We're not taking this down just yet for the following reasons:
It's mildly infuriating. Be it a troll text, or a skewed view on the world (according to a majority of the population, atheist or theist), it's still annoying. It's extreme enough that even most religious people would take a stand against it.
The comments here are generally light-hearted and the discussions are largely civilized. Please report any comments that aren't.
Also, this is just a reddit post. Don't get up in arms and taunt us or any other users if you think differently.
Then this post should be removed and the original textbook page should be posted in its place.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 17:41:44 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's mildly infuriating. Be it a troll text, or a skewed view on the world (according to a majority of the population, atheist or theist), it's still annoying. It's extreme enough that even most religious people would take a stand against it.
I don't understand this. If it's a joke, then what's annoying about it? And why does it make a difference if people would object to it if it was real? I understand wanting to keep the post up if you think the discussion is good but this justification for the content is kind of odd and reaching a bit.
As a religious person who came to take a stand against this, I support your decision to leave the post up. There's no point denying science, based on our God-given powers of observation, and perpetuating a worldview that has no basis in fact.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 08:02:47 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Okay, okay, so I do think there's a God who can do all kinds of things that would defy human logic and observations of physics.
I still think that's a lot less ridiculous than believing against all kinds of evidence to the contrary that there were vegetarian dinosaurs running around at the same time as modern humans.
[deleted] ยท 597 points ยท Posted at 14:18:25 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I remember a man coming to talk to my class once about dinosaurs. He had a whole spiel about T. Rexes being vegetarians. Mainly, saying their teeth were for plants. I've thought about it periodically and wondered why I've never heard anything else on it. It was a Christian school.
I'm kind of pissed that my parents paid for a school like that, now.
Forr145 ยท 413 points ยท Posted at 14:58:37 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I just want to take a moment to say not all of them are this bad. I went to private catholic school and we learned real science. Evolution, the Big Bang, all that good stuff.
I'm a firm believer that galileo screwed himself over. Not with his heliocentric views, but rather because he was an asshole. I don't have any evidence of that, only speculation because galileo was executed [sentenced to community service], but the discussion still occurred. I think what is more likely, is that galileo was executed [sentenced to community service] for other reasons, and the heliocentric agenda was buried because of its association with galileo.
But I could be wrong. The very loud Christians who prefer ignorance over enlightenment make the rest of us look bad. :-/
Thanks for greatly expanding what little I knew about Galileo's imprisonment.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:39:12 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a firm believer that galileo screwed himself over. Not with his heliocentric views, but rather because he was an asshole.
I believe that modern historiography generally agrees that Galileo had options for advancing heliocentrism without making so much trouble for himself but chose to be... let's say "abrasive" instead. I don't think heliocentrism was completely apart from the matter but it's widely accepted that his own inflammatory behavior had a lot to do with how things went down.
KOM ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 22:46:50 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Read down. Catholicism officially still insists that Adam and Eve were two real people who we're all descended from, which evidence firmly contradicts.
In an incredibly general and vague way we are technically descended from two people who some call Adam and Eve. If you want to open a 6000+ year old can of worms, look up Adam's first wife Lilith.
akunis ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 16:29:36 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But if Adam was the first man and Eve was made from his rib, where did Lilith come from?
The dirt as well and/but she had as much self determination and will as Adam so she was cast out. God then made Eve from his rib so she would be subservient to Adam but that didn't go well either.
Apparently he went through a lot of Adams before he realised that trying to speak to him makes his head explode.
banjo2E ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:33:31 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
IIRC the rib thing is an ancient mistranslation - it's supposed to be "side." The idea being not so much that Eve would be subservient than that the two of them would actually stay together this time. Side by side, if you will.
Which, to God's credit, is pretty much what happened, but there wasn't actually anything preventing either of them from making other, unrelated poor decisions.
I thought we traced back to a single Eve, but there were probably a whole lot of Adams. Great great great great great great great great great grandma Eve was a ho.
Cyno01 ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 17:03:14 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
R-Guile ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:02:58 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There's a single woman from whom our mitochondrial DNA derives. That doesn't mean there was ever just one man or woman. It's more likely that the human population reached a bottleneck, and the genetics of this one woman became dominant. I've always thought "Mitochondrial Eve" was a pretty misleading name, since its really not the same idea at all.
I appreciate that the Wiki page has a list of misconceptions, but they all could have been avoided with better, less sensationalist terminology.
They've been able to trace back to a single genetic Adam, but only in the sense that he's the oldest common human ancestor that everyone alive shares today. It doesn't mean, however, that everyone followed in a straight line from one of his kids. More like he had a lot of kids, and those kids had kids with people not descended from him (thus adding to his descendants in addition to theirs), and those kids had kids with people not descended from him, until eventually everyone on the planet was distantly related to this one guy. It's kind of like how today a massive portion of Asia is directly descended from Genghis Khan. He wasn't the only man around at the time, or the only one to successfully breed, but his descendants interbred with the descendants of so many of his contemporaries that their descendants are all related not through them, but through him.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:47:35 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
look up Adam's first wife Lilith
Only if I happen to be a Jew living in Babylon somewhere around the 3 to 5th century After Christ! Which is a good ~500 to 800 years after the Old Testament was translated into Greek as the Septuagint.
That Lilith stuff is way after the Roman banishment of Jews in the 70's AD.
It aint a can of worms at all.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:06:47 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
N_Cat ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 17:16:54 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, they're saying:
If you choose two random people on earth, and go enough generations back, they share at least one ancestor.
If you go crazy far enough back (way more than 6,000 years), we all share a common ancestor, a so-called Mitochondrial Eve.
Mitochondrial Eve had exactly two parents, so we're all descended from a specific couple.
That man and woman weren't the only living humans at the time, and they aren't your only ancestors that were alive then, but everybody has that couple (and all the ancestors of that couple) in their family tree.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:23:06 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Are you suggesting that multiple organisms evolved into humans independently of each other?
N_Cat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:38:41 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, it's more than that! If those organisms don't share ancestry either, he's suggesting that life has begun independently multiple times, and convergent evolution has always led to them becoming genetically identical humans!
Because the conditions of two different locations will select for different traits. It's also an incredibly slow and semi-random process given the nature of mutation. Organisms can wind up with similar looking traits (think dolphins and sharks) through covergent evolution, but they won't evolve into genetically compatible members of the same species.
MISCONCEPTION: Evolution only occurs slowly and gradually.
CORRECTION: Evolution occurs slowly and gradually, but it can also occur rapidly. We have many examples of slow and steady evolution โ for example, the gradual evolution of whales from their land-dwelling, mammalian ancestors, as documented in the fossil record. But we also know of many cases in which evolution has occurred rapidly. For example, we have a detailed fossil record showing how some species of single-celled organism, called foraminiferans, evolved new body shapes in the blink of a geological eye, as shown below.
Foram shell shape over time
Similarly, we can observe rapid evolution going on around us all the time. Over the past 50 years, we've observed squirrels evolve new breeding times in response to climate change, a fish species evolve resistance to toxins dumped into the Hudson River, and a host of microbes evolve resistance to new drugs we've developed. Many different factors can foster rapid evolution โ small population size, short generation time, big shifts in environmental conditions โ and the evidence makes it clear that this has happened many times.
I totally accept that. But you haven't explained how rapid evolution could lead to "multiple organisms evolving into humans independently of each other", which is the original claim you were defending.
Show me something, anything, that says that two distinct species could evolve to produce genetically similar populations capable of interbreeding. Speciation branches outward, not inward.
that says that two distinct species could evolve to produce genetically similar populations capable of interbreeding.
You are loading the deck though, I never said "two distinct species". In fact a didn't "say" anything I asked a question which I guess to know it alls means downvote.
But to my original claim/question, why couldn't, given similar circumstances two compatible species evolve independently?
Mutation is still random. The traits selected for are not. Even if two species exhibit convergent evolution and have similar phenotypic expressions, the genotype that produces it will be different. It's just probability; the odds of enough cumulative mutations to cause speciation occurring identically in two different populations is astronomical.
No this is not accurate. As someone who grew up through the Catholic school system I was always taught that many stories in the bible, including Adam and Eve, are not to be taken literally. As the earlier commenter said it is the why not the how.
Same here. 12 years in a Catholic school. We had your regular science classes, and we had religion classes. They were very separated. They even taught us about different contraceptive methods, but they didn't show us how to use a condom like in other schools. We even had philosophy classes. They wanted us to think. It went so well, I stopped being Catholic when I left school.
kebukai ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:41:23 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was in a Catholic school in Spain that had all levels of education, so I spent my youth there. When we were in elementary school the talked about what Christianity is about, and the bible and that stuff, but without making any efforts in telling us that we should believe in it, just that we knew about it.
Then in junior high school they started teaching us about world religions an story of religion.
Finally, in high school they started teaching us about philosophy and humanism, and the teacher was a very religious guy who had studied in a seminar to become priest but ultimately didn't, and he was very often telling us that he didn't personally agree with many of the views, but that we should know and understand them and make a personal choice about our own views and beliefs.
Regardless, by that time I was already agnostic in a very proudly Christian family. I am always grateful to have someone telling me I should believe what I feel is right at a time everyone was telling me I should believe in God and was pondering whether to lie just to be left alone
Well, official doctrine may differ from what actually gets taught. But hear it from Pope Pius XII: "When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents."
R-Guile ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:08:05 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was under the impression the church doctrine somehow said both; that evolution happened, and that Adam was real. It's a bit of a quandary, since the idea is patently absurd, but without Adam and the fall of man, there's no need for Christ. So, if one acknowledges that evolution happened, and Adam and Eve is just a story, the rationale for Christ's sacrifice and redemption is also just a story. If that's the case, somehow Jesus forgot it was just a story and died for nothing, which isn't a compelling way to recruit people.
This is how the relationship between science and religion is. Science tells us how. Religion tells us why. It's a shame more people don't understand this.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 05:18:38 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Same here. We learned real sex ed too. IIRC the typical Bible stuff was taught to younger grades and was basically treated like children's stories. Once we got older we focused on the message of the Bible as a whole, about love and compassion and all that jazz.
Since people are wondering, both my grade school and high school were run by the archdiocese, and my high school was Marianist.
I went to a very similar school too, a Marist one. From reading Wikipedia about the Marianist, is very similar, we just have different founders. But it's all about Mary.
My school was very good too, lots of science and also philosophy. We had religion classes apart from those, where we'd study the religion, along with other religions too. I'm quite satisfied with my education. I'm not even Catholic anymore.
Catholic school K-12 here, I had the same experience. I remember even in high school religion classes we learned that many of the stories in the Bible (Adam & Eve, Noah's Arc, Jonah & the Whale, etc) were not meant to be taken as things that actually happened, but rather focused on the message of the story. We had a mandatory Church History class that was actually really interesting and they were not afraid to hold back on teaching us the good bad and ugly parts of the history of Catholicism. I'm an athiest, but I actually really appreciate the quality education I got attending Catholic school, because my city's public schools are some of the worst in the state.
Totally. I'm not totally up to date on much "official" Catholicism, now - I'm a pretty bad Catholic - but all through my childhood, it was all presented as a more of a philosophy than anything else.
So instead of, "Do this because God commanded you," it was "Do this because it's good."
But obviously I can only speak for my own experiences.
Yeah! The Golden Rule is pretty much the core of most Catholic teaching, which I think is one of the most valuable life lessons that anybody can learn. I attribute most of my core beliefs in life (treat others how you want to be treated, don't judge a book by it's cover, give (to charity) when you can and do it for pure reasons, things like that) to my experience in Catholic school. Again, I'm not religious, but the teachings of Jesus in The New Testament are actually great life lessons (for the most part) and if anyone took to heart what his message was and applied it to their life, they would probably come out better for it. There is certainly corruption within the Church, past and present, but my experience was positive.
Not really. Its more like the Catholic Church was the only source of people capable of doing basic stuff like reading and writing in the region. A whole lot of historical documents only survived because of the Catholic church for example.
Hell, I took a class on religion from a Jesuit university, and part of the lesson plan was learning about the contradictions in the bible. (And not in a 'here's how we explain them' kind of way. They legitimately pointed out that both stories can't be true.)
Cyno01 ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 17:06:34 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So well integrate nonprogressional evolution with Gods creation of Eden... Noahs ark is a problem. Well have to call it early quantum state phenomenon. Only way to fit 5000 species of mammal on the same boat.
This. The Catholic high school I went to was even open-minded about other creeds, and Religion class in Senior year taught you about a lot of the more common ones in an honest, respectful, and meaningful way.
It made me so open-minded that... I became an atheist because I realized that I had never once truly believed in any of it. Especially after reading much of the Old Testament, which is full of high fantasy that wouldn't be out of place in Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings. There's even dragons!
I mean, Jesus was cool, though. All he really wanted was for people to stop being so judgmental to each other, and I guess that's all I really wanted to take away from the whole thing.
I went to private catholic school and we were taught both, and I was quite confused as to which was correct. Seemingly everyone else just kind went "eh, whatever."
I questioned a Jesuit priest about this and he said no doubt there's evolution happening. Then he said we humans developed a soul - or something along those lines. Who was I to argue?
Catholics are not the ones teaching this crap. Catholics as a general rule believe in the truth of scientific findings. Despite their many unscientific beleifs
iSage ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 16:09:52 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I remember going to a christian summer camp (Look Up Lodge) when I was a kid and we had to listen to a speaker who had written a book and handed out pamphlets about all the reasons that evolution couldn't be real. It included a section on why the dinosaurs didn't exist and one of the main anti-evolution arguments was that giraffes couldn't have existed because they have a special bone that makes them be able to bend over to drink so clearly the bone must have been materialized and not developed over time or they would have never been able to live or something. And something about stink bugs or slugs or something.
I also remember one day counting the number of windows on Noah's Ark in 'history' class based on evidence in the Bible.
Thanks Mom & Dad.
Cyno01 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:09:31 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I assume it was an evangelical school? While each private school is different, I have found Catholic schools do a great job teaching science and the basis of evolution under the premise that God orchestrated the big bang.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:25:40 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It was not catholic. We moved a lot and went to private schools all over. They definitely vary, that's for sure.
Because a lot of Christians that believe this also believe that there was no death before Eve and Adam ate the fruit. If there is no death, all animals and Adam and Eve had to have a vegetarian diet.
What? Even if we stipulate Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden with vegetarian dinosaurs, couldn't they have just turned after the forbidden fruit was eaten? Why not just say all the fossils we've found are from the post-fruit carnivorous dinosaurs? They were hardly in the Garden long enough for anything to die and Cain and Abel were certainly killing things.
I don't actually believe this myself, so I really don't know. I homeschool my son so I encounter this thinking a lot and this is the explanation I've been given by people who believe this stuff.
That doesn't even work, because Adam and Eve were literally the last animals to be created. Dinosaurs had to eat plants, but what about lions, bears, wolves, vultures, sharks, and every other meat eater in the world? Why single the T-rex out?
I don't believe any of this, but I homeschool and know people that do. This is the explanation I've been given, that all animals were vegetarian before the fall.
I'm not sure what you mean by "second hell." I don't personally believe this, I just know people who do and this is the explanation I've gotten from them. They believe that when the animals and Adam and Eve were first created, there was no death on earth so all animals would have to be vegetarian.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:40:14 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not sure! It's one of those things that I believed blindly as a child.. but didn't really think about. Then I knew it was wrong because I had never seen or heard of it at any point after.
Maybe because it "proves" that humans and dinosaurs could have coexisted?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:52:26 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because everyone and everything lived in the Garden of Eden all happy like with smiles and butterflies and stuff. Animals only started killing each other afterwards. Apparently ...
They probably used some bastardized explanation pointing to sauropods having pin like teeth used in stripping plants and thus T-Rex's giant non chewing teeth were clearly for stripping plants also- Or something along that line.
Either way, it's clearly ignoring the fact the teeth of many carnivorous theropods are curved backwards and even serrated.
Yeah, but all of those examples (including pandas) have some form of molars to grind down plants. As far as I know, T-rex has no such molars or anything even close to resembling molars.
A lack of molars does not connote carnivorous either. Notice how this shark is more interested in kelp than the meat. Sharks have no molars. Another example of "non-molared" animals eating plants would be crocodiles. Now these animals are still carniverous of course, but their teeth are not the standard by which we should judge any extinct species. At best, we can only assume that dinosaurs were carniverous.
Oh hey, look what I found! An article detailing that paleontologists now believe that most coelurosaurians like the T-Rex were "vegetarian". Interesting.
First off: hypercarnivory does not mean a 100% meat based diet. Opportunistic supplementation of primarily carnivorous diet with plant material is well attested. That one shark happening to go for kelp doesn't mean it's an herbivorous species, or that its teeth are best adapted for plants.
Wikipedia on Coelurosaria:
Coelurosauria is the clade containing all theropod dinosaurs more closely related to birds than to carnosaurs. Coelurosauria is a subgroup of theropod dinosaurs that includes compsognathids, tyrannosaurs, ornithomimosaurs, and maniraptorans; Maniraptora includes birds, the only dinosaur group alive today.
It's a little misleading to only provide the T-Rex an example of coelurosauria. You could have picked Sinornithomimus. You could have picked Caudipteryx. You could have picked a goose. Not all coelurosaurs are like Tyrannosauridae.
Whereas functional considerations and/or explicit modern analogs leave little doubt regarding the diet of some fossil taxa (e.g., hypercarnivory in Tyrannosaurus rex or Smilodon; grazing in horses) (6)...
First paragraph
presumed dietary opportunism potentially including invertebrates and high-caloric plant materials (e.g., fruits, nuts, seeds)
Second paragraph
In addition, we infer carnivory in 24 coelurosaurians (19 with one or fewer confirmed CHTs) representing all of Tyrannosauroidea and Compsognathidae, the derived troodontids Zanabazar, Sinornithoides, Byronosaurus, and Sinovenator, as well as the majority of Dromaeosauridae.
First paragraph of discussion. (Note that troodontids are known for their small, sharp, closely spaced teeth)
On the left side of the chart, note that families Compsognothidae and Tyrannosauridae have undergone no dentary tooth loss (red boxes), while the Dromaeosauridae family has undergone only caudal edentulism (yellow box, tooth loss in back of mouth).
So yes, most coelurosaurs were herbivorous; the T-rex and others with similar dentition were clearly not.
Also, did a ctrl-f for "vegetarian". Zero results in that paper. What were you quoting/reading?
My apologies for quoting "vegetarian". I actually pulled that from the Gizmodo article that linked to the PNAS article. And, apparently, my quick perusal skills and blind trust of a Gizmodo article were ill-advised.
Whereas functional considerations and/or explicit modern analogs leave little doubt regarding the diet of some fossil taxa (e.g., hypercarnivory in Tyrannosaurus rex or Smilodon; grazing in horses)
So, I was too quick to use that. Gizmodo was also off apparently (not exactly the bastion of journalism).
That one shark happening to go for kelp doesn't mean it's an herbivorous species, or that its teeth are best adapted for plants.
I agree, and I actually stated, "Now these animals are still carniverous of course,..."
So leaving the T-Rex mistake aside, the main point I want to make is this: Assuming that an extinct animal was a carnivore can only be assumed, and not known for certain. Though the author of the PNAS article does state that they believe some species, like the T-Rex, to have been undoubtedly carniverous, it is still only conjecture.
The example of the shark was to show that animals with "carniverously-shaped" teeth can eat plants, and therefore it is not hard to believe that a large T-Rex could have done the same and even survived off of the natural agriculture. It does not appear completely out of the question to conclude that the T-Rex, with its violent teeth, could have actually been herbivorous at one point, or many points, or all points in its species existence.
You sound extremely intelligent, and I am therefore highly intimidated by you. I look forward to your response and getting embarrassed.
You sound extremely intelligent, and I am therefore highly intimidated by you. I look forward to your response and getting embarrassed.
I'm really sorry, I really didn't mean to come off like that. Looking at that post, I sound like a bit of a dick. Way too much personal language.
Let's start specifically with evidence of T-Rex carnivory.
The colored lines on the chart show species for which we have Extrinsic Evidence of Diet (EED); red for carnivory, green for herbivory. Extrinsic in this case means evidence beyond the skull and dentition characteristics of the species in question. Table S1 from the study's appendix lists all the EED. T-Rex has evidence in columns 4, 6, 8, and 9. Respectively, these mean other species with T-Rex tooth marks or actual teeth embedded in their bones (4), T-Rex coprolites containing processed bone (6), something they just call "evidence of carnivory" (8), and an absence of extrinsic evidence for herbivory (9). So while they could have eaten plants, it would be an opportunistic supplement to their well-attested carnivorous diet.
In regards to the importance of teeth; the study we've been discussing actually confirms the usefulness of studying dentition in determining diet. They were testing to find a correlation between Extrinsic Evidence of Herbivory and Purportedly Herbivorous Traits (EEH and PHT, too many big words). They did this, showing first and second order correlation for 21 of the 27 PHTs they were examining. These PHTs are found on Table S7 at the very end of appendix I linked. As you can see, all but one of the traits (>10 cervical vertebrae) deal directly with teeth and the jaw. The bottom one on the column of first order correlates is what we're concerned with, though. Ziphodonty is backwards-facing, closely packed serrated teeth; classic carnivore pattern. Losing that arrangement was found to have a high correlation with herbivory, as was a general loss and flattening of teeth. So really, even though it's talking about herbivores, this study further cements dentition as a useful indicator of diet.
I'm really sorry, I really didn't mean to come off like that. Looking at that post, I sound like a bit of a dick. Way too much personal language.
I appreciate your apology. I was just trying to lighten the mood a bit. You don't sound like a jerk.
So it seems clear, with column 4 at the very least, that T-Rex's must have been carnivorous to some extent. Thank you for detailing the data. I've never gotten into the nuanced specifics of dinosaurs, much less dentition so this is brain expanding. I don't think I have much left to argue really.
I'm a creationist, so these facts are important for me to comprehend in light of the Genesis account. It appears that the T-Rex's dentition are best suited for eating meat, yet the bible says that death had not entered into the world until Adam and Eve's sin. So this information combined with your scientific information draws me to conclude that all animals were herbivores before the fall, then after the fall many became carnivores.
Then why did God make the T-Rex with unnecessarily carnivorous teeth? 2 possible explanations: 1. Flatter dentition is not perfectly necessary for larger animals to be herbivores. This explanation doesn't seem to fly so well. I prefer 2: God knew of the future fall of his creation and anticipated it. So that's my perspective on that.
I look forward to your response. Unless you're finished, then good day.
Well, I disagree, but I'm not really interested in or capable of disputing your faith. I'd like to thank you for reading my replies and responding to me in good faith, Monk. Have a good one as well.
Cyno01 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:38:15 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Youre being pedantic and not adressing what /u/Flomo420 said. Its understandable how assumptions could be made, but you have to look at the mouth as a whole, sure gorillas and pandas have big scary looking canines, and could probably give you a nasty bite, but they also have grinding teeth. Tyrannosaurs dont have any sort of herbivorous adaptations to any of their teeth.
Scary teeth /~= carnivore.
Lack of non-scary teeth = carnivore.
jyetie ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:14:04 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Proper carnivores have much sharper and longer teeth and don't have nearly as much space devoted to molars, if they have any at all.
If we want a cousin to compare pandas with, here's a polar bear skull. Polar bears are mainly carnivorous, although bears are omnivores in general. (Even pandas if they don't have another choice) You can see huge differences in their front teeth.
Yeah, don't listen to Horner, he just says shit when he hasn't been in the papers enough. I don't know why you think their body isn't efficient, considering it's made to kill. Their bite pressure is ridiculous. That said, it's very likely they were opportunist, much like lions, using their size to scare off smaller predators and take their kills, but there are enough embedded rex teeth and wounds on bones that at least partially healed to prove that the T-Rex could and would hunt.
It's more that they'd instantly die when they fell over and their 'hands' are next to useless. This is mostly judging by looks, but it doesn't look very stable on its feet either.
lol wut. Dinosaurs were around for millions of years. Rex was at the end. He's literally the culmination of millions of years of evolution to arrive at the perfect predator. Do you think Geese fall over and die? He could get up. His arms were useless because he didn't need them. Jesus, lol.
I mean the animals ARE dinosaurs in Jurassic Park. Sure, they were modified heavily to fit the public's view of dinosaurs, i.e. bigger, less feathers, that's what Hammond wanted. They're heavily modified, they're still dinosaurs.
That was my point, but I couldn't think of a way to put it into words! Thanks.
blaud1 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:49:36 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Saw a history channel show once talking about how the T-rex most likely would follow a herd of animals with a wounded member and wait till the animal was near death before going after. It was unlikely that they would ever run after prey nor be the nimble fighters portrayed in the Jurassic park movies.
Didn't humans do that as well? They'd follow animals until they got tired and rested?
blaud1 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:53:02 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most likely, it's smarter to use less energy tracking something down and save that energy to actually attack, then run like a madman after an animal that's probably way faster than you...
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:30:25 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes because humans are built to outlast not out run.
sfsdfd ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 14:53:47 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sure - lions are scavengers, too. Being at the top of the food chain doesn't make it any easier to hunt and kill prey; it's often easier to find meat that something else has already killed.
Years ago, one of my father's friends found out I liked dinosaurs.
He went on to explain that when dinosaurs existed, the Earth was surrounded by water. This made the atmosphere dense (or something, struggling to remember the details) and allowed for their great size. When God decided to flood the Earth he basically dropped all of the water from the sky. Noah actually brought dinosaurs onto the ark, but because they were so well adapted to the previous environment, they could not survive the post-flood environment.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:16:06 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's amazing that people make these things up and present them as facts.
I was told the exact same thing in school. The earth used to be surrounded in a big bubble of water that made the entire thing like a greenhouse, and that's how humans used to live to hundreds of years old like the Bible says.
Cyno01 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:11:43 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This made the atmosphere dense (or something, struggling to remember the details) and allowed for their great size.
That part is sorta correct, the earths atmosphere in dino times had a lot higher percentage of oxygen. I dont know if it effected the size limits of vertebrates, but i know insects were able to grow larger because of that, meter long dragonflies and 3m long centipedes and such...
R-Guile ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:36:31 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've heard that one, the water-shell concept. When I was a kid my (christian) school brought in a wandering pastor who showed us diagrams of the earth surrounded by a floating shell of ice. No attempt at science whatsoever, just combinations of different myths plus a lot of unearned confidence.
turbie ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:09:16 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My husband went to a christian school. He was taught that men had 1 less rib than women because of god using it to create eve. As an adult he still believed that men were missing a rib. I had to teach him so much.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:15:07 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I remember counting when I was a kid because I was told that in Sunday school, it was the first step in my becoming an atheist. I figured if they lied about something that easy to check what else were they hiding.
MrsMxy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:34:29 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I swear I remember reading something about T. Rex eating coconuts. He apparently used his huge teeth and jaws to crack them open. I just wish I could remember where I heard about it.
Edit: I just Googled it. I'm finding multiple articles about a creationist museum in Kentucky that has an exhibit claiming dinosaurs started out as herbivores (including T. Rex and his coconuts) and only started eating meat after Adam and Eve ate the apple.
What's the point in T-Rex being a vegetarian? What does that have to do with Christianity? I'm 31years old and have been a Christian my whole life. I've never been taught anything like this before. Maybe because I grew up in a Second Baptist Church. But all I can remember people in church saying about Dinosaurs, that I thought was ridiculous was a weird conspiracy theory. Something about fossils really being cow bones and that dinosaur never existed and scientists where trying to take God out of the equation of life. . But even that was just people talking, it was never taught or preached. I just don't understand why T-Rex being a vegetarian is significant to Christianity.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:39:37 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Someone else mentioned that creationists use the argument to prove that they lived peacefully in the garden of Eden before eve ate the apple.
But now I'm wondering why all the other carnivorous animals weren't said to be vegetarian? Snakes. What did they eat? Rocks? Lol.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:15:07 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Logic and reason are not valued by creationists.
Javad0g ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:07:00 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Some of us normal parents that home school teach our children about Christ because we are allowed to. But us normal ones certainly don't teach our children that dinosaurs were vegetarians.
There can be a way to have both a love of God and Christ and a belief that we actually did evolve. Also, dinosaurs are not terrible lizards, they are more closely related to birds and were (If I am not mistaken) largely considered now warm blooded.
Our chicken and the T-Rex had much more in common than you would think.
You know, I never really noticed it but I went to a publicly funded Catholic school (Toronto) and don't remember anything out of the ordinary other than obviously learning about Christianity and Spirituality.
The only teachers with a sort of "agenda" were the younger grade ones who were women over 50, but luckily I missed that boat. Like shit, I remember a couple of my teachers dismissing what a Fryer who came to talk with us every week leading up to confirmation had to say as "extreme".
DionyKH ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:44:28 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
lol. You spelled it fryer, that's great, and only further evidence they didn't try and brainwash you.
Friar.
R-Guile ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:34:22 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well, they did teach him about christianity and spirituality. That's a pretty major offense for a teacher. I can't think of many worse lessons than to tell a child than that using faith is a reliable way of examining the world.
DionyKH ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:35:59 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Learning about them and learning to use them as a way to examine the world are two different things.
You're grasping at straws to somehow be offended/find something wrong.
[deleted] ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 14:32:41 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm kind of pissed that my parents paid for a school like that, now.
Especially if that is the type of punctuation you were taught.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:11:45 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
English isn't my only language. Forgive me.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:06:17 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I noticed you said only and not first. Nice.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:22:00 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because it's a reference to the KJV version of the Bible, which was written in the 1600s, and that's what the word means in that context. You ever hear the phrase "god-fearing" to mean 'devout', or 'earnestly religious?' Same thing.
I know the actual answer unfortunately. I went to school at a private seventh day adventist school. The argument that connects these two thoughts is that Adam's sin changed the world from peaceful and loving where lions and lambs (and apparently dinosaurs) peacefully coexistence into a world of death and bloodshed. So while the t-rex was originally a vegetarian after the apple eating episode God had to give them sharp teach to eat meat or something.
Because they believe that when Adam and Eve ate the fruit and sinned, called The Fall, that brought death, disease, and bloodshed into the world. If death wasn't a part of the pre-Fall world, then T-Rex would have to be vegetarian.
Because the author believes that there was no death before the apple event. So the T. rex would have to be a vegetarian. This isn't a biology text book.
Because the bible teaches that there was no death before original sin. Therefore why would god create a death machine if there was no death?
My church answered that question by saying they never existed. God created the earth with the appearance of age (think tree rings in a newly created tree). God created fossil to make earth look millions of years old on the day it was created.
Yeah, I was gonna say, the whole "to scare children" thing makes no sense.
I mean the whole thing is nonsensical, but the logic of scaring children with stories of vicious "terrible lizards" that are completely extinct and can never hurt you because they don't exist anymore is just a logical leap that even the dumbest kid wouldn't buy.
"I swear to God, William, if you don't get your sass-talking little ass in bed this minute so I can get back to using your mother as a broodmare for Jesus... I will buy up the world's reserve of amber, extract dinosaur DNA from it, recreate the T-Rex and I will let him fuck your couch inside out, you little shit!"
I've never met a kid whose opinion of dinosaurs didn't fall somewhere between "boring" and "holy shit that's the coolest thing ever!". Don't know who these scared kids are.
"This book is very interesting when it comes to tell your children about God, creation and fall. The Dinosaurs just became extinct, just like many other species, but that has nothing to do with particles to people evolution. My little daughter just loved it. I hope she will become a zealous creationist. Many people think that evolutionism is perfectly compatible with Bible teachings. The fact is that there are very good theological and scientific reasons that prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that evolution never happened and the whole concept in itself is incompatible with Bible teachings on topics such as creation, fall, curse, flood, Babel, dispersion, the emergence of civilitations, the alliance with Israel, the promise of a saviour, the life, death and ressurrection of Jesus Christ, redemption and restoration."
[deleted] ยท 63 points ยท Posted at 13:29:56 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Wait? So the answers were there all along? God damnit...
R-Guile ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:47:49 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know, right? I read this whole goddamn boring ass book, and the answers were inside me all along? God just wanted to bump sales of his autobiography?
I converted to conservative christianity when I was in high school and struggled a lot with the creation question. My pastor put it this way:
"Science studies the world through observation and experiment, and we can do neither of those things at the beginning of the world"
While I now believe creationism just isn't true, I thought it was at least reasonable that he admitted straight up that belief in creationism isn't scientific.
Yeah, I do understand that science can predict the past. But if you're coming from a presupposition that things simply worked differently in the past then science is pretty much out the window.
TL;DR - I have no problem with religious people arguing that the past was different from today. Philosophically none of us have any idea if the world sprung into existence 5 minutes ago with all our fossils and memories in place. I do have a problem with those religious people then saying they have a scientific basis for that belief.
You should have a look into astronomy, it's literary all in the past, from hypernovea and super massive blackholes from nearly the beginning of all time to active ice volcanos. Really interesting stuff.
But if you're coming from a presupposition that things simply worked differently in the past then science is pretty much out the window.
But that presupposition (or any presupposition) has no basis in reality. It would just be a guess. So far, all of the evidence we've observed indicates the laws of physics, nature, etc., have always worked the same way. Ergo, based on the evidence, any other assumption would be unfounded. If we are provided with evidence to the contrary, we will adapt accordingly, but science doesn't operate with presuppositions.
My uncle from new Zealand worked as a geologist and when he moved to Canada it just blew his mind that churches in North America refuse to consider evolution. Intelligent design and evolution are by no means mutually exclusive.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:07:47 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The most famous creationist in the world, Ken Ham, is from Australia. It's not a NA specific thing.
Edit: 1 in 4 New Zealanders are self described "creationists".
You know, like when we started using insecticides to combat mosquitoes. God in his infinite wisdom decided to pity the moquites and gave the ones that survived the repeated insecticide applications insecticide resistance. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt that evolution is hokey.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:03:32 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am a non-Christian who has been at an Evangelical school my entire life. I can tell you many arguments they throw out, but after hearing both sides, I honestly have to say the creationist side just falls flat. Evolution is so much more accurate on every level.
[deleted] ยท 46 points ยท Posted at 13:43:03 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes! I had that book as a child! I do not remember that line at all. I can dig up the book and post a picture of the page if anyone's interested
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 06:17:59 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This one was pretty funny:
"This book is fantastic. It's funny, well written, and completely factual. It's absolutely based on fact, and only fools do not recognize this.
The only work that compares would be the 1960's documentary series, The Flintstones. Dinosaurs were man's pets, like dogs are today. This has been proven time and time again. Between the excellent Flintstones series and Ken Ham's Dinosaurs of Eden, we now have everything - all the information required - to understand our reptilian brethren. FIVE STARS."
Well the Flinstines was an excellent series, but so to was Gilligan's Island and the Munsters, but I think we know neither of those have ever been used to justify history, geography, or even common sense. But most of us recognized that when we were 6.
They used science-y words and shit. They must be right.
Trebuh ยท 74 points ยท Posted at 13:33:21 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Book is real, that text has been altered to troll. It wouldn't even mention atheists and homosexuals, hardcore Christians want to create a bubble where children don't realise these things exist.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 14:42:24 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"And that is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Don't eat that. Seriously, trust me on this one. Over there is the tree of life. Living forever sounds awesome in the abstract, but in practice I really really don't recommend it."
"What about the one Ceratosaurus is chewing on?"
"Oh, that's the tree of ad hominem attacks. That's why I made the fruit look like a bunch of dicks."
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 16:03:32 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Thank you for admitting the trolling, shame on you for saying what you did though. That's ridiculous.
Trebuh ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:37:49 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
???
Wtf are you talking about?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:58:41 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
"Hardcore Christians want to create a bubble where children don't realize these things exist."
Did you say this? On what basis?
Trebuh ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:58:36 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
All of my childhood in a Catholic school
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:01:01 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Then you must have gone to a pretty odd school
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:30:47 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sadly it wouldn't surprise me if it was real. It'd be the fundamentalist equivalent of the Saudi textbooks that called Jews apes and Christians swine (google "Saudi textbook controversy" for more... no, it was not an internet rumor).
Fundamentalists of all types love to instill their ignorance into their children from an early age.
I had this book. It is. Whenever I was little, my grandma would buy dinosaur books and redact the "non-christian" stuff out before giving it to me, akin to letter censorship from pow camps.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:21:16 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Very real, I was home schooled in a fucked christian group home and the science curriculum was pure garbage. I can't remember if it was this bat-shit crazy, but basically everything was treated as hypothetical.
Send the pointy toed dinosaur to deal with it, while we stay behind these appropriately planned bushes and eat our red berries while gorillas and spider monkeys worship us.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:06:26 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In other words, they ate lemons and Adam and Eve drank their urine. I think that's what they're getting at. It makes as much sense as the rest of the text, at least.
I know you might be joking, but there is actual evidence of dinosaurs exhibiting such behavior. Can't seem to find the documentary right now, but will post when I do.
[deleted] ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 18:01:17 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Does anyone recognize this guy?
He doesn't cite his sources in that video and I doubt if he even is a paleontologist.
R-Guile ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 19:53:35 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've been to a lecture by this man before, but as you said, he isn't a professional paleontologist. It's sort of how Bill Nye is the science guy. Even though his formal education is in engineering, which didn't require him to know much about quantum astrophysics, but I still trust him because he has a history of being right, or admitting when he's made a mistake.
Overall, I'd recommend him to others as a good science communicator, if not a working scientist.
Well, this is a doctored image (I believe this is the original image), designed to troll, so I'd argue that very few homeschooling materials are like this.
As somebody who was homeschooled, I can confirm that a large number of homeschool books are in fact much like this. Before I got my shit together, I was taught about how evolution is based on no real evidence, I was taught that carbon-14 dating was the only form of long term dating (and therefore the earth was a maximum of 30,000 years old, wtf guys...), I was taught that global warming/climate change was a farce, etc.
It seems (and correct me if I am wrong) that YEC get particularly up in arms over evolution. They do attempt to debunk other things that show the earth as being older than 6000 (or whatever) years old, but they don't seem to display the same fervor to say plate tectonics or astronomy that they do for evolution. Biology books get the "evolution is just a theory" sticker, geology books do not.
Any idea why?
bman214 ยท 71 points ยท Posted at 14:23:06 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
because geology rocks!
[deleted] ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 16:07:16 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
morpen ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 15:16:02 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Plate tectonics is widely regarded as valid science even among YEC, but they explain things like mountain ranges and the breaking up of pangea as being caused by a catastrophic event like a global flood. Its a pretty catch all argument and theres not really much buzz about plate tectonics anyways so no one really cares. You should hear some of the great explanations ive heard for why we can see stars millions of lightyears away though.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:48:06 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
morpen ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:55:03 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've heard what /u/Volpethrope is describing but that's pretty universally panned because it means that God is showing us something that never existed, which is pretty much a lie. Probably the most bizarre explanation is that at some point there was a white hole near the earth near the beginning of time, and when earth passed through the event horizon, millions of years passed outside the wormhole while the earth effectively stood still. Even when I was a YEC I thought that theory was an incredible amount of jumping through hoops to believe that literally everything BUT the earth was billions of years old. Ive also heard that the speed of light was much faster in the past, that there is some sort of shortcut (that is never really explained, just alluded to) that light takes through space, and even that astronomers are completely wrong about our distance to the stars. Overall though Young Earth Creationists are a dying breed so dont worry too much about them. If they're anything like me they'll get to college and get slammed in the gut with reality.
If the speed of light was much faster in the past all the stars would have blown themselves apart.
The whole E=mc2 thing throws a wrench into things when you mess with the speed of light. Increase the speed and you increase the energy.
Bugs me when creationists do this one. If you change that constant, literally everything else would have to change to compensate. Changes for which there is literally no evidence and evidence to the contrary.
I personally like principal axis rotation of asteroids in the asteroid belt. I've literally never seen an answer for that one:
One of the arguments I've heard was that God created the universe as it is with light particles already in transit to earth. So the stars actually are millions of light years away based on what we can observe, but the universe isn't that old. Basically the defense is that God is deceptive. I don't know how common this reasoning actually is, though.
It does happen often in the US. That's because we for some reason have the idea that education should be controlled on a local -- or even individual -- level, not at a federal level.
Because who cares where the fuck we live? That has very basic implications. At the very, very worst all that geologic evidence just makes you give up on YEC.
But evolution has greater implications. It means you aren't a soul. You are totally biological in nature. You are limited. It means you aren't the best thing around. You are a sort of accident. You were not made for any particular purpose.
Evolution is more world-shattering because it tells you more about yourself than geologic evidence.
The thing is, the "science says we have no souls" thing doesn't make sense, even with evolution. Souls are supposed to be intangible, science of today wouldn't show evidence of it. Science does not disprove existence, it can only prove it.
It does make sense, but the way I've explained it does not. I will grant you that.
Having a competing explanation means that some people will rely on it instead of the religious one. There is no true proof that souls don't exist, but if we understand the brain then we may be attracted to that explanation (which seems sufficient for many people) rather than a supernatural one.
And while you're right that science can't disprove souls, it CAN prove that you are at least partially your brain. Even if you have a soul, your brain affects you and your decisions. And your brain evolved.
I don't think anyone argues that the brain affects you or your decisions, but to people who believe in souls, souls directly influence our "shell". No matter what science says, a soul would be the reason why the body does what it does, or something along that line. The same can be said for god and science. Science explains our universe, and god created the universe, so modern science only proves that he exists.
I think it comes from fundamentalists who think the King James translation is 100% the word of god, not a translation of the transcribed "word of god", more than anything else. Many of the deeply religious people who research the Bible and all controversial words that I know, don't believe in creationism. Because the word Yom, which is translated to day in King James, really means a "period of time", used to refer to years, decades, hours and even minutes in other instances.
I didn't know about that, although I suspect there are many examples of words like that.
That's very interesting, though. Many people seem to say that King James is the best translation, and it's pretty damn good writing but I don't have the knowledge to say anything more than that.
There are many words mistranslated to suit the agenda, indeed! One example is currently translated as homosexuality, the word it really says is arsenokoites, a word assumed to be made up by Paul. It has only been translated as homosexuality for 70 years, prior to that it was translated as masturbation. The context of the word arsenokoites actually implies it's talking about male shrine prostitutes along with rapists and other sexual sins.
I believe that YECs are specifically interested in refuting evolution, because they believe that evolution (and abiogenesis, which is often confused as a necessary aspect of evolution) suggests that there was no special creation of man, nor was man created in god's image.
Does evolution address these specifically? No, but as an explanation different to that of god creating humans in his image, it is interpreted as a counter-argument to religious teaching.
Honestly, it's silly and many religious people accept evolution as scientific fact while simultaneously believing in a divine creator.
All that said, YECs do often refute plate tectonics and astronomy to a degree, but because they don't specifically have to do with the creation or development of the special snowflakes known as humans, they don't pay attention to them much.
The explanation I've heard given by YECs about plate tectonics is that the great flood caused a huge geological shift resulting in the different land masses and their continued movement.
As for astronomy, their counter-"argument" is that we can't be certain that the speed of light is constant, thus the starlight problem is not actually an issue.
For some fun reading, look up these and other topics on Conservapedia, where you can find delighful phrases such as "the rigid discipline of creation science", "Simplistic view of science combined with secular leftist utopianism"
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:34:21 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
IMO it all stems from the fact that YECs (and others like them) see evolution as completely opposed to the idea that God created the heavens and the earth. Evolution carries with it strong implications for someone who believes in religion, because it effectively says that "here is a way that we could have come to be without the influence of a god".
These days I think people are a lot more informed/educated/connected than say 200 years ago, so I see a lot of Creatonists use some "scientific" sounding explanation to give their views credibility, since the days of "just believe it because God said it" are over.
Now this is probably obvious, but the fact is these YECs are only tackling evolution because it's the "sexy" topic, it's the one that stirs up emotions in pretty much everyone in a debate, but plate tectonics? Probably not.
Also I have no idea how you would even argue against plate tectonics and astronomy, so if I was a YEC I'd definitely stay away from those topics.
As someone who was also home schooled, I'm calling BS. Homeschooling books are going to be whatever the Homeschooling party orders. My mom got us good books with real facts and none of this religious shit. She homeschooled us to get us out of religious schools, as plenty of people do. It bothers me to no end when people imply that all homeschooling families are crazy zealots with no real science education.
The problem with both you and him is that you're using your personal experience with being homeschooled to explain the experience of a majority of homeschooling.
I was homeschooled by YEC religious zealots. Their entire purpose was to get me and my siblings out of the secular schools. They met with lots of like minded families and pooled resources. From my limited point of view it seemed like everyone who homeschooled did so for these reasons.
But there isn't a centralized homeschooling group. Just small word-of-mouth groups and co-ops. Homeschoolers hear the word 'homeschool' and automatically assume that means homeschooling in the same way as them.
I came here to pretty much say what you did. God, I remember even being such a young, zealous creationist that I called into a radio talk show when they had a couple of filthy evolutionists on, and challenged their sinful science with such questions as "why are there no fossils of missing links?" and "where is the proof of evolution?" to which they basically just laughed. In my young mind, I really got the best of those "scientists." In my adult mind, I wish I could post it to r/cringe.
That's part of the problem. That kids like us were so indoctrinated that learned people could do nothing more than laugh at the ludicrous notions we had about science rather than explain their flaws. It takes special people to put up a good show and correct without mockery.
Bill Nye is pretty good at this when answers questions on Big Think
I don't subscribe to any form of young earth, but my personal belief is that science and faith aren't necessarily at odds. It's a shame to see such closed-mindedness. Who am I to say God (or some higher power) does or does not exist?
Do you happen to have any of those materials still? I'd be interested in seeing them
Zexks ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:01:14 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Google Ken Ham. That should keep you busy for a long time.
That makes zero sense. They're certainly at odds in certain world views, but not others. Kinda ridiculous to make blanket statements. Be careful not to overstep the truthfulness of science. It is wrong alms of as much, if not more, than it is right. It's a search for restive truth, but it is no where close to that truth in any way. The school system has done a bad job in that sense, making science seem more important and truthful than it realistically is in a lot of cases.
My point was that science is the pursuit of truth and origins and how we got here. .. and how things work. And why. This is a ongoing search for "the mind of god. "
Religion is about religion. It's about dogma. It is about holding on to the tradition and writings and conclusions of groups thousands of years old trying to understand their world.
You know science originally started as the search for God's truth right. You also have a very weak understanding of religion. I understand why you would hold that opinion, but I would say that you don't really understand many peoples religions.
Certainly, science and religion were virtually inseparable for most of human history and prehistory. But that is no longer the case. Religion is mostly stagnant in its own established truths and traditions, while science continued searching. In this way, yes, science can be considered more like the search for god's truth, while religion is more about itself and its dogma.
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.
As a philosophy, of course religions holds certain relevant lessons of universal truths of the human condition, but science more closely resembles the age-old active search for truth, while religion mostly found its truth, and protects that truth. It sees the world through the lenses of its teachings. So it is written, so it shall be, religion accepts its truth as infallible and irrefutable. Science loves being wrong. And it continues to evolve as more truth is revealed.
YaboiTJ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:36:14 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've seen the same ones since I was homeschooled, but they aren't at all like that picture. It's also important to note that I've seen dumb shot in non-Christian homeschool material as well, over exaggerating certain claims as fact etc...
lynn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:04:12 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most aren't that bad, I don't think, but it can be surprisingly and frustratingly difficult to find secular curricula.
I would love to go to a homeschooling conference but I'm scared to. The crazy is strong enough on the Facebook homeschooling groups I'm in, or the ones I was in before I found the secular group I'm in now.
Yup. Homeschooled because the local government schools sucked. Same here.
Caitir ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:15:14 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Currently homeschooling my son because we have some of the worst schools in the nation here. Completely secular curriculum. We've actually just finished a unit on Darwin and Evolution- in the first grade.
I actually have a friend with a masters in education who has homeschooled all three of his kids because he lived in the Bible belt and wanted them to get a real education that included things like evolution.
My parents homeschooled me because Memphis City Schools were a joke, and dangerous. Nothing biblical for me!
Dustin- ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:29:07 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was also homeschooled because the schools in my town are awful. However we learned all about how humans were able to spread through the whole earth in 6000 years (including a land bridge to Australia that was destroyed in the biblical flood).
So while they had good intentions, my parents are still crazy. And even crazier are the textbook companies that make these ridiculous claims in their books. Lookin' at you Abeka, Saxon, and Apologia.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:15:14 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Dustin- ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:54:18 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Exploring Creation with Chemistry, right? That's the book I used for chemistry in highschool. I still have it laying around somewhere. Can't remember any fun excerpts from it, though.
And if I remember right, the author of that book (or the one I used anyway) was the wife of the guy who wrote a bunch of other Apologia textbooks. Dr. Wile, right?
Edit: Found the textbook! Turns out this one was written by Dr. Wile, and maybe another textbook I had was written by his wife. Anywho, I checked to see what it had to say about evolution. And found this little tidbit (link 1, link 2). I think it's funny that it's technically correct but they imply the wrong conclusion that evolution is false because species can't change to a different species. Even in highschool I knew that this stuff was 100% BS, so I took pretty much everything I learned then with a grain of salt.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:01:55 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh gosh, I used apologia and abeka as well, apologia for physics, general science, and marine biology and abeka for biology. The abeka biology book should have basically been called "Refuting a evolution" because that's how much anti-evolution content was in it. Thankfully by the time I got to chemistry my mom let me take it as a dual-enrollment at a local community college, and it was a real shocker to actually learn science.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:36:02 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
With the state of public education in some areas I would almost rather educate my future children utilizing the internet. That is unless we can elect officials who actually care about educating the youth.
miby ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 14:49:46 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you!!! Homeschooled under a Christian household here! Nothing like this! NOTHING!
Fonts don't match at all, though it is weird that humans and dinosaurs would be in the same picture together. Can't believe someone would take the time to draw them in just for the heck of it.
Never got why home schooling and christianity go hand in hand all the time. I was home schooled and never once learned anything about the bible or any of that stuff.
459pm ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:02:15 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This isn't exactly Christianity.
R-Guile ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:58:09 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I had a number of homeschooled friends whose parents were entirely unqualified to teach them, but who did it in order to preserve their innocence and to not let them be tainted by "the world." They wanted their kids to be well and truly brainwashed by their insensible bullshit before allowing them to interact freely with other humans.
Because it's usually the fundamentalists that want to keep their children pure of heart and untainted by the evils of the public. That way they can indoctrinate them early and ensure their own personal biases remain.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:33:17 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd love to make lemonade but I only have the strength of one adult male :(
TaliTek ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 16:10:55 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm Christian and this pisses me off so much. What a load of crap.
I really like the version my wife came up with after finding out lemons are a man made hybrid fruit, humans gave life lemons so what does that say about your problems.
MZago1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:08:35 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
chinwag ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:35:49 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lions are cuddly and playful, just like your typical housecat. The bible tells stories of lions being mean because it wants to scare girls and boys. The bible hates children.
I'm christian so obviously creation was taught but it was a really small part, I was way more interested in volcanoes and space and stuff like that. My mom really made an effort to focus on the things I (and my siblings) liked because she thought that public schools kill excitement for learning and didn't want to see that happen to us
miby ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:26:51 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My parents allowed us to take on any kind of extra subjects in addition.
so I took about 200 art classes in my high school years! :)
Yeah, what's actually mildly infuriating is how people continuously associate homeschooling with religious radicalism.
I know multiple homeschooling families and none of them were more than your garden-variety Christian. All the kids were very smart. I went to college with two of them and they did very well socially.
Your girlfriend is not necessarily most. That's an anecdote, not evidence.
Like I said, I know three entire families just from personal life and I'm an anarchist who hangs out with a lot of unschooling and homeschooling crowds who have political or educational reasons to homeschool.
That's not most either, but I'd say it's a larger representation.
Of course they're weird to you. Everyone else you've ever met has had a relatively standardized childhood/childhood education which you share with them.
Homeschoolers don't. They may as well be foreigners to you.
Every homeschool kid I've ever known has been in for religious reasons.
I don't know how many you've known but I think I've known more. That's sort of what I was getting at with my last comment.
I just have to say that I was homeschooled and in one of my brothers classes at a friend's house they tried to teach something similar and we both broke down laughing at how stupid it was. Not all homeshcoolers are such bigots but a lot are.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:52:00 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is from the book "Dinosaurs of Eden" by creationist Ken Ham.
Actual serious question, please hear me out before reacting. I was raised Catholic and still go to church with family from time to time. I also firmly believe in evolution bases on scientific evidence.
I've never understood why creationism is so at odds with evolution. It doesn't seem like anyone in the Church has ever discussed a way to reconcile these two theories. I know the Bible says God created the earth in seven days but I've always believed that the Bible is about communicating the message, rather than taking it literally. Can't evolution happen because that's the way God created the universe, to guide itself through evolution rather than Him intervening in every miniscule change.?
Could those seven days, in God's frame of reference, have between millions of years in our frame of reference? Couldn't Adam and Eve, while not literally being created from the dust on the ground, represent the very first beings that reached the point in their evolution where they could be classified as 'intelligent life' and the Garden of Eden was the area/environment that allowed this to happen?
In my opinion/experience, the people that try to pit both ideas against each other are either bible literalists or the sort of atheist that you dont feel like talking to anyway. You actually bring up a great point!
june606 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:33:02 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Adam and Eve shouldn't be so reassured in their righteous roles. Let's face it - they are in close proximity to dangerous dinosaurs and not far from other mutant beings.
This is the perfect intro to a horror film where an unexpected and horrifying event must precede the titles.
Everyone knows that homosexuals tried to disprove the vegetarian dinosaur theory because dinosaurs believed in good Christian ideals and wouldn't let them marry.
jeez
Jhrek ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:46:24 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Unbelievable, a dinosaur eating multiple lemons, whole, all at once?? My face goes all puss when i think of even just a single warhead. Either than dinosaur has no taste buds, or is in for quite a surprise.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:33:59 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Now I know why I don't want kids, the bisexual demons command that I would hate at least 50% of them XD
I grew up in a Southern Baptist home and my parents taught us that Satan placed dinosaur bones in the ground to fool humans and get them to stray to God. They also told us that we needed to memorize the answer the school taught us so we could pass the test but that the real truth of dinosaurs is because of Satan.
No hold up I can take idiots believing people living alongside Dinosaurs. As stupid as those idiots are. But look at how FUCKING SMALL A DEINONYCHUS WAS
I was sent to a ranch outside of Escalante, Utah (turn-a-bout) and some of the staff there were very religious. One of the staff members was this older cowboy who was convinced that the government planted dinosaur bones to discredit religion. Whether or not the text is real, people still believe some crazy stuff. On another note, while I was there I was asked if I was molested as a kid because I said that "Spongebob doesn't promote homosexuality." That was quite the experience.
I'm a Christian and this made me cringe not only due to how hateful it is to others who don't happen to be Christian, but due to how stupid it is. (note: I belive in evolution)
Here, I replied this to someone else, but you can read it too, I'll even add a bit.
No it's not. It's just "cool" to talk bad about it.
It's pretty "cool" on r/Atheism to shit talk everyone with differing opinions. But think what you want.
Lemme start by saying that obviously this doesn't apply to all people that go on that sub, and this is really just a broad opinion on r/Atheism as a whole. And I'm hoping that this is gonna be an actual conversation.
I used to be subbed to r/atheism on my other account. I eventually realized that a good 70-80% of the content there is just bashing religion and anybody that does believe in it. It's full of "intellectuals" who think that because they don't believe in a god they're automatically better than others that do. I have no issue with Atheism, or any religion, I have an issue when it becomes the thing that defines people.
I'm sure that r/atheism probably does some good stuff, but the majority of stuff I see everytime I look on that subreddit is stuff like "Argued with this idiot about religion today" or "Come protest to remove under God from the bills" or just circlejerk comments that just bash religion and how stupid people are.
I've seen some incredible things there too though, I remember once someone from some Middle Eastern country posted and asked for help escaping the country due to its persecution of atheists, and the subreddit helped him get to Sweden I believe. That's good, that's a good thing.
To be completely honest, ALL of Reddit is a pretty big circlejerk. And I suppose"cancer" could be construed as an exaggeration, and it is. The real issue I have with that subreddit is how shitty it treats people with different thoughts, ESPECIALLY those who believe in their own gods, atheism is all about being open minded, but I don't really see atheists backing down from arguments and being the bigger person, always wanting the last word. And of course it's not all atheists, probably not even the majority, but they're the ones people see and hear. The toxic part of that community is who people think of when you say "atheist".
As a final, pretty drastic example I'll reference 4chan. Look at R9k or B or Pol. The boards aren't inherently toxic, but the way they think, the way they perceive everything and everyone around them is what makes them toxic to most people. It's the same thing with Atheism. The idea is fine, great even. Believe or don't believe what you want, but as soon as you start condemning others for their beliefs you get a problem. As soon as people accept it as fine to do that, it only gets worse.
I used to define myself as atheist, always trying to trump those dumb Christians, thinking I was better than them. That I was smarter. That attitude is toxic. And unfortunately many atheists have that attitude. Those are my real issues with that subreddit, but it's not only that subreddit. I feel the same way about Redpill, and foreveralone, and a bunch of other subreddits.
Sorry if this is kind of poorly written, I'm at school so I wrote this off and on.
I know what you're talking about; there was a short time where I thought I had become become better than others because of losing my beliefs. I too had to quit that, and unsubbed too, but it was mostly because I feel I had got my fill.
I looked there again and I don't think I see what you do . Maybe years ago when it was a default sub.... maybe.
A third of posts are "coming out"/family issues, a third are pro-science/pro-atheism news articles, and a third are maybe satirical pictures making fun of some ridiculous religious beliefs.
But it's atheism. You go there to talk about atheism, and often consequently, anti religion . If you go there to tell people they're wrong with some low effort anti-atheism post, yeah you're gonna get flamed (as you would if you went to /r/Overwatch and submitted a post on how it's never gonna be as good as Halo,for some reason).
Most the people there ARE knowledgeable on the subject. Some might come across as snarky, (like Reddit in general, as you said) but there's plenty of opportunity for legitimate conversation.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:06:51 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Every time I see people saying things like this, I ask them to explain what is there on the front page right now that they find so abhorrent. Yes, this particular image in the OP is over there, too, but that just shows that things like this are not confined to /r/atheism. What is over there now that you find to be "a special kind of cancer"?
Nobody ever answers this. They just answer in vagueries like "Um well they are all just neckbeards angry at their parents," etc., without linking to anything specific that is supposedly so horrible.
Lemme start by saying that obviously this doesn't apply to all people that go on that sub, and this is really just a broad opinion on r/Atheism as a whole. And I'm hoping that this is gonna be an actual conversation.
I used to be subbed to r/atheism on my other account. I eventually realized that a good 70-80% of the content there is just bashing religion and anybody that does believe in it. It's full of "intellectuals" who think that because they don't believe in a god they're automatically better than others that do. I have no issue with Atheism, or any religion, I have an issue when it becomes the thing that defines people.
I'm sure that r/atheism probably does some good stuff, but the majority of stuff I see everytime I look on that subreddit is stuff like "Argued with this idiot about religion today" or "Come protest to remove under God from the bills" or just circlejerk comments that just bash religion and how stupid people are.
I've seen some incredible things there too though, I remember once someone from some Middle Eastern country posted and asked for help escaping the country due to its persecution of atheists, and the subreddit helped him get to Sweden I believe. That's good, that's a good thing.
To be completely honest, ALL of Reddit is a pretty big circlejerk. And I suppose"cancer" could be construed as an exaggeration, and it is. The real issue I have with that subreddit is how shitty it treats people with different thoughts, ESPECIALLY those who believe in their own gods, atheism is all about being open minded, but I don't really see atheists backing down from arguments and being the bigger person, always wanting the last word. And of course it's not all atheists, probably not even the majority, but they're the ones people see and hear. The toxic part of that community is who people think of when you say "atheist".
As a final, pretty drastic example I'll reference 4chan. Look at R9k or B or Pol. The boards aren't inherently toxic, but the way they think, the way they perceive everything and everyone around them is what makes them toxic to most people. It's the same thing with Atheism. The idea is fine, great even. Believe or don't believe what you want, but as soon as you start condemning others for their beliefs you get a problem. As soon as people accept it as fine to do that, it only gets worse.
I used to define myself as atheist, always trying to trump those dumb Christians, thinking I was better than them. That I was smarter. That attitude is toxic. And unfortunately many atheists have that attitude. Those are my real issues with that subreddit, but it's not only that subreddit. I feel the same way about Redpill, and foreveralone, and a bunch of other subreddits.
Sorry if this is kind of poorly written, I'm at school so I wrote this off and on. And like I said, maybe Atheism changed since last time I was there more than 6 minutes, it was a few years ago.
Yeah, but if you aren't content with the state of something you should try to change it. 999 times of 1000 that comment will be ignored but fuck, I'm at school already not doing work, so I might as well spend my time commenting on Reddit.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:08:39 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What infuriates me about this is without scientists who cared about observations and measurements, the illustrator wouldn't even know what a T-Rex looks like. It's like they stole science and bastardized it to their whim. Disgusting.
I am laughing my ass off imagining some woman trying to explain to little Timmy how a velociraptor would use his claws to peel lemons or some shit. And then the T-Rex stomps them into lemonade for god's servants. And little timmy is just like "yo full of shit"
I remember reading this book growing up (for fun, mostly just liked the pictures). I wouldn't go as far to call it a "textbook." Maybe a centimeter in thickness.
Ekrank ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:52:36 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Scientists"
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:56:37 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I actually remember reading this when I was younger. It's not a textbook, just some generic pro-christian kid's book. I'll try to find it, but I doubt I'll be able to.
PicturElements ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:30:18 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
We've gotten a lot of reports on this one.
We're not taking this down just yet for the following reasons:
It's mildly infuriating. Be it a troll text, or a skewed view on the world (according to a majority of the population, atheist or theist), it's still annoying. It's extreme enough that even most religious people would take a stand against it.
The comments here are generally light-hearted and the discussions are largely civilized. Please report any comments that aren't.
Also, this is just a reddit post. Don't get up in arms and taunt us or any other users if you think differently.
peanutismint ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 18:31:32 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You should be taking it down because it's been proven to be fake, not because it's mildly infuriating.
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 21:24:47 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
PicturElements ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 21:37:17 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That would be removed. The illustrations in the post are real, and they display humans and dinosaurs coexisting, with the dinosaurs being vegetarians.
The textbook in itself is still mildly infuriating to almost any non-creationist, which warrants approval by us mods.
warlike_smoke ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 21:42:16 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Then this post should be removed and the original textbook page should be posted in its place.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 17:41:44 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't understand this. If it's a joke, then what's annoying about it? And why does it make a difference if people would object to it if it was real? I understand wanting to keep the post up if you think the discussion is good but this justification for the content is kind of odd and reaching a bit.
RadarLakeKosh ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 05:43:13 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a religious person who came to take a stand against this, I support your decision to leave the post up. There's no point denying science, based on our God-given powers of observation, and perpetuating a worldview that has no basis in fact.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 08:02:47 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
RadarLakeKosh ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:40:05 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Okay, okay, so I do think there's a God who can do all kinds of things that would defy human logic and observations of physics.
I still think that's a lot less ridiculous than believing against all kinds of evidence to the contrary that there were vegetarian dinosaurs running around at the same time as modern humans.
Lillestoel ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:03:29 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Now this is proper modding! I hate it when mods abuse their power and remove every little controversial thing that comes along...
Sapigo ยท -16 points ยท Posted at 19:28:49 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You're a dumbass plain and simple.
PicturElements ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 19:33:24 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you for your input. Mods and ordinary users alike love to hear other people call them dumbasses!
Sapigo ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 19:37:58 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You're very welcome.
[deleted] ยท 1090 points ยท Posted at 12:43:02 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There's no way this can be real.
CameraMan1 ยท 977 points ยท Posted at 13:30:47 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I believe this is the original image
[deleted] ยท 597 points ยท Posted at 14:18:25 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I remember a man coming to talk to my class once about dinosaurs. He had a whole spiel about T. Rexes being vegetarians. Mainly, saying their teeth were for plants. I've thought about it periodically and wondered why I've never heard anything else on it. It was a Christian school.
I'm kind of pissed that my parents paid for a school like that, now.
Forr145 ยท 413 points ยท Posted at 14:58:37 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I just want to take a moment to say not all of them are this bad. I went to private catholic school and we learned real science. Evolution, the Big Bang, all that good stuff.
Beingabummer ยท 496 points ยท Posted at 15:36:03 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Catholics believe in evolution. Their view is more like evolution explains the how and religion the why.
Veggiemon ยท 108 points ยท Posted at 16:08:04 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah they usually get on board it just sometimes takes a while
Titanosaurus ยท 38 points ยท Posted at 18:56:17 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I'm a firm believer that galileo screwed himself over. Not with his heliocentric views, but rather because he was an asshole. I don't have any evidence of that, only speculation because galileo was
executed[sentenced to community service], but the discussion still occurred. I think what is more likely, is that galileo wasexecuted[sentenced to community service] for other reasons, and the heliocentric agenda was buried because of its association with galileo.But I could be wrong. The very loud Christians who prefer ignorance over enlightenment make the rest of us look bad. :-/
qwertzinator ยท 59 points ยท Posted at 19:01:21 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Galileo was not executed. He died a natural death at 77.
Titanosaurus ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 19:04:20 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I believe he was on house arrest, no?
BlenderTacos ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 20:58:31 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's not execution though
agentbarron ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 20:58:55 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You were literally just saying he was executed
[deleted] ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 21:14:41 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
soiedujour ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 05:57:28 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm relatively thick-skinned, but if someone publishes a book mocking my opinion and named me "Simplico" I'd be rather shitty.
Barium_Enema ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:04:20 on May 30, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks for greatly expanding what little I knew about Galileo's imprisonment.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:39:12 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I believe that modern historiography generally agrees that Galileo had options for advancing heliocentrism without making so much trouble for himself but chose to be... let's say "abrasive" instead. I don't think heliocentrism was completely apart from the matter but it's widely accepted that his own inflammatory behavior had a lot to do with how things went down.
KOM ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 22:46:50 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
AM I BEING DETAINED?!
chris92253 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:23:58 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I THOUGHT THIS WAS AMERICA?!?!
Jtk317 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:57:42 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Are you thinking of excommunicated?
cooldudeconsortium ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 16:19:44 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Read down. Catholicism officially still insists that Adam and Eve were two real people who we're all descended from, which evidence firmly contradicts.
PerpetualDick ยท 93 points ยท Posted at 16:24:58 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In an incredibly general and vague way we are technically descended from two people who some call Adam and Eve. If you want to open a 6000+ year old can of worms, look up Adam's first wife Lilith.
akunis ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 16:29:36 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But if Adam was the first man and Eve was made from his rib, where did Lilith come from?
PerpetualDick ยท 58 points ยท Posted at 16:37:18 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The dirt as well and/but she had as much self determination and will as Adam so she was cast out. God then made Eve from his rib so she would be subservient to Adam but that didn't go well either.
hellenicaspie ยท 60 points ยท Posted at 16:45:00 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Almost like women are people with their own minds or something.
BoRamShote ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:00:29 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Almost.
Cyno01 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:02:51 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Pfft, good one you atheist hippy...
PerpetualDick ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:05:23 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know right, shocking!
Titanosaurus ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 18:57:26 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Easy there tumblerina.
Aethermancer ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 17:32:45 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
God isn't very good at this is he?
PerpetualDick ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:04:14 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Apparently he went through a lot of Adams before he realised that trying to speak to him makes his head explode.
banjo2E ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:33:31 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
IIRC the rib thing is an ancient mistranslation - it's supposed to be "side." The idea being not so much that Eve would be subservient than that the two of them would actually stay together this time. Side by side, if you will.
Which, to God's credit, is pretty much what happened, but there wasn't actually anything preventing either of them from making other, unrelated poor decisions.
ferrarilover102899 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:08:17 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
the catholic church
mattfloyd ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 16:46:55 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I thought we traced back to a single Eve, but there were probably a whole lot of Adams. Great great great great great great great great great grandma Eve was a ho.
Cyno01 ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 17:03:14 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yup. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve
PerpetualDick ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:04:54 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, your great great etc grandma Eve was a ho!
... wait...
R-Guile ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:02:58 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There's a single woman from whom our mitochondrial DNA derives. That doesn't mean there was ever just one man or woman. It's more likely that the human population reached a bottleneck, and the genetics of this one woman became dominant. I've always thought "Mitochondrial Eve" was a pretty misleading name, since its really not the same idea at all.
I appreciate that the Wiki page has a list of misconceptions, but they all could have been avoided with better, less sensationalist terminology.
mattfloyd ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:25:19 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I mean technically we all trace back to the same single celled organism so I guess that would be our Eve if you wanted to take it super literally.
idlevalley ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:10:55 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So any differences in human mitochondrial DNA are mutations that have occurred since "mitochondrial Eve" (whenever that was.)?
Owyn_Merrilin ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:54:17 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They've been able to trace back to a single genetic Adam, but only in the sense that he's the oldest common human ancestor that everyone alive shares today. It doesn't mean, however, that everyone followed in a straight line from one of his kids. More like he had a lot of kids, and those kids had kids with people not descended from him (thus adding to his descendants in addition to theirs), and those kids had kids with people not descended from him, until eventually everyone on the planet was distantly related to this one guy. It's kind of like how today a massive portion of Asia is directly descended from Genghis Khan. He wasn't the only man around at the time, or the only one to successfully breed, but his descendants interbred with the descendants of so many of his contemporaries that their descendants are all related not through them, but through him.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:47:35 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Only if I happen to be a Jew living in Babylon somewhere around the 3 to 5th century After Christ! Which is a good ~500 to 800 years after the Old Testament was translated into Greek as the Septuagint.
That Lilith stuff is way after the Roman banishment of Jews in the 70's AD.
It aint a can of worms at all.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:06:47 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
N_Cat ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 17:16:54 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, they're saying:
If you choose two random people on earth, and go enough generations back, they share at least one ancestor.
If you go crazy far enough back (way more than 6,000 years), we all share a common ancestor, a so-called Mitochondrial Eve.
Mitochondrial Eve had exactly two parents, so we're all descended from a specific couple.
That man and woman weren't the only living humans at the time, and they aren't your only ancestors that were alive then, but everybody has that couple (and all the ancestors of that couple) in their family tree.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:23:06 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
rednax1206 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 17:54:57 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Are you suggesting that multiple organisms evolved into humans independently of each other?
N_Cat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:38:41 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, it's more than that! If those organisms don't share ancestry either, he's suggesting that life has begun independently multiple times, and convergent evolution has always led to them becoming genetically identical humans!
Logical_Psycho ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:41:11 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Why not? If the conditions were right for it to happen once why not multiple times in different locations?
cluttered_desk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:16:42 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because the conditions of two different locations will select for different traits. It's also an incredibly slow and semi-random process given the nature of mutation. Organisms can wind up with similar looking traits (think dolphins and sharks) through covergent evolution, but they won't evolve into genetically compatible members of the same species.
Logical_Psycho ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:25:37 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
no
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/misconceptions_faq.php#a5
MISCONCEPTION: Evolution only occurs slowly and gradually.
CORRECTION: Evolution occurs slowly and gradually, but it can also occur rapidly. We have many examples of slow and steady evolution โ for example, the gradual evolution of whales from their land-dwelling, mammalian ancestors, as documented in the fossil record. But we also know of many cases in which evolution has occurred rapidly. For example, we have a detailed fossil record showing how some species of single-celled organism, called foraminiferans, evolved new body shapes in the blink of a geological eye, as shown below.
Foram shell shape over time
Similarly, we can observe rapid evolution going on around us all the time. Over the past 50 years, we've observed squirrels evolve new breeding times in response to climate change, a fish species evolve resistance to toxins dumped into the Hudson River, and a host of microbes evolve resistance to new drugs we've developed. Many different factors can foster rapid evolution โ small population size, short generation time, big shifts in environmental conditions โ and the evidence makes it clear that this has happened many times.
cluttered_desk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:42:24 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I totally accept that. But you haven't explained how rapid evolution could lead to "multiple organisms evolving into humans independently of each other", which is the original claim you were defending.
Show me something, anything, that says that two distinct species could evolve to produce genetically similar populations capable of interbreeding. Speciation branches outward, not inward.
Logical_Psycho ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:34:31 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You are loading the deck though, I never said "two distinct species". In fact a didn't "say" anything I asked a question which I guess to know it alls means downvote.
But to my original claim/question, why couldn't, given similar circumstances two compatible species evolve independently?
cluttered_desk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:29:07 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
First of all, I haven't downvoted you. Secondly, why complain, you're only at -2?
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/misconceptions_faq.php#a2 "The process of mutation, which generates genetic variation, is random"
Mutation is still random. The traits selected for are not. Even if two species exhibit convergent evolution and have similar phenotypic expressions, the genotype that produces it will be different. It's just probability; the odds of enough cumulative mutations to cause speciation occurring identically in two different populations is astronomical.
Logical_Psycho ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:33:45 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Its not a complaint it is an observation, I just find it funny that a question is downvited.
As to your answer that makes sense.
cluttered_desk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:14:24 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks man. This was fun, have a good one.
kawzeg ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:24:45 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So, who were the ancestors of these multiple points?
QuadrupleEntendre ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:29:21 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
seriously its like im reading something written by crack smokers
PerpetualDick ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:03:16 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, I actually believe in Last Thursdayism.
NemesisKismet ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:33:35 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well I chuckled.
Smiller0696 ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 18:32:48 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No this is not accurate. As someone who grew up through the Catholic school system I was always taught that many stories in the bible, including Adam and Eve, are not to be taken literally. As the earlier commenter said it is the why not the how.
flyinthesoup ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 20:17:43 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Same here. 12 years in a Catholic school. We had your regular science classes, and we had religion classes. They were very separated. They even taught us about different contraceptive methods, but they didn't show us how to use a condom like in other schools. We even had philosophy classes. They wanted us to think. It went so well, I stopped being Catholic when I left school.
kebukai ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:41:23 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was in a Catholic school in Spain that had all levels of education, so I spent my youth there. When we were in elementary school the talked about what Christianity is about, and the bible and that stuff, but without making any efforts in telling us that we should believe in it, just that we knew about it.
Then in junior high school they started teaching us about world religions an story of religion.
Finally, in high school they started teaching us about philosophy and humanism, and the teacher was a very religious guy who had studied in a seminar to become priest but ultimately didn't, and he was very often telling us that he didn't personally agree with many of the views, but that we should know and understand them and make a personal choice about our own views and beliefs.
Regardless, by that time I was already agnostic in a very proudly Christian family. I am always grateful to have someone telling me I should believe what I feel is right at a time everyone was telling me I should believe in God and was pondering whether to lie just to be left alone
2074red2074 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:22:16 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In the US many schools don't talk about how to use condoms. Usually they just tell you that they always fail all the time.
CAPS_GET_UPVOTES ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:16:43 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not in my public school.
cooldudeconsortium ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:47:50 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well, official doctrine may differ from what actually gets taught. But hear it from Pope Pius XII: "When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents."
R-Guile ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:08:05 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was under the impression the church doctrine somehow said both; that evolution happened, and that Adam was real. It's a bit of a quandary, since the idea is patently absurd, but without Adam and the fall of man, there's no need for Christ. So, if one acknowledges that evolution happened, and Adam and Eve is just a story, the rationale for Christ's sacrifice and redemption is also just a story. If that's the case, somehow Jesus forgot it was just a story and died for nothing, which isn't a compelling way to recruit people.
boundone ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:58:33 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Officially" as in no one has officially said otherwise. Catholic schools do not teach this, they teach evolution as how god created life.
bluecatfish2 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:08:01 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is how the relationship between science and religion is. Science tells us how. Religion tells us why. It's a shame more people don't understand this.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 05:18:38 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wrong
bluecatfish2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:17:36 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Explain. (When I say religion I'm grouping atheism with it too)
upwithevil ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:23:11 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Why with the use of a special magic spell a mere cracker can evolve into jerky!
Cyno01 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:04:02 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I went to my wifes cousins first communion last weekend, there was some hymn about the eating of the flesh.
It was pretty fucking metal.
llambda_of_the_alps ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:02:58 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have a friend who convinced her friends growing up in Mississippi that Catholics were all anemic and that's why we had to drink blood every Sunday.
DumbNameIWillRegret ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:05:37 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A lot of Christian songs either have death metal lyrics, or love song lyrics
desmondhasabarrow ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 15:53:50 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Same here. We learned real sex ed too. IIRC the typical Bible stuff was taught to younger grades and was basically treated like children's stories. Once we got older we focused on the message of the Bible as a whole, about love and compassion and all that jazz.
Since people are wondering, both my grade school and high school were run by the archdiocese, and my high school was Marianist.
flyinthesoup ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:23:53 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I went to a very similar school too, a Marist one. From reading Wikipedia about the Marianist, is very similar, we just have different founders. But it's all about Mary.
My school was very good too, lots of science and also philosophy. We had religion classes apart from those, where we'd study the religion, along with other religions too. I'm quite satisfied with my education. I'm not even Catholic anymore.
_Sterling_Archer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:26:45 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Shouts out to other Marianist High Schools
SimeonsDilemma ยท 52 points ยท Posted at 16:20:58 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Catholic school K-12 here, I had the same experience. I remember even in high school religion classes we learned that many of the stories in the Bible (Adam & Eve, Noah's Arc, Jonah & the Whale, etc) were not meant to be taken as things that actually happened, but rather focused on the message of the story. We had a mandatory Church History class that was actually really interesting and they were not afraid to hold back on teaching us the good bad and ugly parts of the history of Catholicism. I'm an athiest, but I actually really appreciate the quality education I got attending Catholic school, because my city's public schools are some of the worst in the state.
mainfingertopwise ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 17:21:12 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Totally. I'm not totally up to date on much "official" Catholicism, now - I'm a pretty bad Catholic - but all through my childhood, it was all presented as a more of a philosophy than anything else.
So instead of, "Do this because God commanded you," it was "Do this because it's good."
But obviously I can only speak for my own experiences.
SimeonsDilemma ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 17:38:51 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah! The Golden Rule is pretty much the core of most Catholic teaching, which I think is one of the most valuable life lessons that anybody can learn. I attribute most of my core beliefs in life (treat others how you want to be treated, don't judge a book by it's cover, give (to charity) when you can and do it for pure reasons, things like that) to my experience in Catholic school. Again, I'm not religious, but the teachings of Jesus in The New Testament are actually great life lessons (for the most part) and if anyone took to heart what his message was and applied it to their life, they would probably come out better for it. There is certainly corruption within the Church, past and present, but my experience was positive.
JacksUnkemptColon ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:33:10 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The Golden Rule is pretty much the core of all morality, religious based or not.
SimeonsDilemma ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:50:11 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
True!
MR_PENNY_PIINCHER ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 15:40:49 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The Vatican has accepted evolution and the origins of the universe as scientific fact for decades now.
koke84 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:57:05 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Centuries
cumfarts ยท -21 points ยท Posted at 16:08:45 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Was that about the same time all the kid fucking got started?
R-Guile ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:09:03 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, that started a few thousand years back.
stringerbbell ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:31:30 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The jesuits know what's up.
no-running ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 16:44:40 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, the Big Bang theory was originally proposed by a Catholic monk, wasn't it?
llambda_of_the_alps ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:04:06 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes it was
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:58:47 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Why did you start that comment with "I mean"?
no-running ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:14:35 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Why is that an issue? o_O
ShadowSlayer74 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:18:25 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think it's because the statement feels like it kinda pops out of the middle of a thought and the rest didn't get posted.
At least that's how it feels to me, it reads find and makes sense but feels odd.
no-running ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:38:31 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fair enough I guess, that's just how my peers and I talk, so it just felt natural.
ShadowSlayer74 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:46:16 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It works in a conversation, usually because you are following up on a previous comment. It just kinda reads a bit weird.
duderex88 ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 15:06:05 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Jesuits?
Forr145 ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 15:16:04 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, just a regular Roman Catholic school. Run by the diocese, but there weren't any nuns or priests teaching.
GalactusPoo ยท 46 points ยท Posted at 15:32:28 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Catholics are pretty pro-science
urbanzomb13 ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 15:41:46 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A lot of scientific discoveries from the past were from Catholics.
gurenkagurenda ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 15:48:01 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, that's in part because there was a good chunk of time when it was dangerous not to be a Catholic in large parts of the world.
ALoudMouthBaby ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 18:02:10 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not really. Its more like the Catholic Church was the only source of people capable of doing basic stuff like reading and writing in the region. A whole lot of historical documents only survived because of the Catholic church for example.
ImTheBestMayne ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:35:02 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Related
Abbacoverband ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:51:14 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Same here! And confirmed good science. I never knew about the bad science Christian stereotype until mid-way through high school.
m_dizzle ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 15:24:39 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Went to a Jesuit school, got a great education
the_ocalhoun ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 16:14:03 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hell, I took a class on religion from a Jesuit university, and part of the lesson plan was learning about the contradictions in the bible. (And not in a 'here's how we explain them' kind of way. They legitimately pointed out that both stories can't be true.)
Cyno01 ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 17:06:34 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So well integrate nonprogressional evolution with Gods creation of Eden... Noahs ark is a problem. Well have to call it early quantum state phenomenon. Only way to fit 5000 species of mammal on the same boat.
the_ocalhoun ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:11:41 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Settle down, River.
duderex88 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:43:44 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have heard a ton of good stories about how good they are with providing good educations
mwjulian14 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:15:12 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I did as well. My dad actually taught my high school biology course at this school and he taught the Big Bang and Evolution. Vincentian Catholics.
Vid-szhite ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:52:10 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This. The Catholic high school I went to was even open-minded about other creeds, and Religion class in Senior year taught you about a lot of the more common ones in an honest, respectful, and meaningful way.
It made me so open-minded that... I became an atheist because I realized that I had never once truly believed in any of it. Especially after reading much of the Old Testament, which is full of high fantasy that wouldn't be out of place in Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings. There's even dragons!
I mean, Jesus was cool, though. All he really wanted was for people to stop being so judgmental to each other, and I guess that's all I really wanted to take away from the whole thing.
ALoudMouthBaby ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:00:49 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Catholic schools are very different from Christian schools.
romulusnr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:18:15 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I went to private catholic school and we were taught both, and I was quite confused as to which was correct. Seemingly everyone else just kind went "eh, whatever."
djragemuffin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:52:04 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The Big Bang was first theorized by a Catholic Priest, actually.
cyberight ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:51:38 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I questioned a Jesuit priest about this and he said no doubt there's evolution happening. Then he said we humans developed a soul - or something along those lines. Who was I to argue?
Alliknowisnothing ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:32:01 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Mine did as well. But treated us like we were prisoners. Shit even prisoners get more exercise than one gym class per week.
Forr145 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:36:38 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
We also had one or two gym classes a week. But we always had a recess
flyonthwall ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:42:34 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Catholics are not the ones teaching this crap. Catholics as a general rule believe in the truth of scientific findings. Despite their many unscientific beleifs
iSage ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 16:09:52 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I remember going to a christian summer camp (Look Up Lodge) when I was a kid and we had to listen to a speaker who had written a book and handed out pamphlets about all the reasons that evolution couldn't be real. It included a section on why the dinosaurs didn't exist and one of the main anti-evolution arguments was that giraffes couldn't have existed because they have a special bone that makes them be able to bend over to drink so clearly the bone must have been materialized and not developed over time or they would have never been able to live or something. And something about stink bugs or slugs or something.
I also remember one day counting the number of windows on Noah's Ark in 'history' class based on evidence in the Bible.
Thanks Mom & Dad.
Cyno01 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:09:31 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_beetle#Evolution_of_the_defense_mechanism
IAmA_Cloud_AMA ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 15:35:57 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I assume it was an evangelical school? While each private school is different, I have found Catholic schools do a great job teaching science and the basis of evolution under the premise that God orchestrated the big bang.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:25:40 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It was not catholic. We moved a lot and went to private schools all over. They definitely vary, that's for sure.
Recondog762 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:25:01 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't even see the point. Why tell kids T Rex was a herbivore? Why is this important?
treegardner84 ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 18:41:20 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because a lot of Christians that believe this also believe that there was no death before Eve and Adam ate the fruit. If there is no death, all animals and Adam and Eve had to have a vegetarian diet.
JennyBeckman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:05:52 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What? Even if we stipulate Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden with vegetarian dinosaurs, couldn't they have just turned after the forbidden fruit was eaten? Why not just say all the fossils we've found are from the post-fruit carnivorous dinosaurs? They were hardly in the Garden long enough for anything to die and Cain and Abel were certainly killing things.
treegardner84 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:22:21 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't actually believe this myself, so I really don't know. I homeschool my son so I encounter this thinking a lot and this is the explanation I've been given by people who believe this stuff.
Joshington024 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:00:37 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That doesn't even work, because Adam and Eve were literally the last animals to be created. Dinosaurs had to eat plants, but what about lions, bears, wolves, vultures, sharks, and every other meat eater in the world? Why single the T-rex out?
treegardner84 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:06:20 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't believe any of this, but I homeschool and know people that do. This is the explanation I've been given, that all animals were vegetarian before the fall.
CaptainCipher ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:31:43 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But doesnt 'death' in that case refer to going to hell? They called that the second hell all the darn time didnt they?
treegardner84 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:37:02 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not sure what you mean by "second hell." I don't personally believe this, I just know people who do and this is the explanation I've gotten from them. They believe that when the animals and Adam and Eve were first created, there was no death on earth so all animals would have to be vegetarian.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:40:14 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not sure! It's one of those things that I believed blindly as a child.. but didn't really think about. Then I knew it was wrong because I had never seen or heard of it at any point after.
Maybe because it "proves" that humans and dinosaurs could have coexisted?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:52:26 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because everyone and everything lived in the Garden of Eden all happy like with smiles and butterflies and stuff. Animals only started killing each other afterwards. Apparently ...
luckjes112 ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 14:29:44 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
While I doubt that, it wouldn't surprise me if T-Rexes were scavengers.
Flomo420 ยท 56 points ยท Posted at 14:33:33 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Scavengers maybe, but that doesn't change the fact that their teeth aren't adapted (like at all) to chewing and eating vegetation.
lildeadlymeesh ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 14:47:53 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They probably used some bastardized explanation pointing to sauropods having pin like teeth used in stripping plants and thus T-Rex's giant non chewing teeth were clearly for stripping plants also- Or something along that line.
Either way, it's clearly ignoring the fact the teeth of many carnivorous theropods are curved backwards and even serrated.
the_ocalhoun ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 16:15:31 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For cutting through branches, yo. Do you even science?
lildeadlymeesh ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:04:29 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How could I've been SO FOOLISH?!
Musicmonk84 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:41:45 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
panda teeth: They eat bamboo.
Cyno01 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:07:56 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They were omnivores until evolutionarily very recently.
Musicmonk84 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 17:19:17 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Even so, sharp carniverous-looking teeth do not automatically connote meat eaters. more examples
Flomo420 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:35:51 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, but all of those examples (including pandas) have some form of molars to grind down plants. As far as I know, T-rex has no such molars or anything even close to resembling molars.
Musicmonk84 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:50:06 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A lack of molars does not connote carnivorous either. Notice how this shark is more interested in kelp than the meat. Sharks have no molars. Another example of "non-molared" animals eating plants would be crocodiles. Now these animals are still carniverous of course, but their teeth are not the standard by which we should judge any extinct species. At best, we can only assume that dinosaurs were carniverous.
Oh hey, look what I found! An article detailing that paleontologists now believe that most coelurosaurians like the T-Rex were "vegetarian". Interesting.
cluttered_desk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:23:25 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
First off: hypercarnivory does not mean a 100% meat based diet. Opportunistic supplementation of primarily carnivorous diet with plant material is well attested. That one shark happening to go for kelp doesn't mean it's an herbivorous species, or that its teeth are best adapted for plants.
Wikipedia on Coelurosaria:
It's a little misleading to only provide the T-Rex an example of coelurosauria. You could have picked Sinornithomimus. You could have picked Caudipteryx. You could have picked a goose. Not all coelurosaurs are like Tyrannosauridae.
http://www.pnas.org/content/108/1/232.full
Quotes from full text:
First paragraph
Second paragraph
First paragraph of discussion. (Note that troodontids are known for their small, sharp, closely spaced teeth)
http://www.pnas.org/content/108/1/232/F2.large.jpg
On the left side of the chart, note that families Compsognothidae and Tyrannosauridae have undergone no dentary tooth loss (red boxes), while the Dromaeosauridae family has undergone only caudal edentulism (yellow box, tooth loss in back of mouth).
So yes, most coelurosaurs were herbivorous; the T-rex and others with similar dentition were clearly not.
Also, did a ctrl-f for "vegetarian". Zero results in that paper. What were you quoting/reading?
Musicmonk84 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:08:25 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My apologies for quoting "vegetarian". I actually pulled that from the Gizmodo article that linked to the PNAS article. And, apparently, my quick perusal skills and blind trust of a Gizmodo article were ill-advised.
So, I was too quick to use that. Gizmodo was also off apparently (not exactly the bastion of journalism).
I agree, and I actually stated, "Now these animals are still carniverous of course,..."
So leaving the T-Rex mistake aside, the main point I want to make is this: Assuming that an extinct animal was a carnivore can only be assumed, and not known for certain. Though the author of the PNAS article does state that they believe some species, like the T-Rex, to have been undoubtedly carniverous, it is still only conjecture.
The example of the shark was to show that animals with "carniverously-shaped" teeth can eat plants, and therefore it is not hard to believe that a large T-Rex could have done the same and even survived off of the natural agriculture. It does not appear completely out of the question to conclude that the T-Rex, with its violent teeth, could have actually been herbivorous at one point, or many points, or all points in its species existence.
You sound extremely intelligent, and I am therefore highly intimidated by you. I look forward to your response and getting embarrassed.
cluttered_desk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:23:57 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm really sorry, I really didn't mean to come off like that. Looking at that post, I sound like a bit of a dick. Way too much personal language.
Let's start specifically with evidence of T-Rex carnivory. The colored lines on the chart show species for which we have Extrinsic Evidence of Diet (EED); red for carnivory, green for herbivory. Extrinsic in this case means evidence beyond the skull and dentition characteristics of the species in question. Table S1 from the study's appendix lists all the EED. T-Rex has evidence in columns 4, 6, 8, and 9. Respectively, these mean other species with T-Rex tooth marks or actual teeth embedded in their bones (4), T-Rex coprolites containing processed bone (6), something they just call "evidence of carnivory" (8), and an absence of extrinsic evidence for herbivory (9). So while they could have eaten plants, it would be an opportunistic supplement to their well-attested carnivorous diet.
In regards to the importance of teeth; the study we've been discussing actually confirms the usefulness of studying dentition in determining diet. They were testing to find a correlation between Extrinsic Evidence of Herbivory and Purportedly Herbivorous Traits (EEH and PHT, too many big words). They did this, showing first and second order correlation for 21 of the 27 PHTs they were examining. These PHTs are found on Table S7 at the very end of appendix I linked. As you can see, all but one of the traits (>10 cervical vertebrae) deal directly with teeth and the jaw. The bottom one on the column of first order correlates is what we're concerned with, though. Ziphodonty is backwards-facing, closely packed serrated teeth; classic carnivore pattern. Losing that arrangement was found to have a high correlation with herbivory, as was a general loss and flattening of teeth. So really, even though it's talking about herbivores, this study further cements dentition as a useful indicator of diet.
Musicmonk84 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:45:07 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I appreciate your apology. I was just trying to lighten the mood a bit. You don't sound like a jerk.
So it seems clear, with column 4 at the very least, that T-Rex's must have been carnivorous to some extent. Thank you for detailing the data. I've never gotten into the nuanced specifics of dinosaurs, much less dentition so this is brain expanding. I don't think I have much left to argue really.
I'm a creationist, so these facts are important for me to comprehend in light of the Genesis account. It appears that the T-Rex's dentition are best suited for eating meat, yet the bible says that death had not entered into the world until Adam and Eve's sin. So this information combined with your scientific information draws me to conclude that all animals were herbivores before the fall, then after the fall many became carnivores.
Then why did God make the T-Rex with unnecessarily carnivorous teeth? 2 possible explanations: 1. Flatter dentition is not perfectly necessary for larger animals to be herbivores. This explanation doesn't seem to fly so well. I prefer 2: God knew of the future fall of his creation and anticipated it. So that's my perspective on that.
I look forward to your response. Unless you're finished, then good day.
cluttered_desk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:54:26 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well, I disagree, but I'm not really interested in or capable of disputing your faith. I'd like to thank you for reading my replies and responding to me in good faith, Monk. Have a good one as well.
Cyno01 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:38:15 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Youre being pedantic and not adressing what /u/Flomo420 said. Its understandable how assumptions could be made, but you have to look at the mouth as a whole, sure gorillas and pandas have big scary looking canines, and could probably give you a nasty bite, but they also have grinding teeth. Tyrannosaurs dont have any sort of herbivorous adaptations to any of their teeth.
Scary teeth /~= carnivore. Lack of non-scary teeth = carnivore.
jyetie ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:14:04 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Lion
Tiger
Wolf
Proper carnivores have much sharper and longer teeth and don't have nearly as much space devoted to molars, if they have any at all.
If we want a cousin to compare pandas with, here's a polar bear skull. Polar bears are mainly carnivorous, although bears are omnivores in general. (Even pandas if they don't have another choice) You can see huge differences in their front teeth.
luckjes112 ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 14:38:08 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It just bothers me when they're portrayed as vicious killers when their body isn't very efficient. I'm no expert though.
I can excuse it in Jurassic Park, since they're not actual dinosaurs, just meant to look like them. That's my headcanon, at least.
Iwritewordsformoney ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 14:48:54 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, don't listen to Horner, he just says shit when he hasn't been in the papers enough. I don't know why you think their body isn't efficient, considering it's made to kill. Their bite pressure is ridiculous. That said, it's very likely they were opportunist, much like lions, using their size to scare off smaller predators and take their kills, but there are enough embedded rex teeth and wounds on bones that at least partially healed to prove that the T-Rex could and would hunt.
luckjes112 ยท -22 points ยท Posted at 14:51:43 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's more that they'd instantly die when they fell over and their 'hands' are next to useless. This is mostly judging by looks, but it doesn't look very stable on its feet either.
Iwritewordsformoney ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 14:55:15 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
lol wut. Dinosaurs were around for millions of years. Rex was at the end. He's literally the culmination of millions of years of evolution to arrive at the perfect predator. Do you think Geese fall over and die? He could get up. His arms were useless because he didn't need them. Jesus, lol.
purplezart ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:26:51 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This comes perilously close to teleological fallacy. Bottom line, evolution doesn't culminate.
terracedteal ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:47:37 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I love you
Iwritewordsformoney ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 15:49:33 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
lol, oh jeeze.
Minecraftiscewl ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:52:37 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not perfect, just good for the conditions. A T-Rex probably would have shit biology for today's climate, just because that's how Evolution works.
xMacBethx ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:03:24 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
https://vimeo.com/47552080
the_ocalhoun ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:16:37 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Where are all the broken-sternum T-rex skeletons to corroborate this theory?
luckjes112 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 16:17:43 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's hardly a theory, really.
Oviraptor ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:23:32 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I mean the animals ARE dinosaurs in Jurassic Park. Sure, they were modified heavily to fit the public's view of dinosaurs, i.e. bigger, less feathers, that's what Hammond wanted. They're heavily modified, they're still dinosaurs.
luckjes112 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:28:20 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That was my point, but I couldn't think of a way to put it into words! Thanks.
blaud1 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:49:36 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Saw a history channel show once talking about how the T-rex most likely would follow a herd of animals with a wounded member and wait till the animal was near death before going after. It was unlikely that they would ever run after prey nor be the nimble fighters portrayed in the Jurassic park movies.
luckjes112 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:50:29 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's terrifying.
Didn't humans do that as well? They'd follow animals until they got tired and rested?
blaud1 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:53:02 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most likely, it's smarter to use less energy tracking something down and save that energy to actually attack, then run like a madman after an animal that's probably way faster than you...
the_ocalhoun ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:17:40 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But ambush hunting or pack hunting uses less energy still.
T-rex may or may not have done those, but early humans certainly did.
luckjes112 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:55:51 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd love a horror scenario like that. Pretty much how animals see humans. This mysterious creature hunting you until you rest.
I guess there's the Slenderman, but we never really found out his motives.
theqmann ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:39:39 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Twist! Slenderman is actually a T-Rex waiting for you to get tired so he can eat you!
luckjes112 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:48:12 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Dammit! How did I not notice that!?
Toptomcat ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:27:25 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:30:25 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes because humans are built to outlast not out run.
sfsdfd ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 14:53:47 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sure - lions are scavengers, too. Being at the top of the food chain doesn't make it any easier to hunt and kill prey; it's often easier to find meat that something else has already killed.
ASplinterSaysWhat ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 16:47:32 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Years ago, one of my father's friends found out I liked dinosaurs.
He went on to explain that when dinosaurs existed, the Earth was surrounded by water. This made the atmosphere dense (or something, struggling to remember the details) and allowed for their great size. When God decided to flood the Earth he basically dropped all of the water from the sky. Noah actually brought dinosaurs onto the ark, but because they were so well adapted to the previous environment, they could not survive the post-flood environment.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:16:06 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's amazing that people make these things up and present them as facts.
Ashanmaril ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 05:15:12 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was told the exact same thing in school. The earth used to be surrounded in a big bubble of water that made the entire thing like a greenhouse, and that's how humans used to live to hundreds of years old like the Bible says.
Cyno01 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:11:43 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That part is sorta correct, the earths atmosphere in dino times had a lot higher percentage of oxygen. I dont know if it effected the size limits of vertebrates, but i know insects were able to grow larger because of that, meter long dragonflies and 3m long centipedes and such...
R-Guile ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:36:31 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've heard that one, the water-shell concept. When I was a kid my (christian) school brought in a wandering pastor who showed us diagrams of the earth surrounded by a floating shell of ice. No attempt at science whatsoever, just combinations of different myths plus a lot of unearned confidence.
turbie ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:09:16 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My husband went to a christian school. He was taught that men had 1 less rib than women because of god using it to create eve. As an adult he still believed that men were missing a rib. I had to teach him so much.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:15:07 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've heard quite a few people say that.
ShadowSlayer74 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:27:13 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I remember counting when I was a kid because I was told that in Sunday school, it was the first step in my becoming an atheist. I figured if they lied about something that easy to check what else were they hiding.
MrsMxy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:34:29 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I swear I remember reading something about T. Rex eating coconuts. He apparently used his huge teeth and jaws to crack them open. I just wish I could remember where I heard about it.
Edit: I just Googled it. I'm finding multiple articles about a creationist museum in Kentucky that has an exhibit claiming dinosaurs started out as herbivores (including T. Rex and his coconuts) and only started eating meat after Adam and Eve ate the apple.
blkbillclint ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:01:54 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What's the point in T-Rex being a vegetarian? What does that have to do with Christianity? I'm 31years old and have been a Christian my whole life. I've never been taught anything like this before. Maybe because I grew up in a Second Baptist Church. But all I can remember people in church saying about Dinosaurs, that I thought was ridiculous was a weird conspiracy theory. Something about fossils really being cow bones and that dinosaur never existed and scientists where trying to take God out of the equation of life. . But even that was just people talking, it was never taught or preached. I just don't understand why T-Rex being a vegetarian is significant to Christianity.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:39:37 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Someone else mentioned that creationists use the argument to prove that they lived peacefully in the garden of Eden before eve ate the apple.
But now I'm wondering why all the other carnivorous animals weren't said to be vegetarian? Snakes. What did they eat? Rocks? Lol.
blkbillclint ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:19:42 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lol it's ridiculous
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:15:07 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Logic and reason are not valued by creationists.
Javad0g ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:07:00 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Some of us normal parents that home school teach our children about Christ because we are allowed to. But us normal ones certainly don't teach our children that dinosaurs were vegetarians.
There can be a way to have both a love of God and Christ and a belief that we actually did evolve. Also, dinosaurs are not terrible lizards, they are more closely related to birds and were (If I am not mistaken) largely considered now warm blooded.
Our chicken and the T-Rex had much more in common than you would think.
Go Christ!
Go Home school!
Go Dinosaurs!
AthleticsSharts ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:51:20 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Why though? It's not like Christians are all vegans or something. And some of the greatest heros of the bible are hunters. It makes no sense...
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:16:32 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wish I knew. I was in kindergarten or first grade. Don't remember the argument because I didn't tune in or care about it, being that young.
lemonylol ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:53:29 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You know, I never really noticed it but I went to a publicly funded Catholic school (Toronto) and don't remember anything out of the ordinary other than obviously learning about Christianity and Spirituality.
The only teachers with a sort of "agenda" were the younger grade ones who were women over 50, but luckily I missed that boat. Like shit, I remember a couple of my teachers dismissing what a Fryer who came to talk with us every week leading up to confirmation had to say as "extreme".
DionyKH ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:44:28 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
lol. You spelled it fryer, that's great, and only further evidence they didn't try and brainwash you.
Friar.
R-Guile ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:34:22 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well, they did teach him about christianity and spirituality. That's a pretty major offense for a teacher. I can't think of many worse lessons than to tell a child than that using faith is a reliable way of examining the world.
DionyKH ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:35:59 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Learning about them and learning to use them as a way to examine the world are two different things.
You're grasping at straws to somehow be offended/find something wrong.
[deleted] ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 14:32:41 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Especially if that is the type of punctuation you were taught.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:11:45 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
English isn't my only language. Forgive me.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:06:17 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I noticed you said only and not first. Nice.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:22:00 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Good job!
FUNKYDISCO ยท 105 points ยท Posted at 14:24:36 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"why did T-Rex have sharp teeth if they were vegetarians?"
"why is the world today full of death, disease and bloodshed?"
Okay, how are those two topics related and on the same page in this "textbook"?
DrAbra ยท 70 points ยท Posted at 14:27:54 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because, if you question the lord you get fucked up.
JBHUTT09 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:42:02 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But it says fear of the lord is the beginning of wisdom. Doesn't that mean it's wise to fear the lord? And who trusts something they fear?
moonweasel ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 16:52:29 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The word "fear" in this sense means "respect", not "be scared of".
Ray57 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 01:01:26 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Makes you wonder why they don't use the word "respect" then.
soiedujour ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 06:00:45 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well he freely admits that he is "a jealous god". I still remember being scared of jealous girlfriends!
moonweasel ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:35:53 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because it's a reference to the KJV version of the Bible, which was written in the 1600s, and that's what the word means in that context. You ever hear the phrase "god-fearing" to mean 'devout', or 'earnestly religious?' Same thing.
GreenBrain ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 14:58:35 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know the actual answer unfortunately. I went to school at a private seventh day adventist school. The argument that connects these two thoughts is that Adam's sin changed the world from peaceful and loving where lions and lambs (and apparently dinosaurs) peacefully coexistence into a world of death and bloodshed. So while the t-rex was originally a vegetarian after the apple eating episode God had to give them sharp teach to eat meat or something.
Stupidest shit ever but in a textbook.
VikingPug ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:28:33 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The Jehovah's Witnesses told us something similar too.
Eiroth ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 14:45:01 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The fucking quote they chose as well:
LtCthulhu ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:22:10 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Being afraid of everything makes you
easy to controlI mean wise!"Kangar ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 14:38:08 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know the answer! It's because: Jesus.
Th35tr1k3r ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:45:38 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Half credit
wranglingmonkies ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:53:35 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
he forgot the lord Jesus.
R-Guile ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:46:01 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Always the right answer. God. Jesus. Godjesus. A squirrel? The holy spirit!
I get a sticker.
wranglingmonkies ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:53:15 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
in my opinion the actual page is worse than the "fake" page
treegardner84 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:44:25 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because they believe that when Adam and Eve ate the fruit and sinned, called The Fall, that brought death, disease, and bloodshed into the world. If death wasn't a part of the pre-Fall world, then T-Rex would have to be vegetarian.
ParadiseSold ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:05:50 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because the author believes that there was no death before the apple event. So the T. rex would have to be a vegetarian. This isn't a biology text book.
swampfish ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:11:00 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because the bible teaches that there was no death before original sin. Therefore why would god create a death machine if there was no death?
My church answered that question by saying they never existed. God created the earth with the appearance of age (think tree rings in a newly created tree). God created fossil to make earth look millions of years old on the day it was created.
It takes some mental backflips to believe!
Black_Dumbledore ยท 99 points ยท Posted at 13:41:17 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Okay, that's not quite as bad although it is still pretty bad.
Prof_Acorn ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:24:26 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't get why they felt the need to change the text. It was pretty wild to begin with. The hyperbole and satire just makes it an obvious fake.
ActualButt ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 14:32:45 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I was gonna say, the whole "to scare children" thing makes no sense.
I mean the whole thing is nonsensical, but the logic of scaring children with stories of vicious "terrible lizards" that are completely extinct and can never hurt you because they don't exist anymore is just a logical leap that even the dumbest kid wouldn't buy.
ReverendDizzle ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:29:23 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah where does the actual terror come from?
"I swear to God, William, if you don't get your sass-talking little ass in bed this minute so I can get back to using your mother as a broodmare for Jesus... I will buy up the world's reserve of amber, extract dinosaur DNA from it, recreate the T-Rex and I will let him fuck your couch inside out, you little shit!"
JBHUTT09 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:43:19 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've never met a kid whose opinion of dinosaurs didn't fall somewhere between "boring" and "holy shit that's the coolest thing ever!". Don't know who these scared kids are.
Katiroth ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:01:05 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Right here. I had nightmares about dinosaurs eating me, and for many years I was completely and utterly afraid that they would come back to life.
I was an odd kid.
(Now they're in the "holy shit that's the coolest thing ever!" category as an adult.)
rusmo ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:48:31 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Here we see an attempt to retcon dinosaurs into the mythology.
kingeryck ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:58:30 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well what is their answer? I must know!
HittingSmoke ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:51:38 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOCydGRcv1A
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:51:54 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
HittingSmoke ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:53:07 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
stop
peanutismint ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:31:55 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks. I could tell this had been photoshopped.
trypophobic ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:32:17 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But is it Berenstein or Berenstain?!
misyo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:43:17 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
While not an inflammatory, the original text is still mildly infuriating and indoctrination.
camel69 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:09:09 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's kinda even worse.
zack_the_man ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:01:02 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Even a Christian with any intelligence at all wouldn't believe this.
EngineOfDestruction ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:56:08 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
OP is full of shit
Kangar ยท 119 points ยท Posted at 12:49:04 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sadly, the book: "Dinosaurs of Eden" is all too real, however, I am pretty sure that page has been doctored. https://www.amazon.ca/Dinosaurs-Eden-Ken-Ham/dp/0890513406
Here is one of the reviews of the book.
"This book is very interesting when it comes to tell your children about God, creation and fall. The Dinosaurs just became extinct, just like many other species, but that has nothing to do with particles to people evolution. My little daughter just loved it. I hope she will become a zealous creationist. Many people think that evolutionism is perfectly compatible with Bible teachings. The fact is that there are very good theological and scientific reasons that prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that evolution never happened and the whole concept in itself is incompatible with Bible teachings on topics such as creation, fall, curse, flood, Babel, dispersion, the emergence of civilitations, the alliance with Israel, the promise of a saviour, the life, death and ressurrection of Jesus Christ, redemption and restoration."
[deleted] ยท 63 points ยท Posted at 13:29:56 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Maj0rMin0r ยท 87 points ยท Posted at 13:54:40 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In your heart
jonnyohio ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:23:07 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
your heart
FUNKYDISCO ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:21:30 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wait? So the answers were there all along? God damnit...
R-Guile ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:47:49 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know, right? I read this whole goddamn boring ass book, and the answers were inside me all along? God just wanted to bump sales of his autobiography?
WaffleFoxes ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 14:25:25 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I converted to conservative christianity when I was in high school and struggled a lot with the creation question. My pastor put it this way:
"Science studies the world through observation and experiment, and we can do neither of those things at the beginning of the world"
While I now believe creationism just isn't true, I thought it was at least reasonable that he admitted straight up that belief in creationism isn't scientific.
Bearence ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 15:34:43 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It sounds like your pastor limited the definition of science so he could discount it as a way of knowing anything about the past.
WaffleFoxes ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 15:53:09 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I do understand that science can predict the past. But if you're coming from a presupposition that things simply worked differently in the past then science is pretty much out the window.
TL;DR - I have no problem with religious people arguing that the past was different from today. Philosophically none of us have any idea if the world sprung into existence 5 minutes ago with all our fossils and memories in place. I do have a problem with those religious people then saying they have a scientific basis for that belief.
macutchi ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:47:55 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You should have a look into astronomy, it's literary all in the past, from hypernovea and super massive blackholes from nearly the beginning of all time to active ice volcanos. Really interesting stuff.
hellenicaspie ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:54:39 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But that presupposition (or any presupposition) has no basis in reality. It would just be a guess. So far, all of the evidence we've observed indicates the laws of physics, nature, etc., have always worked the same way. Ergo, based on the evidence, any other assumption would be unfounded. If we are provided with evidence to the contrary, we will adapt accordingly, but science doesn't operate with presuppositions.
kingdead42 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:51:50 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Or Last Thursday...
marginalboy ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:00:21 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Co-opting the credibility of science without all the rigor. It's infuriating.
swampfish ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:13:50 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Your pastor didn't understand science.
terracedteal ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:44:13 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My uncle from new Zealand worked as a geologist and when he moved to Canada it just blew his mind that churches in North America refuse to consider evolution. Intelligent design and evolution are by no means mutually exclusive.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:07:47 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The most famous creationist in the world, Ken Ham, is from Australia. It's not a NA specific thing.
Edit: 1 in 4 New Zealanders are self described "creationists".
http://sayit.co.nz/blog/creation-or-evolution
itsallminenow ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:05:42 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Scientific reason... mumble, mumble, incompatible... mumble.
AncientRickles ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:50:30 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You know, like when we started using insecticides to combat mosquitoes. God in his infinite wisdom decided to pity the moquites and gave the ones that survived the repeated insecticide applications insecticide resistance. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt that evolution is hokey.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:03:32 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
AncientRickles ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:34:10 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is punctuated equilibrium evolution theory in real life. Go back to Westboro with your microevoloution macroevolution crap.
Minecraftiscewl ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:34:49 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am a non-Christian who has been at an Evangelical school my entire life. I can tell you many arguments they throw out, but after hearing both sides, I honestly have to say the creationist side just falls flat. Evolution is so much more accurate on every level.
[deleted] ยท 46 points ยท Posted at 13:43:03 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's quite disturbing
jazxfire ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 13:49:19 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For me that's what made me think it was a joke
OhMy8008 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:48:10 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You should look up Jesus Camp
FUNKYDISCO ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:22:03 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Are you suggesting that I find a contact and enroll at Jesus Camp?
arrrrr_won ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 14:25:26 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Instructions unclear: stuck at Jesus Camp, becoming zealous creationist. Pls send help.
blastnabbit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:42:46 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think he's saying that you are Jesus Camp and you should look up.
LtCthulhu ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:22:48 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's a documentary on brainwashing evangelical camps.
king_england ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:25:50 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I saw that in a college film class a few years ago. I couldn't believe how twisted those people are.
Combustible_Lemon1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:20:27 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hooray! Zealotry!
chikfilella ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:18:43 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes! I had that book as a child! I do not remember that line at all. I can dig up the book and post a picture of the page if anyone's interested
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 06:17:59 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This one was pretty funny:
Macavity99 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:12:27 on May 29, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well the Flinstines was an excellent series, but so to was Gilligan's Island and the Munsters, but I think we know neither of those have ever been used to justify history, geography, or even common sense. But most of us recognized that when we were 6.
notyourvader ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:25:36 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ken Ham.. to say that guy evolved from an ape would be an insult to said ape..
nellapoo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:26:01 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They used science-y words and shit. They must be right.
Trebuh ยท 74 points ยท Posted at 13:33:21 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Book is real, that text has been altered to troll. It wouldn't even mention atheists and homosexuals, hardcore Christians want to create a bubble where children don't realise these things exist.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 14:42:24 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"And that is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Don't eat that. Seriously, trust me on this one. Over there is the tree of life. Living forever sounds awesome in the abstract, but in practice I really really don't recommend it."
"What about the one Ceratosaurus is chewing on?"
"Oh, that's the tree of ad hominem attacks. That's why I made the fruit look like a bunch of dicks."
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 16:03:32 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Thank you for admitting the trolling, shame on you for saying what you did though. That's ridiculous.
Trebuh ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:37:49 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
??? Wtf are you talking about?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:58:41 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
"Hardcore Christians want to create a bubble where children don't realize these things exist."
Did you say this? On what basis?
Trebuh ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:58:36 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
All of my childhood in a Catholic school
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:01:01 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Then you must have gone to a pretty odd school
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:30:47 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
RIGHT! Lemons were man made!
OldVMSJunkie ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 12:48:51 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sadly it wouldn't surprise me if it was real. It'd be the fundamentalist equivalent of the Saudi textbooks that called Jews apes and Christians swine (google "Saudi textbook controversy" for more... no, it was not an internet rumor).
Fundamentalists of all types love to instill their ignorance into their children from an early age.
MindControl6991 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:38:13 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Have you ever met a Christian?
evelmcneval ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:18:37 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I had this book. It is. Whenever I was little, my grandma would buy dinosaur books and redact the "non-christian" stuff out before giving it to me, akin to letter censorship from pow camps.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:21:16 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
the_ocalhoun ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:21:13 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
homosexuality =/= pedophilia
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:28:36 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
the_ocalhoun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:31:28 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thankfully, you weren't homeschooled.
smp501 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:24:32 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I went to a fundamentalist elementary school back in the 90s. This is 100% par for the course there.
edit: the original image linked above, not OP's doctored one.
SpecialEdShow ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:33:45 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Very real, I was home schooled in a fucked christian group home and the science curriculum was pure garbage. I can't remember if it was this bat-shit crazy, but basically everything was treated as hypothetical.
CreedDidNothingWrong ยท 555 points ยท Posted at 13:32:09 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't know Ken M had started writing textbooks.
Kangar ยท 78 points ยท Posted at 14:40:37 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You were close. It was Ken Ham.
notyourvader ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 21:27:41 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm starting to think those two might be the same person. Has anybody ever seen the two of them in the same room?
PhotoshopFix ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:11:19 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I thought it was Mike Hunt.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:03:18 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Rich Evans laughing/screeching
TheHeartlessCookie ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:48:45 on November 3, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Has anyone seen Mike Hunt? I can't find him anywhere!
Grammor___Natsee ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:33:25 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
WHERE'S THE RUM HAM
inconspicuous_male ยท 83 points ยท Posted at 14:03:35 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Strength + lemons doesn't even make lemonade.
arrrrr_won ยท 81 points ยท Posted at 14:26:05 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not with that attitude.
Savipalooza ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 19:57:42 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"And now for today's extra content... A fierce lemon that may attack at any moment. We must deal with it."
Macavity99 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 06:15:01 on May 29, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Send the pointy toed dinosaur to deal with it, while we stay behind these appropriately planned bushes and eat our red berries while gorillas and spider monkeys worship us.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:06:26 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
arrrrr_won ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:46:36 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Anything is possible with Jesus and dinosaurs!
tooch_my_gooch ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 14:32:53 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For the uninitiated, r/KenM
OdoyleRules26 ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 17:54:57 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
GOOD sub
Suihaki ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 19:00:31 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
We are all GOOD subs on this blessed day.
DumbNameIWillRegret ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 20:18:28 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Speak for yourself
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 20:49:45 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Alanox ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:32:37 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
unsubscribe
bman214 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:21:58 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This one is photoshopped, so it very well could be KenM
k_ironheart ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:30:13 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In other words, they ate lemons and Adam and Eve drank their urine. I think that's what they're getting at. It makes as much sense as the rest of the text, at least.
wardrich ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:04:48 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I hear some used them in lieu of whores to steal thy neighbour's lemons.
scottsmith_brownsbur ยท 152 points ยท Posted at 13:46:46 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is there any evidence in the fossil records that suggests dinosaurs DIDN'T make fresh squeezed lemonade? CHECKMATE!
grandboyman ยท 43 points ยท Posted at 17:39:17 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I know you might be joking, but there is actual evidence of dinosaurs exhibiting such behavior. Can't seem to find the documentary right now, but will post when I do.
Edit: Found it
[deleted] ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 18:01:17 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Does anyone recognize this guy?
He doesn't cite his sources in that video and I doubt if he even is a paleontologist.
R-Guile ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 19:53:35 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've been to a lecture by this man before, but as you said, he isn't a professional paleontologist. It's sort of how Bill Nye is the science guy. Even though his formal education is in engineering, which didn't require him to know much about quantum astrophysics, but I still trust him because he has a history of being right, or admitting when he's made a mistake.
Overall, I'd recommend him to others as a good science communicator, if not a working scientist.
Here are some of the slides I saved when I was able to see him in person.
pri35t ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:24:01 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ya got me
Moufino ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:14:11 on June 10, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's 2016 man... 2016...
ztc0611 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:31:12 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
OH NO MY WORLD IS CRUMBLING
Julielovespizza ยท 53 points ยท Posted at 14:41:52 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Those lemon stealing whores
chinacat1977 ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 14:56:47 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Whoreosaur.
[deleted] ยท 57 points ยท Posted at 13:22:54 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The lemonade-o-saurus. I want one.
Prof_Acorn ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 17:35:44 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Rawr
melston9380 ยท 281 points ยท Posted at 13:02:24 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not all homeschooling materials are like this, and not all homeschoolers are Young Earth Christians. Just reminding you all.
CameraMan1 ยท 160 points ยท Posted at 13:45:44 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Well, this is a doctored image (I believe this is the original image), designed to troll, so I'd argue that very few homeschooling materials are like this.
jimmythekat ยท 73 points ยท Posted at 13:53:48 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As somebody who was homeschooled, I can confirm that a large number of homeschool books are in fact much like this. Before I got my shit together, I was taught about how evolution is based on no real evidence, I was taught that carbon-14 dating was the only form of long term dating (and therefore the earth was a maximum of 30,000 years old, wtf guys...), I was taught that global warming/climate change was a farce, etc.
burrowowl ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 14:11:01 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Serious question:
It seems (and correct me if I am wrong) that YEC get particularly up in arms over evolution. They do attempt to debunk other things that show the earth as being older than 6000 (or whatever) years old, but they don't seem to display the same fervor to say plate tectonics or astronomy that they do for evolution. Biology books get the "evolution is just a theory" sticker, geology books do not.
Any idea why?
bman214 ยท 71 points ยท Posted at 14:23:06 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
because geology rocks!
[deleted] ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 16:07:16 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Gneiss.
jedimstr ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:47:59 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This... This is the correct answer.
TheHeartlessCookie ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:53:16 on November 3, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
relevant xkcd
xkcd_transcriber ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:53:22 on November 3, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Image
Mobile
Title: Geology
Title-text: That's a gneiss butte.
Comic Explanation
Stats: This comic has been referenced 108 times, representing 0.0808% of referenced xkcds.
xkcd.com | xkcdย sub | Problems/Bugs? | Statistics | Stopย Replying | Delete
morpen ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 15:16:02 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Plate tectonics is widely regarded as valid science even among YEC, but they explain things like mountain ranges and the breaking up of pangea as being caused by a catastrophic event like a global flood. Its a pretty catch all argument and theres not really much buzz about plate tectonics anyways so no one really cares. You should hear some of the great explanations ive heard for why we can see stars millions of lightyears away though.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:48:06 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
morpen ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:55:03 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've heard what /u/Volpethrope is describing but that's pretty universally panned because it means that God is showing us something that never existed, which is pretty much a lie. Probably the most bizarre explanation is that at some point there was a white hole near the earth near the beginning of time, and when earth passed through the event horizon, millions of years passed outside the wormhole while the earth effectively stood still. Even when I was a YEC I thought that theory was an incredible amount of jumping through hoops to believe that literally everything BUT the earth was billions of years old. Ive also heard that the speed of light was much faster in the past, that there is some sort of shortcut (that is never really explained, just alluded to) that light takes through space, and even that astronomers are completely wrong about our distance to the stars. Overall though Young Earth Creationists are a dying breed so dont worry too much about them. If they're anything like me they'll get to college and get slammed in the gut with reality.
Here's a page i found that actually has most of the weird and ludicrous explanations http://csharp.com/starlight.html.
HebrewHammerTN ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:10:00 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If the speed of light was much faster in the past all the stars would have blown themselves apart.
The whole E=mc2 thing throws a wrench into things when you mess with the speed of light. Increase the speed and you increase the energy.
Bugs me when creationists do this one. If you change that constant, literally everything else would have to change to compensate. Changes for which there is literally no evidence and evidence to the contrary.
I personally like principal axis rotation of asteroids in the asteroid belt. I've literally never seen an answer for that one:
https://thenaturalhistorian.com/2012/05/18/tumbling-rotating-asteroids-age-solar-system-young-earth/
Volpethrope ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:57:08 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
One of the arguments I've heard was that God created the universe as it is with light particles already in transit to earth. So the stars actually are millions of light years away based on what we can observe, but the universe isn't that old. Basically the defense is that God is deceptive. I don't know how common this reasoning actually is, though.
haragoshi ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 17:21:46 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So if God is lying about the stars, what else is he lying about?
SassanZ ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:44:20 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How is it possible to have lesson books teaching wrong stuff like that ? Does it happens often in the US ?
the_ocalhoun ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 16:22:59 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It does happen often in the US. That's because we for some reason have the idea that education should be controlled on a local -- or even individual -- level, not at a federal level.
Prometheus720 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:59:10 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because who cares where the fuck we live? That has very basic implications. At the very, very worst all that geologic evidence just makes you give up on YEC.
But evolution has greater implications. It means you aren't a soul. You are totally biological in nature. You are limited. It means you aren't the best thing around. You are a sort of accident. You were not made for any particular purpose.
Evolution is more world-shattering because it tells you more about yourself than geologic evidence.
flyawaylittlebirdie ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:22:52 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The thing is, the "science says we have no souls" thing doesn't make sense, even with evolution. Souls are supposed to be intangible, science of today wouldn't show evidence of it. Science does not disprove existence, it can only prove it.
Prometheus720 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:33:25 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It does make sense, but the way I've explained it does not. I will grant you that.
Having a competing explanation means that some people will rely on it instead of the religious one. There is no true proof that souls don't exist, but if we understand the brain then we may be attracted to that explanation (which seems sufficient for many people) rather than a supernatural one.
And while you're right that science can't disprove souls, it CAN prove that you are at least partially your brain. Even if you have a soul, your brain affects you and your decisions. And your brain evolved.
flyawaylittlebirdie ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:51:11 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think anyone argues that the brain affects you or your decisions, but to people who believe in souls, souls directly influence our "shell". No matter what science says, a soul would be the reason why the body does what it does, or something along that line. The same can be said for god and science. Science explains our universe, and god created the universe, so modern science only proves that he exists.
Prometheus720 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:06:50 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Right, so back to the original discussion. Why would evolution be a bigger deal than other things which dispute YEC?
Because it affects our ideas about our own agency.
flyawaylittlebirdie ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:26:34 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think it comes from fundamentalists who think the King James translation is 100% the word of god, not a translation of the transcribed "word of god", more than anything else. Many of the deeply religious people who research the Bible and all controversial words that I know, don't believe in creationism. Because the word Yom, which is translated to day in King James, really means a "period of time", used to refer to years, decades, hours and even minutes in other instances.
Prometheus720 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:29:21 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't know about that, although I suspect there are many examples of words like that.
That's very interesting, though. Many people seem to say that King James is the best translation, and it's pretty damn good writing but I don't have the knowledge to say anything more than that.
flyawaylittlebirdie ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:49:53 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There are many words mistranslated to suit the agenda, indeed! One example is currently translated as homosexuality, the word it really says is arsenokoites, a word assumed to be made up by Paul. It has only been translated as homosexuality for 70 years, prior to that it was translated as masturbation. The context of the word arsenokoites actually implies it's talking about male shrine prostitutes along with rapists and other sexual sins.
Hugh_Lauries_Ghost ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:25:33 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I believe that YECs are specifically interested in refuting evolution, because they believe that evolution (and abiogenesis, which is often confused as a necessary aspect of evolution) suggests that there was no special creation of man, nor was man created in god's image.
Does evolution address these specifically? No, but as an explanation different to that of god creating humans in his image, it is interpreted as a counter-argument to religious teaching.
Honestly, it's silly and many religious people accept evolution as scientific fact while simultaneously believing in a divine creator.
All that said, YECs do often refute plate tectonics and astronomy to a degree, but because they don't specifically have to do with the creation or development of the special snowflakes known as humans, they don't pay attention to them much.
The explanation I've heard given by YECs about plate tectonics is that the great flood caused a huge geological shift resulting in the different land masses and their continued movement.
As for astronomy, their counter-"argument" is that we can't be certain that the speed of light is constant, thus the starlight problem is not actually an issue.
For some fun reading, look up these and other topics on Conservapedia, where you can find delighful phrases such as "the rigid discipline of creation science", "Simplistic view of science combined with secular leftist utopianism"
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:34:21 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
IMO it all stems from the fact that YECs (and others like them) see evolution as completely opposed to the idea that God created the heavens and the earth. Evolution carries with it strong implications for someone who believes in religion, because it effectively says that "here is a way that we could have come to be without the influence of a god".
These days I think people are a lot more informed/educated/connected than say 200 years ago, so I see a lot of Creatonists use some "scientific" sounding explanation to give their views credibility, since the days of "just believe it because God said it" are over.
Now this is probably obvious, but the fact is these YECs are only tackling evolution because it's the "sexy" topic, it's the one that stirs up emotions in pretty much everyone in a debate, but plate tectonics? Probably not.
Also I have no idea how you would even argue against plate tectonics and astronomy, so if I was a YEC I'd definitely stay away from those topics.
Melcheroni ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 14:57:23 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As someone who was also home schooled, I'm calling BS. Homeschooling books are going to be whatever the Homeschooling party orders. My mom got us good books with real facts and none of this religious shit. She homeschooled us to get us out of religious schools, as plenty of people do. It bothers me to no end when people imply that all homeschooling families are crazy zealots with no real science education.
slowest_hour ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:19:02 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The problem with both you and him is that you're using your personal experience with being homeschooled to explain the experience of a majority of homeschooling.
I was homeschooled by YEC religious zealots. Their entire purpose was to get me and my siblings out of the secular schools. They met with lots of like minded families and pooled resources. From my limited point of view it seemed like everyone who homeschooled did so for these reasons.
But there isn't a centralized homeschooling group. Just small word-of-mouth groups and co-ops. Homeschoolers hear the word 'homeschool' and automatically assume that means homeschooling in the same way as them.
lostnarwhal ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 14:44:38 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I came here to pretty much say what you did. God, I remember even being such a young, zealous creationist that I called into a radio talk show when they had a couple of filthy evolutionists on, and challenged their sinful science with such questions as "why are there no fossils of missing links?" and "where is the proof of evolution?" to which they basically just laughed. In my young mind, I really got the best of those "scientists." In my adult mind, I wish I could post it to r/cringe.
slowest_hour ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:13:59 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's part of the problem. That kids like us were so indoctrinated that learned people could do nothing more than laugh at the ludicrous notions we had about science rather than explain their flaws. It takes special people to put up a good show and correct without mockery.
Bill Nye is pretty good at this when answers questions on Big Think
CameraMan1 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:01:21 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Interesting. That is sad.
I don't subscribe to any form of young earth, but my personal belief is that science and faith aren't necessarily at odds. It's a shame to see such closed-mindedness. Who am I to say God (or some higher power) does or does not exist?
Do you happen to have any of those materials still? I'd be interested in seeing them
Zexks ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:01:14 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Google Ken Ham. That should keep you busy for a long time.
slowest_hour ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:23:06 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Also Ray Comfort
BlindSpotGuy ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:27:51 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Science and religion are absolutely at odds.
Because science is about god.
incharge21 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:45:28 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That makes zero sense. They're certainly at odds in certain world views, but not others. Kinda ridiculous to make blanket statements. Be careful not to overstep the truthfulness of science. It is wrong alms of as much, if not more, than it is right. It's a search for restive truth, but it is no where close to that truth in any way. The school system has done a bad job in that sense, making science seem more important and truthful than it realistically is in a lot of cases.
BlindSpotGuy ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 12:08:27 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think it makes perfect sense.
My point was that science is the pursuit of truth and origins and how we got here. .. and how things work. And why. This is a ongoing search for "the mind of god. "
Religion is about religion. It's about dogma. It is about holding on to the tradition and writings and conclusions of groups thousands of years old trying to understand their world.
incharge21 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:25:57 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You know science originally started as the search for God's truth right. You also have a very weak understanding of religion. I understand why you would hold that opinion, but I would say that you don't really understand many peoples religions.
BlindSpotGuy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:38:52 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Certainly, science and religion were virtually inseparable for most of human history and prehistory. But that is no longer the case. Religion is mostly stagnant in its own established truths and traditions, while science continued searching. In this way, yes, science can be considered more like the search for god's truth, while religion is more about itself and its dogma.
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.
As a philosophy, of course religions holds certain relevant lessons of universal truths of the human condition, but science more closely resembles the age-old active search for truth, while religion mostly found its truth, and protects that truth. It sees the world through the lenses of its teachings. So it is written, so it shall be, religion accepts its truth as infallible and irrefutable. Science loves being wrong. And it continues to evolve as more truth is revealed.
YaboiTJ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:36:14 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can confirm as well.
incharge21 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:40:03 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've seen the same ones since I was homeschooled, but they aren't at all like that picture. It's also important to note that I've seen dumb shot in non-Christian homeschool material as well, over exaggerating certain claims as fact etc...
lynn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:04:12 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most aren't that bad, I don't think, but it can be surprisingly and frustratingly difficult to find secular curricula.
I would love to go to a homeschooling conference but I'm scared to. The crazy is strong enough on the Facebook homeschooling groups I'm in, or the ones I was in before I found the secular group I'm in now.
manaworkin ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:35:33 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How is that image better?
CameraMan1 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:43:15 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well for starters this one isn't encouraging homophobia
newsjunkee ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 14:57:57 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Upvote for you. We homeschooled our daughter. We weren't Christian based at all. We did it because the schools suck
melston9380 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:53:50 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yup. Homeschooled because the local government schools sucked. Same here.
Caitir ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:15:14 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Currently homeschooling my son because we have some of the worst schools in the nation here. Completely secular curriculum. We've actually just finished a unit on Darwin and Evolution- in the first grade.
Steg-a-saur_stomp ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 14:05:47 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I actually have a friend with a masters in education who has homeschooled all three of his kids because he lived in the Bible belt and wanted them to get a real education that included things like evolution.
rex_dart_eskimo_spy ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 14:24:18 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My parents homeschooled me because Memphis City Schools were a joke, and dangerous. Nothing biblical for me!
Dustin- ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:29:07 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was also homeschooled because the schools in my town are awful. However we learned all about how humans were able to spread through the whole earth in 6000 years (including a land bridge to Australia that was destroyed in the biblical flood).
So while they had good intentions, my parents are still crazy. And even crazier are the textbook companies that make these ridiculous claims in their books. Lookin' at you Abeka, Saxon, and Apologia.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:15:14 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Dustin- ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:54:18 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Exploring Creation with Chemistry, right? That's the book I used for chemistry in highschool. I still have it laying around somewhere. Can't remember any fun excerpts from it, though.
And if I remember right, the author of that book (or the one I used anyway) was the wife of the guy who wrote a bunch of other Apologia textbooks. Dr. Wile, right?
Edit: Found the textbook! Turns out this one was written by Dr. Wile, and maybe another textbook I had was written by his wife. Anywho, I checked to see what it had to say about evolution. And found this little tidbit (link 1, link 2). I think it's funny that it's technically correct but they imply the wrong conclusion that evolution is false because species can't change to a different species. Even in highschool I knew that this stuff was 100% BS, so I took pretty much everything I learned then with a grain of salt.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:01:55 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh gosh, I used apologia and abeka as well, apologia for physics, general science, and marine biology and abeka for biology. The abeka biology book should have basically been called "Refuting a evolution" because that's how much anti-evolution content was in it. Thankfully by the time I got to chemistry my mom let me take it as a dual-enrollment at a local community college, and it was a real shocker to actually learn science.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:36:02 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Dude.... I hated Saxon math.
danjr321 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:06:41 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
With the state of public education in some areas I would almost rather educate my future children utilizing the internet. That is unless we can elect officials who actually care about educating the youth.
miby ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 14:49:46 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you!!! Homeschooled under a Christian household here! Nothing like this! NOTHING!
turdBouillon ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:32:56 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
WHAT IS THIS. BONNIE CAME OVER LAST WEEK BUT SHES WITH THR LORD NOW? LOL -Gramgram
BlindSpotGuy ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:29:28 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
FRANKY DIED
turdBouillon ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:54:10 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Take me OFF YOure Internets!
Cyno01 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:13:34 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not all, but a large enough percentage to be worrying.
flaviuscrispus ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:22:14 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've been wrong my entire life
crambly ยท -17 points ยท Posted at 13:24:18 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I am choosing a book for reading
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 17:01:58 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Only a vast, vast majority.
DoctorWaluigiTime ยท 45 points ยท Posted at 13:29:10 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Flintstones, meet the Flintstones.
SithLard ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 14:37:32 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
(sigh)... They're the modern stone-age fam-i-ly!!!
the_ocalhoun ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 16:24:17 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Only now do I realize that show was a creationist documentary.
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:57:07 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
GRAND DAD
FLEENTSTONES
XDStamos ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:48:06 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
HIGH QUALITY RIPS
Farren246 ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 13:59:55 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
TIL if you squeeze fresh lemons hard enough, they turn into lemonade.
the_ocalhoun ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 16:25:33 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You forgot to add the dinosaur saliva.
Userfr1endly ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:51:57 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That sweet, sweet saliva_
peanutismint ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:33:55 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Da Limon fruit ees very dangaroose and eet may atak at anny time.
Vee most deal vit it.
rajeevist ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 15:26:50 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Why is this fake post still up?
aDAMNPATRIOT ยท 33 points ยท Posted at 16:45:28 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because anything that makes Christianity or homeschooling look bad is a+ reddit content
[deleted] ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 17:04:01 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You're so oppressed :(
NinjaLanternShark ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 21:47:44 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So it's only wrong to lie and troll about people who are oppressed?
aDAMNPATRIOT ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 17:07:49 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
True true
JacksUnkemptColon ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:37:30 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because it's making you mildly infuriated?
rajeevist ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:07:51 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's fake, so it kinda doesn't.
ThisIsMyUserdean ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:33:55 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fonts don't match at all, though it is weird that humans and dinosaurs would be in the same picture together. Can't believe someone would take the time to draw them in just for the heck of it.
dackkorto1 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:10:52 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Never got why home schooling and christianity go hand in hand all the time. I was home schooled and never once learned anything about the bible or any of that stuff.
459pm ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:02:15 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This isn't exactly Christianity.
R-Guile ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:58:09 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I had a number of homeschooled friends whose parents were entirely unqualified to teach them, but who did it in order to preserve their innocence and to not let them be tainted by "the world." They wanted their kids to be well and truly brainwashed by their insensible bullshit before allowing them to interact freely with other humans.
pcweber111 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:54:05 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because it's usually the fundamentalists that want to keep their children pure of heart and untainted by the evils of the public. That way they can indoctrinate them early and ensure their own personal biases remain.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:33:17 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd love to make lemonade but I only have the strength of one adult male :(
TaliTek ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 16:10:55 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm Christian and this pisses me off so much. What a load of crap.
wyatt1209 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 19:50:19 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's fake
R-Guile ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:55:36 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's an edited version of a creationist textbook. The actual one is more than mildly infuriating.
[deleted] ยท 34 points ยท Posted at 12:53:33 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
/r/thathappened
HighProductivity ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 13:47:03 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Literally editing the picture, adding shit like lemonade dinosaur and people are still going to believe this is real.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:27:10 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
From the flair, looks like I've been vindicated.
HighProductivity ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 15:34:39 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Should be straight up removed, not just flaired. If we can add fake rage to the sub, then it will just be trolls trolling trolls for content. Oh well.
mr_somebody ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:38:20 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The picture is still real and was in a book. So it's just a tiny bit less ignorant.
wicked-dog ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:19:28 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lemons did not exist when Dinosaurs were alive.
Cyno01 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:15:26 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Duh, any one whos seen Red Dwarf X knows that.
R2J1 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:25:07 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How does that old saying go...
When Life gives you lemons, give them to your pet dinosaur, and have it make lemonade.
ShadowSlayer74 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:41:34 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I really like the version my wife came up with after finding out lemons are a man made hybrid fruit, humans gave life lemons so what does that say about your problems.
MZago1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:08:35 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When life gives you lemons, have a lemon party.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:33:47 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Funny but fake af.
Bfranx ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:54:36 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a Christian, this kind of stuff is very annoying. Not only is it deliberate misinformation, but it makes the religion look bad.
ReginaForbes ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:28:16 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
/r/quityourbullshit
Atheist_Simon_Haddad ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:15:17 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[Real illustration - fake text]
Now that's mildly infuriating.
IAmKennyKawaguchi ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 13:47:31 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As someone who is religious... what the heck?
cabbygator ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 16:35:36 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's cause the photo is shopped. And yeah, I agree, what thhe heck (I'm religious as well)
PiranhaJAC ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:37:03 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The real page isn't much better.
miby ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 14:52:41 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Agreed! Not all religious people are anti-everything else!!
the_ocalhoun ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 16:25:10 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is where 'faith' (ie, believing without evidence, or in spite of evidence) inevitably leads.
blondeamy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:02:27 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Believing in both creation and evolution is possible. They aren't mutually exclusive.
the_ocalhoun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:14:55 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know. Believing in anything is possible, with enough faith.
That's the problem. With faith, you no longer need any connection between your beliefs and reality.
WrestlesAtWork ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:40:44 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lemon-stealing Dino-whores!
chinwag ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:35:49 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lions are cuddly and playful, just like your typical housecat. The bible tells stories of lions being mean because it wants to scare girls and boys. The bible hates children.
scandalousmambo ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:05:15 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh bullshit. If you're going to post fake crap at least try to make it look legit.
AllDesperadoStation ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:51:03 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Poor spider monkey
Airship_Captain ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:28:00 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What the shit?? I was home schooled and none of our curriculum looked like this
miby ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:53:59 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Me too! Nothing like this! Even the creation based stuff was nothing like this!
Airship_Captain ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:15:03 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm christian so obviously creation was taught but it was a really small part, I was way more interested in volcanoes and space and stuff like that. My mom really made an effort to focus on the things I (and my siblings) liked because she thought that public schools kill excitement for learning and didn't want to see that happen to us
miby ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:26:51 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My parents allowed us to take on any kind of extra subjects in addition.
so I took about 200 art classes in my high school years! :)
Now a wedding photographer!
BlindSpotGuy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:32:09 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Would you photog a gay wedding?
miby ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:40:06 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Absolutely!! :)
Airship_Captain ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:51:44 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's awesome!
the_ocalhoun ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:27:44 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's almost as if homeschooling curricula are not standardized and could include anything...
wyatt1209 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:50:50 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's almost as if the text has been altered.
the_ocalhoun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:10:55 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because the original was so much better...
wyatt1209 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:32:37 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Except it is... still not accurate, but also not hate speech
Prometheus720 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:54:54 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, what's actually mildly infuriating is how people continuously associate homeschooling with religious radicalism.
I know multiple homeschooling families and none of them were more than your garden-variety Christian. All the kids were very smart. I went to college with two of them and they did very well socially.
BelongingsintheYard ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:29:26 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Unfortunately most are religious radicals. I sent this picture to my girlfriend and she said. "Yep. That's pretty much what we learned."
Prometheus720 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:58:53 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Your girlfriend is not necessarily most. That's an anecdote, not evidence.
Like I said, I know three entire families just from personal life and I'm an anarchist who hangs out with a lot of unschooling and homeschooling crowds who have political or educational reasons to homeschool.
That's not most either, but I'd say it's a larger representation.
BelongingsintheYard ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:03:45 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Every homeschool kid I've ever known has been in for religious reasons. The homeschool culture in general is weird.
Prometheus720 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:31:47 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Of course they're weird to you. Everyone else you've ever met has had a relatively standardized childhood/childhood education which you share with them.
Homeschoolers don't. They may as well be foreigners to you.
I don't know how many you've known but I think I've known more. That's sort of what I was getting at with my last comment.
BelongingsintheYard ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:14:45 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Twentyish is a pretty solid number. Idaho has tons of Mormons and full quiver folks.
Prometheus720 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:31:31 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Southern Missouri is also very religious. We also have tons of Mormons and backwoods people.
SnoweyMist ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:57:08 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I just have to say that I was homeschooled and in one of my brothers classes at a friend's house they tried to teach something similar and we both broke down laughing at how stupid it was. Not all homeshcoolers are such bigots but a lot are.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:52:00 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is from the book "Dinosaurs of Eden" by creationist Ken Ham.
Here is a sample of the book: http://nwcreation.net/sample_content/dinosofeden.pdf
ReginaForbes ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:00:20 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd be pissed off too if errybody tryna eat my damn garden.
mmosarecool ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:46:54 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've been raised in a church my entire life and find this absurd.
reptiliandude ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:53:49 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Earth: The pale blue short bus of the galactic community.
nerfherder_ ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:20:34 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can almost hear the tone of their voice saying "scientists" , and using air quotes while rolling their eyes.
Cyno01 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:15:05 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just ask this scientician!
http://i.imgur.com/nlZq9rc.jpg
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:58:03 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
BlindSpotGuy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:30:39 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
*their
Ansakicus ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:16:35 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Or even homosexuals" is my favorite
DurasVircondelet ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:54:13 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I had no idea homosexuals were responsible for all of science. Good on em.
fearthelettuce ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:59:17 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Actual serious question, please hear me out before reacting. I was raised Catholic and still go to church with family from time to time. I also firmly believe in evolution bases on scientific evidence.
I've never understood why creationism is so at odds with evolution. It doesn't seem like anyone in the Church has ever discussed a way to reconcile these two theories. I know the Bible says God created the earth in seven days but I've always believed that the Bible is about communicating the message, rather than taking it literally. Can't evolution happen because that's the way God created the universe, to guide itself through evolution rather than Him intervening in every miniscule change.?
Could those seven days, in God's frame of reference, have between millions of years in our frame of reference? Couldn't Adam and Eve, while not literally being created from the dust on the ground, represent the very first beings that reached the point in their evolution where they could be classified as 'intelligent life' and the Garden of Eden was the area/environment that allowed this to happen?
Astartes_of_Derp ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:55:49 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In my opinion/experience, the people that try to pit both ideas against each other are either bible literalists or the sort of atheist that you dont feel like talking to anyway. You actually bring up a great point!
june606 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:33:02 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Adam and Eve shouldn't be so reassured in their righteous roles. Let's face it - they are in close proximity to dangerous dinosaurs and not far from other mutant beings.
This is the perfect intro to a horror film where an unexpected and horrifying event must precede the titles.
dylan_bigdaddy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:17:45 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Scientist
lilsparky1320 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:13:41 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For fucks sake...
wirecats ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:15:51 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And this author has an intense hatred of basic factual information
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:20:48 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Take that science!
f0rmality ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:45:32 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone knows that homosexuals tried to disprove the vegetarian dinosaur theory because dinosaurs believed in good Christian ideals and wouldn't let them marry.
jeez
Jhrek ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:46:24 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
but why we still got monkeys?
abovebeyondlove ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:47:43 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a Christian, this greatly disturbs me.
Jakubbucko ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:54:11 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is very infuriating. But to be fair, I do hate children.
Hades1029 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:13:07 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am not even mad, I find this amusingly funny...
prkrrlz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:39:53 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's pretty funny.
itshayjay ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:48:32 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
'Atheists or even homosexuals!' Scandal!!
exxocet ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:55:11 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
UGh! More UNFEATHERED dromaeosaurs. What kind of lies are these guys trying to perpetuate! I can see why you are angry. God gave them feathers.
HppySqrrl-67 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:27:57 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I want me some of that delicious Dinosaur lemonade!
reddditaccount2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:32:37 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Unbelievable, a dinosaur eating multiple lemons, whole, all at once?? My face goes all puss when i think of even just a single warhead. Either than dinosaur has no taste buds, or is in for quite a surprise.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:33:59 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Now I know why I don't want kids, the bisexual demons command that I would hate at least 50% of them XD
Mentioned_Videos ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:55:09 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
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ParadiseSold ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:04:09 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm laughing so hard. I love the concept of dinosaur lemonade.
Goodandgrounded ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:27:19 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Should be on r/wtf
mexicanmike1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:32:30 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I always suspected the homosexuals of demonizing dinosaurs.
camdoodlebop ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:19:48 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wonder how Eve managed to shave her legs
Angelsomething ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:25:34 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well now I know what's like to troll parents. Wow. Scary bit is that some parents will see this as the "right thing"
ashleyschmashly ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:55:31 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I grew up in a Southern Baptist home and my parents taught us that Satan placed dinosaur bones in the ground to fool humans and get them to stray to God. They also told us that we needed to memorize the answer the school taught us so we could pass the test but that the real truth of dinosaurs is because of Satan.
Partyfavors680 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:02:32 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ok whoever is getting pissed at this is ridiculous. It's just a photo on the internet, downvote it and get on with your lives.
PieFlava ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:03:47 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a Christian who used to be homeschooled... tf is this garbage??
sheaness ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:12:14 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I thought this was /r/wtf
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:15:41 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
um WHAT???
KikiLynn42 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:52:24 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm so glad I wasn't home-schooled. This likely would have been my textbook.
CougarBen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:59:43 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Actual" homeschool textbook page...by Ken M.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:16:06 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You couldn't make this shit up....wait
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:16:24 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah right... Adam and Eve would have been "clever girl'd" instantly
ImperialDoor ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:00:06 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How do we know this isn't from church school or something?
Gequinn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:05:52 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The actual infuriating thing about this post is the shitty image quality.
mrkl3en ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:34:02 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
more like /r/rage
wardrich ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:02:56 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Swiss Family Flintstone
belushi99 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:24:20 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There was a teacher back in the 70's that taught my uncle, he got in shit for teaching kids the Holocaust was a lie.
wearwolfnotswearwolf ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:32:28 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't want your damn lemons, what the hell am I supposed to do with these?
Cave, it's fine. Let the dino deal with it.
Killmoeweee ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:46:30 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"scientists"
DexterVane ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:27:25 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No hold up I can take idiots believing people living alongside Dinosaurs. As stupid as those idiots are. But look at how FUCKING SMALL A DEINONYCHUS WAS
TimidTortoise88 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:12:55 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was sent to a ranch outside of Escalante, Utah (turn-a-bout) and some of the staff there were very religious. One of the staff members was this older cowboy who was convinced that the government planted dinosaur bones to discredit religion. Whether or not the text is real, people still believe some crazy stuff. On another note, while I was there I was asked if I was molested as a kid because I said that "Spongebob doesn't promote homosexuality." That was quite the experience.
TheAdmiralCrunch ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:50:11 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's mildly infuriating that you think this is real
TheHeartlessCookie ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:41:18 on November 3, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a Christian and this made me cringe not only due to how hateful it is to others who don't happen to be Christian, but due to how stupid it is. (note: I belive in evolution)
Evolved_Velociraptor ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 13:40:29 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can we please not turn this into an r/atheism circlejerk?
returningvideotapess ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 13:47:29 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No one is
Evolved_Velociraptor ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 13:48:41 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The post is only an hour old, I'm asking if we can avoid it all together because it's going to happen.
turdBouillon ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:34:24 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Your god is a lie.
Evolved_Velociraptor ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 16:15:15 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't personally believe in a god, but that doesn't change the fact that r/atheism is a special kind of cancer.
mr_somebody ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:39:18 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No it's not. It's just "cool" to talk bad about it.
Evolved_Velociraptor ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:15:12 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Here, I replied this to someone else, but you can read it too, I'll even add a bit.
It's pretty "cool" on r/Atheism to shit talk everyone with differing opinions. But think what you want.
Lemme start by saying that obviously this doesn't apply to all people that go on that sub, and this is really just a broad opinion on r/Atheism as a whole. And I'm hoping that this is gonna be an actual conversation.
I used to be subbed to r/atheism on my other account. I eventually realized that a good 70-80% of the content there is just bashing religion and anybody that does believe in it. It's full of "intellectuals" who think that because they don't believe in a god they're automatically better than others that do. I have no issue with Atheism, or any religion, I have an issue when it becomes the thing that defines people.
I'm sure that r/atheism probably does some good stuff, but the majority of stuff I see everytime I look on that subreddit is stuff like "Argued with this idiot about religion today" or "Come protest to remove under God from the bills" or just circlejerk comments that just bash religion and how stupid people are.
I've seen some incredible things there too though, I remember once someone from some Middle Eastern country posted and asked for help escaping the country due to its persecution of atheists, and the subreddit helped him get to Sweden I believe. That's good, that's a good thing.
To be completely honest, ALL of Reddit is a pretty big circlejerk. And I suppose"cancer" could be construed as an exaggeration, and it is. The real issue I have with that subreddit is how shitty it treats people with different thoughts, ESPECIALLY those who believe in their own gods, atheism is all about being open minded, but I don't really see atheists backing down from arguments and being the bigger person, always wanting the last word. And of course it's not all atheists, probably not even the majority, but they're the ones people see and hear. The toxic part of that community is who people think of when you say "atheist".
As a final, pretty drastic example I'll reference 4chan. Look at R9k or B or Pol. The boards aren't inherently toxic, but the way they think, the way they perceive everything and everyone around them is what makes them toxic to most people. It's the same thing with Atheism. The idea is fine, great even. Believe or don't believe what you want, but as soon as you start condemning others for their beliefs you get a problem. As soon as people accept it as fine to do that, it only gets worse.
I used to define myself as atheist, always trying to trump those dumb Christians, thinking I was better than them. That I was smarter. That attitude is toxic. And unfortunately many atheists have that attitude. Those are my real issues with that subreddit, but it's not only that subreddit. I feel the same way about Redpill, and foreveralone, and a bunch of other subreddits.
Sorry if this is kind of poorly written, I'm at school so I wrote this off and on.
mr_somebody ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:36:33 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know what you're talking about; there was a short time where I thought I had become become better than others because of losing my beliefs. I too had to quit that, and unsubbed too, but it was mostly because I feel I had got my fill.
I looked there again and I don't think I see what you do . Maybe years ago when it was a default sub.... maybe.
A third of posts are "coming out"/family issues, a third are pro-science/pro-atheism news articles, and a third are maybe satirical pictures making fun of some ridiculous religious beliefs.
But it's atheism. You go there to talk about atheism, and often consequently, anti religion . If you go there to tell people they're wrong with some low effort anti-atheism post, yeah you're gonna get flamed (as you would if you went to /r/Overwatch and submitted a post on how it's never gonna be as good as Halo,for some reason).
Most the people there ARE knowledgeable on the subject. Some might come across as snarky, (like Reddit in general, as you said) but there's plenty of opportunity for legitimate conversation.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:06:51 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Every time I see people saying things like this, I ask them to explain what is there on the front page right now that they find so abhorrent. Yes, this particular image in the OP is over there, too, but that just shows that things like this are not confined to /r/atheism. What is over there now that you find to be "a special kind of cancer"?
Nobody ever answers this. They just answer in vagueries like "Um well they are all just neckbeards angry at their parents," etc., without linking to anything specific that is supposedly so horrible.
Evolved_Velociraptor ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:13:17 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Lemme start by saying that obviously this doesn't apply to all people that go on that sub, and this is really just a broad opinion on r/Atheism as a whole. And I'm hoping that this is gonna be an actual conversation.
I used to be subbed to r/atheism on my other account. I eventually realized that a good 70-80% of the content there is just bashing religion and anybody that does believe in it. It's full of "intellectuals" who think that because they don't believe in a god they're automatically better than others that do. I have no issue with Atheism, or any religion, I have an issue when it becomes the thing that defines people.
I'm sure that r/atheism probably does some good stuff, but the majority of stuff I see everytime I look on that subreddit is stuff like "Argued with this idiot about religion today" or "Come protest to remove under God from the bills" or just circlejerk comments that just bash religion and how stupid people are.
I've seen some incredible things there too though, I remember once someone from some Middle Eastern country posted and asked for help escaping the country due to its persecution of atheists, and the subreddit helped him get to Sweden I believe. That's good, that's a good thing.
To be completely honest, ALL of Reddit is a pretty big circlejerk. And I suppose"cancer" could be construed as an exaggeration, and it is. The real issue I have with that subreddit is how shitty it treats people with different thoughts, ESPECIALLY those who believe in their own gods, atheism is all about being open minded, but I don't really see atheists backing down from arguments and being the bigger person, always wanting the last word. And of course it's not all atheists, probably not even the majority, but they're the ones people see and hear. The toxic part of that community is who people think of when you say "atheist".
As a final, pretty drastic example I'll reference 4chan. Look at R9k or B or Pol. The boards aren't inherently toxic, but the way they think, the way they perceive everything and everyone around them is what makes them toxic to most people. It's the same thing with Atheism. The idea is fine, great even. Believe or don't believe what you want, but as soon as you start condemning others for their beliefs you get a problem. As soon as people accept it as fine to do that, it only gets worse.
I used to define myself as atheist, always trying to trump those dumb Christians, thinking I was better than them. That I was smarter. That attitude is toxic. And unfortunately many atheists have that attitude. Those are my real issues with that subreddit, but it's not only that subreddit. I feel the same way about Redpill, and foreveralone, and a bunch of other subreddits.
Sorry if this is kind of poorly written, I'm at school so I wrote this off and on. And like I said, maybe Atheism changed since last time I was there more than 6 minutes, it was a few years ago.
FreakNoMoSo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:30:39 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Explain.
the_ocalhoun ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:26:41 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes. Instead, we should appreciate the validity of the concerns expressed in this book and teach the controversy.
Evolved_Velociraptor ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:32:37 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The fake book?
the_ocalhoun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:09:14 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is the book fake or not?
Teach the controversy!
scandalousmambo ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 15:06:10 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This whole fucking site is an r/atheism circlejerk. Give it up.
Evolved_Velociraptor ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:22:07 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, but if you aren't content with the state of something you should try to change it. 999 times of 1000 that comment will be ignored but fuck, I'm at school already not doing work, so I might as well spend my time commenting on Reddit.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:08:39 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Isn't that the truth.
FreakNoMoSo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:30:00 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Will you be ok?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:51:18 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Why?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:26:10 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
the_ocalhoun ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:29:45 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes.
BlindSpotGuy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:32:56 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
sadly, yes
celticguy08 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:54:48 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What infuriates me about this is without scientists who cared about observations and measurements, the illustrator wouldn't even know what a T-Rex looks like. It's like they stole science and bastardized it to their whim. Disgusting.
chinacat1977 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:58:58 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Looks like Adam and his gorilla pal are about to jam on some flutes.
skullshark54 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:15:54 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
At least they are now acknowledging the actual existence of dinosaurs. It's a step up from "the devil put them there" or "they are actually dragons"
the_ocalhoun ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:28:46 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hard to keep up the 'dinosaurs didn't actually exist' line when your 6-year-old kid is obsessed with them.
skullshark54 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:03:49 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am laughing my ass off imagining some woman trying to explain to little Timmy how a velociraptor would use his claws to peel lemons or some shit. And then the T-Rex stomps them into lemonade for god's servants. And little timmy is just like "yo full of shit"
bishifterr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:54:47 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lemons are made by humans through selective breeding of oranges.
the_ocalhoun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:29:18 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Good thing those dinosaurs had Adam and Eve, or there would be no one around to turn their oranges into lemons.
Cyno01 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:20:35 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think you have that backwards, not that lemons dont have their uses, but why would anyone breed a sweet hand fruit into something inedible?
marcuspavlos ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:12:25 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I remember reading this book growing up (for fun, mostly just liked the pictures). I wouldn't go as far to call it a "textbook." Maybe a centimeter in thickness.
ken___kaniff ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:15:01 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Awesome and very accurate!
Baygo22 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:39:59 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Obvious fake.
OP doesn't care, still got 1500 upvotes from gullible idiots.
Trainkid9 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:10:21 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is this the norm for home school teaching?
FilmsByDan ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:42:54 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:23:02 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Definitely not.
FreakNoMoSo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:35:52 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes.
EithneMeabh ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:41:06 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not in my homeschool!
Ekrank ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:52:36 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Scientists"
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:56:37 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I actually remember reading this when I was younger. It's not a textbook, just some generic pro-christian kid's book. I'll try to find it, but I doubt I'll be able to.
DeweyDesuSystem ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:05:46 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd dispute this but I'm homosexual science nerd with a distaste for young children. What the hell do I know? ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
Teoes ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 12:33:35 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think this is my new favourite thing! Thanks for sharing.
dazedwit ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 13:45:12 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Bob Jones U for home skooled 4th graders
MisterFrogJudgesYou ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:17:11 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Secular homeschooler here. I know people who would buy this. They make me insane.
Penultimatemoment ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:19:31 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Downvoted for being fake as shit.
CuriousMoose24 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:36:22 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's not though
stachldrat ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:01:36 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Shit like this is what makes me think America deserves Trump.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 13:25:24 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
BlindSpotGuy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:33:40 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because they didn't get on the ark. Duh. That's why they are extinct.
luckjes112 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:29:11 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Dewott!?
That's hilarious if it wasn't taught as fact.
I also love how God loves every creature equally, but every creature was made to serve the creature that resembled what God himself looked like.
matticusbradicus ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 02:20:30 on May 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Was homeschooled.
Can confirm this kind of shit is pretty common.
PooleParty247 ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 14:07:41 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Now I know! And knowing is half the battle! The other half is gutting an enemy solider while crawling threw miles of landmines.
[deleted] ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 13:49:24 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
BelongingsintheYard ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:17:33 on May 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drunk commenting?