The mass of a super-massive black hole measured in suns

๐ŸŽ™๏ธ fatwoof ยท 1959 points ยท Posted at 14:10:02 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)


Lerry220 ยท 97 points ยท Posted at 17:24:33 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

While I enjoy having a sense of how massive the black hole is, I now want to know how much volume the super massive black hole takes up, relative to the unit of mass it just established itself with.

[deleted] ยท 65 points ยท Posted at 17:49:43 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

The "size" of a black hole is a tricky concept, because we think black holes are point masses, that is, they take up no space at all. However, the Schwatzschild radius of the supermassive black hole in the center of our galaxy is about 13 million kilometers, which is only 10 times the diameter of our sun.

autowikibot ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 17:50:02 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Section 5. Supermassive black hole of article Schwarzschild radius:


A supermassive black hole (SMBH) is the largest type of black hole, though there is little official criteria on how such an object is considered so, on the order of hundreds of thousands to billions of solar masses. (Supermassive black holes up to 21 billion (2.1 ร— 1010)ย Mโ˜‰ have been detected, such as NGC 4889.) Unlike stellar mass black holes, supermassive black holes have low densities if you assume that the Schwarzschild radius is the outer edge of the black hole (note that this assumption is in contrast to the typical assumption that a black hole is a singularity, and therefore has zero radial extent). Under this assumption, the average density of a supermassive black hole can be less than the density of water.


Relevant: Planck particle | Planck mass | Schwarzschild metric | Black hole electron

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henskies ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 05:54:31 on June 20, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

how does that happen

[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 06:25:21 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

I don't understand how they can say black holes take up no space. It's right there, how's it taking up no space if it's right there?

[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 07:02:01 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*

Objects usually take up space because their charged particles - electrons and protons - are pushing each other apart. Electrons pushing electrons is why you can touch things and why your hand won't just fall through a table, even though atoms are mostly empty space. Protons pushing protons is why nuclei have dimensions and aren't point masses.

Now, a black hole happens when matter is packed densely enough that all these repelling forces are overcome and all the particles attract each other despite these forces. This makes the matter more dense, which in turn strengthens the gravitational force further. Because there's nothing pushing these particles apart, we end up with them all occupying the same point in space - they become a singularity.

A black hole's Schwartzschild radius isn't really its dimensional size. If I remember correctly, it's the distance from which the black hole's gravitational pull is so strong that literally nothing can escape it. I suggest you do some googling about that part, because I find it quite cool.

EDIT: one thing I'd like to add - the reason why we say the singularity "takes up 0 space" instead of "takes up only a little space" is because in chemistry and physics, we define the dimensions of particles, atoms and molecules by how far they are from the particles next to them. Since in a black hole the particles are all literally in the same spot, not just very near to each other, there is no distance or dimensions to measure or define, and thus we say that the volume of the singularity is 0.

Whether this is true is, if I'm not mistaken, basically impossible to determine, because the way we measure things in science is we bounce light, electrons or other particles off the thing we want to measure and then see how they change. A black hole just absorbs all these particles and we're none the wiser.

AnnTauz ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 08:23:06 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Wait if it has a V=0 Where is all that mass stored?

CatBagels ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 08:39:45 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

I'm not the guy you replied to, but I'm actually going to be a senior in college next year, as an astrophysics major.

I don't know how to answer your question, and I think that's because it's not a meaningful question to ask. It doesn't really make sense. So I'll say this instead.

Something you've got to recognize when you start trying to understand reality on a physical and fundamental level is... well, it's sort of that.. your experience with reality is irrelevant. It doesn't matter. Most people bring a level of instinct/intuition/'common sense' into places like this, where it isn't welcome. It's not warranted. It's detrimental to your understanding; it misleads you; the questions you are inclined to ask become much different, and not at all helpful.

You are familiar with "things" "taking up" "space". Your intuitive understanding of what all those terms mean is incorrect when it comes to this subject matter. The nature of reality does not pair well with our mechanisms of learning and understanding, because the only thing evolution cares about is an organism's ability to survive. Not only that, but survive here - on a specific planet. Evolution does not select for the ability to know the truth of reality.

[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:28:59 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

That helps a lot. Thank you.

CatBagels ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 07:15:52 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

/u/justwondrin did a pretty good job of explaining what 'taking up space' actually entails, but I think your confusion mostly - or at least partially - lies elsewhere.

The term "black hole", when discussed in science, does not refer to the black circle in this. This is a fucking HUGE misconception that the general public has about black holes! It's sincerely upsetting.

The mass of a black hole doesn't take up any space (theoretically sort of ). Meaning its volume = 0. Meaning it's a singularity! And that theoretical object exists at the very center of the black circle in that picture I linked. The black circle's edge is called the event horizon. It's defined by the ability of light to escape the gravity of the black hole. It is not the actual object itself.

Hope that's helpful.

[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:13:16 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*

Comment No Longer Exist

Turtle_78 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:31:55 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

For the foreseeable future our solar system will continue to orbit that black hole. I'm not entirely sure what your second question is asking.

Cronoadvan ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 05:25:10 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Just as Earth is falling into the sun, the whole galaxy is spiraling(collapsing) into that black hole, so it's just a matter of time, we are already under it's gravitational pull.

Unless the collision with Andromeda knocks it away first of course.

itbrokeoff ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:55:22 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

You are getting downvoted because you said "it's just a matter of time."

You start off so well with "Just as Earth is falling into the sun, the whole galaxy is spiraling(collapsing) into that black hole"...

"Spiraling" is correct, "collapsing" is not. Black holes are not like vacuum cleaners that relentlessly suck in everything around it, they are like suns that cause things to orbit.

There is a very illuminating fact that is often brought up in these discussions: If our sun somehow became a black hole, the only really noticeable thing that would change would be that it no longer emits visible light. The earth would continue on the same orbit because the black hole would be the same mass as the sun.

Just as the planets are NOT being sucked into the sun but simply orbiting it in a stable configuration, the black hole at the centre of the galaxy does not doom the stars in the galaxy to be consumed.

DKlein4 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:43:17 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

It shows it in the source video.

blaggosphere ยท 276 points ยท Posted at 16:57:33 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

That escalated exponentially. Lol

Cyganek ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 17:06:48 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

:)

NotJustSamOne ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 22:14:59 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

A SMILEY FACE?!! HOW DARE YOU ................

Mr_Winsterhammerman ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 02:51:18 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

:|

sinwarrior ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:55:02 on June 22, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

:c

TheCommissarGeneral ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:00:25 on September 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

:/

๐ŸŽ™๏ธ fatwoof ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 14:11:19 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Maavs ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 20:43:35 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

The dramatic music makes it so much better

AndruRC ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:25:47 on October 28, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

It makes it terrifying

cor315 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 22:48:43 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

The fact that there's a black hole that looks about 100 times larger than our solar system is absolutely insane.

SarcasticSeriously ยท 54 points ยท Posted at 17:33:39 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

I just can't fathom the size of our universe.

oniony ยท 44 points ยท Posted at 22:38:10 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

It's certain certainly deeper than a fathom. It's in a different league altogether.

Damnmorrisdancer ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 00:38:17 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

That's deep

ExPatBadger ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 02:19:22 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

I sea what you did there.

[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:26:16 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

super fathoms

Chulda ยท 144 points ยท Posted at 16:45:38 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Jesus Christ, it just kept going and going.

Also... for some reason the sun-cubes look delicious. Like orange jello.

izolalozi ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 16:46:56 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Try our new Hydrogen Fusion flavor!

ErroneousEric ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 19:34:01 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
jupiterkansas ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 21:58:15 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Careful. It's hot.

wanabeswordsman ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:41:09 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

It's so funny, I had this thought in the back of my mind while watching this, and you saying the sun-cubes looked delicious made me realize it was that exact thought. Those things look downright snackable.

slaming ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 17:04:59 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Thanks god it had the holy crap level! I was struggling to measure it myself!

twitchosx ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 19:38:36 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

How the fuck does that not fuck up the entire universe?

ShowtimeCA ยท 35 points ยท Posted at 19:54:55 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Because the entire universe is even more fucking massive :D

ChefBoyarDEZZNUTZZ ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 20:09:56 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

My peen is so small :(

Dirtpig ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:37:34 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Awe, it is ok little fella. There are creams and pumps for that kind of thing.

fakeuserisreal ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 20:01:38 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

But it does. Black holes are just places where the universe glitches out from too much mass in one place and spacetime gets all fucked up.

[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 06:28:39 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

That's the clearest explanation of that I've ever read.

[deleted] ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 17:49:17 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

This helped me visualize how much $20 billion is. That's nuts. Also, black holes are heavy.

Fun1k ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:31:21 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*

Even better, try to open a text editor and write 10 dots, copy them and paste them 10 times, then copy and paste that and so on, after a while your computer will have problems with that. It's telling how big those numbers are when a modern computer can't handle them well.

Popkins ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 23:05:07 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
  • How does that help someone visualize $20 billion.

  • Modern computers have absolutely no problem with such numbers

JIGGA_HERTZ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:09:47 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Actually, when you get to billion arithmetic calculations, modern machines do get problems keeping up. CS student here.

frubbliness ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 23:29:34 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Now I only took a single CS course, but as I understand it, it takes a lot more processing power to print something to the screen than for the computer to just calculate it. So a loop that increments a value by 1 a billion times will take a much longer time if you print every new value rather than just printing the final value.

Popkins ยท -14 points ยท Posted at 23:41:21 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

You're a pretty bad CS student I guess.

A PlayStation 4 has 1.84 TFLOPS. That's 1840 times more than a GFLOP.

JIGGA_HERTZ ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 01:49:30 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Ok?

[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 09:54:00 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Trust him, he's a tflop expert.

JIGGA_HERTZ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:22:12 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Believe me, I've been known to tflop myself.

Popkins ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 11:49:03 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

A GFLOP is a billion floating point calculations per second.

Which means what I said is directly related to what you said. In fact it refutes what you said.

But you neither knew, nor understood that, because you are a pretty bad CS student.

Have a nice day.

JIGGA_HERTZ ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:09:03 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

http://i.imgur.com/QodSEnD.jpg
I can't afford gold

0zeyn0 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 18:48:41 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

I lose perspective

MuzzEmil ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:34:23 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

The numbers get so big there is just no way for us to comprehend it.

IAMA_HELICOPTER_AMA ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 19:24:18 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*

In case you're curious about the numbers:

100 suns x 100 suns = 10,000 suns square

10,000 suns square x 100 suns = 1 million suns cube

10 x 10 x 10 million suns cubes = 1 billion suns supercube

4 x 5 supercubes = 20 billion suns

GnuRip ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:23:28 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

1000 suns square x 100 suns = 1 million suns cube

you forgot a 0 (seems like nothing, but actually means 900,000 suns)

IAMA_HELICOPTER_AMA ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:23:37 on June 24, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Right you are, edited!

Endless_Search ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:28:21 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Now do it with Betelguesian-sized Suns!

k4kuz0 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:50:15 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Stupid question, but I assume the measurement uses OUR sun?

fuckyoucuntycunt ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 20:00:59 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Yes this is correct

wnbaloll ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:44:27 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Yep! When someone says the sun, they mean our star. Star is just a general term, but the sun is oursโ˜€๏ธ

[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:41:33 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

[deleted]

gnarwallman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:37:57 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

There are ither suns, but they are not "the" sun

derpmcgurt ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 08:36:13 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

No, there aren't. There are billions of stars, but only one of them is the Sun.

gnarwallman ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:34:19 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
righteous_potions_wi ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:00:39 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

The number is so massive it's practically meaningless. How do I even begin to understand that number let alone its implications?

[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:15:33 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

I think I"m having a panic attack

Awe101 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:49:14 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Educating but I ain't intimidated!

[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:30:13 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Every time it zoomed out and added another cube I was like "Holy crap! No! Stop getting bigger!" Damn, the Universe is amazing.

cybersteel8 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:23:14 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

I know right. I lost my shit the first time it made a cube out of cubes, but AGAIN?!

[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:31:22 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

[deleted]

vervurax ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:54:09 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

You must be very odd.

gimpwiz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:43:32 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Definitely missed the chance to have it all collapse down to a size relatable to the sun.

[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:04:23 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

So, like, a lot?

AbortusLuciferum ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:06:45 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

thats hot

MustTurnLeftOnRed ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:56:18 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Oh come on... How am I suppose to fight that.

[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:25:24 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Mind... poof

mccartyb03 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:52:30 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

That just doesn't even make sense.

skyfucker6 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:35:01 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

I would like to see how small a volume that mass is condensed into as a black hole

ScienceShawn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:53:00 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

A black hole is a singularity so it's all condensed into a single point. Which is really hard to wrap your mind around. As for the event horizon of said black hole, I don't remember, it was posted in another thread in another sub a day or two ago. I'll find it tomorrow when I wake up and let you know!

skyfucker6 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:56:35 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

I'm not sure if that's true. I think it just has to be so dense that it warps space-time enough to prevent light from escaping the event horizon.

They say in the video that if the mass of the earth was shrunk down to the size of a peanut, it would become a black hole.

ScienceShawn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:33:53 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

If it was shrunk down that much it would collapse into a singularity.

kiernan19 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:54:38 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
AdamtheClown ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:23:43 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

It hurts to try to comprehend. It's such a stupid amount it amazes me. The universe is truly something.

Ccracked ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:35:38 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

I kept waiting to see a Dickbutt resolve in there somewhere.

azsxdcfvg ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:33:00 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

holy crap, that's like over 10 times the sun

taneth ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:09:29 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

I was waiting for the whole thing to collapse into a singularity and it didn't happen.

daxpierson ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:38:29 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Holy fucking shit.

TheHaddockMan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:59:08 on June 21, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

I'd just like to point out that twenty billion solar masses is way way larger than most of what we usually call supermassive black holes. I mean, that's over 1000 times as massive as the Milky way's central black hole and according to this page there are only 5 in the universe bigger than that.

Ginkgopsida ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:43:13 on July 2, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Holy crab

[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:00:18 on October 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

I got scared and shut it off after the huge cubes of thousands started to multiply.

gowahoo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:25:13 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

The suns initially looked like tater tots.

Fasting people find food everywhere.

[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:37:06 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Cool and all, but I don't have any reference for how much mass the sun has.

MuzzEmil ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:33:27 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

approximately 1 metric shit-tons

reddit4getit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:26:22 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

The sun is really, really, really, big.

therobohour ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 21:41:09 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

Damn, that things as big as your moms!

[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:26:04 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

dรถm dรถm dรถm dรถdรถdรถdรถdรถ dรถm dรถm dรถm

N24

Jam_E_Dodger ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:02:00 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

0.0

pixeldragon ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:32:11 on June 19, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

wat

NutsEverywhere ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 23:18:06 on June 18, 2015 ยท (Permalink)

It just reminded me of that "GTA V Map/Yo Momma" gif.