My water company bills you for the service of billing you.
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 7247 points ยท Posted at 15:10:29 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 7247 points ยท Posted at 15:10:29 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Saved comment
strikt9 ยท 1387 points ยท Posted at 16:10:43 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Introduce them to your newly developed Payment Fee
meowzers814 ยท 481 points ยท Posted at 19:41:30 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I have a friend that used to work for a real estate investment company that owned and managed higher end apartment buildings, mostly in suburban white-collar neighborhoods. Anyway, because water metering can be different in each property, they hired an outside company to manage their utility billing for them. So the 3rd party would receive the bills from the utility company, create their own invoice depending on the billing methodology for that property, and inform the real estate company who would itemize this on the tenants' monthly rental statements. The real estate company charged tenants a $3 a month utility billing fee to cover the costs of them having to pay the 3rd party company. This ended up being more revenue generated than the cost of paying the 3rd party, so it became a money maker for the real estate company. To summarize, the real estate company made money by charging tenants to pay their own utilities.
automatic_shark ยท 252 points ยท Posted at 20:47:09 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Astounding.
meowzers814 ยท 84 points ยท Posted at 21:53:11 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
What's REALLY astounding is that tenants might actually be paying for their neighbors' water or even irrigation. Oftentimes, apartment buildings aren't metered by the individual unit. There might be one meter per building and the property would have multiple buildings. When this is the case, depending on local laws and regulations, the water usage is then divided between the units attached to that meter. Sometimes this is based on number of occupants according to the lease or the number of bedrooms in that particular unit.
When irrigation and "common areas" (pool, clubhouse, office, etc.) are metered separately, those must be paid directly by the owner of the property. But if they're not metered separately, then that usage is also allocated to the tenants. All within the boundaries of the local laws and regulations, of course.
lachryma ยท 59 points ยท Posted at 22:09:04 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
This practice is disclosed when you sign a lease, so you are aware of it and it's not a surprise. If anyone doubts me I can dig up my lease, which contains two pages solely on utilities. You read the entire lease before signing it, right?
In addition, I don't know if it's "astounding," since every property at which I've lived that does ratio billing has ended up cheaper than if I paid the bills separately. Without exception.
Edit: Yeah, checked myself: last place I lived at was separate billing and I paid $45.90 for water the last month I lived there. My water bill last month out of nearly one hundred units at my current residence was $9.12. Nothing changed in my water usage, and I didn't change cities/rates/etc. People don't realize that vacant units and people who are out of town help you when you're on ratio billing, plus bulk rates from the companies.
Not as astounding when you think about it, I think. Just my personal opinion, though.
LavernicaDeLuca ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 22:44:53 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It is disclosed but they aren't really honest about how much your bills will be. The typical salesperson technique comes into play and they give you the lowest estimate possible. The leasing agent at our last apartment said our bills would be $20-30. They were never under $30 and were usually $35-40, with high months in the winter at $50. Not a huge difference but annoying, especially when you know you aren't using as much as others (no kids, didn't have a washing machine for half the time we lived there, used low flow showerheads, etc).
I used to pay my mom's water bill and I know she rarely paid more than $40 for water/sewer/trash. She was shocked when I told her how much our bills were at the apartment.
It definitely varies by where you live.
WanderingKing ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 01:01:06 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I always find it best to contact utility companies directly about this. Normally you can say "I'm moving to X address, can you give me an average bill reading there?"
Mind you it varies by company and rules (possibly regulations), but Duke Energy flat out told me what the average bill for the unit I was moving to was because they wanted me to sign up for that "consistent billing" thing where they charge you flat rate for 12 months, then either credit you back or charge you more depending on if you were over or under it over the 12 months total.
LavernicaDeLuca ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:21:30 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think the water utility would even know in the case of the apartment that I lived in. I don't think the water was metered by apartment, it was all billed to the apartment complex and then separated based on your apartment size and number of occupants.
That works great for electricity though. All I have to do is check the budget billing amount (same as your "consistent billing"). :)
WanderingKing ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:25:15 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Oh yea it's totally case by case. Non-Submetered billing can be a blessing and a curse.
One thing everyone might want to look into are your local utility commission laws. I work in the Apartment Industry and have worked a lot with them on re-billing issues. We don't have an common area water bills that get split, but I know in North Carolina that if you are submetered and rebilled (in our case it is electricity but I verified it is supposed to be with water too), the company (either management for 3rd party) has to provide you with a bill upon request, and sometimes must send a bill copy with the statement.
Same goes with Real Estate commission on the topic of commissions and laws and shit.
e42343 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:21:12 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well no shit sherlock.
thebornotaku ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:25:06 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah man I pay like six bucks a month for water. It kicks ass.
Lettherebesammich ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:33:52 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Jesus how?! Where i live water bill can easily run around $80-$120
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:01:54 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
On this plan, know that when you go out of town, you're still paying for your neighbors showers. As a property owner, there is no way I'm paying the water bill on a vacant unit... it's vacant. A vacant unit uses zero water, and my billing company is aware if that. So in my theoretical 10 unit complex with 2 vacant units, the full amount of the water bill gets split 8 ways and gets mailed to the occupied 8 units.
another way to look at ratio billing is to consider that ratio billing helps you - only when you're among the units using the most water. o.O
nnephy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:50:24 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I remember when I signed my lease they would let us read it because it "took too long" but my wonderful fiance read it all the night before online so it was fine
Oh and also because of ratio billing my water bill is 3 dollars a month and I take two really long baths a day
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:27:06 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, but assholes like me and my roommate who take 40 minute showers tend to jack up the water bill for the whole unit. But its not like water is expensive. I don't think I've ever had a water bill over $20
lachryma ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 22:30:48 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
As a Californian, MFW. I'm glad I'm on ratio billing now, because the water agencies have been jacking up rates hard. Water competes with electrical bills for a lot of people I know, and those folks are on PG&E, which sends out absolutely mental power bills in the dead of summer.
IsThatWhatSheSaidTho ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:38:08 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
As an Alaska resident, my water bill is $93/month for just my wife and myself in a house. My duplex in WNY bills quarterly as one bill and I haven't had one over $75
lachryma ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:42:01 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well, at least your dividend pays the water. Plus you live in, you know, Alaska.
IsThatWhatSheSaidTho ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:05:25 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, but is it significantly more expensive for a water treatment plant here to operate than it is elsewhere? I'm sure there's plenty of material and sometimes machinery with more expensive shipping costs than other areas, but I doubt that comes close to making up that difference.
StrategicSarcasm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:43:02 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
$93 a month? Sheesh, you could take a shower with bottled water at those prices.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:36:46 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
HA yeah I guess I forgot ya'll have been in a drought for a little while over there. I guess water has gone up a little bit thought in the years I've lived here
cabothief ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:24:55 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well... I live in the SoCal desert. Our water has always been ridiculously cheap. Cheaper than anywhere else we've lived in California, even though it's a desert. To the point where now, during the drought, the cheapness itself is actually a little upsetting.
My mom and I try to save water, and my dad's all "Have you seen our bill? We pay like nothing! Don't even worry about it!" and we're like "yeah but... that's not really the point..."
phoenixink ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:55:04 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Back on the west coast now (hey drought neighbor!) but for the few years we lived on the east coast, we didn't pay a water bill. I almost didn't believe it when my boyfriend mentioned it until he said "Think about it, do you ever remember paying a single water bill?"
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:49:33 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I barely use any water and live by myself and I'm paying around 60-70 a month in water. When I have neighbors who have 4-5 people in a unit with tons of people over at any given time and they are paying the same as me. Doesn't make much sense to me.
critropolitan ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:01:00 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Thats because you personally use more than average utilities, so your neighbors are subsidizing you.
lachryma ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:06:15 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a single man who lives in a studio, who rarely cooks at home and limits shower length to do my part for the drought. I am not using more than average. You failed to factor in vacant units and people going out of town.
LavernicaDeLuca ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:39:14 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Yep, just moved out of an apartment that did this. They based the price on how many people were in the apartment and the size of the apartment. Kind of annoying knowing that I was helping pay for people who use shit tons of water. The worst bills were when the apartment manager hung up "let your faucets drip" signs from November to February. It was rarely even below 40 degrees this past winter so we paid extra for a bunch of morons who let their faucets drip for several months.
The worst part was that they billed 2 months behind so when we moved out, about $100 was deducted from our deposit for "past water bills" even though we never even got to see them. I don't doubt that they were that high given that the average bill was $35-40 but still annoying. The service fee alone was $4 per month.
My current apartment charges $10/month for water.
Carvinrawks ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:11:38 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Breaking: when other people pay for stuff for you, you have more money!
colinKaepernicksHat ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:31:58 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Silly goyim will never catch on.
SquarePegRoundWorld ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:21:03 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It is similar to my car insurance company raising my rate $34 a month for three years because I got into a fender bender that caused them to pay out $753. Do the math.
Kahnza ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 21:36:01 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That should be illegal.
[deleted] ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 22:24:10 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Most places will say "utilities included in rent" and raise the rent accordingly. It's like when I used to sell online. The strategy management came up with was to calculate the average cost of shipping to all 50 states and add that number to the price of the product. There's no such thing as free shipping, it's just bundled in the price of the item.
Doxin ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:55:11 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
except when ordering from aliexpress. because producing and shipping a bluetooth dongle for less than a dollar is rather unlikely.
poopsoupwithcroup ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 21:58:10 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The real estate scheme above? It is in some states. In my state, for example, a landlord can not "submeter" water or heat. If you don't have it on a specific meter for that apartment, you can't take your actual bill and divvy it up. What you can do is just flat out ask for more rent at the get-go, which is what folks do.
krapple ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 23:06:56 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Avalon does this. Except it's $5. The catch is, they own the third party billing company too. In addition to inflating the cost per gallon.
They have some other bad practices (not even legal in some cases). Example; CT law prohibits pet fees, but Avalon will charge you $50/month for a pet, unless you speak up.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:18:34 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Waving my arms wildly yelling ME, ME, ME, ME!!!!!! it is called an administration fee and its $4.50. Blood suckers and cock suckers. Venting is a good thing.
deskmeetface ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:52:33 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I had this at an apartment complex I lived in. It wasn't amusing when the bill fees ended up being more than the actual water cost.
[deleted] ยท 100 points ยท Posted at 19:35:56 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
strikt9 ยท 49 points ยท Posted at 20:06:22 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
And the Mail Collection Surcharge.
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 21:19:57 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
And the tax for wearing puffy pants
mexicanlizards ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 21:31:01 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
One puffy pants tax please.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:48:19 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I meant the tax for NOT wearing puffy pants.
mexicanlizards ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:36:02 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well of course.
Encyclopedia_Ham ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 01:13:33 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
"Fee fee"
and.. subsequently the "Fee fee fee"
Paulo27 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 22:53:00 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Mail them the money and set it up so they have to pay to accept it.
eddiemoya ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 07:56:18 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They'll soon implement the Fee Fee
amplifizzle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:21:14 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Don't forget the fee fie foe fum.
YodaLoL ยท 484 points ยท Posted at 15:35:39 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Companies often add a fee when they send paper bills if other options are available and encouraged.
protomor ยท 240 points ยท Posted at 17:20:22 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I've seen companies make you pay for not using the paper bill system. Like ticket master has the online payment fee.
Catonaroof ยท 96 points ยท Posted at 19:29:54 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Same here. My electric company has a fee if you don't use paperless billing, but if I want to pay my bill online I get charged an electronic processing fee.
kashre001 ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 21:31:01 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Seems like a lose-lose situation.
Can't you make the processing fee go away by directly transferring money from your bank account rather than use a card ? Or does that also have a processing fee ?
Jox2236 ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 23:19:55 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Not op, but my electric company has a third party called "bill matrix" that charges me for any type of online payment, including direct charges to my linked bank account. Only way to avoid a fee is to mail my payment in. Same exact company and situation for my auto payment. The first time I made my car payment online I was charged $10 for paying online with a debit card. It's insane.
shea241 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:09:27 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I've only seen super-scammy credit cards do this. I don't think any of my utilities charge me to pay online.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:21:23 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
sfak ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:05:01 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Why don't you do bill pay?
Hemansno1fan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:16:48 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
My electric too, $1.45 to pay online.
minnick27 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:38:06 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You could try mycheckfree.com. I use it to pay PECO. No fee and I can set up automatic draft. And no I don't work for them, I just use them to save shitty fees
yanroy ยท 105 points ยท Posted at 17:27:24 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
But that's an entirely different scam. Ticketmaster was created to charge more money and take the accompanying anger so venues/bands make more money without being shunned by fans.
Farren246 ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 18:34:10 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
How about Cineplex and their kiosk fee as a better example. I imagine at the board room meeting someone saying "We could encourage people to print tickets themselves, quick and painless, but we'd rather encourage them to wait in line so we can pay someone minimum wage to take their order. Raising overhead costs is key to our success strategy."
5centsable ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 22:10:25 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'd imagine that if more people buy their ticket online, they are less likely to buy popcorn and other overpriced snacks from the theater.
Farren246 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:38:56 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This isn't online vs. in person. This is in person at a kiosk vs. in person at a counter where Cineplex has to pay someone to click the kiosk's same exact links for them.
Station28 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:35:35 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
No kidding. I just bought a ticket to a concert that was $26. By the time I was done, I paid $53 for it.
GigaRebyc ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 05:54:41 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
C/P from a comment I made a few months back.
jazzyt98 ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 19:34:28 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
My power company wanted ~$5 per month to email my bill. I gladly take the paper copy every month for free.
Daniel15 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:50:18 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I seriously don't understand this. It costs the company more to send a paper bill, so why do they charge less for it?
SockPants ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 10:48:24 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It might not actually, if they hire(d) an external company to setup and maintain their digital emailing service.
Metasopher ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:24:20 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
$5 per user per month? No way it could possibly cost that much unless there were like... 50 people
Daniel15 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:09:45 on September 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Do you think that could cost more than the cost of paper, printing bills, and mailing them? That might be the case, I'd love to see some numbers though :)
beau-tie ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:30:40 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yep I get feed for paying my rent online instead of driving to the leasing office and handing them a check.
illegalskittle ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:24:54 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
My water company has a 10$ paperless billing option, and if you use it even once they stop sending you paper bills and wont accept mailed checks, completely taking away any option I have to avoid the fee.
WanderingIdiot2 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:33:27 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
"convenience fee"
RufusMcCoot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:16:34 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
My car registration. It was $7 to use a CC online. Jerks.
peachesgp ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:45:16 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Ticketmaster has an everything fee.
mommy2brenna ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:28:16 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I just paid my property taxes online and the town charged me a "convenience fee" for them not having to do a damn thing, except electronically process my payment.
Denroll ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 19:23:50 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
But if you try to pay a bill online, they add a "convenience fee" because they know I'm way too lazy to go find my checkbook, write a check, find an envelope, write two addresses, and buy a stamp.
shea241 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:11:20 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
how convenient for them
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 00:53:50 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
As stated probably 20 times in this thread, I can switch to paperless, and then they charge me a $4.50 "electronic service fee". So literally the same thing with a different name.
They also charge a fee for paying with a credit/debit card.
No, I can't switch companies.
Sum1Picked4Me ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 13:20:27 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Ever think of using your bank's bill pay service?
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:35:04 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That would change nothing...
Lorgin ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 19:34:46 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This was just made illegal in my province... Because its horseshit
[deleted] ยท 97 points ยท Posted at 16:07:19 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's still mildly infuriating. $4.50 for a piece of paper?
turbie ยท 146 points ยท Posted at 17:18:29 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Not just for paper. Someone has to print it, put it in an envelope, and run it through a postage meter. Then there is the cost of postage.
serume ยท 59 points ยท Posted at 17:45:21 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly, there's a cost for postage, for labor, for materials (paper, envelope, ink).
The company I used to work for charged about $6 for a paper invoice, and in every customer interaction you tried to persuade them to go to electronic invoice or automatic payment. So I don't think there's that much profit in it.
sndwsn ยท 64 points ยท Posted at 18:12:15 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Shouldn't that simply be a cost of doing business? Do I need to pay a fee for the cardboard boxes a big Mac comes in, or the box a laptop is shipped in the the ink used to print the product labelling onto things?
beta_particle ยท 69 points ยท Posted at 18:22:22 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You likely do, but is included up front. This is differentiated to encourage electronic payment, in such a way that you actually have to see the difference.
N6Maladroit ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 22:55:21 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Until I go to make an electronic payment and they tell me there's an additional fee for paying over the phone.
PilotKnob ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:50:12 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Good old Classical Conditioning from Psychology 101.
bigmansam45 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:33:11 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
ClassicalOperant ConditioningFTFY
PilotKnob ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:51:28 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You can tell I never made it to Psych 102.
DoctorSteve ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 18:54:42 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Do you really think the cost of a Big Mac doesn't include the cardboard box?
The cost of a Big Mac includes everything involved in making a Big Mac. The price of beef, the price of shipping that beef, the price of the ingredients, the price of how it is presented, the price of the workers who take your order and make it. Everything is taken into account.
NewWorldDestroyer ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:18:05 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The cost of a Big Mac goes right into the asshole of the store owner and employees when McDonalds makes their promotion mandatory.
So really probably the assholes of the employees as they learn the owner is now going to short a position for an hour each day.
And then you get to wait a while longer because your asshole is the end game. But the whole chain is built on preying on those beneath them and the last link in that chain is your stupid assmouth.
DoctorSteve ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:23:13 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I wanted to touch on that but I didn't want to overcomplicate the supply chain discussion with franchises
NewWorldDestroyer ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:30:17 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks for leaving me enough space to squeeze in a few asses!
DoctorSteve ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:42:37 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Life is about fitting in more asses!
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:03:53 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I dropped out of college before completing my Econ courses but is this what's called "the labor theory of value?" Sorry if it's a dumb question.
sndwsn ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 19:09:36 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Obviously it's included but they don't advertise a big Mac as, say, 10 cents cheaper than a competitor and then Charge you an extra 15 cents as a cardboard box fee. They probably don't advertise cheap water either but this bill fee should just be included into the water fees just as a cardboard box would be included into the price of a big Mac.
CAPTtttCaHA ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 20:10:19 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
But McDonalds doesn't offer a 'Non-Express' serving or 'No Box' burger that you can purchase instead to save money, so of course they don't tack on extra costs as a fee, because there isn't any alternative.
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 19:06:55 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You do pay for all those things. Did you think they were free, courtesy of the company?
dingari ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:43:37 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If you had a choice to take the laptop home, or have it packed in a cardboard box, your example would make sense.
FalseBuddha ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:00:50 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The grocery store doesn't charge me for bags, it's just an operating cost, not something they tack on as a fee. That's the point. Yes, everything gets paid for by the customer, but some things are just overhead and get eaten as a cost of doing business.
dingari ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:25:07 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Here every store charges for the bags.
bigmansam45 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:37:10 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
UK introduces into law next month. Minimum 5p a bag.
To be fair this isn't a cost thing though, it's to change behaviour; the government are saying has to be charged then are requiring companies to produce a receipt showing they gave the earnings to a charity.
Valalvax ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:15:39 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That's really cool, making them donate the profit
bigmansam45 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:23:06 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yer, basically the gov going "we honestly want you to change, it's not a money grab"
dadlookatme ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:21:31 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Stores not charging for bags is the strangest thing I've heard in a long time. Besides, stores that do this just adds the cost of bags to other items in the store to cover their expense, so you already are paying for your bags. You and everyone else.
prickelypear ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:14:46 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Depends on where you go. In my city shops aren't allow to offer plastic bags anymore so they charge you for paper ones. It's still aggravating to get charged for a bill though. Most places that charge you for a paper bill also charge you to pay online too.
GeekCat ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:16:06 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Actually some stores, especially out west and Hawaii are beginning to charge for bags. Aldis only has bags for sale. I know my department store in some CA locations charges you 10ยข on paper and 25ยข on plastic bags.
rallias ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:37:18 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
At least Aldi's lets you use the boxes the food was originally packed in.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:34:26 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
A lot of stores give you a discount for not taking a bag.
ViolentWrath ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:55:48 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
As stated it really depends on if they have an alternative and encourage it. This type of fee makes it seem like they are trying to push you to use the electronic system because it reduces waste, reduces their overhead cost, and they also get tax breaks for reducing their wastes. There are a lot of benefits for companies that go green and staying on the paper system reduces those benefits so if you choose to remain on their paper billing of your own decision then of course they're going to get the money they're losing from you anyway.
zapitron ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:55:16 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You do pay that. It sounds like you simply prefer for it to be hidden rather than itemized.
Desdomen ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 22:23:03 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It is the cost of doing business, and like every other cost of doing business, it goes into the amount customers pay.
You absolutely pay the fee for the cardboard boxes a Big Mac comes in and the box a laptop is shipped in and the ink used to print the labels. You're just usually not told exactly what amount of your total payment is incorporated into those things.
They are merely being open and itemizing it for you instead of hiding in with other costs.
FightingPolish ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:46:11 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They aren't being up front with it, they are doing it the same way that they were before by adding it into the cost, and then they are adding an additional separate charge because it's become well known that this is a huge profit center that people will just pay and it costs them nothing to do it. Cable modem rental fees are a good example of this. I used to pay nothing, it was just a needed piece of equipment that was required to buy the service, then it was $1.99 a month, then $3.99 a month, then $5.99 a month. For what? An obsolete 2.0 cable modem that they can't do anything with after I upgrade and buy my own modem to stop paying those ridiculous fees?
randomguy186 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 23:21:13 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
No, but if you want McDonald's to send you a bill for that Big Mac and let you mail back a check for it, you will probably need to pay a fee.
Prof_Acorn ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 19:23:40 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
So your $6 invoice leaves $5.635 for labor, which at minimum wage means it took your mailroom clerk about 45 minutes to print and stuff one envelope.
Maybe your company should have hired a quicker mailboy.
Either that or they were charging a 700%+ profit on the cost of materials and labor for an invoice.
TanithRosenbaum ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:00:19 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
There's machines that do all that in one go, print, fold, put in an envelope, close, and run through a postage stamper, and throw it in a USPS-approved box. In like 0.1 seconds per letter. Okay they need one technician, and they got deprecation on the machine, which probably adds up to another $0.10 per letter, at most. So yes, they're overcharging there. Massively.
serume ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:22:15 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I forgot one cost (also I'm not in the US, so the costs in general are different). People who pay by paper invoice have the worst payment records. You lose the bill, you forget the bill, you request a replacement bill, you call to find your payment information (sometimes), you call to bitch about your late fees (all the time).
LordScoffington ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 19:32:33 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
No it means it took the entire billing department an hour to do an hours work. You're billing fee isn't the cost of producing your bill it's divided evenly and is the cost of running their billing department.
FightingPolish ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:49:02 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If they are itemizing those costs then shouldn't the rest of your bill go down by the same amount? The fact that it doesn't, and in fact always goes up means they are double dipping and making pure profit on something that is supposed to just be a cost of doing business.
Prof_Acorn ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 19:41:59 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
4.50 x 2,000,000 in a city is an extra $9M of revenue, minus the $740,000 in material costs leaves $1,260,000 in sweet cash money for doing nothing but mailing people their bills, minus labor.
How many people work in billing departments again? I would bet a lot fewer than $1.2M could buy. So where's that extra money going for doing nothing but sending someone a bill?
LordScoffington ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:55:22 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You have no idea how much it costs to finance a billing department neither and do I. I can't say that what they are charging is fair or not. I'm just saying that when you pay for a billing fee you are paying for every single step of the billing process and the wages of the manual labor of those processes.
Maybe they have software licensing costs, maybe they have IT costs relegated to their billing department, maybe there are security costs budgeted outside of IT. There can be special ISP costs that only billing needs, even phone costs that only come from billing. I can spend days listing theoretical things that can exist in a billing function that can be a part of these billing costs but ultimately we just don't know how that business is being run.
There's a lot that goes into running every business they aren't all just trying to screw you over.
LowlySysadmin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:00:48 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Or they could just be charging a completely arbitrary amount that is guaranteed to cover their costs and also provide a healthy chunk of profit, because frankly - fuck it, people will still pay it. And you know what? They do.
It's nice to imagine businesses are all philanthropic and they carefully calculate these sort of charges to ONLY cover the cost of providing the service, but the world doesn't work like that, and I'm pretty sure you know that.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:42:41 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Except they ENCOURAGE people to switch to paperless. They wouldn't be shooting themselves in the foot. It is definitely better long term.
Remember, if you pay by check, they have to take the time to process that too.
bigmansam45 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:31:32 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The last company I worked for I was in the complaints dept and we were actively advised to try and avoid apology letters due to cost. Emails and whatever were fine so it wasn't a liability or guilt thing, just cost.
I had it broken down for me once (bare in mind this is a personal letter over an automated bill) it was ยฃ10-20 ($15-30) per letter. My time to write, my supervisor to proof it, someone to print it and proof it again (at both those stages possibly back to me for clarity), then it had to be posted so envelope/paper/postage; then you have the business cost of having 3 people tied up in the process.
I was getting about ยฃ20k + bonus, then other two people in the scenario would have been getting more.
eretger ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 18:01:27 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This process is automated. If you think there is someone printing, stuffing and stamping these bills, then you are out of your mind.
turbie ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 18:12:22 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Wot?
eretger ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:19:27 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
The water company, like all major companies, have largely automated billing systems. Or they even outsource their billing to companies that automate the billing process. There are huge software companes like Oracle,SAP,MS,etc that provide software/hardware to automate the billing process.
Computers/software generate the bills, some machines print out the bills, some machines print out the envelopes with addresses, some machines put said printed bill into said printed envelopes and finally some machines dump said envelope with bills into bins for outgoing mail.
No need to downvote me for telling you how the real business world works.
Fartmatic ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:56:59 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yep, that's what generally happens. People are often surprised that all sorts of bank statements and utility bills are printed in the same place. I've worked for related companies for the last 15 years and always find it funny like in this thread when people talk about someone actually sitting there manually folding and stuffing things like utility bills - if only they could actually see what a daily run of bills looks like!
There is a department that has people sitting at a table stuffing things in envelopes, but that's for smaller runs and usually for situations where objects like new credit cards or whatever need to be inserted and visually verified.
As for utility bills I generally print around 10000 - 15000 every hour, and then they're wheeled over on big stacker trolleys to the intelligent sorting and mailing machines where they're automatically folded and put into envelopes with whatever other inserts the letter needs, it takes a few of them to keep up with what I print.
dadlookatme ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:07:35 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I've worked for ISPs with millions of customers and the letter-folding is manual. Not saying that every place does it this way, but it goes to show that you can't really assume anything about how a business does business.
eretger ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 21:10:17 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
So if you have to send out mail to millions of customers, you manually fold millions of letters?
dadlookatme ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:15:25 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Not all of them had their bill sent by paper, but yes. Along with contracts, reminder invoices, transfer forms, etc.
-Edit- More than a few customers also used aggregated invoicing, which also reduces the amount of outgoing paper, but the point still stands.
Kevinement ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:08:16 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
yeah, some guy who makes $15 an hour. If we assume he can get 180bills done per hour that is a cost of 8 cents per letter.
The cost of the stamp is 34 cents.
Add to that ink, paper, and electricity and you can maybe add 15cents on top of that to get a grand total of 57cents. My bank charges me 0,54โฌ for sending me the monthly statement of account, that is $0,61 which is a reasonable price and pretty close to my calculation.
$4,50 is a completly unjustified amount of money for sending a bill.
slayer828 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:07:33 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
okay that is ~35cents. Where is the rest?
NinjaFistOfPain ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:24:52 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Labor
slayer828 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:40:16 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
from a machine that auto stuff envelopes?
NinjaFistOfPain ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:01:14 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Cost to keep the machine running?
MikeSV ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:00:47 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
So you think it costs over $4.00 per letter sent to keep the machine running? That would be the most expensive and wasteful machine imaginable.
Prof_Acorn ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:27:47 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
So that $4.50 charge leaves $4.135 for labor, which at minimum wage means the mailroom clerk took about 35 minutes to print and stuff one envelope?
SockPants ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:51:01 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Maintenance cost of printer used Devaluation of printer used Space that printer occupies in rented office
There's no point in 'estimating' some of these numbers, firstly the price is probably not based on the cost but just some bullshit way to make you pay more, and secondly the cost would probably be calculated by adding the total of all company costs and dividing it in some way into the part of that that they think is used by printing and mailing bills.
Curtis_Low ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:53:53 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You don't like profits?
EnsignObvious ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:08:14 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously. It's like everyone in this thread doesn't understand profit margins. Of course they're charging you a relatively outrageous amount for a paper bill. They're trying to make money. Literally nothing you buy (new) will equal the price it took to make. Demand and supply determine the price tag, the cost of materials/labor only provides a starting point.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:31:42 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
There's profit, and there's gouging. There's a difference between the two. Just because they're making a profit on a service fee doesn't mean that a 10,000% profit margin is OK because reasons.
EnsignObvious ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:06:56 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't say I condone it. I'm saying the majority of the thread doesn't seem to recognize that it's a thing. And I'm more than certain that $4.50 charge was meticulously calculated to maximize profits while minimizing complaints. This is mildly infuriating after all, not /r/rage.
fantasticoranges ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:31:55 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah everyone is like "It costs $4 to send me a bill? How wasteful". There are 2 separate things going on here, one, they like making bank, and two, they want you to switch to the online billing instead.
They're not trying to break even on this shit. That's not how you make money.
treadcareful ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:07:38 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Can't you just request an email, or to view it yourself online and avoid the fee?
turbie ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:06:06 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, that's the point of the charge.
MrMallow ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:31:23 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
not to mention the fee is more to discourage people from using paper bills... I dont really know why you would not do e-billing anyway.
rallias ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:06:37 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Insurance against bullshit.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:50:45 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That doesn't cost $4.50. Maybe 50ยข at most.
TheYambag ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 19:17:32 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:55:43 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:57:49 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yes I have. For an employee to print out a piece of paper and put it in an envelope takes maybe two minutes. They can't be getting paid more than $12 bucks an hour. It comes out to pennies for the amount of time they put into it.
Toden ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 18:00:58 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Most of the printing and stuffing can be nearly fully automated, 4.50 is gouging.
ak1368a ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:35:15 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
what are the capital costs of that automation?
TheYambag ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 19:15:04 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
tl;dr: The total cost to print/pack/ship an envelope to a grand total of $0.65 per envelope, with an initial capital cost of $250 for the envelope feeder
Our company uses a lexmark T650n printer, which receive for about $1,100 per unit (significantly cheaper than MSRP because we buy a lot of printers). The cost of the printer is almost negligable because as a business, you need printers. The real added cost is the $250 envelope feeder that we had to purchase. Additionally, we can just highball the paper/toner cost at $0.06 per sheet. Let's say that each bill contains 2 pages, and each windowed envelope costs $0.05. Our bulk mailing service costs about $0.26.8... and yes that's a 0.6 cents, so let's just call it $0.27 per envelope for postage.
Our mailing people are paid well, they make $18/hour, but we don't pay any benefits because we contract them, and their benefits come from their contractor (they only make closer to $11/hour, and the contracting company takes the other $7).
We track the employees, the best ones can do over 100 envelopes per hour (average for their entire 6 hour days), the worst ones will get done about 50 per hour. I'd say that the total average is about 70, so the cost to pack 70 envelopers at $18/hour is $0.26/envelope (rounded up). This brings the total cost to print/pack/ship an envelope to a grand total of $0.65 per envelope, with an initial capital cost of $250 for the envelope feeder.
There is more, these employees take up desk space, management time, we could calculate wear and tare on the printers, but ultimately most of that stuff is rather negligible in the grand scheme of things.
Also, we're a "local" company, we only operate in 3 counties. If we were larger we would farm out our printing to larger companies who could cut these shipping costs by about 30%, by using cheaper labor, and even more bulk purchasing power. But I think that our "local" way of doing things is more relevant to your question.
Signed, an onbase support tech who oversees the printing operations among other things at a company that just barely qualifies as "large" according the Federal standards for businesses (2000 employees).
ak1368a ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:42:05 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Nicely put. Thanks.
jacktheBOSS ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:24:53 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Subtract $.27 an envelope because the government doesn't pay for postage on these things. Although you may want to consider the actual cost of USPS to do it ($.10 maybe?)
terryducks ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:01:54 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
yea, no. This doesn't qualify for a government mailing. Not a non-profit standard mail category.
DMM (Domestic Mail Manual, 703 Nonprofit ...), ... doesn't fall within any of the 1.2 sections.
1.4.2 Government State, county, and municipal governments are generally not eligible for the Nonprofit Standard Mail prices. However, a separate and distinct state, county, or municipal governmental organization that meets the criteria for any one of the specific categories in 1.2 may be eligible, notwithstanding its governmental status.
jacktheBOSS ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:23:28 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This is why government is so inefficient. Can't even vertically integrate correctly.
terryducks ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:16:07 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Seemed awfully high to me but when i checked the rate table and figured on a "customer list" aka not much volume, yea it could fall within that.
Letter rate, under 3.3 oz, LOT/Basic is .256 for automation at the SCF level.
Although for a water bill which should be for "everyone" in a geography, you should be able to hit saturation (everybody on a route) and basic for those people in lightly populated areas.
Something doesn't sound right but i don't have all the details. Most of the customers getting email bills ?
DeadDoug ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:59:35 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
/r/theydidthemath
Come_To_r_Polandball ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:15:19 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
/r/theydidthemonstermath
Toden ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:55:33 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Somewhat substantial but you get higher accuracy more reliably than by using people for such a mundane task. .many smaller municipalities simply outsource the job by sending info needed to a third party that specializes in mailers etc.
ProfWhite ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:00:00 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Not even that. I worked for a school district for a while and the department I was in sent bills to parents for additional services provided by the gifted department (extra materials, books, etc.). One of my jobs (as a 15 year old), was, watch the envelope stuffing machine, and make sure it doesn't jam.
So, this job requires: print a stack of bills. Put the stack in the feeder tray. Watch machine stuff and close envelopes. It folded the letter for you and everything.
Almost complete automation. In 2002.
devperez ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:01:30 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
All of that can be automated.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 18:07:30 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Fartmatic ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:48:28 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That kind of cost is is usually an investment for print/mail companies that will have multiple clients that outsource their bulk mail (like banks and utility companies etc) making it profitable, unless a company produces so much bulk mail that it's justified doing it alone, which is usually not the case.
Prof_Acorn ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:31:57 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Have you considered the CEO's need for a new boat this year?
It's unlikely more than a fraction of that money is going toward materials and labor. Lets just clear the shit and get to what's really going on. The company is charging what it can (even if it's an 800% increase) because the stockholders and CEO want it.
4.50 x 2,000,000 in a city is an extra $9M of revenue, minus the $740,000 in material costs and $90,000 for salaries for three mailclerks, leaves $870,000 in sweet cash money for doing nothing but mailing people their bills. I would even bet that whatever executive came up with this idea got a nice $100k bonus that year.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:19:03 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
NewWorldDestroyer ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:27:20 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They are being privatized...
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:58:29 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
And don't forget the profit margin because they sure as heck aren't going to bill you at cost.
sub_xerox ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:39:16 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
But why is the consumer paying those workers wages then? this is a relatively new thing, is it not?
trchili ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:48:09 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Someone meaning "a machine". Seriously this is one the easiest fucking things ever and I was doing back in 1989 with an old Macintosh 128k and a ledger printer.
YodaLoL ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:09:32 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I think it's justified if other options are available and encouraged.
SaturatedEel ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 17:01:01 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's scummy even if they are encouraging other options. I would be pissed off if I got this bill, its like a lame joke that's just upsetting
YodaLoL ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:18:26 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If they're trying to migrate from paper bills entirely, having a few select customers stay on paper billing is not very cost efficient.
edit: not to mention environmental and productivity issues
Curtis_Low ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:54:54 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Pissed off enough to move to paperless billing? Because that is what they are counting on. And until you do, they will make a profit off of you.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:25:50 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Ticketmaster charges you $8 to use your own printer to print your ticket.
randomguy186 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:19:39 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Nope. $4.50 to cover the mortgage on the printing facility; the cost of the industrial machinery prints, folds, and inserts the bill in the envelope; the software developers who create the software that prints the bill; the employees and managers who oversee the entire process; etc.
If you want an older, more costly billing mechanism, expect to pay for it.
nyj1480 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:45:25 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Companies also often add an electronic billing fee 'if other options are available and encouraged,' it's all just a scam so they can advertise lower prices but still make their money.
Cryogenicist ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:19:18 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If that's the case, they should really rename the fee to something like "Paper Bill Fee" to indicate that more clearly.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:34:53 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
My utilities and isp both charge extra for online/over the phone payments. They also charge extra for sending me my bill and for me to pay it in person :/
Unidan_nadinU ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:53:20 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I went to a Waterpark last week and the online price was $30 with a $10 processing fee, and the price at the gate was $35. I realize it is only a very small difference but still...You'd think it would be cheaper purchasing the tickets off of their website.
Myrmec ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:00:53 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Too bad switching to online billing is a half-day process with most of these dinosaur companies.
evil_user ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:04:53 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Time Warner started charging me for electronic billing when their paper billing was free so I changed to paper billing.
rocbolt ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:01:40 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
My insurance company had a payment fee even though it is paperless and on autopay, it's less than the fee for getting a paper bill but they still think it's worth $1.50
pasaroanth ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:17:35 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
True, but it's generally shown as a "paperless billing" or "eco-billing" discount rather than a bill fee. This is the first time I've seen it like that before.
JustThrownBack ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:52:18 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
4.50$ for paper and 7.00$ for doing it paper free lol
mrdeadsniper ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:52:53 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They also add a fee to any form of payment. Because free money.
flyingwolf ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:19:17 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
My wastewater company does paperless billing, they charge nothing a month for this service to save the environment.
If you get the bill in the mail they charge 5 bucks for the bill
BUT, if you get paperless billing, there is a 5.50 charge for paying online.
HOWEVER, if you get a paper bill but pay online, there is no charge.
So get the paper bill and throw it away without opening it each month, and then pay online to save 50 cents a month and cost the company money.
IronicVisa ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:40:45 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Look who figured out the 2-quarter loophole!!!
Ofreo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:49:46 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Then they charge a convenience fee for printing it yourself.
5rd_place ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:22:52 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The apartment I live in makes me pay a fee if I want to pay electronically. :(
Captain_Phil ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:13:58 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
My apartments have an online payment system. There is a $20 monthly fee to use it.
Luzer606 ยท 264 points ยท Posted at 18:50:29 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
My ex-bank tried to charge me for deposit slips and a teller fee. I flipped my shit and closed my account. I had an account there for around 15 years and I was in their preferred customer loyalty club bullshit feel good promotional thing. The bank manager was called when I asked to close my accounts and transfer all my funds to another bank where I had opened a new account. The guy didn't get it that I was not going to pay them 50 cents to deposit my money and 3 bucks to use a teller to deposit or withdraw my money. He was going on and on how I could just use the ATM machine for free. He blinked hard and took step back when I asked how customers who weren't preferred loyal customers got treated. He left and a women closed out my accounts for me. While she was doing it she said they were losing hundreds of customers a week due to extra fees for everything.
wetwater ยท 88 points ยท Posted at 21:11:46 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I dropped a bank because for the same reasons. When I went to pay off a loan and close out my accounts and credit card they kept me waiting for over an hour, then I had to talk to three different people to close out each account. They even tried to charge a fee for closing my accounts, which they reversed because by then I was beyond pissed and started getting a little loud.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 21:38:16 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
wetwater ยท 33 points ยท Posted at 21:52:56 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That particular bank was more than happy to charge a maintenance fee every month for the privilege of having an account with a zero (and then negative) balance. It was one of the several motivations I had for closing all the accounts I had with them. I think about a third of the charges on my credit card were just fee, nor could I get a straight explanation of those fees. I gave up trying to balance my check book every month and I just accepted whatever was printed on my savings accounts balance, though that was a bit more straight forward. Towards the end I'd just keep a running tally of my estimated balances and would go to the ATM (which was not yet a fee) to check balances if I needed to know exactly how much I had available at that point in time.
I switched to a credit union after that with zero fees. The only problem with them that I had is while they pushed online banking and all that snazzy stuff (it was fairly new back then), it was not a simple process. I had to fill out paperwork and make three separate visits to the credit union. In the end it wasn't worth the effort since there wasn't a lot of places at the time that took online or electronic payments, it was either by credit card or mail a check.
Serrated_Banana ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:26:37 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Was it Bank of America? They tried to pull that shit on me.
wetwater ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:53:47 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Fleet Bank. They bought out my previous bank.
Pitboyx ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:53:36 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Some banks have monthly fees for accounts that have less than $1500 in them by the end of the month.
Jox2236 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:25:49 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
One time my ex-bank decided that a balance inquiry, even on their own ATMs, deserved a $1 fee. After I emptied my account, I called to cancel. Before I could reach a representative, there was an automated message telling me that they were removing the extra fees due to "numerous customer complaints". I closed my account anyway and never looked back.
Gravelfoot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:45:30 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Here in Denmark it is really easy to change banks, which helps with competition. You simply go to the new bank, where you want to be a customer and tell them. They then give you a piece of paper to sign giving them the authority to do the rest.
Only takes longer than that if you have anything that needs special attention, like loans that need to be approved in the new bank and things like it. But you never have to deal with your old bank if you don't want to.
iamPause ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 02:24:09 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Banker here. That's some bullshit. Fuck that place and good on you for not bending over and taking it. We need more well-informed customers like you who are willing to go through the work of changing banks when they pull shit like that. That's the only way they'll (we'll) ever stop.
slapshotten11 ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 21:10:01 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 21:12:37 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
RPG game
redvblue23 ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 21:17:26 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Personal Identification Number number.
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 21:26:26 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Vehicle Identification Number number
Bastard_Toby ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 21:37:31 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Detective Comics Comics
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 21:50:18 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
John Ellis Bush Bush
bighunt16 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:30:42 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
George Oscar Bluth Bluth
Pitboyx ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 21:54:26 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Personal computer computer.
YM_Industries ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:45:29 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Redundant Acronym Syndrome syndrome
DildoGiftcard ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:25:15 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Why are you being downvoted?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome
YM_Industries ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:59:14 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Meh, you win some, you lose some.
EmotionalKirby ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:36:56 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
ooooooh thats a new one to me
Luzer606 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:15:19 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Be thankful I didn't call it a Mac Machine.
wetwater ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:42:36 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Big, that brought me back about 25 years. The store I worked at in high school had one. It was very large and imposing, and not used all that often. I don't know how the store justified having it.
Serrated_Banana ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 06:25:49 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Bank of America had a program linked with my former employer where you got a certain amount of money put into an account for OTC medical expenses. You never had to deal with Bank of America, just use the debit card and go through my employer. After the funds were out that was supposed to be it. BoA decided that I needed to keep paying account fees even though I no longer had anything associated with them. They sent me a bill for 45 dollars on "account maintenance" of an empty account that they wanted me to pay. I pitched a shit fit.
Myrmec ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 20:03:13 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Your bailout dollars at work.
cigerect ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 23:39:06 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
What do you mean, exactly?
Myrmec ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:28:44 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Uhhhh we gave the banks billions of dollars, and they're still nickel and diming customers?
Jubguy3 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:43:27 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
ALL HAIL CREDIT UNIONS
sleepyhead ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:15:56 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If I am a customer at the same bank and only using automated services. Why should I cover for the expenses you and others using employees times for services that you can perform from a machine? They must collect revenue to cover those costs, thus they have to rise their prices somewhere. Why not charge a direct fee to that cost?
Luzer606 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:19:06 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If the machine is free then how are you covering anyone's expenses? The people paying the extra fees for services are paying for you to get free use of the machine. As soon as my bank started charging itemized fees for every little thing I took my business elsewhere.
sleepyhead ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:10:34 on September 23, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Read my comment again. Unless they charge you money for a service that has a cost to it then the bank would have to cover that cost by raising interesting rate or have higher fees on other services. So yes I would be paying for you.
fappyday ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:21:23 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
In capitalist America, bank robs you.
dogattorney ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:47:33 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Luzer606 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:01:30 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I will abandon a cart full of merchandise in the store if they don't have any registers open with cashiers and expect me to scan and bag all my stuff. I have never used the self checkout where the machine didn't fuck up and stall me in the store. They put one person to over see 6 to 8 self check out lines and everything gets crowded and backed up because the machines are still pieces of shit being beta tested live. I'm fine with the self check out for 6 items or less but If I have a cart full of purchases like when I do my monthly grocery shopping I'm not doing self check out.
dogattorney ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:06:52 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Luzer606 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:20:14 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The self checkout lanes are also set down lower to scan and bag. I'm 6'3" in bare feet and taller in work boots. Its a strain on my lower back to hunch and stoop over to use the machine to scan and bag. I've gotten back spasms from stooping over to scan a months worth of groceries which includes cases of water in bottles and gallons. I'd have no problem on a normal conveyor check out height scan and bag station.
nugohs ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:14:03 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm sure the bank exec or high level manager got a huge bonus for implementing these fees, never mind that they actually cost the bank a lot more in lost customers in the long run.
hoguemr ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 21:08:22 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Mine has a "Customer Charge". Wtf http://i.imgur.com/0fndx1Y.jpg
Edit: And I only receive this bill electronically. I do not receive a paper bill in the mail.
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 21:25:15 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, snarky people keep telling me this will disappear if I switch to paperless cuz I so dim. Except when you switch to paperless this company charges you $4.50 electronic service fee. They just change the name of the fee.
saarlac ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:44:43 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Conservice?
hab136 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:52:20 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That's an electric bill. Because of net metering, a lot of electric companies are moving to a base grid connect fee plus a per-kWh charge. This way people with solar panels pay to maintain their connection to the grid.
That may or may not be what your "customer charge" is.
Mataraiki ยท 60 points ยท Posted at 18:27:31 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
"I'm sorry that you're displeased with the physical bill fee, sir. Would you like to avoid this charge by switching to paperless billing?"
"Yes, please."
"All right, you've confirmed that you'll be switching. Now that that is in the system, you'll be charged a monthly $9 convenience fee."
K3R3G3 ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 20:58:54 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
lol, like they'd tell you. You'd just eventually see it online.
charliebeanz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:21:00 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
And automatic withdrawals from your checking account!
ArtThouAngry ยท 80 points ยท Posted at 15:39:34 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Want to trade? Mine is $85 a month.
dav0r ยท 38 points ยท Posted at 16:47:29 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah that's an obscenely low amount for a water bill. My house is about $65-$75 a month.
evan938 ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 17:06:24 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Both of these are crazy. I live alone, but it's about $30/mo on average. When I've had roommates, it's only like $40/mo.
xc0z ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 19:09:16 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
All of these bills are crazy... Mine is $22 per quarter, or per 3 months. I use a lot of water, and I live in Maryland....
Robert237 ยท 45 points ยท Posted at 20:11:10 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
All of these bills are crazy! My local water company actually pays me $50 a month for using their water, in a year I get $600 for being a loyal customer!
yeeeeeehaaaw ยท 47 points ยท Posted at 21:31:13 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
All of you guys are crazy! My local water company actually sucks my dick while I sit on my lawn with my sprinkler going 24/7!
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 10:20:52 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
relatively applicable username
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 20:33:42 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
ir199 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:16:53 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I don't believe you. What kind of reasonable non-stupidly wealthy person pays $800 a year for "the cleanest water evarrrr!"
xc0z ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:40:24 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Californians.
MrMallow ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:10:38 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I live at 10,000 ft above sea level rurally in the CO Rockies, my neighborhood is about 20 miles from the nearest town and consists of about 20 houses. We have our own small water treatment plant for our neighborhood that converts a local spring into our house hold drinking water in a several thousand gallon tank. Yes, statistically our water is the cleanest in the US, considering it sees very little contamination and usually was snow melt previously.
NewWorldDestroyer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:41:21 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Mine is $45 a month minimum. That includes the first 3 or 4 units of water. If you use less than that then you still pay for it all.
Something about that irks me even though I go over 70% of the time.
Save water? Just for you to pocket the difference? The fuck is that!
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 20:26:45 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
FinagleTanj ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:53:27 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Water? You mean like out the toilet?
xbleeple ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:04:17 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Do you happen to live in a state that may not have a ton of water?
dav0r ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 17:12:06 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
No in Canada, we just charge a lot more for water.
footpole ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:33:38 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That seems silly, you should have as much water as we do in Finland.
tabytomcat ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:31:57 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Not in centeral canada. 30-50 per quarter year for a single person. Sorry.
ArtThouAngry ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:15:56 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I live in an area where the water company takes advantage of the fact that they are the only one in town.
xbleeple ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:30:53 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
We only have municipal water around here, I can only imagine if it was just one private company.
irishjihad ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:59:45 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The day will come when your municipality decides to outsource/privatize that service to "save money", and you'll be just as screwed. Sadly, it's better to live with paying the lazy municipal workers than a company chasing profits and trying to cut maintenence costs.
CBlackrose ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:07:25 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
We kind of did that with our power here. It's privatized but funded by the government or some bs like that so it's more or less a government-backed monopoly. It really sucks.
tabytomcat ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:33:50 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Garbage collection is a big one, they start of lower, insist on using there own equipment, and slowly jack up the price when switching back is no longer an option.
snowbirdie ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 17:18:26 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I live in Cali and my water bill is $12/mo for a 1300 sq townhouse apt. Use less water.
Sexual_tomato ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:39:51 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I could use zero water and I would have to pay more than that just to be connected to the system.
LNFSS ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:26:51 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Is your water bill also your garbage / recycling pick up and sewer bill? I only actually paid $15.59 for 11000 litres of water for 4 people in a month. The rest of the bill is fees for garbage, recycling, sewer, fixed rate etc. Bill came out to $91.59 CAD last month and that's low. It's usually around $110 CAD.
w4y ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:00:22 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
In Seattle area, water bill is around $100 here.
The thing is $95 of that is a fixed rate. $5 is actual water usage.
xbleeple ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:30:11 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That's low! I live in a 2 bed apartment and my bill was almost 3x that. My water was only $11 but my sewer and bogus fees made up the rest of it.
psycoth ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:03:57 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Wait. Why does the square footage of your apartments matter? Are you periodically filling them with water?
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:54:24 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's pro rated. Not a full month, just moved in.
trchili ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:51:59 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I pay by the quarter and don't reach that dollar amount. I actually pay more for sewer service. But that's mostly because the sewer dept here sucks ass. Well, they ought to suck shit straight out my ass on demand for what I pay them.
lhtaylor00 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:35:40 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Want to trade? $200 here. It's lumped in with the utility and sewage bill, which was $458 last month.
ArtThouAngry ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:47:41 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, but what is that in Schrute Bucks?
LumberCockSucker ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:03:38 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not sure, but it's about 60,000 Stanley Nickels.
ArtThouAngry ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:16:56 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Ho Lee Shit
XirallicBolts ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:25:51 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm seeing all these and trying to convert them. Water is strange here. It's billed quarterly, includes garbage and recycling and fire hydrant fees, and the meter measures in hundreds of cubic feet instead of, you know, gallons.
That said, I take long showers and average $160/3 months
gergles ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:33:42 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
100 cf (1 ccf) of water is ~750 gal. https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1%20ccf%20of%20water%20in%20gallons
XirallicBolts ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:45:40 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Still. Odd unit of measurement.
dan1101 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:59:19 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Mine is $0 per month. Well maybe a few pennies of electricity for the well pump.
ArtThouAngry ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:36:18 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If it weren't illegal to dig a well in the city limits, I would. The tap water here smells/tastes like a swimming pool.
dan1101 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:44:28 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I know what you mean, I can't drink the water in most restaurants.
However with a well I will eventually have an expensive well pump and/or expansion tank replacement.
raculot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:54:28 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, you definitely still pay for the water, you just pay for it all at once when your well pump fails suddenly. We had to replace ours a few months ago and it was over a thousand dollars including the labor.
dan1101 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:54:37 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Still not bad though, they last 10 or 20 years from what I've heard. $1000 is equal to 12 months or so of $85 per month water bills.
acaseofthesits ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:52:40 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Mine is $200 for 2 people, a cat, and a dog. We shower no more than every other day, have no washer machine, and no dishwasher.
Best part is it's not safe to drink :D
tasmanian101 ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 19:40:45 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Dishwashers use a lot less water than handwashing. Even the most water efficient handwash still uses around 33% more water.
tabytomcat ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:40:16 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If I waited for a full load, everything would be so caked on I would have to wash by hand anyway. But for a family I'm sure that would work well.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:48:56 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That's why (good) dishwashers have a soak/pre-rinse cycle
XirallicBolts ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:30:36 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yep. Just bought a whirlpool gold dishwasher. 5 gallons for a normal cycle. An average sink is around 11 gallons to fill a single basin, plus your rinse water.
Jesus, swype. When I type "single basin", DO NOT AUTOCORRECT TO DOUBLE BASIN.
Myrmec ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:02:00 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You may want to find out if you have leaks.
acaseofthesits ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:26:07 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
No leaks, we just moved in and had an inspection. I knew the city was higher than average, but after asking coworkers, I think they may have overcharged us a little. I haven't received my second bill yet.
love-from-london ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:47:55 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's included in my rent. However, my rent is also $1550/month for a tiny studio in Manhattan. I just pay for electricity, internet, and gas.
DwelveDeeper ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:39:11 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
love-from-manhattan
love-from-london ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:34:19 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I moved, bro.
Febtober2k ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:20:41 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Your gas isn't included in your rent? That's pretty rare in NYC. Does it skyrocket in the winter?
love-from-london ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:34:02 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Heat is included, but Con Ed still gives me a separate gas bill.
Febtober2k ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:42:40 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Oh okay, that's not so bad then. I imagine cooking gas can't be too much per month.
love-from-london ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:24:33 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, it's really not much. It's basically just a "delivery fee" or whatever.
jonnyohio ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:09:03 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Mine is $113 this month but it includes a $13 garbage collection fee, a $10 EPA water mandate fee, and another $15 EPA water mandate fee, because our city did not meet the new rules that the EPA decided to make up, and we had to pay a fortune to put in a reservoir. The water is actually worse now.
NewWorldDestroyer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:48:41 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Like the city can control the rain!
Sewer overflowed into the river more than 15 times in a year? That is what you get for letting it rain so hard in such a short period 15 times!
(in swoops mr moneybags with a hell of a deal to fix the "problem")
"Just quadruple your water rates and give me 3/4 for the privilege of having enough money to build the thing with the knowhow to do so and my cousin, err, the EPA will leave you alone." - Mr Moneyballs
"But how did you come in a week after they mandated the thing with the layout of our system and the blueprints tailored specifically to that expensive plot of land?" - Mr City
"I am that good mr city." - Scrooge McFuckingDuckDick
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:54:49 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's pro rated. Not a full month. Just moved in.
MerryMortician ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:12:14 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I have a well.
Sometimes I like to just let all the water run and dance.
MrZen100 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:00:11 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If you want a low water bill come live in Hawaii. Naturally clean water. My bill with 12 people living in the residence and a lot of visitors has been averaging around $40
It'll be hard to afford the home and food, but you can take long, guiltless, showers.
damnyou777 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:38:02 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
One of the benefits of living in California. We don't have water bills.
ArtThouAngry ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:47:43 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Can't charge for something you don't have.
damnyou777 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:49:53 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. We're completely safe from it!
ArtThouAngry ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:33:54 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Way to stick it to the man!
OC4815162342 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 18:21:14 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
My electric company does this. It's usually $15 a fucking month
epicblob ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 21:28:58 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
"I'm not paying $11 for water."
"Well then we're turning off your water."
"Okay fine, I'll pay for water. But I won't pay for sewer."
"Well then you won't have access to the sewer."
"Okay fine, I'll pay for water and sewer. But I won't pay the bill fee."
"Well then you... shit."
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 01:14:33 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
PlNKERTON ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 23:57:25 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Convenience fees...
"We found a convenient way to get more money out of you. It's this. Right here. You can't continue unless you give us more money."
Why?
"Um, because?"
How does this service burden you?
"It doesn't. We just want more money from you."
Why not just raise your initial price?
"Because we value our customers."
Neil_Patrick_Bateman ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:47:40 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
"because that part of the bill is government regulated" FTFY
2GabbasHey ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 18:44:47 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I can pay my rent online...however, if I use a credit/debit $1.95, eCheck $3.95, direct checking costs something I can't remember. It's cheaper for me to buy a USPS money order. And the money is instantly debited from my account. I imagine it is more "inconvenient" for them to cash it, too. Mildly infuriating.
IronicVisa ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 22:38:33 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I sort of get the card fee, though it is probably through an account that charges your management company far less than $1.95 per transaction.
The amazing thing is that the eCheck is most likely 100% free for your management company since ACH transactions are free to pretty much everybody these days. That is $3.95 of pure profit.
2GabbasHey ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:44:18 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Also, I use a Visa. Isn't that ironic.
Thexorretor ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:58:40 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Find a service with free online billpay. I use fidelity, but I'm sure others work well. You just fill out the info and it will mail out the check for your. I also like a centralized location for all of my bills rather.
2GabbasHey ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:19:06 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks for the tip, friend. Bummer is i get paid every other Friday. Do these services account for that? When I got paid on the 1st and 15th that kind of schedule made it easy.
Thexorretor ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:33:39 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They do have certain features for reoccurring expenses. If you're living paycheck-to-paycheck, it'd be smarter to just individually schedule each payment. The information will all be there; you just enter an amount.
2GabbasHey ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:27:17 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks for the tip.
deathwish644 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:08:09 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
My complex let's you pay online. To pay once through the system, be it check or credit, it's $35.
Recurring payments through credit are $35. Only way you can get around it is recurring ACH that requires some kind of stupid setup and charges $3.50 per transaction.
Asked the management who was smoking what (because I want some) when they set those fees. Apparently a ton of people actually use the system! I'll walk to the office with a check for those rates.
2GabbasHey ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:26:57 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Holy crap! That is ridiculous!! $420 a year just to pay rent. It's criminal.
gatormommy4114 ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 18:25:29 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If my water bill was that low, I would not complain about a billing fee.
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 00:55:36 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's pro rated. Not a full month. Just moved in.
gatormommy4114 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:02:59 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Okay, that makes more sense. :)
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:22:50 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
gatormommy4114 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:51:34 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Gee, why didn't I think of that? :)
afadedgiant ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:48:37 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
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gatormommy4114 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:55:25 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, ours is ridiculous. Never lower than $60 a month, more often than not it is in the $75-$100 range. It blows. I hate having water through the city. It is difficult to not use a lot with my husband and me and our three kids. Multiple showers and loads of laundry every day adds up.
SteveAM1 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:19:58 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
All companies do this. Your water company simply breaks it out on the bill.
yParticle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:42:47 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well, don't.
jzerocoolj ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 20:55:25 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I really hate this and other "we're charging you this because fuck you, what are you going to do about it?" fees.
I get charged a convenience fee for paying my bill online. I'm literally transferring electronic funds from one account to another. If I mailed a check you'd have to pay some shithead to open the envelope, verify the amount, and process the check. If anything online bill pay should have a convenience discount. "Thank you for cutting 90% of the work out of this transaction!"
lamdog220 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 18:00:43 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Classic Bill
omnichronkappa ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:45:56 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Classic Jenny
redditpie ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:51:25 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Damn them kisses
bibowski ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:50:50 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They could at least hide it as an 'admin fee' like EVERY other company.
deathwish644 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:13:02 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
My utility management company charges admin fees for each line item. Water? Admin fee. Sewer? Admin fee. Bill? Admin fee.
Service? Service fee!
TX727 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:05:32 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
State Farm wanted to charge me a $99 fee to have my monthly bills delivered in the mail. It was free with auto withdraw from my credit card. Still pisses me off.
deathwish644 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:14:26 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Uhh... Hate to break it to you, but State Farm charges $1/mo to pay their insurance monthly.
ArtificialIntell ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:50:08 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
My water company charges me for paying the bill. $5 fee for paying online
aedansblade36 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:23:29 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's like a convenience fee... Inconvenient.
yParticle ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:40:15 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'll waive bill service henceforth. It's just not worth $4.50 anymore.
soulslicer0 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:43:55 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This is called a Fuck you fee
TedFartass ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:33:41 on October 4, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Zach we got a letter in the mail...
bystormageddon ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:47:18 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yo, dawg! I heard you like bills...
wetwater ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:53:43 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I had a credit card years ago that had fees like that. It was more than mildly infuriating, especially when I didn't use that card a whole lot.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:35:47 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Hey man, postage isn't cheap these days and writing up those bills take a true literary genius, also not cheap.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:28:03 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
yeah but they charge the same fee with online billing, which is all scripted. Well, I guess someone had to write the script, but it's not like they don't make enough money to pay for that.
Seeda_Boo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:39:08 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Contact your state's Attorney General with a complaint.
Terakahn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:39:13 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I know some companies do that so you switch to electronic billing.
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:20:45 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I have looked into it. There is a $4.50 electronic service fee.
Terakahn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:47:46 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well that's just a shitty company then =p
Hillside_Strangler ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:52:49 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0ahJPxfGp4
WillRoque ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:13:11 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm surprised it's not in Brazil.
ilektwix ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:25:45 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Give yourself a discount for admin fees.
aazov ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:38:42 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
What next - a 'checkout fee' at the supermarket? In the UK, The Trainline has a 'booking fee.'
Swanksterino ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:22:11 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Totally, check out fee at the self service check out, for the privilige.
kwicks ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:43:16 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
A more palatable approach to this additional cost is to wrap the fee into the service cost then apply a discount when the customer uses a the less costly online bill service.
Just carrot vs. stick I guess.
Beadheadnymph ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:45:47 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Damm that's a big fee in relation to the amount of the actual bill.
It reminds me of the time I got nosebleed seats at Shea that had a face value of less than the ticketmaster surcharge.
sec713 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:46:57 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Better call Saul!
temporarylogin22 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:07:27 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
for xcel energy it's a "convenience" charge for paying with a debit or credit card
xcelthrowaway ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:36:58 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I work at Xcel Energy and this is not true. There is a $3.45 processing fee for using a card and we do not benefit from it. We would love if all our customers used direct debit through a checking account and there is no charge for that. We run cards through a third party processor and that's why the fee is applied. It's not for "convenience" nor do we claim it to be.
Swanksterino ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:20:52 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
No way does it cost Xcel $3.45 to process a credit card, $0.45 maybe.
xcelthrowaway ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:54:29 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It used to be higher at around $4.75. Our processor has their own call center dedicated to taking payments. There's a lot more involved in the cost than just the fees from the card company.
sun-up-sun-down ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:11:09 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Our city owned electric has a $14/bill fee
Sanjuro7880 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:17:23 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
"Why do I have to pay you to pay you?" -Bill Burr
kangarooninjadonuts ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:20:31 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Fee fees
arkbg1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:20:43 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Dominos "delivery fee" (admitted blatant lie) is up to 3$per delivery now
Edit pet to per
Swanksterino ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:19:01 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
What if you don't have any $3 pets? :(
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:29:58 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They have to pay the driver gas and hourly wage. Source: am delivery driver.
arkbg1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:48:14 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It was a scam invented in 2002 http://archive.columbiatribune.com/2002/aug/20020812busi012.asp
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:44:51 on September 20, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They wouldn't pay me a gas allowance if it wasn't for that charge, so I don't see how it's a scam.
arkbg1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:33:30 on September 20, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yes they could, and used to. I was a dominos driver before 2003.
Johnputer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:51:10 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Every company ever does that. They just don't write it explicitly on the bill.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:55:45 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This is one of the things that pisses me off the most... "You mean I have to pay you so that I can pay you?!?!"
zCourge_iDX ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:03:13 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This is pretty normal in Norway when there's an electronic alternative for the invoice, to encourage electronic and paper-saving.
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:31:41 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
As stated probably 20 times in this thread, I can switch to paperless, and then they charge me a $4.50 "electronic service fee". So literally the same thing with a different name.
They also charge a fee for paying with a credit/debit card.
No, I can't switch companies.
njott ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:06:37 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Do you shower?..
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:32:31 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Pro rated. Just moved in.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:31:04 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
jesus I feel bad for you for how many times you've stated the same thing in this thread.
NPK5667 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:11:48 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Is there a bill fee for the bill for the bill?
SagamiSurprise ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:24:44 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You'd love Japan
Sportsnut19 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:38:14 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
What about those damn energy company commercials?!?! At the end I always hear "paid for by a charge on customer energy bills" why the hell does the cost of advertising fall on me?!
Swanksterino ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:17:48 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Salesman here :) Almost half of whatever you pay for a given item, is what it cost to sell it to you in the first place! Capitalism!
Sportsnut19 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:31:49 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
yeah working in sales has showed me nearly everything is a rip off
Swanksterino ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:46:48 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I you end up buying it, it's a fair price. Unless it's extortion, like medical bills or maybe car repair.
Dorito_Troll ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:40:07 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
See if they have an online version, a lot of company's do this due to paper costs and just general greed
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:41:09 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
As stated probably 20 times in this thread, I can switch to paperless, and then they charge me a $4.50 "electronic service fee". So literally the same thing with a different name.
They also charge a fee for paying with a credit/debit card.
No, I can't switch companies.
Dorito_Troll ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:43:04 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
ah, so its general greed then
sean_themighty ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:08:31 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Wow. My water bill (in Indiana) is $94/mo for up to 1000 gallons.
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:47:42 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This is pro rated
DarthContinent ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:20:48 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I used to work for a company that handled billing for utility companies.
They generally will work to bill the customer for as much as they possibly can within the guidelines of whatever regulatory body (e.g. a public service commission) will allow. Fees of various types, above and beyond government taxes and surcharges, were basically gravy.
thesilentstapler ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:26:27 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I just found out that my internet company charges me to use Wi-Fi on the modem I am also being charged to use.
Travdaman420 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:26:44 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Hell my electric company charges us 65 dollars for a distribution charge on 22 dollars worth of electricity.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:31:55 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Go electronic billing?
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:51:25 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
As stated probably 20 times in this thread, I can switch to paperless, and then they charge me a $4.50 "electronic service fee". So literally the same thing with a different name.
They also charge a fee for paying with a credit/debit card.
No, I can't switch companies.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:54:00 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That truly is infuriating. Sorry bud.
probdub ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:37:13 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yo dawg, I heard u liked bills so I put a bill in yo bill so u could have a bill on yo bill
fastorment ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:39:07 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Chance of infinite recursion?
843564485 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:39:24 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Possible recursive billing black hole there...
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:55:14 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This fee is actually illegal in CA
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 00:58:48 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
There's water in Cali?
twistedwick6501 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:05:45 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Indiana, as well, my friend...
highwind2013 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:03:21 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Sign up for ebill. problem solved.
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 01:06:33 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
As stated probably 20 times in this thread, I can switch to paperless, and then they charge me a $4.50 "electronic service fee". So literally the same thing with a different name.
They also charge a fee for paying with a credit/debit card.
No, I can't switch companies.
So no, problem not solved.
akmarksman ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:09:03 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They're literally Jews..
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 01:07:25 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:08:29 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It might be the law where you live, for example, this is illegal in Cali. It is unfortunately not illegal here. There is no law stating they can't do this here. Laws are not universal.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 01:09:06 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:16:00 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
http://imgur.com/gallery/l0HU3AV
twistedwick6501 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:04:46 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Only in America. My Gas company has me read my own meter for their services and charges me when they think there is an error and sends a guy to read it. They charge even if there was not an error on my behalf because it is a CO-OP
Stovek ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:24:53 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
My car payment charges a $15 "convenience fee" if I pay online. This is the only bill I feel I have to mail a check to.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:50:57 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's billsallthewaydown
bronco90 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:57:16 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm moving in two weeks and my water company wants $150 deposit to transfer service. I have been at my old place for 10 years. Assholes.
wrxcitemike ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:04:07 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know if it was posted already but cell phone companies charge you tax for the convenience of having them collect all the taxes for you. Some may have seen them since it's a per line charge. (regulatory fees, or something similar). I also like the universal service fund. Which is supposed to go to lower income markets to provide service lines for phones or internet. (It's been a while but the last report I read on where it actually went was to provide fiber optic cabling for hotels in very well to do areas.)
agangofoldwomen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:04:26 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
To busy fucking you in the ass to give you the common courtesy of calling it a service fee...
rangoon03 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:38:05 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
My electric and gas companies charge a $4 "convenience" fee to pay their bill online. Verizon, Comcast, credit card companies, etc. don't do this. Only utilities. Why?
rrut76 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:46:20 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Comcast is doing Water now? Too far
dircs ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:46:33 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That's lame, but I'd happupy take it for a $20 water bill.
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:20:54 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Pro rated. Not a full months worth.
ianamls ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:47:21 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I pay 5.99 a month as a "convenience fee" on my water bill which is sent out by the management company, not the actual utilities company. I find it a very convenient way to spend 6 bucks
NukaCooler ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:57:43 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I hate "convenience fees" when paying for tickets online. $5 fee, and the tickets are $10 more expensive at the gate.
JGTX ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:09:00 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
ATX?
assistedSUICIDE ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:10:54 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
My electric company charges a fee for paying cash or credit/debit and nothing if you use a check. It's the fucking Twilight Zone over there...
glacierfanclub ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:11:28 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That's massively infuriating. Didn't know Ticketfly got into the water game
Zombiewax ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:13:52 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Switch to electronic bills!
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:22:07 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
As stated probably 20 times in this thread, I can switch to paperless, and then they charge me a $4.50 "electronic service fee". So literally the same thing with a different name.
They also charge a fee for paying with a credit/debit card.
No, I can't switch companies.
Zombiewax ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:28:09 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Sorry dude I really didn't know it was mentioned that many times. It does suck, though.
theY4Kman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:25:41 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Would you rather they included it in the water fee, or would you be just as infuriated the month you used no water at all?
proROKexpat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:52:41 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Did you know in Korea its common for the landlord to pay your water bill for you? Its because the amounts are so small its considered a bigger logistical challenge to bill you for water then it is to just have one bill for the whole apartment.
I've had 3 apartments in Korea, each time I've always been told "You pay oil and gas I pay water bill" I asked my landlord (about why this always seems to be the case) and he said "Its easier for me to just pay it"
He says his entire apartment complex (they got 8 apartments in his building) costs him about $15 an month in water.
He could go through the steps/cost of billing each unit separately. But some bills would be very small (like 50 cents) and the biggest would be like $4.
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:01:20 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This bill is very very small. It was pro rated, a regular bill for me will probably be closer to $60.
gourmetsweetbuns ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:08:33 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The water company before I moved would charge 3 dollars extra convenience fee if I choose to pay the bill online so I just send them a check each month.
jesussmoke ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:46:49 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Most companies now, or at least many banks in Canada have this. They charge you for using paper to send to your house. They are basically pushing you to do online payments for a "better environment", ie. Going paperless and what not.
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:09:44 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
As stated probably 20 times in this thread, I can switch to paperless, and then they charge me a $4.50 "electronic service fee". So literally the same thing with a different name.
They also charge a fee for paying with a credit/debit card.
No, I can't switch companies.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:48:03 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair it's better than them doing another bullshit fee. Printing your bill, paying to mail it to you, and then having you send it in and hiring someone to process it properly. Sounds like a fair $4.50 fee. Now if they charge you this online then yeah I'd get a little mad.
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:33:30 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
As stated probably 20 times in this thread, I can switch to paperless, and then they charge me a $4.50 "electronic service fee". So literally the same thing with a different name.
They also charge a fee for paying with a credit/debit card.
No, I can't switch companies.
bbpgrs ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:52:31 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Is that in dollars? I don't know much about the subject but this seems very cheap. I pay $100+ for water&sewer bills every month.
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:34:00 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Pro rated. Not a full month. Just moved in.
spiked-whiskey ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:04:50 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I would love your water bill...mine in my tiny shit hole town is 440 every 3 months!!
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 06:34:20 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Pro rated. Not a full month. Just moved in.
....But $150 nearly per month?? Where the fuck do you live? Sea World?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:31:57 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I see why he spikes his whiskey.
spiked-whiskey ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:32:02 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Sea world would be way more fun then my shit town... I live in a little town in the middle of the bush in the middle of Ontario.. Approx 900 ppl live here.
Bramblez1138 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:50:05 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm thinking they have a paperless option and this is their way of pushing it. Still rather rediculous though.
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:01:17 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Paperless still charges $4.50 for "electronic services". So, same bill, different name.
Bramblez1138 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:08:12 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Oh fun... it's the 'bend you over' fee then
Derbinswithamustach ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:51:21 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
4.50 aswell they got some nerve.
DTraktor ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:27:13 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yo dawg..
rugged13 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:32:29 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Last month I paid $9 in gas and $35 in delivery fees...
sudo_grep ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:17:20 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Send them a prepayment minus the billing fee since you are paying in advance, you prevent the need to have a bill created in the first place.
FanchLaplanche ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:05:28 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
So it never stops?
Freekmagnet ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:16:45 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
My mortgage company charges me a $15 fee if I pay my bill online. Absurd; they charge $15 for me to give them their money immediately with no human involvement, but if I mail them a paper check that someone has to manually process and deposit it costs nothing.
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:48:30 on September 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Same here, except it's $3. They call it a "convenience fee". Also signing up for paperless billing they still charge you the $4.50 only now they call it an "electronic service fee"
Tychobrahe2020 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:48:29 on January 7, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Any time you see an "ftc" fee on a phone bill, it's not a tax, it just some bullshit companies are allowed to charge extra for and imply it's a tax.
NinjaFistOfPain ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:15:26 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Not pictured: Bill fee fee
MrBehnAm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:17:36 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I get billed for just having water... even if I don't use much water.
Which kinda pisses me off, because every month I get a "You are a 'Water-Wise' customer" meaning I don't use much water...
So, even though I only use $7 worth of water, my "service fee" for just having water to my house, is almost 3 times as much...
I understand having water hookup involves some level of having a meter reader come by, general maintenance and misc whatever for emergencies... but where is the incentive to actually conserve water when no matter how good you are a "water wise" consumer, your bill will still be much higher than what you actually use.
Just do a flat gallon per $ and increase the price per gallon. You'd be surprised how many people would be "water wise" when their bill is under $10 a month... but no, the water company needs to stay in business.... (or at least the executives who want a bonus).
boothin ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:34:13 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Imagine if everyone started using less water and they couldn't make enough money to maintain and fix the water mains... Assuming everyone has the same level of service it makes sense for that fee to be the same for everyone regardless of usage.
MrBehnAm ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:41:48 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Simply increase the $ per gallon. You are forgetting businesses that are also using water. It would average out.
boothin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:54:45 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Thing is, whether or not you use a lot of water, the maintenance costs the same. Say a main breaks, why does a business have to pay say 100x as much as you because they are a restaurant when it costs the same to fix as if a main were to break in front of your house?
Unenjoyed ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:31:52 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Somebody has to pay for the 5 to 10 seconds required to process your little $4.50 payment.
Service like that isn't fee, buster!
MolitovMichellex ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:52:36 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
In the UK we also get billed for paper bills, change to online billing if you can and that should take the charge off.
cawclot ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 19:04:07 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Then you get charged an 'online billing convenience fee'. I wish I was joking.
MolitovMichellex ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:23:02 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Oh wow really. Damn thats crap. no way to win with them is there, sorry then. If its any consolation, we get charge extra for not setting up a direct debt with people.
dan1101 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:01:43 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I used to have a Chase credit card, but they wanted $8 for an expedited withdraw from my bank account. Otherwise it took 3 or 4 days for them to withdraw the money that I just gave them permission to take.
I used to have a Chase credit card.
Denroll ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:31:50 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I had a Chase bank account as a secondary account. They started adding fees for "no activity," "maintenance," and some other bullshit; basically just stealing from my balance every month, up to $12 at a time. Calling to close my account was very satisfying. I've never dealt with any of that crap with a credit union.
dan1101 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:36:13 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
In my experience that is a common bank tactic, my credit union account does just that. They don't want to keep accounts in their system with no activity.
Warslvt ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:14:56 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Both my credit card and my car loan are through Chase.
I know that feel.
dan1101 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:26:07 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Are they still doing the expedited payment charge?
Warslvt ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:39:44 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
I haven't had a prompt for it recently, and it's usually ~16 hours until the money is pulled from my bank.
TheWarDrums ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:22:51 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Reminds me of the mailman from hellbenders.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:33:24 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They forgot to charge you the extra cost of adding that item to the list.
Debtastical ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:36:17 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Our water company doesn't do electronic billing. It's the only paper bill I have to send out. Why??
amarigatachi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:26:11 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Surely if you pay in advance they can't bill you for billing you...
kholto ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:48:25 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It makes some amount of sense, by having thousands of paying users you need a fair bit of extra administration at your company, it might be more fair to extract that money as a fee rather than just increasing the price of the product, especially if some people want to pay smaller amounts more often etc (increasing the amount of administration).
TheNakedKodiak ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:30:16 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Go paperless maybe?
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:09:39 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
As stated probably 20 times in this thread, I can switch to paperless, and then they charge me a $4.50 "electronic service fee". So literally the same thing with a different name.
They also charge a fee for paying with a credit/debit card.
No, I can't switch companies.
yParticle ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:44:08 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They literally can't do that if they want to keep accepting cards. Report them to your credit card company.
dadlookatme ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:09:05 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
ITT: People who have no idea how business administration works.
Loowigi ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:13:23 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You have to pay for water? That sounds infuriating!
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 05:08:32 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Not sure how this went over your head.
I'm not complaining about paying for water, I'm complaining about being charged for being billed, ya dingus.
akdigitalism ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:23:22 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Do you guys not realize modern technology automates billing?
Phobet ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:28:13 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They do this so they can tout how cheap their service is. So they can say that it costs X amount for water, while "failing" to mention the added cost of billing you and collecting payment. Sprint does the same thing with their "Spending Limit Program Charge". Basically, they have a fixed amount that you can owe on your account before they shut you off. And they charge your for providing the "service" of keeping track of it for you. And then there's the "Unlimited Plan Srv Chg", which to this day I still don't know what this is. Mostly because there is the "Unlimited Plan MRC", which I assume is the (M)onthly (R)ecuring (C)harge, that I understand to be the cost of the unlimited data service. So they can "truthfully"" state that their unlimited service only costs $50. But a lie by omission is still a lie. They all just blow chunks.
ur_boss000 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:36:07 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's probably because you're accepting paper bills.
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:38:14 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
As stated probably 20 times in this thread, I can switch to paperless, and then they charge me a $4.50 "electronic service fee". So literally the same thing with a different name.
They also charge a fee for paying with a credit/debit card.
No, I can't switch companies.
ur_boss000 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:42:13 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well fuck them!
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:03:31 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Mine did to for the first month, I called and bitched them out. What happens is the city will hire a company to handle the billing. It took about 20 minutes on the phone and talking to everyones supervisor but they agreed to stop charging me the fee.
IAmAUglyStupidFatGuy ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:03:05 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I got a bill for adding more services, I got a bill for paying them more money.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 20:56:56 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:23:28 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Uhh... where are you from that you don't pay for water services?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:42:42 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:45:23 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Real life is gonna suck for you
Swanksterino ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:24:06 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Canada, the infrastructure is paid for by taxes, cause the water belongs to all citizens, and they don't want you mucking around in the rivers and shit. When I moved to the states, i could not believe we paid for water.
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:50:28 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You still pay for it then, just not with a direct water bill.
Kind of like there are some states without sales tax, but then things like property tax is higher. Then you have people saying things like "well I rent, so this doesn't affect me." Wrong. Someone pays for the higher property tax, and it's gonna be reflected on your rent.
Swanksterino ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:26:21 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
But the infrastructure here was paid for by taxes. So we are double paying.
morganml ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 00:42:48 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
well, yeah, if you weren't a customer, they wouldn't incur the cost to bill you.....geez, this is simple shit man.
KeyserSOhItsTaken ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 20:12:49 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You don't read many bills do you? Almost all companies that offer paperless billing, will charge you if you opt for paper billing.
๐๏ธ Reality_Facade ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:19:23 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I have looked into it. There is a $4.50 fee for electronic services.
But thanks for the condescension.
Renegade_Meister ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 17:49:37 on September 16, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
do u even autopay bro?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:33:22 on September 17, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
do you even read comments bro?