I have seen that logic before in person. Nothing bad I do is my fault because the devil was really doing it in my body. He was extremely religious too. I don't get it.
[deleted] ยท 1240 points ยท Posted at 14:41:01 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, no. It's not their fault, it's still the devil's fault for doing that bad deed, it's the persons fault for not acknowledging that they need the lord to help them resist the devil and his wicked ways.
That's the logic when yelling at others, source - grew up around so many of these kids.
Similarly, the "I'm not perfect, but I'm forgiven" approach. Most of these people abandoned trying to be Christ-like long ago when they realized that religion hands you your very own get out of jail free card - so long as you're a believer.
You don't have to convince me, it's just an outside observation from a nonbeliever. It can be attributed to any religion, I just see it most with Christians because I live in the US south.
KANG2012 ยท 149 points ยท Posted at 18:06:20 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Christians like those are what led me to question the church and become an athiest.
Sobsz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:04:18 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Get a new one. I recommend Slide for Reddit.
[deleted] ยท 73 points ยท Posted at 18:37:48 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"Christians" like those give genuine Christians a bad name (I'm not saying Christians are perfect people) . The whole "devil made me do it!" is such a load of bull. People have a free will and that man chose to do that disgusting act and used the devil as a scapegoat. Its just wrong on so many levels.
"Genuine Christians." Man, that's a No True Scotsman fallacy. They're still Christians (because they believe in Jesus and all that), they're just idiots as well.
Yes, but in reality, being a Christian simply requires you to believe in God and in Jesus as "your savior" or whatever. The only way someone is a "fake Christian" is by falsely claiming to believe in Jesus, which is something only that person can be aware of.
Michamus ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 19:39:11 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is known as the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. You're no more a true Christian than they are. They have their interpretation and you have yours.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:55:42 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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Michamus ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:06:12 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Interesting youโd use the Ten Commandments as an example of โclear cutโ. Do you know there are actually over two hundred commandments, most of which you donโt follow? The ten were simply the first.
That's where part of the Jew/Christian divide is. Christians say there were two laws: the Moral Law and the Ceremonial Law. The Moral Law is summarized in the Ten Commandments, and even further summarized in the New Testament by Jesus: "Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself." The Moral Law gives the absolute morality: these commandments have never been retracted or changed, and (for Christians and Jews) remain as true when they were first given them as they are now.
The Ceremonial Law covers the massive collection of rules that the books of Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. These were given for multiple reasons. First, they wrapped up the Moral Law in additional laws that, if you followed, would ensure you would also follow the Moral Law. After all, if you were instructed to return your neighbor's stray cattle, you wouldn't be stealing them. These laws also provided the Israelites redemption for when they do break the law, detailed in many sacrifices depending on the sin. In addition, many of the laws (no mixed fibers in clothes, keeping to certain feasts, etc.) served to differentiate the Israelites from the rest of the world.
So why do Christians not follow the Ceremonial Law, then (or rather, why do we no longer have to)? First and foremost is the idea that Jesus was sent to fulfill the law and serve as the final and perfect sacrifice to fulfill sin. Under the Ceremonial Law your sins were removed by sacrificing clean animals, such as doves and lambs. However, it was not perfect: if you sinned again, you'd have to come back to the temple next week and do another sacrifice. Because Jesus was perfect (did not sin) and was human, he made the sacrifice complete. Nobody has to sacrifice a bull to clear their sins, they're already cleared.
Second, God's people were no longer restricted to the Jews. Because there was no longer any distinction between Jew and Greek, Man and Woman, Slave and Master, etc., there was no need to keep that people separate.
So yes there is a ton of potential for confusion in the Bible, especially if you do not take the chance to read through the whole context. But at the same time there remains a few key points that, "true" Christians would argue, are the essentials that must be followed.
Michamus ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:28:26 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It doesn't dispute the fact that there are hundreds of rules in the Old Testament, but it disputes the context and the implication. Correct me if I'm wrong, but your intent on mentioning that was to show that "following the Bible" is an action that's open to opinion, as opposed to there being a specific litmus test that a Christian must follow to be considered a Christian. My point was to ratify yours, then. If you follow the Moral and Ceremonial Law, you're a Jew. If you follow the Moral Law but not the Ceremonial Law, you're a christian.
Michamus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:36:40 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but your intent on mentioning that was to show that "following the Bible" is an action that's open to opinion
Yes. Your response that there's a dispute among Biblical adherents about following the Bible confirmed my statement.
Except the Bible isn't considered truth by Jews. They only follow the Torah (the first five books) as truth, and other Old Testament books for psalms and history. They do not accept Jesus as the savior, they do not consider the laws fulfilled, so they continue under what Christians call "the Old Law" while they wait for the Messiah. Therefore, they are not Christians, but Jews.
Michamus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:40:54 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Except the Bible isn't considered truth by Jews.
Which is irrelevant, given the context is about the Torah.
It is relevant. The context by which the Jews subside is wholly within the Torah. Christianity includes Jesus's teachings which overrode a lot of what the Torah taught (Would you not save your trapped donkey on the Sabbath? Render unto Caesar, etc.). The Christian context requires the entirety of the Bible. Otherwise, the savior did not come and all Christians should still be following the Ceremonial Law.
Michamus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:48:16 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It is relevant. The context by which the Jews subside is wholly within the Torah.
Right and we're talking about the Torah. Discussing differing interpretations between Jewish and Christian authors and leaders only further establishes my point
The Torah consists of five books: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Number, and Deuteronomy. The Bible contains all that and more. Christians believe that Jesus Christ, the savior of the world, was born, lived without sin, was crucified and resurrected. He and, as Christians believed, God-inspired apostles taught that the Ceremonial Laws did not need to be followed: circumcision was no longer the mark of a saved Christian. All that context is ignored by the Jewish faith, who deny that the following happened or should be considered.
What you're saying is like if I said that Physicists are inconsistent because Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein derived different theories of the world. The truth is the Einstein revised what Newton had done, and added onto his work with more context (that is, evidence).
Michamus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:59:54 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The main difference being that scientific discovery is objective, whereas religious texts are anything but. Christianity isn't a new development in truth. It's a change in interpretation.
That's how you view it, not a person who considers the Bible to be truth.
Michamus ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 23:13:35 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Your opinion doesn't change the subjective nature of the Bible. There's no demonstrable truth in the Bible.
IcarusBen ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:47:00 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
/u/Altair1371 , as far as I can tell, is making his statements from the viewpoint of somebody who views the Bible as truth, not making a statement as to the actual validity of the text. His metaphor is a little iffy, but it works on a basic level.
Michamus ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:21:39 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This relies heavily on opinion being equal to evidence, which is a pretty unworkable assertion. Any time anything in the Bible that can be tested has been tested, the Bible fails. We know the Earth isn't flat, that God doesn't control the weather, that there's not a dome over the Earth, prayer doesn't work (and according to studies can actually make things worse), etc. Asserting the Bible has any objective truth to it is not only unfounded but contrary to everything we actually know.
IcarusBen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:44:03 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
facepalm.
That is the opposite of what I said. I explicitly said it didn't make a statement on the Bible's validity. He is not asserting the Bible has truth to it, he's making his statements from the point of view of somebody who believes it's truth.
Michamus ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:13:33 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And Iโm responding to that belief.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:39:20 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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Michamus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:27:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's certainly one interpretation.
coltninja ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:57:08 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Some would say these views are heretical. Everything is open to interpretation in my book, but not so for every version of Christianity. It's all made up anyways.
Stonedbtw ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:53:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Same here, but agnostic. The hypocrisy was just too much for me to handle.
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 18:58:02 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Unfortunately this is all too common. People use Christians (other people) as a basis for what it means to live for Christ. What it REALLY means is to have unconditional love for EVERYONE. Unfortunately we are all broken humans and will ALWAYS let you down. Donโt let people be your judge of Christ, let Christ be the judge! God is nothing but love! But humans will always fail. Always. No matter how hard we try we will never live up to the impossibly high standard of living like Christ.
Nothing but love? Ever read a book called the bible? That Zod chick is a smite-happy bastard. Jealous and quick to trigger, and will drown a world and fuck a dude up with any provocation, then throw a fucker's immortal s oul into an eternal fire bath for all of eternity, no take-backs, and walk off a whistling like no big deal...Nothing but love? Shit...look what he did to Satan for just getting a bit miffed about giving the monkeys souls...
If you believe the devil has control over your body, then you must banish him instead of blame him. It is you who let the evil remain. The devil cannot be completely at fault for your lack of spirit.
O_Apples ยท 33 points ยท Posted at 18:16:18 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's the funny part. Being a Christian should be about be changed to being Christ like. People on the other hand use Christianity as justification for them being an asshole.
I don't care what anyone thinks because only God can judge me.
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 19:05:30 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I prefer God's lost Commandment #11 : "Do thy best to not be a cunt"
I hear it was lost in the King James translation but is the basic point to the original doctrine .
True Christians fought lions in the arena and talked while burning bush . They were the worlds first hippie bros.
Jesus , he wasn't walking on water , he was surfing . The dude just wants you to shred and not be a douche , amen.
what kind of waves do you think hell has if the saying is "the fiery pits of hell". oh well. FUCK IT IM GOING IN WOODEN
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:14:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well I actually believe hell is filled with water I mean the whole idea of Hell in the Bible is written in a very creative hard translate language from the perspective of potential Christians. Really when I think about it what would you say about your enemies house probably not good things I don't think he'll is quite the image that has been painted for us and I haven't had time to read the Satanic Bible myself to find out what they say I'm betting they paint their own image of it but truthfully probably not a great place but fire lakes and all that old imagery. I don't believe in that. If hell is supposed to be misery I think it would just be more ironic for the place but they would be water but it would just be really salty or something.
[deleted] ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 18:06:57 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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Saiing ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 19:16:42 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
At no point does Jesus say anything about penance. Repentance (being sorry and asking for forgiveness) sure, but there is no stipulation that you have to do some special act in order to gain God's forgiveness. It's primarily a Catholic creation and doesn't even appear in many commonly used versions of the Bible.
All you need to do is repent and be truly sorry and you can enter the kingdom of heaven. Jesus couldn't have been more clear about that.
(not a religious person myself, but I come from a very religious background and have read the Bible several times cover to cover)
Oh, so rapists, murderes, child molesters all get to go to heaven if they repent and are truly sorry? I find that repugnant. Ill pass on any heaven that allows such things.
Saiing ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:15:43 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Most churches recognize things like pedophilia and a propensity to rape to be defects in the human condition caused by the presence of sin. In heaven you are given a new body which is unaffected by sin, and the sinful parts ablated and left behind/destroyed.
Which is why penance is such a heavy-handed theme in Catholicism.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:32:30 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Under certain (rare and outlying) interpretations, yes you do. I've heard sola fide invoked in that context.
slothen2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:23:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's not rare. I think that's most protestant denominations.
Michamus ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:37:28 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lots of Christians seem to think so. In fact, most Christians I know view Christ's atonement as for all sins, regardless whether you repent. They view believing as recognizing Christ's sacrifice, which is necessary for grace to occur.
This whole position seemed pretty ridiculous to me and I started to doubt my recollection. So, I decided to google it. Here's the first result on google:
You may make mistakes and even be stupid and fall into sin. Do you need to ask for forgiveness? No. Can you tell God you messed up? By all means. Can you tell God you are sorry? By all means. Can you tell God to forgive you? By all means, but he will tell you, you already have forgiveness of sins.
I can only talk from a Catholic perspective, but the only way you're getting forgiveness is through repentance, and that doesn't mean just saying you're sorry. Truly understanding, accepting your wrongs and working to make amends.
Other denominations are different than Catholicism. I know lots of evangelicals who have that belief, that Jesus paid for all their sins and all you have to do is believe. Same people often then tell the gays they're going to hell, so who the fuck knows how they reconcile that hypocrisy.
scyth3s ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:01:36 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You do though in their religion
Mint-Chip ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:58:30 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Careful I think statements like that contributed to the 200 years of war after the Protestant reformation.
Eddol ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:31:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I like to see it as a children's sports event. Everyone gets the same prize, no matter their accomplishments, though the kids will still give their best effort in the competition. That's how it's supposed to be anyway. Seems like everyone didn't quite get it.
Yaya46 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:57:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How about " God knows my heart"
So God knows you are a fucktard ? Got it!
I'm taking religious studies and I get what you're saying. It's a mandatory class but it's actually interesting because at first I'd scoff and be like "doesn't work like that idiot." But religious studies for all religions (not just Christianity) gives you a broad idea of the "world" these people are. Sacred ultimately means real, what is real. God is real, this place is real, these books are real. It helps things like not having repeats of Waco.
Tsulaa ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 17:31:53 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think Comparative Religion courses should start to be a part of our education system's curriculums by 3rd grade. I think it frightens the religious "normies" too much to happen any time soon, tho.
Rottimer ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 17:45:54 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I can see the headlines now. "Liberal politician wants Sharia taught in classroom."
I have seen that reaction in that exact circumstance within the past 5 years, via the news
Tsulaa ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:00:31 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
lol. Sadly enough, you're probably right!
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:42:58 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think if you taught kids about all the religions of the world you'd end up with more atheists and religion would become less and less relevant. I think more and more kids would realize that the only reason they believe their particular religion is because they were born into it.
Not that I think it should be taught in the first place. I think kids should be learning practical things they actually need to know. For example, health. I never had a health class in 3rd grade, just little tidbits about germs and shit. We have a lot of medical knowledge in our modern society; why are we still teaching kids about religions and social studies and other stupid shit?
Tsulaa ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:57:12 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was taught both Health and Comparative Religion during 7th & 8th grades in public school. Health was part of the PE curriculum, & Comp Religion was part of Social Studies; however, it was limited to the "Big Five" (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, & Buddhism). I wasn't being indoctrinated to subscribe to any of them. I had long questioned the one into which I had been born, anyways. It didn't make me an atheist (that came later), but I do recall realizing religion was all just so arbitrary & ridiculous & none of them were worth killing for. How is that a bad thing for kids to learn in school?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:21:16 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think it's a bad thing for kids to learn. Religion is an interesting subject and you can't fully understand history without learning about religion. Don't get me wrong. I just don't think 3rd graders need to learn about it, nor anyone for that matter. It's not essential knowledge, like health, science, and mathematics. I had "health" lessons too but they were extremely basic.
Heh. I went to an evangelical college (only local option for a bachelor's) that required a couple religious classes. One of them was allegedly a comparative religions class, but the textbook was a handbook on how to proselytize to people from various religions. It was the stupidest shit.
We were taught all about Islam and Judaism in my Catholic school, quite fairly too, I was surprised it went so well!
ViDious ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:47:12 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You mean that they aren't in America? Thats quite shocking to me, here in the Netherlands I learned about world religions in primary school. Its so important in the world of today.
Tsulaa ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:03:15 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was, but it was back in the 80s during 7th & 8th grades in public school.
SnekMark ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 18:04:33 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Whats the point of teaching kids tales of god(s)? Those who want can learn about it privately.
Hey everybody, check out this guy who lives in an atheistic bubble where no religious people ever cross his path in life and is never forced to have to consider any beliefs but his own.
It's not about teaching tales of god it's about learning about different cultures.
Tsulaa ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:59:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
(copied from my reply to MrFitzhugh) I was taught ...Comparative Religion during 7th & 8th grades in public school...[as] part of Social Studies; however, it was limited to the "Big Five" (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, & Buddhism). I wasn't being indoctrinated to subscribe to any of them. I had long questioned the one into which I had been born, anyways. It didn't make me an atheist (that came later), but I do recall realizing religion was all just so arbitrary & ridiculous & none of them were worth killing for. How is that a bad thing for kids to learn?
[deleted] ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 16:55:28 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sacred is often defined as that which is not profane (ordinary, everyday). The sacred contains the qualities of being: immutable, all encompassing, permanent, and usually accessible through ritual.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:36:09 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Etymology fun fact: Profane derives from a latin term for "not allowed in the temple" or literally "in front of the temple." pro + fanus "temple". Source
Glad you're liking it! If you're curious for some further reading check out Mircea Eliade "The Sacred and the Profane" and Rudolf Von Otto's writings on the concept of the numen. Really puts the larger religious experience of humans in perspective.
And if you really want to work hard, some Voegelin.
toxictoy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:50:02 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I read the Sacred and the Profane in college many years ago. Hand it out to friends and family for discussion. Honestly one of the best works ever to understand the frameworks of religion whether you are secular or religious.
Cognitive dissonance...inability to see ones self as anything but devout and holy and perfect means there is no way THEY would actually do something like that...therefore it has to be the devil.
Reality is the devil is a cool ass motherfucker who rides a motorcycle and parties around the world (source:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHlwGJwCHwY) and the real evil is them.
Rizzpooch ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:40:49 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The devil made me not acknowledge the devil making me do evil...
It's especially amusing/infuriating when a person like that is part of a religion that has confession, or an appropriate analogue.
Cause, you know, that's totally not a form of apologizing. The only difference totally isn't just that it's specifically for your deity(s) instead of people, right? Or does that mean it's an exception?
xltchiva ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:23:01 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But what about the Rasta Devil?
Caprious ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:24:10 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But the Devil is so much more fun to hang out with.
God wants you to sit at home or be in Church and do everything in your power to not offend him.
swr3212 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:05:09 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not just that, but with that rationale, doing good is God possessing you. Why do you even exist then if all your actions are decided by omniscient beings.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:37:47 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think thats what this was intended to mean, but is easily taken out of context.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:38:32 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Actually it's God's fault, considering he designed the universe with the molestation included. He essentially green-lit everything that has ever happened, considering he created the universe and human beings and human nature and knew their every act and decided to leave that configuration as-is. This molestation therefore was a design decision God made.
Well, actually that's what Aristotle proposed - that no man is evil because all evil acts are simply confusion.
Skipachu ยท 35 points ยท Posted at 14:54:08 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you know you are possessed by a demon (or even the Devil himself) who is using your body to do evil deeds then you should be seeking an exorcism. Just letting the bad things happen when you're the only one who can prevent them is as bad as doing them yourself.
tang81 ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 15:07:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But that is the point of the excuse. That they didn't have control of their body at the time so they can't be held responsible. They don't need the exorcism now. The devil (conveniently) was only there for the bad part.
aka-dit ยท 54 points ยท Posted at 15:23:03 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The devil has hooves and horns, just like a goat. Specifically a scapegoat.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:20:44 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's a Christian thing, based on earlier beliefs from Babylonians and others. Books of Isaiah and Enoch introduce him as an angel and people kinda blur/combine satan, lucifer, and the devil.
Yes and no. In the Bible, yeah. According to some people that claim to follow it, nope. Mostly because they never read it and just equated evil with couldn't ever have been good.
AFAIK this is christian tradition and not explicit in the bible. That the serpent in Genesis, the fallen angel of revelation and the accuser in the book of job are to be read as the same being is not a given, it's Christian exegesis from a later date.
EDIT: but your general point still stands in Christianity as a religion, it's just not explicit "in the bible". No wonder, seeing as it's a patchwork of texts from probably hundreds of authors and editors of different time periods.
Well the devil is the "embodiment" of evil. So what these people are really saying is it's the evil inside them that made them do it, they think they're absolving themselves from the blame, but all they're telling you is that in the scope of their religion and what they believe they are the evil one, and don't even realize it.
But Satan isn't even the embodiment of evil. Satan comes from Ha Satan AKA the accuser(he accuses God). What happened to the wickedness of man? Jesus wouldn't have had to die if mankind wasn't responsible for their sins. The Bible goes into lengths about how bad humans are. There is so much wrong with this dude's thought process.
EDIT: A lot of people brought up that Ha Satan accused man to God, which is correct. Also that there are differences between Lucifer and Satan(and Beelzebub and Devil). Lucifer was a part of Canaanite mythology, and Lucifer means "the morning star." It seems like KJV just used Lucifer synonymously with devil and satan which popularized it. According to mainstream Christianity, the Devil is a fallen angel who is a tempter and a deceiver. According to the wikipedia article, Calvin is behind this mainstream idea while Luther said that the devil is a personal sin(though I couldn't find any supporting evidence). I still don't like how people try to get off easy by placing the blame on Satan.
Hey man I'm just trying to hate on some people I don't agree with, what are you doing bringing all this logic in here and humanizing them? Just kidding obviously, but I'm no expert on Christianity by any means, the only understanding I really have of it is what I was taught growing up in a religious family. So even then the little understanding I have is filtered through the perspective of whoever taught it to me when I was young so you'll have to forgive me if I over reached.
Oh I'm not mad at you. You're right when you say this is how it's taught, like the devil is coming into our lives and ruining us instead of taking full responsibility for our own actions. It just really sucks that people hold onto that idea.
z500 ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 16:05:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought the whole point of Satan was that he tempts you to sin to try and take you to hell with him, but if you sin it's still on you.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:46:08 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you sin it's on God considering he designed your past, present, and future.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:10:55 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Except we have free will. He didn't design our past, present, and future, he's just aware of what will happen. He doesn't exist in one single time, but all times at once. The thing is, for him to know the future, he has to let it happen. If he stopped every tragedy, the future events would never take place, effectively stripping us of free will. He doesn't influence or affect our timeline. It all started in the Garden of Eden with the apple. He gave man the choice. Eternity of ignorant bliss or a life of hardships with the benefit of knowledge and understanding.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:27:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Free will is impossible under such a god. If he didn't design our past, present, and future, then he is not god. Not sure where you're getting at there.
The thing is, for him to know the future, he has to let it happen.
No, he knows the end result of every design decision whether it occurs or not. He's omniscient.
If he stopped every tragedy, the future events would never take place, effectively stripping us of free will.
You don't have free will. He already set everything in motion knowing what would happen. Every decision you make is a design decision God decided to include in his configuration of the universe. To say otherwise is to deny that god is all-powerful, all-knowing, and that he created the universe.
It all started in the Garden of Eden with the apple. He gave man the choice.*
No, it started when God created the universe. He did so knowing everything that would happen. He designed Eve, and the apple, and the serpent, and everything else, knowing the result. He therefore engineered the entire situation including Eve's decision.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:00:19 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You aren't even addressing my points. You're just misinterpreting them or getting them wrong completely. You said if he didn't design our futures for us he isn't God. What do you base that claim on? You're making a lot of statements and assumptions based on nothing. It seems like you're disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. Even at the last point, you tried pointing to the start of creation when we were discussing man's free will, which did start at the apple. You're either purposefully missing the point to avoid conceding the argument or you're just unaware of what you're saying.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:31:11 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You said if he didn't design our futures for us he isn't God.
Yep. He designed everything in the universe. Stop narrating what you think I'm doing and make a real point.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:15:30 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:20:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes he was aware. But intervening would change the outcome. You question God's motives yet have little to no knowledge of the Bible. His intentions are to give us free will and decide our own lives. He hopes that we are faithful to him. If he were to control every action, free will wouldn't exist, and life would be pointless. You're trying way too hard to understand a being who transcends all aspects of existence. Think about the complexity of a being like that. No matter how hard you try, there is no chance of anyone with a limited human mind understanding him.
spamyak ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 23:24:03 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You're misunderstanding my point. It is impossible for an all-knowing being to create the universe without intervening in its outcome, as the very act of creating the universe defines its outcome. To say that God did nothing to change the outcome of the universe is to say that God had no hand in designing the universe. Even if God chose a random selection of parameters for the universe, he created its current outcome with his decision to use the random output while being fully aware of the end results. Intentions are irrelevant. And saying "God is incomprehensible" is a non-argument: ridiculous handwaving that prevents a logical argument about God from occurring about the subject of God simply because you assert that logic does not apply.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:09:50 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:21:57 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's logically sound though, is it not? I understand that I'm not the first to say it but there's really no good argument against it.
The Duggar guy? His parents are in the Quiverfull Movement (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiverfull) and I don't believe he's strayed from it, last I knew. Some of his siblings have.
Quiverfull is a movement among some conservative Christian couples, chiefly in the United States, but there are some adherents in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and elsewhere. The movement sees children as a blessing from God and it encourages procreation, abstaining from all forms of birth control (including natural family planning) and sterilization. Adherents are known as quiver full, full quiver, quiverfull-minded, or simply QF Christians. Some have referred to the Quiverfull position as Providentialism, while other sources have simply referred to it as a manifestation of natalism.
As a Christian, I would like to add that groups like the Quiverfull movement are not representative of all or even most of us. Honestly, it makes me uncomfortable watching the Duggars when they use Christian ideas to justify antiqued and sexist concepts such as forbidding women from wearing pants or holding a job.
MattcVI ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:35:47 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
As an ex-Christian, I would like to say that while groups like that don't represent Christians in most of their beliefs, the "devil made me do it" mentality and beliefs about traditional men and women's roles aren't at all unique to that sect and are not exactly uncommon
I grew up Lutheran. My husband grew up nondenominational weirdo evangelical. We decided to get married in a Lutheran church back in Minnesota, which required premarital counseling with a pastor, but since we live in California, we had to make arrangements to do it at a local Lutheran church. This is an extremely conservative area, but I went in expecting typical Lutheranism. Ha. The pastor kinda lost me when he got to the part about wives having to submit to their husbands. He's all, "all I really mean by that, is like, maybe if you have a situation where the two of you disagree and can't come to a decision, you allow him to be the man, and you do what he wants." Oh fuck no.
Badargel ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:11:05 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs sad that you have to point out the difference between the two given that there are so many โCrazy Christianโ stories nowadays.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:47:32 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Christianity itself is antiquated and sexist. I'm sure I don't have to tell you that your modernized version of Christianity isn't any more or less legitimate than fundamentalism. Of course it's good that you concentrate on the good and not the bad, but that doesn't make you right it just makes you a better person than them.
servohahn ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:30:39 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So even then the little understanding I have is filtered through the perspective of whoever taught it to me when I was young
So you have about the same grasp of it as the average Christian. Don't worry.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:49:31 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's filtered through someone's perspective regardless. Remember the translation of the entire thing was put in the hands of a handful of people at one point, not to mention the stories themselves are based on legends passed down through word-of-mouth for generations. You can't pass one sentence through a crowded room without mangling it; you really think storytellers are giving you the genuine account?
Ha satan doesn't accuse god, he accuses humans to god.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:45:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Uh, Jesus didn't have to die at all. God is omnipotent. He could just snap his fingers and absolve mankind of all wrongdoing, which is his fault in the first place considering he designed the past, present, and future of every speck of matter in the universe and is responsible for everything that transpires in his universe. Jesus' entire existence is nothing but theatrics.
alibob63 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:33:30 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Or adversary.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:45:56 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A great question was once posed, "How do you know that the Devil is the evil one and God the good one?". A very simple, but thought provoking question.
Satan does not accuse God. Satan accuses man, and for much of Judaism was essentially the "prosecutor" of God's kingdom. Look at the story of Job. God and Satan are obviously on speaking terms, and he is not a pitchfork and red devil tail kind of being in that story. He is like a prosecutor going to the judge wanting to put an innocent man on trial to see if he can trip him up.
Coopersma ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:22:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Serious question about the Bible- Some take the Bible as the literal word of God, but the original texts were translated by the Catholic Church into Latin. The Church made a few changes to suit their purpose, left out some of the books they didnโt like, then presented it as Gospel. Along comes King James. He translates the Bible into English, changes a few things to suit himself and presented it as Gospel.
How can anything in the Bible be taken as the word of God after so many imperfect humans got a hold of it?
Bible translations are the result of lots of research around the earliest manuscripts that can be found. KJV was very impressive for its time, but it was made 400 years ago. Since then the English language has changed and early texts have been found. From what I understand, ESV and NIV are both really good modern translations. Study Bibles include context to certain words, phrases, or events. Translations also vary between thought by thought and word for word, so comparing and contrasting Bibles will give you the best idea for what the text meant. Main ideas or thoughts are pretty consistent across good translations. It all comes down to study.
A Christian (I'm not) would probably answer any changes have been overseen or divinely inspired by the Holy Ghost. God wouldn't allow the word to be corrupted, just adjusted, clarified, etc. push the issue further and you'll probably end up with a "mysterious ways"-reply, I'm guessing.
What? No. The Devil and Satan are the same person. There is some debate over whether Lucifer was originally a different entity, but he has been considered the same for thousands of years.
The Fall also happened before the creation of the world. What is this bullshit you're saying?
The chronology of Revelations is not linear. There are a lot of events that are described as happening at the same time that had already happened or had not happened yet. It's confusing, but the it makes more sense when you consider that Revelations is not to be read the same as the other books. It is not a retelling, it's a vision that is supposed to convey a variety of different things.
This confusion allows a lot of interpretation. Some people see the War in Heaven as one of the events of the end of the world. Some see it as a retelling of the original fall. Again, the chronology is not clear, as right before it it tells about the Birth of Christ.
Regardless, there are other references to Satan being a fallen angel, both in the OT and the NT. So no matter when the War in Heaven is supposed to happen, Satan has already fallen.
The only mention of Lucifer in the Bible is Isaiah 14:12. The context of Isaiah 14 makes it clear it's talking about a specific King, not an Angel.
Revelations 12 (you know, the part of the Bible talking about the future) is where The Devil leads a war in heaven and is later cast out.
Not in the past.
Thesaurii ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:49:20 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The serpent in the garden isn't the devil either, he was just some dick snake. Lucifer isn't the lord of hell or a fallen angel, he is a dead king, who sufferns in hell ust like that douche snake from above. Satan chills with God up in heaven, he is a good bro.
The Devil being an oppositional force that is the embodiment of evil isn't even really reinforced by the bible itself, but christian mythos says that the snake is in fact the devil, and is a being of evil that wars with god.
Even though the concept of a being who can in any way battle or even bother god is ridiculous, considering he is all-knowing and all-powerful.
All of the Christian myths of The Devil, Lord of Hell, father of lies, old scratch, Lucifer, all that bullshit comes from revelations, describing the fallen angels - which tells of a future event (well really, its poetry, but if you believe in Revelations as a true prophecy thats what it is), not a past one - and a bunch of christian writings like Dante's Inferno.
Fun fact, Islam identifies a devil too. The devil is everyone who opposes Allah, because the only people who could posisble be anti-god are beings made of evil.
No. I've seen this as well, and he literally thinks that every good thought in his head is put there by his god and that every bad thought is put there by the devil. He didn't take any personal responsibility for his thoughts and actions, he just saw himself as a passenger.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:50:57 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He's right in a way, at least the first part. Under an all-knowing all-powerful sole designer of the universe, every thought in your head was technically placed there by God be it good or bad.
Lordidude ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:12:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wow what a perfectly logical comment. I hope I'll remember to gild you when I'm sober again.
Lordidude ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:12:37 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
!remindme 69 hours
max225 ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 15:39:10 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did he try drinking some pepto? Sometimes I feel like an evil spirit is festering in my innards and slowly taking control of my faculties but its usually just indigestion.
dagerdev ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 15:04:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Slap them really hard. When they get mad, just say "It was the devil. It's not my fault"
c3h8pro ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 15:35:12 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Castrate him then say "beat ya Devil!"
[deleted] ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 16:12:23 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:54:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's a very obvious problem with that in that God is the sole designer of the universe, and he knows all and can do all, meaning the past, present, and future of every speck of matter in the universe is a design decision made by God. In order for you to be responsible for your misdeeds, God must either not have known you were going to do them when he created you and your nature (which would mean he isn't omniscient), not be able to stop you (which would mean he isn't all-powerful,) or not have been the one to design you (which would mean he isn't the only god.)
Neveya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:24:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But what about free will? Maybe there is a degree of free will involved in God's plan. Lets imagine you make the universe and see how things will unfold but you want some beings to have some degree of choice. There could be multiple, almost infinite, threads of timelines based on choices that the universe could go down that would all eventually lead back down to the same plan or maybe you know what choice someone is going to make and how much you have to poke them to make the right choice. It would still be arguable how much choice you have but I don't think it is something we can fully understand.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:33:58 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Free will can't exist under such a god for the reasons I've delineated. It would require a degree of imperfection the Judeo-Christian god purportedly does not have.
Whenever I start thinking about this I remember what the robot elders told bender when he was lamenting about not having free will. "Our decisions do matter. The fact that they're predetermined makes them no less important."
Silence!!!
Neveya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:04:49 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sorry I didn't have time to respond properly I was talking to a friend, I thought you might mention this. This is arguable I think and ultimately I don't think either of us can say with certainty that free will can or cannot exist under such circumstances. If you have created a universe where choice can effect circumstance and you can see how everything will pan out then yes it seems free will would not exist. But if you were to allow a being choice to say turn left or right, and you knew what choice they were going to make and did nothing to intervene, couldn't that be classed as free will? For there to be an overall plan to the universe I can see how it could be arguable if there is free will, but why can't that plan incorporate every possible choice that could be theoretically made?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:29:38 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
God is also the designer though. He isn't an independent observer. So it's his design that you turn left or right.
Neveya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:59:45 on October 10, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why does that make the choice any different?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:23:30 on October 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because the choices you make are part of a configuration God gave the green light when he designed the universe. They are design decisions made by God. He designed your past, present, and future, and that of everything in existence. So you have no choice because you had no creative input in the design of your life. You are a toy in God's sandbox.
Neveya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:21:29 on October 20, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think that makes a difference to the impact of a choice though, but I understand that you don't like this possible world view. Whether a choice is made by God or not, if you choose to kill someone the responsibility is still on you. No creative input in the choices you get to make ofcourse but in this model there is still input in the choices that are presented to you.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:17:41 on October 21, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Uh no, the responsibility is not on you. God is responsible for everything that transpires within his sandbox. He created you, your nature, your victim, your victim's nature, he created the motive, opportunity, murder weapon, the concept of murder, as well as every series of events that led to the murder. He crafted the murder in every way, shape, and form. God is responsible.
There is zero creative input by anyone but God because God designed the creator knowing the end result of every design decision, meaning your choices are actually being made by God. You are just a character in God's novel, essentially. There's no real way to escape this fact as far as the Abrahamic god is concerned because he is an omnipotent, omniscient designer. It has nothing to do with whether I like it or not.
Neveya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:57:23 on October 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think not liking it has something to do with it as it presents a gap in entertaining a hypothetical idea; that an omnipotent God and accountability for choices/decisions made by humans can exist. But I know this is not something either of us can prove I am just saying it is possible.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:44:01 on October 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, it's definitely something that can be proven, since it's a logical truth. Under such a God, determinism isn't possible. In order for a human to actually be the author of their own destiny, they would have to do something God didn't already design them to do, which would mean that God either isn't all-knowing or isn't all-powerful. Whether or not I like the idea is irrelevant because I've provided sound reasoning regardless.
What's your actual response to the line of reasoning used?
Neveya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:28:06 on October 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That an omnipotent God can let his creations have varying degrees of influence over the world. You are right the design comes into play for the potential to do many things but it is just potential until realized.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:31:44 on October 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
God has also designed which potential shall be realized. There's no uncertainty, since he's God. He knows the exact outcome because he created it.
Neveya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:19:38 on October 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How do we know that God designed which potential shall be realized? Maybe to an extent God would let the potential grow and sometimes let it reach its completion even in cases like potential to murder, but can we really claim morale high ground to place blame on God for not exterminating his creation before that happens? We can only have opinions on things like this, we don't know what being an omnipotent God is like and how He would choose to carry out his creation and the building of worlds and mechanics in said creations. So I would not place blame on God if I did something that I know is not morally right.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:47:30 on October 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How do we know that God designed which potential shall be realized? Maybe to an extent God would let the potential grow and sometimes let it reach its completion even in cases like potential to murder, but can we really claim morale high ground to place blame on God for not exterminating his creation before that happens?
To say that God does not know which potential shall be realized is to say that God is ignorant of the result of his design decisions, which would mean he's not omniscient. Since he's supposedly all-knowing, he must know which potential shall be realized.
We can only have opinions on things like this, we don't know what being an omnipotent God is like and how He would choose to carry out his creation and the building of worlds and mechanics in said creations. So I would not place blame on God if I did something that I know is not morally right.
Well of course you wouldn't, because the reality is humans don't really believe in God. They don't act as though they truly believe. The ones that do are labeled extremists. I mean, if you really believed the majority of people on the planet are going to suffer in what's described in the Bible as a furnace of fire for their eternal existence, I wouldn't imagine you'd be okay with that. That's quite a troubling thing to actually believe. People really just want to believe in immortal souls/reincarnation, anything to stave off death. Fear of death is primal; it's one of the strongest instincts any creature has, if not the strongest. But this is a digression...
What you're saying is essentially "God works in mysterious ways." That's a non-argument. You're basically saying "you're wrong and I can't explain why you're wrong even though what you've said is factually correct because nobody can possibly understand why you're wrong but trust me you're wrong." Not to put words in your mouth, but that's what that argument boils down to in this type of discussion.
However, I don't wish to be combative. If this were a debate, that would not be a valid argument. But I'd rather have a discussion. Yes, such an existence would probably be unfathomable for humans, but you don't have to be God in order to discuss God or the functional reality of such an existence.
God could have created a world without any one thing, and you would have the same amount of free will as you do in the world he decided to create, which is none since it's unattainable under such a god. The true end of this line of reasoning isn't that God is impossible to understand, it's that he's all too easy to understand because he's a fictional character cooked up in the hearts and minds of primitive men, no more or less legitimate than any other fantastical creature men have come up with throughout history. He has no more legitimacy than the litany of other deities or even things like werewolves and vampires. Hell, different cultures all over the world crafted vampire myths just like they crafted the bow and arrow independently. Believing in any one of them, actually, truly believing, is absurd. Not to mention historically, they completely destroyed my people's mother culture and replaced it with Christianity, as they did with so many others, so I already have a bone to pick with them because of their proselytism, but it's even worse because of the sheer absurdity of proclaiming belief in a book that can be easily picked apart by anyone who's read a fictional book before.
Don't blame God if you do something wrong, unless you truly believe he designed in the universe in which case he's to blame for everything be it right or wrong.
Neveya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:59:35 on October 25, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My point was that this is a discussion of opinion, mine too. You were saying things about God stating it as fact and I can understand to a certain extent your "bone to pick" which is why I mentioned about you having disdain for this topic. Maybe if that was cleared you could think about a monotheistic God as a hypothetical entity without tieing it to religious corruption and personal grievances, but I know it is easier said than done. Sorry if it takes a while for me to reply now if we continue the discussion some personal things of my own going on right now too.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:51:59 on October 25, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Okay but I still used a line of reasoning. The things I've been saying are matters of logical fact. Whether you agree with the reasoning or not, it isn't a matter of opinion.
I know, right? It gasts my flabbers that the most mainstream Christian groups in America are literally saying "well, the commandments don't matter that much" because admitting that their idols are pretty solidly antichristian would require them to question why they attach so strongly to hate-based interpretations of obscure passages.
Like, Jesus, how in the fuck did Jesus's teachings ever get accepted as something to be lauded by capitalists or fascists? It's even more communist than Soviet Russia, to the point that a lot of the instructions, if followed, would literally kill off the human race.
(Because, you know, people were supposed to want Revelation and Paradise to come about, rather than to stick to the status quo.)
I always ask those people why we even bother having a judicial system.
I mean, if God has an infallible plan for everything then he wanted, let's say, for that guy to kidnap, rape, and murder that 3 year old girl. Right?
Wouldn't punishing that guy for doing what an all-knowing, all-powerful being had planned go contrary to what God wanted? Shouldn't that man be celebrated for carrying out God's will.
If God has a plan, every war, rape, murder, and every other bad thing that happens on this planet happens specifically because God willed it to happen.
Nobody can be blamed for their actions.
It's all part of God's plan.
"Bu...but free will and the Devil!!"
Oh, so then we are saying that this omnipresent and omnipotent beings plans can be easily thwarted by a few evolved monkeys floating through space on a spinning rock?
Well, that doesn't sound like a very powerful being to me.
Are you also saying that a being that is supposed to be all powerful can't just wipe from utter existence the one evil being that keeps fucking up his plan by making those same evolved monkeys stray from his plan?
Look, either God is all powerful or he isn't.
If he has a plan, and everything happens according to that plan, then he is a fucking sadist at best.
If he has a plan that we can easily usurp because we feel like it, then he isn't all powerful and not really much of a God.
I'm not religious and have no stake in this game, but I'm confused by your logic. Couldn't an omnipotent god choose to allow humans to do what they want? Couldn't he be all powerful and just choose not to act? I get that means he wouldn't be benevolent, but I didn't see that in your post. No hate, just genuinely curious.
Yes, but then there's the question of whether allowing evil to occur is in itself evil. If I am watching a woman get raped and have a gun in my hand, which could stop said rape, am I not also culpable for failing to stop it? Can I truly be a good person when I choose to allow evil that is within my power to prevent?
It's an old dilemma
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?โ
I've heard this argument before and I still can see the flaw. It is necessary for the existence of free will and to have the capacity to do good for their to exist wrongs and tribulations in the Universe. It is more like letting your kids fuck up except scaled to the level of well a god. Creating something and then letting it occur and live its life is an entirely different thing. I mean does someone have the right to interfere with the natural extinction of a species for example or to judge their interactions? There is actually a great deal of depth to these arguments that have been explored but I think the internet is particularly bad about ignoring due to its more horizontal tendencies.
That's a false equivalence argument. You're saying that being able to stop someone from stealing a cookie is morally analogous to stopping someone from murdering simply based on the fact that these two things are seen as "bad". Yet if you agree that there's should be greater punishment for murder than for stealing, then you've already conceded the two acts hold varying levels of moral deficiency.
Assuming God can stop evil, then why doesn't he? Honoring the free will doesn't excuse such. If I walked in on someone stabbing you to death, and you cried for help, but my response was simply "whoop, sorry... Gotta let them make their choice" would you not feel completely abandoned. Worse, would you not hold me partially responsible? Wouldn't your family question my morals upon hearing I sat by and did nothing to help when it was within my power to do so?
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I am using an analogy t explain the dimensionality of the problem. I have already stated the scale difference but saying because a scale difference exists doesn't make the analogy wrong or microcosms would be a useless literary tool. My example was letting someone make their own choice, and allowing them to be in a situation where bad things can happen.
On the second point there isn't any whoops sorry or ridiculous case. I would say it is more of a leaving the room scenario and you aren't a god, you exist on the same time scale. The United States military could resolve probably countless conflict at the cost of sovereignty. One of the costs of having a good and evil or meaningful decisions is that bad things happen. As tends to be in theology victims aren't abandoned on a different plane or the same plane in systems of karma. Regardless when you interfere you remove free will of all parties. At what point is there a natural stopping point as each act of evil is comparatively the worst. Once you've taken away the bad the good begins to lose value. Decisions stop being meaningful and in many ways it becomes the worse evil. Shielding isn't always the appropriate thing to do and when dealing with the existence of a species, prolonging an individual isn't always the greatest long term value.
People insist that that means he should forcibly prevent bad things from occurring, yet those same people often insist that life in heaven would be bad, since you'd barely count as a person if you had a mind that was forcibly limited from doing or thinking anything bad. People can't have it both ways.
If he can stop anyone from doing anything, and often does, and is all-knowing, all-seeing, and all-powerful, then a lack of intervention is a deliberate choice on his part. If he can and will intervene anytime he doesn't like a particular outcome, then all of the choices were ultimately his. You never had free will at all if he just negates any decisions he doesn't like and only allows those he approves of.
Remember, the Christian God has unconditional love for you, except under certain conditions.
Way I figure it, if the Christian God exists, then either the general Christian belief of an unconditionally loving god is accurate and, by extension, said God doesn't give a fuck what you believe 'cause he loves you so hell doesn't even exist as that'd be dumb, said God just wants people to be awesome to each other but if they're not no biggie since God loves everyone and besides, humans are operating on imperfect knowledge....
Or said God has all those conditions and requirements and as such, isn't worth worship or veneration as said God's just a shitty spiteful whining fuck.
Clack082 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:18:57 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Bible explicitly says one of the conditions of God loving you is believing in Jesus and having faith. Only through Jesus can you get into Heaven.
The Bible doesn't have any provision for nice people who don't believe in Jesus being the lamb of God, getting into Heaven.
It's a popular feel good view, but it's not supported by the Bible.
There could also be option c, that God loves humans and forgives thembbut, just like the father who cut off his Nazi son, understands that some squandered all their chnces and would squander their future ones too...
Is love even truly unconditional? wouldn't any human who loves a serial rapist genocidal murderer as he is, for example, be called distorted themselves? wouldn't true love, in that case, require one to assist them in changing rather than enabling them? Wouldn't a just being, even one who loves such a man , not smite him down if said man refuses to even repent or change his ways?
Unconditional love is not unconditional enabling. And one must ask on whether the loving thing for one who also loves everyone else is to put such a being down.
Welcome to philosophy. Typing in a forum is horrible to convey complex ideas, it's much better talking in a class room. Just for the hell of it, I took some philosophy at a private college so I'll try to address some of your ideas the best I can from a Christian view of God. I'm agnostic btw, not some white knight religious nut defending religion.
/u/ancientvoices is correct, God gave us free will. You frame a person's choice as "God's Will", not giving anyone a chance to make a decision. You state that any action someone does good or bad is God's Will. We have 'free choice', we can decide if we want to do good or evil.
God wants us essentially, to take care of one another, get married, have children and praise him as the all powerful creator. We can choose to do that or not. If we obey him, we go to heaven, if not, hell.
About 'the evil being that keeps fucking up his plan'. I can't really go into the theology of evil but to make it brief, you can't have good without evil. If evil didn't exist, then everything just, 'is'. Can't have life with out death, black without white or good with out evil.
If your really interested in theology and philosophy, I'd highly recommend an introductory course at a community college.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 14:42:53 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Most people are religious because they are afraid of burning. Good luck making them accept they are sinners who will burn.
max225 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:42:28 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Change "burn" to "blaze." 420 blaze it in hell for all eternity if you be of inconstant faith or virtue, faggot. I mean that just sounds like a right wild shindig to me.
He's wrong. Biblically, God states he will not put you through more temptation than you can handle, it is rather the person's fault for not resisting the temptation. And while the devil is causing him to do it, the devil can only act through you if you allow him to by giving in to the temptation.
ObieUno ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:38:03 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Its the fault of martin luther. He came up with sola fide, and indirectly total depravity. The entire basis of these things is that people are incorruptibly evil, and trying to be good is impossible, so only by substituting jesus' goodness for yours via faith can you be considered good. You are still meant to try to be good, but its seen as an impossible task, so its easy to interpret that in a way where your individual failings aren't really particular to you, since what matters is having faith.
J0ak3s ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:31:44 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Former Christian here. I never liked that โDevil made me do itโ mindset. Thereโs a verse early in Job where God asks the Devil what heโs been up to lately. The Devil tells him that heโs been walking to and fro. This verse is one most Christians hold up like a victory: it shows that unlike their God, Satan is not omnipresent. He canโt be everywhere at once.
My issue is that... if youโre a Christian who subscribes to that sort of thought process, why would you be so arrogant as to presume that of everything else he could be doing, the Devil has nothing better to do than make you cheat on your wife?
and all the goods in your life are gifts from god for making rightful desisisions with your free will. And poor people are poor it's gods punishment for bad deeds.
Basically "I can't do wrong because I have god on my side"
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:12:11 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nothing bad I do is my fault because the devil was really doing it in my body.
Did you punch him in the face and then make the same claim???
No, I am a pretty peaceful person. I did keep our conversations short. He has two kids and he explained to me that he would raise them to hate homosexuals. I feel bad for his kids really. I could not imagine growing up in that house hold.
Let me help you out with this. That guy isn't actually religious in the way that you and I understand religion, rather he is what we like to call a sanctimonious asshole that uses religion as an excuse to be a total cunt-wobble and absolve himself from any personal responsibility, just like Jesus or Allah, or Vishnu or whatever religion he pretends to follow what's him to do.
Unfortunately this is also the same attitude that most fervently religious people that I have known have.
pfun4125 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:22:44 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Refusal to accept responsibility for ones actions. Very simple. Often exhibited by worthless pieces of shit.
Yeah. I'm a Catholic, and here is how I understand it: when you do bad things, the devil is tempting you. But you still have a choice to do the right thing. The devil doesn't make you do anything. If you hang out with a bad crowd, and they pressure you to go steal some stuff with them, then sure, they are partially responsible for what you did, but it's also your fault for giving in in the first place.
K340 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:53:01 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If he's so irredeemably vulnerable to the devil's possession then I guess for the good of society we just have take him out in the street and end his suffering.
The devil just provides temptation. Humans have to exercise their free will to deny it. Succomb, and it's your own damn (ha) fault.
304079 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:40:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The religious don't read their holy books. If they did, they would stop being religious.
JamesR624 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:20:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What's not to get? People using that KNOW their religion is horseshit but also know that most other people (most people in this country are religious) will fall for it. What matters isn't whether you're right or wrong, but if you can get away with it.
It's because if he passes the buck to the devil it means he didn't do it so he's still gets to go to heaven. If he's got to admit that humans have flaws and he did something wrong he thinks God will send him straight to Hell.
If any of my friends started thinking like that I would punch then in the face as hard as I can every day, and when questioned I would say it's the devils fault. Repeat until they take responsibility for their actions.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:14:24 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The secular (left) version of this is "the white man / colonialism / oppression made me do it."
I mean, he's still a creep and a douchebag. But OP is fake news.
Atomhed ยท 55 points ยท Posted at 16:07:05 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks for posting the context, context is important...I don't think many people noticed that the "headline" wasn't a quote...
As a non-denominational Christian (as opposed to a delusional "Christian"), it's more about accepting your shame and embracing regret, that is what leads to repentance. Of course, these men are not Christians...they just claim to be.
I really don't care to hear people say "I'm sorry"...I'd rather hear "I regret my shameful actions and the pain they have caused", that at least acknowledges guilt.
Too many people say sorry just to move on...I find the phrase "I'm sorry" to be insincere. Reminds me of the South Park Coon Trilogy with C'thulu...the BP exec doing glamour shots saying "I'm sorry...." with a different emphasis each time...then he's lying there naked on a, if I recall correctly, a polar bear fur in front a a fire with a glass of wine.
Sorry's are worthless. Regret and shame needs to be embraced to be a better person tomorrow.
This again comes from that questionable source, but they mentioned he was gearing up to return to his show. That goes with what you said -- if you're truly repentant and ashamed of your actions, you should remove yourself from this kind of public display. Now he didn't return to the show, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was more the network's decision than his own. Bottom line is he shouldn't have even tried to.
Atomhed ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:54:31 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Absolutely, if he is a real Christian he would sequester himself to a bare bones dwelling, and spend quite a bit of time actually thinking about this. After all, that is all that "talking to God" is...thinking to yourself.
He'd feel an urgent need to go back to the basics and get his shit straight. That's what happened in my soul when I started my road to recovery. After 10 years of addiction, I hit the reset button on my life and started over. That's repentance. At this point, he likely can't repent. It's been too long, and he's gone too far down his road to even go back to where he started.
My road was fairly straight...it was easy to see where I went wrong and what I had to change. This man's road is a scribble.
It would serve him, and the GOP in general to stop talking about religion as if it makes them better than everyone else. Or just stop talking about it in general. According to them, pride is a sin...taking pride in a belief one claims to follow is the worst kind of pride. I mean, like, how hard was it to actually decide to join a religion? It's like Trump's pride...he's so proud of things that were completely effortless for him and honestly believes those things make him better.
Worst of all, according to Revelations, The Prosperity Gospel very well could be the work of Satan. These people either don't actually read their Bibles, or don't actually care. Either option makes them charlatans. Fuck them all.
Also a good option: Use the rest of your life to help others. In his case he could be talking to other men about the devastating effects his sin had and encouraging men facing similar struggles.
And you know what? It could happen yet. He's been largely invisible for the last two years. We can only hope he's been paying some much-overdue attention to his wife and kids. Maybe in another year he starts speaking to mens groups about his experiences and encouraging them to man up, come clean, accept responsibility, and make amends for whatever they're battling.
I mean, we haven't seen anything to suggest he will... but we can hope.
Atomhed ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:07:50 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Without hope, the current state of the world would be unlivable. We must keep that alive, at least.
Heh. I found the site OP article came from. Here's another article from it:
Trump Just Used Devastating Hurricane Damage To Give Himself A Tax Cut
Which is based on this tweet:
With Irma and Harvey destruction, Tax Cuts and Tax Reform is needed more than ever before. Go Congress go!โ
The logic being that rich people will benefit from GOP tax cuts, and he's rich, so he'll benefit. Again, while that logic may be fine, the wording suggests something much more brazen and offensive happened.
I also enjoyed these other headlines:
Petulant Child Trump Throws Another GIGANTIC Twitter Tantrum
Dumbass Conservative Magazine Reposts Poll After Humiliating Results
Today Ends In โY,โ Which Means Another Guy At Fox News Turned Out To Be A Rapist
So, no bias there :)
thipp ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:38:14 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ah, another shining example of quality journalism. Amazing.
Gafgb12 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:17:43 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That wouldn't stir up the correct sentiment, though.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:18:57 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The whole family blamed the daughters for the abuse. Any semblance of personal responsibility they exhibit is to manipulate their white trash fanbase.
Yea I'm a Christian and I really have no idea what he's talking about. The whole point of our religion is that man is inherently flawed, and the key to forgiveness is to apologize and repent. Personal accountability is a major part of it
Yea, I would imagine that even some Calvinists (do they even exist anymore) would find his excuse flimsy
mgwil24 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:43:02 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lol yes there's actually a massive movement of Reformed theology (includes Calvinism) sweeping western Christianity. And yes they all assert the doctrine of personal responsibility for sin. My personal opinion is that this is a contradiction with other things they say, but they don't see it this way.
None of that makes any sense either though. Why would you have to ask for god to forgive you for being what he made you?
You also don't need religion to understand that people can be inherently problematic, or to figured out how to deal with those problems.
Playing the blame game just means you haven't figure out your own problems yet.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:32:31 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well because he didn't make us sinful, we became that way on our own. If you have a child who does something bad they apologize, right? Did you make the child mess up because you're his parent or does he have free will to make his own actions?
Well because he didn't make us sinful, we became that way on our own.
So if things can happen without gods knowledge or approval, than how do you know god created anything? If something exists that can't be predicted (understood) or controlled by god, then those things either have control over god, or god doesn't really care about them.
Your reasoning exists solely to solve the problem with the existence of evil, which there is zero evidence of. You can literally justify any belief using that kind of reasoning, no matter how terrible or ridiculous it is. I can even argue that religion was designed to test if we're willing to believe in nonsense just so we can avoid punishment or gain reward.
Or maybe life is just too difficult and it's easier to follow directions.
CRGRO ยท 143 points ยท Posted at 13:40:36 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"Father, I forgive you for unleashing the insatiable sexual deviant Judas amongst us humans. Even if he can force me to molest, to your grace and love, I will attest."
No, but the way it does work in his religion is that he gets to proclaim that he repented and that Jesus forgave him, and then all his victims are obligated to forgive him or else they're guilty of being bitter and failing to believe in Jesus.
mgwil24 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:40:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree that Christianity in general is all about forgiveness- otherwise what's the point? But that doesn't absolve him from legal consequences of his actions, even if he has been forgiven in a spiritual sense. The way I've seen this handled is the perpetrator is asked to leave and go somewhere else even after full repentance. If they are truly heartbroken over what they've done they are fine with this and respectful of the pain they've caused.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 14:55:09 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's all made up anyway. Why not make up your own rules?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:55:25 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:59:41 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I bet black people were pretty excited when the Mormon church decided to ignore the whole black people are bad/inferior aspect of their religion.
I've always wondered this about Mormonism; if your religion is explicitly racist, wouldn't any reasonable person conclude that it is an immoral belief system? Instead they just ignore the "bad parts" and carry on.
It's like with the rest of christianity and slavery; if your religion explicitly supports slavery, wouldn't any reasonable person conclude that it is an immoral belief system? Instead they just ignore the "bad parts" and carry on.
Atomhed ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:38:15 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well, that's pretty much how our laws, economy, and prison system work as well...
These men aren't Christians. They claim to be for show. We all already know they are hypocrites not acting in good faith. They are duplicitous.
But God being made up is an opinion. Yes, the "proof" we have of Jesus is obscure, but the proof that God does not exist is even more lacking.
It's called faith because there isn't supposed to be proof. It's belief. You may not believe, or have faith, and that is fine. It is based on your life's experiences, I assume. I do have faith, based on my life's experiences, and there simply isn't anything to prove.
Now, if some people got together to find some evidence of another life, or another realm, or whatever...they may not find anything, but it wouldn't be proof of anything.
In my opinion, and in faith, God and Science are one and the same. God is Math. God is biology.
Satan would be Economics, but I think everyone would agree with that. (Intermission joke, guys, don't take it too seriously.)
I'm getting way off track here, but I'm just attempting to get ahead of the various arguments that will inevitably come following this comment...
I do not believe God is a man-like being, or even a being as we are able to understand. To me God is a force, like I said, science itself.
When I read Genesis, I am reading the description of events of the big bang theory. The modern translations say these things happened in 7 days, but as a non-denominational Christian I don't use the bible as an encyclopedia...the thing was written so long ago, yet in their limited understanding of science, the book of Genesis and the big bang theory are very similar. That isn't proof of anything either, but it is something to think about, in my opinion.
Tl;Dr: I apologize for the essay, I am not attempting to argue or tell you that you wrong, just typing out the thoughts your comment sparked. And isn't that what we're really here for? To give our opinions about crap? I mean, how many Redditors believe they are right about everything? Most of them, from what I can tell...and they usually won't even do the courtesy of explaining their line of logic. So, again, I am not trying to argue with you, just attempting to add my 2 cents with a side of context.
Atomhed ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:05:25 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, like I said, the bible claims this all happened in 7 days.
Did you read my comment?
We are dealing with an anthology based upon word of mouth. I did not say that they are identical, just pointing out both beliefs have parallels. At the end of the day, we do not know what happens next. It is unknown. Their is simply no hard proof for any of it.
Can you prove to me that math was not designed? There is an awful lot of structure in the universe to be completely random. Can you prove there was not a nudge? Can you prove this nudge was not God? I can't. So I'm left with my faith and beliefs. I have yet to witness any scientific discovery that is at odds with my spirituality. I am a non-denominational Christian. I was not raised that way. I was not influenced or trying to fit in.
We are dealing with an anthology based upon word of mouth. I did not say that they are identical, just pointing out both beliefs have parallels.
I agree there are some parallels, though a lot of things don't work. If you believe that the first several chapters of Genesis are allegorical/poetic or if you believe the bible contains errors then your interpretation can work I suppose.
I was only trying to point out that reading Genesis where the days represent vast ages but the order of events remains is not a coherent view. It appears you hold a different view. I should have read your comment more carefully. I saw the paragraph about Genesis and the big bang and wanted to point the differences out.
Can you prove to me that math was not designed...
I won't argue any of these points because I do believe that the universe was designed by the God revealed in the bible.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:25:06 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
These men aren't Christians. They claim to be for show. We all already know they are hypocrites not acting in good faith. They are duplicitous.
How is this not a "no true Scotsman" fallacy, though? They are Christians if they say they are. As much as you are if you do not give all your wealth to the poor and live as a beggar...the book is pretty clear.
But God being made up is an opinion. Yes, the "proof" we have of Jesus is obscure, but the proof that God does not exist is even more lacking.
You're wrong about this on a basic philosophical level. The two stances are not equal; "gods do not exist" is the default condition until it is proven that some god exists.
That which is asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.
Atomhed ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:57:47 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It isn't an assertion, it is a faith based belief. I am not saying God exists, but that I believe God exists.
This debate is so old that at this point both sides have a burden of proof. I do not claim to be "right" or "correct".
I theorize that God is real based upon a select few events that have happened in my life that otherwise should have turned out drastically different. Think Vincent in Pulp Fiction.
This is what I call faith.
Just because we disagree does not mean I am not going to use even a basic scientific method to scrutinize the these events.
If I know that X will kill someone, as a fact, then I've got a control group. If I experience X, I've got identical situations. If I experience X2, I now have a control group and an experimental group. My independent variable being a higher power, and my dependent variable being surviving.
Yes, it is not quite an experiment, but when you can't recreate something you've experienced first hand you can still apply the principles. I do not get to say to you that you are wrong, based on this "experiment", but I am most definitely able to assert that my faith is as legitimately conceived as your opinion.
My point is that neither side is "right", because the whole point is to not know factually, but to have faith. You either have faith in a higher power, or believe that this is it.
Edit: this is not the no true Scott's fallacy, this is not gatekeeping. If you want to say you are a Christian, you have to behave the way the religion dictates. These are people that accept a President with a cult following who refers to him as God Emporor. When his own religious advisor said that to speak out against Trump is to go against God, these "Christians" did not remove their support. These men are charlatans.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:00:16 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It isn't an assertion, it is a faith based belief. I am not saying God exists, but that I believe God exists.
Do you care whether your beliefs are true?
This debate is so old that at this point both sides have a burden of proof.
That's absolutely false. Age does not change the way logic functions.
Atomhed ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:05:38 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You remind me of the type of person who says water boarding is no big deal, that they could handle it, it isn't torture...only to tap out in 2 seconds to then say, yes, it is absolutely torture.
Do you know what the definition of belief is?
I have clearly explained my views on faith vs hard facts.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:09:19 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You remind me of the type of person who says water boarding is no big deal, that they could handle it, it isn't torture...only to tap out in 2 seconds to then say, yes, it is absolutely torture.
That's not even relevant to the discussion. What are you even talking about?? Sean Hannity is a christian!
Atomhed ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:22:08 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not referring to Sean Hannity. I'm referring to Mancow Muller.
I'm a Space Marine.
I said so.
Must be true.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:25:26 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a Space Marine.
I said so.
Must be true.
I don't even know what you're talking about anymore.
Are you somehow accusing me of making the same mistake about burden of proof that you made in your first comment?
Atomhed ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:37:08 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm saying that it takes more to follow a religion than just saying one does, and that if you believe anything anyone says just because they say it, then you've got no place to speak about burden of proof.
In this debate, any side that says their belief is fact has a burden of proof. That includes religious people. At least I'm speaking in terms that acknowledge what I believe is merely what I believe.
servohahn ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:27:02 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It does often enough. In fact saying something like "the devil was in me" frequently is the apology.
Well if he was a Catholic all he would have to do is go to a priest and say oops I'm sorry. He would be completely absolved. Like it never happened. One of the many reasons I am no longer Catholic or religious of any type
Unsurprisingly, fundamentalists don't necessarily practice the religion correctly. They just obsess about it more.
merlore8 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:21:25 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not necesaarily...my family is generic Christian and when my family found out my dad was cheating on my mom, she was convinced the devil had 'posessed' him. My question was why can't he just be an asshole? Why can't he be accountable for his actions?
I wouldn't read too far into the logic of religion.
ad8871 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:46:44 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Notably, there are branches of very mainstream Christianity that come quite close to this line of thinking. Reformed theology / Calvinism essentially believes that we are all hopelessly depraved and stuck in sin, and God chooses whom he will save and whom he will not save. If you're chosen, there's nothing you can do to escape the pull/draw of God, and if you're not chosen, there's nothing you can really do to claw your way into the Kingdom.
Regardless of this line of thinking, they still admit that they don't know who is in or out so they still try to make everyone own their guilt and feel bad about it. So even these churches would expect you to apologize for your sin and try to live better
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:56:26 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He knows. We give human being far too much credit. This man is as evil as evil comes.
You see he believes strongly in prayer. He prayed eeevery night for a lover, then he realized the Lord in his wisdom does not work that way... Soooo he raped them instead and prayed for forgiveness!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:39:59 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Expert level responsibility dodging.
kingeryck ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:09:42 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Like anyone pays attention to the rules when it comes to their own behavior
g33kn3t ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:43:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I am (close to) same religion...can confirm this is his (idiotic) comments alone and does not particularly reflect the views and opinions of all of the sane people here. Even the devil was like "bro, srsly that was all you".
The moment he made this claim Iโd hope he would be given one opportunity to confirm this is what he believes, before being stripped of everything he owns or prizes because thatโs all Godโs fault.
The search has been called off due to the discovery of the super devil. Resources were diverted to finding the super devil, who is at least six inches taller, rides a motorcycle, and has a jar of marmalade that we suspect forces people to commit adultery.
Well, he actually did admit he did something wrong:
โTwelve years ago, as a young teenager, I acted inexcusably for which I am extremely sorry and deeply regret,โ [...] โI hurt others, including my family and close friends. I confessed this to my parents who took several steps to help me address the situation.
โWe spoke with the authorities where I confessed my wrongdoing, and my parents arranged for me and those affected by my actions to receive counseling. I understood that if I continued down this wrong road that I would end up ruining my life.โ source
I mean he's still a creep, and he still only confessed and apologized after it came out, but it's not true that he didn't accept responsibility. That quote is what an "unnamed source" thinks he "probably" would say:
But one thing you probably wonโt hear is that heโs actually sorry, as he believes that external forces were to blame for his behavior.โ source
I swear I remember reading that the trooper they went to was a friend of the family, and I was under the impression that they didn't report it to him as a cop but went to him in an informal manner, like the way my parents had a cop friend come over and give me a stern talking to when they found a joint in my room.
I'll bet my last dollar that your first quote was read off a piece of paper prepared by his lawyer.
Refusal to read it could have meant jail time. You know, so that he'd be amongst his own kind. Criminals.
Well, the larger tragedy here is he's not at risk for jail time because the statue of limitations had passed. That needs to be fixed -- and the good news is, it's changing in many states.
And even though most confessions like this are probably carefully crafted by a third-party, it's still not fair to pretend that a tabloid's account of what an unnamed source thinks Dugger would probably say... is actually a quote from him.
My only point here is this headline is intentionally misleading, and crappy clickbait "journalism" sucks.
I do not believe that just because someone molests a child, it really doesn't matter whether what we say about them is true or not.
EDIT: Sorry, you were just commenting on the story, not attacking me. OP has my panties in a bunch because I can't stand how quick people are to believe and propagate things that reinforce their existing views, no matter how easy it is to confirm they're lies. I don't know or care anything about this jerk -- but it was so clearly yellow journalism yet so many people jumped into the fray.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:14:25 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He can be burned alive at the stake for all I care. Stomp on his testicles with stilettos if you want.
My only point is, no matter what someone says, does or is accused of, we owe it to ourselves to respect the facts. Don't say he can't admit he did something wrong, if he published a statement saying he did something wrong. Don't say he's blaming it on the devil, if he never said that.
Say he's a lying, cheating, piece of garbage. But no matter how bad you think he is, it's never ok to fabricate and propagate lies.
He didn't get caught, either. He went to his parents and confessed. They ignored it until a year later when he told them he was still doing it.
Sounds like he did the best he could as a fucked-up kid, and it's on his parents that their reputation was more important than protecting their daughters (and daughter's friends) from continuing sexual molestation.
I also think he'd have garnered more sympathy if it had ended with that, but then along came Ashley Madison and it's like... you didn't learn a thing did you?
He's probably got weird sex issues from his upbringing, and his wife could, too. But that was about consenting adults, hard to be mad when we're talking about him molesting little girls and his parents allowing him to continue.
[deleted] ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 15:47:07 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's got absolutely nothing to do with conservatism. I'm politically left-wing as well, but when conservatives do something wrong in their personal lives it isn't always somehow an indictment or reflection of their conservatism. There's no reason whatsoever to believe that there is some inherent connection between political conservatism and refusing to admit fault.
It's about taboos. This does often end up linked with conservatism, but others do it as well.
The classic example is the conservative family that has internal turmoil but pretends that everything was fine or that it was all someone elses' fault to the outside to maintain a public facade. Often it has something to do with love and sexuality, like a homosexual family member, infidelity, or sexual violence.
The left/progressives are usually the ones breaking with such taboos or advocating honesty (like the honesty to admit that a marriage won't work out - see the history of divorce) to begin with, so on many of these topics they are better off. Their issue seems to be more around taboos like racism and sexism where different subgroups act with different strictness.
grubas ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:43:12 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They are confusing conservative with GOP-evangelical. AKA family values and White Jesus. The people who want to ban porn for corrupting society, the lack of jaysus causing hurricanes, etc..
So when they cheat it becomes a whole weird ass, "I have sought atone/I was tempted".
Now you can be "liberal" aka Democract and be like that(Weiner), but goddamn it is funnier/sadder when it is people like that
01dSAD ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:47:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
โJaysusโ
Made me waste some food coffee spewed from my nose, but it was worth it for the laugh.
Scmadrid ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 15:43:18 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think it's more than a conservative playbook. It's the nature of many people.
You need to snap out of your fantasy reality. Republicans indisputably carry the majority of blame for actively making life miserable for the overwhelming majority of Americans.
Click preferences next to your username. Scroll down, uncheck the box that says "Allow Reddits to show me custom styles."
If you're under 18, consider going to university in Europe. It's unimaginably cheap, and almost all major European cities offer a better quality of life than almost all American cities. Study engineering and you'll be allowed to stay afterwards.
If you're over 18, it's not too late. Apply to universities in Europe, to study engineering. That's the only way into Europe.
And yeah, I'm only 16 so I suppose I still have a chance. I kinda already had some thoughts of moving out of the US as soon as I was able. It's been a shit show these last 2 years.
dangolo ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 14:54:15 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Those links are amazing. CMV's professional contrarians were stunned and ran away screaming :)
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:55:28 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
wow, a whole month to respond and /u/pfabs never could come up with anything to back up his assertion.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:06:15 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:17:29 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:27:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:30:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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pfabs ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:43:15 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You can look through my post history, I make arrangements all the time. Yours is nothing but insults and trolling.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:52:51 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Last time I ran into you, you said I was lying about the existence of my grandma, lol. Get help
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:15:37 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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Swillyums ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:35:29 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Of course your political alignment doesn't automatically make you a good person any more than it makes you a bad one, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't compare the two. One has a purpose and history that is shown to be counterproductive to a healthy society.
Your argument is like saying that their were good members of the Nazi party. Of course that's an exaggeration, but the principle is the same.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:45:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
key difference: Those republicans don't get elected.
No one gives a shit if you have a liberal friend who checks all the 'stereotypical raging sjw strawman' boxes. They aren't the ones drafting and passing laws.
Actual goddamn republican congressmen deny climate change, want to revoke healthcare from millions, want to revoke net neutrality, want to torpedo campaign finance reform, want to remove any and all regulations on big businesses, but also want to put in place purposefully stifling regulations on women's bodies.
Yes debt is suffocating, couldnโt agree more, but that medical issue that equates to debt here is a death sentence in other countries, plus we are living longer because of scientific advances but living longer increases the chances of a medical issue
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 15:32:00 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What about compared to industrialized nations of the size of the US? Any examples of this ideal health care system in countries of close to 400 million and up?
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:10:48 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You can compare anything to anything, you just wonโt derive much information from doing that. You can compare apples to oranges but wonโt learn very much except that they are different, but have some similarities like being a fruit and having seeds. What I mean by that is if you want to learn about apples, donโt study oranges, study apples. Yes there are a bunch of nations but thereโs also Macroeconomics. Size does matter.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:36:37 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think the point here is that we attempt to make points to gain points...but Iโm losing points making points.
Points
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:12:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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racoonx ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:28:14 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Uh, thats not how economy of scale works, and we are talking about a service rather than a good. Economies of scale have there own upper limits, with diminishing returns turning to loss at a certain point, depending on the product.
That being said, the US system is complete shit in terms of dollar put in due to the large amount of the money paid going to administrative and bureaucratic costs of having to deal with insurance companies that almost every other developed nation in the world doesn't have.
Our mortality rate has actually stagnated despite living in the most "medically advanced" nation in the world. There are 30 nations ahead of us in terms of life expectancy at this point. For a country that holds 40% of the world's wealth I think we can afford to do a liiittle better.
Are you suggesting that the size of our population would be detrimental to the effectiveness of universal healthcare? Does that mean smaller insurance companies are more successful than larger ones? I've never seen anyone explain this argument past "well we have more people."
Heck, if everyone's so touchy about "population" what about having 50 separate single-payer systems? Texas alone has the same amount of wealth as Canada and 10 million less people. Going by that logic, several states would be able to manage it just fine on their own. Unfortunately, some states (coughtheDeepSouthcough) are poor and rely on federal funding to get by. We're already paying for their healthcare in one form or another anyway. So why not just make it one universal system? What are your arguments against claims that healthcare costs will go down if that were implemented? We also can't ignore that the US spends almost 3k more per person on healthcare each year than the nation with the second most expensive system. Going back to our #31 spot on the global life expectancy list, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
I think 50 separate systems sounds great. Put the responsibility on the states and let them work it out. When systems get as large as universal healthcare, there is just too much money, too many people in administration, and too many people that actually need healthcare get lost in the numbers. The reason population is a constant factor here is because class systems are too extreme and it drains the whole system eventually because the middle class ends up paying for the majority of it and canโt support it
So what happens to federal funding for the poorest states in the country? They continue receiving money under an entirely different system, or do they get shafted? Also, there have been proposals for single payer that don't put the burden on the middle class. That's not where our country's wealth is. Unfortunately they don't call the shots either, so of course those who do are going to make it look like the average joe is the one losing out.
Thatโs a good question. I think one way to go would be reducing federal income tax for the individual and increasing state income tax On a sliding scale so there are fewer people to manage and the states can focus in locally on poverty issues or whatever issues are local to that state.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:46:57 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
death sentence in other countries
Oh right, I forgot, 3rd world countries still exist so we aren't allowed to join the rest of the modern western world.
Yes. because the right are the ones who deny science. Lmao, this is why I prefer lurking, it's nothing but a bubble full of idiots in the comments including me.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 15:16:32 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Republican party is the only major conservative party in the world that still denies climate change. What do liberals deny that even approaches this scale?
well, i agree it's far worse if it's (federally) elected legislators, but i wouldn't want to minimize anti-vaxxer's impact prior to that level. whooping cough and other diseases are making a comeback because of those "randos". Unfortunately, there are enough of them that it's making a difference and perhaps one day they will have an elected representative. We cannot ignore them until it gets to that point, imo.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:13:50 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree, they're dumb jackasses and should be shut down. Luckily democrats are passing laws making vaccines mandatory.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:53:49 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sure, but that's not a valid comparison. Afaik those anti-vaxxers aren't senators. and I don't have exact polls but dont a majority of republicans deny human caused climate change? Anti-vaxxers probably struggle to be 1% among Democrats.
Edit: didn't Trump also endorse anti-vaxx nonsense?
Wh...what? The right are absolutely the party of denying science. They keep trying to implement intelligent design teachings over evolution and are standing on an ever dwindling island of parties and people that deny climate change.
rdrptr ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:56:02 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Seems to be a common whipping boy in conservative rants these days, but you won't find a party or anyone on the left not a fringe element saying there's anything besides male, female and transexual people who make a change to still be within the male/female binary (thus not having anything but two genders).
So, elaborate if you're going to make claims instead of just saying one word. What specifically do you think 'the left' ignores science about on gender?
rdrptr ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:03:26 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh okay, so you're just going to spit out 1-5 words and not actually engage in meaningful discussion while trying to engage or take partisan high ground. Gotcha, fun talk.
rdrptr ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:00:47 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Those are literally the only words that matter. Two chromosomes determine gender, and between them they form two stable combinations.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:53:15 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There are a number of genetic and hormonal disorders recognized by medical science that causes gender dysphoria or asexuality.
An easy one to understand is someone born "male" but with defective androgen receptors. So later in development the body is trying to produce all kinds of male hormones important for daily life and especially development during puberty but it's all to no effect.
rdrptr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:03:54 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Two chromosomes determine gender
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:44:08 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
...and you're back to denying science. Typical republican, feels over reals.
rdrptr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:42:48 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The XY sex-determination system is the sex-determination system found in humans, most other mammals, some insects (Drosophila), some snakes, and some plants (Ginkgo). In this system, the sex of an individual is determined by a pair of sex chromosomes (gonosomes). Females typically have two of the same kind of sex chromosome (XX), and are called the homogametic sex. Males typically have two distinct sex chromosomes (XY), and are called the heterogametic sex.
rdrptr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:51:47 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Agreed in terms of morphology and development. If there is a deviation from normal morphology and development, especially an unhealthy one (decreased function, harm to the individual), this would be considered a medical condition that should be treated to benefit the individual. I challenge you to find a non-intervention based, purely biological gender deviation in human beings that is not harmful to the individual.
In terms of behavior, there is no clear distinction between emotion, which can be subject to change, and inherent observable traits of an individual which can persist over time. This is psychology's domain, and psychology is a junk science.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:00:52 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't say the condition was beneficial. You think anybody who has serious gender dysphoria actually wants it? Deep down inside?
Anyway, let's start with baby steps. You're aware that people can be born with both male and female parts, right? Example: outward seeming female with undescended testicles.
rdrptr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:02:33 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Does it appear to you that I've made such a claim?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:36:05 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No.
You challenged me to find a beneficial condition.
rdrptr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:08:54 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Body dysmorphia is neurological.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:28:28 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That, and endocrine.
rdrptr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:55:37 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The correct treatment to this is most definitely not to mangle the patients genetals on their whim, nor is it to invent new genders to decieve them of their condition. The correct treatment is the treatment that reconciles their physical state.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:15:24 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, some of which would involve gene therapy or other treatments that are only on the distant horizon. How are you gonna treat a hormone imbalance if you don't even have working androgen receptors? Also, lots of that brain structure got laid down in the womb/very early development. How are you gonna change that?
rdrptr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:20:58 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
gene therapy
Again, what you're suggesting is akin to changing the car battery when the headlight is burnt out. Intervening in areas other than root cause can only bring more suffering to the patient. We've established that body dysmorphia is neurological and hormonal. The patients dysfunctional mental state is not aligned with their functional physical state.
Hormone therapies exist to reconcile the patients mental state with the reality of their physical state.
Proper neurological therapies may not, but thats no excuse for enabling the patients disease by messing with parts of them that aren't broken, their genes and their sexual anatomy.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:28:14 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hormone therapies exist to reconcile the patients mental state with the reality of their physical state.
Once again, how are you gonna implement a hormonal therapy to be more like a man if they don't even have working androgen receptors? The bedrock of 'transitioning' is hormone therapy anyway.
but thats no excuse for enabling the patients disease
The disease causes gender dysphoria. The dysphoria is the problem - your brain is female but you have a penis and have to act like a guy. Unless you're gonna tell me that male and female brains are identical. Fixing the dysphoria is admittedly fixing the symptoms instead of the cause, but afaik (there are quite a few causes) fixing the causes of dysphoria is beyond our current medical abilities. At this point, changing you to look like a woman to live how feels natural to your brain is the best we can do.
rdrptr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:36:39 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The fact that the patient no longer has the receptors does not entail that their functional components can't interpret the proper electrical signals. There's a plausible path to treatment here, experimental, but still plausible. And the fact that it isn't mainstream yet is certainly not an excuse to go about mutilating the patients sexual organs.
The disease is neurological and hormonal, not anatomical. If you're doing a major intervention such as gender reassignment, you aren't treating the disease. You aren't addressing root cause.
You're changing out a perfectly good car battery when you should change the burnt out headlight. You're enabling the patients dysfunction and aggravating their suffering.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:42:42 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The fact that the patient no longer has the receptors does not entail that their functional components can't interpret the proper electrical signals.
What does that have to do with hormones? The endocrine system and CNS are two different things You're dodging the issue.
Also, the brain isn't just "electrical signals" that can be recoded like software. It's got discrete structures that create function, the most basic of which like gender were laid down in the womb. It's both macro structure like lobes, and the connection circuitry of neurons. You don't get it - much of the brain is anatomical. You can't just change all of that by just trying hard.
rdrptr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:01:16 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The body governs itself with an electro-chemical communications system. Information from the brain to the organs are continually translated between electrical and chemical signals. Glands are part of this system, they send chemical signals to other organs and glands. Where the natural system fails, we can intervene, either with artificial chemical messengers or with an electrical bypass. The body is fundamentally a mechanical and computational system.
Which leads me to my earlier point. When the patients computational anatomy is dysfunctionally out of alignment with the patients functional mechanical anatomy, why is the socially acceptable solution to intervene in the part of the patient that isn't actually broken?
Why are we swapping perfectly functional batteries when we should be trying to swap the broken headlights?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:19:43 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, endocrine and CNS are tightly intertwined. So what? They're not fully redundant, they are dependent on each other.
we can intervene, either with artificial chemical messengers or with an electrical bypass
Not always. When your androgen receptors don't work, there is no alternative means of performing all the function of testosterone, and you cannot intervene with our current medical science. Are you suggesting the myriad of psychiatric disorders associated with chemical and hormone imbalances are fake? It's not just gender dysphoria.
why is the socially acceptable solution to intervene in the part of the patient that isn't actually broken?
Because it is quite often demonstrably broken, as with the androgen receptors, and we don't know how to fix it. You're still repeatedly denying science, there's nothing I can do if you choose to continue to put your head in the sand.
rdrptr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:34:13 on September 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Androgen receptors are the problem, not the patients sex organs. You can cause the patient a lot more harm by treating things that are not directly and concretely related to root cause.
For instance, reassigned genetals don't function well. Trans penises will never get as big as the real thing. Trans vaginas often have a problem with tissue necrosis.
Why? Because it simply isn't natural. And the result? Transexuals have a much, much higher suicide rate than the average population, especially during reassignment. The "cure" is worse than the disease.
The correct treatment is to realign the patients dysfunctional mental state to the reality of their functional physical state, not pursue unnecessary surgical intervention with parts of them that aren't actually broken.
It makes no sense to swap the battery when the problem is a burnt out headlight.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:46:50 on September 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, trans people have higher rates of suicide than the general population. It is not higher after treatment. It's understandable, really. Their conditions lead to depression, coming out leads to shunning by family and friends and general abuse by society, all things that lead to depression/suicide.
The correct treatment is to realign the patients dysfunctional mental state to the reality of their functional physical state
Once again, many of those things cannot be fixed currently. You deny science. This is a waste of my time, you continue to spout nonsense about cars and ignore the science. Predictable.
The study of the causes of transsexuality investigates gender identity formation of transgender people, especially those who are transsexual. Transsexual people have a gender identity that does not match their assigned sex, often resulting in gender dysphoria. The causes of transsexualism have been studied for decades.
The overall mortality for sex-reassigned persons was higher during follow-up (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 1.8โ4.3) than for controls of the same birth sex, particularly death from suicide (aHR 19.1; 95% CI 5.8โ62.9). Sex-reassigned persons also had an increased risk for suicide attempts (aHR 4.9; 95% CI 2.9โ8.5) and psychiatric inpatient care (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 2.0โ3.9). Comparisons with controls matched on reassigned sex yielded similar results. Female-to-males, but not male-to-females, had a higher risk for criminal convictions than their respective birth sex controls.
Conclusions
Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.
I don't stay in a bubble I have discussions with people I don't agree with, and I'm truly open to being convinced. The Dems HAVE brainwashed people, that's a fact, I'm not a conspiracy theorist in any way. I used to be a communist, I used to be a social dem, I used to think climate change might destroy the world just like you. I'm going to make one giant comment with my sourced retort to everything here soon.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:39:25 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wow so you're gonna discredit NASA and everyone else in one giant post?!
Just a warning: theblaze and infowars are not valid sources.
The fact you think I would reference internet magazines and not scholarly articles with proper peer review shows how much of a bubble you people really live in. Huffpost doesn't count either. I'm gonna say this once: statistics are deceiving, not all climate scientists agree to the scale of climate change you people purport, the science is not in and your claims have been proven wrong in the past. Stop making arguments from authority, "oh well NASA and my government overlords say it's true" SHOW ME THE DATA, proven correlations, etc. I try not to enjoy inflicting cognitive dissonance, but I don't think I'm gonna be able to help myself on this one.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:51:56 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
SHOW ME THE DATA
bitch, I already did
top_koala ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 15:08:34 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Denies objective reality and claims the other side is the one doing the brainwashing the very next sentence. Truly wonderful, the mind of a trumpet is.
Says the guy who supports a team that actively denies and censors actual science...
Do you have any clue how hilariously transparent your projection strategy is?
[deleted] ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 15:08:59 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
top_koala ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 15:09:29 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That was fast, I'm not even mad
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:03:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How does the earth sink into the ocean? like at some point there will just be a ocean floating in space? Or maybe after it absorbs all of earth it will absorb itself. My god, maybe this is how black holes are formed.
Also we are not dependent on the middle east for energy. lolololololol
Al Gore said Florida should already be gone. It's not that I am denying the climate is warming, I'm just skeptical about the level of danger the left claims is going to happen. Science is not settled on this subject no matter how much the left repeats deceptive statistics.
Without fracking, we would be and you guys are trying to stop that. No matter how much you want every persons car and guns taken away, millions of Americans are gonna drive diesel trucks and that means we need oil. The Saudis have the oil.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:24:43 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
-Need oil to drive our cars
-Forced to rely on fracking
-Forced to depend on Saudi prince's for oil
-Republicans actively opposing renewable energy funding
Hmmm...
Swillyums ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:42:00 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wow, how is it that you've become so much smarter than the overwhelming majority of climate and NASA scientists!? If you've shown them to be so wrong, how isn't it you getting paid to tell us about the climate and send things into space. It certainly can't be pure hubris making you believe that you are more knowledgeable than 99% of people who have dedicated their lives to the study of climate.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:27:43 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Al Gore is part of the Illuminati sent to discredit real climate concerns, he is a figurehead to draw attention to the real shell game happening, the fact that the oceans are coming for our babies.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:26:07 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Al Gore said it would be underwater by 2017? Source?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:26:18 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
We don't buy much oil from Saudi Arabia though, we buy more from Mexico. It has nothing to do with fracking
If you have some scientific sources that claim climate change is not a danger, can you please share them? I have not been able to find anything in Google and am genuinely curious why people are saying climate change is a partisan issue.
Swillyums ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:37:23 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
US isn't remotely dependent on middle Eastern energy. They get something like 3% of it from the Saudis. Most comes from Canada, and a great deal from south America.
Didn't say that either. Dude you need to fix your critical reading and writing. You keep making blanket statements like the left, the right do this and don't do that. And you keep pulling assumptions about what I'm saying from your ass. I said religious figures in general. As in all religious figures have the chance to use their given power for bad things and quite a few of them do just that. It's not political at all I'm speaking only of those in powerful positions.
You accused that guy of making blanket statements, and then immediately made a statement about "religious figures in general." And yet you're the one criticizing his critical thinking and writing. The irony is hilarious.
If you could read I said what I'm talking about is "religious figures in general" as a way to show what a blanket statement is. I then broke it down into a very precise statement that claims facts that some religious figures in power take advantage of said power. That is 100% fact.
That's exactly what I meant. That's why I said some of those who can do that, will sometimes do it. Like that's just how things work it's simple. If someone can do something there's a chance they will.
Edit: I'm also not claiming to be a genius or even smart just stating the obvious because some people need that.
Your response to this is very odd. You defended the statement directly, and then went off on me for my first reply in the thread. You should calm down.
dangolo ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 14:40:05 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Will conservatives give us a refund for the massive waste that was the war in Afghanistan?
Again, what does this have to do with my comment? You people are weirdos, it's like you hear people saying things that they don't actually say just so you can have something to argue against
Will conservatives please stop putting 98% of the federal budget into the military when our military is already five times bigger than the next biggest one and millions of Americans don't have access to basic things like education, healthcare, food, housing, or clean water?
Why is it a bad idea to take 0.01% of the military's budget - a couple of billion dollars - and actually invest in something that will benefit American society, such as education?
[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 15:08:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, the one that GWB started and gave no clear vision for how to actually achieve victory
Haz3rd ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 15:03:14 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
conservatives try multiple times to take away healthcare from people
Look how evil those liberals are
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:01:08 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Republicans 2008:
obamacare will put in literal death panels and kill your grandma and you'll be stuck waiting in line for 4 months for a heart attack!
Republicans 2017:
no, ripping away healthcare from 20 million people, mostly the poor and elderly, directly resulting in hundreds of thousands of deaths, which could be prevented by us simply not being fucking psychopathic shitbags, is completely different and how dare you fear monger, this is why trump won
Everyone does wrong, we all know that, stop getting defensive.
[deleted] ยท 33 points ยท Posted at 14:33:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The whole "but they do it too" argument has been being made a lot lately. DAE both parties are the same?
rederic ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 14:35:56 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm just waiting the day they shift the narrative to "Trump campaigned as a Democrat candidate."
[deleted] ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 14:40:26 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I promise you when they finally jump off the sinking ship, it will be brought up that Trump was a registered Democrat and donated to the Clinton foundation. There's already been conspiracies thrown out that he's a plant by Soros to take down the Republican party from the inside. The lunacy these dildos will believe is astonishing.
Who? Who thinks this? Are you judging millions of people based on what you read on a single r/conspiracy post? Does any credible conservative believe this or are you just mud slinging to feed your own ego?
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 14:59:09 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was far more than once but I'm not about to scour /r/the_donald and /r/conspiracy just to vindicate myself. Just because you aren't a total loon who believes all sorts of whacked out nonsense doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people who share your political ideology who are.
Just because you aren't a total loon who believes all sorts of whacked out nonsense doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people who share your political ideology who are.
If you really think those two subs represent conservatism you really shouldn't be having political conversations. And are you saying there aren't people on the left who believe in whacked out nonsense?
Because I've got 72 genders to show you.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:19:55 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When did I say they were the sole representation of conservatism? But you can't just pretend that they don't exist and that they aren't a mouthpiece for some of the more extremist conservative viewpoints. If the left has to own ANTIFA and SJWs, the right needs to start owning the Alex Jones watchin, tinfoil hat wearing tea partiers too.
I find misleading clickbait headlines, and people who share them, to be equally infuriating. The original article is here, and its source is a reference (not a link) to another website, which in turn quotes an "unnamed source." That source's quote is:
Josh will cover everything and he will maintain the family line that god has saved his soul and guided him back to the right path. But one thing you probably wonโt hear is that heโs actually sorry, as he believes that external forces were to blame for his behavior.
So the headline is bullshit; Duggar didn't make any such claim. Some other anonymous person said that about him. EDIT: And even that person said "external forces," which is quite different than "the devil."
I find misleading clickbait headlines, and people who share them, to be equally infuriating. The original article is here, and its source is a reference (not a link) to another website, which in turn quotes an "unnamed source." That source's quote is:
Josh will cover everything and he will maintain the family line that god has saved his soul and guided him back to the right path. But one thing you probably wonโt hear is that heโs actually sorry, as he believes that external forces were to blame for his behavior.
So the headline is bullshit; Duggar didn't make any such claim. Some other anonymous person said that about him. EDIT: And even that person said "external forces," which is quite different than "the devil."
Josh Duggar said Thursday that he โacted inexcusablyโ and was โdeeply sorryโ for what he called โmy wrongdoing.โ [...]
โTwelve years ago, as a young teenager, I acted inexcusably for which I am extremely sorry and deeply regret,โ Duggar said in a statement posted on Facebook on Thursday. โI hurt others, including my family and close friends. I confessed this to my parents who took several steps to help me address the situation. We spoke with the authorities where I confessed my wrongdoing, and my parents arranged for me and those affected by my actions to receive counseling. I understood that if I continued down this wrong road that I would end up ruining my life.โ source
So, not only did he not say what OP said he said, but he did accept responsibility.
Again -- he's a creep and a douchebag. But we seriously need to do better than making up and repeating stories because it reinforces our existing beliefs.
Zoltrahn ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 16:09:26 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There is already a mountain of reasons to hate Duggar. We don't need to make up new ones.
Michamus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:15:34 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The closest I can find is this source where he says he allowed Satan to "build a fortress in his heart". Like you said, that's a far cry from saying "The devil made me do it."
No, itโs not interpretation. Itโs a baseless statement about another person from an anonymous source. Literally anyone could say anything about anyone by your standard.
Noshamina ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:20:16 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I guess it totally hinges on how credible that anonymous source is and it doesn't exactly look like they are willing to part with that knowledge on this very opinionated piece.
Given if it were true that he won't apologize and he did claim that external forces made him do all those things, then it wouldn't be a stretch to think he was talking about the devil considering his religious upbringing, yet it all hinges on that and you are right that it's not enough to be credible.
But after you molest that many people and your entire community and family recognized you did it, you don't get a lot of breaks from other people dragging your name through the mud.
Z0MGbies ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:23:18 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What else would those forces be though? Unless it's something physical, tangible, and you can take picture if it, then it makes no difference whether it was "the devil", God or in between
I find misleading clickbait headlines, and people who share them, to be equally infuriating.
Equally infuriating? Equally infuriating. You find clickbait equally infuriating as a man (presumably) refusing to apologize for molesting his children.
I understand that this is more a Reddit turn-of-phrase and not something you actually meant, but think about this. You wrote that you find clickbait equally as infuriating as the idea of an unrepentant child molester. Okay.
My point is that maybe you want to think about what cliche phrases you're spouting off. It's not really an established turn of phrase, it's just something you see people write on Reddit all the time. It just always cracks me up when I see someone go "yeah hmm that clip of animal abuse is pretty bad, but I'm equally mad that this is a repost". I kind of dilutes the meaning of what you're saying, and it's also pretty damn dismissive of the actual issue at hand.
The source goes on to explain that while Duggar will discuss sexually abusing his underage sisters as well as his marital infidelities and pornography addiction, he will not apologize for his actions, because the devil made him do it:
Josh will cover everything and he will maintain the family line that god has saved his soul and guided him back to the right path. But one thing you probably wonโt hear is that heโs actually sorry, as he believes that external forces were to blame for his behavior.
hahaha. If youโre white, male, Christian thatโs as responsible as you ever need to be. Everything else is everyone elseโs fault. ESPECIALLY women. In Josh Duggars case, the devil sleeping girls. They were asking for it. Probably werenโt even modestly dressing.... since they were sleeping and all.
Srsly. Fuck this guy.
[deleted] ยท 50 points ยท Posted at 15:06:57 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"White, Christian males are the single most oppressed group in America."
That is a direct quote from someone I'm arguing with in /r/cringeanarchy
A lot of these people have a warped perception of reality that really makes them feel better about themselves. If you try to argue with them they just make accusations and deny responsibility. It's super weird.
I actually unfriended an acquaintance recently because he was also doing that weird sort of mental gymnastics. In the same paragraph on some minor political meme I posted (in support of Muslims), he proclaimed how awful Muslims were and how all they teach is killing in their mosques (funny that, he couldn't answer when someone else asked if he actually sat in during one of their services to provide this sort of knowledge), while saying his religion taught him to love.
Uh
I don't know how he deals with that glaring dissonance. I try to keep friends and acquaintances no matter their political/religious outlooks to keep my head in the game, but he was a bit too much after I asked him to behave several times. It got to the point that my other more level-headed friends were getting into arguments with him. He also whines about "not finding a good Christian girl" while talking shit about them like a typical red piller.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:49:59 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I have stopped speaking to friends for the same reason.
Also, the reason I am so quick to defend Muslims is i have actually been to a mosque and sat in a service, just like you describe. I am an atheist and I had to interview the imam of a nearby mosque for a project in college. I was fucking terrified. Guess what though? They were the kindest, most-welcoming group of people I've ever met - they didn't care that I was an atheist (I told them) they were just happy that a non-Muslim was there to learn about their culture. They all wanted to meet me, give me free food, introduce me to their families, etc. Every single one of them thanked me for coming to the mosque because I gave them the chance to prove that they were a normal, caring group of people.
Muslims in America draw unfair attention from biased people who don't know anything about Islam or modern Muslims. I used to be one of those biased people...I would have never realized it if I hadn't visited the mosque. Reddit is full of those people - they never had to confront their bias against Muslims, so they believe they're unbiased people, but really they show tremendous bias and hate towards Islam. It's especially bad from certain pious redditors, they spew hateful, untrue shit about Islam in these anti-Muslim echo chambers, it's disgusting. These people don't know any real Muslims and they don't know what Islam really teaches, they just repeat whatever hateful shit people say. Like, THERE ARE TONS of redditors who believe all Muslims are violent extremists, it's insane. Then they act like Christianity is some wildly different religion that has never inspired violence, if you bring up the crusades or burning people at the stake they just gloss over it like it's nothing. Idk how to deal with that
You nailed it. What also kills me about this guy's hatred is that we live in a community where there's a large population of Senegalese. Guess what their core religion is? That's right--Islam. I've worked side by side with these people for the last four years and they've been kind as could be, like any other normal person. The ones closer to my age love to share their heritage, they showed me pictures of their families back home. The fact that he walks the same streets and stores as them daily while spouting such hatred absolutely kills me. There's more to this guy than being a generic American (he's from the Netherlands), but it's almost scary how close-minded he is for being such a proud Christian.
This shit always gets me on a roll, but I'll stop for now lmao. I just don't get the hate, I really don't. Bad people come in all forms.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:04:41 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
/r/cringeanarchy is a texbook example of alt-right cowards who resort to "it's just a joke man!" because they don't want to be responsible for being pieces of shit.
They put
"sub Reddit room for alt right trolls" as their title as a 'joke' but it's completely true.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:08:50 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's sad. It sucks that those people are all so hateful.
zjt2846 ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 15:17:01 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you're arguing with them there, you know that person is super representative of white Christian males. Very generalizable. Keep getting us good data!
ChrisS97 ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 15:19:44 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He never said that guy is representative of all white Christian males.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:22:20 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks for looking out for me, fam
zjt2846 ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 15:22:34 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
True. He just implied it and then drew a direct connection to "a lot of these guys." You're right, I should've ignored the heart of his argument and accepted his point on technicality.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:28:01 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
he just implied it
Where? Show me exactly where I did that, because, I think that's just your personal misinterpretation of my words.
I said "a lot of these people," I didn't say "every white Christian male in America." Your bias is showing.
zjt2846 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:39:26 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I would truly love to hear what you think my bias is. I promise I'll tell you what I really think after you guess.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:57:06 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sure!
I criticized some white Christian males. You interpreted that as an attack on all white Christian males. The most likely reason for you to interpret my words that way is that you felt personally attacked by what I said - in other words, you felt like my criticism was directed at you, even though it wasn't. This leads me to believe you're a white, Christian male. If that is the case, then you have the bias of a white, Christian male.
I don't know you, though, so I could be wrong. Can't imagine another reason you would misinterpret my words though. I think you've got a personal interest in this conversation, and, you're getting a little defensive ;)
Also, you ignored my question. Where did I imply that I was talking about all white Christian males? Seems to me I was talking about one white Christian male, as well as referencing others like that one guy, but I never said anything about "all" white Christian males.
zjt2846 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:59:31 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In reply to a comment that said something to the effect of white Christian males don't like to take responsibility for their actions, you state that "a lot of these people" have warped perspectives and so on. This sounds to me like you're making the claim that a lot of a people group (white Christian males) have a warped perspective.
I admit that your isolated comment moreso implies that "a lot of these people" applies to people who specifically hold the belief you mentioned. But in the context of the thread, I maintain that it's easy to read that to apply more generally.
And you are wrong on my bias. My bias is against inflammatory comments that lazily generalize and make things unnecessarily racist or political. I think this Duggar guy seems like a real piece of scum. I don't know why conservatives and white guys have to come into it.
I think conversations should focus on people shouldn't make excuses, that this behavior is inexcusable, that what he's done is terrible, that it's awful what has happened to the victims, etc.
If you didn't mean white Christian males, then I don't have a problem with jyour stance. But you should choose your word carefully in threads like this. Because there is a lot of racist and negative political commentary on this thread, and in the context, your comment reads quite similar.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:12:24 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Fair enough :D
you are wrong on my bias
You're not a white, Christian male?
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:22:02 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You're doing the same thing the other guy is doing - putting words in my mouth and drawing false meaning. I never said that the guy I'm talking to is representative of ALL Christian males, my whole point is that he's WRONG about himself and others. All I'm trying to do is talk some sense into him.
You are an overly sensitive person.
zjt2846 ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 15:38:04 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Based on our comments, I must say you seem to be much more upset and defensive. I wonder which of us is more sensitive?
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:54:47 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Definitely you.
You were triggered by criticism directed towards some (not all) white Christian males. Now you're trying to deflect the blame for this by accusing me of being sensitive. Let's just recap how our conversation went - I said "you are overly sensitive," and your reply was "NUH UH, YOU'RE SENSITIVE, NOT ME!"
Let me know what I can do to better accommodate your sensitive needs ;)
zjt2846 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:49:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Please tell me you see the irony in ^ this comment?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:11:18 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You're looking for ways to shut me down and it's not gonna work ;)
zjt2846 ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 14:50:05 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, let's compare this criminal to large population of people and imply they're all like that! I just wish I had a broader brush...
Looks like there was a Change.org petition seeking to get that statute eliminated.
I'm no expert and I guess statutes are supposed to serve a real purpose, but 7 years sure doesn't seem like enough, especially when you're talking about children.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:03:54 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
bobafelty ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:39:07 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He was a jr or sr in high school and his youngest victim was 9.
volabimus ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 15:20:54 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 14:42:39 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is from anonymous source talking to InTouch Weekly about what she thinks he thinks. This probably the most bullshit thing Iโve seen on Reddit in a while.
Get pissed off at a guy for diddling kids, not this garbage.
dirice87 ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 15:19:04 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So much about everyone involved with them is sickening.
Fuck his dad for not reporting the abuse immediately and instead 'discplining at home', then a whole year later went to church elders instead of police
Fuck the church elders who simply sent Josh away to a different city as punishment
FUCK TLC for rebranding and renewing the show as Counting On despite knowing ALL of this.
So many failures by all these people to do the basic decent thing, but instead self served their interests instead of protect young children. Fuck them all.
Voidsabre ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:52:58 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A 14 year old who rapes girls close to his age is not a pedophile. Rapist? Yes. Criminal? Also yes. Creep? Without a doubt. But not a pedophile in the traditional sense
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:10:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
Voidsabre ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:15:57 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's speculation, I was just trying to bring up facts
shifa_xx ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 07:53:30 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I know you were on the facts. I was just trying to bring up the scenario where the facts would mean he could have got more severe consequences than what we know he ended up getting.
Funny how he and his family says gays and trans people will molest children so we have to take away their rights. But oh no it's ok when he does it because it wasn't his fault....
Jguy97 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:54:55 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
As a Christian myself his logic is incredibly flawed. Yes, Satan does encourage sin, but however it's up to man to act upon those temptations. "โThe temptations in your life are no different from what others experience. And God is faithful. He will not allow the temptation to be more than you can stand. When you are tempted, he will show you a way out so that you can endure.โ
โญโญ1 Corinthiansโฌ โญ10:13โฌ โญNLTโฌโฌ
Come on, Josh. The devil and his demons tempt us, but we are also naturally drawn to sin anyway. It's our nature. The Lord gives us the ability to resist sin. Forgot the passage, but it's something like He will not let us be tempted beyond our own ability. You have all the power to say no to your temptations. If you molest a kid, that's on you. It's not the devil that did it, it might not even be the devil that tempted you to do it. You decided to not resist, and you molested. That's how it works. You can't shift the blame
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:13:34 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How is this only mildly infuriating? It's horrendous. I thought this sub was for the little things that bug people. Not human fucking turds who molest children.
THEN APOLOGIZE FOR NOT BEING STRONG ENOUGH TO "RESIST SATAN", YOU FUCK-BUCKET.
Either way, you fucked up big time.
idma ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:55:38 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
guys, guys, i know what he did is an asshole move, but please, please, please, please don't take this as THE only impression you'll have on religion. He's an asshole, just keep it at that. NOT the religion. He's just using it as a crutch. If Jesus/Muhammad/Ghandi/flying-spagetti-monster/joseph smith/God/Nicholas Cage were to see this they would be like "yo, dude, keep me out of this"
Sormaj ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:20:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is less "mildly infuriating" and more "absolutely disgusting"
Voidsabre ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:21:03 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He didn't say this, an anonymous source who CLAIMS they know him said that's probably something he would say. Josh Duggar is a piece of garbage, but so is whoever made this fake quote. You don't need lies to show how much of a creep he is
ahhhh. Gotta love fundamentalist Christianity. Their logic makes sense 100% of the time.
/s
Voidsabre ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:54:02 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He didn't even say this, it's a fake quote. His actions are disgusting and inexcusable, but he has shown remorse and hasn't said anything along the lines of "the devil made me do it"
Genuinely being sorry for something is an important step of rehabilitation, which is a pretty big change. If the devil made him do something before it can make him do something again.
I've always hate seeing apologies by public figures because of this. I don't want them to waste time and effort on a scripted PR apology that someone else write, I want them to fix what they messed up. But I know they are forced to because other people don't view it the same way I do.
โIโm sorryโ is not an apology. Itโs an expression of pity. An apology expresses regret, empathy, and an assurance that the action in question will not happen again.
I don't see how they're allowed to do that (I'm not doubting you, just flabbergasted). Especially when it was brought to light that the parents knew what was happening at the time and helped cover it up.
How sad. I can't imagine how hard it is for the daughters who were molested to be in the lime light and on public television and act like they're family is so wonderful.
Someone should fact check me lol. I have no clue if I'm correct.
I totally agree. I mean dude molested his SISTERS for years, and he is probably gonna be a dad to at least a couple girls seeing that they think babies=salvation. Pretty fucked imo
I hope dudes wife gets her wits about her and leaves his ass. The institutional attitude w folks like this is that the man has the last word. Surely she could carve out a career for her self and become self sufficient, and I hope she does. It really really makes me so fucking mad that a religion can kids go through hell and not even validate their pain. By letting this guy go, it reinforces him and devalidates all his victims. Shit like THIS, however outlandish a sect of people, is why I will always call myself a feminist. Dudes like this shouldn't get away with it. And Women shouldn't stand there and take it.
shifa_xx ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:17:51 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think his wife would ever be leaving him. She just gave birth to baby #5 a few weeks ago, and she has no education or job to bring up 5 kids on her own. Which is sad because it means she'll be stuck with that looser for the rest of her life, most likely having more of his babies :(
I mean, he's a child molester and he's been caught having an affair using the old Ashley Madison site. I don't know what else he could do. I just think his wife lacks self respect.
At face value, yeah I totally agree w that statement. But she has been manipulated for a long time(her whole life) that this religion deal is the be all end all. The amount of shaming and shunning that is done to people who leave these sort of semi-cult religions is just cruel. She likely believes that (probably rightly so) that she won't be able to see her family or friends if she leaves. And Also, most money is probably in his name, meaning running may be easier said than done. We don't know this woman's struggles. I don't understand why she would stay but I always settle on trying to empathize bc it's gotta be a tough spot she's in.
Jguy97 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:11:17 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So, wait. What religion are these guys in? Christianity does not shun people that leave it, Jehovah's Witnesses do, and they shun the family members that don't as well. I don't know about Mormons though.
I believe it's fundamentalist Christians? I'm not entirely sure.
I think w mormons it depends on how intense they are. Fundementalist Mormans(FLDS) do shun, but they are the ones who have compounds and shit.
I just think that she wouldn't leave him bc of perceived repercussions to her and her kids. she probably popped out #5 as some sick test to see if her pedo husband was 'cured' or some shit
Jguy97 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:17:50 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But Fundamentalist Christians don't shun. So, I have no idea.
Jguy97 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:25:41 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe, even if they did that would be going against Christian teaching. (Been Christian for 5 years, parents were before I was born, so I can confirm that it must be some sort of wackiness idea that they cooked up. Yes Christianity sometimes does support ostracism, but that is only done after confronting the person in question, over sin, and even then, that confrontation comes over willing, intentional habitual sin, such as adultery, drug use, being a drunk, and then refusing to change their ways after being confronted by 1. A fellow Christian, 2. Three Christians, and then 3. They still refuse after being confronted by the Church about it. The whole point of it is to show a Christian that is refusing to leave sin, that it's not good, and that God has no communion with sin.
shifa_xx ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:14:45 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well apparently it's not got Josh in it like the previous show did. The new show is only based on some of the other (married) kids of that family.
As long as Josh isn't starting in it people generally wouldn't care I guess.
dangolo ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:46:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why isn't he in jail yet?
owg123 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:52:26 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yanks fuckin hell, Yanks and religion is worse than 20th century Ireland. This is the shit that causes the people over at /r/atheism to go insane & they're the saddest people/biggest gobshites on this planet.
Doesnt matter what side you're on or what group you belong to, the amount of scapegoating and blaming actions on other's these days is fucking ridiculous. Some village was attacked by rebels in some small country? It's trumps fault. Russia didn't hack the election? Bullshit! Oh he was mentally ill and not actually a terrorist. Oh it wasn't a hate crime they were just misguided youth. North korea is only mad because big bad america hurt their feelings.
Like, can people own up to their own shit and admit when they're wrong? Nobody is going to shit on you for admitting fault
Is this some new thing, or is this still about him sneaking a peek at his sister?
I'm not saying it was right, but the way he was raised - sheltered from learning about these things in a healthy way - his curiosity getting the best of him is not really that shocking.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:41:37 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The fact that his wife continues to have children with him really disturbs me. He molested his sisters... There are no limits for him. Those kids aren't safe.
There was a Law and Order: SVU episode a little while back about a Mormon (or 7th Day Adventist? Something similar) family who visits New York, and they find it the youngest daughter is pregnant. They look at the dad, he's innocent. They look at the teenage brother, who turns out to be innocent but got his slightly younger sister pregnant a few years back.
Turns out it was a priest, but I remember thinking, "Law and Order is always semi-based off of actual events, so what family is this?"
Thanks for the reminder.
Also, that show is fucked up. Fits perfectly with my mind, even though it confuses the hell out of Ice T.
Sanhael ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:48:30 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I hope he gets the help he needs, or develops testicular cancer. One or the other.
Coming from r/all, holy shit is this sub obnoxious to read. Even as a joke, the tilting comments are unbearable. I get that it fits the theme of the sub, but the sub's theme is being infuriating! Why would you want this feature?
Couldawg ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:03:32 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not to burst anyone's bubble, but Josh Duggar didn't actually say this.
Original story here. There was a "report" from InTouch Weekly in mid-July 2016 that Josh would be appearing on his sister's spin-off, "Jill & Jessa: Counting On." The unnamed source for this report purported to know what viewers could expect from Josh' appearance:
โJosh will appear on the next season of his sistersโ series,โ a source told InTouch. โThe plan is for him to address everything heโs done. What he has to say will be ratings gold, and TLC โ and the Duggars โ know it.โ
โJosh will cover everything and he will maintain the family line that god has saved his soul and guided him back to the right path. But one thing you probably wonโt hear is that heโs actually sorry, as he believes that external forces were to blame for his behavior.โ
Other outlets picked up the InTouch story, and honed in on the "no apology" angle:
Patheos: Report: Josh Duggar Wonโt Apologize For Sex Abuse Because Devil Made Him Do It
Raw Story: Josh Duggar wonโt apologize for sex abuse and adultery: โHe believes external forces were to blameโ
Ultimately, Josh failed to appear on the show (I can't imagine why).
Earlier this summer, the Duggars filed a lawsuit against the State of Arkansas and InTouch Weekly. Patheos decided to republish the "no apology" story as if it were hot news. And why not? The story is getting new play, and it offers great ammunition against a slimeball. The only problem? The "no apology" story is completely fake news.
I get it. These days, it feels like everybody is fighting dirty. The end supposedly justifies the means. If you take down a slimeball, it doesn't matter how you do it, right?
I'm not so sure. Defamation laws are still a thing, and guys like Duggar stand to make a lot of money off of someone pushing a fake story. Furthermore, if a case contains a few lies/embellishments here and there, it suggests that the whole story ought to be taken with a grain of salt. In the pursuit of justice against guys like this, that's not really the reaction we want.
This is probably one of my biggest pet peeves about religion: no sense of accountability for actions. God takes all the credit for good stuff in the world because "God gives strength" or "God acts/speaks through people" and anything bad in the world can just be written off by blaming the Devil. No sense of accountability or individual actions at all
ixijimixi ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:16:45 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sooo ppl can slaughter each other an be excused because it was in the name of the Lord?? I love religious nuts who try to justify their actions through religion.
chicoange ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:09:51 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Someone elect this shining example of a human being!! /s
Nah mate, cause remember how it said that God set us all up with that free will. So we can only choose to do what the devil tempts us to do. So really you're just a fucking scumbag, and now you're too much of a coward to own up to it.
deMondo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:16:44 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Any person who goes around claiming there is a god and all that goes with it is indistinguishable from a liar of the worst kind. Someone who (for example) claims their god saved them and deserves praise for it while others who believed them and followed the same God lost their lives or all their things or were even scratched by disaster should be locked away from decent society forever at their own expense or allowed to starve.
He probably just needs a private jet so he can be closer to god when he apologizes, but if he's blaming the devil then we should just put him six feet closer to the accused.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:14:54 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's not mildly infuriating. That's severely infuriating.
zeapups ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:06:16 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I can't believe his wife is still with him, the entire situation is disgusting and the lack of remorse and externally blaming anyone other than himself is nauseating. The entire quiverful movement disturbs me, the notion of trying to procreate as much as possible and creating more minds to follow their cult/give them more of a voice is a problem. Fundamentalism in America is a troubling reality.
KXNG_AC ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:48:07 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs ok. Logic like that dictates someone can beat him to death, because itโs the devils fault
Vaux1916 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:57:12 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"What incentive do you have for leading a good, moral life if you don't believe in God?" - A question I've gotten more than once when people find out I'm an atheist.
Self accountability comes with a high price - dude has to realize that it wasn't the devil working through him but that he was just a wicked human. A lot of egos, even amoral criminals, will distance themselves from concluding that they're bad people.
"The Devil made me do it" is actually legitimately the most evil excuse created by the devil for it attempts to remove all guilt from the evil that was done by placing it on the devil as the reason for it and saying "I am the excuse for your sin". However, there's another who counters this and does the opposite and "removes the sins of the world". Damn, didn't know Bible study was in session today.
This is what pastors would call โSpiritual Warfareโ. I fucking loathed listening to my pastor blame that for all the problems we had on our mission trips, as if there are no idiotic people in the church who donโt know how to do their job.
Off Topic: I just found this /sub/ and you guys have done mildlyinfiriating so damn well with the comment section, I actually had to turn off the text transform in the CSS.
Being remorseful for your crimes is a big thing when they pass sentencing. And since you're a molester, that makes this even better. Rot in jail, asshole.
imac132 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:52:36 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wrong sub this belongs in r/extremelyinfruriatingandthispersondeservestobethrownintogeneralpopulationatsanquinten
89XE10 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:54:51 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well he has a point considering free will is a farce and everything we do is a function of stimulus and genetics.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:58:16 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No personal responsibility
apullin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:01:24 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't have to apologize for that honor killing because a man in the sky told me he is the creator of the universe and said that it correct for me to do it.
why did you feel it necessary to post the pic with Mike Huckabee. I've met Mike Huckabee irl as a teenager and he gave he advice that made me feel important.
Man. According to his Wikipedia page he did not even attend college. So, even though he hasn't attended college, and even amidst these disgusting scandals he was apart of, he was still able to work with a PAC and Mike Huckabee's Presidential campaign.
I was really confused for a good while there because I was imagining an underground train stopping to let on a crowd of small, blind and confused mammals and I was desperately trying to figure out what that had to do with these two men and religion and I figured I'd probably missed some kind of major controversy and awman I'm way bummed out now I was really looking forward to knowing about the devil's mole-station.
Phlink75 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:14:28 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
We need like a gay superhero that dispenses justice for sexual assault victims by overpowering and raping thier attackers, turning them into the little bitches they are.
And I don't have to apologize for molestation because, you know, I don't most people. I guess that's where he and I differ...
R3DT1D3 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:31:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I like how Reddit likes to make fun of the whole "Fake News" thing but will still blindly upvote actual fake news so long as it's someone they dislike.
But, is that a direct quote, or a paraphrased version of something he said? Not that it matters much, I have already seen/ heard enough from this particular piece of shit that it's easy to believe he might really think this way.
It's quite amazing the lengths people are willing to go to defend pieces of shit, especially when they can hide behind religion while they point fingers.
stubble ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:37:36 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So I don't have to apologize for punching this piece of crap on the nose.
Hey, this religious stuff is good..
devolvxr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:38:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
People like this should be erased.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:40:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think he's angling for a spot in GOP
patty-l ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:42:34 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I hope the lord giveth him an ass raping ๐๐๐๐
As a christian, these are the type of people that make the rest of seem like jackasses. Of course itโs his fault, that kind of irresponsibility on leads to bigger and continued problems. Sick.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:13:03 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ahh religion. The good ol books that people idolize which sends messages of love and acceptance, as long as the other person looks like, believes like and speaks like you. To the rest, kill them, rape them, pillage them and repeat. Then spread the word of god and love and peace and donations! Brain washing at its finest.
It's such an archaic value system, outdated and completely lost it's relevance centuries ago. The followers of these cult brain washing societies can't even tell the difference between philosophy and reality - they live, eat, breathe this shit. It's really sad. I really feel bad for these people. They pray to a diety that means nothing, follow words from a book that's not even transcripts of the origin or any origin and translations with infinite meanings.
I will take the religious stoning of hypocrisy but the sheeple now.
Well right, science wasn't as far along at that point, but I do find that philosophical concept interesting.
People wouldn't commit evil acts if there wasn't mental confusion, because any amount of meditation will reveal the natural state of being is "light" so to speak, kindness and understanding. Probably something to that concept.
Having said that, just committing evil acts and saying "oh that's just the devil", well, fair enough, but you damn well better stop it, you can't just keep "kicking it with the devil".
ballen15 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:22:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Throwaway because I don't want someone to figure out my irl identity.
I wish you guys could know, like truly know, what fucking happens in the Duggar family. I know I hold zero credibility because of the whole throwaway thing, but I'm very closely associated with them (as in my parents have had most of them over for dinner on multiple occasions and we have been on the TV show.).
Most of the kids are actually pretty alright, not a fan of a few of the older ones though. Jim-Bob and Michelle are essentially cult leaders, and some of their kids know it and feel they were only conceived to keep the number up.
The kids aren't as sheltered as many people think. The younger ones, sure, but the teenagers and older are all pretty aware of what's going on.
I hope someone rapes him and cuts off his tiny wiener and then says not my fault the devil made me do it.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:38:52 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's almost as bad as "I didn't rape and murder those women! It was a man called John. The man is dead now and in his place is me, a transwoman named Donna. If you're going to send me to jail for what John did, at least send me to a women's prison."
Look, I hate the man. This headline is fucking bullshit though. He never said this. Shit-tier journalists headline jockies do more harm than good by posting this sort of drivel.
Report the news you lazy fucks.
Wurps ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:43:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's not exactly what he said, but if you look at the original it is clearly what he meant. We live in a world where you can offset your responsibility for your actions on a storybook villain.
It's like blaming jafar because you rubbed a dude's lamp.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:39:01 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
As a religious person I can say this is total bs. No itโs not the devils fault. Itโs yours. The devil DID tempt you but you gave in instead of saying no. Therefor it is your fault.
Why have a picture with Huckabee? He's not a molester, not cool to have his picture on an article about this. This photo was probably taken before the allegations came out, not ok to act like it happened afterwards.
Josh Duggar worked for his campaign. I think his father did as well.
[deleted] ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 14:49:33 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He's not a child molester, he just want to take health care away from millions of people. No big deal.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:44:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
fine, you know what it has to do with the comment? that sack of shit has publicly defended defended him. "oh but josh duggar was only a kid, he's a fine stand up christian now." yeah, and he goes to strip clubs and fucks the stripper like all good christians do. sure, the picture was taken a few days before it was made public knowledge that he raped his sisters but the way he has stood up to defend him says to me he would have take a picture with him anyway.
it has to do with op's comment because just because he didn't rape kids doesn't mean he is a good person who deserves defending. i never said the current health care system is perfect but millions of people do in fact rely on the current health care system that is out. and the one that huckabee supports will make people people with pre existing conditions shit out of luck. that's not speculation, thats what the bill says. i'm not christian, but i'm pretty sure his bible doesn't say anywhere in it to save up millions of dollars instead of using it to help the sick and poor. i believe in fact it says the opposite.
tldr: it's perfectly fair to use that picture because huckabee defends josh duggar. and even if he didn't, i would have no sympathy for him.
why-this ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:27:36 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What the fuck does that have to do with OPs comment?
First of all, no, he wants to stop forcing Americans to buy shitty insurance or be fined for it.
Second, fine if you feel that way, but that doesn't change anything.
khoawala ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 15:43:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hmmm give American option to not buy insurance, don't go to doctor, wait until an inch left of their life and show up to the emergency room which causes hospitals to either go bankrupt or start charging the shit ton more for those who can pay..... Then blame immigrants for taking advantage of our healthcare while people with money run to other country for same quality of healthcare with less cost.
Works for me!! Why didn't we do this befo... Oh wait...
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:26:37 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You know, people already wait till too late to go to the hospital. And secondly, ever heard of The Chargemaster? Its a book all american hospitals have to determine how overpriced the items should be. They wouldnt go bankrupt, they would survive.
khoawala ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:51:53 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Many hospitals did close did obamacare and many personal bankruptcies were filed. How do you think the middle class got destroyed?
Since federal law made that hospitals can't turn away patience, that only left you with 2 options: either everyone pays or a few can pay for everyone e else. Of course, the 3rd option would just let those who can't pay die, whatever.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:15:28 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Are you advocating we check for insurance and not treat people if they cant pay?
khoawala ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:21:34 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think you are too young to remember pre-ACA era when the top posts on Reddit everyday was someone's medical bill that get mistaken for a mortgage.
khoawala ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:19:44 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Option 2 would inevitably lead to option 3 after everyone is either bankrupt or hospitals shut down.
Yea, why do you think OP chose a picture with Huckabee for this completely made up quote? Probably to spur some of those "conservatives are evil" comments that were here before me.
No picture of the two. Oh and the "journalist" mentioned Huckabee by claiming he defended Duggar by citing a fake quote that was claimed false by Snopes:
So muslims throw gays off buildings. Plow trucks into crowded events. Blow bombs up all over the place. Are commanded to kill you, the infidel per their holy book.. But this is the logic that bothers you.. Seems to me logic is a word you don't quite understand.
Edit: Like I said, logic, you have none.. And your fake internet points won't change that fact.
no one said anything about muslims here. people are pissed that a child molester is trying to pass off blame because of his religion. take your bait back t_d.
Saved comment
[deleted] ยท 7592 points ยท Posted at 13:12:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
PaperHumanMan ยท 2571 points ยท Posted at 14:35:41 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I have seen that logic before in person. Nothing bad I do is my fault because the devil was really doing it in my body. He was extremely religious too. I don't get it.
[deleted] ยท 1240 points ยท Posted at 14:41:01 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
blumberg49 ยท 730 points ยท Posted at 16:06:12 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, no. It's not their fault, it's still the devil's fault for doing that bad deed, it's the persons fault for not acknowledging that they need the lord to help them resist the devil and his wicked ways.
That's the logic when yelling at others, source - grew up around so many of these kids.
CousinNicho ยท 319 points ยท Posted at 16:38:56 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Similarly, the "I'm not perfect, but I'm forgiven" approach. Most of these people abandoned trying to be Christ-like long ago when they realized that religion hands you your very own get out of jail free card - so long as you're a believer.
SkollFenrirson ยท 123 points ยท Posted at 17:41:02 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But it doesn't work that way. You don't get off scot free just for being a believer.
CousinNicho ยท 156 points ยท Posted at 17:46:37 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You don't have to convince me, it's just an outside observation from a nonbeliever. It can be attributed to any religion, I just see it most with Christians because I live in the US south.
KANG2012 ยท 149 points ยท Posted at 18:06:20 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Christians like those are what led me to question the church and become an athiest.
AllHumanIcing ยท 216 points ยท Posted at 18:59:08 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Catholics like that are what caused me to nail my ninety-five theses to the church door.
_Mephostopheles_ ยท 100 points ยท Posted at 20:19:09 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
/r/unexpectedLuther
ntermation ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 20:23:34 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Disappointed this isn't real. Not really surprised. Just... Oh well.
heck_you_science ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 22:13:29 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Man I was really looking forward to reading that sub
Thighbone_Sid ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:59:30 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Clicking that link crashed my reddit app
Sobsz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:04:18 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Get a new one. I recommend Slide for Reddit.
[deleted] ยท 73 points ยท Posted at 18:37:48 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"Christians" like those give genuine Christians a bad name (I'm not saying Christians are perfect people) . The whole "devil made me do it!" is such a load of bull. People have a free will and that man chose to do that disgusting act and used the devil as a scapegoat. Its just wrong on so many levels.
therinlahhan ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 21:09:54 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lots of Christians don't believe in free will actually. It's called Calvinism.
_Mephostopheles_ ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 20:20:15 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"Genuine Christians." Man, that's a No True Scotsman fallacy. They're still Christians (because they believe in Jesus and all that), they're just idiots as well.
greymalken ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:22:48 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
All I know is: damn Scots, they ruined Scotland!
kamomil ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:59:17 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Christian is any religion like Pentecostal, Roman Catholic, Presbyterian, with Jesus and the old and new testament as the basis for the religion.
However some evangelicals have specific criteria for the term "Christian" and they don't include Catholics (for example) within their definition
Or you can be part of a Christian religion, but not "acting like a Christian" ie not "imitating Christ" in your behavior
_Mephostopheles_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:28:07 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, but in reality, being a Christian simply requires you to believe in God and in Jesus as "your savior" or whatever. The only way someone is a "fake Christian" is by falsely claiming to believe in Jesus, which is something only that person can be aware of.
Michamus ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 19:39:11 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is known as the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. You're no more a true Christian than they are. They have their interpretation and you have yours.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:55:42 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Michamus ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:06:12 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Interesting youโd use the Ten Commandments as an example of โclear cutโ. Do you know there are actually over two hundred commandments, most of which you donโt follow? The ten were simply the first.
Altair1371 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:29:39 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's where part of the Jew/Christian divide is. Christians say there were two laws: the Moral Law and the Ceremonial Law. The Moral Law is summarized in the Ten Commandments, and even further summarized in the New Testament by Jesus: "Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself." The Moral Law gives the absolute morality: these commandments have never been retracted or changed, and (for Christians and Jews) remain as true when they were first given them as they are now.
The Ceremonial Law covers the massive collection of rules that the books of Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. These were given for multiple reasons. First, they wrapped up the Moral Law in additional laws that, if you followed, would ensure you would also follow the Moral Law. After all, if you were instructed to return your neighbor's stray cattle, you wouldn't be stealing them. These laws also provided the Israelites redemption for when they do break the law, detailed in many sacrifices depending on the sin. In addition, many of the laws (no mixed fibers in clothes, keeping to certain feasts, etc.) served to differentiate the Israelites from the rest of the world.
So why do Christians not follow the Ceremonial Law, then (or rather, why do we no longer have to)? First and foremost is the idea that Jesus was sent to fulfill the law and serve as the final and perfect sacrifice to fulfill sin. Under the Ceremonial Law your sins were removed by sacrificing clean animals, such as doves and lambs. However, it was not perfect: if you sinned again, you'd have to come back to the temple next week and do another sacrifice. Because Jesus was perfect (did not sin) and was human, he made the sacrifice complete. Nobody has to sacrifice a bull to clear their sins, they're already cleared.
Second, God's people were no longer restricted to the Jews. Because there was no longer any distinction between Jew and Greek, Man and Woman, Slave and Master, etc., there was no need to keep that people separate.
So yes there is a ton of potential for confusion in the Bible, especially if you do not take the chance to read through the whole context. But at the same time there remains a few key points that, "true" Christians would argue, are the essentials that must be followed.
Michamus ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:28:26 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not sure how this disputes what I'm saying.
Altair1371 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:34:36 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It doesn't dispute the fact that there are hundreds of rules in the Old Testament, but it disputes the context and the implication. Correct me if I'm wrong, but your intent on mentioning that was to show that "following the Bible" is an action that's open to opinion, as opposed to there being a specific litmus test that a Christian must follow to be considered a Christian. My point was to ratify yours, then. If you follow the Moral and Ceremonial Law, you're a Jew. If you follow the Moral Law but not the Ceremonial Law, you're a christian.
Michamus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:36:40 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes. Your response that there's a dispute among Biblical adherents about following the Bible confirmed my statement.
Altair1371 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:39:49 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Except the Bible isn't considered truth by Jews. They only follow the Torah (the first five books) as truth, and other Old Testament books for psalms and history. They do not accept Jesus as the savior, they do not consider the laws fulfilled, so they continue under what Christians call "the Old Law" while they wait for the Messiah. Therefore, they are not Christians, but Jews.
Michamus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:40:54 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Which is irrelevant, given the context is about the Torah.
Altair1371 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:43:12 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It is relevant. The context by which the Jews subside is wholly within the Torah. Christianity includes Jesus's teachings which overrode a lot of what the Torah taught (Would you not save your trapped donkey on the Sabbath? Render unto Caesar, etc.). The Christian context requires the entirety of the Bible. Otherwise, the savior did not come and all Christians should still be following the Ceremonial Law.
Michamus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:48:16 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Right and we're talking about the Torah. Discussing differing interpretations between Jewish and Christian authors and leaders only further establishes my point
Altair1371 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:53:55 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Torah consists of five books: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Number, and Deuteronomy. The Bible contains all that and more. Christians believe that Jesus Christ, the savior of the world, was born, lived without sin, was crucified and resurrected. He and, as Christians believed, God-inspired apostles taught that the Ceremonial Laws did not need to be followed: circumcision was no longer the mark of a saved Christian. All that context is ignored by the Jewish faith, who deny that the following happened or should be considered.
What you're saying is like if I said that Physicists are inconsistent because Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein derived different theories of the world. The truth is the Einstein revised what Newton had done, and added onto his work with more context (that is, evidence).
Michamus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:59:54 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The main difference being that scientific discovery is objective, whereas religious texts are anything but. Christianity isn't a new development in truth. It's a change in interpretation.
Altair1371 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:10:36 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's how you view it, not a person who considers the Bible to be truth.
Michamus ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 23:13:35 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Your opinion doesn't change the subjective nature of the Bible. There's no demonstrable truth in the Bible.
IcarusBen ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:47:00 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
/u/Altair1371 , as far as I can tell, is making his statements from the viewpoint of somebody who views the Bible as truth, not making a statement as to the actual validity of the text. His metaphor is a little iffy, but it works on a basic level.
Michamus ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:21:39 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This relies heavily on opinion being equal to evidence, which is a pretty unworkable assertion. Any time anything in the Bible that can be tested has been tested, the Bible fails. We know the Earth isn't flat, that God doesn't control the weather, that there's not a dome over the Earth, prayer doesn't work (and according to studies can actually make things worse), etc. Asserting the Bible has any objective truth to it is not only unfounded but contrary to everything we actually know.
IcarusBen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:44:03 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
facepalm.
That is the opposite of what I said. I explicitly said it didn't make a statement on the Bible's validity. He is not asserting the Bible has truth to it, he's making his statements from the point of view of somebody who believes it's truth.
Michamus ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:13:33 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And Iโm responding to that belief.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:39:20 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Michamus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:27:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's certainly one interpretation.
coltninja ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:57:08 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Some would say these views are heretical. Everything is open to interpretation in my book, but not so for every version of Christianity. It's all made up anyways.
Stonedbtw ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:53:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Same here, but agnostic. The hypocrisy was just too much for me to handle.
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 18:58:02 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Unfortunately this is all too common. People use Christians (other people) as a basis for what it means to live for Christ. What it REALLY means is to have unconditional love for EVERYONE. Unfortunately we are all broken humans and will ALWAYS let you down. Donโt let people be your judge of Christ, let Christ be the judge! God is nothing but love! But humans will always fail. Always. No matter how hard we try we will never live up to the impossibly high standard of living like Christ.
bobbyblack ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:16:31 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nothing but love? Ever read a book called the bible? That Zod chick is a smite-happy bastard. Jealous and quick to trigger, and will drown a world and fuck a dude up with any provocation, then throw a fucker's immortal s oul into an eternal fire bath for all of eternity, no take-backs, and walk off a whistling like no big deal...Nothing but love? Shit...look what he did to Satan for just getting a bit miffed about giving the monkeys souls...
wusticality ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:50:14 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You donโt get the light without the dark, theyโre both necessary parts of the whole.
canipaybycheck ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:26:23 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So brave to post about that here
scrubzork ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:05:54 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qegPkqs6rFw
youtubefactsbot ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:06:10 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
bot info
personacarsona ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:00:42 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Good bot
microwaveburritos ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:18:55 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Good bot
NotSoPersonalJesus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:01:39 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Trying to find a good place to jump in here...
If you believe the devil has control over your body, then you must banish him instead of blame him. It is you who let the evil remain. The devil cannot be completely at fault for your lack of spirit.
O_Apples ยท 33 points ยท Posted at 18:16:18 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's the funny part. Being a Christian should be about be changed to being Christ like. People on the other hand use Christianity as justification for them being an asshole.
I don't care what anyone thinks because only God can judge me.
SkollFenrirson ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 18:33:42 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not to mention one of the principal tenets.
Do to others as you would have them do unto you.
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 19:05:30 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I prefer God's lost Commandment #11 : "Do thy best to not be a cunt"
I hear it was lost in the King James translation but is the basic point to the original doctrine . True Christians fought lions in the arena and talked while burning bush . They were the worlds first hippie bros.
Jesus , he wasn't walking on water , he was surfing . The dude just wants you to shred and not be a douche , amen.
SkollFenrirson ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:43:31 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm ok with this interpretation.
huffinbutthash ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:54:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
amen was really "ayyy, man"
Littlebigreddit50 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:32:10 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
sounds like the 80s version of god. so long as you dont be a cunt, you may shred the waters of heaven and not burn in that asshole's hell
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:33:57 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I bet hell has better waves though.
Littlebigreddit50 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:07:54 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
but wouldnt that fuck up your board though?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:09:25 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Waves? Naw I think that's what boards were designed for
Littlebigreddit50 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:03:38 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
what kind of waves do you think hell has if the saying is "the fiery pits of hell". oh well. FUCK IT IM GOING IN WOODEN
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:14:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well I actually believe hell is filled with water I mean the whole idea of Hell in the Bible is written in a very creative hard translate language from the perspective of potential Christians. Really when I think about it what would you say about your enemies house probably not good things I don't think he'll is quite the image that has been painted for us and I haven't had time to read the Satanic Bible myself to find out what they say I'm betting they paint their own image of it but truthfully probably not a great place but fire lakes and all that old imagery. I don't believe in that. If hell is supposed to be misery I think it would just be more ironic for the place but they would be water but it would just be really salty or something.
Littlebigreddit50 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:15:35 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ok. 100 percent Salty water would make sense
Ash_Tuck_ums ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:04:01 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The word of the lort
O_Apples ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:56:49 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Funny thing about Jesus is that when he wasn't teaching, you can just replace his dialogue with other people with, "dude, seriously?"
jensenson ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:52:31 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Burning bush and tripping balls on acid, if Revelation is any indication.
wusticality ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:51:01 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
We are all God. :)
[deleted] ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 18:06:57 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Saiing ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 19:16:42 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
At no point does Jesus say anything about penance. Repentance (being sorry and asking for forgiveness) sure, but there is no stipulation that you have to do some special act in order to gain God's forgiveness. It's primarily a Catholic creation and doesn't even appear in many commonly used versions of the Bible.
All you need to do is repent and be truly sorry and you can enter the kingdom of heaven. Jesus couldn't have been more clear about that.
(not a religious person myself, but I come from a very religious background and have read the Bible several times cover to cover)
winteriscomingforme ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:54:14 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, so rapists, murderes, child molesters all get to go to heaven if they repent and are truly sorry? I find that repugnant. Ill pass on any heaven that allows such things.
Saiing ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:15:43 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
According to the gospels, yes, that's correct.
winteriscomingforme ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:22:38 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thats fucked up. So someone like the pope could be hanging out with pedophiles in heaven? LOL its so ridiculous!
Saiing ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:27:34 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If heaven exists then presumably, yes.
Osageandrot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:07:08 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not really,
Most churches recognize things like pedophilia and a propensity to rape to be defects in the human condition caused by the presence of sin. In heaven you are given a new body which is unaffected by sin, and the sinful parts ablated and left behind/destroyed.
Terza_Rima ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:07:35 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, what more do you want from them?
CousinNicho ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:31:50 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Which is why penance is such a heavy-handed theme in Catholicism.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:32:30 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Under certain (rare and outlying) interpretations, yes you do. I've heard sola fide invoked in that context.
slothen2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:23:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's not rare. I think that's most protestant denominations.
Michamus ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:37:28 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lots of Christians seem to think so. In fact, most Christians I know view Christ's atonement as for all sins, regardless whether you repent. They view believing as recognizing Christ's sacrifice, which is necessary for grace to occur.
This whole position seemed pretty ridiculous to me and I started to doubt my recollection. So, I decided to google it. Here's the first result on google:
https://hischarisisenough.wordpress.com/2013/06/27/does-the-fact-that-your-sins-are-take-away-once-and-for-all-makes-the-blood-irrelevant/
SkollFenrirson ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:44:15 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Jesus H. Christ...
frontyfront ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:30:18 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sure you can! Just believe
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:45:58 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
SkollFenrirson ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:57:18 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I can only talk from a Catholic perspective, but the only way you're getting forgiveness is through repentance, and that doesn't mean just saying you're sorry. Truly understanding, accepting your wrongs and working to make amends.
Believing isn't enough.
TsuperCell ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:23:10 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
As far as I've learned this is unique to catholic teachings and it's of paramount importance to prevent this exact type of "logic".
inthyface ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:46:10 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, but you do get to go to heaven forever.
SkollFenrirson ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:06:25 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Again. That's not how it works.
duck-duck--grayduck ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:53:06 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Other denominations are different than Catholicism. I know lots of evangelicals who have that belief, that Jesus paid for all their sins and all you have to do is believe. Same people often then tell the gays they're going to hell, so who the fuck knows how they reconcile that hypocrisy.
scyth3s ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:01:36 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You do though in their religion
Mint-Chip ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:58:30 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Careful I think statements like that contributed to the 200 years of war after the Protestant reformation.
puppyroosters ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:56:21 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You get off scot free if you ask for forgiveness.
Eddol ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:31:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I like to see it as a children's sports event. Everyone gets the same prize, no matter their accomplishments, though the kids will still give their best effort in the competition. That's how it's supposed to be anyway. Seems like everyone didn't quite get it.
Yaya46 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:57:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How about " God knows my heart" So God knows you are a fucktard ? Got it!
Brock_Samsonite ยท 45 points ยท Posted at 16:33:14 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm taking religious studies and I get what you're saying. It's a mandatory class but it's actually interesting because at first I'd scoff and be like "doesn't work like that idiot." But religious studies for all religions (not just Christianity) gives you a broad idea of the "world" these people are. Sacred ultimately means real, what is real. God is real, this place is real, these books are real. It helps things like not having repeats of Waco.
Tsulaa ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 17:31:53 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think Comparative Religion courses should start to be a part of our education system's curriculums by 3rd grade. I think it frightens the religious "normies" too much to happen any time soon, tho.
Rottimer ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 17:45:54 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I can see the headlines now. "Liberal politician wants Sharia taught in classroom."
wallpaperwallflower ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:52:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I have seen that reaction in that exact circumstance within the past 5 years, via the news
Tsulaa ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:00:31 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
lol. Sadly enough, you're probably right!
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:42:58 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think if you taught kids about all the religions of the world you'd end up with more atheists and religion would become less and less relevant. I think more and more kids would realize that the only reason they believe their particular religion is because they were born into it.
Not that I think it should be taught in the first place. I think kids should be learning practical things they actually need to know. For example, health. I never had a health class in 3rd grade, just little tidbits about germs and shit. We have a lot of medical knowledge in our modern society; why are we still teaching kids about religions and social studies and other stupid shit?
Tsulaa ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:57:12 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was taught both Health and Comparative Religion during 7th & 8th grades in public school. Health was part of the PE curriculum, & Comp Religion was part of Social Studies; however, it was limited to the "Big Five" (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, & Buddhism). I wasn't being indoctrinated to subscribe to any of them. I had long questioned the one into which I had been born, anyways. It didn't make me an atheist (that came later), but I do recall realizing religion was all just so arbitrary & ridiculous & none of them were worth killing for. How is that a bad thing for kids to learn in school?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:21:16 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think it's a bad thing for kids to learn. Religion is an interesting subject and you can't fully understand history without learning about religion. Don't get me wrong. I just don't think 3rd graders need to learn about it, nor anyone for that matter. It's not essential knowledge, like health, science, and mathematics. I had "health" lessons too but they were extremely basic.
duck-duck--grayduck ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:59:30 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Heh. I went to an evangelical college (only local option for a bachelor's) that required a couple religious classes. One of them was allegedly a comparative religions class, but the textbook was a handbook on how to proselytize to people from various religions. It was the stupidest shit.
starrysurprise ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:09:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
We were taught all about Islam and Judaism in my Catholic school, quite fairly too, I was surprised it went so well!
ViDious ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:47:12 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You mean that they aren't in America? Thats quite shocking to me, here in the Netherlands I learned about world religions in primary school. Its so important in the world of today.
Tsulaa ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:03:15 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was, but it was back in the 80s during 7th & 8th grades in public school.
SnekMark ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 18:04:33 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Whats the point of teaching kids tales of god(s)? Those who want can learn about it privately.
PM_ME_YOUR_CUCK ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:16:54 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because it is an unavoidable aspect our our reality and global society, and they should be prepared for it as such.
SnekMark ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 18:23:23 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
unavoidable? fuck outta here
PM_ME_YOUR_CUCK ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:10:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hey everybody, check out this guy who lives in an atheistic bubble where no religious people ever cross his path in life and is never forced to have to consider any beliefs but his own.
TsuperCell ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:26:35 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes. Fuck outta here
WagglyFurball ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:17:04 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's not about teaching tales of god it's about learning about different cultures.
Tsulaa ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:59:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
(copied from my reply to MrFitzhugh) I was taught ...Comparative Religion during 7th & 8th grades in public school...[as] part of Social Studies; however, it was limited to the "Big Five" (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, & Buddhism). I wasn't being indoctrinated to subscribe to any of them. I had long questioned the one into which I had been born, anyways. It didn't make me an atheist (that came later), but I do recall realizing religion was all just so arbitrary & ridiculous & none of them were worth killing for. How is that a bad thing for kids to learn?
[deleted] ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 16:55:28 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Vigilante17 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:14:28 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My favorite class in college was ballroom dance.
ArdQuadberry ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 16:54:09 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sacred is often defined as that which is not profane (ordinary, everyday). The sacred contains the qualities of being: immutable, all encompassing, permanent, and usually accessible through ritual.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:36:09 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Etymology fun fact: Profane derives from a latin term for "not allowed in the temple" or literally "in front of the temple." pro + fanus "temple". Source
ArdQuadberry ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:04:00 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
As both a religions and words nerd, that indeed was a super fun fact!! Awesome, thank you!
Brock_Samsonite ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:55:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks. First two weeks of class so it's still new to me. I like it though, new viewpoints.
ArdQuadberry ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:18:02 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Glad you're liking it! If you're curious for some further reading check out Mircea Eliade "The Sacred and the Profane" and Rudolf Von Otto's writings on the concept of the numen. Really puts the larger religious experience of humans in perspective.
ShinyBrain ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:33:34 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And if you really want to work hard, some Voegelin.
toxictoy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:50:02 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I read the Sacred and the Profane in college many years ago. Hand it out to friends and family for discussion. Honestly one of the best works ever to understand the frameworks of religion whether you are secular or religious.
So-Called_Lunatic ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:30:29 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
World religions should be a mandatory class. Then maybe we would understand each other a bit better, instead if just killing each other.
AccidentallyPerfect ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:59:02 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Cognitive dissonance...inability to see ones self as anything but devout and holy and perfect means there is no way THEY would actually do something like that...therefore it has to be the devil.
Reality is the devil is a cool ass motherfucker who rides a motorcycle and parties around the world (source:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHlwGJwCHwY) and the real evil is them.
Rizzpooch ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:40:49 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The devil made me not acknowledge the devil making me do evil...
TheOneHusker ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:59:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's especially amusing/infuriating when a person like that is part of a religion that has confession, or an appropriate analogue.
Cause, you know, that's totally not a form of apologizing. The only difference totally isn't just that it's specifically for your deity(s) instead of people, right? Or does that mean it's an exception?
xltchiva ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:23:01 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But what about the Rasta Devil?
Caprious ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:24:10 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But the Devil is so much more fun to hang out with.
God wants you to sit at home or be in Church and do everything in your power to not offend him.
Lucifer is just like "Yea man! Have a good time!"
I'm clearly not religious.
AtomicSamuraiCyborg ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:06:03 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But you follow the lord and the devil made you a child molester, so god can't or won't stop that?
Let_me_creep_on_this ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:06:50 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sorry judge .. the devil made me do it.
Oh well, you are free to go
swr3212 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:05:09 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not just that, but with that rationale, doing good is God possessing you. Why do you even exist then if all your actions are decided by omniscient beings.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:37:47 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think thats what this was intended to mean, but is easily taken out of context.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:38:32 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Actually it's God's fault, considering he designed the universe with the molestation included. He essentially green-lit everything that has ever happened, considering he created the universe and human beings and human nature and knew their every act and decided to leave that configuration as-is. This molestation therefore was a design decision God made.
vincentinthefields ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:29:30 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
True the devil's Bible literally says no sexual advancement without consent.
JohnBoyAndBilly ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:13:42 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well, actually that's what Aristotle proposed - that no man is evil because all evil acts are simply confusion.
Skipachu ยท 35 points ยท Posted at 14:54:08 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you know you are possessed by a demon (or even the Devil himself) who is using your body to do evil deeds then you should be seeking an exorcism. Just letting the bad things happen when you're the only one who can prevent them is as bad as doing them yourself.
tang81 ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 15:07:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But that is the point of the excuse. That they didn't have control of their body at the time so they can't be held responsible. They don't need the exorcism now. The devil (conveniently) was only there for the bad part.
aka-dit ยท 54 points ยท Posted at 15:23:03 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The devil has hooves and horns, just like a goat. Specifically a scapegoat.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:20:44 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
wasn't Satan an angel?
Pancakesandvodka ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:04:41 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not just an angel, but the best of all, way above man and possibly close to the Captin himself-hence, the Fall.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:51:49 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Is this a meme or something? Because I've never seen any evidence of this... or that Satan is any one person, for that matter.
arewethereyetmom ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:17:48 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not a meme. Depends on what you mean by "evidence" but mostly folks are referring to the story in Paradise Lost.
Pancakesandvodka ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:09:29 on September 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's a Christian thing, based on earlier beliefs from Babylonians and others. Books of Isaiah and Enoch introduce him as an angel and people kinda blur/combine satan, lucifer, and the devil.
ThePorcupineWizard ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:51:51 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes and no. In the Bible, yeah. According to some people that claim to follow it, nope. Mostly because they never read it and just equated evil with couldn't ever have been good.
el_mundo_frio ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:11:05 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
AFAIK this is christian tradition and not explicit in the bible. That the serpent in Genesis, the fallen angel of revelation and the accuser in the book of job are to be read as the same being is not a given, it's Christian exegesis from a later date.
EDIT: but your general point still stands in Christianity as a religion, it's just not explicit "in the bible". No wonder, seeing as it's a patchwork of texts from probably hundreds of authors and editors of different time periods.
TalkOfSexualPleasure ยท 133 points ยท Posted at 14:40:20 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well the devil is the "embodiment" of evil. So what these people are really saying is it's the evil inside them that made them do it, they think they're absolving themselves from the blame, but all they're telling you is that in the scope of their religion and what they believe they are the evil one, and don't even realize it.
GreatestGnarEver ยท 111 points ยท Posted at 15:27:00 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But Satan isn't even the embodiment of evil. Satan comes from Ha Satan AKA the accuser(he accuses God). What happened to the wickedness of man? Jesus wouldn't have had to die if mankind wasn't responsible for their sins. The Bible goes into lengths about how bad humans are. There is so much wrong with this dude's thought process.
EDIT: A lot of people brought up that Ha Satan accused man to God, which is correct. Also that there are differences between Lucifer and Satan(and Beelzebub and Devil). Lucifer was a part of Canaanite mythology, and Lucifer means "the morning star." It seems like KJV just used Lucifer synonymously with devil and satan which popularized it. According to mainstream Christianity, the Devil is a fallen angel who is a tempter and a deceiver. According to the wikipedia article, Calvin is behind this mainstream idea while Luther said that the devil is a personal sin(though I couldn't find any supporting evidence). I still don't like how people try to get off easy by placing the blame on Satan.
TalkOfSexualPleasure ยท 45 points ยท Posted at 15:28:11 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hey man I'm just trying to hate on some people I don't agree with, what are you doing bringing all this logic in here and humanizing them? Just kidding obviously, but I'm no expert on Christianity by any means, the only understanding I really have of it is what I was taught growing up in a religious family. So even then the little understanding I have is filtered through the perspective of whoever taught it to me when I was young so you'll have to forgive me if I over reached.
GreatestGnarEver ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 15:48:08 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh I'm not mad at you. You're right when you say this is how it's taught, like the devil is coming into our lives and ruining us instead of taking full responsibility for our own actions. It just really sucks that people hold onto that idea.
z500 ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 16:05:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought the whole point of Satan was that he tempts you to sin to try and take you to hell with him, but if you sin it's still on you.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:46:08 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you sin it's on God considering he designed your past, present, and future.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:10:55 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Except we have free will. He didn't design our past, present, and future, he's just aware of what will happen. He doesn't exist in one single time, but all times at once. The thing is, for him to know the future, he has to let it happen. If he stopped every tragedy, the future events would never take place, effectively stripping us of free will. He doesn't influence or affect our timeline. It all started in the Garden of Eden with the apple. He gave man the choice. Eternity of ignorant bliss or a life of hardships with the benefit of knowledge and understanding.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:27:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Free will is impossible under such a god. If he didn't design our past, present, and future, then he is not god. Not sure where you're getting at there.
No, he knows the end result of every design decision whether it occurs or not. He's omniscient.
You don't have free will. He already set everything in motion knowing what would happen. Every decision you make is a design decision God decided to include in his configuration of the universe. To say otherwise is to deny that god is all-powerful, all-knowing, and that he created the universe.
No, it started when God created the universe. He did so knowing everything that would happen. He designed Eve, and the apple, and the serpent, and everything else, knowing the result. He therefore engineered the entire situation including Eve's decision.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:00:19 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You aren't even addressing my points. You're just misinterpreting them or getting them wrong completely. You said if he didn't design our futures for us he isn't God. What do you base that claim on? You're making a lot of statements and assumptions based on nothing. It seems like you're disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. Even at the last point, you tried pointing to the start of creation when we were discussing man's free will, which did start at the apple. You're either purposefully missing the point to avoid conceding the argument or you're just unaware of what you're saying.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:31:11 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yep. He designed everything in the universe. Stop narrating what you think I'm doing and make a real point.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:15:30 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:20:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes he was aware. But intervening would change the outcome. You question God's motives yet have little to no knowledge of the Bible. His intentions are to give us free will and decide our own lives. He hopes that we are faithful to him. If he were to control every action, free will wouldn't exist, and life would be pointless. You're trying way too hard to understand a being who transcends all aspects of existence. Think about the complexity of a being like that. No matter how hard you try, there is no chance of anyone with a limited human mind understanding him.
spamyak ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 23:24:03 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You're misunderstanding my point. It is impossible for an all-knowing being to create the universe without intervening in its outcome, as the very act of creating the universe defines its outcome. To say that God did nothing to change the outcome of the universe is to say that God had no hand in designing the universe. Even if God chose a random selection of parameters for the universe, he created its current outcome with his decision to use the random output while being fully aware of the end results. Intentions are irrelevant. And saying "God is incomprehensible" is a non-argument: ridiculous handwaving that prevents a logical argument about God from occurring about the subject of God simply because you assert that logic does not apply.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:09:50 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:21:57 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's logically sound though, is it not? I understand that I'm not the first to say it but there's really no good argument against it.
digbluefire ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 15:51:32 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I like seeing the tilt of this subreddit. Anyways what religion is he?
SecondTalon ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 16:13:30 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Duggar guy? His parents are in the Quiverfull Movement (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiverfull) and I don't believe he's strayed from it, last I knew. Some of his siblings have.
WikiTextBot ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 16:13:34 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Quiverfull
Quiverfull is a movement among some conservative Christian couples, chiefly in the United States, but there are some adherents in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and elsewhere. The movement sees children as a blessing from God and it encourages procreation, abstaining from all forms of birth control (including natural family planning) and sterilization. Adherents are known as quiver full, full quiver, quiverfull-minded, or simply QF Christians. Some have referred to the Quiverfull position as Providentialism, while other sources have simply referred to it as a manifestation of natalism.
[ PM | Exclude me | Exclude from subreddit | FAQ / Information | Source ] Downvote to remove | v0.27
EspressoTheory ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 16:19:00 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
As a Christian, I would like to add that groups like the Quiverfull movement are not representative of all or even most of us. Honestly, it makes me uncomfortable watching the Duggars when they use Christian ideas to justify antiqued and sexist concepts such as forbidding women from wearing pants or holding a job.
MattcVI ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:35:47 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
As an ex-Christian, I would like to say that while groups like that don't represent Christians in most of their beliefs, the "devil made me do it" mentality and beliefs about traditional men and women's roles aren't at all unique to that sect and are not exactly uncommon
EspressoTheory ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:47:24 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Unfortunately also true, although at least in my city I donโt hear much of the traditional gender roles.
duck-duck--grayduck ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:11:50 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I grew up Lutheran. My husband grew up nondenominational weirdo evangelical. We decided to get married in a Lutheran church back in Minnesota, which required premarital counseling with a pastor, but since we live in California, we had to make arrangements to do it at a local Lutheran church. This is an extremely conservative area, but I went in expecting typical Lutheranism. Ha. The pastor kinda lost me when he got to the part about wives having to submit to their husbands. He's all, "all I really mean by that, is like, maybe if you have a situation where the two of you disagree and can't come to a decision, you allow him to be the man, and you do what he wants." Oh fuck no.
Badargel ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:11:05 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs sad that you have to point out the difference between the two given that there are so many โCrazy Christianโ stories nowadays.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:47:32 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Christianity itself is antiquated and sexist. I'm sure I don't have to tell you that your modernized version of Christianity isn't any more or less legitimate than fundamentalism. Of course it's good that you concentrate on the good and not the bad, but that doesn't make you right it just makes you a better person than them.
orange_fuckin_peel ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:04:50 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
can we get a full 180?
Kit- ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:15:39 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Do a barrel roll
Excalibitar ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 16:28:02 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm gonna be the guy who says "aileron roll", but only because i want to make this baby go all the way.
aedroogo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:01:17 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Great. You guys just spilled my beer.
HEY GRAB THAT--!!! Shit. My grandmother gave me that gravy boat.
NotTheVacuum ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:19:14 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Christian, but thatโs a broad category. Their church is Independent Baptist IIRC, but they are also strict adherents to โQuiverfullโ teachings.
Amanda_B_Rekkonwith ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:52:49 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Are you not mildly infuriated?!
https://s.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims3/GLOB/crop/1692x897+107+214/resize/660x350!/format/jpg/quality/85/https://s.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/midas/e238a44f4b2b3c4d4202d987a6c81211/204211565/gladiator-movie-russell-crowe.jpg
servohahn ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:30:39 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So you have about the same grasp of it as the average Christian. Don't worry.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:49:31 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's filtered through someone's perspective regardless. Remember the translation of the entire thing was put in the hands of a handful of people at one point, not to mention the stories themselves are based on legends passed down through word-of-mouth for generations. You can't pass one sentence through a crowded room without mangling it; you really think storytellers are giving you the genuine account?
bunker_man ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:49:56 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ha satan doesn't accuse god, he accuses humans to god.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:45:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Uh, Jesus didn't have to die at all. God is omnipotent. He could just snap his fingers and absolve mankind of all wrongdoing, which is his fault in the first place considering he designed the past, present, and future of every speck of matter in the universe and is responsible for everything that transpires in his universe. Jesus' entire existence is nothing but theatrics.
alibob63 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:33:30 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Or adversary.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:45:56 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A great question was once posed, "How do you know that the Devil is the evil one and God the good one?". A very simple, but thought provoking question.
PM_ME_YOUR_CUCK ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:21:28 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Satan does not accuse God. Satan accuses man, and for much of Judaism was essentially the "prosecutor" of God's kingdom. Look at the story of Job. God and Satan are obviously on speaking terms, and he is not a pitchfork and red devil tail kind of being in that story. He is like a prosecutor going to the judge wanting to put an innocent man on trial to see if he can trip him up.
Coopersma ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:22:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Serious question about the Bible- Some take the Bible as the literal word of God, but the original texts were translated by the Catholic Church into Latin. The Church made a few changes to suit their purpose, left out some of the books they didnโt like, then presented it as Gospel. Along comes King James. He translates the Bible into English, changes a few things to suit himself and presented it as Gospel.
How can anything in the Bible be taken as the word of God after so many imperfect humans got a hold of it?
GreatestGnarEver ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:17:26 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Bible translations are the result of lots of research around the earliest manuscripts that can be found. KJV was very impressive for its time, but it was made 400 years ago. Since then the English language has changed and early texts have been found. From what I understand, ESV and NIV are both really good modern translations. Study Bibles include context to certain words, phrases, or events. Translations also vary between thought by thought and word for word, so comparing and contrasting Bibles will give you the best idea for what the text meant. Main ideas or thoughts are pretty consistent across good translations. It all comes down to study.
el_mundo_frio ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:45:30 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A Christian (I'm not) would probably answer any changes have been overseen or divinely inspired by the Holy Ghost. God wouldn't allow the word to be corrupted, just adjusted, clarified, etc. push the issue further and you'll probably end up with a "mysterious ways"-reply, I'm guessing.
SecondTalon ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:11:11 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well, yeah, but that's Satan. We're talking about The Devil, who is the embodiment of Evil.
We're also not talking about that completely distinct third entity, Lucifer, who is just some shitty King and not an angel.
All of which is distinct from The Fall as that hasn't happened yet, just something that will happen in the future.
People are bad at knowing their own religion.
Harry_Potthead ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:57:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What? No. The Devil and Satan are the same person. There is some debate over whether Lucifer was originally a different entity, but he has been considered the same for thousands of years.
The Fall also happened before the creation of the world. What is this bullshit you're saying?
SecondTalon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:08:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Revelation 12. Go read it. The war in heaven and the casting out of Satan doesn't happen until the apocalypse is starting up.
So unless you're arguing we're in the post apocalypse....
Harry_Potthead ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:16:08 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The chronology of Revelations is not linear. There are a lot of events that are described as happening at the same time that had already happened or had not happened yet. It's confusing, but the it makes more sense when you consider that Revelations is not to be read the same as the other books. It is not a retelling, it's a vision that is supposed to convey a variety of different things.
This confusion allows a lot of interpretation. Some people see the War in Heaven as one of the events of the end of the world. Some see it as a retelling of the original fall. Again, the chronology is not clear, as right before it it tells about the Birth of Christ.
Regardless, there are other references to Satan being a fallen angel, both in the OT and the NT. So no matter when the War in Heaven is supposed to happen, Satan has already fallen.
Pukernator ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:28:10 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wait what? Lucifer is not the devil? And The Fall refers to Genesis, right? How hs that not occured yet?
SecondTalon ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:49:10 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The only mention of Lucifer in the Bible is Isaiah 14:12. The context of Isaiah 14 makes it clear it's talking about a specific King, not an Angel.
Revelations 12 (you know, the part of the Bible talking about the future) is where The Devil leads a war in heaven and is later cast out.
Not in the past.
Thesaurii ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:49:20 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The serpent in the garden isn't the devil either, he was just some dick snake. Lucifer isn't the lord of hell or a fallen angel, he is a dead king, who sufferns in hell ust like that douche snake from above. Satan chills with God up in heaven, he is a good bro.
The Devil being an oppositional force that is the embodiment of evil isn't even really reinforced by the bible itself, but christian mythos says that the snake is in fact the devil, and is a being of evil that wars with god.
Even though the concept of a being who can in any way battle or even bother god is ridiculous, considering he is all-knowing and all-powerful.
All of the Christian myths of The Devil, Lord of Hell, father of lies, old scratch, Lucifer, all that bullshit comes from revelations, describing the fallen angels - which tells of a future event (well really, its poetry, but if you believe in Revelations as a true prophecy thats what it is), not a past one - and a bunch of christian writings like Dante's Inferno.
Fun fact, Islam identifies a devil too. The devil is everyone who opposes Allah, because the only people who could posisble be anti-god are beings made of evil.
FireHazard11 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 16:11:44 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No. I've seen this as well, and he literally thinks that every good thought in his head is put there by his god and that every bad thought is put there by the devil. He didn't take any personal responsibility for his thoughts and actions, he just saw himself as a passenger.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:50:57 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He's right in a way, at least the first part. Under an all-knowing all-powerful sole designer of the universe, every thought in your head was technically placed there by God be it good or bad.
Lordidude ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:12:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wow what a perfectly logical comment. I hope I'll remember to gild you when I'm sober again.
Lordidude ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:12:37 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
!remindme 69 hours
max225 ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 15:39:10 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did he try drinking some pepto? Sometimes I feel like an evil spirit is festering in my innards and slowly taking control of my faculties but its usually just indigestion.
dagerdev ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 15:04:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Slap them really hard. When they get mad, just say "It was the devil. It's not my fault"
c3h8pro ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 15:35:12 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Castrate him then say "beat ya Devil!"
[deleted] ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 16:12:23 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:54:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's a very obvious problem with that in that God is the sole designer of the universe, and he knows all and can do all, meaning the past, present, and future of every speck of matter in the universe is a design decision made by God. In order for you to be responsible for your misdeeds, God must either not have known you were going to do them when he created you and your nature (which would mean he isn't omniscient), not be able to stop you (which would mean he isn't all-powerful,) or not have been the one to design you (which would mean he isn't the only god.)
Neveya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:24:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But what about free will? Maybe there is a degree of free will involved in God's plan. Lets imagine you make the universe and see how things will unfold but you want some beings to have some degree of choice. There could be multiple, almost infinite, threads of timelines based on choices that the universe could go down that would all eventually lead back down to the same plan or maybe you know what choice someone is going to make and how much you have to poke them to make the right choice. It would still be arguable how much choice you have but I don't think it is something we can fully understand.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:33:58 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Free will can't exist under such a god for the reasons I've delineated. It would require a degree of imperfection the Judeo-Christian god purportedly does not have.
panella_monster ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:57:30 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Whenever I start thinking about this I remember what the robot elders told bender when he was lamenting about not having free will. "Our decisions do matter. The fact that they're predetermined makes them no less important."
Silence!!!
Neveya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:04:49 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sorry I didn't have time to respond properly I was talking to a friend, I thought you might mention this. This is arguable I think and ultimately I don't think either of us can say with certainty that free will can or cannot exist under such circumstances. If you have created a universe where choice can effect circumstance and you can see how everything will pan out then yes it seems free will would not exist. But if you were to allow a being choice to say turn left or right, and you knew what choice they were going to make and did nothing to intervene, couldn't that be classed as free will? For there to be an overall plan to the universe I can see how it could be arguable if there is free will, but why can't that plan incorporate every possible choice that could be theoretically made?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:29:38 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
God is also the designer though. He isn't an independent observer. So it's his design that you turn left or right.
Neveya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:59:45 on October 10, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why does that make the choice any different?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:23:30 on October 16, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because the choices you make are part of a configuration God gave the green light when he designed the universe. They are design decisions made by God. He designed your past, present, and future, and that of everything in existence. So you have no choice because you had no creative input in the design of your life. You are a toy in God's sandbox.
Neveya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:21:29 on October 20, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think that makes a difference to the impact of a choice though, but I understand that you don't like this possible world view. Whether a choice is made by God or not, if you choose to kill someone the responsibility is still on you. No creative input in the choices you get to make ofcourse but in this model there is still input in the choices that are presented to you.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:17:41 on October 21, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Uh no, the responsibility is not on you. God is responsible for everything that transpires within his sandbox. He created you, your nature, your victim, your victim's nature, he created the motive, opportunity, murder weapon, the concept of murder, as well as every series of events that led to the murder. He crafted the murder in every way, shape, and form. God is responsible.
There is zero creative input by anyone but God because God designed the creator knowing the end result of every design decision, meaning your choices are actually being made by God. You are just a character in God's novel, essentially. There's no real way to escape this fact as far as the Abrahamic god is concerned because he is an omnipotent, omniscient designer. It has nothing to do with whether I like it or not.
Neveya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:57:23 on October 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think not liking it has something to do with it as it presents a gap in entertaining a hypothetical idea; that an omnipotent God and accountability for choices/decisions made by humans can exist. But I know this is not something either of us can prove I am just saying it is possible.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:44:01 on October 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, it's definitely something that can be proven, since it's a logical truth. Under such a God, determinism isn't possible. In order for a human to actually be the author of their own destiny, they would have to do something God didn't already design them to do, which would mean that God either isn't all-knowing or isn't all-powerful. Whether or not I like the idea is irrelevant because I've provided sound reasoning regardless.
What's your actual response to the line of reasoning used?
Neveya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:28:06 on October 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That an omnipotent God can let his creations have varying degrees of influence over the world. You are right the design comes into play for the potential to do many things but it is just potential until realized.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:31:44 on October 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
God has also designed which potential shall be realized. There's no uncertainty, since he's God. He knows the exact outcome because he created it.
Neveya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:19:38 on October 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How do we know that God designed which potential shall be realized? Maybe to an extent God would let the potential grow and sometimes let it reach its completion even in cases like potential to murder, but can we really claim morale high ground to place blame on God for not exterminating his creation before that happens? We can only have opinions on things like this, we don't know what being an omnipotent God is like and how He would choose to carry out his creation and the building of worlds and mechanics in said creations. So I would not place blame on God if I did something that I know is not morally right.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:47:30 on October 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To say that God does not know which potential shall be realized is to say that God is ignorant of the result of his design decisions, which would mean he's not omniscient. Since he's supposedly all-knowing, he must know which potential shall be realized.
Well of course you wouldn't, because the reality is humans don't really believe in God. They don't act as though they truly believe. The ones that do are labeled extremists. I mean, if you really believed the majority of people on the planet are going to suffer in what's described in the Bible as a furnace of fire for their eternal existence, I wouldn't imagine you'd be okay with that. That's quite a troubling thing to actually believe. People really just want to believe in immortal souls/reincarnation, anything to stave off death. Fear of death is primal; it's one of the strongest instincts any creature has, if not the strongest. But this is a digression...
What you're saying is essentially "God works in mysterious ways." That's a non-argument. You're basically saying "you're wrong and I can't explain why you're wrong even though what you've said is factually correct because nobody can possibly understand why you're wrong but trust me you're wrong." Not to put words in your mouth, but that's what that argument boils down to in this type of discussion.
However, I don't wish to be combative. If this were a debate, that would not be a valid argument. But I'd rather have a discussion. Yes, such an existence would probably be unfathomable for humans, but you don't have to be God in order to discuss God or the functional reality of such an existence.
God could have created a world without any one thing, and you would have the same amount of free will as you do in the world he decided to create, which is none since it's unattainable under such a god. The true end of this line of reasoning isn't that God is impossible to understand, it's that he's all too easy to understand because he's a fictional character cooked up in the hearts and minds of primitive men, no more or less legitimate than any other fantastical creature men have come up with throughout history. He has no more legitimacy than the litany of other deities or even things like werewolves and vampires. Hell, different cultures all over the world crafted vampire myths just like they crafted the bow and arrow independently. Believing in any one of them, actually, truly believing, is absurd. Not to mention historically, they completely destroyed my people's mother culture and replaced it with Christianity, as they did with so many others, so I already have a bone to pick with them because of their proselytism, but it's even worse because of the sheer absurdity of proclaiming belief in a book that can be easily picked apart by anyone who's read a fictional book before.
Don't blame God if you do something wrong, unless you truly believe he designed in the universe in which case he's to blame for everything be it right or wrong.
Neveya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:59:35 on October 25, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My point was that this is a discussion of opinion, mine too. You were saying things about God stating it as fact and I can understand to a certain extent your "bone to pick" which is why I mentioned about you having disdain for this topic. Maybe if that was cleared you could think about a monotheistic God as a hypothetical entity without tieing it to religious corruption and personal grievances, but I know it is easier said than done. Sorry if it takes a while for me to reply now if we continue the discussion some personal things of my own going on right now too.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:51:59 on October 25, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Okay but I still used a line of reasoning. The things I've been saying are matters of logical fact. Whether you agree with the reasoning or not, it isn't a matter of opinion.
KrytenKoro ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:25:51 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, it's Quiverful. Them and Prosperity are about the most well-known anti-Christian blasphemies there are.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:34:53 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
KrytenKoro ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:40:08 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I know, right? It gasts my flabbers that the most mainstream Christian groups in America are literally saying "well, the commandments don't matter that much" because admitting that their idols are pretty solidly antichristian would require them to question why they attach so strongly to hate-based interpretations of obscure passages.
Like, Jesus, how in the fuck did Jesus's teachings ever get accepted as something to be lauded by capitalists or fascists? It's even more communist than Soviet Russia, to the point that a lot of the instructions, if followed, would literally kill off the human race.
(Because, you know, people were supposed to want Revelation and Paradise to come about, rather than to stick to the status quo.)
Gasts my flabbers, dude, gasts my flabbers.
Val_Hallen ยท 50 points ยท Posted at 15:41:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I always ask those people why we even bother having a judicial system.
I mean, if God has an infallible plan for everything then he wanted, let's say, for that guy to kidnap, rape, and murder that 3 year old girl. Right?
Wouldn't punishing that guy for doing what an all-knowing, all-powerful being had planned go contrary to what God wanted? Shouldn't that man be celebrated for carrying out God's will.
If God has a plan, every war, rape, murder, and every other bad thing that happens on this planet happens specifically because God willed it to happen.
Nobody can be blamed for their actions.
It's all part of God's plan.
"Bu...but free will and the Devil!!"
Oh, so then we are saying that this omnipresent and omnipotent beings plans can be easily thwarted by a few evolved monkeys floating through space on a spinning rock?
Well, that doesn't sound like a very powerful being to me.
Are you also saying that a being that is supposed to be all powerful can't just wipe from utter existence the one evil being that keeps fucking up his plan by making those same evolved monkeys stray from his plan?
Look, either God is all powerful or he isn't.
If he has a plan, and everything happens according to that plan, then he is a fucking sadist at best.
If he has a plan that we can easily usurp because we feel like it, then he isn't all powerful and not really much of a God.
You can't have it both ways.
ancientvoices ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 16:06:48 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not religious and have no stake in this game, but I'm confused by your logic. Couldn't an omnipotent god choose to allow humans to do what they want? Couldn't he be all powerful and just choose not to act? I get that means he wouldn't be benevolent, but I didn't see that in your post. No hate, just genuinely curious.
Burnt_P0Pcorn ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 17:00:05 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, but then there's the question of whether allowing evil to occur is in itself evil. If I am watching a woman get raped and have a gun in my hand, which could stop said rape, am I not also culpable for failing to stop it? Can I truly be a good person when I choose to allow evil that is within my power to prevent?
It's an old dilemma
โ Epicurus 342-270 BC
Dihedralman ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:23:58 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I've heard this argument before and I still can see the flaw. It is necessary for the existence of free will and to have the capacity to do good for their to exist wrongs and tribulations in the Universe. It is more like letting your kids fuck up except scaled to the level of well a god. Creating something and then letting it occur and live its life is an entirely different thing. I mean does someone have the right to interfere with the natural extinction of a species for example or to judge their interactions? There is actually a great deal of depth to these arguments that have been explored but I think the internet is particularly bad about ignoring due to its more horizontal tendencies.
Burnt_P0Pcorn ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:26:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's a false equivalence argument. You're saying that being able to stop someone from stealing a cookie is morally analogous to stopping someone from murdering simply based on the fact that these two things are seen as "bad". Yet if you agree that there's should be greater punishment for murder than for stealing, then you've already conceded the two acts hold varying levels of moral deficiency.
Assuming God can stop evil, then why doesn't he? Honoring the free will doesn't excuse such. If I walked in on someone stabbing you to death, and you cried for help, but my response was simply "whoop, sorry... Gotta let them make their choice" would you not feel completely abandoned. Worse, would you not hold me partially responsible? Wouldn't your family question my morals upon hearing I sat by and did nothing to help when it was within my power to do so?
Dihedralman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:46:06 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I am using an analogy t explain the dimensionality of the problem. I have already stated the scale difference but saying because a scale difference exists doesn't make the analogy wrong or microcosms would be a useless literary tool. My example was letting someone make their own choice, and allowing them to be in a situation where bad things can happen.
On the second point there isn't any whoops sorry or ridiculous case. I would say it is more of a leaving the room scenario and you aren't a god, you exist on the same time scale. The United States military could resolve probably countless conflict at the cost of sovereignty. One of the costs of having a good and evil or meaningful decisions is that bad things happen. As tends to be in theology victims aren't abandoned on a different plane or the same plane in systems of karma. Regardless when you interfere you remove free will of all parties. At what point is there a natural stopping point as each act of evil is comparatively the worst. Once you've taken away the bad the good begins to lose value. Decisions stop being meaningful and in many ways it becomes the worse evil. Shielding isn't always the appropriate thing to do and when dealing with the existence of a species, prolonging an individual isn't always the greatest long term value.
FireHazard11 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:13:39 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Christians claim that their god is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibelevolent. They see no problem with the logical inconsistency that brings up.
Sothar ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:24:40 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Depends on your branch of Christianity. Some believe God takes control and everything is already planned. Some believe we were given free will.
Hy45 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:54:07 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So if we have no free will, why would God have made us?
orronzo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:50:11 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To have someone to let him know, whether what he created was any good?
ancientvoices ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:24:46 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If we didn't have free will, would we be able to decide for ourselves?
orronzo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:42:30 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Right, I totally read that backwards. That's why we do have free will. (Edit: or at least: at will)
Sothar ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:59:09 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I couldn't tell you but that's an interesting question. You'd have to ask someone of religious authority.
Edit: Not even religious but downvoted for telling someone to ask someone more informed. lul
FireHazard11 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:09:29 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I have. The answers are always some variation of "Stop asking questions."
bunker_man ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:53:51 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
People insist that that means he should forcibly prevent bad things from occurring, yet those same people often insist that life in heaven would be bad, since you'd barely count as a person if you had a mind that was forcibly limited from doing or thinking anything bad. People can't have it both ways.
CleverHansDevilsWork ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:30:11 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If he can stop anyone from doing anything, and often does, and is all-knowing, all-seeing, and all-powerful, then a lack of intervention is a deliberate choice on his part. If he can and will intervene anytime he doesn't like a particular outcome, then all of the choices were ultimately his. You never had free will at all if he just negates any decisions he doesn't like and only allows those he approves of.
SecondTalon ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 16:14:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Remember, the Christian God has unconditional love for you, except under certain conditions.
Way I figure it, if the Christian God exists, then either the general Christian belief of an unconditionally loving god is accurate and, by extension, said God doesn't give a fuck what you believe 'cause he loves you so hell doesn't even exist as that'd be dumb, said God just wants people to be awesome to each other but if they're not no biggie since God loves everyone and besides, humans are operating on imperfect knowledge....
Or said God has all those conditions and requirements and as such, isn't worth worship or veneration as said God's just a shitty spiteful whining fuck.
Clack082 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:18:57 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Bible explicitly says one of the conditions of God loving you is believing in Jesus and having faith. Only through Jesus can you get into Heaven.
The Bible doesn't have any provision for nice people who don't believe in Jesus being the lamb of God, getting into Heaven.
It's a popular feel good view, but it's not supported by the Bible.
storryeater ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:17:41 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There could also be option c, that God loves humans and forgives thembbut, just like the father who cut off his Nazi son, understands that some squandered all their chnces and would squander their future ones too...
SecondTalon ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:57:32 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But that's not unconditional love.
storryeater ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:47:22 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Is love even truly unconditional? wouldn't any human who loves a serial rapist genocidal murderer as he is, for example, be called distorted themselves? wouldn't true love, in that case, require one to assist them in changing rather than enabling them? Wouldn't a just being, even one who loves such a man , not smite him down if said man refuses to even repent or change his ways?
Unconditional love is not unconditional enabling. And one must ask on whether the loving thing for one who also loves everyone else is to put such a being down.
TheKrimeStopper ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:57:39 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Welcome to philosophy. Typing in a forum is horrible to convey complex ideas, it's much better talking in a class room. Just for the hell of it, I took some philosophy at a private college so I'll try to address some of your ideas the best I can from a Christian view of God. I'm agnostic btw, not some white knight religious nut defending religion. /u/ancientvoices is correct, God gave us free will. You frame a person's choice as "God's Will", not giving anyone a chance to make a decision. You state that any action someone does good or bad is God's Will. We have 'free choice', we can decide if we want to do good or evil. God wants us essentially, to take care of one another, get married, have children and praise him as the all powerful creator. We can choose to do that or not. If we obey him, we go to heaven, if not, hell. About 'the evil being that keeps fucking up his plan'. I can't really go into the theology of evil but to make it brief, you can't have good without evil. If evil didn't exist, then everything just, 'is'. Can't have life with out death, black without white or good with out evil.
If your really interested in theology and philosophy, I'd highly recommend an introductory course at a community college.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 14:42:53 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Most people are religious because they are afraid of burning. Good luck making them accept they are sinners who will burn.
NebulaOne_ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:10:12 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
speak
max225 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:42:28 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Change "burn" to "blaze." 420 blaze it in hell for all eternity if you be of inconstant faith or virtue, faggot. I mean that just sounds like a right wild shindig to me.
SinkLeakOnFleek ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 16:41:51 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He's wrong. Biblically, God states he will not put you through more temptation than you can handle, it is rather the person's fault for not resisting the temptation. And while the devil is causing him to do it, the devil can only act through you if you allow him to by giving in to the temptation.
ObieUno ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:38:03 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Bingo!
DankusMemus462 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:56:11 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Same. A week back our RE teacher, whoโs super religious, said priests are pedophiles because they are the biggest target of the devil.
EverGreenPLO ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:33:09 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He was extremely stupid
Ftfy
bunker_man ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:49:05 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Its the fault of martin luther. He came up with sola fide, and indirectly total depravity. The entire basis of these things is that people are incorruptibly evil, and trying to be good is impossible, so only by substituting jesus' goodness for yours via faith can you be considered good. You are still meant to try to be good, but its seen as an impossible task, so its easy to interpret that in a way where your individual failings aren't really particular to you, since what matters is having faith.
J0ak3s ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:31:44 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I belive thats called pleading insanity.
SyncOverlord ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:14:34 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's when ya fuckin' deck them and say
"Oh shit sorry, that was Satan, you know how it is mate."
/s of course
ElizabethHopeParker ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:25:44 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Star Trek logic: It's not my fault, I was taken over by an alien.
mr_mcsonsteinwitz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:41:45 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Former Christian here. I never liked that โDevil made me do itโ mindset. Thereโs a verse early in Job where God asks the Devil what heโs been up to lately. The Devil tells him that heโs been walking to and fro. This verse is one most Christians hold up like a victory: it shows that unlike their God, Satan is not omnipresent. He canโt be everywhere at once.
My issue is that... if youโre a Christian who subscribes to that sort of thought process, why would you be so arrogant as to presume that of everything else he could be doing, the Devil has nothing better to do than make you cheat on your wife?
spysappenmyname ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:54:29 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
and all the goods in your life are gifts from god for making rightful desisisions with your free will. And poor people are poor it's gods punishment for bad deeds.
Basically "I can't do wrong because I have god on my side"
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:12:11 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did you punch him in the face and then make the same claim???
PaperHumanMan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:47:44 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, I am a pretty peaceful person. I did keep our conversations short. He has two kids and he explained to me that he would raise them to hate homosexuals. I feel bad for his kids really. I could not imagine growing up in that house hold.
moleratical ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:22:18 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Let me help you out with this. That guy isn't actually religious in the way that you and I understand religion, rather he is what we like to call a sanctimonious asshole that uses religion as an excuse to be a total cunt-wobble and absolve himself from any personal responsibility, just like Jesus or Allah, or Vishnu or whatever religion he pretends to follow what's him to do.
Unfortunately this is also the same attitude that most fervently religious people that I have known have.
pfun4125 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:22:44 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Refusal to accept responsibility for ones actions. Very simple. Often exhibited by worthless pieces of shit.
moonshadow264 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:24:26 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah. I'm a Catholic, and here is how I understand it: when you do bad things, the devil is tempting you. But you still have a choice to do the right thing. The devil doesn't make you do anything. If you hang out with a bad crowd, and they pressure you to go steal some stuff with them, then sure, they are partially responsible for what you did, but it's also your fault for giving in in the first place.
K340 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:53:01 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If he's so irredeemably vulnerable to the devil's possession then I guess for the good of society we just have take him out in the street and end his suffering.
tultulkatan ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:53:12 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So then we know the devil is working through your body. Better put that body in prison.
MsAnnabel ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:16:24 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs called not taking responsibility for my bad actions. And religious hypocrisy
brokenearth03 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:26:50 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The devil just provides temptation. Humans have to exercise their free will to deny it. Succomb, and it's your own damn (ha) fault.
304079 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:40:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The religious don't read their holy books. If they did, they would stop being religious.
JamesR624 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:20:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What's not to get? People using that KNOW their religion is horseshit but also know that most other people (most people in this country are religious) will fall for it. What matters isn't whether you're right or wrong, but if you can get away with it.
denvertebows15 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:29:30 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's because if he passes the buck to the devil it means he didn't do it so he's still gets to go to heaven. If he's got to admit that humans have flaws and he did something wrong he thinks God will send him straight to Hell.
SteezyAs314 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:53:59 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ha! The devil just jerked me off
jacksonpm23 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:47:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I.e. sociology blaming lower class crime on everyone and everything but the perpetrator.
Z0MGbies ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:19:20 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And I bet all the good things (if any) were his own work, perhaps as a favour to God?
chocolate_jellyfish ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:30:11 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Easy excuses because they are not called out strongly enough. Acceptance is much too high.
skittlkiller57 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:31:31 on September 27, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If any of my friends started thinking like that I would punch then in the face as hard as I can every day, and when questioned I would say it's the devils fault. Repeat until they take responsibility for their actions.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:14:24 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The secular (left) version of this is "the white man / colonialism / oppression made me do it."
NinjaLanternShark ยท 349 points ยท Posted at 15:45:46 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
While he's still a creep and a douchebag, he did in fact accept personal responsibility:
โTwelve years ago, as a young teenager, I acted inexcusably for which I am extremely sorry and deeply regret,โ
And the quote about not accepting responsibility was given by an unnamed source who said that's "probably" what he would say:
I mean, he's still a creep and a douchebag. But OP is fake news.
Atomhed ยท 55 points ยท Posted at 16:07:05 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks for posting the context, context is important...I don't think many people noticed that the "headline" wasn't a quote...
As a non-denominational Christian (as opposed to a delusional "Christian"), it's more about accepting your shame and embracing regret, that is what leads to repentance. Of course, these men are not Christians...they just claim to be.
I really don't care to hear people say "I'm sorry"...I'd rather hear "I regret my shameful actions and the pain they have caused", that at least acknowledges guilt.
Too many people say sorry just to move on...I find the phrase "I'm sorry" to be insincere. Reminds me of the South Park Coon Trilogy with C'thulu...the BP exec doing glamour shots saying "I'm sorry...." with a different emphasis each time...then he's lying there naked on a, if I recall correctly, a polar bear fur in front a a fire with a glass of wine.
Sorry's are worthless. Regret and shame needs to be embraced to be a better person tomorrow.
NinjaLanternShark ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:19:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This again comes from that questionable source, but they mentioned he was gearing up to return to his show. That goes with what you said -- if you're truly repentant and ashamed of your actions, you should remove yourself from this kind of public display. Now he didn't return to the show, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was more the network's decision than his own. Bottom line is he shouldn't have even tried to.
Atomhed ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:54:31 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Absolutely, if he is a real Christian he would sequester himself to a bare bones dwelling, and spend quite a bit of time actually thinking about this. After all, that is all that "talking to God" is...thinking to yourself.
He'd feel an urgent need to go back to the basics and get his shit straight. That's what happened in my soul when I started my road to recovery. After 10 years of addiction, I hit the reset button on my life and started over. That's repentance. At this point, he likely can't repent. It's been too long, and he's gone too far down his road to even go back to where he started.
My road was fairly straight...it was easy to see where I went wrong and what I had to change. This man's road is a scribble.
It would serve him, and the GOP in general to stop talking about religion as if it makes them better than everyone else. Or just stop talking about it in general. According to them, pride is a sin...taking pride in a belief one claims to follow is the worst kind of pride. I mean, like, how hard was it to actually decide to join a religion? It's like Trump's pride...he's so proud of things that were completely effortless for him and honestly believes those things make him better.
Worst of all, according to Revelations, The Prosperity Gospel very well could be the work of Satan. These people either don't actually read their Bibles, or don't actually care. Either option makes them charlatans. Fuck them all.
NinjaLanternShark ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:20:12 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Also a good option: Use the rest of your life to help others. In his case he could be talking to other men about the devastating effects his sin had and encouraging men facing similar struggles.
And you know what? It could happen yet. He's been largely invisible for the last two years. We can only hope he's been paying some much-overdue attention to his wife and kids. Maybe in another year he starts speaking to mens groups about his experiences and encouraging them to man up, come clean, accept responsibility, and make amends for whatever they're battling.
I mean, we haven't seen anything to suggest he will... but we can hope.
Atomhed ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:07:50 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Without hope, the current state of the world would be unlivable. We must keep that alive, at least.
NinjaLanternShark ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:10:18 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Amen bother
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:25:01 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
NinjaLanternShark ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:02:25 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Heh. I found the site OP article came from. Here's another article from it:
Which is based on this tweet:
The logic being that rich people will benefit from GOP tax cuts, and he's rich, so he'll benefit. Again, while that logic may be fine, the wording suggests something much more brazen and offensive happened.
I also enjoyed these other headlines:
So, no bias there :)
thipp ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:38:14 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ah, another shining example of quality journalism. Amazing.
Gafgb12 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:17:43 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That wouldn't stir up the correct sentiment, though.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:18:57 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The whole family blamed the daughters for the abuse. Any semblance of personal responsibility they exhibit is to manipulate their white trash fanbase.
nickcooper1991 ยท 54 points ยท Posted at 15:23:46 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yea I'm a Christian and I really have no idea what he's talking about. The whole point of our religion is that man is inherently flawed, and the key to forgiveness is to apologize and repent. Personal accountability is a major part of it
kevinator35 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:30:41 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nail on the head. Free will means it is his fault.
nickcooper1991 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:46:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yea, I would imagine that even some Calvinists (do they even exist anymore) would find his excuse flimsy
mgwil24 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:43:02 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lol yes there's actually a massive movement of Reformed theology (includes Calvinism) sweeping western Christianity. And yes they all assert the doctrine of personal responsibility for sin. My personal opinion is that this is a contradiction with other things they say, but they don't see it this way.
Dr_FarnsHindrance ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:54:32 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
None of that makes any sense either though. Why would you have to ask for god to forgive you for being what he made you?
You also don't need religion to understand that people can be inherently problematic, or to figured out how to deal with those problems.
Playing the blame game just means you haven't figure out your own problems yet.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:32:31 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well because he didn't make us sinful, we became that way on our own. If you have a child who does something bad they apologize, right? Did you make the child mess up because you're his parent or does he have free will to make his own actions?
Dr_FarnsHindrance ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:24:12 on September 26, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So if things can happen without gods knowledge or approval, than how do you know god created anything? If something exists that can't be predicted (understood) or controlled by god, then those things either have control over god, or god doesn't really care about them.
Your reasoning exists solely to solve the problem with the existence of evil, which there is zero evidence of. You can literally justify any belief using that kind of reasoning, no matter how terrible or ridiculous it is. I can even argue that religion was designed to test if we're willing to believe in nonsense just so we can avoid punishment or gain reward.
Or maybe life is just too difficult and it's easier to follow directions.
CRGRO ยท 143 points ยท Posted at 13:40:36 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"Father, I forgive you for unleashing the insatiable sexual deviant Judas amongst us humans. Even if he can force me to molest, to your grace and love, I will attest."
Mrminecrafthimself ยท 101 points ยท Posted at 14:29:14 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Judas isn't the devil in Christianity...
RancidLemons ยท 122 points ยท Posted at 14:49:29 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I dunno, he made Jesus feel a little cross
Too_Many_Packets ยท 47 points ยท Posted at 15:20:03 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nailed it.
Scmadrid ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 15:39:20 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
His crowning achievement.
emanresol ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:07:44 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Bloody well right
j_la ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:46:30 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I wash my hands of this pun thread.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:40:05 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I hung around for this?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:25:16 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh my side, I'm laughing
Scmadrid ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:14:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What even spearheaded these threads?
RDay ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:10:36 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
One last temptation.
Odowla ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:04:06 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ohhhh shit
whiznat ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 14:42:44 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Of all the cognitive dissonance going on here, this is what we're focusing on? Of course, to be fair, there is quite a bit to choose from.
falsestone ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:36:36 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Perhaps you're thinking of Barabbus, the murderer/rapist/what-have-you deviant that they let free instead of Jesus at the trial?
sotonohito ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 15:52:20 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, but the way it does work in his religion is that he gets to proclaim that he repented and that Jesus forgave him, and then all his victims are obligated to forgive him or else they're guilty of being bitter and failing to believe in Jesus.
Libby Ann, a former fundamentalist quiverfull blogger now turned atheist, talks about the poisonous aspect of "forgiveness" in fundamentalist circles fairly often. Here's a recent article on the topic, the rapist in this one isn't Dugger, but the attitude she talks about is exactly what Dugger is depending on http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2017/09/how-evangelical-ideas-about-forgiveness-failed-this-rape-survivor.html
mgwil24 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:40:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree that Christianity in general is all about forgiveness- otherwise what's the point? But that doesn't absolve him from legal consequences of his actions, even if he has been forgiven in a spiritual sense. The way I've seen this handled is the perpetrator is asked to leave and go somewhere else even after full repentance. If they are truly heartbroken over what they've done they are fine with this and respectful of the pain they've caused.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 14:55:09 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's all made up anyway. Why not make up your own rules?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:55:25 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:59:41 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I've always wondered this about Mormonism; if your religion is explicitly racist, wouldn't any reasonable person conclude that it is an immoral belief system? Instead they just ignore the "bad parts" and carry on.
It's like with the rest of christianity and slavery; if your religion explicitly supports slavery, wouldn't any reasonable person conclude that it is an immoral belief system? Instead they just ignore the "bad parts" and carry on.
Atomhed ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:38:15 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well, that's pretty much how our laws, economy, and prison system work as well...
These men aren't Christians. They claim to be for show. We all already know they are hypocrites not acting in good faith. They are duplicitous.
But God being made up is an opinion. Yes, the "proof" we have of Jesus is obscure, but the proof that God does not exist is even more lacking.
It's called faith because there isn't supposed to be proof. It's belief. You may not believe, or have faith, and that is fine. It is based on your life's experiences, I assume. I do have faith, based on my life's experiences, and there simply isn't anything to prove.
Now, if some people got together to find some evidence of another life, or another realm, or whatever...they may not find anything, but it wouldn't be proof of anything.
In my opinion, and in faith, God and Science are one and the same. God is Math. God is biology.
Satan would be Economics, but I think everyone would agree with that. (Intermission joke, guys, don't take it too seriously.)
I'm getting way off track here, but I'm just attempting to get ahead of the various arguments that will inevitably come following this comment...
I do not believe God is a man-like being, or even a being as we are able to understand. To me God is a force, like I said, science itself.
When I read Genesis, I am reading the description of events of the big bang theory. The modern translations say these things happened in 7 days, but as a non-denominational Christian I don't use the bible as an encyclopedia...the thing was written so long ago, yet in their limited understanding of science, the book of Genesis and the big bang theory are very similar. That isn't proof of anything either, but it is something to think about, in my opinion.
Tl;Dr: I apologize for the essay, I am not attempting to argue or tell you that you wrong, just typing out the thoughts your comment sparked. And isn't that what we're really here for? To give our opinions about crap? I mean, how many Redditors believe they are right about everything? Most of them, from what I can tell...and they usually won't even do the courtesy of explaining their line of logic. So, again, I am not trying to argue with you, just attempting to add my 2 cents with a side of context.
BertSasquatch ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:28:18 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The order of events does not match up for this interpretation. https://dl0.creation.com/articles/p117/c11793/chart.jpg
Atomhed ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:05:25 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, like I said, the bible claims this all happened in 7 days.
Did you read my comment?
We are dealing with an anthology based upon word of mouth. I did not say that they are identical, just pointing out both beliefs have parallels. At the end of the day, we do not know what happens next. It is unknown. Their is simply no hard proof for any of it.
Can you prove to me that math was not designed? There is an awful lot of structure in the universe to be completely random. Can you prove there was not a nudge? Can you prove this nudge was not God? I can't. So I'm left with my faith and beliefs. I have yet to witness any scientific discovery that is at odds with my spirituality. I am a non-denominational Christian. I was not raised that way. I was not influenced or trying to fit in.
BertSasquatch ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:53:03 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree there are some parallels, though a lot of things don't work. If you believe that the first several chapters of Genesis are allegorical/poetic or if you believe the bible contains errors then your interpretation can work I suppose.
I was only trying to point out that reading Genesis where the days represent vast ages but the order of events remains is not a coherent view. It appears you hold a different view. I should have read your comment more carefully. I saw the paragraph about Genesis and the big bang and wanted to point the differences out.
I won't argue any of these points because I do believe that the universe was designed by the God revealed in the bible.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:25:06 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How is this not a "no true Scotsman" fallacy, though? They are Christians if they say they are. As much as you are if you do not give all your wealth to the poor and live as a beggar...the book is pretty clear.
You're wrong about this on a basic philosophical level. The two stances are not equal; "gods do not exist" is the default condition until it is proven that some god exists.
That which is asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.
Atomhed ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:57:47 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It isn't an assertion, it is a faith based belief. I am not saying God exists, but that I believe God exists.
This debate is so old that at this point both sides have a burden of proof. I do not claim to be "right" or "correct".
I theorize that God is real based upon a select few events that have happened in my life that otherwise should have turned out drastically different. Think Vincent in Pulp Fiction.
This is what I call faith.
Just because we disagree does not mean I am not going to use even a basic scientific method to scrutinize the these events.
If I know that X will kill someone, as a fact, then I've got a control group. If I experience X, I've got identical situations. If I experience X2, I now have a control group and an experimental group. My independent variable being a higher power, and my dependent variable being surviving.
Yes, it is not quite an experiment, but when you can't recreate something you've experienced first hand you can still apply the principles. I do not get to say to you that you are wrong, based on this "experiment", but I am most definitely able to assert that my faith is as legitimately conceived as your opinion.
My point is that neither side is "right", because the whole point is to not know factually, but to have faith. You either have faith in a higher power, or believe that this is it.
Edit: this is not the no true Scott's fallacy, this is not gatekeeping. If you want to say you are a Christian, you have to behave the way the religion dictates. These are people that accept a President with a cult following who refers to him as God Emporor. When his own religious advisor said that to speak out against Trump is to go against God, these "Christians" did not remove their support. These men are charlatans.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:00:16 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Do you care whether your beliefs are true?
That's absolutely false. Age does not change the way logic functions.
Atomhed ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:05:38 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You remind me of the type of person who says water boarding is no big deal, that they could handle it, it isn't torture...only to tap out in 2 seconds to then say, yes, it is absolutely torture.
Do you know what the definition of belief is?
I have clearly explained my views on faith vs hard facts.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:09:19 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's not even relevant to the discussion. What are you even talking about?? Sean Hannity is a christian!
Atomhed ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:22:08 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not referring to Sean Hannity. I'm referring to Mancow Muller.
I'm a Space Marine.
I said so.
Must be true.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:25:26 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't even know what you're talking about anymore.
Are you somehow accusing me of making the same mistake about burden of proof that you made in your first comment?
Atomhed ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:37:08 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm saying that it takes more to follow a religion than just saying one does, and that if you believe anything anyone says just because they say it, then you've got no place to speak about burden of proof.
In this debate, any side that says their belief is fact has a burden of proof. That includes religious people. At least I'm speaking in terms that acknowledge what I believe is merely what I believe.
servohahn ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:27:02 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It does often enough. In fact saying something like "the devil was in me" frequently is the apology.
varukasalt ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:00:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well if he was a Catholic all he would have to do is go to a priest and say oops I'm sorry. He would be completely absolved. Like it never happened. One of the many reasons I am no longer Catholic or religious of any type
bunker_man ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:19:04 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Unsurprisingly, fundamentalists don't necessarily practice the religion correctly. They just obsess about it more.
merlore8 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:21:25 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not necesaarily...my family is generic Christian and when my family found out my dad was cheating on my mom, she was convinced the devil had 'posessed' him. My question was why can't he just be an asshole? Why can't he be accountable for his actions?
chrisphoenix7 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:17:41 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's an awful big religion, you'd be surprised what people convince themselves of.
jworsham ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:57:26 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you!
Clasmae ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:09:42 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
ugh, how this font is displayed is spinning my head around
SmshdPotatoes_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:00:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Would you say it is r/mildlyinfuriating ?
totally_jawsome ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:23:50 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well he's a moron so...
poopbagman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:39:45 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I wouldn't read too far into the logic of religion.
ad8871 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:46:44 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Notably, there are branches of very mainstream Christianity that come quite close to this line of thinking. Reformed theology / Calvinism essentially believes that we are all hopelessly depraved and stuck in sin, and God chooses whom he will save and whom he will not save. If you're chosen, there's nothing you can do to escape the pull/draw of God, and if you're not chosen, there's nothing you can really do to claw your way into the Kingdom.
Regardless of this line of thinking, they still admit that they don't know who is in or out so they still try to make everyone own their guilt and feel bad about it. So even these churches would expect you to apologize for your sin and try to live better
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:56:26 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He knows. We give human being far too much credit. This man is as evil as evil comes.
GhettoGrunt ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:18:40 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You see he believes strongly in prayer. He prayed eeevery night for a lover, then he realized the Lord in his wisdom does not work that way... Soooo he raped them instead and prayed for forgiveness!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:39:59 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Expert level responsibility dodging.
kingeryck ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:09:42 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Like anyone pays attention to the rules when it comes to their own behavior
g33kn3t ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:43:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I am (close to) same religion...can confirm this is his (idiotic) comments alone and does not particularly reflect the views and opinions of all of the sane people here. Even the devil was like "bro, srsly that was all you".
karmablack ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:24:03 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
As someone who was Christian for 13 years, that definitely is not how it works.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:29:00 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"Hate the sinners and love the sin." - Jesus or not
givinit2urdukes ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:08:37 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
how are you guys having a serious conversation when the font is all wacky ?!
popartrapop ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:13:28 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Romans 7:15, yes it is.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:26:20 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's all made up. It what ever these psychopath what it to be.
milkysniper ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:21:39 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The moment he made this claim Iโd hope he would be given one opportunity to confirm this is what he believes, before being stripped of everything he owns or prizes because thatโs all Godโs fault.
SaveToShare ยท 2441 points ยท Posted at 13:31:28 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well shit. Letโs just empty all the prisons and pool our resources...find this devil guy.
William_Wang ยท 972 points ยท Posted at 14:34:54 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
he went do to Georgia I think
bob-leblaw ยท 437 points ยท Posted at 14:39:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To fiddle somebody
kinjjibo ยท 267 points ยท Posted at 14:54:03 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Devil played the fiddle while Josh did the diddle
[deleted] ยท 146 points ยท Posted at 15:51:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He played,
Josh is in the mountains, run, boys, run
Jared's in the house of the rising subs
R. Kelly's in the bedpan a picking out dough,
Michael will your chimp bite, "No, child, no"
Rushderp ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 16:25:50 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ew.
Nylonknot ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:27:48 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I totally sang that.
DorisTheExplorer ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:30:33 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Pip pip doodly doo
jawide626 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:00:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Underrated comment of the day
Adamskinater ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:19:43 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
FTFY
EspressoTheory ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:19:56 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, thatโs the Duggar dudeโs part
[deleted] ยท 38 points ยท Posted at 14:49:40 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, I heard heโs in the details.
sprucenoose ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 15:10:09 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You'll have to get through me to find him, I'm his advocate.
TheRealCHeet ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 16:41:08 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I heard he wears Prada.
avenger1011000 ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 14:49:59 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Looking for a soul to steal?
Free_ ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 15:04:12 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No doubt. I heard he was in a bind 'cuz he was way behind and was willing to make a deal.
The-Sublimer-One ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:32:33 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A golden fiddle would sound horrible if anyone ever actually tried to play it.
marino1310 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:53:34 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was an electric fiddle.
cortexstack ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:37:29 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why? Won't the sound echo inside it the same way because it's still the right shape, just made of gold?
chalkiest_studebaker ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 15:22:19 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
NO HES IN JERSEY. I SEENT HIM
thepenguinking84 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:54:54 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There is some conflicting reports that he A) May have died and is buried in Killarney, or B) That he rose again and joined the British army.
benweiser22 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:36:38 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Great he'll blend right in there, we'll never find him now.
ApollyonX210 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:53:58 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Love this reference.
ScorpioGlitch ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:50:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He was looking for the soul of a red dress.
TyrionBananaster ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 14:44:55 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This sounds somewhat like the plot of Wonder Woman.
Dangermommy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:56:06 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, the solution is so obvious when you think about it.
Caspar-the-ghost ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:36:17 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The search has been called off due to the discovery of the super devil. Resources were diverted to finding the super devil, who is at least six inches taller, rides a motorcycle, and has a jar of marmalade that we suspect forces people to commit adultery.
imsecretlythedoctor ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:52:49 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
we're gonna find the devil and bring him to justice
cybervalidation ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:08:17 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I suggest heading to the crossroads and falling down on your knees.
medalofhalo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:51:04 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You have to beat him in a rock off
LolVolcano ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:24:30 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He works through you, and every other piece of shit atheist dumbass on Reddit. You all laugh and think he's fake. He's got you all fooled.
[deleted] ยท 1092 points ยท Posted at 13:23:25 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He really has a hard time admitting he did something wrong, doesn't he?
NinjaLanternShark ยท 520 points ยท Posted at 15:58:50 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well, he actually did admit he did something wrong:
I mean he's still a creep, and he still only confessed and apologized after it came out, but it's not true that he didn't accept responsibility. That quote is what an "unnamed source" thinks he "probably" would say:
Edit: messed up the link...
Eat_Mor3_Puss ยท 210 points ยท Posted at 17:02:33 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hey, I wanna thank you for this post. I love anyone who values the truth, even if it isn't satisfying. Just another bullshit headline.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 20:26:34 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
captaintapatio ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:34:51 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wtf
GhostBeefSandwich ยท 76 points ยท Posted at 16:25:34 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And by authorities he means church elders or church councilors, not the cops, don't forget!
NinjaLanternShark ยท 74 points ยท Posted at 16:30:51 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No they went to a state trooper too. You remember right? He's the one currently serving a 56-year sentence for child pornography.
Edit: But snark aside -- the statute of limitations on Duggar's crimes really should be longer than 7 years, otherwise he'd be in jail now.
humicroav ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 17:38:36 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He was arrested for it, sentenced to five years, let out early, and then did it again!
NinjaLanternShark ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 17:45:17 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Also, he'll be eligible for parole from his 56 year sentence after serving 8 years! That's messed up.
Now that's eligible. We can only hope it's not granted.
the-effects-of-Dust ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:40:44 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I swear I remember reading that the trooper they went to was a friend of the family, and I was under the impression that they didn't report it to him as a cop but went to him in an informal manner, like the way my parents had a cop friend come over and give me a stern talking to when they found a joint in my room.
NinjaLanternShark ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:49:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's pretty much exactly what happened.
Except that the trooper was a closet pedo. But I think the phrase "stern talking to" was used exactly like that.
SexyWhitedemoman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:57:18 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"Officer, did I do anything wrong?"
"Well, did you take any pictures?"
"Of course not!"
"Then yes, you did something wrong"
canihavemymoneyback ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:54:03 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'll bet my last dollar that your first quote was read off a piece of paper prepared by his lawyer. Refusal to read it could have meant jail time. You know, so that he'd be amongst his own kind. Criminals.
NinjaLanternShark ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:43:09 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well, the larger tragedy here is he's not at risk for jail time because the statue of limitations had passed. That needs to be fixed -- and the good news is, it's changing in many states.
And even though most confessions like this are probably carefully crafted by a third-party, it's still not fair to pretend that a tabloid's account of what an unnamed source thinks Dugger would probably say... is actually a quote from him.
NiteNiteSooty ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:41:47 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
i thought it only came out because he confessed to it. his sisters didnt even know it happened
MyUsernameIsJudge ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:27:51 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wow good thing he's willing to accept counseling as a punishment for molestation. That's usually what chomos get as punishment, right? Counseling?
NinjaLanternShark ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:54:52 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My only point here is this headline is intentionally misleading, and crappy clickbait "journalism" sucks.
I do not believe that just because someone molests a child, it really doesn't matter whether what we say about them is true or not.
EDIT: Sorry, you were just commenting on the story, not attacking me. OP has my panties in a bunch because I can't stand how quick people are to believe and propagate things that reinforce their existing views, no matter how easy it is to confirm they're lies. I don't know or care anything about this jerk -- but it was so clearly yellow journalism yet so many people jumped into the fray.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:14:25 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If he's that sorry, shouldn't he go to jail?
NinjaLanternShark ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:01:07 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He can be burned alive at the stake for all I care. Stomp on his testicles with stilettos if you want.
My only point is, no matter what someone says, does or is accused of, we owe it to ourselves to respect the facts. Don't say he can't admit he did something wrong, if he published a statement saying he did something wrong. Don't say he's blaming it on the devil, if he never said that.
Say he's a lying, cheating, piece of garbage. But no matter how bad you think he is, it's never ok to fabricate and propagate lies.
otra_gringa ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:02:10 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He didn't get caught, either. He went to his parents and confessed. They ignored it until a year later when he told them he was still doing it.
Sounds like he did the best he could as a fucked-up kid, and it's on his parents that their reputation was more important than protecting their daughters (and daughter's friends) from continuing sexual molestation.
NinjaLanternShark ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:10:32 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I also think he'd have garnered more sympathy if it had ended with that, but then along came Ashley Madison and it's like... you didn't learn a thing did you?
otra_gringa ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:24:20 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He's probably got weird sex issues from his upbringing, and his wife could, too. But that was about consenting adults, hard to be mad when we're talking about him molesting little girls and his parents allowing him to continue.
_YouDontKnowMe_ ยท 321 points ยท Posted at 14:20:14 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sounds like the
modemmodern day conservative playbook.Admit no wrong, and do harm.
shelldog ยท 72 points ยท Posted at 15:18:55 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
/r/keming
[deleted] ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 15:47:07 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's got absolutely nothing to do with conservatism. I'm politically left-wing as well, but when conservatives do something wrong in their personal lives it isn't always somehow an indictment or reflection of their conservatism. There's no reason whatsoever to believe that there is some inherent connection between political conservatism and refusing to admit fault.
Roflkopt3r ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 17:07:09 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's about taboos. This does often end up linked with conservatism, but others do it as well.
The classic example is the conservative family that has internal turmoil but pretends that everything was fine or that it was all someone elses' fault to the outside to maintain a public facade. Often it has something to do with love and sexuality, like a homosexual family member, infidelity, or sexual violence.
The left/progressives are usually the ones breaking with such taboos or advocating honesty (like the honesty to admit that a marriage won't work out - see the history of divorce) to begin with, so on many of these topics they are better off. Their issue seems to be more around taboos like racism and sexism where different subgroups act with different strictness.
grubas ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:43:12 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They are confusing conservative with GOP-evangelical. AKA family values and White Jesus. The people who want to ban porn for corrupting society, the lack of jaysus causing hurricanes, etc..
So when they cheat it becomes a whole weird ass, "I have sought atone/I was tempted".
Now you can be "liberal" aka Democract and be like that(Weiner), but goddamn it is funnier/sadder when it is people like that
01dSAD ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:47:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
โJaysusโ Made me waste some food coffee spewed from my nose, but it was worth it for the laugh.
Scmadrid ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 15:43:18 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think it's more than a conservative playbook. It's the nature of many people.
MeatloafPopsicle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:14:00 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sounds like modern day millennials
WhaleDickNachos ยท -53 points ยท Posted at 14:25:24 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because liberals do no harm? Stop trying to divide people and cause conflicts this is the wrong sub for that shit
phpdevster ยท 130 points ยท Posted at 14:37:00 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Your false equivalence is 100% detached from reality. Here's what the Republican party stands for:
https://np.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/70orbo/trumpcares_back_and_now_it_will_let_insurers_jack/dn56syo/?utm_content=permalink&utm_medium=user&utm_source=reddit
And look at their voting record:
https://np.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/6tm9h5/cmv_over_the_next_1020_years_the_biggest_threat/dlm31u9/?utm_content=permalink&utm_medium=front&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=changemyview
You need to snap out of your fantasy reality. Republicans indisputably carry the majority of blame for actively making life miserable for the overwhelming majority of Americans.
Charcoalthefox ยท 41 points ยท Posted at 14:43:38 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Jesus man.
That's worse than I thought.
platypocalypse ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 15:16:24 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's exactly as I thought.
Charcoalthefox ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:24:46 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm gonna grow up in a country that's gonna fuck me sideways.
Also, on a completely unrelated note, the orientation of text on this sub is more than mildly infuriating. It's making me nauseous.
platypocalypse ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:46:12 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Click preferences next to your username. Scroll down, uncheck the box that says "Allow Reddits to show me custom styles."
If you're under 18, consider going to university in Europe. It's unimaginably cheap, and almost all major European cities offer a better quality of life than almost all American cities. Study engineering and you'll be allowed to stay afterwards.
If you're over 18, it's not too late. Apply to universities in Europe, to study engineering. That's the only way into Europe.
Charcoalthefox ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:49:36 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks for the tip. I'm gonna go change that.
And yeah, I'm only 16 so I suppose I still have a chance. I kinda already had some thoughts of moving out of the US as soon as I was able. It's been a shit show these last 2 years.
dangolo ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 14:54:15 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Those links are amazing. CMV's professional contrarians were stunned and ran away screaming :)
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:55:28 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
wow, a whole month to respond and /u/pfabs never could come up with anything to back up his assertion.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:06:15 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:17:29 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:27:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:30:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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pfabs ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:43:15 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You can look through my post history, I make arrangements all the time. Yours is nothing but insults and trolling.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:52:51 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Last time I ran into you, you said I was lying about the existence of my grandma, lol. Get help
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:15:37 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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Swillyums ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:35:29 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Of course your political alignment doesn't automatically make you a good person any more than it makes you a bad one, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't compare the two. One has a purpose and history that is shown to be counterproductive to a healthy society.
Your argument is like saying that their were good members of the Nazi party. Of course that's an exaggeration, but the principle is the same.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:45:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
key difference: Those republicans don't get elected.
No one gives a shit if you have a liberal friend who checks all the 'stereotypical raging sjw strawman' boxes. They aren't the ones drafting and passing laws.
Actual goddamn republican congressmen deny climate change, want to revoke healthcare from millions, want to revoke net neutrality, want to torpedo campaign finance reform, want to remove any and all regulations on big businesses, but also want to put in place purposefully stifling regulations on women's bodies.
Poopystink16 ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 14:46:31 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you are miserable here you will never be happy
Vsx ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 14:49:17 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's definitely a great place to live until you have a moderate to major medical issue and end up in crushing debt that saps your will to live.
sewsnap ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:14:17 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Or even a Dr's visit. Went to the Dr because I thought my kid might have Strep. $357 which insurance helped with 0. For a sick visit. Utter bullshit.
Poopystink16 ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 15:18:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes debt is suffocating, couldnโt agree more, but that medical issue that equates to debt here is a death sentence in other countries, plus we are living longer because of scientific advances but living longer increases the chances of a medical issue
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 15:32:00 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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Poopystink16 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:43:53 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What about compared to industrialized nations of the size of the US? Any examples of this ideal health care system in countries of close to 400 million and up?
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:10:48 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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Poopystink16 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:40:53 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You can compare anything to anything, you just wonโt derive much information from doing that. You can compare apples to oranges but wonโt learn very much except that they are different, but have some similarities like being a fruit and having seeds. What I mean by that is if you want to learn about apples, donโt study oranges, study apples. Yes there are a bunch of nations but thereโs also Macroeconomics. Size does matter.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:36:37 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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Poopystink16 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:39:54 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think the point here is that we attempt to make points to gain points...but Iโm losing points making points.
Points
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:12:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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racoonx ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:28:14 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Uh, thats not how economy of scale works, and we are talking about a service rather than a good. Economies of scale have there own upper limits, with diminishing returns turning to loss at a certain point, depending on the product.
That being said, the US system is complete shit in terms of dollar put in due to the large amount of the money paid going to administrative and bureaucratic costs of having to deal with insurance companies that almost every other developed nation in the world doesn't have.
TwinkleTheChook ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:58:49 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Our mortality rate has actually stagnated despite living in the most "medically advanced" nation in the world. There are 30 nations ahead of us in terms of life expectancy at this point. For a country that holds 40% of the world's wealth I think we can afford to do a liiittle better.
Poopystink16 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:02:53 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I meant mankind since the turn of the century. How many of these nations are the size in pop. Of the US?
TwinkleTheChook ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:49:41 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Are you suggesting that the size of our population would be detrimental to the effectiveness of universal healthcare? Does that mean smaller insurance companies are more successful than larger ones? I've never seen anyone explain this argument past "well we have more people."
Heck, if everyone's so touchy about "population" what about having 50 separate single-payer systems? Texas alone has the same amount of wealth as Canada and 10 million less people. Going by that logic, several states would be able to manage it just fine on their own. Unfortunately, some states (coughtheDeepSouthcough) are poor and rely on federal funding to get by. We're already paying for their healthcare in one form or another anyway. So why not just make it one universal system? What are your arguments against claims that healthcare costs will go down if that were implemented? We also can't ignore that the US spends almost 3k more per person on healthcare each year than the nation with the second most expensive system. Going back to our #31 spot on the global life expectancy list, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Poopystink16 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:00:54 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think 50 separate systems sounds great. Put the responsibility on the states and let them work it out. When systems get as large as universal healthcare, there is just too much money, too many people in administration, and too many people that actually need healthcare get lost in the numbers. The reason population is a constant factor here is because class systems are too extreme and it drains the whole system eventually because the middle class ends up paying for the majority of it and canโt support it
TwinkleTheChook ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:16:58 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So what happens to federal funding for the poorest states in the country? They continue receiving money under an entirely different system, or do they get shafted? Also, there have been proposals for single payer that don't put the burden on the middle class. That's not where our country's wealth is. Unfortunately they don't call the shots either, so of course those who do are going to make it look like the average joe is the one losing out.
Poopystink16 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:27:34 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thatโs a good question. I think one way to go would be reducing federal income tax for the individual and increasing state income tax On a sliding scale so there are fewer people to manage and the states can focus in locally on poverty issues or whatever issues are local to that state.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:46:57 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh right, I forgot, 3rd world countries still exist so we aren't allowed to join the rest of the modern western world.
Poopystink16 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:47:56 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What?
cthom412 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:58:17 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's not a dichotomy of either debt or death when most countries offer the choice of being treated without being ruined financially.
[deleted] ยท -22 points ยท Posted at 14:51:53 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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Haz3rd ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 15:01:04 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And maybe the earth isn't round, and maybe clouds actually are full of chemicals to control your mind
ThatRedGentleman ยท -14 points ยท Posted at 15:02:19 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes. because the right are the ones who deny science. Lmao, this is why I prefer lurking, it's nothing but a bubble full of idiots in the comments including me.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 15:16:32 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Republican party is the only major conservative party in the world that still denies climate change. What do liberals deny that even approaches this scale?
https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
___jamil___ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:40:53 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
i'm pretty liberal, but neither side has a monopoly on stupidity. unfortunately, a lot of dumb hippy dippy types are also anti-vaxxers
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:51:49 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The difference is we don't elect them.
I'm sick of the equivalency that since some rando liberals and celebrities are kooky, that's just as bad as actual fucking lawmakers
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:21:05 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And Trump has endorsed anti-vaxx shit too
___jamil___ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:10:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
well, i agree it's far worse if it's (federally) elected legislators, but i wouldn't want to minimize anti-vaxxer's impact prior to that level. whooping cough and other diseases are making a comeback because of those "randos". Unfortunately, there are enough of them that it's making a difference and perhaps one day they will have an elected representative. We cannot ignore them until it gets to that point, imo.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:13:50 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree, they're dumb jackasses and should be shut down. Luckily democrats are passing laws making vaccines mandatory.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:53:49 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sure, but that's not a valid comparison. Afaik those anti-vaxxers aren't senators. and I don't have exact polls but dont a majority of republicans deny human caused climate change? Anti-vaxxers probably struggle to be 1% among Democrats.
Edit: didn't Trump also endorse anti-vaxx nonsense?
___jamil___ ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:08:14 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
pretty solid points, can't argue with any of it really.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:18:39 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks. Though I looked it up, anti vaxxers are between 5-10% of the population! O.o
And the poll puts Dems at 9% vs 5% for Republicans (tho that's within margin of error).
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/02/09/heres-how-many-americans-are-actually-anti-vaxxers/?utm_term=.26038fe65057
SoloIsGodly ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:20:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wh...what? The right are absolutely the party of denying science. They keep trying to implement intelligent design teachings over evolution and are standing on an ever dwindling island of parties and people that deny climate change.
rdrptr ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:56:02 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Gender
SoloIsGodly ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:18:59 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Seems to be a common whipping boy in conservative rants these days, but you won't find a party or anyone on the left not a fringe element saying there's anything besides male, female and transexual people who make a change to still be within the male/female binary (thus not having anything but two genders).
So, elaborate if you're going to make claims instead of just saying one word. What specifically do you think 'the left' ignores science about on gender?
rdrptr ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:03:26 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Two chromosomes determine gender.
SoloIsGodly ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 08:07:59 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh okay, so you're just going to spit out 1-5 words and not actually engage in meaningful discussion while trying to engage or take partisan high ground. Gotcha, fun talk.
rdrptr ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:00:47 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Those are literally the only words that matter. Two chromosomes determine gender, and between them they form two stable combinations.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:53:15 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There are a number of genetic and hormonal disorders recognized by medical science that causes gender dysphoria or asexuality.
An easy one to understand is someone born "male" but with defective androgen receptors. So later in development the body is trying to produce all kinds of male hormones important for daily life and especially development during puberty but it's all to no effect.
rdrptr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:03:54 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Two chromosomes determine gender
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:44:08 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
...and you're back to denying science. Typical republican, feels over reals.
rdrptr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:42:48 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_sex-determination_system
WikiTextBot ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:42:58 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
XY sex-determination system
The XY sex-determination system is the sex-determination system found in humans, most other mammals, some insects (Drosophila), some snakes, and some plants (Ginkgo). In this system, the sex of an individual is determined by a pair of sex chromosomes (gonosomes). Females typically have two of the same kind of sex chromosome (XX), and are called the homogametic sex. Males typically have two distinct sex chromosomes (XY), and are called the heterogametic sex.
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[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:54:05 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genotype-phenotype_distinction
rdrptr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:51:47 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Agreed in terms of morphology and development. If there is a deviation from normal morphology and development, especially an unhealthy one (decreased function, harm to the individual), this would be considered a medical condition that should be treated to benefit the individual. I challenge you to find a non-intervention based, purely biological gender deviation in human beings that is not harmful to the individual.
In terms of behavior, there is no clear distinction between emotion, which can be subject to change, and inherent observable traits of an individual which can persist over time. This is psychology's domain, and psychology is a junk science.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:00:52 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't say the condition was beneficial. You think anybody who has serious gender dysphoria actually wants it? Deep down inside?
Anyway, let's start with baby steps. You're aware that people can be born with both male and female parts, right? Example: outward seeming female with undescended testicles.
rdrptr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:02:33 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Does it appear to you that I've made such a claim?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:36:05 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No.
You challenged me to find a beneficial condition.
rdrptr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:08:54 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Body dysmorphia is neurological.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:28:28 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That, and endocrine.
rdrptr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:55:37 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The correct treatment to this is most definitely not to mangle the patients genetals on their whim, nor is it to invent new genders to decieve them of their condition. The correct treatment is the treatment that reconciles their physical state.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:15:24 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, some of which would involve gene therapy or other treatments that are only on the distant horizon. How are you gonna treat a hormone imbalance if you don't even have working androgen receptors? Also, lots of that brain structure got laid down in the womb/very early development. How are you gonna change that?
rdrptr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:20:58 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Again, what you're suggesting is akin to changing the car battery when the headlight is burnt out. Intervening in areas other than root cause can only bring more suffering to the patient. We've established that body dysmorphia is neurological and hormonal. The patients dysfunctional mental state is not aligned with their functional physical state.
Hormone therapies exist to reconcile the patients mental state with the reality of their physical state.
Proper neurological therapies may not, but thats no excuse for enabling the patients disease by messing with parts of them that aren't broken, their genes and their sexual anatomy.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:28:14 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Once again, how are you gonna implement a hormonal therapy to be more like a man if they don't even have working androgen receptors? The bedrock of 'transitioning' is hormone therapy anyway.
The disease causes gender dysphoria. The dysphoria is the problem - your brain is female but you have a penis and have to act like a guy. Unless you're gonna tell me that male and female brains are identical. Fixing the dysphoria is admittedly fixing the symptoms instead of the cause, but afaik (there are quite a few causes) fixing the causes of dysphoria is beyond our current medical abilities. At this point, changing you to look like a woman to live how feels natural to your brain is the best we can do.
rdrptr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:36:39 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The fact that the patient no longer has the receptors does not entail that their functional components can't interpret the proper electrical signals. There's a plausible path to treatment here, experimental, but still plausible. And the fact that it isn't mainstream yet is certainly not an excuse to go about mutilating the patients sexual organs.
The disease is neurological and hormonal, not anatomical. If you're doing a major intervention such as gender reassignment, you aren't treating the disease. You aren't addressing root cause.
You're changing out a perfectly good car battery when you should change the burnt out headlight. You're enabling the patients dysfunction and aggravating their suffering.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:42:42 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What does that have to do with hormones? The endocrine system and CNS are two different things You're dodging the issue.
Also, the brain isn't just "electrical signals" that can be recoded like software. It's got discrete structures that create function, the most basic of which like gender were laid down in the womb. It's both macro structure like lobes, and the connection circuitry of neurons. You don't get it - much of the brain is anatomical. You can't just change all of that by just trying hard.
rdrptr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:01:16 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The body governs itself with an electro-chemical communications system. Information from the brain to the organs are continually translated between electrical and chemical signals. Glands are part of this system, they send chemical signals to other organs and glands. Where the natural system fails, we can intervene, either with artificial chemical messengers or with an electrical bypass. The body is fundamentally a mechanical and computational system.
Which leads me to my earlier point. When the patients computational anatomy is dysfunctionally out of alignment with the patients functional mechanical anatomy, why is the socially acceptable solution to intervene in the part of the patient that isn't actually broken?
Why are we swapping perfectly functional batteries when we should be trying to swap the broken headlights?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:19:43 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, endocrine and CNS are tightly intertwined. So what? They're not fully redundant, they are dependent on each other.
Not always. When your androgen receptors don't work, there is no alternative means of performing all the function of testosterone, and you cannot intervene with our current medical science. Are you suggesting the myriad of psychiatric disorders associated with chemical and hormone imbalances are fake? It's not just gender dysphoria.
Because it is quite often demonstrably broken, as with the androgen receptors, and we don't know how to fix it. You're still repeatedly denying science, there's nothing I can do if you choose to continue to put your head in the sand.
rdrptr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:34:13 on September 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Androgen receptors are the problem, not the patients sex organs. You can cause the patient a lot more harm by treating things that are not directly and concretely related to root cause.
For instance, reassigned genetals don't function well. Trans penises will never get as big as the real thing. Trans vaginas often have a problem with tissue necrosis.
Why? Because it simply isn't natural. And the result? Transexuals have a much, much higher suicide rate than the average population, especially during reassignment. The "cure" is worse than the disease.
The correct treatment is to realign the patients dysfunctional mental state to the reality of their functional physical state, not pursue unnecessary surgical intervention with parts of them that aren't actually broken.
It makes no sense to swap the battery when the problem is a burnt out headlight.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:46:50 on September 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, trans people have higher rates of suicide than the general population. It is not higher after treatment. It's understandable, really. Their conditions lead to depression, coming out leads to shunning by family and friends and general abuse by society, all things that lead to depression/suicide.
Once again, many of those things cannot be fixed currently. You deny science. This is a waste of my time, you continue to spout nonsense about cars and ignore the science. Predictable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality
WikiTextBot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:46:57 on September 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Causes of transsexuality
The study of the causes of transsexuality investigates gender identity formation of transgender people, especially those who are transsexual. Transsexual people have a gender identity that does not match their assigned sex, often resulting in gender dysphoria. The causes of transsexualism have been studied for decades.
The most studied factors are biological.
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rdrptr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:41:27 on September 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/psychiatry-expert-scientifically-there-is-no-such-thing-as-transgender
It is higher after reasignment, this has been demonstrated. But don't take my word for it.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/paul-mchugh-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solution-1402615120
https://fellowshipoftheminds.com/2015/06/06/the-truth-about-transgenderism-and-gender-reassigment-surgery/
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885
You are denying science.
Haz3rd ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:16:46 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"because the right are the ones who deny science"
Yeah you're right. What's the point you're trying to make?
SoldierZulu ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:43:39 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, they are literally the party that denies science. Next topic?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:54:49 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Elected Republicans officials push bills denying climate change, denying evolution, and believe vaccines cause autism.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:31:28 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think the reason you lurk is because nobody calls out your idiocy when you stay in your bubble.
ThatRedGentleman ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:35:17 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't stay in a bubble I have discussions with people I don't agree with, and I'm truly open to being convinced. The Dems HAVE brainwashed people, that's a fact, I'm not a conspiracy theorist in any way. I used to be a communist, I used to be a social dem, I used to think climate change might destroy the world just like you. I'm going to make one giant comment with my sourced retort to everything here soon.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:39:25 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wow so you're gonna discredit NASA and everyone else in one giant post?!
Just a warning: theblaze and infowars are not valid sources.
disgonbegood.jpg
image_linker_bot ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:39:48 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
disgonbegood.jpg
Feedback welcome at /r/image_linker_bot | Disable with "ignore me" via reply or PM
ThatRedGentleman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:45:20 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The fact you think I would reference internet magazines and not scholarly articles with proper peer review shows how much of a bubble you people really live in. Huffpost doesn't count either. I'm gonna say this once: statistics are deceiving, not all climate scientists agree to the scale of climate change you people purport, the science is not in and your claims have been proven wrong in the past. Stop making arguments from authority, "oh well NASA and my government overlords say it's true" SHOW ME THE DATA, proven correlations, etc. I try not to enjoy inflicting cognitive dissonance, but I don't think I'm gonna be able to help myself on this one.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:51:56 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
bitch, I already did
top_koala ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 15:08:34 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Denies objective reality and claims the other side is the one doing the brainwashing the very next sentence. Truly wonderful, the mind of a trumpet is.
ThatRedGentleman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:18:38 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"Objective reality" is what you call your leftist pseudoscience bubble.
top_koala ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:47:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's an improvement from "cunt" I guess
phpdevster ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:43:32 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Says the guy who supports a team that actively denies and censors actual science...
Do you have any clue how hilariously transparent your projection strategy is?
[deleted] ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 15:08:59 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
top_koala ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 15:09:29 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That was fast, I'm not even mad
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:03:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How does the earth sink into the ocean? like at some point there will just be a ocean floating in space? Or maybe after it absorbs all of earth it will absorb itself. My god, maybe this is how black holes are formed.
Also we are not dependent on the middle east for energy. lolololololol
ThatRedGentleman ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 15:08:37 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Al Gore said Florida should already be gone. It's not that I am denying the climate is warming, I'm just skeptical about the level of danger the left claims is going to happen. Science is not settled on this subject no matter how much the left repeats deceptive statistics.
Without fracking, we would be and you guys are trying to stop that. No matter how much you want every persons car and guns taken away, millions of Americans are gonna drive diesel trucks and that means we need oil. The Saudis have the oil.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:24:43 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
-Need oil to drive our cars
-Forced to rely on fracking
-Forced to depend on Saudi prince's for oil
-Republicans actively opposing renewable energy funding
Hmmm...
Swillyums ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:42:00 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wow, how is it that you've become so much smarter than the overwhelming majority of climate and NASA scientists!? If you've shown them to be so wrong, how isn't it you getting paid to tell us about the climate and send things into space. It certainly can't be pure hubris making you believe that you are more knowledgeable than 99% of people who have dedicated their lives to the study of climate.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:27:43 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Al Gore is part of the Illuminati sent to discredit real climate concerns, he is a figurehead to draw attention to the real shell game happening, the fact that the oceans are coming for our babies.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:26:07 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Al Gore said it would be underwater by 2017? Source?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:26:18 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
We don't buy much oil from Saudi Arabia though, we buy more from Mexico. It has nothing to do with fracking
JennyBeckman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:39:50 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you have some scientific sources that claim climate change is not a danger, can you please share them? I have not been able to find anything in Google and am genuinely curious why people are saying climate change is a partisan issue.
Swillyums ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:37:23 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
US isn't remotely dependent on middle Eastern energy. They get something like 3% of it from the Saudis. Most comes from Canada, and a great deal from south America.
Fewer talking points, more facts.
BubberDuckey ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 14:29:24 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He's not saying only the right do wrong, it's just a very common thing for many religious figures to claim to do no wrong.
frozenfire ยท -23 points ยท Posted at 14:33:11 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Religion is not the distinct to the right, either. The left moreso than anyone uses religion as a shield these days.
BubberDuckey ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 14:36:00 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Didn't say that either. Dude you need to fix your critical reading and writing. You keep making blanket statements like the left, the right do this and don't do that. And you keep pulling assumptions about what I'm saying from your ass. I said religious figures in general. As in all religious figures have the chance to use their given power for bad things and quite a few of them do just that. It's not political at all I'm speaking only of those in powerful positions.
WhaleDickNachos ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:42:19 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You accused that guy of making blanket statements, and then immediately made a statement about "religious figures in general." And yet you're the one criticizing his critical thinking and writing. The irony is hilarious.
BubberDuckey ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:44:06 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you could read I said what I'm talking about is "religious figures in general" as a way to show what a blanket statement is. I then broke it down into a very precise statement that claims facts that some religious figures in power take advantage of said power. That is 100% fact.
WhaleDickNachos ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:45:46 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Certain individuals in positions of power do bad things? Holy shit what a revelation. You're a genius for figuring that out.
That's clearly not what you meant.
BubberDuckey ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:46:58 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's exactly what I meant. That's why I said some of those who can do that, will sometimes do it. Like that's just how things work it's simple. If someone can do something there's a chance they will.
Edit: I'm also not claiming to be a genius or even smart just stating the obvious because some people need that.
frozenfire ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 14:37:46 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is what was originally said. It's pretty clearly a political statement.
BubberDuckey ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:39:03 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It is a political statement that I didn't make my guy. Look at his username and mine they are different. Are you really this naรฏve?
frozenfire ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 14:40:34 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Your response to this is very odd. You defended the statement directly, and then went off on me for my first reply in the thread. You should calm down.
dangolo ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 14:40:05 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Will conservatives give us a refund for the massive waste that was the war in Afghanistan?
WhaleDickNachos ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:47:10 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What does this have to do with my comment?
platypocalypse ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:08:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Will conservatives please stop trying to rob all Americans of the meager scraps of healthcare with which we've finally been provided?
WhaleDickNachos ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:43:11 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Again, what does this have to do with my comment? You people are weirdos, it's like you hear people saying things that they don't actually say just so you can have something to argue against
platypocalypse ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:53:17 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Will conservatives please stop using Christian extremism as an excuse to push their agenda on unsuspecting bystanders?
WhaleDickNachos ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:54:49 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You've already made it clear that you're not a sane person, you don't have to keep going
platypocalypse ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:48:44 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Will conservatives please stop putting 98% of the federal budget into the military when our military is already five times bigger than the next biggest one and millions of Americans don't have access to basic things like education, healthcare, food, housing, or clean water?
WhaleDickNachos ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:31:54 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And why is it a bad idea to invest heavily in the military right now?
Oh shit my bad, I forgot you can't answer questions you just yell shit over and over
platypocalypse ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:02:32 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why is it a bad idea to take 0.01% of the military's budget - a couple of billion dollars - and actually invest in something that will benefit American society, such as education?
[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 15:08:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Like the one Crooked H was in favor of?
SoldierZulu ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:46:43 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I hardly think that now, 8 months later, there's any moral authority whatsoever remaining on the right to call the other side crooked.
___jamil___ ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:41:49 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, the one that GWB started and gave no clear vision for how to actually achieve victory
Haz3rd ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 15:03:14 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
conservatives try multiple times to take away healthcare from people
Look how evil those liberals are
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:01:08 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Republicans 2008:
Republicans 2017:
thegoddessofchaos ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 14:27:28 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone does wrong, we all know that, stop getting defensive.
[deleted] ยท 33 points ยท Posted at 14:33:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The whole "but they do it too" argument has been being made a lot lately. DAE both parties are the same?
rederic ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 14:35:56 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm just waiting the day they shift the narrative to "Trump campaigned as a Democrat candidate."
[deleted] ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 14:40:26 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I promise you when they finally jump off the sinking ship, it will be brought up that Trump was a registered Democrat and donated to the Clinton foundation. There's already been conspiracies thrown out that he's a plant by Soros to take down the Republican party from the inside. The lunacy these dildos will believe is astonishing.
Not_Without_My_Balls ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:52:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Who? Who thinks this? Are you judging millions of people based on what you read on a single r/conspiracy post? Does any credible conservative believe this or are you just mud slinging to feed your own ego?
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 14:59:09 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was far more than once but I'm not about to scour /r/the_donald and /r/conspiracy just to vindicate myself. Just because you aren't a total loon who believes all sorts of whacked out nonsense doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people who share your political ideology who are.
Not_Without_My_Balls ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 15:11:54 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you really think those two subs represent conservatism you really shouldn't be having political conversations. And are you saying there aren't people on the left who believe in whacked out nonsense?
Because I've got 72 genders to show you.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:19:55 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When did I say they were the sole representation of conservatism? But you can't just pretend that they don't exist and that they aren't a mouthpiece for some of the more extremist conservative viewpoints. If the left has to own ANTIFA and SJWs, the right needs to start owning the Alex Jones watchin, tinfoil hat wearing tea partiers too.
thegoddessofchaos ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:59:05 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That argument gets us nowhere
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:01:32 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Neither does the "but I haven't seen it so it must not exist" argument.
thegoddessofchaos ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:09:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. Both extreme sides use it and it's infuriating
anaconda386 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:34:28 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think you've consumed a few too many whale dick nachos
Llamada ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:37:43 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Whataboutism is literally russian propaganda...
WhaleDickNachos ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:41:53 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What a salient point you've articulated for us there Llamada. Good job.
Gingevere ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 15:21:23 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Until now that's what I've always heard as the Clinton playbook.
Though per the Clinton playbook Douggar has already broken rule #1 which is do not address the situation in any way at all.
[deleted] ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 15:39:59 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
_YouDontKnowMe_ ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:06:26 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Go back to t_d, kid. Grown folks are talking.
Rubberbabybuggybum ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 14:53:44 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
His religion/cult has taught him his entire life that women are only there to please and serve men.
Of course not.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:02:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
religionofpeace
Happy-days ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:40:05 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Do you honestly think he said this exact quote? If you do, you need some more critical thinking
[deleted] ยท 806 points ยท Posted at 14:00:31 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This isn't really mildly infuriating. It's like really infuriating
Pulsecode9 ยท 258 points ยท Posted at 14:13:26 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'd say it's grounds for harsher punishment. It marks him as definitely at risk of re-offending, and entirely unrepentant to boot.
vicarofyanks ยท 74 points ยท Posted at 15:03:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
True, clearly he has no control. The devil could rear his ugly head anytime. We can't put the public at risk of exposure to this conduit of evil!
limitedimagination ยท 76 points ยท Posted at 14:35:31 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
r/rage
TolstoysMyHomeboy ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 16:56:49 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's also bs constructed to make you feel that way. Does that infuriate you?
TundieRice ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:35:49 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Mildly.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 05:15:09 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:32:18 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Copying something from below, cred u/happywaffle
Dreadedsemi ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:56:19 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. what's mildly infuriating is this sub's style. it's hard to read the replies.
object-overflow ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:34:14 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's more like really really infuriating.
RufusMcCoot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:24:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's also fucking fake.
DylanMorgan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:57:06 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, it belongs in /r/massivelyfuckinginfuriating.
Powerfury ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:58:19 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I am here just to say that I really hate this tilt on the comment section.
I'm impressed, but tilted.
happywaffle ยท 653 points ยท Posted at 14:17:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I find misleading clickbait headlines, and people who share them, to be equally infuriating. The original article is here, and its source is a reference (not a link) to another website, which in turn quotes an "unnamed source." That source's quote is:
So the headline is bullshit; Duggar didn't make any such claim. Some other anonymous person said that about him. EDIT: And even that person said "external forces," which is quite different than "the devil."
(Duggar is, of course, still a piece of shit.)
mattmaddux ยท 167 points ยท Posted at 14:46:49 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is important. He's obviously a piece of garbage. But we need to be as critical of things that support our beliefs as we are of things that don't.
NinjaLanternShark ยท 42 points ยท Posted at 15:21:45 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes this. Thank you.
If everyone's just lying and deceiving each other and reinforcing their existing beliefs, nothing improves.
GCKilla54 ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 15:16:55 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's not how this cesspool works.
killxgoblin ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:06:17 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If we arenโt critical, then our side loses credibility. We should never allow embellishment just to make us feel good. I like your point
NinjaLanternShark ยท 131 points ยท Posted at 15:33:06 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ummm....
So, not only did he not say what OP said he said, but he did accept responsibility.
Again -- he's a creep and a douchebag. But we seriously need to do better than making up and repeating stories because it reinforces our existing beliefs.
Zoltrahn ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 16:09:26 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There is already a mountain of reasons to hate Duggar. We don't need to make up new ones.
Michamus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:15:34 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The closest I can find is this source where he says he allowed Satan to "build a fortress in his heart". Like you said, that's a far cry from saying "The devil made me do it."
r4nd0md0od ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:39:50 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"I too would never apologize for beating Duggar's ass because I too thought that external forces were to blame."
-- Some Anon source, probably.
bullsaint ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 15:16:53 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I actually did some digging as well and came to the same conclusion. It's seriously link for source after link.
Good investigating! Let's stop clickbaity stories, even though the dude is a massive piece of shit.
incredibletulip ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:42:20 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I already knew before I even went to the comment section that this was fake news. Thanks for confirming.
no-running ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:08:09 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks for this. I saw the headline send my bullshit detector immediately went off.
The guy is shitty enough as is, why do we need to resort to fake news to discredit him?
happywaffle ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:09:35 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That really puts a button on why this annoys me so much. Folks who defend him have to make stuff up. We donโt.
Noshamina ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:01:38 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean It's Interpretation doesn't seem that far off too me and I am a huge fan of critical thinking
happywaffle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:21:57 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, itโs not interpretation. Itโs a baseless statement about another person from an anonymous source. Literally anyone could say anything about anyone by your standard.
Noshamina ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:20:16 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I guess it totally hinges on how credible that anonymous source is and it doesn't exactly look like they are willing to part with that knowledge on this very opinionated piece.
Given if it were true that he won't apologize and he did claim that external forces made him do all those things, then it wouldn't be a stretch to think he was talking about the devil considering his religious upbringing, yet it all hinges on that and you are right that it's not enough to be credible.
But after you molest that many people and your entire community and family recognized you did it, you don't get a lot of breaks from other people dragging your name through the mud.
Z0MGbies ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:23:18 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What else would those forces be though? Unless it's something physical, tangible, and you can take picture if it, then it makes no difference whether it was "the devil", God or in between
happywaffle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:20:54 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Iโm talking about external factors that ARE physical. Something in his upbringing for example. The โdoesnโt specify anything supernatural.
SenorDarcy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:15:32 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit should really have a report option for deceptive headlines, it's really frustrating
nerdgamergurl420 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:18:40 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Equally infuriating? Equally infuriating. You find clickbait equally infuriating as a man (presumably) refusing to apologize for molesting his children.
I understand that this is more a Reddit turn-of-phrase and not something you actually meant, but think about this. You wrote that you find clickbait equally as infuriating as the idea of an unrepentant child molester. Okay.
happywaffle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:19:43 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It sounds like you DONโT understand that I was simply using a turn of phrase.
nerdgamergurl420 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:22:45 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My point is that maybe you want to think about what cliche phrases you're spouting off. It's not really an established turn of phrase, it's just something you see people write on Reddit all the time. It just always cracks me up when I see someone go "yeah hmm that clip of animal abuse is pretty bad, but I'm equally mad that this is a repost". I kind of dilutes the meaning of what you're saying, and it's also pretty damn dismissive of the actual issue at hand.
foxinyourbox ยท 147 points ยท Posted at 14:12:30 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just a heads up, he never actually said that statement.
NinjaLanternShark ยท 40 points ยท Posted at 16:06:31 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He also did in fact accept responsibility and apologize:
Twelve years ago, as a young teenager, I acted inexcusably for which I am extremely sorry and deeply regret, [...] I hurt others, including my family and close friends
Edit: clean up quote
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:19:55 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He "accepted responsibility" with cheap words and worthless apologies. He should be rotting in prison.
NinjaLanternShark ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:17:11 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sure he should. But him being a creep doesn't justify posting and repeating news stories that aren't factually correct.
TransverseMercator ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 17:38:33 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So this is actual fake news.
Great job reddit.
chalkiest_studebaker ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 14:43:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The source goes on to explain that while Duggar will discuss sexually abusing his underage sisters as well as his marital infidelities and pornography addiction, he will not apologize for his actions, because the devil made him do it:
Josh will cover everything and he will maintain the family line that god has saved his soul and guided him back to the right path. But one thing you probably wonโt hear is that heโs actually sorry, as he believes that external forces were to blame for his behavior.
foxinyourbox ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:49:37 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, it was speculation that never came true (the part about the devil).
Jimminess ยท 288 points ยท Posted at 13:25:10 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sometimes I wish that the party of personal responsibility would hold themselves personally responsible for their actions.
phpdevster ยท 87 points ยท Posted at 14:32:18 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's all projection and blustering. All of it.
They create this false image of an idealized version of themselves to mask how grotesque they really are.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:47:48 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They literally do the teen girl trying to manipulate people deal, and it works. Say what you think they want to hear, not the truth.
Debtastical ยท 55 points ยท Posted at 14:32:37 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
hahaha. If youโre white, male, Christian thatโs as responsible as you ever need to be. Everything else is everyone elseโs fault. ESPECIALLY women. In Josh Duggars case, the devil sleeping girls. They were asking for it. Probably werenโt even modestly dressing.... since they were sleeping and all.
Srsly. Fuck this guy.
[deleted] ยท 50 points ยท Posted at 15:06:57 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"White, Christian males are the single most oppressed group in America."
That is a direct quote from someone I'm arguing with in /r/cringeanarchy
A lot of these people have a warped perception of reality that really makes them feel better about themselves. If you try to argue with them they just make accusations and deny responsibility. It's super weird.
QueenAlpaca ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 15:35:00 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I actually unfriended an acquaintance recently because he was also doing that weird sort of mental gymnastics. In the same paragraph on some minor political meme I posted (in support of Muslims), he proclaimed how awful Muslims were and how all they teach is killing in their mosques (funny that, he couldn't answer when someone else asked if he actually sat in during one of their services to provide this sort of knowledge), while saying his religion taught him to love.
Uh
I don't know how he deals with that glaring dissonance. I try to keep friends and acquaintances no matter their political/religious outlooks to keep my head in the game, but he was a bit too much after I asked him to behave several times. It got to the point that my other more level-headed friends were getting into arguments with him. He also whines about "not finding a good Christian girl" while talking shit about them like a typical red piller.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:49:59 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I have stopped speaking to friends for the same reason.
Also, the reason I am so quick to defend Muslims is i have actually been to a mosque and sat in a service, just like you describe. I am an atheist and I had to interview the imam of a nearby mosque for a project in college. I was fucking terrified. Guess what though? They were the kindest, most-welcoming group of people I've ever met - they didn't care that I was an atheist (I told them) they were just happy that a non-Muslim was there to learn about their culture. They all wanted to meet me, give me free food, introduce me to their families, etc. Every single one of them thanked me for coming to the mosque because I gave them the chance to prove that they were a normal, caring group of people.
Muslims in America draw unfair attention from biased people who don't know anything about Islam or modern Muslims. I used to be one of those biased people...I would have never realized it if I hadn't visited the mosque. Reddit is full of those people - they never had to confront their bias against Muslims, so they believe they're unbiased people, but really they show tremendous bias and hate towards Islam. It's especially bad from certain pious redditors, they spew hateful, untrue shit about Islam in these anti-Muslim echo chambers, it's disgusting. These people don't know any real Muslims and they don't know what Islam really teaches, they just repeat whatever hateful shit people say. Like, THERE ARE TONS of redditors who believe all Muslims are violent extremists, it's insane. Then they act like Christianity is some wildly different religion that has never inspired violence, if you bring up the crusades or burning people at the stake they just gloss over it like it's nothing. Idk how to deal with that
QueenAlpaca ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:35:02 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You nailed it. What also kills me about this guy's hatred is that we live in a community where there's a large population of Senegalese. Guess what their core religion is? That's right--Islam. I've worked side by side with these people for the last four years and they've been kind as could be, like any other normal person. The ones closer to my age love to share their heritage, they showed me pictures of their families back home. The fact that he walks the same streets and stores as them daily while spouting such hatred absolutely kills me. There's more to this guy than being a generic American (he's from the Netherlands), but it's almost scary how close-minded he is for being such a proud Christian.
This shit always gets me on a roll, but I'll stop for now lmao. I just don't get the hate, I really don't. Bad people come in all forms.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:04:41 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
/r/cringeanarchy is a texbook example of alt-right cowards who resort to "it's just a joke man!" because they don't want to be responsible for being pieces of shit.
They put
"sub Reddit room for alt right trolls" as their title as a 'joke' but it's completely true.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:08:50 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's sad. It sucks that those people are all so hateful.
zjt2846 ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 15:17:01 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you're arguing with them there, you know that person is super representative of white Christian males. Very generalizable. Keep getting us good data!
ChrisS97 ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 15:19:44 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He never said that guy is representative of all white Christian males.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:22:20 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks for looking out for me, fam
zjt2846 ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 15:22:34 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
True. He just implied it and then drew a direct connection to "a lot of these guys." You're right, I should've ignored the heart of his argument and accepted his point on technicality.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:28:01 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Where? Show me exactly where I did that, because, I think that's just your personal misinterpretation of my words.
I said "a lot of these people," I didn't say "every white Christian male in America." Your bias is showing.
zjt2846 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:39:26 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I would truly love to hear what you think my bias is. I promise I'll tell you what I really think after you guess.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:57:06 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sure!
I criticized some white Christian males. You interpreted that as an attack on all white Christian males. The most likely reason for you to interpret my words that way is that you felt personally attacked by what I said - in other words, you felt like my criticism was directed at you, even though it wasn't. This leads me to believe you're a white, Christian male. If that is the case, then you have the bias of a white, Christian male.
I don't know you, though, so I could be wrong. Can't imagine another reason you would misinterpret my words though. I think you've got a personal interest in this conversation, and, you're getting a little defensive ;)
Also, you ignored my question. Where did I imply that I was talking about all white Christian males? Seems to me I was talking about one white Christian male, as well as referencing others like that one guy, but I never said anything about "all" white Christian males.
zjt2846 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:59:31 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In reply to a comment that said something to the effect of white Christian males don't like to take responsibility for their actions, you state that "a lot of these people" have warped perspectives and so on. This sounds to me like you're making the claim that a lot of a people group (white Christian males) have a warped perspective.
I admit that your isolated comment moreso implies that "a lot of these people" applies to people who specifically hold the belief you mentioned. But in the context of the thread, I maintain that it's easy to read that to apply more generally.
And you are wrong on my bias. My bias is against inflammatory comments that lazily generalize and make things unnecessarily racist or political. I think this Duggar guy seems like a real piece of scum. I don't know why conservatives and white guys have to come into it.
I think conversations should focus on people shouldn't make excuses, that this behavior is inexcusable, that what he's done is terrible, that it's awful what has happened to the victims, etc.
If you didn't mean white Christian males, then I don't have a problem with jyour stance. But you should choose your word carefully in threads like this. Because there is a lot of racist and negative political commentary on this thread, and in the context, your comment reads quite similar.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:12:24 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Fair enough :D
You're not a white, Christian male?
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:22:02 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You're doing the same thing the other guy is doing - putting words in my mouth and drawing false meaning. I never said that the guy I'm talking to is representative of ALL Christian males, my whole point is that he's WRONG about himself and others. All I'm trying to do is talk some sense into him.
You are an overly sensitive person.
zjt2846 ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 15:38:04 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Based on our comments, I must say you seem to be much more upset and defensive. I wonder which of us is more sensitive?
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:54:47 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Definitely you.
You were triggered by criticism directed towards some (not all) white Christian males. Now you're trying to deflect the blame for this by accusing me of being sensitive. Let's just recap how our conversation went - I said "you are overly sensitive," and your reply was "NUH UH, YOU'RE SENSITIVE, NOT ME!"
Let me know what I can do to better accommodate your sensitive needs ;)
zjt2846 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:49:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Please tell me you see the irony in ^ this comment?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:11:18 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You're looking for ways to shut me down and it's not gonna work ;)
zjt2846 ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 14:50:05 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, let's compare this criminal to large population of people and imply they're all like that! I just wish I had a broader brush...
Schrodingers_Nachos ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:05:46 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Identity politics is such a fun scapegoat to addressing problems
eternalexodus ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:40:43 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Youโre asking too much of the mouthbreathers. In fact, even asking them to breathe is too much to ask. We should ask them to stop.
im_an_infantry ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:13:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How about everybody does that.
skarro- ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:39:29 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sometimes I wish commenters would check sources.
RufusMcCoot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:25:43 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Are you actually shoehorning molestation into the republican platform?
bobafelty ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 14:20:29 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Pretty sure finger banging your underage sisters against their will while they sleep is wrong in any religion. He should be in jail.
NinjaLanternShark ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 16:14:51 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wow - know why he's not? Statute of limitations is only 7 years.
Looks like there was a Change.org petition seeking to get that statute eliminated.
I'm no expert and I guess statutes are supposed to serve a real purpose, but 7 years sure doesn't seem like enough, especially when you're talking about children.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:03:54 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
bobafelty ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:39:07 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He was a jr or sr in high school and his youngest victim was 9.
volabimus ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 15:20:54 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sharing a cell with Lena Dunham.
JulianneLesse ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:22:28 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wouldn't that be a cruel and unusual punishment for him though?
SvenHudson ยท 96 points ยท Posted at 13:38:45 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There is nothing mild about this.
Brother_Andrei ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:04:26 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Even more infuriating... Du Pont family heir gets only 4 months probation for raping his 3 year old daughter because "he wouldnt do well in prison!" Disgusting... if you think our justice system is fair, think again! One of many sources: www.nydailynews.com/amp/news/crime/woman-sues-ex-husband-du-pont-heir-dodged-prison-raping-3-year-old-daughter-article-1.1740180
Edit:Typo
shorthair_becky ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:56:37 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why is every DuPont family member so god damn weird
dinosauramericana ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:48:50 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Inbreeding
Brother_Andrei ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:13:40 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lol why are all the super rich people super wierd? Look what a tobacco family did to their own children as well... https://www.abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/billionaire-twins-abused-slaves-doris-duke-heir-father/story%3fid=19853671
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 14:42:39 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is from anonymous source talking to InTouch Weekly about what she thinks he thinks. This probably the most bullshit thing Iโve seen on Reddit in a while.
Get pissed off at a guy for diddling kids, not this garbage.
Bizmark_86 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:25:32 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This isn't mildly infuriating, this is straight up angering
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:41:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
MILDLY???
mexicanred1 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:39:47 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
tell me this is clickbait
quinson93 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:06:51 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It is. There's no direct source he said what the article claims.
๐๏ธ DOC360noscope ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:40:06 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm so sorry
Voidsabre ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:42:00 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It is clickbait though, he didn't say this. An anonymous source who claims to know him said that's something he would probably say
James_Locke ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:48:10 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It is clickbait asshole. It is a false story.
๐๏ธ DOC360noscope ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:49:02 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well then I guess there's a different kind of infuriating.
James_Locke ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:54:06 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Don't be part of the problem. Delete the post as it is false. You have your karma already.
Well_actuallyyy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:41:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is not from a credible report. I find that infuriating. Went looking for source and it's nonexistent.
Melchiah_III ยท 36 points ยท Posted at 13:45:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The only thing crazier than having an invisible friend is having an invisible enemy.
DSteep ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 14:00:32 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Josh Duggar can get fucked.
Preferably by an older relative.
Goodlittlewitch ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 14:07:25 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's a decently high likelihood of that already, really.
gishlich ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:18:38 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Mildly?
๐๏ธ DOC360noscope ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:19:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't find any other subreddit for infuriating things
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:17:26 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
r/rage
gishlich ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:21:16 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Guess we need a r/wildlyinfuriating.
dirice87 ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 15:19:04 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So much about everyone involved with them is sickening.
Fuck his dad for not reporting the abuse immediately and instead 'discplining at home', then a whole year later went to church elders instead of police
Fuck the church elders who simply sent Josh away to a different city as punishment
FUCK the family friend and state trooper Jim Hutchens who not only broke the law by not reporting the abuse when told, but justified himself by saying he gave Josh a 'stern talking to'. and FUCK HIM IN THE ASS for actually being a pedophile in his own right http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3102655/The-sickening-pedophile-crimes-Duggars-state-trooper-friend-failed-properly-investigate-eldest-son-Josh-molestation-young-girls.html
FUCK TLC for rebranding and renewing the show as Counting On despite knowing ALL of this.
So many failures by all these people to do the basic decent thing, but instead self served their interests instead of protect young children. Fuck them all.
Voidsabre ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:52:58 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A 14 year old who rapes girls close to his age is not a pedophile. Rapist? Yes. Criminal? Also yes. Creep? Without a doubt. But not a pedophile in the traditional sense
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:10:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
Voidsabre ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:15:57 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's speculation, I was just trying to bring up facts
shifa_xx ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 07:53:30 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I know you were on the facts. I was just trying to bring up the scenario where the facts would mean he could have got more severe consequences than what we know he ended up getting.
DoctorDiabeetuscake ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:42:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Funny how he and his family says gays and trans people will molest children so we have to take away their rights. But oh no it's ok when he does it because it wasn't his fault....
Jguy97 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:54:55 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
As a Christian myself his logic is incredibly flawed. Yes, Satan does encourage sin, but however it's up to man to act upon those temptations. "โThe temptations in your life are no different from what others experience. And God is faithful. He will not allow the temptation to be more than you can stand. When you are tempted, he will show you a way out so that you can endure.โ โญโญ1 Corinthiansโฌ โญ10:13โฌ โญNLTโฌโฌ
unresolved-lurker ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:42:35 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Way to not take any personal responsibility for your perversions.
wittlewayne ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:58:07 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
๐๐คฃ๐๐คฃ๐๐คฃ hands down funniest thing iโve seen said today !! ohh Onion youโre the best..... wait....
Voidsabre ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:21:53 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is a fake quote, he didn't say this. Might as well be the onion
SteroidSandwich ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:12:40 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"It's not my fault! It's what I believe!"
Someone is going to make a religion where punching people in the face is a norm and it will become law because beliefs.
totsnotbritneyspears ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:34:20 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Way to make Arkansas look like jackasses guys
๐
FxHVivious ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:54:20 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I tried to use this excuse once when I was 6 and lied to my parents. My dad still kicked my ass.
5years8months3days ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:54:37 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Check mate atheists!
Hans_Delbruck ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:13:33 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Then perhaps an exorcism is called for? He just admitted he is controlled by Satan.
MrAppleSpiceMan ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:46:47 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Come on, Josh. The devil and his demons tempt us, but we are also naturally drawn to sin anyway. It's our nature. The Lord gives us the ability to resist sin. Forgot the passage, but it's something like He will not let us be tempted beyond our own ability. You have all the power to say no to your temptations. If you molest a kid, that's on you. It's not the devil that did it, it might not even be the devil that tempted you to do it. You decided to not resist, and you molested. That's how it works. You can't shift the blame
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:13:34 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How is this only mildly infuriating? It's horrendous. I thought this sub was for the little things that bug people. Not human fucking turds who molest children.
rphillips11 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:37:53 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What a dirty cunt of a human.
EisVisage ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:52:57 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's not mildly but r/majorlyinfuriating though...
DenniePie ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:23:54 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"Bigly"
SpeedDart1 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:23:58 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"Mildly" haha yea, no.
Antierror ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:21:31 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This doesn't belong here; this is not "mildly" infuriating
casemodsalt ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:27:36 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wow I didn't realize I can blame all my mistakes on the devil! I'll never get fired!
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:37:27 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I haven't found this on a single credible web source.
But it's still fun to wish him death.
Rachelle1016 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 05:02:25 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Please donโt think this is how Christians actually are. This is horrifying and wrong, and absolutely not what Christians actually believe.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 05:48:31 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ahhhhhh ha ha what an awesome cunt
billypancakes ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:02:09 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
THEN APOLOGIZE FOR NOT BEING STRONG ENOUGH TO "RESIST SATAN", YOU FUCK-BUCKET.
Either way, you fucked up big time.
idma ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:55:38 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
guys, guys, i know what he did is an asshole move, but please, please, please, please don't take this as THE only impression you'll have on religion. He's an asshole, just keep it at that. NOT the religion. He's just using it as a crutch. If Jesus/Muhammad/Ghandi/flying-spagetti-monster/joseph smith/God/Nicholas Cage were to see this they would be like "yo, dude, keep me out of this"
AnotherSchool ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:23:10 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lol Nic Cage
w0rdd ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:14:35 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
lol religion
The_BenL ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:17:57 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, it's definitely not the ONLY impression I have of religion. It's one of many many MANY shitty impressions of religion I have.
Viperreis ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:39:39 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
r/extremelyinfuriating
Sormaj ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:20:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is less "mildly infuriating" and more "absolutely disgusting"
Voidsabre ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:21:03 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He didn't say this, an anonymous source who CLAIMS they know him said that's probably something he would say. Josh Duggar is a piece of garbage, but so is whoever made this fake quote. You don't need lies to show how much of a creep he is
JakeTheSnake134 ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 14:54:50 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
ahhhh. Gotta love fundamentalist Christianity. Their logic makes sense 100% of the time.
/s
Voidsabre ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:54:02 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He didn't even say this, it's a fake quote. His actions are disgusting and inexcusable, but he has shown remorse and hasn't said anything along the lines of "the devil made me do it"
oppressedkekistani ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:01:16 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Of course he shifts the blame from himself to something else.
Not_Without_My_Balls ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:47:34 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
https://i.imgur.com/bYPALMm.jpg
Come_To_r_Polandball ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:47:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I just threw up a little bit in my mouth.
oppressedkekistani ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:07:02 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Perfect! ๐๐๐
Beastabuelos ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 13:34:41 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
While this is dumb, the fact that people desire an "apology" is stupid too. It's words. Him saying or not saying "I'm sorry" doesn't change shit.
BonzaiThePenguin ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 14:08:12 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Genuinely being sorry for something is an important step of rehabilitation, which is a pretty big change. If the devil made him do something before it can make him do something again.
Bassmaster888 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:11:12 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Key word being genuine. If dude says the devils to blame he sees himself as guiltless, an apology is close to an admission of guilt.
Ferro_Giconi ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:12:08 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I've always hate seeing apologies by public figures because of this. I don't want them to waste time and effort on a scripted PR apology that someone else write, I want them to fix what they messed up. But I know they are forced to because other people don't view it the same way I do.
Beastabuelos ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:23:41 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yea, I'm the same way. Sometimes I wish there was a way I could make people see my point of view. Oh well, what are you going to do ยฏ\_(ใ)_/ยฏ
and_one_more_thing ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:58:59 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
โIโm sorryโ is not an apology. Itโs an expression of pity. An apology expresses regret, empathy, and an assurance that the action in question will not happen again.
Beastabuelos ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:08:24 on September 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So if you accidentally hit someone what do you say? Sorry
squishysquishh ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:51:12 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm so glad this crazy family is no longer on television.
xAxlx ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 13:59:12 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They are. They have a spinoff currently airing called "Counting On."
xcasandraXspenderx ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:58:15 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Think they have a new show of some sort
squishysquishh ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:33:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't see how they're allowed to do that (I'm not doubting you, just flabbergasted). Especially when it was brought to light that the parents knew what was happening at the time and helped cover it up.
TheDeltaLambda ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:46:40 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because most people who watch the show either don't know or care about this situation.
And TLC is going to milk this family for all they can, just like they did with the Goslings.
squishysquishh ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:49:06 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How sad. I can't imagine how hard it is for the daughters who were molested to be in the lime light and on public television and act like they're family is so wonderful.
xcasandraXspenderx ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:53:57 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I seriously see that dad being a mega dick off camera
squishysquishh ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:56:12 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I get that vibe too. He comes across as aggressively controlling.
xcasandraXspenderx ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:53:28 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Someone should fact check me lol. I have no clue if I'm correct. I totally agree. I mean dude molested his SISTERS for years, and he is probably gonna be a dad to at least a couple girls seeing that they think babies=salvation. Pretty fucked imo
squishysquishh ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:55:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Super fucked!! I hope his kids are ok :(
xcasandraXspenderx ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:00:35 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I hope dudes wife gets her wits about her and leaves his ass. The institutional attitude w folks like this is that the man has the last word. Surely she could carve out a career for her self and become self sufficient, and I hope she does. It really really makes me so fucking mad that a religion can kids go through hell and not even validate their pain. By letting this guy go, it reinforces him and devalidates all his victims. Shit like THIS, however outlandish a sect of people, is why I will always call myself a feminist. Dudes like this shouldn't get away with it. And Women shouldn't stand there and take it.
shifa_xx ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:17:51 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think his wife would ever be leaving him. She just gave birth to baby #5 a few weeks ago, and she has no education or job to bring up 5 kids on her own. Which is sad because it means she'll be stuck with that looser for the rest of her life, most likely having more of his babies :(
squishysquishh ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:21:31 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, he's a child molester and he's been caught having an affair using the old Ashley Madison site. I don't know what else he could do. I just think his wife lacks self respect.
xcasandraXspenderx ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:29:04 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
At face value, yeah I totally agree w that statement. But she has been manipulated for a long time(her whole life) that this religion deal is the be all end all. The amount of shaming and shunning that is done to people who leave these sort of semi-cult religions is just cruel. She likely believes that (probably rightly so) that she won't be able to see her family or friends if she leaves. And Also, most money is probably in his name, meaning running may be easier said than done. We don't know this woman's struggles. I don't understand why she would stay but I always settle on trying to empathize bc it's gotta be a tough spot she's in.
Jguy97 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:11:17 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So, wait. What religion are these guys in? Christianity does not shun people that leave it, Jehovah's Witnesses do, and they shun the family members that don't as well. I don't know about Mormons though.
xcasandraXspenderx ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:16:47 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I believe it's fundamentalist Christians? I'm not entirely sure. I think w mormons it depends on how intense they are. Fundementalist Mormans(FLDS) do shun, but they are the ones who have compounds and shit. I just think that she wouldn't leave him bc of perceived repercussions to her and her kids. she probably popped out #5 as some sick test to see if her pedo husband was 'cured' or some shit
Jguy97 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:17:50 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But Fundamentalist Christians don't shun. So, I have no idea.
xcasandraXspenderx ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:21:16 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Particular families might.
Jguy97 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:25:41 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe, even if they did that would be going against Christian teaching. (Been Christian for 5 years, parents were before I was born, so I can confirm that it must be some sort of wackiness idea that they cooked up. Yes Christianity sometimes does support ostracism, but that is only done after confronting the person in question, over sin, and even then, that confrontation comes over willing, intentional habitual sin, such as adultery, drug use, being a drunk, and then refusing to change their ways after being confronted by 1. A fellow Christian, 2. Three Christians, and then 3. They still refuse after being confronted by the Church about it. The whole point of it is to show a Christian that is refusing to leave sin, that it's not good, and that God has no communion with sin.
shifa_xx ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:14:45 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well apparently it's not got Josh in it like the previous show did. The new show is only based on some of the other (married) kids of that family. As long as Josh isn't starting in it people generally wouldn't care I guess.
dangolo ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:46:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why isn't he in jail yet?
owg123 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:52:26 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
r/rage
PinesInTheSky ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:10:18 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No accountability. Sick of this shit
FightGar ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:25:35 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yea but does he like wet ribs or dry rub ribs?
winningelephant ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:06:17 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In what universe is this only mildly infuriating?
kevkev667 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:24:57 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Is the point of this post to subtly imply that Mike Huckabee approves of this message? Picture was obviously taken before the scandal news came out.
_waldeinsamkeit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:03:06 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
โmildly infuriatingโ
walshk8 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:04:16 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
More like "wildly infuriating"
MikeTheAverageReddit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:17:09 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yanks fuckin hell, Yanks and religion is worse than 20th century Ireland. This is the shit that causes the people over at /r/atheism to go insane & they're the saddest people/biggest gobshites on this planet.
XEssentialCryIceIs ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:22:49 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh dude, there's some Mormons out in Utah you have got to meet. Oh! And the Pentecostals!
MikeTheAverageReddit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:24:35 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Eh even they could have a close call with /r/Athiesm them lads are just sad gobshites 99% of the time.
BITCRUSHERRRR ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:28:02 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Doesnt matter what side you're on or what group you belong to, the amount of scapegoating and blaming actions on other's these days is fucking ridiculous. Some village was attacked by rebels in some small country? It's trumps fault. Russia didn't hack the election? Bullshit! Oh he was mentally ill and not actually a terrorist. Oh it wasn't a hate crime they were just misguided youth. North korea is only mad because big bad america hurt their feelings.
Like, can people own up to their own shit and admit when they're wrong? Nobody is going to shit on you for admitting fault
majoroutage ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:28:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Is this some new thing, or is this still about him sneaking a peek at his sister?
I'm not saying it was right, but the way he was raised - sheltered from learning about these things in a healthy way - his curiosity getting the best of him is not really that shocking.
chironomidae ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:30:10 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why is Kevin Spacey hanging out with him?
thoughtlord ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:32:25 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He disgusts me
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:41:37 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The fact that his wife continues to have children with him really disturbs me. He molested his sisters... There are no limits for him. Those kids aren't safe.
stillnopickles14 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:46:43 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There was a Law and Order: SVU episode a little while back about a Mormon (or 7th Day Adventist? Something similar) family who visits New York, and they find it the youngest daughter is pregnant. They look at the dad, he's innocent. They look at the teenage brother, who turns out to be innocent but got his slightly younger sister pregnant a few years back.
Turns out it was a priest, but I remember thinking, "Law and Order is always semi-based off of actual events, so what family is this?"
Thanks for the reminder.
Also, that show is fucked up. Fits perfectly with my mind, even though it confuses the hell out of Ice T.
Sanhael ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:48:30 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I hope he gets the help he needs, or develops testicular cancer. One or the other.
embraceyourpoverty ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:50:47 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
why oh why is this douchebag still in the media?
RandomCandor ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:53:01 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ok, I can accept that.
I wonder why the devil picked him specifically though.
Could it be because he's a pedophile?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:11:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
mike huckabee is scum
DukeNukem4Blood ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:15:42 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Mildly infuriating doesn't quite describe it for me.
reddinator69 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:16:05 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
โMildlyโ infuriating...doesnโt quite cover it, does it?
Electroswings ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:25:05 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Is that hitler without mustache?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:25:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I would like a reference for that quote.
Birddaycake ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:32:58 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. etc.
cruelpoet ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:03:06 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And look who's joined him in the pic; birds of a feather.
Algur ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:03:36 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because the Bible has nothing to say about accountability apparently.
https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Accountability
epic82 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:18:43 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Now run for president josh , you could win
reptiliandude ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:30:51 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Huckabee just has a more contemporary sound to it than Beelzebub.
Congratulations to the happy couple!
ACuriousHumanBeing ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:06:04 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I ship it.
DinosaurChampOrRiot ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:32:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Coming from r/all, holy shit is this sub obnoxious to read. Even as a joke, the tilting comments are unbearable. I get that it fits the theme of the sub, but the sub's theme is being infuriating! Why would you want this feature?
Nocternal655321 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:56:25 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
666th comment FTW!
Couldawg ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:03:32 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not to burst anyone's bubble, but Josh Duggar didn't actually say this.
Original story here. There was a "report" from InTouch Weekly in mid-July 2016 that Josh would be appearing on his sister's spin-off, "Jill & Jessa: Counting On." The unnamed source for this report purported to know what viewers could expect from Josh' appearance:
Other outlets picked up the InTouch story, and honed in on the "no apology" angle:
Patheos: Report: Josh Duggar Wonโt Apologize For Sex Abuse Because Devil Made Him Do It
Raw Story: Josh Duggar wonโt apologize for sex abuse and adultery: โHe believes external forces were to blameโ
Ultimately, Josh failed to appear on the show (I can't imagine why).
Earlier this summer, the Duggars filed a lawsuit against the State of Arkansas and InTouch Weekly. Patheos decided to republish the "no apology" story as if it were hot news. And why not? The story is getting new play, and it offers great ammunition against a slimeball. The only problem? The "no apology" story is completely fake news.
I get it. These days, it feels like everybody is fighting dirty. The end supposedly justifies the means. If you take down a slimeball, it doesn't matter how you do it, right?
I'm not so sure. Defamation laws are still a thing, and guys like Duggar stand to make a lot of money off of someone pushing a fake story. Furthermore, if a case contains a few lies/embellishments here and there, it suggests that the whole story ought to be taken with a grain of salt. In the pursuit of justice against guys like this, that's not really the reaction we want.
hooloovooblues ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:09:20 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is like ten levels past the mild level of infuriation.
mislam13 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:09:33 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So when I fuck him up and put him on bedrest, i donโt have to apologize, itโs the devilโs fault.
Sumbodygonegethertz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:13:36 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Rapists should be given the choice of life imprisonment, death or castration and hands removed
Flopmind ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:15:08 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'd say that surpasses mild frustration by a fair bit.
washie ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:29:15 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I can't stand this motherfucker. He is the perfect example of a hypocrite, asking not to be judged while constantly judging and condemning others.
PvtBrasilball ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:32:10 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh god, is he first ime im in this subreddit on the computer. The comment angle is abnoxious..
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:38:24 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is just mildly infuriating. This is /r/rage material right here.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:00:16 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Implying that it's only mildly infuriating
SupremeRedditBot ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:28:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Congrats for reaching r/all/top/ (of the day, top 50) with your post! ย
I am a bot, probably quite annoying, I mean no harm though
Message me to add your account or subreddit to my blacklist
Shiroi_Kage ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:01:09 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You go to hell because you gave into the devil's temptation.
LeninsBarber ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:14:42 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's nothing remotely mild about this. It's just infuriating.
SpaghettiRambo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:01:31 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is probably one of my biggest pet peeves about religion: no sense of accountability for actions. God takes all the credit for good stuff in the world because "God gives strength" or "God acts/speaks through people" and anything bad in the world can just be written off by blaming the Devil. No sense of accountability or individual actions at all
ixijimixi ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:16:45 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Party of personal responsibility
Spacegod87 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:29:05 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Slaps wife
"That was the devil."
Punches wife
"That was the devil too."
Kicks wife
"Oh man, the devil just will not let up today!"
cschmidt0525 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:38:54 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Mildly infuriating is severely understanding the level of fury
DAK183 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:53:51 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The Huckster and Duggar, now that is a pair. Oh and his daughter SHS, the apple does not fall far from the tree. #FakeChristian #FakeNews #Resist
DeyDreamin ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:11:08 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sooo ppl can slaughter each other an be excused because it was in the name of the Lord?? I love religious nuts who try to justify their actions through religion.
chicoange ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:09:51 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Someone elect this shining example of a human being!! /s
Stealthwind ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:37:15 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well time to go to therapy again because I'm so fucking done with this life.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:10:39 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I hate Mike Huckabee
Rab_Legend ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:14:22 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nah mate, cause remember how it said that God set us all up with that free will. So we can only choose to do what the devil tempts us to do. So really you're just a fucking scumbag, and now you're too much of a coward to own up to it.
glumonkey88 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:22:27 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Needs more frying
Salivalasers ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:45:17 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
r/satanism
deMondo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:16:44 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Any person who goes around claiming there is a god and all that goes with it is indistinguishable from a liar of the worst kind. Someone who (for example) claims their god saved them and deserves praise for it while others who believed them and followed the same God lost their lives or all their things or were even scratched by disaster should be locked away from decent society forever at their own expense or allowed to starve.
skinnyjeangoon ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:16:45 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Now he's just making things up. What a weirdo.
Lazaras ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:24:31 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's what i hate most about religion. Shitty human beings using a higher power to blame their lack of human decency on. What pieces of shit
LeeKinanus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:30:39 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In reality it is exactly why they flock to religion. They actually need a scapegoat. (Or in the case of a priest a boy to fondle)
normanbailer ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:26:24 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He probably just needs a private jet so he can be closer to god when he apologizes, but if he's blaming the devil then we should just put him six feet closer to the accused.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:14:54 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's not mildly infuriating. That's severely infuriating.
walkingaroundpants ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:45:09 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sorry, but this is way more than mild.
zeapups ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:06:16 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I can't believe his wife is still with him, the entire situation is disgusting and the lack of remorse and externally blaming anyone other than himself is nauseating. The entire quiverful movement disturbs me, the notion of trying to procreate as much as possible and creating more minds to follow their cult/give them more of a voice is a problem. Fundamentalism in America is a troubling reality.
evilblackdog ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:11:43 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"I believe in karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it."
https://i.imgflip.com/1ni85f.jpg
KXNG_AC ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:48:07 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs ok. Logic like that dictates someone can beat him to death, because itโs the devils fault
Vaux1916 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:57:12 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"What incentive do you have for leading a good, moral life if you don't believe in God?" - A question I've gotten more than once when people find out I'm an atheist.
UndertheBellJar10 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:22:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
God damn. This is fucked. Take some responsibility for what you did
SocialistNordia ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:51:17 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Fuck this guy and his imaginary devil.
bluejumpingdog ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:10:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The religious right have some questionable celebrities and people they admire
AnotherSchool ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:25:25 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Idk anyone on the religious right that "admires" him....
4chan_pol_ambassador ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:26:31 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
so would it be the devils fault if someone shot him?
Big_Benny_Boi ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:59:58 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I do not have to apoligize for killing that man, it was the devils fault
duckandcover ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:06:39 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Shouldn't this have been titled "Religious 'logic'"?
bandalooper ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:10:18 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This "scapegoatism"
Marksmen9882 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:17:59 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The "I'm not religious until I do something super shitty strat" rarely works
Sparkykun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:16:26 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"Needs need to be satisfied"
Distant_Blackhole ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:44:15 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You don't blame the devil on your sins.
24KG24 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:56:19 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is some shit we're talking about in philosophy class.
Worst_Lurker ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:56:56 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
/r/dankchristianmemes ?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:12:48 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Who is the other guy in the photo? Thatโs gonna bother me all day.
WeAreWonderfulNow ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:30:04 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Here ya go....
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Huckabee
*Edit: Grammatical correction.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:31:50 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you!!
kurisu7885 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:31:43 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Then it would be perfectly alright if God told someone to beat you into a coma?
Nintendobandit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:32:31 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Fucking piece of shit!
c3h8pro ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:33:24 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What office is he running for (when he is done diddling his sister of course)?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:34:25 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think it's a good time someone kills him and blames the devil.
HolaAvogadro ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:38:31 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"People without religion lack morals and accountability" ha
oosuteraria-jin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:45:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Huckabee looking like a poor man's Frank Underwood
Jeffricus_1969 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:47:17 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, he was the real victim...
Who's up for a good stoning?
SwingaLinga ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:51:17 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
These Christians are makin' us actual Christians all look like idiots!
Schroeder226 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:51:17 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
r/rage
Caelab456 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:52:09 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This isn't mildly infuriating. It's enraging.
Comeonjeffrey0193 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:56:42 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Someone shoot this guy
BallroomdancerAMA ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:57:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So which one is josh?
MetalGearSlayer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:58:20 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What religion is this guy because I guarantee you that's not how it works
TotesMessenger ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:01:12 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
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CantHugEveryCat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:07:11 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The devil made me do it!
asimabdulkabir ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:10:58 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't have to apologize for drop kicking your ass because it's the devils fault
actionshooter74 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:21:35 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
However . Whatever I do it would be my apologise. Seems to work.
OrphannCrippler ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:24:00 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Gotta love those christians doing everything they can to avoid the blame of hurting others.
WayneKrane ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:24:20 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh religion. You can be a total douche and all you have to do is pray for forgiveness to feel better about yourself.
sparkintellect2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:24:31 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lol, killed a person? Blame Satan. Smfh
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:25:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
เฒ _เฒ
SleepyIvy3311 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:26:02 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Is that Biden?
Dont-be-a-smurf ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:29:45 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Completely unsurprised.
Self accountability comes with a high price - dude has to realize that it wasn't the devil working through him but that he was just a wicked human. A lot of egos, even amoral criminals, will distance themselves from concluding that they're bad people.
babyProgrammer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:37:26 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What's the difference between religion and schizophrenia again?
draxxis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:38:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"mildly" infuriating
locotxwork ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:40:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"The Devil made me do it" is actually legitimately the most evil excuse created by the devil for it attempts to remove all guilt from the evil that was done by placing it on the devil as the reason for it and saying "I am the excuse for your sin". However, there's another who counters this and does the opposite and "removes the sins of the world". Damn, didn't know Bible study was in session today.
singuslarity ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:43:55 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why have any laws at all if the Devil makes everything bad happen? No, you're a sick person Mr. Duggar, and you need professional help.
smileywaters ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:46:00 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's...that's not what he said. That's not what anyone said....
stanleys_tucci ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:49:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is what pastors would call โSpiritual Warfareโ. I fucking loathed listening to my pastor blame that for all the problems we had on our mission trips, as if there are no idiotic people in the church who donโt know how to do their job.
topologyrulz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:51:20 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But women are still guulty for original sin.
-idkwhattocallmyself ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:52:56 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Off Topic: I just found this /sub/ and you guys have done mildlyinfiriating so damn well with the comment section, I actually had to turn off the text transform in the CSS.
Luminous_Fantasy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:54:48 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You mean /r/rage my dude.
Also why the fuck huckabee smiling with this filth? Was it before people knew?
Voidsabre ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:54:50 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The real mildly infuriating is this fake quote published as if it were real. An anonymous "source" said that's something he might say
spaceman112 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:55:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What about this is โmildlyโ infuriating?
constipatedlamppost ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:56:24 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought this was the onion...
BA_lampman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:59:09 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why is one eye stage right and one dead center? He looks like a renaissance painting.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:00:55 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
a) That's not what he said b) That is not how it works c) Please provide a source
ben_gardners_boat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:02:53 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is not accurate. It is slander by a hack blogger.
Yes, the guy is disgusting. But the quote was made up.
cultsuperstar ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:05:16 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He could've gone the other way and said it was all part of God's plan to test him or teach him a lesson or whatever.
Mike_B_R ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:05:30 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In that picture both of those assholes are molesting each other, erected penises and all.
drumobsession ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:10:09 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The headline is even worse, because I'm sure he didn't say that
eggrollmanbulance ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:11:54 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Looks like I don't need to apologize when I punch Josh Duggar in the face.. it's all the devil's fault afterall.
Rabid_Chocobo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:13:11 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Mm-mm baby, this ain't the 70's, you can't be blaming the devil for your crimes anymore
12edDawn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:20:39 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is your brain on DEX
FratAlbert ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:24:43 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"Mildly" infuriating. Yeah this only pisses me off a little bit.
dantebeli ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:27:04 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
๐๐ผ๐๐ผ๐๐ผ๐๐ผ kill him
ilovevoat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:30:51 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Please tell me he didn't really say that.
nixonbeach ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:35:54 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
These idiots are as bad as the kardashians.
sirfezman19 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:40:32 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is not "mildly"infuriating this is "extremely"infuriating.
Michael_Pistono ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:47:50 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's nothing "mildly" infuriating about him.
Orangeback420zx ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:47:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
r/atheism
poison5200 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:48:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's called "flawgic". Flawed logic.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:49:11 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
Scared_Trumptard ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:12:11 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sad sad little man.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:12:49 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You have a sad little dick
ScorpioGlitch ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:49:56 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Being remorseful for your crimes is a big thing when they pass sentencing. And since you're a molester, that makes this even better. Rot in jail, asshole.
imac132 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:52:36 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wrong sub this belongs in r/extremelyinfruriatingandthispersondeservestobethrownintogeneralpopulationatsanquinten
89XE10 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:54:51 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well he has a point considering free will is a farce and everything we do is a function of stimulus and genetics.
Auctoritate ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:56:15 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know the details of this guy but, isn't that's just one of those sensationalized headlines? It's not a quote drom him.
hotdogoctopus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:57:45 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
r/atheism
causaleffect ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:57:59 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Mildly?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:58:16 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No personal responsibility
apullin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:01:24 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't have to apologize for that honor killing because a man in the sky told me he is the creator of the universe and said that it correct for me to do it.
Truite249675 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:01:50 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So we'll let the devil have it's way with you then I guess
Nabrocolli ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:02:48 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did he actually say this?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:03:00 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Soooo what did he actually say? Am I supposed to be infuriated by some snarky rewording or something he allegedly might have said?
J2daEWW ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:03:41 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Huh?
Mike_B_R ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:12:14 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why are some idiots defending this self admitted sexual predator?
chickenpants80 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:13:20 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Christian here. May I please say , THESE PEOPLE DO NOT REPRESENT US.
TheWhoamater ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:15:34 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Kill him anyways. They used to slaughter "Agents of Satan", so if he's admitting to it treat him the same
thebestsexpest ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:15:48 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Fuck christians!
lynnsiealbz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:16:02 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is laughable how delusional he is. Thatโs not how religion works, bud.
pmmeur_catz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:16:20 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is more than mildly infuriating. This is straight up disgusting.
moleratical ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:16:47 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's not mildly infuriating
NayMarine ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:17:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
i have a coworker who does shit like this. oh i forgot to order those important parts oh well i better go pray they will be right next time.
Got_You_Covered ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:26:05 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Bitch you are the devil
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:31:09 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"But kick DREAMers out!"
dandaman64 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:34:30 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Josh Duggar is operating off the same logic as Norman Osborn in the first Spider-Man movie.
busac006 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:36:00 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why the guy on the right look like the Wayne Enterprises accountant who tried to blackmail Fox??
rarios92 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:41:41 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Is he the devil?
TommBomBadil ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:42:17 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's good to have this photo handy for whenever some dimwit talking-head on Fox
refers to Mike Huckabee as a serious, substantial person whom we should respect.
doihavemakeanewword ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:43:09 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm willing to start thinking of him as the devil.
misakiandou ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:44:28 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So what your saying is...you're the devil?
buscoamigos ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:58:19 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
/r/punchablefaces
battlechili1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:58:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
>mildly
not-your-teacher ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:00:49 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is the wrong subreddit, dude. This is not "mildly infuriating" this shot is outrageous
ironbeatle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:02:00 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
why did you feel it necessary to post the pic with Mike Huckabee. I've met Mike Huckabee irl as a teenager and he gave he advice that made me feel important.
chikenvlix ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:08:18 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What? The sex criminal doesnโt take responsibility for his actions? Shocker!
xBushx ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:08:33 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Is the guy in the pic with him the devil. Because hes either that or someone slipping towards the Sith.
Fierybuttz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:11:24 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This can't be real......
nothingemo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:12:53 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Man. According to his Wikipedia page he did not even attend college. So, even though he hasn't attended college, and even amidst these disgusting scandals he was apart of, he was still able to work with a PAC and Mike Huckabee's Presidential campaign.
splitprune ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:14:08 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was really confused for a good while there because I was imagining an underground train stopping to let on a crowd of small, blind and confused mammals and I was desperately trying to figure out what that had to do with these two men and religion and I figured I'd probably missed some kind of major controversy and awman I'm way bummed out now I was really looking forward to knowing about the devil's mole-station.
Phlink75 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:14:28 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
We need like a gay superhero that dispenses justice for sexual assault victims by overpowering and raping thier attackers, turning them into the little bitches they are.
Fuck Josh Duggar and anyone like him, literally.
Rage_Blackout ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:16:37 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Translation: I'm a sociopath.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:21:05 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Downvote cuz mad or upvote because furious
Nitraus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:24:17 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Classic puritan
Nastyboots ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:31:41 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And I don't have to apologize for molestation because, you know, I don't most people. I guess that's where he and I differ...
R3DT1D3 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:31:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I like how Reddit likes to make fun of the whole "Fake News" thing but will still blindly upvote actual fake news so long as it's someone they dislike.
ChromeLynx ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:40:44 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Indeed, it's all the devil's fault.... Except... PLOT TWIST: The devil is YOU! *mic drop*
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:46:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I hope the devil doesn' make someone hit Josh Duggar in the face with a baseball bat because his own stupid logic precludes him from any recourse
KillerAdvice ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:48:08 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Give him an exorcism. If the devil doesn't come out, literally burn him as a warlock/Agent of hell.
just_zhis_guy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:51:50 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I love that Huckabee is still his buddy, but to hell with the gays!!
12wienerdogs ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:54:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yall dont need to worry that boy is going to be extra cripsy when he actually meets the devil
turtle_nelson ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:57:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How is this "mildly" infuriating?! Religious stuff aside, child molesters are some of the worst people ever
Popcorn_is_life ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:57:45 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That excuse excuse hasn't worked since the 1800s
warpfield ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:59:56 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"No one can prove we have free will so it's not my fault."
whit3o ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:01:41 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
By the logic couldn't we just kill him?
Kurigauth ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:07:55 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Right but homosexuality is a choice.
Fuck this guy
thebrownesteye ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:09:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I did some research and turns out his name is actually Moe. Moe Lester
arbitrarily-random ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:09:23 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Dafuq.
But, is that a direct quote, or a paraphrased version of something he said? Not that it matters much, I have already seen/ heard enough from this particular piece of shit that it's easy to believe he might really think this way.
tucketkevin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:13:51 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
These people! Total ass this one. Take responsibility for your own perverted actions. Shame on you!
basement-thug ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:20:20 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Can we just get a rapture already....? That'd be greeeeeeaat.
Cole444Train ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:24:07 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is more than "mildly" infuriating
willy1980 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:28:29 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't like the slant on this rant. No seriously. Scroll down the page. It feels like you're going to fall off the chair.
FGoon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:29:33 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't have time to explain things I don't have time to understand.
metkja ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:30:25 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I love that Mike Huckabee just hopped in for a picture. He does the opposite of everything I would do.
PatrickSlayZ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:36:55 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
54k likes? Fuck. Must all be Penn State fans.
๐๏ธ DOC360noscope ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:37:33 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Where'd you get 54k from? It's at 20k
PatrickSlayZ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:40:07 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The fb likes on the pic. Otherwise I would've said upvotes ๐
๐๏ธ DOC360noscope ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:40:40 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh.
Oh...
I have no idea how
PatrickSlayZ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:43:57 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's quite amazing the lengths people are willing to go to defend pieces of shit, especially when they can hide behind religion while they point fingers.
stubble ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:37:36 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So I don't have to apologize for punching this piece of crap on the nose.
Hey, this religious stuff is good..
devolvxr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:38:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
People like this should be erased.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:40:27 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think he's angling for a spot in GOP
patty-l ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:42:34 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I hope the lord giveth him an ass raping ๐๐๐๐
painterofwalls1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:43:02 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
As a christian, these are the type of people that make the rest of seem like jackasses. Of course itโs his fault, that kind of irresponsibility on leads to bigger and continued problems. Sick.
James_Locke ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:47:36 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks for the fake post OP
A9Miley ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:48:59 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's not even mild that's just infuriating.
IrishGamer97 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:49:33 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"Oh I can't apologize for shooting that family... The Devil made me do it."
ih8GOPVoters ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:53:03 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This seems more suitable for /r/rage than here but ok.
theabyssstares ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:53:31 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is extremely, not mildly, infuriating
InvaderChin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:56:20 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The supporters of the party of "personal responsibility", everyone!
Yeishbomb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:56:53 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's nothing mild about this one. This is properly infuriating.๐ค
Yawgie ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:06:00 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Execution. No other means. His only savior. Bullets
Lots42 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:07:03 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So if I thought the devil was making me hurt kids I would go find a cop and punch them that way I get locked in a jail cell away from kids.
glothar ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:14:03 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This does not even look real. No website address?
Monorail5 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:15:06 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Good company, Huckabee is a scumbag too.
ee3654 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:20:14 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is how the Salem Witch Trials started
comejoinus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:21:41 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You mean /r/massivelyinfuriating
BLOODFORTHABLOODGOD ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:27:03 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
As a former theology major, how the shitting fuck??
suchgreatspoons ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:32:17 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There needs to be a r/majorlyinfuriating
yesididreddit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:35:35 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I guess you can get away with anything if you're religious.
weavemysin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:37:23 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Guess it won't be my fault if I beat the fuck out of him.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:38:51 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Neither does the judge because the devil got to him too.
PompeiWasAnInsideJob ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:41:04 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Do you want to go tell that to Adam and Eve?
allinasecond ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:43:17 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
wtf is happening to the text
DontOpenTheSafe ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:55:08 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So... he is claiming he is the devil then?
WolfeS93 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:57:44 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He touched his own sisters.
But sure, the Devil was the puppeteer.
SydBarretWasHere ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:59:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If there's a Hell tho he's probably going.
scyth3s ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:00:11 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But how can you be moral if you don't believe in a god?
admiralgeneralaladin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:01:07 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sorry for banging your mum. That was all me.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:13:03 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ahh religion. The good ol books that people idolize which sends messages of love and acceptance, as long as the other person looks like, believes like and speaks like you. To the rest, kill them, rape them, pillage them and repeat. Then spread the word of god and love and peace and donations! Brain washing at its finest.
It's such an archaic value system, outdated and completely lost it's relevance centuries ago. The followers of these cult brain washing societies can't even tell the difference between philosophy and reality - they live, eat, breathe this shit. It's really sad. I really feel bad for these people. They pray to a diety that means nothing, follow words from a book that's not even transcripts of the origin or any origin and translations with infinite meanings.
I will take the religious stoning of hypocrisy but the sheeple now.
blueleader77 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:15:47 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's not how the Force works! That's not how any of this works!!
Daniel_USA ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:19:17 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did you just assume the Devil was guilty? REEEEEE
ramond_gamer11 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:21:15 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's like saying you shouldn't be arrested for drug abuse because the doctors gave it to you.
princeofravenz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:22:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh look it's Mike Fuckabee !
TheXypris ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:31:18 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
r/atheism
Montymania94 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:38:51 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is a little more than /r/mildlyinfuriating
Ennui_Go ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:42:42 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I had almost completely forgotten that these people exist. Thanks, OP.
apapoolman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:05:55 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Please please tell me this is a fake quote from him and he didn't actually say
JohnBoyAndBilly ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:13:15 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well, actually that's what Aristotle proposed - that no man is evil because all evil acts are simply confusion.
๐๏ธ DOC360noscope ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:19:16 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Aristotle also proposed that the sun orbited the earth
JohnBoyAndBilly ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:21:54 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well right, science wasn't as far along at that point, but I do find that philosophical concept interesting.
People wouldn't commit evil acts if there wasn't mental confusion, because any amount of meditation will reveal the natural state of being is "light" so to speak, kindness and understanding. Probably something to that concept.
Having said that, just committing evil acts and saying "oh that's just the devil", well, fair enough, but you damn well better stop it, you can't just keep "kicking it with the devil".
ballen15 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:22:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's almost like he didn't read the fucking book
threedeenyc ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:31:28 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did he really say that shit?
๐๏ธ DOC360noscope ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:33:42 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
More or leas
GiantsInTornado ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:58:53 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wish their was a hell because it'd be nice to see this guy go to it.
dude27634 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:31:30 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Is he the son of the man that likes to be called jim-bob? Looks like he and Huckabee would make a cute couple.
sunsk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:41:20 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like there's a reason why the "quote" isn't in quotes.
thebigraddaradda ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:21:37 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Throwaway because I don't want someone to figure out my irl identity.
I wish you guys could know, like truly know, what fucking happens in the Duggar family. I know I hold zero credibility because of the whole throwaway thing, but I'm very closely associated with them (as in my parents have had most of them over for dinner on multiple occasions and we have been on the TV show.).
Most of the kids are actually pretty alright, not a fan of a few of the older ones though. Jim-Bob and Michelle are essentially cult leaders, and some of their kids know it and feel they were only conceived to keep the number up.
The kids aren't as sheltered as many people think. The younger ones, sure, but the teenagers and older are all pretty aware of what's going on.
xRoflcopterr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:33:18 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thatโs not how any of this works...
MyWifeHasADick ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:34:16 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ah. One of the many reasons I do not miss living in Arkansas anymore. Thank god I'm not actually from there, shit.
rabidpeacock ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:37:25 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I hope someone rapes him and cuts off his tiny wiener and then says not my fault the devil made me do it.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:38:52 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's almost as bad as "I didn't rape and murder those women! It was a man called John. The man is dead now and in his place is me, a transwoman named Donna. If you're going to send me to jail for what John did, at least send me to a women's prison."
LumpyWumpus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:44:24 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wow. 26 thousand upvotes. Almost a thousand comments. All for a fake quote.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:45:38 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh...uh...uh...satire! It's satire!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:56:38 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This religion thing might be useful after all...
n7candidate ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:57:06 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Kevin Spacey could play a really good Huckabee in a movie.
Smeagol3000 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:20:34 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Could also post this picture to punchable faces if that's still a sub.
Beachfantan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:20:51 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Way to go, taking responsibility for your own actions. I hope that family stops procreating.
_misha_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:32:41 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wrong subreddit.
FIONASPEGGY ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:34:33 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's the same excuse my brother used.....fuckin gross.
Nomadola ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:57:39 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What a dark as hole
BraveFencerMusashi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:33:19 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nothing mild about this
javadragon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:36:37 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just sickening. Look at those smug, creepy looks on their faces. This is child molestation.
spiridonprime ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:08:53 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
....and that's why people abhor christians.
lovenallely ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:09:56 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
๐คข
Chatto_1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:00:47 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Tell that to the judge, because I'm going to sue you for everything you're worth.
BimboDickins ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:02:35 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Expecting โlogicโ from child molesters.
dannixxphantom ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:35:08 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's like when my little brother cracked me across the face with a Buzz Lightyear toy and refused to take credit, "it was Buzz!"
Good, I won't catch a charge for putting Buzz fucking Lightyear through a wall.
frankcastlestein ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:10:54 on September 25, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Does that mean I don't have to apologize for repeatedly and violently beating him at every opportunity?
๐๏ธ DOC360noscope ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:14:01 on September 25, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, then it's a "hate crime" because Christian logic
frankcastlestein ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:46:01 on September 25, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
damn I knew there would be a catch
๐๏ธ DOC360noscope ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:46:54 on September 25, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ya never know till you try
INeedSomeHelp6804 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:41:49 on February 20, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Fits in r/funny and r/memes
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:47:51 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
fuckin MILDLY???? u shud all be legit enraged
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:29:28 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is more than mildly infuriating. New sub?
Please_No_Titty_PMs ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:55:49 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
/r/rage used to be my go to but it wasn't healthy
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:03:49 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
After a quick look I totally get that.
reddinator69 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:16:33 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Came here to say this...commented anyway lol
Dissidentures ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:30:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
uh not mildly
Fernandot94 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:34:40 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
r/rage
ChronicAddiction ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:35:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
/r/rage
LazyKidd420 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:36:05 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You gotta punch these types of people real hard in the face.
ialsohaveadobro ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:32:30 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought at first it said "...because it's all the Dems' fault" and barely batted an eye that a contemporary conservative would claim that.
infinitude ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:18:01 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Look, I hate the man. This headline is fucking bullshit though. He never said this. Shit-tier
journalistsheadline jockies do more harm than good by posting this sort of drivel.Report the news you lazy fucks.
Wurps ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:43:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's not exactly what he said, but if you look at the original it is clearly what he meant. We live in a world where you can offset your responsibility for your actions on a storybook villain.
It's like blaming jafar because you rubbed a dude's lamp.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:39:01 on September 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
As a religious person I can say this is total bs. No itโs not the devils fault. Itโs yours. The devil DID tempt you but you gave in instead of saying no. Therefor it is your fault.
BubberDuckey ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:41:46 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not going after anyone I'm putting in my 2ยข into an internet conversation and you took it as an attack. That's on you buddy.
TrooperRamRod ยท -13 points ยท Posted at 14:21:05 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why have a picture with Huckabee? He's not a molester, not cool to have his picture on an article about this. This photo was probably taken before the allegations came out, not ok to act like it happened afterwards.
fissionman1 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:23:44 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Huckabee defended this guy and agreed with his conclusion that it wasn't his fault. He's an enabler.
XEssentialCryIceIs ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:24:31 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Josh Duggar worked for his campaign. I think his father did as well.
[deleted] ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 14:49:33 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He's not a child molester, he just want to take health care away from millions of people. No big deal.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:44:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
fine, you know what it has to do with the comment? that sack of shit has publicly defended defended him. "oh but josh duggar was only a kid, he's a fine stand up christian now." yeah, and he goes to strip clubs and fucks the stripper like all good christians do. sure, the picture was taken a few days before it was made public knowledge that he raped his sisters but the way he has stood up to defend him says to me he would have take a picture with him anyway.
it has to do with op's comment because just because he didn't rape kids doesn't mean he is a good person who deserves defending. i never said the current health care system is perfect but millions of people do in fact rely on the current health care system that is out. and the one that huckabee supports will make people people with pre existing conditions shit out of luck. that's not speculation, thats what the bill says. i'm not christian, but i'm pretty sure his bible doesn't say anywhere in it to save up millions of dollars instead of using it to help the sick and poor. i believe in fact it says the opposite.
tldr: it's perfectly fair to use that picture because huckabee defends josh duggar. and even if he didn't, i would have no sympathy for him.
why-this ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:27:36 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What the fuck does that have to do with OPs comment?
TrooperRamRod ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:36:49 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
First of all, no, he wants to stop forcing Americans to buy shitty insurance or be fined for it.
Second, fine if you feel that way, but that doesn't change anything.
khoawala ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 15:43:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hmmm give American option to not buy insurance, don't go to doctor, wait until an inch left of their life and show up to the emergency room which causes hospitals to either go bankrupt or start charging the shit ton more for those who can pay..... Then blame immigrants for taking advantage of our healthcare while people with money run to other country for same quality of healthcare with less cost.
Works for me!! Why didn't we do this befo... Oh wait...
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:26:37 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You know, people already wait till too late to go to the hospital. And secondly, ever heard of The Chargemaster? Its a book all american hospitals have to determine how overpriced the items should be. They wouldnt go bankrupt, they would survive.
khoawala ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:51:53 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Many hospitals did close did obamacare and many personal bankruptcies were filed. How do you think the middle class got destroyed?
Since federal law made that hospitals can't turn away patience, that only left you with 2 options: either everyone pays or a few can pay for everyone e else. Of course, the 3rd option would just let those who can't pay die, whatever.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:15:28 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Are you advocating we check for insurance and not treat people if they cant pay?
khoawala ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:21:34 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think you are too young to remember pre-ACA era when the top posts on Reddit everyday was someone's medical bill that get mistaken for a mortgage.
khoawala ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:19:44 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Option 2 would inevitably lead to option 3 after everyone is either bankrupt or hospitals shut down.
Metalvayne7x ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:31:22 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You know, because all Republicans are evil. So let's smear as many of them as we can. /s
It's also why your decent, logical question proceeds to be down voted into oblivion, because in these people's eyes they're all molesters.
Reddit can be pretty shitty sometimes.
Not_Without_My_Balls ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 14:44:55 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, can we just make up quotes and circle jerk about them now?
"I don't have to apologize for molesting kids because I brought a $15 minimum wage to Seattle." - Ed Murray.
"I don't need to apologize for raping anyone because I paid them 900k." - Bill Clinton.
"I don't have to apologize for liking child pornography because Huma forgave me." - Anthony Wiener.
"Hot Sauce." - Hillary Clinton.
[deleted] ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 15:58:14 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Not_Without_My_Balls ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 16:21:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yea, why do you think OP chose a picture with Huckabee for this completely made up quote? Probably to spur some of those "conservatives are evil" comments that were here before me.
XEssentialCryIceIs ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:26:41 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm guessing it's the picture that went with the article.
why-this ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:35:26 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You guessed wrong. Here is the actual article:
http://www.ifyouonlynews.com/news/josh-duggar-i-dont-have-to-apologize-for-molestation-because-its-all-the-devils-fault/
No picture of the two. Oh and the "journalist" mentioned Huckabee by claiming he defended Duggar by citing a fake quote that was claimed false by Snopes:
http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/joshduggar.asp
XEssentialCryIceIs ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:33:55 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Was the picture from the story the author was quoting?
why-this ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:39:44 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The citation link on the story doesnt work.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:27:34 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wait, bill raped people?!
Harry_Potthead ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:35:31 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He was accused of sexually assaulting several woman. He was never convicted, settled out of court IIRC.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:37:15 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Accusation=/= he did it, so ima say no
Harry_Potthead ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:03:13 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't say he did do it. Just explaining why that guy said it.
griii2 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:43:25 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's perfectly logical.
Now let's burn that devil out of his penis with red hot iron.
PopeAlexanderIV ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:09:12 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When all else fails, blame the devil I guess.
InternetFan1 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 20:10:06 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean he's right.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 23:21:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Whoever posted this to smear Huckabee is truly a cunt .
๐๏ธ DOC360noscope ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:23:55 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I wasn't saying anything about Huckabee, I was smearing Duggar.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 23:29:02 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Then why after associating Dugger molestation with religion did you post a picture of Dugger with religious huckabee. You know what you did.
๐๏ธ DOC360noscope ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:36:29 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's the article I found. If you don't like it go find another article.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 23:48:21 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You posted it here. That is what makes you a cunt.
๐๏ธ DOC360noscope ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:49:20 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Again: that's the article I found. If you don't like it I'm sure InfoWars has enough alternative facts to keep you happy
Jakeafer420 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:11:37 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
He tried
GDVB03254KWJEPYT6214 ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 16:33:52 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So muslims throw gays off buildings. Plow trucks into crowded events. Blow bombs up all over the place. Are commanded to kill you, the infidel per their holy book.. But this is the logic that bothers you.. Seems to me logic is a word you don't quite understand.
Edit: Like I said, logic, you have none.. And your fake internet points won't change that fact.
frozenmacncheese ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:18:41 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
no one said anything about muslims here. people are pissed that a child molester is trying to pass off blame because of his religion. take your bait back t_d.
Scared_Trumptard ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:16:20 on September 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wow you are truly a piece of shit. No wonder you hide behind a new account like the coward you are.