of the galaxy who destroyed democracy and ruled through military might. snoke is set up to be the emperor 2.0 and it just goes nowhere. we get no explanation of who he is or why he is doing what he is doing. its the same problems throughout the disney era of star wars which is style over substance, there is no orginality, no real character development besides one or two at best and just repackaging the same stuff that has already been popular for decades but not doing it have as good.
jaegeruk ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:40:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Maul, Boba, Grevious and Dooku weren't portrayed to be the main villain though.
Snoke has been afforded ample amounts of screen time compared to the Emperor which seems to be the issue. For someone so apparently so important and powerful like Snoke who's seemingly picked up the pieces of the Empire to create the First Order, turn and mould Kylo and then get killed off in such a way without knowing anything about such an influential character doesn't sit right with many.
With the Emperor he was a mystery throughout 4, 5 and 6 with not much known about him. Then vastly expanded upon his character in the prequels, which Disney aren't able to do any longer with Snoke, bar spin off films and books which would feel somewhat underwhelming for such an integral character. We want to know what happened in the 30 years between the original trilogy and the new trilogy.
They've added things into the universe, pretty much saying "right here you go these are the Knights of Ren and Supreme leader Snoke in VII" then just leave it at that with no explanation and to completely gloss over them.
Jay-Em ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:47:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah this is the problem. The Emperor in the Original Trilogy was a mystery, but only because we knew very little about the rest of the Star Wars universe. Whereas Snoke seems contrary to what we already know about the galaxy; where has this new, powerful dark side user emerged from? It actually requires an explanation for the audience, because this isn't what you expect coming off the back of ROTJ.
lisward ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:31:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thatโs why he was killed off I think. Even if he had a backstory thereโs only so much you can do with the Sith vs Jedi story that hasnโt been done in the comics that hasnโt been rehashed over and over. Something something bad guy turns good again. But with the way this is going it isnโt a Sith vs Jedi thing anymore, with both Snoke and Luke dead I think the focus is going to be more on the war, and the expansion of the Star Wars universe, which is what id love to see.
Something something bad guy turns good again. But with the way this is going it isnโt a Sith vs Jedi thing anymore, with both Snoke and Luke dead I think the focus is going to be more on the war, and the expansion of the Star Wars universe, which is what id love to see.
It's going to be Good vs Bad with Rey trying to turn Kylo. It will be the same thing just without the terms of sith and jedi used.
It won't focus on the war because people largely don't care about watching that. They want to see the powerful people interact.
Darth maul didnโt need an explanation because he was there at the beginning of the action, before any of the characters in the show knew who he or his boss was, and his character didnโt even talk, he just did badass sith stuff.
I think it was mostly that nothing in the story hinted he was any more than a mid grade sith who wanted to kill jedi. If you don't hint that there is more then the audience is usually cool with it.
f1mxli ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:03:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hey, I didn't say it was a good backstory :P
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:44:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
the Emperor
The Emperor was teased in dialogue in ANH, seen for the first time via hologram in ESB, then finally shown fully-realised as a nigh unbeatable villain in ROTJ that actually lived up to the expectation. Then the prequels basically followed his rise to power.
How can you compare that with Snoke with a straight face?
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:35:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did it need anything? He was a force user, as powerful as Luke by all accounts, and he managed to thrive while Luke cut himself from the Force. But his downfall was faster, because unlike Sidious, he didn't know how to control his pet Vader. It was a stunning reversal of expectations.
[deleted] ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 15:01:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
He was important for the character development of Kylo Ren , who is the real antagonist. That being said I would've liked to see more of Snoke's back story
What annoys me is that they easily could have put in a line about Snoke. "Snoke warped Ben's mind, took him to the darkside."
"Who is Snoke and why is he so powerful?"
"Snoke was a confidant of the Emperor. A Sith who hid in the shadows. Wealth was his power, he financed the Empires most sinister projects and went on to create the First Order."
Something like that would take no time and instantly fill in a lot of blanks while really saying nothing much. Lucas was great at adding lines and info that hinted at backstories. These new films don't know how to do that.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 03:22:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It might be mentioned in the next movie, trilogy ain't over yet
Oh yeah that character development, where Kylo was a troubled and conflicted character who ended the film being pure simple evil with no real explanation.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:44:30 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He didn't ended up being pure evil. He was angry and Rei for disappointing him and ofc at Luke since you know, he kinda fucked him up
He was acting like one of his rage moments, the way he leaded the army felt the zame as him getting a tantrum in FA
Yes and no. It's very true that he is kinda the same, so here's where the Yes comes from. But, in itself no growth is a character development. Some people just aren't capable of developing and for me personally this tells a lot about Kylo that at the end of the FA wasn't clear.
aulum ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:26:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I dont see the problem. He's a plot point a Mcguffin, nothing else.
because Abrams wanted an Emperor Palpatine type character and as usually with his mystery box bullshit, he'd fill in the blanks later or hand it to someone else.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:41:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think the biggest question is how did we only find out about him in TFA when he is clearly able to bankroll 'a diminished Empire' which blatantly has more resources than the Palpatine ever did.
Wait she is still a rehash of Luke, in the end she is the legend as Luke is for the OG crew, that was the whole point.
She is the hope.
ender23 ยท 84 points ยท Posted at 12:25:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I know people hate that their theories didnโt work out and that thereโs nothing. But come on. If Rey was lineage, then being a Jedi is inherited and this movie worked hard to say itโs not. Not every orphan gets to find out their parents are heros or important. There wasnโt โno payoffโ, the expectations were a little too high. You can say Kk Abrams implies something in tfa, but this was always a possibility.
It's not even whether her parents are Jedi. She's just naturally good at everything and there's nothing mysterious in her past (rudimentary training etc) to explain it
elbenji ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:43:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So was luke?
cohrt ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:41:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
luke wasn't jedi mind tricking people in the first movie.
Anakin was a pod racer, but hadn't won a race. Then R2 did most of the work at the end of TPM.
How was Luke a Gary Stu?
elbenji ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:56:03 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's more the whole hero's journey as a concept creates a kind of young naive figure who goes all shonen
sjwking ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:19:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There has to be balance
moimana ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:56:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think it does make sense. This movie takes the earlier theme of balance in the force further. Because there was darkness. There must be light. Instead of a 3d Skywalker. Rey is Just a random hero of the light. Imo this explains her Powers Just as well. And gives far more depth to the whole star wars universe
ender23 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:32:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
it's not like the skywalkers inherited their force too. she's awesome cuz the force is strong in her.
moimana ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:56:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think it does make sense. This movie takes the earlier theme of balance in the force further. Because there was darkness. There must be light. Instead of a 3d Skywalker. Rey is Just a random hero of the light. Imo this explains her Powers Just as well. And gives far more depth to the whole star wars universe
i knew rey was nobody but i thought she would have some history to explain her connection to the main story, or her apparent prodigal force abilities. she couldve a young student who showed great promise at lukes school but then it got destroyed and luke tried to hide her for her own saftey or something. instead we got nothing and are just supposed to believe that some random person is bound by destiny to the skywalker story because its the will of the force? thats bad storytelling and just lazy, the force has been reduced to a plot device to make bad ideas barely believable and its sad to see the franchise treated this way.
ender23 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:55:21 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
no it's not. just because Star wars universe doesn't buy in to your thinking that people have to come from somewhere special to be heros, doesn't mean it can't be true. it's like saying, you can't be president of the US, unless you come from a rich family. i'm sure rich people will look at history and say "oh yeah that's true". but it's technically not true and anyone within the birth parameters can become president.
im not saying that at all, in fact thats pretty much one of the main themes of star wars and part of what i love about it. what im upset by is the fact that the nobody also has these amazing skills with no explaination of how they got them. training with a staff in the desert in no way makes you better at wielding a lazer sword, she is never shown to have any idea how to fly but is apparently amazing at it, and has no idea what the force is but is somehow able to use it with the skill of a jedi master. it would be like someone how has never played a guitar just picking it up and being able to play sweet child of mine or something and then, without ever have driven a car, steal one and outrun the cops. there is no explanation, not even a throwaway line like "i used to fly ships for unkar plutt" or something that would at least show us why she can fly a ship that requires two people to fly it. and why not just have her able to use the force ever since she was young and just not know what it was or maybe thought she was just special? these are plot holes that shouldve been covered early on in the writing of the story and the fact that theyre there means either the people who were writing it didnt give a fuck or are just incompetent, and honestly its probably both.
ender23 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:56:36 on December 19, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
this is the way i understood it: because kylo kept getting stronger, the force balances, and so rey got stronger and stronger, and somehoe that gave her ability to swing a lightsaber well. lol. i dunno how much ACTUAL sense that makes, but the force is not real, so why does it have to be logical.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:34:07 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
and this movie worked hard to say itโs not
It literally says the opposite, with all the talk of "Skywalker blood" from both sides. And, in fact, this goes all the way back to the OT with ESB.
Talent is absolutely inherited.
ender23 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:46:08 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
then how do you explain the parentage. and the kid at the end.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:56:15 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Talent being inherited doesn't mean that all talent comes from the same lineage. In the films at least, the sort of power the Skywalkers have has always been shown to be inheritable. It's why Palpatine wanted Luke, and why Snoke wanted Ben.
Someone can have Force powers without being a Skywalker, but the other relationship (being a Skywalker matters to having Force powers) also seems to matter.
ender23 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:57:49 on December 19, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
so why's it such a big deal rey came from no where.
๐๏ธ unipleb ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 11:10:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not convinced yet though and think this might be misdirection. Could it be the what-you-learned-was-a-lie moment of the next movie? RemindMe! 2 years "Rays parents again"
You know, I'm reading a lot of hate for the film because it didn't explain this or that, but in my mind. It doesn't need to.
Rey's parents were scavengers?. It ties with the last scene, hope can be born everywhere and not every single jedi master needs to be a Skywalker or a Kenobi
And as far as Snoke goes? Whoโs to say that it wonโt be explained in the next movie. Christ, they dusted off the Yoda puppet for this thing 30+ years later, and itโs pretty obvious that heโs incredibly powerful with The Force (Darth Plagueisโs death conquering thechniques)
๐๏ธ unipleb ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 11:22:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with this sentiment and I don't hate anything about the parents reveal. I just think that for something that was made such an important plot point (aka the trippy mirror scene) I'm not convinced they are finished with the topic in the next film.
schmeily2 ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 11:53:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It doesn't make any sense if it is true, as why would the force hide it from her? How would others on her planet not know and have told her? There's no way it ends at this.
Fakayana ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 13:38:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Didn't Kylo said that Rey herself suppressed her memory, because how much she doesn't want it to be true? She's been living in denial.
Also, that was the dark side of the force on that cave. Just like how Palpatine seduced Anakin with a false promise (Plagueis' power to cheat death), it's not inconceivable that the dark side would be tempting Rey with the "knowledge".
I think I'm taking a different starting point from you in that I'm treating all of Kylo's interactions with Rey after Snoke's death to be manipulative with the one aim of 'recruiting' her.
In regards to the cave, do you mean she got no answer because she was unwilling to be tempted by its power? To me it felt like a "all that matters is you and your decisions... think of how awesome you could be" and left the question unanswered.
Fakayana ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:18:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
think of how awesome you could be" and left the question unanswered
Oh I'm thinking more along those lines, too. The dark side never really had an answer, but it still tempted/baited Rey with that knowledge.
Sophobe ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 12:16:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well, I think they made it clear with the kid force pulling the broom.
Fakayana ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:33:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think a lot of people were expecting that this movie would be the one that explains things from TFA, and went away disappointed after that didn't happen.
To me, the opening crawl sets the expectation for the movie. TLJ could have discussed the political ramifications after the Republic's core planets were destroyed. But instead those are all on the opening crawl. "Yes, that really happened, the First Order is absolutely winning now, let's move on with the story."
I totally get if this pissed some fans, but personally I'm glad that they're not beholden to fix the mistakes of TFA, but to create a new story.
Isn't it more or less determined that Obi-Wan Kenobi comes from a nobody family as well? There's no great Kenobi bloodline, not like there is with the Skywalkers.
I'm honestly shocked that anyone believes Kylo's explanation of who Rey's parents are. I 100% think he was lying and trying to manipulate her into coming with him by making her think she had no family to be searching for. I don't believe for a second that who he said her parents were were actually her parents.
How far apart does this film take place between when the Empire was in control and hunting Jedi to current?
If I was a parent and realized that the Empire was hunting down and killing Jedi sensitive children I would try to hide them. Maybe the parents realized that their child would never be safe with them and decided to hide her to protect her.
IIRC he didn't say they were nothing at first, he made her say it then he did. I mean it's the same really, he planted the seed and got her to admit/believe it.
Honestly, I wasn't entirely sure what the director was aiming for with that scene.
I interpreted the mirrors showing her again as "the question doesn't matter. What matters is who YOU are". and it left her parent question still ambiguous. I can totally understand interpreting that scene differently though.
In all honesty, who could have predicted that the writer would decide not to have any kind of character whatsoever to Snoke, and to not even try to explain Rey's Sue-dom.
Fans weren't wrong to expect something out of the characters.
Shinsoku ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:32:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I do too. Within minutes RJ crushed what JJ build up two years ago. But sometimes it is just what it is. Nothing to delve into and try to find connections, where there are none.
Literally nothing?! Not Williams score, not the great performances from the three leads as well as the whe cast, not the lightspeed crash, not anything? I'm not saying it's a perfect movie by any means, I have quite a few flaws myself (the whole casino planet subplot shouldn't be in the movie), but to not like anything seems a bit off
I loved the film but I can see why it's getting hate.
They expected Star Wars and Johnson did a 180. Even Benicio del Toro character with a Han like attitude was expected to be on that walker, saving the day. Nope, a classic thief.
It destroyed the Skywalker saga and it open another one. Doing so, it destroyed to what we could expect of classic Star Wars
You're forgetting Reddit has a big hard on for mark hamill
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:24:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think everyone (myself included) was just really hyped to see ol' marky mark on the big screen again, but some people are still in denial that he basically did jack shit other than sulk and make a few marvel-esque snarky remarks. Don't get me wrong, I love Mark Hamill still, he was just gravely under-itilised in this movie.
wee_woo ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 13:27:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Kylo would need to have a gay romance with Snoke while underaged to be considered.
lisward ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:33:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nah people gonna say itโs good first, then shit it on, I can predict what theyโre gonna say. Shit movie not really a Star Wars movie. Contrarian for the sake of it. Killing plot lines for no reason, corporate crap peddled to the masses, shit acting, Mary Sue characters, basically ESB.
Exactly like force awakens.
Go classic Star Wars and reddit rages and says that itโs a shit series that relies on the nostalgia of the original trilogy, to the point where people were saying the new movies were better because โat least George Lucas tried something newโ.
Asiriya ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 18:42:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I 100% agree with those criticisms re: TFA though. JJ did exactly what he did with Star Trek - make a good movie that's largely powered on an insane amount of nostalgia. That's why I liked TLJ - even if I wasn't a fan of all the choices, I liked the willingness to break out of the old paradigm, and way more of it worked for me than didn't.
MandriII ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:13:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So you expect more people to hate it in a few weeks, or vice versa?
I think you're right. The hate will run out of steam I think. In real life I've only met one person who didn't like it and he like many posters here on Reddit was very impassioned about it. I suggested that he give it a couple of weeks then go see it again.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 16:18:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:42:46 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. The whole thing felt more like a Harry Potter movie to me.
Even though the resistance is in an absolutely hopeless situation the entire time time, their escape plans fail, the main characters get captured, the armored base plan immediately fails trapping everyone there, and so on..
Yet it's told in such a silly way that you never for one second actually feel like they're actually losing because there's always some magical gotcha that saves the day at the last moment. It's used so much it becomes entirely predictable.
Your Benicio del Toro criticism is one I don't get at all. We have had 2 years of whining and moaning that episode 7 was too similar to episode 4 and how JJ Abrams plays it too safe and the moment we get a character that is different we get whining that the character wasn't a copy of a beloved old character. What's worse is that I would bet all the money in the world that had he been in that walker as you suggest we would have had a bunch of fans complaining of the opposite "but he is just a copy of Han Solo with the same character arc but in a condensed manner".
I would have liked them to try something new, but this isn't a standalone film so it has to fit in tonally and thematically with the other Star Wars films. This one is so off the mark that without the aesthetics and old characters it wouldn't even be Star Wars.
Grazer46 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:52:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
but this isn't a standalone film so it has to fit in tonally and thematically with the other Star Wars films
No it doesn't, you just want it to. I think that a lot of people would agree with you, but that doesn't change the fact they don't have to do it.
How did it do a 180? It's just a bad movie. Regardless of it being a star wars movie.
Jezamiah ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:06:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Even Benicio del Toro character with a Han like attitude was expected to be on that walker, saving the day. Nope, a classic thief.
I actually liked this and felt it was very mature. Not everything will go the happy way you expect. And he was down to help him until they got caught. He didn't owe them anything and saved himself.
People hate TFA because it's too much like A New Hope, people will now hate The Last Jedi because it's too different
It is what it is.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:44:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
being "different" is so vague that this is a very dishonest way to dismisss that criticism.
if they had made a porn movie, being "different" would be a totally valid complain.
you just make it sound as if people can't decide and that is very dishonest. a new hope can be considered too similar and a last jedi can be considered too different for the star wars franchise and that added up criticism can make total sense. there is a lot of room inbetween too similar and too different. not hitting that spot in the middle is a totally valid complain.
Asiriya ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:44:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Different is fine, this wasn't different. It replayed ESB and RotJ, admittedly twisting them a little bit, and the result was decent. But then they piled in a bunch of ridiculous sub plots. Ffs, Hux impatiently chases the cruiser for fucking days without thinking to launch his fucking TIEs. WTF????
I was just thinking exactly that. I really enjoyed it because of it being different, if it was just more original trilogy it would just get boring.
Drama79 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:04:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Benicio's character was Lando 2.0 - I saw that pivot coming a mile away. A rare bit of franchise fan service, I thought.
aulum ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:29:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly why I like it. The 180 is something the series surely needed. It's opening doors for different things. The whole movie is about it. I loved the DJ character ( i won't have included the lisp, especially not for comic relief) But that is at least a really time thief. Like Han should have been. Maybe he'll star in de Rian Trilogy
so it destroyed what people loved and the only reason most people are invested in this new trilogy, and left them with a story not worthy of being in the same conversation as star wars. this trilogy will be remembered for killing the franchise and disney will just move on to the next one, i wonder if theyll consume harry potter next, or maybe lord of the rings? who knows but whatever it is will be tainted forever. at least they cant change the past and we will always have the lucas era of star wars, basically the real star wars. anything besides what he and his team makes is just fan fiction.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:19:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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Sw3Et ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:48:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I fucking loved Force Awakens. This one is crap though. I hope JJ can save it with the 3rd.
Fiti99 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:25:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well this isnt classic star wars, this is a new star wars
The score is an important part of a movie, similar to lighting. You need them to be good to make a good movie. But if the first thing you have to point to is a good score, the movie is probably off to some degree.
Williams Score was a total phone in, I wouldn't use that as an example...
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:13:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
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Indrigis ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:29:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was more like "Hey, wait, you had the ability to do it all along?!"
Sw3Et ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 21:49:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why didn't they hyperspeed into the death star?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:22:41 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Furthermore why did someone need to pilot the ship? Do they not have remote control? Why not remote control an x wing at hyper speed into the Death Star?
Indrigis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:07:04 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you hyperspeed into the Death Star it will explode. Many Bothans died to bring us this information.
Obviously, if the FTL tech implies the ship just accelerating to light speed, and not instantly shifting into hyperspace, then ramming something while accelerating should have the destructive effect.
The big question is why the director chose to break convention and use this in TLJ, making all the prior movies look stupid...
The Williams score was such a let down. Don't get me wrong, all the motifs and callbacks to the other films were great. But I couldn't tell you how a single piece of new music went in that film.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:07:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When you don't like a film, even the good parts become infected, because by then you just don't care.
This movie did the typical 3 diverging storyline bits like other Star Wars movies and I must say, I wasn't a fan of 2 of them. Movie was only interesting IMO during the Rey/Skywalker parts of the movie.
Malarazz ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 13:54:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's odd because that movie was perfect.
Sw3Et ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 13:58:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You'll look back on that comment one day and laugh.
I had a $50 bet that Snoke was Plagueis. The other party said he would just be a weak force user. First half hour, we see cross the galaxy force use, fucking Sith lightning. I'm like "Oh Boy, can't wait for my $50". Then when he does that super strong force connection thing I'm like "THE REVEAL IS RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER"... then nothing.
I feel like in 6 months they'll announce "We meant for Snoke to be Plagueis but didn't want to confuse the fans with a stupid name drop".
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:20:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why would a name drop be in the movie... It'd be khan all over again, just absolutely pointless. It's not a "reveal" if the reveal means nothing to the audience, I wish I had friends who'd take these kinds of bets
Well, here was my thought process on making the stupid bet.
Narrative reasoning: There is a Sith or Sithlike person training Kylo Ren. Either Snoke came along and taught himself the ways of the Sith. Or he was somehow connected to Sith line, either as a previously unnamed apprentice of Palpatine, or, as I thought, an older master who was thought to be dead.
Production reasoning: There are a bunch of stupid trends going through blockbuster movies including Disney/Marvel projects. They like to do things that they think is clever misdirection; the old "Oh you thought the villain was Y, well it's actually X". And you mentioned another; the Khan indecent. See also Blofeld, etc. It's misguided fan service, I guess? I simply thought stupid mistakes would go on being made.
Clues (that were either me looking into it too much, or less likely, things that will be confirmed when Snoke's true identity is finally revealed! (I'm not hopeful)): Snoke looks like a Muun. Plagueis was a Muun. The Snoke leitmotif sounds similar to the score playing in the background of the scene where Palpatine tells Anakin 'the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise. Only have to listen 10 seconds in. Snoke's face is all fucked up, and could be explained by him surviving a mortalish wound. And Plageuis is said to have been able to cheat death. If one character can come back, seemingly from the dead, it's not a chopped-in-half Darth Maul who built spider legs out of garbage - it's the guy that is explicitly stated to have life preserving capabilities!
And it's not necessarily pointless. It doesn't make sense outside of the self-contained narrative of the standalone film, but then again, it is Episode 8 in an ongoing saga. Fans who have watched Episode III will recognize it.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:16:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah these are all fair reasons aha. I reread my last comment and it was meant to be a bit tongue and cheek, teasing you about the bet but I think it may not have come off that way (and if that's the case, that's my bad). Honestly, in the EU it's very likely that snoke will turn out to be plagueis (even though it wasn't revealed in the movies) and they definitely could have done a "khan" or "Blofeld" moment (especially considering the executive producer).
The soundtrack similarity is also a good catch, honestly the fanboy in me gets mad whenever Darth plagueis is even mentioned (purely because palpatine making up a bullshit story about the power of the dark side is such a great plot point in III). I've always hated the convenience of plagueis being made canon in the EU as being sidious' master, kinda ruins sidious as a manipulator if it turns out he was telling the truth about the dark side being able to preserve life.
Good luck with any bets you might take in future! Again, was meant to be tongue and cheek but some of my salt about plagueis' existence might have carried over...
Lobonerz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:27:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Technically your friend was wrong too Snoke definitely wasn't weak. And there's no proof he ISN'T Plagueis...
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:14:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Or who the hell that guy was that had the Skywaker map at the beginning of TFA.
And honestly that kind of killed the movie for me. They had SO much room to be creative and really do something with those, and Rian was like "lol nope"
Snoke may not be dead. If he is in fact Darth Plagueis, he can return. I mean...look at those wicked scars he had. This can't be the first time he's been struck down.
Dous91 ยท 743 points ยท Posted at 12:50:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did Finn and Rose actually achieve anything in the film? Because I feel their whole trip was pointless.
I actually liked that. I liked that the standard mission to heroes to infiltrate and bring down the empire didn't work. It's a major curveball cause you expect their mission to end up being the crucial saving grace for the resistance like always. They should have dealt better with the aftermath though. Like Finn and Rose ending in captivity or feeling intense guilt. But they just continued on like they didn't just cause hundrerds of people to die.
Yeah totally agree. Neither of them are master spies so instead of saving the day like we all suspected they fail.
It also shows how Finn's recklessness got people killed. If he hadn't let them go then del toro wouldn't have been able to betray them.
Back on the finn and rose are not spies thing, I liked how we never saw del toros character have a red flume tattoo or secret red flume pin or something. They didn't manage to get who they came for, they found a scoundrel and paid for it in the end.
Derron_ ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 23:54:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'd say it's Poe's fault more than theirs as he was trying to act like the leader and went behind Holdo's back approving it. His plan to go behind her back ruined their actual plan. Holdo doesn't need to tell Poe about her plan because he's only a pilot due to his demotion.
Rose seemed to get a promotion actually. After she got back she became "one of the main guys" and seemed to have some command and got sent on important missions.
No. Stop. Don't like it. If you like it then they do it again. There either has to be a payoff for that side mission or there needs to be way of telling the audience why there won't be a payoff, and that in itself becomes a payoff. All that screentime was was shitty and empty padding with the worst writing of any star wars film to date.
gregsy112 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 00:29:36 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They ignited the 'spark' in the little kids on the casino planet; the spark they refer to throughout the film that will light the fire that will bring down the First Order!
Yoda told Luke that a teacher should teach his students about failure. The whole movie deals with this. How you bounce back from failure and how there's always hope even after screwing things up.
Well they are treasonous rebels and the empire is only trying to stop Space ISIS from killing more citizens...
Edit: For the people PM'ing me. The Jedi/Rebels are totally ISIS. Theyre lead by a wierd religion of old men in robes and sandals who blow up government property , say theyre right all the time, introduce young kids to weapons, manipulate peoples minds and believe in an aftelife. Oh also the mostly recruit in sandy areas. They're the villains. Dont root for the villains.
Yes they do, remember good is subjective. They brainwashed R2, lied to the gaurds d manilulated their brains, tied to scam a junkyard owner out of caps, and leg ewoks xesecrate graves s d eat human fleah because theh "won".
Asiriya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:48:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The first Order are Britain during the time of the Dutch East India company. Theyre small and want power, but the Dutch control everything, so they're willing to even hirt their cause for even a little ground.
The Empire is so big and vast in the galaxy that theyre too busy between wierd bullshit between two parties.
Also if the Rebellion won the ln in 30 lost control of a galaxy, where they competent to begin with?
Asiriya ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:38:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Empire
Which Empire?
if the Rebellion won the ln in 30 lost control of a galaxy
Okah the rebellion is hinted at winning in ROTJ. If the rebels win and install a government of their choice and are now back to fighting that means theh really suck and that the empire still is strong.
The Empire is the main protagonists of the original trilogy. You should watch those movies, because you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
Asiriya ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:41:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I have no idea why you're talking about the Empire at the same time as the First Order.
Asiriya ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:01:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No I'm not. I genuinely don't understand, we're 30 years after the OT and as far as I'm aware the Empire doesn't exist, just the Republic and the First Order, with the Resistance as a tiny rebel group. They don't go out of the way to make it clear though...
You also wrote :
if the Rebellion won the ln in 30 lost control of a galaxy
I still don't understand what that's supposed to mean.
He's struggling to say that after winning in the first trilogy, the rebellion must've done a shitty job if they've lost control to another guy using the dark side of the force.
Asiriya ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:29:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ahhh. Poor argument? Much harder to maintain a democracy than a dictatorship, especially when your dictator is a god.
They were trying to make Boba Fett 2.0. Cool armor, physically impressive, we hear how badass they are but they don't do a whole lot, and both died in a lame way.
nommas ยท 53 points ยท Posted at 21:20:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Fett was cool because he was faceless and mysterious. Phasma is only cool because she has shiny armour. We know she's a First Order military commander, and now we know she is a blonde human. The moment we saw her eye, all that faceless mystery sinks away.
It's hard to make a character cooler than Fett. Part of the reason why Fett was so badass was because he wasn't the focus, just a side character that did his job. Phasma has too much attention and focus on her, so she won't be as interesting as a result of that.
Fnhatic ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 03:34:32 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Phasma is cool to me because it's fucking Gwendoline Christie. She deserves better.
nommas ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 04:23:39 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Tell me about it! I love her so much and I was so hyped when I saw Phasma was returning in this movie. Even with what happened to her in TLJ part of me was like "maybe she'll be back next movie, and cooler!". Such a waste of potential. Great actor, great character design, gone to poor writing.
ESB Boba Fett just oozes competence, though. He's the only one who wasn't fooled by Han's float-away-in-the-garbage trick, he tracked them and called in the Empire, and even backtalked Vader himself. Yeah he's not on screen much, but every moment he is, he's 100% in control. ROTJ completely undoes this because Lucas is an idiot sometimes, but ESB is why people like Boba Fett.
Phasma is cool at first, but as soon as Finn captures her she caves to his demands. Then in TLJ she has one admittedly cool fight scene, but then she presumably dies. Both movies she's been in, she's just been lame.
Nah, she's alive. Helmet was only cracked and it left a mystery of what her face is like. She'll be back and have her helmet removed in the last movie.
Fett did not die in the Sarlacc pit; he survived thanks to his armour. Phasma is implied to have died, she could very well have survived. Her armor is super tough, probably not cortosis tough like Fett's, but they showed onscreen that it can stand up to blaster fire. It's quite possible that she will either return on IX or on other media like Fett.
Boba was at least useful up until his embarassing death. I assumed that they would develop Phasma in this movie since she didn't do shit in the first one - I was quite surprised to see that she yet again didn't do shit and that she now is seemingly dead. Why would you bring her back if you're not interested in doing anything with her.
T0yN0k ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:19:54 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why even create her character?
Ev0lt4 ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 14:35:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's an understatement. Easily a contender for the worst character ever.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:19:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Do people actually like her? The character not the actor. From the very first trailer I thought she looked stupid, too tall, too chrome, silly damn weapons and her voice... Isn't menacing at all
Imagine the hatred for the whole creation together if Brienne of Tarth was a nobody under there, just some random shoe horned big woman.
At least going into TFA fans could say โitโs Brienne in a Boba Fett role!โ
Even now, itโs โGwen Christie is wasted on this,โ instead of โInternet sends death threats to unknown actress for captain phasmaโs existwnce.โ
That scene didn't make sense at all. So they are preparing to execute them, then hyperspeed ram happen (which should happen waay before that) and star destroyer end being up ripped apart. Now you can see dead stormtroopers lying dead beside Finn, but lo behold Msr. Aluminium can walk through a functioning door, like nothing happened.
Do they have countless clones of phasma and just sending them out for shit and giggles?
baktiar77 ยท 44 points ยท Posted at 16:26:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I thought Rose only did maintainence work and hence was fangirling so hard over Finn in their first scene.
How did she in the course of a couple of hours(assuming the fuel was running out in 6 hours) or a day or so, become such a tough nut cracker with great fighting and flying skills? ๐ค
[deleted] ยท 155 points ยท Posted at 14:46:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I kind of cringed at Rose's dying words, it was akin to the Suicide Squad's "I already lost one family, I'm not losing another" line. Their plot was so unnecessary and uninterested I was just left thinking, huh? why does she love him exactly? what have they actually exchanged other than walking around a casino, riding horses and following a theif around for a while.
barandor ยท 158 points ยท Posted at 17:24:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I kind of cringed at Rose's dying words
Then I've got some bad news for you, she survived. Finn called out for a medic when he dragged her in. Although maybe they can't find one since the entire rebellion fits in the Millenium Falcon at this point and they kill her of that way.
TG-Sucks ยท 47 points ยท Posted at 18:46:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Speaking of which, how the hell did they even get back to the base? It was pretty far away from the gate, and they were right up at the line of walkers. Did he carry her all that way unnoticed?
barandor ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 18:47:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He used the force.
[deleted] ยท 40 points ยท Posted at 19:44:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I found it funny when Finn accosted the thief (whose name I don't recall) for not having any idea what Rose's medallion meant to her. Neither did Finn, as I recall - the two never spoke about it. At least, not that we saw.
Tsenta ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 17:32:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rose feels like a Hunger Games character, just even more preachy.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:36:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It takes a fuck ton of courage to turn your back on the First Order and flee with a high value prisoner.
Heโs basically a legend in the making for the resistance.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:57:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Movie relationships have been built on less. What have they done but save one anothers lives, go through hell, learn about each other and take on a almost certainly suicidal run together.
Christ, I once started planning a life with my barista because she put a heart in chocolate dusting on my hot chocolate.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:07:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Stories are not real life, you can rationalise it all you want, but their story wasn't interesting.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:21:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, I'm not arguing it's interesting, they, barring providing a little hope to kids on the casino world, were utterly pointless. Didn't make that story arc unrealistic. Just dull.
people complained for years about the lines of dialogue in the prequels that sounded cringey. looks like disney doesnt want to be outdone.
Minscota ยท 218 points ยท Posted at 13:34:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Finn is overall a pretty pointless character. You could of given his entire plot in the first movie to poe and the movie wouldnt have changed that much.
Which makes me mad. Finn has so much POTENTIAL. I mean, he is an ex-stormtrooper, trying to find his place in the galaxy. They clearly dont know what to do about him.
funktion ยท 125 points ยท Posted at 15:00:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They sent him to the most boring locale possible to do one of the most pointless side quests possible. I was expecting him to die in the "hoth" battle just so that they wouldn't have to write for him anymore.
Gets stranded near the first order forces before the cannon fires and then, off camera, walks all the way back across open ground dragging Rose without being shot or captured.
[deleted] ยท 43 points ยท Posted at 15:55:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 19:07:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Or at the very least let Rose fucking die.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 19:13:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Asiriya ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 19:49:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If only.
stabbybit ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 23:42:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Kill off the Black Guy in Disney's Conspicuously Diverse Star Wars trilogy?
I got so excited when it looked like that's what was going to happen. I would've been sad but at the same time, what an unexpected move, killing one of the three "leads". But no. Instead we get a shitty, shoehorned romantic subplot.
frvwfr2 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 02:59:26 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly my thought, I was like "no fucking way here it goes!"
I didn't really see it as romantic, more one-sided tbh. Finn doesn't reciprocate when Rose leans in to kiss him coupled with his reaction after reuniting with Rey.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:52:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"You get the dream job of designing a fantasy casino... for Star Wars"
"Say no more."
makes it a boring ass regular fucking casino, with people in regular dress war and regular games with the surounding landscape resembling to the only other location that is cut away to
TG-Sucks ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:55:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, why the hell would you waste such an opportunity on such a pointless and boring side story. It should have been Poe, Finn and Rose on separate, important mission running parallel to the Rey and Luke story. Or better yet, maybe Poe, Finn and C3PO. Poe and Finn are supposed to be best buds now or something, but we never get to explore it. Poe is supposed to be a major character, but he doesn't really do anything so far outside the cockpit.
I heard some rumblings about 2 years ago regarding about how Daisy Ridley and John Boyega really had problems with each other during the promo circuit and aftermath of TFA, where she was tired of his ego and him bringing like 8 of his buddies to everything and all their antics and treating the whole process like a group of kids going to Disneyland instead of a young actor playing a dream role but still keeping it professional.
It would explain why thereโs so much less screen time between the two in this film, other than of course Dagobah 2.0.
Eh, Finn's entire character is so mishandled. His defection is poorly built up. He was being brainwashed for his entire life, and suddenly decides to flee when his buddy dies on one of the missions? That's all it takes to undo decades worth of conditioning? Even then, instead of being a troubled person struggling with his past, he is often reduced to comic relief. I mean, it's Disney alright, but if they are not willing to properly execute a darker characters how it's supposed to be, why even bother?
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:07:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He was being brainwashed for his entire life, and suddenly decides to flee when his buddy dies on one of the missions?
He was a janitor, on his first mission, where he witnesses the death of a fellow stormtrooper and the mindless execution of civilians.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 21:33:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Then the First Order must have the absolute worst military bootcamp in the history of the Star Wars universe. What kind of Mickey Mouse operation are they running? Oh wait..............
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:06:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't remember TFA much but how come they didn't do anything with the rebels not trusting him or smt? He's ex-empire and the rebels are just fine with him walking around doing important shit like what?
Maybe it was addressed in TFA tho.
zatpath ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:08:04 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He is, unfortunately, a garbage man/maid, who defected.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:21:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's another thing that Dick Nose (JJ. Abrams) fucked up. Finn should have been an actual lowly janitor or contractor type, who only joins the First Order because he's stuck in poverty, but sees the evil that is the First Order so he helps Poe escape. Then you could have built up his character. In a way, it would have mirrored Luke Skywalker's journey from ANH to ROJ, and gave something the fans might have cared about. I don't blame Rian Johnson for this btw.
[deleted] ยท 98 points ยท Posted at 14:47:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I like Finn, and he was a nice sidekick character in Force Awakens, his plot was just so god damn pointless in this movie, it's a shame.
eXclurel ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 19:34:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nothing he does leads to anything. He tries to stop the tracker, he fails. He tries to sacrifice himself to save the rebel base, he fails. And these take a lot of time in the movie. There is no payoff in anything he does.
It's almost as if this movie is trying to put across the idea of hopelessness being a driving force to this battle between the two sides.
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 19:39:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not to mention there weren't even any nice set pieces, I didn't watch star wars to see some LA Hills bullshit casino planet, that was probably the most offensive part of the movie to me.
And christ I forgot about the tracker, what even was the point of that? he just ends up giving it to Poe by the end of the first act and loses all significance in the plot aside from its original purpose, which Finn had 0 effect on.
fuck no, give everything form poe to finn instead, i seriously dread that they are setting poe with rey
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:00:34 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
His arc in this film was clearly building to badass self-sacrifice to become the rebel hero he was supposed to be. But then Disney realised killing off a minority lead would lead to public outcry and chickened out, leaving his arc pretty lame.
This is it. This movie made no sense. The whole Casino plotline achieved NOTHING, except for the release of caged race creatures and a little boy being inspired by the rebellion. What the hell was that even about.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:54:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
From my point of view, they tried to do something. Ultimately, they failed. They were pretty gung-ho and naive. I think you can allow some of the protagonists to fail. But still, that storyline was pretty weak and a tad too long, imo.
Their travel to Canto Bight made possible the last scene, where the poor boy force-pulls the broom then holds it like a lightsaber against the nightsky. The boy who saved them and got the Rebel ring.
I actually loved that they achieved nothing, like every damn plan in SW taking on huge odds usually works and you get a โhere we go againโ feeling; and then they fuck up. Was great.
Thats the entire point of their subplot and one of the main themes of this movies. That the world is not so storybook and that a lot of the times shit fails. That hairbrained scheme that involved a turncoat, a mechanic, and a droid to recruit a random code-breaker and save the day? yeah it didn't work out.
[deleted] ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 15:57:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I loved every moment of Finn and Rose. They brought heart and reality to a superficial surface level portrayal of the Star Wars universe by the prequels. They are people who try to do big things and when it fail have to grow with the punches. They are grand. I hope for a whole lot more of Rose, the best Star Wars character in a long while,
Asiriya ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:51:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was fucking stupid, and all because of Hux fucking chasing the ship. If it was just them getting up to an adventure, fine. Personally I still don't think that belongs in a Saga film. This could have been a Finn spin off in a few years.
Ratachu ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 01:43:49 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Although physically they achieved little, I think it was some neat progression of Finn's character from TFA. He's gone from what is essentially a deserter, a coward fleeing his life, to standing up for Rey and looking out for her, to finally accepting that he has a role to play, be it as a hero, a martyr, or part of something bigger. It was subtle, but I thought the subtext of his development was far more enjoyable than the setting he was in. That was what kept the scenes with them so interesting, for me.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:30:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was worse than pointless. It damaged the entire film (deus ex BB-8, terrible CGI adventures as bad as pod-racing, destroyed the pacing, no payoff, no relation to the main plot). It was terrible.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:18:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They managed to cheat death more times than the Flash so there's that.
chiefyk ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:31:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think thatโs the point.
smitcal ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:14:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I wasnโt keen at all for Finns character this time which is a shame because I thought he was amazing in force awakens. Also Poes character was kind of pointless with that whole mutiny thing.
The entire point of their story was that it shows Poe's character progression from "shoot first, ask questions later" to someone who considers their actions, and how best to act in a situation.
The entire point of what Holdo said to him at the start of the film, where his recklessness got half the Resistance fighters killed.
MakVolci ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 07:29:22 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with this. In every movie so far the heroes succeed despite ridiculous odds. This is the rare occasion where an impossible mission stays impossible.
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 16:32:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I did read and their action did have big remnifications, they brought hacker guy to the ship, he revealed transport's position and it killed most of the Resistance.
They failed, they failed spectacularly, they got more people killed just like Po did with his attack on the dreadnought
gcunit ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:12:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It introduced those stable children, leading to the closing scene with broom boy, which presumably has some relevance to IX/future films.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:31:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think what I like is that missions can fail and this showed it.
RavenK92 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:08:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That was sorely missing from the OT, everything Luke Han and Leia did always worked, hence the "Stormtroopers can't aim for shit" stigma that's still prevalent
I agree with both ppoints. But if we actually think about phasmaโs escape from a trash compactor, Han, Luke, leia and chewbacca only get out because c3po and r2 were lucky enough to get to a control panel unnoticed and be able to let them out. All phasma had to do was get someone to open it for her. Much more pheasable then in ANH.
[deleted] ยท 791 points ยท Posted at 12:31:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
In the final moments of the movie Finn opens a drawer on the Falcon and it shows the founding Jedi books which were in the Temple. Rey must have grabbed them when she left.
That means Yoda appeared, summoned a lightning storm and burned down the tree for shits n giggles.
I think the movie showed how u fanboys read in too much into these films.
Halo4356 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:13:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Goddamn
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:48:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I also figured it was to teach Luke his final lesson. He still had that same problem as in Empire and was too fixated on physical objects. I thought that was a really cool moment.
skapuntz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:54:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yoda told Luke she had the books.
rebb1t ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 15:26:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
For what purpose, he does like 30 min after, Yodas a bitch
After saying 'she already has everything she needs to know' - looking back on it my thoughts were that he was burning it down so Luke didn't realise that she had taken them, otherwise he would probably have gone after her to destroy them.
pedja13 ยท 79 points ยท Posted at 14:18:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
โthere is nothing in that library that the girl rey does not already posessโ is actually what he says
stabbybit ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 23:54:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ahh, the old Obi Wan Kenobi defense. What he told Luke was true, from a certain point of view.
Aes Sedai shit. One of my major irritations with the self-righteousness of the Jedi, that and how their own fear of the darkside is what causes people to turn, essentially projection so hard that they create their own fears in flesh.
I enjoyed the light speed kamikaze ram into Snokes ship, but doesn't it kind of make a mockery of all the previous 'how do we destroy the giant super weapon/ship' plots?
Dramatic trench run to destroy the Deathstar? Why bother, just ram a few cruisers at lightspeed into it, same for Star Killer base.
Minscota ยท 356 points ยท Posted at 16:05:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Also the fact no one needed to die because auto pilot exists in the universe.
I understood their plan like this: The cruiser holds their attention long enough until the others are far enough away, then goes to light speed to draw them completely away. That would require somebody to activate light speed.
You think light speed can only achieved by human input? You think it would be impossible for an auto pilot to engage light speed?
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 21:41:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I get that... But I can also respect a character going down with the ship.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:23:21 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There used to be an explanation for the absence of autopilot... The Republic lost an entire fleet of automated ships because of that. It's a plot point in one of the Thrawn novels
Minscota ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:04:45 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The novels were thrown out and are no longer cannon.
If hyperdrives on massive objects can do that, why aren't they consistently used as weapons?
Why didn't the rebels use one of the ships running out of fuel to do the same thing hours earlier?
Biggest problem with the film for me.
noobule ยท 129 points ยท Posted at 20:56:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes but Star Wars is literally exists only because it ignores these kinds of questions
The Death Star is an absolutely bizarre extravagance. Lightsabers would be totally useless against intelligent opponents. Why is Storm Trooper armour is useless? Walker designs are all totally inferior to tanks, and even tanks are pointless with the tech level they possess. Capital ships are never equipped to deal with fighters despite constantly being destroyed by them. Armies are conscripts when superior clone and droid tech exists. Hunter-killer drones should be everywhere. Etc, etc etc.
I think i concede every point! I may just be too pedantic to be this franchise's intended audience.
On the subject of the scene we're discussing and stormtrooper armour though, when Finn and Rose are about to be executed the hangar bay they're in explodes.
Prior to the explosion they are two unprotected humanoids (admittedly prone) among a number of armoured humanoids, after it they are unschathed while all of the stormtroopers in their immediate vicinty are incapacitated. What the fuck?
Llaine ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 22:00:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Don't agree on the death star or lightsabers. A small moon capable of destroying planets is terrifying, and I honestly don't understand how force users are anything but super heroes? They can pre-empt opponents to the point where they deflect bullets.
But yeah it never made sense when the prequels introduced an army of droids being a thing. What's the use in clones then? So ethically reprehensible and inferior to boot haha
[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 01:23:27 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But yeah it never made sense when the prequels introduced an army of droids being a thing. What's the use in clones then? So ethically reprehensible and inferior to boot haha
This was addressed in Attack of the Clones. The one alien taking to Obi-Wan is giving her sales pitch, and mentions that clones are smarter and more versatile than droids, even with the obedience modifications.
Llaine ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 03:05:39 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I.. just, don't see how. Droids can be purpose built, don't need food, rest, shelter, etc. They don't need to be smart when they physically can't miss a shot.
It ruins the fantasy thinking about this but really, a bunch of dudes even if super good military ones are going to lose to AI droids every time.
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 03:48:47 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I get this from a logical sense, but the droids of the Star Wars universe are 1970s fantasy robots, not modern drones with all the capabilities we would expect. The battle droids used by the trade federation are portrayed as incompetent and numerous, some packing major firepower but all of them severely lacking in initiative and perception. The portrayal is a bit at odds with how they're described as "battle-hardened" by the Naboo security chief, but with how even a few security volunteers are able to fight their way through the palace's security droids and get to the leadership it's safe to say they leave a lot to be desired.
It's something of a story telling requirement, given how any reasonably logical portrayal of space warfare would be almost exclusively waged by drones.
Llaine ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:50:32 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, this is the problem with overthinking Star Wars really, and something lots of people fail to consider. There's so many concessions made for the sake of the story; it's fantasy. Same rules for the Jedi.
Well from what we know in game, AI is unpredictable and open to capture.
A droid can't have advanced knowledge of tactics, weapons or enemy locations, they basically have to be dumb and spoken to otherwise the enemy can hack them and gain information.
Clones can't be hacked, well force users can make them speak but everyone else can't.
Remember rogue one's assassin droid? Or R2 or B8? At various points they are all pursued because of information they carry.
It's a good reason to never let droids be in control of things if they can go rogue and divulge all your secrets with a few settings changed.
noobule ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:15:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Glassing a planet with Star Destroyers is plenty scary, and there's no way that building a Death Star the size of the moon is an efficient use of resources. That's like, literally a million Star Destroyers that could threaten dozens of planets simultaneously. And there's no 'all our eggs in one basket' problem.
I honestly don't understand how force users are anything but super heroes? They can pre-empt opponents to the point where they deflect bullets.
Well outside of Tartakovsky's Clone Wars series, Jedi have never been shown being able to fight off more than a handful of enemies at a time. And then they never get shot at from multiple angles. Or shot in the hands or extremities where they can't protect themselves with the blade? And people always just use regular blasters against them, like, where are grenades, automatic weapons, rockets, tasers, regular bullets that aren't reflected by light sabers, sonic or other weapons, gas attacks - nets?
Karavusk ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 02:03:20 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Actually the fact that the death star is useless is actually true and in the books/comics (pretty sure that is legend and not canon anymore). Thrawn said that it was a waste of resources and that they should build "literally a milliom star destroyers" but Palpatine wanted it as a sign of power and absolute force above everyone else. This would allow him to disappear and to basicall quit his job for the sake of exploring the force. Basically he wanted to replace himself with it, he wanted to make a new symbol for the empire.
Thrawn knew that it was stupid and tried to stop him but Palpatine said no and of course Thrawn followed his orders.
Pointless trying to use physical objects against Jedi when they can just stop them with the force, Jedi can even stop blaster fire mid air, or just absorb it entirely.
In reality Jedi spend way too much time deflecting blaster fire instead of doing what Vader did at the end of rogue one, pulling the guns out of their hands or just using the force is pin them all against a wall at once.
The Jedi don't use the force for audacious displays of power like that, but against a powerful Jedi there is literally nothing anyone could ever do to fight them if they really intended to hurt someone.
You have good answers for some of that if they would just think.
Lightsabers don't work if you aren't force-sensitive, you'd get blasted. Fits with the idea of peaceful jedi because they can't deflect a bolt back at you if you don't shoot. You be cool, they be cool.
Trooper armor should be better, that's stupid.
Walkers are about intimidation but yes, could be better protected.
Capital ships carry fighters to deal with fighters but the way it's usually depicted on film is dumb.
Clones and drone troopers in the early, early EU canon were considered like poison gas, we all agree not to use it because they were so awful the last time. War droids were illegal weapons in I think the first Solo trilogy and the original idea is that the clones in the clone wars were what the Republic was fighting AGAINST. So yeah, weapons used by baddies, general proscription against them.
The whole third act didn't make sense. For example how did "master hacker" new about those 30 ships, fleeing cruiser. Also Rey had great point in the end. How do we rebuild Republic? They have maybe 40 people. It would take them hundred of years, to create even small city.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:46:25 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Geez sounds like the movie is just a bunch of bullshittery
This is easily explained though, the First Order was sure that the entire Resistance had fled the ship, and there was no reason to think that anyone had been on the main cruiser.
It's only because of this that they didn't have enough time to react and shoot the cruiser down that the plan even succeeded. If this was common, the easiest way to deal with it would be to simply destrot the ship that's activating it's hyperdrive towards you.
But even if you did have people on board your ship and the enemy was trying to shoot you down you could just redirect your shields to deflect the barrage while youโre firing up your hyperdrive.
Also, wasn't it made clear by one of the First Order generals that the cruisers were too small (or quick, I can't remember) to be fired upon precisely? Yet they can shoot the transports just fine towards the end.
Also was it explained how the FO could track the Resistance through hyperspace?
Neknoh ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 21:09:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They couldn't penetrate the shields effectively
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:18:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They were too fast to get into the First Order's weapons' effective ranges to damage the shields; it wasn't an accuracy issue, which is why you could see the ship being hit constantly.
No that's still retarded. You can actually light speed in/out like she did on very small distances. So what you do is you simply light speed in for further aways, and they can't do anything, at all.
And this is considering the DUMB version already.
You can simply build relativistic weapons with this kind of technology. It has been done in many good SF books.
Also, teleported nukes or whatever bomb or even object you can think ok. You can just port in whatever shit you want.
Leafs17 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:24:22 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And why didn't the FO just make a short jump ahead of the fleet and turn around and fire? Han came out of lightspeed under the freakin shield of Starkiller base in the last movie.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:18:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
because starwas is and always has been a subpar story
Essentially, why are they (not necessarily the resistance in TLJ, but any military in this universe at all) pew-pewing hot plasma around when a lightspeed-capable piece of durasteel would do far more damage?
Because you can't put a hyperdrive on a piece of metal to get 100% success rate of hitting your target?
If we simplify everything to such strawmen arguments we could find plot holes in anything.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 23:28:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:58:16 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
For me the issue was that they expect us to suspend disbelief about the option of lightspeed weapons but then use one as a major component of the plot. It then became a bit much to ask.
Yeah, if it was never introduced, I wouldn't have thought twice about it. But now that I saw that scene, it confuses me as to why they didn't take down the death stars/starkiller base with this method.
Osmodius ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 20:55:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Absolutely, visually the best thing in the film, in any film for a while in fact.
Osmodius ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 22:18:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not just visually, the way it all froze, the sound stopped. Bloody gorgeous.
Like a better done version of the sonic boom bomb things in, uh, one of the new old star wars one.
Fnhatic ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:21:05 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My theater had a few people gasp, and then it was silent as a grave. And then some guy goes 'holy shit!'.
Osmodius ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:33:25 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was totally that guy. Fucking awesome scene.
Jay-Em ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 20:00:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I feel like they're abusing lightspeed to resolve impossible situations in these films. Like the Falcon jumping through the Starkiller Base shields at lightspeed, this kamikaze ram, and now the First Order have developed hyperspace tracking? That kind of changes everything.
Likes lots of other people are saying- the entire theatre was deathly silent as it happened where I saw it too, it was a great spectacle for sure.
ryan-a ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:25:49 on December 17, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I had my qualms with the movie - but you do understand that there's a first for everything, right?
Like do you think there were World War 2 vets watching on 9/11 and thinking "holy shit - why didn't we just hijack some passenger planes and fly them into the Reichstag building, etc"
Omegle ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:36:28 on December 17, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
well it took up to 2017 for terrorists to come up with the idea of ramming cars into people
If light speed Kamikaze, why wouldn't it immediately turn into a blackhole upon impact? :O
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:48:15 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Or make unmanned weapons that do that towards the enemy. The existence of such a weapon or technique would render massive ships useless.
gouflook ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:35:31 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Its a gamble, no one knows what happens when you light cruise towards another object. Also autopilot might cancel the flightpath if there's object on the way.
I've got two thoughts on why it isn't seen two often.
First is that the ship that got used was a rebel capitol ship (?). There's a chance those kinds of things are so big and costly that they're too valuable to use as kamikaze weapons, and that anything smaller has a much lesser effect.
Secondly is that the time to make a jump is pretty obvious and any ships seeing that would usually think to move out of the way, but the Empire were being cocky as fuck and Snoke's ship might be too large to manourve anyway. This would explain why you don't see ships of the same size using it in last ditch efforts earlier in the franchise.
The Death Star was much much bigger than Snoke's ship so wasting a capitol ship on a stunt like that could potentially not damage it enough, plus they already had a plan to destroy it.
At the end of the day that scene was too good to be upset that it hadn't been done sooner.
The biggest gripe I had with the movie is the fact that they had so many opportunities to give Leia's character a good sendoff, but decided to save her in the last minute.
Really confused about how they're going to include her in the next movie.
marcins ยท 354 points ยท Posted at 11:53:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Theyโll probably time jump to a slightly rebuilt rebellion, and sheโll have died at some point.
Choekaas ยท 251 points ยท Posted at 12:40:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Considering she was done filming episode 8, I don't think they had the hearts of re-arranging it so she dies anyway. But yeah, they need to do a big time jump, because she is safely in the Falcon now. It also seems like the original idea of Episode 9 would feature a scene with Kylo Ren and her, which must be scrapped to do something different.
I think Episode 9 might have it adressed in the opening crawl or start with a funeral. It would certainly up the stakes, that they feel so small compared to the First Order, talking about "all the people we've lost".
[deleted] ยท 164 points ยท Posted at 13:50:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Yeah I can't imagine a better way for them to start it considering what happened. Maybe even having Billie Lourd say something at the funeral in character about General Organa. 5 minutes at the start, quick glimpse into how far the Resistance has come and we go straight into the movie.
i will never call her general organa. like, all the other character names stay the same but they've got to give her some weird new identity and awkward scenes and dialogues because of weird social movements happening in the real world? no thanks.
because of weird social movements happening in the real world?
?? Leia's progression from Princess to General is fantastic character development. What's weird about it? It would be weirder if everybody insisted on calling her Princess when she's effectively Princess of nothing at this point...?
I disagree with what he is saying about Leia and Luke, but depending on the country he is in, it is very likely noone calls each other by their last names.
I'm from Brazil and almost everyone talks to each other on first name basis, even people who barely know eachother.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:12:30 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lol loads of people do. Literally out of all the people I watched that film with about half I call by their last name
When it's a pupil master relationship it's even more common, did you call your teachers by their first name?
aulum ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:27:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why do you hate it so much? I honestly loved it! It was such a cool moment for Leia. I love the fact that they are nerfing the force and it's devotion to " be a Jedi" in order to use it. It's like saying you should be part of a certain religion in order to be allowed to pray to a god. While you and me perfectly know that if you want to believe you can believe what ever you like. If the force is real in this world there shouldn't be a entrance exam for you to use it. But us as fans - we never saw anything other than this misuse. I feel it's an great step in the direction for Starwars, keeping the force relevant in any other story we're ever going to see. Yes it's an easy plot device, but also a creative gold mine. Yes it's less special, but is already less special, if your honest. Right? Might as wel make the best use of it. Because at the end of the film, when this little stable boy forcegrabbed that broom. That was.. a little..cool right? Come to think of it, Disney is kinda throwing it us right in the face. " The Force Awakens" oh and " the LAST Jedi"
It devalues the force and cheapens 40 years of culture/mythos with bland, feel-good 'everyone can be a jedi' sentiment that's just designed to sell more crap to more people and pander to the ultimately self-serving and manipulative political sentiments that are fed to people by corporations and the media.
aulum ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:34:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No man no, please. Why look at it like that? What is the point? I love the mythos and it doesn't cheapen it one bit. For 40 years we had the mega-force and now it's time for everyone to share a little force. Yes, it's media, yes it's money all that. But Everything is! Why not just take it for what it's worth. There will be so much more cinematic goodness to consume, stories get different, within the universe of Starwars, not some " something-like-starwars-indietitle-. And it will all be connected since we do that now. It is going to be great.
You have to consider, they had all her scenes done and she was relevant to the story at several points. Killing her off means reshoots, rewrites. Youโve got to have an appropriate reaction to it. If she died at the moment where she used the force then sheโs gone in the first 20 minutes, which means an already completed film has to be entirely rewritten
suss2it ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:34:34 on December 17, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well not entirely rewritten since she was in a coma for a lot of it.
My guess is that they wanted to make the movies Han -> Luke -> Leia themed and you can't really change that anymore. What really puzzles me, is that they said Carrie Fishers death is not going to affect the movies which it will do infinitely.
Every episode starts with a shot of space. A perfect Ep. 9 opener for me would be on a memorial to Leia floating among the asteroid field that was once Alderaan.
RunDNA ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:05:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Is being blasted out a window a fitting end for Leia "strong in the Force like everyone in my family, offspring of Darth Vader" Skywalker? Would it have been the dumbest death ever if Carrie Fisher was alive? Then it's still the dumbest death now.
[deleted] ยท 60 points ยท Posted at 14:13:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Leia should get a proper funeral scene for sure, but saving herself with the Force is dumb compared to what it used to take to be even competent with the Force. After TFA, it's just par for the course.
Remember when zero training with the Force for the most powerful Jedi ever just meant you were able to do pod racing?
Leafs17 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 02:37:36 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Remember when zero training with the Force for the most powerful Jedi ever just meant you were able to do pod racing?
Maybe it will get retconned that this is the real reason why the Jedi never accepted anyone over a certain age -- the kid could realize that Jedi discipline means nothing in terms of strength and that they came to be nearly as strong in the force with simply getting older as they would have in Jedi training.
Jedi training just helps people learn how to access their power and control it through discipline, it had nothing to do with "getting stronger with the force".
Nobody has said Leia hasn't been trained in the Force.
"Why didn't Leia develop her powers and understanding of the Force with Luke?" - me and a bunch of people after TFA
Answer in The Last Jedi:
She did.
And yup, you can take your force powers and run if you want, and Leia clearly did. You don't have to be a Jedi. And that makes perfect sense in this time period, unlike Count Dooku who took his Jedi Master title and left the whole Jedi Order to be a rich guy. So what was the point of Anakin not being able to love Padme? He could have just quit any day and went on developing his powers alone and kept his lightsaber (or built a new one). It's not like the Jedi Council keeps tabs on Jedi who quit and are also powerful enough to fight Yoda.
It makes no sense for Leia to have put on some Padawan robes and ran around like some simple recruit with Luke (and for all we know, she did). But I suppose nerds on the internet gotta nerd, and you can't have powers unless you "study the blade" for a while first, right? Wrong. In Star Wars you can.
Also, it's not like reaching out a hand and pulling something towards you with the force is considered a highly advanced jedi technique
Asiriya ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:43:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Using it to pull yourself towards something far more massive than yourself is not something we've seen before, and likely not as easy as pulling a lightsabre. I think it's stupid.
radol ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 00:13:03 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What about "force jump"? Essentially same principle
Asiriya ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 11:27:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe. What was my actual issue? I think when it happened it was unexpected and I presumed it had been written in to cover for Carrie's death. I thought it was great. Here's Ren about to kill his mother as he did his father and he can't. Then it happens anyway, and for the rest of the film he has to deal with the consequences.
We see carry frosting over, the life leaving her - fine. It's a decent way for things to end. Then suddenly the Force is allowing her to survive in a vacuum and letting her do something that we've not seen before. It might make sense, she's reasonably light and in an environment with no resistance... But it's too much suspension of belief. One of them might be ok, "oh she's used the Force to enter a coma!", or she's used the Force to maintain the atmosphere (maybe...), but both? It made her seem too powerful, too much like a God. Jedi are meant to be fragile, vulnerable, natural.
suss2it ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:38:21 on December 17, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You think that scene was added in because of Carrie's death? Then what about all the scenes with Leia that take place after that?
Asiriya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:04:56 on December 17, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No... While I was watching I thought this was their solution. Evidently it wasn't.
It really doesn't take much to pull yourself with no gravity or air resistance
Asiriya ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 20:39:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe.
Fnhatic ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:25:20 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was particularly how they showed it. I mean if they had showed her using the force to hold a pocket of air or something, maybe. But she literally just floated through space in an upright position. Like if you squinted you'd be able to see the strings.
And blow up a huge battle station from the inside in a vehicle you've never driven.
Fakayana ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:26:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
As someone who actually didn't mind the scene at all, I think it would be better if it's like closer to Luke's fake-out death when he was shot by the AT-ATs. Have some big smoke to imply she died, then reveal that she was able to make a force shield at the last second to keep her from suffocating. At least that way she only had to walk to the airlock, not fly towards it.
Like today tried to teach him with the xwing in empire
Size matters not.
Luke even explains the force is bigger than us it runs through us, Jedi battle meditation in the sith comics never killed anyone it just required great concentration, and nobody ever melted in the sunset from it, that was done across star systems aswell
Also that rock seemed to be a amplified meditation spot
Not sure what point you are trying to make here, what is not "dramatic" about being blasted out a window or impaled through the chest by reavers in the darkest hour?
Wash was killed to try to make you think Whedon was killing them all in the final battle, which had a purpose. Also Wash existed for 15 TV episodes and is not a pop culture icon like Princess fucking Leia. What I'm saying is that after Leia surviving all the shit in the OT and getting a "happy ending" in the end of Return of the Jedi it would be a betrayal to just have her blasted out a window later because Carrie Fisher died. I'm not talking about any dramatic heroes death. I'm saying she should die at peace like Luke. It's more than enough that out of our childhood heroes Han died a tragic death.
Having a time jump, then announcing her death in the opening crawl of ep.9 (and starting on her funeral) is easily the best way to go.
That was one of the greatest moments of the movies. She is a skywalker. We didn't cringe when Luke the farmboy noscope a deathstar why is the common reaction when Leia does similar be a cringe.
CGI was great. You realise the effect is supposed to show frosting cold in space, right? You say old woman, I say General fucking Leia showing she is a damn Skywalker too.
I know what the effect was supposed to be, and there were plenty of times throughout the film that I enjoyed the CGI, but in that particular shot it looked off to me. It would've been a magical shot to end Leia with, but when she was pulling herself in it looked weird, imo.
radol ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:18:26 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes I think this is good death for her. She was clearly not important afterwards anyway (if she was dead you would not even have to change most of the dialogs and after that part she contributed basically nothing important) and it would make whole movie more relatable- so that some physics rules apply for everyone and there is no plot armour for being blown out of a spaceship.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 01:16:46 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She is literally a Skywalker, who walked through the sky to survive
One re-shoot and she could have been the one to make the sacrifice. Have Leia stay on board, use a Stand In and Purple Hair with an over the shoulder if you need to. Cut the bridge scene and just keep the rest of the shots, bam, Leia gets that bad ass scene, and it doesn't feel so empty.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:14:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
prepare for zombie CG Leia Poppins
Jezamiah ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:09:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was already feeling emotional at "Nobody is ever gone"
You could hear collateral facepalm in my cinema when this scene happened.
Jay-Em ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:27:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think you have to remember that this film was 90% done by the time she passed. The plot we see of her is the one that was planned when she was expected to live to film Episode IX. I'm guessing Rian and the team thought that writing her out of this one via reshoots or whatever couldn't have been done satisfyingly.
Obviously if they'd known, the optimal ending for Leia could have been for her to take Holdo's place on the ship than goes to lightspeed right through Snoke's flagship. But they probably couldn't have shot in a good way after her passing.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:17:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Was watching Mark Hamill interviews on YT earlier and he said Harrison Ford was supposed to be the focus of the first film, him the second, and Carrie the third. Supposedly the writers had to change up a lot of the third due to her death.
wicket42 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:49:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Feels to me a bit like Rian said.....ah that can be JJโs problem.
You must realize that the whole movie was already in the can when she died right? What I'm saying is that you are coming at this with the hindsight of her real life death and thinking that they should have given her a proper send off and killed her in the movie when in reality at the time they were thinking she would still be around for the next one. You do realize that?
joed2605 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:21:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I liked that. It was far too predictable to have her die off and the initial point where you're meant to think she died was kind of terrible until she uses the force to come back. I'm not mad about it unless they really fuck up her character in 9. Right now I'm just impressed that they've taken on the challenge of having a living character in a film they've yet to film with a dead actress. CGI might be the answer though, Tarkin was pretty convincing in rogue one imo and young leia was decent too.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:18:56 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
CGI might be the answer though, Tarkin was pretty convincing in rogue one imo and young leia was decent too.
Extremely unlikely they'll do this. After her kind of cameo in Rogue One she said that she would never want any actress to have to wear her face again. So if she is in the next movie it will very likely be a Recast
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:26:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Or, I'll say something possibly crazy here; they'll recast her character...
joed2605 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:27:06 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well obviously that would be the normal choice but they didn't recast Tarkin or Leia in Rogue 1 and Ep 9 will almost certainly have a bigger budget so it's within the realms of possibility. She has such an iconic face, it would honestly look weirder with a different actress than CGI imo.
Episode IX was supposed to have her play a prominent role but that has been thrown out the window because they said that they would not digitally recreate her for the movie.
reminds me of that dude from the hottub time machine movie. where they knew he was going to lose his arm but it never happened.
Mortos3 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:38:54 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah there were a lot of moments that felt like they were setting it up for an emotional goodbye. Like Luke telling her 'people never really leave' (can't remember the exact quote).
I counted four death fake-outs. Or at least four characters with fake-outs. Leia with the spaceship, Luke with the gun fire, Fin about to sacrifice himself, and Rose to sacrifice herself.
I'd stopped caring for the most part by the end.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:54:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah. Fuck them for not being able to see the future or massively reworking a finished film because the actor died!
It's disappointing because nothing is set up for episode 9. It finished exactly where it started with all of the extra stuff answered (Snoke,rey's parents, luke stuff). I guess episode 9 will be just one giant battle.
[deleted] ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 19:22:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yup, after Ep7 we had questions that needed answers, but after Ep8 there isn't really anything to make us come back for Ep9
Seriously. I don't give a shit about any of these characters, and nothing has been set up for the next movie. I didn't like The Force Awakens very much but at least it had interesting ideas and made me want to see where the story would go.
mthrndr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:14:58 on December 17, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Star Wars Revolutions
MurWur ยท 74 points ยท Posted at 20:46:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Look I was in that group of people that thought all the Snoke theories were ridiculous and I hated that people actually wanted him to be Plagueis or even Mace Windu BUT with that being said, I'm incredibly annoyed that we never got to learn anything about him at all and his death was underwhelming.
His entire character served no purpose. Hell, he's not even responsible for turning Kylo Ren to the dark side apparently. Now we're two movies in... and at this point I'm not even sure who the main antagonist is. Hux would have been a good one but he's been boiled down to some bumbling idiot who answers to Ren. Kylo Ren is being continually set up as a sympathetic characters, so he's not the big bad guy. What's going on with these movies and why should I care anymore?
No Finn don't go and kill yourself and destroy the First Order's huge weapon that'll fuck everybody up! Let me save you, get myself killed, and leave that huge weapon in tact.
Hope Rose is fully dead
Akranidos ยท 44 points ยท Posted at 00:53:20 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That was honestly my chief complaint with the movie. Finn had a really powerful scene coming up with his suicide attack on battering laser. I was surprised they were going to take him out like that but I was with him. I was prepared for it. Then she crashes into him (which could have easily killed him hell it almost killed her). It jerked me out of the moment and then you find that she basically risked him, and the Resistance over a crush.
I get the message they were going for and I get that this movie was very message driven (which I largely appreciated), but that one I think backfired a bit.
It was established when they first meet that there's a bit of celebrity worship going on, so I suppose it was building on that. I do think one of them should've died though.
That's an incredibly diplomatic way of saying Rose should have died.
[deleted] ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 17:16:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'd have preferred Finn. He's just so very pointless, and a nice two film character arc from scared storm trooper to full rebel in his dying moments would have been nice
Finn should definitely have died there. They wanted the emotional payoff of a heroic sacrifice scene without actually killing off anybody.
Osmodius ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 20:59:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was kind of hoping that Finn would just do the "Woah, what the hell, no thank you" and they hadn't just magically fallen in love out of thin air.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 23:38:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Osmodius ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 00:00:29 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well we saw him somewhat fawning over her on the falcon at the end. So I'm not holding out for a lack of lame romance subplot.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 01:22:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean she did still save his life and essentially sacrificed herself for him. She doesn't deserve to be ignored.
_Ardhan_ ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:25:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"I just stopped you from potentially allowing our friends several minutes of time to find an escape, let's kiss as the First Order marches forward to murder them all!"
ixvael ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:38:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I also don't understand how Rose managed to catch up to Finn considering he was going in a straight line at full speed, both of them miraculously evading all the AT-AT lasers.
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 19:35:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Everything with rose was pointless.
Finn is also a pointless character, Finn and Poe should have been one single character from the very beginning.
Leckere ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:31:13 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thought that scene had provided the definitive counter-punch to Marion Cotillardโs terrible death scene in The Dark Knight Rises, but unfortunately Rose had to survive. (But seriously, that scene was fucking hilariously bad.)
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:54:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Where are you from? Where did you see the film?
tm95835 ยท 245 points ยท Posted at 13:02:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
General Hux went from Nazi leader to punching bag overnight. Domhnall Gleason should be pissed
I really felt kind of salty about this. He was just had this love-to-hate charm going on in TFA, and now he's just there to be the butt of jokes from the characters around him.
Ahh, that makes sense. Honestly, I wasn't a fan of TFA. I think I saw it 1.5 times. Once at the press screening, and half a time when my neighbor was watching it when I came over.
camzabob ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:12:26 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think they meant that Hux's last appearance in TFA is 27 minutes before the end.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 07:45:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Can you imagine them treating Tarkin like that? The empire has its sniveling worm members yeah but the men in charge are tough and cold. How am I meant to feel any menace from them when the moment Hux appears he is prank phone called like moe syzlak!
Seriously, nothing Jar Jar did made me cringe more than Leia supermanning through outerspace.... after just literally bombed to hell. She was the closest to the window she should be deader than Ackbar who I didn't know was even in this movie until they told me was dead.
Fast and furious handled Paul Walker better than this
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:56:41 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Brick and Brothers Bloom I thought Rian Johnson made more to please himself. It seems without the benefit of heavy feedback from Shane Black as on Looper or a script from Breaking Bad writers, Rian's lost touch with audiences.
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 02:55:36 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is supposed to be the first time we see Leia use the force... and they could have done it so much better.
The fact is coming right after Carrie Fisher's death make it worse
ixvael ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:39:45 on December 26, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It just occured to me that Leia could have just used the Force to make the missle not hit the command bridge. If she had enough experience to resuscitate herself in space and then fly back, she could have just as easily stopped the missiles mid-flight or redirected them Luke-style.
[deleted] ยท 63 points ยท Posted at 23:40:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
holy shit every comment is negative. Im not upset cause I don't give a shit about the movie but...damn, if Reddit doesn't like a star wars movie it must be true shit.
There was some great scenes in this movie but TLJ really takes a shit on the rest of the franchise. If you think this is bad, wait a few days till the honeymoon phase wares off like TFA.
[deleted] ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 01:00:05 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was a weird experimental Star Wars movie that shouldn't have been a part of the main saga.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 01:01:13 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
how was it experimental? i have no interest in seeing it so just curious.
[deleted] ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 01:25:52 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
a lot of creative decisions and trope subverting that were risky, but ultimately pointless and a failure.
And it's not even politically charged "why's-the-stormtrooper-black-and-why's-the-lead-a-girl" type stuff. It's just... straight up not that good of a movie.
This movie is proof positive that fans love to hate things. If people are Star Wars fans and hated both TFA and TLJ I really think there is no modern Star Wars movie that could be made that would make them happy.
I really didn't like TFA much, but TLJ retroactively made me care more about it and now I think I'm on board for this new trilogy. Am I turning to the fanboy light side?
Lol maybe. I donโt donโt know about you but I was finally ready for something different. These OG characters are old. Let the whole concept die. Smoke is a vehicle to make a supremely interesting Kylo Ren. Thatโs good enough for me.
What I hated about this is that in the first movie Rey never ever mentions anything about wanting to know who her parents are. She only wants to wait for them so they come back for her.
I was 100% convinced the movie would roll credits the second Kylo said fire
marcins ยท 93 points ยท Posted at 11:49:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought it was going to be Luke walking out through the base door, into the sunset.
Jay-Em ยท 52 points ยท Posted at 14:56:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I was convinced we'd get the classic closing shot of characters against a background, this time with Luke facing up to the First Order. Relieved it didn't finish there.
unsilviu ยท 44 points ยท Posted at 18:58:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The way the red sand blew up, it looked like gore.
kievrob ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 23:17:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'd guess they came up with this planet having red sand underneath the salt specifically for this scene
Ep8Script ยท 36 points ยท Posted at 00:15:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And to show that Luke left no footprints on the ground.
DrSmersh ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 05:59:30 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
GOD DAMN
m0h1tL ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:59:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah a lot of surprises. There were moments that I predicted would happen ended up not happening, and things I predicted from not happening happens. In other words, what I just wrote is a sequel to the happening.
I was really hoping he showed off some Jedi mastery and force pushed AT-ATs into each other. The Clone Wars mini series has really made the jedis seem so underwhelming in the movies.
That scene was the biggest M. Night Shyamalan twist. Such a let down.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 01:21:35 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hardly.
We'd been shown that projection across star systems was possible all movie long. It makes far less sense that Luke just happens to know where the Resistance is and flies a x wing that's been under water for a decade to help out at the last second
I felt like this movie had many problems, but a key one is definitely Snoke.
Who was Snoke? It was never revealed, and I doubt that in IX someone will take a moment to monologue about his backstory. He's a complete non-entity who serves only to further Kylo's role, and yet he was initially set up as a main antagonist.
But worse than the anti-climax surrounding his death is the fact that he has no backstory, literally NOTHING. He appears out of nowhere and goes into nothingness - even a throwaway character deserves more than that.
How did he become Supreme Leader? Was he old or just scarred as fuck? We will never know - it'll probably just be a gap in lore for all moviegoers, unless you're willing to read supplemental material like books or comics, which is where all this will probably end up being explained. He's no longer relevant to the story in any way, does anyone really believe IX will dedicate any time to his background?
Why was Snoke's face so messed up? How did he become Supreme Leader? Does the First Order like electing Sith Lords for its leaders? Who the fuck WAS HE, the dude was powerful as FUCK?!
One day, someone will probably watch the Sequel Trilogy and think, 'Oh, there's Snoke. No idea what his deal is, really. He's just Snoke?'
Palpatine also came out of nowhere during the OT, you say? It's even simpler than that, he was simply a Sith and the leader of the Empire, throughout all 3 original movies. No more knowledge was really required, he looked old and dressed like a Sith, that was all there was to it.
Palpatine's nebulous background worked because during the OT we didn't really have anything to work with - now, with all the lore of the Prequel Trilogy and TV series, it's much harder to accept someone as immensely powerful as Snoke materializing out of thin air with zero explanation. There are 6 films preceding the Sequel Trilogy, can we stop pretending that it's a completely blank slate?
And even though Palpatine didn't even need it, the guy even got a whole trilogy about his rise to power. Really doubt ol' Snoke will get one of those.
The world-building in the Sequel Trilogy has truly been abysmal so far.
(Let's also not forget how Snoke's ravaged corpse was played for laughs with Hux - fucking hell.)
it's much harder to accept someone as immensely powerful as Snoke materializing out of thin air with zero explanation
Honestly we've got a galaxy with sextillions of beings in it. The idea of a superpowerful Sith Lord coming from out of nowhere makes way more sense than having him be connected to events or people we're already familiar with. I like it, makes the galaxy feel bigger.
Once again, the refusal to acknowledge exactly whatโs happening in the galaxy hurts this film. SURELY some systems would be slightly ticked off that the First Order destroyed the Republic capital. Why canโt we have anything beyond Empire vs Rebels (which really makes the Original Trilogy feel pointless)?
yeah, what the fuck were the alliance/republic doing for 30 years? they won the war. that an "offshoot" of the empire got enough men, munitions, and a planet-sized death star bigger than the last one. and the "resistance" - what are they still resisting? they were operating in hostile territory with secret support by the republic. well again how did the first order get sovereign territory, and with their attack on republic homeworlds there should be nothing less than a full war effort
30 years of literal (EU) and figurative (in-universe) history in star wars mythos pooped down the drain.
the best star wars media is still knights of the old republic
camzabob ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 01:09:16 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ok, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, seriously, look at my history on the /r/Starwars sub. Everyone there is praising the film for being so bold and taking brave new directions, when all I feel is, "Oh, it's just Rebels vs Evil government again, I was expecting some development on the good government." and "Oh, Kylo's evil and Rey's good, guess we'll get their big showdown in the next movie." We could've explored a more dynamic, political situation between the FO and the New Republic. We could've explored Rey and Kylo officially going against their masters and harnessing both the light and dark sides of the force, tip toeing the line together. Imagine a story about Rey and Kylo, where they both decide to abolish the Sith and Jedi. Kylo teaches Rey about the dark side of the force and Rey teaches Kylo about the light side of the force. Not only that but them both struggling to resist the temptations of each side. I don't really know how the light side would tempt them, but picture a scene at the end of Episode 9... Rey and Kylo are together and have been going on a journey with each other, learning about the balance of the force together and teaching each other. Rey has pulled Kylo from the dark a few times throughout the film. At the end of the film, Rey and Kylo are fighting something, Rey begins to really tap into the dark side of the force, full of rage and hatred towards this enemy. Think Luke at the end of ROTJ, but x10. She almost kills the enemy, but in comes Kylo, pulling her back to the light and calming her, after a whole film (Hell, a whole trilogy) of him being the one who loses his temper. Then have him pull aside Rey and send her away. Finally ending with him killing the enemy peacefully. Not out of rage, but not doing the whole, good guys don't kill, thing. While I doubt they'd use my plot, I still think that would be a really interesting story, Rey and Kylo tip toeing the line together, relying on each other.
Minscota ยท 209 points ยท Posted at 12:56:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lucas did that and people got pissed. Every attempt at expanding the universe is almost always met with hate, but I agree with you this was my least favorite and its far too small in scope for a starwars movie.
[deleted] ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 13:45:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
The Clones Wars show is loved and that expands the universe like the prequels may have been trying to. But then again that scene when the rebel signal for help and no one answers does show that maybe people don't want to get involved in endless war
Minscota ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 13:48:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I will give you that. I was talking more about the movies. The clone wars was great. I also didnt think the prequels were awful.
Lucas had the right mindset (world building) but executed it poorly. Honestly, just have Lucas pitch you ideas and keep the good parts the man knows his shit but he doesn't have the directing chops anymore.
greeb666 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:27:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think they were as terrible as people make out either, but there are parts that are just garbage. "I have the high ground" is probably the biggest letdown I have ever experienced in cinema and I am an old fart.
The world building in the prequels is one of the parts that garners the most praise. It's the dialogue and plot that often drawers criticism. The fact that TLJ has worse dialogue and plot, no world building, but is receiving critical acclaim baffles me.
It was supposed to sound wooden as her asking Luke to join the fight wasnโt the real reason she was there. She was lying to herself and Luke every time she said it. Luke pulled the truth out of her, that she was there for herself, for answers and learn to about the force.
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 01:06:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I can't believe people are annoyed by this. They made it very obvious it was supposed to sound wooden and rehearsed
Are you for real lmao, it was no where near that bad
Ratachu ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:46:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Agree, people have a blind love for the prequels really. No line of dialogue was as cringeworthy as lines from the prequels.
Jezawan ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 23:05:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
None of the lines in TLJ were as bad as the sand line lmao. Some of Rey's lines made me cringe but that sand line is on a whole other level of awfulness.
Neknoh ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:10:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Her line was supposed to be wooden and poorly executed as it was a tool to allude to the fact that that's not really why she was there, and she knew that.
To try and learn to understand the force and her role in the whole balance of the force/events. (Another example of how they are expanding on the actual storylines of the force as sort of a metaphysical god like being, and the ideas and backgrounds of the Jedi as a religion instead of as a group of people) The new stuff is going to be different, with more emphasis on pushing the underlying theme of the force as a whole, instead of the force just being a parlor trick and kind of forced rule as to why the Jedi are so good.
Ratachu ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:46:56 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not really. I did have a problem with it, you should watch more movies to now the diference between bad and good.
they can because its pretty bad, but they should also complain about the dialogue in this as well. just criticize bad stuff and praise the good its not rocket science.
Fnhatic ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:38:18 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Huh? That was the whole point. She's trying to get Luke to come and all she can think up are stupid, shitty clichรฉs and Luke has none of it. He doesn't give a fuck about the 'you're a hero' nonsense. That's the entire reason he blows her off, because he knew that drivel wasn't why she was there. Anyone could've found him, so why her?
This has been referenced a few times. The dialogue here was supposed to be badly executed, as it was a lie, and she KNEW it was a lie, so she mechanically delivers drivel until luke forces her to tell the truth.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:59:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That scene was terrible. I put it down to the script, staging, and editing more than Daisy's acting ability.
This has been referenced a few times. The dialogue here was supposed to be badly executed, as it was a lie, and she KNEW it was a lie, so she mechanically delivers drivel until luke forces her to tell the truth.
Yes!! It sounded like she was reading the script for the first time!!
Fnhatic ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 03:39:35 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The entire point, in case you didn't notice, was that she was reading from a script. "Come save us, you're the hero, darkness, evil, badness, good guys, we need you!" It was all clichรฉ drivel and it's why Luke blew her off.
Mortos3 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:05:06 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think that was the point, she was repeating that at first, and Luke had to keep asking her 'yes, but why are you here' to get her to admit what she was really going through
Asiriya ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:09:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My take is that TLJ had impossible expectations and the only possible way to meet them was by going the TFA route and doing ESB beat for beat.
The fact that they told a new story with a new structure in the face of all that is pretty bold.
That said, I honestly left more disappointed than TFA. At least with TFA it hit the nostalgia senses. This just felt like exactly what it was โRian Johnson does Star Wars,โ and I felt the magic was gone.
I don't understand this the nostalgia his hard especially with Yoda and Luke. And they are actually doing work to establish the rules of the universe. With proving force ghosts strength through Yoda, and showing just how strong the force can actually be (compared to lackluster force power usage in older movies) with likes fucking crazy ass force projection. When they revealed that I was genuinely amazed with how they were retconning the true power of the force, instead of leaving it as a kind of guessing game on what the force can really do. And then rey shows her true latent talent with the huge pile of rocks, that Luke would've shit himself with trying to train with Yoda.
And the darker vibes actually lend a sort of emphasis on the BALANCE of the force, which is what the whole story is actually about at the core The dark side directly calls out to rey, and she answers it, while still controlling herself and not sucumbing. And how the force is threatened by such dwindling number of jedi/force sensitive light alignments, to balance the massive dark side of the order, it kicks force into overdrive and gives a complete random girl some of the strongest force powers ever seen Except for in Ben. All these things really drive home the fact that all these characters are really just tools being pushed back and forth by the force, to maintain balance. not to mention how it is showing us the actual backbone of the establishment of the RELIGION of the Jedi, instead of the group of the Jedi. In the next movie we can expect to see rey starting a branch of Jedi from scratch, really driving home the relgious aspect of the Jedi.
All in all it feels like they are really trying to establish an entire world of star wars, instead of being bound to the Skywalker legacy. if they handle it right we could get hundreds of different movies all of relevant star Wars material, ranging from plagieus, Revan, nihilus, all the way to future spinoffs with almost infinite (as of now non canon) material to draw ideas from. And Disney is also respecting the adult nature of the stories, and not dumbing down the violence, which gives good hopes for future xmen and deadpool movies made by Disney.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 21:44:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And Star Trek: Into Darkness got 7.8 over at IMDB, despite being a fucking abomination and almost destroying the Star Trek franchise. It's JJ. The media and his lapdogs cover for his fuckups. That's why.
Trikune1 ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 17:37:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I might get downvoted for saying this, but the movie industry has a political outlook that is very left wing. No one who has seen an award acceptance speech can deny this. I don't think the entertainment media or reviewers are much different than the people they cover in that respect. I mean Ghostbusters (2016) is Certified Fresh on RT. This trilogy is getting bonus points with progressive movie reviewers because of Rey and Finn.
Also, Disney has a colossal amount of money and influence. They have vastly more money than scruples, that's for sure. Look at the debacle with the LA Times. I wouldn't be surprised if they're using their money and influence for good press.
And hype. Movie reviewers are people too. Big movie fans at that. Nothing gets hyped like Star Wars movies. They get stoked to watch them like everyone else. I bet if they waited a week or 2 after watching the movie to write a review, the results wouldn't be so crazy positive.
[deleted] ยท 35 points ยท Posted at 21:00:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I consider myself a pretty big fan, not crazy, but pretty big... and, I honestly don't see the hype with the new trilogy. The world building is a mess, the jump from 6-7 is very jarring with zero explanation.
I mean, its Star Wars, so I like it... but that's about it... I don't think they have been great movies by any stretch.
It feels so disjointed, more like an alternate timeline than a sequel.
(Hate shield activate!!) I think Rogue One is the best of the 3 Disney films. Breaking away from the Skywalker saga is what really lets the Star Wars universe shine.
It seems to me though that this new trilogy (TLJ especially) is setting up for a clean breakaway from the Skywalkers, though.
The biggest shocker of the film - Rey is nobody. Not a secret Skywalker. Not the grandkid of Obi-Wan or a clone of Palpatine or any of it. She's no one special. But she's the hero of this trilogy (along with other randoms, like that slave boy at the very end).
Luke is dead. Leia's story will end in the next film. The last "Skywalker" of any real consequence is Kylo, and he's the villain of this story, with no hope of redemption.
I feel like this trilogy is a roundabout way of ending the Skywalker saga, in order to transition audiences into the post-Skywalker Era of Star Wars.
greeb666 ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 21:21:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree I loved Rogue One and I hate TFA and Last Jedi. I'd rate TFA in particular lower than the prequels even.
Mortos3 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:10:05 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree, Rogue One was great. I think it was because it had a narrower scope and clearer focus. We already knew the gist of it going in, and where the story fits in the broader Star Wars saga, so it was then just a matter of telling that story well. I think it communicated the sense of scale and dread very well with the Death Star and Vader scenes.
Rogue One just felt really disjointed to me, and I hated how cliche the dialog became (hope hope hope oh let's all hope). And that mantra from the blind temple guard too.
I really would have preferred if they kept it grounded and a bit more stark throughout the whole film. I was expecting that. Instead we got something that just felt completely rushed and felt like they started making something serious but then got scared it was too serious so they cheesed it up a bit.
[deleted] ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 21:11:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The world building is a mess, the jump from 6-7 is very jarring with zero explanation.
It's stuff like this that makes me think that every hater of the new films either didn't pay any attention, or just really isn't smart enough to follow a simple plot.
Ratachu ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 01:48:50 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How is this movie left-wing? The only think I can think is the anti-animal abuse thing, but thatโs is a strench. And Iโm a center-righ dude.
Star Wars has always been left wing, the whole style is. Sequels are even more with the diversity fest.
phasE89 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:47:17 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Holy shit how the hell could 2016 version of Ghostbusters score 73% on RT?? That's just fucked up lol
gyutop ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:06:36 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think it's the second point you had that's most influential. No sane movie critic is going to legitimately criticize the biggest Disney movie of the year. Or really any Disney movie for that matter.
The new movies are great TFA had a few pitfalls and they addressed most of them in TLJ. Tlj was emotional and gripping and really pushed the feeling of hopelessness and dread instead of "plot hole suicide mission miraculously works..again"
differences of opinions I guess but the new trilogy rates way ahead of the prequels, and I rate TLJ as one of the best films in the series (as good as the original)
i saw blade runner and thought it kinda dragged on but was an ok movie overall, not bad but not amazing. tlg is hot garbage though. i can see why mark was all but calling it for what it is, a piece of shit. he constantly said how he disagreed with what they were doing and how they were treating his character and people just disregarded him and said he was lying, without any justification for it. even after the mess that was TFA and RO they still blindly trusted disney over one of the core members of the OT. the fact people didnt even entertain the idea that mark had a point really baffled me.
Well the issue here is the OT really limits the whole guidelines and stories of the established universe of star wars. The moves Disney is making to expand the universe will feel out of sorts compared to the OT, because Disney is focusing on expanding into the whole universe which can extend across almost infinite amounts of years. The OT didn't plan in expanding into this larger universe, but to stay secluded to the Skywalker legacy, so they dumbed down a lot of the key story ideas of star wars, such as the religion behind Jedi, the overall idea of the force as an entire network of energy that actually reacts and responds to different stimuli, to maintain balance, and the actual scope and strength the light side and dark side can accomplish.
I honestly thinik BR2049 is very much overrated, yeah is visually stunning and well-acted, but apart from this is just pseudo philosophical, flat unfulfilling story. And TLJ is praised because it don't pretend to be something else than what it really is enjoyable action movie. Of course it has its own flaws, maybe even plot holes, but does other movies are do not have the same problems, I mean we all appreciate Guardians of the Galaxy, Avengers and so on. Stop treating Star Wars as something different than what it really is, a space opera, an action movie
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:01:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They are expanding into the larger universe of star wars (which is not what Lucas had in mind with the OT) so the new universe is going to feel off compared to the old one. I think they are handling it amazingly and it leaves us with the potential of being entertained by all the coolest stories of the star wars universe, on the big screen, instead of just skywalkers.
its receiving critical acclaim because they want clicks and either dont want to get blacklisted by disney/buried in bandwagon fans hate, or just love mindless marvel movie garbage which is fine but dont claim its some nuanced masterpiece. its low brow summer blockbuster mindless entertainment that you'll watch once in theatres and maybe throw on in the background or to distract your kids for a bit.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:01:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was honesty astonished by my friends' reaction when we got out of the movie to hear that they all loved it. It was by no means a bad movie, but the writing was astonishingly stilted and dull for a good third of the movie.
greeb666 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:19:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I don't get why people like this movie so much, it feels like there wasn't much point to it.
I liked that the movie seemed to be darker than the other star wars movies, people died all over the place, crazy missions had consequences and even failed. I also enjoyed Kylo Ren and the first order general a lot more in this movie than the last one. It just felt like they took some risks, while in TFA they didnยจt take any at all.
The rest of the movie was pretty dogshit tho, but its above average like a 6 or 7 out of 10.
Rey is kinda boring, Luke's death and story was confusing and turned out underwhelming, Finn and that asian girl story should have been cut from the movie.
greeb666 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:34:40 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
r1 was really dark I loved it. TFA and this one meh. The Mary Sue aspect of the main good guy characters coupled with the "lets kill of everyone from the original trilogy in meaningless ways" really gets to me.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:40:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I saw it with the critical adulation for the ANH copy that was TFA but it's apparent now: we live in the era of fake reviews.
I won't lie, I enjoyed TFA. Yes it was very safe and by-the-numbers, but I had a good time (despite being displeased with the state of the galaxy - Rebels v Empire, Han a smuggler, Luke turning his back on everyone).
TLJ has actually made me dislike TFA in retrospect.
I know this is super late in reply and all, but it's a lot like the second matrix movie when it came out. People thought it was great and asked a whole lot of questions, but when the third one came out and just threw all those questions away, it made the second one look awful in retrospect.
I just can't agree with the saying that this movie has worse dialogue and plot than the prequels. Really difficult for me to agree with. Yes, there was some poor dialogue in TLJ but all of the Luke dialogue. The Kylo-Rey dialogue, and even the ach-to dialogue was fine. The plot wasn't the greatest but it sure beats anything that the prequels put out. I especially liked the evolution of the Jedi religion although I wasn't too fond with the link it tried to make with real world religion and their perceived flaws. I enjoyed the depiction of the failures in the cycle of master-student as well here and how failure to trust by Luke was a leading mistake. Didn't enjoy Poe or the whole plot surrounding the space battles.
But yeah overall I don't see how this even comes close to being worse than prequels. I might have to give it a second watch though.
Asiriya ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 20:12:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The plot wasn't the greatest but it sure beats anything that the prequels put out.
Nothing in the prequels was as slow as this. Anakin and Padme in AotC, maybe.
I especially liked the evolution of the Jedi religion
What evolution? We didn't learn anything new?!
the depiction of the failures in the cycle of master-student as well here and how failure to trust by Luke was a leading mistake
Yes, this was the best part of the film.
Didn't enjoy Poe or the whole plot surrounding the space battles.
Yes, this is why the film is trash.
[deleted] ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 21:12:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nothing in the prequels was as slow as this
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA
Minscota ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:52:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Most movie critics get paid and favorable treatment for good reviews. It doesnt shock me at all.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:25:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
WB must be short on cash. They can't afford to pay any of them.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:25:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rey trying to convince Luke to come back was so cringey. Then you had Finn and Rose not knowing how it was possible to track through hyperspace, only to then devise a solution.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:12:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Then you had Finn and Rose not knowing how it was possible to track through hyperspace
That's literally not what happened. It was Finn saying that there's this thing, followed by Rose pointing out that well, they could do it like this, and everything snowballing from there - only for them to fail in the end anyway. Why didn't you pay attention?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:09:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The fact that TLJ has worse dialogue and plot,
If you honestly think that this is true, there's really no amount of explaining why the prequels get hated that'll make you happy.
I know why the Prequels are hated. I used to try to ignore them myself.
The Last Jedi did not have good dialogue about the plot was incredibly thin. People can complain about trade negotiations all they want, TPM has characters actually move forward. TLJ was a film in stasis.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:36:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What the fuck happened with any of the characters in TLJ? What did Rey learn on the island with Luke? The entire Resistance plot was just.. nothing. They were on the run the entire movie, holed up in a base, then on the run again.
TLJ undoes the entire OT in the most disrespectful way. The Prequels have their flaws, but at least people recognise them. The fact that this film is sitting at 94% on RT is shocking.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:35:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Even the MMO gets praised for its story (especially Agent and Warrior), it's just everything else about it which was lackluster.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:23:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He did it badly. It's not the very idea of doing it that's any damn issue. People had no problems with overlong dialogue about the state of the world in Lord of the Rings.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 13:43:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because fan boys seem to want the same old thing yet complain when something new gets a shot.
Quite the opposite for me, I thought it was one of the best films so far. It was emotional and gripping and visually pleasing, as well as showcasing that Disney won't be dumbing down the violence.
And the overall feeling of failure and desperation instead of the half baked suicide missions actually working, made it a lot more down to earth and realistic struggle. And they are setting up rey to be quite powerful.
When they revealed Luke wasn't really there, but was projecting a force ghost, and his MOVEMENTS were extraordinary using the force to guide his movement. I got super excited. they are taking the force to new levels of power with the new trilogy, and its great. The balance is off and the force is trying to correct it with a surge in tbe force. We could be in store for a fight scene of mustafarian proportions between rey and kylo, and with the added visuals and force strength, that is exciting.
The whole rose and Finn part is bullshit but that's the only part i disliked.
Jay-Em ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 14:33:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah. Palpatine schemed for decades to gain control of the galaxy, but Snoke is able to do the same out of nowhere simply by taking out the Hosnian System? How did the First Order subdue the rest of the galaxy? If you're going with that, at least give us a hint of backstory for Snoke.
Because Abrams is not creative and he's not a good enough writer to think of something different, just easier to make rebels vs empire which it literally became at the end. And we will get A New Hope every 2 years until the end of time.
Ratachu ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 13:57:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This movie was written by Rian Johnson not JJ
iigloo ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 14:39:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, but it must take what was done in TFA and run with it.
Asiriya ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 20:15:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
While I agree, I disagree. We never get the sense that the First Order is a big threat in TFA, suddenly in TLJ they're the dominant power in the galaxy. Rather than accepting the Resistance's help and rallying around, the Republic apparently splinters after the loss of a single system. First Order must have been massively damaged by losing SKB, it was what made them so dangerous, and required a lot of manpower to maintain. Losing that should have done incredible damage to them, on par with the loss of the Republic planets and fleet.
I think Rian should have made this film about Cold War conflicts. It would have been timely and made sense - two galactic superpowers wounded and recuperating.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 22:43:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, this is what I disliked the most. It just went back to empire vs rebels. If they create a new Death Star in the next movie I will lose my shit.
Asiriya ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:02:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hehehe.
I don't care anymore. Fuck Disney.
I miss George :(
Ratachu ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:50:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So? You wanted Rian to destroy everything JJ did? Do you wanted trade disputes?
Asiriya ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:16:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes. Please god, destroy all he did.
tlvrtm ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:37:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's your main takeaway from this film? Not the chaotic messy plot and odd character motivations?
This is one of the main gripes...itโs Star Wars and itโs meant to be about different planets and characters not two ships flying through random space for the whole movie and Rey following Luke fishing and milking space cows... show more of the scope of the galaxy and how itโs affected, show who the resistance โalliesโ are... just felt like very low stakes.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:32:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
On your last point, this whole movie is about getting across that they have no more allies. After the first order took out the republic the universe turned over in defeat, everyone you see on screen is the last of it all. Canto Bight was an attempt at showing a new side to star wars while also saying that the wars we've been following throughout these films mean nothing to the galaxy as a whole, it'll continue on regardless of who is leading and it doesn't bother their way of life. It's a world that's giving up on fighting. The single focus of two ships in space is a risky one and I agree I enjoy exploring the galaxy more but this is the second act, it's the lowest point and we need to see how fucked they really are before they can pull it back together in the final part of the trilogy. I think the film did that well, the ticking clock scenario helped us really understand that it was the whole of the resistance at stake. The scope of the resistence never got bigger, just tightened.
Or maybe the galaxy is completely terrified that they destroyed an entire system? Yeah, alderan was destroyed but everyone knew that wasn't all of the rebellion.
The first movie of the new trilogy already set this in motion, so I don't see how the second movie could have changed things. I'm guessing people aren't happy with the empire re-emerging, but they're also not eager to jump in front of a train that seems to be plowing through all resistance โ planets included โ and retaking the galaxy. With the events of this movie the rebels have significantly bloodied the empire's nose, so it'll spark the hope of victory and widespread resistance.
I do agree we already saw this in the previous trilogy, so repeating the same larger arc just made the achievements made in the original trilogy seem meaningless. It was a mistake to go down that road once more in such a obvious manner.
I've been coming to terms with completely letting the military tactics go in this movie. Every encounter is fundamentally flawed and almost makes it seem like the entire extent of the First Order is tailing the entire extent of the Resistance.
run400 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:34:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wasnt there some other Star Wars movies that highlighted the geopolitics of the Galaxy?
At this point the rebellion, new republic, resistance is like 10 people on the Millenium Falcon, and the empire, New Order is all standing outside that gate... Honestly the stakes don't seem very high anymore for the galaxy because both sides are tiny and incredibly stupid..
PavlikNej ยท 334 points ยท Posted at 14:55:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Can someone explain to me how is the rebellion organisation contains 100 people all around? And they have no allies. Like really? What about, I don't know, the New Republic. From what I understood from the last movie, Galaxy is ruled by Republic because, you know, Empire was defeated. And General Hax and Snoke is just small force of extremists. Who rules the Galaxy? What was the point of the Original Trilogy if 30 years later Rebellion is represented by 100 die hard fanatics?
I haven't read any of the tie-in novels, but I think the New Republic ruled over the galaxy, while the First Order were gathering strength/resources out on the fringes somewhere. The Resistance were a tiny off-shoot from the Republic who, under Leia's command, wanted to take a more direct, hands-on approach to dealing with the First Order. The Republic and it's fleet were all destroyed by Starkiller Base in The Force Awakens So... I guess no-one really rules the galaxy at the moment, because the capital, senate etc were all destroyed. The First Order intended to slide into the power gap they created.
PavlikNej ยท 73 points ยท Posted at 15:21:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Surely not all fleet was on those several planets that got destroyed. But it would be nice if the movie addressed it. Considering that the First Order suffered pretty heavy losses at the end of TFA. But somehow First Order has the most amazing tech ever but Rebellion has 3 ships and a dream.
Meeraskan ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 16:47:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In the novels its stated that Mothma and other Rebellion leaders rapidly demilitarized the Republic due to the galaxy's fear of a strong military and exhaustion from decades of war.
So it's likely that the Capital Fleet guarding Hosnian Prime was a major portion of the standing republic fleet, and likely it's senior command (not even counting the command structure that got obliterated with the planet).
Plus, it's very likely a lot of star systems were like "not another war. For god sake" and just refused to take part in anything/surrendered easily.
She dismissed 90% of the military. Maybe in Disney's world with rainbows and butterflies that never happens, but in any other semi-realistic universe she would have been instantly overthrown for such an asinine move.
Yeah, that's a pretty large number. But the galaxy had, in one lifetime, fought two galactic civil wars at the cost of trillions of lives, and seen a dictatorship rise, dominate, and fall. Planets were annihilated, cultures displaced and whole peoples wiped out.
I'd be for no massive military after that.
For an interesting comparison: Post WWII - the US demobilized nearly the same amount, about 83% of their military.
Demobilized is not the same as outright disbanded.
There are so many problems with Mothma's actions, I don't know where to start. The Republic is absolutely gigantic, and without the military it would be impossible to ensure peace on all planets. Previously, the Jedi saw to that, as warriors and diplomats, but they were wiped out. Secondly, they were aware of the remnants of the empire still remaining, disarming to such a degree leaves you defenceless against such an organized foe. Next up, suddenly your military industry stops functioning, which is very bad for the economy, not to mention, a lot of people suddenly finding themselves without a job, civvies and soldiers both. There were entire planets dedicated to building military space ships like Kuat and Mon Cala. Repurposing them all to something else would have been an impossible task. Oh, there's also the notion of the brass being unwilling to lose their cushy positions, funding and power, while probably being ideologically against the disarmament.
You are 100% correct. But you are thinking about it all too much. Disney doesn't care about story or logic. They don't think about it the way you do, sadly.
Maybe there are a few ships elsewhere (who might respond to the call for help Leia sent in TLJ) but think the implication was the fleet itself was destroyed. The First Order lost a lot on Starkiller Base but I suppose that was only part of it, Poe or Leia mentions the dreadnought ship in TLJ as though there's more than one so guess they have more than we've seen. I'd also like much more of the wider political state to be addressed in the films, there was a deleted scene or two from TFA but even they didn't add much.
the entire fleet of the new republic was destroyed, they had no idea that a laser planet was being built by the same people who had ruled the galaxy before them who also built two giant death lazers? whoever came up with this story is retarded and whoever greenlit it is braindead.
did you not read the opening crawl? it explained, in very explicit terms, that now that the Republic was destroyed in TFA, the First Order rules most of the Galaxy.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:44:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The republic at the time of TFA is not at all what it used to be back in the day, its more or less a small rag-tag group of worlds that switch the ruling planet on a certain timeframe. Most of the Galaxy is kind of independent. When Hosnian Prime was destroyed, it killed pretty much all of the political power the republic had. Now there is this (rather) small republic in a cease-fire with the First Order - and they have a SMALL splinter group of rebells calling themselves "Resistance" with no real political power (especially not past the borders of the republic). No world is going to be drawn into a conflict with the new big player (First Order) for that.
No republic, and they had allies in the outer rim. They just weren't strong allies. First order wasn't taken seriously until it was too late. Reminds you of anything?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:27:30 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Can someone explain to me how is the rebellion organisation contains 100 people all around? And they have no allies. Like really? What about, I don't know, the New Republic.
The New Republic just got destroyed in the last movie
They are escaping and are the only ones that manage to escape
After seeing the massive destruction of the New Republic, any allies they had are... Hunkering down hoping they're not next. Their distress bacon was received by multiple locations but ignored by all
Like really? What about, I don't know, the New Republic.
Did you miss where the Hosnian system was destroyed in TFA? That's where the New Republic was based. The New Republic fleet was based on Hosnian Prime when it was destroyed.
It would be like destroying Washington DC whilst all the government officials were there and then being all "wtf why isn't the government doing anything".
The New Republic was destroyed by the Starkiller Base in TFA. Remember all those planets destroyed? That was a huge blow to the resistance.
_Ardhan_ ยท 44 points ยท Posted at 17:35:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A much better way to deal with Phasma would be for her to not reappear for a while after the events of TFA, only for her to return as a bounty hunter or just to hunt down Finn for making her lower the Starkiller Base shields and having her ejected/hunted by the First Order for her betrayal, motivation being revenge.
She's just such a useless, blatantly merchandising-inspired character.
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 01:20:17 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She's just such a useless, blatantly merchandising-inspired character.
She, evil BB8, those bird creatures, those horse creatures. Half of the things were made to sell toys. Even Ewoks would be embarrassed by this.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 07:55:29 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
only for her to return as a bounty hunter or just to hunt down Finn for making her lower the Starkiller Base shields and having her ejected/hunted by the First Order for her betrayal, motivation being revenge.
This is exactly what I was hoping they'd do with her. But nope. Just so disappointing
[deleted] ยท 890 points ยท Posted at 11:49:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I hated how this movie fell to the one of the most infuriating tropes in cinema: conflict couldโve been avoided if only characters talk to each other.
If Holdo told Poe what her plan was, he wouldnโt have sent Finn and Rose to try and disable the tracker. They wouldnโt have been caught and the transport shuttles wouldnโt have been blown up. This also meant the whole Finn/Rose subplot is completely unnecessary.
Itโs annoying when this trope shows up but the fact that it did in a Star Wars movie really pissed me off for some reason.
roblobly ยท 85 points ยท Posted at 13:24:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
even luke not telling he goes ot to stall them, i mean WTF
yeah, but i think they get a pass for that one because it highlighted Poe's arc (dont be an idiot and rush into things just to blow them up, sometimes its wise to run away)
roblobly ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 01:04:44 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
yes, but retreating already finished his arc kinda.
[deleted] ยท 279 points ยท Posted at 12:11:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yep. Not to mention Poe deserved a firing squad for outright mutiny like that.
That would be plain idiotic for the resistance to do. Poe is clearly extremely popular among the resistance pilots. Killing him is how you start a civil war, and that's literally the last thing they needed.
[deleted] ยท 170 points ยท Posted at 14:48:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
shrug, the Resistance is down to like 10 people by the end of the movie anyway.
[deleted] ยท 73 points ยท Posted at 17:11:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Could've been 200 if they opened with the kamikaze move.
What's up with that? It seems that most efficient strategy would be to just strap hyperdrives and engines to large hunks of scrap and just warp them at an enemy the first moment you see them. Seems more effective than shooting them in any case.
[deleted] ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 22:04:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Right, the idea that such a powerful strategy was unthinkable to both parties that assumedly are veterans of countless space battles breaks my immersion.
What's even the point of building big ships or having shields if you can hyperdrive bomb half a fleet effortlessly.
frvwfr2 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 03:15:46 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This world is clearly lacking in military strategists
The bomber ships at the beginning? Seriously, your slow ass ships have to be DIRECTLY above a target? What?
Also the "dreadnought" was another in a long line of shitty imperial designs that goes up like a firecracker if you shoot it's weak spot for massive damage.
elbenji ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:04:19 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah...try that with a ship cruiser. Same concept Right?
They never got there. Just like Luke never finished his training with Yoda. This movie seems to be giving a lot of nods to the original trilogy without resorting to outright aping it like TFA did.
[deleted] ยท 54 points ยท Posted at 18:48:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When I saw dat X-Wing under water I was like "They gonna do a montage, yes?"
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:50:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This film should have been two films. And the last one should have been three.
honestly, the rey and luke scenes on the island were unbearable. Mary sue rey doesnt need training anyways shes fantastic at it all. Also, her acting was so wooden. This wasn't luke skywalker. Despite finn and rose subplot being pointless at least the actors have charisma to make the most of the scenes
Daisy Ridley seemed to have way less energy in this movie compared to Force Awakens. In some scenes on the island it really felt like she didn't want to be there.
Foxion7 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:05:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What the force is
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:12:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Foxion7 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:57:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Then the third is "the jedi are vain"
[deleted] ยท 194 points ยท Posted at 13:37:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't have a problem with this. The whole point there was that Poe should have trusted in the judgement of his superior, and that he didn't need to be involved. The issue doesn't come from not knowing her plan, it comes from misjudging her as a leader and trusting in his own guns ho attitudes too much.
[deleted] ยท 59 points ยท Posted at 15:42:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yep. They were acting on their own there. Poe clearly wanted to be a leader and I think he was a bit resentful to Holdo.
You can actually see his chest pump up when they are going to announce the new General when Leia is out of comission, and then look away when Holdo is announced. People are rightfully salty about a lot of stuff in this movie, but there is something to be said about Poe's arc.
Asiriya ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 19:58:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's nothing to be said, it was executed awfully. It could have been done in five fucking minutes, not forty.
I'm not saying that it was executed well, but it is one of the lesser problems of this movie imo.
Asiriya ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 20:46:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's all related. Just like SKB, all of the Resistance bullshit should have been cut out (if it's representative of their best ideas), or completely changed to something that's... good. Intriguing. Worthy of taking up half the film.
I agree completely, but it kept me more intriuged than the whole Canto Bight sequence (not that that is saying much but at least there was some sort of conflict happening) I think if they cut most of that stuff and shuffled some things around on the Resistance plot, it would've been more effective as a whole. Poe's arc itself just got bogged down with lots of other things that were happening on and around that ship.
But she never really gives him any reason to trust her. She has no justifiable reason to not just tell him whatโs going on.
eXclurel ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:39:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah as soon as he asks what the plan is she goes "weren't you demoted?". He then asks directly if there is a plan and she doesn't answer him. All of that could be avoided if she just said "I have a plan".
Doesn't even need to say what it is. Just, "I have a plan, and it's need-to-know". At least then, if Poe still went off on his own, it would be on him.
[deleted] ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 17:39:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She was a general who even Poe knew, with major victories behind her, and immediate successor to Leia. What did he have to be mistrustful about?
f1mxli ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 18:15:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Her communication skills? All she did was stare, looked like a very incompetent leader, and kept the escape plan a secret. Why do that to your comrades? I even thought she was going to be revealed as a mole and was feeding the First Order with the location of the Resistance ships
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 18:18:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She wasn't there to answer a pilots questions, especially a pilot who had just gotten a bunch of people killed despite orders from a superior. She was their leader - she had info on a need to know basis, and Poe didn't deserve the info. He felt entitled to it, but he had done nothing to make her trust him.
f1mxli ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 19:00:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Poe didn't deserve the info
Maybe, but the rest of the Resistance did. If I was there I'd have supported Poe because he was the only one acting like he was trying to do something.
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 19:07:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They were following orders, did you notice how the mutiny was only Poe and his friends? Everyone else was going with the plan. That was the point of Poe's story - having to learn to listen, and work as a team, and not just go in guns blazing when he doesn't like how something is going.
f1mxli ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 19:18:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought blindly following orders was just a First Order thing. Poe can't listen to what's not being said.
eXclurel ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 19:41:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I am with you on this one. Rebellion was built on trust, not just following orders without question. Without that the rebellion is just another side of a pointless war.
Asiriya ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:00:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But apparently everyone else on the ship knew there was a plan, or they'd rightfully have been asking why the fuck they were just chugging along for hours, losing colleagues and being shot at.
And honestly, it would have made more sense for them to unload the transports immediately and jump the cruisers away. The First Order would have followed and left the ships...
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:26:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, everyone who was in the know followed orders. And Poe could have found that out had he not been so busy with his head up his cockpit.
Asiriya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:37:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's a shit explanation, it's not fulfilling while watching the film and the tone is completely wrong.
But really, why was Poe not in the know...? He's a former commander who is known for carrying out successful attacks and saving the day. He wants to know if there's anything he can do, it doesn't make sense to dismiss him out of hand. If he's frustrated once you tell him the plan then you handle it.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:50:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Former commander who disobeyed orders and got people killed. He was not trustworthy, and Holdo couldn't rely on a person that refused to follow orders at a critical moment.
It's like you've never been in a situation where someone has to discipline you for your behavior.
Asiriya ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:58:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Former commander who disobeyed orders and got people killed
It's fucking bad writing is what it is. The Hux phone call? Jesus fuck, I couldn't believe what I was watching.
Why was Poe out there at all. He clearly had a plan, he knew what he wanted to attack, had the whole Resistance armed and ready, are you telling me he did that without anyone else knowing what was happening? Even if Poe ignored her, she could have ordered the rest of the fleet not to engage. I can't remember the conversation now admittedly, but Leia's the authority and could have ended the attack if she wanted to.
Why did the Star Destroyers not engage at any point during the film? They had five of them, they did nothing. They could have destroyed the Cruiser while the Dreadnought targeted the planet. They should have ensured that no one got away, but of course no TIEs bothered to chase Poe back. If they had done that, acted rationally, then no one should have survived. And that makes sense, because at no point do they have more than 20 fighters, and going against Star Destroyers with hundreds of TIEs should be suicide.
The whole thing is just so stupid.
It's like you've never been in a situation where someone has to discipline you for your behavior.
Not recently. But if I had a high ranking colleague wanting to help and asking what's going on I think I would tell him and make sure he's on board.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:50:10 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Hahaha, now you're just going in circles cause you want to hate on the film, despite having no more reasons for it. Everything you're complaining about was addressed in the film, you either didn't pay attention, or didn't understand what you were watching.
I can't remember the conversation now admittedly, but Leia's the authority and could have ended the attack if she wanted to.
She did tell them to not engage, but Poe closed off communications and took his fleet with him. It's the chain of command - his people thought they could trust him.
Why not just announce it to everyone. Seems like an awful idea to have that plan on need to know when the whole crew is getting desperate. Give the people hope, goddamn it. Specially if they have no reason to trust you.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 04:48:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
You're under the assumption that they don't have a reason to trust Holdo, but that's just you. The film explicitly stated that she's a trusted leader.
And it's also made clear that the other captains were in on the plan - you know, the people that need to know. The film explicitly stated that the support vessels had sent their survivors to the main ship before they ran out of fuel, and it was that which allowed Holdo to figure out that they only targeted the main vessels, not the escape pods.
You know show don't tell. The movie does nothing for us to trust Holdo. Whatever plot you're imagining where the other captains are in on the plan isn't in the movie.
Besides, what sort of leader let's everyone on board go through an existential crisis instead of reassuring them there's a plan? Just make a reassuring speech. Give a viable reason why you're not telling everyone, including the cleaning crew, what the plan is!
What's the point of scaring everyone to desperation for no good reason?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 10:40:47 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Whatever plot you're imagining where the other captains are in on the plan isn't in the movie.
There's a scene where the second transport ship is destroyed where the captain tells Holdo (us) point blank: good luck rebels, hope this works.
Just make a reassuring speech.
Literally the first scene she had was this.
Either you paid no attention, refused to do so, or just are too stupid to follow along. But whatever the reason, you've missed like half the film and are now pretending that it's the movies fault.
The first scene was a reassuring speech? I didn't feel any reassurance. She was bland and not at all charismatic. And didn't reassure anyone they had a plan and explain why she wouldn't share.
And if the other captains know, why didn't she tell the captain most likely to rebel. He seems like the one person you absolutely HAD to tell or he'd jeopardize everything. Either tell him or lock him away. Don't live someone obviously discontent running around in desperation. WTF.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 11:18:50 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Other captains of the ships - so higher ranking than Poe. And they did try to lock him away, hence Leia shooting him after the mutiny. It was all about Poe being an entitled shit who didn't realize that he was over his head on this one. Watch the damn movie next time.
Why didn't they tell Poe? Or the cleaning crew? Or ANYONE for that matter. Is ''the reason you're all not dead'' the sort of plan that should be need to know? I don't think it is, and I can't have sympathy for any organization that thinks it is.
It's the sort of situation where giving a bullshit plan that doesn't exist is a good choice, even if there was NO plan.
Of course the people who knew the plan trusted the plan. They knew it!
I'm not seeing your point. I saw the movie. I felt like Holdo acted like a shitty captain to whom respecting the chain of command is worth more than the mission.
Of course Poe acted like an entitled piss of shit, but the job of the Admiral of a ship is to deal with entitled pisses of shit. It is also to deal with desperate people that think they're being shot at in the middle of god fuck nowhere with no planets in sight, incapable of running away through light speed.
I don't see how Poe being an entitled shit removes from the fact Holdo was a shitty Admiral and the whole plot wouldn't exist if she didn't try to hide the plan from everyone for no good reason.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:55:47 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why didn't they tell Poe? Or the cleaning crew? Or ANYONE for that matter.
Of course the people who knew the plan trusted the plan. They knew it!
Why would they tell anyone but the people immediately involved? That is the other commanders and the people who need to coordinate things. This is an asinine complaint - no military leader will tell things to a grunt simply because the grunt is feeling anxious.
Of course Poe acted like an entitled piss of shit, but the job of the Admiral of a ship is to deal with entitled pisses of shit. It is also to deal with desperate people that think they're being shot at in the middle of god fuck nowhere with no planets in sight, incapable of running away through light speed.
And she did, she told Poe to stay away and not get involved. Even Leia, the moment she wakes up, shoots the shit out of Poe with a stun gun because she knew that he was in the wrong. The entire movie is built around him learning that he's wrong.
So the whole movie is about blindly trusting your superiors? No wonder I disliked it. I wouldn't blindly trust anyone with my life. That's stupid.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:17:14 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No... and now you're being wilfully obtuse. Poe's storyline was trusting that others might know things better than you, and not being the number one guy running around making choices for others all the time. It required him to trust in a person he didn't know, but Leia did.
The other storylines were about tearing down the establishment and blind authority. Poe was there to balance it out to show that even people with good intentions are misguided and can be wrong.
Dude, I get what the movie is trying to do. I just think it fails at it. If we're supposed to get that sort of character arch we need to see him disagree with the plan or be unwilling to listen. Not be told to shut up and mind their station.
This movie felt like "when middle managers get promoted to leadership: a horror story" It's like everyone in command has an hard on about following the line of command instead of matching their words to the person speaking them to get the most out of it.
But even admitting the story can work as is, with Poe needing to blindly trust his leaders (in that situation I wouldn't. I would defect in a heart beat or kill myself trying to do something rather than keep sailing to certain doom doing nothing. Only a really high degree of personal trust in someone could have me sit still and do nothing. Most people didn't have that with the vice admiral. ) but admitting that it is the correct thing to do to sit still... This plot could only work if we then had sad shots of Poe as he sees the escape pods getting destroyed and he blames himself. Crying. Acknowledging he was wrong. Then we could've the retreat be an emotional moment where he's still blaming himself and Finn goes through with his suicide, providing actual strong and emotional character arcs.
What happened had the payoff of a three year old getting slapped for stealing his sister's toy. And then he randomly changed without any emotional build up.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:41:08 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If we're supposed to get that sort of character arch we need to see him disagree with the plan or be unwilling to listen.
Hmm... I watched the movie. Through out the movie I would have proceeded EXACTLY as Poe did. So it's hard to have the arc be about how he did the wrong choice when I don't agree it was the wrong choice with the information he had (or we had).
That can still work. Well of Ascension we all follow the protagonists as they do things that eventually turn out to be VERY VERY wrong. We all agreed with them at the time. So it's a special kind of sad.
This movie is the same, we follow everyone in an arch, I'd do exactly the same as they did. And then they fail... and we get a tiny slap and no time to be sad. It just feels pointless.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:59:37 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Clearly you didn't watch the film very well, because every single plot point you've said so far has been wrong, out of order, or just misremembered entirely. You've got entire sequences either out of order, or in a way that didn't happen in the first place.
Fuck yourself. I didn't misremember. I just have a different definition of ''explanation'' and ''speech'' than you have.
And it's all irrelevant. I think the movie fails because in the damn movie I, and everyone I know who watched the movie, thought Holdo was being a dick and Poe was in the right. Up until the moment where the movie pulls the rug from under you and the mission fails.
And if that's the case, the whole movie could be saved if Holdo hadn't seemed to everyone (including Poe) like a dick. Not being a dick has a tendency to not cause mutinies. That simple.
The exact order of events barely matters when I'm arguing about how the movie made me feel about the damn characters.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:24:40 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you can't follow a simple logical plot, of course it matters to the overall arc. Just because your friends are dense too doesn't help.
Dude... Just stop. I'm not complaining the plot isn't logical at all. I'm complaining the plot isn't emotionally congruent. The plot is a huge try fail cycle that doesn't end in complete defeat. The people we follow throughout the movie aren't responsible for any of the small victories yet the movie isn't a tragedy. I think that sucks and makes the movie very unsatisfying.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:58:08 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rey defeats Kylo, resists Snoke, saved the resistance, and becomes master of her own fate.
Finn stops running and accepts his place within the rebellion.
Poe grows up and learns to trust others and work within the team, eventually with Leia's blessing leading the resistance.
Luke learns to leave his past behind and shows the true mastery of the force, attaining peace and purpose.
Rey defeats Kylo? They tied and then the ship blew up.
Everything else you mentioned are things that happened to the characters, not actions they took that led to victory. And Luke is hardly a protagonist in this movie. I mean Rey, Poe, Finn and Rose didn't win! They didn't defeat anyone or save the day using their own powers.
Now you're the one being obtuse.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:33:20 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So by your definition Empire Strikes Back is a failure too, then? Right? And how is Rey literally saving the resistance not an action that leads to victory, even if shortlived? How is Finn not making a choice that affects his entire future a win as a character? It's like you can't even comprehend anything beyond simplistic win or lose states.
Yes. Empire strikes back is a failure arc. Yet it ends with a somber mood that matches what happened in the movie.
Finn doesn't stop. The choice is made for him. That takes away from the moment. Yes, Rey lifting the rocks is a victory, and it was quite a good moment, but it was Rey lifting some rocks. Not the most interesting thing ever.
I just think the heroes didn't win their happy ending.
What? "That could work" were his words when Leia wakes up and explains the plan to him. In the movie he goes up to the new admiral hoping to get in on the plan and she shoots him down in the most disrespectful way ever. Admonishing him for no reason.
An interim Admiral needs to quickly regain respect from the ground crews that the actual admiral build through years of service. I think she did a piss poor job at that with Poe. Yes, he'd been demoted. Yes she was in her right to do that. It also caused her plan to fail after the crew tried to do things their own way.
If she'd been more cordial and said something like "Hey Poe, I hear of your accomplishments. You've been demoted so I need to respect Leia's possible last act as admiral, but you should know we do have a plan. If you could try to keep the ground crew hopeful it would be of great help. Unfortunately the plan is need to know at the moment, but please trust us. And keep the pilots ready for a possible confrontation."
She is responsible for what Poe is as much as Poe himself. After all, she was his Admiral.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 12:54:30 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What? "That could work" were his words when Leia wakes up and explains the plan to him. In the movie he goes up to the new admiral hoping to get in on the plan and she shoots him down in the most disrespectful way ever. Admonishing him for no reason.
Literally not what happens. Leia wakes up when he's not there, and when he finds out from Holdo what the plan is - he calls her a coward and traitor, and then initiates the mutiny.
When Leia wakes up, she promptly shoots and stuns Poe.
When he wakes up, Leia tells him what the actual plan his, and why it should work. And then he agrees.
When he finds out that she's fuelling the escape pods (hint: finds OUT! he isn't explained shit) he isn't explained the whole rationale of the plan, not even at gun point did Holdo try to explain why she thought it would work. It feels to him like a desperate escape, abandoning the only ship they have.
There is a contrast with his reaction when the whole plan is explained to him by Leia, including how they figured out the ships couldn't be detected.
tjsr ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:54:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Poe got them killed? Oh rubbish, the outcome could have been heaps different had Leia stuck to the plan rather than arguing about strategy and half-asssing a bombing run allowing Hux and co heaps more time to get a squadron of fighters in to space and react. Half the fleet could have been preserved if they had stuck to the plan and not hesitated.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:25:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, Poe got them killed by assaulting the ship head on. It was made clear that the original plan was to wipe out the forward cannons, which he did, and then escape. He got greedy, in his own words, to take down a dreadnought.
tjsr ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:18:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The entire purpose of wiping out the cannons was so that the bombers could take a run at it without getting shot down.
If there was no intent on taking out the dreadnaught, why bother taking out the cannons?
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 22:30:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They literally say in the film: the cannons are gone, now we make a run for it.
The anti-air cannons were gone. Not the big anti-capitol ship cannons.
aulum ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:05:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did Holdo have the information on how they were being tracked? If not she might think there is a spy amongst them and doesn't speak the plan? I can't recall if she knew or not..
I don't remember it ever being stated that she suspected a traitor on board, which I would also consider too important to leave for the audience to assume.
aulum ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:06:43 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I actually like it. It gives Poe actual characterization from the absolute nothing he was in Force Awakens. In this movie he's overconfident, cocky and ultra paranoid.
[deleted] ยท 53 points ยท Posted at 13:02:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The thing is, if there had been open communication among them, we would have had Poe, Finn, Rose, Holdo and Leia all just sitting on a ship doing nothing for 2/3 of the movie.
IMO they should have done something different than just a 'ship outrunning a different ship' for the whole chase sequence that actually involves the main characters without a completely unnecessary plot line like the one they went with.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:15:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Like Looper
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:31:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously though - How many times in your own life and history have decisions been made by people who didn't communicate effectively. People who were emotional or exhausted or simply did not like the guy they should have talked to.
I am not excusing it in this film. Poe should face a firing squad as he is in a military organization and directly led a mutiny that caused many deaths.
People not talking to each other is a trope for a reason and can be done effectively. It's often a part of very well crafted movies and moves the story nicely.
Alas, my hatred for Disney - the cringy, girly-girl, creepy, princess breeders and mom killers - buying something regarded by me as being primarily masculine such as Star Wars - awesome space adventures - is something that will never fade.
It is an unpardonable sin, and the fact that they weren't able to rise to my very high standards, absolute heresy.
Once Mickey Mouse inevitably goes into the public domain, I will make and sell Mickey-brand sex toys.
I swear that I'll outlive this bastard cult. I will visit Disney World on the day of its closing, and taunt Disney Fans.
Their tears shall be like sweet ambrosia.
I WILL have my revenge. Then, and ONLY then, will I die satisfied.
This hate is a flame so pure, so focused, that the Devil himself recoils in fear.
Hellfire is like a soothing balm when compared to the fires of my hate.
Holdo and Poe had no reason to share their plans with each other, though. I thought both of them had good reasons and good plans that were satisfying to see unfold
War is chaotic, things shouldn't be as neat as a narrative
I loved the movie and loved both Holdo and Poe, I don't agree that either was stupid.
Holdo had no reason to share with Poe, he's the kind of hothead who compromises the nature of her plan. He'd been refusing orders out of personal preference that day itself
Poe had no reason to tell Holda, because she was adamantly against him undermining her or taking action
Because then the actions of characters start to serve the plot, when (imo) the plot should serve as a platform for the characters to shine and entertain us.
Yeah, it would have been real easy to come up with a plot that made Finn and Roseโs mission necessary, and not just a waste of time.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:43:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
we would have had Poe, Finn, Rose, Holdo and Leia all just sitting on a ship doing nothing for 2/3 of the movie.
Says you, just because that is the most "reasonable" alternative, doesn't mean that the writers couldn't have come up with a more meaningful series of events. Finn's storyine felt like a total waste of time to me. All of it. Poe's education plot to become a good leader by letting go of fantasies of beign a Hero and knowing when to run was interesting, but infuriating and poorly executed imo.
Asiriya ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:02:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Bit harsh, he says this too...:
IMO they should have done something different than just a 'ship outrunning a different ship'
Tinymatt ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:53:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Personally I thought a search for a spy on the ship was what was going to happen after the opening crawl. A real hard look into the resistance introducing various resistance fighters.
The thing is, if there had been open communication among them, we would have had Poe, Finn, Rose, Holdo and Leia all just sitting on a ship doing nothing for 2/3 of the movie.
This dumb 'slow chase' thing was only necessary because they needed to slow the plot down to give time for the Finn and Rose subplot.
nianp ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:42:36 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not to mention that Holdo had zero reason to explain things to Poe. He was a recently demoted captain. Even if he was still a commander, in what military force ever does a General need to explain herself to her subordinates?
Poe was recently demoted, and Holdo didn't trust him.
That being said, it would have been a lot smoother if they had dropped a line about needing to prevent panic, or that they were suspecting a spy. Just give us some reason why Holdo was so secretive, and it would have been fine.
Plus Leia has just gone into a coma and sheโs just been put in charge of this already in progress escape. I canโt imagine the stress she would have been facing
Yeah, that really bothered me too. It was a good, sensible plan that sharing with the bridge crew at least would have given them some hope, that thing they kept saying rebellion was built on. But instead, the majority of the resistance had to die because Holdo/Leia wanted to teach Poe a lesson about 'valuing life' and trusting your superior officer, ignoring that most rebellions are literally born out of not blindly accepting authority.
I get it was done for plot reasons, but fuck it bothered me. Other than that, I liked it more than TFA.
aulum ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:02:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought that was the whole point. It's a trope and they turned it around on us the audience and showed us that the super special mission (which usually would work out eventually, somehow) completely fails. It's part Poe's arc it's part lore building (casino, warfare, rich folk). Yes Finn and Rose should have died,but that part is moviemaking. Is it not?
How is this a common movie trope? There are so few movies in which one of the main characters actually fuck up because he acts smarter. In all they are right and turn out to be heroes
If Holdo told Poe what her plan was, he wouldnโt have sent Finn and Rose to try and disable the tracker.
Poe's whole thing is that he does what he wants, no matter what the orders are. Highlighted by him ignoring Leia at the start and doing the bombing run on the Dreadnought, resulting in the Resistance losing all their bombers and a lot of their fighters.
Holdo telling him the plan wouldn't have likely stopped him, because he's still want to disappear and do his own thing.
tjsr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:50:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Holdo appeared to have about as much ability to command a fleet as as if a schoolteacher had been elevated in to that position through circumstances.
And in terms of likeability, she was the Admiral Cain of Star Wars.
The reason it pisses you off is because it's a sign of BAD FILMMAKING
Asiriya ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:56:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
the fact that it did in a Star Wars movie really pissed me off for some reason
Because people should be bringing their A game, throwing out twenty ideas, being told to go off and find fifty more, and result in a film whose B plot isn't Hux chasing a ship for three days. FFS, half of his lines were "Are they dead yet?"
NO, unfortunately...
I've just finished the third Stormlight Archive book, and the one thing you can't call them is uncreative. Tropes are constantly being subverted, things are consistently revealed on time when it makes sense and not withheld. The result is a plot that bobs along at a satisfying pace.
As you said, by not sharing the plan they strung out a plot that didn't have anywhere to go and it brings down the entire film.
I thought it was a real mixed bag. Some of the most beautiful shots in any Star Wars film, and some of the most frustrating character moments too. I feel flat, and that's not the feeling I want from a Star Wars film.
That ending though.... oof. I really wish they'd cut that very final scene completely and ended it earlier, or at least switched the order of those scenes around. I know what Rian was reaching for but it felt like the wrong note to end on.
I wasn't a big fan of TFA, but after seeing it I was excited about where the story would go next. Now having seen TLJ... I can't say the same for IX. Watching it again in a few days so hopefully it'll improve on 2nd viewing now I know what's in store.
[deleted] ยท 68 points ยท Posted at 23:24:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It just isn't a very good film. We all wanted it to be great, ESB and all that, but it's not. The script is bad. The humour falls flat. It's too long. Major plot developments make no sense, and certain subplots needn't be there at all. Sometimes it looks great, but more often it looks plastic.
I honestly think its shortcomings will become more apparent with repeated viewings.
This is how everyone in my group of friends felt after the movie.
dev1359 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:53:46 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I pretty much mostly agree with this. People can say what they want about TFA, but I loved the movie and it gave me this feeling of excitement I had walking out of the theater that I had when I watched the originals for the first time as a kid. I sadly can't say the same about this one...it just felt sort of generic in a lot of regards, even though they took the plot in a different direction.
There's definitely some stuff to like about it though, I'm just struggling with whether I feel the pros outweigh the cons or vice versa.
At this point, Star Wars is dead for me. The Last Joke was just too much after EA skullfucked Battlefront and now this movie just takes a giant dump on the battered body of Star Wars.
"I will not be Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi" - Luke Skywalker
aslost3 ยท 99 points ยท Posted at 15:11:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What are we, some kinda Star Wars Episode 8: The Last Jedi?
szamur ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 15:49:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Some straight like you, giant stick up his ass, all of a sudden at age, what, 60, he is just gonna Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi?
caliban- ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:38:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's a cultural problem, that's what it is - your average American male is stuck in a perpetual state of adolescence, you know, Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:03:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So be it. You will be the Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi.
This was the most subversive star wars film I've watched and I don't think the studio wanted that and I think that's the root problem.
For every interesting plot point and subversion of expectations. There's a shitty marvel style quip or crowbarred in chracter/sub-plot.
A good example of subversion is how the movie uses a star wars trope were familiar with and turns it on its head. For example the hux/poe interaction at the start. we're e familiar with the imperial officer being snoddy and talking down to the rebels with great elaborate speeches it was cool to see that played with by having a poe take the piss out of him it developed both their characters and did something new as opposed to tfa that felt like it was just a repeat. Another example was the poe/Finn plan failing and them having to just flee. Usually in star wars a big dumb this just might work if we take down that one specific tractor beam, shield generator etc plan is how things get done. But by having the characters fail and have to go with the original plan felt interesting and surprising and gives gravity to these kind of plans in the future, I hope. However that's one of the only interesting thing about the rebels sub-plot the rest of that is just packed with unesacary characters. fuck the casino part would have been way more interesting if Finn and poe had went instead two characters with actual chemistry. That would have made the casino more of an interesting interactions with the environment and it would have made poe's learning not to be so brash arc hit harder cause he would have been more directly responsible for the rebel ships being destroyed when there on snokes ship. The rogue type chracter turning out to be a rogue and not a thief witg a heart of gold was a good subversion as well. The one thing I cannot fault it for was it kept me guessing at least. However that's wasted on an otherwise boring Rebel sub-plot.
fuck the casino part would have been way more interesting if Finn and poe had went instead two characters with actual chemistry.
Goddamn I didn't realise how much I'd have liked to see Finn and Poe : space bros, performing an undercover search for a hacker in a strange alien casino.
f1mxli ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 18:26:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's a shitty marvel style quip or crowbarred in chracter/sub-plot.
BB-8 rescuing Finn and Rose was very endearing, until they cut to Finn and Rose just looking at each other like deers on the highway for comedic effect. Couldn't they just do a quick thumbs up and run like normal humanoid beings in a doomed spaceship?
EDIT: Oops. Said Poe instead of Finn.
BigSnoke ยท 360 points ยท Posted at 13:37:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You know what the biggest problem is with the ST? It doesn't feel like a continuation of the saga. Instead they've just reset everything and started again.
Say what you will about the Prequels, but they actually set up the story for the OT, so I'm really not sure what exact point you are trying to make
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 04:18:31 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The dialogue and acting in the prequels is awful but my god the world building and expansion of the Star Wars universe is so great. These new films feel like the characters are all living in a vacuum separate from the rest of the rich galaxy we got in the prequels.
I cant help but think that this is a result of countless of internet fanboys screaming at how bad the prequels were in every measure for years and years and years.
I think the point is that The Last Jedi pretty much undid most of the what The Force Awakens set up, so now we're back at pretty much zero. I'm not excited for the next movie cause there's no set up for it really. No mysteries that need to be solved, or big confrontations being built towards.
They're just using the new trilogy to get rid of the old cast one movie at a time, while wiping out all the achievements their characters did in the original trilogy. How this movie seems to be setting things up, we should end close to how the original trilogy did, but with a different cast. We can then do another rebels/empire war in around 8 years when the next main saga trilogy pops up.
And I don't understand any of it. What is the point in Ep 1-6 now?
None of what was accomplished in the films means anything now.
The Empire was destroyed, but is now seemingly being outdone by the First Order that would have a tiny fraction of the power/resources that the Empire had.
Sideous was the driving force behind most the bad in the galaxy for years. He is killed, then Snoke come from nowhere and has similar if not greater success. Now he's dead and we may never find out how or why.
[deleted] ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 23:51:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The EU was a more satisfying continuation
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 01:50:42 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Say what you want about the EU's problems but it actually built on things instead of just tearing them down.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 02:58:41 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Snoke dosen't have control over the entire Galaxy like Sidious, the First Order is more like ISIS while the Empire is the USSR
We know that but the movies haven't shown that. If all you've seen in the films then there is no way you could know. If anything Snoke looks better because starkiller base was better than anything the Empire had
LDKCP ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 20:15:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
WWII was 20 years after the end of WWI, Germany was defeated and able to take over half of Europe in that amount of time. The arms dealers in this film will sell equipment to anyone, so it just needed someone with resources. Snoke wore a silk gown, just a rich powerful force user stepping into the power vacuum.
Snoke come from nowhere and has similar if not greater success.
he did not have greater success
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:52:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because they took this direction I view the sequels as optional canon
FanEu7 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 01:50:17 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
More like lazy fanfiction..
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:31:16 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And I don't understand any of it. What is the point in Ep 1-6 now?
Since when does life come in a nice continuous flow forward. 20 years after WW1 we had WW2, before we had many wars too as we have had earlier. The fact we fought a second World War doesn't mean the victory of The Triple Entente any less meaningful
Well the issue is more that after the Empire was destroyed. The New Republic decided having a giant army that could be co-opted again was a bad idea.
When Sidious took over there was a large number of areas that could join together to form the resistance.
So it seems like the First Order is sweeping the galaxy that was hard for sidious to conquer. When the reality is, that in the 25+ years since Episode 6 the republic has grown far weaker, and was then wiped out by starkiller base.
At this point it's like a new bully taking over when the seniors graduate at the end of the year. He didn't take over because he's better just because there is a reduction in the competition.
And few of the remaining students were putting in effort to stop the ascension of a new bully
It straight up feels like nothing was accomplished in Return of the Jedi.
The First Order is seemingly much better equiped than the Empire which doesn't make sense as the Empire controled more, and thus should have had more money etc.
Snoke came in a rebuilt everything (how we don't know) and then the First Order takes out the Republic.
The Galaxy would have been better off if Luke had just let the Empire do its thing.
baktiar77 ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 16:09:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Instead of just one big Death Star, now thereโs 3 different variations of a Death Star (the blaster cannon, a tracker, and that massive canon laser thing at the beginning).
I mean I enjoy the space battles and the Empireโs innovative technology, but surely thereโs more ways to fight a war and win.
Asiriya ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 00:25:18 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just, enough of the super weapons. It's more interesting seeing characters in conflict with each other.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:37:50 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I had no problem with the dreadnought in this movie. It was dealt with quite well in my opinion and actually backfired because they lost all of their bombers destroying the dreadnought when they could've done with them later. It also served to show Poes recklessness and distrust for leadership which would later cause problems. It also went to show how much Poe was respected amongst the pilots who would later mutiny for him
It also wasn't a planet killer or anything. Just a bigger star destroyer, not one of a kind. No overarching plot about killing it, Poe just saw an opportunity and went for it
Asiriya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:22:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The dreadnought was better than the "miniturised Death Star tech" which was just a hollow CGI distraction in the end, it at least provoked conflict.
Oh no another super weapon has appeared. We much hatch a daring plan to destroy THIS one!
bergamaut ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 19:47:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Worse than that, they've completely mishandled the heroes from the OT.
"Hey Han, Luke, and Leia: everything you did in the OT was pointless and you'll unceremoniously fade away with only Ben to carry on the Skywalker legacy."
_Ardhan_ ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:21:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's absolutely one of the problems with the new saga films: the universe has never been this tiny before. We learn absolutely NOTHING about the galaxy itself and the people and creatures in it.
because disney is dead creatively and has always made money off the backs of more talented creators. theyre just pimping out franchises for as much as they can and will move on when theyre no longer profitable. and they will keep the ips locked up so nobody can use them and create good stories or do anything creatively because that would take money away from disney.
THIS. This is my problem with the films in this new trilogy. They stand horribly on their own. There is little to no character development. Everything is so empty.
FanEu7 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:47:19 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sadly true. They could have gone in many interesting directions after the ending of ROTJ..instead they chose to rehash it all over again with some minor differences.
This whole conflict between the Resistance (Rebels 2.0) and First Order (Empire 2.0) is just lazy. And of course the Jedi are basically extinct again too. Like wtf was even the point of the OT.
Seems like Disney is too afraid to move to new stuff.Hell even with the Anthology movies they are milking the same old characters etc.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:57:54 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I disagree, Kylo is not Vader, and Snoke is obviously not palpatine. This film has flaws but thats not one of them, although it does rip off moments from the OT beat for beat (But not in the same way as TFA)
Parts of this film were just utterly, jaw-droppingly good. The light speed ram, Kylo, Luke and Reyโs arc, how tropes got utterly deconstructed...
And yet I feel unsatisfied. Itโs weird. It felt like two movies conflicting with each other. I appreciated that the Poe/Finn/Rose arc was a rare story of impulsive good guys making things infinitely worse....but it just didnโt feel satisfying for some reason. Humor often got in the way. Tension would build up and then naw joke.
Thereโs enough amazingness in this film that I like it, but some editing and pacing would have made it one I love.
. It felt like two movies conflicting with each other
Luke, Kylo and Rey stuff is good or great. Other stuff is mediocre or bad. Annoys me how they could not bring it up to par.
banrab ยท 349 points ยท Posted at 17:52:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Maybe I'm a dummy but I felt like the Force just had no rules in this film. Connecting people's minds, seeing the future, Princess Leia can suddenly use the force to fucking Jesus herself through space. Then Luke just kinda pops into non existence like a fart in the wind.
It used to be simple, move objects with your mind, slight physics abilities and if you're really evil and strong you can make lightning or whatever. I don't feel like there were any rules or explanations in place for wtf happens other than NAH ITS JUST THE FORCE LOL
PS BB-8 is pushing his luck, I liked him in TFA but seriously piloting a walker and just saving the day whenever he was needed was stupid and contrived
EDIT: ducking --> fucking
[deleted] ยท 42 points ยท Posted at 21:53:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
banrab ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 11:27:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
that.s true about seeing the future but Palpatine and Yoda are arguably the most powerful in the force in their respective Dark and Light sides so those guys seeing the future seems fair and works. Rey is just too powerful too quickly for my liking. I did like that both her and Kylo saw the other turning (aka coming to their side) which was realised during the throne room fight.
From each of there perspectives the other one had turned to be on there side and that's what they were seeing in their premonitions.
Well it's not like we've seen force lighting before :)
caliban- ยท 36 points ยท Posted at 18:04:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yep, this is turning into the Walking Dead. Terrible writing, stupid decisions, and complete deviations to characters personalities in order to "further the plot". Except they didn't even do that.
The critics who have given this 93% on Rotten Tomatoes have lost their minds.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:42:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
RavenK92 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 23:02:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yoda learned from Qui-Gonn how to come back from beyond the grave and become one with the Force. Obi-Wan said flat out that becoming one with the Force makes you a lot more powerful. Yoda was already one of the most powerful Jedi ever when alive. Manipulating and throwing lightning has been an established Force ability for decades.
So how is one of the most powerful Jedi ever, coming back in an even further powered up state, using an ability he has shown before to greater power levels breaking any rules or just happening because it's convenient?
YAYSAY ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:36:46 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Yeah that was ridiculous. If he can do that then where was he to save Han? Why doesn't Anakin just go and interfere with Kylo.
If they're so powerful from the grave Jedi may as well just all kill themselves since they're technically most powerful in death.
Popping into existence as a force ghost is already a force ability. Why would you be surprised that the strongest jedi maybe ever can summon a lightning from beyond the grave? He can already take some kind of form and talk to people. That's also manipulation of their physical world. Lightning is just a little more badass.
Hmmm, I donโt remember yoda giving Luke a list of the forces abilities and being like โthatโs everything the force can doโ. The force was left mysterious and now it was expanded as it CONNECTS ALL BEINGS.
[deleted] ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 20:06:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
rey1295 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 09:44:58 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think a cool way they could've done Leia force bushitery was if they would've shown luke sensing her sister dying and shown him trying to voodoo her back to safety over her merry poppins bullshit
This complaint is confusing to me. I thought the Force never had any rules & that was kind of the whole point in the OT. It's used to trick minds, make lightning, float stuff, sense each other from afar, see the future. It's not really a consistent set of powers in the OT, they just keep doing more things and it seems like it's beyond any individual. This was actually one of the main things I thought prequels screwed up, they made the Force into basically just telekinesis & evil people could do lightning because that's scary. The force being used in interesting new ways in this movie is one of the things I like the most about it. It rejects the archetype of force-user = acrobatic magician and instead makes it feel like a truly universal power that literally connects people and can be used by anyone in varying ways.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 22:57:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
All of those force powers are established in the OT.
_Ishmael ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:00:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree about the force. It felt like such an Ex Machina.Really? Jedi can create a force avatar of themselves that is somehow physical and yet not physical depending on the circumstance? REALLY!?
RavenK92 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:03:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes but it apparently kills them. Not so Deus ex Machina when the cost is that high
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:58:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wow...fuck this series anymore what kind of crap writing is that
The Force has always been a fucking mess. Just look at assorted games and comics. Jedi/Sith can use it to move like in the Matrix, become effectively immortal and regenerate their bodies and organs, or sap life directly from creatures or planets. It's like the sonic screwdriver from Dr Who, it's a cheat device of sorts, though not quite as egregious.
[deleted] ยท 104 points ยท Posted at 22:43:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't like it very much.
Dialogue felt clunky and weird sometimes, and just poorly done.
Some of the acting in the beginning felt the same way.
The scene with Maz was just stupid. It felt like a video game cut scene.
Carrie Fisher's acting felt kind of stiff.
The Carrie Poppins flying through space part was almost cringeworthy.
The actual events and world of the movie felt very small. Everything was contained within a small area.
The almost political nature of some of the messages/themes in the movie felt a little too heavy handed.
And when Admiral Holdo said "Godspeed" to the escaping rebels.....since when is an Earthly type of religion present in the Star Wars universe?
[deleted] ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 22:48:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:18:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ah true
[deleted] ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 01:05:13 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You can see the movie had a lot of problems when almost no one is commenting about that awful Maz scene. It was so fucking bad.
It's almost like they had already paid Lupita so they needed to put here somewhere in the movie.
SSF2_OW ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 04:53:01 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was horrific, just so so horrific. It didn't need to exist, it broke the internal logic of the film (we need more power for long range communication, here let me use my space watch for long range communication), it was irredeemably bad. Just everything about it was bad. That's all I can say
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 03:48:12 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That scene is one that stood out the most to me.
It was just awfully done.
And if they were having a conversation through some device that projects video, why was the video constantly changing perspective? I didn't understand that.
There are definitely other phrases that could be used.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:49:52 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If they didn't overuse the phrase in the movie, she could have said "May the force be with you."
But that would have made the phrase used for the billionth time in the movie.
edit: she to the.
DNamor ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:27:34 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I imagine it's like LotR.
What the characters are saying isn't what they're literally saying, it's what's been translated to us. They didn't speak American English a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, they spoke (IIRC) Republic Common, we're just having it translated to us.
That said, LotR does this explicitly, since the books are outright stated to be from Tolkein's translation of the Red Book of Westmarch, and he even included his translation notes (seriously, Tolkein was a freaking mad genius, in a great way).
lol at leia sending out request for back up and entire galaxy being like "read 11.36pm"
wigum211 ยท 38 points ยท Posted at 00:48:34 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My first thought was, "there must be some conspiracy with the reviews for this film" . For a movie this poor, I cannot fathom why the reviews are so incredibly positive.
I wrote a long message detailing all I didn't think worked, but it's nothing no one has put in this thread already.
It strangely felt the polar opposite of Rogue One in every way.
SSF2_OW ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 01:59:03 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"10/10, best film ever, greater than that lame old original trilogy"
- Totally legitimate review site
I mean c'mon, you can like the film even though it is terrible but 10/10, better than Empire? Those reviews are obviously garbage. You cannot in honesty give out a review like that. It's just so fake
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 01:22:37 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They don't want to be blacklisted
duffking ยท 789 points ยท Posted at 11:18:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This going to cause some heated discussions, I think. If nothing else, that was not playing it safe at all. I'm not sure what I make of it, to be honest.
Frankly, I had a growing suspicion during the first third of the movie that I was going to hate it. A lot of the action felt really stilted, and the humour felt slapdash and inappopriate, like the film just wasn't taking anything seriously at all. It culminates in that Leia moment which was was so astonished misjudged in its execution I couldn't believe what I was seeing. The idea of using the force to survive is fine, but the Mary Poppins esque delivery took me right out of the film.
Dotted throughout the rest of the first act, especially during the scenes on ahch-to with Rey and Luke I repeatedly thought, "I'm sorry, but the film is trying to have a serious moment here - can you stop making fucking jokes for 10 seconds, please?" It robs so many scenes in the first act of the drama they should have.
From that rubbish Leia moment, it started to win me back. A lot. It has some really spectacular stuff in it, and it's really daring considering it's the 8th bloody movie in the franchise. For large stretches it becomes something very different to anything else in the franchise. And there are many scenes that are just fantastic in their execution - the throne room lightsaber duel was excellent especially. And many of the shots during the Crait speeder sequence were incredible to watch. The gambling planet stuff was a little iffy in some ways but at the same time felt they delivered fun in a way that the prequels tried to at times but didn't. The film is a real roller coaster of twists and turns. Though it caused a rollercoaster of emotions for me, some of which it could have done without.
It's also frustrating in how it deals with some of the things that were left more open from TFA. Two things in particular that it felt JJ left for whoever came next to build and expand upon seem needlessly handwaved to me. I enjoyed that Rey is just a nobody. In fact taken with the end, it seems that's the theme of the film - you don't need to be a skywalker or anyone else to become someone. Lineage just doesn't matter. But to do it at the same time as just offing Snoke right as I was becoming interested in the character felt cheap to me. What was the point of him?
But on the other hand, I really liked the origin for Kylo. The idea that Luke fucked up and created a monster when he could have and should have seen another way is far better than what I expected. And it makes sense - Luke may have mastered the force, but he was always brash and impulsive.
I'm really quite conflicted by it. Which in many ways is a good thing. But in some ways less so. I'm not sure where it goes from here. I'm kind of troubled by the protrayal of Hux and Kylo. Given the events of the film, it feels a bit like both sides are to some extent governed by total idiots. I don't buy either of them as leaders of a huge military force.
10/10 for trying to take it somewhere new and different, but I think the execution was patchy and I'm not sure what to make of it overall. But I liked it. I think. I'll need to see it again. But it feels good to be challenged by a Star Wars movie.
I think snoke was just used to show kylos growth, from someone he tormented to being tricked and able to mask his intentions. snoke had no idea was able to bridge Kylo and Rey together but Kylo was able to decieve him. In the end it was inevitable, you piss off Kylo that much he was gonna kill him eventually
jurwell ยท 41 points ยท Posted at 15:02:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
100%
Snoke was essentially just a plot device to get Kylo to the position of power. His backstory will probably be revealed Darth Plagueis-style in a novel that adds a lot to the trilogy without really changing anything. Even though itโs information that to a hardcore fan is essential, itโs not the story that is being told on-screen.
His death also made perfect sense, in that his hubris and arrogance prevented him from seeing his apprentice making his move for power, as with all โRule Of Twoโ Sith deaths. Kylo isnโt more powerful than Snoke, but Snokeโs power had blinded him, and Kylo took advantage. I do expect him to take a significant leap in power from now until the next film to reflect his deepening mental conflict and his position at the top of the First Order hierarchy. Rey will obviously follow suit. But that is more speculation for another time.
Some people, me included tend to not like when characters are just obvious plot devices. You could have a bit more of an arc to him in this movie and we'd be more invested when he dies. Have us know his plans. What he wants. Have us hate or love him. Instead all we ever were about Snoke was puzzled, and then they killed a character who we were still puzzled about.
It feels sloppy as fuck.
jurwell ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:43:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
One of the themes of Reyโs arc is that you can be a nobody and still rise to the top/make a difference/โbe somebodyโ or however you want to phrase it. Who he is or where he came from doesnโt matter, what does matter is that heโs the big evil head honcho who trained Kylo. Palpatine had literally zero backstory when he appeared in Empire, and it doesnโt matter in that case either, heโs just The Emperor and thatโs it. Empire = Bad and therefore Emperor = Biggest Bad. Same with Snoke.
tegix62 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 02:43:16 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You're explaining it well, the "a nobody can be somebody" theme is a good point too, but I still feel weird about Snoke having zero backstory
I mean, in Palpatine's case, we watched his rise to power in the prequels. We know he had a huuuuge amount of time to plan, whereas there's about 30 years between ROTJ and TFA, and this new massively powerful Sith has arisen, complete with a full army and an apprentice, and we know nothing else about him.
Rey's a single character we're watching the rise of, whereas Snoke is an established leading force in this new era
Perhaps that's just where the tone of the originals and the prequels differ, and we expect this new trilogy to latch on to some familiar tone, idk
jurwell ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:04:06 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you take each of the three trilogies as standalone entities in the order they were released then it makes much more sense. The original trilogy gives no context for the Emperor being in power, he just is. The prequel trilogy then goes back and fills in the blank. The new trilogy is itโs own entity despite following the same story and characters. That blank just hasnโt been filled for us yet.
Of course. I thought thus was the best star wars movie ever made until the final third of the movie went completely down the drain.
All the big moments happen to characters that weren't build up enough for them, and all the characters we follow fail their mission. Which would be fine if this was a tragedy in tone, but they get saved by the non focus characters every time, making me feel like their entire plot was just a huge waste of my time.
The scene where Rose rams Finn's ship is like a microcosm of how fucking unsatisfying everything in the movie felt.
Of course I only know the ending sucked in retrospect, after watching the ending, but I think it's legitimate that a screwed up conclusion would affect how you see the whole.
From a lore point of view, the Rule of Two also brings with it an idea that for a Sith to 'complete' their training, they have to kill their master and take their place. Probably not explicitly mentioned in canon any more but when Snoke called for Kylo to complete his training at the end of TFA and then again when calling for Rey to be executed in TLJ, I was thinking of this. Snoke's days were always numbered in order for Kylo to rise...just a shame we couldn't see the real extent of his threat beforehand.
Darth Vader offered Padme to help him kill the emperor and then later asked Luke to join him and kill the emperor. In the tossed EU Sidious killed plageuis. I can't wait to see if kylo gains an apprentice
Kinda like Vader in the EU. You can only get away with so much with Vader and Kylo before they take you down. Difference is Vader knew he could never take Sidious out because of his armour. Kylo on the otherhand...
Pretty much. If I think "oh it's a shame X didn't happen" I remember how cliche that would be and how shocked I was in the cinema.
It's about time these movies forge their own path instead of dwelling on the past. And that was practically the whole point of the movie.
Choekaas ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 12:48:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree. And it's a good thing the theme of a sacrifice happened in this installment. It would've been to weird to start having it in The Force Awakens.
Here we get Yoda's comments about the old text books. The many times characters actively went out to sacrifice themselves. It's another step from Episode 7, which heavily focused on telling it would be Star Wars as we remembered it. The marketing was all about it. "Practical effects! Real sets! Shooting on film!" And Episode 8 takes a lot from that, but moves it towards something new. And that is what it ALSO was marketed as. "It's bold! It's surprising!" which everyone said. John Williams even acknowledges it in the score for this film, that heavily develops the newer themes (Rey's theme, Kylo Ren's theme, the Resistance theme and that new one for Rose).
How wasn't it cliched and predictable? Of course Rey wasn't going to join Kylo, of course every time a main character is about to die something blows up or catches them. The only thing that was a "surprise" was Kylo not killing Luke... so he could die on his own a few seconds later.
That was the only "surprise" as you put it? Are you sure about that?
So before kylo was shown to be moving the lightsaber towards Snoke you totally predicted that the big baddie that we had yet to learn anything about would be killed half way through the second movie of a trilogy? Or that after all the set up in episode 7 and part of 8 that Finn and Rey care for each other that a new character would come in and kiss Finn at the end creating a potential love triangle? Or that after all the work in 7 to find Luke and the desperate situation the Rebellion is in that Luke would refuse to train Rey? Or before the show Laura Dern's character prepping for light speed you totally guessed that she was gonna ram the bad guys at light speed? Or that Luke was actually projecting an image of himself from half a galaxy away?
This movie isn't perfect and love it or hate it, the one thing you can't say about this movie is that it was predictable and still expect anyone here to take you seriously.
Or that THE plan of getting a codebreaker and sneak up in a ship will not be part of the climax of the movie and it will totally fail. Or that the plan of Poe Dameron was also going to fail.
I didn't really think they mistreated him though. I thought the way he was made complete sense for the story and his arc ended in a satisfying way.
ribblle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:23:22 on December 28, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Luke just wasn't the kind of guy to abandon the galaxy coz of his bad feels.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:56:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm fine with people liking the challenging style, but I think there is a large group of people who liked Star Wars for the fantasy, mythology, and adventure. The classic heroes journey with some predictable tropes. I think it's completely fine for light, predictable adventures. I don't need all of my movies striving to be challenging or high art. Not saying The Last Jedi is a bad movie, there are just so many other great movies that challenge you, I don't know I needed it from a Star Wars movie. It would be like turning Indiana Jones into some gritty action movie. The lightness and adventure are why Indiana Jones films are loved. If they wanted to go in a different direction I wish they had just omitted the OT characters. It feels weird that this trilogy is so hyped and bankable precisely because they brought back loved OT characters, to then kind of turn on that and essentially have a message of "nothing was special, anyone can be a hero". I'll be interested to see how much it hurts the box office of the third movie if the backlash grows.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:26:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But it feels bad to watch a mentally challenged Star Wars movie.
fixed that for you.
noobule ยท 199 points ยท Posted at 12:17:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Snoke was a bad character. I liked him in this, but they killed him because he was pointless. TFA was sooooo lazy in many respects, and half of this movie is a deliberate reaction to that. Last Jedi knows that the audience knows that the overall trilogy arc will be the same as the originals , but it sternly refuses to follow all the same plot beats as well.
Fakayana ยท 139 points ยท Posted at 13:44:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's a lot of things where TLJ subverts/"fixes" TLA (for better or worse):
Rey is supposedly a Mary Sue? Done. Now she gets wrecked by Snoke, bleeds, and turns out to be nobody special.
The good guys always win and there's no risk involved? Enjoy seeing 90% of the Resistance getting wiped out. (Though plot armor still exists for main characters I suppose).
"The Resistance" is such a stupid lazy name? Yeah we're just going to call them Rebels every now and then.
And so on.
Ratachu ยท 58 points ยท Posted at 13:56:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Fnhatic ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:33:16 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
wtf is RFJ
dev1359 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:48:40 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Real Fucking Jedi
Fnhatic ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:32:31 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The 'Hoth' scene at the end aside, it's the second part of a three-parter, traditional filmmaking rules generally require the second act to hit a few key elements - the hero grows, the conflict grows, and you prepare for the climax.
It just didnโt build on TFAโs work a lot though. Finn inched forward at a snails pace, Poe got some eureka moment to be a leader, and Rey was good. Theyโre a small rebellion on the run still. Kylo Ren just subverted Snoak like no big deal (even though he wants to let everything die?) and is still a dick, though we saw he has a glimmer of light.
When the beginning scroll ended with the bit about evacuating their base as the First Order approached I was worried about it being a complete rehash. Thankfully it was not. I was surprised that neither Kylo or Rey lost a hand during the throne room scene.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:16:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Sempere ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:51:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
ends the same.
...bullshit.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:31:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Rey is supposedly a Mary Sue? Done. Now she gets wrecked by Snoke, bleeds, and turns out to be nobody special.
Umm, she gets relt by snoke for like 10 seconds and gets told that her parents were beggars, she still doesnt have any faults and is still the last good Jedi to save the jedi order and the galaxy. She also killed all those gaurds, still with no training whatsoever.
The only "fix" here was her seekkng the dark force without restraint
The good guys always win and there's no risk involved? Enjoy seeing 90% of the Resistance getting wiped out. (Though plot armor still exists for main characters I suppose).
Bull, good guys habe been dying ever since Obi Wan
"The Resistance" is such a stupid lazy name? Yeah we're just going to call them Rebels every now and then
In response to the beating the guards with 0 training. People seem to forget that TFA establishes that Rey knows how to handle herself in a fight, sheโs been an orphan on a scavenging planet for 10+ years. She learned to adapt and we see her fight competently throughout the film, obviously not to a remarkable standard.
I wouldnโt say she was particularly impressive in the big fight. She took out two of the dudes, Kylo took the rest. He was fighting 2 at once while she was getting choked out by one with two daggers.
Sheโs not this amazing crazily good fighter, sheโs competent and knows how to survive
Those dudes were Snokeโs personal guard and probably some of the best fighters in the galaxy. Given even Kylo struggled with them she should have been smoked by one guy if she was merely competent. Not to mention Reyโs shown force strength on par with Kylo (a Skywalker) and her lifting all those rocks at the end rivals what the most powerful force users could do, like Luke/Yoda lifting the X-wing or Sidious/Yoda hurling Senate pods at each other. All the other top tier Force users were Skywalkers or had decades or centuries of training whereas Rey literally had 2 lessons from Luke and is already on par with Kylo. Sheโs clearly OP for no reason other than Disney needing their strong female lead.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:20:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ma-rey sue
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:56:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She almost died from those guards, here inexperience clearly showed. She is also not the last Jedi.
Snoke's death, lack of the Knights of Ren, and Luke's immediate rejection of the saber all add to this feeling. I'm not sure how I feel about it yet. As much as I disagreed with some of JJ's contributions, I feel that Rian could have at least made an effort to continue some threads. But he totally didn't and made the movie that he wanted to make; regardless of what JJ or fans or whoever wanted. It was ballsy and I respect that, I think it'll just take some time for me to get used to it.
aulum ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:10:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If we change nothing but remove plot armor...would've the movie be better? Who'd be alive still? Haha I love this idea :)
k0mbine ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:17:55 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think Reyโs Mary Sueness could also be explained by her force bond with Kylo. Maybe she got some runoff force puss from Kylo.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:22:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The good guys always win and there's no risk involved? Enjoy seeing 90% of the Resistance getting wiped out. (Though plot armor still exists for main characters I suppose).
Grunts aren't good guys, just main characters
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:58:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
lisward ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:43:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well I thought that too until they made him look fucking awesome with his golden silk robe, sick ass throne room and throne, and red Guards. I got HUGE Goldblum Thor Ragnarok vibes and was super interested.
On the other hand your point i agree with. In the end they just blitzed past JJ Abrams probable plans for his trilogy, Rey trying to turn Kylo, Kylo turning and betraying Snoke cuz of the good in him, and turned it into one scene.
Iโm just worried about how Kylo would perform as a villain now, because heโs definitely not powerful enough. What I LOVED about Snoke was how menacing his presence was, vs Sidious who just shot lightning bolts and got his ass kicked by Windu. Snoke also has clear motivations, he wants to rule the galaxy, but does what does Kylo Ren want? Does he really go from trying to find himself to Hahaha Iโm evil now I wanna rule everything?
TFA was sooooo lazy in many respects, and half of this movie is a deliberate reaction to that.
Of all things, The Last Jedi made TFA look worse. I'm coming straight off of seeing TLJ, so my thoughts aren't straight yet (I enjoyed most of it, no doubt), but while watching it I couldn't help looking back at TFA with even more contempt. I've only seen TFA twice and I don't really want to see it again, whereas I expect I'll give TLJ a few more runs, especially considering it has a handful of very rewatchable scenes. TLJ really brought us to new directions, subverting expectations too.
Sounds like Disney hires some WB DCEU movie execs to manage Star Wars
Asiriya ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 19:26:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I respect your opinion, I would only call the film challenging in the sense that it was tough to sit through. It was literally two films, an intriguing, relatively creative twist on RotJ that I enjoyed (though the jokes were I'll judged, this isn't and shouldn't be a Marvel film). The other was a ridiculous, Starkiller base-esque heist that was given no love: not enough time, or passion, or creativity, to deserve anywhere near the amount of time it was given.
There were ten different ways to resolve the Resistance storyline, none of them taken.
I was really looking forward to the casino scenes. I was hoping we'd get political, actually begin to get a sense of the state of the galaxy. I was imagining our heroes actually interacting with the galactic elites, Leia there to steer their way through a Casino Royale-esque encounter with members of the First Order.
The seat of the Republic is destroyed, but it consists of hundreds of planets. Losing a system wouldn't destroy it, and losing Starkiller base has greatly wounded the First Order. Neither can prevail so they've settled into an uneasy peace, a Cold war with both sides trying to gather support.
The result is Snoke and Ren meeting with Leia and pals, schmoozing, with Luke and Rey eventually turning up as counterbalances to Snokes hand.
Snoke and Luke were the best parts of this film, and they should have been given equal time.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:02:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
IMO this movie was just as lazy as TFA in terms of the plot, just in a different way. TFA shamelessly ripped off ANH. TLJ did the same, but just twisted the payoff. It recreated moments from ESB and RotJ but just changed their ending.
For instance: what if instead of staying loyal at first Vader overthrew the emperor like he was planning?
Instead of making a valiant and successful fight against the walkers on hoth what if the rebels mostly failed?
Instead of being a good teacher what if the Yoda role (Skywalker now) chose not to really teach the person who came to him?
Instead of telling the truth to try and convince the young jedi to join him, what if Vader (now Ben) lies?
Instead of being a scoundrel with a heart of gold, what if the smuggler is just in it for himself?
Instead of being a wise mentor as a force ghost, what if the jedi master that unexpectedly comes back is just a dick?
You could do that with every movie. Stop kidding yourself
chuiboy ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:13:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Is that really how they do it? One person (JJ Abrams) writes and directs the first movie and leaves it open for the next person (Rian Johnson)? The movies tell me yes, that is how they do it, but my brain is saying, "that is such a bad way to approach a trilogy that there is no way it is true especially considering how big Star Wars is."
Leafs17 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:48:34 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is one of the biggest(and scariest) questions I have.
If nothing else, that was not playing it safe at all.
This. Playing it safe would have been making Rey a Skywalker going dark, Snoke being some occult Sith lord and Kylo defecting to the light side.
For large stretches it becomes something very different to anything else in the franchise.
And it should be. I don't want to see the same themes repeated for the 50th time.
Fanboys are the fucking worst with their convoluted theories and inability to accept it when the narrative doesn't copy the EU or the OT.
duffking ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 14:48:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
To add, I do really like the idea of both Rey and Kylo essentially rejecting their respective Jedi/Sith traditions and instead attempting to find their own path and with the help of the other. But because they have polar-opposite ideas for how to achieve that, they come into conflict. It feels fresh, rather than plain good versus evil again.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:57:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'd love for them to grow "together" while also being opponents. Share the struggle of the fight against the other side of the force, only to end up on a grey spectrum in the end.
rey going dark and kylo defecting would definitely not have been playing it safe and would have been a lot more risky than people think. building up your hero and villain only to have them switch sides halfway through will either make or break your franchise, especially if its not done right.
I have no idea what that guy is smoking because having Rey go dark is in no way safe from a writing standpoint. Watching that scene, I was actually thinking "I hope she accepts" simply because I didn't expect her to; I'd've had no idea where the story would go from there (which is exciting), and it would be nice to be surprised. Key word: "surprised". I knew she'd say no. How the fuck is having your beloved hero go the villain route "safe"
After Kylo says to Rey to get rid of all the old: "the jedi, the sith, the rebels..." I was kind of waiting for Rey to counteroffer with "and the First Order" which would've been interesting. Unfortunately it would've made it still an acceptable position for Kylo and acceptation would've killed most of the plot drive.
ribblle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:33:37 on December 28, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I guess he means it's the obvious twist.
Drama79 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:12:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know about you guys, but I cannot wait for a GIF of Luke drinking green space-titty milk.
unsilviu ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:56:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
One with him throwing the lightsaber would be glorious.
Mortos3 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:34:44 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That was certainly a weird scene, came out of nowhere
nashist ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 12:21:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Man, thank you for the long reply, you put it very well. Don't quite agree with everything you said, especially the casino scene. It felt so out of place, took me off the movie and made me go "wtf" way more than once.
And there were more issues. I get what you're saying about being challenged and taking risks with a Star Wars movie, and some paid off, others didn't. Rey's parents? Totally paid off, the idea of a nobody being strong with the Force is amazing and opens many doors. Snoke's death? Paid off, should have been better executed becase it became very predictable, since they showed Kylo's hand and the lightsabre moving. If it was a total surprise I would have enjoyed it more.
But the vice-admiral for example, definitely did NOT pay off. She had an AMAZING send off, but everything leading to that felt so unecessary, it was all just we would think she was bad and then we had a mini plot-twist.
Unfortunately a lot of the film's mistakes came from that need of subplots and small twists.
Overall, I REALLY enjoyed the film's main story and basically hated the rest (except the vice-admiral sacrifice, but that could have happened anyway, and in an even more endearing way if they didn't try to sway us).
ender23 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:40:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The vice admiral, we kept viewing her from Poeโs point of view, which is why you feel that way. Poe, who lost all the bombers (how do bombs drop in zero g anyways.), and Poe, the reason why the first order found out about the drop ships. The Poe story of becoming a leader wasnโt actually done that well. But heโs a kick ass fly boy so we love him. But vice admiral was always a kick ass resistance figure, but we never gave her a fair shot
nashist ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 12:58:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And that's what made it not work. You don't feel for her and her sacrifice, because she just appeared, was mean for a while, and then suddenly she wants to save everyone.
Even if we could only see it through Poe's character, she should always trust him because, even though he was demoted, he was always a hero, best pilot, and blew up the fucking Star Killer Base, so a little "Poe we are heading for that planet and we'll hold off there" would have been nice
ender23 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:32:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
yeah a lot of stuff they did to try and develope poe didn't really work or make that much sense.
nashist ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:33:18 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly!
Fnhatic ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 03:30:34 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Edit out all the 'comedy' bits and it would gain a lot.
For fuck's sake, Poe is standing in front of an exploding hangar, hundreds of people are killed, and all their fighters destroyed, and here's BB-8 comically flying through the air squealing.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:53:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was totally uninterested by the entire plot with Rey and luke on the island because they don't have a single meaningful shared experience, Luke mopes around as rey pines for his attention, and every now and then we are doled out bits of exposition as a reward for bearing with the tedium of it all. Rey's characterisation felt incredibly weak also, I didn't find myself empathising with, or caring about her reaction to Luke's actions at all.
The unraveling of Luke and Ben's history, and the cave scene were the only interesting things to come of it.
SuIIy ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:42:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So who and what was the point of Snoke? Does anyone know yet? This is what's irritating me the most.
Not a lot, but he's just a grand and final stepping stone for Kylo Ren I think. Like in that story the Jedi won't tell you, the master couldn't save himself from death because his apprentice kills him.
The idea of using the force to survive is fine, but the Mary Poppins esque delivery took me right out of the film.
It's definitely the conscious nature of the action that ruins it.
I could have seen the force moving Leia entirely on its own, as if to say "The galaxy isnt done with you yet". Instead we get Superwoman
Iโd actually argue about the Leia scene. Iโd say itโs really not a surprise she can use the Force, given her background. I mean, just look at Kyloโs powers. Thatโs gotta come from somewhere.
I agree with you that it did really great for an eighth movie in a series. Many series end up playing to the same tropes and becoming very repetitive after awhile.
This, on the other hand, had just the right amount of callbacks to previous episodes to have a good sense of nostalgia, but also a ton of new, unexpected things (especially plot-wise)
[deleted] ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 12:11:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
Duck1337 ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 13:20:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
100% agreed. I loved the moment she "re-ignited" and her eyes opened, I was like "Fuck yes, finally Leia has a strong Force moment" but then the whole floating motion was just god awful.
I was thinking it would have been cool to see her use the force to save others. Maybe the blast doors won't shut and people are in danger of being sucked into space. She summons the force to close the blast doors, and dies in space. Would have been a good send off while showing her force abilities imo.
RunDNA ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:42:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is a total guess, but is it possible that it was Luke who saved her somehow?
Duck1337 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:55:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Considering how he "shut himself off" to the force untill about 70% of the way through the movie, i'd say no. This was all Leia.
RunDNA ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:56:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"Iโd actually argue about the Leia scene. Iโd say itโs really not a surprise she can use the Force, given her background. I mean, just look at Kyloโs powers."
Explains Reys powers then. Why is she now the greatest Jedi?
Thank you for taking the time to write up precisely how I feel - I'm exhausted (saw the film at midnight then again at 9am...) but share your sentiments.
Sempere ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:49:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree completely on the Leia scene. Completely hokey and just flat out weird. But I loved it from that point on.
dev1359 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:47:08 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You hit the nail on the head in a lot of aspects with this review. I walked out of this movie at the end not sure if I was satisfied or not, it's definitely a strange movie to me that has a lot that I liked and a hell of a lot that I disliked. Really not sure what to rate this one and I'll have to rewatch it before I decide.
Khrull ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:58:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So... Why are critics calling it one of the best star wars movies? That cause Disney paid them? I mean... You would do that for this movie... Lol everything I've read solidifies to me the movie just seems bad.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:55:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Funny how I assumec Kylo would be Anakin part 2 but he's actually the most three dimensional character.
its not that it wasnt playing it safe, its that it wasnt playing it smart. most of the choices made in this movie and by extension the franchise so far are just stupid. theyre not even difficult mistakes to fix they would require minimal changes to the story and a few throwaway lines in a few scenes like giving rey a decent backstory, explaining snokes motivations/ why he copied the emperor and his plans, why pretty much anything has happened so far. we have been teased with some great storyline but so far havent gotten jack shit.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:30:10 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This sums up a lot of what Iโm feeling. First 1/3 was bad, second 1/3 was pretty awesome, and then the end just seemed really convoluted.
Pretty much my impression completely. This one gave me something to chew on, had tough decisions and character growth (Luke being disillusioned and bitter and transcending the whole Jedi thing entirely is GREAT imo), a little too much cruft like the casino plot (though I liked the "infiltrate the enemy base" plan not working because I'm sick of that trope), but ultimately had a thousand times more to say than TFA, and felt way more grounded to me.
There's a lot of great criticism for this movie around but I feel like a lot of the "fuck this movie and the big shit it took on the OT, why aren't Rey's parents somebody we know?" comments aren't accomplishing that. I'm not invested in the view people have of a Star Wars movie (Blade Runner 2049 if my movie of the year), but I didn't feel bored or condescended to watching TLJ and it felt like it sprouted from some of the same soil as the OT with admittedly too much tiring action and too many sideplots pulled from more modern expectations.
The truth hurts I see. People were pointing out basically the same good and bad aspects about Valerian for example, and still labeled it as shit. You people ARE biased, and you HEAVILY use double standards while judging Star Wars vs any other SciFi/fantasy blockbuster
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:49:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
ender23 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:32:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The third movie will define how we feel about this one. It is the second movie of three. It does get a little preachy about poor people being the resistance. But I think it matches the times we are in. And our heros are not so black and white any more (totally on purposing pointing out the Asian girl). The struggle between light and dark for both Kylo and Rey I thought were masterfully done.
V13T ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:47:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This was exactly my experience. For the first third of the movie and after the plause of the review i heard i was really baffled. But since rey touches kylo and she flies off, HOLY! I was so excited, i also really liked snoke death because it was so unprobable before the movie. Really liked the originality, and will to expand the universe, instead of bigger, better, badder theme from TFA (which i still love). When you want to do something new is easy to do wrong (that's why tfa was played safe) and leia scene was my only really letdown of the film. (Maybe a little to comedic in the beginning, but star wars was always like that, instead people picture it a gritty and serious saga)
Just wanna thank you for putting down exactly how I feel. I just feel so conflicted about this film, many for the reasons you put down. So cheers. Take my gold
considering it's the 8th bloody movie in the franchise
9th.
[deleted] ยท 143 points ยท Posted at 18:50:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I have not seen the film yet but I find it funny/interesting that the film has such high ratings from critics but pretty much every comment here seems to be rather meh on it.
I can't give it a chance due to the cowardly time frame they chose to place the show in. CBS should've had some courage and gone into the future of Voyager if they expected me to watch.
[deleted] ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 23:58:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's baffling to me because there are so many flaws in it but the critic consensus is still positive. All of the reviews I've read have had negative aspects
SthrnCrss ยท 34 points ยท Posted at 20:28:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nobody hates Star Wars more than the Star Wars fans
Not really, to this day there is still a The Force Awakens defense force that will attack anyone who shits on it
scredeye ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 22:48:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
TLJ will also get a defence force, like the prequels, and even ROTJ for their ewoks. But you're right, people will defend TFA and rogue one to no end even though the former was very uninspiring and the later wasn't a very good movie. I personally enjoy them for what they are and have my own headcanon but as just fundamental movies alone, I feel like TLJ triumphs over the Disney star wars movies. Don't have any faith in their upcoming projects besides rians new trilogy so let's see if future movies are good.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 23:32:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I actually really liked Rogue One. It wasn't really a Star Wars movie. But I thought it was a great movie. The cinematography alone is superb.
It would have been a solid movie if we didn't already know how the plot turned out
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:04:58 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is such a dumb comnplaint I see all the time with prequels. How come when something is based on history, a book, comic, or is a remake it's fine that people know's what's going to happen and noone complains but when it's a prequel is suddenly a huge issue? I swear it just seems like a meme.
because normally in those adaptations, they dont base ALL of the tension on "WILL THEY SUCCEED?". Usually those movies are character based, or have some other theme that is the point of the movie.
scredeye ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 22:47:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's a strong amount of hate here but I genuinely enjoyed it. Besides killing ackbar casually and holdo wiping out the first order fleet easily, I thought the movie was amazing
I don't get why people have a problem with that. Not everyone gets an epic end. And it was nice for a change, it makes it sad that a great admiral is not mourned in the end and puts a great perspective at how wars distort things like this
scredeye ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 06:01:49 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Actually, all the leaders were mourned for, ackbar has his name called out too, it's just a shame that his death was so unnecessary and contributed nothing, it wouldve been better if they gave the OT characaters proper sendoffs like having ackbar do the suicide hyperdrive move instead of holdo. At least that way they could've developed holdo a lot more
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:33:31 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I loved this movie. For me it was THE best Star Wars. The force is not hereditary, missions not always successful, deaths can be random and not always something "hollywood-like I sacrifice myself blablabla", Skywalker that did not had a complete training made mistakes will training new apprentices.
That's war, shit happens, it happened, and I'm happy with this.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:55:27 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah right, I'm sure that's why they've had other high profile films bomb with critics in the oast, stop it with the silly conspiracy theories. More likely than not the people here were just hoping for something else than the critics.
Probably because critics can sit and openly watch a film and not be swayed by what they want to happen in the film. Fans canโt, if it doesnโt go their way they get upset
There were some negative reviews. And if you read the positive reviews closely, there was a lot of bet-hedging about it dragging in places, some of the humor feeling forced, not really that much like the other Star Wars films, etc.
Also, and this is a critically important point: when you get down to it, a lot of critics are just not into this type of movie. They get excited about European imports and obscure art-house flicks. When it comes to big action or sci-fi movies, they're often just taking a guess as to whether their audience will like it, because they really don't and would rather be watching David Lynch making a documentary about the life of Werner Herzog.
So I think it's possible that a whole lot of critics went and watched it and thought "eh, it wasn't terrible and I'm sure the kids will love it" and stamped "good enough" on their review. Incidentally . . . pretty much the same thing that happened with The Phantom Menace. A lot of the reviews before the first public viewings were positive but vague in the "good enough" vein - it was only after audiences gave it the thumbs-down that critics went back and reassessed it and decided that it really wasn't that great of a movie.
when you get down to it, a lot of critics are just not into this type of movie. They get excited about European imports and obscure art-house flicks.
I'm sorry, but WHAT? Critics have been praising everything down to the body odour of Disney executives for years now. If anything, they have been turning away from arthouse films more than anything else.
Critics have been praising everything down to the body odour of Disney executives for years now
I think that has a lot more to do with the fact that Disney executives have made it clear that critics who are insufficiently excited about their releases may not get invited to pre-screenings.
meeyans ยท 34 points ยท Posted at 14:18:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
yeah exactly, it was palpatine version 2.0 with none of the substance and made less sense. i wouldโve liked a bit of backstory because it didnโt make sense how he wouldโve gained this much power in the 30 years since ROTJ but at the end of the day he was a pretty unoriginal character to begin with.
Agree, poorly handled. I mean I'm happy he died like that, it was an epic scene imho, but the movie needed more about how he became the most powerful force user.
But tbh, I think he had more lines than Palpatine in the original trilogy. The character of Palpatine is all due to the prequels
Letโs see how episode 9 goes first. Just look at the marvel franchise, every movie is a set up for the next
noobule ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 16:32:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Captain of the Dreadnought was so cool! I really wish Hux was more like him - competent and in command, clearly the right man for the top job. But in this he's just a big whiner.
"THE GIRL HAS SPUNK!" or whatever the line was buckled me with laughter. It was just so out of left field to hear the big bad of this new trilogy use a word that I have so heavily associated with teenagedom.
TWK128 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:40:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That and porn.
Leckere ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:54:42 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Out of every word they couldโve used as well, like courage, steel, determination, stubbornness โ literally fucking anything โ they use โspunkโ.
This film felt much more like the beginning of an arch than the middle of it. In fact, the positions of the two sides are largely unchanged from the end of TFA to the end of TLJ.
The only real differences are that Snoke and Skywalker are both dead.
YAYSAY ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 01:42:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What exactly is the whole point of TFA now? The whole "map to skywalker" plot point seems silly now. Why were they even looking for him? So far, through 2 movies in the trilogy, nothing has really happened.
Exactly! It was so frustrating walking out of this movie knowing that TFA is lesser because of it.
wrc-wolf ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 10:55:26 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Instead of the middle piece of a trilogy, it felt like the 2nd installation in a 20+ film cinematic universe.
Jolron ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:01:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't agree actually. I feel like a lot of things you didn't expect to happen until the last film happened, Ben & Rey both got heaps of character development, and the fact that Snoke and Luke both are dead is huge. Now they both are left as the head figures of their respective sides, with a newfound responsibility. Not to mention the connection they now have, which makes everything all that more interesting...
I'm thinking more towards the overall plot of the trilogy. They're talking about the war just beginning yet we're going into the final film of the trilogy.
There was great character development for the opposing leads but ultimately I think the film wasted Snoke, Luke, Finn, and Rose.
Jolron ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:06:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Agreed.
Asiriya ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 20:08:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ben & Rey both got heaps of character development
No they didn't. They "bonded", but that hardly dragged them very far forwards.
Rey is still using the Dark side as her first option, to Luke's dismay. She's not confronted this at all. The assumption seems to be that "oh, she means well so it's all fine", but that's awful from a lore and plot perspective.
Ren is slightly better, his conflicts have changed his position, but as a character he hasn't really changed much. He was obsessed with Rey in TFA too.
Neknoh ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:05:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Obsession with Rey is one thing, however, he is no longer "split to the core", he is focused and truly lost, Leia even comments on it as Luke shows up. Kylo has gone from being torn between the light and the dark to being the leader of the dark side.
Meanwhile, Rey no longer goes for the dark side, she chose to go to Kylo to save him, not to destroy him, and she did not join him, his line of "let the past die" was for him to build something new, and for Rey to let go of her quest for her parents.
They are just starting out, but they are also just now finally becoming the characters they so easily (and boringly) could have been in the first movie.
camzabob ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 01:20:52 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly, it started with this super edgy evil guy who you could tell had some depth to his character, feeling the pull to the light. Then as TLJ went on, you felt he would eventually come to see more of the light and he was making good points to Rey (No Sith, No Jedi), and you could feel the hope that he'd join Rey and they'd team up and work toge- Nope, he's just evil now.
It seemed so unlike SW to end with that. I get that the message is that everyone can be a Force user and the Jedi can never really end. But Star Wars has always been about the Skywalkers. The one who brings balance to the Force, I would have loved to see Rey be another Skywalker meaning that as long as there are Skywalkers alive they will bring balance to the Force (both light and dark).
Also WTF was with that conspicuous Rebel logo ring. I feel like it was straight out of a cereal box.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:04:08 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well fuck the Skywalkers. The force balance existed before them, was awful during them, and will continue after them. I found it perfect.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:15:56 on December 17, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was under the impression from the EU via my wife, that everyone is force sensitive, but some much more than others. Some species are very little natural and others have no senses but the force.
I viewed the last scene as almost an epilogue. The rebels got away and their store is being told and retold to spread hope. How else would the boys have know about Luke's "last stand" that they were reรซnacting?
BIGR3D ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:27:06 on December 28, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In the EU everyone is not force sensitive. Just connected to the force. A forced example would be Han's family kind of joking that Han's luck is really the force guiding him. With everything being connected to the force in some way, that is plausible.
As to your second sentence, that would be a cool idea if we weren't 2/3 through a trilogy. Rebels lost, but the stories of their heroics get passed on. In time, someone/thing/organization truly takes it to heart, and relights the spark. Maybe even generations later.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:37:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Kylo needs an apprentice...
mtbatey ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 19:15:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I have not seen TLJ yet but it sounds like there is a lot of hate towards this movie from the fans. I wonder what this will do for not only Episode 9 but also the trilogy that they just gave to Johnson. No doubt this movie will make buckets of money but if people get turned off by the next episode, that is bad news for Disney and Star Wars as a whole.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:38:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
If I had known Disney would buy Fox, I never would've given them my money.
I don't think there will be an issue with the trilogy they gave Rian Johnson as long as he only directs. Seriously, this movie was really well directed and had some of the best looking shots in the franchise. Most people were disappointed in the plot. I don't want to go into detail (since you haven't seen it yet), but story wise it was pretty weak.
RedofPaw ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 20:05:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's a vocal group here that dislike it. I enjoyed it a great deal.
Angry vocal people, the majority that likes it donโt feel the need to go and write rants about it. The four guys and girls I watched it with absolutely loved it
yeah but now we get the FF and xmen and deadpool in the mcu, isnt that awesome! ...g-guys? /s
people also think this means that disney can release the originals without the extra stuff added in over the years but dont realize that
A) most of the stuff was just improved effects, lighting, etc. which improved the films since the originals aged pretty badly (which is why they needed to be updated)
B) George Lucas owns all the distribution rights for the first 6 films so unless he wants it to happen, theyre never getting a re release.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:16:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Neither of those things are true. Lucas does not own the distribution rights and the VAST majority of changes to the OT were cgi additions or new composites. In fact, they even made some things worse, depending on the version (Saber colors were wrong in parts of ANH and ROTJ, matte boxes were more obvious than the originals, hell, Luke and Vader's sabers literally go through each other in ROTJ in at least one of the versions).
The films need a remaster, not additions and updated effects. They really didn't age poorly, honestly they are miles above the SFX being done for films in their time.
Osmodius ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 21:00:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That was probably my biggest complaint.
I don't mind some haha in my movies, but it doesn't feel like it fits the theme.
Big moral dilemma about whether the Jedi are good or bad, whether the universe can be saved oops cut to penguin owls borking and chewie eating a plastic roast chicken. Hahah.
Reading all the initial reactions and reviews you knew it was coming. The moment Luke casually tossed away his lightsaber was when I knew it was going to be cringey.
Different styles of humour really. Half of the jokes felt traditional star warsy like "I changed my hair" and the "oh come on" when the escape ship blew up. The other half felt directly ripped from the disney/marvel style of movie. The first joke with Poe stalling for time by pretending not to hear felt like the most obvious, with a lot of the porg jokes too.
I was pretty worried at the start of the movie because the Poe conversation sounded directly ripped from GoTG.
I think the fear and mystery behind Snoke went completely out of the window with this movie, but not via comedy. Last we saw of the guy was a giant hologram, then it turns out he's a real person. Then he sits on his throne a bit and uses the force (lightning too) and dies.
Felt a bit strange given that TFA seemed to be setting Snoke up as "the" big bad guy that there's no chance of beating unless Kylo manages to overcome the darkness inside of him. Even in the start of TLJ Snoke was force choking officers without even being in the room. He was set up to be so powerful and died with less of a fight than his disposable guards.
There were countless theories wondering who he was and how he'd gotten so powerful. How was he going to be beaten? Sure the death came as a surprise - I didn't see it coming walking into the movie. But who's really going to take his place? Kylo isn't a fearsome and powerful opponent. Rey could probably go toe to toe with him at the end of TLJ.
I sort of feel the same, except that's what I liked about it. Snoke's anticlimactic death just shows he isn't the big threat after all, and now we're left with an evershifting Kylo, and a seemingly angry Rei. With Snoke and Luke gone, this seems to be going for shades of grey rather than good vs evil (also illustrated through the arms dealer ship). I'm sure the moral standpoints will be better clarified in the next movie.
My issue with Snoke however (and with a few things like The First Order and The Resistance) is that it's nowhere near established enough. We have no idea who Snoke was (a sith lord presumably) and now it seems we never will know.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 02:57:06 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Luke just throwing his lightsaber, i mean, i laughed, but...
That felt like a star wars moment to me. But when it happened I thought it was a "lightsabers don't make us jedi" yoda-ish sort of moment and it wasn't and I got a bit disappointed
Is has, but it never sacrificed tension for the sake of them. Thatโs the big difference. Nobodyโs cracking jokes during the Trench Run in IV, but in TLJ it was just too much.
It seems it is very much a love hate for the jokes. I quite liked it because it needed a bit of counter to the brutality of the conflict.
Snark88 ยท 79 points ยท Posted at 16:35:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So this movie establishes two new things about the Force.
Anyone born Force Sensitive can use and execute Force skills (such as Force Pull or Force Persuasion) without any prior training, education, or even knowledge that such skills exist. So anyone wondering how Rey was able to pull off such great feats in the first movie, it's because The Force, ain't gotta explain shit.
Force Ghosts can affect the physical plane. Why Yoda, Anakin or Obi-Wan don't manifest within Snoke's Capital Ship and use the Force to tear it apart, alludes me.
[deleted] ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 21:37:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Luke was struggling to lift a damn rock until ESB.. but Rey, Leila, etc are controlling the weather, flying, using persuade, mind reading...
It's like they tossed out any limitations and just made the force into the power of god
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 00:58:57 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
yeah this movie just further disconnects the whole saga. How are anakin and vader these amazing mythological figures who were the best if the new movies just shit on them completely?
Osmodius ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:12:55 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone born Force Sensitive can use and execute Force skills (such as Force Pull or Force Persuasion) without any prior training, education, or even knowledge that such skills exist
Honestly, I'm fine with that.
In that instance of broom boy, imagine all those times you've gone to reach for something that you had an idea of where it was in relation to you but it was just an inch or two away from where you thought it was. He's never had that, the broom has just always 'been there'.
Yeah it wasn't a good end note. But I didn't hate the sentiment.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:10:45 on December 17, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was always the case that some are more force sensitive than others and it's often not genetics. Heck, there are species that hunt soley with the force and have no other senses.
I felt like the films biggest problem was where it put it's impact. We have admiral Ackbar killed with little fuss, while a purple haired nobody gets a dramatic hyperspace kamikaze. We have what looks like a dramatic fight and possible send off for Luke, just for him to fizzle out of existence afterwards when it all looks clear. We have what looks like a sudden dramatic and unexpected send off for Leia, just for it to immediately be undone as she force flies herself back to safety. The same essentially happens again with Finn too, robbed of a dramatic death at the last moment, and then Snoke is the ultimate anticlimax. These moments just seemed to play off wrong (in my opinion anyway) and its a shame because the film was utterly fantastic with these things aside. It should of been Leia or Ackbar that went down with the kamikaze ship. That scene was amazing the way it was done but I feel like it would of left a truly lasting memory in a movie if they had at least put somebody significant behind it. For most folks these impactful moments just weren't quite right, and there was enough of them to bring down the films overall impact by the end of it. I just keep thinking on all those moments instead of the overall amazing sweep of the film.
๐๏ธ unipleb ยท 163 points ยท Posted at 11:25:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought purple-hair was getting valuable screen time because there was going to be an important passing of the reigns from Fischer. They seemed to have a bond. So I was slightly confused when she then got a dramatic death scene and is now gone.
Poe was OP in his X-Wing but what a rash buffoon he was made to be by Leia twice (after destroying the dreadnaught losing bombers and then trying a coup). He learnt his lesson retreating the speeders on crait I guess
LDKCP ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:58:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The bombers would not have survived this film, so Poe was right to do what he did at the start, in hindsight of course. The coup/Finn plot nearly doomed them.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:01:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Poe was right with the coup as well. Why couldn't the Hunger Games general just tell the plan to him?
Poe was desperate cause it appeared they were just waiting for their deaths. So he went with what he thought was the only available option.
LDKCP ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:10:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He found out, so did the bad guys. Need to know basis.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 23:36:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why? Why would she have any reason to not trust the dude that almost killed himself a number of times for the rebellion?
LDKCP ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:43:24 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The guy who ended up starting a mutiny and ruined the plan as soon as he found out any information about it?
What you are describing is the opposite of how a well run military force works. The admiral was brash and rude to Poe, but it was well within her rights not to reveal her plans.
While skillful communication may have been able to solve the problem, it's not a guarantee that Poe would have come around to the idea. The last thing that she needed in a situation with that much time pressure was his insubordination.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:35:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That was not a well run military force. Those were the last people of the resistance alive. And they all thought they were going to die.
In a believable situation, the soldiers would kill the leaders and surrender.
On the luke fizzing out thing.. I took that as him using literally everything he had to make that happen, to save the day and help the rebellion start anew, and once he did that he let go and passed on.. a heroic death
ChipMania ยท 201 points ยท Posted at 11:42:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why did Luke not tell them he was going to buy them time so they could escape instead of Po having to work it out? 'No, he must be fighting him for a reason, he must be buying us time so we can escape!' Wouldn't Luke explicitly say that to them all to make sure they get the fuck out of there.
This movie had so many small scenes that just didn't make sense or left me baffled that I made a list of them. Such a depressingly average star wars movie in my opinion.
ender23 ยท 65 points ยท Posted at 12:43:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs this shoehorned in Poe becoming a leader sorry they try to tell, where heโs not reacting to stuff but thinking it through. Itโs just not well done
That was to show that Poe learnt his lesson after getting in the way and being useless the whole film. What a waste of a good character.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:04:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The bombers would have been destroyed afterwards anyway. And Poe's plan was better than doing nothing waiting to die.
ChipMania ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 12:46:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair on Poe that purple haired character could have easily highlighted her plan instead of keeping it secret, but of course we have to have tension between them for some reason. I felt nothing for most of the characters simply because they made retarded choices the entire film that actually left me hoping they would die.
When Rose passed out after kissing Finn I was laughing with my friend because she was finally dead, it was finally over - but no Finn had somehow dragged her stupid Asian body back to the bunker in front of the entire enemy line, just plot armor after plot armor.
Please post the list, I'm so disappointed but feel like I'm forgetting some of the scenes when ranting about it.
ChipMania ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 14:40:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So far I have:
Purple haired commander woman not telling everyone her plan to cause unnecessary tension between her and Poe, since Poe is totally on board with it as soon as he's been told the plan
Poe being okay with suicide bombing in the first scene but then not being okay with it when it actually makes sense to suicide bomb their laser at the end - they would have all died if Luke didn't predictably deus ex machina to save the day
Leia using the force and looking like Mary Poppins to jetpack inside
CGI yoda sets fire to the archives from beyond the grave??
Chrome dome Fasma pathetically useless in yet another film
Rose somehow crashing into Finn and them both surviving even though Finn's plan was about to work to stop the laser. All for that kiss we've all been waiting for /s
Empire seemingly skimping on their army constantly to stop the rebels even though they have a massive army at their disposal, better just send 4 or 5 ATATs, should do the job.
Snoke (Most powerful force user in the galaxy) tricked by apprentice sneaky boi and killed with no proper backstory or interesting lore
Luke drinking from that weird cow's titty and snarling at Rey??
Chewie with those stupid fucking birds, really rinsed the shit out of that 'comedic' relief.
The race horses they use to escape look like the animal in Last Guardian, plus her taking off the harness and saying 'now it's worth it' as if we care about this plot line at all.
General bb-8 stuff, they've somehow managed to make a droid unit a mary sue character that can just do anything it wants. I liked bb-8 in the first film but the 'cooky' shit annoyed me after 5 times.
Them finding the master code breaker conveniently in a cell which they immediately break out, using some bit of shit he has in his pocket??
That's all I have for now but there are plenty more if I was being really pedantic.
The only one I can disagree with is Yoda, I think he's become one with the force (like Obi-Wan and now Luke) so can still affect the physical world. Apart from that you're on the money, and I still feel like there are some others I'm forgetting. I can't get over how disappointing that film was, and your point about BB-8 is one that everybody else I've talked to has disagreed with me on. They're using a helper droid as some kind of superhero.
ChipMania ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 16:11:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It managed to take down 4 guards and control an AT-AT unit, might as well make it a jedi at this point.
EDIT: I didn't actually mind Yoda that much I just thought it looked a bit retarded, still had a good laugh and enjoyed it I think
They were a hardcore splinter group who broke off when the Empire was defeated. They may have practically destroyed the Republic, but they are not that powerful. They don't control the galaxy and are yet to capitalise on defeating the Republic.
LDKCP ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:02:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When keeping things need to know might cause a take over a good leader doesn't keep things need to know.
Is trying to make a point about the chain of command worth jeopardizing your mission and putting hundreds in absolute panic for their lives?
Just fucking tell people. What will they do? Broadcast the mission to the empire? They can do that from the planet if that's the worry. It makes no sense.
Why make it seem like she was just doing nothing when she could have literally just been like 'right we're abandoning ship to this planet because they can't track our smaller vessels' to the entire crew instead of keeping it secret? The entire crew were skeptical of her, she made them all turn on her for no reason at all.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 10:57:45 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why make it seem like she was just doing nothing
They don't. If you'd watched the film you'd have noticed the multiple scenes where the other commanders say their goodbyes and say that they hope this plan works.
The entire crew were skeptical of her, she made them all turn on her for no reason at all.
The mutiny is shown to be literally just Poe and a few of his friends. What movie were you watching?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:32:05 on December 27, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:47:45 on December 27, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They did. Notice how Poe and everyone is instantly fucked and have to resort to locking down the bridge?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 10:46:54 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Purple haired commander woman not telling everyone her plan to cause unnecessary tension between her and Poe, since Poe is totally on board with it as soon as he's been told the plan
The hell are you talking about? Poe's first reaction is to instigate a mutiny, calling her a coward and a traitor for doing so.
Poe being okay with suicide bombing in the first scene but then not being okay with it when it actually makes sense to suicide bomb their laser at the end
Doesn't happen.
CGI yoda sets fire to the archives from beyond the grave??
Puppet, not cgi, and it's been established as canon that force ghosts can interact with the world.
Finn's plan was about to work to stop the laser.
Absolutely no evidence of this.
Empire seemingly skimping on their army constantly to stop the rebels even though they have a massive army at their disposal, better just send 4 or 5 ATATs, should do the job.
They had just lost their largest ship with the majority of their forces, did you even watch the movie?
Snoke (Most powerful force user in the galaxy)
Nobody has ever said this.
no proper backstory or interesting lore
Nobody promised this either.
Them finding the master code breaker conveniently in a cell which they immediately break out, using some bit of shit he has in his pocket??
Holy shit, remember the time they conveniently found Han Solo, master pilot, just randomly at a bar somewhere with a shitty ship that could totally take on the empire?
What? You think one man is just going to walk out there with a lazersword and face down the entire First Order and win?
ChipMania ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:03:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You'll never get me to change my mind! R2 shows clip Training tomorrow!
Zunthe ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:30:36 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This movie had so many small scenes that just didn't make sense or left me baffled that I made a list of them.
It was horribly directed in my opinion. The story moved along well but I still can't shake how mediocre of a movie it was and how bad it was to sit through most of it. It had some great moments but outside of that it was a very weak film.
Choekaas ยท 36 points ยท Posted at 12:15:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I agree. And on another note, throughout the whole movie we see him being bound to his "human self". Travelling up and down that steep island. Catching fish. Getting green milk. There's no sci-fi technology, he lives like a regular man in an ancient time. At the end he escapes his physical boundaries, his old worn-out human body, and becomes one with The Force. Like projecting himself to Kylo as a much younger Luke as well.
I loved his comments to Kylo Ren, that no matter what, Luke will be there. Echoing what Kenobi said that striking him down made him even more powerful. And when Luke told Kylo that, that brought us a scarier and more immense power than saltoing and shouting on Mustafar or something like that.
Amazing thing would be if Kylo's and Rey's connection was stronger and stronger and then he would be able to cross the bridge and cross to her and Luke.
We see he is impacted by raindrops, so one would expect something out of it :/
or he couldve just showed up and done it in person and had a satisfying, emotionally charged battle with kylo and reunited with the good guys and it wouldve been a great part of the film. but as usual they chose not to do that because then people would still be focused on luke and not their terrible new characters so they killed him off instead and now everyones pissed.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:47:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I noticed in the first Rey and Kylo scene Kylo says โyouโre not projecting yourself, that would kill youโ or something to that effect. Which sets that up in a way
In other words, the emotional roadmap of the movie was all over the place.
That's a pretty big flaw.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:16:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Speaking of the kamikaze, why make complicated plans to destroy death star 3.0 if you could've just flown a ship into it at hyperspeed?
nommas ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:16:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah if purple hair lady was just replaced with Ackbar it would have done the same job but with a little more impact I feel. She didn't bring anything really new to the table and Ackbar doesn't really have a developed personality in the movies. We don't see him often enough to know anything other than he is a driven and skilled leader.
So why not make Ackbar the driven and skilled leader in this movie? Purple hair lady was neat and all, but swap her with Ackbar and the movie would benefit.
there was no impact because the characters arent compelling and the story sucks, would you honestly care if any of the characters besides those from the pre-disney era died? i know i wouldnt and its because theyre just so unlikable, they have almost no endearing qualities or scenarios that make you root for them like the previous movies have.
I completely agree. Star Wars should be epic. They had so much room to be special and I can't understand why they chose to be lackluster in so many different parts. I read great reviews and I wanted to love this movie, but it was just painfully average. That forced romance with Finn followed by the most awkwardly shoehorned kiss I've ever seen.
There was no reason for that purple hair lady to exist. It was clearly a "look women in power" from Disney. So contrived. If Leia and admiral akbar weren't there then she would be relevant.
You know what I'd have liked to see? Ackbar survives, assumes command and opts to stay on the ship and sacrifice himself, and when doing the hyperspace kamikaze says to himself "now this is a real trap" or something. The guy needed a real scene.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 13:39:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why are fans so enamored with Ackbar anyway? Doesn't he have a small handful of lines in the OT and was a big meme for a while? There's nothing special about him.
I agree with you, but would it not be more elegant to use him as the kamikaze instead of using a new character? I think we'd react more passionately if Ackbar had guns pointed at him by Poe's loyal team.
I think they were just trying to be different, and subvert those classic โclicheโ death tropes...but somehow that made it feel less like Star Wars
rebb1t ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:27:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yea fking racist bullshit, heโs a fking Admiral !!
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:41:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ackbar has about three lines in the OT and people wouldn't even know his name, if it wasn't for the its a trap meme. I have no reason to care about this dude. I don't know his character, except for his amazing observation skills, and he is a weird space alien so it's extra difficult to relate to him. I didn't like purple hair lady, but it least she has some sort of arc.
It hurts me to say that I didn't like this film, played it so safe and so many fake out deaths. For such a long film, nothing really particularly happened. I'd argue there is a plot, but not a story.
For people saying they're not sure if they like it and need to watch it again, to me isn't that saying you don't like it? If your gut instinct is meh or not sure, surely that says all you need to know. Its an emotional reaction
For films like this which I've been looking forward to for some time, I usually have to give them a 2nd chance. The 1st viewing I spend subconsciously assessing it against my own expectations - is the story/tone/characters/score etc what I wanted? So my initial reaction might not be fair, because part of my experience is from judging it based on what I wanted/expected rather than on it's own terms. The 2nd viewing is sometimes more balanced because those expectations have gone out the window already, so I watch it for what it is, not what I wanted it to be. Sometimes it pays off (I prefer TFA now to when I first saw it), sometimes it doesn't (Jurassic World, alas, did not reveal hidden depth or charm).
No I get that completely and each to their own I suppose. However, when a critic goes to watch a film, they sit down and watch it once and review it. They don't sit there and watch it a million times and review it. You have to be able to judge a film on its merits and demerits the first and only watch. You may take away more from a film on repeat viewings, but a movie also has to and should be able to engage on all levels on a single viewing.
True, but with films like this I'm watching as a fan, not a film critic! I can assess films objectively but when it comes to things like Star Wars my thoughts on pacing/cinematography/what it brings to the genre etc are less important than, say, whether Yoda looks weird or if I liked what they did with characters I've grown up with.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:39:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
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[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:46:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
you're only giving it that many chances because of Disney's marketing machine
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:52:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, i'm giving it that many chances because i have the opportunity to see it several times for 0 charge.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 21:00:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like this was a legitimately awful 1 hour movie followed by a solid 1.5 hour movie. It was so bizarre. Every time Rey or Kylo was on screen I was engaged, and every time they werenยดt I was bored witless.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:15:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
You joking? That initial scene with Poe taking on the dreadnought was amazing, then they followed it up with Snoke flinging Hux around like a puppet. And then an awesome "do we run or do we fight? Yes." scene.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:49:51 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That initial scene with Poe taking on the dreadnought was amazing
It's a bit insulting that disney thinks audiences needs jokes and pointless cute fury animals every 5 minutes to keep them focused and not lose their attention span.
rushworld ยท 181 points ยท Posted at 14:22:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Whenever a new cute creature or funny character came on screen my first thought was "oh, Disney want to sell THIS character as a toy now..."
[deleted] ยท 79 points ยท Posted at 17:14:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Let's be fair, Star Wars as a method to sell toys is not a uniquely Disney thing.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:52:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Even the Ewoks had a purpose within the plot. They capture the group because they are outsiders like the Empire, they get them on their side and show they aren't bad, and then they work together to beat the empire. The porgs and crystal critters are just there to say OMG SO CUTE I NEED TO BUY THE PLUSHIE TOY. Same with Phasma, OMG THE CHROME STORMTROOPER SO COOL OH WAIT SHE DIDNT DO ANYTHING BUT LOOK COOL.
blk-cffee ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 19:25:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ewoks were made to save money on effects and make star wars more kid friendly and set up a new kids franchise. Your complaints are old news and we have been saying the same stuff since before your time, even about the original series.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:33:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
So very unlike Boba Fett, Jawas, mouse droids, every none R2-D2 droid or the fact that basically every single background character has at least two toy varients, a written backstory and an EU book
chiefyk ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:35:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Iโve never seen reddit be so cynical about a film before.
Stibben ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:30:55 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I felt like I was watching Fantastic Beasts.
Mamsies ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 20:58:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I actually really liked the Porgs up until Rey left the island. Every single time they appeared after that just felt so forced and annoying.
Like, during the epic chase sequence through the crystal mines on Crait, there were like three random shots of a Porg just screaming at the camera for no reason.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 01:03:14 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Formula works, The Formula is profitable. We must never veer from The Formula.
Ugh I was so annoyed by the constant jokes during the first arc and then weโve got these cute animals which were ok for a little bit but got tired incredibly quick and just became more annoying.
It all felt so out of place and turned some moments that couldโve been great into just eye-rolling ones.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 22:58:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It honestly felt like more like Spaceballs in places.
It's a family movie because Disney. Must entertain kids too.
jurwell ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 15:05:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Star Wars has always had silly fun bits in it, I canโt believe the number of people who think this is either new, exclusively a Disney addition, or both. Wisecracking and slapstick have always been there right from A New Hope and both are an integral part of the way Star Wars tells its stories.
[deleted] ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 18:47:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Most of the humor in the OT also aided characterization e.g. all of Han's witty comments.
I'm alright with humor in Star Wars, but there were more quips and gags in the first 45 minutes of TLJ than there were in the entire original trilogy.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 10:04:06 on December 20, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Agreed. Humor is fine. Too much humor is not. Also, a painful amount of the jokes did not land.
Pioness ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:33:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was waiting for this comment. So many people hate it because of the jokes. Like the originals didnโt have jokes or werenโt downright cheesy at times? Come on.
well they keep making the same movie with different characters and it keeps making billions each time so they must be right. they make movies for the average moviegoer, not the fan or person who park their brain at the door when watching a movie. dont get me wrong i like mindless blockbusters as much as the next guy, but holy shit people act like theyre some masterpiece when theyre really not. these movies are the same level as michael bays transformers movies, mindless action and bland characters you can project yourself onto.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:00:14 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Are you talking about Return of the Jedi.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:23:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
the most important audience for Disney does need those things.
Had kids in my cinema showing who were getting pretty restless during the island scenes especially as it dragged on. Porgs were placed there specifically to keep small children focused during the long exposition scenes.
It is. But it really isnโt our grandfatherโs or fatherโs Star Wars anymore.
Itโs for a new generation of 8-14 year olds.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:58:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There are kids watching too, man, don't forget. Kids don't have a great attention span and when there is a lot of exposition going on for adult audiences, that stuff keeps them interested. They were nowhere near as bad as Jar Jar, at least they weren't actually characters.
I thought the little puffins would be annoying when I saw the trailer, but they were fine.
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 18:48:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
OT managed to do it without stupid humor
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:25:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was mostly referring to the cute animals, I can handle them, the marvel-esque humour was painful.
audiences needs jokes and pointless cute fury animals every 5 minutes to keep them focused and not lose their attention span.
Who do you think they are shooting for with this?
Riddy86 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:38:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Star Wars has always had cute furry animals, don't blame Disney for something Lucas started with Ewoks, I know it's cool to hate Disney no w a days but come on.
I strongly disliked Rose, like what was the point of her? The only mission she and Finn decided to do almost caused the entire annihilation of the rebel army. She herself became a traitor by going against the orders . And the romance was just weird and made no sense. There was no inclination beforehand that she had any romantic feeling whatsoever and now she suddenly loves Finn?! Saving Finn was brave but she didn't know Luke would arrive and Finn's sacrifice would have helped the rebels save time so again she would be inadvertently responsible for deaths of the remaining rebels. She basically saved 1 guy but only to doom the rest.
The only thing I liked about the romance of is that this might mean there won't be a Finn and Rey romance although I am seriously dreading a twilight esque love triangle.
[deleted] ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 21:06:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rose was there for diversity points
rmw6190 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 00:31:33 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
they wanted a more diverse cast. But they also didnt want the white girl rey to be romantic with the black guy finn. So they had Finn get with a random asian.
The movie is very progressive. Captain Kirk had an interracial kiss in the 60s
hylas89 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 05:20:00 on December 20, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Correct. Now theyโre clearing the way to a more racially appropriate pairing with whites like Po or maybe Kylo.
Token Asian character. That is pretty much her only function, to add more diversity.
Don't get me wrong, diversity in films is essential to good storytelling and to adding representation to people of different backgrounds... but when it's so obviously thrown in just as a feel-good token it entirely ruins the purpose.
I kinda feel they should have sticked with Paige. It would have been fun to see a badass female pilot. She was a cool character.
Edit: and introducing new diverse characters isn't bad but Rose took up waaaaaayy to much screen time compared to other new and more interesting characters.
I've joked you can almost see the scribblings in the margin of the script with numerically delineated pre-selections for the gender and race of the extras and bit actors provided by Central Casting for each scene.
And then on the opposite side, everybody in the First Order is white, with the most Aryan leader possible, and the only black guy we've ever seen is the one who quits and joins the Resistance without so much as a shred of character development.
That's not inclusivity. That's literally manipulating the preconceived biases of the audience with coldly calculated Conspicuous Diversity. The Resistance looks like a photo I can find on Shutterstock.
Waoeden ยท 49 points ยท Posted at 16:07:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
" Diversity in movies is ESSENTIAL to good storytelling"
Nope. It is not
[deleted] ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 18:08:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
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[deleted] ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 18:28:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Depends on the story being told 100%.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 18:44:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 18:56:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Im just agreeing with the guy who said diversity isnt essential for a movie. In star wars it makes sense but in alot, aaaaalot, of movies it just feels forced
Us minorities are able to relate to characters based on their personalities and deeds. We have the ability to see past skin color and ethnicity. Thanks for sticking up for us, though. Really need more people like you waving that flag of condescension around.
Waoeden ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 22:57:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There is no such thing as ''relating'' to a character. This is completely bollocks.
The casting should make sense and that is all. And you said it is ''essential'' to a good story telling.
Does godfather needs a black person to be good story telling?
Does 2001 needs a native american to be good story telling?
Does raging bull needs a chinese to be good story telling?
Does the original star wars need transexuals do be good story telling?
What you are saying is that being a white men by itself brings homogeneity to the plot. That is dim, naive or stupid at best.
So no, a story does NOT need diversification be good story telling. That is PC bullcrap.
What does race have to do with relating to a character? You think Finn or black people in Star Wars have the same kind of experiences that black people in America experience?
[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 19:28:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I as a white person can't really relate to this in the same way but I feel it in a similar way as a woman with strong female characters. Princess Leia was and will always be a icon but she was one of the few. I was so excited when they introduced Rey and was kinda blown away by Jyn and to be honest I couldn't care less what race rose is or the color of her skin. But I honestly think they did her a disservice by making such a poorly developed character, they had a chance but messed it up.
bedbugsex ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 15:56:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was also nice to see the casting of a fairly unattractive female actor which isn't played for laughs or a plot point I guess.
Declanhx ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 20:42:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
But in this case it makes sense to have mostly white villains. The empire to me at least seemed very similar to the third reich. Only the sith seem to be more diverse with their species.
Declanhx ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:11:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Donโt you see how racist that is towards whites?. โMinorities canโt be evil, just white menโ
I never said minorities can't be evil but George Lucas, production staff, and StarWars.com have stated that many themes, plots, designs, and even terms used in Star Wars were indeed inspired by Hitler and Nazi Germany and considering those guys were famously ALL WHITE it's not odd nor racist that the empire members are also mostly all white. However Finn has proven that the first order at least is possibly more diverse with their human born troopers.
Edit: and please get over yourself, the creators received a shit ton of hate for having a black storm trooper in the force awakens trailer because it wasn't canon enough to the originals. Seems that no matter what they they do people will get angry about stuff. First they don't like their troopers being black and then they don't like them being white.
Edit2 a word
Declanhx ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:23:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Are you completely forgetting who jango fett is on purpose or?
Only for the clone troopers in the prequels.Over time the clones were retired from Imperial service, leaving the stormtrooper ranks open to birth-born human recruits.
You seem to be contradicting yourself. It feels like you are angry the bad guys are all white and that it is racist and then you prove yourself wrong by proving not all the bad guys are aryan
Declanhx ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:23:52 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
While you make up your fake narratives and get offended Iโm gonna be watching the grand tour. Cya.
[deleted] ยท 154 points ยท Posted at 12:55:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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tlvrtm ยท 47 points ยท Posted at 16:48:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Waaay too much story crammed in there. Think about TFA's opening scenes with Rey scavenging the planet for spare parts. Nothing even close to that in this movie. There's a sense of confidence to just letting scenes play out without dialogue, this movie doesn't do any of that.
[deleted] ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 20:12:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
People forget the quieter moments in TFA. Several scenes have no dialogue: Rey's daily life, most of the final duel, and, as usual, the whole ending.
Vingle ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:59:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with your points about quiet scenes, but the ending was sort of undermined by the camera spinning around in a helicopter.
To me it made me dislike TFA. Showed how unoriginal and "safe" TFA was in comparison.
People in this thread are saying that TLJ just looks like a Marvel film. I don't know where they get that. TFA was by definition a crowd pleaser. TLJ went somewhere different. Took some risks.
I liked this one more. I don't feel the slightest need to rewatch TFA ever again. I've tried to prepare for this one and stopped after they fall on the planet. But I do think I can get out more of a rewatch of this one. Also I was way more engaged with the story on this one and was surprised more.
_Ishmael ยท 45 points ยท Posted at 21:09:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm very confused by how the critics seem to be really enjoying the film but pretty much everyone I've talked to, and all the commenters on here, have had some pretty major issues with the film. Did we see different versions or something? I hear one critic say it might be on par with TESB but I really wouldn't go that far.
Maybe some of them were paid off to write positive reviews.
blaineh2 ยท 97 points ยท Posted at 15:54:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I cant believe I am saying this about a Star Wars movie but I am not sure I even liked it.
So much just didn't sit right and the Leia surviving a flight through the vacuum of space was the start of a catalogue of issues I have with the movie. Many of which left me scratching my head, cringing or laughing for the wrong reasons.
Also the fleeting physical action scenes fell completely flat for me. There just didn't seem to be any sense of grandeur, tension or stakes with it.
I could go on but I need more time to process what I have just seen. All in all I feel massively underwhelmed about it all right now
You dont find watching the resistance go from a fleet with bombers and fighters and cruisers to just the Millenium Falcon with 12 ish people to be grandeur or tense? Slowly watching all the rebels die in the black of space?
chx_ ยท 83 points ยท Posted at 21:24:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Did... did I watch a different movie than the reviewers? This was a bad movie by any standards, Star Wars or not.
Like, holy shit, if that general told Poe what she plans, so much trouble could've been saved. Heck you could've cut Finn and the entire plotline out without much lost.
Ever heard of Chekhov's gun? In this case, X-Fighter? Seriously, we saw Luke's X Fighter underwater and we didn't get a homage of Luke lifting it this time?
So we had Supreme Leader Snoke without any backstory in the Force Awakens (despite there is only two Sith, master and apprentice so who's this guy) and here, we get ... bupkiss.
What a shit closure to Luke, seriously, winking out on a remote planet alone? Here's a deserving fate: after said homage, he flies in to the planet , lands, swipes away the walkers like nothing (we need him to show off!) and as he feels Rey escaping he lifts his saber in another homage to receive the killing blow.
Oh and how did Rey got to the Falcon and down to the planet without the First Order whose entire might is present realizing?
Oh and jedis and lifting and Rey -- so glad Rey have managed to lift any number of boulders without any training. That's just swell. Speaking of Jedi capabilities, Yoda's force ghost affected the physical plane?? OK, one small brownie point for the clever wording of Rey taking the sacred jedi books but one gigantic negative for Yoda affecting reality. If he could do that why didn't all the Force Ghosts we know of (Qui Gon Jinn, Obi Wan Kenobi, Yoda and Anakin Skywalker), I dunno, appeared in Snoke's chamber decades ago and tore him to very small pieces? Where's the logic? Yes, we accept that different rules exist, it's a space opera and that some rules are soft defined , it's not hard sci fi but still, there are rules or there's nothing to root for because anything goes. This is not even moviemaking 101, this is story telling 101 and older than civilization itself.
Speaking of winking out, gosh, why didn't Leia say something like, "you are the rebellion now" , lies down and winks out with a characteristic green border to show she is a force ghost now, too.
That multi boobed scene, gosh, save us from that crap and show more training scenes. If we are told there will be three, gosh damn the hack, show us three!
Did this movie get raving reviews because Luke was not kicking ass this time and not playing a straight Yoda? Geez, wow, fourty years pass and we can make a different movie now, everyone please praise us? The story was weak, the cutting of different plotlines together terrible at times,
[deleted] ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 23:49:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did anyone else feel like there were two different cinematographers on this film? There were some amazing shots and the there are some which felt like a fan film.
So did anyone else notice that one of the Resistance ships was a Starcraft battlecruiser? They weren't in the original Star Wars were they?
Also I must have been more effective at avoiding spoilers then I thought because Benicio del Toro came right the fuck out of nowhere for me. Fun surprise though.
Minscota ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 12:18:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was really hyped when I saw Justin Theroux at the poker table, but then they switched him out for Benicio Del Toro and I was like, oh so this guy is gonna be REALLY important - and then he wasn't...
[deleted] ยท 57 points ยท Posted at 19:07:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 19:16:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
yeah BvS besides the awful villains was enjoyable. And at least it was original and told a coherent story.
phasE89 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:47:14 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Tinfoil hat on - apart from this unofficial discussion thread, in every other major discussion thread there are a lot more comments praising TLJ to heavens than criticising it. Very suspicious...
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:04:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well, look at what they did to LA Times. At this point I can't trust any reviews anymore. :(
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:12:00 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Spot the DC fanboy
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 19:23:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
i was thinking this is like family guy: blue harvest
epicluca ยท 340 points ยท Posted at 11:30:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I just found so many things wrong with this movie. From the moment Leia force flew her way out of space I knew I was in for a conflicted journey. Everytime it was a Rey/Luke scene I was excited, then when it was Finn/Rose it just felt like I was watching the prequels. Honestly, that woman alien with the huge tits? That was prequel level of humor. Deejay's comedic stuttering bordered on Jar-Jar Binks level of annoying for me, and really it all just felt contrived. ALSO why was Holdo just a Professor Umbridge knockoff for an hour? That was frustrating. Yeah I get that she had good intentions and Poe should have listened to her, but don't force it on the audience too. She goes from a side-villain within the resistance that you want to fuck off to a sudden hero which means there's no emotion when she sacrifices herself!
The Yoda stuff was cool, the Luke thing at the end was... weird, the whole Snoke thing was just pointless.
I saw a double bill of TFA before TLJ and I went in with so many expectations, in the end all I got was a sense of dissatisfaction, but also wonder of what the hell IX will be about.
nashist ยท 111 points ยท Posted at 12:38:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Amazing, I agree with every single thing you said. I sometimes find it hard to explain myself and you just said everything I wanted to say about this movie.
I would also throw in the overuse of creatures (not just porgs) bordering on Pokemon/Fantastic Beasts level, only to be useless and distract from the actual movie.
epicluca ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 13:12:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, on the creatures: in TFA it was great seeing the gritty creatures on Jakku but that was all we needed, the practical effects as fan service for nostalgia to the old movies. In this one it was just a cringe fest of weird sexual animals and obvious shoehorns for merchandise. I guess the only useful creature were the crystal foxes, for leading the resistance out of that cave.
nashist ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:41:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
By the crystal foxes I was so fed up with creatures that I just wanted them to fuck off. When they actually had a purpose I told myself they could as simple have put in some plans of the base that were not destroyed and they followed a tunnel on it and it was still blocked
I just rolled my eyes when suddenly "no way of getting out according to plans" became "well, actually, there is a way out in the plans, but its just a maze."
I watched a double bill too and found the difference in tone really jarring. While TFA played it pretty safe, there was a consistent level of quality throughout the whole film and I was really engrossed, even having seen it multiple times.
TLJ kept pulling me out of the film with a bad joke, overdone cute animals, weird stutters, etc. etc. Overall it just felt like the quality bar was much lower than when JJ was at the helm. There were some great scenes for sure, but also way too many off moments that slipped through the net, which really hurt the viewing experience.
epicluca ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:57:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's why whilst I stand by my review and feeling of the movie, I definitely owe it to myself to see TLJ again standalone and not at midnight.
I was on Holdo's side the whole time which made that entire subplot weird for me. Poe has an ego and wants to be part of the decision making, but he has just proven to everyone that he doesn't like taking orders (even from Leia who he respects), and people died as a result. He is not a likeable character by any stretch, and Finn is too gullible to notice he's just a pawn in Poe's ego game.
Not relevant but surely the casino had a dress code too? They were sent completely unprepared.
I thought the stuttering dude was one of the stronger characters tbh, stronger than Finn or Poe. The dude was essentially "I have hacks if you have coin" who got captured and sold his last highest bidders to the newest highest bidder (though I'm not sure how he found out about their plan to evacuate since not even Finn knew about it).
He's one of the few characters who acted believably both in terms of acting ability as well as in universe logic.
f1mxli ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:00:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Professor Umbridge knockoff
Add that to Rey's failed Occlumency leading to a trap and the mentor deaths and we've got an Order of the Phoenix rip-off.
That part was fine with me, Yoda went out the same way.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:04:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
went in with so many expectations
Don't you think you're setting yourself up for failure here? now, I don't really disagree with your problems with the movie, but i think that nowadays having a lot of expectations going into a movie is a bit silly.
epicluca ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:17:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I definitely caught myself offguard, but with my confidence after TFA I thought surely they couldn't get this one wrong (and they didn't) but it just didn't feel right to me.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:29:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
โFrom the moment...โ wasnt that like, 2/3 of the way into the movie?
ALSO why was Holdo just a Professor Umbridge knockoff for an hour?
I agree with everything except for this. We only get interactions with her through Poe, who is our "hero".. but in her eyes hes a brash insubordinate that not only defied the direct order of his general (Leia) but also got resistance fighters and their whole bombing squadron destroyed. As a war leader theres nothing more destructive than a subordinate who cant follow orders. Shes became the leader of rebellion after Leia was knocked out of action. And in any military operation right or wrong you stick to the mission. No matter if YOU think its wrong. If every solider deicided to act on their own it would be a disastor.. and Poe WAS wrong.. if it wasnt for him just doing his job Finn and Rose wouldnt have left the ship and they would have gotten away scott free. She was already willing to sacrifice herself to let the others escape.
A commanding officer doesnt need to explain her plans to those under her, she tells them to man their posts and trust her.
epicluca ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 12:01:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To continue, however, I think this film was sort of neccessary. It bridges the "old" Star Wars with the new. TFA was a fan service to restore fan faith in the series, and now everyone is back on board after this dismal prequel trilogy they are ready to dip their toe in the water of a new formula, not just the same old that we had in the great but generic TFA. When IX comes out and the whole new generation of Disney Star Wars movies has properly kicked off, I think people will respect TLJ as a lesser evil of a movie, the true start of the new set of movies. I'm confident with JJ returning for IX, but not sure about the writer, Chris Terrio (who helped write Justice League and Batman vs Superman)
roblobly ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 13:28:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
i think we should not defend a movie with "it was necessary", that is a bad sign.
epicluca ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:42:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean yeah, it's shit to wait 2 years for what was essentially a filler movie, but I'm excited for the new franchise to actually kick off without the wait of the old films before it.
But that isnโt an excuse for it being shit though. It could have been as good if not better than TFA and still have accomplished all the things youโre saying it did. It did not have to be disappointing.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:42:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought Rian Johnson was doing the script for Episode 9?
MadLuky6 ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 21:23:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I will be hated for this opinion. I don't like this movie. I facepalmed about 5 or 6 times. Everybody was angry how TFA was stealing from old movies. This one. No. YES!!! And maybe even more or it's more obvious. So many jokes. Like is this a family comedie? Traitor. Said 1000 times. Deus ex machina used about 6 times. Dialogues from The Room (Rose after saving Finn). And I could go on but my english is not that good and it will be hard for me to explain what I'm trying to say. My verdict is 2.5/10 Loved Benicio, some CGI, couple of gags and the last fight scene.
On one hand, I liked how it redeemed much of the lack of originality in TFA with many beautiful set pieces those are highly Star Wars-worthy (red salt is gorgeous!). One the other hands, there were too many issues with the film as another Star Wars entry:
Poor worldbuilding. The whole film revolves around a small group of Rebels in a pretty short time, while we are clueless about the rest of the galaxy. Too few new lores and planets were explored. Seriously, these films are making the prequels looking better and better.
Too few things happened. Poe, Finn and Leia barely underwent any remarkable character arc. Its impact on the current overarching plot feels too insignificant. There was change in leadership in The First Order, Rey met Luke and left, and the Rebels .... were still around in the end and will come back strong (again), I guess?
Cringeworthy and extremely inappropriate jokes. I freaking detest these in MCU and now they are creeping into Star Wars. Like stop it already, Disney.
Deus ex machina, lazy writings and convenient accidents. Leia suddenly rose back from the dead in vaccumn space and flew back to her ship herself? WTH? Of course things could always be explained by "the Force" and other divine intervention, but it doesn't make it any convincing or good writing. The encounter with Benecio del Toro's character is also an annoying convenient accident, IMO.
An entirely pointless (mis)adventure of Finn and Rose.
Snoke's anticlimatic departure. Someone who could manipulate the Force to form telepathic connection between people on different sides of the galaxy and could not foresee his apprentice's plot? Meh. Also, RIP fan theories. Furthermore, this makes the emotionally unstable and easily manipulated Kylo Ren the forefront leader of the First Order, entirely undermining their prowess in the upcoming entries.
Again, it reeks of ESB's vibes. There were also borrowed notes from RotJ. Not TFA-godawful, but I'm pretty sick of these deja vu.
Not too bad, probably because of the incredibly low bar set by the horrible TFA, but I didn't feel well-satisfied either. This entry might be worthy of a watch for pretty much everyone, but reception will undoubtedly be divided and bipolar.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:39:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
... I think people are losing their minds.
It is not a perfect movie, there are weird bits, but the Prequels were poorly acted, poorly written drivel held together by lightsaber fight/raves and "comedy" droids, gungans and tie ins.
akman16 ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 22:28:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rose : "The military industrial complex is bad ,mkay?"
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 22:41:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Disney: Instead let's all sing along to the media conglomerate complex
retapes ยท 318 points ยท Posted at 14:42:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Boy oh boy this was bad.
The second Poe begins throwing grade-school pranks at Hux I knew this was gonna go south. Comedy at points of drama is a really powerful way to completely destroy any dramatic tension (which is basically rule one of what not to do in any writing handbook). Hux, who has risen through a galactic organisation of incredible sophistication - who has grown to lead thousands of men and women - is unable to understand that he's being made fun of - or even more than that - basic operation of a war machine. All of a sudden, he isn't scary, or smart, or clever, he's just there - the admiral of a fleet with one of the most sophisticated death machines ever made but can't work out if he should aim 600 of his 600 cannons at the big ship, or maybe aim 300 of the 600 at the other ships too. And why wouldn't you be scanning for escape ships, given that's literally the only way the Rebels would leave the wallowing cruiser?
This film is like watching a 3 hour long sci-fi themed music video with no music. Staggeringly beautiful scenes, VFX and production design lift up what are basically bits of terrible Star Wars fan fiction. There is no tension, nothing makes sense - on a character and plot level.
The fact that the plot of this movie only exists because the same people who can use lightspeed haven't invented a speed between "really slow" and "lightspeed" is so laughable that I felt embarrassed when evil lackey #56 had the shameful task of explaining why they couldn't shoot the ship right in front of them. "Because, uh, the shields are on, and they're out of range of our cannons (300m range with a firing arc resembling a catapult) and they have to run out of fuel so that they are really close and then we can shoot them, but until then we just sort of follow along next to them instead of sending out more fighters to board them, uh, like when Kylo Ren basically flew through the ship completely fucking it up, uh".
Nevermind the issues actual Star Wars fans have with lore and other backstory - as a film fan this film had nothing beyond production design. Why did the characters land their ship on the beach at the Casino? Why not park it so not to draw attention to themselves? Why did the irritating old-lady alien need to be fighting someone while she spoke to them? Why was Po not executed for mutiny against the entire fleet? Why did every single character - whether in the Order or with the Rebels - never show a single ounce of actual military training? Gee, it's a good thing that Kylo somehow managed to salvage an inexplicably niche siege cannon from his entirely shattered and destroyed fleet in order to transport it down to the mining colony which has a single giant door.
Even worse is that no single part of the film - set in a stunning series of environments and worlds - ever explain any of them. Nothing gets a name or explanation. Hoth was Hoth, Tatoine was Tatoine. Now we have salt planet and monte carlo planet. It's like any sort of political gamesmanship has been replaced by single sentence explanations for things AFTER THEY HAPPEN.
"We are evacuating but there is a mining planet where we have an empty base that's very well armored and we will go there because they can't see our small escape craft!" What???? Why not use the escape craft and just leave? Why did you bomb them? Why did the bombs have to fall down? Could you just shoot them at it?
Benicio Del Toro is a lovable rogue obsessed with money, who then relents and shows a trace of warmth when he returns Rose's necklace (one of the few touching moments in the film). Then he completely annihilates his character development by betraying them. Why give the necklace back at all? Wait, why were they even on the ship at all, when their actions had zero consequence? Why not just insert some boundaries for the plot, and then use them to buy tension? Why tell us the mine had no other escapes, and then immediately escape out of the back?
It felt like the entire movie was trimmed down to one line per scene: "We have to go full speed!"/"You have good in you!"/"Take this to save this."/"Take that chrome dome!" Nobody refers to anything within the rich universe of Star Wars itself, beyond generalisations and incredibly irritating anachronisms ("Godspeed!" in a world with no god). You have the incredible richness of the entire Star Wars universe and you can't at least fit your basic-ass exposition into some form of Star Wars theme?
The endless "comedy" in this stripped all drama out of it at all.
Stormtroopers - the original space gestapo - are now brainless props to be bumped into by droids. They're incapable of doing anything beyond standing on parade and dying in fire (literally).
Entire loading bay of prize and talented Rebel pilots are entirely incinerated but lol look at the droid cartwheeling through the air with trill of beeps and boops. Luke sees Leia for the first time in decades and manages to make a comment about her hair.
Can someone give the Rebels a basic lesson in military tactics?
When you're besieged, don't fly out and try and blow the enemy up with inferior numbers in totally open ground. How about also having some strict chain of command instead of tutting every time a psycho "flyboy" mutinies and tries to take over your ragtag band of morons? Every single action taken by both "militaries" was a punch-and-judy show of dumb and dumber, where cutting edge military tactics is lining up your stuff and then making them go forward.
So many dumb story decisions. It's amazing. Finn needs to try and crash into the center of the cannon (not sure why given not a single vehicle the Order brought with them could have fit in the mine), Leia needed to be resurrected 3 times over (presumably to die of old age off screen) including her survival in deep space, beloved Admiral Akbar dies off-screen and instead Holdo gets a dramatic death (because apparently autopilot and turning a ship around are too complex to do without someone loitering in the bridge of the ship).
The Millennium Falcon has to have a scene where it's piloted like a minecart through some narrow underground area while tiny and nimble enemy fighters smash into everything.
Even worse is that the reviewers are making it out like this is anything approaching 50%+ on Rotten Tomatoes, when placed alone this would be something around 30% on a good day. Be aware that this film makes John Carter From Mars look like an actual film (with plot, characters, scenes with more than one line of dialogue). It even makes Jupiter Ascending look inventive.
I think the reason my rant is so long is that this film also manages to spend far too much time (which is basically any time at all away from the plot) trying to hamfist some incredibly lame political message in. I do not care either way politically, but to have DISNEY of all companies try and preach about how evil the corporate 1% are in this franchise (the same company that issues legal threats if anyone didn't toe the line on their release schedule) given their history for basically press-ganging and blocking reviewers for even a whiff of a negative review is so grossly cynical it's actually more evil than anything Hux and his bumbling fools manage to do the entire film.
It's also incredibly long because I feel like the reviewers watched a totally different film. The absolute fact that not a single reviewer has torn this apart (and there is about 15 things per scene that'll raise your eyebrows or make you shake your head) is really worrying, and gives you a pretty good idea that either a) every single otherwise good reviewer suddenly loves terrible films or b) the Disney juggernaut monopoly is able to scare everyone into compliance.
In 2-3 months time (once Disney's release schedule has made them billions), everyone will suddenly talk about this like the monumental film-making dumpster fire it was.
The most genuine moment and performance for me was when the nun toads had their wheelbarrow smashed and their look of shocked disappointment mirrored my face the entire film.
The only thing that'd get me back in the cinema for another Star Wars outing would be Alfonso Cuarรณn directing a Knights of the Old Republic trilogy - but that'd actually be a film with a plot, script, sensible scale and human drama, and much less good at selling "crystal critters" to 5 year olds.
[deleted] ยท 45 points ยท Posted at 20:54:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What made this movie truly bad was how none of the characters' choices mattered.
Kylo Ren has to make a choice of whether or not to fire at Leia. He chooses... ah, never mind, someone else did it anyway (and then she does the Mary Poppins thing, so it didn't matter).
Should Luke burn the Jedi tree or not? Making his mind up, struggling with the implications... and bam there's Yoda blowing it up anyway (but Rey removed the books, so it didn't really matter).
[deleted] ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 00:35:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 00:39:14 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What I don't get is why Yoda didn't just materialize into Snoke's flying wing and destroy it, now that ghosts can use crazy force powers.
Fnhatic ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 03:43:40 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I love how the 'miniature Death Star' is also aimed at the midpoint of the door and has this enormous beam like 100 feet wide and it just makes a man-size hole at the base.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 11:28:48 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's like the production team ran out of computers.
bedbugsex ยท 111 points ยท Posted at 14:52:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The most genuine moment and performance for me was when the nun toads had their wheelbarrow smashed and their look of shocked disappointment mirrored my face the entire film.
Actually even that was character assassination for the sake of comedy. Rey nearly killed these people giving her hospitality and gives zero fucks.
stabbybit ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 01:27:06 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nah man, she looks over the edge with a look of contrition.
The real problem with that scene is that some nimrod thought a good way to finish an establishing scene for Rey and her affinity with the Force was physical comedy.
It's basically the same thing as if, after Luke fails, Yoda lifts up the X-Wing out of the swamp, leading to a moment of realization and change for Luke as he begins to contemplate the true power of the Force and understand that his doubts are his biggest limitation... and then Yoda plops it down, splashing Luke and R2D2 with mud.
This is pretty much everything I've been trying to articulate.
jack3d-- ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 06:10:04 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is the best review of the film I have seen.
[deleted] ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 16:45:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"Godspeed!" in a world with no god
I agree with most of your criticisms but this is a weird one. Han says, "Then I'll see you in hell!" in Empire. Did that bother you too?
retapes ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 00:46:51 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Good point. Honestly I don't think that bothered me purely because that line in Empire was among lots of other actual dialogue. I felt like every single line in TLJ was bad and pulled me out of it.
"Chrome dome."
"If they move, stun em."
That fridge magnet philosophy reply that Holdo gives to Po when he asks what the plan was.
The other issue I have is that surely the "Godspeed" of the Star Wars universe is "may the force be with you". Which actually reminds me of that other toe-curlingly cringey moment where Holdo and Leia (who are meant to be efficient, highly intelligent and effective military commanders) have that "no you go first!" moment....
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:29:38 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I must say I felt the same. The moment she said it I was like wahhht? It felt out of place, Han saying hell didnโt maybe itโs the delivery or the scenario surrounding it but like another comment said she should have referenced the force Godspeed in that universe is Midichlorianspeed.
In 2-3 months time (once Disney's release schedule has made them billions), everyone will suddenly talk about this like the monumental film-making dumpster fire it was.
Disney Has Star Wars Plans Into The 2030s
Oh baby
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:38:40 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nothing gets a name or explanation
Both planets were named. Mas gives them the name of the casino planet, and the other one is named as the mining planet. I don't recall what they were right off, but they were both named.
Nothing gets a name or explanation. Hoth was Hoth, Tatoine was Tatoine. Now we have salt planet and monte carlo planet.
To be fair, they both have names, we just dont have the same level of exposure to get those names into your brain.
The Casino was on Canto Bight, and the salt planet is Crait.
And how much explanation is really required? Hoth is ice, tatooine is desert, Crait is salt, Canto Bight is upper class.
I think they got enough criticism for Jakku being just another tatooine so you end up getting little niche planets like this just to avoid being copies of established planets
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:58:57 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree a lot with what you said, but the โGodspeedโ Anachronism was not jarring at all. There are religions in Star Wars, surely they have manifested in language at some point.
[deleted] ยท 237 points ยท Posted at 12:11:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
One thing that this movie utterly lacked was a sense of grandeur and majesty, aside from the all too short lightsaber scenes. Basing a lot of the story around a tiny number of Rebel ships was a dumb move, and the two new planets were either too Earth-like or generic, I think Disney hates worldbuilding
[deleted] ยท 191 points ยท Posted at 13:51:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
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jupzi ยท 41 points ยท Posted at 16:36:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
absolutely agree, the movie has so much potential and george lucas' star wars is what got us all hooked, even as a minor role i feel that he would add so much.
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 17:03:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Yeah, Clone Wars was absolutely brilliant. That's what you get when you combine Lucas with a good director. Same thing with Empire and RotJ. Disney missed out here by not listening to the guy
Oh yea, like the desert planet, the water planet, the city planet, the ice planet, the jungle moon, the swamp planet?
[deleted] ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 17:08:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
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[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 00:46:50 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:50:37 on February 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Happened to come across this comment and thought I'd say in the old canon Kamino wasn't always covered in water and the event that caused that happened quite late in its history, so the Kaminoans had a chance to evolve before everything got wet
There are no examples off the top of my hat because Scifi fantasy movies of the past were mostly terrible. Maybe Dune. But that series didn't have the same mass appeal. And it was based on a book series which is kinda cheating.
Star Wars' big draw was the story and the few hints of a glorious jedi past that worked so well exactly because they were just hints. I don't think the really stereotypical planets did anything positive for SW.
Jay-Em ยท 43 points ยท Posted at 14:40:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But at the same time, Empire Strikes Back operates on a very small scale. You start on Hoth, then you have Han and Leia being chased from the Empire while Luke is on Dagobah with Yoda. Finally they all meet up in the same city. Yet it undoubtably works.
[deleted] ยท 54 points ยท Posted at 15:40:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Its funny that so much happens in those scenes while The Last Jedi was pretty uneventful at times
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 23:21:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The problem is that their is no payoff.
The whole casino/Finn storyline leads nowhere.
Rey doesn't really learn shit from Luke. Ren/Ben just goes back to being evil cause he was dumped by a girl. Rey also just gives up on him real fucking quick.
The whole Poe plot leads nowhere. Leia almost dying leads nowhere, she just comes back an hour later and that's it.
That evil BB8 had no purpose on the movie. It was del Toro that sold them. Evil BB8 did nothing. And that motherfucker is in the poster. Cause gotta sell toys. (I'm not even going to talk about the overdone cute bird thing).
Snoke was just a plot device. And general Hux is a bitch to everyone.
And don't get me started on Phasma. The movies would stay completely unchanged if her character didn't exist.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:41:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I 100% agree. I was really disappointed in Finn's story because apart from the scene where he tries to run he could have been any other character. Built on none of his development from TFA
Jay-Em ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:44:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think one problem is that what we're watching in TESB, while important to us as viewers because we care about the characters, doesn't have much meaning on a galactic scale. It doesn't hugely matter to the Rebel movement whether Han and Leia escape. Whereas in TLJ, we're watching the entirety of the Resistance being chased down, and presumably if the First Order catch them, that's it for the galaxy. The stakes are way higher, so maybe the uneventfulness is more dissonant.
Asiriya ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 00:20:45 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's lots of things that break disbelief in this film. Poe attacks a ship single handedly. They stop to talk to him, patch him through to the commanding officer as though they're best friends and then make a joke of it. He blows up dozens of turrets as if they're explosive barrels. He dodges hundreds of fighters. A cruiser avoids five Star Destroyers for hours.
At least with ESB it wasn't easy. Han was able to find them moments to ease off the tension, but then something would go wrong, usually because.Chewie is a terrible mechanic (and no one listens to 3PO) and they'd have to face the consequences, and Han would have to out wit or out fly his enemies. And that's character building. Theyve worked hard and it's still all gone wrong.
Here the premise is just stupid. Ren and two TIE fighters kill the whole Resistance command and destroy all fighters in a single attack run, why wouldn't they keep that up and destroy the ship??
How can there be time to go to a different planet, how can they not be stopped by Snoke or someone else? Why can't they jump the ship above Coruscant and scatter their people to meet up elsewhere? Etc etc etc.
One thing I noticed, no one is proactive really. Things are happening to the characters but they're not really in control. Sometimes that's the point, and people are saying it is with Finn and Rose, but it doesn't stop the film feeling unsatisfying when everything they try to do is blocked. Compare that to Han above.
Empire feels like a small story, but taking place in the middle of a much bigger war. Thereโs other stuff happening and it all takes place with them trying to regroup with the rest of the fleet.
In TLJ the entire fleet is 3 ships of in the corner of the galaxy and thatโs it.
Jay-Em ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 19:49:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah exactly. I think the issue is that in TLJ, we're expected to believe that the entirety of the galactic conflict is this slow pursuit of some Resistance carriers, and somehow the First Order has the rest of the galaxy subdued. It doesn't make much sense.
What should have happened IMO is that the First Order blowing up Hosnian Prime sparked all out war with the New Republic. The Last Jedi's story could have taken place in much the same way, with the First Order hunting down the former Resistance members in particular because of their links to Luke and Rey.
Instead we get a silly contrived Empire v. Rebellion rehash that undermines the resolution of ROTJ. It also makes Palpatine's feat of building up the power to seize control of the galaxy less remarkable, when Snoke is capable of doing it out of nowhere.
Yeah but those worlds did not exist before. Here there are no new worlds. Even the jedi planet feels boring
Minscota ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:23:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think the biggest mistake disney made with the IP is throwing out the books. The books were far better than anything they have done with the IP.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:37:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I would have preferred the First Order to have been almost totally beaten by the attack on Starkiller Base, and to have the remnants become a small group of terrorists, like the Rebellion in the original trilogy.
Fakayana ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:44:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Eh, I don't think that's the problem with the movie. It's okay for a smaller scope story focusing on the characters. I think us fans just got too overhyped (especially with Rian Johnson's insistence to stay away from any spoilers) and expected a bigger grander story than this. I'm pretty surprised that the AT-AT battle was the climax of the movie, I thought it would be closer to Hoth's role in Empire Strikes Back.
I think in time people who disliked it now will warm up to it, though.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:41:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But Empire was a smaller scope story focusing on characters but still has that sense of grandeur
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:33:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
the two new planets were either too Earth-like
So like the OT then?
[deleted] ยท 52 points ยท Posted at 21:24:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Why on earth was this edited like a trailer? They never gave scenes a chance to breathe, it was jumping all over the place.
It was most egregious during the Rey/Kylo/Snoke sequence.
Was waiting for someone to mention this. Scenes just kept transitioning so quickly when it felt like they could have gone on for just a bit longer. Felt very jarring.
Dosca ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:08:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They chucked a Godzilla (2014) with that bullshit. STAY IN ONE SCENE. Why the fuck did they fuck with any sense of tension by returning to plot lines that were significantly less interesting than everything happening between rey and kylo
I'm not really a Star Wars fan so nothing they did with the original characters would upset me...but I still didn't like this movie.
It's just not good, seems to suffer from bloated over-complicated stretched plot many modern blockbusters suffer from, like Pirates of the Caribbean sequels or Transformers sequels. People double crossing each other, or just expecting to be double crossed but in the end they're not, I don't know seems straight out of a pirate movie. It did nothing for me, it seems to have been equally as useless to the plot at large. Which I don't really understand these movies should have simple plots , strong characters and big action scenes. I mean it seems like a winning formula
I'm not sure if this was due to the fact that Disney now own both companies but this really felt like a Marvel film. The humour in TFA seemed much more natural, and more like what people in those situations could actually say. In TLJ, it kinda felt like the entire scene was written around the punchline of the jokes. The whole film, for me, didn't have the same sense of wonder and amazement that I've had from watching it's predecessors. Like I said before, it feels like they've just made a comic book film
Oh man Plasma's death scene was the worst offense in that aspect. Huge baddie falls to her death in a fiery inferno, and it's bookended by a terrible one-liner from Finn and "need a lift?"
When was Phasma a huge baddie? I've seen her being hyped so many times, but she wasn't really that in the movies, so I'm not sure were the idea comes from. She has been even less of a bad ass than Boba Fett ever was and he died in a joke scene where Han accidentally knocked him down the Sarlacc pit.
TFA had some out of place humour too. Just not nearly as bad as this one. This just refused to let the dramatic tension build before it would ruin it with a wise crack.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:03:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You know how when there's a quiet moment in a film theatre, and people begin (or don't stop) crinkling wrappers, as if they're uncomfortable with the lack of levity, and want to appear nonchalant? VIII is a film for such morons.
I recently rewatched Guardians 2 and the forced humor was much more noticeable on the second watch. Though I do think it's still a pretty good movie, as it let its serious moments have time to... well, affect us.
That was a pretty gringy moment. Not the fact she survived the strike, but the implementation should have been better. Show the hit from her perspective, so we can see her clearly preparing for the feat. Then have everyone blown out of the bridge while she moves herself back to the ship. Have subtle but clear visible damage on her from the stunt.
Haven't managed to watch it yet but that doesn't surprise me
TheSums ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 12:52:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Oddly I found the humour in TFA just as
Marvel-ish as this film. I think both films have problem with humour in serious moments, and thatโs a problem Marvel movies consistently have as well.
But I think it works a bit more here, because TLJ is definitely trying to do something new, whereas TFA is trying to be a traditional film, but is filled with more modern humour.
But Disney already owned both Lucasfilm and Marvel when TFA came out? Maybe this was the director's doing rather than Disney because you say JJ didn't commited the same sins
Building up for a crossover at the end of IX I guarantee
Lundorff ยท 117 points ยท Posted at 15:58:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I never thought I would say this, but I currently have no desire to see the last movie. TLJ was so poorly written and executed in almost every aspect that my passion for this era has completely vanished. There is no longer any tension, mystery or threat in a galaxy far, far away, and it is too late to fix it now. They can not make emoboy Kylo dangerous and turning Rey dark is too late and both Han, Leia and Luke are now gone. Meh.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 23:02:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I dont see any need for the last movie at all. This movie should have been two movies, the ending made perfect sense for movie 9 and no sense at all for the second part of a trilogy.
axxxman ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:51:03 on January 9, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
The worst one was the facetime forcetime between Rey and Ren, where Ren was shirtless. Those moments are meant to be dramatic and tense, and instead she's like "can you put a shirt on please?" which just completely kills the moment
Argyrius ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 20:05:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Those Snokecalls between them were supposed to be tense and dramatic, but in my theatre people just burst out laughing (and not in a good way) at the ridiculousness of the shirtless Ren scene.
smoha96 ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 20:55:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
On the other hand, we now know that Kylo Ren doesn't have an eight-pack.
Jezamiah ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 00:46:27 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't mind references that I don't get, but I'd think that something that is so front and center like this would be thought through a bit better? Most of this movie's audience don't even know what SNL is (I only know what it is because of reddit)
How was the last season of GoT fan-servicey? Are you one of the idiots who didn't like that season 7 payed off everything they've been building up to for 6 years?
I have a friend in the industry (who doesnโt) and he said that studios like Marvel and Lucas are keeping things light โ even expectantly heavy movies like TLJ and Civil War โ because of the climate we live in right now.
People want escapism. Would explain why BR2049 didnโt do so well and why Coco is breaking Pixar records.
Basically, audiences want levity and an escape from the living hell that is life, what with Net Neutrality dying, mass killings, the economy, ACHA, and other political and economical sore spots.
Which is funny, because Star Wars started the opposite way. At the time, movies were all dark and gritty, and Star Wars was a fun movie that went against the trend.
Omegle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:39:09 on December 17, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
someone got the stupiud joke writer from the iron man movies to shine here
Spawn3323 ยท 116 points ยท Posted at 14:27:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There were a few moments like that. The scene where the AT-ATs unload on Luke and when the dust settles he brushed his shoulder off....
LDKCP ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 20:50:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There was no dust! It seemed silly, but it was a hint.
[deleted] ยท 65 points ยท Posted at 17:34:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But think of the kids! We need to hit those beats because focus groups and research tells us that a blockbuster script needs a joke every 1.356 minutes!
I hate marvel/disney humor but I actually loved that moment, made me laugh out loud.
nommas ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 21:26:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I didn't mind that. Got a few laughs in the cinema I saw it in. I thought it was a fun little moment that shows the old cocky Luke from the original trilogy. Maybe it wasn't appropriate for the new wise master Luke, but it was just a small gesture with a lot of personality.
The scene where the AT-ATs unload on Luke and when the dust settles he brushed his shoulder off....
I actually thought that was amusing.
The scene that drove me nuts was the one where Rey is first practicing with the lightsaber. You're undercutting that drama if Luke makes a comment about his little helpers not liking Rey all that much (which by itself makes sense and is an appropriate moment of levity for that scene), then ten minutes later in a serious scene that's supposed to be helping to establish Rey and her affinity with the Force and her control with a lightsaber, she's cutting through a rock and then it falls down a hill to smash one of the helpers' carts as they push it along who then look up at her with irritated body language and she looks over the cliff in an "Oops, Sorry" expression.
I liken it to "What if when Luke fails at raising his X-Wing out of the swamp, Yoda does it, showing him the power of the Force, reaching this moment of realization and change for Luke... and then Yoda plops it down and splashes R2D2 and Luke with mud. Cut back to Yoda who shrugs with a wry smile."
Yeah it never lands. You become instantly aware that someone at a desk with a pen is purposely writing this character to be made fun of, so the jokes have edge anymore.
rebb1t ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:28:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So funny, like donโt u hate when ur on hold too. Like cmon that funny right, right ??????
Corican ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 13:49:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think if he had a legitimate problem hearing Hux, and not just taking the piss, it would have played better as a joke.
It screamed "red flag" and I suspected Marvel movie from then on.. :/
Mamsies ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:57:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think it started well then the joke was just run into the ground. The idea of Hux making this big dramatic speech about how he will destroy the Resistance then Poe mocking him by pretending that he couldn't hear him is quite funny, but it really dragged out way too long.
That tends to be my problem with most Disney/Marvel humour. The jokes are funny, but they're dragged out for too long.
skuppo ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:27:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So bad, why do they have the concept of being on hold in space? Is there a call centre on Dagobah we don't know about?
Why did we see the ironing scene? This is Star Wars, there's no time for that shit. And when the purple haired Leia stand in says "God speed", there's no God in this universe, that shouldn't be a phrase!
The script was so bad, it felt like it was written by someone who'd never seen a Star Wars movie.
Iandian ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:05:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This definitely made me realise that the reason I can't warm to the new films is due to it being too Disney. Too many Jack Sparrow moments and attempts at building Avengers banter. It doesn't work at all and it pretty cringeworthy.
Also how tf they gonna do my boy Ackbar like that.
[deleted] ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 22:59:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Things I was looking forward to going into this movie:
Finding out about the Knights of Ren.
Finding out who Snoke is.
Finding out who Rey's parents were.
I am disappointed.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 01:05:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, it had a real 'cant be arsed' feel about that. Considering how it was built up, it was a slap in the face for fans of TFA
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:19:21 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But you did find out who Reys parents were
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 05:52:35 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So heโs a salty fanboy who is upset the movies plot and ideas didnโt go out like he planned?
There is nothing wrong with the plot, or characters dying.
The humour and the casino part are the only real downfalls.
You're really confident in your opinion, aren't you? I don't know man, maybe try to just ask him why he feels the way he does about the movie first, and then change your mind or carry on as you are based on whether he makes a compelling argument or not.
Also, pointing out thematic incoherence is not the same as criticising a story for not doing exactly what you wanted. Surprises, twists or subversions aren't automatically good just by virtue of being there. Deconstructionism can be good, but this movie's approach to deconstructionism is not different from the DCEU's. In a more subtle way, it's been a problem for the series since ROTJ. But after the way TLJ has fumbled this new trilogy's narrative, it honestly doesn't look like it's ever going to get any better.
I came out of the cinema after episodes I and II feeling they were uneven but with some awesome moments. I really liked episode III.
Episode VII is my favourite ever cinema experience. Just saw the film today... ouch. As others have commented it feels like a Marvel film. I was prepared for a let down but I think this was a 5/10 film at best and the worst film in the franchise :(
The plot was all over the place and I'm struggling to see where they're headed next. How does this film serve as the middle of a trilogy?
Nawpo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:39:53 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Here's what I don't understand, I disliked TFA on day one, and from what I've heard (I was gonna go tonight but I decided fuck it) TLJ just continues the same cringey humor I disliked, the same lack of context and storytelling instead boiling every new character to a single sentence backstory and making the OT characters huge jackass failures right before killing them.
What's the difference between TFA and TLJ? I see them as completely similar in terms of plot and execution.
[deleted] ยท 134 points ยท Posted at 11:28:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just got out of it and wow pretty bummed, so much stuff was shoehorned in there it felt and the comedic moments were far too often. It was actually pretty cringeworthy and bordering on annoying when those moments kept occurring. Clearly the porgs have been solely placed for Disney's latest "cute" toy for the summer. I enjoyed that fight in Snokes throne room though, bit disappointed they kept Leia alive over Luke too (that flying scene though, wowzers)
nashist ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 12:34:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
and bordering on annoying
half way through the movie I was already grabbing my hairs and asking to make it stop
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 13:02:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Knew it was coming from the opening with Hux & Poe
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:13:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I remember watching The Force Awakens when it came out, and wincing at Poe's talk line. Thank Satan it didn't go overboard, and 80% of the humour worked well. VIII, on the other hand, was too irreverent by far.
lucoin ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:39:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
you can actually leave a cinema during a screening.
nashist ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:45:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I know, and how sad is it that the first time I actually wanted to was on a saga I love.
Have you forgotten about How much comedy the old movies have? Have you forgotten about the ewoks? Basically living teddy bears.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 13:05:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sure I havenโt forgotten the comedy in the OT, Ewoks, Solos commentaries and quips between chewie and just about everything, yoda, I loved it. The Last Jedi unfortunately makes those special moments of comic relief something to dread for in my opinion, having them in every second scene was very unnecessary I think.
I didn't find it to be that often really. Not compared to other movies these days like the Marvel stuff.
[deleted] ยท 128 points ยท Posted at 13:01:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Uh hated it. Cringy humor. Too many things didn't make sense. The villains aren't threatening, they're incompetent and ridiculed the entire time. Finn's side adventure was a waste of screentime. Kylo and Rey were great for about 2/3s of the film. Climactic "battle" was lame af. I'm disappointed, pissed off and dead inside.
Translation : stay the same, but not the same, but the same.
I've seen people argue about lobbed shots in space.
Like, dude. It's Star Wars. Nothing about space battles makes actual sense. They literaly put a glass window with all their officers in it so that a single fighter can blow the whole officer deck. If it didn't shock you in 19 whatever, it shouldn't now.
This is set 30 years in the future? There has been peace for the past 30 years because of what they did?
[deleted] ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 18:41:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:23:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Naah. The EU was pretty good and had some good stuff that coulda been adapted. But Disney decided to retcon all of it for... whatever is going on here.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:34:18 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thrawn Trilogy films would have been pretty cool.
DNamor ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:02:00 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yup, that's my issue with TFA and it's only been made worse here.
Love it or hate it, at least the EU setup that the good guys were successful. Here they did nothing, everything happens again and they all just die old and bitter without achieving anything.
The Kylo Ren character was fleshed out more by adding more backstory, this makes the characters motivations more interesting.
The visuals are really amazing, I think this is one of the nicest looking SW films.
Bad:
The writing in the story felt convenient at times, there was always some magic way to escape from a situation no matter how bad it was, the most blatant example being when Finn and Rose escape execution.
The new Rose character was very bland and I felt like every scene which included her slowed down the film.
So many wasted opportunities... Everything that TFA set up, Snoke, Phasma, the Knights of Ren, arguably Rey's origins was just thrown out the window.
The Leia Mary Poppins scene was fucking horrible in my opinion and really sets the tone for the type of shit that they pull off in this movie.
Disney is fucking with this movie badly, and you can notice, with its Marvelesque humor and cute characters made to sell merchandise.
Conclusion:
To my taste its the worst of the Star Wars films (even worst than Ep 1). Heres to hoping they redeem themselves the next movie.
Lundorff ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:06:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Kylo Ren character was fleshed out more by adding more backstory, this makes the characters motivations more interesting.
Backstory yes, but he is now supposed to be the "big evil" in episode 9. Compare him to Vader & The Emperor and there is no contest. Whomever thought it was a great idea to make Kylo a hotheaded, unintelligent maniac should be fired. Vader was cruel but in a professional and balanced sorta way, and The Emperor was sinister and evil personified. Kylo is just fucking annoying.
This movie made me appreciate the predictability of TFA.
RzK ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 18:00:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
My biggest problem with the new films is that the world just doesn't feel alive to me... it doesn't feel real and lived in, I can't place my finger on why exactly that is. Maybe someone with similar feelings can explain better.
Even the prequels did a better job at making you feel like you're in an alive Star Wars universe, despite their flaws. And they didn't have to go "OH THIS IS STAR WARS YOU'RE WATCHING BTW" with references and crap... takes me out of it when they do that.
Disney hit the biggest jackpot ever with SW and they're obviously not interested in making a worthy 7,8 and 9. They just want to sell BB-8 Toys to kids while getting away with mediocrity. This is The Hobbit all over again, but with Star Wars.
ddd4175 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:58:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You know, I kinda get what you mean. The casino part was when I started to feel that "hey! This is star wars!" Until it just cuts back to the usual bits. Everything else feels too contained, too small.
I absolutely despised all the lame humour which brought the stoicism of characters like Kylo, Luke and to a lesser degree Rey into question.
I can't believe the scene with Poe at the start where he's trolling Hux, and the part where Kylo gives Hux the eye when he repeats to fire all lasers at Luke.. what the hell man
I appreciate the fact Rian Johnson tried to take risks and do things differently in a Star Wars movie, but I have to be honest and say not much paid off for me.
For the second film in a trilogy, I don't feel like I know any more than I did at the end of The Force Awakens. Who is Snoke? Where is the Republic? How did this whole conflict come to be in the first place?
There were things I definitely really enjoyed about the film, but these are essentially boiled down to certain moments rather than anything bigger or meaningful. When Rey and Kylo team up, cool scene, good visuals, exciting. But that's it. Nothing deeper. When Laura Dern light-speeds through the star destroyer, cool visuals, great moment, but she was only introduced an hour previously and I know absolutely nothing about her, so why should I really care? There are so many moments where I felt like that and it was just a pretty empty experience for me overall.
caliban- ยท 146 points ยท Posted at 15:06:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just got out of a screening in London. Wow - that was not good. At the same time formulaic and dull yet with really chaotic and out of place creative ideas. TFA was a fairly generic, servicable film, but this was something else entirely. I can't blame Rian Johnson though, what could he do? On one side you have people (rightfully) complaining about TFA being too committee produced, of lacking originality. On the other side you have that committee, Disney, breathing down your neck, forcing in toy merchandise (I don't believe his Puffin story for a minute) and silly Marvel humour and commercialism. Then you've got a bunch of pointless characters to cram in. All this while being a really interesting, creative film maker yourself. How could this be anything other than a mess?
What is really baffling me are the critic reviews. No way is this a 86 Metacritic film. Even though I didn't love TFA, I could accept the acclaim as it was coherent and well made. This just feels like I'm in a parallel universe to the critics.
[deleted] ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 16:34:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A lot of it is peer pressure and hob-knobbing because the film industry feeds itself and needs to hype its own business.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:46:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And also the backlash against those who say otherwise. People were being very dismissive about CNN and Variety (spoilers sucks), but now I've seen some already saying Variety's review is actually the one they agree the most.
Appreciate it. So far it's also the review I've agreed with the most.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 17:12:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
yeah disney films drive box office, especially star wars films, helps to keep theaters relevant. but critics by collaborating with disney are trying to stem the direction movies are going - to day and date at home streaming. critics sold themselves out with this movie.
What is really baffling me are the critic reviews. No way is this a 86 Metacritic film. Even though I didn't love TFA, I could accept the acclaim as it was coherent and well made. This just feels like I'm in a parallel universe to the critics.
This truly baffles me as well. This movie was entertaining, but it was not so well made that it can get an 80+ metacritic rating. Just no way
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 17:42:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I saw it with the critical adulation for the ANH copy that was TFA but it's apparent now: we live in the era of fake reviews.
What is really baffling me are the critic reviews. No way is this a 86 Metacritic film. Even though I didn't love TFA, I could accept the acclaim as it was coherent and well made. This just feels like I'm in a parallel universe to the critics.
Ofcourse not. Disney has enough money to pay for great reviews while the rest of the people are going to love it for the Star Wars brand alone. Christ, Disney banned the L.A. Times for a time on a bad review. Did people forget this already?
ammobox ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 17:03:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Bad review or investigation and story about Disney dealings in Anaheim?
Dutchy115 ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 17:24:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm so fucking happy that I've seen genuine intelligent criticism in the first discussion thread I stumbled across. The review scores had me worried it was just gonna be another dick sucking festival like the fan and critic reaction to TFA was.
I did not like this god damn film. I thought the Force Awakens was not bad but too safe and bland to be anything truly good, but I had to contend with the entire universe deep-throating it and dismissing all criticism as 'just hating it because it's popular'.
So I'm glad that's not the case here, at least so far.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:06:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Most critics are caitiff wretches, too scared to voice their own opinions, only heeding the pressure from professional peers and Internet hooligans.
ruhbuhjuh ยท 91 points ยท Posted at 12:59:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, boy. I loved parts of it. Reyโs storyline was the best part of the film by a mile. The Kylo/Rey Force conversations were interesting and different. The lightsaber scene where Kylo and Rey absolutely wreck shop is beautiful. Luke has a hero shot in front of some AT-ATs that is a stunner. The part where Laura Dern suicides herself at light speed was visually amazing. On a visual level, itโs really cool.
Mad respect to Rian Johnson for writing and directing and executing his very singular Star Wars vision and somehow managing to pull it off.
But. My god. It makes a lot of choices that range from questionable to bizarre to downright stupid. It undoes so much of the good work TFA set up. Kylo regressed as a character. Finn became the wise cracking, Ron Weasley sidekick. Snoke is a non-fucking-entity. Yoda showing up took me out of the film entirely. Leia surviving a missile and then force flying through space back to the ship. The entire casino scene wouldnโt have looked out of place in the damn prequels. It goes so, so overboard with the creatures that it becomes a distraction (fuck the porgs, honestly).
To me, it felt like Johnson just didnโt like some of TFA and decided to fuck it all away and do his own thing. Itโs a sequel in a trilogy that almost doesnโt advance the story in anyway, it effectively reboots it. Itโs a film made by a guy who is clearly in love with the originals and wanted to pay homage to them, but it doesnโt fit with the modern film-scape. TFA managed to balance the old and the new beautifully, it was a sequel to them while updating it for a new audience. Last Jedi is a regression.
They will start by having a time jump and sending off Leia. Poe will then become the leader of the Rebels, somehow learning from what happened here. They will send Rey out to learn from the stolen books and build the lightsaber, similar to Luke in Episode VI.
My bet is Kylo will basically become Vader and the First Order will conquer most of the galaxy. In IX it will be all about the Rebels making a final stand while Rey and Kylo, both more powerful, have a final confrontation. I almost hope there is not a cliche coming back to the light redemption, but as it is Disney, there may be.
To me, it felt like Johnson just didnโt like some of TFA and decided to fuck it all away and do his own thing.
I think you grossly overestimate how much say Johnson had in any of that. This is all Disney trying to rectify what they believe were the main issues with TFA.
I don't think so. Johnson has said many, many times that he essentially had full creative control over the film. Besides that, most of the script was written before TFA, and only slightly tweaked after TFA came out to include the TFA characters slightly more whilst cutting down on Johnson's new characters.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:17:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rey vs Kylo
Snoke and Luke are out of the picture so we don't have to worry about them pulling strings in the background. Poe will be the leader of the rebellion, with Leia having died at some point. Hux will be struggling to lead the First Order whilst keeping Kylo in check. That just leaves Finn, who honestly feels like dead wood.
I think they've set up Episode IX so that it can go in great direction but I don't like how they went about it.
Carrie Fischer Supermanโing (why didnโt she hold onto the table to begin with?)
Who was Snoke?
Hamfisted Monaco/rich people profit from war storyline.
Llama stampede.
How did the dice stay on the ground? And why would Leia leave them? Unless she knew he was fake and they were too, then why wouldnโt she start the evacuation?
The Jedi temple maidens.
The milking cow-dragon.
The fishing with a tooth on a 60 ft pole. How did he drag that up without the force?
That was the Phasma payoff?
Is BB8 going to get nerfed?
Is Chewie anything more than a chauffeur without Han?
When will they stop saying โDeath Star techโ? We get it.
Why follow the Ice-Eeveeโs? Follow the fucking draft. Did they have lighters a long time ago?
So Kylo just killed all his buddies from the Academy because he likes a girl?
Rose is a mediocre character that had too many serious moments put on her actress.
Just asking for Benicio-to-Collector fan fiction
How were they tracking the ship through hyperspace? I know the lead ship was for the Order but how on the Rebelโs side?
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 21:55:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm thinking at this point that Disney might have put that in certain countries where Star Wars wasn't as culturally ingrained as in the Anglophone countries + most of Europe.
Probably, there were no character bios on the version with Swedish subtitles.
[deleted] ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 00:45:59 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
One of the asian versions has subtitles with character bios when characters show up on screen.
The person posting here hasn't actually seen the movie, he saw a few clips posted online and is making a huge writeup about his "gripes" with the movie (without having seen it). Which is hilarious.
Iโm disappointed in the directing/writing of this movie. The overall story was fine but Jesus they screwed the pooch on execution. The cinematography had moments of greatness. The music was a little repetitive or inappropriately timed I felt. Acting was good for what they had to work with from the 5/6 carry overs from TFA. Secondary characters were hit or miss for me
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:42:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, the music was very abrupt sometimes. It took you out of the scene.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:06:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Who are you saying was tracking the ship on the Rebel side?
Jezawan ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 23:12:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
These are some of the most insignificant gripes I've read. What's wrong with the maidens and the big dragon with the tits? They were cool moments that helped build the world and expand the universe.
Also those dudes weren't the Knights of Ren? And even if they were, they attacked Kylo, what exactly was he gonna do?
Maidens were alright if they didnโt make it seem like Luke was a hermit first.
Dragon did not do any world building. It was 10 seconds of shit movie making.
Iโve been corrected on the Knights of Ren, but their weapons are similar to the TFA concept art
Jezawan ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 00:30:10 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm curious what you have against the tit dragons? I thought it was a fun little thing that showed Luke going about his daily life in an interesting way. Not sure how it could be classed as shit movie making?
I laughed, BY FAR, at TLJ more than any other film in the series. And its all thanks to Carrie Poppins. Seeing Leia supermaning through space was so cringy, that it went full circle into something so beautiful. I was weeping tears from laughing, my abdomen was aching so badly. I initially thought, this is almost impossibly stupid. But, I slowly realized that to cause me to have an uncontrollable visceral reaction like this, it was actually genius. Now it may have not gotten the intended reaction, but none the less I was now engaged fully to see what Disney approved stupidity was next. While this was their crowning achievement of cringe, there were plenty of other unintended humor that I quite enjoyed. From this moment on when some says Star Wars, my first initial thought won't be Luke staring off into a binary sunset, the Death Star trench run, Luke and Vader's exchange on Bispin, or the end of RotJ. No, this image will forever be burned into my head. Not even Fonzie himself could jump the shark this epically. 11/10
Minscota ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:30:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lots of schlock for sure. RLM guys are going to love this because of how awful it is, yet hilariously bad.
Minscota ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 16:52:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Same. This movie basically ruined all standing cannon about the jedi. Its fucking awful. We have light side force users, using dark side force abilities as force ghosts who cant interact with the real world.
To be fair, abilities aren't limited to a specific side of the force outside the video games. It's more about intent. Also, Yoda more so changes the weather.
That being said, I can't wait for the RLM video. When people talked about Leia flying I thought it was a bad description of her pulling herself to debris or something using the force. But oh my gooooood
Minscota ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:08:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In the books it was limited unless you were a grey jedi.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:34:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It jumped the ship.
[deleted] ยท 46 points ยท Posted at 22:05:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, in ESB the officers who took Tarkin's role were pretty hilarious, adding to their incompetence were the OG Vader quips. "Apology accepted, Captain Needa..." etc.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:28:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not the whole thing but definetly stained here and there. I mean BB8 saving them by controling an AT-ST?
MadLuky6 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:10:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wormtail of Star Wars franchise.
Edit: I loved his speech in TFA. So powerful and scary.
_Ishmael ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 17:20:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I hate to say it but I was kind of underwhelmed. TFA wasn't very original in its plot but I really liked the new characters, loved seeing the old ones, and overall it was just a really exciting film. TLJ just left me kind of cold. I'm not saying this to be controversial, I really wanted to like it.
schmeily2 ยท 405 points ยท Posted at 11:49:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm prepared for the epic downvotes, but I didn't rate this movie sadly.
It was far, far too similar to standard Disney/Marvel fare, and some of the humour moments ruined characters for me. For example Snoke.... to spend nearly two films building up his menace and pure dark side and power, to have him boop Rey on the back of the head with the lightsabre? Just no.
Killing him off also left an issue with me and who the main big bad will be. They've spent two films emphasising how horrifically flawed Kylo is in every aspect. Combat? He can be bested. Tactics? He can be manipulated or tricked. Patience? Combustible personality. We will now have to go through yet another film to build him up to a tangible threat to any of our heroes, more wasted screen time. What makes this more frustrating is I am a big fan of how they've handled his arc and really like him as a character, he is just nowhere near ready being the front face of the dark side. (The obvious lie about Rey's parents at the end may add some possibilities here I guess.)
The Leia revive-in-space scene was just.... ffs. What made this worse is the scene of her floating out the ship (assumed dead) from the explosion was beautifully shot and would have been a fitting end for her.
The things added in for blatant merchandising opportunities were grating.
It seemed a waste that the main goodies never met on screen to develop relationships. E.g. Rey and Finn, I loved their back and forth in Force Awakens and it is completely missing from this. Even Finn and Poe got very little time.
Finally... there was no lightsaber-on-lightsaber fight scene. For shame. As good as the Snoke-room fight with the elite Praetorian guards was, I wanted an epic face off!
A 5/10. It's not bad... but it isn't great. In no rush to see it again.
[deleted] ยท 65 points ยท Posted at 14:04:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
schmeily2 ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 14:47:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
At first I was okay with them. For one or two scenes they were alright like you say... then not only did they overdo them, but the ice-wolf/Glaceon ripoffs took it a step further and I'd had enough of the film by that point
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:40:34 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Tbh the humour written into TFA felt like it was straight out of the Disney Marvel films. I really dislike that they thought that kind of cheap humour was needed in a Star Wars film.
That might be part of it, but tbh I didn't feel like this had much humor after the start. It was more that plots just went nowhere and huge teases were just dropped without any explanation for how it fits together. The MCU - for the most part, until Dr Strange - managed to tell a tightly knit universe which worked quite cleverly, adding in prior heroes in past decades etc with shared actors managing the organization which branched it all etc. It's only in the recent few movies that it's begun to feel like they no longer have a branching connection and are beginning to rely on stupid coincidence to bring these people and events together.
theres no actual story or plot, its just style over substance. none of the decisions matter and the ones that are made are just retarded. the characters from the OT are completely unrecognizable and are making decisions that their actual characters never would.
[deleted] ยท 157 points ยท Posted at 13:15:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
schmeily2 ยท 41 points ยท Posted at 13:26:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Very well put.
I alluded to it in the Kylo-being-main-baddie comment, but where episode IX goes from here is so problematic.
It needs to establish a new threat already for the series.
It needs to weaken our leading hero who is far stronger than anything the dark side possesses we are aware of (or turn her to dark side, which is something I'd quite like).
It needs to work out what the hell it is doing with Finn beyond a sidequest puppet
It needs to stop introducing potentially cool characters and never using them, like Phasma.
The fan service is also an excellent point. I need to rewatch it to see if it was just me being cranky or not, but the first 15-20 minutes of Luke on the island just felt like a tickbox of responses to fan queries. What does he eat? Where does he sleep? How did he get there with no wreckage? The fish spearing pole scene.... why is that there? Why were the caretaker things there other than for purely comedic relief?
[deleted] ยท 40 points ยท Posted at 13:37:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Imagine race of training out Rey and Kylo and then later off going 2vs2, Luke vs Snoke Vs Kylo vs Rey. Hmm..
[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 19:55:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The man's a heretic. No respect for TFA, its popularity, and the mysteries it raised โ which, in the hands of a creative writer, could have been expanded and revealed in fascinating ways. I deeply resent The Last Jedi, for these
and all the aforementioned reasons.
Agree, but I would just like to add that Phasma was, besides new shiny color, never cool. IMO
baktiar77 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 16:07:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah probably some of the greatest special effects and music(and absence of music in certain scenes) Iโve seen, perhaps only bested by Dunkirk.
However the fucking plot was poorly executed. Some great ideas but zero creativity on solving the problems.
It seemed so weird that Rey who spend the first half of the movie convincing Luke to help the resistance just goes to visit Kylo with zero contingency plans all on
the whim that there might be a small glimmer of good in him in a couple of mins.
Also the number of times BB8 bails the protagonists out of trouble when theyโre about to be caught or killed is just a cheap plot device. I mean heโs great droid and all but come on.
The one thing I appreciated is that there were no bullshit love triangles or any other nonsense. Thank god, part of me feared for the worst.
Nzash ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:43:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Well said, I can't believe the movie is sitting at the rotten tomatoes score it has right now, it does the actual quality of it no justice.
Safe to say I fully agree with Mark Hamill when I remember him saying that he fundamentally disagreed with everything he read regarding Luke in the script of EP8. I disagree too.
I think it's one thing to make a bad new movie, but it's another to also drag things from previous ones people loved such as Luke through the mud and treat them like this.
Epic downvoted? Your opinion is probably the majority's.
schmeily2 ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 13:33:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I am realising this now.... when I posted there was a mix of for's & against.
These comments are restoring my faith in fellow film lovers after having a colleague spend the morning telling me how Last Jedi is a masterpiece.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:09:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
the problem is these movies by disney are just designed for mass market appeal. there is no grand creative vision behind it. they just tick the boxes and it works for regular joe.
No downvotes for you friend. You speak the big true-true. This film is an embarrassment.
YgRoB ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:52:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just some fanboy opinion here but I was totally prepared for some Jedi Master badassery when Luke appeared at the end but then... that was it. Liked the movie overall but it severely lacked duels. :(
That was definitely a disappointment. That they put in Luke at the very end of TFA with no lines or anything made me expect that he'd be in TLJ in full force, being a super badass. But no, just a projection of his body and then he dies. So anti climactic
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:00:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The projection thing was so over the top, as was the all but physical connection between Rey and Kylo. The film jumped the shark about fifty times.
What chaps my hide the most is Rian Johnson instagramming in like January 2016:
YOUR SNOKE THEORY SUCKS
Of course, it was all in good fun, but when you tweet/IG something like that out, at best youโll have people patiently waiting for your mind blowing reveal and at worst youโll have the fans frothing at zero closure regarding how he not only came to be, but what he was doing and why he was doing whatever during the OT.
MAYBE OUR SNOKE THEORIES SUCK BECAUSE YOU CREATIVES COULD NOT COME UP WITH ANYTHING GOOD ENOUGH.
He looks ancient. Like pre-prequels ancient. I feel like we deserved a backstory.
Even Marvel villains get a 20 second โoh, Kacelius came to us a broken man and took zealots with himโ explanation from Marvel films.
gdsgdn ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:56:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was also very much missing a lightsaber duel :/
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:13:57 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This movie was not good. Completely agree with you.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:08:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Sounds like you want some fan service. A big bad guy, a light saber duel, some buddy buddy scenes. I feel like this film will definitely split opinions and challenge people which is exactly what it should be, star wars films need to move in different directions and not rehash old plots.
Never change /r/movies. If your opinion isnโt the circlejerk you get downvotes. Great discussion.
If anything I want the opposite. I want them to be creative with the amazing lore and components Star Wars has instead of making a copy-paste blockbuster film.
"As good as the Snoke-room fight with the elite Praetorian guards was"..... "I am a big fan of how they've handled his arc and really like him as a character"..... "the scene of her floating out the ship (assumed dead) from the explosion was beautifully shot "
Read before making yourself look like an idiot. This film had positives, that were far outweighed by the negatives, which is a waste for something with so much potential.
I wouldn't have paid money to see this if I knew I was going to watch what was basically an MCU film. Why did they feel the need to ruin every dramatic moment with facetious quips?
_Ardhan_ ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 17:30:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's like they have a deadly allergy to any dialogue lasting more than a minute at a time.
I donโt know why people keep negatively comparing this to the MCU...the MCU at least has jokes that mostly work and are generally really good films. TLJ has no good jokes and is just kinda meh as a film.
What Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kannedy have done to Luke Skywalker's character is inexcusable. They destroyed the image people have had of him for 30 years, all in the name of making Rey the one end-all be-all heroine of the Star Wars franchise.
For all the faults of the prequels, they at least never went as far as complete character assassination of long standing beloved cultural icons like this. Fuck Disney.
[deleted] ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 22:56:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Luke Skywalker saw the good in DARTH VADER of all people, he would never have even have a moment of concern over Ben's possible dark side. Not to mention he left his Jedi training because he felt uneasy about his friends, he would never just abandon the galaxy cause of one mistake.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 02:00:13 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, it would be much better if Luke had been too naive and ignored the dark side growing in Ben, thinking he alone could do something even when it was to late.
Maybe say it wasn't a good idea to separate a young teenager from his parents, and that made him vulnerable to Snoke.
Luke even thinking about killing his nephew is completely out of character.
He and Obi-Wan were also best friends despite being pissed at each other 24/7.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:20:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know, I really felt like for the third act Luke was the main hero. Though I'll concede him dying leaves it wide open for Rey to become the lead again.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:20:53 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But Luke didin't kill Kylo, he pulled back on his decision.
[deleted] ยท 43 points ยท Posted at 20:28:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs likely they got some โbonusesโ from The Mouse. Many of these critics are also women.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 21:20:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
greeb666 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:15:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I am convinced it is like game reviews. If you give a bad review chances are you won't get given the game again and paid next time. With films, you don't get to preview it.
In some ways if critics pan a movie that I know something about I actually tend to enjoy the film more. I think it is because they aren't getting a benefit for that review and they tend to be harsh even when the film is good.
Rotten Tomatoes has always been shit, I was hoping meta critic would be better but then I saw what they gave the force awakens.
stabbybit ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:11:52 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
To be fair, after how painfully mediocre TFA was, and how fans threw themselves into defending it, I honestly didn't think the hardcore Star Wars fans would be this upset about it, lol. I got all but textually assaulted over my feelings about TFA, and that's a movie with a plot that functions solely on convenience and contrivance, and the conclusion is impossible without a series of random encounters. That film basically hurtles along without any regard for logic or causal relationships, and the protagonists are flatter than cheap pizza. And I got a ton of flak for pointing that out. It wouldn't surprise me if critics just didn't phone in reviewing this one to avoid the backlash. I made my own review a two-part. First half for the "If you just really like Star Wars" and then a second half with mild spoilers for those interested in a more objective take on the film, lol.
To me, and I gave it a 6/10, it's silly and simplistic and the humor ruins a lot of the dramatic tension, but it's still kinda fun and I thought Mark Hammill was solid, and I liked the dialog between him and Yoda as they muse about things coming full circle.
It's unoriginal, the tone is wildly inconsistent, the race-against-the-clock plot structure was a poor choice, and the dialog is poor-to-bad. But that's about it. For popcorn movie fare, this fits the bill. I mean, at this point, I'm more surprised by a good Star Wars movie than I am by a bad one. Rogue One, despite its stilted editing and Disney's clear manipulation of the plot (that first Vader scene is painfully inserted), was shockingly enjoyable. But that's also because Rogue One took some risks, I guess.
I will say, though. Some parts of TFA I appreciate more after seeing TLJ. It definitely relies a lot less on exposition for scenebuilding and storytelling.
I think I liked Rogue One so much because it was darker and grittier than most SW movies. It showed that even the rebels have a dark side with plain murder in the first few minutes, while also showing that the Empire had its fringes with the dirty troopers in the tank and the filthy prison. To me it made the SW universe more realistic.
Plus the high casualty rate. While in TLJ all the main characters are superheroes with almost Superman-esque survival skills.
TheAlta ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:43:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Probably massive campaign by Disney to generate enough buzz to keep the movie afloat
YAYSAY ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:58:49 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah the difference between reddit and the reviewers just shows that there's something fishy with the reviewers. I expected to come into this thread and see some disappointment but mostly praise. Almost every single post here is trashing it.
LDKCP ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 21:10:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I actually disagree. It seems the die hard fans have their qualms, but they are very nit picky. I thought it was a fantastic film with a few flaws.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 21:28:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not a diehard. Have only seem The Force Awakens (7/10) and Rogue (7.5/10) and thought this movie was bad.
If you think R1 was a 7.5 and this was bad I don't know what to say to you
greeb666 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 23:16:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
R1 was good the TFA was awful.
peeorpoo ยท 120 points ยท Posted at 11:32:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Bloody hell. I hate that fucking forced romantic subplot. Rose is totally useless and it wouldnโt have made a difference if she was left out of the movie. In fact, the movie mightโve been better.
Honestly though, I found this to be one of the weaker Star Wars movies. I liked the connection between rei and Kylo Ren and the humor of this movie. But the action scenes of this movie werenโt that great and the death of Snoke was just a huge letdown.
This movie felt really forced to me, it doesnโt really try anything new and it feels really stale; it doesnโt take any risk and hence I was not really invested in this movie. There are actually many over the top moments in this movie, like when leia was sucked into space and she uses the force to pull herself back to the ship.
Overall, Iโd say that this might be the third weakest movie in the Star Wars universe.
NDuckL ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 12:01:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You honestly think this movie didn't try anything new ? It completely changed directions from where TFA was heading it felt like they are now truly headed in an new direction for Star Wars. TFA took the safest route possible, this movie closed some doors but opened so many other doors I'm super excited for EP IX, whish Rian Johnson would direct it. JJ has some big shoes to fill hopefully it'll be more like MI III or Star Trek 09, less like Into Darkness and TFA.
peeorpoo ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 12:11:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sorry but what new direction? In the end the rebels still gets fucked up and our heroes escapes death way too many times. A single X-wing is able to take out all the cannons of the dreadnaught and there are those cliche "self-sacrifice" moments that frankly I felt rogue one did better.
I would've said it tried something new if Rei had taken up Kylo's offer and they then went on to fuck some shit up.
To each his own then, I'm glad you enjoyed the movie though.
I agree with u/peeorpoo, the opening scene with Poe in the X-wing, while badass, was totally unbelievable. Too many redshirts and nothing of consequence happening in this film aside from Luke
I was falling asleep thinking that's the only thing that could make the movie interesting but then I remembered if the movie hasn't had the balls to kill a single main character, would have the balls to do this?
Adamulos ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:46:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Something new would be rey and ren deciding to fight together as grey side, with luke understanding that's wrong and sacrificing himself to let rebels run.
Last movie then would be about fighting rey as a traitor to rebels, ren as traitor to order, hux for order, poe for rebels. But they really wanted to keep black and white sadly.
Yes - Having the NO and rebels join up to fight Rey/Ren and realizing they should work together and that will make the galaxy a more stable place would be trying something new. This is the good person not compromising, the evil person being internally confused but wanting to rule the galaxy with them and both rejecting the other's offer.
Grey side of the force... That would have actually been really cool!
nashist ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:47:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Disagree with not taking risks, it did and two of them really paid off.
Bit agree with the rest
jm434 ยท 49 points ยท Posted at 11:46:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I both enjoyed and disliked the movie.
Perhaps after watching sci-fi stories like BSG, Babylon 5, even Star Trek to some extent I've just become really disappointed in how Star Wars handles space battles. The best it has got is honestly the prequels (opening scene in III) and the clone wars animated series.
TLJ follows the same formula, capital ships that don't have point defense cannons (because we have to constantly cash in on that trench run nostalgia), ineffective fighter screens that only launch after the fact, battles that feel like everyone that isn't the character being focused time freezes and don't do anything. Ships that act like they are being controlled by amateurs and not experienced commanders. (This isn't an issue if a commander is shown to be incompetent, but why is it every Empire/First Order commander is an idiot?). I could go on but I think everyone gets the idea on my thoughts.
The best scene however, is the rebel cruiser turning into a hyperspeed missile. Being completely silent with different angle shots was just incredible. I don't think I've felt an entire theatre stunned into silence before now and it was amazing.
But this amazing scene is 'ruined' when you think about it. Why didn't the admiral do it sooner? The movie made it out like she watched half the transports die before acting.
Also If hyperspeed weapon tech is a thing (and in TFA starkiller uses it, otherwise it makes even less sense) why is it not widespread? Why have capital ships if a fighter could just kamikaze? Sure you can argue that there must be counter-tech and posit that it was turned off because the FO wanted the rebels to jump, but then why are rebel ships able to escape in every other scene in every other movie? Just another case of dues ex machina like in every other lazy story telling, only brought out because that's what the plot wants.
Now why did the Admiral not tell Poe or his other co-conspirators the plan? An entire section of the movie hinges on Poe thinking she's a traitor and ends up being the reason why the plan fails and 80% of the rebels are killed. Not to mention the entire Casino planet sub-plot was just awful, didn't feel like star wars and seemed to be in just to pad the runtime and distract from the fact that the entire fucking plot is based around the rebels escaping. Where's what happens directly after the republic core planets are inscinerated? It gets a couple lines in the opening scroll and that's it? Why don't we see the FO cementing itself as the de-facto rulers instead of just being told?
Between TFA and TLJ the overarching story has been cut down to its bare essentials. It doesn't feel like we're in a galaxy with thousands of world's, species and trillions of inhabitants, all with their unique cultures and influences.
The entire movie felt like a Marvel film because there now has to be a joke or physical gag undercutting every serious scene. I hate it in the marvel films and now it's been forced into SW as well.
Leia suddenly becoming one with the force and surviving vacuum was cheap as hell. Not to mention she exposed an entire pressurized corridor to vacuum when she came back aboard.
Finn being saved by the 'love interest' who is supposedly a lowly support staffer but ends up being just as superhuman that can do anything was also cheap. Also who crashes into a flimsy, windowless speeder that's being disintegrated by the cough battering ram cannon (really?!) and think to themselves the pilot can totes survive? Oh wait it's a main character, I'm being silly.
The only thing that saved this movie was all of the Luke-Ray-Kylo interactions. They were really well done (apart from a couple lines of cringey dialogue). While it sucks that Snoke ended up being a minor character, I enjoyed Kylo going full Sith and killing his master. I really didn't want him to be redeemed because we've had that already with Vader.
Also the red bodyguards finally got to do something and the entire fight sequence was awesome.
I think I should stop considering how long this has got.
It doesn't feel like we're in a galaxy with thousands of world's, species and trillions of inhabitants, all with their unique cultures and influences.
I feel like the casino planet was supposed to help that right? Otherwise most of the film would have just been on the rebel ship or Luke's island. I enjoyed it as a break from the monotony atleast.
I also agree with you on the plot armor for Leia and Finn. Leia being killed of early would have been an excellent move seeing how she does nothing in the film besides say her goodbyes to Luke
jm434 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 12:53:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You make a good point. I guess I was just so annoyed by the Casino sub-plot that I felt it was a pointless distraction rather then as a way to show there's more going on outside of the FO/Rebels.
bedbugsex ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:19:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
My thoughts to a T except about the fight sequence. Poorly choreographed (subjective?), very slow movements, and made lightsabers seem very pointless. Sure it was multiple on one, but Rey and Kylo were both "defeated" one on one. I mean yeah if the bodyguards did something more effective than choking, this miserable trilogy could have ended.
And I'm more mixed on the Kylo Ray Luke storyline. Couple of problems: Making Kylo sympathetic half-worked, except it wasn't self defense to kill every other student. Luke was not redeemed he basically went from "I screwed up, to fuck it he needs to die and let me make fun of him while I'm at it". Rey is overly emotional for no reason and seems to have almost fallen in love with Kylo over Force Tinder.
jm434 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:48:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree it did seem very slow, like the bodyguards were quick to be 'en guarde' but their actions after the fact weren't.
It stems from the issue of them being main characters with plot armour. The bodyguards aren't going to do anything serious, though it wouldn't have gone amiss if we had had the classic SW trope of a limb being dismembered. With lightsabres feeling useless, I think that's the point, that the SW universe has moved on from the age of the Jedi/Sith and now competent people with lightsabre deflecting technology exist (hell the droids had those duel wielding purple stick robots during the Clone Wars).
That definitely could have been fleshed out more, even a couple quick scenes of Kylo and his Knights cutting down the other students would have been good. It highlights I think one of the main issues of the movie in that story elements (that don't directly affect the very small overall plot) are mostly told not shown.
For me, Luke's quip to Kylo at the end was out of place with how his character had been portrayed the entire film. But other than that the entire 'force projection' trolling was fantastic and I really like how Luke ended.
I guess that's a good point about lightsabers being outdated. Tr8tor beating Finn was another example (which was really well choregraphed). But then you wonder why Kylo even bothers with one when he's about "killing the past".
Yeah that might work if there were others, like a gang mentality/peer pressure situation. They could even make it so he wasn't even the one to physically do it (like blowing up Leia). And to be fair Anakin basically went from the same conflicted/sympathetic bad decision to full on youngling hunter like some sort of split personality.
The force trolling to save the rebels wasn't a terrible plot point and serves to show the folly of Kylo's anger (but also turns him into an extremely incompetent leader), but film doesn't seem to know how the audience should feel about the whole murder in the sleep issue. It's almost like Luke feels he was right all along in the end.
uravg ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:25:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Speaking of space battles my brother was mad at the parabolic motion of the cannon projectiles
Squallify ยท 40 points ยท Posted at 18:47:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Loved the animation and special effects. Hated the plot. No character developement whatsover, many stupid plot holes or scenes that led nowhere (the whole rose and finn trip? Only to sell cute horse monster toys?)
And dont get me started on Leia's space voyage. Ah, how far we have come from "sensing a perturbance in the force" when something happened in the other side of the universe to directly using the force to skype someone.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:26:14 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Arguably there was a lot of character development in Kylo, we see him going from a weak servant to Hux and Snoke to the leader of the First Order. Hes surpassed Vader in terms of leadership, as Vader could never overthrow Palpatine and still rule.
For me, TLJ is a 6/10. I really liked Kylo Ren , Luke was great until they offed him for some reason and that throne battle scene was good.
My main gripe with is that it completely undoes episodes 1-6, the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker, the rebellion defeating the empire and balance being restored. Here the Republic is gone and Jedi are largely extinct after returning. The ST is trying to build a new world but it's tearing down the old one and that's my main issue.
There's Rose who was just disappointing, her storyline with Finn was pointless. I was really pissed that she saved Finn from trying to sacrifice himself since she shocked him earlier for trying to desert out the Escape Pod
Finn's potential was thrown out the window. Being an ex-stormtrooper who was trying to find his place in the galaxy was interesting at the start, he was an underdog from the get-go but in this movie his only chance to do something was cut-off by Rose's rescue which led to him accomplishing nothing.
Plus the premise of the First Order chasing a rebel fleet for about 3/4 was ridiculous. They have hundreds of fighters and bombers between them and couldn't blow up all four ships?
The rest: Space Leia, Snokes death and wasted potential, no Po Dameron development, Yoda's puppet being jarring and the constant jokes.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:39:38 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yoda's puppet was really fucking bad.
"But it was just like it was in the OG trilogy."
Well, there is something wrong when visual effects don't evolve after 40 years. Also, the older movies tried to hide how clunky it was. This one just shows front and center.
Luke abandoned training to save his friends. Rushing off to face horrible odds has been the staple of a lot of starwars. I doesnt feel like they are undoing 1-6. They made a good point. There will always be good and evil. Light and dark. And the balance is like that island. The force will always be there. But one having more than the other is what vader stopped.
The humour was the biggest problem. There is no coming back from it. It won't matter how many times I watch the movie, I'm not going to just get used to it. Have a serious fucking scene ffs. The writer/director fucked everything from Episode VII up. The movie was set up so well. There was no way to mess it up.
And then he fucking has Luke throw the light saber over his back and go be a dick. I would have thought it impossible to ruin Luke, but he literally did everything he possibly could to ruin the character. The only part of Luke I liked was that he sees himself a much younger man in his head. That's the sorry of humour that the movie should have been doing. A little covert vanity.
After 24 hours I'm just getting more and more angry. I've seen every Star Wars movie at midnight (the rerelease for the originals). I've never come out disappointed. But the more I think about this movie the more I'm just angry. It almost feels like it was made by two directors. Almost everything with Rey (as long as it didn't also feature Luke) was amazing. There were lots of good moments in the second half. But when more than 50% of the movie is bad there is a problem.
I can't believe that Disney gave this director/writer free rein. It is so bad. So very very bad. And now they want to give him the next trilogy. I'm done with Star Wars of that happens. I can only hope that the feedback from people that aren't sycophantic reviewers will cancel those plans.
No, it certainly does not. I still can't believe they ended Rey's establishing scene with the lightsaber with a sight gag where a rock destroys a turtlenun's cart and they stare up accusingly while she looks back with a "OMG, sorry" expression.
Good. Fucking. Lord.
I've joked it would be like ending the scene where Yoda lifts Luke's X-Wing out of the swamp by plopping it down and splashing Luke and R2D2 with mud, cutting back to a shot of Yoda shrugging with a smirk.
You're telling me you didn't walk out of Phantom Menace disappointed? I can understand not walking out of AotC of RotS disappointed because by that point you should've expected the bucket of shit that they were.
Not the previous poster, but I feel like Phantom Menace still had some great mixed in with the terrible, stuff which felt really classic Star Wars such as the feel of the world and Qui Gon as the wise Jedi Sage, and the terrible stuff didn't feel like it broke the universe or established plot, it just wasn't well presented.
Qui Gon the wise Jedi Sage that made incomprehensible decisions like let's get on separate dropships, or let's try and repair this incredibly conspicuous chrome ship instead of buying a non-descript one.
Midichlorians took a huge steaming turd on the universe.
Jar-Jar and little Annie were painful as characters.
People also trot out the "but the podracing was cool" or "Duel of the Fates was awesome". So what? Phantom Menace is an absolute mess of a movie.
Qui Gon the wise Jedi Sage that made incomprehensible decisions like let's get on separate dropships, or let's try and repair this incredibly conspicuous chrome ship instead of buying a non-descript one.
I don't see the problem with going on different drop ships? Worked out fine? Not necessarily great either, but I'm more talking from the force / dealing with Anakin's family situation / discussing being on the council / discussing the non-invincibility of Jedi / etc, it felt very interesting and in line with what had come before.
JJ was painful, I didn't mind most of kid Anakin. But they didn't break the universe or plot, which is critically important to me. Something which, at the end of the day, feels like a universe worth getting invested in.
The things I listed weren't podracing or duel of the fates.
He had absolutely no way of knowing that they would land together. If he was truly wise he would have freed Shmi as well. He didn't have to let Anakin keep contact with her but the knowledge that she was somewhere safe would have eased a great burden on him.
Qui Gon's actions on Tatooine are very strange.
* Why didn't he just buy a new icognito ship? I'm sure he could find somewhere that actually accepted Republican credits for this.
* Why did he trust Watto when he said the larger dealers wouldn't have the same part?
* Why did he take Jar Jar with him? There is no sensible in-universe reason.
What is the "feel of the world" from TPM that is good?
Yeah, but they need to demonstrate that in action. It would be easy for the bombs to be pushed out of the bay and maintain that inertia once free in space.
The real answer is "It's Star Wars, and the space fights have always been little more than WW2 dogfights ported into space opera."
The midichlorians create an artificial gravity field that pulls cannonballs downward. When they're not hard at work transmitting sound through a vacuum, of course.
ggalaxyy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:37:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And everyone can breath in space, too. Oh but when Leia "dies," there is now zero gravity, but it is cold and icy. But it wasn't cold in the other scenes...
Isn't it the opposite of that? I figured he simply leveled up and is now one with the force. Remember, that is a more powerful state of being than any living force user can wield.
In the grand scheme of things, his role in the redemption of Darth Vader and the destruction of the Empire and the person who originated 6 movies, he went out like a fuking wet fart.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:56:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's all been confirmed that Disney and the writers have no clear vision or goals for this trilogy and this movie really showed that. Here are some food for thought:
Snoke was anti-climatically killed and we still don't know who he really was or what his purpose was.
Who or what is the real threat for the third movie now? Rey is now the Mary Sue to end all Mary Sue and we really have nothing to look forward to.
Apparently Leia is some sort of super saiyan Jedi now? She can fly through space. WTF is all that about.
Luke had a high moral standard and sees the good in Vader, AKA Space Hitler and has probably had billions killed by his hand and yet were suppose to believe that Luke all of a sudden sees no solution other than to try and kill his own nephew?
So apparently ghost Yoda can summon force lighting. Never mind the fact that Force Lighting is a DARK SIDE power and that a ghost can interact with the real world.
Yoda destroys the ancient Jedi text because apparently Rey knows it all now. Okay, so, what about future Jedi's? That was a dick move.
Luke, the Jedi Jesus, had to go through tough training with Yoda to gain the powers that he does but Rey automatically knows everything and can do anything.
These are just some of the more obvious problems and I can go on forever. I might get crucified for this but even though the movies were terrible, Atleast the prequel had a story to tell.
I didn't notice this at all when I was watching the movie. Either I dozed off for a bit, or it wasn't made clear enough for me.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:13:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Never mind the fact that Force Lighting is a DARK SIDE power
That's not how Force works.
Bad puns aside, seriously - there's nothing in canon that straight up blocks Jedi from using the power. They just didn't use it for ethical reasons. You don't need to be attuned with dark side to use it.
Most other points I more or less agree with, even as big Star Wars fan... or maybe because of it. Not totally a fan of how new trilogy is going.
I thought it wasn't an amazing movie but still, most of what you're saying doesn't make any sense:
I understand how some people are pissed but again.. Fans created all theories, expected him to be either Pleiguis or someone else but It's Palpatine all over again. In the IT you don't care that much about him, he's just the bad guy's boss.
Kylo is the threat. Rey isn't a Mary Sue.. come on the first time she tries to learn the Force ways with Luke she fails to the dark side.. She's any hero type, not a freaking Marie Sue.
Can't argue on that one.. I feel like every Star Wars movie needs to do a cheesy scene. This one was cringy, I just wanted to forget it right after seeing it.. Make her survive the explosion thanks to a Force shield.. but not this crap.
Luke explains it. The thought of killing him lasted only a couple of seconds. I think he also said it was an awful thought but it was too late.
That's not a writer's mistake, the problem here is that there's never been any clear explanation on how force ghosts worked and what they could do.. Yoda was OK so it didn't annoyed me though I can understand how it bothered you.
Already answered everywhere, Rey has the books.
She's not OK and doesn't know everything.. She's just a good fighter and more importantly good at convincing people haha
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 15:21:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:52:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"It's time, for the Star Wars fandom, to end."
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:36:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Star Wars is basically "This Isn't What I Wanted!: The Series"
See: The Prequels, The Force Awakens.
Too many people expect too many different things from the series because people grew up with both the OT and the PT.
The solution? End the Skywalker Saga and stay away from it.
I am so disappointed. I have my issues with The Force Awakens as a Star Wars film (and there are many issues) but I've always maintained it's a damn good film in its own right.
This... This was a bad film as well as a bad Star Wars film. I can't believe they ruined my childhood hero so much. I'm not talking about his grumpiness really either. Luke would never, never consider killing his nephew in his sleep like that. Maybe only for a second, but never to the point of actually drawing his fucking lightsaber.
Fuck. I can't believe I hated it that much.
skuppo ยท 34 points ยท Posted at 15:51:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
RIGHT! The original trilogy is all about him refusing to see Vader as entirely dark, and then redeeming him, this is completely out of character.
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 21:32:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hamil did say he disagreed with pretty much Luke's entire direction for this movie.
I was talking about this with someone else, we both came to the conclusion that if he sensed Ben's potential to be the next Vader, his response would've been "Well then, if that even happens I will save him like I saved Vader."
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:04:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Luke saved Vader by getting fried by Palpatine til Vader couldn't take it anymore. I wouldn't be keen for another go at that either.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:07:24 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Vader was way more far gone than Ben. Vader had years of killing people. Ben was an edgy teen with dark thoughts.
You're remembering Kylo's version of events, not the final version we get shown from Luke, where he ignites his saber but does not move it. Ben wakes and, believing he is about to be attacked, ignites his saber and goes at Luke.
Hopko682 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:52:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He said in the movie that it was a "temporary moment of weakness"
Luke is impulsive, and has shown temptation to the dark side before. His intentions are always good but he's not a perfect man, that's what makes him such a great character.
Wow. Opinions I guess. For me, this is by far the best of the new movies. TFA and Rogue One did nothing for me in terms of breaking new ground and introducing new concepts, while this film was everything I wanted and more.
Out of group of five of us who saw it, two of us were thoroughly disappointed, one was ambivalent and two enjoyed it. I'm super jealous of everyone who enjoyed it to be honest. Very divisive film I guess.
Might I ask what you disliked about Rogue One and what made The Last Jedi so enjoyable for you?
samsaBEAR ยท 145 points ยท Posted at 11:35:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I watched a double bill and seeing TFA before hand really made the disappointment worse. The forced humour in basically every other scene, the whole Casino part, Snoke being no real threat whatsoever, Finn being underused, Phasma being underused, the Porgs being horribly overused and so on.
The two main things I just hate where Leia's spacewalk and blowing up Snoke's ship. In the case of Leia, when we all know they need to tie up her story, why did they have her somehow be able to survive open space, Force her way back in and then survive the film? It's just so clumsy when they could have easily CGI'd her onto the Cruiser and sacrifice her like that.
Which leads me onto the next bit, why in all that is holy did Holdo not just make the jump to lightspeed as soon as the transports were clear? She knew she was going to die, why not attempt that exact thing? Nothing Finn/Rose did meant she could suddenly do it, it's just lazy writing to make fake tension in showing the transports being taken out one by one. The whole Rebel escape just felt like a bottle episode of a TV show, it was dragged out for way too long only for the ground assault at the end to feel rushed.
There were some fantastic scenes like Rey in the dark hole or every scene she had with Kylo, especially the fight at the end. The space battles look fantastic and while I didn't like how it was done, the shot of the First Order fleet being destroyed was gorgeous. But none of it left me looking forward to Episode 9, I'll see it because it's Star Wars but damn I feel sorry for JJ Abrams and the pressure he's had to both introduce a brand new trilogy and now end it after such a disappointing middle part.
nashist ยท 35 points ยท Posted at 12:24:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's so sad that I completely agree with you.
Declanhx ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 14:23:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It makes me wonder what the goal of the movie was.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:38:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To join EA on the Dark Side of the Force and complete the unholy union of completely fucking Star Wars to death
Riddy86 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:39:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone else felt a glimmer of hope that the character they were sent to get at the casino was Lando, I thought the pleasure yacht may have been the Lady Luck.
TheAlta ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:28:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The bit that really fucking confuses me is how suddenly rey isn't on the first order ship anymore, but she is somehow on the falcon, but is still late to the show when the entire first order army arrives on the planet? (an army which includes kylo ren and hux). Also how do they fit all of the 50+ survivors on the falcon??? I can't remember a worse movie I have seen in the past 5 years
What is REALLY interesting about Star Wars fans in general is exactly this : you want the same thing served again and again, but without your knowledge.
They literaly have to re-do the same thing, there is no winning possible.
Dark and menacing Snoke ? Meh, I've seen Sidious before, that's just a Sidious copy.
Snoke gets killed in a clever way with some form of ironic joke about power ? DUDE. HOW DARED THEY kill the bad guy before he could [enter fight 1 with good guy] and [die cut in a duel] ?? This is NOT Star Wars !
Like come on. There are valid gripes, the humor is among them, but being sad that you don't have the classical "fetch quest" -> destroy generator -> rebellion escapes/win, I mean, shit. It felt, for one, authentic.
Not every mission is a success. Sometimes it fails even worse.
Leia force pulls backs ?? RUINED. Literaly all of you were expecting her to die in such a cool death scene this movie.
Honnestly, half of the disapointment seems to stem from simply fan-fiction expectations shattered.
I could go on, and on.
Rose is useless / is a nobody ? Guys, she represents the fucking Resistance, she is the "little" guy that has everything blown up.
Yeah the chemistry with Finn is pretty bad, but that's because there are other things to be done to satisfy you on other levels. Add action, more Luke, etc.
Seeing that people get bored watching such a fucking CRAMED movie is insane. Like, do people even watch regular movies ? I don't know.
/rant.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:36:32 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
All of these things that Star Wars fans are complaining about that you mention here is down to execution.
1.Fans complained about how Snoke was a pretty useless character in TFA and agreed that he had to die but the execution was horrendous. His death was straight out of Empire Strikes Back and it was made worse by the fact he had no character development to backup the reason he was killed.
2. Did you even watch the movie? There was a 'classical fetch quest'. Finn's whole story arc was the fetch quest which ultimately had no place in the story because Holdo's plan all along was to let the Rebels escape and for her to kamikaze into the First Order.
3. Fans were expecting a good send-off for Leia because ya know Carrie Fisher isn't alive anymore. So for her to not only not die but also inexplicably save herself using the force that's she's never practiced throughout the movie timeline is gonna piss alot of people off. Anyone who isn't left scratching their heads as to why she was kept alive due to implications of not being able to be in Episode 9 is an idiot.
4. Rose is being really dragged through the mud due to the fact that you could replace with her with Poe and then that story arc doesn't feel hamfisted into the movie to introduce the love angle into the story and Poe and Finn would be two actors who actually have chemistry.
All of these things that Star Wars fans are complaining about that you mention here is down to execution.
That's not what you are talking about though.
Fans complained about how Snoke was a pretty useless character in TFA and agreed that he had to die
"the fans agreed he had to die", well good thing they gave their blessings...
Yeah remember Sidious ? He was just that evil guy. That's it.
Also, his death was way more clever and well put than Sidious. Also, KR didn't kill him to become good, but the opposite.
Did you even watch the movie? There was a 'classical fetch quest'. Finn's whole story arc was the fetch quest which ultimately had no place in the story because Holdo's plan all along was to let the Rebels escape and for her to kamikaze into the First Order.
Yeah, and you forgot that the Fetch Quest is supposed to succeed ! But it didn't. At least admit you were expecting it to succeed.
You are saying it was useless (like many others) on the basis it didn't not succeed, but that's precisely the point : to change from the classical go get the thing and blow up the generator. They didn't blow up the generator.
Fans were expecting a good send-off for Leia because ya know Carrie Fisher isn't alive anymore. So for her to not only not die but also inexplicably save herself using the force that's she's never practiced throughout the movie timeline is gonna piss alot of people off.
Yeah people are stupid and forget that a character is not an actor. It's not because your actor died that your character HAS to die in this movie, if the movie was fully shot. There is no connection, at all.
The fan just felt entitled enough they could demand in their own heads that she died in the movie as well to pay "respects" on screen with a cool death.
Anyone who isn't left scratching their heads as to why she was kept alive due to implications of not being able to be in Episode 9 is an idiot.
It's literaly a movie, they can writer her off like in any movie. The movie can literaly start with her funeral.
Rose is being really dragged through the mud due to the fact that you could replace with her with Poe and then that story arc doesn't feel hamfisted into the movie to introduce the love angle into the story and Poe and Finn would be two actors who actually have chemistry.
Poe is not the same character with the same motivations.
CMC3BFF ยท 175 points ยท Posted at 11:12:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You know what this movie felt like? A spectacle and nothing more.
Everything looked amazing, just incredible, but there was just no substance whatsoever. The vision that held together the previous 6 films isn't there.
The script feels like they wrote two lines then folded the page over one and gave it to the next writer as they tried to come up with the next line without any previous context.
So much of that film was fluff, you could lint roll 70% of it off and only then would you start to see an improvement in story telling.
I'm actually really disappointed.
schmeily2 ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 12:00:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You know what this movie felt like? A spectacle and nothing more.
Everything looked amazing, just incredible, but there was just no substance whatsoever. The vision that held together the previous 6 films isn't there.
Stealing this to supplement my opinion for friends going to watch it. Summarises my feelings about it so well. So disappointed even if the film itself is enjoyable enough.
[...] โStar Warsโ has been influenced by industry trends. Though the series has always been self-aware enough to crack jokes, it now gives in to the same winking self-parody that is poisoning other franchises of late, from the Marvel movies to โPirates of the Caribbean.โ But it begs the question: If movies canโt take themselves seriously, why should audiences?
Great point from the article, so true. Lots of dramatic moments (be it grand action or between characters) fell completely flat because they felt the need to put jokes everywhere
Asiriya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:06:12 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why do you feel it's Johnson? TFA had similar problems. Rogue One had jokes all the way through.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:27:16 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think the problem is having jokes. The problem is where to put them.
I figure the director has the final say in what's shown on screen. Maybe that's not the case for a big movie like this though
Asiriya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:08:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's absolutely not the case, if Disney doesn't like what they're seeing they'll replace the director.
tlvrtm ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:36:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The script feels like they wrote two lines then folded the page over one and gave it to the next writer as they tried to come up with the next line without any previous context.
Great comment, I agree. While obviously connected to the other movies, this really felt a lot more like a stand-alone movie than the 8th in the series. It picked up from the second that TFA left off, but it didn't actually feel like a sequel
Asiriya ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:07:42 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I said the same thing after TFA. We're going to miss George before long. He wasn't perfect by any means, but he loved Star Wars and wasn't as cynical as Disney are showing themselves to be. For them, Star Wars is about making money. For George it was about telling a story.
You know what this movie felt like? A spectacle and nothing more.
Everything looked amazing, just incredible, but there was just no substance whatsoever. The vision that held together the previous 6 films isn't there.
Stealing this to supplement my opinion with friends going to watch it. Summarises my feelings about it so well. So disappointed even if the film itself is enjoyable enough.
feric89 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 15:59:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Those Loch Ness monster nipples will forever be burned in my memory.
splendick ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 00:01:45 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Can anyone explain why they didn't just go to the rebel planet closer to the start of the film? Surely they knew it was there. Hated this movie. Complete waste of time, genuinely could be the worst in the series
I honestly found them more enjoyable than this movie. I couldn't wait for it to be over, I found it boring and felt like it lacked a solid plot. There were so many chances for TLJ to be interesting and it falls short every time
I just feel so put off this trilogy now. TFL fell short for me too, I felt a bit cheated out of an original movie. This was an original story but a piss-poor original story. Not sure how IX will save it.
I defended TFA because I saw it had potential, yeah I was basically a remake of A New Hope but I saw there was real potential for the expansion of the Star Wars universe. Wow do I feel like a fool. Snoke was pointless, Rey is still boring, Finn was wasted, Dameron had no development and Rose was shit.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 07:39:29 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When they first jumped they were just getting away. They didn't realise that they were being tracked until later. So they only had enough fuel for one jump left.
I'm talking about the rebel planet they went to at the end of the movie via the small transport ships. They could have just gone there after leaping
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:41:51 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There plan wasn't to go there though, it was not especially well fortified and they didn't expect to have to go there as nobody could track through lightspeed
No i dont think you're getting me. After they were tracked after leaping they would have known they were near that planet so why not go there? What other option did they have?
Dosca ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 13:10:01 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Revenge of the Sith is better
There, I said it
BorKon ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 17:27:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not mad about last jedi. I'm just so disappointed with it. Two years for nothing. It felt like they spent the whole movie showing everyone how wrong they are with all theories and offered instead apsolutly nothing. Who are reys parents, this was the question of last movie and this movie as well. But they are nobodies. OK fine but who is this mysterious snow? Also nobody, because he got fooled by the weakest bad guy in star wars movie history. Essentially everyone fooled Kyle with ease. The last part of the movie was about getting rid of old stuff for new. 2 years we were waiting for this? Essentially this movie made last movie and this movie useless for story progression.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:43:19 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
+1 for snow and kyle
[deleted] ยท 130 points ยท Posted at 11:26:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The audience ate that shit up, I actually thought it was funny for the first 5 seconds, then they dragged it on for 2 minutes to the point where you have to question if the commander is literally retarded.
One of my biggest gripes with this new trilogy is all the quipping and jokes they put in there, they all feel so forced. It feels like im watching a Marvel movie, not freaking Star Wars
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:17:21 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You don't remember all the stupid quips from the prequels?
TareXmd ยท 36 points ยท Posted at 13:41:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Just saw it. So basically everyone dies except the one actress who actually died, despite having like a hundred chances to kill her off gracefully. Maybe they're thinking the CGI is good enough now.
Some notes:
Snoke certainly needs to do a better job reading minds more specifically
I felt the final fight on that deserted planet was redundant. The movie could have found closure with Rey vanishing after the fight with Kylo Ren. BB-8 saving Finn and his gf, and the rebellion fleeing away without the hacker tipping off the First Order.
With Carrie gone (RIP), I feel Luke could have been a better replacement for Leia in the new movies, instead of having a CGI Leia.
I liked TFA more and am hopeful that JJA will bring it with the next episode
Rey's parents has so little thought to it, it feels primarily like a middle finger to fan theories more than anything else.
Edit: Also, Luke's fight was very badass till you find out he's just a ghost... That bothered me a bit.
Edit 2: I feel that Kylo was lying to Rey about her parents. He just wanted to sway her decision to join him, where she'd have more significance instead of being 'a nothing'. At least I hope he was lying. Otherwise it would be just extremely lazy writing.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:10:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Who are reys parents?
cwatz ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:39:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hint: When you know the answer, that question is still valid.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:07:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It is all of us
TareXmd ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:44:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
methwow ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:02:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Snoke certainly needs to do a better job reading minds more specifically
He read his mind perfectly but misjudged that he was the "enemy" and not Rey. It happens all the time with the Dark Side and is not something we have seen for the firs time.. He got cocky and died for it.
I felt the final fight on that deserted planet was redundant. The movie could have found closure with Ray vanishing after the fight with Kylo Ren. BB-8 saving Finn and his gf, and the rebellion fleeing away without the hacker tipping off the First Order.
That fights purpose was obviously to allow them to get away and also have Luke do something "big" in the movie..
With Carrie gone (RIP), I feel Luke could have been a better replacement for Leia in the new movies, instead of having a CGI Leia.
Who said Luke is not coming back? He can still be a force ghost in EP9 and kick everyone's ass
Rey's parents has so little thought to it, it feels primarily like a middle finger to fan theories more than anything else.
Why does she need to have some parent that everyone knows? For you it would either be a Kenobi or Skywalker and that is boring when there is a whole galaxy out there. There can be other people with the force who are not a Kenobi or Skywalker you know?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:30:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
TBH, her parents being a Skywalker, Kenobi, or Windu would have been a boring "predictable" cliche. I'm glad they didn't do it.
Nawpo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:57:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm astonished people that like TFA dislike TLJ. They're very fucking similar. For the record, I hated TFA for shitting on the OT trio and being littered with mystery boxes. TLJ just shits harder on Luke and is full of more cringey marvel humor.
How is TFA superior in any fucking way to the exact same material and approach in TLJ?
DrunkWino ยท 46 points ยท Posted at 18:01:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'd rather watch Attack of the Clones again.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:40:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
ROTS is a full watch, PM is a watch without Jar Jar, AOTC is a skip parts liberally for me
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 18:27:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Unpopular opinion but the Clone Wars was my favorite
pihkaltih ยท 41 points ยท Posted at 21:14:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What happened to the Republic where did it go? Why is it Rebels vs Empire again? Why has every achievement of the OT been erased? Why are all the OT characters just bitter old failures who are being killed off one by one having achieved nothing? Why would Luke Skywalker the guy that refused to give into murdering Vader try to murder young Ren?
Oh right, because Disney are absolute lazy hacks that have no vision for Star Wars beyond "HEY LETS GIVE THOSE MOUTH BREATHING IDIOT MASSES THE SAME SHIT AGAIN AND PLAY ON NOSTALGIA, ATAT, DEATH STAR, CHICKEN WALKERS, HAN SOLO, CHEWIE, LIGHT SABERS, LUKE SKYWALKER, YODA, LIGHT SABERS THEY KNOW THOSE, SO COOL SO COOL".
Seriously was it really just that hard to continue the story from RotJ with Jedi Academy or something? Just mash magical school/harry potter style story with Star Wars? Oh look follow a bunch of new Padawan as they learn to become Jedi and uncover a mystery about the return of the Sith.
Only coruscant. Apparently we're supposed to believe that the rest of the Republic's forces are just chilling around, despite there being thousands of other systems out there with their own fleets and armies.
Writers have no fucking sense of scale. Some fanboi is gonna come and debate me on it. Who wants to be first?
greeb666 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:07:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well in the last one a planet ate a star. The new series started out pretty stupid I don't know why people are surprised.
was...was the plot of the movie literally that if their ship goes a bit faster than the other (super mega death destroyer) ship they will be okay....Spaceballs had a better plot
SSF2_OW ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:51:07 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, that is exactly the plot. SPACE RACE! The film
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 13:34:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Bombers were like that in Starwars Battlefront 2 (2005), can't remember if there was a movie basis for it but it's been happening in-universe for a while.
it's entirely possible the apparatus that holds them just pushes them down to achieve the same effect as a bomb falling. Also it's a movie with laser swords and space wizards so there's that.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:29:24 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
it's entirely possible the apparatus that holds them just pushes them down to achieve the same effect as a bomb falling.
They wouldn't need to be on top of the destroyer then. They could point anywhere. There isn't up and down in space.
Did you miss the part where I said it's a movie with laser swords and space wizards? Realism should not be a concern with this movie.
Adamulos ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:04:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why are lasers ballistic
Svarec ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 17:32:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm honestly getting really tired with the stupid humour in Disney movies. This is a second Disney movie in a month, where out-of-place silly jokes heavily reduce my enjoyment of a movie. It wasn't as bad as Ragnarok, where several scenes got completely ruined by forced jokes but it was still bad. Granted, I still enjoyd both Ragnarok and TLJ but Disney seriously needs to ease up on the laughs because I'm worried about future rewatches. Filling the movie with cheap laughs might be an easy way to entartain general audiences in theater, but it doesn't work the second time.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:17:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought they had a good balance of jokes in TFA and they didn't take you out of the film, but they didn't get the balance right with TLJ
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:39:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Svarec ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:46:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree that the little amount of humour that's in BvS works, as opposed to Justice League. Also, failure of BvS has nothing to do with lack of humour and everything to do with shit storytelling and lame characters.
I really feel like forcing a cheap humour is an easy way to keep audiences in theaters entertained for 2 hours and make a movie look like it's good even though it's heavily flawed and won't work for repeated viewings. Doctor strange is a prime example of that. Loved it in theater, couldn't finish it at home on blu-ray. You can absolutely make a serious blockbuster where humour is either sporadic or non-existent, but it would require to make a perfectly flowing story and compelling characters that would completely draw you into the movie. TLJ may have the latter but lacks the former.
I left Ragnarok, it was so forced. Might have pushed through if I happened to feel better but I felt like crap and just wanted to go home and lay down. Then again may not have, it was so bad it might have made me feel that way
It had some good ideas, but it was just not star wars.
This was and mediocre Marvel movie. This was more GotG than SW and that is not good at all.
Count clichรฉ things in it, constant jokes and forced love story and everything you've already seen and then imagine all the character you know to act differently and be someone else.
And this is it. It was not a Star Wars mobie but some mediocre fan movie.
It had a few memorable scenes but also many bad ones and if memorable, then in not a good way at all.
It was all just a filler joke between ep 7 and 9.
And Luke had closer to Pirates 5 Jack than to himself.
Ugh! Sweet sweet Lucas and prequels compared to this. He at least tried to bring something new.
And also this was partially Empire Strikes Back but reversed! Ugh..
This rhymes like Lucas always wanted I guess.
Even direction didnt feel anything speciap ay most times.
Okay. Take half of the ESB, reverse it, put it through Marvel filter and jokes, put cliche dialogues and plot points in it, forget about previous movie and voila. You have this.
I would've thought cliche plot points would have done it since Star Wars is the entirety of the Hero's Journey played straight. Lifting half the plot from a previous SW film seems like a good way to make a Star Wars film, surely? Even if it is backwards, no?
Is it the "Marvel filter"? The irreverent, out of place comedy? Yeah, I hate that in my Star Wars. It was so good when Han had a serious conversation on the prison radio and didn't follow it up with a line worthy of Indiana Jones. Or when Yoda didn't get into a fight with R2 over a chocolate bar. I'm glad none of that happened in the original trilogy.
I loved his little talk about Jedi believing the the Force belongs to them in a sense because of there ability to sense it more, and how that is incredible vanity and is reason enough to disband.
For the rarest of moments it felt like a possible George Lucas influenced SW sequel trilogy film.
Also Yoda giving generic life lessons felt patronising for Luke.
I thought Yoda was fantastic honestly. For so long Luke's been the 'legend' - infallible, wise, talented. And at his lowest and most deslerate point, Yoda gives him a mental slap in the face. "You're still like you were back then, you ARE fallible." He just laughs in Lukes face, gives him some perspective.
I agree. It was so great to after decades still see them fall into their respective teacher/pupil roles. I like to believe Yoda and Luke had many more conversations on the island.
I was a bit letdown by how he was used in this movie. Here's really matured as an actor and I would have loved him being in another film or two or three to more flesh out what was going on with him. No wonder he didn't like what was written for his character
Admirrrr ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 11:32:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I expect him to come back the next movie, having a Yoda-like role
tlvrtm ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:44:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You didn't think the western showdown scene was "awesome"? Probably the best scene in the film for me. Mind you, I thought the movie was just "okay". But it had some standout scenes.
Having Ach-To as the source of much of the comic relief was frankly bizarre.
[deleted] ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 23:45:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This movie destroyed everything JJ had set up, while adding nothing new. How the fuck are they going to make the third movie, out of what? nothing interesting's left
Wasn't a fan of this. Left the theatre feeling somewhat dissapointed. My complaints:
Rey's acting here was HORRENDOUS. Especially in the scenes where she tries to convince Luke to train her. Her acting was passable in TFA because she didn't have to do much emoting, but she had to do that here and you could tell she was struggling with it.
The Leia Mary Poppins scene was just wtf.
Also I wish we had a proper lightsaber-on-lightsaber battle. Rey & Kylo fighting those guards was pretty cool but still not a proper duel. The one with Kylo & Luke doesn't count because he was fighting a ghost.
The death of Luke & Snoke were very anticlimactic. And lastly, Yoda looked very strange. The puppetting of him looked very shoddy and cheap like something out of Sesame Street. Unlike in ESB, he looked more like a puppet rather than a character.
SSF2_OW ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:53:30 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'd have to watch it again but I actually thought Rey had improved slightly. At least, in this film there were somehow worse actors. So that's some credit to Ridley
[deleted] ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 02:00:06 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Especially in the scenes where she tries to convince Luke to train her
She was supposed to be like that. She was lying to herself and Luke why she was there. She wasn't meant to be convincing because she could not even convince herself.
The Leia Mary Poppins scene was just wtf.
A Skywalker, Skywalked.
Leia is just as strong in the Force as Luke is, but she simply isn't a jedi. The force saving her was fine
The death of Luke & Snoke were very anticlimactic
Luke finally found peace and became one with the force. He essentially did what Obi Wan Kenobi did. Snokes was anticlimactic but also completely unexpected. Which I did like. With how strong his force powers are it would feel weird for him to have a proper duel with Kylo or Rey. He wasn't a Sith but simply a dark side user. The underhanded tactic is not a bad way to do it
lastly, Yoda looked very strange. The puppetting of him looked very shoddy and cheap like something out of Sesame Street. Unlike in ESB, he looked more like a puppet rather than a character.
I think this is nostalgia talking because they used the same model as in the original trilogy
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:57:24 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Man I wish I could be as positive as you are about everything
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:26:19 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted] ยท 33 points ยท Posted at 18:52:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I really didnt like how they handled luke towars the end. I mean, why did he suddenly change his mind and stuff.
Plus why use a force projection if he was gonna die either way? Wouldve been more epic if he was actually there
Zenikz ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 22:31:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I saw the force projection as a way he could make himself seem more fearsome (and even younger by the looks) to egg on Kylo to come out and fight him to delay the First Orders push.
Especially as he didn't have his Saber anymore as Rey took it with her.
Not to mention I would have been more wondering how the actually hell he got off the planet and there in time as well if he wasn't a projection.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 23:41:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The force projection was showing Kylo powers he may never possess with the dark side and by not letting him get the satisfaction of killing him right there he emphasised his point about how he will always be there in his head if he killed him. It was epic to see him peacefully slip away after saving the day, people complain about Disney not doing something different but then also complain when they do.
Yeah, I didn't have any real issue with him dying, but there's a real weird narrative disconnect between him projecting himself to fool Kylo Ren and "die" only then to "die" right afterwards.
I mean, if Luke is going to die, the Checkhov's gunned his X-Wing earlier in the film. Just show up and pull an Obi Wan Kenobi...
You can give us something amazing like Rogue One and then shit all over us with this nonsense.
Visually stunning.
Dumb jokes at every turn, hey it's starting to build some drama, time to put in a bad joke.
Luke was totally wasted. I love Mark Hamil and everything he did in these movies was wasted.
Kylo remains a good character. Adam Driver is earning his paycheck.
Magic flying Leia was just bad. A disservice to her character and to Carries Legacy.
I'm just sad at what this movie turned out to be. I will watch again probably a few times just to absorb everything. But it will be at home on bluray. No repeat theatrical viewings.
[deleted] ยท 48 points ยท Posted at 19:13:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I really, really didn't like this movie. And I love Rian Johnson.
The Kellie Marie Tran character was awful, she CANNOT act and the entire subplot at the casino and her arc with Finn was horrible.
Too much green screen, the dialogue has not been that bad since the PT.
They played around with the lore of the force too much and it fucking sucked. Genuinely.
I watched the Force Awakens before going into Last Jedi and they feel like they were made by two different people with opposing ideas on how to proceed with a Star Wars film. Almost like Rian Johnson hated J.J. Abrams and wanted to undo everything he did. Canto Bright was dumb and pointless, Leia's force space thing was SUPER cringe and Snoke was wasted. Yoda's cameo was unnecessary and we're once again given the ultimate movie troupe of: If character A just sat down and spoke to character B then this wouldn't have happened.
It really felt like Rian Johnson just wanted to do his own thing and was forced to work with something laid out for him that he didn't want. He wants his OWN tools and his OWN canvas on which to paint and I get that but at the same time this felt very Disney-ish.
[deleted] ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 19:17:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
To summarize everyone's reviews:
"Watching TLJ is like watching a version of the OT if the Empire had won and remade the OT and is now selling a hollow, pandering facsimile they don't understand to ironically make more money off its subjects and distract them while it expands its empire. The parallel between Disney and the Empire is strong."
I remember playing Jedi Outcast , and the empire was just reduced to a few remnants and cells isolated from each other.
It was interesting and that setting could easily work the good guys don't have to be rag tag underdogs, and the bad guys don't have to really control the entire galaxy it could have been on a smaller scale.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 21:13:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It could even be that the good guys are wrestling with potentially becoming the empire they fought against
RedofPaw ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:05:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No. Not everyone is saying that. I for one enjoyed it a great deal.
Gotta say, glad that the "Just let Rian Johnson direct the next one too, I'm already certain TLJ is going to be the best Star Wars movie!" talk is dead.
Maybe we've learned our lesson to actually watch movies first before deciding they're masterpieces.
Fans haven't seen it yet, lol. This is the first large discussion of the movie, and the reception has been mixed at best. Bad word of mouth will get around more starting tonight
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:02:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Unfortunately you can tell it's a Marvel property now. Jokes every 30 seconds and weak villains everywhere. I enjoyed it but it's not Star Wars anymore.
no, you can tell that marvel and star wars are disney properties.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:29:46 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Weak villain? Kylo actually amazed me in this one, the way he was able to coerce Rey into joining him and tricking Snoke like that. Hes a better villain than most Star wars antagonists so far.
Siglyr ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:39:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's not?? Aren't they 2 completely different studios? I know they're Disney but it doesn't mean 1 person has creative control over the whole thing...
C-doc ยท 74 points ยท Posted at 13:00:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly one of the worst Star Wars films Iโve seen
The reality is that Rogue One was a nostalgic and stiltily edited film, but it took some risks and managed to expand the mythology beyond Jedi protagonists and lightsabers.
Despite my reservations with Rogue One, it was at least joyful about including the things Star Wars fans wanted to see in a Star Wars movie (real Stormtroopers, real X-Wings, real TIE Fighters, etc) and then took the story out of Space Opera mode and inserted it into the war film genre. If you didn't at least find some enjoyment in Rogue One, I honestly feel bad for you, because it means you've lost the ability to recognize the fact that Star Wars' mythology is strong enough to tell more personal, ground-level stories. Rogue One is the only "good" Star Wars film since the 80s, lol.
And I like RLM but their review of Rogue One is the only time I've ever vehemently disagreed with them and questioned how they missed the mark so widely.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:12:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rogue One has the best scene of the entire franchise.
It's almost like people didn't need to sit and think this time but had a dislike of it immediately.
BroVival ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 13:22:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I don't really like the movie. The CGI was fantastic, no question about that! Those ice foxes, the lightspeed crash and everything else.... incredible work. But just like in episode 7 i don't like what Star Wars became. I couldn't really feel any tension, because in every f#cking scene anyone makes a stupid joke. Besides that this is a Star Wars movie that would have been funny, but i think it destroys any tension.
And when Leia uses the force to get back from space into the ship... She has the force, she is not a f#cking plane. I think it was not epic, it was just awkward/cringy.
And I also don't like the recycling of so many things from the old movies... that salt planet with the bunker: It's the same situation like in episode 5 (evil guys attack, rebels have to defend themselves until they can get away..), the base looks exactly like on hoth so that they explicitly have to say that the floor is salt and NOT snow...
I don't know if this is a problem from star wars or just a general problem in movies nowadays but i don't really see any innovative or new storys, which makes the movie just too predictable. A friend of mine was annoyed by me beacuse I bet with him what would happen next and I was right like 80% of the time. I could predict half of the movie just by knowing how movies like this are nowadays and I expect better from Star Wars than this.
What are your thought about those points I made?
P.S: Sorry for any language mistakes I made, english is not my native language
I wholeheartedly agree on the similarities between Hoth and the salt planet. It was poorly executed and not even near as great as Hoth was. The line about it being salt felt out of place and was quite useless.
I think you are also right about movies being predictable nowadays. I get that the studios want to play it safe but this is ruining movies altogether in the long run. Besides this is SW they can go off the beaten path and have it still be successful.
[deleted] ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 16:26:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:38:51 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He scarified himself to save everyone at the end. How is that not brave?
I disagree. Dying in a space battle is a standard death and fitting for the character. Dying offscreen due to food poisoning would a shitty way to die.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 23:07:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
What was the point of portraying Snoke as this hideous full of scars dude if you're not going to explain anything about him. Why not just some regular dude?
But hey... look at the bright side. At least wee know about Rose's traumatic childhood and what her necklace is made of. LUL
MrReesh ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 02:04:54 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm so glad the majority of you see the huge, huge issues with this film, as it seems no reviewer on the planet can find fault with it.
Just the fate of Luke Skywalker, the intergalactic legend who brought balance to the force, is enough to really marr the film in my eyes. His ghost died, and then he died. Basically force ghosts work like your avatar in The Matrix.
alfiejs ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 13:59:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ok, most important question. Did Chewbacca eat that little roasted guy or not?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:34:13 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone notice how bad the dubbing was in some scenes?
There was a scene where... uhh that purple haired woman was talking to Poe and shes facing away from the camera. You can see her mouth moving but she isnt saying anything.
Then you can see her mouth moving but you can tell the spoken words and clearly completely different from what she was actually saying.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:19:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I noticed that too. Luckily I only noticed it at that one spot.
Wait, so how long was Rey on that planet, but still came in time to save them at the end? I thought the rebels only had like 12 hours before they would be killed?
Yet all the time Kylo is doing shit he's still talking to Rey and Rey is flying around to different places. Did all this take place while the rebels were being chased?
RedofPaw ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:01:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just like in empire with lukes training and cloud City.
Nebarik ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 12:45:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Stupid question. I saw this in Korea so there were a lot of Korean subtitles everywhere.
When a character gets re introduced there was a little title card with their name and what they did in previous movies. Something star wars hasn't done before.
That was in the English version too right?
goofan ยท 99 points ยท Posted at 12:51:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nope, must be a korean thing. That sounds hilariously out of place.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:33:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That sounds hilariously out of place.
I would love to see it. Like how everyone was introduced in Suicide Squad. Hahahahahahaha!
Nebarik ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 12:57:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Awesome.
The rest of the movie felt really different to the other starwarses already, the title cards (in English and Korean) felt kind of in place in terms of the movie going for a different style.
Iโll probably go see it again over the weekend so Iโll try to get a sneaky snapshot for you. The cards had the English and the Korean there too. So it would say something like โSnoke: The Evil Supreme Leader of the First Order and Kylo Renโs master.โ And then have the Korean under it.
Oh my god! Thank you for clearing that up! I also saw it in Korea and I was wondering the exact same thing! It was so jarring. I sat there thinking like, โThatโs Luke... I know who Luke is... why are you telling me who Luke is?โ
f1mxli ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:05:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Saw it in Mexico. The subtitles were out of place sometimes, but no character sheets
[deleted] ยท 34 points ยท Posted at 15:21:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So it seems this shit is worse than the previous 2 movies?
I dunno, I really enjoyed Rogue One for how joyfully it took everything Star Wars fans wanted to see in a Star Wars movie (original X-Wings and TIE Fighters, original Stormtroopers, original Star Destroyers, etc) and then took a risk with it and thrust the Star Wars mythology into a "The Dirty Dozen" style war film. Rogue One has a lot of issues, mostly its stilted editing and extraneous Mouse-added scenes which seem to have obviously replaced story elements. But I found myself able to look past them and enjoy it pretty much start to finish, aside from that weird borgullet scene that gets half-forgotten afterwards (they'd have been better off explaining his frantic behavior in the cell as being drugged).
As far as worse than TFA? I dunno. I hated TFA's flat characters and plotline that just chugs along without any logical ties to previous scenes, and the endless convenience and contrivance required to get it from start to conclusion.
I don't think TLJ is a great movie by any means. I called it a 3/5 if you go to the movies for character and dialog and story, and I think that's fair. But I have very little emotional investment in Star Wars. It seems to be the hardcore fans who hate it the most. I just thought it felt like a bloated episode of a TV show that has too much humor in it which causes its tone to shift far too often and wrecks most of the dramatic tension.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:30:09 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No-go in and watch it yourself.
scredeye ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:50:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Make your own opinion. This was the strongest of the three Disney's star wars movies imo.
hoffd ยท 49 points ยท Posted at 10:43:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
People are annoyed about Leia's flying and stuff (don't get me wrong, it annoyed the fucked out of me aswell) but the scope and scale of the movie was miniscule, the smallest it's ever been in a star wars movie. I was expecting the whole escaping from the first order plot line to be a short escape, but alas it was pretty much the whole movie. When I realised it will be the main plot, I felt ripped off, thinking to myself, "Really? Is this it?" Very lazy if you asked me, and if the whole casino plan was taken out of the movie and they just escape creating a new plotline, it would have made the movie more enjoyable for me.
It didnt feel like star wars if it's over that short period of a day or two. (They literally count down how much fuel they have left). It also makes no sense, how does the resistance only have 6 hours of fuel left when we see Rey with Luke over the course of what seems like days? The plot lines are connected, there is no way that Rey being with Luke was before the whole "escaping" plotline. Overall however, not terrible, nor the greatest star wars movie. Will definitely see it again tho.
๐๏ธ unipleb ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 10:53:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think the scale and timeline is what bothered me as well; it seemed like the scope of a confined spin-off movie. Half way through the movie when the focus was on Finn I found myself feeling a bit disappointed that this was the story being told. But I did really enjoy the Ray/Ben story-line, and felt like this was interesting enough to save the whole movie and made it really enjoyable for me in the end.
DJ_B0B ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 12:04:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I totally agree with you on how monotonous the main escape plot was. Adding that to the cliche protegee scenes on Luke's island, I actually enjoyed the casino planet as a break
Luke has moved his x wing with his powers and Yoda has moved huge rocks with his. So not really that huge of a leap to think that a Jedi can't just force move themselves to fly. I had issues with the Leia flying thing because she really hasn't had any real jedi training so for her to do such an advanced thing seems a bit of a cheesy cheat.
SgtAngua ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 11:42:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Eh, she's in space, all she's doing is pulling on the ship
nashist ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 12:46:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This would make sense if ANY OTHER SPACE TECHNICALITY WAS RESPECTED THROUGHOUT THE MOVIE
What you are saying is that there is gravity? The scene right beforehamd where the bomba drop down established that this can't be the case...
Jay-Em ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:01:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The scope and scale was no smaller than ESB, where half the film is taken up with Han and Leia on the run from the Empire while Luke interacts with Yoda on Dagobah.
tlvrtm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:18:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I see what you mean but I've always found there's no point to complaining what's not in a movie. The possibilities are endless for that, after all. You should judge the movie for what's in there -- and what's in there is gorgeous and pretty damn messy.
The film I just watched bore no resemblance to the critics reviews I read. 8.2 average critic rating? I know it's all subjective but that is ridiculous. It was a mess, there were scene (Rose, Leia flying through space) that were as bad as anything from the prequels.
It makes we wonder if there isn't going to be some kind of scandal emerging soon regarding Disney and the critics. All their films seem to get glowing reviews, even the not so good ones (this, Beauty and the Beast, Civil War, Antman, AoU).
Just came out of the movie. I was disappointed. It's a good, solid movie, but I felt empty coming out of it. Definitely doesn't crack my Top 10 or my Top 20 either. A lot of my friends coming out of the theater were disappointed as well.
I need more time to think on it. Feels like a wasted opportunity to me. The movie was doing so many things that none of the plots were concluded or paid off in a satisfying way.
When the official discussion comes out I'll expand greatly on what I liked and disliked.
Edit: The interactions between Kylo Ren and Rey were excellent. This is a different Star Wars film with new ideas and concepts but the execution was rough.
Oh boy, very very very disappointed with this. I think the writing was on the wall with that awful โthatโs fine Iโll holdโ banter with hux at the beginning. Too many attempts at light hearted humour, too many attempts at shoe horning in CGI animals that no one cares about, and just too predictable. Did you at any point genuinely feel like theyโd be beaten? Or that rose wouldnโt come down and save Finn at the end?
The whole rose/Finn subplot was incredibly dull. And then the corny speech about the light and then them 2 kissing and she passes out.
There were numerous moments in the cinema where the audience GROANED at the situations, such as Leia coming back and floating through space. I donโt know what I watched, by that was not a Star Wars film.
This film was perfectly summed up by someone walking out of the cinema, โwell that was fucking shiteโ
Iโd genuinely applaud them making that move, itโd be a shocker. But, for me, it was too obvious what was going to happen. Itโs a shame what happened to Finn this time, as he was one of my favourite parts of TFA.
Or that rose wouldnโt come down and save Finn at the end?
To be fair, by that point, I assumed Luke was going to fly in on his X-Wing and blow it up. I got fooled by Checkhov's gun when Rey looks at it resting underwater, and by that point in the film, I assumed the worst and most obviously cheesy resolution was the way they'd go with it.
It might be the only part of the film that surprised me, haha.
eff50 ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 20:43:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So, the Prequels doesn't look all that bad now, eh?
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 00:22:38 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Well you can't compare it to today's CGI. obviously
[deleted] ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 21:04:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
The Prequels were flawed but dared to be great and sometimes were. The Sequels...ehhh
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 00:12:54 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The prequels at least had reverence for the story and acknowledged what we wanted to see. The Last Jedi predicted our expectations and avoided them at every turn
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 01:55:18 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It doesn't make sense to avoid expectations just for the sake of it.
"You didn't expect Leia to fly through space like Superman, did you?" No, cause that's stupid.
Let's not go that far. I'll take a tepid remix of The Empire Strikes Back with Space Penguin-Hamsters before escalating numbers of lightsabers, Jar Jar Binks and itchy sand that gets everywhere.
TLJ is a letdown. The prequels are godawful. I think you're forgetting just how bad the prequels are with the Jamaican fishbunny who steps in the poopie.
So many pointless jokes. So much of the plot was predictable. Some extra foreshadowing here and there which wasnโt exactly subtle.
Half the shit didnโt even make sense, or at the very least was lazily explained.
It was just so Hollywood. Plus it felt like it went on for fucking ever. The whole Finn side mission was there purely for extra cinematics and the only way they could pointlessly get a kiss on screen. Dumb as fuck.
possibly one of the worst films I have ever seen, and I cannot even begin to fathom how so many people are acting like it's the second coming of Jesus.
The movie is rubbish, whatever happens to the heroes, doesn't matter! There's a solution! Oh they're in trouble again? doesn't matter, there's a solution! And again? Doesn't matter! and not mention, most of the bullshit that happens to the main characters is just plot induced stupidity. After a year of conspiracy theories of who Snoke is, fans are greeted with an abrupt killing off of him... That's it. Luke Skywalker Executive Jedi master of planet express ends the movie with an epic fight against his archenemsis Kylo Ren... Which doesn't matter because it wasn't Luke anyway, he was actually on an island the whole time and then he dies(?). Carrie Fischer who so fortunately died last year, is saved by some bullshit which I can only assume was the director thinking "let's give Leia the force."
{EDIT 2: It has come to my attention that Leia has always had the force... regardless the way she saves herself is still bullshit.}
Yoda is back as well! and he looks like a fucking gremlin... The whole plot seems to be comprised of cheesy 1 liners and I think it was actually directed by M. Night Shamylan.
Overall: 3/10 It started off fine but quickly went down the toilet, hopefully they can replace Shamylan with a director who actually knows what they're doing.
EDIT: Forgot to add that there are quite a few scenes which essentially have a huge explosion kill everyone except the main characters in the middle of the room...
Also before anyone says "Your grammar sucks" idgaf.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:34:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
It is just straight up terrible writing that half of the entire plot of this movie wouldnยดt have happened if this fucking idiot Holdo had just said "I have a plan". There was no logical reason for her to conceal that information and her turn around as a character was completely undeserved and weak.
Ship morale is at literally fucking 0. The crew is looking around thinking "well, weยดre fucked". Poe throws a tantrum on the bridge and everybody seems to echo his sentiments. A mutiny happens. Blaster fire is exchanged between allies... Then, suddenly "Lol, jk guys I actually had an escape plan the whole time". GEE YOU COULDN`T HAVE FUCKING LET US KNOW EARLIER YOU DUMB SHIT!?
Its made infinitely dumber by the fact that the instant Leia tells Poe about the plan he goes "hey thats a pretty good plan", much like any reasonable person would, and weยดre supposed to feel like heยดs a dumbass for going against the brass. The only dumbass in this situation is fucking Holdo, with one of the most inept displays of leadership I have ever witnessed.
Absolute mess. Snoke was such a menacing super villain and just as mysterious as Yoda was and they basically tossed him away with no backstory and way too early essentially making all that build up pointless.
I don't even know where to begin with all the plot holes... why didnt Admiral Holdo tell Poe her plans instead of talking down to him when he was still a resistance hero from the previous film? To create unnecessary tension? How on earth did Rey magically teleport back to the Falcon after the fight in the throne room (which was the only high point in the movie along side the Holdo kamikaze run). How did Finn drag rose all the way back to the base when they crashed feets away from the First Order? Why did Rose stop Finn from his kamikaze run when it could have stopped the First Order and rescued the Resistance?! She didn't know Luke Skywalker would Force hologram himself to save the day so she potentially doomed the whole resistance for their forced romance? Then again im not sure how they even managed to survive that far in when the blast that wrecked the ship they were captured on conveniently killed all other storm troopers except for Phasma for their underwhelming duel. Jesus i can keep going...
I just dont know what to say... i went in with high hopes and came out thoroughly disappointed and unsure of the future Episode 9. Rant over.
Ok, anyone else getting tired of Disney's formula of 'Action/adventure movie with random comedy movie popping through?'
Every Marvel movie and now Star Wars has this same tone of comedy interupting scenes in which it doesn't belong. This movie really went hard on that, and it just doesn't feel like Star Wars. It feels so similar to the MCU.
Also, am I wrong to think Rose is a worse character than Jar Jar? She was intolerable.
SSF2_OW ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:53:50 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You didn't love random unimportant character who was tacked on for no reason and had no purpose, did nothing of interest then kissed Finn for some reason? Wow, I'm shocked
aslost3 ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 17:47:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think Disney has released the shills on the poll.
No fucking way is this movie a 93%. Disney bought those reviews.
Minscota ยท 127 points ยท Posted at 12:08:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
This is my least favorite of the 8 films. They are turning starwars into marvel movies and the shoe horned in comedy is cringe.
There was almost no ground gained in the story at all. Say what you will about lucas, but he could at progress a story along.
Rose Is worse than JarJar, Leia becoming the force superman cringe, the fight scenes were great at times and disjointed in others.
Im baffled by this movie.
*Edit I just want to say this last thing. I knew disney would ruin starwars. They cant help themselves. I could start to see the turn around Rogue one. Disney see's starwars as a cash cow and nothing else.
[deleted] ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 15:02:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
disney sees star wars as a cash cow
And all the blind fanboys fail to realise this, because of disneys murder of star wars i keep the fact that im a star wars fan to myself.
What was bad about Rogue? They killed off an entire cast, I thought it was pretty un-Disney like
tlvrtm ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 16:40:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How are so many reviews saying this is "best since Empire Strikes Back"? Did they not see The Force Awakens, Rogue One or hell, even Revenge of the Sith? Yeah I'd rate all of those above this mess.
please don't ever compare any of the prequels to anything worth watching.
Nachti ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:44:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rose Is worse than JarJar
Okay, calm down there, mate. Rose is useless and all, but go watch Phantom Menace again.
Minscota ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 13:49:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I did over the last week to get ready for TLJ. The older I get the less he bothers me and honestly I think he was intended to be more in the movies until people bitched about him. Im a firm believer Jar jar was actually intended to be a sith.
Minscota ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 20:21:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They werent great, but they made sense. More than I can say for TLJ.
Rahdahdah ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 19:25:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Everybody Dies: The Movie
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 19:36:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
it really is like The Walking Dead. It's like they think they're being hip by killing off its characters but it seems like maybe they want to just punish us instead and then daring us to try and not watch the next movie.
That's the issue, you go into the movie knowing full well that certain characters have plot armor a mile thick because the actors are on multi-movie contracts, so when everyone else dies it just doesn't have as much of an impact because you knew you weren't going to see most of them again anyway.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:40:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
good point!
MEsiex ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 23:27:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The worst sw movie to date, I count prequels for that. The whole movie was so pointless, they reuse every single thing they can. So much forced comedy, that shouldn't take place. Luke's death is on par with padme's. Romance pushed just for the sake of it. A huge chunk of the "story" might have been just cut out if there was some real communication between characters.
I would break up your relationship with Star Wars if it's "the worst movie to date". Feel that cringe? That's what most of the humour in the film felt like everyone.
MEsiex ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 09:14:20 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
At first I didn't get your joke, but yeah that's exactly what the humour was like in the movie
caodalt ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 11:56:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So is Phasma really dead or is she going to show up again, this time with a cyborg body like Vader?
First off, the forced humour in this movie is almost cringe inducing at times. There was a few times I thought I was watching a robot chicken parody of star wars again, rather than an actual star wars movie.
I've never been so fucking disappointed at a villain as I was in what Snoke turned out to be. Building him up to be this incredibly powerful entity, only for him to be generic villain of the day #643. His death scene was absolutely retarded too, and I refuse to believe he couldn't see or sense what Kylo was actually doing. I digress, at least it led to one of the coolest scenes in the movie
The Kylo/Rey/Luke plot was legitimately great, I enjoyed their interactions and thought the writing was done well for that plot.
However, literally everything else in the movie fell flat. The main plot about the resistance was garbage, and felt like they were just trying force Carrie Fisher in to a main leading role, that she really didn't need to have.
Finns subplot was just awful, Rose has to be one of the worst characters to come out of a star wars movie since jar jar binks. She had literally no reason to exist and had no purpose in the movie, other than to "teach" finn some awful generic life lessons, and stupidly save his life
Overall, it's a fine movie, but that's it. I'm less interested to see how the next movie plays out compared to how I felt at the end of force awakens where I was dying to know what came next.
Fredvdp ยท 49 points ยท Posted at 11:52:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There was a few times I thought I was watching a robot chicken parody of star wars again, rather than an actual star wars movie.
The smoothing iron gag is definitely something that could have come out of Robot Chicken.
[deleted] ยท 49 points ยท Posted at 12:02:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh yeah that was the one point I actually laughed in the movie. Just wasnโt reading it right
peeorpoo ยท 53 points ยท Posted at 11:33:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Seconded. Rose is so damn useless that she feels like another Evangeline lily. The romantic subplot is just so cringe inducing. I really donโt get why so many Hollywood movies like to shoehorn a romantic subplot in.
Fredvdp ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 11:53:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Her heroic sacrifice was especially dumb, because it left Finn defenseless on the enemy's side of the battle.
nashist ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 12:32:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yet somehow he made it back, dragging her the whole time, going through a probably 20+miles field which at the time was being bombarded as fuck. Oh man...
I couldnt help but laugh at that scene. They are probably miles away from the resistance base and then maybe 2 minutes after the crash he is just dragging her lifeless body though the base going "MEDIC, WE NEED A MEDIC OVER HERE".
Good fucking lord
Fredvdp ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 12:37:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Plinkett review will be amazing.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:19:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In the theatre I almost yelled out "how the hell did he make it back?"
Yeah, she had no place in the movie really, she almost feels like a Rogue One character or something. Didn't really mesh well with a main episode imo.
I 100% on the romance thing too, yet another thing about this movie that felt forced and unnecessary
nommas ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:31:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yup, she irritated me too. I guess the weird awkward dialogue was a design choice because she's a weird awkward person? When she was introduced and was just crying with the necklace, I thought "wow that's a cool way to humanize the resistance and show the effects on background characters" but they had to ruin it by making her a main character.
She had a bunch of quirky one liners "need a ride!" and overall just felt forced. Robbing Finn of a badass sacrifice moment just so she could kiss him also felt a little forced.
"We save the things we love!" so why not let Finn save the resistance that he loves?
I felt that Finn was like a bit like a celebrity to Rose, she knew who he was and got all excited when she met him. I could definitely see that playing a part in how we fell in love with him so quickly, she had heard stories about him saving the day.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:35:42 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When she first met him all I got were knives and Scott pilgrim vibes
Rose knew about Finn for a lot longer. To her, he is a Resistance hero. Finn has only known Rose for less than a day which is why he was visibly taken aback when she kissed him.
I mean, not really though. The movie starts up almost exactly where TFA leaves off. So the adventure on Starkiller Base happened what, a week earlier? How much time took place between Starkiller Base and Rey going to find Luke? From Finnโs perspective no time passed at all. He passes out on Starkiller and wakes up on the ship at the start of TLJ.
So Rose hasnโt known about him that long, maybe enough so develop some hero worship feelings but I doubt it. Especially since any hero worship she had was destroyed when she saw him trying to leave the ship anyway.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 07:35:01 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The timeline was all kinds of messed up. Rey and Luke didnโt seem to match at all what was going on everywhere else. Was the end of force awakens a flash forward and some of TLJ takes place before that moment? Going by the time Finn and rose had to take out the shield Rey spent less than a day with Luke. It felt like it all took place immediately after the last one and then wrapped up in 24 hours
Yea, it really does feel messed up, you're absolutely right. Looking back on it the whole adventure does take place pretty much just over the course of a day. Start with the bombing run, then the hyperspace jump, then they have 16 hours of fuel (correct me if I'm wrong), then they escape to the Crait, battle, fade to black. Couldn't have been more then about a day. Which is strange considering Rey slept several times during that (although that can easily be explained by the days not being as long on that planet but still).
My real problem with the movie was that I didn't really want to watch what was going on on-screen at any given time due to the pacing. What I mean is that the Finn-Poe-Rose-Resistance plotline was this ticking clock, so I really wanted to see it resolved and everything seemed very urgent. So whenever the Luke-Kylo-Rey stuff came on, I wanted to see the Resistance because they are all about to die. On the other hand, the Luke-Kylo-Rey stuff was all much more interesting and had all the real main characters. So whenever they swapped back to the resistance I kept thinking, "Wait no! Now I want to see the Luke stuff because that mystery is getting good now!"
Point is, I every time they jump to the other plot I found myself wanting to watch the other plot and not what was actually happening.
Feels like they could have let the relationship build a little bit slower. Wouldn't the kiss have a lot more impact if you had to wait for the next movie to see it?
It's no different to super fans of boybands being 'in love' with the members
gcunit ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:08:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If it had been the other way round, the internet would be aghast at an unconsensual kiss forced upon a vulnerable woman, but as this film is pushing the feminism agenda it's ok for Rose to Kiss Finn...
Asiriya ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:55:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh shut up.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:12:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
It felt like she literally existed just so Finn had someone to talk to on his journey because they couldn't have him go off on his own
Rek07 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:34:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Iโm not sure why they made the new trio all have separate storylines. Finn and Ray are great together, Finn and Poe are great together, but instead they put Finn with someone new.
Star Wars does well in the Asian markets, in particular the toy industry....however this is a bit of a problem when they haven't cast any Asian actors in leadroles.
This is why it's obvious theyve written a role last minute to boost sales in Japan/China.
If they'd had made an Asian casting in one of the rebellion roles back in TFA Rose probably wouldn't have happened.
wicket42 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:08:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Her sister was the more interesting character In this film....
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:15:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with op, it's been almost 20 years since I wanted to see a character die so badly. Finally I thought she was a goner, cringe scene but at least she's dead! Nope she fucking survived, again for the 5th time.
Still mad at that. I thought that was a fantastic scene and would've been a great send off for him. But noooooope
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:22:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I feel stupid for thinking they'd let him die, he survived time and time again throughout the film, once he's surrounded by troopers and chrome lady and he still make it out.
tlvrtm ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:33:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Overall, it's a fine movie, but that's it. I'm less interested to see how the next movie plays out compared to how I felt at the end of force awakens where I was dying to know what came next.
Painful how true that is. TFA did a great job introducing some new characters, halfway through this I didn't care that much anymore. Shame, Rian's a great director and they've got fantastic acting talent. Story was a mess.
Malarazz ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:51:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Snoke's death scene was fantastic and very very fitting.
What's the alternative you were hoping for? After Rey gets her ass handed to her she just trains some more in episode 9 and is able to beat him?
NoxZ ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:12:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The irony IMO is people calling Snoke "generic villain #number" for being killed off when if he had turned out to be the Sidious-esque Big Bad for Episode 9 he would have been just as generic. Killing him off was the best move for the film and the trilogy. He was pointless as anything more than a poorly-explained evil force that had very little purpose.
Also the complaints about him "not seeing" Ren killing him just don't make sense to me. He did see him (hence the whole speech), but his hubris made him short-sighted in thinking Ren was 100% with him the whole time. That was actually clever to me.
I thought most of the humour was well delivered actually. Apart from the put a shirt on joke. I agree about Finnโs subplot though.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:20:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The hugs joke was bad and went on for too long, then all the damn penguins, the scene with chewie was funny but all the others... And how come all the animals had cute eyes? Damn horses with cute eyes...
erinu63 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:22:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Honest question, do you prefer humour from prequels (things like "so uncivilized", elevator scene from Grievous ship etc.)?
laman8096 ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 12:57:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, gotta say I prefer it to this Marvel-lite
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:24:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Luke throwing Anakin's lightsaber over his shoulder was so... Disney, I hated it, felt like unneeded comedy in what could've been a good way to show his distaste for the jedi.
Definitely, yes. Although they were corny and not written very well, it fit more in line with star wars and didn't complete take me out of the movie like the jokes in last jedi
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:13:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why is that every action movie tries to be a comedy these days? It's one of the big reasons why I've never really rated all of the new MCU movies that highly. Alternatively, the dedication to action is why movies like John Wick and Mad Max: Fury Road are praised so highly.
Zunthe ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:46:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
and I refuse to believe he couldn't see or sense what Kylo was actually doing.
He was seeing what Kylo was planning to do but just got the target wrong. He thought Kylo saw Rey as the opponent and not himself. At least that's how I saw it.
The film had some great parts but most of it was crap. Really bad directing ruined the film. I think the plot moved along alright but it was almost unbearable to watch most of the film. Horrible comedy, cring worthy scenes and cliche fest. Bad handling of loads of characters and shit new characters.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:42:21 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He could see it because kylo was doing it twice, every movement made was mimicked with his own saber so if snoke was sensing a saber turn he was also seeing one turn so it was masked.
Zunthe ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:12:49 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes but he could feel Kylo's anger as well, he thought Kylo would direct it at Rey because he was smug and thought he was above it, he became cocky and didn't see he was the target.
I refuse to believe he couldn't see or sense what Kylo was actually doing.
He did, but Kylo was so experienced with "mind reading" that he concealed his actual intentions perfectly. To paraphrase, Snoke said he could sense Kylo's unwavering conviction, and that he was turning the lightsaber towards its target - all of which was true.
elgosu ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:41:50 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
For Snoke, he was reading Kylo's intentions to strike down his "true enemy". He just never thought that would be him. The arrogance leading to his death is fitting. And he did earn it by humiliating Kylo earlier.
It's really not important who he is and where he comes from. I don't want to go through all that gain.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:39:59 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But it is. His apparent age means he had to have been somewhere in the timeline of films we have already seen when other people were supposedly in power and the only ones. There is no explanation given as to how a seemingly defeated empire are suddenly more powerful than ever. Every military group be it empire, order, republic or rebel or whatever we are calling them is run by whoever can act tough enough. There is no legitimate chain of command itโs like animals fighting to be the alpha.
rhm2084 ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 12:04:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was a good marvel movie
[deleted] ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 16:47:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Paid shills being deployed.
alleavel ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 14:09:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
ITT: Everyone hated it
Ratachu ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:18:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not really, they are more vocal about it I think. If you see revies by critics and Youtubers, they like it.
Minscota ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 14:19:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You mean people who were given special treatment and money to write favorable reviews?
Its well known disney punishes people and outlets for bad reviews.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:11:34 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ratachu ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:23:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
HAHahahaa. Do you know that they do the same with every Blockbuster? DCU including, and they have bad reviews. Donโt feed yourself with conspiracies.
Minscota ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:28:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Warner borthers isnt known for blacklisting people for bad reviews. Disney very much is and has been doing it for 20+ years.
Ratachu ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:39:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
You should read the article. Disney didnโt blacklist movie critic for bad reviews, they blacklist the outlet for investigating Disney political and business dealings on Anaheim. A shitty move by Disney but it hasnโt nothing to do with reviews.
Edit: Downvoted for saying the truth.
Minscota ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:42:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I did and it shows a history of disney going after people for unfavorable coverage. To pretend this is just a new practice is crazy.
Ratachu ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:47:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Do you really believe that Disney have bought 190+ critics? From all over the world? Iโm from Chile and even my local film critic liked the movie. Movies are subjective, but when 95% critics (people who watch more movies than the average joe many who studied film at University) disagree with you, I guess you donโt have a good taste on movies.
Minscota ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:50:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They are one of the largest multi national corporations in the world and valued at over a 100 billion dollars. Its not a stretch.
Ratachu ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:53:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What about the rotten Disney films? Cars 2? Tomorrowland? The new Pirates of the Caribbean? Did Disney failed to pay the critics here? Also Warner is a billion dollar corporation. They even own Rotten Tomates, but their DC films are still panned.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:44:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He didnt even say that argument, you did through paraphrasing ol, and then you argue against it
Literally so dumb you argue with yourself
Ratachu ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:41:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was sarcastic you fucking moron. You and the dude that says that all youtubers are dumb (including Kermode or the what the flick guys) are the idiots here. I guess teenagers Star Wars fans are fucking intelectual geniuses.
Menso ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:59:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How many Chile-bucks is Disney paying you to shill over there, friend?
Ratachu ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:01:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nothing, Iโm a middle class college student that loves cinema. And i guess i like fighting on the internet too.
CJ_Jones ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:34:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It ain't gonna win Oscars but neither would Independence Day but I enjoyed them and would recommend them.
Luke's arc : fearing Ben's power and dark side, hesitating to kill him. Closing himself from the force. Wanting to end the jedi religion. Redeeming himself by allowing the rebellion to escape. Dying peacefully.
Rey and Kylo's relationship
Kylo killing his master, to save Rey but also to rule the galaxy. He is still a monster.
Lightspeed kamikaze (visually)
The force hologram revelation
Bad part
The porgs are pretty funny when they are introduced but they get really annoying after 2 or 3 jokes.
Leia CGI superman in space (visually, and it kinda felt like a missed send off)
The fight between Phasma and Finn is very uninventive, I still don't get why Phasma's character is so important. It feels like a new Bobba Fett failed project. She looks cool but the writers have no idea how to use her. She might come back in episode 9 to get swallowed by a CGI creature.
Overall too much CGI / bad CGI in sunlight
A bit too much time spent on the island / it doesn't feel Rey has been trained at all
"Show don't tell" rule not always followed. Constant reminders of "They are going to be out of fuel soon, we need to hurry" or described emotional scars "not knowing your parents is your weakness" "your parents were nobodies"
Lightspeed kamikaze (Very nice of Holdo to sacrifice herself but the audience is just recovering from the fact that she isn't a stupid captain)
Very bad part
No chemistry between Finn and Rose. Everything felt forced.
The whole casino arc : it really felt like something out of the prequels. The escape was ridiculous and very ugly (you could feel the CGI budget running out).
The whole evacuation plot could have been a success if Holdo shared her plan with Poe. Nothing prevented her from doing that.
OVERALL
I still enjoyed the movie despite all its flaws. I don't think the movie is bad nor good. I think it could have been edited differently. Cut Rose and the casino's subplot for God's sake.
[deleted] ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 16:07:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I dislike Luke's arc in the movie. Why would Luke Skywalker be afraid of Ben's power and dark side? This is the guy who confronted 2 of the most powerful Sith in the galaxy, Darth Vader and Darth Sidious without completing his Jedi training. This is the guy who turned Darth Vader into Anakin Skywalker. So yea, why would he killed his OWN NEPHEW simply because he was afraid? That makes no sense at all.
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 17:29:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He faced Darth Vader and only bested him by embracing his anger.
He faced Sidious and got beaten like a redheaded step child until Vader went all redemption arc.
It's not unreasonable a guy with that track record was scared.
From what I see Ben is really strong with the force, more than Luke (he was instantly defeated once Ben woke up). Luke must have thought that if this raw power was turned to the dark side he would have not been able to contain it. On top of that, Snoke already had turned Ben to the dark side (still a mystery on how Snoke did that). So in a moment of weakness, he considered killing him, BUT he didn't go through with it (from what he says). I love it, this is a great tragedy where doubt and weakness actually created Kylo Ren.
The fight between Phasma and Finn is very uninventive, I still don't get why Phasma's character is so important. It feels like a new Bobba Fett failed project. She looks cool but the writers have no idea how to use her. She might come back in episode 9 to get swallowed by a CGI creature.
She seems to exist purely to give Finn a nemesis but so far this has been so poorly realised. My only hope is that she fell on a pile of syringes full of midichlorians and becomes some sort of burnt, badass new apprentice to Kylo (since I guess he needs an apprentice now and Rey isn't interested). ...bit if she appears in the next one, I'm sure it'll be more of the same, only her chrome dome is broken.
rebb1t ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 14:54:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And I thought The Phantom Menace was bad, this was a train wreck from start to finish.
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 16:18:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:14:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I rewatched it recently while completely blocking out Jar Jar and it was pretty enjoyable actually
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:35:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The movie is actually awesome until the get to Naboo. Viewers were seeing real Jedi for the first time, and it was great.
Feel extremely conflicted about this one. There was so much I loved about it. And so much I'm not so sure how I feel. My main issue with the film comes from how it essentially wipes the slate clean from TFA. I'm not sure I like that very much.
Snokes death was handled extremely well I thought, and I like that he was essentially just a plot device for Kylo to fall completely rather than Emporer 2.0. What I didn't like is how we didn't get anymore context about him. He's just Snoke, and that's all we know, and now he's dead.
Also, I'm not sure why all the hate for Leia's force scene, it was a real crowd pleaser in my screening.
It is by far the most character driven Star Wars, for better or for worse, and I think I will have to see it at least a couple more times to fully formulate an opinion about it, but for the moment I'm still uncertain about it's place in the franchise.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:12:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was character driven, sure, but there were barely any meaningful interaction between characters which made it fall flat imo.
nashist ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 12:25:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It is by far the most character driven Star Wars, for better or for worse,
This is very true. The whole third was AMAZING because of this. The rest... Well you said it.
Jay-Em ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:44:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I feel the same way as you; there were aspects I loved but other bits that I'm not sure what to think about.
Snoke's death was a great, unexpected subversion, but I can't believe we still know nothing about him.
Minscota ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 12:32:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The prequels were more character driven than this. They were also better movies that actually progressed the main story and that really says something because the prequels arent great.
Minscota ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 12:44:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They spent 3 movies building vader, building obi wan, building Queen Amidala, building Palpatine and the Jedi in general. Showing motivations, change in the characters over a long time period.
The reason people hated those three movies was because of how much time they spent building up characters and showing how the starwars universe was and worked politically. There was so much more depth to those movies, TLJ is the complete opposite. Its like a kid pool in a 5 year drought. Thats how shallow it is.
I'm not so sure people hated those movies because they spent time building characters and showing the politics. I think people hated those movies due to stilted dialogue and uninteresting direction for the most part. Quality of TLJ aside, im not sure you can argue it's direction was uninteresting?
Minscota ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 12:51:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I never said it was uninteresting. Im calling it shallow. Its not much better than a transformers movie besides some of the acting.
This movie only exists to justify the next generation of the movies beyond that it really means nothing to the overall story and didnt move the story at all.
As someone else stated. Its a spectacle and nothing else and its fine we disagree, but this movie did a disservice to fans and is aimed at brining in a new generation of kids who will buy toys. Its nothing more and thats sad.
I know you didn't ๐ I was just trying to say a positive about the movie. I'm extremely conflicted myself about my opinion on it. I'm not sure I'm ready to call it a disservice to the fans just yet though. It certainly has it flaws, but I do think there was a lot to love and enjoy about it. And regardless, it is the episode 8 we have and it always will be, perhaps we need time to accept that first?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:27:58 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think Empire was more character driven, and it was done in a much more coherent way
Kapoloo ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:26:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Tbh I think the reason for Snoke dying with no explanation of his background or past is so that it can be explained through a show/book/comic so that Disney can keep milking the cash cow.
I think the leia scene was well received by some out of sentiment for her actual death.
When Kylo chose not to fire on her and the other tie fighters did, she should have died right there.
It would have been a better sendoff for her character.
That scene absolutely had me cringing and I loved Leia. This movie did not honor her at all.
makz242 ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 19:26:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Was expecting a very dark n scary Snoke but left disappointed.
[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 21:30:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I can't believe Rian Johnsonhas a while Star Wars trilogy. Like this film has better direction at times than TFA but man.. if he couldn't tell this was bad there's a problem.
I think somewhere in the Last Jedi thereโs an absolutely fantastic 2 hr film. However so much screen time was wasted with pointless side plots when it should have been given to main characters. I found my self checking the time on more than one occasion which is something I should never have to do in a Star Wars movie. Luke and Kylo fight for what, two swings of a light saber? Thatโs the dramatic climax of these two characterโs relationship which is being established this entire film? Finn leaves the base, charges at the cannon, is saved and then walks back with Rose with absolutely no consequences, sure it shows heโs committed to the rebellion but thereโs no tension when characters can just walk about freely.
Thereโs some really nice character moments and a few truly perfect sequences (throne room) itโs just a shame that itโs bogged down by filler
All the hype about Snoke ended up worse than Smoke.
Al89nut ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 01:12:31 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Help me - if you join TFA and TLJ together, the entire time period covered is what, five or six days?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:01:56 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
TFA is over a longer period of time but yeah the last jedi was much less not even 2 days.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 05:15:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Episode 7 in my opinion was a rehash of Episode 4 and a money grab. Episode 8 was pointless in my opinion not furthering the plot. This whole trilogy is just a cash cow. Six films were enough.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:22:52 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I donยดt wanna get too deep into conspiracy territory but I feel like every Disney SW movie is preceded by reviews featuring liberal use of the term "best Star Wars movie ever", and then people see it and go "eh. It was ok I guess".
Its uncanny how reviewers who are usually quite harsh on superhero movies tend to be so nice to these starwars flicks with the same "humour" and "plots"
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 22:54:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
For the Luke thing it wasnt a minute, it was a split second.
I assume it was the idea he can save many lives by killing Ben now. I dunno doesn't seem to crazy that for a split second he considers it.
SSF2_OW ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:50:36 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The guy believed he could redeem space Hitler, but he's now going to murder his own family, who he's known for the entire child's life, who he has raised, in his sleep? Just straight up murder some kid. That's something Luke would do?
"Oh shit this guys even darker than I thought, hes going to kill thousands of people, hes going to be Darth Vader v2"
"I could save all those lives if I kill him right now"
"No I cant do it"
End.
So yes you're right killing a kid in his sleep isnt something Luke would do. Thats why he didnt do it. Did you miss that part?
God, what are they doing with the whole force/Star Wars mythos?
It used to be a rare and exclusive talent. Now, I get that it's more PC to make out that anybody can have it, that it's not heritable, that it's not an elite talent, that the street sweeper has it. But it totally ruins the mystery and intrigue about Rey's parents, about Snoke, about how rare it is, and everything that has come before. Rey is now officially a Mary-Sue because it can happen to anyone, no explanation required. This goes against everything that has come before.
That's my main criticism, before all the others. It's becoming YA sci-fi. I'm out.
[deleted] ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 19:00:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
While people didn't like Rey being as powerful as she was in TFA I assumed in Ep8 they would explain why (like she was trained at a young age but something went wrong and she had he memory wiped). But because of Ep8 she is now a Mary-Sue character.
[deleted] ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 18:57:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Exactly. Every meaningful relationship in the series is rendered pointless because of this idiocy. The force is passed on, like height or IQ. This change ruins the previous films arcs.
Still better backstory than Anakin being born by the force. I think in the IX they will show Knights of Ren training and connection between Kylo-Luke-Snoke. It would piss me off if they cut the Snoke story by killing him
I'd like to hear what people thought of Poe in this movie, because I felt that his characterisation this time vastly undercuts what we know of him, his rationality and his leadership skills which he demonstrated in The Force Awakens. Besides Poe being the best pilot the Resistance has, we've seen that he keeps calm under pressure and helps to make strategic plans as part of the Resistance committee.
Suddenly he's an egoistic and impulsive commander who thought he would be promoted. But he wasn't, so he's not happy with his new boss, disobeys direct orders and makes half-assed plans on the sly? I can't wrap my head around this new Poe.
I just want to clarify that Poe is one of my favourite characters, and it broke my heart to see him act out like this in this movie.
It was okay, not terrible but not very good. There are some excellent shots and ideas but a lot of poorly constructed exploration of those ideas to the point of laughter sometimes. The tone was inconsistent as was a lot of the narrative. It was like a 6/10, bang average. So why is it so well reviewed?
I just want to say I think the failures of this film can be chocked down to the failures of TFA
It was a completely uninspired sequel that treated many of the accomplishments in the original trilogy as failures and it rubbed me the wrong way. It didn't do anything new to the series either.
I really wanted to see that reversing of situations in the new sequels. Where the New Republic had become well off and soft and the enemy they faced weren't a bunch of powerful super evil enemies with good plans but a bunch of radical terrorists struggling to inflict as much damage as possible in the name of a despised ideology.
I think the chances for a good post-9/11 star wars film that analyzed and Drew parallels to the us rebellion that former our republic and the one of the original trilogy were missed out on. And that saddens me because it would of been an obvious and ingenious direction to go with with the film.
The movie leaves me thinking "what is the point of anything anyone has done in the history of these movies?"
Nothing has ever lasted. No one fighting for peace has ever achieved it. No empire or republic that has risen has been able to stand against a Deus ex machina nuclear machine created by a bunch of seperatists or a kid who shot rats on a shithole desert planet.
Why would anyone have hope for any rebellion or resistance when it always goes so wrong in this universe?
This movie reminds me of Man Of Steel but it plays out those theological and thematic arguments in all the wrong way.
It's like if Superman saving the planet ended up killing a lot of people AND making everything worse for everyone for ever. It's nihilistic in a way.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:03:17 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It even tarnished the Force Awakens by disregarding a lot of what it built up. Rian Johnson is a fucking hipster
But what TFA built up is stupid. Snoke is a lame clone of the emperor. Rey is a placeholder character. And Kylo is a Anakin clone.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:54:09 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I feel the same. tfa was never more than a pale imitation of anh. tlj is just making it more clear.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:51:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because Disney, despite the cinematic abortion known as Star Trek: Into Darkness, gave the keys to one of the biggest Hollywood hacks of all time (JJ Abrams).
Well, not entirely true. The Jedi lasted for "over a thousand generations."
While that kind of timespan is bafflingly long, I think we ought to give the Jedi credit if they can maintain peace for over 20,000 years assuming Star Wars uses the same approximate generational cohorts, lol.
Rory-mcfc ยท 54 points ยท Posted at 10:43:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Didnโt enjoy it at all when I walked out last night. Iโve slept on it now and I donโt think it was as bad as I thought, just really disappointing. When I walked out of the cinema after TFA and Rogue One I was buzzing but after this I was just a bit dissatisfied. All my friends felt the same also which led to a few rants on the car ride home haha
It's a war story about soldiers on a desperate mission. What's important is that they are soldiers and have a mission. How much can you tell me about the eight Rangers from Saving Private Ryan? There was a guy from New York and we know this because his jacket said Brooklyn on it. And a guy who was Jewish and Tom Sizemore and Tom Hanks were buddies before D-Day. And without Googling did you realize there were actually only seven of them?
The criticism of Rogue One for "not having characters" always makes me wonder how many people watched Rogue One not realizing they weren't watching another space opera, lol. Put Star Wars in the title, and apparently everyone expects a singular kind of movie. The first time somebody tries to do something a little different with Star Wars, and people freak the fuck out.
Rogue One wasn't a better film, but was a lot more interesting imo. All the scenes of sitting around on the rebel ship and the Luke island stuff was pretty monotonous
Rogue one started badly, with awful pacing and loads of skips everywhere, however towards the last half of the film it was so awesome when I realised they were all going for a suicide mission instead of them all making it out somehow, found if really exciting, enjoyed it much more to what I watched last night.
I liked every single star wars movie including clone wars better than this one. This movie wouldn't even make m top 50 of favorote movies of all time, the old trilogy is 1-3.
Wow. Opinions I guess. For me, this is by far the best of the new movies. TFA and Rogue One did nothing for me in terms of breaking new ground and introducing new concepts, while this film was everything I wanted and more.
Sw3Et ยท 50 points ยท Posted at 11:30:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I wish this movie was fan fiction since that would have been way better then this piece of shit.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 18:07:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I just wonder how they managed to get a cgi ghost yoda look more crap than prequel-yoda and even original muppet-yoda.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:41:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was a puppet...
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:08:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lol really?
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 20:13:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
100 percent. I think there's a consencus that the first 10 seconds is CGI, because it looked off, but after that? In the close ups? Yeah, that was a puppet.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:24:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wow
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:39:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The prequels gonna start getting more credit after the sequels lol
BobTurnip ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 21:52:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Based on this movie, I have made the definite decision not to pay to see another Star Wars movie ever again. I thought it was that bad. A complete mess, which strips the story of the OT of its entire point and purpose, disrespecting the characters from that story (including the memory of Carrie Fisher), leaving only the iconography of that art served up cold as a bunch of marketing gimmicks, bad jokes and pointless characters. I hated it, and I'm so disappointed. The only thing I look forward to now is Red Letter Media's review of it.
Seriously, who thought space superman leia was a good idea?
BobTurnip ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 22:14:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
She does the superman thing, then spends the rest of the movie either in a coma, or just sitting around. So stupid. They could so easily have given Leia a powerful, graceful and fitting sendoff of some kind, at least in post production, but they seem to have lacked the ability to do anything with an ounce grace or coherence in this movie. Likewise, Luke is the beloved hero of the OT. His character deserves better than a lazy, flip-flopping, grumpy old man who can suddenly force-ghost himself whilst still alive and then evaporate. WTF ?
Disrespectful to the characters, the actors and the original movies.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:19:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think they wanted to give Luke and Leia their reunion moment at the end of the film.
I imagine there will be a timejump and she will have passed away off camera.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:36:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I reckon they would have changed or reshot that part but since she passed away they kept everything as is.
Flinn's story didnt go nowhere and super leia was laughable. Also, take a close look at the lighting swords during the fight scenes and the choreography, they should have hired a dozen of hong kong's martial artists...
This. I might get downvotes for this but over the next few years I suspect the prequels will be (rightfully, IMO), accepted as a masterpiece by Lucas.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:23:51 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Eh, episode 1 and 2 are really not good at all. They have a lot of flaws. Just cause this movie is also bad, doesn't mean they were masterpieces.
But I can concede that Lucas was at least trying to do something different. This movies goes right back to Empire vs Rebels. They basically invalidate what happened in the original trilogy.
SSF2_OW ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:13:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
For me, the prequels sit in a category of flawed but good films. They are star wars to a T. They built worlds, and characters, they live and breathe star wars. Sure there's too much CGI, there's Jar Jar, there's some awful dialogue but I can live with that because they give me everything I want from an expansion of the star wars universe.
The sequel trilogy so far has given me nothing from a star wars universe. They currently sit in the category of flawed and bad. (Okay TFA was passable, but it's way too derivative, it's not a bad film per se)
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:51:53 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
there was enough good to balance the bad to say as a trilogy it's a flawed masterpiece
Definitely need to see this again, but I will go in a month in an almost empty theater to try to make sense of it.
There is a part that's a copy of ROTJ, where Snoke has this master plan and everything is hopeless and he shows Rey the rebellion dying, it's straight from ROTJ. But in ROTJ this moment of hopelessness lasted very little , and the Emperor failed because he didn't take the ewoks into account as primitive as they were.
In this movie that state lasts pretty much the entire movie. And they keep inventing things that delayed the rebels demise from incompetence of the officers, to some pretty convoluted events,taking out a fleet with a hyperspace jump , conveniently positioned rebel base, double crosses, and fake double crosses, Lukes distraction.I don't know it felt like too much. ROTJ kept things pretty simple
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:11:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
so basically Johnson went full Brick: convolution hiding behind cleverness
kievrob ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:01:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So Holdo (Laura Dern's name, right?) didn't want to be a hero, just to help the light, and that's her redemption to us in the audience who thought she was a bit of a jerk.
But then why did she leave her entire crew in the dark, and allowed them to lose enough morale to start a mutiny. Why didn't she just say "I'm not a coward Poe, there's a rebel base like 10 minutes from here, that's why I'm taking the escape pods".
Did I miss something?
LDKCP ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:06:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When that knowledge became available the First Order found out pretty fast. It was a simple need to know basis, a command structure plan. This is Poe's fuck up.
"You're Luke Skywalker"
"I was"
"You're LUKE. SKYWALKER"
"I was....wanna meditate?"
"Sure"
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 00:56:10 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My big complaint about the movie is the scale of it.
We're told that the First Order has somehow managed to take over the entire freaking galaxy, because somehow the half dozen planets it destroyed in the last movie managed to destroy the entire Galactic Republic (what?) and now only Leia's "Resistance" stands in their way... which even at the start of the movie seems to be only a few hundred strong.
You'd think that taking over the entire freaking galaxy would be a pretty tall order for the First Order, which in the last movie was apparently just some fringe movement at the edge of the galaxy. So you'd assume that the senior leadership of the First Order might be busy coordinating the tens of thousands of starships which are currently busy taking control of the vast number of planets which make up the inhabited regions of the galaxy. But nope, the entire senior leadership of the First Order (an old man, a moody teenager, and a red-headed dimwit whom nobody in the entire script respects or fears) seems to be here, chasing down a few hundred underequipped dudes. They certainly don't seem to have any awareness that there might be other goings-on elsewhere that deserve their attention.
An entire galaxy-wide conflict seems to have fewer combatants than the average English soccer match.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:10:14 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Okay, so there are not two factions in the universe right now but 3
At the start of TFA, The New Republic are basically ruling what the Old Republic did. The First Order is fringe group at the Outer Rim that is very well supplied as its the successor to the Empire. The Resistance is under control of Leia and split off from the New Republic because they believed the First Order were a much bigger threat. After the events of the original trilogy, the New Republic massively downsized their army by about 90%.The Resistance seems to have the majority of that amount
At the end of TFA, the Resistance is all but wiped out by the Starkiller Base. A fraction of ships remained and managed to escape.
The first Order now have a strong military against a very weak Republic whose main fighting force was decimated. So they can take over the galaxy relatively easily. However at this point they basically do not have control as this is immediately post TFA
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:40:24 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
All of which sorta makes sense when it's explained, but none of it is shown on screen.
So this movie did the typical 3 diverging storyline bits like other Star Wars movies and I must say, I wasn't a fan of 2 of them. Movie was only interesting IMO during the Rey/Skywalker parts of the movie.
Did I miss something in the significance of the final planet being lined with salt? It seemed weird to have a character mention it but it not be important later on
lorez77 ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 11:33:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
As I was watching it yesterday I got a strong feeling of the creators moving from one set piece to the next without purpose, without character development or meaningful dialogue (the only bit I liked was the one when Yoda talks about the importance of mistakes but that too was trite). And deja vu (โI sense conflict in youโ, etc. forgive me if the quote isnโt 100 percent correct, I had to watch it in Italian). It was better than episode VII but it would have taken Lucas at his worst to do worse.
Agree (except for when you say that it was better than 7). It looked like they really wanted to remake scenes from ESB and ROTJ with minor twists at the end that were mostly irrelevant. The entire plot was created around these moments. The only good one was the development of Kylo, especially after the snoke scene.
Absolute embarrassment. Star Wars is now made and marketed for โdudebrosโ and girls who used to think any guy who likes Star Wars is โweirdโ and โcreepy.โ
FanEu7 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:09:07 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm no fan of this movie or TFA but what do you mean with that?
Luke tries to assassinate Kylo Ren....for some reason...instead of trying to help him....for some reason?
Complete shift in tone that makes this feel more like an Avengers / Guardians of the Galaxy movie more than a Star Wars movie
Snoke gets built up as the BBEG, no details on who he is are shared, and then he dies like a bitch. Apparently in the Star Wars universe leaving unattended lightsabers at your side is a good idea especially when you're in a room full of force users
Really bad fight choreography such as CGI Luke doing Matrix-style dodges which made him look like CGI Yoda from Episode II
That Casino shit
Critics will lap this up, fanboys will lap this up; but everyone will remember that this was the film that killed the Star Wars franchise.
As someone who grew up with the OT, invested hundreds of hours in the games, books, comics, and cartoons, this was the moment where I decided I no longer cared about Star Wars. It's just not interesting anymore.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 16:10:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like the best thing to come out of this movie, is the eventual GIF response you can post when someone is salty, with that guy picking off the white stuff of the ground, putting it in his mouth, spitting it out and saying "Salt."
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:52:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
i can't wait for the gif of leia poppins.
wicket42 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:58:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Or Luke drinking that milk with a shit eating grin
genida ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:12:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
All other things aside I'm a liiiittle peeved that Rey goes from scavenging nobody to facing Supreme Leader Snoke with near unwavering zeal in what... about a week? Two at most? It felt like it moved real fast. She definitely went from desert to 'this lightsaber calls to you!' in about two days, tops, and facing down Kylo Ren the day after that.
How much time is spent in hyperdrive in general? How much time did Finn and Rey really have in getting to know each other? How long was she on the island with Luke? Was the entirety of her training really done in a day or two?
What's the timeline here? Everything feels a bit rushed.
Nawpo ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:49:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's sufficient time to be an unstoppable ninja who kills a dozen trained guards.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:56:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's just it. They needed to give this story time to breathe. It feels claustrophobic.
Jezamiah ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 21:15:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone else just gutted that they're trying to pair Rose and Finn? All that chemistry from TFA and they just shoehorn Rose in.
Apart from their subplot which honestly felt useless I just didn't buy the romantic involvement with Rose in the end. I know Rey doesn't need a love interest and it may be better if she doesn't but seeing her look in the distance at Finn just left me bummed.
They sure couldn't pair Finn and Rey. They need to sell Rey action figures and Halloween costumes. As progressive on race as America likes to think it is, they wouldn't tolerate their snow white princess Rey being paired with someone of Finn's race.
That's it exactly. For all the diversity in the films they still shy away from having a white girl hook up with a black guy.
greeb666 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:04:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Have you seen iron sky? Just curious.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 23:14:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My biggest problem with both of these films is that they tried to do so much that they kind of fucked up everything. Theyre too long, too hectic, and in the end no individual moment means that much. I think a fan cut that chops both down to a tight 100 minutes would make a big difference.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:33:19 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lot of hate in the thread so far, but I personally loved it. Great 2nd movie of a trilogy. Yeah, the scope was very contained, but honestly so was Empire's.
Going into it you know they had to sweep Snoke and Luke off so Rey and Kylo could take centre stage, and I didn't mind snoke being a bit of a let down. His arrogance ending with him being just another scheming villian mirrored Luke's arrogance of thinking he was someone unimportant well.
My only real criticism is that the casino planet could have been cut right down,and the fact that I don't understand how bombers drop bombs like that in zero gravity
Also, Adam Driver's head is way too small for that beefy a torso.
erinu63 ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 12:18:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Bomber ship had it's own gravity, cus she was falling down, same with remote. Once bombs leave ships gravity they regain momentum, I guess (how ships gravity work is better question).
Well, to be fair, all the ships (at least that I can recall) in Star Wars have gravity, so the bomber ones having gravity too is only logical. But yes, how they have gravity is never explained, but considering they solved how to travel in the speed of light in that universe, artificial gravity on their ships might not be a big leap.
How the dropped bombs in space though, that's still an open question I guess. Especially considering that when Leia flew out of her ship, she certainly seemed to be weightless.
I was disappointed that TFA was too safe, as a reboot copied ANH a bit too much, I still enjoyed it though. But TLJ totally eclipses TFA, takes risks, so many twists. Agreed on canto bight casino scene (although the seeds of new Jedi to be discovered was shown in the last scene) and I thought there was cheesy comedy in scenes that should be more serious. Overall loved it, some flaws. Im not someone that says best star wars since ESB crazy, I grew up on the prequels so I can appreciate the strengths and weaknesses of all star wars films enjoying them all
Fakayana ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:58:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I can appreciate the strengths and weaknesses of all star wars films enjoying them all.
I think more people needs to learn to adopt this view. I love the OT for the great movies (characters, story, editing) they are. I really like the prequels for the immense worldbuilding they did, and how it kickstarted a renaissance for the Expanded Universe. I love that the sequels have our beloved characters developed in a believable manner.
Like, people might complain that Leia's fake-out death is unnecessary, but no one is complaining that the character Leia is ruined. No one is arguing whether Luke would've really ignited his lightsaber on the heat of emotions, it's something unexpected of our childhood hero, but not unbelievable.
leia was force sensitive but not trained, able to sense loved ones and some force communication. Not out of the question but a bit cheesy, the directors execution was the problem for me
Leckere ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:35:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Iโve seen lots of comments about taking risks but Iโm not sure I really recognise a) there being many, and b) them being a success or worth taking.
Im not someone that says best star wars since ESB crazy
But it could be though. The only real competition it has is RotJ. Prequel trilogy is worse, Force Awakens was not as good (too much a copy of New Hope) and Rogue One was not quite there (I think not actually being the 'dark and gritty war movie' we were promised spoiled it for me).
Those crazies might not be so crazy, depending on your view of just how good Return of the Jedi is.
I rate revenge of the sith highly, I personally like the prequels but yeah they aren't as good though RotS is quite good up there, RotJ wasn't liked by many for the Ewoks (beating stormtroopers a bit of a joke) and recycled death star. Although stormtroopers over the whole trilogy were useless, even in the sequel trilogy the first order is useless. Dreadnought neutralised by Poe alone and then one bomber, seems an armoured force with 30-40 years over 2 wars fighting against small lightly armed forces still can't defend against small lightly armed forces they are a shambles. Clone wars was at least fairly matched symmetric warfare, compared to unsymmetrical insurgencies.
Edit: though the first order did quell the speeder attack on Crait, still diverted all fighters to take on the millenium falcon
I think you're missreading a lot of the criticisms as hate. it's not hate. It's more frustration. Last Jedi came so close to being perfect but was let down by some really really obvious mistakes, painful humor that the director should of spotted before release. A new edit removing 30 odd minutes would turn this from 3/5 to 5/5
Jeanpuetz ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 14:48:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I am amazed at the negativity in this thread. It feels like people want to be contrarian. I absolutely loved this movie, and so did most reviewers.
Sure, there are some problems with the movie, but those are, imo, minor things that don't take away from the overall enjoyment.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 02:45:59 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My expectations were diving during the first hour, but once the film took that drastic turn, I loved every single moment.
Youโd think the movie was terrible by reading these comments.
I honestly though Driver's jacked body was CGI after seeing him all thin and emaciated in Silence last year. God bless those Hollywood workout routines
Jay-Em ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:53:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, the scope was very contained, but honestly so was Empire's.
Yeah, Empire actually takes place on a very small scale, and that's one of my favourite things about it. Han and Leia on the run from the Empire is just a vehicle to explore those characters while Luke is with Yoda. In terms of the galactic civil war, very little happens - we don't even see the Rebel fleet until the end - it's all about Han and Leia growing closer while Vader grows increasingly impatient and kills various Admirals.
In The Last Jedi, I guess the casino subplot is meant to serve the same purpose, but it doesn't quite have the character moments that ESB did.
Ratachu ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:34:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I donโt fucking understand people. The movie is great, Iโm with the critics here. Yes there are flaws but all movies have flaws. I was entertained, I think they did justice to Luke. Adam Driver and Daisy Ridley were great. The cinematography was top notch, there were small pacing problems in the first act, but after that the movie starts going on and on until the final claimatic end. I also liked Poe, I think that they really develop him in this movie.
Asiriya ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 00:01:39 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's massive pacing problems, huge logic problems, and worst of all it was boring for long stretches. The Jedi were cool, I loved Snoke and I didn't mind him passing away. But we had a long film and not enough of it was spent on the characters. They're going to need to do a lot of work in the next movie, I don't think it can work.
Just wanna reply to your first point: I agree, I loved it too. But there's so much ridiculous hate on boards all over. People criticised TFA to kingdom come because it was "too safe" or "a rehash".
Well now you have something that's totally unsafe and really giving us something different for a Wars flick- but not the criticism is "it's not Wars enough" or "it's not the classic Wars!"
Nothing will ever be good enough for the fanboy-dom because we exalt the OT and constantly find reasons to shit on new stuff while ignoring the faults of the classic films. It's just absurd.
Asiriya ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:03:21 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is just a plain bad film. It's nothing to do with Star Wars (though I felt the tone was off), my issues with the film are filmmaking issues - pacing,l and script primarily.
Nzash ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:29:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"This soup is too cold!"
"This soup is too hot!"
Maybe they should try and hit the middle? I hate people who just dismiss any criticism with crap like "Oh whatever, fanboys would complain regardless." Hell, as it stands now it turns out that TFA was actually a better Star Wars movie than this Marvelesque abomination.
Please consider that people are unhappy for a reason and it's not as simple as "they'd hate it anyway no matter how good it is".
-rabid- ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:02:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, absolutely nothing about those bombers made any sense whatsover. They just wanted space-Lancasters so they had space-Lancasters. (or space-B-17's for the Americans)
except they didnt have to sweep them off to let the others take center stage. they couldve just came up with a story that made sense and would naturally revolve around these characters in a way that feels natural. instead they forced them into a shitty story and just killed off the only interesting characters for cheap shock value.
I was surprised. I really liked Rian's Looper, and Rogue One gave me a hope that I can like star wars movies.
tlvrtm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:21:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Same, so much talent on-board. Still optimistic about his trilogy despite not really liking this one.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:33:02 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was surprised and looking back I should have seen it coming
Lundorff ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 23:13:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I am kinda shocked to even think this way, but despite its many, many, many flaws, the new trilogy (1-3) felt more like Star Wars than this farce. Why couldn't they just have continued the foundation from TFA :/
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:51:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I loved TFA, even though it was a bit safe it was a perfect foundation to be expanded upon. TLJ doesn't expand upon TFA, TLJ fucking destroys it while adding nothing. It felt more like a shitty Sequel Trilogy reboot than a TFA sequel.
rhllor ยท 42 points ยท Posted at 11:06:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Not a Star Wars fan but I watch all the movies in theatres on release day (OT during the 1997 rerelease). Gotta say that the fight with Snoke's guards (omg awesome costume design) is my favorite scene. Not Snoke's death, not Rey and Ben's fight - but the two of them facing the guards.
I also liked all the animals especially that one with the humongous boobies looking at Rey like "you know you want some".
I think itโs incredible how the reviews are on completely different ends of the spectrum from everyone here. People saying this movie was worse than The Phantom Menace. This all doesnโt line up to me. Anyone that says they liked the movie gets downvotes hard.
I suppose the feedback on here right now is from SW fans who've seen it on opening day, the general audience (and many reviewers) might have different expectations. If there were a Reddit review aggregator the score would probably go up in a few days when more casual moviegoers see it.
I mean it was like a lot of these people were mostly looking for reasons to hate the movie. But damn the reactions on here youโd think they murdered the entire franchise with this movie.
I wouldn't say it's murdered the entire franchise, but my enthusiasm for Episode IX is in critical condition! The trailer/buzz for IX in 2019 is going to have to deliver a bloody massive shot of adrenaline to revive it.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:35:23 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean you can, but whatโs likely going on is you built up your hype so much and it didnโt live up to your insane amount of hype and youโre disappointed.
It's just a theory but I would put it down to expectations of a rabid fan base versus judging a film on it's merits. No film could realistically measure up to the amount of scrutiny this one has had. Every fan seems to have already had the film play out in their head for the last two years - how could the actual film live up to all of that?
The original trilogy was meant to be just a fun, hopefully exciting space adventure that nodded back to the serials of Lucas' childhood - nothing more, nothing less. The fact that there's a section of people that have obsessively given details and back stories to every little thing in that series has made Lucas a very rich man.
The downside is that there is absolutely zero chance any new films could match the expectations of that obsessive fan base, especially since they are now adults and expect a lot more than the simple story lines and dodgy acting of the originals
As long as the new films inspire the imaginations of todays youth then they will have done their job.
The original trilogy was meant to be just a fun, hopefully exciting space adventure that nodded back to the serials of Lucas' childhood - nothing more, nothing less. The fact that there's a section of people that have obsessively given details and back stories to every little thing in that series has made Lucas a very rich man.
I'm not sure that's true. The original "Star Wars" was incredibly expensive for its time, when most directors were shooting contemporary adult dramas that required very little in the way of special effects or production. The sheer amount that Lucas invested into the first movie in his series suggested that he was very serious about setting a new direction in movie making, one very different from the other movies of the time.
And Lucas's own film was itself "obsessive" over "details and back stories" - it was very obvious that he had built an entire world and that one movie was just a short snapshot of it, something which again was very different from nearly every other movie of the time. Lucas himself was the first obsessed "Star Wars" fan.
The fact that so many lightweight popcorn movies have tried to be imitations of "Star Wars" is simply a credit to what the film achieved. But Lucas took his own film seriously enough that I don't think it's what he intended for it to be.
I think it's more than that, though. r/movies has a lot of respect for movie makers that are true to their cinematic universe, and a lot of hate for movie makers that depart wildly from it - particularly to make room for merchandising or familiar cliches that they think will help sell the movie. On the other hand, critics and general audiences tend to take movies one at a time, and aren't particularly beholden to cinematic universe considerations.
I think the r/movies approach is correct, though. Moviemakers that go to great lengths to be true to their cinematic universe just end up making better movies - "Harry Potter", "The Lord of the Rings", "Mad Max", etc.
Sellout movies that try to move merchandise and please general audiences often end up being clunkers that maybe cover their costs in ticket sales, but don't have any kind of lasting impact on audiences. The perfect example here is obviously "The Hobbit" (same movie maker, ironically, but a very different approach), as well as many of the comic book movies released over the last few years.
See I thought (although she was only in it for a few secs) was super satisfying. She got her time to shine.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 14:51:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Rey beats Kylo again?? Fuck off with that ma-rey sue bullshit
tlvrtm ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:20:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Does she? Seems like a tie to me? They even gave an explanation why he lost the first time, for what it's worth. Of course she's a bit Mary Sue regardless.
bedbugsex ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 15:43:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sure she's a mary sue but why would you expect this to be different? If someone already beat you they're probably going to beat you again.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:46:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Luke vs vader
Anakin vs Dooku
They both trained and worked for it, mary sue didnt
When we saw that me and my brother both looked at each other grinning like idiots as we'd been joking about wanting to know that more than any other potential reveal.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 01:44:06 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
My post / review got removed (shadowbanned, tried to link it to an IRL friend and he couldn't see it), probably because they were too long and it ended up being detected as spam (5 lengthy posts submitted in succession).
Iโm trying not to cry right now. Iโve invested so much in this film and now it turns out itโs shit. I know all the reviews (probably written by Disney shills) say itโs โgoodโ but I donโt fucking care. Iโll try to convince everyone I know whoโs a fan of this series or who has kids who are fans to not see it. This hurts us all.
Would it be possible to file a claim for false advertising? Disney and Lucasfilm spent a massive amount of resources teasing mysteries that will never be solved.
Anyone else bothered by FTL being used as a super effective weapon (albeit kamikaze in this instance)? If that's possible, why do these armies even use blasters for ship combat? Just launch missiles of significant mass at FTL at each other for instakills. Shields are pointless. Missing your shots are not possible. Battles would be over in seconds not slugfests we see all the time...
Put it this way, this is fantasy (set in space) not sci-fi. There's no internal consistency and we shouldn't expect any. The more I analyze the more disappointed I am. I think I should just heed Mark Hamill's advice to enjoy it for what it is, to paraphrase him: it's just a movie to make money (entertain).
As a fellow critical thinker with discernment, I feel you may be on to something here.
Disney having established they will re-shoot things to fit their (now dumbed down and retarded) brand, your hypothesis here is probably the most accurate.
Rian "Jar Jar" Johnson, I feel, will do FANTASTIC things with a completely new storyline with characters with no historical context, no prior bias, interjecting his own crazy childhood fantasies into the movie he writes and directs.
But on THIS movie, of which he wrote in the fantastic life lesson of, "you learn best from your failures," well...
You failed, Rian. Learn from it.
geosarg ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 03:34:21 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ngl, I think I preferred the prequels to The Last Jedi, at least they had a some what decent plot, only one comic relief character (Jar Jar) rather than every character (Luke's cringy jokes made my childhood memories shudder and scream in pain), good music that makes you feel something at the right moments, larger scale battles, somewhat inventive and at least varied weaponry (not giant cannon this, giant cannon that).... Not to mention the lowkey bombardment of political correctness, snoke's anticlimactic death after being bigged up (I guess this was to show Kylo Ren's prowess and true strength, but it just made snoke look weak and foolish), the most disgusting part was the constant creation of unanswered questions, some of which are to make room for a 100 more Disney made Star Wars Films and the rest are just gaping plot holes.
TLDR I want Rian Johnson's head mounted on the tallest spire of the Disney castle.
ITT : it has a big lot of downs which surpass the ups, but it is named Star Wars and has lighsabers and the effect are good so I consider it decent enough
CJ_Jones ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:32:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
All of the negatives mentioned here don't surpass the positives for me. I enjoyed it, I would recommend it but I certainly have some noticeable quibbles with it all.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:15:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"Definitely mediocre in every way. 9/10 would watch again."
Fnhatic ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 02:45:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I really wanted to enjoy it, but I found it hard to get past Daisy Ridley's bad acting.
Then there's obviously the issue of the purple haired lady not telling her crew her plan which led to Finn and the Asian girl almost dieing, and Po trying to betray her.
It's weird, I think she was great in TFA, especially for somebody doing their first movie.
And really bad in this, like it takes a director/editor who just knows how to get the good bits. A lot more respect for JJ as I said that, I never realized that was a strength. It's similar with Xmen 2 to Xmen 3, suddenly it's like nobody can act, all because of a change in director it seems.
Waoeden ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:00:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think her acting improved for this movie
She was absolutely horrible in tfa
Nuranon ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 21:26:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lets agree that jump into the super stardestroyer was epic.
...and kinda misguided because it reveals a fatal flaw in how the mechanics of the Star Wars universe work - why not simply built big, heavy but cheap ships that jump into the enemy? From here on the question in face of defeat will always be why won't guy won't sacrifice himself and jump into the enemy flagship.
Minscota ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:04:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Might just look close but usually there's plenty of space no?
Nuranon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:37:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not kilometers which is the accuracy you would be looking at.
tilvast ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 00:52:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just out of interest, why is there such a disconnect so far between what the critics thought and what the fans thought? Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but is Disney in the habit of paying off critics or something?
I'm gonna say Disney didn't pay off every single critic and 0 of them declined or sole out about it.
Lots still loved it. Maybe it's just the hardcore fanboys that are always the most vocal that disliked it
radwimps ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 01:07:21 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
More forgiving compared to the SW fandom. GA will probably align more with the critics too.
I wanted Ade Edmondson to start shouting 'You complete bastards' and smashing his head thru the wall and consoles a la The Young Ones or Bottom.
Riddy86 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:34:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I seen the movie with friends, and we were 50/50 divided on this, at the end the little boy sweeping the floor with the broom, did he or did he not force pull the broom into his hand when it was leaning against the wall?
I'm 100% sure he did, some others said no.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:38:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Riddy86 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:37:23 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think its pretty special to be honest, and quite an important part of the story, thats just me maybe.
bob0201 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:07:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What i really liked was kylo not joining rey and killing snoke (sad wasted him) still suprised
But i missed some of the universe building not just rebel scum vs the first order
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:43:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
so like ROTJ only the execution was piss poor but hey at least it was "different" right?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:37:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm really torn on the movie, there were parts that i liked while there also parts that i hated. I liked the new character that they introduced but Snoke was a huge waste though im interested in Kylo being the main big bad in 9. Hamills performance was great but im not really sure what to think about Lukes death
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:45:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I might be talking nonsense here but I got strong Oliver Twist vibes from that kid at the end. Literally a Twist ending?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:20:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did Luke 'choose' to die? And if so, why? I know Obi Wan says 'If you strike me down I will become more powerful, etc', and that seemed to manifest in Obi Wan being able to contact Luke through the force as a spirit.
Luke has proven he can already do that, in an even more helpful way than Obi Wan ever could, so why did he need to die?
Pavleena ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:30:33 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
IIRC, during the first Rey/Ben bond scene, he says something like "you cannot be doing that, it would drain you of energy and you would die". So I guess it is a concept known to the Jedi.
Man..I must be doing something wrong because I loved the movie. Felt original (unlike TFA) and movie held my attention the entire time. Some humor felt forced (I can feel the force!) But it's something I can overlook. Fight scene in the throneroom was sick as well.
methwow ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:54:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You will find that most of the time the people who are happy about something have no reason to go public or post about it.. You will find more comments about people who hate stuff just due to the fact of disappointment and wanting to feel like others share there opinion.. It can be dangerous as it creates an echo chamber where opinions like yours are seen as "bad".
I have already seen the movie twice and I loved it more the second time, all my friends enjoyed the movie and some of them are hardcore fans. Not everybody hated it. I would say more liked it than hated it.
This thread is filled with all the people who hated it and none of the people who loved it. Most people, including the vast majority of reviewers, loved it, as shown by the ratings. Don't worry dude, you're certainly not alone.
Glad that I'm not the only one haha. Just suprised by the amount of bad reviews here.
Ratachu ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:02:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No. I think the majority of people like it (look at Rotten Tomatoes for instance), but the ones who hated it are a vocal minority. Itโs a solid movie for me.
tlvrtm ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 16:53:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
RT is critics, it seems likely audience score will be way lower than critics (this poll's at 6/10 for example). Pretty odd for a blockbuster movie.
Ratachu ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:14:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It has a 8.3 in IMDB and 4.0/5 on Letterboxd
tlvrtm ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:55:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What doesnโt have an 8.3 on IMDb right after launch? Justice League and Suicide Squad probably did too
Ratachu ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:57:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
tlvrtm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:06:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There might be a point to that. You would hope critics know a thing or two about whatโs needed in a good movie and they seem to love it. Doesnโt take away the feeling thereโs a lot of things seriously off about TLJ. And not in an โitโs so experimentalโ kind of way, just basic plot points going nowhere and that sort of thing.
Ratachu ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:10:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, the movie is not perfect. But it isnt terrible at all. At its worst is better than the prequels. Technically is very good: editing, cinematography, etc. There are some plot holes, yes and there are some weird scenes like the flying Leia one. But itโs not a bad movie. I think this movie will be praised more in the future than today.
tlvrtm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:56:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'd argue Revenge of the Sith left me about as mixed as TLJ did. Of course it's been ages since I've seen that but that also was a mixed bag of fantastic scenes, poor directing and occasional acting, very emotional, weird plot points, a lot less childish humour, fantastic final battle, great music, etc. Obviously, compared to that TLJ has much better directing, acting and visuals going.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:27:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How dare you? This is the thread where we wish the new movies were more like the prequels. This isn't the thread where we're entertained by an action-packed space opera. /s
junonboi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:25:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Same, itโs definitely my favorite Star Wars movie, the story is exciting, action scenes are amazing, the dramatic scenes are beautifully acted, and I like most of the jokes, I donโt really care about the opinion is become to Marvel-ly or Disney-y, good movie is good movie
The scenes when the first order ship got split maybe one of the most beautiful scene Iโve seen this year
Most of my friends who have watched it also agree it is their best Star Wars experience
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chuiboy ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:31:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
In this movie a lot is revealed and many of the fan-theories get dismantled in disappointing ways. Before going to watch this movie I already knew that it couldn't be that great given the weak characters introduced in the first film. Throughout the movie, you will feel almost no emotional attachment or relatability to any of the characters. In fact, the most emotional scene is when an asian woman sacrifices herself to destroy a dreadnought, and even then the commercials are still more emotional. There are a lot of characters in this movie that I did not like. Rey and Finn are boring as usual, General Hux just seems like an unrealistic villain you'd get in a cartoon, Snoke is a disappointing afterthought (you learn nothing about him and he just dies), and Kylo is just confusing. The acting as well isn't great.
The plot also has its issues. For example, there is a subplot where Finn, Rose and BB8 are sent on a secret mission (by Poe) to some planet and then to the enemy ship in an attempt to disable the tracking device and save the Republic fleet. They fail and it turns out that there was already a plan to save the people but Laura Dern decided not to tell anyone resulting in a mission that ended up having no purpose and took up an hour of screentime. There is also a weird scene in the movie in which Finn and Rose are surrounded by stormtroopers and are about to be executed and then the ship takes a hit. When it cuts back to the Finn and Rose, the stormtroopers are nowhere to be seen and later appear from another room. It really feels like these movies are written in under 2 weeks a month before production.
I may be the only one that feels this way, but I also found it annoying when the camera cut to a character who would say something inconsequential like "Damn Right!" and then after 2 seconds cuts to another character who says something like "Woohoo!". Another thing that I didn't like that is also common in superhero movies is the forced humor. Why can't these type of movies be serious anymore? However, having said that I'd still give some credit to Rian Johnson for taking some risks with the movie.
I was largely disappointed with this film. That is all.
[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 11:59:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My first reaction after coming out of TLJ was, "OK, that was a lot of movie, I need some time to think about this." Which is usually a good sign in my book, as I find better movies linger (and ESB wasn't initially liked by audiences either.) A day later, I know I liked it, but yeah, it's overstuffed. Thanks to Rian Johnson's writing and direction, in my eyes this is probably the most competently made and visually stunning of all Star Wars movies. I liked its social commentary as well, even though it was delivered through the clunkiest subplot in the film, one that never justified its existence. My biggest issue with the film is the combination of some characters having plot armor, while the sacrifices that do happen aren't necessarily earned (unlike Rogue One). Poe Dameron's entire arc following the opening scene was also a miscalculation. That said, nearly everything involving Luke, Rey and the First Order was gold. And when it's firing on all cylinders, it is the best crafted Star Wars film to date. When it's at its worst, it's everything you feared Disney would do with the property. Thankfully the former far outweighs the latter. I'd give it a solid 7/10, likely to improve upon rewatches. I think initial audience reactions will be polarising, but it will age better than TFA did, it just has more... integrity, if that makes any sense, compromised as it may be by the Disney corporate machine.
Yeah. My snap reaction was that it was amazing, thanks to the visuals. But I'm coming around to your view more and more by the hour.
Faoeoa ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:50:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Your views describe it the most to me; a lot to love and a lot to dislike but it's still good to some extent.
cueyo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:02:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm starting to see this trend in the comments (haven't watched it yet but I really don't care about plot). It feels as if this movie is kinda like the Kid A of Star Wars films...
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:07:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'd compare it more to Amnesiac and Hail to the Thief, the movie's still trying to sell too many toys to be compared to Kid A.
cueyo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:12:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I need to rewatch definitely, but I feel disappointed by this film tbh. The casino place felt very Hunger Games to me, and Leia flying back to the ship really confused me.
Also, I'm confused by Captain Phasma in this film, is she dead or not? Feels like a waste if she is. Same goes for Snoke actually, since he's like a zombie already, it seems weird he'd die just from being stabbed and I don't know whether to believe he's actually dead or not because of it.
DamoWoo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:18:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Are you for real about Snoke, dude got cleanly bisected! He's out
Yeah but he's basically a zombie anyway, he looks like he's died before! I feel annoyed that he's gone without a good backstory, but I think it's possible he'll be back.
Yeah I feel that too, I actually feel like The Force Awakens was a better film, it set up a lot of interesting things that this movie (for me) just wasted. And totally agree on the characters who were killed off.
I'm leaning towards that too re: TFA. I was disappointed with TFA when it came out, but it had a tough job to re-establish the franchise and introduced some interesting new characters, so I was forgiving of its flaws and excited to see where the story would go next. After seeing TLJ.... I don't know that I care that much. What plot threads has it left to pick up? The death/writing out of Leia? Luke returning as a Force ghost? The brat with the broom? A response to the Resistance's call for help? JJ has a tough job coming up with a satisfying end to this trilogy, I don't think Rian gave him much to work with.
I'm not sure how to feel about a new trilogy being given to RJ either if it's based on how Disney liked this film. I love Star WArs, I really don't want to see it become a YA franchise like Hunger Games, Divergent and Maze Runner. Those films aren't bad, but I want better for Star Wars.
Hmmm fair point, I haven't given his trilogy much thought yet. Personally, I don't care that much about the new characters in this trilogy - I don't feel like I have any "ownership" over them so am just along for the ride, I don't mind where their story goes... whereas I do care about how the legacy characters are handled because we're seeing the continuation (or rather conclusion) of stories dating back 40 years... and I'm not really that satisfied with many of the decisions that have been made where they're concerned. So, if Rian's supposed to be doing a completely new trilogy unconnected to anything else, then I have no stake in that story - it's just a blank slate that I can come to without any preconceptions or hopes. You're probably right that it will skew towards a younger (or at least teen/tween) audience, I just hope there'll be other SW material being made which caters to older fans too.
The movie kind of brought closure to me, the scene with Leia and Luke together broke me. The ending with the two suns just like the "beginning" wow. Couple things i disliked though. You can basically remove finn, that chick and Whoah "MASTER CODEBRAKARAKT" from the movie and nothing would have changed. Felt so forced to me. One scene when they escape down the sewers i think and when the search team enters they apparently walk over the grate in ths floor, second person says block all exits and then after he notices the whole in the floor and says look. Abd the lack of lightsaber duelling.... what a pathetic ending for Snoke.
Svarec ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:11:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I have mixed feelings about this one. Overall, I enjoyed it. New characters are great, old characters are handled well and their interactions are done exactly as they should have been. Mark Hamill was AMAZING and I hope this opens some door for him, because I definitelly want to see more of him in major movies. The whole movie has excellent cinematography and CGI and it's amazing to look at.
Now for the things I don't like so much. Basically: the plot. First, it's way too long. The entire Finn & Rose storyline is completely pointless and slows down the movie. Could have done it without the whole hacking plot. Come to think if it, literally everyting with Resistence in first 90 minutes is basically pointless and it's just a filler until Rey comes back.
Can't help it, but Snoke is a joke. They established him well in the first movie as a mysterious, powerful villain, only to throw it all out. You can't just estabilish a villain so powerful & old without giving him some backstory on where he was during the original trilogy and how he rose to power. As for the twist, I legit did not see that coming and in hindsight, it was the best way the script could have taken. One minor pet peeve: it was a stupid decision to show us the lightsaber turning towards Snoke beforehand. The scene would have resonated much better if it wasn't hinted.
I also felt that the script is way too incoherent about character's abilities and power. Kylo and Rey keep shifting randomly from strong to weak back to strong again based on how the script needs it. Similar with Snoke. Also, how for god's sake is Hux still a general? The guy just keeps fucking up.
Probably my major problem with this movie: not much happens. Resistence and Order are basically in the same position as in the beginning, Finn and Poe have no development, basically the only thing that changes is the position of Rey and Kylo. Too little plot progress for a 2h30m movie.
If we were to base our knowledge of The Emperor on only the original trilogy, weโd have no idea on his backstory either.
Same with a lot of those original characters.
Jabba, Bobba Fett, Han, Obi Wan, Vader, Tarkin etc, which is why I canโt for the life of me, work out why everyone is so angry that every character hasnโt been fully fledged out or been given an illustrious backstory?
I mean theyโre literally making a Han Solo and Obi Wan movie because they have no back story, yet people literally hate this movie because Snoke is nothing but a bad guy that lost his head for a moment and got shanked.
Also, everyone seemed to be fine with Palpatine killing Plagueis in his sleep which is far more embarrassing then what happened to Snoke.
chili01 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:00:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Great visuals and I like most of the Cinematography.
Story and continuation has tons of problem though.
AteketA ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:16:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That Leia moment was textbook in showing how to turn a great scene into a baffling awful one.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 03:46:32 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I purposely stayed away from any discussion on this film because I wanted an unbiased experience. I just left the theater. I hated it.
A lot of the movies have their flaws but they were great stores that allowed me to look past those flaws. I wish I could say the same thing for this movie. I hate it. Itโs bloated. The overall story is terrible with bits of interesting moments.
I'm absolutely gutted, I went into this film with really low expectations after the mediocre reviews but it was somehow so much worse than I could ever have imagined. I kept waiting for it to get good, but then it ended. The writing was terrible, the acting was sometimes abysmal, and I ended up hating characters that were actually likable from the force awakens. The only positive point of the film was Kylo.
[deleted] ยท 36 points ยท Posted at 12:20:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I went into this film with really low expectations after the mediocre reviews
? It has an 86% average on metacritic and 94% on rotten tomatoes with an average score of 8.2
This movie made Oscar Isaac unlikable. That shouldn't even be possible, yet it somehow did it. He is literally my favourite actor but here I was hoping that he would just die.
nashist ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 12:43:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Really enjoyed,
beat ten bells out of Force Awakens.
i'm really unsure why Leia became the 2001 space odyssey baby.
few too many extremely Disney jokes and didn't like Lukes departure. he should have gone in a blaze of glory, he deserved it.
LOVED the development of Kylo and Rey.
loved that Snoke wasn't anyone else and that Reys parents weren't anyone.
was odd how it was essentially a chase movie, but I liked it, totally different from the others.
some gorgeous cinematography, especially the lightspeed missile silent scene was gorgeous and the shot of Luke walking through the exploded door with the sunset behind it absolutely stunning
Just gonna jump in on your Kylo comment, and say Adam Driver was incredible in this. When he did the little hand flick to pull Lukeโs saber and kill him, I found that so awesome
Adam Driver has been one of my favorite actors since I saw him in Inside Llewyn Davis. Same goes for Oscar Isaac since Drive.
Akucera ยท 42 points ยท Posted at 11:51:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
lightspeed missile silent scene
Exceptionally well delivered.
And very, very poorly thought out. It completely defeats the point of even having weaponry on starships at all. There's no point in having X-wings or A-wings, no point in having cruisers or star destroyers or even Death Stars - when all it takes to fuck up a fleet is a single, well aimed hyperdrive-equipped starship.
The lightspeed missile scene showed us - and, if the characters are smart, showed them - that a starship travelling at lightspeed can and will punch a hole straight through whatever's aimed at (and anything behind and/or near it, too). In the next film, the resistance and the first order should both completely do away with having fleets at all, and instead replace them with unmanned, hyperdrive-equipped suicide ships. Want to destroy an enemy cruiser? Use one of your hyperdrive-suicide ships to punch a hole straight through it. Want to destroy a fucking planet? Don't bother with a Death Star, use one of your hyperdrive-suicide ships to punch a hole straight through it. In the next film the first order should simply roll up at resistance / new republic neighbourhoods in carriers filled to the brim with hyperdrive-suicide ships and do a driveby on whole solar systems.
Hyperdrive-suicide ships are the new meta. There's no point to anything else.
EDIT: Ya the ships should be built to be remote-controllable.
X-Wings or A-Wings would not do nearly the same amount of damage. It seems that the damage was done as she was in the stretchy lightshow bit before actually entering lightspeed. Which means you have to be at just the right distance, which just so happens to be within weapons range of large cruisers. And you need time to plot the course, which you won't have when the ship you're attacking isn't distracted by trying to annihilate the last of the Resistance in defenseless ships.
Holdo took the opportunity to pull off a manouvre at just the right time at just the right place. The dangers of such an attack are readily apparent in-universe. They flag up she's jumping to hyperspace but ignore it because they assume she's gonna zip off, maybe thinking to double bluff them that there's nobody in the transports. When they realise she's turned around they know exactly what's she's gonna do and scramble to take her out. By that point it's too late.
Akucera ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:22:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Holdo took the opportunity to pull off a manouvre at just the right time at just the right place
All R&D in the Star Wars universe should now focus on being able to allow cheap ships to consistently make those manouvres at just the right time and just the right place.
This is even more funny when you consider how many people died and how many ships were lost in the space fight in the beginning. The Resistance lost like 70% of its fleet at the start of the movie and then in the end, one person in a giant ship was able to wipe out pretty everyone.
Akucera ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:24:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly; coulda just achieved the same with, say, the medical cruiser.
the fact Laura Dern (cant remember her characters name) had to stay behind to keep the ship going shows, for some reason this isn't feasible or possible in some way
The fact Holdo had to stay behind to keep the ship going shows the director and the writers were lazy and didn't give too much thought or effort about the plot.
terrefpb ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:49:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
to 'raise the stakes' . There are also Droids they could use to pilot the kamikaze ships
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 13:09:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If every faction would just do away with regular ships/weaponry and exclusively start using hiperdrive-suicide ships then Star Wars would just become a cold war themed political thriller/drama lol.
Think this is just supposed to be a one time thing that's not really see as a viable option in-universe to destroy enemy ships.
Akucera ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 06:23:08 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Then it's a plot hole.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 12:54:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It Starwars, plotholes will be plugged.
"Parsecs" being a measurement of distance instead of time just meant that the Kessel run was filled with blackholes.
The Deathstar having a hole in it which allowed it to be destroyed was because the architect wanted it destroyed.
I'm sure in a year or two there will be some short story about why Snoke's ships shields failed in the moments just before the Rebel Ship rammed them.
Maybe it was because of Rey's and Kylo's duel, they tore apart the lightsaber moments before the ship hit. Maybe there was a shockwave.
WHY would you spend all the time and resources building these ships if youโre just going to destroy them intentionally? The Resistance do not have infinite resources especially after the Republic was destroyed.
Akucera ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:13:03 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
...because they instakill first order fleets?
malarky0 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:40:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is a problem in almost all space-based science fiction that has faster-than or lightspeed travel. Even an X-wing could cause civilization-ending levels of damage to a planet.
Akucera ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:21:22 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
See, I'd always assumed that, because nobody ever used hyperdrives as weapons in the Star Wars universe, hyperdrives pulled the ship into some sort of parallel dimension ("hyperspace") where they could travel at faster than light speeds and wouldn't interact much with surrounding matter.
Then in Star Wars 7, when Han makes a point about having to exit hyperspace at just the right time to avoid blowing up the Falcon while still arriving at Starkiller Base, I assumed that maybe hyperdrives made a bubble of warped space around the ship that let them move faster than light while still retaining the same kinetic energy. This would explain why hyperdrives aren't used as weapons, and why starships have to be careful about where and when they jump.
And then in Star Wars 8, they completely wipe both my theories off the table. Hyperdrives can be used as weapons as they do propel ships at FTL speeds and those ships can interact with ordinary matter.
Which begs the question; why didn't Han just hyperdrive the Falcon into Starkiller Base in episode 7? Or if the Falcon is too good for that ('that' being saving the fucking galaxy), why not use any other expendable ship and droid pilot?
malarky0 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:43:29 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I believe you're right, in that hyperdrive doesn't work like traditional FTL travel. From my recollection, they have to avoid large objects in hyperspace because of the gravitational displacement, not so much the physical mass. Since at the speeds they travel the galaxy in a starship, I'd imagine colliding with a single atom would cause cosmic levels of energy.
Waoeden ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 14:41:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
5/10 better than force awakens (0/10) but still a flawed movie
Spoilers.
Good points:
- Better acting. Daisy riddley and Carrier fisher got their act ( heh) together
Rey in island 'arc' .
Dueling scenes
Space battle scenes
The movie had some entertaining moments but all in all it was set back by the major bad points that are
Too many unfunny jokes. Stop it. Right now. Only marvel does it right. Everyone else it is just a stupid cringy scene that breaks the tension unecessairily
Too many cute animals/robots. STOP. Ewoks were irritating in 83, now we have ewoks EVERYWHERE. Even the new r2d2 is a ewok
Evil bb8. Facepalm
Gradma Leia FLYING THROUGH SPACE. Multiple facepalm. I actually laughed at the movies
-Snoke. Who is he? Where does he come from? What is he?
Who cares. Lets just kill him after 3 scenes without any backstory.
The plot. Thin as a paper and it seems to be going to a predictable ending where Kylo and Rey face off again and we know hr is going to lose because she is stronger than him.
By the way why she is stronger than him? Ow yeah. Political agenda. Rey is better, as a character , in this movie. But she is still a mary sue.
Casino " arc". Most boring 30 minutes in a blockbuster movie ever.
That is all i can remember. When the othrt issues come back to me i will edit this.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:21:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
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Waoeden ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:25:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The force awakens was too similar to a new hope.
And everything felt rushed because the characters where always running. The ''friendships'' felt shoehorned and the acting was absolutely horrible.
And death star. Another one. Blowed up again.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:08:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Even more of a ma-rey sue than the last film.
Waoeden ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:47:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ow yeah
Finn is still the worst sw character ever.
Even more annoying than jar jar binks
Rose character was super annoying. Her last scenes before she almost died ( gosh why the dont kill characters for a change? Besides the main cast) had her delivering one of the worst placed lines that i know of
" We win not by killing what we hate. But by saving what we love".
Or something like this
Multiple face palm
xdeltax97 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:50:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Iโm severely disappointed with how they basically did away with Phasma. Her backstory set her up as such an intriguing character. Besides that, the movie was wonderful and I really liked it.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:32:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I agree that this movie had great ups and downs, I'll list some things that I haven't seen discussed much yet.
Cons
For being 2.5hrs, many scenes felt rushed. Or the impact didn't hit like it was supposed to, on a lot of stuff.
Sooo many creatures that just seemed shoehorned in.
Creatures and background CGI was really bad in some spots. TFA I thought had great practical effects so what happened? Porgs aren't that cute when they look copy/pasted in a scene.
Didn't even try to redeem Phasma from TFA, so much hype for nothing.
Casino planet was an annoying series of ex-machinas.
Leia flying, Yoda lightning, and Finn's weird non-consensual kiss all kind of took me out of the movie. Like laugh and feel like I'm watching a prequel. Also shouldn't they have been shot a thousand times during the kiss/dragging her body back? I was hoping for it at that point.
BB-8 is OP and needs to be nerfed
Admiral Ackbar was my favorite character and he went out like a bitch with no emotional weight, while rando purple mid-life crisis hair chick got a heroic death.
Pros
Rey and Kylo's duel with the guards - amazing. Pretty much the only real duel we get but it's super cool.
Like many have said, subverting our expectations was nice to experience in a Star Wars movie.
The crystal planet was gorgeous, everything they did with that was really neat.
Unexpected Yoda, and ESB kind of Yoda
Maz looked like she was having a good time, hopefully we get more of her in 9.
Kylo's aggressive style still there
Luke getting fresh green titty milk all over his beard.
LDKCP ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 21:14:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The fact Admiral Ackbar was your favourite character means you are probably too invested to enjoy any future Star Wars.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 02:13:23 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well, this is the 6th bad Star Wars movie in a row I've seen (to me anyway), so it's old hat by now.
radwimps ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:23:48 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean the thread has 8k comments so it's hard to read them all, but there's plenty of criticism that I've read too. Honestly feels half and half there when you read peoples overall impressions, which is surprising.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:59:38 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You can't be reading the same thread.. also to accuse those in that sub of not seeing it is hilarious as they are generally the first ones to go.
I like this movie, I think it is because this movie gave many characters their moments to shine.
Admiral Holdo was like a boss when she did kamikaze, the people in my theater were cheered when that happened.
[deleted] ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 12:04:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I hated that moment after thinking about it for too long. It makes space battles irrelevant because it turns out a hyperdrive and a suicidal pilot is all you need to take down starships. And it should have been Ackbar because he deserved better and some of us already care about him
The Resistance is down to a handful of ships. Sure seems like they don't have the capacity to buy a bunch of hyperdrive kamikaze ships big enough to do some damage.
Exactly, you'd think the first order would be doing it all the time Jihad style given how expendable stormtrooper lives are.
ATLSM ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:17:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I imagine bombs/missiles are less expensive than unmanned tie bombers or star destroyers with a one time use.
Maybe the US and the rest of the world should've learnt from the kamikaze in Pearl Harbor and developed their airforce to be one time use only.
FletchM ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 11:59:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Someone in my cinema must have been making their own sound effects the whole movie. They let out a loud "zwooooop" just as the the scene went completely silent and cruiser cut through the destroyer. Everyone burst out laughing
mvals ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:05:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I really liked Holdo from that last Leia novel. She was fun. However, I think that moment would've been even more powerful if that ultimate sacrifice was made by a known character with a larger background in the universe. Admiral Ackbar would've been a fine choice for that heroic death, with far more emotional impact.
The throne room battle with the imperial guards has to be one of the coolest looking scenes in the franchise.
Elcatro ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:24:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I really wanted Rey & Kylo to join forces, would have made for a very interesting third film if both sides were portrayed sympathetically and you weren't sure who to root for.
I watched this movie, and I am very confused. I feel like it was a good movie but the last half just felt disappointing. The fact that essentially, if the main characters in the rebel plot had stayed put. Or the replacing admiral woman had just explained the damn plan, it would've worked. It just grinds too much with me despite loving everything until that resolution.
I've seen books pull off that sort of your actions fucked everything up plot brilliantly. Well of Ascension still gives me chills. But this movie goes with fail arcs while not being a tragedy in tone and it kind of left me unsatisfied.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:36:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's the thing. It's a pretty good movie (as a stand alone) but does it really make sense?
I'm confused. Is Rey a nobody or not? She said she had been to this 'island' in dreams. Out of all the lives in the galaxy she is randomly put in this position of power to change events of the future. If she has the same potential as Ben then who is to say others don't? Remember she found the force before anyone told her about it. She didn't see anyone use force pull, she just did it in TFA.
Also what the fuck is Snoke. He used the force like it's nothing as if the film is saying this guy is powerful. He bound two people, pushed a man around like he's nothing from his chamber and is able to read your mind and extract any information. So how the fuck does he not read Ben's intention? He literally says he knows what Ben is about to do. Yet he dies to it still?
There's so much wrong with this film ffs. I would go on but for now I think I need a second viewing to understand why it was the way it was. Credit to the Yoda scene though, that was pretty smart.
EDIT: Also can someone explain why Ben is retarded enough to think it was the real Luke when he ignited the saber that Ben and Rey tore apart using the force 10 minutes prior to the confrontation. ?????? Disney ??????
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:04:32 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Also can someone explain why Ben is retarded enough to think it was the real Luke when he ignited the saber that Ben and Rey tore apart using the force 10 minutes prior to the confrontation. ?????? Disney ??????
Luke could easily have had a different lightsaber, lukes one literally seems to be the most basic and common type and colour
Oh come on, the first time Ben saw it in TFA he said the saber belongs to him. Don't tell me he thought it was a different one because Luke was holding it.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:59:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This was not a good film, folks. I spent the last few hours trying desperately to defend it but cannot. They used us by abusing the characters and themes we loved. This may even be South Park โthey raped Lukeโ level stuff.
noobule ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 12:21:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I get why people didn't like this, but I thought it was very good. I felt like the part with the slow space 'seige' was too contrived and awkward and too complicated for Star Wars (they literally say "we're running low on Fuel Resources" at one point) but I thought everything around it was great
I don't know why everyone felt so uncomfortable about the Casino bit, my brother didn't like it either.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 12:34:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The casino felt too Earth-like. We're used to seeing humans in suits and slot machines, I don't want to recognize settings in a galaxy far far away. Didn't help that the subplot was a waste of time
Yeh but it's star wars. A massive galaxy with all types of planets and creatures, anything can be possible.
Also used to seeing humans in bars drinking, so what's so different about casinos?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:30:12 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
you must be truly desperate to go to jar jar for help
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:00:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
traject_ ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:19:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Both reaction threads on /r/movies and /r/starwars are negative. I'm surprised too; from the leaks I knew a good portion of hardcore fans wouldn't be happy but given great reviews I thought the response would have majority positive.
There is a lot of humour in it, there's always been moments of it in Star Wars but here it started to undercut some of the moments which I'd prefer were taken seriously - in a similar way to parts of Thor Ragnarok (since the Marvel comparisons are popular!)
Chewie + porgs? Sure! Poor downtrodden Caretakers? Great! Mad BantzTM between Poe and Hux, and ill-timed quips by Luke and Finn? Too much.
Could I get a cliffs notes version of the plot if this is spoilers anyway? I'm not sure I'm gonna go see it at the cinemas.
wicket42 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:08:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs the first order! Run away! Slowly! For like, 18 hours! Do we have an escape plan? No! But secretly yes! But Iโm not telling you for no reason! Ok well I have my own plan! Oh no your plan got everyone killed! Well howโs Rey doing?
Hi Luke train me? No. Please? No. Please? No. Hey Luke, itโs R2 D2! Will you train me now?
OK.
So Luke, why Kylo so bad? Oh I saw his future and he was probably definitely maybe gonna do some bad shit so I considered killing him...while standing over his bed...with an ignited lightsaber.
Hey Luke, that doesnโt sound like you! What happened to confronting the darkness in people and redeeming then? Wasnโt that your whole bag?
Hey fuck off rey you can leave now.
Hey kylo howโs it goin? Wanna go talk to snoke? Oh shit did you just cut snoke in half. Fuck this Iโm outie.
Hey Hux, wanna go all Hoth on these 15 rebel survivors? Letโs get all our shit down there to kill them ok? Iโm supreme leader kylo now btw.
Hi kylo Iโm Luke but not really Iโm just astral projecting haha youโre a jerk kylo. K Iโm just gonna straight up die now. Bye!
Iโm Princess Leia and I die 3 times in this movie and somehow Iโm still going to be in the next one even though Carrie is dead (rip)
Neknoh ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:22:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Leia force-pulled the door toward herself, she even has her hand out, however, since the door is attached to this enormous gigatonnage spaceship, and she's in space, she gets pulled toward the door instead.
RoryJohn ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:07:05 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What I found confusing was that Luke agreed with (just to be safe
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:36:19 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Luke agreed to teach Rey but saw the darkness in her first meditation lesson so didn't want to teach her further. When he met with Yoda he said that she had all that she would need. (I mean that is because she nicked the sacred texts but we don't find that out for a bit)
RoryJohn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:17:09 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ah yes ok, thank you! I read it wrong as Yoda trying to persuade Luke to train her further. I also wasn't sure if I caught the reveal of Rey rescuing the texts as it seemed like such a quick moment.
Thanks again!
I really didn't get the "let's hide in the metal planet-base thingy" plan. Couldn't they have just destroyed the First Order ship with the lightspeed crash in the first place? I mean a bunch of ships were destroyed on the way - thousands of people probably killed. Why didn't they abandon ship immediately, destroy the ship chasing them, and save all those lives?
Al89nut ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:14:40 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why didn't the First Order ships just jump a few hundred miles ahead of the fleeing Resistance fleet?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:20:20 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Don't think the idea occurred to her until the time when she did it
Dosca ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:09:32 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Didnโt they announce that the movie was finished like 3 months ahead of release? Like that was a good thing that the final cut was good to go? This movie couldโve used a re-edit to make the story MUCH more cohesive
I went in with few expectations. I did not spend hours theorizing. Hell, I'm not even that crazy about Star Wars; more of a Star Wars fan than any random movie-goer, but not as much as a fan on say /r/StarWars for example. I just watched it with my friends.
While I initially enjoyed it, and still look back on various scenes rather fondly, I feel like this movie can be summed up as a waste of time and potential. There were a lot of things that happened in the movie that had no consequence or payoff (like the Code-breaker subplot). Lots of strange character decisions, some made seemingly to cram in some sort of weird MCU-style joke, like when Luke completely threw away the lightsabre in the beginning of the film. It was so surreal to see that.
Plot points from TFA were completely dropped too. No, expecting Snoke to be more than just a throwaway random bad guy was not the audience's fault. He was set up to be more than that, but instead was just thrown away. Why? What was the point of him then? It's clear Rian Johnson just did not want Snoke to be a part of the trilogy, and would not have included him in VII had he made it, so he just gave him this lame send-off. And will Rey really get no explanation as to her power level? Her parents being nobodies is fine, Anakin came out of a random shit-hole as well. But why is she so powerful from the start without any prior training? Why does she only take hours or a couple of days to learn how to lift dozens of rocks, when Luke took way longer just to lift a single light ship? So bizarre, and here I was hoping they would explain something that made her less of a Mary Sue. Instead I got the opposite. :/
What was with the whole Rose and Finn thing? Even Finn himself seemed super confused when she went in for that kiss at the end. And what was her reasoning again? "We fight not to kill the ones we hate, but protect the ones we love"? What, protect the ones you love by T-boning them with a fucking spaceship? Sure. I mean, I didn't want him to die, but the way he was pulled out of that situation and Rose's justification for what she did was so retarded and cheesy.
I enjoyed moments of the movie, such as Leia's force usage (even though it could have been executed a bit less... strangely), Luke's character overall, the lightspeed kamikaze etc. but as a whole I just can't like it. I might rewatch this a few months down the line and see what I think then, but for now I'm just underwhelmed, disappointed, and just sad at the waste that this movie ended up being.
Doglatine ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 17:24:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Apparently I'm one of the few people who really liked this movie. I was really unimpressed with TFA, quite liked Rogue One, but this was my favourite of the new movies. A few things I really liked -
lots of shades of grey. Benicio del Toro's character emphasized this, but it was there in the headbutting between Poe and the Resistance leaders, and in the tension between Snoke and Kylo.
I loved the telepresence scenes with Kylo and Rey. It built them a weird relationship that paid off later.
I liked the pacing. Star Wars can sometimes feel like a whistlestop CGI driven tour of random planets over vague timescales, but there was a real unity and focus to the action here, as events play out over a few days at most.
I liked how they handled Luke's character a lot. He's a grumpy cynical old man. His acerbic humor fitted his character, whereas a lot of the jokes in TFA felt gratuitous.
Poe Dameron is becoming a much more distinct and interesting character. He's the Maverick archetype, but they also explored the flipside of his aggression and daring, namely that it doesn't always pay off. L
I liked the fact that Rey made some stupid fuck ups and was the butt of jokes. Previously she'd been a bit too much of a Mary Sue for my liking.
The fact that her parents were nobodies was a lovely twist and much more in keeping with the grounded, slighter grimmer tone of this.
Fewer plot holes than usual for a JJ Abrams movie. The only one that bugged me was the hyperspace suicide run (why don't they use this more often?).
Loads more I could say but overall I was very impressed.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:00:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Man the negativity in here is bonkers. Anyone with anything remotely positive to say is downvoted.
Well I don't recall who said that but a universe created by someone isn't his property, meaning that Star Wars is owned by both the fans and Lucas in a way that he can't mess things up without us unable to yell because it's HIS property.
That said, I think the problem with SW is that now people think it's theirs. You had TFA that was too much of ANH, people disliked it. Now you've got a movie trying new things, people disliked it. And somehow Rogue managed to get some love.. I don't understand how people think..
I'm not saying that all SW fans are stupid, just saying that there's little to not chance for the new series to succeed because everyone has It's own expectations.. Like, people are disappointed about Snoke and Rey' s parents just because they speculates too much.. They had way too many expectations..
I went to see it without any expectations and loved the huge "Who gives a fuck about your theories?". Even if Snoke was someone and Rey parents Skywalkers people would have complained.. That's how it is.
The only problem is that there is actual flaws in the movie, not discussed a lot here.. Go check r/star wars, it's way smarter than here.
Glad to see you liked it! Wasn't a huge fan myself but hey. I disagree with you over the timescale point; for me it felt like the Rey/Luke plot took far longer than the main Resistance one, yet they met up in the end. Didn't sit right for me.
Would it be possible to file a false advertising complaint? Disney deliberately teased a bunch of mysteries with no intent of actually answering any of them.
I liked it too. This movie just straight up didn't give a fuck and I think that's a good thing. I feel like everyone was shitting on TFA because it was too much of the same thing, and on TLJ because it's too different. Some people just can't be pleased.
The high-points of the movie are really good, but I don't think they're enough because they're dragged down by really mediocre and useless subplots and characters that make the bulk of the movie. Finn / Rose / Phasma/ Laura Dern , Del Toro, nothing but mediocrity I did not care about at all. I was suprised how much I don't care whether Finn lives or dies, because all he did this movie was got 90% of the rebels killed and did some property damage to rich people
The way it all ties up together is also a mess, it's more like some overwritten modern blockbuster like Transformers sequel instead of the simple classic Star Wars stories.
It's not as original as critics say it is, TFA was almost a copy of A New Hope, this takes the structures of both ESB and ROTJ, but a convoluted nonsensical spaghetti version of those movies.The Jedi being arrogant twits who brought their own demise was in the prequel trilogy, I mean whatever you think of this it's all George. Also the casino weapon profiteers was like extremely obvious parallel or metaphor about the real world, George also did that in the prequels and the senate democracy.
It got really tiring how they make asspul after aspull on how they survive, I mean they start of in a hopeless situation then there are millions of ass-pulls one of the worst one beings that a ship that goes trough hyperspace can take out an entire fleet, it left me puzzled for 10 minutes about why they didn't do that when they had more ships, and smaller fighters can also do this, or why didn't they do this in any of the last six movies if it's so easy to disable and wreck a fleet
Worst one out of the three recent releases. World building felt poor, no memorable new planets/ races. Needed better duels and less pointless subplots/ animals. Also what the fuck was the point in Snoke?
I went into The Last Jedi incredibly hyped. Rian Johnson directing and writing, with the studio having so much faith in him that he gets his own trilogy. Reviews claiming it as the best Star Wars movie of all time, or close to, with critical acclaim? I'm fucking ready. And it lived up to my expectations.
This movie has a lot of issues, but the good parts are so good that for me they make up for any problems I have. They are easy to look past because of what the movie accomplishes overall, but anyway here is a breakdown of the good and bad for me:
Story
To be honest, pretty weak. One thing I noticed is how in every single Star Wars movie before this, the crawl sets us up for something that happens in the first act. Whereas this time, the crawl sets up the whole movie. The whole movie is "the resistance tries making a daring escape..." and this is such a small scale story for Star Wars. It's like an episode of a TV show, everything from "we need a codebreaker" to the Canto Blight stuff and back again. I'm happy it wasn't a Death Star but the fact that an opening battle was essentially the whole movie was weird for me. I can definitely see some fan edits cutting down this part of the movie. But the more I think of it the way the three stories combine in the finale is wonderful (even though i'm confused on the timelines? Like was Rey's stuff happening at a completely different time to the Resistance stuff and they just put them overlapping for the sake of balance?) and makes up for the slight jarring switches during the first two acts.
Thankfully Rey's storyline is so much more engaging. I loved literally every single scene and I could have done with even more. Hopefully there's some great deleted scenes on the Blu-Ray for the movie. That scene where Rey and Kylo work together is probably my favourite scene in all of Star Wars. It was such a fucking hype moment.
Characters
Without a doubt the most character focused movie in the franchise. This is why i'm not entirely bothered about the story being weak, because the characters are the true star of the show here. Kylo Ren as far as i'm concerned is the best villain in Star Wars. Better than my boy Grievous, Palpatine, and even Darth Vader himself. He's complex, he's torn, he's wonderfully acted and this movie built on a solid foundation in The Force Awakens, making him quite morally ambiguous and unsure of whether to love him or hate him. The connection with Rey was constantly engaging and their interactions were so wonderfully done. I began actually wanting a romance between them, which is a credit to Johnson's work here. Rey's story fizzling out to "your parents are nobody" feels like a mislead but also a very acceptable thing to happen in a movie where fan theories are thrown out the window for unconventional pay offs. Daisy Ridley is much better here and the stage is now set for her and Kylo on opposite ends of the finale.
Unfortunately the Resistance stuff just felt like a tacked on solo TV special. I already like Finn, Rose was alright but her presence did feel a bit like Rian just loved the actress so put her in the movie a lot and Poe was sort of gaining experience and building into a leader but once again this whole part is so separate from the main action that it feels jarring.
The First Order stuff was a bit strange for me. I didn't expect Hux to become such of a joke after the last movie, it felt a little too Marvel here especially that opening. I'm curious as to what's actually happened with Snoke but something tells me this is far from the end of his story and fans annoyed that we don't know anything about him are just being reactionary. For all we know we'll find out in the finale and at least some explanations will be given. There has to be otherwise the set up from the first two movies would just be jarring.
Carrie Fisher shined as Leia and as the movie was playing out I became more and more confident that the next movie would end with her funeral after a time skip. I don't see how else they can do it tastefully. Mark Hamill was fantastic here and I loved what happened with his character. I doubt that this will be the last time we see Luke Skywalker.
Tone
A bit conflicted here. For me there were far too many easy ha ha jokes that are straight from a Marvel movie. I think with how dark the movie was going in some places they didn't want that to alienate the general audience and so threw them in to keep them happy. But I am glad that overall a serious moment wasn't ruined by a joke. The only time I felt it was really off putting was when Kylo was topless and Rey mentioned about him covering up. It took me out the scene and was just an unnecessary S E X U A L T E N S I O N plug when the rest of the dialogue, directing and cinematography was doing the job building their connection.
But overall i'm not too bothered as they made sure the emotional moments stayed emotional. Ruining them with cheap jokes like the Marvel movies tend to do massively affects the movies for me and thankfully Star Wars didn't do that.
Overall
A very flawed but ambitious movie where the things it gets right far outweigh any negatives I have with the movie. It's the Star Wars movie I've been wanting, something that defies expectations for characters and storylines and forges its own path for the next movie to build off of. Just like Empire Strikes back it feels inconsequential but has major character implications for the finale. Just like Empire Strikes Back it receives criticism on release (although this time there's critical acclaim) but will it become a classic in the way Empire Strikes Back is? Who knows, but for now that's all I care about is seeing how the story concludes in Episode 9 and what Rian Johnson has in mind for his new trilogy where he is able to go even more out there with Star Wars.
Nachti ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:25:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A very flawed but ambitious movie where the things it gets right far outweight any negatives I have with the movie.
This about sums up my feelings as well. I'm sad to see the people here be so negative about it - do you really want another JJ Abrams by-the-numbers TFA-type movie where nothing surprises you?
The film is gorgeous for starters, props to Johnson and director of photography for creating such a gorgeous movie
The film also took risks that I feel were justified. Kylo's progression was perfect, striking down Snoke in the aim of building a new order around himself. I also actually liked there were no revelations with Rey and Snoke. Why do they have to be linked to someone else, they should stand on their own.
The action was also amazing, some of the best stuff in the whole saga and incredibly entertaining. Was not expecting Fury Road in space essentially. And the film was an incredibly emotional ride, commenting on legacy and what we leave behind. It's what Star Wars is all about.
I will say the Finn/Rose stuff was the weakest part of the film. I still very much enjoyed it but it didn't really lead to anything (expect maybe with the balance of the force existing in nature).
I think the biggest point dividing people is the use of the force, it is a very different portrayal but I'm good with it. I think we see for the first time the full potential that has been hinted at in the past. Leia clearly has power and seeing her harnessing it is a dream. But clearly she is not in full control, more is at play. Luke as powerful as he is cannot tap on fully to the extreme power, I assume the trauma of projecting himself and the blow from Kylo combined to kill him. I didn't see it as a writing crutch, Luke states it's not just for the Jedi to possess and this maybe the start of this evolution.
The movie just ticked nearly all the boxes for me but I can see why people were disappointed. This film was a very bold step and they just went for it. Maybe it will not be as good on a rewatch, we shall see.
The problem with snoke is hes nobody. The guy has no back story and isnt even an imposing threat. I understand leia has the force but seeing her turn into superman in space was ridiculous. Of course i respect your opinion i like films that arent popular too
Was Snoke ever planned to be anything else?
It's the fans with the the theories and discussion that built him up to more than the movies ever showed him to be.
SPOILERS--I can't believe how many bad reviews for the film are on IMDB, mostly having to do with Finn/Rose getting nothing done but getting most of the rebels killed, Snoke dying way too early, Princess Leia Mary Poppins in space, and some said there was too much dumb humor in the film, making it feel almost like Spaceballs at times
I was pissed there was no proper lightsaber fight, whats that about
joed2605 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:19:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Overall the movie was probably the weirdest star wars I've seen because it has some of the most epic moments in the franchise but is remained lighthearted and fun at points being easily the funniest. While the tone wasn't as consistent as TFA it was way more ambitious and unique which is all we wanted from it really.
One of my biggest questions is where is Lukeโs green lightsaber? We know he had it a few years prior to the movie, based off the flash back, but where did it go? Do you think we will ever get an answer or does it not really matter?
_Ishmael ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:36:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I want to know why he was using Rey's lightsaber in the fight with Kylo Ren despite the fact we saw it get destroyed in the previous scene.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:19:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Pavleena ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:33:47 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This. Luke seemed to be able to project himself however he wanted. With less wrinkles and better hair:)
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:13:06 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone else DEFINITELY see Gareth Edwardsโs? definitely saw him!
I really loved it. I enjoyed the new characters and the time spent working on Kylo and Rey's relationship. Reminded me very much of a YA series called The Grisha Trilogy where the 'Darkling' visits the protagonist (who's power is light) in visions and they try to help/manipulate each other.
I was so hyped when they fought Snoke's henchmen together and would genuinely have liked them to team up properly but I guess that would've left the series without a proper villain after Snoke went.
I don't think we'll get a "ren-demption" anymore... I dont know. But he did seem to still be on the precipice with the final vision with Rey at the end.
Snoke said that bridge was due to him. It lasted even after his death?
Is Rey shutting the door on him meant to be indicative of that being the last chance she'll give him?
I thought that fight at the end and Luke's death was amazing but I'm still incredibly raw about it. Carrie has died and now we won't have Mark either.
Totally agree re: Grisha - I hope they keep that up in the next one, and that the door shutting wasn't symbolic of it ceasing
BearWrap ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:49:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just amazing the amount of hate and disappointment in this thread.
Siglyr ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:40:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I really don't understand. If you like the movie you're downvotes to hell.
BearWrap ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:46:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I know right, I saw it tonight and really liked it for the most part. It certainly doesn't play it safe. I'm guessing a lot of people got too attached to the fan theories that the actual answers feel like a slap in the face.
Siglyr ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:59:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There are a lot of comments about "Paid critics". It's just so ridiculous.
Just seen it today. I thought it was excellent buuuuut, there was a few things that rubbed me the wrong way. The lightsaber duels were... underwhelming and what is up with Snoke? He just got killed off, like that?
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:59:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A lot of people hitting the nail on the head regarding the issues with the characters and plot but my god was Snoke's CGI awful. Jesus imagine looking at that and letting that make the final cut. Should of just put him behind a opaque screen. The only scene worse was Leia flying in space lol
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:20:31 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
TFA never hinted she was anybody to be fair. I was more bothered that they had to waste screen time on her family after it was resolved in TFA (Maz telling Rey to forget her old family and accept the new one)
Snoke though....WHAT THE FUCK WERE THEY THINKING!!!!
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:25:14 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They kinda did by making her such a gifted user of the Force, we all assumed she had some Jedi training or some reason she was left. Since she's nobody, she's just a Mary Sue
Also I agree with you on Snoke lol
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:38:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They kinda did by making her such a gifted user of the Force
Literally, the only people we have met that the family matters has been the Skywalkers
And guess what, Rey being nobody parallels Anakin quite nicely.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:37:58 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I'm not mad she has the Force. Just that she learned advanced tricks so quickly
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:29:36 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think it will take one more bomb with episode 9 to get people to fully come around. But I think it'd be really cool if the first thing lucas did was to promise to keep the gritty cinematography of the OT.
The Good.
That first scene with the bomber run was phenomenal and took it right back to the ww2 movie feel.
The scene with Luke vs the entire First Order ground forces also superb- extremely Kurosowa or Spaghetti Western.
Training scenes with conflicted luke, battles, puppet yoda! personal interactions and character growth all perfectly handled. And a lot of that missing world structure from Force Awakens was fixed and it now feels like a much better realised world.
The bad.
At 2 and a half hours this film was half an hour too long and everyone has spotted the same 'problem' half hour. WTF with planet Casino Royale. With it's awful CGI and ropey look, it was completely bizarre to run off to a planet mission whilst being chased by Empire. it just feels forced (sorry).
Then there's the whole floating space wizzard Leia. Enough said.
The Ugly.
Too many cringey jokes and the very last scene had more cheese than a fondue factory explosion. But on the whole it was pretty damn good and the good far outweighed the bad. Here's hoping for a two hour fan edit.
There is a lot to digest from this movie, but holy hell, I thought that was amazing. Not everything works. But there are scenes, shots, and lines from this movie that rank up there with the best of the franchise.
I need to see it again. Right now it ranks up there with Empire and ANH for me. Can't say I understand some of the hate for this movie--there's a lot in there that challenges the themes of the saga but that's what was needed.
This is the eighth entry in a franchise that feels dramatically different yet still part of the universe we know and love. Johnson gives the central character and incredibly epic send-off and sets the board up for the end game in IX.
I don't know where we go from here and that's the first time in years I've felt that way about a Star Wars film.
How does whatโs left of the Resistance rally against the First Order?
Does Kylo/Ben fulfill an Emperor or Vader role? Can he be turned?
Does the Resistance turn to Poe? This movie felt like it was lesson after lesson for him.
How does Rey bring balance to the Forceโie, does she bring back the Jedi, does she go after Kylo, etc.
Remaining questions I have:
Are Reyโs parents really just scavengers?
Who leads the Resistance (since Leia is gone)?
Can Finn fully embrace his role in the Resistance? Or is he just tagging along like he felt like he was in TFA and the first half of TLJ?
pissflask ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:08:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
i don't get how anyone can be the slightest bit invested in the state of the resistance/first order. literally a week ago the republic was the established galactic power and the first order was were fringe terrorists, then they fired a big gun (which was somehow 10x bigger than the empire's superweapon at its peak) and nobody seemed super bothered, but apparently that one blast somehow destroyed the entire republic. no on screen explanation as to why or how.
now "the first order reigns" and the entire republic can fit inside a VW van.
it's utter toss worldbuilding. completely takes away any authenticity from the universe and immediately stamps it with the sodden mark of fan fiction. any state of affairs can be flipped at disney's whim without the slightest plausible explanation. that's not a story, it's an ad-libbed rant.
the answer to all your questions is the same: whatever the lucasfilm story group pull out of their asses over coffee without a single thought for narrative authenticity.
maybe you're just thinking about it on the right level: i.e not at all.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 12:21:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I think you're reading it backwards, Abrams is the worst director for this. I don't want Rebels vs Empire forever because he wanted to do the same shit. That's not fan service, that's lacking creativity and imagination.
goofan ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:24:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Went in completely blind and did not expect the trilogy to take this direction at all. The scope was very tight and while I don't necessarily have a problem with this I really thought TFA set up a more grand sequel.
Rey/Luke/Kylo was awesome and easily the best part of the movie, I like how they didn't just follow the tropes for Luke.
Disappointed with how Snoke was handled. We still know nothing more about the rise of the first order or Snoke's backstory and that was what I was most interested in finding out. I hope there is more on this in episode 9.
Leia's floating scene was controversial and I didn't like it but I can look past it. I wish they would have just ended her then and there but I understand it may have been too hard to have the rest of the movie fit after they'd already shot it.
As plenty of others have noted, the fact that the whole Poe/Finn plan only occured because Holdo didn't reveal a critical piece of information really bothered me. Perhaps if they focused more on the consequences of Poe and Finn acting impulsively and have them show some remorse it could have actually been a lesson on being how being hero isn't always the way, driving home some of Holdo's earlier dialogue. But instead it just looks like a plothole and lazy writing.
As for that Finn subplot, I really didn't like Rose and the romantic plot was completely unneccesary. Did I also catch a jealous glance from Rey near the end when she saw them too? Not sure if i misinterpreted that. The casino place was really cool and the action there was fun but just so pointless and emotionless it was hard to enjoy on anything more than a superficial level.
In regards to the humour; some of it didn't land for me, such as BB8's smoking gun (as opposed to the thumbs up in TFA which I really loved). The ironing board shot was the most hilarious part for me and it was very cheeky and self aware without being too ridiculous. However the jokes were just too widespread and it felt like they had a rule that every scene had to have at least one joke. It neutered the tone of what should have been the most serious and emotionally impacting scenes. I simply didn't feel as much as I expect to feel in a Star Wars movie.
While most of this is criticism there was plenty to like. Overall I enjoyed the movie and I don't understand how some people are calling it terrible but I also can't honestly say it is a better Star Wars movie than TFA in every way. It took risks and Rian deserves credit for taking the series to new places (excited for his trilogy after this for sure) but unfortunately a lot of it just didn't pay off. Force Awakens at least respected the tone a bit more and had some tight writing even if it was very safe.
I will definitely be watching this again and I'm still looking forward to episode 9 but this wasn't the masterpiece I was expecting.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:48:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:47:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There was no giant scope.
The characters were definitely weird at times.
The scene execution was jarring throughout.
With all that said... Seeing Rey and Ben back to back was such a giggly moment. That explosion for Snokes ship, and the dead silence it cut to.. Then later in the movie watching Luke and Ben have a standoff..
The movie took a lot of risks. A lot right. A lot wrong. But when they hit a beat.. It really struck home.
Exiting TFA I felt great about it, but later saw it for a new hope ripoff that it was.
This one left me cold from the get-go. Like, how is Kylo doing anything new from old rule-of-two sith ? Right down to (trying to) recruit the person to help him overthrow his master. Rey had 3 short lessons and is now the last Jedi with little to no knowledge of the old ways so she won't repeat those mistakes. Leia should have died within seconds of being in frickin space. Finn was incompetent and Snoke was a joke. I dunno guys, might I be so mistaken ? Really want to like it more and not just for the pretty show.
stabbybit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:08:05 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
In retrospect, it appears I underestimated Star Wars fans. After the way I came out of TFA completely nonplussed but Star Wars fans loved it, I figured it would be the same way. I left the theater thinking "Well, this is a franchise with no new ideas left" and "Wow, the humor in this falls flat over and over" but "Still, Star Wars fans won't care." I'm now genuinely curious to see what happens because Star Wars fans seem genuinely mad.
I really liked this movie. I've been looking at other reviews on Reddit and people seem to be going out of their way to fault it and blowing little things out of proportion. I went into a midnight screening with an enthusiastic audience and loved the movie. Everyone laughed and cheered at the right times.
The old school aliens and the original muppet Yoda were great and made it feel like a classic Star Wars movie rather than a CGI fest. The plot was along the lines of a Fury Road movie in terms of it mostly being a chase movie but the side quests were there to develop the main characters and they spent a lot of time exploring the flaws and growth of those characters.
The visuals were stunning, some scenes were breathtaking, especially the battle scenes. This is a movie I could watch a few times just to enjoy those visuals.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:18:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
People laughed and cheered
Y'mean there's people who go to watch a movie for the joy of the experience instead of waiting to see how much it failed to fill the hollow void in their souls? This fucking thread, man...
Seztael ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 11:19:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I liked it. It diverged from the formula, while still being very much Star Wars. Having one large connected event as the backbone of the story was interesting and something we haven't seen before.
It moved a lot things forward and showed that we are done dwelling on the past.
I see a lot of complaints about the main plot being simple and even if that is true, it still highlights what is important in these movies.
It was never about blowing up the deathstar. It is about the characters. We get to focus on each arc. We see Rey and Kylo become what they are meant to be and get one of the best fights in the series. We see Luke and Leia finish of their story (Only issue for me was not ending Leia's arc in this movie. I hope they find a good way for her to leave in the next.)
It added a lot of new aspects to the force, while not doing anything we haven't seen in the extended universe. I liked that Rey's parents aren't important. Like Anakin she is strong in the force and will shake things up, she dosn't need to be of a known bloodline.
......they were already on a planet unknown to everyone in the world other than Rey with an old man Luke, so if anything they're now more accessible than ever
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 17:30:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
or they could've said "hey guys, found some books you might like" there's no reason to destroy them
tlvrtm ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:02:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean Yoda doesn't say that he burned them because she knew it. He burned them because the texts don't matter if the lessons are lived -- and because Luke needed a lesson about the texts.
I didn't think the scene was particularly well done, though.
How this film currently has 93% on Rotten Tomatoes I have no idea. Disney paying for reviews? People too scared to criticise for fear of being black listed in future?
Because believe it or not reddit is designed to be an echo chamber.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:22:19 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Black listed
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:41:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I really loved the film, but I thought that it was too long and the subplot with Finn and Rose was pointless. Honestly, I was hoping Finn would've sacrificed himself.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:25:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
i liked the movie, except for the Leia flying through space scene, that was just dumb.
This movie did take risks. Some paid off and others didnโt. I have to say i thought there was too much humour and i found the Leia floating in space scene out of place and weird. I need to watch it again to rank it properly but so as of now its an 8.5/10 for me.
pedja13 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:47:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
For me this was the second best if not the best movie of the franchise.It was different and I loved it.It would have been so easy to do more of the same with Snoke being the big bad but this movie took a more bold approach.I liked that the way Luke went out wasnt the same as the way Obi Wan died and that whole scene was amazing.
The cinematography was awesome starting from the Dreadnought attack to the final confrontation between Kylo and Luke and the Rebel ship smashing into Snoke's ship was stunning visually while the silence added to the moment.
A lot of people are having issues with the way Snoke and Luke went out but having Snoke not be the main villain was a good call imo and went with the "Kill the past" theme of the movie by doing things differently than the Original Trilogy.
The Rebel plot wasnt amazing and some scenes could certainly be better and possibly shorter since the movie already has a very long runtime.
Luke facing the AT-AT walkers and Kylo Ren was the highlight of the movie for me and it served to show how actually powerful Luke was and him not actually being there added even more to his legend.
The Leia scene was weird visually and I felt that the movie didnt know what to do with her but this leaves them the option to give both Leia and Carrie Fisher a proper send off in the next movie which is also fine imo.
I am very excited to see where the franchise goes from here because now I dont know what to expect from the next Star Wars movie which is both scary and exciting.They could have played it safe and did another movie that borrows from the original trilogy but instead they played with the expectations of the fan base by doing something fresh and they did it almost perfectly.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:51:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It looked good but there was absolutely no substance and the writing was terrible. The bad plot had to be subsidised with shit, cringey and over used jokes.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:49:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thoughts:
Loved the "old vs new" themes in this film. Everything the First Order had was new. The tracking system that kept on the Resistance's ass through warp speed, the door busting starship turbine, Kylo usurping the position of Supreme Leader from old-ass Snoke along with his overall "let the past die" fetish, they all tie in to that.
In contrast, the Resistance ends up using outdated technology, still has Princess Leia as a leader, etc. That being said, they're showing the good side of change and progress; using the lessons of the past to make a better future, instead of just wiping the past clean like the First Order does. Rey building a new jedi order from the old texts, Poe learning how to be a better leader from Leia and the purple haired lady, etc.
Fucking Yoda. My favourite scene in the film. That feat where he pulls lightning from the sky just opens up a whole host of questions regarding what Force Ghosts can do. He's still the best teacher in the saga IMO, and the fact they used the Dagobah version of him instead of the prideful, hubris blinded Prequel Trilogy version just hit all the right spots.
I like Rose. As far as new characters go, I can understand a lot of the criticisms and issues, I don't really care about them. I also really like Finn's arc in this. Taking the epithet "rebel scum" as an emotional climax in his journey really sealed it for me.
The Akira Kurosawa-esque "one slash, one kill" motif in this film was great. Kylo's lightsaber ignition trick ( which he used TWICE ) and Admiral Holdo Purple Hair's hyperspace slash were some of the best parts of this film, and some of the best moments in the entire franchise.
Snoke and Phasma, the two anti-climactic boss deaths of this movie, really only served as the representation of everything Kylo and Finn hated, respectively. Kylo hated and feared being controlled by an old, decrepit relic of the past, Finn abhorred being the faceless killing machine, hence his victory in finally exposing Gwendolyn Christie's eye.
bedbugsex ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 16:07:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe you're a critic.
Siglyr ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:32:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I did too... I don't understand the hate. Maybe only the people that don't like it come and comment idk?
CJ_Jones ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:43:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Scroll to the bottom, you'll find the ones that did...
I really enjoyed it too but since we're on reddit and the demographic here is one for analysising of the logic, the CGI, the action, and techy stuff it's going to be a losing fight if what we bring is just feelings of enjoyment.
For a while it's going to be 50/50 if people liked it or not just like with Rogue One.
CJ_Jones ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:54:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That was honestly my favourite part of the movie. That's just how Yoda looked and moved in his old age.
Choekaas ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 12:08:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Me too. I've been so used to seeing the extremely fluid CGI yoda, through a lot of marketing and the prequels, that seeing this goofy puppet-like Yoda brought a big smile. Especially when he used his cane to bang on Luke's head.
NDuckL ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 11:45:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What about it was shitty ? It looked just like the puppet in ESB ROTJ. Better looking than the TPM puppet.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 12:06:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's weird, I thought he looked fake as fuck when he initially appeared, but fine as the scene went on. I was mostly confused by Jedi ghosts being able to conjure lightning out of nowhere.
Finally someone else who thought so! Speaking to all my friends after film and they thought he looked fine.... whereas to me it was the fakest he's ever looked. I was beginning to think I was losing my mind.
noobule ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 12:24:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
yeah like I get that you want to be faithful to the originals and there's charm to puppetry and all that, but this movie was a good example that the time has passed and that there's no reason to use puppetry when we have CGI (unless you're deliberately going for that puppet effect, but even then!)
This movie is also a great example of how it doesn't matter what medium you use if you don't have any character. Yoda in this was way more interesting than his better looking Prequel version
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:06:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought it worked, there are times where puppet Yoda is better and times where CG is better. Having him as a puppet was the right choice here imo.
chuiboy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:28:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's all for the sake of nostalgia. The same goes for the introduction. "In a galaxy far, far away ...." There are so many better ways to open a movie. Only Star Wars can get away with it because of the nostalgia people get from it.
He looked to me like they kinda made him look a bit like George Lucas.
meeyans ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:07:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
my god. the ammount of hate for this is insane. if you wanted something different and something bold for a star wars movie then HERE IT IS. RIGHT HERE. it showed that star wars is more than simple villains such as snoke and that star wars should be more about the personal relationships such as kylo ren and rey. but no, people just want the same fucking thing. again and again. the structure was different, the character development was different, it was so fresh but people are going to dislike it for that and that to me is the saddest thing about the film.
the structure was different, the character development was different
Trouble is, different does not automatically equal good.
meeyans ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 14:16:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
in this case, it did for me. i want originality in my star wars. would it be better for it to have the same structure and story of the originals or to go for something new? the exact complaints about the force awakens was that it played it too safe, it just copied a new hope. the last jedi took those complaints and crafted a film that defied expectations yet it is being lambasted for the decisions it made. itโs sad but it happens.
would it be better for it to have the same structure and story of the originals or to go for something new?
False dichotomy. It would be BEST to do something new and good. Here they did something different and dull (and very poorly written).
Llaine ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 22:16:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Mfw this stupidity is getting upvoted.
Y'all usually love RT and it's now disagreeing with you strongly. If I was gonna pick a side, it'd be the one with people whose job it is to evaluate writing.
I havenโt mentioned RT or other reviewers at all. So come back when you have a relevant opinion and then weโll talk.
Llaine ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:43:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Reviewers would almost certainly flag writing issues in reviews. They haven't. So far, it's only butthurt fanboys in small internet communities (Reddit) claiming that it's badly written.
Ha good one. This is a parody of a defensive Star Wars fan throwing meaningless shade on people who donโt like his precious movie, right? Well done. So accurate.
Llaine ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:31:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Mate, you're the one trying to say the writing is bad. Lmao.
So, so much. Leiaโs space revival. The pointless Casino side quest that could have been avoided if Dernโs character just told Poe whatโs up. So many instances of โWe just need to buy him timeโ or โHeโs trying to buy time!โ (added to which, wouldnโt Luke be better off telling the rebels that was the plan so that they actually had more time, rather than just hoping theyโd figure it all out). The last minute realization that the rebel ship could be used as a kamikaze missile. The fact that said kamikaze ship miraculously kills the majority of stormtroopers but Finn and Rose are spared. Phantasmaโs general pointlessness. Snokeโs general pointlessness. The hokey final scene. And on and on and on.
Ratachu ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:46:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Dude you are getting donwvoted but you are true. Real movie fans love this movie. Look at the letterboxd.com reactions. Letterboxd is a cinophile social network.
meeyans ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:52:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
thanks man, appreciate it. i suspect r/truefilm will love it while r/movies wonโt.
Ratachu ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:15:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think if you like more the original trilogy or Force Awakens you will like this. If you like Rogue One or the prequels more, you will hate this.
Damn I was going to say I thought it was good and mindfucked me a bit even but I guess I'll just save myself the downvotes. I've seen people complain about the fucking crystal foxes lmao. Apparently it's worse than PM.
If some of y'all rewatched the OT, with your memories erased you'd probably rate them similarly.
Halo4356 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:32:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Man, I really liked this movie. I don't know why so many people disliked them. I loved the humor, and I loved the subversiveness of every single part of the plot.
The cinematography was fucking mint. The lightsaber scenes were fantastic and that scene with the hyperspeed kamikaze made me audibly gasp.
My audience was a huge fan of the film, so I don't know what's going on in this comments section.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:37:09 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Halo4356 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:49:45 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's a Shame, because while I see some of the points some people are making and they are valid, they are usually not enough to being the movie down. Some of them are just outright misunderstandings of the movie in the first place.
Ah well. I'm looking forward to seeing it again.
TNWhaa ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:35:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't like Leia's arc, they should've just written Laura Dern's character into the spot instead and just killed the character off during that first attack out of light speed, could've been a bit of a catalyst for Ben's conflict and discussions with Rey.
Casio sucked, if that was anyone but Del Toro and Boyega it would've hated the whole plot but it improved as soon as they got to Snoke's ship.
Killing Phasma is okay i guess after letting it simmer since she did nothing in both movies even though she shouldv'e.
Everything else i though was great however it is the negatives that are lingering right now and i think that'll pass on a second viewing.
Johnson did a great job and gave the movie some much needed depth since TFA was by the numbers which wasn't a bad thing, just a nice change. Looking forward to what he does with his own trilogy, however there's gonna need to be a time jump in between TLJ and Episode 9.
Were they trying to set up a potential romance with Poe and Rey at the end there?
The Rose Finn would be romance was absolutely horrible. When it came to Poe, I thought he may have some romantic connection with that blonde rebel who kept helping him on the ship. Also I feel like Rey and Kylo have GREAT chemistry that seems natural so to try set up something with Poe and Rey would feel forced to me..
I am confused by romantic foreshadowing across the board - someone said Rose was just introduced to add a third person to a Finn-Rey-OTHER triangle, but I never saw Rey and Finn as a potential romance from TFA...
I read that too. ANY love triangle would be horrible and definitely doesn't belong in a star wars film. it's okay for Rey and Finn to JUST be best friends..
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:35:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
they're trying to copy the luke leia han love triangle with no idea how
I dont understand why she kissed him. She met him like 5 hours prior too this. It wasnt even built up it was just shoe horned in there. Enough with the romance
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:10:49 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Does the "Death Star tech" cannon count as another Death Star?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:30:06 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Star Wars has always been funny. This movie was just funnier than the others.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:41:02 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought the humour was bad mostly but saying Star Wars isn't funny is dumb. The OT has some really great funny moments, with Yoda's introduction being a highlight, and one of the best bits of the prequels was the Death Sticks scene
wigum211 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:52:25 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's definitely room for comedy in Star Wars. I'm astonished at how poorly it was written here though. A "your mum joke" in the first 5 mins... Really...?
SSF2_OW ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:02:56 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. Star Wars was serious, and honest, the world was real to the characters. But there was still time for humor. But a lot of this humor was for the audience, to the characters it was just dialogue, or events that occurred. Now the humor is completely different, it's jokes and over the top slap stick, it's your mum level humor targeted to children
cartofu ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:31:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The moment they focused on Leia's hand while she was in space I just knew the movie will be a mess.
Looking back I think the plot of the movie is still fine and they can easily continue to make a great 9th Episode. But the story is all over the place, great, good, bad and even delete scene in places.
I am disappointed. It's not a train wreck, but it's definitely a train derailment.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:48:25 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I hope JJ salvages this trilogy. I can't imagine how stressful it was putting SW back on track the first time and now he'll have to do it again.
SSF2_OW ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:00:52 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't even think the plot was salvageable. It's a two hour film about a space shit slowly running away from another space ship. That's the plot to a one hour episode of star treck, not a Star Wars feature film.
omzzy ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 11:41:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think its the best star wars movie ever made
[deleted] ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 11:43:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How? I thought it was a mess
omzzy ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 11:47:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Had the most character development of any star wars movie with every major character going through a significant arc and coming out changed forever. Had twists and turns i didnt see coming. Every scene with rey and kylo was brilliant. Action was amazing and innovative for star wars. Luke was even better than i imagined. Yoda.
It gave me everything i wanted as a super fan whilst still being original
Only negatives was casino section but once they get arrested its awesome from there and the other bad part was leias "skywalking"
[deleted] ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 12:00:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I disagree at least partially with most of these points.
Finn's arc came to a flat conclusion, I thought him trying to run again was an interesting idea but they abandoned that theme for an uninspired romance, and don't even think Rose had an arc. The Kylo and Rey stuff was all good but it didn't properly conclude.
There were so many unexpected twists that it got ridiculous. Particularly Kylo's turn wasn't satisfying because it was immediately forgotten and had no impact on the rest of the film.
The only exceptional action scene was Kylo and Rey vs the guards, the ground and space battles didn't do anything for me.
Mark Hamil was awesome but it assassinated Luke Skywalker as a character. This is the guy who saw good in Darth Vader right to the very end and now he gets scared of a teenager and was momentarily prepared to execute him. Then he's perfectly okay with hiding on a hidden planet while his friends and everything he fought for dies.
I loved when Yoda appeared but somehow he looked better 37 years ago.
It was a lapse from look that lasted a moment. It makes sense. If he thinks he has another Vader infront of him that will kill many people there would be a thought to end it right now and save those people.
omzzy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:59:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
His theme was finding courage and being willing to sacrifice
omzzy ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:00:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The rest we just see differently i guess
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 12:16:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Glad there are some people who enjoyed it as much as me, thought it was quality. Naturally there are a couple questionable elements but overall I fucking loved it. Can't see how people are complaining about how Luke was handled, thought he was one of the best parts of the movie, super well acted and really solid story arc.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:14:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Blind fanboyism
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:42:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
scrubbed
omzzy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:43:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Eh i dont mind they can like what they like for me its the best
The only scene I didn't really enjoy was when Leia force pulls herself back to the ship. Other than that I loved the movie. I didn't even dislike the Rose and Finn subplot that much (apart from the apparent romance they seem to be shoehorning in), it was interesting and I feel like it ended when it had to.
The one thing I am a bit peeved about is the give the Vice Admiral Holdu? a heroes demise while Admiral Ackbar is just mentioned in passing. How you gonna do that to my mans? Or it would have been perfect for Leia to take that shit down.
So many beautiful shots throughout the movie. The silent destruction of Snoke's ship, Luke and Ren's 'fight'
Also didn't mind the humour as much as other redditors are. Some jokes were hit and miss but most of them were pretty funny. Luke wiping his shoulder after he gets bombarded by the AT-ATs or his first lesson with Rey when he just whacks her with the grass was funny shit. Also didn't mind the Porgs. That weird scene with Chewie tryna eat one was funny stuff.
Loved it more than Force Awakens and will probably see it a couple more times in the future.
When Luke said to Leia "He'll always be with us." about Han, I couldn't help but imagine that he was speaking about Carrie.
What I really been thinking is that maybe Luke didn't die, because i swear that I saw a ship on the horizon while Luke was laying back. And I don't think they choose to do that with no reason, also I don't know why he just disappear and why the dices from the Millennial falcon disappear as well. And he blocked his force from them all along while he was hiding so he might as well be hiding again, he might be in a place feeling like he has do what they needed him to do, re-ignite the spark of the rebellion, and that they don't need anything more from him, that he might got a chance to disappear and be in peace.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:08:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There was definitely a dot in the sun but then in the next shot it was gone. In Ep4 when Vader strikes down Obi-Wan he vanishes (and his clothing falls to the ground), same as when luke disappears and his clothing blows away
I realize it too, that it vanished. But you know he might used the force to fake his death, because Joda vanished like that too right? But then why those dices disappear. And good think I wasnt the only one who notice it (The flying dot/ship).
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:38:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The dice disappeared because they weren't there to begin with. Luke was just a projection on that planet same with the dice that he gave to Leia. So when he died the dice disappeared.
Well the thing is that I kind of remember somebody else took em out of the falcon when they arrive to the planet. But I could be wrong. When I saw it I was falling asleep.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:05:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
At one point Luke goes inside the falcon and picks up the dice (he also reunites with R2D2).
But that actually happen right with fiscal Luke not the astral one. Right? Im sorry but I was really sleepy eventho I just loved the movie, I need to see it again.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:37:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yup that happens on the island
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:43:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They're "dead" but Yoda, Obi-wan, and Luke all became one with the force. Their spirit, identify, and consciousness exist with the living force, so they're not entirely "dead", i'm sure Luke will appear in 9.
I hope he does. Hes performance here was at least in my opinion the better we got from Luke.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:57:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Having just seen the movie I felt that it was...weird. It's like having an awesome, sexy movie stuck inside another bloated fat movie.
The Good:
All the scenes of Rey and Luke on the island.
The desperate retreat of the resistance.
Rey and Kylo's conflict.
The last hour or so of the movie was generally pretty excellent.
The Bad:
Rose's character was pointless and annoying.
The entire canto bight sequence in general was awful and detracted from the rest of the film. I kinda wished they'd have cut out the whole thing and rose. Just have Holdo tell the others her plan and save the canto bight budget for a bigger more epic battle on crait or something.
Snoke was also horribly wasted (for reasons many here have already picked up on) and in a way Kylo becoming head of the first order was also a waste of his character. IMO they should have kept Snoke around and have Kylo rebel but remain some sort of omnicidal grey jedi might have been a more interesting direction to take him. I thought there was value in Luke's idea of balance being both a mix of light and dark and felt that they should have explored that a little more.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:53:49 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm very surprised this is getting as much hate as it is
This movie is essentially about how heroes cannot always save the day
Poe, in his defiance of Leias orders may have destroyed the dreadnought but at the expense of most of their fleet and all of their bombers meaning they were completely ill equipped to defend themselves after they jumped. He continued this behaviour and his refusal to trust in the leadership cost the lives of many, many resistance fighters
Finn felt useless, and selfishly only wanted to save Rey and went off on a mission completely unprepared trying to save the day. Unlike in Rogue 1 he was not prepared, and not trained and ended up fucking up because he had no plan. Instead of the one man that he was sent to find he came back with another dashing smuggler, who shock they aren't all heroes like Han Solo, some are just in it for themselves
Rey essentially fell in love with the legend of Luke Skywalker and how his belief in Vader and trust in him caused him to change to the Light side finally. This misled her into walking into Snokes ship and allowing herself to be captured. Her actions allowed the apprentice to become the master
This movie showed how the best intentions don't always work, how heroes don't always save the day. Allies will desert you, friends will betray you, enemies may offer you a place by their side
I thought it was a much better film than TFA because it was a much more unique plot in comparison.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:12:53 on December 17, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you for sharing this thoughtful review. I liked what they tried to do more than the final execution. It had a good foundation, but there was a big chunk of content that should have been tightened up during production or killed in editing. Some of the comedy was fine, but some just murdered the pacing and prevented the movie from developing the tension it was attempting to evoke.
GIGM9 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:02:58 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is a really great review and I now feel less conflicted with myself about the film. While I generally enjoyed the movie overall and think its a great addition to the saga the thing that bugged me the most was the excess use of jokes, that leia scene and the finn/rose section of the movie. Some epic scenes and visuals in the movie just the weak points stick out too me too much as of right now. Hopefully after i see it again tonight the good parts will over shadow the niggling gripes i have about this movie.
Yes, it's different. But it's not different on the fanboys terms so it's worse than AotC
BigSnoke ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 12:13:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
If you liked this movie you are not a real Star Wars. If you like the ST you are not real a Star Wars fan.
The entire OT has been rendered pointless. Happy ending? Gone. Snoke? Pointless. Rey? Even more of a Mary Sue since she doesn't even have a special lineage. Kylo Ren? Still fucking sucks. Finn and Poe? What is the point of them? They're even more irrelevant than before.
Luke? Well to say he got ruined would be an understatement. And all just so they could make Rey the real hero.
People actually prefer this over the PT? That George's sequel trilogy WOULDN'T be better? Even Mark said that Disney should have listened to him.
But hey at least the fight scene was cool, very brutal.
NoxZ ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:05:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Still, the saying "too soon" has never been more applicable. All the heroics and epicness of the OT has resulted in 30 years of slight peace and back to square one? The result of the OT should have been something better, but then I guess we can't have new movies, idk, it's all kind of stupid.
bautin ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:29:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And so we always think.
World War I, the war to end all wars, ended in 1918. World War II began in 1939.
China managed to finish it's little civil war after the end of WWII. I mean, look at that. China was engaged in a civil war about 9 years after the end of World War I, then World War II interrupted their war. A war that may not be technically over.
5 years after the end of World War II and about a year after the communists took over China's mainland, they got involved in a minor scuffle called the Korean War.
Not long after that was over, a proxy war was fought for 20 years in Vietnam. And from Vietnam's perspective, it was just war after war after war.
At the end of the OT, they had assassinated the Emperor and destroyed a major military installation. There's no way the entire fleet was destroyed by that action. And while the power vacuum may have been an issue, it's not completely unbelievable that a significant remnant survived to eventually regroup.
So yeah. 30 years. Not bad.
Llaine ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:08:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with the point in essence, it would have been nice to see more of the peace though. Kinda feels like the victory of 6 went straight on to another death star in ep 7.
bautin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:27:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean technically we went from the victory of the Clone Wars to another galactic civil war in A New Hope.
These are stories about conflict. The time in between is immaterial to a point. We didn't see anything about the 20-ish years between Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope despite probably being relatively peaceful.
Llaine ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:46:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah true, I'm don't dislike the movies either but this aspect has just bugged me. Like it is annoying seeing the entire alliance squashed onto the Falcon now when in Ep 6 they'd basically routed the Empire. Imagine how much it'd suck seeing that if you were Leia, haha
Still, they managed to make a multi-planet killing base 100x the size of the death star and casually killed like 7 planets at once? Dumbest part of TFA by far, I mean you can't take Star Wars seriously, but that just made me throw my hands up and say "ok, I have seen enough". Just flat out stupid.
i have to admit i am still under new star wars movie buzz right now but it slowly wears off
ddd4175 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:51:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It did feel like it was trying too hard and was a little too predictable, as they say it is too "Disney". I still find it as an enjoyable movie and added more substance to the current trilogy but it's not any better than the original trio.
I'm not a huge star wars fan, never watched the first 3 but watched the rest. I thought the "humor" wasn't funny at all, the only times I laughed was the Mary Poppins in space scene and most of kylo Ren's scenes because he's always upset or angry, the only really entertaining part to me was when kylo Ren took Ray to snope or whatever his name was lol but they would jump from the middle of that scene to boring Finn and rose scenes, if your under 12 years old then this movies for you
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:07:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
After a lot of struggle, I've decided i'm not watching the movie. I'm reading the spoilers just out of curiosity
edit: After reading, I'm glad I'm skipping the movie. So instead of sitting through 2 and a half hours mad, I can just read this and enjoy all the bad moments I missed.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:19:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
People with genuine, justifiable, positive things to say about the film are down voted.
A guy deciding to ruin the movie for himself, and then state hes not even going to watch like some type of a fucken pariah doing the world a service is upvoted.
This is a massive initial outburst of fanboys going insane because "muh lore". People on letterboxd are saying it's great, and that's a much better venue for film discussion.
Your post is an example. You've decided you dislike it without having seen it. This is one of the worst online fanboy fits I've ever seen in a community.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:42:53 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:58:12 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And that's the problem. Disney can make whatever they want and their PR machine can make people watch it without changing a thing even when it's dreck. An Empire never listens to its people.
Osmodius ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:09:27 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm pretty conflicted. There were plenty of awesome scenes, I'm happy with most of the story, but there's a whole of junk inbetween it all.
Most of it has already been covered, but it really felt like there was a good movie or two in there, and then they just lathered up with nonsense to, I don't know what they wanted to achieve.
Luke milking a fat dragon? The fuck?
Magic skype calls through the force? Since when?
Snoke is a little bitch that does nothing then gets shanked?? Why did we even bother with a villain for one and a half movies if he's going to end up doing nothing and pissing himself.
Magic force holograms to make Kylo look even more like a whiny angst machine?
Dead yoda lightning storm what the fuck.
Oh there's cute penguin owls, nice. Oh they're back again. Oh and again. Oh Chewweeee is eating one. Oh and they're here again. Oh now they're crying. Oh now they're tiny wookiees.s Fuck off. This isn't Frozen.
Leia can fly sure okay why not.
But then there was so much quality.
The light speed ram. Holy fuck was that spectacular.
The Luke and Kylo plot twist, the internal struggle. Kylo isn't a bad guy, he was betrayed (or at least from his perspective it looks reasonably like that).
The way Kylo used the double lightsaber trick on Snoke was actually pretty good.
The humbling of Rey, and explanation of her flaws rather than her remaining as a magic super wizard of no flaws.
Actually there's more negatives than positives that I can remember, but I think they just stuck out more than the positives. I certainly had a few moments I was really enamoured with.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:47:57 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I think Rian just turned Star Wars' force into Looper's "tk"
uravg ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:22:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The scene where Finn was told that the rich guys were selling arms to both sides felt like an unnecessary social commentary for me. Star Wars is escapism I really don't want to be reminded of how bleak our real world is.
Extremely enjoyable. The characters in this new series are fantastic, their relationships genuinely interesting, and their motivations compelling and believable.
Sure, its a middle movie which is by necessity, to some degree, filler. Pieces moving around to setup the concluding chapter. But the questions it asked and the expectations it broke made it more notable than probably half the rest of the movies combined. The failure of heroes, the self conflict of villains, the nature of power, the soul of resistance. Heady stuff, but done effortlessly.
Personally I would have wanted more Finn, as I love his story so much and John Boyega has a presence and comic timing that elevates everything around him. But this is The Last Jedi, so I get that the focus has to be Luke, Rey and Kylo. All of who did phenomenal jobs. Mark Hamil and the jaded bitter old wizard arc was worth 30 years and 3 awful prequels waiting for. Ridely with Driver doing the antagonistic telepathic thing was flawless, as was the fight scene at Snokes extremely sick lair.
There was so much that happened and so many important beats hit that Ill definitely need to watch it a few more times to digest, but Real Stuff in here to talk about. Both in terms of plot and in terms of meaning.
EDIT: lmao at mad nerds downvoting a genuine contribution
Al89nut ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:26:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I suspect they've no idea what the final chapter will be
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:47:18 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just as Force Awakens felt like A New Hope 2.0, The Last Jedi had many similarities to The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi.
I really liked the Force ghost scene and a bunch of other things that were unexpected.
To me, the best moments were the scenes with Luke once again looking on at two suns and the scene with the young boy.
If that was the final scene in the very last Star Wars movie, I would have been ok with that because that's what Star Wars is all about :)
Someone I know actually called this the Dark Knight of the Star Wars franchise. Would anyone agree with that?
Dark Knight left the story in a new direction. This left it back at a New hope, where we can experience the story for a third time.
I agree with the end scene, felt more like the last scene of the entire saga.
mltronic ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:06:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How come no one is talking about most badass Force moment ever. What Luke pulled vs Kylo was epic!
I know Mark Hamill isnโt pleased with direction Ryan took with Luke but come on, that topped anything weโve seen before. I loved it.
Can you name a few? I just saw the film and didn't feel that there was anything major?
duffking ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 11:20:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not that guy, but I personally don't understand why the first order couldn't have just contacted some more ships and intercepted the resistance ones from hyperspace in front rather than slowly following them for the whole movie.
Well, my first issue is that everything happens in the exact nick of time, over and over again, starting from the bomber in the opening space battle
My second is that Leia flew through space just out of nowhere
My third issue would be that Luke went to all the trouble of projecting an image of himself but then died anyway
My fourth issue would be that Yoda can not only manifest, and not only does so to influence events taking place in the galaxy, but that he can go as far as summoning lightning and has done nothing and contributed nothing to any aspect of the plot in the last 30 years apparently
My fifth issue is that the entire conflict with Poe and the admiral on the cruiser could have been solved with a ten second explanation
My sixth issue relates to that, in that apparently there was a planet visible from the front window the entire time that nobody mentioned before, nobody saw before, Poe doesn't look out windows to maybe think that planet matters in any way
One bomber can just take out a colossal space dreadnought?
One fighter can just take out literally dozens of close-range defense turrets? What are those turrets for if they can't hit an X-wing? which appears to be a pretty standard kind of fighter?
i was disappointed that so many positives for the star wars storyline had to be paired with so many negatives. It was like a pseudo jar jar was superimposed on every scene i was enjoying because of the fact that it was disney
I'm just wondering how they'll deal with Leia's character in the next film, since Carrie's passed. Seems like they should have let her go and kept Luke on.
Movie was as good as the two previous Disney SW releases. My biggest issue is that there was a little bit too much goofy scenes (like with the Porgs) and some pacing issues in the first half.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:14:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:20:47 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yoda dies
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:16:39 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
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[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:17:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
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[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:17:54 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
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[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:18:09 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
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[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:18:29 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[Long Review / Opinion Piece: Part 5 of 5]
Overall this movie had a good story for Luke, Rey and Kylo; while the rest of the movie was "meh" (Poe's story-line) or downright awful, boring (shocking, the thought of Star Wars being boring is bizarre but it has happened for me) and annoying (Finn and Rose's side-plot). Unfortunately the bad parts just overshadow the good parts, especially when taken into consideration how little exposition there is and how much this film seems to be in defiance of the Star Wars lore and established by Lucas (mainly surrounding Rey's power and changes in how the Force works).
Star Wars just isn't Star Wars any more and while this had some moments that are unforgettable, it has unfortunately made me lose hope for the future of Star Wars. After this I doubt any Star Wars will be as good as the prequels (excluding Episode I), let alone the original trilogy. Part of me feels like the only way to redeem this franchise is to bring Lucas back, but even then it feels to much damage has been done to his story to redeem that.
"Moving Forward" and "Forgetting the Past" where the themes of the movie and for me that means moving forward from the hope their being another truly great Star Wars which deserves the name Star Wars.
Overall, you can tell this was made by Disney and several people whom all have varying (and weak knowledge) of the source material and while technically well made and shot with the effects and in some areas acting; it just lacks the passion, foresight or vision that it had under Lucas at the helm. JJ's "mystery box" style of story telling lead to know where and was ultimately a lie, a style of story telling that I see as lazy and pretentious.
I personally am no longer interested in the future of Star Wars (beyond an Obi-Wan Kenobi film if they manage to bring back Ewan McGregor), the departure is just too large for me. Sure Kylo and Poe are interesting, but the changes with the underlying premise of Star Wars with the workings of the Force and the main character Rey is just too off putting for me.
Like the Star Trek, I think this will seriously divided the fan-base of Star Wars for the first proper time and fragment it into group that like specific series or in this case trilogies.
6/10, while it has some great highlights; unfortunately the weakest entry in the series and ultimately the end of what Star Wars once was.
Luke hints to Poe that there is always a way, then confronts the First Order. They blast him and he walks away unscathed.
Luke duels with Kylo only to find that Luke WAS killed by the AT-AT blasts... He turns Force Ghost Blue revealing that he sacrificed himself, like Kenobi, but in a tricky way. Then we don't need that last island scene at all. Or the stupid disappearing dice. Dice? Really???
Nartsky ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:08:10 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ok for jokes, ok for histerical humiliated Luke, ok for all plot holes but WTF champagne and cops doin in a galaxy far far away?
I'm really disappointed as a fan and very confused of critics ranking. This rankcheating from Disney is so obvious. And again this piece of crap will gain millions $
As an old hardcore fan I found this movie somewhere in the middle. It doesn't deserve current level of hype. Cinematography is fine. Also some visual design works really well. I liked Crait planet. Music also good, Jonh Williams did a great job. But everything else...
What they had done to Luke? In SWEU Legends he was happy enough character with wife, child, bunch of followers etc. He did messed up things but he always fixing them. In Disney Extended Univers Luke is grim dark character with ruined life. Motivation of the Luke has no sense. He planted a map to find him. But he didn't want to be found. Genius writing! Also this movie continues trope of the soft reboots: old character gone exile and sit for ten-twenty years and waiting new protagonist. At least Tron Legacy did it. Also new Blade Runner. In short: SWEU: happy normal Luke; Disney EU: hobo Luke as plot device for fanservice and Rey development.
Lightsaber fights. Ah... It shooted in most aweful way possible. Look at LCC. Fans made great saber fights videos every year. Far more better than contemporary movie. It has to be a joke but it's not.
Throwing away JJ and other thing. I think main purpose of this film is to throw away as many thing as possible. Old stuff or new stuff it doesn't matter at all. All JJ mistery boxes gets into space. With a lot of the stuff from original trilogy. Get rid of pointless Phasma is OK. I feel no attachment to her at all. Snoke was relevant to plot. He can't be removed without a bit of explanation. He was a villan than shifted power balance in the Galaxy, ruins Republic etc. And we should at least know from where it came. Even some fan theroies was more entertaining than this.
Adding more things. Finn and Rose plotline is just disgrace. It trying to show something new but fails. Design of whole thing doesn't fit SW. For me Finn and Rose appears in Jupiter Ascending. Also dumb exposition from Rose is lazy and obvious. Benicio character was fun. But he also serves as plot device to get Fin to Supremacy and kick Phasma ass few minutes later. And many thinks that first half ot RotJ was stupid.
reddit really seems to like general problematic...i thought she was easily the worst character since Jar Jar
Dosca ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:35:51 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Everything about Rey and Luke along with Kyloโs conflict with Snoke was awesome. Especially everything that happened on the Island.
The 2 hour escape of a ship thatโs right behind them felt real damn stupid and a waste of a good threat. That couldโve been condensed in 40 minutes. Everything Finn and Rose did was completely pointless except for murdering a shitload of rebels.
When had just seen TFA, i was slightly disappointed because it resembled the OT so much but I still liked it and was already anticipating the second movie of the new trioloy. Now, I honestly (and this really pains me as a huge Star Wars fan) I'm not even interested in the third one. This movie had some great scenes, but the plot was bad and the humor was even worse. Also, WHY DID YOU JUST ERASE ALL THE BUILDUP FROM TFA RIAN JOHNSON? NOTHING HAPPENS IN YOUR MOVIE EXEPT FOR RUINING PLOTLINES THAT WERE PERFECTLY SET UP BY ABRAHAMS! God I'm disappointed.
Some good things (like the hyperspace attack), but I hate the plot and what they've done with Luke as a character. Apparently, and the force awakens had the same problem, the first three movies were meaningless. There is still a fucking rebellion - sorry, resistance - fighting the empire. Nothing has changed. "Now the war begins"? Then what was the point of the original movies? And Luke...what a genuinely nasty character now. Weak, whiny, and cowardly.
I hated Force Awakens. FA was that movie where except Han dies, nothing would be a spoiler. At the end it was just empire vs rebellion and deathstar destroyed, new emperor, a lone jedi seeking a hermit master.
I almost didn't go to this one. Would've been a shame. While not perfect, TLJ is a great SW movie. Finally the events don't happen because of a chain of lucky events, they have a reason. I really liked Rei Kylo dynamic. Disappointed that Rei didn't joined him, for me is one of - of it, that the movie chose from going something new, to return to the old narrative. I loved how they fixed some stupid Jar Jar Abrams plot failures, like Luke the hero choosing to GTFO while the galaxy burns. He is the reason things went haywire and feels broken. The movie is not perfect, leaves a lot of questions like who the fuck is snooke coming from and how is he so overpowered or how is the freaking republic so easily defeated. But it certainly won me over .
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:10:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I would recommend non of you see this movie just to protest Disney acquiring a near monopoly on the entertainment industry.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:21:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
ironically Disney is buying Fox who originally made Star Wars and judging by Deadpool/Logan, who'd make a better version of it
I for one really enjoyed it. It's inconsistent but hits some really high heights. Everything involving Luke, Kylo and Rey was great. The rebel subplot started off a bit iffily but once it got going I was really invested in it.
The new characters and the casino planet was where it faltered in my opinion. BDT was awful. Rose was really annoying when on the casino planet and I'd have much rather had Poe and Finn interact more, thankfully things improved once they infiltrated the base.
I like how they handled Leia. Could it have been more powerful? Yes, but I think they handled her final farewell with Luke in such a effective fashion that I didn't mind.
Everyone here has made much better points and observations than I can make.
However I donโt think it is as bad as people here are saying, nor is it as good as critics are saying. I really enjoyed it except for the some of the forced and childish humour, and I didnโt care for the lemming things, and I wish Snope had a bit more backstory,
Also, some of the cinematography was stunning.
Oh boy, I can't wait to talk about everything I enjoyed about this movie-
What the actual ef, thread.
(I can concede there were questionable choices, but I honestly I watched this to have a good time, which was had.)
whycalyl ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:54:05 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Which part did you like? I like how finally Leia shows her capabilities with the Force.. I kept hearing Luke saying "the Force is strong in my family" in the background.
What risk? Going to the casino while we wait for a ship to outrun another ship? Oh and at the end we have another fucking death star machine plus a recycled Hoth battle.
This is an issue that's always existed in the SW universe though. First Ben and the Yoda both died only to soon come back and give valuable advice to the hero. I don't see why that should change with Luke in IX, he's definitely become one with the force, unlike most Jedi whose bodies don't disappear after death
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:05:14 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Throwing my opinion in with the rest. If these things got taken out, the remainder would have been a good film. Just off the top of my head:
Porgs. Pointless, ham-fisted merchandising.
Not the animals themselves, since they had plot relevance, but the phrase 'crystal critters'. Ugh.
'Chrome Dome'. Awkward to cut out by itself, but see next point.
The entire Finn and Rose subplot. Cut it, splice in the scenes of them having the original plan, Poe can still mutiny, cut to the scene of their capture. Still works since we saw the distinct shape of the tracker both in the planning scene and the capture scene. Shot of the very end of their escape of the collapsing hangar to lead in to next sequence.
Luke's shoulder brush post-barrage
Leia's spacewalk. Cut the interior shot of the bridge being destroyed, we see her in a hospital bed later and can assume she was injured in the explosion.
The kiss. Cut just before it, we next see Rose being dragged in on a stretcher. No weird shot of her 'maybe' dying. We know she's alive, we see Finn pulling her in and calling for a medic, having last seen her injured and very weak. Simple.
Poe telling the shuttle pilot to go 'full throttle!!'. Like there was any possible reason the pilot wouldn't already be flooring it.
That's it off the top of my head. Could end up with a decent fan edit in a few months, more manageable length under two hours as well.
Oh man I really liked it! The fight scenes were amazing! Especially in the throne room. Did two scenes I didnโt like was the floaty scene with Leia, plus the escape on the gambling planet. Loved Rey and Kylo Rens development, and Luke was pretty much as I expected, which was risky and interesting, very fitting
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 01:57:50 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Warning: if you have any positive comments about this film, please direct them towards /r/StarWars. This entire subreddit is an echo chamber of negativity and you'll only be downvoted.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:04:15 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, not rightfully so. That's retarded. People aren't wrong for liking the film. Instead of downvoting, why don't you generate discussion and dispute their points? Downvoting shouldn't be used as a disagreement tool.
Alright, the Rebel Cruise Ship crashing the Star Destroyer with light speed has got to be one of the best Star Wars moments of all time.
Minscota ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:06:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It would be if auto pilot didnt exist.
caodalt ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:58:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There were some good things and not-so-good things in The Last Jedi, but what worries me the most is that JJ Abrams is going to mess up the good things that were set up in TLJ because we all need a rehash of Return of the Jedi :/
I loved this film. It felt like Star Wars while still being ballsy and trying something new. Everything story-wise and execution-wise was perfect IMO, lots of surprises. The ONLY issue I have with it is the over-use of one-liners and humor which, at times, just became too much and took away from the seriousness of certain scenes, - but maybe I'll change my mind when I see it again. Overall, a great star wars film! :D
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:37:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
The way they handled Luke in this movie was new and incredibly ballsy. They were basically turning the main hero good-guy into a more complex, nuanced character with his inner conflict. (Almost killing Kylo Ren, realizing the Jedi were overly confident) Poe was very cocky and too confident at the beginning of the movie but afterwards he started to see his mistakes too. And Yoda dances
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:10:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I liked a lot about it, but the Finn and Rose sub-plot was a bit annoying. Seeing the space upper class was a nice change but honestly I'd rather just see inside another slightly different cantina. I thought Domhnall Gleeson was fantastic in the role, proper old school Star Wars empirical villain.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:55:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This film needed more Justin Theroux
citabel ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:23:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Story wise it wasn't that big of a surprise, but the actors all did a great job. Especially Mark Hamill, i'd say. My only issue is with the jokes and the charm that the first movie had either is gone or is kinda weak. Did not find the cute and fluffy bird-things that funny.
Luke, Rey & Ben storyline - A+
Pretty much everything else - C (with special mention to the awful Marvel-style โhumourโ between Poe & Hux, boy did that start me off on a bad note)
To sum it up in a letter grade, itโs a B and in a word, itโs frustration; the storyline I liked I absolutely loved, unfortunately it was wrapped up in all this other fluff that was kind of dumb or totally superfluous.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:43:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Watched it last night, it was pretty good, I donโt like it as much as force awakens which I walked out of the cinema loving right away and still do, This one was just....different. Itโs hard to explain. I guess itโs not a bad thing. It will take another viewing.
Side note I could have really done without all the Finn sub plot. They really donโt know what the hell to do with him. His character was fun and interesting in the force awakens but it felt so forced in this movie.
I'm seeing a lot of hate for the Hyperspace Kamikaze maneuver by Holdo - I personally loved it and thought the scene was gorgeous. However, I'd really like to hear some justifications as to how it could, if at all, be consistent with the previous lore.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:47:02 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Its consistent with the First Order being the most inept force in the galaxy since such an insane plan works
SSF2_OW ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:57:41 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rebel: "I'm scared of the First Order"
Me: "Why, they do nothing but die and they fail at everything they do?"
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:15:33 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This movie gets too much hate. People complained that TFA was too safe, and they gave us a film that is anything but safe. Sure some of the scenes don't work and I have some grievances, but it atleast challenges you.
If you liked this movie you arenโt a true fan. Itโs that simple.
Siglyr ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 16:47:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why are half the comments talking about "shitty Marvel movies" when it's different studios (yes Disney I know but still different people), and also Marvels are.. well, good? I'm so surprised at this thread. I'm surprised at the downvotes for people that liked the movie too.
tlvrtm ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:06:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think the main comparison comes from the constant quips characters have to make, that get in the way of any real emotion lingering for longer than 5 seconds, because -- hey look Porgs!!
Note: I didn't mind the Porgs too much. Yeah, they're for marketing purposes but they're in the movie for like a minute total. Nothing compared to Jar Jar Binks or the Jar-Jarring Plot in this movie.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:06:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You aren't allowed to like this movie.
If you are you are a paid shill apparently.
The circlejerk is real, these people are insufferable and will never be happy.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:19:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If anything, the fact that the comments saying they hate this movie are also often accompanied by comparisons to Marvel movies which are, in their opinion, also shit, leads me to believe I will love this move; if that makes sense?
Siglyr ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:28:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You make sense :) Same kind of comments that say the critics are paid and stuff like that
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:56:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah exactly.
I feel like there's just no pleasing those kinds of people.
jmann9678 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:46:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I loved this film, it took risks, it didn't go the way I thought it was going to and I loved it for it. Sure some of the humour was a little forced but it wasn't Jar-Jar Binks bad. People complain that TFA played it too safe but now TLJ takes risks and everyone hates it, there's no pleasing fans.
I think the fuss is more because people basically didn't like the story. If they liked it more they'd be willing to overlook the bad points.
I know I was hoping for more pay off from Reys origin. Her being a nobody would be fine, but I (like everyone else) got the impression they built it up to be a thing in TFA, so it just feels like a non pay off to me.
But hey, that seems to be one of the things a lot of people like about TLJ. I'm hoping its for a crazy twist episode IX.
death of snoke was very anticlimactic. any reason why that can be easily done ? isn't he like somewhat powerful, pulling strings, overpowering two of them. afaik, darth maul survived with such injury.
what's that thing luke did at the end of the movie called ? battle meditation ?
weren't force users generally aware of their surroundings ? even considering the guy's obvious hubris, you'd think a deadly weapon might be worth minding.
2.projection. actually a cool force power tho I highly suspect Snoke was lying when he said he'd created Reylo's connection as that's another form of projection imo
If you're like me and haven't seen it yet but on here because you don't care about spoilers and want to gauge Reddit's reaction: remember that Reddit thought Rogue One was a good film. So yeah. I still have hope this is much better than what the audience here is saying.
There's always a certain amount of hype and hypster-positivists that will upboat it, probably shills too. In rogue one the positivists has something to go on, the cynics were intially quneched.
With this movie, the reality is so bad the hypesters dont have even a foothold
I felt disappointed at first, but then I realized there is still Episode IX which is ostensibly the "Skywalker Saga" - so I think that much of this movie will be turned on its head in the next one. Not all is as it seems, methinks.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 18:38:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
that's JJ's MO as in Lost, keep saying "I know this one wasn't satisfying, but just wait til the next one, and the one after that and so on". JJ was the architect of the franchise so I see 9 also being disappointing and being told just wait til episode 10 etc
meeyans ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:12:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
โstupid crapโ such as what? killing snoke was the best decision the sequels have ever made, because of fucking course kylo ren wouldโve done that. the film isnโt about snoke, it was a trick, the film is about kylo ren.
the only decision i believe could be percieved as โstupidโ is having leia float back into the ship through the force.
It's not just because he died. It's because they built him up across the first film then in trailers and all he ever managed to do was bop Rey on the head with a lightsaber. It was necessary but somewhat annoying. People want to see his powers. What he can do.
Ratachu ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:16:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yep, I agree with you. The thing with Snoke is that JJ probably wanted a Palpatine character that wasent really needed at all I think.
I had a feeling fans were going to hate this entry coming out. For me it was a great ride that is deserves a 9/10. What let it down for me was two aspects that being Snoke and his death which left no answers for his backstory. Also I did not like Finn/Rose/DJ's side plot, it ultimately felt pointless and they could have just snuck onto the ship without the casino nonsense.
Other than that it was an amazing film that had some great plot twists along the way. As much as I would have loved to see a Kylo/Rey team up, they have set it up nicely for a big showdown going into 9.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 03:24:02 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I havenโt read one all out positive post and Iโve been reading for awhile, I canโt believe Iโm saying this but I donโt care.... downvotee...I loved it.
[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 01:36:58 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Some of the comments in this thread are so melodramatic it's unreal
tggoulart ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 17:21:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I must have been the only one that isn't complaining about the humor, it had way less than TFA. When did it go overboard? Aside from the opening scene with hux
When did it go overboard? The opening scene which was pure spaceballs? It might aswell have been iron man on the call with the supposedly smart leader of the galaxys most dangerous fleet
Luke brushing of the artillery against him? It was his going out battle but the suspense just had to be suspended becuase ITS FUNNY AND EASY GOING FROM NOW ON MY CONSUMERS
I just wish you would stick to marvel movies, instead of turning everything else into them
My theory: Snoke is not dead!
I think that Snoke was either just a force projection of the real Snoke (similar to what Luke did near the end, but way more powerful) OR that Snoke was just a body braincontrolled by the real Snoke.
Snoke was WAY too powerful, to just die like that.
Snoke will return in the next movie.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:27:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
There is only one reason why the movie kill off Snoke. They don't know how to write the backstory of Snoke. He was the rebirth of the Sith and probably the reason why the First Order rose from ashes of the Empire. But that's the problem. If he's that powerful, where was he during OT and prequels? Darth Plagueis seems to be the most plausible answer but it won't make any sense to the general audience. I don't blame Rian Johnson for this, it's entirely JJ Abrams's fault. TFA should have at least explained the rise of First Order and Resistance army during those 30 years span.
If what you say is true, I doubt that the movie will reveal Snoke's backstory. He is just going to be a mysterious Sith lord. With that being said I don't even know who's the main villain in the trilogy if Snoke really is dead. Kylo Ren is far too weak and vulnerable to the light side. I hope we don't get another redemption story like Darth Vader.
nilxnoir ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:04:41 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I liked this movie but I didn't love it unfortunately
A big part of this was Rose and her and Finns side plot. As far as I'm concerned she is the Jar Jar of this film.
To me it was flawed but it felt like a consequence of the context of the film rather than a fault of the creators, but the good outweighed the bad, at least for me. I like that it wasn't a rehash and that I didn't just predict the whole movie by the start of it much more than I disliked the Leia Popping scene and the forced hey-buy-these-cute-plushies. To me that alone was better than TFA when anyone knew what was going to happen from the set up of the movie.
It felt like it wanted to start over from TFA, giving a weird feeling, but I think it was the only option to fix the mistakes from TFA. I hate the JJ Abrams thing of setting up mysteries and threads with no actual plan for it. I hated that Rey was just an OP instant jedi with a wishy washy backstory that supposely justified everything but it was actually just a coverup for the thinness of her character. And yes, there it wasn't an actual plan: article. This one fixed some of that: I liked that Rey parents were nobody. I like that she is weaker than Snoke and that she is scared by her power and doesn't know what to do, and at least her overwhelming power has somewhat put into perspective saying that Kylo also had that raw power. Now she has to learn and become better, struggle. I like that Poe had to learn from his recklessness and makes serious mistakes, it made the character have a flavor. Finn, well, that fell flat. The new girl too. They kept showing that bracelet or whatever and she explained stuff but for some reason I didn't care for her. I don't know why. As consequence their scenes together felt also flat. ย
Let's be honest, there it could be a Star Wars movie directed by Jesus with a buget of 500 million dollars that came with an electrode that provided orgasms throughout its runtime and still it would left some fans totally disappointed. I applaud that it had some vision, some intent of telling a story rather than a cold company safe inoffensive montage of predictable bits. ย
The cinematography was fucking great.
I like that the plans didn't work. I was surprised when the plan that they set up in the middle of it DIDN'T end up being the against-all-odds-victory climax. TFA didn't managed to do that.
Some of the callbacks felt a little forced. The Leia message, to me, was just a "hey remember the move you liked?". Yoda was a surprise but to me it fitted the moment.
The fucking quips. I felt so taken away from the movie. TFA also had this. That sounds like a corporate forced thing because they believe audience can't go for 2 minutes without a joke. A marvel joke, not even a star wars joke.
The casino scene felt so weird. Like it was made for a movie that had time and this one wasn't it. It was cut short but at the same time if it had been longer it wouldn't have fit the plot of the movie.
The premise was very interesting. The slow burning of the fuel for an imminent death was original. I would have liked that the rules of what can and cannot be detected were clearer.. I don't understand how a masive number of transporters will not be detected, and why they didn't do it sooner or slower.
Kylo was a very interesting character in TFA and this one manages to add something on top of that. I like that character and the story with Luke. Also the dynamic of him with Rey was interesting. Made me wondering what the hell will happen in the next one.
Snoke's death was...a thing. It was surprising, and weird. But I gave negative shits about that character, just a boring copy-paste of the emperor with (again) just a promise of something else, so screw him. Kylo is a more interesting antagonist.
Luke's character was good. I like that he had an arc in the movie.
I like the introduction of the new things. There weren't that many but I like the bombers, the natives of the planet and the salt ships that they used in the end.
Bombers is a joke. They are too massive and too slow to pass throught defense fire. They should be having powerful deflector shield and use deflector interference effect (deflector power increases in tight formation) but they explodes from single shot.
r/movies will hate it and downvote everyone who doesn't hate it. Most everyone else will love it.
I thought it was okay. It was a high-risk effort that didn't quite work out. It's not the movie I would have made, but I can appreciate what they were trying to do.
Minscota ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:31:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
r/movies loved the first one of the trilogy and anyone who said otherwise was roasted last time around. Bullshit.
Disregarding the divisive story elements for a moment, I just want to give credit to the amazing creature designs in the film. Everything from the nuns on Ahch-To to the crystal foxes on the salt planet. Even the Porgs which i thought might be overdone from the promotional stuff ended up being quite endearing.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 12:08:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yet once again they avoided using any classic aliens that weren't Ackbar, Chewie or Nien Nunb. Having a Hutt and some Twi'leks on Casino World would have been perfect.
cmcpress ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 16:51:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I'm just back from seeing it - It most definitely is better than Rogue One and TFA, but it's also the most Disneyfied - I mean if Disney made a propaganda film that was meant to convince a population on the brink of a War to send their children into the meat grinder - this is that film.
It's in turns like Harry Potter, Doctor Who, The Phantom Menace, a 1940's war movie, the Last Samurai and a modern Chinese epic action fantasy wushu movie. As Star Wars goes - it's a great tribute to Carrie Fisher, and her ghost haunts this movie (despite the cringey force user scene).
That is to say that I came out of feeling a little mixed - part of me thinks it's brilliant, and part of me thinks it's sappy, manipulative and with some shockingly bad CGI in places.
The plotting is great, the visuals are mostly amazing, and for a franchise known for dodgy dialogue, this doesn't disappoint. It probably had the greatest emotional impact of all the movies in places - but that emotional impact almost seemed plastic... Disneyfied, again, is probably the best adjective here.
The overall story is well thought out, even the stuff that could have been Ewoks II doesn't overstay its welcome - and some of the stuff that had been built up previously just fizzled out. It IS overlong, they could have lost the B-story which goes nowhere and has very little ramifications, despite how charming the two characters are.
There is humor in this - but it feels kinda cheap - sometimes letting all the air out of a scene as if it's afraid of getting a bit too dramatic.. I expect people will love the humor all the same, precisely for that reason.
It's very kiddyish - In places it seemed to be aimed at the same audience as Caravan of Courage - which seemed a bit incongruous in places, considering the large numbers of deaths in the franchise, and the heavy war setting - so in that respect, and many others, it's like a mashup of the prequel trilogy and the original trilogy.
The politics of the film are pretty on the nose without much subtlety (cough General Social Jutice complete with died hair being a victim of mansplaining) - but it seems afraid to follow its own convictions through - one character in particular being left off the hook and patted on the head despite being quite obviously, from the perspective of the film, a mutineering prick.
There is a running theme of role models that runs through the whole film, and the final, and most Disney scene smashes you over the head with that message - like Orko delivering a lecture after He-man, which - after an all round pretty good film left a bit of a sour taste in the mouth.
This is probably what I should have expected from Disney Star Wars - far more than TFA and further from Rogue One. On one hand a competently made film from a talented director, on the other hand a masterful exercise in manipulation.
tlvrtm ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:00:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
but it's also the most Disneyfied - I mean if Disney made a propaganda film that was meant to convince a population on the brink of a War to send their children into the meat grinder - this is that film.
Uh... why would Disney do that? And how is that "Disneyfied"?
cmcpress ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:43:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm saying if there were ever a situation where they would... Like those propaganda war films \ cartoons in the 40s... Bugs bunny beating up Hitler and all that. I mean look at the kid wearing the rebel ring at the end.. If that doesn't make you uncomfortable...
I think people are just finding similarities between this film and the traditional "Disney/Marvel" film type. Notably a stupidly weak villain role and some Marvel styled humour dotted around the film. Also Porgs are a pretty blatant Disney mascot, they have a few good moments but for the most part are just the brunt of jokes that fall kinda flat. I can't complain about Porgs because they're barely in the movie at all, but obviously were created for marketing.
By no means is this the same as a typical Marvel/Disney movie - it's still undeniably Star Wars. Hell, I'm pretty sure the two movies are produced by different studios. But it's the first time that a Star Wars film has notably taken elements from a typical modern Marvel film and used them, and the result is pretty jarring. The humour is the one thing I see most reviews talking about, where some feels almost ripped directly from a Guardians of the Galaxy script.
cmcpress ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:47:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Pretty much that, plus the Children in the series were idealised slightly, like young Anakin from TPM.... Like they were going for a spielbergian thing but without the depth so they end up like kids from a 70s Disney film.
Kristin_W ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 18:41:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone know where I can download/watch this movie? I don't have the opportunity to see it in the cinema and it's going to take months before it's released elsewhere.
gopivot ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 17:48:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
god damn people does really hate this movie ,i feel like i have shit taste in movies because i like the film :/
after the film finish i thought to myself "that feel pretty weird" "some people gonna really hate this movie for sure" but damn i didn't expect this much lol
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:01:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
gopivot ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:17:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
thank for the replied! is it what fan of bvs feel like during the all the hate train?
it just that I keep thinking why i'm okay and like some of the part that people really hate it and yeah it probably because my own preference but I just keep wondering about it
Svarec ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:50:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I like the movie too, but I'm not blind to its flaws. And there are a lot of flaws. I'm honestly curious how it will do on IMDB or RT user score. The stellar reviews will have people totally hyped and I feel like this movie will dissappoint a lot of people.
gopivot ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:53:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
yeah and i mean looking back now how does this film has such a high reviews when people didn't like the film this much? (i know it just reddit but that isn't too far off)
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:01:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The thing you should remember is that Star Wars is on this otherworldly tier, where no other movie franchise has reached, and the expectations for it are vast and different for everybody. I've honestly learned not to listen to reviews specifically for Star Wars because it's such a crap-shoot.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 12:03:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Polarizing film, that's for sure. I don't think it's flawed, it's just that you either love the direction it's taking Star Wars or you hate it. It's not objectively amazing and it's not objectively terrible, though it's certainly also not objectively mediocre. Very strange situation for a film to be in.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 13:54:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
duma347 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 20:56:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not the only one that thinks snoke is coming back am I? He could link two force users together across the galaxy and drag someone across the floor also whilst being across the galaxy. You're telling me he can't also save himself from death? You know that thing that was hinted at in the prequels with the whole Darth Plageuis part?
Right but if he didn't know there was a back entrance, how did he think they were going to escape? Don't you think he should have told them that was the plan?
I dunno. His plan was possibly just to distract them and hope they came up with a plan to escape.
[deleted] ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 19:09:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
All the top comments in this thread are a list of complaints. The movie was smart, funny, intense, and touching where it needed to be. It was better written and acted than any previous Star Wars movie. It was fun.
Yeesh, the fandom for this franchise has become so fucking whiny and toxic.
Well, we can atleast agree that the writing wasn't airtight.
Now go on, just be aware that you are the kind of person who attacks peoples english online, a language that isnt necessarily their first language, instead of facing their points when they don't agree with you. God help you!
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:46:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yup! The same has been true of every Star Wars movie.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 13:35:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
How do you grow the legacy if you literally make the OT pointless with all the characters having done everything for no reason when we are back at Rebels vs Empire with rookie Jedi as the New Hope. Why are we rehashing this shit?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:59:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Wow, the ammount of hate this movie is getting is surprising me. I liked it a lot. Rey and Kylo interactions were great, all scenes Luke was in were great, the humor was amazing, I liked Snoke's death (even if I did think they totally wasted a character they had built for 2 movies), Luke facing Kylo was incredible.
I hated however Rose and Finn. I hated their stupid casino subplot, I hated the kiss, I hated her character. I felt like this movie would be MUCH better had they allowed Leia do die destroying the fleet and Finn or Rose to sacrifice to destroy the cannon. Seriously, fuck Rose
dino_wang ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 15:51:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Forgive me for my English, cause I'm from Taiwan XD
I really really like this movie. To me, it brought the franchise back to its core, which to me is HOPE. Stripped of all the things that made the saga iconic(Skywalker, the force, lightsaber, etc), the thing that draws people the most is the idea that hope can keep you strong, evil will never defeat good because we have hope. The movie kept emphasizing at "forget about all those things that you remember", like Luke throw away the lightsaber that Rey gave him, Snoke talking about Kylo Ren's "ugly mask"(or something like that), Yoda coming back only to burn down all that was left of the Jedi temple, and the fact that Rey is just a nobody, I think all that is Rian Johnson wanting to bring Star Wars back to its root, and to me, he did a damn good job of that. The whole setting of the movie really gives you a feeling of desperation, and that is essentially what the rebel is about, they always find hope in the most unlikely situation. And that last shot is the icing on the cake for me, I can only imagine that was Rian Johnson grabbing a broomstick as a lightsaber when he first saw the original trilogy, pure magic of cinema. So, for all those reasons, I can look past some issues that everyone in this thread has bought up and thoroughly enjoy this movie, at least after my first viewing lol
8.5/10
Aside from a few cringy moments and those minion-like hamsterducks I really liked it. This movie just didn't give a fuck and pulled the rug out from under the audience, and I applaud the creators for it. They were basically saying "Oh, TFA was too predictable? Well here you go then!"
snoke got killed in the exact same way the emperor did, in the exact same scenario...
just because it happened in the second movie instead of the third it doesn't make it original or groundbreaking
It's all plan of the emperors master plan and he shows up personally to finish off the rebels. Luke tries to talk down Vader because he sees the good in him...Vader refuses to listen to reason takes him to the emperor. Luke is a about to die and Vader kills the emperor..
...There's even this exact specific moment where Snoke shows Rey how hopeless it is and all her friends will die...it was the exact same thing.
I'm a comitted star wars fan seen nearly all the films in the cinema and I loved it! people moaned about rey being a mary sue in force awakens and this was deffo the most we've seen her struggle the kylo ren turn was classic sith apprentice turning on the master the whole luke skywalker projection was well done aswell yeah their was a bit of forced humour but there was alot of well done humour aswell people just love to moan
blambliab ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 21:35:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I loved how they turned things on their head with Snoke and Kylo. Most of us expected Snoke to be the main bad guy in this trilogy, and Kylo to be the conflicted puppet, a wannabe Vader, who'll eventually turn or be killed. Taking out Snoke only to take his place and turn on Rey made Kylo a great villain imo. I can't wait to see where they will go with those two in episode 9.
The movie is way too long, has an entire plot line that goes nowhere and means nothing (just so they could have an asian on the film to pander to the chinese market), completely and irrevocably destroys Luke Skywalker's character just so Rey can shine a little bit more and has some of the worst character deaths in the entire franchise. Also it throws several unexplained plot points from TFA into the trash.
This is not a great movie by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, it's easily the worst Star Wars film since Attack of the Clones.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:23:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
first Han, now Luke and Ackbar (and Leia Poppins). Disney is ruining the OT.
bunnymud ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:25:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Pimp Disney put Star Wars on the corner.
[deleted] ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 21:14:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Finn's entire subplot wastes an hour of the fucking film and means nothing. It could've easily been cut and it would affect nothing.
Luke's death is horribly anti-climatic and a horrible send-off to the true hero of the franchise, and one of the most well known ficitional characters ever. I felt disgusted watching it.
Also, they fucking killed General Ackbar.
accaris ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 13:59:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This film apparently only has a 13% on Reddittomatoes
SthrnCrss ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:02:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
10 minutrs until the movie starts in mh teather. Please be fucking awesome, let our proud guyd in white put an end to the ressistance scum.
Screw the haters. Not a perfect film by any means, but when "TIE Fighter Attack" cued in on Crait I was grinning like a child. Can't wait to see it again.
I gotta disagree there, I loved the tribute and binary sunset playing was perfect to me. I didnt think he needed to die but he'll be back as a force ghost.
In a way it was better. He didnโt give kylo the satisfaction of killing him in person.
DrSmersh ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 05:43:27 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
God I cant tell you how much i HATED ep7, couldnt finish rogue one.
BUT THIS, BOY THIS BROUGHT ME HOPE FOR THE SERIES AGAIN, loved so so much, I went in expecting so little and came out very happy. Great movie, thanks new director for saving the movie franchise
Siglyr ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 13:15:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Damn, a lot of criticism in this thread. I thought the movie was great. The only thing I didn't like was the casino planet subplot, but it was just ...ok, not horrible or anything. They took a lot of risks and liberties and I liked that, it takes balls! It still felt like a Star Wars movie and there are very few that can take me on such a rollercoaster of emotions. It's Star Wars, so I think the expectations are great, but at the end of the day it's just a movie, and it was a good one.
A lot of people have problems with the death of Snoke. I thought it made sense; it's Rey and Kylo's turn, and I didn't want another Emperor/Vader story and dynamic. The Leia skywalking scene was weirdly shot admittedly but it's not a movie-ruining thing, come on. It was great to see her use the Force and see how powerful everyone is in the Skywalker family.
Idk a lot of people are taking things personally when a movie isn't tailored to their exact expectations.
ITT: people finding literally anything bad to say about the movie. Did anyone ever claim the saga was a masterpiece?
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:54:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:59:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
not at Disney World
bunnymud ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:03:26 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A lot of reviews over on RT
blaineh2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:58:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly, i don't particularly love marvel movies but they are way more entertaining and have less problems than this movie
TLJ has flaws and for some they are major
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:43:37 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It had the highest RT score of the franchise last time I looked.
nicroni ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 13:48:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I loved the movie yet I'm so conflicted at the same time. I agree with George Lucas in that it was beautifully made, but I'm not so sure how I feel about the character's directions -- mainly Luke.
I'm seeing it again tomorrow; maybe I'll have a more solid opinion on it.
mikahebat ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:50:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Man that Poe vs Dreadnought scene. Gives me Char vibes. A shame his X-Wing is not red. :P
socks888 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:33:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Jus wanna say at least they made a movie which is difficult to spoil...
No OMG-WTF moments but just the right pacing and enough things happening to keep it entertaining. No fan service either jus a normal story (which in some ways is a good thing)
Man some of yall are obviously whining for the sake of whining. That's what you get for trying to make something out of the Star Wars franchise that it isn't. In your head it's super complex and youthink up amazing theories but it is, and always has been a campy movie for all ages, and all levels of fandom. I thought it was amazing, enjoyed every second of it. I can see the flaws but i don't care. Overanalyzing will kill your enjoyment of just about anything.
Ceez92 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 16:55:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone want to bet that planned trilogy might involve Snoke in some way or form? If not we'll probably get backstory on him through books which honestly is a cop out.
This is excellent... The criticism about TFA: "Is a reboot of a New hope, we want something new" TLJ does something new: "Shut up Disney, this isn't a marvel movie, we don't want this new things."
New didn't have to mean 2 very weak deaths, a runtime thats too long, and no duels, did it? It can't JUST be different, it also has to be goods and watchable.
So there are only 2 ways of making Star Wars movie? Either totally copy the plot of an existing one or make something which doesn't respect previous movies at all.
cwatz ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:29:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That also implies its the same people commenting. There are a lot of people on the internet.
kievrob ยท 273 points ยท Posted at 22:05:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
"We are going to win because we donโt fight what we hate, but we save what we love."
Bitch, Finn was trying to save the surviving rebels that he thinks of as his only family, do you think he tried to destroy the cannon because he hated it?
slurpie10 ยท 170 points ยท Posted at 22:46:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
that cannon bullied finn in the academy
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 09:55:26 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The cannon is Keaton
ThirdRook ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:17:49 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He was always scum.
momo_thesheep_baa ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 06:51:10 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
that line felt like one of those moments where, when shooting the scene, the director was like "daM BOYS !!! THAT'S IT- THERE'S THE KILLER LINE!!!!! GIVE IT TO EM"
but when she said it I just cringed really badly and any remaining hope I had left for this movie just went down the drain.
mcafc ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:30:53 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lol she was literally the only part of the movie I could complain about. Everything else was fine creative decisions.
thobek ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 03:10:05 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I groaned at that line... who talks like that. Finn should of first did an eye roll + sigh when she said it, then when she went in for the kiss he should of blocked it with his hand.. denied!
chubbyurma ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:47:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Also that sentence makes no sense. Fighting what you hate is the sole principle of war anyway.
chubbyurma ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:49:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Also the statement makes no sense at all.
Fighting what you hate is kinda the sole principle of war.
_Ishmael ยท 123 points ยท Posted at 20:45:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Am I the only finding it really hard to believe how powerful the empire/first order is despite being beaten at almost every turn? A New Hope: Death Star gets destroyed but I accept that was only a small portion of the empire. Then the Empire Strikes Back, the empire regains some control. Then Return of the Jedi the second Death Star is destroyed, Vader is destroyed, and the Emperor is destroyed. The in The Force Awakens the good guys are still apparently losing. Okay, fine, then the First Order somehow has an even bigger and better Death Planet which is destroyed. Then in The Last Jedi, the First Order is STILL somehow dominating the resistance. Look I get this isn't a documentary but any victory the rebels have just feels cheap now because I know that in the next film the First Order will still be a massive threat because the plot demands it.
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 00:41:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Tbf in TFA, the Resistance is a small subsect of the Republic which gets wiped out by the First Order's starkiller. So atleast TFA had the Republic fill the void that was left in Episode 6 but in the Last Jedi, it makes no sense why the Resistance hasn't increased in strength and the First Order hasn't decreased in strength. Only reason why these things occur is because the plot demands it.
MrNature72 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:06:27 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Right? I mean, they lost a Dreadnought, Snoke's capital ship, snoke himself, and a fuckload of other ships to like, 4 rebel ships and a small regiment of fighters and bombers.
jollyreaper2112 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 21:15:42 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The explanation is they put zero thought into any of this. The only way to save your sanity is to realize you should never put more thought into a story than the creators did. I still have trouble accepting this, thus the madness endures.
pivotalsquash ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:55:48 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Another way to look at it. Our story is about the rebels resistance etc not about the empire/new order. We don't see their countless wins because that's the norm we see the exceptions which make stories worth telling.
ThatBrownDude ยท 1310 points ยท Posted at 10:47:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I like how 2 years of fan theories about Snoke and Rey's parents just went out the window with no real major revelations.
purest_blue_nugget ยท 190 points ยท Posted at 11:19:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Kylo could've been lying?
Deepandabear ยท 127 points ยท Posted at 13:00:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought she agreed though because she came to the same conclusion in the evil cave thing.
Drama79 ยท 76 points ยท Posted at 15:06:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ah, the evil cave of...something. What was that glass? I don't suppose it matters, but that was a weird moment.
Also, RE: the parents, now JJ's back in the driver's seat for IX, he could well pivot it if he wants to. We'll see.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:33:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
wait, he's back? I presumed it would be another director. why was he not the one to direct VIII?
Drama79 ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 15:38:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The plan was different directors for each movie. Then JJ publicly said he was sad he didn't sign up for all three. Then Colin Trevorrow, who was signed for IX, made Book of Henry, and Disney took Star Wars off him. Three days later, they announced JJ was back in the chair.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:46:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
oh that's interesting. I hope JJ has a solid plan for IX if that is the case.
Milo_Hackenschmidt ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:29:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh yeah, the mirrors. I forgot that was a thing that happened.
Ianchez ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:24:52 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That cave is weird, but somehow I think it showed everything its cyclical, atemporal, we never saw Rey coming out of it, and she was talking in past tense.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:50:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
martin0641 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:06:32 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
At my theater one of the previews had a SciFi flick with Natalie Portman, I was like hey the princess is back in the wrong movie!
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:05:05 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That would be so confusing if it did happen.
Asiriya ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 18:46:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I doubt it's got anything to do with JJ, it will be KK and her """""story"""" team.
Rahdahdah ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:16:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Upside Down
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 00:45:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It would make a certain amount of sense. Anakin came from nowhere, a slave junker on tatooine in the arse end of nowhere. Who became the most feared man in the galaxy, his son brought hope to a galaxy and his daughter destroyed an empire. His grandson wants to destroy both sides and it takes a daughter of junkers from a desert planet in the arse end of nowhere
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:30:28 on December 28, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:42:38 on December 28, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Meh, I liked them.
TareXmd ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 20:34:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He basically read her thoughts and used them against her to try to tempt her to 'be something'. I don't think he knows shit about her parents. Otherwise this would be really, really lazy writing.
harbinger12313 ยท 130 points ยท Posted at 11:27:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with that proposition. We've no reason to believe he's telling the truth. I mean, he did play Snoke like a fool, so he's proven himself crafty.
[deleted] ยท 364 points ยท Posted at 12:15:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I see you're in the "bargaining" stage of grief.
2rio2 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:37:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I mean we literally know thereโs a third film coming out that could easily recon her backstory ala Luke and Leia in ROTJ
welsh_hero_beans ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:15:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The hell is ROTH?
GastroAcid ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 15:23:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Return of the Hoth!
KevlarGorilla ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:04:52 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm going to make my own Hoth! With Blackjack, and salt!
Mojo96LoL ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:44:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Return of the Hulk - was a working title for Thor Ragnarok
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:37:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Retcons out the hazoo
Lord_Locke ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:43:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Leave Game of Thrones out of this!
The7ruth ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:27:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What's ROTH? Did you mean ROTJ?
drivendreamer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:16:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The truth is slowly coming out.
However, I also want to believe there will be a big final twist in IX to hopefully account for the shortcomings
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:35:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm going to wait to see the movie before I agree that these leaks are "shortcomings."
SoulCruizer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:01:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I donโt believe he was lying in this film but if JJ wants he could decide to change that. A lot of the story is written as it goes so if JJ comes up with an interesting idea I wouldnโt be surprised if it happened.
confusedbookperson ยท 106 points ยท Posted at 12:31:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If anything I'm surprised Snoke went out like a little bitch, we were all expecting him to be this huge threat that pulls the strings but he turned out to be a damp squib plot device. Or maybe he's just fooling and that was a force hologram or clone or something, I just don't think a character with this amount of buildup and mystery can go out without answering the important questions.
Obiwontaun ยท 40 points ยท Posted at 15:41:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was kind of hoping he would end up being this short little guy that just made his holograms huge to compensate.
[deleted] ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 16:51:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Pay no attention to the Sith behind the curtain!
moderate-painting ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:31:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My precious First Order!
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:44:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean he practically -was- that :P
zatpath ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:05:18 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's exactly what I thought, like an evil Yoda. Haha!
RubberDong ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:43:05 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
only george lucas has a hard on for midgets
Obiwontaun ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:56:58 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Do you not?
WHYWOULDYOUEVENARGUE ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 16:31:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I liked it. I can live with not knowing who Snoke really is and how he came to be the leader. We'll probably know the answers to these questions in some other movie, just like with Rogue One.
Now we're left with a megalomaniacal Kylo Ren who struggles with his own emotions. We have not had a villain like that before. I have no idea what will happen of him, but he is far more interesting than the one-dimensional villain that was Snoke.
confusedbookperson ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 18:02:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's why I thought the change in pace was brilliant; basically every movie in the last 30 years kills off the villain in the last 15 minutes but here Snoke is being offed on the halfway mark leaving Kylo to fill his shoes as the leader with varying levels of success. It shook up everyone in the theatre when I saw it, made it even better that I didn't know any spoilers at all, total shock and awe stuff.
euphratestiger ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:24:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I liked it too. Kylo's recurring theme (and even Rey's) was to let go of the past and look to the future. Time to step up and be what you want. KR did that and so did Rey.
Waoeden ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 17:20:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No he is not. Kylo , besides being a weakling, seems he come out directly from a linkin park video.
His temper tantrums are HILARIOUS.
most non threatening villain ever.
Red5point1 ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 23:16:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
his temper tantrums were made to fool Snoke into thinking he was weak and vulnerable.
Meanwhile Kylo was in full control and could hide his real intentions from Snoke.
Waoeden ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:35:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes sure. His temper tantrums, when snoke was not even close of him or paying attention, had a reason.............
Kylo has temper tantrums because he is edgy.And it doesnt help that Adam driver, despite being a decent actor, looks like he is about to cry any moment from now.
Red5point1 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 00:24:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When Snoke was nowhere near him were the times that count the most.
Didn't you hear Snoke brag about how he can see Kylo's mind and "knows" everything about him, and every intention... Snoke was consumed with his over confidence that he was in control, that he was the most powerful. He was blind to reality.
Kylo knew all along, he was playing Snoke.
miter01 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:01:30 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not even close to him? Snoke force slammed Hux from god knows how far away, at least star systems.
Not paying attention? How would you know if the hyper powerful mind reader is paying attention to you or not?
Waoeden ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:45:56 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because the movie didnt imply he was.
I cannot make up something up that the movie is not showing me clearly or implicitly. And the movie NEVER implies OR shows that Snoke is omnipresent.
So no, you fellas are making up that Kylo has temper tantrums because he was ''playing Snoke up'' . Nope. Kylo has temper tantrums because he is edgy. Even his lines are edgy. Sometimes his lines appears to come DIRECTLY from linkin park songs.
In the next movie Kylo will have ANOTHER temper tantrum. And Snoke is, well, dead.
martin0641 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:19:37 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, he smashed the elevator with his darkwing duck helmet, that even snoke told him was annoying and retarded - and in the last movie he took out a control panel with his light saber.
I blame Han and Leia for not offing him for torturing animals as a kid, because you know that beta kid was into that.
He's there least threatening bad guy ever because he's emotionally unstable, the exact opposite of Hannibal Lecter.
It's not that I think he's not dangerous, he's just not menacing. You might not want to be around him because he might kill you for exactly no reason, but people would avoid Snoke because he's peering into your soul and flaying your mind purposefully and methodically.
One is terrifying, the other is pathetically annoying but still dangerous. If I got killed by Kylo Ren I'd be more disappointed that I got offed by that emo loser than anything else.
MatsThyWit ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:31:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What mystery? Can someone please point out a mystery being perpetrated by Disney because I have yet to find one. The only mystery seems to have been entirely conjured by fans and fans alone.
CaptainFourEyes ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 20:00:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How he was able to build the First Order. How he was able to corrupt Ben under Luke's nose. Where he came from when there were no Dark Side Force users anymore. How he became so horrifically scarred. Is he a Sith or just force sensitive?
These are questions that I had which were never resolved. Stuff like how he got hurt don't need to be answered immediately I mean Palpatine didn't.
confusedbookperson ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:18:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The mystery behind the whole 'who the hell is this guy' stuff around Snoke, because unlike previous Sith lords we don't know where he came from or what he is, questions so far left hanging by the movies and alluded to in the canon novels. We know that Palpatine may have sensed Snoke's rise and that's it so far.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 22:38:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
confusedbookperson ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 23:15:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's from one of the canon novels, Aftermath: Empire's End, in it is a passage detailing Palpatine's search of the unknown regions for a dark side signal that calls to him. Quotation is as follows ' the emperor was convinced that something waited for him out there- some origin of the force, some dark presence formed of malevolent substance. He said that he could feel the waves of it radiating out now that the way was clear. The emperor called it a signal - conveniently one that only he could hear. Even his greatest enforcer, Vader, seemed oblivious to it, and Vader also claimed mastery over the dark force, did he not?'
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:18:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'd taken it to mean that those "important" questions weren't that important. One of the main themes was of letting go of the past and moving on. The questions about Rey's parents and Snoke were treated as an irrelevancy because they ultimately are. What matters is what they made the next generation into and where that new generation will go in the aftermath.
I was thinking that this might also explain why this movie was basically a mash-up and remix of both ESB and ROTJ. Disney now have no more original films to use as story templates, so Episode IX is where they could be free take things in an entirely new direction.
That, or it'll open with a fucking trade embargo. We'll see.
Bennyboy11111 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:56:46 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
i liked how it was different to the emperor, vader asked padme and luke to help overthrow the emperor but kylo managed himself with incredible deception. Really did restore some of his power. Snoke was berating and humiliating him that much it was either gonna spur him onto a murderous rampage against the resistance or snoke himself
Dragshisballsz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:05:08 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
people keep overthinking this trilogy and trying to find underlying themes or huge mysteries that might happen or they mightve missed. the truth is that there arent any, and what you see is what you get. the new trilogy is just that disappointing.
confusedbookperson ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 00:23:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Don't be hasty; I'm sure JJ Abrams has some surprises up his sleeve for episode 9 that'll shock us all.
RubberDong ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:42:41 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
let me remind you..
Dath Mawl!
alfiejs ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 13:56:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Squid. Itโs damp squid.
unauthorizedexcess29 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:11:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
IT crowd reference?
alfiejs ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:35:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Correct.
MrPold ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:02:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It isn't, it's squib. Like a fuse. Check it out.
ronan_the_accuser ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:35:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought it was squib like in Harry potter.
Magical people who can't actually perform magic.
The parallel being he's force sensitive, but doesn't wield a light sabre r any of that fancy stuff.
TriplePlusBad ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:02:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm actually kind of curious as to how you see that making sense. Wouldn't a damp squid be more powerful than a dry squid?
Maridiem ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:06:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
https://youtu.be/XnXKVY-_i2c?t=1m4s
alfiejs ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:44:16 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I shall put you on a pedalstool
Cheekygui ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 23:18:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
From what ive heard from hardcore star wars fans isnt snoke meant to be capable of cheating death? Im not super into anything outside of the movies so im not certain.
MasterEmp ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:05:30 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's Darth Plagueis, Palpatine's ex-master
Cheekygui ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:18:17 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ah ok nevermind then sorry for the confusion! Were there maybe theories floating ariund that snoke was plagueis?
MasterEmp ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:15:38 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think there was some, yeah
Frankocean2 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:09:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well, since Snoke was manipulating both of them, it's a possibility.
JustHereForTheMemes ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 12:24:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Was he manipulating them or just puffing himself up? If the link between Kylo and Rey remained after his death, he could have been lying about being the cause.
Snoke in this movie reminded me of Kylo in the last, desperate for others to see him as an all powerful sith lord, didn't have the ability to back it up.
LemLuthor ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 12:51:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Kylo and Ren? haha
JustHereForTheMemes ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:08:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Heh, it was late when the movie got out
schmeily2 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 12:51:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, he claims to have manipulated them and be the reason they can connect..... yet after he dies, they still manage to talk to each other. Kylo is definitely lying.
CreepyMosquitoEater ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:30:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Basically they did it in a way that they can still choose to so something with the Reys parents story, or they can choose to leave it where it is which is already a very good turnout that fit very well for that heart to heart scene with Rey and Kylo
Dragshisballsz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:03:39 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
youre in the same camp that the people who didnt believe vader back in 1980 were in.
RubberDong ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:42:09 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
how did he play him like a fool?
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 12:27:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I dunno, he seems open and honest with Rey. We haven't seem him lie or anything like that, he seems to wear his heart and emotions in plain sight.
SkidMcmarxxxx ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:10:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
no
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:47:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Perhaps but that would undermine the message. The scene at the end was clearly creating parallel with Rey's upbringing.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:30:00 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Especially if revealing the truth would not serve Kylo at the time
eoinster ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:14:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe, but keep in mind people said the same thing about Vader after Empire, more people thought he was lying than telling the truth.
It's definitely possible, but I don't think they'd pull that bait-and-switch.
TareXmd ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:49:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I sure hope he was lying to make her join him and "be something instead of a nothing"... Otherwise it's ridiculously lazy writing.
Loenho ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 11:42:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm still holding onto hope that Rey is a Kenobi
The_h0bb1t ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 12:13:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that wouldn't fit with the timeline at all?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:20:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yep and 'granddaughter' of Obi-Wan Kenobi is a little disappointing tbh.
SuperSceptile2821 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:04:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She could be a granddaughter and it would fit.
The_h0bb1t ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:22:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I guess there is still a chance, but I have narrative issues with it:
if it turned out to be true, it would have no effect on the narrative that has been set with the release of The Last Jedi and even contradict the theme, not to mention Empire.
it would be really out of character for Obi-Wan to break the code. I know they flirted with the idea in the Clone Wars show but he chose an honorable path.
TheLast_Centurion ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:03:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hello there, Kylo.
Frankocean2 ยท 493 points ยท Posted at 10:56:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I loved that. Might as well called it "Star Wars: y'all fan boy theories can suck it"
Spawn3323 ยท 148 points ยท Posted at 13:50:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But they fixed one thing. Chewie and Leia hugged.
theBelatedLobster ยท 61 points ยท Posted at 17:00:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And the whole "they just rehashed the plot of an old one" was met with a "let the past die" theme.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:44:06 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ironic, because they just rehashed the plot of an old one...
SckidMarcker ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:10:12 on December 20, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They didn't...
tropster ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:54:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They hugged in Force Awakens, just not when it counted the most.
infestedjoker ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:39:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
yea and her and rey hugging in TFA were actually not meant to be that way didn't JJ said it was suppose to be chewie instead?
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 21:30:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nah he admitted afterwards that he fucked up and should have made her hug Chewie instead of Rey. Something he only noticed was lacking after fans pointed it out sadly
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:17:23 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And Rey finally met Poe
Kolingreens ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:25:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Also what Luke was eating on the island.
LDKCP ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 19:55:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
He literally caught a fish on screen.
Kolingreens ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 05:48:58 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I guess I read it wrong. I was referring to something they fixed. After TFA everyone was asking what Luke was eating on the island, in TLJ it showed the fish he caught, plus the big one you see him kill and carry.
Schaafwond ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 23:08:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Actually, he didn't catch it on screen.
chubbyurma ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 03:11:50 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah he did though. With that giant pole. He lifted it up and stabbed it into the water.
Schaafwond ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 08:21:24 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
We didn't see him actually stab the fish. You see him move the pole, and then it cuts to him carrying the fish. He didn't actually catch it on screen.
chubbyurma ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 08:33:31 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He picks it up and stabs it downward though. I'm pretty sure we can regard that as a heavy, heavy implication that that's when he caught the fish
Schaafwond ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 08:47:55 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes. But my point was the he didn't catch it on screen, which is a verifiable fact. But for some reason people get annoyed by that.
DavidOrWalter ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 17:45:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Milk from that gross things boobs. Probably the little pawgs or whatever they were too.
samba90 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:49:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Walrus pig cows
rubiks_n00b ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:51:19 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
We hope it was milk and they were nipples. Alien anatomy being what it is and all...
AsgrimWybjorn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:43:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Alien Breast Milk!
ThatBrownDude ยท 120 points ยท Posted at 11:09:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Haha that's what I thought as well. Like the writers read all the theories and were like "lol nope, scrap anything we had planned" Or one theory ended up being the one they originally planned and they were like "nah screw that, now y'all get nothing!"
Linubidix ยท 57 points ยท Posted at 14:18:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Vince McMahon method. Cut off your nose to spite your face.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:45:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is actually being well received. Which it wouldn't be under a Vince McMahon method.
LexLuthorsHairPiece ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:50:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Depends on whether Roman Reigns is involved or not...
Chumunga64 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:41:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Roman Reigns beats Kylo and Rey in a handicap match.
JayAreEss ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:27:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Gotta make him look STRONG!
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:58:10 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Roman would've shrugged off the ignited lightsaber to the face no bother. Then smirked at the camera.
dtlv5813 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:52:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
At least we now know that snoke is not Yoda. Or is he???
TheLast_Centurion ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:56:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well. And that was the problem as well because story didnt go its own way but it was based on fans and so it was nothing, really. Story wanted to go one way and writers, cause of fans, pushed it the other way.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:36:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But were any of those fan theories actually good? Or would it have been narratively pointless and confusing adding in some random BS about snoke being Darth plagius (a name casual fans don't even know) or some shit about Rey being a Kenobi.
99.9% of the fan theories made might be fine lore wise but wouldn't work in an actual movie. Things like fan theories for the winds of winter are far easier to get accurate as George foreshadows so much and writes in such a broad heavy style. Predicting minor, pointless, lore-friendly backstory (not even plot points) by a writer we've never seen write a SW movie before? Good luck
Proteinous ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:10:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ah, the GRRM method to handling fan theories.
bigolemoose ยท 158 points ยท Posted at 14:17:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Me too, there's an entire frickin galaxy, not every hero needs to be a Solo/Skywalker. The fanboys are pissed but I think it's a good direction.
f1mxli ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 17:57:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think the thing there was that ep.7 made a huge deal about keeping Rey's heritage a secret. We'll get over it some day.
Alicrilly ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 21:19:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well it's not so much from the movie but the classic JJ everything's a bigger mystery Abrams
Ianchez ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:48:05 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He like to write that way to keep open options in the future cause you never know what you might need. I kinda get it, and kinda like it. I hate movies when everything fits so perfectly, it makes them look fake.
MartelFirst ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:47:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't feel Episode 7 made much of a deal about it at all. There's just a flashback of her being abandoned, granted, but other than that, the hype came from the fans. If it weren't a Star Wars film, everyone would have just considered her parents were inconsequential, which funnily enough turns out was the case... Admittedly though, the speculation was fueled by how the creators would try to avoid this question.
There's no doubt, however, that ep. 8 made a big deal about this mystery before the reveal. I was almost scared they wouldn't go through with it in this episode!
Sempere ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 19:05:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Except that's not true - they went out of their way to stress the mystery of Rey. If they gave her an actual last name, it would have been more of a cushion.
At the same time, Kylo Ren was trying to manipulate her into joining him. Devaluing her and saying she's no one to anyone but him...that's classic manipulation right there. We might be expected to take her being no one at face value, and it might be true within the context of The Last Jedi - but with JJ Abrams back for the finale, I'm willing to bet that'll be retcon'd
Ollietron3000 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 00:38:31 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I've been wondering this with rey and snoke as well. Now that JJ is helming episode 9 as well do you think he may try to finish what he's started (excuse the reference) regarding these character's mysteries?
For the record I'm on board with Rey being a nobody
ScruffTheJanitor ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:50:57 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Part of her story and drive is not knowing who her parents are and hoping they would come back for it. Thats the reason, not because her parents ended up being someone.
Sempere ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:50:15 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nah, she was just an incredibly inconsistently written character in the first film. They absolutely wanted the mystery of who she was to be central, they even spend 30-40 minutes of the film basically calling attention to the mystery of it. Everyone asking the same question - it is a manipulation of audience expectation. Johnson threw it out the window, but JJ could very well retcon it in the next film.
thevorminatheria ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 20:47:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If they wanted to bash fan theories they should at least come up with a backstory in place of those theories. Every good character has a good backstory. If Rey is the modern Disney princess for fuck's sake give her a backstory. It's OK if she doesn't have an heritage but give me some fucking backstory.
Alicrilly ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 21:21:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
We have her backstory , she grew up as a salvager on jakku.
FricklyPrickly ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:30:50 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That along with the ending of the force sensitive kid gave me the goosebumps it was rather beautiful.
Ackerman_OP ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:44:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Im not annoyed that shes not family of existing characters. Im annoyed that it was presented as an important mystery. I really wish she was no one right from the beginning.
Dragshisballsz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:56:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
i thought she was a nobody once i saw the movie but i thought she would be connected in some way to at least one of the main characters. its pretty dumb how she has anakins saber calling to her, visions of the skywalker family and their history, and each of the ot characters seem to either recognize her in some way or we are lead to believe that there is some mystery surrounding her that connects her to the main plot. but there just, isnt. she is just there because thats what the writers decided and it feels forced, she doesnt have any real connection the these characters other than what is presented in the movies and it makes it feel cheap. im sure it wouldnt have been hard or even have changed much to just have a throwaway line or small scene between her and luke or kylo that says something like "you were a young student at lukes temple but after what kylo did you were hidden away so he couldnt find you and hurt you" or something like that. it would have given rey and luke past history that could serve as a way to bond them and let audiences understand why she is so important. but they just chose not to and say "youre just some random who is really important and super strong for no reason". you cant expect people to be happy about that when its been previously shown that people are always connected in some way and getting abilities like the ones she has take considerable training and skills (unless youre the literal jesus of your universe and even then you can be undone by your own hubris and emotions).
Dragshisballsz ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:56:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
i thought she was a nobody once i saw the movie but i thought she would be connected in some way to at least one of the main characters. its pretty dumb how she has anakins saber calling to her, visions of the skywalker family and their history, and each of the ot characters seem to either recognize her in some way or we are lead to believe that there is some mystery surrounding her that connects her to the main plot. but there just, isnt. she is just there because thats what the writers decided and it feels forced, she doesnt have any real connection the these characters other than what is presented in the movies and it makes it feel cheap. im sure it wouldnt have been hard or even have changed much to just have a throwaway line or small scene between her and luke or kylo that says something like "you were a young student at lukes temple but after what kylo did you were hidden away so he couldnt find you and hurt you" or something like that. it would have given rey and luke past history that could serve as a way to bond them and let audiences understand why she is so important. but they just chose not to and say "youre just some random who is really important and super strong for no reason". you cant expect people to be happy about that when its been previously shown that people are always connected in some way and getting abilities like the ones she has take considerable training and skills (unless youre the literal jesus of your universe and even then you can be undone by your own hubris and emotions).
UsualSaryaMain ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 17:28:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What I actually think about this is that somehow she must be the granddaughter of Obi-one :0
dieyoubastards ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:31:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"Every word of what you just said is wrong"
[deleted] ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 11:39:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It confirmed to me that Star Wars isn't made for nerds anymore, Rogue One may have been the exception
Frankocean2 ยท 72 points ยท Posted at 11:46:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I dont think it never intended to be.
[deleted] ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 12:25:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I mean in the grand scheme of things A New Hope was just the 70's version of a fun nostalgia movie.
Edit: Nostalgia for old serial sci-fi stuff like Flash Gordon, of course.
Jeffy29 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:07:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away....", Haha that's brilliant.
dtlv5813 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:52:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Star Trek is for nerds. Sw never was. Maybe geeks.
Andromedanus ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 13:21:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The EU was made for nerds. I'm glad they scrapped that.
TheGreatBatsby ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:44:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Have you seen what they replaced it with?
[deleted] ยท 49 points ยท Posted at 12:13:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I kept telling people that whenever they posed their complex fan theories.
But nobody would listen.
Star Wars isn't made for hardcore Star Wars fans.
It's made for everyone. And children especially.
TheWorldIsAhead ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 13:49:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I am a hardcore fan and I LOVED that they burned all the fanfiction writers. I am a movie fan and I want something a bunch of nerds on the internet couldn't come up with. A story. Not a backstory with a bunch of great material for wookiepedia editors.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:48:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not contributing anything by replying to this, but I'm also a big Star wars fan and I fucking love this comment, so accurate.
DavidOrWalter ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:47:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This doesn't make a lot of sense. You can explain a character in the film and give a background and motivation just fine. Movies have managed to do it forever. You can do that and still ignore any fan fic garbage. Randomly cutting out characters half way through the trilogy without any real understanding of who they were (while clearly hinting they mattered) isn't making a 'story'.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:27:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A bunch of nerds on the internet could have come up with something way better than that steaming sack of shit
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:47:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Excellent point.
JDFreeman ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:30:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah this. The thing I loved about Star Wars as a kid was that it was clearly awesome for kids and adults without ever being patronizing. That very last scene in the film with the kid holding up a broom like a lightsabre was the most patronizing thing i've ever seen in Star Wars film. Worse than midicloreans, spaceleia, Jaja, Ewoks Caravan of courage...it was patronizing cheese toss.
TheWorldIsAhead ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:08:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know how you got this from my post, and I disagree completely with what you said.
JDFreeman ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 15:12:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
haha oh well. I was agreeing with you that it was good they burned the fan fic and that i want a story, not a backstory. I guess where we split is that I dont think Last Jedi gave us that. It gave us a rehash of Empire Strikes back with a bizare middle half set on a Casino city that belongs in Harry Potter...
EnlighteningSnapper ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:22:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Didnt he grab the broom using the force?
Asiriya ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 18:39:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There was barely a story in it. Fuck me.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 20:03:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I haven't even seen the movie yet, but I knew this would happen. Attention ladies and gents: This is what happens when you let Pickle Nose (JJ Abrams) anywhere near your franchise. Look at what he did with Star Trek. Could you expect anything less? He's not a visionary. He's a hack who takes everything we love about our past and rehashes it into an abomination on the vague logic of 'Well the franchise is broken. So we have to reboot it to get the original feel back.' It's why Leai's force sensitivity was never brought up, yet it was such a crucial angle in Return of the Jedi. It was why instead of involving the Republic, which by the original movies, was turned into a Rebellion, we got the Resistance. It's like 'Hey dudes. Wasn't the Republic re-established by now? And if it wasn't, what has taken it's place? What happened to the old Empire? Did it die off? Did the First Order take it's place?'
Asiriya ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:40:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You're not getting any answers :)
It was salvageable though.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:50:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I wouldn't have a problem with Rey coming from a lineage that isn't Skywalker in someway. But they went out of their way to show a flashback of her being abandoned. Why put that in their if there is no defining lineage to the force? Why wouldn't Rey just mention to say Finn as an example, that she doesn't remember her parents and leave it as that?
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:52:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because being abandoned had a huge impact on how she feels and what has driven her throughout the past two films. I don't even like TFA that much and I thought TLJ was far too long (should have cut Finn entirely, I don't care that I liked him in the first film, he had nothing to do) but Rey's parents don't need to be special space wizards to be an important motivation for her character (she doesn't want to abandon Ben, "he's not alone").
aulum ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:24:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Aren't the books and comics for nerds? It's how it's Always been right? Time to read some Legends!
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:45:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I love how these people have seen star wars movies before, yet they still believe that a character will get "revealed" (in star trek into darkness style) as Darth plagius: someone general audiences don't know exists and would be so goddamn convoluted to set up (let alone people thinking Rey was a Kenobi or a palpatine, what does that even add to the story?).
Darth plagius also works better narratively if he doesn't exist, it's way better if palpatine made up a sith legend about the dark side of the force being able to do exactly what anakin is looking for at this exact moment (rather than someone who did the same thing actually being his master). Too many star wars fans don't understand what makes star wars actually work: simple, mainstream movies that establish a universe in which talented writers can expand on the lore in a less mainstream medium (Chris avellone is still my favourite star wars writer)
samspopguy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:38:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
this reminds me of my theories for ep2 and 3 and you know what turned out to be true the most simple concept turned out to be true
DoctorWhoSeason24 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 12:43:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It never was. The EU yes, but not the main movies.
Gverreiro ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:15:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Can you recommend some good books? Is there anything Revan and that nihilism dude (wound in the force or whatever) other than games?
FluffyKyubey ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:59:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The darth bane trilogy is really good, it's about Bane making the rule of 2
Gverreiro ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:01:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah already read it. One of my favourite eu books.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:46:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you thought that any Star Wars film is made for nerds you need to do some community work to realign your brain with reality.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:56:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Have you seen Revenge of the Sith?
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:06:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A movie with a high budget released in the summer with the aim of appealing to a four quadrant audience meant to recoup that budget and hopefully make a profit? Not for nerds.
DavidOrWalter ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:48:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Have you seen the box office numbers? The movies are made to make money and you don't do that by appealing to a small segment.
Dallywack3r ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:38:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Star Wars isnโt made for nerds anymore? What??
DontTrustRedditors ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:15:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It confirmed to me that TFA will
This sub will wank the movie for a few months, particularly now that studio shills are out in full force. Then, three months from now, it will pretend that it always saw the obvious flaws in this movie, and it never thought it was great.
See also: The Force Awakens, Jurassic World.
MetaCognitio ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:06:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I just don't get why they bothered making such a big deal of it then. The big build up all for nothing. It was like the end of LOST.
Lordpennywise ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:24:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Mickey Mouse is waving his dick in all our faces.
Minscota ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:43:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"Star wars Suck" Fixed that for you. This movie was awful.
JoelTLoUisBadass ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:17:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah good on you Disney for fooling your fanbase. "You bought our comics and novels that just keep teasing things to do with the new characters? Well fuck you. You gotta keep buying our shit if you wanna know more."
Are you really praising a multi billionaire company for slapping their costumers in the face?
AHMilling ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:47:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I fucking loved it! I'm a huge star wars fan, but i didn't really care for the snoke theories, so to see the writers and the story group thinking the same, so great.
leo-g ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 12:02:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
JJ > So I was thinking... you could make Rey parents be... Rian > Say no more fam. JJ (after watching the first cut) > can you not?
PointOfFingers ยท 292 points ยท Posted at 11:43:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I liked how they handled it, they corrected a couple of the problems of Force Awakens. As a CGI villain Snoke was not convincing and I am glad he went in this movie. Rey being a rehash of Luke Skywalker was also fixed and she is just another of an emerging generation of Jedi. They also fixed Yoda and he was no longer a CGI action hero of the prequels but was back to being a playful muppet.
bedbugsex ยท 266 points ยท Posted at 12:27:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Where the fuck did he come from and why was he basically a slightly uglier Sidious? Zero story payoff
[deleted] ยท 229 points ยท Posted at 12:59:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Same place Darth Maul, Boba Fett, Grevious, Duku and the Emperor in the original series came from. Starwars movies have always introduced bad guys without backstories.
Given the EU creates elaborate backstories for every redshirt number #5 in the movies I'm sure we'll hear eventually.
bedbugsex ยท 117 points ยท Posted at 13:27:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
None of the first 4 were this powerful (in fact was boba ever a threat). You're right about the Emperor, but there's a difference in being the first main big bad- he dies and then someone exactly like him takes his place?
The most logical explanation is he survived the fall the his head split open. I would have been ... okay with that I guess if it was done well.
jaegeruk ยท 79 points ยท Posted at 15:26:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Edit: Seems I've replied to the wrong comment, but I 'll leave this be anyways.
Maul, Boba, Grevious and Dooku weren't portrayed to be the main villain though.
Snoke has been afforded ample amounts of screen time compared to the Emperor which seems to be the issue. For someone so apparently so important and powerful like Snoke who's seemingly picked up the pieces of the Empire to create the First Order, turn and mould Kylo and then get killed off in such a way without knowing anything about such an influential character doesn't sit right with many.
With the Emperor he was a mystery throughout 4, 5 and 6 with not much known about him. Then vastly expanded upon his character in the prequels, which Disney aren't able to do any longer with Snoke, bar spin off films and books which would feel somewhat underwhelming for such an integral character. We want to know what happened in the 30 years between the original trilogy and the new trilogy.
They've added things into the universe, pretty much saying "right here you go these are the Knights of Ren and Supreme leader Snoke in VII" then just leave it at that with no explanation and to completely gloss over them.
bedbugsex ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 15:31:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. If they wanted to reboot it so badly just do an honest to goodness reboot or "spiritual successor". How on earth did the first order even get so powerful after a resounding defeat? The republic need to look at that was the root of the problem otherwise another victory means exactly nothing.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:36:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What resounding defeat? They lost a weapon, but before that managed to kill off the entirety of the New Republic. It was less than months after that that TLJ started, so instead of a forceful stalemate, it was now all out war.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:23:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:34:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They lost the emperor and Jakku THIRTY YEARS AGO.
mdevoid ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:27:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I read the original comment as in terms of how did the first order come back from the ashes of the empire. Not from the defeat of the starbase.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:29:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And in that case, they had thirty years to do so. Even the old EU made a point that just because the Emperor died, doesn't mean that the Empire died with him.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:05:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And gave zero explanation why this supposed new Republic never had the foresight or common sense to detect this First Order.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:13:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I see you didn't watch TFA at all then, did you? Because they make it abundantly clear that the new Republic is well aware of the First Order, and in the midst of a cold war with them.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:23:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I did. Apparently they had no way to detect the Starkiller base, and zero Bothan spies to infiltrate it as well. How convenient.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:31:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Clearly you didn't, cause then you would have noticed how the film states that the Republic, despite dissenters, doesn't view the First Order as a problem in the scope that Leia saw them.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:03:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And from what I've heard, the Republic still isn't doing jack shit about this First Order in this movie as well. Wonder how JJ is going to write himself out this mess during the next movie.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:48:56 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You mean the republic that was wiped out in TFA? How dense are you?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:12:02 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Do you realize how many planets are in with both new and old Republic? Corusant lived. Many other planets lived. You need to develop your overall scope.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:26:47 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not here, this is straight from what the films establish - the new republic is gone. It's in the film, it's canon, and you're just gonna have to live with it.
Jay-Em ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:52:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It didn't feel like all out war though. The crawl states 'The First Order reigns', as though they've subdued the galaxy somehow.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:45:26 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They blew up the home world of the republic (so their leaders all died) and the republic fleet which guarded it in TFA.
drivendreamer ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:15:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And the did the same thing with Rey. Here is a powerful girl who is apparently completely random, give her force powers and people will accept her as a hero.
RavenK92 ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 21:48:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wasn't that Luke's entire point? The Jedi do not own the Force, neither do the Skywalkers. It exists in and between all things. Anyone and everyone can wield it if they would but learn. And as Kylo Ren was born with such a raw power and connection to the Force, it gave her her potential because the Force always seeks balance
SoulCruizer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:57:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs not important to this story, thatโs the point. He will have a fleshed our backstory in books and other media but in this movie they chose to not focus on that. I can understand if thatโs disappointing for you but that doesnโt mean anything negative about the film. I could care less about snokes back story being in a movie.
bedbugsex ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:02:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It creates plot holes though. Where was he when Palpatine was ruling? How did he gain control of the empire and why was he ignored the whole time? Luke seemed aware of him as far back as when he was training Kylo.
-Badger2- ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 15:52:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's not what a plot hole is. Those are just questions that haven't been answered yet.
MatsThyWit ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 17:44:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
People literally have no idea what a plot hole actually is.
bedbugsex ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:03:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Aren't plot holes unanswered questions that aren't answered or can't be answered? Until they're answered they also seem like glaring contradictions.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 22:04:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's only a plot hole where something doesn't make sense, snoke could be anything, he could be sidious' former master, he could be a reincarnated ancient sith, he could have hid in the outer rim till sidious' defeat and then took over his empire through showing his sheer power to whatever remained. Snoke can be explained away by anything, it isn't a plot hole, we just didn't need to know his backstory for this movie (it wouldn't have felt organic if they'd told it to us, would have just been pointless exposition).
Honestly I didn't even like TFA and TLJ was fine, but both of them have significantly bigger problems than "not showing snoke's backstory" or "Rey not being a fucking Kenobi" (for instance what the hell was Finn even doing in this movie? Character should have been cut as he had nothing to do, and he was one of my highpoints in TFA).
SoulCruizer ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 15:27:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No it doesnโt. Like I said his story will be fully explained just not in a film probably. Thereโs extensive information on pretty much every Star Wars character ever created. Itโs just most likely gonna be in a book. Or JJ will explain it in the next one. But we will find out everything about Snoke at some point.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:35:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lol they fucked all the eu shit built after TFA off in this movie, and people were saying "hurr wait until the next movie for your explanations" after TFA. If you have to wait 4 years to get answers to any of the big questions the first movie teased you with, then that's shit writing, and a honeydicking fest for the viewers. Disney don't care about the comics or books, they care about making a Disney movie that'll reach a bigger demographic than the nerds that are into that shit. It's not a black or white issue either, palpating wasn't killed in the second movie, with almost zero explanation for his motives other than lol imma karrupt ya. Plus the multiple interviews where they teased reys heritage.
SoulCruizer ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:40:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Look I get what youโre saying but I disagree with all of it. Iโm a super fanboy and I think the last Jedi is a great movie, Disney has been doing a great job so far and completely trust their vision. Iโm sorry if you donโt.
mchugho ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:28:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Keep telling yourself that this is a good Star Wars film if it makes you feel better. Can't see how huge fans would be anything but disappointed.
bedbugsex ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:46:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You seem very easy to please. Good for you I guess (and Disney). That's fine if you enjoy it, but your arguments don't really dispute any of our points.
SoulCruizer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:53:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
See I was trying to be respectful but I guess you wonโt. Like it or not Star Wars is Disneyโs and this is their direction. I love it you hate it either way itโs both opinions about the state of Star Wars that arenโt fact. If you want to believe somehow I have less brain cells cause I like it, thatโs on you. Enjoy being an angry fanboy up on that hill who thinks he knows better, cause itโs lonely up their.
bedbugsex ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:01:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Calm down. I really don't care about the franchise as a whole. I just think this is a objectively pretty bad movie and I guess a bit miffed I wasted money on it.
-Badger2- ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:49:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I love how you were being a total asshole and when they called you out on it, you got all defensive telling them to "calm down."
bedbugsex ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:54:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
huh. saying someone is easy to please is being an "asshole"? Maybe you need to calm down too?
DavidOrWalter ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:51:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Most people don't want to go and have to read a book on top of the 7 hour trilogy to understand a fairly important character. If you need a book to explain someone like Snoke then just don't put him in the movie.
SoulCruizer ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:45:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thatโs ridiculous, plenty of movies have characters that are just their to serve the plot and movie it forward and donโt have any backstories. Hell most movies do this! Just cause you want backstory for Snoke in this film does not make it necessary. Jesus if a book comes out then his whole backstory will be a quick read on a wiki, people who are really interested in Snoke will definitely do research and find out everything about him. It took me a few minutes to find out everything about phasma after her book has come out by simply googling it. If youโre a fan of Snoke I can understand that this may be disappointing but itโs the same as if I wished fin was a Jedi. Just because I wished and it didnโt happen my way doesnโt mean that they fucked up and are poor story tellers. No one ever said Snoke was anything that he wasnโt so even though hopes got high for some they didnโt lie or mislead.
DavidOrWalter ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:50:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Give me a comparable character. The emperor had more known about him in ANH and then, of course, had a whole prequel trilogy outlining his rise (which I know was not present at the time).
I don't want to hear about the guy who helps Indy get a horse. I don't need his back story because his role was to get Indy the horse.
Snoke's role was.... nothing. People wanted his role to be defined. Why not simply have Hux in that role?
If you can't do this in the film, don't put it in the film. I have no desire to pour through internet garbage about Phasma or Snoke. I don't want to read a comic or YA novel about star wars for their backstory. They are two characters that didn't amount to anything and one of them was, ostensibly, a pretty important character.
If it is written to be comedically funny, I can understand that. But I don't see anything supporting that reading of the film.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:30:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
General Grievous. Who was a terrible character admiteddly.
But I agree with /u/SoulCruizer, this isn't Snoke's story. We don't need to know his backstory. I'd like to know it, and I'm sure it will be covered in a gazillion books and toys and video games and cereal boxes, but it's ultimately secondary to the main story of Kylo/Rey.
SoulCruizer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:19:33 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you! I just got home from the theater and I have to say I fucking loved it, Every decision made! Iโm actually really surprised by the amount of hate this is getting. It was so good! And the way Snoke went out was perfect, really upped the stakes for Kylo. Bravo!
SoulCruizer ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:03:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Look I donโt see how I need to explain anymore cause I explained it perfectly before. Snokes place was to push the movie in a direction, if Wasnโt Snoke it would be someone else and weโd be in the same situation, if it was Hux then heโd be a different character and WEโD BE IN THE SAME SITUATION... Snokes history is fucking irrelevant to the story thatโs being told, you donโt like it, Disney doesnโt care cause itโs not catering to what you want, you donโt wanna google โwho is Snokeโ in a year or two to know, thatโs on you. You even mention the emperor who had no story at all in ANH. Other then he wants to take over the universe, that was it for 3 movies! And as for the prequels those came after so who knows we could get โSnoke A Star Wars storyโ in a couple years.
DavidOrWalter ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:27:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
And it would be just as poorly written but then I'm not wondering why there are two characters whose entire purpose was doing essentially the same thing that are largely nebulously undefined.
I don't want to read internet garbage from books written for young adults... you are right, that is on me. I do expect competent film making and the ability of a franchise to define it's own characters. If you want to read everything online then why even see the movies? Just read the synopsis and you will finish it faster than it takes to watch.
And yet he had more there than Snoke does here.
I'm sort of thinking you didn't see the movies or don't remember them. He already had the galaxy under his control. His was very much about turning Skywalker (and crushing the rebellion but that's an after thought in his mind). Then you learn that he wants him as his new apprentice and sets up a test where either Vader proves himself and stays his apprentice or Luke wins and becomes his apprentice.
I don't recall ever saying they did care? I think they care about making money and they are doing just fine at that. The prequels were pretty poorly written and made boat loads of cash.
Disney or a director making a choice doesn't mean that it's a 'good' choice. Unless you simply are of the belief (and it sounds like you are) that by default any choice they make is the right one. There are, shockingly, multiple ways to tell the same story. You can cut corners everywhere. You can reach the same ending but have people be impressed and find the journey fulfilling or it can be hacked together and not work well and reach the same end.
SoulCruizer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:40:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
DavidOrWalter ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:40:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was very poorly written.
It's almost like we can have two opinions but your is solely based on the idea that because Disney took one route it is the correct one by default. You have offered nothing but the reasoning of 'Disney chose it so it must be right'.
That's pretty sad that you can't think for yourself.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:58:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
DavidOrWalter ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:04:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I don't get it, you keep saying this. Didn't get my way? I wasn't in a writing room with anyone putting forth a point.
I'm not calling you a pouty little bitch or anything so I can't understand why you are saying that here. I am explaining why it was poorly written and all you are doing is falling into the thinking that Disney is always right and they decided this was the correct way to tell a story so you will hide behind it.
Did you write the script or something? You seem to be taking it so personally that people can see it's poorly written. I'm not insulting YOUR work (unless of course you wrote it) so why should you take it personally and 'care'?
Again you are getting way personal on this. You didn't write this thing so why are you getting so worked up? You haven't produced much at all defending why you DON'T think it was poorly written except to say Disney didn't think he played a role.
TinMachine ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:41:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think he had the Emperor's power, I got the impression he was like... someone sensitive to the force and adapt but not at the same power level, and without the same training.
MatsThyWit ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:48:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He's someone with limited power, high intelligence, the wealth to buy an army, and extreme arrogance. I don't understand the "he must be the most super amazing villain of all time because I just assumed that to be true without any evidence!" fanboy outrage on this one.
DavidOrWalter ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:53:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He must be someone the audience can understand. As is he's kind of a weird character built up to be something then hand waived away as if it was never important to the story in the first place.
Maybe? I mean I got none of that from watching the movies. Maybe that he was arrogant?
MatsThyWit ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:59:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lets see. He displays some power, though not much, is clad in fancy and extravagant clothing and seems to flaunt his high status decadence, is running the burgeoning first order, and arrogance is clearly his defining character trait... Seems like all of what i said can be found in the movie. It doesn't have to be explicitly stated with tedious exposition monologues.
DavidOrWalter ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:06:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, it couldn't. That's you placing your hopes/fan fic/explanations on it and not having anything directly contradicting it.
I've seen as many people say he displays a shit ton of power. Not that I agree with either but I think that's definitely you just placing your ideas on the film and having it sort of kind of maybe not contradict it.
Maybe? I guess by title you can think that? Who knows? C
I don't think that has ever correlated to wealth in the star wars universe. The emperor looked like a homeless guy but had all the resources in the galaxy.
Plus, people have said that the empires supporters had all the money to fund the NO.
Again, its you making up answers and the film not contradicting it.
I can make up nearly the opposite answers and have the film not contradict it as well.
TinMachine ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:33:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
yup, he's also outsmarted rather than beat face on!
Drama79 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:04:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did it matter to the story? Where did Ben Kenobi come from? One of the things I loved about this film was that it played with cine-literate expectations. Oh, JJ set up some mystery boxes? Cool - they're not the point, buh-bye Snoke. Movies aren't the place for complex lore.
bedbugsex ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 15:06:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think it does matter when it's a sequel. Where was he when Palpatine was ruling? Surely he'd be a threat (or a potential disciple I guess?) How did he gain control of the empire and why was he ignored the whole time? Luke seemed aware of him as far back as when he was training Kylo.
Drama79 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 15:17:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Given that there's a huge gap between XI and XII, that's a whole bunch of movies they can make exploring that area.
iigloo ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:32:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Which is why it is really nice that Kylo Ren is now the main antagonist, Adam Drivers portrayal of him is great and I am looking forward to more interactions between Kylo Ren and Rey.
Con0rr ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:39:20 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not having a backstory in the Original Trilogy (when there was no story besides the films), as well as not having a backstory in the prequels (there is a ton of time before Episode 1 unaccounted for) is fine because those are easily explained. For this trilogy, we are coming into a universe where supposedly, the evil was already defeated. Yet now we're supposed to just blindly assume that this guy could take control of the entire First Order?
T0yN0k ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:45:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Boba Fett was never a bad guy. He was a bounty hunter.
Dragshisballsz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:02:34 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
maul and greivous were just made to sell toys and were pretty much just in one movie each to have a cool lightsaber. the others all had backstory and purpose that had been established in the movie, boba fett was a dangerous bounty hunter that even the terrifying darth vader accepted back talk from and captured the heroes. count dooku was a jedi turned sith to try and destroy them from the inside as well as gain immense political power. darth sidious was the dictator of the galaxy who destroyed democracy and ruled through military might. snoke is set up to be the emperor 2.0 and it just goes nowhere. we get no explanation of who he is or why he is doing what he is doing. its the same problems throughout the disney era of star wars which is style over substance, there is no orginality, no real character development besides one or two at best and just repackaging the same stuff that has already been popular for decades but not doing it have as good.
jaegeruk ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:40:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Maul, Boba, Grevious and Dooku weren't portrayed to be the main villain though.
Snoke has been afforded ample amounts of screen time compared to the Emperor which seems to be the issue. For someone so apparently so important and powerful like Snoke who's seemingly picked up the pieces of the Empire to create the First Order, turn and mould Kylo and then get killed off in such a way without knowing anything about such an influential character doesn't sit right with many.
With the Emperor he was a mystery throughout 4, 5 and 6 with not much known about him. Then vastly expanded upon his character in the prequels, which Disney aren't able to do any longer with Snoke, bar spin off films and books which would feel somewhat underwhelming for such an integral character. We want to know what happened in the 30 years between the original trilogy and the new trilogy.
They've added things into the universe, pretty much saying "right here you go these are the Knights of Ren and Supreme leader Snoke in VII" then just leave it at that with no explanation and to completely gloss over them.
Jay-Em ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:47:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah this is the problem. The Emperor in the Original Trilogy was a mystery, but only because we knew very little about the rest of the Star Wars universe. Whereas Snoke seems contrary to what we already know about the galaxy; where has this new, powerful dark side user emerged from? It actually requires an explanation for the audience, because this isn't what you expect coming off the back of ROTJ.
lisward ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:31:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thatโs why he was killed off I think. Even if he had a backstory thereโs only so much you can do with the Sith vs Jedi story that hasnโt been done in the comics that hasnโt been rehashed over and over. Something something bad guy turns good again. But with the way this is going it isnโt a Sith vs Jedi thing anymore, with both Snoke and Luke dead I think the focus is going to be more on the war, and the expansion of the Star Wars universe, which is what id love to see.
DavidOrWalter ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:55:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's going to be Good vs Bad with Rey trying to turn Kylo. It will be the same thing just without the terms of sith and jedi used.
It won't focus on the war because people largely don't care about watching that. They want to see the powerful people interact.
drivendreamer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:13:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Good points. It is a fair comparison to note how the Emperor did not have a backstory until the novels got involved.
And we know the same thing will happen here...
piratemurray ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:22:26 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Extended Universe? Or European Union? Because both make sense in your comment.
f1mxli ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:01:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Good point, but Dooku had his backstory in episode II. Albeit just a conversation but it's something.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:54:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
DavidOrWalter ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:44:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think it was mostly that nothing in the story hinted he was any more than a mid grade sith who wanted to kill jedi. If you don't hint that there is more then the audience is usually cool with it.
f1mxli ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:03:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hey, I didn't say it was a good backstory :P
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:44:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Emperor was teased in dialogue in ANH, seen for the first time via hologram in ESB, then finally shown fully-realised as a nigh unbeatable villain in ROTJ that actually lived up to the expectation. Then the prequels basically followed his rise to power.
How can you compare that with Snoke with a straight face?
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:35:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did it need anything? He was a force user, as powerful as Luke by all accounts, and he managed to thrive while Luke cut himself from the Force. But his downfall was faster, because unlike Sidious, he didn't know how to control his pet Vader. It was a stunning reversal of expectations.
[deleted] ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 15:01:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
He was important for the character development of Kylo Ren , who is the real antagonist. That being said I would've liked to see more of Snoke's back story
LaxSagacity ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 01:13:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What annoys me is that they easily could have put in a line about Snoke. "Snoke warped Ben's mind, took him to the darkside."
"Who is Snoke and why is he so powerful?"
"Snoke was a confidant of the Emperor. A Sith who hid in the shadows. Wealth was his power, he financed the Empires most sinister projects and went on to create the First Order."
Something like that would take no time and instantly fill in a lot of blanks while really saying nothing much. Lucas was great at adding lines and info that hinted at backstories. These new films don't know how to do that.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 03:22:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It might be mentioned in the next movie, trilogy ain't over yet
dundasbro1 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 00:33:10 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh yeah that character development, where Kylo was a troubled and conflicted character who ended the film being pure simple evil with no real explanation.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:44:30 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The extreme version of 'I hate my parents'.
Mintfriction ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:12:35 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He didn't ended up being pure evil. He was angry and Rei for disappointing him and ofc at Luke since you know, he kinda fucked him up He was acting like one of his rage moments, the way he leaded the army felt the zame as him getting a tantrum in FA
BriskCracker ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:56:07 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Precisely, no character development.
Mintfriction ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 02:02:34 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes and no. It's very true that he is kinda the same, so here's where the Yes comes from. But, in itself no growth is a character development. Some people just aren't capable of developing and for me personally this tells a lot about Kylo that at the end of the FA wasn't clear.
aulum ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:26:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I dont see the problem. He's a plot point a Mcguffin, nothing else.
RobertElessar ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 13:16:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
because Abrams wanted an Emperor Palpatine type character and as usually with his mystery box bullshit, he'd fill in the blanks later or hand it to someone else.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:41:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think the biggest question is how did we only find out about him in TFA when he is clearly able to bankroll 'a diminished Empire' which blatantly has more resources than the Palpatine ever did.
Deepandabear ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 12:59:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Loved that they used a real puppet, very true to the originals!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:41:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When they used a puppet in TPM, people complained that he looked shit.
foca9 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:31:46 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That puppet looked shit compared to the originals, which actually is an impressive thing to do.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:53:05 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well, CG Yoda, looked brilliant in any case, so I'm glad hey changed it.
Reznor_PT ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:05:48 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wait she is still a rehash of Luke, in the end she is the legend as Luke is for the OG crew, that was the whole point.
She is the hope.
ender23 ยท 84 points ยท Posted at 12:25:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I know people hate that their theories didnโt work out and that thereโs nothing. But come on. If Rey was lineage, then being a Jedi is inherited and this movie worked hard to say itโs not. Not every orphan gets to find out their parents are heros or important. There wasnโt โno payoffโ, the expectations were a little too high. You can say Kk Abrams implies something in tfa, but this was always a possibility.
DontTrustRedditors ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 14:32:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The thing is, without 'the Jedi is inherited', it literally makes 0 sense why Rey is so damned good at everything instantly, with no training.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 15:04:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe some people are just more force sensitive without it having to be genetic
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 17:07:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:40:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Jediabetes
TheGreatBatsby ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 16:50:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's not even whether her parents are Jedi. She's just naturally good at everything and there's nothing mysterious in her past (rudimentary training etc) to explain it
elbenji ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:43:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So was luke?
cohrt ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:41:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
luke wasn't jedi mind tricking people in the first movie.
TheGreatBatsby ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:44:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Like what?
cohrt ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:41:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
luke wasn't jedi mind tricking people in the first movie.
TheGreatBatsby ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:45:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What do you mean?
elbenji ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:59:05 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A Skywalker by definition are Mary sues
TheGreatBatsby ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:52:41 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well, they aren't are they?
Anakin was a pod racer, but hadn't won a race. Then R2 did most of the work at the end of TPM.
How was Luke a Gary Stu?
elbenji ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:56:03 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's more the whole hero's journey as a concept creates a kind of young naive figure who goes all shonen
sjwking ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:19:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There has to be balance
moimana ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:56:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think it does make sense. This movie takes the earlier theme of balance in the force further. Because there was darkness. There must be light. Instead of a 3d Skywalker. Rey is Just a random hero of the light. Imo this explains her Powers Just as well. And gives far more depth to the whole star wars universe
ender23 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:32:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
it's not like the skywalkers inherited their force too. she's awesome cuz the force is strong in her.
moimana ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:56:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think it does make sense. This movie takes the earlier theme of balance in the force further. Because there was darkness. There must be light. Instead of a 3d Skywalker. Rey is Just a random hero of the light. Imo this explains her Powers Just as well. And gives far more depth to the whole star wars universe
Dragshisballsz ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:12:32 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
i knew rey was nobody but i thought she would have some history to explain her connection to the main story, or her apparent prodigal force abilities. she couldve a young student who showed great promise at lukes school but then it got destroyed and luke tried to hide her for her own saftey or something. instead we got nothing and are just supposed to believe that some random person is bound by destiny to the skywalker story because its the will of the force? thats bad storytelling and just lazy, the force has been reduced to a plot device to make bad ideas barely believable and its sad to see the franchise treated this way.
ender23 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:55:21 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
no it's not. just because Star wars universe doesn't buy in to your thinking that people have to come from somewhere special to be heros, doesn't mean it can't be true. it's like saying, you can't be president of the US, unless you come from a rich family. i'm sure rich people will look at history and say "oh yeah that's true". but it's technically not true and anyone within the birth parameters can become president.
Dragshisballsz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:19:17 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
im not saying that at all, in fact thats pretty much one of the main themes of star wars and part of what i love about it. what im upset by is the fact that the nobody also has these amazing skills with no explaination of how they got them. training with a staff in the desert in no way makes you better at wielding a lazer sword, she is never shown to have any idea how to fly but is apparently amazing at it, and has no idea what the force is but is somehow able to use it with the skill of a jedi master. it would be like someone how has never played a guitar just picking it up and being able to play sweet child of mine or something and then, without ever have driven a car, steal one and outrun the cops. there is no explanation, not even a throwaway line like "i used to fly ships for unkar plutt" or something that would at least show us why she can fly a ship that requires two people to fly it. and why not just have her able to use the force ever since she was young and just not know what it was or maybe thought she was just special? these are plot holes that shouldve been covered early on in the writing of the story and the fact that theyre there means either the people who were writing it didnt give a fuck or are just incompetent, and honestly its probably both.
ender23 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:56:36 on December 19, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
this is the way i understood it: because kylo kept getting stronger, the force balances, and so rey got stronger and stronger, and somehoe that gave her ability to swing a lightsaber well. lol. i dunno how much ACTUAL sense that makes, but the force is not real, so why does it have to be logical.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:34:07 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It literally says the opposite, with all the talk of "Skywalker blood" from both sides. And, in fact, this goes all the way back to the OT with ESB.
Talent is absolutely inherited.
ender23 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:46:08 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
then how do you explain the parentage. and the kid at the end.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:56:15 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Talent being inherited doesn't mean that all talent comes from the same lineage. In the films at least, the sort of power the Skywalkers have has always been shown to be inheritable. It's why Palpatine wanted Luke, and why Snoke wanted Ben.
Someone can have Force powers without being a Skywalker, but the other relationship (being a Skywalker matters to having Force powers) also seems to matter.
ender23 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:57:49 on December 19, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
so why's it such a big deal rey came from no where.
๐๏ธ unipleb ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 11:10:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not convinced yet though and think this might be misdirection. Could it be the what-you-learned-was-a-lie moment of the next movie? RemindMe! 2 years "Rays parents again"
Frankocean2 ยท 144 points ยท Posted at 11:16:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You know, I'm reading a lot of hate for the film because it didn't explain this or that, but in my mind. It doesn't need to.
Rey's parents were scavengers?. It ties with the last scene, hope can be born everywhere and not every single jedi master needs to be a Skywalker or a Kenobi
JMueller2012 ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 12:27:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And as far as Snoke goes? Whoโs to say that it wonโt be explained in the next movie. Christ, they dusted off the Yoda puppet for this thing 30+ years later, and itโs pretty obvious that heโs incredibly powerful with The Force (Darth Plagueisโs death conquering thechniques)
๐๏ธ unipleb ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 11:22:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with this sentiment and I don't hate anything about the parents reveal. I just think that for something that was made such an important plot point (aka the trippy mirror scene) I'm not convinced they are finished with the topic in the next film.
schmeily2 ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 11:53:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It doesn't make any sense if it is true, as why would the force hide it from her? How would others on her planet not know and have told her? There's no way it ends at this.
Fakayana ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 13:38:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Didn't Kylo said that Rey herself suppressed her memory, because how much she doesn't want it to be true? She's been living in denial.
Also, that was the dark side of the force on that cave. Just like how Palpatine seduced Anakin with a false promise (Plagueis' power to cheat death), it's not inconceivable that the dark side would be tempting Rey with the "knowledge".
schmeily2 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:43:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think I'm taking a different starting point from you in that I'm treating all of Kylo's interactions with Rey after Snoke's death to be manipulative with the one aim of 'recruiting' her.
In regards to the cave, do you mean she got no answer because she was unwilling to be tempted by its power? To me it felt like a "all that matters is you and your decisions... think of how awesome you could be" and left the question unanswered.
Fakayana ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:18:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh I'm thinking more along those lines, too. The dark side never really had an answer, but it still tempted/baited Rey with that knowledge.
Sophobe ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 12:16:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well, I think they made it clear with the kid force pulling the broom.
Fakayana ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:33:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think a lot of people were expecting that this movie would be the one that explains things from TFA, and went away disappointed after that didn't happen.
To me, the opening crawl sets the expectation for the movie. TLJ could have discussed the political ramifications after the Republic's core planets were destroyed. But instead those are all on the opening crawl. "Yes, that really happened, the First Order is absolutely winning now, let's move on with the story."
I totally get if this pissed some fans, but personally I'm glad that they're not beholden to fix the mistakes of TFA, but to create a new story.
DavidOrWalter ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:48:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I get that you liked it but I don't think the time to start a new story is in the middle of your trilogy. It feels really disjointed.
VegemiteMate ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:26:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Isn't it more or less determined that Obi-Wan Kenobi comes from a nobody family as well? There's no great Kenobi bloodline, not like there is with the Skywalkers.
CuntyMcFartflaps ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:57:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Where did Kenobi come from? Nobody asks that. Doesn't matter. No idea why everyone is so stuck on origins with the new films.
krypter3 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:35:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Theres only ever been one Kenobi so It'd be nice to have a lineage
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:45:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
An agreeable sentiment....except the main movies are primarily supposed to be concerned with the Skywalkers. Whoops!
Frankocean2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:21:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not anymore.
zazeron-of-shadow ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:52:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The main movies have only 2 interesting Skywalkers out of a grand total of 6
the Skywalkers need a retirement
Deepandabear ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:03:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Dunno she believed the same thing when she went down to the cave.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:50:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
DoughmesticButtery ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:47:52 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm honestly shocked that anyone believes Kylo's explanation of who Rey's parents are. I 100% think he was lying and trying to manipulate her into coming with him by making her think she had no family to be searching for. I don't believe for a second that who he said her parents were were actually her parents.
Kitzinger1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:01:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How far apart does this film take place between when the Empire was in control and hunting Jedi to current?
If I was a parent and realized that the Empire was hunting down and killing Jedi sensitive children I would try to hide them. Maybe the parents realized that their child would never be safe with them and decided to hide her to protect her.
Kashmir33 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:53:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How do we know Kylo knew about her parents? I thought it was just a line to convince her of his cause. I'm still hoping there is more to her.
schmeily2 ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 11:52:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Almost certain what Kylo says isn't true. The ordering of his comments just show desperation and him willing to say anything to her.
........ please?!?!?
ThatBrownDude ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 11:56:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
IIRC he didn't say they were nothing at first, he made her say it then he did. I mean it's the same really, he planted the seed and got her to admit/believe it.
schmeily2 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:57:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah sorry was paraphrasing out of laziness :)
ThatBrownDude ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:09:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Haha mate I'm on 2 hours sleep cos I saw it at midnight, don't worry.
Deepandabear ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:03:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But she came to the same conclusion on the evil cave didnโt she?
schmeily2 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:14:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly, I wasn't entirely sure what the director was aiming for with that scene.
I interpreted the mirrors showing her again as "the question doesn't matter. What matters is who YOU are". and it left her parent question still ambiguous. I can totally understand interpreting that scene differently though.
DontTrustRedditors ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:13:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In all honesty, who could have predicted that the writer would decide not to have any kind of character whatsoever to Snoke, and to not even try to explain Rey's Sue-dom.
Fans weren't wrong to expect something out of the characters.
Shinsoku ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:32:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I do too. Within minutes RJ crushed what JJ build up two years ago. But sometimes it is just what it is. Nothing to delve into and try to find connections, where there are none.
LinearEquation ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:06:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The plot was pretty much built on tossing fan theories out the window.
DavidOrWalter ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:58:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Along with a lot of their own plot lines they started.
moderate-painting ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:24:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There must be a name for this trope listing the Lego movie and Blade Runner 2049 in it and now this movie. Protagonist with no special origin!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:15:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Millennial fiction!
Sw3Et ยท 77 points ยท Posted at 11:27:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hey, at least you found something to like about the movie. I couldn't.
the_whitewash ยท 137 points ยท Posted at 12:10:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Literally nothing?! Not Williams score, not the great performances from the three leads as well as the whe cast, not the lightspeed crash, not anything? I'm not saying it's a perfect movie by any means, I have quite a few flaws myself (the whole casino planet subplot shouldn't be in the movie), but to not like anything seems a bit off
Frankocean2 ยท 137 points ยท Posted at 12:18:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I loved the film but I can see why it's getting hate.
They expected Star Wars and Johnson did a 180. Even Benicio del Toro character with a Han like attitude was expected to be on that walker, saving the day. Nope, a classic thief.
It destroyed the Skywalker saga and it open another one. Doing so, it destroyed to what we could expect of classic Star Wars
RaptorsFromSpace ยท 93 points ยท Posted at 12:29:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly I fully expect the reaction to take a 180 in a few weeks, like a reverse Force Awakens.
Frankocean2 ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 12:31:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah. This movie is very good. Adam Driver was oscar buzz worthy.
Fokken_Prawns_ ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:39:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think I have seen Adam Driver be bad in anything. That shouldn't be the redeeming factor of this movie.
TinMachine ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 13:42:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Best Supporting Actor for Mark Hamill imo, absolutely amazing imo.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:36:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
amazing? what did Mark Hamill actually do other than sulk?
TinMachine ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:39:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you check the movie out you'll see, amazingly, Mark Hamill acting in a number of scenes!
vitrix-euw ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:35:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You're forgetting Reddit has a big hard on for mark hamill
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:24:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think everyone (myself included) was just really hyped to see ol' marky mark on the big screen again, but some people are still in denial that he basically did jack shit other than sulk and make a few marvel-esque snarky remarks. Don't get me wrong, I love Mark Hamill still, he was just gravely under-itilised in this movie.
wee_woo ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 13:27:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Kylo would need to have a gay romance with Snoke while underaged to be considered.
lisward ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:33:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nah people gonna say itโs good first, then shit it on, I can predict what theyโre gonna say. Shit movie not really a Star Wars movie. Contrarian for the sake of it. Killing plot lines for no reason, corporate crap peddled to the masses, shit acting, Mary Sue characters, basically ESB.
Exactly like force awakens.
Go classic Star Wars and reddit rages and says that itโs a shit series that relies on the nostalgia of the original trilogy, to the point where people were saying the new movies were better because โat least George Lucas tried something newโ.
Asiriya ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 18:42:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Those are all completely valid criticisms...
ezioaltair12 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 21:34:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I 100% agree with those criticisms re: TFA though. JJ did exactly what he did with Star Trek - make a good movie that's largely powered on an insane amount of nostalgia. That's why I liked TLJ - even if I wasn't a fan of all the choices, I liked the willingness to break out of the old paradigm, and way more of it worked for me than didn't.
MandriII ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:13:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So you expect more people to hate it in a few weeks, or vice versa?
RaptorsFromSpace ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:09:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Vice versa. Thereโs a ton of hate for it right now.
DavidOrWalter ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:53:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Seems like there is a ton of love for it to me. Highest rated SW movie ever, critical acclaim, etc.
RaptorsFromSpace ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:40:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
True critically itโs being praised, but the comments in every thread have been quite polarizing and it seems like a lot seem to really dislike it.
elbenji ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:42:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean they literally predicted that.
It will be divisive
blaquelotus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:59:09 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think you're right. The hate will run out of steam I think. In real life I've only met one person who didn't like it and he like many posters here on Reddit was very impassioned about it. I suggested that he give it a couple of weeks then go see it again.
RaptorsFromSpace ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:16:21 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Iโve been trying to circulate this article around because it perfectly sums up how I feel about the film and how I wish others would see it.
http://www.slashfilm.com/the-last-jedi-defense/
blaquelotus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:34:22 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks for that. That is an excellent read.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 16:18:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:42:46 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. The whole thing felt more like a Harry Potter movie to me.
Even though the resistance is in an absolutely hopeless situation the entire time time, their escape plans fail, the main characters get captured, the armored base plan immediately fails trapping everyone there, and so on..
Yet it's told in such a silly way that you never for one second actually feel like they're actually losing because there's always some magical gotcha that saves the day at the last moment. It's used so much it becomes entirely predictable.
wanabejedi ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 13:57:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Your Benicio del Toro criticism is one I don't get at all. We have had 2 years of whining and moaning that episode 7 was too similar to episode 4 and how JJ Abrams plays it too safe and the moment we get a character that is different we get whining that the character wasn't a copy of a beloved old character. What's worse is that I would bet all the money in the world that had he been in that walker as you suggest we would have had a bunch of fans complaining of the opposite "but he is just a copy of Han Solo with the same character arc but in a condensed manner".
Obiwontaun ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 15:42:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's almost like Star Wars fans are impossible to please on a general level.
killarufus ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:52:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's almost like there's a multitude of star wars fans, all with different experiences and opinions.
Obiwontaun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:56:08 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. I just got home from seeing it and absolutely loved it.
killarufus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:25:31 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought it was meh. I don't know. I'll go again to double check--enjoyed some parts, eye rolled at others.
Elgato01 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:44:22 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs almost like every fandom is impossible to please on a general level.
Obiwontaun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:56:40 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Too true.
GaiusHegamonus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:35:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I would have liked them to try something new, but this isn't a standalone film so it has to fit in tonally and thematically with the other Star Wars films. This one is so off the mark that without the aesthetics and old characters it wouldn't even be Star Wars.
Grazer46 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:52:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No it doesn't, you just want it to. I think that a lot of people would agree with you, but that doesn't change the fact they don't have to do it.
Frankocean2 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:44:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It wasn't a critic. I liked the character. I loved that Johnson decided to do a 180.
wanabejedi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:01:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ah ok. I misunderstood your comment. Sorry.
Linubidix ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:23:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I just thought the character was a waste of time to begin with.
SkidMcmarxxxx ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:11:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How did it do a 180? It's just a bad movie. Regardless of it being a star wars movie.
Jezamiah ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:06:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I actually liked this and felt it was very mature. Not everything will go the happy way you expect. And he was down to help him until they got caught. He didn't owe them anything and saved himself.
Frankocean2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:21:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Agreed
deathmouse ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:55:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
People hate TFA because it's too much like A New Hope, people will now hate The Last Jedi because it's too different
It is what it is.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:44:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
being "different" is so vague that this is a very dishonest way to dismisss that criticism.
if they had made a porn movie, being "different" would be a totally valid complain.
you just make it sound as if people can't decide and that is very dishonest. a new hope can be considered too similar and a last jedi can be considered too different for the star wars franchise and that added up criticism can make total sense. there is a lot of room inbetween too similar and too different. not hitting that spot in the middle is a totally valid complain.
deathmouse ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:46:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
wtf did i just read?
Asiriya ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:44:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Different is fine, this wasn't different. It replayed ESB and RotJ, admittedly twisting them a little bit, and the result was decent. But then they piled in a bunch of ridiculous sub plots. Ffs, Hux impatiently chases the cruiser for fucking days without thinking to launch his fucking TIEs. WTF????
ITS THE DUMBEST SHIT.
DavidOrWalter ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:53:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't get this... why do people think it was so 'different'?
a_potato_is_missing ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:14:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was just thinking exactly that. I really enjoyed it because of it being different, if it was just more original trilogy it would just get boring.
Drama79 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:04:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Benicio's character was Lando 2.0 - I saw that pivot coming a mile away. A rare bit of franchise fan service, I thought.
aulum ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:29:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly why I like it. The 180 is something the series surely needed. It's opening doors for different things. The whole movie is about it. I loved the DJ character ( i won't have included the lisp, especially not for comic relief) But that is at least a really time thief. Like Han should have been. Maybe he'll star in de Rian Trilogy
HalfLife3-CONFIRMED- ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:11:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
One that few people will give a damn about
Dragshisballsz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:08:57 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
so it destroyed what people loved and the only reason most people are invested in this new trilogy, and left them with a story not worthy of being in the same conversation as star wars. this trilogy will be remembered for killing the franchise and disney will just move on to the next one, i wonder if theyll consume harry potter next, or maybe lord of the rings? who knows but whatever it is will be tainted forever. at least they cant change the past and we will always have the lucas era of star wars, basically the real star wars. anything besides what he and his team makes is just fan fiction.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:19:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
Sw3Et ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:48:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I fucking loved Force Awakens. This one is crap though. I hope JJ can save it with the 3rd.
Fiti99 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:25:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well this isnt classic star wars, this is a new star wars
DavidOrWalter ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:51:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's Good vs Evil. It's going to be classic star wars.
DontTrustRedditors ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:28:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The score is an important part of a movie, similar to lighting. You need them to be good to make a good movie. But if the first thing you have to point to is a good score, the movie is probably off to some degree.
JDFreeman ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:32:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Williams Score was a total phone in, I wouldn't use that as an example...
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:13:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Indrigis ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:29:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was more like "Hey, wait, you had the ability to do it all along?!"
Sw3Et ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 21:49:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why didn't they hyperspeed into the death star?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:22:41 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Furthermore why did someone need to pilot the ship? Do they not have remote control? Why not remote control an x wing at hyper speed into the Death Star?
Indrigis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:07:04 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you hyperspeed into the Death Star it will explode. Many Bothans died to bring us this information.
Obviously, if the FTL tech implies the ship just accelerating to light speed, and not instantly shifting into hyperspace, then ramming something while accelerating should have the destructive effect.
The big question is why the director chose to break convention and use this in TLJ, making all the prior movies look stupid...
TheGreatBatsby ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 13:46:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Williams score was such a let down. Don't get me wrong, all the motifs and callbacks to the other films were great. But I couldn't tell you how a single piece of new music went in that film.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:07:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When you don't like a film, even the good parts become infected, because by then you just don't care.
LawbringerS13 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:08:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wiliams score??? You mean the remixed stuff he had out in the last couple movies?
Swedishstyle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:35:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Great performances? You could have swapped out Rey for a sponge in half of her scenes and I would've felt more emotion
atomicbrett ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 12:29:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Damn the casino subplot was one of the more enjoyable parts until the ending battle imo, I felt the Rei/Luke and rebel ship sideplots were a slog
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 16:50:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
everything with rei is a slog. she is just in there to please the sjw's.
jumpyg1258 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:45:09 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This movie did the typical 3 diverging storyline bits like other Star Wars movies and I must say, I wasn't a fan of 2 of them. Movie was only interesting IMO during the Rey/Skywalker parts of the movie.
Malarazz ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 13:54:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's odd because that movie was perfect.
Sw3Et ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 13:58:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You'll look back on that comment one day and laugh.
theBelatedLobster ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:02:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I had a $50 bet that Snoke was Plagueis. The other party said he would just be a weak force user. First half hour, we see cross the galaxy force use, fucking Sith lightning. I'm like "Oh Boy, can't wait for my $50". Then when he does that super strong force connection thing I'm like "THE REVEAL IS RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER"... then nothing.
I feel like in 6 months they'll announce "We meant for Snoke to be Plagueis but didn't want to confuse the fans with a stupid name drop".
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:20:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why would a name drop be in the movie... It'd be khan all over again, just absolutely pointless. It's not a "reveal" if the reveal means nothing to the audience, I wish I had friends who'd take these kinds of bets
theBelatedLobster ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:46:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well, here was my thought process on making the stupid bet.
Narrative reasoning: There is a Sith or Sithlike person training Kylo Ren. Either Snoke came along and taught himself the ways of the Sith. Or he was somehow connected to Sith line, either as a previously unnamed apprentice of Palpatine, or, as I thought, an older master who was thought to be dead.
Production reasoning: There are a bunch of stupid trends going through blockbuster movies including Disney/Marvel projects. They like to do things that they think is clever misdirection; the old "Oh you thought the villain was Y, well it's actually X". And you mentioned another; the Khan indecent. See also Blofeld, etc. It's misguided fan service, I guess? I simply thought stupid mistakes would go on being made.
Clues (that were either me looking into it too much, or less likely, things that will be confirmed when Snoke's true identity is finally revealed! (I'm not hopeful)): Snoke looks like a Muun. Plagueis was a Muun. The Snoke leitmotif sounds similar to the score playing in the background of the scene where Palpatine tells Anakin 'the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise. Only have to listen 10 seconds in. Snoke's face is all fucked up, and could be explained by him surviving a mortalish wound. And Plageuis is said to have been able to cheat death. If one character can come back, seemingly from the dead, it's not a chopped-in-half Darth Maul who built spider legs out of garbage - it's the guy that is explicitly stated to have life preserving capabilities!
And it's not necessarily pointless. It doesn't make sense outside of the self-contained narrative of the standalone film, but then again, it is Episode 8 in an ongoing saga. Fans who have watched Episode III will recognize it.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:16:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah these are all fair reasons aha. I reread my last comment and it was meant to be a bit tongue and cheek, teasing you about the bet but I think it may not have come off that way (and if that's the case, that's my bad). Honestly, in the EU it's very likely that snoke will turn out to be plagueis (even though it wasn't revealed in the movies) and they definitely could have done a "khan" or "Blofeld" moment (especially considering the executive producer).
The soundtrack similarity is also a good catch, honestly the fanboy in me gets mad whenever Darth plagueis is even mentioned (purely because palpatine making up a bullshit story about the power of the dark side is such a great plot point in III). I've always hated the convenience of plagueis being made canon in the EU as being sidious' master, kinda ruins sidious as a manipulator if it turns out he was telling the truth about the dark side being able to preserve life.
Good luck with any bets you might take in future! Again, was meant to be tongue and cheek but some of my salt about plagueis' existence might have carried over...
Lobonerz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:27:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Technically your friend was wrong too Snoke definitely wasn't weak. And there's no proof he ISN'T Plagueis...
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:14:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Or who the hell that guy was that had the Skywaker map at the beginning of TFA.
SkidMcmarxxxx ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:09:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I loved it. Along with the tossing of the laser sword.
StrangerDangler ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:23:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And honestly that kind of killed the movie for me. They had SO much room to be creative and really do something with those, and Rian was like "lol nope"
lasaczech ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:33:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I can, personally, deal with Snoke being shafted in favor of Ben but I cannot fucking deal with Rey being nobody...that hit me really hard.
RealZordan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:01:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you liked that may I interest you in a little show called Lost? It's like that, but it takes a lot longer.
DanWhisenhunt ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:23:20 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, thank you. That pissed me off so bad.
kshef06 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:37:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But that's how they get us to come back...with the promise of 'this mystery will be solved in the next episode.' God it was horrible...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOW2jzcGbbc
originalityishard69 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:10:38 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Disney hella fucked with us haha
DoctorDiscoBiscuits ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:10:23 on December 25, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Snoke may not be dead. If he is in fact Darth Plagueis, he can return. I mean...look at those wicked scars he had. This can't be the first time he's been struck down.
Dous91 ยท 743 points ยท Posted at 12:50:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did Finn and Rose actually achieve anything in the film? Because I feel their whole trip was pointless.
OutOfMoneyError ยท 551 points ยท Posted at 13:59:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They got a lot of resistence people killed. Yep, that's their only achievement.
-Shia-LaBeouf- ยท 339 points ยท Posted at 15:30:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I actually liked that. I liked that the standard mission to heroes to infiltrate and bring down the empire didn't work. It's a major curveball cause you expect their mission to end up being the crucial saving grace for the resistance like always. They should have dealt better with the aftermath though. Like Finn and Rose ending in captivity or feeling intense guilt. But they just continued on like they didn't just cause hundrerds of people to die.
kennyismyname ยท 59 points ยท Posted at 22:54:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah totally agree. Neither of them are master spies so instead of saving the day like we all suspected they fail.
It also shows how Finn's recklessness got people killed. If he hadn't let them go then del toro wouldn't have been able to betray them.
Back on the finn and rose are not spies thing, I liked how we never saw del toros character have a red flume tattoo or secret red flume pin or something. They didn't manage to get who they came for, they found a scoundrel and paid for it in the end.
Derron_ ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 23:54:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'd say it's Poe's fault more than theirs as he was trying to act like the leader and went behind Holdo's back approving it. His plan to go behind her back ruined their actual plan. Holdo doesn't need to tell Poe about her plan because he's only a pilot due to his demotion.
Mintfriction ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 01:15:23 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Exactly, I was already rolling my eyes that again they infiltrate and succeed and it was so satisfying when they failed
mcafc ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:32:37 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly it made it better. It made the moment where Luke came down much more desperate.
bedbugsex ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:41:56 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rose seemed to get a promotion actually. After she got back she became "one of the main guys" and seemed to have some command and got sent on important missions.
BriskCracker ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:58:41 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No. Stop. Don't like it. If you like it then they do it again. There either has to be a payoff for that side mission or there needs to be way of telling the audience why there won't be a payoff, and that in itself becomes a payoff. All that screentime was was shitty and empty padding with the worst writing of any star wars film to date.
gregsy112 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 00:29:36 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They ignited the 'spark' in the little kids on the casino planet; the spark they refer to throughout the film that will light the fire that will bring down the First Order!
AsteroidMiner ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 01:36:17 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yoda told Luke that a teacher should teach his students about failure. The whole movie deals with this. How you bounce back from failure and how there's always hope even after screwing things up.
HellenKellersEyes ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 17:21:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Well they are treasonous rebels and the empire is only trying to stop Space ISIS from killing more citizens...
Edit: For the people PM'ing me. The Jedi/Rebels are totally ISIS. Theyre lead by a wierd religion of old men in robes and sandals who blow up government property , say theyre right all the time, introduce young kids to weapons, manipulate peoples minds and believe in an aftelife. Oh also the mostly recruit in sandy areas. They're the villains. Dont root for the villains.
Mother_Jabubu ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 22:03:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Do the resistance also keep sex slaves and lock people in cages and shoot rockets at them for laughs
HellenKellersEyes ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:26:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes they do, remember good is subjective. They brainwashed R2, lied to the gaurds d manilulated their brains, tied to scam a junkyard owner out of caps, and leg ewoks xesecrate graves s d eat human fleah because theh "won".
Asiriya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:48:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And the First Order are the American Empire?
HellenKellersEyes ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:06:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The first Order are Britain during the time of the Dutch East India company. Theyre small and want power, but the Dutch control everything, so they're willing to even hirt their cause for even a little ground.
The Empire is so big and vast in the galaxy that theyre too busy between wierd bullshit between two parties.
Also if the Rebellion won the ln in 30 lost control of a galaxy, where they competent to begin with?
Asiriya ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:38:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Which Empire?
No idea what you're saying.
HellenKellersEyes ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:00:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Jesus.
Okah the rebellion is hinted at winning in ROTJ. If the rebels win and install a government of their choice and are now back to fighting that means theh really suck and that the empire still is strong.
The Empire is the main protagonists of the original trilogy. You should watch those movies, because you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
Asiriya ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:41:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I have no idea why you're talking about the Empire at the same time as the First Order.
HellenKellersEyes ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 22:47:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You're a troll
Asiriya ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:01:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No I'm not. I genuinely don't understand, we're 30 years after the OT and as far as I'm aware the Empire doesn't exist, just the Republic and the First Order, with the Resistance as a tiny rebel group. They don't go out of the way to make it clear though...
You also wrote :
I still don't understand what that's supposed to mean.
FuujinSama ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:14:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He's struggling to say that after winning in the first trilogy, the rebellion must've done a shitty job if they've lost control to another guy using the dark side of the force.
Asiriya ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:29:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ahhh. Poor argument? Much harder to maintain a democracy than a dictatorship, especially when your dictator is a god.
RubberDong ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:44:54 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
so did Apocalypse.
If he didn't destroy the bombers...he could have done the same thing with the main ship, no?
uravg ยท 332 points ยท Posted at 13:30:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well Phasma gets screen time from that subplot so toy money๐ฐ $$$$
Spawn3323 ยท 344 points ยท Posted at 14:23:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She is such a disappointing character.
RosMaeStark ยท 128 points ยท Posted at 14:43:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They were trying to make Boba Fett 2.0. Cool armor, physically impressive, we hear how badass they are but they don't do a whole lot, and both died in a lame way.
nommas ยท 53 points ยท Posted at 21:20:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Fett was cool because he was faceless and mysterious. Phasma is only cool because she has shiny armour. We know she's a First Order military commander, and now we know she is a blonde human. The moment we saw her eye, all that faceless mystery sinks away.
It's hard to make a character cooler than Fett. Part of the reason why Fett was so badass was because he wasn't the focus, just a side character that did his job. Phasma has too much attention and focus on her, so she won't be as interesting as a result of that.
Fnhatic ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 03:34:32 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Phasma is cool to me because it's fucking Gwendoline Christie. She deserves better.
nommas ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 04:23:39 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Tell me about it! I love her so much and I was so hyped when I saw Phasma was returning in this movie. Even with what happened to her in TLJ part of me was like "maybe she'll be back next movie, and cooler!". Such a waste of potential. Great actor, great character design, gone to poor writing.
astraeos118 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 02:01:35 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Boba Fett did next to nothing in the movies though too. He looked cool in ESB, and thats about it, then he died a stupid death in Jedi.
SlickWiggler ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:19:14 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
ESB Boba Fett just oozes competence, though. He's the only one who wasn't fooled by Han's float-away-in-the-garbage trick, he tracked them and called in the Empire, and even backtalked Vader himself. Yeah he's not on screen much, but every moment he is, he's 100% in control. ROTJ completely undoes this because Lucas is an idiot sometimes, but ESB is why people like Boba Fett.
Phasma is cool at first, but as soon as Finn captures her she caves to his demands. Then in TLJ she has one admittedly cool fight scene, but then she presumably dies. Both movies she's been in, she's just been lame.
-Badger2- ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:35:20 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hey, he looked cool giving bounty hunter Leia that little nod in RotJ.
[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 18:50:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Fett didn't die tho! Harhar!
goteamnick ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:25:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I am unconvinced that she died in that scene.
GingerRocker ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 20:51:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you think she's dead then you haven't been paying attention.
DragonEevee1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:52:05 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So it is just Boba Fett 2.0?
FalcoVet101 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:58:32 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nah, she's alive. Helmet was only cracked and it left a mystery of what her face is like. She'll be back and have her helmet removed in the last movie.
NeekoPeeko ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:21:38 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
At least Fett captured Solo and brought him to Jabba. Phasma literally does nothing.
demonya99 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:45:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Fett did not die in the Sarlacc pit; he survived thanks to his armour. Phasma is implied to have died, she could very well have survived. Her armor is super tough, probably not cortosis tough like Fett's, but they showed onscreen that it can stand up to blaster fire. It's quite possible that she will either return on IX or on other media like Fett.
eraserdread ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 20:03:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She has way more screen time than Boba Fett. She's way cooler.
[deleted] ยท 35 points ยท Posted at 15:17:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
CleverZerg ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:15:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Boba was at least useful up until his embarassing death. I assumed that they would develop Phasma in this movie since she didn't do shit in the first one - I was quite surprised to see that she yet again didn't do shit and that she now is seemingly dead. Why would you bring her back if you're not interested in doing anything with her.
T0yN0k ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:19:54 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why even create her character?
Ev0lt4 ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 14:35:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's an understatement. Easily a contender for the worst character ever.
slayerzomby1994 ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 15:53:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exqueeeeze me. Mesa would like to introduce you to anotha Star Wars character
ammobox ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:26:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
So, you're trying to say that the true Sith Lord Jar Jar is worse than Captain Chrome?
Get out of town.
Edit- For those who don't know.
https://youtu.be/8yy3q9f84EA
DocerDoc ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:59:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not necessarily a bad character, just an under utilized/developed one.
fgdadfgfdgadf ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:23:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She has the character depth of a zombie
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:19:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Do people actually like her? The character not the actor. From the very first trailer I thought she looked stupid, too tall, too chrome, silly damn weapons and her voice... Isn't menacing at all
rebel scum -chip/dale
NeverForgetBGM ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:45:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Haven't they all been super disappointing aside from maybe Ren? These Disney Star Wars movies are freaking awful.
Gringos ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:20:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's just, like, your opinion, man.
Death_Star_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:39:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Imagine the hatred for the whole creation together if Brienne of Tarth was a nobody under there, just some random shoe horned big woman.
At least going into TFA fans could say โitโs Brienne in a Boba Fett role!โ
Even now, itโs โGwen Christie is wasted on this,โ instead of โInternet sends death threats to unknown actress for captain phasmaโs existwnce.โ
Dragshisballsz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:21:56 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
he/she is such a disappointing character describes 99% of the characters in this trilogy.
a_wild_thing ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 14:39:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Unfortunately this is the tl:dr
SneakyBadAss ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:36:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That scene didn't make sense at all. So they are preparing to execute them, then hyperspeed ram happen (which should happen waay before that) and star destroyer end being up ripped apart. Now you can see dead stormtroopers lying dead beside Finn, but lo behold Msr. Aluminium can walk through a functioning door, like nothing happened.
Do they have countless clones of phasma and just sending them out for shit and giggles?
drivendreamer ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:19:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Now you are getting it
CanadianJesus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:05:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJOjTNuuEVw&feature=youtu.be&t=17s
baktiar77 ยท 44 points ยท Posted at 16:26:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I thought Rose only did maintainence work and hence was fangirling so hard over Finn in their first scene.
How did she in the course of a couple of hours(assuming the fuel was running out in 6 hours) or a day or so, become such a tough nut cracker with great fighting and flying skills? ๐ค
[deleted] ยท 155 points ยท Posted at 14:46:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I kind of cringed at Rose's dying words, it was akin to the Suicide Squad's "I already lost one family, I'm not losing another" line. Their plot was so unnecessary and uninterested I was just left thinking, huh? why does she love him exactly? what have they actually exchanged other than walking around a casino, riding horses and following a theif around for a while.
barandor ยท 158 points ยท Posted at 17:24:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Then I've got some bad news for you, she survived. Finn called out for a medic when he dragged her in. Although maybe they can't find one since the entire rebellion fits in the Millenium Falcon at this point and they kill her of that way.
TG-Sucks ยท 47 points ยท Posted at 18:46:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Speaking of which, how the hell did they even get back to the base? It was pretty far away from the gate, and they were right up at the line of walkers. Did he carry her all that way unnoticed?
barandor ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 18:47:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He used the force.
[deleted] ยท 40 points ยท Posted at 19:44:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's not how the Force works.
WhatTheFhtagn ยท 33 points ยท Posted at 23:37:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Tell that to Carrie Poppins.
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 23:57:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That whole scene killed the movie.
Herbstein ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:02:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
We see her lying in the Millennium Falcon at the end, and Finn tucking her with a blanket.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:35:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah you just reminded me...she may as well have died though, I didn't mind her, she was just pointless.
barandor ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 17:38:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Same here, she just felt like some lucky fangirl who won a role in Star Wars not a real character.
Asiriya ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:49:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She's basically the fat girl from Star Trek Disco.
RealZordan ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 23:01:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They blew up that awesome A-Wing pilot (in the Hangar!!!) and kick ass Laura Dern but thank god Finn and Rose survive...
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:11:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
that a-wing pilot had more charm than a lot of the things in this movie :(
Adamulos ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:08:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not losing you, you are my last jediโข
TheKingPlayah ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 01:21:35 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I found it funny when Finn accosted the thief (whose name I don't recall) for not having any idea what Rose's medallion meant to her. Neither did Finn, as I recall - the two never spoke about it. At least, not that we saw.
Tsenta ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 17:32:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rose feels like a Hunger Games character, just even more preachy.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:36:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
you hit the nail on the head.
Death_Star_ ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:45:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe she loves the idea of him.
It takes a fuck ton of courage to turn your back on the First Order and flee with a high value prisoner.
Heโs basically a legend in the making for the resistance.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:57:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Movie relationships have been built on less. What have they done but save one anothers lives, go through hell, learn about each other and take on a almost certainly suicidal run together.
Christ, I once started planning a life with my barista because she put a heart in chocolate dusting on my hot chocolate.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:07:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Stories are not real life, you can rationalise it all you want, but their story wasn't interesting.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:21:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, I'm not arguing it's interesting, they, barring providing a little hope to kids on the casino world, were utterly pointless. Didn't make that story arc unrealistic. Just dull.
Dragshisballsz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:24:25 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
people complained for years about the lines of dialogue in the prequels that sounded cringey. looks like disney doesnt want to be outdone.
Minscota ยท 218 points ยท Posted at 13:34:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Finn is overall a pretty pointless character. You could of given his entire plot in the first movie to poe and the movie wouldnt have changed that much.
BiborSonOfBibun ยท 250 points ยท Posted at 13:59:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Which makes me mad. Finn has so much POTENTIAL. I mean, he is an ex-stormtrooper, trying to find his place in the galaxy. They clearly dont know what to do about him.
funktion ยท 125 points ยท Posted at 15:00:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They sent him to the most boring locale possible to do one of the most pointless side quests possible. I was expecting him to die in the "hoth" battle just so that they wouldn't have to write for him anymore.
lemmingsoup ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 17:14:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Gets stranded near the first order forces before the cannon fires and then, off camera, walks all the way back across open ground dragging Rose without being shot or captured.
[deleted] ยท 43 points ยท Posted at 15:55:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 19:07:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Or at the very least let Rose fucking die.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 19:13:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Asiriya ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 19:49:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If only.
stabbybit ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 23:42:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Kill off the Black Guy in Disney's Conspicuously Diverse Star Wars trilogy?
Yeah, that's going to happen, lol.
magickmidget ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 21:57:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I got so excited when it looked like that's what was going to happen. I would've been sad but at the same time, what an unexpected move, killing one of the three "leads". But no. Instead we get a shitty, shoehorned romantic subplot.
frvwfr2 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 02:59:26 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly my thought, I was like "no fucking way here it goes!"
And then disappointment.
MurderousPaper ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:44:31 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't really see it as romantic, more one-sided tbh. Finn doesn't reciprocate when Rose leans in to kiss him coupled with his reaction after reuniting with Rey.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:52:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rose hould not have saved him at the end there.
RealZordan ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 22:59:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"You get the dream job of designing a fantasy casino... for Star Wars"
"Say no more."
makes it a boring ass regular fucking casino, with people in regular dress war and regular games with the surounding landscape resembling to the only other location that is cut away to
TG-Sucks ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:55:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, why the hell would you waste such an opportunity on such a pointless and boring side story. It should have been Poe, Finn and Rose on separate, important mission running parallel to the Rey and Luke story. Or better yet, maybe Poe, Finn and C3PO. Poe and Finn are supposed to be best buds now or something, but we never get to explore it. Poe is supposed to be a major character, but he doesn't really do anything so far outside the cockpit.
Dragshisballsz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:23:00 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
yeah but then the cast would be less diverse and all that screen time in the previous movie wouldve been wasted so they have to stick with him.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:55:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well they got the whole diverse main character out of the way they dont need to bother
Death_Star_ ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 22:42:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I heard some rumblings about 2 years ago regarding about how Daisy Ridley and John Boyega really had problems with each other during the promo circuit and aftermath of TFA, where she was tired of his ego and him bringing like 8 of his buddies to everything and all their antics and treating the whole process like a group of kids going to Disneyland instead of a young actor playing a dream role but still keeping it professional.
It would explain why thereโs so much less screen time between the two in this film, other than of course Dagobah 2.0.
BiborSonOfBibun ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 01:52:00 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wow, I thought they were besties.
RobotWantsKitty ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:30:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Eh, Finn's entire character is so mishandled. His defection is poorly built up. He was being brainwashed for his entire life, and suddenly decides to flee when his buddy dies on one of the missions? That's all it takes to undo decades worth of conditioning? Even then, instead of being a troubled person struggling with his past, he is often reduced to comic relief. I mean, it's Disney alright, but if they are not willing to properly execute a darker characters how it's supposed to be, why even bother?
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:07:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He was a janitor, on his first mission, where he witnesses the death of a fellow stormtrooper and the mindless execution of civilians.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 21:33:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Then the First Order must have the absolute worst military bootcamp in the history of the Star Wars universe. What kind of Mickey Mouse operation are they running? Oh wait..............
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:06:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't remember TFA much but how come they didn't do anything with the rebels not trusting him or smt? He's ex-empire and the rebels are just fine with him walking around doing important shit like what?
Maybe it was addressed in TFA tho.
zatpath ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:08:04 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He is, unfortunately, a garbage man/maid, who defected.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:21:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's another thing that Dick Nose (JJ. Abrams) fucked up. Finn should have been an actual lowly janitor or contractor type, who only joins the First Order because he's stuck in poverty, but sees the evil that is the First Order so he helps Poe escape. Then you could have built up his character. In a way, it would have mirrored Luke Skywalker's journey from ANH to ROJ, and gave something the fans might have cared about. I don't blame Rian Johnson for this btw.
[deleted] ยท 98 points ยท Posted at 14:47:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I like Finn, and he was a nice sidekick character in Force Awakens, his plot was just so god damn pointless in this movie, it's a shame.
eXclurel ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 19:34:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nothing he does leads to anything. He tries to stop the tracker, he fails. He tries to sacrifice himself to save the rebel base, he fails. And these take a lot of time in the movie. There is no payoff in anything he does.
tipodecinta ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 23:31:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's almost as if this movie is trying to put across the idea of hopelessness being a driving force to this battle between the two sides.
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 19:39:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not to mention there weren't even any nice set pieces, I didn't watch star wars to see some LA Hills bullshit casino planet, that was probably the most offensive part of the movie to me.
And christ I forgot about the tracker, what even was the point of that? he just ends up giving it to Poe by the end of the first act and loses all significance in the plot aside from its original purpose, which Finn had 0 effect on.
Zaldrizes ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:06:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Could have*
Akranidos ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:36:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
fuck no, give everything form poe to finn instead, i seriously dread that they are setting poe with rey
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:00:34 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
His arc in this film was clearly building to badass self-sacrifice to become the rebel hero he was supposed to be. But then Disney realised killing off a minority lead would lead to public outcry and chickened out, leaving his arc pretty lame.
infojunkie7 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:09:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But he black.
moderate-painting ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:51:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Finn's the audience surrogate. Nothing more.
Spawn3323 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:23:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He has the inside knowledge.
K_oSTheKunt ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:31:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Which isn't used at all.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:17:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Cletus_TheFetus ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:07:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Which makes Captain Phasma even more useless. She pretty much got beat by the First Orders Janitor.
TheTurnipKnight ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 23:34:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
This is it. This movie made no sense. The whole Casino plotline achieved NOTHING, except for the release of caged race creatures and a little boy being inspired by the rebellion. What the hell was that even about.
jonahedjones ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 19:06:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Seemed like they wrote the rey/kylo story (which is great) and then realised that Finn and Po didn't have anything to do.
CurbedEnthusiasm ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 20:36:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
We were taught about animal rights? :/
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:54:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
From my point of view, they tried to do something. Ultimately, they failed. They were pretty gung-ho and naive. I think you can allow some of the protagonists to fail. But still, that storyline was pretty weak and a tad too long, imo.
pan_de_leche_flan ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:33:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They did make way for that epic scene. They also helped thin out the resistance so everyone could fit on the Falcon in the end.
Rivkariver ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:19:09 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Which...
icemoomoo ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:14:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well they did fly BB8 everywhere where he needed to be. But if you cut them out of the story nothing would change.
rodrigocfd ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:06:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Their travel to Canto Bight made possible the last scene, where the poor boy force-pulls the broom then holds it like a lightsaber against the nightsky. The boy who saved them and got the Rebel ring.
Deepandabear ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 02:39:34 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I actually loved that they achieved nothing, like every damn plan in SW taking on huge odds usually works and you get a โhere we go againโ feeling; and then they fuck up. Was great.
flamingeyebrows ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 14:46:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thats the entire point of their subplot and one of the main themes of this movies. That the world is not so storybook and that a lot of the times shit fails. That hairbrained scheme that involved a turncoat, a mechanic, and a droid to recruit a random code-breaker and save the day? yeah it didn't work out.
[deleted] ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 15:57:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
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flamingeyebrows ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:04:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I loved every moment of Finn and Rose. They brought heart and reality to a superficial surface level portrayal of the Star Wars universe by the prequels. They are people who try to do big things and when it fail have to grow with the punches. They are grand. I hope for a whole lot more of Rose, the best Star Wars character in a long while,
Asiriya ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:51:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was fucking stupid, and all because of Hux fucking chasing the ship. If it was just them getting up to an adventure, fine. Personally I still don't think that belongs in a Saga film. This could have been a Finn spin off in a few years.
Ratachu ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 01:43:49 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was actually ok. I kind of like it
thetossfromanon ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:47:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Although physically they achieved little, I think it was some neat progression of Finn's character from TFA. He's gone from what is essentially a deserter, a coward fleeing his life, to standing up for Rey and looking out for her, to finally accepting that he has a role to play, be it as a hero, a martyr, or part of something bigger. It was subtle, but I thought the subtext of his development was far more enjoyable than the setting he was in. That was what kept the scenes with them so interesting, for me.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:30:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was worse than pointless. It damaged the entire film (deus ex BB-8, terrible CGI adventures as bad as pod-racing, destroyed the pacing, no payoff, no relation to the main plot). It was terrible.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:18:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They managed to cheat death more times than the Flash so there's that.
chiefyk ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:31:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think thatโs the point.
smitcal ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:14:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I wasnโt keen at all for Finns character this time which is a shame because I thought he was amazing in force awakens. Also Poes character was kind of pointless with that whole mutiny thing.
GregorF92 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:42:17 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The entire point of their story was that it shows Poe's character progression from "shoot first, ask questions later" to someone who considers their actions, and how best to act in a situation.
The entire point of what Holdo said to him at the start of the film, where his recklessness got half the Resistance fighters killed.
MakVolci ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 07:29:22 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They failed, which is the theme of the movie.
That_Q_Kid ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:14:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not every mission has to be a success
allmymoneygoestokpop ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:59:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with this. In every movie so far the heroes succeed despite ridiculous odds. This is the rare occasion where an impossible mission stays impossible.
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 16:32:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
That_Q_Kid ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:52:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was a clear objective. They believed their only hope was to take out the tracking system so the resistance could escape
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:58:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
That_Q_Kid ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:01:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes. They never would have been betrayed by the codebreaker and so much more of the resistance would have survived
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:03:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
SlouchyGuy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:41:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What you want is for everything to be successful. It's ok for some things to fail, not everything has to be a heroic deed that ended in victory
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 20:14:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
SlouchyGuy ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 20:18:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You do mind
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:22:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
SlouchyGuy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:44:40 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I did read and their action did have big remnifications, they brought hacker guy to the ship, he revealed transport's position and it killed most of the Resistance.
They failed, they failed spectacularly, they got more people killed just like Po did with his attack on the dreadnought
gcunit ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:12:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It introduced those stable children, leading to the closing scene with broom boy, which presumably has some relevance to IX/future films.
TheLast_Centurion ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:48:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Teaser for Outer Rim stories.
Literally MCU/DCEU/DUCU kind of thing which has no place in here.
But hopefully Im wrong.
drivendreamer ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:18:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Many people agree
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:31:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think what I like is that missions can fail and this showed it.
RavenK92 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:08:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That was sorely missing from the OT, everything Luke Han and Leia did always worked, hence the "Stormtroopers can't aim for shit" stigma that's still prevalent
Srsterlover ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:07:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Affirmative action strikes back.
TheLast_Centurion ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:45:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The kiss.
[deleted] ยท 88 points ยท Posted at 22:29:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 45 points ยท Posted at 22:55:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
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MarvelFan207 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:14:19 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with both ppoints. But if we actually think about phasmaโs escape from a trash compactor, Han, Luke, leia and chewbacca only get out because c3po and r2 were lucky enough to get to a control panel unnoticed and be able to let them out. All phasma had to do was get someone to open it for her. Much more pheasable then in ANH.
[deleted] ยท 791 points ยท Posted at 12:31:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
In the final moments of the movie Finn opens a drawer on the Falcon and it shows the founding Jedi books which were in the Temple. Rey must have grabbed them when she left.
That means Yoda appeared, summoned a lightning storm and burned down the tree for shits n giggles.
SirDanielofBrindley ยท 469 points ยท Posted at 12:53:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Or to hide the fact she took them, from Luke.
[deleted] ยท 1025 points ยท Posted at 13:11:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
thegreatbritish ยท 197 points ยท Posted at 14:39:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"also, there's nothing in that library."
zao007 ยท 50 points ยท Posted at 00:54:26 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But there's ALWAYS money in the bananastand!
duma347 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 20:47:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Holy fucking shit xD
[deleted] ยท 219 points ยท Posted at 13:30:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Holy shit good catch
iwanttosaysmth ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 17:49:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Classic old good Yoda, little trickster
boobsRlyfe ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:06:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Do you think Yoda and Luke fucked during Lukeโs training on Ragobah?
iwanttosaysmth ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:11:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Now I think that
Kiboune ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:30:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Damn, translators in my country messed up...They translated it like " does not already know"
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:39:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Would it be possible to translate it with the double meaning easily? then yes. Otherwise I could live with it.
lasaczech ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 18:37:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Damn...fuck. So it was not metaphorical after all.
dev1359 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 03:37:18 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Still fuckin trolling Luke as a force ghost 30 years later lmao.
Jezamiah ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:11:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yoda still the GOAT
FricklyPrickly ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:35:35 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think the movie showed how u fanboys read in too much into these films.
Halo4356 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:13:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Goddamn
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:48:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I also figured it was to teach Luke his final lesson. He still had that same problem as in Empire and was too fixated on physical objects. I thought that was a really cool moment.
skapuntz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:54:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yoda told Luke she had the books.
rebb1t ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 15:26:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
For what purpose, he does like 30 min after, Yodas a bitch
Sentenial- ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:48:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Force transcended. We'll probable see more of his ghost mentoring Rey in some way.
NightByMoonlight ยท 81 points ยท Posted at 13:04:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
After saying 'she already has everything she needs to know' - looking back on it my thoughts were that he was burning it down so Luke didn't realise that she had taken them, otherwise he would probably have gone after her to destroy them.
pedja13 ยท 79 points ยท Posted at 14:18:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
โthere is nothing in that library that the girl rey does not already posessโ is actually what he says
stabbybit ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 23:54:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ahh, the old Obi Wan Kenobi defense. What he told Luke was true, from a certain point of view.
T_F_K_T_P_W ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:31:01 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Aes Sedai shit. One of my major irritations with the self-righteousness of the Jedi, that and how their own fear of the darkside is what causes people to turn, essentially projection so hard that they create their own fears in flesh.
orange_jooze ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 22:47:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yoda you cheeky bugger
skapuntz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:59:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
he actually says that Rey has the books. he doesn't say it like you think.
Wiffernubbin ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:11:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Man, luke is a dick.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:10:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A lot to learn, he still has.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 13:37:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I THOUGHT I SAW THAT, my friend said I was crazy!
That means maybe Rey read them while on the island? Would explain her sudden spike in power.
confusedbookperson ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:25:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
After all, if I'd been dead with nothing to do for thirty years and someone finally calls for my ghost, I'd want to blow shit up too.
SuIIy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:38:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Classic Yoda. He's been trolling the Jedi, way before Palaptine or Vader.
SneakyBadAss ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:32:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Good old Yogurt.
moderate-painting ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:46:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What a scavenger scum!
SKORPI057 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:39:51 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just like her parents as Kylo Ren mentioned. True or not.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:11:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe also to prevent Luke from finding out Rey took them for some reason.
Calciumee ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:58:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Or Luke put them there when we boarded the Falcon.
jollyreaper2112 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:16:48 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yoda said these scrolls are EU and that's now star wars legends man, no longer canon. trollolololol
ww_brianboitano_d0 ยท 485 points ยท Posted at 15:55:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I enjoyed the light speed kamikaze ram into Snokes ship, but doesn't it kind of make a mockery of all the previous 'how do we destroy the giant super weapon/ship' plots?
Dramatic trench run to destroy the Deathstar? Why bother, just ram a few cruisers at lightspeed into it, same for Star Killer base.
Minscota ยท 356 points ยท Posted at 16:05:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Also the fact no one needed to die because auto pilot exists in the universe.
TheTurnipKnight ยท 56 points ยท Posted at 23:37:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That made me so angry. "Someone needs to stay on the ship for you to escape". WHAT?! WHY?
_sweet_baby_angle_ ยท 41 points ยท Posted at 04:36:16 on December 17, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And then she just stands around until she's watched the first order destroy 20 ships and realizes "oh I should probably do something"
Didn't look like piloting to me
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:22:02 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
DuEbrithiI ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 22:11:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I understood their plan like this: The cruiser holds their attention long enough until the others are far enough away, then goes to light speed to draw them completely away. That would require somebody to activate light speed.
SneakyBadAss ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 23:56:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rather it would require to activate more brain cells from them.
Put cruiser on autopilot, set hyperdrive on timer, fly away and watch star destroyer go poof.
QuickSteam7 ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 23:39:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You think light speed can only achieved by human input? You think it would be impossible for an auto pilot to engage light speed?
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 21:41:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I get that... But I can also respect a character going down with the ship.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:23:21 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There used to be an explanation for the absence of autopilot... The Republic lost an entire fleet of automated ships because of that. It's a plot point in one of the Thrawn novels
Minscota ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:04:45 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The novels were thrown out and are no longer cannon.
Pyronaut44 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:14:22 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That was a ban on slaving whole fleets to a single command ship, not a ban on individual autopilots.
manofonion ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:18:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Dude, you should write Honest Trailers.
lemmingsoup ยท 202 points ยท Posted at 17:22:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If hyperdrives on massive objects can do that, why aren't they consistently used as weapons?
Why didn't the rebels use one of the ships running out of fuel to do the same thing hours earlier?
Biggest problem with the film for me.
noobule ยท 129 points ยท Posted at 20:56:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes but Star Wars is literally exists only because it ignores these kinds of questions
The Death Star is an absolutely bizarre extravagance. Lightsabers would be totally useless against intelligent opponents. Why is Storm Trooper armour is useless? Walker designs are all totally inferior to tanks, and even tanks are pointless with the tech level they possess. Capital ships are never equipped to deal with fighters despite constantly being destroyed by them. Armies are conscripts when superior clone and droid tech exists. Hunter-killer drones should be everywhere. Etc, etc etc.
lemmingsoup ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 21:04:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think i concede every point! I may just be too pedantic to be this franchise's intended audience.
On the subject of the scene we're discussing and stormtrooper armour though, when Finn and Rose are about to be executed the hangar bay they're in explodes.
Prior to the explosion they are two unprotected humanoids (admittedly prone) among a number of armoured humanoids, after it they are unschathed while all of the stormtroopers in their immediate vicinty are incapacitated. What the fuck?
Llaine ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 22:00:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Don't agree on the death star or lightsabers. A small moon capable of destroying planets is terrifying, and I honestly don't understand how force users are anything but super heroes? They can pre-empt opponents to the point where they deflect bullets.
But yeah it never made sense when the prequels introduced an army of droids being a thing. What's the use in clones then? So ethically reprehensible and inferior to boot haha
[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 01:23:27 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This was addressed in Attack of the Clones. The one alien taking to Obi-Wan is giving her sales pitch, and mentions that clones are smarter and more versatile than droids, even with the obedience modifications.
Llaine ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 03:05:39 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I.. just, don't see how. Droids can be purpose built, don't need food, rest, shelter, etc. They don't need to be smart when they physically can't miss a shot.
It ruins the fantasy thinking about this but really, a bunch of dudes even if super good military ones are going to lose to AI droids every time.
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 03:48:47 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I get this from a logical sense, but the droids of the Star Wars universe are 1970s fantasy robots, not modern drones with all the capabilities we would expect. The battle droids used by the trade federation are portrayed as incompetent and numerous, some packing major firepower but all of them severely lacking in initiative and perception. The portrayal is a bit at odds with how they're described as "battle-hardened" by the Naboo security chief, but with how even a few security volunteers are able to fight their way through the palace's security droids and get to the leadership it's safe to say they leave a lot to be desired.
It's something of a story telling requirement, given how any reasonably logical portrayal of space warfare would be almost exclusively waged by drones.
Llaine ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:50:32 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, this is the problem with overthinking Star Wars really, and something lots of people fail to consider. There's so many concessions made for the sake of the story; it's fantasy. Same rules for the Jedi.
turroflux ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:14:47 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well from what we know in game, AI is unpredictable and open to capture.
A droid can't have advanced knowledge of tactics, weapons or enemy locations, they basically have to be dumb and spoken to otherwise the enemy can hack them and gain information.
Clones can't be hacked, well force users can make them speak but everyone else can't.
Remember rogue one's assassin droid? Or R2 or B8? At various points they are all pursued because of information they carry.
It's a good reason to never let droids be in control of things if they can go rogue and divulge all your secrets with a few settings changed.
noobule ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:15:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Glassing a planet with Star Destroyers is plenty scary, and there's no way that building a Death Star the size of the moon is an efficient use of resources. That's like, literally a million Star Destroyers that could threaten dozens of planets simultaneously. And there's no 'all our eggs in one basket' problem.
Well outside of Tartakovsky's Clone Wars series, Jedi have never been shown being able to fight off more than a handful of enemies at a time. And then they never get shot at from multiple angles. Or shot in the hands or extremities where they can't protect themselves with the blade? And people always just use regular blasters against them, like, where are grenades, automatic weapons, rockets, tasers, regular bullets that aren't reflected by light sabers, sonic or other weapons, gas attacks - nets?
Karavusk ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 02:03:20 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Actually the fact that the death star is useless is actually true and in the books/comics (pretty sure that is legend and not canon anymore). Thrawn said that it was a waste of resources and that they should build "literally a milliom star destroyers" but Palpatine wanted it as a sign of power and absolute force above everyone else. This would allow him to disappear and to basicall quit his job for the sake of exploring the force. Basically he wanted to replace himself with it, he wanted to make a new symbol for the empire.
Thrawn knew that it was stupid and tried to stop him but Palpatine said no and of course Thrawn followed his orders.
turroflux ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 06:22:56 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Pointless trying to use physical objects against Jedi when they can just stop them with the force, Jedi can even stop blaster fire mid air, or just absorb it entirely.
In reality Jedi spend way too much time deflecting blaster fire instead of doing what Vader did at the end of rogue one, pulling the guns out of their hands or just using the force is pin them all against a wall at once.
The Jedi don't use the force for audacious displays of power like that, but against a powerful Jedi there is literally nothing anyone could ever do to fight them if they really intended to hurt someone.
jollyreaper2112 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:20:44 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You have good answers for some of that if they would just think.
Lightsabers don't work if you aren't force-sensitive, you'd get blasted. Fits with the idea of peaceful jedi because they can't deflect a bolt back at you if you don't shoot. You be cool, they be cool.
Trooper armor should be better, that's stupid.
Walkers are about intimidation but yes, could be better protected.
Capital ships carry fighters to deal with fighters but the way it's usually depicted on film is dumb.
Clones and drone troopers in the early, early EU canon were considered like poison gas, we all agree not to use it because they were so awful the last time. War droids were illegal weapons in I think the first Solo trilogy and the original idea is that the clones in the clone wars were what the Republic was fighting AGAINST. So yeah, weapons used by baddies, general proscription against them.
TheLastHaggis ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:12:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thatโs the first thing I said to the mrs on the way out. Makes the whole running away thing pointless
SneakyBadAss ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:59:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The whole third act didn't make sense. For example how did "master hacker" new about those 30 ships, fleeing cruiser. Also Rey had great point in the end. How do we rebuild Republic? They have maybe 40 people. It would take them hundred of years, to create even small city.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:46:25 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Geez sounds like the movie is just a bunch of bullshittery
weaknessx100 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:44:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is easily explained though, the First Order was sure that the entire Resistance had fled the ship, and there was no reason to think that anyone had been on the main cruiser.
It's only because of this that they didn't have enough time to react and shoot the cruiser down that the plan even succeeded. If this was common, the easiest way to deal with it would be to simply destrot the ship that's activating it's hyperdrive towards you.
Bad_Fashion ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 18:53:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But even if you did have people on board your ship and the enemy was trying to shoot you down you could just redirect your shields to deflect the barrage while youโre firing up your hyperdrive.
LordManders ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 20:21:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Also, wasn't it made clear by one of the First Order generals that the cruisers were too small (or quick, I can't remember) to be fired upon precisely? Yet they can shoot the transports just fine towards the end.
Also was it explained how the FO could track the Resistance through hyperspace?
Neknoh ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 21:09:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They couldn't penetrate the shields effectively
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:18:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They were too fast to get into the First Order's weapons' effective ranges to damage the shields; it wasn't an accuracy issue, which is why you could see the ship being hit constantly.
Glorfindel212 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 21:06:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No that's still retarded. You can actually light speed in/out like she did on very small distances. So what you do is you simply light speed in for further aways, and they can't do anything, at all.
And this is considering the DUMB version already.
You can simply build relativistic weapons with this kind of technology. It has been done in many good SF books.
Also, teleported nukes or whatever bomb or even object you can think ok. You can just port in whatever shit you want.
Leafs17 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:24:22 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And why didn't the FO just make a short jump ahead of the fleet and turn around and fire? Han came out of lightspeed under the freakin shield of Starkiller base in the last movie.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:18:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
because starwas is and always has been a subpar story
Death_Star_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:06:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly, probably because the Resistance is already arguably a terrorist group and having literal suicide bombings doesnโt look great.
gamemaniax ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:26:02 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
not a star wars nerd, but i assume you need fuel to hyperdrive. i assumed the last ship have ust enough fuel to hyperdrive to closest destination
TLO_Is_Overrated ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:32:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because a resistance doesn't have equal resource to the first order?
When the resistance lost all those ships at the start, Leia was furious.
Do you think they could suicide ships like that freely?
If it was viable for the resistance wouldn't it be more viable for the first order? Why don't they sacrifice ships, they have more resources?
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 23:00:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
TLO_Is_Overrated ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 23:14:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because you can't put a hyperdrive on a piece of metal to get 100% success rate of hitting your target?
If we simplify everything to such strawmen arguments we could find plot holes in anything.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 23:28:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:58:16 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
For me the issue was that they expect us to suspend disbelief about the option of lightspeed weapons but then use one as a major component of the plot. It then became a bit much to ask.
overlordYeezus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:08:01 on December 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, if it was never introduced, I wouldn't have thought twice about it. But now that I saw that scene, it confuses me as to why they didn't take down the death stars/starkiller base with this method.
Osmodius ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 20:55:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It looked fucking sick though.
ww_brianboitano_d0 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:10:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Absolutely, visually the best thing in the film, in any film for a while in fact.
Osmodius ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 22:18:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not just visually, the way it all froze, the sound stopped. Bloody gorgeous.
Like a better done version of the sonic boom bomb things in, uh, one of the new old star wars one.
Fnhatic ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:21:05 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My theater had a few people gasp, and then it was silent as a grave. And then some guy goes 'holy shit!'.
Osmodius ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:33:25 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was totally that guy. Fucking awesome scene.
Jay-Em ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 20:00:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I feel like they're abusing lightspeed to resolve impossible situations in these films. Like the Falcon jumping through the Starkiller Base shields at lightspeed, this kamikaze ram, and now the First Order have developed hyperspace tracking? That kind of changes everything.
Blortholth ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 19:07:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because this movie is poorly written.
Death_Star_ ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:06:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Literally light-speed combustible projectile weapons.
You canโt defend against that.
Fnhatic ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:20:16 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I have to say the visual effects there were probably the best in all of Star Wars.
ww_brianboitano_d0 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:25:22 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Likes lots of other people are saying- the entire theatre was deathly silent as it happened where I saw it too, it was a great spectacle for sure.
ryan-a ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:25:49 on December 17, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I had my qualms with the movie - but you do understand that there's a first for everything, right?
Like do you think there were World War 2 vets watching on 9/11 and thinking "holy shit - why didn't we just hijack some passenger planes and fly them into the Reichstag building, etc"
Omegle ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:36:28 on December 17, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
well it took up to 2017 for terrorists to come up with the idea of ramming cars into people
gypster85 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:43:53 on December 19, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Come to think of it, who needs a Death Star when you can just hyperspace through a planet?
Llaine ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:56:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nah, why do that when you can risk a few tiny ships to nail the weak point? Those bigguns can't be cheap.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:59:59 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Autopiloted light speed missiles
sephelutis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:06:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If light speed Kamikaze, why wouldn't it immediately turn into a blackhole upon impact? :O
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:48:15 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Or make unmanned weapons that do that towards the enemy. The existence of such a weapon or technique would render massive ships useless.
gouflook ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:35:31 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Its a gamble, no one knows what happens when you light cruise towards another object. Also autopilot might cancel the flightpath if there's object on the way.
ww_brianboitano_d0 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:42:47 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thats all they had to say on screen and it would have been fine
whatcouchman ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:44:50 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I've got two thoughts on why it isn't seen two often.
First is that the ship that got used was a rebel capitol ship (?). There's a chance those kinds of things are so big and costly that they're too valuable to use as kamikaze weapons, and that anything smaller has a much lesser effect.
Secondly is that the time to make a jump is pretty obvious and any ships seeing that would usually think to move out of the way, but the Empire were being cocky as fuck and Snoke's ship might be too large to manourve anyway. This would explain why you don't see ships of the same size using it in last ditch efforts earlier in the franchise.
The Death Star was much much bigger than Snoke's ship so wasting a capitol ship on a stunt like that could potentially not damage it enough, plus they already had a plan to destroy it.
At the end of the day that scene was too good to be upset that it hadn't been done sooner.
RightQuark ยท 758 points ยท Posted at 11:34:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The biggest gripe I had with the movie is the fact that they had so many opportunities to give Leia's character a good sendoff, but decided to save her in the last minute.
Really confused about how they're going to include her in the next movie.
marcins ยท 354 points ยท Posted at 11:53:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Theyโll probably time jump to a slightly rebuilt rebellion, and sheโll have died at some point.
Choekaas ยท 251 points ยท Posted at 12:40:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Considering she was done filming episode 8, I don't think they had the hearts of re-arranging it so she dies anyway. But yeah, they need to do a big time jump, because she is safely in the Falcon now. It also seems like the original idea of Episode 9 would feature a scene with Kylo Ren and her, which must be scrapped to do something different.
I think Episode 9 might have it adressed in the opening crawl or start with a funeral. It would certainly up the stakes, that they feel so small compared to the First Order, talking about "all the people we've lost".
[deleted] ยท 164 points ยท Posted at 13:50:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
TheJoshider10 ยท 56 points ยท Posted at 14:18:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I can't imagine a better way for them to start it considering what happened. Maybe even having Billie Lourd say something at the funeral in character about General Organa. 5 minutes at the start, quick glimpse into how far the Resistance has come and we go straight into the movie.
wheresgreensaber ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:39:29 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I hope that Billie Lourd will be leading the Resistance/Rebellion
schleibenschliben2 ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 14:21:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
i will never call her general organa. like, all the other character names stay the same but they've got to give her some weird new identity and awkward scenes and dialogues because of weird social movements happening in the real world? no thanks.
NO_LAH_WHERE_GOT ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 15:54:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
?? Leia's progression from Princess to General is fantastic character development. What's weird about it? It would be weirder if everybody insisted on calling her Princess when she's effectively Princess of nothing at this point...?
schleibenschliben2 ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 16:02:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's terrible. Her name is Leia darn it. Leia. Everything terrible about what they've done to her character is summed up by the space float scene.
NO_LAH_WHERE_GOT ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 16:06:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And Luke's name is Luke, but everyone calls him Skywalker, or Master Skywalker.
That said, I do agree the space float scene couldn't been done better
Asiriya ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 19:40:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Skywalker is weird too, no one calls each other by their last name.
OopsAllSpells ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 23:23:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Uhhhhh... you're kidding right?
Asiriya ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 23:28:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No.
giggles288 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:37:23 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Have you ever talked to human beings before?
Meatballs21 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:03:51 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I disagree with what he is saying about Leia and Luke, but depending on the country he is in, it is very likely noone calls each other by their last names.
I'm from Brazil and almost everyone talks to each other on first name basis, even people who barely know eachother.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:12:30 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lol loads of people do. Literally out of all the people I watched that film with about half I call by their last name
When it's a pupil master relationship it's even more common, did you call your teachers by their first name?
aulum ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:27:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why do you hate it so much? I honestly loved it! It was such a cool moment for Leia. I love the fact that they are nerfing the force and it's devotion to " be a Jedi" in order to use it. It's like saying you should be part of a certain religion in order to be allowed to pray to a god. While you and me perfectly know that if you want to believe you can believe what ever you like. If the force is real in this world there shouldn't be a entrance exam for you to use it. But us as fans - we never saw anything other than this misuse. I feel it's an great step in the direction for Starwars, keeping the force relevant in any other story we're ever going to see. Yes it's an easy plot device, but also a creative gold mine. Yes it's less special, but is already less special, if your honest. Right? Might as wel make the best use of it. Because at the end of the film, when this little stable boy forcegrabbed that broom. That was.. a little..cool right? Come to think of it, Disney is kinda throwing it us right in the face. " The Force Awakens" oh and " the LAST Jedi"
your_mind_aches ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:30:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This movie really expanded the boundaries of what the Force can be, and who can use it. I really like that.
schleibenschliben2 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 21:39:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It devalues the force and cheapens 40 years of culture/mythos with bland, feel-good 'everyone can be a jedi' sentiment that's just designed to sell more crap to more people and pander to the ultimately self-serving and manipulative political sentiments that are fed to people by corporations and the media.
aulum ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:34:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No man no, please. Why look at it like that? What is the point? I love the mythos and it doesn't cheapen it one bit. For 40 years we had the mega-force and now it's time for everyone to share a little force. Yes, it's media, yes it's money all that. But Everything is! Why not just take it for what it's worth. There will be so much more cinematic goodness to consume, stories get different, within the universe of Starwars, not some " something-like-starwars-indietitle-. And it will all be connected since we do that now. It is going to be great.
schleibenschliben2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:35:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It stinks.
Dragshisballsz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:20:50 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
which is probably why it will never happen.
derHumpink_ ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:26:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But then they could've just killed her around the end tbf
DaLateDentArthurDent ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:36:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You have to consider, they had all her scenes done and she was relevant to the story at several points. Killing her off means reshoots, rewrites. Youโve got to have an appropriate reaction to it. If she died at the moment where she used the force then sheโs gone in the first 20 minutes, which means an already completed film has to be entirely rewritten
suss2it ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:34:34 on December 17, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well not entirely rewritten since she was in a coma for a lot of it.
RealZordan ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:14:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My guess is that they wanted to make the movies Han -> Luke -> Leia themed and you can't really change that anymore. What really puzzles me, is that they said Carrie Fishers death is not going to affect the movies which it will do infinitely.
orange_jooze ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:46:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Every episode starts with a shot of space. A perfect Ep. 9 opener for me would be on a memorial to Leia floating among the asteroid field that was once Alderaan.
RunDNA ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:05:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
aka The Tom Hagen Offscreen Death
HellenKellersEyes ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:19:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Aka Cyclops in X2. "Wheres scott?" "LOL DONE-YION RINGS! We're not even going to ahow a corpse!"
aulum ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:12:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Resistance* :P
NeekoPeeko ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:23:01 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
hmm, if only they'd done exactly that two movies ago.
Kiboune ยท 34 points ยท Posted at 13:02:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah. "Goodbye Leia. I will mis...wait whaaat?!". 30 minutes later - "Ok, now you totally gonna die :( You was gre...oh, c'mon!!".
moderate-painting ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:42:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
From my point of view, Leia is the Not Quite Dead baddie!
[deleted] ยท 83 points ยท Posted at 13:29:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That scene when she is blast into space would have been a great ending for her, the tears were coming then she saves herself...
TheWorldIsAhead ยท 155 points ยท Posted at 13:41:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Is being blasted out a window a fitting end for Leia "strong in the Force like everyone in my family, offspring of Darth Vader" Skywalker? Would it have been the dumbest death ever if Carrie Fisher was alive? Then it's still the dumbest death now.
[deleted] ยท 60 points ยท Posted at 14:13:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Leia should get a proper funeral scene for sure, but saving herself with the Force is dumb compared to what it used to take to be even competent with the Force. After TFA, it's just par for the course.
Remember when zero training with the Force for the most powerful Jedi ever just meant you were able to do pod racing?
Leafs17 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 02:37:36 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You nailed it.
AdolphKlitler ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:28:01 on December 17, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe it will get retconned that this is the real reason why the Jedi never accepted anyone over a certain age -- the kid could realize that Jedi discipline means nothing in terms of strength and that they came to be nearly as strong in the force with simply getting older as they would have in Jedi training.
Jedi training just helps people learn how to access their power and control it through discipline, it had nothing to do with "getting stronger with the force".
At least that's my half-cocked Saturday theory.
TheWorldIsAhead ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 15:15:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Nobody has said Leia hasn't been trained in the Force.
"Why didn't Leia develop her powers and understanding of the Force with Luke?" - me and a bunch of people after TFA
Answer in The Last Jedi: She did.
And yup, you can take your force powers and run if you want, and Leia clearly did. You don't have to be a Jedi. And that makes perfect sense in this time period, unlike Count Dooku who took his Jedi Master title and left the whole Jedi Order to be a rich guy. So what was the point of Anakin not being able to love Padme? He could have just quit any day and went on developing his powers alone and kept his lightsaber (or built a new one). It's not like the Jedi Council keeps tabs on Jedi who quit and are also powerful enough to fight Yoda.
It makes no sense for Leia to have put on some Padawan robes and ran around like some simple recruit with Luke (and for all we know, she did). But I suppose nerds on the internet gotta nerd, and you can't have powers unless you "study the blade" for a while first, right? Wrong. In Star Wars you can.
ThanosDidNothinWrong ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 19:22:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Also, it's not like reaching out a hand and pulling something towards you with the force is considered a highly advanced jedi technique
Asiriya ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:43:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Using it to pull yourself towards something far more massive than yourself is not something we've seen before, and likely not as easy as pulling a lightsabre. I think it's stupid.
radol ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 00:13:03 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What about "force jump"? Essentially same principle
Asiriya ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 11:27:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe. What was my actual issue? I think when it happened it was unexpected and I presumed it had been written in to cover for Carrie's death. I thought it was great. Here's Ren about to kill his mother as he did his father and he can't. Then it happens anyway, and for the rest of the film he has to deal with the consequences.
We see carry frosting over, the life leaving her - fine. It's a decent way for things to end. Then suddenly the Force is allowing her to survive in a vacuum and letting her do something that we've not seen before. It might make sense, she's reasonably light and in an environment with no resistance... But it's too much suspension of belief. One of them might be ok, "oh she's used the Force to enter a coma!", or she's used the Force to maintain the atmosphere (maybe...), but both? It made her seem too powerful, too much like a God. Jedi are meant to be fragile, vulnerable, natural.
suss2it ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:38:21 on December 17, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You think that scene was added in because of Carrie's death? Then what about all the scenes with Leia that take place after that?
Asiriya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:04:56 on December 17, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No... While I was watching I thought this was their solution. Evidently it wasn't.
ThanosDidNothinWrong ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 20:05:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It really doesn't take much to pull yourself with no gravity or air resistance
Asiriya ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 20:39:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe.
Fnhatic ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:25:20 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was particularly how they showed it. I mean if they had showed her using the force to hold a pocket of air or something, maybe. But she literally just floated through space in an upright position. Like if you squinted you'd be able to see the strings.
JoffreyWaters ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:52:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
We've known this for a couple of years because of the books and comics.
TheWorldIsAhead ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:41:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Don't really care what happened in random comics and books.
JoffreyWaters ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 19:46:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They've been better than the movies so far.
Professional_Bob ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:46:59 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And blow up a huge battle station from the inside in a vehicle you've never driven.
Fakayana ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:26:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
As someone who actually didn't mind the scene at all, I think it would be better if it's like closer to Luke's fake-out death when he was shot by the AT-ATs. Have some big smoke to imply she died, then reveal that she was able to make a force shield at the last second to keep her from suffocating. At least that way she only had to walk to the airlock, not fly towards it.
FireTrickle ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:01:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Leia survives been frozen and choked out in space, but Luke the actual Jedi evaporated after an intense meditation?
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 01:16:13 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Where he projected himself across star systems.
Anyway, like Obi Wan I don't think he died so much as became one with the force
FireTrickle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:46:26 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Like today tried to teach him with the xwing in empire
Size matters not.
Luke even explains the force is bigger than us it runs through us, Jedi battle meditation in the sith comics never killed anyone it just required great concentration, and nobody ever melted in the sunset from it, that was done across star systems aswell
Also that rock seemed to be a amplified meditation spot
They could have just sold it a bit better
paultheschmoop ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:36:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
yes, well, "cheesily flying through space" is pretty dumb regardless of Carrie Fisher's mortality as well lol
Fnhatic ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:23:13 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Since you're so concerned about a 'fitting end', all I have to do is say six words.
"I'm a leaf on the wind."
A dramatic hero's death isn't always what's needed.
TheWorldIsAhead ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:13:06 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not sure what point you are trying to make here, what is not "dramatic" about being blasted out a window or impaled through the chest by reavers in the darkest hour?
Wash was killed to try to make you think Whedon was killing them all in the final battle, which had a purpose. Also Wash existed for 15 TV episodes and is not a pop culture icon like Princess fucking Leia. What I'm saying is that after Leia surviving all the shit in the OT and getting a "happy ending" in the end of Return of the Jedi it would be a betrayal to just have her blasted out a window later because Carrie Fisher died. I'm not talking about any dramatic heroes death. I'm saying she should die at peace like Luke. It's more than enough that out of our childhood heroes Han died a tragic death.
Having a time jump, then announcing her death in the opening crawl of ep.9 (and starting on her funeral) is easily the best way to go.
imbasicallyhuman ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:53:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was just a dumb scene in general. I cringed so much when she started reeling herself back in.
flamingeyebrows ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:40:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That was one of the greatest moments of the movies. She is a skywalker. We didn't cringe when Luke the farmboy noscope a deathstar why is the common reaction when Leia does similar be a cringe.
imbasicallyhuman ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:51:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's not the fact that she used the force to survive, it just looked like a scene from Superman but with an old woman and poor visual effects.
flamingeyebrows ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:57:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
CGI was great. You realise the effect is supposed to show frosting cold in space, right? You say old woman, I say General fucking Leia showing she is a damn Skywalker too.
imbasicallyhuman ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:16:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I know what the effect was supposed to be, and there were plenty of times throughout the film that I enjoyed the CGI, but in that particular shot it looked off to me. It would've been a magical shot to end Leia with, but when she was pulling herself in it looked weird, imo.
radol ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:18:26 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes I think this is good death for her. She was clearly not important afterwards anyway (if she was dead you would not even have to change most of the dialogs and after that part she contributed basically nothing important) and it would make whole movie more relatable- so that some physics rules apply for everyone and there is no plot armour for being blown out of a spaceship.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 01:16:46 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She is literally a Skywalker, who walked through the sky to survive
roguemerc96 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:21:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
One re-shoot and she could have been the one to make the sacrifice. Have Leia stay on board, use a Stand In and Purple Hair with an over the shoulder if you need to. Cut the bridge scene and just keep the rest of the shots, bam, Leia gets that bad ass scene, and it doesn't feel so empty.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:14:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
prepare for zombie CG Leia Poppins
Jezamiah ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:09:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was already feeling emotional at "Nobody is ever gone"
SneakyBadAss ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:30:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You could hear collateral facepalm in my cinema when this scene happened.
Jay-Em ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:27:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think you have to remember that this film was 90% done by the time she passed. The plot we see of her is the one that was planned when she was expected to live to film Episode IX. I'm guessing Rian and the team thought that writing her out of this one via reshoots or whatever couldn't have been done satisfyingly.
Obviously if they'd known, the optimal ending for Leia could have been for her to take Holdo's place on the ship than goes to lightspeed right through Snoke's flagship. But they probably couldn't have shot in a good way after her passing.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:17:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Was watching Mark Hamill interviews on YT earlier and he said Harrison Ford was supposed to be the focus of the first film, him the second, and Carrie the third. Supposedly the writers had to change up a lot of the third due to her death.
wicket42 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:49:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Feels to me a bit like Rian said.....ah that can be JJโs problem.
wanabejedi ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:28:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You must realize that the whole movie was already in the can when she died right? What I'm saying is that you are coming at this with the hindsight of her real life death and thinking that they should have given her a proper send off and killed her in the movie when in reality at the time they were thinking she would still be around for the next one. You do realize that?
joed2605 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:21:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I liked that. It was far too predictable to have her die off and the initial point where you're meant to think she died was kind of terrible until she uses the force to come back. I'm not mad about it unless they really fuck up her character in 9. Right now I'm just impressed that they've taken on the challenge of having a living character in a film they've yet to film with a dead actress. CGI might be the answer though, Tarkin was pretty convincing in rogue one imo and young leia was decent too.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:18:56 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Extremely unlikely they'll do this. After her kind of cameo in Rogue One she said that she would never want any actress to have to wear her face again. So if she is in the next movie it will very likely be a Recast
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:26:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Or, I'll say something possibly crazy here; they'll recast her character...
joed2605 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:27:06 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well obviously that would be the normal choice but they didn't recast Tarkin or Leia in Rogue 1 and Ep 9 will almost certainly have a bigger budget so it's within the realms of possibility. She has such an iconic face, it would honestly look weirder with a different actress than CGI imo.
jumpyg1258 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:48:14 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That scene almost made me outright boo the movie in the theater.
Fnhatic ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:22:07 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought her getting sucked into space was their way of killing her off. And they should've, because she contributed nothing to the movie.
Nope then she floats back like fucking Space Jesus.
pan_de_leche_flan ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:32:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think part of it was that they had finished making the film before Carrie died.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:01:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, I believe she died after the completion of principal photography, so there was no real chance to factor her real death into the storyline.
Eruanno ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:16:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, uh, I hope they have plans for how to handle her in the next movie.
SoulofThesteppe ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:26:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Perhaps she retires, kind of like Brian in Fast and Furious.
Revenant1313 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:55:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Episode IX was supposed to have her play a prominent role but that has been thrown out the window because they said that they would not digitally recreate her for the movie.
JRockstar50 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:54:45 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Would have been fine if Luke kissing her forehead after saying "Nobody is ever really gone" had been her last moment onscreen
elbenji ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:42:51 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
We did have a good send off
The last line from luke was her sendoff
pink_lemonad3 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:42:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
they're going to use cgi
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:43:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She was alive when the film was written and filmed.
churly92 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:26:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm positive Ep IX will begin with a very special and touching funeral for her.
RubberDong ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:49:04 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
that is the real twist.
reminds me of that dude from the hottub time machine movie. where they knew he was going to lose his arm but it never happened.
Mortos3 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:38:54 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah there were a lot of moments that felt like they were setting it up for an emotional goodbye. Like Luke telling her 'people never really leave' (can't remember the exact quote).
Linubidix ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:17:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I counted four death fake-outs. Or at least four characters with fake-outs. Leia with the spaceship, Luke with the gun fire, Fin about to sacrifice himself, and Rose to sacrifice herself.
I'd stopped caring for the most part by the end.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:54:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah. Fuck them for not being able to see the future or massively reworking a finished film because the actor died!
Whiskersgrower ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:20:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Super Leia was what ruined it for me.
The franchise was ruined with the prequels but now is pure garbage.
NuclearAdobo ยท 77 points ยท Posted at 17:21:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's disappointing because nothing is set up for episode 9. It finished exactly where it started with all of the extra stuff answered (Snoke,rey's parents, luke stuff). I guess episode 9 will be just one giant battle.
[deleted] ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 19:22:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yup, after Ep7 we had questions that needed answers, but after Ep8 there isn't really anything to make us come back for Ep9
needs_more_dill ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 05:33:14 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And the answers were largely unsatisfactory.
"Who's snoke? Dead, that's who!"
"Who's Rey's parents? Some poor people, also they're dead too, so we don't need to discuss it further!"
"What's up with Luke? He's Character Archetype 43A, 'cranky-old-man-who-sees-the-light!' And also he's dead!"
NeekoPeeko ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:34:43 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously. I don't give a shit about any of these characters, and nothing has been set up for the next movie. I didn't like The Force Awakens very much but at least it had interesting ideas and made me want to see where the story would go.
RobertElessar ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:24:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
it finished back in A New Hope.
mthrndr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:14:58 on December 17, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Star Wars Revolutions
MurWur ยท 74 points ยท Posted at 20:46:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Look I was in that group of people that thought all the Snoke theories were ridiculous and I hated that people actually wanted him to be Plagueis or even Mace Windu BUT with that being said, I'm incredibly annoyed that we never got to learn anything about him at all and his death was underwhelming.
NeekoPeeko ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 01:39:15 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
His entire character served no purpose. Hell, he's not even responsible for turning Kylo Ren to the dark side apparently. Now we're two movies in... and at this point I'm not even sure who the main antagonist is. Hux would have been a good one but he's been boiled down to some bumbling idiot who answers to Ren. Kylo Ren is being continually set up as a sympathetic characters, so he's not the big bad guy. What's going on with these movies and why should I care anymore?
_Doggiedoggiewhatnow ยท 325 points ยท Posted at 13:56:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I felt like Rose kissing Finn came out of nowhere. A lot of people groaned during that scene. I just wish they didn't include that specific scene.
BubbleBathGorilla ยท 121 points ยท Posted at 19:02:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No Finn don't go and kill yourself and destroy the First Order's huge weapon that'll fuck everybody up! Let me save you, get myself killed, and leave that huge weapon in tact. Hope Rose is fully dead
Akranidos ยท 44 points ยท Posted at 00:53:20 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
she is totally not
blaquelotus ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 22:19:13 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That was honestly my chief complaint with the movie. Finn had a really powerful scene coming up with his suicide attack on battering laser. I was surprised they were going to take him out like that but I was with him. I was prepared for it. Then she crashes into him (which could have easily killed him hell it almost killed her). It jerked me out of the moment and then you find that she basically risked him, and the Resistance over a crush.
I get the message they were going for and I get that this movie was very message driven (which I largely appreciated), but that one I think backfired a bit.
BubbleBathGorilla ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:19:45 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was such a cool scene until it that happened and ruined it all leaving everybody thinking "oh for fuck sake"
dev1359 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:39:41 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She's still alive at the end of the movie.
MrNature72 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:05:31 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But don't worry, no one dies anyways! Eugh.
highway_robbery82 ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 14:40:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was established when they first meet that there's a bit of celebrity worship going on, so I suppose it was building on that. I do think one of them should've died though.
DoubleSteve ยท 131 points ยท Posted at 16:13:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's an incredibly diplomatic way of saying Rose should have died.
[deleted] ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 17:16:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'd have preferred Finn. He's just so very pointless, and a nice two film character arc from scared storm trooper to full rebel in his dying moments would have been nice
imthebest33333333 ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 17:16:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Finn should definitely have died there. They wanted the emotional payoff of a heroic sacrifice scene without actually killing off anybody.
Osmodius ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 20:59:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was kind of hoping that Finn would just do the "Woah, what the hell, no thank you" and they hadn't just magically fallen in love out of thin air.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 23:38:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Osmodius ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 00:00:29 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well we saw him somewhat fawning over her on the falcon at the end. So I'm not holding out for a lack of lame romance subplot.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 01:22:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean she did still save his life and essentially sacrificed herself for him. She doesn't deserve to be ignored.
_Ardhan_ ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:25:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"I just stopped you from potentially allowing our friends several minutes of time to find an escape, let's kiss as the First Order marches forward to murder them all!"
ixvael ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:38:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I also don't understand how Rose managed to catch up to Finn considering he was going in a straight line at full speed, both of them miraculously evading all the AT-AT lasers.
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 19:35:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Everything with rose was pointless.
Finn is also a pointless character, Finn and Poe should have been one single character from the very beginning.
Leckere ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:31:13 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thought that scene had provided the definitive counter-punch to Marion Cotillardโs terrible death scene in The Dark Knight Rises, but unfortunately Rose had to survive. (But seriously, that scene was fucking hilariously bad.)
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:54:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Where are you from? Where did you see the film?
tm95835 ยท 245 points ยท Posted at 13:02:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
General Hux went from Nazi leader to punching bag overnight. Domhnall Gleason should be pissed
The_h0bb1t ยท 121 points ยท Posted at 19:06:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I really felt kind of salty about this. He was just had this love-to-hate charm going on in TFA, and now he's just there to be the butt of jokes from the characters around him.
Ryuzaki3421 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 01:53:41 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Imagine if he ends up killing Kylo. Give him a taste of betrayal. It would be awesome
Discuslover129 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 10:02:30 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He was going to when he found kylo knocked out in snokes room, he went to grab his blaster but kylo woke up.
[deleted] ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 21:53:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You mean general Hugs?
ThirdRook ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:24:51 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes I am holding for General Hux... Hux with an H?
ColeTrickleVroom ยท 33 points ยท Posted at 22:29:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He was a bumbling, clumsy, incompetent idiot in this movie instead of a menacing villain. It was stupid.
crshbndct ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:58:26 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Arenโt most Marvel villains a little bit like that?
Dijeirusan ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 22:32:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I watched the double screening last night, and he went from Evil Nazi to Comedic Foil in the span of 30 mins.
stabbybit ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 01:06:32 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
30 mins? Poe starts clowning on him at the 3 minute mark, lol.
Dijeirusan ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 01:11:37 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I meant it was like 30 mins between his last major scene in TFA, the interval between films, and then opening of TLJ. But yeah you're right.
stabbybit ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:41:53 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ahh, that makes sense. Honestly, I wasn't a fan of TFA. I think I saw it 1.5 times. Once at the press screening, and half a time when my neighbor was watching it when I came over.
camzabob ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:12:26 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think they meant that Hux's last appearance in TFA is 27 minutes before the end.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 07:45:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Can you imagine them treating Tarkin like that? The empire has its sniveling worm members yeah but the men in charge are tough and cold. How am I meant to feel any menace from them when the moment Hux appears he is prank phone called like moe syzlak!
JimJimmyJimJimJimJim ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 00:52:06 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Iโll bet this trilogy ends with Kylo saving everyone from a pissed off Hux.
smitcal ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:33:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My first complaint as soon as I left the cinema was this character.
BubbleKao ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:45:06 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just yet another awesome thing that got totally tossed out from TFA.
DontPokeMe91 ยท 293 points ยท Posted at 21:15:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Leia flying scene surely has to be one of the worst scenes in this new trilogy. Unbelievably tacky and awful.
[deleted] ยท 126 points ยท Posted at 22:57:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
For me it's one of the worst scenes from all Star Wars movies. Sure, there was Jar Jar. But Jar Jar was supposed to be stupid.
That ridiculous scene was supposed to be a powerful moment. It looked so fucking awful.
For me it was 10 times worse than the Marta scene.
smitcal ยท 42 points ยท Posted at 00:00:10 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME
Miposian ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 03:38:22 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When Phasma's helmet got smashed I came so close to shouting "MARTHAAAA!" in the theatre.
NeekoPeeko ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 01:29:59 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously, nothing Jar Jar did made me cringe more than Leia supermanning through outerspace.... after just literally bombed to hell. She was the closest to the window she should be deader than Ackbar who I didn't know was even in this movie until they told me was dead.
MarkerBarker78 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:25:57 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Fast and furious handled Paul Walker better than this
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:56:41 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Brick and Brothers Bloom I thought Rian Johnson made more to please himself. It seems without the benefit of heavy feedback from Shane Black as on Looper or a script from Breaking Bad writers, Rian's lost touch with audiences.
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 02:55:36 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is supposed to be the first time we see Leia use the force... and they could have done it so much better.
The fact is coming right after Carrie Fisher's death make it worse
ixvael ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:39:45 on December 26, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It just occured to me that Leia could have just used the Force to make the missle not hit the command bridge. If she had enough experience to resuscitate herself in space and then fly back, she could have just as easily stopped the missiles mid-flight or redirected them Luke-style.
[deleted] ยท 63 points ยท Posted at 23:40:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
holy shit every comment is negative. Im not upset cause I don't give a shit about the movie but...damn, if Reddit doesn't like a star wars movie it must be true shit.
GiveMeACLoak ยท 63 points ยท Posted at 00:25:16 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There was some great scenes in this movie but TLJ really takes a shit on the rest of the franchise. If you think this is bad, wait a few days till the honeymoon phase wares off like TFA.
[deleted] ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 01:00:05 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was a weird experimental Star Wars movie that shouldn't have been a part of the main saga.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 01:01:13 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
how was it experimental? i have no interest in seeing it so just curious.
[deleted] ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 01:25:52 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
a lot of creative decisions and trope subverting that were risky, but ultimately pointless and a failure.
HowieGaming ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 11:46:42 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A ton of pointless shit went down and didn't progress the world further
needs_more_dill ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 05:36:21 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
it feels like they've added nothing while also removing almost everything that could've been interesting.
needs_more_dill ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 05:35:32 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And it's not even politically charged "why's-the-stormtrooper-black-and-why's-the-lead-a-girl" type stuff. It's just... straight up not that good of a movie.
The_Inner_Light ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 08:55:14 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly, it was a shit movie. Nobody has the balls to say it but it is what It is.
AndIHaveMilesToGo ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:57:43 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And I completely disagree.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:54:39 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
For me it was THE best Star Wars.
I want to cancel all my obligations and go see it again tomorrow.
I can't understand why reddit is so salty, but for seeing the ratings make me comfortable, in a "I am not alone" way.
Bin_Ladens_Ghost ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 04:01:02 on December 17, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This movie is proof positive that fans love to hate things. If people are Star Wars fans and hated both TFA and TLJ I really think there is no modern Star Wars movie that could be made that would make them happy.
PaulFThumpkins ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:32:36 on December 20, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I really didn't like TFA much, but TLJ retroactively made me care more about it and now I think I'm on board for this new trilogy. Am I turning to the fanboy light side?
Bin_Ladens_Ghost ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:09:15 on December 20, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lol maybe. I donโt donโt know about you but I was finally ready for something different. These OG characters are old. Let the whole concept die. Smoke is a vehicle to make a supremely interesting Kylo Ren. Thatโs good enough for me.
ScruffTheJanitor ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 00:27:34 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The internet's hates 1, 2, 3 and 7. Nothing new really.
archtv ยท 120 points ยท Posted at 14:07:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did anyone say "I have a bad feeling about this"? I didn't catch it.
RealZordan ยท 62 points ยท Posted at 23:03:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I did. After the opening dialogue.
Seriously: Luke quotes Han saying it when talking to Rey.
DrunkWino ยท 124 points ยท Posted at 17:47:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The audience said it right before the opening crawl.
fgdadfgfdgadf ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 20:00:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
๐
walters1992 ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 16:05:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, it also didn't end with c3po and r2d2. Just some kid with the force somehow
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 00:31:09 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously thought he was going to start batting his broom around like Star Wars Kid
[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 22:56:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think the ending was just to tell all the theorists and the fanboys. Not everyone with the force has to be a skywalker like they did with Rey.
[deleted] ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 23:16:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Literally had a whole trilogy about this. Plus Obi-Wan and Yoda in the OT.
TheTurnipKnight ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 23:36:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What I hated about this is that in the first movie Rey never ever mentions anything about wanting to know who her parents are. She only wants to wait for them so they come back for her.
MurderousPaper ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:08:33 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
BB-8 says it at the beginning, that's when Leia says "For the first time I agree with the droid." Rian confirmed this on twitter the other day.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:29:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Kylo did say follow my lead like Vader
samdenyer ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:22:56 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Pretty sure Poe said it on Crait towards the end. Can't be sure though.
justlilyhere ยท 225 points ยท Posted at 10:51:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I legit thought Luke was gonna get hyped and die from the blasters lol
Waterfall_Jason ยท 235 points ยท Posted at 11:25:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was 100% convinced the movie would roll credits the second Kylo said fire
marcins ยท 93 points ยท Posted at 11:49:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought it was going to be Luke walking out through the base door, into the sunset.
Jay-Em ยท 52 points ยท Posted at 14:56:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I was convinced we'd get the classic closing shot of characters against a background, this time with Luke facing up to the First Order. Relieved it didn't finish there.
unsilviu ยท 44 points ยท Posted at 18:58:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The way the red sand blew up, it looked like gore.
kievrob ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 23:17:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'd guess they came up with this planet having red sand underneath the salt specifically for this scene
Ep8Script ยท 36 points ยท Posted at 00:15:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And to show that Luke left no footprints on the ground.
DrSmersh ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 05:59:30 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
GOD DAMN
m0h1tL ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:59:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah a lot of surprises. There were moments that I predicted would happen ended up not happening, and things I predicted from not happening happens. In other words, what I just wrote is a sequel to the happening.
PleaseSaveTheOtters ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:31:15 on December 20, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was really hoping he showed off some Jedi mastery and force pushed AT-ATs into each other. The Clone Wars mini series has really made the jedis seem so underwhelming in the movies.
K_oSTheKunt ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 21:29:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That scene was the biggest M. Night Shyamalan twist. Such a let down.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 01:21:35 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hardly.
We'd been shown that projection across star systems was possible all movie long. It makes far less sense that Luke just happens to know where the Resistance is and flies a x wing that's been under water for a decade to help out at the last second
g0kartmozart ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:24:42 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He's fucking Luke Skywalker, he could repair his X Wing and sense Leia and Kylo's presence on that planet.
HazelRahRahRah ยท 58 points ยท Posted at 01:57:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I felt like this movie had many problems, but a key one is definitely Snoke.
Who was Snoke? It was never revealed, and I doubt that in IX someone will take a moment to monologue about his backstory. He's a complete non-entity who serves only to further Kylo's role, and yet he was initially set up as a main antagonist.
But worse than the anti-climax surrounding his death is the fact that he has no backstory, literally NOTHING. He appears out of nowhere and goes into nothingness - even a throwaway character deserves more than that.
How did he become Supreme Leader? Was he old or just scarred as fuck? We will never know - it'll probably just be a gap in lore for all moviegoers, unless you're willing to read supplemental material like books or comics, which is where all this will probably end up being explained. He's no longer relevant to the story in any way, does anyone really believe IX will dedicate any time to his background?
Why was Snoke's face so messed up? How did he become Supreme Leader? Does the First Order like electing Sith Lords for its leaders? Who the fuck WAS HE, the dude was powerful as FUCK?!
One day, someone will probably watch the Sequel Trilogy and think, 'Oh, there's Snoke. No idea what his deal is, really. He's just Snoke?'
Palpatine also came out of nowhere during the OT, you say? It's even simpler than that, he was simply a Sith and the leader of the Empire, throughout all 3 original movies. No more knowledge was really required, he looked old and dressed like a Sith, that was all there was to it.
Palpatine's nebulous background worked because during the OT we didn't really have anything to work with - now, with all the lore of the Prequel Trilogy and TV series, it's much harder to accept someone as immensely powerful as Snoke materializing out of thin air with zero explanation. There are 6 films preceding the Sequel Trilogy, can we stop pretending that it's a completely blank slate?
And even though Palpatine didn't even need it, the guy even got a whole trilogy about his rise to power. Really doubt ol' Snoke will get one of those.
The world-building in the Sequel Trilogy has truly been abysmal so far.
(Let's also not forget how Snoke's ravaged corpse was played for laughs with Hux - fucking hell.)
sateeshsai ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 10:18:19 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Even if they did, it would be pointless because he dead now
PaulFThumpkins ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:43:33 on December 20, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly we've got a galaxy with sextillions of beings in it. The idea of a superpowerful Sith Lord coming from out of nowhere makes way more sense than having him be connected to events or people we're already familiar with. I like it, makes the galaxy feel bigger.
NiceColdPint ยท 548 points ยท Posted at 12:25:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Once again, the refusal to acknowledge exactly whatโs happening in the galaxy hurts this film. SURELY some systems would be slightly ticked off that the First Order destroyed the Republic capital. Why canโt we have anything beyond Empire vs Rebels (which really makes the Original Trilogy feel pointless)?
jivebeaver ยท 53 points ยท Posted at 16:57:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
yeah, what the fuck were the alliance/republic doing for 30 years? they won the war. that an "offshoot" of the empire got enough men, munitions, and a planet-sized death star bigger than the last one. and the "resistance" - what are they still resisting? they were operating in hostile territory with secret support by the republic. well again how did the first order get sovereign territory, and with their attack on republic homeworlds there should be nothing less than a full war effort
30 years of literal (EU) and figurative (in-universe) history in star wars mythos pooped down the drain.
the best star wars media is still knights of the old republic
camzabob ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 01:09:16 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ok, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, seriously, look at my history on the /r/Starwars sub. Everyone there is praising the film for being so bold and taking brave new directions, when all I feel is, "Oh, it's just Rebels vs Evil government again, I was expecting some development on the good government." and "Oh, Kylo's evil and Rey's good, guess we'll get their big showdown in the next movie." We could've explored a more dynamic, political situation between the FO and the New Republic. We could've explored Rey and Kylo officially going against their masters and harnessing both the light and dark sides of the force, tip toeing the line together. Imagine a story about Rey and Kylo, where they both decide to abolish the Sith and Jedi. Kylo teaches Rey about the dark side of the force and Rey teaches Kylo about the light side of the force. Not only that but them both struggling to resist the temptations of each side. I don't really know how the light side would tempt them, but picture a scene at the end of Episode 9... Rey and Kylo are together and have been going on a journey with each other, learning about the balance of the force together and teaching each other. Rey has pulled Kylo from the dark a few times throughout the film. At the end of the film, Rey and Kylo are fighting something, Rey begins to really tap into the dark side of the force, full of rage and hatred towards this enemy. Think Luke at the end of ROTJ, but x10. She almost kills the enemy, but in comes Kylo, pulling her back to the light and calming her, after a whole film (Hell, a whole trilogy) of him being the one who loses his temper. Then have him pull aside Rey and send her away. Finally ending with him killing the enemy peacefully. Not out of rage, but not doing the whole, good guys don't kill, thing. While I doubt they'd use my plot, I still think that would be a really interesting story, Rey and Kylo tip toeing the line together, relying on each other.
Minscota ยท 209 points ยท Posted at 12:56:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lucas did that and people got pissed. Every attempt at expanding the universe is almost always met with hate, but I agree with you this was my least favorite and its far too small in scope for a starwars movie.
[deleted] ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 13:45:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
The Clones Wars show is loved and that expands the universe like the prequels may have been trying to. But then again that scene when the rebel signal for help and no one answers does show that maybe people don't want to get involved in endless war
Minscota ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 13:48:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I will give you that. I was talking more about the movies. The clone wars was great. I also didnt think the prequels were awful.
A-Bronze-Tale ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:09:19 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lucas had the right mindset (world building) but executed it poorly. Honestly, just have Lucas pitch you ideas and keep the good parts the man knows his shit but he doesn't have the directing chops anymore.
greeb666 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:27:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think they were as terrible as people make out either, but there are parts that are just garbage. "I have the high ground" is probably the biggest letdown I have ever experienced in cinema and I am an old fart.
TheGreatBatsby ยท 275 points ยท Posted at 13:51:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The world building in the prequels is one of the parts that garners the most praise. It's the dialogue and plot that often drawers criticism. The fact that TLJ has worse dialogue and plot, no world building, but is receiving critical acclaim baffles me.
Shhhhhsleep ยท 162 points ยท Posted at 14:39:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Holy shit Rey trying to convince Luke to join the fight was so wooden she sounded like a robot just repeating the same phrase over and over
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 21:42:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well.. That seems intentional. She believes she was a messenger.
Think Moana meeting the Rock.
oktimeforplanb ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 23:09:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was supposed to sound wooden as her asking Luke to join the fight wasnโt the real reason she was there. She was lying to herself and Luke every time she said it. Luke pulled the truth out of her, that she was there for herself, for answers and learn to about the force.
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 01:06:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I can't believe people are annoyed by this. They made it very obvious it was supposed to sound wooden and rehearsed
TheGreatBatsby ยท 61 points ยท Posted at 14:44:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes! Ugh, people cannot complain about the "sand" line after this.
terrorismofthemind ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 22:26:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"Whatever chrome dome!"
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 22:36:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That rebel scum line was also pretty bad.
TheGreatBatsby ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:31:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You know, Finn himself was my favourite part of this movie. Shame he was put in a terrible side-plot.
spursaustralia ยท 36 points ยท Posted at 21:10:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Are you for real lmao, it was no where near that bad
Ratachu ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:46:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Agree, people have a blind love for the prequels really. No line of dialogue was as cringeworthy as lines from the prequels.
Jezawan ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 23:05:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
None of the lines in TLJ were as bad as the sand line lmao. Some of Rey's lines made me cringe but that sand line is on a whole other level of awfulness.
Neknoh ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:10:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Go rewatch it, we can and we will
TheGreatBatsby ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:25:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I watched all 3 this morning.
Rey's line trying to get Luke to come back was poorly written and delivered even worse.
Discuslover129 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 10:17:18 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Her line was supposed to be wooden and poorly executed as it was a tool to allude to the fact that that's not really why she was there, and she knew that.
TheGreatBatsby ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:18:52 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why was she there?
Discuslover129 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 10:54:20 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To try and learn to understand the force and her role in the whole balance of the force/events. (Another example of how they are expanding on the actual storylines of the force as sort of a metaphysical god like being, and the ideas and backgrounds of the Jedi as a religion instead of as a group of people) The new stuff is going to be different, with more emphasis on pushing the underlying theme of the force as a whole, instead of the force just being a parlor trick and kind of forced rule as to why the Jedi are so good.
Ratachu ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:46:56 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not really. I did have a problem with it, you should watch more movies to now the diference between bad and good.
TheGreatBatsby ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 07:55:00 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ah right. I don't agree with your opinion, so I "need to watch more movies". I'm not disputing that technically, TLJ is an extremely well made film.
I'm saying that the plot, dialogue and characterisations are the worst of every Star Wars movie.
Dragshisballsz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:38:42 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
they can because its pretty bad, but they should also complain about the dialogue in this as well. just criticize bad stuff and praise the good its not rocket science.
xorangeelephant ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:31:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She said the same exposition to him 3 times
Fnhatic ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:38:18 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Huh? That was the whole point. She's trying to get Luke to come and all she can think up are stupid, shitty clichรฉs and Luke has none of it. He doesn't give a fuck about the 'you're a hero' nonsense. That's the entire reason he blows her off, because he knew that drivel wasn't why she was there. Anyone could've found him, so why her?
NiceColdPint ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:18:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, it literally just sounded read off a script unfortunately. But it wouldโve been tough to deliver properly in all fairness.
Discuslover129 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:18:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This has been referenced a few times. The dialogue here was supposed to be badly executed, as it was a lie, and she KNEW it was a lie, so she mechanically delivers drivel until luke forces her to tell the truth.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:59:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That scene was terrible. I put it down to the script, staging, and editing more than Daisy's acting ability.
Discuslover129 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:19:00 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This has been referenced a few times. The dialogue here was supposed to be badly executed, as it was a lie, and she KNEW it was a lie, so she mechanically delivers drivel until luke forces her to tell the truth.
TNGSystems ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:45:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes!! It sounded like she was reading the script for the first time!!
Fnhatic ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 03:39:35 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The entire point, in case you didn't notice, was that she was reading from a script. "Come save us, you're the hero, darkness, evil, badness, good guys, we need you!" It was all clichรฉ drivel and it's why Luke blew her off.
Mortos3 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:05:06 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think that was the point, she was repeating that at first, and Luke had to keep asking her 'yes, but why are you here' to get her to admit what she was really going through
Asiriya ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:09:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No wonder DR wants to stop playing Rey...
recoveringacademic ยท 78 points ยท Posted at 15:03:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah the review scores are very puzzling. I really don't understand the critical acclaim.
Dontshootimgay69 ยท 104 points ยท Posted at 16:01:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This movie is getting better reviews then Blade Runner 2049. I have no idea how.
Death_Star_ ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 22:56:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My take is that TLJ had impossible expectations and the only possible way to meet them was by going the TFA route and doing ESB beat for beat.
The fact that they told a new story with a new structure in the face of all that is pretty bold.
That said, I honestly left more disappointed than TFA. At least with TFA it hit the nostalgia senses. This just felt like exactly what it was โRian Johnson does Star Wars,โ and I felt the magic was gone.
Discuslover129 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 10:42:34 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't understand this the nostalgia his hard especially with Yoda and Luke. And they are actually doing work to establish the rules of the universe. With proving force ghosts strength through Yoda, and showing just how strong the force can actually be (compared to lackluster force power usage in older movies) with likes fucking crazy ass force projection. When they revealed that I was genuinely amazed with how they were retconning the true power of the force, instead of leaving it as a kind of guessing game on what the force can really do. And then rey shows her true latent talent with the huge pile of rocks, that Luke would've shit himself with trying to train with Yoda.
And the darker vibes actually lend a sort of emphasis on the BALANCE of the force, which is what the whole story is actually about at the core The dark side directly calls out to rey, and she answers it, while still controlling herself and not sucumbing. And how the force is threatened by such dwindling number of jedi/force sensitive light alignments, to balance the massive dark side of the order, it kicks force into overdrive and gives a complete random girl some of the strongest force powers ever seen Except for in Ben. All these things really drive home the fact that all these characters are really just tools being pushed back and forth by the force, to maintain balance. not to mention how it is showing us the actual backbone of the establishment of the RELIGION of the Jedi, instead of the group of the Jedi. In the next movie we can expect to see rey starting a branch of Jedi from scratch, really driving home the relgious aspect of the Jedi.
All in all it feels like they are really trying to establish an entire world of star wars, instead of being bound to the Skywalker legacy. if they handle it right we could get hundreds of different movies all of relevant star Wars material, ranging from plagieus, Revan, nihilus, all the way to future spinoffs with almost infinite (as of now non canon) material to draw ideas from. And Disney is also respecting the adult nature of the stories, and not dumbing down the violence, which gives good hopes for future xmen and deadpool movies made by Disney.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 21:44:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And Star Trek: Into Darkness got 7.8 over at IMDB, despite being a fucking abomination and almost destroying the Star Trek franchise. It's JJ. The media and his lapdogs cover for his fuckups. That's why.
TSMasochism ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 03:08:40 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I really liked the JJ Abrams Star Trek movies, but I always hated Star Trek so I take that to mean there's something very wrong with those movies.
Meatballs21 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:16:20 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This movie was not made by J.J
Trikune1 ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 17:37:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I might get downvoted for saying this, but the movie industry has a political outlook that is very left wing. No one who has seen an award acceptance speech can deny this. I don't think the entertainment media or reviewers are much different than the people they cover in that respect. I mean Ghostbusters (2016) is Certified Fresh on RT. This trilogy is getting bonus points with progressive movie reviewers because of Rey and Finn.
Also, Disney has a colossal amount of money and influence. They have vastly more money than scruples, that's for sure. Look at the debacle with the LA Times. I wouldn't be surprised if they're using their money and influence for good press.
And hype. Movie reviewers are people too. Big movie fans at that. Nothing gets hyped like Star Wars movies. They get stoked to watch them like everyone else. I bet if they waited a week or 2 after watching the movie to write a review, the results wouldn't be so crazy positive.
[deleted] ยท 35 points ยท Posted at 21:00:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I consider myself a pretty big fan, not crazy, but pretty big... and, I honestly don't see the hype with the new trilogy. The world building is a mess, the jump from 6-7 is very jarring with zero explanation.
I mean, its Star Wars, so I like it... but that's about it... I don't think they have been great movies by any stretch.
It feels so disjointed, more like an alternate timeline than a sequel.
(Hate shield activate!!) I think Rogue One is the best of the 3 Disney films. Breaking away from the Skywalker saga is what really lets the Star Wars universe shine.
DatClubbaLang96 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 03:56:00 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It seems to me though that this new trilogy (TLJ especially) is setting up for a clean breakaway from the Skywalkers, though.
The biggest shocker of the film - Rey is nobody. Not a secret Skywalker. Not the grandkid of Obi-Wan or a clone of Palpatine or any of it. She's no one special. But she's the hero of this trilogy (along with other randoms, like that slave boy at the very end).
Luke is dead. Leia's story will end in the next film. The last "Skywalker" of any real consequence is Kylo, and he's the villain of this story, with no hope of redemption.
I feel like this trilogy is a roundabout way of ending the Skywalker saga, in order to transition audiences into the post-Skywalker Era of Star Wars.
greeb666 ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 21:21:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree I loved Rogue One and I hate TFA and Last Jedi. I'd rate TFA in particular lower than the prequels even.
Mortos3 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:10:05 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree, Rogue One was great. I think it was because it had a narrower scope and clearer focus. We already knew the gist of it going in, and where the story fits in the broader Star Wars saga, so it was then just a matter of telling that story well. I think it communicated the sense of scale and dread very well with the Death Star and Vader scenes.
LittleSpoonyBard ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:26:53 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rogue One just felt really disjointed to me, and I hated how cliche the dialog became (hope hope hope oh let's all hope). And that mantra from the blind temple guard too.
I really would have preferred if they kept it grounded and a bit more stark throughout the whole film. I was expecting that. Instead we got something that just felt completely rushed and felt like they started making something serious but then got scared it was too serious so they cheesed it up a bit.
[deleted] ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 21:11:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's stuff like this that makes me think that every hater of the new films either didn't pay any attention, or just really isn't smart enough to follow a simple plot.
Ratachu ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 01:48:50 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How is this movie left-wing? The only think I can think is the anti-animal abuse thing, but thatโs is a strench. And Iโm a center-righ dude.
Oath_of_Feanor ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:30:19 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Star Wars has always been left wing, the whole style is. Sequels are even more with the diversity fest.
phasE89 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:47:17 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Holy shit how the hell could 2016 version of Ghostbusters score 73% on RT?? That's just fucked up lol
gyutop ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:06:36 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think it's the second point you had that's most influential. No sane movie critic is going to legitimately criticize the biggest Disney movie of the year. Or really any Disney movie for that matter.
Discuslover129 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:22:09 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The new movies are great TFA had a few pitfalls and they addressed most of them in TLJ. Tlj was emotional and gripping and really pushed the feeling of hopelessness and dread instead of "plot hole suicide mission miraculously works..again"
differences of opinions I guess but the new trilogy rates way ahead of the prequels, and I rate TLJ as one of the best films in the series (as good as the original)
Sp00kyScarySkeleton ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:33:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
because Star Wars! I KNOW WHAT THESE THINGS ARE.
Midnightday ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:45:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
STAR DESTROYERS!
Jezamiah ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:45:35 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
$$$$$$$
Dragshisballsz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:41:26 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
i saw blade runner and thought it kinda dragged on but was an ok movie overall, not bad but not amazing. tlg is hot garbage though. i can see why mark was all but calling it for what it is, a piece of shit. he constantly said how he disagreed with what they were doing and how they were treating his character and people just disregarded him and said he was lying, without any justification for it. even after the mess that was TFA and RO they still blindly trusted disney over one of the core members of the OT. the fact people didnt even entertain the idea that mark had a point really baffled me.
Discuslover129 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:46:36 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well the issue here is the OT really limits the whole guidelines and stories of the established universe of star wars. The moves Disney is making to expand the universe will feel out of sorts compared to the OT, because Disney is focusing on expanding into the whole universe which can extend across almost infinite amounts of years. The OT didn't plan in expanding into this larger universe, but to stay secluded to the Skywalker legacy, so they dumbed down a lot of the key story ideas of star wars, such as the religion behind Jedi, the overall idea of the force as an entire network of energy that actually reacts and responds to different stimuli, to maintain balance, and the actual scope and strength the light side and dark side can accomplish.
iwanttosaysmth ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 17:59:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I honestly thinik BR2049 is very much overrated, yeah is visually stunning and well-acted, but apart from this is just pseudo philosophical, flat unfulfilling story. And TLJ is praised because it don't pretend to be something else than what it really is enjoyable action movie. Of course it has its own flaws, maybe even plot holes, but does other movies are do not have the same problems, I mean we all appreciate Guardians of the Galaxy, Avengers and so on. Stop treating Star Wars as something different than what it really is, a space opera, an action movie
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:01:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
money and influence by the higher ups.
Death_Star_ ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:53:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I understand it but strongly agree with it.
From the criticsโ perspective, I bet many were ready to say something akin to
We got something new.
So new that it almost seems foreign and not in the Star Wars fictional universe. I thought thatโs what the standalone movies were aiming for.
Discuslover129 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:50:29 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They are expanding into the larger universe of star wars (which is not what Lucas had in mind with the OT) so the new universe is going to feel off compared to the old one. I think they are handling it amazingly and it leaves us with the potential of being entertained by all the coolest stories of the star wars universe, on the big screen, instead of just skywalkers.
MrCrickets ยท 50 points ยท Posted at 14:04:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's a Disney movie. Critics are supposed to give it good reviews.
Dragshisballsz ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 00:37:46 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
its receiving critical acclaim because they want clicks and either dont want to get blacklisted by disney/buried in bandwagon fans hate, or just love mindless marvel movie garbage which is fine but dont claim its some nuanced masterpiece. its low brow summer blockbuster mindless entertainment that you'll watch once in theatres and maybe throw on in the background or to distract your kids for a bit.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:01:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was honesty astonished by my friends' reaction when we got out of the movie to hear that they all loved it. It was by no means a bad movie, but the writing was astonishingly stilted and dull for a good third of the movie.
greeb666 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:19:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I don't get why people like this movie so much, it feels like there wasn't much point to it.
ylteicz123 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:51:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I liked that the movie seemed to be darker than the other star wars movies, people died all over the place, crazy missions had consequences and even failed. I also enjoyed Kylo Ren and the first order general a lot more in this movie than the last one. It just felt like they took some risks, while in TFA they didnยจt take any at all.
The rest of the movie was pretty dogshit tho, but its above average like a 6 or 7 out of 10.
Rey is kinda boring, Luke's death and story was confusing and turned out underwhelming, Finn and that asian girl story should have been cut from the movie.
greeb666 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:34:40 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
r1 was really dark I loved it. TFA and this one meh. The Mary Sue aspect of the main good guy characters coupled with the "lets kill of everyone from the original trilogy in meaningless ways" really gets to me.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:40:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I saw it with the critical adulation for the ANH copy that was TFA but it's apparent now: we live in the era of fake reviews.
TheGreatBatsby ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 17:46:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I won't lie, I enjoyed TFA. Yes it was very safe and by-the-numbers, but I had a good time (despite being displeased with the state of the galaxy - Rebels v Empire, Han a smuggler, Luke turning his back on everyone).
TLJ has actually made me dislike TFA in retrospect.
Awesometom100 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:37:46 on December 26, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I know this is super late in reply and all, but it's a lot like the second matrix movie when it came out. People thought it was great and asked a whole lot of questions, but when the third one came out and just threw all those questions away, it made the second one look awful in retrospect.
Mintfriction ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:24:13 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well people loved the movie where the first conversation between is main character is: do you have a boyfriend?
TheGreatBatsby ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:55:27 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
...?
Mintfriction ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:06:09 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Force Awakens, after they get to millennium
maverickps ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:14:38 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Criticize Disney and be banned for life from screenings I guess. How many AAA games only get scores of 8.5-10
-Shia-LaBeouf- ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:25:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I just can't agree with the saying that this movie has worse dialogue and plot than the prequels. Really difficult for me to agree with. Yes, there was some poor dialogue in TLJ but all of the Luke dialogue. The Kylo-Rey dialogue, and even the ach-to dialogue was fine. The plot wasn't the greatest but it sure beats anything that the prequels put out. I especially liked the evolution of the Jedi religion although I wasn't too fond with the link it tried to make with real world religion and their perceived flaws. I enjoyed the depiction of the failures in the cycle of master-student as well here and how failure to trust by Luke was a leading mistake. Didn't enjoy Poe or the whole plot surrounding the space battles.
But yeah overall I don't see how this even comes close to being worse than prequels. I might have to give it a second watch though.
Asiriya ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 20:12:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nothing in the prequels was as slow as this. Anakin and Padme in AotC, maybe.
What evolution? We didn't learn anything new?!
Yes, this was the best part of the film.
Yes, this is why the film is trash.
[deleted] ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 21:12:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA
Minscota ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:52:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Most movie critics get paid and favorable treatment for good reviews. It doesnt shock me at all.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:25:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
WB must be short on cash. They can't afford to pay any of them.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:25:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
or they just enjoyed the movie.
paultheschmoop ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:08:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Comparing the dialogue in this movie to something out of the prequels is dishonest and a large exaggeration
Great dialogue? No
Prequel-esque? Lol
TheGreatBatsby ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 17:30:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rey trying to convince Luke to come back was so cringey. Then you had Finn and Rose not knowing how it was possible to track through hyperspace, only to then devise a solution.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:12:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's literally not what happened. It was Finn saying that there's this thing, followed by Rose pointing out that well, they could do it like this, and everything snowballing from there - only for them to fail in the end anyway. Why didn't you pay attention?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:09:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you honestly think that this is true, there's really no amount of explaining why the prequels get hated that'll make you happy.
TheGreatBatsby ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 21:24:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I know why the Prequels are hated. I used to try to ignore them myself.
The Last Jedi did not have good dialogue about the plot was incredibly thin. People can complain about trade negotiations all they want, TPM has characters actually move forward. TLJ was a film in stasis.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:36:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
TheGreatBatsby ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 21:44:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Qui-Gon: Alive -> Dead
Obi-Wan: Apprentice -> Knight
Anakin: Slave -> Padawan
What the fuck happened with any of the characters in TLJ? What did Rey learn on the island with Luke? The entire Resistance plot was just.. nothing. They were on the run the entire movie, holed up in a base, then on the run again.
TLJ undoes the entire OT in the most disrespectful way. The Prequels have their flaws, but at least people recognise them. The fact that this film is sitting at 94% on RT is shocking.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:35:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
LittleSpoonyBard ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:31:15 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Even the MMO gets praised for its story (especially Agent and Warrior), it's just everything else about it which was lackluster.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:23:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He did it badly. It's not the very idea of doing it that's any damn issue. People had no problems with overlong dialogue about the state of the world in Lord of the Rings.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 13:43:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because fan boys seem to want the same old thing yet complain when something new gets a shot.
astraeos118 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:03:18 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wait, youre saying that you like The Phantom Menace more than this movie?
Its that bad?
Discuslover129 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:09:26 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Quite the opposite for me, I thought it was one of the best films so far. It was emotional and gripping and visually pleasing, as well as showcasing that Disney won't be dumbing down the violence.
And the overall feeling of failure and desperation instead of the half baked suicide missions actually working, made it a lot more down to earth and realistic struggle. And they are setting up rey to be quite powerful.
When they revealed Luke wasn't really there, but was projecting a force ghost, and his MOVEMENTS were extraordinary using the force to guide his movement. I got super excited. they are taking the force to new levels of power with the new trilogy, and its great. The balance is off and the force is trying to correct it with a surge in tbe force. We could be in store for a fight scene of mustafarian proportions between rey and kylo, and with the added visuals and force strength, that is exciting.
The whole rose and Finn part is bullshit but that's the only part i disliked.
Jay-Em ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 14:33:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah. Palpatine schemed for decades to gain control of the galaxy, but Snoke is able to do the same out of nowhere simply by taking out the Hosnian System? How did the First Order subdue the rest of the galaxy? If you're going with that, at least give us a hint of backstory for Snoke.
-Badger2- ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:48:08 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think the first order has captured the rest of the galaxy yet.
RobertElessar ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 13:21:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because Abrams is not creative and he's not a good enough writer to think of something different, just easier to make rebels vs empire which it literally became at the end. And we will get A New Hope every 2 years until the end of time.
Ratachu ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 13:57:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This movie was written by Rian Johnson not JJ
iigloo ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 14:39:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, but it must take what was done in TFA and run with it.
Asiriya ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 20:15:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
While I agree, I disagree. We never get the sense that the First Order is a big threat in TFA, suddenly in TLJ they're the dominant power in the galaxy. Rather than accepting the Resistance's help and rallying around, the Republic apparently splinters after the loss of a single system. First Order must have been massively damaged by losing SKB, it was what made them so dangerous, and required a lot of manpower to maintain. Losing that should have done incredible damage to them, on par with the loss of the Republic planets and fleet.
I think Rian should have made this film about Cold War conflicts. It would have been timely and made sense - two galactic superpowers wounded and recuperating.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 22:43:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, this is what I disliked the most. It just went back to empire vs rebels. If they create a new Death Star in the next movie I will lose my shit.
Asiriya ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:02:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hehehe.
I don't care anymore. Fuck Disney.
I miss George :(
Ratachu ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:50:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So? You wanted Rian to destroy everything JJ did? Do you wanted trade disputes?
Asiriya ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:16:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes. Please god, destroy all he did.
tlvrtm ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:37:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's your main takeaway from this film? Not the chaotic messy plot and odd character motivations?
NiceColdPint ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:23:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Those too, of course.
lowrider88 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 13:45:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is one of the main gripes...itโs Star Wars and itโs meant to be about different planets and characters not two ships flying through random space for the whole movie and Rey following Luke fishing and milking space cows... show more of the scope of the galaxy and how itโs affected, show who the resistance โalliesโ are... just felt like very low stakes.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:32:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
On your last point, this whole movie is about getting across that they have no more allies. After the first order took out the republic the universe turned over in defeat, everyone you see on screen is the last of it all. Canto Bight was an attempt at showing a new side to star wars while also saying that the wars we've been following throughout these films mean nothing to the galaxy as a whole, it'll continue on regardless of who is leading and it doesn't bother their way of life. It's a world that's giving up on fighting. The single focus of two ships in space is a risky one and I agree I enjoy exploring the galaxy more but this is the second act, it's the lowest point and we need to see how fucked they really are before they can pull it back together in the final part of the trilogy. I think the film did that well, the ticking clock scenario helped us really understand that it was the whole of the resistance at stake. The scope of the resistence never got bigger, just tightened.
xorangeelephant ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 21:32:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well I sure am glad that the wars mean nothing at all, really gets me invested
NeedLessAids ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:37:08 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Or maybe the galaxy is completely terrified that they destroyed an entire system? Yeah, alderan was destroyed but everyone knew that wasn't all of the rebellion.
DoubleSteve ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:35:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The first movie of the new trilogy already set this in motion, so I don't see how the second movie could have changed things. I'm guessing people aren't happy with the empire re-emerging, but they're also not eager to jump in front of a train that seems to be plowing through all resistance โ planets included โ and retaking the galaxy. With the events of this movie the rebels have significantly bloodied the empire's nose, so it'll spark the hope of victory and widespread resistance.
I do agree we already saw this in the previous trilogy, so repeating the same larger arc just made the achievements made in the original trilogy seem meaningless. It was a mistake to go down that road once more in such a obvious manner.
thesirenlady ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:18:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I've been coming to terms with completely letting the military tactics go in this movie. Every encounter is fundamentally flawed and almost makes it seem like the entire extent of the First Order is tailing the entire extent of the Resistance.
run400 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:34:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wasnt there some other Star Wars movies that highlighted the geopolitics of the Galaxy?
NiceColdPint ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:12:42 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It doesnโt have to be to the same extent as the Prequels but even so.
NeekoPeeko ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:28:27 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
At this point the
rebellion,new republic, resistance is like 10 people on the Millenium Falcon, and theempire, New Order is all standing outside that gate... Honestly the stakes don't seem very high anymore for the galaxy because both sides are tiny and incredibly stupid..PavlikNej ยท 334 points ยท Posted at 14:55:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Can someone explain to me how is the rebellion organisation contains 100 people all around? And they have no allies. Like really? What about, I don't know, the New Republic. From what I understood from the last movie, Galaxy is ruled by Republic because, you know, Empire was defeated. And General Hax and Snoke is just small force of extremists. Who rules the Galaxy? What was the point of the Original Trilogy if 30 years later Rebellion is represented by 100 die hard fanatics?
highway_robbery82 ยท 90 points ยท Posted at 15:12:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I haven't read any of the tie-in novels, but I think the New Republic ruled over the galaxy, while the First Order were gathering strength/resources out on the fringes somewhere. The Resistance were a tiny off-shoot from the Republic who, under Leia's command, wanted to take a more direct, hands-on approach to dealing with the First Order. The Republic and it's fleet were all destroyed by Starkiller Base in The Force Awakens So... I guess no-one really rules the galaxy at the moment, because the capital, senate etc were all destroyed. The First Order intended to slide into the power gap they created.
PavlikNej ยท 73 points ยท Posted at 15:21:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Surely not all fleet was on those several planets that got destroyed. But it would be nice if the movie addressed it. Considering that the First Order suffered pretty heavy losses at the end of TFA. But somehow First Order has the most amazing tech ever but Rebellion has 3 ships and a dream.
Meeraskan ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 16:47:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In the novels its stated that Mothma and other Rebellion leaders rapidly demilitarized the Republic due to the galaxy's fear of a strong military and exhaustion from decades of war. So it's likely that the Capital Fleet guarding Hosnian Prime was a major portion of the standing republic fleet, and likely it's senior command (not even counting the command structure that got obliterated with the planet). Plus, it's very likely a lot of star systems were like "not another war. For god sake" and just refused to take part in anything/surrendered easily.
RobotWantsKitty ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 21:44:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She dismissed 90% of the military. Maybe in Disney's world with rainbows and butterflies that never happens, but in any other semi-realistic universe she would have been instantly overthrown for such an asinine move.
Meeraskan ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 22:49:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, that's a pretty large number. But the galaxy had, in one lifetime, fought two galactic civil wars at the cost of trillions of lives, and seen a dictatorship rise, dominate, and fall. Planets were annihilated, cultures displaced and whole peoples wiped out. I'd be for no massive military after that. For an interesting comparison: Post WWII - the US demobilized nearly the same amount, about 83% of their military.
RobotWantsKitty ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 23:22:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Demobilized is not the same as outright disbanded.
There are so many problems with Mothma's actions, I don't know where to start. The Republic is absolutely gigantic, and without the military it would be impossible to ensure peace on all planets. Previously, the Jedi saw to that, as warriors and diplomats, but they were wiped out. Secondly, they were aware of the remnants of the empire still remaining, disarming to such a degree leaves you defenceless against such an organized foe. Next up, suddenly your military industry stops functioning, which is very bad for the economy, not to mention, a lot of people suddenly finding themselves without a job, civvies and soldiers both. There were entire planets dedicated to building military space ships like Kuat and Mon Cala. Repurposing them all to something else would have been an impossible task. Oh, there's also the notion of the brass being unwilling to lose their cushy positions, funding and power, while probably being ideologically against the disarmament.
TheVechtersbaas ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:22:35 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You are 100% correct. But you are thinking about it all too much. Disney doesn't care about story or logic. They don't think about it the way you do, sadly.
RiceandBeansandChees ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 20:38:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You're trying to apply logic to this. The writers aren't.
highway_robbery82 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:31:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe there are a few ships elsewhere (who might respond to the call for help Leia sent in TLJ) but think the implication was the fleet itself was destroyed. The First Order lost a lot on Starkiller Base but I suppose that was only part of it, Poe or Leia mentions the dreadnought ship in TLJ as though there's more than one so guess they have more than we've seen. I'd also like much more of the wider political state to be addressed in the films, there was a deleted scene or two from TFA but even they didn't add much.
xorangeelephant ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:38:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I read the opening crawl about the First Order being super powerful and in control and was so confused
RawerPower ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:42:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They buy it from The Collector.
eXclurel ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:43:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That was the biggest flaw of TFA. It didn't show the impact of the destruction of the planets.
Dragshisballsz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:12:33 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
the entire fleet of the new republic was destroyed, they had no idea that a laser planet was being built by the same people who had ruled the galaxy before them who also built two giant death lazers? whoever came up with this story is retarded and whoever greenlit it is braindead.
RubberDong ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:53:22 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
why would you need to rule the galaxy when you got hoverboards and lightsabers?
Seriously...everyone can be happy.
pew pew pew...
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:16:38 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The opening crawl says โthe first order reignsโ
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:09:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Didn't they essentially blow up the seat of the New Republic in the Force awakens?
hopeless_dick_dancer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:50:39 on December 19, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They did.
Jobr321 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:45:03 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The worldbuilding is pretty lackluster in the ST so far, say what you will about the prequels but they got that part right.
FashionSense ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:20:13 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
did you not read the opening crawl? it explained, in very explicit terms, that now that the Republic was destroyed in TFA, the First Order rules most of the Galaxy.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:44:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The republic at the time of TFA is not at all what it used to be back in the day, its more or less a small rag-tag group of worlds that switch the ruling planet on a certain timeframe. Most of the Galaxy is kind of independent. When Hosnian Prime was destroyed, it killed pretty much all of the political power the republic had. Now there is this (rather) small republic in a cease-fire with the First Order - and they have a SMALL splinter group of rebells calling themselves "Resistance" with no real political power (especially not past the borders of the republic). No world is going to be drawn into a conflict with the new big player (First Order) for that.
StarblindMark89 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:09:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No republic, and they had allies in the outer rim. They just weren't strong allies. First order wasn't taken seriously until it was too late. Reminds you of anything?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:27:30 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The New Republic just got destroyed in the last movie
They are escaping and are the only ones that manage to escape
After seeing the massive destruction of the New Republic, any allies they had are... Hunkering down hoping they're not next. Their distress bacon was received by multiple locations but ignored by all
GregorF92 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:47:15 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did you miss where the Hosnian system was destroyed in TFA? That's where the New Republic was based. The New Republic fleet was based on Hosnian Prime when it was destroyed.
It would be like destroying Washington DC whilst all the government officials were there and then being all "wtf why isn't the government doing anything".
hopeless_dick_dancer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:50:04 on December 19, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The New Republic was destroyed by the Starkiller Base in TFA. Remember all those planets destroyed? That was a huge blow to the resistance.
_Ardhan_ ยท 44 points ยท Posted at 17:35:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A much better way to deal with Phasma would be for her to not reappear for a while after the events of TFA, only for her to return as a bounty hunter or just to hunt down Finn for making her lower the Starkiller Base shields and having her ejected/hunted by the First Order for her betrayal, motivation being revenge.
She's just such a useless, blatantly merchandising-inspired character.
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 01:20:17 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She, evil BB8, those bird creatures, those horse creatures. Half of the things were made to sell toys. Even Ewoks would be embarrassed by this.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 07:55:29 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is exactly what I was hoping they'd do with her. But nope. Just so disappointing
[deleted] ยท 890 points ยท Posted at 11:49:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I hated how this movie fell to the one of the most infuriating tropes in cinema: conflict couldโve been avoided if only characters talk to each other.
If Holdo told Poe what her plan was, he wouldnโt have sent Finn and Rose to try and disable the tracker. They wouldnโt have been caught and the transport shuttles wouldnโt have been blown up. This also meant the whole Finn/Rose subplot is completely unnecessary.
Itโs annoying when this trope shows up but the fact that it did in a Star Wars movie really pissed me off for some reason.
roblobly ยท 85 points ยท Posted at 13:24:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
even luke not telling he goes ot to stall them, i mean WTF
Mintfriction ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 01:30:29 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah that was stupid I mean what the hell, is 1 sentence and its the most important thing to say
KieranBren ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:30:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
yeah, but i think they get a pass for that one because it highlighted Poe's arc (dont be an idiot and rush into things just to blow them up, sometimes its wise to run away)
roblobly ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 01:04:44 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
yes, but retreating already finished his arc kinda.
[deleted] ยท 279 points ยท Posted at 12:11:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yep. Not to mention Poe deserved a firing squad for outright mutiny like that.
NoraaTheExploraa ยท 117 points ยท Posted at 14:42:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That would be plain idiotic for the resistance to do. Poe is clearly extremely popular among the resistance pilots. Killing him is how you start a civil war, and that's literally the last thing they needed.
[deleted] ยท 170 points ยท Posted at 14:48:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
shrug, the Resistance is down to like 10 people by the end of the movie anyway.
[deleted] ยท 73 points ยท Posted at 17:11:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Could've been 200 if they opened with the kamikaze move.
Inprobamur ยท 35 points ยท Posted at 21:12:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What's up with that? It seems that most efficient strategy would be to just strap hyperdrives and engines to large hunks of scrap and just warp them at an enemy the first moment you see them. Seems more effective than shooting them in any case.
[deleted] ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 22:04:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Inprobamur ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 23:06:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Right, the idea that such a powerful strategy was unthinkable to both parties that assumedly are veterans of countless space battles breaks my immersion.
What's even the point of building big ships or having shields if you can hyperdrive bomb half a fleet effortlessly.
frvwfr2 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 03:15:46 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This world is clearly lacking in military strategists
The bomber ships at the beginning? Seriously, your slow ass ships have to be DIRECTLY above a target? What?
Inprobamur ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 07:37:32 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Also the "dreadnought" was another in a long line of shitty imperial designs that goes up like a firecracker if you shoot it's weak spot for massive damage.
elbenji ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:04:19 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah...try that with a ship cruiser. Same concept Right?
Hanzitheninja ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:13:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I personally adored the movie but yeah I ouldnt help thinking that could've loaded those transports and ended that fight a lot quicker.
TheCrimsonCritic ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:25:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And Poe is one of them.
Fnhatic ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:29:55 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The only other guy who flew alongside Poe and was still alive is that weird alien dude and he was a mutineer too.
NeekoPeeko ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:31:45 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well... the resistance has already proved themselves to plain idiots many times in this movie so either way it should have happened
moderate-painting ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 19:54:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is a rebellion, isn't it? I rebel.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:20:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
RIP best scenes from the Rogue One teaser trailer.
noobule ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:48:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Things work differently when there's only a couple hundred people in your army
Jezawan ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:03:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah you're just gonna shoot your best pilot.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:11:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was so glad that he didn't get a "I told you so" moment, seeing him put in his place felt good.
[deleted] ยท 87 points ยท Posted at 13:36:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
BloodyLlama ยท 49 points ยท Posted at 15:46:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They never got there. Just like Luke never finished his training with Yoda. This movie seems to be giving a lot of nods to the original trilogy without resorting to outright aping it like TFA did.
[deleted] ยท 54 points ยท Posted at 18:48:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When I saw dat X-Wing under water I was like "They gonna do a montage, yes?"
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:50:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This film should have been two films. And the last one should have been three.
TNGSystems ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:25:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Jedi are not good at appearing across the galaxy and living to tell the tale.
Kosarev ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:52:56 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Jedi suck at counting.
TheTurnipKnight ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 23:48:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The third lesson was "This movie makes no sense."
FrenchCinema ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 23:18:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
honestly, the rey and luke scenes on the island were unbearable. Mary sue rey doesnt need training anyways shes fantastic at it all. Also, her acting was so wooden. This wasn't luke skywalker. Despite finn and rose subplot being pointless at least the actors have charisma to make the most of the scenes
HappyTanis ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 00:13:31 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Daisy Ridley seemed to have way less energy in this movie compared to Force Awakens. In some scenes on the island it really felt like she didn't want to be there.
TSMasochism ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 03:13:47 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because she literally doesn't want to be there.
DSQ ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:20:28 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Details please.
CanadianJesus ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:08:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Adventure Time with Finn the Human and Rose the eh, also Human.
IncendiaryPingu ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:16:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The dark side hole/mirror?
Foxion7 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:05:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What the force is
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:12:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Foxion7 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:57:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Then the third is "the jedi are vain"
[deleted] ยท 194 points ยท Posted at 13:37:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't have a problem with this. The whole point there was that Poe should have trusted in the judgement of his superior, and that he didn't need to be involved. The issue doesn't come from not knowing her plan, it comes from misjudging her as a leader and trusting in his own guns ho attitudes too much.
[deleted] ยท 59 points ยท Posted at 15:42:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yep. They were acting on their own there. Poe clearly wanted to be a leader and I think he was a bit resentful to Holdo.
The_h0bb1t ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 19:42:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You can actually see his chest pump up when they are going to announce the new General when Leia is out of comission, and then look away when Holdo is announced. People are rightfully salty about a lot of stuff in this movie, but there is something to be said about Poe's arc.
Asiriya ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 19:58:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's nothing to be said, it was executed awfully. It could have been done in five fucking minutes, not forty.
The_h0bb1t ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:41:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not saying that it was executed well, but it is one of the lesser problems of this movie imo.
Asiriya ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 20:46:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's all related. Just like SKB, all of the Resistance bullshit should have been cut out (if it's representative of their best ideas), or completely changed to something that's... good. Intriguing. Worthy of taking up half the film.
The_h0bb1t ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:20:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree completely, but it kept me more intriuged than the whole Canto Bight sequence (not that that is saying much but at least there was some sort of conflict happening) I think if they cut most of that stuff and shuffled some things around on the Resistance plot, it would've been more effective as a whole. Poe's arc itself just got bogged down with lots of other things that were happening on and around that ship.
SirFloppyDotA ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:12:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is what they were going for, but it just didnโt come across well enough.
DaLateDentArthurDent ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 18:32:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Plus bare in mind. He didnโt tell her his plan either
aulum ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:06:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I see we're on the same wavelength <3
Sammyboy616 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:32:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But she never really gives him any reason to trust her. She has no justifiable reason to not just tell him whatโs going on.
eXclurel ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:39:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah as soon as he asks what the plan is she goes "weren't you demoted?". He then asks directly if there is a plan and she doesn't answer him. All of that could be avoided if she just said "I have a plan".
Sammyboy616 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:07:33 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Doesn't even need to say what it is. Just, "I have a plan, and it's need-to-know". At least then, if Poe still went off on his own, it would be on him.
[deleted] ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 17:39:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She was a general who even Poe knew, with major victories behind her, and immediate successor to Leia. What did he have to be mistrustful about?
f1mxli ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 18:15:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Her communication skills? All she did was stare, looked like a very incompetent leader, and kept the escape plan a secret. Why do that to your comrades? I even thought she was going to be revealed as a mole and was feeding the First Order with the location of the Resistance ships
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 18:18:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She wasn't there to answer a pilots questions, especially a pilot who had just gotten a bunch of people killed despite orders from a superior. She was their leader - she had info on a need to know basis, and Poe didn't deserve the info. He felt entitled to it, but he had done nothing to make her trust him.
f1mxli ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 19:00:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe, but the rest of the Resistance did. If I was there I'd have supported Poe because he was the only one acting like he was trying to do something.
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 19:07:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They were following orders, did you notice how the mutiny was only Poe and his friends? Everyone else was going with the plan. That was the point of Poe's story - having to learn to listen, and work as a team, and not just go in guns blazing when he doesn't like how something is going.
f1mxli ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 19:18:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought blindly following orders was just a First Order thing. Poe can't listen to what's not being said.
eXclurel ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 19:41:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I am with you on this one. Rebellion was built on trust, not just following orders without question. Without that the rebellion is just another side of a pointless war.
Asiriya ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:00:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But apparently everyone else on the ship knew there was a plan, or they'd rightfully have been asking why the fuck they were just chugging along for hours, losing colleagues and being shot at.
And honestly, it would have made more sense for them to unload the transports immediately and jump the cruisers away. The First Order would have followed and left the ships...
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:26:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, everyone who was in the know followed orders. And Poe could have found that out had he not been so busy with his head up his cockpit.
Asiriya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:37:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's a shit explanation, it's not fulfilling while watching the film and the tone is completely wrong.
But really, why was Poe not in the know...? He's a former commander who is known for carrying out successful attacks and saving the day. He wants to know if there's anything he can do, it doesn't make sense to dismiss him out of hand. If he's frustrated once you tell him the plan then you handle it.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:50:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Former commander who disobeyed orders and got people killed. He was not trustworthy, and Holdo couldn't rely on a person that refused to follow orders at a critical moment.
It's like you've never been in a situation where someone has to discipline you for your behavior.
Asiriya ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:58:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's fucking bad writing is what it is. The Hux phone call? Jesus fuck, I couldn't believe what I was watching.
Why was Poe out there at all. He clearly had a plan, he knew what he wanted to attack, had the whole Resistance armed and ready, are you telling me he did that without anyone else knowing what was happening? Even if Poe ignored her, she could have ordered the rest of the fleet not to engage. I can't remember the conversation now admittedly, but Leia's the authority and could have ended the attack if she wanted to.
Why did the Star Destroyers not engage at any point during the film? They had five of them, they did nothing. They could have destroyed the Cruiser while the Dreadnought targeted the planet. They should have ensured that no one got away, but of course no TIEs bothered to chase Poe back. If they had done that, acted rationally, then no one should have survived. And that makes sense, because at no point do they have more than 20 fighters, and going against Star Destroyers with hundreds of TIEs should be suicide.
The whole thing is just so stupid.
Not recently. But if I had a high ranking colleague wanting to help and asking what's going on I think I would tell him and make sure he's on board.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:50:10 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Hahaha, now you're just going in circles cause you want to hate on the film, despite having no more reasons for it. Everything you're complaining about was addressed in the film, you either didn't pay attention, or didn't understand what you were watching.
She did tell them to not engage, but Poe closed off communications and took his fleet with him. It's the chain of command - his people thought they could trust him.
FuujinSama ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:17:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why not just announce it to everyone. Seems like an awful idea to have that plan on need to know when the whole crew is getting desperate. Give the people hope, goddamn it. Specially if they have no reason to trust you.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 04:48:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
You're under the assumption that they don't have a reason to trust Holdo, but that's just you. The film explicitly stated that she's a trusted leader.
And it's also made clear that the other captains were in on the plan - you know, the people that need to know. The film explicitly stated that the support vessels had sent their survivors to the main ship before they ran out of fuel, and it was that which allowed Holdo to figure out that they only targeted the main vessels, not the escape pods.
FuujinSama ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 10:38:04 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You know show don't tell. The movie does nothing for us to trust Holdo. Whatever plot you're imagining where the other captains are in on the plan isn't in the movie.
Besides, what sort of leader let's everyone on board go through an existential crisis instead of reassuring them there's a plan? Just make a reassuring speech. Give a viable reason why you're not telling everyone, including the cleaning crew, what the plan is!
What's the point of scaring everyone to desperation for no good reason?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 10:40:47 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's a scene where the second transport ship is destroyed where the captain tells Holdo (us) point blank: good luck rebels, hope this works.
Literally the first scene she had was this.
Either you paid no attention, refused to do so, or just are too stupid to follow along. But whatever the reason, you've missed like half the film and are now pretending that it's the movies fault.
FuujinSama ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 11:13:06 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The first scene was a reassuring speech? I didn't feel any reassurance. She was bland and not at all charismatic. And didn't reassure anyone they had a plan and explain why she wouldn't share.
And if the other captains know, why didn't she tell the captain most likely to rebel. He seems like the one person you absolutely HAD to tell or he'd jeopardize everything. Either tell him or lock him away. Don't live someone obviously discontent running around in desperation. WTF.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 11:18:50 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Other captains of the ships - so higher ranking than Poe. And they did try to lock him away, hence Leia shooting him after the mutiny. It was all about Poe being an entitled shit who didn't realize that he was over his head on this one. Watch the damn movie next time.
FuujinSama ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:39:12 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why didn't they tell Poe? Or the cleaning crew? Or ANYONE for that matter. Is ''the reason you're all not dead'' the sort of plan that should be need to know? I don't think it is, and I can't have sympathy for any organization that thinks it is.
It's the sort of situation where giving a bullshit plan that doesn't exist is a good choice, even if there was NO plan.
Of course the people who knew the plan trusted the plan. They knew it!
I'm not seeing your point. I saw the movie. I felt like Holdo acted like a shitty captain to whom respecting the chain of command is worth more than the mission.
Of course Poe acted like an entitled piss of shit, but the job of the Admiral of a ship is to deal with entitled pisses of shit. It is also to deal with desperate people that think they're being shot at in the middle of god fuck nowhere with no planets in sight, incapable of running away through light speed.
I don't see how Poe being an entitled shit removes from the fact Holdo was a shitty Admiral and the whole plot wouldn't exist if she didn't try to hide the plan from everyone for no good reason.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:55:47 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why would they tell anyone but the people immediately involved? That is the other commanders and the people who need to coordinate things. This is an asinine complaint - no military leader will tell things to a grunt simply because the grunt is feeling anxious.
And she did, she told Poe to stay away and not get involved. Even Leia, the moment she wakes up, shoots the shit out of Poe with a stun gun because she knew that he was in the wrong. The entire movie is built around him learning that he's wrong.
FuujinSama ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:12:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So the whole movie is about blindly trusting your superiors? No wonder I disliked it. I wouldn't blindly trust anyone with my life. That's stupid.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:17:14 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No... and now you're being wilfully obtuse. Poe's storyline was trusting that others might know things better than you, and not being the number one guy running around making choices for others all the time. It required him to trust in a person he didn't know, but Leia did.
The other storylines were about tearing down the establishment and blind authority. Poe was there to balance it out to show that even people with good intentions are misguided and can be wrong.
FuujinSama ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:40:38 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Dude, I get what the movie is trying to do. I just think it fails at it. If we're supposed to get that sort of character arch we need to see him disagree with the plan or be unwilling to listen. Not be told to shut up and mind their station.
This movie felt like "when middle managers get promoted to leadership: a horror story" It's like everyone in command has an hard on about following the line of command instead of matching their words to the person speaking them to get the most out of it.
But even admitting the story can work as is, with Poe needing to blindly trust his leaders (in that situation I wouldn't. I would defect in a heart beat or kill myself trying to do something rather than keep sailing to certain doom doing nothing. Only a really high degree of personal trust in someone could have me sit still and do nothing. Most people didn't have that with the vice admiral. ) but admitting that it is the correct thing to do to sit still... This plot could only work if we then had sad shots of Poe as he sees the escape pods getting destroyed and he blames himself. Crying. Acknowledging he was wrong. Then we could've the retreat be an emotional moment where he's still blaming himself and Finn goes through with his suicide, providing actual strong and emotional character arcs.
What happened had the payoff of a three year old getting slapped for stealing his sister's toy. And then he randomly changed without any emotional build up.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:41:08 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did... you watch the film?
FuujinSama ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:54:52 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hmm... I watched the movie. Through out the movie I would have proceeded EXACTLY as Poe did. So it's hard to have the arc be about how he did the wrong choice when I don't agree it was the wrong choice with the information he had (or we had).
That can still work. Well of Ascension we all follow the protagonists as they do things that eventually turn out to be VERY VERY wrong. We all agreed with them at the time. So it's a special kind of sad.
This movie is the same, we follow everyone in an arch, I'd do exactly the same as they did. And then they fail... and we get a tiny slap and no time to be sad. It just feels pointless.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:59:37 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Clearly you didn't watch the film very well, because every single plot point you've said so far has been wrong, out of order, or just misremembered entirely. You've got entire sequences either out of order, or in a way that didn't happen in the first place.
FuujinSama ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:03:33 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Fuck yourself. I didn't misremember. I just have a different definition of ''explanation'' and ''speech'' than you have.
And it's all irrelevant. I think the movie fails because in the damn movie I, and everyone I know who watched the movie, thought Holdo was being a dick and Poe was in the right. Up until the moment where the movie pulls the rug from under you and the mission fails.
And if that's the case, the whole movie could be saved if Holdo hadn't seemed to everyone (including Poe) like a dick. Not being a dick has a tendency to not cause mutinies. That simple.
The exact order of events barely matters when I'm arguing about how the movie made me feel about the damn characters.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:24:40 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you can't follow a simple logical plot, of course it matters to the overall arc. Just because your friends are dense too doesn't help.
FuujinSama ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:41:42 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Dude... Just stop. I'm not complaining the plot isn't logical at all. I'm complaining the plot isn't emotionally congruent. The plot is a huge try fail cycle that doesn't end in complete defeat. The people we follow throughout the movie aren't responsible for any of the small victories yet the movie isn't a tragedy. I think that sucks and makes the movie very unsatisfying.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:58:08 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rey defeats Kylo, resists Snoke, saved the resistance, and becomes master of her own fate.
Finn stops running and accepts his place within the rebellion.
Poe grows up and learns to trust others and work within the team, eventually with Leia's blessing leading the resistance.
Luke learns to leave his past behind and shows the true mastery of the force, attaining peace and purpose.
Really? No victories or success? Jeez.
FuujinSama ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:13:32 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rey defeats Kylo? They tied and then the ship blew up.
Everything else you mentioned are things that happened to the characters, not actions they took that led to victory. And Luke is hardly a protagonist in this movie. I mean Rey, Poe, Finn and Rose didn't win! They didn't defeat anyone or save the day using their own powers.
Now you're the one being obtuse.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:33:20 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So by your definition Empire Strikes Back is a failure too, then? Right? And how is Rey literally saving the resistance not an action that leads to victory, even if shortlived? How is Finn not making a choice that affects his entire future a win as a character? It's like you can't even comprehend anything beyond simplistic win or lose states.
FuujinSama ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:42:07 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes. Empire strikes back is a failure arc. Yet it ends with a somber mood that matches what happened in the movie.
Finn doesn't stop. The choice is made for him. That takes away from the moment. Yes, Rey lifting the rocks is a victory, and it was quite a good moment, but it was Rey lifting some rocks. Not the most interesting thing ever.
I just think the heroes didn't win their happy ending.
FuujinSama ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:42:46 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
What? "That could work" were his words when Leia wakes up and explains the plan to him. In the movie he goes up to the new admiral hoping to get in on the plan and she shoots him down in the most disrespectful way ever. Admonishing him for no reason.
An interim Admiral needs to quickly regain respect from the ground crews that the actual admiral build through years of service. I think she did a piss poor job at that with Poe. Yes, he'd been demoted. Yes she was in her right to do that. It also caused her plan to fail after the crew tried to do things their own way.
If she'd been more cordial and said something like "Hey Poe, I hear of your accomplishments. You've been demoted so I need to respect Leia's possible last act as admiral, but you should know we do have a plan. If you could try to keep the ground crew hopeful it would be of great help. Unfortunately the plan is need to know at the moment, but please trust us. And keep the pilots ready for a possible confrontation."
She is responsible for what Poe is as much as Poe himself. After all, she was his Admiral.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 12:54:30 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Literally not what happens. Leia wakes up when he's not there, and when he finds out from Holdo what the plan is - he calls her a coward and traitor, and then initiates the mutiny.
When Leia wakes up, she promptly shoots and stuns Poe.
Again - did you even watch the fucking movie?!
FuujinSama ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:02:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When he wakes up, Leia tells him what the actual plan his, and why it should work. And then he agrees.
When he finds out that she's fuelling the escape pods (hint: finds OUT! he isn't explained shit) he isn't explained the whole rationale of the plan, not even at gun point did Holdo try to explain why she thought it would work. It feels to him like a desperate escape, abandoning the only ship they have.
There is a contrast with his reaction when the whole plan is explained to him by Leia, including how they figured out the ships couldn't be detected.
tjsr ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:54:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Poe got them killed? Oh rubbish, the outcome could have been heaps different had Leia stuck to the plan rather than arguing about strategy and half-asssing a bombing run allowing Hux and co heaps more time to get a squadron of fighters in to space and react. Half the fleet could have been preserved if they had stuck to the plan and not hesitated.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:25:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, Poe got them killed by assaulting the ship head on. It was made clear that the original plan was to wipe out the forward cannons, which he did, and then escape. He got greedy, in his own words, to take down a dreadnought.
tjsr ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:18:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The entire purpose of wiping out the cannons was so that the bombers could take a run at it without getting shot down.
If there was no intent on taking out the dreadnaught, why bother taking out the cannons?
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 22:30:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They literally say in the film: the cannons are gone, now we make a run for it.
WldFyre94 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:38:07 on February 6, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The anti-air cannons were gone. Not the big anti-capitol ship cannons.
aulum ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:05:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did Holdo have the information on how they were being tracked? If not she might think there is a spy amongst them and doesn't speak the plan? I can't recall if she knew or not..
Sammyboy616 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:05:58 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't remember it ever being stated that she suspected a traitor on board, which I would also consider too important to leave for the audience to assume.
aulum ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:06:43 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My own mind filling the holes I guess :'|
RubberDong ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:51:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
we all suspected she was giving away their position though.
essentially the movie says, follow blindly the social justive warrio looking lady.
Berserker_Punk ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:31:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I actually like it. It gives Poe actual characterization from the absolute nothing he was in Force Awakens. In this movie he's overconfident, cocky and ultra paranoid.
[deleted] ยท 53 points ยท Posted at 13:02:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The thing is, if there had been open communication among them, we would have had Poe, Finn, Rose, Holdo and Leia all just sitting on a ship doing nothing for 2/3 of the movie.
IMO they should have done something different than just a 'ship outrunning a different ship' for the whole chase sequence that actually involves the main characters without a completely unnecessary plot line like the one they went with.
LatexSanta ยท 169 points ยท Posted at 13:35:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If the story requires the characters to be stupid in order for the plot to work, then it's a poorly written plot and story.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 14:05:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
LatexSanta ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:12:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
r/EmpireDidNothingWrong
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:15:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Like Looper
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:31:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously though - How many times in your own life and history have decisions been made by people who didn't communicate effectively. People who were emotional or exhausted or simply did not like the guy they should have talked to.
I am not excusing it in this film. Poe should face a firing squad as he is in a military organization and directly led a mutiny that caused many deaths.
People not talking to each other is a trope for a reason and can be done effectively. It's often a part of very well crafted movies and moves the story nicely.
LatexSanta ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:12:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I see your point.
Alas, my hatred for Disney - the cringy, girly-girl, creepy, princess breeders and mom killers - buying something regarded by me as being primarily masculine such as Star Wars - awesome space adventures - is something that will never fade.
It is an unpardonable sin, and the fact that they weren't able to rise to my very high standards, absolute heresy.
Once Mickey Mouse inevitably goes into the public domain, I will make and sell Mickey-brand sex toys.
I swear that I'll outlive this bastard cult. I will visit Disney World on the day of its closing, and taunt Disney Fans.
Their tears shall be like sweet ambrosia.
I WILL have my revenge. Then, and ONLY then, will I die satisfied.
This hate is a flame so pure, so focused, that the Devil himself recoils in fear.
Hellfire is like a soothing balm when compared to the fires of my hate.
Fuzzleton ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:13:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Holdo and Poe had no reason to share their plans with each other, though. I thought both of them had good reasons and good plans that were satisfying to see unfold
War is chaotic, things shouldn't be as neat as a narrative
I loved the movie and loved both Holdo and Poe, I don't agree that either was stupid.
Holdo had no reason to share with Poe, he's the kind of hothead who compromises the nature of her plan. He'd been refusing orders out of personal preference that day itself
Poe had no reason to tell Holda, because she was adamantly against him undermining her or taking action
I loved it
LatexSanta ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:04:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I'm glad that at least you liked it.
I'm not going to watch any of these Disney Wars abominations.
As far as I'm concerned, there are only 6 Star Wars movies.
MasterEmp ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:16:16 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And if they do everything right, reddit calls them a mary sue
LatexSanta ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:31:38 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Here's a few opinions of the matter. Make of them what you will.
I really don't care anymore what you'll decide.
MasterEmp ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:52:59 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm just pointing out the doublethink. Characters have to have flaws and that includes making bad decisions.
jarch5 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:11:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But why? Stupidness happens, a lot. It'd be boring if main characters always did everything right imo.
PlasticSoul1297 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:56:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Because then the actions of characters start to serve the plot, when (imo) the plot should serve as a platform for the characters to shine and entertain us.
OnlyForF1 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 13:17:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, it would have been real easy to come up with a plot that made Finn and Roseโs mission necessary, and not just a waste of time.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:43:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Says you, just because that is the most "reasonable" alternative, doesn't mean that the writers couldn't have come up with a more meaningful series of events. Finn's storyine felt like a total waste of time to me. All of it. Poe's education plot to become a good leader by letting go of fantasies of beign a Hero and knowing when to run was interesting, but infuriating and poorly executed imo.
Asiriya ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:02:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Bit harsh, he says this too...:
Tinymatt ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:53:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Personally I thought a search for a spy on the ship was what was going to happen after the opening crawl. A real hard look into the resistance introducing various resistance fighters.
L0NESHARK ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:55:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why are there only two options?
imthebest33333333 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:39:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This dumb 'slow chase' thing was only necessary because they needed to slow the plot down to give time for the Finn and Rose subplot.
nianp ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:42:36 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not to mention that Holdo had zero reason to explain things to Poe. He was a recently demoted captain. Even if he was still a commander, in what military force ever does a General need to explain herself to her subordinates?
TerriblePrompts ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:05:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Poe was recently demoted, and Holdo didn't trust him.
That being said, it would have been a lot smoother if they had dropped a line about needing to prevent panic, or that they were suspecting a spy. Just give us some reason why Holdo was so secretive, and it would have been fine.
DaLateDentArthurDent ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:34:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Plus Leia has just gone into a coma and sheโs just been put in charge of this already in progress escape. I canโt imagine the stress she would have been facing
woodpecker91 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:32:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, that really bothered me too. It was a good, sensible plan that sharing with the bridge crew at least would have given them some hope, that thing they kept saying rebellion was built on. But instead, the majority of the resistance had to die because Holdo/Leia wanted to teach Poe a lesson about 'valuing life' and trusting your superior officer, ignoring that most rebellions are literally born out of not blindly accepting authority.
I get it was done for plot reasons, but fuck it bothered me. Other than that, I liked it more than TFA.
aulum ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:02:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought that was the whole point. It's a trope and they turned it around on us the audience and showed us that the super special mission (which usually would work out eventually, somehow) completely fails. It's part Poe's arc it's part lore building (casino, warfare, rich folk). Yes Finn and Rose should have died,but that part is moviemaking. Is it not?
Mintfriction ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:29:49 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How is this a common movie trope? There are so few movies in which one of the main characters actually fuck up because he acts smarter. In all they are right and turn out to be heroes
GregorF92 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:44:49 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Poe's whole thing is that he does what he wants, no matter what the orders are. Highlighted by him ignoring Leia at the start and doing the bombing run on the Dreadnought, resulting in the Resistance losing all their bombers and a lot of their fighters.
Holdo telling him the plan wouldn't have likely stopped him, because he's still want to disappear and do his own thing.
tjsr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:50:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Holdo appeared to have about as much ability to command a fleet as as if a schoolteacher had been elevated in to that position through circumstances.
And in terms of likeability, she was the Admiral Cain of Star Wars.
TheTurnipKnight ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:38:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
It also made the Casino completely pointless. It achieved nothing for the story of the film.
TheTurnipKnight ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:38:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
It also made the Casino completely pointless. It achieved nothing for the story of the film. This is like screenwriting 101.
NeekoPeeko ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:31:12 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The reason it pisses you off is because it's a sign of BAD FILMMAKING
Asiriya ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:56:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because people should be bringing their A game, throwing out twenty ideas, being told to go off and find fifty more, and result in a film whose B plot isn't Hux chasing a ship for three days. FFS, half of his lines were "Are they dead yet?"
NO, unfortunately...
I've just finished the third Stormlight Archive book, and the one thing you can't call them is uncreative. Tropes are constantly being subverted, things are consistently revealed on time when it makes sense and not withheld. The result is a plot that bobs along at a satisfying pace.
As you said, by not sharing the plan they strung out a plot that didn't have anywhere to go and it brings down the entire film.
highway_robbery82 ยท 187 points ยท Posted at 13:51:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought it was a real mixed bag. Some of the most beautiful shots in any Star Wars film, and some of the most frustrating character moments too. I feel flat, and that's not the feeling I want from a Star Wars film.
That ending though.... oof. I really wish they'd cut that very final scene completely and ended it earlier, or at least switched the order of those scenes around. I know what Rian was reaching for but it felt like the wrong note to end on.
I wasn't a big fan of TFA, but after seeing it I was excited about where the story would go next. Now having seen TLJ... I can't say the same for IX. Watching it again in a few days so hopefully it'll improve on 2nd viewing now I know what's in store.
[deleted] ยท 68 points ยท Posted at 23:24:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It just isn't a very good film. We all wanted it to be great, ESB and all that, but it's not. The script is bad. The humour falls flat. It's too long. Major plot developments make no sense, and certain subplots needn't be there at all. Sometimes it looks great, but more often it looks plastic.
I honestly think its shortcomings will become more apparent with repeated viewings.
FuujinSama ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 23:42:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is how everyone in my group of friends felt after the movie.
dev1359 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:53:46 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I pretty much mostly agree with this. People can say what they want about TFA, but I loved the movie and it gave me this feeling of excitement I had walking out of the theater that I had when I watched the originals for the first time as a kid. I sadly can't say the same about this one...it just felt sort of generic in a lot of regards, even though they took the plot in a different direction.
There's definitely some stuff to like about it though, I'm just struggling with whether I feel the pros outweigh the cons or vice versa.
jiggatron69 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:20:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
At this point, Star Wars is dead for me. The Last Joke was just too much after EA skullfucked Battlefront and now this movie just takes a giant dump on the battered body of Star Wars.
spursaustralia ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 21:13:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Come on, you're being just a little dramatic there
theivoryserf ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 21:49:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Manchildren with no hobbies.
perhapslevi ยท 152 points ยท Posted at 15:01:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"I will not be Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi" - Luke Skywalker
aslost3 ยท 99 points ยท Posted at 15:11:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What are we, some kinda Star Wars Episode 8: The Last Jedi?
szamur ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 15:49:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Some straight like you, giant stick up his ass, all of a sudden at age, what, 60, he is just gonna Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi?
caliban- ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:38:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's a cultural problem, that's what it is - your average American male is stuck in a perpetual state of adolescence, you know, Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:03:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So be it. You will be the Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi.
CanadianJesus ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 22:17:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hey! That's the name of the show!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:30:40 on December 30, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So you're all ancient astronauts...fighting in some kind of Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi?
IfightGiants ยท 116 points ยท Posted at 14:38:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This was the most subversive star wars film I've watched and I don't think the studio wanted that and I think that's the root problem.
For every interesting plot point and subversion of expectations. There's a shitty marvel style quip or crowbarred in chracter/sub-plot.
A good example of subversion is how the movie uses a star wars trope were familiar with and turns it on its head. For example the hux/poe interaction at the start. we're e familiar with the imperial officer being snoddy and talking down to the rebels with great elaborate speeches it was cool to see that played with by having a poe take the piss out of him it developed both their characters and did something new as opposed to tfa that felt like it was just a repeat. Another example was the poe/Finn plan failing and them having to just flee. Usually in star wars a big dumb this just might work if we take down that one specific tractor beam, shield generator etc plan is how things get done. But by having the characters fail and have to go with the original plan felt interesting and surprising and gives gravity to these kind of plans in the future, I hope. However that's one of the only interesting thing about the rebels sub-plot the rest of that is just packed with unesacary characters. fuck the casino part would have been way more interesting if Finn and poe had went instead two characters with actual chemistry. That would have made the casino more of an interesting interactions with the environment and it would have made poe's learning not to be so brash arc hit harder cause he would have been more directly responsible for the rebel ships being destroyed when there on snokes ship. The rogue type chracter turning out to be a rogue and not a thief witg a heart of gold was a good subversion as well. The one thing I cannot fault it for was it kept me guessing at least. However that's wasted on an otherwise boring Rebel sub-plot.
BoogieTheHedgehog ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 19:20:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Goddamn I didn't realise how much I'd have liked to see Finn and Poe : space bros, performing an undercover search for a hacker in a strange alien casino.
f1mxli ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 18:26:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
BB-8 rescuing Finn and Rose was very endearing, until they cut to Finn and Rose just looking at each other like deers on the highway for comedic effect. Couldn't they just do a quick thumbs up and run like normal humanoid beings in a doomed spaceship?
EDIT: Oops. Said Poe instead of Finn.
BigSnoke ยท 360 points ยท Posted at 13:37:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You know what the biggest problem is with the ST? It doesn't feel like a continuation of the saga. Instead they've just reset everything and started again.
RobertElessar ยท 158 points ยท Posted at 13:45:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
TWICE!
astraeos118 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 02:04:31 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Say what you will about the Prequels, but they actually set up the story for the OT, so I'm really not sure what exact point you are trying to make
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 04:18:31 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The dialogue and acting in the prequels is awful but my god the world building and expansion of the Star Wars universe is so great. These new films feel like the characters are all living in a vacuum separate from the rest of the rich galaxy we got in the prequels.
astraeos118 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 04:36:23 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I cant help but think that this is a result of countless of internet fanboys screaming at how bad the prequels were in every measure for years and years and years.
NeekoPeeko ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 01:33:28 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think the point is that The Last Jedi pretty much undid most of the what The Force Awakens set up, so now we're back at pretty much zero. I'm not excited for the next movie cause there's no set up for it really. No mysteries that need to be solved, or big confrontations being built towards.
RobertElessar ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:17:42 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They reset everything twice. In Force awakens and then again at the end of The Last Jedi. Why are we doing this again?
DoubleSteve ยท 155 points ยท Posted at 15:57:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They're just using the new trilogy to get rid of the old cast one movie at a time, while wiping out all the achievements their characters did in the original trilogy. How this movie seems to be setting things up, we should end close to how the original trilogy did, but with a different cast. We can then do another rebels/empire war in around 8 years when the next main saga trilogy pops up.
Nothingaddsup ยท 113 points ยท Posted at 19:46:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And I don't understand any of it. What is the point in Ep 1-6 now?
None of what was accomplished in the films means anything now.
The Empire was destroyed, but is now seemingly being outdone by the First Order that would have a tiny fraction of the power/resources that the Empire had.
Sideous was the driving force behind most the bad in the galaxy for years. He is killed, then Snoke come from nowhere and has similar if not greater success. Now he's dead and we may never find out how or why.
[deleted] ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 23:51:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The EU was a more satisfying continuation
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 01:50:42 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Say what you want about the EU's problems but it actually built on things instead of just tearing them down.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 02:58:41 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Snoke dosen't have control over the entire Galaxy like Sidious, the First Order is more like ISIS while the Empire is the USSR
Nothingaddsup ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 04:16:16 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
We know that but the movies haven't shown that. If all you've seen in the films then there is no way you could know. If anything Snoke looks better because starkiller base was better than anything the Empire had
LDKCP ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 20:15:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
WWII was 20 years after the end of WWI, Germany was defeated and able to take over half of Europe in that amount of time. The arms dealers in this film will sell equipment to anyone, so it just needed someone with resources. Snoke wore a silk gown, just a rich powerful force user stepping into the power vacuum.
Nothingaddsup ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 20:26:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That is a good point.
Bazzyboss ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:44:19 on December 20, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Except after WWI, Germany was still a country and a major industrial power that had a huge population in comparison to other European countries.
The first order would be more like an individual German rebellion fighting WWII since the empire was dismantled.
niclasbdb ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 23:54:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah exacly, Incredible stupid point of Nothingaddsup.
samspopguy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:23:47 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
he did not have greater success
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:52:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because they took this direction I view the sequels as optional canon
FanEu7 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 01:50:17 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
More like lazy fanfiction..
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:31:16 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Since when does life come in a nice continuous flow forward. 20 years after WW1 we had WW2, before we had many wars too as we have had earlier. The fact we fought a second World War doesn't mean the victory of The Triple Entente any less meaningful
Ryuzaki3421 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:55:47 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If life was a film, it would suck. Hard
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:31:27 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nah, life did alright
Leafs17 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:43:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's not life IT'S POETRY!!!!
alinos999 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:59:41 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well the issue is more that after the Empire was destroyed. The New Republic decided having a giant army that could be co-opted again was a bad idea.
When Sidious took over there was a large number of areas that could join together to form the resistance.
So it seems like the First Order is sweeping the galaxy that was hard for sidious to conquer. When the reality is, that in the 25+ years since Episode 6 the republic has grown far weaker, and was then wiped out by starkiller base.
At this point it's like a new bully taking over when the seniors graduate at the end of the year. He didn't take over because he's better just because there is a reduction in the competition.
And few of the remaining students were putting in effort to stop the ascension of a new bully
Nothingaddsup ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 19:41:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It straight up feels like nothing was accomplished in Return of the Jedi.
The First Order is seemingly much better equiped than the Empire which doesn't make sense as the Empire controled more, and thus should have had more money etc.
Snoke came in a rebuilt everything (how we don't know) and then the First Order takes out the Republic.
The Galaxy would have been better off if Luke had just let the Empire do its thing.
baktiar77 ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 16:09:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Instead of just one big Death Star, now thereโs 3 different variations of a Death Star (the blaster cannon, a tracker, and that massive canon laser thing at the beginning).
I mean I enjoy the space battles and the Empireโs innovative technology, but surely thereโs more ways to fight a war and win.
Asiriya ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 00:25:18 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just, enough of the super weapons. It's more interesting seeing characters in conflict with each other.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:37:50 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I had no problem with the dreadnought in this movie. It was dealt with quite well in my opinion and actually backfired because they lost all of their bombers destroying the dreadnought when they could've done with them later. It also served to show Poes recklessness and distrust for leadership which would later cause problems. It also went to show how much Poe was respected amongst the pilots who would later mutiny for him
It also wasn't a planet killer or anything. Just a bigger star destroyer, not one of a kind. No overarching plot about killing it, Poe just saw an opportunity and went for it
Asiriya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:22:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The dreadnought was better than the "miniturised Death Star tech" which was just a hollow CGI distraction in the end, it at least provoked conflict.
JensonInterceptor ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:01:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh no another super weapon has appeared. We much hatch a daring plan to destroy THIS one!
bergamaut ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 19:47:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Worse than that, they've completely mishandled the heroes from the OT.
"Hey Han, Luke, and Leia: everything you did in the OT was pointless and you'll unceremoniously fade away with only Ben to carry on the Skywalker legacy."
_Ardhan_ ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:21:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's absolutely one of the problems with the new saga films: the universe has never been this tiny before. We learn absolutely NOTHING about the galaxy itself and the people and creatures in it.
jiggatron69 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:45:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nothing about this new stuff feels epic. Just feels like really expensive cosplay
Dragshisballsz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:56:36 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
because disney is dead creatively and has always made money off the backs of more talented creators. theyre just pimping out franchises for as much as they can and will move on when theyre no longer profitable. and they will keep the ips locked up so nobody can use them and create good stories or do anything creatively because that would take money away from disney.
Seryan_Klythe ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:37:07 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
THIS. This is my problem with the films in this new trilogy. They stand horribly on their own. There is little to no character development. Everything is so empty.
chunkybuttflake ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:24:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think stranger things has anything to do with star wars dude.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:18:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
http://i.imgur.com/BIFNERQ.gifv
FanEu7 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:47:19 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sadly true. They could have gone in many interesting directions after the ending of ROTJ..instead they chose to rehash it all over again with some minor differences.
This whole conflict between the Resistance (Rebels 2.0) and First Order (Empire 2.0) is just lazy. And of course the Jedi are basically extinct again too. Like wtf was even the point of the OT.
Seems like Disney is too afraid to move to new stuff.Hell even with the Anthology movies they are milking the same old characters etc.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:57:54 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I disagree, Kylo is not Vader, and Snoke is obviously not palpatine. This film has flaws but thats not one of them, although it does rip off moments from the OT beat for beat (But not in the same way as TFA)
BioregenerativeLamp ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:17:35 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They had to fix JJ Abrams dumb mystery box
Silverskeejee ยท 35 points ยท Posted at 12:26:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I am so conflicted.
Parts of this film were just utterly, jaw-droppingly good. The light speed ram, Kylo, Luke and Reyโs arc, how tropes got utterly deconstructed...
And yet I feel unsatisfied. Itโs weird. It felt like two movies conflicting with each other. I appreciated that the Poe/Finn/Rose arc was a rare story of impulsive good guys making things infinitely worse....but it just didnโt feel satisfying for some reason. Humor often got in the way. Tension would build up and then naw joke.
Thereโs enough amazingness in this film that I like it, but some editing and pacing would have made it one I love.
slurpie10 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:22:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Luke, Kylo and Rey stuff is good or great. Other stuff is mediocre or bad. Annoys me how they could not bring it up to par.
banrab ยท 349 points ยท Posted at 17:52:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Maybe I'm a dummy but I felt like the Force just had no rules in this film. Connecting people's minds, seeing the future, Princess Leia can suddenly use the force to fucking Jesus herself through space. Then Luke just kinda pops into non existence like a fart in the wind.
It used to be simple, move objects with your mind, slight physics abilities and if you're really evil and strong you can make lightning or whatever. I don't feel like there were any rules or explanations in place for wtf happens other than NAH ITS JUST THE FORCE LOL
PS BB-8 is pushing his luck, I liked him in TFA but seriously piloting a walker and just saving the day whenever he was needed was stupid and contrived
EDIT: ducking --> fucking
[deleted] ยท 42 points ยท Posted at 21:53:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
banrab ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 11:27:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
that.s true about seeing the future but Palpatine and Yoda are arguably the most powerful in the force in their respective Dark and Light sides so those guys seeing the future seems fair and works. Rey is just too powerful too quickly for my liking. I did like that both her and Kylo saw the other turning (aka coming to their side) which was realised during the throne room fight.
From each of there perspectives the other one had turned to be on there side and that's what they were seeing in their premonitions.
PaulFThumpkins ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 07:42:03 on December 20, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, the Force being kind of odd and cosmic and inconsistent is more like the OT, not the "super space wizards" that Jedi became in the prequels.
bedbugsex ยท 167 points ยท Posted at 17:56:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
don't forget controlling the weather from beyond the grave. Nothing had rules in the movie. Everything just happened when it was convenient.
banrab ยท 87 points ยท Posted at 18:09:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ooh shit yeah, yoda just pops up and is like blam I can control sky lighting now lol
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 00:20:07 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If he can do that, then he should go strike Kylo down and end this conflict.
Leafs17 ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 02:52:04 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Episode IX
Kylo wakes up, finds Yoda in his kitchen.
Morning, Ben! mmhrrm Your eggs, like them, how would you? mrrm Scrambled or...hrmm...fried?!
BLAST
roll credits
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 08:09:26 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yoda: Ben, you know what happens with a Sith is struck by lightning?
Kylo: no....
Yoda: Same thing it does to everything else!
Mintfriction ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:34:49 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Dude they are force ghosts, they need entertainment else what's the point
saskatchewan_kenobi ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:09:58 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That was fine for me. The force is energy and everything, and now yoda is one with the force. I think it makes sense
rey1295 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:37:18 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That shit was so funny when I watched it my friend leaned over and said "so Yoda is Jesus now....k"
Glorfindel212 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:16:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well it's not like we've seen force lighting before :)
caliban- ยท 36 points ยท Posted at 18:04:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yep, this is turning into the Walking Dead. Terrible writing, stupid decisions, and complete deviations to characters personalities in order to "further the plot". Except they didn't even do that.
The critics who have given this 93% on Rotten Tomatoes have lost their minds.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:42:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
crits gotta eat too
ThaCarter ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:34:00 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The 86 on metacritic is crazier.
zazeron-of-shadow ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 22:10:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Or maybe because last jedi has a story
And the prequels didn't
RavenK92 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 23:02:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yoda learned from Qui-Gonn how to come back from beyond the grave and become one with the Force. Obi-Wan said flat out that becoming one with the Force makes you a lot more powerful. Yoda was already one of the most powerful Jedi ever when alive. Manipulating and throwing lightning has been an established Force ability for decades.
So how is one of the most powerful Jedi ever, coming back in an even further powered up state, using an ability he has shown before to greater power levels breaking any rules or just happening because it's convenient?
YAYSAY ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:36:46 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Yeah that was ridiculous. If he can do that then where was he to save Han? Why doesn't Anakin just go and interfere with Kylo.
If they're so powerful from the grave Jedi may as well just all kill themselves since they're technically most powerful in death.
bedbugsex ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 01:42:47 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They don't even need the Jedis. Just an army of BB-8s and some suicide bombing Admirals would decimate the First Order.
jollyreaper2112 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:42:02 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Bitch, if you could do this why didn't you zap Palpatine on Death Star 2? Short out the main firing circuit or something?
blambliab ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:58:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Popping into existence as a force ghost is already a force ability. Why would you be surprised that the strongest jedi maybe ever can summon a lightning from beyond the grave? He can already take some kind of form and talk to people. That's also manipulation of their physical world. Lightning is just a little more badass.
yung_senti ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:43:42 on December 21, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's every Star Wars movie.
CerberusDriver ยท 61 points ยท Posted at 18:06:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's exactly how I felt.
The rules were established in the old films but they threw them out the window ; making the Force a catch all thing for doing weird shit I guess.
Luke dying because his 'Force Mana meter' ran out was so stupid, again that's not how it works or used to work.
MarvelFan207 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 13:56:00 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hmmm, I donโt remember yoda giving Luke a list of the forces abilities and being like โthatโs everything the force can doโ. The force was left mysterious and now it was expanded as it CONNECTS ALL BEINGS.
[deleted] ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 20:06:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
rey1295 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 09:44:58 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think a cool way they could've done Leia force bushitery was if they would've shown luke sensing her sister dying and shown him trying to voodoo her back to safety over her merry poppins bullshit
MetaCognitio ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:19:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But at best she would have had a few hours Jedi training...
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:14:47 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Indeed, still a mess; but better than next to nothing. The way it is, it is just an insult to the lore.
MetaCognitio ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:13:14 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"...an insult to the lore". That sums up most of the movie. At least with TFA I really wanted to see what happens next. I really don't care anymore.
fgdadfgfdgadf ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 19:56:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The force went from Jesus turning water into wine to Moses parting the sea in one film.
durandpanda ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 23:08:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Literally all of those force abilities are shown in the original trilogy aside from the floating through space and weather bit.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:57:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I guess The Force...Awakened... in more way than previously thought... I'll see myself out now
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:37:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
F O R C E F A D E A W A Y Y Y
Snowball15963 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:50:47 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This complaint is confusing to me. I thought the Force never had any rules & that was kind of the whole point in the OT. It's used to trick minds, make lightning, float stuff, sense each other from afar, see the future. It's not really a consistent set of powers in the OT, they just keep doing more things and it seems like it's beyond any individual. This was actually one of the main things I thought prequels screwed up, they made the Force into basically just telekinesis & evil people could do lightning because that's scary. The force being used in interesting new ways in this movie is one of the things I like the most about it. It rejects the archetype of force-user = acrobatic magician and instead makes it feel like a truly universal power that literally connects people and can be used by anyone in varying ways.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 22:57:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
All of those force powers are established in the OT.
_Ishmael ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:00:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree about the force. It felt like such an Ex Machina.Really? Jedi can create a force avatar of themselves that is somehow physical and yet not physical depending on the circumstance? REALLY!?
RavenK92 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:03:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes but it apparently kills them. Not so Deus ex Machina when the cost is that high
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:58:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wow...fuck this series anymore what kind of crap writing is that
mosephjoseph ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:14:30 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
MFW https://media.giphy.com/media/OMZRxGyZZ6fGo/giphy.gif
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:45:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That is why you fail.
Seryan_Klythe ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:38:52 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Force is literally a different animal. I don't like that, and it really takes a shit on everything from the past six films.
RubberDong ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:28:16 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The force allows you to do magic pretty much.
Some Jedi project themselves, teleport, read minds, lift shit, tell the future, shoot lazers out of their eyes.
Also Leia is a Skywalker. Dont forget.
mythicreign ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:06:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Force has always been a fucking mess. Just look at assorted games and comics. Jedi/Sith can use it to move like in the Matrix, become effectively immortal and regenerate their bodies and organs, or sap life directly from creatures or planets. It's like the sonic screwdriver from Dr Who, it's a cheat device of sorts, though not quite as egregious.
[deleted] ยท 104 points ยท Posted at 22:43:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't like it very much. Dialogue felt clunky and weird sometimes, and just poorly done. Some of the acting in the beginning felt the same way.
The scene with Maz was just stupid. It felt like a video game cut scene. Carrie Fisher's acting felt kind of stiff. The Carrie Poppins flying through space part was almost cringeworthy. The actual events and world of the movie felt very small. Everything was contained within a small area. The almost political nature of some of the messages/themes in the movie felt a little too heavy handed.
And when Admiral Holdo said "Godspeed" to the escaping rebels.....since when is an Earthly type of religion present in the Star Wars universe?
[deleted] ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 22:48:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:18:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ah true
[deleted] ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 01:05:13 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You can see the movie had a lot of problems when almost no one is commenting about that awful Maz scene. It was so fucking bad.
It's almost like they had already paid Lupita so they needed to put here somewhere in the movie.
SSF2_OW ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 04:53:01 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was horrific, just so so horrific. It didn't need to exist, it broke the internal logic of the film (we need more power for long range communication, here let me use my space watch for long range communication), it was irredeemably bad. Just everything about it was bad. That's all I can say
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 03:48:12 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That scene is one that stood out the most to me.
It was just awfully done. And if they were having a conversation through some device that projects video, why was the video constantly changing perspective? I didn't understand that.
It was unnecessary.
ChappieBeGangsta ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:23:48 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The word "god" doesn't HAVE to mean any Earth deity. I assume these planets have their own pantheons.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:47:03 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yea, true.
Just seemed out of place to me.
ChappieBeGangsta ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:47:51 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There are definitely other phrases that could be used.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:49:52 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If they didn't overuse the phrase in the movie, she could have said "May the force be with you."
But that would have made the phrase used for the billionth time in the movie.
edit: she to the.
DNamor ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:27:34 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I imagine it's like LotR.
What the characters are saying isn't what they're literally saying, it's what's been translated to us. They didn't speak American English a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, they spoke (IIRC) Republic Common, we're just having it translated to us.
That said, LotR does this explicitly, since the books are outright stated to be from Tolkein's translation of the Red Book of Westmarch, and he even included his translation notes (seriously, Tolkein was a freaking mad genius, in a great way).
DancersaurusRex ยท 34 points ยท Posted at 23:04:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
lol at leia sending out request for back up and entire galaxy being like "read 11.36pm"
wigum211 ยท 38 points ยท Posted at 00:48:34 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My first thought was, "there must be some conspiracy with the reviews for this film" . For a movie this poor, I cannot fathom why the reviews are so incredibly positive.
I wrote a long message detailing all I didn't think worked, but it's nothing no one has put in this thread already.
It strangely felt the polar opposite of Rogue One in every way.
SSF2_OW ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 01:59:03 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"10/10, best film ever, greater than that lame old original trilogy" - Totally legitimate review site
I mean c'mon, you can like the film even though it is terrible but 10/10, better than Empire? Those reviews are obviously garbage. You cannot in honesty give out a review like that. It's just so fake
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 01:22:37 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They don't want to be blacklisted
duffking ยท 789 points ยท Posted at 11:18:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This going to cause some heated discussions, I think. If nothing else, that was not playing it safe at all. I'm not sure what I make of it, to be honest.
Frankly, I had a growing suspicion during the first third of the movie that I was going to hate it. A lot of the action felt really stilted, and the humour felt slapdash and inappopriate, like the film just wasn't taking anything seriously at all. It culminates in that Leia moment which was was so astonished misjudged in its execution I couldn't believe what I was seeing. The idea of using the force to survive is fine, but the Mary Poppins esque delivery took me right out of the film.
Dotted throughout the rest of the first act, especially during the scenes on ahch-to with Rey and Luke I repeatedly thought, "I'm sorry, but the film is trying to have a serious moment here - can you stop making fucking jokes for 10 seconds, please?" It robs so many scenes in the first act of the drama they should have.
From that rubbish Leia moment, it started to win me back. A lot. It has some really spectacular stuff in it, and it's really daring considering it's the 8th bloody movie in the franchise. For large stretches it becomes something very different to anything else in the franchise. And there are many scenes that are just fantastic in their execution - the throne room lightsaber duel was excellent especially. And many of the shots during the Crait speeder sequence were incredible to watch. The gambling planet stuff was a little iffy in some ways but at the same time felt they delivered fun in a way that the prequels tried to at times but didn't. The film is a real roller coaster of twists and turns. Though it caused a rollercoaster of emotions for me, some of which it could have done without.
It's also frustrating in how it deals with some of the things that were left more open from TFA. Two things in particular that it felt JJ left for whoever came next to build and expand upon seem needlessly handwaved to me. I enjoyed that Rey is just a nobody. In fact taken with the end, it seems that's the theme of the film - you don't need to be a skywalker or anyone else to become someone. Lineage just doesn't matter. But to do it at the same time as just offing Snoke right as I was becoming interested in the character felt cheap to me. What was the point of him?
But on the other hand, I really liked the origin for Kylo. The idea that Luke fucked up and created a monster when he could have and should have seen another way is far better than what I expected. And it makes sense - Luke may have mastered the force, but he was always brash and impulsive.
I'm really quite conflicted by it. Which in many ways is a good thing. But in some ways less so. I'm not sure where it goes from here. I'm kind of troubled by the protrayal of Hux and Kylo. Given the events of the film, it feels a bit like both sides are to some extent governed by total idiots. I don't buy either of them as leaders of a huge military force.
10/10 for trying to take it somewhere new and different, but I think the execution was patchy and I'm not sure what to make of it overall. But I liked it. I think. I'll need to see it again. But it feels good to be challenged by a Star Wars movie.
Bennyboy11111 ยท 130 points ยท Posted at 11:41:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think snoke was just used to show kylos growth, from someone he tormented to being tricked and able to mask his intentions. snoke had no idea was able to bridge Kylo and Rey together but Kylo was able to decieve him. In the end it was inevitable, you piss off Kylo that much he was gonna kill him eventually
jurwell ยท 41 points ยท Posted at 15:02:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
100%
Snoke was essentially just a plot device to get Kylo to the position of power. His backstory will probably be revealed Darth Plagueis-style in a novel that adds a lot to the trilogy without really changing anything. Even though itโs information that to a hardcore fan is essential, itโs not the story that is being told on-screen.
His death also made perfect sense, in that his hubris and arrogance prevented him from seeing his apprentice making his move for power, as with all โRule Of Twoโ Sith deaths. Kylo isnโt more powerful than Snoke, but Snokeโs power had blinded him, and Kylo took advantage. I do expect him to take a significant leap in power from now until the next film to reflect his deepening mental conflict and his position at the top of the First Order hierarchy. Rey will obviously follow suit. But that is more speculation for another time.
FuujinSama ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 23:27:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Some people, me included tend to not like when characters are just obvious plot devices. You could have a bit more of an arc to him in this movie and we'd be more invested when he dies. Have us know his plans. What he wants. Have us hate or love him. Instead all we ever were about Snoke was puzzled, and then they killed a character who we were still puzzled about.
It feels sloppy as fuck.
jurwell ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:43:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
One of the themes of Reyโs arc is that you can be a nobody and still rise to the top/make a difference/โbe somebodyโ or however you want to phrase it. Who he is or where he came from doesnโt matter, what does matter is that heโs the big evil head honcho who trained Kylo. Palpatine had literally zero backstory when he appeared in Empire, and it doesnโt matter in that case either, heโs just The Emperor and thatโs it. Empire = Bad and therefore Emperor = Biggest Bad. Same with Snoke.
tegix62 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 02:43:16 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You're explaining it well, the "a nobody can be somebody" theme is a good point too, but I still feel weird about Snoke having zero backstory
I mean, in Palpatine's case, we watched his rise to power in the prequels. We know he had a huuuuge amount of time to plan, whereas there's about 30 years between ROTJ and TFA, and this new massively powerful Sith has arisen, complete with a full army and an apprentice, and we know nothing else about him.
Rey's a single character we're watching the rise of, whereas Snoke is an established leading force in this new era
Perhaps that's just where the tone of the originals and the prequels differ, and we expect this new trilogy to latch on to some familiar tone, idk
jurwell ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:04:06 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you take each of the three trilogies as standalone entities in the order they were released then it makes much more sense. The original trilogy gives no context for the Emperor being in power, he just is. The prequel trilogy then goes back and fills in the blank. The new trilogy is itโs own entity despite following the same story and characters. That blank just hasnโt been filled for us yet.
samspopguy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:52:37 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
but you know that now only in retrospect though.
FuujinSama ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:45:33 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Of course. I thought thus was the best star wars movie ever made until the final third of the movie went completely down the drain.
All the big moments happen to characters that weren't build up enough for them, and all the characters we follow fail their mission. Which would be fine if this was a tragedy in tone, but they get saved by the non focus characters every time, making me feel like their entire plot was just a huge waste of my time.
The scene where Rose rams Finn's ship is like a microcosm of how fucking unsatisfying everything in the movie felt.
Of course I only know the ending sucked in retrospect, after watching the ending, but I think it's legitimate that a screwed up conclusion would affect how you see the whole.
mrandocalrissian ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:46:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
From a lore point of view, the Rule of Two also brings with it an idea that for a Sith to 'complete' their training, they have to kill their master and take their place. Probably not explicitly mentioned in canon any more but when Snoke called for Kylo to complete his training at the end of TFA and then again when calling for Rey to be executed in TLJ, I was thinking of this. Snoke's days were always numbered in order for Kylo to rise...just a shame we couldn't see the real extent of his threat beforehand.
Bennyboy11111 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:30:32 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Darth Vader offered Padme to help him kill the emperor and then later asked Luke to join him and kill the emperor. In the tossed EU Sidious killed plageuis. I can't wait to see if kylo gains an apprentice
TheLast_Centurion ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:27:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe yeah, but rhe execution of that was.. well.. not that great.
thenotsofunnyside ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:41:17 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Kinda like Vader in the EU. You can only get away with so much with Vader and Kylo before they take you down. Difference is Vader knew he could never take Sidious out because of his armour. Kylo on the otherhand...
Hux learns this as well.
Sisiwakanamaru ยท 282 points ยท Posted at 11:29:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I think I agree with that. This movie subverted many expectations and perceptions that I had, and I am happy with that.
TheJoshider10 ยท 96 points ยท Posted at 12:29:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Pretty much. If I think "oh it's a shame X didn't happen" I remember how cliche that would be and how shocked I was in the cinema.
It's about time these movies forge their own path instead of dwelling on the past. And that was practically the whole point of the movie.
Choekaas ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 12:48:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree. And it's a good thing the theme of a sacrifice happened in this installment. It would've been to weird to start having it in The Force Awakens.
Here we get Yoda's comments about the old text books. The many times characters actively went out to sacrifice themselves. It's another step from Episode 7, which heavily focused on telling it would be Star Wars as we remembered it. The marketing was all about it. "Practical effects! Real sets! Shooting on film!" And Episode 8 takes a lot from that, but moves it towards something new. And that is what it ALSO was marketed as. "It's bold! It's surprising!" which everyone said. John Williams even acknowledges it in the score for this film, that heavily develops the newer themes (Rey's theme, Kylo Ren's theme, the Resistance theme and that new one for Rose).
moderate-painting ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:06:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yoda's last lesson to Luke right there!
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:01:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
antennanarivo ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 22:53:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I can't say anything for the Force Awakens, which I disliked, but they handled Luke's story with a lot of depth.
You may not have liked the direction which it took, but he was a very important part of story, and was developed very intentionally.
bedbugsex ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:37:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How wasn't it cliched and predictable? Of course Rey wasn't going to join Kylo, of course every time a main character is about to die something blows up or catches them. The only thing that was a "surprise" was Kylo not killing Luke... so he could die on his own a few seconds later.
wanabejedi ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:07:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
That was the only "surprise" as you put it? Are you sure about that?
So before kylo was shown to be moving the lightsaber towards Snoke you totally predicted that the big baddie that we had yet to learn anything about would be killed half way through the second movie of a trilogy? Or that after all the set up in episode 7 and part of 8 that Finn and Rey care for each other that a new character would come in and kiss Finn at the end creating a potential love triangle? Or that after all the work in 7 to find Luke and the desperate situation the Rebellion is in that Luke would refuse to train Rey? Or before the show Laura Dern's character prepping for light speed you totally guessed that she was gonna ram the bad guys at light speed? Or that Luke was actually projecting an image of himself from half a galaxy away?
This movie isn't perfect and love it or hate it, the one thing you can't say about this movie is that it was predictable and still expect anyone here to take you seriously.
BioregenerativeLamp ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:27:04 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Or that THE plan of getting a codebreaker and sneak up in a ship will not be part of the climax of the movie and it will totally fail. Or that the plan of Poe Dameron was also going to fail.
DarkmanBeyond ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:47:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Except the Jedi though... And the books.
Nzash ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:16:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They didn't have to shit all over the past by mistreating Luke like this to do that, though.
TheJoshider10 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 22:27:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't really think they mistreated him though. I thought the way he was made complete sense for the story and his arc ended in a satisfying way.
ribblle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:23:22 on December 28, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Luke just wasn't the kind of guy to abandon the galaxy coz of his bad feels.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:56:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm fine with people liking the challenging style, but I think there is a large group of people who liked Star Wars for the fantasy, mythology, and adventure. The classic heroes journey with some predictable tropes. I think it's completely fine for light, predictable adventures. I don't need all of my movies striving to be challenging or high art. Not saying The Last Jedi is a bad movie, there are just so many other great movies that challenge you, I don't know I needed it from a Star Wars movie. It would be like turning Indiana Jones into some gritty action movie. The lightness and adventure are why Indiana Jones films are loved. If they wanted to go in a different direction I wish they had just omitted the OT characters. It feels weird that this trilogy is so hyped and bankable precisely because they brought back loved OT characters, to then kind of turn on that and essentially have a message of "nothing was special, anyone can be a hero". I'll be interested to see how much it hurts the box office of the third movie if the backlash grows.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:26:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Looks like that Luke line in one of the trailers,
was true, after all.
Dragshisballsz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:16:47 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
fixed that for you.
noobule ยท 199 points ยท Posted at 12:17:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Snoke was a bad character. I liked him in this, but they killed him because he was pointless. TFA was sooooo lazy in many respects, and half of this movie is a deliberate reaction to that. Last Jedi knows that the audience knows that the overall trilogy arc will be the same as the originals , but it sternly refuses to follow all the same plot beats as well.
Fakayana ยท 139 points ยท Posted at 13:44:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's a lot of things where TLJ subverts/"fixes" TLA (for better or worse):
Ratachu ยท 58 points ยท Posted at 13:56:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Also, this movies isnโt a carbon copy of ESB
samrpacker ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 16:05:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Benecio Del Toro was basically Lando but less charming and that bothered me A LOT.
Fnhatic ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:31:47 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was seriously expecting it to be Billy Dee.
samrpacker ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:51:15 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Since I went in 100% blind I was really looking forward to seeing Lando after they got to a gambling planet
rebb1t ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:52:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And a little ROTJ thrown in
leftysarepeople2 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:17:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs ESB in a lot of ways
Ratachu ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:36:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
As itโs RFJ or TFA in a lot of ways
ThanosDidNothinWrong ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 19:32:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's also TLJ in most ways
Fnhatic ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:33:16 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
wtf is RFJ
dev1359 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:48:40 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Real Fucking Jedi
Fnhatic ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:32:31 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The 'Hoth' scene at the end aside, it's the second part of a three-parter, traditional filmmaking rules generally require the second act to hit a few key elements - the hero grows, the conflict grows, and you prepare for the climax.
leftysarepeople2 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:39:27 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It just didnโt build on TFAโs work a lot though. Finn inched forward at a snails pace, Poe got some eureka moment to be a leader, and Rey was good. Theyโre a small rebellion on the run still. Kylo Ren just subverted Snoak like no big deal (even though he wants to let everything die?) and is still a dick, though we saw he has a glimmer of light.
IntelWarrior ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:09:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When the beginning scroll ended with the bit about evacuating their base as the First Order approached I was worried about it being a complete rehash. Thankfully it was not. I was surprised that neither Kylo or Rey lost a hand during the throne room scene.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:16:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Sempere ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:51:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
...bullshit.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:31:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
goddamnitobama ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 22:44:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Uhh that first bit is from A New Hope?
Asiriya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:38:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's a best bits. The Snoke confrontation was RotJ.
Leafs17 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:46:41 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She still is.
SaltHallonet ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 14:52:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Umm, she gets relt by snoke for like 10 seconds and gets told that her parents were beggars, she still doesnt have any faults and is still the last good Jedi to save the jedi order and the galaxy. She also killed all those gaurds, still with no training whatsoever.
The only "fix" here was her seekkng the dark force without restraint
Bull, good guys habe been dying ever since Obi Wan
This is not a fix
No
DaLateDentArthurDent ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:28:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In response to the beating the guards with 0 training. People seem to forget that TFA establishes that Rey knows how to handle herself in a fight, sheโs been an orphan on a scavenging planet for 10+ years. She learned to adapt and we see her fight competently throughout the film, obviously not to a remarkable standard.
I wouldnโt say she was particularly impressive in the big fight. She took out two of the dudes, Kylo took the rest. He was fighting 2 at once while she was getting choked out by one with two daggers.
Sheโs not this amazing crazily good fighter, sheโs competent and knows how to survive
pikachuwei ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 21:51:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Those dudes were Snokeโs personal guard and probably some of the best fighters in the galaxy. Given even Kylo struggled with them she should have been smoked by one guy if she was merely competent. Not to mention Reyโs shown force strength on par with Kylo (a Skywalker) and her lifting all those rocks at the end rivals what the most powerful force users could do, like Luke/Yoda lifting the X-wing or Sidious/Yoda hurling Senate pods at each other. All the other top tier Force users were Skywalkers or had decades or centuries of training whereas Rey literally had 2 lessons from Luke and is already on par with Kylo. Sheโs clearly OP for no reason other than Disney needing their strong female lead.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:20:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ma-rey sue
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:56:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She almost died from those guards, here inexperience clearly showed. She is also not the last Jedi.
MurderousPaper ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:36:07 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Snoke's death, lack of the Knights of Ren, and Luke's immediate rejection of the saber all add to this feeling. I'm not sure how I feel about it yet. As much as I disagreed with some of JJ's contributions, I feel that Rian could have at least made an effort to continue some threads. But he totally didn't and made the movie that he wanted to make; regardless of what JJ or fans or whoever wanted. It was ballsy and I respect that, I think it'll just take some time for me to get used to it.
aulum ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:10:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If we change nothing but remove plot armor...would've the movie be better? Who'd be alive still? Haha I love this idea :)
k0mbine ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:17:55 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think Reyโs Mary Sueness could also be explained by her force bond with Kylo. Maybe she got some runoff force puss from Kylo.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:22:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Grunts aren't good guys, just main characters
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:58:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Dutchy115 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:12:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah righto lad.
lisward ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:43:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well I thought that too until they made him look fucking awesome with his golden silk robe, sick ass throne room and throne, and red Guards. I got HUGE Goldblum Thor Ragnarok vibes and was super interested.
On the other hand your point i agree with. In the end they just blitzed past JJ Abrams probable plans for his trilogy, Rey trying to turn Kylo, Kylo turning and betraying Snoke cuz of the good in him, and turned it into one scene.
Iโm just worried about how Kylo would perform as a villain now, because heโs definitely not powerful enough. What I LOVED about Snoke was how menacing his presence was, vs Sidious who just shot lightning bolts and got his ass kicked by Windu. Snoke also has clear motivations, he wants to rule the galaxy, but does what does Kylo Ren want? Does he really go from trying to find himself to Hahaha Iโm evil now I wanna rule everything?
MartelFirst ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:57:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Of all things, The Last Jedi made TFA look worse. I'm coming straight off of seeing TLJ, so my thoughts aren't straight yet (I enjoyed most of it, no doubt), but while watching it I couldn't help looking back at TFA with even more contempt. I've only seen TFA twice and I don't really want to see it again, whereas I expect I'll give TLJ a few more runs, especially considering it has a handful of very rewatchable scenes. TLJ really brought us to new directions, subverting expectations too.
jiggatron69 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 18:48:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sounds like Disney hires some WB DCEU movie execs to manage Star Wars
Asiriya ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 19:26:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I respect your opinion, I would only call the film challenging in the sense that it was tough to sit through. It was literally two films, an intriguing, relatively creative twist on RotJ that I enjoyed (though the jokes were I'll judged, this isn't and shouldn't be a Marvel film). The other was a ridiculous, Starkiller base-esque heist that was given no love: not enough time, or passion, or creativity, to deserve anywhere near the amount of time it was given.
There were ten different ways to resolve the Resistance storyline, none of them taken.
I was really looking forward to the casino scenes. I was hoping we'd get political, actually begin to get a sense of the state of the galaxy. I was imagining our heroes actually interacting with the galactic elites, Leia there to steer their way through a Casino Royale-esque encounter with members of the First Order.
The seat of the Republic is destroyed, but it consists of hundreds of planets. Losing a system wouldn't destroy it, and losing Starkiller base has greatly wounded the First Order. Neither can prevail so they've settled into an uneasy peace, a Cold war with both sides trying to gather support.
The result is Snoke and Ren meeting with Leia and pals, schmoozing, with Luke and Rey eventually turning up as counterbalances to Snokes hand.
Snoke and Luke were the best parts of this film, and they should have been given equal time.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:02:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
IMO this movie was just as lazy as TFA in terms of the plot, just in a different way. TFA shamelessly ripped off ANH. TLJ did the same, but just twisted the payoff. It recreated moments from ESB and RotJ but just changed their ending.
For instance: what if instead of staying loyal at first Vader overthrew the emperor like he was planning?
Instead of making a valiant and successful fight against the walkers on hoth what if the rebels mostly failed?
Instead of being a good teacher what if the Yoda role (Skywalker now) chose not to really teach the person who came to him?
Instead of telling the truth to try and convince the young jedi to join him, what if Vader (now Ben) lies?
Instead of being a scoundrel with a heart of gold, what if the smuggler is just in it for himself?
Instead of being a wise mentor as a force ghost, what if the jedi master that unexpectedly comes back is just a dick?
theaspiringfilmmaker ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:20:57 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You could do that with every movie. Stop kidding yourself
chuiboy ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:13:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Is that really how they do it? One person (JJ Abrams) writes and directs the first movie and leaves it open for the next person (Rian Johnson)? The movies tell me yes, that is how they do it, but my brain is saying, "that is such a bad way to approach a trilogy that there is no way it is true especially considering how big Star Wars is."
Leafs17 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:48:34 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is one of the biggest(and scariest) questions I have.
bergamaut ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:52:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's completely opposite from what Luke at the end of ROTJ would have done. He was always optimistic and always saw the good in people.
Luke murdering a student out of fear? He's honestly the last person to do that. He would have rather sacrificed himself than kill Vader.
Andromedanus ยท 69 points ยท Posted at 13:25:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This. Playing it safe would have been making Rey a Skywalker going dark, Snoke being some occult Sith lord and Kylo defecting to the light side.
And it should be. I don't want to see the same themes repeated for the 50th time.
Fanboys are the fucking worst with their convoluted theories and inability to accept it when the narrative doesn't copy the EU or the OT.
duffking ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 14:48:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
To add, I do really like the idea of both Rey and Kylo essentially rejecting their respective Jedi/Sith traditions and instead attempting to find their own path and with the help of the other. But because they have polar-opposite ideas for how to achieve that, they come into conflict. It feels fresh, rather than plain good versus evil again.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:57:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'd love for them to grow "together" while also being opponents. Share the struggle of the fight against the other side of the force, only to end up on a grey spectrum in the end.
Dragshisballsz ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 00:20:25 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
rey going dark and kylo defecting would definitely not have been playing it safe and would have been a lot more risky than people think. building up your hero and villain only to have them switch sides halfway through will either make or break your franchise, especially if its not done right.
TubbyCustard ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 00:46:47 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I have no idea what that guy is smoking because having Rey go dark is in no way safe from a writing standpoint. Watching that scene, I was actually thinking "I hope she accepts" simply because I didn't expect her to; I'd've had no idea where the story would go from there (which is exciting), and it would be nice to be surprised. Key word: "surprised". I knew she'd say no. How the fuck is having your beloved hero go the villain route "safe"
PickledPokute ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:08:02 on December 21, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
After Kylo says to Rey to get rid of all the old: "the jedi, the sith, the rebels..." I was kind of waiting for Rey to counteroffer with "and the First Order" which would've been interesting. Unfortunately it would've made it still an acceptable position for Kylo and acceptation would've killed most of the plot drive.
ribblle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:33:37 on December 28, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I guess he means it's the obvious twist.
Drama79 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:12:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know about you guys, but I cannot wait for a GIF of Luke drinking green space-titty milk.
unsilviu ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:56:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
One with him throwing the lightsaber would be glorious.
Mortos3 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:34:44 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That was certainly a weird scene, came out of nowhere
nashist ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 12:21:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Man, thank you for the long reply, you put it very well. Don't quite agree with everything you said, especially the casino scene. It felt so out of place, took me off the movie and made me go "wtf" way more than once.
And there were more issues. I get what you're saying about being challenged and taking risks with a Star Wars movie, and some paid off, others didn't. Rey's parents? Totally paid off, the idea of a nobody being strong with the Force is amazing and opens many doors. Snoke's death? Paid off, should have been better executed becase it became very predictable, since they showed Kylo's hand and the lightsabre moving. If it was a total surprise I would have enjoyed it more.
But the vice-admiral for example, definitely did NOT pay off. She had an AMAZING send off, but everything leading to that felt so unecessary, it was all just we would think she was bad and then we had a mini plot-twist.
Unfortunately a lot of the film's mistakes came from that need of subplots and small twists.
Overall, I REALLY enjoyed the film's main story and basically hated the rest (except the vice-admiral sacrifice, but that could have happened anyway, and in an even more endearing way if they didn't try to sway us).
ender23 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:40:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The vice admiral, we kept viewing her from Poeโs point of view, which is why you feel that way. Poe, who lost all the bombers (how do bombs drop in zero g anyways.), and Poe, the reason why the first order found out about the drop ships. The Poe story of becoming a leader wasnโt actually done that well. But heโs a kick ass fly boy so we love him. But vice admiral was always a kick ass resistance figure, but we never gave her a fair shot
nashist ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 12:58:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And that's what made it not work. You don't feel for her and her sacrifice, because she just appeared, was mean for a while, and then suddenly she wants to save everyone.
Even if we could only see it through Poe's character, she should always trust him because, even though he was demoted, he was always a hero, best pilot, and blew up the fucking Star Killer Base, so a little "Poe we are heading for that planet and we'll hold off there" would have been nice
ender23 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:32:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
yeah a lot of stuff they did to try and develope poe didn't really work or make that much sense.
nashist ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:33:18 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly!
Fnhatic ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 03:30:34 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Edit out all the 'comedy' bits and it would gain a lot.
For fuck's sake, Poe is standing in front of an exploding hangar, hundreds of people are killed, and all their fighters destroyed, and here's BB-8 comically flying through the air squealing.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:53:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was totally uninterested by the entire plot with Rey and luke on the island because they don't have a single meaningful shared experience, Luke mopes around as rey pines for his attention, and every now and then we are doled out bits of exposition as a reward for bearing with the tedium of it all. Rey's characterisation felt incredibly weak also, I didn't find myself empathising with, or caring about her reaction to Luke's actions at all.
The unraveling of Luke and Ben's history, and the cave scene were the only interesting things to come of it.
SuIIy ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:42:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So who and what was the point of Snoke? Does anyone know yet? This is what's irritating me the most.
Shyu_Katana ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:41:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not a lot, but he's just a grand and final stepping stone for Kylo Ren I think. Like in that story the Jedi won't tell you, the master couldn't save himself from death because his apprentice kills him.
Who was he? No idea.
thesirenlady ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:20:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's definitely the conscious nature of the action that ruins it. I could have seen the force moving Leia entirely on its own, as if to say "The galaxy isnt done with you yet". Instead we get Superwoman
UncomfortablePrawn ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 11:44:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Iโd actually argue about the Leia scene. Iโd say itโs really not a surprise she can use the Force, given her background. I mean, just look at Kyloโs powers. Thatโs gotta come from somewhere.
I agree with you that it did really great for an eighth movie in a series. Many series end up playing to the same tropes and becoming very repetitive after awhile.
This, on the other hand, had just the right amount of callbacks to previous episodes to have a good sense of nostalgia, but also a ton of new, unexpected things (especially plot-wise)
[deleted] ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 12:11:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
Duck1337 ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 13:20:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
100% agreed. I loved the moment she "re-ignited" and her eyes opened, I was like "Fuck yes, finally Leia has a strong Force moment" but then the whole floating motion was just god awful.
thegreatbritish ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:37:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was thinking it would have been cool to see her use the force to save others. Maybe the blast doors won't shut and people are in danger of being sucked into space. She summons the force to close the blast doors, and dies in space. Would have been a good send off while showing her force abilities imo.
RunDNA ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:42:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is a total guess, but is it possible that it was Luke who saved her somehow?
Duck1337 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:55:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Considering how he "shut himself off" to the force untill about 70% of the way through the movie, i'd say no. This was all Leia.
RunDNA ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:56:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You've got a point there.
DaLateDentArthurDent ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:31:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Personally I think it Kylo that saved her
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:56:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's amusing that this scene happened in the same year as "I'm mary poppins y'all!" making it all the more ridiculous.
TinMachine ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:44:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's funny to see people say this, it was my favourite moment!
Faoeoa ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:35:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, the only issue I had with the Leia thing is how it was handled; it felt out of place but asides from that it was great.
GaiusHegamonus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:48:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"Iโd actually argue about the Leia scene. Iโd say itโs really not a surprise she can use the Force, given her background. I mean, just look at Kyloโs powers."
Explains Reys powers then. Why is she now the greatest Jedi?
pink_lemonad3 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 12:40:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
the leia survival scene ruined the fucking film for me
a_wild_thing ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:43:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Me too, unlike OP I couldnโt come back from that. YOB: 1979
TheCrystalShards ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:53:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I was a little sad when Snoke went. I appreciate the twist but I was enjoying the character.
Mrpoedameron ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:41:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you for taking the time to write up precisely how I feel - I'm exhausted (saw the film at midnight then again at 9am...) but share your sentiments.
Sempere ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:49:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Superman: The Movie, actually.
theaspiringfilmmaker ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:18:56 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is a great comment and sums it up perfectly.
bermental ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:04:40 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This puts into words exactly how I feel.
I_Am_Dynamite6317 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:43:01 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree completely on the Leia scene. Completely hokey and just flat out weird. But I loved it from that point on.
dev1359 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:47:08 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You hit the nail on the head in a lot of aspects with this review. I walked out of this movie at the end not sure if I was satisfied or not, it's definitely a strange movie to me that has a lot that I liked and a hell of a lot that I disliked. Really not sure what to rate this one and I'll have to rewatch it before I decide.
Khrull ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:58:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So... Why are critics calling it one of the best star wars movies? That cause Disney paid them? I mean... You would do that for this movie... Lol everything I've read solidifies to me the movie just seems bad.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:55:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Funny how I assumec Kylo would be Anakin part 2 but he's actually the most three dimensional character.
Dragshisballsz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:15:14 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
its not that it wasnt playing it safe, its that it wasnt playing it smart. most of the choices made in this movie and by extension the franchise so far are just stupid. theyre not even difficult mistakes to fix they would require minimal changes to the story and a few throwaway lines in a few scenes like giving rey a decent backstory, explaining snokes motivations/ why he copied the emperor and his plans, why pretty much anything has happened so far. we have been teased with some great storyline but so far havent gotten jack shit.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:30:10 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This sums up a lot of what Iโm feeling. First 1/3 was bad, second 1/3 was pretty awesome, and then the end just seemed really convoluted.
PaulFThumpkins ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:38:22 on December 20, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Pretty much my impression completely. This one gave me something to chew on, had tough decisions and character growth (Luke being disillusioned and bitter and transcending the whole Jedi thing entirely is GREAT imo), a little too much cruft like the casino plot (though I liked the "infiltrate the enemy base" plan not working because I'm sick of that trope), but ultimately had a thousand times more to say than TFA, and felt way more grounded to me.
There's a lot of great criticism for this movie around but I feel like a lot of the "fuck this movie and the big shit it took on the OT, why aren't Rey's parents somebody we know?" comments aren't accomplishing that. I'm not invested in the view people have of a Star Wars movie (Blade Runner 2049 if my movie of the year), but I didn't feel bored or condescended to watching TLJ and it felt like it sprouted from some of the same soil as the OT with admittedly too much tiring action and too many sideplots pulled from more modern expectations.
Destructoranal ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 11:45:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If it wasn't named STAR wars you wouldn't have given it a 5/10. You people are biased as fuck
Destructoranal ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 12:18:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The truth hurts I see. People were pointing out basically the same good and bad aspects about Valerian for example, and still labeled it as shit. You people ARE biased, and you HEAVILY use double standards while judging Star Wars vs any other SciFi/fantasy blockbuster
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:49:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Destructoranal ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:47:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I am talking in general. And it's true.
ender23 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:32:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The third movie will define how we feel about this one. It is the second movie of three. It does get a little preachy about poor people being the resistance. But I think it matches the times we are in. And our heros are not so black and white any more (totally on purposing pointing out the Asian girl). The struggle between light and dark for both Kylo and Rey I thought were masterfully done.
V13T ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:47:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This was exactly my experience. For the first third of the movie and after the plause of the review i heard i was really baffled. But since rey touches kylo and she flies off, HOLY! I was so excited, i also really liked snoke death because it was so unprobable before the movie. Really liked the originality, and will to expand the universe, instead of bigger, better, badder theme from TFA (which i still love). When you want to do something new is easy to do wrong (that's why tfa was played safe) and leia scene was my only really letdown of the film. (Maybe a little to comedic in the beginning, but star wars was always like that, instead people picture it a gritty and serious saga)
BoazMayhem ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:56:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just wanna thank you for putting down exactly how I feel. I just feel so conflicted about this film, many for the reasons you put down. So cheers. Take my gold
LatexSanta ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 13:33:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Pity that so much potential had to be wasted on Disney Wars.
Thanks for your frank analysis.
I still won't be watching it, though.
Lord_Locke ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:34:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
9th.
[deleted] ยท 143 points ยท Posted at 18:50:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I have not seen the film yet but I find it funny/interesting that the film has such high ratings from critics but pretty much every comment here seems to be rather meh on it.
wolfgang187 ยท 35 points ยท Posted at 19:04:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Like Star Trek Discovery. Overwhelming praise from critics, underwhelmed response from viewers.
rthunderbird1997 ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 20:13:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair I think people warmed to STD by the end of the first part of the series.I know I did at least.
[deleted] ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 23:31:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Huh. There wasn't a better acronym?
rthunderbird1997 ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 23:31:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nope, it's also hilarious.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 01:31:06 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Fans are calling it DIS.
wolfgang187 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:27:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I can't give it a chance due to the cowardly time frame they chose to place the show in. CBS should've had some courage and gone into the future of Voyager if they expected me to watch.
[deleted] ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 23:58:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's baffling to me because there are so many flaws in it but the critic consensus is still positive. All of the reviews I've read have had negative aspects
SthrnCrss ยท 34 points ยท Posted at 20:28:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nobody hates Star Wars more than the Star Wars fans
Mother_Jabubu ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 22:19:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not really, to this day there is still a The Force Awakens defense force that will attack anyone who shits on it
scredeye ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 22:48:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
TLJ will also get a defence force, like the prequels, and even ROTJ for their ewoks. But you're right, people will defend TFA and rogue one to no end even though the former was very uninspiring and the later wasn't a very good movie. I personally enjoy them for what they are and have my own headcanon but as just fundamental movies alone, I feel like TLJ triumphs over the Disney star wars movies. Don't have any faith in their upcoming projects besides rians new trilogy so let's see if future movies are good.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 23:32:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I actually really liked Rogue One. It wasn't really a Star Wars movie. But I thought it was a great movie. The cinematography alone is superb.
ChappieBeGangsta ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 00:15:31 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It would have been a solid movie if we didn't already know how the plot turned out
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:04:58 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is such a dumb comnplaint I see all the time with prequels. How come when something is based on history, a book, comic, or is a remake it's fine that people know's what's going to happen and noone complains but when it's a prequel is suddenly a huge issue? I swear it just seems like a meme.
ChappieBeGangsta ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:26:22 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
because normally in those adaptations, they dont base ALL of the tension on "WILL THEY SUCCEED?". Usually those movies are character based, or have some other theme that is the point of the movie.
ToTheNintieth ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:02:45 on December 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't care for TFA but loved Rogue One.
scredeye ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 22:47:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's a strong amount of hate here but I genuinely enjoyed it. Besides killing ackbar casually and holdo wiping out the first order fleet easily, I thought the movie was amazing
Deepandabear ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 03:18:14 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I know right Ackbar was an icon and he was just tossed aside in an after thought.
goodbyekitty83 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:26:10 on December 20, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not really, if you think about it. He was just a generic captain dude.
Deepandabear ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:31:22 on December 20, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You realize the โITโS A TRAPโ meme spawned from his words right
goodbyekitty83 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:45:39 on December 20, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, I do. But if you just look at his character in the films, he's not anyone special.
Deepandabear ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:40:43 on December 20, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He is still an icon to fans regardless and should be treated thusly
Mintfriction ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 01:39:47 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't get why people have a problem with that. Not everyone gets an epic end. And it was nice for a change, it makes it sad that a great admiral is not mourned in the end and puts a great perspective at how wars distort things like this
scredeye ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 06:01:49 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Actually, all the leaders were mourned for, ackbar has his name called out too, it's just a shame that his death was so unnecessary and contributed nothing, it wouldve been better if they gave the OT characaters proper sendoffs like having ackbar do the suicide hyperdrive move instead of holdo. At least that way they could've developed holdo a lot more
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:33:31 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I loved this movie. For me it was THE best Star Wars. The force is not hereditary, missions not always successful, deaths can be random and not always something "hollywood-like I sacrifice myself blablabla", Skywalker that did not had a complete training made mistakes will training new apprentices.
That's war, shit happens, it happened, and I'm happy with this.
astraeos118 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 02:07:29 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
YEah its called Disney money
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:55:27 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah right, I'm sure that's why they've had other high profile films bomb with critics in the oast, stop it with the silly conspiracy theories. More likely than not the people here were just hoping for something else than the critics.
RamboBashore ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 03:49:46 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I absolutely loved it. Wish I hadn't came to this thread. Nothing but negativity, it's depressing.
RedofPaw ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:08:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I liked it a lot.
MarvelFan207 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:46:05 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Probably because critics can sit and openly watch a film and not be swayed by what they want to happen in the film. Fans canโt, if it doesnโt go their way they get upset
Gorm_the_Old ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 22:09:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There were some negative reviews. And if you read the positive reviews closely, there was a lot of bet-hedging about it dragging in places, some of the humor feeling forced, not really that much like the other Star Wars films, etc.
Also, and this is a critically important point: when you get down to it, a lot of critics are just not into this type of movie. They get excited about European imports and obscure art-house flicks. When it comes to big action or sci-fi movies, they're often just taking a guess as to whether their audience will like it, because they really don't and would rather be watching David Lynch making a documentary about the life of Werner Herzog.
So I think it's possible that a whole lot of critics went and watched it and thought "eh, it wasn't terrible and I'm sure the kids will love it" and stamped "good enough" on their review. Incidentally . . . pretty much the same thing that happened with The Phantom Menace. A lot of the reviews before the first public viewings were positive but vague in the "good enough" vein - it was only after audiences gave it the thumbs-down that critics went back and reassessed it and decided that it really wasn't that great of a movie.
TomTheJester ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 01:06:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm sorry, but WHAT? Critics have been praising everything down to the body odour of Disney executives for years now. If anything, they have been turning away from arthouse films more than anything else.
Gorm_the_Old ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 03:17:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think that has a lot more to do with the fact that Disney executives have made it clear that critics who are insufficiently excited about their releases may not get invited to pre-screenings.
theaspiringfilmmaker ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:26:49 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not true. Next!
meeyans ยท 34 points ยท Posted at 14:18:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
yeah exactly, it was palpatine version 2.0 with none of the substance and made less sense. i wouldโve liked a bit of backstory because it didnโt make sense how he wouldโve gained this much power in the 30 years since ROTJ but at the end of the day he was a pretty unoriginal character to begin with.
Mintfriction ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:12:31 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Agree, poorly handled. I mean I'm happy he died like that, it was an epic scene imho, but the movie needed more about how he became the most powerful force user.
But tbh, I think he had more lines than Palpatine in the original trilogy. The character of Palpatine is all due to the prequels
MarvelFan207 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:03:18 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Letโs see how episode 9 goes first. Just look at the marvel franchise, every movie is a set up for the next
noobule ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 16:32:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Captain of the Dreadnought was so cool! I really wish Hux was more like him - competent and in command, clearly the right man for the top job. But in this he's just a big whiner.
Portmanteau_Pat ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 02:42:30 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree. He felt more like a real admiral. He would have fit in great at the table with Tarkin and the others in ANH.
[deleted] ยท 109 points ยท Posted at 16:13:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In my opinion SuperLeia/LeiaPoppins just overtook "I don't like sand" as the no. 1 worst scene in Star Wars.
[deleted] ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 16:51:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
lol Leia Poppins, Lucas and the prequels are looking like masterpieces now
Qwertdd ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:05:37 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I kept thinking of Jesus Christ T-Pose superman in Man of Steel.
Yikes.
SirFloppyDotA ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:35:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought the Yoda scene was even worse.
MasterBalls ยท 148 points ยท Posted at 18:36:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I know it means a different thing outside of the UK, but when Snoke said "spunk" I was drawn out of the movie for the rest of that scene.
ThisIsMyRainCloud ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 20:42:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Several people in each my viewings have looked at each other with a WTF face. More comical watching the audience than the forced jokes.
AlfredWillington ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 23:22:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"THE GIRL HAS SPUNK!" or whatever the line was buckled me with laughter. It was just so out of left field to hear the big bad of this new trilogy use a word that I have so heavily associated with teenagedom.
TWK128 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:40:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That and porn.
Leckere ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:54:42 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Out of every word they couldโve used as well, like courage, steel, determination, stubbornness โ literally fucking anything โ they use โspunkโ.
piratemurray ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:34:24 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why do you think his face looked like that?
Leafs17 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:55:03 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Or that scene where you see Luke over Rey's shoulder, "Do you feel it inside you?"
NeekoPeeko ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:41:55 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm in Canada and most of the theatre I was in audibly groaned when he said that. Such a bad word-choice.
greenteaarizona_ ยท 146 points ยท Posted at 13:15:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This film felt much more like the beginning of an arch than the middle of it. In fact, the positions of the two sides are largely unchanged from the end of TFA to the end of TLJ.
The only real differences are that Snoke and Skywalker are both dead.
YAYSAY ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 01:42:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What exactly is the whole point of TFA now? The whole "map to skywalker" plot point seems silly now. Why were they even looking for him? So far, through 2 movies in the trilogy, nothing has really happened.
greenteaarizona_ ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 02:23:07 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly! It was so frustrating walking out of this movie knowing that TFA is lesser because of it.
wrc-wolf ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 10:55:26 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Instead of the middle piece of a trilogy, it felt like the 2nd installation in a 20+ film cinematic universe.
Jolron ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:01:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't agree actually. I feel like a lot of things you didn't expect to happen until the last film happened, Ben & Rey both got heaps of character development, and the fact that Snoke and Luke both are dead is huge. Now they both are left as the head figures of their respective sides, with a newfound responsibility. Not to mention the connection they now have, which makes everything all that more interesting...
greenteaarizona_ ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 18:03:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm thinking more towards the overall plot of the trilogy. They're talking about the war just beginning yet we're going into the final film of the trilogy.
There was great character development for the opposing leads but ultimately I think the film wasted Snoke, Luke, Finn, and Rose.
Jolron ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:06:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Agreed.
Asiriya ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 20:08:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No they didn't. They "bonded", but that hardly dragged them very far forwards.
Rey is still using the Dark side as her first option, to Luke's dismay. She's not confronted this at all. The assumption seems to be that "oh, she means well so it's all fine", but that's awful from a lore and plot perspective.
Ren is slightly better, his conflicts have changed his position, but as a character he hasn't really changed much. He was obsessed with Rey in TFA too.
Neknoh ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:05:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Obsession with Rey is one thing, however, he is no longer "split to the core", he is focused and truly lost, Leia even comments on it as Luke shows up. Kylo has gone from being torn between the light and the dark to being the leader of the dark side.
Meanwhile, Rey no longer goes for the dark side, she chose to go to Kylo to save him, not to destroy him, and she did not join him, his line of "let the past die" was for him to build something new, and for Rey to let go of her quest for her parents.
They are just starting out, but they are also just now finally becoming the characters they so easily (and boringly) could have been in the first movie.
camzabob ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 01:20:52 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly, it started with this super edgy evil guy who you could tell had some depth to his character, feeling the pull to the light. Then as TLJ went on, you felt he would eventually come to see more of the light and he was making good points to Rey (No Sith, No Jedi), and you could feel the hope that he'd join Rey and they'd team up and work toge- Nope, he's just evil now.
xorangeelephant ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 21:28:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Dont you think going from split and conflicted to just straight evil is such an uninteresting development?
Neknoh ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:40:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The statement was that there was none, not that it was somewhat uninteresting
[deleted] ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 16:57:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
After last time, im not entirely sure how I feel about another young slave boy with force powers in the galaxy.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:42:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Portmanteau_Pat ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 03:12:55 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It seemed so unlike SW to end with that. I get that the message is that everyone can be a Force user and the Jedi can never really end. But Star Wars has always been about the Skywalkers. The one who brings balance to the Force, I would have loved to see Rey be another Skywalker meaning that as long as there are Skywalkers alive they will bring balance to the Force (both light and dark).
Also WTF was with that conspicuous Rebel logo ring. I feel like it was straight out of a cereal box.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:04:08 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well fuck the Skywalkers. The force balance existed before them, was awful during them, and will continue after them. I found it perfect.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:15:56 on December 17, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was under the impression from the EU via my wife, that everyone is force sensitive, but some much more than others. Some species are very little natural and others have no senses but the force.
I viewed the last scene as almost an epilogue. The rebels got away and their store is being told and retold to spread hope. How else would the boys have know about Luke's "last stand" that they were reรซnacting?
BIGR3D ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:27:06 on December 28, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In the EU everyone is not force sensitive. Just connected to the force. A forced example would be Han's family kind of joking that Han's luck is really the force guiding him. With everything being connected to the force in some way, that is plausible.
As to your second sentence, that would be a cool idea if we weren't 2/3 through a trilogy. Rebels lost, but the stories of their heroics get passed on. In time, someone/thing/organization truly takes it to heart, and relights the spark. Maybe even generations later.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:37:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Kylo needs an apprentice...
mtbatey ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 19:15:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I have not seen TLJ yet but it sounds like there is a lot of hate towards this movie from the fans. I wonder what this will do for not only Episode 9 but also the trilogy that they just gave to Johnson. No doubt this movie will make buckets of money but if people get turned off by the next episode, that is bad news for Disney and Star Wars as a whole.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:38:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
If I had known Disney would buy Fox, I never would've given them my money.
AgreeableLion ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 04:26:57 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes you would have.
RebelSnowflake ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:26:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think there will be an issue with the trilogy they gave Rian Johnson as long as he only directs. Seriously, this movie was really well directed and had some of the best looking shots in the franchise. Most people were disappointed in the plot. I don't want to go into detail (since you haven't seen it yet), but story wise it was pretty weak.
RedofPaw ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 20:05:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's a vocal group here that dislike it. I enjoyed it a great deal.
AgreeableLion ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:29:13 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Vocal, as well as mashing the downvote button when people say 'actually I liked it OK'.
RedofPaw ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:02:04 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yup, dissenting voices will not be tolerated. All will fall in line.
Spartan_exr ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 22:11:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Angry vocal people, the majority that likes it donโt feel the need to go and write rants about it. The four guys and girls I watched it with absolutely loved it
JoelTLoUisBadass ยท 335 points ยท Posted at 14:26:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So many quips and jokes, what is this a marvel movie?
[deleted] ยท 151 points ยท Posted at 16:42:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Dragshisballsz ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 00:54:19 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
yeah but now we get the FF and xmen and deadpool in the mcu, isnt that awesome! ...g-guys? /s
people also think this means that disney can release the originals without the extra stuff added in over the years but dont realize that
A) most of the stuff was just improved effects, lighting, etc. which improved the films since the originals aged pretty badly (which is why they needed to be updated)
B) George Lucas owns all the distribution rights for the first 6 films so unless he wants it to happen, theyre never getting a re release.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:16:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Neither of those things are true. Lucas does not own the distribution rights and the VAST majority of changes to the OT were cgi additions or new composites. In fact, they even made some things worse, depending on the version (Saber colors were wrong in parts of ANH and ROTJ, matte boxes were more obvious than the originals, hell, Luke and Vader's sabers literally go through each other in ROTJ in at least one of the versions).
The films need a remaster, not additions and updated effects. They really didn't age poorly, honestly they are miles above the SFX being done for films in their time.
Osmodius ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 21:00:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That was probably my biggest complaint.
I don't mind some haha in my movies, but it doesn't feel like it fits the theme.
Big moral dilemma about whether the Jedi are good or bad, whether the universe can be saved oops cut to penguin owls borking and chewie eating a plastic roast chicken. Hahah.
moderate-painting ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 20:25:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The new Trek trilogy suffered the same fate. First lens flare came. And when lens flare was gone, jokes came.
GravitasIsOverrated ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:59:22 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
https://entertainment.theonion.com/trekkies-bash-new-star-trek-film-as-fun-watchable-1819594814
AncileBooster ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:18:41 on January 4, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Interestingly enough, both had JJ Abram's involvement
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:19:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
or a Star Wars Squad?
ColeTrickleVroom ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 22:31:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Reading all the initial reactions and reviews you knew it was coming. The moment Luke casually tossed away his lightsaber was when I knew it was going to be cringey.
straight_out_lie ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:30:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Haven't Starwars movies always had these? I admit, a lot were unfunny, but I don't know about out of place.
BoogieTheHedgehog ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 16:11:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Different styles of humour really. Half of the jokes felt traditional star warsy like "I changed my hair" and the "oh come on" when the escape ship blew up. The other half felt directly ripped from the disney/marvel style of movie. The first joke with Poe stalling for time by pretending not to hear felt like the most obvious, with a lot of the porg jokes too.
I was pretty worried at the start of the movie because the Poe conversation sounded directly ripped from GoTG.
straight_out_lie ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 16:32:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I agree. I think the comedy really damages when it's at the expense of the villains. Takes away from fearful icons they're supposed to be.
BoogieTheHedgehog ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 18:50:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I think the fear and mystery behind Snoke went completely out of the window with this movie, but not via comedy. Last we saw of the guy was a giant hologram, then it turns out he's a real person. Then he sits on his throne a bit and uses the force (lightning too) and dies.
Felt a bit strange given that TFA seemed to be setting Snoke up as "the" big bad guy that there's no chance of beating unless Kylo manages to overcome the darkness inside of him. Even in the start of TLJ Snoke was force choking officers without even being in the room. He was set up to be so powerful and died with less of a fight than his disposable guards.
There were countless theories wondering who he was and how he'd gotten so powerful. How was he going to be beaten? Sure the death came as a surprise - I didn't see it coming walking into the movie. But who's really going to take his place? Kylo isn't a fearsome and powerful opponent. Rey could probably go toe to toe with him at the end of TLJ.
straight_out_lie ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:26:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I sort of feel the same, except that's what I liked about it. Snoke's anticlimactic death just shows he isn't the big threat after all, and now we're left with an evershifting Kylo, and a seemingly angry Rei. With Snoke and Luke gone, this seems to be going for shades of grey rather than good vs evil (also illustrated through the arms dealer ship). I'm sure the moral standpoints will be better clarified in the next movie.
My issue with Snoke however (and with a few things like The First Order and The Resistance) is that it's nowhere near established enough. We have no idea who Snoke was (a sith lord presumably) and now it seems we never will know.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 02:57:06 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Luke just throwing his lightsaber, i mean, i laughed, but...
BioregenerativeLamp ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 04:36:30 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That felt like a star wars moment to me. But when it happened I thought it was a "lightsabers don't make us jedi" yoda-ish sort of moment and it wasn't and I got a bit disappointed
JoelTLoUisBadass ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 15:45:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Quips and jokes? Sure but this time it was overkill.
Sammyboy616 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:29:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Is has, but it never sacrificed tension for the sake of them. Thatโs the big difference. Nobodyโs cracking jokes during the Trench Run in IV, but in TLJ it was just too much.
a_potato_is_missing ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:20:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It seems it is very much a love hate for the jokes. I quite liked it because it needed a bit of counter to the brutality of the conflict.
Snark88 ยท 79 points ยท Posted at 16:35:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So this movie establishes two new things about the Force.
Anyone born Force Sensitive can use and execute Force skills (such as Force Pull or Force Persuasion) without any prior training, education, or even knowledge that such skills exist. So anyone wondering how Rey was able to pull off such great feats in the first movie, it's because The Force, ain't gotta explain shit.
Force Ghosts can affect the physical plane. Why Yoda, Anakin or Obi-Wan don't manifest within Snoke's Capital Ship and use the Force to tear it apart, alludes me.
[deleted] ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 21:37:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Luke was struggling to lift a damn rock until ESB.. but Rey, Leila, etc are controlling the weather, flying, using persuade, mind reading...
It's like they tossed out any limitations and just made the force into the power of god
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 00:58:57 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
saskatchewan_kenobi ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:43:51 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
yeah this movie just further disconnects the whole saga. How are anakin and vader these amazing mythological figures who were the best if the new movies just shit on them completely?
Osmodius ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:12:55 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"
A wizardThe force did it".thesirenlady ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:04:06 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly, I'm fine with that. In that instance of broom boy, imagine all those times you've gone to reach for something that you had an idea of where it was in relation to you but it was just an inch or two away from where you thought it was. He's never had that, the broom has just always 'been there'.
MarvelFan207 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:08:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Tbh I hated that scene. It shouldโve ended with everyone on the falcon.
thesirenlady ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:29:00 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah it wasn't a good end note. But I didn't hate the sentiment.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:10:45 on December 17, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was always the case that some are more force sensitive than others and it's often not genetics. Heck, there are species that hunt soley with the force and have no other senses.
jollyreaper2112 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:44:41 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
eludes
joavim ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:25:20 on December 21, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Eludes
therealsinky ยท 505 points ยท Posted at 11:00:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I felt like the films biggest problem was where it put it's impact. We have admiral Ackbar killed with little fuss, while a purple haired nobody gets a dramatic hyperspace kamikaze. We have what looks like a dramatic fight and possible send off for Luke, just for him to fizzle out of existence afterwards when it all looks clear. We have what looks like a sudden dramatic and unexpected send off for Leia, just for it to immediately be undone as she force flies herself back to safety. The same essentially happens again with Finn too, robbed of a dramatic death at the last moment, and then Snoke is the ultimate anticlimax. These moments just seemed to play off wrong (in my opinion anyway) and its a shame because the film was utterly fantastic with these things aside. It should of been Leia or Ackbar that went down with the kamikaze ship. That scene was amazing the way it was done but I feel like it would of left a truly lasting memory in a movie if they had at least put somebody significant behind it. For most folks these impactful moments just weren't quite right, and there was enough of them to bring down the films overall impact by the end of it. I just keep thinking on all those moments instead of the overall amazing sweep of the film.
๐๏ธ unipleb ยท 163 points ยท Posted at 11:25:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought purple-hair was getting valuable screen time because there was going to be an important passing of the reigns from Fischer. They seemed to have a bond. So I was slightly confused when she then got a dramatic death scene and is now gone.
Bennyboy11111 ยท 79 points ยท Posted at 11:53:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Poe was OP in his X-Wing but what a rash buffoon he was made to be by Leia twice (after destroying the dreadnaught losing bombers and then trying a coup). He learnt his lesson retreating the speeders on crait I guess
Superawesomejj ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 13:02:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I...
Actually, I really like this. I didn't piece that together.
lurker124356 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:39:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Failure is the best teacher etc
LDKCP ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:58:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The bombers would not have survived this film, so Poe was right to do what he did at the start, in hindsight of course. The coup/Finn plot nearly doomed them.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:01:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Poe was right with the coup as well. Why couldn't the Hunger Games general just tell the plan to him?
Poe was desperate cause it appeared they were just waiting for their deaths. So he went with what he thought was the only available option.
LDKCP ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:10:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He found out, so did the bad guys. Need to know basis.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 23:36:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why? Why would she have any reason to not trust the dude that almost killed himself a number of times for the rebellion?
LDKCP ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:43:24 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The guy who ended up starting a mutiny and ruined the plan as soon as he found out any information about it?
antennanarivo ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:10:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What you are describing is the opposite of how a well run military force works. The admiral was brash and rude to Poe, but it was well within her rights not to reveal her plans.
Hanzitheninja ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:57:38 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought it was because if she revealed the plan to Poe she knew he'd would do something drastic which of course he did anyway.
antennanarivo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:42:02 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, that makes perfect sense.
While skillful communication may have been able to solve the problem, it's not a guarantee that Poe would have come around to the idea. The last thing that she needed in a situation with that much time pressure was his insubordination.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:35:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That was not a well run military force. Those were the last people of the resistance alive. And they all thought they were going to die.
In a believable situation, the soldiers would kill the leaders and surrender.
luckystar2591 ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 13:15:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This was the problem with all the new characters. Force feed emotional connection with audience with hamfisted backstory....and they're gone....
jumpyg1258 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:49:41 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
For a second I thought we'd see a bunch of dinosaurs on the bridge with Laura Dern.
Adrien_Jabroni ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:04:31 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They def boned right?
wheresgreensaber ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:04:15 on December 19, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I go with "the gender-studies girl"
Waterfall_Jason ยท 265 points ยท Posted at 11:20:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
On the luke fizzing out thing.. I took that as him using literally everything he had to make that happen, to save the day and help the rebellion start anew, and once he did that he let go and passed on.. a heroic death
ChipMania ยท 201 points ยท Posted at 11:42:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why did Luke not tell them he was going to buy them time so they could escape instead of Po having to work it out? 'No, he must be fighting him for a reason, he must be buying us time so we can escape!' Wouldn't Luke explicitly say that to them all to make sure they get the fuck out of there.
This movie had so many small scenes that just didn't make sense or left me baffled that I made a list of them. Such a depressingly average star wars movie in my opinion.
ender23 ยท 65 points ยท Posted at 12:43:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs this shoehorned in Poe becoming a leader sorry they try to tell, where heโs not reacting to stuff but thinking it through. Itโs just not well done
Kwanzaa-Bot ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 12:34:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That was to show that Poe learnt his lesson after getting in the way and being useless the whole film. What a waste of a good character.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:04:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The bombers would have been destroyed afterwards anyway. And Poe's plan was better than doing nothing waiting to die.
ChipMania ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 12:46:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair on Poe that purple haired character could have easily highlighted her plan instead of keeping it secret, but of course we have to have tension between them for some reason. I felt nothing for most of the characters simply because they made retarded choices the entire film that actually left me hoping they would die.
When Rose passed out after kissing Finn I was laughing with my friend because she was finally dead, it was finally over - but no Finn had somehow dragged her stupid Asian body back to the bunker in front of the entire enemy line, just plot armor after plot armor.
imbasicallyhuman ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:08:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Please post the list, I'm so disappointed but feel like I'm forgetting some of the scenes when ranting about it.
ChipMania ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 14:40:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So far I have:
Purple haired commander woman not telling everyone her plan to cause unnecessary tension between her and Poe, since Poe is totally on board with it as soon as he's been told the plan
Poe being okay with suicide bombing in the first scene but then not being okay with it when it actually makes sense to suicide bomb their laser at the end - they would have all died if Luke didn't predictably deus ex machina to save the day
Leia using the force and looking like Mary Poppins to jetpack inside
CGI yoda sets fire to the archives from beyond the grave??
Chrome dome Fasma pathetically useless in yet another film
Rose somehow crashing into Finn and them both surviving even though Finn's plan was about to work to stop the laser. All for that kiss we've all been waiting for /s
Empire seemingly skimping on their army constantly to stop the rebels even though they have a massive army at their disposal, better just send 4 or 5 ATATs, should do the job.
Snoke (Most powerful force user in the galaxy) tricked by apprentice sneaky boi and killed with no proper backstory or interesting lore
Luke drinking from that weird cow's titty and snarling at Rey??
Chewie with those stupid fucking birds, really rinsed the shit out of that 'comedic' relief.
The race horses they use to escape look like the animal in Last Guardian, plus her taking off the harness and saying 'now it's worth it' as if we care about this plot line at all.
General bb-8 stuff, they've somehow managed to make a droid unit a mary sue character that can just do anything it wants. I liked bb-8 in the first film but the 'cooky' shit annoyed me after 5 times.
Them finding the master code breaker conveniently in a cell which they immediately break out, using some bit of shit he has in his pocket??
That's all I have for now but there are plenty more if I was being really pedantic.
imbasicallyhuman ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 15:54:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The only one I can disagree with is Yoda, I think he's become one with the force (like Obi-Wan and now Luke) so can still affect the physical world. Apart from that you're on the money, and I still feel like there are some others I'm forgetting. I can't get over how disappointing that film was, and your point about BB-8 is one that everybody else I've talked to has disagreed with me on. They're using a helper droid as some kind of superhero.
ChipMania ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 16:11:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It managed to take down 4 guards and control an AT-AT unit, might as well make it a jedi at this point.
EDIT: I didn't actually mind Yoda that much I just thought it looked a bit retarded, still had a good laugh and enjoyed it I think
Professional_Bob ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:59:36 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The First Order =/= The Empire
They were a hardcore splinter group who broke off when the Empire was defeated. They may have practically destroyed the Republic, but they are not that powerful. They don't control the galaxy and are yet to capitalise on defeating the Republic.
LDKCP ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:02:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, explain that one.
DaLateDentArthurDent ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:44:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I disagree with your first point. Haldo had no reason to tell Poe the plan. Heโd been demoted
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 23:07:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Every person in that ship was thinking they were about to die.
In a situation like that, it would be very likely that the crew would kill the leaders and surrender.
FuujinSama ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 23:38:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When keeping things need to know might cause a take over a good leader doesn't keep things need to know.
Is trying to make a point about the chain of command worth jeopardizing your mission and putting hundreds in absolute panic for their lives?
Just fucking tell people. What will they do? Broadcast the mission to the empire? They can do that from the planet if that's the worry. It makes no sense.
DaLateDentArthurDent ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 08:25:01 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree, it was frustrating that she wouldnโt just tell him
ChipMania ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:48:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why make it seem like she was just doing nothing when she could have literally just been like 'right we're abandoning ship to this planet because they can't track our smaller vessels' to the entire crew instead of keeping it secret? The entire crew were skeptical of her, she made them all turn on her for no reason at all.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 10:57:45 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They don't. If you'd watched the film you'd have noticed the multiple scenes where the other commanders say their goodbyes and say that they hope this plan works.
The mutiny is shown to be literally just Poe and a few of his friends. What movie were you watching?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:32:05 on December 27, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:47:45 on December 27, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They did. Notice how Poe and everyone is instantly fucked and have to resort to locking down the bridge?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 10:46:54 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The hell are you talking about? Poe's first reaction is to instigate a mutiny, calling her a coward and a traitor for doing so.
Doesn't happen.
Puppet, not cgi, and it's been established as canon that force ghosts can interact with the world.
Absolutely no evidence of this.
They had just lost their largest ship with the majority of their forces, did you even watch the movie?
Nobody has ever said this.
Nobody promised this either.
Holy shit, remember the time they conveniently found Han Solo, master pilot, just randomly at a bar somewhere with a shitty ship that could totally take on the empire?
Berserker_Punk ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:38:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What? You think one man is just going to walk out there with a lazersword and face down the entire First Order and win?
ChipMania ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:03:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You'll never get me to change my mind! R2 shows clip Training tomorrow!
Zunthe ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:30:36 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was horribly directed in my opinion. The story moved along well but I still can't shake how mediocre of a movie it was and how bad it was to sit through most of it. It had some great moments but outside of that it was a very weak film.
Choekaas ยท 36 points ยท Posted at 12:15:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I agree. And on another note, throughout the whole movie we see him being bound to his "human self". Travelling up and down that steep island. Catching fish. Getting green milk. There's no sci-fi technology, he lives like a regular man in an ancient time. At the end he escapes his physical boundaries, his old worn-out human body, and becomes one with The Force. Like projecting himself to Kylo as a much younger Luke as well.
I loved his comments to Kylo Ren, that no matter what, Luke will be there. Echoing what Kenobi said that striking him down made him even more powerful. And when Luke told Kylo that, that brought us a scarier and more immense power than saltoing and shouting on Mustafar or something like that.
TheLast_Centurion ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:19:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Amazing thing would be if Kylo's and Rey's connection was stronger and stronger and then he would be able to cross the bridge and cross to her and Luke.
We see he is impacted by raindrops, so one would expect something out of it :/
SneakyBadAss ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:50:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Maybe Kylo can still see Solo? He killed him in a anger to be fair.
Dragshisballsz ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:28:18 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
or he couldve just showed up and done it in person and had a satisfying, emotionally charged battle with kylo and reunited with the good guys and it wouldve been a great part of the film. but as usual they chose not to do that because then people would still be focused on luke and not their terrible new characters so they killed him off instead and now everyones pissed.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:47:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
he will probably comeback as a force ghost though
Invective_Detective ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:57:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I noticed in the first Rey and Kylo scene Kylo says โyouโre not projecting yourself, that would kill youโ or something to that effect. Which sets that up in a way
1The_Mighty_Thor ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:05:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So he basically did what Obi-Wan did?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:59:26 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
His battle with Kylo mirrored Obi Wan vs Darth Vader so much
Fnhatic ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:36:38 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was hoping for some Alec Guinness impersonation to accompany Yoda.
LatexSanta ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:39:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In other words, the emotional roadmap of the movie was all over the place.
That's a pretty big flaw.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:16:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Speaking of the kamikaze, why make complicated plans to destroy death star 3.0 if you could've just flown a ship into it at hyperspeed?
nommas ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:16:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah if purple hair lady was just replaced with Ackbar it would have done the same job but with a little more impact I feel. She didn't bring anything really new to the table and Ackbar doesn't really have a developed personality in the movies. We don't see him often enough to know anything other than he is a driven and skilled leader.
So why not make Ackbar the driven and skilled leader in this movie? Purple hair lady was neat and all, but swap her with Ackbar and the movie would benefit.
Dragshisballsz ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:26:34 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
there was no impact because the characters arent compelling and the story sucks, would you honestly care if any of the characters besides those from the pre-disney era died? i know i wouldnt and its because theyre just so unlikable, they have almost no endearing qualities or scenarios that make you root for them like the previous movies have.
StrangerDangler ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 12:28:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I completely agree. Star Wars should be epic. They had so much room to be special and I can't understand why they chose to be lackluster in so many different parts. I read great reviews and I wanted to love this movie, but it was just painfully average. That forced romance with Finn followed by the most awkwardly shoehorned kiss I've ever seen.
LatexSanta ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 13:42:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I never expected anything less than mediocrity and missed opportunities after I was disappointed in The Farce Awakens, tbh.
Disney Wars is a mediocre pile of forced diversity, Mary Sue and could-have-been, with some excellent stuff thrown in, just to tease you.
I, for one, refuse to see it at all. Disney has gotten enough of my money on the 2 or 3 Marvel movies I've seen thus far.
dandaman910 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 12:38:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There was no reason for that purple hair lady to exist. It was clearly a "look women in power" from Disney. So contrived. If Leia and admiral akbar weren't there then she would be relevant.
confusedbookperson ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 12:43:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You know what I'd have liked to see? Ackbar survives, assumes command and opts to stay on the ship and sacrifice himself, and when doing the hyperspace kamikaze says to himself "now this is a real trap" or something. The guy needed a real scene.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 13:39:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why are fans so enamored with Ackbar anyway? Doesn't he have a small handful of lines in the OT and was a big meme for a while? There's nothing special about him.
WHYWOULDYOUEVENARGUE ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:59:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with you, but would it not be more elegant to use him as the kamikaze instead of using a new character? I think we'd react more passionately if Ackbar had guns pointed at him by Poe's loyal team.
Whocares1944 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:16:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A good way to send of Leia would have been to have her kamikaze herself into the ship. Not pink haired lady.
lowrider88 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:46:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think they were just trying to be different, and subvert those classic โclicheโ death tropes...but somehow that made it feel less like Star Wars
rebb1t ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:27:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yea fking racist bullshit, heโs a fking Admiral !!
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:41:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ackbar has about three lines in the OT and people wouldn't even know his name, if it wasn't for the its a trap meme. I have no reason to care about this dude. I don't know his character, except for his amazing observation skills, and he is a weird space alien so it's extra difficult to relate to him. I didn't like purple hair lady, but it least she has some sort of arc.
boobsRlyfe ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 02:41:27 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So...does this movie make force fucking canon? Like instead of touching hands...could they fuck? Through the force? Is this how the force works?
BIGR3D ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 01:38:59 on December 28, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Anakin's mother must have been force raped then.
boobsRlyfe ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 05:57:06 on December 28, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
omg.
you think it was Snoke?
which would make Kyle Renaldo his great grandson
RumHamTrollFoot ยท 46 points ยท Posted at 18:57:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It hurts me to say that I didn't like this film, played it so safe and so many fake out deaths. For such a long film, nothing really particularly happened. I'd argue there is a plot, but not a story.
For people saying they're not sure if they like it and need to watch it again, to me isn't that saying you don't like it? If your gut instinct is meh or not sure, surely that says all you need to know. Its an emotional reaction
highway_robbery82 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:03:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
For films like this which I've been looking forward to for some time, I usually have to give them a 2nd chance. The 1st viewing I spend subconsciously assessing it against my own expectations - is the story/tone/characters/score etc what I wanted? So my initial reaction might not be fair, because part of my experience is from judging it based on what I wanted/expected rather than on it's own terms. The 2nd viewing is sometimes more balanced because those expectations have gone out the window already, so I watch it for what it is, not what I wanted it to be. Sometimes it pays off (I prefer TFA now to when I first saw it), sometimes it doesn't (Jurassic World, alas, did not reveal hidden depth or charm).
RumHamTrollFoot ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:54:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No I get that completely and each to their own I suppose. However, when a critic goes to watch a film, they sit down and watch it once and review it. They don't sit there and watch it a million times and review it. You have to be able to judge a film on its merits and demerits the first and only watch. You may take away more from a film on repeat viewings, but a movie also has to and should be able to engage on all levels on a single viewing.
highway_robbery82 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:13:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
True, but with films like this I'm watching as a fan, not a film critic! I can assess films objectively but when it comes to things like Star Wars my thoughts on pacing/cinematography/what it brings to the genre etc are less important than, say, whether Yoda looks weird or if I liked what they did with characters I've grown up with.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:39:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:46:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
you're only giving it that many chances because of Disney's marketing machine
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:52:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, i'm giving it that many chances because i have the opportunity to see it several times for 0 charge.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 21:00:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
your time is valuable
AttackVektor ยท 46 points ยท Posted at 18:58:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like this was a legitimately awful 1 hour movie followed by a solid 1.5 hour movie. It was so bizarre. Every time Rey or Kylo was on screen I was engaged, and every time they werenยดt I was bored witless.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:15:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
ThirdRook ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:38:52 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You joking? That initial scene with Poe taking on the dreadnought was amazing, then they followed it up with Snoke flinging Hux around like a puppet. And then an awesome "do we run or do we fight? Yes." scene.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:49:51 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That really ticked me off. It just made Hux look like a pantomime villain. Jokes like that took me out of the movie, I expect stuff like that from Guardians of the Galaxy (Who did it better, because it actually makes sense when they did it) not Star Wars.
Didn't exactly helps Hux's cases... I just can't take him seriously and it spoils it. Makes me miss villains like Count Dooku.
Honestly can't remember that bit.
ADarkKnightRises ยท 456 points ยท Posted at 13:21:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's a bit insulting that disney thinks audiences needs jokes and pointless cute fury animals every 5 minutes to keep them focused and not lose their attention span.
rushworld ยท 181 points ยท Posted at 14:22:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Whenever a new cute creature or funny character came on screen my first thought was "oh, Disney want to sell THIS character as a toy now..."
[deleted] ยท 79 points ยท Posted at 17:14:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Let's be fair, Star Wars as a method to sell toys is not a uniquely Disney thing.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:52:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, havent they sold Star Wars toys forever?
MurderousPaper ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:51:07 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
literally since the release of the original. Anyone that thinks these developments are new to Disney are deluding themselves.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:57:36 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Haters gonna hate
QuickSteam7 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:56:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's the reason any of the films exist at all... How can you become a billionaire selling toys if you have no movies to make toys based on?
Blortholth ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:19:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Even the Ewoks had a purpose within the plot. They capture the group because they are outsiders like the Empire, they get them on their side and show they aren't bad, and then they work together to beat the empire. The porgs and crystal critters are just there to say OMG SO CUTE I NEED TO BUY THE PLUSHIE TOY. Same with Phasma, OMG THE CHROME STORMTROOPER SO COOL OH WAIT SHE DIDNT DO ANYTHING BUT LOOK COOL.
blk-cffee ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 19:25:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ewoks were made to save money on effects and make star wars more kid friendly and set up a new kids franchise. Your complaints are old news and we have been saying the same stuff since before your time, even about the original series.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:33:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
So very unlike Boba Fett, Jawas, mouse droids, every none R2-D2 droid or the fact that basically every single background character has at least two toy varients, a written backstory and an EU book
Bad_Fashion ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 18:33:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Evil BB-8 was the biggest offender in my opinion.
chiefyk ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:35:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Iโve never seen reddit be so cynical about a film before.
Stibben ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:30:55 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I felt like I was watching Fantastic Beasts.
Mamsies ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 20:58:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I actually really liked the Porgs up until Rey left the island. Every single time they appeared after that just felt so forced and annoying.
Like, during the epic chase sequence through the crystal mines on Crait, there were like three random shots of a Porg just screaming at the camera for no reason.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 01:03:14 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Formula works, The Formula is profitable. We must never veer from The Formula.
LittleNova ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 14:18:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ugh I was so annoyed by the constant jokes during the first arc and then weโve got these cute animals which were ok for a little bit but got tired incredibly quick and just became more annoying. It all felt so out of place and turned some moments that couldโve been great into just eye-rolling ones.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 22:58:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It honestly felt like more like Spaceballs in places.
ImmortanJoe ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 01:53:48 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You'd be surprised how many people buy this shit. When McDonalds here in Malaysia had some stupid Minion toy promo, people practically rioted.
Also rather morbid how they showed a proper roasted creature that Chewie was about to eat, while the other creatures wailed.
JensonInterceptor ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:23:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Didn't work with the kids I saw in the theatre. they were struggling by the end
moderate-painting ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:31:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's a family movie because Disney. Must entertain kids too.
jurwell ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 15:05:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Star Wars has always had silly fun bits in it, I canโt believe the number of people who think this is either new, exclusively a Disney addition, or both. Wisecracking and slapstick have always been there right from A New Hope and both are an integral part of the way Star Wars tells its stories.
[deleted] ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 18:47:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Most of the humor in the OT also aided characterization e.g. all of Han's witty comments.
NathanielHudson ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:50:36 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Wrench falling on Han's head
Yoda doing slapstick with R2
R2D2 and swamp monsters
Backpack C3P0
Blind Han talking to the wall rather than Jabba and Leah having to turn him around
Blind Han hitting boba fett by mistake
"How are we doing?" "Same as always" "That bad, hunh?" "You're going to be executed immediately" "Good, I hate long waits"
Jabba's weird rat-monkey thing
seventeentwentyfive ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:38:18 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm alright with humor in Star Wars, but there were more quips and gags in the first 45 minutes of TLJ than there were in the entire original trilogy.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 10:04:06 on December 20, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Agreed. Humor is fine. Too much humor is not. Also, a painful amount of the jokes did not land.
Pioness ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:33:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was waiting for this comment. So many people hate it because of the jokes. Like the originals didnโt have jokes or werenโt downright cheesy at times? Come on.
thetossfromanon ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 15:50:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
THANK YOU!
ChappieBeGangsta ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:09:27 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well, the furry animals are for the kids and the toy salees.
Dragshisballsz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:45:33 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
well they keep making the same movie with different characters and it keeps making billions each time so they must be right. they make movies for the average moviegoer, not the fan or person who park their brain at the door when watching a movie. dont get me wrong i like mindless blockbusters as much as the next guy, but holy shit people act like theyre some masterpiece when theyre really not. these movies are the same level as michael bays transformers movies, mindless action and bland characters you can project yourself onto.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:00:14 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Are you talking about Return of the Jedi.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:23:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
the most important audience for Disney does need those things.
Berserker_Punk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:36:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Had kids in my cinema showing who were getting pretty restless during the island scenes especially as it dragged on. Porgs were placed there specifically to keep small children focused during the long exposition scenes.
Death_Star_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:02:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It is. But it really isnโt our grandfatherโs or fatherโs Star Wars anymore.
Itโs for a new generation of 8-14 year olds.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:58:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There are kids watching too, man, don't forget. Kids don't have a great attention span and when there is a lot of exposition going on for adult audiences, that stuff keeps them interested. They were nowhere near as bad as Jar Jar, at least they weren't actually characters.
I thought the little puffins would be annoying when I saw the trailer, but they were fine.
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 18:48:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
OT managed to do it without stupid humor
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:25:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was mostly referring to the cute animals, I can handle them, the marvel-esque humour was painful.
slurpie10 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:07:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Is it insulting when George does it?
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:24:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Watch the OT again, mate.
slurpie10 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:25:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
As if I'm referring to the OT.
procastatgatec ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:09:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Who do you think they are shooting for with this?
Riddy86 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:38:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Star Wars has always had cute furry animals, don't blame Disney for something Lucas started with Ewoks, I know it's cool to hate Disney no w a days but come on.
crabbypattyqw ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 18:50:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
you missed the "every 5 minutes" part in the comment.
in last battle the korgs or borgs were shown in every clip of the falcon, and when we didn't see them, we heard them.
LDKCP ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 20:35:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In the last act of Jedi there were Ewoks everywhere...
Riddy86 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:38:57 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly my point.
LDKCP ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:32:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Like this is a Disney thing and not a Star Wars thing. Ewoks! Ewoks!
carmicheal ยท 119 points ยท Posted at 15:36:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I strongly disliked Rose, like what was the point of her? The only mission she and Finn decided to do almost caused the entire annihilation of the rebel army. She herself became a traitor by going against the orders . And the romance was just weird and made no sense. There was no inclination beforehand that she had any romantic feeling whatsoever and now she suddenly loves Finn?! Saving Finn was brave but she didn't know Luke would arrive and Finn's sacrifice would have helped the rebels save time so again she would be inadvertently responsible for deaths of the remaining rebels. She basically saved 1 guy but only to doom the rest.
The only thing I liked about the romance of is that this might mean there won't be a Finn and Rey romance although I am seriously dreading a twilight esque love triangle.
[deleted] ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 21:06:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rose was there for diversity points
rmw6190 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 00:31:33 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
they wanted a more diverse cast. But they also didnt want the white girl rey to be romantic with the black guy finn. So they had Finn get with a random asian.
The movie is very progressive. Captain Kirk had an interracial kiss in the 60s
hylas89 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 05:20:00 on December 20, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Correct. Now theyโre clearing the way to a more racially appropriate pairing with whites like Po or maybe Kylo.
theshadowfax ยท 42 points ยท Posted at 15:48:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Token Asian character. That is pretty much her only function, to add more diversity.
Don't get me wrong, diversity in films is essential to good storytelling and to adding representation to people of different backgrounds... but when it's so obviously thrown in just as a feel-good token it entirely ruins the purpose.
carmicheal ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 15:52:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I kinda feel they should have sticked with Paige. It would have been fun to see a badass female pilot. She was a cool character.
Edit: and introducing new diverse characters isn't bad but Rose took up waaaaaayy to much screen time compared to other new and more interesting characters.
stabbybit ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 00:06:21 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I've joked you can almost see the scribblings in the margin of the script with numerically delineated pre-selections for the gender and race of the extras and bit actors provided by Central Casting for each scene.
And then on the opposite side, everybody in the First Order is white, with the most Aryan leader possible, and the only black guy we've ever seen is the one who quits and joins the Resistance without so much as a shred of character development.
That's not inclusivity. That's literally manipulating the preconceived biases of the audience with coldly calculated Conspicuous Diversity. The Resistance looks like a photo I can find on Shutterstock.
Waoeden ยท 49 points ยท Posted at 16:07:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
" Diversity in movies is ESSENTIAL to good storytelling"
Nope. It is not
[deleted] ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 18:08:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 18:28:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Depends on the story being told 100%.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 18:44:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 18:56:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Im just agreeing with the guy who said diversity isnt essential for a movie. In star wars it makes sense but in alot, aaaaalot, of movies it just feels forced
TSMasochism ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 03:37:25 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Us minorities are able to relate to characters based on their personalities and deeds. We have the ability to see past skin color and ethnicity. Thanks for sticking up for us, though. Really need more people like you waving that flag of condescension around.
Waoeden ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 22:57:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There is no such thing as ''relating'' to a character. This is completely bollocks.
The casting should make sense and that is all. And you said it is ''essential'' to a good story telling.
Does godfather needs a black person to be good story telling? Does 2001 needs a native american to be good story telling? Does raging bull needs a chinese to be good story telling?
Does the original star wars need transexuals do be good story telling?
What you are saying is that being a white men by itself brings homogeneity to the plot. That is dim, naive or stupid at best.
So no, a story does NOT need diversification be good story telling. That is PC bullcrap.
el_throwaway_returns ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:16:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What does race have to do with relating to a character? You think Finn or black people in Star Wars have the same kind of experiences that black people in America experience?
[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 19:28:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
el_throwaway_returns ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:32:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's on you. I can watch Black Panther and not feel alienated.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:35:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
carmicheal ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:50:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I as a white person can't really relate to this in the same way but I feel it in a similar way as a woman with strong female characters. Princess Leia was and will always be a icon but she was one of the few. I was so excited when they introduced Rey and was kinda blown away by Jyn and to be honest I couldn't care less what race rose is or the color of her skin. But I honestly think they did her a disservice by making such a poorly developed character, they had a chance but messed it up.
bedbugsex ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 15:56:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was also nice to see the casting of a fairly unattractive female actor which isn't played for laughs or a plot point I guess.
Declanhx ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 20:42:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
There is such a thing as TOO much diversity.
Cast: Girl, Black, Chinese.
Any evil cast: White, Always white. Hux, phasma, kylo , snoke...
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 23:26:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not really. For some reason there are always a lot of asians in the First Order.
Declanhx ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 23:33:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Tell that to the other guy replying
carmicheal ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:52:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
But in this case it makes sense to have mostly white villains. The empire to me at least seemed very similar to the third reich. Only the sith seem to be more diverse with their species.
Declanhx ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:11:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Donโt you see how racist that is towards whites?. โMinorities canโt be evil, just white menโ
carmicheal ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:15:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I never said minorities can't be evil but George Lucas, production staff, and StarWars.com have stated that many themes, plots, designs, and even terms used in Star Wars were indeed inspired by Hitler and Nazi Germany and considering those guys were famously ALL WHITE it's not odd nor racist that the empire members are also mostly all white. However Finn has proven that the first order at least is possibly more diverse with their human born troopers.
Edit: and please get over yourself, the creators received a shit ton of hate for having a black storm trooper in the force awakens trailer because it wasn't canon enough to the originals. Seems that no matter what they they do people will get angry about stuff. First they don't like their troopers being black and then they don't like them being white.
Edit2 a word
Declanhx ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:23:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Are you completely forgetting who jango fett is on purpose or?
carmicheal ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:31:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No I am not forgetting him don't see why you think I am. Did you completely forget how pissed people were when the force awakens teaser was released ?
Declanhx ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:51:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You forgot him because jango is the stormtrooper model, and he isnโt aryan.
carmicheal ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:54:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Only for the clone troopers in the prequels.Over time the clones were retired from Imperial service, leaving the stormtrooper ranks open to birth-born human recruits.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stormtrooper
You seem to be contradicting yourself. It feels like you are angry the bad guys are all white and that it is racist and then you prove yourself wrong by proving not all the bad guys are aryan
Declanhx ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:23:52 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
While you make up your fake narratives and get offended Iโm gonna be watching the grand tour. Cya.
carmicheal ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:11:56 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Okidoki enjoy:)
[deleted] ยท 154 points ยท Posted at 12:55:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
tlvrtm ยท 47 points ยท Posted at 16:48:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Waaay too much story crammed in there. Think about TFA's opening scenes with Rey scavenging the planet for spare parts. Nothing even close to that in this movie. There's a sense of confidence to just letting scenes play out without dialogue, this movie doesn't do any of that.
[deleted] ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 20:12:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
People forget the quieter moments in TFA. Several scenes have no dialogue: Rey's daily life, most of the final duel, and, as usual, the whole ending.
Vingle ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:59:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with your points about quiet scenes, but the ending was sort of undermined by the camera spinning around in a helicopter.
yupyepyupyep ยท 247 points ยท Posted at 13:16:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I have to say that I enjoyed TFA more than TLJ.
tlvrtm ยท 33 points ยท Posted at 16:46:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Same, and if you look at the polls we're not alone. TFA has an 8, TLJ has just above 6 at time of writing (only 60 votes in to be fair).
TFA was unoriginal but it did a great job introducing characters, letting scenes breathe and having an overall story that makes sense. This did not.
tggoulart ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:11:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What polls?
tlvrtm ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:12:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Stickied comment at top of thread -- https://youpoll.me/3751/
Here's the TFA one http://www.polljunkie.com/poll/kxbwdr/star-wars-the-force-awakens/view
tggoulart ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:15:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks. And yeah I remember much better reception for TFA at the time on reddit so that makes sense
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 23:00:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I enjoyed them exactly as much as each other, which is to say, not very. Rogue One is the only legit movie of the new ones.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 23:27:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think Rogue One is still the best movie out of the new ones. By far.
MartelFirst ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 19:29:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To me it made me dislike TFA. Showed how unoriginal and "safe" TFA was in comparison.
People in this thread are saying that TLJ just looks like a Marvel film. I don't know where they get that. TFA was by definition a crowd pleaser. TLJ went somewhere different. Took some risks.
That's naturally just my opinion.
yupyepyupyep ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 23:20:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Took some risks and some lazy shortcuts, too.
Death_Star_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:08:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Same here, and that frightens me because I find TFA very hard to rewatch.
jumpyg1258 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:55:59 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah TFA by far for me.
BioregenerativeLamp ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:46:17 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I liked this one more. I don't feel the slightest need to rewatch TFA ever again. I've tried to prepare for this one and stopped after they fall on the planet. But I do think I can get out more of a rewatch of this one. Also I was way more engaged with the story on this one and was surprised more.
_Ishmael ยท 45 points ยท Posted at 21:09:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm very confused by how the critics seem to be really enjoying the film but pretty much everyone I've talked to, and all the commenters on here, have had some pretty major issues with the film. Did we see different versions or something? I hear one critic say it might be on par with TESB but I really wouldn't go that far.
astraeos118 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 02:10:51 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hmmm maybe its because actual critics dont exist or are found on youtube with a usually smaller subscriber base?
Anybody who works for magazines or is in a position to make money off being a critic is being paid by Disney, almost unquestionably.
n1ysg81m84wvwux1 ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 21:44:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe some of them were paid off to write positive reviews.
blaineh2 ยท 97 points ยท Posted at 15:54:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I cant believe I am saying this about a Star Wars movie but I am not sure I even liked it. So much just didn't sit right and the Leia surviving a flight through the vacuum of space was the start of a catalogue of issues I have with the movie. Many of which left me scratching my head, cringing or laughing for the wrong reasons. Also the fleeting physical action scenes fell completely flat for me. There just didn't seem to be any sense of grandeur, tension or stakes with it.
I could go on but I need more time to process what I have just seen. All in all I feel massively underwhelmed about it all right now
ThirdRook ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:42:05 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You dont find watching the resistance go from a fleet with bombers and fighters and cruisers to just the Millenium Falcon with 12 ish people to be grandeur or tense? Slowly watching all the rebels die in the black of space?
chx_ ยท 83 points ยท Posted at 21:24:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Did... did I watch a different movie than the reviewers? This was a bad movie by any standards, Star Wars or not.
Like, holy shit, if that general told Poe what she plans, so much trouble could've been saved. Heck you could've cut Finn and the entire plotline out without much lost.
Ever heard of Chekhov's gun? In this case, X-Fighter? Seriously, we saw Luke's X Fighter underwater and we didn't get a homage of Luke lifting it this time?
So we had Supreme Leader Snoke without any backstory in the Force Awakens (despite there is only two Sith, master and apprentice so who's this guy) and here, we get ... bupkiss.
What a shit closure to Luke, seriously, winking out on a remote planet alone? Here's a deserving fate: after said homage, he flies in to the planet , lands, swipes away the walkers like nothing (we need him to show off!) and as he feels Rey escaping he lifts his saber in another homage to receive the killing blow.
Oh and how did Rey got to the Falcon and down to the planet without the First Order whose entire might is present realizing?
Oh and jedis and lifting and Rey -- so glad Rey have managed to lift any number of boulders without any training. That's just swell. Speaking of Jedi capabilities, Yoda's force ghost affected the physical plane?? OK, one small brownie point for the clever wording of Rey taking the sacred jedi books but one gigantic negative for Yoda affecting reality. If he could do that why didn't all the Force Ghosts we know of (Qui Gon Jinn, Obi Wan Kenobi, Yoda and Anakin Skywalker), I dunno, appeared in Snoke's chamber decades ago and tore him to very small pieces? Where's the logic? Yes, we accept that different rules exist, it's a space opera and that some rules are soft defined , it's not hard sci fi but still, there are rules or there's nothing to root for because anything goes. This is not even moviemaking 101, this is story telling 101 and older than civilization itself.
Speaking of winking out, gosh, why didn't Leia say something like, "you are the rebellion now" , lies down and winks out with a characteristic green border to show she is a force ghost now, too.
That multi boobed scene, gosh, save us from that crap and show more training scenes. If we are told there will be three, gosh damn the hack, show us three!
Did this movie get raving reviews because Luke was not kicking ass this time and not playing a straight Yoda? Geez, wow, fourty years pass and we can make a different movie now, everyone please praise us? The story was weak, the cutting of different plotlines together terrible at times,
thesirenlady ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 01:11:23 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They even said that she took Snokes personal craft. So weird to then see her pop up on the Falcon and that other ship is just never seen
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 22:01:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The X-Wing was established so that we'd believe Luke actually left the planet.
theivoryserf ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:41:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
small mercies
[deleted] ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 23:49:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did anyone else feel like there were two different cinematographers on this film? There were some amazing shots and the there are some which felt like a fan film.
ED_ofthe_DEAD ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:53:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Dude i noticed that. There was a moment in the trenches on Krait i thought looked really cheap.
TheCrystalShards ยท 54 points ยท Posted at 11:48:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So did anyone else notice that one of the Resistance ships was a Starcraft battlecruiser? They weren't in the original Star Wars were they?
Also I must have been more effective at avoiding spoilers then I thought because Benicio del Toro came right the fuck out of nowhere for me. Fun surprise though.
Minscota ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 12:18:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I did and no they werent.
TheCrystalShards ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:18:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks! I wasn't sure who was copying who.
samrpacker ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:23:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was really hyped when I saw Justin Theroux at the poker table, but then they switched him out for Benicio Del Toro and I was like, oh so this guy is gonna be REALLY important - and then he wasn't...
TheCrystalShards ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:35:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah he kind of disappeared. I'm thinking del Toro shows up again in part 3. Bit of a waste otherwise.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:17:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
TheCrystalShards ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:37:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
For sure. I was the only one in my cinema to notice but it's a nice nod as a Starcraft fan.
Zaldrizes ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:57:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
than*
TheCrystalShards ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:04:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Dang it.
[deleted] ยท 178 points ยท Posted at 17:12:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think this might be the most overrated film of the year.
dizzee_raskolnikov ยท 48 points ยท Posted at 17:31:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That applies to every Disney release. It's beyond a coincidence now, they must be buying reviewers
[deleted] ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 23:03:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I wonder if reviewers are afraid of getting blacklisted by Disney, especially now when they're getting more power over the industry.
Probably not but I like to have a little conspiracy theory.
Portmanteau_Pat ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 01:34:00 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Conspire me, daddy.
[deleted] ยท 57 points ยท Posted at 19:07:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 19:16:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
yeah BvS besides the awful villains was enjoyable. And at least it was original and told a coherent story.
phasE89 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:47:14 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Tinfoil hat on - apart from this unofficial discussion thread, in every other major discussion thread there are a lot more comments praising TLJ to heavens than criticising it. Very suspicious...
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:04:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well, look at what they did to LA Times. At this point I can't trust any reviews anymore. :(
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:12:00 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Spot the DC fanboy
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 19:23:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
and GoTG2
g0kartmozart ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:59:11 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I liked GoTG2. I went in wanting dumb and dumb is what I got.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:48:29 on December 17, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wonder Woman.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 03:12:19 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's Wonder Woman FYI
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:40:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
V13T ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:07:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
All time when?
fgdadfgfdgadf ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:59:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When it gets to 9.0 at IMDB
Naturescoldcut ยท 84 points ยท Posted at 14:05:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I honestly wasn't sure at times whether I was watching a Star Wars film or a Space Balls one.
aNieke4bToSega8cIomu ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 02:39:58 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
i was thinking this is like family guy: blue harvest
epicluca ยท 340 points ยท Posted at 11:30:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I just found so many things wrong with this movie. From the moment Leia force flew her way out of space I knew I was in for a conflicted journey. Everytime it was a Rey/Luke scene I was excited, then when it was Finn/Rose it just felt like I was watching the prequels. Honestly, that woman alien with the huge tits? That was prequel level of humor. Deejay's comedic stuttering bordered on Jar-Jar Binks level of annoying for me, and really it all just felt contrived. ALSO why was Holdo just a Professor Umbridge knockoff for an hour? That was frustrating. Yeah I get that she had good intentions and Poe should have listened to her, but don't force it on the audience too. She goes from a side-villain within the resistance that you want to fuck off to a sudden hero which means there's no emotion when she sacrifices herself!
The Yoda stuff was cool, the Luke thing at the end was... weird, the whole Snoke thing was just pointless.
I saw a double bill of TFA before TLJ and I went in with so many expectations, in the end all I got was a sense of dissatisfaction, but also wonder of what the hell IX will be about.
nashist ยท 111 points ยท Posted at 12:38:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Amazing, I agree with every single thing you said. I sometimes find it hard to explain myself and you just said everything I wanted to say about this movie.
I would also throw in the overuse of creatures (not just porgs) bordering on Pokemon/Fantastic Beasts level, only to be useless and distract from the actual movie.
epicluca ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 13:12:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, on the creatures: in TFA it was great seeing the gritty creatures on Jakku but that was all we needed, the practical effects as fan service for nostalgia to the old movies. In this one it was just a cringe fest of weird sexual animals and obvious shoehorns for merchandise. I guess the only useful creature were the crystal foxes, for leading the resistance out of that cave.
nashist ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:41:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
By the crystal foxes I was so fed up with creatures that I just wanted them to fuck off. When they actually had a purpose I told myself they could as simple have put in some plans of the base that were not destroyed and they followed a tunnel on it and it was still blocked
TheLast_Centurion ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:22:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I just rolled my eyes when suddenly "no way of getting out according to plans" became "well, actually, there is a way out in the plans, but its just a maze."
TheCaramelMan ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 22:19:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You're telling me that nipple monster that gave out blue milk wasn't useful?
CurbedEnthusiasm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:38:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly, for me, the porgs were the best parts of the movie. At least I got a laugh and a smile. The rest was pretty dull.
JaredHasAids ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 12:52:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You know if Holdo told Poe about the plan they wouldn't ended up in such as shit situation.
thegreatbritish ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:52:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I watched a double bill too and found the difference in tone really jarring. While TFA played it pretty safe, there was a consistent level of quality throughout the whole film and I was really engrossed, even having seen it multiple times. TLJ kept pulling me out of the film with a bad joke, overdone cute animals, weird stutters, etc. etc. Overall it just felt like the quality bar was much lower than when JJ was at the helm. There were some great scenes for sure, but also way too many off moments that slipped through the net, which really hurt the viewing experience.
epicluca ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:57:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's why whilst I stand by my review and feeling of the movie, I definitely owe it to myself to see TLJ again standalone and not at midnight.
SpongePuff ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:44:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was on Holdo's side the whole time which made that entire subplot weird for me. Poe has an ego and wants to be part of the decision making, but he has just proven to everyone that he doesn't like taking orders (even from Leia who he respects), and people died as a result. He is not a likeable character by any stretch, and Finn is too gullible to notice he's just a pawn in Poe's ego game.
Not relevant but surely the casino had a dress code too? They were sent completely unprepared.
FalcoVet101 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 07:50:33 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought the stuttering dude was one of the stronger characters tbh, stronger than Finn or Poe. The dude was essentially "I have hacks if you have coin" who got captured and sold his last highest bidders to the newest highest bidder (though I'm not sure how he found out about their plan to evacuate since not even Finn knew about it).
He's one of the few characters who acted believably both in terms of acting ability as well as in universe logic.
f1mxli ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:00:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Add that to Rey's failed Occlumency leading to a trap and the mentor deaths and we've got an Order of the Phoenix rip-off.
Plus, Galactic Beasts and Where to Find Them.
jumpyg1258 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:52:02 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That part was fine with me, Yoda went out the same way.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:04:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Don't you think you're setting yourself up for failure here? now, I don't really disagree with your problems with the movie, but i think that nowadays having a lot of expectations going into a movie is a bit silly.
epicluca ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:17:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I definitely caught myself offguard, but with my confidence after TFA I thought surely they couldn't get this one wrong (and they didn't) but it just didn't feel right to me.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:29:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
โFrom the moment...โ wasnt that like, 2/3 of the way into the movie?
BeastCoast ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:33:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nah it was like 20 minutes into a 2.5 hour long movie.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:08:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Felt like it was at the end
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:37:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:56:23 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It felt like it wasduring the end, what can I say
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:14:40 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The film must have gone on forever for you, her being ejected into space was the end of the first set piece
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:08:59 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was a bit long yes
MackemRed ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:14:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with everything except for this. We only get interactions with her through Poe, who is our "hero".. but in her eyes hes a brash insubordinate that not only defied the direct order of his general (Leia) but also got resistance fighters and their whole bombing squadron destroyed. As a war leader theres nothing more destructive than a subordinate who cant follow orders. Shes became the leader of rebellion after Leia was knocked out of action. And in any military operation right or wrong you stick to the mission. No matter if YOU think its wrong. If every solider deicided to act on their own it would be a disastor.. and Poe WAS wrong.. if it wasnt for him just doing his job Finn and Rose wouldnt have left the ship and they would have gotten away scott free. She was already willing to sacrifice herself to let the others escape.
A commanding officer doesnt need to explain her plans to those under her, she tells them to man their posts and trust her.
epicluca ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 12:01:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To continue, however, I think this film was sort of neccessary. It bridges the "old" Star Wars with the new. TFA was a fan service to restore fan faith in the series, and now everyone is back on board after this dismal prequel trilogy they are ready to dip their toe in the water of a new formula, not just the same old that we had in the great but generic TFA. When IX comes out and the whole new generation of Disney Star Wars movies has properly kicked off, I think people will respect TLJ as a lesser evil of a movie, the true start of the new set of movies. I'm confident with JJ returning for IX, but not sure about the writer, Chris Terrio (who helped write Justice League and Batman vs Superman)
roblobly ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 13:28:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
i think we should not defend a movie with "it was necessary", that is a bad sign.
epicluca ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:42:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean yeah, it's shit to wait 2 years for what was essentially a filler movie, but I'm excited for the new franchise to actually kick off without the wait of the old films before it.
Sammyboy616 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:27:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But that isnโt an excuse for it being shit though. It could have been as good if not better than TFA and still have accomplished all the things youโre saying it did. It did not have to be disappointing.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:42:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought Rian Johnson was doing the script for Episode 9?
MadLuky6 ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 21:23:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I will be hated for this opinion. I don't like this movie. I facepalmed about 5 or 6 times. Everybody was angry how TFA was stealing from old movies. This one. No. YES!!! And maybe even more or it's more obvious. So many jokes. Like is this a family comedie? Traitor. Said 1000 times. Deus ex machina used about 6 times. Dialogues from The Room (Rose after saving Finn). And I could go on but my english is not that good and it will be hard for me to explain what I'm trying to say. My verdict is 2.5/10 Loved Benicio, some CGI, couple of gags and the last fight scene.
wolfgang187 ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 21:29:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You won't be hated, that sentiment is goin around a lot.
RiceandBeansandChees ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 22:08:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Normally you'd be right, but the hate is the general opinion. This is probably going to eclipse everything but Episode I in the hate-o-meter
ylteicz123 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:13:53 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I hate AOTC more
SwordLaker ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 16:17:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Feeling extremely mixed about this.
On one hand, I liked how it redeemed much of the lack of originality in TFA with many beautiful set pieces those are highly Star Wars-worthy (red salt is gorgeous!). One the other hands, there were too many issues with the film as another Star Wars entry:
Not too bad, probably because of the incredibly low bar set by the horrible TFA, but I didn't feel well-satisfied either. This entry might be worthy of a watch for pretty much everyone, but reception will undoubtedly be divided and bipolar.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:39:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
... I think people are losing their minds.
It is not a perfect movie, there are weird bits, but the Prequels were poorly acted, poorly written drivel held together by lightsaber fight/raves and "comedy" droids, gungans and tie ins.
akman16 ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 22:28:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rose : "The military industrial complex is bad ,mkay?"
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 22:41:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Disney: Instead let's all sing along to the media conglomerate complex
retapes ยท 318 points ยท Posted at 14:42:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Boy oh boy this was bad.
The second Poe begins throwing grade-school pranks at Hux I knew this was gonna go south. Comedy at points of drama is a really powerful way to completely destroy any dramatic tension (which is basically rule one of what not to do in any writing handbook). Hux, who has risen through a galactic organisation of incredible sophistication - who has grown to lead thousands of men and women - is unable to understand that he's being made fun of - or even more than that - basic operation of a war machine. All of a sudden, he isn't scary, or smart, or clever, he's just there - the admiral of a fleet with one of the most sophisticated death machines ever made but can't work out if he should aim 600 of his 600 cannons at the big ship, or maybe aim 300 of the 600 at the other ships too. And why wouldn't you be scanning for escape ships, given that's literally the only way the Rebels would leave the wallowing cruiser?
This film is like watching a 3 hour long sci-fi themed music video with no music. Staggeringly beautiful scenes, VFX and production design lift up what are basically bits of terrible Star Wars fan fiction. There is no tension, nothing makes sense - on a character and plot level.
The fact that the plot of this movie only exists because the same people who can use lightspeed haven't invented a speed between "really slow" and "lightspeed" is so laughable that I felt embarrassed when evil lackey #56 had the shameful task of explaining why they couldn't shoot the ship right in front of them. "Because, uh, the shields are on, and they're out of range of our cannons (300m range with a firing arc resembling a catapult) and they have to run out of fuel so that they are really close and then we can shoot them, but until then we just sort of follow along next to them instead of sending out more fighters to board them, uh, like when Kylo Ren basically flew through the ship completely fucking it up, uh".
Nevermind the issues actual Star Wars fans have with lore and other backstory - as a film fan this film had nothing beyond production design. Why did the characters land their ship on the beach at the Casino? Why not park it so not to draw attention to themselves? Why did the irritating old-lady alien need to be fighting someone while she spoke to them? Why was Po not executed for mutiny against the entire fleet? Why did every single character - whether in the Order or with the Rebels - never show a single ounce of actual military training? Gee, it's a good thing that Kylo somehow managed to salvage an inexplicably niche siege cannon from his entirely shattered and destroyed fleet in order to transport it down to the mining colony which has a single giant door.
Even worse is that no single part of the film - set in a stunning series of environments and worlds - ever explain any of them. Nothing gets a name or explanation. Hoth was Hoth, Tatoine was Tatoine. Now we have salt planet and monte carlo planet. It's like any sort of political gamesmanship has been replaced by single sentence explanations for things AFTER THEY HAPPEN.
"We are evacuating but there is a mining planet where we have an empty base that's very well armored and we will go there because they can't see our small escape craft!" What???? Why not use the escape craft and just leave? Why did you bomb them? Why did the bombs have to fall down? Could you just shoot them at it?
Benicio Del Toro is a lovable rogue obsessed with money, who then relents and shows a trace of warmth when he returns Rose's necklace (one of the few touching moments in the film). Then he completely annihilates his character development by betraying them. Why give the necklace back at all? Wait, why were they even on the ship at all, when their actions had zero consequence? Why not just insert some boundaries for the plot, and then use them to buy tension? Why tell us the mine had no other escapes, and then immediately escape out of the back?
It felt like the entire movie was trimmed down to one line per scene: "We have to go full speed!"/"You have good in you!"/"Take this to save this."/"Take that chrome dome!" Nobody refers to anything within the rich universe of Star Wars itself, beyond generalisations and incredibly irritating anachronisms ("Godspeed!" in a world with no god). You have the incredible richness of the entire Star Wars universe and you can't at least fit your basic-ass exposition into some form of Star Wars theme?
The endless "comedy" in this stripped all drama out of it at all.
Stormtroopers - the original space gestapo - are now brainless props to be bumped into by droids. They're incapable of doing anything beyond standing on parade and dying in fire (literally).
Entire loading bay of prize and talented Rebel pilots are entirely incinerated but lol look at the droid cartwheeling through the air with trill of beeps and boops. Luke sees Leia for the first time in decades and manages to make a comment about her hair.
Can someone give the Rebels a basic lesson in military tactics? When you're besieged, don't fly out and try and blow the enemy up with inferior numbers in totally open ground. How about also having some strict chain of command instead of tutting every time a psycho "flyboy" mutinies and tries to take over your ragtag band of morons? Every single action taken by both "militaries" was a punch-and-judy show of dumb and dumber, where cutting edge military tactics is lining up your stuff and then making them go forward.
So many dumb story decisions. It's amazing. Finn needs to try and crash into the center of the cannon (not sure why given not a single vehicle the Order brought with them could have fit in the mine), Leia needed to be resurrected 3 times over (presumably to die of old age off screen) including her survival in deep space, beloved Admiral Akbar dies off-screen and instead Holdo gets a dramatic death (because apparently autopilot and turning a ship around are too complex to do without someone loitering in the bridge of the ship).
The Millennium Falcon has to have a scene where it's piloted like a minecart through some narrow underground area while tiny and nimble enemy fighters smash into everything.
Even worse is that the reviewers are making it out like this is anything approaching 50%+ on Rotten Tomatoes, when placed alone this would be something around 30% on a good day. Be aware that this film makes John Carter From Mars look like an actual film (with plot, characters, scenes with more than one line of dialogue). It even makes Jupiter Ascending look inventive.
I think the reason my rant is so long is that this film also manages to spend far too much time (which is basically any time at all away from the plot) trying to hamfist some incredibly lame political message in. I do not care either way politically, but to have DISNEY of all companies try and preach about how evil the corporate 1% are in this franchise (the same company that issues legal threats if anyone didn't toe the line on their release schedule) given their history for basically press-ganging and blocking reviewers for even a whiff of a negative review is so grossly cynical it's actually more evil than anything Hux and his bumbling fools manage to do the entire film. It's also incredibly long because I feel like the reviewers watched a totally different film. The absolute fact that not a single reviewer has torn this apart (and there is about 15 things per scene that'll raise your eyebrows or make you shake your head) is really worrying, and gives you a pretty good idea that either a) every single otherwise good reviewer suddenly loves terrible films or b) the Disney juggernaut monopoly is able to scare everyone into compliance.
In 2-3 months time (once Disney's release schedule has made them billions), everyone will suddenly talk about this like the monumental film-making dumpster fire it was.
The most genuine moment and performance for me was when the nun toads had their wheelbarrow smashed and their look of shocked disappointment mirrored my face the entire film.
The only thing that'd get me back in the cinema for another Star Wars outing would be Alfonso Cuarรณn directing a Knights of the Old Republic trilogy - but that'd actually be a film with a plot, script, sensible scale and human drama, and much less good at selling "crystal critters" to 5 year olds.
[deleted] ยท 45 points ยท Posted at 20:54:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What made this movie truly bad was how none of the characters' choices mattered.
Kylo Ren has to make a choice of whether or not to fire at Leia. He chooses... ah, never mind, someone else did it anyway (and then she does the Mary Poppins thing, so it didn't matter).
Should Luke burn the Jedi tree or not? Making his mind up, struggling with the implications... and bam there's Yoda blowing it up anyway (but Rey removed the books, so it didn't really matter).
[deleted] ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 00:35:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 00:39:14 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What I don't get is why Yoda didn't just materialize into Snoke's flying wing and destroy it, now that ghosts can use crazy force powers.
Fnhatic ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 03:43:40 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I love how the 'miniature Death Star' is also aimed at the midpoint of the door and has this enormous beam like 100 feet wide and it just makes a man-size hole at the base.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 11:28:48 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's like the production team ran out of computers.
Portmanteau_Pat ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:30:04 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Is that short for something?
bedbugsex ยท 111 points ยท Posted at 14:52:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Actually even that was character assassination for the sake of comedy. Rey nearly killed these people giving her hospitality and gives zero fucks.
stabbybit ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 01:27:06 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nah man, she looks over the edge with a look of contrition.
The real problem with that scene is that some nimrod thought a good way to finish an establishing scene for Rey and her affinity with the Force was physical comedy.
It's basically the same thing as if, after Luke fails, Yoda lifts up the X-Wing out of the swamp, leading to a moment of realization and change for Luke as he begins to contemplate the true power of the Force and understand that his doubts are his biggest limitation... and then Yoda plops it down, splashing Luke and R2D2 with mud.
moderate-painting ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 21:26:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What did you expect from that scavenger scum?
TNGSystems ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 00:01:01 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You wrote a huge essay slandering this film and I reluctantly agree with it all tbh. Completely nailed my thoughts.
BeastCoast ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 19:47:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I fucking love you.
[deleted] ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 00:07:21 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you. I'm furious at the direction this has taken the franchise and I'm glad others can see it. It just kept doing the wrong things
phasE89 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:38:47 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm furious at the reviewers as much as at the movie itself, I just can't grasp how can professional critics rate this movie so highly...
monetized_account ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 00:30:41 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Never realised I needed this until now.
Fnhatic ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 03:18:31 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Yeah but we're gonna get a great Plinkett review.
"Nuhmber wun: why is everyone so useless"
Dutchy115 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 00:40:48 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is pretty much everything I've been trying to articulate.
jack3d-- ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 06:10:04 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is the best review of the film I have seen.
[deleted] ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 16:45:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with most of your criticisms but this is a weird one. Han says, "Then I'll see you in hell!" in Empire. Did that bother you too?
retapes ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 00:46:51 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Good point. Honestly I don't think that bothered me purely because that line in Empire was among lots of other actual dialogue. I felt like every single line in TLJ was bad and pulled me out of it. "Chrome dome." "If they move, stun em." That fridge magnet philosophy reply that Holdo gives to Po when he asks what the plan was. The other issue I have is that surely the "Godspeed" of the Star Wars universe is "may the force be with you". Which actually reminds me of that other toe-curlingly cringey moment where Holdo and Leia (who are meant to be efficient, highly intelligent and effective military commanders) have that "no you go first!" moment....
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:29:38 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I must say I felt the same. The moment she said it I was like wahhht? It felt out of place, Han saying hell didnโt maybe itโs the delivery or the scenario surrounding it but like another comment said she should have referenced the force Godspeed in that universe is Midichlorianspeed.
Portmanteau_Pat ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:27:26 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You had me laughing my ass off with that line.
tibatnemmoc ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 09:00:55 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Disney Has Star Wars Plans Into The 2030s
Oh baby
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:38:40 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Both planets were named. Mas gives them the name of the casino planet, and the other one is named as the mining planet. I don't recall what they were right off, but they were both named.
thesirenlady ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:17:20 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, they both have names, we just dont have the same level of exposure to get those names into your brain. The Casino was on Canto Bight, and the salt planet is Crait. And how much explanation is really required? Hoth is ice, tatooine is desert, Crait is salt, Canto Bight is upper class. I think they got enough criticism for Jakku being just another tatooine so you end up getting little niche planets like this just to avoid being copies of established planets
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:58:57 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree a lot with what you said, but the โGodspeedโ Anachronism was not jarring at all. There are religions in Star Wars, surely they have manifested in language at some point.
[deleted] ยท 237 points ยท Posted at 12:11:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
One thing that this movie utterly lacked was a sense of grandeur and majesty, aside from the all too short lightsaber scenes. Basing a lot of the story around a tiny number of Rebel ships was a dumb move, and the two new planets were either too Earth-like or generic, I think Disney hates worldbuilding
[deleted] ยท 191 points ยท Posted at 13:51:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
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jupzi ยท 41 points ยท Posted at 16:36:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
absolutely agree, the movie has so much potential and george lucas' star wars is what got us all hooked, even as a minor role i feel that he would add so much.
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 17:03:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
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Sierra419 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:08:23 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, Clone Wars was absolutely brilliant. That's what you get when you combine Lucas with a good director. Same thing with Empire and RotJ. Disney missed out here by not listening to the guy
PavlikNej ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:37:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He wrote Indiana Jones..
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:23:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, but this is his idea of romance
SBGenius ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 02:54:49 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Agreed! I mean, I'm a prequel hater but give me fucking Naboo over that boring as hell casino planet ANY day.
axxxman ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:36:53 on January 9, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[Deleted] due to Reddit policy.
pmmemoviestills ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 23:50:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How? Because he showed us a Blade Runner city?
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 01:13:50 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was much more than that.
eq2_lessing ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 16:42:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh yea, like the desert planet, the water planet, the city planet, the ice planet, the jungle moon, the swamp planet?
[deleted] ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 17:08:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
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[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 00:46:50 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:50:37 on February 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Happened to come across this comment and thought I'd say in the old canon Kamino wasn't always covered in water and the event that caused that happened quite late in its history, so the Kaminoans had a chance to evolve before everything got wet
eq2_lessing ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 21:54:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That IS the problem.
A master world crafter would craft planets that are vastly heterogeneous in climate and people.
It's a joke and a trope to have stereotypical planets with stereotypical inhabitants.
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 22:05:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
eq2_lessing ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 22:08:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is all fine, but not in the same ballpark of what a master world crafter does. That's just my point. I'm only trying to make it.
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 22:12:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
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eq2_lessing ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:21:49 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There are no examples off the top of my hat because Scifi fantasy movies of the past were mostly terrible. Maybe Dune. But that series didn't have the same mass appeal. And it was based on a book series which is kinda cheating.
Star Wars' big draw was the story and the few hints of a glorious jedi past that worked so well exactly because they were just hints. I don't think the really stereotypical planets did anything positive for SW.
Jay-Em ยท 43 points ยท Posted at 14:40:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But at the same time, Empire Strikes Back operates on a very small scale. You start on Hoth, then you have Han and Leia being chased from the Empire while Luke is on Dagobah with Yoda. Finally they all meet up in the same city. Yet it undoubtably works.
[deleted] ยท 54 points ยท Posted at 15:40:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Its funny that so much happens in those scenes while The Last Jedi was pretty uneventful at times
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 23:21:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The problem is that their is no payoff.
The whole casino/Finn storyline leads nowhere.
Rey doesn't really learn shit from Luke. Ren/Ben just goes back to being evil cause he was dumped by a girl. Rey also just gives up on him real fucking quick.
The whole Poe plot leads nowhere. Leia almost dying leads nowhere, she just comes back an hour later and that's it.
That evil BB8 had no purpose on the movie. It was del Toro that sold them. Evil BB8 did nothing. And that motherfucker is in the poster. Cause gotta sell toys. (I'm not even going to talk about the overdone cute bird thing).
Snoke was just a plot device. And general Hux is a bitch to everyone.
And don't get me started on Phasma. The movies would stay completely unchanged if her character didn't exist.
chachakhan ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:23:52 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
For the "Rebel Scum" line i actually groaned...
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:41:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I 100% agree. I was really disappointed in Finn's story because apart from the scene where he tries to run he could have been any other character. Built on none of his development from TFA
Jay-Em ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:44:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think one problem is that what we're watching in TESB, while important to us as viewers because we care about the characters, doesn't have much meaning on a galactic scale. It doesn't hugely matter to the Rebel movement whether Han and Leia escape. Whereas in TLJ, we're watching the entirety of the Resistance being chased down, and presumably if the First Order catch them, that's it for the galaxy. The stakes are way higher, so maybe the uneventfulness is more dissonant.
Asiriya ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 00:20:45 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's lots of things that break disbelief in this film. Poe attacks a ship single handedly. They stop to talk to him, patch him through to the commanding officer as though they're best friends and then make a joke of it. He blows up dozens of turrets as if they're explosive barrels. He dodges hundreds of fighters. A cruiser avoids five Star Destroyers for hours.
At least with ESB it wasn't easy. Han was able to find them moments to ease off the tension, but then something would go wrong, usually because.Chewie is a terrible mechanic (and no one listens to 3PO) and they'd have to face the consequences, and Han would have to out wit or out fly his enemies. And that's character building. Theyve worked hard and it's still all gone wrong.
Here the premise is just stupid. Ren and two TIE fighters kill the whole Resistance command and destroy all fighters in a single attack run, why wouldn't they keep that up and destroy the ship??
How can there be time to go to a different planet, how can they not be stopped by Snoke or someone else? Why can't they jump the ship above Coruscant and scatter their people to meet up elsewhere? Etc etc etc.
One thing I noticed, no one is proactive really. Things are happening to the characters but they're not really in control. Sometimes that's the point, and people are saying it is with Finn and Rose, but it doesn't stop the film feeling unsatisfying when everything they try to do is blocked. Compare that to Han above.
Sammyboy616 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:31:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Empire feels like a small story, but taking place in the middle of a much bigger war. Thereโs other stuff happening and it all takes place with them trying to regroup with the rest of the fleet.
In TLJ the entire fleet is 3 ships of in the corner of the galaxy and thatโs it.
Jay-Em ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 19:49:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah exactly. I think the issue is that in TLJ, we're expected to believe that the entirety of the galactic conflict is this slow pursuit of some Resistance carriers, and somehow the First Order has the rest of the galaxy subdued. It doesn't make much sense.
What should have happened IMO is that the First Order blowing up Hosnian Prime sparked all out war with the New Republic. The Last Jedi's story could have taken place in much the same way, with the First Order hunting down the former Resistance members in particular because of their links to Luke and Rey.
Instead we get a silly contrived Empire v. Rebellion rehash that undermines the resolution of ROTJ. It also makes Palpatine's feat of building up the power to seize control of the galaxy less remarkable, when Snoke is capable of doing it out of nowhere.
Mintfriction ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:45:41 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah but those worlds did not exist before. Here there are no new worlds. Even the jedi planet feels boring
Minscota ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:23:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think the biggest mistake disney made with the IP is throwing out the books. The books were far better than anything they have done with the IP.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:37:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I would have preferred the First Order to have been almost totally beaten by the attack on Starkiller Base, and to have the remnants become a small group of terrorists, like the Rebellion in the original trilogy.
Fakayana ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:44:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Eh, I don't think that's the problem with the movie. It's okay for a smaller scope story focusing on the characters. I think us fans just got too overhyped (especially with Rian Johnson's insistence to stay away from any spoilers) and expected a bigger grander story than this. I'm pretty surprised that the AT-AT battle was the climax of the movie, I thought it would be closer to Hoth's role in Empire Strikes Back.
I think in time people who disliked it now will warm up to it, though.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:41:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But Empire was a smaller scope story focusing on characters but still has that sense of grandeur
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:33:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So like the OT then?
[deleted] ยท 52 points ยท Posted at 21:24:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Why on earth was this edited like a trailer? They never gave scenes a chance to breathe, it was jumping all over the place.
It was most egregious during the Rey/Kylo/Snoke sequence.
Kilfeather94 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 01:45:12 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Was waiting for someone to mention this. Scenes just kept transitioning so quickly when it felt like they could have gone on for just a bit longer. Felt very jarring.
Dosca ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:08:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They chucked a Godzilla (2014) with that bullshit. STAY IN ONE SCENE. Why the fuck did they fuck with any sense of tension by returning to plot lines that were significantly less interesting than everything happening between rey and kylo
SkywardSword20 ยท 47 points ยท Posted at 17:47:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I'm not really a Star Wars fan so nothing they did with the original characters would upset me...but I still didn't like this movie.
It's just not good, seems to suffer from bloated over-complicated stretched plot many modern blockbusters suffer from, like Pirates of the Caribbean sequels or Transformers sequels. People double crossing each other, or just expecting to be double crossed but in the end they're not, I don't know seems straight out of a pirate movie. It did nothing for me, it seems to have been equally as useless to the plot at large. Which I don't really understand these movies should have simple plots , strong characters and big action scenes. I mean it seems like a winning formula
the_hot_banana ยท 228 points ยท Posted at 11:31:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not sure if this was due to the fact that Disney now own both companies but this really felt like a Marvel film. The humour in TFA seemed much more natural, and more like what people in those situations could actually say. In TLJ, it kinda felt like the entire scene was written around the punchline of the jokes. The whole film, for me, didn't have the same sense of wonder and amazement that I've had from watching it's predecessors. Like I said before, it feels like they've just made a comic book film
atomicbrett ยท 122 points ยท Posted at 12:38:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh man Plasma's death scene was the worst offense in that aspect. Huge baddie falls to her death in a fiery inferno, and it's bookended by a terrible one-liner from Finn and "need a lift?"
AnonymousTrollLloyd ยท 93 points ยท Posted at 13:03:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She survived being thrown into a trash compactor, then having the planet explode. Something small like dying won't kill her.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 13:43:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She'll return in Episode 9 as Cyborg Phasma.
trestkon212 ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 17:11:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Punished "Venom" Phasma
ggalaxyy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:44:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
jedi phasma
VicbossTHFC ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:18:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Mojo96LoL ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:45:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Robophasma
TheLast_Centurion ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:25:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Also why not give every stormtrooper such a armor which blasters cant penetrate?
Sarmerbinlar ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:07:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not when there's merchandising to be done
DoubleSteve ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:43:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When was Phasma a huge baddie? I've seen her being hyped so many times, but she wasn't really that in the movies, so I'm not sure were the idea comes from. She has been even less of a bad ass than Boba Fett ever was and he died in a joke scene where Han accidentally knocked him down the Sarlacc pit.
stabbybit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:08:25 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I have a feeling she is coming back. Her death is very "off-screen" and open-ended.
I mean, Anakin got his limbs chopped off and catches on fire. She's covered mostly in armor still. She can be a'ight.
Zunthe ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:50:24 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought the worst offender to that was Luke dusting his shoulder. That scene was pretty good until he did that.
leftysarepeople2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:46:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What was his line again? I heard chromedome while they were fighting
atomicbrett ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:03:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I dont even remember, after the chromedome line he comes up from the lift and blindsides her he just says "Hey!" or something
wingsfan24 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:04:04 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She says "Scum!" and he says "Rebel scum!"
TheLast_Centurion ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:25:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Meh.. fits her pointless character a tleast now we are sure she is dead abd wont return. Hopefully.
Death_Star_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:04:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
6-year old kid: โhahaha mortality is funny I hope someone says something like that to me when I die!โ
FlawlessBoltX ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:37:05 on December 17, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Omg I cringed so hard at that line
dandaman910 ยท 50 points ยท Posted at 12:46:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
TFA had some out of place humour too. Just not nearly as bad as this one. This just refused to let the dramatic tension build before it would ruin it with a wise crack.
Wiffernubbin ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 13:55:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Guardians Vol2 approach.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:03:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You know how when there's a quiet moment in a film theatre, and people begin (or don't stop) crinkling wrappers, as if they're uncomfortable with the lack of levity, and want to appear nonchalant? VIII is a film for such morons.
DavidOrWalter ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 20:17:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What? I actually have no idea what you are saying here.
Portmanteau_Pat ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:18:17 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I actually do and don't know what he means. lol
FalcoVet101 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:56:02 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I recently rewatched Guardians 2 and the forced humor was much more noticeable on the second watch. Though I do think it's still a pretty good movie, as it let its serious moments have time to... well, affect us.
Shhhhhsleep ยท 50 points ยท Posted at 12:26:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Especially with that Leia seen I had to check I wasnโt watching guardians of the galaxy vol 3
the_hot_banana ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 12:36:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I kinda laughed at that scene, especially cos it kinda looked like an old lady's version of a superman pose
DoubleSteve ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:51:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That was a pretty gringy moment. Not the fact she survived the strike, but the implementation should have been better. Show the hit from her perspective, so we can see her clearly preparing for the feat. Then have everyone blown out of the bridge while she moves herself back to the ship. Have subtle but clear visible damage on her from the stunt.
Spawn3323 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:13:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Luke brushing his shoulder after the AT-ATs just unloaded on him..... Too much.
nashist ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 12:38:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Disney already owned Star Wars for a long time before TFA, so I would blame the director rather than the company
the_hot_banana ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:51:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah for sure, like I'm sure Disney aren't purposely telling their directors to do this but I couldn't shake the comparisons I was making
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:21:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
As if the director has free reign. He has suits behind him giving orders.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 12:32:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It felt a lot like the humor in Thor 3 for me.
imbasicallyhuman ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:13:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I laughed a lot during Thor 3, I'm not sure I laughed once in this.
the_hot_banana ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:33:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Haven't managed to watch it yet but that doesn't surprise me
TheSums ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 12:52:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Oddly I found the humour in TFA just as Marvel-ish as this film. I think both films have problem with humour in serious moments, and thatโs a problem Marvel movies consistently have as well.
But I think it works a bit more here, because TLJ is definitely trying to do something new, whereas TFA is trying to be a traditional film, but is filled with more modern humour.
GeorgeStark520 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:06:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But Disney already owned both Lucasfilm and Marvel when TFA came out? Maybe this was the director's doing rather than Disney because you say JJ didn't commited the same sins
the_hot_banana ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:11:36 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I probably misspoke but it still feels like something written in the MCU
TheLast_Centurion ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:24:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This was GotG3 tbh.
the_hot_banana ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:13:04 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Building up for a crossover at the end of IX I guarantee
Lundorff ยท 117 points ยท Posted at 15:58:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I never thought I would say this, but I currently have no desire to see the last movie. TLJ was so poorly written and executed in almost every aspect that my passion for this era has completely vanished. There is no longer any tension, mystery or threat in a galaxy far, far away, and it is too late to fix it now. They can not make emoboy Kylo dangerous and turning Rey dark is too late and both Han, Leia and Luke are now gone. Meh.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 23:02:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I dont see any need for the last movie at all. This movie should have been two movies, the ending made perfect sense for movie 9 and no sense at all for the second part of a trilogy.
axxxman ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:51:03 on January 9, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[Deleted] due to Reddit policy.
Bjarnturan ยท 392 points ยท Posted at 12:56:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The opening scene where Poe makes fun of Hux, was so incredibly cringe and bad.
bigolemoose ยท 199 points ยท Posted at 14:19:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
There was a lot of Disney/Marvel forced humor in this movie where it was completely unnecessary
walkingtheriver ยท 132 points ยท Posted at 17:07:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The worst one was the
facetimeforcetime between Rey and Ren, where Ren was shirtless. Those moments are meant to be dramatic and tense, and instead she's like "can you put a shirt on please?" which just completely kills the momentArgyrius ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 20:05:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Those Snokecalls between them were supposed to be tense and dramatic, but in my theatre people just burst out laughing (and not in a good way) at the ridiculousness of the shirtless Ren scene.
smoha96 ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 20:55:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
On the other hand, we now know that Kylo Ren doesn't have an eight-pack.
Jezamiah ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 00:46:27 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He looked good though
Argh0naut ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:23:27 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
yum
BaBaFiCo ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 07:45:18 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was hoping that was building to some sexual tension that would have been part of Rey turning to the Dark Side as Ren's partner and lover.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:56:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
walkingtheriver ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 21:17:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't mind references that I don't get, but I'd think that something that is so front and center like this would be thought through a bit better? Most of this movie's audience don't even know what SNL is (I only know what it is because of reddit)
GruesomeCola ยท -13 points ยท Posted at 22:21:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How was the last season of GoT fan-servicey? Are you one of the idiots who didn't like that season 7 payed off everything they've been building up to for 6 years?
Death_Star_ ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:59:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I have a friend in the industry (who doesnโt) and he said that studios like Marvel and Lucas are keeping things light โ even expectantly heavy movies like TLJ and Civil War โ because of the climate we live in right now.
People want escapism. Would explain why BR2049 didnโt do so well and why Coco is breaking Pixar records.
Basically, audiences want levity and an escape from the living hell that is life, what with Net Neutrality dying, mass killings, the economy, ACHA, and other political and economical sore spots.
Meatballs21 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:52:19 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Which is funny, because Star Wars started the opposite way. At the time, movies were all dark and gritty, and Star Wars was a fun movie that went against the trend.
Omegle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:39:09 on December 17, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
someone got the stupiud joke writer from the iron man movies to shine here
Spawn3323 ยท 116 points ยท Posted at 14:27:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There were a few moments like that. The scene where the AT-ATs unload on Luke and when the dust settles he brushed his shoulder off....
LDKCP ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 20:50:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There was no dust! It seemed silly, but it was a hint.
[deleted] ยท 65 points ยท Posted at 17:34:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
theivoryserf ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 21:53:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Fuck me I hate that Marvel humour outside of the series. Star Wars was goofy but it played itself straight, which made it work.
ValkTuna ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 18:50:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well Luke winks at C3PO, close enough.
ggalaxyy ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 21:39:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
fucking hell
monetized_account ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:20:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But think of the kids! We need to hit those beats because focus groups and research tells us that a blockbuster script needs a joke every 1.356 minutes!
CleverZerg ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 18:39:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I hate marvel/disney humor but I actually loved that moment, made me laugh out loud.
nommas ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 21:26:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I didn't mind that. Got a few laughs in the cinema I saw it in. I thought it was a fun little moment that shows the old cocky Luke from the original trilogy. Maybe it wasn't appropriate for the new wise master Luke, but it was just a small gesture with a lot of personality.
I liked it.
CleverZerg ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:30:00 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think it fitted the old master persona that he now has since I think he's pretty similar to Yoda in this movie. Both goofballs in their old age.
spursaustralia ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:19:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Same. Don't know why you're being downvoted for saying you liked something about the movie
leftysarepeople2 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:58:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He should have taken off his robe there, like it was a warmup
stabbybit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:57:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I actually thought that was amusing.
The scene that drove me nuts was the one where Rey is first practicing with the lightsaber. You're undercutting that drama if Luke makes a comment about his little helpers not liking Rey all that much (which by itself makes sense and is an appropriate moment of levity for that scene), then ten minutes later in a serious scene that's supposed to be helping to establish Rey and her affinity with the Force and her control with a lightsaber, she's cutting through a rock and then it falls down a hill to smash one of the helpers' carts as they push it along who then look up at her with irritated body language and she looks over the cliff in an "Oops, Sorry" expression.
I liken it to "What if when Luke fails at raising his X-Wing out of the swamp, Yoda does it, showing him the power of the Force, reaching this moment of realization and change for Luke... and then Yoda plops it down and splashes R2D2 and Luke with mud. Cut back to Yoda who shrugs with a wry smile."
FalcoVet101 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:57:22 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly that was one of the few moments where I thought the humor actually worked. Luke was always kinda cocky.
MurderousPaper ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:56:41 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Great kid! ๐ Don't get cocky.
Texual_Deviant ยท 63 points ยท Posted at 14:16:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I love it when bad guys are stupid and incompetent for no reason other than to be stupid and incompetent for laughs.
ChappieBeGangsta ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 00:19:20 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah it never lands. You become instantly aware that someone at a desk with a pen is purposely writing this character to be made fun of, so the jokes have edge anymore.
rebb1t ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:28:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So funny, like donโt u hate when ur on hold too. Like cmon that funny right, right ??????
Corican ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 13:49:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think if he had a legitimate problem hearing Hux, and not just taking the piss, it would have played better as a joke.
TheLast_Centurion ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:47:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It screamed "red flag" and I suspected Marvel movie from then on.. :/
Mamsies ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:57:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think it started well then the joke was just run into the ground. The idea of Hux making this big dramatic speech about how he will destroy the Resistance then Poe mocking him by pretending that he couldn't hear him is quite funny, but it really dragged out way too long.
That tends to be my problem with most Disney/Marvel humour. The jokes are funny, but they're dragged out for too long.
skuppo ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:27:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So bad, why do they have the concept of being on hold in space? Is there a call centre on Dagobah we don't know about?
Why did we see the ironing scene? This is Star Wars, there's no time for that shit. And when the purple haired Leia stand in says "God speed", there's no God in this universe, that shouldn't be a phrase!
The script was so bad, it felt like it was written by someone who'd never seen a Star Wars movie.
Iandian ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:05:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I had a laugh.
pimpst1ck ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:15:39 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How was it that different from Han's awkward phone conversation in ANH. Pretty clear it was a nod to that
Declanhx ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:56:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I liked that scene, it was like the star lord / Roman duel at the end of GOTG except there was no clever plan, so it fell flat.
CurbedEnthusiasm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:39:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought it was an outtake.
AHMilling ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:01:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Have you not seen ANH? Han has a weird conversation over the comms as well.
Bjarnturan ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:53:02 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How can you even compare them? In TLJ it drags on for ever and ends with a your mother joke.
Ultra-ChronicMonstah ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 18:43:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This definitely made me realise that the reason I can't warm to the new films is due to it being too Disney. Too many Jack Sparrow moments and attempts at building Avengers banter. It doesn't work at all and it pretty cringeworthy.
Also how tf they gonna do my boy Ackbar like that.
[deleted] ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 22:59:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Things I was looking forward to going into this movie:
Finding out about the Knights of Ren. Finding out who Snoke is. Finding out who Rey's parents were.
I am disappointed.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 01:05:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, it had a real 'cant be arsed' feel about that. Considering how it was built up, it was a slap in the face for fans of TFA
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:19:21 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But you did find out who Reys parents were
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 05:52:35 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And it was disappointing
The_Inner_Light ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:08:18 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So the knights of Ren were the red guys right?
glasseyedman ยท 233 points ยท Posted at 17:34:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did Zack Snyder and Joss Whedon co-direct this movie?
[deleted] ยท 42 points ยท Posted at 17:37:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 18:17:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's called Disney producers my friend
NetSraC1306 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 21:09:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Except for the โmake them workโ part
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:12:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
zazeron-of-shadow ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:13:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You must have watched Phantom menace
wheresgreensaber ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:20:16 on December 19, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I feel liked they searched the web for every theroy out there and did the opposite.
wolfgang187 ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 17:40:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Best comment about this film yet lol
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 20:49:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
worse, Disney by committee behind a puppet
fgdadfgfdgadf ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:53:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Leave Zack alone!
Dallywack3r ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:53:13 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Harsh but true
Dragshisballsz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:15:25 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
no but this makes JL look like citizen kane.
howbloodygoodismilk ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 18:30:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A bit of unnecessary humour turns this into a marvel film? Wut?
the-great-radsby ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 01:51:58 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think he's talking about the incoherent nonsensical plot and character assassination level butchering of characters, arcs, and the universe.
howbloodygoodismilk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:50:17 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So heโs a salty fanboy who is upset the movies plot and ideas didnโt go out like he planned? There is nothing wrong with the plot, or characters dying. The humour and the casino part are the only real downfalls.
the-great-radsby ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:03:21 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
You're really confident in your opinion, aren't you? I don't know man, maybe try to just ask him why he feels the way he does about the movie first, and then change your mind or carry on as you are based on whether he makes a compelling argument or not.
Also, pointing out thematic incoherence is not the same as criticising a story for not doing exactly what you wanted. Surprises, twists or subversions aren't automatically good just by virtue of being there. Deconstructionism can be good, but this movie's approach to deconstructionism is not different from the DCEU's. In a more subtle way, it's been a problem for the series since ROTJ. But after the way TLJ has fumbled this new trilogy's narrative, it honestly doesn't look like it's ever going to get any better.
fuckloggingin ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 17:39:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I came out of the cinema after episodes I and II feeling they were uneven but with some awesome moments. I really liked episode III. Episode VII is my favourite ever cinema experience. Just saw the film today... ouch. As others have commented it feels like a Marvel film. I was prepared for a let down but I think this was a 5/10 film at best and the worst film in the franchise :(
The plot was all over the place and I'm struggling to see where they're headed next. How does this film serve as the middle of a trilogy?
Nawpo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:39:53 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Here's what I don't understand, I disliked TFA on day one, and from what I've heard (I was gonna go tonight but I decided fuck it) TLJ just continues the same cringey humor I disliked, the same lack of context and storytelling instead boiling every new character to a single sentence backstory and making the OT characters huge jackass failures right before killing them.
What's the difference between TFA and TLJ? I see them as completely similar in terms of plot and execution.
[deleted] ยท 134 points ยท Posted at 11:28:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just got out of it and wow pretty bummed, so much stuff was shoehorned in there it felt and the comedic moments were far too often. It was actually pretty cringeworthy and bordering on annoying when those moments kept occurring. Clearly the porgs have been solely placed for Disney's latest "cute" toy for the summer. I enjoyed that fight in Snokes throne room though, bit disappointed they kept Leia alive over Luke too (that flying scene though, wowzers)
nashist ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 12:34:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
half way through the movie I was already grabbing my hairs and asking to make it stop
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 13:02:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Knew it was coming from the opening with Hux & Poe
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:13:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I remember watching The Force Awakens when it came out, and wincing at Poe's talk line. Thank Satan it didn't go overboard, and 80% of the humour worked well. VIII, on the other hand, was too irreverent by far.
lucoin ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:39:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
you can actually leave a cinema during a screening.
nashist ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:45:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I know, and how sad is it that the first time I actually wanted to was on a saga I love.
doublehyphen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:29:44 on December 30, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I am hoping for the plastic porg roast.
mollekake_reddit ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 12:57:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Have you forgotten about How much comedy the old movies have? Have you forgotten about the ewoks? Basically living teddy bears.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 13:05:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sure I havenโt forgotten the comedy in the OT, Ewoks, Solos commentaries and quips between chewie and just about everything, yoda, I loved it. The Last Jedi unfortunately makes those special moments of comic relief something to dread for in my opinion, having them in every second scene was very unnecessary I think.
mollekake_reddit ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:18:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't find it to be that often really. Not compared to other movies these days like the Marvel stuff.
[deleted] ยท 128 points ยท Posted at 13:01:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Uh hated it. Cringy humor. Too many things didn't make sense. The villains aren't threatening, they're incompetent and ridiculed the entire time. Finn's side adventure was a waste of screentime. Kylo and Rey were great for about 2/3s of the film. Climactic "battle" was lame af. I'm disappointed, pissed off and dead inside.
Glorfindel212 ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 21:33:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yo chill, take a good walk out in fresh air.
1) It's only a movie
2) Star Wars is fantasy SF, almost nothing makes sense in what happens.
3) I disagree about the space battles, we had among the best visual space scenery in the whole franchise.
Sierra419 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 04:21:39 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Some people grew up with this lore and don't appreciate a newer generation taking a dump all over it.
Glorfindel212 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 07:20:41 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Translation : stay the same, but not the same, but the same.
I've seen people argue about lobbed shots in space.
Like, dude. It's Star Wars. Nothing about space battles makes actual sense. They literaly put a glass window with all their officers in it so that a single fighter can blow the whole officer deck. If it didn't shock you in 19 whatever, it shouldn't now.
Just enjoy them for what they are.
theivoryserf ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 22:07:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Get a hobby?
E-Shark ยท 57 points ยท Posted at 15:23:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Felt like they really missed big opportunities to make something epic or different...
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 16:16:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
spursaustralia ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:15:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was incredibly different, and I think that's why some people hate it
E-Shark ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 03:31:40 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How was it different in a good way though? I fail to see it
spursaustralia ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:12:23 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I found it refreshing, but that's just my personal opinion
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:28:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They didn't miss an opportunity to make a lot of cash though.
E-Shark ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:35:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hell yeah to fluffy long eared bird and shiny salt cat toys
[deleted] ยท 67 points ยท Posted at 18:00:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
RobertElessar ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 18:20:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
yep. Original trilogy was pointless and the characters' actions meant nothing.
howbloodygoodismilk ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:27:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is set 30 years in the future? There has been peace for the past 30 years because of what they did?
[deleted] ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 18:41:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:23:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Naah. The EU was pretty good and had some good stuff that coulda been adapted. But Disney decided to retcon all of it for... whatever is going on here.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:34:18 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thrawn Trilogy films would have been pretty cool.
DNamor ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:02:00 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yup, that's my issue with TFA and it's only been made worse here.
Love it or hate it, at least the EU setup that the good guys were successful. Here they did nothing, everything happens again and they all just die old and bitter without achieving anything.
broiamsohigh ยท 91 points ยท Posted at 16:30:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Good:
The Kylo Ren character was fleshed out more by adding more backstory, this makes the characters motivations more interesting.
The visuals are really amazing, I think this is one of the nicest looking SW films.
Bad:
The writing in the story felt convenient at times, there was always some magic way to escape from a situation no matter how bad it was, the most blatant example being when Finn and Rose escape execution.
The new Rose character was very bland and I felt like every scene which included her slowed down the film.
So many wasted opportunities... Everything that TFA set up, Snoke, Phasma, the Knights of Ren, arguably Rey's origins was just thrown out the window.
The Leia Mary Poppins scene was fucking horrible in my opinion and really sets the tone for the type of shit that they pull off in this movie.
Disney is fucking with this movie badly, and you can notice, with its Marvelesque humor and cute characters made to sell merchandise.
Conclusion: To my taste its the worst of the Star Wars films (even worst than Ep 1). Heres to hoping they redeem themselves the next movie.
Lundorff ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:06:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Backstory yes, but he is now supposed to be the "big evil" in episode 9. Compare him to Vader & The Emperor and there is no contest. Whomever thought it was a great idea to make Kylo a hotheaded, unintelligent maniac should be fired. Vader was cruel but in a professional and balanced sorta way, and The Emperor was sinister and evil personified. Kylo is just fucking annoying.
QuickSteam7 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:59:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wow... You hated this movie but you are still ready to buy a ticket to the next one?
People like you are why we are going to get 50 more star wars movies.
[deleted] ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 16:36:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Destructoranal ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:54:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I find it funny how Star Wars fan say to love Star Wars and still despise (soon to be in 2019) 2/3 of it
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:58:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
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Argh0naut ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:45:45 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This movie made me appreciate the predictability of TFA.
RzK ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 18:00:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
My biggest problem with the new films is that the world just doesn't feel alive to me... it doesn't feel real and lived in, I can't place my finger on why exactly that is. Maybe someone with similar feelings can explain better.
Even the prequels did a better job at making you feel like you're in an alive Star Wars universe, despite their flaws. And they didn't have to go "OH THIS IS STAR WARS YOU'RE WATCHING BTW" with references and crap... takes me out of it when they do that.
Disney hit the biggest jackpot ever with SW and they're obviously not interested in making a worthy 7,8 and 9. They just want to sell BB-8 Toys to kids while getting away with mediocrity. This is The Hobbit all over again, but with Star Wars.
ddd4175 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:58:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You know, I kinda get what you mean. The casino part was when I started to feel that "hey! This is star wars!" Until it just cuts back to the usual bits. Everything else feels too contained, too small.
5littlewhitevicodin ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 20:41:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I absolutely despised all the lame humour which brought the stoicism of characters like Kylo, Luke and to a lesser degree Rey into question.
I can't believe the scene with Poe at the start where he's trolling Hux, and the part where Kylo gives Hux the eye when he repeats to fire all lasers at Luke.. what the hell man
AnalogueWaves ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 01:13:00 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I appreciate the fact Rian Johnson tried to take risks and do things differently in a Star Wars movie, but I have to be honest and say not much paid off for me.
For the second film in a trilogy, I don't feel like I know any more than I did at the end of The Force Awakens. Who is Snoke? Where is the Republic? How did this whole conflict come to be in the first place?
There were things I definitely really enjoyed about the film, but these are essentially boiled down to certain moments rather than anything bigger or meaningful. When Rey and Kylo team up, cool scene, good visuals, exciting. But that's it. Nothing deeper. When Laura Dern light-speeds through the star destroyer, cool visuals, great moment, but she was only introduced an hour previously and I know absolutely nothing about her, so why should I really care? There are so many moments where I felt like that and it was just a pretty empty experience for me overall.
caliban- ยท 146 points ยท Posted at 15:06:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just got out of a screening in London. Wow - that was not good. At the same time formulaic and dull yet with really chaotic and out of place creative ideas. TFA was a fairly generic, servicable film, but this was something else entirely. I can't blame Rian Johnson though, what could he do? On one side you have people (rightfully) complaining about TFA being too committee produced, of lacking originality. On the other side you have that committee, Disney, breathing down your neck, forcing in toy merchandise (I don't believe his Puffin story for a minute) and silly Marvel humour and commercialism. Then you've got a bunch of pointless characters to cram in. All this while being a really interesting, creative film maker yourself. How could this be anything other than a mess?
What is really baffling me are the critic reviews. No way is this a 86 Metacritic film. Even though I didn't love TFA, I could accept the acclaim as it was coherent and well made. This just feels like I'm in a parallel universe to the critics.
[deleted] ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 16:34:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A lot of it is peer pressure and hob-knobbing because the film industry feeds itself and needs to hype its own business.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:46:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And also the backlash against those who say otherwise. People were being very dismissive about CNN and Variety (spoilers sucks), but now I've seen some already saying Variety's review is actually the one they agree the most.
Holybasil ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:09:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Do you happen to have a link to that review?
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:03:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
http://variety.com/2017/film/reviews/star-wars-the-last-jedi-review-rian-johnson-1202635597/amp/#click=https://t.co/LG43z6cG5z
Holybasil ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:22:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Appreciate it. So far it's also the review I've agreed with the most.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 17:12:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
yeah disney films drive box office, especially star wars films, helps to keep theaters relevant. but critics by collaborating with disney are trying to stem the direction movies are going - to day and date at home streaming. critics sold themselves out with this movie.
walkingtheriver ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 19:40:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This truly baffles me as well. This movie was entertaining, but it was not so well made that it can get an 80+ metacritic rating. Just no way
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 17:42:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I saw it with the critical adulation for the ANH copy that was TFA but it's apparent now: we live in the era of fake reviews.
_dunno_lol ยท 38 points ยท Posted at 15:41:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ofcourse not. Disney has enough money to pay for great reviews while the rest of the people are going to love it for the Star Wars brand alone. Christ, Disney banned the L.A. Times for a time on a bad review. Did people forget this already?
ammobox ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 17:03:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Bad review or investigation and story about Disney dealings in Anaheim?
Dutchy115 ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 17:24:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm so fucking happy that I've seen genuine intelligent criticism in the first discussion thread I stumbled across. The review scores had me worried it was just gonna be another dick sucking festival like the fan and critic reaction to TFA was.
I did not like this god damn film. I thought the Force Awakens was not bad but too safe and bland to be anything truly good, but I had to contend with the entire universe deep-throating it and dismissing all criticism as 'just hating it because it's popular'.
So I'm glad that's not the case here, at least so far.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:06:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Most critics are caitiff wretches, too scared to voice their own opinions, only heeding the pressure from professional peers and Internet hooligans.
ruhbuhjuh ยท 91 points ยท Posted at 12:59:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, boy. I loved parts of it. Reyโs storyline was the best part of the film by a mile. The Kylo/Rey Force conversations were interesting and different. The lightsaber scene where Kylo and Rey absolutely wreck shop is beautiful. Luke has a hero shot in front of some AT-ATs that is a stunner. The part where Laura Dern suicides herself at light speed was visually amazing. On a visual level, itโs really cool.
Mad respect to Rian Johnson for writing and directing and executing his very singular Star Wars vision and somehow managing to pull it off.
But. My god. It makes a lot of choices that range from questionable to bizarre to downright stupid. It undoes so much of the good work TFA set up. Kylo regressed as a character. Finn became the wise cracking, Ron Weasley sidekick. Snoke is a non-fucking-entity. Yoda showing up took me out of the film entirely. Leia surviving a missile and then force flying through space back to the ship. The entire casino scene wouldnโt have looked out of place in the damn prequels. It goes so, so overboard with the creatures that it becomes a distraction (fuck the porgs, honestly).
To me, it felt like Johnson just didnโt like some of TFA and decided to fuck it all away and do his own thing. Itโs a sequel in a trilogy that almost doesnโt advance the story in anyway, it effectively reboots it. Itโs a film made by a guy who is clearly in love with the originals and wanted to pay homage to them, but it doesnโt fit with the modern film-scape. TFA managed to balance the old and the new beautifully, it was a sequel to them while updating it for a new audience. Last Jedi is a regression.
I donโt know where Episode 9 goes from here.
drivendreamer ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:42:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They will start by having a time jump and sending off Leia. Poe will then become the leader of the Rebels, somehow learning from what happened here. They will send Rey out to learn from the stolen books and build the lightsaber, similar to Luke in Episode VI.
My bet is Kylo will basically become Vader and the First Order will conquer most of the galaxy. In IX it will be all about the Rebels making a final stand while Rey and Kylo, both more powerful, have a final confrontation. I almost hope there is not a cliche coming back to the light redemption, but as it is Disney, there may be.
jiggatron69 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:34:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Iโd rather watch crash test dummy videos instead of this
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:37:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Do that then.
jiggatron69 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:33:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Episode 9 will just be Star Wars: Confusing Subplots That Have No Payoff
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:24:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
ruhbuhjuh ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:30:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Worrying to have to retcon a retcon
Velocisexual ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:03:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think you grossly overestimate how much say Johnson had in any of that. This is all Disney trying to rectify what they believe were the main issues with TFA.
ruhbuhjuh ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:13:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Probably true, but I find it odd that Disney would have huge input on that aspect while still allowing all the other supremely weird shit in the film?
slothunderyourbed ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:49:01 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think so. Johnson has said many, many times that he essentially had full creative control over the film. Besides that, most of the script was written before TFA, and only slightly tweaked after TFA came out to include the TFA characters slightly more whilst cutting down on Johnson's new characters.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:17:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rey vs Kylo
Snoke and Luke are out of the picture so we don't have to worry about them pulling strings in the background. Poe will be the leader of the rebellion, with Leia having died at some point. Hux will be struggling to lead the First Order whilst keeping Kylo in check. That just leaves Finn, who honestly feels like dead wood.
I think they've set up Episode IX so that it can go in great direction but I don't like how they went about it.
Portmanteau_Pat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:02:56 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Already waiting for Porg inspired fleshlights.
leftysarepeople2 ยท 79 points ยท Posted at 16:32:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just a few gripes:
Character bios appearing on screen.
Dropping bombs in space.
Lobbing lasers in space.
Carrie Fischer Supermanโing (why didnโt she hold onto the table to begin with?)
Who was Snoke?
Hamfisted Monaco/rich people profit from war storyline.
Llama stampede.
How did the dice stay on the ground? And why would Leia leave them? Unless she knew he was fake and they were too, then why wouldnโt she start the evacuation?
The Jedi temple maidens.
The milking cow-dragon.
The fishing with a tooth on a 60 ft pole. How did he drag that up without the force?
That was the Phasma payoff?
Is BB8 going to get nerfed?
Is Chewie anything more than a chauffeur without Han?
When will they stop saying โDeath Star techโ? We get it.
Why follow the Ice-Eeveeโs? Follow the fucking draft. Did they have lighters a long time ago?
So Kylo just killed all his buddies from the Academy because he likes a girl?
Rose is a mediocre character that had too many serious moments put on her actress.
Just asking for Benicio-to-Collector fan fiction
How were they tracking the ship through hyperspace? I know the lead ship was for the Order but how on the Rebelโs side?
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 21:55:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What character bios?
leftysarepeople2 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 22:46:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe it was only international or Korean version that has them but little blurbs showing up the first time a character was on screen
StarblindMark89 ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 23:16:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Must be Korean version. I saw in Italy (English language, but subtitles in Italian), no bios.
The_Blog ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:11:15 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Dito, no character bios in the german version either. It was dubbed though. So maybe thats why.
StarblindMark89 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:14:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm thinking at this point that Disney might have put that in certain countries where Star Wars wasn't as culturally ingrained as in the Anglophone countries + most of Europe.
doublehyphen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:37:31 on December 30, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Probably, there were no character bios on the version with Swedish subtitles.
[deleted] ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 00:45:59 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
One of the asian versions has subtitles with character bios when characters show up on screen.
The person posting here hasn't actually seen the movie, he saw a few clips posted online and is making a huge writeup about his "gripes" with the movie (without having seen it). Which is hilarious.
leftysarepeople2 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:43:24 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I saw it. And youโre hilarious, not in the good way.
66th_jedi ยท 35 points ยท Posted at 17:25:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The guys in red weren't the Knights of Ren.
Akranidos ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 21:47:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
where are they anyway? never appeared on the flashback and luke only gave a passing line about them
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 22:40:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Even fascist soldiers have vacations, bro.
leftysarepeople2 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 22:48:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My bad, I remember some concept art before TFA had them with lightwhips and dual bladed lightsabers that so assumed that was them
DavidOrWalter ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:22:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wait, when did this happen?? I saw it and have no recollection of these things intersecting.
magickmidget ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 22:08:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They've confused the Praetorian Guards with the Knights of Ren.
thesirenlady ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 22:26:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Correct. And the Knights of Ren are never coming back. They're off with Constable Zuvio in the scrapped idea rim.
Pyronaut44 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:00:34 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Which is really disappointing.
stabbybit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:04:22 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nah, those guys were just Snoke's Scrubs.
Nobody knows what happened with the missing Academy initiates who sided with Ren. Checkhov left that gun on the mantle.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:53:24 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I love how Ben is meant to be incredibly powerful but some dude with a stick can choke him from behind.
bedbugsex ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:37:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
These are excellent points, but are you being sarcastic or do you mean you still liked the movie?
leftysarepeople2 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:43:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Iโm disappointed in the directing/writing of this movie. The overall story was fine but Jesus they screwed the pooch on execution. The cinematography had moments of greatness. The music was a little repetitive or inappropriately timed I felt. Acting was good for what they had to work with from the 5/6 carry overs from TFA. Secondary characters were hit or miss for me
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:42:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, the music was very abrupt sometimes. It took you out of the scene.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:06:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Who are you saying was tracking the ship on the Rebel side?
Discostu97 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:28:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's alolan vulpix, not glaceon
Jezawan ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 23:12:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
These are some of the most insignificant gripes I've read. What's wrong with the maidens and the big dragon with the tits? They were cool moments that helped build the world and expand the universe.
Also those dudes weren't the Knights of Ren? And even if they were, they attacked Kylo, what exactly was he gonna do?
leftysarepeople2 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:06:23 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Maidens were alright if they didnโt make it seem like Luke was a hermit first.
Dragon did not do any world building. It was 10 seconds of shit movie making.
Iโve been corrected on the Knights of Ren, but their weapons are similar to the TFA concept art
Jezawan ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 00:30:10 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm curious what you have against the tit dragons? I thought it was a fun little thing that showed Luke going about his daily life in an interesting way. Not sure how it could be classed as shit movie making?
leftysarepeople2 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:56:58 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It looked like the fucked up version of a DragonTales character. Just get a 4 legged bovine creature like a Bantha or something
chachakhan ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:09:36 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The name you used to describe them should be enough of a reason.
Tit Dragons
ThugHammer ยท 44 points ยท Posted at 16:27:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I laughed, BY FAR, at TLJ more than any other film in the series. And its all thanks to Carrie Poppins. Seeing Leia supermaning through space was so cringy, that it went full circle into something so beautiful. I was weeping tears from laughing, my abdomen was aching so badly. I initially thought, this is almost impossibly stupid. But, I slowly realized that to cause me to have an uncontrollable visceral reaction like this, it was actually genius. Now it may have not gotten the intended reaction, but none the less I was now engaged fully to see what Disney approved stupidity was next. While this was their crowning achievement of cringe, there were plenty of other unintended humor that I quite enjoyed. From this moment on when some says Star Wars, my first initial thought won't be Luke staring off into a binary sunset, the Death Star trench run, Luke and Vader's exchange on Bispin, or the end of RotJ. No, this image will forever be burned into my head. Not even Fonzie himself could jump the shark this epically. 11/10
Minscota ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:30:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lots of schlock for sure. RLM guys are going to love this because of how awful it is, yet hilariously bad.
montell088 ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 16:50:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Can't wait to see them shred this shitfest.
Minscota ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 16:52:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Same. This movie basically ruined all standing cannon about the jedi. Its fucking awful. We have light side force users, using dark side force abilities as force ghosts who cant interact with the real world.
What the fuck was disney thinking?
trestkon212 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:55:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, abilities aren't limited to a specific side of the force outside the video games. It's more about intent. Also, Yoda more so changes the weather.
That being said, I can't wait for the RLM video. When people talked about Leia flying I thought it was a bad description of her pulling herself to debris or something using the force. But oh my gooooood
Minscota ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:08:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In the books it was limited unless you were a grey jedi.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:34:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It jumped the ship.
[deleted] ยท 46 points ยท Posted at 22:05:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
eroland420 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:29:34 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, in ESB the officers who took Tarkin's role were pretty hilarious, adding to their incompetence were the OG Vader quips. "Apology accepted, Captain Needa..." etc.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:28:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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BioregenerativeLamp ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:32:34 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not the whole thing but definetly stained here and there. I mean BB8 saving them by controling an AT-ST?
MadLuky6 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:10:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wormtail of Star Wars franchise. Edit: I loved his speech in TFA. So powerful and scary.
_Ishmael ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 17:20:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I hate to say it but I was kind of underwhelmed. TFA wasn't very original in its plot but I really liked the new characters, loved seeing the old ones, and overall it was just a really exciting film. TLJ just left me kind of cold. I'm not saying this to be controversial, I really wanted to like it.
schmeily2 ยท 405 points ยท Posted at 11:49:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm prepared for the epic downvotes, but I didn't rate this movie sadly.
It was far, far too similar to standard Disney/Marvel fare, and some of the humour moments ruined characters for me. For example Snoke.... to spend nearly two films building up his menace and pure dark side and power, to have him boop Rey on the back of the head with the lightsabre? Just no.
Killing him off also left an issue with me and who the main big bad will be. They've spent two films emphasising how horrifically flawed Kylo is in every aspect. Combat? He can be bested. Tactics? He can be manipulated or tricked. Patience? Combustible personality. We will now have to go through yet another film to build him up to a tangible threat to any of our heroes, more wasted screen time. What makes this more frustrating is I am a big fan of how they've handled his arc and really like him as a character, he is just nowhere near ready being the front face of the dark side. (The obvious lie about Rey's parents at the end may add some possibilities here I guess.)
The Leia revive-in-space scene was just.... ffs. What made this worse is the scene of her floating out the ship (assumed dead) from the explosion was beautifully shot and would have been a fitting end for her.
The things added in for blatant merchandising opportunities were grating.
It seemed a waste that the main goodies never met on screen to develop relationships. E.g. Rey and Finn, I loved their back and forth in Force Awakens and it is completely missing from this. Even Finn and Poe got very little time.
Finally... there was no lightsaber-on-lightsaber fight scene. For shame. As good as the Snoke-room fight with the elite Praetorian guards was, I wanted an epic face off!
A 5/10. It's not bad... but it isn't great. In no rush to see it again.
[deleted] ยท 65 points ยท Posted at 14:04:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
schmeily2 ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 14:47:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
At first I was okay with them. For one or two scenes they were alright like you say... then not only did they overdo them, but the ice-wolf/Glaceon ripoffs took it a step further and I'd had enough of the film by that point
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:40:34 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
schmeily2 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 08:27:46 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There was no need to make the wildlife that shiny or cute.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:56:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That was the only scene where I heard a few chuckles, every other porg scene was just awkward silence.
TheBigFreezer ยท 112 points ยท Posted at 12:56:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Holy shit, that's what it was. It was like a marvel movie. I was struggling putting my finger on it.
Spirit_Panda ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 15:24:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Tbh the humour written into TFA felt like it was straight out of the Disney Marvel films. I really dislike that they thought that kind of cheap humour was needed in a Star Wars film.
AnOnlineHandle ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 16:30:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I like Marvel movies, I didn't like this. :/
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 17:19:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because the Marvel movies have a certain feel that suits the humor, Star Wars doesn't.
Wiffernubbin ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 01:33:17 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Star wars used to lean into its drama and nail it. Now its quips and jokes.
AnOnlineHandle ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:28:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That might be part of it, but tbh I didn't feel like this had much humor after the start. It was more that plots just went nowhere and huge teases were just dropped without any explanation for how it fits together. The MCU - for the most part, until Dr Strange - managed to tell a tightly knit universe which worked quite cleverly, adding in prior heroes in past decades etc with shared actors managing the organization which branched it all etc. It's only in the recent few movies that it's begun to feel like they no longer have a branching connection and are beginning to rely on stupid coincidence to bring these people and events together.
alIt_er_kyrrt ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:24:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I haven't seen the movie, does that mean every character is sassy and there isn't a scene that doesn't end with a one liner?
Nawpo ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 16:32:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You know how in Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 2 every single emotional moment is neutered by a joke or quip?
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:20:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, now I know what it reminded me of.
FunInStalingrad ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:39:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What else could it have been? TFA had MCYU written all over it style wise.
Dragshisballsz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:31:55 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
theres no actual story or plot, its just style over substance. none of the decisions matter and the ones that are made are just retarded. the characters from the OT are completely unrecognizable and are making decisions that their actual characters never would.
[deleted] ยท 157 points ยท Posted at 13:15:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
schmeily2 ยท 41 points ยท Posted at 13:26:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Very well put.
I alluded to it in the Kylo-being-main-baddie comment, but where episode IX goes from here is so problematic.
The fan service is also an excellent point. I need to rewatch it to see if it was just me being cranky or not, but the first 15-20 minutes of Luke on the island just felt like a tickbox of responses to fan queries. What does he eat? Where does he sleep? How did he get there with no wreckage? The fish spearing pole scene.... why is that there? Why were the caretaker things there other than for purely comedic relief?
[deleted] ยท 40 points ยท Posted at 13:37:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
TheLast_Centurion ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:46:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Imagine race of training out Rey and Kylo and then later off going 2vs2, Luke vs Snoke Vs Kylo vs Rey. Hmm..
[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 19:55:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The man's a heretic. No respect for TFA, its popularity, and the mysteries it raised โ which, in the hands of a creative writer, could have been expanded and revealed in fascinating ways. I deeply resent The Last Jedi, for these and all the aforementioned reasons.
TheLast_Centurion ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:39:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Agree, but I would just like to add that Phasma was, besides new shiny color, never cool. IMO
baktiar77 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 16:07:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah probably some of the greatest special effects and music(and absence of music in certain scenes) Iโve seen, perhaps only bested by Dunkirk.
However the fucking plot was poorly executed. Some great ideas but zero creativity on solving the problems.
It seemed so weird that Rey who spend the first half of the movie convincing Luke to help the resistance just goes to visit Kylo with zero contingency plans all on the whim that there might be a small glimmer of good in him in a couple of mins.
Also the number of times BB8 bails the protagonists out of trouble when theyโre about to be caught or killed is just a cheap plot device. I mean heโs great droid and all but come on.
The one thing I appreciated is that there were no bullshit love triangles or any other nonsense. Thank god, part of me feared for the worst.
Nzash ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:43:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Well said, I can't believe the movie is sitting at the rotten tomatoes score it has right now, it does the actual quality of it no justice.
Safe to say I fully agree with Mark Hamill when I remember him saying that he fundamentally disagreed with everything he read regarding Luke in the script of EP8. I disagree too.
I think it's one thing to make a bad new movie, but it's another to also drag things from previous ones people loved such as Luke through the mud and treat them like this.
ImmaSquidling ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:11:52 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Everything in that statement was... spot on.
MurderousPaper ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:53:39 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's what TFA and R1 felt like to me. For context, I love all three of the new films under Disney's regime.
theivoryserf ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:59:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rogue One was shite
TheChokenOne ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 13:30:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Epic downvoted? Your opinion is probably the majority's.
schmeily2 ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 13:33:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I am realising this now.... when I posted there was a mix of for's & against.
These comments are restoring my faith in fellow film lovers after having a colleague spend the morning telling me how Last Jedi is a masterpiece.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:09:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
the problem is these movies by disney are just designed for mass market appeal. there is no grand creative vision behind it. they just tick the boxes and it works for regular joe.
schmeily2 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 08:32:04 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah. Someone summed it up to me succinctly (but brutally) as "it's Star Wars dumbed down to the lowest possible denominator".
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:18:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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fgdadfgfdgadf ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:17:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The problem with current cinema in a nutshell, the casuals eat it up and reviewers are too scared to give a real rating.
Dutchy115 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:25:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No downvotes for you friend. You speak the big true-true. This film is an embarrassment.
YgRoB ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:52:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just some fanboy opinion here but I was totally prepared for some Jedi Master badassery when Luke appeared at the end but then... that was it. Liked the movie overall but it severely lacked duels. :(
walkingtheriver ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:08:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That was definitely a disappointment. That they put in Luke at the very end of TFA with no lines or anything made me expect that he'd be in TLJ in full force, being a super badass. But no, just a projection of his body and then he dies. So anti climactic
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:00:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The projection thing was so over the top, as was the all but physical connection between Rey and Kylo. The film jumped the shark about fifty times.
Death_Star_ ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:49:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What chaps my hide the most is Rian Johnson instagramming in like January 2016:
Of course, it was all in good fun, but when you tweet/IG something like that out, at best youโll have people patiently waiting for your mind blowing reveal and at worst youโll have the fans frothing at zero closure regarding how he not only came to be, but what he was doing and why he was doing whatever during the OT.
MAYBE OUR SNOKE THEORIES SUCK BECAUSE YOU CREATIVES COULD NOT COME UP WITH ANYTHING GOOD ENOUGH.
He looks ancient. Like pre-prequels ancient. I feel like we deserved a backstory.
Even Marvel villains get a 20 second โoh, Kacelius came to us a broken man and took zealots with himโ explanation from Marvel films.
gdsgdn ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:56:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was also very much missing a lightsaber duel :/
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:13:57 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This movie was not good. Completely agree with you.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:08:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
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schmeily2 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 13:16:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The fact that is the extent of it is really depressing... even if I did like the Luke-being-the-final-push arc for Kylo.
Daniel24595 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:45:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Also on that note about flashbacks, is that the first flashback in a star wars movie?
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:22:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Daniel24595 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:32:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I knew about the force visions but not about the prequels. Thanks for clearing that up
rebb1t ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:29:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Man, u ainโt gonna get downvotes. This movie was trash
_Ardhan_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:24:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree 100%. And people keep raving about the Rey/Kylo team-up, but I was left wanting a proper lightsaber fight.
tregregins ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:38:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Sounds like you want some fan service. A big bad guy, a light saber duel, some buddy buddy scenes. I feel like this film will definitely split opinions and challenge people which is exactly what it should be, star wars films need to move in different directions and not rehash old plots.
Never change /r/movies. If your opinion isnโt the circlejerk you get downvotes. Great discussion.
schmeily2 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:45:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If anything I want the opposite. I want them to be creative with the amazing lore and components Star Wars has instead of making a copy-paste blockbuster film.
tregregins ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:57:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thats a shame you feel that way, hopefully you'll enjoy the next one a bit more!
BeastCoast ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:24:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Right because Yoda coming out of nowhere to Ten Commandment the temple and Echo Base 2.0 aren't fan service.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 17:20:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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BeastCoast ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:24:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why the fuck is he obligated to like it? It's his opinion. What a useless comment.
schmeily2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:30:46 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"As good as the Snoke-room fight with the elite Praetorian guards was"..... "I am a big fan of how they've handled his arc and really like him as a character"..... "the scene of her floating out the ship (assumed dead) from the explosion was beautifully shot "
Read before making yourself look like an idiot. This film had positives, that were far outweighed by the negatives, which is a waste for something with so much potential.
WISE_SEMEN ยท 65 points ยท Posted at 20:15:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone here said everything, I'll just add I'm hugely disappointed and sad.
imthebest33333333 ยท 73 points ยท Posted at 15:21:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I wouldn't have paid money to see this if I knew I was going to watch what was basically an MCU film. Why did they feel the need to ruin every dramatic moment with facetious quips?
_Ardhan_ ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 17:30:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's like they have a deadly allergy to any dialogue lasting more than a minute at a time.
Spatkommen92 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:00:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because that would force them to actually develope characters
moderate-painting ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:08:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's not how the force works!
DevilMayCryGuy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:54:47 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I donโt know why people keep negatively comparing this to the MCU...the MCU at least has jokes that mostly work and are generally really good films. TLJ has no good jokes and is just kinda meh as a film.
NotTheBees_ARGH ยท 57 points ยท Posted at 21:07:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kannedy have done to Luke Skywalker's character is inexcusable. They destroyed the image people have had of him for 30 years, all in the name of making Rey the one end-all be-all heroine of the Star Wars franchise.
For all the faults of the prequels, they at least never went as far as complete character assassination of long standing beloved cultural icons like this. Fuck Disney.
[deleted] ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 22:56:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Luke Skywalker saw the good in DARTH VADER of all people, he would never have even have a moment of concern over Ben's possible dark side. Not to mention he left his Jedi training because he felt uneasy about his friends, he would never just abandon the galaxy cause of one mistake.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 02:00:13 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, it would be much better if Luke had been too naive and ignored the dark side growing in Ben, thinking he alone could do something even when it was to late.
Maybe say it wasn't a good idea to separate a young teenager from his parents, and that made him vulnerable to Snoke.
Luke even thinking about killing his nephew is completely out of character.
slurpie10 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:00:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yoda, Vader
C'mon now.
SirFloppyDotA ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 23:18:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah the prequels showed that the reason Vader is evil is because he didnโt get a promotion at work and had some bad dreams.
slurpie10 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:21:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He and Obi-Wan were also best friends despite being pissed at each other 24/7.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:20:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know, I really felt like for the third act Luke was the main hero. Though I'll concede him dying leaves it wide open for Rey to become the lead again.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:20:53 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But Luke didin't kill Kylo, he pulled back on his decision.
[deleted] ยท 43 points ยท Posted at 20:28:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
mariusmule ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 20:37:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Itโs likely they got some โbonusesโ from The Mouse. Many of these critics are also women.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 21:20:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
greeb666 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:15:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I am convinced it is like game reviews. If you give a bad review chances are you won't get given the game again and paid next time. With films, you don't get to preview it.
In some ways if critics pan a movie that I know something about I actually tend to enjoy the film more. I think it is because they aren't getting a benefit for that review and they tend to be harsh even when the film is good.
Rotten Tomatoes has always been shit, I was hoping meta critic would be better but then I saw what they gave the force awakens.
stabbybit ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:11:52 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
To be fair, after how painfully mediocre TFA was, and how fans threw themselves into defending it, I honestly didn't think the hardcore Star Wars fans would be this upset about it, lol. I got all but textually assaulted over my feelings about TFA, and that's a movie with a plot that functions solely on convenience and contrivance, and the conclusion is impossible without a series of random encounters. That film basically hurtles along without any regard for logic or causal relationships, and the protagonists are flatter than cheap pizza. And I got a ton of flak for pointing that out. It wouldn't surprise me if critics just didn't phone in reviewing this one to avoid the backlash. I made my own review a two-part. First half for the "If you just really like Star Wars" and then a second half with mild spoilers for those interested in a more objective take on the film, lol.
To me, and I gave it a 6/10, it's silly and simplistic and the humor ruins a lot of the dramatic tension, but it's still kinda fun and I thought Mark Hammill was solid, and I liked the dialog between him and Yoda as they muse about things coming full circle.
It's unoriginal, the tone is wildly inconsistent, the race-against-the-clock plot structure was a poor choice, and the dialog is poor-to-bad. But that's about it. For popcorn movie fare, this fits the bill. I mean, at this point, I'm more surprised by a good Star Wars movie than I am by a bad one. Rogue One, despite its stilted editing and Disney's clear manipulation of the plot (that first Vader scene is painfully inserted), was shockingly enjoyable. But that's also because Rogue One took some risks, I guess.
I will say, though. Some parts of TFA I appreciate more after seeing TLJ. It definitely relies a lot less on exposition for scenebuilding and storytelling.
Portmanteau_Pat ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:35:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think I liked Rogue One so much because it was darker and grittier than most SW movies. It showed that even the rebels have a dark side with plain murder in the first few minutes, while also showing that the Empire had its fringes with the dirty troopers in the tank and the filthy prison. To me it made the SW universe more realistic.
Plus the high casualty rate. While in TLJ all the main characters are superheroes with almost Superman-esque survival skills.
TheAlta ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:43:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Probably massive campaign by Disney to generate enough buzz to keep the movie afloat
YAYSAY ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:58:49 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah the difference between reddit and the reviewers just shows that there's something fishy with the reviewers. I expected to come into this thread and see some disappointment but mostly praise. Almost every single post here is trashing it.
LDKCP ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 21:10:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I actually disagree. It seems the die hard fans have their qualms, but they are very nit picky. I thought it was a fantastic film with a few flaws.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 21:28:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not a diehard. Have only seem The Force Awakens (7/10) and Rogue (7.5/10) and thought this movie was bad.
theivoryserf ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 21:50:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you think R1 was a 7.5 and this was bad I don't know what to say to you
greeb666 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 23:16:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
R1 was good the TFA was awful.
peeorpoo ยท 120 points ยท Posted at 11:32:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Bloody hell. I hate that fucking forced romantic subplot. Rose is totally useless and it wouldnโt have made a difference if she was left out of the movie. In fact, the movie mightโve been better.
Honestly though, I found this to be one of the weaker Star Wars movies. I liked the connection between rei and Kylo Ren and the humor of this movie. But the action scenes of this movie werenโt that great and the death of Snoke was just a huge letdown.
This movie felt really forced to me, it doesnโt really try anything new and it feels really stale; it doesnโt take any risk and hence I was not really invested in this movie. There are actually many over the top moments in this movie, like when leia was sucked into space and she uses the force to pull herself back to the ship.
Overall, Iโd say that this might be the third weakest movie in the Star Wars universe.
NDuckL ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 12:01:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You honestly think this movie didn't try anything new ? It completely changed directions from where TFA was heading it felt like they are now truly headed in an new direction for Star Wars. TFA took the safest route possible, this movie closed some doors but opened so many other doors I'm super excited for EP IX, whish Rian Johnson would direct it. JJ has some big shoes to fill hopefully it'll be more like MI III or Star Trek 09, less like Into Darkness and TFA.
peeorpoo ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 12:11:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sorry but what new direction? In the end the rebels still gets fucked up and our heroes escapes death way too many times. A single X-wing is able to take out all the cannons of the dreadnaught and there are those cliche "self-sacrifice" moments that frankly I felt rogue one did better.
I would've said it tried something new if Rei had taken up Kylo's offer and they then went on to fuck some shit up.
To each his own then, I'm glad you enjoyed the movie though.
atomicbrett ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 12:45:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with u/peeorpoo, the opening scene with Poe in the X-wing, while badass, was totally unbelievable. Too many redshirts and nothing of consequence happening in this film aside from Luke
bedbugsex ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 12:59:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was falling asleep thinking that's the only thing that could make the movie interesting but then I remembered if the movie hasn't had the balls to kill a single main character, would have the balls to do this?
Adamulos ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:46:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Something new would be rey and ren deciding to fight together as grey side, with luke understanding that's wrong and sacrificing himself to let rebels run. Last movie then would be about fighting rey as a traitor to rebels, ren as traitor to order, hux for order, poe for rebels. But they really wanted to keep black and white sadly.
DavidOrWalter ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:34:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes - Having the NO and rebels join up to fight Rey/Ren and realizing they should work together and that will make the galaxy a more stable place would be trying something new. This is the good person not compromising, the evil person being internally confused but wanting to rule the galaxy with them and both rejecting the other's offer.
walkingtheriver ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:58:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Grey side of the force... That would have actually been really cool!
nashist ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:47:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Disagree with not taking risks, it did and two of them really paid off.
Bit agree with the rest
jm434 ยท 49 points ยท Posted at 11:46:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I both enjoyed and disliked the movie.
Perhaps after watching sci-fi stories like BSG, Babylon 5, even Star Trek to some extent I've just become really disappointed in how Star Wars handles space battles. The best it has got is honestly the prequels (opening scene in III) and the clone wars animated series.
TLJ follows the same formula, capital ships that don't have point defense cannons (because we have to constantly cash in on that trench run nostalgia), ineffective fighter screens that only launch after the fact, battles that feel like everyone that isn't the character being focused time freezes and don't do anything. Ships that act like they are being controlled by amateurs and not experienced commanders. (This isn't an issue if a commander is shown to be incompetent, but why is it every Empire/First Order commander is an idiot?). I could go on but I think everyone gets the idea on my thoughts.
The best scene however, is the rebel cruiser turning into a hyperspeed missile. Being completely silent with different angle shots was just incredible. I don't think I've felt an entire theatre stunned into silence before now and it was amazing.
But this amazing scene is 'ruined' when you think about it. Why didn't the admiral do it sooner? The movie made it out like she watched half the transports die before acting.
Also If hyperspeed weapon tech is a thing (and in TFA starkiller uses it, otherwise it makes even less sense) why is it not widespread? Why have capital ships if a fighter could just kamikaze? Sure you can argue that there must be counter-tech and posit that it was turned off because the FO wanted the rebels to jump, but then why are rebel ships able to escape in every other scene in every other movie? Just another case of dues ex machina like in every other lazy story telling, only brought out because that's what the plot wants.
Now why did the Admiral not tell Poe or his other co-conspirators the plan? An entire section of the movie hinges on Poe thinking she's a traitor and ends up being the reason why the plan fails and 80% of the rebels are killed. Not to mention the entire Casino planet sub-plot was just awful, didn't feel like star wars and seemed to be in just to pad the runtime and distract from the fact that the entire fucking plot is based around the rebels escaping. Where's what happens directly after the republic core planets are inscinerated? It gets a couple lines in the opening scroll and that's it? Why don't we see the FO cementing itself as the de-facto rulers instead of just being told?
Between TFA and TLJ the overarching story has been cut down to its bare essentials. It doesn't feel like we're in a galaxy with thousands of world's, species and trillions of inhabitants, all with their unique cultures and influences.
The entire movie felt like a Marvel film because there now has to be a joke or physical gag undercutting every serious scene. I hate it in the marvel films and now it's been forced into SW as well.
Leia suddenly becoming one with the force and surviving vacuum was cheap as hell. Not to mention she exposed an entire pressurized corridor to vacuum when she came back aboard.
Finn being saved by the 'love interest' who is supposedly a lowly support staffer but ends up being just as superhuman that can do anything was also cheap. Also who crashes into a flimsy, windowless speeder that's being disintegrated by the cough battering ram cannon (really?!) and think to themselves the pilot can totes survive? Oh wait it's a main character, I'm being silly.
The only thing that saved this movie was all of the Luke-Ray-Kylo interactions. They were really well done (apart from a couple lines of cringey dialogue). While it sucks that Snoke ended up being a minor character, I enjoyed Kylo going full Sith and killing his master. I really didn't want him to be redeemed because we've had that already with Vader.
Also the red bodyguards finally got to do something and the entire fight sequence was awesome.
I think I should stop considering how long this has got.
atomicbrett ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 12:48:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like the casino planet was supposed to help that right? Otherwise most of the film would have just been on the rebel ship or Luke's island. I enjoyed it as a break from the monotony atleast.
I also agree with you on the plot armor for Leia and Finn. Leia being killed of early would have been an excellent move seeing how she does nothing in the film besides say her goodbyes to Luke
jm434 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 12:53:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You make a good point. I guess I was just so annoyed by the Casino sub-plot that I felt it was a pointless distraction rather then as a way to show there's more going on outside of the FO/Rebels.
bedbugsex ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:19:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
My thoughts to a T except about the fight sequence. Poorly choreographed (subjective?), very slow movements, and made lightsabers seem very pointless. Sure it was multiple on one, but Rey and Kylo were both "defeated" one on one. I mean yeah if the bodyguards did something more effective than choking, this miserable trilogy could have ended.
And I'm more mixed on the Kylo Ray Luke storyline. Couple of problems: Making Kylo sympathetic half-worked, except it wasn't self defense to kill every other student. Luke was not redeemed he basically went from "I screwed up, to fuck it he needs to die and let me make fun of him while I'm at it". Rey is overly emotional for no reason and seems to have almost fallen in love with Kylo over Force Tinder.
jm434 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:48:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree it did seem very slow, like the bodyguards were quick to be 'en guarde' but their actions after the fact weren't.
It stems from the issue of them being main characters with plot armour. The bodyguards aren't going to do anything serious, though it wouldn't have gone amiss if we had had the classic SW trope of a limb being dismembered. With lightsabres feeling useless, I think that's the point, that the SW universe has moved on from the age of the Jedi/Sith and now competent people with lightsabre deflecting technology exist (hell the droids had those duel wielding purple stick robots during the Clone Wars).
That definitely could have been fleshed out more, even a couple quick scenes of Kylo and his Knights cutting down the other students would have been good. It highlights I think one of the main issues of the movie in that story elements (that don't directly affect the very small overall plot) are mostly told not shown.
For me, Luke's quip to Kylo at the end was out of place with how his character had been portrayed the entire film. But other than that the entire 'force projection' trolling was fantastic and I really like how Luke ended.
bedbugsex ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:06:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I guess that's a good point about lightsabers being outdated. Tr8tor beating Finn was another example (which was really well choregraphed). But then you wonder why Kylo even bothers with one when he's about "killing the past".
Yeah that might work if there were others, like a gang mentality/peer pressure situation. They could even make it so he wasn't even the one to physically do it (like blowing up Leia). And to be fair Anakin basically went from the same conflicted/sympathetic bad decision to full on youngling hunter like some sort of split personality.
The force trolling to save the rebels wasn't a terrible plot point and serves to show the folly of Kylo's anger (but also turns him into an extremely incompetent leader), but film doesn't seem to know how the audience should feel about the whole murder in the sleep issue. It's almost like Luke feels he was right all along in the end.
uravg ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:25:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Speaking of space battles my brother was mad at the parabolic motion of the cannon projectiles
Squallify ยท 40 points ยท Posted at 18:47:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Loved the animation and special effects. Hated the plot. No character developement whatsover, many stupid plot holes or scenes that led nowhere (the whole rose and finn trip? Only to sell cute horse monster toys?)
And dont get me started on Leia's space voyage. Ah, how far we have come from "sensing a perturbance in the force" when something happened in the other side of the universe to directly using the force to skype someone.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:26:14 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Arguably there was a lot of character development in Kylo, we see him going from a weak servant to Hux and Snoke to the leader of the First Order. Hes surpassed Vader in terms of leadership, as Vader could never overthrow Palpatine and still rule.
zazeron-of-shadow ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 22:09:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Better than whatever Lucas could come up with
[deleted] ยท 41 points ยท Posted at 19:21:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
lmao why even include Snoke then? What a shit movie.
GiveMeACLoak ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 00:12:31 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
For me, TLJ is a 6/10. I really liked Kylo Ren , Luke was great until they offed him for some reason and that throne battle scene was good.
My main gripe with is that it completely undoes episodes 1-6, the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker, the rebellion defeating the empire and balance being restored. Here the Republic is gone and Jedi are largely extinct after returning. The ST is trying to build a new world but it's tearing down the old one and that's my main issue.
There's Rose who was just disappointing, her storyline with Finn was pointless. I was really pissed that she saved Finn from trying to sacrifice himself since she shocked him earlier for trying to desert out the Escape Pod
Finn's potential was thrown out the window. Being an ex-stormtrooper who was trying to find his place in the galaxy was interesting at the start, he was an underdog from the get-go but in this movie his only chance to do something was cut-off by Rose's rescue which led to him accomplishing nothing.
Plus the premise of the First Order chasing a rebel fleet for about 3/4 was ridiculous. They have hundreds of fighters and bombers between them and couldn't blow up all four ships?
The rest: Space Leia, Snokes death and wasted potential, no Po Dameron development, Yoda's puppet being jarring and the constant jokes.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:39:38 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yoda's puppet was really fucking bad.
"But it was just like it was in the OG trilogy."
Well, there is something wrong when visual effects don't evolve after 40 years. Also, the older movies tried to hide how clunky it was. This one just shows front and center.
Halfie4Life ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:55:08 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Luke abandoned training to save his friends. Rushing off to face horrible odds has been the staple of a lot of starwars. I doesnt feel like they are undoing 1-6. They made a good point. There will always be good and evil. Light and dark. And the balance is like that island. The force will always be there. But one having more than the other is what vader stopped.
CerberusDriver ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 16:14:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thought this wasn't very good at all.
Kylo is officially the only interesting character, the only character with any gravitas.
Luke completely regressed as a character and then dies.
The Leia scene was just so ..strange, I felt so weird watching it ; I wouldn't call it cringe but it was just strange.
Yoda felt out of place, especially with that joke ; not to mention just the jokes in general felt very forced.
I guess they're officially ignoring their own canon in regards to the Force now; I guess anyone can become a master level force user.
Overall: I wouldn't see this again and I'm not excited for the next one.
DefaultPlayerChar ยท 70 points ยท Posted at 12:17:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The humour was the biggest problem. There is no coming back from it. It won't matter how many times I watch the movie, I'm not going to just get used to it. Have a serious fucking scene ffs. The writer/director fucked everything from Episode VII up. The movie was set up so well. There was no way to mess it up.
And then he fucking has Luke throw the light saber over his back and go be a dick. I would have thought it impossible to ruin Luke, but he literally did everything he possibly could to ruin the character. The only part of Luke I liked was that he sees himself a much younger man in his head. That's the sorry of humour that the movie should have been doing. A little covert vanity.
After 24 hours I'm just getting more and more angry. I've seen every Star Wars movie at midnight (the rerelease for the originals). I've never come out disappointed. But the more I think about this movie the more I'm just angry. It almost feels like it was made by two directors. Almost everything with Rey (as long as it didn't also feature Luke) was amazing. There were lots of good moments in the second half. But when more than 50% of the movie is bad there is a problem.
I can't believe that Disney gave this director/writer free rein. It is so bad. So very very bad. And now they want to give him the next trilogy. I'm done with Star Wars of that happens. I can only hope that the feedback from people that aren't sycophantic reviewers will cancel those plans.
Fuck the movie was bad.
stabbybit ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:33:21 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think they did. The non-stop bad humor is straight out of the MCU.
DefaultPlayerChar ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:57:35 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah. And it works for Thor. Not for Star Wars.
stabbybit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:59:21 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, it certainly does not. I still can't believe they ended Rey's establishing scene with the lightsaber with a sight gag where a rock destroys a turtlenun's cart and they stare up accusingly while she looks back with a "OMG, sorry" expression.
Good. Fucking. Lord.
I've joked it would be like ending the scene where Yoda lifts Luke's X-Wing out of the swamp by plopping it down and splashing Luke and R2D2 with mud, cutting back to a shot of Yoda shrugging with a smirk.
SandyBadlands ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 13:59:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You're telling me you didn't walk out of Phantom Menace disappointed? I can understand not walking out of AotC of RotS disappointed because by that point you should've expected the bucket of shit that they were.
AnOnlineHandle ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 16:48:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not the previous poster, but I feel like Phantom Menace still had some great mixed in with the terrible, stuff which felt really classic Star Wars such as the feel of the world and Qui Gon as the wise Jedi Sage, and the terrible stuff didn't feel like it broke the universe or established plot, it just wasn't well presented.
SandyBadlands ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:07:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Qui Gon the wise Jedi Sage that made incomprehensible decisions like let's get on separate dropships, or let's try and repair this incredibly conspicuous chrome ship instead of buying a non-descript one.
Midichlorians took a huge steaming turd on the universe.
Jar-Jar and little Annie were painful as characters.
People also trot out the "but the podracing was cool" or "Duel of the Fates was awesome". So what? Phantom Menace is an absolute mess of a movie.
AnOnlineHandle ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:17:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't see the problem with going on different drop ships? Worked out fine? Not necessarily great either, but I'm more talking from the force / dealing with Anakin's family situation / discussing being on the council / discussing the non-invincibility of Jedi / etc, it felt very interesting and in line with what had come before.
JJ was painful, I didn't mind most of kid Anakin. But they didn't break the universe or plot, which is critically important to me. Something which, at the end of the day, feels like a universe worth getting invested in.
The things I listed weren't podracing or duel of the fates.
SandyBadlands ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:34:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He had absolutely no way of knowing that they would land together. If he was truly wise he would have freed Shmi as well. He didn't have to let Anakin keep contact with her but the knowledge that she was somewhere safe would have eased a great burden on him.
Qui Gon's actions on Tatooine are very strange. * Why didn't he just buy a new icognito ship? I'm sure he could find somewhere that actually accepted Republican credits for this. * Why did he trust Watto when he said the larger dealers wouldn't have the same part? * Why did he take Jar Jar with him? There is no sensible in-universe reason.
What is the "feel of the world" from TPM that is good?
crshbndct ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:32:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
TPM wasnโt good but it was unmistakably Star Wars. TLJ was a Marvel movie.
onogur ยท 71 points ยท Posted at 15:57:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
why are cannonballs falling in space
TheCaffeinatedPanda ยท 48 points ยท Posted at 16:40:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That one is easy. The ships have internal artificial gravity, and objects leaving the artificial gravity are still going to have their momentum.
thesirenlady ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 00:08:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah i'm a little surprised this is getting such lambasting. The girl literally falls the length of the ship. Drop a bomb its gonna do the same thing.
miter01 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:38:59 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The shots would still travel in a straight line after leaving the gravity field.
TheCaffeinatedPanda ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:34:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They also have their momentum from being aboard the moving bomber. They aren't going to drop vertically, but at an angle.
miter01 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:35:01 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought the comments above talked about cannon shots during the chase scene, not the bombs.
stabbybit ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:01:26 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, but they need to demonstrate that in action. It would be easy for the bombs to be pushed out of the bay and maintain that inertia once free in space.
The real answer is "It's Star Wars, and the space fights have always been little more than WW2 dogfights ported into space opera."
TheCaffeinatedPanda ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:09:54 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Okay, but the ships have always had artificial gravity. They've been demonstrating that since the opening scenes of ANH.
I completely agree with you in principle, but this is one of the parts of Star Wars that doesn't break physics.
Gorm_the_Old ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:02:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The midichlorians create an artificial gravity field that pulls cannonballs downward. When they're not hard at work transmitting sound through a vacuum, of course.
ggalaxyy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:37:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
i'm done
Portmanteau_Pat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:52:04 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I love you, marry me.
braulio09 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:13:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And everyone can breath in space, too. Oh but when Leia "dies," there is now zero gravity, but it is cold and icy. But it wasn't cold in the other scenes...
funkym0nkey77 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:32:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My favourite is when Poe said "we won't make it through the night" THERE IS NO DAY OR NIGHT YOU'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF SPACE
LDKCP ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:32:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Space dudes still gotta keep a routine.
SthrnCrss ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:31:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought most space ships in fiction had their own day and night time.
vjones6 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:56:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Id imagine that time still exists in the star wars universe
Schneazel ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:58:50 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wasn't this just part of leias metaphor about not believing in the sun when you don't see it?
bedbugsex ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:05:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
asking the important questions.
[deleted] ยท 70 points ยท Posted at 16:09:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Whoever thought killing off Luke for absolutely no goddamn reason was a good idea needs to be fired.
CerberusDriver ยท 61 points ยท Posted at 18:13:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
At least have him die in a tasteful way that respects the character.
Maybe even save that event for the last movie.
Don't have him disappear because his "Force Mana" meter ran out and he didn't have any potions left.
photonlongsword ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:58:06 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Isn't it the opposite of that? I figured he simply leveled up and is now one with the force. Remember, that is a more powerful state of being than any living force user can wield.
CerberusDriver ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:02:13 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Then save that for the last movie.
We got to see Luke for a minute in TFA, barely get to catch up with him before he's offed.
photonlongsword ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:11:56 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm willing to bet we will be seeing Luke return as a force ghost in IX. He disappeared exactly like Obi-Wan.
AwesomeGuy847 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 23:58:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But, it wasnโt for no reason?
chachakhan ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:26:01 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In the grand scheme of things, his role in the redemption of Darth Vader and the destruction of the Empire and the person who originated 6 movies, he went out like a fuking wet fart.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:56:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He lost the will to live
TomTheJester ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:08:24 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh goooooooooooooood. Episode 3 flashback
_dunno_lol ยท 41 points ยท Posted at 16:48:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's all been confirmed that Disney and the writers have no clear vision or goals for this trilogy and this movie really showed that. Here are some food for thought:
Snoke was anti-climatically killed and we still don't know who he really was or what his purpose was.
Who or what is the real threat for the third movie now? Rey is now the Mary Sue to end all Mary Sue and we really have nothing to look forward to.
Apparently Leia is some sort of super saiyan Jedi now? She can fly through space. WTF is all that about.
Luke had a high moral standard and sees the good in Vader, AKA Space Hitler and has probably had billions killed by his hand and yet were suppose to believe that Luke all of a sudden sees no solution other than to try and kill his own nephew?
So apparently ghost Yoda can summon force lighting. Never mind the fact that Force Lighting is a DARK SIDE power and that a ghost can interact with the real world.
Yoda destroys the ancient Jedi text because apparently Rey knows it all now. Okay, so, what about future Jedi's? That was a dick move.
Luke, the Jedi Jesus, had to go through tough training with Yoda to gain the powers that he does but Rey automatically knows everything and can do anything.
These are just some of the more obvious problems and I can go on forever. I might get crucified for this but even though the movies were terrible, Atleast the prequel had a story to tell.
RobertElessar ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 18:28:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rey had the books on the falcon
jernau_morat_gurgeh ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:46:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't notice this at all when I was watching the movie. Either I dozed off for a bit, or it wasn't made clear enough for me.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:13:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's not how Force works.
Bad puns aside, seriously - there's nothing in canon that straight up blocks Jedi from using the power. They just didn't use it for ethical reasons. You don't need to be attuned with dark side to use it.
Most other points I more or less agree with, even as big Star Wars fan... or maybe because of it. Not totally a fan of how new trilogy is going.
PeterLeroy ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 18:27:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought it wasn't an amazing movie but still, most of what you're saying doesn't make any sense:
I understand how some people are pissed but again.. Fans created all theories, expected him to be either Pleiguis or someone else but It's Palpatine all over again. In the IT you don't care that much about him, he's just the bad guy's boss.
Kylo is the threat. Rey isn't a Mary Sue.. come on the first time she tries to learn the Force ways with Luke she fails to the dark side.. She's any hero type, not a freaking Marie Sue.
Can't argue on that one.. I feel like every Star Wars movie needs to do a cheesy scene. This one was cringy, I just wanted to forget it right after seeing it.. Make her survive the explosion thanks to a Force shield.. but not this crap.
Luke explains it. The thought of killing him lasted only a couple of seconds. I think he also said it was an awful thought but it was too late.
That's not a writer's mistake, the problem here is that there's never been any clear explanation on how force ghosts worked and what they could do.. Yoda was OK so it didn't annoyed me though I can understand how it bothered you.
Already answered everywhere, Rey has the books.
She's not OK and doesn't know everything.. She's just a good fighter and more importantly good at convincing people haha
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 15:21:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:52:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"It's time, for the Star Wars fandom, to end."
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:36:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Star Wars is basically "This Isn't What I Wanted!: The Series"
See: The Prequels, The Force Awakens.
Too many people expect too many different things from the series because people grew up with both the OT and the PT.
The solution? End the Skywalker Saga and stay away from it.
Climperoonie ยท 91 points ยท Posted at 12:47:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I am so disappointed. I have my issues with The Force Awakens as a Star Wars film (and there are many issues) but I've always maintained it's a damn good film in its own right.
This... This was a bad film as well as a bad Star Wars film. I can't believe they ruined my childhood hero so much. I'm not talking about his grumpiness really either. Luke would never, never consider killing his nephew in his sleep like that. Maybe only for a second, but never to the point of actually drawing his fucking lightsaber.
Fuck. I can't believe I hated it that much.
skuppo ยท 34 points ยท Posted at 15:51:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
RIGHT! The original trilogy is all about him refusing to see Vader as entirely dark, and then redeeming him, this is completely out of character.
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 21:32:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hamil did say he disagreed with pretty much Luke's entire direction for this movie.
slurpie10 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:18:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Even after sensing Ben heading towards the same fate that Anakin did?
I don't understand how drawing his saber is the end for you lol. Luke regretted it the instant the blade turned on.
Climperoonie ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 16:23:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was talking about this with someone else, we both came to the conclusion that if he sensed Ben's potential to be the next Vader, his response would've been "Well then, if that even happens I will save him like I saved Vader."
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:04:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Luke saved Vader by getting fried by Palpatine til Vader couldn't take it anymore. I wouldn't be keen for another go at that either.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:07:24 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Vader was way more far gone than Ben. Vader had years of killing people. Ben was an edgy teen with dark thoughts.
slurpie10 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:26:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What saved Vader was his love for his son.
K_oSTheKunt ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:03:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Luke swung his saber down onto Ben.
slurpie10 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:15:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe watch the movie.
K_oSTheKunt ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 22:18:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Luke swung his saber down, and Ben parried, while parrying Ben used the force to pull the building down on Luke.
Pyronaut44 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 01:57:49 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You're remembering Kylo's version of events, not the final version we get shown from Luke, where he ignites his saber but does not move it. Ben wakes and, believing he is about to be attacked, ignites his saber and goes at Luke.
Hopko682 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:52:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He said in the movie that it was a "temporary moment of weakness" Luke is impulsive, and has shown temptation to the dark side before. His intentions are always good but he's not a perfect man, that's what makes him such a great character.
TheChokenOne ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 13:50:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wow. Opinions I guess. For me, this is by far the best of the new movies. TFA and Rogue One did nothing for me in terms of breaking new ground and introducing new concepts, while this film was everything I wanted and more.
Climperoonie ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 15:30:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Out of group of five of us who saw it, two of us were thoroughly disappointed, one was ambivalent and two enjoyed it. I'm super jealous of everyone who enjoyed it to be honest. Very divisive film I guess.
Portmanteau_Pat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:47:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Might I ask what you disliked about Rogue One and what made The Last Jedi so enjoyable for you?
samsaBEAR ยท 145 points ยท Posted at 11:35:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I watched a double bill and seeing TFA before hand really made the disappointment worse. The forced humour in basically every other scene, the whole Casino part, Snoke being no real threat whatsoever, Finn being underused, Phasma being underused, the Porgs being horribly overused and so on.
The two main things I just hate where Leia's spacewalk and blowing up Snoke's ship. In the case of Leia, when we all know they need to tie up her story, why did they have her somehow be able to survive open space, Force her way back in and then survive the film? It's just so clumsy when they could have easily CGI'd her onto the Cruiser and sacrifice her like that.
Which leads me onto the next bit, why in all that is holy did Holdo not just make the jump to lightspeed as soon as the transports were clear? She knew she was going to die, why not attempt that exact thing? Nothing Finn/Rose did meant she could suddenly do it, it's just lazy writing to make fake tension in showing the transports being taken out one by one. The whole Rebel escape just felt like a bottle episode of a TV show, it was dragged out for way too long only for the ground assault at the end to feel rushed.
There were some fantastic scenes like Rey in the dark hole or every scene she had with Kylo, especially the fight at the end. The space battles look fantastic and while I didn't like how it was done, the shot of the First Order fleet being destroyed was gorgeous. But none of it left me looking forward to Episode 9, I'll see it because it's Star Wars but damn I feel sorry for JJ Abrams and the pressure he's had to both introduce a brand new trilogy and now end it after such a disappointing middle part.
nashist ยท 35 points ยท Posted at 12:24:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's so sad that I completely agree with you.
Declanhx ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 14:23:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It makes me wonder what the goal of the movie was.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:38:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Merchandising
Declanhx ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:54:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hey kids, Stop buying fake swords, Instead get a fucking bird.
jiggatron69 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:37:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To join EA on the Dark Side of the Force and complete the unholy union of completely fucking Star Wars to death
Riddy86 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:39:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone else felt a glimmer of hope that the character they were sent to get at the casino was Lando, I thought the pleasure yacht may have been the Lady Luck.
Portmanteau_Pat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:10:15 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yup. Fully expected to see Lando.
TheAlta ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:28:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The bit that really fucking confuses me is how suddenly rey isn't on the first order ship anymore, but she is somehow on the falcon, but is still late to the show when the entire first order army arrives on the planet? (an army which includes kylo ren and hux). Also how do they fit all of the 50+ survivors on the falcon??? I can't remember a worse movie I have seen in the past 5 years
runwithjames ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:56:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, there isn't 50+ survivors by the end, there's just a very small number of them left.
Asiriya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:10:35 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wish they'd had to have an awkward conversation about who gets left behind. What was the plan anyway, they didn't know the Falcon would be waiting.
Asiriya ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:10:05 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Warcraft. My urge to walk out wasn't quite as strong today...
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:26:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She only was able to do that jump because the ship was firing on the transports and had to change targets so she had time to turn around.
Glorfindel212 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:43:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What is REALLY interesting about Star Wars fans in general is exactly this : you want the same thing served again and again, but without your knowledge.
They literaly have to re-do the same thing, there is no winning possible.
Dark and menacing Snoke ? Meh, I've seen Sidious before, that's just a Sidious copy.
Snoke gets killed in a clever way with some form of ironic joke about power ? DUDE. HOW DARED THEY kill the bad guy before he could [enter fight 1 with good guy] and [die cut in a duel] ?? This is NOT Star Wars !
Like come on. There are valid gripes, the humor is among them, but being sad that you don't have the classical "fetch quest" -> destroy generator -> rebellion escapes/win, I mean, shit. It felt, for one, authentic.
Not every mission is a success. Sometimes it fails even worse.
Leia force pulls backs ?? RUINED. Literaly all of you were expecting her to die in such a cool death scene this movie.
Honnestly, half of the disapointment seems to stem from simply fan-fiction expectations shattered.
I could go on, and on.
Rose is useless / is a nobody ? Guys, she represents the fucking Resistance, she is the "little" guy that has everything blown up.
Yeah the chemistry with Finn is pretty bad, but that's because there are other things to be done to satisfy you on other levels. Add action, more Luke, etc.
Seeing that people get bored watching such a fucking CRAMED movie is insane. Like, do people even watch regular movies ? I don't know.
/rant.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:36:32 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
All of these things that Star Wars fans are complaining about that you mention here is down to execution.
1.Fans complained about how Snoke was a pretty useless character in TFA and agreed that he had to die but the execution was horrendous. His death was straight out of Empire Strikes Back and it was made worse by the fact he had no character development to backup the reason he was killed. 2. Did you even watch the movie? There was a 'classical fetch quest'. Finn's whole story arc was the fetch quest which ultimately had no place in the story because Holdo's plan all along was to let the Rebels escape and for her to kamikaze into the First Order. 3. Fans were expecting a good send-off for Leia because ya know Carrie Fisher isn't alive anymore. So for her to not only not die but also inexplicably save herself using the force that's she's never practiced throughout the movie timeline is gonna piss alot of people off. Anyone who isn't left scratching their heads as to why she was kept alive due to implications of not being able to be in Episode 9 is an idiot. 4. Rose is being really dragged through the mud due to the fact that you could replace with her with Poe and then that story arc doesn't feel hamfisted into the movie to introduce the love angle into the story and Poe and Finn would be two actors who actually have chemistry.
Glorfindel212 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:07:26 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's not what you are talking about though.
"the fans agreed he had to die", well good thing they gave their blessings...
Yeah remember Sidious ? He was just that evil guy. That's it.
Also, his death was way more clever and well put than Sidious. Also, KR didn't kill him to become good, but the opposite.
Yeah, and you forgot that the Fetch Quest is supposed to succeed ! But it didn't. At least admit you were expecting it to succeed.
You are saying it was useless (like many others) on the basis it didn't not succeed, but that's precisely the point : to change from the classical go get the thing and blow up the generator. They didn't blow up the generator.
Yeah people are stupid and forget that a character is not an actor. It's not because your actor died that your character HAS to die in this movie, if the movie was fully shot. There is no connection, at all.
The fan just felt entitled enough they could demand in their own heads that she died in the movie as well to pay "respects" on screen with a cool death.
It's literaly a movie, they can writer her off like in any movie. The movie can literaly start with her funeral.
Poe is not the same character with the same motivations.
CMC3BFF ยท 175 points ยท Posted at 11:12:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You know what this movie felt like? A spectacle and nothing more.
Everything looked amazing, just incredible, but there was just no substance whatsoever. The vision that held together the previous 6 films isn't there.
The script feels like they wrote two lines then folded the page over one and gave it to the next writer as they tried to come up with the next line without any previous context.
So much of that film was fluff, you could lint roll 70% of it off and only then would you start to see an improvement in story telling.
I'm actually really disappointed.
schmeily2 ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 12:00:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Stealing this to supplement my opinion for friends going to watch it. Summarises my feelings about it so well. So disappointed even if the film itself is enjoyable enough.
Fokken_Prawns_ ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:17:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You should read the Variety review, it is spot on, at least as to how I feel.
walkingtheriver ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:23:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Great point from the article, so true. Lots of dramatic moments (be it grand action or between characters) fell completely flat because they felt the need to put jokes everywhere
Asiriya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:06:12 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why do you feel it's Johnson? TFA had similar problems. Rogue One had jokes all the way through.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:27:16 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think the problem is having jokes. The problem is where to put them.
Rogue One knew how to be serious when it needed.
walkingtheriver ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:04:38 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I figure the director has the final say in what's shown on screen. Maybe that's not the case for a big movie like this though
Asiriya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:08:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's absolutely not the case, if Disney doesn't like what they're seeing they'll replace the director.
tlvrtm ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:36:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Haha holy crap, that definitely feels true.
walkingtheriver ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:09:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Great comment, I agree. While obviously connected to the other movies, this really felt a lot more like a stand-alone movie than the 8th in the series. It picked up from the second that TFA left off, but it didn't actually feel like a sequel
Asiriya ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:07:42 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I said the same thing after TFA. We're going to miss George before long. He wasn't perfect by any means, but he loved Star Wars and wasn't as cynical as Disney are showing themselves to be. For them, Star Wars is about making money. For George it was about telling a story.
I miss George.
schmeily2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:00:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Stealing this to supplement my opinion with friends going to watch it. Summarises my feelings about it so well. So disappointed even if the film itself is enjoyable enough.
feric89 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 15:59:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Those Loch Ness monster nipples will forever be burned in my memory.
monetized_account ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:42:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Luke angrily drinking milk is how I think of it.
splendick ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 00:01:45 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Can anyone explain why they didn't just go to the rebel planet closer to the start of the film? Surely they knew it was there. Hated this movie. Complete waste of time, genuinely could be the worst in the series
GiveMeACLoak ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:21:46 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Let's not forget TPM and AOTC exist, this movie was disappointing but we need to be reasonable here.
splendick ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:27:45 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I honestly found them more enjoyable than this movie. I couldn't wait for it to be over, I found it boring and felt like it lacked a solid plot. There were so many chances for TLJ to be interesting and it falls short every time
GiveMeACLoak ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 00:29:14 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well TPM had Darth Maul and Pod Racing but AOTC is utterly irredeemable. At least this film had the throne scene.
splendick ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:37:10 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I just feel so put off this trilogy now. TFL fell short for me too, I felt a bit cheated out of an original movie. This was an original story but a piss-poor original story. Not sure how IX will save it.
GiveMeACLoak ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:46:40 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I defended TFA because I saw it had potential, yeah I was basically a remake of A New Hope but I saw there was real potential for the expansion of the Star Wars universe. Wow do I feel like a fool. Snoke was pointless, Rey is still boring, Finn was wasted, Dameron had no development and Rose was shit.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 07:39:29 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When they first jumped they were just getting away. They didn't realise that they were being tracked until later. So they only had enough fuel for one jump left.
splendick ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:25:22 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm talking about the rebel planet they went to at the end of the movie via the small transport ships. They could have just gone there after leaping
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:41:51 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There plan wasn't to go there though, it was not especially well fortified and they didn't expect to have to go there as nobody could track through lightspeed
splendick ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:43:25 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No i dont think you're getting me. After they were tracked after leaping they would have known they were near that planet so why not go there? What other option did they have?
Dosca ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 13:10:01 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Revenge of the Sith is better
There, I said it
BorKon ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 17:27:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not mad about last jedi. I'm just so disappointed with it. Two years for nothing. It felt like they spent the whole movie showing everyone how wrong they are with all theories and offered instead apsolutly nothing. Who are reys parents, this was the question of last movie and this movie as well. But they are nobodies. OK fine but who is this mysterious snow? Also nobody, because he got fooled by the weakest bad guy in star wars movie history. Essentially everyone fooled Kyle with ease. The last part of the movie was about getting rid of old stuff for new. 2 years we were waiting for this? Essentially this movie made last movie and this movie useless for story progression.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:43:19 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
+1 for snow and kyle
[deleted] ยท 130 points ยท Posted at 11:26:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Dontshootimgay69 ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 16:15:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The guy sitting next to me was dressed in a very expensive looking stormtrooper suit, and he was on his phone after about an hour. He looked so bored.
AwesomeCauliflower68 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:19:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
First Star Wars you did not enjoy?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:23:07 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wow really? You actually think Episode 1 and 2 are better than this?
ColinZealSE ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:54:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Snoke does indeed rhyme with joke
[deleted] ยท 45 points ยท Posted at 21:17:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
fgdadfgfdgadf ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 21:58:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The audience ate that shit up, I actually thought it was funny for the first 5 seconds, then they dragged it on for 2 minutes to the point where you have to question if the commander is literally retarded.
iloveRescueRanger ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:04:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
One of my biggest gripes with this new trilogy is all the quipping and jokes they put in there, they all feel so forced. It feels like im watching a Marvel movie, not freaking Star Wars
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:17:21 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You don't remember all the stupid quips from the prequels?
TareXmd ยท 36 points ยท Posted at 13:41:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Just saw it. So basically everyone dies except the one actress who actually died, despite having like a hundred chances to kill her off gracefully. Maybe they're thinking the CGI is good enough now.
Some notes:
Snoke certainly needs to do a better job reading minds more specifically
I felt the final fight on that deserted planet was redundant. The movie could have found closure with Rey vanishing after the fight with Kylo Ren. BB-8 saving Finn and his gf, and the rebellion fleeing away without the hacker tipping off the First Order.
With Carrie gone (RIP), I feel Luke could have been a better replacement for Leia in the new movies, instead of having a CGI Leia.
I liked TFA more and am hopeful that JJA will bring it with the next episode
Rey's parents has so little thought to it, it feels primarily like a middle finger to fan theories more than anything else.
Edit: Also, Luke's fight was very badass till you find out he's just a ghost... That bothered me a bit.
Edit 2: I feel that Kylo was lying to Rey about her parents. He just wanted to sway her decision to join him, where she'd have more significance instead of being 'a nothing'. At least I hope he was lying. Otherwise it would be just extremely lazy writing.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:10:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Who are reys parents?
cwatz ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:39:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hint: When you know the answer, that question is still valid.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:07:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It is all of us
TareXmd ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:44:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why do you want to spoil the movie for yourself?
MiCK_GaSM ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:23:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because it's just entertainment?
TareXmd ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:33:25 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, if you spoil it then it's lost entertainment.
MiCK_GaSM ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 12:41:32 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Only if you're entertained by things you're ignorant to.
moderate-painting ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:33:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Star Wars: Return of the Prequels
methwow ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:02:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He read his mind perfectly but misjudged that he was the "enemy" and not Rey. It happens all the time with the Dark Side and is not something we have seen for the firs time.. He got cocky and died for it.
That fights purpose was obviously to allow them to get away and also have Luke do something "big" in the movie..
Who said Luke is not coming back? He can still be a force ghost in EP9 and kick everyone's ass
Why does she need to have some parent that everyone knows? For you it would either be a Kenobi or Skywalker and that is boring when there is a whole galaxy out there. There can be other people with the force who are not a Kenobi or Skywalker you know?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:30:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
TBH, her parents being a Skywalker, Kenobi, or Windu would have been a boring "predictable" cliche. I'm glad they didn't do it.
Nawpo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:57:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm astonished people that like TFA dislike TLJ. They're very fucking similar. For the record, I hated TFA for shitting on the OT trio and being littered with mystery boxes. TLJ just shits harder on Luke and is full of more cringey marvel humor.
How is TFA superior in any fucking way to the exact same material and approach in TLJ?
DrunkWino ยท 46 points ยท Posted at 18:01:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'd rather watch Attack of the Clones again.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:40:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
ROTS is a full watch, PM is a watch without Jar Jar, AOTC is a skip parts liberally for me
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 18:27:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
K_oSTheKunt ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:58:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'll bear jar jar.
Some_type_of_way ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:59:34 on December 17, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Unpopular opinion but the Clone Wars was my favorite
pihkaltih ยท 41 points ยท Posted at 21:14:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What happened to the Republic where did it go? Why is it Rebels vs Empire again? Why has every achievement of the OT been erased? Why are all the OT characters just bitter old failures who are being killed off one by one having achieved nothing? Why would Luke Skywalker the guy that refused to give into murdering Vader try to murder young Ren?
Oh right, because Disney are absolute lazy hacks that have no vision for Star Wars beyond "HEY LETS GIVE THOSE MOUTH BREATHING IDIOT MASSES THE SAME SHIT AGAIN AND PLAY ON NOSTALGIA, ATAT, DEATH STAR, CHICKEN WALKERS, HAN SOLO, CHEWIE, LIGHT SABERS, LUKE SKYWALKER, YODA, LIGHT SABERS THEY KNOW THOSE, SO COOL SO COOL".
Seriously was it really just that hard to continue the story from RotJ with Jedi Academy or something? Just mash magical school/harry potter style story with Star Wars? Oh look follow a bunch of new Padawan as they learn to become Jedi and uncover a mystery about the return of the Sith.
CallMeDutch ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:41:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The republic blew up in TFA by the starkiller base?
RiceandBeansandChees ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 22:12:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Only coruscant. Apparently we're supposed to believe that the rest of the Republic's forces are just chilling around, despite there being thousands of other systems out there with their own fleets and armies.
Writers have no fucking sense of scale. Some fanboi is gonna come and debate me on it. Who wants to be first?
greeb666 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:07:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well in the last one a planet ate a star. The new series started out pretty stupid I don't know why people are surprised.
RiceandBeansandChees ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:07:56 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh I didn't like the last one either, but I hate the new movie.
pihkaltih ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:10:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
5 planets out of thousands that make up the Republic, not even Corusaunt was lost.
CallMeDutch ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:32:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thousand? Well obviously I'm a bit unaware of the scope..
MiamLitchell ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 22:46:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
was...was the plot of the movie literally that if their ship goes a bit faster than the other (super mega death destroyer) ship they will be okay....Spaceballs had a better plot
SSF2_OW ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:51:07 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, that is exactly the plot. SPACE RACE! The film
opinionatedcaboose ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 12:13:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
why are cannonballs falling in space
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 13:34:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Bombers were like that in Starwars Battlefront 2 (2005), can't remember if there was a movie basis for it but it's been happening in-universe for a while.
Got2ReturnVideoTapes ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:58:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Out of everything Iโve read (and agreed with), this critique made me laugh the most.
Chrysoarrr ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:54:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The ships have their own gravity. And when the bombs fall and leave the ship they keep their momentum and proceed in the same direction.
EverLastingAss ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:41:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
it's entirely possible the apparatus that holds them just pushes them down to achieve the same effect as a bomb falling. Also it's a movie with laser swords and space wizards so there's that.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:29:24 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They wouldn't need to be on top of the destroyer then. They could point anywhere. There isn't up and down in space.
EverLastingAss ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:00:09 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did you miss the part where I said it's a movie with laser swords and space wizards? Realism should not be a concern with this movie.
Adamulos ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:04:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why are lasers ballistic
Svarec ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 17:32:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm honestly getting really tired with the stupid humour in Disney movies. This is a second Disney movie in a month, where out-of-place silly jokes heavily reduce my enjoyment of a movie. It wasn't as bad as Ragnarok, where several scenes got completely ruined by forced jokes but it was still bad. Granted, I still enjoyd both Ragnarok and TLJ but Disney seriously needs to ease up on the laughs because I'm worried about future rewatches. Filling the movie with cheap laughs might be an easy way to entartain general audiences in theater, but it doesn't work the second time.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:17:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought they had a good balance of jokes in TFA and they didn't take you out of the film, but they didn't get the balance right with TLJ
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:39:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Svarec ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:46:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree that the little amount of humour that's in BvS works, as opposed to Justice League. Also, failure of BvS has nothing to do with lack of humour and everything to do with shit storytelling and lame characters.
I really feel like forcing a cheap humour is an easy way to keep audiences in theaters entertained for 2 hours and make a movie look like it's good even though it's heavily flawed and won't work for repeated viewings. Doctor strange is a prime example of that. Loved it in theater, couldn't finish it at home on blu-ray. You can absolutely make a serious blockbuster where humour is either sporadic or non-existent, but it would require to make a perfectly flowing story and compelling characters that would completely draw you into the movie. TLJ may have the latter but lacks the former.
autinytim ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:14:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I left Ragnarok, it was so forced. Might have pushed through if I happened to feel better but I felt like crap and just wanted to go home and lay down. Then again may not have, it was so bad it might have made me feel that way
TheLast_Centurion ยท 52 points ยท Posted at 12:13:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly, I was pissed after seeing it.
It had some good ideas, but it was just not star wars.
This was and mediocre Marvel movie. This was more GotG than SW and that is not good at all.
Count clichรฉ things in it, constant jokes and forced love story and everything you've already seen and then imagine all the character you know to act differently and be someone else.
And this is it. It was not a Star Wars mobie but some mediocre fan movie.
It had a few memorable scenes but also many bad ones and if memorable, then in not a good way at all.
It was all just a filler joke between ep 7 and 9.
And Luke had closer to Pirates 5 Jack than to himself.
Ugh! Sweet sweet Lucas and prequels compared to this. He at least tried to bring something new.
And also this was partially Empire Strikes Back but reversed! Ugh..
This rhymes like Lucas always wanted I guess.
Even direction didnt feel anything speciap ay most times.
SandyBadlands ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:12:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
> This isn't Star Wars!
> This is just Empire Strikes Back but backwards!
Which is it? What makes a film "Star Wars"?
TheLast_Centurion ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 14:43:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Okay. Take half of the ESB, reverse it, put it through Marvel filter and jokes, put cliche dialogues and plot points in it, forget about previous movie and voila. You have this.
SandyBadlands ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:59:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And what makes a movie 'Star Wars'?
I would've thought cliche plot points would have done it since Star Wars is the entirety of the Hero's Journey played straight. Lifting half the plot from a previous SW film seems like a good way to make a Star Wars film, surely? Even if it is backwards, no?
Is it the "Marvel filter"? The irreverent, out of place comedy? Yeah, I hate that in my Star Wars. It was so good when Han had a serious conversation on the prison radio and didn't follow it up with a line worthy of Indiana Jones. Or when Yoda didn't get into a fight with R2 over a chocolate bar. I'm glad none of that happened in the original trilogy.
Quadriporticus ยท 85 points ยท Posted at 10:59:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought Luke was gonna be awesome in this movie. All about him in this movie was kinda underwhelming in my opinion.
[deleted] ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 13:57:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Quadriporticus ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:40:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That Rose Finn kiss at the end was so random.
fgdadfgfdgadf ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:48:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Let me save you by flying a spaceship into your face!
IrishFrontier ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:37:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I loved his little talk about Jedi believing the the Force belongs to them in a sense because of there ability to sense it more, and how that is incredible vanity and is reason enough to disband.
For the rarest of moments it felt like a possible George Lucas influenced SW sequel trilogy film.
Also Yoda giving generic life lessons felt patronising for Luke.
CoffeeCannon ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:42:32 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought Yoda was fantastic honestly. For so long Luke's been the 'legend' - infallible, wise, talented. And at his lowest and most deslerate point, Yoda gives him a mental slap in the face. "You're still like you were back then, you ARE fallible." He just laughs in Lukes face, gives him some perspective.
Portmanteau_Pat ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:57:34 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree. It was so great to after decades still see them fall into their respective teacher/pupil roles. I like to believe Yoda and Luke had many more conversations on the island.
Zaldrizes ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:18:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Their* ability
lanismycousin ยท 53 points ยท Posted at 11:15:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was a bit letdown by how he was used in this movie. Here's really matured as an actor and I would have loved him being in another film or two or three to more flesh out what was going on with him. No wonder he didn't like what was written for his character
Admirrrr ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 11:32:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I expect him to come back the next movie, having a Yoda-like role
yupyepyupyep ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 14:19:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe they'll give him dementia or find some other way to ruin his character even more.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:52:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
https://frinkiac.com/video/S08E10/Y3Am5O6feQZVN9vL67BDNm50vdU=.gif
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:38:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Luke will wear a MAGA hat and talk about deporting Chewie.
stabbybit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:34:14 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was thinking more Obi Wan (from the OT), but yeah, Luke will be back. Just not in physical form.
mollekake_reddit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:51:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly, i donโt Think star wars is right for him anymore. But i would love to see him in other stuff. Love the guy.
walkingtheriver ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:14:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Source? I wanna read/hear that!
lanismycousin ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:25:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
http://www.slashfilm.com/mark-hamill-star-wars-the-last-jedi-disagreement/
tlvrtm ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:44:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You didn't think the western showdown scene was "awesome"? Probably the best scene in the film for me. Mind you, I thought the movie was just "okay". But it had some standout scenes.
deadkestrel ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:47:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Having Ach-To as the source of much of the comic relief was frankly bizarre.
[deleted] ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 23:45:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This movie destroyed everything JJ had set up, while adding nothing new. How the fuck are they going to make the third movie, out of what? nothing interesting's left
Argh0naut ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:58:26 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree 100 %, I'm not even looking forward to the next star wars movie anymore.
TheCaramelMan ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 01:27:58 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wasn't a fan of this. Left the theatre feeling somewhat dissapointed. My complaints:
Rey's acting here was HORRENDOUS. Especially in the scenes where she tries to convince Luke to train her. Her acting was passable in TFA because she didn't have to do much emoting, but she had to do that here and you could tell she was struggling with it.
The Leia Mary Poppins scene was just wtf.
Also I wish we had a proper lightsaber-on-lightsaber battle. Rey & Kylo fighting those guards was pretty cool but still not a proper duel. The one with Kylo & Luke doesn't count because he was fighting a ghost.
The death of Luke & Snoke were very anticlimactic. And lastly, Yoda looked very strange. The puppetting of him looked very shoddy and cheap like something out of Sesame Street. Unlike in ESB, he looked more like a puppet rather than a character.
SSF2_OW ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:53:30 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'd have to watch it again but I actually thought Rey had improved slightly. At least, in this film there were somehow worse actors. So that's some credit to Ridley
[deleted] ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 02:00:06 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She was supposed to be like that. She was lying to herself and Luke why she was there. She wasn't meant to be convincing because she could not even convince herself.
A Skywalker, Skywalked.
Leia is just as strong in the Force as Luke is, but she simply isn't a jedi. The force saving her was fine
Luke finally found peace and became one with the force. He essentially did what Obi Wan Kenobi did. Snokes was anticlimactic but also completely unexpected. Which I did like. With how strong his force powers are it would feel weird for him to have a proper duel with Kylo or Rey. He wasn't a Sith but simply a dark side user. The underhanded tactic is not a bad way to do it
I think this is nostalgia talking because they used the same model as in the original trilogy
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:57:24 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Man I wish I could be as positive as you are about everything
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:26:19 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
he's smoking that disney green
RobertElessar ยท 55 points ยท Posted at 13:03:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My favourite part was finding out that Spielberg is a genius because there's no way Kathleen Kennedy had much to do with how great his movies are.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 21:20:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Shameless plug: "Spielberg" is a pretty cool documentary about the guy, recommended if ya like his stuff.
Portmanteau_Pat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:19:10 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I like him. Don't really get the Spielberg hate.
RobertElessar ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:17:54 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
will check out.
[deleted] ยท 33 points ยท Posted at 18:52:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I really didnt like how they handled luke towars the end. I mean, why did he suddenly change his mind and stuff.
Plus why use a force projection if he was gonna die either way? Wouldve been more epic if he was actually there
Zenikz ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 22:31:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I saw the force projection as a way he could make himself seem more fearsome (and even younger by the looks) to egg on Kylo to come out and fight him to delay the First Orders push. Especially as he didn't have his Saber anymore as Rey took it with her. Not to mention I would have been more wondering how the actually hell he got off the planet and there in time as well if he wasn't a projection.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 23:41:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The force projection was showing Kylo powers he may never possess with the dark side and by not letting him get the satisfaction of killing him right there he emphasised his point about how he will always be there in his head if he killed him. It was epic to see him peacefully slip away after saving the day, people complain about Disney not doing something different but then also complain when they do.
stabbybit ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:48:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I didn't have any real issue with him dying, but there's a real weird narrative disconnect between him projecting himself to fool Kylo Ren and "die" only then to "die" right afterwards.
I mean, if Luke is going to die, the Checkhov's gunned his X-Wing earlier in the film. Just show up and pull an Obi Wan Kenobi...
rifleman_ ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:46:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think the whole point was to test Kylo without giving him the privilege of killing him.
FlyingAce1015 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:56:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly? Force projection if equal to death is pointless and stupid.
ggalaxyy ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:59:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
the matrix move as well.... fuck that noise
thesirenlady ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:31:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If he really there he would have died immediately. Essentially the projection is what allowed him to distract Kylo
PlayboyScientist ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:25:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And why did he die anyway? Did the force projection trick take most of his vital energy?
ParryMeBaby ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:00:50 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Every second of force projection takes 10 mana and 1 health. He ran out unfortunately.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 12:33:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Linubidix ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:14:23 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What I mind about Snoke is that I have no idea who the fuck this guy is. Where did another Emperor Palpatine come from? How did he influence Kylo Ren.
It felt like it was made entirely independently from The Force Awakens.
JohnnyDrama68 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 04:13:35 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just some random thoughts after the premiere.
Fuck you Disney.
You can give us something amazing like Rogue One and then shit all over us with this nonsense.
Visually stunning.
Dumb jokes at every turn, hey it's starting to build some drama, time to put in a bad joke.
Luke was totally wasted. I love Mark Hamil and everything he did in these movies was wasted.
Kylo remains a good character. Adam Driver is earning his paycheck.
Magic flying Leia was just bad. A disservice to her character and to Carries Legacy.
I'm just sad at what this movie turned out to be. I will watch again probably a few times just to absorb everything. But it will be at home on bluray. No repeat theatrical viewings.
[deleted] ยท 48 points ยท Posted at 19:13:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I really, really didn't like this movie. And I love Rian Johnson.
The Kellie Marie Tran character was awful, she CANNOT act and the entire subplot at the casino and her arc with Finn was horrible.
Too much green screen, the dialogue has not been that bad since the PT.
They played around with the lore of the force too much and it fucking sucked. Genuinely.
PsychotherapeuticSun ยท 38 points ยท Posted at 16:46:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
94% on Rotten Tomatoes? Disney must have paid a lot for that score. Highly disappointed with this film.
SoulofThesteppe ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:29:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was surprised as well at 94%.... (don't spoil it for me please lol)
tggoulart ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 17:36:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Critics liked a film I disliked? Must be paid off!
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:44:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
tggoulart ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 17:50:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They actually don't... I don't know where you got that idea.
SaltHallonet ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 17:52:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Disney blocks newspapers that write things they dont like from early movie screenings, etc. They've done it for decades.
It's almost like you're a typical reddidiot!
tggoulart ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 17:53:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, they don't. Do you have any source on that? And that LA Times controversy doesn't have anything to do with the films so no bother bringing that up
[deleted] ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 18:07:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Blaming everything on some fucken scandal
Ironic calling someone else a redidiot.
SaltHallonet ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 18:56:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
One scandal? You think a megacorporation in pedowood only has one scandal?
We know ur a shill, time to switch accounts
[deleted] ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 19:08:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Always wondered when I'd finally run into a Russian bot.
Greetings comrade.
RedTeamReview ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 16:37:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I watched the Force Awakens before going into Last Jedi and they feel like they were made by two different people with opposing ideas on how to proceed with a Star Wars film. Almost like Rian Johnson hated J.J. Abrams and wanted to undo everything he did. Canto Bright was dumb and pointless, Leia's force space thing was SUPER cringe and Snoke was wasted. Yoda's cameo was unnecessary and we're once again given the ultimate movie troupe of: If character A just sat down and spoke to character B then this wouldn't have happened.
It really felt like Rian Johnson just wanted to do his own thing and was forced to work with something laid out for him that he didn't want. He wants his OWN tools and his OWN canvas on which to paint and I get that but at the same time this felt very Disney-ish.
[deleted] ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 19:17:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
To summarize everyone's reviews:
"Watching TLJ is like watching a version of the OT if the Empire had won and remade the OT and is now selling a hollow, pandering facsimile they don't understand to ironically make more money off its subjects and distract them while it expands its empire. The parallel between Disney and the Empire is strong."
GeneralShowzer ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 19:24:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I remember playing Jedi Outcast , and the empire was just reduced to a few remnants and cells isolated from each other.
It was interesting and that setting could easily work the good guys don't have to be rag tag underdogs, and the bad guys don't have to really control the entire galaxy it could have been on a smaller scale.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 21:13:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It could even be that the good guys are wrestling with potentially becoming the empire they fought against
RedofPaw ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:05:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No. Not everyone is saying that. I for one enjoyed it a great deal.
paultheschmoop ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 20:56:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Gotta say, glad that the "Just let Rian Johnson direct the next one too, I'm already certain TLJ is going to be the best Star Wars movie!" talk is dead.
Maybe we've learned our lesson to actually watch movies first before deciding they're masterpieces.
The_Inner_Light ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 09:24:02 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Damn, gotta admit it fooled me. Can't believe I'm saying this but I'm glad Abrams is doing the next installment.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 21:18:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
paultheschmoop ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 21:19:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Fans haven't seen it yet, lol. This is the first large discussion of the movie, and the reception has been mixed at best. Bad word of mouth will get around more starting tonight
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:02:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
paultheschmoop ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:09:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm an American, I just don't like blindly loving something that is very, very flawed
ethernetcord ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 01:46:53 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Oof..... just oof. That's all I have to say about this one. I have my michaeljacksonpopcorn.gif ready for the Official Discussion.
This movie basically renders Episodes 1-6 pointless!!
Just... wow
And reviews are so good! What is happening? Disney has some shady shit with reviewers confirmed?
pmmemoviestills ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:18:18 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, all 226 positive reviews have been paid off.
ethernetcord ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 02:20:07 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Didn't say paid off, like blacklisting people or sites or not giving access or some kind of shit has to be going on.
pmmemoviestills ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 02:22:02 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Major publication reviewers aren't youtubers looking for handouts.
ethernetcord ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 02:23:02 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
With Disey owning so much of Hollywood now... I mean
pmmemoviestills ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:59:27 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Owning a lot of the studio power yeah, that doesn't translate to the publication world.
JoelTLoUisBadass ยท 34 points ยท Posted at 14:43:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I like how they turned Luke into a coward that tries to murder someone in their sleep, good job Disney/Rian. /s
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:51:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why /s?
JoelTLoUisBadass ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 15:08:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because I was being sarcastic.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 15:25:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
dont see any sarcasm there
Cl4ptrap93 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:43:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Are you telling him what his own comment meant?
fightfire_withfire ยท 35 points ยท Posted at 14:54:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Unfortunately you can tell it's a Marvel property now. Jokes every 30 seconds and weak villains everywhere. I enjoyed it but it's not Star Wars anymore.
bedbugsex ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:40:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
At least they weren't fighting over a magical macguffin.
moderate-painting ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:29:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's how some Trekkies felt about the new Trek trilogy!
Dragshisballsz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:17:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
no, you can tell that marvel and star wars are disney properties.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:29:46 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Weak villain? Kylo actually amazed me in this one, the way he was able to coerce Rey into joining him and tricking Snoke like that. Hes a better villain than most Star wars antagonists so far.
Siglyr ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:39:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's not?? Aren't they 2 completely different studios? I know they're Disney but it doesn't mean 1 person has creative control over the whole thing...
C-doc ยท 74 points ยท Posted at 13:00:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly one of the worst Star Wars films Iโve seen
send_me_potato ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 16:08:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought it will take some time before Reddit starts hating this movie.
tggoulart ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:33:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I know right? Happened super quickly this time
el_throwaway_returns ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 19:17:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, jeez. It's almost as if making a bad film is going to turn people against it.
captionquirk ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 00:55:07 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And yet Reddit still likes Rogue One
stabbybit ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 02:48:17 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nice and edgy RedLetterBot.*
The reality is that Rogue One was a nostalgic and stiltily edited film, but it took some risks and managed to expand the mythology beyond Jedi protagonists and lightsabers.
Despite my reservations with Rogue One, it was at least joyful about including the things Star Wars fans wanted to see in a Star Wars movie (real Stormtroopers, real X-Wings, real TIE Fighters, etc) and then took the story out of Space Opera mode and inserted it into the war film genre. If you didn't at least find some enjoyment in Rogue One, I honestly feel bad for you, because it means you've lost the ability to recognize the fact that Star Wars' mythology is strong enough to tell more personal, ground-level stories. Rogue One is the only "good" Star Wars film since the 80s, lol.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:12:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rogue One has the best scene of the entire franchise.
captionquirk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:57:06 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If only that could make up for the first 2/3s of the movie
DavidOrWalter ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 20:31:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's almost like people didn't need to sit and think this time but had a dislike of it immediately.
BroVival ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 13:22:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I don't really like the movie. The CGI was fantastic, no question about that! Those ice foxes, the lightspeed crash and everything else.... incredible work. But just like in episode 7 i don't like what Star Wars became. I couldn't really feel any tension, because in every f#cking scene anyone makes a stupid joke. Besides that this is a Star Wars movie that would have been funny, but i think it destroys any tension. And when Leia uses the force to get back from space into the ship... She has the force, she is not a f#cking plane. I think it was not epic, it was just awkward/cringy. And I also don't like the recycling of so many things from the old movies... that salt planet with the bunker: It's the same situation like in episode 5 (evil guys attack, rebels have to defend themselves until they can get away..), the base looks exactly like on hoth so that they explicitly have to say that the floor is salt and NOT snow... I don't know if this is a problem from star wars or just a general problem in movies nowadays but i don't really see any innovative or new storys, which makes the movie just too predictable. A friend of mine was annoyed by me beacuse I bet with him what would happen next and I was right like 80% of the time. I could predict half of the movie just by knowing how movies like this are nowadays and I expect better from Star Wars than this.
What are your thought about those points I made? P.S: Sorry for any language mistakes I made, english is not my native language
Portmanteau_Pat ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:09:20 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I wholeheartedly agree on the similarities between Hoth and the salt planet. It was poorly executed and not even near as great as Hoth was. The line about it being salt felt out of place and was quite useless.
I think you are also right about movies being predictable nowadays. I get that the studios want to play it safe but this is ruining movies altogether in the long run. Besides this is SW they can go off the beaten path and have it still be successful.
[deleted] ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 16:26:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:38:51 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He scarified himself to save everyone at the end. How is that not brave?
DontPokeMe91 ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 21:18:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Also Ackbar being killed off in such a shitty way is a travesty.
montell088 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:20:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. The fans of this will say, "They can't all live forever!"
We know they can't. We just don't want our heroes to die in the dumbest ways imaginable like Han, Luke, Ackbar, and even Snoke.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 21:21:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
wolfgang187 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 21:24:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Any major character dying in a stupid way is gonna earn deserved hate.
Physicaque ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:01:30 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I disagree. Dying in a space battle is a standard death and fitting for the character. Dying offscreen due to food poisoning would a shitty way to die.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 23:07:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
What was the point of portraying Snoke as this hideous full of scars dude if you're not going to explain anything about him. Why not just some regular dude?
But hey... look at the bright side. At least wee know about Rose's traumatic childhood and what her necklace is made of. LUL
MrReesh ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 02:04:54 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm so glad the majority of you see the huge, huge issues with this film, as it seems no reviewer on the planet can find fault with it.
Just the fate of Luke Skywalker, the intergalactic legend who brought balance to the force, is enough to really marr the film in my eyes. His ghost died, and then he died. Basically force ghosts work like your avatar in The Matrix.
alfiejs ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 13:59:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ok, most important question. Did Chewbacca eat that little roasted guy or not?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:34:13 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, Chewie went vegan apparently.
natedoggcata ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:26:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone notice how bad the dubbing was in some scenes?
There was a scene where... uhh that purple haired woman was talking to Poe and shes facing away from the camera. You can see her mouth moving but she isnt saying anything.
Then you can see her mouth moving but you can tell the spoken words and clearly completely different from what she was actually saying.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:19:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I noticed that too. Luckily I only noticed it at that one spot.
slicshuter ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:57:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wait, so how long was Rey on that planet, but still came in time to save them at the end? I thought the rebels only had like 12 hours before they would be killed?
Yet all the time Kylo is doing shit he's still talking to Rey and Rey is flying around to different places. Did all this take place while the rebels were being chased?
RedofPaw ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:01:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just like in empire with lukes training and cloud City.
Nebarik ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 12:45:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Stupid question. I saw this in Korea so there were a lot of Korean subtitles everywhere.
When a character gets re introduced there was a little title card with their name and what they did in previous movies. Something star wars hasn't done before.
That was in the English version too right?
goofan ยท 99 points ยท Posted at 12:51:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nope, must be a korean thing. That sounds hilariously out of place.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:33:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I would love to see it. Like how everyone was introduced in Suicide Squad. Hahahahahahaha!
Nebarik ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 12:57:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Awesome. The rest of the movie felt really different to the other starwarses already, the title cards (in English and Korean) felt kind of in place in terms of the movie going for a different style.
moderate-painting ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:22:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Them title cards are quite common in Korean period dramas.
momobasha2 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:07:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Iโve just seen this in Korea as well, those title cards were very weird and felt completely out of place!
Toffepeer28 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:10:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sounds a lot like the Metal Gear Solid franchise
iloveRescueRanger ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:14:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
man i would love to see screenshots of those title cards with translations
Bad_Fashion ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:27:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Iโll probably go see it again over the weekend so Iโll try to get a sneaky snapshot for you. The cards had the English and the Korean there too. So it would say something like โSnoke: The Evil Supreme Leader of the First Order and Kylo Renโs master.โ And then have the Korean under it.
iloveRescueRanger ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:19:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
those title cards sound so strangely awesome. Would be really cool if you actually got some pictures of it! :D
Bad_Fashion ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:58:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh my god! Thank you for clearing that up! I also saw it in Korea and I was wondering the exact same thing! It was so jarring. I sat there thinking like, โThatโs Luke... I know who Luke is... why are you telling me who Luke is?โ
f1mxli ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:05:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Saw it in Mexico. The subtitles were out of place sometimes, but no character sheets
[deleted] ยท 34 points ยท Posted at 15:21:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So it seems this shit is worse than the previous 2 movies?
That sucks.
natedoggcata ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:38:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Definitely the weakest of the new movies so far.
Destructoranal ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 20:45:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Uh I liked Rogue One, and thought most people here agreed with me
ChappieBeGangsta ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:56:25 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think most people thought it was decent but it had big issues. Consensus seems to be around a 6-7 out of 10. Not bad.
stabbybit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:48:17 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I dunno, I really enjoyed Rogue One for how joyfully it took everything Star Wars fans wanted to see in a Star Wars movie (original X-Wings and TIE Fighters, original Stormtroopers, original Star Destroyers, etc) and then took a risk with it and thrust the Star Wars mythology into a "The Dirty Dozen" style war film. Rogue One has a lot of issues, mostly its stilted editing and extraneous Mouse-added scenes which seem to have obviously replaced story elements. But I found myself able to look past them and enjoy it pretty much start to finish, aside from that weird borgullet scene that gets half-forgotten afterwards (they'd have been better off explaining his frantic behavior in the cell as being drugged).
As far as worse than TFA? I dunno. I hated TFA's flat characters and plotline that just chugs along without any logical ties to previous scenes, and the endless convenience and contrivance required to get it from start to conclusion.
I don't think TLJ is a great movie by any means. I called it a 3/5 if you go to the movies for character and dialog and story, and I think that's fair. But I have very little emotional investment in Star Wars. It seems to be the hardcore fans who hate it the most. I just thought it felt like a bloated episode of a TV show that has too much humor in it which causes its tone to shift far too often and wrecks most of the dramatic tension.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:30:09 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No-go in and watch it yourself.
scredeye ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:50:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Make your own opinion. This was the strongest of the three Disney's star wars movies imo.
hoffd ยท 49 points ยท Posted at 10:43:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
People are annoyed about Leia's flying and stuff (don't get me wrong, it annoyed the fucked out of me aswell) but the scope and scale of the movie was miniscule, the smallest it's ever been in a star wars movie. I was expecting the whole escaping from the first order plot line to be a short escape, but alas it was pretty much the whole movie. When I realised it will be the main plot, I felt ripped off, thinking to myself, "Really? Is this it?" Very lazy if you asked me, and if the whole casino plan was taken out of the movie and they just escape creating a new plotline, it would have made the movie more enjoyable for me.
It didnt feel like star wars if it's over that short period of a day or two. (They literally count down how much fuel they have left). It also makes no sense, how does the resistance only have 6 hours of fuel left when we see Rey with Luke over the course of what seems like days? The plot lines are connected, there is no way that Rey being with Luke was before the whole "escaping" plotline. Overall however, not terrible, nor the greatest star wars movie. Will definitely see it again tho.
๐๏ธ unipleb ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 10:53:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think the scale and timeline is what bothered me as well; it seemed like the scope of a confined spin-off movie. Half way through the movie when the focus was on Finn I found myself feeling a bit disappointed that this was the story being told. But I did really enjoy the Ray/Ben story-line, and felt like this was interesting enough to save the whole movie and made it really enjoyable for me in the end.
DJ_B0B ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 12:04:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Day's are different lengths on different planets.
hoffd ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:14:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The sense of time the movie gave on the island made it feel like it was far longer than the escape scene.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:33:13 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nothing shows that the planet had a short day length.
Nawpo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:03:19 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Kylo is shown to be connected to Rey's plot that takes place over days, while the resistance plot is in hours which he is also a part of.
atomicbrett ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:55:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I totally agree with you on how monotonous the main escape plot was. Adding that to the cliche protegee scenes on Luke's island, I actually enjoyed the casino planet as a break
lanismycousin ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 11:11:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Luke has moved his x wing with his powers and Yoda has moved huge rocks with his. So not really that huge of a leap to think that a Jedi can't just force move themselves to fly. I had issues with the Leia flying thing because she really hasn't had any real jedi training so for her to do such an advanced thing seems a bit of a cheesy cheat.
SgtAngua ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 11:42:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Eh, she's in space, all she's doing is pulling on the ship
nashist ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 12:46:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This would make sense if ANY OTHER SPACE TECHNICALITY WAS RESPECTED THROUGHOUT THE MOVIE
MrInYourFACE ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:55:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What you are saying is that there is gravity? The scene right beforehamd where the bomba drop down established that this can't be the case...
Jay-Em ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:01:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The scope and scale was no smaller than ESB, where half the film is taken up with Han and Leia on the run from the Empire while Luke interacts with Yoda on Dagobah.
tlvrtm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:18:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I see what you mean but I've always found there's no point to complaining what's not in a movie. The possibilities are endless for that, after all. You should judge the movie for what's in there -- and what's in there is gorgeous and pretty damn messy.
gamecubemada3 ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 17:43:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The film I just watched bore no resemblance to the critics reviews I read. 8.2 average critic rating? I know it's all subjective but that is ridiculous. It was a mess, there were scene (Rose, Leia flying through space) that were as bad as anything from the prequels.
It makes we wonder if there isn't going to be some kind of scandal emerging soon regarding Disney and the critics. All their films seem to get glowing reviews, even the not so good ones (this, Beauty and the Beast, Civil War, Antman, AoU).
PurplePickel ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 12:42:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly I found it pretty underwhelming overall. I really enjoyed all the jedi stuff, but found all the 'Rebel' stuff boring for the most part.
Also the film felt very 'cut and paste', all the major scenes of the film felt like they had already been done in some shape or form in the OT.
I really liked the stuff between Rey and Kylo though, and definitely helped to salvage my final opinion of the film.
kingofstormandfire ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 11:24:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Just came out of the movie. I was disappointed. It's a good, solid movie, but I felt empty coming out of it. Definitely doesn't crack my Top 10 or my Top 20 either. A lot of my friends coming out of the theater were disappointed as well.
I need more time to think on it. Feels like a wasted opportunity to me. The movie was doing so many things that none of the plots were concluded or paid off in a satisfying way.
When the official discussion comes out I'll expand greatly on what I liked and disliked.
Edit: The interactions between Kylo Ren and Rey were excellent. This is a different Star Wars film with new ideas and concepts but the execution was rough.
ILiveInThePostOffice ยท 33 points ยท Posted at 17:05:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh boy, very very very disappointed with this. I think the writing was on the wall with that awful โthatโs fine Iโll holdโ banter with hux at the beginning. Too many attempts at light hearted humour, too many attempts at shoe horning in CGI animals that no one cares about, and just too predictable. Did you at any point genuinely feel like theyโd be beaten? Or that rose wouldnโt come down and save Finn at the end?
The whole rose/Finn subplot was incredibly dull. And then the corny speech about the light and then them 2 kissing and she passes out.
There were numerous moments in the cinema where the audience GROANED at the situations, such as Leia coming back and floating through space. I donโt know what I watched, by that was not a Star Wars film.
This film was perfectly summed up by someone walking out of the cinema, โwell that was fucking shiteโ
JangoAllTheWay ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:07:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I genuinely thought it was the end for Finn
ILiveInThePostOffice ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:12:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Iโd genuinely applaud them making that move, itโd be a shocker. But, for me, it was too obvious what was going to happen. Itโs a shame what happened to Finn this time, as he was one of my favourite parts of TFA.
zombiecommand ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:07:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Didnโt see it in Piccadilly by any chance? 14:40 showing?
stabbybit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:40:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, by that point, I assumed Luke was going to fly in on his X-Wing and blow it up. I got fooled by Checkhov's gun when Rey looks at it resting underwater, and by that point in the film, I assumed the worst and most obviously cheesy resolution was the way they'd go with it.
It might be the only part of the film that surprised me, haha.
eff50 ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 20:43:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So, the Prequels doesn't look all that bad now, eh?
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 00:22:38 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
ChappieBeGangsta ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:02:49 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well say what you want about the prequels, but I don't think anyone ever accused them of looking bad.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:56:31 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The CGI looks extremely rough. There was no reason why every clone needed to be CGI.
ChappieBeGangsta ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:57:55 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well you can't compare it to today's CGI. obviously
[deleted] ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 21:04:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
The Prequels were flawed but dared to be great and sometimes were. The Sequels...ehhh
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 00:12:54 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The prequels at least had reverence for the story and acknowledged what we wanted to see. The Last Jedi predicted our expectations and avoided them at every turn
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 01:55:18 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It doesn't make sense to avoid expectations just for the sake of it.
"You didn't expect Leia to fly through space like Superman, did you?" No, cause that's stupid.
And that applies to a lot of scenes.
monetized_account ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:40:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They never did. I love them.
loco1876 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 21:57:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
same rots is my fav of all the movies
slurpie10 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:02:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They are still terrible, mate.
stabbybit ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:51:15 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Let's not go that far. I'll take a tepid remix of The Empire Strikes Back with Space Penguin-Hamsters before escalating numbers of lightsabers, Jar Jar Binks and itchy sand that gets everywhere.
TLJ is a letdown. The prequels are godawful. I think you're forgetting just how bad the prequels are with the Jamaican fishbunny who steps in the poopie.
chubbyurma ยท 35 points ยท Posted at 23:23:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
This was.....not good.
So many pointless jokes. So much of the plot was predictable. Some extra foreshadowing here and there which wasnโt exactly subtle.
Half the shit didnโt even make sense, or at the very least was lazily explained.
It was just so Hollywood. Plus it felt like it went on for fucking ever. The whole Finn side mission was there purely for extra cinematics and the only way they could pointlessly get a kiss on screen. Dumb as fuck.
Not a fan.
K_oSTheKunt ยท 59 points ยท Posted at 14:28:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
possibly one of the worst films I have ever seen, and I cannot even begin to fathom how so many people are acting like it's the second coming of Jesus.
The movie is rubbish, whatever happens to the heroes, doesn't matter! There's a solution! Oh they're in trouble again? doesn't matter, there's a solution! And again? Doesn't matter! and not mention, most of the bullshit that happens to the main characters is just plot induced stupidity. After a year of conspiracy theories of who Snoke is, fans are greeted with an abrupt killing off of him... That's it. Luke Skywalker Executive Jedi master of planet express ends the movie with an epic fight against his archenemsis Kylo Ren... Which doesn't matter because it wasn't Luke anyway, he was actually on an island the whole time and then he dies(?). Carrie Fischer who so fortunately died last year, is saved by some bullshit
which I can only assume was the director thinking "let's give Leia the force."{EDIT 2: It has come to my attention that Leia has always had the force... regardless the way she saves herself is still bullshit.}
Yoda is back as well! and he looks like a fucking gremlin... The whole plot seems to be comprised of cheesy 1 liners and I think it was actually directed by M. Night Shamylan.
Overall: 3/10 It started off fine but quickly went down the toilet, hopefully they can replace Shamylan with a director who actually knows what they're doing.
EDIT: Forgot to add that there are quite a few scenes which essentially have a huge explosion kill everyone except the main characters in the middle of the room...
Also before anyone says "Your grammar sucks" idgaf.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:34:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
K_oSTheKunt ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:37:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I didnt know Leia had the force, but then again I saw V and VI when I was like 7(?). Mind telling me how exactly she uses it there?
Also for 1. read my edit, I'm too tired and angry to care about grammar.
MarionQ ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:20:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
have u seen the room tho?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:23:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So you haven't seen that many movies, have you?
Zaldrizes ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:01:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You seem entitled to think just because there were Snoke theories then there has to be a reason for him.
Maybe he was there for the reason we saw on screen. That's it.
AttackVektor ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 19:07:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It is just straight up terrible writing that half of the entire plot of this movie wouldnยดt have happened if this fucking idiot Holdo had just said "I have a plan". There was no logical reason for her to conceal that information and her turn around as a character was completely undeserved and weak.
Ship morale is at literally fucking 0. The crew is looking around thinking "well, weยดre fucked". Poe throws a tantrum on the bridge and everybody seems to echo his sentiments. A mutiny happens. Blaster fire is exchanged between allies... Then, suddenly "Lol, jk guys I actually had an escape plan the whole time". GEE YOU COULDN`T HAVE FUCKING LET US KNOW EARLIER YOU DUMB SHIT!?
Its made infinitely dumber by the fact that the instant Leia tells Poe about the plan he goes "hey thats a pretty good plan", much like any reasonable person would, and weยดre supposed to feel like heยดs a dumbass for going against the brass. The only dumbass in this situation is fucking Holdo, with one of the most inept displays of leadership I have ever witnessed.
sangemarcum ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 19:40:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Absolute mess. Snoke was such a menacing super villain and just as mysterious as Yoda was and they basically tossed him away with no backstory and way too early essentially making all that build up pointless.
I don't even know where to begin with all the plot holes... why didnt Admiral Holdo tell Poe her plans instead of talking down to him when he was still a resistance hero from the previous film? To create unnecessary tension? How on earth did Rey magically teleport back to the Falcon after the fight in the throne room (which was the only high point in the movie along side the Holdo kamikaze run). How did Finn drag rose all the way back to the base when they crashed feets away from the First Order? Why did Rose stop Finn from his kamikaze run when it could have stopped the First Order and rescued the Resistance?! She didn't know Luke Skywalker would Force hologram himself to save the day so she potentially doomed the whole resistance for their forced romance? Then again im not sure how they even managed to survive that far in when the blast that wrecked the ship they were captured on conveniently killed all other storm troopers except for Phasma for their underwhelming duel. Jesus i can keep going...
I just dont know what to say... i went in with high hopes and came out thoroughly disappointed and unsure of the future Episode 9. Rant over.
The_Inner_Light ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:21:05 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ships use fuel? WHAT?!
Milo_Hackenschmidt ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 22:36:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ok, anyone else getting tired of Disney's formula of 'Action/adventure movie with random comedy movie popping through?'
Every Marvel movie and now Star Wars has this same tone of comedy interupting scenes in which it doesn't belong. This movie really went hard on that, and it just doesn't feel like Star Wars. It feels so similar to the MCU.
Also, am I wrong to think Rose is a worse character than Jar Jar? She was intolerable.
SSF2_OW ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:53:50 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You didn't love random unimportant character who was tacked on for no reason and had no purpose, did nothing of interest then kissed Finn for some reason? Wow, I'm shocked
aslost3 ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 17:47:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think Disney has released the shills on the poll.
The_Inner_Light ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:15:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No fucking way is this movie a 93%. Disney bought those reviews.
Minscota ยท 127 points ยท Posted at 12:08:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
This is my least favorite of the 8 films. They are turning starwars into marvel movies and the shoe horned in comedy is cringe.
There was almost no ground gained in the story at all. Say what you will about lucas, but he could at progress a story along.
Rose Is worse than JarJar, Leia becoming the force superman cringe, the fight scenes were great at times and disjointed in others.
Im baffled by this movie.
*Edit I just want to say this last thing. I knew disney would ruin starwars. They cant help themselves. I could start to see the turn around Rogue one. Disney see's starwars as a cash cow and nothing else.
[deleted] ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 15:02:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And all the blind fanboys fail to realise this, because of disneys murder of star wars i keep the fact that im a star wars fan to myself.
leftysarepeople2 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:50:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What was bad about Rogue? They killed off an entire cast, I thought it was pretty un-Disney like
tlvrtm ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 16:40:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How are so many reviews saying this is "best since Empire Strikes Back"? Did they not see The Force Awakens, Rogue One or hell, even Revenge of the Sith? Yeah I'd rate all of those above this mess.
samspopguy ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 04:34:56 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
please don't ever compare any of the prequels to anything worth watching.
Nachti ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:44:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Okay, calm down there, mate. Rose is useless and all, but go watch Phantom Menace again.
Minscota ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 13:49:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I did over the last week to get ready for TLJ. The older I get the less he bothers me and honestly I think he was intended to be more in the movies until people bitched about him. Im a firm believer Jar jar was actually intended to be a sith.
soalone34 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:15:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You liked the prequels..?
Minscota ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 20:21:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They werent great, but they made sense. More than I can say for TLJ.
Rahdahdah ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 19:25:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Everybody Dies: The Movie
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 19:36:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
it really is like The Walking Dead. It's like they think they're being hip by killing off its characters but it seems like maybe they want to just punish us instead and then daring us to try and not watch the next movie.
SaltHallonet ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 19:58:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Atleast TWD kills of characters on the that should die, whereas Leia and Finn is alive while Ackbar, Luke and Snoke is gone
DNamor ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:11:04 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Snoke dying is cool, it's a massive shift in expectations.
Luke dying randomly without achieving anything just feels like them aggressively forcing the old cast out.
Gorm_the_Old ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:51:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's the issue, you go into the movie knowing full well that certain characters have plot armor a mile thick because the actors are on multi-movie contracts, so when everyone else dies it just doesn't have as much of an impact because you knew you weren't going to see most of them again anyway.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:40:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
good point!
MEsiex ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 23:27:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The worst sw movie to date, I count prequels for that. The whole movie was so pointless, they reuse every single thing they can. So much forced comedy, that shouldn't take place. Luke's death is on par with padme's. Romance pushed just for the sake of it. A huge chunk of the "story" might have been just cut out if there was some real communication between characters.
TomTheJester ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:06:10 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I would break up your relationship with Star Wars if it's "the worst movie to date". Feel that cringe? That's what most of the humour in the film felt like everyone.
MEsiex ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 09:14:20 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
At first I didn't get your joke, but yeah that's exactly what the humour was like in the movie
caodalt ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 11:56:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So is Phasma really dead or is she going to show up again, this time with a cyborg body like Vader?
KingCantona777 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:20:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
At this point Disney could have her walk back into a scene holding hands with Han and people would eat it up
GusSawchuk ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:21:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They should just keep killing her and bringing her back in every movie, like Kenny in South Park.
SilentBobVG ยท 197 points ยท Posted at 11:06:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
First off, the forced humour in this movie is almost cringe inducing at times. There was a few times I thought I was watching a robot chicken parody of star wars again, rather than an actual star wars movie.
I've never been so fucking disappointed at a villain as I was in what Snoke turned out to be. Building him up to be this incredibly powerful entity, only for him to be generic villain of the day #643. His death scene was absolutely retarded too, and I refuse to believe he couldn't see or sense what Kylo was actually doing. I digress, at least it led to one of the coolest scenes in the movie
The Kylo/Rey/Luke plot was legitimately great, I enjoyed their interactions and thought the writing was done well for that plot.
However, literally everything else in the movie fell flat. The main plot about the resistance was garbage, and felt like they were just trying force Carrie Fisher in to a main leading role, that she really didn't need to have.
Finns subplot was just awful, Rose has to be one of the worst characters to come out of a star wars movie since jar jar binks. She had literally no reason to exist and had no purpose in the movie, other than to "teach" finn some awful generic life lessons, and stupidly save his life
Overall, it's a fine movie, but that's it. I'm less interested to see how the next movie plays out compared to how I felt at the end of force awakens where I was dying to know what came next.
Fredvdp ยท 49 points ยท Posted at 11:52:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The smoothing iron gag is definitely something that could have come out of Robot Chicken.
[deleted] ยท 49 points ยท Posted at 12:02:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That was gold though
ChappieBeGangsta ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:08:01 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
no, it was iron. he just said so.
Fnhatic ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:45:51 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was like 'what the fuck this thing looks like a fucking iron'. 'Oh'.
DoubleSteve ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:02:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That got a huge laugh out of the female population of my theater.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:08:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Dude that was the highlight of the film
Fredvdp ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:51:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't say I didn't like it. I thought the Robot Chicken Star Wars specials were hilarious. :)
leftysarepeople2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:35:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What gag?
Fredvdp ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:38:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Where you get the impression you're watching the bottom of a spaceship as it's landing, but it turns out it's just a smoothing iron.
leftysarepeople2 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:39:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh yeah that was the one point I actually laughed in the movie. Just wasnโt reading it right
peeorpoo ยท 53 points ยท Posted at 11:33:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Seconded. Rose is so damn useless that she feels like another Evangeline lily. The romantic subplot is just so cringe inducing. I really donโt get why so many Hollywood movies like to shoehorn a romantic subplot in.
Fredvdp ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 11:53:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Her heroic sacrifice was especially dumb, because it left Finn defenseless on the enemy's side of the battle.
nashist ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 12:32:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yet somehow he made it back, dragging her the whole time, going through a probably 20+miles field which at the time was being bombarded as fuck. Oh man...
natedoggcata ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:00:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I couldnt help but laugh at that scene. They are probably miles away from the resistance base and then maybe 2 minutes after the crash he is just dragging her lifeless body though the base going "MEDIC, WE NEED A MEDIC OVER HERE".
Good fucking lord
Fredvdp ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 12:37:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Plinkett review will be amazing.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:19:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In the theatre I almost yelled out "how the hell did he make it back?"
SilentBobVG ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 11:42:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, she had no place in the movie really, she almost feels like a Rogue One character or something. Didn't really mesh well with a main episode imo.
I 100% on the romance thing too, yet another thing about this movie that felt forced and unnecessary
nommas ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:31:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yup, she irritated me too. I guess the weird awkward dialogue was a design choice because she's a weird awkward person? When she was introduced and was just crying with the necklace, I thought "wow that's a cool way to humanize the resistance and show the effects on background characters" but they had to ruin it by making her a main character.
She had a bunch of quirky one liners "need a ride!" and overall just felt forced. Robbing Finn of a badass sacrifice moment just so she could kiss him also felt a little forced.
"We save the things we love!" so why not let Finn save the resistance that he loves?
Sisiwakanamaru ยท 96 points ยท Posted at 11:27:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wow, that is kinda too much.
SilentBobVG ยท 76 points ยท Posted at 11:30:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A tad hyperbolic, but I really didn't enjoy any of her scenes or the writing for her character at all
NiceColdPint ยท 55 points ยท Posted at 12:17:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rose and Finn have literally known each other for about a day, yet she at least already loves him.
scotch_toker ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:12:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I felt that Finn was like a bit like a celebrity to Rose, she knew who he was and got all excited when she met him. I could definitely see that playing a part in how we fell in love with him so quickly, she had heard stories about him saving the day.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:35:42 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When she first met him all I got were knives and Scott pilgrim vibes
SandyBadlands ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 13:48:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rose knew about Finn for a lot longer. To her, he is a Resistance hero. Finn has only known Rose for less than a day which is why he was visibly taken aback when she kissed him.
Bad_Fashion ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:27:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I mean, not really though. The movie starts up almost exactly where TFA leaves off. So the adventure on Starkiller Base happened what, a week earlier? How much time took place between Starkiller Base and Rey going to find Luke? From Finnโs perspective no time passed at all. He passes out on Starkiller and wakes up on the ship at the start of TLJ.
So Rose hasnโt known about him that long, maybe enough so develop some hero worship feelings but I doubt it. Especially since any hero worship she had was destroyed when she saw him trying to leave the ship anyway.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 07:35:01 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The timeline was all kinds of messed up. Rey and Luke didnโt seem to match at all what was going on everywhere else. Was the end of force awakens a flash forward and some of TLJ takes place before that moment? Going by the time Finn and rose had to take out the shield Rey spent less than a day with Luke. It felt like it all took place immediately after the last one and then wrapped up in 24 hours
Bad_Fashion ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:58:52 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yea, it really does feel messed up, you're absolutely right. Looking back on it the whole adventure does take place pretty much just over the course of a day. Start with the bombing run, then the hyperspace jump, then they have 16 hours of fuel (correct me if I'm wrong), then they escape to the Crait, battle, fade to black. Couldn't have been more then about a day. Which is strange considering Rey slept several times during that (although that can easily be explained by the days not being as long on that planet but still).
My real problem with the movie was that I didn't really want to watch what was going on on-screen at any given time due to the pacing. What I mean is that the Finn-Poe-Rose-Resistance plotline was this ticking clock, so I really wanted to see it resolved and everything seemed very urgent. So whenever the Luke-Kylo-Rey stuff came on, I wanted to see the Resistance because they are all about to die. On the other hand, the Luke-Kylo-Rey stuff was all much more interesting and had all the real main characters. So whenever they swapped back to the resistance I kept thinking, "Wait no! Now I want to see the Luke stuff because that mystery is getting good now!"
Point is, I every time they jump to the other plot I found myself wanting to watch the other plot and not what was actually happening.
heyclassyy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:36:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Feels like they could have let the relationship build a little bit slower. Wouldn't the kiss have a lot more impact if you had to wait for the next movie to see it?
teasizzle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:14:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's no different to super fans of boybands being 'in love' with the members
gcunit ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:08:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If it had been the other way round, the internet would be aghast at an unconsensual kiss forced upon a vulnerable woman, but as this film is pushing the feminism agenda it's ok for Rose to Kiss Finn...
Asiriya ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:55:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh shut up.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:12:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
scrubbed
Sisiwakanamaru ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 11:31:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I understands where you're coming from. I like the Idea how they paired Finn and Rose together but I wished the executions were better.
SilentBobVG ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 11:34:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It felt like she literally existed just so Finn had someone to talk to on his journey because they couldn't have him go off on his own
Rek07 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:34:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Iโm not sure why they made the new trio all have separate storylines. Finn and Ray are great together, Finn and Poe are great together, but instead they put Finn with someone new.
luckystar2591 ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 11:51:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Crowbarred in Asian character so Disney can sell to Asian markets when it dawns on them they don't have any Asian actors in the cast...
T0yN0k ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 12:36:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They're in for a rude awakening if they are seriously trying to sell to the Asian market with Finn and Rose as a couple.
RobotWantsKitty ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:08:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And that the biggest Asian market, China, won't be appreciative of a Vietnamese actor in a major role.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:17:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Interracial couple?
Skyhooks ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 22:50:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not just interracial, mainland Chinese don't love black people. They are aware of this though, compare the force awakens posters.
Prathik ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:18:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why is she crow barred because shes Asian?
luckystar2591 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:55:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Star Wars does well in the Asian markets, in particular the toy industry....however this is a bit of a problem when they haven't cast any Asian actors in leadroles.
This is why it's obvious theyve written a role last minute to boost sales in Japan/China.
If they'd had made an Asian casting in one of the rebellion roles back in TFA Rose probably wouldn't have happened.
wicket42 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:08:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Her sister was the more interesting character In this film....
schleibenschliben2 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:23:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
At least Jar-Jar wasn't a diversity hire.
DrunkWino ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:56:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And he had a better excuse for existing.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:15:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with op, it's been almost 20 years since I wanted to see a character die so badly. Finally I thought she was a goner, cringe scene but at least she's dead! Nope she fucking survived, again for the 5th time.
I propose we honour r/fuckolly with r/fuckrose
atomicbrett ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 12:42:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh god Rose saving Finn from a heroic death and their possible romance is awful imo. All that tension with Rey and Finn to just be friends?
SilentBobVG ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:11:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Still mad at that. I thought that was a fantastic scene and would've been a great send off for him. But noooooope
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:22:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I feel stupid for thinking they'd let him die, he survived time and time again throughout the film, once he's surrounded by troopers and chrome lady and he still make it out.
tlvrtm ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:33:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Painful how true that is. TFA did a great job introducing some new characters, halfway through this I didn't care that much anymore. Shame, Rian's a great director and they've got fantastic acting talent. Story was a mess.
Malarazz ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:51:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Snoke's death scene was fantastic and very very fitting.
What's the alternative you were hoping for? After Rey gets her ass handed to her she just trains some more in episode 9 and is able to beat him?
NoxZ ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:12:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The irony IMO is people calling Snoke "generic villain #number" for being killed off when if he had turned out to be the Sidious-esque Big Bad for Episode 9 he would have been just as generic. Killing him off was the best move for the film and the trilogy. He was pointless as anything more than a poorly-explained evil force that had very little purpose.
Also the complaints about him "not seeing" Ren killing him just don't make sense to me. He did see him (hence the whole speech), but his hubris made him short-sighted in thinking Ren was 100% with him the whole time. That was actually clever to me.
JurassicBasset ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 11:35:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought most of the humour was well delivered actually. Apart from the put a shirt on joke. I agree about Finnโs subplot though.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:20:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The hugs joke was bad and went on for too long, then all the damn penguins, the scene with chewie was funny but all the others... And how come all the animals had cute eyes? Damn horses with cute eyes...
erinu63 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:22:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Honest question, do you prefer humour from prequels (things like "so uncivilized", elevator scene from Grievous ship etc.)?
laman8096 ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 12:57:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, gotta say I prefer it to this Marvel-lite
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:24:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Luke throwing Anakin's lightsaber over his shoulder was so... Disney, I hated it, felt like unneeded comedy in what could've been a good way to show his distaste for the jedi.
Imagine if Luke destroyed the saber for example.
laman8096 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:56:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Eh, as much as I disliked some of the comedic elements, I thought the lightsaber over the shoulder played it moderately straight.
SilentBobVG ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:58:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Definitely, yes. Although they were corny and not written very well, it fit more in line with star wars and didn't complete take me out of the movie like the jokes in last jedi
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:13:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why is that every action movie tries to be a comedy these days? It's one of the big reasons why I've never really rated all of the new MCU movies that highly. Alternatively, the dedication to action is why movies like John Wick and Mad Max: Fury Road are praised so highly.
Zunthe ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:46:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He was seeing what Kylo was planning to do but just got the target wrong. He thought Kylo saw Rey as the opponent and not himself. At least that's how I saw it.
The film had some great parts but most of it was crap. Really bad directing ruined the film. I think the plot moved along alright but it was almost unbearable to watch most of the film. Horrible comedy, cring worthy scenes and cliche fest. Bad handling of loads of characters and shit new characters.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:42:21 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He could see it because kylo was doing it twice, every movement made was mimicked with his own saber so if snoke was sensing a saber turn he was also seeing one turn so it was masked.
Zunthe ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:12:49 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes but he could feel Kylo's anger as well, he thought Kylo would direct it at Rey because he was smug and thought he was above it, he became cocky and didn't see he was the target.
wingsfan24 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:17:47 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He did, but Kylo was so experienced with "mind reading" that he concealed his actual intentions perfectly. To paraphrase, Snoke said he could sense Kylo's unwavering conviction, and that he was turning the lightsaber towards its target - all of which was true.
elgosu ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:41:50 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
For Snoke, he was reading Kylo's intentions to strike down his "true enemy". He just never thought that would be him. The arrogance leading to his death is fitting. And he did earn it by humiliating Kylo earlier.
SkidMcmarxxxx ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:20:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Snoke's death is the best thing in the movie.
It's really not important who he is and where he comes from. I don't want to go through all that gain.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:39:59 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But it is. His apparent age means he had to have been somewhere in the timeline of films we have already seen when other people were supposedly in power and the only ones. There is no explanation given as to how a seemingly defeated empire are suddenly more powerful than ever. Every military group be it empire, order, republic or rebel or whatever we are calling them is run by whoever can act tough enough. There is no legitimate chain of command itโs like animals fighting to be the alpha.
rhm2084 ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 12:04:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was a good marvel movie
[deleted] ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 16:47:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Paid shills being deployed.
alleavel ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 14:09:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
ITT: Everyone hated it
Ratachu ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:18:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not really, they are more vocal about it I think. If you see revies by critics and Youtubers, they like it.
Minscota ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 14:19:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You mean people who were given special treatment and money to write favorable reviews?
Its well known disney punishes people and outlets for bad reviews.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:11:34 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
VERY cool.
CallMeDutch ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:43:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean..I liked it...much better than TFA.
Ratachu ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:23:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
HAHahahaa. Do you know that they do the same with every Blockbuster? DCU including, and they have bad reviews. Donโt feed yourself with conspiracies.
Minscota ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:28:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Warner borthers isnt known for blacklisting people for bad reviews. Disney very much is and has been doing it for 20+ years.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/business/disney-la-times.html
Ratachu ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:39:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
You should read the article. Disney didnโt blacklist movie critic for bad reviews, they blacklist the outlet for investigating Disney political and business dealings on Anaheim. A shitty move by Disney but it hasnโt nothing to do with reviews.
Edit: Downvoted for saying the truth.
Minscota ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:42:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I did and it shows a history of disney going after people for unfavorable coverage. To pretend this is just a new practice is crazy.
Ratachu ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:47:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Do you really believe that Disney have bought 190+ critics? From all over the world? Iโm from Chile and even my local film critic liked the movie. Movies are subjective, but when 95% critics (people who watch more movies than the average joe many who studied film at University) disagree with you, I guess you donโt have a good taste on movies.
Minscota ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:50:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They are one of the largest multi national corporations in the world and valued at over a 100 billion dollars. Its not a stretch.
Ratachu ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:53:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What about the rotten Disney films? Cars 2? Tomorrowland? The new Pirates of the Caribbean? Did Disney failed to pay the critics here? Also Warner is a billion dollar corporation. They even own Rotten Tomates, but their DC films are still panned.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:44:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
even the youtubers seem temperate.
RobertElessar ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:43:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
youtubers by their very nature are stupid
Ratachu ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:44:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why? Because they liked the Star Wars movie you hated? What a nice argument dude. You convinced me
SaltHallonet ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:24:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He didnt even say that argument, you did through paraphrasing ol, and then you argue against it
Literally so dumb you argue with yourself
Ratachu ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:41:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was sarcastic you fucking moron. You and the dude that says that all youtubers are dumb (including Kermode or the what the flick guys) are the idiots here. I guess teenagers Star Wars fans are fucking intelectual geniuses.
Menso ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:59:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How many Chile-bucks is Disney paying you to shill over there, friend?
Ratachu ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:01:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nothing, Iโm a middle class college student that loves cinema. And i guess i like fighting on the internet too.
CJ_Jones ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:34:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It ain't gonna win Oscars but neither would Independence Day but I enjoyed them and would recommend them.
kinkysnowman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:56:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I loved it, sure some parts are bad and some humor is forced but the good parts are amazing.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 16:23:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Minscota ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:31:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You can do something different and have it be good.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:46:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
unintentional Obi-Wan quote lol
[deleted] ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 23:09:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Star Wars of my childhood is gone, replaced by a shallow blockbuster more concerned with pandering to the masses.
Sierra419 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:27:55 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
100% agree. All established canon was just tossed out the window. Don't forget about the shoehorned humor
ChappieBeGangsta ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 00:52:58 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hopefully a new remastered OT will be released now and you can get your childhood back
tomtompics ยท 38 points ยท Posted at 15:47:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Amazing parts in the movie
Bad part
Very bad part
OVERALL I still enjoyed the movie despite all its flaws. I don't think the movie is bad nor good. I think it could have been edited differently. Cut Rose and the casino's subplot for God's sake.
[deleted] ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 16:07:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I dislike Luke's arc in the movie. Why would Luke Skywalker be afraid of Ben's power and dark side? This is the guy who confronted 2 of the most powerful Sith in the galaxy, Darth Vader and Darth Sidious without completing his Jedi training. This is the guy who turned Darth Vader into Anakin Skywalker. So yea, why would he killed his OWN NEPHEW simply because he was afraid? That makes no sense at all.
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 17:29:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He faced Darth Vader and only bested him by embracing his anger.
He faced Sidious and got beaten like a redheaded step child until Vader went all redemption arc.
It's not unreasonable a guy with that track record was scared.
tomtompics ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:17:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
From what I see Ben is really strong with the force, more than Luke (he was instantly defeated once Ben woke up). Luke must have thought that if this raw power was turned to the dark side he would have not been able to contain it. On top of that, Snoke already had turned Ben to the dark side (still a mystery on how Snoke did that). So in a moment of weakness, he considered killing him, BUT he didn't go through with it (from what he says). I love it, this is a great tragedy where doubt and weakness actually created Kylo Ren.
mrandocalrissian ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:28:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She seems to exist purely to give Finn a nemesis but so far this has been so poorly realised. My only hope is that she fell on a pile of syringes full of midichlorians and becomes some sort of burnt, badass new apprentice to Kylo (since I guess he needs an apprentice now and Rey isn't interested). ...bit if she appears in the next one, I'm sure it'll be more of the same, only her chrome dome is broken.
rebb1t ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 14:54:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And I thought The Phantom Menace was bad, this was a train wreck from start to finish.
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 16:18:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:14:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I rewatched it recently while completely blocking out Jar Jar and it was pretty enjoyable actually
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:35:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The movie is actually awesome until the get to Naboo. Viewers were seeing real Jedi for the first time, and it was great.
_AllahGold_ ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:50:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wow no.
RiskyChocolateBiccy ยท 81 points ยท Posted at 11:01:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Feel extremely conflicted about this one. There was so much I loved about it. And so much I'm not so sure how I feel. My main issue with the film comes from how it essentially wipes the slate clean from TFA. I'm not sure I like that very much.
Snokes death was handled extremely well I thought, and I like that he was essentially just a plot device for Kylo to fall completely rather than Emporer 2.0. What I didn't like is how we didn't get anymore context about him. He's just Snoke, and that's all we know, and now he's dead. Also, I'm not sure why all the hate for Leia's force scene, it was a real crowd pleaser in my screening.
It is by far the most character driven Star Wars, for better or for worse, and I think I will have to see it at least a couple more times to fully formulate an opinion about it, but for the moment I'm still uncertain about it's place in the franchise.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:12:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was character driven, sure, but there were barely any meaningful interaction between characters which made it fall flat imo.
nashist ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 12:25:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is very true. The whole third was AMAZING because of this. The rest... Well you said it.
Jay-Em ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:44:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I feel the same way as you; there were aspects I loved but other bits that I'm not sure what to think about.
Snoke's death was a great, unexpected subversion, but I can't believe we still know nothing about him.
Minscota ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 12:32:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The prequels were more character driven than this. They were also better movies that actually progressed the main story and that really says something because the prequels arent great.
I actually miss lucas after this movie.
RiskyChocolateBiccy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:33:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Can you please explain your reasoning?
Minscota ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 12:44:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They spent 3 movies building vader, building obi wan, building Queen Amidala, building Palpatine and the Jedi in general. Showing motivations, change in the characters over a long time period.
The reason people hated those three movies was because of how much time they spent building up characters and showing how the starwars universe was and worked politically. There was so much more depth to those movies, TLJ is the complete opposite. Its like a kid pool in a 5 year drought. Thats how shallow it is.
RiskyChocolateBiccy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:48:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not so sure people hated those movies because they spent time building characters and showing the politics. I think people hated those movies due to stilted dialogue and uninteresting direction for the most part. Quality of TLJ aside, im not sure you can argue it's direction was uninteresting?
Minscota ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 12:51:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I never said it was uninteresting. Im calling it shallow. Its not much better than a transformers movie besides some of the acting.
This movie only exists to justify the next generation of the movies beyond that it really means nothing to the overall story and didnt move the story at all.
As someone else stated. Its a spectacle and nothing else and its fine we disagree, but this movie did a disservice to fans and is aimed at brining in a new generation of kids who will buy toys. Its nothing more and thats sad.
RiskyChocolateBiccy ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 12:56:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I know you didn't ๐ I was just trying to say a positive about the movie. I'm extremely conflicted myself about my opinion on it. I'm not sure I'm ready to call it a disservice to the fans just yet though. It certainly has it flaws, but I do think there was a lot to love and enjoy about it. And regardless, it is the episode 8 we have and it always will be, perhaps we need time to accept that first?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:27:58 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think Empire was more character driven, and it was done in a much more coherent way
Kapoloo ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:26:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Tbh I think the reason for Snoke dying with no explanation of his background or past is so that it can be explained through a show/book/comic so that Disney can keep milking the cash cow.
TheChokenOne ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:38:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What do you mean by "its place in the franchise"? It's certainly canon now. Do you mean its ranking in the franchise?
RiskyChocolateBiccy ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 13:40:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I guess I mean both it's ranking and the direction it has taken the franchise.
Elcatro ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:46:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think Snokes death scene would have been better if they hadn't shown the lightsaber turning, surprise factor would be through the roof.
JohnnyDrama68 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:00:29 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think the leia scene was well received by some out of sentiment for her actual death.
When Kylo chose not to fire on her and the other tie fighters did, she should have died right there.
It would have been a better sendoff for her character.
That scene absolutely had me cringing and I loved Leia. This movie did not honor her at all.
makz242 ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 19:26:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Was expecting a very dark n scary Snoke but left disappointed.
[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 21:30:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I can't believe Rian Johnsonhas a while Star Wars trilogy. Like this film has better direction at times than TFA but man.. if he couldn't tell this was bad there's a problem.
crazymar1000 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 12:43:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think somewhere in the Last Jedi thereโs an absolutely fantastic 2 hr film. However so much screen time was wasted with pointless side plots when it should have been given to main characters. I found my self checking the time on more than one occasion which is something I should never have to do in a Star Wars movie. Luke and Kylo fight for what, two swings of a light saber? Thatโs the dramatic climax of these two characterโs relationship which is being established this entire film? Finn leaves the base, charges at the cannon, is saved and then walks back with Rose with absolutely no consequences, sure it shows heโs committed to the rebellion but thereโs no tension when characters can just walk about freely.
Thereโs some really nice character moments and a few truly perfect sequences (throne room) itโs just a shame that itโs bogged down by filler
RawerPower ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:22:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
All the hype about Snoke ended up worse than Smoke.
Al89nut ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 01:12:31 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Help me - if you join TFA and TLJ together, the entire time period covered is what, five or six days?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:01:56 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
TFA is over a longer period of time but yeah the last jedi was much less not even 2 days.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 05:15:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Episode 7 in my opinion was a rehash of Episode 4 and a money grab. Episode 8 was pointless in my opinion not furthering the plot. This whole trilogy is just a cash cow. Six films were enough.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:22:52 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And Clone Wars
AttackVektor ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 19:49:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I donยดt wanna get too deep into conspiracy territory but I feel like every Disney SW movie is preceded by reviews featuring liberal use of the term "best Star Wars movie ever", and then people see it and go "eh. It was ok I guess".
SaltHallonet ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 19:52:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Its uncanny how reviewers who are usually quite harsh on superhero movies tend to be so nice to these starwars flicks with the same "humour" and "plots"
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 22:54:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
ScruffTheJanitor ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:32:57 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
For the Luke thing it wasnt a minute, it was a split second.
I assume it was the idea he can save many lives by killing Ben now. I dunno doesn't seem to crazy that for a split second he considers it.
SSF2_OW ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:50:36 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The guy believed he could redeem space Hitler, but he's now going to murder his own family, who he's known for the entire child's life, who he has raised, in his sleep? Just straight up murder some kid. That's something Luke would do?
ScruffTheJanitor ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:45:42 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
For a split second. Heres how it goes in his head
"Oh shit this guys even darker than I thought, hes going to kill thousands of people, hes going to be Darth Vader v2" "I could save all those lives if I kill him right now"
"No I cant do it"
End.
So yes you're right killing a kid in his sleep isnt something Luke would do. Thats why he didnt do it. Did you miss that part?
Ayoade_Bar ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 18:51:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
God, what are they doing with the whole force/Star Wars mythos?
It used to be a rare and exclusive talent. Now, I get that it's more PC to make out that anybody can have it, that it's not heritable, that it's not an elite talent, that the street sweeper has it. But it totally ruins the mystery and intrigue about Rey's parents, about Snoke, about how rare it is, and everything that has come before. Rey is now officially a Mary-Sue because it can happen to anyone, no explanation required. This goes against everything that has come before.
That's my main criticism, before all the others. It's becoming YA sci-fi. I'm out.
[deleted] ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 19:00:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
While people didn't like Rey being as powerful as she was in TFA I assumed in Ep8 they would explain why (like she was trained at a young age but something went wrong and she had he memory wiped). But because of Ep8 she is now a Mary-Sue character.
[deleted] ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 18:57:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
wolfgang187 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 19:03:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Indeed.
Satans_whiskers ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 18:58:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. Every meaningful relationship in the series is rendered pointless because of this idiocy. The force is passed on, like height or IQ. This change ruins the previous films arcs.
theivoryserf ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:39:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's bullshit, originally it was something that people could learn - a much better concept.
shoddygo ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:04:18 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
no? you had to have a connection to the force to be trained in it. the jedi temple didn't take on anybody
Madagaskar521 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:02:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Still better backstory than Anakin being born by the force. I think in the IX they will show Knights of Ren training and connection between Kylo-Luke-Snoke. It would piss me off if they cut the Snoke story by killing him
Spoiler
chellynaeb ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:25:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'd like to hear what people thought of Poe in this movie, because I felt that his characterisation this time vastly undercuts what we know of him, his rationality and his leadership skills which he demonstrated in The Force Awakens. Besides Poe being the best pilot the Resistance has, we've seen that he keeps calm under pressure and helps to make strategic plans as part of the Resistance committee.
Suddenly he's an egoistic and impulsive commander who thought he would be promoted. But he wasn't, so he's not happy with his new boss, disobeys direct orders and makes half-assed plans on the sly? I can't wrap my head around this new Poe.
I just want to clarify that Poe is one of my favourite characters, and it broke my heart to see him act out like this in this movie.
rthunderbird1997 ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 20:12:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was okay, not terrible but not very good. There are some excellent shots and ideas but a lot of poorly constructed exploration of those ideas to the point of laughter sometimes. The tone was inconsistent as was a lot of the narrative. It was like a 6/10, bang average. So why is it so well reviewed?
Nindisclosure_64 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 20:28:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
$$$
schleibenschliben2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:36:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
politics too.
MulderD ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 20:16:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I can't believe Leia was Snoke this whole time!
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 01:37:59 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Birdies2393 ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 21:22:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I just want to say I think the failures of this film can be chocked down to the failures of TFA
It was a completely uninspired sequel that treated many of the accomplishments in the original trilogy as failures and it rubbed me the wrong way. It didn't do anything new to the series either.
I really wanted to see that reversing of situations in the new sequels. Where the New Republic had become well off and soft and the enemy they faced weren't a bunch of powerful super evil enemies with good plans but a bunch of radical terrorists struggling to inflict as much damage as possible in the name of a despised ideology.
I think the chances for a good post-9/11 star wars film that analyzed and Drew parallels to the us rebellion that former our republic and the one of the original trilogy were missed out on. And that saddens me because it would of been an obvious and ingenious direction to go with with the film.
The movie leaves me thinking "what is the point of anything anyone has done in the history of these movies?"
Nothing has ever lasted. No one fighting for peace has ever achieved it. No empire or republic that has risen has been able to stand against a Deus ex machina nuclear machine created by a bunch of seperatists or a kid who shot rats on a shithole desert planet.
Why would anyone have hope for any rebellion or resistance when it always goes so wrong in this universe?
This movie reminds me of Man Of Steel but it plays out those theological and thematic arguments in all the wrong way.
It's like if Superman saving the planet ended up killing a lot of people AND making everything worse for everyone for ever. It's nihilistic in a way.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:03:17 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It even tarnished the Force Awakens by disregarding a lot of what it built up. Rian Johnson is a fucking hipster
Birdies2393 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 00:16:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But what TFA built up is stupid. Snoke is a lame clone of the emperor. Rey is a placeholder character. And Kylo is a Anakin clone.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:54:09 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I feel the same. tfa was never more than a pale imitation of anh. tlj is just making it more clear.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:51:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because Disney, despite the cinematic abortion known as Star Trek: Into Darkness, gave the keys to one of the biggest Hollywood hacks of all time (JJ Abrams).
stabbybit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:12:15 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well, not entirely true. The Jedi lasted for "over a thousand generations."
While that kind of timespan is bafflingly long, I think we ought to give the Jedi credit if they can maintain peace for over 20,000 years assuming Star Wars uses the same approximate generational cohorts, lol.
Rory-mcfc ยท 54 points ยท Posted at 10:43:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Didnโt enjoy it at all when I walked out last night. Iโve slept on it now and I donโt think it was as bad as I thought, just really disappointing. When I walked out of the cinema after TFA and Rogue One I was buzzing but after this I was just a bit dissatisfied. All my friends felt the same also which led to a few rants on the car ride home haha
Commander-Pie ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 11:29:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You liked Rogue One more than this one..?
Rory-mcfc ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 11:31:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I did. Maybe it was just because the Vader scene at the end was so good that it left me with a better impression though.
Commander-Pie ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 11:33:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah that scene was amazing gotta agree, but I almost fell asleep during the middle parts as I couldn't care any less about the characters.
Rory-mcfc ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 11:36:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think thatโs how I felt in TLJ about Finn/Rose to be honest
theivoryserf ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:42:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Except that it's the tertiary villain of the film tearing up supposed heroes after the protagonists have died...bad scene
Linubidix ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:01:59 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That scene is great in a vacuum, but it's within a boring disjointed film.
The Vader scene is just an awesome YouTube video.
Bolieve_That ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 12:07:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The almost-final scene with Luke was fucking good too.
Rory-mcfc ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 12:19:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I dunno I was excited to see Luke fight maybe, then I realized it wasnโt even him there.
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 12:15:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
Wiffernubbin ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:01:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rogue One feels like a star wars film, TFa and TLJ feel like parody
Dontshootimgay69 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:20:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I hope Gareth Edwards directs episode 9 or at least a new anthology film. Get him a great writer and he will crush it.
theivoryserf ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:41:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rogue One is abysmal, there are no characters
stabbybit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:55:53 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's a war story about soldiers on a desperate mission. What's important is that they are soldiers and have a mission. How much can you tell me about the eight Rangers from Saving Private Ryan? There was a guy from New York and we know this because his jacket said Brooklyn on it. And a guy who was Jewish and Tom Sizemore and Tom Hanks were buddies before D-Day. And without Googling did you realize there were actually only seven of them?
The criticism of Rogue One for "not having characters" always makes me wonder how many people watched Rogue One not realizing they weren't watching another space opera, lol. Put Star Wars in the title, and apparently everyone expects a singular kind of movie. The first time somebody tries to do something a little different with Star Wars, and people freak the fuck out.
atomicbrett ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:52:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Rogue One wasn't a better film, but was a lot more interesting imo. All the scenes of sitting around on the rebel ship and the Luke island stuff was pretty monotonous
ChipMania ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 11:48:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rogue one started badly, with awful pacing and loads of skips everywhere, however towards the last half of the film it was so awesome when I realised they were all going for a suicide mission instead of them all making it out somehow, found if really exciting, enjoyed it much more to what I watched last night.
MrInYourFACE ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:55:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I liked every single star wars movie including clone wars better than this one. This movie wouldn't even make m top 50 of favorote movies of all time, the old trilogy is 1-3.
Commander-Pie ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 14:01:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
k
TheChokenOne ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 13:49:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wow. Opinions I guess. For me, this is by far the best of the new movies. TFA and Rogue One did nothing for me in terms of breaking new ground and introducing new concepts, while this film was everything I wanted and more.
Sw3Et ยท 50 points ยท Posted at 11:30:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This movie felt like a bad Star Wars fan fiction.
Dallywack3r ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 17:14:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Some of the fake movie plots concocted by trolls and fanboys were better and made more sense than what we got.
Destructoranal ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 12:35:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's like the "HP and the Cursed Child" of the star wars fandom.
Ratachu ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 14:13:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No. Itโs not
Dontshootimgay69 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:22:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I wish this movie was fan fiction since that would have been way better then this piece of shit.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 18:07:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I just wonder how they managed to get a cgi ghost yoda look more crap than prequel-yoda and even original muppet-yoda.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:41:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was a puppet...
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:08:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lol really?
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 20:13:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
100 percent. I think there's a consencus that the first 10 seconds is CGI, because it looked off, but after that? In the close ups? Yeah, that was a puppet.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:24:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wow
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:39:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The prequels gonna start getting more credit after the sequels lol
BobTurnip ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 21:52:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Based on this movie, I have made the definite decision not to pay to see another Star Wars movie ever again. I thought it was that bad. A complete mess, which strips the story of the OT of its entire point and purpose, disrespecting the characters from that story (including the memory of Carrie Fisher), leaving only the iconography of that art served up cold as a bunch of marketing gimmicks, bad jokes and pointless characters. I hated it, and I'm so disappointed. The only thing I look forward to now is Red Letter Media's review of it.
RiceandBeansandChees ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 22:05:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously, who thought space superman leia was a good idea?
BobTurnip ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 22:14:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
She does the superman thing, then spends the rest of the movie either in a coma, or just sitting around. So stupid. They could so easily have given Leia a powerful, graceful and fitting sendoff of some kind, at least in post production, but they seem to have lacked the ability to do anything with an ounce grace or coherence in this movie. Likewise, Luke is the beloved hero of the OT. His character deserves better than a lazy, flip-flopping, grumpy old man who can suddenly force-ghost himself whilst still alive and then evaporate. WTF ?
Disrespectful to the characters, the actors and the original movies.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:19:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think they wanted to give Luke and Leia their reunion moment at the end of the film.
I imagine there will be a timejump and she will have passed away off camera.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:36:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I reckon they would have changed or reshot that part but since she passed away they kept everything as is.
Whiskersgrower ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 22:22:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was a terrible movie.
Flinn's story didnt go nowhere and super leia was laughable. Also, take a close look at the lighting swords during the fight scenes and the choreography, they should have hired a dozen of hong kong's martial artists...
OhBtwWhichOnesPink ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 23:23:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
such a flat story line and characters, i think im done with star wars, such ashame
GiveMeACLoak ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:27:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree. I love Star Wars but this film just undoes everything done in episodes 1-6.
ED_ofthe_DEAD ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 23:54:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm off to watch The Phantom Menace to clean my Star Wars palette.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:42:58 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I watched Revenge of the Sith, even with all its flaws it was still better than this
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:25:03 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think most people consider Revenge of the Sith to be a good movie. A lot of people even say it's better than Return.
mariusmule ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:21:29 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This. I might get downvotes for this but over the next few years I suspect the prequels will be (rightfully, IMO), accepted as a masterpiece by Lucas.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:23:51 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Eh, episode 1 and 2 are really not good at all. They have a lot of flaws. Just cause this movie is also bad, doesn't mean they were masterpieces.
But I can concede that Lucas was at least trying to do something different. This movies goes right back to Empire vs Rebels. They basically invalidate what happened in the original trilogy.
SSF2_OW ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:13:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
For me, the prequels sit in a category of flawed but good films. They are star wars to a T. They built worlds, and characters, they live and breathe star wars. Sure there's too much CGI, there's Jar Jar, there's some awful dialogue but I can live with that because they give me everything I want from an expansion of the star wars universe. The sequel trilogy so far has given me nothing from a star wars universe. They currently sit in the category of flawed and bad. (Okay TFA was passable, but it's way too derivative, it's not a bad film per se)
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:51:53 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
there was enough good to balance the bad to say as a trilogy it's a flawed masterpiece
TussalDimon ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:04:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
For now I'll say that I was whelmed. I saw some of the best stuff in the whole franchise, but also some really dumb and pointless moments.
Also I rewatched the Force Awakens last night and liked it more.
bjkman ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:23:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'd like to thank /u/Lonely_lord for PM'ing me The Last Jedi Spoilers... Burn in hell man
bedbugsex ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:35:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Eh, nothing that surprising. I don't think even the fans of the movie rate the plot as the high point.
GeneralShowzer ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:08:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Definitely need to see this again, but I will go in a month in an almost empty theater to try to make sense of it.
There is a part that's a copy of ROTJ, where Snoke has this master plan and everything is hopeless and he shows Rey the rebellion dying, it's straight from ROTJ. But in ROTJ this moment of hopelessness lasted very little , and the Emperor failed because he didn't take the ewoks into account as primitive as they were.
In this movie that state lasts pretty much the entire movie. And they keep inventing things that delayed the rebels demise from incompetence of the officers, to some pretty convoluted events,taking out a fleet with a hyperspace jump , conveniently positioned rebel base, double crosses, and fake double crosses, Lukes distraction.I don't know it felt like too much. ROTJ kept things pretty simple
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:11:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
so basically Johnson went full Brick: convolution hiding behind cleverness
kievrob ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:01:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So Holdo (Laura Dern's name, right?) didn't want to be a hero, just to help the light, and that's her redemption to us in the audience who thought she was a bit of a jerk.
But then why did she leave her entire crew in the dark, and allowed them to lose enough morale to start a mutiny. Why didn't she just say "I'm not a coward Poe, there's a rebel base like 10 minutes from here, that's why I'm taking the escape pods".
Did I miss something?
LDKCP ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:06:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When that knowledge became available the First Order found out pretty fast. It was a simple need to know basis, a command structure plan. This is Poe's fuck up.
TomTheJester ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 00:41:41 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rey and Luke's entire storyline summarised:
"You're Luke Skywalker" "I was" "You're LUKE. SKYWALKER" "I was....wanna meditate?" "Sure"
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 00:56:10 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My big complaint about the movie is the scale of it.
We're told that the First Order has somehow managed to take over the entire freaking galaxy, because somehow the half dozen planets it destroyed in the last movie managed to destroy the entire Galactic Republic (what?) and now only Leia's "Resistance" stands in their way... which even at the start of the movie seems to be only a few hundred strong.
You'd think that taking over the entire freaking galaxy would be a pretty tall order for the First Order, which in the last movie was apparently just some fringe movement at the edge of the galaxy. So you'd assume that the senior leadership of the First Order might be busy coordinating the tens of thousands of starships which are currently busy taking control of the vast number of planets which make up the inhabited regions of the galaxy. But nope, the entire senior leadership of the First Order (an old man, a moody teenager, and a red-headed dimwit whom nobody in the entire script respects or fears) seems to be here, chasing down a few hundred underequipped dudes. They certainly don't seem to have any awareness that there might be other goings-on elsewhere that deserve their attention.
An entire galaxy-wide conflict seems to have fewer combatants than the average English soccer match.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:10:14 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Okay, so there are not two factions in the universe right now but 3
At the start of TFA, The New Republic are basically ruling what the Old Republic did. The First Order is fringe group at the Outer Rim that is very well supplied as its the successor to the Empire. The Resistance is under control of Leia and split off from the New Republic because they believed the First Order were a much bigger threat. After the events of the original trilogy, the New Republic massively downsized their army by about 90%.The Resistance seems to have the majority of that amount
At the end of TFA, the Resistance is all but wiped out by the Starkiller Base. A fraction of ships remained and managed to escape.
The first Order now have a strong military against a very weak Republic whose main fighting force was decimated. So they can take over the galaxy relatively easily. However at this point they basically do not have control as this is immediately post TFA
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:40:24 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
All of which sorta makes sense when it's explained, but none of it is shown on screen.
jumpyg1258 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:43:56 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So this movie did the typical 3 diverging storyline bits like other Star Wars movies and I must say, I wasn't a fan of 2 of them. Movie was only interesting IMO during the Rey/Skywalker parts of the movie.
BlooScreen ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 02:55:24 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Did I miss something in the significance of the final planet being lined with salt? It seemed weird to have a character mention it but it not be important later on
lorez77 ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 11:33:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
As I was watching it yesterday I got a strong feeling of the creators moving from one set piece to the next without purpose, without character development or meaningful dialogue (the only bit I liked was the one when Yoda talks about the importance of mistakes but that too was trite). And deja vu (โI sense conflict in youโ, etc. forgive me if the quote isnโt 100 percent correct, I had to watch it in Italian). It was better than episode VII but it would have taken Lucas at his worst to do worse.
goldrunout ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 11:57:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Agree (except for when you say that it was better than 7). It looked like they really wanted to remake scenes from ESB and ROTJ with minor twists at the end that were mostly irrelevant. The entire plot was created around these moments. The only good one was the development of Kylo, especially after the snoke scene.
mariusmule ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 16:26:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Absolute embarrassment. Star Wars is now made and marketed for โdudebrosโ and girls who used to think any guy who likes Star Wars is โweirdโ and โcreepy.โ
FanEu7 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:09:07 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm no fan of this movie or TFA but what do you mean with that?
Socialism_Is_Greed ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 19:19:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This did not feel like a Star Wars movie.
Luke tries to assassinate Kylo Ren....for some reason...instead of trying to help him....for some reason?
Complete shift in tone that makes this feel more like an Avengers / Guardians of the Galaxy movie more than a Star Wars movie
Snoke gets built up as the BBEG, no details on who he is are shared, and then he dies like a bitch. Apparently in the Star Wars universe leaving unattended lightsabers at your side is a good idea especially when you're in a room full of force users
Really bad fight choreography such as CGI Luke doing Matrix-style dodges which made him look like CGI Yoda from Episode II
That Casino shit
Critics will lap this up, fanboys will lap this up; but everyone will remember that this was the film that killed the Star Wars franchise.
As someone who grew up with the OT, invested hundreds of hours in the games, books, comics, and cartoons, this was the moment where I decided I no longer cared about Star Wars. It's just not interesting anymore.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 16:10:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like the best thing to come out of this movie, is the eventual GIF response you can post when someone is salty, with that guy picking off the white stuff of the ground, putting it in his mouth, spitting it out and saying "Salt."
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:52:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
i can't wait for the gif of leia poppins.
wicket42 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:58:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Or Luke drinking that milk with a shit eating grin
genida ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:12:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
All other things aside I'm a liiiittle peeved that Rey goes from scavenging nobody to facing Supreme Leader Snoke with near unwavering zeal in what... about a week? Two at most? It felt like it moved real fast. She definitely went from desert to 'this lightsaber calls to you!' in about two days, tops, and facing down Kylo Ren the day after that.
How much time is spent in hyperdrive in general? How much time did Finn and Rey really have in getting to know each other? How long was she on the island with Luke? Was the entirety of her training really done in a day or two?
What's the timeline here? Everything feels a bit rushed.
braulio09 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:43:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Two days in the island, by my count.
Nawpo ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:49:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's sufficient time to be an unstoppable ninja who kills a dozen trained guards.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:56:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's just it. They needed to give this story time to breathe. It feels claustrophobic.
Jezamiah ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 21:15:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone else just gutted that they're trying to pair Rose and Finn? All that chemistry from TFA and they just shoehorn Rose in.
Apart from their subplot which honestly felt useless I just didn't buy the romantic involvement with Rose in the end. I know Rey doesn't need a love interest and it may be better if she doesn't but seeing her look in the distance at Finn just left me bummed.
wolfgang187 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:19:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They sure couldn't pair Finn and Rey. They need to sell Rey action figures and Halloween costumes. As progressive on race as America likes to think it is, they wouldn't tolerate their snow white princess Rey being paired with someone of Finn's race.
kid_against_humanity ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 22:09:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's it exactly. For all the diversity in the films they still shy away from having a white girl hook up with a black guy.
greeb666 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:04:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Have you seen iron sky? Just curious.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 23:14:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My biggest problem with both of these films is that they tried to do so much that they kind of fucked up everything. Theyre too long, too hectic, and in the end no individual moment means that much. I think a fan cut that chops both down to a tight 100 minutes would make a big difference.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:33:19 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Reminds me of BvS
CoffeeCannon ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 00:32:01 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This movie made me genuinely upset for 20+ hours and counting.
Theres good, a lot of good within it. Noteably Yoda and the Snoke's room scenes.
But holy shit is it a sloppy cringefest of wasted opportunities and bullshit.
I feel like it could go from a 6/10 to an 8 or a 9 with editing it down and messing with one or two bits of dialogue.
JustHereForTheMemes ยท 161 points ยท Posted at 11:27:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Lot of hate in the thread so far, but I personally loved it. Great 2nd movie of a trilogy. Yeah, the scope was very contained, but honestly so was Empire's.
Going into it you know they had to sweep Snoke and Luke off so Rey and Kylo could take centre stage, and I didn't mind snoke being a bit of a let down. His arrogance ending with him being just another scheming villian mirrored Luke's arrogance of thinking he was someone unimportant well.
My only real criticism is that the casino planet could have been cut right down,and the fact that I don't understand how bombers drop bombs like that in zero gravity
Also, Adam Driver's head is way too small for that beefy a torso.
erinu63 ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 12:18:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Bomber ship had it's own gravity, cus she was falling down, same with remote. Once bombs leave ships gravity they regain momentum, I guess (how ships gravity work is better question).
KriistofferJohansson ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:50:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well, to be fair, all the ships (at least that I can recall) in Star Wars have gravity, so the bomber ones having gravity too is only logical. But yes, how they have gravity is never explained, but considering they solved how to travel in the speed of light in that universe, artificial gravity on their ships might not be a big leap.
How the dropped bombs in space though, that's still an open question I guess. Especially considering that when Leia flew out of her ship, she certainly seemed to be weightless.
Bennyboy11111 ยท 81 points ยท Posted at 11:49:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was disappointed that TFA was too safe, as a reboot copied ANH a bit too much, I still enjoyed it though. But TLJ totally eclipses TFA, takes risks, so many twists. Agreed on canto bight casino scene (although the seeds of new Jedi to be discovered was shown in the last scene) and I thought there was cheesy comedy in scenes that should be more serious. Overall loved it, some flaws. Im not someone that says best star wars since ESB crazy, I grew up on the prequels so I can appreciate the strengths and weaknesses of all star wars films enjoying them all
Fakayana ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:58:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think more people needs to learn to adopt this view. I love the OT for the great movies (characters, story, editing) they are. I really like the prequels for the immense worldbuilding they did, and how it kickstarted a renaissance for the Expanded Universe. I love that the sequels have our beloved characters developed in a believable manner.
Like, people might complain that Leia's fake-out death is unnecessary, but no one is complaining that the character Leia is ruined. No one is arguing whether Luke would've really ignited his lightsaber on the heat of emotions, it's something unexpected of our childhood hero, but not unbelievable.
JimJimmyJimJimJimJim ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:35:00 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Iโll argue space-Mary-Poppins-Leia was unbelievable
Bennyboy11111 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:10:25 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
leia was force sensitive but not trained, able to sense loved ones and some force communication. Not out of the question but a bit cheesy, the directors execution was the problem for me
Leckere ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:35:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Iโve seen lots of comments about taking risks but Iโm not sure I really recognise a) there being many, and b) them being a success or worth taking.
mardymarve ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:44:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But it could be though. The only real competition it has is RotJ. Prequel trilogy is worse, Force Awakens was not as good (too much a copy of New Hope) and Rogue One was not quite there (I think not actually being the 'dark and gritty war movie' we were promised spoiled it for me).
Those crazies might not be so crazy, depending on your view of just how good Return of the Jedi is.
Bennyboy11111 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:39:23 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I rate revenge of the sith highly, I personally like the prequels but yeah they aren't as good though RotS is quite good up there, RotJ wasn't liked by many for the Ewoks (beating stormtroopers a bit of a joke) and recycled death star. Although stormtroopers over the whole trilogy were useless, even in the sequel trilogy the first order is useless. Dreadnought neutralised by Poe alone and then one bomber, seems an armoured force with 30-40 years over 2 wars fighting against small lightly armed forces still can't defend against small lightly armed forces they are a shambles. Clone wars was at least fairly matched symmetric warfare, compared to unsymmetrical insurgencies. Edit: though the first order did quell the speeder attack on Crait, still diverted all fighters to take on the millenium falcon
JDFreeman ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:24:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think you're missreading a lot of the criticisms as hate. it's not hate. It's more frustration. Last Jedi came so close to being perfect but was let down by some really really obvious mistakes, painful humor that the director should of spotted before release. A new edit removing 30 odd minutes would turn this from 3/5 to 5/5
Jeanpuetz ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 14:48:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I am amazed at the negativity in this thread. It feels like people want to be contrarian. I absolutely loved this movie, and so did most reviewers.
Sure, there are some problems with the movie, but those are, imo, minor things that don't take away from the overall enjoyment.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 02:45:59 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My expectations were diving during the first hour, but once the film took that drastic turn, I loved every single moment.
Youโd think the movie was terrible by reading these comments.
atomicbrett ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:41:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I honestly though Driver's jacked body was CGI after seeing him all thin and emaciated in Silence last year. God bless those Hollywood workout routines
Jay-Em ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:53:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, Empire actually takes place on a very small scale, and that's one of my favourite things about it. Han and Leia on the run from the Empire is just a vehicle to explore those characters while Luke is with Yoda. In terms of the galactic civil war, very little happens - we don't even see the Rebel fleet until the end - it's all about Han and Leia growing closer while Vader grows increasingly impatient and kills various Admirals.
In The Last Jedi, I guess the casino subplot is meant to serve the same purpose, but it doesn't quite have the character moments that ESB did.
Ratachu ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:34:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I donโt fucking understand people. The movie is great, Iโm with the critics here. Yes there are flaws but all movies have flaws. I was entertained, I think they did justice to Luke. Adam Driver and Daisy Ridley were great. The cinematography was top notch, there were small pacing problems in the first act, but after that the movie starts going on and on until the final claimatic end. I also liked Poe, I think that they really develop him in this movie.
Asiriya ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 00:01:39 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's massive pacing problems, huge logic problems, and worst of all it was boring for long stretches. The Jedi were cool, I loved Snoke and I didn't mind him passing away. But we had a long film and not enough of it was spent on the characters. They're going to need to do a lot of work in the next movie, I don't think it can work.
Money-not_you_again ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:43:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just wanna reply to your first point: I agree, I loved it too. But there's so much ridiculous hate on boards all over. People criticised TFA to kingdom come because it was "too safe" or "a rehash".
Well now you have something that's totally unsafe and really giving us something different for a Wars flick- but not the criticism is "it's not Wars enough" or "it's not the classic Wars!"
Nothing will ever be good enough for the fanboy-dom because we exalt the OT and constantly find reasons to shit on new stuff while ignoring the faults of the classic films. It's just absurd.
Asiriya ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:03:21 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is just a plain bad film. It's nothing to do with Star Wars (though I felt the tone was off), my issues with the film are filmmaking issues - pacing,l and script primarily.
Nzash ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:29:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"This soup is too cold!"
"This soup is too hot!"
Maybe they should try and hit the middle? I hate people who just dismiss any criticism with crap like "Oh whatever, fanboys would complain regardless." Hell, as it stands now it turns out that TFA was actually a better Star Wars movie than this Marvelesque abomination.
Please consider that people are unhappy for a reason and it's not as simple as "they'd hate it anyway no matter how good it is".
-rabid- ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:02:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, absolutely nothing about those bombers made any sense whatsover. They just wanted space-Lancasters so they had space-Lancasters. (or space-B-17's for the Americans)
Dragshisballsz ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:14:46 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
except they didnt have to sweep them off to let the others take center stage. they couldve just came up with a story that made sense and would naturally revolve around these characters in a way that feels natural. instead they forced them into a shitty story and just killed off the only interesting characters for cheap shock value.
SomeSkinnyWhiteBoy ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 15:21:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Surprise surprise, it's garbage. mild shock
bedbugsex ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:36:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was surprised. I really liked Rian's Looper, and Rogue One gave me a hope that I can like star wars movies.
tlvrtm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:21:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Same, so much talent on-board. Still optimistic about his trilogy despite not really liking this one.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:33:02 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was surprised and looking back I should have seen it coming
Lundorff ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 23:13:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I am kinda shocked to even think this way, but despite its many, many, many flaws, the new trilogy (1-3) felt more like Star Wars than this farce. Why couldn't they just have continued the foundation from TFA :/
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:51:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I loved TFA, even though it was a bit safe it was a perfect foundation to be expanded upon. TLJ doesn't expand upon TFA, TLJ fucking destroys it while adding nothing. It felt more like a shitty Sequel Trilogy reboot than a TFA sequel.
rhllor ยท 42 points ยท Posted at 11:06:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Not a Star Wars fan but I watch all the movies in theatres on release day (OT during the 1997 rerelease). Gotta say that the fight with Snoke's guards (omg awesome costume design) is my favorite scene. Not Snoke's death, not Rey and Ben's fight - but the two of them facing the guards.
I also liked all the animals especially that one with the humongous boobies looking at Rey like "you know you want some".
TheElStick ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 15:34:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think itโs incredible how the reviews are on completely different ends of the spectrum from everyone here. People saying this movie was worse than The Phantom Menace. This all doesnโt line up to me. Anyone that says they liked the movie gets downvotes hard.
highway_robbery82 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:48:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I suppose the feedback on here right now is from SW fans who've seen it on opening day, the general audience (and many reviewers) might have different expectations. If there were a Reddit review aggregator the score would probably go up in a few days when more casual moviegoers see it.
TheElStick ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:32:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean it was like a lot of these people were mostly looking for reasons to hate the movie. But damn the reactions on here youโd think they murdered the entire franchise with this movie.
highway_robbery82 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:49:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I wouldn't say it's murdered the entire franchise, but my enthusiasm for Episode IX is in critical condition! The trailer/buzz for IX in 2019 is going to have to deliver a bloody massive shot of adrenaline to revive it.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:35:23 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I can't say they haven't murdered it
TheElStick ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:45:09 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean you can, but whatโs likely going on is you built up your hype so much and it didnโt live up to your insane amount of hype and youโre disappointed.
alexturnersbignose ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:24:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's just a theory but I would put it down to expectations of a rabid fan base versus judging a film on it's merits. No film could realistically measure up to the amount of scrutiny this one has had. Every fan seems to have already had the film play out in their head for the last two years - how could the actual film live up to all of that?
The original trilogy was meant to be just a fun, hopefully exciting space adventure that nodded back to the serials of Lucas' childhood - nothing more, nothing less. The fact that there's a section of people that have obsessively given details and back stories to every little thing in that series has made Lucas a very rich man.
The downside is that there is absolutely zero chance any new films could match the expectations of that obsessive fan base, especially since they are now adults and expect a lot more than the simple story lines and dodgy acting of the originals
As long as the new films inspire the imaginations of todays youth then they will have done their job.
Gorm_the_Old ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:31:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not sure that's true. The original "Star Wars" was incredibly expensive for its time, when most directors were shooting contemporary adult dramas that required very little in the way of special effects or production. The sheer amount that Lucas invested into the first movie in his series suggested that he was very serious about setting a new direction in movie making, one very different from the other movies of the time.
And Lucas's own film was itself "obsessive" over "details and back stories" - it was very obvious that he had built an entire world and that one movie was just a short snapshot of it, something which again was very different from nearly every other movie of the time. Lucas himself was the first obsessed "Star Wars" fan.
The fact that so many lightweight popcorn movies have tried to be imitations of "Star Wars" is simply a credit to what the film achieved. But Lucas took his own film seriously enough that I don't think it's what he intended for it to be.
deathtotheemperor ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:30:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
r/movies has a lot of fans who are are...well, they're the kind of people who get really irrationally angry about Ewoks.
Star Wars is Serious Business around here.
Gorm_the_Old ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:22:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think it's more than that, though. r/movies has a lot of respect for movie makers that are true to their cinematic universe, and a lot of hate for movie makers that depart wildly from it - particularly to make room for merchandising or familiar cliches that they think will help sell the movie. On the other hand, critics and general audiences tend to take movies one at a time, and aren't particularly beholden to cinematic universe considerations.
I think the r/movies approach is correct, though. Moviemakers that go to great lengths to be true to their cinematic universe just end up making better movies - "Harry Potter", "The Lord of the Rings", "Mad Max", etc.
Sellout movies that try to move merchandise and please general audiences often end up being clunkers that maybe cover their costs in ticket sales, but don't have any kind of lasting impact on audiences. The perfect example here is obviously "The Hobbit" (same movie maker, ironically, but a very different approach), as well as many of the comic book movies released over the last few years.
ColeTrickleVroom ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 13:36:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was okay. Not great. Reminded me of ROTJ in parts.
Finn and Roses storyline was totally pointless though at least it gave us BDT.
Phasma is Fett all over again.
I thought it was slow paced and they could of given Hamill more than they did.
Some of the silly humour fell flat for me too.
izmebenji ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:14:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
See I thought (although she was only in it for a few secs) was super satisfying. She got her time to shine.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 14:51:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Rey beats Kylo again?? Fuck off with that ma-rey sue bullshit
tlvrtm ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:20:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Does she? Seems like a tie to me? They even gave an explanation why he lost the first time, for what it's worth. Of course she's a bit Mary Sue regardless.
bedbugsex ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 15:43:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sure she's a mary sue but why would you expect this to be different? If someone already beat you they're probably going to beat you again.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:46:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Luke vs vader
Anakin vs Dooku
They both trained and worked for it, mary sue didnt
AnonymousTrollLloyd ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:19:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Should we cut her arm off?
bedbugsex ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 15:51:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes. She didn't train in the first movie and already beat him. Why wouldn't she beat him here after a bit of training and... cutting a rock.
Not saying it made sense in the first movie but it wouldn't make sense that Kylo would beat her now either.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:15:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
i'm starting to feel bad for the bad guys. theyre so overpowered.
ChandieManCan ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:12:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No one has mentioned that we get the origin of blue milk answered in this movie.
kingkong381 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:17:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When we saw that me and my brother both looked at each other grinning like idiots as we'd been joking about wanting to know that more than any other potential reveal.
ChandieManCan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:19:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hahaha. And Luke just deadpan taking a drink straight away was hilarious.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:48:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, it's not, Blue Milk comes from Banthas, that milk was like, greenish.
ChandieManCan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:51:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I did my fact checking there and you're right it is green. My bad, I look quite the fool now.
hvktm ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:36:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Am I the only one who thinks they snoke open? I.e. Not dead
He clearly said he was the one who joined their minds, and at the end their minds were still joined.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:15:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I assumed that since it had happened many times Kylo & Rey could do it without Snokes help
Blortholth ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:16:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
5>4>Luke's Story in 6> Every thing else in 6=3>1>2=8>7
Nindisclosure_64 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:53:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Space battles in 6 were also great.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 01:44:06 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
My post / review got removed (shadowbanned, tried to link it to an IRL friend and he couldn't see it), probably because they were too long and it ended up being detected as spam (5 lengthy posts submitted in succession).
So I made my own subreddit and posted it in there, if anyone is interesting in reading a lengthy review from a nerdy armchair critic with more or less no life.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:55:25 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Cant you make posts to your own profile now? The subreddit thing probably is not needed
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:56:26 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Eh, no idea. Either way I've been meaning to make my own subreddit for a while now. Figured I may as well do it anyway.
justanotherusername_ ยท 64 points ยท Posted at 11:23:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This movie cemented me never going to see another Star Wars movie at the cinema.
I almost pulled a muscle rolling my eyes at how awful this movie was and the terrible script. So many bad lines and ridiculous side quests.
methwow ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:50:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
See you next year and in 2019 for the final to the trilogy.
Zaldrizes ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:19:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah you will be there for the Obi-wan movie. Stop talking out your ass.
pmmemoviestills ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:13:32 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Will ya'll stop saying, "side quests". This isn't a videogame
justanotherusername_ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:40:29 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Would you stop saying y'all you sound like a hick
el_throwaway_returns ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:31:25 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Okay. Ridiculous side plots.
[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 00:36:08 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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ScruffTheJanitor ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 01:04:45 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lmao
Chadwiko ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 02:14:40 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Well maybe they're magnetic or belt-fed
I mean, okay... yeah
He's been alone for a while...
Okay sure but-
I mean, I guess she's Force sensitive and that was a pure instinct
She was upset.
Only for a moment though
He's been through a lot...
I...sure... yes but-
I mean, he struggled with it but-
Okay, yeah that wasn't really fantastic.
mariusmule ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 20:27:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Iโm trying not to cry right now. Iโve invested so much in this film and now it turns out itโs shit. I know all the reviews (probably written by Disney shills) say itโs โgoodโ but I donโt fucking care. Iโll try to convince everyone I know whoโs a fan of this series or who has kids who are fans to not see it. This hurts us all.
Would it be possible to file a claim for false advertising? Disney and Lucasfilm spent a massive amount of resources teasing mysteries that will never be solved.
theivoryserf ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 22:46:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why? Get a hobby dude
...
LDKCP ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 21:11:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Too invested it seems. I loved it, went in without expectation as I'm not a huge lover of TFA.
xieliming ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:42:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone else bothered by FTL being used as a super effective weapon (albeit kamikaze in this instance)? If that's possible, why do these armies even use blasters for ship combat? Just launch missiles of significant mass at FTL at each other for instakills. Shields are pointless. Missing your shots are not possible. Battles would be over in seconds not slugfests we see all the time...
Put it this way, this is fantasy (set in space) not sci-fi. There's no internal consistency and we shouldn't expect any. The more I analyze the more disappointed I am. I think I should just heed Mark Hamill's advice to enjoy it for what it is, to paraphrase him: it's just a movie to make money (entertain).
Doylie1984 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:25:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Think I need to give it a second viewing, def not upto previous film standards.
Whatโs bugging me the most is, Snorg I need his back story.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 20:42:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Mixed bag. Not very happy with it but can't complain too much. Did anyone else feel the dialogue was way too childish and dumbed down?
xorangeelephant ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:50:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Absolutely agree with the dialogue. It was obviously made for children because the dialogue is so expository and simple.
BlueSurfingWombat ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 23:11:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The rebel cruiser chase plot belonged in a tv episode not a main franchise film. Luke, Rey and Kylo stuff was fantastic though.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 02:04:40 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
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SG_StrayKat ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:25:03 on December 25, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
As a fellow critical thinker with discernment, I feel you may be on to something here.
Disney having established they will re-shoot things to fit their (now dumbed down and retarded) brand, your hypothesis here is probably the most accurate.
Rian "Jar Jar" Johnson, I feel, will do FANTASTIC things with a completely new storyline with characters with no historical context, no prior bias, interjecting his own crazy childhood fantasies into the movie he writes and directs.
But on THIS movie, of which he wrote in the fantastic life lesson of, "you learn best from your failures," well...
You failed, Rian. Learn from it.
geosarg ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 03:34:21 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ngl, I think I preferred the prequels to The Last Jedi, at least they had a some what decent plot, only one comic relief character (Jar Jar) rather than every character (Luke's cringy jokes made my childhood memories shudder and scream in pain), good music that makes you feel something at the right moments, larger scale battles, somewhat inventive and at least varied weaponry (not giant cannon this, giant cannon that).... Not to mention the lowkey bombardment of political correctness, snoke's anticlimactic death after being bigged up (I guess this was to show Kylo Ren's prowess and true strength, but it just made snoke look weak and foolish), the most disgusting part was the constant creation of unanswered questions, some of which are to make room for a 100 more Disney made Star Wars Films and the rest are just gaping plot holes.
TLDR I want Rian Johnson's head mounted on the tallest spire of the Disney castle.
Destructoranal ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 11:49:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
ITT : it has a big lot of downs which surpass the ups, but it is named Star Wars and has lighsabers and the effect are good so I consider it decent enough
CJ_Jones ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:32:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
All of the negatives mentioned here don't surpass the positives for me. I enjoyed it, I would recommend it but I certainly have some noticeable quibbles with it all.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:15:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"Definitely mediocre in every way. 9/10 would watch again."
Fnhatic ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 02:45:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"Its based on death star tech!"
ANOTHER FUCKING DEATH STAR
RobbieWard123 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 13:34:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I really wanted to enjoy it, but I found it hard to get past Daisy Ridley's bad acting.
Then there's obviously the issue of the purple haired lady not telling her crew her plan which led to Finn and the Asian girl almost dieing, and Po trying to betray her.
AnOnlineHandle ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:53:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's weird, I think she was great in TFA, especially for somebody doing their first movie.
And really bad in this, like it takes a director/editor who just knows how to get the good bits. A lot more respect for JJ as I said that, I never realized that was a strength. It's similar with Xmen 2 to Xmen 3, suddenly it's like nobody can act, all because of a change in director it seems.
Waoeden ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:00:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think her acting improved for this movie
She was absolutely horrible in tfa
Nuranon ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 21:26:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lets agree that jump into the super stardestroyer was epic.
...and kinda misguided because it reveals a fatal flaw in how the mechanics of the Star Wars universe work - why not simply built big, heavy but cheap ships that jump into the enemy? From here on the question in face of defeat will always be why won't guy won't sacrifice himself and jump into the enemy flagship.
Minscota ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:04:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ships also have auto pilot.
CallMeDutch ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:38:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not sure, they did let the ship spool up because they didn't consider it a threat. They could've destroyed it before the jump.
Nuranon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:50:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was more thinking along the lines of jumping away and jumping back into a super star destroyer or something like a deathstar.
CallMeDutch ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:02:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Are they that accurate?
Nuranon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:30:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They jump in fleet and leave hyperspace right next to each other.
CallMeDutch ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:32:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Might just look close but usually there's plenty of space no?
Nuranon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:37:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not kilometers which is the accuracy you would be looking at.
tilvast ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 00:52:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just out of interest, why is there such a disconnect so far between what the critics thought and what the fans thought? Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but is Disney in the habit of paying off critics or something?
ScruffTheJanitor ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:02:58 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm gonna say Disney didn't pay off every single critic and 0 of them declined or sole out about it.
Lots still loved it. Maybe it's just the hardcore fanboys that are always the most vocal that disliked it
radwimps ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 01:07:21 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
More forgiving compared to the SW fandom. GA will probably align more with the critics too.
TantricLasagne ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 00:57:22 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Had entertaining and cool moments but overall was pretty bollocks story wise.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 12:51:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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DarthSunshine ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:43:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Praetorian Guards are basically space ninjas.
Waoeden ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 15:59:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It baffles me how this is being praised by the critics
Well i guess there is no indepebdent movie critics anymore. All of them are shills.
This is , at best, a divise movie. The praise being almost consensual sounds fishy to me
Gorm_the_Old ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:58:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There were several very negative reviews - Variety had a solidly negative review, as did The Irish Times and the National Review.
And those reviews were not well received here in this very same forum when they were initially posted . . . O how quickly reddit's opinion changes.
MonkeyBoyBlue ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:01:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I wanted Ade Edmondson to start shouting 'You complete bastards' and smashing his head thru the wall and consoles a la The Young Ones or Bottom.
Riddy86 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:34:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I seen the movie with friends, and we were 50/50 divided on this, at the end the little boy sweeping the floor with the broom, did he or did he not force pull the broom into his hand when it was leaning against the wall?
I'm 100% sure he did, some others said no.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:38:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
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Riddy86 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:37:23 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think its pretty special to be honest, and quite an important part of the story, thats just me maybe.
BubbleBathGorilla ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:08:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The real reason for the Rose kiss, Rian is a huge Seal fan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMD2TwRvuoU
bob0201 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:07:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What i really liked was kylo not joining rey and killing snoke (sad wasted him) still suprised But i missed some of the universe building not just rebel scum vs the first order
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:43:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
so like ROTJ only the execution was piss poor but hey at least it was "different" right?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:37:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm really torn on the movie, there were parts that i liked while there also parts that i hated. I liked the new character that they introduced but Snoke was a huge waste though im interested in Kylo being the main big bad in 9. Hamills performance was great but im not really sure what to think about Lukes death
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:45:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I might be talking nonsense here but I got strong Oliver Twist vibes from that kid at the end. Literally a Twist ending?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:20:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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DontPokeMe91 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:27:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The fighter who tasted the red salt and said one line canโt remember what it was, was that a cameo from someone famous or just some random extra?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:35:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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Kamydit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:51:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Im not sure about the guy who said the "Salt", but I could swear, that the guy next to him who smirked at the "Salt" line, was Gareth Edwards.
ED_ofthe_DEAD ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:03:45 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought it was Stephen Dorff
5littlewhitevicodin ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:35:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Please someone answer:
Did Luke 'choose' to die? And if so, why? I know Obi Wan says 'If you strike me down I will become more powerful, etc', and that seemed to manifest in Obi Wan being able to contact Luke through the force as a spirit.
Luke has proven he can already do that, in an even more helpful way than Obi Wan ever could, so why did he need to die?
Pavleena ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:30:33 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
IIRC, during the first Rey/Ben bond scene, he says something like "you cannot be doing that, it would drain you of energy and you would die". So I guess it is a concept known to the Jedi.
SoulofThesteppe ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:17:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
wait, people have already seen it?
paultheschmoop ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:21:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
out in Australia and UK, I saw an employee screening last night
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:34:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In NZ we are a day ahead of everyone
shannytyrelle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:19:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Opened last night here in Thailand
Pavleena ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:59:07 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
About twelve hours ago, yes.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:03:58 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
so, that was Adrian Edmondson as a First Order Admiral on Hux's ship, yeh?
BlooScreen ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:44:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did Yoda use force lightning on that tree?
wolfgang187 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:49:59 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nope, he just
elongatedpoop ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 08:04:24 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
i cant believe snoke was jar jar all along
sachos345 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:09:35 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I feel Luke, Snoke and Phasma were underused =(
CallMeDutch ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 12:32:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Man..I must be doing something wrong because I loved the movie. Felt original (unlike TFA) and movie held my attention the entire time. Some humor felt forced (I can feel the force!) But it's something I can overlook. Fight scene in the throneroom was sick as well.
methwow ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:54:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You will find that most of the time the people who are happy about something have no reason to go public or post about it.. You will find more comments about people who hate stuff just due to the fact of disappointment and wanting to feel like others share there opinion.. It can be dangerous as it creates an echo chamber where opinions like yours are seen as "bad".
I have already seen the movie twice and I loved it more the second time, all my friends enjoyed the movie and some of them are hardcore fans. Not everybody hated it. I would say more liked it than hated it.
Jeanpuetz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:54:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This thread is filled with all the people who hated it and none of the people who loved it. Most people, including the vast majority of reviewers, loved it, as shown by the ratings. Don't worry dude, you're certainly not alone.
CallMeDutch ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:37:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Glad that I'm not the only one haha. Just suprised by the amount of bad reviews here.
Ratachu ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:02:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No. I think the majority of people like it (look at Rotten Tomatoes for instance), but the ones who hated it are a vocal minority. Itโs a solid movie for me.
tlvrtm ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 16:53:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
RT is critics, it seems likely audience score will be way lower than critics (this poll's at 6/10 for example). Pretty odd for a blockbuster movie.
Ratachu ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:14:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It has a 8.3 in IMDB and 4.0/5 on Letterboxd
tlvrtm ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:55:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What doesnโt have an 8.3 on IMDb right after launch? Justice League and Suicide Squad probably did too
Ratachu ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:57:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But not on Letterboxd. And the DC movies are objectively bad. TFJ is only hated by crybaby Star Wars fan boys. https://letterboxd.com/film/star-wars-the-last-jedi/
tlvrtm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:06:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There might be a point to that. You would hope critics know a thing or two about whatโs needed in a good movie and they seem to love it. Doesnโt take away the feeling thereโs a lot of things seriously off about TLJ. And not in an โitโs so experimentalโ kind of way, just basic plot points going nowhere and that sort of thing.
Ratachu ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:10:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, the movie is not perfect. But it isnt terrible at all. At its worst is better than the prequels. Technically is very good: editing, cinematography, etc. There are some plot holes, yes and there are some weird scenes like the flying Leia one. But itโs not a bad movie. I think this movie will be praised more in the future than today.
tlvrtm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:56:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'd argue Revenge of the Sith left me about as mixed as TLJ did. Of course it's been ages since I've seen that but that also was a mixed bag of fantastic scenes, poor directing and occasional acting, very emotional, weird plot points, a lot less childish humour, fantastic final battle, great music, etc. Obviously, compared to that TLJ has much better directing, acting and visuals going.
Zaldrizes ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:01:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Helt?
CallMeDutch ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:59:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh..held..
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:27:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How dare you? This is the thread where we wish the new movies were more like the prequels. This isn't the thread where we're entertained by an action-packed space opera. /s
junonboi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:25:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Same, itโs definitely my favorite Star Wars movie, the story is exciting, action scenes are amazing, the dramatic scenes are beautifully acted, and I like most of the jokes, I donโt really care about the opinion is become to Marvel-ly or Disney-y, good movie is good movie
The scenes when the first order ship got split maybe one of the most beautiful scene Iโve seen this year
Most of my friends who have watched it also agree it is their best Star Wars experience
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chuiboy ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:31:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
In this movie a lot is revealed and many of the fan-theories get dismantled in disappointing ways. Before going to watch this movie I already knew that it couldn't be that great given the weak characters introduced in the first film. Throughout the movie, you will feel almost no emotional attachment or relatability to any of the characters. In fact, the most emotional scene is when an asian woman sacrifices herself to destroy a dreadnought, and even then the commercials are still more emotional. There are a lot of characters in this movie that I did not like. Rey and Finn are boring as usual, General Hux just seems like an unrealistic villain you'd get in a cartoon, Snoke is a disappointing afterthought (you learn nothing about him and he just dies), and Kylo is just confusing. The acting as well isn't great.
The plot also has its issues. For example, there is a subplot where Finn, Rose and BB8 are sent on a secret mission (by Poe) to some planet and then to the enemy ship in an attempt to disable the tracking device and save the Republic fleet. They fail and it turns out that there was already a plan to save the people but Laura Dern decided not to tell anyone resulting in a mission that ended up having no purpose and took up an hour of screentime. There is also a weird scene in the movie in which Finn and Rose are surrounded by stormtroopers and are about to be executed and then the ship takes a hit. When it cuts back to the Finn and Rose, the stormtroopers are nowhere to be seen and later appear from another room. It really feels like these movies are written in under 2 weeks a month before production.
I may be the only one that feels this way, but I also found it annoying when the camera cut to a character who would say something inconsequential like "Damn Right!" and then after 2 seconds cuts to another character who says something like "Woohoo!". Another thing that I didn't like that is also common in superhero movies is the forced humor. Why can't these type of movies be serious anymore? However, having said that I'd still give some credit to Rian Johnson for taking some risks with the movie.
hurstshifter7 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 02:35:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was largely disappointed with this film. That is all.
[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 11:59:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My first reaction after coming out of TLJ was, "OK, that was a lot of movie, I need some time to think about this." Which is usually a good sign in my book, as I find better movies linger (and ESB wasn't initially liked by audiences either.) A day later, I know I liked it, but yeah, it's overstuffed. Thanks to Rian Johnson's writing and direction, in my eyes this is probably the most competently made and visually stunning of all Star Wars movies. I liked its social commentary as well, even though it was delivered through the clunkiest subplot in the film, one that never justified its existence. My biggest issue with the film is the combination of some characters having plot armor, while the sacrifices that do happen aren't necessarily earned (unlike Rogue One). Poe Dameron's entire arc following the opening scene was also a miscalculation. That said, nearly everything involving Luke, Rey and the First Order was gold. And when it's firing on all cylinders, it is the best crafted Star Wars film to date. When it's at its worst, it's everything you feared Disney would do with the property. Thankfully the former far outweighs the latter. I'd give it a solid 7/10, likely to improve upon rewatches. I think initial audience reactions will be polarising, but it will age better than TFA did, it just has more... integrity, if that makes any sense, compromised as it may be by the Disney corporate machine.
ezioaltair12 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:20:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah. My snap reaction was that it was amazing, thanks to the visuals. But I'm coming around to your view more and more by the hour.
Faoeoa ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:50:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Your views describe it the most to me; a lot to love and a lot to dislike but it's still good to some extent.
cueyo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:02:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm starting to see this trend in the comments (haven't watched it yet but I really don't care about plot). It feels as if this movie is kinda like the Kid A of Star Wars films...
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:07:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'd compare it more to Amnesiac and Hail to the Thief, the movie's still trying to sell too many toys to be compared to Kid A.
cueyo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:12:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Fair enough. Those aren't bad records at all.
AlwaysQuotesEinstein ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:09:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I need to rewatch definitely, but I feel disappointed by this film tbh. The casino place felt very Hunger Games to me, and Leia flying back to the ship really confused me.
Also, I'm confused by Captain Phasma in this film, is she dead or not? Feels like a waste if she is. Same goes for Snoke actually, since he's like a zombie already, it seems weird he'd die just from being stabbed and I don't know whether to believe he's actually dead or not because of it.
DamoWoo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:18:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Are you for real about Snoke, dude got cleanly bisected! He's out
AlwaysQuotesEinstein ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:47:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah but he's basically a zombie anyway, he looks like he's died before! I feel annoyed that he's gone without a good backstory, but I think it's possible he'll be back.
highway_robbery82 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:36:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Pretty sure Phasma's dead, agree it feels like a waste. I think Snoke's out too. I feel like they killed all the wrong characters in this
AlwaysQuotesEinstein ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:49:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I feel that too, I actually feel like The Force Awakens was a better film, it set up a lot of interesting things that this movie (for me) just wasted. And totally agree on the characters who were killed off.
highway_robbery82 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:56:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm leaning towards that too re: TFA. I was disappointed with TFA when it came out, but it had a tough job to re-establish the franchise and introduced some interesting new characters, so I was forgiving of its flaws and excited to see where the story would go next. After seeing TLJ.... I don't know that I care that much. What plot threads has it left to pick up? The death/writing out of Leia? Luke returning as a Force ghost? The brat with the broom? A response to the Resistance's call for help? JJ has a tough job coming up with a satisfying end to this trilogy, I don't think Rian gave him much to work with.
AlwaysQuotesEinstein ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:02:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not sure how to feel about a new trilogy being given to RJ either if it's based on how Disney liked this film. I love Star WArs, I really don't want to see it become a YA franchise like Hunger Games, Divergent and Maze Runner. Those films aren't bad, but I want better for Star Wars.
highway_robbery82 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:27:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hmmm fair point, I haven't given his trilogy much thought yet. Personally, I don't care that much about the new characters in this trilogy - I don't feel like I have any "ownership" over them so am just along for the ride, I don't mind where their story goes... whereas I do care about how the legacy characters are handled because we're seeing the continuation (or rather conclusion) of stories dating back 40 years... and I'm not really that satisfied with many of the decisions that have been made where they're concerned. So, if Rian's supposed to be doing a completely new trilogy unconnected to anything else, then I have no stake in that story - it's just a blank slate that I can come to without any preconceptions or hopes. You're probably right that it will skew towards a younger (or at least teen/tween) audience, I just hope there'll be other SW material being made which caters to older fans too.
therealicedpenguin ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:55:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The movie kind of brought closure to me, the scene with Leia and Luke together broke me. The ending with the two suns just like the "beginning" wow. Couple things i disliked though. You can basically remove finn, that chick and Whoah "MASTER CODEBRAKARAKT" from the movie and nothing would have changed. Felt so forced to me. One scene when they escape down the sewers i think and when the search team enters they apparently walk over the grate in ths floor, second person says block all exits and then after he notices the whole in the floor and says look. Abd the lack of lightsaber duelling.... what a pathetic ending for Snoke.
Svarec ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:11:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I have mixed feelings about this one. Overall, I enjoyed it. New characters are great, old characters are handled well and their interactions are done exactly as they should have been. Mark Hamill was AMAZING and I hope this opens some door for him, because I definitelly want to see more of him in major movies. The whole movie has excellent cinematography and CGI and it's amazing to look at.
Now for the things I don't like so much. Basically: the plot. First, it's way too long. The entire Finn & Rose storyline is completely pointless and slows down the movie. Could have done it without the whole hacking plot. Come to think if it, literally everyting with Resistence in first 90 minutes is basically pointless and it's just a filler until Rey comes back.
Can't help it, but Snoke is a joke. They established him well in the first movie as a mysterious, powerful villain, only to throw it all out. You can't just estabilish a villain so powerful & old without giving him some backstory on where he was during the original trilogy and how he rose to power. As for the twist, I legit did not see that coming and in hindsight, it was the best way the script could have taken. One minor pet peeve: it was a stupid decision to show us the lightsaber turning towards Snoke beforehand. The scene would have resonated much better if it wasn't hinted.
I also felt that the script is way too incoherent about character's abilities and power. Kylo and Rey keep shifting randomly from strong to weak back to strong again based on how the script needs it. Similar with Snoke. Also, how for god's sake is Hux still a general? The guy just keeps fucking up.
Probably my major problem with this movie: not much happens. Resistence and Order are basically in the same position as in the beginning, Finn and Poe have no development, basically the only thing that changes is the position of Rey and Kylo. Too little plot progress for a 2h30m movie.
bedbugsex ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:22:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hux seems less inept than Kylo as a leader actually.
howbloodygoodismilk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:41:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If we were to base our knowledge of The Emperor on only the original trilogy, weโd have no idea on his backstory either. Same with a lot of those original characters.
Jabba, Bobba Fett, Han, Obi Wan, Vader, Tarkin etc, which is why I canโt for the life of me, work out why everyone is so angry that every character hasnโt been fully fledged out or been given an illustrious backstory?
I mean theyโre literally making a Han Solo and Obi Wan movie because they have no back story, yet people literally hate this movie because Snoke is nothing but a bad guy that lost his head for a moment and got shanked.
Also, everyone seemed to be fine with Palpatine killing Plagueis in his sleep which is far more embarrassing then what happened to Snoke.
chili01 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:00:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Great visuals and I like most of the Cinematography.
Story and continuation has tons of problem though.
AteketA ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:16:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Best moment: Justin Theroux cameo
Snoke's arc: non-starter
Phasma's arc: complete fuckin non-starter (again)
The visuals were top-notch though
GeneralShowzer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:38:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought I knew the guy from The Leftovers lol.
Is there any inside joke behind the cameo from any of his movies?
zenwalrus ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:42:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My only comment.
https://i.imgur.com/WhcFQMx.jpg
TomTheJester ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 00:29:05 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That Leia moment was textbook in showing how to turn a great scene into a baffling awful one.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 03:46:32 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I purposely stayed away from any discussion on this film because I wanted an unbiased experience. I just left the theater. I hated it.
A lot of the movies have their flaws but they were great stores that allowed me to look past those flaws. I wish I could say the same thing for this movie. I hate it. Itโs bloated. The overall story is terrible with bits of interesting moments.
Now excuse me while I mourn what could have been.
Triffospon ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 11:42:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm absolutely gutted, I went into this film with really low expectations after the mediocre reviews but it was somehow so much worse than I could ever have imagined. I kept waiting for it to get good, but then it ended. The writing was terrible, the acting was sometimes abysmal, and I ended up hating characters that were actually likable from the force awakens. The only positive point of the film was Kylo.
[deleted] ยท 36 points ยท Posted at 12:20:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
? It has an 86% average on metacritic and 94% on rotten tomatoes with an average score of 8.2
TinMachine ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:48:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
lmao
NoxZ ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:28:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's rising, too. 95% on RT and still 86 on Metacritic. Feels sometimes like some Redditors are living in a giant bubble.
LelouchDSnow ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:54:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit is just hilarious. Its completely opposite to the real world.
Anyway wait for a week or so, when normal people (not crazy OT fanboys) see the movie you'll know how good it is.
Adamulos ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:05:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Most of the complaints are to plot not holding up, only then character motivations thrown away.
Zaldrizes ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:06:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What bad acting was there?
Dontshootimgay69 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:25:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This movie made Oscar Isaac unlikable. That shouldn't even be possible, yet it somehow did it. He is literally my favourite actor but here I was hoping that he would just die.
nashist ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 12:43:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why you had to do this to my Finn.....
KingCantona777 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:21:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And this cunt is doing a trilogy as well? Fuck me
theivoryserf ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:49:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Chill out. It's only a film.
Splaterpus7 ยท 42 points ยท Posted at 10:54:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Really enjoyed, beat ten bells out of Force Awakens.
i'm really unsure why Leia became the 2001 space odyssey baby. few too many extremely Disney jokes and didn't like Lukes departure. he should have gone in a blaze of glory, he deserved it.
LOVED the development of Kylo and Rey. loved that Snoke wasn't anyone else and that Reys parents weren't anyone.
was odd how it was essentially a chase movie, but I liked it, totally different from the others.
some gorgeous cinematography, especially the lightspeed missile silent scene was gorgeous and the shot of Luke walking through the exploded door with the sunset behind it absolutely stunning
Waterfall_Jason ยท 33 points ยท Posted at 11:18:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just gonna jump in on your Kylo comment, and say Adam Driver was incredible in this. When he did the little hand flick to pull Lukeโs saber and kill him, I found that so awesome
Splaterpus7 ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 11:26:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yea I really didn't like him in force awakens he was just a whiney little bitch. in this he was fantastic
turroflux ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 13:30:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well it was made apparent that he was supposed to be a whiny bitch, snoke calls him on it.
walkingtheriver ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:26:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Adam Driver has been one of my favorite actors since I saw him in Inside Llewyn Davis. Same goes for Oscar Isaac since Drive.
Akucera ยท 42 points ยท Posted at 11:51:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Exceptionally well delivered.
And very, very poorly thought out. It completely defeats the point of even having weaponry on starships at all. There's no point in having X-wings or A-wings, no point in having cruisers or star destroyers or even Death Stars - when all it takes to fuck up a fleet is a single, well aimed hyperdrive-equipped starship.
The lightspeed missile scene showed us - and, if the characters are smart, showed them - that a starship travelling at lightspeed can and will punch a hole straight through whatever's aimed at (and anything behind and/or near it, too). In the next film, the resistance and the first order should both completely do away with having fleets at all, and instead replace them with unmanned, hyperdrive-equipped suicide ships. Want to destroy an enemy cruiser? Use one of your hyperdrive-suicide ships to punch a hole straight through it. Want to destroy a fucking planet? Don't bother with a Death Star, use one of your hyperdrive-suicide ships to punch a hole straight through it. In the next film the first order should simply roll up at resistance / new republic neighbourhoods in carriers filled to the brim with hyperdrive-suicide ships and do a driveby on whole solar systems.
Hyperdrive-suicide ships are the new meta. There's no point to anything else.
EDIT: Ya the ships should be built to be remote-controllable.
SandyBadlands ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:09:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
X-Wings or A-Wings would not do nearly the same amount of damage. It seems that the damage was done as she was in the stretchy lightshow bit before actually entering lightspeed. Which means you have to be at just the right distance, which just so happens to be within weapons range of large cruisers. And you need time to plot the course, which you won't have when the ship you're attacking isn't distracted by trying to annihilate the last of the Resistance in defenseless ships.
Holdo took the opportunity to pull off a manouvre at just the right time at just the right place. The dangers of such an attack are readily apparent in-universe. They flag up she's jumping to hyperspace but ignore it because they assume she's gonna zip off, maybe thinking to double bluff them that there's nobody in the transports. When they realise she's turned around they know exactly what's she's gonna do and scramble to take her out. By that point it's too late.
Akucera ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:22:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
All R&D in the Star Wars universe should now focus on being able to allow cheap ships to consistently make those manouvres at just the right time and just the right place.
TheCaramelMan ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:38:48 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is even more funny when you consider how many people died and how many ships were lost in the space fight in the beginning. The Resistance lost like 70% of its fleet at the start of the movie and then in the end, one person in a giant ship was able to wipe out pretty everyone.
Akucera ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:24:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly; coulda just achieved the same with, say, the medical cruiser.
Splaterpus7 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 11:55:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
you must of course have someone to pilot the vessel whose happy to DIE......
that's kinda why this doesn't happen often
TheBirthing ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 12:39:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In a universe with programmable intelligent droids this isn't an excuse.
Splaterpus7 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 13:17:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
the fact Laura Dern (cant remember her characters name) had to stay behind to keep the ship going shows, for some reason this isn't feasible or possible in some way
InfernalCombustion ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:12:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The fact Holdo had to stay behind to keep the ship going shows the director and the writers were lazy and didn't give too much thought or effort about the plot.
Splaterpus7 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:18:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I disagree, id take the whole auto pilot or leave a droid as lazy this had some impact and meant something
Akucera ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 11:59:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Autopilot.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:22:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Doesn't seem to exist in the Starwars universe? Otherwise why would she have needed to stay on the ship in the first place.
thecookiedojo ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 13:40:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Could just use droids.
Minscota ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 12:39:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Autopilot It exists and is seen in the movies in the first 6.
Remember young anikan flying the space ship? He had to take it off auto pilot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZXcWV0S7fo
terrefpb ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:49:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
to 'raise the stakes' . There are also Droids they could use to pilot the kamikaze ships
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 13:09:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If every faction would just do away with regular ships/weaponry and exclusively start using hiperdrive-suicide ships then Star Wars would just become a cold war themed political thriller/drama lol.
Think this is just supposed to be a one time thing that's not really see as a viable option in-universe to destroy enemy ships.
Akucera ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 06:23:08 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Then it's a plot hole.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 12:54:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It Starwars, plotholes will be plugged.
"Parsecs" being a measurement of distance instead of time just meant that the Kessel run was filled with blackholes.
The Deathstar having a hole in it which allowed it to be destroyed was because the architect wanted it destroyed.
I'm sure in a year or two there will be some short story about why Snoke's ships shields failed in the moments just before the Rebel Ship rammed them.
Maybe it was because of Rey's and Kylo's duel, they tore apart the lightsaber moments before the ship hit. Maybe there was a shockwave.
allmymoneygoestokpop ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:04:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
WHY would you spend all the time and resources building these ships if youโre just going to destroy them intentionally? The Resistance do not have infinite resources especially after the Republic was destroyed.
Akucera ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:13:03 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
...because they instakill first order fleets?
malarky0 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:40:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is a problem in almost all space-based science fiction that has faster-than or lightspeed travel. Even an X-wing could cause civilization-ending levels of damage to a planet.
Akucera ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:21:22 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
See, I'd always assumed that, because nobody ever used hyperdrives as weapons in the Star Wars universe, hyperdrives pulled the ship into some sort of parallel dimension ("hyperspace") where they could travel at faster than light speeds and wouldn't interact much with surrounding matter.
Then in Star Wars 7, when Han makes a point about having to exit hyperspace at just the right time to avoid blowing up the Falcon while still arriving at Starkiller Base, I assumed that maybe hyperdrives made a bubble of warped space around the ship that let them move faster than light while still retaining the same kinetic energy. This would explain why hyperdrives aren't used as weapons, and why starships have to be careful about where and when they jump.
And then in Star Wars 8, they completely wipe both my theories off the table. Hyperdrives can be used as weapons as they do propel ships at FTL speeds and those ships can interact with ordinary matter.
Which begs the question; why didn't Han just hyperdrive the Falcon into Starkiller Base in episode 7? Or if the Falcon is too good for that ('that' being saving the fucking galaxy), why not use any other expendable ship and droid pilot?
malarky0 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:43:29 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I believe you're right, in that hyperdrive doesn't work like traditional FTL travel. From my recollection, they have to avoid large objects in hyperspace because of the gravitational displacement, not so much the physical mass. Since at the speeds they travel the galaxy in a starship, I'd imagine colliding with a single atom would cause cosmic levels of energy.
Waoeden ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 14:41:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
5/10 better than force awakens (0/10) but still a flawed movie
Spoilers.
Good points: - Better acting. Daisy riddley and Carrier fisher got their act ( heh) together
Rey in island 'arc' .
Dueling scenes
Space battle scenes
The movie had some entertaining moments but all in all it was set back by the major bad points that are
Too many unfunny jokes. Stop it. Right now. Only marvel does it right. Everyone else it is just a stupid cringy scene that breaks the tension unecessairily
Too many cute animals/robots. STOP. Ewoks were irritating in 83, now we have ewoks EVERYWHERE. Even the new r2d2 is a ewok
Evil bb8. Facepalm
Gradma Leia FLYING THROUGH SPACE. Multiple facepalm. I actually laughed at the movies
-Snoke. Who is he? Where does he come from? What is he? Who cares. Lets just kill him after 3 scenes without any backstory.
The plot. Thin as a paper and it seems to be going to a predictable ending where Kylo and Rey face off again and we know hr is going to lose because she is stronger than him.
By the way why she is stronger than him? Ow yeah. Political agenda. Rey is better, as a character , in this movie. But she is still a mary sue.
Casino " arc". Most boring 30 minutes in a blockbuster movie ever.
That is all i can remember. When the othrt issues come back to me i will edit this.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:21:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Waoeden ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:25:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The force awakens was too similar to a new hope.
And everything felt rushed because the characters where always running. The ''friendships'' felt shoehorned and the acting was absolutely horrible.
And death star. Another one. Blowed up again.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:08:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Even more of a ma-rey sue than the last film.
Waoeden ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:47:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ow yeah
Finn is still the worst sw character ever. Even more annoying than jar jar binks
Rose character was super annoying. Her last scenes before she almost died ( gosh why the dont kill characters for a change? Besides the main cast) had her delivering one of the worst placed lines that i know of
" We win not by killing what we hate. But by saving what we love". Or something like this
Multiple face palm
xdeltax97 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:50:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Iโm severely disappointed with how they basically did away with Phasma. Her backstory set her up as such an intriguing character. Besides that, the movie was wonderful and I really liked it.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:32:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
knight-errant1 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:57:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree that this movie had great ups and downs, I'll list some things that I haven't seen discussed much yet.
Cons
Pros
LDKCP ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 21:14:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The fact Admiral Ackbar was your favourite character means you are probably too invested to enjoy any future Star Wars.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 02:13:23 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
montell088 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 02:17:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They decided it was one of the best Star Wars movies ever months and months ago. They can't be impartial.
Pyronaut44 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 02:24:25 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Until I watched it I was expecting one of the best SW movies too. Words struggle to express how let down I am right now.
To think that Lucasfilm were so impressed they've given Rian a whole trilogy fills me with genuine fear.
montell088 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:28:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well, this is the 6th bad Star Wars movie in a row I've seen (to me anyway), so it's old hat by now.
radwimps ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:23:48 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean the thread has 8k comments so it's hard to read them all, but there's plenty of criticism that I've read too. Honestly feels half and half there when you read peoples overall impressions, which is surprising.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:59:38 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You can't be reading the same thread.. also to accuse those in that sub of not seeing it is hilarious as they are generally the first ones to go.
Pyronaut44 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:22:20 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Read my comment again, I said 'seeing this movie for what it is', which means recognising somethings true nature/state etc.
loco1876 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:45:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
i liked watching it but it was so dumb, hated the boring space running way plot and casino, flying leia, fake luke and him dying.
only good shit was , rays sexy face
and snoke ray ren scene, even though snoke death was dumb
Sisiwakanamaru ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 11:25:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I like this movie, I think it is because this movie gave many characters their moments to shine.
Admiral Holdo was like a boss when she did kamikaze, the people in my theater were cheered when that happened.
[deleted] ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 12:04:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I hated that moment after thinking about it for too long. It makes space battles irrelevant because it turns out a hyperdrive and a suicidal pilot is all you need to take down starships. And it should have been Ackbar because he deserved better and some of us already care about him
SandyBadlands ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:00:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
After 9/11 proved to be so effective why aren't all terrorist attacks just people flying planes into things?
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:04:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because terrorists don't have the resources to acquire planes on a regular basis
SandyBadlands ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:16:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Resistance is down to a handful of ships. Sure seems like they don't have the capacity to buy a bunch of hyperdrive kamikaze ships big enough to do some damage.
Or maybe there's just more to it than that.
bedbugsex ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:01:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly, you'd think the first order would be doing it all the time Jihad style given how expendable stormtrooper lives are.
ATLSM ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:17:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I imagine bombs/missiles are less expensive than unmanned tie bombers or star destroyers with a one time use.
Maybe the US and the rest of the world should've learnt from the kamikaze in Pearl Harbor and developed their airforce to be one time use only.
FletchM ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 11:59:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Someone in my cinema must have been making their own sound effects the whole movie. They let out a loud "zwooooop" just as the the scene went completely silent and cruiser cut through the destroyer. Everyone burst out laughing
mvals ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:05:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I really liked Holdo from that last Leia novel. She was fun. However, I think that moment would've been even more powerful if that ultimate sacrifice was made by a known character with a larger background in the universe. Admiral Ackbar would've been a fine choice for that heroic death, with far more emotional impact.
Spawn3323 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 13:53:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The throne room battle with the imperial guards has to be one of the coolest looking scenes in the franchise.
Elcatro ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:24:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I really wanted Rey & Kylo to join forces, would have made for a very interesting third film if both sides were portrayed sympathetically and you weren't sure who to root for.
lakelandman ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:34:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
princess leia did a line of coke off of an asteroid
that scene was ad-libbed by carrie fisher
FuujinSama ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:26:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I watched this movie, and I am very confused. I feel like it was a good movie but the last half just felt disappointing. The fact that essentially, if the main characters in the rebel plot had stayed put. Or the replacing admiral woman had just explained the damn plan, it would've worked. It just grinds too much with me despite loving everything until that resolution.
I've seen books pull off that sort of your actions fucked everything up plot brilliantly. Well of Ascension still gives me chills. But this movie goes with fail arcs while not being a tragedy in tone and it kind of left me unsatisfied.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:36:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's the thing. It's a pretty good movie (as a stand alone) but does it really make sense?
Some great scenes though.
Calciumee ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:02:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was... ok.
Iโll give a it a few days to think about it, but at the moment, TFA was far better and not even a patch to Empire/Jedi!
ParryMeBaby ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:56:37 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm confused. Is Rey a nobody or not? She said she had been to this 'island' in dreams. Out of all the lives in the galaxy she is randomly put in this position of power to change events of the future. If she has the same potential as Ben then who is to say others don't? Remember she found the force before anyone told her about it. She didn't see anyone use force pull, she just did it in TFA.
Also what the fuck is Snoke. He used the force like it's nothing as if the film is saying this guy is powerful. He bound two people, pushed a man around like he's nothing from his chamber and is able to read your mind and extract any information. So how the fuck does he not read Ben's intention? He literally says he knows what Ben is about to do. Yet he dies to it still?
There's so much wrong with this film ffs. I would go on but for now I think I need a second viewing to understand why it was the way it was. Credit to the Yoda scene though, that was pretty smart.
EDIT: Also can someone explain why Ben is retarded enough to think it was the real Luke when he ignited the saber that Ben and Rey tore apart using the force 10 minutes prior to the confrontation. ?????? Disney ??????
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:04:32 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Luke could easily have had a different lightsaber, lukes one literally seems to be the most basic and common type and colour
ParryMeBaby ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:56:39 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh come on, the first time Ben saw it in TFA he said the saber belongs to him. Don't tell me he thought it was a different one because Luke was holding it.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:59:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
SwordLaker ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:58:00 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This thread is early audiences. The movie has been out for less than two days.
jumpyg1258 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:59:00 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I now understand why Daisy Ridley was so excited to have JJ Abhrams back to direct IX, this was bad.
LordOfBadaBing ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 03:37:52 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This was not a good film, folks. I spent the last few hours trying desperately to defend it but cannot. They used us by abusing the characters and themes we loved. This may even be South Park โthey raped Lukeโ level stuff.
noobule ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 12:21:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I get why people didn't like this, but I thought it was very good. I felt like the part with the slow space 'seige' was too contrived and awkward and too complicated for Star Wars (they literally say "we're running low on Fuel Resources" at one point) but I thought everything around it was great
I don't know why everyone felt so uncomfortable about the Casino bit, my brother didn't like it either.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 12:34:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The casino felt too Earth-like. We're used to seeing humans in suits and slot machines, I don't want to recognize settings in a galaxy far far away. Didn't help that the subplot was a waste of time
ScruffTheJanitor ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:59:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeh but it's star wars. A massive galaxy with all types of planets and creatures, anything can be possible.
Also used to seeing humans in bars drinking, so what's so different about casinos?
_AllahGold_ ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:54:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Endor is the fucking Redwood Forest in California.
Ratachu ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:03:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Naboo feels too Earth too. The same with Clowd City.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:40:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The last good Star Wars movie was 37 years ago...
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:21:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:17:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
ROTS was awesome though! Phantom Menace was good if you block out Jar Jar. Episode 2 is my least favorite, but still better than R1 and TFA.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:53:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nah. Revenge of the Sith 12 years ago.
hotrodfantasy ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:14:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What a hot mess. Worse than the Force Awakens. So much cringe, so much "WTF".
Al89nut ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:15:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There is more TPM in this than is good - even a Yippee
Shenziepop ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 00:50:23 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Help me J.J Abrams, youโre my only hope.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:30:12 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
you must be truly desperate to go to jar jar for help
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:00:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
traject_ ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:19:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Both reaction threads on /r/movies and /r/starwars are negative. I'm surprised too; from the leaks I knew a good portion of hardcore fans wouldn't be happy but given great reviews I thought the response would have majority positive.
Blacknarcissa ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:36:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Same, I loved it.
iBaconized ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:31:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Reading these discussions without seeing the movie yet (this is actually pretty spoiler free thread to be honest, but I came in expecting spoilers):
Is this basically a Guardians of the Galaxy Star Wars movie? Sounds like it.
Minscota ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:33:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
There isnt much to spoil tbh. Nothing was answered. Beside blue milk origin.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:33:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just go in with low expectations, and you might enjoy it
iBaconized ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:47:35 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just saw it and it was awesome. Not sure why this thread is cancer.
highway_robbery82 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:01:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There is a lot of humour in it, there's always been moments of it in Star Wars but here it started to undercut some of the moments which I'd prefer were taken seriously - in a similar way to parts of Thor Ragnarok (since the Marvel comparisons are popular!)
Chewie + porgs? Sure! Poor downtrodden Caretakers? Great! Mad BantzTM between Poe and Hux, and ill-timed quips by Luke and Finn? Too much.
ConfusedAlgernon ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:03:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Could I get a cliffs notes version of the plot if this is spoilers anyway? I'm not sure I'm gonna go see it at the cinemas.
wicket42 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:08:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs the first order! Run away! Slowly! For like, 18 hours! Do we have an escape plan? No! But secretly yes! But Iโm not telling you for no reason! Ok well I have my own plan! Oh no your plan got everyone killed! Well howโs Rey doing?
Hi Luke train me? No. Please? No. Please? No. Hey Luke, itโs R2 D2! Will you train me now?
OK.
So Luke, why Kylo so bad? Oh I saw his future and he was probably definitely maybe gonna do some bad shit so I considered killing him...while standing over his bed...with an ignited lightsaber.
Hey Luke, that doesnโt sound like you! What happened to confronting the darkness in people and redeeming then? Wasnโt that your whole bag?
Hey fuck off rey you can leave now.
Hey kylo howโs it goin? Wanna go talk to snoke? Oh shit did you just cut snoke in half. Fuck this Iโm outie.
Hey Hux, wanna go all Hoth on these 15 rebel survivors? Letโs get all our shit down there to kill them ok? Iโm supreme leader kylo now btw.
Hi kylo Iโm Luke but not really Iโm just astral projecting haha youโre a jerk kylo. K Iโm just gonna straight up die now. Bye!
Iโm Princess Leia and I die 3 times in this movie and somehow Iโm still going to be in the next one even though Carrie is dead (rip)
Neknoh ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:22:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Leia force-pulled the door toward herself, she even has her hand out, however, since the door is attached to this enormous gigatonnage spaceship, and she's in space, she gets pulled toward the door instead.
RoryJohn ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:07:05 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What I found confusing was that Luke agreed with (just to be safe
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:36:19 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Luke agreed to teach Rey but saw the darkness in her first meditation lesson so didn't want to teach her further. When he met with Yoda he said that she had all that she would need. (I mean that is because she nicked the sacred texts but we don't find that out for a bit)
RoryJohn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:17:09 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ah yes ok, thank you! I read it wrong as Yoda trying to persuade Luke to train her further. I also wasn't sure if I caught the reveal of Rey rescuing the texts as it seemed like such a quick moment. Thanks again!
CarvelCake1 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:14:00 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I really didn't get the "let's hide in the metal planet-base thingy" plan. Couldn't they have just destroyed the First Order ship with the lightspeed crash in the first place? I mean a bunch of ships were destroyed on the way - thousands of people probably killed. Why didn't they abandon ship immediately, destroy the ship chasing them, and save all those lives?
Al89nut ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:14:40 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why didn't the First Order ships just jump a few hundred miles ahead of the fleeing Resistance fleet?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:20:20 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Don't think the idea occurred to her until the time when she did it
Halfie4Life ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:47:27 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah the plan was to save the pods to the base to call for re-reinforcements. It was going to work but finn's new friend sold them out.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:37:25 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Talk about being divisive
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:16:13 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
schleibenschliben2 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:45:17 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
goodfellas
Dosca ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:09:32 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Didnโt they announce that the movie was finished like 3 months ahead of release? Like that was a good thing that the final cut was good to go? This movie couldโve used a re-edit to make the story MUCH more cohesive
TyrannoFan ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:25:22 on December 19, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I went in with few expectations. I did not spend hours theorizing. Hell, I'm not even that crazy about Star Wars; more of a Star Wars fan than any random movie-goer, but not as much as a fan on say /r/StarWars for example. I just watched it with my friends.
While I initially enjoyed it, and still look back on various scenes rather fondly, I feel like this movie can be summed up as a waste of time and potential. There were a lot of things that happened in the movie that had no consequence or payoff (like the Code-breaker subplot). Lots of strange character decisions, some made seemingly to cram in some sort of weird MCU-style joke, like when Luke completely threw away the lightsabre in the beginning of the film. It was so surreal to see that.
Plot points from TFA were completely dropped too. No, expecting Snoke to be more than just a throwaway random bad guy was not the audience's fault. He was set up to be more than that, but instead was just thrown away. Why? What was the point of him then? It's clear Rian Johnson just did not want Snoke to be a part of the trilogy, and would not have included him in VII had he made it, so he just gave him this lame send-off. And will Rey really get no explanation as to her power level? Her parents being nobodies is fine, Anakin came out of a random shit-hole as well. But why is she so powerful from the start without any prior training? Why does she only take hours or a couple of days to learn how to lift dozens of rocks, when Luke took way longer just to lift a single light ship? So bizarre, and here I was hoping they would explain something that made her less of a Mary Sue. Instead I got the opposite. :/
What was with the whole Rose and Finn thing? Even Finn himself seemed super confused when she went in for that kiss at the end. And what was her reasoning again? "We fight not to kill the ones we hate, but protect the ones we love"? What, protect the ones you love by T-boning them with a fucking spaceship? Sure. I mean, I didn't want him to die, but the way he was pulled out of that situation and Rose's justification for what she did was so retarded and cheesy.
I enjoyed moments of the movie, such as Leia's force usage (even though it could have been executed a bit less... strangely), Luke's character overall, the lightspeed kamikaze etc. but as a whole I just can't like it. I might rewatch this a few months down the line and see what I think then, but for now I'm just underwhelmed, disappointed, and just sad at the waste that this movie ended up being.
Doglatine ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 17:24:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Apparently I'm one of the few people who really liked this movie. I was really unimpressed with TFA, quite liked Rogue One, but this was my favourite of the new movies. A few things I really liked -
lots of shades of grey. Benicio del Toro's character emphasized this, but it was there in the headbutting between Poe and the Resistance leaders, and in the tension between Snoke and Kylo.
I loved the telepresence scenes with Kylo and Rey. It built them a weird relationship that paid off later.
I liked the pacing. Star Wars can sometimes feel like a whistlestop CGI driven tour of random planets over vague timescales, but there was a real unity and focus to the action here, as events play out over a few days at most.
I liked how they handled Luke's character a lot. He's a grumpy cynical old man. His acerbic humor fitted his character, whereas a lot of the jokes in TFA felt gratuitous.
Poe Dameron is becoming a much more distinct and interesting character. He's the Maverick archetype, but they also explored the flipside of his aggression and daring, namely that it doesn't always pay off. L
I liked the fact that Rey made some stupid fuck ups and was the butt of jokes. Previously she'd been a bit too much of a Mary Sue for my liking.
The fact that her parents were nobodies was a lovely twist and much more in keeping with the grounded, slighter grimmer tone of this.
Fewer plot holes than usual for a JJ Abrams movie. The only one that bugged me was the hyperspace suicide run (why don't they use this more often?).
Loads more I could say but overall I was very impressed.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:00:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Man the negativity in here is bonkers. Anyone with anything remotely positive to say is downvoted.
PeterLeroy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:58:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Downvoted because you liked a mostly disliked movie. Typical /r/movies stuff, I'll get downvoted too.
It's not a JJ movie but a Rian Johnson one (: .
Iamnotopen2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:09:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Dude I don't understand this thread. Let me add to the hyperbole of this thread: Star Wars fans are the worst people ever.
PeterLeroy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:07:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well I don't recall who said that but a universe created by someone isn't his property, meaning that Star Wars is owned by both the fans and Lucas in a way that he can't mess things up without us unable to yell because it's HIS property.
That said, I think the problem with SW is that now people think it's theirs. You had TFA that was too much of ANH, people disliked it. Now you've got a movie trying new things, people disliked it. And somehow Rogue managed to get some love.. I don't understand how people think..
I'm not saying that all SW fans are stupid, just saying that there's little to not chance for the new series to succeed because everyone has It's own expectations.. Like, people are disappointed about Snoke and Rey' s parents just because they speculates too much.. They had way too many expectations..
I went to see it without any expectations and loved the huge "Who gives a fuck about your theories?". Even if Snoke was someone and Rey parents Skywalkers people would have complained.. That's how it is.
The only problem is that there is actual flaws in the movie, not discussed a lot here.. Go check r/star wars, it's way smarter than here.
howbloodygoodismilk ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:32:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So many salty people down voting you, itโs hilarious.
The relationship between Rey and Kyle is a big positive for me, canโt wait to see where that goes.
harraseda ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:04:54 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Glad to see you liked it! Wasn't a huge fan myself but hey. I disagree with you over the timescale point; for me it felt like the Rey/Luke plot took far longer than the main Resistance one, yet they met up in the end. Didn't sit right for me.
mariusmule ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 03:18:31 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Would it be possible to file a false advertising complaint? Disney deliberately teased a bunch of mysteries with no intent of actually answering any of them.
Schaafwond ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:31:51 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I liked it too. This movie just straight up didn't give a fuck and I think that's a good thing. I feel like everyone was shitting on TFA because it was too much of the same thing, and on TLJ because it's too different. Some people just can't be pleased.
GeneralShowzer ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 11:00:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
The high-points of the movie are really good, but I don't think they're enough because they're dragged down by really mediocre and useless subplots and characters that make the bulk of the movie. Finn / Rose / Phasma/ Laura Dern , Del Toro, nothing but mediocrity I did not care about at all. I was suprised how much I don't care whether Finn lives or dies, because all he did this movie was got 90% of the rebels killed and did some property damage to rich people
The way it all ties up together is also a mess, it's more like some overwritten modern blockbuster like Transformers sequel instead of the simple classic Star Wars stories.
It's not as original as critics say it is, TFA was almost a copy of A New Hope, this takes the structures of both ESB and ROTJ, but a convoluted nonsensical spaghetti version of those movies.The Jedi being arrogant twits who brought their own demise was in the prequel trilogy, I mean whatever you think of this it's all George. Also the casino weapon profiteers was like extremely obvious parallel or metaphor about the real world, George also did that in the prequels and the senate democracy.
It got really tiring how they make asspul after aspull on how they survive, I mean they start of in a hopeless situation then there are millions of ass-pulls one of the worst one beings that a ship that goes trough hyperspace can take out an entire fleet, it left me puzzled for 10 minutes about why they didn't do that when they had more ships, and smaller fighters can also do this, or why didn't they do this in any of the last six movies if it's so easy to disable and wreck a fleet
izmebenji ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:12:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rey and Kyloโs fight against the guards is still giving me the shivers. Possibly one of the best moments in Star Wars history imo
Lurksville ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:27:04 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Worst one out of the three recent releases. World building felt poor, no memorable new planets/ races. Needed better duels and less pointless subplots/ animals. Also what the fuck was the point in Snoke?
TheJoshider10 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 13:00:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I went into The Last Jedi incredibly hyped. Rian Johnson directing and writing, with the studio having so much faith in him that he gets his own trilogy. Reviews claiming it as the best Star Wars movie of all time, or close to, with critical acclaim? I'm fucking ready. And it lived up to my expectations.
This movie has a lot of issues, but the good parts are so good that for me they make up for any problems I have. They are easy to look past because of what the movie accomplishes overall, but anyway here is a breakdown of the good and bad for me:
Story
To be honest, pretty weak. One thing I noticed is how in every single Star Wars movie before this, the crawl sets us up for something that happens in the first act. Whereas this time, the crawl sets up the whole movie. The whole movie is "the resistance tries making a daring escape..." and this is such a small scale story for Star Wars. It's like an episode of a TV show, everything from "we need a codebreaker" to the Canto Blight stuff and back again. I'm happy it wasn't a Death Star but the fact that an opening battle was essentially the whole movie was weird for me. I can definitely see some fan edits cutting down this part of the movie. But the more I think of it the way the three stories combine in the finale is wonderful (even though i'm confused on the timelines? Like was Rey's stuff happening at a completely different time to the Resistance stuff and they just put them overlapping for the sake of balance?) and makes up for the slight jarring switches during the first two acts.
Thankfully Rey's storyline is so much more engaging. I loved literally every single scene and I could have done with even more. Hopefully there's some great deleted scenes on the Blu-Ray for the movie. That scene where Rey and Kylo work together is probably my favourite scene in all of Star Wars. It was such a fucking hype moment.
Characters
Without a doubt the most character focused movie in the franchise. This is why i'm not entirely bothered about the story being weak, because the characters are the true star of the show here. Kylo Ren as far as i'm concerned is the best villain in Star Wars. Better than my boy Grievous, Palpatine, and even Darth Vader himself. He's complex, he's torn, he's wonderfully acted and this movie built on a solid foundation in The Force Awakens, making him quite morally ambiguous and unsure of whether to love him or hate him. The connection with Rey was constantly engaging and their interactions were so wonderfully done. I began actually wanting a romance between them, which is a credit to Johnson's work here. Rey's story fizzling out to "your parents are nobody" feels like a mislead but also a very acceptable thing to happen in a movie where fan theories are thrown out the window for unconventional pay offs. Daisy Ridley is much better here and the stage is now set for her and Kylo on opposite ends of the finale.
Unfortunately the Resistance stuff just felt like a tacked on solo TV special. I already like Finn, Rose was alright but her presence did feel a bit like Rian just loved the actress so put her in the movie a lot and Poe was sort of gaining experience and building into a leader but once again this whole part is so separate from the main action that it feels jarring.
The First Order stuff was a bit strange for me. I didn't expect Hux to become such of a joke after the last movie, it felt a little too Marvel here especially that opening. I'm curious as to what's actually happened with Snoke but something tells me this is far from the end of his story and fans annoyed that we don't know anything about him are just being reactionary. For all we know we'll find out in the finale and at least some explanations will be given. There has to be otherwise the set up from the first two movies would just be jarring.
Carrie Fisher shined as Leia and as the movie was playing out I became more and more confident that the next movie would end with her funeral after a time skip. I don't see how else they can do it tastefully. Mark Hamill was fantastic here and I loved what happened with his character. I doubt that this will be the last time we see Luke Skywalker.
Tone
A bit conflicted here. For me there were far too many easy ha ha jokes that are straight from a Marvel movie. I think with how dark the movie was going in some places they didn't want that to alienate the general audience and so threw them in to keep them happy. But I am glad that overall a serious moment wasn't ruined by a joke. The only time I felt it was really off putting was when Kylo was topless and Rey mentioned about him covering up. It took me out the scene and was just an unnecessary S E X U A L T E N S I O N plug when the rest of the dialogue, directing and cinematography was doing the job building their connection.
But overall i'm not too bothered as they made sure the emotional moments stayed emotional. Ruining them with cheap jokes like the Marvel movies tend to do massively affects the movies for me and thankfully Star Wars didn't do that.
Overall
A very flawed but ambitious movie where the things it gets right far outweigh any negatives I have with the movie. It's the Star Wars movie I've been wanting, something that defies expectations for characters and storylines and forges its own path for the next movie to build off of. Just like Empire Strikes back it feels inconsequential but has major character implications for the finale. Just like Empire Strikes Back it receives criticism on release (although this time there's critical acclaim) but will it become a classic in the way Empire Strikes Back is? Who knows, but for now that's all I care about is seeing how the story concludes in Episode 9 and what Rian Johnson has in mind for his new trilogy where he is able to go even more out there with Star Wars.
Nachti ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:25:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This about sums up my feelings as well. I'm sad to see the people here be so negative about it - do you really want another JJ Abrams by-the-numbers TFA-type movie where nothing surprises you?
MoonMan997 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:01:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well this thread is a real depressing read
I personally loved the movie, I'm sorry all you guys didn't
FrenchCinema ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:03:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What did you love about it? Hope that doesn't come across as condescending
MoonMan997 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 23:18:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
The film is gorgeous for starters, props to Johnson and director of photography for creating such a gorgeous movie
The film also took risks that I feel were justified. Kylo's progression was perfect, striking down Snoke in the aim of building a new order around himself. I also actually liked there were no revelations with Rey and Snoke. Why do they have to be linked to someone else, they should stand on their own.
The action was also amazing, some of the best stuff in the whole saga and incredibly entertaining. Was not expecting Fury Road in space essentially. And the film was an incredibly emotional ride, commenting on legacy and what we leave behind. It's what Star Wars is all about.
I will say the Finn/Rose stuff was the weakest part of the film. I still very much enjoyed it but it didn't really lead to anything (expect maybe with the balance of the force existing in nature).
I think the biggest point dividing people is the use of the force, it is a very different portrayal but I'm good with it. I think we see for the first time the full potential that has been hinted at in the past. Leia clearly has power and seeing her harnessing it is a dream. But clearly she is not in full control, more is at play. Luke as powerful as he is cannot tap on fully to the extreme power, I assume the trauma of projecting himself and the blow from Kylo combined to kill him. I didn't see it as a writing crutch, Luke states it's not just for the Jedi to possess and this maybe the start of this evolution.
The movie just ticked nearly all the boxes for me but I can see why people were disappointed. This film was a very bold step and they just went for it. Maybe it will not be as good on a rewatch, we shall see.
Edit: a word
FrenchCinema ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:36:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The problem with snoke is hes nobody. The guy has no back story and isnt even an imposing threat. I understand leia has the force but seeing her turn into superman in space was ridiculous. Of course i respect your opinion i like films that arent popular too
ScruffTheJanitor ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:30:01 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Was Snoke ever planned to be anything else?
It's the fans with the the theories and discussion that built him up to more than the movies ever showed him to be.
FrenchCinema ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:16:27 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If your going to introduce the top level villain they could at least explain who he is
ScruffTheJanitor ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:47:35 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The emperor in OT
outrider567 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 12:14:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
SPOILERS--I can't believe how many bad reviews for the film are on IMDB, mostly having to do with Finn/Rose getting nothing done but getting most of the rebels killed, Snoke dying way too early, Princess Leia Mary Poppins in space, and some said there was too much dumb humor in the film, making it feel almost like Spaceballs at times
CallMeDutch ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:57:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought them screwing up big-time was refreshing.
Blokeofbludhaven ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:23:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was pissed there was no proper lightsaber fight, whats that about
joed2605 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:19:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Overall the movie was probably the weirdest star wars I've seen because it has some of the most epic moments in the franchise but is remained lighthearted and fun at points being easily the funniest. While the tone wasn't as consistent as TFA it was way more ambitious and unique which is all we wanted from it really.
LoganTakesPictures ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:30:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
One of my biggest questions is where is Lukeโs green lightsaber? We know he had it a few years prior to the movie, based off the flash back, but where did it go? Do you think we will ever get an answer or does it not really matter?
_Ishmael ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:36:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I want to know why he was using Rey's lightsaber in the fight with Kylo Ren despite the fact we saw it get destroyed in the previous scene.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:19:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Pavleena ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:33:47 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This. Luke seemed to be able to project himself however he wanted. With less wrinkles and better hair:)
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:13:06 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone else DEFINITELY see Gareth Edwardsโs? definitely saw him!
Blacknarcissa ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 22:30:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I really loved it. I enjoyed the new characters and the time spent working on Kylo and Rey's relationship. Reminded me very much of a YA series called The Grisha Trilogy where the 'Darkling' visits the protagonist (who's power is light) in visions and they try to help/manipulate each other.
I was so hyped when they fought Snoke's henchmen together and would genuinely have liked them to team up properly but I guess that would've left the series without a proper villain after Snoke went.
I don't think we'll get a "ren-demption" anymore... I dont know. But he did seem to still be on the precipice with the final vision with Rey at the end.
Snoke said that bridge was due to him. It lasted even after his death?
Is Rey shutting the door on him meant to be indicative of that being the last chance she'll give him?
I thought that fight at the end and Luke's death was amazing but I'm still incredibly raw about it. Carrie has died and now we won't have Mark either.
DancersaurusRex ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:08:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Totally agree re: Grisha - I hope they keep that up in the next one, and that the door shutting wasn't symbolic of it ceasing
BearWrap ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:49:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just amazing the amount of hate and disappointment in this thread.
Siglyr ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:40:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I really don't understand. If you like the movie you're downvotes to hell.
BearWrap ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:46:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I know right, I saw it tonight and really liked it for the most part. It certainly doesn't play it safe. I'm guessing a lot of people got too attached to the fan theories that the actual answers feel like a slap in the face.
Siglyr ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:59:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There are a lot of comments about "Paid critics". It's just so ridiculous.
IsMiseBart ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:17:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just seen it today. I thought it was excellent buuuuut, there was a few things that rubbed me the wrong way. The lightsaber duels were... underwhelming and what is up with Snoke? He just got killed off, like that?
wolfgang187 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:56:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What lightsaber duel?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:04:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
the fake one at the end (Kylo Ren & Luke)
IsMiseBart ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:59:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly!
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:59:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A lot of people hitting the nail on the head regarding the issues with the characters and plot but my god was Snoke's CGI awful. Jesus imagine looking at that and letting that make the final cut. Should of just put him behind a opaque screen. The only scene worse was Leia flying in space lol
KidneyKeystones ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:06:21 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Who's Snoke?
Dunno
Who's Rey?
Nobody
6/10, save your money.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:20:31 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
TFA never hinted she was anybody to be fair. I was more bothered that they had to waste screen time on her family after it was resolved in TFA (Maz telling Rey to forget her old family and accept the new one)
Snoke though....WHAT THE FUCK WERE THEY THINKING!!!!
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:25:14 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They kinda did by making her such a gifted user of the Force, we all assumed she had some Jedi training or some reason she was left. Since she's nobody, she's just a Mary Sue
Also I agree with you on Snoke lol
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:38:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Literally, the only people we have met that the family matters has been the Skywalkers
And guess what, Rey being nobody parallels Anakin quite nicely.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:37:58 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I'm not mad she has the Force. Just that she learned advanced tricks so quickly
kjlhkj2389 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:56:27 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
https://www.change.org/p/the-walt-disney-company-bring-back-george-lucas-to-star-wars
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:29:36 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think it will take one more bomb with episode 9 to get people to fully come around. But I think it'd be really cool if the first thing lucas did was to promise to keep the gritty cinematography of the OT.
JDFreeman ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:10:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
85% Brilliant.
The Good. That first scene with the bomber run was phenomenal and took it right back to the ww2 movie feel. The scene with Luke vs the entire First Order ground forces also superb- extremely Kurosowa or Spaghetti Western. Training scenes with conflicted luke, battles, puppet yoda! personal interactions and character growth all perfectly handled. And a lot of that missing world structure from Force Awakens was fixed and it now feels like a much better realised world.
The bad. At 2 and a half hours this film was half an hour too long and everyone has spotted the same 'problem' half hour. WTF with planet Casino Royale. With it's awful CGI and ropey look, it was completely bizarre to run off to a planet mission whilst being chased by Empire. it just feels forced (sorry). Then there's the whole floating space wizzard Leia. Enough said.
The Ugly. Too many cringey jokes and the very last scene had more cheese than a fondue factory explosion. But on the whole it was pretty damn good and the good far outweighed the bad. Here's hoping for a two hour fan edit.
CommanderStark ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:16:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There is a lot to digest from this movie, but holy hell, I thought that was amazing. Not everything works. But there are scenes, shots, and lines from this movie that rank up there with the best of the franchise.
I need to see it again. Right now it ranks up there with Empire and ANH for me. Can't say I understand some of the hate for this movie--there's a lot in there that challenges the themes of the saga but that's what was needed.
This is the eighth entry in a franchise that feels dramatically different yet still part of the universe we know and love. Johnson gives the central character and incredibly epic send-off and sets the board up for the end game in IX.
I don't know where we go from here and that's the first time in years I've felt that way about a Star Wars film.
highway_robbery82 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:24:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What plot threads are you looking forward to seeing develop in IX?
Genuine question, because my enthusiasm has nosedived after TLJ and I need some positivity!
CommanderStark ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:29:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How does whatโs left of the Resistance rally against the First Order?
Does Kylo/Ben fulfill an Emperor or Vader role? Can he be turned?
Does the Resistance turn to Poe? This movie felt like it was lesson after lesson for him. How does Rey bring balance to the Forceโie, does she bring back the Jedi, does she go after Kylo, etc.
Remaining questions I have:
Are Reyโs parents really just scavengers?
Who leads the Resistance (since Leia is gone)?
Can Finn fully embrace his role in the Resistance? Or is he just tagging along like he felt like he was in TFA and the first half of TLJ?
pissflask ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:08:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
i don't get how anyone can be the slightest bit invested in the state of the resistance/first order. literally a week ago the republic was the established galactic power and the first order was were fringe terrorists, then they fired a big gun (which was somehow 10x bigger than the empire's superweapon at its peak) and nobody seemed super bothered, but apparently that one blast somehow destroyed the entire republic. no on screen explanation as to why or how.
now "the first order reigns" and the entire republic can fit inside a VW van.
it's utter toss worldbuilding. completely takes away any authenticity from the universe and immediately stamps it with the sodden mark of fan fiction. any state of affairs can be flipped at disney's whim without the slightest plausible explanation. that's not a story, it's an ad-libbed rant.
the answer to all your questions is the same: whatever the lucasfilm story group pull out of their asses over coffee without a single thought for narrative authenticity.
maybe you're just thinking about it on the right level: i.e not at all.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 12:21:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
RobertElessar ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 13:22:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think you're reading it backwards, Abrams is the worst director for this. I don't want Rebels vs Empire forever because he wanted to do the same shit. That's not fan service, that's lacking creativity and imagination.
whydoyouonlylie ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:53:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What reasoning are you taking issue with?
Wiffernubbin ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:03:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Fanboys Hate TFA and Into Darkness.
theivoryserf ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:58:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Absolutely. Reddit fucking loves Rogue One, a film with no characters in it, because it's dark and it has a big war scene at the end.
Polterhorst ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:22:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This movie certainly breaks expectations.
goofan ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:24:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Went in completely blind and did not expect the trilogy to take this direction at all. The scope was very tight and while I don't necessarily have a problem with this I really thought TFA set up a more grand sequel.
Rey/Luke/Kylo was awesome and easily the best part of the movie, I like how they didn't just follow the tropes for Luke.
Disappointed with how Snoke was handled. We still know nothing more about the rise of the first order or Snoke's backstory and that was what I was most interested in finding out. I hope there is more on this in episode 9.
Leia's floating scene was controversial and I didn't like it but I can look past it. I wish they would have just ended her then and there but I understand it may have been too hard to have the rest of the movie fit after they'd already shot it.
As plenty of others have noted, the fact that the whole Poe/Finn plan only occured because Holdo didn't reveal a critical piece of information really bothered me. Perhaps if they focused more on the consequences of Poe and Finn acting impulsively and have them show some remorse it could have actually been a lesson on being how being hero isn't always the way, driving home some of Holdo's earlier dialogue. But instead it just looks like a plothole and lazy writing.
As for that Finn subplot, I really didn't like Rose and the romantic plot was completely unneccesary. Did I also catch a jealous glance from Rey near the end when she saw them too? Not sure if i misinterpreted that. The casino place was really cool and the action there was fun but just so pointless and emotionless it was hard to enjoy on anything more than a superficial level.
In regards to the humour; some of it didn't land for me, such as BB8's smoking gun (as opposed to the thumbs up in TFA which I really loved). The ironing board shot was the most hilarious part for me and it was very cheeky and self aware without being too ridiculous. However the jokes were just too widespread and it felt like they had a rule that every scene had to have at least one joke. It neutered the tone of what should have been the most serious and emotionally impacting scenes. I simply didn't feel as much as I expect to feel in a Star Wars movie.
While most of this is criticism there was plenty to like. Overall I enjoyed the movie and I don't understand how some people are calling it terrible but I also can't honestly say it is a better Star Wars movie than TFA in every way. It took risks and Rian deserves credit for taking the series to new places (excited for his trilogy after this for sure) but unfortunately a lot of it just didn't pay off. Force Awakens at least respected the tone a bit more and had some tight writing even if it was very safe.
I will definitely be watching this again and I'm still looking forward to episode 9 but this wasn't the masterpiece I was expecting.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:48:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Is this better than "The Empire Strikes Back"?
SaltHallonet ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 19:52:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
NO.
montell088 ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 19:58:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Might not be better than The Phantom Menace.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 21:23:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
theivoryserf ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:57:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
oh give over
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:47:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There was no giant scope.
The characters were definitely weird at times.
The scene execution was jarring throughout.
With all that said... Seeing Rey and Ben back to back was such a giggly moment. That explosion for Snokes ship, and the dead silence it cut to.. Then later in the movie watching Luke and Ben have a standoff..
The movie took a lot of risks. A lot right. A lot wrong. But when they hit a beat.. It really struck home.
eatsleeptroll ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:59:22 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exiting TFA I felt great about it, but later saw it for a new hope ripoff that it was.
This one left me cold from the get-go. Like, how is Kylo doing anything new from old rule-of-two sith ? Right down to (trying to) recruit the person to help him overthrow his master. Rey had 3 short lessons and is now the last Jedi with little to no knowledge of the old ways so she won't repeat those mistakes. Leia should have died within seconds of being in frickin space. Finn was incompetent and Snoke was a joke. I dunno guys, might I be so mistaken ? Really want to like it more and not just for the pretty show.
stabbybit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:08:05 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I feel like u/hemingway_had_cats is going to have an aneurysm when they see this thread, after how they spent the entire "Review Megathread" attacking anything that was said which was not favorable to the film.
In retrospect, it appears I underestimated Star Wars fans. After the way I came out of TFA completely nonplussed but Star Wars fans loved it, I figured it would be the same way. I left the theater thinking "Well, this is a franchise with no new ideas left" and "Wow, the humor in this falls flat over and over" but "Still, Star Wars fans won't care." I'm now genuinely curious to see what happens because Star Wars fans seem genuinely mad.
PointOfFingers ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 12:08:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I really liked this movie. I've been looking at other reviews on Reddit and people seem to be going out of their way to fault it and blowing little things out of proportion. I went into a midnight screening with an enthusiastic audience and loved the movie. Everyone laughed and cheered at the right times.
The old school aliens and the original muppet Yoda were great and made it feel like a classic Star Wars movie rather than a CGI fest. The plot was along the lines of a Fury Road movie in terms of it mostly being a chase movie but the side quests were there to develop the main characters and they spent a lot of time exploring the flaws and growth of those characters.
The visuals were stunning, some scenes were breathtaking, especially the battle scenes. This is a movie I could watch a few times just to enjoy those visuals.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:18:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Y'mean there's people who go to watch a movie for the joy of the experience instead of waiting to see how much it failed to fill the hollow void in their souls? This fucking thread, man...
theivoryserf ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:01:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
mildly dystopian. Like a Radiohead lyric
Seztael ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 11:19:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I liked it. It diverged from the formula, while still being very much Star Wars. Having one large connected event as the backbone of the story was interesting and something we haven't seen before. It moved a lot things forward and showed that we are done dwelling on the past. I see a lot of complaints about the main plot being simple and even if that is true, it still highlights what is important in these movies. It was never about blowing up the deathstar. It is about the characters. We get to focus on each arc. We see Rey and Kylo become what they are meant to be and get one of the best fights in the series. We see Luke and Leia finish of their story (Only issue for me was not ending Leia's arc in this movie. I hope they find a good way for her to leave in the next.) It added a lot of new aspects to the force, while not doing anything we haven't seen in the extended universe. I liked that Rey's parents aren't important. Like Anakin she is strong in the force and will shake things up, she dosn't need to be of a known bloodline.
PM_ME_CHEESY_1LINERS ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:19:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
TFA :
People like it because OT nostalgia
People hate it because OT nostalgia
TLJ :
People like it because it went unexpectedly, not another ESB
People hate it because it went unexpectedly, not another ESB
ยฏ\_(ใ)_/ยฏ
SaltHallonet ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:09:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Its almost like there's different groups of fans!
AcaciaCelestina ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:39:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Tbh the Star Wars fan base has always been like this, they're notoriously hard to please as a whole.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:17:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
TFA: OMG where's the world building?
TLJ: What was the point of the casino sequence?
bassilisco ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:30:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
world building.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:40:04 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, that's the point.
bassilisco ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:46:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
aah I agree then! I actually loved that. seeing places of the galaxy we have never seen. hope to see more in next installments
el_throwaway_returns ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:29:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
People don't mind things being unexpected. But I think they do mind bad storytelling.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:49:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
paultheschmoop ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:13:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rey had the books and Yoda knew that so
[deleted] ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 17:17:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What if another jedi wants to read them? Do they all just call Rey and she recites for them? lmao
paultheschmoop ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:18:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
......they were already on a planet unknown to everyone in the world other than Rey with an old man Luke, so if anything they're now more accessible than ever
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 17:30:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
or they could've said "hey guys, found some books you might like" there's no reason to destroy them
paultheschmoop ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:35:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
..........they werent destroyed??
_AllahGold_ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:57:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What a retarded view.
tlvrtm ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:02:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean Yoda doesn't say that he burned them because she knew it. He burned them because the texts don't matter if the lessons are lived -- and because Luke needed a lesson about the texts.
I didn't think the scene was particularly well done, though.
jonnywithoutanh ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:49:09 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How this film currently has 93% on Rotten Tomatoes I have no idea. Disney paying for reviews? People too scared to criticise for fear of being black listed in future?
ScruffTheJanitor ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 01:04:02 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Or maybe people like it?
pmmemoviestills ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:21:35 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, it's the children who are wrong.
Pyronaut44 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:45:30 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Star wars is a kids movie franchise, if the children are wrong then Lucasfilm have REALLY fucked up....
pmmemoviestills ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:50:12 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's a Simpson's quote
AcaciaCelestina ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:24:29 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because believe it or not reddit is designed to be an echo chamber.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:22:19 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Black listed
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:41:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I really loved the film, but I thought that it was too long and the subplot with Finn and Rose was pointless. Honestly, I was hoping Finn would've sacrificed himself.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:25:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
i liked the movie, except for the Leia flying through space scene, that was just dumb.
hungergamesofthronez ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:23:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This movie did take risks. Some paid off and others didnโt. I have to say i thought there was too much humour and i found the Leia floating in space scene out of place and weird. I need to watch it again to rank it properly but so as of now its an 8.5/10 for me.
ScruffTheJanitor ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:41:52 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My thoughts are pretty much identical to yours.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:26:16 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Fair review I wouldn't score it as highly but I share your points and still enjoyed it
VeinyMcPulsington ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 11:20:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
thought it was amazing! not perfect but great
pedja13 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:47:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
For me this was the second best if not the best movie of the franchise.It was different and I loved it.It would have been so easy to do more of the same with Snoke being the big bad but this movie took a more bold approach.I liked that the way Luke went out wasnt the same as the way Obi Wan died and that whole scene was amazing.
The cinematography was awesome starting from the Dreadnought attack to the final confrontation between Kylo and Luke and the Rebel ship smashing into Snoke's ship was stunning visually while the silence added to the moment.
A lot of people are having issues with the way Snoke and Luke went out but having Snoke not be the main villain was a good call imo and went with the "Kill the past" theme of the movie by doing things differently than the Original Trilogy.
The Rebel plot wasnt amazing and some scenes could certainly be better and possibly shorter since the movie already has a very long runtime.
Luke facing the AT-AT walkers and Kylo Ren was the highlight of the movie for me and it served to show how actually powerful Luke was and him not actually being there added even more to his legend.
The Leia scene was weird visually and I felt that the movie didnt know what to do with her but this leaves them the option to give both Leia and Carrie Fisher a proper send off in the next movie which is also fine imo.
I am very excited to see where the franchise goes from here because now I dont know what to expect from the next Star Wars movie which is both scary and exciting.They could have played it safe and did another movie that borrows from the original trilogy but instead they played with the expectations of the fan base by doing something fresh and they did it almost perfectly.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:51:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It looked good but there was absolutely no substance and the writing was terrible. The bad plot had to be subsidised with shit, cringey and over used jokes.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:49:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thoughts:
In contrast, the Resistance ends up using outdated technology, still has Princess Leia as a leader, etc. That being said, they're showing the good side of change and progress; using the lessons of the past to make a better future, instead of just wiping the past clean like the First Order does. Rey building a new jedi order from the old texts, Poe learning how to be a better leader from Leia and the purple haired lady, etc.
Fucking Yoda. My favourite scene in the film. That feat where he pulls lightning from the sky just opens up a whole host of questions regarding what Force Ghosts can do. He's still the best teacher in the saga IMO, and the fact they used the Dagobah version of him instead of the prideful, hubris blinded Prequel Trilogy version just hit all the right spots.
I like Rose. As far as new characters go, I can understand a lot of the criticisms and issues, I don't really care about them. I also really like Finn's arc in this. Taking the epithet "rebel scum" as an emotional climax in his journey really sealed it for me.
The Akira Kurosawa-esque "one slash, one kill" motif in this film was great. Kylo's lightsaber ignition trick ( which he used TWICE ) and Admiral Holdo Purple Hair's hyperspace slash were some of the best parts of this film, and some of the best moments in the entire franchise.
Snoke and Phasma, the two anti-climactic boss deaths of this movie, really only served as the representation of everything Kylo and Finn hated, respectively. Kylo hated and feared being controlled by an old, decrepit relic of the past, Finn abhorred being the faceless killing machine, hence his victory in finally exposing Gwendolyn Christie's eye.
RiskyChocolateBiccy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:51:34 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This.
justinotherpeterson ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:00:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Guess im the only one who liked the movie?
bedbugsex ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 16:07:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe you're a critic.
Siglyr ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:32:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I did too... I don't understand the hate. Maybe only the people that don't like it come and comment idk?
CJ_Jones ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:43:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Scroll to the bottom, you'll find the ones that did...
I really enjoyed it too but since we're on reddit and the demographic here is one for analysising of the logic, the CGI, the action, and techy stuff it's going to be a losing fight if what we bring is just feelings of enjoyment.
For a while it's going to be 50/50 if people liked it or not just like with Rogue One.
CJ_Jones ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:54:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Go to the r/StarWars megathread. There are literally dozens of us raving about the great bits.
Starrybutter ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 11:18:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
what was up with kinda shitty practical Yoda? Cool, but totally took me out
faaarmer ยท 41 points ยท Posted at 11:42:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I legit loved shitty puppet Yoda. I had a massive grin the whole damn time he was on screen.
DimitriMishkin ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:25:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously, one of my favourite aspects of the film. As if you could hate the puppet!
Bangersss ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:36:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That was honestly my favourite part of the movie. That's just how Yoda looked and moved in his old age.
Choekaas ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 12:08:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Me too. I've been so used to seeing the extremely fluid CGI yoda, through a lot of marketing and the prequels, that seeing this goofy puppet-like Yoda brought a big smile. Especially when he used his cane to bang on Luke's head.
NDuckL ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 11:45:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What about it was shitty ? It looked just like the puppet in ESB ROTJ. Better looking than the TPM puppet.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 12:06:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's weird, I thought he looked fake as fuck when he initially appeared, but fine as the scene went on. I was mostly confused by Jedi ghosts being able to conjure lightning out of nowhere.
TheChokenOne ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 13:52:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Are you serious? Was one of the best parts of the movie.
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 11:32:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Starrybutter ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:35:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought it was shitty CGI at first (like flying Leia), then I realised it was the opposite way round!
TheLast_Centurion ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:28:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It looked like CG puppet to me at first half of yodiing.
schmeily2 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 11:55:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Finally someone else who thought so! Speaking to all my friends after film and they thought he looked fine.... whereas to me it was the fakest he's ever looked. I was beginning to think I was losing my mind.
noobule ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 12:24:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
yeah like I get that you want to be faithful to the originals and there's charm to puppetry and all that, but this movie was a good example that the time has passed and that there's no reason to use puppetry when we have CGI (unless you're deliberately going for that puppet effect, but even then!)
This movie is also a great example of how it doesn't matter what medium you use if you don't have any character. Yoda in this was way more interesting than his better looking Prequel version
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:06:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought it worked, there are times where puppet Yoda is better and times where CG is better. Having him as a puppet was the right choice here imo.
chuiboy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:28:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's all for the sake of nostalgia. The same goes for the introduction. "In a galaxy far, far away ...." There are so many better ways to open a movie. Only Star Wars can get away with it because of the nostalgia people get from it.
atomicbrett ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:49:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He looked like a green, hairless Gizmo from Gremlins tbh
festershinet0p ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:51:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He looked to me like they kinda made him look a bit like George Lucas.
meeyans ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:07:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
my god. the ammount of hate for this is insane. if you wanted something different and something bold for a star wars movie then HERE IT IS. RIGHT HERE. it showed that star wars is more than simple villains such as snoke and that star wars should be more about the personal relationships such as kylo ren and rey. but no, people just want the same fucking thing. again and again. the structure was different, the character development was different, it was so fresh but people are going to dislike it for that and that to me is the saddest thing about the film.
Lets_Go_Why_Not ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:11:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Trouble is, different does not automatically equal good.
meeyans ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 14:16:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
in this case, it did for me. i want originality in my star wars. would it be better for it to have the same structure and story of the originals or to go for something new? the exact complaints about the force awakens was that it played it too safe, it just copied a new hope. the last jedi took those complaints and crafted a film that defied expectations yet it is being lambasted for the decisions it made. itโs sad but it happens.
Lets_Go_Why_Not ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:27:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
False dichotomy. It would be BEST to do something new and good. Here they did something different and dull (and very poorly written).
Llaine ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 22:16:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Mfw this stupidity is getting upvoted.
Y'all usually love RT and it's now disagreeing with you strongly. If I was gonna pick a side, it'd be the one with people whose job it is to evaluate writing.
Lets_Go_Why_Not ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:23:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I havenโt mentioned RT or other reviewers at all. So come back when you have a relevant opinion and then weโll talk.
Llaine ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:43:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Reviewers would almost certainly flag writing issues in reviews. They haven't. So far, it's only butthurt fanboys in small internet communities (Reddit) claiming that it's badly written.
And they're wrong.
Lets_Go_Why_Not ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:58:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ha good one. This is a parody of a defensive Star Wars fan throwing meaningless shade on people who donโt like his precious movie, right? Well done. So accurate.
Llaine ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:31:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Mate, you're the one trying to say the writing is bad. Lmao.
Lets_Go_Why_Not ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:33:17 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was just about to say your parody was missing an online acronym. โlmaoโ is a good choice, but โlolโ would have sold it more.
Llaine ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:04:05 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Bad at discourse and movies. Hardly surprising. Not going to argue with a strawman any longer.
Enjoy.
Lets_Go_Why_Not ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:08:42 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Perfect send off. Misapplication of a logical fallacy and random insult. Good work.
Ratachu ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 14:18:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But here it does
Lets_Go_Why_Not ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:30:30 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, it does not. Not even close. This film is riddled with some of the worst writing of any blockbuster this year.
Ratachu ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 14:35:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How? The writting was great for the most part. Rey and Kylo scenes were terrific. The same with Yoda.
Lets_Go_Why_Not ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:53:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So, so much. Leiaโs space revival. The pointless Casino side quest that could have been avoided if Dernโs character just told Poe whatโs up. So many instances of โWe just need to buy him timeโ or โHeโs trying to buy time!โ (added to which, wouldnโt Luke be better off telling the rebels that was the plan so that they actually had more time, rather than just hoping theyโd figure it all out). The last minute realization that the rebel ship could be used as a kamikaze missile. The fact that said kamikaze ship miraculously kills the majority of stormtroopers but Finn and Rose are spared. Phantasmaโs general pointlessness. Snokeโs general pointlessness. The hokey final scene. And on and on and on.
Ratachu ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:46:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Dude you are getting donwvoted but you are true. Real movie fans love this movie. Look at the letterboxd.com reactions. Letterboxd is a cinophile social network.
meeyans ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:52:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
thanks man, appreciate it. i suspect r/truefilm will love it while r/movies wonโt.
Ratachu ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:15:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think if you like more the original trilogy or Force Awakens you will like this. If you like Rogue One or the prequels more, you will hate this.
GIANT_BLEEDING_ANUS ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:12:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Damn I was going to say I thought it was good and mindfucked me a bit even but I guess I'll just save myself the downvotes. I've seen people complain about the fucking crystal foxes lmao. Apparently it's worse than PM.
If some of y'all rewatched the OT, with your memories erased you'd probably rate them similarly.
Halo4356 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:32:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Man, I really liked this movie. I don't know why so many people disliked them. I loved the humor, and I loved the subversiveness of every single part of the plot.
The cinematography was fucking mint. The lightsaber scenes were fantastic and that scene with the hyperspeed kamikaze made me audibly gasp.
My audience was a huge fan of the film, so I don't know what's going on in this comments section.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:37:09 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Halo4356 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:49:45 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's a Shame, because while I see some of the points some people are making and they are valid, they are usually not enough to being the movie down. Some of them are just outright misunderstandings of the movie in the first place.
Ah well. I'm looking forward to seeing it again.
TNWhaa ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:35:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't like Leia's arc, they should've just written Laura Dern's character into the spot instead and just killed the character off during that first attack out of light speed, could've been a bit of a catalyst for Ben's conflict and discussions with Rey.
Casio sucked, if that was anyone but Del Toro and Boyega it would've hated the whole plot but it improved as soon as they got to Snoke's ship.
Killing Phasma is okay i guess after letting it simmer since she did nothing in both movies even though she shouldv'e.
Everything else i though was great however it is the negatives that are lingering right now and i think that'll pass on a second viewing.
Johnson did a great job and gave the movie some much needed depth since TFA was by the numbers which wasn't a bad thing, just a nice change. Looking forward to what he does with his own trilogy, however there's gonna need to be a time jump in between TLJ and Episode 9.
Spawn3323 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:13:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why did that guy taste the floor?! "It's salt".
highway_robbery82 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:24:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I guess just to make it clear it wasn't sand or snow? And to sneak in a Gareth Edwards cameo (the fella next to him).
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:20:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"we are definitely not ripping off Hoth"
EnlighteningSnapper ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:21:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did the kid at the end have the force? He grabbed the broom stick using the force
Minscota ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:23:02 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
yea
mattyglen87 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:47:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Are they setting up a Poe/Rey romance? Some vibes at the end there. Even worse....Poe/Rey/Kylo love triangle ugh
gbimmer ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:13:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
One question for those who saw: ok for a 4 and 8 year old to see in the theater matinee?
SaltHallonet ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:19:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
8 year old maybe 4 year old no. There are some grizzly parts, as said above.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:55:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
well, there is one pretty gory moment, and there are also titties... sea sloth titties.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:37:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
sure if you want to introduce them to mediocrity
Hostus_Mostus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:23:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Were they trying to set up a potential romance with Poe and Rey at the end there?
The Rose Finn would be romance was absolutely horrible. When it came to Poe, I thought he may have some romantic connection with that blonde rebel who kept helping him on the ship. Also I feel like Rey and Kylo have GREAT chemistry that seems natural so to try set up something with Poe and Rey would feel forced to me..
DancersaurusRex ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:30:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I am confused by romantic foreshadowing across the board - someone said Rose was just introduced to add a third person to a Finn-Rey-OTHER triangle, but I never saw Rey and Finn as a potential romance from TFA...
Hostus_Mostus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:33:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I read that too. ANY love triangle would be horrible and definitely doesn't belong in a star wars film. it's okay for Rey and Finn to JUST be best friends..
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:35:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
they're trying to copy the luke leia han love triangle with no idea how
FrenchCinema ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:40:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I dont understand why she kissed him. She met him like 5 hours prior too this. It wasnt even built up it was just shoe horned in there. Enough with the romance
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:10:49 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Does the "Death Star tech" cannon count as another Death Star?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:30:06 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
pimpst1ck ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:52:56 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Star Wars has always been funny. This movie was just funnier than the others.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:41:02 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought the humour was bad mostly but saying Star Wars isn't funny is dumb. The OT has some really great funny moments, with Yoda's introduction being a highlight, and one of the best bits of the prequels was the Death Sticks scene
wigum211 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:52:25 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's definitely room for comedy in Star Wars. I'm astonished at how poorly it was written here though. A "your mum joke" in the first 5 mins... Really...?
SSF2_OW ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:02:56 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. Star Wars was serious, and honest, the world was real to the characters. But there was still time for humor. But a lot of this humor was for the audience, to the characters it was just dialogue, or events that occurred. Now the humor is completely different, it's jokes and over the top slap stick, it's your mum level humor targeted to children
cartofu ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:31:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The moment they focused on Leia's hand while she was in space I just knew the movie will be a mess.
Looking back I think the plot of the movie is still fine and they can easily continue to make a great 9th Episode. But the story is all over the place, great, good, bad and even delete scene in places.
I am disappointed. It's not a train wreck, but it's definitely a train derailment.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:48:25 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I hope JJ salvages this trilogy. I can't imagine how stressful it was putting SW back on track the first time and now he'll have to do it again.
SSF2_OW ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:00:52 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't even think the plot was salvageable. It's a two hour film about a space shit slowly running away from another space ship. That's the plot to a one hour episode of star treck, not a Star Wars feature film.
omzzy ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 11:41:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think its the best star wars movie ever made
[deleted] ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 11:43:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How? I thought it was a mess
omzzy ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 11:47:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Had the most character development of any star wars movie with every major character going through a significant arc and coming out changed forever. Had twists and turns i didnt see coming. Every scene with rey and kylo was brilliant. Action was amazing and innovative for star wars. Luke was even better than i imagined. Yoda.
It gave me everything i wanted as a super fan whilst still being original
Only negatives was casino section but once they get arrested its awesome from there and the other bad part was leias "skywalking"
[deleted] ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 12:00:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I disagree at least partially with most of these points.
Finn's arc came to a flat conclusion, I thought him trying to run again was an interesting idea but they abandoned that theme for an uninspired romance, and don't even think Rose had an arc. The Kylo and Rey stuff was all good but it didn't properly conclude.
There were so many unexpected twists that it got ridiculous. Particularly Kylo's turn wasn't satisfying because it was immediately forgotten and had no impact on the rest of the film.
The only exceptional action scene was Kylo and Rey vs the guards, the ground and space battles didn't do anything for me.
Mark Hamil was awesome but it assassinated Luke Skywalker as a character. This is the guy who saw good in Darth Vader right to the very end and now he gets scared of a teenager and was momentarily prepared to execute him. Then he's perfectly okay with hiding on a hidden planet while his friends and everything he fought for dies.
I loved when Yoda appeared but somehow he looked better 37 years ago.
Sorry for being salty
ScruffTheJanitor ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 12:57:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was a lapse from look that lasted a moment. It makes sense. If he thinks he has another Vader infront of him that will kill many people there would be a thought to end it right now and save those people.
omzzy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:59:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
His theme was finding courage and being willing to sacrifice
omzzy ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:00:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The rest we just see differently i guess
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 12:16:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Glad there are some people who enjoyed it as much as me, thought it was quality. Naturally there are a couple questionable elements but overall I fucking loved it. Can't see how people are complaining about how Luke was handled, thought he was one of the best parts of the movie, super well acted and really solid story arc.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:14:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Blind fanboyism
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:42:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
scrubbed
omzzy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:43:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Eh i dont mind they can like what they like for me its the best
darthdarkseid ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:40:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
The only scene I didn't really enjoy was when Leia force pulls herself back to the ship. Other than that I loved the movie. I didn't even dislike the Rose and Finn subplot that much (apart from the apparent romance they seem to be shoehorning in), it was interesting and I feel like it ended when it had to.
The one thing I am a bit peeved about is the give the Vice Admiral Holdu? a heroes demise while Admiral Ackbar is just mentioned in passing. How you gonna do that to my mans? Or it would have been perfect for Leia to take that shit down.
So many beautiful shots throughout the movie. The silent destruction of Snoke's ship, Luke and Ren's 'fight'
Also didn't mind the humour as much as other redditors are. Some jokes were hit and miss but most of them were pretty funny. Luke wiping his shoulder after he gets bombarded by the AT-ATs or his first lesson with Rey when he just whacks her with the grass was funny shit. Also didn't mind the Porgs. That weird scene with Chewie tryna eat one was funny stuff.
Loved it more than Force Awakens and will probably see it a couple more times in the future.
When Luke said to Leia "He'll always be with us." about Han, I couldn't help but imagine that he was speaking about Carrie.
Wonderful movie.
UsualSaryaMain ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:06:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What I really been thinking is that maybe Luke didn't die, because i swear that I saw a ship on the horizon while Luke was laying back. And I don't think they choose to do that with no reason, also I don't know why he just disappear and why the dices from the Millennial falcon disappear as well. And he blocked his force from them all along while he was hiding so he might as well be hiding again, he might be in a place feeling like he has do what they needed him to do, re-ignite the spark of the rebellion, and that they don't need anything more from him, that he might got a chance to disappear and be in peace.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:08:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There was definitely a dot in the sun but then in the next shot it was gone. In Ep4 when Vader strikes down Obi-Wan he vanishes (and his clothing falls to the ground), same as when luke disappears and his clothing blows away
UsualSaryaMain ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:26:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I realize it too, that it vanished. But you know he might used the force to fake his death, because Joda vanished like that too right? But then why those dices disappear. And good think I wasnt the only one who notice it (The flying dot/ship).
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:38:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The dice disappeared because they weren't there to begin with. Luke was just a projection on that planet same with the dice that he gave to Leia. So when he died the dice disappeared.
UsualSaryaMain ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:58:14 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well the thing is that I kind of remember somebody else took em out of the falcon when they arrive to the planet. But I could be wrong. When I saw it I was falling asleep.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:05:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
At one point Luke goes inside the falcon and picks up the dice (he also reunites with R2D2).
UsualSaryaMain ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:30:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But that actually happen right with fiscal Luke not the astral one. Right? Im sorry but I was really sleepy eventho I just loved the movie, I need to see it again.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:37:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yup that happens on the island
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:43:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They're "dead" but Yoda, Obi-wan, and Luke all became one with the force. Their spirit, identify, and consciousness exist with the living force, so they're not entirely "dead", i'm sure Luke will appear in 9.
UsualSaryaMain ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:59:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I hope he does. Hes performance here was at least in my opinion the better we got from Luke.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:57:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Having just seen the movie I felt that it was...weird. It's like having an awesome, sexy movie stuck inside another bloated fat movie.
The Good: All the scenes of Rey and Luke on the island. The desperate retreat of the resistance. Rey and Kylo's conflict. The last hour or so of the movie was generally pretty excellent.
The Bad: Rose's character was pointless and annoying. The entire canto bight sequence in general was awful and detracted from the rest of the film. I kinda wished they'd have cut out the whole thing and rose. Just have Holdo tell the others her plan and save the canto bight budget for a bigger more epic battle on crait or something. Snoke was also horribly wasted (for reasons many here have already picked up on) and in a way Kylo becoming head of the first order was also a waste of his character. IMO they should have kept Snoke around and have Kylo rebel but remain some sort of omnicidal grey jedi might have been a more interesting direction to take him. I thought there was value in Luke's idea of balance being both a mix of light and dark and felt that they should have explored that a little more.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:53:49 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm very surprised this is getting as much hate as it is
This movie is essentially about how heroes cannot always save the day
Poe, in his defiance of Leias orders may have destroyed the dreadnought but at the expense of most of their fleet and all of their bombers meaning they were completely ill equipped to defend themselves after they jumped. He continued this behaviour and his refusal to trust in the leadership cost the lives of many, many resistance fighters
Finn felt useless, and selfishly only wanted to save Rey and went off on a mission completely unprepared trying to save the day. Unlike in Rogue 1 he was not prepared, and not trained and ended up fucking up because he had no plan. Instead of the one man that he was sent to find he came back with another dashing smuggler, who shock they aren't all heroes like Han Solo, some are just in it for themselves
Rey essentially fell in love with the legend of Luke Skywalker and how his belief in Vader and trust in him caused him to change to the Light side finally. This misled her into walking into Snokes ship and allowing herself to be captured. Her actions allowed the apprentice to become the master
This movie showed how the best intentions don't always work, how heroes don't always save the day. Allies will desert you, friends will betray you, enemies may offer you a place by their side
I thought it was a much better film than TFA because it was a much more unique plot in comparison.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:12:53 on December 17, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you for sharing this thoughtful review. I liked what they tried to do more than the final execution. It had a good foundation, but there was a big chunk of content that should have been tightened up during production or killed in editing. Some of the comedy was fine, but some just murdered the pacing and prevented the movie from developing the tension it was attempting to evoke.
GIGM9 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:02:58 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is a really great review and I now feel less conflicted with myself about the film. While I generally enjoyed the movie overall and think its a great addition to the saga the thing that bugged me the most was the excess use of jokes, that leia scene and the finn/rose section of the movie. Some epic scenes and visuals in the movie just the weak points stick out too me too much as of right now. Hopefully after i see it again tonight the good parts will over shadow the niggling gripes i have about this movie.
pmmemoviestills ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:17:20 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, it's different. But it's not different on the fanboys terms so it's worse than AotC
BigSnoke ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 12:13:31 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
If you liked this movie you are not a real Star Wars. If you like the ST you are not real a Star Wars fan.
The entire OT has been rendered pointless. Happy ending? Gone. Snoke? Pointless. Rey? Even more of a Mary Sue since she doesn't even have a special lineage. Kylo Ren? Still fucking sucks. Finn and Poe? What is the point of them? They're even more irrelevant than before.
Luke? Well to say he got ruined would be an understatement. And all just so they could make Rey the real hero.
People actually prefer this over the PT? That George's sequel trilogy WOULDN'T be better? Even Mark said that Disney should have listened to him.
But hey at least the fight scene was cool, very brutal.
NoxZ ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:05:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
/r/gatekeeping
ScruffTheJanitor ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 12:55:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lmao. Calm down.
RobertElessar ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 13:24:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He's right though, this movie makes the OT irrelevant. We are back at the status quo of A New Hope. After they remade it.
bautin ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:37:00 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's the thing, nothing ends. Nothing ever ends.
Eventually, the OT would be irrelevant in their timeline. Hell, the Old Republic is irrelevant by the time we get to the OT.
TB12GOAT78 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:06:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Still, the saying "too soon" has never been more applicable. All the heroics and epicness of the OT has resulted in 30 years of slight peace and back to square one? The result of the OT should have been something better, but then I guess we can't have new movies, idk, it's all kind of stupid.
bautin ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:29:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And so we always think.
World War I, the war to end all wars, ended in 1918. World War II began in 1939.
China managed to finish it's little civil war after the end of WWII. I mean, look at that. China was engaged in a civil war about 9 years after the end of World War I, then World War II interrupted their war. A war that may not be technically over.
5 years after the end of World War II and about a year after the communists took over China's mainland, they got involved in a minor scuffle called the Korean War.
Not long after that was over, a proxy war was fought for 20 years in Vietnam. And from Vietnam's perspective, it was just war after war after war.
At the end of the OT, they had assassinated the Emperor and destroyed a major military installation. There's no way the entire fleet was destroyed by that action. And while the power vacuum may have been an issue, it's not completely unbelievable that a significant remnant survived to eventually regroup.
So yeah. 30 years. Not bad.
Llaine ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:08:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with the point in essence, it would have been nice to see more of the peace though. Kinda feels like the victory of 6 went straight on to another death star in ep 7.
bautin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:27:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean technically we went from the victory of the Clone Wars to another galactic civil war in A New Hope.
These are stories about conflict. The time in between is immaterial to a point. We didn't see anything about the 20-ish years between Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope despite probably being relatively peaceful.
Llaine ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:46:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah true, I'm don't dislike the movies either but this aspect has just bugged me. Like it is annoying seeing the entire alliance squashed onto the Falcon now when in Ep 6 they'd basically routed the Empire. Imagine how much it'd suck seeing that if you were Leia, haha
TB12GOAT78 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:41:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Still, they managed to make a multi-planet killing base 100x the size of the death star and casually killed like 7 planets at once? Dumbest part of TFA by far, I mean you can't take Star Wars seriously, but that just made me throw my hands up and say "ok, I have seen enough". Just flat out stupid.
_AllahGold_ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:53:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Go fuck yourself, you goddamn gatekeeping nerd.
Saxonrau ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:30:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not a real Star Warsโฝ
this is some proper gatekeeping here
d_snizzy ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:28:58 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is prime material for /r/gatekeeping
PM_ME_CUTE_SM1LE ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:23:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ok the iron landing was the coolest moment in Star Wars while lightspeeding through the Snoke ship and silent shots afterwards are the most epic
Best Star Wars film for me so far
[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 18:39:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
PM_ME_CUTE_SM1LE ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:54:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
i have to admit i am still under new star wars movie buzz right now but it slowly wears off
ddd4175 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:51:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It did feel like it was trying too hard and was a little too predictable, as they say it is too "Disney". I still find it as an enjoyable movie and added more substance to the current trilogy but it's not any better than the original trio.
Barbosa94 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:07:14 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not a huge star wars fan, never watched the first 3 but watched the rest. I thought the "humor" wasn't funny at all, the only times I laughed was the Mary Poppins in space scene and most of kylo Ren's scenes because he's always upset or angry, the only really entertaining part to me was when kylo Ren took Ray to snope or whatever his name was lol but they would jump from the middle of that scene to boring Finn and rose scenes, if your under 12 years old then this movies for you
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:07:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
After a lot of struggle, I've decided i'm not watching the movie. I'm reading the spoilers just out of curiosity
edit: After reading, I'm glad I'm skipping the movie. So instead of sitting through 2 and a half hours mad, I can just read this and enjoy all the bad moments I missed.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:19:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
People with genuine, justifiable, positive things to say about the film are down voted.
A guy deciding to ruin the movie for himself, and then state hes not even going to watch like some type of a fucken pariah doing the world a service is upvoted.
I'm out, you guys are a pack of wankers.
CallMeDutch ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:52:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The movie is enjoyable, don't read into these comments to much.
pmmemoviestills ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:15:27 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is a massive initial outburst of fanboys going insane because "muh lore". People on letterboxd are saying it's great, and that's a much better venue for film discussion.
Your post is an example. You've decided you dislike it without having seen it. This is one of the worst online fanboy fits I've ever seen in a community.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:42:53 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
pmmemoviestills ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:45:31 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm sure Disney will be reeling.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:58:12 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And that's the problem. Disney can make whatever they want and their PR machine can make people watch it without changing a thing even when it's dreck. An Empire never listens to its people.
ScruffTheJanitor ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:46:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Absolutely loved it
Osmodius ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:09:27 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm pretty conflicted. There were plenty of awesome scenes, I'm happy with most of the story, but there's a whole of junk inbetween it all.
Most of it has already been covered, but it really felt like there was a good movie or two in there, and then they just lathered up with nonsense to, I don't know what they wanted to achieve.
Luke milking a fat dragon? The fuck?
Magic skype calls through the force? Since when?
Snoke is a little bitch that does nothing then gets shanked?? Why did we even bother with a villain for one and a half movies if he's going to end up doing nothing and pissing himself.
Magic force holograms to make Kylo look even more like a whiny angst machine?
Dead yoda lightning storm what the fuck.
Oh there's cute penguin owls, nice. Oh they're back again. Oh and again. Oh Chewweeee is eating one. Oh and they're here again. Oh now they're crying. Oh now they're tiny wookiees.s Fuck off. This isn't Frozen.
Leia can fly sure okay why not.
But then there was so much quality.
The light speed ram. Holy fuck was that spectacular.
The Luke and Kylo plot twist, the internal struggle. Kylo isn't a bad guy, he was betrayed (or at least from his perspective it looks reasonably like that).
The way Kylo used the double lightsaber trick on Snoke was actually pretty good.
The humbling of Rey, and explanation of her flaws rather than her remaining as a magic super wizard of no flaws.
Actually there's more negatives than positives that I can remember, but I think they just stuck out more than the positives. I certainly had a few moments I was really enamoured with.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:47:57 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I think Rian just turned Star Wars' force into Looper's "tk"
uravg ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:22:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The scene where Finn was told that the rich guys were selling arms to both sides felt like an unnecessary social commentary for me. Star Wars is escapism I really don't want to be reminded of how bleak our real world is.
sonQUAALUDE ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:11:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Extremely enjoyable. The characters in this new series are fantastic, their relationships genuinely interesting, and their motivations compelling and believable.
Sure, its a middle movie which is by necessity, to some degree, filler. Pieces moving around to setup the concluding chapter. But the questions it asked and the expectations it broke made it more notable than probably half the rest of the movies combined. The failure of heroes, the self conflict of villains, the nature of power, the soul of resistance. Heady stuff, but done effortlessly.
Personally I would have wanted more Finn, as I love his story so much and John Boyega has a presence and comic timing that elevates everything around him. But this is The Last Jedi, so I get that the focus has to be Luke, Rey and Kylo. All of who did phenomenal jobs. Mark Hamil and the jaded bitter old wizard arc was worth 30 years and 3 awful prequels waiting for. Ridely with Driver doing the antagonistic telepathic thing was flawless, as was the fight scene at Snokes extremely sick lair.
There was so much that happened and so many important beats hit that Ill definitely need to watch it a few more times to digest, but Real Stuff in here to talk about. Both in terms of plot and in terms of meaning.
EDIT: lmao at mad nerds downvoting a genuine contribution
Al89nut ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:26:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I suspect they've no idea what the final chapter will be
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:47:18 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
heyitsmejosh ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:51:20 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
hey guys this person said something positive about the movie better downvote him quick!!!
montell088 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 02:52:55 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"Wah, everyone doesn't love what I love!"
pmmemoviestills ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:01:27 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Um, this thread is pretty much, "Wah, everyone doesn't hate what I hate".
heyitsmejosh ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:53:55 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
nah i just find it humorous that people are that angry about it
wolfgang187 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:56:38 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I kind of expected it to be bad, no anger here.
Mattbillups19 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:13:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just as Force Awakens felt like A New Hope 2.0, The Last Jedi had many similarities to The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. I really liked the Force ghost scene and a bunch of other things that were unexpected. To me, the best moments were the scenes with Luke once again looking on at two suns and the scene with the young boy. If that was the final scene in the very last Star Wars movie, I would have been ok with that because that's what Star Wars is all about :)
Someone I know actually called this the Dark Knight of the Star Wars franchise. Would anyone agree with that?
RobertElessar ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:25:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Dark Knight left the story in a new direction. This left it back at a New hope, where we can experience the story for a third time.
I agree with the end scene, felt more like the last scene of the entire saga.
mltronic ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:06:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How come no one is talking about most badass Force moment ever. What Luke pulled vs Kylo was epic! I know Mark Hamill isnโt pleased with direction Ryan took with Luke but come on, that topped anything weโve seen before. I loved it.
X-ScissorSisters ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 10:45:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's plot holes all the way down.
cabooseblueteam ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 11:07:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Can you name a few? I just saw the film and didn't feel that there was anything major?
duffking ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 11:20:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not that guy, but I personally don't understand why the first order couldn't have just contacted some more ships and intercepted the resistance ones from hyperspace in front rather than slowly following them for the whole movie.
X-ScissorSisters ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 11:17:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well, my first issue is that everything happens in the exact nick of time, over and over again, starting from the bomber in the opening space battle
My second is that Leia flew through space just out of nowhere
My third issue would be that Luke went to all the trouble of projecting an image of himself but then died anyway
My fourth issue would be that Yoda can not only manifest, and not only does so to influence events taking place in the galaxy, but that he can go as far as summoning lightning and has done nothing and contributed nothing to any aspect of the plot in the last 30 years apparently
My fifth issue is that the entire conflict with Poe and the admiral on the cruiser could have been solved with a ten second explanation
My sixth issue relates to that, in that apparently there was a planet visible from the front window the entire time that nobody mentioned before, nobody saw before, Poe doesn't look out windows to maybe think that planet matters in any way
One bomber can just take out a colossal space dreadnought?
One fighter can just take out literally dozens of close-range defense turrets? What are those turrets for if they can't hit an X-wing? which appears to be a pretty standard kind of fighter?
Bangersss ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:39:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes.
Shooting bombers.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 11:26:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 12:12:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
By exploiting a design fault, not by throwing explosives at it
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 11:21:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
cabooseblueteam ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 11:23:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Those aren't plot holes? With the exception of Holdo not telling Poe of her plan that is.
opinionatedcaboose ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:16:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
i was disappointed that so many positives for the star wars storyline had to be paired with so many negatives. It was like a pseudo jar jar was superimposed on every scene i was enjoying because of the fact that it was disney
ZeekOwl91 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:29:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm just wondering how they'll deal with Leia's character in the next film, since Carrie's passed. Seems like they should have let her go and kept Luke on.
ScruffTheJanitor ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:00:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Probably my main issue. There was so many opportunities for her to go.
gr4ndm4st3rbl4ck ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:29:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rebel Scum!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:12:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
lankeymarlon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:18:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The introduction of the Casino was definitely a nod to this shot: https://youtu.be/d1H699088FI
YoungDumbass ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:12:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So the kid at the end with the broom.
He was Star Wars Kid yeah?
batwingss ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:25:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did that little kid at the end of the movie (with the rebellion ring) grab the broom with the force?
Rory-mcfc ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:36:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yep
joewj1992 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:35:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Please could aomeone tell if rey actually using kylos lightsaber in the film
Minscota ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:48:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She turns it on, but there arent any actual duels in the movie.
joewj1992 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:04:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Does she use it tho
wicket42 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:35:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
For about 2 seconds
joewj1992 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:39:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hi could someone please tell me if rey actually uses kylos lightsaber in the film
bedbugsex ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:47:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
She turns it on I guess... There are no lightsaber duels in the film whatsoever.
ww_brianboitano_d0 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:12:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
at least Luke and rey had a stick fight though
bedbugsex ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:17:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That was dirty hitting him from behind. It's like they were thinking of more ways to make Rey unlikable.
paultheschmoop ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:17:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Also
Was that Jonah Hill getting blown up in one of the opening air fights? Could've swore
PavlikNej ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:06:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It looked to me like James Corden
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:23:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
pretty sure it wasn't him
mattyglen87 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:48:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Can someone explain the dark side vision that Rey had??
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:24:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why on earth was this edited like a trailer? They never gave scenes a chance to breathe, it was jumping all over the place.
poduszkowiec ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:41:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Movie was as good as the two previous Disney SW releases. My biggest issue is that there was a little bit too much goofy scenes (like with the Porgs) and some pacing issues in the first half.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:14:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:20:47 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yoda dies
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:16:39 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
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[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:17:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
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[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:17:54 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
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[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:18:09 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
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[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:18:29 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[Long Review / Opinion Piece: Part 5 of 5]
Overall this movie had a good story for Luke, Rey and Kylo; while the rest of the movie was "meh" (Poe's story-line) or downright awful, boring (shocking, the thought of Star Wars being boring is bizarre but it has happened for me) and annoying (Finn and Rose's side-plot). Unfortunately the bad parts just overshadow the good parts, especially when taken into consideration how little exposition there is and how much this film seems to be in defiance of the Star Wars lore and established by Lucas (mainly surrounding Rey's power and changes in how the Force works).
Star Wars just isn't Star Wars any more and while this had some moments that are unforgettable, it has unfortunately made me lose hope for the future of Star Wars. After this I doubt any Star Wars will be as good as the prequels (excluding Episode I), let alone the original trilogy. Part of me feels like the only way to redeem this franchise is to bring Lucas back, but even then it feels to much damage has been done to his story to redeem that.
"Moving Forward" and "Forgetting the Past" where the themes of the movie and for me that means moving forward from the hope their being another truly great Star Wars which deserves the name Star Wars.
Overall, you can tell this was made by Disney and several people whom all have varying (and weak knowledge) of the source material and while technically well made and shot with the effects and in some areas acting; it just lacks the passion, foresight or vision that it had under Lucas at the helm. JJ's "mystery box" style of story telling lead to know where and was ultimately a lie, a style of story telling that I see as lazy and pretentious.
I personally am no longer interested in the future of Star Wars (beyond an Obi-Wan Kenobi film if they manage to bring back Ewan McGregor), the departure is just too large for me. Sure Kylo and Poe are interesting, but the changes with the underlying premise of Star Wars with the workings of the Force and the main character Rey is just too off putting for me.
Like the Star Trek, I think this will seriously divided the fan-base of Star Wars for the first proper time and fragment it into group that like specific series or in this case trilogies.
6/10, while it has some great highlights; unfortunately the weakest entry in the series and ultimately the end of what Star Wars once was.
My ratings of the Star Wars Films in order:
4 (10/10) > 5 (10/10) > 3 (9/10) > 6 (8/10) > 2 (7/10) > 7 (7/10) > 8 (6/10) > Rogue One (6/10) > 1 (5/10)
jasongreeno ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:29:05 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'll fix one scene, then you take a turn.
Luke's last fight:
Luke hints to Poe that there is always a way, then confronts the First Order. They blast him and he walks away unscathed.
Luke duels with Kylo only to find that Luke WAS killed by the AT-AT blasts... He turns Force Ghost Blue revealing that he sacrificed himself, like Kenobi, but in a tricky way. Then we don't need that last island scene at all. Or the stupid disappearing dice. Dice? Really???
Nartsky ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:08:10 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ok for jokes, ok for histerical humiliated Luke, ok for all plot holes but WTF champagne and cops doin in a galaxy far far away?
I'm really disappointed as a fan and very confused of critics ranking. This rankcheating from Disney is so obvious. And again this piece of crap will gain millions $
spoilt_exile ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:20:10 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
As an old hardcore fan I found this movie somewhere in the middle. It doesn't deserve current level of hype. Cinematography is fine. Also some visual design works really well. I liked Crait planet. Music also good, Jonh Williams did a great job. But everything else...
What they had done to Luke? In SWEU Legends he was happy enough character with wife, child, bunch of followers etc. He did messed up things but he always fixing them. In Disney Extended Univers Luke is grim dark character with ruined life. Motivation of the Luke has no sense. He planted a map to find him. But he didn't want to be found. Genius writing! Also this movie continues trope of the soft reboots: old character gone exile and sit for ten-twenty years and waiting new protagonist. At least Tron Legacy did it. Also new Blade Runner. In short: SWEU: happy normal Luke; Disney EU: hobo Luke as plot device for fanservice and Rey development.
Lightsaber fights. Ah... It shooted in most aweful way possible. Look at LCC. Fans made great saber fights videos every year. Far more better than contemporary movie. It has to be a joke but it's not.
Throwing away JJ and other thing. I think main purpose of this film is to throw away as many thing as possible. Old stuff or new stuff it doesn't matter at all. All JJ mistery boxes gets into space. With a lot of the stuff from original trilogy. Get rid of pointless Phasma is OK. I feel no attachment to her at all. Snoke was relevant to plot. He can't be removed without a bit of explanation. He was a villan than shifted power balance in the Galaxy, ruins Republic etc. And we should at least know from where it came. Even some fan theroies was more entertaining than this.
Adding more things. Finn and Rose plotline is just disgrace. It trying to show something new but fails. Design of whole thing doesn't fit SW. For me Finn and Rose appears in Jupiter Ascending. Also dumb exposition from Rose is lazy and obvious. Benicio character was fun. But he also serves as plot device to get Fin to Supremacy and kick Phasma ass few minutes later. And many thinks that first half ot RotJ was stupid.
5/10
GeneralShowzer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:01:08 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
reddit really seems to like general problematic...i thought she was easily the worst character since Jar Jar
Dosca ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:35:51 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Everything about Rey and Luke along with Kyloโs conflict with Snoke was awesome. Especially everything that happened on the Island.
The 2 hour escape of a ship thatโs right behind them felt real damn stupid and a waste of a good threat. That couldโve been condensed in 40 minutes. Everything Finn and Rose did was completely pointless except for murdering a shitload of rebels.
Argh0naut ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:35:41 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When had just seen TFA, i was slightly disappointed because it resembled the OT so much but I still liked it and was already anticipating the second movie of the new trioloy. Now, I honestly (and this really pains me as a huge Star Wars fan) I'm not even interested in the third one. This movie had some great scenes, but the plot was bad and the humor was even worse. Also, WHY DID YOU JUST ERASE ALL THE BUILDUP FROM TFA RIAN JOHNSON? NOTHING HAPPENS IN YOUR MOVIE EXEPT FOR RUINING PLOTLINES THAT WERE PERFECTLY SET UP BY ABRAHAMS! God I'm disappointed.
RubberDong ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:38:14 on December 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Star Wars fans are the worst.
RadicalOwl ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:28:22 on December 18, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Some good things (like the hyperspace attack), but I hate the plot and what they've done with Luke as a character. Apparently, and the force awakens had the same problem, the first three movies were meaningless. There is still a fucking rebellion - sorry, resistance - fighting the empire. Nothing has changed. "Now the war begins"? Then what was the point of the original movies? And Luke...what a genuinely nasty character now. Weak, whiny, and cowardly.
this_too_shall_parse ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 01:17:36 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Fuck me there's a lot of nitpicking and negativity in this thread!
I loved it. Every second of it. Left the cinema grinning. Can't wait to see it again!
whycalyl ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:43:20 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Same here.. The changes were refreshing..
lakelandman ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:27:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
6 average-to-poor movies in a row. why do you people still get pumped up about this garbage? move on.
ElCharmann ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:02:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This movie will be very divisive. It's very different in so many ways (some good, some bad) I personally loved it, can't wait to see it again
Mintfriction ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:09:46 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I hated Force Awakens. FA was that movie where except Han dies, nothing would be a spoiler. At the end it was just empire vs rebellion and deathstar destroyed, new emperor, a lone jedi seeking a hermit master.
I almost didn't go to this one. Would've been a shame. While not perfect, TLJ is a great SW movie. Finally the events don't happen because of a chain of lucky events, they have a reason. I really liked Rei Kylo dynamic. Disappointed that Rei didn't joined him, for me is one of - of it, that the movie chose from going something new, to return to the old narrative. I loved how they fixed some stupid Jar Jar Abrams plot failures, like Luke the hero choosing to GTFO while the galaxy burns. He is the reason things went haywire and feels broken. The movie is not perfect, leaves a lot of questions like who the fuck is snooke coming from and how is he so overpowered or how is the freaking republic so easily defeated. But it certainly won me over .
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:10:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I would recommend non of you see this movie just to protest Disney acquiring a near monopoly on the entertainment industry.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:21:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
ironically Disney is buying Fox who originally made Star Wars and judging by Deadpool/Logan, who'd make a better version of it
ExleyPearce ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:22:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I for one really enjoyed it. It's inconsistent but hits some really high heights. Everything involving Luke, Kylo and Rey was great. The rebel subplot started off a bit iffily but once it got going I was really invested in it.
The new characters and the casino planet was where it faltered in my opinion. BDT was awful. Rose was really annoying when on the casino planet and I'd have much rather had Poe and Finn interact more, thankfully things improved once they infiltrated the base.
I like how they handled Leia. Could it have been more powerful? Yes, but I think they handled her final farewell with Luke in such a effective fashion that I didn't mind.
Choccybizzle ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:36:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone here has made much better points and observations than I can make. However I donโt think it is as bad as people here are saying, nor is it as good as critics are saying. I really enjoyed it except for the some of the forced and childish humour, and I didnโt care for the lemming things, and I wish Snope had a bit more backstory, Also, some of the cinematography was stunning.
ProfPeanut ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:52:27 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh boy, I can't wait to talk about everything I enjoyed about this movie-
What the actual ef, thread.
(I can concede there were questionable choices, but I honestly I watched this to have a good time, which was had.)
whycalyl ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:54:05 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Which part did you like? I like how finally Leia shows her capabilities with the Force.. I kept hearing Luke saying "the Force is strong in my family" in the background.
flyingsaucerinvasion ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:10:24 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
The Disney SW movies are to the Original Trilogy what Trump is to Obama's Legacy.
I think I've just decided, there are only 3 Star Wars movies.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:14:52 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 02:23:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A risk that was an utter failure.
pmmemoviestills ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:03:14 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"Be different, but on my terms"
Schaafwond ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:40:30 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Would you go as far as saying that it was a surprise, to be sure?
The_Inner_Light ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 09:37:07 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What risk? Going to the casino while we wait for a ship to outrun another ship? Oh and at the end we have another fucking death star machine plus a recycled Hoth battle.
BloodyRedBarbara ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:37:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Saw it earlier today. I thought it was pretty good though I can understand peoples issues with it.
I'm surprised people hated the jokes though considering The Force Awakens was pretty comedic. I feel like that film had more jokes.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:03:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
SaltHallonet ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:16:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Whats the point of killing him if hes just gonna come back?
Whats the point of death if anyone can come back?
FifthPine ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:49:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is an issue that's always existed in the SW universe though. First Ben and the Yoda both died only to soon come back and give valuable advice to the hero. I don't see why that should change with Luke in IX, he's definitely become one with the force, unlike most Jedi whose bodies don't disappear after death
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:05:14 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Throwing my opinion in with the rest. If these things got taken out, the remainder would have been a good film. Just off the top of my head:
Porgs. Pointless, ham-fisted merchandising.
Not the animals themselves, since they had plot relevance, but the phrase 'crystal critters'. Ugh.
'Chrome Dome'. Awkward to cut out by itself, but see next point.
The entire Finn and Rose subplot. Cut it, splice in the scenes of them having the original plan, Poe can still mutiny, cut to the scene of their capture. Still works since we saw the distinct shape of the tracker both in the planning scene and the capture scene. Shot of the very end of their escape of the collapsing hangar to lead in to next sequence.
Luke's shoulder brush post-barrage
Leia's spacewalk. Cut the interior shot of the bridge being destroyed, we see her in a hospital bed later and can assume she was injured in the explosion.
The kiss. Cut just before it, we next see Rose being dragged in on a stretcher. No weird shot of her 'maybe' dying. We know she's alive, we see Finn pulling her in and calling for a medic, having last seen her injured and very weak. Simple.
Poe telling the shuttle pilot to go 'full throttle!!'. Like there was any possible reason the pilot wouldn't already be flooring it.
That's it off the top of my head. Could end up with a decent fan edit in a few months, more manageable length under two hours as well.
The0rangeKind ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:34:08 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Good points. The editor made lots of poor choices.
Edwinus ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:44:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Man that Yoda scene I got all teary eyed right in the feels it was great!
PeterLeroy ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:54:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
See? You loved something so you're getting downvoted.. This sub shouldn't suffer from this.. We all love movies, don't downvote because of tastes..
Powly674 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:52:37 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
man the majority here is mostly criticizing meanwhile I'm just here amazed by how much better than episode 7 it was
montell088 ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 16:55:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I hate both about the same for different reasons.
Spartan_exr ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:59:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh man I really liked it! The fight scenes were amazing! Especially in the throne room. Did two scenes I didnโt like was the floaty scene with Leia, plus the escape on the gambling planet. Loved Rey and Kylo Rens development, and Luke was pretty much as I expected, which was risky and interesting, very fitting
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 01:57:50 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Warning: if you have any positive comments about this film, please direct them towards /r/StarWars. This entire subreddit is an echo chamber of negativity and you'll only be downvoted.
ethernetcord ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:03:24 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And rightfully so.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:04:15 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, not rightfully so. That's retarded. People aren't wrong for liking the film. Instead of downvoting, why don't you generate discussion and dispute their points? Downvoting shouldn't be used as a disagreement tool.
wolfgang187 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:07:32 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
Yeah, cause I'm sure r/starwars isn't downvoting those of us who hate it with impunity?
Schaafwond ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:45:17 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Jesus christ, what are you, twelve?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:08:15 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, they're not.
pmmemoviestills ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:16:13 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Man you're trying to reason with fanatic manchildren. These people are saying it's "the worst movie ever made". Don't bother.
ethernetcord ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:08:00 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What is downvoting for if not a disagreement tool?
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 02:08:38 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's for comments that add nothing to the conversation. Read the official rules of the website.
ethernetcord ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:08:56 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
downvoted
j/k I actually upvoted you
SideVoteBot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:09:00 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You know, there's a little button for that.
Sirs! Mams! Please downvote by clicking the button. Don't spam the comment feed with 'downvote' unless you're further elaborating!
chakravart1n ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:41:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Alright, the Rebel Cruise Ship crashing the Star Destroyer with light speed has got to be one of the best Star Wars moments of all time.
Minscota ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:06:18 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It would be if auto pilot didnt exist.
caodalt ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:58:34 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There were some good things and not-so-good things in The Last Jedi, but what worries me the most is that JJ Abrams is going to mess up the good things that were set up in TLJ because we all need a rehash of Return of the Jedi :/
edduno128 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:51:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I loved this film. It felt like Star Wars while still being ballsy and trying something new. Everything story-wise and execution-wise was perfect IMO, lots of surprises. The ONLY issue I have with it is the over-use of one-liners and humor which, at times, just became too much and took away from the seriousness of certain scenes, - but maybe I'll change my mind when I see it again. Overall, a great star wars film! :D
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:37:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
edduno128 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:58:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lukes character development and his story with Kylo Ren
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:00:22 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
edduno128 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:05:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The way they handled Luke in this movie was new and incredibly ballsy. They were basically turning the main hero good-guy into a more complex, nuanced character with his inner conflict. (Almost killing Kylo Ren, realizing the Jedi were overly confident) Poe was very cocky and too confident at the beginning of the movie but afterwards he started to see his mistakes too. And Yoda dances
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:10:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
edduno128 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:45:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Have you seen KOYAANISQATSI :) I have seen SOO many movies itโs ridiculous!
RaoulDude ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:31:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I liked a lot about it, but the Finn and Rose sub-plot was a bit annoying. Seeing the space upper class was a nice change but honestly I'd rather just see inside another slightly different cantina. I thought Domhnall Gleeson was fantastic in the role, proper old school Star Wars empirical villain.
welsh_hero_beans ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:14:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Looks like Luke finally learned Ultra Instinct.
Superman Leia threw me off a bit.
Good film tho.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:55:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This film needed more Justin Theroux
citabel ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:23:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Story wise it wasn't that big of a surprise, but the actors all did a great job. Especially Mark Hamill, i'd say. My only issue is with the jokes and the charm that the first movie had either is gone or is kinda weak. Did not find the cute and fluffy bird-things that funny.
WaluigisHat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:54:03 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Luke, Rey & Ben storyline - A+ Pretty much everything else - C (with special mention to the awful Marvel-style โhumourโ between Poe & Hux, boy did that start me off on a bad note)
To sum it up in a letter grade, itโs a B and in a word, itโs frustration; the storyline I liked I absolutely loved, unfortunately it was wrapped up in all this other fluff that was kind of dumb or totally superfluous.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:43:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Watched it last night, it was pretty good, I donโt like it as much as force awakens which I walked out of the cinema loving right away and still do, This one was just....different. Itโs hard to explain. I guess itโs not a bad thing. It will take another viewing.
Side note I could have really done without all the Finn sub plot. They really donโt know what the hell to do with him. His character was fun and interesting in the force awakens but it felt so forced in this movie.
steakneggsdelicious ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:17:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm seeing a lot of hate for the Hyperspace Kamikaze maneuver by Holdo - I personally loved it and thought the scene was gorgeous. However, I'd really like to hear some justifications as to how it could, if at all, be consistent with the previous lore.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:47:02 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Its consistent with the First Order being the most inept force in the galaxy since such an insane plan works
SSF2_OW ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:57:41 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rebel: "I'm scared of the First Order" Me: "Why, they do nothing but die and they fail at everything they do?"
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:15:33 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This movie gets too much hate. People complained that TFA was too safe, and they gave us a film that is anything but safe. Sure some of the scenes don't work and I have some grievances, but it atleast challenges you.
The_Inner_Light ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:34:29 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Challenged me into finding reasons not to hate it even more.
mariusmule ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:08:21 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you liked this movie you arenโt a true fan. Itโs that simple.
Siglyr ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 16:47:41 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why are half the comments talking about "shitty Marvel movies" when it's different studios (yes Disney I know but still different people), and also Marvels are.. well, good? I'm so surprised at this thread. I'm surprised at the downvotes for people that liked the movie too.
tlvrtm ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:06:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think the main comparison comes from the constant quips characters have to make, that get in the way of any real emotion lingering for longer than 5 seconds, because -- hey look Porgs!!
Note: I didn't mind the Porgs too much. Yeah, they're for marketing purposes but they're in the movie for like a minute total. Nothing compared to Jar Jar Binks or the Jar-Jarring Plot in this movie.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:06:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You aren't allowed to like this movie.
If you are you are a paid shill apparently.
The circlejerk is real, these people are insufferable and will never be happy.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:19:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If anything, the fact that the comments saying they hate this movie are also often accompanied by comparisons to Marvel movies which are, in their opinion, also shit, leads me to believe I will love this move; if that makes sense?
Siglyr ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:28:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You make sense :) Same kind of comments that say the critics are paid and stuff like that
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:56:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah exactly.
I feel like there's just no pleasing those kinds of people.
jmann9678 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:46:09 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I loved this film, it took risks, it didn't go the way I thought it was going to and I loved it for it. Sure some of the humour was a little forced but it wasn't Jar-Jar Binks bad. People complain that TFA played it too safe but now TLJ takes risks and everyone hates it, there's no pleasing fans.
ScruffTheJanitor ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 01:01:25 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly I don't there will ever be a star wars movie again that everyone loves.
Too similar? Hate it. Too different? Hate it.
Not kids anymore so you see the plot holes, the bad pacing, the inconsistencies.
ww_brianboitano_d0 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 01:47:22 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think the fuss is more because people basically didn't like the story. If they liked it more they'd be willing to overlook the bad points.
I know I was hoping for more pay off from Reys origin. Her being a nobody would be fine, but I (like everyone else) got the impression they built it up to be a thing in TFA, so it just feels like a non pay off to me.
But hey, that seems to be one of the things a lot of people like about TLJ. I'm hoping its for a crazy twist episode IX.
ScruffTheJanitor ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:19:44 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did they build it up? Same as Snoke, it was probably built up more by the fans than the movie.
wolfgang187 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 01:47:23 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
We don't mind different, it just needs to be different and not stupid.
ScruffTheJanitor ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:19:07 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The originals were stupid too. You're just not a kid anymore so you see the plot holes and the bad acting/plot/pacing/comedy etc.
Kiboune ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:03:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Holdo was awesome!
talient ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:37:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So that's where blue milk comes from!
lankeymarlon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:37:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Iโm glad we finally found out where Blue Milk comes from.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:04:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
cwatz ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:32:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Haven't seen the movie yet, but that is what I take from it. Temporary misdirection so they can provide some sort of reveal later.
Either that or she was left detached so that she could romance the bloodline.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:48:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Would I like this movie if I hated TFA and Rogue One?
Minscota ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:49:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
no, you most likely will hate this one even more.
bedbugsex ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:53:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's nothing like Rogue One though. for the record I hated this and TFA probably equal amounts but loved Rogue one.
travestyofPeZ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:04:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How different would things have been if only Snoke had more than approximate knowledge of Kyloโs feelings?
elbenji ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:00:48 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My thinking is that everyone just running off saying Rey was a nobody has never had an abusive ex
gamemaniax ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:35:34 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
reminder: im not a star wars nerd
death of snoke was very anticlimactic. any reason why that can be easily done ? isn't he like somewhat powerful, pulling strings, overpowering two of them. afaik, darth maul survived with such injury.
what's that thing luke did at the end of the movie called ? battle meditation ?
eatsleeptroll ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:07:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
2.projection. actually a cool force power tho I highly suspect Snoke was lying when he said he'd created Reylo's connection as that's another form of projection imo
captionquirk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:43:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you're like me and haven't seen it yet but on here because you don't care about spoilers and want to gauge Reddit's reaction: remember that Reddit thought Rogue One was a good film. So yeah. I still have hope this is much better than what the audience here is saying.
SaltHallonet ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:12:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's always a certain amount of hype and hypster-positivists that will upboat it, probably shills too. In rogue one the positivists has something to go on, the cynics were intially quneched.
With this movie, the reality is so bad the hypesters dont have even a foothold
captionquirk ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:14:58 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
bold move
squirrelwatch ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:30:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rogue One was better than this disaster.
eff50 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:41:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rogue One was better than TFA.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:05:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Zombie Tarkin and Zombie Leia only picking up the Death Star plans instead of orchestrating it ruined it for me
gyutop ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:50:28 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Tarkin cgi was meh but Leia looked honestly real to me. And why are you letting two minor characters (at least in Rogue One) ruin it for you?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:10:43 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
it's wrong to resurrect the dead. and they didnt give permission it was their estates profiting off their deaths.
FireTrickle ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 22:49:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I just watched it, it was fun
It had major flaws but it was done well and was entertaining
The last scene with the random kid was totally cheesy
chris41336 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:25:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I felt disappointed at first, but then I realized there is still Episode IX which is ostensibly the "Skywalker Saga" - so I think that much of this movie will be turned on its head in the next one. Not all is as it seems, methinks.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 18:38:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
that's JJ's MO as in Lost, keep saying "I know this one wasn't satisfying, but just wait til the next one, and the one after that and so on". JJ was the architect of the franchise so I see 9 also being disappointing and being told just wait til episode 10 etc
meeyans ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:12:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
โstupid crapโ such as what? killing snoke was the best decision the sequels have ever made, because of fucking course kylo ren wouldโve done that. the film isnโt about snoke, it was a trick, the film is about kylo ren.
the only decision i believe could be percieved as โstupidโ is having leia float back into the ship through the force.
ThisIsMyRainCloud ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:19:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's not just because he died. It's because they built him up across the first film then in trailers and all he ever managed to do was bop Rey on the head with a lightsaber. It was necessary but somewhat annoying. People want to see his powers. What he can do.
Ratachu ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:16:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yep, I agree with you. The thing with Snoke is that JJ probably wanted a Palpatine character that wasent really needed at all I think.
traegario ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:03:28 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That last Luke scene was just amazing. I felt my heart beating harder than ever.
ajmurray94 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 12:08:05 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I had a feeling fans were going to hate this entry coming out. For me it was a great ride that is deserves a 9/10. What let it down for me was two aspects that being Snoke and his death which left no answers for his backstory. Also I did not like Finn/Rose/DJ's side plot, it ultimately felt pointless and they could have just snuck onto the ship without the casino nonsense. Other than that it was an amazing film that had some great plot twists along the way. As much as I would have loved to see a Kylo/Rey team up, they have set it up nicely for a big showdown going into 9.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 03:24:02 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I havenโt read one all out positive post and Iโve been reading for awhile, I canโt believe Iโm saying this but I donโt care.... downvotee...I loved it.
[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 01:36:58 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Some of the comments in this thread are so melodramatic it's unreal
tggoulart ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 17:21:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I must have been the only one that isn't complaining about the humor, it had way less than TFA. When did it go overboard? Aside from the opening scene with hux
SaltHallonet ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:28:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When did it go overboard? The opening scene which was pure spaceballs? It might aswell have been iron man on the call with the supposedly smart leader of the galaxys most dangerous fleet
howbloodygoodismilk ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:34:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Han Solo would of done exactly that to Hux before getting over the conversation and shooting the comms system.
People seem to forget how corny some of his lines were. I enjoy them all but the hypocrisy here is real.
tggoulart ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:28:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Dude, I said aside from that scene.
SaltHallonet ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:38:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Luke brushing of the artillery against him? It was his going out battle but the suspense just had to be suspended becuase ITS FUNNY AND EASY GOING FROM NOW ON MY CONSUMERS
I just wish you would stick to marvel movies, instead of turning everything else into them
RyonRykal ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:09:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My theory: Snoke is not dead! I think that Snoke was either just a force projection of the real Snoke (similar to what Luke did near the end, but way more powerful) OR that Snoke was just a body braincontrolled by the real Snoke.
Snoke was WAY too powerful, to just die like that. Snoke will return in the next movie.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:27:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
There is only one reason why the movie kill off Snoke. They don't know how to write the backstory of Snoke. He was the rebirth of the Sith and probably the reason why the First Order rose from ashes of the Empire. But that's the problem. If he's that powerful, where was he during OT and prequels? Darth Plagueis seems to be the most plausible answer but it won't make any sense to the general audience. I don't blame Rian Johnson for this, it's entirely JJ Abrams's fault. TFA should have at least explained the rise of First Order and Resistance army during those 30 years span.
If what you say is true, I doubt that the movie will reveal Snoke's backstory. He is just going to be a mysterious Sith lord. With that being said I don't even know who's the main villain in the trilogy if Snoke really is dead. Kylo Ren is far too weak and vulnerable to the light side. I hope we don't get another redemption story like Darth Vader.
nilxnoir ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:04:41 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I liked this movie but I didn't love it unfortunately A big part of this was Rose and her and Finns side plot. As far as I'm concerned she is the Jar Jar of this film.
BioregenerativeLamp ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 05:36:38 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
To me it was flawed but it felt like a consequence of the context of the film rather than a fault of the creators, but the good outweighed the bad, at least for me. I like that it wasn't a rehash and that I didn't just predict the whole movie by the start of it much more than I disliked the Leia Popping scene and the forced hey-buy-these-cute-plushies. To me that alone was better than TFA when anyone knew what was going to happen from the set up of the movie.
Let's be honest, there it could be a Star Wars movie directed by Jesus with a buget of 500 million dollars that came with an electrode that provided orgasms throughout its runtime and still it would left some fans totally disappointed. I applaud that it had some vision, some intent of telling a story rather than a cold company safe inoffensive montage of predictable bits. ย
spoilt_exile ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:33:08 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Bombers is a joke. They are too massive and too slow to pass throught defense fire. They should be having powerful deflector shield and use deflector interference effect (deflector power increases in tight formation) but they explodes from single shot.
deathtotheemperor ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 16:24:38 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
r/movies will hate it and downvote everyone who doesn't hate it. Most everyone else will love it.
I thought it was okay. It was a high-risk effort that didn't quite work out. It's not the movie I would have made, but I can appreciate what they were trying to do.
Minscota ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:31:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
r/movies loved the first one of the trilogy and anyone who said otherwise was roasted last time around. Bullshit.
SaltHallonet ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:46:20 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They loved the first one becuase they couldnt accept the truth: it was already then apparent that disney was gonna kill it all
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 16:40:21 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:31:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I just love that tracking shot through the casino going over the different tables
heyitsmejosh ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 02:43:59 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I enjoyed the movie, glad i went to see it as soon as possible. will probably go see it again this weekend
ThatFuckingTurnip ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 11:40:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Disregarding the divisive story elements for a moment, I just want to give credit to the amazing creature designs in the film. Everything from the nuns on Ahch-To to the crystal foxes on the salt planet. Even the Porgs which i thought might be overdone from the promotional stuff ended up being quite endearing.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 12:08:57 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yet once again they avoided using any classic aliens that weren't Ackbar, Chewie or Nien Nunb. Having a Hutt and some Twi'leks on Casino World would have been perfect.
cmcpress ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 16:51:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I'm just back from seeing it - It most definitely is better than Rogue One and TFA, but it's also the most Disneyfied - I mean if Disney made a propaganda film that was meant to convince a population on the brink of a War to send their children into the meat grinder - this is that film.
It's in turns like Harry Potter, Doctor Who, The Phantom Menace, a 1940's war movie, the Last Samurai and a modern Chinese epic action fantasy wushu movie. As Star Wars goes - it's a great tribute to Carrie Fisher, and her ghost haunts this movie (despite the cringey force user scene).
That is to say that I came out of feeling a little mixed - part of me thinks it's brilliant, and part of me thinks it's sappy, manipulative and with some shockingly bad CGI in places.
The plotting is great, the visuals are mostly amazing, and for a franchise known for dodgy dialogue, this doesn't disappoint. It probably had the greatest emotional impact of all the movies in places - but that emotional impact almost seemed plastic... Disneyfied, again, is probably the best adjective here.
The overall story is well thought out, even the stuff that could have been Ewoks II doesn't overstay its welcome - and some of the stuff that had been built up previously just fizzled out. It IS overlong, they could have lost the B-story which goes nowhere and has very little ramifications, despite how charming the two characters are.
There is humor in this - but it feels kinda cheap - sometimes letting all the air out of a scene as if it's afraid of getting a bit too dramatic.. I expect people will love the humor all the same, precisely for that reason.
It's very kiddyish - In places it seemed to be aimed at the same audience as Caravan of Courage - which seemed a bit incongruous in places, considering the large numbers of deaths in the franchise, and the heavy war setting - so in that respect, and many others, it's like a mashup of the prequel trilogy and the original trilogy.
The politics of the film are pretty on the nose without much subtlety (cough General Social Jutice complete with died hair being a victim of mansplaining) - but it seems afraid to follow its own convictions through - one character in particular being left off the hook and patted on the head despite being quite obviously, from the perspective of the film, a mutineering prick.
There is a running theme of role models that runs through the whole film, and the final, and most Disney scene smashes you over the head with that message - like Orko delivering a lecture after He-man, which - after an all round pretty good film left a bit of a sour taste in the mouth.
This is probably what I should have expected from Disney Star Wars - far more than TFA and further from Rogue One. On one hand a competently made film from a talented director, on the other hand a masterful exercise in manipulation.
tlvrtm ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:00:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Uh... why would Disney do that? And how is that "Disneyfied"?
cmcpress ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:43:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm saying if there were ever a situation where they would... Like those propaganda war films \ cartoons in the 40s... Bugs bunny beating up Hitler and all that. I mean look at the kid wearing the rebel ring at the end.. If that doesn't make you uncomfortable...
BoogieTheHedgehog ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:42:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
I think people are just finding similarities between this film and the traditional "Disney/Marvel" film type. Notably a stupidly weak villain role and some Marvel styled humour dotted around the film. Also Porgs are a pretty blatant Disney mascot, they have a few good moments but for the most part are just the brunt of jokes that fall kinda flat. I can't complain about Porgs because they're barely in the movie at all, but obviously were created for marketing.
By no means is this the same as a typical Marvel/Disney movie - it's still undeniably Star Wars. Hell, I'm pretty sure the two movies are produced by different studios. But it's the first time that a Star Wars film has notably taken elements from a typical modern Marvel film and used them, and the result is pretty jarring. The humour is the one thing I see most reviews talking about, where some feels almost ripped directly from a Guardians of the Galaxy script.
cmcpress ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:47:33 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Pretty much that, plus the Children in the series were idealised slightly, like young Anakin from TPM.... Like they were going for a spielbergian thing but without the depth so they end up like kids from a 70s Disney film.
Kristin_W ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 18:41:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone know where I can download/watch this movie? I don't have the opportunity to see it in the cinema and it's going to take months before it's released elsewhere.
gopivot ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 17:48:50 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
god damn people does really hate this movie ,i feel like i have shit taste in movies because i like the film :/
after the film finish i thought to myself "that feel pretty weird" "some people gonna really hate this movie for sure" but damn i didn't expect this much lol
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:01:39 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
gopivot ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:17:54 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
thank for the replied! is it what fan of bvs feel like during the all the hate train?
it just that I keep thinking why i'm okay and like some of the part that people really hate it and yeah it probably because my own preference but I just keep wondering about it
Svarec ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:50:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I like the movie too, but I'm not blind to its flaws. And there are a lot of flaws. I'm honestly curious how it will do on IMDB or RT user score. The stellar reviews will have people totally hyped and I feel like this movie will dissappoint a lot of people.
gopivot ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:53:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
yeah and i mean looking back now how does this film has such a high reviews when people didn't like the film this much? (i know it just reddit but that isn't too far off)
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:01:48 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The thing you should remember is that Star Wars is on this otherworldly tier, where no other movie franchise has reached, and the expectations for it are vast and different for everybody. I've honestly learned not to listen to reviews specifically for Star Wars because it's such a crap-shoot.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 12:03:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Polarizing film, that's for sure. I don't think it's flawed, it's just that you either love the direction it's taking Star Wars or you hate it. It's not objectively amazing and it's not objectively terrible, though it's certainly also not objectively mediocre. Very strange situation for a film to be in.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 13:54:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
duma347 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 20:56:23 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not the only one that thinks snoke is coming back am I? He could link two force users together across the galaxy and drag someone across the floor also whilst being across the galaxy. You're telling me he can't also save himself from death? You know that thing that was hinted at in the prequels with the whole Darth Plageuis part?
jonnywithoutanh ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 00:19:41 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like Luke probably should have said "hey guys, there's a secret passage out the back" rather than hoping they guess it.
ScruffTheJanitor ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:23:18 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But he didn't know because he didn't use it because he wasn't really there
jonnywithoutanh ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:57:19 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Fair point. But then, what was his plan?
ScruffTheJanitor ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:17:29 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
? To distract the enemy so everyone could escape. As they did.
jonnywithoutanh ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:03:50 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Right but if he didn't know there was a back entrance, how did he think they were going to escape? Don't you think he should have told them that was the plan?
ScruffTheJanitor ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:03:08 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I dunno. His plan was possibly just to distract them and hope they came up with a plan to escape.
[deleted] ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 19:09:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
All the top comments in this thread are a list of complaints. The movie was smart, funny, intense, and touching where it needed to be. It was better written and acted than any previous Star Wars movie. It was fun.
Yeesh, the fandom for this franchise has become so fucking whiny and toxic.
SaltHallonet ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:22:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Empire commander cant realize hes being made fun of
I've seen a lot of grasping at straws in this thread but this takes the prize
Falling bombs in outer space
Bombs take out entire ships becuase their HQ is always outaide without any armour
Ackbar dies offscreen
The whole casino plot leading nowhere
Protagonists fighting becuase they dont talk
Open airlocks that bombs fall thru
Leia superman scene
Im not even gonna bother going on
This movie is NOT smart
bedbugsex ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:38:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They also always have to lead to the entire ship blowing up.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 19:26:11 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Your comment has literally zero punctuation, so clearly you're the authority on what's smart.
SaltHallonet ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:29:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You got so rekt by my points your only defence was to go for my writing instead
Typical!
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 19:30:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You didn't make any points.
SaltHallonet ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:38:53 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You can say that but it still just further shows your a confused teen, a fool or a shill, and for your sake I hope for first!
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:41:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm neither of those things. I'm just a movie fan who is mature enough to recognize that space opera does not need realism, or airtight plotting.
I think you mean "you're."
SaltHallonet ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:44:55 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well, we can atleast agree that the writing wasn't airtight.
Now go on, just be aware that you are the kind of person who attacks peoples english online, a language that isnt necessarily their first language, instead of facing their points when they don't agree with you. God help you!
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:46:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yup! The same has been true of every Star Wars movie.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 13:35:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
scrubbed
RobertElessar ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 13:47:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How do you grow the legacy if you literally make the OT pointless with all the characters having done everything for no reason when we are back at Rebels vs Empire with rookie Jedi as the New Hope. Why are we rehashing this shit?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:59:59 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
scrubbed
ThaneKyrell ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 13:53:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wow, the ammount of hate this movie is getting is surprising me. I liked it a lot. Rey and Kylo interactions were great, all scenes Luke was in were great, the humor was amazing, I liked Snoke's death (even if I did think they totally wasted a character they had built for 2 movies), Luke facing Kylo was incredible.
I hated however Rose and Finn. I hated their stupid casino subplot, I hated the kiss, I hated her character. I felt like this movie would be MUCH better had they allowed Leia do die destroying the fleet and Finn or Rose to sacrifice to destroy the cannon. Seriously, fuck Rose
dino_wang ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 15:51:35 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Forgive me for my English, cause I'm from Taiwan XD I really really like this movie. To me, it brought the franchise back to its core, which to me is HOPE. Stripped of all the things that made the saga iconic(Skywalker, the force, lightsaber, etc), the thing that draws people the most is the idea that hope can keep you strong, evil will never defeat good because we have hope. The movie kept emphasizing at "forget about all those things that you remember", like Luke throw away the lightsaber that Rey gave him, Snoke talking about Kylo Ren's "ugly mask"(or something like that), Yoda coming back only to burn down all that was left of the Jedi temple, and the fact that Rey is just a nobody, I think all that is Rian Johnson wanting to bring Star Wars back to its root, and to me, he did a damn good job of that. The whole setting of the movie really gives you a feeling of desperation, and that is essentially what the rebel is about, they always find hope in the most unlikely situation. And that last shot is the icing on the cake for me, I can only imagine that was Rian Johnson grabbing a broomstick as a lightsaber when he first saw the original trilogy, pure magic of cinema. So, for all those reasons, I can look past some issues that everyone in this thread has bought up and thoroughly enjoy this movie, at least after my first viewing lol 8.5/10
8MileAllstars ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:29:40 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/0/star-wars-last-jedi-spoilers-big-questions-meaning-ending/
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:47:56 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
PavlikNej ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:01:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:00:04 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
Agrees_withyou ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:00:07 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I concur.
voivod1989 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:11:39 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Is Kylo ren still a cry baby?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:27:35 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He's a Supreme Leader now, after he cut Snoke in half in the middle of the movie.
voivod1989 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:30:48 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did he almost cry when he killed him?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:46:55 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
so cry boy?
Schaafwond ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 08:38:24 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Aside from a few cringy moments and those minion-like hamsterducks I really liked it. This movie just didn't give a fuck and pulled the rug out from under the audience, and I applaud the creators for it. They were basically saying "Oh, TFA was too predictable? Well here you go then!"
GeneralShowzer ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:13:24 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
snoke got killed in the exact same way the emperor did, in the exact same scenario... just because it happened in the second movie instead of the third it doesn't make it original or groundbreaking
Schaafwond ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 12:37:11 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think you have a very liberal definition of 'exact same'.
GeneralShowzer ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:43:52 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
It's all plan of the emperors master plan and he shows up personally to finish off the rebels. Luke tries to talk down Vader because he sees the good in him...Vader refuses to listen to reason takes him to the emperor. Luke is a about to die and Vader kills the emperor..
...There's even this exact specific moment where Snoke shows Rey how hopeless it is and all her friends will die...it was the exact same thing.
Schaafwond ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:22:37 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's similar, but not "exact same".
rebb1t ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 23:41:51 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This was waaaaay better Empire Strikes Back
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:45:00 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Your comment supports my view that this movie has more appeal to people who don't like Star Wars
rebb1t ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:00:33 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Fk u, this is the new Star Wars jack. Take ur boba fetts and greedos and shove em up ur tatooine
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:07:47 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
https://youtu.be/2Z4m4lnjxkY
Vlauer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:09:30 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not in a milion years
Thordenhime ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 12:49:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a comitted star wars fan seen nearly all the films in the cinema and I loved it! people moaned about rey being a mary sue in force awakens and this was deffo the most we've seen her struggle the kylo ren turn was classic sith apprentice turning on the master the whole luke skywalker projection was well done aswell yeah their was a bit of forced humour but there was alot of well done humour aswell people just love to moan
blambliab ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 21:35:42 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I loved how they turned things on their head with Snoke and Kylo. Most of us expected Snoke to be the main bad guy in this trilogy, and Kylo to be the conflicted puppet, a wannabe Vader, who'll eventually turn or be killed. Taking out Snoke only to take his place and turn on Rey made Kylo a great villain imo. I can't wait to see where they will go with those two in episode 9.
RiceandBeansandChees ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 22:06:29 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It just made Snoke a shit one.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 02:55:48 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:04:46 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not an argument
[deleted] ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 20:47:12 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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NotTheBees_ARGH ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 21:10:27 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The movie is way too long, has an entire plot line that goes nowhere and means nothing (just so they could have an asian on the film to pander to the chinese market), completely and irrevocably destroys Luke Skywalker's character just so Rey can shine a little bit more and has some of the worst character deaths in the entire franchise. Also it throws several unexplained plot points from TFA into the trash.
This is not a great movie by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, it's easily the worst Star Wars film since Attack of the Clones.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:23:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
first Han, now Luke and Ackbar (and Leia Poppins). Disney is ruining the OT.
bunnymud ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:25:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Pimp Disney put Star Wars on the corner.
[deleted] ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 21:14:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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NotTheBees_ARGH ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:18:47 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Finn's entire subplot wastes an hour of the fucking film and means nothing. It could've easily been cut and it would affect nothing. Luke's death is horribly anti-climatic and a horrible send-off to the true hero of the franchise, and one of the most well known ficitional characters ever. I felt disgusted watching it.
Also, they fucking killed General Ackbar.
accaris ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 13:59:25 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This film apparently only has a 13% on Reddittomatoes
SthrnCrss ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:02:36 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
10 minutrs until the movie starts in mh teather. Please be fucking awesome, let our proud guyd in white put an end to the ressistance scum.
cookeharry ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 14:59:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Screw the haters. Not a perfect film by any means, but when "TIE Fighter Attack" cued in on Crait I was grinning like a child. Can't wait to see it again.
mysaadlife ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 05:25:58 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm reading these comments and I'm wondering we saw the same movie, I really enjoyed it. It wasn't perfect but I thought it was mostly great.
Brandon_2149 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:33:22 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Iโm conflicted honestly. I loved everything except how Luke was done and sent off.
mysaadlife ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:48:12 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I gotta disagree there, I loved the tribute and binary sunset playing was perfect to me. I didnt think he needed to die but he'll be back as a force ghost.
Brandon_2149 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:50:58 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In a way it was better. He didnโt give kylo the satisfaction of killing him in person.
DrSmersh ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 05:43:27 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
God I cant tell you how much i HATED ep7, couldnt finish rogue one.
BUT THIS, BOY THIS BROUGHT ME HOPE FOR THE SERIES AGAIN, loved so so much, I went in expecting so little and came out very happy. Great movie, thanks new director for saving the movie franchise
Siglyr ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 13:15:44 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Damn, a lot of criticism in this thread. I thought the movie was great. The only thing I didn't like was the casino planet subplot, but it was just ...ok, not horrible or anything. They took a lot of risks and liberties and I liked that, it takes balls! It still felt like a Star Wars movie and there are very few that can take me on such a rollercoaster of emotions. It's Star Wars, so I think the expectations are great, but at the end of the day it's just a movie, and it was a good one.
A lot of people have problems with the death of Snoke. I thought it made sense; it's Rey and Kylo's turn, and I didn't want another Emperor/Vader story and dynamic. The Leia skywalking scene was weirdly shot admittedly but it's not a movie-ruining thing, come on. It was great to see her use the Force and see how powerful everyone is in the Skywalker family.
Idk a lot of people are taking things personally when a movie isn't tailored to their exact expectations.
El-mas-puto-de-todos ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 23:51:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
ITT: people finding literally anything bad to say about the movie. Did anyone ever claim the saga was a masterpiece?
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:54:32 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)*
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[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:59:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
not at Disney World
bunnymud ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:03:26 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A lot of reviews over on RT
blaineh2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:58:13 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly, i don't particularly love marvel movies but they are way more entertaining and have less problems than this movie
TLJ has flaws and for some they are major
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:43:37 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It had the highest RT score of the franchise last time I looked.
nicroni ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 13:48:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I loved the movie yet I'm so conflicted at the same time. I agree with George Lucas in that it was beautifully made, but I'm not so sure how I feel about the character's directions -- mainly Luke.
I'm seeing it again tomorrow; maybe I'll have a more solid opinion on it.
mikahebat ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:50:06 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Man that Poe vs Dreadnought scene. Gives me Char vibes. A shame his X-Wing is not red. :P
socks888 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:33:16 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Jus wanna say at least they made a movie which is difficult to spoil...
No OMG-WTF moments but just the right pacing and enough things happening to keep it entertaining. No fan service either jus a normal story (which in some ways is a good thing)
highway_robbery82 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:58:08 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'd say the only big potential spoiler (aside from who does/doesn't die and the plot outline) is that
shaneo632 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:59:19 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone notice any cool Easter eggs? I saw Gareth Edwards next to the salt guy on Crait.
mattyglen87 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 20:49:10 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rey definitely had more dark side vibes in this one, lots of anger. Was hoping that the parents reveal would be what pushed her over the edge
BboyEdgyBrah ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 13:04:17 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Man some of yall are obviously whining for the sake of whining. That's what you get for trying to make something out of the Star Wars franchise that it isn't. In your head it's super complex and youthink up amazing theories but it is, and always has been a campy movie for all ages, and all levels of fandom. I thought it was amazing, enjoyed every second of it. I can see the flaws but i don't care. Overanalyzing will kill your enjoyment of just about anything.
RobertElessar ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:17:43 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
yeah that's not how art works.
BboyEdgyBrah ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:20:01 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
/r/gatekeeping
ur cringey dude, go outside
Brandon_2149 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 08:36:29 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Empire was hated when it came out. You all are going to end up on the wrong side of history.
The_Inner_Light ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 09:32:39 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You're high. Proof that empire was paned?
Bolieve_That ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 12:03:45 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"See you later, kiddo"
My panty dropped and I don't even had one
Ceez92 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 16:55:49 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone want to bet that planned trilogy might involve Snoke in some way or form? If not we'll probably get backstory on him through books which honestly is a cop out.
montell088 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:57:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I wouldnt want to see him again. The guy went out like a chump. He's the Jar Jar Binks of the Sith. Embarrassing.
Ceez92 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:05:26 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's my point, they might trying adding backstory through some other media or he stays a nobody like Rey
pmmemoviestills ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 01:51:22 on December 15, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You people are silly
carlosboshell ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 15:25:15 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is excellent... The criticism about TFA: "Is a reboot of a New hope, we want something new" TLJ does something new: "Shut up Disney, this isn't a marvel movie, we don't want this new things."
wolfgang187 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:27:24 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
New didn't have to mean 2 very weak deaths, a runtime thats too long, and no duels, did it? It can't JUST be different, it also has to be goods and watchable.
PavlikNej ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:28:46 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So there are only 2 ways of making Star Wars movie? Either totally copy the plot of an existing one or make something which doesn't respect previous movies at all.
cwatz ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:29:52 on December 14, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That also implies its the same people commenting. There are a lot of people on the internet.