Could he really not think of better examples than those?

Here, Elder Anderson, let me help you out:

• You notice that your friend has seem depressed lately, so you tell them you're available to listen if they need to talk.

• You notice that a member of your ward is struggling to pay rent, so you help guide them towards resources that can help.

• You notice a married couple struggling to make ends meet, so you offer to babysit for free.

• You notice a car broken down on the side of the road, so you stop to help and don't expect anything in return.

• You notice a roommate struggling with their homework in a subject you know well, so you offer some tutoring.

• You notice someone in your dorm seems lonely and is intentionally being left out of group activities, so you invite him over to play video games.

• You notice that a friend had a family member pass away out of town, so you offer to watch their pets for them while they attend the funeral.

• You notice your roommate was stood-up for a date, so you invite her to watch a movie and eat pizza with you.

• Etc, etc.

I would have thought that ministering would have more to do with feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and caring for those who are ill. Silly me.

We shouldn't be dishonest about small things. We should follow the example of TSCC and be dishonest about big things, duh.

Ministering= KGB secret police

Edit: KGB literally had committees called Council of Ministers

He forgot to mention monitoring your friends and roommates for any indication of any so-called same sex attractions.

Where does it stop?

You notice your neighbour has a new car and seems to be living a more comfortable lifestyle, you should check with your bishop that his tithing contributions also reflect a rise.

You see your bishop out for a jog on Sunday morning before church. You should contact the stake president and ask if this is a suitable sabbath day activity.

One of your classmates doesn’t speak up in church as much as he did before. You should tell the bishop that he needs a worthiness interview to ask what sin he is committing.

A friend of yours is looking well and is happier than you have seen them in a while. You should find out what prescription anti depressants they are misusing. Tell them to stop and that all the happiness they need can be found in the gospel.

... I could keep this game up all day. Next level 1984 craziness.

-Ric :D

"You notice your friend ceases to give fucks, or shits, and would rather enjoy a Sunday outdoors than in a boring assed sunday school lesson. Take that opportunity to engage in a very awkward, condescending conversation. You won't convince him of anything, but at least you'll feel warm fuzzies for having done the will of the prophet."

This is Anderson's failed attempt to apply ministering to a BYU setting. I applaud that he attempts to cater the message. However, it would be much better if he focused on the needs/well being of the individual rather than the individual's outward expression of obedience.

Anderson misses the mark on what ministering is.

You have a friend with a beam in his own eye who, after a devotional, becomes super critical and vocally judgmental of everything you say or do and can't seem to mind his own damn business.

Holy shit am I glad I don’t live in East Germany I mean Utah. This sounds like the Stasi

Monitoring Program, I knew it from the start. Women will be further oppressed as well.

Yep - this is somewhat like I envisioned when they bragged about it at GC, only I was thinking of the Family Ward Version, not the YSA Dorm Duties. The version here is even worse than I'd have imagined, because people will begin watching for others to be "disengaged" in religion classes?

It's all about spying, and those who are not spying enough or reporting fully will be lectured by their bishops, because of course someone above the bishops will want the reports and the numbers.

Oh - I love the part about a friend being dishonest in "small" things. I guess they'll be counseled to follow the cult leaders and be dishonest in BIG things, like raping women or using tithing for commercial endeavors.

Fuck this shit.

This isn't ministering, it's monitoring.

I see God nowhere in this. To be fair though you have to consider the context. He was talking to BYU students right? This is how things have always been at BYU and, Yes, I believe BYU has always been in full cult mode.

I will now "minister to the LDS church"

• I notice that the leaders claim they are not paid, so I leak the paystubs to the press
• I notice that they are trying to silence sexually abused members so I leak their taped recordings to the press
• I notice that the leaders have receipts at brothels in New Zealand, so I mention it on podcasts
• I notice my local bishop is willing to interview my children against my wishes in secret, so I call the police and press charges for pedophilia.

I am a minister!

These sound like quotes from Chairman Anderson's Little Red Book.

Ministering = let's step up the tattle-tale culture, y'all. We're not keeping enough control over the flock.

This is some disturbing Orwellian stuff. It’s about 100% surveillance and informing.

BYU is the ultimate snitching culture. Cults use this tactic to keep its members in line.

...were any of those examples of going and doing pure Good, or are they all examples of finding fault in others?

Sounds like they’re having trouble defining what it is. His whole list is a jumbled assortment of reasons these guys think people go inactive. There’s no action or guidance on what to do. Without some good direction, everyone will just turn to what they know, home and visiting teaching. That’ll mean they’ll be doing nothing again. I give it 2 months before everyone gives up on this (if it hasn’t already happened).

Is there a recording of this?

You notice that someone who once seemed to love to talk about the Book of Mormon now never mentions it.

If you want to talk Book of Mormon with me, so be it. I'll gladly point out how racist its teachings are. Before long, the TBM won't want to talk about it anymore.

What a missed opportunity to talk about showing empathy and support in the face of normal human problems. The ones that should matter to everyone, and have nothing to do with obedience to the church:

• You notice that your roommate just went through a rough breakup and needs someone to talk to
• Your friend shares their story of abuse
• You have a family member that mentions suicide, and you aren't sure how seriously to take it
• You meet someone who left a country ravaged by war, and is trying to make a new life in your town

And so on.

So essentially what this says is that ministering is tattling or butting in where it's none of your business. So instead of calling it ministering let's call it what it is "Tattling."

Ex-JW here. I have a correction for your title:

my testimony is that the Church has left Christ and has gone into full cult mode.

My dear ex-cult brethren, religions all start in "full cult mode." Centuries can soften them up and turn them a bit mainstream, but "full cult mode" is the default starting position for all organized religion.

Why did I immediately think of the hitler youth?

As a recovering addict, there's only one thing on this list that warrants bringing up to a friend.

You see prescription drugs that you know are not being used properly.

The rest is utter bullshit.

I really don’t understand this list. Does he suggest what a minister is supposed to do when he notices a friend being casual about wearing garments? Does he suggest that you need to go and do a garment check? Is that ministering? Do you go say, “hey, I’m worried about your underwear choices”? Is that ministering?

Elder Anderson has always been in full cult mode.

I started reading this thinking "it can't be that bad".

I finished reading it thinking, "all hail the panopticon"

But what are you supposed to do should you notice these things? Are we reporting them? I didnt watch the devotional, I'm curious what the purpose/role TBMs play now

What the actual fuck.

So...tattling at BYU. Nothing new there.

The talk is BYU centered I'm presuming. Was there inference in this being the behavior they expect in all church contexts? ETA: I now see the links. I'll listen at some point later today.

It sounds like the honor code on steroids with the expectation of ratting out those around you.

toxic, toxic toxic.

My spouse and I are monitoring the situation regarding how our ward implements ministering. They only recently started leaving us alone after harassing us for over two years. I've been ready to resign for a long time, but my spouse isn't ready and I feel strongly that we should do it as a family. I almost wouldn't mind a full court press at this point. It might finally be the thing to push my spouse off the fence.

I take heart that while the Q15 have cultist designs for it, members are highly likely to just use it as an excuse to do nothing.

I can not see any good coming out of this. I believe this is going to backfire. Even the most staunch TBM will catch on soon that this is monitoring, not ministering.

What are they supposed to do with this? Like for real? Report it? Or call them out on it?

So, in order to minister correctly you have to be that person that everybody hates. Got it.

Elder Josef V. Stalin:

“You have a comrade who doesn’t appear to celebrate the communist manifesto as they once did.”

CONFORMCONFORMCONFORMCONFORMCONFORMCONFORMCONFORMCONFORMCONFORMCONFORMCONFORMCONFORMCONFORMCONFORMCONFORMCONFORMCONFORMCONFORMCONFORMCONFORMCONFORM Isn't Anderson the wanker who wanted us to brain wash ourselves with audio recordings of the JS story? That one just bleeeeeeeeewwwww me away.

This is weird. With all the examples he gave, those are equivalent to tracking a person’s EVERY move. He’s saying a normal person has to be 100% interested and tied with the church and behave SUPER-ULTRA-ALPHA-OMEGA TBM. If you see one person acting differently even the slightest bit, then you have to jump in and help and administer them because even the slightest things can shake their testimony.

WTF.

Yes, full cult mode.

What did this guy say people were supposed to do when they noticed any of these things?

I remember when I was at Ricks that they preached hard about being your "brother's keeper". This has taken that up a notch or two. Wow.

So in other words, Mormons are called to be the world’s busybodies. What a wonderful contribution to humanity./s

I actually was doubtful of this at first, then I looked up the talk and listened and realized this was word for word. Here are some other examples from the talk.

"You smell alcohol or marijuana in a friends car"

"Your friends are spending enormous time taking and posting pictures of themselves that move to the edge of immodesty."

"you know someone who had a light in his/her eyes returning from a mission, but now that light has faded"

Then he asks if names come to mind after giving these examples.

"How to lose friends and alienate people: Why Orwell still matters"

This makes me so goddamn mad for all the believers who will heed this shit and become even MORE obsessed with outer appearances and behaviors.

Forget ‘ministering’ (those fools make a mockery of the word), how about being a sentient, compassionate person, and get to know what that person (they think they need to fix) is on the inside...be deep and see their deep.

The ‘churches’ idiocy still has the ability to get to me, because real humans suffer for it. Bastards.

“You notice that you’ve become highly judgmental of even the tiniest of personal differences.”

The ministering program is the new Nazi secret police?

"You see prescription drugs you know are not being used properly."

Because your freshman ass is now a doctor? How do you define when you "know" a prescription written for that person is not being "used properly"? Does a side effect from the "proper use" of a prescription, such as sleepiness during church or institute, qualify as the drug being "used improperly" in the eyes of the church? Does that make all prescription drugs suspect now? Are you less righteous if you have a prescription of any kind?

"You have a returned missionary roommate who has become very casual in wearing clothing that reflects temple covenants."

What is the definition of "very casual in wearing clothing that reflects temple covenants"? Does that mean wearing garments "too casually"? Or wearing clothing over garments too casually? Is purchasing casual clothing now against church doctrine? He didn't say this has to do with immodest clothing - because that's like duh, obvious to every TBM - but this "casually wearing clothing that reflects temple covenants" is new doctrine. Does this mean you can't sleep in just your garments? Do we need church approved modest pajamas to cover our garments completely for sleeping? Are people lounging in their temple clothing at home and this is too casual a use for your grass skirts and baker's hats?

"You have a friend who jokes about sacred things."

What is too sacred to not joke about? What is too sacred to not talk about? What does the symptom of "joking about sacred things" hint is below the surface? Who decides what is to be defined as sacred? What if something is qualified as secret - can it be joked about?

There are dozens of genuine issues with the ideas presented here. This is shocking. I need to listen to the whole thing myself.

[deleted]

“There is a unique and supernal gift of ministering that can come from someone who loves God with all his or her heart, who is settled, grounded, steadfast and immovable in his or her faith in Jesus Christ and in the restored gospel and keeps the commandments with exactness,”

Setting people up for Toxic Perfectionism.

Any good person can be a good minister, but only a disciple of Christ can be a good faith minister.

(Setting the stage for a "No True Scotsman" fallacy) So, there are "good ministers" and there are "good faith ministers"?

"Eventually this holier way of ministering requires opening your heart and your faith,...."

Elder Andersen said this is not self-righteous, but spiritually courageous.

No, I'm pretty sure it's self righteous.

However, to be able to minister to a friend the Holy Ghost will need to guide. This means making time away from unnecessary technology so as to let the mind and heart hear the Spirit’s subtle promptings.

Again with the suggestion that being on the internet= less Holy Ghost for you. Grrrr!!! This is how they scare people away from researching church history.

The East Germans had an organization that ran this sort of operation. It was called the Stasi.

Hey Elder Anderson, how about you give them a break?

You know, like when you told us to give Brother Joseph a break?

You see prescription drugs that you know are not being used properly.

Ah, yes, and of course such a minister will always be qualified to decided who's using their prescriptions properly or improperly. Let's say one day you're bored enough to read through the text on your friend's bottle of Adderal and notice that the active ingredient is "amphetamine salts". HEAVENS TO BETSY! They're hooked on amphetamines and bath salts??? Thank heavens for the Spirit to prompt me to flush them all down the toilet when they're not looking!

BYU should be for only education, not mate seeking for tscc speed breeding program.

It reminds me of some of the accounts of early Utah I have read in journals. It used to be that home teachers would be sent out to peoples homes to investigate accusations of sinful behavior. Then report back about the family's attitude and if there was need for further church actions to insure repentance. Ubercult

I listened to Anderson's speaking portion of the devotional, just to do my intellectual due diligence. It is so much worse than what the BYU news site presented.

Recording is here: https://www.byutv.org/player/0217e320-1a69-41fb-a1a7-081fb460d4bd/byu-devotional-address-neil-l-andersen-41018?listid=ca6d9b25-eb7c-44ce-8044-e596c36ae0e6&listindex=0&q=devotional

First, there are some bullet points missing that I'll add:

• Your friends are spending enormous amounts of time taking and posting pictures of themselves that move to the edge of immodesty.

• You notice that a friend who once seemed to love to go to the temple now is not going.

• You know a person who had light in his or her eyes returning from a mission but now the light seems to have faded.

• You see a friend's faith being affected by compromised worthiness and his need to repent.

Anderson continues: "Can you envision these situations or others like them? Have specific names come into your mind? The Apostle Paul said (reads Ephesians 6:12) "We wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." He goes on to tell a story that hints that repeated badgering of people is needed.

This devotional is dangerous if any soul takes it to be "the words of a prophet" that they must do. It is the most glaring example of the doctrines of men mingled with scripture that I have ever seen.

That man really needs an intellectual butt whooping. His talks always seem to me that no one has ever challenged anything he has said before.

Snitching

Why the fuck anyone would willingly submit themselves to the bullshit that is BYU is beyond me :\

So basically, full on Stasi/KGB mode. Spectacular.

Could one make a case that a person's civil liberties are being violated when subjected to this kind of treatment/environment? It seems to me that the mental gymnastics that enables TBMs to say "I used my agency to give up my agency in favor of BYU's rules/HF's Plan" would not hold up in court when TSCC tries to explain how freedom of religion, expression, and privacy are relinquished when having chosen one religion as your own.

(waves hand) This is not the church you're looking for.

Admittedly, I was somewhat excited when they disbanded HT; however, this is some major cult bull shit. It's the worst of BYU-I and MTC Quiet Reverence. He couches member's observation of others as being "spiritual courageous". Excuse me, Mr. Cook, I don't think you or TSCC has the slightest authority to opine on what being spiritually courageous is. Fuck. This.

They’ve piloted this for years at BYU-I. It’s been such a success they’re rolling it to chain.

This looks more like spying and prying than ministering.

Nope. Eight AP’s at ONE TIME. And so I am going to out myself because this was in the Illinois Chicago Mission. Just one. Not North or South. So no mission reunion invites for me. Our mission President just put it out there, “If it’s important for you and your family to be an AP, come and talk to me. Apparently that was the most important reason to go on a mission. So two AP’s for the “office.” Two over the ZL’s, two over the DL’s and two Sisters over the sisters. I have to give it to him for being progressive. Still it was ridiculous! Now more people thinking they had “authority” over everyone. The grooming of power!

[deleted]

The older I get, the more the whole concept of "honesty" is just an easy way for the powers that be to keep us in line while they fuck us over any way possible.

Oh honey if I start to get ministered to I have no problem completely burning bridges with trash ass friends that think this shit is ok

This Just In: LDS Church to issue Monitoring cough, cough I mean Ministering Leg Bracelets to asset members wink, wink minister to their fellow ward members and help them keep track of their activities and where about's. Bluetooth sensors in the bracelets will also be able to detect online activity, church attendance, temple activity, changes in attitudes towards the brethren, laughing at jokes about sacred things or disinterest in church related things. It will also send a warm fuzzy feeling up each members leg when they come in close proximity with other members, thus heightening the joy's of monitoring, I mean ministering their fellow members.

I really don't want to check to see if my roommate is wearing his/her temple underwear formally enough, thank you very much.

Sounds like a babysitting program.

I think they have to re-name it again from "ministering" to "every member a Gladys Kravitz".

So the church wants there own version of the Stasi. Great.

Nonconsensual righteousness.

Yes! Judge those RMs for not wearing their garments! Spy on everyone and look if you can see their magic underwear!

JudgeOthersMuch?

this is terrible...

I don't understand, I notice all kinds of stuff but I don't care. Are they saying to report them to the bishop or something?

Holy shit. The new thought police. Although in reality this is 200 years old Mormon practice- same shit, different packaging

You have a returned missionary roommate who has become very casual in wearing clothing that reflects temple covenants.

I don't recall a temple covenant that deals with what clothes are to be worn.

tattling.

Sounds a lot like Big Brother to me...

How about "You see a need and do something kind to benefit the other person"?

This is sick

Sounds like Elder Anderson had a little to much of the "Honor Code" on his mind.

"Every Member a Missionary" to "Every Member a Judge and Jury"

This message is not going anywhere. It's just another cry fest by leadership. Home Teaching never worked yet it was inspired? Ministering is another attempt to fix what is broken. My TBM wife told me its the same as HT/VT but without the accounting. No monthly reporting. It's an attempt to encourage any kind of contact.

This is so.... “my neighbor is a communist.” Did he mention anything about reporting back on these things (as opposed to just “looking out” for others and talking to those people)?

This from the same guy who counseled us to "Give Brother Joseph a Break".....well, I don't think I'm inclined to listen to any more nonsense from this knucklehead!

It's like he came up some rules to mimic what a modern-day Pharisee would look like and just went with that. Zero teachings about love, tolerance, or anything that's even remotely about forgiveness or Christ-like.

Watching your language and spying on your friends, fucking really?

What I get from this is that the brethren are losing control of members, especially youth, and they are taking aggressive measures to turn this around. I think this will only backfire, causing even more people to leave. There are many who will obey no matter what, but more and more who see through the bullshit.

That is full on CULT shit. The BoM doesn't come up in conversation? Evil.

Long story short, Micromanage your friends into inactivity!!

alternatives:

basic idea - don't make it all related to conforming or sin or whatever - be a decent human being and care about another person for genuine reasons other than how it relates back to the church.

You notice that a roommate spends an inordinate amount of time playing games on an iPhone but rarely engages in conversations relating to gospel topics. (try talking to them and relating to them as another human being - discuss life)

You are in a conversation with friends and notice that the language being used is edgy and inappropriate. (don't take offense to the language being used, think about what is actually being discussed and engage rather than focus on the "edginess" of the content.)

You see prescription drugs that you know are not being used properly. (be concerned but also respectful - be a friend)

You notice that someone who once seemed to love to talk about the Book of Mormon now never mentions it. (don't bring up the fact that they don't mention the book of mormon, talk to them, connect with them, be a friend.)

You notice a friend who once spoke with faith about the prophet’s counsel, now speaks critically. (discuss why they think the way they think - expand your horizons - talk openly about topics that are hard.)

You have a returned missionary roommate who has become very casual in wearing clothing that reflects temple covenants. (supposedly this is a very personal thing, so maybe...mind your own business? )

You notice a friend who finds reasons to go places on Sunday other than your ward. (go with them, be their friend)

You have a sense that a friend has started to be dishonest in small things. (don't trust them lol)

You have a classmate that began the semester very engaged in your religion class but now seems disinterested and disengaged.

You have a friend who jokes about sacred things.

You have a friend who came to BYU with the expectation of finding an eternal companion and hasn’t. The discouragement with dating has moved to “God doesn’t love me.” (explain that it's not just God that doesn't love them...Jk be a friend.)

wow, that's some crazy shit

Scientology 101

This is fantastic because if we lay the groundwork for the "Umbridge-ing" of the church now, it will save a lot of time for (the eventual) reign of President Bednar. :)

Some will be oppressed. But let's hope, most will see this as bullshit and be pushed farther out.

"Ministerial Snitching"

These are great reason to not let mormons into your home. They're probably there to do a scan and report.

fuck full cult mode

this is so fucking judgy! They should call it judgering...I should trademark that...ugh

Ew. BYU's assholery now extends to all Members of the church.

Big brother is watching.

The LDS Church is now officially the “biggest little bitch snitch” on the planet..

Practically ALL of these have to do with monitoring how strong someone's testimony is. #noroomfordoubt

"...very casual in wearing clothing that reflects temple covenants."

"Josh, I can see the skidmarks on your garments--I'm ministering you to put some pants on!"

Noticing that stuff is now "ministering?" How so?

By the way, the reference for avoiding the scriptures is my dictator stake president.

Setting aside the hyperbole, it should be pointed out that none of those examples involve a person actually doing anything.

Meaning, for example, that just "having a friend who jokes about sacred things" isn't an example of "ministering." It's implied that the "ministering" part of the equation would be talking to the friend or encouraging some sort of course correction, but it's not actually stated.

Maybe a new calling in wards soon? Inquisitor

I didn't expect the Mormon (errr Spanish) Inquisition....

Maybe they should just go full China and create a social credit score based on activity in the church, callings, home/visiting teaching (ministering), tithing paid, family involvement, social media activity, etc. Maybe it already exists in Salt Lake.

You notice that someone who once seemed to love to talk about the Book of Mormon now never mentions it.

You know, like Joseph Smith did in most of his sermons.

Allow me to sum this up, seeing anyone exhibiting independent thoughts and actions is clearly someone in need of "ministering". Bottom line, TSCC is in a much better position to dictate how members should live their lives, this is not cult mode; rather, it is doctrine....../S

How do members not see this for what it is????

Because you're seeing this for more than what it is. Take a second and attempt to absorb this from a member's perspective.

Seriously, thought police much?

You notice a friend who finds reasons to go places on Sunday other than your ward.

HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!!!

Now you can't even go ANYWHERE but to your ward and back on sunday. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK IS THIS MAN SMOKING AND WHY ISN"T HE SHARING IT WITH THE REST OF THE MEMBERS!

Visiting your parents on sunday is now a sin apparently. Or other family. Or the sick. Just your ward and nothing else.

Ok, you notice these things then what? Did he say what to do about them when you do notice them?

I had to go and Get the full context.
TL;DR As byu students, you have a higher calling to spy on your fellow students and remind then to have faith and be obedient.

From the recording:

There are many wonderful kind people all over the world and we can learn from them. HOWEVER, unique to a converted member of TCJCLDS, is another kind of ministering. At BYU you have the opportunity as the disciples of the Savior to minister in a way that helps keep a friends faith from faltering; that reminds a roommate in a kind way that reading the BOM everyday really does bring miracles; that the standards of the church are not just a set of rules, but keep us closer to God, and bring us happiness.

A person with a good heart can help someone fix a tire, take a roommate to the doctor, have lunch with someone who is sad, or smile and say hello to brighten a day. But a follower of the first commandment will naturally add to these important acts of service encouraging the person doing well in keeping the commandments, and sharing wise counsel to strengthen the faith of someone who is slipping or who needs help in moving back onto the path he once traveled.

At BYU you are surrounded by believers who are in various stages of belief and testimony. I challenge you to strengthen your efforts to spiritually minister to one another. To minister spiritually can begin with baking cookies or playing a basketball game, but eventually this holier way of ministering requires opening your heart and your faith taking courage in encouraging the positive growth you are seeing in a friend or in exressing concerns about things you see and feel that are not consistent with discipleship. Let us not be self righteous but let us be spiritually courageous in ministering in a holier way, specifically strengthening the faith of others. To Stir your thinking consider these possible situations:

LIST HERE GOES HERE OF STUPID SPY SHIT

Can you envision these situations or others like them? Have specific names come into your mind? Quotes Ephesians 6:12 The greatest need at BYU as anywhere else in the world, is more faith in Heavenly Father and in his Son jesus christ and a greater willingness to follow the commandments

sooo...it's basically the Department of War program from the 40's and we are hunting for commies....

So Ministering=Spying basically... I'd rather have the home teaching.

What kind of person would joke about sacred things?

God will not be mocked.

I thought your title was ex-Mormon overreacting, but then I read what he actually said. It's bad enough that those things would be included in the list let alone be the entirety of the list. Just wow.

The LDS Church is becoming more transparent by the day.

Heard inklings of Gestapo behavior- when heard Church was counting quarterly interviews w/members who visit, instead of actual visits w/ members. More talk/gossip and less action/visits. New ministering program will be eyes and ears of church leadership. Sorry, door stops are all they’ll get at our house. 🚪 🛑

that.cant.be.real.
Though i know it is. sighs

So scrutinize and judge the Mormons around you so they stay in the cult? Why not compassion and charity?

I know so many people in the church who are SO READY to hop on board this stuff.

Emma Smith did not stay why would you lol

They might as well start reading dianetics and wearing blue shirts

"you have to administer again and again"

If you are a good Mormon, you need to talk about the Book of Mormon all the time.

I can hear this whack jobs voice saying each of these statements.

…So what solutions is he offering for these "problems"? 🤔

Seems to me like ministering is more for locking people up than helping them out.

WTFFF?

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/neil-l-andersen_a-holier-approach-to-ministering/

I do like the one about prescription drug abuse. So many people turn a blind eye to the abuse that is happening in their own homes. I hope this saves lives. My expectations are low.

Is checking for porn shoulders considered ministering?

Sounds like how JW's are going to. Less Jesus mention. More Governing Body.

I was under the previous assumption that the ministering program was just the same visiting teaching/home teaching program but instead of doing so in person, one could text or phone it in. This is so much worse. The cult has almost fully become the church of scientology.

It will be a spiritual feast , we can sing hymns

[deleted]

Ministering=surveillance

Awesome. The LDS Church now has their Hitler Youth Army.

He's a nosy fucker isn't he?

What did he say about responding to these situations?

Wow this is awesome. So basically Mormons get to do what they normally do anyway, except now they can see they are meeting their Ministering requirements, and don't have to report home teaching stats anymore?

This is a sweet deal.

Remember, this list is courtesy of Neil "give brother Joseph a break" Andersen.

• You notice that your prophet spends an inordinate amount of time with your wife.

How about picking up litter at the local playground or collecting canned food for an abuse shelter? Policing friends and family doesn’t sound much like ministering to me..!!

More points on which to judge others!

I'm not sure I have anything to add that hasn't already been said, but God damn I'm glad I'm out.

I've got 99 problems but a bitch/asshole at BYU narcing on me to the bishop for not always talking about or reading about the church, or playing games on the phone instead of attending the temple, or whatever ain't one of them.

If you see something...say something.

Is there a transcript or recording of this somewhere? This is incredible. Every last one of those things is a "judgement" not an effort to "minister." -- and maybe your friend who doesn't talk about the BoM does so because he doesn't want to upset you when he states that it was pulled out of a rock in a hat!?!

You see prescription drugs that you know are not being used properly.

What's wrong with that? You want your roommates to become a part of the opioid crisis without you saying anything or helping to prevent it? I swear this sub loves to throw all the babies out with all the bathwaters.

Hey Anderson, I got your ministering right here grabs crotch. Minister THIS!

You have a returned missionary roommate who has become very casual in wearing clothing that reflects temple covenants.

What?

Band-aids trying to heal a mortal wound.

How do members not see this for what it is?

Ratting on your friends is presented as "being my brother's keeper" and "going after the lost sheep"

Never mind that the "help" you offer in the above scriptures is wanted, where as ratting people out is at best "non-consensual ministering".

But hey, who'd expect a religion founded by a serial predator to be big on consent.

Edgy, huh?

The things in that list are not "ministering". They are just things you might observe. Does he say what you should do in response? That would be the "ministering" part.

It might be just me but if you ever try to use religion to help or explain any action I’ve taken, I will 100 percent stop any contact with you.

Initiate Anti-Christian Spy Program

...

Phase 1 - Increase shame and humiliation over things that are insignificant because we can't afford to let people live with agency. They're too stupid to get to heaven on their own. Corrections must be constant. Reminders of inadequacy everpresent. Never forget that we fearless leaders are beacons of light that must be followed in their pursuit to perfection. We humble leaders are not perfect, but we're chosen and are far better than they will ever be.

Mormon Gestepo? Mormon Mutawi'? Not far off, imo - all are associated with oppressive regimes. Puritans come to mind as well.

Geeze, is this really it? Relief society was judgemental enough eithout being given an officially sanctioned "be your brother's keeper"... though to be fair, the org started out as just that so they've kind of gone full circle.

Judging judge judge judge!

I've already got my speech ready. "Oh, so you're here to minister. It's my understanding that you've been assigned to my family and will be required to report on our visits during a quarterly interview. Neither me nor my family are interested in being reported on, so no thank you."

Bottomline-Andersen talks about ‘encouraging the positive growth you are seeing in a friend’ while ministering but NONE of the 11 examples he gives are encouraging positive++ behavior!

Will try to valiantly be a ‘Good minister’!They’re my favorite!! They bring cookies 🍪 & give cheery service! Any good person can be a good minister.’ Guess that’s me!

‘Good FAITH ministers’, seeking to follow the way of the 1st commandment (or 3rd Reich)/holier (than thou) way- are an entirely new breed as distinguished in the talk. They now have marching orders to be on the lookout for red flag/sinful activities depicted in the myriad of examples given. Rest assured, they’ll be ready to report their findings in their quarterly EQ/ RS required, face to face preferred, interviews. Uh, Not for me.

Wow that list reminds me of something Bednar would do SUPER cuLTY! IF BEDNAR COULD BE A CULT LEADER HE WOULD

Brother Soandso, Ive noticed that you lied about X Y and Z. Even though these are small, I call you unto repentance and to seek the Lords guidance.

Yeah fucking right.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/319192692333522794/

.. Have a sense that a church has started (since inception) to be dishonest in GINORMOUS things!

Who do we report it to? The church??! We want our ill-gotten fraudulently obtained money back! LDS corporate lied!!

Well our religion loves agnostic atheist leaning people. We love you. We love homosexual people. We love catholic people. we just don’t agree with their choices/ beliefs. Your beliefs are yours and ours are ours. We would stand up for someone being denied an apartment because they are homosexual. We don’t agree with some of their beliefs. But that does not mean they should be denied an apartment. I’m not going to be running away covering. My ears I was just curious why you think what you think.

The prescription drug one is a fair point, but the rest of this just, ugh.

Any links to text of the talk?

You are in a conversation with friends and notice that the language being used is edgy and inappropriate.

Ow the edge!

shit, did TSCC convert to Scientology?

Where is the full speech?!?!?!?

Perhaps this has been addressed and I missed it?

I just looked up his talk on BYU’s website and It’s only showing video highlights with no text.

Another one down the rabbit hole?

I have to find the full speech and share it with my wife. #crackingshelf

TIA!

Here's the complete list of examples Elder Anderson gave of ministering:

O. My. Gosh.

LDS Cult is full blown full of shit! Smell that it's a lucifierian masonic inspired cult for money

I thought that these examples were pretty bad.

But then, I went and read a report of the talk and saw that there was a little more context to this.

It still sounds kind of cultish, but not nearly as bad as this sounds out of context.

http://universe.byu.edu/2018/04/11/elder-andersen-minister-in-a-holier-way/

So wait. Let me get this straight. You are an “Exmormon” and you watched conference? You must know that it’s true enough to at least watch right? I mean did someone at church offend you and now you’re a protester. Why don’t you just go with the good feeling and good morals and stick with it? Why do you have to hate a certain religion? You do you. We do us. Right?