Qubeye ยท 505 points ยท Posted at 13:27:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone remember Ellen Pao? Caused a huge storm on Reddit for numerous reasons, but on a podcast interview recently she talked about investors pressuring her to expand the website.
As far as I can tell, the current Reddit leadership is doing the same shit. They are trying to expand and push, they just aren't doing flagrantly unpopular shit like Ellen did.
Investors are presumably putting enormous pressure on /u/spez to do the same shit.
mith ยท 639 points ยท Posted at 14:05:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Ellen Pao was a scapegoat, the board used her to take all the heat for some unpopular changes they needed to make to appease investors.
Decyde ยท 290 points ยท Posted at 14:48:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This and people overlook this too damn much.
They pushed all that garbage before she left and then told people "we'll look at policies enacted while she was in charge and make changes where needed." and they did nothing about it.
Then they put Spez in charge who was editing peoples posts which completely destroys any integrity Reddit has. I 100% believe it was so they could avoid any subpoenas by the government for records from this past election or future subpoena requests for information posted on the site.
I dunno. Some of reddit is pretty... unstable. Some poor bastard in the middle of Oklahoma is gonna be getting harassed because someone changed something on reddit. Not that it's hard to find his real name or anything.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:29:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
My opinion on why- usernames give a mask for people to hide behind, even if you do know who they are in "real life". It puts a disconnect between the actual person and their actions. Calling him by his actual name instead of his username is insisting that he's not allowed to have that disconnect when he has so much responsibility given the size and reach of Reddit.
Then they put Spez in charge who was editing peoples posts
I'm not defending that, but I only remember it happening once.
Decyde ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:46:25 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It only takes once and how many people actually go back through things they post to see if they were edited.
With Hillary's tech guy posting on Reddit how to delete emails, it was only a matter of time before they were going to get a subpoena for records.
On the good side, I guess, none of your Reddit history can really be used against you in court. Your lawyer would just need to point out that anything can be edited without leaving a digital footprint and that Reddit admin's have done it before.
Perfect example of โThe Glass Cliffโ. Freakonomics recently did an episode as part of their CEO series that interviews Ellen and goes into detail about this concept.
Yup. They made changes and had her take the heat for it. Then pulled a Starbucks and brought a founder back in to withdraw some of those changes (that were inconsequential to their bottom line) to signal that they're still the website we fell in love with. Then they keep pushing Reddit towards a social media site where they can bring in more ad revenues.
wdmc2008 ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 00:49:56 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Sure, she may have been made to take the heat for Reddit's changes, but she was still a scummy person.
Let's not forget that the sued her former employer for gender discrimination and lost. Then she tried to blackmail them by filing an appeal and promising to drop it if they gave her $2.7 million.
Let's not forget that she married Buddy Fletcher, a failed hedge fund manager and black man who has sued multiple people for racial discrimination, and had his accusations dismissed every time.
I'd say if Reddit did set her up to take the fall, then it couldn't have happened to a more deserving person.
I am starting to think the Redditors outrage against Pao was just a showcase of Sexism. Here we have u/spez doing the same thing but we donโt have the same level of outrage, personal attacks and memes we had when Pao was the face of Reddit.
I donโt understand this direction at all. I work in digital marketing and could be a potential advertiser on Reddit. However we would never associate our brand with a platform where these hate groups are tolerated, even if we can avoid our ads being displayed on these subreddits, the hate groups are still a part of the website.
Qubeye ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:18:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Major companies outsource their advertising. Amazon doesn't individually purchase online ads, there's a company that is given X dollars to promote Amazon. Those intermediary companies really don't care about PR, most likely.
I do not have hard information or sources for this claim, but I have heard it a lot from Twitter feeds that deal with holding corporations accountable for providing funding to places like Daily Stormer, Brietbart, etc.
Timwi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:58:12 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If you work in that area, maybe you can answer me something I've always wondered. The number of people in T_D is not tiny, and if you add Trump supporters in general you get even higher numbers. At the time of the election that number was about 48% of US voters I think? (Not counting the non-voters, obviously) Now the approval rating is still around 30%, which is low for an approval rating of a president but still a considerable chunk of the population.
Isn't that a market worth advertising to? Aren't those people potential customers for products or services?
It seems to me a lot of people don't realize that these people are still people with a life and a desire for a good quality of life. Anything that might appeal to them, surely would make economical sense to advertise to them.
So I don't really get why everyone seems to assume that an advertiser would pull out just because you point out to them that the site has bigots and racists on it. Maybe in some cases those are the intended audience.
No you are right. I can imagine there are advertisers looking for exactly this target audience that T_D is catering to. Read this article for instance.
That infinite growth is impossible and billionaires are detrimental to society? Yes. If we can bitch and moan about the Minimum Wage then I can suggest to impliment a Maximum Wage. Hashtag No More Billionaires.
There's even science behind it! Did you know it's impossible for humans to imagine what a billion of anything is, let alone a million?
Musk can share his billions with his crack science team at the very least and the common folk at the most. Basic Income will help us as more and more of his and other robots take over our physical labor markets.
Minimum wage should be abolished?! Bitch people DIED for that law goddamn have some respect.
How big is a pile of a billion matches? Can you guess how many chickens the US kills a year? The answer my surprise you.
Bruh. Both sides died to end slavery and it still exists in the 13th amendment the moment you get put in prison. It's still going on and we need to amend the 13th again as well as the 2nd.
But we can make anything a crime. So let's be smart about that and change some laws to make more criminals of actual shitfucks instead of just people of color. #notallpoc
Basic Income will help us as more and more of his and other robots take over our physical labor markets.
No, it wonโt. It will make people lazy and inhibit growth and quality of life. And donโt call me a bitch you fucking bully. Have some respect.โ๐ฟ
Minimum wage should be abolished?! Bitch people DIED for that law goddamn have some respect.
Glad you feel the same way about the constitution and gun laws, right? I mean people died for those too.
Glad you also agree with this:
end the government and its billion/trillion dollar budgets.
Because people canโt comprehend billion/trillion budgets, which means GBI is dead in the water as far as your logic goes.
The sad thing is you could make the same argument except just say itโs like target had a section that was just naked people and suddenly all the porn on reddit goes away
Buy gold. I know that sounds snarky, but ads, no matter how shitty or shady, pay the bills. If you don't want ads, you have to pay.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:30:49 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I would gladly pay for a monthly subscription to reddit that removed all ads and didn't sell my data. Facebook too. Ad supported websites have become cancerous.
As the clitoris is sometimes referred to as a "pearl", I chose to be highly amused by your post.
Meanwhile, I agree with you.
rocqua ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 16:29:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The real difference between nazi's at target and t_d at reddit is company policy vs user-generated content.
A slightly better analogy might be a group of a 1000 people who arrange displays in swastika's once every 100 times they go to target.
Yes, it looks bad, and yes, target doesn't like it, but should target really just ban all 1000 people just to ensure they don't have a swastika every few weeks?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:29:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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dakkr ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:51:03 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, Target is a company and the purpose of a company is to maximise profit, NOT to act as moral agents. What they 'should' do is whatever furthers their purpose, thus they absolutely should NOT ban those 1000 people unless the cost of keeping them as customers outweighs the revenue they bring, which would not happen unless the situation makes the local news or something like that.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:52:12 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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Timwi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:11:29 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You're confusing what companies do because companies can only survive if they make a profit, and what companies should do because they're run by human beings who are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
dakkr ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:18:34 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not confusing anything. A company whose primary concern is turning a profit has no business acting as a moral agent. When I as a person want to decide what is right and what is wrong, I don't look to fucking McDonald's or Walmart for an example of what is morally correct, because I know that they don't concern themselves with what is right, but with what furthers their brand. And because I'm not an idiot, I understand that this is not a result of any kind of overt malicious intent, because as you said they're run by human beings, but rather that it is an inherent part of the framework of what a company IS within a capitalist system, that once a company grows beyond a few individuals it will always by necessity prioritize growth and profit over moral considerations, or else it will fail.
Your way of thinking might work in fairyland where everything is perfect and actions don't have costs. Here on Earth it's not a realistic proposition.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:26:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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baconair ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 17:30:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
/r/stopadvertising is against hateful and racist subs (such as the_donald)
their way of combating them is by making sure advertisers know the subs exist, in hopes of pulling funding/applying financial pressure to reddit
Advertisers hate seeing their ads next to hateful content, and sometimes ask to see a screenshot with the ad near the content (e.g. a Nike ad next to a post complaining about Hispanics)
Reddit has a new algorithm, where ads are deliberately disabled on /r/all whenever a T_D post is on the page. Presumably to appease advertisers/discourage these screenshots
This comment says you can still complain to advertisers, uses some example text you can send to a company to let them know what's going on (and frames it in a way that shows reddit admin is being deceitful)
๐๏ธ ghqwertt ยท 1832 points ยท Posted at 12:34:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Perfect summary!
You only left out one thing: thanks to the new algorithm, people on hateful subs now get a better Reddit experience than everyone else. No ads!
thanks to the new algorithm, people on hateful subs now get a better Reddit experience than everyone else.
So they are using a product for free while the rest of us help to pay for it (by seeing and presumably occasionally clicking on ads). Reddit is therefore actively subsidizing hatred on its public forums.
Hey /u/spez! Whatโs the April fools gimmick going to be this year?? I hope itโs something that sends a feel good positive message that can really sell some good ad space.
[deleted] ยท 213 points ยท Posted at 16:59:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
So we just need to Steve Huffman Reddit snoo Nazi Nazis white supremacists supremacy alt right Steve Huffman people black gay hate noose Russia Vladimir Putin Donald Steve Huffman aided and abetted Charlottesville Trump collusion Jews money laundering Steve Huffman in the butt, and we'll be helping?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:16:06 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Are you saying Steve Huffman supports white supremacists?
Are you meaning to say that STEVE HUFFMAN could be possibly linked with WHITE NATIONALISM? It'd be horrible if a link between STEVE HUFFMAN and WHITE NATIONALISM was made for example by search engines due to many people connecting STEVE HUFFMAN and WHITE NATIONALISM in posts.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:48:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit is waaaaaay more communist that white nationalist, yet everyone seems to ignore that little tidbit.
Would be nice if it put ads in such a way that it ruined their experience. Like huge ads that block the screen, popups, ads for fake things, or things that trigger them.
Dear lord, because reddit isn't actively harassing T_D members, they support their message? Perhaps it's you guys who are overzealously trying to attack anyone who has a different opinion than you? Going as far as seeking censorship and physical harm on people you disagree with?
Fucking pathetic is what I'd call the general tone in this comment chain.
Reddit has a few problems. But I think some of the problems can be each other's solution.
See, here's what the admins should do: They should take T_D and SRS and merge them together into a single sub (or somehow echo every post and comment in each to the other)
Then just hand out popcorn and other snacks to everyone else as we watch what happens. :)
I'm not a big fan of the red state blue state thing, personally, but your point is well taken. Many of the less populated states are heavily dependent on the larger states for their continued existence, but that's a consequence of specialized production in the country as a whole. If each state had to survive more independently, we'd all be worse off. That interdependence and specialization is part of what makes America strong in the first place.
"People who have differing opinions of me are literally nazis and everything they do is nothing but hatred (as defined by me), so we have to take physical action to make sure they can't talk in a public forum, even though they literally are confined to their own space that no one else can see unless they literally enter that space."
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:45:31 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well for one, I've never even visited T_D because you literally don't even see it unless you're subscribed to it. Two, I'm not the one crying to advertisers to try to strong-arm the admins into censoring people I disagree with, nor do I support any censorship of people for differing political opinions.
Rahbek23 ยท 355 points ยท Posted at 13:03:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That is likely because the latter says nothing about what it is about in the name and if I just see that name I'd probably assume it's a sports team or something. The first is much more blunt, but also something I'd check out to see what that is about.
๐๏ธ ghqwertt ยท 442 points ยท Posted at 13:09:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Fair point, but I think the bigger problem was that the rules were too onerous. We required that people report the posts, use archive links, etc. (I just simplified the rules, but maybe I should shut it down instead.)
I'm now thinking I would love to play a video game called Sleeping Giants.
Maybe kind of like Zelda: Breath of the Wild, but with a hearty dose of Shadow of the Collossus mixed in. BotW already had some influences from that game, would be interesting to see it pushed even moreso.
kryonik ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:15:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Thousands of years ago, giants roamed the planet and wherever they strode, they left fertility in their wake. Then one day, an evil sorcerer infected them all with a magical plague, siphoning off the magical energy from their hearts, causing them to fall into an indefinite hibernation. Life around the world gradually faded away and the myth of the giants has been forgotten by almost everyone. The bodies sleeping giants have been obscured by the ravages of time, swallowed by forests, covered by lava, fallen into the sea or lost in the desert. Your mission is to find the giants, fight off the sorcerer's evil forces, delve into the bodies of the giants, remove the plague and restart their hearts to bring back life to a dying planet.
Hinox are so lame. Just run between their legs and spin around with a greatsword.
Lynels are freaking scary though, I got destroyed by a White-Maned Lynel while wandering around. Couldn't even beat it with cheese tactics. I've leveled up a bit, just got the Master Sword and 2 Great Faries, gonna try again.
SynthD ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 13:26:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
One sub I learned about via stop advertising is the great awakening which seems to be about a microblog from a mole inside the deep state while they manipulate the media and various other claims exactly as t_d wants to see. Itโs a pretty crap name and doesnโt represent the crock of shit it is.
That sub is where CBTS_stream(banned sub) refugees went. White nationalists are experienced in finding out how to self censor just enough to be allowed to spread their ideas.
White nationalists are experienced in finding out how to self censor just enough to be allowed to spread their ideas.
"No, no, Mr. Huffman. We swear. We got rid of all of the people that want to murder all of the muslims and jews. Now we only have people that want to imprison the muslims and jews. That's not against the rules, right? Whatever happened to free speech?!"
White nationalists are experienced in finding out how to self censor just enough to be allowed to spread their ideas.
That's easy to see but it isn't exclusive to white racists. You'll see religious extremists doing very similar things on here as well as some of the non-white racist subs.
Nah, that's where the Stargate is and it's risky to have anything else too close. The lizard people just pump their wastewater up to make you think the water table is high. I mean, think about it, would anyone ever live in Kansas if they weren't puppets of the deep lizard state?
So you're saying that the Cornhuskers were originally called the Bugeaters for a reason and they pump their wastewater to Kansas and that's why they were fighting about the amount of water in the Republican River?
SynthD ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:18:47 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Good question. The most generous answer I can give is the non elected parts of senior state department officials. The permanent under secretarys.
I think it's mad to think that, but it's the sanest thing I can think of for a deep state with actionable power.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:55:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Wrongthinks friend.
Remember ignorance is power.
SynthD ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:44:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Oh is that why right wing parties are in power in US and UK.
Android. For the record you can't install anything on iPhone unless you go through the Apple store, which Apple of course controls, and basically you can't have adblock on an iPhone.
In case you were wondering what the big problem was, it's Apple. Apple is the problem.
FireFox Focus blocks ads on iOS and there are almost certainly more that do too. It's on AppStore and very prominently displays it does block ads, Apple isn't outright blocking Ad blockers at all.
Really a lot can be done when you are on home wi-fi router. Recipe to keep those pesky ads, tracking sites etc away:
There is software, called Pi-Hole which can be installed onto obsolete older laptop, office machine etc. After installation point DNS of home router to that machine and voila: Pi-Hole will filter all requests to those pesky servers out and flatly deny them.
It was (at begin) made for Raspberry Pi but now it runs on most of linux distros. It is free as in free beer and is awesome.
You can also buy a $30 raspberry pi and set up Pi-hole. It is VERY easy to set up. If you were able to setup/change your wifi password, you can set up an entire adblocker for your home.
Sleeping Giants was never really a Reddit sub to begin with, so it makes sense that it would peter out.
The_NZA ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:03:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Sleeping Giants helped raise awareness that my marketing team was accidentally advertising on Breitbart (we thought we had blacklisted it from all our stuff but we had only blackilsted it from a portion of our campaigns).
Lots42 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:10:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The Sleeping Giants Twitter is still getting results
How can you justify telling an advertiser you won't support them if they advertise on their site, but still have no qualms using the site. Seems hypocritical to me
Theoretically advertisers would put pressure on reddit to ban those subs since hate or no hate, removing ads from those communities reduces the reach of the ads they pay for.
To be clear, I very much dislike The_Donald. Moderators from that sub actually participated in a hostile takeover of /r/GaryJohnson, a sub I moderate during the election cycle. Admins promptly restored control to the original moderators, but the incident made it quite clear that some of these people are not very nice. A few of them are known to have participated in active attempts to disrupt discussion in other libertarian-leaning subs in the past as well. I'd be in favor of those people being banned for targeted harassment and breaking reddit.
What I'm not for is heavy-handed editorial control of content. One of the things that gave reddit a big boost over its more established competitor at the time, Digg, was the release of the HD-DVD encryption key. Digg censored it, while reddit did not in spite of some potential for legal liability. Many users defected and stayed.
Racist Trump supporters are far from the only thing on reddit that might be distasteful to advertisers. Today it's The_Donald. Tomorrow it's WatchPeopleDie. Next year, it's /r/WTF and eventually all we have left is /r/kittens. I love kittens, but reddit is also about zombie dogs even if that might scare off an advertiser or two.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:37:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Ahh yes the slippery slope argument... that's been right all of never.
Zak ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:52:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I don't agree, and I've been on reddit long enough to observe it.
For a long time, reddit's content policy was pretty hands-off. That has changed, and /r/stopadvertising is actively pushing to change it more. It's absolutely possible that some of the same people will find other content objectionable and successfully apply similar pressure.
Do we want a heckler's veto for content on reddit?
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:18:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You've been on reddit long enough to observe a change in society in general and the inevitable consequence of wider acceptance. Your argument directly equates removing Hatespeech with opening access to removing Kittens, because you like hyperbole and because you don't have a real argument other than the patently false slippery slope argument.
There are thousands of sites with thriving communities who do it all while not giving a platform for hatespeech and neonazi rhetoric. That you would equate an organized protest of this explicit support and liken it to us wanting to remove innocuous subreddits is the worst kind of disingenuous clap I can imagine.
Reddit does not need to protect all kinds of speech to be successful. Our protest is that it is time for Reddit to get in the saddle and actually draw the line in the sand. Either use that Quarantine, that ban, or update the rules, but stop pretending to their investors and their advertisers that they are a welcoming community. Reddit suffers from the Paradox of Tolerance.
Zak ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:16:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think you misread. I did not imply the removal of /r/kittens - rather, I implied that it would be the only thing left once everything potentially unpalatable to advertisers is removed. Everybody loves kittens, after all. You are however correct that it was hyperbole.
What I'm more concerned about is things like the recent banning of /r/gundeals. While some of the last round of content policy changes were likely motivated by the passage of FOSTA, that doesn't appear to apply to guns at all, so the motivation is most likely that facilitating the sale of guns and accessories is distasteful to advertisers.
It's similarly possible that /r/guns, /r/lockpicking, /r/HowToHack or any of many other potentially controversial subs could become targets. There's already a "boycott the NRA" movement. It's not a big stretch from that to "get gun content off social platforms".
I'd actually be OK with significantly expanded use of quarantine. Better still would be broad use of a milder version that keeps content off /r/all but doesn't block unregistered users.
Isnโt Kushnerโs family somehow related to reddit financially?
mvenice1 ยท 515 points ยท Posted at 12:44:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Wait. So Reddit not only does nothing about T_D but they actually change their money making algorithm to not show ads when T_D may be ranked highly??
Thatโs more than being negligent. That is pushing their platform. Wtf? I read that jared kushners uncle owned a firm that owns a lot of Reddit but choose to not let it bother me at the time. But wtf Reddit?
Sedric ยท 256 points ยท Posted at 13:10:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Complicit AF. I'm waiting for the day the attention from media shifts to reddit and questions are being asked. Facebook thought they were invincible too.
aiken_ ยท 129 points ยท Posted at 14:05:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Facebook has a lot more power and a better brand name than Reddit. Reddit is about halfway between Facebook and 4Chan, as far as being OK with extreme content.
So nevermind media attention... Reddit is setting itself up to be the poster child for โinternet sites make money by radicalizing the right wing, and wonโt self regulate, so we need to get involvedโ congressional inquiries.
Some folks find the First Amendment icky and gross.
aiken_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:21:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously? They've summoned Tim Cook to explain Apple's tax treatment, Facebook has turned over data to an inquiry into Russian election tampering, and the heads of JPMorgan, Citibank, and Wells Fargo over financial questions.
When the inevitable t_d nut finally engages in the violence the sub often fetishizes, you think Congress is going to be like "oh, Reddit, that bastion of free speech... we can't possibly ask any questions of them"?
At least learn what a strawman is before you try to sound smarter than your GED level brain. They have 0 grounds to call up any CEO who doesnโt censor controversial opinions.
Just because you donโt agree with their opinions doesnโt make them violent. If you truly cared about shutting down violent subreddits the_donald wouldnโt be your only target.
Your argument appears to be "TD doesn't include literal calls for violence... ok maybe there's some but... other people do it too" is that about the shape of it? If so do I really need to point out the flaws?
Reddit is setting itself up to be the poster child for โinternet sites make money by radicalizing the right wing, and wonโt self regulate, so we need to get involvedโ congressional inquiries.
"Self regulate" what? Political speech? "So we need to get involved" in what, regulating political speech?
Again, on what grounds does Congress have the right to do this?
Your examples are irrelevant. Tax policy, election tampering, and the financial system are all issues that fall under Congressional control in some for or another. Political speech does not.
aiken_ ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:21:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Again, apples and oranges. Which of those instances involved hearings on a subject that Congress has no authority to regulate? Congress has no authority to regulate speech, it's a pretty central aspect of our system of government. That you and others are failing to comprehend that fact leads to one of two conclusions, and neither are good.
aiken_ ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:20:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Why are you imagining all of that?
The 9/11 inquiries included all sorts of testimony from and about telecom.
The fact that Congress cannot regulate speech does not mean that they cannot ask companies what their procedures are for reporting child pornography or terrorist organizing.
There's tons of precedent here. Why are you so threatened by my speculation that 1) violent acts will likely be traced back to radicalization on Reddit, specifically t_d, and 2) the investigations after those facts will likely look into whether Reddit intentionally turned a blind eye to terroristic threats?
You can think I'm wrong; that t_d is all blowhards who don't mean the violent things they say. But why the straw man and naive nonsense?
The 9/11 inquiries included all sorts of testimony from and about telecom.
The fact that Congress cannot regulate speech does not mean that they cannot ask companies what their procedures are for reporting child pornography or terrorist organizing.
Child pornography and terrorist organizing are both crimes. Saying "I really hate..." or "Hey let's put all the .... in camps" are not, setting aside for a minute that the things being said in that subreddit do not even rise to that level, so far as I'm aware.
There's tons of precedent here. Why are you so threatened by my speculation that 1) violent acts will likely be traced back to radicalization on Reddit, specifically t_d, and 2) the investigations after those facts will likely look into whether Reddit intentionally turned a blind eye to terroristic threats?
First of all, I'm not threatened by anything past what is either your ignorance or your authoritarianism. Furthermore, the "precedence" you've so far cited has not been related to the thing you're talking about. I can cite precedence that is: Both Seung-Hui Cho (the Virginia Tech shooter) and Adam Lanza (The Sandy Hook Elementary shooter) posted on 4chan what they were about to do before they did it. The founder and at that time owner of 4chan was never dragged before a Congressional committee. While true that SESTA was not in place, it also remains to be seen if it will survive the legal challenges which are sure to be pending.
I like how he downvoted you and didn't respond lmao. Like he really thought he had you when he started talking down to you like you were naive and dumb but you literally ended his discussion with this comment
Not saying this would or should trigger a congressional inquiry in particular but their users have made numerous posts encouraging acts of violence, which is not Constitutionally protected speech.
It's not protected if it poses a clear and present danger of imminent harm. You're going to have a really hard time proving that unless someone makes a post and someone acts upon it a few minutes later, specifically citing the post as their rationale.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:58:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
free speech in public areas. you could make the argument that reddit is private property and therefore can allow or disallow any speech they choose.
Zak ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:08:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Congress cannot compel reddit to disallow protected speech.
Iwasthey ยท -24 points ยท Posted at 15:19:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This sums up and kills this BS thread. T_D is not "alt-right". There is no such thing as "alt-right". There is however, a country full of hard-working, patriotic American men and women who love the USA, The Constitution and will support and defend the rights and freedoms created by their forefathers. America Is the shiny beacon all other countries wish they could be. https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/ is simply a reflection of that. Stop by sometime..
I mean, you're not wrong. But not for good reasons.
KashEsq ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:54:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This sums up and kills this BS thread. T_D is not "alt-right". There is no such thing as "alt-right". There is however, a country full of hard-working, patriotic American men and women who love the USA, The Constitution and will support and defend the rights and freedoms created by their forefathers. America Is the shiny beacon all other countries wish they could be. https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/ is simply a reflection of that. Stop by sometime..
Hahahaha good one...oh wait, you were being serious?
So you are choosing to ignore the indictment against the Russians for spreading propaganda on Reddit, Facebook and Twitter to influence our elections? And ignoring Cambridge Analytica and Facebook story about how they stole personal information to sell it to propaganda sources? And choosing to ignore the year long investigation which has revealed all of this?
How many Russians were indicted? Are they responsible for every single political opinion you find distasteful? You're also misrepresenting the nature of the Cambridge Analytica scandal.
I'm not denying any of this took place, I'm denying that it is responsible for the entirety of the opinions you don't like, because it isn't. To assert that it is is laughable.
You're also ignoring the revelations about Russian involvement in leftist causes. I assume intentionally. Are all leftist political views now suspect, too? Or is that reserved for just the views you personally disagree with?
The demonstration in New York City, which took place a few days after the election, appears to be the largest and most successful known effort to date pulled off by Russian-linked groups intent on using social media platforms to influence American politics.
Sixteen thousand Facebook users said that they planned to attend a Trump protest on Nov. 12, 2016, organized by the Facebook page for BlackMattersUS, a Russian-linked group that sought to capitalize on racial tensions between black and white Americans. The event was shared with 61,000 users.
Largest and most successful known effort to date pulled off by Russian-linked groups
So by applying your logic, I can now say that everyone who has ever protested against Donald Trump is spreading foreign propaganda. Neat trick, huh?
Eventually there is going to be a high profile right wing terrorist whose radicalization is linked directly to Reddit and Reddit is going to be in some deep shit. As things stand right now, this is more a question of when than if. Reddit is sitting on a massive time bomb and seems totally unconcerned.
luquaum ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:15:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe Reddit can traverse the scandals better because they've been through it or maybe they're overly confident because they beat it before. I think it's too early to tell how Reddit ends.
It's really hard to ban a subreddit for hate speech because many subs have hate speech and policing it is difficult. You don't want to ban innocent subs who are the victims of hate speech rather than the instigators.
You have to be mindful of the fact that T_D is still the "primary" Donald Trump community on reddit, and censoring that by default will result in terrible press. They're pretty much stuck between a rock and a hard place where the banning of T_D results in tons of backlash from both outside and inside the site, and leaving it alone only results in backlash from inside the site.
censoring that by default will result in terrible press.
I think it would be great press, honestly.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:50:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I agree. Reddits a San Francisco company. Almost nobody voted for Trump here. Aside from techno-libertarian-asshole Peter Thiel, investors would only be happy with this. Do they really care if they get a bad segment or two on Fox News?
I donโt even consider removal of hate speech and conversation leading to people losing their lives bc of the violence incited by this community as censorship.
T_D is not a political subreddit. Admittedly I donโt frequent that part of Reddit but Iโve never seen a political discussion originating there. Itโs just hate, racism, violence, and discussion on who their targets should be. I liked that analogy from the other day reddit:T_D :: target:the KKK section of the store. Target would remove a klan section if some rogue manager made one. They wouldnโt be chastised over hindering free speech. They would probably get a bump in stock value that day.
Iโd also support removing an antifa subreddit that discussed similar topics.
A lot of people like to say itโs best to keep them there bc otherwise they will just go make 100 other subs. I donโt agree with this. Let them make others. Just remove them too. Push these assholes back into the void they hid in until trump gave them a voice. Collectively we have been pushing these ideas to the fringe and punishing people who act on hate for years. Why is it considered a violation of free speech just bc itโs on the internet?
I live in the Midwest and know a whole lot of conservatives. They donโt talk or think like T_D.
"OH MY GOD! WHAT ABOUT ALL OF THE LIBERAL HATE?! WHY CAN'T YOU FIND 50 EXAMPLES OF THE OTHER SIDE CALLING FOR FORCIBLE REMOVAL OR MAKING THREATS OF VIOLENCE AGAINST THOSE WHO DISAGREE?! WHY IS THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA SO UNFAIR TO CONSERVATIVES?!"
To be fair both extremes of the political spectrum do that to each other. More accurately, they do that to the strawman that they think represents the other side.
You're getting downvoted because we're literally talking about a Trump community on Reddit, which means a chunk of his voter base comes from here, but you're also acting like only Fox News viewers voted for Trump.
An ugly truth you need to internalize is that many of Trump's voters came from Reddit's own STEM grad white collar voting base. Funny how being the only one with money turns you Republican.
KashEsq ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 18:56:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Funny how being the only one with money turns you Republican.
The wealthy blue states beg to differ
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:28:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
TD already stylizes themselves a victim on Reddit, that changes nothing. The OP was clearly insinuating that TD being banned would be used by the (much larger by about 60 million+ people) Republican voter base as proof they are being victimized.
The TD brigade in this thread is obvious as fuck anyways, I'm being downvoted because those salty snowflakes feelings are hurt.
Except receiving higher education correlates with being liberal, and college isnโt cheap
taws34 ยท 43 points ยท Posted at 14:59:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Right. It's like the headline: "Combat veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan deported to Mexico". Just enough to rile up a lot of people... But then you see "He was caught trafficking 20lbs of cocaine, accepted plea deal" and your outrage goes away.
kciuq1 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:38:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Only one out of the top 10 links on the front page right now even links to /r/politics. One person complaining that they don't like Breitbart and has a couple of upvotes.
Sounds to me like that sub is starved for content and had to expand the scope.
With how much hate they get I wouldn't be surprised if most of this is just an agent provocateur. Many people would do such a thing to further their political agenda.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 17:20:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
How are they hateful? Go find me an example from today.
/r/againsthatesubreddits has you covered. they've got a whole list of things from the past few months, i'd be surprised if they didn't have a thread with stuff from today.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:06:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Cherry picked comments that are mostly deleted. I have been there. That subreddit is toxic.
I mean, the fact that there are so many of those comments that have to be deleted is pretty worrying.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:37:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
2nd most active subreddit on the whole website so yes there is lots of comments.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 17:10:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
and yet you can find far more of this hate in the commie subs along with the 100's of anti trump subs, stop advertising itself and many more leftist subs. You people only censor what you don't like and its funny yet sad as you don't even realize the double standards you run by.
As a leftist, liberals aren't leftist. But I see your point.
By not understanding the other
I 100% understand where they're coming from. Some Trump supporters genuinely thought he would do right by them. I have no ill will towards those individuals who were tricked (although not much more than ones who voted for any candidate). It's the hateful, xenophobic ones I disdain
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:26:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
As a leftist, liberals aren't leftist. But I see your point.
I agree. Leftist are insaine and liberals have some sense left.
It's the hateful, xenophobic ones I disdain
heh, I am going to bet you think a majority are 'hateful xenophobes'. BTW, wanting to protect our borders is not hateful or xenophobic, but you will never use any logic anyway.
Leftist are a cancer on the US, you fucks are pushing marxist ideals that would destroy our country faster than venezuela has been...
What happened to understanding the other side?? You have a lot of vitriol now.
Other than that, you didn't make an actual argument in reply to me. More personal attacks about a label than anything else.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:52:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What happened to understanding the other side?? You have a lot of vitriol now.
Well, I understand leftist and that includes leftist political history which has a track record of 110 million dead via purges and government creeds directly pushed by your style of collective goverment.
Thus, vitral is appropriate since your ideals are so horrible you should be at least shocked into actualy thinking about your ideals.
Most leftist ideals are utopian and go against human nature. For that reason your leftist ideals will never work and every time they are tired, they directly cause millions of deaths.
Other than that, you didn't make an actual argument in reply to me. More personal attacks about a label than anything else.
That is because nothing I say, no facts, no history or anything will get through to you. Collectivists are like that and I have stopped trying to argue with your ilk long ago, especially on reddit since so many leftists reside here that it just makes it too easy for you to step inside your circlejerk bubble and never come out.
There is no common ground between us because our ideals are collectivist (you) vs individualist (me). They are fundamentally so diffrent that we are not working to the same goal and thus can't really discuss anything in earnest until we settle the individual vs collective debate, somthing that will never happen on reddit so long as people want handouts and people want to be left alone.
The 'hundred million dead' myth has been debunked.. Even mathematically it would've been impossible in the USSR. Besides, a collective government doesn't intently necessitate any of that.
Most leftist ideas are utopian
Right. We agree on that. I shit on anarchists for thinking the Utopia is achievable seemingly overnight. Marx himself said communism is utopian. As far as human nature is concerned communism is closer to egalitarian societies that existed in most native American tribes.
If you think there's no common ground I gurantee you haven't made a single, honest attempt at understanding a leftist. Individualism vs collectivism is but a minor role that I think you're overreacting about. Of course they're opposites but you'll never come to any agreements calling yourself individualistic instead of being open minded.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:38:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The 'hundred million dead' myth has been debunked.. Even mathematically it would've been impossible in the USSR. Besides, a collective government doesn't intently necessitate any of that.
hahahaha, this is holocaust denial level shit.
BTW, the USSR was not the only communist goverment to kill its people.
Right. We agree on that. I shit on anarchists for thinking the Utopia is achievable seemingly overnight. Marx himself said communism is utopian. As far as human nature is concerned communism is closer to egalitarian societies that existed in most native American tribes.
no. this is so wrong its laughable. Communism can never be a thing because of human nature. It promotes mediocrity, it collapses systems and gets taken over easily by dictators.
If you think there's no common ground I gurantee you haven't made a single, honest attempt at understanding a leftist. Individualism vs collectivism is but a minor role that I think you're overreacting about. Of course they're opposites but you'll never come to any agreements calling yourself individualistic instead of being open minded.
I am an open minded individuals, sorry, but I will never accept you making a decision over me simply because I am in the same group as you. You don't know what is best for me individually.
These two ideologies are fundamentally incompatible.
And socialist (read: not communist) countries aren't the only ones with civilian death tolls in the millions. There are millions dying preventable deaths within a year for to capitalists pricing basic necessities out of reach.
It seems like you haven't done any research into what communism actually IS. If you're really interested in what 'human nature' consists of I think you'd enjoy reading Kropotkin's 'Mutual Aid'
If you think I, an individual, can make a decision then you have yet again proven how fundamentally flawed your understanding of communism is.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:26:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
yet capitalism has raised billions out of poverty to the point where china is no longer the ultra communist state it was.
There are millions dying preventable deaths within a year for to capitalists pricing basic necessities out of reach.
This is a dumb argument. That is not people being killed because of their goverment, that is people dying because resources are scarce. Welcome to all of human history child.
It seems like you haven't done any research into what communism actually IS. If you're really interested in what 'human nature' consists of I think you'd enjoy reading Kropotkin's 'Mutual Aid'
Holy fuck, how are you this dumb? I have done plenty of research into marxist ideals, yet you are the only one here who does not seem to understand it and blindly support the worst political ideology ever devised.
If you think I, an individual, can make a decision then you have yet again proven how fundamentally flawed your understanding of communism is.
You no, but you want the goverment, which would include people who think like you, to do that. You really don't have any idea what you are talking about. go read up on history and stop drinking the propaganda kool aid.
I'm done with your brand of stupid. I hope you and all marxists who want to ruin our country have a very bad day.
On the back of other billions, yes. It's exploitation, not a hard work ethic.
Dumb argument
Maybe back when these things were readily available and industrialized. Nowadays, nobody should have to pay for food, water, or healthcare. But when there's a profit to be made...
plenty of research
Marxism itself is a critique of capitalism, not a government or economic system. Which books have you read by marxists, specifically? Or do you get your 'Marxist ideals' through capitalist sources?
The government would include the same people it does today. It would just work differently.
I'm done with your brand
Ah, I do recall saying you never seriously attempted to get to know a leftist
z500 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:29:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Worse press than leaving that shithole where it is? They should ban his fan subs and keep banning them until they either learn to behave or go elsewhere. Fuck them.
Define behave? As far as the constitution of the United States is concerned, you should behave and respect your political opponentsโ rights there, cupcake. But we all know you arenโt going to. As long as you keep your derangement on the internet where nobody cares what you think, I guess you can continue to rave like a lunatic.
Stupid idea: add admins to the t_d mod team to change the SR rules to allow any discussion of DT that falls within site rules (including actively enforcing site rules against hate speech) and let actual free speech sort that shit out. Pretty sure everybody there would scatter once they learned it was no longer an echo chamber. It wouldn't be "censored", it'd be the literal opposite. You'd probably still get internal backlash from subreddit meddling, but outside backlash would probably get lost in the nuances (they killed it? It's still there.).
Please stop justifying their existence by claiming they're the only Donald sub. Other Donald subs tried to exist but the_donald brigades them and turns them to shit. How about enforcing a real presidential sub? Where thoughtful discussion us allowed.
Yeah I mean on one hand you have terrible press because youโre allowing a community of white trash lower and middle class young men to be turned into racist murdering extremists. On the other youโll have press talking about how you banned a group of white trash lower and middle class young men who were being turned into racist murdering extremists.
I think the reasonable approach from Reddit would be to not ban the Donald, but to enforce the site wide rules regarding hate speech and brigading. If they were to do that I might be more sympathetic to their position. As it is, though, TD is put on a pedestal and the users are not held to the standards to which the rest of the Reddit community adheres. The immunity TD is given allows them to push the envelope of radicalism that is eroding the national dialogue. They're a flagship of toxic political propaganda and Reddit is not only complicit, they're actually enabling them through inaction.
Yup. There are several subreddits that are on this list, which means they know fully well they're hosting disgusting content that would get advertisers to pull ads. It's a ploy to keep taking advertiser money but prevent people from being able to send screenshots of racist and sexist shit next to ads, something they've made explicitly clear they don't want people doing.
The company that owns Condรฉ Nast - which is reddit's parent company - is run by a family who have been connected with and supported Trump in the past. One of the patriarchs, in fact, encouraged Trump to write "Art of the Deal".
Do you really want to spill td users everywhere by banning the one place they can be monitored in? Ban the sub and 100 will replace it with little to no moderation whatsoever with huge uproar by a extreme and loud crowd.
This is a total lose-lose for reddit. Best they can do is to try containing them.
Do you really want to spill td users everywhere by banning the one place they can be monitored in? Ban the sub and 100 will replace it with little to no moderation whatsoever with huge uproar by a extreme and loud crowd.
Well, that's not what happened when they banned coontown, fatpeoplehate, etc.
I dont believe that for a second. They are not something we could just get rid of or hide under the carpet. They are there and they must be studied more. Containing them for easy observation is one of the best methods to help dilute the problem in the future.
That is incorrect, at least it did not happen when they've banned all other hateful subs. And there's one research paper that concludes that they do stop people from radicalizing.
Dlrlcktd ยท 83 points ยท Posted at 14:30:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You also forgot something from the Admin user redditads
While we fully support you in expressing protest toward Reddit, weโve observed consistent use of fabricated screenshots in your public and private outreach to advertisers.
Yeah screenshots are meaningless and hard to verify with the way the aggregation works. You could craft a screenshot with all the vile racist or sexual stuff you want with X advertiser and they'd have no way to verify the page actually displayed it the way you've shown.
HBlight ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:06:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
On top of that, they wont know what to look for, a screenshot of a post that has 5 upvotes after 13 hours that proclaims the superiority of catapults or a post of the same but only posted 3 minutes ago by the person taking the screenshot. Might be easy for someone not reddit-savvy to miss those details if they are even included in the screenshot at all.
ekdaemon ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 00:43:37 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
and they'd have no way to verify the page actually displayed it the way you've shown
You sure about that?
I'm certain if I wanted to I could log back to the server exactly what things were displayed and how on a page.
meguin ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 15:57:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I find it telling that redditads mentions "consistent use" but only came up with one link.
I find it telling that multiple mods try to talk to the admin on the thread (knowing that reddit isnโt going to publicly argue with them) instead of doing it in private. Iโm not a mod or anything but I assume messaging the admins is probably how you resolve the issue.
meguin ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:30:57 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, the reddit admin also made a public post instead of messaging the mods. I'm not ready to believe that either side is operating completely truthfully.
What I meant was that people from outside of the sub could easily come in and spread the misinformation now in the hopes of getting the sub shut down , seeing as to how they've already been given a warning
So, theyโre confirming that the rest of us are subsidizing the hate subs with our regular viewing while those guys get a free ride? How the hell do they think thatโs an acceptable position?
Here is a hint, Reddit admins. If you have to hide a subreddit from your advertisers maybe thatโs a sign you have a problem?
psiphre ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:56:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
so basically in order to not see ads, i just need to subscribe to /r/the_donald
So a chrome extension that subscribed but auto hides d_t posts would force Reddit to act...like adblock but Reddit specific and by allowing redit to change their approach should make more of a difference than just blocking ads on reddit
psiphre ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:26:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If theyโre not doing things that are illegal, such as inciting violence, why is everyone so eager to see their speech censored? I never visit T_D, so they have no effect on me. In a free and open society there are all kinds of terrible opinions expressed; and terrible people should remain free to express them. Just because some ideas are abhorrent doesnโt mean we should try to curtail free expression.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 18:34:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
I can't speak for everyone. My main thing is that I can compare reddit before and after t_d. Before t_d, whatever, there were awful people around, but kind of in the background, or just kind of mildly shitty.
I mean, when t_d started, it was treated as a joke. It was basically 4chan- a place where shitty people masturbated each other and ironic people slummed.
Then it got huge, and increasingly toxic. It became this weird concentrator, an echo chamber where the more you engaged with it, the worse it (and you got).
This isn't unique to t_d, echo chambers in general do this. What makes t_d worse is the level of extremes it reaches, the complete lack of self-awareness or decency, and just the level of... energy, I suppose. It's like a subreddit that got infected with rabies.
I get that. But my question is still, so what? People are offended. And? Does anything posted there cause Redditors physical harm? No one has to visit T_D. In fact, Reddit allows users to filter subs so they never see that content. But just because some users find it abhorrent, thatโs enough of a reason to want it censored? I donโt understand the jump from โI donโt like that contentโ to โThat content should be forbidden.โ To me, this is a worrying trend in society that rather than accepting that free speech inevitably comes with offensive speech, people now want those in power - be they governments or corporations - to decide what people can say so that everyone can go through life never being offended.
Kektus ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:51:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Preach it from the goddamn mountaintops, please. We need more people to look at this situation in the way that you do. I hate their guts but I do not wish them silenced. I also hate the people throwing around the word "Nazi" as if it has any meaning left with all the times it's been misused. Imo, T_D is the Reddit version of 4chan's /pol/. There's only so much nonsense I can take.
That would be because /pol/ created them, it also created the kekistan meme as a joke(that's why the kekistan flag is a green kriegsmarine flag with clover leaves) but "normies" took it way too seriously and now we have the cringefests that they are today. It's funny because even /pol/ hares on T_D.
you're conveniently forgetting that the_dumbass heavily promoted a rally where a woman was murdered by one of their subscribers or that a popular the_dumbass poster killed his own father because he thought they were "leftists".
Half the anger over td not being banned is the incosistent of re. For a non-political example, at least one hentai sub focused on the petite has been banned because they were supposably loli based, not illegal in the US unlike say murder. Hell Reddit mods let literal drug trading subreddit stay up.
And because of their bot situation, posts that call for this which would get downvote blasted to oblivion and reported in other subs get hyperinflated "to the top" which gives users there the false impression that there are hundreds, and maybe thousands of people that support the idea of using violence before mods get wind of it and delete the post.
It was allowed to be promoted it for like a week, a little bit. Then when they had more information about who was putting it on and who would be there that was reversed and for like 2 weeks they were warning people not to go.
The absolute extreme on the donald are people who want the law to be followed and mass deportations to happen. They are a minority. A lot more of us have an understanding of freedom and violence and we are not gonna let anyone even put in place the infrastructure to forcibly detain and move millions of people.
You people just make shit up about a Domreddit you don't frequent and then will argue your fantasies with people who do.
I think that it's easy to talk about the slippery slope.
The difference here, I think, is that t_d isn't just "some political subreddit." There are plenty of right-wing subs on reddit. I've been on plenty of them, and while there are often views that I strongly disagree with there, t_d is the only subreddit that makes me think of the word "frothing."
This exchange is poignant. OP says the impulse to prohibit speech purely because it's distasteful is a worrying trend with a terrible historical pedigree. You reply with basically "yeah, but I really don't like it" as if it's a counter argument. You completely miss the point.
there are often views that I strongly disagree with there, t_d is the only subreddit that makes me think of the word "frothing."
To reiterate op: so what? You don't like t_d. I dislike it too. Just block the sub and move on.
To be honest, I've responded so many times on this thread that I've definitely lost track of what I said to whom. I try to keep each post self-contained, but... shrug.
Anyway, at some point I said something along the lines of "Those points above were some logical arguments against it, here are my personal thoughts."
Which, like you said, basically boil down to "I really don't like it." Although I also said that there was a qualitative difference- T_D is not like other subs. I used "frothing" on purpose, it honestly is the only sub that seems like it has rabies.
But yeah, "I don't like it" and "It's weirdly different, right? Like, it's like meeting a guy on the bus who has a really intense look in his eyes, and his head movement is just slightly off" are not good reasons to ban a sub on its own.
For what it's worth, I do honestly think that it is destructive- both to its subscribers and to the general world at large. It makes people worse versions of themselves, and it makes the world a more toxic place.
What specific set of criteria, in your view, justify the banning of t_d but don't also necessitate the same treatment for other somewhat edgy, non-mainstream political subreddits (r/FULLCOMMUNISM, r/socialism, r/anarchism, etc.). Those subs have called for violence. They are almost certainly 'frothy' (whatever that means).
Your comment implies that I mis-represented your views, but I genuinely don't understand that perspective. Your comment is literally a statement of personal taste. OP's point is the personal taste is irrelevant. So your comment is not responsive to his argument. Where am I misrepresenting you? If you do have a nuanced position on this, I'd love to hear it. For now though, it seems like you just don't like r/the_donald, and you want it gone.
What specific set of criteria, in your view, justify the banning of t_d but don't also necessitate the same treatment for other somewhat edgy, non-mainstream political subreddits
I honestly don't have one. I can say that none of the sites you mentioned seem to have the reach, numbers, or simple toxicity of t_d.
I'm not a reddit lawyer, trying to make an airtight case- others seem to have laundry lists of times t_d has broken site rules. I am just saying that I think everyone will be better off when it's gone.
I get that, and for the record - I definitely understand why its so disliked. I'm not a fan either.
But can you at least acknowledge that others may take issue with you deciding what is and isn't acceptable? That others may not see things as you do? You noted that you believe t_d makes people worse versions of themselves, but that judgement is made through your own set of political and cultural biases. No one is truly neutral, including you.
As for the rule-breaking, I believe reddit's stance is that as long as mod teams work to address such behavior, the sub itself will not be banned. Additionally, subs such as r/anarchism have also broken many site-wide rules - are you saying r/anarchism should be banned? Again, if you aren't ready to enforce rules equally in all cases, there isn't much point in having them in the first place.
Oh yeah of course. Obviously people can disagree. People will be pissed off if reddit deletes the sub for sure, and it won't really be that different a reason in the end.
As someone who is fairly center, I challenge you to try and go read reddit pretending you arenโt left wing and see how toxic it is if you donโt agree with the mindset. Iโve mentioned this before, but I was on the deep sea creatures sub (facts and tidbits about animals living deep in the ocean) and all of a sudden a thread making fun of and insulting right wingers (not even necessarily DT supporters). I responded asking why we have to see politics and insults on every sub, not being able to escape it, and was downvoted to hell.
Iโm not surprised DT sub is what it is. There is not an open dialogue or respect for anybody against the beehive on reddit, and those people will be pushed further and further away, skewing views further and finding their own niche sub where they wonโt be bombarded. Generally speaking, reddit is only civil if you already find yourself left wing.
Kanarkly ยท -16 points ยท Posted at 17:42:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Wanting to treat gay people as equals is not the same as not wanting to treat gay people equally. Sorry, but they arenโt moral equivalents.
Edit: Downvoted for pointing out theyโre not moral equivalents?
You are correct. Reddit is a private company that can do whatever it wants with the data on its servers.
But that doesn't mean people can't have a perspective on the ruleset used to govern their online communities. I'm not sure where in my comment you got the impression that I thought this was a first amendment issue.
[deleted] ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 18:04:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I see this stupid fucking point brought up everyday, which is amazing because it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the first amendment.
There is a difference between free speech as an abstract idea and the first amendment. The First Amendment provides for legal recourse against public entities that restrict speech. Has anyone in the thread called for reddit to be punished by the federal government for its stance on speech? No?
That means that no one is making this a First Amendment issue, by definition.
I can however express that the underlying ideal of freedom of speech - that sunshine is the best disinfectant, rules based on standards of decency or offensiveness are inherently corruptable and inneffective, that strong arguments beat weak arguments - are valid, without invoking the First Amendment.
What do you people not get about this?
[deleted] ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 18:30:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"Free and open society" is an abstract expression of values. It is not an invocation of any specific amendment, let alone the 1st. I'm not sure what else to tell you. You're pointing at the sky and yelling that its red.
If you disagree, than I have some funny questions for you about why don't seem to think the other amendments are necessary for that 'free and open society.' Like, is the 13th necessary?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:40:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There are numerous left winged subs that routinely call for violence and murder against right winged individuals. A few of them actually had to have admins step in and warn them that if they continued, they were literally going to be shut down. These subreddits routinely hit /r/all and include subs like /r/FULLCOMMUNISM and /r/latestagecapitalism
Yet for some fucking reason. T_D is the problem!? The worst the admins had to do for them was warn them against using sticky algorithms to rocket to the top of /r/all.
Point is, I don't think reddit should ban any of them, (unless of course, they actually are preaching messages of violence and it isn't just a few random people in the comments who aren't even upvoted), we have tons of extremists here on reddit and each of them thinks the other shouldn't be allowed to talk.
kilo4fun ยท 54 points ยท Posted at 15:02:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think we should be careful of what we wish for. Look at the overreaching censorship going on with YouTube.
How does the /r/all behavior changing, and attempting to persuade advertisers to pull out from Reddit relate to his comment? (That's not a leading question, I'm genuinely asking in case I missed something)
Does anything posted there cause Redditors physical harm?
I mention that Lane Davis, the man who shot his father for being a "liberal" was a prolific poster on The_Donald and highly influenced by their rhetoric, and that Reddit administration knows this and does nothing about
I don't know how you'd miss it of you read the thread this is linked to.
In fact, Reddit allows users to filter subs so they never see that content.
Even better, the filter was created in response to the complaints about T_D appearing on the front page so frequently. Reddit was actively improved inadvertently because of T_D and yet people still continue to complain in spite of the filter feature being added so they can avoid the content they dislike.
Threats and calls for violence, which are regular on t_d and, in at least a couple of cases, needed by members, are not part of free speech. Their rights end where others' begin, and people's rights to be safe from violence and not be harassed (look at what they say about the Parkland victims, for an easy example) surpass their rights to free speech.
There is a pretty easy line here, avoiding a slippery slope fallacy. When a group has a significant number calling for violence without receiving widespread condemnation (they often have hundreds or more upvotes, and the mods take days to remove them, rather than hours like for things that go against the echo chamber), especially when there are cases in which individuals have actually heeded those calls (such as the man who murdered his father for being a liberal), it needs to stop. You're using an argument that assumes that all speech is inherently equally right and protected, but speech is very real and has real consequences, and when those consequences are violence, it's pretty clear cut.
Do you disagree with Twitter shutting down ISIS recruiting accounts? Like t_d, they are seeking to radicalize individuals to violence. They have had more cases in which they have succeeded, and are backed by a more unified organization, but they share similar purposes and methods. And, in many cases (far right terrorism has always been a bigger issue in the US than Islamic terrorism, except for a single series of events. The Parkland shooter, while not confirmed to be a poster, very much fits the normal profile of a t_d user, as well as cases like have been mentioned previously which were confirmed t_d posters), have led to similar results.
What you're saying makes sense, but you could say that about any subreddit that has been scrutinized and removed. T_D has gotten away with a lot more than other subreddits.
We need to be careful calling it "censorship," because that's specifically referring to the government disallowing certain speech, whereas reddit is a private company.
Reddit should follow their own rules, rules they've applied to many other subreddits in the past, and get rid of T_D.
We need to be careful calling it "censorship," because that's specifically referring to the government disallowing certain speech, whereas reddit is a private company.
We've been over this before, but we'll go ahead and hit it again.
The First Amendment protects you from censorship by the government and only by the government. This is not an oversight. Any law which would provide freedom from censorship from the government but also in any other privately owned space where many gather starts trampling on the rights of others.
Under such a law the argument could be made that your racist uncle has the right to speak his racist mind because it's the family reunion and X amount of people are there.
The same logic applies when you start expecting the majority of Redditors, who are here for jovial conversation, interesting information like the replies in AskScience, and other enriching content, to put up with whoever and whatever wants to use the platform however they see fit. This is unfair.
If you think things are restrictive here, you should see Twitch, where mods will ban you in real time for using too many emotes, and I don't mean Pepe, I mean cute little G-rated ones. Some people just don't like them. The point being that you already have more leeway here than you would get in nearly any public space.
At best, T_D is tiresome and boorish, the loudmouth asshole at the party who is bringing down the entire vibe. At worst, it's an incubator for Nazis, and we have reason to believe that this site has been specifically chosen by literal Nazis - well funded ones - as a recruiting ground, what with all its disaffected young men ripe for the brainwashing.
That's not what most of the people here want to be associated with. If I don't want my racist uncle spouting his nonsense in my house, I should have the right to ask him to leave. The truth is that he should never have held those views in the first place, and his comfort is not my problem, nor should it be.
As always with your tiresome sort, you think that you have some right to offend, or that others have some odd obligation to put up with whatever nonsense spills from your mouth. We do not. This is neither a worrisome, or a new trend.
The truth is that whatever political ideas you have that are worthy of debate have already been advanced one hundred times over. You have said your peice, nobody is obligated to listen to it forever.
More than anything else though, ignoring places like T_D and all the other fucked up subreddits does no good, because while you are happily looking at cat pictures, it will be those subs that find their way onto the news, thus making you guilty by association. Fuck all that. We already have a 4Chan. We don't need another.
Ultimately though, your argument is trash because you expect others to expend energy not being offended no matter how much offensive noise comes their way. But it never crosses your mind that the offensive speaker should expend their own energy being less irksome. They carry all the responsibility of a baby, while the rest of us are expected to just put up with it while they shriek.
Fuck all that.
Take your right wing noise elsewhere. Nobody else is obligated to live on your terms.
Literally nobody mentioned the first amendment in the posts you are responding to. I agree that t_d is cancer but this kind of attack post just makes other people who share your more reasonable opinions look bad. Please stop, for all our sakes.
Syrdon ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 17:12:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit doesn't allow you to filter a subreddit's members' impact on the discussion in other subreddit. If t_ders stayed in t_d, it wouldn't be a problem. But they don't, so it is. Reddit as a whole is a moderated forum, it needs some additional moderation.
Cougah ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:39:20 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What about it being an influential home for impressionable people? I.e. people inciting violence such as the Charlottesville rally or school shootings. Their hatred grows there.
Because it's a breeding ground for radicalism that endorses and promotes violence. No different than an ISIS recruitment page. If not a little less extreme. But same idea.
5k3k73k ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 16:57:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No one has to visit T_D
No one has to visit Nazi Germany but sometimes Nazi Germany visits you.
There is a big difference from "I don't like that content" and "I don't want that content to be allowed" with the donald though.
I don't like the content for a vast majority of subs on this website, but those subs don't simultanously call for genocide, incite violence, make death threats, brigade other subreddits, violate ToS by vote manipulation, and the dozen of other hateful, vile, and disgusting bullshit that goes on in that sub.
Your argument here, to continue with the analogy is like saying that because Target has an Arts and Crafts aisle that you don't particularly like, why can't it have a Nazi and KKK aisle that other people just "don't particularly like."
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:34:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
here's the thing. you're basically tagging people coming from a certain political angle as "awful people". can't you just admit that you get upset when Reddit isn't 100% liberal and people don't just blindly agree with you all the time?
no, it may have been before, but it's all serious now. because the tongue-in-cheek stuff is more like "maybe the holocaust victims deserved it because they were all crisis actors"
Nah, I'm not talking about the hateful racist stuff. But the over-the-top memes and cheerleading are still largely humor. It can be hard to explain if you're not familiar with shitposting on 4chan but it is all just an extension of that.
You remember incorrectly. Fatpeoplehate and coontoown preceded them by years.
Look.at srs or cb from 5 yeara ago
You justdont like it because its your team, of people really cared they would complain about late stage capitalism giving instructions on making napalm and encouraging people to throw them at cops
Illegal? No not necessarily. But they do regularly call for acts of violence which are always given a pass until somebody shines a spotlight on it.
The main issue is per this sites own rules T_D should have been shut down long ago. Smaller subs got axed for similar behavoir. T_D gets to violate rules constantly and gets a pass.
But they do regularly call for acts of violence which are always given a pass until somebody shines a spotlight on it.
Or until there actually is violence.
At least two murders, that we know of, can be directly attributed to users of or events promoted by that subreddit.
To be honest Reddit is insanely lucky we donโt get more public information about the internet habits of many of these recent white supremacism murders.
At least two murders, that we know of, can be directly attributed to users of or events promoted by that subreddit.
Source for that crazy claim?
[deleted] ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 17:46:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
The Unite The Right rally that resulted in Heather Hayer getting mudered by a nazi, and the NEET "Seattle4Truth" (who was originally part of Gamergate) who murdered his dad.
And if you think t_d is bad, you should see the Discord. The gloves come off there.
EDIT: The guy who responded to me that Heather died of a heart attack because she was overweight, and being hit by a speeding vehicle was completely coincidental. This is the quality of discourse we see from the far right.
[deleted] ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 18:18:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
IBeBoots ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 18:34:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You canโt deny that the neo-nazi drove into a crowd of people so instead you deny that he killed one of them?
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:58:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Holy shit the denial of reality is strong with you people. She died because one of your own fuckheads ran her down with a car.
They don't though. That's why they haven't been shut down.
At various times they get content that's bad and it's generally moderated very quickly. Their mods had to get really involved and probably remove stuff faster than a lot of other subs that get offensive topics.
/r/news and /r/politics, the Sanders sub, several of the anti-Trump subs all engage in similar shit.
The smarter move would be to wall off politics. Or, even smarter say to advertisers that Reddit became the most popular and important site for content on the internet by altering user generated content and broad free speech.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 15:41:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But they do regularly call for acts of violence which are always given a pass until somebody shines a spotlight on it.
This is literally how all of fucking Reddit works my dude, you can post something, and until it's seen by a mod or reported enough, it stays up. There are tons of other subs that subtly hint at violence, personally I've seen more on left leaning subs granted there are more of them in general, what matters is that the mods delete the blatantly racist/violent ones.
Spez has said the mod team on T_D does a good job at that, which is one of the reasons they aren't banned, anyone can find mean comments with 0 to -1 karma and screenshot them, they aren't indicative of anything.
c3p-bro ยท 41 points ยท Posted at 16:11:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They don't do a good job. Calls for violence/lynching/murder will stay up for MONTHS then disappear in 2 minutes after AgainstHateSubs calls attention to it. Even if it's already been reported.
Yet anything even a tiny bit critical of Trump is removed in <5 minutes. The idea that they're doing a good job moderating is not true.
Same on march against trump. Iโm not even a trump supporter but that sub is just as pathetic
c3p-bro ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:34:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
-not a trump supporter
-posts in sjwhate
low effort. moving on.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 19:04:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You....have to be a Trump supporter to hate SJWs? What?
What happened to all of the liberals that secretly hate these people too, and thinks they're just a loud minority that proposes stupid ideals?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:27:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 19:50:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Why? It's generally just a label for people that take identity politics too far, and use sociology to, rather than understand the world, tell people how they should act and perceive it as well.
SJW's exist, and they're fucking crazy, if you don't want to acknowledge that, and you genuinely think every branch of Feminism is the same, you're probably a radical...or at least someone that heavily believes the ends justify the means.
Seriously, if you think social justice is good, or has merit, argue for the best fucking parts of it, don't just lump it into one thing and consider it all morally right, there are parts of it that are very fucked up.
[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 19:55:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
azaza34 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:15:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Iโm not....nor did I vote for trump. And I think sjwhate is hilarious. Sjws are fucking crazy. You post on more hate subs than the single one that I lurk on! Lmao
You can actually just go visit the linked subreddit, too many links to use as proof.
It's pretty laughable what you say.
ExaltB2 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:07:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's true, /u/emerica778 is right. I've seen posts and reported them for threats of Assassination towards Trump and his supporters. These are in default subs since I haven't really added or deleted any since I started my account.
One user had Death_to_trump as a name and I called them out for it. They're banned now but seriously it's in politics and other default subs all the time. No one seems to care but I still report them and report at least one a day.
ziggl ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:29:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
That's cool, still doesn't do anything to prove a point either way.
Someone made a concrete claim, you can't just anecdote your way through it, you needs stats or at least some data. That guy gave data -- still nothing conclusive, but it's more than you're giving here.
EDIT: Oh, don't you dare downvote comments that just ask for better info in a discussion.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:47:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:48:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How far to the right do you have to be to think liberals are leftists?
ziggl ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:30:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
uhh... I've identified as a "liberal" for the most part for my whole life. Aren't those the same thing?
Regardless of your answer, this is a great example of why identity politics and overuse of labels is bad.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:42:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Nope. Liberals are on a completely different ideological level than leftists. It's like mixing up communists and fascists.
ziggl ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:51:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well they both normally circlejerk together and share the same social outlooks.
Kinda like how all conservatives or trump voters are immediately called racist Nazis and must be from the alt right. Try being in the middle...itโs not easy
Nah, not really. While we have our toxic people too, most of us just look at things realistically and arenโt afraid to form our own opinions after reading arguments/materials from both sides of a certain subject. If you think you believe every single thing that a certain political side preaches, then youโre either super rare or straight up lying to yourself and others. Itโs ok to have opinions that donโt jive perfectly with your political group
Itโs not though. Most subs self regulate, if it wasnโt for outside influence those calls to violence would remain untouched. People constantly find examples from several weeks ago of upvoted comments saying shit like, kill all liberals. Normally level headed people in the community go, thatโs fucked up, reported. T_D is missing that last critical step.
The point of shutting down the other subs was calls to violence. If you want to remain as an operational sub then it absolutely is your obligation to report these things. That was why a slew of subs got banned a while ago.
Of course what you are saying is true for T_D. They are above that rule for whatever reason.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:08:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So you're saying, if T_D users ago around, and make a bunch of lists of shit that's unreported, they should be able to get left leaning subreddits banned as well?
That's dumb, and falls on no fault of the mods, I've seen several pinned threads telling people to report those that make comments inciting violence, what else do you want them to do? Chances are they'll comply, much like they've complied with everything else spez has asked them to do.
But they do regularly call for acts of violence which are always given a pass until somebody shines a spotlight on it.
Can leftists do anything except lie? Show me on the page, RIGHT NOW, where there is a serious call for violence. No, not some screenshot where a leftist deliberately posted something bad trying to get the sub banned before the moderators could delete it, RIGHT NOW.
There is no violence there. There is no hatred there. Maybe you're just ignorant and just repeating what you've been told, but there are people who lie and lie and lie because they hate that people are resisting against leftist politics.
They can keep lying, but we will continue to win. And eventually most of you will realize just how much you're being lied to every day. Wake up.
And, as usual, you can't find an example RIGHT NOW. What does that tell you? Wake up and think for yourself.
There are two things get listed. 1) Opinions that aren't hate, but fascists use that word to shut down free speech, or 2) People deliberately post shit and take a screenshot before it can be deleted.
Read #2 above. That you can't find something RIGHT NOW proves that, if it occurs, it's deleted promptly once the moderators get the report.
You want to see hate? Go read /r/politics, which is loaded with INSANE, DERANGED levels of hate. Just constant, constant hatred. But leftists don't complain about that, and the moderators sure the hell don't clean it up.
Iโve seen hate but not as much calls to violence. And I have indeed seen that on /r/politics but they are always in the negatives. Even on your โradical leftyโ sub they downvote someone advocating violence against the right.
I vividly remember a post on T_D saying to โget the ropeโ in regards to voting lefties out of office. The top comment was โhang them highโ. One sub is fine with violence the other doesnโt promote it.
Why recently? These rules have been around for months. What makes today the red letter day for rules violations?
covor ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:50:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Did I say today? No, I didn't.
Show me one example in the last month. If you claim that t_d violates rules constantly, you'd have to find violations every day or at least every week, yes?
Nobody is trying to suppress anybody's free speech; posters on T_D are perfectly within their rights to post anything they wish, wherever they are allowed on the Internet and Reddit, as a company, is perfectly within their rights to provide the posters of T_D a space to voice these things.
And I am also free to feel about the things that are said over at T_D any way I wish, and I might just voice my own opinion that I am unwilling to do business with any companies that I believe are enabling those posters by funding Reddit.
See? We're all just exercising our right to free speech.
You know what? You should get in on it too! You should start emailing companies that are advertising on Reddit and let them know that if they pull their advertising you might stop using their products, or maybe you can contact companies that you think would want to be associated with things posted at T_D and try to get them to advertise on Reddit.
Nono, you don't get it, you're allowed to say things, but heaven forbid you actually act upon them!
T_D don't actually want to perform racist acts, they just want to express their disdain of Muslims and black people! They don't actually want anything bad to happen to them!
It makes perfect sense that they'd say something that goes completely against the grain of what they'd actually do! We have no reason to suspect they'd actually show prejudice towards certain groups of people IRL. After all, they're words, and words can't hurt! It's not like they're meant to express ideas that will give some indication of one's actual beliefs and how they'll act in lieu of them.
So in many ways, you're actually worse because you're going ahead with a threat you're making and planning to impose an inconvenience upon them. So much for liberal tolerance, ammirite?
For a website full of users so adamant about free speech, itโs clear they do not include the ability to disagree with the mainstream reddit narrative under the umbrella of free speech. Itโs a liberal website and thereโs very little place for conservative views here unfortunately. (Not a trump supporter before the downvotes start lol)
T_D is at least partly responsible for some actual violence, though in a way that's hard to prove to the point where you could show them breaking the law. They are also largely responsible for getting Trump elected, which is pretty much an ongoing disaster for the US -- and the US is still a big enough deal on the world stage that this probably does affect you. Sure, if they weren't on Reddit, they'd be somewhere else, but being on Reddit makes recruitment so much easier.
Removing T_D from Reddit would probably have a generally positive impact on political discourse and, y'know, the world in general. And refusing to remove T_D kind of undermines any policy Reddit wants to enforce.
That said, I'm actually pretty ambivalent about this. Many platforms, Reddit included, are starting to clamp down on previously-free-speech policies with increasing amounts of editorial control. It used to be "Hey, we don't control our users, but if you see something actually illegal, send us a DMCA notice and we'll take it down." And people mostly understood this -- nobody wrote angry letters to Geocities demanding that they take stuff down, or at least, nobody took such letters seriously, because we understood that Geocities wasn't producing or editing that content.
Now... it's gotten to the point where gigantic companies that provide core infrastructure to the Internet are finding themselves the target of massive smear campaigns simply because they didn't censor. Remember The Daily Stormer, an actual neo-Nazi site? That wasn't just kicked off Reddit or anything, it was kicked off various DNS providers (Godaddy et al), hosting providers and CDNs (CloudFlare), and so on. Basically, there was a massive campaign to kick them off the Internet entirely, or at least push them back into darknets, and it was pretty successful.
But look at the collateral damage: CloudFlare used to be purely "We'll take it down if you've got a court order, otherwise we're just a host," like every provider was in the 90's and early 00's. As soon as they killed The Daily Stormer, it opened the floodgates to policing at least piracy, and potentially many more things:
The adult publisher, however, harps on the fact that the CEO arbitrarily decided to remove one site from the service, while requiring court orders in other instances.
Imagine this outrage/censorship machine turned against a liberal cause, as might've happened when social conservatism was still a majority view in this country:
r/trees -- not only is it a marijuana enthusiast subreddit, it's sneakily named after something else! Imagine Target had a 'pothead' section!
r/atheism -- such hateful godlessness! Do you want your ads next to people laughing at your faith?
r/lgbt (and r/ainbow) -- you don't want your ads next to The Gay Agenda, do you?
Sure, the idea of anyone being outraged by those subs seems laughable now, because they won -- acceptance of marijuana, gay rights, and atheism is at an all-time high, partly because people in favor of these things were able to organize online in places like Reddit. And no one thought to try to get Reddit to kill those subs, because that's not how Reddit works, because Reddit is a bastion of free speech -- or, at least, it used to be. But for those of us old enough to remember, there was a time when even r/pcgamingmasterrace would've had congressmen trying to get it shut down, making impassioned think-of-the-children speeches -- free speech was about the only reasonable defense, there's no way a company would've actually come out and said "We actually think this content is okay," even if that's what they thought.
So this is a tough one. Kill T_D, and that's yet more ammunition for anyone who wants to censor the Internet, which will one day include censoring topics you care about, especially if the wheel turns and social conservatism gains power over these platforms. But let T_D fester, and it will likely make that wheel turn even faster -- they're already powerful enough that Reddit seems afraid to remove them.
To make this more true to life I'm imagining the group in the corner to be right-leaning folks, maybe older in general, varying in how much they care about politics and their love for memes.
Ok, NOW it makes sense. I couldn't imagine NeoNazis in a bar (I have yet to physically see one of them, let alone a group).
But it's easy to imagine a group of people who are conservative politically being labelled "NeoNazi" by the left. Happens daily. Gotcha!
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:52:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
You compared the T-D subreddit to a group of NeoNazis at a bar. I said it's more realistic that they're a conservative group who enjoy memes, probably have a few on the white supremecist end of the spectrum. My point is, repeatedly calling ppl Nazis or NeoNazis is silly.
Have you been on reddit at all during the past 2 years? T_D users pollute every sub that even tangentially mentions Trump or politics. They've made the entire site more toxic.
stanhhh ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:18:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Because the self proclaimed righteous people you're asking this question to are actually extremists. They don't tolerate views that opposes them, so they try to silence them.
This is literally the argument that people trying to save the jailbait subreddit made. Reddit is not the United States of America. It's a corporation. Corporations do not have to enforce or protect the First Amendment -- that's the government's job. The courts', really.
Yeah I hate td as much as anyone else, but it concerns me that this is the approach people are taking. They are actively pressuring reddit to police its content according to what generates ad revenue. It may work well in the case of td but it will probably also result in a bunch of unwanted censorship. It reminds me a lot of the YouTube demonetization scandal, except in this case users are campaigning FOR it...
If theyโre not doing things that are illegal, such as inciting violence, why is everyone so eager to see their speech censored?
They regularly call for immigrants and leftists to be killed.
Elkenrod ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:26:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Links to said comments?
There are plenty of posts like that, that are all downvoted to oblivion. Can you find one with over 100 upvotes? I'd really love to see it and spread the word about it.
Like I said, go check AgainstHateSubreddits, TopMindsOfReddit, and other subs, as they regularly collect that information.
Also keep in mind that T_D mods leave posts up until those subs mention them. Good luck.
Elkenrod ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 15:37:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, I want you to link me them.
I want you to back up your claim saying that they do this.
If I go to a group of subreddits that brigade posts, I'm not getting an unbiased look at how these posts are. If this is so common, and such a large problem, then you should have no problem finding any multitude of these comments. Right?
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 15:45:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Do you want us to literally copy and paste verbatim from /r/againsthatesubreddits? Because the research is all there already.
Dude, if you want an unbiased look at /r/the_Donald, you're never going to get it by asking for a filtered version of it from others, regardless of what those people's political leanings are. Go there yourself, if you're that concerned about getting as unbiased a perspective as possible.
What were you trying to do? Show that subreddits designed to highlight certain aspects of other subreddits have bias? Of course they do! But that does not mean the content they highlight does not actually exist in those subreddits. You were the one asking for sources, knowing fully well that you already had your mind made up.
And what would that have accomplished? You were the one who was asking for a biased perspective on a subreddit--if that bias makes the perspective worthless, then why were you asking for it in the first place, especially while pretending that this biased perspective would have some capacity to change your mind on the issue?
[deleted] ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 16:03:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Except that he posted no evidence to back up his claim. He just told me to look elsewhere, because he wouldn't do it.
Are you advocating that we just believe everyone, without any proof to back anything they say up? If this information isn't hard to find, why won't he post it then? If I was making an argument, belittling a group of people who think differently than I do, I would at least want to make sure that I have something to back up my claims, lest I look like the boy who cries wolf.
This isn't me "Demanding sources before I will consider a point of view"; this is him saying they call for illegals and leftists to be killed. I can make up any crazy bullshit I want about T_D, just like how I can about any subreddit. But if this shit was actually there, then people should report it to the FBI.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:21:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
farox ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:38:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Look at it from the other side. Imagine the people from /r/politics invading stormfront and when they get kicked out, cry about "freedom of speech". Reddit is not the government and it's perfectly ok that they moderate as they please. It's also ok if the community at large has an opinion about that and pushes into a certain direction.
Reddit has an agenda and they push it hard. Simple as that. And Iโd agree that the majority of users are more left leaning, as Iโd imagine that a lot are college students. It has been proven that many college students are more swayed towards liberal opinions once they enter college in America. Im personally more liberal than conservative, so i tend to get along with a wide variety of people here. But I donโt like to see subs being censored and free speech being violated. Just not cool
farox ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:37:34 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I am a German, in my 40s and I do see the whole free speech thing slightly different. I do think that everyone should be able to participate in political discourse... With one exception: If your ideology is against the system that provides you with that freedom. If you're anti-democratic you don't get a say and you should not be allowed a breeding ground for your ideology.
And T_D has crossed that line from conservatism (even the one in US I can relate to. Not agree, but I get where it's coming from) to being anti-democratic.
Thatโs a very fair point and not one that Iโm against. I think in theory i like it, but when it comes to laws, it is tricky especially in the US. Iโm not a member of TD, so I will admit I donโt pay attention to everything that gets posted there, but I get the overall point as Iโve seen enough.
So letโs say the law goes into effect.... TD is shut down/censored by law. Now, what gives the right of another sub/community to have basically the same thing, but from the other side of the spectrum? A sub that literally goes against the elected president? Is that not anti-democratic? Isnโt that a little hypocritical? In the past, and even present people have lost their lives for the very same thing.
Iโm in the middle when it comes to politics, so it just doesnโt seem fair to me. I respect peopleโs views, as long as they arenโt physically harming people. (Talk doesnโt count to me in this situation, as there are plenty of examples of threats etc from both sides)
farox ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:30:12 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
We're not talking about laws here though. This is about whether reddit, a private organization, should support neo nazis.
Are they seriously neo Nazis or just shit posters? Because Iโm willing to bet that there are very very few real neo Nazis there. Real Neo Nazis are few and far between in America anymore if we are honest.
As a company reddit has every right to do what they want of course, and they will. And I despise neo Nazis, But I still donโt like the thought of censorship. That means every business will start censoring everything that doesnโt align with their political agenda, which causes just as much Division in society, if not more. You canโt control racism. People will hold opinions regardless if they can post it online or not, sadly. But itโs all pointless to talk about, as reddit has the right to do as they please. I wonโt miss them if that sub is gone, so I honestly donโt care that much.
farox ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:56:51 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Neo Nazi or far right is really just semantics. It's cesspool either way.
And I despise neo Nazis, But I still donโt like the thought of censorship.
That brings me back to my original statement. Can you imagine going on stormfront, pushing ideas of equality etc. and then flipping out because of free speech? I really think we as a community have the right to steer the way this is heading. And supporting far right ideologies just isn't something I think we should be doing.
Oh yeah I fully see your point, and I do agree. But I personally also think that far left ideologies shouldnโt be something thatโs encouraged either. Have a good one man
farox ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:31:43 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Oh yeah, as the great Ferris Bueller said: "Isms, in my opinion, are not good"
Just because some ideas are abhorrent doesnโt mean we should try to curtail free expression.
We should when their "free expression" makes a place less safe and usable for others. T_D's "free speech" is less important than ensuring no user has to walk into a platform full of harassment and hate aimed towards them.
Hell, /r/fatpeoplehate didn't do anything illegal but they were banned.
Reddit has shown that it has no problem banning subs it disagrees with and banning subs that don't even break reddit rules(until there are brand new rules that reddit makes to ban those subs.)
Yet, the Donald very frequently skirt reddit's rules or just flat out breaks then with impunity.
Either the government has told reddit not to ban them or reddit is okay with the material being posted there, including the calls for violence.
I think people like to forget that free speech means โThe government will not interfere with your right to free speech.โ Reddit is not a government entity. If I own a store and you like to come inside and shout racial slurs at my other customers, I will kick you out. Iโm not infringing on your right to go shout racial slurs on the street, just inside the shop I own. Reddit is owned by shareholders but the same idea applies. T_D is full of toxic pieces of shit who would get kicked out of most privately-owned establishments for saying half the shit they post.
The original draw of Reddit is you can find your niche no matter how dark or taboo.
I like going on Reddit and knowing im able to read stuff I find legitimately wrong or fucked up. It's an easy portal into another world. People want all sorts of subs ban and I disagree with all of them. Violence isn't the defining difference. Many violent and hostile subs on all sides of the spectrum, political or not exist. There are tons of subs which , most likely in good intention, are breeding grounds that perpetuate negative, maladaptive lifestyles
Make the shareholder argument, or Reddit doesn't have an obligation to uphold freedom of speech (which is 100% true, they don't)... but I don't think you can legitimately ignore that topic freedom is why Reddit is a place people like going to.
In a free and open society there are all kinds of terrible opinions expressed;
I think it should be made clear that Reddit is not a free and open society. If it was, then there would be no need for admins or subreddit moderators, curbing free expression and censoring folks for breaking rules of those subreddits.
In a free and open society, I can say whatever I want (within legal reason). I can even go over to my friend Steve's house if I have his permission and say what I want there. However, if Steve doesn't like how I'm behaving in his house, he is perfectly within his rights to kick me out. I'm entitled to speak freely, but I'm not entitled to use Steve's house to do so. What subreddits like /r/stopadvertising and /r/reddit_shutdown want to do is convince Steve and his advertisers that /r/The_Donald is a poor houseguest, and makes Steve's house look bad as a whole.
In a free and open society there are all kinds of terrible opinions expressed; and terrible people should remain free to express them. Just because some ideas are abhorrent doesnโt mean we should try to curtail free expression.
Totally agree. Which is why when T_D instantly bans any user who offers a non right-wing opinion, they are suppressing free expression. They should not be supported under these principles of openness.
Besides, the internet is a big place. Reddit doesnโt owe them anything. They could go anywhere and start their hate communities.
Except that the admins are subsidizing said abhorrent ideas by changing the ways in which they serve ads to users in order to allow T_D to remain up while still appealing to advertisers. This goes beyond merely tolerating them.
Further, they do have a right to express their views. What they don't have is a right to express their views in any way on any platform at any time. To assert that banning T_D is somehow an affront to free speech is akin to saying a business owner would be wrong to kick Westboro Baptist Church members off of his property.
Giving these people a platform allows their ideas to spread and take hold where they otherwise wouldn't have. That has happened undeniably in recent years. That is not a good thing, and it is not something that the reddit admins should be allowing, let alone supporting.
There is an obvious technical solution to all this, albeit one that reddit may not want to deploy. That solution being the demonetization of certain subs, similar to how YouTube can demonetize certain channels, to ensure that ads don't appear on those subs. That allows the subs to exist as-is, without poisoning the hole of reddit with regards to attractiveness to advertisers.
That's essentially what reddit is trying to do I think, short term anyway. The OP sub is going around that by essentially saying "Hey Nike, you are still tacitly supporting a website that says things like this."
We arenโt a hateful racist sub by any stretch...
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:09:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Suffuri ยท 48 points ยท Posted at 14:17:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Man, I really hate seeing the Charlottesville Protests listed as "resulting in 3 deaths", as though they had anything to do with the helicopter crash that killed 2 people. What they did was bad enough, no need to be intellectually dishonest and imply they were responsible for the other two.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:19:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Racism has more forms than "Upvote this is you hate Jews."
I responded to a comment similar to yours elsewhere in the thread. I ducked over to t_d real quick, I'm talking like 30 seconds. I saw a post about Muslim men chanting that they own the UK now, a post about "The War on White People," and a post making fun of transgender rights.
There's a reason "dogwhistle" is a common word lately. That sub has a shared assumption that everyone feels the same way about certain types of people.
Did you miss the thread where we praise a legal african immigrant or did you miss the one where a gay pede thanked us for keeping the american dream alive where in the same thread I post that I am also bi?
You don't know jack shit about "whataboutism", just every other moron who frequents shitholes like /worldnews. Just because someone points out your hypocrisy and obvious bias doesn't make it "whataboutism."
And fuck all of you that are downvoting me, because you all know that I'm right.
Have you ever been to latestagecapitalism? They're genocide deniers.
Avannar ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 14:17:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You're doing the same thing T_D users do: Binary thinking.
Sometimes you do see calls for violence on leftist subs. "Punch a Nazi" was a good example. As laudable as punching actual Nazis may be, there were people labeling every right winger a Nazi and saying we just needed to physically assault a lot of them to change their minds. Didn't get much backlash.
Galle_ ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 14:31:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Youโre changing the subject. /r/politics is not โfar leftโ.
Also people calling for the hanging of top govt officials including the president on the daily bc "treason." I mean that's not even the punishment for treason anyway...
T_D has had quite a few posts wanting John McCain to be lynched, laughing about him having cancer, wanting him to be beaten with a brick. All of which stay up until AgainstHateSubreddits posts about it.
Ahmon ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:13:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's justice, not violence. Unless you mean lynching.
Hanging is not considered justice in the US. And certainly not for anything the president has done.
Ahmon ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:58:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, it is. The death penalty is perfectly legal in many jurisdictions. And treason does indeed carry that penalty. That probably doesn't apply to whatever Trump did, but it's still a call to justice, not violence.
Wyzegy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:42:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Pretty sure we've deemed hanging cruel and unusual at this point. So no hanging wouldn't be just in the US.
Ahmon ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:51:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's you playing semantics. Hanging means capital punishment in common parlance.
Wyzegy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:53:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Oh ok yeah you're using hanging as general term.
esmifra ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:20:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
They did several times with other subs, fat hate is a perfect example. There were plenty of other sub reddits as well.
But nice whataboutism fallacy mate.
Bascome ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 14:49:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
He is not excusing behavior with "Whataboutism" he is asking if there will be consistency.
Will some of the feminism subs be taken down for misandry and calling for violence against men for example?
This is not whataboutism, it is an exploration of a suggested solution.
esmifra ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:58:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
He is not excusing behavior with "Whataboutism" he is asking if there will be consistency.
Oh but it is whataboutism if he is trying to deflect an argument by using another example.
They did several times with other subs, fat hate is a perfect example.
If /r/politics acted the way you are stating then sure, by all means, kill both sub reddits.
How is this whataboutism? I'm just wondering if they will pick and choose based on their biases or not. My guess is yes.
esmifra ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:43:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Ah the old deflection of trying to make me expand in my point and making you as a victim.
Reddit has banned plenty of sub reddits they considered hateful. Td is hateful as it is. Talking about r/politics and saying "what about them?", "they do it to!" is the definition of whataboutism. Please tell me how it isn't.
And if they do it then they should also be banned. I'm fine with it.
esmifra ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:26:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Again it is if your objective is to deflect the acusation.
"he did it too" is something we say when we are 5. Because we learn pretty fast that doing it is not helpful for our defense. Using the same argument now is also equally childish.
And i'm gonna write it again. If both sub reddits do it then by all means banned them both. It doesn't change anything.
td is toxic, it's full of hateful speech and that's what we are talking about here. Pointing to another saying "but maah he did tooooo" is whataboutism.
pomlife ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:27:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Once someone brings up something in conversation, you must only talk about that one thing and no other topic until a referee blows their whistle signaling you may introduce a comparison. Itโs in the rule book.
Hyndis ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:32:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Argument from fallacy, dude.
See, two can play this game. You can't just shut down the argument with one word. It doesn't work like that.
Make a good faith effort to address the argument if you want to be taken seriously. In this case the argument is that there is a bias. The parts of Reddit up in arms about T_D turn a blind eye to left wing subs, such as r/politics. It is possible, even likely, that both the left wing and right wing are equally biased and are both seeing things through filters.
In an effort to be fair, any rules imposed by one side would have to be imposed uniformly across the board, regardless of political spectrum. This means a lot of left wing subs, including r/politics, would get a heavy handed scrubbing just as much as T_D would.
Iorith ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:40:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If you think they're far left, you've been brainwashed by the right.
Protip: liberals aren't left wing, they're center right.
That's what im saying, the American left has taken a distinct turn away from liberal philosophy in the last 20 years or so and is taking the Democratic party with them. This has left a lot of us with nowhere to go. Don't call /r/politics liberal, its not. The people fall all over themselves there to be the loudest in their support of curtailing their own civil liberties.
Iorith ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:52:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What civil liberties are they against?
PS, not everyone believes gun ownership should be a universal right.
Free speech, gun ownership, and due process primarily.
I realize not everyone believes gun ownership should be a universal right. I wouldn't call those people liberal though. How does limiting the rights of a free individual in an effort to curtail possible criminal activity by another individual jive with liberal philosophy? It doesn't.
Iorith ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:11:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I never see anyone demanding the government restrict free speech, but i do see calls for a platform to exercise it's right to be picky on who is given a voice.
You can "curtail possible criminal activity" in ways that don't end in death or that require the ability to murder 30 people between releasing. And if you can't pass a mental exam, I don't trust your ability to judge what's worthy of execution.
As for due process, I never see anyone wanting to cut down on that other than gun owners(you know, the people who salivate being able to execute a thief on the spot).
If you've never seen advocacy for hate speech legislation I don't know what sub youre reading but its not /r/politics.
You can "curtail possible criminal activity" in ways that don't end in death or that require the ability to murder 30 people between releasing. And if you can't pass a mental exam, I don't trust your ability to judge what's worthy of execution.
Im not exactly sure what you are trying to say here. You may have misunderstood my post. I was saying that restricting the rights of one individual to reduce the possibility of a separate individual committing a crime does not comport with liberal philosophy. It does seem to comport with current democratic party ideology though, which is what I was sad about.
As for due process, I never see anyone wanting to cut down on that other than gun owners
So you do see people wanting to cut down on due process, its just restricted to people who are trying to exercise one of their other civil liberties so you don't mind? That challenges my claim how exactly?
Iorith ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:30:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Ah, you're one of those people that think rights are unlimited.
The only right that is de facto unlimited is the right of conquest.
Do you think we are debating values here? My post was debating the definition of a word I saw used incorrectly. I get you don't agree with me philosophically, that doesn't change the fact that liberal is not a word that applies to the bulk of upvoted content in /r/politics.
Iorith ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:43:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Words have multiple meanings. Just because it doesn't fit your favorite meaning doesn't make it incorrect.
My favorite meaning? You mean the textbook definition? If the meaning of liberal is now: anything left of center in the current Overton window of US politics. Im not seeing what descriptive power it still holds.
Iorith ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:48:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit has a new algorithm, where ads are deliberately disabled on /r/all whenever a T_D post is on the page
This is kind of like that time I chose to house rabid possums in my garage but they kept getting out and biting everyone so I erected a small fence around the garage and posted signs that say "WARNING: RABID POSSUMS".
"Hey advertiser, when people contribute to these channels, it stops your ads from displaying. This is a Reddit management decision. Maybe you should talk to them about it."
I go there sometimes (though almost never post, due to the rules).
I just went there now, and there's a post titled "Muslim migrants in London shouting "this is our country now, get out". America, you have been warned....
Another post, a few down- "War on White People"
Another one, a few below that, was mocking a protester with a sign "My baby can decide his gender! (title: His)," which is actually a bit amusing.
And those are just blatant ones from 30 seconds of scanning. There's a reason "dog whistle" has become a common phrase lately. Many, many, many posts in that sub have that kind of side-eyed, down-low, implicit bigotry. The kind of thing where it's "Oh, well, we don't have to say it straight out, but everyone here is basically on the same page when it comes to those people, right?"
As for being a "proud American" ...I went through this shit with W. "You're either with us, or against us." Lovers of free speech my ass.
There's a reason "dog whistle" has become a common phrase lately.
That's basically how leftists lie. They can't criticize what the words actually mean, so they have to make up a lie about what they "really" mean.
No, the words mean what they mean. There's no hatred there, there is no racism. There is rock-ribbed resistance to leftist politics.
There's a reason leftists have decided that Freedom of Speech is an enemy. It's because they only way they can win is to lie to everyone and keep truth from being told. You can keep trying to destroy freedom of speech, but we WILL win. We're already winning. And eventually you'll wake up and realize just how much you've been lied to.
You are like German citizens during the Nazis. All you know is fascist leftist propaganda. The Nazis thought they were the good guys, too. They weren't, and you're on the wrong side. When you're against Freedom of Speech, that should tell you that you've sided with the bad guys.
I mean, I just provided three examples? Unless you think that a racist subreddit is only going to have posts that say "Upvote if you hate the Jews."
Subtext exists in everything. It's why when you hear someone saying "Oh well, we don't deal with those kinds of people" you know exactly what they're saying.
No, "subtext" is bullshit people invent to LIE about other people and smear their character. Context is what matters.
Those three examples aren't hatred or violence in any way. You wouldn't know that, because you're taking it out of context. Look at the headline, "War on White People". Did you even read what that was about? Do you even know what's going on in South Africa?
saying "Oh well, we don't deal with those kinds of people" you know exactly what they're saying.
You know exactly what they're saying because it literally says what it's saying. But without the context, it means nothing. Exactly how leftists like it. Without context, leftists can lie and make it mean anything they want.
Words have meaning. Don't make up bullshit and tell someone what they "really" mean.
So... you're denying the very idea of subtext? It's something that was invented by liberals?
As for South Africa, the point isn't the specific issue - it's that there are a lot of different ways to report on an issue, and t_d consistently has the most inflammatory, DOG WHISTLE-y, sources.
I'm denying the idea of subtext that can be used by one person to make assumptions about what is "really" in the mind of someone else. THAT is bullshit. In other words, subtext may or may not exist with a particular speaker, but it's a completely useless concept in practical value. The only reason someone brings up the concept of subtext is to smear someone's character and shut them up.
t_d consistently has the most inflammatory, DOG WHISTLE-y, sources.
Now, "dog whistling" IS a completely bullshit, made-up subject. You're not thinking about anything, you are literally repeating leftist fascist propaganda that you've heard. You've literally never thought about the concepts you're spewing.
As for the t_d, why do you presume to speak about a place that you don't regularly visit? It's obvious you know nothing. Again, all you do is repeat what others have planted in you. Don't you think you should think for yourself?
Oh god, you're pathetic. I assure you, no one in America is against freedom of speech. The difference is we understand that freedom of speech only applies to the government. You fucks think you can sit there, spewing racist shit, with no consequences because "mah freedom of speech!!!!" which is not remotely how it works.
No, it is not. That's your own mental issue. But even if something was "hate speech", it's none of your business what someone chooses to say. Freedom of Speech also means the freedom to be an asshole.
I think leftists are the most damaging people in the world, literally pushing fascism. But I would never presume to say they can't speak. If only leftists believed the same thing.
Note, by the way, that you don't even condemn using violence to shut down speech. That is who leftists really are. People should take note.
Here is an interesting article that folks reading this thread might find helpful. It explains the need to have tolerance, even for speech that we disagree with.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:30:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
That worked very hard not to address the real problem; to what extent do you tolerate speech that exists to shut down speech and liberty.
All his examples were people going against order, sure, but none of his examples were about people seeking to take liberty away from others.
There were no stirring examples about Hitler on the campaign trail, or Mussolini, or other times when free societies have fallen into authoritarianism. He cherry picked the times when the speech was against the establishment but FOR liberty.
Our White Nationalist problem isn't about securing a different vision of liberty for all people. It's about cutting some of our people off from liberty.
Just read it, and honestly, while it's very stirring, it's not saying anything new or particularly insightful.
"Political Correctness is the REAL enemy!" is something that people have been ranting for decades, generally after people have told them that they're being assholes.
Ah...I don't think thats what the article is about. Granted, its a bit anti-government, but the main point is that we need to have tolerance for political views that we find disagreeable. Open discussion and respectful debate will get the country much further than calls for censorship and mutual name calling.
Open discussion and respectful debate will get the country much further than calls for censorship and mutual name calling.
People keep saying this, and I guess in theory sure it would be great if we could honestly and openly talk to Nazis and they would go "hmm yes i guess genociding jews and muslims might be bad".
But in reality, 99% of the time this doesn't work, because Nazis don't operate in good faith. Look at the websites with the most open, laissez-faire policies (the chans, twitter until recently, reddit, voat, etc.). Places where you can be anonymous, where ideas are not censored, where anything goes. If open discussion worked, these places would be shining beacons of enlightenment, instead it's the main places for Nazis and their ilk to preach and be heard.
Compare to sites which have stricter moderation (MetaFilter, Hacker News, Fark, NeoGaf, subreddits like /r/AskHistorians with strict mods, and so on), they don't tend to have this hate speech problem.
I dislike people like those in this sub. Because now I have to root for the idiots in T_D. I wish both sides would see that free speech and the freedom of opinion and expression works in both directions.
First thing, Free Speech goes both ways. If you're free to say that illegal Mexicans are going to destroy America, then I'm free to say that I think that's racist. I'm also free to tell Nike that I don't want to give my money to people who say such things. If Nike advertises on reddit, then if I give money to Nike, I'm giving money to reddit.
Second thing, Free Speech is a protection from the federal government- that they won't restrict it. There is no legal or moral imperative for a private entity to provide platform for whatever loon feels like ranting today.
If I created a forum, I would be perfectly within my rights to say "I don't want racist shit on my forum. I didn't create this to 'debate' whether or not the Aryan Race is declining. Take that elsewhere."
Finally, I don't have any problem with banning the_donald, especially how we've seen in recent years that giving legitimacy to these echo chambers exacerbates problems. No one is saying "ban all conservative subreddits." They're saying "ban a sub that has become a twisted, bloated mockery of decency."
I really hate having to defend The Donald, because I think it's a cesspool (most ragebait/circleejerk subs are) but your first two points really aren't as valid as you think they are.
TO BE CLEAR: I don't think Reddit banning the Donald is would fall afoul of the issues I mention below. I'm purely stating that "Freedom of speech isn't freedom from conqsquences" and "freedom of speech only has to do with the government restricting your speech" aren't really good arguements, or at least aren't as watertight as many people think, not that in this case the reasons why those are bad arguements are at play. So, with that all said...
Certainly, Freedom of Speech, in the US, as a legal protection, only protects you from consequences from the goverment. Nobody disputes this. When people talk about Freedom of Speech or Censorship, though, they might not necessarily mean in the strict legal sense, but as a general, wider concept. The first amendment isn't defining what the concept is, it's a protection for the concept. It's not necessarily defining the boundaries of where that concept is, or saying "anything this doesn't cover is harmless", it's meant to be the best balance of protecting free expression and thought with minimal regulation of other people.
Non-governmental entities have the power to shape discourse, invoke fear, curb dissent, and cause chilling effects, which are all consequences that the 1st amendment was also meant to curtail. Especially in an age where many corporations and companies wield as much more economic and social power as smaller nations. Why the hell would you think they aren't capable of that, when they are capable of stuff like ruining the environment, spying on millions of people, singlehandedly manipulating or damaging national economies, or all this other stuff they get regulated for?
The Motion Pictures Production Code and Comics Code Authority blacklisted plenty of creators and authors from their industries and cutrailed free expression in film and comics for decades. It's almost inarguable that they caused serious damage to free expression and political commentary. The Red Scare cost so many americans their jobs, social lives, and in many cases their homes and possessions due to vandalism over errant fear over their political opinions. It's also basically inarguable it didn't have seriously chilling effects on speech.
Just because the 1st amendment doesn't protect you from consequences, doesn't mean all of those consequences are warranted or justified, nor does it mean that said consequences aren't just as damaging to free expression in a societal sense. Hell, it doesn't even mean that it's not legally censorship: We do, in fact, treat the actons of private companies and entities as illegal suppression of speech in some cases: utilities are a good example of this, and this is key to the net neutrality debate. And, in fact, some supreme court cases have ruled that the internet constitutes a public square, and some supreme cout justices have argued in decisions that since the internet is increasingly an integral part of society, and has such immense value as a platform for speech, future cases may need to make exceptions and restrict the speech of private platforms, since the internet is entirely privately run and there's no way around that.
Now, my devil's advocate arguement out of the way: Do I think they should be banned?
I don't really care too much either way: my main concern would be that they are consistent: If they ban The Donald, then they better ban other subs that do the things that made The Donald banworthy.
Amen. I'd rather have an Internet with assholes I can easily recognise and ignore, than one where I have to watch my steps in order to not lose my voice.
Some people are going to be assholes. Trying to ban that from your life rather than learn to cope with is a futile endeavour which will hurt everyone in the process.
I'm purely stating that "Freedom of speech isn't freedom from conqsquences" and "freedom of speech only has to do with the government restricting your speech" aren't really good arguements, or at least aren't as watertight as many people think,
Yeah both of those are fair. I mean, there aren't many watertight arguments here.
My actual thought is "The_Donald has gone far beyond simply being a politics subreddit- it's a twisted example of the worst parts of the right-wing, internet culture, propaganda, and basic decency. It existing actively makes reddit a worse place, and probably the world."
But that's pretty emotional and subjective, so I wouldn't try to bring it to a debate.
I just dont get it. Reddit thinks people should be shut down if they are racist. That its a good reason to fire them, stop them getting new jobs, whatever.
But if I say I dislike gays and won't hire them. Well, that shit is going to court.
OK, but you didn't create Reddit. Reddit was run for many years under the promise of never censoring any content whatsoever (except illegal content). This has changed in the last couple of years, but I can understand why people are upset.
esmifra ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:27:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If i have money to spend on Ads, free speech is not a tool that forces me to spend on it.
Free speech is not a tool to enforce your views on others. Others are free to call you an asshole and move way or change the channel. Free speech just means you as an individual cant be persecuted for being an asshole. Others are free to avoid you if they want.
It's my money i spend it whenever i want in whatever i want.
That's a nice false equivalency, but it ignores the fact that we don't want t_d banned merely because it supports trump, but rather that it regularly fosters racism, sexism, homophobia, etc.
Gee, good thing Reddit isn't a government entity then. Fat people hate was "muh freeze peach" too. Shockingly, I don't mourn the loss.
vodoun ยท -17 points ยท Posted at 13:59:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
then I'm free to say that I think that's racist
But that's hateful, it's like accusing someone of being a rapist. The irony is that you're specifically saying those guys shouldn't have a right to voice their options because their opinions are hateful....you're doing this by saying hateful things about them...
So do you see why people don't respect your stance? You're a hypocrite right off the bat
"You're being intolerant because you don't respect my intolerance" is a very old, fatuous argument.
vodoun ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:14:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Sure, in what way?
esmifra ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:36:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What do you mean what way? In what way isn't?
vodoun ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:44:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You made the statement that this is a fatuous argument, we both know that the onus is on you to explain how
So, in what way is it?
esmifra ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:51:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The onus here is on no one. But it is in your interest to try to explain my self. It's easier, forcing me to create an argument elaborate it for you to then you reply with a 4 letter sentence open question and making me argue semantics.
vodoun ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:58:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The onus here is on no one.
Of course it is, we're having a discussion in which you threw out an accusation.
But it is in your interest to try to explain my self. It's easier, forcing me to create an argument
You don't believe that it's in your best interest to be able to defend your position when called upon to? When you say "create an argument", do you mean "explain" your argument? Because you already made the argument above, I'm asking for clarification
When you know what you're talking about, being asked to clarify yourself isn't a problem. I see that this is clearly not the case for you...
making me argue semantics
That's not at all what "argue semantics" means. I'm not asking you to clarify your verbiage, I'm asking you to provide facts that back up your argument
So do you have any facts or are you just one of those people that talks about things out of their mental grasp in an effort to appear more knowledgeable?
esmifra ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:00:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Of course it is, we're having a discussion in which you threw out an accusation.
Where is the accusation?
When you know what you're talking about, being asked to clarify yourself isn't a problem
It is if your intention is to make us go in circles:
It's easier, forcing me to create an argument elaborate it for you to then you reply with a 4 letter sentence open question and making me argue semantics.
vodoun ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:06:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"You're being intolerant because you don't respect my intolerance" is a very old, fatuous argument.
Right there. I then asked you
Sure, in what way?
And then you proceeded to try and make this a circular conversation by essentially saying "I don't need to prove anything to you"
It is if your intention is to make us go in circles
My question was very linear, you're the one who seems unwilling to break out of this. I asked you "in what way" and you were unwilling to answer that.
Why would you be unwilling to answer something so easy?
esmifra ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:18:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Saying racist things like "black people are more violent" and then playing the victim when people accuse of being racist is a a fatuous argument.
vodoun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:23:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You've already stated this and I already asked you to explain "in what way"
We've already been here, it's time to move to the next step...
In what way?
esmifra ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:30:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Are you trying to prove my point i gave a perfect example of "in what way"!
If you don't know what fatuous means it's not my fault. Go educate yourself.
I think with all these comments most people realized how you deflect arguments.
Cya stay well.
vodoun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:34:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And we're doing loops again. How come you didn't have any issue very quickly providing sources in your other comment but you're struggling so much here?
esmifra ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:29:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's not hateful. It's a definition.
Dictionaries arent hateful for stating what words mean.
If your commentary is racist and i say that's racist that's not hateful, it's the definition.
Hateful would be saying you don't deserve to live because you're a racist. That's hateful. Or calling you racist pig. That's hateful.
vodoun ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:41:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Would you consider it hateful if I said "blacks in the USA commit more crimes per capita than any other race"?
esmifra ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:46:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Would you consider it hateful if I said "blacks in the USA commit more crimes per capita than any other race"?
By that sentence alone, no. But if by your comment you are trying to imply blacks are more violent just because they are black, then yes.
But nice one, giving me a perfect example of passive racism for the future.
vodoun ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:50:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But if by your comment you are trying to imply blacks are more violent just because they are black, then yes.
That's exactly what that sentence states (not implies) and that's exactly what the statistics say
In a group of 5 black men, you are significantly statistically more likely to encounter a violent incident than in a group of 5 men of any other race
The statistic is based on skin colour alone
But nice one, giving me a perfect example of passive racism for the future.
So yes, you're saying that this statistic is racist?
esmifra ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:57:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
That's exactly what that sentence states (not implies) and that's exactly what the statistics say
Nice one on showing your true colors there.
That's not how statistics work though, a statistic is an indicator. A correlation. Correlation is not causation. It's the person that then should extrapolate the data to find conclusions, and if the person is racist it's normal for the conclusions to be as well.
If i make a sample analyze it and make a statistic saying among convicted criminals the most common watch is a casio that doesn't mean casio users are more violent than others.
By the same definition, countries that have low black population would be crime free or a lot better. But many aren't. Specially poor countries like eastern Europe countries during the 90s.. Or even now among the poor neighborhoods. It's like it's more related to the social economic context than skin. Imagine that.
vodoun ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:02:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
countries that have low black population would be crime free or a lot better. But many aren't
What? They absolutely are when you compare them to countries with a high black population. The facts on on my side for this one as well
It's like it's more related to the social economic context than skin
Sure, can you show me a statistic that says this?
So again - yes, you do believe that the statistic I mentioned was racist?
esmifra ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:17:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So again - yes, you do believe that the statistic I mentioned was racist?
See my post above, It's like it's more related to the social economic context than skin
vodoun ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:26:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So you are able to answer a straightforward question very quickly when you know that your argument is solid!
See my post above, It's like it's more related to the social economic context than skin
Here you're being circuitous again just like your other thread
esmifra ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:28:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
See how you made me look for sources, made me make several arguments and your replies were all single sentence and deflective, ignoring my arguments.
That's exactly what I meant. And thank you very much for proving my point. Cya latter.
vodoun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:35:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
...are you actually serious? This is absolutely hilarious! You've been the one doing this! I feel like I'm talking to a toddler, there's no logic in anything you say
This is such a bizarre encounter..you're such a weirdly self conscious person
Have you seen someone for this? You really should have this corrected before you get too old
hamret ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:10:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Are you seriously pushing an agenda of racists being the victims?
esmifra ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:36:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Yes he is. Look at this:
Which is unfortunate if you've invested a lot of time and money into a degree that you thought would pay out, but that's a separate issue from this topic.
I'm talking about the availability of any jobs - having undocumented people working in the states literally takes these jobs out of American hands. That's not sustainable
[He also goes to Europe and talks about Russia and NATO.]
He is a td caricature in text form.. And uses miscommunication and ignorance as deflection.
Racism is not racism, attacking others but when other attack back he is the victim. Whataboutism. I love that if you see closely, he actually arguments very little and asks you to expand in your pov, then uses a little part of your argument and forces you to explain why isn't he the victim. That 101 deflection drill.
vodoun ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:11:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So your response to "it's hateful to call someone a racist for supporting the current us president" is....to call them a racist?
Are you serious?
hamret ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:21:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
A: I support racist ideologies
B: That's kinda racist...
A: That's extremely hateful and I'm baffled as to why you would attack me like that. You're trying to censor me because I'm a republican.
You see why I have a hard time taking your position seriously?
I'd also like to note that I never called anyone a racist. I'm just super confused as to how you arrived at the conclusion that racists are the victims of racism
vodoun ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:22:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think the disconnect for you is at step "A".
Which "racist ideologies" specifically do you believe that all supporters of Donal Trump support?
hamret ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:27:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't, and won't, say that all trump supporters are racist, and neither did the person you initially replied to.
vodoun ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:27:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is a thread about how T_D is a racist hate sub...
A: I support racist ideologies
Which racist ideologies?
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:04:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
vodoun ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:09:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
...but that's exactly what they say ๐
Is this actually your argument?
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:10:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
esmifra ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:30:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
When it's in his best interested to be.
It's 101 deflection.
vodoun ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:12:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Which part of that simple sentence are you having trouble with?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:15:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
vodoun ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:19:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How can I simplify it for you kid? Which specific words are tricky? I think I made the mistake of assuming that at your age you wouldn't need you had held to get through a sentence
Do you not understand that TD thinks you're wrong, is that the problem?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:21:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
vodoun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:26:47 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Good boy =) now you're catching on! So if you think they should be banned because you think they're wrong, and they think you should be banned because you're wrong....who gets banned?
I know you can get this one too!
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:28:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
LOL he proves you wrong and you cop out with "I'm bored now" cause you realized what he was saying.
This is like the Confederates or "The south" Fighting The Union or "The North" BTW The past racists were the South and they were Democrats. The North were trying to abolish slavery, its the same thing now, The South > Democrats > Confederates, want to take away rights from people who deserve to have them, And the North > Republicans > Union are trying to fight to keep their rights. Do you also think that slavery should still be legal? would you prefer if our country didnt arm our citizens to protect us from the Red Coats? would you prefer if we were owned by Britain who has child laundering and child rapist roaming free?
SURE THERE ARE 2 SIDES to the coin. Evil persists in the world and you will never be rid of it. T_D doesn't need to be banned, Politics is literally actually much more Offensive and biased, racist and bigoted, but the right is trying not to call out anyone cause we dont want to stoop to that level, we're trying to have civil conversations, explain things, talk things out and understand points of view.
But you'll never understand someone who actually fucking says "I'm bored with this now" Glad to have wasted some of your time" the only thing you're doing is shown how little thought you put into your position and how easily it is to debunk it, and disprove you.
Can you expand on this a little more, it sounds a lot like you're on the side of T_D in that they should be free to share their opinions, even if those opinions are those that would be primarily shared by Nazi's, racial supremacists, and various other groups who's main goals are to spread hatred of others.
If i'm phrasing my question in a leading way then feel free to re-phrase it in a way more to your liking on response.
TheTVDB ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 13:54:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Note that most Americans are free speech absolutists when you get down to it. I am, not because I think those groups have anything valid to share, but because I think itโs dangerous for the government to have a say in what is acceptable free speech. Iโd rather allow people to say what they want (within our Constitutional guidelines, like not inciting violence), and let other people disregard them or provide logical counter-arguments. Weโve had Nazis running for office for decades in the US... they just have a more accessible platform for their stupidity these days.
esmifra ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:38:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I call it free speech anarchists. The same as free market anarchists.
TheTVDB ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:03:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Little different. Anarchism tends to want no government intervention whatsoever. In this case, I absolutely want government interaction if someone else's actions infringe on my (or someone else's) Constitutional rights. That prevents or limits things like inciting violence, libel, slander, etc. I just don't want a huge gray area where the government can decide that something is potentially offensive and prevent people from discussing it.
esmifra ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:40:32 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well that's my point. Some people want to put freedom of speech on a place where no government or individual can interfere with it. Hence why I call it anarchy. But I admit absolutism makes more sense.
He's a free speech absolutist, one of the many groups your side categorizes as 'nazis'.
What neither side understands is, reddit isn't the government, reddit isn't a necessary evil like the power company, it's a website you go on to bitch about politics while you're taking a shit. If you feel so passionately that they're morally bankrupt, stop using the site. It's literally that simple.
I think that's unfair to free speech absolutists. Just because you believe literally all sides deserve the opportunity to share your point of view, does not make you a part of some of the more radical communities that might otherwise be silenced.
The argument about T_D isn't about whether Reddit should take political sides or if the site is "good" or "bad" or anything like that. The issue at hand, at least to me, is whether Reddit is enabling violent radical behavior, and allowing it to be encouraged.
It's not about whether, "i'm offended" by a self-proclaiming Nazi. It's about whether Reddit is providing a forum for these people to grow their ranks and enact their ideas, and whether that should be allowed.
vodoun ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:01:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The issue at hand, at least to me, is whether Reddit is enabling violent radical behavior, and allowing it to be encouraged
That doesn't make sense. Suppressing speech about these things doesn't lead down a good path, and allowing it in no way encourages violence
That's like saying a strip club owner encourages rape...
That doesn't make sense. Suppressing speech about these things doesn't lead down a good path, and allowing it in no way encourages violence
I dont think the slippery slope logic here is fallacious. The line appears to be pretty clear. You're not allowed to incite non-consensual violence against others (Cause some people are into that). The idea that there's some sort of rule-making inertia that comes with that that leads to "you're not allowed to disagree with X" doesn't logically follow.
As far as whether providing a forum encourages violent behavior, one could make the argument that by providing a way to create a community from what would otherwise be disparate elements, you're permitting these people to say this is acceptable. Inciting violence for racial or religious reasons is not acceptable behavior in modern society, and giving people who are trying to do that a "safe" space to do it is almost certainly going to allow that behavior to be normalized.
That's like saying a strip club owner encourages rape...
How?
vodoun ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:17:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I dont think the slippery slope logic here is fallacious
This is not a slippery slope fallacy (google that btw) it's a well researched and documented psychological problem
As far as whether providing a forum encourages violent behavior, one could make the argument that by providing a way to create a community from what would otherwise be disparate elements, you're permitting these people to say this is acceptable
That can be said about literally anything. You think if these guys weren't on Reddit they just wouldn't exist?
How?
What do you mean? You just equated the venue of an "event" with the potential crime that may arise from that event.
What do you mean? You just equated the venue of an "event" with the potential crime that may arise from that event.
Got it. Strip clubs dont have a special area for rapists to specifically congregate as rapists. If your strip club has a significant amount of rape occurring at or around it, then wouldn't you say that it's time to enact some policy changes to try and prevent that? Even though you're not actively encouraging it, something your business is doing is causing this violent event, and one would think that instead of saying, "well i'm not encouraging rape directly", you would attempt to do something about it. That's what's being discussed here. Active users of subs specifically encouraging hateful ideas, are performing hateful and harmful tasks. Instead of hiding behind "free speech for all", the discussion should be had about whether there is a way to curb the encouragement of these ideas.
That can be said about literally anything. You think if these guys weren't on Reddit they just wouldn't exist?
They would exist, but they wouldn't be able to globally congregate and organize. Two guys who think muslims are all terrorists in small town pennsylvania is a hazard, but they're 2 isolated people. Give them a way to connect with all of the other people in the entire world who feel the same way, and all of the sudden they have access to people who might have resources to "do something about it", or at the very least, can encourage each other to "do something about it" with the resources they have available. The phrase, "strength in numbers" comes to mind.
This is not a slippery slope fallacy (google that btw) it's a well researched and documented psychological problem
I actually googled it before using it, and then i messed up my sentence, i'll rephrase. I think the slippery slope logic that suppressing hateful speech will inevitably lead to the suppression of other speech is fallacious.
vodoun ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:40:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Strip clubs dont have a special area for rapists to specifically congregate as rapists
So your argument is that TD is a "special place" for racists and Nazis to congregate. Sure, in what way are they racist Nazis? If you're not just throwing wild accusations then it should be fairly easy to post links to nazi stuff on TD
If your strip club has a significant amount of rape occurring at or around it, then wouldn't you say that it's time to enact some policy changes to try and prevent that?
You're saying that the girls shouldn't be dressed like that if they didn't want to get raped?
Active users of subs specifically encouraging hateful ideas, are performing hateful and harmful tasks
What tasks? The task of exchanging ideas that you deem dangerous? This sounds familiar
They would exist, but they wouldn't be able to globally congregate and organize
Why? Because the Reddit is the only place on the internet people can chat to each other on? There are billions of other places people can go just, that's without even taking into consideration the dark web
The phrase, "strength in numbers" comes to mind.
That's a phrase historically used by the underdog in an oppressive authoritarian regime...if you're saying that it applies to TD, you're literally making my argument for me
I think the slippery slope logic that suppressing hateful speech will inevitably lead to the suppression of other speech is fallacious
It is not; like I said before, this is a well documented and researched psychological problem.
To simplify it: bottling up emotions because the subject perceives them to be inappropriate leads to those emotions being expressed in inappropriate or violent ways
Stifling people's freedom to express themselves has time and again, without fail, lead to disastrous consequences; why would you advocate for this?
It's about whether Reddit is providing a forum for these people to grow their ranks and enact their ideas, and whether that should be allowed.
It is allowed though, but it's only allowed because you're here, if you and everyone who thinks like you just left the site would crumble. Reddit is using left wing money to push a right wing agenda and you're facilitating that.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:11:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Let alone all the free advertising subs like this does....
If everyone always abandoned a community because of its radical elements, then you'd end up with something like our current political parties. Discussion, clear reason, and a desire by a community to improve themselves is necessary to prevent descending into tribalism, like the political parties in the US currently have.
then you'd end up with something like our current political parties
Who exactly has abandoned our current political parties? Every election I hear about how both candidates suck, but you shouldn't vote for a third party because you're throwing your vote away/actually helping the bad guys. That attitude is the only reason the parties are allowed to exist. Participation is voluntary, just like reddit. Don't like how it's being run? Let your feet do the talking.
Seems to me your gripe is with reddit itself, they allow things you don't like in their house, but I'm like if you don't like what reddit allows in their house go find someone else's basement to smoke pot in
vodoun ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:00:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Like I said, I am not happy to be on their side in that matter because I find that particular ilk utterly despicable. But I believe that they are entitled to their opinion regardless of how this goes against everything I believe in. My problem in this case is that the sub is actively trying to force reddit to ban the T_D sub. They arenโt just saying that the sub is filled with idiots, they are trying to get something banned that they donโt agree with. I see them as the typical SJW that only see justice if it happens to coincide with their current world view. I donโt see any difference in their actions to ban one opinion than people burning books with opinions they didnโt like at the time.
So yeah. I think that they should be free to share their opinions however misguided they be. If they would actively try to ban r/Mexico or r/lgbt I would say exactly the same in their defense. For me itโs not about the content but about the ability to say what you want without having someone try to ban your opinions.
It's not telling them T_D exists, it's telling them that T_D is a nazi haven. I doubt they would care if you just say T_D is a right wing sub full of trump supporters.
You don't have to do shit, and the ability to post content on someone else's ad supported platform isn't a "free speech"
issue.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 13:46:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
True, but apparently threads like that are riddled with white supremacists and those guys recruit through social networking and promote terror and violence often in the form of lone wolf tactics.
esmifra ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:25:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Again with the free speech absolutism. Free speech doesn't prevent you from other people making judgement on your speech. It just prevents on you being persecuted by your PoV. It doesn't force others to say yes you your hateful blabber, it doesn't force others to spend money and see their ads next to racist blabber.
If you are say ass whole insults at work and are fired because of it, there's no breach of free speech.
You are free to speek your mind, the world is free to tell you you are an asshole as well.
It does work both ways. It's not a get out of jail card. It's not a way of attacking others without repercussion. It's a shield that protects people but not the content.
Iorith ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:41:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Unless the government is involved and arrests are being made, free speech doesn't apply.
Private platforms have no obligation to give them a voice. Me not giving you a microphone isn't silencing you, it's refusing to help you spread your message, which I have every right to do.
Galle_ ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:33:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I wish you would see that free speech and freedom of expression works in both directions. Disagreeing with you is not censorship. Neither is refusing to associate with you.
NoLaMess ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 14:43:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Does nobody realize youโre using a free service? You want the people that advertise to keep the site alive to bend to your will because you donโt like a part of a site you can have blocked entirely.
Does nobody see how entitled and power hungry that is?
If you donโt like Redditโs practice then walk. The majority doesnโt agree with td so if you had a backbone youโd walk away rather than trying to cripple income.
But that would be inconvenient so guess that isnโt happening
I don't really know how I feel about this business with keeping TD on the site or not, but I do think it's a bit silly that people are literally saying how they don't want to support businesses that advertise on Reddit but they're still using Reddit itself. Like I get why, they want to change it from the inside, but at first glance it's just strange.
Donโt like what Redditโs doing then just stop using it. I loathe this new attitude of โI donโt like something so everyone better change to suit my needsโ
Honestly, I'd be interested in a reddit alternative. I log on to Voat every so often, but it kind of seems like a shitshow.
As for your main point, I assume that's the purpose of the sub- Admins don't really care much about user outcry, so the way to effect change is to complain to advertisers- a pretty common tactic to be honest.
The last time I checked in there there was a post about how they didn't like Hitler, not because of the jew thing, (the OP of the thread made it clear that jews == bad), but because of the socialism thing.
What I donโt understand is the entitlement and self righteousness to demand they change for the user.
Reddit is free. They want to dip into the admins pockets because their hissy fits arenโt working and they need a safe space away from anything they donโt agree with
Also, I don't think it's that. It's more related to boycotting something you find morally distasteful. Like when everyone found out Chick-Fil-A donated millions to anti-gay groups, and people protested and boycotted them.
Obviously we're all addicted to reddit, so boycotting them isn't a feasible solution. But boycotting* their advertisers...
Actually, it's kind of interesting- OP ISN'T boycotting their advertisers. They're not even threatening that. I mean, the implication is there, but the message is actually "Hey, just so you know, you're advertising on a site that supports X. Some people might get mad at you for that, but just wanted you to know what was going on in case reddit tricked you with their new algorithm"
So youโre saying people are too weak to change themselves so they want everyone else around them to change so they feel better.
Itโs absolutely feasible and reasonable solution wise. Theyโre just too chicken shit to actually do anything they wouldnโt benefit from to show it.
So again, entitled with no real backbone or enough conviction to do anything mildly inconvenient for what they โbelieve inโ
Youโre getting a little fast and loose with the term support as well.
They tolerate and allow a ton of distasteful subreddits in the sake of some sort of fairness but they arenโt outright shouting support.
They go to a lot of lengths to ensure it leaks as little as possible but itโs not enough because users refuse to change so they expect everyone else to do so as it suits them.
How is the_donald racist? Because it disagrees with your views? I sorted by controversial and couldnโt find a single racist post. Mainly itโs just a bunch of posts about how reddit suppresses their posts over there
So now the truth is racist? Did you even bother to watch the video in the link, or are you just going off the title? Do you even know any of the history of the Black politicians and activists in power, and how they've been making people dependent on the Government since the 60's?
Wow, so the black guy in that video is racist towards himself? I didnโt know that was possible. Itโs like that Chappelleโs show skit
Galle_ ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:36:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The fact that TD is racist is obvious to any unbiased observer. If you refuse to acknowledge that TD is racist, then thereโs no evidence in the world that could convince you it is.
Perhaps linking a post thatโs actually racist, instead of linking a video of a black guy talking about the issue and saying heโs racist towards himself wouldโve done the trick
Galle_ ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 14:41:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If we were to, hypothetically, link you to a post of TD calling for the enslavement of blacks, you would not have believed that it was racist. Youโre a textbook case of motivated reasoning and confirmation bias.
Uhh, yes I would have. How can you even say that? The linked post was so ridiculously far from saying anything of the sort
Galle_ ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:52:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I donโt believe you, even though from your perspective youโre telling the truth. Iโve seen your kind before. Iโve been your kind before. I know exactly how you think.
Hereโs my personal advice for you - you need to be as skeptical of yourself as you are of everyone else. Why are you demanding evidence that forces you to believe that TD is racist, but are satisfied with evidence that merely allows you to believe that it isnโt? The bias is obvious.
I had never been on the Donald before today, so when I saw this post I went over there to check things out. I sorted by controversial and scrolled for a few minutes, but didnโt see anything racist. So I asked for an example of a racist post so I could see first hand that it was and no one could find an example of one. How is that โevidence that merely allows me to believe it isnโt?โ This whole argument is so stupid, if you wouldโve just linked a racist post this conversation wouldโve been over after one comment. Instead everyone is just calling me racist and biased instead of simply just showing the evidence. Why would I blindly believe a random person on the internet telling me itโs racist but they canโt actually show any proof?
And if you โdonโt believe me,โ how about you just link a racist post from there? Problem solved. Seems like youโre going through a lot more work to argue with me and call me names than it would have been to just link a post
Galle_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:02:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Because you wouldnโt believe it was a racist post, obviously, we just covered that.
Could be lead, could be poor education, or perhaps this is just what the worst quarter of the bell curve has to offer. Whatever the reason, Trump supporters, in particular those on the_duckfart, are the absolute dumbest people to ever walk the face of the earth.
You don't have to like T_D to want Reddit to be free and open and not be at the mercy of advertisers. I really don't think most of you people want it that way, you just want to use the advertisers against something you hate. That's a dangerous path you can't turn back from.
This is exactly why YouTube is currently such a shitshow, and why every other week there's another popular channel that pops up on /r/videos because they got demonetized.
Do I think Coke ads should be on an ISIS recruitement video? No. But by calling Coke out and making a huge deal about it, they forced Coke to start policing their ads. And YouTube, in response to this, just created a list of potentially controversial topics that advertisers can opt out from. So now, science channels are getting demonetized because they show chemicals and reactions.
I agree with the sentiment, t_d can eat chode, but this is a fucking dumbass way of shutting them down.
What other methods do we have? We have repeatedly reported cases of mods leaving up highly upvotes posts that break reddit's rules, we have documented it heavily in subreddits like /r/againsthatesubreddits, we have spoken out constantly. Spez and the other admins have made changes to hide the problem, and taken down peripheral subreddits, but they have continuously refused to take down t_d. Reddit admins have a history of waiting until advertisers put on pressure to enforce rules or regulate their content to conform to the law (remember /r/jailbait?). This is the only solution that remains. T_d is actively dangerous. The radicalization that has occurred their has already led to people being murdered, and many, many more cases of people being harassed heavily. A study a while ago found that banning subs like that has actually worked to decrease radicalization and extremist views.
Wyzegy ยท 41 points ยท Posted at 19:48:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I filtered them and they were gone. However, thanks to the awesome work of the 3 dozens of anti td subs, I constantly get their sit on /r/all just linked with an obnoxious comment.
Besides, the reason it's so annoying to me is that he's not my president and I'm beyond sick of hearing about him. I can't filter everything I want I because 100 subs it's just not enough and new ones keep popping out. I can't just use all my filters on the political idiots, because I need to filter memes and sports too to be able to have a good time here.
And how does that prevent people from being radicalized to violence, or from harassing people outside of t_d. T_d isn't its own plane of existence, things that happen there directly impact not just the rest of reddit, but the rest of the internet as well as the "real" world.
Wyzegy ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:17:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah so far as I'm aware no one's done violence because of being on t_d.
And you'll forgive me if I'm skeptical about harassment after so many other claims of internet harassment end up either being legit criticisms or just a bunch of randos saying "you suck" on twitter.
by specifically targeting and hating t_d and the people that post therein (normies like me and the rest of the lot), doesnt that make /r/againsthatesubreddits effectively a hate subreddit?
turn it off just like the rest of reddit has done. it no longer appears on r all, with the exception of all the stupid anti t_d subreddits butthurt posts.
I am perfectly oblivious to the shitshow that goes on in that subreddit because I don't choose to visit it, nor do I choose to visit many other subs. But it does give a view to outsiders that Reddit is some sort of cesspool of shit posters with no real value. I think this view is more and more rare though, as more and more people have contact with Reddit and see that you don't see the nasty shit unless you go looking for it.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 21:12:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You're oblivious, but not visiting t_d doesn't spare you when they spread like cancer throughout the site.
Closing a subreddit doesn't stop them from shitposting in other subreddits though, so I'm not sure if it'll solve anything other than make people feel like they've won some turf war.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:17:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, it won't stop them entirely, but closing their y'all queda recruitment center has to have some impact. When the alternative is leaving Charlottesville: the sub open, I think nuking it is a fairly obvious choice.
If you read the admins responses in the blog update about the Russian bot investigation and reddits cooperation with the FBI, I think there's enough context there to reasonably assume that Reddit has been either asked or outright told by the FBI not to delete the sub. It explains their dodgy answers and why they haven't done more.
Complaining to advertisers is a deal with the devil. The internet status quo has been that ads are not associated with the content on which they appear, and for good reason. YouTube is in a downhill spiral because of this bullshit. Tons of legitimate channels are getting demonetized, and now so are gun-safety and informational channels. This is actively silencing good sources of information because a bunch of people got butthurt and went crying to advertisers. It's not worth it.
Yeah this is the same shit as when people gleefully find legal loopholes to try and get someone arrested because they dislike that person. Here we don't like T_D so we are siccing the cops the advertisers on them.
Lonelan ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:49:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Except Pyongyang knows it is satire
Aikidi ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:15:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think that's all there is to it though. Look at what jailbait did to the reddit community - despite the page itself not breaking any laws it drew an entire sub community of pedophiles here that stayed lurking in other subs long after it got banned.
Lonelan ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:49:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I have brought peace, justice, and removed Nazis from my new social media website!
You don't have to like T_D to want Reddit to be free and open
Why would I want reddit to be "free and open"? That's the dumbest idea ever. Hosting a sub like t_d is ethically completely wrong and reddit has no obligation to do that anyway. E.g. if you own a restaurant then you don't have to rent it out to a bunch of neo nazis to hold a rally there either. I assume you are American and therefore pretty brainwashed about the whole "unlimited free speech" bullshit. But anyone that understands history knows that you don't show tolerance towards fascists. It's ridiculously naive and ignorant.
I mean how ignorant do you have to be to argue for free speech for a sub like t_d when they specifically ban free speech. And I am not even talking about hate speech or trolling or anything like that. They literally have rules that anyone that says anything negative about Trump will get banned. Honestly, you either learned nothing about WW2 or you are the definition of ignorance if you think we should tolerate those people.
But isn't it like a bookstore that has rules against selling books that contain overt racism, but then turns a blind eye to this one book section while all the rest are thrown out?
Konree ยท 79 points ยท Posted at 17:00:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Comparing Donald Trump fanboys to fucking Nazis is scummish
Meanwhile I'm just sitting here having filtered their subreddit from my feed ages ago like a rational adult and don't spend an second of my time mining salt over how people on that subreddit decide to waste their time.
bat_mayn ยท 43 points ยท Posted at 16:31:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
To them it's about sanitizing reddit so they can stop other people from viewing things they don't want them to view.
Are you talking about r/politics or the trump sub? Because I've never ever seen the trump sub come up on the front page, pretty sure its a universal hate on it circlejerk at this point.
Reddit banned it from anyone who isn't subscribed from seeing it on /r/all or front page.
Razzal ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 18:06:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It has been disallowed from the front page. Back when it was new, it was all over the front page of all. Reddit tired of it and made it to where that could not happen.
When was this? We're plagued by r/politicsr/pics and various other mainstream subreddits posting whatever anything from a tv news site to buzzfeed cooks up about Trump bs every day.
I wanna say maybe a year ago? They would vote brigade the shit out of every post in that sub to get it to /r/all so for a while that's pretty much all you'd see. It was a mess. I will say that's one administrative decision in recent history that reddit got right.
Elufson ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:43:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Upvoting your own posts is vote brigading. Alright.
Guess its subjective then. Regardless, sometimes i feel as though i should just filter out us politics as I feel like i know nothing more than the average person exposed to TV news.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:10:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm fairly certain it got filtered out by the newer algorithms that other comments are referring to, and yeah if you don't enjoy seeing politics just filter them out.
I don't see how filtering solves anything. Reddit provides a platform to far right extremists. Just because you decided to ignore doesn't mean it's okay or a good thing.
This website is a platform full of far-left extremists as well and everyone serms to be able to ignore them just fine.
And I'm fine with that. I don't like seeing extremist views on any side but I also know all kicking them will do is make people that don't like them feel good. It solves nothing outside of that.
I don't visit T_D, so I don't know if what they do rises from distasteful to illegal content, but this seems beside the point.
If reddit hosted content is all under the same tent (as with a Target store with a distasteful section), then this eliminates the opportunity for partnerships with virtually all advertisers because of reddit's porn (and other) content.
As far as I know, all of reddit's porn content is legal, but there are plenty of advertisers who would nevertheless find it distasteful, and be risk adverse to promoting major brands on a platform that hosts that sort of content.
The big question for reddit, youtube, and others... is how much it needs to sanitize its content to please advertisers and consumers/creators.
I hate Nazis as much as the next guy, but over-reliance on /r/stopadvertising's argument leads to a slippery slope.
Edit: For everyone insisting that I should visit T_D and see for myself that it is a Nazi-free utopia of free speech, please don't bother. All other comments are welcome, especially from those interested in how reddit can become advertiser-friendly but also avoid steering the content into an internet version of lame network TV.
Edit 2: Also, please stop trying to convince me just how much T_D deserves to be banned. Rightly or wrongly, my assumption is that as long as T_D isn't posting illegal content, the notion of distasteful is entirely subjective. But the greater point of my comment asks: do we want advertisers to determine the acceptability of content on reddit? I realize that approaching this question pragmatically is difficult, but arguing that T_D is angelic/demonic misses the point I'm trying to make, and the conversation I think we need to have.
It wouldn't surprise me if Reddit tries to make a clearer distinction between "regular" reddit and porn reddit. Separate them and have regular ads and porn ads. Might even need a different account to view them.
I'm old enough to remember going to video stores in the 1980's, where all of the "family-friendly" new releases would be in the main part of the store, and then behind a curtain in the back of the store, there would be a "must be 18 to enter" section for "adult movies."
It's worth noting that (as far as I know) once nationwide corporate chains took over the video tape/DVD rental market, these "adult" sections disappeared.
Video Update was a fairly large chain in my area and they had an adult section up until they went out of business. I don't believe Blockbuster (where I worked for four years) or Hollywood Video ever had adult sections and I think a mom and pop shop up the road from me that's miraculously still in business still has an adult section.
It's worth noting that (as far as I know) once nationwide corporate chains took over the video tape/DVD rental market, these "adult" sections disappeared.
also, once those chains (Blockbuster) got big enough they started getting "special" censored/edited versions of some regular movies because think of the children or some stupid excuse.
Well if I walk into a music store i sure as hell not going there to buy a skrewdriver album, but if they have cardboard cutouts of the band members and are promoting their new album I'm gonna wonder what the fuck is wrong with the people running this place.
There's also the option to block subs you don't like, such as T_D
Fullwit ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 14:54:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Redditors don't like simple solutions
trentv4 ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 15:38:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Its a little more difficult sometimes. At least the donald stays in its one subreddit - my filter list is getting pretty long for anti-trump subs which keep appearing and posting the same shit.
Except they don't. The user-base tends to leak out across reddit and stir up shit in comment threads. Go ask mods of small or medium sized subs how many times in the past year they've had to lock threads on a seemingly uncontroversial topic and where those provocateurs come from and you'll find a correlation.
You also don't see it because the community/mods in more generic areas like the various "/ask" or "/pic" subs nip it in the bud quickly. Just browse voat for a bit to see an example of this in action.
Blocking T_D only stops the content from being seen on an individual level, it doesn't stop the users posting in other subs or their community breaking site rules. That and the whole radicalization aspect from being seen as a legit community. When it's a site wide problem, there needs to be a site wide solution. Like banning the sub.
Fullwit ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:36:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
If you want to put an end to radicalization , you'd have to shut down Reddit completely or, at the very least, delete all subs and just make it one, unfiltered mess. Being in a group of likeminded individuals with cause app of the individuals will lead too the radicalization of all of those individuals' views. It's a psychological phenomenon. I can't remember the name right now, but I'll edit this comment when I can find it.
Well that's just pure hyperbole, it's pretty easy to see which subs have a radicalizing effect on their users. To say all of Reddit has that effect because of the website design sounds like you're trying to make T_D seem normal. It's not, other subs don't get people worked up enough to go kill their family or attack pizza shops to find a child trafficking ring. Plus we know that T_D has been used by foreign agents to push propaganda and lies specifically designed to radicallize users.
I think it's a user setting for the website that's turned on by default for everybody regardless of what you're using to view.
Cronus6 ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 15:49:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Oh I think (if we assume Reddit wants to go "mainstream" and attract "normal" user like Facebook etc.) the porn will either have to go completelyor users will have to provide real age verification to access those parts of the sites.
Once you attach your real identity to your profile it's much for attractive to advertisers...
Personally, I think the current round of bans (guns,beer,tobacco) is just the beginning. I do not however see them going after politics or religion.
I just want there to be a way to mass hide the porn subs. I want to be able to see some of the content in r/WTF and other subreddits where NSFW content isn't porn (mostly) while at the same time not swiping past r/girlwithsocksonandateasetinthebackgroundalsogreendrapes pictures in the first 100 posts on r/all. It gets even worse as you go down and it feels like these super oddly specific subs are made daily and they always have near 200k subscribers.
It used to be so much worse when every spoiler was tagged as NSFW. Couldn't look at a thread about a TV show without risking a porn swipe if you forgot to turn the filter back on.
Just make a feature where a sub can turn on "this is basically porn" and let me toggle that off. If a porn sub doesn't check the box then shut it down or check it for them after reports.
otarru ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:10:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
otarru ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:53:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's the new default reddit where people without accounts are automatically redirected. Like /r/all except without NSFW content, politics (most controversially /r/The_Donald doesn't show up), and without some more niche subs that usually get into hot like sports team subs or certain games. I was sceptical at first but I actually prefer the end result, and if I want something different I can always browse /r/all.
It's been the default for about a year IIRC.
Fullwit ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:58:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Just use your front page and subscribe to all the good subs you find as time goes on. I always forget there is an all page becaude of how little I use it, it's so random and half of it is uninteresting to me.
Neo-fascist is the word we should apply to them if they are indeed acting like fascists. Apologies for the mistake, i was using a mobile and didn't really proofread.
They literally advertised a Nazi rally. In a thread pinned to the top of their page by the mods.
[deleted] ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 17:01:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There are actual Nazis on T_D though, like others have said in this thread they advertised for the Charlottesville rally that had, you know, actual Nazis marching in it.
Hyndis ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:39:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How many, though? I mean really, how many? They had to fly in white supremacists from across the country to bulk up their numbers, and even then they were pathetically outnumbered.
In a country of 320 million there might be, perhaps, thousands of Nazis. Even if every single one of them lived in Florida and they all voted every time there are so few of them they'd still struggle to make a difference.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:52:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think any "actual nazis" use Reddit since the ones who are left are absolutely ancient. I think you mean neo nazis, which is a whole different group of people that don't have tanks or planes and buy tiki torches at Wal-Mart.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:23:23 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Thereโs a subreddit called /r/debatefascism which is supposedly for people curious about fascism to come and ask questions to real, self-identifying fascists. Super weird and interesting to poke around there if youโve got some free time.
Falco98 ยท 56 points ยท Posted at 15:29:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And this means what exactly? I bet there were members of the KKK who liked the Andy Griffith show, too, but that doesn't mean the show should be conflated with the KKK.
I hate T_D as much as most people here, but /u/thewimsey's point remains that conflation of the two is undercutting and watering down the evilness of Nazis.
People who say this fail to appreciate the subtleties of the argument. No, alt-right white nationalists are not literal genocidal Nazis. But there are many echoes of the past in the present. When we say โthose who fail to study history are doomed to repeat itโ this is exactly what we are talking about.
To say that you hate people who are pointing out similarities between the past and the present, and that you think they are stupid, makes it sound like you arenโt thinking about this issue past the surface level. The Nazis and Fascists and Communists didnโt steal power. They werenโt military dictatorships or coups. They all had popular support and were even voted in legally. You canโt deny the similarities. Many serious academics have pointed them out.
For all his flaws, I donโt think Trump is planning to destroy the constitution. But his assaults on some of our institutions- the FBI, the credibility of our elections, the rights of states and cities to set their own laws- is concerning and if allowed to stand will set us down a darker path for whatever is to follow.
When a group is doing horrible things in the name of their ideology, that has a tendency to push moderate people towards an opposite ideology.
For example, in the US in the 1960's, when people saw on the evening news the horrible treatment that civil rights protesters were receiving, that pushed them away from the right and towards the left.
You can also see that as an after-effect of the Nazis themselves from how far to the left Germany has come in the decades since WWII, even when half of their country was part of the USSR for a significant portion of that.
Almost no one who supported the Nazis at the start had any idea of what they would wind up doing by the end (not even the Nazis themselves; their original plan was to expel the Jews from their territory). Their opposition to extreme left parties gave them support, which eventually gave them power, which allowed them to do the horrible things we all know them for.
That said, you had to reach pretty far for that nugget. I didn't even think it was physically possible for someone to get that much of their own arm up their own ass.
The right in germany was the quintessential authoritarian militarist. They needed no goading or provocation to use force, and had no qualms summarily executing leftists in the sparticist uprising. The violence by the left has always been actuated by actions from the right. If trade unions, the right to assembly, and the right to petition had been respected they never would have resorted to violence. You're as ignorant as they come if you think violence and the use of force isn't a bedrock of conservatism.
It's like you have no self awareness and realize the rise of a violent left was due to the oppression from the right, who had and continues to have a disproportionate amount of power due to their tendency to resort to violence.
Or do you think trade unions in the United States got violent because they wanted to cause chaos and not because they wanted to stop being exploited ?
This is silly, twisted logic. Why were Northers anti slavery while the southerners who saw the brutality of slavery every day supported it? Why isnโt Russia a free and open society after the brutality of the Soviet Union? Why donโt the Japanese accept immigrants after everyone they killed during the war?
More like people who are already racists will latch onto anyone on the other side to blame so they can justify their shitty opinions to themselves. Look at you. You show me a video of one left wing protestor whacking a guy with a lock and think that makes him a Nazi. Did you forget about the actual Nazi who ran over and killed a woman a few months ago? Who was protesting the removal of confederate statues? How does that not give you massive cognitive dissonance? The answer is, you donโt give a shit about the actions of the protestors, you just want to point out bad individuals on the other side so you wonโt feel bad about yourself. People who can lie to themselves this well canโt be convinced anyway.
This is silly, twisted logic. Why were Northers anti slavery while the southerners who saw the brutality of slavery every day supported it?
People are masters at justifying their own bad actions. I'm sure that Mr. Upper-Middle-Class White Male Professor with a Bikelock thought that he was the epitome of "Bash the Fash" in that moment.
Why isnโt Russia a free and open society after the brutality of the Soviet Union?
They're nowhere near what we would consider free and open, but they are moreso than they were under the USSR. It doesn't help that many of those in positions of power in the USSR stuck around in positions of power in the Russian Federation.
More like people who are already racists will latch onto anyone on the other side to blame so they can justify their shitty opinions to themselves.
Yes, human nature is certainly shitty.
You show me a video of one left wing protestor whacking a guy with a lock and think that makes him a Nazi.
No, I think he's a terrible person who committed unjustified violence for his ideology.
Did you forget about the actual Nazi who ran over and killed a woman a few months ago?
No, I think he's a terrible person who committed unjustified violence for his ideology.
How does that not give you massive cognitive dissonance?
Seeing horrible people on both sides? Not sure.
The answer is, you donโt give a shit about the actions of the protestors, you just want to point out bad individuals on the other side so you wonโt feel bad about yourself.
That's a lot of words you're trying to cram into my mouth without my consent.
The other thing is, who are you to assume what side I'm on? I lean fairly left, but at this point, I'm just sitting here, hoping that some of these idiots who claim to share my beliefs will shut up, stop hitting people and stop telling me and people like me that we're terrible people for things that we can't help.
Well, this isn't a bad point. Problem is, before the Nazis were "the Nazis", they were just the National Socialist Party, a quizzically vocal section of the population that endorsed all manner of hatred based on their own poverty and insecurities and the rhetoric of a charismatic leader who played to their fantasies of being oppressed and downtrodden at the expense of less powerful groups. It was essentially just historical happenstance that the National Socialist Party was allowed to become The Nazis.
Or. put more directly, the people of T_D aren't as bad as the Nazis, but they are veering dangerously close to being as bad as the people who BECAME the Nazis, and they're moving at a much faster pace than the National Socialist Party ever did. If they don't become the same level of threat, it may well have nothing to do with their intentions, so much as it has to do with the environment that their particular movement is gestating in, i.e. an environment where there is severe pushback instead of abject apathy.
EDIT: I respect your right and desire to downvote me, but I'd like to know why. Do you disagree with my reading of history? Do you disagree with my characterization of Trump Supporters and the alt right? Or are you reflexively down-voting because you disagree with me but you're not sure why and you realize that maybe you don't actually have a good reason and maybe that scares you a little so you should downvote the the culprit? I don't mind any of those responses but I do want to hear them.
[deleted] ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 17:01:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I will answer, you deserve that. You claim I am as bad as someone who became a nazi. Can you quantify that for me please? Can you list the ways you know me, have interacted with me, and feel justified enough to make that claim?
And when you have finished listing your interactions with me, can you lay out your interactions with the other 590k subscribers? In this way we can see how you can make the comparison between us, and the 30 odd million men and women who became nazis.
In short, you know none of us. You seem to know very little beyond nazis are bad, and trump is bad, therefore they are the same, and therefore anyone who supports trump must also be a nazi. As a line of logic, its weak, it makes you look foolish, and you deserve the down votes for your ignorance and lack of common sense
"You claim I am as bad as someone who became a nazi". No. I claim that as a group, the mentality is similar. Individuals rarely mirror exactly the zeitgeist of their particular group; it's a compromise one makes when joining a group (dems/libs included by the way).
"Can you quantify that for me please? Can you list the ways you know me, have interacted with me, and feel justified enough to make that claim?". As stated, no individual is going to display all of the traits- that's the danger of mob mentality in general. However, your ability to overlook so much of Trump's... Trumpishness belies a tacit complicity in it. You are okay with antiglobalism and economic isolationism. You are okay with gun rights being unaltered or expanded. You are okay with the profiling of Muslims and Mexicans regardless of immigrant status. You are okay with filling the White House with non-politicians in an attempt to drain the swamp. You might notice, none of those things are inherently bad at all; it's just opinion up to this point. BUT. You are okay with allegations of adultery. You are okay with breaking apart immigrant families for nebulous and badly-researched reasons. You are okay with intentionally distancing ourselves from our historical military allies, and even antagonizing them. You are okay with blatant racism and sexism. You are okay with nepotism and pay-to-pay politics. You are okay with the United States being downgraded financially and positionally on the world stage. Now, I'm not saying you SUPPORT any of it, merely that you are OKAY with it. You won't stop it, as long as you still get your guy in office. And that's a very, very dangerous place to be. That's the Apathy I mentioned in my post.
For these very reasons, I don't need to know everyone in your subgroup individually. I know that they are complacent to those wrongs. I know that they can justify one or two or ten scandals in the name of the "greater good". I know that they will dismiss or attack me for offering a logical counterpoint because I have been framed as the Enemy and not the Debate Opponent. Just as you did in your last paragraph (though, not as harshly as some, so, thanks for that).
And before you go spouting that I don't know what I'm talking about: I'm a WWII artifacts reseller and collection curator. I am a history teacher. I am the son of the son of a Birkenau Death Camp survivor. And I'm not saying that "nazis are bad, and trump is bad, therefore they are the same". I'm saying that proto-Nazis used a very specific type of social manipulation involving the de-legitimizing of the media, control of political message, disenfranchisement of supposed out-groups, unification under a charismatic leader, very specific talking point about a country returning to a state of power, the eradication of immigrants, the deletion of political opponents from places of influence, and iconography as political might. Whether you believe in my line of thought or not, these are the strategies that Hitler used, and they are the strategies that Trump uses, and you and all of the other Trump voters are complicit in that. Every last one. Sorry if that sounds harsh but, well... it's true, man.
[deleted] ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 17:42:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You don't have to personally interact with every member of a political community to make a judgment about the views of said community.
You don't, but we typically call that discrimination.
[deleted] ยท -14 points ยท Posted at 17:42:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They're downvoting you because they are mouth-breathing nazi apologists who can't bear the thought that brown people aren't to blame for their problems.
While I do honestly appreciate the support from you, rhetoric like this is incendiary and counterproductive ultimately. Remember, dividing the nation is part of the strategy. Pissing off liberals and Democrats and frankly anyone who isn't a Trump supporter and then having them react in a violent dramatic way just reinforces how put upon and oppressed and reviled they supposedly are, which increases the strength of a demagogue like Trump. Be firm in your beliefs, but do not resort to ad hominem attack. It just proves that we are the holier than thou elitist dicks that they think we are.
Thing is, the Nazis didn't start out by gassing Jews en masse. It was a slow rise that took over a decade and was borne out of economic trials of the time.
When people compare T_D to the Nazis, they aren't saying these people are as bad as the Nazis, but that they have been brainwashed in the same manner and unanimously support their "God Emperor" the same way the Nazis did. As they become more vocal, if there is no resistance to their power, then it is entirely possible they take a similar path.
the context is modern. people who like T_D also seem to be much in favor of current alt-right political things, which, is a modern re-birth of nazism. yes, current alt-right stuff is not as bad as the german nazi's were, but would it be better if we waited until the alt-right started a holocaust against mexicans before we start comparing them?
after all, alt-right was a "name branding change" to make it seem more acceptable.
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 17:27:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
well, what about them chanting "jew will not replace us" at the charlottesville protest? or the fact that they can be seen walking around with similar red arm bands.
i mean, are you really drawing the line at "unless they're in the mid 1940's, killing jewish people for fun, they're not nazis".
are you really just trying to categorize them and are only fine to say they are "facist jerks", but not actual ww2 nazis?
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 17:33:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Cognitive dissonance: Bashing people for islamaphobia(Nazi), stereotyping all islams(conservatives) based on actions of the few extremely evil. Even the so called good ones harbor and encourage the bad ones.
when they agree on most things, to me, they are the same bad group of people. if i had to rate them on a scale of terrible, (A+ being the worst), i'd rate the charlottesville marchers as A- and average T_D as a solid B. but those are both very terrible to me. it doesn't help me at all to draw a clear difference between them.
Please tell me how many times a peaceful leftest protest was ruined by anarchist/Antifia.
If you think that's something that's actually happened, you can look for your own sources. I'm not your errand boy.
Fair Warning: You're going to have to put in a LOT of mental gymnastics and you're likely just going to make yourself look like even more of a basket case than you already have.
Do you honestly believe that leftest protest haven't been taken over by people who just want to cause chaos? If that is the case, i have an island i want to sell you. Cash upfront.
Do you honestly believe that leftest protest haven't been taken over by people who just want to cause chaos?
You have provided exactly zero evidence to support that theory. Who are you, exactly, that I should take you at your word (besides a privileged white kid coasting through state university on mommy & daddy's dime)?
Pre war Nazis were T_D though. Youโre looking at them after they claimed power and fully realized their rhetoric. Let me ask you this. Would you be comfortable if T_D was creating laws and policy for America?
As a Canadian, none of us are in any fucking position to criticize the leader of another nation.
Or have you forgotten about our permanently-vacationing terrorist-schmoozing international embarrassment and his cabinet of blatantly corrupt vacuous sycophants?
I think the issue is that reddit is trying to have it both ways:
Oh we are a bastion of Free Speech, we can't delete T_D, we may not agree but will defend to the death their right to speech, etc
Oh T_D is gross and offensive, we totally get it, here let's make sure they don't show up on our front page, and make sure advertisers aren't affiliated with such filth
Porn subs are their own thing, clearly labeled, and generally only a few even come close to being controversial
Porn subs are their own thing, clearly labeled, and generally only a few even come close to being controversial
While I personally agree with your comment, it's worth noting that there is a reason Target, Walmart, Bed, Bath, and Beyond, etc... don't sell porn in their stores (beyond obvious economic reasons).
The reason is there are a lot of people who continue to think all porn is distasteful and should be seen as a public health crisis.
butt-guy ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 13:54:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Not saying that I agree with it being a public health crisis (people should be able to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others), but porn addiction is a real thing.
Yes, but addiction to almost anything is real, especially if it provides enjoyment. Being a gamer I seen some friends throw away years of their life to an MMO. Playing board games and when I used to play magic I seen other people spend well beyond their means. Some people I watch sports with end up making it almost about their life where they put their fandom above family enjoyment.
So yeah you can be addicted to porn, but I think that is just anyone with an addictive personality. They will just substitute porn for something else unless they learn how to manage addiction.
While I am generally against most content produced by T_D, I don't think those points are necessarily contradictory. Having free speech does not mean that everyone has to listen to your speech. Reddit has made it easier not to listen to certain voices which most people do not want to hear; that's not a restriction of free speech, but an extension of it.
We're a bastion of free speech, but reddit has rules that supposedly are supposed to be enforced, rules that T_D breaks constantly. The mods ban a few posts and point the admins to them as evidence that they heavily moderate the subreddit and are controlling the discourse so that it doesn't break rules, and the admins are happy with the extra traffic that comes from the subreddit so they look the other way.
Like you said, porn subs are clearly labeled and don't break rules generally. There are plenty that have been banned (for example, /r/deepfakes recently).
The fact of the matter is that the admins make rules as they like and they enforce them as they like. There are multitudes of subreddits that currently exist that break rules and are allowed to proliferate. Just a while ago on a post complaining about T_D a user listed dozens of other subreddits that also break rules - and reddit banned a bunch of them but left T_D alone.
When a subreddit is gross and offensive, I don't see any reason to ban it. In that case, it's a move against free speech. When a subreddit actively gathers users to brigade and harass others both on and off reddit, is used to push extremist views, and has even fostered terrorists, that's a way fucking different story. "Free speech" doesn't mean you should be able to incite hatred towards others.
I'm kind of sad deepfakes was banned before I could poke around in it. I mean, I get it, but at the same time what a futuristic, cyberpunk dystopian way to masturbate!
I'm sure you can still find that stuff out there somewhere. I saw the sub and the community around it was actually really excited about the technology and discussed it thoroughly in between j/o seshes.
I can't remember but I think there were two subs established, one for porn and one for the tech, and I can't remember if both got banned... But I read a thing on how the program worked and it was pretty neat and had other fun applications (like putting Nicolas Cage into every movie).
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:41:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Literally none of the content there fits OP's description. He literally made a claim without evidence and everyone buys it because it fits their narrative.
This post and the post it was referencing were paid for by people who really want to see T_D destroyed, conflating them with literal Naziโs is batshit insane and a slippery slope to censoring anything and everything that doesnโt fit the โnarrativeโ on Reddit. The comparison of T_D being the Nazi section of a Target store is not at all a good comparison and after that breaks down itโs just more of the same talking points that would destroy this website if implemented. He just dressed it up in a shitty and not at all valid comparison.
They do actually constantly break the rules though.
Esifex ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 20:14:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I mean they DID sticky and promote a rally called Unite The Right, where attendees marched with armbands and chanted 'Blood and Soil!' and killed a counter-protester by driving a car into a crowd, but no, they're really fine people, for realsies.
Wasn't Charlottesville technically the night before the unite the right rally? If we are honest the white supremacists piggybacked on that rally and there isn't much the rest of the right could do. Especially with a rally called "unite the right" I don't think the average person would know it would have ws involved.
Took me like, 30 seconds to Google search this stuff. I got this from the first 10 pages of the 5,000 results for Jew, Gas Chamber, and "(((".
Obviously a couple comments are not respective of the whole, but where do you draw the line? Why don't these comments appear in any liberal subreddits? There are only ~50 references to Jews in OurPresident, Liberal, Democrats, HillaryClinton, and BernieSanders combined, yet close to 6000 in T_D. Why is that?
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:41:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Why don't these comments appear in any liberal subreddits?
Because they're busy arguing in favor of eugenics and taking away democratic rights of people who think wrong, and calling all republicans as evil as nazis.
Yeah, they're not using the words "gas the jews", but they're just using more acceptable terms for the same concept: Getting rid of people with the "wrong" opinion.
You realize that the choice of words doesn't bother people when you're both chasing the same ideal, right?
There are loads on /r/ShitPoliticsSays, take a look at the top posts on that sub to see plenty of examples of left wing people calling for violence against conservatives or Trump supporters.
r/Fuckthealtright believes Twitter user "Linda NRA Supporter" (@LindaCo03364065) is a totally organic account, representative of the NRA and its members as a whole.
Seems that most examples of "violence" get promptly removed in other subs. And the top things they are freaking out about seem pretty lame. I don't think getting banned for shitposting is the same as putting people in gas chambers.
Frequent T_D user here. We do it cause we find it amusing. It started off light, but we grew desensitized and needed darker and darker humor. In addition, once people started refering us and Pepe as hate symbols or Nazis, rather than apologizing and denying, its more entertaining to double down
Reddit is not your government. They sell a product and are under no obligation to protect anything that harms their bottomline.
Reddit is banning stuff that doesn't comply with reddit guidelines. T_D is the execption, probably because of it's size. In this case reddit decided they can earn more by having T_D around than banning it for the transgressions.
Trying to influence that in either direction is as free of speech as anything.
I think they may have been pressured into deleted controlled goods trade subreddits. It reeks of someone abusing the law to put Reddit in a bad spot. Something like the ATF having a right to access Reddit's data because they [] technically [/] qualify as a gun show host or maybe allowing them to be fined for offering both firearms and alcohol in a certain state.
If it was political then I can't see why gunsmithing and brewing subreddits are still here.
It has to do with the same radical behavior exists outside of T_D. LSC bans everyone and promotes an ideology that killed tens of millions of people 70 years ago. The parallels to T_D = Nazi is very strong.
Late stage capitalism and the donald users often talk about achieving their ends through violence, about killing their political opponents, and heck even killing/imprisoning people who don't agree with them.
It's not whataboutism, it's about keeping the nutters contained in their subreddits.
fredemu ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:26:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There's kinda a difference between the administrators banning any discussion on a topic, and a particular sub banning people that don't want to stay on topic from their particular corner of Reddit (particularly if they make it abundantly clear from the start).
If they pretended to be an impartial discussion space and then still banned all dissent, that would be one thing. But they make it clear that they're a pro-trump rally on the internet. That's what the forum is for. Someone coming in and posting something negative or disparaging in that context is off-topic.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:44:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I've said this before, but I'll post it again. As someone who frequents a lot of political subs, T_D included, they don't try to silence good debate and discussion. But they do silence flaming and trolls.
How many users on this site do you think go to that sub to have a respectful discussion?
The only sub I've found that is even somewhat decent at that is /r/neutralpolitics. But even that sub is incredibly biased, despite the name, it just encourages people from both sides to come so it actually encourages decent discussion.
What I don't understand though, why would you want that sub to allow people to come in and flame the user base?
I get this is for the memes and free speech is one of the best things about America, but at the same time I understand why Germany has laws against hate speech.
Given the accountability we are seeing from the current administration, I really canโt help but wonder what protections we genuinely have against an actual Hitler-esque rise to power. Germany didnโt wake up one day and start rounding up Jewish citizens. It was a slow buildup going through proper channels gaining influence and power.
Imagine if Trump and the current GOP was in power during 9/11. What do you think the political landscape would have been? How do you think Trump would handle American citizens of middle eastern backgrounds?
what protections we genuinely have against an actual Hitler-esque rise to power.
I am German.
This paints Hitler as some sort of overpowering seducer who managed to somehow persuade the innocent Germans into becoming these monsters. In reality, he just groomed the sapling that had already sprang. It's much too easy to reduce the evil that happened to one person.
In that sense, a law against "hate speech" helps exactly nothing. It is absolutely unsuited to deal with the kind of spirit that yields hate for other humans and only manages to achieve one thing - people just do not discuss these topics in public, but behind closed doors and curtains or "hinter vorgehaltener Hand", on the quiet.
On top of that it creates an atmosphere of "Now more than ever!" and causes people to stick even more together and rest absolutely assured, that they indeed are in the right.
Which is absolutely what is happening here right now.
Germany didnโt wake up one day and start rounding up Jewish citizens. It was a slow buildup going through proper channels gaining influence and power.
This could have easily gone the other way in direction of communism though. Hitler just happened to provide a better perspective of security and calming down of the sometimes chaotic political circumstances in post WWI era.
Imagine if Trump and the current GOP was in power during 9/11. What do you think the political landscape would have been? How do you think Trump would handle American citizens of middle eastern backgrounds?
I wish people would stop comparing Trump to Hitler. This is really an insult to everybody who suffered under the Nazis.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:17:22 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you. Trump=Hitler is probably the most irresponsible misuse of history with current usage, just ahead of revisionist history of the Confederacy.
In reality, he just groomed the sapling that had already sprang
How is this so much different from the โeconomic anxietyโ middle class whites that are constantly being left behind?
This could have easily gone the other way in direction of communism though. Hitler just happened to provide a better perspective of security and calming down of the sometimes chaotic political circumstances in post WWI era.
And thatโs what I was illustrating with my 9/11 example. We tipped down one side of destroying privacy but we could have easily gone down another, much darker path.
I wish people would stop comparing Trump to Hitler.
Iโm not comparing Trump to Hitler in a genocidal maniac sense. Iโm comparing him in a magnetic personality sense. Trumps presidency is not normal. A lot of what you are saying is highlighting a lot of similarities to the people of pre war Germany. People are scared and want security. Iโm not saying Trump is going to start a holocaust. Iโm saying itโs very clear that the American people can be influenced to support a populist politician with an agenda that isnโt exactly clear. Put it this way. If Hitler was born an American citizen and could run for office todays political climate, do you see any brick walls in his way from becoming the same 1945 Hitler of history here in America?
I thought we had those brick walls in place but seeing the rise of Trump and the reaction of other politicians Iโm not so sure anymore.
It's a problem of mind then and not persons, which is exactly what I think.
You need to deal with people's fears instead of telling them that everything is great the way it is and trying to silence them with newly found laws or - as is happening here in Germany, cannot speak about the US - ridcule them for them.
You need to seriously adress and discuss issues and you also need to acknowledge issues, where they are right.
A perfect example for not to handle those topics for instance is what happened here after the incidents on NYE here in Cologne, where I happen to live.
The only answer the left had was to belittle what happened and declaring it a problem of gender, denying every other factor that had or had not played with it, like the fact the home countries of the North African guys who assaulted and robbed women that night, have serious problems with incidents like this as well. Fingers were pointed at the Oktoberfest with a "German men aren't better", completely ignoring the fact that an incident like this is without example in Modern time Germany.
Police was even accused of racism the next year, because they acted and sorted out a couple of hundred guys of the same heritage, who explicitly travelled to the place it happened the year before.
And that's how it goes with everything here and then they start to wonder why "simple" people are starting to go on the streets and are getting even more afraid and angry on top, because all they see is the situation staying the same or even escalating further.
Everything is going downhill here and all the people hear is "Shut up. It's all good. Don't point at people. You are bad."
Let aside that the alternative you people had with Hillary Clinton looks even less appealing from over here.
The Weimar republic which preceded Nazi Germany had very 'modern' anti-hate speech laws and they did nothing to stem the rise of the Nazi Party. A few Nazis were arrested by it but:
Only one danger could have jeopardised this development โ if our adversaries had understood its principle, established a clear understanding of our ideas, and not offered any resistance. Or, alternatively, if they had from the first day annihilated with the utmost brutality the nucleus of our new movement.
If you can take Hitler's word on anything mildly repressing the Nazis was exactly what fostered their rise to power, it would have been better to leave them be as a marginal party.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 16:10:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Seriously. These same asshats watch Trumbo and condemn the U.S. government for trying to squelch what it saw as a dangerous idea: communism. It all boils down to trying to censor ideas that you personally don't like.
There are other trump subs that no one cares about because the other subs aren't festering piles of shit that continually call for lynching those they disagree with.
No one is saying that /r/stopadvertising should be banned or otherwise silenced, they're just saying their position is wrong.
[deleted] ยท -21 points ยท Posted at 15:11:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I tend not to worry about the people who earnestly think neonazis deserve a private subreddit in a private company. They're 1A idealist and generally don't have any clue how the Constitution or Its amendments actually work.
So they can say we're wrong, they just can't say it in our sub.
[deleted] ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 14:34:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Really sucks when their favourite "Citizens United" bites them doesn't it, lol.
We'll use our free speech to inform advertisers how their free speech is spent. It's the circle of life capitalism.
bigbc79 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:48:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How is Citizens United involved? This is a private company selling ad space to private companies. I donโt think anyoneโs trying to get the government to censor anything here.
[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 17:13:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Citizens United stated that a Private Company was able to use it's money to support or deny support of political figures under a protection from 1A. The ruling wasn't just about politics in general but laid out a standard that the way a company spends it's money is protected free speech.
bigbc79 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:47:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Right, but it's protected from the federal government (like all free speech). As far as I know, private companies can still choose what "speech" is allowed to be on their platforms. It's just the government that can't.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:01:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
We're dealing with Free Speech Idealists who don't actually think any speech anywhere should ever be stopped as that counts as censorship and censorship is bad.
Dlrlcktd ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 14:34:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Your argument sounds close to the one The Westboro Church used when they were protesting that funeral
[deleted] ยท -37 points ยท Posted at 13:55:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
hurr durr porn and believing in "white genocide" are the same thing.
"Only the things I like should be protected by free speech!"
-Le educated liberal
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:06:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"Free Speech" as it applies here only relates to the government retribution.
If a group on Reddit thinks you're an asshole and wants to burn Reddit down by cutting their ad revenue because Reddit continues to provide a space for neo-nazis, that's not government retribution. That's literally a free market of ideas.
Feels pretty good being an educated liberal, I guess.
Free speech is a principle, not just the law on the books. It's the very core of American philosophy, and reddit as well. The site was co-founded by one of the most ardent pro free speech advocates, Aaron Swartz.
It's idiots like you who understand nothing but feel the need to portray that ignorance for everyone.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:14:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Bullshit. Reddit has shut down plenty of subreddits for being assholes, and has rules around what content is allowed. It has no obligation to give you your white supremacist hidey-hole a safe space.
Reddit is a community. If the community writ-large engages in activism to make this a space that doesn't tolerate blatant white-supremacy and violence, then it would appear we're collectively showing your ilk the door and asking you to leave.
If reddit wants to keep making money - their primary goal, by the way - they should listen to the majority of their community. Reddit has no moral or philosophical obligation to host a propaganda machine that engages in racialized violence.
Right, and T_D breaks none of those rules. In fact, by the admins own admission T_D users are unique in that they spend almost all their time in that sub and nowhere else on reddit.
Reddit is a community. If the community writ-large engages in activism to make this a space that doesn't tolerate blatant white-supremacy and violence
You would have made an excellent Brownshirt or Redguard. It's quite amazing to see the parallels right now.
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 14:31:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
T_d calls for violence, brigades, and regularly breaks reddiquette. So, again, bullshit.
If you want to compare me to historical advocates for corrupt government ignoring the fact that you're literally coming from a subreddit purporting to solely support a corrupt President's cult of personality, please do. The irony is delicious.
T_D literally stripped all subreddit links to anywhere on reddit until very recently. You didn't know that of course, you just want to make shit up to fill your narrative.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:40:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Lmao - you guys literally had Charlottesville stickied. Y'all regularly post about violence, leave it up for a day or two, and then delete the threads to claim "Nuh uhs!" at the adults in the room.
T_D actively tries to game the system, and your sophistry doesn't do anything to hide it.
Charlottesville had around 100 white supremacists, but over a thousand in total attendance. Not everyone there was a white supremacist.
It's amazing that something a third-grader can understand goes over the head of most liberals.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:01:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
claims t_d isnt full of hate
majority of comments made demonizing liberals
hhhhmmmm
you are so transparent. sad.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:45:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
/u/TheManWhoPanders is here to bravely defend the_dildo. how dare you rain on his brigade parade. you should feel honored to read his regurgitated talking points that inhabit literally every post about donald trump in this sub /s
Calling for illegal immigrants to be deported isn't calling for violence
brigades
They don't even allow links to any other subreddits. Not even general links. They have set up automod to remove any comment linking to Reddit, aside to T_D itself.
Are there subreddits dedicated to brigading? Yes, including /r/bestof, the sub we're on. But T_D isn't one.
regularly breaks reddiquette
Just vague enough to make it impossible to prove impossible.
bullshit
Just because you declare something doesn't make it so
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:04:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Bruh y'all literally had Charlottesville pinned until one of your tiki-torch-whites drove into a crowd. You can duck/Dodge/lie/twist all you want.
Charlottesville wasn't presented to anyone as a white supremacist rally. Just a protest of another protest. Hindsight is 20/20, and foresight isn't.
Also, "bruh" makes you sound like a moron.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:30:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
First things first: you post in T_D, so let's not go on a name calling spree. Surely your dictionary of the "best" words can provide something with a little more bigliness behind it.
Charlottesville was absolutely a white supremacist rally. It's why their permit wasn't granted the first time around, and had to be appealed on first amendment grounds (so obviously the sky isn't falling on your 1st amendment rights). It was championed and keynoted by white supremacists like Richard Spencer. The tiki-torch procession was meant to evoke imagery from early German nationalist marches. The participants chanted "blood and soil."
There is quite a large amount of conversation to be had there. You wouldn't know because like most anti-TD people you've never actually visited the sub.
Thanks to reddit's democratic upvote system and the overwhelming liberal presence here, the mods need to curate anti-Trump content to keep the sub from devolving into an anti-Trump one. No different than a WWE sub curating anti-WWE content.
Yeah they curated the hell out of all those supporters who felt the president betrayed them by signing the latest budget bill.
Can't let the sub devolve into an anti-trump one by allowing his most hard-core supporters to discuss their opposition to a thing the president is doing.
Bascome ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:00:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The correct sub for discussing issues with Trump supporters is not T_D it is r/AskThe_Donald .
Perhaps you would get better results if you went to the correct sub instead of crying victim by doing the wrong thing in the wrong sub.
T_D is a rally sub for Donald supporters, why would you try to bring up anti Donald issues there when there is a perfectly reasonable place to discuss those things already?
I was only talking about the president's most hard-core supporters, the one's that campaigned for him, who donated money for him, who spent their time celebrating him on The_Donald, who are now banned because they disagreed with him signing the budget bill.
Everyone keeps assuming that I'm mad in any way shape or form about their policy of banning all disagreement. I'm absolutely not. It makes my day when the sub throws its users under the bus (or do you guys prefer the train?).
And I get that you have to have T_D apologetics lest you end up on the banned list too, but it's hilarious to me to watch you guys scream how much you care about free speech while happily spending your time on a subreddit that will ban you for bringing up bump stocks, or Goldman Sachs bankers, or non-interventionism, or the budget bill, or marijuana enforcement, John Bolton or any of the hundreds of other issues you pretend to care about.
Why? Because you obviously don't know what T_D actually is. Read the sidebar. It's a 24/7/365 political rally and shit posts. It's not a forum for open debate. Go to r/askTrumpSupporters if you want that.
It's like you complaining that you got banned from r/politics because you kept posting pictures of cute puppies. Ya, you got banned from that subreddit because you didn't follow the rules of the subreddit.
Bascome ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:57:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No it is because T_D is a rally sub which is clearly for Donald supporters as it says in the sidebar.
If you want to talk to Donald supporters try r/AskThe_Donald .
That is the sub for reasonable conversation.
You all are just trying to talk about issues in the wrong place.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:21:38 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Not at all what OP was saying. Heโs saying that advertisers would likely find it distasteful to have their ads right above a porn post, just like theyโd be uncomfortable with their post showing up above a t_d post. In this theyโve made a compelling point.
Protecting t_d's right to ban everyone and utilize bots to enforce narratives and artificially boost themselves to the top of reddit is absolutely what the founders had in mind with the 1st amendment.
What's that? You say I'm arguing in bad faith? Well how about you come over to t_d and say that to my face you little punk. I've got a ban waiting for you
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 14:26:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'd just say you're a moron for thinking the Founding Fathers were contemplating gaming reddit.
asshair ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 16:19:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
right, snowflake, you do know anti-hate subs are against hate subs not because they don't fit their narrative, but because they are hateful. if you can't see that then you might also be hateful. sorry bout it.
"leads to" explain please. Acting on something heard or read is a choice. There is no words that can magically force a person to commit violence on the speakers behalf. That's like saying that rap music or dungeons and dragons or video games cause people to murder other people. Reading or hearing about the holocaust doesn't make people go gas Jewish folks. Pull your head out of your ass.
The idea that a website dedicated to specific communities must be exposed to advertisers as a single entity is absurd. YouTube has the same problem. If you can categorize communities with tags, then advertisers can whitelist their ads on specific subs, or YouTube channels, and problem freaking solved.
No, I will bother. You should go there and see for yourself. Then report back if you find anything hateful or Nazi-related. You might be looking for a while.
It's a joke that a sitting president is so inept he needs his own cheerleading squad on Reddit. People who will go out to other Subs and down vote people who dare speak ill of their dear leader.
You should visit T_D on occasion. I do, and not for why you would think.
The orange meatball got elected because we didn't take the thinking of this subgroup seriously enough. Spend some time there understand the mind of the opposition so you can better combat them.
What's that saying? Best way to become an atheist is to read the Bible.
I also think it's good to humanize people you disagree with. Personally, I cannot stand Trump. I don't like what he stands for, how he ran his campaign, and from the little I know of his personal life he seems like a dirt bag.
But some people love him. Some people smarter and more informed than me think he is a great president. How much of what I think about him is based on bias or faulty information? Is the average Trump supporter a racist troglodyte, or is it just they have a different perspective than me? Maybe they have different values, but is that because they are selfish, ignoramuses, or is it because they have had a different life experience?
Assuming the worst in people is why we have such a huge perceived divide in American politics. Honestly, I think we should stop attributing every difference in opinion to ignorance or selfishness, and maybe cut the other side a bit of slack.
See, people are quick to judge just because they support trump. Don't judge people based on what they do, judge people based on why they do it. If someone supports him because they think he will bring a future for the white race? Then obviously they are a racist and stupid. If someone supports him because they agree with his economic policies, they aren't a bad person - they might just see things differently.
True, but the same could be said of most political subreddits (latestagecapitalism, politicalhumor, etc.). Also, dehumanizing/attacking them will make them double down; outside attacks won't make any of them second guess themselves.
MADXT ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:28:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If it was just a community of trump supporters that would be fine. The mods and the community have a very particular agenda and push hatred and division while censoring anything and anyone that invites discussion.
Part of the point of the sub is to dehumanise 'others' (basically anyone that isn't them) and treat them like the enemy for any reason.
So while I 100% agree that treating other people with respect and humanity is the only way to communicate and understand each other, it makes no sense to support behaviour that is the polar opposite - people that intentionally kill communication and understanding and only believe in disrespect, violence, and insulting others. Renting out a space to a fanclub that likes someone or something or talks economic policy or something is vastly different to renting out a space to a group of people that actively engender aggression.
See /r/againsthatesubreddits for examples though you'll find the same toxic and divisive tone / circlejerk throughout the subreddit.
I also think it's good to humanize people you disagree with.
This is made a lot more difficult when you read posts on T_D. First off, a significant amount of its population are bots - just as is the case on Twitter. On top of that, a lot of them are just spouting the same drivel over and over again to the point that it is hard to tell who ISN'T a bot.
I also think that part of the problem with the rise of Trump is that people in America weren't assuming the worst in people. A lot of Americans wanted to believe that the issue of racism was gone or at least being addressed - that there weren't this many virulent xenophobes in the country.
What good does dehumanizing them do? Will they second guess themselves because others are disrespecting them? Instead, it makes things worse. They'll double down.
I also think it's good to humanize people you disagree with.
Can we please stop pretending everyone one disagrees with isn't a goddamn sociopath?
Sometimes we gotta put out foot in the sand and go 'no, you are just an asshole,' and sometimes we have to accept the person making such accusations is in sound enough mind they know the difference between someone arguing in good faith and someone who's just being a vitriolic manchild.
T_D doesn't deserve to be banned because it's promoting Nazism. It deserves to be banned because if they're allowed to act the way they are, then why the hell was I taught to have manners as a child when the rude people are the ones getting what they want?
Sometimes, though, you're just holding them to higher standards than they want. Is it fair for Christians who hold themselves to higher standards to expect those same standards from everyone else, and call everyone who doesn't conform an asshole? At what point do you show leniency for different life experiences? Are all Muslim men who treat women poorly by western standards assholes?
And even if they are assholes, that doesn't mean we should dehumanize them - doing so only makes things worse. They won't stop being assholes because others dehumanize them.
But what do we gain by treating them with respect if respect isn't their end goal? Good faith only works if the intent is mutual, even if the arguments are different. If one side is purposely seeking to undermine the other and uses good faith as a shield to abuse their rights and evade consequence, not taking a harder stance against them only encourages them. They're not seeking an accord or trying to have a reasonable discussion, they're acting delinquent and trying to cause anarchy.
Trust me. I'm all for people being respectful in the face of rudeness and maliciousness when it's effective and legit defuses the situation. But that's why you analyse a situation and change how you respond based on the individual. Context is everything.
I don't visit T_D, so I don't know if what they do rises from distasteful to illegal content, but this seems beside the point.
The truth is that they relentlessly mock the Left and it hurts their feelings so they want to shut the sub down. There isn't any actual Nazi content or support for Nazis there, that's all bullshit.
Not Asian, but I'm a big supporter of what this sub stands for. Take pride in your culture and heritage and support nationalism, and cut off the occident before you get completely infected by the Jew virus like we have. I truly hope you can do that, goodluck!
What? He was trying to tell me about how T_D deletes anti-semitic comments and bans whoever posts them, and it turns out he posts about the "Jew virus" infecting his country?
It could not be more directly related to his argument.
When IS it acceptable to call these people Nazis? Do they actually have to gas someone to death?
LOL you said anti-semitic posts get deleted but posted this?
Not Asian, but I'm a big supporter of what this sub stands for. Take pride in your culture and heritage and support nationalism, and cut off the occident before you get completely infected by the Jew virus like we have. I truly hope you can do that, goodluck!
EDIT: I was notified some of the context for two of the posts are wrong, so I added a few more!
Link 1 and 2: Holy shit, how did you even find these? Did you really save extremely unpopular comments from two year old comments from incredibly obscure and unpopular threads for the sake of parading them around.
Link 3, Putting Immigrants in Gas Chambers: Actually click the link, whatโs it about? A comment in support of the death penalty for a convicted murderer.
Link 4, Putting Political Opponents in Gas Chambers: Actually click the link, whatโs it about? A law enforcement officer talking about how part of training includes being required to walk through a pepper spray chamber, and that opponents of pepper spray should try it out in order to educate themselves.
Link 6, Claiming to All be Nazis: Literally a thread and comment about how they feel people are labeling all Trump supporters as Nazis.
Link 7, Actually Hateful Comment: Congrats, you found your first legitimate example!
Link 8, Gassing Gay Escorts: Actually click the link, whatโs it about? Calling for the death penalty for a politician who literally masturbated over the corpse of a gay escort he injected with a lethal drug overdose of meth. Yeah, you didnโt even get the topic right for this one.
Link 8: Gassing for Assault: Actually click the link, whatโs it about? Calling for the death penalty for kidnapping, extended torture, sexual sadism, hate crimes, mutilation, etc. An extremist view, but not โgassing for assault.โ
Seriously. If this can happen to any sub, please show me.
Why does t_D have literally infinitely more posts about Jewish people and gas chambers than literally any other subreddit in existence? There's over 5,000 results. All the other subs I mentioned have LESS THAN 10.
So you're AGREEING that we can use low-upvote comments to judge a whole sub? Really?
How many would it take to actually change your mind?
If I bring you a dozen that show them calling for the execution of Trump for treason and another 30 that call for physically harming Trump supporters will you admit that you're wrong? Is that what it'd take?
And if not, why in the hell should I bother when you've already decided on your position?
No, no single low-upvote comment is sufficient to codemn a sub's userbase.
But what about thousands of comments both high and low upvoted about how (((jews))) are ruining things and multiple hundred independent references to gas chambers, hangings, and insurrection? That kind of does define a sub's userbase.
Then by your own standards you have failed to prove your case.
And its still funny, because even if there were 100,000 users who were racist nazis, that would leave, give or take, 500,000 users that weren't. And that's leaving aside the possibility that people are intentionally trying to give the subreddit a bad name by pretending to be Nazis.
You're still doing that thing where you single out the unpopular minority of truly objectionable posts/posters to smear the majority of contributers who you simply don't like.
Here, you give me a comment or two that has, lets say, 200ish upvotes that suggests gas chambers or something similarly evil and I'll start taking you seriously.
Please do the same thing to liberal subreddits then!
If it's so easy and it doesn't mean anything about the userbase you should be able to find 10 threats to send people to gas chambers in about 10 minutes.
OR you're full of shit and T_D is full of people who want to put people in gas chambers.
It's been over an hour since you said that. It took me 5 minutes to put together those threats. Where's your evidence of the same thing???
Iโve already done it with /r/politics and other similar mainstream subs, dozens of times over. They call for genocide and other acts of extreme violence with hundreds of upvotes on the daily.
And yet none of them are willing to filter out the hate or kick out malicious / violent members. They all knowingly and willingly allow the hatred to build up.
Also they literally revoked the rule against racism during the meme war against /r/sweden. That's pretty solid evidence about their character. That's the very same mods that decides what gets to be visible in the sub.
Do you actually think your opinion matters to me? No, I know you're brainwashed so I actually pity you and wish you would wake up for your own sake, honestly. I don't expect you to though.
Trouble is T_D is breeding new shit holes. One of which r/greatawakening has gotten to popular twice since this morning pushing flagrantly wacky evil shit.
I think the platforms need pull back their own branding and provide more control to advertisers on which channels/subreddits to advertise on. Look at what is happening to YouTube. If Advertisers would care more about individual channels and not insist on the entire platform changing for them the YouTube wouldn't have to shit on gun channels, for example.
It's absolutely a slippery slope. It's very possible that relying on this methodology is going to ruin Reddit and make it bland and boring.
I don't give a fuck.
I love Reddit, use it all the time. It's still not worth the continuing, documented, negative impact that TD is having on our country and our world. We asked, we fucking begged Reddit to take action on their own. The only recourse left is stopadvertising. Consequences be damned, I value the integrity of our society far far more than some stupid website.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:08:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well you see the main problem is they disagree with liberalism and reddit will tolerate degenerates and communists but do t you dare disagree with them to the right.
People want to push advertising to do this because they are feeling (and not without cause) that the people in power are politicians and corporate people. Politicians stopped caring about what a person says, only what is said loudest. In order to be loud today, one of the fastest and effective ways is to manipulate corporations into pushing things they desire onto other corporate or political enteties.
This is not going to be fixed ever until we the people actually take control of our government again and things are properly regulated by necessity for the people, rather than for necessity for the corps and politicians.
"Slippery slope" is a logical fallacy. Ending the hate farm that is T_D is not going to lead to the consequences you claim it will.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:27:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Does reddit hide ads when porn reaches the front page?
BobHogan ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:09:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I agree that the argument they use leads to a slippery slope. At the same time though, something has to be done to get that sub banned. it has been linked to multiple shooters in the past few years, was linked to the Nazi rally, has ruinied people's lives and more. Its a cancer on the entire country, and Reddit refuses to do anything about it.
I've done so many times in the past. You are more than welcome to dig through my post history and find them if you honestly don't believe that this has happened. But I'm not going to waste more time on that subreddit or those sources.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:37:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Presumably there are advertisers who would be alright with blowjobs but not with genocide advocacy.
I think that because Reddit allows you to personalize your entire experience by choosing which subreddits appear on your home page all ads should be good to go no matter what posts are around them.
Any subreddits that appear in r/all that wouldn't be appropriate for ads should just be banned from r/all entirely but left untouched otherwise.
You're 100% right. This argument is so easy to generalize to the entire medium of the internet. The internet is also full of reprehensible sites. Pedophile groups, animal abusers, supremacist movements. The beauty of the internet is it offers something for everyone, even if you're a racist misogynist scumbag. If you wanna start saying you shouldn't be allowed to organize in any capacity of you have questionable views, then I hope you'll be happy once your views become questionable and you're forced to live underground from now on.
Personally I'm all for getting rid of the-donald, but it has nothing to do with some misguided view of what an acceptable point of view is or whatever. I just think the_donald attracts low quality scumbags and I'm fine with private organizations curating their user base. Reddit doesn't need to have t-d. They can hang out on stormfront.
Porn is marked NSFW. It does not appear on /r/all to my knowledge (then again, I'm not subscribed and am always logged in, so maybe I wouldn't see it anyways).
t_d is not marked NSFW to my knowledge. I do not see much of it, as only distasteful stuff leaks out into my field of vision. Whether it is illegal or not, I cannot say. It's definitely in a firmly grey area and I think that, like porn, it should be labeled as NSFW and not appear on the front page unless you are subscribed.
I mean, come on, they took /r/atheism away from the front page for less.
lexrc ยท -17 points ยท Posted at 13:40:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Go take a look at it. Better yet, try posting some nazi stuff there. You'll get down voted and banned quicker than anything.
There's no nazi shit and no hate on td. It's a bunch of patriots that want to protect western values.
Lol "a bunch of patriots." They openly supported marching along Nazis in the Unite The Right march. They aggressively ban anyone who criticizes Trump. I'm actually banned there even though I've never posted, for some reason one day they banned anyone active in /r/centuryclub.
If I invited you into my house and you start insulting me, I'll damn sure kick your ass out. Of course in a public square, you have a right to say whatever you want.
"Rally sub" feels a bit white washing. It's an echo chamber, a propaganda machine. Hell, if I were to borrow their nomenclature it's a "safe space."
But I get what you're saying, it doesn't advertise itself as being a good spot for non Trump supporters to visit. Doesn't erase the irony of them bragging about their "free speech" cred while literally being a rigorously enforced single party sub.
Yeah, and/r/fallout is a place where fallout fans gather. And /r/movies is a place where movie lovers gather. And /r/gameofthrones is a place where fans of the show gather.
None of those places aggressively ban if you express the wrong opinions. What about this are you having so much trouble grasping? Yeah if you go against the grain you should expect downvotes, but it's a place that runs its mouth about free speech while aggressively silencing dissent and creating an echo chamber.
Your right to free speech is not threatened in any way. Go to /r/politics if you want to talk shit about Trump. It's "suppose" to be neutral sub. Subreddit's are run by individuals and and each have their own rules. You don't seem to understand free speech. Free speech in the context of Reddit would mean allowing all these subreddits to exist as long as they don't break Reddit's rules and not singling out any one community for bans for political reasons which of course Reddit has done lately.
Never claimed my right to free speech was threatened, just observed the irony in a ban heavy sub calling themselves "the last bastion of free speech..."
But dang, this is a serious candidate for the goalpost move Olympics.
Cool. Is "reddit" currently devoting their time to worshiping an obese child rapist who has consistently invited people into his administration that are extremely hostile to muslim people? Or are you just comparing a toaster to a fucking crocodile to be a quirky contrarian?
/the_Donald isn't really as bad as reddit makes it out to be. It's just a sub with a people like who support trump. I've never seen any racist or Nazi's related post be upvoted other than comparing modern leftist ideals to actual fascis, like the brown coats and antifa. Reddit seems to have created a narrative for the_Donald because it doesn't appeal to advertisers because advertisers are trying to push the same narrative, "they're the opposition because we don't like them" without any real evidence or facts proving the sub is as bad as they say. The truth is they can't find any real proof. Any evidence of fowl play people have is self manufactured.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 14:04:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
You can block them and go use the site for its intended purpose, and stop worrying about what other sub communities you don't participate in are doing.
wpiman ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:00:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I visited T_D because I live in a liberal bubble and like viewpoints that contradict what I usually hear. Yeah, there is some toxic stuff there-- but that is in the minority there.
It is like anywhere else; you need to separate the wheat from the chaff.
I'm certainly no expert but I believe the 'gating' on communities acts as a sort of barrier in that regard (i.e. NSFW tags, you have to confirm your age to visit certain subs, etc.). None of those exist for T_D. I'm not sure if that acts as a sort of kill switch for certain advertisements/brands on those subs but it may explain the discrepancy.
dangolo ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:25:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
As far as I know, all of reddit's porn content is legal, but there are plenty of advertisers who would nevertheless find it distasteful, and be risk adverse to promoting major brands on a platform that hosts that sort of content.
There is a massive difference between porn and speech that incites hate and violence. Just because they are both distasteful doesn't mean they are equally objectionable.
There's also a difference in the overall effect of Reddit's support. This site is the largest, most popular existing forum for hate speech. The exposure and legitimacy the group gains from being here is significant - compare to 4chan, where the behavior is expected because it's seen as basically the sewers of the internet. Contrast this with porn, which is ubiquitous and would be completely unphased without Reddit.
I hate Nazis as much as the next guy, but over-reliance on /r/stopadvertising's argument leads to a slippery slope.
Slippery slope arguments cut both ways. Social censure against Nazis hypothetically going too far and possibly leading to a bad outcome in no way implies taking no action whatsoever is the right choice against T_D, especially when inaction could (hey look slippery slope!) lead to the proliferation and normalization of actual Nazis doing whatever the hell they feel like on the site.
Arguing over-reliance on /r/stopadvertising's methods is a slippery slope is itself a slippery slope that could lead to a lack of action being taken against Nazis in cases when actions should be taken. Do we want advertisers to determine the acceptability of content on reddit, or do we instead want advertisers to be wholly unaccountable for funding a platform that enables the mass distribution of hate speech? That is a fuller picture the problem we're actually facing.
w41twh4t ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:50:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Killing all of Reddit is a small price to pay to shut down The_Donald.
I don't go there and I've never been there, but i can bear witness to the fact that everyone there is a murderous, raacist, sexist monster because the people they disagree with politically told me so.
Really, it's like advertising at a bazaar and expecting every single person there to abide by some external set of values. If you sanitize it, it's not a bazaar anymore, but a generic boring ass shopping mall.
there's middle ground between "sanitized" and "let's provide a mainstream platform for white supremacists"
7734128 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 05:12:30 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There's no middle ground between trying to silence those who you disagree with and free speech. Asking our benevolent corporate overlords to censor a political community is downright dystopian.
Then why has reddit banned anything? Even child porn?
Because that's speech, right? And asking the government blah blah dystopian?
If you support 100% unfettered free speech (including forced corporate platforms for said speech, aka reddit), then you must support the free exchange of child pornography.
See how stupid that sounds?
7734128 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:42:37 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That does sound stupid. Child pornography isn't speech, what have you been smoking?
The only time I hear about that subreddit is when people complain about it.
bat_mayn ยท 79 points ยท Posted at 16:29:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Because it's come to the point that no longer do people wish to personally filter things out so they can improve their experience, they now wish to filter things out so they can stop other people from seeing things they don't personally want them to see.
It's not that these people dislike /r/the_donald and don't want to see it anymore, it's that they want to remove it so other people don't see it anymore. As you've clearly stated, they're not doing a very good job.
Reddit has done a lot to keep it from the front page, meanwhile the 400 subs created to counter and mock it run rampant. So anyone wanting to avoid politics now just sees the obnoxious counter-subs to T_D spamming up the front page of the Internet.
[deleted] ยท 68 points ยท Posted at 16:20:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I have 23 subreddits filtered, each and every single one political and filtered due to trump posts.
I even had to filter out fucking /r/MurderedByWords because virtually every single post that gets high up on that sub has something to do with politics (like right now).
I'm getting really tired of this stuff. I want him out of office so I don't have to hear about it anymore. :/
memtiger ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 18:05:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's gotten to the point that these "anti" subs (and even this post) are causing a Streisand effect and directing new users to the sub despite Reddit's attempt at hiding it.
Shit, you don't even have to encounter counter-subs. Everything from r/pics is political, anti-Trump. They have completely made a majority of large subs to be overtly political and left leaning. Don't get me wrong, I'm a registered Democrat, and I'm not for Trump, but damn. It gets so redundant it's almost vomit worthy.
The algorithms were changed so people who aren't subscribed can't see it. The vote count was also reduced. There were days where there were 100k+ upvotes, now those same posts are at 8k.
Man, reddit is so full of hypocrites. So many people on here are mad that Youtube is bowing down to advertisers and demonetizing anything remotely offensive, but when it comes to reddit you want to do the exact same thing but make advertisers force them to censor anything you don't like.
T_D is a circlejerk sub dedicated to supporting Trump. They never try and deny that.
Iโm referring to all the people who get mad about censorship and bowing down to advertisers one moment, then turn around and demand Reddit does the same the next moment.
Could have folded me with their claims of being a bastion of free speech. Being a Trump supporting subreddit doesnโt change the fact that theyโre hypocritical in their โsupportโ of free speech.
Except that part where they claim to be for free speech in their own sub, and that you're free to speak your mind in there. And then bans everybody falling out of line...
Itโs been a while since Iโve gone to TD, but unless somethings changed, theyโve always made it obvious that their sub wasnโt meant for discussion or opposing opinions, just as a circlejerk for Trump.
They don't say they're "the last bastion for free speech"? That don't mean they claim you're free to talk without getting banned? Ok then, I guess archive.org's copies of TD is lying
JZSIX ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:28:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And the rest of Reddit treats t_d the same way...
Nobodys right nobody's wrong, two sides of the same coin
I agree but is there a point where a line gets drawn? Imagine if the current administration had to handle 9/11. We trampled all over our rights for privacy and that was under Bush, who didnโt run on a โkick em outโ platform.
If Trump and the current GOP are holding the reigns what stops them from destroying citizens rights? In the same climate as 9/11. Weโd have probably forcibly expelled naturally born citizens at worst, internment at best.
And thatโs just Trump. Iโm not a fan of him but I understand that he doesnโt directly promote the growth of white nationalism. But he sure as hell doesnโt do much to ease tensions. So what happens when we end up getting someone who is actually openly supportive of white nationalism? They arenโt breaking laws, but they keep pushing a radical agenda. Do we ever shut it down? Hitler didnโt violently seize power, he slowly built it up going through proper channels and gaining support for his radical way of thinking. What exactly is our Hitler protection?
Your 2nd Amendment is your protection, but your side is naively demanding that their rights be taken away.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:19:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Or, it's like there can be different groups of people on a platform who complain about different things. Or are the people in r/politics the same people in TD, all just being a bunch of hypocrites?
"It's not bad if it negatively affects the people I don't like" seems to be a widespread sentiment lately.
Faceh ยท 48 points ยท Posted at 14:46:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
I think we're deeper into "people I don't like/agree with aren't deserving of the same treatment as people I do like/agree with" territory. People know full well they're applying a different standard but don't care so long as it only affects their opponents.
There's a common saying by leftists, for instance, that "no bad tactics, only bad targets." Which is how they justify punching alleged Nazis or breaking windows of businesses or no-platforming a conservative/right wing speaker by pulling a fire alarm (note: not all leftists condone this).
So they don't care what method they use to stifle and punish their enemies as long as it it is only hitting their enemies (the 'good targets').
There's the truly tolerant left, who are fine with others thinking differently. Then there's the hard left, who think that the end justifies the means. They vilify/attack anyone who dares think differently. Unfortunately, the internet / social media amplify the strongest opinions.
Its shit. It really is. The BBC will literally apologise if one person complain about a program. A few people should not be allowed to have this much influence.
The BBC will literally apologise if one person complain about a program.
This is not true. The BBC logs all of its complaints, and it certainly doesn't issue apologies for all of them.
covor ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:44:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Are you for real? BBC openly defends Antifa, and when I complained about one of their articles doing so they were like: We don't see anything wrong with that article.
It might be possible that there are lots of people online, and you've actually got different people making different complaints. I mean, I know it sounds crazy that everyone on a website like Reddit isn't connected to some sort of collective hive-mind, but I just figured I'd throw it out there.
It's also possible that "he said a naughty word in his video" and "they planned a large-scale protest where they killed someone and injured many others" are different things.
These are two different things. On youtube, content creators often rely on advertisements to pay them so that they can continue to make a living. On reddit, users aren't getting any money from ads. Nobody has made posting here their job like many youtubers have. Demonitization isn't going to hurt the content creators like it does on YouTube.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:55:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
When every other thing has been attempted, and it is known Advertisers are the only thing that will cause Reddit admins to listen, it's a logical step.
That subreddit should have been banned ages ago. I'm a former default mod of /r/videos, and dealing with racism coming out of that subreddit specifically was a daily occurrence. I was exposed to it more than most, and I'm glad others are beginning to see it too.
Your comment is a classic distraction comment to shift the topic of the discussion to something else and keep people from focusing on the issue. This here is very different from the Youtube adpocalypse. They banned comedy and gun channels from making money with advertising. Those where completely fine channels without any issues. We talk about subreddits here that are infested with bots and wrong information and many post in their try to spread hate and fear.
People got so mad that the gun deals sub was banned, and in the thread so many people were talking about how they should ban T_D instead, with the only reason being because it was "toxic". I hate Trump and his ilk as much as the next person, but they need to be banned for a legitimate reason (I feel the same way the gun deals sub). Playing with advertisers doesn't seem like something that will end well for this website.
I feel like those of you who reply candidly and making balanced arguments are wasting your time. Op is probably paid for. We have the same kind of anti-trump threads over and over again.
I strongly suspect that if they are not paid, at most, let me stress, at most, these ops simply hate Trump with so much passion that they are thinking out threads everyday, but that sadly, they actually don't give a single fuck about islamophobia or any other -phobia.
If I have learned anything in life is that humans of all colors and at any end of the ideological spectrum really are self-serving pieces of shit.
Hazzman ยท 129 points ยท Posted at 14:46:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'd like to see evidence how T_D can be compared to Nazism.
It has to be beyond just wanting strong immigration policy, because then we can compare any conservative with Nazism and that's just asinine.
I want to see evidence that T_D supports genocide, unlawful invasion of other nations, censorship of information that doesn't conform to their ideology, mass surveillance and other heinous acts that are commonly attributed to that disgusting ideology... because this is quite an accusation.
Seriously, this. Anyone calling td nazisim is lacking insane disrespect to the seriousness of that part of our history and the amount of people who died to it.
Well, Trump's comments about Charlottesville seemed pretty clear.
"... Plenty of fine people on both sides ..."
Really? On both sides? Of a Nazi rally? Compare it to his reaction to Colin Kaepernick--it's instructive.
"They're not really Nazis! They just support a leader who think Nazis have a legitimate grievance!" is an argument you can make, but it's a distinction without difference.
[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 20:55:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
He denounced the KKK, Nazis a white supremecists after Charlottesville.
As I said on Saturday, we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence. It has no place in America.
And as I have said many times before: No matter the color of our skin, we all live under the same laws, we all salute the same great flag, and we are all made by the same almighty God. We must love each other, show affection for each other, and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry, and violence. We must rediscover the bonds of love and loyalty that bring us together as Americans.
Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 17:06:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'd like to see evidence how T_D can be compared to Nazism.
They had a sticky promoting the Charlottesville rally that actual Nazis went to and waved Nazi flags and wore Nazi armbands while yelling "Jews will not replace us!". I don't know how much more Nazi you can get.
The Charlottesville protest was against the removal of a historical statue. Just because neo-nazis showed up does not mean the protest was in support of them.
ljog42 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:54:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah right neo nazis show up at events all the time
Hazzman ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 17:28:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What percentage of those protests consisted of Neo-Nazis? Did T_D unequivocally throw their support by those Neo-Nazis specifically?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:39:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Just Google Charlottesville, there's tons of images of people waving Nazi flags, giving Nazi salutes, yelling "Jews will not replace us!", etc.
Hazzman ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 17:48:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm well aware of the Neo-nazi presence at the Charlottesville rally. What percentage of the rally consisted of Neo-nazis? Did T_D promote specifically the message and the presence of the Neo-Nazis or just the protests in general?
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:18:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I want to be perfectly clear with you guys that many of the people who will be there are National Socialist and Ethnostate sort of groups. I donโt endorse them. In this case, the pursuit of preserving without shame white culture, our goals happen to align.
From the first post I linked.
Hazzman ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:50:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I took a look at I can't find the person making the original quote, only a second hand opinion, which received far less votes in the original T_D sub compared to a person, rightfully, rebuking the statement.
Again, what percentage of the 'Unite the Right' protest consisted of Neo-Nazis and did the T_D subreddit officially endorse that percentages views specifically or was it supporting what it percieved to be a rally for conservatives?
Their forefathers fought the Nazis tooth and nail for this? Hitler's folly was that he was too impatient.
Little did he know that he could have called Nazism a sect of Islam and guilted all of Europe to take in the poor German citizens disadvantaged by the Treaty of Versailles. In 10 years they would simply vote Hitler Chancellor of Europe and not a shot would have been fired.
Then he could've massacred millions of Jews in the name of Allah and the Jews in America would side with him and even help him spread the third Reich.
Seems the biggest issue with the Nazis is that they were the wrong skin tone.
Poor Hitler! The only thing wrong with him was that he was white! Totally not the fact that he systematically murdered millions of Jews!!
I know this person was trying to make a joke about how white people are SO oppressed (which I don't have a problem with; people have rights to believe in whatever they want to believe). What I'm concerned with is that his joke accidentally reveals he has ZERO moral compass. Nobody who is sane would have fantasized about Hitler getting away with genocide had he not been SO unfairly targeted.
Nobody thinks the Nanjing Massacre or the Rwanda Genocide is acceptable in any way, except delusion white supremacist Nazis with simultaneously a superior complex and a victim complex.
As of the time I wrote this comment, his comment got +10 upvotes. Surely, not all T_D posters are literal Nazis, but they don't seem to have a problem with it. You may not be an actual rapist; just the fact that you sympathize with rapists and let fucked-up things fly says enough about yourself.
Joffton ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 19:11:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Uh, I think you missed the point entirely. He's comparing Nazism to Islam and pointing out the hypocrisy of accepting one hateful ideology while condemning another.
Maybe they aren't Nazis but they certainly are fascists but Americans refuse to accept that because then they would have to admit what kind of complete failure their shitty political system is.
Hazzman ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:06:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You are accusing half of the country of fascism. Based on what? Because they supported Donald Trump? Do you believe that anyone who voted for or supported Donald Trump can be accurately described as being fascist?
And what does your ideal political system look like?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:48:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
accusing half the country
Only 27% of the country voted for Trump. A majority of voters voted for Clinton.
Google crypto-fascism.
Hazzman ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:58:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And what percentage of the country voted for Hillary? I know it was more but the way you just worded that implies that 73% voted Hillary, which is obviously not the case.
So for clarity sake, you are accusing half of those that voted of being fascist.
Which goes back to the questions I had before - Based on what? Because they supported Donald Trump? Do you believe that anyone who voted for or supported Donald Trump can be accurately described as being fascist?
And what does your ideal political system look like?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:15:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
58% was the total voter turnout. So about 31%, which is 4% more. This is pretty close to the overall popular vote, which was three million votes more.
So for the fourth time in US history, the candidate that got the most votes lost the election.
You can support fascism without being aware you are. Google crypto-fascism.
Supporting Trump, based on his actions, the policies of his administration, and his rhetoric, shows a clear far-right authoritarian bent that goes far beyond the pale in any democracy. If Trump were to declare martial law and suspend elections, the vast majority of his supporters would still support him.
This is intolerable in either a democracy or a republic.
Hazzman ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:19:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, I understand what crypto-fascism is. Secret support for fascism.
What you are suggesting, it seems, is that every Trump supporter is a secret supporter of fascism, hiding their true allegiance to the cause for fear of being rejected by society or friends.
So again, I am asking you... anyone. Are we suggesting that every single Trump supporter is a fascist?
Yes or no?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:25:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, they are. They aren't aware of it, but they absolutely are. They are the psychological underbelly of the American people, the dark mirror of the American Dream.
That doesn't mean this is a permanent state; people's political ideologies can change, usually through compassion. But we shouldn't sugarcoat what is happening here.
Hazzman ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:29:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So if I ask any one of these people, "Do you support fascism?" and they deny it, they are wrong, they are fascists and you know them better than they know themselves... correct?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:41:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know what you're trying to claim here, but the truth is clear and obvious. We've been living it for years, now.
One thing I'm reassured by is the new crop of post-Obama liberals. As long as I've known them, liberals have been limp-wristed when it came to actually getting things done. It took deified figures like Obama to motivate even token reforms on our financial system, and getting a Republican health-care plan passed was like pulling teeth for a party of supposed progressives. So many arguments where liberals were wasting their time trying to justify their existence, infighting over dumb shit.
This new crop has way less of that. They don't just debate, they organize. They get shit done. They've already moved the needle on guns more than it's swung in over 30 years. They flipped blood-red districts and turned ruby-red states into tossups. I think, if I'm allowed to be insanely optimistic, that we could see a Democratic party that finally acts like genuine opposition to the Republicans. A party that actually puts their money where their mouth is and votes.
More realistically, we'll go to war with North Korea or Iran, rally around the flag and further cement the one-party-rule that grips Capitol Hill.
icepyrox ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 22:00:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Not who you are responding to, but:
Half the country isn't t_d. In fact, there wasn't even half of the US that voted for Trump.
And yes. Do you believe there are zero fascists in the US?
Oh and for a bonus answer: my ideal political system looks exactly like what the US political system looks like, except there are laws to enforce the original ideas within the system, such as restricting election financing, not allowing corporations to count as individuals, and creating more seats in the House.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:56:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They are literally the polar opposite of fascists. They want more individual freedom and LESS GOVERNMENT!
I don't dare step foot in there willingly, but I may start bookmarking any posts that demonstrate this. I've seen several posts where they borderline in some of these areas, but also admit I'm too lazy to search them again.
However, let's look at history and what you are calling evidence for. Nazism very much did a lot of the things that you are claiming, but we see the end results and it seems like you are assuming the stepping stones.
By that I mean that the rise of Nazism didn't just happen with everyone wanting to kill the Jews, invade other nations, censor dissidents, desire mass surveillance, and other heinous acts.
WWII started in 1939. Hitler had been Chancellor for 6 years. Before they truly rose to power, they didn't want genocide or unlawful invasion of other nations (although that is really way more akin to Russia claiming Crimea than I care to admit).
While we are at it, let's look at mass surveillance. That's more like a Russian thing in East Germany than a Nazi thing before the war. Feel free to prove me wrong.
To touch back on genocide, the Holocaust only occurred during the war. While there was some very anti-Sematic actions taken by Nazis, in the early days it was more about racism. The US is already full of enough racism and the white supremacy rallies I've seen associated with t_d (granted, I'm too lazy to offer proof) are very much similar to this. So if it is allowed to continue, just wait a few years and maybe someone will go genocidal.
So really, the only thing left to debate is censorship. On reddit, the mods are only allowed to censor what they have the power to do so. They don't bother to go beat up other mods as that is definitely criminal. Therefore, they can't censor outside of their own sub, although there is a demand for people to bring back gallows as a special place for those they cannot censor.
There have been a few /r/bestof posts that demonstrate the level of censorship on that sub. From entire chains deleted over the appointment of Bolton as National Security Advisor to people posting a left post to see it be deleted completely and the user banned in a matter of minutes.
So here is a group of white supremacists that censor anyone that doesn't fall in line and call for hangings of those they cannot censor falling behind a leader that congratulates Putin and wants to have friendly talks with North Korea that ran on a very nationalist campaign.
Calling them Nazis may be taking things a little far, but not by nearly the margin as your demand for proof would indicate.
The new changes have nothing at all to do with /r/stopadvertising and everything to do with FOSTA. Apparently a lot of people are completely unaware that this new law was passed last week.
mkosmo ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 13:50:52 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
FOSTA has nothing to do with gundeals going away. What are you talking about?
we are just bringing reddit to its inevitable conclusion. facebook 2.0! why do you think they changed profiles to be like facebook? they want to change reddit for the worse to make it more profitable and when that happens people are gonna move to voat or something more relevant.
Aikidi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:49:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Voat has the downside of only being a shit hole right now
JZSIX ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:17:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I really really doubt it. This sub is basically blackmailing Reddit with ads right now, who's to say they won't do it more after they get what they want? Heck, if I don't agree with someone, I can just screen cap their views with ads in a pic and blackmail them.
Yeah fall in line, the left is opposed to racism, hatred of Muslims, kids getting shot in schools. We're also opposed to slavery, segregation, and we support gay rights.
So yeah, the left is the 'moral majority' in that we expect people to at least meet the bare minimum of being a decent human being. If you don't currently meet the bare minimum expectations of being a decent human being then fuck yeah you need to step in line. You should behave in such a way that your grandkids won't be ashamed of you 50 years from now. Don't be on the wrong side of history.
Yโall love that donโt you? โDonโt be on the wrong side of historyโ. It lets you be smug and condescending while living out some sort of future fantasy where you wonโt have to deal with โbigotsโ and โnazis like Trumpโ in the future because now everyone else THINKS JUST LIKE YOU NOW. Wonโt it be great.
The left also believes that abortion should be a valid form of birth control, a six year old is old enough to take life altering hormones, it should be against the law to hurt someoneโs feelings, the constitution should be shredded and guns handed over to the government while at the same time calling the president a Nazi and all cops racist killers. The left believes that illegals aliens should be able to vote in the country theyโre in illegally (something even most progressive Europeans find baffling). And that they should be able to enjoy all the social programs paid for by tax payers. The left believes that all white men are (or just men in general) are responsible for all things bad in the world and should be thrown out of all positions of power in favor of those less qualified but with the right skin-tone, gender (or lack there of), or sexual orientation. The left believes that if youโre patriotic or show any pride in your country that youโre a โnationalistโ (like thatโs a bad thing in moderation).
The left wants America to be โless thanโ and to โfall in lineโ with the rest of the world. Theyโre embarrassed by our blessings and our achievements.
Okay, so there's a lot to unpack there. You have some very serious misconceptions about the left. You have created this imaginary political extremist that directly and strongly opposes everything you believe in and you seem to believe that everyone that leans politically left fits that image.
Yโall love that donโt you? โDonโt be on the wrong side of historyโ. It lets you be smug and condescending while living out some sort of future fantasy where you wonโt have to deal with โbigots'
That part is true, I agree with that. A world without bigotry sounds like a good world to live in.
and โnazis like Trumpโ in the future
Trump is not a nazi, but nazis do support Trump. Same with the KKK, Trump is not a member of the KKK but the KKK fully supports Trump. The reason for this is that those people believe that Trump will make things better for white people and worse for minorities and they support that.
because now everyone else THINKS JUST LIKE YOU NOW. Wonโt it be great.
That is false. The left wants to include cultures from all around the world. The far right are the ones that want to keep those people out. Anyone that doesn't look like us probably doesn't think like us and that scares the far right. The left opposes ideologies that want everyone to think the same way, in this case that ideology is Trump's and the far right.
The left also believes that abortion should be a valid form of birth control
Abortion isn't something people get every month because they don't want to take the pills or use a condom, it's way too expensive, time consuming, and painful for that, it's what is used when birth control didn't work, or cases of rape, or for people who really shouldn't have kids and slipped through the cracks of other methods. Even if there is some chick crazy enough to get an abortion every time she gets laid just so she doesn't have to take birth control pills or use a condom, fucking let her, that's better than letting her have a child. It's not something that anyone ever "wants" to do, but if they decide that they need to, it should be an option.
a six year old is old enough to take life altering hormones
If the parents, the family doctor, several specialists, and their therapists believe that the child should take hormone treatments then it's probably because that's the best course of action for the child. It's easy to judge others when you aren't involved. Also the hormone treatment is reversible if the child decides that he or she wants to go back to their biological sex. Surgery is always after 18 and even then it's very difficult and you have to jump through a lot of hoops to make it happen, it's not something someone would do without truly believing that they need it. Have some compassion, just because you didn't personally experience it doesn't mean it isn't valid.
it should be against the law to hurt someoneโs feelings
It's not the left that want's that, Trump wants that. "I'm going to open up our libel laws so when they write purposely negative and horrible and false articles, we can sue them and win lots of money.โ - Trump in 2016. Come on man, for someone with the username /u/TRUMP-TRAIN-2020 you really should know more about Trump's political platform. It's not even a difficult platform to know, just ask yourself "Will this piss off liberals?" If the answer is yes, then Trump and the entire Republican party probably supports it.
the constitution should be shredded
No one wants to shred the constitution. I don't even know how to respond to that.
guns handed over to the government
Only the far left extremists are calling for all guns to be turned over to the government, it's a very small group with little to no political power. I don't want them setting our gun laws anymore than I want the guys open carrying rifles into Starbucks setting our gun laws. Both groups are extremists and are equally ridiculous. A vast majority of the left is looking for a way to reduce the number of people that die from gun violence every year. The way to do that is to regulate the sale of guns. No fully automatic weapons sold to civilians without a special permit (that requires training and a background check to receive). No bump stocks or other weapon modifications that allow semiautomatic guns to behave like fully automatic guns. Require a background check to purchase a gun. Implement a list similar to the "No-Fly List" used by airlines to prevent dangerous people from purchasing weapons. No huge clips, if it takes 30 bullets to kill a deer you are hunting wrong. Huge clips have one purpose, to kill as many people as possible without having to stop to reload. Gun laws aren't really that complicated.
while at the same time calling the president a Nazi
The president is not a nazi, he just does things that makes nazis happy.
and all cops racist killers
Not all cops are racist killers, but we should stop protecting the few that are racist killers. If a cop shoots an unarmed black man that's laying on the ground and is clearly not a threat, that cop should go to prison for murder. The problem is that a majority of the time the cop gets a few weeks of paid leave until the press forgets about it and then everything is back to normal as though nothing ever happened.
The left believes that illegals aliens should be able to vote in the country theyโre in illegally (something even most progressive Europeans find baffling).
No one believes that illegal aliens should be allowed to vote, that's not a thing. Purely propaganda from the far right to make the left look bad. Europeans aren't baffled that people believe illegal immigrants should vote, they are baffled that you believe that people believe that illegal immigrants should vote.
And that they should be able to enjoy all the social programs paid for by tax payers.
I could see that, I would much rather my tax money go towards helping those in need than to be spent on the military. I even like having the biggest military in the world, but we could tone it down a bit, the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps are combined the world's second-largest air force, second only to the actual U.S. Air Force. Certain services such as police (basic safety), fire (basic safety), ambulance (basic safety), public school (children shouldn't be punished because of their parents decision), and food stamps (basic need for food) should be available to anyone in this country without exception. It's not like relying on social services is a good life. If someone is in a situation where it's genuinely better to illegally enter the US and live as an illegal immigrant, constantly in fear of deportation, just to get welfare, food stamps, and public school, I say fucking let them, that's just having compassion. It shouldn't be so difficult to become a citizen legally. If we made it easier to become a citizen we wouldn't have nearly as many illegal immigrants. They would have to pay taxes just like the rest of us.
The left believes that all white men are (or just men in general) are responsible for all things bad in the world
Just not true, as before with the guns thing, that's a very small group of extremists, not the entire left. Just like there are extremists on the right that believe that black people and Muslims are ruining America. A vast majority of the right doesn't believe that, but a small group of extremists do believe it (they are easy to find, they are the ones carrying swastika flags and wearing white pointy hoods at Trump rallies, sometimes they even carry torches).
and should be thrown out of all positions of power in favor of those less qualified but with the right skin-tone, gender (or lack there of), or sexual orientation.
That's just false. The left does not believe that. More far right propaganda trying to make the left look bad.
The left believes that if youโre patriotic or show any pride in your country that youโre a โnationalistโ (like thatโs a bad thing in moderation).
Also not true, all Americans should be patriotic. The right doesn't get to claim patriotism as a partisan issue and then say the left is unpatriotic. Democratic politicians still wear American flag pendants. Democrats have a much better ratio of American flags to confederate and swastika flags at their rallies than Trump rallies. Everyone wants to be proud of their country, unfortunately right now America has a lot to be ashamed of specifically regarding our president. America is the laughing stock of the world, that was not the case a few years ago.
The left wants America to be โless thanโ and to โfall in lineโ with the rest of the world. Theyโre embarrassed by our blessings and our achievements.
Not true. The left wants America to lead the world in social progress. We want America to be better than the rest of the world. We are embarrassed by the things that hold back progress: Muslim travel ban, border wall, moving the American Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem (basically giving up the idea of peace in the middle east), our president is currently in the middle of a scandal with a porn star and being investigated by the FBI for colluding with the Russian government during the 2016 election.
HARD PASS.
I truly hope you reconsider, your apparent fear and/or hatred of the left is not based reality it's founded from propaganda.
Wow that would almost be a good argument if r/shoplifting wasn't removed and if that wasn't a gross simplification of T_D. There are actual right leaning subs that aren't that cancerous, but saying that is like saying "Hitler was just a right leaning politician" lmao. Shoplifting cultivated petty theft and got shut down, T_D has literally cultivated violence and bloodshed but it's okay because $$$ and Trump is God.
balorina ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:41:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There are actual right leaning subs that aren't that cancerous
And those subs are ALSO considered hate subs, and once T_D is gone will be the next in the crosshairs.
What if I told you, that you can dislike both? There are a lot of bad subs on reddit, but this doesnโt mean we should put less effort in having t_d removed.
I hate defending TD, but every time I go there to see what they think about recent events, I come away they aren't as insane as I think. Is the sub hot garbage? Sure, but almost all political subs are. Does it have tons of cherry-picked data to present a narrative? Sure, but almost all political subs do.
I know there's a plethora of subs watching them and looking for every opportunity they can to find a site violation, but I don't know how damning what they are finding is, mostly because I don't care. TD doesn't show up on my feed anymore, so I don't care.
Honestly, I think if TD was banned, people like OP would just go to the next conservative sub and try and get rid of that next, and then it's just repeat ad nauseam.
[deleted] ยท 115 points ยท Posted at 15:53:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
/r/politics is actually worse, imo. T_D never claims to be anything but a pro-Trump circle jerk. /r/politics is ostensibly dedicated only to American politics, but 5 minutes on the sub will tell you it is almost as bad an echo chamber.
kent2441 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 22:48:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Show me where /r/politics called for the physical removal of blacks and Muslims.
Go find a r/Politics post where they are going around trying to burn the Jews or said minority.
r/Politics doesnt ban people for things like have a opinion. You might get rightly redeculed and downvoted for having a opinion but it's nothing like how T_D handles dissenters which is straight up getting banned.
Iโve had an account subscribed to t_d since the first republican debate. What in the everliving fuck are you talking about?! Go find me a post where itโs talking about burning Jews. Iโve never seen one since Iโve ever been there. Jesus Christ.
the trick is that T_D deletes the posts once it gets posted to other subs such as AHS but 9/10 times it gets archived.
[deleted] ยท 35 points ยท Posted at 18:34:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
top 50 of the worst shit. Nothing directly posted as "burn the jews" ill give you that. But threats of violence similar to it is said to other minorities.
Then stop being purposely misleading. You guys are so adamant about calling out fox and other news programs yet you constantly twist the words of people you donโt agree with so you can paint them in a bad light.
r/politics may not ban people but the far left extremeist subreddits ban people just like t_d. Hell you can get banned from them from posting in a subreddit.
Stop it with your facts! Clearly they're Nazis and Fascists and any other negative buzzword, simply because I disagree with their political ideals. It is much easier to throw these words around than formulate a complete thought or think for myself.
the same argument can be used to remove t_d: Reddit can moderate how they see fit, and will gain or lose viewers over it. Framing an entire website as evil is just hyperbolic bullshit though.
While I do think members of t_d community are the biggest hypocrites on reddit, I don't think they are "evil"- just assholes. However, I stand by their need to exist on reddit and we should fear people trying to silence them even if they silence their own people.
Yup. They certainly can. Reddit can do whatever they want with whatever agenda they want to push, and they will either win or lose dollars. My point was, simply parroting things like Nazi and Fascist at anyone who disagrees with you isn't an argument, it's just bullshit noise, and this sub just linked to someone who just made noise as if it's an example of the best of reddit. It's just garbage.
You're right it isn't, and the actions of the noise in this sub just makes all people who disagree with t_d look bad by association. Not unlike the tiki torch protestors caused everyone on reddit call t_d posters nazis.
I think you need to sub /r/AgainstHateSubreddits as you don't seem to be paying as close attention as you should. Sub to that and you'll see routine updates on t_d and just how awful they are.
bart2019 ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 15:22:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The problem with TD is that they ban everybody who isn't a complete Donald Trump fanboy. Yes I'm in favor of banning every subreddit where the mods do that.
You have no idea how many subs do this, thereโs quite a few. Thereโs a reason there are subreddits, and not just one giant facebook wall for everyone on the Internet to participate in.
Lots of subs so that, and they have good reason to: any sub that disagrees with the average redditors world view will turn into a shitshow whenever a post is popular enough to hit /r/all. Trolls would come in all the time and derail the conversation. Just look at how many subs are dedicate to mocking T_D. Brigades are basically inevitable.
Reddit is also allowed to ban t_d. I don't like that they have the power to shut down communities they don't agree with, but the site is privately owned. Whether or not you or I like it is irrelevant.
Reddit is allowed to do whatever they want. The problem is, there is a difference between saying "T_D is breaking site rules, ban them" and "I don't like T_D, ban it". I have no problem with the former.
They could always add a new clause to their TOS the day they are forced into banning t_d. I say "forced" because I don't see reddit ever voluntarily shutting down t_d.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:51:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It is a 100% Trump support subreddit. If you don't support Trump's policies you get banned. Simple. It is a circlejerk. Frankly anyone who spends their time directing hatred and spreading false information about them is an abysmal human being and should get off reddit entirely.
So anybody who acts like they did with pizzagate should get off reddit entirely? What if t_d doesnt support reddit's policies- should it be banned too?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:53:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit did ban the pizzagate people and TD cracked down on it as well.
Reddit admins have dug this hole for themselves. By actively policing content and banning subs instead of simply remaining a neutral platform, they now are seen as culpable for the subs and content they do allow, and setting a precedent that possibly makes them complicit when they don't take action. It seems lose-lose but this is their new reality.
This is a bad idea. Bringing the sources of revenue into this is akin to introducing the atomic bomb to the world. You can't take it back once the advertisers are here and pulling their funding, and you can't decide what they're going to want to pull funding from next. What happens when, while they're here, they say "we don't like this Sanders guy, please pull funding from /r/sandersforpresident."
I get what you're trying to fight by doing this, but this is a destructive way to go about it. You're going to see Reddit suffer the same issues as YouTube has, except it's not a couple creators that are going to get hit, it's the site itself. You'd kill the meeting grounds because sometimes undesirable groups have meetings there.
And for what? To make Reddit a safe space where only perfect views can be shared? I do not support the actions of t_d, but I absolutely do not support their banning from the site because people don't agree with them. Don't subscribe to them, and don't view their content, if you don't want to see it. But if you're viewing /r/all, you have to know that that's a representation of everything in the community, not just your specific circles. I think people can be smart enough to make their own choices about the media they wish to consume.
Iโm a bit confused. I donโt sub to the Donald and honestly have never gone there before now. I didnโt see any hate speech or so called Naziโs. Obviously itโs posts from right wing redditors but I didnโt see anything hateful from the posts or from the the top comments. Can someone point out what Iโm missing?
novacham ยท 134 points ยท Posted at 15:21:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The comments section in your average r/politics thread are more toxic than anything on T_D.
probably because they were annoyed by your disingenuous bullshit "ban all guns" straw man (nobody is calling for the banning of all guns).
i'm pretty sure that the guy was just pointing out that the assault-style weapons you insist on clinging to aren't going to help you win an insurrection. regardless, you don't see replies like that on the_donald because, surprise, they ban all dissenting opinions. you do see plenty of the cult of trump saying disgusting, hateful, violent things you rarely, if ever, see in /r/politics.
Yeah, judges are people and political animals too.
Elufson ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:50:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It doesn't matter if he's wrong. That is irrelevant. The replies he recieved are downright disgusting and there is no excuse. Try pretending to be pro-Trump in a few comments there and you will see it all for yourself.
Believe me, I agree that discourse is at an all-time low in this country. But itโs bullshit to play the โboth sidesโ card when it was Trump and his ilk that pushed us over the cliff.
Elufson ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:55:59 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You just contradicted yourself within a 2-line comment.
Elufson ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:42:39 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You agree that discord is low and its a bad thing. Then you make an unsubstantial claim that can only lead to poor discourse. You are causing poor discord.
[deleted] ยท -43 points ยท Posted at 16:04:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
lmao says the the_dildo poster. truly an unbiased source of information.
novacham ยท 52 points ยท Posted at 16:07:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
lmao says the the_dildo poster.
Thanks for proving my point. <3
[deleted] ยท -40 points ยท Posted at 16:11:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
you are not the brightest bulb? lol are we are in a politics thread right now? whatever you need to feed your delusions i guess. have a good brigade dotards :)
So you're an asshole in this sub but a complete saint in /r/politics?
[deleted] ยท -28 points ยท Posted at 16:27:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
im an asshole in every sub. what i do as an individual user does not prove any sort of general trend of a sub. pretty simple stuff but i know it is hard for you. :)
[deleted] ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 16:44:47 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Didn't you just dismiss him outright doing exactly that?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:51:38 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
i dismissed him by saying he was right about me being an asshole? lmao such a weak brigade
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:01:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
^ Here is a prime example of a hateful person who doesn't respect others and is incapable of having a conversation.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:54:34 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
i donโt respect people who support our dotard president. respect is earned not given freely. obviously trump supporters like you have a hard time understanding that :)
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:57:45 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe you should take the time to listen to people.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:03:24 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
i am listening to you now no? when has listening to liars ever been productive? hint: it hasnโt
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 07:37:17 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What have I lied about?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 08:40:35 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
try to keep up. i am listening because you havenโt lied. that doesnโt go for the other thousand the_dildo posters in this thread :P
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:58:23 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
by making a comment in the post โtheyโ are allegedly brigading? so people would have to already be in this thread to see? i donโt think you know what brigades are ๐
70sBulge ยท 199 points ยท Posted at 14:10:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
spend enough time there and you'll actually see a good bit of compassion, support, pro equality, etc.
if i went on a thread in T_D and said something like "i hate jews" or "fuck Hispanics", I'd get downvoted into oblivion and banned.
One thing is that all of reddit hates T_D so much, that I imagine people do go on there just to try and make them look bad. It makes it hard to take all the "look what I found on T_D" seriously.
There was a post on the front page with over 10,000 upvotes from one of the anti-Trump subs where they had a screenshot of Obama being hanged, posted on r/The_Donald with 0 upvotes. It was totally faked.
I mean, it's been proven that people that post to againsthatesubreddits do this. They've gotten better, no longer making a post and taking a screen shot literally within seconds.
It's become the Boogeyman. All over this site, people talk about how it's so evil, racist, etc, but haven't ever actually gone to the sub. It's all just people repeating what other Redditors said about it.
It's not really my cup of tea, but the amount of people with an irrational hate-boner over a circlejerk sub is insane. All just because it's pro-trump.
If I wanted to block all the pro-trump content on reddit, I would block T_D. If I wanted to block all the anti-Trump content on reddit, I would have to have to block half the defaults and a dozen variations of /r/trump_sucks(/r/esist, /r/againsthatesubs, /r/topmindsofreddit, etc.).
Reddit doesn't really lend itself to diversity of thought (ironically) thanks to the up vote system, but it is getting a bit much.
I've blocked everything and I have to debate blocking politics too because it's so irritating and toxic. Might have to ban Canada too now that Americans have invaded it and turn every conversation into a trump debate.
Reddit is not just the US, he lost the popular vote by 3 million, and many of those votes were because the other candidate was unelectable. Trump is historically unpopular.
Elufson ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:53:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Certain people will not allow Trump to be normalised. In reality he hasn't done anything wrong. But imagine reddit talking like Trump is okay or average. That is unacceptable from their perspective.
They ban any and everything that doesn't fit the mod's agendas, so I'd take it more seriously there than most places. But yeah this OP is way overboard.
One of my top rated reddit posts is a T_D shitpost. I remember seeing my inbox filled with lots of similar fun shitposting and occasionally there would be a blatantly racist comment. When I actually looked at the accounts making them though, they were brand new accounts made solely for that one comment and the comments were all deleted and the accounts banned by the mods within a few minutes of being posted. The fact that people outside of T_D consider these blatant false-flag posts trying to get the subreddit banned, while the mods immediately clean them up, as a genuine reflection of the sub is pathetic.
and if i compiled the 50 worst posts from so so so many other subs, you'd be sick to your stomach.
look, im not saying everyone over at the donald is a saint.
what i am trying to convey is the general consensus over there.
every group in the world has a percentage of people who just fucking suck. you probably have at least one family member that is a garbage human being. but no one would say your family sucked because of it.
I have posted pretty extensive proof that racism in that subreddit at times is not only prevalent, but also encouraged and accepted, definitely not banworthy. And the best you can do is deflect with anecdotal evidence.
Iโve seen a lot of stuff about the obamaโs But Iโve seen equally the same about Trump. So do you think that would be hate speech as well or are those the type of posts people on the left would like?
Yes. The implication is that soy contains phytoestrogens, so they have a feminizing affect on men, so soyboys are weak willed, effiminate men, as if that's somehow a bad thing.
JZSIX ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:32:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe to some it is, everyone can think their own thoughts, please don't assume what i believe
Well, it has to do with idiots thinking that soy contains phytoestrogen (which it does) but also believing that the pyhtoestrogen has a feminizing effect on men (which it doesn't. It's not estrogen, it just resembles it's chemical structure). Not because liberals drink lots of soy.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:20:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I have seen some nasty stuff from using an extension that displays reddit comments on videos, but just because it's nasty that doesn't mean it should be banned without a legitimate reason.
Yes, clearly the real issue is people commenting in anger following a terrorist attack, not the circumstances that allowed the attacks themselves to become so frequent in the first place.
Terrorists are not stupid people. They know they cannot defeat something like the US government. However, they can inflame a population into conflict with each other, encourage them to clamp down on their own rights, and in the long term create unrest against the own police state that they constructed to keep themselves "safe."
If you fall into the trap of xenophobia, hatred, and paranoia because of an isolated incident, you have allowed the terrorists to win.
dangolo ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 15:05:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
We know thereโs people who are racist bigots but why is it ok to label a whole group as Nazi racists? Iโm sure if I went on some liberal subs I could find some things that could be considered hate speech. The fact that liberals are perfectly fine with censoring a certain side scares me more then people who say things that Iโm offended by.
JZSIX ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:34:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But usually the bad comments don't get up voted that high? It's the same as if someone went to /r/liberals and said we should all kill jews, and some how got like 50 upvotes, does that represent the sub as a whole?
dangolo ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:51:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Represents the mods failing at their jobs at the very least.
JZSIX ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:09:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So who's to say the td mods aren't omniscient and can't read every single comment?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:41:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Bad comments should be reported and if they aren't the sub is complicit.
JZSIX ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:46:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If a random user came and said I hate Jews, how long do you think it wil be before it gets removed if it gets removed? Have you read every single comment in this thread? What if I told you I wrote an offensive comment with another account on this thread, can you find it?
I just went and looked at your 1st example and didnโt see anything about extermination of illegals. They said eradicate which I took as put a stop to. While I donโt agree with their stance on immigration I would in no way consider this hate speech.
These people hate TD and trump so much they go looking through the comments to find anything racist or hateful. Then they archive it, even though it gets down voted by td itself or removed and then tout the sub as hate speech.
TD is just an echo chamber, no more harmful than /r/politics.
you've been here for 4 years and claim to have never seen TD's cesspool of hatred show up on the Front Page via their upvote bots?
derek_j ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 14:13:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The only upvote bots I've seen are ones like this post. This is terribly generic and low effort even for the liberal circlejerk, yet still has 1600 upvotes in a couple hours.
lol; sometimes for professional reasons, I am awake and online 3am EST for several hours.
Vast majority of America is sleeping; but yet, somehow magically posts show up on TD overnight, at 5am EST. Receive a few comments but have thousands of upvotes within 30minutes.
America is mostly asleep; but guess what, that is office hours in Moscow
derek_j ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 14:37:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So you subscribe to TD. That's the only way you would see their posts.
It bothered me for a while; now it is very amusing.
Best fun I had was capturing a TD poster many words who made a threat on the life of Mr Mueller, and reported them to the authorities. That was enjoyable for myself.
Followup: take last Thursday, TD posters, 100s of them, all thumping their chest Trump (they call him Emperorgod btw) would certainly Veto this horrible $1.3 Trillion Budget that Congress passed. They listed hundreds of reasons why it was horrible. They proclaimed Emperorgod Trump will never sign this; and Veto it.
Friday morning, they are repeating this like a mantra.
Trump signs the bill, and anyone who protested how Trump let them down was banned, or comments deleted.
The next day, they are talking about Trump's 4D chess in why he signed the bad budget bill.
They are also famous for deleting entire threads when Trump does something like this, promise X, and do Y.
I seriously believe Mueller's cyber crimes guy has swept up stuff from Facebook, Twitter, and little ole Reddit in regards to Russian attempts at CyberWar.
Well I donโt spend all my free time on Reddit. Second I typically donโt side with right wing politics so why would I seek out the Donald? Obviously Iโve heard of people complaining about it but it was never something I was interested in looking into until today.
JrodManU ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:58:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Hateful comments never get upvotes over there. (Unless you consider political issues you disagree with like building a wall "hateful")
Itโs like freedom of speech only applies to the things you want to hear. If something is said that you donโt like, you gotta shut it down. I am in the โliberal progressive democratโ category but my own kind is fucking scary in the 1984 kind of way all on its own. Everyoneโs lost their goddamn mind. Obviously, Iโm going to get downvotes for this because Iโm not participating in the outrage theater.
Agreed. I mean, I get it. We got played. Plain and simple. But we deal with a challenging time by irrationally panicking and blaming everyone around except for ourselves? I know we can do better.
What positions are you talking about? I think they are doing a good job arguing for new gun laws while it seems like the right's only real argument is holding on to an outdated amendment.
"I demand gun laws!" is the extent to which I've seen anyone articulate their position. Many of the laws they seek are already in effect. Then you have shit like this that Democrats proposed in the House which is a clear violation of the 2nd Amendment:
Maybe people say such a simple statement as "I demand gun laws!" Because they don't know what to do and a relying on the "law-makers" to decide the best option. I think most Americans know something needs to be done but are not sure exactly what.
I do think their idea is to change the second amendment though. I think it's 100% outdated and was made with musket militias in mind. Our Founding Fathers did not account for the destruction that can be carried out by one deranged individual with legally bought weapons. Slavery was an Amendment that was changed so why is this one so untouchable? As someone on the right, what's your idea to stop all these mass shootings?
The 2nd Amendment allowed the colonists to have freaking cannons and seige weapons. Your "outdated" argument is invalid.
And to answer how to stop all these mass shootings: a basic root cause analysis.
If access to firearms was the issue, we would've had this problem for at least 60 years. That's how long automatic rifles have been widely available to the public.
So it's not that.
Just the other day a school shooter was stopped by an armed school resource officer before they could follow through on their rampage. That sounds like an effective deterrent.
The FBI knew about pretty much every mass shooter and failed to do anything. The Pulse nightclub shooter's own father was an FBI informant for crying out loud.
Why does the FBI consistently fail? Why did the sheriffs office in broward county consistently fail?
My theory: mass shootings further their agenda. They don't want to stop them.
Once we're disarmed they can finally implement the police state.
What we need is community engagement to hold these parties accountable to do their damn jobs.
The majority of mass shooters did not have a male role model. We need to stop destroying family values.
We need to hold people responsible for their actions and stop blaming the tools they use.
There is no accountability anymore. Everyone thinks their failure is someone else's fault, or that they have an entitlement to be taken care of by society, or that they don't have to stay in their marriage, or raise their kids right, or that the government is responsible for it.
And that leads to the frustration and instability that motivates these people to kill.
I'm not sure if you were being serious or ironic by listing siege weapons (trebuchets?) and canons as not being outdated.
But more to the point. You still haven't given your thoughts about what should be done, if anything, regarding gun laws. Is it fine to turn a blind eye while more children get shot down in one of the few places they are suppose to feel safe?
Cannons are siege weapons. My point is that even back then someone could've blown up a school with a legally owned cannon.
We should have an armed police officer at schools. It would serve two purposes: community outreach for police to make relationships with the kids they protect and serve, gain their trust and be a role model, and to serve as a deterrent for anyone who tries to do something terrible. Problem solved. Why do you think nearly all mass shooting occur in "gun-free zones"? The perpetrator knows the victims will be sitting ducks.
In any case, it is unreasonable to pass a law infringing the rights of millions of people to prevent something as extremely unlikely as being killed in a school shooting. Especially any laws that restrict access to rifles, which are used in a tiny tiny fraction of violent crime. The real purpose of banning rifles is so the powerful can exert even more power over people without any chance of resistance.
denshi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:00:56 on May 1, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Slavery was an Amendment that was changed so why is this one so untouchable?
Slavery wasn't an Amendment, it was simply the norm all over the world and throughout recorded history. Slavery was simply assumed up until it was banned; the word 'slave' doesn't appear in the Constitution before the 13th Amendment.
As for what distinguishes between the 2nd and 13th? I'd venture to say that the 2nd, like most of the BoR, covers natural rights that the Constitution merely recognizes; moreover the 13th was written in a similar spirit by peoples with a more thorough consideration of freedoms. Repealing either Amendment would impinge upon natural rights (and would thus be very difficult to enforce).
It's a historical book about the gulags in Russia. Tens of millions of people were arrested and sentenced to hard labor mostly without having committed crimes. The author suggests that if some of the population had been armed and fought back--ambushed the police-- the whole thing would not have been possible. Unfortunately most were unarmed and went along like sheep.
bart2019 ยท -17 points ยท Posted at 15:27:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs like freedom of speech only applies to the things you want to hear. If something is said that you donโt like, you gotta shut it down.
What the fuck are you talking about? The T_D mods ban everybody who says something they don't like.I've been banned without ever posting anything on T_D.
T_D is not who should complain about being suppressed. Because they do it themselves all the time.
Try to go /r/politics , /r/esist , /r/EnoughTrumpSpam or any other anti-Trump Subs and post something that's pro-Trump. You'll see the same result. They are banning everybody that's pro-Trump too. Does this mean they should not complain about being suppressed?
Just because T_D are banning those who are anti-Trump, should we follow suit? No! In fact, we should show them the best of us. Let them come, talk with them, debate with them, change their mind if you can, not suppress them.
By suppressing them, you are ignoring the problem, not eliminating it.
I'm banned in several subs automatically because I have posted in r/The_Donald. I am banned from r/worldnews permanently for defending Trump. I am only allowed to comment once every 10 minutes in r/politics because I posted contrary evidence to their rhetoric.
perry147 ยท -20 points ยท Posted at 16:40:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If someone acts like a nazis can we call them a nazis? Or is that too politically incorrect?
[deleted] ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 17:06:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
perry147 ยท -22 points ยท Posted at 17:09:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Are you saying T_D does not have white suprematist in it?
[deleted] ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 17:12:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
perry147 ยท -22 points ยท Posted at 17:17:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So obviously my question struck a nerve. Sorry it was not my intent. Here is a nazis pillow to cry on I will even light some tiny cross candles for you (redneck scented of course).
[deleted] ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 17:21:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
perry147 ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 17:30:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The pillow is also lined with a water resistant barrier, this keeps the tears from sogging it up.
Also we offer as a bonus gift a bowl of authentic bullshit to eat. It can be eaten room temperature or stuck into yours an ass and then eaten for an added treat - we really donโt care.
I agree just because I donโt like you do not mean I label you as a Nazi. Like there was this guy who drives slow in the left land every morning and makes me late for work - I do not call him a Nazi.
If on the other hand he had nazi bumper stickers and flags all across the truck, I played white suprematist loudly, and had a freaking swatstika as a hood ornament - even maybe just maybe we need to call a nazis a nazis and not pretend a hope it goes away.
There has always been racism but that it is becoming more main stream is dangerous.
This isnโt about protecting free speech this is about not giving voices to those who hate.
Hyndis ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:36:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If on the other hand he had nazi bumper stickers and flags all across the truck, I played white suprematist loudly, and had a freaking swatstika as a hood ornament - even maybe just maybe we need to call a nazis a nazis and not pretend a hope it goes away.
How many people in the US is that, I mean really?
The number might be a few thousand, tops. When a KKK rally happens they have to fly in people from across the country to try to make any sort of numbers, and even then, they're pathetic, tiny rallies.
Even if every single hardcore white supremacist lived in Florida and all of them voted there are so few of them they'd still have difficulty making a difference.
The way its described every GOP member is a Nazi. That would mean there are something like 60 million Nazis currently in the US, which is of course absolute lunacy. There probably weren't even 60 million Nazis in Germany in the early 1940's.
They can cry all they want but โthe chickens have come home to roostโ , the party was lost several years ago and now embrace such positions that until now could only be whispered behind closed doors. Now it is part of the party platform. Heck there is literally a Nazi running for office as a Republican ( look at lay weeks politics) - this would have been completely unheard in the Bob Dole GOP, and certainly would not have with Reagan. The GOP has to stand up to this stuff and others like the David Dukes in the party.
The GOP might have to burn down in order to find their roots, and you know what I got some marshmallow ready.
Hyndis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:32:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Was that the guy who was literally the only name on the ballot for the office? He'd win by default.
Local races are remarkably easy to win. There is very little competition for local races and it doesn't take a lot of time, effort, or money to win them.
That no one else bothered to show up to put their name on the ballot is a problem. Thats pure apathy.
-video: "Democrat candidate for Sheriff suggests killing people to take their guns"
-video: (ostensibly, link didn't work for me) Muslim migrants in London shouting "This is our country now, get out."
-"Build that wall" pepe and Trump on a "wall bond"
-"Obamacare has been the law for three years, stop trying to change it." "Yeah, well, the second amendment has been the law for 222 years..."
I'm gonna stop because I gotta get ready for work, but um..... well there's what's hot on TD right now, make whatever assessments you want based on that raw data. Personal opinion, I don't see anything resembling hate speech.
[deleted] ยท 81 points ยท Posted at 14:34:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
a massive number of people in this country are massively xenophobic and racist and voted for the candidate most like that.
is a true statement. The vast vast majority of people in the country are good people who want the best for them and their families. I live in one of the most conservative states in the country and while yes thereโs a few old folk who are racist, etc itโs not common or socially accepted at all.
Also the vast majority of people who voted for trump were voting against hillary as they believe she would have ruined the country in a worse way than they thought trump might.
The problem with that argument from my point of view, is that if people are supporting policies that negatively impact people of color and further contribute to their marginality in our country, they are participating in racism.
They very well may have no negative feelings about people of other races, but the impact is the same. I realize that most people are well intentioned, but the road to hell is paved in good intentions. If you're supporting policy decisions that maintain the status quo, you are cosigning racism.
That's ascribing intent, and it's unfair and dishonest intellectually. That works as a personal standard, but you can't hold people to that if they genuinely disagree that a policy is racist
No I'm literally doing the opposite of ascribing intent. I'm taking intent off the table. I don't care if people intend to be racist when they support racist policies. The resulting impact is the same. I hold people accountable for their actions and the consequences of those actions, not what they were intending to do.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:30:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's a terrible reason to support a political candidate. Especially one so obstinantly divorced from reality.
Osiris47 ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 15:13:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I obviously did my research into each candidate, I'm not an idiot. I merely mean that joining that subreddit was due to the atmosphere there.
Started off as a mild Bernie supporter right off the bat, until I looked deeper into each candidate's platforms. Having voted for Gary Johnson and Ron Paul in previous elections, I'm hardly dedicated to a political party. I despise a large majority of politicians on BOTH sides for their blatant corruption and disregard for their constituents.
We are in agreement that most/all candidates are garbage. I'm sure we equally despise Hillary. Nothing could convince me that voting for a white supremacist was a good idea though.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:46:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:17:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Nah, I don't want to get into insults. I would rather have an honest dialogue. I became a Trump supporter only because I decided to open my mind to the idea that maybe he wasn't what the media portrayed him as. So I did my research for a couple days on all the candidates, their history and policies, and decided that Trump was being misrepresented and slandered by the media.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:09:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yep, that's a good one. I'm glad that post was removed and the community all said that was a bad idea.
The good news is that mod is no longer with T_D team (they do monthly rotations I believe, and that mod deleted his account) and that idea was never allowed as universally everyone else thought it was a horrible idea.
I don't think the entire sub is openly racist like the mod who posted that thread, no. And I think it's safe to assume that many of the upvotes on the remaining comments came from within the sub, brigading notwithstanding. However, the post itself is still highly upvoted- again, brigading notwithstanding. That indicates a large portion of the userbase being fully supportive of that attitude.
Ekaros ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:52:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You are doing well on those aspect I take it?
[deleted] ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 14:34:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
jayywal ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 15:55:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
yes, because islam is completely devoid of any nuance and nobody who follows it is anything other than a member of isis and anything that claims otherwise is fake news, obviously
your inability to think critically is beautiful and tragic
Yet,Extremist Christian terrorist cells are forsure a fore-front of today's Terrorist ordeals, Right? There's a difference between having things in a book and actively acting them out. I have yet to see mass killings of gays, and the retroactive suppression of women in majority-christian countries.
collinch ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 20:14:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You post things like Investigate Seth Rich. It's not surprising to me that you see fun times all around on t_d.
Seems like a bunch of idiots posting stupid shit. If we wanna ban stupidity thereโs a lot of other subs that should get the axe first
Fullwit ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 15:04:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Seems like a bunch of idiots posting stupid shit.
If you mean this as an insult, that's ridiculous. There's only like 2 big subs I can think of that don't look like this(albeit dedicated to their respective topics). It's just a Reddit thing. It's not some shitty td specific culture.
Okay now I'm confused. I always hear that it's a hate-mongering Nazi filled sub that is constantly planning some type of genocide, somebody has actually said this to me before. From this it appears that it's pretty much like any other sub that doesn't take itself too seriously. At least it doesn't appear to be the cesspool that the politics sub has become. I'll never understand where all the hate for that sub comes from. I would guess it's from all the people that's still cry everyday over Trump getting elected.
Wait, you actually went there, and looked for yourself? You mean the subreddit that supports the President of the United States, the Bill of Rights, hates terrorism, hates sexual violence/child abuse, and supports the rule of law.... ISN'T a Nazi hate sub?! COLOR ME SHOCKED!
Yeah he raped his ex wife (his lawyers fought to have it declared legally not rape because it was his spouse which is obviously still rape) and he's molested many others
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 18:31:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Wrong. She said she felt mentally raped and now denies saying it at all. It was from a deposition from his divorce that has been conveniently destroyed. He has never been charged, tried or convicted of any crime.
http://puu.sh/zPUnY/842f844ea0.png
(this one was removed by the mods, so kudos to them. I include it because I had previously said this post existed, and wanted to prove it.)
So, no violence there. I'm sure some of you will say "oh, but he's threatening to take our guns!" No, that's a photoshopped sign. But the denizens of The_dotard instantly resort to threatening violence, without even bothering to notice that it's very badly photoshopped.
jtunzi ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 15:09:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
The votes are curiously omitted
Edit: Adding a link for the full context. These posts are upvoted, but they are also in response to a message that is threatening violence.
I was trying to avoid calling people out by including their name, and it was easier to just avoid screenshotting that part, instead of blacking out their name.
jtunzi ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:33:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Fair enough. I say call them out if they are willing to speak their mind in a public forum.
Yeah, but I didn't want to get in trouble with the admins, so it seemed safest to just omit their names.
jtunzi ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 16:54:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You also omitted the fact that these posts were in response to an image of a protester who was himself inciting violence. (His sign reads, "Okay, we will pry it from your cold dead hands!" which I interpret to mean "We are going to come kill you and then take your guns".)
I'm not saying the responses are justified, but I would expect a violent backlash towards a perceived violent threat in any community. Violence begets violence.
Also I'm not sure what rocks have to do with children.
(also, the sign is photoshopped. badly. Also, when I pre-rebut your objection, make a different one.)
jtunzi ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:37:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Sorry, I skipped right to your images and mostly ignored the second paragraph. If I did read it, I ignored its contents since I hadn't seen the post it was discussing yet.
"oh, but he's threatening to take our guns!"
You are omitting the part where he's threatening to kill them first.
But the denizens of The_dotard instantly resort to threatening violence
Responding to a threat of violence with violence isn't quite the same as threatening violence out of nowhere. I think you should avoid name calling, it brings you down to their level.
I wasn't aware of the bucket of rocks thing. That seems like a silly idea so I can see why someone would make fun of it. I don't think that poster was suggesting that children armed with buckets of rocks would be coming to seize his weapons, but rather poking fun of the "logic" that a bucket of rocks is a reasonable defense against armed criminals. (Though to entertain that thought, rocks + slingshots would be much more effective than nothing.)
without even bothering to notice that it's very badly photoshopped.
I couldn't tell it was a photoshop. If the sign is photoshopped then why is the guy wearing a necklace with 2 skeleton hands? What does the sign say in the original?
I also don't see how it being an artifical construct has any bearing. The entire image could have been illustrated and you would get the same response. (Of course it is disturbing that people are creating material just to rile people up and I agree we should be more discerning before grabbing our AR-15's pitchforks.)
Okay, i did the best I could to find the image, and google can only find it in relation to people putting it up to complain about it. No news organization wrote about it. So i don't know how they'd find out about it, unless they went there, and found the one guy at the one march that had the sign that had vague references to violence.
My point wasn't that they reacted to an incredibly vague, and non specific to them, "threat" of violence with more violence, like masterbating over the thought of a civil war, instead of saying "that's just one guy" or "Hmm, that doesn't look right." Nope, it's straight to "Just give me a chance, soyboi"
I can't find the original, which is odd. It's possible it's not related to march for our lives (a search for orange jacket sign march for our lives didn't bring anything up, nor did a search for orange jacket sign, and a reverse image search only found that picture in relationship to alt-righters complaining about it.)
It does seem to have come from /pol/ and I think we can agree that they're not the most trustworthy source on the planet, and maybe we should view images coming from them with a ton of scepticism. You may ask "how are they supposed to know it came from /pol/"? Why....the same way I did. By taking 5 seconds to do a reverse google image search. What, you think I just have cosmic awareness, and knew it?
i don't know why he was wearing too skeleton hands, but you'd have to wait an awfully long time for flesh to decay to that point, and that seems like a waste of time when all you want is the guns.
As for the children with a box of rocks....you're making excuses for them. It's 100% a reference to school kids being given rocks to defend themselves. For one, march for our lives was started by school kids, and they're the vast majority of those taking part in it. So they're making vague illusions to killing school kids who are armed with rocks. And no, i don't think a bucket of rocks is a reasonable defense against armed criminals. I don't think giving everyone guns to protect themselves are either. When this coutnry has nearly as many guns as it has people, yet still has one of the highest incidents of murder per capita of any modern, western country, I just don't see how anyone can claim guns make people safer.
jtunzi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:26:54 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They got trolled hard and responded in circle jerk fashion. Yes their responses are antagonistic and hateful. I'm with you there 100%. I don't want to stand by their words, I just wanted to point out that I thought you painted them in a worse light by omitting a critical piece of context.
By taking 5 seconds to do a reverse google image search
Go on... How are you interpreting the results of a reverse image search to determine the original entry point for this image? Does it show that the /pol/ posting is the oldest?
i don't know why he was wearing too skeleton hands
Could very well be photoshopped too. I believe skeleton hands were selected because they illustrate "cold dead hands" the most clearly.
you're making excuses for them
I have no interest in defending them, I'm calling you out for intentionally misrepresenting their comment.
It's 100% a reference to school kids being given rocks to defend themselves
They are referencing that event, but children defending themselves with rocks has nothing to do with the topic of the thread, which is an authoritarian government forcibly de-arming their populace. Here is the rational behind it:
"Lol, my political enemies on the left think that kids with buckets of rocks will be able to stand against a shooter"
"If they are that dumb I bet they would think they can show up with a bucket of rocks when they come to take muh gunz"
Obviously there is some flawed reasoning there, but I don't think it's logical to suggest they wanted to kill children. Why would the children with buckets of rocks show up to take their guns? They are pointing out the silliness of the rocks vs. guns idea.
For one, march for our lives was started by school kids, and they're the vast majority of those taking part in it
That has nothing to do with the comment which only talks about guns being better in a fight than rocks. Also, the bucket of rocks defense was started by the school administration, not students.
I don't think giving everyone guns to protect themselves are either.
So what is your reasonable defense against armed criminals?
When this coutnry has nearly as many guns as it has people, yet still has one of the highest incidents of murder per capita of any modern, western country, I just don't see how anyone can claim guns make people safer.
Guns per capita has been going up while murders per capita has been going down, how do you explain that? If you lived in Baltimore which has a murder rate 10x higher than the national average, would you feel safer if you owned and carried a gun or would you feel more threatened?
I would also think that a country with 300 million privately owned firearms would be harder to invade than a country with 0 privately owned firearms. This argument also works for a tyrannical government taking over.
If countries with low per capita gun ownership are so easy to invade, why hasn't anyone done that to say, Canada? Or the UK? Or any african country? Or any asian country. Or south american country. Or european country...oh, wait, there's one exception to that. Russian invaded Ukraine.
I guess to wrap up my thoughts: I included the context. I possibly should've included the original picture in my response, but it's not like I didn't even mention it. I feel I was fair to them.
jtunzi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:33:26 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Canada
Geography, proximity and allegiance to US. I also think it's too cold for anyone to want to go there. (This is partly why military campaigns in Russia have failed.)
UK
Largely geography and plus they have been the world superpower for much of the past few hundred years. An invasion was planned during WW2.
any african country or any asian country. Or south american country. Or european country
See European colonization. Many of these countries were invaded and occupied for decades because the invaders had more guns. China and Korea were occupied by Japan during WW2. The socialist government in France outlawed most firearms right before WW2 broke out... (whoops).
Russian invaded Ukraine.
And Ukraine does have a fairly low ownership per capita.
If you are referring to recent history, it's mostly due to the stability that has lasted since the end of WW2. If the US and allies withdrew forces from the rest of the world, I bet you would see things destabilize quickly.
The guy I'm responding to said that The_dotard is against violence. I gave him 6 examples from one thread, of people basically masterbating over the idea of shooting liberals. People aren't making claims about other subs, so your statement is meaningless. If someone said that /politics is anti-violence, and someone found a lot of people advocating violence in one thread, then yeah, you'd be right. But people aren't claiming that.
Iโm just confused. What does it matter what people claim? People can โclaimโ anything. Just because there are no left-wings on reddit that say left-wing subreddits promote violence doesnโt change the fact that you can find several radical liberal comments in those threads that make pretty rash statements. Extremism on both sides is ridiculous, you canโt deny that.
Okay. Let me restate it, in an attempt to clarify: Someone made a claim, I refuted that claim. People aren't making similar claims about other subreddits, so the fact that you can find similar statements in other subs doesn't matter.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:27:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You screenshotted comments. There isnโt even any proof they came from TD. How many upvotes did they have. Who even wrote them? You are very low energy.
I put more effort into my post than you did, and I'm low energy. Sad!
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:44:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You Ommited all the facts though. You cherry picked a few comments and didnโt even show how many votes they had or that they were even from that subreddit. Not sure why you wasted your time. Get the permalink, archive it and get back to me.
I explained that: I didn't want to call anyone out by including their name, and it was easier to just exclude that part, then it would be to use photoshop and black their names out.
I find it interesting that you use convenience as the explanation for the omission of the only two pieces of information that could be used to invalidate your evidence.
A +1 score on a ten minute old comment advocating for violence is a damning piece of evidence in your favour? I think not.
Um, is it incredibly hard for you to go to the thread, and do a cntrl-f to search for some of the words in the pictures, and find the scores for yourself? I'm sorry. I didn't realize I had to put in as much effort as possible including all the evidence you claim you want just to have you find another excuse to completely dismiss my evidence.
Go on /r/politics for a little bit. Itโs the exact same sub except the opposing ideology. Thereโs a bunch of dumb asses and a few people who actually have some well thought out points.
Pretty sure it states in the community guidelines that is a pro-trump sub and not a place for discussion. Thatโs why there is r/AskThe_Donald. I only go there because itโs the only place to read something that isnโt โTrump let a fart squeak out before he could make it to the bathroom...IMPEACHโ
jayywal ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:24:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You just described an echo chamber and a safe space simultaneously and completely without irony
Xetios ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:57:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So are you saying we should ban all echo chamber and safe space subs? There are many.
jayywal ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:47:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No. The_Donald always talks about echo chambers and safe spaces while being exactly that.
It's because of how the sub is under constant brigade. If they didn't ban people in this manner then there wouldn't be a sub at all. The mods admit that they are too heavy with the bans, but don't know an alternative.
Exceon ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:48:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So why permaban people just asking why comments are being deleted?
Because the mods are not paid and they don't have the time to sort crap out in the middle of a brigade. If they don't do a sufficient job moderating then the sub would be banned as they are held to a higher standard. That's a difficult job when you have leftists coming on and posting inflammatory and racist stuff just so they can report it.
They mostly give temporary bans. If you think they made a mistakes, message the mods.
Exceon ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 15:30:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There's literally posts on AGH that are just screenshots of 1 minute old posts with 0 upvotes and then they claim that's proof of it being a hate sub, when it's clearly the same guy that posted that
Everyone says this like there isnโt an overzealous group of people dying to go over there and piss in their cereal and take a shit on their doorstep all the while acting incredulous when told they are not welcome.
As much as people call it a cesspool, they sure are eager to splash around in it.
It's not just that, but there are Redditors who use an alt profile that deliberately go in, post inflammatory, racist, sexist bullshit, screenshot it, then post it to the Trump Hate subs saying "Ermagerd! See what was posted in T_D! It's a Hate Sub that needs to be shut down!!!!!"; even though within moments of being posted, it's deleted by the mods, or taken down by the very poster that put it up. It's a game of cat-and-mouse that's continuously being played.
Reddit does not have balanced political engagement - one side is usually far more popular on issues that come up.
The mods in that minority subreddit have to run a tighter ship than the subreddit of the majority to keep in on-track, as opposed to relying on votes to seperate the wheat from the chaff.
I love the right claiming to "hate terrorism" as if that's taking a stand on something. Who doesn't hate terrorism? Who's out there marching in favor of child abuse?
Boring straw men. As for the Nazi/hate part, I'm sure people were just confused from that time the sub promoted marching alongside Nazis.
Canadians, and Europe giving assistance to returning ISIS fighters seems like a pretty good example to me. Oh, and Trudeau giving the American killing terrorist a couple million dollars.
And then there was also the news TODAY of how Sweden made child marriage illegal.....AND FACED POLITICAL OPPOSITION.
Holy shit, I'm getting downvote brigaded in real time, this is wild. I was at -1 after 40 minutes, and suddenly jumped to -14 in 5 minutes after I edited my post with a link.
Why is you getting downvoted a brigade? You made a bad post and people are downvoting you for it.
Also, why did you quote American Psycho jokes?
[deleted] ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 14:10:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:29:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But I want so badly for them to be true. That would simplify my life substantially and I wouldn't have to dialogue with my countrymen.
[deleted] ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 14:20:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:32:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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[deleted] ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 14:40:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But there is one overriding culture: The American Culture. It's based on the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, not the rantings of a syphilitic lunatic pedophile.
[deleted] ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 14:50:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not worried about the past or the future. The problem is right now. Right now 70% of pakistan muslims are imbred; you agree with me on that. You agree that when you imbred over and over a host of issues arise from that. You'll also agree that the quran allows cousins to marry and that when done multiple times in succession its a big issue.
So there's one instance of Islam causing a big issue in the world and hurting those who follow it, in a real tangible way.
There is no single answer here. Education is definitely useful but other measures have to be taken as well.
I did not say you agreed with everything, I said you agreed with the percentage of imbred. I can safely say you agreed with that by you saying "The first is due to", which necessitates acknowledgement of fact. No words were put into your mouth.
I ditched the other stat since I couldn't find. I worry about censorship personally. However I still have plenty of evidence of why Islam is toxic and evil, so I can still use that. To get caught up on lost evidence and ignore the heaps of evidence elsewhere is disingenuous so don't go down that route.
The case of Sierra law shows that support for it decreases in Western countries, indicating that the West influences Islamic immigrants more than they influence the West.
I should hope that we are stronger than Islam. I should hope that the west can take care of the people fleeing from Islam and culturally convert them. I can care about the people under the evils of Islam. I might even go as far as to say that I can see some wisdom in some of the words, but despite that I won't ignore its evils.
And of course eastern countries would feel more of the opinion of Islam. Its closer to its core and as it spreads opinions increases, and populations move in and create enclaves, and the enclaves supress populations and to enact more laws and it all rolls down hill
London has a muslim mayor and muslim enclaves and you can be put in jail for criticizing Islam online or real life, right now.
There has been rape gangs. Contrary to popular belief its mostly men and young men who are refuges. ISIS has said that was their plan all along. As ISIS collapsed they probably just went in the migration wave that happened.
Also the crusades were a response to the systematic Islamic conquests of Christian provinces. Ever since its conception Islam has constantly sought conquest and subjugation.
A bunch of islamaphobes that don't like Sweden being the rape capital of Europe with no go zones and daily grenade attacks?
Except ofcourse they deliberately spread misinformation and lies about Sweden such as it being the "rape capital" with "no go zones" and "daily grenade attacks". And they blame this all on non-white Muslim migrants. The Nazis did similar things about Jews.
Denying that real problems exist significantly weakens your position. No, it's not a war zone, but that does not mean that they don't have any issues. They have made many mistakes from which we can learn. Just because people acknowledge certain problems exist does not mean that they would accept gassing people as an acceptable solution.
No, it's not a war zone, but that does not mean that they don't have any issues.
Ofc they have issues. It's a country, every country has issues.
Just because people acknowledge certain problems exist does not mean that they would accept gassing people as an acceptable solution
But blaming non-white migrants through lies and misinformation is a deliberate tactic of a specific group.
The grenade attacks happen somewhere closer to every other day to every three days according to the media
Explosions yes, and some are grenade explosions yes. But T_D and others blame it on migrants, specifically non-white migrants who they accuse of being Muslims and that that is the reason for these things happening. Even though the groups that have access to these weapons are mostly Eastern-European and Swedish biker gangs.
There are no go zones, all you have to do is search youtube for examples. This guy who is not on the right, but has integrity went there a year ago to investigate and did a good job of exposing what people are concerned about
There are no actual no go zones. No YouTube video or any proper evidence has been given of areas where people cannot go. Even Tim Pool, being as dishonest as he was being with his Sweden tour, did not find any areas he could not go to.
Swedish biker gangs control much of the illegal weapon's trade in the country. And weapons like grenades they get from their suppliers in Eastern-Europe where such weapons became easy to get after the tumultuous fall of the Soviet Union and the subsequent wars.
c) If you want to talk about propaganda then perhaps we should start with the mega corporations that control the media.
kn05is ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:13:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Now try and go on to their sub and prove them wrong with evidence and join their conversation. Their idea if free speech is an insta ban on anyone who doesnt agree with them or can instantly disprove all of their lies.
I wonder if you're being downvoted because people don't think TD does that, or if they believe those claims are true and disagree with the claim that they're lies.
3 of the top 5 deadliest mass shootings in U.S. history happened since 2015. The U.S. has five times the amount of public mass shootings than the second most prolific country - the U.S had 90, the Phillipines at number two had 19.
The U.S. has 5% of the world's population, but 31% of the mass shooting events.
Yeah, my point was those stats discount some of the most deadly mass shootings in the world as they don't have the past few years. If they were up to date, they would tell a different story.
This tells you nothing -- some countries heavily skew the stats.
It tells you how significantly overrepresented the U.S. is in terms of number of mass shootings is.
The U.S. has more mass shootings than any other country. If only looking at per capita deaths from 2009-2015 explains this away for you, then fine.
I'm not going to quibble over different stats, I was just pointing out you're in a massive bloody glass house if you're an American criticising violence in Swedish society.
For a period of two years a few gangs, mostly motorcycle gangs (not majority immigrants) used some dozen grenades, ALMOST NONE actually hurt people because the were almost only used as a scare tactic. They were used almost exclusively in areas were no people were present. It's basically an unusually stupid fad among the criminals.
Now compare the numbers of violent crime with actual injured victims instead.
I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy is all. We all know the majority of the content on reddit is controlled to push a certain agenda and anything that doesn't fit that is downvoted to hell. It is all filled with it's own form of hate speech and misinformation to fit that agenda and narrative.
I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy is all. We all know the majority of the content on reddit is controlled to push a certain agenda
Just because majority of the people on the site disagree with you doesn't mean it's controlled to push a certain agenda.
Reddit is filled with a younger crowd from the US. Causing them to be more liberal, more critical of religion, and more critical of the US (because they're part of it).
It's not a controlled narrative. It's demographics.
It is all filled with it's own form of hate speech and misinformation to fit that agenda and narrative.
It's really not. Also, nice deflection to whataboutism. "The hate speech on T_D is OK because other parts of Reddit have their own form of hate speech." (Whatever the hell that means)
That's not what I'm trying to say at all really. I'm not trying to deflect anything or defend anyone. Just my observation is all. Hope you enjoy the rest of your day.
In the thread about the photoshopped image of the guy saying "We'll pull them from your cold dead hands" there are calls for a civil war, with at least one guy begging trump to start one. If that's not a call for violence, what is?
lexrc ยท -35 points ยท Posted at 13:35:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You must be a nazi if you're not triggered by all that hate.
[deleted] ยท -17 points ยท Posted at 13:45:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yet I also see communist and far-left rhetoric on r/all on a daily basis, which could be considered just as "dangerous" as the ideas on the other side of the spectrum. I am not a t_d poster nor do I like the general gist of what's posted there, but why have one but not the other?
Then go ahead and make a post about how to warn advertisers about Reddit posts calling out capitalism and whatnot. I'm not stopping you. I'm merely pointing out why people consider T_D a Nazi hub
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 14:40:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:55:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:12:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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jayywal ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:32:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
the poster-child white supremacy site. guess which candidate they support fervently?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:50:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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jayywal ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:00:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
yep, cause hillary definitely ran on a platform of outlawing white supremacy altogether, right?
Have you actually gone to AgainstHateSubreddits, TopMindsOfReddit, ShitWehraboosSay and other subs and searched for content from T_D? Because if you did, you would know there are.
What you consider Nazi ideals is in fact not
Blaming Jews for the destruction of the white European race and culture seems pretty Nazi to me. In fact, Hitler himself said this is part of his worldview.
There are a large numbers of Muslims in particular European countries that have massively increased crime now
Muslim crime rate is below or at the average, no more than other groups.
are now in fear of this growing crime but can't speak out
Yes, they can. Speaking out against crime is not a punishable offence.
Britain is arresting people who speak out against THE CRIME and the people committing the crime
No, Britian is not arresting people for speaking out against crimes. In some instances people have been arrested because they made specific threats to groups or people, instead of speaking out against the crimes themselves.
rape crimes going through the roof.
Rape crimes are not "through the roof" in Europe. They are pretty average when compared to most Western regions.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:33:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Are you serious about the Jew thing? Donald Trump supporters love Jews and love Israel. Netanyahu is one of Trumps close world leader friends. We celebrate Judaism on that subreddit.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:17:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Sweden's population has grown. The quote does not mention crime rape or rape rate, as that would have to take into account population growth. Nor does it mention that Sweden has repeatedly changed their definition of rape and how rape cases are handled. For example, even if a rape complaint turns out not be true, it is still kept on the records as a rape statistic.
If you want to know the actual crime rates, you can check out the detailed statistics published by Sweden themselves over the past 20 years. You will see the number of crimes of rape for example have gone down, as have the convictions.
Also, Gatestone Institute is an actual propaganda outlet, that regularly peddles in fake news.
Not sure what this has to do with blaming migrants or Muslims:
The report added that Franceโs overseas territories had the highest incidences, with French Guiana in first place with one reported rape per 2,000 people.
Caribbean islands Martinique and Guadeloupe โalso have particularly high levelsโ, the newspaper said.
โParis follows just behind, with 600 rapes reported in 2014,โ the report continued.
And it also gives the reason:
The ONS ascribed the rise to better police procedures and a greater willingness among victims to report crimes committed against them
See, you have no evidence they are Muslim, you have no evidence they are migrants, your own links say that other territories are taken into account and say why it has increased, yet you want to blame non-white Muslim migrants.
It's this disregard for actual facts and understanding of legal definitions, legal systems, and statistics that hubs like T_D and far-right groups perpetuate, because they want you and everyone to blame specific non-white groups.
jayywal ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:30:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"If it isn't muslims it must be coincidence"
the guy above you provided all the info for a sound rebuttal but all you have is this. aren't libruls supposed to be the ones that hate facts? aren't libruls the unsteady and mentally unstable ones?
Literally all those posts are made by people of those subreddits, screenshotted and posted on there saying "look, here's proof!!!!!"
I browse T_D multiple times a day and I never have seen anything hateful or a call for violence. I know those two subs get those mixed up with the truth, but the truth doesn't care about your feelings.
Your very prior comment said it was real obvious which posts here were TD brigades. Which should mean then other posts aren't. So you should know by this very same way you identified those really obvious brigades.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:59:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah but I never saw any of that guys posts other than one post asking if I thought he was brigading or not.
In 1978, the ACLU took a controversial stand for free speech by defending a neo-Nazi group that wanted to march through the Chicago suburb of Skokie , where many Holocaust survivors lived. The notoriety of the case caused some ACLU members to resign, but to many others the case has come to represent the ACLU's unwavering commitment to principle. In fact, many of the laws the ACLU cited to defend the group's right to free speech and assembly were the same laws it had invoked during the Civil Rights era, when Southern cities tried to shut down civil rights marches with similar claims about the violence and disruption the protests would cause. Although the ACLU prevailed in its free speech arguments, the neo-Nazi group never marched through Skokie, instead agreeing to stage a rally at Federal Plaza in downtown Chicago.
From the ACLU's own website. Whether you find it objectionaable or repulsive. Free speech is free speech. If they were to remove T_D for being objectionable to sponsors where do you think latestagecapitalism would end up. Where do you think hundreds of other subreddits that don't offend you, but offend the corporations would end up? Standing up for free speech is not when you agree with what they say, it is when you stand up for the right of someone to say something that you find objectionable and repulsive.
Be careful the path you choose. Allowing and pushing the censure of one thing opens the door to your voice being silenced.
Damn you werenโt kidding. Seems like itโs OP full time job
azns123 ยท 80 points ยท Posted at 14:28:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Here's a fun thing to do if you use RES. Every time you see one of those sensationalist anti Trump posts appear on the front page, tag the user. If you browse /r/all a decent amount you'll see them appear multiple times a week. Then if you check their accounts you'll see that it's all the same, 1 year old and over a million comment and link karma. Then you can make an inference, do these people have absolutely no lives, or are they paid to do this all day?
This site is a political battleground. Both sides are spending a lot of money to get share of view and opinion. Its a pretty fucking horrible user experience to be honest.
It's almost as if I don't give a fuck about winning over the hate mongers in the_dotard. Oh, no wait. It's exactly like that. (spoilers: they think anything that doesn't allow them to do whatever they want, whenever they want, is oppressive.)
They'd probably would say something like this: "T_D loves Israel because it's a place where all the Jews can go and that will make their country free of Jews."
Which I think is stupid, since T_D says that Israel is the bastion of Democracy in the Middle East, and that they love the Jews and others who made it possible.
[deleted] ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 14:49:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 16:29:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 17:01:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It is. But hard censorship of rightist material on the internet is a recent phenomenon exasperated by the 2016 elections. People on here need to grow up and accept that opposing POVs is healthy for our society .
memtiger ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 17:58:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I don't frequent The_Donald since i block all political posts. Can you show me some recent threads (not replies) where they say certain races are inferior?
Btw, saying "no to immigration" is not saying a race is inferior, so those types of posts don't count.
It's just as correct as "liberal ideas led to communism and starvation" if we're really going to go through history to label the perpetrators of crimes against humanity through the lens of the modern American two party system.
More accurately, conservatives just fucked up modern day America.
Selvon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:17:06 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I got banned from t_d for pointing out that guns don't reduce rape, that america has the similar or higher rates of crime and such.
This was in a thread where their response to the latest gun shooting was that Britain still has knifes and acid attacks. and that removing the guns would cause crimerate to go up and thre'd be rape everywhere etc
covor ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 17:46:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There is nothing wrong with it, except that it makes fun of the SJWs and Marxists. And they defend most of Trump's stuff.
I joined t_d a month or so ago, and I really can't see any racism, hate, etc. Unless if you are a 'microagressed' snowflake SJW. If you don't believe it, just go and give it a try.
I think the main point of argument is that T_D is portrayed as a Nazi white supremacist safe haven full of hate and evil when in reality, you visit T_D and see nothing but shitposting, jokes, memes, and a lot of support for the president. Any content that is against t&s is quickly taken down.
I feel the reason a lot of people, mainly those who are in the middle of the road or moderate left leaning, are starting to support Trump or at least back him, is because the left side of the political spectrum has gone full insanity hysteria mode to the point where they employ the same tactics they preach to hate so much.
As a non American, I'd say I would have 100% voted Obama in '08 and most likely Clinton in '16. But after seeing the left decay into the mindset of making a massive deal out of anything even remotely related to Trump, censoring any conservative opinions under the guise of "it's racist and hate speech" even when blatantly not, I'm honestly not that surprised Trump won, and even less surprised he's gaining popularity.
As others have pointed out, there is large amounts of hate in non conservative subs as well. r/politics being a good example.
All in all it just comes off as hypocritic where the left scream and shout about how bad racism, fascism, sexism etc are, and yet happily use those tactics against those who don't side with, defending those tactics as "OK when we do it because they're the bad guys"
magus678 ยท 58 points ยท Posted at 15:01:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
the left side of the political spectrum has gone full insanity hysteria mode to the point where they employ the same tactics they preach to hate so much.
I've actually found it kind of impressive how quickly they've managed to go full tilt.
I sincerely doubt I will ever vote Republican, and certainly never for this president. Presumably, my vote should be quite easy to win for the Democrats.
But they are still, somehow, managing to bungle the easiest layup in the history of politics.
I don't need them to be perfect; sadly, I'm stuck just choosing the "least bad." I'll probably vote Democrat the next chance I have but it will only be because the opposition is so bad. I could be easily convinced to stay home next time.
But they are still, somehow, managing to bungle the easiest layup in the history of politics.
The 2016 election was a free throw. It should've been easy but Democrats still missed. Now it's a wide open fast break and the layup doesn't look good. It's infuriating to watch. It's like nobody realizes if you treat people with respect you can get through, if you call them an inbred racist Nazi you close that door forever.
[deleted] ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 15:50:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is what's the most disappointing for me. In real life all my liberal friends are fantastic but liberal leadership seem to be demonizing me for thinking differently than them.
sandbrah ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 15:59:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Your vote should be an easy one for the dems? Maybe the "Trump supporters are white men with small penises" signs at the rally yesterday will finally convince you right? Pretty persuasive discourse from the left. /s
magus678 ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 16:25:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe the "Trump supporters are white men with small penises" signs at the rally yesterday will finally convince you right? Pretty persuasive discourse from the left.
Exactly. Unless there are very serious changes in the party, they'll have me for exactly as long as it takes to Un-Trump the White House, and no longer.
It's all quite sad really. I was hoping 2016 was going to be a bit of a come to Jesus moment for both parties, maybe get some serious housecleaning done after some introspection.
Instead, Trump actually won, and the Democrats are doubling down, somehow regressing even more. What a sad state of affairs.
I feel the reason a lot of people, mainly those who are in the middle of the road or moderate left leaning, are starting to support Trump or at least back him, is because the left side of the political spectrum has gone full insanity hysteria mode to the point where they employ the same tactics they preach to hate so much.
Not sure where you're getting the idea that this is happening. Trump has had consistently abysmal approval ratings. There is no shifting of moderates or centrist liberals to support him.
There is a lot of distaste among more centrist liberals for pro-censorship leftists, but that has been the way of things since PC culture took off in the 80s and 90s.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 21:20:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I voted for Obama twice. also voted for Trump and will vote for him again. He is the only one with an agenda. Average Americans don't want to pay high taxes and have sanctuary cities.
It's amazing to me that people who live half way across the country or in places without much immigration have such strong feelings about it half the country away. Like who gives a shit what Los Angeles is doing? I live in NYC, why should I concern myself with them? Same thing with people in Upstate NY who get mad at illegal immigration in southern border states.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:53:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I live in a sanctuary state. I want immigration reform so the people who live all around me donโt have to live as second class citizens.
Most candidates have an agenda. Like maintain America's status in the world, so we can exert soft power instead of military force. Or participate in large, regional trade deals so that we can compete with powerhouses like China. Increase our influence in Asia. Improve our infrastructure and public education so that everyone has an opportunity. Keep taxes low, but make sure that the extraordinarily wealthy contribute a fair amount.
Trump only seems like he has an agenda because his proposals are only 1 sentence long. And they stand in stark contrast to reasoned, nuanced plans that liberals and conservatives alike can support.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:32:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No his agenda is the complete opposite of everything you just said. The left wants the Obama / Bush agenda which is just insane. Trump wants Immigration, tax and healthcare reform. Real reform. No bandaids. Surgery.
Is that right? Immigration reform like "more people from Norway?" But seriously, the only important thing he has done on immigration is reverse the Dreamer policy so that congress has to fix the issue - but they haven't, so it was a bad plan.
Healthcare? Same plan. Starve Obamacare so that it's no longer functional and hope that congress will replace it. But that's harder than it looked. So he's stuck, and a lot of people who depend on Obamacare are screwed over.
Taxes? What reform has been delivered, other than a huge, permanent corporate tax cut and benefits for the wealthy? Lower tax for the highest brackets, tax-free savings for private school parents, gutting of the estate tax? They threw us some crumbs, reminding me of W's stupid tax refund checks. Reform is about changing the system, not getting a few hundred dollars back for the next couple of years.
Universal health care is reform. Standardized, efficient, secure immigration is reform. Fair tax policy that eliminates huge loopholes is reform. That's what we were on our way to. Now it's chucked in the toilet because Trump said he could supply the best reform, and he hasn't done a damn thing.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:04:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No he wants immigration reform legislation. Merit based immigration, No more immigration lottery programs or chain migration and strong border security. He is asking for those things and as a compromise will give the 1.8 million dreamers amnesty. He wants our immigration policies to be more like a normal first world country.
Healthcare. Donโt force people to buy health insurance. Create more competition by opening up health insurance markets across state lines. Heath savings accounts, etc.
The average American will save in the thousands. Small business owners get the 20% discount on their passthrough income. As a business owner myself I will pay half of what I paid last year. Lowering the corporate tax just makes us more competitive with the rest of the world. Letโs not mention doubling the standard decision and doubling the child tax credit. The only people who suffer from this are people who pay high SALT.
First. We werenโt on our way to universal health care. Obamacare was written by the health insurance companies and was a sweetheart deal that allowed them to keep their monopolies and force Americans to buy their product.
Second. Immigration reform would be standardized, efficient and secure.
The tax policy is fair and it encourages business. You canโt solve all your problems by just taxing the rich because theyโll find a way not to pay or they will just straight up leave.
Our country is in phenomenal shape right now and it is rife with jobs and opportunity.
Yeah, I'm fine with immigration reform, but he hasn't put forward any ideas that are going to pass the Republican-controlled congress. Again, he's got a one-sentence agenda, so it can sound like a nice, clean reform, but it's not. Immigrants are more successful when they have family members to help them. Highly-skilled immigrants often have to be re-certified here and are difficult to employ. One of the reasons that so many other countries seem to have more job-based immigration is because they have way more temporary workers, which is not a system to be emulated.
We have border security, and Trump's multi-billion dollar wall is just a campaign promise he made to people like my aunt, who hates Mexicans even though she's probably never seen one. Hire more border guards, if that makes people feel better, but the wall will be a boondoggle, an eyesore, an eminent domain issue, and a monument to racism.
Obama didn't want the individual mandate, initially. In fact, he argued over this in the primary with Hillary. He became convinced of its necessity. He, unfortunately, backed away from the single-payer system because he still thought he could make a bi-partisan deal. That's why the insurance companies are still involved. But he got us closer to universal health care than ever before. Now we know that we can still get healthcare with pre-existing conditions, that we shouldn't have caps on our insurance, and that we can have all this without turning Communist overnight.
Opening up health insurance across state lines is a recipe for disaster. It lets insurance companies based in states with the loosest regulations cheat people across the entire nation, driving responsible companies out of business. Health savings accounts are nice when people can save.
But neither of those are reform - those are bandaids. Reform is building on Obamacare so that healthcare is truly universal. So that people aren't routinely bankrupted by illness. So that we don't have to bear the burden of so many uninsured emergency room visits. Ideally, we would even get rid of the idea of employer-funded healthcare.
The tax policy is not at all fair. I agree that it encourages business, and an adjustment to the corporate rate was overdue, but people and businesses need to contribute to this country or they will ruin themselves. The reason we can amass wealth and not have it stolen from us is because we have decent infrastructure, education, and police. We believe that we can get a job and do okay. But that's fading away as the wealth gap widens. People will start leaving the US, not when the taxes are too high, but when we stop having skilled workers, free trade with other nations, and the ability to send our products everywhere. Most importantly, companies need Americans with enough wealth to buy their products.
Our company is in phenomenal shape right now. It's on the same trajectory is has been for many years. We have yet to see the impact of the tax plan. Frankly, I am surprised we haven't taken a nosedive yet. Maybe the tariffs will do that.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:58:37 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
but he hasn't put forward any ideas that are going to pass the Republican-controlled congress.
Yes he absolutely has. The Raise ACT would pass. sorry if you think he meant ending all chain migration. That is not the case. Immediate family members would still have that opportunity. Just not distant relatives like cousins or aunts and uncles.
We have border security, and Trump's multi-billion dollar wall is just a campaign promise he made to people like my aunt, who hates Mexicans even though she's probably never seen one. Hire more border guards, if that makes people feel better, but the wall will be a boondoggle, an eyesore, an eminent domain issue, and a monument to racism.
Literally 100% of border security agents say that a wall in certain areas on the border is essential to securing the border. The wall is justa tiny part of the rest of the security measures that will go into it. There is nothing racist about it.
Did you know that 80% of women who cross the border are sexually assaulted and Obama declared the southern border a humanitarian crisis? If border security says we need to build a wall on certain portions of the border to end this crisis, then I tend to agree with the,
Anecdotally, I have a dozen illegal immigrant friends who have crossed the border multiple times in their lives. They have told me how dangerous it is. Most recently my one friend crossed the border and was kidnapped and blackmailed in when he got to Arizona. I do not condone that kind of behavior.
Obama didn't want the individual mandate, initially. In fact, he argued over this in the primary with Hillary. He became convinced of its necessity. He, unfortunately, backed away from the single-payer system because he still thought he could make a bi-partisan deal. That's why the insurance companies are still involved. But he got us closer to universal health care than ever before. Now we know that we can still get healthcare with pre-existing conditions, that we shouldn't have caps on our insurance, and that we can have all this without turning Communist overnight.
Funny you call it bipartisan when not one single republican voted for it.
Opening up health insurance across state lines is a recipe for disaster. It lets insurance companies based in states with the loosest regulations cheat people across the entire nation, driving responsible companies out of business.
It is also a horrible idea to have two monopolies in each state that can gouge their customers whatever they want and allowing zero alternatives.
But neither of those are reform - those are bandaids. Reform is building on Obamacare so that healthcare is truly universal. So that people aren't routinely bankrupted by illness. So that we don't have to bear the burden of so many uninsured emergency room visits. Ideally, we would even get rid of the idea of employer-funded healthcare.
And yet even under our system the US healthcare system is the best in the world. Doctors make the money they make because of insurance. If the government was paying the doctors salary, there would be much less incentive to pursue that career.
and the ability to send our products everywhere.
What do you think this whole trade war is about. WE CANNOT our products everywhere due to unfair trade deals.
people and businesses need to contribute to this country or they will ruin themselves.
We are contributing the same amount because although the tax rate is lower, we are making more money.
Maybe the tariffs will do that.
The tariffs will literally equal the playing field and make it easier for small companies to sell products to the global market. At the moment, we have ZERO access.
I don't think so, because it is harmful to businesses, so a lot of Republicans won't vote for it. It is a stupid bill. I can't see any benefit to it, unless you just don't like immigrants.
Immediate family members would still have that opportunity. Just not distant relatives like cousins or aunts and uncles.
Then I don't see how it differs, practically, from the current system. Full citizens can currently sponsor their brothers and sisters - is that the huge difference you're talking about?
80% of women who cross the border are sexually assaulted and Obama declared the southern border a humanitarian crisis?
That was when we had a huge influx of refugees traveling all the way from Central America, through Mexico, and into the US. That was an relatively brief and unusual circumstance. But I don't see how building a wall and limiting immigration would help those women, who would not be able to get into the US after fleeing their homes and being assaulted en route.
Funny you call it bipartisan
I didn't. I said he thought a bipartisan deal was possible, but he couldn't get a single Republican to vote for it even though it was based on Republican ideas. He should have gone for a single-payer system, in hindsight.
It is also a horrible idea to have two monopolies in each state that can gouge their customers whatever they want and allowing zero alternatives.
At least they'll be regulated. Better to get rid of the insurance companies altogether, I think.
US healthcare system is the best in the world
Yet US citizens get some of the worst care in the first world. And it bankrupts us.
We are contributing the same amount because although the tax rate is lower, we are making more money.
That's the theory. I'll believe it when I see it. What I heard from the CBO and others is that the predicted growth rates are entirely unreasonable. And I have yet to see any explanation for the repeal of the estate tax.
The tariffs will literally equal the playing field and make it easier for small companies to sell products to the global market. At the moment, we have ZERO access.
I don't understand this, and I admit I may be ignorant about some aspects of global trade, but the US sells tons of goods to the countries we are currently threatening with tariffs. What does it mean to have zero access? We are allowed to sell there, and the governments typically do not impose substantial tariffs. That will change if there is a trade war.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:27:28 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I do not have time to got through all this with you right now but I appreciate the thoughtful responses.
I will address the last point about trade though. I own an ecommerce business and we will ship worldwide. However, it is next to impossible for us to ship to other countries because most countries have import tariffs and VATs on imports. This limits my customer base to the US. Meanwhile those very same countries can send us anything that they want without having to worry about those import tariffs. It is uneven.
Not sure where you're getting the idea that this is happening.
Anecdotal, but I switched from left-leaning to right-leaning (in the sense that previously liberal values like freedom of speech and meritocracy have been somehow contorted into right wing values) for the very reason stated above. The left has gone fucking bat-shit and I can't consider myself a liberal and still support them. So, I turned to Trump as a way of drawing a line in the sand. Enough I say. I will not support your behaviour any longer. I will support the enemy, because at least they call you out for what you really are.
The left stole the label of liberal from me, and I resent them for it. Enough to support the 'other side' until such a time that they aren't fucking asshole anymore.
The left in America is slowly moving away from liberalism and towards 'progressivism' which is somewhat startlingly more authoritarian. A disgust of free speech and dislike of due process is startling. These are hallmark of western liberal traditions that have been seemingly sacrificed by the left.
Curious to know how limiting immigration based on country of origin rather than skills supports this. Or hiring your family and loyal friends.
freedom of speech
I like a free marketplace of ideas, but everyone has the right to shun people for speech that they find objectionable.
I don't see how anyone who professes to be liberal, in the true sense of the word, can support someone who does everything he can to threaten and weaken independent press, and who continually praises authoritarian regimes.
Enough to support the 'other side' until such a time that they aren't fucking asshole anymore
You are "supporting the enemy" because you don't like a minority contingent of the left wing. Those people have always been there. They didn't steal "liberal" from you. The consistent barrage of conservative negativity around the word and it's associations ("card-carrying member of the ACLU") has done that.
Curious to know how limiting immigration based on country of origin rather than skills supports this. Or hiring your family and loyal friends.
I'm not referring to specific pieces of legislation, I'm referring to the espousing of identity politics by the far left. They're degrading politics into group identities instead of the individual, which is something I think is wrong. Period. It is a fundamental belief of mine that people should be judged by their merit and character as an individual, not based on which group they belong to.
but everyone has the right to shun people for speech that they find objectionable.
I don't disagree with this. It's when people try to shut down civil discussions and suppress others' speech because they find what's being said objectionable. That's wrong. It's what I see people on the left doing more and more.
Those people have always been there.
They most certainly have fucking not thank you very much. It has been getting worse with time. The polarization is worse than it used to be, and I hold far left people accountable to a significant portion of it. A liberal used to mean the things I've already explained, and I am proud to call my self a liberal if that's what the word means. Everybody sees liberals as the far left wing ideologues now, though. This has become the case, it was not always the case. So yeah, yeah they did steal it.
Just because the left has gone against the freedom of speech doesn't mean it's a right wing value now. Go burn a flag and see what they think still. It just means we have no major party that support that and many other values now.
Your concept of a republican is far-right. Freedom of speech is now right. It's because the discourse of the left has stretched so far into insanity that the whole Overton window has shifted along with it.
I'm not talking about republican vs. democrat, I'm talking about fundamental differences in political ideology. It's not just America, I'm Canadian for fuck's sake.
And the downvote doesn't change that.
I never upvote or downvote anything, and I certainly didn't do it to yours.
Sorry for assuming American. I did so because of the liberal label being stolen comment not thinking that would apply in Canada also. I'm sick of these labels being twisted for political agendas.
I never upvote or downvote anything, and I certainly didn't do it to yours.
Sorry again, but when I go back and see if I really botched a comment pretty soon after I post and when it's 0 before I even look, it's more often than not the person that got the inbox reply.
It's because the discourse of the left has stretched so far into insanity that the whole Overton window has shifted along with it.
Funny that you mention the Overton window. The irony is that in the US (I know that you aren't American but this post is still talking about US politics) the Overton window is heavily slanted towards the right, especially when it comes to the economy. So, pretty much the opposite of what you're describing is happening.
I was talking about economics and it's pretty clear what right-wing economics are. Unfettered capitalism, trickle down economics, no worker rights, tax cuts for the rich and so on. The US have always been an extremely right-wing country when it comes to economics and the situation is only getting worse for your working class.
We aren't discussing economic policy, we're discussing the Overton window which is the range of ideology which is considered acceptable to discuss.
As far as I can tell, it is indeed shifted to the left because socialism and communism aren't considered 'bad' or unacceptable to discuss (see the public perception of Bernie Sanders in the media in the primaries).
Conversely the right-wing equivalents of right-wing socialism (read: crony capitalism, or what you're describing) and fascism are considered 'bad' and unacceptable to discuss (see the public perception of Trump/right-wingers in the media).
The US have always been extremely right-wing country when it comes to economics
Simply untrue. The capitalism in the U.S. prior to it becoming an oligarchy was awesome and a true implementation of centrist economic theory. It wasn't until the 80's that it started shifting towards right-wing territory, and even so it's still derided in the public discourse as being bad.
The fact that communism and socialism are considered acceptable to discuss while crony-capitalism and fascism are considered unacceptable to discuss makes it pretty clear where the Overton windows lies.
We aren't discussing economic policy, we're discussing the Overton window which is the range of ideology which is considered acceptable to discuss.
Yes and that includes economic policy.
As far as I can tell, it is indeed shifted to the left because socialism and communism aren't considered 'bad' or unacceptable to discuss (see the public perception of Bernie Sanders in the media in the primaries).
Bernie Sanders was demonized as a dangerous communist by a large part of the US media despite the fact that he's nowhere close to that. Sanders would be viewed as a very mainstream social democrat in most European countries and yet the US media considered him a radical. That's how far to the right the Overton window is over there.
Conversely the right-wing equivalents of right-wing socialism (read: crony capitalism, or what you're describing) and fascism are considered 'bad' and unacceptable to discuss (see the public perception of Trump/right-wingers in the media).
1) "Right-wing socialism" is not a thing.
2) Yes, Trump was so considered so "bad" and "unacceptable" to discuss that the media talked about him 24/7 before the election. He was so considered so "bad" that he ended up being the President.
Simply untrue. The capitalism in the U.S. prior to it becoming an oligarchy was awesome and a true implementation of centrist economic theory. It wasn't until the 80's that it started shifting towards right-wing territory, and even so it's still derided in the public discourse as being bad.
Capitalism was, is and will always be a right-wing ideology. It is deeply hierarchical and anti-egalitarian so it can never be anything but right-wing.
The fact that communism and socialism are considered acceptable to discuss while crony-capitalism and fascism are considered unacceptable to discuss makes it pretty clear where the Overton windows lies.
Again, communism and socialism are not considered acceptable topics of discussion in US media. If they did then Bernie Sanders wouldn't be demonized for the same kind of political beliefs that would be considered mainstream in most European countries.
Perception of discussion and economic policy, not economic policy itself. I made that pretty clear.
Bernie Sanders was demonized as a dangerous communist by a large part of the US media despite the fact that he's nowhere close to that. Sanders would be viewed as a very mainstream social democrat in most European countries and yet the US media considered him a radical. That's how far to the right the Overton window is over there.
We've reached the point of trying to argue subjective perception, which means this discussion has run it's course.
1) "Right-wing socialism" is not a thing.
I already explained that this is another word for crony capitalism.
2) Yes, Trump was so considered so "bad" and "unacceptable" to discuss that the media talked about him 24/7 before the election. He was so considered so "bad" that he ended up being the President.
You mean the media that talked 24/7 about how bad and unacceptable he was, and continues to do so now? Further, he won in spit of being considered bad by the majority of people due to not winning the popular vote.
Capitalism was, is and will always be a right-wing ideology. It is deeply hierarchical and anti-egalitarian so it can never be anything but right-wing.
Capitalism (not your weird brand of pseudo-capitalism you keep trying to pass off as the real thing) is egalitarian by definition. People are judged by merit in capitalistic theory, nothing more. I'm not even going to address the hierarchical aspect because all social species on earth are inherently hierarchical. You can not escape hierarchy because doing so results in tyranny. People will always rank others. Hierarchy has been present in every iteration of governance that has ever been tried. Even socialism and communism.
Further, individual freedom is the cornerstone of capitalism which is actually a centrist-left ideal. I'll give you the point that capitalism impedes equality of opportunity, but the U.S. government tried pretty hard to mitigate this in spite of their crony-capitalism.
Again, communism and socialism are not considered acceptable topics of discussion in US media. If they did then Bernie Sanders wouldn't be demonized for the same kind of political beliefs that would be considered mainstream in most European countries.
We've reached the point of trying to argue subjective perception, which means this discussion has run it's course.
Perception of discussion and economic policy, not economic policy itself. I made that pretty clear.
Sure. It still doesn't change the fact that economic policy is part of what's talked about.
We've reached the point of trying to argue subjective perception, which means this discussion has run it's course.
Nope. His policies (just like any other politician's policies) can be categorized objectively. His program was similar with a lot of social democrats here in Europe.
I already explained that this is another word for crony capitalism.
Which is not a thing either. This is simply capitalism in his real-world form.
You mean the media that talked 24/7 about how bad and unacceptable he was, and continues to do so now? Further, he won in spit of being considered bad by the majority of people due to not winning the popular vote.
Yes. They still gave him a crapton of publicity and they're liable for his election.
Capitalism (not your weird brand of pseudo-capitalism you keep trying to pass off as the real thing) is egalitarian by definition. People are judged by merit in capitalistic theory, nothing more.
1) People are NOT judged by merit in capitalistic theory. Capitalism isn't meritocratic.
2) Capitalism is not egalitarian. It couldn't be egalitarian because it forces a divide between the people who own the means of production and those who don't. There is nothing egalitarian about that.
I'm not even going to address the hierarchical aspect because all social species on earth are inherently hierarchical.
I'm not well-versed in biology so I cannot comment on the social structures of other animal species. What I can comment on is that humans have an ability that most other animal species don't. We have the ability to think critically. Therefore, there is no reason to limit ourselves to the same social structures that the rest of the animal kingdom uses.
You can not escape hierarchy because doing so results in tyranny. People will always rank others.
That's just your opinion. There is no proof of that, empirical or otherwise.
Hierarchy has been present in every iteration of governance that has ever been tried. Even socialism and communism.
Nope. The few times that socialism was actually practiced (we never got to communism) hierarchy was non-existent. I'm talking about Revolutionary Catalonia during the Spanish Civil War and the Free Territory during the Ukrainian Revolution. The Soviet Union and the states that they backed never got to practice socialism or communism. They remained in the state capitalism stage.
Further, individual freedom is the cornerstone of capitalism which is actually a centrist-left ideal.
Individual freedom is not a cornerstone of capitalism. Capitalism is, first and foremost, about economics. It doesn't place a heavy emphasis on social issues which is why you can have capitalists with a very conservative attitude on social issues and capitalists with a very progressive attitude on social issues.
We've reached the point of trying to argue subjective perception, which means this discussion has run it's course.
Sure. It still doesn't change the fact that economic policy is part of what's talked about.
I never claimed otherwise, but ok. It's a debate of public perception and tolerance of ideas, not objective reality.
Nope. His policies (just like any other politician's policies) can be categorized objectively. His program was similar with a lot of social democrats here in Europe.
Public ๐๐ฟ perception ๐๐ฟ and ๐๐ฟ tolerance ๐๐ฟ of ๐๐ฟ ideas ๐๐ฟ not ๐๐ฟ objective ๐๐ฟreality.
Which is not a thing either. This is simply capitalism in his real-world form.
Patently false, and the fields of political science and economics would like to have a stern word with you.
Yes. They still gave him a crapton of publicity and they're liable for his election.
Negative publicity. Negative public perception. Discussion surrounding his policies were cast in a negative light by most people in the public discourse. This is a very important detail, which you have conveniently failed to acknowledge.
1) People are NOT judged by merit in capitalistic theory. Capitalism isn't meritocratic.
They are by definition. The best firm get's the most consumers. The worst firm goes out of business. The most valued labour get's the highest wage. People who provide no value get no wage. Really simple stuff.
2) Capitalism is not egalitarian. It couldn't be egalitarian because it forces a divide between the people who own the means of production and those who don't. There is nothing egalitarian about that.
Fair point, on second consideration I do disagree with egalitarianism being a component of capitalism. However I also think egalitarianism has no place in any economic theory whatsoever, because people are not the same. They don't provide the same value to society. By law however the U.S. IS egalitarian so this is kind of a moot point in hindsight. You can argue if the law represent reality all you want though, I guess. Go nuts.
I'm not well-versed in biology so I cannot comment on the social structures of other animal species. What I can comment on is that humans have an ability that most other animal species don't. We have the ability to think critically. Therefore, there is no reason to limit ourselves to the same social structures that the rest of the animal kingdom uses.
You're missing the point. Hierarchical social and value structures are so deeply embedded in the biology of social animals (humans included) that no society on earth has ever existed that didn't have one. By your own logic, you don't have any friends, because everyone is your friend right? No need to place a higher social value on anyone in particular, right? They all provide the same value to your life. To have society, you need social hierarchy. The alternative is anarchy. Humans have it, chimpanzees have it, horses have it, fucking lobsters have it. It's a requirement for being a social creature that lives in a community, not a function of it. Yes humans have the capacity for rational thought, but we're still very much subject to the whims of our biological instincts.
That's just your opinion. There is no proof of that, empirical or otherwise.
Once again, do you have friends? Do you have people who's company you value more than others? Did your parents have an equal level of authority over you as that couple down the road? To eliminate hierarchy, you would have to treat every single person on earth the same. You will never do that, nobody else will, and the only way to make it happen is to force everyone to do it under threat of violence. Do you really think the enforcer is on the same level as everyone else?
Nope. The few times that socialism was actually practiced (we never got to communism) hierarchy was non-existent. I'm talking about Revolutionary Catalonia during the Spanish Civil War and the Free Territory during the Ukrainian Revolution. The Soviet Union and the states that they backed never got to practice socialism or communism. They remained in the state capitalism stage.
Ah yes, total anarchy. Great system. On paper there was no hierarchy, maybe. People still answered to others though. Murder and theft still lowered your social hierarchy rank. People still favoured the company of some people more than others, and that fucking weird kid in the back of the class was still a social outcast. You can't escape hierarchy unless you entirely disengage from society. See point #7.
Individual freedom is not a cornerstone of capitalism. Capitalism is, first and foremost, about economics. It doesn't place a heavy emphasis on social issues which is why you can have capitalists with a very conservative attitude on social issues and capitalists with a very progressive attitude on social issues.
You're claiming voluntary exchange of property (i.e. individual freedom of choice) isn't a cornerstone of capitalism? Perhaps I should have been more clear. You can't buy what you want in a socialist society. You buy what the government says is okay to buy.
I never claimed otherwise, but ok. It's a debate of public perception and tolerance of ideas, not objective reality.
So, what matters is how your detractors call your policies and not what your policies actually are?
Patently false, and the fields of political science and economics would like to have a stern word with you.
Give me one example of real life capitalism that is egalitarian.
Negative publicity. Negative public perception. Discussion surrounding his policies were cast in a negative light by most people in the public discourse. This is a very important detail, which you have conveniently failed to acknowledge.
I'm not acknowledging it for two reasons:
1) What counts as negative publicity for the supporters of one party, counts as positive publicity for the supporters of the other party.
2) Negative publicity is still publicity.
They are by definition. The best firm get's the most consumers. The worst firm goes out of business. The most valued labour get's the highest wage. People who provide no value get no wage. Really simple stuff.
That's not how it works in real life. Capitalism is rife with corruption in real life.
However I also think egalitarianism has no place in any economic theory whatsoever, because people are not the same. They don't provide the same value to society.
And here's where we fundamentally disagree. It's nice to see that you have eschewed the veil of egalitarianism, though. Not everyone has the guts to admit that.
By law however the U.S. IS egalitarian so this is kind of a moot point in hindsight. You can argue if the law represent reality all you want though, I guess. Go nuts.
Is it? Go tell this to the communities that lose members to unjustified police shootings every now and then and see what they'll reply.
You're missing the point. Hierarchical social and value structures are so deeply embedded in the biology of social animals (humans included) that no society on earth has ever existed that didn't have one. By your own logic, you don't have any friends, because everyone is your friend right? No need to place a higher social value on anyone in particular, right? They all provide the same value to your life. To have society, you need social hierarchy. The alternative is anarchy. Humans have it, chimpanzees have it, horses have it, fucking lobsters have it. It's a requirement for being a social creature that lives in a community, not a function of it. Yes humans have the capacity for rational thought, but we're still very much subject to the whims of our biological instincts.
You're the one that's missing the point. Social organization doesn't have to be hierarchical. Horizontal social organization exists and has been proven to be very successful.
Once again, do you have friends? Do you have people who's company you value more than others? Did your parents have an equal level of authority over you as that couple down the road? To eliminate hierarchy, you would have to treat every single person on earth the same. You will never do that, nobody else will, and the only way to make it happen is to force everyone to do it under threat of violence. Do you really think the enforcer is on the same level as everyone else?
Again, that's not how it works. You're misunderstanding my position on fundamental levels.
Ah yes, total anarchy. Great system. On paper there was no hierarchy, maybe.
Anarchism, not anarchy. There is a huge difference between the two.
People still answered to others though. Murder and theft still lowered your social hierarchy rank. People still favoured the company of some people more than others, and that fucking weird kid in the back of the class was still a social outcast. You can't escape hierarchy unless you entirely disengage from society. See point #7.
You're claiming voluntary exchange of property (i.e. individual freedom of choice) isn't a cornerstone of capitalism? Perhaps I should have been more clear.
No. I'm claiming that private property isn't freedom. It's pretty much the opposite of freedom.
You can't buy what you want in a socialist society. You buy what the government says is okay to buy.
You'll notice something in those socialist societies I mentioned above. They didn't really have what you'd call a government. You see, the final stage of socialism (and that final stage is also known as communism) is a stateless, moneyless and classless society. So, no the "government" isn't going to tell you what is okay to buy. The government will quite simply not exist.
So, what matters is how your detractors call your policies and not what your policies actually are?
In terms of the Overton window, yes. Thank you. That's what I've been trying to explain to you this entire time. Glad you've finally got it.
Give me one example of real life capitalism that is egalitarian.
Norway. (They are not socialist. They are a capitalist welfare-state, just like the U.S. and Canada. They simply have a more effective implementation.)
That's not how it works in real life. Capitalism is rife with corruption in real life.
Coincidentally, so is socialism and communism. 'Muh not real communism', etc. As humans we strive to apply the best theoretical frameworks to our day-to-day lives, and capitalism wins out across the board in this regard. Look at Norway, Sweden, or pre-80's U.S. for some examples.
I'm not acknowledging it for two reasons:
1) What counts as negative publicity for the supporters of one party, counts as positive publicity for the supporters of the other party.
2) Negative publicity is still publicity.
Again, Overton window. You seem to have careened into an entirely separate discussion, god only knows why.
And here's where we fundamentally disagree. It's nice to see that you have eschewed the veil of egalitarianism, though. Not everyone has the guts to admit that.
I am egalitarian to a fault. It just has no place in economics. Maybe in a fantasy-land without scarcity, but that doesn't exist yet. 'Guts' lmao, it takes guts to say that an economy shouldn't be based around merit. That's insane.
Is it? Go tell this to the communities that lose members to unjustified police shootings every now and then and see what they'll reply.
Moot point. It is, by law. Objective fact. You can argue the effectiveness of this as much as you can argue the effectiveness of 'muh real socialism'.
You're the one that's missing the point. Social organization doesn't have to be hierarchical. Horizontal social organization exists and has been proven to be very successful.
Yes, by definition it does. Much like the U.S. being egalitarian, what's horizontal 'on paper' and what actually happens are two different things. Much like actual socialism and 'muh real socialism' ;).
Again, that's not how it works. You're misunderstanding my position on fundamental levels
I assure you I'm not. You're just too dense to understand what I'm saying, or too much of an ideologue to care.
Anarchism, not anarchy. There is a huge difference between the two.
*Ah yes, anarchism. Great system. On paper there was no hierarchy, maybe.
Anarchism lends itself to anarchy. Look at chimpanzee tribes for an example of anarchist societies. (Spoiler, the dominant chimpanzee uses violence to establish a rudimentary social hierarchy).
You can read George Orwell's Homage To Catalonia if you want a first-hand impression of how Revolutionary Catalonia worked. I'll link you to a thread that has a bunch of quotes from that book ->
Read it, would rather live in the forest than that shit-hole. And they still had social hierarchy. They still had laws.
'Along with the collectivization of industry and transport there was an attempt to set up the rough beginnings of a workers' government by means of local committees, workers' patrols to replace the old pro-capitalist police forces, workers' militias based on the trade-unions, and so forth."
No. I'm claiming that private property isn't freedom. It's pretty much the opposite of freedom.
Freedom is being able to act without undue or unjust constraints. I consider it unjust to not be allowed to own things. If you disagree feel free to burn down your house an move to a commune. You can already live in the kind of society you espouse as superior. Ironically enough you're only free to do so because of capitalism.
You'll notice something in those socialist societies I mentioned above. They didn't really have what you'd call a government. You see, the final stage of socialism (and that final stage is also known as communism) is a stateless, moneyless and classless society. So, no the "government" isn't going to tell you what is okay to buy. The government will quite simply not exist.
For the same reason the alpha chimpanzee established a social hierarchy with violence, this is never an attainable state. Once again, if you think it's so great move to a commune.
In terms of the Overton window, yes. Thank you. That's what I've been trying to explain to you this entire time. Glad you've finally got it.
But doesn't that also mean that since Trump was categorized as a far-right white supremacist by his detractors and he got elected then his views are considered acceptable and thus fall within the Overton window?
Norway. (They are not socialist. They are a capitalist welfare-state, just like the U.S. and Canada. They simply have a more effective implementation.)
We definitely agree that Norway is not socialist. I don't think that they can be considered egalitarian but they're definitely closer to it than the US.
Coincidentally, so is socialism and communism. 'Muh not real communism', etc. As humans we strive to apply the best theoretical frameworks to our day-to-day lives, and capitalism wins out across the board in this regard. Look at Norway, Sweden, or pre-80's U.S. for some examples.
I mean, Orwell lived it and he didn't see any corruption in Revolutionary Catalonia. And keep in mind that Orwell wasn't even an anarchist. He was a democratic socialist that just saw how the anarcho-syndicalist implementation worked over there and came to admire it.
Again, Overton window. You seem to have careened into an entirely separate discussion, god only knows why.
Isn't the fact that he was elected President proof that he was within the Overton window?
I am egalitarian to a fault. It just has no place in economics. Maybe in a fantasy-land without scarcity, but that doesn't exist yet. 'Guts' lmao, it takes guts to say that an economy shouldn't be based around merit. That's insane.
And as I said, this is where we disagree.
Moot point. It is, by law. Objective fact. You can argue the effectiveness of this as much as you can argue the effectiveness of 'muh real socialism'.
I don't know enough about the specifics of the US legal system to comment on whether it's egalitarian by law or not. All I know is that according to everything I read/hear about it, that's certainly not how it is implemented.
Yes, by definition it does. Much like the U.S. being egalitarian, what's horizontal 'on paper' and what actually happens are two different things. Much like actual socialism and 'muh real socialism' ;).
As someone who has personal experience with horizontal organization I can assure you that you're wrong.
Ah yes, anarchism. Great system. On paper there was no hierarchy, maybe.
Anarchism lends itself to anarchy. Look at chimpanzee tribes for an example of anarchist societies. (Spoiler, the dominant chimpanzee uses violence to establish a rudimentary social hierarchy).
Are you seriously comparing a political ideology with chimpanzee tribes?
Read it, would rather live in the forest than that shit-hole. And they still had social hierarchy. They still had laws.
1) Horizontal social organization.
2) The existence of laws doesn't go against anarchism. Anarchism is by definition stateless, classless and in most of its branches moneyless but it isn't necessarily lawless.
Freedom is being able to act without undue or unjust constraints. I consider it unjust to not be allowed to own things. If you disagree feel free to burn down your house an move to a commune. You can already live in the kind of society you espouse as superior. Ironically enough you're only free to do so because of capitalism.
Did I talk about owning things? No, I didn't. I talked about private property. You're talking about personal property. There is a distinction between the two.
But doesn't that also mean that since Trump was categorized as a far-right white supremacist by his detractors and he got elected then his views are considered acceptable and thus fall within the Overton window?
No, because as I said earlier he lost the popular vote by a considerable margin. This indicates the general sentiment amoung the population is that of disagreement. That, coupled with the overwhelming negative publicity throughout his campaign and even now surely highlights how silly this supposition is.
We definitely agree that Norway is not socialist. I don't think that they can be considered egalitarian but they're definitely closer to it than the US.
Norway (but more generally Scandinavia) is one of the most egalitarian societies in the world. If they're not considered egalitarian then one wonders if such a thing is a realistic goal to strive for.
I mean, Orwell lived it and he didn't see any corruption in Revolutionary Catalonia. And keep in mind that Orwell wasn't even an anarchist. He was a democratic socialist that just saw how the anarcho-syndicalist implementation worked over there and came to admire it.
I think it's disingenuous to argue for the benefits of socialism as an alternative to capitalism by using anecdotal accounts of one man's time in a small region of peasants to justify it's implementation on a national or global scale. The only examples of socialism/communism implementations at scales this large are ones which ended in catastrophe and millions of deaths. It's like how direct democracy sounds much better than representational, but ceases the be an effective system outside of small communities.
Isn't the fact that he was elected President proof that he was within the Overton window?
See point 1, also see his approval ratings.
And as I said, this is where we disagree.
Ok.
I don't know enough about the specifics of the US legal system to comment on whether it's egalitarian by law or not. All I know is that according to everything I read/hear about it, that's certainly not how it is implemented.
Nobody can be discriminated against for any reason outside of their control, or for their religion or political beliefs. Once again, implementation and theory are two very different things, but it's the theory that dictates the window of what's considered acceptable to talk about or propose legislation for.
As someone who has personal experience with horizontal organization I can assure you that you're wrong.
I'd like to see this organization where everyone works independently and without any oversight whatsoever. Once you're hired, you can't be fired. No sir. Further, hiring is done by either randomly selecting candidates or by a direct vote amoung all employees.
Are you seriously comparing a political ideology with chimpanzee tribes?
No, I'm seriously comparing the inherent social hierarchy found in humans to that found in chimpanzees, because the underlying biological phenomena is the same and is identifiable in every social animal on earth.
1) Horizontal social organization.
2) The existence of laws doesn't go against anarchism. Anarchism is by definition stateless, classless and in most of its branches moneyless but it isn't necessarily lawless.
Laws by their very nature create define the state. The only way to enforce laws is by a monopoly on violence, and that can never be achieved without a entity that enforces this violence, the state. Doesn't matter what form a society takes, if it has laws, it is a state.
Did I talk about owning things? No, I didn't. I talked about private property. You're talking about personal property. There is a distinction between the two.
This simply isn't true. It doesn't even make logical sense, when you think about it. If you have personal property, only you have control over it. It is by definition, private.
No, because as I said earlier he lost the popular vote by a considerable margin. This indicates the general sentiment amoung the population is that of disagreement. That, coupled with the overwhelming negative publicity throughout his campaign and even now surely highlights how silly this supposition is.
Yes but he won the Electoral College so he's president. And ever since he was elected his positions are becoming more and more accepted which is why there has been a rise in attacks from white supremacists.
Norway (but more generally Scandinavia) is one of the most egalitarian societies in the world. If they're not considered egalitarian then one wonders if such a thing is a realistic goal to strive for.
I agree that Scandinavian societies are among the most egalitarian in the world. That doesn't necessarily make them egalitarian, though. It just means that the rest of the world is so unequal that they almost seem egalitarian in comparison.
As for whether egalitarianism is a realistic or not, then it's quite simple for me. Egalitarianism is realistic but it depends on the economic model that the society is built upon. Egalitarianism cannot really exist under a capitalist economic model since capitalism is anti-egalitarian.
I think it's disingenuous to argue for the benefits of socialism as an alternative to capitalism by using anecdotal accounts of one man's time in a small region of peasants to justify it's implementation on a national or global scale. The only examples of socialism/communism implementations at scales this large are ones which ended in catastrophe and millions of deaths. It's like how direct democracy sounds much better than representational, but ceases the be an effective system outside of small communities.
Catalonia hasn't been a small region of peasants ever since the second half of the nineteenth century. Orwell spent most of his time in Barcelona and the Aragon front (his time in the Aragon front being spent in Alcubierre and Huesca). Alcubierre is indeed small and rural but Huesca and especially Barcelona do not fit that bill.
Nobody can be discriminated against for any reason outside of their control, or for their religion or political beliefs. Once again, implementation and theory are two very different things, but it's the theory that dictates the window of what's considered acceptable to talk about or propose legislation for.
We're arguing two different things. You're talking about the theory and I'm talking about the implementation.
I'd like to see this organization where everyone works independently and without any oversight whatsoever. Once you're hired, you can't be fired. No sir. Further, hiring is done by either randomly selecting candidates or by a direct vote amoung all employees.
You're talking about hiring, firing and employees which quite simply do not exist as concepts in a stateless, moneyless and classless society.
No, I'm seriously comparing the inherent social hierarchy found in humans to that found in chimpanzees, because the underlying biological phenomena is the same and is identifiable in every social animal on earth.
The underlying biological phenomena may be the same but humans have capabilities that other social animals do not have. We have used those capabilities to create a civilization spanning the whole planet (and looking to expand in other planets too). We can continue using those capabilities to progress as a species and further differentiate ourselves from our primate relatives.
Laws by their very nature create define the state. The only way to enforce laws is by a monopoly on violence, and that can never be achieved without a entity that enforces this violence, the state. Doesn't matter what form a society takes, if it has laws, it is a state.
You didn't watch the video I posted, did you?
This simply isn't true. It doesn't even make logical sense, when you think about it. If you have personal property, only you have control over it. It is by definition, private.
Once again, private property and personal property are two different things.
Personal property includes "items intended for personal use"[3] (e.g., clothes, homes, and vehicles,[3] and sometimes money).[4] It must be gained in a socially fair manner, and the owner has a distributive right to exclude others.
Private property is a social relationship between the owner and persons deprived (not a relationship between person and thing), e.g., artifacts, factories, mines, dams, infrastructure, natural vegetation, mountains, deserts and seas. Marxism holds that a process of class conflict and revolutionary struggle could result in victory for the proletariat and the establishment of a communist society in which private property and ownership is abolished over time and the means of production and subsistence belong to the community. (Private property and ownership, in this context, means ownership of the means of production, not personal possessions).
Yes but he won the Electoral College so he's president. And ever since he was elected his positions are becoming more and more accepted which is why there has been a rise in attacks from white supremacists.
Negative trend of approval rating since the election has determined that this is a lie.
I agree that Scandinavian societies are among the most egalitarian in the world. That doesn't necessarily make them egalitarian, though. It just means that the rest of the world is so unequal that they almost seem egalitarian in comparison.
At this point you're cutting off your nose to spit your face.
.As for whether egalitarianism is a realistic or not, then it's quite simple for me. Egalitarianism is realistic but it depends on the economic model that the society is built upon. Egalitarianism cannot really exist under a capitalist economic model since capitalism is anti-egalitarian.
We've already established why this is incorrect, and why socialism/communism not only won't improve the situation, but will make it worse. I like running in circles though so please continue forever.
Catalonia hasn't been a small region of peasants ever since the second half of the nineteenth century. Orwell spent most of his time in Barcelona and the Aragon front (his time in the Aragon front being spent in Alcubierre and Huesca). Alcubierre is indeed small and rural but Huesca and especially Barcelona do not fit that bill.
I guess we have different definitions of small regions of peasants.
We're arguing two different things. You're talking about the theory and I'm talking about the implementation.
Exactly. You're cutting off your nose to spite your face.
You're talking about hiring, firing and employees which quite simply do not exist as concepts in a stateless, moneyless and classless society.
They do however exist in a horizontal organization, which is what I said. I didn't say the other thing.
The underlying biological phenomena may be the same but humans have capabilities that other social animals do not have. We have used those capabilities to create a civilization spanning the whole planet (and looking to expand in other planets too). We can continue using those capabilities to progress as a species and further differentiate ourselves from our primate relatives.
Once again, we've been over this and established why this simply isn't the case. Once again, feel free to continue because I enjoy talking in circles.
You didn't watch the video I posted, did you?
I did, you didn't address my point though.
Once again, private property and personal property are two different things.
This is a fundamental difference in ideology. What you've said are identical in my eyes, and in a capitalist systems. Socialists would have you believe otherwise, but this is a matter of belief, not objective fact. You conveniently left out
"notably socialist, Marxist, and most anarchist philosophies, the distinction between private and personal property is extremely important."
from your quotes.
Now, I implore you to continue to talk in circles.
Their attacks being on the rise either means that more people are joining their ranks (hence their ideology becoming more accepted by the public) or that they are emboldened exactly because their ideas are more accepted than they were used to.
We've already established why this is incorrect, and why socialism/communism not only won't improve the situation, but will make it worse. I like running in circles though so please continue forever.
We haven't established anything. You have just presented your opinion on it. You are free to have your own opinion but that doesn't make it a fact.
I guess we have different definitions of small regions of peasants.
If you consider Barcelona to be a small region of peasants then yes.
They do however exist in a horizontal organization, which is what I said.
Bosses and employees do not exist in a horizontal organization either. It's what makes the organization horizontal.
Once again, we've been over this and established why this simply isn't the case. Once again, feel free to continue because I enjoy talking in circles.
Once again, all you established was your opinion on it.
I did, you didn't address my point though.
Because your point was already addressed in the video that you clearly didn't watch.
This is a fundamental difference in ideology. What you've said are identical in my eyes, and in a capitalist systems. Socialists would have you believe otherwise, but this is a matter of belief, not objective fact. You conveniently left out
If I wanted to leave it out then I wouldn't provide a link in the first place.
And yes, it is a difference in ideology. I never said that it isn't.
You're mostly correct, there are plenty of instances of the right being hostile to speech and looking to suppress it as well. However, I'd still say they are more supportive of it than the left. One only has to look at colleges to see that. I believe many polls back this up as well. Although one does have to scoff at the right's reaction to some mediocre QB silently taking a knee during a football game.
[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 16:01:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
His approval rating is at 40% and Democrats are expected to take the house over in the midterms. What the fuck are you talking about 'gaining popularity'?
Anyone else find it ironic that their group uses this "target with a Nazi section" to congregate to try and shutdown the financial sources of the very place they congregate despite claiming they have major trouble buying from companies that advertise there?
taws34 ยท -16 points ยท Posted at 14:00:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit is, essentially, a public space. Similarly, so is a college campus.
A lot of people would take issue with a Nazi recruitment booth at a college.
Just because I go to the college doesn't mean I need to be OK with Nazi's recruiting people.
Would you actively tell donors to that school to not give money to the school and tell their sports teams advertisers you won't buy their products because the school hasn't removed the nazis all the while continuing to enroll at the school?
taws34 ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:55:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Help me enroll somewhere else.
What other news aggregate / community form websites are out there?
I mean there is Facebook but that is not really better.
The problem is that when you get such a large user base you are going to have many, many differing views and also gain many many trolls. There is really nothing that can be done about that.
Except that the T_D booth wouldnt be out in the open and you'd actually have to ask for it to see it.
taws34 ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 15:14:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
When T_D abused the algorithms to get posts to the top of r/all? When Reddit had to ultimately allow people to filter subreddits just to negate their continued algorithm abuse?
New users don't ask to see that stuff - they browse r/all, and get blasted with it as they walk to the student union building.
You want to browse r/all, don't expect everything to be nerfed, everything offends someone.
And new to Reddit? If you're new to Reddit in 2018, you've got so much meta inside joke bullshit to catch up on, you almost need T_D to make sense of the site as a whole.
I think every college campus has that religious nut job that tells women they are going to hell for being whores. It's called freedom of speech, even if you're an idiot.
taws34 ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:42:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
A lot of times those nutjobs are escorted from campus and given trespass orders.
Help me understand this. It seems to me that if it's a public space, it's still a space created by a private company. I think the difference is a public university likely couldn't prohibit the nazi recruitment booth, but reddit could close down the subreddit.
I agree with the original comment. To me, it seems that a reddit user in the analogy would be shopping at the target that has a nazi section
These are the same people who called Mitt Romney a sexist for his 'binders full of women' nonsense. Oh and degraded him for having the audacity to go against Obama's "Russian Reset" and say Russia is our greatest geopolitical threat. Right after Obama scuttled the olish Defense program and said got hot-micc'd saying he'd have more room to work after the election with the Russian President.
Show one example of this that got anywhere close to the front page. Go ahead.
It's amazing how many people claim these things without proof. I'm not white and I've found them far more accepting than the liberal parts of reddit.
umm, did you see all the shit TD posted from the Saturday protests. Gun nuts on TD talking about target practice, about what they would do to Emma Gonzelez ; etc etc
Where you on TD the weekend of Charlottesville where a Nazi killed an American citizen on US Soil?
Go ahead, find examples. Shouting "they're violent Nazis!" without proof means nothing. It's the go-to tactic of the Left. Just shout inanity and hope your opponent can't defend it.
Nazis didn't kill anyone. The guy who drove the car wasn't a Nazi. Nor was it a Nazi rally -- it was a rally that a handful of white nationalists were at.
But go on and call everything you don't like "nazi". People ignore you when you speak with that much ignorance.
[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 15:41:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Lmao "a rally a handful of white nationalist attended". You realize the white nationalists planned the rally right? But go on, dismiss real world evidence of TDs association with neo-nazis. People ignore you when you can't acknowledge the facts in front of your face. Enjoy as the democrats continue to crush republicans throughout the midterms.
There were around a hundred white nationalists at an event that had over a thousand. Yes, actual white supremacists were there. Not everyone there was one. Use that tiny brain of yours.
Edit- Here's an article confirming that the Charlottesville murderer was a trump supporter.
No one denied he was. Earlier he was called a Nazi. Again, use that tiny brain of yours to understand that there's a difference.
Enjoy as the democrats continue to crush republicans throughout the midterms.
LOL. I heard this just before the election too. There's going to be so much salt from your side in a few months.
There were around a hundred white nationalists at an event that had over a thousand. Yes, actual white supremacists were there. Not everyone there was one. Use that tiny brain of yours.
Was the rally organized by nazis? Did TD encourage their members to go to a nazi run rally? Then TD might be a little nazi. I know syllogistic thinking is probably far beyond your abilities, but give it a shot and try to work it through.
Funny because once T_D found out that it was a white nationalist rally meant in to duping Donald supporters to go, people were posting things encouraging people not to go. Sounds kind of the opposite of what youโre saying. Do you actually go on the sub? Or do you just listen to what some guy told you that also doesnโt go on the sub lol.
I want to be perfectly clear with you guys that many of the people who will be there are National Socialist and Ethnostate sort of groups. I donโt endorse them. In this case, the pursuit of preserving without shame white culture, our goals happen to align.
From the sticky. "We aren't Nazis, we just support and uphold the same ideas as nazis." Kindly gfys.
We aren't Nazis, we just support and uphold the same ideas as nazis.
So do you, for wanting to silence speech that you disagree with, for wanting to take away guns. If anything, almost everyone holds at least one idea that the Nazis had. That does not make them a Nazi.
So then it's a safe space? As in a space for which only certain ideas are allowed and not allowed to be criticized or disagreed by the community. You can't just change the definition of things when you don't want to fit it.
Not it's not because you can express disagreement on those subs. There's a difference between saying "Haha motorcycles suck you losers Haha" and "I don't particularly like motorcycles and I think they're unsafe because..." both would not be allowed on The_Donald. There is literally only one point of view allowed. Anything that even questions Trump or the general narrative of the sub is banned. That's a safe space. You can try to work around the definition all you want but The_Donald is indeed a safe space.
Did you even read my comment. It's not about telling them their niche is stupid any criticism of Trump at all is banned. You can go to those subreddits and disagree with the main topic. That's a safe space.
There's a difference between "this game sucks" and "I disagree this game is perfect, I have concern about X, personally I don't like it".
Saying that a photo isn't proof of a friendship, but if it is then do the photos of Trump with questionable people proves he friends with questionable people, is not "Trump sucks!!!!".
Anything that isn't pro Trump can get you banned, to the point where long time posters find themselves banned for something controversial despite being ardent supporters. A lot of people got nuked not too long ago when he said to scrap due process with guns for people of questionable mental health, and they disagreed with it.
I haven't been banned from /r/communism101 yet, but I did get banned from /r/BlueMidterm2018 for asking a basic question about DACA and why the Democrats dropped the issue.
edit: nevermind i'm banned
[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 15:59:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
What's wrong with promoting Britain First? If I'm not mistaken, they did the same for the Netherlands and France. Poland has been Poland first so they have just been supporting them.
[deleted] ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 16:11:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Remember when reddit supported free speech regardless of the content? T_D isn't nearly as bad as people on here say it is, but it will most likely go the way of gore on /r/WTF and that fat people bullying sub.
The people on /r/the_donald won't be changing their opinions just because you ban them. They will find a new place. Then reddit's transition into Tumblr lite will be complete.
I'm not a fan of T_D either, but I feel like this comparison is way off. Reddit is a site with content created entirely by users, hosted by Reddit. It's less like a Target with a Nazi section and more like a plaza with a farmer's market, and book club meeting, and also some KKK members hanging out on a bench.
And a bunch of people huddled around a flickering old monitor watching other people die.
And a political rally. And another political rally that's pretending to be a general discussion of politics.
And people sitting on a bench near the food trucks, mocking anyone overweight or "funny-looking."
There's another group sitting there glaring at all the men. Not too far from them is a group glaring at all the women. Some of them have red pills, I think. There's another group glaring at both the women AND the men, calling them "chads" and "Stacys" and blaming them for all their problems. There's another group, too, that likes to go to some terrible places and then talk about what they saw there.
Milling around from one table to another are a whole bunch of people. Some of them are racist and bigoted, and are really terrible people. Some of them are pretty awesome. A lot of the former tend to spend more time at certain tables, while a lot of the latter make the market a decent place to visit. They form their own tables, and share funny stories and cute items. Sometimes they show one another their naughty bits, which is nice. Sometimes they're wholesome and sometimes they fight.
It's a weird farmer's market, but I guess there's both good and bad people here.
edit: I almost forgot to make a point. You'll find something offensive in any user-curated space. Some people are offensive; some people get offended. I'm not saying that it's wrong to target things that are legitimately offended, but I'm saying that opening this door is going to trigger a war to target the advertisers for anything that one finds offensive. And you can find plenty of ammo in many, many subreddits. Reddit's already not profitable as it is; I just wonder if it'll keep going until the site burns to the ground? I also wonder if that's such a bad thing.
I feel like you've described all these small yet really loud groups huddled underneath a tree on the edge if the parking lot while everyone else is just buying fruits and vegetables.
No, actual conservatives can't stand Trump. It's people filled with hate who go there, and that's a good thing if that keeps them away from the rest of the internet.
[deleted] ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 15:23:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Russian bots are why TD is so prominent.
Tattered ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:50:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Let's assume that /r/The_Donald gets its prominence from Russian bots.
We know that the goal of the Russian botters was to further the divide in the United States political discourse. We know that they did this by promoting "strong" arguing points on both the Democratic side and the Republican side in order to sew discord and hyperpolarize the parties.
Now if /r/The_Donald gets its prominence from only bots should there not, therefore, be a democratic equivalent also promoted by bots? There isn't a democratic equivalent to /r/The_Donald. Therefore either the bots strongly influencing everyone equally (meaning that the Russian bots aren't why /r/The_Donald is so prominent) or they're not hitting as much as you think they are (meaning that the Russian bots aren't why /r/The_Donald is so prominent). Your argument is self-defeating.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 15:56:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
My argument is not self defeated by you listing dumb bullshit dude. Everyone already knows about all the fake news spread by Russian bots through TD. Or are you gonna pretend @TENGOP didn't exist?
Tattered ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:24:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
We know that the goal of the Russian botters was to further the divide in the United States political discourse. We know that they did this by promoting "strong" arguing points on both the Democratic side and the Republican side in order to sew discord and hyperpolarize the parties.
Either the bots strongly influencing everyone equally (meaning that the Russian bots aren't why /r/The_Donald is so prominent) or they're not hitting as much as you think they are (meaning that the Russian bots aren't why /r/The_Donald is so prominent).
Your statement doesn't refute any of my points. It is possible for Russian bots to have an effect on TD without them being the source of its prominence.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:30:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You argued the same old tired argument that "Trump supporters aren't racist, they just get called racist by leftists so much that they get pushed towards bastions of racism on the internet" which is complete fake news that you have no source for. It's a well verified fact that TD constantly pushes Russian bot sourced content.
Tattered ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:39:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
We know that the goal of the Russian botters was to further the divide in the United States political discourse. We know that they did this by promoting "strong" arguing points on both the Democratic side and the Republican side in order to sew discord and hyperpolarize the parties.
Either the bots strongly influencing everyone equally (meaning that the Russian bots aren't why /r/The_Donald is so prominent) or they're not hitting as much as you think they are (meaning that the Russian bots aren't why /r/The_Donald is so prominent).
It's a well verified fact that TD constantly pushes Russian bot sourced content.
Your statement doesn't refute any of my points. It is possible for Russian bots to have an effect on TD without them being the source of its prominence.
Please stay on topic. If you would like to debate another one of my comments about a separate topic please reply to that comment with your argument about that separate topic. Right now I believe we are debating your statement that "Russian bots are why TD is so prominent."
No, the "Unite the Right" march, that was specifically about uniting the far right with the more moderate right to show a united front. The one that T_D promoted, and specifically had disclaimers about how you would absolutely be marching alongside white supremacists, but why it was worthwhile to go anyway.
But you're moving the goalpost, you're saying shit like "if there even ARE Nazis out there anymore" when you can literally find videos from a couple of months ago of people marching under Swastikas and doing Nazi chants. At a march that T_D promoted. So aside from dedicated, willful ignorance, by what basis are you skeptical that Nazis exist?
I for one welcome ad hominem attacks on politicians rather than debating their ideas. It's definitely the right direction to take our society, and I wish it was more common.
Yeah, that's the problem. Most those things follows trends that changes slower than in one year, these trends often lags behind changes by multiple years. Especially markets like housing and employment.
Hiring spiked after the tax cuts. I can directly attribute my current job (I was previously unemployed) to those tax cuts. The company created an additional position at the beginning of January because they had the money to do so.
Source needed. Your personal experience isn't data. I also wonder how you know exactly how your hiring company came to the decision to make a new position.
I'm on mobile so I can't copy the pdf links for some reason. But google "the employment situation 2017" and 2018, and look at the civilian noninstitutional population employment numbers from the bureau of labor statistics.
Yeah the major unemployment is total nonfarm payroll numbers, neither of which even closely resemble what you're citing. 227k in Jan 2018, 200k in Jan 2018, so it actually FELL.
What the fuck are you on about? Your numbers are all over the place. Otherwise, you're saying that unemployment INCREASED this year. And guess what, hiring and unemployment can fall at the same time, if you can wrap your brain around that.
You know what? Never mind. No fucking idea why I'm trying to talk numbers with a Trumpist.
Coming from the guy talking about numbers "spiking" and completely failing to produce even the most routine evidence. I know, you're used to T_D where no one questions your narrative.
I urge you to go look at the numbers again. The total number of people employed rose significantly in both January and February of 2018. Compared to December of last year, before the tax cuts, there were 1.2 million more people employed in February. Those people were all hired. That's the largest increase in that 2 month span since 2012. If you don't call that a hiring spike I don't know what else you would possibly call it.
You also have to take into account the fact that the available labor pool was incredibly small because unemployment is at it's lowest rate since the year 2000. The last time that many people were hired over that span the unemployment rate was at 8.4%, over double what it was at the end of December 2017. It's way easier to hire when you're drawing from a larger pool.
Total nonfarm payrolls, the official number for new jobs created, which would be the logical correlation with "companies hiring because they have more money:"
Jan 2018: 200k
Feb 2018: 313k
Jan 2017: 227K
Feb 2017: 235K
The total amounts to a slight/moderate increase in 2018 over 2017, a continuation of an almost decade long trend of employment growth and easily attributable to economic expansion. You don't compare Dec 2017 to Jan 2018, because no one uses non seasonally adjusted numbers.
But honestly, that's hardly the point. I'm not really contending that the tax bill is bad for jobs. One could argue that stimulus when unemployment was already shrinking is going to spur inflation and overheat the economy, but that's awfully speculative. I only really took interest in this conversation because "look at the employment rate" is a stupid argument for hiring spiking when employment has been growing every month for years. It's mathematical nonsense, a current value isn't an argument for a delta value.
I was at work on my phone during my breaks so I didn't really have the time or the ability to dig into the unemployment numbers and write some long elaborate response. I was comparing the increases from Dec->Jan->Feb vs. the increases in previous years because of the seasonality factors.
You can't simply compare jobs created in January 2017 vs jobs created in 2018. You also have to look at the total number of people who are in the labor force, the labor force participation rate, the unemployment percentage and the employment percentage. Given two labor forces of the same size, the exact same increase in Employment-population rate is far more impressive at 4.1% unemployment (end of December 2018) than it is at 4.8% percent unemployment (end of December 2017). Same thing if you're looking at the number of new jobs created.
When you also consider the fact that there were more people hired during the first two months of 2018 than any Jan/Feb since 2012 when unemployment was at 8.4%... you might want to take a look at some of the external factors that might have had an impact on the labor market.
But at that point you're looking at a much more holistic analysis than either of us are doing. The increase over the prior year was meagre. And if you throw it to "well there are lots of external factors" then you're pretty much saying "we can't find an answer, but I'm just going to assume the one that fits my political narrative."
And if you throw it to "well there are lots of external factors"
The specific factor I was referring to was the tax cuts.
then you're pretty much saying "we can't find an answer, but I'm just going to assume the one that fits my political narrative."
There's no denying that there was an increase in hiring and an increase in overall employment compared to previous years... so aren't you doing exactly the same thing? Making assumptions about the cause of that increase? Neither of us can be 100% sure.
I love people throwing out GDP numbers for a quarter, as if that's a thing. GDP growth in 2017 was slower than 2015.
And, ya know, Trump made no substantial changes to our policy fighting ISIS. Please feel free to correct me. And unemployment was falling every quarter leading up to his presidency, it just kept on falling.
So much of this literally amounts to "a growing economy kept on growing, Trump's a GENIUS!"
You can give him the stock market because that's directly attributable to his tax cut, but since when is it the president's job to inflate the stock market?
Only one I can give you there that Trump caused was ISIS. Obamas micromanagement of the military made it ineffective. All others were definitely not effected by Trump, as they were easily projected to reach this point while Obama was in office
Tax Cuts : 87% of that Trillion Dollar Tax Cut went to the 0.1% and US Billion dollar businesses. You are aware, your tax cut is temporary, the big business tax cut is permanent. Also, the big business tax cut is going to be mostly spent on Stock BuyBacks. There is no Trickle down (see Reagan).
Trump for the first time in our nation pushed the Deficit over $20 Trillion.
Opioid fight - what? He talked about making Big Pharma cut their prices, Big Pharma met with him in the Oval in 2016, and drug prices has gone up, not down. Big Pharma is stronger than ever before. Has Trump gotten Sessions to back off from Pot? nope. Has Trump demanded a Federal bill to allow marijuana to be available, regulated, and taxed like Colorado? Nope. Has Trump ever spoken out about how thousands of doctors are paid by Big Pharma to push heroin ? nope
Stock Market all time high: yes, when a president who promised to fix the corruption does the exact opposite, that means the market will go up. Trillion Dollar Tax Cut to big business , removing sane regulations put into place after the 2008 Market Crash, removing regulatory regulations also put in place to protect the American consumer ............. yup all those things will indeed protect Big Business (and consumer losing) - so yes, you get a Stock Market going up.
Go look at a 10year Dow or SPX chart, tape has been going up since March 2009 during Obama's 8yr term.
Last Week, Trump made vast noise about "Trade War with China" can be won; and the Dow lost almost 2,000 points in 1-2 weeks.
Over the weekend, sane adults in the Federal Gov along with China came out saying they are trying to work together re Tariffs. That is why the Tape is up today, dispite Trump not because of him.
NK: umm, Trump just made NK's leader more important than he ever was by agreeing to meet with him before any concessions were put into place.
Deportations: umm, there's law on the books for decades fining big business for hiring illegals, however Trump's regs have reduced enforcement of business owners.
Trump's guys have fucked up National parks, our education system is being run by an Amway heiress whose brother runs Blackwater
Trump got rid of ISIS you say? really, so why are they all over the news in the European press (not the Fox TV you watch)
The rest of the First World is working on Solar and Wind energy, Trump has slashed research in those areas and is pushing Coal - fucking coal and more fracking
Racial tension in this country has not been this high since the 1960s; fueled by Trump and Fox TV.
Trump "There were some good Nazis there in Charlottesville"
1/4 of Trump's time has been on a damn golf course, 1/4 !
approx 30% of his days as POTUS has been spent NOT in the WH working; but on a Trump Property.
It costs us, the taxpayer $3m every weekend he goes golfing.
Trump doesn't even get to the Oval until 11am or sometimes after lunch; as he's watching all the Cable TV shows in the morning to be told what to think about current topics - Fox TV is running this country, not Trump
Well, the woman who sued him claiming that when she was 13 years old, and was one of the Epstein Lolitas - that Trump raped her a few times. Before she could testify in court (yes, she had a court date set) - some pond.scum from 4chan found out her address; and she received credible Death Threats. If I recall correctly, some on TD were involved in this. She did not testify and went into hiding.
There are currently two other women's lawsuits in the courts right now, in addition to Ms Daniels.
Cohen has been alleged to have been Trump's fixer to about 200 women that Trump had sex with while married. That is, Cohen was involved in paying off about 200 women before the 2016 election.
Remember Bill Cosby, once a few women came forward against Cosby, slowly more came forward; and then a great many came forward.
umm, why does Trump insist on NDAs with women he has has sex with?
Bascome ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:22:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I will toss one out there.
He beat Hilary. I always remember to compare him to her, not to perfection. As much as I disagree with some of the things he does or says I am forever thankfull . . .
I'm no Trump supporter, but doesn't really feel fair to say "well aside from the most direct way a president can promote his agenda, what has he done?"
I'm Jewish, and I post on the T_D. I'm not a National Socialist or a member of the KKK, and my beliefs are 100% opposed to those ideologies. There are black, gay, lesbian, etc people who post on T_D. They're not Nazis or the KKK either.
How many times do you need to shown you're wrong for you to realize you're wrong?
To drop the metaphors, I do think that subs that break Reddit rules (such as harassing other subs) should have some sort of punishment. But banning a sub should be a last resort (unless the very concept of it breaks Reddit rules), and subs that are just full of awful people shouldn't be punished if they can manage to respect site rules.
"Everyone who I don't like is a Nazi"
Sad to see the word Nazi entirely lose its meaning over the past few years.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:59:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs kinda annoying that the nazis and hitler are the eternal boogie men to our generation.
Didnโt they learn about pol pot, Stalin and the gulag, Stalin and the Ukraine famine, king leopald (sic), the Armenian genocide, the killing fields. Genghis khan.. etc
T_D is the most grandiose example of "The Streisand Effect" on the internet.
I can also tell all of you this; banning speech, groups, ideas you dislike or disagree with does nothing but make you look like the bad guy, thus driving people who value free speech above ideological conformity to the other side. Eliminating dissenting opinions means that the platform becomes an echo chamber where only one point of view is allowed and the site becomes a de-facto propaganda device overnight by definition.
Look, I read T_D and occasionally post there. I'm not a Nazi, nor have I ever seen Nazis there. But, if they were there in the hundreds of thousands that you would be led to believe are there, FINE, let them be there. Do you know the reason that the KKK went from having millions of members to having thousands of members? People put the KKK on TV, in movies, gave them interviews, filmed their marches and showed their violence to the world. Once the general public saw what they were really about, they rejected them.
By banning T_D, all you are going to accomplish is martyring T_D. All the hysteria about T_D is going to increase interest in T_D and sub traffic to T_D and you are going to increase subscriptions to T_D. Guess how I found T_D? /r/EnoughTrumpSpam. Guess where I found /r/CringeAnarchy and /r/sjwhate. It wasn't through the search function, it was from folks like you all, screaming about how "evil" they were (they aren't btw, they're mostly shitposters).
I apologize for going on for so long, so I will finish with this. You all may think this is a great, virtuous and moral endevour, but stop and think what will happen if political and public opinion shifts, which it inevitably always does. If this sort of behavior becomes the norm, what happens when your ideas, values and speech are deemed to be "unacceptable" by someone in power on the other side?
[deleted] ยท 38 points ยท Posted at 13:45:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 130 points ยท Posted at 13:08:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท -29 points ยท Posted at 14:02:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 14:23:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท -14 points ยท Posted at 14:31:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:25:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Can someone explain to me how t_d is full of Nazis? I see this everywhere, this supposed thing of Trump supporters being "LiTeRALlY hItLeR!", but I just can't see it. I just see traditional conservatism being shown there. It's not really about racial superiority, from the posts I've seen. Hell, I even personally know a lot of black people and Hispanics who support him. The connection just doesn't add up.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:37:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
lmao you might as well be a flat earther, that's how willfully ignorant you are
[deleted] ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 14:36:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well fascism and Nazism are pretty much the same...but if you want to split straws I think we all know why. Ass.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:55:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Nice insight from copkiller . Under what category do you fall ? Anarchists ? Thugs?
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 15:03:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Just because I hate systematic racism and oppression by the ruling class, I have to be grouped in with a political faction? How about I'm just a rational person with autonomy and compassion instead of a willfully ignorant person that buys into the nationalism and blatant hypocrisy of America?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:14:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yet , you seem to believe no people with those qualities stand on the other side of the pond right? It's a black and white world alright.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:18:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Nope, there are always shades of grey but when people buy into the type of thinking that typically follows the right, it's usually a good indication of at least a basic ignorance of how things really work. Case in point, if you vote republican and are anything but a rich white male, you are voting against your own self interest, that's just a fact. And no, I don't believe democrats are any less corrupt in the political game. The reality is we live under corporate dictatorship that masquerades as a 2 party democracy. It's been that way for decades.
I like how he said you see politics in black and white and you respond by denying that fact and then proceeding to prove that you think exactly that way. At least admit it.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:59:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Sir, my statement has no opinion attached to it. Just the facts. Tell me how I'm wrong?
Explain how a sub is fascist. What kind of power are they holding that would allow them to affect you personally besides hurting your feelings?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:43:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Obviously not the sub itself (a website isnt a living thing) but the people who support it and post pro Trump/xenophobic bullshit. Just because TD's fascism comes wrapped in an American flag instead of a swastika, doesn't mean it's not fascism.
How is Donald Trump a fascist? What policies of his specifically support this claim? Im way past the Nazi comparisons, thats even more ludicrous.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:19:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well I could give you a whole list of reasons but I'm sure you will just try to pick them apart and use some excuse as to how he's "not really" that way. The most obvious reason he embraces white supremacy: just like his money, he inherited racist views from his father who systematically discriminated against non whites (aka poor) to keep them from renting his buildings. To him it's not JUST non whites, but anyone who is poor doesn't deserve any sort of voice or rights. But let's take a look at the direct corelations between Trump and other fascist regimes throughout history: 1. He truly belives he should be installed as dictator in chief for life. No more presidereal elections if he could help it. 2. Elimination of freedom of the press (now actual truth in journalism was hijacked a long time ago by the corporate/military industrial complex adgenda) but when all other news except Fox is "fake news" he means he wants only one source of information: the one that kisses his ass regardless of the facts. In any other country this would be called State run propaganda.
3. Ultra militarism/Police state. How many old clips have you seen of China, Russia, N. Korea etc, holding huge military parades in the middle of the city showing off their weapons of mass destruction? Yeah, he wants to do that here. It's a not so subtle message of what dissenters can expect.
Yea, you didnt actually name any laws or policies that have been implemented, just a list of things Trump might have said that has offended you personally.
The white supremacy correlation is the biggest load of nonsense. Trumps agenda has been for AMERICANS, putting Americans before everyone else living in America. Americans come in all sizes, shapes, color, and creed. The true racism comes from the Left.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:02:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If you aren't aware of the fact that the ONLY people Trump cares about are himself and his corporate cronie friends, which his policies absolutely relate to then you are either genuinely deceived or wilfully ignorant. As to your first statememt, you obviously don't know your history. Hitler didn't start out rounding up the Jews, he convinced people like yourself that Germany needed to come first and not to pay attention to anyone or anything else. Seriously this isn't some partisan bullshit, this is capatalism at work and historical fact. Get a clue.
What deluded world are you living in where Trump is going to magically sweet talk his generals and admirals to subvert all of our civil rights while at the same time giving out orders to active servicemen to start rounding up deplorables and having them shipped off to camps?
Are you serious? What makes you think a general wouldnt put a gun to his head the second he came up with orders like that? Get out of your basement.
You have cited no facts, no laws or policies that the Trump administration has passed, you are using your emotions to make arguments. No one cares that you dont like Trump, that doesnt make him a bad president. It just makes you bitter and triggered.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:09:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Did I say he was going to be able to implement every policy he wants? No. As for rounding up "deplorables" that's already hapening, it's called ICE. And before you start blabbing about illegals, there's been recent cases of deportations of legit citizens and the whole department reeks of corruption and racial profiling. Just because you can rationalize our further decent into fascism, doesn't mean it's ok. And I really didn't want to resort to links but since you keep hammering my lack of "proof" (not that you'll accept it until it's you who's being fucked with, a typical right wing viewpoint) here you go.
And if you go criticizing my source, don't even bother replying because it's obvious you're just another tool of the system with no motivation to question your beloved dictator.
ICE was in existence long before Trump. They are a federal agency used to enforce American immigration laws. Obama used it to deport 2 million+ illegals from the US.
If you dont like our immigration laws, you should write to the Congress, it is their job to write the laws. The president is bound by his duty to enforce the laws.
As for that propaganda you call a source, it has the same mis-characterizations and misquotes everyone else uses to bash Trump.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:09:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I know ICE isn't new. But their abuse of power has skyrocketed under Trump, just like the rise of white supremacists and literal Nazi's marching in the streets. If you think Trump is just following protocol you are a lost cause. Good day sir. Go sing the anthem and burn a cross. You know you want to.
Nazi's arent marching in the streets because they dont exist anymore. That was a regime of soldiers under Hitler in Germany and Hitler had his ass handed to him along with all of the Third Reich. But continue living in fear in your basement.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:13:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So those in Charlottesville were just right wing snow flakes and not really racists?
Guy named cop killer thinks im the ass. Ok. You wouldnt have the balls to even look at a cop the wrong way.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:58:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Lol really? Because I remember organizing marches and fighting riot police in the streets for the sole purpose of letting them know how fucked they are. I'm not one to talk shit without backing it up.
Lil_Mafk ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 14:37:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How is T_D racist? Give me examples.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 16:07:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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Lil_Mafk ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 16:18:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So for Britain first: youโre saying disdain towards a religion is racist.
Iโve never seen anything about stormfront, and Iโve visited the sub pretty much daily since the 2016 election. Can you provide a link?
bart2019 ยท -13 points ยท Posted at 15:23:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What planet did you just came from?
sandbrah ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 16:01:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"Are you kidding me?" - basically what you just said
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:29:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone should be using ublock origin anyways.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:59:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Trolls are out in force today.
rocqua ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:19:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Is this really the direction we want? Do we want to pressure reddit into more censorship?
The_donald, red pill and similar subs are horrible, and most people agree on that, but we shouldn't ban everything we don't like. Freedom matters, simply for it's own sake.
When we start holding advertisers responsible for what their ads are accidentally run on, we end up stifling anything that might be controversial.
This isn't just happening on reddit, the same goes for youtube.
The only way these sites can deal with this is aggressive demonetization or outright banning. These sites don't have the manpower to do this delicately, so they get automated systems.
False negatives are bad, so the systems are trigger happy.
In the end, anything that might be controversial has a decent chance of being hit by this.
If we had done this 5 years ago, anything discussing gay rights would've been hit by it.
You probably know the 'first they came for ...' quote, same goes for the 'I disagree with what you are saying, but will defend your right to say it till the bitter end' quote.
Freedom of expression matters. That is why it tends to be in a lot of constitutions. Maybe we should try to preserve it, rather than snuff it out wherever the law allows it to be snuffed out.
[deleted] ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 14:07:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 14:41:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 14:43:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
T_d isn't that bad. Stop wringing your garments like a bunch of schmucks.
micmea1 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:56:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
We need to stop these political threads on bestof. I don't care about their legitimacy but they are being used to push ideology and that shouldn't be a thing on a sub meant to promote good content.
I usually just avoid subreddits I donโt like but I guess throwing a huge bitch fit over nothing works too.
Razzal ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:04:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Yeah, I blocked T_D a long time ago and moved along. Really do not understand the need to for some people to control what other people are allowed to say or listen to.
Edit: I also think that people should realize railing against it constantly only strengthens how the T_D monkeys feel and their viewpoint that they are the oppressed.
[deleted] ยท 178 points ยท Posted at 12:55:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 111 points ยท Posted at 13:15:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท -35 points ยท Posted at 13:23:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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Layback ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 14:32:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Actual nazis are national socialists. White nationalists are something else. Come on now
[deleted] ยท -28 points ยท Posted at 13:29:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And the liberal parts of reddit attract violent communists, who were responsible for the greatest death toll in human history. What's your point? Should we ban all of reddit?
There's no actual white supremacy on the sub.
[deleted] ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 14:02:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:54:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:57:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:02:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If I were a betting man, I'd say you and I are probably pretty close in terms of political opinions, but I just don't see the merit in what you're saying, and in fact I think it hurts our cause.
I will say that I'm totally open to any additional sources (like links to actual highly upvoted comments and top-level posts on t_d). Please, give me more reason to dislike that community-- because I already do owing to the fact that I find the prevailing world view over there to be stupid, childish, and facile.
BUT--I regularly stop in to see what types of ridiculous ideas or mental gymnastics they've latched onto, and I just don't see the Nazi thing. The fact that Nazis and other terrible, low-quality people are attracted to a place, does not mean that that place is those people. The way I see it, Reddit's core functionality is to let popular opinions float to the top, and make unpopular opinions sink to the bottom. And in terms of things that are popular on t_d, Nazis just don't gain a lot of traction.
Please, for the love of God, prove me wrong, because I'd really love to not feel so annoyed everytime I see a new Godwin's law infraction related to that sub. I feel like a lot more people would become disillusioned with them and their ideas if we on the left didn't make it so easy for them to play the victim and feel persecuted.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:59:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't say that you played the victim. I said that they did, and I implied that it's unproductive to call them Nazis or insinuate that they are Nazis because it allows them to sell their ideas more easily when they can claim that they are being unfairly persecuted.
I'd agree that there is a higher percentage of Nazis amongst their membership than there is in the general public. But it doesn't follow that that's automatically a meaningful indicator that their views are derived from Nazi ideals. If it was found that a higher percentage of Nazis liked the artistic style of paintings by Monet, that wouldn't indicate in any meaningful way that Monet was a Nazi himself. There are myriad better ways to show that the views espoused on t_d are stupid.
Yes, you're correct. I've seen many conversations there about the need for Lebensraum and the ongoing problems with the Treaty of Versailles. Personally I found it all a bit boring but I suppose you have to be a nazi to really appreciate it.
Should we be banning subs that encourage black and brown power too? Or female supremacy like twox? I mean since we are trying to all be egalitarian.....
SynthD ยท -32 points ยท Posted at 13:32:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If you can show your working for how white power is egalitarian weโll hear you out. But itโs not so you canโt and we wonโt.
I know this will sound hard, but I'd like you to take a step back for a moment and observe yourself. You're now complaining that this thread has been "hijacked". That means you think all those downvotes are undeserved, and that your opinion is the correct opinion, and that people are disagreeing with you out of hate or a desire to troll.
To your mind, your views are obviously right. You mean well, and you just want to help people, and you think that everyone who is good and well-meaning like yourself must absolutely share your same views. It's obvious right? Why wouldn't they? I mean, they'd have to be trolls or genuinely evil people to even begin to disagree with your desire to make the world a better place...right?
I just want you to take a step back and ask yourself "what if". What if you're wrong? Yeah yeah trump supporters are evil nazis etc, but what if they aren't? What if they don't want a racial purge? What if they aren't just saying shit to make the left angry? What if they're real people with real concerns?
SynthD ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 19:47:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Good copypasta. Can I use it on t d commenters?
I did consider that and then I saw mountains of evidence otherwise. Do you want to post on t d about how anti nazi t d and Trump and his supporters and voters are? Let me know when you do so we can watch the votes.
You just happened to have picked poorly with me. Iโve posted a few times to t d, ask the Donald and debate the alt right. I know from many of the people themselves what they think.
Reddit is foaming at the mouth trying to ban a subreddit with +500K users because it's supposedly "a breeding ground for hate/misogyny/racism/nazis/etc". Admins can't make an announcement about a new reddit feature without the comments getting flooded with "sup bro when u gonna ban td?". The outcry is so loud you would think t_d was brimming with hateful shit. Until you take a look for yourself and see that yeah it's a circle jerk for trump supporters but there's nowhere near "mountains of evidence" of hate speech that people like to claim. It's just that people think having a MAGA bumper sticker means you're a white supremacist so yeah if that's your threshold then of course you're gonna see nazis everywhere.
Go ahead, go to their frontpage right now and show me what this "mountain of evidence" looks like. Show me the "mountains" of racist memes. Show me the "mountains" of pro-nazi comments.
SynthD ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:50:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Show me that they'll upvote a broadly anti nazi post. You use the sub all the time and have seen to your personal satisfaction they aren't bad people so I have nothing for you.
So the lack of an anti-nazi post on the front page means they are pro-nazi? Do you know how many subreddits fit that criteria? Burden of proof is a simple. If you claim they are pro-nazi, prove it.
Bottom line is you won't prove it because you can't, because it's a lie. You've been lied to. I was lied to too. I was lead to believe that this was a good-guys-vs-nazis thing, until I took a look and saw it wasn't that simple, and that the "good guys" were only making it look simple because they wanted an easy excuse to ban dissent. It's much easier to rally people behind "LET'S BAN RACISTS!" than "LET'S BAN PEOPLE WHO WANT TO ENFORCE IMMIGRATION LAWS AND BORDER CONTROL!"
Its been thoroughly disproven many times. Pick your favorite from Google. I'd also wager TD is one of the most inclusive, tolerate, kind, warm subs on all of reddit. Far more tolerate and respectful than any anti-Trump circlejerk echochamber sub, that is absolutely true. No question.
SynthD ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 14:42:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Its been thoroughly disproven many times. Pick your favorite from Google. I'd also wager TD is one of the most inclusive, tolerate, kind, warm subs on all of reddit. Far more tolerate and respectful than any anti-Trump circlejerk echochamber sub, that is absolutely true. No question.
That is an interesting opinion Kerish Lotan. Emphasis added.
[deleted] ยท -13 points ยท Posted at 15:39:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
American should come first, for all Americans. Britain should come first, for all Britains. Why do you have such a problem with this? Germany should be German. France should be French. It would appear to me the people trying to dilute these cultures are the true nazi/fascists, which means you're the actual fascist, not TD.
cpet72 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:45:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The fact that you think America First is a bad thing is very telling and comical.
vodoun ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:06:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
weโll hear you out
Haha that's cute, you're talking like you're part of some group that makes decisions or impacts the real world
SynthD ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:39:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I replied to someone saying we ban subs. And we are all trying to be egalitarian.
vodoun ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:47:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, you replied to someone asking if "we" (as in all Redditors) should look towards banning all subs
You then said "if you can show "us"..." which implies that you're part of another group of people
He was being egalitarian, you were being elitist
Who's this "we" that you're talking about? And who are you going to "hear out"?
Are black, brown, or female human beings historically in positions of power that they have traditionally used to hold down potential competition from other genders or colors in most western societies? Does egalitarian mean that instead of trying to raise ourselves up we need to suppress and harm others? I find it either very disingenuous or just absolutely idiotic when people try to make this argument to defend white supremacy. There's a difference between supremacy and equality....
But aside from that, anyone that calls for violence against other humans should have no quarter here. Particularly those that do so repeatedly and for fairy tail reasons like 'race' or religion.
vodoun ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 14:08:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There's a difference between supremacy and equality
Yeah, the guy clearly was taking about black supremacist groups. What's the difference?
Do you see no difference between those that call for their communities to fight for equal protections under the law and those that call for taking away equal protections from other communities?
Maybe that's part of the problem.
vodoun ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 14:18:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Sure, which ones are fighting to take away equal rights?
Its a white nationalist group. Can yiu honestly tell me the views expressed there on race dont raise your eyebrows? It takes 5 seconds to find people earnestly discussing why immigration is bad because theyre afraid thst whites will be a racial minoroty in the US. There are tons of racists and neo-nazis there. They advertised the neo-nazi parade in Charlottesville, and then spread disinformation and apologism after it!
Isn't this a little selective? Why not tell them about other material that the general public might find objectionable, such as the NSFW content? Using the target analogy, they don't have a porn section either and many customers might find aisle 22 full of cocks a problem on Sunday shopping with the kids. Shouldn't these advertisers be aware of anything objectionable or just the stuff you don't like?
It's full of opinions that don't go with the current narrative flow, therefore = nazi. A lot of people can't handle the idea that others have opinions they don't share; the easiest way of dealing with this is simply silencing those opinions.
I donโt get why people call it a racist sub... I never see anything racist over there -at least anything that gets voted to the top. They are nationalist, but the beautiful thing about this country is that it is made up of multiple races from all over the world, so the racist thing sort of goes out the window. Just because you want tighter border control or national security, doesnโt mean you hate brown people.
More propaganda. In reality most of that subreddit is full of uninformed voters just like the rest of this website. 99% of you are borderline brain-dead.
I disagree with this, even though I do not like t_d. Since reddit is not directly curating the contents of the site as a store would a department, I would say it is more akin to a flea market, allowing a vendor selling openly racist / discriminatory goods to operate in their facility.
I peruse that sub from time to time, but I don't subscribe or understand the gripe. I assume there is a lot left unsaid here. What is the conceit here? What hateful things do LSC advocate?
Serious question, not trying to put you in a box, if it's not a direct hate for hate comparison feel free to step outside of the box. I just wanted to illustrate the analogy I tried to draw so you would understand my thought process.
They call for violence against political enemies and are an extreme political echo chamber. They tend to end up on /r/shitpoliticssays a lot for a reason.
When you say call for violence against political enemies, would it be something like "lol late stage calitalism, Rex Tillerson is our new SoS, I hope someone kills everyone in the presidential succession down to the Secretary of Veterans Affairs"? Like encouraging real grave harm?
The echo chamber I get. I usually visit when I'm feeling like the System fucked me on a particular day. Signing away my right to sue my employer, etc. But it's pretty whiny so small doses.
Jfc that's pretty bad, yep. I never go there because of a news event, and it seems like they're at their worst on a news day. That might be why I thought it was out of character. And that was the mods. At least ban the mods.
I go there when I'm nursing a personal wound from my own life and want to remind myself that what I'm feeling isn't unique. Get outside my own head.
SynthD ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 13:34:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So they havenโt actually crossed the line?
We donโt need to pick something so minor from t_d.
The difference is between the two is that some users at T_D cross the line, but the mods pull them back enough that the sub stays around. People at LSC are close to the line, and the mods egg them on to get as close as possible.
SynthD ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:00:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They burn through their mods because the admins demod anyone who permits Reddit rule breaking content. So no, the users post and the mods keep not just objectionable but rule breaking and often law breaking content.
/r/LateStageCapitalism is definitely gonna be up on the chopping block once something is done with /r/The_Donald. Really the goal of /r/stopadvertising is to get anything that resembles 4chan's /pol/ or facebook off of this site. As for now I think most people would be happy if T_D was gone or at least quarantined.
I mean the entire philosophy behind socialism, not the Bernie Sanders kind that the right labels everything, but the real true actual socialism is forcefully confiscating all property. You either let them steal your shit or they kill/jail/gulag you and take it. If we're okay with free speech then I don't mind those people espousing their beliefs, but advocating for the violent theft of everyone's property seems like the first place that ought to be culled if we're getting rid of offensive rhetoric.
Monev91 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:59:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
For what it's worth I was banned from the Donald for a dissenting opinion, however they are not nazis lol. If anything theyre basically a cringe factory at this point.
Do you guys understand what happens when the average redditor reads shit like this, then goes over to TD to investigate for themselves, and sees a bunch of funny frog memes?
They stop believing your liberal shit, like, forever.
I mean, how are you going to indoctrinate the public with your big government, socialist nanny-state ideas if you lose credibility?
Is it really worth that?
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:51:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"They stop believing your liberal shit, like, forever."
Sorting by controversial to find the non-sponsored comments has revealed this over the last few months. No one is buying it anymore.
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 15:21:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, calling the people you don't agree with "Nazis" is going to help.
Wow I have looked at a lot of T_D posts and not even one fits the description you guys are giving. Itโs a conservative political sub. Republican values are not evil. Try making a evil post I guarantee youโre going to get banned immediately. T_D may say things you donโt like but at least they arenโt completely full of shit like you.
axelG97 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:08:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Dude with such a username don't try to be someone who doesn't post there regularly. It's unbecoming to lie so blatantly.
If it was as you say (hatesub) it would have been banned like incels. You donโt believe me? Try it post something like what you are describing. Shit donโt fly bro itโs still Reddit not 4chan.
If the sub at least wanted to remove violence from both extremes I would think it's fine. But this is clearly an anti-right sub. Not a sub to remove negativity from Reddit overall.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:21:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
thanks for being the most rational comment I've read in political threads. not really familiar with what goes on in t_d but it's sad that there's so much violent talk going on, as if that's the only course of action available between the left and the right
If the sub at least wanted to remove violence from both extremes I would think it's fine.
"but both sides are the same."
They're not. Accept it. Acknowledge the difference in hate between the far left and far right. Acknowledge that while the extremists on the left push to further their own rights, extremists on the right push to take away rights from others.
But this is clearly an anti-right sub. Not a sub to remove negativity from Reddit overall.
Is it? This sub is pretty anti-hate about anything, it just so happens that far right nationalism breeds much more hate and there is much more to screenshot. I think you're making assumptions to protect your view of Reddit, this is just another reason why T_D must go.
it just so happens that far right nationalism breeds much more hate and there is much more to screenshot.
Yes, so what? That's not my point. My point is that not 100% of the appeal to violence comes from the right leaning subs. But somehow all the posts on their frontpage are about right leaning subs. That would not be the case unless they ignore socialist subs appealing to violence. In your mind it happens less often on the extreme left leaning subs. But it still happens all the time on Reddit.
I think you're making assumptions to protect your view of Reddit, this is just another reason why T_D must go.
I think I don't understand what you are thinking here. My views? I am banned from T_D. I don't like the sub. I never visit it.
Never once did he indicate both sides are the same. The left might have a more humanitarian cause but there have been very violent rallies and protests by the left. It is not just a problem with the right. What he was saying is protest both sides and any subreddit that advocates violence
The left is currently on a crusade to take away the rights of citizens. Are you just willfully ignorant? Or maliciously deceptive? I'd wager the latter.
Iorith ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:18:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is only true if you think gun ownership is not only a right, but an unlimited right.
I can't trust anyone who belittles the argument that both sides are the same. The right has some views that are unpopular on reddit but the left is not more trustworthy. Lesser of two evils is still choosing an evil. Yet you get crucified on reddit if you point that out.
Not really. to compromise your morals for a lesser of two evils is wrong. People belittling your morals because "this side did this" is even worse. Welcome to Reddit.
That's up to you. If you feel someone does not line up with your morals don't vote for them. And don't let people bully you into picking one, it's your decision really. If you want to do lesser of two evils cause you feel you have no choice that's fine, just not for me. But when people try to bully or push you into that it's just plain wrong.
I guess thatโs where we disagree. Refusing to choose is still a type of choice, especially in binary situations like elections.
Moogatoo ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:18:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There are third party choices, but I also agree not voting is a choice. There's a big difference between choosing not to vote cause you don't like either candidate and never voting at all.
I mean, yea, I do think itโs better to a pick side. Especially when weโre talking about legislation. Shit is legal or itโs not. Laws get passed or they donโt. Thereโs not really a middle ground on any given policy. So see who agrees with you more often than not and vote for them. Or I guess turn up your nose and come post about how youโre better than it all.
Calling for a more strict process to attain a gun is a crusade now? Don't act like a baby. It's called a protest. If a mentally unstable teenager can get his hands on rifle legally through the process right now, there IS a problem, and if you can't confront that, that's on you. The Parkland shooter went through all the correct legal backchannels, and now his classmates are dead. Up until he brought his rifle to school to kill his peers, he had done absolutely nothing illegal. Those legal backchannels need some work. Nobody is calling for your guns to be taken away, and the government would never be able to do that, because it would lead to a constitutional crisis (and because it's as impossible as deporting every illegal immigrant in the US - very impossible)
Holding those responsible is a great idea, but no one is doing it. The FBI and police failed here and for some reason the solution to that is more gun laws that won't fix the lack of enforcement that caused this in the first place.
Are you sure? I don't support using legislation to limit free speech, please provide evidence of 'leftist crusaders' pushing legislation to remove rights from citizens. Provide me with a source please, because when I search for legislation to limit free speech, all I can see are conservative groups.
Yeah that's a load of bullshit. You don't need an assault weapon to defend yourself. The 2A currently fails to protect U.S. citizens from being violently murdered. My country has a proportional amount of guns for its population compared to the U.S. and we don't have your gun violence problem. Whether or not a complete ban is necessary will be decided by how the right proposes alternative solutions to fix this problem: something like more comprehensive background checks, waiting periods, mental health checks, restrictions on individual trading and sales without oversight. There is simply not enough in place to prevent people who should not be getting guns from getting guns.
The U.S. doesn't have to be Australia when it comes to how it deals with gun violence, it can find some alternative solution. But it has to do something. It cannot allow this to continue or it will result in a total gun ban eventually.
Do you mean the students who protested the gun laws and culture that keep killing their peers? They were not representing the left, Democrats, or liberalism as a whole, they were representing students to don't want to be shot.
You say "representatives of the left" like checking a box for gun control views automatically checks a box for views on abortion, gay marriage, taxes, and every other issue. It isn't that simple.
[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:37:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So.. How did they manage national movements? It's really difficult to get things going in a state let alone the logistics of a Washington March.
SageBait ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 13:41:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
well the reality is that by protesting gun laws they have the same political argument as the left. it's asinine to seperate the student protests from bipartism because it's one of the root causes of the problem anyway
One issue does not make someone "left" or "right". There are liberals and democrats who are pro-life and republicans and conservatives who are pro-choice.
SageBait ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 18:29:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
cool I agree but that's totally not what I said
SynthD ยท -14 points ยท Posted at 13:31:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If you think thatโs the same youโre part of the problem. No one ever got hurt because someone discussed taking away their rights. People have been hurt by the incitement to violence and general depraved indifference to non-white lives found on the far/alt right subs.
You act as though the left is just trying to discuss it and take no actions. You'd be hard pressed to actually find any calls to violence or anything of the sort on t_d. I'm sure there's been random posts on there since anyone can make a comment/post, but that can be found in almost any sub, and is actively upvoted/encouraged often by those on /politics or /latestagecapitalism
Moogatoo ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 13:55:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Youre downvoted but you are 100% correct. It won't take you long in those subs to find people talking about beating up Republicans or how they all should be killed. It's not quite as bad as TD but to pretend it's a right wing thing is silly.
they call it " bash the fash ". it's honestly really funny if you think about it.
they're willing to violently assault people who have different political opinions than them, and they think that they are the righteous, anti-fascists. Haha. It's like they've lost the ability to self reflect.
I've seen these people call fucking Ben Shapiro a nazi. Ben Shapiro. A Jew. They are delusional.
I've never heard that? I always hear some crazy violent shit lefties are doing, but its always coming from conservative mouths. And it's just hear say. Hard to agree with something that can be made up on the fly just to influence others.
Yeah I don't agree with that facist and nazi tagging. Don't think the majority of the left that says it, but it gives the right something to latch on to and exploit. That's why false flags are so effective. If you see a peaceful protest you dont agree with, get a small group to infiltrate and start tearing shit up in disguise of the protesters. Conservative media will exploit the fuck out of it.
vizzyq ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:50:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I know that's the perception, but as the person you responded to mentioned, check the comments on /r/latestagecapitalism. Lots of calls for violent revolt.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:22:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I dont agree with the cloud act either. T_D is a sub supporting donald trump, I mean it's fairly obvious just by the name. They have their own subreddit guidelines you have to abide by just like every other sub.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:53:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yup, they got mad at the lead actor after his comments on illegal immigration. Does that make it hate speech? They basically talk shit about everyone in Hollywood once they make public political statements.
[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 16:38:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Except hate speech isn't just anything you deem mean or a different perspective.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:45:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
saitac ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:53:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Not supportive of the content of the t_d... just commenting to clarify that the US has absolutely no federal hate speech laws. Truly a staple of this country. Some states have unique hate speech laws (see Beauharnais v. Illinois for example) but that's rare.
Most of the moral positions you and I hold were once thought hateful. We should be EXTREMELY cautious about limiting a person's capacity to communicate non-violently. We can't clarify our thoughts and can't improve upon our maligned views without testing them against other people.
Edit: "can't " is probably too strong. We may be unaware that our views are maligned or may not know how to resolve them unless we can communicate freely.
The left is currently on a crusade to take away the rights of citizens.
Oh, give me a fucking break dude.
When the second amendment was written, the most powerful firearms could fire 3 rounds per minute.
The founding fathers specifically wrote the constitution so it could be adapted to changing times. I promise you when they wrote the second amendment, they were not imagining a world in which a disaffected, angry teenager could wield more firepower than an entire military unit did at the time and use it to slaughter dozens of innocent civilians just going about their daily lives.
Further, the right to bear arms has never been the right to bear any and all types of arms. You don't have the right to own a rocket launcher, for example.
Nobody is trying to take any rights away. They're asking for reasonable and responsible changes to the way we interpret and implement the second amendment so we can live safer, healthier lives.
The second amendment absolutely at its original intent was meant as a means to have access to any and all weaponry. We have whittled that away slowly over time, but the original intention to prevent tyranny has never changed.
Reasonable and responsible changes have already been made. The laws already existed to prevent this person from possessing any of these firearms. The laws were just not enforced, period. If the laws we have in place were enforced this would have never happened, at least not with guns. Adding new laws will change nothing if they are still not enforced.
No license is required to purchase or own our cannons. They are classified by the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) as saluting & signaling devices and not as a firearm or weapon."
lordtyp0 ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 14:21:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Don't forget the first amendment. People pushing for prison time for saying mean things like the left implemented in Europe.
I don't think there is some tin hat push to remove rights but, both left and right forget that a right doesn't stop just because they don't like it.
Hence law after law being shot down as unconstitutional yet they keep trying to pass.
Course, the recent FOSTA abomination was an attach by the GOP.
The left wants it to be illegal to call someone by the wrong gender pronoun. What is this country fucking coming to? Our grandparents would be absolutely ashamed.
Our grandparents would be way more ashamed by the fact that we are allowing literal nazis to show back up. What a great way to remember all of their fallen brethern by allowing a resurgence of the same evil they gave their lives to stop.
How do you define a Nazi? I've seen enough protests of white supremacists holding literal Nazi flags and using actual Nazi chants to be able to confidently point a finger and identify a Nazi.
A Nazi is a member of the National Socialistic German Worker's Party. You can use the terms racist, white supremacist, etc. Holding a Nazi flag doesn't make them Nazis. A Swedish man could hold an American flag and love the USA - doesn't make him an American,
Moogatoo ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 13:56:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah reasonable like calling an AR 15 an assault rifle because it looks scary. No one is fighting for their rights to fully automatic weps dude.
Bnjoec ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:06:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The most powerful armament was a freaking cannon. A long 9. And you know what? It was ruled that citizens could own them under the 2nd back in the late seventeen hundreds. So yeah pretty sure the Founding Fathers knew a thing or two about creating a better form of government.
The founding fathers were deeply suspicious of tyrannical governments (even, potentially, our own) and wanted us to be able to protect ourselves from such governments. In order to exercise the principle of the second amendment we may not need rocket launchers, but we need more than muskets.
I mean, that's cool from a historical perspective but I'm not sure it completely invalidates my claim. The fact that these inventions seem to have been largely ignored by military strategists and governments for decades/centuries seems to confirm my claim that the founding fathers didn't foresee a future filled with these becoming viable firearms, let alone available affordably to civilians.
I mean, the first is basically just a multi-musket/cannon. It requires you to reload every barrel between rounds. It basically turned 1 guy with a cannon into 5 guys with a musket which was probably useful in certain situations... but comparing it to modern firepower seems like a bit of a stretch. I mean, once we set aside capacity, reload speed and killing power we need to address range and accuracy if you really want to claim that the founding fathers were prescient enough to imagine what modern firearms would be capable of and still enshrine in the constitution the right to tote them around our cities during peacetime.
Though you brought up repeating crossbows so you don't seem overly concerned with directly refuting my claim that the 2nd amendment was written at a time when the sheer killing power and availability of modern weapons was beyond imagining.
Dude the most powerful weapons back then were cannons and citizens were allowed to have them. There was nothing the government had that citizens werenโt allowed and that was the point:
Dude the most powerful weapons back then were cannons and citizens were allowed to have them.
Well, first of all I think that's arguable depending on your definition of power. Cannons were powerful weapons in very particular circumstances - when they could be fired from well-defended positions at large groups or static targets. They were slow, inaccurate and easily overrun by cavalry or mobile infantry.
Secondly, what I'm talking about is what the founding fathers were envisioning when they authored the second amendment. Even if they were thinking about cannons, I promise they weren't envisioning a gang of kids rolling a few cannons onto a hillside and opening up on a school full of children for their own sick amusement or to fulfill some demented suicide fantasy.
Can you honestly tell me without a moment's second thought that if we could travel back in time and show them coverage of Columbine, Virginia Tech, Fort Hood, Aurora... that you believe they would have turned around and penned the second amendment with precisely the same wording?
Or do you think maybe they would have considered being a little more specific about the details and their intent?
Understand I am a gun owner. My father bred and trained bird dogs. I grew up competing in sport shooting competitions with him and taking days off school to hunt deer and subsequently turn them into pounds of delicious jerky. I support responsible, reasonable gun ownership.
I just believe the system we have right now is broken and the religion that has been built up around the 2nd amendment is a toxic and frightening barrier to making our relationship with guns healthier and safer for everyone who lives in this country.
Who am I supposed to be more afraid of, the government coming to take my rights away, or my angry, elderly, gun-loving neighbor and his group of drunken friends who have been radicalized to the point of furious hatred against "leftists" by years of propaganda? Who is the greater threat to my family?
The second amendment was designed to make us safer, I agree. But it's failing so why shouldn't we consider how we can fix that? The definition of insanity is to continue doing the same thing and making the same choices and expecting a different outcome...
If youโre afraid of a radicalized neighbor wouldnโt you like to have something to protect yourself? I think the second amendment is working as is. You canโt just legislate away all crime. Look at the drug war.
Youโve got to be kidding me. You tell me one serious candidate for president that was to the left of Ronald Reagan in 2016. Bernie Sanders was the only one. Dwight Fucking Eisenhower campaigned against increasing military spending and for a 90% top income tax bracket. This country has moved so far right in recent years that every single democratic ticket since Clinton has held very right wing economic views. Democrats support interventionism in the Middle East, the repeal of Glass-Steagal, and free trade agreements. They refuse to support single payer healthcare. Itโs easier to be a fucking nazi in this country than a leftist. I get it if youโre upset that centrist liberals have bad views on guns, and I agree, but to say that this country is moving towards the left is ignorant at best and blatant self-victimization at worst.
No, I didn't say the country is moving more toward the left, sorry if I made that unclear. I'm saying that the outspoken/most heard is the new far left and if you aren't with them you're against them. So even if you're a more centrist liberal with reasonable views and beliefs you're branded a Nazi by the new far left. I don't think there's necessarily more far left, just that they screech the loudest.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 13:55:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Acknowledge that while the extremists on the left push to further their own rights, extremists on the right push to take away rights from others.
The biggest lie I was ever told when I was up the ass of the left was that it was always 1 side versus the other. That the other side wanted to take away and our side wanted to give more.
It's really interesting how people will acknowledge that the right wants to take away things like- the freedom for anyone to marry regardless of sexual orientation, but won't acknowledge that the left has some MAJOR issues with wanting to remove freedom of speech and the right to assemble (I mean, only for those opposed to them. They get to keep doing what they want)
This plays heavily into freedom of speech too. Sure, advertisers can and should be able to choose what they want their products associated with, but this is being willfully obtuse.
The ads go to supporting Reddit. They don't support each and every subreddit and endorse everything on there. It's a user-based website. If you start removing things that you feel offended by because it doesn't fall in line with your world view, you're creating an echo chamber and suppressing freedom of speech.
Reddit already removed the ads from the offensive subreddits.
You're ridiculous if you think they should remove them from /all just because users voted to get something you don't like on the front page.
It's really interesting how people will acknowledge that the right wants to take away things like- the freedom for anyone to marry regardless of sexual orientation, but won't acknowledge that the left has some MAJOR issues with wanting to remove freedom of speech and the right to assemble (I mean, only for those opposed to them. They get to keep doing what they want)
The right to assemble should always be protected, indifferent of the cause or identity. Free Speech is different. You have the right to say stupid shit, but when you say stupid shit I don't have to respond with kind words and lollipops, remember that your words have meaning and you will be held accountable for your words and actions. That's how I've always treated the idea of free speech, and I think that using legislation to remove speech just because it is considered 'hateful' is wrong. We must be allowed to respond to hate with our own form of protest, protests of hate. Now that's a whole load of idealistic bullshit as far as the law is concerned now.
It's quite sad, but at the end of the day you must remember everyone has their own opinions, and mine stop where my rights end and yours begin. I disagree with legislation to limit the freedom of speech, and definitely support the right to assemble.
Remember though: free speech and the right to assemble does not absolve one of the weight of their words and actions. Accountability must remain tantamount, as we've seen what happens when bad people are allowed to get away with bad things.
This plays heavily into freedom of speech too. Sure, advertisers can and should be able to choose what they want their products associated with, but this is being willfully obtuse. The ads go to supporting Reddit. They don't support each and every subreddit and endorse everything on there. It's a user-based website. If you start removing things that you feel offended by because it doesn't fall in line with your world view, you're creating an echo chamber and suppressing freedom of speech. Reddit already removed the ads from the offensive subreddits. You're ridiculous if you think they should remove them from /all just because users voted to get something you don't like on the front page.
Seriously though, you're missing the point. I don't give a shit about whose ads are shown where. I want T_D gone because of it's numerous attempts to brigade other subreddits, vote manipulation, propaganda, hate speech, and calls to violence. I'm still not sure what the fuck Reddit is doing banning communities based around airsoft and gun trading, unless those communities are actively used to promote what I want gone from this site. I want hate groups gone, left and right based.
Is asking for removing an outlet of hate speech, calls for violence, vote manipulation, and propaganda a bad thing? Is my worldview wrong for wanting to rid the world of Nazis and violent fascists? It may be naive. I don't want to live in a world where I have to own a gun to protect myself from the world whose out to get me, and I know there are a lot of places out there that make people feel that way. I'm glad I no longer live there.
You're ridiculous if you think they should remove them from /all just because users voted to get something you don't like on the front page.
I guess you missed the whole vote manipulation thing... Which is against Reddit's Terms of Service. That alone should be enough to have them removed.
I don't disgree that it doesn't mean you have to respond kindly. It means that you can't be persecuted for it. Websites don't have to adhere to either. They can conduct their website however they like, and the free speech I was talking about was not about websites.
Already in Europe a man is going to jail for teaching his pug a nazi salute to piss off his girlfriend. Regardless of how you feel- the government should not get to decide to put him in jail because of it. That's Europe. Not some religiously ran country. America won't be far behind.
Is asking for removing an outlet of hate speech, calls for violence, vote manipulation, and propaganda a bad thing?
you might want not want to hear this- but yes. Because it's what YOU define as such. Actual Nazis and fascist propaganda get taken off this site, but that's not doing enough. Anything that hints at a specific view that challenges your own is decidedly alt-right.
Go look at T_D right now and tell me what's on the front page of it that can be attributed to anything you accused it of.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:51:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Acknowledge that while the extremists on the left push to further their own rights, extremists on the right push to take away rights from others.
What? This is literally about trying to silence the "right", and you claim the right is silencing people?
You mean taking away 2A? If the U.S. had better processes to prevent people from owning guns that should not own them (background check, mental health checks) then the left would not be saying get rid of the guns. The right completely fails to find an alternate solution to the gun violence problem unique to the United States.
You can't simply say "accept it" "acknowledge" to things that are very clearly debatable topics. If you honestly think that both sides are not the same you must not have the full picture.
They're not very clearly debatable topics, that's what the point of my post was. To represent them as the same thing is to misrepresent the ideals common to groups on the left and on the right. To simply say that both ends of the spectrum are the same is laughably false, considering that the individuals who make up this spectrum are all motivated by different ideals and beliefs. That's where this line of thinking you people propose fails: groups of individuals might support the same cause, but each individual supports that cause at a different level, with a different weight and motivation to act.
Terrorists inspired by Nationalist and Right Wing ideology have killed about 10 times as many people as Left Wing terrorists since 1992. Terrorists with unknown or other motivations were the least deadly. Islamists swamped them all.
The right is simply not the same as the left, and it's shown in the level of violence. The U.S. has a violence problem because the right wing loves violence.
Please... The stats that forbs artical uses are laughable, but good on you for using the first thing Google has. If you wanna start trying to attribute deaths to ideology to try and pad your point you may need a bit more data. The degrees of violence are debated by tons of "fact checking" groups and right and left wing media. You seem to just wanna argue from the side of "I am right and you better just change your mind" does antifa not worry you? The shooting of Congressmen by left wingers? Or maybe, I would argue, they are just loonies that don't represent the ideology they try to latch on to. The notion that because I'm right wing I'm ok with violence or crime is absurd, I would not ascribe that to you. I know the idea of td scares people but the vast majority of it is harmless. Banning people you don't agree with is childish, and trying to hide behind the notion that they are just evil violent people usually just means you don't have a strong grasp of their ideas. Why does td "have to go"? they have strong mods and ban content that breaks guidelines like everyone else. Don't hide behind the idea that they are violent. Point to direct offences and look into if they were property handled by Reddit and mods.
But no, I chose to use one the summarized other reported statistics. You can hate the site, I don't care for Forbes either, but the numbers are real and discrediting them is spreading misinformation.
does antifa not worry you? The shooting of Congressmen by left wingers? Or maybe, I would argue, they are just loonies that don't represent the ideology they try to latch on to.
No, Antifa doesn't worry me, Antifa didn't fucking exist in the United States until it became a mainstream talking point during the 2016 election you fucking moron. Antifa is anti-fascist. Clearly you can't tell by my tone against violence that I don't support fascism, and while i don't support murdering congressmen, I support investigating Mitch McConnell, Devin Nunes, and Paul Ryan for Obstruction of Justice and Treason, and any others suspected of being complicit or held under kompromat.
The notion that because I'm right wing I'm ok with violence or crime is absurd, I would not ascribe that to you. I know the idea of td scares people but the vast majority of it is harmless. Banning people you don't agree with is childish, and trying to hide behind the notion that they are just evil violent people usually just means you don't have a strong grasp of their ideas.
Banning the community is a must because they committed vote manipulation which is against Reddit ToS, are a source of growing hate speech, and is a place filled with calls to violence. I don't care where they go, they can even stay on Reddit and keep doing what they're doing, but their community has broken rules and must be removed.
So you are ok with antifa committing violence as long as it's against whoever you decide is fascist? No need to call me a fucking moron too c'mon be an adult here. The left never rioted and destroyed cities before the 2016 election cycle?
I get the feeling you are just giving your side moral superiority. Then because you are the good guys you don't feel bad about being rude and trying to silence different views. Are you aware that Reddit has big businesses committing vote manipulation constantly?
You are constantly claiming these calls to violence... Where are they? I'm pretty sure all the real ones are deleted and delt with. I doubt you have ever spent meaningful time on TD while I'm on worldnew and politics all the time.
I understand where you are.coming from. Nobody wants violence, but you can't just scream that someone is evil to discredit them. That's why Donald Trump's won. Call me an eliv no good very bad person long enough and you will get a push back.
Can't you see that? I am trying to find some common ground here.
Xystem4 ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 15:08:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Um, itโs about free speech. I agree with Reddit. I donโt like the Donald, but I support that it should be allowed to exist. I mean, he was elected President after all so that would sort of be like a really political action for Reddit, which we canโt realistically expect them to take.
If you arenโt a part of racist subs like t_d, you wonโt see them. Itโs just that simple. Thereโs no need to remove people just for voicing their opinions, however much we may disagree with them. And hey, even if theyโre being very uncivil or anything, itโs happening on their own subreddit.
So really I donโt get it at all. These people are just trying to hurt Reddit for doing what theyโve always done, and being a bastion of free speech (after all, itโs not something like a necrophilia sub, the likes of which they do ban because they do pose an objective threat and illegal actions)
Itโs funny that you say something that makes complete sense, but because you are even slightly defending the sub you get downvoted. Welcome to Reddit
Xystem4 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:13:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I can take it, thatโs them using their free speech just like Iโm using mine! (Although downvoting shouldnโt be a disagree button, but we all do it).
Besides, so far Iโm in the black! (I think that means positive? Red and black both sound rather ominous to me. And upvotes are red!)
It doesn't make sense. "Containment" doesn't work- hosting that cesspool spreads their filth through the rest of the site. Have you really looked over There? They are absolutely white supremacists that are incredibly concerned about America becoming "less white." It's fucking disgusting.
Literally his first direct answer in his first debate was โfrankly, I donโt have time for total political correctness and neither does America.โ You can see how something as candid and not desperate to sound PC resonated. His poll numbers skyrocketed.
They should post a poll on /r/announcements and ask us what we all really want them to do with /r/t_d. I know the trendy thing is to just collect our data, but people love answering survey questions about themselves.
This is hilarious. This dweeb wants to target Redditโs advertisers because a website that he freely visits
For entertainment has a section that he doesnโt like. Get over yourself. Donโt like Reddit? Donโt visit Reddit. Children.
This sub, lmao. Reddit acts like Hitler was reincarnated as a T_D mod and the whole sub is basically Nazi Germany in 2018.
Except that it's not, at all.
Pro tip: Just filter the subreddit. It's literally only 1 subreddit. And then you'll never see it again.
Roryedd ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:01:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This seems really dumb. If you don't like it, just don't click it. And you have the option to hide it if that's not sufficient.
It's a goofy meme subreddit. Reddit's probably created more Trump voters than any other source online or on television, by forcing conservatives out of r/politics, and forcing them to go to r/The_Donald. This is just making it worse.
The DAP (Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, German Workers' Party) was formed in Munich in January 1919 and Adolf Hitler joined it in September of that year. His talents for speaking, publicity and propaganda were quickly recognized,[3] and by early 1920 he had gained authority in the party, which changed its name to the NSDAP (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or National Socialist German Workers' Party) in February 1920, although "Socialist" was added by the party's executive committee, over Hitler's objections, to help the party appeal to left-wing workers.
Additionally read up on the Night of the Long Knives when those socialists were executed because they were just as hated as any other opposition to the NSDAP. And this event too place in 1934 already.
They're far-right, socialists are far-left. They killed every socialist they could find. You don't know fuck all about history or politics to make an ignorant claim like that.
Except theyโre not fucking Nazis you stupid dipshits. They just disagree with you. You morons. Calling them Nazis is like calling you all Stalinist communists.
The analogy is that the website/store have a subreddit/section dedicated to a group of people that advertisers/shoppers would find horrible that their money is going towards allowing to exist.
No where is it calling them Nazis, like you claimed, it's calling them detestable people and drawing a parallel to other detestable people in the analogy.
Isn't that how these websites work? The profitable parts allow the unprofitable parts to exist. If every sub reddit had to rake in enough ad revenue to stay on the server, would that make this website better?
Yes, that was implied...but not every sub reddit pays for itself with the adverts that are on it, and those that don't end up being subsidised by the ones that do and then some. Do you think taking this subsidy away would make reddit a better website?
Ah well that's a somewhat separate issue. Obviously not every advert is suitable to be seen on every sub reddit. There's no point in having one for baby formula on a monster truck sub reddit. Or an advert for sex toys on a sub reddit for a child's cartoon. But it's easier said than done making sure everything ends up in the right place. I still don't think a one size fits all approach with the aim to eliminate any controversial material is the answer (such as YouTube is unfortunately flirting with), however, as it goes against the "free for all" user generated material nature of the website. I have hope that there's a happy medium to be found where advertisers have more power to target their adverts.
Obviously not every advert is suitable to be seen on every sub reddit.
That's not what we're talking about here, advertisers aren't just saying "Don't put our advert on /r/The_Donald", they're not wanting their adverts on Reddit at all because of /r/The_Donald.
That's the entire point of the subreddit that this /r/bestof is linking to.
Then they can advertise somewhere else. I think the fair middle ground is giving advertisers the control they want vis-a-vis what their adverts are seen beside. But if someone running adverts on one channel takes issue with something on another channel, they can either leave or lump it - after all, that channel could well have its own advertisers.
Or Nazis on one TV channel driving away advertisers from a different channel on the same network. Or viewers.
Does that happen with any regularity? I don't think so. I think it's an incredibly small minority who would stop watching or advertising on ITV 2 because they saw something they didn't like on ITV 3.
Besides, it's not bad for the store. The appeal of the store is it caters to everyone. That's how it gets such footfall to begin with to get people interested in advertising inside it.
Yes, but of advertisers that didn't want their products shown alongside that show, what proportion would be content to advertise on the same channel during a different program, what proportion would not advertise on the channel at all, and what proportion would not advertise even on other, entirely different channels from the same network?
This is what has to be discerned for this website to operate effectively going forward.
I'd be pretty confident in saying a TV channel with a nice slot dedicated to shows about hatespeech would have a majority of advertisers pull their adverts from the channel in its entirety, just like a lot of advertisers are pulling their adverts from Reddit because of hatespeech subs like The_Donald.
and what proportion would not advertise even on other, entirely different channels from the same network?
Where does that fit into the analogy? If the TV channel is analogous to Reddit, what is the network analogous to?
Television as a whole is the Internet. Reddit is a network. Subreddits are channels. Posts on a subreddit are programs. That is, I think, the most apt analogy, and the best model for reddit to pursue as regards advertising.
I think, given control over what their adverts appear next to, the majority of advertisers will be satisfied. Besides, if your adverts aren't next to something, you oughtn't to get a say - because you're not the one sponsoring it!
I think, given control over what their adverts appear next to, the majority of advertisers will be satisfied.
But they're not. The subreddit this bestof links to is a subreddit dedicated entirely to advertisers removing themselves from reddit because of subreddits like /r/The_Donald.
I reckon if all reddits advertisers saw all the horrible content that goes on in /r/The_Donald, enough of them would back out of reddit entirely for it to be an issue.
Perhaps the reddit logo should be taken away from subreddits so there's no chance adverts in one subreddit could be construed as being linked to another. Any advertisers not satisfied by that are probably a fringe minority, after all, at that point you may as well abstain from any Internet advertising, since hate speech can be found on the Internet.
Any advertisers not satisfied by that are probably a fringe minority
You really don't know how much advertisers try and avoid being linked to controversies. I'd imagine with growing concern for trans rights, they'll be extremely cautious about them having any links to places like The_Donald, which is an absolute cesspool of open transphobia.
at that point you may as well abstain from any Internet advertising, since hate speech can be found on the Internet.
There's a difference between a website having users that occasionally making hatespeech and a website specifically going out of its way to keep a section of its website that is rife with hatespeech and incitements of violence. A website can't control the occasional user bringing up hatespeech or inciting violence, but they can control the existance of a place where these things are not only common place, but encouraged and applauded.
Again, youโre a dumbass. Just because people disagree with you politically doesnโt mean theyโre horrible. I think that far left communist shitholes like r/politics and r/esist are horrible, yet Iโm not on here demanding they be banned like a fascist, because I support free speech, unlike you dipshit freedom haters.
Oh, let's stop pretending /r/The_Donald is a political sub, it's a sub full of discrimination: Racism, transphobia, sexism, you name it, it's present on that sub.
except for t_d and trump supporters are not Nazi's in the slightest sense. you don't have to like them, but don't equate them to a genocidal ideology which killed millions
So then by your standards, anyone putting their country first is a Nazi. Because t_d and supporters aren't calling for the extermination of the Jewish and a total pure Aryan race population. Call them whatever, but they're not Nazi's. If we're going to pick apart every policy the Nazi party held and equate them to today, everyone's a Nazi. Fan of socialized healthcare? So was Hitler, Nazi.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:52:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
LoL that nutjob who wrote the comment made it look like only whites can be racists while that statement is far away from truth , just search up any reddit post about the last BLM protests , you'll see a lot of black ignorant racism ( the cop who shot was black ..still ..)
mildewed ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 13:09:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Horseshit like this shows tyrannical in their earnest idealism the young can be: "Be tolerant or I'll destroy you." Lord of the Files stuff.
Well, there's a pretty famous Karl Popper quote explaining that tolerance shouldn't be extended to the intolerant, because the intolerant will always exploit a tolerant society to spread intolerant views.
It's a pretty asinine comment that's been torn apart by other philosophers. You absolutely need to be tolerant of intolerance; inoffensive speech does not require tolerance to begin with. Only offensive speech does.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:22:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So you should be intolerant to those you personally deem intolerant? Do you know what tolerance is?
"Get rid of all the _______" is an intolerant stance. Tolerance or intolerance has nothing to do with political or social viewpoints, and everything to do with allowing the opposing viewpoints to be expressed.
You're being way too literal. I think we should give all the leftists an area of land and let them build their wet socialist dream, sort of like Israel but for leftists... and they'll starve to death as they realize the failures of their ideology.
It's a win win. The leftists get their utopia and the rest of us get rid of leftists.
On their own plot of land would they fail by having socialized medicine and communes? Because thatโs what they have in Israel.
Letโs do it. Weโll cut off the south and give it the right wingers. We can call it Jesusland. Then the remaining blue states can continue to prosper, but even more so since they donโt have to continue to support the welfare red states.
Israel has one of the most free economies in the world, you know, that awful capitalism.
Letโs do it. Weโll cut off the south and give it the right wingers. We can call it Jesusland. Then the remaining blue states can continue to prosper, but even more so since they donโt have to continue to support the welfare red states.
Yes, that's exactly what i'm proposing. Capitalism works so we would prosper. Capitalism is also the reason the blue states propser today. It's the same reason Hong Kong became the richest country in Asia and the same reason Chile went from being one of the poorest to the richest country in SA in just a few decades. Not to mention Chinas surge since they became more capitalistic.
How has things turned out for countries that reject capitalism? Do you happend to know? Venezuela, a country with the largest oil reserves in the world, they've been doing great since they started rejecting capitalism. Right?
Chackon ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:05:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
It seems like you are comparing these people to extreme left, you do know there are things in between yeah? You can still be left without being far ultra left like you guys are on the right. Just because you are left doesn't mean no capitalism should exist you nutter. But it seems your viewpoint is only in extremes, because of how far right you are that any left is full blown communism.
All they would do it impliment couple social policies like single payer healthcare and better unemployment policies. The best thing with full blown social healthcare is that it also effectively reduces the governments total budget expenditure to healthcare compared to client pays. (Compare Australia's 9% full social healthcare where people don't even need private insurance, versus your American 17% budget expend, and you have to pay for insurance while also paying thousands after any operations)
It seems like you are comparing these people to extreme left, you do know there are things in between yeah?
I think the "in between" is also extreme. Thinking you have the right to control other people and make life decisions for them is extreme. The government controling half the economy is extreme. Advocating the government stealing 30-40-50%+ of people's incomes is extreme.
You can still be left without being far ultra left like you guys are on the right.
Yeah, advocating individual freedom and responsibility is sooo extreme. I also advocate two parent households. SO FUCKING EXTREME!! What's next? I'm gonna advocate not using US tax dollars to subsidize Brazilian cotton framers? I'm such a madman. Talk about right-wing extremism... basically a nazi.
Just because you are left doesn't mean no capitalism should exist you nutter.
No it means that the economy should be atleast partly planned. That's a horrible and immoral idea.
But it seems your viewpoint is only in extremes, because of how far right you are that any left is full blown communism.
If "theft is immoral" and "we shouldn't have a nanny state making life decisions for people" are extreme opinions... I guess you're right...
I mean really. I and people like me just want to be left alone. You and people like you refuse to leave us alone and are more than willing to use violence or the threat of violence to make us do what you want. I'm not so sure i'm the extreme one...
I couldn't care less if you and your friends wanted to set up some socialist collective where you pay 80% of your income to some central organization who decides what your money is to be spent on. Just leave me alone and don't use violence of the threat of violence to make me do things I don't want to do. I really don't think that's very much to ask for.
All they would do it impliment couple social policies like single payer healthcare and better unemployment policies.
Those are terrible things. Unless by "better" you mean actually better and removing employment regulations. But you're a lefty who probably thinks the minimum wage helps poor people, so I assume that's not what you mean by "better". I assume you mean policies that give employees "more protection" which only results in making it more difficult to hire people while helping no one.
The best thing with full blown social healthcare is that it also effectively reduces the governments total budget expenditure to healthcare compared to client pays.
If it's so great and cheap you don't need government for it. If you and people like you want to pay for each others healthcare via some insurance scheme go ahead, I don't care what you do. Just leave me alone, I don't want to be part of it.
Yes, im intolerant towards intolerant people... ya know, Karl Popper and stuff.
In fact, Hans Hermann Hoppe has a very similar quote.
"In a covenant...among proprietor and community tenants for the purpose of protecting their private property, no such thing as a right to free (unlimited) speech exists, not even to unlimited speech on oneโs own tenant-property. One may say innumerable things and promote almost any idea under the sun, but naturally no one is permitted to advocate ideas contrary to the very covenant of preserving and protecting private property, such as democracy and communism. There can be no tolerance toward democrats and communists in a libertarian social order. They will have to be physically separated and removed from society."
I mean, being called a genocide advocate is pretty harsh. I'm sorry that you had to find out you're human garbage this way, id rather that you had looked in a mirror at some point in your life.
No, when it comes to Nazi's there is ZERO tolerance that should be allowed, we know exactly what they are capable of and we will never let it happen again
Yeah I get it, call us nazis long enough and people start to believe it. Go to T_D yourself and look through the top comments and posts. There is never anything close to resembling white supremacy, we donโt support it, and we hate nazis as much as we hate commies. Or continue to read /bestof posts that constantly highlight how evil we apparently are, that fits the narrative a lot better. If we were just decent people who disagreed on how to create a better country for everyone, it would be harder to disregard any potentially valid opinions we have.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 13:06:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:03:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:13:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
OP is the creator of r/RussiaLago, and constantly posts to r/politics. Sensing a bit of a theme.
Stop crossposting your political bullshit dude, seriously. It's this constant political nonsense that is hurting the left more then helping. Trumps a tool, Hillary is a tool. They both suck. Get the fuck over it.
Or keep pushing your political nonsense and red pill some more people.
I had no clue i can be brown and be a Nazi. The fact that people generalize others who have different political opinions is kinda against what they probably stand for. Yet, here i am, not caring for a persons political stance outside of reddit.
I wonder how many of you would actually tell your bosses or employees they were Nazis just because they voted Trump.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:21:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is ridiculous, yes TD is right leaning, yes some of the things they do are hypocritical, and Iโm sure many people donโt agree with them but painting them all as nazis, fascists, white supremacists is entirely dishonest. If you donโt like it you donโt have to go there, let them have their space and you have yours. Many left leaning subs do exactly the same thing TD does but they hardly get criticized, TD doesnโt leak much anyway
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:03:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I second with this because I know an upvote wonโt mean shit when there are leftist brigades and shells down voting dissenting opinions.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:04:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I expect to be downvoted, it would prove my point too. Remember kids donโt think incorrectly
It died during the last election when Identity Politics divided everyone. Now you have progressive, vs everyone right of left. I'm considered conservative, and I'm a pretty liberal person.
"Oh my god guys, there's a subreddit that isn't full of shitty stupid leftists. That means they're nazis guys! We can't even look at the stuff there because it makes us start losing faith in our stupid leftist religion..."
Their entire premise is flawed, for the simple fact that /r/The_Donald is not about (insert all the stupid buzzwords here). It's about support for President Trump.
Head over there, you'll be surprised how welcoming it is to everyone, no matter what race/gender/etc. Support the President and you're in.
Want hate? Sounds like that stopadvertising sub is the place to go.
kent2441 ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 22:44:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, itโs also about physically removing blacks and Muslims. Great place!
stanhhh ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:14:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah except there are no nazis there. I have been going there for a long time and there is nothing nazi related or any nazi shit. You all are using that word irresponsibly. T_D could be better described with many other terms that are more accurate.
I get money talks and TD is repulsive, but I can't help but worry about the long term effects of a campaign like this in the platform on the whole. I mean there are all sorts of subs that are not exactly ad friendly like subs dealing with sex or strange groups (furries or whatever), or political groups (communists, anarchists, etc.)
I mean what is being done here is basically laying the groundwork for how to remove subs that are unpopular.
Is that really how you have to phrase it to get through to people? They arenโt Nazis, theyโre a group of people who share reddit but have different views than you. TD exists for other reasons than advertising.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:11:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They wonโt ban The_Donald because it adds to much value to the site. The Donald has 20 million subscribers, no way they could delete a sub that large, itโs like half of Reddit.
If you don't count the Russian bots then it's closer to six guys and a Ukrainian bot.
embrigh ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:04:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Keep the_dumbass active and donโt ban it because as long as it scares off advertisement then thereโs hope this website will fail and this massive default subreddit circlejerk will end. I love the smaller subs but seriously at what cost.
It's sad that skunks can't smell their own stink. Politics and Redacted are swamps much worse than t_d. But, keep spilling your bullshit. It's making you all look like butthurt losers. Just like Nov. 8th.
I always find it hilarious that these folks never actually read t_d they just take it from someone else. Also, what someone considers hate speech is not banned by the First Amendment.
It's sad to see this generation of 'everyone gets a trophy' get soo upset when something doesn't go their way. I'm sure before my career is over I'll have fired over 20 of these trophy kids for their hurt feelings, vindictive attitudes, and inability to conceive that people might have different views than them.
"as a liberal black from a different country, I don't see anything wrong with that subreddit, or calling for violence against the victims of a right wing trump supporter terrorist attack"
Yes these all seem super genuine. This comments section was linked in their discord btw
Smells like brigading to me. Deflection of T_Ds criticisms directly at subreddits like politics (admittedly also shit but completely besides the point). Every top comment is a post about how T_D is some fucking pure utopia of mild jokes and humor. They have been caught multiple times negatively brigading other subs. Do I need to provide sources for that you asshats?
"Why, we're just here to support the President! And advocate violence against anyone who doesn't. And glorify the military, and demonize the media, and scapegoat various ethnic groups..."
That's the difference between people who go to the sub and people who read about the sub. Go there, read some headlines and form your own opinion. It's really nothing more than a Trump/America circle jerk
sandbrah ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 16:02:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The truth is refreshing to see here
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:52:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
His username makes me a think ollifsonโs bread and butter are being fucked with again
Dahboy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:29:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There's definitely a new algorithm. For the last 4 days just about every nsfw post is at the top of my front page. Literally top 8 posts for the last 4 days have been gone wild or something like it. They all have like 500 to 2000 upvotes while everything else below it is at 2k to 35k upvotes. Usually I see 1 or 2 nsfw posts in the top 20 on my front page but never 8 of the first 8.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:04:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, there is hate all over this site and if advertisers really knew what they were attaching there label to.
Whenever I think of Amazon all I can think of now is of the Holodomor Massacre deniers on r/latestagecapitalism and other socialist and communist subreddits
So basically any platform is not advertiser friendly? Twitter has Nazi's, Facebook has Nazi's, Google has Nazi's, etc. The subraddit is literal example of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Maybe I'm just stoned, but I have a really serious question, if you can shut down a subreddit due to blatant racism and being a breeding ground for white supremacy, that's not really removing those people from using the site. They just filter out into the rest of the site and kindle their hatred to themselves in their heads. Wouldn't it be better to allow the sub reddit to exist and have fun and make jokes, but when that antisocial aggressive racist behavior shows up, just ban those individuals from the site permanatly?
Something tells me that they aren't allowed to shut down that sub, yet.
butt-guy ยท -20 points ยท Posted at 13:48:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Man I wish I had saved it, but a while back somebody made a thread on T_D which linked to an alt-right website that called for physically assaulting the Florida kids who are protesting gun violence. I usually check t_d once a week to laugh at the mental gymnastics but that was just fucked up.
[deleted] ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 14:49:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
butt-guy ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 15:08:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I stay away from there. I used to be a regular at r/Libertarian but now that sub has been taken over by shit memes from the folk at t_d who pose as Libertarians.
axelG97 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 17:04:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah people at t_d are further away from libertarianism than most leftists
personally I think T_D shouldn't be banned, as it doesn't solve the social problem of sick people reinforcing the cancer in each other: ban them and the users will find another echo chamber on voat or 4chan or where ever. Instead the mods should be replaced by neutral mods who don't ban any dissenting users. Then the rest of Reddit will flood that place with counter arguments, and perhaps one or two of those sickos might get the help they need.
You're absolutely right, Discord chat is going crazy about some "leftist firebrand who keeps coming up with hilarious and inventive anagrams for t_d." They're really pissed!
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:14:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
its not hilarious or inventive but it makes the_dumpster posters mad sooooooo
Ah yes, the "everyone coming in from /r/all outside the echo chamber is a TD brigade" response. Because you're absolutely certain the post has no valid grounds for being criticized /s
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:56:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
they didnt even say the post has no valid grounds for being criticized dipshit. the comments of this post is literally chock full of the_dildo posters. you seem a bit thick
Someone doesn't agree with me? Well it's obviously a brigade from TD. There's literally no other explanation. It's impossible to disagree with my opinion.
[deleted] ยท -19 points ยท Posted at 14:32:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
bestof posts trigger them really really hard for some reason. dipshits in this thread pretending the_dildo isnt pure cancer ๐๐
the_dumpster posters are triggered much easier than SJWs
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:29:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
i think they arent huge fans of being called on their shit
[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 17:09:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Hey guys I don't actually post on T_D but what's wrong with them? It's just a sub for Donald Trump, our president. Also there's totally no Nazis there. Also if you censor them that's against muh freeze peach.
It's like the same copy and pasted comments over and over again.
Do you know what a brigade is? I see this complaint all the time in posts I find browsing /all, ie somewhere where tons of people will just come across it.
This would be a better title - /u/DethloksNewManager grossly inaccurately describes how reddit works to advertisers who are too ignorant of how reddit works to have ever wanted to advertise on the site anyways... but that doesn't stop him from bragging about it.
chaun2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:13:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
I know the original premise was "reddit is a place for debate, free speech, and idea exchange" They proved they don't care about free speech when they banned several subreddits a few years ago. At the time I personally wasn't affected other than thinking "well here's a slippery slope". Were I running reddit, the only subs that would have been banned would be the obviously illegal subs (CP). I may hate what has been/ is said on many subs, but I will defend with my life their right to say anything they want. By extension, I would not allow T_d, SRS, Liberal, News, World News, or any other subreddits to ban users that are expressing said right, and not just spamming. I would allow trolls to not be banned, because the freedom of speech extends to them as well. Of course this would drastically change the landscape of reddit from what we have today, and the individual communities would be allowed to have discourse with each other.
Unfortunately this isn't the world we live in. If the Admins of reddit wish to show blatant disregard for the rights of free speech in any subreddit, then ALL the cotroversial, and biased subs need to be banned, and/or given new moderators that can refrain from pushing their own sociopolitical agendas
Edit: In my ideal reddit, the extemists would be allowed to shout into the void, until they were tired enough to listen to the void whispering back. I believe my version would create a much higher percentage of "drifting to moderation", and less echo chambers
Se7enLC ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:29:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Are we ok with the idea of having reddit only host content that maximizes ad revenue?
t_d is not a great example, but it seems like a slippery slope that destroys open discourse and what little free speech still exists if we are ok with reddit administrators censoring/banning content because their advertisers don't like it.
kev8ot ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:19:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Lmao that is such a gross exaggeration. Everyone is a Nazi apparently
It's even more ironic that conservatives who beg the invisible hand of the market to tickle their balls don't like it when that invisible hand starts bitchsmacking them for supporting white nationalism.
SynthD ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:36:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs ironic or funny or stupid that you, a capitalist, went to a product of socialism, a school your parents paid for by taxes, and chose to rebel by learning nothing.
went to a product of socialism, a school your parents paid for
Not by choice. The government passed laws that forced children into the indoctrination mills. Without these laws, then a lot of people would have opted out.
Things are changing slowly and there is an "unschooling" movement growing slowly. I just saw a link that Jordan Peterson is trying to start an online school to get away from the school cults.
Same thing my wife tells me all the time, both sides are just indoctrinated to their own side. So I don't have a good answer for you as to which side is the correct one.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:42:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's also funny that they don't realize eventually these same tactics will be used on all of the content they enjoy. They aren't perfectly ideologically aligned with these advertisers so eventually they'll watch as content creators they enjoy get destroyed by some silly political movement.
[deleted] ยท -58 points ยท Posted at 12:49:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
They're trying to shut down conversation they don't like. It's certainly against free speech. Whether or not Reddit has the right to ban whoever it wants doesn't address the idea that they shouldn't because the free exchange of ideas is something worthy of protection.
Because the "neutral" subs don't allow pro-Trump content. Good luck trying to have any kind of right-leaning opinion in /r/politics.
This all started with that.
SynthD ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:37:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The free exchange of ideas is worth protecting, if it isnโt already. But only with a willing audience and either a government or a willing platform. You have no right to pick the private platform of your choice.
You can always make your own reddit and โfree speechโ it up like a motherfucker! The government, nor a source of power that you are excluded from, have not interfered, therefore you are not experiencing censorship.
censorship - the suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security
According to Google's definition, what the folks at r/stopadvertising are trying to do is censorship. They are trying to stop discussion of topics that are politically unacceptable (they consider t_d to be guilty of hate speech) and dangerous (t_d radicallizes people according to r/stopadvertising).
I have no allegiance to t_d. I think it's a close-minded swamp, but I hate seeing people trying, in an orchestrated effort, to silence others they disagree with.
But they have the ability to choose another platform from which they can spew their hatred. Or also have opportunity to create their own. Your definition of censorship is oversimplified and not applicable in this case as it is not considering every factor to interpret censorship. Calling what Reddit is doing censorship is a reach and really muddles what it truly means to be censored by a power greater than you, in a system in which you are not allowed any other venue of expression. This is not the case. Calling this censorship is akin to a hyperbole.
True, google oversimplified the definition. Itโs just important to note the differences in severity of censorship. I understand it would be frustrating to be someone who truly believes what they are saying and to have a platform shut down your conversation. But I am also considering other factors, such as which group is being silenced, how much power they currently hold politically, economically and socially. Does a group whose current political affiliation runs several branches of the government as well as a conglomerate of businesses, tied together in the interest of serving only the needs of each other merit my defense? I personally do not believe so, as they have proven capable of captivating an audience. They have won the highest office in the land. There is a movement increasing in power and numbers with their ideologies being shouted from every opportunity. I donโt consider them censored. They do, but yet they do not consider what they do censorship, and it tickles me. It tickles me because they are actively engaging in forms of societal and political currency to effectuate true censorship on groups who do not have the same pull, the same numbers, the same money, the same platforms. I am more interested in those who cannot help themselves and are crying out for help. Maybe itโs just my opinion, but itโs not an opinion Iโve made lightly. Itโs after much consideration,research, talking, discussing, listening. These things arenโt just black and white. Anyway Iโve probably bored your face off so thanks for listening.
"Behavior outside The_Donald" is literally rule 10 in T_D's sidebar. You can call bullshit all you want, but the facts aren't with you in any conceivable way.
The truth doesn't care how far you shove your head in the sand.
Clever, but there are plenty of reasonable people on the_donald. You just have to wade past all the shitheads.
Aestiva ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:55:49 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The donald has nearly 600k subscribers. Nearly one-half of the electorate voted for him. I work among high-dollar, educated professionals who all love his policies if not his antics. I live in the suburbs of a major urban area.
Most of you on Reddit are truly unaware of how much support he really has, and how un-offended many Americans are.
During the gun rights protests a day or so ago, a whole troop of professional men I know went to Cabela's to buy more guns. They're completely disgusted with what they perceive as leftist/globalist push to weaken America.
I think young urban dwelling folks are out of touch with the rest of America.
Most of the people behind r/stopadvertising and r/againsthatesubreddits and r/politics are the left wing socialist types who go on and on about how fascism is a system of government where corporations control the entire system and in the same breath argue that corporations should control what opinions are acceptable in the public dialogue.
You can't hold both of those view at the same time unless you're willing to go full Orwellian double-think (half of them are communists, so it's not much of a stretch) "corporations are bad, but they should control what media we're allowed to see.
I think this will be resolved if a supreme court verdict rules that the 1st amendment applies to public internet forums the same way SCOTUS ruled in favor of the 1A being protected in shopping malls as part of the 'public square'.
Jura52 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:54:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Jesus, what's wrong with people like this. They get countless hours of entertainment from reddit for free, and yet they can't even live with the idea of different people even using the same site they do. Even if TD is quarantied and doesn't even show up anywhere. This is the equivalent of an atheist going to church service, getting offended, and trying to close it down. Meta-Reddit activism is the most pointless, hilarious waste of time I've ever seen. Do something useful instead.
Some TDs are assholes, but reddit as a whole is not guilt free either. Remember the Ellen Pao harassment and death threats? Remember the Boston bombing debacle? T_D unfortunately does not have the monopoly on assholes.
Also, blanket accusation of a whole subset of populace as "hateful and racist" is what got you Trump as a president in the first place, and it's the reason America is more divided than ever. How about you try talking to each other, and finding common ground, instead of hurling insults and trying to silence each other?
nuunien ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:01:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
This is stupid. Stop empowering advertisers.
These fucks trying to pull ads for an entire website because some of its communities suck is just shitty power play.
I never visited t_d, the only reason I keep reading about it is because these kind of people consider it badthink and keep whining about it instead of just filtering it out.
Not having ads on when showing content for shitty subs is the correct way to go, not this stupid slippery slope.
U don't want Reddit to turn into YouTube-level ad-whores.
Edit: I accidentally a word
ubspirit ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 13:28:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs more like target creating a nazi section of their store after a customer poll requested it. Itโs still insane that they would allow it though.
I think this comparision is way off, yeah t_d is full of some less than desirable people but once you start banning/censoring them its a slippery slope until some more legitimate subs start getting banned. And like honestly anyone who thinks t_d is a sub for nazis is soft in the head, I know they're stupid trump worshipers who don't really think much before they speak but equating them to nazis is stupid, and you really have no idea about what the nazis did. This sub and countless others are only providing t_d with more attention. Advertisers run ads against a lot of questionable stuff daily without knowing about it, using that as an argument against a sub is stupid. r/bestof has gone downhill, filtering it from now on
T00N ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:55:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
As soon as the official sub for the president is deleted, reddit will be solidified as an echo chamber. I for one do not give a shit, reddit is on its last legs anyway.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:15:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Man Reddit sure is trying hard to silence the competition!
Take the worst posters on T_D and that represents everyone who visits that sub!
sakigake ยท -19 points ยท Posted at 13:29:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think the main reason Reddit hasn't banned T_D is simply that they don't want to be seen as playing favorites politically. Everybody is yelling at them to get rid of it and do something about far right subs right now, but you can be sure that as soon as they do there'll be an equally loud backlash shouting about free speech this and first amendment that.
Personally I think they should just bite the bullet, drop the pretense of being neutral, and ban these subs already. But it's just ironic to see people accusing them of keeping them for the money when you know the exact same arguments will come out if they ever do ban them.
So... In theory of we as a group we're to upvote numerous TD posts daily, they all occupy numerous pages of r/all, thus reducing ads and Reddit's revenue?
First off, unlike retailers who decide what to stock on their shelves, Reddit is a platform that allows users to offer content to other users. So if it has any real world analogue, it's much more like a flea market.
And secondly, it's not like Reddit cordoned off a space on the website and put up a sign that said "Nazis Welcome!" t_d is a sub built around supporting a person who is not only (if somewhat inexplicably) soundly within the political mainstream, but the sitting president of the country. I'm not saying that users of a private website have some kind of inherent right to freedom of speech, but killing the primary sub for supporting Donald trump would come across as an extremely political and partisan move, even if the great majority of users does think that he is repugnant and his supporters are often vile.
And I know some people are going to say that just because the sub claims to be about supporting a political figurehead doesn't mean that it doesn't practically serve as a breeding ground for hate. That may be true, but it's hardly the same thing as having a "nazi section."
I'm personally really interested in civil war history, but unfortunately so are a lot of racists who sympathize with the southern cause. And the vast majority of people who actually purchase civil war memorabilia fall into that camp. If there was a central location where such memorabilia was sold, it might very well become a breeding ground for hate. But I seriously doubt any supporter of a local flea market is going to pull their support just because it allows a seller of civil war memorabilia to set up shop in one of the stands.
Many of us can't do business with a company that advertises on a website that supports this kind of rhetoric.
Am I the only one that finds this kind of claim bizarrely hypocritical when you're still subscribed to and taking part in the site concerned?
Like you won't give money to companies that pay to advertise on a website that permits Nazis and white supremacists, but you will cheerfully stay subscribed to, inflate the user-numbers of, post content to improve the attractiveness of and possibly even be responsible for ad-impressions right on the website itself?
How is that a remotely coherent position?
bossk123 ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 15:25:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Wow, have any of you actually even visited that subbreddit? I love how the narrative that it is a racist subbreddit was spun, and now everyone pretends like there is this huge evil subbreddit now. Are all the non-white people who post on there white supremacists too? Did any of you stop to think that maybe Reddit hasn't done anything about it because upon proper investigation it turns out it's just a protrump subbreddit that doesn't violate rules? Also, if the guy who shot at the Republican congessmen was a frequent browser of a berniesanders subreddit I would not pretend like that's where he got his ideas. Crazy people are just crazy. Please, just try to be non biased and think critically for once. Its okay, I promise.
Did the BernieSanders subreddit openly embrace racist ideology? Did the BernieSanders sub have ties to the Alt-right movement that has ties to Neo-nazis movements?
This false equivalence that is being pushed so hard is why we are losing perspective on so many issues.
Many left commenters spout extremely violent rhetoric all the time, in fact I already got the first evil comment. Also how bloody easy is it to defame a subbreddit. I could go post that all right wing people should be murdered on a Bernie subreddit, a few idiots would agree with me, and then conservatives could make the strawman argument that all Bernie supporters endorse violence. It's ridiculous and you know it. All of you know I'm right, you just hate it. So many are just literally incapable of anything of vitriol. Again answer one question. What do you think about the large amount of non-white people who post and use that subreddit? Are they not "real" minorities? Are they stupid? Uncle Tom's? What racist position do you have that you invalidate them? Seriously? If that subreddit is constantly spouting racist rhetoric then why would they be there?
Either you are purposely misconstruing my message or you are oblivious to reality.
By your logic a subreddit called nazisAreGreat would actually be created by Jews to be a kind of false flag operation. Not everything is a zebra walking backwards - most times it is just a horse walking forwards.
Actually that is not what I said, not the logic I am using, and you are terrible at debating. You would literally be laughed out a debate for trying that ridiculous line. I also like how you ignored questions I asked again. You literally can't answer it. Come on, why do many non-white people disagree with you, and pst on that subreddit? No one is probably reading this, but to any observers, note how this man chooses to "debate". He doesn't answer the questions, and he uses common argument attacks. Regardless of what your politics are, don't let people like perry147 become your spokesmen. It's why democrats keep losing so many elections. This vitriol has to end, and you guys have to choose to stop it.
Again with misconstruing the message, flopping about like a fish out of water. Nothing that you have posted answers my original questions and then you accuse me of not answering your questions- when your question are irrelevant to the discussion.
If a subreddit spews hatred and racism it needs to go. Debating them only gives their racist rhetoric โ a place at the tableโ when in fact their should not be one - exactly like a place for NazisLovers should not be set.
Sorry if you are unable to understand my point.
[deleted] ยท -46 points ยท Posted at 13:01:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The only reason that sub hasn't been banned is because the admins know the subscribers would spread out and be more active in other subs. There are enough subscribers that it would cause a huge problem for reddit. Banning that sub would be the beginning of the end of reddit. The ban would piss off everyone.
JRS0147 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:37:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They will not ban a subreddit dedicated to the president of the United States even if the people posting in it are often not at all in line with the president and instead use his name to peddle their hatred.
smacksaw ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:58:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I keep saying a variation of this post...I can fix reddit right now if you just open up /r/The_Donald to everyone.
It's not a Nazi section of a store.
It's more like Costco having a membership-only Nazi club in the store. At this Target example, you're free to ignore the Nazi section just as a vegan is free to ignore the meat section. It's having exclusive, closed membership that's the problem.
This is where everyone is wrong and where reddit is wrong:
No, the point isn't to "close down" T_D. The point is to open it up.
Every single subreddit that is public needs to be open, period, end of story. No safe space, no echo chambers.
If you want a private club, reddit is not your platform for doing so.
So if /r/LateStageCapitalism doesn't like that people discuss pro-capitalism on their subreddit? Too damn bad! Ban the mods, not the discussion. If /r/The_Donald doesn't want people fact-checking their shit? Too damn bad! Raise the level of discourse in your shitty subreddit.
"But it's a rally" and "but it's for supporters" and "but it's for people who want to elect Bernie Sanders to campaign".
NO.
Not on reddit. reddit is for public communities. It's for people to come together, discuss and talk. If you're an asshole and break sitewide rules? Yes. You get a ban. But if you disagree and dissent? Too bad, buttercup. Suck it up. We need more dissent.
You need to tell advertisers that reddit isn't communities, it's factions. They are advertising to membership-only communities of people who become radicalised and extreme because they silence all dissent.
It's more like Costco having a membership-only Nazi club in the store. At this Target example, you're free to ignore the Nazi section just as a vegan is free to ignore the meat section.
...and how are you not free to ignore T_D? Who's forcing you to look at it?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:05:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So no real discussion, just unreadable skirmishes by bridgading idiots offended that something exists?
Fuck t_d, I hope it is banned, but I don't like how this stuff goes down. It's the majority censoring the minority, and even though it might be the right thing to do in this case it may not be in others.
I would much rather work towards ending anonymity on the internet than this Snowflake War of who can play the most upset and convincing victim. Make people accountable for what they say, not internet hosts.
We do not have a right to anonymity. And I'd like to see how these cowards act if their employers can google them and see who they really are.
MonaganX ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 13:23:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You do realize that there are a lot more people who would be affected by a total loss of anonymity online than just nazis, right? What about a gay teenager who has not yet come out to their parents and is seeking support? What about an employee who wants to shine light on their company's shady business practices but doesn't know how to go about it? What about someone with mental illness or another socially shunned illness seeking support and advice from others with the same issue? What about a student who wants to talk about issues with their school's administration, or a person wanting to talk about contentious issues in their community?
Don't be so eager to dismiss anonymity as "not a right". Sure, it can be used for hate-speech, online harassment, and misinformation. But it also empowers those who would unjustly be oppressed, shunned, or ridiculed, forced to keep quiet, conform, and suffer silently.
You do realize that there are a lot more people who would be affected by a total loss of anonymity online than just nazis, right?
Nope. There's no bullet in that gun. I'll happily have a sit down interview with James Lipton in front of my entire family and every person I've ever met and go into detail about the weird porn I've watched and weird things I've thought while stroking myself. The porn I've experimented with is one of the most embarrassing part of my existence, yet compared to support of Nazis, what I jack off to means less than nothing. I'm only hurting myself, I'm not calling for a system of government that is known for persecution of minorities.
Loss of anonymity isn't as scary when you're not a narcissist crafting your public persona to be as different as possible from the life you keep in private.
The "you don't have to be worried if you have nothing to hide" argument. You quote only the first sentence, but do you think your hypothetical indifference to your hypothetical confession that you've watched some weird porn invalidates all the examples of people I've listed who'd be facing actual consequences? You may be (hypothetically) willing to "put it all out there" but that doesn't mean we should readily give up our anonymity just because some guy is fine with sharing their porn habits. Not everyone's secrets are as (hypothetically) trivial as yours.
Society isn't a friendly place full of people who will accept you for who you are, no matter what, where whistleblowers and lepers are welcomed with open arms. Once we successfully get rid of homophobia, shady business practices, ableism, the stigma on certain illnesses, transphobia, and everything else on the long, long list of how we're shitty to each other, then sure, we can get rid of anonymity and not have to worry about innocent people suffering from it. But at that point, we would also no longer have cesspools like t_D, so what would be the point?
You do realize that there are a lot more people who would be affected by a total loss of anonymity online than just nazis, right?
This is a good point. Maybe the cultural enforcement of a standard that we completely ignore information on the internet unless the host or provider verifies identities would be better.
So, for example, a site like Reddit should only accept registered/verified users. Then there could be another site like Reddit which is as Reddit is now, anonymous. All we really need is the cultural understanding that we don't need to take the anonymous corners of the internet seriously, and they shouldn't even enter in to our political discussion.
The alternative is that we have a majority rules situation where the majority can censor the minority. What if T_D were right? Hell, what if T_D were actually the majority and were trying to ban reddits which oppose them? There are no perfect solutions.
All we really need is the cultural understanding that we don't need to take the anonymous corners of the internet seriously.
We already (basically) do that, or try to at least, so we could just skip right to the part where no one takes the anonymous corners of the internet seriously - but that bit's easier said than done. We've been trying for a long time, but people will still listen to completely unverified news as long as it suits their beliefs. It also wouldn't solve other problems with communities like T_D, such as providing a platform for radicalization, or for organizing their "movement".
Not that I have any good solutions myself, if there are any.
We already (basically) do that, or try to at least, so we could just skip right to the part where no one takes the anonymous corners of the internet seriously
but that bit's easier said than done. We've been trying for a long time, but people will still listen to completely unverified news as long as it suits their beliefs.
I would much rather work towards ending anonymity on the internet than this Snowflake War of who can play the most upset and convincing victim. Make people accountable for what they say, not internet hosts.
And who exactly are you, if you don't mind me asking? How can I be sure you are not just out to get the identities of the people you disagree with so you can try to silence them?
Would you please provide a picture of your drivers license and at least two different bills(electricity/water/cable/etc) so I can make sure you are who you say you are.
Irrelevant? Shouldn't you at least try to be the change you want in the world? Do you want people to stay anonymous on the internet or do you not and if you don't why won't you take lead as an example?
That's exactly what is being discussed.
No it's not. We are discussing the fact that I doubt that you want to give out your identity and only wrote what you wrote because you wish to know who the people are that you don't like.
The only ones against anonymity are those who have a wish to know who they are dealing with.
You don't think what we want to happen to T_D could happen to a subreddit you don't want to have silenced?
We want to happen? When have I stated anything about what I think about T_D and its users?
Also that is beside the point of the topic of the OP, this isn't about silencing opinions it is about trying to remove an inconvenience from a place you frequent.
T_D is the equivalent of seeing a dude diarrhea shit on the floor of isle 5 of your local store, you spot him every day you are there and you ask the managers to try to deal with it and not have him shit on the floor because it contaminates the bread.
You aren't trying to force the guy to never take a shit again in his life but that he go and do it in the toilet or the bushes instead because shit doesn't belong next to the bread.
Do you want people to stay anonymous on the internet or do you not and if you don't why won't you take lead as an example?
We're talking about whole communities. You challenging me to identify myself when everyone will will remain anonymous is completely irrelevant to the conversation.
No we are still not doing that. We are talking about individuals being anonymous on the internet and how you seem to have a problem with that.
You challenging me to identify myself when everyone will will remain anonymous is completely irrelevant to the conversation.
Of course I challenge you to it, you are the one who brought forth the idea that people shouldn't be anonymous online.
Get off your high horse and lead by example, show us who you are if you don't think being anonymous is a bad thing. If not, then we all know that you are simply out to stay anonymous yourself and have all the information you want about people around you.
Coward.
Do you even know what a community of people is made up of?
The answer is individuals and if you want a community to not be anonymous you also want the individuals in it to not be anonymous.
Your entire deal is that you want individual people to identify themselves but only as long as you don't have to do it yourself.
[deleted] ยท -16 points ยท Posted at 12:57:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
kn05is ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 13:03:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If TD were all about free speech, then they'd let other people who don't share their opinions join the conversation. GTFO of here with your hypocritical BS.
t_d makes it VERY CLEAR on the sidebar that it is a 24/7 Pro-Trump pep rally. People complaining about having gone on t_d and having been banned will inevitably have broken one of the rules. It's like going on a cat sub and posting a pic of a dog and saying cats suck and then complaining you got banned.
kn05is ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:18:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Td makes it very clear that freedom of speech is not something they truly support, specified by that rule exactly.
So don't go whining about freedom of speech when you can't even practice it. Because if you did over at TD all your lies would be drowned out and disproved instantly and they wouldn't spread as easily. Can't have that now, can you?
Pretty sure they support freedom of speech. But this is a privately owned website, and almost every other sub on this website has rules that can you get you banned if you donโt follow them...
If they didn't support it, they wouldn't have that other sub where people can go discuss.
kn05is ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:49:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's a self contradiction dawg. Can't have it both ways.
Free speech doesn't only mean saying the shit people don't want to hear, it also involves hearing what others have to say about it too. Having a separate bubble for this is a contradiction.
You may not like to hear it, but it's how it is...
And the rest of reddit is an echo chamber as well. Should we ban the rest of reddit? I got banned from twoxchromosomes because I asked for someone to clarify their views in a t_d post. Wasnโt even posting anything pro t_d
reddit has problems, no shit. and theirs this one giant orange problem that it really needs to address.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:34:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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kn05is ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:53:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If you post comments in there, and are not banned from it, then you are in with them. That is a form of support, is it not?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:49:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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kn05is ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:00:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
This is the world we live in, unfortunately.
With more and more evidence surfacing that there were concentrated attempts to sway our opinions from a hostile foreign agency and that they were using these poor gullible fools over at TD to push it. So yes, there is a line in the sand drawn and I chose a side.
Also, in this age of information, where one can discover for themselves what is fact or fake, when you have one side pushing absolute lies, easily disprovable lies, and other distortions of truths, you kinda need to pick the side that is telling the truth, right? And show the lies for what they are.
Edit: let us not forget the hateful comments that are made on there. By participating with those people, you are enabling it.
I get it, but at the same time, Amazon sells, well pretty much everything. Do you honestly think fundamentalist Christians would be OK with advertising on a site that sells dildos?
What if Christian fundamentalists still controlled the majority of culture and had the power to put Amazon out of business with their virtue signaling?
They would do call, fax, and letter campaigns to advertisers to protest shows and music they deemed inappropriate. The best known example is the "American Family Association". They staged boycotts and campaigns with some success. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Family_Association#Boycotts
It's not, I'm just pointing out that it is a common tactic used by various moralizing groups.
RaNerve ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:04:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Shouldnโt we be more interested in engaging in dialogue instead of shoving subs like the_donald away? I get why you would want them gone, but if theyโre gone it doesnโt mean theyโll stop holding onto their beliefs, theyโll just go somewhere else and then youโve removed your only avenue to engage in dialogue to hopefully change minds. The more you shove extremism away the more to festers out of sight and gets worse. Evil triumphs where good men fail to act. Just because you might have almost no hope for changing someoneโs mind, doesnโt mean you should cut off communication completely. That leads to being disconnected from a section of the population and leads us right back to how Trump got elected in the first place - people feeling like they didnโt matter and werenโt listened to.
Oo oo I know somebody make a Greasemonkey script that applies a universal theme to any reddit page and adds a line at the end of every comment that says I HATE JEWS that blends in with the background.
I'm bad at Javascript though. And is probably a total waste of effort as I spent 10 seconds thinking this up.
One problem, though: how much of Reddit content- along with the associated ad views per page- consists of people complaining about T_D?
If T_D functions like tossing chum into the water when you make money off sharks coming to fight, it's still providing a useful function to reddit advertisers.
We shouldnโt tolerate marxists either but thereโs this thing called freedom of speech. It allows people to say things you might not agree with or god forbid find offensive.
Not once I have ever seen people on t_d saying anyone who doesn't agree with them politically should be imprisoned. Clearly you have been brainwashed by the rest of reddit if you truly think that.
Only people who visit the Donald are liberals looking for things to throw at real Americans faces, and Russians posting shit to make liberals think thatโs how real Americans are. Yea I said it, sore losers.
Korast ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:21:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"Is like Target having a shopper that is a Nazi in their store." Fixed. Also the nazi stopped at a few sections of the store.
I'm sure this will be its own bestof thread any minute.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:01:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
he's he's a globalist. their spooky scarry. and communism is bad m'kay. so lets go after this capitalist who supports liberal ideas because he might be a commie!
ShooKon3 ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 17:52:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Lol yea so many Nazi's in t_d. We should round them all up and send them to death camps next amiright guys? No one should have a different political opinion from the rest of reddit. It's just not okay.
How do I know you're not a neonazi? Do you have any proof that the majority of people that post on t_d are neonazi's? I mean clearly there would have to be a lot to say t_d is like Target having a Nazi section in their store.
Yeah sure man, people trying to have the same rights as white people is exactly the same as wanting to "erase white people". Get your head checked, there is no plan to erase white people, we are the most prosperous and secure people who have ever lived in history. When equal rights looks like genocide to you, you might just be a racist.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:55:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
all American citizens have the same rights unless they are felons. at least on paper, systemic racism doesn't exist on paper either. I do say paper because people within an organization may abuse their power.
Unfortunately, "on paper" and "in reality" are 2 very different things
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:12:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
though that's the point though nothing is set up to do that people within those organizations do it of their own free will and they should be stopped from abusing their power, but it already is illegal to do in most cases. like you can't control how people think or act but you can punish them for their actions.
If you guys are to thick to understand what I am saying, is if this happens then it will happen to any subreddit advertisers do not like, to the point where reddit is only a /r/aww and /r/funny platform, reddit and youtube are committing suicide and it sucks that we can't have a variety of all things.
That analogy is terrible and eliminating subreddits destroys the whole point of reddit and will result in the migration away from this site. Pointing it out to advertisers will only speed up the process. It's like saying a bunch of racists go to target not that they produce racism themselves.
rumblith ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:58:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Banning them will force them into a safer space and set off more of their autism.
[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 15:07:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 15:39:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 15:42:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:50:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Every single time I see one of these posts I go to their front page and there's no nazi shit. The only shit I see is when someone cherry picks some obscure crap that one of their users did. Every sub has a bunch of assholes.
I think its a pretty underhanded thing to do trying to silence Trump supporters on one of the biggest social media sites on the internet. Yeah trump sucks. He's an asshole.......but whatever group is behind this should be ashamed of themselves. ghqwertt or whoever you are you should take a step back and really look at what you're doing.
You guys are pathetic. Comparing people who like Trump to Nazis? You guys are practically inciting violence. Luckily I can hold my own but Iโm a darker skinned guy that gets called dumb shit by left wing extremists like you, and put my life in danger, over lies. The Donald sub has many kinds of people of different backgrounds from different countries. Comparing them to nazis means you have serious mental issues. Wtf is wrong with you people? My best friend is black and Jewish and he is a bigger Trump supporter than I am. (Oh and weโre Canadian). Is he a fucking Nazi? You guys are pathetic.
So you're a person of colour, and your best friend is black and jewish, and you're both canadian trump supporters, and also you see no resurgence of neonazis, and you're just going to ignore white supremacists support of trump.
The only people I hear talking about white supremacy are the left. Iโve never heard of Richard Spencer until leftists started talking about him. Never once in my life have a I heard a Donald Trump supporter talk about that guy or anything about being a white supremacist. Thatโs just one example.
Honestly... whoโs actually a white supremacist? A few bumfuck backwards hillbillyโs in bumfuck Alabama? Iโm all about holding the police accountable. Iโm even for black communities shooting back, thatโs what 2A is for. So how are you gonna say Iโm supporting white supremacy? Iโm not at all. But letโs not pretend the black community is innocent either.
Are you real? Support trump all you like but the whole "only the left talk about white supremacy" shtick is absurd. Congrats on not knowing anything about current events I guess.
As a Dethklok fan this saddens me, T_d is essentially all shit posts and meme's. If they were to actively harbor the metric ass tons of Nazi content OP claims then yeah advertisers should know. I see more "Nazi" stuff on Facebook than anything that leaks from T_D
As Skwisgaar would say "Dats is totallys not cools"
Kektus ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:57:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Isn't the internet constantly at war with advertisements and advertisers? Viral marketers as well? Why do we even care about advertisers? I just feel like we don't actually care about the advertisers (I don't think we should concern ourselves with what they're doing unless it's affecting us) and are simply using them as a tool to eliminate whoever they please.
BlaeRank ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:34:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Remember, advertisers are evil and will destroy reddit as we know it.
But we'll get to stick two fingers up at the alt-right, so fuck it.
Shortsighted losers looking to get one up on their political opponents, pretty fucking pathetic.
drjams ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:42:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is ridiculous. Every social media site has subgroups, many of which are completely private to the public. Anybody talked to a damn advertiser?
And here I was thinking a better comparison would be like Target selling MAGA hats. Say what you will about T_D, but at least they don't invade other unrelated subs to spew their garbage like the anti-Trump subs do.
lavahot ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:06:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:54:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
they dont stay in that sub they brigade other subs. I'm sure they would just make another hub to continue that behavior but you gotta do something about it.
Victim of nazi brigading. My god I can't believe i had to even say it. How rediculous. If you had good enough logic, you could beat "NAZIS" through open conversation. If your arguments are so bad that you have to ban somebody, its like running to mom because someones not playing fair. If you want to beat somebody, learn to do it yourself and stop relying on admins and mods.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 12:28:10 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
you cant beat people in a conversation if they don't want to have a conversation. which they have no desire to argue because by and large they don't care what anyone outside of their circle says.
Saved comment
Qubeye ยท 505 points ยท Posted at 13:27:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone remember Ellen Pao? Caused a huge storm on Reddit for numerous reasons, but on a podcast interview recently she talked about investors pressuring her to expand the website.
As far as I can tell, the current Reddit leadership is doing the same shit. They are trying to expand and push, they just aren't doing flagrantly unpopular shit like Ellen did.
Investors are presumably putting enormous pressure on /u/spez to do the same shit.
mith ยท 639 points ยท Posted at 14:05:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Ellen Pao was a scapegoat, the board used her to take all the heat for some unpopular changes they needed to make to appease investors.
Decyde ยท 290 points ยท Posted at 14:48:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This and people overlook this too damn much.
They pushed all that garbage before she left and then told people "we'll look at policies enacted while she was in charge and make changes where needed." and they did nothing about it.
Then they put Spez in charge who was editing peoples posts which completely destroys any integrity Reddit has. I 100% believe it was so they could avoid any subpoenas by the government for records from this past election or future subpoena requests for information posted on the site.
Zestyclose_Session ยท 176 points ยท Posted at 15:38:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Spez is Steve Huffman, we should be calling these people by their real name.
digitaldeadstar ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 22:44:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I dunno. Some of reddit is pretty... unstable. Some poor bastard in the middle of Oklahoma is gonna be getting harassed because someone changed something on reddit. Not that it's hard to find his real name or anything.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:29:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I agree but am interested in why you think so?
WanderingKittenHerd ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 22:05:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
My opinion on why- usernames give a mask for people to hide behind, even if you do know who they are in "real life". It puts a disconnect between the actual person and their actions. Calling him by his actual name instead of his username is insisting that he's not allowed to have that disconnect when he has so much responsibility given the size and reach of Reddit.
Supra_Mayro ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:03:26 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not defending that, but I only remember it happening once.
Decyde ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:46:25 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It only takes once and how many people actually go back through things they post to see if they were edited.
With Hillary's tech guy posting on Reddit how to delete emails, it was only a matter of time before they were going to get a subpoena for records.
On the good side, I guess, none of your Reddit history can really be used against you in court. Your lawyer would just need to point out that anything can be edited without leaving a digital footprint and that Reddit admin's have done it before.
msbelle13 ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 18:20:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Perfect example of โThe Glass Cliffโ. Freakonomics recently did an episode as part of their CEO series that interviews Ellen and goes into detail about this concept.
manbearpig916 ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 17:22:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yup. They made changes and had her take the heat for it. Then pulled a Starbucks and brought a founder back in to withdraw some of those changes (that were inconsequential to their bottom line) to signal that they're still the website we fell in love with. Then they keep pushing Reddit towards a social media site where they can bring in more ad revenues.
wdmc2008 ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 00:49:56 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Sure, she may have been made to take the heat for Reddit's changes, but she was still a scummy person.
Let's not forget that the sued her former employer for gender discrimination and lost. Then she tried to blackmail them by filing an appeal and promising to drop it if they gave her $2.7 million.
Let's not forget that she married Buddy Fletcher, a failed hedge fund manager and black man who has sued multiple people for racial discrimination, and had his accusations dismissed every time.
I'd say if Reddit did set her up to take the fall, then it couldn't have happened to a more deserving person.
Zestyclose_Session ยท 118 points ยท Posted at 14:01:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Steve Huffman, if we want a repeat of what happened to Pao we need to refer to spez by his real name.
AliYaHaydarYaHussein ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:49:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Whoa, cool it with these anti-semitic remarks.
Zestyclose_Session ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:53:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
i didn't say anything bout jews till now? why do you idiots always have to bring up jews?
THECHEF47 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:13:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs an American Psycho reference
olraygoza ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:58:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I am starting to think the Redditors outrage against Pao was just a showcase of Sexism. Here we have u/spez doing the same thing but we donโt have the same level of outrage, personal attacks and memes we had when Pao was the face of Reddit.
NLMichel ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:03:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I donโt understand this direction at all. I work in digital marketing and could be a potential advertiser on Reddit. However we would never associate our brand with a platform where these hate groups are tolerated, even if we can avoid our ads being displayed on these subreddits, the hate groups are still a part of the website.
Qubeye ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:18:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Major companies outsource their advertising. Amazon doesn't individually purchase online ads, there's a company that is given X dollars to promote Amazon. Those intermediary companies really don't care about PR, most likely.
I do not have hard information or sources for this claim, but I have heard it a lot from Twitter feeds that deal with holding corporations accountable for providing funding to places like Daily Stormer, Brietbart, etc.
Timwi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:58:12 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If you work in that area, maybe you can answer me something I've always wondered. The number of people in T_D is not tiny, and if you add Trump supporters in general you get even higher numbers. At the time of the election that number was about 48% of US voters I think? (Not counting the non-voters, obviously) Now the approval rating is still around 30%, which is low for an approval rating of a president but still a considerable chunk of the population.
Isn't that a market worth advertising to? Aren't those people potential customers for products or services?
It seems to me a lot of people don't realize that these people are still people with a life and a desire for a good quality of life. Anything that might appeal to them, surely would make economical sense to advertise to them.
So I don't really get why everyone seems to assume that an advertiser would pull out just because you point out to them that the site has bigots and racists on it. Maybe in some cases those are the intended audience.
Is there something I'm missing?
NLMichel ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:45:31 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No you are right. I can imagine there are advertisers looking for exactly this target audience that T_D is catering to. Read this article for instance.
thenoblitt ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:25:26 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Investors would have told him to delete /r/the_donald for causing so much shit.
AggressionSsb ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:42:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Spec the republican is going to ban the Donald? Oh sureeeeee
Servicemaster ยท -23 points ยท Posted at 19:31:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They need to spend more time on /r/LateStageCapitalism and understand that infinite growth and billionaires are detrimental to society.
theorymeltfool ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 20:44:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Wait, are you serious?
Servicemaster ยท -13 points ยท Posted at 20:47:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That infinite growth is impossible and billionaires are detrimental to society? Yes. If we can bitch and moan about the Minimum Wage then I can suggest to impliment a Maximum Wage. Hashtag No More Billionaires.
There's even science behind it! Did you know it's impossible for humans to imagine what a billion of anything is, let alone a million?
theorymeltfool ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 21:02:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So youโre anti-space colonization? Why?
You can say what you want, but that doesnโt mean youโre right. Minimum wage is detrimental too and absolutely should be abolished.
First off thatโs incorrect. Secondly, I agree with you: end the government and its billion/trillion dollar budgets.
Servicemaster ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 21:34:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Musk can share his billions with his crack science team at the very least and the common folk at the most. Basic Income will help us as more and more of his and other robots take over our physical labor markets.
Minimum wage should be abolished?! Bitch people DIED for that law goddamn have some respect.
How big is a pile of a billion matches? Can you guess how many chickens the US kills a year? The answer my surprise you.
MaliciousMule ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 23:14:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
People died for slavery too. Doesnโt mean slavery was good.
Servicemaster ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 23:59:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Bruh. Both sides died to end slavery and it still exists in the 13th amendment the moment you get put in prison. It's still going on and we need to amend the 13th again as well as the 2nd.
MaliciousMule ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 01:52:26 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The 2nd Amendment is fine as is.
Servicemaster ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:11:21 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But the 13th isn't?
MaliciousMule ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:16:58 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You mean people get punished for crimes?
The humanity!
Servicemaster ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:26:53 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But we can make anything a crime. So let's be smart about that and change some laws to make more criminals of actual shitfucks instead of just people of color. #notallpoc
MaliciousMule ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:58:19 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Why am I not surprised you brought race into the discussion?
And using the modern โcoloredsโ term, to boot.
Servicemaster ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:21:02 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Because if we dont talk about it the discrimination cant continue you fatbrained fuck goddamn thats like saying the civil rights act was racist
MaliciousMule ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:22:11 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Good thing youโre so able to articulate your position in a rational, mature way.
Servicemaster ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:45:28 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Say stupid shit get stupid responses. "modern colorerds term" get the fuck out of here with our pseudo racist trolling.
MaliciousMule ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:03:22 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Right. You call them people of color and Iโm the racist one.
Just skip the middle man and call them coloreds like you really want to.
theorymeltfool ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 21:45:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, it wonโt. It will make people lazy and inhibit growth and quality of life. And donโt call me a bitch you fucking bully. Have some respect.โ๐ฟ
Glad you feel the same way about the constitution and gun laws, right? I mean people died for those too.
Glad you also agree with this:
Because people canโt comprehend billion/trillion budgets, which means GBI is dead in the water as far as your logic goes.
Servicemaster ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 00:00:40 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I don't talk to people who keep dissecting my comments, have a real conversation with me next time, thanks.
theorymeltfool ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 00:04:55 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You mean โI donโt converse with people who point out flaws in my logic.โ
๐คฃ๐คฃ
Gothmog26 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 04:57:38 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You want people to mindlessly agree with you instead of debating?
Aaronkenobi ยท 130 points ยท Posted at 14:03:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The sad thing is you could make the same argument except just say itโs like target had a section that was just naked people and suddenly all the porn on reddit goes away
processedmeat ยท 81 points ยท Posted at 15:49:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I don't want Reddit to be advertiser friendly. I don't want ads on Reddit
AmateurHero ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 17:10:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Buy gold. I know that sounds snarky, but ads, no matter how shitty or shady, pay the bills. If you don't want ads, you have to pay.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:30:49 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I would gladly pay for a monthly subscription to reddit that removed all ads and didn't sell my data. Facebook too. Ad supported websites have become cancerous.
Zaorish9 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:08:36 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
False. I have reddit gold and still get ads.
Drunken_Economist ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:21:08 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You can turn them off in your preferences page!
pi_over_3 ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 21:51:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If a company can't handle having their ads near a pair of boobs or a cock, or a political discussion then I don't want their stuff anyway.
Half the reason I became an atheist was to get away from this kind of pearl clutching.
IsaacEiland-Hall ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:03:46 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
As the clitoris is sometimes referred to as a "pearl", I chose to be highly amused by your post.
Meanwhile, I agree with you.
rocqua ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 16:29:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The real difference between nazi's at target and t_d at reddit is company policy vs user-generated content.
A slightly better analogy might be a group of a 1000 people who arrange displays in swastika's once every 100 times they go to target. Yes, it looks bad, and yes, target doesn't like it, but should target really just ban all 1000 people just to ensure they don't have a swastika every few weeks?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:29:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
dakkr ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:51:03 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, Target is a company and the purpose of a company is to maximise profit, NOT to act as moral agents. What they 'should' do is whatever furthers their purpose, thus they absolutely should NOT ban those 1000 people unless the cost of keeping them as customers outweighs the revenue they bring, which would not happen unless the situation makes the local news or something like that.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:52:12 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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Timwi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:11:29 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You're confusing what companies do because companies can only survive if they make a profit, and what companies should do because they're run by human beings who are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
dakkr ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:18:34 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not confusing anything. A company whose primary concern is turning a profit has no business acting as a moral agent. When I as a person want to decide what is right and what is wrong, I don't look to fucking McDonald's or Walmart for an example of what is morally correct, because I know that they don't concern themselves with what is right, but with what furthers their brand. And because I'm not an idiot, I understand that this is not a result of any kind of overt malicious intent, because as you said they're run by human beings, but rather that it is an inherent part of the framework of what a company IS within a capitalist system, that once a company grows beyond a few individuals it will always by necessity prioritize growth and profit over moral considerations, or else it will fail.
Your way of thinking might work in fairyland where everything is perfect and actions don't have costs. Here on Earth it's not a realistic proposition.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:26:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
baconair ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 17:30:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Porn, generally, doesn't advocate for violence.
beetnemesis ยท 2538 points ยท Posted at 12:31:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Very interesting. Is this a good summary:
๐๏ธ ghqwertt ยท 1832 points ยท Posted at 12:34:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Perfect summary!
You only left out one thing: thanks to the new algorithm, people on hateful subs now get a better Reddit experience than everyone else. No ads!
(I'm glad /r/stopadvertising seems to be working, unlike /r/SleepingGiants, which kind of fell flat.)
Shameless plug: Want to look for the missing link in the Russia investigation? Come to /r/RussiaLago!
HolySimon ยท 559 points ยท Posted at 16:07:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So they are using a product for free while the rest of us help to pay for it (by seeing and presumably occasionally clicking on ads). Reddit is therefore actively subsidizing hatred on its public forums.
St_Veloth ยท 220 points ยท Posted at 16:51:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Hey /u/spez! Whatโs the April fools gimmick going to be this year?? I hope itโs something that sends a feel good positive message that can really sell some good ad space.
[deleted] ยท 213 points ยท Posted at 16:59:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
FartOutTheFire ยท 61 points ยท Posted at 20:04:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So we just need to Steve Huffman Reddit snoo Nazi Nazis white supremacists supremacy alt right Steve Huffman people black gay hate noose Russia Vladimir Putin Donald Steve Huffman aided and abetted Charlottesville Trump collusion Jews money laundering Steve Huffman in the butt, and we'll be helping?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:16:06 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Are you saying Steve Huffman supports white supremacists?
InvaderChin ยท -16 points ยท Posted at 20:08:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No.
But if you can show me where I said it would, I'll give you a buffalo nickel*
.
.
.
*nickel offer subject to change to "ignoring your hyperbolic idiocy" without notice
FartOutTheFire ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 20:17:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If you can show me where I said you said it would you can keep the nickel.
Masked_Death ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:15:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Are you meaning to say that STEVE HUFFMAN could be possibly linked with WHITE NATIONALISM? It'd be horrible if a link between STEVE HUFFMAN and WHITE NATIONALISM was made for example by search engines due to many people connecting STEVE HUFFMAN and WHITE NATIONALISM in posts.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:48:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit is waaaaaay more communist that white nationalist, yet everyone seems to ignore that little tidbit.
oldneckbeard ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:40:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
T_D being banned will be the april fools.
ChewyZero ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 17:19:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Would be nice if it put ads in such a way that it ruined their experience. Like huge ads that block the screen, popups, ads for fake things, or things that trigger them.
HolySimon ยท 34 points ยท Posted at 17:20:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That would require reddit staff to be opposed to their message, not supportive of it.
NULL_CHAR ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:49:09 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Dear lord, because reddit isn't actively harassing T_D members, they support their message? Perhaps it's you guys who are overzealously trying to attack anyone who has a different opinion than you? Going as far as seeking censorship and physical harm on people you disagree with?
Fucking pathetic is what I'd call the general tone in this comment chain.
Psy-Kosh ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:16:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit has a few problems. But I think some of the problems can be each other's solution.
See, here's what the admins should do: They should take T_D and SRS and merge them together into a single sub (or somehow echo every post and comment in each to the other)
Then just hand out popcorn and other snacks to everyone else as we watch what happens. :)
HolySimon ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 18:40:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
By SRS do you mean ShitRedditSays or SubredditSimulator? Because either one of those would be hilarious but for wildly different reasons.
Psy-Kosh ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:06:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
SubredditSimulator isn't really a problem, is it? Just a bit of fun automated weirdness.
But T_D merged with SRS (ShitRedditSays), well... "locking those two in a room together" ought be interesting..
HolySimon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:39:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
I donโt think itโs a problem. I just think itโd be funny to mix it into the bot nest at T_D, is all.
shelchang ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:18:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
All three. Then when someone sees a post they don't like, they don't know which opposing faction to lash out against.
RamenWithoutBroth ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:11:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Youโre acting like people on here donโt already use Adblock and have the same โbetter experienceโ
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:40:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Just like red states in the US.
HolySimon ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:47:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not a big fan of the red state blue state thing, personally, but your point is well taken. Many of the less populated states are heavily dependent on the larger states for their continued existence, but that's a consequence of specialized production in the country as a whole. If each state had to survive more independently, we'd all be worse off. That interdependence and specialization is part of what makes America strong in the first place.
TrogdorLLC ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:10:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I like the cut of your jib, sir.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:47:56 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Oh please; you and I both no we never clicked on An ad in our life
HolySimon ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:22:42 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yes we both โnoโ that, you illiterate foreign halfwit.
NULL_CHAR ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:34:08 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
"People who have differing opinions of me are literally nazis and everything they do is nothing but hatred (as defined by me), so we have to take physical action to make sure they can't talk in a public forum, even though they literally are confined to their own space that no one else can see unless they literally enter that space."
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:45:31 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
NULL_CHAR ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:50:46 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Well for one, I've never even visited T_D because you literally don't even see it unless you're subscribed to it. Two, I'm not the one crying to advertisers to try to strong-arm the admins into censoring people I disagree with, nor do I support any censorship of people for differing political opinions.
Rahbek23 ยท 355 points ยท Posted at 13:03:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That is likely because the latter says nothing about what it is about in the name and if I just see that name I'd probably assume it's a sports team or something. The first is much more blunt, but also something I'd check out to see what that is about.
๐๏ธ ghqwertt ยท 442 points ยท Posted at 13:09:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Fair point, but I think the bigger problem was that the rules were too onerous. We required that people report the posts, use archive links, etc. (I just simplified the rules, but maybe I should shut it down instead.)
The name comes from the same organization that targets Breitbart.
ColdPorridge ยท 71 points ยท Posted at 13:19:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
5 minutes in and your comment is at -3. Looks like you're being brigaded my friend.
NotThatIdiot ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 13:22:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So lets do whatever we can to keep him visable!
caninehere ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:36:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
HEY GUYS THERE'S A COMMENT OVER HERE
jmz_199 ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 15:24:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, it's because he doesn't understand why the sub didn't work
cryo ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:46:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Looks like you spoke too soon, friend.
beetnemesis ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 13:23:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm now thinking I would love to play a video game called Sleeping Giants.
Maybe kind of like Zelda: Breath of the Wild, but with a hearty dose of Shadow of the Collossus mixed in. BotW already had some influences from that game, would be interesting to see it pushed even moreso.
kryonik ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:15:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Thousands of years ago, giants roamed the planet and wherever they strode, they left fertility in their wake. Then one day, an evil sorcerer infected them all with a magical plague, siphoning off the magical energy from their hearts, causing them to fall into an indefinite hibernation. Life around the world gradually faded away and the myth of the giants has been forgotten by almost everyone. The bodies sleeping giants have been obscured by the ravages of time, swallowed by forests, covered by lava, fallen into the sea or lost in the desert. Your mission is to find the giants, fight off the sorcerer's evil forces, delve into the bodies of the giants, remove the plague and restart their hearts to bring back life to a dying planet.
Martholomule ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:45:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's actually super compelling. If BOTW HAD collossi, that would be goddamn fantastic
beetnemesis ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:49:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Right? The dragons and the Divine Beasts are basically 3/4 of them anyway. And the mini-bosses are all gigantic.
Martholomule ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:26:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And there's already a climbing mechanic and everything
It's begging to be implemented
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:18:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
beetnemesis ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:29:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Hinox are so lame. Just run between their legs and spin around with a greatsword.
Lynels are freaking scary though, I got destroyed by a White-Maned Lynel while wandering around. Couldn't even beat it with cheese tactics. I've leveled up a bit, just got the Master Sword and 2 Great Faries, gonna try again.
IM_V_CATS ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:51:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The game Extinction might be kind of like that.
camp-cope ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:20:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Or a Sleeping Dogs/Skyrim mashup.
SynthD ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 13:26:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
One sub I learned about via stop advertising is the great awakening which seems to be about a microblog from a mole inside the deep state while they manipulate the media and various other claims exactly as t_d wants to see. Itโs a pretty crap name and doesnโt represent the crock of shit it is.
DenseHole ยท 55 points ยท Posted at 13:56:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That sub is where CBTS_stream(banned sub) refugees went. White nationalists are experienced in finding out how to self censor just enough to be allowed to spread their ideas.
InvaderChin ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:57:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"No, no, Mr. Huffman. We swear. We got rid of all of the people that want to murder all of the muslims and jews. Now we only have people that want to imprison the muslims and jews. That's not against the rules, right? Whatever happened to free speech?!"
frolicking_elephants ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:38:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What's CBTS mean?
Coomb ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 17:44:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
CBTS means "calm before the storm" which is a reference to Nazi site Stormfront.
Dong_World_Order ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:24:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's easy to see but it isn't exclusive to white racists. You'll see religious extremists doing very similar things on here as well as some of the non-white racist subs.
EagerJewBear ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 15:59:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What did they end up getting banned for?
Revolio_ClockbergJr ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:47:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Wtf where is this deep state
DuntadaMan ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 15:24:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Probably under Michigan somewhere
Wizzdom ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:00:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Right next to Jimmy Hoffa's burial site.
unfeelingzeal ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:48:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
it's a tossup between kansas and nebraska. they're the most landlocked states deep in the middle after all.
thadtheking ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:21:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The water table is too high here to dig very deep. My guess would be Colorado with all their pot smoking hippies.
davidsredditaccount ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:08:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Nah, that's where the Stargate is and it's risky to have anything else too close. The lizard people just pump their wastewater up to make you think the water table is high. I mean, think about it, would anyone ever live in Kansas if they weren't puppets of the deep lizard state?
thadtheking ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:05:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So you're saying that the Cornhuskers were originally called the Bugeaters for a reason and they pump their wastewater to Kansas and that's why they were fighting about the amount of water in the Republican River?
SynthD ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:18:47 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Good question. The most generous answer I can give is the non elected parts of senior state department officials. The permanent under secretarys.
I think it's mad to think that, but it's the sanest thing I can think of for a deep state with actionable power.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:55:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Wrongthinks friend.
Remember ignorance is power.
SynthD ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:44:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Oh is that why right wing parties are in power in US and UK.
cosine83 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:47:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
On Hillary's e-mail servers.
Mynameisaw ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:06:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Moscow?
howie_rules ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:01:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Sleeping giants sounds like the name of a ska band.
St_Veloth ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:05:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Their old stuff was better.
vodoun ยท 66 points ยท Posted at 13:55:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is absolutely fucking hilarious
[deleted] ยท 48 points ยท Posted at 13:06:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Kiosade ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 13:56:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
On mobile though?
velocity92c ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:06:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Been using this with great success on Android. I don't know if there's an iOS alternative : https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.jak_linux.dns66/
Paladin8 ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 14:22:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I have ublock running on firefox on my android phone.
AttackPug ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:21:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Android. For the record you can't install anything on iPhone unless you go through the Apple store, which Apple of course controls, and basically you can't have adblock on an iPhone.
In case you were wondering what the big problem was, it's Apple. Apple is the problem.
AccidentalConception ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:56:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
FireFox Focus blocks ads on iOS and there are almost certainly more that do too. It's on AppStore and very prominently displays it does block ads, Apple isn't outright blocking Ad blockers at all.
But yeah, fuck apple amirite...
horse_and_buggy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:58:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There are adblock extensions for Safari on iOS, something you cannot say about chrome on Android.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:46:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Plenty of ad blockers on IOS (Safari content blockers on the appstore) and Android.
Kiosade ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:54:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Do you know of a good one for safari? I had tried looking into it a while back but it didn't seem like there WERE any. Maybe that has changed.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:58:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I use Purify, it's been around since 2015. I suspect there maybe better and more modern options now.
http://appshopper.com/productivity/purify-blocker-fast-clutter-free-web-browsing-in-safari
ROGER_CHOCS ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:08:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I use block-this on mobile. Or AdAway if rooted.
jaddaprog ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:28:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I use bacon reader premium for reddit. No adds ever.
pppjurac ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:46:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Really a lot can be done when you are on home wi-fi router. Recipe to keep those pesky ads, tracking sites etc away:
There is software, called Pi-Hole which can be installed onto obsolete older laptop, office machine etc. After installation point DNS of home router to that machine and voila: Pi-Hole will filter all requests to those pesky servers out and flatly deny them.
It was (at begin) made for Raspberry Pi but now it runs on most of linux distros. It is free as in free beer and is awesome.
Site: https://pi-hole.net/
subreddit: /r/pihole
Inawood ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:26:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Use a good 3rd party reddit app or Brave Browser.
themiddlestHaHa ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:44:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You can also buy a $30 raspberry pi and set up Pi-hole. It is VERY easy to set up. If you were able to setup/change your wifi password, you can set up an entire adblocker for your home.
NorseTikiBar ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:10:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Sleeping Giants was never really a Reddit sub to begin with, so it makes sense that it would peter out.
The_NZA ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:03:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Sleeping Giants helped raise awareness that my marketing team was accidentally advertising on Breitbart (we thought we had blacklisted it from all our stuff but we had only blackilsted it from a portion of our campaigns).
Lots42 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:10:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The Sleeping Giants Twitter is still getting results
https://twitter.com/slpng_giants?lang=en
oldneckbeard ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:41:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Eh, that's what ublock origin is for. Now I don't have to feel guilty about blocking everything.
Fibonacci35813 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:58:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How can you justify telling an advertiser you won't support them if they advertise on their site, but still have no qualms using the site. Seems hypocritical to me
beetnemesis ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 12:59:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Hah, that didn't even occur to me
IM_NOT_DEADFOOL ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:42:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Iโve not had ads in a few days dose this mean Iโm a white suprematist?
Woolbrick ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:15:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Time for everyone to install uBlock Origin, an ad-blocker.
It's only fair that we non-Nazi's get the same experience as Nazi's.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:45:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Seems like the ULPT is to subscribe to hate subs to get rid of ads!
herestoeuclid ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:40:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Isn't that the sub the admins had to tell to stop faking screenshots?
Picnicpanther ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:34:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Sleeping Giants did catch on, just not on Reddit.
scottguitar28 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:22:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Theoretically advertisers would put pressure on reddit to ban those subs since hate or no hate, removing ads from those communities reduces the reach of the ads they pay for.
xmindallas ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:11:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well there is still the hate. I'm not sure that part of the experience is worth it.
You can look at it as a trade embargo. We're just "walling" them off from the rest of society.
Zak ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 15:39:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not.
To be clear, I very much dislike The_Donald. Moderators from that sub actually participated in a hostile takeover of /r/GaryJohnson, a sub I moderate during the election cycle. Admins promptly restored control to the original moderators, but the incident made it quite clear that some of these people are not very nice. A few of them are known to have participated in active attempts to disrupt discussion in other libertarian-leaning subs in the past as well. I'd be in favor of those people being banned for targeted harassment and breaking reddit.
What I'm not for is heavy-handed editorial control of content. One of the things that gave reddit a big boost over its more established competitor at the time, Digg, was the release of the HD-DVD encryption key. Digg censored it, while reddit did not in spite of some potential for legal liability. Many users defected and stayed.
Racist Trump supporters are far from the only thing on reddit that might be distasteful to advertisers. Today it's The_Donald. Tomorrow it's WatchPeopleDie. Next year, it's /r/WTF and eventually all we have left is /r/kittens. I love kittens, but reddit is also about zombie dogs even if that might scare off an advertiser or two.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:37:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Ahh yes the slippery slope argument... that's been right all of never.
Zak ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:52:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I don't agree, and I've been on reddit long enough to observe it.
For a long time, reddit's content policy was pretty hands-off. That has changed, and /r/stopadvertising is actively pushing to change it more. It's absolutely possible that some of the same people will find other content objectionable and successfully apply similar pressure.
Do we want a heckler's veto for content on reddit?
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:18:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You've been on reddit long enough to observe a change in society in general and the inevitable consequence of wider acceptance. Your argument directly equates removing Hatespeech with opening access to removing Kittens, because you like hyperbole and because you don't have a real argument other than the patently false slippery slope argument.
There are thousands of sites with thriving communities who do it all while not giving a platform for hatespeech and neonazi rhetoric. That you would equate an organized protest of this explicit support and liken it to us wanting to remove innocuous subreddits is the worst kind of disingenuous clap I can imagine.
Reddit does not need to protect all kinds of speech to be successful. Our protest is that it is time for Reddit to get in the saddle and actually draw the line in the sand. Either use that Quarantine, that ban, or update the rules, but stop pretending to their investors and their advertisers that they are a welcoming community. Reddit suffers from the Paradox of Tolerance.
Zak ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:16:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think you misread. I did not imply the removal of /r/kittens - rather, I implied that it would be the only thing left once everything potentially unpalatable to advertisers is removed. Everybody loves kittens, after all. You are however correct that it was hyperbole.
What I'm more concerned about is things like the recent banning of /r/gundeals. While some of the last round of content policy changes were likely motivated by the passage of FOSTA, that doesn't appear to apply to guns at all, so the motivation is most likely that facilitating the sale of guns and accessories is distasteful to advertisers.
It's similarly possible that /r/guns, /r/lockpicking, /r/HowToHack or any of many other potentially controversial subs could become targets. There's already a "boycott the NRA" movement. It's not a big stretch from that to "get gun content off social platforms".
I'd actually be OK with significantly expanded use of quarantine. Better still would be broad use of a milder version that keeps content off /r/all but doesn't block unregistered users.
pantstickle ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 14:16:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Explains why I never see any ads. Thanks again, Mr. President.
PoopIsAlwaysSunny ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:36:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Isnโt Kushnerโs family somehow related to reddit financially?
mvenice1 ยท 515 points ยท Posted at 12:44:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Wait. So Reddit not only does nothing about T_D but they actually change their money making algorithm to not show ads when T_D may be ranked highly??
Thatโs more than being negligent. That is pushing their platform. Wtf? I read that jared kushners uncle owned a firm that owns a lot of Reddit but choose to not let it bother me at the time. But wtf Reddit?
Sedric ยท 256 points ยท Posted at 13:10:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Complicit AF. I'm waiting for the day the attention from media shifts to reddit and questions are being asked. Facebook thought they were invincible too.
aiken_ ยท 129 points ยท Posted at 14:05:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Facebook has a lot more power and a better brand name than Reddit. Reddit is about halfway between Facebook and 4Chan, as far as being OK with extreme content.
So nevermind media attention... Reddit is setting itself up to be the poster child for โinternet sites make money by radicalizing the right wing, and wonโt self regulate, so we need to get involvedโ congressional inquiries.
OrgyPorgyFordandFun ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 14:50:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Congressional inquiries on what grounds?
randombits ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:01:14 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Some folks find the First Amendment icky and gross.
aiken_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:21:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously? They've summoned Tim Cook to explain Apple's tax treatment, Facebook has turned over data to an inquiry into Russian election tampering, and the heads of JPMorgan, Citibank, and Wells Fargo over financial questions.
When the inevitable t_d nut finally engages in the violence the sub often fetishizes, you think Congress is going to be like "oh, Reddit, that bastion of free speech... we can't possibly ask any questions of them"?
Madrid_Supporter ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:11:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So none of them were called up for refusing to remove political opinions that some people donโt agree with. Got it.
aiken_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:15:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's quite a straw man you've built.
Madrid_Supporter ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:21:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
At least learn what a strawman is before you try to sound smarter than your GED level brain. They have 0 grounds to call up any CEO who doesnโt censor controversial opinions.
pointsOutWeirdStuff ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:27:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"controversial opinions" thats quite the euphamism. I see why "literally calling for violence" doesn't sound as defensible I suppose
Madrid_Supporter ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:06:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Just because you donโt agree with their opinions doesnโt make them violent. If you truly cared about shutting down violent subreddits the_donald wouldnโt be your only target.
pointsOutWeirdStuff ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:08:26 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Your argument appears to be "TD doesn't include literal calls for violence... ok maybe there's some but... other people do it too" is that about the shape of it? If so do I really need to point out the flaws?
OrgyPorgyFordandFun ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:33:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
From your post that I was replying to:
"Self regulate" what? Political speech? "So we need to get involved" in what, regulating political speech?
Again, on what grounds does Congress have the right to do this?
Your examples are irrelevant. Tax policy, election tampering, and the financial system are all issues that fall under Congressional control in some for or another. Political speech does not.
aiken_ ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:21:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Read up on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Enabling_Sex_Traffickers_Act and the Backpage testimony to Congress.
Are you really saying that threats of violence count as political speech?
OrgyPorgyFordandFun ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:31:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, unless it both calls for, and is likely to lead to "imminent lawless action"
Brandenburg v. Ohio, 1969
gengar_the_duck ยท 46 points ยท Posted at 14:32:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What exactly would congress do? Free speech is protected by the constitution.
Congress doesn't have the power to censor political views.
aiken_ ยท 34 points ยท Posted at 15:15:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I guess that explains why Congress has never summoned any company's executives to explain their role in the scandal of the day.
OrgyPorgyFordandFun ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 17:04:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Again, apples and oranges. Which of those instances involved hearings on a subject that Congress has no authority to regulate? Congress has no authority to regulate speech, it's a pretty central aspect of our system of government. That you and others are failing to comprehend that fact leads to one of two conclusions, and neither are good.
aiken_ ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:20:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Why are you imagining all of that?
The 9/11 inquiries included all sorts of testimony from and about telecom.
The fact that Congress cannot regulate speech does not mean that they cannot ask companies what their procedures are for reporting child pornography or terrorist organizing.
There's tons of precedent here. Why are you so threatened by my speculation that 1) violent acts will likely be traced back to radicalization on Reddit, specifically t_d, and 2) the investigations after those facts will likely look into whether Reddit intentionally turned a blind eye to terroristic threats?
You can think I'm wrong; that t_d is all blowhards who don't mean the violent things they say. But why the straw man and naive nonsense?
OrgyPorgyFordandFun ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:43:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Child pornography and terrorist organizing are both crimes. Saying "I really hate..." or "Hey let's put all the .... in camps" are not, setting aside for a minute that the things being said in that subreddit do not even rise to that level, so far as I'm aware.
First of all, I'm not threatened by anything past what is either your ignorance or your authoritarianism. Furthermore, the "precedence" you've so far cited has not been related to the thing you're talking about. I can cite precedence that is: Both Seung-Hui Cho (the Virginia Tech shooter) and Adam Lanza (The Sandy Hook Elementary shooter) posted on 4chan what they were about to do before they did it. The founder and at that time owner of 4chan was never dragged before a Congressional committee. While true that SESTA was not in place, it also remains to be seen if it will survive the legal challenges which are sure to be pending.
BilbroDimebaggins ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 18:32:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I like how he downvoted you and didn't respond lmao. Like he really thought he had you when he started talking down to you like you were naive and dumb but you literally ended his discussion with this comment
FuturePossible ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:49:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Not saying this would or should trigger a congressional inquiry in particular but their users have made numerous posts encouraging acts of violence, which is not Constitutionally protected speech.
bollvirtuoso ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:00:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's not protected if it poses a clear and present danger of imminent harm. You're going to have a really hard time proving that unless someone makes a post and someone acts upon it a few minutes later, specifically citing the post as their rationale.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:58:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
OrgyPorgyFordandFun ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:42:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Hate speech is not illegal. It's protected under the First Amendment. Or, more accurately - hate speech doesn't exist in the legal sense.
bg-j38 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:44:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This also assumes that the people in charge of Congress actually care enough right now to investigate it.
quiette837 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:45:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
free speech in public areas. you could make the argument that reddit is private property and therefore can allow or disallow any speech they choose.
Zak ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:08:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Congress cannot compel reddit to disallow protected speech.
Iwasthey ยท -24 points ยท Posted at 15:19:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This sums up and kills this BS thread. T_D is not "alt-right". There is no such thing as "alt-right". There is however, a country full of hard-working, patriotic American men and women who love the USA, The Constitution and will support and defend the rights and freedoms created by their forefathers. America Is the shiny beacon all other countries wish they could be. https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/ is simply a reflection of that. Stop by sometime..
basicform ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:31:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Do you really genuinely believe that?
Iwasthey ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 16:43:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yep. No free, place like it on earth.
basicform ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:50:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, you're not wrong. But not for good reasons.
KashEsq ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:54:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Hahahaha good one...oh wait, you were being serious?
Atheist101 ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 16:45:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Stop equating foreign propaganda with "political views". Congress has all the power in the world to block and shut down foreign propaganda
OrgyPorgyFordandFun ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:59:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Stop equating "political opinions I disagree with" with foreign propaganda.
Atheist101 ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 17:04:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So you are choosing to ignore the indictment against the Russians for spreading propaganda on Reddit, Facebook and Twitter to influence our elections? And ignoring Cambridge Analytica and Facebook story about how they stole personal information to sell it to propaganda sources? And choosing to ignore the year long investigation which has revealed all of this?
Ok.
OrgyPorgyFordandFun ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:12:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
How many Russians were indicted? Are they responsible for every single political opinion you find distasteful? You're also misrepresenting the nature of the Cambridge Analytica scandal.
I'm not denying any of this took place, I'm denying that it is responsible for the entirety of the opinions you don't like, because it isn't. To assert that it is is laughable.
You're also ignoring the revelations about Russian involvement in leftist causes. I assume intentionally. Are all leftist political views now suspect, too? Or is that reserved for just the views you personally disagree with?
Edit: And in case that information hasn't pierced your bubble, here's one example: http://thehill.com/policy/technology/358025-thousands-attended-protest-organized-by-russians-on-facebook
Largest and most successful known effort to date pulled off by Russian-linked groups
So by applying your logic, I can now say that everyone who has ever protested against Donald Trump is spreading foreign propaganda. Neat trick, huh?
EmperorXenu ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:59:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Eventually there is going to be a high profile right wing terrorist whose radicalization is linked directly to Reddit and Reddit is going to be in some deep shit. As things stand right now, this is more a question of when than if. Reddit is sitting on a massive time bomb and seems totally unconcerned.
luquaum ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:15:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Wasn't the last shooter part of t_d?
MurgleMcGurgle ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:25:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It already happened to Reddit 5 years ago resulting in subs like /r/jailbait and /r/creepshots being taken down. Around then is when Reddit's user base began to skyrocket.
Maybe Reddit can traverse the scandals better because they've been through it or maybe they're overly confident because they beat it before. I think it's too early to tell how Reddit ends.
GoatBased ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:29:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's really hard to ban a subreddit for hate speech because many subs have hate speech and policing it is difficult. You don't want to ban innocent subs who are the victims of hate speech rather than the instigators.
jimmahdean ยท 71 points ยท Posted at 14:13:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You have to be mindful of the fact that T_D is still the "primary" Donald Trump community on reddit, and censoring that by default will result in terrible press. They're pretty much stuck between a rock and a hard place where the banning of T_D results in tons of backlash from both outside and inside the site, and leaving it alone only results in backlash from inside the site.
Moruitelda ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 14:59:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think it would be great press, honestly.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:50:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I agree. Reddits a San Francisco company. Almost nobody voted for Trump here. Aside from techno-libertarian-asshole Peter Thiel, investors would only be happy with this. Do they really care if they get a bad segment or two on Fox News?
Jeanpuetz ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:49:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I mean it would be both. Breitbart, Fox News and co. would obviously throw a hissy fit.
Every reasonable person would agree that it's the best choice though.
mvenice1 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:01:52 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I donโt even consider removal of hate speech and conversation leading to people losing their lives bc of the violence incited by this community as censorship.
T_D is not a political subreddit. Admittedly I donโt frequent that part of Reddit but Iโve never seen a political discussion originating there. Itโs just hate, racism, violence, and discussion on who their targets should be. I liked that analogy from the other day reddit:T_D :: target:the KKK section of the store. Target would remove a klan section if some rogue manager made one. They wouldnโt be chastised over hindering free speech. They would probably get a bump in stock value that day.
Iโd also support removing an antifa subreddit that discussed similar topics.
A lot of people like to say itโs best to keep them there bc otherwise they will just go make 100 other subs. I donโt agree with this. Let them make others. Just remove them too. Push these assholes back into the void they hid in until trump gave them a voice. Collectively we have been pushing these ideas to the fringe and punishing people who act on hate for years. Why is it considered a violation of free speech just bc itโs on the internet?
I live in the Midwest and know a whole lot of conservatives. They donโt talk or think like T_D.
No_MF_Challenge ยท 56 points ยท Posted at 14:24:47 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"Hey you guys censored the main DT subreddit"
Here's 50 examples of their hateful ways
"Oh carry on then"
jimmahdean ยท 127 points ยท Posted at 14:28:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It would definitely not go down that way.
InvaderChin ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 17:39:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It'd be more like:
"Hey you guys censored the main DT subreddit"
Here's 50 examples of their hateful ways
"OH MY GOD! WHAT ABOUT ALL OF THE LIBERAL HATE?! WHY CAN'T YOU FIND 50 EXAMPLES OF THE OTHER SIDE CALLING FOR FORCIBLE REMOVAL OR MAKING THREATS OF VIOLENCE AGAINST THOSE WHO DISAGREE?! WHY IS THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA SO UNFAIR TO CONSERVATIVES?!"
mvenice1 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:44:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
More like โWhatabout that time when Hillary Clinton hosted a subreddit on her personal server where she organized a Pizza Hut sex ring.โ
StabbyPants ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:36:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
i'd really expect them to say that it's a busy sub and of course there will be assholes
[deleted] ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 14:46:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Your average fox watching Trump supporter doesn't know wtf a Reddit is.
[deleted] ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 15:22:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Even if that's true they sure as shit aren't above being angry about it. Twitter troll in Chief definitely isn't.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:29:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But it doesn't matter, they fabricate things to victimized themselves all day long already.
CitizenBum ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:43:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair both extremes of the political spectrum do that to each other. More accurately, they do that to the strawman that they think represents the other side.
mostnormal ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:37:16 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Spec had to ask r/stopadvertising to stop doctoring their screenshots.
mostnormal ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:37:05 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Spec had to ask r/stopadvertising to stop doctoring their screenshots.
lemongrenade ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:48:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The average fox viewer is like 69. The average trump voted age is much lower and they are consuming information somewhere.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:54:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Sources for that?
lemongrenade ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:43:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/polls/us-elections/how-groups-voted/groups-voted-2016/
44 percent of his vote 44 or under.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:49:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's actually 42.5% under 44 with 29% being over 65, do you have a source for the actual average age of afox viewer?
AttackPug ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:25:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You're getting downvoted because we're literally talking about a Trump community on Reddit, which means a chunk of his voter base comes from here, but you're also acting like only Fox News viewers voted for Trump.
An ugly truth you need to internalize is that many of Trump's voters came from Reddit's own STEM grad white collar voting base. Funny how being the only one with money turns you Republican.
KashEsq ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 18:56:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The wealthy blue states beg to differ
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:28:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
TD already stylizes themselves a victim on Reddit, that changes nothing. The OP was clearly insinuating that TD being banned would be used by the (much larger by about 60 million+ people) Republican voter base as proof they are being victimized.
The TD brigade in this thread is obvious as fuck anyways, I'm being downvoted because those salty snowflakes feelings are hurt.
hurrrrrmione ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:19:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Except receiving higher education correlates with being liberal, and college isnโt cheap
taws34 ยท 43 points ยท Posted at 14:59:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Right. It's like the headline: "Combat veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan deported to Mexico". Just enough to rile up a lot of people... But then you see "He was caught trafficking 20lbs of cocaine, accepted plea deal" and your outrage goes away.
DeadeyeDuncan ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:35:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You should be upset that man was deported, he was doing a public service.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:11:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
providing cocaine to people?
you leftists are insaine.
Cheerful-as-fuck ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:30:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Where does politics come into it? People of all walks of life enjoy cocaine.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:56:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
kciuq1 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:34:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Feel free to show examples of the same exact stuff.
theecommunist ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:02:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
/r/shitpoliticssays has plenty.
kciuq1 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:38:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Only one out of the top 10 links on the front page right now even links to /r/politics. One person complaining that they don't like Breitbart and has a couple of upvotes.
Sounds to me like that sub is starved for content and had to expand the scope.
luxdesigns ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:29:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I would love to know where you got that 20lbs figure from.
He was charged with "manufacture/delivery of more than two pounds of cocaine".
I can find nothing that suggests an actual specific amount.
Azurenightsky ยท 49 points ยท Posted at 14:34:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What fucking universe do you live in?
MrGulio ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:57:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You are assuming that anything will be read past the first headline.
delusions- ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:18:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Who cares?
BABYCAKESxUNKILLABLE ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:12:12 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You should post those 50 examples.
No_MF_Challenge ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:25:26 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
50 was a random number but this should be more than enough
https://amp.reddit.com/r/EnoughTrumpSpam/comments/5bp4a3/i_have_been_collecting_examples_of_hatred_from/
BABYCAKESxUNKILLABLE ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:36:49 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
With how much hate they get I wouldn't be surprised if most of this is just an agent provocateur. Many people would do such a thing to further their political agenda.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 17:20:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
How are they hateful? Go find me an example from today.
edit. It has been two hours and no proof.
No_MF_Challenge ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:35:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Why's it gotta be from today? Sounds like you already know there's proof.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:44:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Find me one from this year. I donโt care. I was just making it easier for you.
quiette837 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:49:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
/r/againsthatesubreddits has you covered. they've got a whole list of things from the past few months, i'd be surprised if they didn't have a thread with stuff from today.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:06:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Cherry picked comments that are mostly deleted. I have been there. That subreddit is toxic.
pointsOutWeirdStuff ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:32:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"find me an example"
* examples found *
"those are cherry picked"
are those goalposts heavy? or have you moved them often enough that you're used to it
hurrrrrmione ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:22:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Theyโre a T_D poster, theyโre not actually interested in facts
quiette837 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:20:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, the fact that there are so many of those comments that have to be deleted is pretty worrying.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:37:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
2nd most active subreddit on the whole website so yes there is lots of comments.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 17:10:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
and yet you can find far more of this hate in the commie subs along with the 100's of anti trump subs, stop advertising itself and many more leftist subs. You people only censor what you don't like and its funny yet sad as you don't even realize the double standards you run by.
No_MF_Challenge ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:36:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Hypocritical coming from someone trying to deflect blame for t_D
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:47:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I don't post in that trash bin.
However yes they are a circlejerk sub and if you want to question them, they have another sub dedicated to that.
On the other hand you have leftist takeovers of subs like r/politics and we see what an utter trash bin that has become, as bad if not worse than T_D.
But keep going, your only going to gut support for your side further by not understanding the other.
No_MF_Challenge ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:17:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Never claimed you did
As a leftist, liberals aren't leftist. But I see your point.
I 100% understand where they're coming from. Some Trump supporters genuinely thought he would do right by them. I have no ill will towards those individuals who were tricked (although not much more than ones who voted for any candidate). It's the hateful, xenophobic ones I disdain
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:26:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I agree. Leftist are insaine and liberals have some sense left.
heh, I am going to bet you think a majority are 'hateful xenophobes'. BTW, wanting to protect our borders is not hateful or xenophobic, but you will never use any logic anyway.
Leftist are a cancer on the US, you fucks are pushing marxist ideals that would destroy our country faster than venezuela has been...
No_MF_Challenge ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:45:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What happened to understanding the other side?? You have a lot of vitriol now.
Other than that, you didn't make an actual argument in reply to me. More personal attacks about a label than anything else.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:52:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well, I understand leftist and that includes leftist political history which has a track record of 110 million dead via purges and government creeds directly pushed by your style of collective goverment.
Thus, vitral is appropriate since your ideals are so horrible you should be at least shocked into actualy thinking about your ideals.
Most leftist ideals are utopian and go against human nature. For that reason your leftist ideals will never work and every time they are tired, they directly cause millions of deaths.
That is because nothing I say, no facts, no history or anything will get through to you. Collectivists are like that and I have stopped trying to argue with your ilk long ago, especially on reddit since so many leftists reside here that it just makes it too easy for you to step inside your circlejerk bubble and never come out.
There is no common ground between us because our ideals are collectivist (you) vs individualist (me). They are fundamentally so diffrent that we are not working to the same goal and thus can't really discuss anything in earnest until we settle the individual vs collective debate, somthing that will never happen on reddit so long as people want handouts and people want to be left alone.
No_MF_Challenge ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:26:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The 'hundred million dead' myth has been debunked.. Even mathematically it would've been impossible in the USSR. Besides, a collective government doesn't intently necessitate any of that.
Right. We agree on that. I shit on anarchists for thinking the Utopia is achievable seemingly overnight. Marx himself said communism is utopian. As far as human nature is concerned communism is closer to egalitarian societies that existed in most native American tribes.
If you think there's no common ground I gurantee you haven't made a single, honest attempt at understanding a leftist. Individualism vs collectivism is but a minor role that I think you're overreacting about. Of course they're opposites but you'll never come to any agreements calling yourself individualistic instead of being open minded.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:38:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
hahahaha, this is holocaust denial level shit.
BTW, the USSR was not the only communist goverment to kill its people.
no. this is so wrong its laughable. Communism can never be a thing because of human nature. It promotes mediocrity, it collapses systems and gets taken over easily by dictators.
I am an open minded individuals, sorry, but I will never accept you making a decision over me simply because I am in the same group as you. You don't know what is best for me individually.
These two ideologies are fundamentally incompatible.
No_MF_Challenge ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:17:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And socialist (read: not communist) countries aren't the only ones with civilian death tolls in the millions. There are millions dying preventable deaths within a year for to capitalists pricing basic necessities out of reach.
It seems like you haven't done any research into what communism actually IS. If you're really interested in what 'human nature' consists of I think you'd enjoy reading Kropotkin's 'Mutual Aid'
If you think I, an individual, can make a decision then you have yet again proven how fundamentally flawed your understanding of communism is.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:26:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
yet capitalism has raised billions out of poverty to the point where china is no longer the ultra communist state it was.
This is a dumb argument. That is not people being killed because of their goverment, that is people dying because resources are scarce. Welcome to all of human history child.
Holy fuck, how are you this dumb? I have done plenty of research into marxist ideals, yet you are the only one here who does not seem to understand it and blindly support the worst political ideology ever devised.
You no, but you want the goverment, which would include people who think like you, to do that. You really don't have any idea what you are talking about. go read up on history and stop drinking the propaganda kool aid.
I'm done with your brand of stupid. I hope you and all marxists who want to ruin our country have a very bad day.
No_MF_Challenge ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:39:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
On the back of other billions, yes. It's exploitation, not a hard work ethic.
Maybe back when these things were readily available and industrialized. Nowadays, nobody should have to pay for food, water, or healthcare. But when there's a profit to be made...
Marxism itself is a critique of capitalism, not a government or economic system. Which books have you read by marxists, specifically? Or do you get your 'Marxist ideals' through capitalist sources?
The government would include the same people it does today. It would just work differently.
Ah, I do recall saying you never seriously attempted to get to know a leftist
z500 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:29:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Worse press than leaving that shithole where it is? They should ban his fan subs and keep banning them until they either learn to behave or go elsewhere. Fuck them.
OhhhhNooooThatSucks ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 17:25:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Define behave? As far as the constitution of the United States is concerned, you should behave and respect your political opponentsโ rights there, cupcake. But we all know you arenโt going to. As long as you keep your derangement on the internet where nobody cares what you think, I guess you can continue to rave like a lunatic.
inb4 racistbigothomophobetdpostertrash
hurrrrrmione ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:26:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit is free to deny service to whoever they want as long as they donโt discriminate against protected classes.
OhhhhNooooThatSucks ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:41:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Iโm a gay trump supporter. There, now I can say whatever the fuck I want and Reddit canโt do shit.
hurrrrrmione ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:44:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Donโt try and pull that fucking shit on me.
nucleartime ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:21:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Stupid idea: add admins to the t_d mod team to change the SR rules to allow any discussion of DT that falls within site rules (including actively enforcing site rules against hate speech) and let actual free speech sort that shit out. Pretty sure everybody there would scatter once they learned it was no longer an echo chamber. It wouldn't be "censored", it'd be the literal opposite. You'd probably still get internal backlash from subreddit meddling, but outside backlash would probably get lost in the nuances (they killed it? It's still there.).
jokersleuth ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:36:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Please stop justifying their existence by claiming they're the only Donald sub. Other Donald subs tried to exist but the_donald brigades them and turns them to shit. How about enforcing a real presidential sub? Where thoughtful discussion us allowed.
jimmahdean ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:41:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I put primary in quotes for a reason.
dud-a-chum ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:59:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I mean on one hand you have terrible press because youโre allowing a community of white trash lower and middle class young men to be turned into racist murdering extremists. On the other youโll have press talking about how you banned a group of white trash lower and middle class young men who were being turned into racist murdering extremists.
Yeah. Theyโre both totally equal.
OnCompanyTime ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:45:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think the reasonable approach from Reddit would be to not ban the Donald, but to enforce the site wide rules regarding hate speech and brigading. If they were to do that I might be more sympathetic to their position. As it is, though, TD is put on a pedestal and the users are not held to the standards to which the rest of the Reddit community adheres. The immunity TD is given allows them to push the envelope of radicalism that is eroding the national dialogue. They're a flagship of toxic political propaganda and Reddit is not only complicit, they're actually enabling them through inaction.
Moruitelda ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:01:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Which, if applied to T_D, would result in it being banned...?
magistrate101 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:19:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Nah, just apply it to individual users. Leave t_d as a ghost town.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:59:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Spez knows he can't ban T_D without a huge shitstorm, so they're doing everything they can to keep it around but still try to lure advertisers.
dimmidice ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:38:47 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Was his brother, they're not on speaking terms and Joshua Kushner's a democrat.
gtautumn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:10:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Let's not mince words here, they knowingly and purposefully take a revenue hit in order to enable them.
non-troll_account ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:33:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Hold on. Why is everyone suddenly in favor of Reddit being overcome by ads?
I thought we wanted reddit to stay free from invasive advertising.
T_D keeps advertisers away. You remove T_D, and you suddenly start getting more /r/hailcorporate ads, and silently placed ads all over the place.
It sounds to me like T_D's presence keeping advertisers away is a GOOD THING for us users. .
KneeDeepInTheDead ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:46:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
wtf Reddit wants to make as much money as possible? wtf!? are they for real? who would ever see this coming
GriffonsChainsaw ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:27:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yup. There are several subreddits that are on this list, which means they know fully well they're hosting disgusting content that would get advertisers to pull ads. It's a ploy to keep taking advertiser money but prevent people from being able to send screenshots of racist and sexist shit next to ads, something they've made explicitly clear they don't want people doing.
caninehere ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:37:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The company that owns Condรฉ Nast - which is reddit's parent company - is run by a family who have been connected with and supported Trump in the past. One of the patriarchs, in fact, encouraged Trump to write "Art of the Deal".
temotodochi ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 14:28:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Do you really want to spill td users everywhere by banning the one place they can be monitored in? Ban the sub and 100 will replace it with little to no moderation whatsoever with huge uproar by a extreme and loud crowd.
This is a total lose-lose for reddit. Best they can do is to try containing them.
Moruitelda ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:01:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well, that's not what happened when they banned coontown, fatpeoplehate, etc.
temotodochi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:17:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Dispersing works in crowd control situations for a short time, it does not however resolve the underlying problem of xenophobic bigots existing.
Moruitelda ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:17:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Nope, but if they don't have a platform, their xenophobia and bigotry has a harder time spreading.
temotodochi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:27:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I dont believe that for a second. They are not something we could just get rid of or hide under the carpet. They are there and they must be studied more. Containing them for easy observation is one of the best methods to help dilute the problem in the future.
kataskopo ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:37:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That is incorrect, at least it did not happen when they've banned all other hateful subs. And there's one research paper that concludes that they do stop people from radicalizing.
Dlrlcktd ยท 83 points ยท Posted at 14:30:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You also forgot something from the Admin user redditads
https://www.reddit.com/r/stopadvertising/comments/85vdwo/groundrules_for_this_community/
(Not from this post specifically, the admin submitted that warning to the sub 5 days ago)
Dong_World_Order ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 15:32:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah screenshots are meaningless and hard to verify with the way the aggregation works. You could craft a screenshot with all the vile racist or sexual stuff you want with X advertiser and they'd have no way to verify the page actually displayed it the way you've shown.
HBlight ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:06:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
On top of that, they wont know what to look for, a screenshot of a post that has 5 upvotes after 13 hours that proclaims the superiority of catapults or a post of the same but only posted 3 minutes ago by the person taking the screenshot. Might be easy for someone not reddit-savvy to miss those details if they are even included in the screenshot at all.
ekdaemon ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 00:43:37 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You sure about that?
I'm certain if I wanted to I could log back to the server exactly what things were displayed and how on a page.
meguin ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 15:57:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I find it telling that redditads mentions "consistent use" but only came up with one link.
Dlrlcktd ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:09:09 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I find it telling that multiple mods try to talk to the admin on the thread (knowing that reddit isnโt going to publicly argue with them) instead of doing it in private. Iโm not a mod or anything but I assume messaging the admins is probably how you resolve the issue.
meguin ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:30:57 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, the reddit admin also made a public post instead of messaging the mods. I'm not ready to believe that either side is operating completely truthfully.
Dlrlcktd ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:23:23 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Thatโs very true, and I agree, both sides seem a little petty tbh
rexington_ ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 21:13:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"You have no evidence!"
"Here, have some evidence."
"Psh, only one screnshot?"
Buffalo__Buffalo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:11:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
One time I went to the gym. I'm a consistent gym-goer.
Dlrlcktd ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:04:06 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
โI go to then gym consistently, I was there todayโ
draw_it_now ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:51:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I love that /r/OnionHate has for some reason added their voice
PostFailureSocialism ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:45:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Do you really think someone would do that? Go in the internet and spread lies?
MrKoontar ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 17:02:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
to get the sub shut down? why not
Dlrlcktd ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:05:42 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Ah of course, letโs forget all about morality while claiming to defend it
MrKoontar ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:31:11 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What I meant was that people from outside of the sub could easily come in and spread the misinformation now in the hopes of getting the sub shut down , seeing as to how they've already been given a warning
Dlrlcktd ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:24:31 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Oh I thought you meant to get td shut down, like โlying is ok if itโs to shut down tdโ
aYearOfPrompts ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:57:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So, theyโre confirming that the rest of us are subsidizing the hate subs with our regular viewing while those guys get a free ride? How the hell do they think thatโs an acceptable position?
Here is a hint, Reddit admins. If you have to hide a subreddit from your advertisers maybe thatโs a sign you have a problem?
psiphre ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:56:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
so basically in order to not see ads, i just need to subscribe to /r/the_donald
FancyASlurpie ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:26:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So a chrome extension that subscribed but auto hides d_t posts would force Reddit to act...like adblock but Reddit specific and by allowing redit to change their approach should make more of a difference than just blocking ads on reddit
psiphre ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:26:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
or you could just filter the subreddit with RES
FancyASlurpie ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:32:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But does that actually result in no ads?
trytoholdon ยท 169 points ยท Posted at 14:36:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If theyโre not doing things that are illegal, such as inciting violence, why is everyone so eager to see their speech censored? I never visit T_D, so they have no effect on me. In a free and open society there are all kinds of terrible opinions expressed; and terrible people should remain free to express them. Just because some ideas are abhorrent doesnโt mean we should try to curtail free expression.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 18:34:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
beetnemesis ยท 105 points ยท Posted at 14:42:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I can't speak for everyone. My main thing is that I can compare reddit before and after t_d. Before t_d, whatever, there were awful people around, but kind of in the background, or just kind of mildly shitty.
I mean, when t_d started, it was treated as a joke. It was basically 4chan- a place where shitty people masturbated each other and ironic people slummed.
Then it got huge, and increasingly toxic. It became this weird concentrator, an echo chamber where the more you engaged with it, the worse it (and you got).
This isn't unique to t_d, echo chambers in general do this. What makes t_d worse is the level of extremes it reaches, the complete lack of self-awareness or decency, and just the level of... energy, I suppose. It's like a subreddit that got infected with rabies.
trytoholdon ยท 167 points ยท Posted at 14:50:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I get that. But my question is still, so what? People are offended. And? Does anything posted there cause Redditors physical harm? No one has to visit T_D. In fact, Reddit allows users to filter subs so they never see that content. But just because some users find it abhorrent, thatโs enough of a reason to want it censored? I donโt understand the jump from โI donโt like that contentโ to โThat content should be forbidden.โ To me, this is a worrying trend in society that rather than accepting that free speech inevitably comes with offensive speech, people now want those in power - be they governments or corporations - to decide what people can say so that everyone can go through life never being offended.
Kektus ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:51:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Preach it from the goddamn mountaintops, please. We need more people to look at this situation in the way that you do. I hate their guts but I do not wish them silenced. I also hate the people throwing around the word "Nazi" as if it has any meaning left with all the times it's been misused. Imo, T_D is the Reddit version of 4chan's /pol/. There's only so much nonsense I can take.
jumpinthedog ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:46:04 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That would be because /pol/ created them, it also created the kekistan meme as a joke(that's why the kekistan flag is a green kriegsmarine flag with clover leaves) but "normies" took it way too seriously and now we have the cringefests that they are today. It's funny because even /pol/ hares on T_D.
foresttravestys ยท 40 points ยท Posted at 15:09:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
you're conveniently forgetting that the_dumbass heavily promoted a rally where a woman was murdered by one of their subscribers or that a popular the_dumbass poster killed his own father because he thought they were "leftists".
Dong_World_Order ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 15:30:47 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair I doubt The_Donald is the first or last sub to influence someone in the midst of a mental health crisis.
ThatCakeIsDone ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:59:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The entire sub is a mental health crisis.
Hohenheim_of_Shadow ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:12:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Half the anger over td not being banned is the incosistent of re. For a non-political example, at least one hentai sub focused on the petite has been banned because they were supposably loli based, not illegal in the US unlike say murder. Hell Reddit mods let literal drug trading subreddit stay up.
whats-your-plan-man ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:24:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And because of their bot situation, posts that call for this which would get downvote blasted to oblivion and reported in other subs get hyperinflated "to the top" which gives users there the false impression that there are hundreds, and maybe thousands of people that support the idea of using violence before mods get wind of it and delete the post.
CloneTK42O ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:24:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It was allowed to be promoted it for like a week, a little bit. Then when they had more information about who was putting it on and who would be there that was reversed and for like 2 weeks they were warning people not to go.
The absolute extreme on the donald are people who want the law to be followed and mass deportations to happen. They are a minority. A lot more of us have an understanding of freedom and violence and we are not gonna let anyone even put in place the infrastructure to forcibly detain and move millions of people.
You people just make shit up about a Domreddit you don't frequent and then will argue your fantasies with people who do.
langis_on ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 19:30:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Do you have a source for your claims? Because I saw that the post was stickied leading up to the rally.
CloneTK42O ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 01:08:48 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
no.. I saw that the post wasn't stickied after a week and numerous posts warning about Kessler and a set up. Can you source your claims?
langis_on ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:16:14 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Apparently It wasn't stickied the whole time (/r/the_Donald uses the sticky system to send posts to the top very quickly so they frequently change).
However, many of the comments were still there up until the rally. The mods definitely didn't tell people not to attend that rally though.
beetnemesis ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 14:58:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think that it's easy to talk about the slippery slope.
The difference here, I think, is that t_d isn't just "some political subreddit." There are plenty of right-wing subs on reddit. I've been on plenty of them, and while there are often views that I strongly disagree with there, t_d is the only subreddit that makes me think of the word "frothing."
TheThirstyMayor ยท 63 points ยท Posted at 16:34:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This exchange is poignant. OP says the impulse to prohibit speech purely because it's distasteful is a worrying trend with a terrible historical pedigree. You reply with basically "yeah, but I really don't like it" as if it's a counter argument. You completely miss the point.
To reiterate op: so what? You don't like t_d. I dislike it too. Just block the sub and move on.
beetnemesis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:41:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
To be honest, I've responded so many times on this thread that I've definitely lost track of what I said to whom. I try to keep each post self-contained, but... shrug.
Anyway, at some point I said something along the lines of "Those points above were some logical arguments against it, here are my personal thoughts."
Which, like you said, basically boil down to "I really don't like it." Although I also said that there was a qualitative difference- T_D is not like other subs. I used "frothing" on purpose, it honestly is the only sub that seems like it has rabies.
But yeah, "I don't like it" and "It's weirdly different, right? Like, it's like meeting a guy on the bus who has a really intense look in his eyes, and his head movement is just slightly off" are not good reasons to ban a sub on its own.
For what it's worth, I do honestly think that it is destructive- both to its subscribers and to the general world at large. It makes people worse versions of themselves, and it makes the world a more toxic place.
TheThirstyMayor ยท 35 points ยท Posted at 17:04:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What specific set of criteria, in your view, justify the banning of t_d but don't also necessitate the same treatment for other somewhat edgy, non-mainstream political subreddits (r/FULLCOMMUNISM, r/socialism, r/anarchism, etc.). Those subs have called for violence. They are almost certainly 'frothy' (whatever that means).
Your comment implies that I mis-represented your views, but I genuinely don't understand that perspective. Your comment is literally a statement of personal taste. OP's point is the personal taste is irrelevant. So your comment is not responsive to his argument. Where am I misrepresenting you? If you do have a nuanced position on this, I'd love to hear it. For now though, it seems like you just don't like r/the_donald, and you want it gone.
beetnemesis ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 17:12:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I honestly don't have one. I can say that none of the sites you mentioned seem to have the reach, numbers, or simple toxicity of t_d.
I'm not a reddit lawyer, trying to make an airtight case- others seem to have laundry lists of times t_d has broken site rules. I am just saying that I think everyone will be better off when it's gone.
TheThirstyMayor ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 17:20:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I get that, and for the record - I definitely understand why its so disliked. I'm not a fan either.
But can you at least acknowledge that others may take issue with you deciding what is and isn't acceptable? That others may not see things as you do? You noted that you believe t_d makes people worse versions of themselves, but that judgement is made through your own set of political and cultural biases. No one is truly neutral, including you.
As for the rule-breaking, I believe reddit's stance is that as long as mod teams work to address such behavior, the sub itself will not be banned. Additionally, subs such as r/anarchism have also broken many site-wide rules - are you saying r/anarchism should be banned? Again, if you aren't ready to enforce rules equally in all cases, there isn't much point in having them in the first place.
beetnemesis ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:26:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Oh yeah of course. Obviously people can disagree. People will be pissed off if reddit deletes the sub for sure, and it won't really be that different a reason in the end.
chribstera ยท 40 points ยท Posted at 17:09:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
As someone who is fairly center, I challenge you to try and go read reddit pretending you arenโt left wing and see how toxic it is if you donโt agree with the mindset. Iโve mentioned this before, but I was on the deep sea creatures sub (facts and tidbits about animals living deep in the ocean) and all of a sudden a thread making fun of and insulting right wingers (not even necessarily DT supporters). I responded asking why we have to see politics and insults on every sub, not being able to escape it, and was downvoted to hell.
Iโm not surprised DT sub is what it is. There is not an open dialogue or respect for anybody against the beehive on reddit, and those people will be pushed further and further away, skewing views further and finding their own niche sub where they wonโt be bombarded. Generally speaking, reddit is only civil if you already find yourself left wing.
Kanarkly ยท -16 points ยท Posted at 17:42:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Wanting to treat gay people as equals is not the same as not wanting to treat gay people equally. Sorry, but they arenโt moral equivalents.
Edit: Downvoted for pointing out theyโre not moral equivalents?
chribstera ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:59:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I agree, but I donโt understand why thatโs your response to me. Where did I say anything about any of that?
[deleted] ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 17:44:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
TheThirstyMayor ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 17:48:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You are correct. Reddit is a private company that can do whatever it wants with the data on its servers.
But that doesn't mean people can't have a perspective on the ruleset used to govern their online communities. I'm not sure where in my comment you got the impression that I thought this was a first amendment issue.
[deleted] ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 18:04:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
TheThirstyMayor ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 18:26:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I see this stupid fucking point brought up everyday, which is amazing because it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the first amendment.
There is a difference between free speech as an abstract idea and the first amendment. The First Amendment provides for legal recourse against public entities that restrict speech. Has anyone in the thread called for reddit to be punished by the federal government for its stance on speech? No?
That means that no one is making this a First Amendment issue, by definition.
I can however express that the underlying ideal of freedom of speech - that sunshine is the best disinfectant, rules based on standards of decency or offensiveness are inherently corruptable and inneffective, that strong arguments beat weak arguments - are valid, without invoking the First Amendment.
What do you people not get about this?
[deleted] ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 18:30:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
TheThirstyMayor ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:53:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"Free and open society" is an abstract expression of values. It is not an invocation of any specific amendment, let alone the 1st. I'm not sure what else to tell you. You're pointing at the sky and yelling that its red.
If you disagree, than I have some funny questions for you about why don't seem to think the other amendments are necessary for that 'free and open society.' Like, is the 13th necessary?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:40:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
TheThirstyMayor ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:54:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Sure. When someone says that legal action should be brought against a website for deciding what content they host, that is certainly dumb.
No one is saying that here. So why are you commenting? What is your point?
EDIT: Also, thats a pretty graceless way to acknowledge that you were wrong.
NULL_CHAR ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 03:37:00 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
There are numerous left winged subs that routinely call for violence and murder against right winged individuals. A few of them actually had to have admins step in and warn them that if they continued, they were literally going to be shut down. These subreddits routinely hit /r/all and include subs like /r/FULLCOMMUNISM and /r/latestagecapitalism
Yet for some fucking reason. T_D is the problem!? The worst the admins had to do for them was warn them against using sticky algorithms to rocket to the top of /r/all.
Point is, I don't think reddit should ban any of them, (unless of course, they actually are preaching messages of violence and it isn't just a few random people in the comments who aren't even upvoted), we have tons of extremists here on reddit and each of them thinks the other shouldn't be allowed to talk.
kilo4fun ยท 54 points ยท Posted at 15:02:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think we should be careful of what we wish for. Look at the overreaching censorship going on with YouTube.
jakesboy2 ยท 59 points ยท Posted at 15:20:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Theyโre only okay with it because the views being censored are opposing views to theirs.
pi_over_3 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:07:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The minute TD is gone, your crowd will onto getting the next largest right leaning sub banned.
No is fooled by these comments.
Legofan970 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:53:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
T_D brought a lot of attention to Charlottesville, where somebody died.
I think people need to realize that the Internet is part of real life. Reddit should not host a toxic echo chamber that radicalizes Americans.
STLReddit ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:01:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's hilarious your post is gilded and upvoted 120 times in a bestof thread about another thread that refutes everything you just said.
Actually it's sad and just shows how mind numbingly stupid some of you are.
Tyler11223344 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 00:22:30 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How does the /r/all behavior changing, and attempting to persuade advertisers to pull out from Reddit relate to his comment? (That's not a leading question, I'm genuinely asking in case I missed something)
STLReddit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:33:20 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know how you'd miss it of you read the thread this is linked to.
AntiMage_II ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:34:00 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Even better, the filter was created in response to the complaints about T_D appearing on the front page so frequently. Reddit was actively improved inadvertently because of T_D and yet people still continue to complain in spite of the filter feature being added so they can avoid the content they dislike.
OverlordQuasar ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:20:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Threats and calls for violence, which are regular on t_d and, in at least a couple of cases, needed by members, are not part of free speech. Their rights end where others' begin, and people's rights to be safe from violence and not be harassed (look at what they say about the Parkland victims, for an easy example) surpass their rights to free speech.
There is a pretty easy line here, avoiding a slippery slope fallacy. When a group has a significant number calling for violence without receiving widespread condemnation (they often have hundreds or more upvotes, and the mods take days to remove them, rather than hours like for things that go against the echo chamber), especially when there are cases in which individuals have actually heeded those calls (such as the man who murdered his father for being a liberal), it needs to stop. You're using an argument that assumes that all speech is inherently equally right and protected, but speech is very real and has real consequences, and when those consequences are violence, it's pretty clear cut.
Do you disagree with Twitter shutting down ISIS recruiting accounts? Like t_d, they are seeking to radicalize individuals to violence. They have had more cases in which they have succeeded, and are backed by a more unified organization, but they share similar purposes and methods. And, in many cases (far right terrorism has always been a bigger issue in the US than Islamic terrorism, except for a single series of events. The Parkland shooter, while not confirmed to be a poster, very much fits the normal profile of a t_d user, as well as cases like have been mentioned previously which were confirmed t_d posters), have led to similar results.
crowsturnoff ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:19:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What you're saying makes sense, but you could say that about any subreddit that has been scrutinized and removed. T_D has gotten away with a lot more than other subreddits.
We need to be careful calling it "censorship," because that's specifically referring to the government disallowing certain speech, whereas reddit is a private company.
Reddit should follow their own rules, rules they've applied to many other subreddits in the past, and get rid of T_D.
JimmyDeSanta420 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 20:22:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
lol no
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/censorship
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/censorship
AttackPug ยท -13 points ยท Posted at 15:50:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
We've been over this before, but we'll go ahead and hit it again.
The First Amendment protects you from censorship by the government and only by the government. This is not an oversight. Any law which would provide freedom from censorship from the government but also in any other privately owned space where many gather starts trampling on the rights of others.
Under such a law the argument could be made that your racist uncle has the right to speak his racist mind because it's the family reunion and X amount of people are there.
The same logic applies when you start expecting the majority of Redditors, who are here for jovial conversation, interesting information like the replies in AskScience, and other enriching content, to put up with whoever and whatever wants to use the platform however they see fit. This is unfair.
If you think things are restrictive here, you should see Twitch, where mods will ban you in real time for using too many emotes, and I don't mean Pepe, I mean cute little G-rated ones. Some people just don't like them. The point being that you already have more leeway here than you would get in nearly any public space.
At best, T_D is tiresome and boorish, the loudmouth asshole at the party who is bringing down the entire vibe. At worst, it's an incubator for Nazis, and we have reason to believe that this site has been specifically chosen by literal Nazis - well funded ones - as a recruiting ground, what with all its disaffected young men ripe for the brainwashing.
That's not what most of the people here want to be associated with. If I don't want my racist uncle spouting his nonsense in my house, I should have the right to ask him to leave. The truth is that he should never have held those views in the first place, and his comfort is not my problem, nor should it be.
As always with your tiresome sort, you think that you have some right to offend, or that others have some odd obligation to put up with whatever nonsense spills from your mouth. We do not. This is neither a worrisome, or a new trend.
The truth is that whatever political ideas you have that are worthy of debate have already been advanced one hundred times over. You have said your peice, nobody is obligated to listen to it forever.
More than anything else though, ignoring places like T_D and all the other fucked up subreddits does no good, because while you are happily looking at cat pictures, it will be those subs that find their way onto the news, thus making you guilty by association. Fuck all that. We already have a 4Chan. We don't need another.
Ultimately though, your argument is trash because you expect others to expend energy not being offended no matter how much offensive noise comes their way. But it never crosses your mind that the offensive speaker should expend their own energy being less irksome. They carry all the responsibility of a baby, while the rest of us are expected to just put up with it while they shriek.
Fuck all that.
Take your right wing noise elsewhere. Nobody else is obligated to live on your terms.
Tyler11223344 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 00:25:30 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Who mentioned the first amendment?
a_cup_of_tee ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:46:35 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Literally nobody mentioned the first amendment in the posts you are responding to. I agree that t_d is cancer but this kind of attack post just makes other people who share your more reasonable opinions look bad. Please stop, for all our sakes.
Syrdon ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 17:12:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit doesn't allow you to filter a subreddit's members' impact on the discussion in other subreddit. If t_ders stayed in t_d, it wouldn't be a problem. But they don't, so it is. Reddit as a whole is a moderated forum, it needs some additional moderation.
Cougah ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:39:20 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What about it being an influential home for impressionable people? I.e. people inciting violence such as the Charlottesville rally or school shootings. Their hatred grows there.
ninelives1 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 22:18:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Because it's a breeding ground for radicalism that endorses and promotes violence. No different than an ISIS recruitment page. If not a little less extreme. But same idea.
5k3k73k ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 16:57:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No one has to visit Nazi Germany but sometimes Nazi Germany visits you.
Marsdreamer ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 20:59:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There is a big difference from "I don't like that content" and "I don't want that content to be allowed" with the donald though.
I don't like the content for a vast majority of subs on this website, but those subs don't simultanously call for genocide, incite violence, make death threats, brigade other subreddits, violate ToS by vote manipulation, and the dozen of other hateful, vile, and disgusting bullshit that goes on in that sub.
Your argument here, to continue with the analogy is like saying that because Target has an Arts and Crafts aisle that you don't particularly like, why can't it have a Nazi and KKK aisle that other people just "don't particularly like."
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:34:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
here's the thing. you're basically tagging people coming from a certain political angle as "awful people". can't you just admit that you get upset when Reddit isn't 100% liberal and people don't just blindly agree with you all the time?
beetnemesis ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:41:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, because I have not experienced anything like T_D in other conservative forums and subreddits.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:43:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
care to elaborate?
beetnemesis ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 16:47:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Not really. I've posted elsewhere in this thread. I think that t_D has a certain angry energy and basic lack of decency that puts it on another level
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:49:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
have you ever actually visited t_d?
Dong_World_Order ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:28:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The_Donald was very much tongue in cheek humor when it started and to be honest there is still a LOT of that still going on.
oldneckbeard ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 19:48:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
no, it may have been before, but it's all serious now. because the tongue-in-cheek stuff is more like "maybe the holocaust victims deserved it because they were all crisis actors"
Dong_World_Order ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:20:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Nah, I'm not talking about the hateful racist stuff. But the over-the-top memes and cheerleading are still largely humor. It can be hard to explain if you're not familiar with shitposting on 4chan but it is all just an extension of that.
Youarewng ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:19:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You remember incorrectly. Fatpeoplehate and coontoown preceded them by years.
Look.at srs or cb from 5 yeara ago
You justdont like it because its your team, of people really cared they would complain about late stage capitalism giving instructions on making napalm and encouraging people to throw them at cops
T3hSwagman ยท 118 points ยท Posted at 14:59:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Illegal? No not necessarily. But they do regularly call for acts of violence which are always given a pass until somebody shines a spotlight on it.
The main issue is per this sites own rules T_D should have been shut down long ago. Smaller subs got axed for similar behavoir. T_D gets to violate rules constantly and gets a pass.
sajoser17 ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 19:08:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What about when liberals were going around shouting โpunch naziโsโ wouldnโt that be a call for violence?
oldneckbeard ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 19:47:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
yes yes... whatabout whatabout whatabout, indeed.
riemannszeros ยท 48 points ยท Posted at 15:38:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Or until there actually is violence.
At least two murders, that we know of, can be directly attributed to users of or events promoted by that subreddit.
To be honest Reddit is insanely lucky we donโt get more public information about the internet habits of many of these recent white supremacism murders.
Deerscicle ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 17:11:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Source for that crazy claim?
[deleted] ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 17:46:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
The Unite The Right rally that resulted in Heather Hayer getting mudered by a nazi, and the NEET "Seattle4Truth" (who was originally part of Gamergate) who murdered his dad.
And if you think t_d is bad, you should see the Discord. The gloves come off there.
EDIT: The guy who responded to me that Heather died of a heart attack because she was overweight, and being hit by a speeding vehicle was completely coincidental. This is the quality of discourse we see from the far right.
[deleted] ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 18:18:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
IBeBoots ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 18:34:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You canโt deny that the neo-nazi drove into a crowd of people so instead you deny that he killed one of them?
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:58:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Holy shit the denial of reality is strong with you people. She died because one of your own fuckheads ran her down with a car.
reddit4getit ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 19:41:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Which reddit users are directly responsible for murders? And how did you come to that conclusion?
riemannszeros ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 19:48:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
User: Seattle4Truth.
And because he murdered his parents while screaming they were โleftist pedophilesโ or some other deranged shit spread on Reddit.
AccountNumberB ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:59:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I just polled Seattle4Truth's comment history. Pehaps I missed it. Could you link us?
reddit4getit ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 20:16:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Is that what was determined in court?
ww2colorizations ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:22:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But March against trump doesnโt? Lmfao the hypocrisy
formerfatboys ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:19:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They don't though. That's why they haven't been shut down.
At various times they get content that's bad and it's generally moderated very quickly. Their mods had to get really involved and probably remove stuff faster than a lot of other subs that get offensive topics.
/r/news and /r/politics, the Sanders sub, several of the anti-Trump subs all engage in similar shit.
The smarter move would be to wall off politics. Or, even smarter say to advertisers that Reddit became the most popular and important site for content on the internet by altering user generated content and broad free speech.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 15:41:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is literally how all of fucking Reddit works my dude, you can post something, and until it's seen by a mod or reported enough, it stays up. There are tons of other subs that subtly hint at violence, personally I've seen more on left leaning subs granted there are more of them in general, what matters is that the mods delete the blatantly racist/violent ones.
Spez has said the mod team on T_D does a good job at that, which is one of the reasons they aren't banned, anyone can find mean comments with 0 to -1 karma and screenshot them, they aren't indicative of anything.
c3p-bro ยท 41 points ยท Posted at 16:11:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They don't do a good job. Calls for violence/lynching/murder will stay up for MONTHS then disappear in 2 minutes after AgainstHateSubs calls attention to it. Even if it's already been reported.
Yet anything even a tiny bit critical of Trump is removed in <5 minutes. The idea that they're doing a good job moderating is not true.
ww2colorizations ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:24:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Same on march against trump. Iโm not even a trump supporter but that sub is just as pathetic
c3p-bro ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:34:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
-not a trump supporter -posts in sjwhate
low effort. moving on.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 19:04:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You....have to be a Trump supporter to hate SJWs? What?
What happened to all of the liberals that secretly hate these people too, and thinks they're just a loud minority that proposes stupid ideals?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:27:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 19:50:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Why? It's generally just a label for people that take identity politics too far, and use sociology to, rather than understand the world, tell people how they should act and perceive it as well.
SJW's exist, and they're fucking crazy, if you don't want to acknowledge that, and you genuinely think every branch of Feminism is the same, you're probably a radical...or at least someone that heavily believes the ends justify the means.
Seriously, if you think social justice is good, or has merit, argue for the best fucking parts of it, don't just lump it into one thing and consider it all morally right, there are parts of it that are very fucked up.
[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 19:55:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
azaza34 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:15:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Why would you assume he's a trump supporter tho.
ww2colorizations ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:34:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Iโm not....nor did I vote for trump. And I think sjwhate is hilarious. Sjws are fucking crazy. You post on more hate subs than the single one that I lurk on! Lmao
sweetwattah ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 16:13:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I'm gonna call bull on that. More than left leaning subs?
https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstHateSubreddits/comments/878ct3/the_donald_and_ben_garrison_team_up_to_attack/
https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstHateSubreddits/comments/851rgd/i_compiled_a_list_showcasing_the_donalds_50_worst/
You can actually just go visit the linked subreddit, too many links to use as proof.
It's pretty laughable what you say.
ExaltB2 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:07:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's true, /u/emerica778 is right. I've seen posts and reported them for threats of Assassination towards Trump and his supporters. These are in default subs since I haven't really added or deleted any since I started my account.
One user had Death_to_trump as a name and I called them out for it. They're banned now but seriously it's in politics and other default subs all the time. No one seems to care but I still report them and report at least one a day.
ziggl ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:29:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
That's cool, still doesn't do anything to prove a point either way.
Someone made a concrete claim, you can't just anecdote your way through it, you needs stats or at least some data. That guy gave data -- still nothing conclusive, but it's more than you're giving here.
EDIT: Oh, don't you dare downvote comments that just ask for better info in a discussion.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:47:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:48:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How far to the right do you have to be to think liberals are leftists?
ziggl ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:30:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
uhh... I've identified as a "liberal" for the most part for my whole life. Aren't those the same thing?
Regardless of your answer, this is a great example of why identity politics and overuse of labels is bad.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:42:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Nope. Liberals are on a completely different ideological level than leftists. It's like mixing up communists and fascists.
ziggl ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:51:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Ok well you should tell America that.
ww2colorizations ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:29:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well they both normally circlejerk together and share the same social outlooks. Kinda like how all conservatives or trump voters are immediately called racist Nazis and must be from the alt right. Try being in the middle...itโs not easy
oldneckbeard ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:47:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's not easy because "the middle" is also toxic. "the middle" is somewhere between "deport all immigrants" and "lets war with north korea for fun"
ww2colorizations ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:51:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Nah, not really. While we have our toxic people too, most of us just look at things realistically and arenโt afraid to form our own opinions after reading arguments/materials from both sides of a certain subject. If you think you believe every single thing that a certain political side preaches, then youโre either super rare or straight up lying to yourself and others. Itโs ok to have opinions that donโt jive perfectly with your political group
T3hSwagman ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:53:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs not though. Most subs self regulate, if it wasnโt for outside influence those calls to violence would remain untouched. People constantly find examples from several weeks ago of upvoted comments saying shit like, kill all liberals. Normally level headed people in the community go, thatโs fucked up, reported. T_D is missing that last critical step.
Fleinherjer ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:13:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Users on reddit have no obligation to report anything, banning a sub for that is stupid.
T3hSwagman ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:54:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The point of shutting down the other subs was calls to violence. If you want to remain as an operational sub then it absolutely is your obligation to report these things. That was why a slew of subs got banned a while ago.
Of course what you are saying is true for T_D. They are above that rule for whatever reason.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:08:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So you're saying, if T_D users ago around, and make a bunch of lists of shit that's unreported, they should be able to get left leaning subreddits banned as well?
That's dumb, and falls on no fault of the mods, I've seen several pinned threads telling people to report those that make comments inciting violence, what else do you want them to do? Chances are they'll comply, much like they've complied with everything else spez has asked them to do.
Fleinherjer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:02:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Which subs are you taling about, specifically?
T3hSwagman ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:14:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Coontown was one of them. There were several others I canโt remember the names of.
Fleinherjer ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:33:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Reading the post on the subject, it says
The way that's written sounds like the mods on the subs would outright ignore reports even if the post broke the rules.
IF reddit bans subs even though the mods remove prohibited content, I hope they enjoy the bill Congress approved last week.
cadayrn ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:23:47 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Call for violence? You freaking liar. I am regular on the Donald and have never seen this.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:52:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The OP names names in a post above yours.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:21:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
When specifically do they call for acts of violence. Do you have any evidence of that? Can you find me hate speech from today on that sub?
Cuthbert12Allgood ยท -13 points ยท Posted at 15:40:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Can leftists do anything except lie? Show me on the page, RIGHT NOW, where there is a serious call for violence. No, not some screenshot where a leftist deliberately posted something bad trying to get the sub banned before the moderators could delete it, RIGHT NOW.
There is no violence there. There is no hatred there. Maybe you're just ignorant and just repeating what you've been told, but there are people who lie and lie and lie because they hate that people are resisting against leftist politics.
They can keep lying, but we will continue to win. And eventually most of you will realize just how much you're being lied to every day. Wake up.
T3hSwagman ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:30:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You can just go check /r/againsthatesubreddits. They have many examples listed there.
Cuthbert12Allgood ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 16:57:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And, as usual, you can't find an example RIGHT NOW. What does that tell you? Wake up and think for yourself.
There are two things get listed. 1) Opinions that aren't hate, but fascists use that word to shut down free speech, or 2) People deliberately post shit and take a screenshot before it can be deleted.
T3hSwagman ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:41:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Why does something only from today count? Theyโve been given countless chances that other subs never got.
Cuthbert12Allgood ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:05:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Read #2 above. That you can't find something RIGHT NOW proves that, if it occurs, it's deleted promptly once the moderators get the report.
You want to see hate? Go read /r/politics, which is loaded with INSANE, DERANGED levels of hate. Just constant, constant hatred. But leftists don't complain about that, and the moderators sure the hell don't clean it up.
T3hSwagman ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:13:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Iโve seen hate but not as much calls to violence. And I have indeed seen that on /r/politics but they are always in the negatives. Even on your โradical leftyโ sub they downvote someone advocating violence against the right.
I vividly remember a post on T_D saying to โget the ropeโ in regards to voting lefties out of office. The top comment was โhang them highโ. One sub is fine with violence the other doesnโt promote it.
shesthatkindagirl ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:02:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/857vx1/wow_mccabe_just_said_he_pressured_rosenstein_to/dvvesht
Since you ignored it the first time
InvaderChin ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:03:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Whoa, stop moving the goalposts so quickly. You're going to ruin the field if you keep that up.
covor ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:38:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Can you give an example on how it violated the rules recently?
T3hSwagman ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:42:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Why recently? These rules have been around for months. What makes today the red letter day for rules violations?
covor ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:50:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Did I say today? No, I didn't. Show me one example in the last month. If you claim that t_d violates rules constantly, you'd have to find violations every day or at least every week, yes?
Primesghost ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:56:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Nobody is trying to suppress anybody's free speech; posters on T_D are perfectly within their rights to post anything they wish, wherever they are allowed on the Internet and Reddit, as a company, is perfectly within their rights to provide the posters of T_D a space to voice these things.
And I am also free to feel about the things that are said over at T_D any way I wish, and I might just voice my own opinion that I am unwilling to do business with any companies that I believe are enabling those posters by funding Reddit.
See? We're all just exercising our right to free speech.
You know what? You should get in on it too! You should start emailing companies that are advertising on Reddit and let them know that if they pull their advertising you might stop using their products, or maybe you can contact companies that you think would want to be associated with things posted at T_D and try to get them to advertise on Reddit.
Killchrono ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 16:14:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Nono, you don't get it, you're allowed to say things, but heaven forbid you actually act upon them!
T_D don't actually want to perform racist acts, they just want to express their disdain of Muslims and black people! They don't actually want anything bad to happen to them!
It makes perfect sense that they'd say something that goes completely against the grain of what they'd actually do! We have no reason to suspect they'd actually show prejudice towards certain groups of people IRL. After all, they're words, and words can't hurt! It's not like they're meant to express ideas that will give some indication of one's actual beliefs and how they'll act in lieu of them.
So in many ways, you're actually worse because you're going ahead with a threat you're making and planning to impose an inconvenience upon them. So much for liberal tolerance, ammirite?
jakesboy2 ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 15:18:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
For a website full of users so adamant about free speech, itโs clear they do not include the ability to disagree with the mainstream reddit narrative under the umbrella of free speech. Itโs a liberal website and thereโs very little place for conservative views here unfortunately. (Not a trump supporter before the downvotes start lol)
Mynameisaw ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:18:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Trump =/= conservatives.
Republicans =/= conservatives.
There's every place for conservatives here, just not hate mongers.
oldneckbeard ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 19:50:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Trump == Conservative == Republican == Extremist
They're all one and the same.
wrath_of_grunge ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:12:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How do you feel about Palestinian terrorists? Are all Palestinians terrorists?
lmaccaro ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:14:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You mean there is no room for mentioning the mainstream narrative on t_d? You get banned.
SanityInAnarchy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:17:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
T_D is at least partly responsible for some actual violence, though in a way that's hard to prove to the point where you could show them breaking the law. They are also largely responsible for getting Trump elected, which is pretty much an ongoing disaster for the US -- and the US is still a big enough deal on the world stage that this probably does affect you. Sure, if they weren't on Reddit, they'd be somewhere else, but being on Reddit makes recruitment so much easier.
Removing T_D from Reddit would probably have a generally positive impact on political discourse and, y'know, the world in general. And refusing to remove T_D kind of undermines any policy Reddit wants to enforce.
That said, I'm actually pretty ambivalent about this. Many platforms, Reddit included, are starting to clamp down on previously-free-speech policies with increasing amounts of editorial control. It used to be "Hey, we don't control our users, but if you see something actually illegal, send us a DMCA notice and we'll take it down." And people mostly understood this -- nobody wrote angry letters to Geocities demanding that they take stuff down, or at least, nobody took such letters seriously, because we understood that Geocities wasn't producing or editing that content.
Now... it's gotten to the point where gigantic companies that provide core infrastructure to the Internet are finding themselves the target of massive smear campaigns simply because they didn't censor. Remember The Daily Stormer, an actual neo-Nazi site? That wasn't just kicked off Reddit or anything, it was kicked off various DNS providers (Godaddy et al), hosting providers and CDNs (CloudFlare), and so on. Basically, there was a massive campaign to kick them off the Internet entirely, or at least push them back into darknets, and it was pretty successful.
But look at the collateral damage: CloudFlare used to be purely "We'll take it down if you've got a court order, otherwise we're just a host," like every provider was in the 90's and early 00's. As soon as they killed The Daily Stormer, it opened the floodgates to policing at least piracy, and potentially many more things:
Imagine this outrage/censorship machine turned against a liberal cause, as might've happened when social conservatism was still a majority view in this country:
Sure, the idea of anyone being outraged by those subs seems laughable now, because they won -- acceptance of marijuana, gay rights, and atheism is at an all-time high, partly because people in favor of these things were able to organize online in places like Reddit. And no one thought to try to get Reddit to kill those subs, because that's not how Reddit works, because Reddit is a bastion of free speech -- or, at least, it used to be. But for those of us old enough to remember, there was a time when even r/pcgamingmasterrace would've had congressmen trying to get it shut down, making impassioned think-of-the-children speeches -- free speech was about the only reasonable defense, there's no way a company would've actually come out and said "We actually think this content is okay," even if that's what they thought.
So this is a tough one. Kill T_D, and that's yet more ammunition for anyone who wants to censor the Internet, which will one day include censoring topics you care about, especially if the wheel turns and social conservatism gains power over these platforms. But let T_D fester, and it will likely make that wheel turn even faster -- they're already powerful enough that Reddit seems afraid to remove them.
sighclone ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:36:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's weird to me to defend T_D on "free speech" grounds, when they ban users constantly for even the slightest deviations from the hivemind there.
If the community of T_D is allowed to make those decisions for themselves, why can't the broader community of Reddit do the same?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:59:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Dantebrowsing ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:40:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
To make this more true to life I'm imagining the group in the corner to be right-leaning folks, maybe older in general, varying in how much they care about politics and their love for memes.
Ok, NOW it makes sense. I couldn't imagine NeoNazis in a bar (I have yet to physically see one of them, let alone a group).
But it's easy to imagine a group of people who are conservative politically being labelled "NeoNazi" by the left. Happens daily. Gotcha!
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:52:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Dantebrowsing ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:49:09 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You compared the T-D subreddit to a group of NeoNazis at a bar. I said it's more realistic that they're a conservative group who enjoy memes, probably have a few on the white supremecist end of the spectrum. My point is, repeatedly calling ppl Nazis or NeoNazis is silly.
LivefromPhoenix ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:12:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Have you been on reddit at all during the past 2 years? T_D users pollute every sub that even tangentially mentions Trump or politics. They've made the entire site more toxic.
stanhhh ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:18:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Because the self proclaimed righteous people you're asking this question to are actually extremists. They don't tolerate views that opposes them, so they try to silence them.
bollvirtuoso ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:03:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is literally the argument that people trying to save the jailbait subreddit made. Reddit is not the United States of America. It's a corporation. Corporations do not have to enforce or protect the First Amendment -- that's the government's job. The courts', really.
John_E_Canuck ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:10:00 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I hate td as much as anyone else, but it concerns me that this is the approach people are taking. They are actively pressuring reddit to police its content according to what generates ad revenue. It may work well in the case of td but it will probably also result in a bunch of unwanted censorship. It reminds me a lot of the YouTube demonetization scandal, except in this case users are campaigning FOR it...
Wolphoenix ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 15:04:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They regularly call for immigrants and leftists to be killed.
Elkenrod ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:26:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Links to said comments?
There are plenty of posts like that, that are all downvoted to oblivion. Can you find one with over 100 upvotes? I'd really love to see it and spread the word about it.
Wolphoenix ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 15:33:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Like I said, go check AgainstHateSubreddits, TopMindsOfReddit, and other subs, as they regularly collect that information.
Also keep in mind that T_D mods leave posts up until those subs mention them. Good luck.
Elkenrod ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 15:37:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, I want you to link me them.
I want you to back up your claim saying that they do this.
If I go to a group of subreddits that brigade posts, I'm not getting an unbiased look at how these posts are. If this is so common, and such a large problem, then you should have no problem finding any multitude of these comments. Right?
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 15:45:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Do you want us to literally copy and paste verbatim from /r/againsthatesubreddits? Because the research is all there already.
Elkenrod ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:26:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, I want the one who's claiming that a subreddit is making claims for illegals and leftists to be killed to provide proof to back up his claims.
It shouldn't be hard, if T_D is as big of a problem as the rest of reddit believes it is.
ExtraversionOliveOil ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:22:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Dude, if you want an unbiased look at /r/the_Donald, you're never going to get it by asking for a filtered version of it from others, regardless of what those people's political leanings are. Go there yourself, if you're that concerned about getting as unbiased a perspective as possible.
Elkenrod ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:23:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks, you just made it obvious as to what I was trying to do.
I really needed help making that obvious.
ExtraversionOliveOil ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:26:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What were you trying to do? Show that subreddits designed to highlight certain aspects of other subreddits have bias? Of course they do! But that does not mean the content they highlight does not actually exist in those subreddits. You were the one asking for sources, knowing fully well that you already had your mind made up.
Elkenrod ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:28:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I was trying to get him to admit that.
ExtraversionOliveOil ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:36:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And what would that have accomplished? You were the one who was asking for a biased perspective on a subreddit--if that bias makes the perspective worthless, then why were you asking for it in the first place, especially while pretending that this biased perspective would have some capacity to change your mind on the issue?
[deleted] ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 16:03:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
Elkenrod ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:22:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Except that he posted no evidence to back up his claim. He just told me to look elsewhere, because he wouldn't do it.
Are you advocating that we just believe everyone, without any proof to back anything they say up? If this information isn't hard to find, why won't he post it then? If I was making an argument, belittling a group of people who think differently than I do, I would at least want to make sure that I have something to back up my claims, lest I look like the boy who cries wolf.
riemannszeros ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:32:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I gave you the evidence you wanted. You ignored it and continued arguing with these other people.
What is your agenda, I wonder?
Elkenrod ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:36:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Oh? You gave me evidence? Funny, this is the first post that I see here responding to me that has your username.
This couldn't mean that you're using multiple accounts to push your views, could it?
Edit: He was getting automod censored, please don't downvote him if he was providing real evidence.
riemannszeros ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:40:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, it's because the subreddit you want me to link to gets automoderated from this subreddit.
https://imgur.com/a/PVdMF
Give me a sec.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:27:39 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
riemannszeros ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:22:32 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Every attempt was automodded so I put it here
https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstHateSubreddits/comments/87alvc/i_did_some_effort_collecting_a_bunch_of_cases_of/
riemannszeros ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:49:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Here's the comment: https://pastebin.com/3usu9Sx9
I cannot get it to show up in any way or form even after trying to sanitize it.
[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 16:29:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Elkenrod ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:34:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's exactly what you're doing though.
This isn't me "Demanding sources before I will consider a point of view"; this is him saying they call for illegals and leftists to be killed. I can make up any crazy bullshit I want about T_D, just like how I can about any subreddit. But if this shit was actually there, then people should report it to the FBI.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:21:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
farox ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:38:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Look at it from the other side. Imagine the people from /r/politics invading stormfront and when they get kicked out, cry about "freedom of speech". Reddit is not the government and it's perfectly ok that they moderate as they please. It's also ok if the community at large has an opinion about that and pushes into a certain direction.
ww2colorizations ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:01:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit has an agenda and they push it hard. Simple as that. And Iโd agree that the majority of users are more left leaning, as Iโd imagine that a lot are college students. It has been proven that many college students are more swayed towards liberal opinions once they enter college in America. Im personally more liberal than conservative, so i tend to get along with a wide variety of people here. But I donโt like to see subs being censored and free speech being violated. Just not cool
farox ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:37:34 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I am a German, in my 40s and I do see the whole free speech thing slightly different. I do think that everyone should be able to participate in political discourse... With one exception: If your ideology is against the system that provides you with that freedom. If you're anti-democratic you don't get a say and you should not be allowed a breeding ground for your ideology.
And T_D has crossed that line from conservatism (even the one in US I can relate to. Not agree, but I get where it's coming from) to being anti-democratic.
ww2colorizations ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:21:20 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Thatโs a very fair point and not one that Iโm against. I think in theory i like it, but when it comes to laws, it is tricky especially in the US. Iโm not a member of TD, so I will admit I donโt pay attention to everything that gets posted there, but I get the overall point as Iโve seen enough.
So letโs say the law goes into effect.... TD is shut down/censored by law. Now, what gives the right of another sub/community to have basically the same thing, but from the other side of the spectrum? A sub that literally goes against the elected president? Is that not anti-democratic? Isnโt that a little hypocritical? In the past, and even present people have lost their lives for the very same thing.
Iโm in the middle when it comes to politics, so it just doesnโt seem fair to me. I respect peopleโs views, as long as they arenโt physically harming people. (Talk doesnโt count to me in this situation, as there are plenty of examples of threats etc from both sides)
farox ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:30:12 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
We're not talking about laws here though. This is about whether reddit, a private organization, should support neo nazis.
ww2colorizations ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:49:06 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Are they seriously neo Nazis or just shit posters? Because Iโm willing to bet that there are very very few real neo Nazis there. Real Neo Nazis are few and far between in America anymore if we are honest.
As a company reddit has every right to do what they want of course, and they will. And I despise neo Nazis, But I still donโt like the thought of censorship. That means every business will start censoring everything that doesnโt align with their political agenda, which causes just as much Division in society, if not more. You canโt control racism. People will hold opinions regardless if they can post it online or not, sadly. But itโs all pointless to talk about, as reddit has the right to do as they please. I wonโt miss them if that sub is gone, so I honestly donโt care that much.
farox ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:56:51 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Neo Nazi or far right is really just semantics. It's cesspool either way.
That brings me back to my original statement. Can you imagine going on stormfront, pushing ideas of equality etc. and then flipping out because of free speech? I really think we as a community have the right to steer the way this is heading. And supporting far right ideologies just isn't something I think we should be doing.
ww2colorizations ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:04:54 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Oh yeah I fully see your point, and I do agree. But I personally also think that far left ideologies shouldnโt be something thatโs encouraged either. Have a good one man
farox ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:31:43 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Oh yeah, as the great Ferris Bueller said: "Isms, in my opinion, are not good"
You too!
HImainland ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:02:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
We should when their "free expression" makes a place less safe and usable for others. T_D's "free speech" is less important than ensuring no user has to walk into a platform full of harassment and hate aimed towards them.
langis_on ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:27:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
/r/beertrade and /r/gunsales didn't do anything illegal, they were banned.
Hell, /r/fatpeoplehate didn't do anything illegal but they were banned.
Reddit has shown that it has no problem banning subs it disagrees with and banning subs that don't even break reddit rules(until there are brand new rules that reddit makes to ban those subs.)
Yet, the Donald very frequently skirt reddit's rules or just flat out breaks then with impunity.
Either the government has told reddit not to ban them or reddit is okay with the material being posted there, including the calls for violence.
Pure_Reason ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 15:51:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think people like to forget that free speech means โThe government will not interfere with your right to free speech.โ Reddit is not a government entity. If I own a store and you like to come inside and shout racial slurs at my other customers, I will kick you out. Iโm not infringing on your right to go shout racial slurs on the street, just inside the shop I own. Reddit is owned by shareholders but the same idea applies. T_D is full of toxic pieces of shit who would get kicked out of most privately-owned establishments for saying half the shit they post.
TheBarnard ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:49:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The original draw of Reddit is you can find your niche no matter how dark or taboo.
I like going on Reddit and knowing im able to read stuff I find legitimately wrong or fucked up. It's an easy portal into another world. People want all sorts of subs ban and I disagree with all of them. Violence isn't the defining difference. Many violent and hostile subs on all sides of the spectrum, political or not exist. There are tons of subs which , most likely in good intention, are breeding grounds that perpetuate negative, maladaptive lifestyles
Make the shareholder argument, or Reddit doesn't have an obligation to uphold freedom of speech (which is 100% true, they don't)... but I don't think you can legitimately ignore that topic freedom is why Reddit is a place people like going to.
ExtraversionOliveOil ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 15:24:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think it should be made clear that Reddit is not a free and open society. If it was, then there would be no need for admins or subreddit moderators, curbing free expression and censoring folks for breaking rules of those subreddits.
In a free and open society, I can say whatever I want (within legal reason). I can even go over to my friend Steve's house if I have his permission and say what I want there. However, if Steve doesn't like how I'm behaving in his house, he is perfectly within his rights to kick me out. I'm entitled to speak freely, but I'm not entitled to use Steve's house to do so. What subreddits like /r/stopadvertising and /r/reddit_shutdown want to do is convince Steve and his advertisers that /r/The_Donald is a poor houseguest, and makes Steve's house look bad as a whole.
GodOfAtheism ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 15:40:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They can have their speech on their own website that they pay for with their own money. No privately held website owes them a space.
TheUplist ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:56:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It goes like this. Send racist bots to TD. Have bots act like asses.. Accuse TD of racism. Rinse, repeat.
robustability ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:56:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Totally agree. Which is why when T_D instantly bans any user who offers a non right-wing opinion, they are suppressing free expression. They should not be supported under these principles of openness.
Besides, the internet is a big place. Reddit doesnโt owe them anything. They could go anywhere and start their hate communities.
InternetWeakGuy ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:11:47 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They're constantly inciting violence. That's pretty much people's main issue with them.
dimmidice ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:42:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah
You should go check it out. They do incite violence. They spread constant disinformation. It's a flaming pile of shit.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:24:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They regularly call for violence
UberMcwinsauce ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:29:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That sub encourages violence very frequently and at least one of the shooters in recent months was a fan of T_D iirc
definitelynotaspy ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:13:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Except that the admins are subsidizing said abhorrent ideas by changing the ways in which they serve ads to users in order to allow T_D to remain up while still appealing to advertisers. This goes beyond merely tolerating them.
Further, they do have a right to express their views. What they don't have is a right to express their views in any way on any platform at any time. To assert that banning T_D is somehow an affront to free speech is akin to saying a business owner would be wrong to kick Westboro Baptist Church members off of his property.
Giving these people a platform allows their ideas to spread and take hold where they otherwise wouldn't have. That has happened undeniably in recent years. That is not a good thing, and it is not something that the reddit admins should be allowing, let alone supporting.
TinkerSaurusRex ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:28:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There is an obvious technical solution to all this, albeit one that reddit may not want to deploy. That solution being the demonetization of certain subs, similar to how YouTube can demonetize certain channels, to ensure that ads don't appear on those subs. That allows the subs to exist as-is, without poisoning the hole of reddit with regards to attractiveness to advertisers.
beetnemesis ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:39:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's essentially what reddit is trying to do I think, short term anyway. The OP sub is going around that by essentially saying "Hey Nike, you are still tacitly supporting a website that says things like this."
citewiki ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:11:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Is it frown upon to gild in that sub?
DodgerDoan ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:17:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
We arenโt a hateful racist sub by any stretch...
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:09:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Suffuri ยท 48 points ยท Posted at 14:17:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Man, I really hate seeing the Charlottesville Protests listed as "resulting in 3 deaths", as though they had anything to do with the helicopter crash that killed 2 people. What they did was bad enough, no need to be intellectually dishonest and imply they were responsible for the other two.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:19:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
dontbothermeimatwork ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:07:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, its a dumb implication.
[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 15:03:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
MemoryLapse ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:03:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There's another doctrine in law called "proximate cause".
You should look that one up.
FearOfBees ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:44:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Have you actually ever been to the sub? Racism is banned there. Report racism and I guarantee they'll be banned or suspended for a long time.
beetnemesis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:51:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Racism has more forms than "Upvote this is you hate Jews."
I responded to a comment similar to yours elsewhere in the thread. I ducked over to t_d real quick, I'm talking like 30 seconds. I saw a post about Muslim men chanting that they own the UK now, a post about "The War on White People," and a post making fun of transgender rights.
There's a reason "dogwhistle" is a common word lately. That sub has a shared assumption that everyone feels the same way about certain types of people.
FearOfBees ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:02:04 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Did you miss the thread where we praise a legal african immigrant or did you miss the one where a gay pede thanked us for keeping the american dream alive where in the same thread I post that I am also bi?
stanleythemanley44 ยท -17 points ยท Posted at 13:15:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I wonder if they do the same thing when there are calls to violence in the comment section of /r/politics or other far left subs?
I'll have to keep an eye out, thanks!
SLeazyPolarBear ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 14:03:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
โFar leftโ meaning any sub that does not get down on its knees for trump?
I mean r/politics is pretty ridiculous but its also pretty far from โFar leftโ
esmifra ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 14:21:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If you are far right enough, everything else seems far left.
smokeybehr ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 14:29:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Conversely, if you're far left enough, everything else seems far right.
esmifra ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:39:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
whataboutism 101. And yes, yes it does, it's not relevant to my point though, but i bet it makes you feel better.
smokeybehr ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:57:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You don't know jack shit about "whataboutism", just every other moron who frequents shitholes like /worldnews. Just because someone points out your hypocrisy and obvious bias doesn't make it "whataboutism."
And fuck all of you that are downvoting me, because you all know that I'm right.
thelizardkin ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:09:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Have you ever been to latestagecapitalism? They're genocide deniers.
Avannar ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 14:17:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You're doing the same thing T_D users do: Binary thinking.
Sometimes you do see calls for violence on leftist subs. "Punch a Nazi" was a good example. As laudable as punching actual Nazis may be, there were people labeling every right winger a Nazi and saying we just needed to physically assault a lot of them to change their minds. Didn't get much backlash.
Galle_ ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 14:31:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Youโre changing the subject. /r/politics is not โfar leftโ.
stanleythemanley44 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:23:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Also people calling for the hanging of top govt officials including the president on the daily bc "treason." I mean that's not even the punishment for treason anyway...
CitationNeeded11 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:25:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
T_D has had quite a few posts wanting John McCain to be lynched, laughing about him having cancer, wanting him to be beaten with a brick. All of which stay up until AgainstHateSubreddits posts about it.
Ahmon ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:13:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's justice, not violence. Unless you mean lynching.
stanleythemanley44 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:16:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Hanging is not considered justice in the US. And certainly not for anything the president has done.
Ahmon ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:58:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, it is. The death penalty is perfectly legal in many jurisdictions. And treason does indeed carry that penalty. That probably doesn't apply to whatever Trump did, but it's still a call to justice, not violence.
Wyzegy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:42:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Pretty sure we've deemed hanging cruel and unusual at this point. So no hanging wouldn't be just in the US.
Ahmon ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:51:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's you playing semantics. Hanging means capital punishment in common parlance.
Wyzegy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:53:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Oh ok yeah you're using hanging as general term.
esmifra ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:20:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
They did several times with other subs, fat hate is a perfect example. There were plenty of other sub reddits as well.
But nice whataboutism fallacy mate.
Bascome ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 14:49:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
He is not excusing behavior with "Whataboutism" he is asking if there will be consistency.
Will some of the feminism subs be taken down for misandry and calling for violence against men for example?
This is not whataboutism, it is an exploration of a suggested solution.
esmifra ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:58:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Oh but it is whataboutism if he is trying to deflect an argument by using another example.
If /r/politics acted the way you are stating then sure, by all means, kill both sub reddits.
stanleythemanley44 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:23:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How is this whataboutism? I'm just wondering if they will pick and choose based on their biases or not. My guess is yes.
esmifra ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:43:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Ah the old deflection of trying to make me expand in my point and making you as a victim.
Reddit has banned plenty of sub reddits they considered hateful. Td is hateful as it is. Talking about r/politics and saying "what about them?", "they do it to!" is the definition of whataboutism. Please tell me how it isn't.
And if they do it then they should also be banned. I'm fine with it.
stanleythemanley44 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:48:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Lol asking for a clarification is deflection now?
And I'm opposed to banning basically any sub, but as Reddit becomes more popular it's a bad business decision.
My final thought would be that I've seen way more calls to violence on /r/politics than on T_D.
esmifra ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:59:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Again whataboutism 101.
If they did then by all means kill both subreddits.
stanleythemanley44 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:18:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Comparing 2 things =/= whataboutism
esmifra ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:26:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Again it is if your objective is to deflect the acusation.
"he did it too" is something we say when we are 5. Because we learn pretty fast that doing it is not helpful for our defense. Using the same argument now is also equally childish.
And i'm gonna write it again. If both sub reddits do it then by all means banned them both. It doesn't change anything.
td is toxic, it's full of hateful speech and that's what we are talking about here. Pointing to another saying "but maah he did tooooo" is whataboutism.
pomlife ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:27:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Once someone brings up something in conversation, you must only talk about that one thing and no other topic until a referee blows their whistle signaling you may introduce a comparison. Itโs in the rule book.
Hyndis ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:32:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Argument from fallacy, dude.
See, two can play this game. You can't just shut down the argument with one word. It doesn't work like that.
Make a good faith effort to address the argument if you want to be taken seriously. In this case the argument is that there is a bias. The parts of Reddit up in arms about T_D turn a blind eye to left wing subs, such as r/politics. It is possible, even likely, that both the left wing and right wing are equally biased and are both seeing things through filters.
In an effort to be fair, any rules imposed by one side would have to be imposed uniformly across the board, regardless of political spectrum. This means a lot of left wing subs, including r/politics, would get a heavy handed scrubbing just as much as T_D would.
Iorith ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:40:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If you think they're far left, you've been brainwashed by the right.
Protip: liberals aren't left wing, they're center right.
dontbothermeimatwork ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 15:10:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
/r/politics isn't liberal. Expanding individual liberty seems to be the last thing they are interested in there.
Iorith ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:41:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They're American liberals mostly, aka democrats, aka center right.
dontbothermeimatwork ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:50:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's what im saying, the American left has taken a distinct turn away from liberal philosophy in the last 20 years or so and is taking the Democratic party with them. This has left a lot of us with nowhere to go. Don't call /r/politics liberal, its not. The people fall all over themselves there to be the loudest in their support of curtailing their own civil liberties.
Iorith ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:52:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What civil liberties are they against?
PS, not everyone believes gun ownership should be a universal right.
dontbothermeimatwork ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:05:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Free speech, gun ownership, and due process primarily.
I realize not everyone believes gun ownership should be a universal right. I wouldn't call those people liberal though. How does limiting the rights of a free individual in an effort to curtail possible criminal activity by another individual jive with liberal philosophy? It doesn't.
Iorith ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:11:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I never see anyone demanding the government restrict free speech, but i do see calls for a platform to exercise it's right to be picky on who is given a voice.
You can "curtail possible criminal activity" in ways that don't end in death or that require the ability to murder 30 people between releasing. And if you can't pass a mental exam, I don't trust your ability to judge what's worthy of execution.
As for due process, I never see anyone wanting to cut down on that other than gun owners(you know, the people who salivate being able to execute a thief on the spot).
dontbothermeimatwork ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:27:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
If you've never seen advocacy for hate speech legislation I don't know what sub youre reading but its not /r/politics.
Im not exactly sure what you are trying to say here. You may have misunderstood my post. I was saying that restricting the rights of one individual to reduce the possibility of a separate individual committing a crime does not comport with liberal philosophy. It does seem to comport with current democratic party ideology though, which is what I was sad about.
So you do see people wanting to cut down on due process, its just restricted to people who are trying to exercise one of their other civil liberties so you don't mind? That challenges my claim how exactly?
Iorith ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:30:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Ah, you're one of those people that think rights are unlimited.
They aren't.
dontbothermeimatwork ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:40:47 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The only right that is de facto unlimited is the right of conquest.
Do you think we are debating values here? My post was debating the definition of a word I saw used incorrectly. I get you don't agree with me philosophically, that doesn't change the fact that liberal is not a word that applies to the bulk of upvoted content in /r/politics.
Iorith ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:43:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Words have multiple meanings. Just because it doesn't fit your favorite meaning doesn't make it incorrect.
dontbothermeimatwork ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:47:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
My favorite meaning? You mean the textbook definition? If the meaning of liberal is now: anything left of center in the current Overton window of US politics. Im not seeing what descriptive power it still holds.
Iorith ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:48:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What you see is irrelevant.
stanleythemanley44 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:41:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe in Europe or somewhere.
vodoun ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 13:57:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Of course not but that's not stopping anyone from using the same tactics to do that ;)
Though their first attempt resulted in TD getting no ads apparently so maybe it's best just to let this okay out naturally...
gorgewall ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:31:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is kind of like that time I chose to house rabid possums in my garage but they kept getting out and biting everyone so I erected a small fence around the garage and posted signs that say "WARNING: RABID POSSUMS".
beetnemesis ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:38:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Nah it's like having rabid possums as pets but you're selling your house so you hide them in the closet every time potential buyers come around
ShitFacedEsco ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:59:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Iโm willing to bet r/stopadvertising gets banned before t_d does.
Geminii27 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:41:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"Hey advertiser, when people contribute to these channels, it stops your ads from displaying. This is a Reddit management decision. Maybe you should talk to them about it."
nondescriptmale ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:01:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So...if a group made a concerted effort to make sure T_D is always on the front page it would significantly cut into Redditโs revenue.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:22:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
that's wild. to consider T_D racist, hateful, etc...
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 15:10:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
beetnemesis ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:23:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I go there sometimes (though almost never post, due to the rules).
I just went there now, and there's a post titled "Muslim migrants in London shouting "this is our country now, get out". America, you have been warned....
Another post, a few down- "War on White People"
Another one, a few below that, was mocking a protester with a sign "My baby can decide his gender! (title: His)," which is actually a bit amusing.
And those are just blatant ones from 30 seconds of scanning. There's a reason "dog whistle" has become a common phrase lately. Many, many, many posts in that sub have that kind of side-eyed, down-low, implicit bigotry. The kind of thing where it's "Oh, well, we don't have to say it straight out, but everyone here is basically on the same page when it comes to those people, right?"
As for being a "proud American" ...I went through this shit with W. "You're either with us, or against us." Lovers of free speech my ass.
Cuthbert12Allgood ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 15:44:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's basically how leftists lie. They can't criticize what the words actually mean, so they have to make up a lie about what they "really" mean.
No, the words mean what they mean. There's no hatred there, there is no racism. There is rock-ribbed resistance to leftist politics.
There's a reason leftists have decided that Freedom of Speech is an enemy. It's because they only way they can win is to lie to everyone and keep truth from being told. You can keep trying to destroy freedom of speech, but we WILL win. We're already winning. And eventually you'll wake up and realize just how much you've been lied to.
You are like German citizens during the Nazis. All you know is fascist leftist propaganda. The Nazis thought they were the good guys, too. They weren't, and you're on the wrong side. When you're against Freedom of Speech, that should tell you that you've sided with the bad guys.
beetnemesis ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:56:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, I just provided three examples? Unless you think that a racist subreddit is only going to have posts that say "Upvote if you hate the Jews."
Subtext exists in everything. It's why when you hear someone saying "Oh well, we don't deal with those kinds of people" you know exactly what they're saying.
Cuthbert12Allgood ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:45:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, "subtext" is bullshit people invent to LIE about other people and smear their character. Context is what matters.
Those three examples aren't hatred or violence in any way. You wouldn't know that, because you're taking it out of context. Look at the headline, "War on White People". Did you even read what that was about? Do you even know what's going on in South Africa?
You know exactly what they're saying because it literally says what it's saying. But without the context, it means nothing. Exactly how leftists like it. Without context, leftists can lie and make it mean anything they want.
Words have meaning. Don't make up bullshit and tell someone what they "really" mean.
beetnemesis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:13:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So... you're denying the very idea of subtext? It's something that was invented by liberals?
As for South Africa, the point isn't the specific issue - it's that there are a lot of different ways to report on an issue, and t_d consistently has the most inflammatory, DOG WHISTLE-y, sources.
Cuthbert12Allgood ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:32:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm denying the idea of subtext that can be used by one person to make assumptions about what is "really" in the mind of someone else. THAT is bullshit. In other words, subtext may or may not exist with a particular speaker, but it's a completely useless concept in practical value. The only reason someone brings up the concept of subtext is to smear someone's character and shut them up.
Now, "dog whistling" IS a completely bullshit, made-up subject. You're not thinking about anything, you are literally repeating leftist fascist propaganda that you've heard. You've literally never thought about the concepts you're spewing.
As for the t_d, why do you presume to speak about a place that you don't regularly visit? It's obvious you know nothing. Again, all you do is repeat what others have planted in you. Don't you think you should think for yourself?
violetdaze ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:57:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Oh god, you're pathetic. I assure you, no one in America is against freedom of speech. The difference is we understand that freedom of speech only applies to the government. You fucks think you can sit there, spewing racist shit, with no consequences because "mah freedom of speech!!!!" which is not remotely how it works.
Cuthbert12Allgood ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:55:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No one, except the former Chairman of the Democrat National Committee.
Shall we also talk about Berkeley and how leftists go insane with violence to shut down free speech?
Wake up. Leftists have defined any speech that resists leftist politics as hate speech.
violetdaze ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:14:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"Leftists have defined any speech that resists leftist politics as hate speech"
Ohh, fucking forgive me for not wanting to put up with the rights racist bullshit. We're not declaring it hate speech, IT IS HATE SPEECH.
Cuthbert12Allgood ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:24:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
No, it is not. That's your own mental issue. But even if something was "hate speech", it's none of your business what someone chooses to say. Freedom of Speech also means the freedom to be an asshole.
I think leftists are the most damaging people in the world, literally pushing fascism. But I would never presume to say they can't speak. If only leftists believed the same thing.
Note, by the way, that you don't even condemn using violence to shut down speech. That is who leftists really are. People should take note.
james1844 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:03:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Here is an interesting article that folks reading this thread might find helpful. It explains the need to have tolerance, even for speech that we disagree with.
https://www.rutherford.org/publications_resources/john_whiteheads_commentary/tolerance_cuts_both_ways_freedom_for_the_speech_we_hate
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:30:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
That worked very hard not to address the real problem; to what extent do you tolerate speech that exists to shut down speech and liberty.
All his examples were people going against order, sure, but none of his examples were about people seeking to take liberty away from others.
There were no stirring examples about Hitler on the campaign trail, or Mussolini, or other times when free societies have fallen into authoritarianism. He cherry picked the times when the speech was against the establishment but FOR liberty.
Our White Nationalist problem isn't about securing a different vision of liberty for all people. It's about cutting some of our people off from liberty.
beetnemesis ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 15:07:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Just read it, and honestly, while it's very stirring, it's not saying anything new or particularly insightful.
"Political Correctness is the REAL enemy!" is something that people have been ranting for decades, generally after people have told them that they're being assholes.
james1844 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:22:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks for actually reading it! Thats wonderful.
Ah...I don't think thats what the article is about. Granted, its a bit anti-government, but the main point is that we need to have tolerance for political views that we find disagreeable. Open discussion and respectful debate will get the country much further than calls for censorship and mutual name calling.
conception ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:32:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You should read up on the paradox of tolerance - this comic is the cliff notes http://skepchick.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/HcuZIT5w8xJLMXoISDexG1GNz5Dj7xHO_QGeueMtdPU.jpg
smooshie ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:38:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
People keep saying this, and I guess in theory sure it would be great if we could honestly and openly talk to Nazis and they would go "hmm yes i guess genociding jews and muslims might be bad".
But in reality, 99% of the time this doesn't work, because Nazis don't operate in good faith. Look at the websites with the most open, laissez-faire policies (the chans, twitter until recently, reddit, voat, etc.). Places where you can be anonymous, where ideas are not censored, where anything goes. If open discussion worked, these places would be shining beacons of enlightenment, instead it's the main places for Nazis and their ilk to preach and be heard.
Compare to sites which have stricter moderation (MetaFilter, Hacker News, Fark, NeoGaf, subreddits like /r/AskHistorians with strict mods, and so on), they don't tend to have this hate speech problem.
Also here's a story about a racist tree.
rawling ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:53:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
I guess that makes a change from fabricating screenshots of adverts next to subs.
NineSwords ยท -34 points ยท Posted at 13:31:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I dislike people like those in this sub. Because now I have to root for the idiots in T_D. I wish both sides would see that free speech and the freedom of opinion and expression works in both directions.
beetnemesis ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 13:44:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
First thing, Free Speech goes both ways. If you're free to say that illegal Mexicans are going to destroy America, then I'm free to say that I think that's racist. I'm also free to tell Nike that I don't want to give my money to people who say such things. If Nike advertises on reddit, then if I give money to Nike, I'm giving money to reddit.
Second thing, Free Speech is a protection from the federal government- that they won't restrict it. There is no legal or moral imperative for a private entity to provide platform for whatever loon feels like ranting today.
If I created a forum, I would be perfectly within my rights to say "I don't want racist shit on my forum. I didn't create this to 'debate' whether or not the Aryan Race is declining. Take that elsewhere."
Finally, I don't have any problem with banning the_donald, especially how we've seen in recent years that giving legitimacy to these echo chambers exacerbates problems. No one is saying "ban all conservative subreddits." They're saying "ban a sub that has become a twisted, bloated mockery of decency."
jabberwockxeno ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:17:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
I really hate having to defend The Donald, because I think it's a cesspool (most ragebait/circleejerk subs are) but your first two points really aren't as valid as you think they are.
TO BE CLEAR: I don't think Reddit banning the Donald is would fall afoul of the issues I mention below. I'm purely stating that "Freedom of speech isn't freedom from conqsquences" and "freedom of speech only has to do with the government restricting your speech" aren't really good arguements, or at least aren't as watertight as many people think, not that in this case the reasons why those are bad arguements are at play. So, with that all said...
Certainly, Freedom of Speech, in the US, as a legal protection, only protects you from consequences from the goverment. Nobody disputes this. When people talk about Freedom of Speech or Censorship, though, they might not necessarily mean in the strict legal sense, but as a general, wider concept. The first amendment isn't defining what the concept is, it's a protection for the concept. It's not necessarily defining the boundaries of where that concept is, or saying "anything this doesn't cover is harmless", it's meant to be the best balance of protecting free expression and thought with minimal regulation of other people.
Non-governmental entities have the power to shape discourse, invoke fear, curb dissent, and cause chilling effects, which are all consequences that the 1st amendment was also meant to curtail. Especially in an age where many corporations and companies wield as much more economic and social power as smaller nations. Why the hell would you think they aren't capable of that, when they are capable of stuff like ruining the environment, spying on millions of people, singlehandedly manipulating or damaging national economies, or all this other stuff they get regulated for?
The Motion Pictures Production Code and Comics Code Authority blacklisted plenty of creators and authors from their industries and cutrailed free expression in film and comics for decades. It's almost inarguable that they caused serious damage to free expression and political commentary. The Red Scare cost so many americans their jobs, social lives, and in many cases their homes and possessions due to vandalism over errant fear over their political opinions. It's also basically inarguable it didn't have seriously chilling effects on speech.
On modern social media, there's a huge culture of borderline harassing and blackmailing people, calling their employers or their advertisers to try to raise a stink and get them fired or lose their financial support over utterly stupid, petty reasons.
It is absurdly naive to just go "Well, it's not the government doing it, so that makes it okay!". As I was sayiing in the start of thepostts Most academics and civil liberties advocates are increasingly concerned about the impacts of corporate and social censorship on free expression. The ACLU Lawyer who launched the case that the supreme court ruled on that made the internet immune to the moral censorship Cable television and radio was subject to, for insttance, thinks that the biggest threat of censorship is from social media companies..
Just because the 1st amendment doesn't protect you from consequences, doesn't mean all of those consequences are warranted or justified, nor does it mean that said consequences aren't just as damaging to free expression in a societal sense. Hell, it doesn't even mean that it's not legally censorship: We do, in fact, treat the actons of private companies and entities as illegal suppression of speech in some cases: utilities are a good example of this, and this is key to the net neutrality debate. And, in fact, some supreme court cases have ruled that the internet constitutes a public square, and some supreme cout justices have argued in decisions that since the internet is increasingly an integral part of society, and has such immense value as a platform for speech, future cases may need to make exceptions and restrict the speech of private platforms, since the internet is entirely privately run and there's no way around that.
Now, my devil's advocate arguement out of the way: Do I think they should be banned?
I don't really care too much either way: my main concern would be that they are consistent: If they ban The Donald, then they better ban other subs that do the things that made The Donald banworthy.
error_try_again ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:40:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Amen. I'd rather have an Internet with assholes I can easily recognise and ignore, than one where I have to watch my steps in order to not lose my voice.
Some people are going to be assholes. Trying to ban that from your life rather than learn to cope with is a futile endeavour which will hurt everyone in the process.
beetnemesis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:32:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah both of those are fair. I mean, there aren't many watertight arguments here.
My actual thought is "The_Donald has gone far beyond simply being a politics subreddit- it's a twisted example of the worst parts of the right-wing, internet culture, propaganda, and basic decency. It existing actively makes reddit a worse place, and probably the world."
But that's pretty emotional and subjective, so I wouldn't try to bring it to a debate.
yodongorea ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:54:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I just dont get it. Reddit thinks people should be shut down if they are racist. That its a good reason to fire them, stop them getting new jobs, whatever.
But if I say I dislike gays and won't hire them. Well, that shit is going to court.
What's with the double standard?
TheRealMaynard ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:54:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
OK, but you didn't create Reddit. Reddit was run for many years under the promise of never censoring any content whatsoever (except illegal content). This has changed in the last couple of years, but I can understand why people are upset.
esmifra ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:27:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If i have money to spend on Ads, free speech is not a tool that forces me to spend on it.
Free speech is not a tool to enforce your views on others. Others are free to call you an asshole and move way or change the channel. Free speech just means you as an individual cant be persecuted for being an asshole. Others are free to avoid you if they want.
It's my money i spend it whenever i want in whatever i want.
idownvotetwitterlnks ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:02:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Have you been to /r/politics lately? It's T_D from the left. If you are for banning T_D then /r/politics needs to be banned also.
Political_moof ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:23:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's a nice false equivalency, but it ignores the fact that we don't want t_d banned merely because it supports trump, but rather that it regularly fosters racism, sexism, homophobia, etc.
idownvotetwitterlnks ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:43:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So you want to ban it because it offends you? As hateful as it is, it is free speech.
Just turn the channel and you won't be bothered.
I go to /r/politics because its like watching 3rd graders trying to debate.
Political_moof ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:07:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Gee, good thing Reddit isn't a government entity then. Fat people hate was "muh freeze peach" too. Shockingly, I don't mourn the loss.
vodoun ยท -17 points ยท Posted at 13:59:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But that's hateful, it's like accusing someone of being a rapist. The irony is that you're specifically saying those guys shouldn't have a right to voice their options because their opinions are hateful....you're doing this by saying hateful things about them...
So do you see why people don't respect your stance? You're a hypocrite right off the bat
beetnemesis ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:11:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"You're being intolerant because you don't respect my intolerance" is a very old, fatuous argument.
vodoun ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:14:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Sure, in what way?
esmifra ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:36:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What do you mean what way? In what way isn't?
vodoun ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:44:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You made the statement that this is a fatuous argument, we both know that the onus is on you to explain how
So, in what way is it?
esmifra ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:51:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The onus here is on no one. But it is in your interest to try to explain my self. It's easier, forcing me to create an argument elaborate it for you to then you reply with a 4 letter sentence open question and making me argue semantics.
vodoun ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:58:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Of course it is, we're having a discussion in which you threw out an accusation.
You don't believe that it's in your best interest to be able to defend your position when called upon to? When you say "create an argument", do you mean "explain" your argument? Because you already made the argument above, I'm asking for clarification
When you know what you're talking about, being asked to clarify yourself isn't a problem. I see that this is clearly not the case for you...
That's not at all what "argue semantics" means. I'm not asking you to clarify your verbiage, I'm asking you to provide facts that back up your argument
So do you have any facts or are you just one of those people that talks about things out of their mental grasp in an effort to appear more knowledgeable?
esmifra ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:00:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Where is the accusation?
It is if your intention is to make us go in circles:
It's easier, forcing me to create an argument elaborate it for you to then you reply with a 4 letter sentence open question and making me argue semantics.
vodoun ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:06:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Right there. I then asked you
And then you proceeded to try and make this a circular conversation by essentially saying "I don't need to prove anything to you"
My question was very linear, you're the one who seems unwilling to break out of this. I asked you "in what way" and you were unwilling to answer that.
Why would you be unwilling to answer something so easy?
esmifra ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:18:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Saying racist things like "black people are more violent" and then playing the victim when people accuse of being racist is a a fatuous argument.
vodoun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:23:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You've already stated this and I already asked you to explain "in what way"
We've already been here, it's time to move to the next step...
In what way?
esmifra ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:30:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Are you trying to prove my point i gave a perfect example of "in what way"!
If you don't know what fatuous means it's not my fault. Go educate yourself.
I think with all these comments most people realized how you deflect arguments.
Cya stay well.
vodoun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:34:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And we're doing loops again. How come you didn't have any issue very quickly providing sources in your other comment but you're struggling so much here?
esmifra ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:29:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's not hateful. It's a definition.
Dictionaries arent hateful for stating what words mean.
If your commentary is racist and i say that's racist that's not hateful, it's the definition.
Hateful would be saying you don't deserve to live because you're a racist. That's hateful. Or calling you racist pig. That's hateful.
vodoun ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:41:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Would you consider it hateful if I said "blacks in the USA commit more crimes per capita than any other race"?
esmifra ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:46:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
By that sentence alone, no. But if by your comment you are trying to imply blacks are more violent just because they are black, then yes.
But nice one, giving me a perfect example of passive racism for the future.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yUafzOXHPE
vodoun ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:50:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's exactly what that sentence states (not implies) and that's exactly what the statistics say
In a group of 5 black men, you are significantly statistically more likely to encounter a violent incident than in a group of 5 men of any other race
The statistic is based on skin colour alone
So yes, you're saying that this statistic is racist?
esmifra ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:57:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Nice one on showing your true colors there.
That's not how statistics work though, a statistic is an indicator. A correlation. Correlation is not causation. It's the person that then should extrapolate the data to find conclusions, and if the person is racist it's normal for the conclusions to be as well.
If i make a sample analyze it and make a statistic saying among convicted criminals the most common watch is a casio that doesn't mean casio users are more violent than others.
By the same definition, countries that have low black population would be crime free or a lot better. But many aren't. Specially poor countries like eastern Europe countries during the 90s.. Or even now among the poor neighborhoods. It's like it's more related to the social economic context than skin. Imagine that.
vodoun ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:02:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What? They absolutely are when you compare them to countries with a high black population. The facts on on my side for this one as well
Sure, can you show me a statistic that says this?
So again - yes, you do believe that the statistic I mentioned was racist?
esmifra ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:17:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
See my post above, It's like it's more related to the social economic context than skin
https://www.ultius.com/ultius-blog/entry/socioeconomic-status-and-crime.html
http://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/publications/violence.aspx
https://www.criminallawandjustice.co.uk/features/Link-Between-Poverty-and-Crime
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.504.2832&rep=rep1&type=pdf
http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/csj-sjc/crime/rr06_6/rr06_6.pdf
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/socio-economic-influences-on-childrens-life-chances
vodoun ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:26:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So you are able to answer a straightforward question very quickly when you know that your argument is solid!
Here you're being circuitous again just like your other thread
esmifra ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:28:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
See how you made me look for sources, made me make several arguments and your replies were all single sentence and deflective, ignoring my arguments.
That's exactly what I meant. And thank you very much for proving my point. Cya latter.
vodoun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:35:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
...are you actually serious? This is absolutely hilarious! You've been the one doing this! I feel like I'm talking to a toddler, there's no logic in anything you say
This is such a bizarre encounter..you're such a weirdly self conscious person
Have you seen someone for this? You really should have this corrected before you get too old
hamret ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:10:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Are you seriously pushing an agenda of racists being the victims?
esmifra ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:36:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Yes he is. Look at this:
On a post about the kkk...
Yep.
[He also goes to Europe and talks about Russia and NATO.]
He is a td caricature in text form.. And uses miscommunication and ignorance as deflection.
Racism is not racism, attacking others but when other attack back he is the victim. Whataboutism. I love that if you see closely, he actually arguments very little and asks you to expand in your pov, then uses a little part of your argument and forces you to explain why isn't he the victim. That 101 deflection drill.
vodoun ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:11:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So your response to "it's hateful to call someone a racist for supporting the current us president" is....to call them a racist?
Are you serious?
hamret ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:21:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
A: I support racist ideologies
B: That's kinda racist...
A: That's extremely hateful and I'm baffled as to why you would attack me like that. You're trying to censor me because I'm a republican.
You see why I have a hard time taking your position seriously?
I'd also like to note that I never called anyone a racist. I'm just super confused as to how you arrived at the conclusion that racists are the victims of racism
vodoun ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:22:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think the disconnect for you is at step "A".
Which "racist ideologies" specifically do you believe that all supporters of Donal Trump support?
hamret ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:27:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't, and won't, say that all trump supporters are racist, and neither did the person you initially replied to.
vodoun ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:27:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is a thread about how T_D is a racist hate sub...
Which racist ideologies?
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:04:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
vodoun ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:09:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
...but that's exactly what they say ๐
Is this actually your argument?
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:10:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
esmifra ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:30:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
When it's in his best interested to be.
It's 101 deflection.
vodoun ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:12:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Which part of that simple sentence are you having trouble with?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:15:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
vodoun ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:19:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How can I simplify it for you kid? Which specific words are tricky? I think I made the mistake of assuming that at your age you wouldn't need you had held to get through a sentence
Do you not understand that TD thinks you're wrong, is that the problem?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:21:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
vodoun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:26:47 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Good boy =) now you're catching on! So if you think they should be banned because you think they're wrong, and they think you should be banned because you're wrong....who gets banned?
I know you can get this one too!
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:28:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
BlackSheepwNoSoul ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:42:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
LOL he proves you wrong and you cop out with "I'm bored now" cause you realized what he was saying.
This is like the Confederates or "The south" Fighting The Union or "The North" BTW The past racists were the South and they were Democrats. The North were trying to abolish slavery, its the same thing now, The South > Democrats > Confederates, want to take away rights from people who deserve to have them, And the North > Republicans > Union are trying to fight to keep their rights. Do you also think that slavery should still be legal? would you prefer if our country didnt arm our citizens to protect us from the Red Coats? would you prefer if we were owned by Britain who has child laundering and child rapist roaming free?
SURE THERE ARE 2 SIDES to the coin. Evil persists in the world and you will never be rid of it. T_D doesn't need to be banned, Politics is literally actually much more Offensive and biased, racist and bigoted, but the right is trying not to call out anyone cause we dont want to stoop to that level, we're trying to have civil conversations, explain things, talk things out and understand points of view.
But you'll never understand someone who actually fucking says "I'm bored with this now" Glad to have wasted some of your time" the only thing you're doing is shown how little thought you put into your position and how easily it is to debunk it, and disprove you.
good job.
Ky1arStern ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 13:37:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Can you expand on this a little more, it sounds a lot like you're on the side of T_D in that they should be free to share their opinions, even if those opinions are those that would be primarily shared by Nazi's, racial supremacists, and various other groups who's main goals are to spread hatred of others.
If i'm phrasing my question in a leading way then feel free to re-phrase it in a way more to your liking on response.
TheTVDB ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 13:54:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Note that most Americans are free speech absolutists when you get down to it. I am, not because I think those groups have anything valid to share, but because I think itโs dangerous for the government to have a say in what is acceptable free speech. Iโd rather allow people to say what they want (within our Constitutional guidelines, like not inciting violence), and let other people disregard them or provide logical counter-arguments. Weโve had Nazis running for office for decades in the US... they just have a more accessible platform for their stupidity these days.
esmifra ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:38:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I call it free speech anarchists. The same as free market anarchists.
TheTVDB ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:03:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Little different. Anarchism tends to want no government intervention whatsoever. In this case, I absolutely want government interaction if someone else's actions infringe on my (or someone else's) Constitutional rights. That prevents or limits things like inciting violence, libel, slander, etc. I just don't want a huge gray area where the government can decide that something is potentially offensive and prevent people from discussing it.
esmifra ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:40:32 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well that's my point. Some people want to put freedom of speech on a place where no government or individual can interfere with it. Hence why I call it anarchy. But I admit absolutism makes more sense.
the-crotch ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:44:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
He's a free speech absolutist, one of the many groups your side categorizes as 'nazis'.
What neither side understands is, reddit isn't the government, reddit isn't a necessary evil like the power company, it's a website you go on to bitch about politics while you're taking a shit. If you feel so passionately that they're morally bankrupt, stop using the site. It's literally that simple.
Ky1arStern ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:52:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think that's unfair to free speech absolutists. Just because you believe literally all sides deserve the opportunity to share your point of view, does not make you a part of some of the more radical communities that might otherwise be silenced.
The argument about T_D isn't about whether Reddit should take political sides or if the site is "good" or "bad" or anything like that. The issue at hand, at least to me, is whether Reddit is enabling violent radical behavior, and allowing it to be encouraged.
It's not about whether, "i'm offended" by a self-proclaiming Nazi. It's about whether Reddit is providing a forum for these people to grow their ranks and enact their ideas, and whether that should be allowed.
vodoun ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:01:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That doesn't make sense. Suppressing speech about these things doesn't lead down a good path, and allowing it in no way encourages violence
That's like saying a strip club owner encourages rape...
Ky1arStern ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:14:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I dont think the slippery slope logic here is fallacious. The line appears to be pretty clear. You're not allowed to incite non-consensual violence against others (Cause some people are into that). The idea that there's some sort of rule-making inertia that comes with that that leads to "you're not allowed to disagree with X" doesn't logically follow.
As far as whether providing a forum encourages violent behavior, one could make the argument that by providing a way to create a community from what would otherwise be disparate elements, you're permitting these people to say this is acceptable. Inciting violence for racial or religious reasons is not acceptable behavior in modern society, and giving people who are trying to do that a "safe" space to do it is almost certainly going to allow that behavior to be normalized.
How?
vodoun ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:17:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is not a slippery slope fallacy (google that btw) it's a well researched and documented psychological problem
That can be said about literally anything. You think if these guys weren't on Reddit they just wouldn't exist?
What do you mean? You just equated the venue of an "event" with the potential crime that may arise from that event.
Ky1arStern ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:29:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Got it. Strip clubs dont have a special area for rapists to specifically congregate as rapists. If your strip club has a significant amount of rape occurring at or around it, then wouldn't you say that it's time to enact some policy changes to try and prevent that? Even though you're not actively encouraging it, something your business is doing is causing this violent event, and one would think that instead of saying, "well i'm not encouraging rape directly", you would attempt to do something about it. That's what's being discussed here. Active users of subs specifically encouraging hateful ideas, are performing hateful and harmful tasks. Instead of hiding behind "free speech for all", the discussion should be had about whether there is a way to curb the encouragement of these ideas.
They would exist, but they wouldn't be able to globally congregate and organize. Two guys who think muslims are all terrorists in small town pennsylvania is a hazard, but they're 2 isolated people. Give them a way to connect with all of the other people in the entire world who feel the same way, and all of the sudden they have access to people who might have resources to "do something about it", or at the very least, can encourage each other to "do something about it" with the resources they have available. The phrase, "strength in numbers" comes to mind.
I actually googled it before using it, and then i messed up my sentence, i'll rephrase. I think the slippery slope logic that suppressing hateful speech will inevitably lead to the suppression of other speech is fallacious.
vodoun ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:40:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So your argument is that TD is a "special place" for racists and Nazis to congregate. Sure, in what way are they racist Nazis? If you're not just throwing wild accusations then it should be fairly easy to post links to nazi stuff on TD
You're saying that the girls shouldn't be dressed like that if they didn't want to get raped?
What tasks? The task of exchanging ideas that you deem dangerous? This sounds familiar
Why? Because the Reddit is the only place on the internet people can chat to each other on? There are billions of other places people can go just, that's without even taking into consideration the dark web
That's a phrase historically used by the underdog in an oppressive authoritarian regime...if you're saying that it applies to TD, you're literally making my argument for me
It is not; like I said before, this is a well documented and researched psychological problem.
To simplify it: bottling up emotions because the subject perceives them to be inappropriate leads to those emotions being expressed in inappropriate or violent ways
Stifling people's freedom to express themselves has time and again, without fail, lead to disastrous consequences; why would you advocate for this?
the-crotch ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:02:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It is allowed though, but it's only allowed because you're here, if you and everyone who thinks like you just left the site would crumble. Reddit is using left wing money to push a right wing agenda and you're facilitating that.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:11:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Let alone all the free advertising subs like this does....
Ky1arStern ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:15:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If everyone always abandoned a community because of its radical elements, then you'd end up with something like our current political parties. Discussion, clear reason, and a desire by a community to improve themselves is necessary to prevent descending into tribalism, like the political parties in the US currently have.
the-crotch ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:22:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Who exactly has abandoned our current political parties? Every election I hear about how both candidates suck, but you shouldn't vote for a third party because you're throwing your vote away/actually helping the bad guys. That attitude is the only reason the parties are allowed to exist. Participation is voluntary, just like reddit. Don't like how it's being run? Let your feet do the talking.
Ky1arStern ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:32:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
184 million Americans who did exactly what you're saying and didn't go out to vote. That one is easy.
the-crotch ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:46:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's not finding an alternative, that's giving up.
nik-nak333 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 13:52:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Why should we leave when they're the ones who suck?
the-crotch ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:00:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Seems to me your gripe is with reddit itself, they allow things you don't like in their house, but I'm like if you don't like what reddit allows in their house go find someone else's basement to smoke pot in
vodoun ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:00:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They think you're the ones that suck sooo....
NineSwords ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:27:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Like I said, I am not happy to be on their side in that matter because I find that particular ilk utterly despicable. But I believe that they are entitled to their opinion regardless of how this goes against everything I believe in. My problem in this case is that the sub is actively trying to force reddit to ban the T_D sub. They arenโt just saying that the sub is filled with idiots, they are trying to get something banned that they donโt agree with. I see them as the typical SJW that only see justice if it happens to coincide with their current world view. I donโt see any difference in their actions to ban one opinion than people burning books with opinions they didnโt like at the time.
So yeah. I think that they should be free to share their opinions however misguided they be. If they would actively try to ban r/Mexico or r/lgbt I would say exactly the same in their defense. For me itโs not about the content but about the ability to say what you want without having someone try to ban your opinions.
I hope this clears it up a bit.
OneTime_AtBandCamp ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 13:48:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If merely telling advertisers that T_D exists is enough for them to pull their ads then maybe T_D is the problem.
jimmahdean ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:15:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's not telling them T_D exists, it's telling them that T_D is a nazi haven. I doubt they would care if you just say T_D is a right wing sub full of trump supporters.
BSRussell ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:57:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You don't have to do shit, and the ability to post content on someone else's ad supported platform isn't a "free speech" issue.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 13:46:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
True, but apparently threads like that are riddled with white supremacists and those guys recruit through social networking and promote terror and violence often in the form of lone wolf tactics.
esmifra ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:25:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Again with the free speech absolutism. Free speech doesn't prevent you from other people making judgement on your speech. It just prevents on you being persecuted by your PoV. It doesn't force others to say yes you your hateful blabber, it doesn't force others to spend money and see their ads next to racist blabber.
If you are say ass whole insults at work and are fired because of it, there's no breach of free speech.
You are free to speek your mind, the world is free to tell you you are an asshole as well.
It does work both ways. It's not a get out of jail card. It's not a way of attacking others without repercussion. It's a shield that protects people but not the content.
Iorith ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:41:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Unless the government is involved and arrests are being made, free speech doesn't apply.
Private platforms have no obligation to give them a voice. Me not giving you a microphone isn't silencing you, it's refusing to help you spread your message, which I have every right to do.
Galle_ ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:33:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I wish you would see that free speech and freedom of expression works in both directions. Disagreeing with you is not censorship. Neither is refusing to associate with you.
NoLaMess ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 14:43:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Does nobody realize youโre using a free service? You want the people that advertise to keep the site alive to bend to your will because you donโt like a part of a site you can have blocked entirely.
Does nobody see how entitled and power hungry that is?
If you donโt like Redditโs practice then walk. The majority doesnโt agree with td so if you had a backbone youโd walk away rather than trying to cripple income.
But that would be inconvenient so guess that isnโt happening
Mr_The_Captain ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:20:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I don't really know how I feel about this business with keeping TD on the site or not, but I do think it's a bit silly that people are literally saying how they don't want to support businesses that advertise on Reddit but they're still using Reddit itself. Like I get why, they want to change it from the inside, but at first glance it's just strange.
NoLaMess ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:24:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Theyโre not grasping that they are the inside.
Donโt like what Redditโs doing then just stop using it. I loathe this new attitude of โI donโt like something so everyone better change to suit my needsโ
beetnemesis ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:48:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly, I'd be interested in a reddit alternative. I log on to Voat every so often, but it kind of seems like a shitshow.
As for your main point, I assume that's the purpose of the sub- Admins don't really care much about user outcry, so the way to effect change is to complain to advertisers- a pretty common tactic to be honest.
GodOfAtheism ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:42:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Understatement of the year.
The last time I checked in there there was a post about how they didn't like Hitler, not because of the jew thing, (the OP of the thread made it clear that jews == bad), but because of the socialism thing.
NoLaMess ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:49:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What I donโt understand is the entitlement and self righteousness to demand they change for the user.
Reddit is free. They want to dip into the admins pockets because their hissy fits arenโt working and they need a safe space away from anything they donโt agree with
beetnemesis ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:55:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Safe space is an overused term.
Also, I don't think it's that. It's more related to boycotting something you find morally distasteful. Like when everyone found out Chick-Fil-A donated millions to anti-gay groups, and people protested and boycotted them.
Obviously we're all addicted to reddit, so boycotting them isn't a feasible solution. But boycotting* their advertisers...
Actually, it's kind of interesting- OP ISN'T boycotting their advertisers. They're not even threatening that. I mean, the implication is there, but the message is actually "Hey, just so you know, you're advertising on a site that supports X. Some people might get mad at you for that, but just wanted you to know what was going on in case reddit tricked you with their new algorithm"
NoLaMess ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:58:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So youโre saying people are too weak to change themselves so they want everyone else around them to change so they feel better.
Itโs absolutely feasible and reasonable solution wise. Theyโre just too chicken shit to actually do anything they wouldnโt benefit from to show it.
So again, entitled with no real backbone or enough conviction to do anything mildly inconvenient for what they โbelieve inโ
Youโre getting a little fast and loose with the term support as well.
They tolerate and allow a ton of distasteful subreddits in the sake of some sort of fairness but they arenโt outright shouting support.
They go to a lot of lengths to ensure it leaks as little as possible but itโs not enough because users refuse to change so they expect everyone else to do so as it suits them.
Collin_b_ballin ยท -14 points ยท Posted at 14:12:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How is the_donald racist? Because it disagrees with your views? I sorted by controversial and couldnโt find a single racist post. Mainly itโs just a bunch of posts about how reddit suppresses their posts over there
Political_moof ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:17:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/879es4/blacks_in_power_dont_empower_blacks/?st=JF8BGZT9&sh=c3f77618
Literally just opened new, second post.
Thanks for playing!
Edit:
Some homophobia for fair measure.
https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/879dgp/i_feel_horrible_about_the_tragedy_in_parkland_and/
smokeybehr ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:32:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So now the truth is racist? Did you even bother to watch the video in the link, or are you just going off the title? Do you even know any of the history of the Black politicians and activists in power, and how they've been making people dependent on the Government since the 60's?
Collin_b_ballin ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:20:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Wow, so the black guy in that video is racist towards himself? I didnโt know that was possible. Itโs like that Chappelleโs show skit
Galle_ ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:36:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The fact that TD is racist is obvious to any unbiased observer. If you refuse to acknowledge that TD is racist, then thereโs no evidence in the world that could convince you it is.
Collin_b_ballin ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:38:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Perhaps linking a post thatโs actually racist, instead of linking a video of a black guy talking about the issue and saying heโs racist towards himself wouldโve done the trick
Galle_ ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 14:41:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If we were to, hypothetically, link you to a post of TD calling for the enslavement of blacks, you would not have believed that it was racist. Youโre a textbook case of motivated reasoning and confirmation bias.
Collin_b_ballin ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:49:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Uhh, yes I would have. How can you even say that? The linked post was so ridiculously far from saying anything of the sort
Galle_ ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:52:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I donโt believe you, even though from your perspective youโre telling the truth. Iโve seen your kind before. Iโve been your kind before. I know exactly how you think.
Hereโs my personal advice for you - you need to be as skeptical of yourself as you are of everyone else. Why are you demanding evidence that forces you to believe that TD is racist, but are satisfied with evidence that merely allows you to believe that it isnโt? The bias is obvious.
Collin_b_ballin ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:57:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I had never been on the Donald before today, so when I saw this post I went over there to check things out. I sorted by controversial and scrolled for a few minutes, but didnโt see anything racist. So I asked for an example of a racist post so I could see first hand that it was and no one could find an example of one. How is that โevidence that merely allows me to believe it isnโt?โ This whole argument is so stupid, if you wouldโve just linked a racist post this conversation wouldโve been over after one comment. Instead everyone is just calling me racist and biased instead of simply just showing the evidence. Why would I blindly believe a random person on the internet telling me itโs racist but they canโt actually show any proof?
Collin_b_ballin ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:59:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And if you โdonโt believe me,โ how about you just link a racist post from there? Problem solved. Seems like youโre going through a lot more work to argue with me and call me names than it would have been to just link a post
Galle_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:02:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Because you wouldnโt believe it was a racist post, obviously, we just covered that.
Collin_b_ballin ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:03:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
To me it just seems like you just canโt find one so you just keep making assumptions about me instead
Galle_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:04:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
We already found one and you already refused to believe it was racist for a stupid reason.
Collin_b_ballin ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:04:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Or maybe youโre afraid that if you found a post that was actually racist that I would agree it was, and then youโd look like a fucking dumbass
Galle_ ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:07:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, donโt worry, I am definitely not afraid of that at all.
esmifra ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:19:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Racism is racism, you can perfume it as you want call it whatever you want but it doesn't change what it is.
I always love this "is not racism is X" or "is just my opinion". Yeah. and your opinion is racist, and your X is racist as well.
Are all td users racist? No, but i bet there is a correlation.
Username_Used ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:22:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe you're racist and don't understand what racism is.
Collin_b_ballin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:27:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Ah, yes. The classic liberal argument, โyouโre a racistโ
Username_Used ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:42:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I just posited a theory that maybe you didn't understand the concept and as such don't recognize that your thoughts and beliefs are possibly racist.
Micokerts ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 14:18:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Why is r/the_Donald racist?
Galle_ ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:32:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Because Trump is racist, so he tends to attract racist supporters.
Micokerts ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:04:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Why is he racist?
Galle_ ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:07:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Because his dad was racist, I guess. I donโt know, Iโm not a psychologist.
Micokerts ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:40:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I don't understand you're argument here. Can you provide any evidence of trump saying something racist? Why is his father relevant?
Galle_ ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:42:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You asked why Trump was racist, not if heโs racist.
Micokerts ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:47:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Okay thanks for your input.
magicmentalmaniac ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:50:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Beats me. Perhaps it's because they're incredibly stupid.
Micokerts ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 15:05:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Why are they incredibly stupid?
magicmentalmaniac ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:25:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Could be lead, could be poor education, or perhaps this is just what the worst quarter of the bell curve has to offer. Whatever the reason, Trump supporters, in particular those on the_duckfart, are the absolute dumbest people to ever walk the face of the earth.
xander_man ยท 439 points ยท Posted at 15:42:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You don't have to like T_D to want Reddit to be free and open and not be at the mercy of advertisers. I really don't think most of you people want it that way, you just want to use the advertisers against something you hate. That's a dangerous path you can't turn back from.
Vengeance164 ยท 178 points ยท Posted at 18:00:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is exactly why YouTube is currently such a shitshow, and why every other week there's another popular channel that pops up on /r/videos because they got demonetized.
Do I think Coke ads should be on an ISIS recruitement video? No. But by calling Coke out and making a huge deal about it, they forced Coke to start policing their ads. And YouTube, in response to this, just created a list of potentially controversial topics that advertisers can opt out from. So now, science channels are getting demonetized because they show chemicals and reactions.
I agree with the sentiment, t_d can eat chode, but this is a fucking dumbass way of shutting them down.
OverlordQuasar ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 19:26:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What other methods do we have? We have repeatedly reported cases of mods leaving up highly upvotes posts that break reddit's rules, we have documented it heavily in subreddits like /r/againsthatesubreddits, we have spoken out constantly. Spez and the other admins have made changes to hide the problem, and taken down peripheral subreddits, but they have continuously refused to take down t_d. Reddit admins have a history of waiting until advertisers put on pressure to enforce rules or regulate their content to conform to the law (remember /r/jailbait?). This is the only solution that remains. T_d is actively dangerous. The radicalization that has occurred their has already led to people being murdered, and many, many more cases of people being harassed heavily. A study a while ago found that banning subs like that has actually worked to decrease radicalization and extremist views.
Wyzegy ยท 41 points ยท Posted at 19:48:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Don't go to t_d?
Crackpixel ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 20:13:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
b.b.but about what do we complain then?
Wyzegy ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:15:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
...t_d?
_a_random_dude_ ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 20:46:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I filtered them and they were gone. However, thanks to the awesome work of the 3 dozens of anti td subs, I constantly get their sit on /r/all just linked with an obnoxious comment.
Besides, the reason it's so annoying to me is that he's not my president and I'm beyond sick of hearing about him. I can't filter everything I want I because 100 subs it's just not enough and new ones keep popping out. I can't just use all my filters on the political idiots, because I need to filter memes and sports too to be able to have a good time here.
TerrorSuspect ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 21:51:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The only time I ever see posts from them is when it's someone complaining about them like this or on againsthatesubs or whatever sub that is.
BenjewminUnofficial ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:36:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
They still make it to r/all fairly regularly
Edit: here they are on r/all today
Bibidiboo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:40:12 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Just filter any and all Posts that have the word Trump or donald in it and 99.99% are gone
GringoGuapo ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:22:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well that's the approach I take but it doesn't really address the issues that /u/OverlordQuasar brought up.
OverlordQuasar ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 22:11:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And how does that prevent people from being radicalized to violence, or from harassing people outside of t_d. T_d isn't its own plane of existence, things that happen there directly impact not just the rest of reddit, but the rest of the internet as well as the "real" world.
Wyzegy ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:17:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah so far as I'm aware no one's done violence because of being on t_d.
And you'll forgive me if I'm skeptical about harassment after so many other claims of internet harassment end up either being legit criticisms or just a bunch of randos saying "you suck" on twitter.
wasslainbylag ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:57:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
by specifically targeting and hating t_d and the people that post therein (normies like me and the rest of the lot), doesnt that make /r/againsthatesubreddits effectively a hate subreddit?
turn it off just like the rest of reddit has done. it no longer appears on r all, with the exception of all the stupid anti t_d subreddits butthurt posts.
MissKhary ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:56:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I am perfectly oblivious to the shitshow that goes on in that subreddit because I don't choose to visit it, nor do I choose to visit many other subs. But it does give a view to outsiders that Reddit is some sort of cesspool of shit posters with no real value. I think this view is more and more rare though, as more and more people have contact with Reddit and see that you don't see the nasty shit unless you go looking for it.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 21:12:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You're oblivious, but not visiting t_d doesn't spare you when they spread like cancer throughout the site.
MissKhary ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:13:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Closing a subreddit doesn't stop them from shitposting in other subreddits though, so I'm not sure if it'll solve anything other than make people feel like they've won some turf war.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:17:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, it won't stop them entirely, but closing their y'all queda recruitment center has to have some impact. When the alternative is leaving Charlottesville: the sub open, I think nuking it is a fairly obvious choice.
Vengeance164 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:59:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If you read the admins responses in the blog update about the Russian bot investigation and reddits cooperation with the FBI, I think there's enough context there to reasonably assume that Reddit has been either asked or outright told by the FBI not to delete the sub. It explains their dodgy answers and why they haven't done more.
Complaining to advertisers is a deal with the devil. The internet status quo has been that ads are not associated with the content on which they appear, and for good reason. YouTube is in a downhill spiral because of this bullshit. Tons of legitimate channels are getting demonetized, and now so are gun-safety and informational channels. This is actively silencing good sources of information because a bunch of people got butthurt and went crying to advertisers. It's not worth it.
Captain_Arrrg ยท 60 points ยท Posted at 18:39:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
If you think Steve and Co. aren't heading down that path regardless you're kidding yourself.
Just like Facebook and any other "free" service, what they're selling is us.
/r/StallmanWasRight
vehementi ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:42:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah this is the same shit as when people gleefully find legal loopholes to try and get someone arrested because they dislike that person. Here we don't like T_D so we are siccing
the copsthe advertisers on them.DinkyThePornstar ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:35:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"Welcome to reddit, where speech is free and open discourse is encouraged, except for people and opinions we don't like, even if it is factual"
[deleted] ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 18:01:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
zh1K476tt9pq ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:37:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Except that t_d explicitly censors free speech.
pi_over_3 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:09:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What political doesn't?
Can you name a single one?
Fargonian ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:40:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
All extremist subs do. r/Pyongyang, r/gunsarecool, etc.
garlicdeath ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 20:32:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Even /r/latestagecapitalism admits it's a safe space.
Lonelan ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:49:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Except Pyongyang knows it is satire
Aikidi ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:15:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think that's all there is to it though. Look at what jailbait did to the reddit community - despite the page itself not breaking any laws it drew an entire sub community of pedophiles here that stayed lurking in other subs long after it got banned.
Lonelan ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:49:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I have brought peace, justice, and removed Nazis from my new social media website!
zh1K476tt9pq ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 19:37:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Why would I want reddit to be "free and open"? That's the dumbest idea ever. Hosting a sub like t_d is ethically completely wrong and reddit has no obligation to do that anyway. E.g. if you own a restaurant then you don't have to rent it out to a bunch of neo nazis to hold a rally there either. I assume you are American and therefore pretty brainwashed about the whole "unlimited free speech" bullshit. But anyone that understands history knows that you don't show tolerance towards fascists. It's ridiculously naive and ignorant.
I mean how ignorant do you have to be to argue for free speech for a sub like t_d when they specifically ban free speech. And I am not even talking about hate speech or trolling or anything like that. They literally have rules that anyone that says anything negative about Trump will get banned. Honestly, you either learned nothing about WW2 or you are the definition of ignorance if you think we should tolerate those people.
xander_man ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:26:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak outโ Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak outโ Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak outโ Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for meโand there was no one left to speak for me.
[deleted] ยท 83 points ยท Posted at 16:42:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
No it's not. It's like a bookstore selling pro-Trump books.
If you don't like it don't buy it.
Most of the political books are anti-Trump.
evilfetus01 ยท 47 points ยท Posted at 17:35:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But I hate that other people can buy it REEEEEE
WarlockSyno ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:17:17 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But isn't it like a bookstore that has rules against selling books that contain overt racism, but then turns a blind eye to this one book section while all the rest are thrown out?
Konree ยท 79 points ยท Posted at 17:00:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Comparing Donald Trump fanboys to fucking Nazis is scummish
Sincerely, a Pole
evilfetus01 ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 17:43:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Based Pole, how goes it? Keep Poland Great.
Ekaros ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 20:48:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Then again Americans truly loved commies tthen. And now want to emulate them.
BigTimStrangeX ยท 217 points ยท Posted at 14:20:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Meanwhile I'm just sitting here having filtered their subreddit from my feed ages ago like a rational adult and don't spend an second of my time mining salt over how people on that subreddit decide to waste their time.
bat_mayn ยท 43 points ยท Posted at 16:31:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
To them it's about sanitizing reddit so they can stop other people from viewing things they don't want them to view.
zh1K476tt9pq ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 19:46:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"We must show tolerance for fascists". Seriously, it's like no American has learned anything from WW2.
Swaki ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 01:38:38 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But this makes you the fascist...
unovachamp ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:27:55 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No. Fascism has more nuance than you and others here seem to think.
Swaki ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:52:09 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I agree, but I was using his own logic against him.
illbashyereadinm8 ยท 83 points ยท Posted at 15:54:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Are you talking about r/politics or the trump sub? Because I've never ever seen the trump sub come up on the front page, pretty sure its a universal hate on it circlejerk at this point.
evilfetus01 ยท 36 points ยท Posted at 17:26:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit banned it from anyone who isn't subscribed from seeing it on /r/all or front page.
Razzal ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 18:06:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It has been disallowed from the front page. Back when it was new, it was all over the front page of all. Reddit tired of it and made it to where that could not happen.
illbashyereadinm8 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 19:01:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
When was this? We're plagued by r/politics r/pics and various other mainstream subreddits posting whatever anything from a tv news site to buzzfeed cooks up about Trump bs every day.
AintAintAWord ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:29:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I wanna say maybe a year ago? They would vote brigade the shit out of every post in that sub to get it to /r/all so for a while that's pretty much all you'd see. It was a mess. I will say that's one administrative decision in recent history that reddit got right.
Elufson ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:43:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Upvoting your own posts is vote brigading. Alright.
AFatDarthVader ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:27:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Don't be obtuse, you know he means vote manipulation.
mkosmo ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 13:48:32 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean they're manipulating the vote.
AFatDarthVader ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:01:47 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Why would you assume that's why I think it's manipulation?
Elufson ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 08:55:28 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I know what he means. And I don't think its vote manipulation.
mkosmo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:47:43 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Anybody else find it amusing that a reddit democracy was at work through voting and the admins shut it down like Stalin?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:26:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It used to be on /r/all literally everyday. Not sure how much you actually look at that though.
illbashyereadinm8 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:07:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Guess its subjective then. Regardless, sometimes i feel as though i should just filter out us politics as I feel like i know nothing more than the average person exposed to TV news.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:10:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm fairly certain it got filtered out by the newer algorithms that other comments are referring to, and yeah if you don't enjoy seeing politics just filter them out.
illbashyereadinm8 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:03:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I don't mind general stuff but at this point its just clickbait
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:52:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But how can you dramatize Reddit then?
zh1K476tt9pq ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 19:47:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I don't see how filtering solves anything. Reddit provides a platform to far right extremists. Just because you decided to ignore doesn't mean it's okay or a good thing.
BigTimStrangeX ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:12:32 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This website is a platform full of far-left extremists as well and everyone serms to be able to ignore them just fine.
And I'm fine with that. I don't like seeing extremist views on any side but I also know all kicking them will do is make people that don't like them feel good. It solves nothing outside of that.
badgeringthewitness ยท 976 points ยท Posted at 13:05:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
I don't visit T_D, so I don't know if what they do rises from distasteful to illegal content, but this seems beside the point.
If reddit hosted content is all under the same tent (as with a Target store with a distasteful section), then this eliminates the opportunity for partnerships with virtually all advertisers because of reddit's porn (and other) content.
As far as I know, all of reddit's porn content is legal, but there are plenty of advertisers who would nevertheless find it distasteful, and be risk adverse to promoting major brands on a platform that hosts that sort of content.
The big question for reddit, youtube, and others... is how much it needs to sanitize its content to please advertisers and consumers/creators.
I hate Nazis as much as the next guy, but over-reliance on /r/stopadvertising's argument leads to a slippery slope.
Edit: For everyone insisting that I should visit T_D and see for myself that it is a Nazi-free utopia of free speech, please don't bother. All other comments are welcome, especially from those interested in how reddit can become advertiser-friendly but also avoid steering the content into an internet version of lame network TV.
Edit 2: Also, please stop trying to convince me just how much T_D deserves to be banned. Rightly or wrongly, my assumption is that as long as T_D isn't posting illegal content, the notion of distasteful is entirely subjective. But the greater point of my comment asks: do we want advertisers to determine the acceptability of content on reddit? I realize that approaching this question pragmatically is difficult, but arguing that T_D is angelic/demonic misses the point I'm trying to make, and the conversation I think we need to have.
KingofAlba ยท 185 points ยท Posted at 13:11:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It wouldn't surprise me if Reddit tries to make a clearer distinction between "regular" reddit and porn reddit. Separate them and have regular ads and porn ads. Might even need a different account to view them.
badgeringthewitness ยท 191 points ยท Posted at 13:28:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm old enough to remember going to video stores in the 1980's, where all of the "family-friendly" new releases would be in the main part of the store, and then behind a curtain in the back of the store, there would be a "must be 18 to enter" section for "adult movies."
It's worth noting that (as far as I know) once nationwide corporate chains took over the video tape/DVD rental market, these "adult" sections disappeared.
Grooviemann1 ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 14:13:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Video Update was a fairly large chain in my area and they had an adult section up until they went out of business. I don't believe Blockbuster (where I worked for four years) or Hollywood Video ever had adult sections and I think a mom and pop shop up the road from me that's miraculously still in business still has an adult section.
stekky75 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:12:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
My Hollywood video had an adult video back room. Never seen one in a Blockbuster though.
eleventwentyfourteen ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:13:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I remember a Blockbuster that had one.
AerThreepwood ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:20:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Video Warehouse still had some adult movies but they were all goofy softcore shit like "Gladiator Eroticus".
ratshack ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:11:07 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
also, once those chains (Blockbuster) got big enough they started getting "special" censored/edited versions of some regular movies because think of the children or some stupid excuse.
FuckYouTomCotton ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:53:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Back when X rated and XXX rated actually meant something.
soik90 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:30:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
My local video store still had one of those rooms in 2008.
Zestyclose_Session ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 13:57:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well if I walk into a music store i sure as hell not going there to buy a skrewdriver album, but if they have cardboard cutouts of the band members and are promoting their new album I'm gonna wonder what the fuck is wrong with the people running this place.
way2lazy2care ยท 36 points ยท Posted at 13:49:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There's a nsfw filter option already. Splitting the site would just turn the porn/nsfw reddit into another youporn.
thesil3nced ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 14:17:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There's also the option to block subs you don't like, such as T_D
Fullwit ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 14:54:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Redditors don't like simple solutions
trentv4 ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 15:38:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Its a little more difficult sometimes. At least the donald stays in its one subreddit - my filter list is getting pretty long for anti-trump subs which keep appearing and posting the same shit.
ChryslerDodgeJeep ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 16:17:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Except they don't. The user-base tends to leak out across reddit and stir up shit in comment threads. Go ask mods of small or medium sized subs how many times in the past year they've had to lock threads on a seemingly uncontroversial topic and where those provocateurs come from and you'll find a correlation.
You also don't see it because the community/mods in more generic areas like the various "/ask" or "/pic" subs nip it in the bud quickly. Just browse voat for a bit to see an example of this in action.
BoogieOrBogey ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 15:34:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Blocking T_D only stops the content from being seen on an individual level, it doesn't stop the users posting in other subs or their community breaking site rules. That and the whole radicalization aspect from being seen as a legit community. When it's a site wide problem, there needs to be a site wide solution. Like banning the sub.
Fullwit ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:36:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
If you want to put an end to radicalization , you'd have to shut down Reddit completely or, at the very least, delete all subs and just make it one, unfiltered mess. Being in a group of likeminded individuals with cause app of the individuals will lead too the radicalization of all of those individuals' views. It's a psychological phenomenon. I can't remember the name right now, but I'll edit this comment when I can find it.
Edit: group polarization
hothatchmama ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:54:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Usually referred to as hive mind. Get enough together, they all start thinking alike.
Fullwit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:59:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, I'm talking about when a bunch of moderates who think the same thing get together and radicalize themselves
BoogieOrBogey ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 18:17:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well that's just pure hyperbole, it's pretty easy to see which subs have a radicalizing effect on their users. To say all of Reddit has that effect because of the website design sounds like you're trying to make T_D seem normal. It's not, other subs don't get people worked up enough to go kill their family or attack pizza shops to find a child trafficking ring. Plus we know that T_D has been used by foreign agents to push propaganda and lies specifically designed to radicallize users.
xmindallas ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:14:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And on Bacon Reader at least, it's turned on by default.
way2lazy2care ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:22:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think it's a user setting for the website that's turned on by default for everybody regardless of what you're using to view.
Cronus6 ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 15:49:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Oh I think (if we assume Reddit wants to go "mainstream" and attract "normal" user like Facebook etc.) the porn will either have to go completely or users will have to provide real age verification to access those parts of the sites.
Once you attach your real identity to your profile it's much for attractive to advertisers...
Personally, I think the current round of bans (guns,beer,tobacco) is just the beginning. I do not however see them going after politics or religion.
kroxywuff ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 14:22:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I just want there to be a way to mass hide the porn subs. I want to be able to see some of the content in r/WTF and other subreddits where NSFW content isn't porn (mostly) while at the same time not swiping past r/girlwithsocksonandateasetinthebackgroundalsogreendrapes pictures in the first 100 posts on r/all. It gets even worse as you go down and it feels like these super oddly specific subs are made daily and they always have near 200k subscribers.
It used to be so much worse when every spoiler was tagged as NSFW. Couldn't look at a thread about a TV show without risking a porn swipe if you forgot to turn the filter back on.
Just make a feature where a sub can turn on "this is basically porn" and let me toggle that off. If a porn sub doesn't check the box then shut it down or check it for them after reports.
otarru ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:10:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You've just described /r/popular.
Peach_Muffin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:20:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How does that sub work anyway
otarru ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:53:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's the new default reddit where people without accounts are automatically redirected. Like /r/all except without NSFW content, politics (most controversially /r/The_Donald doesn't show up), and without some more niche subs that usually get into hot like sports team subs or certain games. I was sceptical at first but I actually prefer the end result, and if I want something different I can always browse /r/all.
It's been the default for about a year IIRC.
Fullwit ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:58:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Just use your front page and subscribe to all the good subs you find as time goes on. I always forget there is an all page becaude of how little I use it, it's so random and half of it is uninteresting to me.
eleventwentyfourteen ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:14:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The problem with this is doing that makes it harder to find new stuff.
Fullwit ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:25:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I always find links to new subs in comments, but I see what you're saying.
Tylorw09 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:50:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I already have an alt just for it so this wouldnโt be a problem for me.
In fact I think it would be a smart thing for Reddit to do.
I just wish they would bring back the account quick swap button like they had in the old mobile app design.
I hate when developers take away functionality.
Even worse, they said that it wasnโt even really a feature and one guy just put it in there.
Thatโs pathetic to hear they donโt know exactly what is in their app and keep a complete feature list.
thewimsey ยท 298 points ยท Posted at 14:08:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I hate Nazis and I hate T_D. But what I hate even more are people sanitizing the Nazis by comparing T_D to them.
Making stupid comparisons like that hurts the argument and downplays how evil the Nazis actually were.
uberdaveyj ยท 86 points ยท Posted at 15:27:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I have actually been caused a Nazi for stating this opinion. I despair.
rafaelloaa ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 19:54:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Assuming you mean "called a Nazi"?
And to your point, I think the best thing to call t_D is "wannabe nazis".
collinch ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 20:12:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
We could call them "neo-nazis" to shorten it.
uberdaveyj ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:58:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Neo-fascist is the word we should apply to them if they are indeed acting like fascists. Apologies for the mistake, i was using a mobile and didn't really proofread.
Literally_A_Shill ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 21:23:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They literally advertised a Nazi rally. In a thread pinned to the top of their page by the mods.
[deleted] ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 17:01:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There are actual Nazis on T_D though, like others have said in this thread they advertised for the Charlottesville rally that had, you know, actual Nazis marching in it.
Hyndis ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:39:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How many, though? I mean really, how many? They had to fly in white supremacists from across the country to bulk up their numbers, and even then they were pathetically outnumbered.
In a country of 320 million there might be, perhaps, thousands of Nazis. Even if every single one of them lived in Florida and they all voted every time there are so few of them they'd still struggle to make a difference.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:52:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think any "actual nazis" use Reddit since the ones who are left are absolutely ancient. I think you mean neo nazis, which is a whole different group of people that don't have tanks or planes and buy tiki torches at Wal-Mart.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:23:23 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Thereโs a subreddit called /r/debatefascism which is supposedly for people curious about fascism to come and ask questions to real, self-identifying fascists. Super weird and interesting to poke around there if youโve got some free time.
magistrate101 ยท -35 points ยท Posted at 15:22:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There are literal neo-nazis in there though
Falco98 ยท 56 points ยท Posted at 15:29:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And this means what exactly? I bet there were members of the KKK who liked the Andy Griffith show, too, but that doesn't mean the show should be conflated with the KKK.
I hate T_D as much as most people here, but /u/thewimsey's point remains that conflation of the two is undercutting and watering down the evilness of Nazis.
twentyonegorillas ยท 48 points ยท Posted at 15:34:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
a 'literal neo-nazi' has probably posted here before, doesn't make the subreddit a nazi subreddit.
robustability ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 20:06:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
People who say this fail to appreciate the subtleties of the argument. No, alt-right white nationalists are not literal genocidal Nazis. But there are many echoes of the past in the present. When we say โthose who fail to study history are doomed to repeat itโ this is exactly what we are talking about.
To say that you hate people who are pointing out similarities between the past and the present, and that you think they are stupid, makes it sound like you arenโt thinking about this issue past the surface level. The Nazis and Fascists and Communists didnโt steal power. They werenโt military dictatorships or coups. They all had popular support and were even voted in legally. You canโt deny the similarities. Many serious academics have pointed them out.
For all his flaws, I donโt think Trump is planning to destroy the constitution. But his assaults on some of our institutions- the FBI, the credibility of our elections, the rights of states and cities to set their own laws- is concerning and if allowed to stand will set us down a darker path for whatever is to follow.
JimmyDeSanta420 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:31:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Like when the violent extreme left helped radicalize the Germans into supporting the Nazi party?
Anachronym ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:43:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"it's not our fault, the left made us systematically murder millions of Jews!"
JimmyDeSanta420 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:00:31 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
When a group is doing horrible things in the name of their ideology, that has a tendency to push moderate people towards an opposite ideology.
For example, in the US in the 1960's, when people saw on the evening news the horrible treatment that civil rights protesters were receiving, that pushed them away from the right and towards the left.
You can also see that as an after-effect of the Nazis themselves from how far to the left Germany has come in the decades since WWII, even when half of their country was part of the USSR for a significant portion of that.
Almost no one who supported the Nazis at the start had any idea of what they would wind up doing by the end (not even the Nazis themselves; their original plan was to expel the Jews from their territory). Their opposition to extreme left parties gave them support, which eventually gave them power, which allowed them to do the horrible things we all know them for.
That said, you had to reach pretty far for that nugget. I didn't even think it was physically possible for someone to get that much of their own arm up their own ass.
Autokrat ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:44:36 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The right in germany was the quintessential authoritarian militarist. They needed no goading or provocation to use force, and had no qualms summarily executing leftists in the sparticist uprising. The violence by the left has always been actuated by actions from the right. If trade unions, the right to assembly, and the right to petition had been respected they never would have resorted to violence. You're as ignorant as they come if you think violence and the use of force isn't a bedrock of conservatism.
It's like you have no self awareness and realize the rise of a violent left was due to the oppression from the right, who had and continues to have a disproportionate amount of power due to their tendency to resort to violence.
Or do you think trade unions in the United States got violent because they wanted to cause chaos and not because they wanted to stop being exploited ?
JimmyDeSanta420 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:38:41 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
tl;dr: Political Manichaeism. Got it.
So then what was Mr. Upper-Middle-Class-White-Male-Professor-with-a-Bikelock's excuse?
robustability ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:20:45 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is silly, twisted logic. Why were Northers anti slavery while the southerners who saw the brutality of slavery every day supported it? Why isnโt Russia a free and open society after the brutality of the Soviet Union? Why donโt the Japanese accept immigrants after everyone they killed during the war?
More like people who are already racists will latch onto anyone on the other side to blame so they can justify their shitty opinions to themselves. Look at you. You show me a video of one left wing protestor whacking a guy with a lock and think that makes him a Nazi. Did you forget about the actual Nazi who ran over and killed a woman a few months ago? Who was protesting the removal of confederate statues? How does that not give you massive cognitive dissonance? The answer is, you donโt give a shit about the actions of the protestors, you just want to point out bad individuals on the other side so you wonโt feel bad about yourself. People who can lie to themselves this well canโt be convinced anyway.
JimmyDeSanta420 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:31:33 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
People are masters at justifying their own bad actions. I'm sure that Mr. Upper-Middle-Class White Male Professor with a Bikelock thought that he was the epitome of "Bash the Fash" in that moment.
They're nowhere near what we would consider free and open, but they are moreso than they were under the USSR. It doesn't help that many of those in positions of power in the USSR stuck around in positions of power in the Russian Federation.
Yes, human nature is certainly shitty.
No, I think he's a terrible person who committed unjustified violence for his ideology.
No, I think he's a terrible person who committed unjustified violence for his ideology.
Seeing horrible people on both sides? Not sure.
That's a lot of words you're trying to cram into my mouth without my consent.
The other thing is, who are you to assume what side I'm on? I lean fairly left, but at this point, I'm just sitting here, hoping that some of these idiots who claim to share my beliefs will shut up, stop hitting people and stop telling me and people like me that we're terrible people for things that we can't help.
robustability ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 00:57:04 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What is this link? Did you just show me a video of an attack at a protest and use that as proof that the left caused the holocaust? Are you deranged?
JimmyDeSanta420 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:43:03 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If that's what you got from what I posted, I'm not sure you can say I'm the deranged one.
robustability ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:44:23 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I read your other post too where you lay it out pretty clearly. Good comeback though.
LandgraveCustoms ยท -31 points ยท Posted at 15:30:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Well, this isn't a bad point. Problem is, before the Nazis were "the Nazis", they were just the National Socialist Party, a quizzically vocal section of the population that endorsed all manner of hatred based on their own poverty and insecurities and the rhetoric of a charismatic leader who played to their fantasies of being oppressed and downtrodden at the expense of less powerful groups. It was essentially just historical happenstance that the National Socialist Party was allowed to become The Nazis.
Or. put more directly, the people of T_D aren't as bad as the Nazis, but they are veering dangerously close to being as bad as the people who BECAME the Nazis, and they're moving at a much faster pace than the National Socialist Party ever did. If they don't become the same level of threat, it may well have nothing to do with their intentions, so much as it has to do with the environment that their particular movement is gestating in, i.e. an environment where there is severe pushback instead of abject apathy.
EDIT: I respect your right and desire to downvote me, but I'd like to know why. Do you disagree with my reading of history? Do you disagree with my characterization of Trump Supporters and the alt right? Or are you reflexively down-voting because you disagree with me but you're not sure why and you realize that maybe you don't actually have a good reason and maybe that scares you a little so you should downvote the the culprit? I don't mind any of those responses but I do want to hear them.
[deleted] ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 17:01:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I will answer, you deserve that. You claim I am as bad as someone who became a nazi. Can you quantify that for me please? Can you list the ways you know me, have interacted with me, and feel justified enough to make that claim?
And when you have finished listing your interactions with me, can you lay out your interactions with the other 590k subscribers? In this way we can see how you can make the comparison between us, and the 30 odd million men and women who became nazis.
In short, you know none of us. You seem to know very little beyond nazis are bad, and trump is bad, therefore they are the same, and therefore anyone who supports trump must also be a nazi. As a line of logic, its weak, it makes you look foolish, and you deserve the down votes for your ignorance and lack of common sense
LandgraveCustoms ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 17:19:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks for the answer.
"You claim I am as bad as someone who became a nazi". No. I claim that as a group, the mentality is similar. Individuals rarely mirror exactly the zeitgeist of their particular group; it's a compromise one makes when joining a group (dems/libs included by the way).
"Can you quantify that for me please? Can you list the ways you know me, have interacted with me, and feel justified enough to make that claim?". As stated, no individual is going to display all of the traits- that's the danger of mob mentality in general. However, your ability to overlook so much of Trump's... Trumpishness belies a tacit complicity in it. You are okay with antiglobalism and economic isolationism. You are okay with gun rights being unaltered or expanded. You are okay with the profiling of Muslims and Mexicans regardless of immigrant status. You are okay with filling the White House with non-politicians in an attempt to drain the swamp. You might notice, none of those things are inherently bad at all; it's just opinion up to this point. BUT. You are okay with allegations of adultery. You are okay with breaking apart immigrant families for nebulous and badly-researched reasons. You are okay with intentionally distancing ourselves from our historical military allies, and even antagonizing them. You are okay with blatant racism and sexism. You are okay with nepotism and pay-to-pay politics. You are okay with the United States being downgraded financially and positionally on the world stage. Now, I'm not saying you SUPPORT any of it, merely that you are OKAY with it. You won't stop it, as long as you still get your guy in office. And that's a very, very dangerous place to be. That's the Apathy I mentioned in my post.
For these very reasons, I don't need to know everyone in your subgroup individually. I know that they are complacent to those wrongs. I know that they can justify one or two or ten scandals in the name of the "greater good". I know that they will dismiss or attack me for offering a logical counterpoint because I have been framed as the Enemy and not the Debate Opponent. Just as you did in your last paragraph (though, not as harshly as some, so, thanks for that).
And before you go spouting that I don't know what I'm talking about: I'm a WWII artifacts reseller and collection curator. I am a history teacher. I am the son of the son of a Birkenau Death Camp survivor. And I'm not saying that "nazis are bad, and trump is bad, therefore they are the same". I'm saying that proto-Nazis used a very specific type of social manipulation involving the de-legitimizing of the media, control of political message, disenfranchisement of supposed out-groups, unification under a charismatic leader, very specific talking point about a country returning to a state of power, the eradication of immigrants, the deletion of political opponents from places of influence, and iconography as political might. Whether you believe in my line of thought or not, these are the strategies that Hitler used, and they are the strategies that Trump uses, and you and all of the other Trump voters are complicit in that. Every last one. Sorry if that sounds harsh but, well... it's true, man.
[deleted] ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 17:42:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You don't have to personally interact with every member of a political community to make a judgment about the views of said community.
Cutapotamus ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:52:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You don't, but we typically call that discrimination.
[deleted] ยท -14 points ยท Posted at 17:42:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They're downvoting you because they are mouth-breathing nazi apologists who can't bear the thought that brown people aren't to blame for their problems.
LandgraveCustoms ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:50:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
While I do honestly appreciate the support from you, rhetoric like this is incendiary and counterproductive ultimately. Remember, dividing the nation is part of the strategy. Pissing off liberals and Democrats and frankly anyone who isn't a Trump supporter and then having them react in a violent dramatic way just reinforces how put upon and oppressed and reviled they supposedly are, which increases the strength of a demagogue like Trump. Be firm in your beliefs, but do not resort to ad hominem attack. It just proves that we are the holier than thou elitist dicks that they think we are.
caninehere ยท -18 points ยท Posted at 15:47:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Thing is, the Nazis didn't start out by gassing Jews en masse. It was a slow rise that took over a decade and was borne out of economic trials of the time.
When people compare T_D to the Nazis, they aren't saying these people are as bad as the Nazis, but that they have been brainwashed in the same manner and unanimously support their "God Emperor" the same way the Nazis did. As they become more vocal, if there is no resistance to their power, then it is entirely possible they take a similar path.
aManPerson ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 17:23:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
the context is modern. people who like T_D also seem to be much in favor of current alt-right political things, which, is a modern re-birth of nazism. yes, current alt-right stuff is not as bad as the german nazi's were, but would it be better if we waited until the alt-right started a holocaust against mexicans before we start comparing them?
after all, alt-right was a "name branding change" to make it seem more acceptable.
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 17:27:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
aManPerson ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 17:30:47 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
well, what about them chanting "jew will not replace us" at the charlottesville protest? or the fact that they can be seen walking around with similar red arm bands.
i mean, are you really drawing the line at "unless they're in the mid 1940's, killing jewish people for fun, they're not nazis".
are you really just trying to categorize them and are only fine to say they are "facist jerks", but not actual ww2 nazis?
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 17:33:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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SnideJaden ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:48:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Cognitive dissonance: Bashing people for islamaphobia(Nazi), stereotyping all islams(conservatives) based on actions of the few extremely evil. Even the so called good ones harbor and encourage the bad ones.
aManPerson ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 17:44:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
when they agree on most things, to me, they are the same bad group of people. if i had to rate them on a scale of terrible, (A+ being the worst), i'd rate the charlottesville marchers as A- and average T_D as a solid B. but those are both very terrible to me. it doesn't help me at all to draw a clear difference between them.
InvaderChin ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 18:06:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Here's a guy who hasn't heard of Charlottesville.
InTheWildBlueYonder ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:11:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Oh wow, nazis took over a peaceful event and made it shitty. Please tell me how many times a peaceful leftest protest was ruined by anarchist/Antifia.
InvaderChin ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 23:14:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If you think that's something that's actually happened, you can look for your own sources. I'm not your errand boy.
Fair Warning: You're going to have to put in a LOT of mental gymnastics and you're likely just going to make yourself look like even more of a basket case than you already have.
InTheWildBlueYonder ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:25:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
HAHAIHAHAHAHA
Do you honestly believe that leftest protest haven't been taken over by people who just want to cause chaos? If that is the case, i have an island i want to sell you. Cash upfront.
InvaderChin ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:32:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You have provided exactly zero evidence to support that theory. Who are you, exactly, that I should take you at your word (besides a privileged white kid coasting through state university on mommy & daddy's dime)?
T3hSwagman ยท -38 points ยท Posted at 15:26:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Pre war Nazis were T_D though. Youโre looking at them after they claimed power and fully realized their rhetoric. Let me ask you this. Would you be comfortable if T_D was creating laws and policy for America?
blazershorts ยท 38 points ยท Posted at 15:42:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Would you be comfortable if ANY subreddit was creating laws and policy for America?
chazzing ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 15:57:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. What a stupid fucking question.
caninehere ยท -14 points ยท Posted at 15:49:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If /r/aww ran the country I would be pretty happy as a Canadian to be neighbor to a country full of cute puppies.
Certainly better than living next to the flaming shithole garbage fire that is the US right now.
grumpyoldham ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:18:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
As a Canadian, none of us are in any fucking position to criticize the leader of another nation.
Or have you forgotten about our permanently-vacationing terrorist-schmoozing international embarrassment and his cabinet of blatantly corrupt vacuous sycophants?
caninehere ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 19:52:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm gonna go ahead and guess that you're a dedicated poster to /r/metacanada and all-around pleasant person.
T3hSwagman ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 16:31:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Of course not. But that is considerably more true of the extremism ones. Point is that Nazi germany was if T_D got the opportunity to run the country.
JackBond1234 ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 17:46:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Now replace "Nazi" with "racist, sexist homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic, islamophobic"
beetnemesis ยท 139 points ยท Posted at 13:26:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think the issue is that reddit is trying to have it both ways:
Oh we are a bastion of Free Speech, we can't delete T_D, we may not agree but will defend to the death their right to speech, etc
Oh T_D is gross and offensive, we totally get it, here let's make sure they don't show up on our front page, and make sure advertisers aren't affiliated with such filth
Porn subs are their own thing, clearly labeled, and generally only a few even come close to being controversial
badgeringthewitness ยท 73 points ยท Posted at 13:36:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
While I personally agree with your comment, it's worth noting that there is a reason Target, Walmart, Bed, Bath, and Beyond, etc... don't sell porn in their stores (beyond obvious economic reasons).
The reason is there are a lot of people who continue to think all porn is distasteful and should be seen as a public health crisis.
butt-guy ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 13:54:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Not saying that I agree with it being a public health crisis (people should be able to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others), but porn addiction is a real thing.
filbert13 ยท 33 points ยท Posted at 14:49:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, but addiction to almost anything is real, especially if it provides enjoyment. Being a gamer I seen some friends throw away years of their life to an MMO. Playing board games and when I used to play magic I seen other people spend well beyond their means. Some people I watch sports with end up making it almost about their life where they put their fandom above family enjoyment.
So yeah you can be addicted to porn, but I think that is just anyone with an addictive personality. They will just substitute porn for something else unless they learn how to manage addiction.
Raneados ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:01:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You can form a detrimental habit from basically anything.
loctopode ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:30:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There's people addicted to a wide range of things. Some people are addicted to Reddit, but that doesn't mean we should shut it down.
T3hSwagman ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:24:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think the issue heโs saying that they are clearly marked as not being a place for those that are a bit more sensitive to sex are welcome.
I donโt see T_D having a big warning saying โCasual white nationalism and varying levels of racismโ.
ominousgraycat ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:45:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
While I am generally against most content produced by T_D, I don't think those points are necessarily contradictory. Having free speech does not mean that everyone has to listen to your speech. Reddit has made it easier not to listen to certain voices which most people do not want to hear; that's not a restriction of free speech, but an extension of it.
caninehere ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:44:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
We're a bastion of free speech, but reddit has rules that supposedly are supposed to be enforced, rules that T_D breaks constantly. The mods ban a few posts and point the admins to them as evidence that they heavily moderate the subreddit and are controlling the discourse so that it doesn't break rules, and the admins are happy with the extra traffic that comes from the subreddit so they look the other way.
Like you said, porn subs are clearly labeled and don't break rules generally. There are plenty that have been banned (for example, /r/deepfakes recently).
The fact of the matter is that the admins make rules as they like and they enforce them as they like. There are multitudes of subreddits that currently exist that break rules and are allowed to proliferate. Just a while ago on a post complaining about T_D a user listed dozens of other subreddits that also break rules - and reddit banned a bunch of them but left T_D alone.
When a subreddit is gross and offensive, I don't see any reason to ban it. In that case, it's a move against free speech. When a subreddit actively gathers users to brigade and harass others both on and off reddit, is used to push extremist views, and has even fostered terrorists, that's a way fucking different story. "Free speech" doesn't mean you should be able to incite hatred towards others.
beetnemesis ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:58:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm kind of sad deepfakes was banned before I could poke around in it. I mean, I get it, but at the same time what a futuristic, cyberpunk dystopian way to masturbate!
caninehere ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:34:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm sure you can still find that stuff out there somewhere. I saw the sub and the community around it was actually really excited about the technology and discussed it thoroughly in between j/o seshes.
I can't remember but I think there were two subs established, one for porn and one for the tech, and I can't remember if both got banned... But I read a thing on how the program worked and it was pretty neat and had other fun applications (like putting Nicolas Cage into every movie).
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:41:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
point out to me how t_d is gross and offensive.
Jasontheperson ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:56:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The constant rule breaking and threats of violence for one.
TheManWhoPanders ยท 151 points ยท Posted at 13:57:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Literally none of the content there fits OP's description. He literally made a claim without evidence and everyone buys it because it fits their narrative.
pittsnoggle ยท 90 points ยท Posted at 14:54:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
On /r/bestof?! That's impossible.
[deleted] ยท 52 points ยท Posted at 15:13:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
MountRest ยท 33 points ยท Posted at 16:14:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This post and the post it was referencing were paid for by people who really want to see T_D destroyed, conflating them with literal Naziโs is batshit insane and a slippery slope to censoring anything and everything that doesnโt fit the โnarrativeโ on Reddit. The comparison of T_D being the Nazi section of a Target store is not at all a good comparison and after that breaks down itโs just more of the same talking points that would destroy this website if implemented. He just dressed it up in a shitty and not at all valid comparison.
Jasontheperson ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 16:58:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They do actually constantly break the rules though.
Esifex ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 20:14:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I mean they DID sticky and promote a rally called Unite The Right, where attendees marched with armbands and chanted 'Blood and Soil!' and killed a counter-protester by driving a car into a crowd, but no, they're really fine people, for realsies.
jumpinthedog ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:30:24 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Wasn't Charlottesville technically the night before the unite the right rally? If we are honest the white supremacists piggybacked on that rally and there isn't much the rest of the right could do. Especially with a rally called "unite the right" I don't think the average person would know it would have ws involved.
myrealopinionsfkyu ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 16:21:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Why does T_D see an incredibly high number of references to putting people in gas chambers?
Threatening to execute Soros by gas chamber?
Soros, again
Threatening to put undocumented immigrants in gas chambers?
"This day and age we are all Nazi's, and our gas chamber is the voting booth."
Threatening to toss someone who heckled Trump into a gas chamber
Gas chamber as punishment for kidnapping and assault
Threatening Obama with the gas chamber
More immigrant threats of gas chamber
Gassing gang members
Took me like, 30 seconds to Google search this stuff. I got this from the first 10 pages of the 5,000 results for Jew, Gas Chamber, and "(((".
Obviously a couple comments are not respective of the whole, but where do you draw the line? Why don't these comments appear in any liberal subreddits? There are only ~50 references to Jews in OurPresident, Liberal, Democrats, HillaryClinton, and BernieSanders combined, yet close to 6000 in T_D. Why is that?
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:41:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Because they're busy arguing in favor of eugenics and taking away democratic rights of people who think wrong, and calling all republicans as evil as nazis.
Yeah, they're not using the words "gas the jews", but they're just using more acceptable terms for the same concept: Getting rid of people with the "wrong" opinion.
You realize that the choice of words doesn't bother people when you're both chasing the same ideal, right?
Literally_A_Shill ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:25:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
He posted examples. Will you do the same or are you just making up stuff to win an argument?
GabeNisGreat ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:25:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There are loads on /r/ShitPoliticsSays, take a look at the top posts on that sub to see plenty of examples of left wing people calling for violence against conservatives or Trump supporters.
Example.
Literally_A_Shill ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:39:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Seems that most examples of "violence" get promptly removed in other subs. And the top things they are freaking out about seem pretty lame. I don't think getting banned for shitposting is the same as putting people in gas chambers.
myrealopinionsfkyu ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:44:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Holy shit, what a completely illogical leap! I fucking love watching you guys do mental hoolahoops to defend yourselves. It's impressive.
Link me to a single comment in favor of eugenics bud. A single comment.
I'll wait. :]
[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 17:09:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I have never posted on /r/t_d.
Good luck waiting. I'll be giving you the exact same treatment I gave /r/T_D - a block. Tรก.
myrealopinionsfkyu ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:10:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"I can't defend my point so I'll block you!"
The hypocrisy is strong.
never_listens ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:48:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Libruls are just as bad therefore it's okay to be a Nazi.
Kingflares ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:12:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Frequent T_D user here. We do it cause we find it amusing. It started off light, but we grew desensitized and needed darker and darker humor. In addition, once people started refering us and Pepe as hate symbols or Nazis, rather than apologizing and denying, its more entertaining to double down
Mikehideous ยท 306 points ยท Posted at 13:15:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
All we have to do is just ban everything that doesn't fit our narrative, then we can have all the free speech!
Anosognosia ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:17:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit is not your government. They sell a product and are under no obligation to protect anything that harms their bottomline.
Reddit is banning stuff that doesn't comply with reddit guidelines. T_D is the execption, probably because of it's size. In this case reddit decided they can earn more by having T_D around than banning it for the transgressions.
Trying to influence that in either direction is as free of speech as anything.
Tyler11223344 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:28:32 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Good thing freedom of speech isn't a legal concept then, eh?
Indenturedsavant ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:46:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Which is ironic, since this is exactly what t_d does.
[deleted] ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 16:29:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Totschlag ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 17:59:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit is already kind of doing that to subs that don't fit the narrative. The recent gun subreddit ban shows the path they want to take.
MurgleMcGurgle ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:03:45 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think they may have been pressured into deleted controlled goods trade subreddits. It reeks of someone abusing the law to put Reddit in a bad spot. Something like the ATF having a right to access Reddit's data because they [] technically [/] qualify as a gun show host or maybe allowing them to be fined for offering both firearms and alcohol in a certain state.
If it was political then I can't see why gunsmithing and brewing subreddits are still here.
Scruffmygruff ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 17:56:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What does LSC have to do with anything? Thatโs some nice whataboutism
Shandlar ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:05:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It has to do with the same radical behavior exists outside of T_D. LSC bans everyone and promotes an ideology that killed tens of millions of people 70 years ago. The parallels to T_D = Nazi is very strong.
Raghnaill ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 18:12:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Late stage capitalism and the donald users often talk about achieving their ends through violence, about killing their political opponents, and heck even killing/imprisoning people who don't agree with them.
It's not whataboutism, it's about keeping the nutters contained in their subreddits.
fredemu ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:26:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There's kinda a difference between the administrators banning any discussion on a topic, and a particular sub banning people that don't want to stay on topic from their particular corner of Reddit (particularly if they make it abundantly clear from the start).
If they pretended to be an impartial discussion space and then still banned all dissent, that would be one thing. But they make it clear that they're a pro-trump rally on the internet. That's what the forum is for. Someone coming in and posting something negative or disparaging in that context is off-topic.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:44:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I've said this before, but I'll post it again. As someone who frequents a lot of political subs, T_D included, they don't try to silence good debate and discussion. But they do silence flaming and trolls.
How many users on this site do you think go to that sub to have a respectful discussion?
The only sub I've found that is even somewhat decent at that is /r/neutralpolitics. But even that sub is incredibly biased, despite the name, it just encourages people from both sides to come so it actually encourages decent discussion.
What I don't understand though, why would you want that sub to allow people to come in and flame the user base?
T3hSwagman ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 15:09:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I get this is for the memes and free speech is one of the best things about America, but at the same time I understand why Germany has laws against hate speech.
Given the accountability we are seeing from the current administration, I really canโt help but wonder what protections we genuinely have against an actual Hitler-esque rise to power. Germany didnโt wake up one day and start rounding up Jewish citizens. It was a slow buildup going through proper channels gaining influence and power.
Imagine if Trump and the current GOP was in power during 9/11. What do you think the political landscape would have been? How do you think Trump would handle American citizens of middle eastern backgrounds?
vandaalen ยท 46 points ยท Posted at 16:10:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I am German.
This paints Hitler as some sort of overpowering seducer who managed to somehow persuade the innocent Germans into becoming these monsters. In reality, he just groomed the sapling that had already sprang. It's much too easy to reduce the evil that happened to one person.
In that sense, a law against "hate speech" helps exactly nothing. It is absolutely unsuited to deal with the kind of spirit that yields hate for other humans and only manages to achieve one thing - people just do not discuss these topics in public, but behind closed doors and curtains or "hinter vorgehaltener Hand", on the quiet.
On top of that it creates an atmosphere of "Now more than ever!" and causes people to stick even more together and rest absolutely assured, that they indeed are in the right.
Which is absolutely what is happening here right now.
This could have easily gone the other way in direction of communism though. Hitler just happened to provide a better perspective of security and calming down of the sometimes chaotic political circumstances in post WWI era.
I wish people would stop comparing Trump to Hitler. This is really an insult to everybody who suffered under the Nazis.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:17:22 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you. Trump=Hitler is probably the most irresponsible misuse of history with current usage, just ahead of revisionist history of the Confederacy.
T3hSwagman ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:27:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How is this so much different from the โeconomic anxietyโ middle class whites that are constantly being left behind?
And thatโs what I was illustrating with my 9/11 example. We tipped down one side of destroying privacy but we could have easily gone down another, much darker path.
Iโm not comparing Trump to Hitler in a genocidal maniac sense. Iโm comparing him in a magnetic personality sense. Trumps presidency is not normal. A lot of what you are saying is highlighting a lot of similarities to the people of pre war Germany. People are scared and want security. Iโm not saying Trump is going to start a holocaust. Iโm saying itโs very clear that the American people can be influenced to support a populist politician with an agenda that isnโt exactly clear. Put it this way. If Hitler was born an American citizen and could run for office todays political climate, do you see any brick walls in his way from becoming the same 1945 Hitler of history here in America?
I thought we had those brick walls in place but seeing the rise of Trump and the reaction of other politicians Iโm not so sure anymore.
vandaalen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:18:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's a problem of mind then and not persons, which is exactly what I think.
You need to deal with people's fears instead of telling them that everything is great the way it is and trying to silence them with newly found laws or - as is happening here in Germany, cannot speak about the US - ridcule them for them.
You need to seriously adress and discuss issues and you also need to acknowledge issues, where they are right.
A perfect example for not to handle those topics for instance is what happened here after the incidents on NYE here in Cologne, where I happen to live.
The only answer the left had was to belittle what happened and declaring it a problem of gender, denying every other factor that had or had not played with it, like the fact the home countries of the North African guys who assaulted and robbed women that night, have serious problems with incidents like this as well. Fingers were pointed at the Oktoberfest with a "German men aren't better", completely ignoring the fact that an incident like this is without example in Modern time Germany.
Police was even accused of racism the next year, because they acted and sorted out a couple of hundred guys of the same heritage, who explicitly travelled to the place it happened the year before.
And that's how it goes with everything here and then they start to wonder why "simple" people are starting to go on the streets and are getting even more afraid and angry on top, because all they see is the situation staying the same or even escalating further.
Everything is going downhill here and all the people hear is "Shut up. It's all good. Don't point at people. You are bad."
Let aside that the alternative you people had with Hillary Clinton looks even less appealing from over here.
KuntaStillSingle ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:32:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The Weimar republic which preceded Nazi Germany had very 'modern' anti-hate speech laws and they did nothing to stem the rise of the Nazi Party. A few Nazis were arrested by it but:
If you can take Hitler's word on anything mildly repressing the Nazis was exactly what fostered their rise to power, it would have been better to leave them be as a marginal party.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 16:10:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
dorkbork_in_NJ ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:33:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously. These same asshats watch Trumbo and condemn the U.S. government for trying to squelch what it saw as a dangerous idea: communism. It all boils down to trying to censor ideas that you personally don't like.
goboatmen ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 16:55:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There are other trump subs that no one cares about because the other subs aren't festering piles of shit that continually call for lynching those they disagree with.
mrjackspade ยท -19 points ยท Posted at 14:28:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
/r/stopadvertising is free speech, but I guess it only counts when it supports something you like, right?
panderingPenguin ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 14:57:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No one is saying that /r/stopadvertising should be banned or otherwise silenced, they're just saying their position is wrong.
[deleted] ยท -21 points ยท Posted at 15:11:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I tend not to worry about the people who earnestly think neonazis deserve a private subreddit in a private company. They're 1A idealist and generally don't have any clue how the Constitution or Its amendments actually work.
So they can say we're wrong, they just can't say it in our sub.
[deleted] ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 14:34:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Really sucks when their favourite "Citizens United" bites them doesn't it, lol.
We'll use our free speech to inform advertisers how their free speech is spent. It's the circle of
lifecapitalism.bigbc79 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:48:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How is Citizens United involved? This is a private company selling ad space to private companies. I donโt think anyoneโs trying to get the government to censor anything here.
[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 17:13:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Citizens United stated that a Private Company was able to use it's money to support or deny support of political figures under a protection from 1A. The ruling wasn't just about politics in general but laid out a standard that the way a company spends it's money is protected free speech.
bigbc79 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:47:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Right, but it's protected from the federal government (like all free speech). As far as I know, private companies can still choose what "speech" is allowed to be on their platforms. It's just the government that can't.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:01:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
We're dealing with Free Speech Idealists who don't actually think any speech anywhere should ever be stopped as that counts as censorship and censorship is bad.
Dlrlcktd ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 14:34:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Your argument sounds close to the one The Westboro Church used when they were protesting that funeral
[deleted] ยท -37 points ยท Posted at 13:55:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
hurr durr porn and believing in "white genocide" are the same thing.
TheManWhoPanders ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 13:58:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"Only the things I like should be protected by free speech!"
-Le educated liberal
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:06:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"Free Speech" as it applies here only relates to the government retribution.
If a group on Reddit thinks you're an asshole and wants to burn Reddit down by cutting their ad revenue because Reddit continues to provide a space for neo-nazis, that's not government retribution. That's literally a free market of ideas.
Feels pretty good being an educated liberal, I guess.
TheManWhoPanders ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 14:08:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Free speech is a principle, not just the law on the books. It's the very core of American philosophy, and reddit as well. The site was co-founded by one of the most ardent pro free speech advocates, Aaron Swartz.
It's idiots like you who understand nothing but feel the need to portray that ignorance for everyone.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:14:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Bullshit. Reddit has shut down plenty of subreddits for being assholes, and has rules around what content is allowed. It has no obligation to give you your white supremacist hidey-hole a safe space.
Reddit is a community. If the community writ-large engages in activism to make this a space that doesn't tolerate blatant white-supremacy and violence, then it would appear we're collectively showing your ilk the door and asking you to leave.
If reddit wants to keep making money - their primary goal, by the way - they should listen to the majority of their community. Reddit has no moral or philosophical obligation to host a propaganda machine that engages in racialized violence.
TheManWhoPanders ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:20:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Right, and T_D breaks none of those rules. In fact, by the admins own admission T_D users are unique in that they spend almost all their time in that sub and nowhere else on reddit.
You would have made an excellent Brownshirt or Redguard. It's quite amazing to see the parallels right now.
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 14:31:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
T_d calls for violence, brigades, and regularly breaks reddiquette. So, again, bullshit.
If you want to compare me to historical advocates for corrupt government ignoring the fact that you're literally coming from a subreddit purporting to solely support a corrupt President's cult of personality, please do. The irony is delicious.
TheManWhoPanders ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:29:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Go ahead, find examples. I'll wait.
Oh wait, you can't. Because you're full of shit.
T_D literally stripped all subreddit links to anywhere on reddit until very recently. You didn't know that of course, you just want to make shit up to fill your narrative.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:40:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Lmao - you guys literally had Charlottesville stickied. Y'all regularly post about violence, leave it up for a day or two, and then delete the threads to claim "Nuh uhs!" at the adults in the room.
T_D actively tries to game the system, and your sophistry doesn't do anything to hide it.
TheManWhoPanders ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:44:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Charlottesville had around 100 white supremacists, but over a thousand in total attendance. Not everyone there was a white supremacist.
It's amazing that something a third-grader can understand goes over the head of most liberals.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:01:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
hhhhmmmm
you are so transparent. sad.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:45:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
/u/TheManWhoPanders is here to bravely defend the_dildo. how dare you rain on his brigade parade. you should feel honored to read his regurgitated talking points that inhabit literally every post about donald trump in this sub /s
blamethemeta ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:55:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Calling for illegal immigrants to be deported isn't calling for violence
They don't even allow links to any other subreddits. Not even general links. They have set up automod to remove any comment linking to Reddit, aside to T_D itself.
Are there subreddits dedicated to brigading? Yes, including /r/bestof, the sub we're on. But T_D isn't one.
Just vague enough to make it impossible to prove impossible.
Just because you declare something doesn't make it so
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:04:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Bruh y'all literally had Charlottesville pinned until one of your tiki-torch-whites drove into a crowd. You can duck/Dodge/lie/twist all you want.
blamethemeta ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:23:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Charlottesville wasn't presented to anyone as a white supremacist rally. Just a protest of another protest. Hindsight is 20/20, and foresight isn't.
Also, "bruh" makes you sound like a moron.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:30:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
First things first: you post in T_D, so let's not go on a name calling spree. Surely your dictionary of the "best" words can provide something with a little more bigliness behind it.
Charlottesville was absolutely a white supremacist rally. It's why their permit wasn't granted the first time around, and had to be appealed on first amendment grounds (so obviously the sky isn't falling on your 1st amendment rights). It was championed and keynoted by white supremacists like Richard Spencer. The tiki-torch procession was meant to evoke imagery from early German nationalist marches. The participants chanted "blood and soil."
STOP. LYING. You piece of fucking trash.
blamethemeta ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:01:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I have never posted on T_D. I've lurked on their discussion sub, but a T_D user I am not.
And do I really have to copy and paste from my previous comment? The mods weren't infallible, sure, but white supremacist supporters, they aren't.
Sweet_Baby_Cheezus ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:14:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Lol, is that why the Donald bans everyone who even slightly disagrees with the president? Because of all that extra free speech floating around?
TheManWhoPanders ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:22:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There is quite a large amount of conversation to be had there. You wouldn't know because like most anti-TD people you've never actually visited the sub.
Thanks to reddit's democratic upvote system and the overwhelming liberal presence here, the mods need to curate anti-Trump content to keep the sub from devolving into an anti-Trump one. No different than a WWE sub curating anti-WWE content.
Sweet_Baby_Cheezus ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:27:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah they curated the hell out of all those supporters who felt the president betrayed them by signing the latest budget bill.
Can't let the sub devolve into an anti-trump one by allowing his most hard-core supporters to discuss their opposition to a thing the president is doing.
Bascome ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:00:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The correct sub for discussing issues with Trump supporters is not T_D it is r/AskThe_Donald .
Perhaps you would get better results if you went to the correct sub instead of crying victim by doing the wrong thing in the wrong sub.
T_D is a rally sub for Donald supporters, why would you try to bring up anti Donald issues there when there is a perfectly reasonable place to discuss those things already?
Sweet_Baby_Cheezus ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:27:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I was only talking about the president's most hard-core supporters, the one's that campaigned for him, who donated money for him, who spent their time celebrating him on The_Donald, who are now banned because they disagreed with him signing the budget bill.
Everyone keeps assuming that I'm mad in any way shape or form about their policy of banning all disagreement. I'm absolutely not. It makes my day when the sub throws its users under the bus (or do you guys prefer the train?).
And I get that you have to have T_D apologetics lest you end up on the banned list too, but it's hilarious to me to watch you guys scream how much you care about free speech while happily spending your time on a subreddit that will ban you for bringing up bump stocks, or Goldman Sachs bankers, or non-interventionism, or the budget bill, or marijuana enforcement, John Bolton or any of the hundreds of other issues you pretend to care about.
Rawtashk ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:38:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Why? Because you obviously don't know what T_D actually is. Read the sidebar. It's a 24/7/365 political rally and shit posts. It's not a forum for open debate. Go to r/askTrumpSupporters if you want that.
It's like you complaining that you got banned from r/politics because you kept posting pictures of cute puppies. Ya, you got banned from that subreddit because you didn't follow the rules of the subreddit.
Bascome ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:57:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No it is because T_D is a rally sub which is clearly for Donald supporters as it says in the sidebar.
If you want to talk to Donald supporters try r/AskThe_Donald .
That is the sub for reasonable conversation.
You all are just trying to talk about issues in the wrong place.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:21:38 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Not at all what OP was saying. Heโs saying that advertisers would likely find it distasteful to have their ads right above a porn post, just like theyโd be uncomfortable with their post showing up above a t_d post. In this theyโve made a compelling point.
AssCrackBanditHunter ยท -20 points ยท Posted at 13:57:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Protecting t_d's right to ban everyone and utilize bots to enforce narratives and artificially boost themselves to the top of reddit is absolutely what the founders had in mind with the 1st amendment.
What's that? You say I'm arguing in bad faith? Well how about you come over to t_d and say that to my face you little punk. I've got a ban waiting for you
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 14:26:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'd just say you're a moron for thinking the Founding Fathers were contemplating gaming reddit.
AssCrackBanditHunter ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:46:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How's it feel getting so close to grasping the weeping sarcasm of my comment, but not quite making it?
Bokkoel ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:37:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's dangerous to use sarcasm alone. Take this: /s
ninelives1 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:26:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You clearly do not understand what free speech is
Mikehideous ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:49:04 on March 30, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You clearly do no understand what sarcasm is
asshair ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 16:19:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
right, snowflake, you do know anti-hate subs are against hate subs not because they don't fit their narrative, but because they are hateful. if you can't see that then you might also be hateful. sorry bout it.
Mikehideous ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:52:38 on March 30, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Sigh.... There needs to be a fucking sarcasm font or something... Can we get the emoji guys on this?
STLReddit ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 17:26:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
When your speech leads to violence, yea.
Mikehideous ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:51:38 on March 30, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"leads to" explain please. Acting on something heard or read is a choice. There is no words that can magically force a person to commit violence on the speakers behalf. That's like saying that rap music or dungeons and dragons or video games cause people to murder other people. Reading or hearing about the holocaust doesn't make people go gas Jewish folks. Pull your head out of your ass.
JackBond1234 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:49:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The idea that a website dedicated to specific communities must be exposed to advertisers as a single entity is absurd. YouTube has the same problem. If you can categorize communities with tags, then advertisers can whitelist their ads on specific subs, or YouTube channels, and problem freaking solved.
ckelly4200 ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 14:52:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, I will bother. You should go there and see for yourself. Then report back if you find anything hateful or Nazi-related. You might be looking for a while.
sweetwattah ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 16:17:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstHateSubreddits/comments/851rgd/i_compiled_a_list_showcasing_the_donalds_50_worst/
Lol, you serious?
superalienhyphy ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 18:15:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Lmao, "r/The_Donald openly calls for genocide against muslims!!!"
Its a fucking pepe meme dressed up as a knight's templar.
"r/The_Donald promoting fascism!!!"
Its a post advising illegal aliens to comply with federal law enforcement agents.
Have you actually checked any of those links?
teenagesadist ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 14:36:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
People are saying t_d is a bastion of free speech?
I suppose it is, as long as that speech is praising trump. It's a joke of a sub.
BSRussell ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:02:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That was their sub's tagline for the longest time.
Bascome ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 15:06:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It is a Trump rally sub.
Conversation happens here r/AskThe_Donald .
You are absolutely correct that only speech praising Trump is allowed in a sub that is only there to praise Trump.
What exactly makes that a joke to you?
Do you try to jump onto a volleyball court and force them to play basketball as well?
Pst, the basketball court is over there . . .
teenagesadist ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 15:09:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's a joke that a sitting president is so inept he needs his own cheerleading squad on Reddit. People who will go out to other Subs and down vote people who dare speak ill of their dear leader.
Lucradiste ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 15:40:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Every popular political figure has its own subreddit. Wtf are you talking about.
613codyrex ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 17:35:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
r/ask_the_donald? Seriously anything other then "why is trump the best" or some bullshit like that is kept and not serious questions.
How far up your own ass do you have to be to think that's it's anything other than that case.
ShadeofIcarus ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 14:38:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You should visit T_D on occasion. I do, and not for why you would think.
The orange meatball got elected because we didn't take the thinking of this subgroup seriously enough. Spend some time there understand the mind of the opposition so you can better combat them.
What's that saying? Best way to become an atheist is to read the Bible.
pittsnoggle ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 15:00:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I also think it's good to humanize people you disagree with. Personally, I cannot stand Trump. I don't like what he stands for, how he ran his campaign, and from the little I know of his personal life he seems like a dirt bag.
But some people love him. Some people smarter and more informed than me think he is a great president. How much of what I think about him is based on bias or faulty information? Is the average Trump supporter a racist troglodyte, or is it just they have a different perspective than me? Maybe they have different values, but is that because they are selfish, ignoramuses, or is it because they have had a different life experience?
Assuming the worst in people is why we have such a huge perceived divide in American politics. Honestly, I think we should stop attributing every difference in opinion to ignorance or selfishness, and maybe cut the other side a bit of slack.
TheMy5teryMan ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 16:13:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
See, people are quick to judge just because they support trump. Don't judge people based on what they do, judge people based on why they do it. If someone supports him because they think he will bring a future for the white race? Then obviously they are a racist and stupid. If someone supports him because they agree with his economic policies, they aren't a bad person - they might just see things differently.
beetnemesis ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:54:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That said- T_D is not where you find sound, reasoned political debate.
rationalguy2 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:05:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
True, but the same could be said of most political subreddits (latestagecapitalism, politicalhumor, etc.). Also, dehumanizing/attacking them will make them double down; outside attacks won't make any of them second guess themselves.
TheMy5teryMan ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:50:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well of course - the point isn't to have a reasonable debate.
Kingflares ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:13:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But it is the place for dank memes.
MADXT ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:28:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If it was just a community of trump supporters that would be fine. The mods and the community have a very particular agenda and push hatred and division while censoring anything and anyone that invites discussion.
Part of the point of the sub is to dehumanise 'others' (basically anyone that isn't them) and treat them like the enemy for any reason.
So while I 100% agree that treating other people with respect and humanity is the only way to communicate and understand each other, it makes no sense to support behaviour that is the polar opposite - people that intentionally kill communication and understanding and only believe in disrespect, violence, and insulting others. Renting out a space to a fanclub that likes someone or something or talks economic policy or something is vastly different to renting out a space to a group of people that actively engender aggression.
See /r/againsthatesubreddits for examples though you'll find the same toxic and divisive tone / circlejerk throughout the subreddit.
rationalguy2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:30:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think they behave that way in part because Trump supporters are so vilified by leftists. So attacking / dehumanizing then only hurts the situation.
caninehere ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 15:52:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is made a lot more difficult when you read posts on T_D. First off, a significant amount of its population are bots - just as is the case on Twitter. On top of that, a lot of them are just spouting the same drivel over and over again to the point that it is hard to tell who ISN'T a bot.
I also think that part of the problem with the rise of Trump is that people in America weren't assuming the worst in people. A lot of Americans wanted to believe that the issue of racism was gone or at least being addressed - that there weren't this many virulent xenophobes in the country.
rationalguy2 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:45:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What good does dehumanizing them do? Will they second guess themselves because others are disrespecting them? Instead, it makes things worse. They'll double down.
Killchrono ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 16:30:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Can we please stop pretending everyone one disagrees with isn't a goddamn sociopath?
Sometimes we gotta put out foot in the sand and go 'no, you are just an asshole,' and sometimes we have to accept the person making such accusations is in sound enough mind they know the difference between someone arguing in good faith and someone who's just being a vitriolic manchild.
T_D doesn't deserve to be banned because it's promoting Nazism. It deserves to be banned because if they're allowed to act the way they are, then why the hell was I taught to have manners as a child when the rude people are the ones getting what they want?
rationalguy2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:42:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Sometimes, though, you're just holding them to higher standards than they want. Is it fair for Christians who hold themselves to higher standards to expect those same standards from everyone else, and call everyone who doesn't conform an asshole? At what point do you show leniency for different life experiences? Are all Muslim men who treat women poorly by western standards assholes?
And even if they are assholes, that doesn't mean we should dehumanize them - doing so only makes things worse. They won't stop being assholes because others dehumanize them.
Killchrono ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:28:52 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But what do we gain by treating them with respect if respect isn't their end goal? Good faith only works if the intent is mutual, even if the arguments are different. If one side is purposely seeking to undermine the other and uses good faith as a shield to abuse their rights and evade consequence, not taking a harder stance against them only encourages them. They're not seeking an accord or trying to have a reasonable discussion, they're acting delinquent and trying to cause anarchy.
Trust me. I'm all for people being respectful in the face of rudeness and maliciousness when it's effective and legit defuses the situation. But that's why you analyse a situation and change how you respond based on the individual. Context is everything.
RedYagoda ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 14:02:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The truth is that they relentlessly mock the Left and it hurts their feelings so they want to shut the sub down. There isn't any actual Nazi content or support for Nazis there, that's all bullshit.
MechanicalBayer ยท 49 points ยท Posted at 14:25:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Yeah? Well this is a pretty good comment you got here..
https://www.reddit.com/r/EasternSunRising/comments/85p9ov/z/dw2ixb5
Also what about allll these?
https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstHateSubreddits/comments/851rgd/i_compiled_a_list_showcasing_the_donalds_50_worst
brain_on_drugs ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 14:33:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's not often you see someone so quickly exposed. Good find.
qwertpoi ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 14:39:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But that doesn't actually address his argument tho.
myrealopinionsfkyu ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:41:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What? He was trying to tell me about how T_D deletes anti-semitic comments and bans whoever posts them, and it turns out he posts about the "Jew virus" infecting his country?
It could not be more directly related to his argument.
blamethemeta ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:56:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And they do. Turns out they don't police other subreddits
Holubice ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:52:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And yet somehow this proves he's not a nazi?
twobeees ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:46:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
He got a comment from the wrong user. Bad find.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:33:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Is the Jew virus turning the frogs gay?
twobeees ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:44:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You got a comment from the wrong user. u/RedYagoda was quoting
u/TheManWhoPandersu/badgeringthewitnessmyrealopinionsfkyu ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:47:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, RedYagoda was commenting in another thread about not visiting T_D much. This was in the linked post this thread is about.
MechanicalBayer ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:54:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I pointed out the fact that he, who visits t_d, claiming it doesn't push Nazi Agenda.. yet calls out a problem of a Jew Virus...
He's a shitty person
myrealopinionsfkyu ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 14:32:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
We were talking earlier but the post got locked.
Threatening to execute a Jewish man by gas chamber?
Same jewish man, again
Threatening to put undocumented immigrants in gas chambers?
Threatening to put people who want to limit pepper spray in a gas chamber?(Incorrect context)"This day and age we are all Nazi's, and our gas chamber is the voting booth."
Threatening to toss someone who heckled Trump into a gas chamber
Gay escort deserves the gas chamber(Incorrect context)Gas chamber as punishment for kidnapping and assault
When IS it acceptable to call these people Nazis? Do they actually have to gas someone to death?
LOL you said anti-semitic posts get deleted but posted this?
EDIT: I was notified some of the context for two of the posts are wrong, so I added a few more!
Threatening Obama with the gas chamber
More immigrant threats of gas chamber
Gassing gang members
Kn0thingIsTerrible ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:11:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Those are some creative interpretations of links.
Link 1 and 2: Holy shit, how did you even find these? Did you really save extremely unpopular comments from two year old comments from incredibly obscure and unpopular threads for the sake of parading them around.
Link 3, Putting Immigrants in Gas Chambers: Actually click the link, whatโs it about? A comment in support of the death penalty for a convicted murderer.
Link 4, Putting Political Opponents in Gas Chambers: Actually click the link, whatโs it about? A law enforcement officer talking about how part of training includes being required to walk through a pepper spray chamber, and that opponents of pepper spray should try it out in order to educate themselves.
Link 6, Claiming to All be Nazis: Literally a thread and comment about how they feel people are labeling all Trump supporters as Nazis.
Link 7, Actually Hateful Comment: Congrats, you found your first legitimate example!
Link 8, Gassing Gay Escorts: Actually click the link, whatโs it about? Calling for the death penalty for a politician who literally masturbated over the corpse of a gay escort he injected with a lethal drug overdose of meth. Yeah, you didnโt even get the topic right for this one.
Link 8: Gassing for Assault: Actually click the link, whatโs it about? Calling for the death penalty for kidnapping, extended torture, sexual sadism, hate crimes, mutilation, etc. An extremist view, but not โgassing for assault.โ
Hmm. Almost like youโre a liar.
myrealopinionsfkyu ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:52:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I took two seconds to look at the 5000+ results about Jews in T_D to find these results. I only looked at the first 10 pages!
I removed the comments you pointed out were in the wrong context, and added twice as many that are very clear in their context.
Have a good day!
qwertpoi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:41:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You're using posts with <20 upvotes to make claims about the majority of a sub with 600,000 subscribers.
Do you not see the issue there?
taeper ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:04:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Why do you defend a group with members with that much hatred?
qwertpoi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:41:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Because I'm not trying to get groups with opinions I disagree with banned through dubious guilt-by-association.
myrealopinionsfkyu ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:42:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Okay, go ahead and to the same with /r/democrats, /r/liberal, /r/ourpresident. I'll wait.
Seriously. If this can happen to any sub, please show me.
Why does t_D have literally infinitely more posts about Jewish people and gas chambers than literally any other subreddit in existence? There's over 5,000 results. All the other subs I mentioned have LESS THAN 10.
qwertpoi ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:53:47 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So you're AGREEING that we can use low-upvote comments to judge a whole sub? Really?
How many would it take to actually change your mind?
If I bring you a dozen that show them calling for the execution of Trump for treason and another 30 that call for physically harming Trump supporters will you admit that you're wrong? Is that what it'd take?
And if not, why in the hell should I bother when you've already decided on your position?
myrealopinionsfkyu ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:56:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Do it! Let's see what you can come up with. It took me four minutes to put together 10 calls to put random citizens into gas chambers.
I honestly want to see what you can come up with if you say it's this easy!
qwertpoi ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:04:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I just want you on record, without ambiguity, that you believe a low-upvote comment is sufficient to condemn a sub's userbase.
Then I'll see what I can find.
myrealopinionsfkyu ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:55:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, no single low-upvote comment is sufficient to codemn a sub's userbase.
But what about thousands of comments both high and low upvoted about how (((jews))) are ruining things and multiple hundred independent references to gas chambers, hangings, and insurrection? That kind of does define a sub's userbase.
qwertpoi ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:12:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Then by your own standards you have failed to prove your case.
And its still funny, because even if there were 100,000 users who were racist nazis, that would leave, give or take, 500,000 users that weren't. And that's leaving aside the possibility that people are intentionally trying to give the subreddit a bad name by pretending to be Nazis.
You're still doing that thing where you single out the unpopular minority of truly objectionable posts/posters to smear the majority of contributers who you simply don't like.
Here, you give me a comment or two that has, lets say, 200ish upvotes that suggests gas chambers or something similarly evil and I'll start taking you seriously.
myrealopinionsfkyu ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:14:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Please do the same thing to liberal subreddits then!
If it's so easy and it doesn't mean anything about the userbase you should be able to find 10 threats to send people to gas chambers in about 10 minutes.
OR you're full of shit and T_D is full of people who want to put people in gas chambers.
It's been over an hour since you said that. It took me 5 minutes to put together those threats. Where's your evidence of the same thing???
qwertpoi ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:30:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You already said that a handful of low-upvote comments isn't enough to condemn a subreddit. I agree.
I'm not looking to have the Liberal Subreddits banned, because I'm not triggered by opinions that disagree with my own.
So I literally do not care what the low-upvote comments on those subs say. And it won't change your mind either.
But YOU keep screeching that
Which is laughably unsupported by the evidence you're trumpeting.
As I said, find me a comment with 200ish upvotes that supports your case and I'll take you seriously.
Until then, you have no merit. None.
myrealopinionsfkyu ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:33:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You are saying that these comments can happen in any subreddit and don't reflect the opinions of the users of the subreddit.
Prove that hypothesis by doing what I did.
Put up or shut up.
qwertpoi ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:37:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No. I said the fact that you can find those comments isn't proof of the majority opinion on a sub. You seem to agree.
Even if I DID find such comments, I wouldn't imply that it represents the whole sub. Because I'm not a moron who wants to ban badthink.
YOUR hypothesis is that they're full of Nazis.
Put up or shut up.
myrealopinionsfkyu ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:40:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You: T_D isn't full of Nazi's.
Me: Then why do people reference the gas chambers so much?
You: Anyone can make those comments on any subreddit.
Me: So show me?
You: I don't have to show you anything.
Have a good day! Enjoy wherever you end up moving those goalposts to!
qwertpoi ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:51:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You: T_D is full of Nazis.
Me: Your evidence doesn't show that T_D is full of Nazis.
You: Oh? But why aren't other subs full of Nazis?
Me: I don't think any subs are full of Nazis.
You: So you admit that T_D is full of Nazis?
Me: By your own standard of proof you've failed to prove the claim, and now you're desperately trying to deflect from your lack of evidence.
You: Stop moving the goalposts!
Me: I think I already scored on you.
I literally said, give me a 200ish upvote comment. Goalpost, right there, take your time if you need it.
If you can't do that, then I continue to stand by original assertion:
YOU CAN'T CONDEMN A 600,000 USER SUB WITH A HANDFUL OF LOW-UPVOTED COMMENTS you howling ninny.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:08:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So we shouldn't execute traitors?
Kn0thingIsTerrible ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:51:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Iโve already done it with /r/politics and other similar mainstream subs, dozens of times over. They call for genocide and other acts of extreme violence with hundreds of upvotes on the daily.
myrealopinionsfkyu ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:52:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Please post this awesome evidence you have! Please, please do.
I'll wait.
myrealopinionsfkyu ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:41:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Still waiting on that evidence you've already compiled :]
Natanael_L ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:20:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And yet none of them are willing to filter out the hate or kick out malicious / violent members. They all knowingly and willingly allow the hatred to build up.
Also they literally revoked the rule against racism during the meme war against /r/sweden. That's pretty solid evidence about their character. That's the very same mods that decides what gets to be visible in the sub.
brain_on_drugs ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:08:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Hey /u/redyagoda, care to expand on your "jew virus" theory some more?
RedYagoda ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:16:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Sure, what do you wanna know? Cultural subversion by Talmudic Jews is a problem with a long history, and plenty has been written on the subject.
brain_on_drugs ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:26:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
An anti-semite who posts to T_D. What a shocker
RedYagoda ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:32:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Such a predictable response. Boring...
brain_on_drugs ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:39:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, bigotry and ignorance being met with shame and ridicule. I bet you're used to it by now, very predictable indeed.
RedYagoda ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:56:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Do you actually think your opinion matters to me? No, I know you're brainwashed so I actually pity you and wish you would wake up for your own sake, honestly. I don't expect you to though.
Grizzly-boyfriend ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:32:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Trouble is T_D is breeding new shit holes. One of which r/greatawakening has gotten to popular twice since this morning pushing flagrantly wacky evil shit.
kilo4fun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:05:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think the platforms need pull back their own branding and provide more control to advertisers on which channels/subreddits to advertise on. Look at what is happening to YouTube. If Advertisers would care more about individual channels and not insist on the entire platform changing for them the YouTube wouldn't have to shit on gun channels, for example.
indigo121 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:03:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's absolutely a slippery slope. It's very possible that relying on this methodology is going to ruin Reddit and make it bland and boring.
I don't give a fuck.
I love Reddit, use it all the time. It's still not worth the continuing, documented, negative impact that TD is having on our country and our world. We asked, we fucking begged Reddit to take action on their own. The only recourse left is stopadvertising. Consequences be damned, I value the integrity of our society far far more than some stupid website.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:08:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well you see the main problem is they disagree with liberalism and reddit will tolerate degenerates and communists but do t you dare disagree with them to the right.
motionmatrix ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:04:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
People want to push advertising to do this because they are feeling (and not without cause) that the people in power are politicians and corporate people. Politicians stopped caring about what a person says, only what is said loudest. In order to be loud today, one of the fastest and effective ways is to manipulate corporations into pushing things they desire onto other corporate or political enteties.
This is not going to be fixed ever until we the people actually take control of our government again and things are properly regulated by necessity for the people, rather than for necessity for the corps and politicians.
InvaderChin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:05:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"Slippery slope" is a logical fallacy. Ending the hate farm that is T_D is not going to lead to the consequences you claim it will.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:27:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Does reddit hide ads when porn reaches the front page?
BobHogan ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:09:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I agree that the argument they use leads to a slippery slope. At the same time though, something has to be done to get that sub banned. it has been linked to multiple shooters in the past few years, was linked to the Nazi rally, has ruinied people's lives and more. Its a cancer on the entire country, and Reddit refuses to do anything about it.
HumpingJack ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:24:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Cite examples? I bet you can't.
T3hSwagman ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:28:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Thereโs an example right in the link. The guy that murdered his liberal father.
HumpingJack ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 15:35:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Can you please be more vague.
T3hSwagman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:54:47 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The post. You are commenting on.
Did you even click the link or come directly in the comments to bitch?
BobHogan ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:34:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I've done so many times in the past. You are more than welcome to dig through my post history and find them if you honestly don't believe that this has happened. But I'm not going to waste more time on that subreddit or those sources.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:37:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Presumably there are advertisers who would be alright with blowjobs but not with genocide advocacy.
We_Pwn_Kittens ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:24:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think that because Reddit allows you to personalize your entire experience by choosing which subreddits appear on your home page all ads should be good to go no matter what posts are around them.
Any subreddits that appear in r/all that wouldn't be appropriate for ads should just be banned from r/all entirely but left untouched otherwise.
jackindisguise ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:30:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You're 100% right. This argument is so easy to generalize to the entire medium of the internet. The internet is also full of reprehensible sites. Pedophile groups, animal abusers, supremacist movements. The beauty of the internet is it offers something for everyone, even if you're a racist misogynist scumbag. If you wanna start saying you shouldn't be allowed to organize in any capacity of you have questionable views, then I hope you'll be happy once your views become questionable and you're forced to live underground from now on.
Personally I'm all for getting rid of the-donald, but it has nothing to do with some misguided view of what an acceptable point of view is or whatever. I just think the_donald attracts low quality scumbags and I'm fine with private organizations curating their user base. Reddit doesn't need to have t-d. They can hang out on stormfront.
icepyrox ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:30:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Porn is marked NSFW. It does not appear on /r/all to my knowledge (then again, I'm not subscribed and am always logged in, so maybe I wouldn't see it anyways).
t_d is not marked NSFW to my knowledge. I do not see much of it, as only distasteful stuff leaks out into my field of vision. Whether it is illegal or not, I cannot say. It's definitely in a firmly grey area and I think that, like porn, it should be labeled as NSFW and not appear on the front page unless you are subscribed.
I mean, come on, they took /r/atheism away from the front page for less.
lexrc ยท -17 points ยท Posted at 13:40:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Go take a look at it. Better yet, try posting some nazi stuff there. You'll get down voted and banned quicker than anything.
There's no nazi shit and no hate on td. It's a bunch of patriots that want to protect western values.
BSRussell ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 13:59:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Lol "a bunch of patriots." They openly supported marching along Nazis in the Unite The Right march. They aggressively ban anyone who criticizes Trump. I'm actually banned there even though I've never posted, for some reason one day they banned anyone active in /r/centuryclub.
HumpingJack ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 14:25:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Here's a clue for you the sub is called "The Donald".
BSRussell ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:28:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, lots of subs focus on something, but don't aggressively ban dissent.
Also, lots of the subs can see the irony in aggressively banning while calling themselves "the last bastion of free speech on the internet."
HumpingJack ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:30:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If I invited you into my house and you start insulting me, I'll damn sure kick your ass out. Of course in a public square, you have a right to say whatever you want.
BSRussell ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:35:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
...so in your analogy The Donald is Trump's house?
This is idiotic.
Bascome ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 15:11:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
As most people seem unaware in this thread I would like to point out again.
T_D is a rally sub for Trump supporters.
r/AskThe_Donald is a conversation site for people who would like to discuss things in a reasonable manner with Trump supporters.
Perhaps you are in the wrong sub for what you are looking for.
BSRussell ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:15:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"Rally sub" feels a bit white washing. It's an echo chamber, a propaganda machine. Hell, if I were to borrow their nomenclature it's a "safe space."
But I get what you're saying, it doesn't advertise itself as being a good spot for non Trump supporters to visit. Doesn't erase the irony of them bragging about their "free speech" cred while literally being a rigorously enforced single party sub.
HumpingJack ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:38:47 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well obviously it's a place where Trump supporters gather, did the name not give it away?
BSRussell ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:45:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, and/r/fallout is a place where fallout fans gather. And /r/movies is a place where movie lovers gather. And /r/gameofthrones is a place where fans of the show gather.
None of those places aggressively ban if you express the wrong opinions. What about this are you having so much trouble grasping? Yeah if you go against the grain you should expect downvotes, but it's a place that runs its mouth about free speech while aggressively silencing dissent and creating an echo chamber.
HumpingJack ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:55:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Your right to free speech is not threatened in any way. Go to /r/politics if you want to talk shit about Trump. It's "suppose" to be neutral sub. Subreddit's are run by individuals and and each have their own rules. You don't seem to understand free speech. Free speech in the context of Reddit would mean allowing all these subreddits to exist as long as they don't break Reddit's rules and not singling out any one community for bans for political reasons which of course Reddit has done lately.
BSRussell ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:59:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Never claimed my right to free speech was threatened, just observed the irony in a ban heavy sub calling themselves "the last bastion of free speech..."
But dang, this is a serious candidate for the goalpost move Olympics.
iforgotmypen ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 13:55:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"Western values" as in "fuck the muslims"
Samsquanchiz ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 14:10:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Is this any different than most of reddit's attitude of "fuck the christians"?
iforgotmypen ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:26:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit didn't to try to pass a Christian ban last I checked.
Samsquanchiz ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:39:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Are you kidding? That would make reddit's day if christianity was made illegal.
iforgotmypen ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:08:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Cool. Is "reddit" currently devoting their time to worshiping an obese child rapist who has consistently invited people into his administration that are extremely hostile to muslim people? Or are you just comparing a toaster to a fucking crocodile to be a quirky contrarian?
TheManWhoPanders ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 13:59:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Tons of downvotes, no replies. The hallmark of when you're speaking the uncomfortable truth.
Brosama220 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:30:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Nah dude, we just all know that you're too far up your own ass to get it anyway.
Micokerts ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:28:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
/the_Donald isn't really as bad as reddit makes it out to be. It's just a sub with a people like who support trump. I've never seen any racist or Nazi's related post be upvoted other than comparing modern leftist ideals to actual fascis, like the brown coats and antifa. Reddit seems to have created a narrative for the_Donald because it doesn't appeal to advertisers because advertisers are trying to push the same narrative, "they're the opposition because we don't like them" without any real evidence or facts proving the sub is as bad as they say. The truth is they can't find any real proof. Any evidence of fowl play people have is self manufactured.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 14:04:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
chazzing ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:06:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Move on with your life and don't spend so much energy worrying about the fate of a subreddit.
jackindisguise ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:47:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You can block them and go use the site for its intended purpose, and stop worrying about what other sub communities you don't participate in are doing.
wpiman ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:00:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I visited T_D because I live in a liberal bubble and like viewpoints that contradict what I usually hear. Yeah, there is some toxic stuff there-- but that is in the minority there.
It is like anywhere else; you need to separate the wheat from the chaff.
WaywardSachem ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 13:33:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm certainly no expert but I believe the 'gating' on communities acts as a sort of barrier in that regard (i.e. NSFW tags, you have to confirm your age to visit certain subs, etc.). None of those exist for T_D. I'm not sure if that acts as a sort of kill switch for certain advertisements/brands on those subs but it may explain the discrepancy.
dangolo ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:25:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
/r/AgainstHateSubreddits will show you plenty of examples everyday.
Recent examples:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstHateSubreddits/comments/85jl3v/the_donald_calls_for_the_extermination_of
https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstHateSubreddits/comments/851rgd/i_compiled_a_list_showcasing_the_donalds_50_worst
/r/T_D mods don't do shit until it shows up in these threads.
scatterbrain-d ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:05:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There is a massive difference between porn and speech that incites hate and violence. Just because they are both distasteful doesn't mean they are equally objectionable.
There's also a difference in the overall effect of Reddit's support. This site is the largest, most popular existing forum for hate speech. The exposure and legitimacy the group gains from being here is significant - compare to 4chan, where the behavior is expected because it's seen as basically the sewers of the internet. Contrast this with porn, which is ubiquitous and would be completely unphased without Reddit.
never_listens ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:40:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Slippery slope arguments cut both ways. Social censure against Nazis hypothetically going too far and possibly leading to a bad outcome in no way implies taking no action whatsoever is the right choice against T_D, especially when inaction could (hey look slippery slope!) lead to the proliferation and normalization of actual Nazis doing whatever the hell they feel like on the site.
Arguing over-reliance on /r/stopadvertising's methods is a slippery slope is itself a slippery slope that could lead to a lack of action being taken against Nazis in cases when actions should be taken. Do we want advertisers to determine the acceptability of content on reddit, or do we instead want advertisers to be wholly unaccountable for funding a platform that enables the mass distribution of hate speech? That is a fuller picture the problem we're actually facing.
w41twh4t ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:50:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Killing all of Reddit is a small price to pay to shut down The_Donald.
goodguy_asshole ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:17:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I don't go there and I've never been there, but i can bear witness to the fact that everyone there is a murderous, raacist, sexist monster because the people they disagree with politically told me so.
halfdeadmoon ยท 86 points ยท Posted at 14:36:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Really, it's like advertising at a bazaar and expecting every single person there to abide by some external set of values. If you sanitize it, it's not a bazaar anymore, but a generic boring ass shopping mall.
oldneckbeard ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 19:52:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
there's middle ground between "sanitized" and "let's provide a mainstream platform for white supremacists"
7734128 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 05:12:30 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There's no middle ground between trying to silence those who you disagree with and free speech. Asking our benevolent corporate overlords to censor a political community is downright dystopian.
oldneckbeard ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:54:26 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Then why has reddit banned anything? Even child porn?
Because that's speech, right? And asking the government blah blah dystopian?
If you support 100% unfettered free speech (including forced corporate platforms for said speech, aka reddit), then you must support the free exchange of child pornography.
See how stupid that sounds?
7734128 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:42:37 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That does sound stupid. Child pornography isn't speech, what have you been smoking?
undersight ยท 185 points ยท Posted at 14:03:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The only time I hear about that subreddit is when people complain about it.
bat_mayn ยท 79 points ยท Posted at 16:29:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Because it's come to the point that no longer do people wish to personally filter things out so they can improve their experience, they now wish to filter things out so they can stop other people from seeing things they don't personally want them to see.
It's not that these people dislike /r/the_donald and don't want to see it anymore, it's that they want to remove it so other people don't see it anymore. As you've clearly stated, they're not doing a very good job.
EagerJewBear ยท 112 points ยท Posted at 15:47:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit has done a lot to keep it from the front page, meanwhile the 400 subs created to counter and mock it run rampant. So anyone wanting to avoid politics now just sees the obnoxious counter-subs to T_D spamming up the front page of the Internet.
[deleted] ยท 68 points ยท Posted at 16:20:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
EddieAnderson ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 20:08:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I have 23 subreddits filtered, each and every single one political and filtered due to trump posts.
I even had to filter out fucking /r/MurderedByWords because virtually every single post that gets high up on that sub has something to do with politics (like right now).
I'm getting really tired of this stuff. I want him out of office so I don't have to hear about it anymore. :/
memtiger ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 18:05:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's gotten to the point that these "anti" subs (and even this post) are causing a Streisand effect and directing new users to the sub despite Reddit's attempt at hiding it.
hothatchmama ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 20:16:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Shit, you don't even have to encounter counter-subs. Everything from r/pics is political, anti-Trump. They have completely made a majority of large subs to be overtly political and left leaning. Don't get me wrong, I'm a registered Democrat, and I'm not for Trump, but damn. It gets so redundant it's almost vomit worthy.
EagerJewBear ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:24:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's always been left-leaning, and I've always been fine with that. Just lately it seems more extreme, more obnoxious, and less contained.
vvalerie ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:56:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think this is what a lot of people wanted, to ruin reddit for everyone.
Braegrmor ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:33:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You should come check us out. Rarely are the complaints justified. No more than any other political sub.
evilfetus01 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:23:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The algorithms were changed so people who aren't subscribed can't see it. The vote count was also reduced. There were days where there were 100k+ upvotes, now those same posts are at 8k.
illbashyereadinm8 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:55:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously, its not like it's going to pop up on your front page unlike politics in every sub denouncing the guy
rileyrulesu ยท 619 points ยท Posted at 13:22:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Man, reddit is so full of hypocrites. So many people on here are mad that Youtube is bowing down to advertisers and demonetizing anything remotely offensive, but when it comes to reddit you want to do the exact same thing but make advertisers force them to censor anything you don't like.
Samsquanchiz ยท 325 points ยท Posted at 14:17:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's almost like people in general are willing to turn a blind eye as long as it fits their current agenda...
Nestramutat- ยท 167 points ยท Posted at 14:30:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They only support free speech as long as they agree with it.
Samsquanchiz ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 14:40:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm confused. Are you talking about reddit as a whole or just TD? Oddly similar.
Nestramutat- ยท 101 points ยท Posted at 14:41:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
T_D is a circlejerk sub dedicated to supporting Trump. They never try and deny that.
Iโm referring to all the people who get mad about censorship and bowing down to advertisers one moment, then turn around and demand Reddit does the same the next moment.
Samsquanchiz ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 14:43:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, I totally agree with what you are saying.
Fecal_Armageddon ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 15:08:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone wants to live in a dictatorship, as long as it's one that aligns with their own views.
nosmokingbandit ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:16:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
/r/goldandblack
There are a bunch of us that just want to leave you alone and be left alone.
SleepingAran ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:53:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like today T_D is now a necessary evil in Reddit.
Kanarkly ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:13:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Could have folded me with their claims of being a bastion of free speech. Being a Trump supporting subreddit doesnโt change the fact that theyโre hypocritical in their โsupportโ of free speech.
Natanael_L ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 15:25:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Except that part where they claim to be for free speech in their own sub, and that you're free to speak your mind in there. And then bans everybody falling out of line...
The last bastion for free speech! Lmao
Nestramutat- ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:27:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs been a while since Iโve gone to TD, but unless somethings changed, theyโve always made it obvious that their sub wasnโt meant for discussion or opposing opinions, just as a circlejerk for Trump.
Natanael_L ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 15:56:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They don't say they're "the last bastion for free speech"? That don't mean they claim you're free to talk without getting banned? Ok then, I guess archive.org's copies of TD is lying
JZSIX ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:28:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And the rest of Reddit treats t_d the same way...
Nobodys right nobody's wrong, two sides of the same coin
Natanael_L ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 16:00:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Act malicious and hypocritical enough and you're definitely wrong.
It's just that both sides can be wrong simultaneously in every conflict. It's not a binary choice.
One's just way more deranged.
JZSIX ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 16:08:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So which one is more deranged
MyWordIsBond ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:10:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Whichever one you disagree with apparently
T3hSwagman ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 15:31:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And yet I understand why Germany has laws against hate speech.
Nestramutat- ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:33:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Germany is a... special case. You know, with all that happened 80 years ago.
Still, I canโt say I support such laws. Iโm much more a believer of Americans style free speech.
T3hSwagman ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 15:44:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I agree but is there a point where a line gets drawn? Imagine if the current administration had to handle 9/11. We trampled all over our rights for privacy and that was under Bush, who didnโt run on a โkick em outโ platform.
If Trump and the current GOP are holding the reigns what stops them from destroying citizens rights? In the same climate as 9/11. Weโd have probably forcibly expelled naturally born citizens at worst, internment at best.
And thatโs just Trump. Iโm not a fan of him but I understand that he doesnโt directly promote the growth of white nationalism. But he sure as hell doesnโt do much to ease tensions. So what happens when we end up getting someone who is actually openly supportive of white nationalism? They arenโt breaking laws, but they keep pushing a radical agenda. Do we ever shut it down? Hitler didnโt violently seize power, he slowly built it up going through proper channels and gaining support for his radical way of thinking. What exactly is our Hitler protection?
superalienhyphy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:29:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Your 2nd Amendment is your protection, but your side is naively demanding that their rights be taken away.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:19:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Or, it's like there can be different groups of people on a platform who complain about different things. Or are the people in r/politics the same people in TD, all just being a bunch of hypocrites?
BigTimStrangeX ยท 94 points ยท Posted at 14:29:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"It's not bad if it negatively affects the people I don't like" seems to be a widespread sentiment lately.
Faceh ยท 48 points ยท Posted at 14:46:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
I think we're deeper into "people I don't like/agree with aren't deserving of the same treatment as people I do like/agree with" territory. People know full well they're applying a different standard but don't care so long as it only affects their opponents.
There's a common saying by leftists, for instance, that "no bad tactics, only bad targets." Which is how they justify punching alleged Nazis or breaking windows of businesses or no-platforming a conservative/right wing speaker by pulling a fire alarm (note: not all leftists condone this).
So they don't care what method they use to stifle and punish their enemies as long as it it is only hitting their enemies (the 'good targets').
rationalguy2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:09:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There's the truly tolerant left, who are fine with others thinking differently. Then there's the hard left, who think that the end justifies the means. They vilify/attack anyone who dares think differently. Unfortunately, the internet / social media amplify the strongest opinions.
XkF21WNJ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:33:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It seems to be the basis for most of U.S. politics.
iNEEDheplreddit ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 14:09:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Its shit. It really is. The BBC will literally apologise if one person complain about a program. A few people should not be allowed to have this much influence.
ermintwang ยท 47 points ยท Posted at 14:26:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is not true. The BBC logs all of its complaints, and it certainly doesn't issue apologies for all of them.
covor ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:44:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Are you for real? BBC openly defends Antifa, and when I complained about one of their articles doing so they were like: We don't see anything wrong with that article.
iNEEDheplreddit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:23:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What does that tell yOu about the politics of the BBC?
covor ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:30:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That they are extremely left leaning and biased?
absynthe7 ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 15:45:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It might be possible that there are lots of people online, and you've actually got different people making different complaints. I mean, I know it sounds crazy that everyone on a website like Reddit isn't connected to some sort of collective hive-mind, but I just figured I'd throw it out there.
It's also possible that "he said a naughty word in his video" and "they planned a large-scale protest where they killed someone and injured many others" are different things.
Willhud98 ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 14:53:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
These are two different things. On youtube, content creators often rely on advertisements to pay them so that they can continue to make a living. On reddit, users aren't getting any money from ads. Nobody has made posting here their job like many youtubers have. Demonitization isn't going to hurt the content creators like it does on YouTube.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:55:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
AskewPropane ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:00:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, even worse with an infestation with "tankies," who excuse and promote Stalin and Mao
MuggyFuzzball ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:48:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
When every other thing has been attempted, and it is known Advertisers are the only thing that will cause Reddit admins to listen, it's a logical step.
That subreddit should have been banned ages ago. I'm a former default mod of /r/videos, and dealing with racism coming out of that subreddit specifically was a daily occurrence. I was exposed to it more than most, and I'm glad others are beginning to see it too.
cunts_r_us ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:21:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Ya I hate the the Donald, but Iโd rather be there spewing that shit than other parts of reddit
OriginalBuzz ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:27:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Your comment is a classic distraction comment to shift the topic of the discussion to something else and keep people from focusing on the issue. This here is very different from the Youtube adpocalypse. They banned comedy and gun channels from making money with advertising. Those where completely fine channels without any issues. We talk about subreddits here that are infested with bots and wrong information and many post in their try to spread hate and fear.
Ppleater ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:08:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
People got so mad that the gun deals sub was banned, and in the thread so many people were talking about how they should ban T_D instead, with the only reason being because it was "toxic". I hate Trump and his ilk as much as the next person, but they need to be banned for a legitimate reason (I feel the same way the gun deals sub). Playing with advertisers doesn't seem like something that will end well for this website.
pro_skub ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:03:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like those of you who reply candidly and making balanced arguments are wasting your time. Op is probably paid for. We have the same kind of anti-trump threads over and over again.
I strongly suspect that if they are not paid, at most, let me stress, at most, these ops simply hate Trump with so much passion that they are thinking out threads everyday, but that sadly, they actually don't give a single fuck about islamophobia or any other -phobia.
If I have learned anything in life is that humans of all colors and at any end of the ideological spectrum really are self-serving pieces of shit.
Hazzman ยท 129 points ยท Posted at 14:46:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'd like to see evidence how T_D can be compared to Nazism.
It has to be beyond just wanting strong immigration policy, because then we can compare any conservative with Nazism and that's just asinine.
I want to see evidence that T_D supports genocide, unlawful invasion of other nations, censorship of information that doesn't conform to their ideology, mass surveillance and other heinous acts that are commonly attributed to that disgusting ideology... because this is quite an accusation.
ilikegamesandstuff ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 19:57:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously, from someone who's standing outside of this all (since I'm not American), this is what it looks like:
Left: Y'all on T_D are all Nazis!
Right: Am not!
Left: Are too!
This is not how you discuss politics, people.
Hazzman ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 20:50:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
When you have two groups led by the nose by network news this is exactly how politics gets discussed.
No nuance. No consideration. No reflection. Just sound bites, accusations, name calling and hypocrisy.
mostimprovedpatient ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:59:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So many arguments on Reddit go like that.
asdfmyasdfin ยท 85 points ยท Posted at 15:36:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously, this. Anyone calling td nazisim is lacking insane disrespect to the seriousness of that part of our history and the amount of people who died to it.
herestoeuclid ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 18:47:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's pretty anti Semitic too
evilfetus01 ยท 62 points ยท Posted at 17:33:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What's quite hilarious is a majority of the most vocal "T_D posters are Nazis!" are ones who participate in /r/communism and /r/LateStageCapitalism.
Craptain ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 20:20:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's projection. Those who want to silence us are actually the nazis. Or at least acting like them in their earlier stages.
AintAintAWord ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:31:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well there was this...
https://np.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/6rsng3/unite_the_right_in_charlottesville_next_week/?st=jf89eind&sh=c6976ef7
kent2441 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:49:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think wanting physical removal of blacks and Muslims could be considered genocide.
nospacebar14 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:40:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well, Trump's comments about Charlottesville seemed pretty clear.
"... Plenty of fine people on both sides ..."
Really? On both sides? Of a Nazi rally? Compare it to his reaction to Colin Kaepernick--it's instructive.
"They're not really Nazis! They just support a leader who think Nazis have a legitimate grievance!" is an argument you can make, but it's a distinction without difference.
[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 20:55:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
He denounced the KKK, Nazis a white supremecists after Charlottesville.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 17:06:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They had a sticky promoting the Charlottesville rally that actual Nazis went to and waved Nazi flags and wore Nazi armbands while yelling "Jews will not replace us!". I don't know how much more Nazi you can get.
superalienhyphy ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 18:33:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The Charlottesville protest was against the removal of a historical statue. Just because neo-nazis showed up does not mean the protest was in support of them.
ljog42 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:54:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah right neo nazis show up at events all the time
Hazzman ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 17:28:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What percentage of those protests consisted of Neo-Nazis? Did T_D unequivocally throw their support by those Neo-Nazis specifically?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:39:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstHateSubreddits/comments/6ru65m/rthe_donald_promoting_charlottesville_white/
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/284/268/523.jpg https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/599081d015000021008b654c.jpeg?ops=scalefit_970_noupscale
Just Google Charlottesville, there's tons of images of people waving Nazi flags, giving Nazi salutes, yelling "Jews will not replace us!", etc.
Hazzman ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 17:48:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm well aware of the Neo-nazi presence at the Charlottesville rally. What percentage of the rally consisted of Neo-nazis? Did T_D promote specifically the message and the presence of the Neo-Nazis or just the protests in general?
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:18:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
From the first post I linked.
Hazzman ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:50:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I took a look at I can't find the person making the original quote, only a second hand opinion, which received far less votes in the original T_D sub compared to a person, rightfully, rebuking the statement.
https://i.imgur.com/KxL75f7.png
Again, what percentage of the 'Unite the Right' protest consisted of Neo-Nazis and did the T_D subreddit officially endorse that percentages views specifically or was it supporting what it percieved to be a rally for conservatives?
balorina ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:36:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Do you know this for a fact, or are you just being told that and believing it?
xxxamazexxx ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:17:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Since you asked for it, a recent comment on The_Donald on the article about Muslim immigrants in the UK:
Poor Hitler! The only thing wrong with him was that he was white! Totally not the fact that he systematically murdered millions of Jews!!
I know this person was trying to make a joke about how white people are SO oppressed (which I don't have a problem with; people have rights to believe in whatever they want to believe). What I'm concerned with is that his joke accidentally reveals he has ZERO moral compass. Nobody who is sane would have fantasized about Hitler getting away with genocide had he not been SO unfairly targeted.
Nobody thinks the Nanjing Massacre or the Rwanda Genocide is acceptable in any way, except delusion white supremacist Nazis with simultaneously a superior complex and a victim complex.
As of the time I wrote this comment, his comment got +10 upvotes. Surely, not all T_D posters are literal Nazis, but they don't seem to have a problem with it. You may not be an actual rapist; just the fact that you sympathize with rapists and let fucked-up things fly says enough about yourself.
Joffton ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 19:11:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Uh, I think you missed the point entirely. He's comparing Nazism to Islam and pointing out the hypocrisy of accepting one hateful ideology while condemning another.
zh1K476tt9pq ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:48:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe they aren't Nazis but they certainly are fascists but Americans refuse to accept that because then they would have to admit what kind of complete failure their shitty political system is.
Hazzman ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:06:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You are accusing half of the country of fascism. Based on what? Because they supported Donald Trump? Do you believe that anyone who voted for or supported Donald Trump can be accurately described as being fascist?
And what does your ideal political system look like?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:48:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Only 27% of the country voted for Trump. A majority of voters voted for Clinton.
Google crypto-fascism.
Hazzman ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:58:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And what percentage of the country voted for Hillary? I know it was more but the way you just worded that implies that 73% voted Hillary, which is obviously not the case.
So for clarity sake, you are accusing half of those that voted of being fascist.
Which goes back to the questions I had before - Based on what? Because they supported Donald Trump? Do you believe that anyone who voted for or supported Donald Trump can be accurately described as being fascist?
And what does your ideal political system look like?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:15:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
58% was the total voter turnout. So about 31%, which is 4% more. This is pretty close to the overall popular vote, which was three million votes more.
So for the fourth time in US history, the candidate that got the most votes lost the election.
You can support fascism without being aware you are. Google crypto-fascism.
Supporting Trump, based on his actions, the policies of his administration, and his rhetoric, shows a clear far-right authoritarian bent that goes far beyond the pale in any democracy. If Trump were to declare martial law and suspend elections, the vast majority of his supporters would still support him.
This is intolerable in either a democracy or a republic.
Hazzman ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:19:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, I understand what crypto-fascism is. Secret support for fascism.
What you are suggesting, it seems, is that every Trump supporter is a secret supporter of fascism, hiding their true allegiance to the cause for fear of being rejected by society or friends.
So again, I am asking you... anyone. Are we suggesting that every single Trump supporter is a fascist?
Yes or no?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:25:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, they are. They aren't aware of it, but they absolutely are. They are the psychological underbelly of the American people, the dark mirror of the American Dream.
That doesn't mean this is a permanent state; people's political ideologies can change, usually through compassion. But we shouldn't sugarcoat what is happening here.
Hazzman ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:29:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So if I ask any one of these people, "Do you support fascism?" and they deny it, they are wrong, they are fascists and you know them better than they know themselves... correct?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:41:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know what you're trying to claim here, but the truth is clear and obvious. We've been living it for years, now.
One thing I'm reassured by is the new crop of post-Obama liberals. As long as I've known them, liberals have been limp-wristed when it came to actually getting things done. It took deified figures like Obama to motivate even token reforms on our financial system, and getting a Republican health-care plan passed was like pulling teeth for a party of supposed progressives. So many arguments where liberals were wasting their time trying to justify their existence, infighting over dumb shit.
This new crop has way less of that. They don't just debate, they organize. They get shit done. They've already moved the needle on guns more than it's swung in over 30 years. They flipped blood-red districts and turned ruby-red states into tossups. I think, if I'm allowed to be insanely optimistic, that we could see a Democratic party that finally acts like genuine opposition to the Republicans. A party that actually puts their money where their mouth is and votes.
More realistically, we'll go to war with North Korea or Iran, rally around the flag and further cement the one-party-rule that grips Capitol Hill.
icepyrox ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 22:00:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Not who you are responding to, but:
Half the country isn't t_d. In fact, there wasn't even half of the US that voted for Trump.
And yes. Do you believe there are zero fascists in the US?
Oh and for a bonus answer: my ideal political system looks exactly like what the US political system looks like, except there are laws to enforce the original ideas within the system, such as restricting election financing, not allowing corporations to count as individuals, and creating more seats in the House.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:56:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They are literally the polar opposite of fascists. They want more individual freedom and LESS GOVERNMENT!
icepyrox ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:50:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I don't dare step foot in there willingly, but I may start bookmarking any posts that demonstrate this. I've seen several posts where they borderline in some of these areas, but also admit I'm too lazy to search them again.
However, let's look at history and what you are calling evidence for. Nazism very much did a lot of the things that you are claiming, but we see the end results and it seems like you are assuming the stepping stones.
By that I mean that the rise of Nazism didn't just happen with everyone wanting to kill the Jews, invade other nations, censor dissidents, desire mass surveillance, and other heinous acts.
WWII started in 1939. Hitler had been Chancellor for 6 years. Before they truly rose to power, they didn't want genocide or unlawful invasion of other nations (although that is really way more akin to Russia claiming Crimea than I care to admit).
While we are at it, let's look at mass surveillance. That's more like a Russian thing in East Germany than a Nazi thing before the war. Feel free to prove me wrong.
To touch back on genocide, the Holocaust only occurred during the war. While there was some very anti-Sematic actions taken by Nazis, in the early days it was more about racism. The US is already full of enough racism and the white supremacy rallies I've seen associated with t_d (granted, I'm too lazy to offer proof) are very much similar to this. So if it is allowed to continue, just wait a few years and maybe someone will go genocidal.
So really, the only thing left to debate is censorship. On reddit, the mods are only allowed to censor what they have the power to do so. They don't bother to go beat up other mods as that is definitely criminal. Therefore, they can't censor outside of their own sub, although there is a demand for people to bring back gallows as a special place for those they cannot censor.
There have been a few /r/bestof posts that demonstrate the level of censorship on that sub. From entire chains deleted over the appointment of Bolton as National Security Advisor to people posting a left post to see it be deleted completely and the user banned in a matter of minutes.
So here is a group of white supremacists that censor anyone that doesn't fall in line and call for hangings of those they cannot censor falling behind a leader that congratulates Putin and wants to have friendly talks with North Korea that ran on a very nationalist campaign.
Calling them Nazis may be taking things a little far, but not by nearly the margin as your demand for proof would indicate.
Sgt_America ยท 118 points ยท Posted at 14:18:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Wouldn't you rather explain to advertisers why there's an r/shoplifting rather than some right leaning political sub??
Edit: lol ok, guess not. Advertisers are cool with a sub that teaches you how to steal.
Alex15can ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 15:17:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Dog shoplifting is gone. Reddit went full Nazi on a lot of subs.
Gundeals brassswap they all gone.
JZSIX ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 15:26:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Not sure if that's what r/stopadvertising wants, a completely censored Reddit. And i thought its converstives that wants to ban porn
PapaSmurphy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:47:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The new changes have nothing at all to do with /r/stopadvertising and everything to do with FOSTA. Apparently a lot of people are completely unaware that this new law was passed last week.
mkosmo ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 13:50:52 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
FOSTA has nothing to do with gundeals going away. What are you talking about?
Zestyclose_Session ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:42:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
we are just bringing reddit to its inevitable conclusion. facebook 2.0! why do you think they changed profiles to be like facebook? they want to change reddit for the worse to make it more profitable and when that happens people are gonna move to voat or something more relevant.
Aikidi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:49:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Voat has the downside of only being a shit hole right now
Zestyclose_Session ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:55:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
it is. but if reddit kicks us out we could use it as a backup.
JZSIX ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:09:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I ll probably leave before then
Zestyclose_Session ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:10:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
well this sub can stop that from happening.
JZSIX ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:17:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I really really doubt it. This sub is basically blackmailing Reddit with ads right now, who's to say they won't do it more after they get what they want? Heck, if I don't agree with someone, I can just screen cap their views with ads in a pic and blackmail them.
TRUMP-TRAIN-2020 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:12:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The left is the new 'moral majority'. Fall in line.... or else.
Treypyro ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:39:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah fall in line, the left is opposed to racism, hatred of Muslims, kids getting shot in schools. We're also opposed to slavery, segregation, and we support gay rights.
So yeah, the left is the 'moral majority' in that we expect people to at least meet the bare minimum of being a decent human being. If you don't currently meet the bare minimum expectations of being a decent human being then fuck yeah you need to step in line. You should behave in such a way that your grandkids won't be ashamed of you 50 years from now. Don't be on the wrong side of history.
TRUMP-TRAIN-2020 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:14:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yโall love that donโt you? โDonโt be on the wrong side of historyโ. It lets you be smug and condescending while living out some sort of future fantasy where you wonโt have to deal with โbigotsโ and โnazis like Trumpโ in the future because now everyone else THINKS JUST LIKE YOU NOW. Wonโt it be great.
The left also believes that abortion should be a valid form of birth control, a six year old is old enough to take life altering hormones, it should be against the law to hurt someoneโs feelings, the constitution should be shredded and guns handed over to the government while at the same time calling the president a Nazi and all cops racist killers. The left believes that illegals aliens should be able to vote in the country theyโre in illegally (something even most progressive Europeans find baffling). And that they should be able to enjoy all the social programs paid for by tax payers. The left believes that all white men are (or just men in general) are responsible for all things bad in the world and should be thrown out of all positions of power in favor of those less qualified but with the right skin-tone, gender (or lack there of), or sexual orientation. The left believes that if youโre patriotic or show any pride in your country that youโre a โnationalistโ (like thatโs a bad thing in moderation).
The left wants America to be โless thanโ and to โfall in lineโ with the rest of the world. Theyโre embarrassed by our blessings and our achievements.
HARD PASS.
Treypyro ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:58:20 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Okay, so there's a lot to unpack there. You have some very serious misconceptions about the left. You have created this imaginary political extremist that directly and strongly opposes everything you believe in and you seem to believe that everyone that leans politically left fits that image.
That part is true, I agree with that. A world without bigotry sounds like a good world to live in.
Trump is not a nazi, but nazis do support Trump. Same with the KKK, Trump is not a member of the KKK but the KKK fully supports Trump. The reason for this is that those people believe that Trump will make things better for white people and worse for minorities and they support that.
That is false. The left wants to include cultures from all around the world. The far right are the ones that want to keep those people out. Anyone that doesn't look like us probably doesn't think like us and that scares the far right. The left opposes ideologies that want everyone to think the same way, in this case that ideology is Trump's and the far right.
Abortion isn't something people get every month because they don't want to take the pills or use a condom, it's way too expensive, time consuming, and painful for that, it's what is used when birth control didn't work, or cases of rape, or for people who really shouldn't have kids and slipped through the cracks of other methods. Even if there is some chick crazy enough to get an abortion every time she gets laid just so she doesn't have to take birth control pills or use a condom, fucking let her, that's better than letting her have a child. It's not something that anyone ever "wants" to do, but if they decide that they need to, it should be an option.
If the parents, the family doctor, several specialists, and their therapists believe that the child should take hormone treatments then it's probably because that's the best course of action for the child. It's easy to judge others when you aren't involved. Also the hormone treatment is reversible if the child decides that he or she wants to go back to their biological sex. Surgery is always after 18 and even then it's very difficult and you have to jump through a lot of hoops to make it happen, it's not something someone would do without truly believing that they need it. Have some compassion, just because you didn't personally experience it doesn't mean it isn't valid.
It's not the left that want's that, Trump wants that. "I'm going to open up our libel laws so when they write purposely negative and horrible and false articles, we can sue them and win lots of money.โ - Trump in 2016. Come on man, for someone with the username /u/TRUMP-TRAIN-2020 you really should know more about Trump's political platform. It's not even a difficult platform to know, just ask yourself "Will this piss off liberals?" If the answer is yes, then Trump and the entire Republican party probably supports it.
No one wants to shred the constitution. I don't even know how to respond to that.
Only the far left extremists are calling for all guns to be turned over to the government, it's a very small group with little to no political power. I don't want them setting our gun laws anymore than I want the guys open carrying rifles into Starbucks setting our gun laws. Both groups are extremists and are equally ridiculous. A vast majority of the left is looking for a way to reduce the number of people that die from gun violence every year. The way to do that is to regulate the sale of guns. No fully automatic weapons sold to civilians without a special permit (that requires training and a background check to receive). No bump stocks or other weapon modifications that allow semiautomatic guns to behave like fully automatic guns. Require a background check to purchase a gun. Implement a list similar to the "No-Fly List" used by airlines to prevent dangerous people from purchasing weapons. No huge clips, if it takes 30 bullets to kill a deer you are hunting wrong. Huge clips have one purpose, to kill as many people as possible without having to stop to reload. Gun laws aren't really that complicated.
The president is not a nazi, he just does things that makes nazis happy.
Not all cops are racist killers, but we should stop protecting the few that are racist killers. If a cop shoots an unarmed black man that's laying on the ground and is clearly not a threat, that cop should go to prison for murder. The problem is that a majority of the time the cop gets a few weeks of paid leave until the press forgets about it and then everything is back to normal as though nothing ever happened.
No one believes that illegal aliens should be allowed to vote, that's not a thing. Purely propaganda from the far right to make the left look bad. Europeans aren't baffled that people believe illegal immigrants should vote, they are baffled that you believe that people believe that illegal immigrants should vote.
I could see that, I would much rather my tax money go towards helping those in need than to be spent on the military. I even like having the biggest military in the world, but we could tone it down a bit, the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps are combined the world's second-largest air force, second only to the actual U.S. Air Force. Certain services such as police (basic safety), fire (basic safety), ambulance (basic safety), public school (children shouldn't be punished because of their parents decision), and food stamps (basic need for food) should be available to anyone in this country without exception. It's not like relying on social services is a good life. If someone is in a situation where it's genuinely better to illegally enter the US and live as an illegal immigrant, constantly in fear of deportation, just to get welfare, food stamps, and public school, I say fucking let them, that's just having compassion. It shouldn't be so difficult to become a citizen legally. If we made it easier to become a citizen we wouldn't have nearly as many illegal immigrants. They would have to pay taxes just like the rest of us.
Just not true, as before with the guns thing, that's a very small group of extremists, not the entire left. Just like there are extremists on the right that believe that black people and Muslims are ruining America. A vast majority of the right doesn't believe that, but a small group of extremists do believe it (they are easy to find, they are the ones carrying swastika flags and wearing white pointy hoods at Trump rallies, sometimes they even carry torches).
That's just false. The left does not believe that. More far right propaganda trying to make the left look bad.
Also not true, all Americans should be patriotic. The right doesn't get to claim patriotism as a partisan issue and then say the left is unpatriotic. Democratic politicians still wear American flag pendants. Democrats have a much better ratio of American flags to confederate and swastika flags at their rallies than Trump rallies. Everyone wants to be proud of their country, unfortunately right now America has a lot to be ashamed of specifically regarding our president. America is the laughing stock of the world, that was not the case a few years ago.
Not true. The left wants America to lead the world in social progress. We want America to be better than the rest of the world. We are embarrassed by the things that hold back progress: Muslim travel ban, border wall, moving the American Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem (basically giving up the idea of peace in the middle east), our president is currently in the middle of a scandal with a porn star and being investigated by the FBI for colluding with the Russian government during the 2016 election.
I truly hope you reconsider, your apparent fear and/or hatred of the left is not based reality it's founded from propaganda.
Alex15can ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:14:46 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That is exactly what you did to the right lol.
You are so partisan you can't even see what he was doing.
nosmokingbandit ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:36:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
stopadvertising doesn't care about hatred, violence, or legal violations. All they care about is being the latest shit-on-T_D sub.
IswtiadYswsanwtm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:33:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Wow that would almost be a good argument if r/shoplifting wasn't removed and if that wasn't a gross simplification of T_D. There are actual right leaning subs that aren't that cancerous, but saying that is like saying "Hitler was just a right leaning politician" lmao. Shoplifting cultivated petty theft and got shut down, T_D has literally cultivated violence and bloodshed but it's okay because $$$ and Trump is God.
balorina ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:41:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And those subs are ALSO considered hate subs, and once T_D is gone will be the next in the crosshairs.
golden_receiver ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 20:52:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Sigh. Whataboutism sucks so much.
What if I told you, that you can dislike both? There are a lot of bad subs on reddit, but this doesnโt mean we should put less effort in having t_d removed.
This specific sub doesnโt even exist anymore.
pittsnoggle ยท 174 points ยท Posted at 14:39:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I hate defending TD, but every time I go there to see what they think about recent events, I come away they aren't as insane as I think. Is the sub hot garbage? Sure, but almost all political subs are. Does it have tons of cherry-picked data to present a narrative? Sure, but almost all political subs do.
I know there's a plethora of subs watching them and looking for every opportunity they can to find a site violation, but I don't know how damning what they are finding is, mostly because I don't care. TD doesn't show up on my feed anymore, so I don't care.
Honestly, I think if TD was banned, people like OP would just go to the next conservative sub and try and get rid of that next, and then it's just repeat ad nauseam.
[deleted] ยท 115 points ยท Posted at 15:53:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
pittsnoggle ยท 114 points ยท Posted at 15:57:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
/r/politics is actually worse, imo. T_D never claims to be anything but a pro-Trump circle jerk. /r/politics is ostensibly dedicated only to American politics, but 5 minutes on the sub will tell you it is almost as bad an echo chamber.
kent2441 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 22:48:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Show me where /r/politics called for the physical removal of blacks and Muslims.
613codyrex ยท -38 points ยท Posted at 17:41:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Go find a r/Politics post where they are going around trying to burn the Jews or said minority.
r/Politics doesnt ban people for things like have a opinion. You might get rightly redeculed and downvoted for having a opinion but it's nothing like how T_D handles dissenters which is straight up getting banned.
crimdelacrim ยท 35 points ยท Posted at 17:50:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Iโve had an account subscribed to t_d since the first republican debate. What in the everliving fuck are you talking about?! Go find me a post where itโs talking about burning Jews. Iโve never seen one since Iโve ever been there. Jesus Christ.
613codyrex ยท -19 points ยท Posted at 18:00:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
so, because im sure its going to be ignored as usual with the alt-right community here: https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstHateSubreddits/comments/851rgd/i_compiled_a_list_showcasing_the_donalds_50_worst/ top 50 of the worst shit. Nothing directly posted as "burn the jews" ill give you that. But threats of violence similar to it is said to other minorities.
the trick is that T_D deletes the posts once it gets posted to other subs such as AHS but 9/10 times it gets archived.
[deleted] ยท 35 points ยท Posted at 18:34:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Then stop being purposely misleading. You guys are so adamant about calling out fox and other news programs yet you constantly twist the words of people you donโt agree with so you can paint them in a bad light.
Just be honest for fucks sake.
superalienhyphy ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 18:21:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
A pepe meme dressed up as a knight's templar is considered a threat of genocide? Get real.
EagerJewBear ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:29:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Reason 1 they have for banning T_D is something that supposedly happened on Discord and 4chan by one user?
Reason 2 was a comment with not that many upvotes that's already been removed.
Reason 3 Harassing a Journalist, really?
The "Hang him high" comment about comey was pretty gross, but that's a daily occurrence about Trump on the DEFAULT political subreddit.
herestoeuclid ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:46:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Probably AHS posting in TD in the first place
JimmyDeSanta420 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:06:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Alt-right community? On /r/bestof? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M
Just because someone is to the right of you doesn't make them actually right-wing.
GabeNisGreat ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:34:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
https://np.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/85rc8o/yes_this_is_going_to_be_worse_than_watergate/dw1kscx/?sh=4a9e7b68&st=JF139OAN
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/72tfaq/christian_nationalism_can_no_longer_be_ignored/dnl395y/
https://www.reddit.com/r/hillaryclinton/comments/7ab20p/roundtable_1102/dp9ziu9/
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:46:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You are completely delusional. Trump supporters are probably the biggest supporters of Israel and the Jews.
mostimprovedpatient ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:57:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
r/politics may not ban people but the far left extremeist subreddits ban people just like t_d. Hell you can get banned from them from posting in a subreddit.
WasteVictory ยท 34 points ยท Posted at 18:06:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I got perma banned from r/politics for calling someone a Russian bot.
Messaged the mods about it. "We've always perma banned people who call others bots. It's always been our rules".
I find that fucking hilarious seeing as 3 mins on that sub and you can find 5 people calling a right wing opinion a Russian bot opinion.
GoldfishTX ยท 40 points ยท Posted at 15:13:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Stop it with your facts! Clearly they're Nazis and Fascists and any other negative buzzword, simply because I disagree with their political ideals. It is much easier to throw these words around than formulate a complete thought or think for myself.
Plantasaurus ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:18:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe tell that to the T_D mods- they had no problem banning a large portion of their community over trump's NRA comment a few weeks back.
GoldfishTX ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:21:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They can moderate however they see fit, and will gain or lose subscribers over it. Framing the entire sub as evil is just hyperbolic bullshit though.
Plantasaurus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:35:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
the same argument can be used to remove t_d: Reddit can moderate how they see fit, and will gain or lose viewers over it. Framing an entire website as evil is just hyperbolic bullshit though.
While I do think members of t_d community are the biggest hypocrites on reddit, I don't think they are "evil"- just assholes. However, I stand by their need to exist on reddit and we should fear people trying to silence them even if they silence their own people.
GoldfishTX ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:44:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yup. They certainly can. Reddit can do whatever they want with whatever agenda they want to push, and they will either win or lose dollars. My point was, simply parroting things like Nazi and Fascist at anyone who disagrees with you isn't an argument, it's just bullshit noise, and this sub just linked to someone who just made noise as if it's an example of the best of reddit. It's just garbage.
Plantasaurus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:56:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You're right it isn't, and the actions of the noise in this sub just makes all people who disagree with t_d look bad by association. Not unlike the tiki torch protestors caused everyone on reddit call t_d posters nazis.
evilfetus01 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:24:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If T_D was banned, everyone from there would spread into Reddit. It's currently "contained".
kent2441 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 22:40:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs not like T_Ders donโt crawl out of their hole already.
evilfetus01 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:52:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs easier to ban a few, hundreds of thousands is a different story.
lennybird ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:44:18 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think you need to sub /r/AgainstHateSubreddits as you don't seem to be paying as close attention as you should. Sub to that and you'll see routine updates on t_d and just how awful they are.
bart2019 ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 15:22:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The problem with TD is that they ban everybody who isn't a complete Donald Trump fanboy. Yes I'm in favor of banning every subreddit where the mods do that.
EagerJewBear ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 15:52:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You have no idea how many subs do this, thereโs quite a few. Thereโs a reason there are subreddits, and not just one giant facebook wall for everyone on the Internet to participate in.
pittsnoggle ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:35:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Lots of subs so that, and they have good reason to: any sub that disagrees with the average redditors world view will turn into a shitshow whenever a post is popular enough to hit /r/all. Trolls would come in all the time and derail the conversation. Just look at how many subs are dedicate to mocking T_D. Brigades are basically inevitable.
Plantasaurus ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:22:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
what about the ban-a-thon after trump made the NRA comment? To me that just seemed like straight up censorship of the community.
pittsnoggle ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:26:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's allowed by site rules. Whether or not you or I like it is irrelevant.
Plantasaurus ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:42:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit is also allowed to ban t_d. I don't like that they have the power to shut down communities they don't agree with, but the site is privately owned. Whether or not you or I like it is irrelevant.
pittsnoggle ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:20:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit is allowed to do whatever they want. The problem is, there is a difference between saying "T_D is breaking site rules, ban them" and "I don't like T_D, ban it". I have no problem with the former.
Plantasaurus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:40:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They could always add a new clause to their TOS the day they are forced into banning t_d. I say "forced" because I don't see reddit ever voluntarily shutting down t_d.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:51:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It is a 100% Trump support subreddit. If you don't support Trump's policies you get banned. Simple. It is a circlejerk. Frankly anyone who spends their time directing hatred and spreading false information about them is an abysmal human being and should get off reddit entirely.
Plantasaurus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:43:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So anybody who acts like they did with pizzagate should get off reddit entirely? What if t_d doesnt support reddit's policies- should it be banned too?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:53:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit did ban the pizzagate people and TD cracked down on it as well.
Plantasaurus ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:00:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
yeah, after the FBI got involved.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:49:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Try going to /r/hillaryclinton and criticizing her.
yParticle ยท 44 points ยท Posted at 15:09:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit admins have dug this hole for themselves. By actively policing content and banning subs instead of simply remaining a neutral platform, they now are seen as culpable for the subs and content they do allow, and setting a precedent that possibly makes them complicit when they don't take action. It seems lose-lose but this is their new reality.
RedPillWizard ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:26:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
shouldve just policed illegal content but no they had to ban fatpeoplehate because fat peoples feelings might get hurt.
[deleted] ยท 236 points ยท Posted at 13:45:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
[deleted] ยท 63 points ยท Posted at 14:23:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
[deleted] ยท 40 points ยท Posted at 14:26:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
StoleAGoodUsername ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 17:18:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is a bad idea. Bringing the sources of revenue into this is akin to introducing the atomic bomb to the world. You can't take it back once the advertisers are here and pulling their funding, and you can't decide what they're going to want to pull funding from next. What happens when, while they're here, they say "we don't like this Sanders guy, please pull funding from /r/sandersforpresident."
I get what you're trying to fight by doing this, but this is a destructive way to go about it. You're going to see Reddit suffer the same issues as YouTube has, except it's not a couple creators that are going to get hit, it's the site itself. You'd kill the meeting grounds because sometimes undesirable groups have meetings there.
And for what? To make Reddit a safe space where only perfect views can be shared? I do not support the actions of t_d, but I absolutely do not support their banning from the site because people don't agree with them. Don't subscribe to them, and don't view their content, if you don't want to see it. But if you're viewing /r/all, you have to know that that's a representation of everything in the community, not just your specific circles. I think people can be smart enough to make their own choices about the media they wish to consume.
sajoser17 ยท 279 points ยท Posted at 13:55:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Iโm a bit confused. I donโt sub to the Donald and honestly have never gone there before now. I didnโt see any hate speech or so called Naziโs. Obviously itโs posts from right wing redditors but I didnโt see anything hateful from the posts or from the the top comments. Can someone point out what Iโm missing?
novacham ยท 134 points ยท Posted at 15:21:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The comments section in your average r/politics thread are more toxic than anything on T_D.
rascal_king ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 16:55:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
that is such an absurd lie.
novacham ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 19:03:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Not really. Here's a recent reply to a pro-2nd amendment comment I made in r/politics that I received.
That doesn't include all of the replies of people calling me a Nazi. Anything that doesn't toe the liberal line in that sub gets responses like this.
rascal_king ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 21:09:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
probably because they were annoyed by your disingenuous bullshit "ban all guns" straw man (nobody is calling for the banning of all guns).
i'm pretty sure that the guy was just pointing out that the assault-style weapons you insist on clinging to aren't going to help you win an insurrection. regardless, you don't see replies like that on the_donald because, surprise, they ban all dissenting opinions. you do see plenty of the cult of trump saying disgusting, hateful, violent things you rarely, if ever, see in /r/politics.
BBQ_HaX0r ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:30:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No one wants to ban ALL guns, we just always hear Australia brought up or someone advocating that they only want to ban 'semi-automatics.'
novacham ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:58:50 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Wut
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/opinion/john-paul-stevens-repeal-second-amendment.html
rascal_king ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:45:25 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
One fringe op-ed. And even a repeal of the 2d Amendment doesnโt = banning all guns. You need to study up on 2A jurisprudence.
novacham ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:10:05 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
A fringe op-ed in the NYT written by a former Associate Justice of the Supreme Court?
rascal_king ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:40:34 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, judges are people and political animals too.
Elufson ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:50:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It doesn't matter if he's wrong. That is irrelevant. The replies he recieved are downright disgusting and there is no excuse. Try pretending to be pro-Trump in a few comments there and you will see it all for yourself.
rascal_king ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 23:12:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Believe me, I agree that discourse is at an all-time low in this country. But itโs bullshit to play the โboth sidesโ card when it was Trump and his ilk that pushed us over the cliff.
Elufson ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:55:59 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You just contradicted yourself within a 2-line comment.
rascal_king ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:42:06 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How?
Elufson ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:42:39 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You agree that discord is low and its a bad thing. Then you make an unsubstantial claim that can only lead to poor discourse. You are causing poor discord.
rascal_king ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:54:45 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Discourse* unsubstantiated*
Itโs not unsubstantiated. Look at the sort of campaign Trump ran. Lyinโ Ted, Little Marco, Crooked Hillary.
Elufson ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:03:39 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Actually I have something very interesting to show you exactly on that topic if you have the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LibRNYJmZ-I
I know it seems long but give it a shot for a few minutes.
rascal_king ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:07:16 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Will check it out later, thanks.
[deleted] ยท -43 points ยท Posted at 16:04:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
lmao says the the_dildo poster. truly an unbiased source of information.
novacham ยท 52 points ยท Posted at 16:07:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks for proving my point. <3
[deleted] ยท -40 points ยท Posted at 16:11:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
you are not the brightest bulb? lol are we are in a politics thread right now? whatever you need to feed your delusions i guess. have a good brigade dotards :)
Fleinherjer ยท 38 points ยท Posted at 16:22:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So you're an asshole in this sub but a complete saint in /r/politics?
[deleted] ยท -28 points ยท Posted at 16:27:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
im an asshole in every sub. what i do as an individual user does not prove any sort of general trend of a sub. pretty simple stuff but i know it is hard for you. :)
[deleted] ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 16:44:47 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Didn't you just dismiss him outright doing exactly that?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:51:38 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
i dismissed him by saying he was right about me being an asshole? lmao such a weak brigade
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:01:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
^ Here is a prime example of a hateful person who doesn't respect others and is incapable of having a conversation.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:54:34 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
i donโt respect people who support our dotard president. respect is earned not given freely. obviously trump supporters like you have a hard time understanding that :)
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:57:45 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe you should take the time to listen to people.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:03:24 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
i am listening to you now no? when has listening to liars ever been productive? hint: it hasnโt
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 07:37:17 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What have I lied about?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 08:40:35 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
try to keep up. i am listening because you havenโt lied. that doesnโt go for the other thousand the_dildo posters in this thread :P
ShitRibbons ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:33:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Btw this right here is how they signal brigades.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:58:23 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
by making a comment in the post โtheyโ are allegedly brigading? so people would have to already be in this thread to see? i donโt think you know what brigades are ๐
70sBulge ยท 199 points ยท Posted at 14:10:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
spend enough time there and you'll actually see a good bit of compassion, support, pro equality, etc.
if i went on a thread in T_D and said something like "i hate jews" or "fuck Hispanics", I'd get downvoted into oblivion and banned.
so this whole god damn post is laughable.
pittsnoggle ยท 109 points ยท Posted at 14:44:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
One thing is that all of reddit hates T_D so much, that I imagine people do go on there just to try and make them look bad. It makes it hard to take all the "look what I found on T_D" seriously.
superalienhyphy ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 18:37:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There was a post on the front page with over 10,000 upvotes from one of the anti-Trump subs where they had a screenshot of Obama being hanged, posted on r/The_Donald with 0 upvotes. It was totally faked.
eleventwentyfourteen ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 16:42:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, it's been proven that people that post to againsthatesubreddits do this. They've gotten better, no longer making a post and taking a screen shot literally within seconds.
Fecal_Armageddon ยท 92 points ยท Posted at 15:12:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
It's become the Boogeyman. All over this site, people talk about how it's so evil, racist, etc, but haven't ever actually gone to the sub. It's all just people repeating what other Redditors said about it.
It's not really my cup of tea, but the amount of people with an irrational hate-boner over a circlejerk sub is insane. All just because it's pro-trump.
pittsnoggle ยท 75 points ยท Posted at 15:18:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yep.
If I wanted to block all the pro-trump content on reddit, I would block T_D. If I wanted to block all the anti-Trump content on reddit, I would have to have to block half the defaults and a dozen variations of /r/trump_sucks(/r/esist, /r/againsthatesubs, /r/topmindsofreddit, etc.).
Reddit doesn't really lend itself to diversity of thought (ironically) thanks to the up vote system, but it is getting a bit much.
Lucradiste ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 15:52:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I've blocked everything and I have to debate blocking politics too because it's so irritating and toxic. Might have to ban Canada too now that Americans have invaded it and turn every conversation into a trump debate.
EagerJewBear ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:49:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Donโt forget the spammers Trump subs of them all r/enoughtrumpspam
pittsnoggle ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:52:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I forgot them because I already blocked them for spam, ironically(?) enough.
rascal_king ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:56:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
thatโs because most people donโt like Trump.
IVIalefactoR ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:52:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I mean it's not like half the country voted for him or anything.
rascal_king ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:36:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit is not just the US, he lost the popular vote by 3 million, and many of those votes were because the other candidate was unelectable. Trump is historically unpopular.
Elufson ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:53:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Certain people will not allow Trump to be normalised. In reality he hasn't done anything wrong. But imagine reddit talking like Trump is okay or average. That is unacceptable from their perspective.
topinsights_SS ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:05:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
You wouldnโt believe the number of times this exact thing occurs and the result is posted to r/againsthatesubreddits.
Or maybe you would. Faking a narrative isn't what will win.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:12:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well of course it happens they use their alts to post something get a handful of votes then run to x sub and cry
GracchiBros ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:57:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They ban any and everything that doesn't fit the mod's agendas, so I'd take it more seriously there than most places. But yeah this OP is way overboard.
AntiMage_II ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:27:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
One of my top rated reddit posts is a T_D shitpost. I remember seeing my inbox filled with lots of similar fun shitposting and occasionally there would be a blatantly racist comment. When I actually looked at the accounts making them though, they were brand new accounts made solely for that one comment and the comments were all deleted and the accounts banned by the mods within a few minutes of being posted. The fact that people outside of T_D consider these blatant false-flag posts trying to get the subreddit banned, while the mods immediately clean them up, as a genuine reflection of the sub is pathetic.
robustability ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:55:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They are hyper vigilant about that stuff because they know they are under the spotlight. Doesnโt mean they donโt believe it.
You should google โdog whistle politicsโ.
Also the majority of their violent hate is directed at liberals not minorities.
sweetwattah ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:20:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstHateSubreddits/comments/851rgd/i_compiled_a_list_showcasing_the_donalds_50_worst/
Nope. Try again
superalienhyphy ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:39:47 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Sorry, but most of those links are completely misrepresenting.
One is a pepe dressed as a knight's templar, considered a call for genocide. Ludicrous.
70sBulge ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:29:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
and if i compiled the 50 worst posts from so so so many other subs, you'd be sick to your stomach.
look, im not saying everyone over at the donald is a saint.
what i am trying to convey is the general consensus over there.
every group in the world has a percentage of people who just fucking suck. you probably have at least one family member that is a garbage human being. but no one would say your family sucked because of it.
sweetwattah ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 16:55:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Sure you can sure you can.
I have posted pretty extensive proof that racism in that subreddit at times is not only prevalent, but also encouraged and accepted, definitely not banworthy. And the best you can do is deflect with anecdotal evidence.
70sBulge ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:58:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
ok. i owe it to my cause and beliefs to look into what you are claiming.
will do so when the work day is over.
but I'll be surprised if the posters and commenters weren't new, troll, or bot accounts. because that shit is VERY prevalent in political subs.
will look into that as well.
[deleted] ยท -15 points ยท Posted at 14:45:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Fecal_Armageddon ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:14:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How is soyboy transphobic? Because of the estrogen myth? I'm legitimately curious.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:59:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
70sBulge ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:18:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
that joke accounts for MAYBE .01% of T_D posts, at best.
and who cares.
they are jokes. you know how many anti trump photoshops and jokes we have to deal with? they shame the man every which way they can.
so what if a couple T_D folks shop a dick on Michelle and it gets upvoted. thats not what the sub is about and you know it.
sajoser17 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:48:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Iโve seen a lot of stuff about the obamaโs But Iโve seen equally the same about Trump. So do you think that would be hate speech as well or are those the type of posts people on the left would like?
MechaSandstar ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 15:15:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yes. The implication is that soy contains phytoestrogens, so they have a feminizing affect on men, so soyboys are weak willed, effiminate men, as if that's somehow a bad thing.
JZSIX ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:32:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe to some it is, everyone can think their own thoughts, please don't assume what i believe
MechaSandstar ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 15:37:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I don't, I just judge their intentions by their actions and the company they keep, and the people they support.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:50:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So you must be a closedminded effeminate poot
MechaSandstar ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:51:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Um, how else do you judge someone?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:35:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I am using your technique and that was the outcome
MechaSandstar ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:38:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's fine. Could you explain how you came to that conclusion?
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:58:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
MechaSandstar ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 15:00:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So, where does the term "soyboy" come from?
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:06:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
MechaSandstar ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:08:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well, it has to do with idiots thinking that soy contains phytoestrogen (which it does) but also believing that the pyhtoestrogen has a feminizing effect on men (which it doesn't. It's not estrogen, it just resembles it's chemical structure). Not because liberals drink lots of soy.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:20:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
MechaSandstar ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:28:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well, you have the right to be wrong.
Zombiz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:06:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I truly can't tell if your comment is brilliant sarcasm, or if you're honestly that stupid.
MechaSandstar ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:10:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
At least I don't need image macros to do my thinking for me.
evilfetus01 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:25:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You don't see it because Reddit banned it from /r/all unless you're Subscribed.
theryman ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 16:18:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Someone on /r/AgainstHateSubreddits took the time to make a 'top 50' of t_d
https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstHateSubreddits/comments/851rgd/i_compiled_a_list_showcasing_the_donalds_50_worst/
Ppleater ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:12:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I have seen some nasty stuff from using an extension that displays reddit comments on videos, but just because it's nasty that doesn't mean it should be banned without a legitimate reason.
andrewjs42 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:35:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Head over after a terrorist attack, shooting, or high profile black lives matter event or protest and you'll quickly see the issue in the comments.
AntiMage_II ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 16:30:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, clearly the real issue is people commenting in anger following a terrorist attack, not the circumstances that allowed the attacks themselves to become so frequent in the first place.
eleventwentyfourteen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:42:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If you kill your enemies they win.
andrewjs42 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:06:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Terrorists are not stupid people. They know they cannot defeat something like the US government. However, they can inflame a population into conflict with each other, encourage them to clamp down on their own rights, and in the long term create unrest against the own police state that they constructed to keep themselves "safe."
If you fall into the trap of xenophobia, hatred, and paranoia because of an isolated incident, you have allowed the terrorists to win.
dangolo ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 15:05:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
/r/AgainstHateSubreddits will show you plenty of examples everyday.
Recent examples:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstHateSubreddits/comments/85jl3v/the_donald_calls_for_the_extermination_of
https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstHateSubreddits/comments/851rgd/i_compiled_a_list_showcasing_the_donalds_50_worst
HurdenBurden ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 15:37:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I like the one where they claim Deus Vult memes are super serious calls to genocide all muslims
dangolo ยท -18 points ยท Posted at 15:47:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Neonazis love their dogwhistles
HurdenBurden ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:23:59 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Pleaae understand how insane that statement is to normal people, and how numerically few neonazis actually are
[deleted] ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 15:35:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
ddaw735 ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 15:38:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Almost all of those examples are from AHS brigading the Donald and then posting in their own sub "look at the Nazis in The Donald" LOLOLOL
DEBATE_EVERY_NAZI ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 18:38:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
look how dumb this is.
Just look at it
sandbrah ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:57:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is brigading t_d and against reddit's tos.
nosmokingbandit ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:34:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
AHS is one of the most hate-filled subs on the site. That place is awful.
dangolo ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 15:55:47 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Ban /r/The_donald and watch the sub go away then.
nosmokingbandit ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 17:11:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They'll just focus on the next group that doesn't believe their ideology. Authoritarians never have enough.
sajoser17 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:51:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
We know thereโs people who are racist bigots but why is it ok to label a whole group as Nazi racists? Iโm sure if I went on some liberal subs I could find some things that could be considered hate speech. The fact that liberals are perfectly fine with censoring a certain side scares me more then people who say things that Iโm offended by.
JZSIX ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:34:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But usually the bad comments don't get up voted that high? It's the same as if someone went to /r/liberals and said we should all kill jews, and some how got like 50 upvotes, does that represent the sub as a whole?
dangolo ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:51:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Represents the mods failing at their jobs at the very least.
JZSIX ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:09:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So who's to say the td mods aren't omniscient and can't read every single comment?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:41:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Bad comments should be reported and if they aren't the sub is complicit.
JZSIX ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:46:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If a random user came and said I hate Jews, how long do you think it wil be before it gets removed if it gets removed? Have you read every single comment in this thread? What if I told you I wrote an offensive comment with another account on this thread, can you find it?
sajoser17 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:01:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I just went and looked at your 1st example and didnโt see anything about extermination of illegals. They said eradicate which I took as put a stop to. While I donโt agree with their stance on immigration I would in no way consider this hate speech.
LordDoombringer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:46:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"Everyone I don't like is a nazi"
These people hate TD and trump so much they go looking through the comments to find anything racist or hateful. Then they archive it, even though it gets down voted by td itself or removed and then tout the sub as hate speech.
TD is just an echo chamber, no more harmful than /r/politics.
paleolithic ยท -16 points ยท Posted at 14:04:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Just hang out there for a while. Don't post anything because you'll be banned. Just keep reading.
sajoser17 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:53:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Iโm going to sub and keep an open mind.
Pirate2012 ยท -28 points ยท Posted at 14:02:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
you've been here for 4 years and claim to have never seen TD's cesspool of hatred show up on the Front Page via their upvote bots?
derek_j ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 14:13:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The only upvote bots I've seen are ones like this post. This is terribly generic and low effort even for the liberal circlejerk, yet still has 1600 upvotes in a couple hours.
Pirate2012 ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 14:19:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
lol; sometimes for professional reasons, I am awake and online 3am EST for several hours.
Vast majority of America is sleeping; but yet, somehow magically posts show up on TD overnight, at 5am EST. Receive a few comments but have thousands of upvotes within 30minutes.
America is mostly asleep; but guess what, that is office hours in Moscow
derek_j ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 14:37:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So you subscribe to TD. That's the only way you would see their posts.
Pirate2012 ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:45:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I was banned from TD spring or summer of 2016
superalienhyphy ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:42:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You wouldn't see their posts unless you are subscribed, dumbass
timezone_bot ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 14:19:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
3am EDT happens when this comment is 16 hours and 40 minutes old.
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PandahOG ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:18:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
As long as I have been on here I have never seen TD. Could be because baconreader didnt put random subreddits that arent part of my list to the top.
Pirate2012 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:22:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
It bothered me for a while; now it is very amusing.
Best fun I had was capturing a TD poster many words who made a threat on the life of Mr Mueller, and reported them to the authorities. That was enjoyable for myself.
Pirate2012 ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 14:26:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Followup: take last Thursday, TD posters, 100s of them, all thumping their chest Trump (they call him Emperorgod btw) would certainly Veto this horrible $1.3 Trillion Budget that Congress passed. They listed hundreds of reasons why it was horrible. They proclaimed Emperorgod Trump will never sign this; and Veto it.
Friday morning, they are repeating this like a mantra.
Trump signs the bill, and anyone who protested how Trump let them down was banned, or comments deleted.
The next day, they are talking about Trump's 4D chess in why he signed the bad budget bill.
They are also famous for deleting entire threads when Trump does something like this, promise X, and do Y.
I seriously believe Mueller's cyber crimes guy has swept up stuff from Facebook, Twitter, and little ole Reddit in regards to Russian attempts at CyberWar.
sajoser17 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:37:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well I donโt spend all my free time on Reddit. Second I typically donโt side with right wing politics so why would I seek out the Donald? Obviously Iโve heard of people complaining about it but it was never something I was interested in looking into until today.
JrodManU ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:58:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Hateful comments never get upvotes over there. (Unless you consider political issues you disagree with like building a wall "hateful")
blamethemeta ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:20:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Nazi is just what left wing redditors call right wing redditors
jakefromstatefarm10 ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 15:40:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So how do we explain anarchism saying โkill copsโ in the side bar?
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:52:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
by banning it the same as any hate sub
titaniumjew ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:58:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
True. I see a lot of call for violence in leftist subs. If t_d went down, subs like LSC would have to as well.
DaleNanton ยท 89 points ยท Posted at 14:10:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs like freedom of speech only applies to the things you want to hear. If something is said that you donโt like, you gotta shut it down. I am in the โliberal progressive democratโ category but my own kind is fucking scary in the 1984 kind of way all on its own. Everyoneโs lost their goddamn mind. Obviously, Iโm going to get downvotes for this because Iโm not participating in the outrage theater.
Edit: โcategoryโ and โObviouslyโ
Alex15can ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 15:19:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No offense but this is a result of the left's inability to argue their positions anymore.
They have ridden so long on browbeating people into compliance that they lost the ability to debate.
DaleNanton ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:04:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Agreed. I mean, I get it. We got played. Plain and simple. But we deal with a challenging time by irrationally panicking and blaming everyone around except for ourselves? I know we can do better.
peanutski ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:08:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What positions are you talking about? I think they are doing a good job arguing for new gun laws while it seems like the right's only real argument is holding on to an outdated amendment.
superalienhyphy ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:00:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"I demand gun laws!" is the extent to which I've seen anyone articulate their position. Many of the laws they seek are already in effect. Then you have shit like this that Democrats proposed in the House which is a clear violation of the 2nd Amendment:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/5087/text
It categorizes every centerfire semiautomatic weapon as an "assault weapon". This is essentially a ban on nearly all guns.
peanutski ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:35:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe people say such a simple statement as "I demand gun laws!" Because they don't know what to do and a relying on the "law-makers" to decide the best option. I think most Americans know something needs to be done but are not sure exactly what.
I do think their idea is to change the second amendment though. I think it's 100% outdated and was made with musket militias in mind. Our Founding Fathers did not account for the destruction that can be carried out by one deranged individual with legally bought weapons. Slavery was an Amendment that was changed so why is this one so untouchable? As someone on the right, what's your idea to stop all these mass shootings?
superalienhyphy ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:18:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
The 2nd Amendment allowed the colonists to have freaking cannons and seige weapons. Your "outdated" argument is invalid.
And to answer how to stop all these mass shootings: a basic root cause analysis.
If access to firearms was the issue, we would've had this problem for at least 60 years. That's how long automatic rifles have been widely available to the public.
So it's not that.
Just the other day a school shooter was stopped by an armed school resource officer before they could follow through on their rampage. That sounds like an effective deterrent.
The FBI knew about pretty much every mass shooter and failed to do anything. The Pulse nightclub shooter's own father was an FBI informant for crying out loud.
Why does the FBI consistently fail? Why did the sheriffs office in broward county consistently fail?
My theory: mass shootings further their agenda. They don't want to stop them.
Once we're disarmed they can finally implement the police state.
What we need is community engagement to hold these parties accountable to do their damn jobs.
The majority of mass shooters did not have a male role model. We need to stop destroying family values.
We need to hold people responsible for their actions and stop blaming the tools they use.
There is no accountability anymore. Everyone thinks their failure is someone else's fault, or that they have an entitlement to be taken care of by society, or that they don't have to stay in their marriage, or raise their kids right, or that the government is responsible for it.
And that leads to the frustration and instability that motivates these people to kill.
peanutski ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:21:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not sure if you were being serious or ironic by listing siege weapons (trebuchets?) and canons as not being outdated.
But more to the point. You still haven't given your thoughts about what should be done, if anything, regarding gun laws. Is it fine to turn a blind eye while more children get shot down in one of the few places they are suppose to feel safe?
superalienhyphy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:08:47 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Cannons are siege weapons. My point is that even back then someone could've blown up a school with a legally owned cannon.
We should have an armed police officer at schools. It would serve two purposes: community outreach for police to make relationships with the kids they protect and serve, gain their trust and be a role model, and to serve as a deterrent for anyone who tries to do something terrible. Problem solved. Why do you think nearly all mass shooting occur in "gun-free zones"? The perpetrator knows the victims will be sitting ducks.
In any case, it is unreasonable to pass a law infringing the rights of millions of people to prevent something as extremely unlikely as being killed in a school shooting. Especially any laws that restrict access to rifles, which are used in a tiny tiny fraction of violent crime. The real purpose of banning rifles is so the powerful can exert even more power over people without any chance of resistance.
denshi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:00:56 on May 1, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Slavery wasn't an Amendment, it was simply the norm all over the world and throughout recorded history. Slavery was simply assumed up until it was banned; the word 'slave' doesn't appear in the Constitution before the 13th Amendment.
As for what distinguishes between the 2nd and 13th? I'd venture to say that the 2nd, like most of the BoR, covers natural rights that the Constitution merely recognizes; moreover the 13th was written in a similar spirit by peoples with a more thorough consideration of freedoms. Repealing either Amendment would impinge upon natural rights (and would thus be very difficult to enforce).
tallgreeneyes91 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:56:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Go read The Gulag Archipelago.
peanutski ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:36:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Can you give me a short synopsis?
tallgreeneyes91 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:11:43 on March 29, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's a historical book about the gulags in Russia. Tens of millions of people were arrested and sentenced to hard labor mostly without having committed crimes. The author suggests that if some of the population had been armed and fought back--ambushed the police-- the whole thing would not have been possible. Unfortunately most were unarmed and went along like sheep.
bart2019 ยท -17 points ยท Posted at 15:27:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What the fuck are you talking about? The T_D mods ban everybody who says something they don't like.I've been banned without ever posting anything on T_D.
T_D is not who should complain about being suppressed. Because they do it themselves all the time.
DaleNanton ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:03:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is some kindergarten logic. Two wrongs don't make a right. You're just making it worse.
SleepingAran ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:01:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Try to go /r/politics , /r/esist , /r/EnoughTrumpSpam or any other anti-Trump Subs and post something that's pro-Trump. You'll see the same result. They are banning everybody that's pro-Trump too. Does this mean they should not complain about being suppressed?
Just because T_D are banning those who are anti-Trump, should we follow suit? No! In fact, we should show them the best of us. Let them come, talk with them, debate with them, change their mind if you can, not suppress them.
By suppressing them, you are ignoring the problem, not eliminating it.
selectrix ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:44:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, you actually won't.
Go ahead, try it. Say something pro-Trump in /politics- you'll probably get downvoted, but not banned. Say something anti-Trump in t_D- instaban.
also, inb4 "downvotes are the same thing as bans". They're not.
SleepingAran ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:47:22 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Oh no. I'm not brave enough for /r/politics
bart2019 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:15:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They're not banning anybody. They might downvote it to hell, but the poster won't be banned.
superalienhyphy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:03:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm banned in several subs automatically because I have posted in r/The_Donald. I am banned from r/worldnews permanently for defending Trump. I am only allowed to comment once every 10 minutes in r/politics because I posted contrary evidence to their rhetoric.
GreenSaver19 ยท 71 points ยท Posted at 16:37:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone I donโt like is a nazi
perry147 ยท -20 points ยท Posted at 16:40:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If someone acts like a nazis can we call them a nazis? Or is that too politically incorrect?
[deleted] ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 17:06:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
perry147 ยท -22 points ยท Posted at 17:09:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Are you saying T_D does not have white suprematist in it?
[deleted] ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 17:12:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
perry147 ยท -22 points ยท Posted at 17:17:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So obviously my question struck a nerve. Sorry it was not my intent. Here is a nazis pillow to cry on I will even light some tiny cross candles for you (redneck scented of course).
[deleted] ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 17:21:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
perry147 ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 17:30:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The pillow is also lined with a water resistant barrier, this keeps the tears from sogging it up.
Also we offer as a bonus gift a bowl of authentic bullshit to eat. It can be eaten room temperature or stuck into yours an ass and then eaten for an added treat - we really donโt care.
Have a great day.
GreenSaver19 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:12:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Sure go ahead. But just because you donโt like someone doesnโt mean theyโre a Nazi.
perry147 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:23:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I agree just because I donโt like you do not mean I label you as a Nazi. Like there was this guy who drives slow in the left land every morning and makes me late for work - I do not call him a Nazi.
If on the other hand he had nazi bumper stickers and flags all across the truck, I played white suprematist loudly, and had a freaking swatstika as a hood ornament - even maybe just maybe we need to call a nazis a nazis and not pretend a hope it goes away.
There has always been racism but that it is becoming more main stream is dangerous. This isnโt about protecting free speech this is about not giving voices to those who hate.
Hyndis ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:36:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How many people in the US is that, I mean really?
The number might be a few thousand, tops. When a KKK rally happens they have to fly in people from across the country to try to make any sort of numbers, and even then, they're pathetic, tiny rallies.
Even if every single hardcore white supremacist lived in Florida and all of them voted there are so few of them they'd still have difficulty making a difference.
The way its described every GOP member is a Nazi. That would mean there are something like 60 million Nazis currently in the US, which is of course absolute lunacy. There probably weren't even 60 million Nazis in Germany in the early 1940's.
perry147 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:00:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They can cry all they want but โthe chickens have come home to roostโ , the party was lost several years ago and now embrace such positions that until now could only be whispered behind closed doors. Now it is part of the party platform. Heck there is literally a Nazi running for office as a Republican ( look at lay weeks politics) - this would have been completely unheard in the Bob Dole GOP, and certainly would not have with Reagan. The GOP has to stand up to this stuff and others like the David Dukes in the party.
The GOP might have to burn down in order to find their roots, and you know what I got some marshmallow ready.
Hyndis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:32:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Was that the guy who was literally the only name on the ballot for the office? He'd win by default.
Local races are remarkably easy to win. There is very little competition for local races and it doesn't take a lot of time, effort, or money to win them.
That no one else bothered to show up to put their name on the ballot is a problem. Thats pure apathy.
sielingfan ยท 590 points ยท Posted at 13:24:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Random sampling of T_D's current front page (top to bottom quick summaries)
-Trump tweet (yay economy)
-Video (jokes at crying wolf over nazis)
-Pic of gun march (protester: "we'll take them from your cold dead hands"
-Obama's CDC stats on defensive gun use
-Drain the Swamp (joke about Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnel are sellouts)
-Make Britain Great Again (march footage)
-Zuckerberg's abuse of Hawaiian natives (old news for TD)
-Catelonia president arrested by germany (with parallels to same thing in WW2)
-Killer Mike defends second amendment
-"Sunday Gunday" post
-"Sunday Gunday" post
-Two dogs blame the russians for pooping in the hall
-Pics of trash left behind by gun march
-Sweden votes to stop recognizing child marriage
-"stop bullying" kermit meme
-gun march meme
-honoring a vietnam vet
-meme: governments killed 260 million of their own people last century, let's keep our guns thanks
-kids in hats posing for pic
-LOTR meme "there's good in the world and it's worth fighting for"
-Calling out Broward County sheriffs
-"Sunday Gunday" post
-Presidential limo photoshop, license plate says "Best Prez"
-video: "Democrat candidate for Sheriff suggests killing people to take their guns"
-video: (ostensibly, link didn't work for me) Muslim migrants in London shouting "This is our country now, get out."
-"Build that wall" pepe and Trump on a "wall bond"
-"Obamacare has been the law for three years, stop trying to change it." "Yeah, well, the second amendment has been the law for 222 years..."
I'm gonna stop because I gotta get ready for work, but um..... well there's what's hot on TD right now, make whatever assessments you want based on that raw data. Personal opinion, I don't see anything resembling hate speech.
[deleted] ยท 81 points ยท Posted at 14:34:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
Elkenrod ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:37:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Months ago. You get a thread like this almost every day now.
[deleted] ยท -15 points ยท Posted at 14:56:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
jakesboy2 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:40:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Dude i donโt think
is a true statement. The vast vast majority of people in the country are good people who want the best for them and their families. I live in one of the most conservative states in the country and while yes thereโs a few old folk who are racist, etc itโs not common or socially accepted at all.
Also the vast majority of people who voted for trump were voting against hillary as they believe she would have ruined the country in a worse way than they thought trump might.
MustardMcguff ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 15:47:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The problem with that argument from my point of view, is that if people are supporting policies that negatively impact people of color and further contribute to their marginality in our country, they are participating in racism.
They very well may have no negative feelings about people of other races, but the impact is the same. I realize that most people are well intentioned, but the road to hell is paved in good intentions. If you're supporting policy decisions that maintain the status quo, you are cosigning racism.
HurdenBurden ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:00:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's ascribing intent, and it's unfair and dishonest intellectually. That works as a personal standard, but you can't hold people to that if they genuinely disagree that a policy is racist
MustardMcguff ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 16:11:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No I'm literally doing the opposite of ascribing intent. I'm taking intent off the table. I don't care if people intend to be racist when they support racist policies. The resulting impact is the same. I hold people accountable for their actions and the consequences of those actions, not what they were intending to do.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:30:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
Iamabioticgod ยท 258 points ยท Posted at 13:27:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I see memes and fun times all around on t_d
pasta755 ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 15:49:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Especially preelection it was a fucking blast.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:39:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They used to have a discord and watching the chat during the debates was funny as hell
Osiris47 ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 14:23:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Seriously, half the reason I got on the Trump Train was how fun that place is.
Edit: I didn't vote for a candidate based purely on MEMES people, I'm not a psychopath.
MustardMcguff ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 14:52:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's a terrible reason to support a political candidate. Especially one so obstinantly divorced from reality.
Osiris47 ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 15:13:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I obviously did my research into each candidate, I'm not an idiot. I merely mean that joining that subreddit was due to the atmosphere there.
Started off as a mild Bernie supporter right off the bat, until I looked deeper into each candidate's platforms. Having voted for Gary Johnson and Ron Paul in previous elections, I'm hardly dedicated to a political party. I despise a large majority of politicians on BOTH sides for their blatant corruption and disregard for their constituents.
MustardMcguff ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:19:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
We are in agreement that most/all candidates are garbage. I'm sure we equally despise Hillary. Nothing could convince me that voting for a white supremacist was a good idea though.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:46:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Why do you feel he's a white supremacist?
herestoeuclid ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 18:49:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Cuz my woke 3rd grade teacher told me so!
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:17:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Nah, I don't want to get into insults. I would rather have an honest dialogue. I became a Trump supporter only because I decided to open my mind to the idea that maybe he wasn't what the media portrayed him as. So I did my research for a couple days on all the candidates, their history and policies, and decided that Trump was being misrepresented and slandered by the media.
herestoeuclid ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 20:31:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with you. I was making fun of the person you replied to
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:45:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I don't think you should tease him.
dud-a-chum ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 17:06:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Racism, hate and ignorance is FUN yโall!
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 17:24:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How does it have anything to do with racism or hate?
dud-a-chum ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 17:54:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How does it not?
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 18:30:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How does it have anything to do with racism or hate?
Ishmelwot ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:28:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
HOW DOES IT NOT! HER E-MAILS! HIS HAIR! SNOWFLAKES! he wants his daugh-- fuck caps lock broke. brb.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:46:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Can you give some examples of specific incidences where Donald Trump did those things, or T_D encouraged that behavior?
selectrix ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:49:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How about this mod post? Always the first thing that comes to my mind.
https://np.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/4er99e/in_order_to_properly_educate_rsweden_about_who/
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:09:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yep, that's a good one. I'm glad that post was removed and the community all said that was a bad idea.
The good news is that mod is no longer with T_D team (they do monthly rotations I believe, and that mod deleted his account) and that idea was never allowed as universally everyone else thought it was a horrible idea.
But still a good link so thank you for sharing.
selectrix ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:11:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The ones whose posts didn't get sanitized after the fact, of course- have to keep that in mind. Lots of [removed] in that thread.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:14:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Fair enough. Damn, I wish I had an archived link. I would love to see what the removed comments were.
Do you feel that thread is indicative of the entire sub?
selectrix ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:24:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think the entire sub is openly racist like the mod who posted that thread, no. And I think it's safe to assume that many of the upvotes on the remaining comments came from within the sub, brigading notwithstanding. However, the post itself is still highly upvoted- again, brigading notwithstanding. That indicates a large portion of the userbase being fully supportive of that attitude.
Ekaros ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:52:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You are doing well on those aspect I take it?
[deleted] ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 14:34:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
iamjaygee ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:42:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
My head hurts after reading this
lexrc ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:57:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
When was a protester murdered by a white supremacist?
MechaSandstar ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:59:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/local/charlottesville-timeline/
You may have heard of it?
cheesyvagina ยท -21 points ยท Posted at 15:42:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Really because posts saying โfuck Islamโ are just fun time memes. Foh apologist
Iamabioticgod ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 15:50:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I should accept a religion that kills gays and denies women rights? Supporting Islam is a pretty ironic stance for a liberal
slyweazal ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:24:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You literally just described Christianity:
"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." - Leviticus 20:13
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet." - 1 Timothy 2:12
Hating Islam is a pretty ironic stance for a Christian...
STUDY: MOST TERRORISTS IN THE U.S. ARE RIGHT WING, NOT MUSLIM
jayywal ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 15:55:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
yes, because islam is completely devoid of any nuance and nobody who follows it is anything other than a member of isis and anything that claims otherwise is fake news, obviously
your inability to think critically is beautiful and tragic
LastGopher ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 17:06:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I bet you are super fast to jump up and defend Scientology right? Hypocrite
jayywal ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 18:10:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The fuck's your point?
rickybubbsjroc ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 18:24:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That you're a hypocrite?
jayywal ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 18:29:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I never once said anything about scientology you fucking goons.
Christians who use arguments like yours against Islam while defending using my argument are the real hypocrites.
rickybubbsjroc ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 19:03:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not Christian. Hypocrite.
[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 18:19:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Knottybook ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 19:12:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yet,Extremist Christian terrorist cells are forsure a fore-front of today's Terrorist ordeals, Right? There's a difference between having things in a book and actively acting them out. I have yet to see mass killings of gays, and the retroactive suppression of women in majority-christian countries.
collinch ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 20:14:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You post things like Investigate Seth Rich. It's not surprising to me that you see fun times all around on t_d.
Iamabioticgod ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:16:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's because I believe unsolved murder cases are worth investigating no matter who the victim is. Don't you agree?
collinch ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 20:18:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Nah, I agree with his family that wants it to be over.
prodigy2throw ยท 104 points ยท Posted at 13:52:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Seems like a bunch of idiots posting stupid shit. If we wanna ban stupidity thereโs a lot of other subs that should get the axe first
Fullwit ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 15:04:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If you mean this as an insult, that's ridiculous. There's only like 2 big subs I can think of that don't look like this(albeit dedicated to their respective topics). It's just a Reddit thing. It's not some shitty td specific culture.
prodigy2throw ยท 40 points ยท Posted at 15:09:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It was an insult to Reddit in general
rationalguy2 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:51:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There's only 1 solution: #DeleteReddit. Let's get this hashtag trending on Twitter. /s
just_addwater ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:37:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Guessing one of them is /Askhistorians
blamethemeta ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:00:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
/r/trebuchetmemes comes to mind. Ballistias ate clearly superior
eleventwentyfourteen ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:32:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Their hate memes against ballistae should be cause for them to be banned.
Dlrlcktd ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:56:47 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Ballistae are somewhere between crossbows and catapults in the siege engine ranking
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballista
ShulginsDisciple ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:14:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So, pretty much like the rest of Reddit?
jmlinden7 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:15:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Nah it's specifically a circlejerk sub like /r/trebuchetmemes or /r/prequelmemes
ShulginsDisciple ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 19:17:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Okay now I'm confused. I always hear that it's a hate-mongering Nazi filled sub that is constantly planning some type of genocide, somebody has actually said this to me before. From this it appears that it's pretty much like any other sub that doesn't take itself too seriously. At least it doesn't appear to be the cesspool that the politics sub has become. I'll never understand where all the hate for that sub comes from. I would guess it's from all the people that's still cry everyday over Trump getting elected.
JohnCarpenterLives ยท 174 points ยท Posted at 13:52:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Wait, you actually went there, and looked for yourself? You mean the subreddit that supports the President of the United States, the Bill of Rights, hates terrorism, hates sexual violence/child abuse, and supports the rule of law.... ISN'T a Nazi hate sub?! COLOR ME SHOCKED!
TheManWhoPanders ยท 128 points ยท Posted at 14:00:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly what a white supremacist would say!
[deleted] ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 14:31:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Trump has 5 letters, Synth has 5 letters.....coincidence? I think not.
JohnCarpenterLives ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:09:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And ....the son! Is old, and.....TIME TRAVELER!
UnnamedNamesake ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:12:51 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Broke up with my girl because she kept leaving the cap off the toothpaste. You know who does that?
ATomatoAmI ยท 58 points ยท Posted at 14:06:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Didn't wanna stop too soon when blowing smoke up your own ass, I see.
maybenotapornbot ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 16:38:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Also the "hates sexual violence and child abuse" but voted for a rapist president and supported a pedophile in Roy Moore.
All they do is lie
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 17:25:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Trump is a rapist?
maybenotapornbot ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:02:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah he raped his ex wife (his lawyers fought to have it declared legally not rape because it was his spouse which is obviously still rape) and he's molested many others
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 18:31:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Wrong. She said she felt mentally raped and now denies saying it at all. It was from a deposition from his divorce that has been conveniently destroyed. He has never been charged, tried or convicted of any crime.
maybenotapornbot ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 18:37:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Conveniently ignoring all the molestation he's even publicly admitted to.
And not being charged doesn't mean he didn't do anything wrong.
It's pathetic how far you idiots will go to defend such a garbage person who would sell out your entire family without a second thought
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:49:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What molestation has be admitted to?
Actually as a small business owner I will be paying half of what I used to in taxes thanks to Trump.
selectrix ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 17:51:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Excellent question! The answer is yes.
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 18:30:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Got any evidence of that?
APiousCultist ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:11:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Because that is as far as their content goes...
qwertpoi ยท 46 points ยท Posted at 14:42:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, lets judge every sub by the content on the fourth page and below. That makes sense.
MechaSandstar ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 14:44:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
http://puu.sh/zPUcO/20693e156c.png
http://puu.sh/zPUfA/2a0f334e2f.png
http://puu.sh/zPUhi/2d9570b70a.png
http://puu.sh/zPUi1/348e19593c.png (extra special threatening violence against children)
http://puu.sh/zPUjG/46e792b9f5.png
http://puu.sh/zPUnY/842f844ea0.png (this one was removed by the mods, so kudos to them. I include it because I had previously said this post existed, and wanted to prove it.)
So, no violence there. I'm sure some of you will say "oh, but he's threatening to take our guns!" No, that's a photoshopped sign. But the denizens of The_dotard instantly resort to threatening violence, without even bothering to notice that it's very badly photoshopped.
jtunzi ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 15:09:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
The votes are curiously omitted
Edit: Adding a link for the full context. These posts are upvoted, but they are also in response to a message that is threatening violence.
MechaSandstar ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:11:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I was trying to avoid calling people out by including their name, and it was easier to just avoid screenshotting that part, instead of blacking out their name.
jtunzi ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:33:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Fair enough. I say call them out if they are willing to speak their mind in a public forum.
MechaSandstar ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:37:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, but I didn't want to get in trouble with the admins, so it seemed safest to just omit their names.
jtunzi ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 16:54:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You also omitted the fact that these posts were in response to an image of a protester who was himself inciting violence. (His sign reads, "Okay, we will pry it from your cold dead hands!" which I interpret to mean "We are going to come kill you and then take your guns".)
I'm not saying the responses are justified, but I would expect a violent backlash towards a perceived violent threat in any community. Violence begets violence.
Also I'm not sure what rocks have to do with children.
MechaSandstar ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:03:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
No, i didn't. I literally put that in the first post with all the images. If you're going to lie about what I said, we have nothing to talk about.
http://time.com/5213930/pennsylvania-school-rocks-school-shooting/
(also, the sign is photoshopped. badly. Also, when I pre-rebut your objection, make a different one.)
jtunzi ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:37:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Sorry, I skipped right to your images and mostly ignored the second paragraph. If I did read it, I ignored its contents since I hadn't seen the post it was discussing yet.
You are omitting the part where he's threatening to kill them first.
Responding to a threat of violence with violence isn't quite the same as threatening violence out of nowhere. I think you should avoid name calling, it brings you down to their level.
I wasn't aware of the bucket of rocks thing. That seems like a silly idea so I can see why someone would make fun of it. I don't think that poster was suggesting that children armed with buckets of rocks would be coming to seize his weapons, but rather poking fun of the "logic" that a bucket of rocks is a reasonable defense against armed criminals. (Though to entertain that thought, rocks + slingshots would be much more effective than nothing.)
I couldn't tell it was a photoshop. If the sign is photoshopped then why is the guy wearing a necklace with 2 skeleton hands? What does the sign say in the original?
I also don't see how it being an artifical construct has any bearing. The entire image could have been illustrated and you would get the same response. (Of course it is disturbing that people are creating material just to rile people up and I agree we should be more discerning before grabbing our
AR-15'spitchforks.)MechaSandstar ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:52:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Okay, i did the best I could to find the image, and google can only find it in relation to people putting it up to complain about it. No news organization wrote about it. So i don't know how they'd find out about it, unless they went there, and found the one guy at the one march that had the sign that had vague references to violence.
My point wasn't that they reacted to an incredibly vague, and non specific to them, "threat" of violence with more violence, like masterbating over the thought of a civil war, instead of saying "that's just one guy" or "Hmm, that doesn't look right." Nope, it's straight to "Just give me a chance, soyboi"
I can't find the original, which is odd. It's possible it's not related to march for our lives (a search for orange jacket sign march for our lives didn't bring anything up, nor did a search for orange jacket sign, and a reverse image search only found that picture in relationship to alt-righters complaining about it.)
It does seem to have come from /pol/ and I think we can agree that they're not the most trustworthy source on the planet, and maybe we should view images coming from them with a ton of scepticism. You may ask "how are they supposed to know it came from /pol/"? Why....the same way I did. By taking 5 seconds to do a reverse google image search. What, you think I just have cosmic awareness, and knew it?
i don't know why he was wearing too skeleton hands, but you'd have to wait an awfully long time for flesh to decay to that point, and that seems like a waste of time when all you want is the guns.
As for the children with a box of rocks....you're making excuses for them. It's 100% a reference to school kids being given rocks to defend themselves. For one, march for our lives was started by school kids, and they're the vast majority of those taking part in it. So they're making vague illusions to killing school kids who are armed with rocks. And no, i don't think a bucket of rocks is a reasonable defense against armed criminals. I don't think giving everyone guns to protect themselves are either. When this coutnry has nearly as many guns as it has people, yet still has one of the highest incidents of murder per capita of any modern, western country, I just don't see how anyone can claim guns make people safer.
jtunzi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:26:54 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They got trolled hard and responded in circle jerk fashion. Yes their responses are antagonistic and hateful. I'm with you there 100%. I don't want to stand by their words, I just wanted to point out that I thought you painted them in a worse light by omitting a critical piece of context.
Go on... How are you interpreting the results of a reverse image search to determine the original entry point for this image? Does it show that the /pol/ posting is the oldest?
Could very well be photoshopped too. I believe skeleton hands were selected because they illustrate "cold dead hands" the most clearly.
I have no interest in defending them, I'm calling you out for intentionally misrepresenting their comment.
They are referencing that event, but children defending themselves with rocks has nothing to do with the topic of the thread, which is an authoritarian government forcibly de-arming their populace. Here is the rational behind it:
Obviously there is some flawed reasoning there, but I don't think it's logical to suggest they wanted to kill children. Why would the children with buckets of rocks show up to take their guns? They are pointing out the silliness of the rocks vs. guns idea.
That has nothing to do with the comment which only talks about guns being better in a fight than rocks. Also, the bucket of rocks defense was started by the school administration, not students.
So what is your reasonable defense against armed criminals?
Guns per capita has been going up while murders per capita has been going down, how do you explain that? If you lived in Baltimore which has a murder rate 10x higher than the national average, would you feel safer if you owned and carried a gun or would you feel more threatened?
I would also think that a country with 300 million privately owned firearms would be harder to invade than a country with 0 privately owned firearms. This argument also works for a tyrannical government taking over.
MechaSandstar ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:58:20 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If countries with low per capita gun ownership are so easy to invade, why hasn't anyone done that to say, Canada? Or the UK? Or any african country? Or any asian country. Or south american country. Or european country...oh, wait, there's one exception to that. Russian invaded Ukraine.
I guess to wrap up my thoughts: I included the context. I possibly should've included the original picture in my response, but it's not like I didn't even mention it. I feel I was fair to them.
jtunzi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:33:26 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Geography, proximity and allegiance to US. I also think it's too cold for anyone to want to go there. (This is partly why military campaigns in Russia have failed.)
Largely geography and plus they have been the world superpower for much of the past few hundred years. An invasion was planned during WW2.
See European colonization. Many of these countries were invaded and occupied for decades because the invaders had more guns. China and Korea were occupied by Japan during WW2. The socialist government in France outlawed most firearms right before WW2 broke out... (whoops).
And Ukraine does have a fairly low ownership per capita.
If you are referring to recent history, it's mostly due to the stability that has lasted since the end of WW2. If the US and allies withdrew forces from the rest of the world, I bet you would see things destabilize quickly.
RadiatedMolecule ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 14:49:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I can go on any sub and find a few fucking imbeciles that make dumb comments... just saying.
[deleted] ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 14:52:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
RadiatedMolecule ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:54:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What do you mean?
MechaSandstar ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:57:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The guy I'm responding to said that The_dotard is against violence. I gave him 6 examples from one thread, of people basically masterbating over the idea of shooting liberals. People aren't making claims about other subs, so your statement is meaningless. If someone said that /politics is anti-violence, and someone found a lot of people advocating violence in one thread, then yeah, you'd be right. But people aren't claiming that.
RadiatedMolecule ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:11:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Iโm just confused. What does it matter what people claim? People can โclaimโ anything. Just because there are no left-wings on reddit that say left-wing subreddits promote violence doesnโt change the fact that you can find several radical liberal comments in those threads that make pretty rash statements. Extremism on both sides is ridiculous, you canโt deny that.
MechaSandstar ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:13:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Okay. Let me restate it, in an attempt to clarify: Someone made a claim, I refuted that claim. People aren't making similar claims about other subreddits, so the fact that you can find similar statements in other subs doesn't matter.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:27:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You screenshotted comments. There isnโt even any proof they came from TD. How many upvotes did they have. Who even wrote them? You are very low energy.
MechaSandstar ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:28:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I put more effort into my post than you did, and I'm low energy. Sad!
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:44:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You Ommited all the facts though. You cherry picked a few comments and didnโt even show how many votes they had or that they were even from that subreddit. Not sure why you wasted your time. Get the permalink, archive it and get back to me.
YimannoHaffavoa ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:26:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I found it interesting that all the comments you posted exclude the comment score.
MechaSandstar ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:33:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I explained that: I didn't want to call anyone out by including their name, and it was easier to just exclude that part, then it would be to use photoshop and black their names out.
YimannoHaffavoa ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:03:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I find it interesting that you use convenience as the explanation for the omission of the only two pieces of information that could be used to invalidate your evidence.
A +1 score on a ten minute old comment advocating for violence is a damning piece of evidence in your favour? I think not.
MechaSandstar ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:06:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Um, is it incredibly hard for you to go to the thread, and do a cntrl-f to search for some of the words in the pictures, and find the scores for yourself? I'm sorry. I didn't realize I had to put in as much effort as possible including all the evidence you claim you want just to have you find another excuse to completely dismiss my evidence.
jakesboy2 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:35:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Go on /r/politics for a little bit. Itโs the exact same sub except the opposing ideology. Thereโs a bunch of dumb asses and a few people who actually have some well thought out points.
MechaSandstar ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:36:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
NO ONE IS MAKING CLAIMS ABOUT /POLITICS IN THIS THREAD.
samdsherman ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:03:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The comment you're replying to is making a claim about r/politics
MechaSandstar ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 16:17:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well, that's because he's trying to throw up chaff in order to distract from the_dotard's violent inclinations.
[deleted] ยท -21 points ยท Posted at 14:12:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 14:32:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
THAT sounds like Nazi Germany to you? You're the type of moron people are talking about here.
Luckftw ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:00:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Didn't you know ww2 was about fighting overzealous moderators of forums? Hitler was the worst. Banning people and stuff.
Nicknackpatywak ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 14:35:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Pretty sure it states in the community guidelines that is a pro-trump sub and not a place for discussion. Thatโs why there is r/AskThe_Donald. I only go there because itโs the only place to read something that isnโt โTrump let a fart squeak out before he could make it to the bathroom...IMPEACHโ
jayywal ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:24:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You just described an echo chamber and a safe space simultaneously and completely without irony
Xetios ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:57:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So are you saying we should ban all echo chamber and safe space subs? There are many.
jayywal ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:47:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No. The_Donald always talks about echo chambers and safe spaces while being exactly that.
s11houette ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 14:35:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's because of how the sub is under constant brigade. If they didn't ban people in this manner then there wouldn't be a sub at all. The mods admit that they are too heavy with the bans, but don't know an alternative.
Exceon ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:48:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So why permaban people just asking why comments are being deleted?
s11houette ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:27:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Because the mods are not paid and they don't have the time to sort crap out in the middle of a brigade. If they don't do a sufficient job moderating then the sub would be banned as they are held to a higher standard. That's a difficult job when you have leftists coming on and posting inflammatory and racist stuff just so they can report it.
They mostly give temporary bans. If you think they made a mistakes, message the mods.
Exceon ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 15:30:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Ah yes, itโs the leftists fault. Nice one
JesusLeftNut ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:35:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There's literally posts on AGH that are just screenshots of 1 minute old posts with 0 upvotes and then they claim that's proof of it being a hate sub, when it's clearly the same guy that posted that
JohnCarpenterLives ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 14:30:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
I don't think you know anything about Nazi Germany.
Spez: He deleted his comment. Can't even stand downvotes. Fucking coward.
[deleted] ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 14:27:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Dlrlcktd ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:38:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Also, itโs a sub, not a country. I was really good at those โfind the differenceโpictures
gizmo1024 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:35:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone says this like there isnโt an overzealous group of people dying to go over there and piss in their cereal and take a shit on their doorstep all the while acting incredulous when told they are not welcome.
As much as people call it a cesspool, they sure are eager to splash around in it.
smokeybehr ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:44:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's not just that, but there are Redditors who use an alt profile that deliberately go in, post inflammatory, racist, sexist bullshit, screenshot it, then post it to the Trump Hate subs saying "Ermagerd! See what was posted in T_D! It's a Hate Sub that needs to be shut down!!!!!"; even though within moments of being posted, it's deleted by the mods, or taken down by the very poster that put it up. It's a game of cat-and-mouse that's continuously being played.
Firefro626 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:56:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
crazy mods are of any flag
obamaluvr ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:55:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit does not have balanced political engagement - one side is usually far more popular on issues that come up.
The mods in that minority subreddit have to run a tighter ship than the subreddit of the majority to keep in on-track, as opposed to relying on votes to seperate the wheat from the chaff.
thelandofdreams ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:19:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Try going to 2x chromosomes, a default sub, and questioning feminism in anyway. See how fast you get banned.
Bascome ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:14:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You are in the wrong sub is why.
You want r/AskThe_Donald if you want to be critical of Trump or his policies and engage in reasonable discussion.
Any more questions?
olivethedoge ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:42:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well they don't hate terrorism or sexual violence and child abuse anyway.
BSRussell ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 16:04:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I love the right claiming to "hate terrorism" as if that's taking a stand on something. Who doesn't hate terrorism? Who's out there marching in favor of child abuse?
Boring straw men. As for the Nazi/hate part, I'm sure people were just confused from that time the sub promoted marching alongside Nazis.
JohnCarpenterLives ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 19:22:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Canadians, and Europe giving assistance to returning ISIS fighters seems like a pretty good example to me. Oh, and Trudeau giving the American killing terrorist a couple million dollars.
And then there was also the news TODAY of how Sweden made child marriage illegal.....AND FACED POLITICAL OPPOSITION.
BSRussell ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:31:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Ah yes, they all sound super pro terrorism to me. That's not a goalpost move at all.
JohnCarpenterLives ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 19:58:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I just gave you examples of countries showing some love to terrorists. We don't do that at T_D. Keep apologising. MAGA
BSRussell ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:19:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's amazing how quickly and easily T_Ders shift from pretending to be intelligent, reasonable people to literally saying "Canada loves terrorists."
Enjoy your safe space
JohnCarpenterLives ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:44:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Uh-huh.
Woops! It was $10.5 MILLION! https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/world/2017/07/17/omar-khadr-canada-pays-ex-gitmo-detainee-who-killed-us-soldier-millions-but-soldiers-widow-may-never-see-dime.amp.html
https://globalnews.ca/video/3868046/canada-offers-reintegration-support-for-isis-fighters/
Hey, if you kill your enemies they win right??
I_love_Coco ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 15:07:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
SHUT THEM DOWN ! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:55:29 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Most of the hate is in the comments.
[deleted] ยท -45 points ยท Posted at 13:40:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
TheManWhoPanders ยท 81 points ยท Posted at 13:59:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And yet you provided no such comments yourself. It's like you're not even trying.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:24:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Dlrlcktd ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 14:40:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I can find comments of people defending FDR putting Americans in concentration camps, doesnโt mean every sub they comment in is a nazi sub
eleventwentyfourteen ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:37:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Why is you getting downvoted a brigade? You made a bad post and people are downvoting you for it.
Also, why did you quote American Psycho jokes?
[deleted] ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 14:10:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:29:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But I want so badly for them to be true. That would simplify my life substantially and I wouldn't have to dialogue with my countrymen.
[deleted] ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 14:20:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:32:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
[deleted] ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 14:40:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
smokeybehr ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:47:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But there is one overriding culture: The American Culture. It's based on the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, not the rantings of a syphilitic lunatic pedophile.
[deleted] ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 14:50:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
bigmeaniehead ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:51:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
70% of muslims are inbred in pakistan. Inbreeding leads to a host of behavioral problems.
when asked whether suicide bombing against civilian targets to defend islam was justified, 42% of muslims in france answered yes, always.
32782 attacks have been carried out in the name of islam since 9/11
yesterday two suicide bombs went off in the name of islam.
Its everyday.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:45:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 15:14:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:23:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:32:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
bigmeaniehead ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:41:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Did you know that 70% of muslims in pakistan are the products of imbreeding due to the rule in the quran that you can marry your first cousin?
Do you not think that imbreeding causes issues?
Do you think that 70% is a few extremist cases?
did you know that 42% of muslims in france Always support suicide bombing?
is 42% a few extremist cases?
These are real measurable things you are conveniently ignoring. REAL STATISTICS. You cannot ignore real statistics like this.
I have nothing against the people who follow islam, they are simply trapped by a toxic ideology. The ideology however is evil.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:12:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
bigmeaniehead ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:50:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not worried about the past or the future. The problem is right now. Right now 70% of pakistan muslims are imbred; you agree with me on that. You agree that when you imbred over and over a host of issues arise from that. You'll also agree that the quran allows cousins to marry and that when done multiple times in succession its a big issue.
So there's one instance of Islam causing a big issue in the world and hurting those who follow it, in a real tangible way.
This one shows the percentage of muslims who want to overturn established law and replace it with sharia law
Its a known method of jihad to subvert the enemy. Its a sociopolitical ideology masquerading as religion that's primary focus is of conquest.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:02:47 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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bigmeaniehead ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:38:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
There is no single answer here. Education is definitely useful but other measures have to be taken as well.
I did not say you agreed with everything, I said you agreed with the percentage of imbred. I can safely say you agreed with that by you saying "The first is due to", which necessitates acknowledgement of fact. No words were put into your mouth.
I ditched the other stat since I couldn't find. I worry about censorship personally. However I still have plenty of evidence of why Islam is toxic and evil, so I can still use that. To get caught up on lost evidence and ignore the heaps of evidence elsewhere is disingenuous so don't go down that route.
Turkey is at 12% at those stats from 2015 but now turkey is about to become sharia... The schools are being forced to include prayer rooms and mats. That's systematic.
I should hope that we are stronger than Islam. I should hope that the west can take care of the people fleeing from Islam and culturally convert them. I can care about the people under the evils of Islam. I might even go as far as to say that I can see some wisdom in some of the words, but despite that I won't ignore its evils.
And of course eastern countries would feel more of the opinion of Islam. Its closer to its core and as it spreads opinions increases, and populations move in and create enclaves, and the enclaves supress populations and to enact more laws and it all rolls down hill
London has a muslim mayor and muslim enclaves and you can be put in jail for criticizing Islam online or real life, right now.
There has been rape gangs. Contrary to popular belief its mostly men and young men who are refuges. ISIS has said that was their plan all along. As ISIS collapsed they probably just went in the migration wave that happened.
Also the crusades were a response to the systematic Islamic conquests of Christian provinces. Ever since its conception Islam has constantly sought conquest and subjugation.
Iamabioticgod ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:35:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
how is pointing out rising muslim populations racist?
Bannakaffalatta1 ยท -39 points ยท Posted at 13:41:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Just look towards the comments. Especially on that Sweden one.
EDIT: THERE'S THAT BRIGADE FROM T_D!
lexrc ยท 74 points ยท Posted at 13:48:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Let me guess: A bunch of islamaphobes that don't like Sweden being the rape capital of Europe with no go zones and daily grenade attacks?
How'd I do?
Wolphoenix ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:55:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Except ofcourse they deliberately spread misinformation and lies about Sweden such as it being the "rape capital" with "no go zones" and "daily grenade attacks". And they blame this all on non-white Muslim migrants. The Nazis did similar things about Jews.
s11houette ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 15:15:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Denying that real problems exist significantly weakens your position. No, it's not a war zone, but that does not mean that they don't have any issues. They have made many mistakes from which we can learn. Just because people acknowledge certain problems exist does not mean that they would accept gassing people as an acceptable solution.
The grenade attacks happen somewhere closer to every other day to every three days according to the media: https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=103&artikel=6470615
There are no go zones, all you have to do is search youtube for examples. This guy who is not on the right, but has integrity went there a year ago to investigate and did a good job of exposing what people are concerned about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3Aaq0U1SCY&list=PLxQaod7tWvYK_Naia54GcFr3Ff04y3O5Z
His conclusion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0p7Oyvql9s&list=PLxQaod7tWvYK_Naia54GcFr3Ff04y3O5Z&index=17
Wolphoenix ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 15:20:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Ofc they have issues. It's a country, every country has issues.
But blaming non-white migrants through lies and misinformation is a deliberate tactic of a specific group.
Explosions yes, and some are grenade explosions yes. But T_D and others blame it on migrants, specifically non-white migrants who they accuse of being Muslims and that that is the reason for these things happening. Even though the groups that have access to these weapons are mostly Eastern-European and Swedish biker gangs.
There are no actual no go zones. No YouTube video or any proper evidence has been given of areas where people cannot go. Even Tim Pool, being as dishonest as he was being with his Sweden tour, did not find any areas he could not go to.
superalienhyphy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:51:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"They blame it on muslims but its probably Swedish bikers"
LMFAO
Wolphoenix ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:50:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Swedish biker gangs control much of the illegal weapon's trade in the country. And weapons like grenades they get from their suppliers in Eastern-Europe where such weapons became easy to get after the tumultuous fall of the Soviet Union and the subsequent wars.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/scandinavia-takes-on-its-gangland-warriors-1357953.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1997/02/27/biker-gangs-wars-terrorize-scandinavians/f4797d09-8531-4e12-a0b4-3e3b3f89855f/?utm_term=.58ea160e74ce
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Nordic_Biker_War
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2258270/Violent-biker-gangs-arriving-Europe-prompt-fresh-fears-new-turf-war.html
If you don't actually know anything about the biker gangs and their warfare and what they control in Sweden, it's best to shut up.
s11houette ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:59:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
We might have different definitions of "no go zone". What i understand it to mean is an area where a police escort is required for all emergency services and where media is not allowed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCsEqKjP9p0 He did find a no go zone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODw7o34Vdbk
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:53:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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s11houette ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:18:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
A) I'm not "alt-right".
B) Tim pool is definitely not "alt-right".
c) If you want to talk about propaganda then perhaps we should start with the mega corporations that control the media.
kn05is ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:13:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Now try and go on to their sub and prove them wrong with evidence and join their conversation. Their idea if free speech is an insta ban on anyone who doesnt agree with them or can instantly disprove all of their lies.
Natanael_L ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:36:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I wonder if you're being downvoted because people don't think TD does that, or if they believe those claims are true and disagree with the claim that they're lies.
Wolphoenix ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:37:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Both. It shows why hubs like T_D are dangerous: people actually start to believe their fascist propaganda.
Bannakaffalatta1 ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 13:51:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
It's funny because you're being sarcastic (based off your previous posts here and on T_D) but it is RAMPANT with Islamaphobia and misinformation.
TheManWhoPanders ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 14:00:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Is Sweden the grenade attack capital of Europe?
Yes or no?
xmindallas ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:21:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Umm...yes?
ermintwang ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:24:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Is America the mass shooting capital of the world?
Yes or No?
TheManWhoPanders ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:28:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, actually. The fact that you spouted that kind of ignorance with so much arrogance is exactly what's wrong with the Left today.
ermintwang ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:31:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, actually.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States
"The United States has had more mass shootings than any other country."
Also, I was copying your response, so it's a bit rich to call it arrogant. I just said exactly what you said but about America rather than Sweden.
KushDingies ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:55:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Of course we have more than other countries, we're a huge country. But we don't have more per capita. https://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Screen-Shot-2016-04-05-at-Tuesday-April-5-1.05-AM.png
I don't know the source of those stats, but if you can find any that disagree please show me.
ermintwang ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:12:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
3 of the top 5 deadliest mass shootings in U.S. history happened since 2015. The U.S. has five times the amount of public mass shootings than the second most prolific country - the U.S had 90, the Phillipines at number two had 19.
The U.S. has 5% of the world's population, but 31% of the mass shooting events.
TheManWhoPanders ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:37:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Same is true of France.
Look at per capita rates. That's how stats works.
This tells you nothing -- some countries heavily skew the stats.
ermintwang ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:43:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, my point was those stats discount some of the most deadly mass shootings in the world as they don't have the past few years. If they were up to date, they would tell a different story.
It tells you how significantly overrepresented the U.S. is in terms of number of mass shootings is.
The U.S. has more mass shootings than any other country. If only looking at per capita deaths from 2009-2015 explains this away for you, then fine.
I'm not going to quibble over different stats, I was just pointing out you're in a massive bloody glass house if you're an American criticising violence in Swedish society.
Bannakaffalatta1 ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 14:15:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
....This sentence makes no sense.
Natanael_L ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:43:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
For a period of two years a few gangs, mostly motorcycle gangs (not majority immigrants) used some dozen grenades, ALMOST NONE actually hurt people because the were almost only used as a scare tactic. They were used almost exclusively in areas were no people were present. It's basically an unusually stupid fad among the criminals.
Now compare the numbers of violent crime with actual injured victims instead.
https://www.thelocal.se/20180228/why-sweden-is-battling-hand-grenades-and-illegal-weapons
Phimanman ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 14:04:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You must realize, that 'misinformation' is the dumbest term to justify banning content ever.
Samsquanchiz ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:15:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And the rest of reddit is rampant with hate towards all christians, the US, and misinformation. Pretty similar IMO.
Bannakaffalatta1 ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 14:24:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Meh, the Christian hate has never really been filled with that much hate speech. I say this as a Christian.
The US gets criticized a lot but normally loved.
And misinformation deserves rampant hate so I don't see your point.
Samsquanchiz ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 14:32:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy is all. We all know the majority of the content on reddit is controlled to push a certain agenda and anything that doesn't fit that is downvoted to hell. It is all filled with it's own form of hate speech and misinformation to fit that agenda and narrative.
Bannakaffalatta1 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:46:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Just because majority of the people on the site disagree with you doesn't mean it's controlled to push a certain agenda.
Reddit is filled with a younger crowd from the US. Causing them to be more liberal, more critical of religion, and more critical of the US (because they're part of it).
It's not a controlled narrative. It's demographics.
It's really not. Also, nice deflection to whataboutism. "The hate speech on T_D is OK because other parts of Reddit have their own form of hate speech." (Whatever the hell that means)
Samsquanchiz ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:01:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's not what I'm trying to say at all really. I'm not trying to deflect anything or defend anyone. Just my observation is all. Hope you enjoy the rest of your day.
JohnCarpenterLives ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:35:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Take your rape quietly you racist! I'm trying to buy Barbies for my wives!
iNEEDheplreddit ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:05:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Made me google rape capital of europe to see.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:17:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Welcome to the FBI's list! Enjoy your stay.
kn05is ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:12:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, the guy just listed the titles of the posts, not the vile comments within.
Ua_Tsaug ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:41:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, Reddit I don't know if Reddit has always been this fucking right wing, or if I'm just noticing it more now.
Bannakaffalatta1 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:43:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's more that one Sub is prone to brigading. Saw a /r/bestof attacking them and came out in droves to defend it.
MechaSandstar ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 14:33:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
In the thread about the photoshopped image of the guy saying "We'll pull them from your cold dead hands" there are calls for a civil war, with at least one guy begging trump to start one. If that's not a call for violence, what is?
lexrc ยท -35 points ยท Posted at 13:35:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You must be a nazi if you're not triggered by all that hate.
[deleted] ยท -17 points ยท Posted at 13:45:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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Zestyclose_Session ยท -17 points ยท Posted at 14:00:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Weren't you folks harassing school shooting victims a while ago because they understandably didn't like guns?
TED_FING_NUGENT ยท -21 points ยท Posted at 14:08:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Never been on t_d but from what I hear sounds about right for them
Wolphoenix ยท -25 points ยท Posted at 13:57:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Just go to /r/againsthatesubreddits or /r/topmindsofreddit and search for posts from T_D. Then you will see why people call them Nazis.
Hint: it has to do with regurgitation of Nazi propaganda and calling for the deaths of leftists and others almost every other day.
[deleted] ยท 42 points ยท Posted at 14:12:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Wolphoenix ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 14:14:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Go ahead and check for yourself. There are literally over a 1000 examples of Nazi ideals and other far-right ideals and speech being upvoted on T_D
Mordredor ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 14:24:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yet I also see communist and far-left rhetoric on r/all on a daily basis, which could be considered just as "dangerous" as the ideas on the other side of the spectrum. I am not a t_d poster nor do I like the general gist of what's posted there, but why have one but not the other?
Wolphoenix ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:26:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Then go ahead and make a post about how to warn advertisers about Reddit posts calling out capitalism and whatnot. I'm not stopping you. I'm merely pointing out why people consider T_D a Nazi hub
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 14:40:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:55:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:12:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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jayywal ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:32:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
the poster-child white supremacy site. guess which candidate they support fervently?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:50:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
jayywal ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:00:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
yep, cause hillary definitely ran on a platform of outlawing white supremacy altogether, right?
Wolphoenix ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:57:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Have you actually gone to AgainstHateSubreddits, TopMindsOfReddit, ShitWehraboosSay and other subs and searched for content from T_D? Because if you did, you would know there are.
Blaming Jews for the destruction of the white European race and culture seems pretty Nazi to me. In fact, Hitler himself said this is part of his worldview.
Muslim crime rate is below or at the average, no more than other groups.
Yes, they can. Speaking out against crime is not a punishable offence.
No, Britian is not arresting people for speaking out against crimes. In some instances people have been arrested because they made specific threats to groups or people, instead of speaking out against the crimes themselves.
Rape crimes are not "through the roof" in Europe. They are pretty average when compared to most Western regions.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:33:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Are you serious about the Jew thing? Donald Trump supporters love Jews and love Israel. Netanyahu is one of Trumps close world leader friends. We celebrate Judaism on that subreddit.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:17:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Wolphoenix ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:29:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Sweden's population has grown. The quote does not mention crime rape or rape rate, as that would have to take into account population growth. Nor does it mention that Sweden has repeatedly changed their definition of rape and how rape cases are handled. For example, even if a rape complaint turns out not be true, it is still kept on the records as a rape statistic.
If you want to know the actual crime rates, you can check out the detailed statistics published by Sweden themselves over the past 20 years. You will see the number of crimes of rape for example have gone down, as have the convictions.
Also, Gatestone Institute is an actual propaganda outlet, that regularly peddles in fake news.
Not sure what this has to do with blaming migrants or Muslims:
And it also gives the reason:
Again, not sure what this has to do with migrants or Muslims.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:31:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
Wolphoenix ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:36:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
See, you have no evidence they are Muslim, you have no evidence they are migrants, your own links say that other territories are taken into account and say why it has increased, yet you want to blame non-white Muslim migrants.
It's this disregard for actual facts and understanding of legal definitions, legal systems, and statistics that hubs like T_D and far-right groups perpetuate, because they want you and everyone to blame specific non-white groups.
jayywal ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:30:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"If it isn't muslims it must be coincidence"
the guy above you provided all the info for a sound rebuttal but all you have is this. aren't libruls supposed to be the ones that hate facts? aren't libruls the unsteady and mentally unstable ones?
superalienhyphy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:54:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Or, go see for yourself:
r/The_Donald
MakeAmericaSwolAgain ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:14:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Literally all those posts are made by people of those subreddits, screenshotted and posted on there saying "look, here's proof!!!!!"
I browse T_D multiple times a day and I never have seen anything hateful or a call for violence. I know those two subs get those mixed up with the truth, but the truth doesn't care about your feelings.
Pizzadoos ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 14:57:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Why do you want us to make our assessments based on a very limited, selection bias prone, set of data?
[deleted] ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 15:21:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Man Its real obvious which posts in here are brigades from TD.
EagerJewBear ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:54:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I subbed here before TD existed. Does that still make me a brigader here?
[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 15:57:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well, I don't know who you are or what you've posted so how would I know?
GracchiBros ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:48:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Your very prior comment said it was real obvious which posts here were TD brigades. Which should mean then other posts aren't. So you should know by this very same way you identified those really obvious brigades.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:59:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah but I never saw any of that guys posts other than one post asking if I thought he was brigading or not.
not_whiney ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 22:01:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
From the ACLU's own website. Whether you find it objectionaable or repulsive. Free speech is free speech. If they were to remove T_D for being objectionable to sponsors where do you think latestagecapitalism would end up. Where do you think hundreds of other subreddits that don't offend you, but offend the corporations would end up? Standing up for free speech is not when you agree with what they say, it is when you stand up for the right of someone to say something that you find objectionable and repulsive.
Be careful the path you choose. Allowing and pushing the censure of one thing opens the door to your voice being silenced.
prodigy2throw ยท 107 points ยท Posted at 13:47:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You realize you can filter out t_d right? Unless Reddit makes it a default sub I donโt think advertisers really give a fuck
[deleted] ยท 167 points ยท Posted at 14:02:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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prodigy2throw ยท 119 points ยท Posted at 14:05:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Damn you werenโt kidding. Seems like itโs OP full time job
azns123 ยท 80 points ยท Posted at 14:28:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Here's a fun thing to do if you use RES. Every time you see one of those sensationalist anti Trump posts appear on the front page, tag the user. If you browse /r/all a decent amount you'll see them appear multiple times a week. Then if you check their accounts you'll see that it's all the same, 1 year old and over a million comment and link karma. Then you can make an inference, do these people have absolutely no lives, or are they paid to do this all day?
Sherrydon ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 16:17:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This site is a political battleground. Both sides are spending a lot of money to get share of view and opinion. Its a pretty fucking horrible user experience to be honest.
superalienhyphy ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 19:04:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Let's be real. Only one side is allowed to push their agenda on the front page.
Papasmurf345 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 15:56:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How does one get paid to post on Reddit all day? Lucky bastards
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 18:12:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Marketing
Political action groups though to be in the democratic parties you gave to be a "nerd virgin who doesn't go out"
Ekaros ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:56:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe Russians aren't only ones with army of trolls... A part of billion plus pays for lot of trolling...
EagerJewBear ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:09:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I did notice this last time I got into a discussion with one of these posters. u/2deadmoose fits your description pretty closely.
Nestramutat- ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 14:38:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Tbh it probably actually is.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:44:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Them and /u/CompactedConscience.
CompactedConscience ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:10:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Soros doesn't pay me to sit on my ass all day. He wants to see results.
WelletAtWork ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:40:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Jesus christ your post history. How do you not go insane talking about nothing but politics all day on Reddit?
CompactedConscience ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:19:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
???
The voices in my head and I feel energized by our work. Why would it make us go insane?
Graysonj1500 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:19:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
because the DT is the best content on this site.
MechaSandstar ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:45:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Gee, it's almost as if he's allowed to have an opinion, and advocate for it.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:05:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
MechaSandstar ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 16:19:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's almost as if I don't give a fuck about winning over the hate mongers in the_dotard. Oh, no wait. It's exactly like that. (spoilers: they think anything that doesn't allow them to do whatever they want, whenever they want, is oppressive.)
bat_mayn ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:36:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's not about that. They want to sanitize reddit because they want to stop other people from viewing things they don't want them to view.
They see reddit as a political battleground, and they feel they'll lose soldiers if people are exposed to content posted by their "enemy".
JimmyDeSanta420 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:14:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And what does it say about their ideology if its own supporters have that little faith in it?
b0utch ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 16:43:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But T_d love Israel. How are they Nazi?
LolTriedToReBlockMe ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:47:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They'd probably would say something like this: "T_D loves Israel because it's a place where all the Jews can go and that will make their country free of Jews."
Which I think is stupid, since T_D says that Israel is the bastion of Democracy in the Middle East, and that they love the Jews and others who made it possible.
[deleted] ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 14:49:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 16:29:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 17:01:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It is. But hard censorship of rightist material on the internet is a recent phenomenon exasperated by the 2016 elections. People on here need to grow up and accept that opposing POVs is healthy for our society .
Starting to feel like 1984 up in this bitch.
Khmer_Orange ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:48:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Opposing POVs, like that certain races are inherently inferior to others or are congenitally predisposed to crime, are good for society.
RedScorpion08 ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 18:04:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Can you give any examples of that from t_d?
Spez. Apparently not.
memtiger ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 17:58:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I don't frequent The_Donald since i block all political posts. Can you show me some recent threads (not replies) where they say certain races are inferior?
Btw, saying "no to immigration" is not saying a race is inferior, so those types of posts don't count.
PM_me_storm_drains ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 17:56:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Opposing POVs are healthy indeed. Hate is not. Advocating death and destruction is not ok.
iwantedtopay ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 22:25:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That sounds more like r/politics. t_d is mostly just cheerleading Trump.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:09:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Can you give any examples of that from t_d?
kent2441 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 01:18:46 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You've never seen T_D advocating for physical removal?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 07:37:46 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You said advocating for death and destruction.
kent2441 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:39:56 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What do you think physical removal is?
RepublicansAreTrash ยท -29 points ยท Posted at 17:36:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Republican viewpoints are not healthy for society in any way, look around you for the evidence numbnuts
staystressfree ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:46:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Liberal ideas led to communism and starvation
RepublicansAreTrash ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 17:52:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Conservative ideas led to world war and genocide
Bnjoec ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:58:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Okay thatโs gonna be a hard sell
RepublicansAreTrash ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:01:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's just as correct as "liberal ideas led to communism and starvation" if we're really going to go through history to label the perpetrators of crimes against humanity through the lens of the modern American two party system.
More accurately, conservatives just fucked up modern day America.
Selvon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:17:06 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I got banned from t_d for pointing out that guns don't reduce rape, that america has the similar or higher rates of crime and such.
This was in a thread where their response to the latest gun shooting was that Britain still has knifes and acid attacks. and that removing the guns would cause crimerate to go up and thre'd be rape everywhere etc
covor ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 17:46:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There is nothing wrong with it, except that it makes fun of the SJWs and Marxists. And they defend most of Trump's stuff.
I joined t_d a month or so ago, and I really can't see any racism, hate, etc. Unless if you are a 'microagressed' snowflake SJW. If you don't believe it, just go and give it a try.
Hi_My_Name_Is_Dave ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 17:55:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah if you are part of the hate and bigotry, youโre not gonna see it as existing.
covor ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:57:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Hate and bigotry for not being a Stalinist like you?
Sketchyv2 ยท 195 points ยท Posted at 13:55:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
I think the main point of argument is that T_D is portrayed as a Nazi white supremacist safe haven full of hate and evil when in reality, you visit T_D and see nothing but shitposting, jokes, memes, and a lot of support for the president. Any content that is against t&s is quickly taken down.
I feel the reason a lot of people, mainly those who are in the middle of the road or moderate left leaning, are starting to support Trump or at least back him, is because the left side of the political spectrum has gone full insanity hysteria mode to the point where they employ the same tactics they preach to hate so much.
As a non American, I'd say I would have 100% voted Obama in '08 and most likely Clinton in '16. But after seeing the left decay into the mindset of making a massive deal out of anything even remotely related to Trump, censoring any conservative opinions under the guise of "it's racist and hate speech" even when blatantly not, I'm honestly not that surprised Trump won, and even less surprised he's gaining popularity.
As others have pointed out, there is large amounts of hate in non conservative subs as well. r/politics being a good example.
All in all it just comes off as hypocritic where the left scream and shout about how bad racism, fascism, sexism etc are, and yet happily use those tactics against those who don't side with, defending those tactics as "OK when we do it because they're the bad guys"
magus678 ยท 58 points ยท Posted at 15:01:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I've actually found it kind of impressive how quickly they've managed to go full tilt.
I sincerely doubt I will ever vote Republican, and certainly never for this president. Presumably, my vote should be quite easy to win for the Democrats.
But they are still, somehow, managing to bungle the easiest layup in the history of politics.
I don't need them to be perfect; sadly, I'm stuck just choosing the "least bad." I'll probably vote Democrat the next chance I have but it will only be because the opposition is so bad. I could be easily convinced to stay home next time.
GeordiLaFuckinForge ยท 47 points ยท Posted at 15:17:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The 2016 election was a free throw. It should've been easy but Democrats still missed. Now it's a wide open fast break and the layup doesn't look good. It's infuriating to watch. It's like nobody realizes if you treat people with respect you can get through, if you call them an inbred racist Nazi you close that door forever.
[deleted] ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 15:50:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"Hmm, crazy endless insults didn't work."
"Let's try more insults!"
randomtask2005 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:04:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The Democrats put Shaq at the free throw line. Kinda says a lot really. They're shaqtin-a-fool.
EagerJewBear ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 16:23:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is what's the most disappointing for me. In real life all my liberal friends are fantastic but liberal leadership seem to be demonizing me for thinking differently than them.
sandbrah ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 15:59:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Your vote should be an easy one for the dems? Maybe the "Trump supporters are white men with small penises" signs at the rally yesterday will finally convince you right? Pretty persuasive discourse from the left. /s
magus678 ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 16:25:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. Unless there are very serious changes in the party, they'll have me for exactly as long as it takes to Un-Trump the White House, and no longer.
It's all quite sad really. I was hoping 2016 was going to be a bit of a come to Jesus moment for both parties, maybe get some serious housecleaning done after some introspection.
Instead, Trump actually won, and the Democrats are doubling down, somehow regressing even more. What a sad state of affairs.
JimmyDeSanta420 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:54:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It wasn't that quick. They've been on their way there for the better part of a decade.
Some would argue that that is part of the reason we have the Cheeto-In-Chief now.
GracchiBros ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:00:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
While the left has gone insane it's not done a single thing to bring me closer to the right's long enduring insanity.
Cacafuego ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 14:49:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Not sure where you're getting the idea that this is happening. Trump has had consistently abysmal approval ratings. There is no shifting of moderates or centrist liberals to support him.
There is a lot of distaste among more centrist liberals for pro-censorship leftists, but that has been the way of things since PC culture took off in the 80s and 90s.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 21:20:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I voted for Obama twice. also voted for Trump and will vote for him again. He is the only one with an agenda. Average Americans don't want to pay high taxes and have sanctuary cities.
BBQ_HaX0r ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:40:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's amazing to me that people who live half way across the country or in places without much immigration have such strong feelings about it half the country away. Like who gives a shit what Los Angeles is doing? I live in NYC, why should I concern myself with them? Same thing with people in Upstate NY who get mad at illegal immigration in southern border states.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:53:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I live in a sanctuary state. I want immigration reform so the people who live all around me donโt have to live as second class citizens.
Cacafuego ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:27:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Most candidates have an agenda. Like maintain America's status in the world, so we can exert soft power instead of military force. Or participate in large, regional trade deals so that we can compete with powerhouses like China. Increase our influence in Asia. Improve our infrastructure and public education so that everyone has an opportunity. Keep taxes low, but make sure that the extraordinarily wealthy contribute a fair amount.
Trump only seems like he has an agenda because his proposals are only 1 sentence long. And they stand in stark contrast to reasoned, nuanced plans that liberals and conservatives alike can support.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:32:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No his agenda is the complete opposite of everything you just said. The left wants the Obama / Bush agenda which is just insane. Trump wants Immigration, tax and healthcare reform. Real reform. No bandaids. Surgery.
Cacafuego ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:48:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Is that right? Immigration reform like "more people from Norway?" But seriously, the only important thing he has done on immigration is reverse the Dreamer policy so that congress has to fix the issue - but they haven't, so it was a bad plan.
Healthcare? Same plan. Starve Obamacare so that it's no longer functional and hope that congress will replace it. But that's harder than it looked. So he's stuck, and a lot of people who depend on Obamacare are screwed over.
Taxes? What reform has been delivered, other than a huge, permanent corporate tax cut and benefits for the wealthy? Lower tax for the highest brackets, tax-free savings for private school parents, gutting of the estate tax? They threw us some crumbs, reminding me of W's stupid tax refund checks. Reform is about changing the system, not getting a few hundred dollars back for the next couple of years.
Universal health care is reform. Standardized, efficient, secure immigration is reform. Fair tax policy that eliminates huge loopholes is reform. That's what we were on our way to. Now it's chucked in the toilet because Trump said he could supply the best reform, and he hasn't done a damn thing.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:04:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No he wants immigration reform legislation. Merit based immigration, No more immigration lottery programs or chain migration and strong border security. He is asking for those things and as a compromise will give the 1.8 million dreamers amnesty. He wants our immigration policies to be more like a normal first world country.
Healthcare. Donโt force people to buy health insurance. Create more competition by opening up health insurance markets across state lines. Heath savings accounts, etc.
The average American will save in the thousands. Small business owners get the 20% discount on their passthrough income. As a business owner myself I will pay half of what I paid last year. Lowering the corporate tax just makes us more competitive with the rest of the world. Letโs not mention doubling the standard decision and doubling the child tax credit. The only people who suffer from this are people who pay high SALT.
First. We werenโt on our way to universal health care. Obamacare was written by the health insurance companies and was a sweetheart deal that allowed them to keep their monopolies and force Americans to buy their product.
Second. Immigration reform would be standardized, efficient and secure.
The tax policy is fair and it encourages business. You canโt solve all your problems by just taxing the rich because theyโll find a way not to pay or they will just straight up leave.
Our country is in phenomenal shape right now and it is rife with jobs and opportunity.
Cacafuego ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:15:39 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Yeah, I'm fine with immigration reform, but he hasn't put forward any ideas that are going to pass the Republican-controlled congress. Again, he's got a one-sentence agenda, so it can sound like a nice, clean reform, but it's not. Immigrants are more successful when they have family members to help them. Highly-skilled immigrants often have to be re-certified here and are difficult to employ. One of the reasons that so many other countries seem to have more job-based immigration is because they have way more temporary workers, which is not a system to be emulated.
We have border security, and Trump's multi-billion dollar wall is just a campaign promise he made to people like my aunt, who hates Mexicans even though she's probably never seen one. Hire more border guards, if that makes people feel better, but the wall will be a boondoggle, an eyesore, an eminent domain issue, and a monument to racism.
Obama didn't want the individual mandate, initially. In fact, he argued over this in the primary with Hillary. He became convinced of its necessity. He, unfortunately, backed away from the single-payer system because he still thought he could make a bi-partisan deal. That's why the insurance companies are still involved. But he got us closer to universal health care than ever before. Now we know that we can still get healthcare with pre-existing conditions, that we shouldn't have caps on our insurance, and that we can have all this without turning Communist overnight.
Opening up health insurance across state lines is a recipe for disaster. It lets insurance companies based in states with the loosest regulations cheat people across the entire nation, driving responsible companies out of business. Health savings accounts are nice when people can save.
But neither of those are reform - those are bandaids. Reform is building on Obamacare so that healthcare is truly universal. So that people aren't routinely bankrupted by illness. So that we don't have to bear the burden of so many uninsured emergency room visits. Ideally, we would even get rid of the idea of employer-funded healthcare.
The tax policy is not at all fair. I agree that it encourages business, and an adjustment to the corporate rate was overdue, but people and businesses need to contribute to this country or they will ruin themselves. The reason we can amass wealth and not have it stolen from us is because we have decent infrastructure, education, and police. We believe that we can get a job and do okay. But that's fading away as the wealth gap widens. People will start leaving the US, not when the taxes are too high, but when we stop having skilled workers, free trade with other nations, and the ability to send our products everywhere. Most importantly, companies need Americans with enough wealth to buy their products.
Our company is in phenomenal shape right now. It's on the same trajectory is has been for many years. We have yet to see the impact of the tax plan. Frankly, I am surprised we haven't taken a nosedive yet. Maybe the tariffs will do that.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:58:37 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yes he absolutely has. The Raise ACT would pass. sorry if you think he meant ending all chain migration. That is not the case. Immediate family members would still have that opportunity. Just not distant relatives like cousins or aunts and uncles.
Literally 100% of border security agents say that a wall in certain areas on the border is essential to securing the border. The wall is justa tiny part of the rest of the security measures that will go into it. There is nothing racist about it.
Did you know that 80% of women who cross the border are sexually assaulted and Obama declared the southern border a humanitarian crisis? If border security says we need to build a wall on certain portions of the border to end this crisis, then I tend to agree with the,
Anecdotally, I have a dozen illegal immigrant friends who have crossed the border multiple times in their lives. They have told me how dangerous it is. Most recently my one friend crossed the border and was kidnapped and blackmailed in when he got to Arizona. I do not condone that kind of behavior.
Funny you call it bipartisan when not one single republican voted for it.
It is also a horrible idea to have two monopolies in each state that can gouge their customers whatever they want and allowing zero alternatives.
And yet even under our system the US healthcare system is the best in the world. Doctors make the money they make because of insurance. If the government was paying the doctors salary, there would be much less incentive to pursue that career.
What do you think this whole trade war is about. WE CANNOT our products everywhere due to unfair trade deals.
We are contributing the same amount because although the tax rate is lower, we are making more money.
The tariffs will literally equal the playing field and make it easier for small companies to sell products to the global market. At the moment, we have ZERO access.
Cacafuego ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:46:17 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think so, because it is harmful to businesses, so a lot of Republicans won't vote for it. It is a stupid bill. I can't see any benefit to it, unless you just don't like immigrants.
Then I don't see how it differs, practically, from the current system. Full citizens can currently sponsor their brothers and sisters - is that the huge difference you're talking about?
That was when we had a huge influx of refugees traveling all the way from Central America, through Mexico, and into the US. That was an relatively brief and unusual circumstance. But I don't see how building a wall and limiting immigration would help those women, who would not be able to get into the US after fleeing their homes and being assaulted en route.
I didn't. I said he thought a bipartisan deal was possible, but he couldn't get a single Republican to vote for it even though it was based on Republican ideas. He should have gone for a single-payer system, in hindsight.
At least they'll be regulated. Better to get rid of the insurance companies altogether, I think.
Yet US citizens get some of the worst care in the first world. And it bankrupts us.
That's the theory. I'll believe it when I see it. What I heard from the CBO and others is that the predicted growth rates are entirely unreasonable. And I have yet to see any explanation for the repeal of the estate tax.
I don't understand this, and I admit I may be ignorant about some aspects of global trade, but the US sells tons of goods to the countries we are currently threatening with tariffs. What does it mean to have zero access? We are allowed to sell there, and the governments typically do not impose substantial tariffs. That will change if there is a trade war.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:27:28 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I do not have time to got through all this with you right now but I appreciate the thoughtful responses.
I will address the last point about trade though. I own an ecommerce business and we will ship worldwide. However, it is next to impossible for us to ship to other countries because most countries have import tariffs and VATs on imports. This limits my customer base to the US. Meanwhile those very same countries can send us anything that they want without having to worry about those import tariffs. It is uneven.
Cacafuego ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:05:26 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Likewise, good talk. Appreciate you taking the time to share your perspective.
YimannoHaffavoa ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 16:51:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Anecdotal, but I switched from left-leaning to right-leaning (in the sense that previously liberal values like freedom of speech and meritocracy have been somehow contorted into right wing values) for the very reason stated above. The left has gone fucking bat-shit and I can't consider myself a liberal and still support them. So, I turned to Trump as a way of drawing a line in the sand. Enough I say. I will not support your behaviour any longer. I will support the enemy, because at least they call you out for what you really are.
The left stole the label of liberal from me, and I resent them for it. Enough to support the 'other side' until such a time that they aren't fucking asshole anymore.
BBQ_HaX0r ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:35:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The left in America is slowly moving away from liberalism and towards 'progressivism' which is somewhat startlingly more authoritarian. A disgust of free speech and dislike of due process is startling. These are hallmark of western liberal traditions that have been seemingly sacrificed by the left.
Cacafuego ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 18:23:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Curious to know how limiting immigration based on country of origin rather than skills supports this. Or hiring your family and loyal friends.
I like a free marketplace of ideas, but everyone has the right to shun people for speech that they find objectionable.
I don't see how anyone who professes to be liberal, in the true sense of the word, can support someone who does everything he can to threaten and weaken independent press, and who continually praises authoritarian regimes.
You are "supporting the enemy" because you don't like a minority contingent of the left wing. Those people have always been there. They didn't steal "liberal" from you. The consistent barrage of conservative negativity around the word and it's associations ("card-carrying member of the ACLU") has done that.
YimannoHaffavoa ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 20:13:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not referring to specific pieces of legislation, I'm referring to the espousing of identity politics by the far left. They're degrading politics into group identities instead of the individual, which is something I think is wrong. Period. It is a fundamental belief of mine that people should be judged by their merit and character as an individual, not based on which group they belong to.
I don't disagree with this. It's when people try to shut down civil discussions and suppress others' speech because they find what's being said objectionable. That's wrong. It's what I see people on the left doing more and more.
They most certainly have fucking not thank you very much. It has been getting worse with time. The polarization is worse than it used to be, and I hold far left people accountable to a significant portion of it. A liberal used to mean the things I've already explained, and I am proud to call my self a liberal if that's what the word means. Everybody sees liberals as the far left wing ideologues now, though. This has become the case, it was not always the case. So yeah, yeah they did steal it.
GracchiBros ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 19:04:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Just because the left has gone against the freedom of speech doesn't mean it's a right wing value now. Go burn a flag and see what they think still. It just means we have no major party that support that and many other values now.
And the downvote doesn't change that.
YimannoHaffavoa ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:17:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Your concept of a republican is far-right. Freedom of speech is now right. It's because the discourse of the left has stretched so far into insanity that the whole Overton window has shifted along with it.
I'm not talking about republican vs. democrat, I'm talking about fundamental differences in political ideology. It's not just America, I'm Canadian for fuck's sake.
I never upvote or downvote anything, and I certainly didn't do it to yours.
GracchiBros ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:31:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Sorry for assuming American. I did so because of the liberal label being stolen comment not thinking that would apply in Canada also. I'm sick of these labels being twisted for political agendas.
Sorry again, but when I go back and see if I really botched a comment pretty soon after I post and when it's 0 before I even look, it's more often than not the person that got the inbox reply.
Nuntius_Mortis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:10:49 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Funny that you mention the Overton window. The irony is that in the US (I know that you aren't American but this post is still talking about US politics) the Overton window is heavily slanted towards the right, especially when it comes to the economy. So, pretty much the opposite of what you're describing is happening.
YimannoHaffavoa ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:34:01 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's not what I've been seeing at all. Perhaps you have a different definition of what 'right' means.
Nuntius_Mortis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:57:59 on March 29, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I was talking about economics and it's pretty clear what right-wing economics are. Unfettered capitalism, trickle down economics, no worker rights, tax cuts for the rich and so on. The US have always been an extremely right-wing country when it comes to economics and the situation is only getting worse for your working class.
YimannoHaffavoa ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:34:31 on March 29, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
We aren't discussing economic policy, we're discussing the Overton window which is the range of ideology which is considered acceptable to discuss.
As far as I can tell, it is indeed shifted to the left because socialism and communism aren't considered 'bad' or unacceptable to discuss (see the public perception of Bernie Sanders in the media in the primaries).
Conversely the right-wing equivalents of right-wing socialism (read: crony capitalism, or what you're describing) and fascism are considered 'bad' and unacceptable to discuss (see the public perception of Trump/right-wingers in the media).
Simply untrue. The capitalism in the U.S. prior to it becoming an oligarchy was awesome and a true implementation of centrist economic theory. It wasn't until the 80's that it started shifting towards right-wing territory, and even so it's still derided in the public discourse as being bad.
The fact that communism and socialism are considered acceptable to discuss while crony-capitalism and fascism are considered unacceptable to discuss makes it pretty clear where the Overton windows lies.
Nuntius_Mortis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:30:21 on March 29, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yes and that includes economic policy.
Bernie Sanders was demonized as a dangerous communist by a large part of the US media despite the fact that he's nowhere close to that. Sanders would be viewed as a very mainstream social democrat in most European countries and yet the US media considered him a radical. That's how far to the right the Overton window is over there.
1) "Right-wing socialism" is not a thing.
2) Yes, Trump was so considered so "bad" and "unacceptable" to discuss that the media talked about him 24/7 before the election. He was so considered so "bad" that he ended up being the President.
Capitalism was, is and will always be a right-wing ideology. It is deeply hierarchical and anti-egalitarian so it can never be anything but right-wing.
Again, communism and socialism are not considered acceptable topics of discussion in US media. If they did then Bernie Sanders wouldn't be demonized for the same kind of political beliefs that would be considered mainstream in most European countries.
YimannoHaffavoa ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:56:44 on March 29, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Perception of discussion and economic policy, not economic policy itself. I made that pretty clear.
We've reached the point of trying to argue subjective perception, which means this discussion has run it's course.
I already explained that this is another word for crony capitalism.
You mean the media that talked 24/7 about how bad and unacceptable he was, and continues to do so now? Further, he won in spit of being considered bad by the majority of people due to not winning the popular vote.
Capitalism (not your weird brand of pseudo-capitalism you keep trying to pass off as the real thing) is egalitarian by definition. People are judged by merit in capitalistic theory, nothing more. I'm not even going to address the hierarchical aspect because all social species on earth are inherently hierarchical. You can not escape hierarchy because doing so results in tyranny. People will always rank others. Hierarchy has been present in every iteration of governance that has ever been tried. Even socialism and communism.
Further, individual freedom is the cornerstone of capitalism which is actually a centrist-left ideal. I'll give you the point that capitalism impedes equality of opportunity, but the U.S. government tried pretty hard to mitigate this in spite of their crony-capitalism.
We've reached the point of trying to argue subjective perception, which means this discussion has run it's course.
Nuntius_Mortis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:18:39 on March 30, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Sure. It still doesn't change the fact that economic policy is part of what's talked about.
Nope. His policies (just like any other politician's policies) can be categorized objectively. His program was similar with a lot of social democrats here in Europe.
Which is not a thing either. This is simply capitalism in his real-world form.
Yes. They still gave him a crapton of publicity and they're liable for his election.
1) People are NOT judged by merit in capitalistic theory. Capitalism isn't meritocratic.
2) Capitalism is not egalitarian. It couldn't be egalitarian because it forces a divide between the people who own the means of production and those who don't. There is nothing egalitarian about that.
I'm not well-versed in biology so I cannot comment on the social structures of other animal species. What I can comment on is that humans have an ability that most other animal species don't. We have the ability to think critically. Therefore, there is no reason to limit ourselves to the same social structures that the rest of the animal kingdom uses.
That's just your opinion. There is no proof of that, empirical or otherwise.
Nope. The few times that socialism was actually practiced (we never got to communism) hierarchy was non-existent. I'm talking about Revolutionary Catalonia during the Spanish Civil War and the Free Territory during the Ukrainian Revolution. The Soviet Union and the states that they backed never got to practice socialism or communism. They remained in the state capitalism stage.
Individual freedom is not a cornerstone of capitalism. Capitalism is, first and foremost, about economics. It doesn't place a heavy emphasis on social issues which is why you can have capitalists with a very conservative attitude on social issues and capitalists with a very progressive attitude on social issues.
See reply #2.
YimannoHaffavoa ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:32:21 on March 30, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
I never claimed otherwise, but ok. It's a debate of public perception and tolerance of ideas, not objective reality.
Public ๐๐ฟ perception ๐๐ฟ and ๐๐ฟ tolerance ๐๐ฟ of ๐๐ฟ ideas ๐๐ฟ not ๐๐ฟ objective ๐๐ฟreality.
Patently false, and the fields of political science and economics would like to have a stern word with you.
Negative publicity. Negative public perception. Discussion surrounding his policies were cast in a negative light by most people in the public discourse. This is a very important detail, which you have conveniently failed to acknowledge.
They are by definition. The best firm get's the most consumers. The worst firm goes out of business. The most valued labour get's the highest wage. People who provide no value get no wage. Really simple stuff.
Fair point, on second consideration I do disagree with egalitarianism being a component of capitalism. However I also think egalitarianism has no place in any economic theory whatsoever, because people are not the same. They don't provide the same value to society. By law however the U.S. IS egalitarian so this is kind of a moot point in hindsight. You can argue if the law represent reality all you want though, I guess. Go nuts.
You're missing the point. Hierarchical social and value structures are so deeply embedded in the biology of social animals (humans included) that no society on earth has ever existed that didn't have one. By your own logic, you don't have any friends, because everyone is your friend right? No need to place a higher social value on anyone in particular, right? They all provide the same value to your life. To have society, you need social hierarchy. The alternative is anarchy. Humans have it, chimpanzees have it, horses have it, fucking lobsters have it. It's a requirement for being a social creature that lives in a community, not a function of it. Yes humans have the capacity for rational thought, but we're still very much subject to the whims of our biological instincts.
Once again, do you have friends? Do you have people who's company you value more than others? Did your parents have an equal level of authority over you as that couple down the road? To eliminate hierarchy, you would have to treat every single person on earth the same. You will never do that, nobody else will, and the only way to make it happen is to force everyone to do it under threat of violence. Do you really think the enforcer is on the same level as everyone else?
Ah yes, total anarchy. Great system. On paper there was no hierarchy, maybe. People still answered to others though. Murder and theft still lowered your social hierarchy rank. People still favoured the company of some people more than others, and that fucking weird kid in the back of the class was still a social outcast. You can't escape hierarchy unless you entirely disengage from society. See point #7.
You're claiming voluntary exchange of property (i.e. individual freedom of choice) isn't a cornerstone of capitalism? Perhaps I should have been more clear. You can't buy what you want in a socialist society. You buy what the government says is okay to buy.
See reply #2.
Nuntius_Mortis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:31:34 on April 1, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So, what matters is how your detractors call your policies and not what your policies actually are?
Give me one example of real life capitalism that is egalitarian.
I'm not acknowledging it for two reasons:
1) What counts as negative publicity for the supporters of one party, counts as positive publicity for the supporters of the other party.
2) Negative publicity is still publicity.
That's not how it works in real life. Capitalism is rife with corruption in real life.
And here's where we fundamentally disagree. It's nice to see that you have eschewed the veil of egalitarianism, though. Not everyone has the guts to admit that.
Is it? Go tell this to the communities that lose members to unjustified police shootings every now and then and see what they'll reply.
You're the one that's missing the point. Social organization doesn't have to be hierarchical. Horizontal social organization exists and has been proven to be very successful.
Again, that's not how it works. You're misunderstanding my position on fundamental levels.
Anarchism, not anarchy. There is a huge difference between the two.
You can read George Orwell's Homage To Catalonia if you want a first-hand impression of how Revolutionary Catalonia worked. I'll link you to a thread that has a bunch of quotes from that book -> https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/1q7duh/orwell_on_anarchism/?st=j4ftydag&sh=fad4284d
No. I'm claiming that private property isn't freedom. It's pretty much the opposite of freedom.
You'll notice something in those socialist societies I mentioned above. They didn't really have what you'd call a government. You see, the final stage of socialism (and that final stage is also known as communism) is a stateless, moneyless and classless society. So, no the "government" isn't going to tell you what is okay to buy. The government will quite simply not exist.
YimannoHaffavoa ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:03:52 on April 2, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
In terms of the Overton window, yes. Thank you. That's what I've been trying to explain to you this entire time. Glad you've finally got it.
Norway. (They are not socialist. They are a capitalist welfare-state, just like the U.S. and Canada. They simply have a more effective implementation.)
Coincidentally, so is socialism and communism. 'Muh not real communism', etc. As humans we strive to apply the best theoretical frameworks to our day-to-day lives, and capitalism wins out across the board in this regard. Look at Norway, Sweden, or pre-80's U.S. for some examples.
Again, Overton window. You seem to have careened into an entirely separate discussion, god only knows why.
I am egalitarian to a fault. It just has no place in economics. Maybe in a fantasy-land without scarcity, but that doesn't exist yet. 'Guts' lmao, it takes guts to say that an economy shouldn't be based around merit. That's insane.
Moot point. It is, by law. Objective fact. You can argue the effectiveness of this as much as you can argue the effectiveness of 'muh real socialism'.
Yes, by definition it does. Much like the U.S. being egalitarian, what's horizontal 'on paper' and what actually happens are two different things. Much like actual socialism and 'muh real socialism' ;).
I assure you I'm not. You're just too dense to understand what I'm saying, or too much of an ideologue to care.
*Ah yes, anarchism. Great system. On paper there was no hierarchy, maybe.
Anarchism lends itself to anarchy. Look at chimpanzee tribes for an example of anarchist societies. (Spoiler, the dominant chimpanzee uses violence to establish a rudimentary social hierarchy).
Read it, would rather live in the forest than that shit-hole. And they still had social hierarchy. They still had laws.
'Along with the collectivization of industry and transport there was an attempt to set up the rough beginnings of a workers' government by means of local committees, workers' patrols to replace the old pro-capitalist police forces, workers' militias based on the trade-unions, and so forth."
Freedom is being able to act without undue or unjust constraints. I consider it unjust to not be allowed to own things. If you disagree feel free to burn down your house an move to a commune. You can already live in the kind of society you espouse as superior. Ironically enough you're only free to do so because of capitalism.
For the same reason the alpha chimpanzee established a social hierarchy with violence, this is never an attainable state. Once again, if you think it's so great move to a commune.
Nuntius_Mortis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:13:28 on April 3, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But doesn't that also mean that since Trump was categorized as a far-right white supremacist by his detractors and he got elected then his views are considered acceptable and thus fall within the Overton window?
We definitely agree that Norway is not socialist. I don't think that they can be considered egalitarian but they're definitely closer to it than the US.
I mean, Orwell lived it and he didn't see any corruption in Revolutionary Catalonia. And keep in mind that Orwell wasn't even an anarchist. He was a democratic socialist that just saw how the anarcho-syndicalist implementation worked over there and came to admire it.
Isn't the fact that he was elected President proof that he was within the Overton window?
And as I said, this is where we disagree.
I don't know enough about the specifics of the US legal system to comment on whether it's egalitarian by law or not. All I know is that according to everything I read/hear about it, that's certainly not how it is implemented.
As someone who has personal experience with horizontal organization I can assure you that you're wrong.
Anarchism lends itself to anarchy. Look at chimpanzee tribes for an example of anarchist societies. (Spoiler, the dominant chimpanzee uses violence to establish a rudimentary social hierarchy).
Are you seriously comparing a political ideology with chimpanzee tribes?
1) Horizontal social organization.
2) The existence of laws doesn't go against anarchism. Anarchism is by definition stateless, classless and in most of its branches moneyless but it isn't necessarily lawless.
Here is a great video debunking this and many other misconceptions about anarchism -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5BFYxeyLZA
The relevant part starts at 13:11
Did I talk about owning things? No, I didn't. I talked about private property. You're talking about personal property. There is a distinction between the two.
YimannoHaffavoa ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:04:04 on April 3, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, because as I said earlier he lost the popular vote by a considerable margin. This indicates the general sentiment amoung the population is that of disagreement. That, coupled with the overwhelming negative publicity throughout his campaign and even now surely highlights how silly this supposition is.
Norway (but more generally Scandinavia) is one of the most egalitarian societies in the world. If they're not considered egalitarian then one wonders if such a thing is a realistic goal to strive for.
I think it's disingenuous to argue for the benefits of socialism as an alternative to capitalism by using anecdotal accounts of one man's time in a small region of peasants to justify it's implementation on a national or global scale. The only examples of socialism/communism implementations at scales this large are ones which ended in catastrophe and millions of deaths. It's like how direct democracy sounds much better than representational, but ceases the be an effective system outside of small communities.
See point 1, also see his approval ratings.
Ok.
Nobody can be discriminated against for any reason outside of their control, or for their religion or political beliefs. Once again, implementation and theory are two very different things, but it's the theory that dictates the window of what's considered acceptable to talk about or propose legislation for.
I'd like to see this organization where everyone works independently and without any oversight whatsoever. Once you're hired, you can't be fired. No sir. Further, hiring is done by either randomly selecting candidates or by a direct vote amoung all employees.
No, I'm seriously comparing the inherent social hierarchy found in humans to that found in chimpanzees, because the underlying biological phenomena is the same and is identifiable in every social animal on earth.
Laws by their very nature create define the state. The only way to enforce laws is by a monopoly on violence, and that can never be achieved without a entity that enforces this violence, the state. Doesn't matter what form a society takes, if it has laws, it is a state.
This simply isn't true. It doesn't even make logical sense, when you think about it. If you have personal property, only you have control over it. It is by definition, private.
Nuntius_Mortis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:00:16 on April 4, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yes but he won the Electoral College so he's president. And ever since he was elected his positions are becoming more and more accepted which is why there has been a rise in attacks from white supremacists.
I agree that Scandinavian societies are among the most egalitarian in the world. That doesn't necessarily make them egalitarian, though. It just means that the rest of the world is so unequal that they almost seem egalitarian in comparison.
As for whether egalitarianism is a realistic or not, then it's quite simple for me. Egalitarianism is realistic but it depends on the economic model that the society is built upon. Egalitarianism cannot really exist under a capitalist economic model since capitalism is anti-egalitarian.
Catalonia hasn't been a small region of peasants ever since the second half of the nineteenth century. Orwell spent most of his time in Barcelona and the Aragon front (his time in the Aragon front being spent in Alcubierre and Huesca). Alcubierre is indeed small and rural but Huesca and especially Barcelona do not fit that bill.
We're arguing two different things. You're talking about the theory and I'm talking about the implementation.
You're talking about hiring, firing and employees which quite simply do not exist as concepts in a stateless, moneyless and classless society.
The underlying biological phenomena may be the same but humans have capabilities that other social animals do not have. We have used those capabilities to create a civilization spanning the whole planet (and looking to expand in other planets too). We can continue using those capabilities to progress as a species and further differentiate ourselves from our primate relatives.
You didn't watch the video I posted, did you?
Once again, private property and personal property are two different things.
Here's a Wikipedia article about it -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_property
Here's a quote from that article:
Here's a video about it -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eknoQYrgq60
Here's a reddit thread about it -> https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/4r3qqj/difference_between_personal_property_and_private/?st=jfkpaplc&sh=e1a66287
YimannoHaffavoa ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:17:03 on April 5, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Negative trend of approval rating since the election has determined that this is a lie.
At this point you're cutting off your nose to spit your face.
.As for whether egalitarianism is a realistic or not, then it's quite simple for me. Egalitarianism is realistic but it depends on the economic model that the society is built upon. Egalitarianism cannot really exist under a capitalist economic model since capitalism is anti-egalitarian.
We've already established why this is incorrect, and why socialism/communism not only won't improve the situation, but will make it worse. I like running in circles though so please continue forever.
I guess we have different definitions of small regions of peasants.
Exactly. You're cutting off your nose to spite your face.
They do however exist in a horizontal organization, which is what I said. I didn't say the other thing.
Once again, we've been over this and established why this simply isn't the case. Once again, feel free to continue because I enjoy talking in circles.
I did, you didn't address my point though.
This is a fundamental difference in ideology. What you've said are identical in my eyes, and in a capitalist systems. Socialists would have you believe otherwise, but this is a matter of belief, not objective fact. You conveniently left out
from your quotes.
Now, I implore you to continue to talk in circles.
Nuntius_Mortis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:57:57 on April 8, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Once again, attacks from white supremacists are on the rise. This is a fact -> https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/white-supremacist-murders-2017-report_us_5a5f59b0e4b0ee2ff32c4bea
Their attacks being on the rise either means that more people are joining their ranks (hence their ideology becoming more accepted by the public) or that they are emboldened exactly because their ideas are more accepted than they were used to.
We haven't established anything. You have just presented your opinion on it. You are free to have your own opinion but that doesn't make it a fact.
If you consider Barcelona to be a small region of peasants then yes.
Bosses and employees do not exist in a horizontal organization either. It's what makes the organization horizontal.
Once again, all you established was your opinion on it.
Because your point was already addressed in the video that you clearly didn't watch.
If I wanted to leave it out then I wouldn't provide a link in the first place.
And yes, it is a difference in ideology. I never said that it isn't.
BBQ_HaX0r ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:36:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You're mostly correct, there are plenty of instances of the right being hostile to speech and looking to suppress it as well. However, I'd still say they are more supportive of it than the left. One only has to look at colleges to see that. I believe many polls back this up as well. Although one does have to scoff at the right's reaction to some mediocre QB silently taking a knee during a football game.
[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 16:01:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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raoulduke415 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:42:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You are just further proving his point
STLReddit ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 17:31:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
His approval rating is at 40% and Democrats are expected to take the house over in the midterms. What the fuck are you talking about 'gaining popularity'?
*nvm, you post in the cult sub.
James01jr ยท -28 points ยท Posted at 14:08:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They happily use the tactics of who they are screaming I am. Nazi's used fear and intimidation as a means for forcing people to change their minds.
DEBATE_EVERY_NAZI ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 19:39:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
lol this is the biggest load of bullshit I've ever seen
Trump is losing support every day and he's not flipping anyone lol
STLReddit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:12:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This thread is being brigades hard by the cult
paleolithic ยท -31 points ยท Posted at 14:05:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, we're not normalizing this.
rawj5561 ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 16:26:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's hilarious how triggered reddit gets from T_D. Subreddits like /r/LateStageCapitalism can be just as bad but no one bats an eye.
[deleted] ยท 230 points ยท Posted at 13:24:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 70 points ยท Posted at 13:57:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 117 points ยท Posted at 13:32:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 44 points ยท Posted at 14:04:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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[deleted] ยท 41 points ยท Posted at 14:27:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 14:29:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 14:33:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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gaspara112 ยท 70 points ยท Posted at 13:30:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone else find it ironic that their group uses this "target with a Nazi section" to congregate to try and shutdown the financial sources of the very place they congregate despite claiming they have major trouble buying from companies that advertise there?
taws34 ยท -16 points ยท Posted at 14:00:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit is, essentially, a public space. Similarly, so is a college campus.
A lot of people would take issue with a Nazi recruitment booth at a college.
Just because I go to the college doesn't mean I need to be OK with Nazi's recruiting people.
gaspara112 ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 14:18:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Would you actively tell donors to that school to not give money to the school and tell their sports teams advertisers you won't buy their products because the school hasn't removed the nazis all the while continuing to enroll at the school?
taws34 ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:55:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Help me enroll somewhere else.
What other news aggregate / community form websites are out there?
gaspara112 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:44:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I mean there is Facebook but that is not really better.
The problem is that when you get such a large user base you are going to have many, many differing views and also gain many many trolls. There is really nothing that can be done about that.
trench_welfare ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:59:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Except that the T_D booth wouldnt be out in the open and you'd actually have to ask for it to see it.
taws34 ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 15:14:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
When T_D abused the algorithms to get posts to the top of r/all? When Reddit had to ultimately allow people to filter subreddits just to negate their continued algorithm abuse?
New users don't ask to see that stuff - they browse r/all, and get blasted with it as they walk to the student union building.
trench_welfare ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:28:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
When, as in doesn't happen anymore.
You want to browse r/all, don't expect everything to be nerfed, everything offends someone.
And new to Reddit? If you're new to Reddit in 2018, you've got so much meta inside joke bullshit to catch up on, you almost need T_D to make sense of the site as a whole.
somedude456 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:15:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think every college campus has that religious nut job that tells women they are going to hell for being whores. It's called freedom of speech, even if you're an idiot.
taws34 ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:42:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
A lot of times those nutjobs are escorted from campus and given trespass orders.
Flowers_for_Taco ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 14:15:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Help me understand this. It seems to me that if it's a public space, it's still a space created by a private company. I think the difference is a public university likely couldn't prohibit the nazi recruitment booth, but reddit could close down the subreddit.
I agree with the original comment. To me, it seems that a reddit user in the analogy would be shopping at the target that has a nazi section
halfdeadmoon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:55:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think anybody is suggesting they don't have the right to shut down any or all subreddits.
They're saying they shouldn't fundamentally change the nature of Reddit by being aggressive about transforming into too safe and friendly a place.
TheManWhoPanders ยท 68 points ยท Posted at 13:57:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Show one example of this that got anywhere close to the front page. Go ahead.
It's amazing how many people claim these things without proof. I'm not white and I've found them far more accepting than the liberal parts of reddit.
BBQ_HaX0r ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:45:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
These are the same people who called Mitt Romney a sexist for his 'binders full of women' nonsense. Oh and degraded him for having the audacity to go against Obama's "Russian Reset" and say Russia is our greatest geopolitical threat. Right after Obama scuttled the olish Defense program and said got hot-micc'd saying he'd have more room to work after the election with the Russian President.
Pirate2012 ยท -14 points ยท Posted at 14:05:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
umm, did you see all the shit TD posted from the Saturday protests. Gun nuts on TD talking about target practice, about what they would do to Emma Gonzelez ; etc etc
Where you on TD the weekend of Charlottesville where a Nazi killed an American citizen on US Soil?
TheManWhoPanders ยท 36 points ยท Posted at 14:09:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Go ahead, find examples. Shouting "they're violent Nazis!" without proof means nothing. It's the go-to tactic of the Left. Just shout inanity and hope your opponent can't defend it.
stonedasawhoreiniran ยท -14 points ยท Posted at 15:22:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What about stickying a nazi rally and encouraging their members to attend where nazis actually killed someone. That seems kinda nazi-ish, no?
TheManWhoPanders ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 15:27:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Nazis didn't kill anyone. The guy who drove the car wasn't a Nazi. Nor was it a Nazi rally -- it was a rally that a handful of white nationalists were at.
But go on and call everything you don't like "nazi". People ignore you when you speak with that much ignorance.
[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 15:41:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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stonedasawhoreiniran ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 15:32:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Lmao "a rally a handful of white nationalist attended". You realize the white nationalists planned the rally right? But go on, dismiss real world evidence of TDs association with neo-nazis. People ignore you when you can't acknowledge the facts in front of your face. Enjoy as the democrats continue to crush republicans throughout the midterms.
Edit- Here's an article confirming that the Charlottesville murderer was a trump supporter. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/13/us/james-alex-fields-charlottesville-driver-.html
TheManWhoPanders ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 15:42:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There were around a hundred white nationalists at an event that had over a thousand. Yes, actual white supremacists were there. Not everyone there was one. Use that tiny brain of yours.
No one denied he was. Earlier he was called a Nazi. Again, use that tiny brain of yours to understand that there's a difference.
LOL. I heard this just before the election too. There's going to be so much salt from your side in a few months.
stonedasawhoreiniran ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 15:47:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Was the rally organized by nazis? Did TD encourage their members to go to a nazi run rally? Then TD might be a little nazi. I know syllogistic thinking is probably far beyond your abilities, but give it a shot and try to work it through.
youngli0n ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:51:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Funny because once T_D found out that it was a white nationalist rally meant in to duping Donald supporters to go, people were posting things encouraging people not to go. Sounds kind of the opposite of what youโre saying. Do you actually go on the sub? Or do you just listen to what some guy told you that also doesnโt go on the sub lol.
stonedasawhoreiniran ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:04:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
From the sticky. "We aren't Nazis, we just support and uphold the same ideas as nazis." Kindly gfys.
LolTriedToReBlockMe ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:38:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So do you, for wanting to silence speech that you disagree with, for wanting to take away guns. If anything, almost everyone holds at least one idea that the Nazis had. That does not make them a Nazi.
paleolithic ยท -24 points ยท Posted at 14:03:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You are aware they ban anyone who posts anything even hinting at criticism of their Orange Rat King. Accepting, my ass.
TheManWhoPanders ยท 40 points ยท Posted at 14:10:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's a pro-Trump sub. You seem surprised that they are Trump supporters.
Go into a niche gaming sub and tell everyone the game sucks and see if you're treated any differently.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 15:03:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Simply say you like well done steak anywhere on Reddit. Those rare meat fuckers will find you.
TheMy5teryMan ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:23:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
well at least thats reasonable, well done steaks are a crime against humanity
Ebelglorg ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:33:15 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So then it's a safe space? As in a space for which only certain ideas are allowed and not allowed to be criticized or disagreed by the community. You can't just change the definition of things when you don't want to fit it.
TheManWhoPanders ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:12:45 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's a pro-Trump sub. It'd be like saying /r/gardening, /r/WWE, or /r/motorcycles are safe spaces.
Ebelglorg ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:15:28 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Not it's not because you can express disagreement on those subs. There's a difference between saying "Haha motorcycles suck you losers Haha" and "I don't particularly like motorcycles and I think they're unsafe because..." both would not be allowed on The_Donald. There is literally only one point of view allowed. Anything that even questions Trump or the general narrative of the sub is banned. That's a safe space. You can try to work around the definition all you want but The_Donald is indeed a safe space.
TheManWhoPanders ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:16:08 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Go into those subs and tell them that their niche sucks and that they're stupid for liking it. Tell me how well that goes.
Ebelglorg ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:48:50 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Did you even read my comment. It's not about telling them their niche is stupid any criticism of Trump at all is banned. You can go to those subreddits and disagree with the main topic. That's a safe space.
SirApatosaurus ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 14:28:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There's a difference between "this game sucks" and "I disagree this game is perfect, I have concern about X, personally I don't like it".
Saying that a photo isn't proof of a friendship, but if it is then do the photos of Trump with questionable people proves he friends with questionable people, is not "Trump sucks!!!!".
Anything that isn't pro Trump can get you banned, to the point where long time posters find themselves banned for something controversial despite being ardent supporters. A lot of people got nuked not too long ago when he said to scrap due process with guns for people of questionable mental health, and they disagreed with it.
Ebelglorg ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:33:48 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Love that you get mass downvoted with no replies despite your sound logic I guess a certain sub had made it here.
derek_j ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 14:18:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
I was banned from /r/communism101 and /r/BlueMidterm2018 for simple questions.
Not even disagreeing. Questions.
EDIT: lol I was just banned from this sub. For pointing out the ridiculousness of this type of post. How's that for a circlejerk.
evilfetus01 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:38:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I haven't been banned from /r/communism101 yet, but I did get banned from /r/BlueMidterm2018 for asking a basic question about DACA and why the Democrats dropped the issue.
edit: nevermind i'm banned
[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 15:59:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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evilfetus01 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:41:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What's wrong with promoting Britain First? If I'm not mistaken, they did the same for the Netherlands and France. Poland has been Poland first so they have just been supporting them.
[deleted] ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 16:11:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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BBQ_HaX0r ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:52:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Which is why hate speech laws are bullshit. They are completely subjective and often used to impose majority will on the minority.
[deleted] ยท 152 points ยท Posted at 13:38:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 14:16:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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ESPN_outsider ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:43:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Remember when reddit supported free speech regardless of the content? T_D isn't nearly as bad as people on here say it is, but it will most likely go the way of gore on /r/WTF and that fat people bullying sub.
The people on /r/the_donald won't be changing their opinions just because you ban them. They will find a new place. Then reddit's transition into Tumblr lite will be complete.
blkarcher77 ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 14:39:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, ok, so youre saying we should just lie?
ShiraCheshire ยท 109 points ยท Posted at 13:41:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not a fan of T_D either, but I feel like this comparison is way off. Reddit is a site with content created entirely by users, hosted by Reddit. It's less like a Target with a Nazi section and more like a plaza with a farmer's market, and book club meeting, and also some KKK members hanging out on a bench.
AlexisEllison ยท 105 points ยท Posted at 14:04:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
And a bunch of people huddled around a flickering old monitor watching other people die.
And a political rally. And another political rally that's pretending to be a general discussion of politics.
And people sitting on a bench near the food trucks, mocking anyone overweight or "funny-looking."
There's another group sitting there glaring at all the men. Not too far from them is a group glaring at all the women. Some of them have red pills, I think. There's another group glaring at both the women AND the men, calling them "chads" and "Stacys" and blaming them for all their problems. There's another group, too, that likes to go to some terrible places and then talk about what they saw there.
Milling around from one table to another are a whole bunch of people. Some of them are racist and bigoted, and are really terrible people. Some of them are pretty awesome. A lot of the former tend to spend more time at certain tables, while a lot of the latter make the market a decent place to visit. They form their own tables, and share funny stories and cute items. Sometimes they show one another their naughty bits, which is nice. Sometimes they're wholesome and sometimes they fight.
It's a weird farmer's market, but I guess there's both good and bad people here.
edit: I almost forgot to make a point. You'll find something offensive in any user-curated space. Some people are offensive; some people get offended. I'm not saying that it's wrong to target things that are legitimately offended, but I'm saying that opening this door is going to trigger a war to target the advertisers for anything that one finds offensive. And you can find plenty of ammo in many, many subreddits. Reddit's already not profitable as it is; I just wonder if it'll keep going until the site burns to the ground? I also wonder if that's such a bad thing.
I_Plunder_Booty ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:20:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like you've described all these small yet really loud groups huddled underneath a tree on the edge if the parking lot while everyone else is just buying fruits and vegetables.
HateIsStronger ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:01:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The real best of is in the comments. Nice work man. Well put.
frozen_yogurt_killer ยท 138 points ยท Posted at 13:54:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
T_D is nothing like Nazis or the KKK.
stonedasawhoreiniran ยท -42 points ยท Posted at 14:13:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Except for the part where they stickied a white supremacist rally and encouraged their subscribers to attend.
xmindallas ยท -34 points ยท Posted at 14:26:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
You're right. The Nazis and KKK are/were honest about their hate.
Edit: Nice brigading. Have fun with that.
Tattered ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 15:15:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Just keep lumping conservatives and the KKK/nazis together
People like you are actually the reason why /r/The_Donald is so prominent. You're driving conservatives over there and preventing them from leaving.
Beegrene ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:45:17 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"Liberals called me a racist! I better vote for a racist. That will prove them wrong!"
-t_d logic
xmindallas ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:37:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, actual conservatives can't stand Trump. It's people filled with hate who go there, and that's a good thing if that keeps them away from the rest of the internet.
[deleted] ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 15:23:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Russian bots are why TD is so prominent.
Tattered ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:50:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Let's assume that /r/The_Donald gets its prominence from Russian bots.
We know that the goal of the Russian botters was to further the divide in the United States political discourse. We know that they did this by promoting "strong" arguing points on both the Democratic side and the Republican side in order to sew discord and hyperpolarize the parties.
Now if /r/The_Donald gets its prominence from only bots should there not, therefore, be a democratic equivalent also promoted by bots? There isn't a democratic equivalent to /r/The_Donald. Therefore either the bots strongly influencing everyone equally (meaning that the Russian bots aren't why /r/The_Donald is so prominent) or they're not hitting as much as you think they are (meaning that the Russian bots aren't why /r/The_Donald is so prominent). Your argument is self-defeating.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 15:56:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
My argument is not self defeated by you listing dumb bullshit dude. Everyone already knows about all the fake news spread by Russian bots through TD. Or are you gonna pretend @TENGOP didn't exist?
Tattered ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:24:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Your statement doesn't refute any of my points. It is possible for Russian bots to have an effect on TD without them being the source of its prominence.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:30:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You argued the same old tired argument that "Trump supporters aren't racist, they just get called racist by leftists so much that they get pushed towards bastions of racism on the internet" which is complete fake news that you have no source for. It's a well verified fact that TD constantly pushes Russian bot sourced content.
Tattered ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:39:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Your statement doesn't refute any of my points. It is possible for Russian bots to have an effect on TD without them being the source of its prominence.
Please stay on topic. If you would like to debate another one of my comments about a separate topic please reply to that comment with your argument about that separate topic. Right now I believe we are debating your statement that "Russian bots are why TD is so prominent."
Pirate2012 ยท -43 points ยท Posted at 14:07:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The Nazis were mostly killed off.
The KKK now walks around with their robes and masks off and makes their new home on TD
[deleted] ยท 46 points ยท Posted at 14:15:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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BSRussell ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:57:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What do you mean if? There were people openly marching as Neo Nazis in a gathering that T_D promoted.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:11:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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BSRussell ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:15:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, the "Unite the Right" march, that was specifically about uniting the far right with the more moderate right to show a united front. The one that T_D promoted, and specifically had disclaimers about how you would absolutely be marching alongside white supremacists, but why it was worthwhile to go anyway.
But you're moving the goalpost, you're saying shit like "if there even ARE Nazis out there anymore" when you can literally find videos from a couple of months ago of people marching under Swastikas and doing Nazi chants. At a march that T_D promoted. So aside from dedicated, willful ignorance, by what basis are you skeptical that Nazis exist?
Pirate2012 ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 14:17:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously asking, other than his EOs; what is your Top Ten list of things Trump has done (actual passed Laws).
[deleted] ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 14:32:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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AskewPropane ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:08:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But what has he done? Because someone who is all bark and no bite means nothing, does it
stonedasawhoreiniran ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 14:52:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So now TD is feels over reals, got it.
Pirate2012 ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 14:51:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Curious as to your thoughts on the discovery that Trump likes being spanked by a woman with a rolled up magazine ?
Secondly, your views on Trump then telling that pornstar "Thank you, that was great, you look just like my daughter"
YimannoHaffavoa ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 16:57:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I for one welcome ad hominem attacks on politicians rather than debating their ideas. It's definitely the right direction to take our society, and I wish it was more common.
Kahlypso ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:55:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Who cares?
Why does it matter?
Beegrene ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:46:20 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Where here fighting back against the bureaucracy means breaking the fucking law.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:36:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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Pirate2012 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:57:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Did Trump sign or veto the horrible Budget Bill on Friday
[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 14:36:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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Pirate2012 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:46:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I asked what your personal favorite laws Trump got passed, not a website list
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 15:05:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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Natanael_L ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:50:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
At least half not attributable to Trump by any reasonable scientific standards, got it.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:12:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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Natanael_L ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:15:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, that's the problem. Most those things follows trends that changes slower than in one year, these trends often lags behind changes by multiple years. Especially markets like housing and employment.
jtljtljtljtl ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:17:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Hiring spiked after the tax cuts. I can directly attribute my current job (I was previously unemployed) to those tax cuts. The company created an additional position at the beginning of January because they had the money to do so.
Natanael_L ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:28:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Yeah, you're a very rare minority. That's not equally true across h the country. Most of that cut isn't going to workers.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42812453
https://www.ft.com/content/a2ea734e-f0b3-11e7-b220-857e26d1aca4
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/12/20/tax-cuts-economists-see-modest-impact-corporate-tax-cuts-boost-spendingtrickle-down-money-shower/967099001/
BSRussell ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:58:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Source needed. Your personal experience isn't data. I also wonder how you know exactly how your hiring company came to the decision to make a new position.
jtljtljtljtl ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:25:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Look at the employment rate.
BSRussell ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:30:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That tells me how many people have registered as unemployed lately, it doesn't tell me whether or not hiring spiked after the tax cut.
jtljtljtljtl ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:46:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You seriously don't think that there is a direct correlation between hiring and the unemployment rate?
BSRussell ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:48:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
No, I'm saying TODAY'S UNEMPLOYMENT RATE is not evidence that hiring spiked after the tax cut.
EDIT: Lol, I guess it's cute that you at least pretended to have to real backing to your point.
jtljtljtljtl ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:32:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
I'm on mobile so I can't copy the pdf links for some reason. But google "the employment situation 2017" and 2018, and look at the civilian noninstitutional population employment numbers from the bureau of labor statistics.
BSRussell ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:04:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah the major unemployment is total nonfarm payroll numbers, neither of which even closely resemble what you're citing. 227k in Jan 2018, 200k in Jan 2018, so it actually FELL.
jtljtljtljtl ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:19:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
UN-employment fell. You might want to work on your reading comprehension.
BSRussell ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:10:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What the fuck are you on about? Your numbers are all over the place. Otherwise, you're saying that unemployment INCREASED this year. And guess what, hiring and unemployment can fall at the same time, if you can wrap your brain around that.
You know what? Never mind. No fucking idea why I'm trying to talk numbers with a Trumpist.
jtljtljtljtl ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:14:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You're not very smart, are you?
BSRussell ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:51:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Coming from the guy talking about numbers "spiking" and completely failing to produce even the most routine evidence. I know, you're used to T_D where no one questions your narrative.
jtljtljtljtl ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:20:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
I urge you to go look at the numbers again. The total number of people employed rose significantly in both January and February of 2018. Compared to December of last year, before the tax cuts, there were 1.2 million more people employed in February. Those people were all hired. That's the largest increase in that 2 month span since 2012. If you don't call that a hiring spike I don't know what else you would possibly call it.
You also have to take into account the fact that the available labor pool was incredibly small because unemployment is at it's lowest rate since the year 2000. The last time that many people were hired over that span the unemployment rate was at 8.4%, over double what it was at the end of December 2017. It's way easier to hire when you're drawing from a larger pool.
BSRussell ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:30:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Total nonfarm payrolls, the official number for new jobs created, which would be the logical correlation with "companies hiring because they have more money:"
Jan 2018: 200k
Feb 2018: 313k
Jan 2017: 227K
Feb 2017: 235K
The total amounts to a slight/moderate increase in 2018 over 2017, a continuation of an almost decade long trend of employment growth and easily attributable to economic expansion. You don't compare Dec 2017 to Jan 2018, because no one uses non seasonally adjusted numbers.
But honestly, that's hardly the point. I'm not really contending that the tax bill is bad for jobs. One could argue that stimulus when unemployment was already shrinking is going to spur inflation and overheat the economy, but that's awfully speculative. I only really took interest in this conversation because "look at the employment rate" is a stupid argument for hiring spiking when employment has been growing every month for years. It's mathematical nonsense, a current value isn't an argument for a delta value.
jtljtljtljtl ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:51:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I was at work on my phone during my breaks so I didn't really have the time or the ability to dig into the unemployment numbers and write some long elaborate response. I was comparing the increases from Dec->Jan->Feb vs. the increases in previous years because of the seasonality factors.
You can't simply compare jobs created in January 2017 vs jobs created in 2018. You also have to look at the total number of people who are in the labor force, the labor force participation rate, the unemployment percentage and the employment percentage. Given two labor forces of the same size, the exact same increase in Employment-population rate is far more impressive at 4.1% unemployment (end of December 2018) than it is at 4.8% percent unemployment (end of December 2017). Same thing if you're looking at the number of new jobs created.
When you also consider the fact that there were more people hired during the first two months of 2018 than any Jan/Feb since 2012 when unemployment was at 8.4%... you might want to take a look at some of the external factors that might have had an impact on the labor market.
BSRussell ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:08:44 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But at that point you're looking at a much more holistic analysis than either of us are doing. The increase over the prior year was meagre. And if you throw it to "well there are lots of external factors" then you're pretty much saying "we can't find an answer, but I'm just going to assume the one that fits my political narrative."
jtljtljtljtl ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:15:33 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The specific factor I was referring to was the tax cuts.
There's no denying that there was an increase in hiring and an increase in overall employment compared to previous years... so aren't you doing exactly the same thing? Making assumptions about the cause of that increase? Neither of us can be 100% sure.
BSRussell ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:23:04 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'd agree, but you're the one making a claim to know something. That's why this conversation began with "source needed."
BSRussell ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:18:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Ahhhh, so nonsense talking points.
I love people throwing out GDP numbers for a quarter, as if that's a thing. GDP growth in 2017 was slower than 2015.
And, ya know, Trump made no substantial changes to our policy fighting ISIS. Please feel free to correct me. And unemployment was falling every quarter leading up to his presidency, it just kept on falling.
So much of this literally amounts to "a growing economy kept on growing, Trump's a GENIUS!"
You can give him the stock market because that's directly attributable to his tax cut, but since when is it the president's job to inflate the stock market?
AskewPropane ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:11:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Only one I can give you there that Trump caused was ISIS. Obamas micromanagement of the military made it ineffective. All others were definitely not effected by Trump, as they were easily projected to reach this point while Obama was in office
Pirate2012 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 20:25:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Trump for the first time in our nation pushed the Deficit over $20 Trillion.
Stock Market all time high: yes, when a president who promised to fix the corruption does the exact opposite, that means the market will go up. Trillion Dollar Tax Cut to big business , removing sane regulations put into place after the 2008 Market Crash, removing regulatory regulations also put in place to protect the American consumer ............. yup all those things will indeed protect Big Business (and consumer losing) - so yes, you get a Stock Market going up.
Go look at a 10year Dow or SPX chart, tape has been going up since March 2009 during Obama's 8yr term.
Last Week, Trump made vast noise about "Trade War with China" can be won; and the Dow lost almost 2,000 points in 1-2 weeks. Over the weekend, sane adults in the Federal Gov along with China came out saying they are trying to work together re Tariffs. That is why the Tape is up today, dispite Trump not because of him.
NK: umm, Trump just made NK's leader more important than he ever was by agreeing to meet with him before any concessions were put into place.
Deportations: umm, there's law on the books for decades fining big business for hiring illegals, however Trump's regs have reduced enforcement of business owners.
Trump's guys have fucked up National parks, our education system is being run by an Amway heiress whose brother runs Blackwater
Trump got rid of ISIS you say? really, so why are they all over the news in the European press (not the Fox TV you watch)
The rest of the First World is working on Solar and Wind energy, Trump has slashed research in those areas and is pushing Coal - fucking coal and more fracking
Racial tension in this country has not been this high since the 1960s; fueled by Trump and Fox TV.
Trump "There were some good Nazis there in Charlottesville"
1/4 of Trump's time has been on a damn golf course, 1/4 !
approx 30% of his days as POTUS has been spent NOT in the WH working; but on a Trump Property.
It costs us, the taxpayer $3m every weekend he goes golfing.
Trump doesn't even get to the Oval until 11am or sometimes after lunch; as he's watching all the Cable TV shows in the morning to be told what to think about current topics - Fox TV is running this country, not Trump
Pirate2012 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:52:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Curious as to your thoughts on the discovery that Trump likes being spanked by a woman with a rolled up magazine ?
Secondly, your views on Trump then telling that pornstar "Thank you, that was great, you look just like my daughter"
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 15:07:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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Alex15can ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:12:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Believes Stormy a porn star who made her living getting fucked but doesn't trust Clinton's rape accusers.. because?
Some people man.
Pirate2012 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:06:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well, the woman who sued him claiming that when she was 13 years old, and was one of the Epstein Lolitas - that Trump raped her a few times. Before she could testify in court (yes, she had a court date set) - some pond.scum from 4chan found out her address; and she received credible Death Threats. If I recall correctly, some on TD were involved in this. She did not testify and went into hiding.
There are currently two other women's lawsuits in the courts right now, in addition to Ms Daniels.
Cohen has been alleged to have been Trump's fixer to about 200 women that Trump had sex with while married. That is, Cohen was involved in paying off about 200 women before the 2016 election.
Remember Bill Cosby, once a few women came forward against Cosby, slowly more came forward; and then a great many came forward.
umm, why does Trump insist on NDAs with women he has has sex with?
stonedasawhoreiniran ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 14:53:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Feels over reals. You guys are fucking morons.
Bascome ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:22:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I will toss one out there.
He beat Hilary. I always remember to compare him to her, not to perfection. As much as I disagree with some of the things he does or says I am forever thankfull . . .
. . . he beat Hilary.
BSRussell ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:58:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm no Trump supporter, but doesn't really feel fair to say "well aside from the most direct way a president can promote his agenda, what has he done?"
frozen_yogurt_killer ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:53:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm Jewish, and I post on the T_D. I'm not a National Socialist or a member of the KKK, and my beliefs are 100% opposed to those ideologies. There are black, gay, lesbian, etc people who post on T_D. They're not Nazis or the KKK either.
How many times do you need to shown you're wrong for you to realize you're wrong?
iwantedtopay ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:39:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think most of the people who call t_d Nazis, racist, etc., know that they're wrong, but believe they're lying for "the cause."
sandbrah ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 13:47:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's better but not accurate either. The kkk is a dem legacy/disgrace and they own that.
Try....and also some people dedicated to America winning again out on a bench.
ms4 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:25:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
this is a water-tight narrative
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 16:27:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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ShiraCheshire ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:28:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
To drop the metaphors, I do think that subs that break Reddit rules (such as harassing other subs) should have some sort of punishment. But banning a sub should be a last resort (unless the very concept of it breaks Reddit rules), and subs that are just full of awful people shouldn't be punished if they can manage to respect site rules.
TheCoconutCookie ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 16:46:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"Everyone who I don't like is a Nazi" Sad to see the word Nazi entirely lose its meaning over the past few years.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:59:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs kinda annoying that the nazis and hitler are the eternal boogie men to our generation.
Didnโt they learn about pol pot, Stalin and the gulag, Stalin and the Ukraine famine, king leopald (sic), the Armenian genocide, the killing fields. Genghis khan.. etc
evilfetus01 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:42:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The same people calling everyone Nazis, are the ones who believe in the same ideology as Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot. . .
superalienhyphy ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:35:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
All the people listed above implemented gun control before mass murdering their people.
kreiger ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:56:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
TheCoconutCookie ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:36:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Don't play dumb. Wake me up when people on that sub-forum start proposing to build gas chambers.
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 15:42:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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evilfetus01 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:34:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You're welcome at T_D to pass the time.
kent2441 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:53:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Unless youโre black or Muslim, in which case youโll be physically removed.
evilfetus01 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:57:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What? There are black and Muslim, though not many Muslims... but there are. Just make a post and say youโre black and ask if youโre welcome...
CommanderCougs ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 21:39:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
T_D is the most grandiose example of "The Streisand Effect" on the internet.
I can also tell all of you this; banning speech, groups, ideas you dislike or disagree with does nothing but make you look like the bad guy, thus driving people who value free speech above ideological conformity to the other side. Eliminating dissenting opinions means that the platform becomes an echo chamber where only one point of view is allowed and the site becomes a de-facto propaganda device overnight by definition.
Look, I read T_D and occasionally post there. I'm not a Nazi, nor have I ever seen Nazis there. But, if they were there in the hundreds of thousands that you would be led to believe are there, FINE, let them be there. Do you know the reason that the KKK went from having millions of members to having thousands of members? People put the KKK on TV, in movies, gave them interviews, filmed their marches and showed their violence to the world. Once the general public saw what they were really about, they rejected them.
By banning T_D, all you are going to accomplish is martyring T_D. All the hysteria about T_D is going to increase interest in T_D and sub traffic to T_D and you are going to increase subscriptions to T_D. Guess how I found T_D? /r/EnoughTrumpSpam. Guess where I found /r/CringeAnarchy and /r/sjwhate. It wasn't through the search function, it was from folks like you all, screaming about how "evil" they were (they aren't btw, they're mostly shitposters).
I apologize for going on for so long, so I will finish with this. You all may think this is a great, virtuous and moral endevour, but stop and think what will happen if political and public opinion shifts, which it inevitably always does. If this sort of behavior becomes the norm, what happens when your ideas, values and speech are deemed to be "unacceptable" by someone in power on the other side?
[deleted] ยท 38 points ยท Posted at 13:45:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 130 points ยท Posted at 13:08:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท -29 points ยท Posted at 14:02:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 14:23:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท -14 points ยท Posted at 14:31:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:25:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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thatguyinatrenchcoat ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 14:35:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Can someone explain to me how t_d is full of Nazis? I see this everywhere, this supposed thing of Trump supporters being "LiTeRALlY hItLeR!", but I just can't see it. I just see traditional conservatism being shown there. It's not really about racial superiority, from the posts I've seen. Hell, I even personally know a lot of black people and Hispanics who support him. The connection just doesn't add up.
crimdelacrim ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:55:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah. I can explain it. โIf you disagree with me, youโre literally a Naziโ is what they are actually saying.
GracchiBros ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 14:28:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Bunch of bull. It's like having redneck Murica section. Which many do. Most just don't ban you from that section if you have different thoughts.
KIDWHOSBORED ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:22:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Lmao advertisers love the_donald, they'll buy fucking anything!
reddit4getit ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 14:33:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So the strategy is to lie about subs we dont like? Because a 'Nazi section' isnt what that sub is at all.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:46:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
yeah but a "saying 'you remind me of my daughter' before having unprotected sex with a porn star" section is too long
reddit4getit ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:46:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I dont even know what youre babbling about, go read your tabloids.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:04:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
you know exactly what i'm babbling about
reddit4getit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:23:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Not really, I dont read fake news.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:37:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
lmao you might as well be a flat earther, that's how willfully ignorant you are
[deleted] ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 14:36:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well fascism and Nazism are pretty much the same...but if you want to split straws I think we all know why. Ass.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:55:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Nice insight from copkiller . Under what category do you fall ? Anarchists ? Thugs?
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 15:03:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Just because I hate systematic racism and oppression by the ruling class, I have to be grouped in with a political faction? How about I'm just a rational person with autonomy and compassion instead of a willfully ignorant person that buys into the nationalism and blatant hypocrisy of America?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:14:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yet , you seem to believe no people with those qualities stand on the other side of the pond right? It's a black and white world alright.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:18:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Nope, there are always shades of grey but when people buy into the type of thinking that typically follows the right, it's usually a good indication of at least a basic ignorance of how things really work. Case in point, if you vote republican and are anything but a rich white male, you are voting against your own self interest, that's just a fact. And no, I don't believe democrats are any less corrupt in the political game. The reality is we live under corporate dictatorship that masquerades as a 2 party democracy. It's been that way for decades.
raoulduke415 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:53:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I like how he said you see politics in black and white and you respond by denying that fact and then proceeding to prove that you think exactly that way. At least admit it.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:59:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Sir, my statement has no opinion attached to it. Just the facts. Tell me how I'm wrong?
reddit4getit ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:39:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Explain how a sub is fascist. What kind of power are they holding that would allow them to affect you personally besides hurting your feelings?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:43:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Obviously not the sub itself (a website isnt a living thing) but the people who support it and post pro Trump/xenophobic bullshit. Just because TD's fascism comes wrapped in an American flag instead of a swastika, doesn't mean it's not fascism.
reddit4getit ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:33:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How is Donald Trump a fascist? What policies of his specifically support this claim? Im way past the Nazi comparisons, thats even more ludicrous.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:19:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well I could give you a whole list of reasons but I'm sure you will just try to pick them apart and use some excuse as to how he's "not really" that way. The most obvious reason he embraces white supremacy: just like his money, he inherited racist views from his father who systematically discriminated against non whites (aka poor) to keep them from renting his buildings. To him it's not JUST non whites, but anyone who is poor doesn't deserve any sort of voice or rights. But let's take a look at the direct corelations between Trump and other fascist regimes throughout history: 1. He truly belives he should be installed as dictator in chief for life. No more presidereal elections if he could help it. 2. Elimination of freedom of the press (now actual truth in journalism was hijacked a long time ago by the corporate/military industrial complex adgenda) but when all other news except Fox is "fake news" he means he wants only one source of information: the one that kisses his ass regardless of the facts. In any other country this would be called State run propaganda. 3. Ultra militarism/Police state. How many old clips have you seen of China, Russia, N. Korea etc, holding huge military parades in the middle of the city showing off their weapons of mass destruction? Yeah, he wants to do that here. It's a not so subtle message of what dissenters can expect.
Should I keep going?
reddit4getit ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:41:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yea, you didnt actually name any laws or policies that have been implemented, just a list of things Trump might have said that has offended you personally.
The white supremacy correlation is the biggest load of nonsense. Trumps agenda has been for AMERICANS, putting Americans before everyone else living in America. Americans come in all sizes, shapes, color, and creed. The true racism comes from the Left.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:02:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If you aren't aware of the fact that the ONLY people Trump cares about are himself and his corporate cronie friends, which his policies absolutely relate to then you are either genuinely deceived or wilfully ignorant. As to your first statememt, you obviously don't know your history. Hitler didn't start out rounding up the Jews, he convinced people like yourself that Germany needed to come first and not to pay attention to anyone or anything else. Seriously this isn't some partisan bullshit, this is capatalism at work and historical fact. Get a clue.
reddit4getit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:39:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What deluded world are you living in where Trump is going to magically sweet talk his generals and admirals to subvert all of our civil rights while at the same time giving out orders to active servicemen to start rounding up deplorables and having them shipped off to camps?
Are you serious? What makes you think a general wouldnt put a gun to his head the second he came up with orders like that? Get out of your basement.
You have cited no facts, no laws or policies that the Trump administration has passed, you are using your emotions to make arguments. No one cares that you dont like Trump, that doesnt make him a bad president. It just makes you bitter and triggered.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:09:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Did I say he was going to be able to implement every policy he wants? No. As for rounding up "deplorables" that's already hapening, it's called ICE. And before you start blabbing about illegals, there's been recent cases of deportations of legit citizens and the whole department reeks of corruption and racial profiling. Just because you can rationalize our further decent into fascism, doesn't mean it's ok. And I really didn't want to resort to links but since you keep hammering my lack of "proof" (not that you'll accept it until it's you who's being fucked with, a typical right wing viewpoint) here you go.
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/yes-trump-is-a-fascist-heres-the-checklist-1920ad4d8163
And if you go criticizing my source, don't even bother replying because it's obvious you're just another tool of the system with no motivation to question your beloved dictator.
reddit4getit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:27:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
ICE was in existence long before Trump. They are a federal agency used to enforce American immigration laws. Obama used it to deport 2 million+ illegals from the US.
If you dont like our immigration laws, you should write to the Congress, it is their job to write the laws. The president is bound by his duty to enforce the laws.
As for that propaganda you call a source, it has the same mis-characterizations and misquotes everyone else uses to bash Trump.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:09:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I know ICE isn't new. But their abuse of power has skyrocketed under Trump, just like the rise of white supremacists and literal Nazi's marching in the streets. If you think Trump is just following protocol you are a lost cause. Good day sir. Go sing the anthem and burn a cross. You know you want to.
reddit4getit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:10:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Nazi's arent marching in the streets because they dont exist anymore. That was a regime of soldiers under Hitler in Germany and Hitler had his ass handed to him along with all of the Third Reich. But continue living in fear in your basement.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:13:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So those in Charlottesville were just right wing snow flakes and not really racists?
iwantedtopay ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:42:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Ironic then, that it's the left pushing so hard to remove civil rights...
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:13:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
First of all I'm not a lefty, second of all what civil rights are we talking about here? This isn't a 2nd amendment debate...
reddit4getit ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:42:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Guy named cop killer thinks im the ass. Ok. You wouldnt have the balls to even look at a cop the wrong way.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:58:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Lol really? Because I remember organizing marches and fighting riot police in the streets for the sole purpose of letting them know how fucked they are. I'm not one to talk shit without backing it up.
Lil_Mafk ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 14:37:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How is T_D racist? Give me examples.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 16:07:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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Lil_Mafk ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 16:18:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So for Britain first: youโre saying disdain towards a religion is racist. Iโve never seen anything about stormfront, and Iโve visited the sub pretty much daily since the 2016 election. Can you provide a link?
bart2019 ยท -13 points ยท Posted at 15:23:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What planet did you just came from?
sandbrah ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 16:01:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"Are you kidding me?" - basically what you just said
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:29:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone should be using ublock origin anyways.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:59:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Trolls are out in force today.
rocqua ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:19:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Is this really the direction we want? Do we want to pressure reddit into more censorship?
The_donald, red pill and similar subs are horrible, and most people agree on that, but we shouldn't ban everything we don't like. Freedom matters, simply for it's own sake.
When we start holding advertisers responsible for what their ads are accidentally run on, we end up stifling anything that might be controversial. This isn't just happening on reddit, the same goes for youtube. The only way these sites can deal with this is aggressive demonetization or outright banning. These sites don't have the manpower to do this delicately, so they get automated systems. False negatives are bad, so the systems are trigger happy. In the end, anything that might be controversial has a decent chance of being hit by this. If we had done this 5 years ago, anything discussing gay rights would've been hit by it.
You probably know the 'first they came for ...' quote, same goes for the 'I disagree with what you are saying, but will defend your right to say it till the bitter end' quote. Freedom of expression matters. That is why it tends to be in a lot of constitutions. Maybe we should try to preserve it, rather than snuff it out wherever the law allows it to be snuffed out.
[deleted] ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 14:07:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 14:41:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 14:43:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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Clarkness_Monster ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:01:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
First of all, why doesnโt everyone use ad blockers here?
transverseprocess ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:28:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
T_d isn't that bad. Stop wringing your garments like a bunch of schmucks.
micmea1 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:56:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
We need to stop these political threads on bestof. I don't care about their legitimacy but they are being used to push ideology and that shouldn't be a thing on a sub meant to promote good content.
Madrid_Supporter ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 17:08:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I usually just avoid subreddits I donโt like but I guess throwing a huge bitch fit over nothing works too.
Razzal ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:04:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Yeah, I blocked T_D a long time ago and moved along. Really do not understand the need to for some people to control what other people are allowed to say or listen to.
Edit: I also think that people should realize railing against it constantly only strengthens how the T_D monkeys feel and their viewpoint that they are the oppressed.
[deleted] ยท 178 points ยท Posted at 12:55:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 111 points ยท Posted at 13:15:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท -35 points ยท Posted at 13:23:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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Layback ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 14:32:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Actual nazis are national socialists. White nationalists are something else. Come on now
[deleted] ยท -28 points ยท Posted at 13:29:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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wlee1987 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:15:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Can you link please? I just looked at their website and it didn't appear to have one.
[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 13:39:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 13:41:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 13:45:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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bigmeaniehead ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:35:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
LMFAO
You posted someone from stormfront complaining that he got banned from the donald.
And yet you use that as proof that T_D harbors nazis.
Are you literally insane?
TheManWhoPanders ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 14:04:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And the liberal parts of reddit attract violent communists, who were responsible for the greatest death toll in human history. What's your point? Should we ban all of reddit?
There's no actual white supremacy on the sub.
[deleted] ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 14:02:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:54:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:57:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:02:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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HumpingJack ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 14:35:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And? /r/politics attracts postmodern neo marxists.
AnOkaySamaritan ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:42:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If I were a betting man, I'd say you and I are probably pretty close in terms of political opinions, but I just don't see the merit in what you're saying, and in fact I think it hurts our cause.
I will say that I'm totally open to any additional sources (like links to actual highly upvoted comments and top-level posts on t_d). Please, give me more reason to dislike that community-- because I already do owing to the fact that I find the prevailing world view over there to be stupid, childish, and facile.
BUT--I regularly stop in to see what types of ridiculous ideas or mental gymnastics they've latched onto, and I just don't see the Nazi thing. The fact that Nazis and other terrible, low-quality people are attracted to a place, does not mean that that place is those people. The way I see it, Reddit's core functionality is to let popular opinions float to the top, and make unpopular opinions sink to the bottom. And in terms of things that are popular on t_d, Nazis just don't gain a lot of traction.
Please, for the love of God, prove me wrong, because I'd really love to not feel so annoyed everytime I see a new Godwin's law infraction related to that sub. I feel like a lot more people would become disillusioned with them and their ideas if we on the left didn't make it so easy for them to play the victim and feel persecuted.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:59:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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AnOkaySamaritan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:19:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't say that you played the victim. I said that they did, and I implied that it's unproductive to call them Nazis or insinuate that they are Nazis because it allows them to sell their ideas more easily when they can claim that they are being unfairly persecuted.
I'd agree that there is a higher percentage of Nazis amongst their membership than there is in the general public. But it doesn't follow that that's automatically a meaningful indicator that their views are derived from Nazi ideals. If it was found that a higher percentage of Nazis liked the artistic style of paintings by Monet, that wouldn't indicate in any meaningful way that Monet was a Nazi himself. There are myriad better ways to show that the views espoused on t_d are stupid.
Reddit_beard ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:56:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They use modified Kriegsmarine banners- they're basically green Nazi flags.
YouGotMuellered ยท -22 points ยท Posted at 13:44:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's full of opinions that are more or less in line with Nazi ideologies and practices. Therefore, Nazi.
NicholasFelix ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 13:53:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, you're correct. I've seen many conversations there about the need for Lebensraum and the ongoing problems with the Treaty of Versailles. Personally I found it all a bit boring but I suppose you have to be a nazi to really appreciate it.
TheManWhoPanders ยท 33 points ยท Posted at 14:06:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yep, I recall them constantly talking about confiscating guns like Hitler did in 1938. Oh wait, they hate that.
Rather, they're always going on about how industries need to be socialized, just as Hitler envisioned. Wait, they're against that too.
Well, at least they hate the Jews! No wait, Trump and his followers are rabidly pro-Israel.
Huh...it's almost like they're nothing like Nazis.
kn05is ยท -69 points ยท Posted at 13:07:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
White supremacy/ Nazi. Same shit, same foul stink.
TheManWhoPanders ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 14:03:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm brown and I'm more accepted there than the liberal parts of reddit. I don't think you have proof of any white supremacy.
kn05is ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 15:16:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Ajit, is that you?
Mikehideous ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 13:17:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Should we be banning subs that encourage black and brown power too? Or female supremacy like twox? I mean since we are trying to all be egalitarian.....
SynthD ยท -32 points ยท Posted at 13:32:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If you can show your working for how white power is egalitarian weโll hear you out. But itโs not so you canโt and we wonโt.
Kerish_Lotan ยท 36 points ยท Posted at 13:55:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If you can show how TD is promoting white power we'll hear you out. But it's not so you can't and we won't.
SynthD ยท -22 points ยท Posted at 13:57:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs been proven many times. Pick your favourite from google.
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 14:56:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Ah, the ol "It's easy to find but I can't find it" ruse. Read a book, use a Google. Same stupid shit.
SynthD ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:17:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
True but with a t d thread hijack attempt itโs not like proof will actually work.
Miserable_Fuck ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:22:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I know this will sound hard, but I'd like you to take a step back for a moment and observe yourself. You're now complaining that this thread has been "hijacked". That means you think all those downvotes are undeserved, and that your opinion is the correct opinion, and that people are disagreeing with you out of hate or a desire to troll.
To your mind, your views are obviously right. You mean well, and you just want to help people, and you think that everyone who is good and well-meaning like yourself must absolutely share your same views. It's obvious right? Why wouldn't they? I mean, they'd have to be trolls or genuinely evil people to even begin to disagree with your desire to make the world a better place...right?
I just want you to take a step back and ask yourself "what if". What if you're wrong? Yeah yeah trump supporters are evil nazis etc, but what if they aren't? What if they don't want a racial purge? What if they aren't just saying shit to make the left angry? What if they're real people with real concerns?
SynthD ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 19:47:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Good copypasta. Can I use it on t d commenters?
I did consider that and then I saw mountains of evidence otherwise. Do you want to post on t d about how anti nazi t d and Trump and his supporters and voters are? Let me know when you do so we can watch the votes.
You just happened to have picked poorly with me. Iโve posted a few times to t d, ask the Donald and debate the alt right. I know from many of the people themselves what they think.
Miserable_Fuck ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:05:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Cool. I've also started hanging out in t_d recently because of curiosity and I've found the opposite to be true.
SynthD ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:12:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Cool. Let me know when you post that test.
Miserable_Fuck ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:48:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What test? Go look for yourself.
Reddit is foaming at the mouth trying to ban a subreddit with +500K users because it's supposedly "a breeding ground for hate/misogyny/racism/nazis/etc". Admins can't make an announcement about a new reddit feature without the comments getting flooded with "sup bro when u gonna ban td?". The outcry is so loud you would think t_d was brimming with hateful shit. Until you take a look for yourself and see that yeah it's a circle jerk for trump supporters but there's nowhere near "mountains of evidence" of hate speech that people like to claim. It's just that people think having a MAGA bumper sticker means you're a white supremacist so yeah if that's your threshold then of course you're gonna see nazis everywhere.
Go ahead, go to their frontpage right now and show me what this "mountain of evidence" looks like. Show me the "mountains" of racist memes. Show me the "mountains" of pro-nazi comments.
SynthD ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:50:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Show me that they'll upvote a broadly anti nazi post. You use the sub all the time and have seen to your personal satisfaction they aren't bad people so I have nothing for you.
Miserable_Fuck ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:19:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So the lack of an anti-nazi post on the front page means they are pro-nazi? Do you know how many subreddits fit that criteria? Burden of proof is a simple. If you claim they are pro-nazi, prove it.
Bottom line is you won't prove it because you can't, because it's a lie. You've been lied to. I was lied to too. I was lead to believe that this was a good-guys-vs-nazis thing, until I took a look and saw it wasn't that simple, and that the "good guys" were only making it look simple because they wanted an easy excuse to ban dissent. It's much easier to rally people behind "LET'S BAN RACISTS!" than "LET'S BAN PEOPLE WHO WANT TO ENFORCE IMMIGRATION LAWS AND BORDER CONTROL!"
Kerish_Lotan ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 14:05:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Its been thoroughly disproven many times. Pick your favorite from Google. I'd also wager TD is one of the most inclusive, tolerate, kind, warm subs on all of reddit. Far more tolerate and respectful than any anti-Trump circlejerk echochamber sub, that is absolutely true. No question.
SynthD ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 14:42:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That is an interesting opinion Kerish Lotan. Emphasis added.
[deleted] ยท -13 points ยท Posted at 15:39:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Kerish_Lotan ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 16:05:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
American should come first, for all Americans. Britain should come first, for all Britains. Why do you have such a problem with this? Germany should be German. France should be French. It would appear to me the people trying to dilute these cultures are the true nazi/fascists, which means you're the actual fascist, not TD.
cpet72 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:45:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The fact that you think America First is a bad thing is very telling and comical.
vodoun ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:06:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Haha that's cute, you're talking like you're part of some group that makes decisions or impacts the real world
SynthD ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:39:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I replied to someone saying we ban subs. And we are all trying to be egalitarian.
vodoun ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:47:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, you replied to someone asking if "we" (as in all Redditors) should look towards banning all subs
You then said "if you can show "us"..." which implies that you're part of another group of people
He was being egalitarian, you were being elitist
Who's this "we" that you're talking about? And who are you going to "hear out"?
Odilious128 ยท -28 points ยท Posted at 13:39:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Are black, brown, or female human beings historically in positions of power that they have traditionally used to hold down potential competition from other genders or colors in most western societies? Does egalitarian mean that instead of trying to raise ourselves up we need to suppress and harm others? I find it either very disingenuous or just absolutely idiotic when people try to make this argument to defend white supremacy. There's a difference between supremacy and equality....
But aside from that, anyone that calls for violence against other humans should have no quarter here. Particularly those that do so repeatedly and for fairy tail reasons like 'race' or religion.
vodoun ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 14:08:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, the guy clearly was taking about black supremacist groups. What's the difference?
Odilious128 ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 14:16:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Do you see no difference between those that call for their communities to fight for equal protections under the law and those that call for taking away equal protections from other communities?
Maybe that's part of the problem.
vodoun ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 14:18:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Sure, which ones are fighting to take away equal rights?
Odilious128 ยท -16 points ยท Posted at 14:21:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Ah. As I suspected, the brigade is out. Wilful ignorance for 500 Alex!
Good luck.
vodoun ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 14:24:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
LOL!
It's an easy 3 step plan to get out of any discussion that involves backing up your statements with facts ๐๐ป
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 14:58:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You're the one that thinks brown people can only be good and not extremist.
BlacksmithSasquatch ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:11:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Some places they are, yeah.
Don't be racist.
CepheidVox ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:52:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
....twox isn't about female-supremecy. Where are you hearing this?
Feral_PotatO ยท -33 points ยท Posted at 13:07:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They're not directly Nazi's, correct. They're more hateful, dumber (fortunately) and their safe space (T_D)needs to go. So long SNOWFLAKES!
Reddit_beard ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 17:55:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Its a white nationalist group. Can yiu honestly tell me the views expressed there on race dont raise your eyebrows? It takes 5 seconds to find people earnestly discussing why immigration is bad because theyre afraid thst whites will be a racial minoroty in the US. There are tons of racists and neo-nazis there. They advertised the neo-nazi parade in Charlottesville, and then spread disinformation and apologism after it!
randomlurker2123 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 16:51:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's a safe haven for them, that's for fucking damn sure. Fuck Nazi's to death
RuprectGern ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:40:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Isn't this a little selective? Why not tell them about other material that the general public might find objectionable, such as the NSFW content? Using the target analogy, they don't have a porn section either and many customers might find aisle 22 full of cocks a problem on Sunday shopping with the kids. Shouldn't these advertisers be aware of anything objectionable or just the stuff you don't like?
superalienhyphy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:18:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No. Degeneracy is fine but supporting the President is unacceptable.
souljabri557 ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 14:40:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's full of opinions that don't go with the current narrative flow, therefore = nazi. A lot of people can't handle the idea that others have opinions they don't share; the easiest way of dealing with this is simply silencing those opinions.
raoulduke415 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:33:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I donโt get why people call it a racist sub... I never see anything racist over there -at least anything that gets voted to the top. They are nationalist, but the beautiful thing about this country is that it is made up of multiple races from all over the world, so the racist thing sort of goes out the window. Just because you want tighter border control or national security, doesnโt mean you hate brown people.
burgerkingowner ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 14:15:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
More propaganda. In reality most of that subreddit is full of uninformed voters just like the rest of this website. 99% of you are borderline brain-dead.
BBQ_HaX0r ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:51:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's really weird that this post is so heavily upvoted yet the majority of the upvoted comments in here are critical of OP.
axelG97 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:05:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How's the weather up on that high horse of yours
AskewPropane ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:32:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone else is an uninformed peasant. Not me, I am an enlightened one
Boon-Lord ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:50:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Now this is a opinion I can get behind.
Melos-SolRo ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:13:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I disagree with this, even though I do not like t_d. Since reddit is not directly curating the contents of the site as a store would a department, I would say it is more akin to a flea market, allowing a vendor selling openly racist / discriminatory goods to operate in their facility.
superalienhyphy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:27:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
r/The_Donald
Nothing racist as far as the eye can see.
GamingOpportunity ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:22:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
even though they are not racist nor discriminatory but okay
crimdelacrim ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:57:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Can you tell me some racist things on t_d right now?
TheREexpert44 ยท 60 points ยท Posted at 12:57:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Does he also go after latestagecapitalism for their shit?
Beard_of_Valor ยท -14 points ยท Posted at 13:06:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
I peruse that sub from time to time, but I don't subscribe or understand the gripe. I assume there is a lot left unsaid here. What is the conceit here? What hateful things do LSC advocate?
Serious question, not trying to put you in a box, if it's not a direct hate for hate comparison feel free to step outside of the box. I just wanted to illustrate the analogy I tried to draw so you would understand my thought process.
Edit: typo
outputAdmiralAkbar1 ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 13:10:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They call for violence against political enemies and are an extreme political echo chamber. They tend to end up on /r/shitpoliticssays a lot for a reason.
Beard_of_Valor ยท -17 points ยท Posted at 13:16:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
When you say call for violence against political enemies, would it be something like "lol late stage calitalism, Rex Tillerson is our new SoS, I hope someone kills everyone in the presidential succession down to the Secretary of Veterans Affairs"? Like encouraging real grave harm?
The echo chamber I get. I usually visit when I'm feeling like the System fucked me on a particular day. Signing away my right to sue my employer, etc. But it's pretty whiny so small doses.
AdmiralAkbar1 ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 13:21:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Not explicitly calling for violence, but pretty damn close. Enough that they would be calling for T_D to get banned if they made similar calls.
Beard_of_Valor ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:30:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Jfc that's pretty bad, yep. I never go there because of a news event, and it seems like they're at their worst on a news day. That might be why I thought it was out of character. And that was the mods. At least ban the mods.
I go there when I'm nursing a personal wound from my own life and want to remind myself that what I'm feeling isn't unique. Get outside my own head.
SynthD ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 13:34:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So they havenโt actually crossed the line?
We donโt need to pick something so minor from t_d.
AdmiralAkbar1 ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 13:37:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The difference is between the two is that some users at T_D cross the line, but the mods pull them back enough that the sub stays around. People at LSC are close to the line, and the mods egg them on to get as close as possible.
SynthD ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:00:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They burn through their mods because the admins demod anyone who permits Reddit rule breaking content. So no, the users post and the mods keep not just objectionable but rule breaking and often law breaking content.
Beegrene ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:41:46 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's full of tankies. Tankies suck almost as much as nazis.
Zestyclose_Session ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 14:10:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
/r/LateStageCapitalism is definitely gonna be up on the chopping block once something is done with /r/The_Donald. Really the goal of /r/stopadvertising is to get anything that resembles 4chan's /pol/ or facebook off of this site. As for now I think most people would be happy if T_D was gone or at least quarantined.
evilfetus01 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:46:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"most people".
Most people don't give a fuck about T_D.
Zestyclose_Session ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 17:47:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
and most people don't give a shit about 4chan either, until it affects them personally.
oiyacunts ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:47:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Tell us how T_D affected you personally. Show us on the doll.
DreadOfGrave ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:18:39 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Muh feelings were hurt when I learned that there are people with different views than me. ban wrong-think, please.
randomlurker2123 ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 16:50:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Hmm, I don't remember latestagecapitalism promoting Nazi's, or having several of their members become murders from the rhetoric on there...so NO
crimdelacrim ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:53:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I donโt remember t_d explicitly promoting Nazis either...
BBQ_HaX0r ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:49:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I mean the entire philosophy behind socialism, not the Bernie Sanders kind that the right labels everything, but the real true actual socialism is forcefully confiscating all property. You either let them steal your shit or they kill/jail/gulag you and take it. If we're okay with free speech then I don't mind those people espousing their beliefs, but advocating for the violent theft of everyone's property seems like the first place that ought to be culled if we're getting rid of offensive rhetoric.
Monev91 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:59:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
For what it's worth I was banned from the Donald for a dissenting opinion, however they are not nazis lol. If anything theyre basically a cringe factory at this point.
Tuhrents_ ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:13:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Do you guys believe r/LateStageCapitalism is a hate/racist subreddit? Honest question, Iโm curious
alexmikli ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:02:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well except that they're not nazis, they're just assholes, and reddit isn't a store, it's a forum.
thelandofdreams ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 15:20:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Do you guys understand what happens when the average redditor reads shit like this, then goes over to TD to investigate for themselves, and sees a bunch of funny frog memes?
They stop believing your liberal shit, like, forever.
I mean, how are you going to indoctrinate the public with your big government, socialist nanny-state ideas if you lose credibility?
Is it really worth that?
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:51:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"They stop believing your liberal shit, like, forever."
Sorting by controversial to find the non-sponsored comments has revealed this over the last few months. No one is buying it anymore.
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 15:21:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, calling the people you don't agree with "Nazis" is going to help.
praisekek969 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 15:25:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Wow I have looked at a lot of T_D posts and not even one fits the description you guys are giving. Itโs a conservative political sub. Republican values are not evil. Try making a evil post I guarantee youโre going to get banned immediately. T_D may say things you donโt like but at least they arenโt completely full of shit like you.
axelG97 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:08:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Dude with such a username don't try to be someone who doesn't post there regularly. It's unbecoming to lie so blatantly.
praisekek969 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:33:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Even this username got banned instantly. (Misunderstood comment) all I am saying is they ban you there is even a sub r/bannedfromthedonald.
Symplystyc ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 15:45:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The delusion is strong in this one.
praisekek969 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:23:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If it was as you say (hatesub) it would have been banned like incels. You donโt believe me? Try it post something like what you are describing. Shit donโt fly bro itโs still Reddit not 4chan.
Symplystyc ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 17:47:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Oh that's rich, must be good guys because the mods allow it. Ffs
badlydrawnjohn35 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:51:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone I don't like is a Nazi and everyone I disagree with and literally Hitler. Babby's guide to the internet.
kingzilch ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:56:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Weird how you only get this response from people who act like fascists.
The_Basic_Swede ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:04:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is such a moronic post.
JurijFedorov ยท 61 points ยท Posted at 13:11:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If the sub at least wanted to remove violence from both extremes I would think it's fine. But this is clearly an anti-right sub. Not a sub to remove negativity from Reddit overall.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:21:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
JurijFedorov ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:35:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
It is a stretch. Because many of Trump's best friends are Jews. His daughter is married to a Jew. Nazis hate Trump. They see him as a traitor.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:50:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
JurijFedorov ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:52:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Okay, we agree then. I just thought you were one of "them".
SageBait ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 13:39:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
thanks for being the most rational comment I've read in political threads. not really familiar with what goes on in t_d but it's sad that there's so much violent talk going on, as if that's the only course of action available between the left and the right
xSaviorself ยท -59 points ยท Posted at 13:19:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"but both sides are the same."
They're not. Accept it. Acknowledge the difference in hate between the far left and far right. Acknowledge that while the extremists on the left push to further their own rights, extremists on the right push to take away rights from others.
Is it? This sub is pretty anti-hate about anything, it just so happens that far right nationalism breeds much more hate and there is much more to screenshot. I think you're making assumptions to protect your view of Reddit, this is just another reason why T_D must go.
JurijFedorov ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 13:42:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't say both sides were the same.
Yes, so what? That's not my point. My point is that not 100% of the appeal to violence comes from the right leaning subs. But somehow all the posts on their frontpage are about right leaning subs. That would not be the case unless they ignore socialist subs appealing to violence. In your mind it happens less often on the extreme left leaning subs. But it still happens all the time on Reddit.
I think I don't understand what you are thinking here. My views? I am banned from T_D. I don't like the sub. I never visit it.
Turbo_MechE ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 13:48:47 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Never once did he indicate both sides are the same. The left might have a more humanitarian cause but there have been very violent rallies and protests by the left. It is not just a problem with the right. What he was saying is protest both sides and any subreddit that advocates violence
hyperion_x91 ยท 55 points ยท Posted at 13:23:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The left is currently on a crusade to take away the rights of citizens. Are you just willfully ignorant? Or maliciously deceptive? I'd wager the latter.
Iorith ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:18:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is only true if you think gun ownership is not only a right, but an unlimited right.
hyperion_x91 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:44:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It pretty much is. The only thing holding most people back is money.
onetruemod ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:56:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Hi Vlad, how's the Ukraine doing this time of year?
hyperion_x91 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:25:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, because there's nothing Russia would want more than an armed citizenry just look at their own country.
/s you imbecile
Irishwolf93 ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 13:31:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I can't trust anyone who belittles the argument that both sides are the same. The right has some views that are unpopular on reddit but the left is not more trustworthy. Lesser of two evils is still choosing an evil. Yet you get crucified on reddit if you point that out.
12345password ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 13:43:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Because itโs a lazy point of view born of ignorance and a desire to feel superior.
Moogatoo ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 13:53:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Not really. to compromise your morals for a lesser of two evils is wrong. People belittling your morals because "this side did this" is even worse. Welcome to Reddit.
12345password ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:04:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So what do you do then?
Moogatoo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:10:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's up to you. If you feel someone does not line up with your morals don't vote for them. And don't let people bully you into picking one, it's your decision really. If you want to do lesser of two evils cause you feel you have no choice that's fine, just not for me. But when people try to bully or push you into that it's just plain wrong.
12345password ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:17:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I guess thatโs where we disagree. Refusing to choose is still a type of choice, especially in binary situations like elections.
Moogatoo ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:18:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There are third party choices, but I also agree not voting is a choice. There's a big difference between choosing not to vote cause you don't like either candidate and never voting at all.
wlee1987 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:12:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The same way your comment is condescending and makes you feel superior.
12345password ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:12:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, yea, I do think itโs better to a pick side. Especially when weโre talking about legislation. Shit is legal or itโs not. Laws get passed or they donโt. Thereโs not really a middle ground on any given policy. So see who agrees with you more often than not and vote for them. Or I guess turn up your nose and come post about how youโre better than it all.
Henrywinklered ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:20:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They are so twisted it's not even funny. Sad!
SpecialPotion ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:23:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Calling for a more strict process to attain a gun is a crusade now? Don't act like a baby. It's called a protest. If a mentally unstable teenager can get his hands on rifle legally through the process right now, there IS a problem, and if you can't confront that, that's on you. The Parkland shooter went through all the correct legal backchannels, and now his classmates are dead. Up until he brought his rifle to school to kill his peers, he had done absolutely nothing illegal. Those legal backchannels need some work. Nobody is calling for your guns to be taken away, and the government would never be able to do that, because it would lead to a constitutional crisis (and because it's as impossible as deporting every illegal immigrant in the US - very impossible)
hyperion_x91 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:35:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The current process wasn't enforced. The laws weren't the problem here, it was that the laws that should have prevented it weren't enforced.
SpecialPotion ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:44:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Okay, does that not need some fixing? That's what I'm saying. People are tired of nothing being done. This happens multiple times every single year.
hyperion_x91 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:00:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Holding those responsible is a great idea, but no one is doing it. The FBI and police failed here and for some reason the solution to that is more gun laws that won't fix the lack of enforcement that caused this in the first place.
xSaviorself ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:23:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Are you sure? I don't support using legislation to limit free speech, please provide evidence of 'leftist crusaders' pushing legislation to remove rights from citizens. Provide me with a source please, because when I search for legislation to limit free speech, all I can see are conservative groups.
hyperion_x91 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:33:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The 2nd amendment was what I was referring to.
xSaviorself ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:49:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah that's a load of bullshit. You don't need an assault weapon to defend yourself. The 2A currently fails to protect U.S. citizens from being violently murdered. My country has a proportional amount of guns for its population compared to the U.S. and we don't have your gun violence problem. Whether or not a complete ban is necessary will be decided by how the right proposes alternative solutions to fix this problem: something like more comprehensive background checks, waiting periods, mental health checks, restrictions on individual trading and sales without oversight. There is simply not enough in place to prevent people who should not be getting guns from getting guns.
The U.S. doesn't have to be Australia when it comes to how it deals with gun violence, it can find some alternative solution. But it has to do something. It cannot allow this to continue or it will result in a total gun ban eventually.
hyperion_x91 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:56:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There are people saved everyday by them.
WeaselWeaz ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 13:33:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Do you mean the students who protested the gun laws and culture that keep killing their peers? They were not representing the left, Democrats, or liberalism as a whole, they were representing students to don't want to be shot.
hyperion_x91 ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 13:43:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
When the left funds their protest and platforms, they absolutely become representatives of the left.
WeaselWeaz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:06:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You say "representatives of the left" like checking a box for gun control views automatically checks a box for views on abortion, gay marriage, taxes, and every other issue. It isn't that simple.
[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:37:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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hyperion_x91 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:39:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Wouldn't surprise me, he's got his hands in quite a lot.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:50:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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lordtyp0 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:19:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So.. How did they manage national movements? It's really difficult to get things going in a state let alone the logistics of a Washington March.
SageBait ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 13:41:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
well the reality is that by protesting gun laws they have the same political argument as the left. it's asinine to seperate the student protests from bipartism because it's one of the root causes of the problem anyway
WeaselWeaz ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:02:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
One issue does not make someone "left" or "right". There are liberals and democrats who are pro-life and republicans and conservatives who are pro-choice.
SageBait ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 18:29:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
cool I agree but that's totally not what I said
SynthD ยท -14 points ยท Posted at 13:31:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If you think thatโs the same youโre part of the problem. No one ever got hurt because someone discussed taking away their rights. People have been hurt by the incitement to violence and general depraved indifference to non-white lives found on the far/alt right subs.
hyperion_x91 ยท 42 points ยท Posted at 13:41:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You act as though the left is just trying to discuss it and take no actions. You'd be hard pressed to actually find any calls to violence or anything of the sort on t_d. I'm sure there's been random posts on there since anyone can make a comment/post, but that can be found in almost any sub, and is actively upvoted/encouraged often by those on /politics or /latestagecapitalism
Moogatoo ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 13:55:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Youre downvoted but you are 100% correct. It won't take you long in those subs to find people talking about beating up Republicans or how they all should be killed. It's not quite as bad as TD but to pretend it's a right wing thing is silly.
DreadOfGrave ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:42:06 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
they call it " bash the fash ". it's honestly really funny if you think about it.
they're willing to violently assault people who have different political opinions than them, and they think that they are the righteous, anti-fascists. Haha. It's like they've lost the ability to self reflect.
I've seen these people call fucking Ben Shapiro a nazi. Ben Shapiro. A Jew. They are delusional.
soxpride ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:29:37 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I've never heard that? I always hear some crazy violent shit lefties are doing, but its always coming from conservative mouths. And it's just hear say. Hard to agree with something that can be made up on the fly just to influence others.
DreadOfGrave ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:44:49 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
https://np.reddit.com/r/PoliticalHumor/comments/7q8est/i_laughed_at_this_pretty_hard/dsnes58/
and that sub is supposed to be " neutral ". When a mainstream jew conservative is considered a nazi there, yeah, shit's all fucked.
Btw, the comment was at +21 before it was linked on shitpoliticssays.
soxpride ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:23:59 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I don't agree with that facist and nazi tagging. Don't think the majority of the left that says it, but it gives the right something to latch on to and exploit. That's why false flags are so effective. If you see a peaceful protest you dont agree with, get a small group to infiltrate and start tearing shit up in disguise of the protesters. Conservative media will exploit the fuck out of it.
vizzyq ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:50:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I know that's the perception, but as the person you responded to mentioned, check the comments on /r/latestagecapitalism. Lots of calls for violent revolt.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:22:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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hyperion_x91 ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 14:37:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I dont agree with the cloud act either. T_D is a sub supporting donald trump, I mean it's fairly obvious just by the name. They have their own subreddit guidelines you have to abide by just like every other sub.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:53:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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hyperion_x91 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:02:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yup, they got mad at the lead actor after his comments on illegal immigration. Does that make it hate speech? They basically talk shit about everyone in Hollywood once they make public political statements.
[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 16:38:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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hyperion_x91 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 16:41:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Except hate speech isn't just anything you deem mean or a different perspective.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:45:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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saitac ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:53:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Not supportive of the content of the t_d... just commenting to clarify that the US has absolutely no federal hate speech laws. Truly a staple of this country. Some states have unique hate speech laws (see Beauharnais v. Illinois for example) but that's rare.
Most of the moral positions you and I hold were once thought hateful. We should be EXTREMELY cautious about limiting a person's capacity to communicate non-violently. We can't clarify our thoughts and can't improve upon our maligned views without testing them against other people.
Edit: "can't " is probably too strong. We may be unaware that our views are maligned or may not know how to resolve them unless we can communicate freely.
hyperion_x91 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:46:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You're right. So what posts there are hate speech?
YouGotMuellered ยท -28 points ยท Posted at 13:40:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, give me a fucking break dude.
When the second amendment was written, the most powerful firearms could fire 3 rounds per minute.
The founding fathers specifically wrote the constitution so it could be adapted to changing times. I promise you when they wrote the second amendment, they were not imagining a world in which a disaffected, angry teenager could wield more firepower than an entire military unit did at the time and use it to slaughter dozens of innocent civilians just going about their daily lives.
Further, the right to bear arms has never been the right to bear any and all types of arms. You don't have the right to own a rocket launcher, for example.
Nobody is trying to take any rights away. They're asking for reasonable and responsible changes to the way we interpret and implement the second amendment so we can live safer, healthier lives.
maLiCioUslY DEcEptive, tho. Sure.
hyperion_x91 ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 13:53:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
The second amendment absolutely at its original intent was meant as a means to have access to any and all weaponry. We have whittled that away slowly over time, but the original intention to prevent tyranny has never changed.
Reasonable and responsible changes have already been made. The laws already existed to prevent this person from possessing any of these firearms. The laws were just not enforced, period. If the laws we have in place were enforced this would have never happened, at least not with guns. Adding new laws will change nothing if they are still not enforced.
IMPERIALITY ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:01:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
2A allows citizens to own CANNONS
[deleted] ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 14:26:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
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SpecialPotion ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:56:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"Firearms License
No license is required to purchase or own our cannons. They are classified by the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) as saluting & signaling devices and not as a firearm or weapon."
lordtyp0 ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 14:21:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Don't forget the first amendment. People pushing for prison time for saying mean things like the left implemented in Europe.
I don't think there is some tin hat push to remove rights but, both left and right forget that a right doesn't stop just because they don't like it.
Hence law after law being shot down as unconstitutional yet they keep trying to pass.
Course, the recent FOSTA abomination was an attach by the GOP.
Henrywinklered ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 16:23:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The left wants it to be illegal to call someone by the wrong gender pronoun. What is this country fucking coming to? Our grandparents would be absolutely ashamed.
r_lovelace ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:29:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Our grandparents would be way more ashamed by the fact that we are allowing literal nazis to show back up. What a great way to remember all of their fallen brethern by allowing a resurgence of the same evil they gave their lives to stop.
DesignGhost ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 17:51:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
By the lefts definition of Nazis theses days our grandparents would have been considered Nazis for their views anyways.
r_lovelace ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 18:02:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How do you define a Nazi? I've seen enough protests of white supremacists holding literal Nazi flags and using actual Nazi chants to be able to confidently point a finger and identify a Nazi.
Henrywinklered ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:50:34 on April 1, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
A Nazi is a member of the National Socialistic German Worker's Party. You can use the terms racist, white supremacist, etc. Holding a Nazi flag doesn't make them Nazis. A Swedish man could hold an American flag and love the USA - doesn't make him an American,
Moogatoo ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 13:56:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah reasonable like calling an AR 15 an assault rifle because it looks scary. No one is fighting for their rights to fully automatic weps dude.
Bnjoec ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:06:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The most powerful armament was a freaking cannon. A long 9. And you know what? It was ruled that citizens could own them under the 2nd back in the late seventeen hundreds. So yeah pretty sure the Founding Fathers knew a thing or two about creating a better form of government.
lord-denning ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:04:53 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The founding fathers were deeply suspicious of tyrannical governments (even, potentially, our own) and wanted us to be able to protect ourselves from such governments. In order to exercise the principle of the second amendment we may not need rocket launchers, but we need more than muskets.
Paranoidexboyfriend ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:47:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Dude the machine gun was invented 100 years prior to the second amendment. Have you tried learning about subjects before opening your mouth?
YouGotMuellered ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:48:38 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Please, educate me. Link me to information about the machine guns that were available for use in the US in 1791 so I can read up on them.
Paranoidexboyfriend ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:06:27 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Look up the Wikipedia entries for โpuckle gunโ and โribaldequinโ. Hell they had repeating crossbows in the 4th century
YouGotMuellered ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:44:48 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, that's cool from a historical perspective but I'm not sure it completely invalidates my claim. The fact that these inventions seem to have been largely ignored by military strategists and governments for decades/centuries seems to confirm my claim that the founding fathers didn't foresee a future filled with these becoming viable firearms, let alone available affordably to civilians.
I mean, the first is basically just a multi-musket/cannon. It requires you to reload every barrel between rounds. It basically turned 1 guy with a cannon into 5 guys with a musket which was probably useful in certain situations... but comparing it to modern firepower seems like a bit of a stretch. I mean, once we set aside capacity, reload speed and killing power we need to address range and accuracy if you really want to claim that the founding fathers were prescient enough to imagine what modern firearms would be capable of and still enshrine in the constitution the right to tote them around our cities during peacetime.
Though you brought up repeating crossbows so you don't seem overly concerned with directly refuting my claim that the 2nd amendment was written at a time when the sheer killing power and availability of modern weapons was beyond imagining.
Paranoidexboyfriend ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:03:06 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Dude the most powerful weapons back then were cannons and citizens were allowed to have them. There was nothing the government had that citizens werenโt allowed and that was the point:
YouGotMuellered ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:35:17 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Well, first of all I think that's arguable depending on your definition of power. Cannons were powerful weapons in very particular circumstances - when they could be fired from well-defended positions at large groups or static targets. They were slow, inaccurate and easily overrun by cavalry or mobile infantry.
Secondly, what I'm talking about is what the founding fathers were envisioning when they authored the second amendment. Even if they were thinking about cannons, I promise they weren't envisioning a gang of kids rolling a few cannons onto a hillside and opening up on a school full of children for their own sick amusement or to fulfill some demented suicide fantasy.
Can you honestly tell me without a moment's second thought that if we could travel back in time and show them coverage of Columbine, Virginia Tech, Fort Hood, Aurora... that you believe they would have turned around and penned the second amendment with precisely the same wording?
Or do you think maybe they would have considered being a little more specific about the details and their intent?
Understand I am a gun owner. My father bred and trained bird dogs. I grew up competing in sport shooting competitions with him and taking days off school to hunt deer and subsequently turn them into pounds of delicious jerky. I support responsible, reasonable gun ownership.
I just believe the system we have right now is broken and the religion that has been built up around the 2nd amendment is a toxic and frightening barrier to making our relationship with guns healthier and safer for everyone who lives in this country.
Who am I supposed to be more afraid of, the government coming to take my rights away, or my angry, elderly, gun-loving neighbor and his group of drunken friends who have been radicalized to the point of furious hatred against "leftists" by years of propaganda? Who is the greater threat to my family?
The second amendment was designed to make us safer, I agree. But it's failing so why shouldn't we consider how we can fix that? The definition of insanity is to continue doing the same thing and making the same choices and expecting a different outcome...
Paranoidexboyfriend ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:48:53 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If youโre afraid of a radicalized neighbor wouldnโt you like to have something to protect yourself? I think the second amendment is working as is. You canโt just legislate away all crime. Look at the drug war.
34thGiraffe ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 14:19:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The democrats are not the left. Leftists support gun rights and hate the NRA.
hyperion_x91 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:37:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That left isn't the left anymore, they're practically considered centrists by the far left at this point.
34thGiraffe ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:17:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Youโve got to be kidding me. You tell me one serious candidate for president that was to the left of Ronald Reagan in 2016. Bernie Sanders was the only one. Dwight Fucking Eisenhower campaigned against increasing military spending and for a 90% top income tax bracket. This country has moved so far right in recent years that every single democratic ticket since Clinton has held very right wing economic views. Democrats support interventionism in the Middle East, the repeal of Glass-Steagal, and free trade agreements. They refuse to support single payer healthcare. Itโs easier to be a fucking nazi in this country than a leftist. I get it if youโre upset that centrist liberals have bad views on guns, and I agree, but to say that this country is moving towards the left is ignorant at best and blatant self-victimization at worst.
hyperion_x91 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:30:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, I didn't say the country is moving more toward the left, sorry if I made that unclear. I'm saying that the outspoken/most heard is the new far left and if you aren't with them you're against them. So even if you're a more centrist liberal with reasonable views and beliefs you're branded a Nazi by the new far left. I don't think there's necessarily more far left, just that they screech the loudest.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 13:55:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I accept this. The left is just so much worse.
theodorechodesevelt ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:37:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The biggest lie I was ever told when I was up the ass of the left was that it was always 1 side versus the other. That the other side wanted to take away and our side wanted to give more.
It's really interesting how people will acknowledge that the right wants to take away things like- the freedom for anyone to marry regardless of sexual orientation, but won't acknowledge that the left has some MAJOR issues with wanting to remove freedom of speech and the right to assemble (I mean, only for those opposed to them. They get to keep doing what they want)
This plays heavily into freedom of speech too. Sure, advertisers can and should be able to choose what they want their products associated with, but this is being willfully obtuse. The ads go to supporting Reddit. They don't support each and every subreddit and endorse everything on there. It's a user-based website. If you start removing things that you feel offended by because it doesn't fall in line with your world view, you're creating an echo chamber and suppressing freedom of speech. Reddit already removed the ads from the offensive subreddits. You're ridiculous if you think they should remove them from /all just because users voted to get something you don't like on the front page.
DesignGhost ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:53:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I was right there with you buddy.
xSaviorself ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:32:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The right to assemble should always be protected, indifferent of the cause or identity. Free Speech is different. You have the right to say stupid shit, but when you say stupid shit I don't have to respond with kind words and lollipops, remember that your words have meaning and you will be held accountable for your words and actions. That's how I've always treated the idea of free speech, and I think that using legislation to remove speech just because it is considered 'hateful' is wrong. We must be allowed to respond to hate with our own form of protest, protests of hate. Now that's a whole load of idealistic bullshit as far as the law is concerned now.
It's quite sad, but at the end of the day you must remember everyone has their own opinions, and mine stop where my rights end and yours begin. I disagree with legislation to limit the freedom of speech, and definitely support the right to assemble.
Remember though: free speech and the right to assemble does not absolve one of the weight of their words and actions. Accountability must remain tantamount, as we've seen what happens when bad people are allowed to get away with bad things.
Seriously though, you're missing the point. I don't give a shit about whose ads are shown where. I want T_D gone because of it's numerous attempts to brigade other subreddits, vote manipulation, propaganda, hate speech, and calls to violence. I'm still not sure what the fuck Reddit is doing banning communities based around airsoft and gun trading, unless those communities are actively used to promote what I want gone from this site. I want hate groups gone, left and right based.
Is asking for removing an outlet of hate speech, calls for violence, vote manipulation, and propaganda a bad thing? Is my worldview wrong for wanting to rid the world of Nazis and violent fascists? It may be naive. I don't want to live in a world where I have to own a gun to protect myself from the world whose out to get me, and I know there are a lot of places out there that make people feel that way. I'm glad I no longer live there.
I guess you missed the whole vote manipulation thing... Which is against Reddit's Terms of Service. That alone should be enough to have them removed.
theodorechodesevelt ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:33:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I don't disgree that it doesn't mean you have to respond kindly. It means that you can't be persecuted for it. Websites don't have to adhere to either. They can conduct their website however they like, and the free speech I was talking about was not about websites. Already in Europe a man is going to jail for teaching his pug a nazi salute to piss off his girlfriend. Regardless of how you feel- the government should not get to decide to put him in jail because of it. That's Europe. Not some religiously ran country. America won't be far behind.
you might want not want to hear this- but yes. Because it's what YOU define as such. Actual Nazis and fascist propaganda get taken off this site, but that's not doing enough. Anything that hints at a specific view that challenges your own is decidedly alt-right. Go look at T_D right now and tell me what's on the front page of it that can be attributed to anything you accused it of.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:51:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What? This is literally about trying to silence the "right", and you claim the right is silencing people?
xSaviorself ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:54:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You mean taking away 2A? If the U.S. had better processes to prevent people from owning guns that should not own them (background check, mental health checks) then the left would not be saying get rid of the guns. The right completely fails to find an alternate solution to the gun violence problem unique to the United States.
usernamemyass01 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:32:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You can't simply say "accept it" "acknowledge" to things that are very clearly debatable topics. If you honestly think that both sides are not the same you must not have the full picture.
xSaviorself ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:41:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They're not very clearly debatable topics, that's what the point of my post was. To represent them as the same thing is to misrepresent the ideals common to groups on the left and on the right. To simply say that both ends of the spectrum are the same is laughably false, considering that the individuals who make up this spectrum are all motivated by different ideals and beliefs. That's where this line of thinking you people propose fails: groups of individuals might support the same cause, but each individual supports that cause at a different level, with a different weight and motivation to act.
What has been shown statistically is that the right is quick to violence, and has statistically committed more acts of terror than left-leaning individuals.
I'll provide you with the relevant quote:
The right is simply not the same as the left, and it's shown in the level of violence. The U.S. has a violence problem because the right wing loves violence.
usernamemyass01 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:58:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Please... The stats that forbs artical uses are laughable, but good on you for using the first thing Google has. If you wanna start trying to attribute deaths to ideology to try and pad your point you may need a bit more data. The degrees of violence are debated by tons of "fact checking" groups and right and left wing media. You seem to just wanna argue from the side of "I am right and you better just change your mind" does antifa not worry you? The shooting of Congressmen by left wingers? Or maybe, I would argue, they are just loonies that don't represent the ideology they try to latch on to. The notion that because I'm right wing I'm ok with violence or crime is absurd, I would not ascribe that to you. I know the idea of td scares people but the vast majority of it is harmless. Banning people you don't agree with is childish, and trying to hide behind the notion that they are just evil violent people usually just means you don't have a strong grasp of their ideas. Why does td "have to go"? they have strong mods and ban content that breaks guidelines like everyone else. Don't hide behind the idea that they are violent. Point to direct offences and look into if they were property handled by Reddit and mods.
xSaviorself ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:07:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
http://www.start.umd.edu/news/proportion-terrorist-attacks-religious-and-right-wing-extremists-rise-united-states
Or I could use any number of these:
http://start.umd.edu/topics/right-wing-terrorism
But no, I chose to use one the summarized other reported statistics. You can hate the site, I don't care for Forbes either, but the numbers are real and discrediting them is spreading misinformation.
No, Antifa doesn't worry me, Antifa didn't fucking exist in the United States until it became a mainstream talking point during the 2016 election you fucking moron. Antifa is anti-fascist. Clearly you can't tell by my tone against violence that I don't support fascism, and while i don't support murdering congressmen, I support investigating Mitch McConnell, Devin Nunes, and Paul Ryan for Obstruction of Justice and Treason, and any others suspected of being complicit or held under kompromat.
Banning the community is a must because they committed vote manipulation which is against Reddit ToS, are a source of growing hate speech, and is a place filled with calls to violence. I don't care where they go, they can even stay on Reddit and keep doing what they're doing, but their community has broken rules and must be removed.
usernamemyass01 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:54:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So you are ok with antifa committing violence as long as it's against whoever you decide is fascist? No need to call me a fucking moron too c'mon be an adult here. The left never rioted and destroyed cities before the 2016 election cycle?
I get the feeling you are just giving your side moral superiority. Then because you are the good guys you don't feel bad about being rude and trying to silence different views. Are you aware that Reddit has big businesses committing vote manipulation constantly?
You are constantly claiming these calls to violence... Where are they? I'm pretty sure all the real ones are deleted and delt with. I doubt you have ever spent meaningful time on TD while I'm on worldnew and politics all the time.
I understand where you are.coming from. Nobody wants violence, but you can't just scream that someone is evil to discredit them. That's why Donald Trump's won. Call me an eliv no good very bad person long enough and you will get a push back.
Can't you see that? I am trying to find some common ground here.
Xystem4 ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 15:08:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Um, itโs about free speech. I agree with Reddit. I donโt like the Donald, but I support that it should be allowed to exist. I mean, he was elected President after all so that would sort of be like a really political action for Reddit, which we canโt realistically expect them to take.
If you arenโt a part of racist subs like t_d, you wonโt see them. Itโs just that simple. Thereโs no need to remove people just for voicing their opinions, however much we may disagree with them. And hey, even if theyโre being very uncivil or anything, itโs happening on their own subreddit.
So really I donโt get it at all. These people are just trying to hurt Reddit for doing what theyโve always done, and being a bastion of free speech (after all, itโs not something like a necrophilia sub, the likes of which they do ban because they do pose an objective threat and illegal actions)
randomlurker2123 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:53:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They are free to speak, but Reddit doesn't have to be obliged to host their fucking garbage
raoulduke415 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:28:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs funny that you say something that makes complete sense, but because you are even slightly defending the sub you get downvoted. Welcome to Reddit
Xystem4 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:13:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I can take it, thatโs them using their free speech just like Iโm using mine! (Although downvoting shouldnโt be a disagree button, but we all do it).
Besides, so far Iโm in the black! (I think that means positive? Red and black both sound rather ominous to me. And upvotes are red!)
Reddit_beard ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:59:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It doesn't make sense. "Containment" doesn't work- hosting that cesspool spreads their filth through the rest of the site. Have you really looked over There? They are absolutely white supremacists that are incredibly concerned about America becoming "less white." It's fucking disgusting.
OhhhhNooooThatSucks ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 15:47:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone who doesnโt agree with me is a nazi!11!1!1
This is why you got Trump. Carry on, morons.
crimdelacrim ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:02:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Literally his first direct answer in his first debate was โfrankly, I donโt have time for total political correctness and neither does America.โ You can see how something as candid and not desperate to sound PC resonated. His poll numbers skyrocketed.
Fibonacci35813 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:56:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"I can't support a brand that advertises on a site that has the T_D section but I'll gladly use the site that has the T_D section"
What a bunch of hypocritical garbage. And no, I'm not some T_D supporter.
Kruptid ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:20:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Wasn't Reddit created to be a public unobstructed forum?
Continue trying to silence those with opposing viewpoints and you will end up being the victim of ignorance.
g_squidman ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:58:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They should post a poll on /r/announcements and ask us what we all really want them to do with /r/t_d. I know the trendy thing is to just collect our data, but people love answering survey questions about themselves.
Arctic_Drunkey ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:27:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is hilarious. This dweeb wants to target Redditโs advertisers because a website that he freely visits For entertainment has a section that he doesnโt like. Get over yourself. Donโt like Reddit? Donโt visit Reddit. Children.
UUGE_ASSHOLE ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:06:46 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If target had a r/spacedicks, snu snu, midget porn section you might have a valid point... but they donโt... so you donโt.
TheStoictheVast ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:40:11 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Don't forget the communist sections and the, until very recently, stealing sections. Ironically, stolen stuff from Target was probably posted there.
Comeythehomie ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:29:34 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit hates nazis, but also openly says Oskar Groning (a real aushwitz SS nazi) didnโt deserve to go to jail ?
Sounds like political opportunism, but I dunno. Itโs just stuff that makes you go huh.
Junkmunk ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:51:31 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
/u/DethkloksNewManager made a good point. I'm leaving, let me know when they actually enforce the user guidelines.
Nj_all_day ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:27:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This sub, lmao. Reddit acts like Hitler was reincarnated as a T_D mod and the whole sub is basically Nazi Germany in 2018.
Except that it's not, at all.
Pro tip: Just filter the subreddit. It's literally only 1 subreddit. And then you'll never see it again.
Roryedd ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:01:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This seems really dumb. If you don't like it, just don't click it. And you have the option to hide it if that's not sufficient.
It's a goofy meme subreddit. Reddit's probably created more Trump voters than any other source online or on television, by forcing conservatives out of r/politics, and forcing them to go to r/The_Donald. This is just making it worse.
Saneless ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:27:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The real solution is to show MORE ads to t_d people. Of course, they should all be mental health services, and courses on how to be less selfish.
TheOnlyRedPenguin ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 15:17:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Except they're not nazis??? Nazis were socialists
svefnpurka ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:44:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Additionally read up on the Night of the Long Knives when those socialists were executed because they were just as hated as any other opposition to the NSDAP. And this event too place in 1934 already.
613codyrex ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:03:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Of all the things that should die in today's political climate is the idea the Nazis weren't far right.
You know you are arguing with no common ground when even basic facts such as the Nazis being right wing is being debated.
No fucking way this post isn't getting brigaded by these alt-right wing nuts if blatant false facts aren't getting downvoted to hell for being dumb.
falken96 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:20:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They're far-right, socialists are far-left. They killed every socialist they could find. You don't know fuck all about history or politics to make an ignorant claim like that.
flakingnapstich ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 15:20:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Not really. They started that way but the socialists were killed off (literally) in the Night of the Long Knives.
RedPillDessert ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:41:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Nazis were economically left wing, but socially right wing. And even that's a generalization. Stop trying to pigeon hole into a 1D space.
YouSuckCluck ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:45:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Except theyโre not fucking Nazis you stupid dipshits. They just disagree with you. You morons. Calling them Nazis is like calling you all Stalinist communists.
loptthetreacherous ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:23:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Do you not know what an analogy is?
YouSuckCluck ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:02:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Do you not know how analogies work? There is nothing about TD that is even close to naziism. If you think there is, youโre fucking stupid.
loptthetreacherous ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 21:16:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The analogy is that the website/store have a subreddit/section dedicated to a group of people that advertisers/shoppers would find horrible that their money is going towards allowing to exist.
No where is it calling them Nazis, like you claimed, it's calling them detestable people and drawing a parallel to other detestable people in the analogy.
CeauxViette ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:31:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Isn't that how these websites work? The profitable parts allow the unprofitable parts to exist. If every sub reddit had to rake in enough ad revenue to stay on the server, would that make this website better?
loptthetreacherous ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:36:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, these websites work by having adverts on them.
CeauxViette ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:45:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, that was implied...but not every sub reddit pays for itself with the adverts that are on it, and those that don't end up being subsidised by the ones that do and then some. Do you think taking this subsidy away would make reddit a better website?
loptthetreacherous ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:00:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like subreddits that are actively harming Reddit by costing them advertisers shouldn't be allowed to stay on Reddit.
CeauxViette ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:17:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Ah well that's a somewhat separate issue. Obviously not every advert is suitable to be seen on every sub reddit. There's no point in having one for baby formula on a monster truck sub reddit. Or an advert for sex toys on a sub reddit for a child's cartoon. But it's easier said than done making sure everything ends up in the right place. I still don't think a one size fits all approach with the aim to eliminate any controversial material is the answer (such as YouTube is unfortunately flirting with), however, as it goes against the "free for all" user generated material nature of the website. I have hope that there's a happy medium to be found where advertisers have more power to target their adverts.
loptthetreacherous ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:30:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's not what we're talking about here, advertisers aren't just saying "Don't put our advert on /r/The_Donald", they're not wanting their adverts on Reddit at all because of /r/The_Donald.
That's the entire point of the subreddit that this /r/bestof is linking to.
CeauxViette ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:45:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Then they can advertise somewhere else. I think the fair middle ground is giving advertisers the control they want vis-a-vis what their adverts are seen beside. But if someone running adverts on one channel takes issue with something on another channel, they can either leave or lump it - after all, that channel could well have its own advertisers.
loptthetreacherous ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:51:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And thus we come to the analogy of the Nazi section in the store driving away customers and being bad for the store.
CeauxViette ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:50:27 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Or Nazis on one TV channel driving away advertisers from a different channel on the same network. Or viewers.
Does that happen with any regularity? I don't think so. I think it's an incredibly small minority who would stop watching or advertising on ITV 2 because they saw something they didn't like on ITV 3.
Besides, it's not bad for the store. The appeal of the store is it caters to everyone. That's how it gets such footfall to begin with to get people interested in advertising inside it.
loptthetreacherous ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:26:05 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Brilliant analogy. If a TV channel has a show dedicated to promoting hatespeech, then yes, advertisers would pull their adverts from that channel.
CeauxViette ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:46:46 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, but of advertisers that didn't want their products shown alongside that show, what proportion would be content to advertise on the same channel during a different program, what proportion would not advertise on the channel at all, and what proportion would not advertise even on other, entirely different channels from the same network?
This is what has to be discerned for this website to operate effectively going forward.
loptthetreacherous ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:51:41 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'd be pretty confident in saying a TV channel with a nice slot dedicated to shows about hatespeech would have a majority of advertisers pull their adverts from the channel in its entirety, just like a lot of advertisers are pulling their adverts from Reddit because of hatespeech subs like The_Donald.
Where does that fit into the analogy? If the TV channel is analogous to Reddit, what is the network analogous to?
CeauxViette ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:42:30 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Television as a whole is the Internet. Reddit is a network. Subreddits are channels. Posts on a subreddit are programs. That is, I think, the most apt analogy, and the best model for reddit to pursue as regards advertising.
I think, given control over what their adverts appear next to, the majority of advertisers will be satisfied. Besides, if your adverts aren't next to something, you oughtn't to get a say - because you're not the one sponsoring it!
loptthetreacherous ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:47:12 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But they're not. The subreddit this bestof links to is a subreddit dedicated entirely to advertisers removing themselves from reddit because of subreddits like /r/The_Donald.
CeauxViette ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:31:20 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Do you think this represents a majority of advertisers?
loptthetreacherous ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:39:39 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I reckon if all reddits advertisers saw all the horrible content that goes on in /r/The_Donald, enough of them would back out of reddit entirely for it to be an issue.
CeauxViette ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:41:56 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Perhaps the reddit logo should be taken away from subreddits so there's no chance adverts in one subreddit could be construed as being linked to another. Any advertisers not satisfied by that are probably a fringe minority, after all, at that point you may as well abstain from any Internet advertising, since hate speech can be found on the Internet.
loptthetreacherous ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:01:09 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You really don't know how much advertisers try and avoid being linked to controversies. I'd imagine with growing concern for trans rights, they'll be extremely cautious about them having any links to places like The_Donald, which is an absolute cesspool of open transphobia.
There's a difference between a website having users that occasionally making hatespeech and a website specifically going out of its way to keep a section of its website that is rife with hatespeech and incitements of violence. A website can't control the occasional user bringing up hatespeech or inciting violence, but they can control the existance of a place where these things are not only common place, but encouraged and applauded.
YouSuckCluck ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:15:46 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Again, youโre a dumbass. Just because people disagree with you politically doesnโt mean theyโre horrible. I think that far left communist shitholes like r/politics and r/esist are horrible, yet Iโm not on here demanding they be banned like a fascist, because I support free speech, unlike you dipshit freedom haters.
loptthetreacherous ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:25:07 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, let's stop pretending /r/The_Donald is a political sub, it's a sub full of discrimination: Racism, transphobia, sexism, you name it, it's present on that sub.
xEvinous ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 21:08:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
except for t_d and trump supporters are not Nazi's in the slightest sense. you don't have to like them, but don't equate them to a genocidal ideology which killed millions
ztoundas ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:15:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Same could have been said for Nazis, in between 'Germany First!' and the genocide of millions.
xEvinous ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 22:37:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So then by your standards, anyone putting their country first is a Nazi. Because t_d and supporters aren't calling for the extermination of the Jewish and a total pure Aryan race population. Call them whatever, but they're not Nazi's. If we're going to pick apart every policy the Nazi party held and equate them to today, everyone's a Nazi. Fan of socialized healthcare? So was Hitler, Nazi.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:52:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
LoL that nutjob who wrote the comment made it look like only whites can be racists while that statement is far away from truth , just search up any reddit post about the last BLM protests , you'll see a lot of black ignorant racism ( the cop who shot was black ..still ..)
mildewed ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 13:09:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Horseshit like this shows tyrannical in their earnest idealism the young can be: "Be tolerant or I'll destroy you." Lord of the Files stuff.
blolfighter ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 13:12:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If I become a sysadmin I guarantee you that I will call myself Lord of the Files.
OMGWTFBBQUE ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:20:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, because if there is one book that preaches tolerance, itโs Lord of the Flies.
ImpliedQuotient ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 13:24:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well, there's a pretty famous Karl Popper quote explaining that tolerance shouldn't be extended to the intolerant, because the intolerant will always exploit a tolerant society to spread intolerant views.
TheManWhoPanders ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 14:12:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's a pretty asinine comment that's been torn apart by other philosophers. You absolutely need to be tolerant of intolerance; inoffensive speech does not require tolerance to begin with. Only offensive speech does.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:22:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So you should be intolerant to those you personally deem intolerant? Do you know what tolerance is?
vialtrisuit ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 13:53:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well then lets start by getting rid of all the leftists then. Lets do it Pinochet-style.
ImpliedQuotient ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 13:59:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"Get rid of all the _______" is an intolerant stance. Tolerance or intolerance has nothing to do with political or social viewpoints, and everything to do with allowing the opposing viewpoints to be expressed.
YimannoHaffavoa ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:15:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Kind of like... "Get rid of all the /r/the_donald users"...?
Kruger_Smoothing ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:50:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
He didnโt say get rid of them, he suggested murdering them by throwing them from helicopters. He proves your original point.
vialtrisuit ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 16:58:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You're being way too literal. I think we should give all the leftists an area of land and let them build their wet socialist dream, sort of like Israel but for leftists... and they'll starve to death as they realize the failures of their ideology.
It's a win win. The leftists get their utopia and the rest of us get rid of leftists.
Kruger_Smoothing ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:05:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
On their own plot of land would they fail by having socialized medicine and communes? Because thatโs what they have in Israel.
Letโs do it. Weโll cut off the south and give it the right wingers. We can call it Jesusland. Then the remaining blue states can continue to prosper, but even more so since they donโt have to continue to support the welfare red states.
vialtrisuit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:15:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Israel has one of the most free economies in the world, you know, that awful capitalism.
Yes, that's exactly what i'm proposing. Capitalism works so we would prosper. Capitalism is also the reason the blue states propser today. It's the same reason Hong Kong became the richest country in Asia and the same reason Chile went from being one of the poorest to the richest country in SA in just a few decades. Not to mention Chinas surge since they became more capitalistic.
How has things turned out for countries that reject capitalism? Do you happend to know? Venezuela, a country with the largest oil reserves in the world, they've been doing great since they started rejecting capitalism. Right?
Chackon ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:05:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
It seems like you are comparing these people to extreme left, you do know there are things in between yeah? You can still be left without being far ultra left like you guys are on the right. Just because you are left doesn't mean no capitalism should exist you nutter. But it seems your viewpoint is only in extremes, because of how far right you are that any left is full blown communism.
All they would do it impliment couple social policies like single payer healthcare and better unemployment policies. The best thing with full blown social healthcare is that it also effectively reduces the governments total budget expenditure to healthcare compared to client pays. (Compare Australia's 9% full social healthcare where people don't even need private insurance, versus your American 17% budget expend, and you have to pay for insurance while also paying thousands after any operations)
vialtrisuit ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:40:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
I think the "in between" is also extreme. Thinking you have the right to control other people and make life decisions for them is extreme. The government controling half the economy is extreme. Advocating the government stealing 30-40-50%+ of people's incomes is extreme.
Yeah, advocating individual freedom and responsibility is sooo extreme. I also advocate two parent households. SO FUCKING EXTREME!! What's next? I'm gonna advocate not using US tax dollars to subsidize Brazilian cotton framers? I'm such a madman. Talk about right-wing extremism... basically a nazi.
No it means that the economy should be atleast partly planned. That's a horrible and immoral idea.
If "theft is immoral" and "we shouldn't have a nanny state making life decisions for people" are extreme opinions... I guess you're right...
I mean really. I and people like me just want to be left alone. You and people like you refuse to leave us alone and are more than willing to use violence or the threat of violence to make us do what you want. I'm not so sure i'm the extreme one...
I couldn't care less if you and your friends wanted to set up some socialist collective where you pay 80% of your income to some central organization who decides what your money is to be spent on. Just leave me alone and don't use violence of the threat of violence to make me do things I don't want to do. I really don't think that's very much to ask for.
Those are terrible things. Unless by "better" you mean actually better and removing employment regulations. But you're a lefty who probably thinks the minimum wage helps poor people, so I assume that's not what you mean by "better". I assume you mean policies that give employees "more protection" which only results in making it more difficult to hire people while helping no one.
If it's so great and cheap you don't need government for it. If you and people like you want to pay for each others healthcare via some insurance scheme go ahead, I don't care what you do. Just leave me alone, I don't want to be part of it.
Kruger_Smoothing ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:44:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Why try? He thinks Pinochet jokes are funny.
vialtrisuit ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 14:02:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Yes, im intolerant towards intolerant people... ya know, Karl Popper and stuff.
In fact, Hans Hermann Hoppe has a very similar quote.
"In a covenant...among proprietor and community tenants for the purpose of protecting their private property, no such thing as a right to free (unlimited) speech exists, not even to unlimited speech on oneโs own tenant-property. One may say innumerable things and promote almost any idea under the sun, but naturally no one is permitted to advocate ideas contrary to the very covenant of preserving and protecting private property, such as democracy and communism. There can be no tolerance toward democrats and communists in a libertarian social order. They will have to be physically separated and removed from society."
Reddit_beard ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:50:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Oh you're a refugee from r/physicalremoval I see
vialtrisuit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:20:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Ouch?
Reddit_beard ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:14:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah thats about as insulting an accusation as anyone can make
vialtrisuit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:47:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Aight, I'll take your word for it.
Reddit_beard ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:16:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, being called a genocide advocate is pretty harsh. I'm sorry that you had to find out you're human garbage this way, id rather that you had looked in a mirror at some point in your life.
vialtrisuit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:19:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
I don't understand. You think being insulted by a random person on the internet who knows nothing about me or my views is going to hurt my feelz?
It was a pretty poor attempt. Why don't you try again? Give me your best shot. Or referencing a subreddit i've never heard of was your best shot?
I mean, you've never read Hoppe. Right? So really you don't have a clue what you're talking about?
axelG97 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:02:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's a really fucking stupid sentence
Reddit_beard ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:50:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
See, I know you're a bad guy because you use the same memes as the bad guys. Good people don't use the helicopter meme, that's for 4chan fascists.
vialtrisuit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:15:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Good people aren't leftists.
throwyourshieldred ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 14:14:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Do you get paid to be a victim? Because you sound like a professional.
randomlurker2123 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:51:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, when it comes to Nazi's there is ZERO tolerance that should be allowed, we know exactly what they are capable of and we will never let it happen again
Papasmurf345 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:05:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe advertisers realize that most of the people buying their products have jobs and are mostly conservative, and arenโt whiny students on Reddit.
Ryann_420 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:48:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I got banned from t_d for telling them to calm down a bit on a topic of free speech
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:45:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"We can't handle a few grumpy moms sending us angry letters, so you just need to shut it down completely."
DodgerDoan ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:14:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I get it, call us nazis long enough and people start to believe it. Go to T_D yourself and look through the top comments and posts. There is never anything close to resembling white supremacy, we donโt support it, and we hate nazis as much as we hate commies. Or continue to read /bestof posts that constantly highlight how evil we apparently are, that fits the narrative a lot better. If we were just decent people who disagreed on how to create a better country for everyone, it would be harder to disregard any potentially valid opinions we have.
kent2441 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:08:34 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Decent people don't call for the physical removal of blacks and Muslims or claim that the survivors of school shootings are crisis actors.
nomosolo ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:59:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Except they aren't Nazi's. Or Fascist.
CannedSmeef ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:43:49 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Jesus christ the Strawmens just get better and better
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:00:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
BatsForCats ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:36:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Looks like gore got banned?
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 13:06:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:03:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:13:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
OP is the creator of r/RussiaLago, and constantly posts to r/politics. Sensing a bit of a theme.
Stop crossposting your political bullshit dude, seriously. It's this constant political nonsense that is hurting the left more then helping. Trumps a tool, Hillary is a tool. They both suck. Get the fuck over it.
Or keep pushing your political nonsense and red pill some more people.
SpikeNLB ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:57:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And the store manager, /r/spez, occasionally stocks the shelves of the Nazi section himself, claiming he's just doing his job.
lolbroken ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:48:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I had no clue i can be brown and be a Nazi. The fact that people generalize others who have different political opinions is kinda against what they probably stand for. Yet, here i am, not caring for a persons political stance outside of reddit.
I wonder how many of you would actually tell your bosses or employees they were Nazis just because they voted Trump.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:21:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is ridiculous, yes TD is right leaning, yes some of the things they do are hypocritical, and Iโm sure many people donโt agree with them but painting them all as nazis, fascists, white supremacists is entirely dishonest. If you donโt like it you donโt have to go there, let them have their space and you have yours. Many left leaning subs do exactly the same thing TD does but they hardly get criticized, TD doesnโt leak much anyway
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:03:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I second with this because I know an upvote wonโt mean shit when there are leftist brigades and shells down voting dissenting opinions.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:04:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I expect to be downvoted, it would prove my point too. Remember kids donโt think incorrectly
RedScorpion08 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:59:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
โWe disagree with them. That makes the T_D nazis.โ -most of reddit.
Paradox3121 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:24:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
While we're at it, let's just ban reddit. There are unscrupulous individuals with controversial opinions on that website, after all.
This is as dumb as anything I've ever seen on r/The_Donald.
DesignGhost ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:10:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Shit like this is what pushed me from the left. Keep calling everyone you disagree with a Nazi, it only pushed more people away and you look ignorant.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:07:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit is having a hard time with the death of the contemporary left.
evilfetus01 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:56:28 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It died during the last election when Identity Politics divided everyone. Now you have progressive, vs everyone right of left. I'm considered conservative, and I'm a pretty liberal person.
gibson_mel ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:05:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Analogical Fallacy. Target controls what is in its inventory.
MajorMid ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:33:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
What is wrong with you people
evilfetus01 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:21:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone I disagree with is a Nazi.
johnbillaby ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:54:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"Oh my god guys, there's a subreddit that isn't full of shitty stupid leftists. That means they're nazis guys! We can't even look at the stuff there because it makes us start losing faith in our stupid leftist religion..."
AichSmize ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:40:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Their entire premise is flawed, for the simple fact that /r/The_Donald is not about (insert all the stupid buzzwords here). It's about support for President Trump.
Head over there, you'll be surprised how welcoming it is to everyone, no matter what race/gender/etc. Support the President and you're in.
Want hate? Sounds like that stopadvertising sub is the place to go.
kent2441 ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 22:44:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, itโs also about physically removing blacks and Muslims. Great place!
stanhhh ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:14:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Wow, one of the SJW central /r/stopadvertising/ .
sci_lit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:22:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
if they're nazi's then r/politics is full of commies
evilfetus01 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 17:57:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But ma Nazis killed 10 million people!
LiquorTsunami ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:59:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah except there are no nazis there. I have been going there for a long time and there is nothing nazi related or any nazi shit. You all are using that word irresponsibly. T_D could be better described with many other terms that are more accurate.
deadstump ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:58:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
I get money talks and TD is repulsive, but I can't help but worry about the long term effects of a campaign like this in the platform on the whole. I mean there are all sorts of subs that are not exactly ad friendly like subs dealing with sex or strange groups (furries or whatever), or political groups (communists, anarchists, etc.)
I mean what is being done here is basically laying the groundwork for how to remove subs that are unpopular.
InvaderChin ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:41:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You mean advertisers get to choose whether or not their ads are displayed next to nazi propaganda?
Oh man, that's a basic tenet of capitalism! How ever will any business ever function without sucking nazi dick by the foot?
BehindTrenches ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:03:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Is that really how you have to phrase it to get through to people? They arenโt Nazis, theyโre a group of people who share reddit but have different views than you. TD exists for other reasons than advertising.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:11:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They wonโt ban The_Donald because it adds to much value to the site. The Donald has 20 million subscribers, no way they could delete a sub that large, itโs like half of Reddit.
Beegrene ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:44:23 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If you don't count the Russian bots then it's closer to six guys and a Ukrainian bot.
embrigh ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:04:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Keep the_dumbass active and donโt ban it because as long as it scares off advertisement then thereโs hope this website will fail and this massive default subreddit circlejerk will end. I love the smaller subs but seriously at what cost.
pickingfruit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:18:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Anybody I disagree with is a Nazi.
BilboTeaBagginsLOL ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:58:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's sad that skunks can't smell their own stink. Politics and Redacted are swamps much worse than t_d. But, keep spilling your bullshit. It's making you all look like butthurt losers. Just like Nov. 8th.
I always find it hilarious that these folks never actually read t_d they just take it from someone else. Also, what someone considers hate speech is not banned by the First Amendment.
It's sad to see this generation of 'everyone gets a trophy' get soo upset when something doesn't go their way. I'm sure before my career is over I'll have fired over 20 of these trophy kids for their hurt feelings, vindictive attitudes, and inability to conceive that people might have different views than them.
DingGratz ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 15:34:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Wow, the amazing amount of, "golly guys, t_d isn't so bad, shucks, it's just frog memes" responses in here.
DEBATE_EVERY_NAZI ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:43:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"as a liberal black from a different country, I don't see anything wrong with that subreddit, or calling for violence against the victims of a right wing trump supporter terrorist attack"
Yes these all seem super genuine. This comments section was linked in their discord btw
a-memorable-fancy ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:58:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
yeah, turns out we use the site too. must be shocking that your browsing experience isn't exclusively one perspective.
johnlocke32 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:14:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Smells like brigading to me. Deflection of T_Ds criticisms directly at subreddits like politics (admittedly also shit but completely besides the point). Every top comment is a post about how T_D is some fucking pure utopia of mild jokes and humor. They have been caught multiple times negatively brigading other subs. Do I need to provide sources for that you asshats?
kingzilch ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:59:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"Why, we're just here to support the President! And advocate violence against anyone who doesn't. And glorify the military, and demonize the media, and scapegoat various ethnic groups..."
WasteVictory ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:28:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's the difference between people who go to the sub and people who read about the sub. Go there, read some headlines and form your own opinion. It's really nothing more than a Trump/America circle jerk
sandbrah ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 16:02:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The truth is refreshing to see here
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:52:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
His username makes me a think ollifsonโs bread and butter are being fucked with again
Dahboy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:29:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There's definitely a new algorithm. For the last 4 days just about every nsfw post is at the top of my front page. Literally top 8 posts for the last 4 days have been gone wild or something like it. They all have like 500 to 2000 upvotes while everything else below it is at 2k to 35k upvotes. Usually I see 1 or 2 nsfw posts in the top 20 on my front page but never 8 of the first 8.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:04:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, there is hate all over this site and if advertisers really knew what they were attaching there label to.
Whenever I think of Amazon all I can think of now is of the Holodomor Massacre deniers on r/latestagecapitalism and other socialist and communist subreddits
heykarlll ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:35:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
or like America having a walmart in the deep south
thailoblue ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:37:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So basically any platform is not advertiser friendly? Twitter has Nazi's, Facebook has Nazi's, Google has Nazi's, etc. The subraddit is literal example of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
elZaphod ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:26:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
For fucks sake, I already decided to nix Facebook this week, can I please keep my Reddit habit or do I need to start reading again?!
leveldrummer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:51:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe I'm just stoned, but I have a really serious question, if you can shut down a subreddit due to blatant racism and being a breeding ground for white supremacy, that's not really removing those people from using the site. They just filter out into the rest of the site and kindle their hatred to themselves in their heads. Wouldn't it be better to allow the sub reddit to exist and have fun and make jokes, but when that antisocial aggressive racist behavior shows up, just ban those individuals from the site permanatly?
iBongz420 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:09:08 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Something tells me that they aren't allowed to shut down that sub, yet.
butt-guy ยท -20 points ยท Posted at 13:48:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Man I wish I had saved it, but a while back somebody made a thread on T_D which linked to an alt-right website that called for physically assaulting the Florida kids who are protesting gun violence. I usually check t_d once a week to laugh at the mental gymnastics but that was just fucked up.
[deleted] ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 14:49:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's funny, I do the same with /r/politics.
butt-guy ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 15:08:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I stay away from there. I used to be a regular at r/Libertarian but now that sub has been taken over by shit memes from the folk at t_d who pose as Libertarians.
axelG97 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 17:04:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah people at t_d are further away from libertarianism than most leftists
Shmegmacannon ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 15:08:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Proof or gtfo. Stop spreading misinformation.
countrysgonekablooie ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 14:10:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
personally I think T_D shouldn't be banned, as it doesn't solve the social problem of sick people reinforcing the cancer in each other: ban them and the users will find another echo chamber on voat or 4chan or where ever. Instead the mods should be replaced by neutral mods who don't ban any dissenting users. Then the rest of Reddit will flood that place with counter arguments, and perhaps one or two of those sickos might get the help they need.
caesarfecit ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:55:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Lol r/politics should be up for that long before T_D. It's been shown that their mods were literally bought by the Clinton campaign.
While we're on the subject, I'd love to see sweeping mod reforms. But we never will on Reddit.
paleolithic ยท -27 points ยท Posted at 14:12:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
T_D is brigading the fuck out of these comments.
OctupleNewt ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 15:11:45 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Link to where they're brigading from?
This is a front page post.
/r/bestof is a literal brigade, and by far the largest on reddit. Glass houses...
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:44:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
the_dildo uses discord for their coordinated brigades. bestof never links to the_dickhole but whatever you need to do to keep that victim complex
Lovefist1221 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:06:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You're absolutely right, Discord chat is going crazy about some "leftist firebrand who keeps coming up with hilarious and inventive anagrams for t_d." They're really pissed!
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:14:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
its not hilarious or inventive but it makes the_dumpster posters mad sooooooo
ยฏ\_(ใ)_/ยฏ
sandbrah ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:07:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This entire topic is a brigade of T_D.
SrbijaJeRusija ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 15:05:47 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Brigading is if there was a link posted in the sub to here. This is on the first page of r/all. The sub mods have the power to remove it from r/all.
paleolithic ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 15:11:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Whatever the word for it is, T_D propagandists are doing their best to polish their reputation here.
not---a---bot ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 15:43:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Ah yes, the "everyone coming in from /r/all outside the echo chamber is a TD brigade" response. Because you're absolutely certain the post has no valid grounds for being criticized /s
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:56:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
they didnt even say the post has no valid grounds for being criticized dipshit. the comments of this post is literally chock full of the_dildo posters. you seem a bit thick
BlackLab1987 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:55:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Russian bot reporting for duty BLEEP BLOOP.
hashtagpow ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:29:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Someone doesn't agree with me? Well it's obviously a brigade from TD. There's literally no other explanation. It's impossible to disagree with my opinion.
[deleted] ยท -19 points ยท Posted at 14:32:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
bestof posts trigger them really really hard for some reason. dipshits in this thread pretending the_dildo isnt pure cancer ๐๐
the_dumpster posters are triggered much easier than SJWs
paleolithic ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 15:17:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Your comment really triggered them
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:29:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
i think they arent huge fans of being called on their shit
[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 17:09:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Hey guys I don't actually post on T_D but what's wrong with them? It's just a sub for Donald Trump, our president. Also there's totally no Nazis there. Also if you censor them that's against muh freeze peach.
It's like the same copy and pasted comments over and over again.
SquanchIt ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 16:25:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Do you know what a brigade is? I see this complaint all the time in posts I find browsing /all, ie somewhere where tons of people will just come across it.
TRUMP-TRAIN-2020 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:13:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This would be a better title - /u/DethloksNewManager grossly inaccurately describes how reddit works to advertisers who are too ignorant of how reddit works to have ever wanted to advertise on the site anyways... but that doesn't stop him from bragging about it.
chaun2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:13:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
I know the original premise was "reddit is a place for debate, free speech, and idea exchange" They proved they don't care about free speech when they banned several subreddits a few years ago. At the time I personally wasn't affected other than thinking "well here's a slippery slope". Were I running reddit, the only subs that would have been banned would be the obviously illegal subs (CP). I may hate what has been/ is said on many subs, but I will defend with my life their right to say anything they want. By extension, I would not allow T_d, SRS, Liberal, News, World News, or any other subreddits to ban users that are expressing said right, and not just spamming. I would allow trolls to not be banned, because the freedom of speech extends to them as well. Of course this would drastically change the landscape of reddit from what we have today, and the individual communities would be allowed to have discourse with each other.
Unfortunately this isn't the world we live in. If the Admins of reddit wish to show blatant disregard for the rights of free speech in any subreddit, then ALL the cotroversial, and biased subs need to be banned, and/or given new moderators that can refrain from pushing their own sociopolitical agendas
Edit: In my ideal reddit, the extemists would be allowed to shout into the void, until they were tired enough to listen to the void whispering back. I believe my version would create a much higher percentage of "drifting to moderation", and less echo chambers
Se7enLC ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:29:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Are we ok with the idea of having reddit only host content that maximizes ad revenue?
t_d is not a great example, but it seems like a slippery slope that destroys open discourse and what little free speech still exists if we are ok with reddit administrators censoring/banning content because their advertisers don't like it.
kev8ot ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:19:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Lmao that is such a gross exaggeration. Everyone is a Nazi apparently
Explosivefox109 ยท -55 points ยท Posted at 12:27:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I see thoughtpol has struck again.
The_GASK ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 12:40:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I heard Voat is doing great with advertising
indoninja ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 12:39:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You think people voicing their opinion to advertusers is 'thought police'?
aletoledo ยท -17 points ยท Posted at 12:56:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's a bit ironic that the people trying to utilize capitalism are most likely socialists.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:56:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That cultural marxism flag you're flying is worn out.
InvaderChin ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:43:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's even more ironic that conservatives who beg the invisible hand of the market to tickle their balls don't like it when that invisible hand starts bitchsmacking them for supporting white nationalism.
SynthD ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:36:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs ironic or funny or stupid that you, a capitalist, went to a product of socialism, a school your parents paid for by taxes, and chose to rebel by learning nothing.
aletoledo ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 13:45:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Not by choice. The government passed laws that forced children into the indoctrination mills. Without these laws, then a lot of people would have opted out.
Things are changing slowly and there is an "unschooling" movement growing slowly. I just saw a link that Jordan Peterson is trying to start an online school to get away from the school cults.
edit: nice video summarizing life
SynthD ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:58:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Mad, but interesting. What makes this new school not another school cult in the other direction?
aletoledo ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 14:05:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Same thing my wife tells me all the time, both sides are just indoctrinated to their own side. So I don't have a good answer for you as to which side is the correct one.
indoninja ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:23:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Without them most people would be far more ignorant and there would be more barriers for poor people to get ahead.
aletoledo ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:41:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I guess it's a matter of opinion if the ignorant ones are the ones that follow along with the herd or blaze their own trail.
indoninja ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:44:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Nobody is blazing ahead without an education.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:42:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's also funny that they don't realize eventually these same tactics will be used on all of the content they enjoy. They aren't perfectly ideologically aligned with these advertisers so eventually they'll watch as content creators they enjoy get destroyed by some silly political movement.
[deleted] ยท -58 points ยท Posted at 12:49:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
indoninja ยท 38 points ยท Posted at 12:54:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It is where anybody who doesn't like trump or thinks racism and mysogny is wrong is labeled a liberal crybaby.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:05:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You call them Nazi's, they call you crybabies.
TheManWhoPanders ยท -14 points ยท Posted at 14:24:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Only a liberal could offer such infantile black and white thinking.
kylekornkven ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:08:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Better than orange thinking.
axelG97 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:06:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's called not thinking at all
indoninja ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:20:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yet I am willing to bet you upvoted the guy who called usu g free speech to complain to advertisers 'thought police'.
throwyourshieldred ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:18:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's exactly what they think it is and the kind of thing advertisers are embarrassed to be associated with.
Little_Babby_Brady ยท -25 points ยท Posted at 13:10:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They're trying to shut down conversation they don't like. It's certainly against free speech. Whether or not Reddit has the right to ban whoever it wants doesn't address the idea that they shouldn't because the free exchange of ideas is something worthy of protection.
Illogical_Name ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 13:15:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Iโd agree with that if it were a conversation. As it stands they donโt allow any other opinions or debate on that sub beside their own.
TheManWhoPanders ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 14:26:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Because the "neutral" subs don't allow pro-Trump content. Good luck trying to have any kind of right-leaning opinion in /r/politics.
This all started with that.
SynthD ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:37:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The free exchange of ideas is worth protecting, if it isnโt already. But only with a willing audience and either a government or a willing platform. You have no right to pick the private platform of your choice.
indoninja ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:49:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Is you not letting communists have meetings in your living room against free speech?
Little_Babby_Brady ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 14:07:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I don't advertise my living room as a social platform and then let millions of people join, though.
indoninja ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:19:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit never said they are a social platform where anybody can say anything.
If you had a neighborhood party and people insisted in playing music you don't like kicking them out doesn't infringe on their speech.
Little_Babby_Brady ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 17:03:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Let's just agree to disagree.
PizzaBeersTelly ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:03:44 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You can always make your own reddit and โfree speechโ it up like a motherfucker! The government, nor a source of power that you are excluded from, have not interfered, therefore you are not experiencing censorship.
Little_Babby_Brady ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:02:22 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
According to Google's definition, what the folks at r/stopadvertising are trying to do is censorship. They are trying to stop discussion of topics that are politically unacceptable (they consider t_d to be guilty of hate speech) and dangerous (t_d radicallizes people according to r/stopadvertising).
I have no allegiance to t_d. I think it's a close-minded swamp, but I hate seeing people trying, in an orchestrated effort, to silence others they disagree with.
PizzaBeersTelly ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:40:13 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But they have the ability to choose another platform from which they can spew their hatred. Or also have opportunity to create their own. Your definition of censorship is oversimplified and not applicable in this case as it is not considering every factor to interpret censorship. Calling what Reddit is doing censorship is a reach and really muddles what it truly means to be censored by a power greater than you, in a system in which you are not allowed any other venue of expression. This is not the case. Calling this censorship is akin to a hyperbole.
Little_Babby_Brady ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:18:47 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That was Google's definition. That's why I quoted it.
PizzaBeersTelly ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:39:20 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
True, google oversimplified the definition. Itโs just important to note the differences in severity of censorship. I understand it would be frustrating to be someone who truly believes what they are saying and to have a platform shut down your conversation. But I am also considering other factors, such as which group is being silenced, how much power they currently hold politically, economically and socially. Does a group whose current political affiliation runs several branches of the government as well as a conglomerate of businesses, tied together in the interest of serving only the needs of each other merit my defense? I personally do not believe so, as they have proven capable of captivating an audience. They have won the highest office in the land. There is a movement increasing in power and numbers with their ideologies being shouted from every opportunity. I donโt consider them censored. They do, but yet they do not consider what they do censorship, and it tickles me. It tickles me because they are actively engaging in forms of societal and political currency to effectuate true censorship on groups who do not have the same pull, the same numbers, the same money, the same platforms. I am more interested in those who cannot help themselves and are crying out for help. Maybe itโs just my opinion, but itโs not an opinion Iโve made lightly. Itโs after much consideration,research, talking, discussing, listening. These things arenโt just black and white. Anyway Iโve probably bored your face off so thanks for listening.
Shoebox_ovaries ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 13:10:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"I like free speech that only agrees with me, otherwise, banned."
absentmindedjwc ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 13:30:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously... Iโve had multiple accounts banned from T_D because of my opinion... and Iโve never even posted in that subreddit.
They are such fragile snowflakes, theyโll ban you for comments outside of their subreddit.
TheManWhoPanders ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:26:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No, they don't. You're making shit up.
InvaderChin ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 17:51:31 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"Behavior outside The_Donald" is literally rule 10 in T_D's sidebar. You can call bullshit all you want, but the facts aren't with you in any conceivable way.
The truth doesn't care how far you shove your head in the sand.
randomlurker2123 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:52:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
T_D is the thoughtpolice of the extreme right
GiraffeHat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:36:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is a pretty cool idea. That being said, I'd be genuinely surprised if Those_Dingleberries got banned before /r/stopadvertising.
thejusner ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:45:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I just went over to t_d for the first time in like a year, and it seems almost like a parody sub..
CryptoZappa ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:17:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm going to go out on a limb and say t_d isn't a Neo-Nazi subreddit. They're mostly harmless MAGA bros, young conservatives and libertarians.
Vast_Deference ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:59:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Clever, but there are plenty of reasonable people on the_donald. You just have to wade past all the shitheads.
Aestiva ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:55:49 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The donald has nearly 600k subscribers. Nearly one-half of the electorate voted for him. I work among high-dollar, educated professionals who all love his policies if not his antics. I live in the suburbs of a major urban area.
Most of you on Reddit are truly unaware of how much support he really has, and how un-offended many Americans are.
During the gun rights protests a day or so ago, a whole troop of professional men I know went to Cabela's to buy more guns. They're completely disgusted with what they perceive as leftist/globalist push to weaken America.
I think young urban dwelling folks are out of touch with the rest of America.
poopinacan22 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:13:50 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone remember when this and r/pics wasn't just reposted political opinions? I miss pre-2016 election reddit
Explosivefox109 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:57:52 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You know what's funny?
Most of the people behind r/stopadvertising and r/againsthatesubreddits and r/politics are the left wing socialist types who go on and on about how fascism is a system of government where corporations control the entire system and in the same breath argue that corporations should control what opinions are acceptable in the public dialogue.
You can't hold both of those view at the same time unless you're willing to go full Orwellian double-think (half of them are communists, so it's not much of a stretch) "corporations are bad, but they should control what media we're allowed to see.
I think this will be resolved if a supreme court verdict rules that the 1st amendment applies to public internet forums the same way SCOTUS ruled in favor of the 1A being protected in shopping malls as part of the 'public square'.
wrongthink_bad ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:14:54 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Y'all not even trying to hide the agenda anymore are you?
morerokk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:00:38 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So, is this what BestOf is about now? Crying and screaming about T_D? Comparing everyone you disagree with to nazis? Endless spam about Russia?
Guess it's time to block this sub.
bart2019 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:17:12 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Frankly, I'm starting to believe that /u/spez is actually an active member of T_D. That's the only thing that would explain tReddit's stance.
Zestyclose_Session ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:47:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
steve huffman. just look at his smug face
Jura52 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:54:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Jesus, what's wrong with people like this. They get countless hours of entertainment from reddit for free, and yet they can't even live with the idea of different people even using the same site they do. Even if TD is quarantied and doesn't even show up anywhere. This is the equivalent of an atheist going to church service, getting offended, and trying to close it down. Meta-Reddit activism is the most pointless, hilarious waste of time I've ever seen. Do something useful instead.
Some TDs are assholes, but reddit as a whole is not guilt free either. Remember the Ellen Pao harassment and death threats? Remember the Boston bombing debacle? T_D unfortunately does not have the monopoly on assholes.
Also, blanket accusation of a whole subset of populace as "hateful and racist" is what got you Trump as a president in the first place, and it's the reason America is more divided than ever. How about you try talking to each other, and finding common ground, instead of hurling insults and trying to silence each other?
nuunien ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:01:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
This is stupid. Stop empowering advertisers.
These fucks trying to pull ads for an entire website because some of its communities suck is just shitty power play.
I never visited t_d, the only reason I keep reading about it is because these kind of people consider it badthink and keep whining about it instead of just filtering it out.
Not having ads on when showing content for shitty subs is the correct way to go, not this stupid slippery slope.
U don't want Reddit to turn into YouTube-level ad-whores.
Edit: I accidentally a word
ubspirit ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 13:28:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs more like target creating a nazi section of their store after a customer poll requested it. Itโs still insane that they would allow it though.
A_confusedlover ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:38:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think this comparision is way off, yeah t_d is full of some less than desirable people but once you start banning/censoring them its a slippery slope until some more legitimate subs start getting banned. And like honestly anyone who thinks t_d is a sub for nazis is soft in the head, I know they're stupid trump worshipers who don't really think much before they speak but equating them to nazis is stupid, and you really have no idea about what the nazis did. This sub and countless others are only providing t_d with more attention. Advertisers run ads against a lot of questionable stuff daily without knowing about it, using that as an argument against a sub is stupid. r/bestof has gone downhill, filtering it from now on
T00N ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:55:42 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
As soon as the official sub for the president is deleted, reddit will be solidified as an echo chamber. I for one do not give a shit, reddit is on its last legs anyway.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:15:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Man Reddit sure is trying hard to silence the competition!
Take the worst posters on T_D and that represents everyone who visits that sub!
sakigake ยท -19 points ยท Posted at 13:29:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think the main reason Reddit hasn't banned T_D is simply that they don't want to be seen as playing favorites politically. Everybody is yelling at them to get rid of it and do something about far right subs right now, but you can be sure that as soon as they do there'll be an equally loud backlash shouting about free speech this and first amendment that.
Personally I think they should just bite the bullet, drop the pretense of being neutral, and ban these subs already. But it's just ironic to see people accusing them of keeping them for the money when you know the exact same arguments will come out if they ever do ban them.
sajoser17 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 13:59:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So you want to silence the side that opposes your view?
LateralusSC ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:36:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Holy shit you aren't even trying to hide it lmao.
But hey, props for being honest about it, at least.
jaykresge ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:12:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So... In theory of we as a group we're to upvote numerous TD posts daily, they all occupy numerous pages of r/all, thus reducing ads and Reddit's revenue?
We can use this against them.
CreedDidNothingWrong ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:30:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm sorry, but this is a stupid analogy.
First off, unlike retailers who decide what to stock on their shelves, Reddit is a platform that allows users to offer content to other users. So if it has any real world analogue, it's much more like a flea market.
And secondly, it's not like Reddit cordoned off a space on the website and put up a sign that said "Nazis Welcome!" t_d is a sub built around supporting a person who is not only (if somewhat inexplicably) soundly within the political mainstream, but the sitting president of the country. I'm not saying that users of a private website have some kind of inherent right to freedom of speech, but killing the primary sub for supporting Donald trump would come across as an extremely political and partisan move, even if the great majority of users does think that he is repugnant and his supporters are often vile.
And I know some people are going to say that just because the sub claims to be about supporting a political figurehead doesn't mean that it doesn't practically serve as a breeding ground for hate. That may be true, but it's hardly the same thing as having a "nazi section."
I'm personally really interested in civil war history, but unfortunately so are a lot of racists who sympathize with the southern cause. And the vast majority of people who actually purchase civil war memorabilia fall into that camp. If there was a central location where such memorabilia was sold, it might very well become a breeding ground for hate. But I seriously doubt any supporter of a local flea market is going to pull their support just because it allows a seller of civil war memorabilia to set up shop in one of the stands.
Shaper_pmp ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:41:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Am I the only one that finds this kind of claim bizarrely hypocritical when you're still subscribed to and taking part in the site concerned?
Like you won't give money to companies that pay to advertise on a website that permits Nazis and white supremacists, but you will cheerfully stay subscribed to, inflate the user-numbers of, post content to improve the attractiveness of and possibly even be responsible for ad-impressions right on the website itself?
How is that a remotely coherent position?
bossk123 ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 15:25:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Wow, have any of you actually even visited that subbreddit? I love how the narrative that it is a racist subbreddit was spun, and now everyone pretends like there is this huge evil subbreddit now. Are all the non-white people who post on there white supremacists too? Did any of you stop to think that maybe Reddit hasn't done anything about it because upon proper investigation it turns out it's just a protrump subbreddit that doesn't violate rules? Also, if the guy who shot at the Republican congessmen was a frequent browser of a berniesanders subreddit I would not pretend like that's where he got his ideas. Crazy people are just crazy. Please, just try to be non biased and think critically for once. Its okay, I promise.
Symplystyc ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:43:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Nah man that sub is full of crazy cultists. One could only hope they have a suicide pact for when King Don is gone.
perry147 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:34:13 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Did the BernieSanders subreddit openly embrace racist ideology? Did the BernieSanders sub have ties to the Alt-right movement that has ties to Neo-nazis movements?
This false equivalence that is being pushed so hard is why we are losing perspective on so many issues.
bossk123 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:54:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Many left commenters spout extremely violent rhetoric all the time, in fact I already got the first evil comment. Also how bloody easy is it to defame a subbreddit. I could go post that all right wing people should be murdered on a Bernie subreddit, a few idiots would agree with me, and then conservatives could make the strawman argument that all Bernie supporters endorse violence. It's ridiculous and you know it. All of you know I'm right, you just hate it. So many are just literally incapable of anything of vitriol. Again answer one question. What do you think about the large amount of non-white people who post and use that subreddit? Are they not "real" minorities? Are they stupid? Uncle Tom's? What racist position do you have that you invalidate them? Seriously? If that subreddit is constantly spouting racist rhetoric then why would they be there?
perry147 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:01:47 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Either you are purposely misconstruing my message or you are oblivious to reality.
By your logic a subreddit called nazisAreGreat would actually be created by Jews to be a kind of false flag operation. Not everything is a zebra walking backwards - most times it is just a horse walking forwards.
bossk123 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:17:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Actually that is not what I said, not the logic I am using, and you are terrible at debating. You would literally be laughed out a debate for trying that ridiculous line. I also like how you ignored questions I asked again. You literally can't answer it. Come on, why do many non-white people disagree with you, and pst on that subreddit? No one is probably reading this, but to any observers, note how this man chooses to "debate". He doesn't answer the questions, and he uses common argument attacks. Regardless of what your politics are, don't let people like perry147 become your spokesmen. It's why democrats keep losing so many elections. This vitriol has to end, and you guys have to choose to stop it.
perry147 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:37:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Again with misconstruing the message, flopping about like a fish out of water. Nothing that you have posted answers my original questions and then you accuse me of not answering your questions- when your question are irrelevant to the discussion.
If a subreddit spews hatred and racism it needs to go. Debating them only gives their racist rhetoric โ a place at the tableโ when in fact their should not be one - exactly like a place for NazisLovers should not be set.
Sorry if you are unable to understand my point.
[deleted] ยท -46 points ยท Posted at 13:01:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
ChickenBaconPoutine ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 13:48:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So one person determines the entire group opinion of that sub?
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:51:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:48:35 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
Zestyclose_Session ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:19:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
do you got any proof because i think your talking out of your ass.
sparklingbuttknuckle ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:01:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The only reason that sub hasn't been banned is because the admins know the subscribers would spread out and be more active in other subs. There are enough subscribers that it would cause a huge problem for reddit. Banning that sub would be the beginning of the end of reddit. The ban would piss off everyone.
JRS0147 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:37:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They will not ban a subreddit dedicated to the president of the United States even if the people posting in it are often not at all in line with the president and instead use his name to peddle their hatred.
smacksaw ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:58:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I keep saying a variation of this post...I can fix reddit right now if you just open up /r/The_Donald to everyone.
It's not a Nazi section of a store.
It's more like Costco having a membership-only Nazi club in the store. At this Target example, you're free to ignore the Nazi section just as a vegan is free to ignore the meat section. It's having exclusive, closed membership that's the problem.
This is where everyone is wrong and where reddit is wrong:
No, the point isn't to "close down" T_D. The point is to open it up.
Every single subreddit that is public needs to be open, period, end of story. No safe space, no echo chambers.
If you want a private club, reddit is not your platform for doing so.
I don't care if it's /r/ShitRedditSays, /r/The_Donald, /r/LateStageCapitalism, /r/Pyongyang, /r/me_irl or what. You cannot have a specific philosophy in your rules and then ban people who don't follow it. reddit should not be hosting closed communities, period.
So if /r/LateStageCapitalism doesn't like that people discuss pro-capitalism on their subreddit? Too damn bad! Ban the mods, not the discussion. If /r/The_Donald doesn't want people fact-checking their shit? Too damn bad! Raise the level of discourse in your shitty subreddit.
"But it's a rally" and "but it's for supporters" and "but it's for people who want to elect Bernie Sanders to campaign".
NO.
Not on reddit. reddit is for public communities. It's for people to come together, discuss and talk. If you're an asshole and break sitewide rules? Yes. You get a ban. But if you disagree and dissent? Too bad, buttercup. Suck it up. We need more dissent.
You need to tell advertisers that reddit isn't communities, it's factions. They are advertising to membership-only communities of people who become radicalised and extreme because they silence all dissent.
falken96 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:19:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
...and how are you not free to ignore T_D? Who's forcing you to look at it?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:05:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So no real discussion, just unreadable skirmishes by bridgading idiots offended that something exists?
paleolithic ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:14:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You think there's any real discussion there now? That's cute.
thingandstuff ยท -69 points ยท Posted at 12:51:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Fuck t_d, I hope it is banned, but I don't like how this stuff goes down. It's the majority censoring the minority, and even though it might be the right thing to do in this case it may not be in others.
I would much rather work towards ending anonymity on the internet than this Snowflake War of who can play the most upset and convincing victim. Make people accountable for what they say, not internet hosts.
We do not have a right to anonymity. And I'd like to see how these cowards act if their employers can google them and see who they really are.
MonaganX ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 13:23:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You do realize that there are a lot more people who would be affected by a total loss of anonymity online than just nazis, right? What about a gay teenager who has not yet come out to their parents and is seeking support? What about an employee who wants to shine light on their company's shady business practices but doesn't know how to go about it? What about someone with mental illness or another socially shunned illness seeking support and advice from others with the same issue? What about a student who wants to talk about issues with their school's administration, or a person wanting to talk about contentious issues in their community?
Don't be so eager to dismiss anonymity as "not a right". Sure, it can be used for hate-speech, online harassment, and misinformation. But it also empowers those who would unjustly be oppressed, shunned, or ridiculed, forced to keep quiet, conform, and suffer silently.
InvaderChin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:53:26 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Nope. There's no bullet in that gun. I'll happily have a sit down interview with James Lipton in front of my entire family and every person I've ever met and go into detail about the weird porn I've watched and weird things I've thought while stroking myself. The porn I've experimented with is one of the most embarrassing part of my existence, yet compared to support of Nazis, what I jack off to means less than nothing. I'm only hurting myself, I'm not calling for a system of government that is known for persecution of minorities.
Loss of anonymity isn't as scary when you're not a narcissist crafting your public persona to be as different as possible from the life you keep in private.
MonaganX ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:22:09 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The "you don't have to be worried if you have nothing to hide" argument. You quote only the first sentence, but do you think your hypothetical indifference to your hypothetical confession that you've watched some weird porn invalidates all the examples of people I've listed who'd be facing actual consequences? You may be (hypothetically) willing to "put it all out there" but that doesn't mean we should readily give up our anonymity just because some guy is fine with sharing their porn habits. Not everyone's secrets are as (hypothetically) trivial as yours.
Society isn't a friendly place full of people who will accept you for who you are, no matter what, where whistleblowers and lepers are welcomed with open arms. Once we successfully get rid of homophobia, shady business practices, ableism, the stigma on certain illnesses, transphobia, and everything else on the long, long list of how we're shitty to each other, then sure, we can get rid of anonymity and not have to worry about innocent people suffering from it. But at that point, we would also no longer have cesspools like t_D, so what would be the point?
thingandstuff ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 13:28:20 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
This is a good point. Maybe the cultural enforcement of a standard that we completely ignore information on the internet unless the host or provider verifies identities would be better.
So, for example, a site like Reddit should only accept registered/verified users. Then there could be another site like Reddit which is as Reddit is now, anonymous. All we really need is the cultural understanding that we don't need to take the anonymous corners of the internet seriously, and they shouldn't even enter in to our political discussion.
The alternative is that we have a majority rules situation where the majority can censor the minority. What if T_D were right? Hell, what if T_D were actually the majority and were trying to ban reddits which oppose them? There are no perfect solutions.
MonaganX ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:59:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
We already (basically) do that, or try to at least, so we could just skip right to the part where no one takes the anonymous corners of the internet seriously - but that bit's easier said than done. We've been trying for a long time, but people will still listen to completely unverified news as long as it suits their beliefs. It also wouldn't solve other problems with communities like T_D, such as providing a platform for radicalization, or for organizing their "movement".
Not that I have any good solutions myself, if there are any.
thingandstuff ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:09:41 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The 2016 election seems proof to the contrary.
MonaganX ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:13:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You left out the very important bit that follows:
Lipstickvomit ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 13:37:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And who exactly are you, if you don't mind me asking? How can I be sure you are not just out to get the identities of the people you disagree with so you can try to silence them?
Would you please provide a picture of your drivers license and at least two different bills(electricity/water/cable/etc) so I can make sure you are who you say you are.
thingandstuff ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 13:54:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Irrelevant comment. To the top with you! +1 +1 +1!
That's exactly what is being discussed. You don't think what we want to happen to T_D could happen to a subreddit you don't want to have silenced?
Lipstickvomit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:23:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Irrelevant? Shouldn't you at least try to be the change you want in the world? Do you want people to stay anonymous on the internet or do you not and if you don't why won't you take lead as an example?
No it's not. We are discussing the fact that I doubt that you want to give out your identity and only wrote what you wrote because you wish to know who the people are that you don't like.
The only ones against anonymity are those who have a wish to know who they are dealing with.
We want to happen? When have I stated anything about what I think about T_D and its users?
Also that is beside the point of the topic of the OP, this isn't about silencing opinions it is about trying to remove an inconvenience from a place you frequent.
T_D is the equivalent of seeing a dude diarrhea shit on the floor of isle 5 of your local store, you spot him every day you are there and you ask the managers to try to deal with it and not have him shit on the floor because it contaminates the bread.
You aren't trying to force the guy to never take a shit again in his life but that he go and do it in the toilet or the bushes instead because shit doesn't belong next to the bread.
thingandstuff ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:34:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
We're talking about whole communities. You challenging me to identify myself when everyone will will remain anonymous is completely irrelevant to the conversation.
Bye.
Lipstickvomit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:05:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
No we are still not doing that. We are talking about individuals being anonymous on the internet and how you seem to have a problem with that.
Of course I challenge you to it, you are the one who brought forth the idea that people shouldn't be anonymous online.
Get off your high horse and lead by example, show us who you are if you don't think being anonymous is a bad thing. If not, then we all know that you are simply out to stay anonymous yourself and have all the information you want about people around you.
thingandstuff ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:06:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not going to be lectured by someone on what I was talking about.
Bye asshole.
Lipstickvomit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:19:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Coward.
Do you even know what a community of people is made up of?
The answer is individuals and if you want a community to not be anonymous you also want the individuals in it to not be anonymous.
Your entire deal is that you want individual people to identify themselves but only as long as you don't have to do it yourself.
[deleted] ยท -16 points ยท Posted at 12:57:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
kn05is ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 13:03:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If TD were all about free speech, then they'd let other people who don't share their opinions join the conversation. GTFO of here with your hypocritical BS.
ChickenBaconPoutine ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 13:45:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
There is a sub for that and it's r/askthe_donald
t_d makes it VERY CLEAR on the sidebar that it is a 24/7 Pro-Trump pep rally. People complaining about having gone on t_d and having been banned will inevitably have broken one of the rules. It's like going on a cat sub and posting a pic of a dog and saying cats suck and then complaining you got banned.
kn05is ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:18:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Td makes it very clear that freedom of speech is not something they truly support, specified by that rule exactly.
So don't go whining about freedom of speech when you can't even practice it. Because if you did over at TD all your lies would be drowned out and disproved instantly and they wouldn't spread as easily. Can't have that now, can you?
raoulduke415 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:47:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Pretty sure they support freedom of speech. But this is a privately owned website, and almost every other sub on this website has rules that can you get you banned if you donโt follow them...
ChickenBaconPoutine ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:36:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If they didn't support it, they wouldn't have that other sub where people can go discuss.
kn05is ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:49:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's a self contradiction dawg. Can't have it both ways.
Free speech doesn't only mean saying the shit people don't want to hear, it also involves hearing what others have to say about it too. Having a separate bubble for this is a contradiction.
You may not like to hear it, but it's how it is...
Zestyclose_Session ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:13:01 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
that sub still bans you if you disagree too much. td is an eco chamber and eco chambers are bad m'kay.
raoulduke415 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:45:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And the rest of reddit is an echo chamber as well. Should we ban the rest of reddit? I got banned from twoxchromosomes because I asked for someone to clarify their views in a t_d post. Wasnโt even posting anything pro t_d
Zestyclose_Session ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:18:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
reddit has problems, no shit. and theirs this one giant orange problem that it really needs to address.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:34:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
kn05is ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:53:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If you post comments in there, and are not banned from it, then you are in with them. That is a form of support, is it not?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:49:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
kn05is ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:00:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
This is the world we live in, unfortunately.
With more and more evidence surfacing that there were concentrated attempts to sway our opinions from a hostile foreign agency and that they were using these poor gullible fools over at TD to push it. So yes, there is a line in the sand drawn and I chose a side.
Also, in this age of information, where one can discover for themselves what is fact or fake, when you have one side pushing absolute lies, easily disprovable lies, and other distortions of truths, you kinda need to pick the side that is telling the truth, right? And show the lies for what they are.
Edit: let us not forget the hateful comments that are made on there. By participating with those people, you are enabling it.
techiemikey ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:12:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Physical repercussions implies violence, not getting fired.
SynthD ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:33:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think he meant real world, as in your personal reputation of your birth name.
tryhardsasquatch ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 13:10:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Nothing op said advocates against free speech or sports physical repercussions. Wtf are you taking about
Feral_PotatO ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 13:11:58 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone has a Free Speech right, not everyone has to listen, nor do they have to legally provide you a safe space to incubate your hate.
Sorry asshole. :)
Doobz87 ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 13:02:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
...who are you talking to, exactly?
Edit: whew I inadvertently jumped on the downvote train, apparently. Choo choo.
madogvelkor ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 12:58:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The Religious Right used the same tactics back in the 80s and 90s, though I haven't noticed them doing it any more.
thingandstuff ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:06:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
...The religious right used this tactic before the internet was even a thing yet?
beetnemesis ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:30:36 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Complaining to advertisers. "You sell/advertise with this filth, then I won't buy from you!!!"
Except back then it was rap music, or a TV show that had an interracial couple, or whatever else had rustled their jimmies that day.
thingandstuff ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:51:43 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I get it, but at the same time, Amazon sells, well pretty much everything. Do you honestly think fundamentalist Christians would be OK with advertising on a site that sells dildos?
What if Christian fundamentalists still controlled the majority of culture and had the power to put Amazon out of business with their virtue signaling?
This is just a game I'd rather not play.
beetnemesis ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:56:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly I'm more inclined to think, "they do that shit, we can do it too"
Because they're not going to stop.
thingandstuff ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:08:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The downward spiral of America, right in front of us, folks.
madogvelkor ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:39:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
They would do call, fax, and letter campaigns to advertisers to protest shows and music they deemed inappropriate. The best known example is the "American Family Association". They staged boycotts and campaigns with some success. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Family_Association#Boycotts
thingandstuff ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:55:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How is this any different than trying to silence T_D with the same strategy?
madogvelkor ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:13:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It's not, I'm just pointing out that it is a common tactic used by various moralizing groups.
RaNerve ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:04:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Shouldnโt we be more interested in engaging in dialogue instead of shoving subs like the_donald away? I get why you would want them gone, but if theyโre gone it doesnโt mean theyโll stop holding onto their beliefs, theyโll just go somewhere else and then youโve removed your only avenue to engage in dialogue to hopefully change minds. The more you shove extremism away the more to festers out of sight and gets worse. Evil triumphs where good men fail to act. Just because you might have almost no hope for changing someoneโs mind, doesnโt mean you should cut off communication completely. That leads to being disconnected from a section of the population and leads us right back to how Trump got elected in the first place - people feeling like they didnโt matter and werenโt listened to.
PacoFuentes ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 19:08:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I see the liberals want to ban free speech again.
Ask yourself a question...
If you silence racist asshats how will you know who the racist asshats are?
I'd rather have the racist asshats keep their freedom of speech so I know who they are.
Foehammer87 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:22:59 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
booting them off reddit isn't silencing them, you're confusing free speech and platforms again.
PacoFuentes ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:37:47 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Right from the Reddit "about" page...
//Our mission is to help people discover places where they can be their true selves//
I don't confuse free speech and platforms, I simply bother to read what the platform I'm on is about.
TheGR3EK ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:35:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Oo oo I know somebody make a Greasemonkey script that applies a universal theme to any reddit page and adds a line at the end of every comment that says I HATE JEWS that blends in with the background.
I'm bad at Javascript though. And is probably a total waste of effort as I spent 10 seconds thinking this up.
ShalmaneserIII ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:54:29 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
One problem, though: how much of Reddit content- along with the associated ad views per page- consists of people complaining about T_D?
If T_D functions like tossing chum into the water when you make money off sharks coming to fight, it's still providing a useful function to reddit advertisers.
daaaaaaaaaana ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:28:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks! Ill be sure to start this effort in about 30 other subs that are 'hateful and racist' in the way you are describing those words.
HowDoMirrorsTaste ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:59:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
We are changing the world for the better from our chairs at home, what a time to be alive!
Sapphirra ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:25:16 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
But they do: https://i.imgur.com/dexsQTm.jpg
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:51:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Orthanit ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:53:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You arenโt protected by the first amendment on here, and actions have consequences in the real world too.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:01:22 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Orthanit ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:02:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
Except they are, they are constantly breaking the rules.
Edit. And like that itโs deleted.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:59:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
More like Barnes and Noble having a Nazi section.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:05:25 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Zestyclose_Session ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:07:06 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
you cannot tolerate the intolerant.
ShooKon3 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:32:51 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
We shouldnโt tolerate marxists either but thereโs this thing called freedom of speech. It allows people to say things you might not agree with or god forbid find offensive.
Zestyclose_Session ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 18:39:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
okay, anyone who identifies with a fascist ideology should be in jail.
ShooKon3 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:50:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That's quite fascist of you. Imprisoning people for their political ideologies.
Zestyclose_Session ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 18:52:52 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
well they would do the same thing to those they disagree with, so why not use their tactics against them?
ShooKon3 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:01:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Not once I have ever seen people on t_d saying anyone who doesn't agree with them politically should be imprisoned. Clearly you have been brainwashed by the rest of reddit if you truly think that.
ismokeforfun2 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:11:57 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Only people who visit the Donald are liberals looking for things to throw at real Americans faces, and Russians posting shit to make liberals think thatโs how real Americans are. Yea I said it, sore losers.
Korast ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:21:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"Is like Target having a shopper that is a Nazi in their store." Fixed. Also the nazi stopped at a few sections of the store.
I'm sure this will be its own bestof thread any minute.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:01:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Well they could promote free speech...
holy_black_on_a_popo ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:29:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Throwing tantrums when you don't get your way? You don't have to use this site. shocking, I know.
Daddy's Defense Force isn't going anywhere. Stop acting like spoiled children and move on.
[deleted] ยท -30 points ยท Posted at 13:09:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
SynthD ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:38:08 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Remind me, what does Soros want in detail?
Zestyclose_Session ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:21:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
he's he's a globalist. their spooky scarry. and communism is bad m'kay. so lets go after this capitalist who supports liberal ideas because he might be a commie!
ShooKon3 ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 17:52:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Lol yea so many Nazi's in t_d. We should round them all up and send them to death camps next amiright guys? No one should have a different political opinion from the rest of reddit. It's just not okay.
Zestyclose_Session ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:09:23 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
frankly all neonazis should die. im sure a few of them shitpost on the donald.
ShooKon3 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:12:07 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How do I know you're not a neonazi? Do you have any proof that the majority of people that post on t_d are neonazi's? I mean clearly there would have to be a lot to say t_d is like Target having a Nazi section in their store.
d1rtdevil ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 15:25:55 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Hating white people/wishing to erase them with immigration and other political weapons : diversity and tolerance.
White people who resist their erasement for example resisting massive immigration that would make them a minority : racism/hate/nazi.
Ok thanks for the anti-white brainwashing lesson of the day.
rippinpow ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:40:37 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah sure man, people trying to have the same rights as white people is exactly the same as wanting to "erase white people". Get your head checked, there is no plan to erase white people, we are the most prosperous and secure people who have ever lived in history. When equal rights looks like genocide to you, you might just be a racist.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:55:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
all American citizens have the same rights unless they are felons. at least on paper, systemic racism doesn't exist on paper either. I do say paper because people within an organization may abuse their power.
rippinpow ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:06:54 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Unfortunately, "on paper" and "in reality" are 2 very different things
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:12:39 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
though that's the point though nothing is set up to do that people within those organizations do it of their own free will and they should be stopped from abusing their power, but it already is illegal to do in most cases. like you can't control how people think or act but you can punish them for their actions.
GreatNorthWeb ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 16:15:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Are there nazis on the_Donald that aren't downvoted to oblivion as they are on the other main subs?
Sorrowsprite ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 18:05:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
And to be honest, I find /r/gonewild distasteful.. I find /r/wtf distasteful, I find /r/trashy distasteful I find /r/porn distasteful.
we better be getting those banned because I wouldn't want my advertisement on those subreddits!
Here's a list of other distasteful things I want gone
/r/trees /r/opiates /r/prorevenge /r/livestreamfail /r/justiceporn /r/justiceserved /r/depressed /r/offensivememes /r/memes /r/dankmemes
If you guys are to thick to understand what I am saying, is if this happens then it will happen to any subreddit advertisers do not like, to the point where reddit is only a /r/aww and /r/funny platform, reddit and youtube are committing suicide and it sucks that we can't have a variety of all things.
Zestyclose_Session ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:06:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
their's a big difference between porn and harassing school shooting victims.
Sorrowsprite ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 18:08:27 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Actually there isn't as most companies will not advertise with porn :) You can't ban one and not the other, friend.
Will12239 ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 18:53:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
That analogy is terrible and eliminating subreddits destroys the whole point of reddit and will result in the migration away from this site. Pointing it out to advertisers will only speed up the process. It's like saying a bunch of racists go to target not that they produce racism themselves.
rumblith ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:58:50 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Banning them will force them into a safer space and set off more of their autism.
[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 15:07:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 15:39:33 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 15:42:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:50:19 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
ReasonAndWanderlust ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 15:44:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Every single time I see one of these posts I go to their front page and there's no nazi shit. The only shit I see is when someone cherry picks some obscure crap that one of their users did. Every sub has a bunch of assholes.
I think its a pretty underhanded thing to do trying to silence Trump supporters on one of the biggest social media sites on the internet. Yeah trump sucks. He's an asshole.......but whatever group is behind this should be ashamed of themselves. ghqwertt or whoever you are you should take a step back and really look at what you're doing.
It's fucked up.
theorymeltfool ยท -13 points ยท Posted at 14:08:09 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Good thing the people who post over there arenโt Naziโs or Nazi sympathizers.๐
Remember when the real Naziโs required Jews to turn in their weapons? Thatโs what Leftists in the US are trying to do.
I_Am_A_Mudcrab ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 14:24:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"Take their guns, worry about due process later" - Donald Trump (R) 2018
theorymeltfool ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:07:34 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)*
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/28/trump-says-take-guns-first-and-worry-due-process-second-white-house-gun-meeting/381145002/
That was in reference to people already convicted of crimes who shouldnโt even have guns in the first place. It was about going after people known to illegally own firearms. Which is better than things that people like Joe abiden get placed into law.
As a law abiding citizen whoโs never even had a traffic citation, Iโm not worried about him taking away my guns.
Did you hear about all the murders in Chicago lately?? I didnโt hear those get discussed at the โmarchโ this weekend...
youngli0n ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 17:38:03 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
You guys are pathetic. Comparing people who like Trump to Nazis? You guys are practically inciting violence. Luckily I can hold my own but Iโm a darker skinned guy that gets called dumb shit by left wing extremists like you, and put my life in danger, over lies. The Donald sub has many kinds of people of different backgrounds from different countries. Comparing them to nazis means you have serious mental issues. Wtf is wrong with you people? My best friend is black and Jewish and he is a bigger Trump supporter than I am. (Oh and weโre Canadian). Is he a fucking Nazi? You guys are pathetic.
Foehammer87 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:28:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So you're a person of colour, and your best friend is black and jewish, and you're both canadian trump supporters, and also you see no resurgence of neonazis, and you're just going to ignore white supremacists support of trump.
Why do I think you're not being entirely honest?
youngli0n ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:35:48 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The only people I hear talking about white supremacy are the left. Iโve never heard of Richard Spencer until leftists started talking about him. Never once in my life have a I heard a Donald Trump supporter talk about that guy or anything about being a white supremacist. Thatโs just one example.
Honestly... whoโs actually a white supremacist? A few bumfuck backwards hillbillyโs in bumfuck Alabama? Iโm all about holding the police accountable. Iโm even for black communities shooting back, thatโs what 2A is for. So how are you gonna say Iโm supporting white supremacy? Iโm not at all. But letโs not pretend the black community is innocent either.
Foehammer87 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:13:53 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Are you real? Support trump all you like but the whole "only the left talk about white supremacy" shtick is absurd. Congrats on not knowing anything about current events I guess.
Mutinous_Turgidity ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:56:00 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So that's what an actual censor looks like.
jgagnon_in_FL ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:08:02 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
At least this isn't their spokesmodel.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:13:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
In which /r/stopadvertising gets what it wants but still whines about it
Sorrowsprite ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:02:18 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, a nazi section that also has a big multicultural following :\
btcftw1 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:12:32 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
โPolitical speech I donโt agree with is hate speechโ
mcdouglebutt ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:16:40 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Looks like both sides are kind of nazi'ish to me. The donald, for being twats, and the stop advertising groups for actively trying to stifle speech.
xDarkCrisis666x ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:32:14 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
As a Dethklok fan this saddens me, T_d is essentially all shit posts and meme's. If they were to actively harbor the metric ass tons of Nazi content OP claims then yeah advertisers should know. I see more "Nazi" stuff on Facebook than anything that leaks from T_D
As Skwisgaar would say "Dats is totallys not cools"
Kektus ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:57:05 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Isn't the internet constantly at war with advertisements and advertisers? Viral marketers as well? Why do we even care about advertisers? I just feel like we don't actually care about the advertisers (I don't think we should concern ourselves with what they're doing unless it's affecting us) and are simply using them as a tool to eliminate whoever they please.
BlaeRank ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:34:46 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Remember, advertisers are evil and will destroy reddit as we know it.
But we'll get to stick two fingers up at the alt-right, so fuck it.
Shortsighted losers looking to get one up on their political opponents, pretty fucking pathetic.
drjams ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:42:04 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is ridiculous. Every social media site has subgroups, many of which are completely private to the public. Anybody talked to a damn advertiser?
Pequeno_loco ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:44:10 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And here I was thinking a better comparison would be like Target selling MAGA hats. Say what you will about T_D, but at least they don't invade other unrelated subs to spew their garbage like the anti-Trump subs do.
lavahot ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:06:30 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Hey,Nazis need Froot Loops too.
DJShamykins ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:58:17 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
this isn't a target though, it's an online forum.
TheAverageSJW ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 17:40:38 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Has anyone here actually looked at post in r/The_Donald? Half of them are just Trump tweets
AllPurposeNerd ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:44:11 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Except I could actually see a market for that, especially around Halloween.
superalienhyphy ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 18:08:24 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone who thinks r/The_Donald is pro-Nazi is fucking ignorant.
Whoareyou559 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 18:44:56 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
And they say t_d is filled with hate lmfao
XxWITHAMxX ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 15:27:47 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
God forbid you block the sub.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:54:15 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
they dont stay in that sub they brigade other subs. I'm sure they would just make another hub to continue that behavior but you gotta do something about it.
XxWITHAMxX ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:50:21 on March 26, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So shod we ban all the subs they brigade?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:26:10 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
for what exactly? being the victim of something?
XxWITHAMxX ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:55:37 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Victim of nazi brigading. My god I can't believe i had to even say it. How rediculous. If you had good enough logic, you could beat "NAZIS" through open conversation. If your arguments are so bad that you have to ban somebody, its like running to mom because someones not playing fair. If you want to beat somebody, learn to do it yourself and stop relying on admins and mods.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 12:28:10 on March 27, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
you cant beat people in a conversation if they don't want to have a conversation. which they have no desire to argue because by and large they don't care what anyone outside of their circle says.