Reminds me of when I read The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho. Throughout the entire book, he refers to the protagonist as simply 'the boy'. I read the whole book in one sitting, and thought "Wow, what an interesting and meaningful choice to never give the protagonist a name."
Then I tried discussing the book with someone in class, and discovered I somehow overlooked the very first sentence in the book.
[deleted] ยท 130 points ยท Posted at 15:08:21 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
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Cairneann ยท 239 points ยท Posted at 15:29:25 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
He's very well known all over the world, but his writing is mostly ridiculed for trying to sound deep while being devoid of actual thought. In Poland he's become something of a model for that kind of pseudo-philosophical nonsense.
if you love something/one enough, and put in all the work, effort, and thought to finally achieve it, you can then thank god?
Iohet ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 17:38:05 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That's because Poland has the only writer they'll ever need in Andrzej Sapkowski
koredozo ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 17:58:19 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Stanislaw Lem managed to be profoundly philosophical even while writing lighthearted short stories about robots and spacemen. They know how to do that kind of thing.
wyratt14 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:18:18 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That fucking guys name. God damn. It is such a pain to find his books because I can never remember his name, and if I do I can never pronounce it.
It's pronounced very similarly to "Andre" but I've heard others pronounce it similarly to "Andrew." You can look up pronunciation guides for stuff like that. It's the ONLY way I had to figure out how to pronounce his first name. Damn Poland and their interesting writers and their hard-to-understand-language.
It basically sounds like a middle ground between Andre and Andrew but with a "z" sound.
Okay, that's very helpful! Thank you. I can now recommend his books without sounding like an idiot with a mouth full of marbles, or giving the vaguest recommendation ever("There's this awesome book by this guy, he's Polish so I can't say his name, but it's really cool and you should read it!").
I enjoyed the first several books but I really wonder how much of The Witcher just doesn't translate well. I've read that the reason he's so beloved is because he has a distinctly Polish approach to his work. It's layered with word play, twists on familiar archetypes, and really in-depth Slavic mythology that is more familiar with his initial audience. I felt like it was interesting but not quite as mind-blowing as I'd hoped. And the fan translations of the last two novels could have been way better.
I'd love to know if it's just a translation that didn't convey that as well or if I'm just not familiar with the works and source material that he's drawing from. I also made the mistake of pretty much reading the first two short stories a year before I read all five novels in about a month.
"[The Alchemist] is an international bestseller. According to AFP, it has sold more than 65 million copies in 56 different languages, becoming one of the best-selling books in history and setting the Guinness World Record for most translated book by a living author."
It is considered a classic in English-speaking countries and is consistently placed in the likes of "100 books to read before you die" lists, and surveys ranking the best books of all time. Personally I didn't find it very good.
[deleted] ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 15:31:33 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
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[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 18:03:41 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
gosh, you were probably the smartest 12yr old of them all. next, tell us when you first started reading adult novels. let me guess, before anybody else you knew?
Iohet ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:39:54 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Strange that I've never heard of this book and I am an avid reader.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:04:53 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Ehhh I would argue that it's worth the time just because it's so short and simply written. And if you read it, you at least can have an opinion on it (I didn't like it either....overrated).
My sister gifted it to me for Christmas, otherwise I would have never read it. It isn't the worst book I've ever read but it really took some effort to finish.
rctsolid ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:17:59 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think its really meant to be some profound amazing book in reality. What it is, is an average philosophical novel for the average reader. Its average but that's OK I feel.
Which is stupid, because people who read that book either wanted to read it and got something out of it, or heard a stupid story about how a kid ran around Africa for a few chapters. Anyone who didnt want to read that book didnt get anything out of it.
Anyone who didnt want to read that book didnt get anything out of it.
I would suggest that's true of most books.
Off the top of my head, in high school we read The Kite Runner and I hated it. It was a whiny rich kid whining for however-many pages, and I got nothing out of it because I didn't want to read it.
Or Heart of Darkness; I literally couldn't stay awake while trying to read it in high school, so I read Dante's Inferno instead, and relied heavily on allusions to Inferno to complete my essay on Heart of Darkness.
I think one of my favorite (and simultaneously least favorite) memories of high school English was getting an A on a Kite Runner essay that I specifically wrote to mock the teacher. She was friggen crazy about metaphors, so I wrote a five paragraph essay that averaged something like seven metaphors per paragraph.
It was a ridiculous and terrible essay that I got top marks for.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:06:10 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I did this for SAT and got a much better score than the 2 times i took it seriously.
Surely you didn't get better for the English portion for it than the two times you took it seriously.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:59:33 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
So much for all those years of high school writing courses. All you need to do is take the SAT 3 times and your writing skills will go from 3rd grade level to broke college student level in just a few months!
Upthrust ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 16:35:14 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I had a similar situation: we had to read The Great Gatsby and Pride and Prejudice over the summer, and we'd be tested on them with in-class essays when school started again. I ended up really liking The Great Gatsby, and was done with it just a couple days into summer vacation. On the other hand, I knew I didn't want to read Pride and Prejudice because I was a boy in high school, and romance was for dummies.
I read the first section of the Cliffnotes for Pride and Prejudice and got an A on my essay. I reviewed The Great Gatsby too, but I figured that if I liked it I probably knew it well enough. I mixed up Tom's and George's names on my essay on The Great Gatsby and got a D+.
gazbomb ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:12:04 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If you still haven't read P and P do yourself a favour. As a grown man I can tell you: it's fucking delightful.
Same but mine was The Andromeda Strain and I watched like 30 minutes of the movie. I filled in the blanks with nonsense because I figured it's sci fi and anything would sound fine. Got a perfect score. LPT, always pick the least popular book choice, chances are even the teacher never read it.
i got an A on a term paper on three or four books by jane austen. i relied on movies and sparknotes. i fucking hate female victorian writers writing about women. (female feminist here.)
When I was in high school, my dumb rebellious streak shined through and I never read a book assigned. Not once. Not Hamlet, not Romeo and Juliet. Not Catcher. Not King Lear. Not as you like it. I grew up just around the time where the site Sparknotes was up-and-coming, and given how standard my reading curriculum was, I just read the notes on all of them.
The only two books I ever read for high school were not assigned, and both were plays. The first was Faust, and the second was The Iceman Cometh. It was my FSE/ISU, and the assignment was to write an essay comparing and contrasting the themes of both. I struck lucky given that the two have many overarching themes about the pursuit of happiness. Ironically, this was when I was accused of plagarism, as my English teacher thought that no 17-year-old could know the term "Neo-Anarchist", a term I actually used incorrectly given that the Iceman Cometh takes place in the early 20th century.
I also made up a book once, combining plot elements from the then-TV Show "Whitefang" and Hatchet.
The prose in Fahrenheit 451 drove me nuts. It was so dense. I wanted to slap the author and say "There's nothing wrong with writing 'Then he picked up the spade' from time to time." Trying to read something so heavy with description actually becomes exhausting and impedes comprehension after a while. You should ration that stuff.
I thought the same thing, and my best guess is that if it's the first book you've read that has that kind of a message (or the first book you've read in a very long time) it may feel that profound.
He was very popular among the backpacker circuit in south east Asia in 2007. That's where I picked up the book.
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 16:23:14 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Paulo Coelho is a charlatan and it enrages me he gets so much attention outside Brazil.
"Oh, you are from Brazil? I was just reading..."
Fuck. Like we don't have enough stereotypes.
arup02 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:58:11 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I, too, get enraged when I encounter someone more successful than me.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:28:12 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Just like I would not trade my respectful profession to be a televangelist, no matter how much money and attention it would get me, I would not trade it to be a con pseudo-intellectual crap bag either.
It is a matter of moral integrity. Some people have it.
Your point seems ideologically driven. There are other ways to think and feel outside of the socially conscribed and acceptable ways.
I haven't read it fully; I found his writing to be pretty bad, but I know of his message and I see no harm in making this piece of literature required reading. It's just a philosophical perspective written as a story.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:15:19 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You see no harm on making a poorly written book being required literature? Oh well, then, I think Fifty Shades of Grade should fit right in. It would certainly increase reading levels among horny teenagers.
Don't be absurd. What I feel should be in the required literature is a book based on ideas and philosophy that is different than usual. Despite how it's written it still conveys a different ideology, and one that isn't very common in required reading. I think most of the issues with his writing come from the translation; I began to read the English version and just thought the structure and cadence was a bit simple with little imagery; I'm sure it's lovely in its original language, perhaps a bit simple but those ideas are worth hearing, especially at a that time of life when its required.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:49:05 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
No, it is terrible in its original language. I read it in the original language.
And ABBA has a more profound philosophy than this book.
To be more specific: His "philosophy" is the cheap kind found on calendars and self help books. His stories have no development and are just weak. That being said, The Alquimist is the best, compared to the very bad that is the rest of his work.
Fair enough, its still subjective to a point but considering you are really against the philosophies in the book, it would definitely explain your aversion.
I've only read The Alchemist in Middle School, but I really enjoyed it. It was a nice, short story that managed to keep my hyperactive mind's interest.
I thought the alchemist was a decent book. Readv 7 minutes (or 11 or whatever) and felt he's like a giant asshole trying to "pretty woman" sex trafficking.
After that I didn't really care for him.
He is pretty well liked here in Norway. Sells well, but I hope the serious reviews portray him as pulp fiction philosophy
fav ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:53:51 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
What the hell. I apparently skipped that sentence. And I read the the book through in a day. Twice. And only NOW do I realise it.
What the actual hell.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:14:32 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I had a similar experience with The Red Badge of Courage. I thought the main character's name was simply "the youth," but apparently he has an actual name: Henry Fleming.
Captluck ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:09:25 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I've found that the brain needs to warm up like you would do with sports. So I like to read for 5-10 from something random first.
Stcloudy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:12:58 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You can read The Road and have a go at the adventures of a boy and his father (never named for real)
The guy finally finishes The Stand: "Really glad they beat the Walkin' Dude, but when the hell is King going to explain what killed all those people at the start?"
Phrygue ยท 44 points ยท Posted at 14:11:09 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Captain Trips killed them. Apparently he was a murderous pirate.
Agreed. Third act is still great, but definitely the weakest.
Viscant ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 17:18:45 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
There's a reason for that. Stephen King got the worst case of writer's block he's ever had right around the time they got to Boulder. He wrote himself into a corner, had no idea how to finish the story and almost trunked it.
He put it aside for awhile then decided "screw it, I'll blow some stuff up" and finished the book from there. When he started writing, Nick was supposed to be the main character of the book. You can still see traces of that if you go back and read it again knowing that he didn't want the book to end like it does originally.
If it sounds like 2 separate books written by 2 separate guys, that's because it pretty much is.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:25:33 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That could have been me. Its taken me about 2-3 years to finish that story. I read about halfway, and then put it down for a year after getting busy with school/work. I picked it up again a year later, restarted it and got a little further than where I left off the previous time, got busy again... Finally finished it this summer while traveling and it was definitely worth the read, but I feel like I could have missed an important detail or two.
Smirth ยท 173 points ยท Posted at 16:51:44 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I watched Schindlers list for the first time without noticing it was a two DVD set, and was treated to a relatively upbeat short film about Germany losing the war while a factory owner and his Jewish staff waited it out while producing faulty armaments.
I couldn't understand why everyone gave it so much credit and why it was not as horrifying or even long as I had heard. Then I found DVD 1.
[deleted] ยท 53 points ยท Posted at 19:43:42 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
"You made out during Schindler's list???"
"We only saw DVD number 2!! I didn't see the big deal!"
Pi-Guy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:34:31 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
No lie, I got a blowjob during that movie in high school
what a good /r/bestof post actually. Not a comment related to the post its in at all, so its not like it belongs in the sub. ANd its obviously not made up, and is a great and interest comment. Good catch.
Gumstead ยท 158 points ยท Posted at 14:46:21 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Dont worry, there's still someone below questioning why its in bestof..
Khiva ยท 350 points ยท Posted at 14:52:35 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
/r/bestof should only be for one-sided political rants that include key phrases like "/u/fartmuncher DESTROYS arguments against basic income" or "Redditor questions whether Bernie Sanders can actually win. /u/13AndEdgy arrives with facts."
Neaan ยท 62 points ยท Posted at 15:00:51 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I was hoping 13AndEdgy was an actual redditor... :(
Meh, who cares. One man's /r/bestof is another man's /r/shitpost. Not everyone will think the same about a particular thing. If you like it, post it, up vote it, share it.
Well, opinions are like assholes: we're all one. I think I got that right.
tim466 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:49:58 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
bellow?
Gumstead ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:52:39 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I think you forgot to encrypt your comment
Groomper ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 16:15:46 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
I think it qualifies for /r/bestof, but I definitely think it was longer than it needed to be. You could cut down the comment a lot and still get the point across. It sounded like he was very defensive about whether or not this happened straight from the get go.
Edit: Why did I get downvoted for expressing an opinion respectively?
I think it qualifies for /r/bestof, but I definitely think it was longer than it needed to be. You could cut down the comment a lot and still get the point across. It sounded like he was very defensive about whether or not this happened straight from the get go.
Just a style of writting identifiable with each author.
The OP thought Holdens brother had been murdered by his father (something you might expect in a Palahniuk story) instead it's just a story about a whiny little over-entitled bitch (the Salinger thing) who doesn't know proper etiquette for elevator prostitutes
I agree. This is really interesting and entertaining.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:23:30 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You sound so incredibly sarcastic
SilasX ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:33:41 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The content is good, but the title overstated as usual. I would have preferred something more honest like "... changes the meaning of the rest of the book".
istara ยท 38 points ยท Posted at 14:30:33 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I had a similar thing with A Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovitch.
My copy (we were given copies at school, used by previous years) had the first page ripped out. So I found myself reading this book about someone called "Shukhov", wondering when the hell Ivan Denisovitch was going to show up.
Until, nearly at the end, I finally happened to see a classmate's copy. The first bloody sentence is "Ivan Denisovich Shukhov [took off his boots or something]".
Mystery solved, but I was a bit pissed off realising that "Ivan" wasn't now going to appear.
We need a subreddit dedicated to book lovers and tell each other to skip what pages so that it would become an entirely new book experience. Something along the lines /r/unexpectedbook
It's been about 10 years since I've read the book but I don't remember him being unreliable. There are parts where he doesn't go into as much detail as others but I've always viewed that as being something he didn't want to relive. I guess for some it can be seen as unreliable as the audience isn't filled in the entire way but I just view it as another way of telling a story. Imagine if Romeo and Juliet was told in a first person perspective. The entire book changes based on who is telling the story.
Yeah, but Mercutio was the only character I cared about...so we would get the best parts of the story.
Oshojabe ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:51:41 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Mercutio dies off-screen (after receiving a mortal wound on-screen), so you could play with that and have him actually survive and experience the remainder of the play in secret.
Or just make it the tragedy of Mercutio, where his loyalty to the blundering and idiotic Romeo leads to his downfall and death. Pox on the rest of the play!
Unreliable isn't just about leaving parts of the story out though. Yes, that can be a large part of it, but Holden was unreliable for a lot more reasons than that. His version of things is very clearly not the version "an adult" would have in the situation, or at least a more objective character, but he's so influenced by emotions and prejudices that it really adds to his entire point of view being unreliable, not just the parts that he leaves out of the story.
I read it once in high school, and Holden was instantly one of my favorite characters in any book I'd read. I read it again last year (I graduated 10 years ago) and it was completely different book, and had the same opinion of the first comment linked above ("what a whiny little asshole"). Not the Holden I remember.
Similar sorta thing happened to me when i accidentally watched the last episode of True Detective first, and skipped the the first one. Needless to say, i was confused as all hell.
I didn't realize my mistake until watching the last episode (for the second time, unknowingly) and thinking, "why are they spending the first 10 minutes of the last episode on a flashback to the first episode?"
This happened to me with Game of Thrones. I didn't watch the first episode, or maybe forgot what happened. I also had a hard time remembering all the faces and names.
So I had no idea incest was happening, until really really late into the show, or that the boy was crippled because he was thrown out a window.
Sometimes they'd zoom in on people's faces or frame things in a way where I know something of significance just happened, but I would have no real idea of what was going on.
This sort of happened to me when I started Mr Robot on episode 1 instead of episode 0. Like, it really just jumped into the action, and he kept talking about things he had told us before. I thought it was going to be a cool flashback heavy/confusing narrator or something, until I realized I just missed an episode.
Ha! I was going to mention this, because it's what got me, but i choose to blame myself. :)
Did you end up missing the first episode too?
jayjacks ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:42:16 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, I watched the finale first. At the end of the episode I was trying to imagine how the series climax could top the first episode. Then I slowly realized what happened. Still great, though. It actually made me appreciate it more. Like when you see Matthew Mconoughay in the hospital with the black eye - its his right (?) eye that's swollen shut - which reflects some narrative he gave earlier about some philosopher who talks about gazing into the infinite through your left eye, or what not. I'll look it up later if you want me to, but I'm on mobile now so it's difficult.
Grave of the Fireflies was like that for me. Apparently both the main characters were shown starving to death right at the start, but I guess I can't identify faces very well so the whole time I was rooting for them to make it and my girlfriend kept trying to convince me they already died, and it turned out she was right and the movie was shitty and depressing.
You know what's even sadder? Grave of the Fireflies is an autobiography by the boy. The only change to the story is that the boy also died, which in the author's own words, is "what should have happened".
Emotionally it's the anime equivalent of Requiem for a Dream.
websnarf ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:56:59 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, but in Requiem, the people sort of dig their own graves. In Graveyard, it's not their fault. They did nothing to deserve what happened, and they tried so hard to survive.
I didnt know And Then There Were None had an epilogue for like two months. I just closed the book after the The End.
Kalean ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 18:57:56 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Reminds me of my friend's dad. He went in to see Predator without knowing the premise, and missed the first few minutes with the predator reveal. So he gets in a little late, and is just watching this typical gung ho military action flick. Go America and all that. Then suddenly people just start fucking dying and crazy shit is coming out of the trees, and he has no more idea what's going on as they do. When Jesse Ventura goes ape with that minigun and the plasma cannon blows a hole in him, he's freaking out. To this day he says it was 10x better that way.
tl;dr - Watch predator without the opening scene, it's a military rambo movie that suddenly gets interrupted by horror sci fi from out of left field.
That does sound much better. I like watching films not even knowing what genre they are sometimes.
Kalean ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:14:09 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Being surprised is often nice in movies, but trailers spoil too much. Looking at BOTH recent terminator movies and their trailers that spoil the main plot twist.
Best trailer in recent years was the Guardians of the Galaxy lineup teaser trailer. Thoroughly introduce characters, movie is in space, marvel brand logo, boom, done.
Thank you, I know what I'm watching tonight when my kids fall asleep!
websnarf ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:59:22 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Someone ought to re-cut the film that way. I think I agree, the movie would probably be a lot better without the "give it away narrative".
EDIT: Perhaps someone should make a subreddit with recut movies. You could put all the Starwars prequels in there, this thing and ideas for cuts like predator without the opening scene.
Teaching a course about representations of the transatlantic slave trade and slavery in the new world, I decided to do my students a solid and require the cheapest possible edition of Huck Finn I could find.
I had never imagined that one would abridge such a relatively short and easy novel.
Moreover, it never occurred to me that, in abridging it, one might replace every use of the word slave with the word servant. And I'm pretty sure they also cut out every N word in the whole thing, too. Pretty much any part of the text that revealed what Twain was critiquing--the racism and classism that underlay the supposed charm of Southern culture--had been erased or sanitized.
I realized this when my desk copy arrived, way too late to change the order, but just in time to email the kids not to buy it.
I wish I hadn't thrown away that copy because it would be a comedy goldmine if it weren't so enraging.
Oh ffs. I get ZERO for reading comprehension. One - didn't realise Allie was a male. Two - never knew she/he was dead. I just thought that he missed her and that she was the only one who understood him. To a degree.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:12:08 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
/r/survivor would love to have you if you're ever interested in catching up on more of the show!
[deleted] ยท 57 points ยท Posted at 15:46:30 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I wonder if everyone who says Holden is nothing more than a "whiny asshole" would say that to the face of someone who suffers from debilitating depression.
[deleted] ยท 35 points ยท Posted at 17:47:27 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously. So many people say he's just a whiny rich brat but don't consider the traumatizing events that happened to him and the alienation he feels, both of which are pretty important in understanding the story
It's probably kind of a backlash against people who think everything he says is right and "cool." There are lots of whiny teenagers who see him as a role model, which is wrong (probably my favorite part of the book was when, in conjunction with a piano performance or something, he talks about how people always stupidly applaud for the wrong things, which is basically pre-emptively slamming his own fanbase.) So the natural response for lots of people is to swing to "No he's not! He's just a whiny teenager!" when really he's more complex than either of those - definitely not a role model but flawed for legit reasons.
Iohet ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:35:39 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Sounds like he's got a case of Affluenza
Oshojabe ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 16:54:31 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Not being entertained by a fictional person's life doesn't mean one lacks compassion for real people in similar situations.
[deleted] ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 17:24:36 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
But if that's what they honestly think about Holden's problems then I would imagine that deep down inside they would feel the same way if Holden were a real person.
Well, part of the problem is that you read that book as a teen... when your empathy isn't quite grown yet. I was a really well-adjusted kid with no concept of what the fuck was wrong with Holden; I just knew he bored me. I'm not even sure I understood depression as a chemical imbalance that needed treatment at the time, because I was maybe fourteen and just hadn't run into the concept yet.
I guess books like that were supposed to be the introduction to it, but it and Ordinary People just did not click with me at all.
rbcoolie ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:48:02 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They're all saying what's on their minds. It's only recently that depression has been accepted as a real mental illness, but it was more thrust upon people to accept it. Also I think it's now the "cool" thing to consider Holden a "whiny <insert curse word>". Like it's some sort of rite of passage from adolescence to adulthood to "realize" Holden's got it good in life and should be happy.
Ghost29 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:07:51 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think it's so much cool as it's a changing of the times. In high school during the early 2000s, we all pretty much thought he was a whiny little privileged prat.
It's pretty heavily implied that he was molested as well. I thought the book was great and anyone who complains about having to read a couple hundred pages is ridiculous anyway
CurReign ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:03:09 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's pretty heavily implied that he was molested as well.
How so?
ItsOnDVR ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:45:00 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's been a few years since I read it, but I think it's more that Holden thinks his teacher that he stays with is coming on to him.
Whether or not he was is almost unimportant. What is important is that Holden feels incapable of trusting adults.
RudeHero ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:36:03 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
sometimes depressed people hate themselves, and they see the shittier parts of themselves in him.
Imadoc91 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:52:50 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Hi, former sufferer of debilitating depression. Failed 4 classes because I didnt turn in homework for an entire semester only ever left bed to go to work. Still think he is a whiny asshole. Depression is a weird thing, you know youre depressed and you know youre fucking up. You just cant be arsed to care
Yeah, the backlash toward him always kind of confused me. Losing a close family member at that age can be (and often is) extremely traumatizing. Why would you expect him to be super well-adjusted?
I know my mind would be all sorts of fucked if my sister died.
When people call him a whiny asshole they mean it's not a good book and isn't really as deep or amazing as is claimed. Not that they treat real people the same as fictional characters.
This comment will never see the light of day but Im posting anyways.
SPOILERS FOR The Velveteen Rabbit
When I read The Velveteen Rabbit as a small child, I stopped reading it because I was crying so hard. They threw all the child's stuff in a pile to burn because he had a contagious disease or whatever. His favorite toy rabbit was thrown on the pile. The pile was set on fire.
I put the book down and for years I held a grudge against that book for ruining my childhood.
One day in mt late 20's my sister said, "Oh, how much I loved The Velveteen Rabbit."
I replid, "UGH. That fucking book. I hate that fucking book."
My sister looked shocked and said, "Really?? Why?"
"Because they burned his fucking stuffed rabbit, that's why. Assholes."
My sister stared blankly at me for a long while.
"Did you read the whole thing?"
"NO. I was crying so fucking hard, I put it down. What a horrible fucking book."
"Freakin_Geek....... A fairy comes along and turns his stuffed rabbit into a real rabbit and it hopped away."
I stared blankly at her. "What...?"
"Freakin_Geek, what other books have you stopped reading?"
Haha, are you kidding me? I never finished that book either, for the same reason.
I loved my stuffed animals so much that I would switch out which ones got to sit on the bed every night so that none of them would feel left out. The thought of them being taken away and burned alive was terrifying to me.
I actually like his version better. I always hated Holden Caulfield. If his parents had killed Allie, I think the book would've been so much better. More than just something for angsty teenagers to relate to.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 16:45:12 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not really sure angsty teenagers have related to the book for a couple decades at least. I was an angsty teenager when I read it, and I really didn't relate.
You probably spent most of the time reading it feeling superior to him then. Either way, if Allie had been killed by his father, I think it really makes Holden come out in the end as a more interesting character who is memorable for different and better reasons.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:52:44 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know why you would think I felt that way. Otherwise, I agree
They seem to be the two most popular opinions. I didn't mean it in a bad way. He's a whiny little bitch.
Lavagasm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:49:03 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Personally, when I read the book as a preteen, I disliked Holden and the book as a whole. He was unrelatable in any way, his narration was boring and obnoxiously terrible. The writing and characters felt far too dated for my liking.
When I read it again as a teenager I thought to myself; "What the fuck is so fucking great about this stupid fucking book that I need to read it a SECOND time?"
Then when I had to read it again in college I dropped the course and took the same class from a different professor the next semester. There has to be another book written in the last 60+ years that would be more enjoyable and actually thought provoking than that rubbish.
Edit: I forgot that I wanted to mention that I never felt superior to Holden.
I've never seen it as something with much new philosophy to offer the world, but it is a very culturally important book. It comes up a lot (relatively speaking), so I can see why teachers feel it's an important book to have read. I mean, we're talking about it now right?
Lavagasm ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:28:27 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
I've personally never thought of the book other than when somebody I don't know brings it up. The only reason it's still brought up is because it's been on arbitrary school reading lists since the 70s/80s.
Catcher in the Rye has never provoked thought or discussion out of interest for me, but rather disinterest and hostility. The fact that it garners attention and continues to me a mainstay on school reading lists today bothers me.
The book, in my opinion, stood the test of time only through autocratic crotchety curriculum creators (say that three times fast). The teachers and school boards that assign this book are the same ones that are out of touch with reality as it is today.
I would rather my wife tell me she doesn't love me anymore, than tell me she likes Catcher in the Rye. At least we could get divorced and move on with our lives in the first scenario. The thought of someone I know enjoying that book would make me question my very existence and life choices. It is that bad of a book for me.
Edit: Spelling.
Edit 2: Downvote me all you want invisible internet points mean nothing.
Here's a tidbit - Mark David Chapman bought Catcher in the Rye and then shot John Lennon on the same day. Cooincidence?
Here's a tidbit - Mark David Chapman bought Catcher in the Rye and then shot John Lennon on the same day. Cooincidence?
This is what I meant by culturally important. Thanks to those teachers who made you read it (without having known you'd been put through it multiple times), you were ready to enter the conversation with a well formed opinion of the book instead of being left wondering why.
Lavagasm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:52:03 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I just really dislike the book, a lot. Professors, teachers and school boards have the right to choose whether they want to assign Catcher in the Rye to their curriculum.
I learned the Mark David Chapman thing from a John Lennon documentary though. Had I not dropped that course in college I might have learned that fact from the internet or the teacher, so your point is well noted .
xanju ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:52:29 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
When I was an angsty teenager I didn't like to read.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:06:06 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe that was all it was :P
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:51:41 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
More than just something for angsty teenagers to relate to
What is up with so many people not empathizing (not even sympathizing) with Holden, when the clues to his whininess are all there? Did people just start reading with the preconceived notion that they should hate Holden because "lol he's a bitch?" Did Salinger make Holden too off-putting?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:18:42 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know. It's really just an opinion I see on reddit, I don't think I've ever heard people bitch so hard and have such negative feelings about him in real life.
It leaves you with an overall bad impression of Holden. That's all I'm saying. It's popular among angry teens and narcissistic serial killers for a reason.
Also, I'm sure you're super smart and all, but you can't interpret art incorrectly. That's kind of the point.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:28:20 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I read it when I was a teen and I neither got the impression that he was supposed to be some relatable angsty guy or just some whiny kid with a cushioned life. I thought it was clear he was deeply troubled and a bit insane, and the ending confirms it. It just baffles me that he's labeled as such by reddit and widely persecuted for the former.
I wonder If I can delete those two pages, and add, "just like he did Allie" to the end of the last "dad's going to kill you" line from his sister and sell it.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I despised the book when I read it in my junior year English class several years ago (and I still do), but this might have actually made it a lot more interesting.
It's sort of a big step to go from "he forgot because he's forgetful" to "he forgot because he was traumatized so he forgot he didn't tell us but still remembers the event even though that doesn't really make sense"
Or from "his little sister exaggerated" to "his sister witnessed the murder of her brother and casually brings it up even though Holden doesn't really care"
The first time I read The Two Towers I misread the part where Treebeard was explaining the weaknesses of the Ents. Somehow I read it as things they are resistant to so I thought they were super OP tree giants immune to fire like that stone tree Pokemon. Second time I read it they weren't so OP :/
chknqwn ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 17:20:21 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
When I read the last Harry Potter book, during the Battle of Hogwarts, I was camping and excited/anxious to get to the end, so I was rushing a little and accidentally skipped the page where Fred died. Percy came back, there was an explosion, and then Harry had to go find Voldy and Snape. So I was shocked when Harry goes into the Great Hall and the Weasleys are all crying over Fred's body, and annoyed. Like really, JKR killed a WEASLEY off-screen??? It just seemed like such an amateur thing to do.
Luckily I reread it pretty soon after, and no pages stuck together that time. Heh.
Similarly I didn't realize Lupin/Tonks died until the end, after the battle, where they list everyone who's dead and the "fifty others." Although they died off-page anyway so I guess it wasn't that big a difference.
Holy hell. I wish I could have that kind of accident with a book. That sounds like an amazing experience.
crt134 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:08:31 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Back in the 90s my dad rented Braveheart. At the time it came on 2 vhs tapes. Well, he accidentally watched the 2nd tape first. He finally realized his mistake when Mel Gibson died and he couldn't fathom how there was still another hour and a half left in the movie
Something similar happened to me with Crime and Punishment. I had no real idea what the book was really about, and I accidentally skipped the chapter where he murders the people. So he's just kind of freaking out about something he did and I had no clue what was going on. Thinking he must be going insane or something.
You know, one could still make the argument that Allie was murdered. Holden's an unreliable narrator with obvious mental instabilities, remember? Perhaps the only way he could cope with Allie's death was by convincing himself that he died of illness. Mentally altering events as a way to cope with grief is a pretty common trope in fiction, if not real life.
Yeah, a similar thing happened to me when reading The Sun Also Rises. I bought a used copy on Amazon, and it had huge portions clipped out of it, like some dumbass kid was too lazy to re-type the bits for a school project or something.
Basically, I missed a lot of things. Like the main character's impotence. That sets the stage for the tension with his love interest for the whole book, and here I was thinking she was just some aloof asshole who couldn't be tied down.
But yeah, he couldn't get it up.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:26:04 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
In all honesty it's super easy to miss that, even if you are a decent reader and have the whole text.
I can't remember what else I was missing (obviously, how could I) but probably every 3rd chapter there were a few paragraphs missing, usually the first few of the chapter.
takatori ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:12:51 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The title didn't clue you in that the book was about things getting up?
Reminds me of the story someone told of missing the opening scene of the movie Predator and being shocked when the badass soldiers in the jungle got torn apart by an alien.
It wouldn't really spoil much after you get like 50 pages in (whenever he writes about a glove) - only that he interacts with a certain character near the end - but it would probably be more entertaining after you've read the book.
I had a similar although less dramatic experience with Blood and Iron. The book has a ton of references to Tam Lin strewn throughout it, and the characters have a habit of talking in circles around things instead of saying them outright.
I spent my entire first read confused about the relationships between half the characters because they'd be implied through questions like, "Is he going to wait for you at the crossroads?" which at the time didn't mean much to me, but if you know Tam Lin, is a pretty clear reference to the two characters being lovers.
This is why I have an automatic habit of checking the page number every time I turn the page. It really bothers me when I read a manga that doesn't have page numbers.
I watched Breakfast at Tiffany's, having previously seen the Seinfeld episode about it. I was waiting the whole movie for the twist where Fred was revealed as gay.
My parents told me they watched Edge of Tomorrow at the movie theatre. I asked my dad what he thought of it, and he said, "Eh, it seemed like a typical Tom Cruise movie where there's lots of explosions, he beats the aliens, and saves the day. There wasn't any tension to it."
It turns out they only watched the last half of it because they walked in after their original movie had ended. They managed to miss the whole premise of the movie.
Danakona ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:12:07 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Iโm a little late to this party, but I had a very very similar experience with Gone Girl. I messed up opening the book on my kindle and basically started two thirds into the book. On the chapter where she comes home and heโs leans into her ear and says โyou bitchโ or something like that. So I think this whole story is being told from the perspective of the two of them talking in the shower and then later him talking to the detective. Thereโs like zero character development, so Iโm basically trying to figure out who these people are and actually enjoying that they arenโt spoon feeding me anything. Likewise, thereโs like zero plot development, they just say things like โwell what about the shedโ, โwhat about the purseโ with no explanation. Seeing as this is a mystery book this all seems pretty normal and Iโm getting really excited for a big reveal at the end tying all these little pieces togetherโฆand then it just endsโฆ.
It actually would have made a pretty good short story with a slightly better ending. I tried to re-read it from the beginning, gave up after like 20 minutes of being upset and just watched the movie instead.
Then, I read the title of this reddit post. From its wording, I expected that OP was reading a compilation of high-school curriculum novels, and when he approached the end of Catcher in the Rye, turned two pages at the most important part of the book- the part where the book ends(!)- and then unwittingly proceeds to read an entirely different book (literally).
i dont even remember the parts about holdens little bro dieing , just that he had a gross roomate
takatori ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:11:33 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
In watching LOST, I missed the episode that revealed that the resurrected Locke was actually the Man in Black.
I thought it really was Locke, with some newfound confidence and connection to the island after coming back to life.
It wasn't until years later when I posted in /r/lost talking about the weird change in his character and how his change didn't seem to fit the ready of the tone and themes of the series.
So I saw the final battle as between Jack and Locke: reason vs faith, rather than light vs dark.
This reminds me of when I rented the Orphanage by Guillermo del Toro. Except i thought it was Orphan with the creepy little girl.
So here I am waiting for the little girl to appear and the movie to become all wacky or whatever. Sorrow, misery, anguish, confusion and the movie ended. I felt so hollow. That's the wrong movie to expect a wacky lighthearted scary movie from.
fillydashon ยท 851 points ยท Posted at 13:58:25 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Reminds me of when I read The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho. Throughout the entire book, he refers to the protagonist as simply 'the boy'. I read the whole book in one sitting, and thought "Wow, what an interesting and meaningful choice to never give the protagonist a name."
Then I tried discussing the book with someone in class, and discovered I somehow overlooked the very first sentence in the book.
"The boy's name was Santiago."
Chemical_Cutthroat ยท 285 points ยท Posted at 15:39:18 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Holy shit.
I never knew he had a name.
Holy shit.
[deleted] ยท 130 points ยท Posted at 15:08:21 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
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Cairneann ยท 239 points ยท Posted at 15:29:25 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
He's very well known all over the world, but his writing is mostly ridiculed for trying to sound deep while being devoid of actual thought. In Poland he's become something of a model for that kind of pseudo-philosophical nonsense.
There are actually Facebook pages named like "Paulo Coelho quotes for today" that post his photos with some nonsensical phrases written on them, for example "The clothes iron is hot when plugged" or (and this is my favourite) "You can't dig up horseradish with your dick".
[deleted] ยท 72 points ยท Posted at 15:35:38 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
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[deleted] ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 18:00:07 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
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pizzahedron ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:32:52 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
if you love something/one enough, and put in all the work, effort, and thought to finally achieve it, you can then thank god?
Iohet ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 17:38:05 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That's because Poland has the only writer they'll ever need in Andrzej Sapkowski
koredozo ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 17:58:19 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Stanislaw Lem managed to be profoundly philosophical even while writing lighthearted short stories about robots and spacemen. They know how to do that kind of thing.
wyratt14 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:18:18 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That fucking guys name. God damn. It is such a pain to find his books because I can never remember his name, and if I do I can never pronounce it.
pizzahedron ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:34:30 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
sapkowski.
imagine a cow skiing down a mountain. he pauses for a moment to lick some sap from a tree.
Alaira314 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:08:04 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
What about Andrzej, though? My mouth wants to say "Andre" but I'm not confident about that at all.
willplaylp ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:26:14 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's pronounced very similarly to "Andre" but I've heard others pronounce it similarly to "Andrew." You can look up pronunciation guides for stuff like that. It's the ONLY way I had to figure out how to pronounce his first name. Damn Poland and their interesting writers and their hard-to-understand-language.
It basically sounds like a middle ground between Andre and Andrew but with a "z" sound.
EDIT: FUCK IT. Here's a link.
http://www.pronouncenames.com/pronounce/andrzej
Alaira314 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:31:00 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Okay, that's very helpful! Thank you. I can now recommend his books without sounding like an idiot with a mouth full of marbles, or giving the vaguest recommendation ever("There's this awesome book by this guy, he's Polish so I can't say his name, but it's really cool and you should read it!").
willplaylp ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:45:52 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
No problem!
I enjoyed the first several books but I really wonder how much of The Witcher just doesn't translate well. I've read that the reason he's so beloved is because he has a distinctly Polish approach to his work. It's layered with word play, twists on familiar archetypes, and really in-depth Slavic mythology that is more familiar with his initial audience. I felt like it was interesting but not quite as mind-blowing as I'd hoped. And the fan translations of the last two novels could have been way better.
I'd love to know if it's just a translation that didn't convey that as well or if I'm just not familiar with the works and source material that he's drawing from. I also made the mistake of pretty much reading the first two short stories a year before I read all five novels in about a month.
pizzahedron ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:18:59 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
i looked it up. it's more like: and-jey or and-zhey.
there's a link to listen and some IPA here: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Andrzej
teuast ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 18:07:13 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
THANK YOU. I had to read him for my freshman year English class and I fucking hated him, even though no one else seemed to. I feel vindicated.
vonBoomslang ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:23:48 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The Alchemist is (or at least was) also part of required middle school reading here.
EpicScizor ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:00:36 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Still is in Norway, if you're from here.
Aristillius ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:46:50 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Really? From Norway too and very disappointed with curriculum choices.
Master_Faz ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:45:18 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
My philosophy teacher says the same about his.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:15:57 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Reminds me of the Deepak Chopra quote generator.
asshair ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:31:11 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
What's the second one say? Something about hearing?
Cairneann ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:52:15 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
No, it's actually "You can't dig up horseradish with your dick".
Master_Faz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:45:16 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
My philosophy teacher says the same about his.
roryarthurwilliams ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 15:20:56 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
"[The Alchemist] is an international bestseller. According to AFP, it has sold more than 65 million copies in 56 different languages, becoming one of the best-selling books in history and setting the Guinness World Record for most translated book by a living author."
It is considered a classic in English-speaking countries and is consistently placed in the likes of "100 books to read before you die" lists, and surveys ranking the best books of all time. Personally I didn't find it very good.
[deleted] ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 15:31:33 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
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[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 18:03:41 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
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zomgimonreddit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:17:47 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Like 50 Shades of Gray, or the Bible.
adarkfable ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 21:13:49 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
gosh, you were probably the smartest 12yr old of them all. next, tell us when you first started reading adult novels. let me guess, before anybody else you knew?
Iohet ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:39:54 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Strange that I've never heard of this book and I am an avid reader.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:04:53 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
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shartweekondvd ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:36:39 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Ehhh I would argue that it's worth the time just because it's so short and simply written. And if you read it, you at least can have an opinion on it (I didn't like it either....overrated).
pudgylumpkins ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:14:07 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
My sister gifted it to me for Christmas, otherwise I would have never read it. It isn't the worst book I've ever read but it really took some effort to finish.
rctsolid ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:17:59 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think its really meant to be some profound amazing book in reality. What it is, is an average philosophical novel for the average reader. Its average but that's OK I feel.
threefoxes ยท 60 points ยท Posted at 15:10:19 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The Alchemist was pretty big in the US, especially as lit curriculum for high school students.
swansareroadkil ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 17:11:56 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
A book store employee recommended it to me. I hated it
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:16:06 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's actually taught in schools now? That's...disappointing, to say the least.
LordofShit ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:16:04 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Which is stupid, because people who read that book either wanted to read it and got something out of it, or heard a stupid story about how a kid ran around Africa for a few chapters. Anyone who didnt want to read that book didnt get anything out of it.
fillydashon ยท 44 points ยท Posted at 15:36:55 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I would suggest that's true of most books.
Off the top of my head, in high school we read The Kite Runner and I hated it. It was a whiny rich kid whining for however-many pages, and I got nothing out of it because I didn't want to read it.
Or Heart of Darkness; I literally couldn't stay awake while trying to read it in high school, so I read Dante's Inferno instead, and relied heavily on allusions to Inferno to complete my essay on Heart of Darkness.
velocityreptar ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 15:42:13 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
My darkest secret from high school is I once got an A on an essay about fahrenheit 451 but I never read it.
fillydashon ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 15:56:58 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I think one of my favorite (and simultaneously least favorite) memories of high school English was getting an A on a Kite Runner essay that I specifically wrote to mock the teacher. She was friggen crazy about metaphors, so I wrote a five paragraph essay that averaged something like seven metaphors per paragraph.
It was a ridiculous and terrible essay that I got top marks for.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:06:10 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I did this for SAT and got a much better score than the 2 times i took it seriously.
emptynothing ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:47:19 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Surely you didn't get better for the English portion for it than the two times you took it seriously.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:59:33 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
So much for all those years of high school writing courses. All you need to do is take the SAT 3 times and your writing skills will go from 3rd grade level to broke college student level in just a few months!
Upthrust ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 16:35:14 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I had a similar situation: we had to read The Great Gatsby and Pride and Prejudice over the summer, and we'd be tested on them with in-class essays when school started again. I ended up really liking The Great Gatsby, and was done with it just a couple days into summer vacation. On the other hand, I knew I didn't want to read Pride and Prejudice because I was a boy in high school, and romance was for dummies.
I read the first section of the Cliffnotes for Pride and Prejudice and got an A on my essay. I reviewed The Great Gatsby too, but I figured that if I liked it I probably knew it well enough. I mixed up Tom's and George's names on my essay on The Great Gatsby and got a D+.
gazbomb ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:12:04 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If you still haven't read P and P do yourself a favour. As a grown man I can tell you: it's fucking delightful.
ThatGreenSolGirl ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:38:28 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Same but mine was The Andromeda Strain and I watched like 30 minutes of the movie. I filled in the blanks with nonsense because I figured it's sci fi and anything would sound fine. Got a perfect score. LPT, always pick the least popular book choice, chances are even the teacher never read it.
pizzahedron ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:38:32 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
i got an A on a term paper on three or four books by jane austen. i relied on movies and sparknotes. i fucking hate female victorian writers writing about women. (female feminist here.)
Cartesian_Duelist ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:04:00 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
When I was in high school, my dumb rebellious streak shined through and I never read a book assigned. Not once. Not Hamlet, not Romeo and Juliet. Not Catcher. Not King Lear. Not as you like it. I grew up just around the time where the site Sparknotes was up-and-coming, and given how standard my reading curriculum was, I just read the notes on all of them.
The only two books I ever read for high school were not assigned, and both were plays. The first was Faust, and the second was The Iceman Cometh. It was my FSE/ISU, and the assignment was to write an essay comparing and contrasting the themes of both. I struck lucky given that the two have many overarching themes about the pursuit of happiness. Ironically, this was when I was accused of plagarism, as my English teacher thought that no 17-year-old could know the term "Neo-Anarchist", a term I actually used incorrectly given that the Iceman Cometh takes place in the early 20th century.
I also made up a book once, combining plot elements from the then-TV Show "Whitefang" and Hatchet.
Copperhead61 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:10:35 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You probably did well on the writing section of the SAT.
emptynothing ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:49:10 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Ohh man, you must be brilliant, judging by the way you talk about yourself.
delta_baryon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:05:30 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The prose in Fahrenheit 451 drove me nuts. It was so dense. I wanted to slap the author and say "There's nothing wrong with writing 'Then he picked up the spade' from time to time." Trying to read something so heavy with description actually becomes exhausting and impedes comprehension after a while. You should ration that stuff.
TuffLuffJimmy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:37:00 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well it's a pretty short book, something that could be read in a couple hours.
That's a pretty sad way to think about any book. "It isn't what I wanted to read so I got nothing out of it!"
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:55:01 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I think he's considered a pretty mediocre writer in a lot of places. It's just that in all of those same places, a lot of people love him as well.
lightsecond ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:18:08 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
He has many fans in India. The Alchemist was especially popular.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:07:03 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
zomgimonreddit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:22:33 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I thought the same thing, and my best guess is that if it's the first book you've read that has that kind of a message (or the first book you've read in a very long time) it may feel that profound.
EatMyBaconAndLikeIt ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:32:25 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
He was very popular among the backpacker circuit in south east Asia in 2007. That's where I picked up the book.
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 16:23:14 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Paulo Coelho is a charlatan and it enrages me he gets so much attention outside Brazil.
"Oh, you are from Brazil? I was just reading..."
Fuck. Like we don't have enough stereotypes.
arup02 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:58:11 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I, too, get enraged when I encounter someone more successful than me.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:28:12 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Just like I would not trade my respectful profession to be a televangelist, no matter how much money and attention it would get me, I would not trade it to be a con pseudo-intellectual crap bag either.
It is a matter of moral integrity. Some people have it.
TrapandRelease ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:45:18 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
What makes a fiction writer a charlatan in this context?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:10:23 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
He writes pseudo-intellectual, "inspirational" self help stuff disguised as literature. He is basically Oprah pretending to be Sartre.
The fact he is required reading in some schools in the US is a joke.
TrapandRelease ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:46:35 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Your point seems ideologically driven. There are other ways to think and feel outside of the socially conscribed and acceptable ways.
I haven't read it fully; I found his writing to be pretty bad, but I know of his message and I see no harm in making this piece of literature required reading. It's just a philosophical perspective written as a story.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:15:19 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You see no harm on making a poorly written book being required literature? Oh well, then, I think Fifty Shades of Grade should fit right in. It would certainly increase reading levels among horny teenagers.
TrapandRelease ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:43:01 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Don't be absurd. What I feel should be in the required literature is a book based on ideas and philosophy that is different than usual. Despite how it's written it still conveys a different ideology, and one that isn't very common in required reading. I think most of the issues with his writing come from the translation; I began to read the English version and just thought the structure and cadence was a bit simple with little imagery; I'm sure it's lovely in its original language, perhaps a bit simple but those ideas are worth hearing, especially at a that time of life when its required.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:49:05 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
No, it is terrible in its original language. I read it in the original language. And ABBA has a more profound philosophy than this book.
To be more specific: His "philosophy" is the cheap kind found on calendars and self help books. His stories have no development and are just weak. That being said, The Alquimist is the best, compared to the very bad that is the rest of his work.
TrapandRelease ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:52:59 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Fair enough, its still subjective to a point but considering you are really against the philosophies in the book, it would definitely explain your aversion.
It is what it is.
fillydashon ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:31:45 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I liked it well enough. It was an interesting story with an interesting voice, but I didn't get super in-depth on the symbolism or anything.
jlitwinka ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:33:01 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I've only read The Alchemist in Middle School, but I really enjoyed it. It was a nice, short story that managed to keep my hyperactive mind's interest.
xvvhiteboy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:06:45 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I can also confirm I had to read the book for my US high school curriculum.
DocJawbone ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:15:41 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I've only read The Valkyries and to be honest - that was enough. I like magic realism but I dunno, it just didn't do it for me.
TobyTrash ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:45:10 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I thought the alchemist was a decent book. Readv 7 minutes (or 11 or whatever) and felt he's like a giant asshole trying to "pretty woman" sex trafficking.
After that I didn't really care for him.
He is pretty well liked here in Norway. Sells well, but I hope the serious reviews portray him as pulp fiction philosophy
fav ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:53:51 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
One word: "deepities."
theorymeltfool ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:12:40 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I thought that book was absolute shit. No idea why my book club picked it, it's written for 10 year olds.
porkchameleon ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:37:27 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You should watch Layer Cake.
MAY_BE_TOM_BRADY ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:35:01 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Except we never actually hear X's name
EpicScizor ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:59:01 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
What the hell. I apparently skipped that sentence. And I read the the book through in a day. Twice. And only NOW do I realise it. What the actual hell.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:14:32 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I had a similar experience with The Red Badge of Courage. I thought the main character's name was simply "the youth," but apparently he has an actual name: Henry Fleming.
Captluck ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:09:25 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I've found that the brain needs to warm up like you would do with sports. So I like to read for 5-10 from something random first.
Stcloudy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:12:58 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You can read The Road and have a go at the adventures of a boy and his father (never named for real)
BrokeInMichigan ยท 119 points ยท Posted at 10:23:19 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The guy finally finishes The Stand: "Really glad they beat the Walkin' Dude, but when the hell is King going to explain what killed all those people at the start?"
Phrygue ยท 44 points ยท Posted at 14:11:09 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Captain Trips killed them. Apparently he was a murderous pirate.
EndoplasmicPanda ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:49:46 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Sounds like an edgy 4chan user.
Yep, definitely edgy 4chan user.
KorrectingYou ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:57:56 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's all allegory. He actually just got them all hooked on LSD and led them around the country touring with his band.
DocJawbone ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 16:17:11 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The first act was the best part of that book IMHO.
ColonelRuffhouse ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:06:40 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Agreed. Third act is still great, but definitely the weakest.
Viscant ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 17:18:45 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
There's a reason for that. Stephen King got the worst case of writer's block he's ever had right around the time they got to Boulder. He wrote himself into a corner, had no idea how to finish the story and almost trunked it.
He put it aside for awhile then decided "screw it, I'll blow some stuff up" and finished the book from there. When he started writing, Nick was supposed to be the main character of the book. You can still see traces of that if you go back and read it again knowing that he didn't want the book to end like it does originally.
If it sounds like 2 separate books written by 2 separate guys, that's because it pretty much is.
Youthsonic ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 18:31:18 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
King almost always fucks up his endings.
I say that with as much love as possible, as someone who has read nearly everything he's put out
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:33:24 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Agreed.
It's also why I think that 11/22/63 is one of this best books he's written for a very long time. Nailed the ending on that one.
essbeck ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:05:32 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I must have been during the same time he invented his alter pen name Richard Bachman.
Books like "Desperation" he mirrored writing it in Richard Bachmans style that got the name "Regulators".
I_cant_speel ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:02:50 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I read that book years ago. What was it that killed everyone?
ComradeZooey ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 15:16:41 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
A weaponized virus is accidentally released and kills 99% of humanity.
runs-with-scissors ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:04:52 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
If only the gas tanks had blown up...
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:25:33 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That could have been me. Its taken me about 2-3 years to finish that story. I read about halfway, and then put it down for a year after getting busy with school/work. I picked it up again a year later, restarted it and got a little further than where I left off the previous time, got busy again... Finally finished it this summer while traveling and it was definitely worth the read, but I feel like I could have missed an important detail or two.
Smirth ยท 173 points ยท Posted at 16:51:44 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I watched Schindlers list for the first time without noticing it was a two DVD set, and was treated to a relatively upbeat short film about Germany losing the war while a factory owner and his Jewish staff waited it out while producing faulty armaments.
I couldn't understand why everyone gave it so much credit and why it was not as horrifying or even long as I had heard. Then I found DVD 1.
[deleted] ยท 53 points ยท Posted at 19:43:42 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
"You made out during Schindler's list???"
"We only saw DVD number 2!! I didn't see the big deal!"
Pi-Guy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:34:31 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
No lie, I got a blowjob during that movie in high school
anincompoop25 ยท 1055 points ยท Posted at 09:30:36 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
what a good /r/bestof post actually. Not a comment related to the post its in at all, so its not like it belongs in the sub. ANd its obviously not made up, and is a great and interest comment. Good catch.
edit: omg I can't believe this is my top comment, rip my inbox youguise xD
Gumstead ยท 158 points ยท Posted at 14:46:21 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Dont worry, there's still someone below questioning why its in bestof..
Khiva ยท 350 points ยท Posted at 14:52:35 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
/r/bestof should only be for one-sided political rants that include key phrases like "/u/fartmuncher DESTROYS arguments against basic income" or "Redditor questions whether Bernie Sanders can actually win. /u/13AndEdgy arrives with facts."
Neaan ยท 62 points ยท Posted at 15:00:51 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I was hoping 13AndEdgy was an actual redditor... :(
Baltorussian ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 15:51:00 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Is now! redditor for 35 minutes
Seems like someone set it up 14 minutes after you posted.
HuntBoston1508 ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 18:22:53 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Tomorrow: "/u/13AndEdgy arrives with the facts!"
JBrad0322 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:36:49 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
"Someone wished /u/13AndEdgy was a user. /u/13AndEdgy creates an account and posts in the thread!"
Ansoni ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:11:42 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm just glad /u/fartmuncher isn't.
Gumstead ยท 48 points ยท Posted at 15:09:51 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Ahh, I see you come here often
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 16:02:43 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
PavementBlues ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:00:58 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Also celebrities doing normal people things.
velawesomeraptors ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:13:35 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's more for any and all posts longer than two paragraphs, regardless of accuracy. Especially if big words are used that sound smart.
justin_tino ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 16:04:33 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Meh, who cares. One man's /r/bestof is another man's /r/shitpost. Not everyone will think the same about a particular thing. If you like it, post it, up vote it, share it.
statist_steve ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 15:43:03 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well, opinions are like assholes: we're all one. I think I got that right.
tim466 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:49:58 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
bellow?
Gumstead ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:52:39 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I think you forgot to encrypt your comment
Groomper ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 16:15:46 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
I think it qualifies for /r/bestof, but I definitely think it was longer than it needed to be. You could cut down the comment a lot and still get the point across. It sounded like he was very defensive about whether or not this happened straight from the get go.
Edit: Why did I get downvoted for expressing an opinion respectively?
lost_in_thesauce ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 17:17:44 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Like this?
TheMisterFlux ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 16:41:35 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
..... in the rye?
SantaMonsanto ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 17:57:43 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
not as funny as "You wanted Chuck Palahniuk but you got J.D. Salinger"
DabuSurvivor ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:41:40 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
And all I needed was the bad pussy.
Sergnb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:28:36 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
haha i totally got that reference.
I need to read more
SantaMonsanto ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:22:32 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Just a style of writting identifiable with each author.
The OP thought Holdens brother had been murdered by his father (something you might expect in a Palahniuk story) instead it's just a story about a whiny little over-entitled bitch (the Salinger thing) who doesn't know proper etiquette for elevator prostitutes
Miles_Prowess ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:56:31 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, lately most of them have been garbage.
DocJawbone ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:14:28 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I agree. This is really interesting and entertaining.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:23:30 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You sound so incredibly sarcastic
SilasX ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:33:41 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The content is good, but the title overstated as usual. I would have preferred something more honest like "... changes the meaning of the rest of the book".
istara ยท 38 points ยท Posted at 14:30:33 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I had a similar thing with A Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovitch.
My copy (we were given copies at school, used by previous years) had the first page ripped out. So I found myself reading this book about someone called "Shukhov", wondering when the hell Ivan Denisovitch was going to show up.
Until, nearly at the end, I finally happened to see a classmate's copy. The first bloody sentence is "Ivan Denisovich Shukhov [took off his boots or something]".
Mystery solved, but I was a bit pissed off realising that "Ivan" wasn't now going to appear.
radarthreat ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:32:36 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That book made me very hungry
royalobi ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 16:23:28 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Don't eat book. Unless starving in gulag. Then eat book ok.
BasilTarragon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:54:23 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
But what are you going to roll your cigarettes with?
AREYOUFUCKING_SORRY ยท 236 points ยท Posted at 06:48:37 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
We need a subreddit dedicated to book lovers and tell each other to skip what pages so that it would become an entirely new book experience. Something along the lines /r/unexpectedbook
franksaxx ยท 74 points ยท Posted at 11:32:41 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Are all editions of books printed the same though? I would have one edition would have slightly different page counts based on print size and whatnot
TheOtherSomeOtherGuy ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 14:36:24 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Using the chapters and paragraph numbers would probably be the simplest and most precise way to identify passages to skip
dipique ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:30:48 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Or use the same edition of the book.
sioux612 ยท 34 points ยท Posted at 13:59:02 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
As long as the plot isn't changed you could still say "skip chapter x", "skip x pages after you read sentence y"
bc2zb ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 14:30:59 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
you could probably do something via ebooks.
Alikont ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 18:22:39 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It will be like fan cuts of movies, but with books.
Zachpeace15 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 21:47:21 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
No it needs an askreddit thread. A sub for these stories would be dead in a few days.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:03:09 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
First post: Skip the Snape chapter of Deathly Hallows.
lecherous_hump ยท 57 points ยท Posted at 07:28:29 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That's pretty epic. I just reread it this year so it's fresh in my mind and I know exactly the parts he's talking about too.
๐๏ธ AintNothinbutaGFring ยท 123 points ยท Posted at 10:33:47 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I lost it when (s)he started recounting how their English teacher had warned them Holden was an unreliable narrator.
warriormonkey03 ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 13:55:05 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's been about 10 years since I've read the book but I don't remember him being unreliable. There are parts where he doesn't go into as much detail as others but I've always viewed that as being something he didn't want to relive. I guess for some it can be seen as unreliable as the audience isn't filled in the entire way but I just view it as another way of telling a story. Imagine if Romeo and Juliet was told in a first person perspective. The entire book changes based on who is telling the story.
fillydashon ยท 41 points ยท Posted at 14:49:53 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
A first person retelling of Romeo and Juliet from Mercutio's perspective would be great.
BioBen9250 ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 15:11:18 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
But then we wouldn't get much of the story.
BigBadMrBitches ยท 47 points ยท Posted at 15:38:36 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
"Went to a party to cheer up my friend and now I'm laying on the ground trying to think of a funny line to say before I die."
pizzasoup ยท 49 points ยท Posted at 15:57:32 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
"Ask for me tomorrow, and you shall find me a grave man. Hahaha hurk-blrgh oh god that's blood"
warriormonkey03 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:57:00 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
"I got it. Et tu Brute? Wait, no, that's someone else's last line. Hmmm what to say what to say."
dexterpine ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 16:29:49 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Mmm whatcha say?
warriormonkey03 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:39:48 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I now wish that in any and all movie remakes of Romeo and Juliet this song plays for his final moments.
fillydashon ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:38:53 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, but Mercutio was the only character I cared about...so we would get the best parts of the story.
Oshojabe ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:51:41 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Mercutio dies off-screen (after receiving a mortal wound on-screen), so you could play with that and have him actually survive and experience the remainder of the play in secret.
thedeliriousdonut ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:47:50 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Oh man this is some Rosencrantz and Guildenstern material.
fillydashon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:56:14 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Or just make it the tragedy of Mercutio, where his loyalty to the blundering and idiotic Romeo leads to his downfall and death. Pox on the rest of the play!
Tattered_Colours ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:08:37 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
True, we'd probably get a much better story.
Iohet ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:33:55 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Similar concept re:Hamlet in Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead
blood_bender ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:22:55 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Unreliable isn't just about leaving parts of the story out though. Yes, that can be a large part of it, but Holden was unreliable for a lot more reasons than that. His version of things is very clearly not the version "an adult" would have in the situation, or at least a more objective character, but he's so influenced by emotions and prejudices that it really adds to his entire point of view being unreliable, not just the parts that he leaves out of the story.
I read it once in high school, and Holden was instantly one of my favorite characters in any book I'd read. I read it again last year (I graduated 10 years ago) and it was completely different book, and had the same opinion of the first comment linked above ("what a whiny little asshole"). Not the Holden I remember.
ClarkFable ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 14:47:57 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
Similar sorta thing happened to me when i accidentally watched the last episode of True Detective first, and skipped the the first one. Needless to say, i was confused as all hell.
I didn't realize my mistake until watching the last episode (for the second time, unknowingly) and thinking, "why are they spending the first 10 minutes of the last episode on a flashback to the first episode?"
edit: grammar
SecretBlogon ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:24:02 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This happened to me with Game of Thrones. I didn't watch the first episode, or maybe forgot what happened. I also had a hard time remembering all the faces and names.
So I had no idea incest was happening, until really really late into the show, or that the boy was crippled because he was thrown out a window.
Sometimes they'd zoom in on people's faces or frame things in a way where I know something of significance just happened, but I would have no real idea of what was going on.
the_dayman ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:21:15 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This sort of happened to me when I started Mr Robot on episode 1 instead of episode 0. Like, it really just jumped into the action, and he kept talking about things he had told us before. I thought it was going to be a cool flashback heavy/confusing narrator or something, until I realized I just missed an episode.
RadicalDog ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:30:35 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yay! Did the same with The Man in the High Castle. First "episode" was a behind the scenes, so I came back a day later and skipped in one. Silly me.
jayjacks ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:26:43 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I did this exact same thing. Damn HBO Go user interface. I don't regret it though. It was a terrific and hellish hour of television.
ClarkFable ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:32:35 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
" Damn HBO Go user interface."
Ha! I was going to mention this, because it's what got me, but i choose to blame myself. :)
Did you end up missing the first episode too?
jayjacks ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:42:16 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, I watched the finale first. At the end of the episode I was trying to imagine how the series climax could top the first episode. Then I slowly realized what happened. Still great, though. It actually made me appreciate it more. Like when you see Matthew Mconoughay in the hospital with the black eye - its his right (?) eye that's swollen shut - which reflects some narrative he gave earlier about some philosopher who talks about gazing into the infinite through your left eye, or what not. I'll look it up later if you want me to, but I'm on mobile now so it's difficult.
Tldr the writing is tight.
Miles_Prowess ยท 57 points ยท Posted at 15:02:37 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Grave of the Fireflies was like that for me. Apparently both the main characters were shown starving to death right at the start, but I guess I can't identify faces very well so the whole time I was rooting for them to make it and my girlfriend kept trying to convince me they already died, and it turned out she was right and the movie was shitty and depressing.
Mountebank ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 17:02:36 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You know what's even sadder? Grave of the Fireflies is an autobiography by the boy. The only change to the story is that the boy also died, which in the author's own words, is "what should have happened".
Miles_Prowess ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:41:56 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well then. I wish I could say this made me dislike the movie more or something, but I don't think that's possible.
churakaagii ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 15:27:29 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, even if you remember that they die, it's still really depressing.
But really good.
starfries ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:19:35 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Wait, they starved to death? I didn't realize that either...
Tranzlater ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 16:13:53 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
How could you not realise that? Did you watch it without subtitles?
DocJawbone ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:20:25 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Never heard of that film until now... omg
Silversol99 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:07:25 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Emotionally it's the anime equivalent of Requiem for a Dream.
websnarf ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:56:59 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, but in Requiem, the people sort of dig their own graves. In Graveyard, it's not their fault. They did nothing to deserve what happened, and they tried so hard to survive.
gracefulwing ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:03:08 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
you have to watch it, but only once. then you can go take an ugly cry in the shower. it's very cathartic.
Miles_Prowess ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 18:42:25 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, don't bother. TLDW; Everyone dies and screw you audience.
bomblol ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:03:47 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
ha yeah all art should be made with the sole purposing of providing pleasure devoid of any context
ImGoinDisWaaaay ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 15:40:02 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
I didnt know And Then There Were None had an epilogue for like two months. I just closed the book after the The End.
Kalean ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 18:57:56 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Reminds me of my friend's dad. He went in to see Predator without knowing the premise, and missed the first few minutes with the predator reveal. So he gets in a little late, and is just watching this typical gung ho military action flick. Go America and all that. Then suddenly people just start fucking dying and crazy shit is coming out of the trees, and he has no more idea what's going on as they do. When Jesse Ventura goes ape with that minigun and the plasma cannon blows a hole in him, he's freaking out. To this day he says it was 10x better that way.
tl;dr - Watch predator without the opening scene, it's a military rambo movie that suddenly gets interrupted by horror sci fi from out of left field.
cheesegoat ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:41:12 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like Sunshine is missing a first act. Cool sci-fi thriller, and then Freddy Kreuger jumps into the movie.
Kalean ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:10:40 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Haha, right? Still loved it, though.
AThrowawayAsshole ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:20:31 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Oh my God yes. I was watching it and in the last twenty minutes I was sitting there with a 'what is fucking happening?' look on my face.
delta_baryon ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:09:15 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
That does sound much better. I like watching films not even knowing what genre they are sometimes.
Kalean ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:14:09 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Being surprised is often nice in movies, but trailers spoil too much. Looking at BOTH recent terminator movies and their trailers that spoil the main plot twist.
Best trailer in recent years was the Guardians of the Galaxy lineup teaser trailer. Thoroughly introduce characters, movie is in space, marvel brand logo, boom, done.
BarfMeARiver ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:53:24 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you, I know what I'm watching tonight when my kids fall asleep!
websnarf ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:59:22 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Someone ought to re-cut the film that way. I think I agree, the movie would probably be a lot better without the "give it away narrative".
EDIT: Perhaps someone should make a subreddit with recut movies. You could put all the Starwars prequels in there, this thing and ideas for cuts like predator without the opening scene.
gradstudent4ever ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 18:49:47 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Teaching a course about representations of the transatlantic slave trade and slavery in the new world, I decided to do my students a solid and require the cheapest possible edition of Huck Finn I could find.
I had never imagined that one would abridge such a relatively short and easy novel.
Moreover, it never occurred to me that, in abridging it, one might replace every use of the word slave with the word servant. And I'm pretty sure they also cut out every N word in the whole thing, too. Pretty much any part of the text that revealed what Twain was critiquing--the racism and classism that underlay the supposed charm of Southern culture--had been erased or sanitized.
I realized this when my desk copy arrived, way too late to change the order, but just in time to email the kids not to buy it.
I wish I hadn't thrown away that copy because it would be a comedy goldmine if it weren't so enraging.
lilwhitestormy ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:23:31 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
you should get the version where the replace every instance of the n-word with Robot.
goldilocks_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:48:39 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Pretty sure it would result in an accurate prediction of the future after AI cyborgs become commonplace.
iNEEDheplreddit ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:10:23 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Oh ffs. I get ZERO for reading comprehension. One - didn't realise Allie was a male. Two - never knew she/he was dead. I just thought that he missed her and that she was the only one who understood him. To a degree.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:12:08 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You may be thinking about Phoebe.
CrystalFissure ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 15:07:57 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Holy shit, /u/DabuSurvivor, you're Reddit famous now! Surprised to see your name on the front page.
Great story btw.
[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 16:33:31 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Wonder when we'll see Shutupredneckman on a cringe thread on the front page.
DabuSurvivor ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:42:24 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Funnily enough, CrystalFissure is actually from the Spyro the Dragon fanbase, not the Survivor one. I've been leading a double life...
ringo_phillips ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:57:44 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Are you trying to say you're cheating on us? Just change you're name to /u/DabuSpyro if you're going to play us like that.
SFEagle44 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:05:06 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'd personally suggest /u/DabuOgden.
k9centipede ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:35:04 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This admission of reading comprehension sure does explain some of your ranks at /r/hprankdown ;)
CrystalFissure ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 10:49:47 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I may frequent /r/Spyro and not /r/Survivor, but I'll have you know that I have watched about 12 seasons of Survivor!
6, 8-13, 15-12! And bits of 1 and 2 when I was really young.
DabuSurvivor ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:12:20 on November 11, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
/r/survivor would love to have you if you're ever interested in catching up on more of the show!
[deleted] ยท 57 points ยท Posted at 15:46:30 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I wonder if everyone who says Holden is nothing more than a "whiny asshole" would say that to the face of someone who suffers from debilitating depression.
[deleted] ยท 35 points ยท Posted at 17:47:27 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously. So many people say he's just a whiny rich brat but don't consider the traumatizing events that happened to him and the alienation he feels, both of which are pretty important in understanding the story
DabuSurvivor ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 19:45:03 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's probably kind of a backlash against people who think everything he says is right and "cool." There are lots of whiny teenagers who see him as a role model, which is wrong (probably my favorite part of the book was when, in conjunction with a piano performance or something, he talks about how people always stupidly applaud for the wrong things, which is basically pre-emptively slamming his own fanbase.) So the natural response for lots of people is to swing to "No he's not! He's just a whiny teenager!" when really he's more complex than either of those - definitely not a role model but flawed for legit reasons.
Iohet ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:35:39 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Sounds like he's got a case of Affluenza
Oshojabe ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 16:54:31 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Not being entertained by a fictional person's life doesn't mean one lacks compassion for real people in similar situations.
[deleted] ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 17:24:36 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
But if that's what they honestly think about Holden's problems then I would imagine that deep down inside they would feel the same way if Holden were a real person.
thewoodendesk ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:26:53 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The dude also lost his younger brother. People really should cut him some slack.
ManiacalShen ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:04:43 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Well, part of the problem is that you read that book as a teen... when your empathy isn't quite grown yet. I was a really well-adjusted kid with no concept of what the fuck was wrong with Holden; I just knew he bored me. I'm not even sure I understood depression as a chemical imbalance that needed treatment at the time, because I was maybe fourteen and just hadn't run into the concept yet.
I guess books like that were supposed to be the introduction to it, but it and Ordinary People just did not click with me at all.
rbcoolie ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:48:02 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They're all saying what's on their minds. It's only recently that depression has been accepted as a real mental illness, but it was more thrust upon people to accept it. Also I think it's now the "cool" thing to consider Holden a "whiny <insert curse word>". Like it's some sort of rite of passage from adolescence to adulthood to "realize" Holden's got it good in life and should be happy.
Ghost29 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:07:51 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think it's so much cool as it's a changing of the times. In high school during the early 2000s, we all pretty much thought he was a whiny little privileged prat.
TheMagicJesus ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:49:11 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's pretty heavily implied that he was molested as well. I thought the book was great and anyone who complains about having to read a couple hundred pages is ridiculous anyway
CurReign ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:03:09 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
How so?
ItsOnDVR ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:45:00 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's been a few years since I read it, but I think it's more that Holden thinks his teacher that he stays with is coming on to him.
chakrablocker ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:15:42 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Adding to that...
Whether or not he was is almost unimportant. What is important is that Holden feels incapable of trusting adults.
RudeHero ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:36:03 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
sometimes depressed people hate themselves, and they see the shittier parts of themselves in him.
Imadoc91 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:52:50 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Hi, former sufferer of debilitating depression. Failed 4 classes because I didnt turn in homework for an entire semester only ever left bed to go to work. Still think he is a whiny asshole. Depression is a weird thing, you know youre depressed and you know youre fucking up. You just cant be arsed to care
reemasqooraf ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:03:44 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, the backlash toward him always kind of confused me. Losing a close family member at that age can be (and often is) extremely traumatizing. Why would you expect him to be super well-adjusted?
I know my mind would be all sorts of fucked if my sister died.
mynewaccount5 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:18:37 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
When people call him a whiny asshole they mean it's not a good book and isn't really as deep or amazing as is claimed. Not that they treat real people the same as fictional characters.
Freakin_Geek ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 00:18:31 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
This comment will never see the light of day but Im posting anyways.
SPOILERS FOR The Velveteen Rabbit
When I read The Velveteen Rabbit as a small child, I stopped reading it because I was crying so hard. They threw all the child's stuff in a pile to burn because he had a contagious disease or whatever. His favorite toy rabbit was thrown on the pile. The pile was set on fire.
I put the book down and for years I held a grudge against that book for ruining my childhood.
One day in mt late 20's my sister said, "Oh, how much I loved The Velveteen Rabbit."
I replid, "UGH. That fucking book. I hate that fucking book."
My sister looked shocked and said, "Really?? Why?"
"Because they burned his fucking stuffed rabbit, that's why. Assholes."
My sister stared blankly at me for a long while.
"Did you read the whole thing?"
"NO. I was crying so fucking hard, I put it down. What a horrible fucking book."
"Freakin_Geek....... A fairy comes along and turns his stuffed rabbit into a real rabbit and it hopped away."
I stared blankly at her. "What...?"
"Freakin_Geek, what other books have you stopped reading?"
possiblegoat ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:51:03 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Haha, are you kidding me? I never finished that book either, for the same reason.
I loved my stuffed animals so much that I would switch out which ones got to sit on the bed every night so that none of them would feel left out. The thought of them being taken away and burned alive was terrifying to me.
Freakin_Geek ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:53:56 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I kept them all on my bed with me. And if one fell off, they would get extra snuggles.
firematt422 ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 14:49:59 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I actually like his version better. I always hated Holden Caulfield. If his parents had killed Allie, I think the book would've been so much better. More than just something for angsty teenagers to relate to.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 16:45:12 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not really sure angsty teenagers have related to the book for a couple decades at least. I was an angsty teenager when I read it, and I really didn't relate.
firematt422 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 16:50:58 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You probably spent most of the time reading it feeling superior to him then. Either way, if Allie had been killed by his father, I think it really makes Holden come out in the end as a more interesting character who is memorable for different and better reasons.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:52:44 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know why you would think I felt that way. Otherwise, I agree
firematt422 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:53:38 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
They seem to be the two most popular opinions. I didn't mean it in a bad way. He's a whiny little bitch.
Lavagasm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:49:03 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Personally, when I read the book as a preteen, I disliked Holden and the book as a whole. He was unrelatable in any way, his narration was boring and obnoxiously terrible. The writing and characters felt far too dated for my liking.
When I read it again as a teenager I thought to myself; "What the fuck is so fucking great about this stupid fucking book that I need to read it a SECOND time?"
Then when I had to read it again in college I dropped the course and took the same class from a different professor the next semester. There has to be another book written in the last 60+ years that would be more enjoyable and actually thought provoking than that rubbish.
Edit: I forgot that I wanted to mention that I never felt superior to Holden.
firematt422 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:24:13 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I've never seen it as something with much new philosophy to offer the world, but it is a very culturally important book. It comes up a lot (relatively speaking), so I can see why teachers feel it's an important book to have read. I mean, we're talking about it now right?
Lavagasm ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:28:27 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
I've personally never thought of the book other than when somebody I don't know brings it up. The only reason it's still brought up is because it's been on arbitrary school reading lists since the 70s/80s.
Catcher in the Rye has never provoked thought or discussion out of interest for me, but rather disinterest and hostility. The fact that it garners attention and continues to me a mainstay on school reading lists today bothers me.
The book, in my opinion, stood the test of time only through autocratic crotchety curriculum creators (say that three times fast). The teachers and school boards that assign this book are the same ones that are out of touch with reality as it is today.
I would rather my wife tell me she doesn't love me anymore, than tell me she likes Catcher in the Rye. At least we could get divorced and move on with our lives in the first scenario. The thought of someone I know enjoying that book would make me question my very existence and life choices. It is that bad of a book for me.
Edit: Spelling.
Edit 2: Downvote me all you want invisible internet points mean nothing.
Here's a tidbit - Mark David Chapman bought Catcher in the Rye and then shot John Lennon on the same day. Cooincidence?
firematt422 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:24:54 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This is what I meant by culturally important. Thanks to those teachers who made you read it (without having known you'd been put through it multiple times), you were ready to enter the conversation with a well formed opinion of the book instead of being left wondering why.
Lavagasm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:52:03 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I just really dislike the book, a lot. Professors, teachers and school boards have the right to choose whether they want to assign Catcher in the Rye to their curriculum.
I learned the Mark David Chapman thing from a John Lennon documentary though. Had I not dropped that course in college I might have learned that fact from the internet or the teacher, so your point is well noted .
xanju ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:52:29 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
When I was an angsty teenager I didn't like to read.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:06:06 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe that was all it was :P
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:51:41 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It already is more than that. You read it wrong.
corgi_on_a_treadmill ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 22:13:32 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
What is up with so many people not empathizing (not even sympathizing) with Holden, when the clues to his whininess are all there? Did people just start reading with the preconceived notion that they should hate Holden because "lol he's a bitch?" Did Salinger make Holden too off-putting?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:18:42 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know. It's really just an opinion I see on reddit, I don't think I've ever heard people bitch so hard and have such negative feelings about him in real life.
firematt422 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:21:37 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It leaves you with an overall bad impression of Holden. That's all I'm saying. It's popular among angry teens and narcissistic serial killers for a reason.
Also, I'm sure you're super smart and all, but you can't interpret art incorrectly. That's kind of the point.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:28:20 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I read it when I was a teen and I neither got the impression that he was supposed to be some relatable angsty guy or just some whiny kid with a cushioned life. I thought it was clear he was deeply troubled and a bit insane, and the ending confirms it. It just baffles me that he's labeled as such by reddit and widely persecuted for the former.
DragoonDM ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:53:10 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Sounds like a job for an enterprising fanfic writer.
firematt422 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:55:34 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I wonder If I can delete those two pages, and add, "just like he did Allie" to the end of the last "dad's going to kill you" line from his sister and sell it.
SuperGanondorf ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:27:53 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I despised the book when I read it in my junior year English class several years ago (and I still do), but this might have actually made it a lot more interesting.
BruceIsTheBatman ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:41:09 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I've never heard such an original opinion as this before about this book!
mynewaccount5 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:27:44 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It's sort of a big step to go from "he forgot because he's forgetful" to "he forgot because he was traumatized so he forgot he didn't tell us but still remembers the event even though that doesn't really make sense"
Or from "his little sister exaggerated" to "his sister witnessed the murder of her brother and casually brings it up even though Holden doesn't really care"
dam072000 ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 16:30:44 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The first time I read The Two Towers I misread the part where Treebeard was explaining the weaknesses of the Ents. Somehow I read it as things they are resistant to so I thought they were super OP tree giants immune to fire like that stone tree Pokemon. Second time I read it they weren't so OP :/
chknqwn ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 17:20:21 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
When I read the last Harry Potter book, during the Battle of Hogwarts, I was camping and excited/anxious to get to the end, so I was rushing a little and accidentally skipped the page where Fred died. Percy came back, there was an explosion, and then Harry had to go find Voldy and Snape. So I was shocked when Harry goes into the Great Hall and the Weasleys are all crying over Fred's body, and annoyed. Like really, JKR killed a WEASLEY off-screen??? It just seemed like such an amateur thing to do.
Luckily I reread it pretty soon after, and no pages stuck together that time. Heh.
DabuSurvivor ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:49:07 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Similarly I didn't realize Lupin/Tonks died until the end, after the battle, where they list everyone who's dead and the "fifty others." Although they died off-page anyway so I guess it wasn't that big a difference.
CaptainUnusual ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:51:27 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Fred died on-screen? I somehow missed that too, and was super impressed at Rowling for doing such a brutal thing.
Ihatecraptcha ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:40:38 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I think I skipped a couple critical pages in my life because my memory is just like schizophrenic Holden's.
__WayDown ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:36:47 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Holy hell. I wish I could have that kind of accident with a book. That sounds like an amazing experience.
crt134 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:08:31 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Back in the 90s my dad rented Braveheart. At the time it came on 2 vhs tapes. Well, he accidentally watched the 2nd tape first. He finally realized his mistake when Mel Gibson died and he couldn't fathom how there was still another hour and a half left in the movie
MystikIncarnate ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:34:11 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Now I want to find this book at my local libraries and glue those pages together....
KrontanamoJay ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:45:38 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Something similar happened to me with Crime and Punishment. I had no real idea what the book was really about, and I accidentally skipped the chapter where he murders the people. So he's just kind of freaking out about something he did and I had no clue what was going on. Thinking he must be going insane or something.
ginger_vampire ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:26:25 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
You know, one could still make the argument that Allie was murdered. Holden's an unreliable narrator with obvious mental instabilities, remember? Perhaps the only way he could cope with Allie's death was by convincing himself that he died of illness. Mentally altering events as a way to cope with grief is a pretty common trope in fiction, if not real life.
fanboyhunter ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:20:08 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, a similar thing happened to me when reading The Sun Also Rises. I bought a used copy on Amazon, and it had huge portions clipped out of it, like some dumbass kid was too lazy to re-type the bits for a school project or something.
Basically, I missed a lot of things. Like the main character's impotence. That sets the stage for the tension with his love interest for the whole book, and here I was thinking she was just some aloof asshole who couldn't be tied down.
But yeah, he couldn't get it up.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:26:04 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
In all honesty it's super easy to miss that, even if you are a decent reader and have the whole text.
fanboyhunter ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:28:31 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
True, but I had no chance.
I can't remember what else I was missing (obviously, how could I) but probably every 3rd chapter there were a few paragraphs missing, usually the first few of the chapter.
takatori ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:12:51 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
The title didn't clue you in that the book was about things getting up?
AwkwardlySober ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:33:08 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Reminds me of the story someone told of missing the opening scene of the movie Predator and being shocked when the badass soldiers in the jungle got torn apart by an alien.
_Sagacious_ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:49:39 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I've only just started reading the book and I really want to read this comment but I know I shouldn't until I finish the book.
RadicalDog ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:31:26 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Get to like page 60, that should be enough
DabuSurvivor ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:34:09 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
It wouldn't really spoil much after you get like 50 pages in (whenever he writes about a glove) - only that he interacts with a certain character near the end - but it would probably be more entertaining after you've read the book.
TryUsingScience ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:56:01 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I had a similar although less dramatic experience with Blood and Iron. The book has a ton of references to Tam Lin strewn throughout it, and the characters have a habit of talking in circles around things instead of saying them outright.
I spent my entire first read confused about the relationships between half the characters because they'd be implied through questions like, "Is he going to wait for you at the crossroads?" which at the time didn't mean much to me, but if you know Tam Lin, is a pretty clear reference to the two characters being lovers.
shillbert ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:15:23 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This is why I have an automatic habit of checking the page number every time I turn the page. It really bothers me when I read a manga that doesn't have page numbers.
honeypuppy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:45:07 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I watched Breakfast at Tiffany's, having previously seen the Seinfeld episode about it. I was waiting the whole movie for the twist where Fred was revealed as gay.
DabuSurvivor ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:26:56 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
I haven't seen that movie or show but I fucking love the Deep Blue Something song.
Illustraitor ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:13:18 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
My parents told me they watched Edge of Tomorrow at the movie theatre. I asked my dad what he thought of it, and he said, "Eh, it seemed like a typical Tom Cruise movie where there's lots of explosions, he beats the aliens, and saves the day. There wasn't any tension to it."
It turns out they only watched the last half of it because they walked in after their original movie had ended. They managed to miss the whole premise of the movie.
Danakona ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:12:07 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Iโm a little late to this party, but I had a very very similar experience with Gone Girl. I messed up opening the book on my kindle and basically started two thirds into the book. On the chapter where she comes home and heโs leans into her ear and says โyou bitchโ or something like that. So I think this whole story is being told from the perspective of the two of them talking in the shower and then later him talking to the detective. Thereโs like zero character development, so Iโm basically trying to figure out who these people are and actually enjoying that they arenโt spoon feeding me anything. Likewise, thereโs like zero plot development, they just say things like โwell what about the shedโ, โwhat about the purseโ with no explanation. Seeing as this is a mystery book this all seems pretty normal and Iโm getting really excited for a big reveal at the end tying all these little pieces togetherโฆand then it just endsโฆ.
It actually would have made a pretty good short story with a slightly better ending. I tried to re-read it from the beginning, gave up after like 20 minutes of being upset and just watched the movie instead.
TwirlySocrates ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:55:07 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Then, I read the title of this reddit post. From its wording, I expected that OP was reading a compilation of high-school curriculum novels, and when he approached the end of Catcher in the Rye, turned two pages at the most important part of the book- the part where the book ends(!)- and then unwittingly proceeds to read an entirely different book (literally).
cistercianmonk ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:51:40 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
My daughter's friend read a different version of A Christmas Carol after misunderstanding what the references to Scrooge's dead partner Marley meant.
I imagine this made the book a more poignant and tragic read.
DantheManFoley ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:16:25 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
i dont even remember the parts about holdens little bro dieing , just that he had a gross roomate
takatori ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:11:33 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
In watching LOST, I missed the episode that revealed that the resurrected Locke was actually the Man in Black.
I thought it really was Locke, with some newfound confidence and connection to the island after coming back to life.
It wasn't until years later when I posted in /r/lost talking about the weird change in his character and how his change didn't seem to fit the ready of the tone and themes of the series.
So I saw the final battle as between Jack and Locke: reason vs faith, rather than light vs dark.
Go_Ask_Reddit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:11:35 on November 10, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
This reminds me of when I rented the Orphanage by Guillermo del Toro. Except i thought it was Orphan with the creepy little girl.
So here I am waiting for the little girl to appear and the movie to become all wacky or whatever. Sorrow, misery, anguish, confusion and the movie ended. I felt so hollow. That's the wrong movie to expect a wacky lighthearted scary movie from.
Ask_A_Sadist ยท -68 points ยท Posted at 09:02:47 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)*
The post is three hours old, a comment here is 2 hours old. It only takes an hour to get to the front page of /r/bestof?
Edit: holy fuck! -56 karma for what is possibly my least offensive comment ever! New milestone reddit!
Edit 2: I'm riding this karma train straight into hell.
cfiggis ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 16:55:05 on November 9, 2015 ยท (Permalink)
Someone up above characterized your comment as questioning why this was posted in /r/bestof.
So, I'm guessing a bunch of people came down here to downvote you without really reading what you actually meant.