After a 45 minute discussion with Mormon missionaries you are pushed to commit to baptism. But if you want to leave...

levelheadedsteve · 93 points · Posted at 21:42:09 on October 18, 2017 · (Permalink)

The BIGGEST example of goal-post moving in Mormonism is when trying to leave TSCC amicably. It won't happen if leadership is involved, most of the time.

Here are some great questions you may be asked when you try and justify wanting to leave to a leader in TSCC:

Did you pray about it?
Do you pray every night?
Do you read the scriptures every night?
Do you have family home evening every night?
Do you magnify your calling?
Do you attend all three hours of church every week?
Did you pay close attention for all three hours?
Did you write down all potential promptings you received during those three hours of attentive listening every week?
Do you have a temple recommend?
Do you attend the temple weekly?
Do you really think you can leave before you've started to regularly work at the temple?
Do you look at pornography?
Do you doubt your doubts?
Do you avoid anti-Mormon materials?
If you claim to understand the issues, how come we have so many smart people in the church who still believe?
Do you claim to know more than the church historians?
Do you claim to know more than the general authorities?
Do you support the living prophet and apostles in everything they teach?
Are you gay?
Are you really willing to risk losing your family for eternity because of some silly doubts?

Okay, I'll stop...

[deleted] · 36 points · Posted at 00:26:08 on October 19, 2017 · (Permalink)

“Lose your family” after I joined the military (at 18, married, and with a kid on the way.... I wasn’t the example my parents wanted) my TBM wife still believed. So for a year I fuckin pushed through and honestly tried my best to believe. All because she made a dumb little comment a month after we got married: “I’d rather get a divorce than leave the church” absolutely devastating and made me feel like my life had been taken hostage by a god damn scam I had just learned to hate, and compounded by having my son. That “lose your family” comment is the most disgusting thing I can imagine.

On the bright side, my wife is slowly but surely falling away from the cult, been married 3 years with no problems and a bright future. She also apologized a bunch of times for that little divorce sleight.

levelheadedsteve · 7 points · Posted at 05:01:28 on October 19, 2017 · (Permalink)

Glad to hear things are working out. So many people aren't so lucky!

My wife is... eh... she's basically, for lack of a better way to describe it, much like many of the Catholic people I met on my mission. They don't follow all the rules (only the big ones), they don't care if they miss church, they get fed up with some of the crap their religion says or does. But the second someone attempts to claim that their religion is incorrect they go into defensive mode, because it's more than a religion, it's their HERITAGE.

My wife is like that. She cares that it is something she was raised with and feels connected to. That it is something she has in common with her family. With our community. She cares about some of the promises (having a family FOREVER), but mostly she doesn't really care about the details. Until someone guilts her about something, at least.

[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 12:31:33 on October 19, 2017 · (Permalink)

That’s the point my wife is at as well. The “having a family forever” and the connection to her family is all she really cares about. Which I can understand. I still struggle with that from time to time, and I hate the church. It’s not easy to dump something that has been engrained into every facet of your life and being.

thebestatheist · 2 points · Posted at 15:54:11 on October 19, 2017 · (Permalink)

Ask her "What if it's not real? What if we are wasting all this time arguing and struggling and fighting when all we know for sure is we have whats right here, right now? I believe that if there's a god, and he loves us, he will forgive us. I want to find a way past this because I want this life to be the best it can be. And for me, that doesn't involve the church."

If you say something like that compassionately, I believe you'll have a great chance at an honest, objective discussion.

[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 16:30:06 on October 19, 2017 · (Permalink)

Look at you! Putting my jumbled thoughts into a coherent comment. Not sarcastic btw. I seriously couldn’t come up with a way to say that without it sounding or could be construed as hostile. Spank you good sir.

q-man-bott · 6 points · Posted at 01:44:20 on October 19, 2017 · (Permalink)

Worst than breaking up with a clingy girlfriend

levelheadedsteve · 6 points · Posted at 04:56:34 on October 19, 2017 · (Permalink)

So sad how much they can't just show understanding and just let people move on.

It's the biggest reason I really don't care to involve church leadership when I finally depart. I don't care what they have to say, anyway.

Serotogenesis · 7 points · Posted at 04:43:22 on October 19, 2017 · (Permalink)

And even if you have all of "their" right answers to these, the answer is still "nah."

levelheadedsteve · 2 points · Posted at 04:55:19 on October 19, 2017 · (Permalink)

Yeah :\

thebestatheist · 5 points · Posted at 15:47:10 on October 19, 2017 · (Permalink)

What ultimately convinced me to be done with the LDS Church was the "lose your family" bit.

Any god I believed in wouldn't allow me to be separated from my family. I no longer believe in god, and if he is anything like the Mormon god, he can go fuck right off.

levelheadedsteve · 2 points · Posted at 16:39:51 on October 19, 2017 · (Permalink)

Right, this is a big thing to me.

Personally, I don't really believe in god anymore, either. And if he does exist, and he's as loving and cool as everyone says, I'm sure he'll understand where I'm coming from with the whole faith thing.

Pretty much 100% certain at this point that Mormon god is impossible, so I'm not worried about it.

[deleted] · 5 points · Posted at 16:36:20 on October 19, 2017 · (Permalink)

[deleted]

levelheadedsteve · 2 points · Posted at 16:40:01 on October 19, 2017 · (Permalink)

Yes, exactly.

LegalisticMormonGod · 2 points · Posted at 18:12:56 on October 19, 2017 · (Permalink)

Are you gay?

A six word response.

darkwindhorse · 22 points · Posted at 21:33:19 on October 18, 2017 · (Permalink)

I'd just love invite them in, and every time they teach a new concept, pull out the CES Letter and read them what it says about that and ask them to explain it. By the time the discussions are done, you'll have two new non-mormon converts.

Korzag · 19 points · Posted at 21:43:53 on October 18, 2017 · (Permalink)

Assuming they didn't give you something like:

Brother/Sister /r/darkwindhorse, we have been praying and felt like the Spirit has told us to spend more time with our other investigators.

I think most missionaries will cut it off after their investigators start getting too counter-pushy.

[deleted] · 30 points · Posted at 01:08:17 on October 19, 2017 · (Permalink)

[deleted]

GodRobber · 13 points · Posted at 01:45:47 on October 19, 2017 · (Permalink)

THIS!! OMG this. And if I had a job/money, I'd award you GOLD! Thank you /u/throwmybeer!

Zadok_The_Priest · 13 points · Posted at 21:50:17 on October 18, 2017 · (Permalink)

You only have to stick with Mormonism if you'll commit to pay tithing, clean toilets, give up hours attending brainwashing meetings, and make lots of little baby mormons. If you're gay, drink coffee, or a Democrat, we don't really want you.

[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 16:32:56 on October 19, 2017 · (Permalink)

[deleted]

mofriend · 2 points · Posted at 18:57:37 on October 19, 2017 · (Permalink)

You're probs on the conservative side of libertarianism then.

VicePrincipalNero · 10 points · Posted at 02:10:18 on October 19, 2017 · (Permalink)

Welcome to the Hotel California.

no-bs97 · 3 points · Posted at 04:45:55 on October 19, 2017 · (Permalink)

Ugh. That's it.

GodRobber · 4 points · Posted at 01:52:24 on October 19, 2017 · (Permalink)

...seriously. It really pisses me off how TSCC goes after the poor & needy to gorge their baptismal numbers.

AnotherClosetAtheist · 3 points · Posted at 06:09:52 on October 19, 2017 · (Permalink)

Holy shit this is gold.

No proof required for entry, 100% proof to exit.

LabansWidow · 3 points · Posted at 08:16:14 on October 19, 2017 · (Permalink)

Only 100%? You're setting a low bar...