Haha, how is that "out of context"?? Unless the next verse says something like, "And the Lord God of Israel said unto Isaiah, 'I can't believeth thou fellest for that, about I -even the Lord thy God- creating evil and darkness and what not... thou art so gullible, like unto my servant Job, who I the Lord God, the great I AM, trolleth to the ends of the earth.'"
[deleted] ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 19:19:42 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Apparently "taking something out of context" means taking it for what it says with no room for interpretation lol
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 23:14:16 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
2oothDK ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 23:32:33 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nearly everything Mormon God says can be easily taken out of context. Like when he said "Thou shalt not kill" he meant you should only kill if you feel a strong feeling that you should kill. "Thou shalt not commit adultery" unless you are a prophet, then go for it. "Thou shalt not look after another man's wife to lust after her" - again, unless your are an early Mormon prophet.
dreibel ยท 57 points ยท Posted at 16:06:08 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not sure how on mobile, but on desktop when you land on the Hot page for exmormon it will show your username on the right side of the screen down a little ways, and under it I think you click on edit or something. Its been a while and not currently on my desktop to look it up right now.
1C3BEAR ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:06:30 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm on mobile I will have to figure it out for myself I guess
vh65 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:57:24 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's called flair. In your account, add the one with letters, then edit the letters to say what you want.
If you are using Android, check out slide for reddit. Not only is it a great free reddit app, it also lets you edit your flair on the subreddit sidebar.
1). Don Cheadle
2). The military industrial complex
3). God, who created Satan after feeling he went a touch too far with his creation, Jeffrey R. Holland.
exmono ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:18:49 on August 3, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is a public service announcement! Steps for confronting history and information that contradicts the truthfulness of the church.
Say it is a lie!
If not, say it was taken out of context.
If said context isn't actually taken "out of context" state that it doesn't matter
If it does matter (does it really matter if Jospeh Smith created eternal marriage to bang other woman... Yes, yes it does) then say that "well only God can know things for a surety and we should all just wait until we are dead to make sense of all this... And of course we will learn it is all true."
Please like and share to combat satan and his demonic logic!
I remember discussing this with my bishop when I was younger. I always felt like Satan got screwed over. God made the plan of salvation knowing he was gonna have one of his "kids" play the role of eternally damned bad guy. It also made me start to think that the plan of salvation seemed a little predestined.
Meh - to be pedantic, evil exists whether or not there's someone to embody it. You can have a son who ends up embodying evil, but that doesn't make him the evil itself, right?
I mean, there's a number that exists that's never been thought of, never been written down, and never been seen, etc. (there's an infinite number of those numbers, by the way). Simply writing that number doesn't give it life, nor is the thing you wrote down the number itself, it's a representation of the number.
Sure, but those things can be measured. My personal feeling is that good and evil is a construct of man, and what is considered evil for one culture or society, might not be considered evil by another.
They can only be measured in the presence of intelligent life, because they are models created thereby; same as good and evil. Reality is mostly made of stories projected onto what "is" - maps of meaning.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 17:01:54 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
closms ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:16:39 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So in other words, evil is evil except when it isn't.
That's a great example of mental gymnastics.
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 17:25:27 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. Any time you have to cherry pick translations like this because the majority of them don't have the wording you want, you have a bad argument. It's especially bad in this case since there seems to be only one translation the apostate can use to make his point.
Also, saying he didn't is saying God didn't create everything or at the least create what created it. Either way you either admit that God created evil (which I personally believe he did) or you think God isn't truely a God.
The moment you create something, you imply its opposite - light implies dark, good implies evil, etc. This is basic philosophy stuff. At least God owns up to it in scripture, Mormons would do well to realize they do the exact same thing. You create immodesty by defining modesty - you create the 'evils' in your world by defining 'goods'. "Porn shoulders" are only 'evil' because they've defined them as being so. Same for porn. Tell a kid that something is evil, and, by golly, it will be. Yay!!!
That said, it's necessary to do this - we can't recognize, understand or appreciate good until we understand its polar opposite, and then, we "shall be as the Gods, knowing good and evil." Without it, we are in a state of innocence (read: ignorance).
"At the very roots of Chinese thinking and feeling there lies the principle of polarity, which is not to be confused with the ideas of opposition or conflict. In the metaphors of other cultures, light is at war with darkness, life with death, good with evil, and the positive with the negative, and thus an idealism to cultivate the former and be rid of the latter flourishes throughout much of the world.
"To the traditional way of Chinese thinking this is as incomprehensible as an electric current without both positive and negative poles, for polarity is the principle that plus and minus, north and south, are different aspects of one and the same system, and that the disappearance of either one of them would be the disappearance of the system."- Alan Watts
closms ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:47:05 on August 3, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Good point. TSCC creates eternal separation as well as eternal marriage.
I'm not saying the following is reasonable or let's God off the hook for evil, but I could understand a context being that the making of light thereby creates darkness and the making of peace thereby creates evil in a conceptual rather than literal way. I think in this context the two are paired opposites so instead of thinking of it as God creates all evil, it's the opposite of peace that God is speaking of creating here and giving the name evil. I suppose you could take it one step further by saying that the creation of paired opposites doesn't actually mean the instantiation of the opposite, only the conceptual basis for comparison. I think it's best to try to find the strongest possible position of an opponent and defeat that position.
Came here to essentially point this out, and after posting my own comment, found yours. : )
However, in a sense, we each create evil by virtue of those things we judge to be "good" and those we judge to be "evil" - a sleeveless dress becomes 'immodest' because we deem it that way, not because of any inherent immodesty in the dress itself, etc.
I mean, I create things that do not taste delicious by virtue of judging those which do. This is yet one more reason why it's obvious that each of us is a god already.
Saved comment
late_warmonger ยท 145 points ยท Posted at 16:55:18 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Haha, how is that "out of context"?? Unless the next verse says something like, "And the Lord God of Israel said unto Isaiah, 'I can't believeth thou fellest for that, about I -even the Lord thy God- creating evil and darkness and what not... thou art so gullible, like unto my servant Job, who I the Lord God, the great I AM, trolleth to the ends of the earth.'"
[deleted] ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 19:19:42 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Apparently "taking something out of context" means taking it for what it says with no room for interpretation lol
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 23:14:16 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
timoneer ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 02:38:40 on August 3, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
*can'teth
FuzzieMann ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:39:29 on August 3, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I rolleth on thine floor laughing
2oothDK ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 23:32:33 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nearly everything Mormon God says can be easily taken out of context. Like when he said "Thou shalt not kill" he meant you should only kill if you feel a strong feeling that you should kill. "Thou shalt not commit adultery" unless you are a prophet, then go for it. "Thou shalt not look after another man's wife to lust after her" - again, unless your are an early Mormon prophet.
dreibel ยท 57 points ยท Posted at 16:06:08 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
and who created Satan? Three guesses.
FootprintsInTheShit ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 16:31:02 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Satan inseminated his own mother. Also his mother was God, making Satan gay. And maybe also God gay.
1C3BEAR ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:25:14 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How do you Get that text besides your name
FootprintsInTheShit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:05:19 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not sure how on mobile, but on desktop when you land on the Hot page for exmormon it will show your username on the right side of the screen down a little ways, and under it I think you click on edit or something. Its been a while and not currently on my desktop to look it up right now.
1C3BEAR ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:06:30 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm on mobile I will have to figure it out for myself I guess
vh65 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:57:24 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's called flair. In your account, add the one with letters, then edit the letters to say what you want.
nvincent ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:31:29 on August 3, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you are using Android, check out slide for reddit. Not only is it a great free reddit app, it also lets you edit your flair on the subreddit sidebar.
BobZebart ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 16:40:46 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
1). Don Cheadle 2). The military industrial complex 3). God, who created Satan after feeling he went a touch too far with his creation, Jeffrey R. Holland.
exmono ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:18:49 on August 3, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
thatgayguy12 ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 18:41:57 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is a public service announcement! Steps for confronting history and information that contradicts the truthfulness of the church.
Please like and share to combat satan and his demonic logic!
littlemisfit ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 19:00:56 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You forgot step 5: When all else fails, bear your testimony
BishopRick ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 02:08:37 on August 3, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Step 6: If testimony fails, raise arm to the square and rebuke Satan.
thatgayguy12 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:22:04 on August 3, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because if they aren't convinced by step 5 then they are totally possesed! Or gay...
I_choose_not_to_ ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:52:48 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Did they care to explain the context?
Lazersaurus ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 21:18:18 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Mormon God's plan relies on Satan. Somehow it relies on Satan before there was a Satan. Mormon God made Satan, and gave Satan all his power.
Zadok_The_Priest ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 03:31:31 on August 3, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When I still was participating I figured that at the end God would turn to to Satan and say, "well done thou good and faithful servant."
BrosephFSmith ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:46:15 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I remember discussing this with my bishop when I was younger. I always felt like Satan got screwed over. God made the plan of salvation knowing he was gonna have one of his "kids" play the role of eternally damned bad guy. It also made me start to think that the plan of salvation seemed a little predestined.
ThomasDidymus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:17:39 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Meh - to be pedantic, evil exists whether or not there's someone to embody it. You can have a son who ends up embodying evil, but that doesn't make him the evil itself, right?
I mean, there's a number that exists that's never been thought of, never been written down, and never been seen, etc. (there's an infinite number of those numbers, by the way). Simply writing that number doesn't give it life, nor is the thing you wrote down the number itself, it's a representation of the number.
Anyway, you get my point. :P
Lazersaurus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:30:43 on August 3, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So you are saying evil exists in the absence of intelligent life?
ThomasDidymus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:59:23 on August 3, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Do numbers exist in the absence of intelligent life? Elements, such as hydrogen and oxygen?
Lazersaurus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:33:36 on August 3, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sure, but those things can be measured. My personal feeling is that good and evil is a construct of man, and what is considered evil for one culture or society, might not be considered evil by another.
ThomasDidymus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:42:50 on August 4, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They can only be measured in the presence of intelligent life, because they are models created thereby; same as good and evil. Reality is mostly made of stories projected onto what "is" - maps of meaning.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 17:01:54 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
closms ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:16:39 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So in other words, evil is evil except when it isn't.
That's a great example of mental gymnastics.
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 17:25:27 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
designerutah ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 18:35:20 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thing is though that members are 'supposed' to be using the KJV, so they have to deal with the poor translation.
closms ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:32:11 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ah, so newer bible editions do fix bugs. That's encouraging. I hope they get to fixing the genocide and homosexuality references soon.
LeSchmall ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:03:50 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
^ This. When you use a translation that has 400+ year old english (KJV), youre inevitably going to misunderstand things.
CampCounselorBatman ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:15:45 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. Any time you have to cherry pick translations like this because the majority of them don't have the wording you want, you have a bad argument. It's especially bad in this case since there seems to be only one translation the apostate can use to make his point.
Umpalumpa117 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:43:03 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Also, saying he didn't is saying God didn't create everything or at the least create what created it. Either way you either admit that God created evil (which I personally believe he did) or you think God isn't truely a God.
BishopRick ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:06:49 on August 3, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If there is actually a god, then it created evil. Not really convinced it exists though.
Chief_Joseph ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:58:46 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
OUT OF CONTEXT!!!!!
Zadok_The_Priest ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:29:12 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Who then created Satan? Is God powerless against Satan's evil? If powerless, then Satan is stronger than God. If not powerless, then stop the evil.
ZelphtheGreat ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:53:15 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Satan and the 1/3 that were cast out were all created by God.
But remember, when you have FAITH - FACTS don't matter.
Afire1nside ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:34:25 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Biggest goal moving ever!!
ThomasDidymus ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:11:26 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The moment you create something, you imply its opposite - light implies dark, good implies evil, etc. This is basic philosophy stuff. At least God owns up to it in scripture, Mormons would do well to realize they do the exact same thing. You create immodesty by defining modesty - you create the 'evils' in your world by defining 'goods'. "Porn shoulders" are only 'evil' because they've defined them as being so. Same for porn. Tell a kid that something is evil, and, by golly, it will be. Yay!!!
That said, it's necessary to do this - we can't recognize, understand or appreciate good until we understand its polar opposite, and then, we "shall be as the Gods, knowing good and evil." Without it, we are in a state of innocence (read: ignorance).
closms ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:47:05 on August 3, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Good point. TSCC creates eternal separation as well as eternal marriage.
Broken-Butterfly ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:05:55 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That is goddam hilarious.
Soylent1981 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:30:20 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not saying the following is reasonable or let's God off the hook for evil, but I could understand a context being that the making of light thereby creates darkness and the making of peace thereby creates evil in a conceptual rather than literal way. I think in this context the two are paired opposites so instead of thinking of it as God creates all evil, it's the opposite of peace that God is speaking of creating here and giving the name evil. I suppose you could take it one step further by saying that the creation of paired opposites doesn't actually mean the instantiation of the opposite, only the conceptual basis for comparison. I think it's best to try to find the strongest possible position of an opponent and defeat that position.
ThomasDidymus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:23:43 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Came here to essentially point this out, and after posting my own comment, found yours. : )
However, in a sense, we each create evil by virtue of those things we judge to be "good" and those we judge to be "evil" - a sleeveless dress becomes 'immodest' because we deem it that way, not because of any inherent immodesty in the dress itself, etc.
I mean, I create things that do not taste delicious by virtue of judging those which do. This is yet one more reason why it's obvious that each of us is a god already.
LDSdotOgre ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:15:05 on August 2, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
CONTEXT!
Funny video on that subject:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK7P7uZFf5o
UnitysBlueTits ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:57:17 on August 3, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
These make me so fucking angry. Like I seriously need to punch something right now. How can people be like this.
kayjee17 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:28:57 on August 3, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks for the literal LOL, I needed it.
pokemaster26 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:36:20 on August 3, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah outside the context of the definition of words.