I'm looking forward to when political and philosophical debates are closer to Harry Potter battles where people just sound the names of different "fallacies" at each other until someone arbitrarily loses.
[deleted] ยท 91 points ยท Posted at 08:24:40 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 33 points ยท Posted at 15:35:43 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If I consider what the topic is probably about then it's most likely not an argument from fallacy. It's more an "argument from overuse" or something like that.
Let's not fall into the trap of using the "argument from fallacy" argument whenever a logical fallacy is pointed out.
[deleted] ยท 34 points ยท Posted at 15:16:21 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 15:24:22 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The fact that your argument is wrong and why is in and of itself an extremely good point in a debate. Just because people invented names for the most common reasons that someone is wrong, you're going to ignore it? Seriously, there's no need to circlebreak every new trend on the internet. I find it extremely positive that people learn about fallacies, and subsequently, they will of course try harder not to use them because they don't want their inbox to look like the OP.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:06:37 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How do you think people should debate, then? Should they just say their own arguments but not address the other personโs arguments?
You said that people who commit logical fallacies should be ignored or taught. How should they be taught if we shouldnโt point out the mistake in their argument?
Common courtesy is to at least explain why the reasoning is flawed by explaining how the given argument is fallacious, rather than being lazy and just yelling some latin at someone in the hopes that they go on a google tour that will eventually lead them to understand how this fallacy applies to their argument and why it means the argument is false.
It is possible to point out a logical fallacy and then explain how the argument qualifies as that fallacy. The person who I replied to simply said that we shouldnโt point out logical fallacies, not that we shouldnโt only mention the name of a logical fallacy without explaining it.
When you keep seeing comments trying to derail threads against their agenda with "but XYZ isn't an ethical Jesus either" you're perfectly justified in calling their bs out and be done with it. Why put more energy into it? I want to see your guys' purist reddit debates pls, where you follow everything up with lengthy explanations of both sides' positions and provide citations for every of your claims. Best I can do is, "That's whataboutism and you can go fuck yourself".
I made an observation, I didn't claim you need lengthy debates over every instance of whataboutism.
While I agree putting more energy into it isn't necessary, even the amount of pointing it out is unnecessary. For most people you're not going to do anything besides raise awareness of what a fallacy is and let's be honest, most people agreeing with the whataboutism post probably don't know or care about fallacies anyway, and anyone besides that is probably not stupid enough to listen to it.
Ok, you unattackable observer, who totally didn't take any stances. You are so stance-less that you wouldn't ever point out that someone is wrong, not in a lengthy way and not in a shortcut way. It's just not worth the effort. That's just amazing. But you don't stop there. You'll even go as far as "circlebreaking" any instance of someone else taking the shortcut because you're such a debate hipster. And the reason for that is that
some people are too stupid for fallacies and some people are not stupid enough for fallacies
q.e.d
mugrimm ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 15:51:12 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is called whataboutism, which is a logical fallacy.
Atsena ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 20:46:18 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
PTSD flashbacks to all the morons I should have stopped attempting discussion with.
I was once literally making the case for epistemic authority and kept being interrupted... because he was insisting I was making an Appeal To Authority.
Argumentum abusi fallacia (Latin for "argument of the abused fallacy") is the incorrect use of a formal or informal logical fallacy. As there is an absolute myriad of fallacies to choose from, it's quite easy to not be entirely familiar with them all. False accusations that someone is making a fallacious argument, when they're not, become common. Someone might be making a bad or incorrect argument, but there are ways to be wrong without being fallacious about it and there are ways to be right while still being fallacious. There are also ways to counter an argument without providing a list of fallacies - in the business we call these things "counter" arguments.
That's my favorite fallacy drop on a fallacy teacher.
Yeah, right! Anyone who uses logical fallacies is terrible and should be hanged on piano string. But people who uses cognitive bias are even worse! Anyone who uses them deserves to be impaled, especialy those who use the self-serving bias or even worse, the dunning-kruger effect!!!1
...wait a minute...
Saved comment
QuizzicalUpnod ยท 178 points ยท Posted at 08:09:35 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'm looking forward to when political and philosophical debates are closer to Harry Potter battles where people just sound the names of different "fallacies" at each other until someone arbitrarily loses.
[deleted] ยท 91 points ยท Posted at 08:24:40 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 33 points ยท Posted at 15:35:43 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
"eat dirt kid, then learn how to think"
im crying
HeckleMonster ยท 98 points ยท Posted at 07:52:44 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is called whataboutism, which is a logical fallacy.
BoxesOfBoxesOfBoxes ยท 91 points ยท Posted at 07:28:10 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Oh boy, that person is in for a ride.
heideggerfanfiction ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 09:03:00 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This might make their brain explode. Careful with the wikipedia bombs!
Prosthemadera ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 13:45:41 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
If I consider what the topic is probably about then it's most likely not an argument from fallacy. It's more an "argument from overuse" or something like that.
Let's not fall into the trap of using the "argument from fallacy" argument whenever a logical fallacy is pointed out.
[deleted] ยท 34 points ยท Posted at 15:16:21 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 15:24:22 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Bruh
Prosthemadera ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:23:13 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I think that's an argument from apathy. Checkmate!
is_is_not_karmanaut ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:20:44 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
So the best way to debate you is to use as many fallacies as possible because you're too much of a snob to call someone out for it?
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 16:31:52 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
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is_is_not_karmanaut ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:50:02 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
The fact that your argument is wrong and why is in and of itself an extremely good point in a debate. Just because people invented names for the most common reasons that someone is wrong, you're going to ignore it? Seriously, there's no need to circlebreak every new trend on the internet. I find it extremely positive that people learn about fallacies, and subsequently, they will of course try harder not to use them because they don't want their inbox to look like the OP.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:06:37 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
is_is_not_karmanaut ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:09:46 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I'll get you banned from /r/JordanPeterson in return.
MS-06_Borjarnon ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:35:43 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAaaaaaaaaaaa
Hulkkicker30 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:11:53 on March 29, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Do you know where you're at sonny
IntellectualElite ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:39:42 on March 29, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
How do you think people should debate, then? Should they just say their own arguments but not address the other personโs arguments?
You said that people who commit logical fallacies should be ignored or taught. How should they be taught if we shouldnโt point out the mistake in their argument?
Myrdradek ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:54:09 on March 29, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Common courtesy is to at least explain why the reasoning is flawed by explaining how the given argument is fallacious, rather than being lazy and just yelling some latin at someone in the hopes that they go on a google tour that will eventually lead them to understand how this fallacy applies to their argument and why it means the argument is false.
IntellectualElite ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:37:13 on March 30, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
It is possible to point out a logical fallacy and then explain how the argument qualifies as that fallacy. The person who I replied to simply said that we shouldnโt point out logical fallacies, not that we shouldnโt only mention the name of a logical fallacy without explaining it.
Cookielolz ยท 44 points ยท Posted at 07:31:54 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Lmao, /r/worldnews in general receives and points out whataboutism near constantly, it's ridiculous to watch.
Spike_der_Spiegel ยท 42 points ยท Posted at 14:47:04 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is called whataboutism, which is a logical fallacy
is_is_not_karmanaut ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:17:29 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
When you keep seeing comments trying to derail threads against their agenda with "but XYZ isn't an ethical Jesus either" you're perfectly justified in calling their bs out and be done with it. Why put more energy into it? I want to see your guys' purist reddit debates pls, where you follow everything up with lengthy explanations of both sides' positions and provide citations for every of your claims. Best I can do is, "That's whataboutism and you can go fuck yourself".
Cookielolz ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:33:32 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
I made an observation, I didn't claim you need lengthy debates over every instance of whataboutism.
While I agree putting more energy into it isn't necessary, even the amount of pointing it out is unnecessary. For most people you're not going to do anything besides raise awareness of what a fallacy is and let's be honest, most people agreeing with the whataboutism post probably don't know or care about fallacies anyway, and anyone besides that is probably not stupid enough to listen to it.
is_is_not_karmanaut ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 17:06:34 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Ok, you unattackable observer, who totally didn't take any stances. You are so stance-less that you wouldn't ever point out that someone is wrong, not in a lengthy way and not in a shortcut way. It's just not worth the effort. That's just amazing. But you don't stop there. You'll even go as far as "circlebreaking" any instance of someone else taking the shortcut because you're such a debate hipster. And the reason for that is that
q.e.d
mugrimm ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 15:51:12 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This is called whataboutism, which is a logical fallacy.
Atsena ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 20:46:18 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
God, I fucking hate informal fallacies.
nemporisso ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 15:32:52 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
PTSD flashbacks to all the morons I should have stopped attempting discussion with.
I was once literally making the case for epistemic authority and kept being interrupted... because he was insisting I was making an Appeal To Authority.
โน๏ธ
YoungPyromancer ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:32:04 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, a broken record.
ofrm1 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:04:51 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yet another moron who learned the word from watching Last Week Tonight and couldn't wait to run to the presses to let us know how smart they are.
Gotta love people who just yell fallacy and think that constitutes a refutation.
Gnome_Sane ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:38:06 on March 29, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Essay:Argumentum_abusi_fallacia
That's my favorite fallacy drop on a fallacy teacher.
hhwesrteee ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:55:04 on March 28, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, right! Anyone who uses logical fallacies is terrible and should be hanged on piano string. But people who uses cognitive bias are even worse! Anyone who uses them deserves to be impaled, especialy those who use the self-serving bias or even worse, the dunning-kruger effect!!!1 ... wait a minute...
Myrdradek ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:55:01 on March 29, 2018 ยท (Permalink)
This, but unironically