๐๏ธ parrot6632 ยท 646 points ยท Posted at 12:34:42 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It sucks and most of the time the teacher talks in circles but here are a few key moments i'm proud of
Teacher: The most printed book in the world is the bible with over 5 billion copies and the second most printed book is the book of mormon
Me: Actually the book of mormon is the 8th most printed book in the world. the book of muslim prayer (that i can't pronounce to save my life) is the second most printed
Later...
Teacher: (talking about nephi murdering laban)
Me: So why did Nephi have to go through all this trouble if joseph smith never even used the plates
Teacher: He did use the plates
Me: no he didn't he received direct revelation from god he never touched the plates
Teacher: no of course he used the plates
Me: but he used a rock in a hat it says it in the gospel topic essays
Teacher: We'll get into that later (Hurriedly goes into another discussion)
fun stuff
Saved comment
todojoya ยท 154 points ยท Posted at 13:25:33 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You my friend are the epitome of a good student! Just stating the facts backed by "church approved" resources and they can never stop you!
TW-RM ยท 139 points ยท Posted at 13:42:28 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
TSCC does not understand that the younger generation has a default setting to fact check. Their only response is to guilt trip kids for being "addicted" to their phones. It's never going to work.
soapy_goatherd ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 18:09:16 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
LDS tools can only do so much to shelter the youth...
FutureExM1 ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 19:44:21 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This. They may be able to scare some Boomers and older away from information. But most members see the clear value of smartphones, the internet, social media, etc. Broad statements against them make leaders appear as completely uninspired.
recoveringcultist ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:00:58 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
THIS^
mindofmateo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:08:57 on September 4, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ehhhh, I'd say they have better opportunities to fact check, there are still plenty of lazies and dumbasses.
Mysid ยท 255 points ยท Posted at 13:24:36 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Citing the gospel topic essays was masterfully done.
[deleted] ยท 55 points ยท Posted at 14:56:44 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
All hail Parrot 6632!!!!
zando95 ยท 73 points ยท Posted at 14:04:18 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The plates Nephi stole and murdered Laban for (the brass plates) are not the same as the plates Joseph found.
[deleted] ยท 50 points ยท Posted at 14:10:13 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This. If we're gonna be challenging and critical, we need to be correct when we do it.
cinepro ยท 205 points ยท Posted at 14:11:44 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The better question would have been "So, would Joseph Smith have been justified in murdering Martin Harris's wife to get back the 116 pages of the Book of Mormon?"
[deleted] ยท 73 points ยท Posted at 14:12:41 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
takes off sunglasses
Holy shit.
Corsair64 ยท 52 points ยท Posted at 14:53:35 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That is a painfully interesting question. Let's turn this around and save Laban's life. Why couldn't Nephi just use a seer stone and receive the all the text and precious doctrine from the Brass Plates? Laban would have stayed alive and Nephi would have not have a murder on his conscience.
QuickSpore ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 15:10:41 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Fake answer - Plates are still necessary. Jospeh didn't have to have the plates immediately present, but they had to be nearby. Like WiFi, seer stones have a fairly tight operating radius. He could translate plates that were buried in the woods nearby his house. But he couldn't translate them if they were back in Manchester while he was in Harmony. So Nephi would have needed the plates to be nearby at least.
Apologist answer - Nephi didn't have a seer stone. The Nephites didn't acquire the urim and thummin until they found the plates of Ether and the urim and thummin the Jaredites had. Why God just couldn't give Nephi one is an exercise that is left to the reader.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 18:56:56 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh fuck you ;)
Thuther ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:20:54 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is great!! When it's all made up there's always an out!
OhMyStarsnGarters ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 15:03:31 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was a test for the Lehi family silly.
Corsair64 ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 15:53:08 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I wonder if it was also a test for Laban's family. I won't claim he was a good guy, although we only have Nephi's opinion on the matter. However, let's look at the situation in Jerusalem the next morning after Lehi's sons left with the plates.
As the morning sun rises, the headless, naked Laban is found in a huge pool of blood. This is crazy serial killer territory here. Why was he decapitated? Why is he naked? Where are his clothes now? Authorities subsequently discover that the precious Brass Plates are missing along with Laban's long time servant, Zoram. Zoram is now a "person of interest" if not suspect number one. But then, Laban's guards confirm that the son's of exiled prophet Lehi came by Laban's home last night trying to buy the plates! Shortly after they left, Laban went out drinking and never returned.
From this point of view, this looks like an episode of "Jerusalem: CSI" and not a scripture story that we tell Primary children. I really don't think that Joseph Smith thought through some of these details.
KoolAidRefuser ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:53:37 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's what I call "pulling out the 'magic' card". Once used in an argument, all other magical possibilities are equally as plausible.
Leolisk ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:06:50 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nah, see, the Remote Translating Powers (TM) gifted by Gob are similar to bluetooth in function. He doesn't physically need the plates in front of them but they still have to be in the general proximity for the signal to work. He the rock couldn't have synced with the plates if they were buried in some ancient hidden chamber in Jerusalem
PayLayFail ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:08:06 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Mormon God right now.
AssPennies ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:17:18 on September 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That is a strapping young man. I wonder if he might have any tokens for sale.
TokensForSale ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:19:37 on September 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Dude, you looking to buy?
exmormonness ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:28:38 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Never thought of that. Good one.
Anti-Nephi-Zelphi ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:01:20 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wow... nice! This made me think... was the story of Nephi cutting off Laban's head a warning shot across the bow at Martin Harris and his wife? Basically saying, "Get your house in line or God will destroy you." He said it to others in the D&C, including his wife.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:53:05 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Now that is effing funny:)
mindofmateo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:09:38 on September 4, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You earned that gold. Well done.
blindmormon ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 14:19:17 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
True. However, an argument can be made that if Joseph Smith only needed a rock to receive an ancient book of scripture, why did God command Nephi to kill another human being instead of simply giving him a rock?
SoUtJammerwoch ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 18:49:06 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What struck me is that not only did the student confuse the brass plates of Laban with the gold plates of Mormon, so did his seminary teacher. (And so did many of us, until the discrepancy was pointed out a ways down the thread.)
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:19:26 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I love that this is the culture of this sub.
๐๏ธ parrot6632 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:28:41 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I know and the issue was clarified in class but i didn't want to make my post too long
zando95 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:33:35 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Cool cool
WeaverFan420 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:24:40 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Whatever happened to Laban's plates then? They were supposed to contain the old testament for Lehi's voyage, right?
Rickexmo ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:54:17 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, including Isaiah which some scholars believe was written sometime A.D.
WeaverFan420 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:55:58 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If it was writren in AD, then I would need to do some research to see if that's plausible or not. If it was written after christ thats a damning anachronism.
atapirofdoubt ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 21:25:53 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I know Deutero-Isaiah was supposedly written after Lehi left Jerusalem, but I don't know if it was written AD.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Isaiah
Rickexmo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:20:10 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes very damning. I heard it yesterday in the Tom Phillips 2nd anointing mormon stories podcast.
cinepro ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:09:49 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Please stick with the narrative.
seventhvision ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:08:01 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's all made up. Laban never existed. The only real thing in the story was JS and the brown turd like rock he carried around.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:02:26 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
True but that was the source of all the old testament quotes. It was a nice segway into this issue of plates.
nooneknowsa ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:16:41 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought they were? Didn't Mormon keep those unabridged?
blindmormon ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:20:53 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nephis plates were the Old Testament up to Jeremiah.
nooneknowsa ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:48:18 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, ok. Thanks! Looks like I should pay more att- no I can't even finish.
Pharticus78 ยท 42 points ยท Posted at 12:36:01 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Keep needling. Well done.
morumon_k ยท 33 points ยท Posted at 13:54:07 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My 15 y.o. corrected her bishop in a fireside when he said that "commandments don't change". He corrected his statement and I couldn't be more proud that my daughter is listening to me! I don't let people get away with teaching traditions as doctrine either.
WeaverFan420 ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 14:26:48 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Bishop: "Commandments don't change."
Daughter: "tell that to Helen Mar Kimball and all the other poor wives."
415800002SM ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:43:00 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Touchรฉ!
coolelder ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 16:28:07 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Commandments don't change. So am I still supposed to stone my son for disorderly conduct?
Cryhavok101 ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 21:42:52 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
One of the biggest things that drives me away from members.
"I can't watch that, it's on sunday, and mormons don't want TV on sundays." What the literal fuck?!?! Joseph Smith never had a fucking TV bitch, how did he make that rule?!?!?
Readbooks6 ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 13:14:02 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm very proud of you. Keep up the good work.
CommentChainStopper ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:38:18 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Keep up the "God" work
underzionsradar ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 13:55:41 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
OP answers phone...
"Hi, Parrot6632? This is the ward clerk wondering if 7:30 or 8:30 this evening is better for you to meet with the bishopric and your seminary teacher."
GreatAndSpacious ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 15:30:14 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"No."
theholytapir ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 13:39:26 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Would you attend my Sunday school class and do the same thing? I don't have the balls to do it myself. I would kill (in a less messy way than cutting off someone's head) to have a visitor in a suit and tie and ironed white shirt come and preach the real gospel.
Edit: I would settle for a snufferite too. Anything to get the discussion pointing towards the truth
vh65 ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 13:51:58 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hmmmm offer the right reward and someone will probably take you up on it. Especially if the lesson is an easy target like D&C 132. Hell I would almost go to that one if I wasn't too far away.
You buying breakfast or just coffee? Put out a call on your own post and maybe your ward will have a visitor.
Tindale ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 14:32:37 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Good for you, you little shit. The teacher must hate having you in their class. Keep up the missionary work. You won't change the teacher's mind but you might put a few items on other students' shelves.
WeaverFan420 ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 14:22:22 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Good work, just don't let the teacher run the show. Tell the class "the gospel topics essay in depth describes how Joseph used his treasure-seeking seerstone in the hat to dictate the BoM. He didnt use the plates or the Nephite interpreters. The pictures at church of Joseph using the golden plates to translate are inaccurate because he didn't use the gold plates to translate."
ragin2cajun ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:35:38 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Can you imagine the narrative of the translation process if Joseph never had the plates? Joseph Smith didn't have the plates with him in the same room or same building most of the time. So if geographical location wasn't a necessity, then why even remove them from the ground? Wouldn't they have been safer in the ground instead of JS being chased through the woods at night, instead of having to use the urim and thummin to detect danger? It would have just been a story about a guy in his attic looking into a hat with a rock in it writing words down, and we would be talking about the JS vision/revelation of the BoM.
Taking the plates from the story doesn't change anything about what actually happened
fuckeveryone________ ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 14:36:42 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
fuck seminary
GreatAndSpacious ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:30:24 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There you are
Cryhavok101 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:44:29 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Don't. We don't want it to breed.
MakeItLegalBitches ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 19:42:59 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I got kicked out of Seminary (well, "asked" to stop coming it due to my disruptive nature) in 11th grade when we studied D&C. There were just SO many fantastic idiosyncrasies and outright contradictions in it, I couldn't help but ask "So, was Joe lying when he wrote passage X? Or when he wrote the contradicting passage Y?"
AllOutofAngst ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:12:57 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Some info on the printed books: http://thevisualcommunicationguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Infographic_Worlds18MostWidelyReadBooks2.jpg
nooneknowsa ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:17:27 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Please teach me, I fucking hate seminary.
SisterFannyPants ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 13:54:27 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A+ - Well done!
cinepro ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:07:57 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"Because the plates Nephi was getting weren't the plates Joseph Smith was going to use. This is the beginning of the story, and these plates were for the use of the Nephites themselves for the next 1,000 years."
WeaverFan420 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:28:17 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did those plates contain the 18th century KJV translation of the Bible?
๐๏ธ parrot6632 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:28:59 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
i clarified that in class when asked but i didn't write it down here sorry
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:55:29 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Tsk tsk tsk.
OldAndOrnery ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:00:25 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A lot of people don't like facts to get in the way of a good story :)
Dustserttled ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:44:57 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Fist bump.
coolelder ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:31:28 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Seminary teachers used to get away with this when I was a kid. Now, everyone carries a device in their pocket that can be used for fact checking in real time. I love it!
given2fly_ ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:47:56 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
On your point about the BoM being the 8th most printed book, I remember on my mission wanting so desperately to help make it second only to the Bible.
I made sure I ordered enough from the office to have loads of them at my flat, and gave them out at every opportunity. I even left them on bus seats so they'd get found in lost property and maybe plant a seed.
What a shame that such nonsense graces the top 10 list. But remember, the first Harry Potter book is 7 million copies behind...surely that'll overtake it soon?
grove_doubter ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:03:59 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Your mention of Harry Potter made me think...the SORTING HAT that assigned Hogwarts first year students to one of the four Hogwarts houses is kind of like the PATRIARCHAL BLESSING.
In both cases, something is placed on the head of the individual and a lineage is declared.
classicrando ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:04:52 on September 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Printed and mostly tossed (I bet it is the #1 book in land fills) but sold is different:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_books
emilvikstrom ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:37:29 on September 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
First you would have to pass the Ikea catalog.
inthe801 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:59:33 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I wish I had your guts in Seminary when I was young. I would just roll my eyes and put my head down.
Koriwhoredoms ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:43:35 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You are awesome. I wish I had been as smart and awesome as you.
Word2daWise ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:14:03 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You ROCK! And you're not even stuck in a hat to do the rocking!
Corporatecut ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:57:15 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Savage!!!
rushaz ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:24:41 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's hilarious to watch teachers squirm when you not only contradict them, but back it up with EVIDENCE from the institution directly.
plasticbombastic ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:52:23 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Gospel Topics Essays Mastery! Gold star for you!
kevinrex ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:49:56 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Young lady, where is your respect for authority?
ZelphtheGreat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:02:47 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Only give respect to those who earn it. Liars are not in that group, unless they are superb - like Mark Hoffman?
kevinrex ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:04:24 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Written with sarcasm
LingunCun9791 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:30:41 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It is all a terrible tragedy.
breathethegreen ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:06:38 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You are a badass.
loveisbrokenhere ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:45:17 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Gold star!
TheJaxster007 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:47:07 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm going to use that
darkmagi724 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:37:14 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Love it!
Zadok_The_Priest ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:45:58 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did he miss Elder Ballard's admonition to become conversant with the essays? Another slothful servant teaching seminary.
1215angam ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:52:13 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Awesome. To add to that, Joseph Smith didn't claim to have any manuscript or ancient text to reveal the Book of Moses. The LDS church claims that the papyrus scrolls didn't actually contain the Book of Abraham but were merely a catalyst for him to receive it by revelation. Joseph Smith didn't need any actual ancient texts to receive these so-called revelations.
ZelphtheGreat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:58:52 on September 1, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ask him why he keeps trying to convince you of truth by telling you things that are not true? This is a major problem with L-d$,inc on all levels.
Might ask what is the difference in learning things that are not true and asking the questions through an Oijua board?
FreakinAwesome2017 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:45:24 on September 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wish you were in my seminary class! Hilarious dialogue!