No joke - as a young mormon teen growing up in Mormonville USA, I had a friend whose mother "censored" his junior high social studies book with tape because it had pictures of some nude Greek/Roman statues. She deliberately went through his school textbooks to look for anything she found offensive so she could cover it up. Total crazytown.
JPOnion · 80 points · Posted at 23:44:24 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
It's not just Mormans, unfortunately. My Pentecostal mom did something similar. When I was a kid my dad used to get car magazines and car related comic books (specifically CARtoons). Before he or us kids were allowed to read it she covered up anything offensive with a marker, including the little gremlin creatures sometimes used to represent "automotive gremlins", bad words and any depiction of cleavage. I still have some of them, and some parts are nearly unreadable :(
EDIT: I'm doing some research into this and the generic title "CARtoons" is making it hard. Anyway, I might have been remembering a bit wrong. I do remember there being little gremlin creatures in the occasional comic, but some of them were "Varmints", little creatures or people or something from a series of strips published in the comic series "Unk and them Varmints". My mom would have been markered over them as well; too demonic looking. Here's an example of some of the older covers: link, and removed because it was Facebook, oops. Apparently in 1975 they stopped including "Unk and them Varmints" comics in each issue, so they didn't commonly appear when I started reading in the mid 80's.
Furoan · 21 points · Posted at 01:24:38 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wait...before your dad got to look at it? What did she do if she found him reading it WITHOUT her 'assistance'.
JPOnion · 27 points · Posted at 01:31:22 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Usually, yeah, she'd look over it before he would sit down to read; at least that's what I remember. It wasn't super strict and nothing really bad would happen if he read it before she got ahold of it, but I think he'd be made to feel guilty. Us kids were a different story, though; it definitely had to get the marker treatment before we could read it.
mwoodj · 9 points · Posted at 02:53:41 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
All the officer patients in the ward were forced to censor letters written by all the enlisted-men patients, who were kept in residence in wards of their own. It was a monotonous job, and Yossarian was disappointed to learn that the lives of enlisted men were only slightly more interesting than the lives of officers.
After the first day he had no curiosity at all. To break the monotony he invented games. Death to all modifiers, he declared one day, and out of every letter that passed through his hands went every adverb and every adjective. The next day he made war on articles. He reached a much higher plane of creativity the following day when he blacked out everything in the letters but a, an and the. That erected more dynamic intralinear tensions, he felt, and in just about every case left a message far more universal. Soon he was proscribing parts of salutations and signatures and leaving the text untouched. One time he blacked out all but the salutation "Dear Mary" from a letter, and at the bottom he wrote, "I yearn for you tragically. A. T. Tappman, Chaplain, U.S. Army." A. T. Tappman was the group chaplain's name.
When he had exhausted all possibilities in the letters, he began attacking the names and addresses on the envelopes, obliterating whole homes and streets, annihilating entire metropolises with careless flicks of his wrist as though he were God.
Catch-22 required that each censored letter bear the censoring officer's name. Most letters he didn't read at all. On those he didn't read at all he wrote his own name. On those he did read he wrote, "Washington Irving." When that grew monotonous he wrote, "Irving Washington." Censoring the envelopes had serious repercussions, produced a ripple of anxiety on some ethereal military echelon that floated a C.I.D. man back into the ward posing as a patient. They all knew he was a C.I.D. man because he kept inquiring about an officer named Irving or Washington and because after his first day there he wouldn't censor letters. He found them too monotonous.
I need to read Catch 22 again. Hilarious stuff. Have an upvote!
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 01:48:51 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I want those CARtoons!!! I miss it so much.
JPOnion · 1 points · Posted at 02:10:56 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
They're rare, but you can occasionally find them. My uncle found some at a garage sale last year, and I've seen them at antique shops and car shows. I didn't have the money at the time, but a while back I found an antique shop that had about 20 different issues. I wish I would have borrowed the money or something, they were amazing comics :)
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 02:22:12 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
automotive gremlins
What's an automotive gremlin?
JPOnion · 1 points · Posted at 02:33:27 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
A gremlin is a creature commonly depicted as mischievous and mechanically oriented, with a specific interest in aircraft. Gremlins' mischievous natures are similar to those of English folkloric imps, while their inclination to damage or dismantle machinery is more modern.
Basically when you have a mechanical or electrical issue that seemingly comes and goes at random, and/or is proving really difficult and time consuming to identify, you can say it's a gremlin. Obviously you don't believe it's an actual creature in there causing problems, purposefully making it harder for you to identify and fix, teasing you by making the problem disappear when you think you're close but making it return a bit later...but it sure does seem like it.
That makes me wonder why any car company would allow a car model to be named a gremlin.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 20:30:54 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That makes sense. Thanks.
jerslan · 2 points · Posted at 06:04:14 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Had a roommate in College that was raised Pentecostal... The day he discovered South Park was when I began to hate that show... Don't get me wrong it's hilarious, but not when every episode is played 5 times a day until the new one comes out :P
A little off topic, so I do apologize, but did you know that they do this in Japan to porn magazines? I lived there for about 3 years and saw this several times. If a store is going to sell porn magazines, the women have to either have so much pubic hair that you can't see their vaginas, or someone has to draw it on with a marker. Or use something to literally scratch it off the page. But if it's a cartoon, you can't show any pubic hair at all. It's exactly opposite. I never understood how a culture that's so openly sexual that there are sex video games in arcades and dildo vending machines on the streets would censor genitals from their porn magazines. Of course, if it was local made, it would have already been censored. But if they import American porn or from anywhere else, someone is drawing a ton of hair on vaginas with a marker or scratching them off the pages.
JPOnion · 1 points · Posted at 21:18:39 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Yup! I lived in Tokyo off and on, a year and half in total, and it's just like you said. It was an odd bit of culture shock over to how prevalent it can be (I saw people reading hentai on the subway, I saw explicit porn ads posted on the outside of normal book/magazine stores, I once found lolicon at a park near my apartment, etc), especially compared to how hidden away it has to be in American society. And as you say, it's so weird what gets censored. The subject matter can be extremely explicit and hardcore, but that's irrelevant to the censoring process, all they seem to care about is not seeing certain areas of certain body parts. Tentacle monster raping underage girl? No problem. But the tip of the penis-tentacle is taboo, so when it's not too far inside her, put a black box around that part. WTF?
I never understood it either. Over the years I've read a few articles explaining it, but I still don't get it.
Thank-you for your comment, but unfortuneately it has been removed because it links to Facebook. Facebook is designed to contain a lot of private and personal information, usually found in comments in the form of photos and names. This basically makes Facebook incompatible with the rules of reddit.
Here are some alternatives...
if it's a photo you want to show, you can download it or screenshot it and upload it to an anonymous image file hosting website like imgur.com or minus.com. If it has some personal info on it, you should probably block that out (blur, black rectangles). And don't forget to read the image rules on /r/atheism before posting.
if it's a special Facebook page, you can just mention its name and remind users to use the inner Facebook search engine
if it's a discussion, you can take a screenshot (and color out or blur names and faces) and upload it to some image file hosting website... or you can copy/paste the text content
if it's a video, try looking for a copy of that video on some other website, like YouTube, it may already be posted. If you can't find it and can't download and upload the video somewhere else, the best idea is to summarize the points in the video or describe the relevant parts of it.
JPOnion · 1 points · Posted at 03:14:11 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oops! I edited my post with a link to a Facebook gallery containing some old CARtoon pages so everyone could see what my mom considered demonic enough to cover up with a marker. I removed the link, any chance of getting the post restored? Sorry!
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 02:20:46 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
My Chabad Hassidic school blacked out pigs and dinosaurs in books and coloring pages with a sharpie.
When I was in high school we watched Schindler's List and parents had whined so much in the past that our history teacher stood up and covered the tv with a newspaper for a brief boobshot. My english teacher did the same thing for this version of Romeo and Juliet we were watching. I don't even live in a very religious community. People are just batshit insane.
Yeah I think I remember my English teacher fast forwarding that Romeo and Juliet part
gthing · 1 points · Posted at 07:19:02 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Ha my (Mormon) mom used to go through the Victoria's secret catalog with a sharpie. When that wasn't enough she started using scissors to cut out the naughty bits. Eventually there was almost nothing left and she finally threw it away.
Here is my btc address if anyone wants to help with the therapy bills: 1LZR2d6Y5DwBGnbof3ndRCtQJbifXzo3E8
For the life of me, I cannot figure out how anyone thinks that censorship accomplishes anything positive. It just makes people more interested in whatever was censored. It's the progenitor of the Streisand Effect.
Ahh the religious. So sexually obsessed due to the generations of sexual oppression that they deflect and over compensate by trying to take the opposite extreme. Basically, the kinkiest people in the US you could ever find, with the most diverse and somewhat odd fetishes, would be those in the most religious communities (if they ever admitted it.)
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 14:26:15 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I went to a tiny Baptist school in elementary, and there was a family that wasn't allowed to take the clothes off of their Barbie's. Whatever garb they came in, they stayed in. Weird as hell, even for the rest of us fellow brainwashed kids.
Meanwhile, my dad let me watch Monty Python's The Meaning of Life when it first came out (I was 6 or 7). Hey, it had cartoons (of naked ladies giving birth to the universe...)
Because you know self control doesn't exist right?
kkby · 221 points · Posted at 21:18:33 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't understand; if boys are not expected to have self control about their behavior around girls, how are girls expected to have self control about how they dress?
Ah but you see, girls and boys are not equal, boys are always the victim of the feminine whiles of devilish girls /s
It's a disgusting and troublesome double standard.
kkby · 91 points · Posted at 01:13:17 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I grew up with sisters who were self possessed and went for what they wanted. When they were late teens and brought boyfriends home for sleepovers, my parents always made them double beds, trusting them to be responsible.
I grew up thinking woman can do anything man could. One of my sister was an athlete, and went to international competitions.
I hope I can give my kids the same point of view.
alexrng · 20 points · Posted at 02:49:04 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So, did your parents make you a double bed when you brought your SO over for the night?
kkby · 33 points · Posted at 02:57:48 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's a really lovely way to think :) I just have to hope that more people are brought up with those values as time passes.
kkby · 2 points · Posted at 13:31:21 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm not good at convincing others really. Am doing my bit by trying to raise my kids right. It is hard - they grow up in a society and it has a big shaping effect on them as well.
You need to balance everything.
That's the most difficult part :( you can be giving them all the right messages but then their peers and the media and even random strangers will sell them cultural bollocks :(
kkby · 3 points · Posted at 13:59:07 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm going for critical thinking, but that is a hard path to tread.
I got so upset when my daughter was learning about the continents. She was taught there are seven, and the definition is 'a large body of land surrounded by water'. That definition does not really match the seven continent story. So I made sure to quiz her about it, and show her that there is no real agreement about number of continents, and the current norm is historically based.
I was upset when they were told there is fire in the Sun. But then I found myself trying to explain fusion to a little girl... I think it works overall - my kids ask a lot of questions and usually don't automatically accept answers, but it is always a struggle.
Geez, those examples are upsetting. But you're doing exactly the right thing :) Bring up sceptical, questioning human beings rather than mindless sheep :) Then they'll be armed and ready for everything life throws at them.
kkby · 2 points · Posted at 20:57:18 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I hope so. I'm trying not to overdo it. It seems to me that critical thinking is fine for yourself, but you should be careful applying it to others - they do not always like the results.
I once had a friend who was following some new age belief system (it was a long time ago, so I don't really remember details). That friend was discussing their belief with me, and asserted that their belief was fully logical and self consistent. Me, being young, logical, and trying to be helpful, asked for details, then proceeded to show my friend clear contradictions in their belief system. That was the end of that friendship; the friend did not deny what I showed - it was worse: they accepted it and were distraught. Apparently - they were reassured by whoever they were following that it WAS logical and self consistent, but never bothered to actually think about it deeply for themselves. That friend could not bring themselves to discuss things with me again.
I learned an important lesson that day: not everyone wants to think critically, and forcing it on people (even well meaning) could cause a lot of pain.
Now I tread carefully. If someone will invite me directly to critique their belief, I would first make sure they understand what is involved. If I am not invited, I usually just say I think differently and leave it at that.
Although you regret the outcomes of that discussion, I actually believe you probably did that friend a lot of good in the long term.
I think the take home message is, unfortunately, to not be fully frank about your thoughts to everyone, you sometimes have to keep quiet if you know it's the kind of person who won't react well to contradictions and you want to remain friendly with them.
kkby · 1 points · Posted at 01:15:29 on January 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
You could be right. I just don't know. I know that for me it is better to understand my misconceptions. I am happier feeling I thought things through. But others seem happier living in dreams. While I feel good with the path I have chosen, I am not sure I have the right to choose the path for others.
I guess kids are a special case - they are others that you are responsible for shaping to a degree - so I try my best.
Exactly right :) I feel the same way. Incidentally, I'm not too fussed about being friends with the narrow-minded or those unable to be humble if an error is pointed out to them.
I'll be polite and friendly, but I'm fine with drifting away from them.
kkby · 2 points · Posted at 03:18:38 on January 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sort of the same here, but it gets complicated with family.
My MIL who is a scientist went through a phase of believing in crystals and their 'energy'. I was polite but made it clear that without some good experimental proof I don't accept it. We agreed to disagree and later she stopped believing in that.
I had not and will not discuss it unless she brings it up. Not worth the family tension.
It's a shame there needs to be any tension, people shouldn't have so much pride, I like people who are able to be humble in the face of error much more than those who act up. But yes, you can't ditch family :)
kkby · 1 points · Posted at 16:49:13 on January 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
I found the 'agree to disagree' or 'it might be for you but it is not for me' usually works well for me in these situations.
Sadly, sometimes they feel that if they can't convince you they are right, you are somehow looking down on them. I had long conversations trying to convince me to try various alternative treatments. I usually say that I am concerned about harmful effects. They usually counter by saying it can do no harm and might help. I ask them how does it make sense that it can only have positive effect? For example, if you go to someone to 'align your energies', what if he aligns them wrong? Without an objective measurable success criteria, how can they say it does no harm?
At that point they usually agree to disagree... People don't want to think about possible harm of any treatment.
You're an incredibly reasonable person :) I hope those you interact with are encouraged to think more like you :)
kkby · 2 points · Posted at 17:10:53 on January 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Thank you. I really try.
I have changed some minds, at least enough to start questioning.
A psychologist once told me I am harming myself by testing things. I have migraines and was prescribed some medicine; I kept a log and while it felt like the medicine helped (it usually works that way...) my log showed no change. He said I should not check, and just remain with the fake feeling that things are better.
I know it works for many people, but not for me. I have to KNOW. Scientific upbringing has its downside.
You'll find out what works for you, I've had to train healthier ways of thinking into myself too :) And yeah being sceptical can have its medicinal downsides, eg. I don't think a placebo would work for me!
kkby · 2 points · Posted at 23:51:03 on January 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Placebo was shown to work even on people that know it is placebo, so there's that.
I guess my problem is that I want to BE better, not just feel better.
It's more that they're granted the right to self-expression, including their style of dress. They aren't hurting anyone by what they choose to wear and therefore there's nothing inherently wrong about it to control.
Whereas aggressively groping or feeling in someway entitled to another person's body is very much a hurtful form of expression, and so any such urge should be subject to self-discipline.
Zeliek · 3 points · Posted at 08:49:10 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Supposedly stems from ye olde Genesis in which Eve tempted Adam to bite the forbidden fruit.
Yep, that's how bloody old this line of thinking is.
Seakawn · 1 points · Posted at 12:28:53 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's how little education reform has happened, since a significant amount of people buy into mythology that old.
kkby · 1 points · Posted at 13:22:53 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wait, the Bible says the serpent deceived the woman. She then gave the apple to her man, not tempting him... So even at the source the woman was not a temptress.
People are just weird when other people's sex life is involved.
Zeliek · 1 points · Posted at 15:19:22 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes, but eve is blamed for original sin. The devil got off pretty easy on that as well.
kkby · 1 points · Posted at 16:04:01 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
If you actually read Genesis, it is clear that Eve is just being nice. She tastes the apple, finds out that it is tasty and provides wisdom, and shares with Adam. No temptation, coercion or anything else.
I'm not a believer in any way, but people blame the Bible for things that are not even there. They also ignore, of course, horrible things that ARE there, but that is another story.
Zeliek · 1 points · Posted at 16:31:20 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's one interpretation, however you seem to be sweeping under the rug the past hundred years of woman-blaming based pretty much entirely on Eve.
kkby · 1 points · Posted at 16:40:53 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm not ignoring it, I'm just reading what it actually say. People interpret things the way they want to.
People also find secret messages by analyzing phone books.
My point is that people don't need the Bible (or any religion) to make them think woman are inferior/bad/temptress etc. They just decide. Than they find ways to justify.
This whole thing in Mormonism spawned from one of their prophets giving a talk about how girls can become walking pornography for young men. It's out of control in the church right now. All they talk about is modesty and not watching porn.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 07:22:47 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'd bet a shiny new penny this church leans heavily Republican. If I'm right--and of course I am--this is yet one more example of the right's "pro-sexual assault" attitudes.
It's not the man's fault he groped you, young lady. He couldn't control himself, because you dressed like a slut in those ankle-revealing jeans and short sleeved T-Shirt!
Currently trying to mime the alphabet with my arms and a big smile
grayle · 1 points · Posted at 03:48:29 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
... I actually scrolled back up and read-sang the lyrics. Problem was halfway through there was no "Young Man!" Exclamation. Inserting in the middle now gives the song a whole new context...
enfiel · 1218 points · Posted at 16:46:30 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sure, burqas are nice, but are they really modest enough? You can almost see eyes if you look close enough at the screen. Allow me to introduce you to the paranja. Good for protecting your property your wife's modesty from all manner of staring hoodlums and Sodomites!
enfiel · 30 points · Posted at 02:51:07 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's the elefant woman!
[deleted] · 21 points · Posted at 02:56:16 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Yep. The paranja is a body covering worn by women in some parts of Central Asia. It's thankfully rare, in part because it was highly discouraged as a repressive symbol in those parts of the Soviet Union after the October Revolution. Technically, it is a burqa, although not of the typical Afghan style. It's a bit more extreme. The head covering is made of heavy horse hair.
That looks less like something you'd actually wear and more like somebody got tangled up in their bedsheets and thought "this is how in going out today."
If you are trying to channel Mennonites and Amish, the word you would be looking for is Gewöhnlichkeit (plainness) or something along those lines or Bescheidenheit (modesty.)
ook, I'm trying to repair a portal gun with a bunch of sex-doll parts, and i have to do it one-handed to keep these belushis from carting you off. The least you could do is be ashamed of your gender.
Do you want the guys poking your eyes? I think I'd rather leave some other bit of skin exposed, since apparently they're going to touch whatever they can see?
So, you should avoid Swiss cheese for several reasons, or at least get it from a reputable dealer. For one, naked women hide in it, two it can kill you!! ;)
For anyone on their work PC or not trusting the google search, it's when they take a picture of a woman wearing a bikini, then using flat colors that make the picture look like it's been overlaid with swiss cheese, they block out the bikini using the overlay until it appears like underneath the overlay is a naked woman.
Fucking seriously.
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 13:43:08 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It actually started in Japan (of course) on imageboards, which are sites like 4chan. I think the name "mormon porn" is just a joke, although I don't doubt its use for that purpose.
So this made me feel very bad for Mormon boys. After a little more thinking, I thought about the girls. They don't even know that they can masturbate, and the shame they endure if that topic is ever discussed...fuck. Makes me want to go on some anti-holy holy war.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 03:00:36 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Absolutely. Anyone who isn't taught that masturbation is important and fucking amazing from a young age is missing out on one of life's simple pleasures, as well as handicapping later sexual experiences due to not knowing oneself.
Exactly. It took me a long time to get to know myself just from being brought up southern baptist. Masturbation for boys was shameful and terrible, but female masturbation?! Not even discussed, not a possibility. I stumbled across it as I'm sure most people do in that situation, but I didn't experiment much and kept it only as a rare guilty pleasure until I was older, subsequently became atheist and started coming(ha) into my own sexuality. Even then, I struggled until my mid 20s with orgasms from my partners. It took a really invested boyfriend that truly enjoyed working on that with me to get it down and know my body. I can't imagine what even more oppression and isolation does to these girls. Ugh.
Just realising that despite the fact that the pretty guy gets the girl while the ugly one stands by smiling which infuriated me as a child, this film actually had a decent and complex message on love and sex.
I've cared for children, written sonnets, build houses, killed game and hosted princess tea parties. I am a goddamned student of life that would make da vinci pause and take note. I am a man. I am the pinnacle of millions of years of evolution and a student philosophy; I am the champion of self control and logic, I am not some sort of hormone fueled rape machine. Fuck you mormons.
That's natural for normal people. It's not rehabilitation.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 06:33:57 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You should be right, but rape happens too often to just sit and do nothing - we need education to help solving the issue through prevention rather than intervention after the fact.
Rape is not the default urge because empathy prevents us wanting to hurt others. But Sex is the default urge, and if you are completely unaware of what constitutes valid consent, then your urge for sex and your ignorance of consent may lead you to rape people and feel like it's no big deal.
But for most people, as soon as you tell them that what they are doing for sex is actually rape, they stop pretty fast.
Like, My grandmother and grandfather engaged in lots of marital rape because neither came from a culture where wives are allowed to say "no", so my grandmother never said "No" and my grandfather never asked "do you want sex tonight, or is it just me?" and as a result my grandmother had lots of sex she didn't want, and my grandfather had lots of sex where his partner wasn't giving informed consent (how can her consent be informed if she wasn't informed that she has a right to not consent?).
That doesn't make my grandfather a rapist, his default urge was sex, he was just not educated on what healthy sex is.
This is the problem with a lot of people, male and female, who are denied proper sex education.
orrosta · 1 points · Posted at 05:44:01 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Rape is not the default urge because empathy prevents us wanting to hurt others.
I'm just not so sure that that kind of empathy doesn't have to be taught. Sure, most people have an innate potential for empathy, but the idea that humans outside of your own tribe and caste are valid targets of empathy doesn't seem to have crossed anyone's mind until the start of the axial age around 800BC. It seems pretty clear that in many times and cultures men saw women as property and the spoils of victory rather than something to empathize with. I agree that when modern men like our grandfathers learn how their actions are harming women they are likely to experience remorse and change their ways, but that is because they were raised in a culture of empathy. Universal empathy is a discovery that humans had to learn.
That most people don't go around trying to rape people as a way to satisfy sexual and closeness needs
orrosta · 1 points · Posted at 07:57:57 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That doesn't necessarily mean that they were not taught. When you say that rape is not the default urge, that seems like a claim about the innate nature of men. It's a possibility that people do no go around trying to rape others simply because of the law, or because they were raised to believe that it was bad. Even if no one ever says "Rape is bad, don't do it", children can easily learn culturally appropriate behavior from discourse between adults. Are you saying that young men who grew up in our culture do not need to be taught not to rape because they have already adopted our values (and rape is antithetical to values like universal empathy and justice), or are you saying that young men who grow up in any culture and at any time know instinctively not to rape? Or something else?
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 16:10:07 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You do have to teach young men (and all children) to keep their hands to themselves.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 22:19:15 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm not sure I like replacing "all women are whores by default" with "all men are rapists by default."
Calling it "rape" misses the point. People are inbuilt with the desire to have sex, which is especially amplified by testosterone. What we don't come inbuilt with is a clear sense of when its appropriate to act on that desire. Sure, it's pretty obvious that sleeping with your wife after a romantic date is different from forcing yourself on a stranger in an alley, but what about leaning in to kiss a close female friend that you're alone with? That could be awesome or totally creepy depending completely on a whole lot of factors. Some of which you aren't just born with an nuanced, intuitive understanding of.
When people say "control your urges", what they really mean is "learn to recognize when a situation is mutually romantic and when it isn't". Saying you don't desire to rape (or harass) someone just means you wouldn't act in a way you knew was inappropriate. That's like saying you wouldn't do something "bad". It says nothing about your ability to tell the difference between "good" and "bad", or between mutual consent and harassment, or even between sex and rape. And since you're not born with the ability to get that right in all cases, it's the responsibility of society to teach you as much as it is your responsibility to learn.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:05:08 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It sounds like your talking more about learning social skills than control. If you know it's going to hurt someone badly, you're not going to do it unless you're a sociopath or psychopath. Knowing it'll hurt is something else, but that's not a question of controlling urges, is it?
You're jumping to an extreme again. You're right that most people don't need to question this, because we're inbuilt with empathy. Again, the issue lies mostly in the less obvious cases, where we might hurt someone without realizing it. And yeah, it is exactly social skills. Social skills are largely about self-control - training yourself to recognize a variety of social scenarios and changing your behavior accordingly. For example, you might remind yourself to be polite and not curse in the presence of older family members.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 18:28:21 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's not my intention to be "extreme," I thought we were all talking about rape and sexual assault, which is extremely bad behavior I think we can all agree. That's what the OP is about, right? It seems to imply that any bare skin is fair game for groping. Something less than that, like trying for a kiss that isn't wanted or holding someone's hand, could certainly happen to someone who doesn't realize what's going on, and some of us need extra help learning about social niceties. I don't believe that's the case with groping, assault, and rape. Normal, healthy people will only do that if they're in a culture that encourages it specifically. Otherwise we're going to treat others the way we want to be treated and know innately that it's not ok to violate people. No one needs to be taught, specifically, not to kill people or stomp on their heads or steal their cars. We learn to share and not to hit as toddlers. So if all you're saying is that kids need to learn social skills, I agree. But the little poem I responded to initially seemed to imply that men have innate urges to rape or violate women, which I don't agree with. I've never wanted to hurt someone like that and I don't think that's anything special.
That's a fine sentiment, but young ladies don't generally show excessive amounts of skin (as young men don't, either). It's trashy girls who show excessive skin, and they don't deserve proper men. They deserve the assholes they get.
This is not an endorsement of sexual assault, but it's not like guys walk around in speedos all day, and some girls might as well be.
Is this your class? I remember being forced to take seminary. Of course, that was in Utah, so it was during school hours instead of before. My favorite memory is calling our instructor an asshole for saying the AIDS epidemic in Africa is because they don't believe in God.
[deleted] · 150 points · Posted at 18:21:49 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nope, it was over in /r/exmormon but I remember shit like this from when I was a kid.
Also went to school in Utah. I remember how they got around the whole "separation of state and church" by having the seminary just off campus, but still a stones throw away from the high school.
I live in eastern Washington, and they have the same set up here. All the high schools have a seminary across the street from the school and the kids go during school hours. I always wonder how they allow that and what the kids end up missing in school to attend the seminary
Actually, our high school had a lot of rocks around, being near a rather mountainous area.
Because of this, it was kind of a past-time to grab small rocks and throw them into the nearby valley, which was behind the high school.
So to answer your question, yes. I, along with many others threw lots of stones. I'm sure if I aimed at the Seminary building, I could have hit it, because it was right next to the valley.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 03:59:29 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Orem high grad here.
You stepped out a side door of the school and walked 10 feet right into the seminary building.
Zset · 58 points · Posted at 20:27:45 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Forced? By parents? Or societal problems for those who don't take it?
Ahh, the dirty looks and comments when people in school found out you don't take seminary.
Forced by parents, until my senior year. After I just stopped going and pointed out they couldn't make me and couldn't come up with a punishment worse, they gave up.
iambud · 25 points · Posted at 23:14:22 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah, they finally kicked me out because I wasn't going. Sad day.
[deleted] · 15 points · Posted at 23:43:28 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
I didn't wait for them to kick me out, I just took off at 16 (it was the minimum legal age in that area) and rented a place. It wasn't even that rough for the first year or so.
Parents are Jehovah's witnesses, and they wouldn't let me interact with anyone who wasn't also a JW.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 16:42:58 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yep, my mom would threaten to kick me and my sister out almost on a daily basis. I had just finished school and didn't have a job yet, but my sister did, and she was paying most of the bills. So my sister asked if I wanted to go with her. I said hell yes, so we went out, told my mom, then went to her new apartment.
My mom's chilled a lot, but damn it was bad back then.
As much as a teen may disagree with his/her parents, the day they kick them out over this disagreement isn't a good day.
I feel terrible for anyone in such a position.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 16:41:06 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well yes, it sucks, but if you've got shitty parents, I would think you'd want away from them.
Similar story but my mom forced me to go to BYU (the Mormon college that enforces all the weird ass rules) said she would cut me off at 18 or I could go and she would pay for school. Well, I went to college, hated it. Seriously wanted to die.
Upside: 3 years in I met an amazing group of girls and we would hang out almost every day. The first time I drank or smoked weed was with them. I have so many amazing memories of that blissful moment when didn't feel chained to something. Fell in love with one of them too, until she moved to a different state :(
iambud · 2 points · Posted at 03:36:02 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's kind of like my friends who were forced to go on missions or their parents would disown them. Heaven forbid they look bad in front of their church members... Hey at least they got a car out of it.
My parents wanted me to go when I was a Freshman, because I hadn't told them I was an atheist yet, because I wasn't still sure, but once I actually brought it up with them they were very understanding.
My parents may be Mormon but they're still great people. Very open-minded.
You were quite lucky. I had told my parents by the time I was a freshman. I got the "deep down, we know you still believe" and "it's just a phase" bullshit. Forced to continue with meetings, youth activities, and seminary for quite some time. Eventually, my parents left the church too, and have realized their mistakes.
torypls · 1 points · Posted at 23:34:58 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
For Utah Mormons the preferred school to go to for college is BYU. Seminary grades are taken into account to get accepted into BYU. So many people are "forced" by parents but because of that.
fezzuk · 32 points · Posted at 23:03:36 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Quite sure Africa is very much a Christian content. Us Europeans imported it while exporting people.
Just being Christian isn't good enough for Mormons. They are gods one true church on the earth. The Book of Mormon talks about all other churches being the church of the devil and the whore of all the earth.
While importing the Africans that other Africans exported*
fezzuk · 1 points · Posted at 00:44:41 on January 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Some one had to bring that up. Yeah slavery was a large part of African and European culture going back long before even the roman empire. However they were usually concidered serves and not less worth than baĺlist as the Europeans at the time treated them
Before that slavery was a form of employment we turned it in to making people worthless.
Context is key
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:25:27 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I remember I had to take seminary before school then had to drive a half hour to get to school where i had my super Mormon dad as a teacher, yeah i was pretty popular lol... When I moved in with my mom for high school my dad tried to pay me $50 a month to go to seminary, yeah that's how you work religion. That really did happen tooI would never lie on the internet.
Attended high school in rural Utah. We had 7 class periods a day but only needed credits from 6 to stay on track to graduate. Those who took seminary did not have a cushion if they failed a class where I did not take seminary I took a classes that gave credit.
Tl;dr class schedule allotted for seminary during school hours but not taking it allowed me to graduate early.
Comoshi · 1 points · Posted at 15:36:15 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I was talking with a guy in Swaziland who said the same thing. It was so sad.
So does this teacher think that because he sees a sub-station, high voltage transformer that it's OK to touch it? What about a police crime scene? Can he go up and grab the nipples of a shirtless guy?
[deleted] · 158 points · Posted at 18:35:41 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
As a guy who is frequently shirtless in public and often disappointed by how little action my nipples get, I'm gonna go ahead and vote yes.
For that matter, does he think that you can just do whatever you want with any exposed flesh on a woman? Like make out with strangers, or hold people's hands without permission/ any sort of prior relationship? If inciting desire is the crime, rather than touching people without asking, shouldn't we go whole-hog and just say it's always the woman's fault? I mean, teenagers can get aroused by a stiff breeze, so surely they have the right to rip off clothing if it's in any way tight or revealing.
Reading this while sitting at my volunteer shift at the ER. The Swing attending sitting next to me all night happened to mention being a Mormon. Thank god I've got this labcoat...
Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
What worries me is that they either think we're all raping a different girl every night (I live in Florida - I see a lot of skin), or they think of themselves as some deranged off-shoot of man who would be raping girls every night without American Jesus. Either way, they're* fucked, right?
It reminds me of that rapist's breakdown in one of the Airplane movies. "THEY'RE ALL ASKING FOR IT! THEY'RE ALL ASKING FOR IT ALL THE TIME!!!" Except this is disturbingly real.
I was raised by the "men only want one thing and will do anything to get it" rule. It really hurt my perception of men and I found it really hard to have a relationship, in fear of getting raped. It really fucked me up. I have since lost that train of thought, and I realize most men are actually really cool and really good friends.
bexyrex · 2 points · Posted at 01:51:19 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Shit I thought the same thing. And now I'm in college and men hit on me on the street and I'm like really?? Really??? Fuck you I'm going to class not to the bar! Go buy a fleshlight and stop making me uncomfortable in public. I always glare and walk with purpose just so fuck boys don't fuck with me.
Now if someone says wow you look really nice. Or your hair looks very pretty, that I can stand, I pay people complements in public all the time. That doesn't make me feel like an object because I got dressed to look good which also feels good.
But that hey mama, or hey girl lemme holla at you, or that hey turn around for me baby shit that's gross. And I feel so unsafe too. I've been followed by like three very large men in broad daylight talking about my body. I actually had to get on the phone with my friend (now current boyfriend) until I made it to the bus I was so nervous.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 01:58:15 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Same here. I've seen a therapist and it's gotten a bit better but I fear it'll be there the rest of my life.
Wait, you actually based your self worth on the fact that you were never sexually assaulted? That is the very definition of unexpected outcomes. Truly sorry that you were raised that way.
"men only want one thing and will do anything to get it"
And while they aren't getting it, they try to distract themselves with various hobbies, like designing buildings, building rockets, making surgeries, producing lumber, fishing, welding, and lots of other unimportant stuff.
It's just so fucking devoid of logic it annoys the shit out of me. I mean legitimately how stupid do you have to be think that women need to dress in a certain way that you approve of in order to not deserve to be touched by you against their will?
I hate to use the #NotAllMormons, but I never heard anything like this in the Churches/Seminary I went to back when I was actually made to go to them. Probably just some crazy people with some weird fringe views. I mean, you can argue that Mormonism is crazy anyway, but at least not typically this kind of crazy.
My mom is Mormon and I'm atheist, and I've never heard of anything like this, and my mom (and everyone in her church AFAIK) would find this really fucking weird.
kmcg27 · 23 points · Posted at 20:57:20 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wouldn't want them to teach guys restraint.... Nope make us women cover up. Assholes...
No, they teach boys that they're irredeemable rapists and murderers who, but for the grace of God, would normally be going around raping and pillaging like a filthy atheist.
The victim blaming is just icing on the cake.
I want to be sure I'm making this clear to you: Fundamentalist Christians and Mormons (among others) teach children that they already are rapists.
Children who don't grow up in this kind of environment are taught that that kind of violence is unacceptable. They aren't taught restraint, rather that those behaviors are socially repugnant.
And guess who ends up being a rapist?
No, it's the fundies.
[deleted] · 0 points · Posted at 05:01:49 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
kmcg27 · 1 points · Posted at 13:58:02 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not what I meant at all. It works both ways. My brother was never sat down and taught restraint, but was taught what any person should be taught, respect of other people no matter how they look or who they are. Though I find it sad that the minute a woman talks about male restraint it's "feminism." I don't identify as anything, just feel religion puts most of the pressure on the female. I grew up in a Catholic house and the church never really told my brother many rules but I, as a woman, had a ton. It was bs.
As an ex-mormon: yep, this is about right. I don't know that I ever saw this concept so clearly written out, but standards of "modest dress" are only applied to women. Men are assumed to be raging sex-lunatics who cannot control themselves. Women are pure and asexual until marriage, and then have the fun responsibility of rearing children until they can no longer produce them.
Related anecdote: a Mormon friend of mine would throw pool parties at his house in high school. His mother would throw oversized t-shirts on any girls who showed up in anything more revealing than one-piece bathing suits. If the girls did not comply, they were asked to leave. The guys, though, nothing. No dress policies, no creepy supervision, nothing.
and then have the fun responsibility of rearing children until they can no longer produce them
But don't worry, because after all your babymaking parts shrivel up you get to look forward to the afterlife, where you'll get to rear more and more children forever and ever until the end of time itself.
Not really though, because by the time they're done having children they're becoming grandmothers (if they've done things right, you know, married at 18 and started popping out kids, and brought their kids up to do the same), so they've got to help raise their grandkids. They have, at most, a 2-5 year break from changing diapers.
Ha, that is true. I suppose I'm not exactly sure the nitty-gritty details of celestial child-rearing, but I was referring to a 40-year break from vaginal childbirth.
Anyway, I imagine being a grandparent is a lot of the positive aspects of parenting without a lot of the negative aspects (though you're right about the diapers).
[deleted] · 12 points · Posted at 21:52:09 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I have long time Mormon friends. (magic underwear and everything) Women bear and raise children; men earn. They're kinda like Gypsies.
I was Mormon until I was 12. We had a swim party prior to going to Young Women's camp, so that they could make sure our swim wear was modest enough. (High enough neckline and not too revealing above the thighs). I remember later being at that camp and walking to the swim area wearing my Celestial Kingdom approved one piece and long to the knee shorts. I got stopped on the way by a leader and told that I was too revealing and needed to put a shirt on until I got to the swim area.
Are you sure it's not a Regional thing or something? I come from a (half) Mormon family and I've never heard of anything like this at all. In fact, all the Mormons I know would find this really weird.
It could be a regional thing. This occurred in the American South, and the family in my story is a very well-to-do, large Utah family. Having been raised in Utah (where 40% of Mormons live), I can honestly say that it would surprise me that many Mormons there would find this weird. Congregations in the Northeast and around major cities tend to be more liberal, but bikinis and the like are still not kosher. Here's a 1983 article that has undoubtedly affected LDS swimwear culture, and here is a more recent article that shows some progress is occurring.
My first paragraph was blunter than the Mormon church would ever personally say, but very accurately represents their doctrine and policies concerning women. Straight from the LDS website:
Men and women have different but equally valued roles. Just as a woman cannot conceive a child without a man, so a man cannot fully exercise the power of the priesthood to establish an eternal family without a woman.
Women come to earth with unique spiritual gifts and propensities. This is particularly true when it comes to children and families and the well-being and nurturing of others.
I am actually fairly confident that most Mormons would not think this is really weird (though they would object to my wording). Some more progressive Mormons strongly disagree with this kind of thinking, but few would actually deny that this is the prevalent culture within Mormonism.
Mormons don't really talk about these doctrines, policies, and cultural norms outside of church. The image they portray (kind, happy, family-centric, albeit kind of weird in their worship) is not completely false, but again, Mormons don't go around talking about controversial aspects of their religion. They want to convert literally everybody–their end-goal is to spread their religion to every corner of the earth.
I think a lot of men are terrified of women. Look at gamergate and the SJW stuff. There are some horrific things being said by people who aren't even trying to stay anonymous, simply because they are concerned about 'journalistic ethics'?
OK, you're right. Make it journalistic ethics without quotes, my point remains...
(I only picked those because they are the most apparent sign at the moment of sexual abuse being threatened against countless women, daily, most of whom are just trying to do what they want in a field that men seem bizarrely threatened by the idea of them being in. It's perverse, and it's sad. And I can't fathom the kind of cowards who are so insecure as to belittle another person so much, let alone cause them actual fear even if they might have genuinely made a mistake. Seriously. "Can we NOT"? You mean can we not question it continuing because it might have started out a bit muddy? Seriously.)
The point being that both sides are to blame for this stupidity. Gamergate fucked up by going into harassment mode when it initially blew up. Instead of, you know, being the bigger person and trying to open a dialogue and sort everything out, SJWs retaliated with more harassment and outright lying. It doesn't help that they rally around known liars and pot-stirrers that are just in it for the money.
Nope, they don't give a shit about women in particular. It's just handy to make people feel guilty about everything to make them stick with religion. Making all men believe they are born rapist and only through the religious teaching can overcome it is very good for religious business. It's pretty much like saying men have an incurable disease and only hospital X has a drug that can prolong their lives given their condition.
I love how religion basically makes males out to be completely at the whim of their primal urges, unable to exert even the slightest bit of control over themselves. And yet somehow males should obviously be in charge of everything.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 04:45:01 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, of course. That is what God intended with his divine plan, Dummy!
Dumb fucking logic especially since we all show our faces everyday yet I somehow manage to go about my day without punching your bare naked nose into your fucking brain.
812many · 3 points · Posted at 22:56:12 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
My first thought, too. I mean really, you'll poke someone's eye out!
[deleted] · 8 points · Posted at 22:13:31 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sex has changed since I got married. Is this what the kids are doing now or is this a euphemism for pounded pus, rubbing uglys, laying pipe and so on?
I enjoy the feeling of vindication when seeing these things. Leaving that church was hard at first, but now looks like the most obvious thing in the world.
Go read, "Under the Banner of Heaven" these people are like the American Taliban.
[deleted] · 50 points · Posted at 17:49:23 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I've read it, but it's important to make the distinction between the LDS and FLDS church. FLDS? Absolutely the American Taliban. LDS? Kind of just dicks, but definitely not Taliban level.
The difference is that the LDS church is better at revising its doctrine to fit society's definition of acceptable and whitewashing the rest. If they were as fundamental as the FLDS they'd have less followers and more legal attention, which isn't as profitable.
mytroc · 15 points · Posted at 20:13:52 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think it's also important to make the distinction between the Taliban and Al Qaeda: the Taliban lived quite peacefully alongside non-believers but once they got enough power, all their crazies jumped over into Al Qaeda and started killing all infidels.
Citation needed! My understanding is the taliban was brutal to anyone who didn't follow their strict sharia law.
joycamp · 1 points · Posted at 07:49:35 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The Taliban were religious nut jobs independent of Al Qeada.
JakeDC · 1 points · Posted at 01:47:53 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Y'all Queda
[deleted] · 34 points · Posted at 20:30:31 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Typical backward, backwater, religious thinking. Combine this lovely specimen of dangerous thought with the fact that religious people also seem to think without god we would all be murderers and sodomites and you distinctly get the impression that truly religious people are just maniac rapists.
If you really can't control yourself except by the grace of god, then you are probably better off living in solitude as a monk or in a ditch. Sorry if that seems harsh (not really tho).
j0nny5 · 3 points · Posted at 04:04:31 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I've worked with more than one Born Again Christian. One guy in particular bragged about all of the underage girls he "banged" during his Navy service in the Philippines, how he got injury leave for jumping off a jeep after splitting a 8 ball with some buddies, just all this unsolicited bragging about shitty things he did. In the next breath, he'd ask me if he could "pray on" me getting a raise I was going to ask for. After I politely declined, he stopped spooling me Cat 6 cable (we were wiring new switches and patch panels, I was up a ladder pushing cable through a conduit) and proceeded to close his eyes and put his arms out and start into this fucking loud schpiel about "Jesus our lord and loving savior, bless this man and show him your light through his sinful ways blah blah blah". The hypocrisy of those folks is astounding, and yes, some of them more or less admit that "finding Christ" keeps them "from falling to sin".
If it wasn't for this imaginary "hot place", and potentially angering a giant sky man, they'd be doing the horrible shit they'd been doing before their "conversion". I don't even.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 12:49:12 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Then when you look at the catholic church it's easy to see even in some of the highest positions they still don't keep to their morality. If anything some religion is a convenient excuse to avoid guilt, once you believe you are forgiven you don't actually even have to apologize or make your mistakes right.
j0nny5 · 1 points · Posted at 20:30:21 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
12 years of Catholic school here. You are 100% correct.
They're not saying rape is okay. They're just saying that you're already a rapist, and you can't do much about that unless women cover up their sexy, sexy ankles.
A minor distinction, but an important one, IMO.
What you're seeing here is rape culture, not rape apology.
What you're seeing here is rape culture, not rape apology.
It's not rape culture, lol. It's religious indoctrination. Specifically, forcing people to believe they are somehow internally flawed to evoke constant feeling of guilt. Afterwards, the church will present itself and its services as the only way out. Pretty much spiritual racket.
After all, if it WAS rape culture, then what would have changed? Men are told they are rapey, and they say "yeah, we know" — and go on with their rapey lives, that's what would have happened in a rape culture. The very fact that such proclamation evokes guilt and shame is the best proof there is NO rape culture.
This is just wrong. That reasoning sounds like it came straight from the isis playbook. This must be why they claim the only thing keeping women from being raped all of the time is the bible says not to do it. This is just treating women as if they're animals, and not Human Beings.
Technically we are "just animals", but fortunately we are animals with sophisticated brains, and we need to learn and be encouraged to use them well. The entire problem with this primitive thinking is it treats men like stupid animals too, instead of teaching them how and why they need to exercise self restraint. Of course we will often want to touch the women, that is natural and true. What defines us humans is that we can learn to moderate our own behavior, we can learn to only touch others when they want us to, and we can learn to listen to their words so that we ask nicely first, and do not proceed when the answer is NO. Learning that level of self restraint and responsibility is a minimum standard for civilized behavior, and sadly many of these religions would rather teach barbaric standards.
It's infuriating and frustrating
When you're a regular guy
But get lectured like you're liable to assault
Any pretty girl that catches your eye
So please, it doesn't matter if you've got an incredible bust
And an ass that fills my mind with thoughts of passion and lust
Since I'm not a degenerate scumbag without a brain in his head
I'll just go home and watch some porno instead
jerslan · 1 points · Posted at 05:31:28 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So not only does this poem blame female rape victims for dressing too scandalous, but it also implies that men just have a natural urge for molestation. Such a weird, fucked up poem.
[deleted] · 9 points · Posted at 23:03:41 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Boys can not be domesticated, it's true! They're just animals with no control over their filthy sex penises. You must hide your shameful fleshy prostitute's shoulders or all boys in your class will go all Cologne on you.
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 04:52:09 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah, and you deserved it for being attractive!! Those poor boys. May God have mercy on their souls, after you tempted them by existing!
In recent years the church has realized this policy has been devastating since the truth is easily available to everyone, and people rightfully feel deceived when they get the whole story. That's the theory on why they've been regularly publishing official essays admitting a lot of things that have been avoided: http://mormonessays.com/
Thanks, I've looked into Mormon apologetics before, along with, if I recall correctly, the CES(?) letter and online project. It's amazing the mental gymnastics they have to perform to hold these demonstrably false beliefs, especially when it comes to pre-Columbian American history.
Who the fuck thinks that boys are automatically going to physically leap on top of a girl just because she shows a little skin? Oh, right, the raping pedophiles that make up that cult.
I didn't know some Mormons thought that. I thought that was other fundie christian branches like where I accidentally ended up for private school for a whole day.
No, no, your seminary teacher was preaching false doctrine. Every good mormon knows that what really happened was that when Jehovah was building the Earth, he just reached into the bargain bin of parts from other worlds that weren't being used anymore and just kinda smushed them all together, and the dinosaur bones were aliens from those other worlds that got scooped up in the process. You know, like when you create a giant ball of all the scraps of Play-Doh and somehow there's a liopleurodon tooth suddenly stuck in there. Happens to the best of us.
[deleted] · 8 points · Posted at 22:03:25 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
This cult should be disbanded.
[deleted] · 7 points · Posted at 22:32:23 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 10:36:49 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Feeling so guilty about sexuality, masturbation specifically, that you want to kill yourself because you'll never be good enough. Losing 6 different friends to suicide in 2 years, etcetera.
Lone peak highschool, if you want verifiable sources.
I feel like you'd lose the urge trying to figure out how to tie the other hand down.
[deleted] · 7 points · Posted at 21:26:42 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus said blame the victims! Not much different here than fundamentalist Islam.
obievil · 6 points · Posted at 21:40:43 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
sarcasm Because this isn't promoting rape culture at all.. nope perfectly innocent.
bexyrex · 5 points · Posted at 01:41:53 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's rapey.... Even outside a religious crazy context if someone wrote me a poem like that and sent it to me I'd feel fucking threatened and harassed. I'm sorry if you don't cover up ma'am I'm gonna be tempted to fuck you because I have no self control. I mean come on. That's fucking victim blaming at its finest
[deleted] · 7 points · Posted at 03:17:13 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This is just small scale of what Muslims in the middle east learn - temptation is bad, so avoid it because you don't want to give in to your base urges, and if you do it isn't your fault for having no self control...
How fucking shameful. We are not animals, we shouldn't be teaching our children that they are no better than that.
[deleted] · 5 points · Posted at 03:28:00 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Crazy how laws don't apply to men in religion. Sparkly things make me wanna touch the but by some religious law my hand should be cut off if I take something that's not mine! But hey... Patriarchy, amiright?
My presumption, based on my own experience with the utter stupidity that is LDS seminary, is that it's a song called "You Have Two Big Strong Hands", and that the young men are supposed to sing this verse. The girls' verse is probably all about how their big strong hands should be used to make me a damn sandwich.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:27:56 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh... Man and I thought normal christian seminary was bad. At least they never sang rape songs. At least, not that I knew of.
ruca316 · 5 points · Posted at 01:16:05 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What. The. Fuck.
THIS is why I became an atheist.
Well, not entirely but this shit had something to do with it.
clearly this must be why they hate gays. if straight men get to think and act that way towards women, wouldn't it follow that gay men are entitled to act the same way towards other men? =P
i find that's actually a bit of a recurring theme with me. say something that makes for both a decent joke but at the same time kind of profound. somehow i think people "get it" far less than i'd hope. truth be told i really do think this is what is actually going on. i'm sure if you asked any of them, they'd all point to scripture, but deep down they're actually acting out of fear of this exact scenario.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 05:19:43 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wow... what a concept! You may be on to something there. ;)
This is a really good thought. Sadly I think it's probably just because the bible says gays should die. Religious people generally don't think deeply about the taboo pieces of scripture.
I've never understood why women have to cover up so men don't touch. If the problem is the touch, then perhaps you should wear hand cuffs dude. It's this male attitude that upests me most as a man. Keep your hands to yourself dickbags....
compounding that, there's this cultural attitude that certain types of clothing and dress and makeup are "attractive" and "tempt" men, but... many guys I know (myself included) have different tastes, and the typical "oh she looks like slut! let's pass judgement!" stereotype just doesn't really do it for me. If a women dresses like a modest librarian from the 60s, and that's what turns someone on, was she "asking for it" then too?
PSA: if they have seminary where you live, you can use it as a "free" period. They're not allowed to give school credit, so if they offer it during normal periods this means you can get enough credits to graduate with a period off every semester. In high school my friends and I would get out of school everyday at 1:45 it was glorious, praise be to the Latter Day Saints.
My school's registrar didn't allow it. It was called "release time", so technically you were released from the school, but they treated it like a non-credit elective and would only let you sign up for it if you were registered for seminary. So the non-mormon kids (or mormon kids who didn't take seminary, which was practically nonexistent) would graduate with 4 more credit hours than the ones who took seminary. It was fucked up.
EDIT: I just remembered - I think the other option was that they could sign up for "release time" if they were doing work-study or an internship. But they had to have something, they couldn't just be set free.
Was it an open campus? For example were you allowed to drive to Wendy's or McDonalds for lunch? Ours was just called "release time" too but we had an open campus so they couldn't keep us there.
Yeah, it was an open campus. But they still wouldn't let you sign out of school for a class period if you didn't have a legitimate "excuse", like seminary or an internship.
Ah that's shitty. My school was pretty lax about a lot of stuff, my sophomore year there wasn't even an attendance policy (if you can pass the class, doesn't matter how much you miss). They implemented mandatory "make-up time" my junior year though so we figured out pretty quick how to game "release time".
They look like big, good, strong hands. Don't they? I always thought that's what they were. My little friends... I couldn't hold on to them... I failed... They look like big, good, strong hands. Don't they?
Children don't get the choice to believe in man made stupid dipshit crap like oh, Mormonism. The problem is, it effects them. It molds them.
What about the millions of kids in the middle east who just memorize the Koran every day instead of you know, useful shit that can apply to their life?
These kids should be in woodshop, home ec, auto repair, or even friggin basket weaving. All of those things will help them in life. This will hurt them in life.
What a joke, it's not like they aren't going to have 7 kids in 2 years when they marry. Jeez.
"Oh, you wanna wear that skirt? Sorry, Johnny won't be able to control himself, and even though that's his issue, it's now yours as well because you had the audacity to come out of your mothers womb as a girl."
Hey! Mormon here... Just want to say that I remember seeing some older people talk about "modesty" as a teenager and I remember the emphasis was more on how you want people to think of you, thus you should dress to reflect how you would like to be respected, for your brain or your body.
BUT!!!
I do actually remember occasionally this type of logic creeping in on a "Oh and women, you hurt men and make it difficult for them to obey the "Law of Chastity" if you show too much skin. In other words, women are seductresses by nature if that's what you can get out of it.
BS, I agree.
Fortunately, the leaders have instructed teachers to avoid that type of educational approach in recent years, but it seems like here, the message has not fully gotten across, sadly.
But I am right there with you guys that this is not just cringeworthy, but fairly offensive, and I am just saying you'll find a fair share of Mormons that disagree with this teacher.
Side note for fun: It always seemed like the Women leaders that preached the whole concept of how men can't control themselves if women show too much skin. I don't remember any of my male youth leaders saying that, but I do remember female speakers mentioning it.
The problem is that the older people still hold this mentality and they are still the ones in power. It is why that woman got excommunicated when she asked for equal treatment in the clergy.
If there were younger peoples that grew up in the modern world rather than the 1950s things wouldnt be as harsh. Most of the religious people are older and it is younger fighting against that.
Now, to keep this in perspective, I dont think very highly of mormonism, but Id much rather have a person such as you in society then assclowns that put up things like this.
In my seminary class we had Donny Osmand come perform Soldier of Love before his comeback...obviously they didn't show thr NSFS music video. Guess we had a liberal seminary class.
I can't believe people teach this shit. This is just placing the blame for rape on the victim not the perpetrator.
Seriously how fucking stupid. I am disgusted this goes on in our society.
I'm an atheist, who grew up in a mormon family (my parents are very understanding and accepting of my decision, my stepdad isn't mormon either) and there was nothing like this in Seminary when I went. It's more of a curriculum that teachers can make themselves than anything the church itself teaches, so I wouldn't say this represents all Mormons. Then again, I live on the East coast, and most Mormons I've met here seem to be more laid back about their religion, which is pretty cool
Teach men to control themselves and show respect. Don't tell women that they should be uncomfortable showing their body.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 05:26:39 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Aw... but self restraint requires effort! Think about those poor boys and their testosterone. The girls do not have all of that testosterone, so it is only sensible that they bear the burden in order to support those poor boys! Supporting the boys is also good practice for the time when it is their divinely appointed duty to be "help mates" to the master of their households! Do you even scripture?
This is so disrespectful. Like men can't control themselves, what bullshit. Maybe some men can't, but why should everyone suffer because a few men can't control themselves!
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 05:31:17 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because divinely inspired scripture makes it clear that women are not people. They are property, like donkeys and pigs and such.
So............... how about every part of you that is showing I get to kick? Better wear long pants!
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 06:05:47 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This is really getting to me. The first problem I had with this (I had several) immediately after seeing it is that the statement "You have two big strong hands" suggests the power is with the man, yet the poem below states the power is with the woman. Apparently, a man can touch whatever he likes, and a woman must cover herself because this is a just and predictable action? If a man is stronger than a woman (theoretically--this isn't always the case), he can do whatever he wants, and so covering oneself to avoid distraction would then be futile; why not teach that a man should exercise self-responsibility and control?
A second question: how do men and women within a Mormon community relate to each other? I don't mean actual relationships, as in romantic or platonic, but how they interact--if a woman is taught, for example, that not dressing conservatively would provoke other men, what about men? Are they of the attitude they have the right to touch whatever is visible to them? (Even the face?)
so if this statement is taken literally, mormons think you can walk up to any girl in the street and touch her face or her hands? even if she was muslim, she wouldnt be wearing gloves right?
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 06:48:53 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Again with the 'boys just can't control themselves ' bs
My best friend and I have known each other 15 years. I grew up Jehovah's Witness she was considered my bad influence purely because she didn't share the faith. I left at 17, and she converted to Mormonism at 23. Now I'm her bad influence. But 15 years we have survived, though we don't always see eye to eye on things, like this topic and the crazy things mormans do, we love each other.
I've noticed that the religions with the most devout, fervent followers always have rules in place about how women must dress modestly, and that men will basically do whatever they want to them if they don't. Making someone wear a certain type of outfit out of fear of rape is ridiculous to start with, but do the men in these religions not have any morals or self control? How about focusing on teaching them that just because a girl isn't covered up, doesn't mean you have the right to fuck her if you want to. So many people act like animals and use their religion as an excuse. It's a crutch in every aspect of their lives.
As a young Christian woman who was oblivious to the sexual signals I was apparently giving off, my efforts to dress modestly ended when I realized that men would undress me with their eyes no matter what I wear. Once, when wearing a shapeless bag-dress that went up to my neck and down to my ankles, a man twice my age told me I looked sexy. And he wanted to shower with me. And as he was someone I otherwise trusted, he got way farther than he should have. Well, shit. I didn't realize I was coming on so strong. Cue eternal fear of hugging anyone ever again.
Go shove your finger up his nose. This is explicitly giving you permission to do so. They will complain, They will also try to say that this example is somehow different, but it will not be clear how.
Pentameter's broken, last 2 lines are 1 syllable too long.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:49:26 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I used to watch the Shaytards videos a lot but haven't kept up in a couple years. I know they are pretty devout Mormons and always wondered if they thought like this.
I was raised Mormon and graduated from Mormon seminary. As much as I despise the church, I think that a lot of these comments here are a little uninformed.
In no way am I defending the Mormon church, but I really think this slide is bullshit. If it is actually from someone's seminary class, the teacher could probably get in trouble for deviating from the seminary lesson book. Seminary lessons, like pretty much everything else in the church, are meant to be uniform. The idea is that you could go to any meetinghouse anywhere and get the same doctrine and pretty much the same experience. You do not deviate from the lesson book, especially when you're being paid by the church to teach from it as is the case for seminary teachers. Lay people do often inject their own bullshit into their lessons, talks, etc, but that is not something you are supposed to do, so to me, the fault for that is not on the church itself, but on those individuals.
With all that in mind, this slide is definitely NOT part of the seminary curriculum that I ever saw and gender specific stuff was never a part of seminary anyways since it was co-ed. As far as I know, this isn't at all how my sisters or female friends were taught about modesty. The approach was more like "your body is a temple and you should respect it by not drinking, smoking, getting tattoos, having premarital sex, or dressing 'immodestly'. Immodesty is also taboo because you should avoid even the appearance of evil (i.e. dressing immodestly, whether you're whoring around or not, is the appearance of sin). The message I got was that avoiding sex was the responsibility of both genders and for young men, the emphasis was on respecting women, avoiding sexual thoughts, actions, etc. and going on a mission before you even think about marriage.
They also teach you that you and you alone are accountable for you actions. If a young man molested or raped a girl, what she was wearing would be irrelevant. Any victim blaming in that may occur in such a case would not be at all doctrinal. So while they are guilty of brainwashing kids and repressing everyone's sexuality, it's not like they are calling for the stoning of women who get raped or something.
Anyways, obviously this is directed at young women. I see people here condemning the church as sexist and I get that. People like to say the LDS church is sexist, but in my experience they don't treat men any better than they treat women. It would be more accurate to accuse them of confining everyone to strict traditional gender roles, which are not inherently sexist on their own, but disregard people's personal preferences and agency. They expect everyone to surrender their lives and sexuality to the will of the church. Women are held on a pedestal and treated like children while men are treated as a source of free labour (framed as 'service') and are expected to handle virtually all responsibilities. Women are expected to raise the children and men are expected to focus on serving the church. Yes, there is a hierarchy of 'authority' where women submit to their husbands, but men are to submit to the church. No one is supposed to think for themselves or live their own life. Everyone is treated like some sort of pervert that can barely be trusted with being around the opposite gender without supervision.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 09:35:46 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
exmormon here. While I agree with you in general the church has this thing where they act like porn is a male only issue so while they say everyone is some sort of perv, they act like men are doubly so.
After seeing this video I always wanted to join a nearby mormon church, then bring a mormon priest or pastor or whatever they are to my best friends house and have a straight-faced masturbation intervention with him.
Weird. My Seminary classes had NOTHING like this. They were all discussions about Bible crap or parables or things that were relevant to our lives. We had REALLY cool teachers that we loved. We sortof brought one of them into our friend circle - we got him a surf shop sweatshirt - it was a big deal of acceptance and he loved it. (I'm from a surf town in CA. most of the class were surfers.)
This must be a Utah or Idaho class. Ridiculousness. It was bad enough in CA that I left the church at 15. I wonder if I would have made it past 12 in Utah...
1 - After seeing this video I always wanted to join a nearby mormon church, then bring a mormon priest or pastor or whatever they are to my best friends house and have a straight-faced masturbation intervention with him.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 09:59:48 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I fail to see the connection to big strong hands, you wana cover up those strong hands to avoid temptation? is this refering to males not wearing long arm shirts??
Although this idea is a common trope in patriarchal religions, I don't think that it in principle it requires a religious intellectual scaffolding. For example, I suspect Andrea Dwarkin would be in agreement with this message of female sartorial modesty in the face of insatiable male sexually urges---and her philosophy has no particular need for a deity.
Ah the smiles and the secret hate. Had a bunch of these weird fuckers in my town growing up. So happy to know they'll go to heaven and you're fucked.
deMondo · 0 points · Posted at 22:34:35 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Mormons making total fucking scum of kids. One of you shits lay a hand on my Vette and you'll wish you hadn't. It would be far worse for you to touch my my wife or daughter or son or myself. Do you not understand the limits of you space? I does not extend past your skin. Your religion and its teachers are setting you up for hard time behind bars. There, you will learn that you can't even touch another's sandwich without paying a painful price.
[deleted] · 0 points · Posted at 04:24:00 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So they are virtually teaching young men that whatever women have exposed is okay for them to touch. Why are SJW's attacking people who refer to their pets as boys or girls and not taking on the Mormon church? Seems at least there they'd actually have a reason to fight.
Now that I'm an older Godless heathen, I think about what sort of things I might not want some potential future curious 11 year old boy Im raising to be exposed to. Hardcore porn is really fucking graphic.
I'm almost thirty and porn is a Huge distraction to me, and I've certainly been down the gaping rabbit hole of finding sketchier and sketchier shit and seeing it as normal everyday stuff. That shouldn't be my reaction, and it certainly shouldn't be an 11yo's either.
Avoiding masturbation completely is dumb, but I understand the urge parents have to prevent their kids from this porn centric unreality. Using religious shaming to do it is a pretty shitty way to go about it though, and has weird effects and repercussions that work themselves out in many bad ways later in that kids life, but what other template is out there?
kinkade · 4 points · Posted at 23:37:41 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Science and general morality? You teach conditioned associations (fetishes, deathgrip), pleasing your partner (do none of the things you see in porn) and that the porn industry abuses people.
Just trying to relate my own human experience to you. I guess I'm just a huge sex pervert!!! Hahaha. How chaste yet conversely without a concern in the world you all truly are!
It's easy to say everything religious people do is crazy. So easy. It's not easy to attempt a deeper understanding of their perspective.
One of these is a very ignorant thing to do and one is not. Keep on truckin' r/atheism finally I remember why I left. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.....
Why are you assuming I have a problem with drugs? "Holmes".
People can identify alcoholics, that doesn't necessarily make them anti-alcohol.
However you seem to know you have a problem. Needing more of the drug to get the same high, acknowledging that it is a huge distraction, and you understand that your reaction to sketchy porn is unhealthy.
I think I'm offering a perspective on my interaction with porn that is probably relatable to people with an ounce of self-awareness in a similar situation. I'm a man and am sometimes annoyed by being distracted by pursuing sex or masturbation. Sexuality is part of my life as it is for everybody else, I just find it annoying at times when I'm trying to focus on other things. I don't think I'm alone in that sentiment. The problem I have is that I'm human.
Just because we all agree that Jesus isn't omniscient ruler of the universe doesn't mean it's always so easy and simple to know what's right and what's wrong.
I just sat by a Mormon guy on a international flight (he was reading the BoM almost the whole time). I kept bumping in to him and laughing in my head every time. This made me laugh even harder given how many women were in leggings on the flight.
Whats the problem? Other than the weird phrasing, it seems to have a good non religious message (people are going to judge you based on what you wear, if you want to get taken seriously wear serious clothing)
[deleted] · 7 points · Posted at 01:58:03 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It seems to me like it's saying that if women don't cover up and are raped, then it's their fault. The rapist was tricked by the temptings of the woman and just used his "big strong hands" the way they were meant to be used.
I mean, sure i guess if youre cynical and want to put the worst possible spin on it, i suppose you could say that. I dont think that was the intention though, i think its just reminding girls that how you dress sends a message about yourself to the world.
I dont see why its OK to tell people how they should dress in every other walk of life (dress for the job you want, not the job you have ect) but the second anyone implies that exposing skin attracts male attention we have to pretend thats not the case
[deleted] · -15 points · Posted at 22:16:27 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
In our current world, this terrible advice is not bad advice to young women in some places.
We do not live in a totally civil society....
bissimo · 6 points · Posted at 01:05:07 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The point is that they're treating all men as mindless rapists and putting the onus on girls to not get raped. All while treating the whole thing with a "boys will be boys" attitude.
The same places where women should heed this advice are probably the same places where men are told that rape is OK because, "she was asking for it."
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[deleted] · -13 points · Posted at 00:56:40 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Those Mormon boys gettin finer pussy than all of y'all. Just sayin.
[deleted] · -15 points · Posted at 21:59:16 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
atemu1234 · 395 points · Posted at 19:01:09 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
TIL not to take a Mormon to a museum.
judyblue_ · 171 points · Posted at 23:16:19 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
No joke - as a young mormon teen growing up in Mormonville USA, I had a friend whose mother "censored" his junior high social studies book with tape because it had pictures of some nude Greek/Roman statues. She deliberately went through his school textbooks to look for anything she found offensive so she could cover it up. Total crazytown.
JPOnion · 80 points · Posted at 23:44:24 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
It's not just Mormans, unfortunately. My Pentecostal mom did something similar. When I was a kid my dad used to get car magazines and car related comic books (specifically CARtoons). Before he or us kids were allowed to read it she covered up anything offensive with a marker, including the little gremlin creatures sometimes used to represent "automotive gremlins", bad words and any depiction of cleavage. I still have some of them, and some parts are nearly unreadable :(
EDIT: I'm doing some research into this and the generic title "CARtoons" is making it hard. Anyway, I might have been remembering a bit wrong. I do remember there being little gremlin creatures in the occasional comic, but some of them were "Varmints", little creatures or people or something from a series of strips published in the comic series "Unk and them Varmints". My mom would have been markered over them as well; too demonic looking. Here's an example of some of the older covers: link, and
removed because it was Facebook, oops. Apparently in 1975 they stopped including "Unk and them Varmints" comics in each issue, so they didn't commonly appear when I started reading in the mid 80's.Furoan · 21 points · Posted at 01:24:38 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wait...before your dad got to look at it? What did she do if she found him reading it WITHOUT her 'assistance'.
JPOnion · 27 points · Posted at 01:31:22 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Usually, yeah, she'd look over it before he would sit down to read; at least that's what I remember. It wasn't super strict and nothing really bad would happen if he read it before she got ahold of it, but I think he'd be made to feel guilty. Us kids were a different story, though; it definitely had to get the marker treatment before we could read it.
mwoodj · 9 points · Posted at 02:53:41 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
If she only knew what you look at online now!
OhioGozaimasu · 9 points · Posted at 04:39:30 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Orc midget riding Mama June poops tentacle dildos on pterodactyl men
DrFrantic · 3 points · Posted at 06:49:34 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Pics or it didn't happen.
silviazbitch · 28 points · Posted at 02:24:49 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
by Joseph Heller
All the officer patients in the ward were forced to censor letters written by all the enlisted-men patients, who were kept in residence in wards of their own. It was a monotonous job, and Yossarian was disappointed to learn that the lives of enlisted men were only slightly more interesting than the lives of officers.
After the first day he had no curiosity at all. To break the monotony he invented games. Death to all modifiers, he declared one day, and out of every letter that passed through his hands went every adverb and every adjective. The next day he made war on articles. He reached a much higher plane of creativity the following day when he blacked out everything in the letters but a, an and the. That erected more dynamic intralinear tensions, he felt, and in just about every case left a message far more universal. Soon he was proscribing parts of salutations and signatures and leaving the text untouched. One time he blacked out all but the salutation "Dear Mary" from a letter, and at the bottom he wrote, "I yearn for you tragically. A. T. Tappman, Chaplain, U.S. Army." A. T. Tappman was the group chaplain's name.
When he had exhausted all possibilities in the letters, he began attacking the names and addresses on the envelopes, obliterating whole homes and streets, annihilating entire metropolises with careless flicks of his wrist as though he were God.
Catch-22 required that each censored letter bear the censoring officer's name. Most letters he didn't read at all. On those he didn't read at all he wrote his own name. On those he did read he wrote, "Washington Irving." When that grew monotonous he wrote, "Irving Washington." Censoring the envelopes had serious repercussions, produced a ripple of anxiety on some ethereal military echelon that floated a C.I.D. man back into the ward posing as a patient. They all knew he was a C.I.D. man because he kept inquiring about an officer named Irving or Washington and because after his first day there he wouldn't censor letters. He found them too monotonous.
ThePhantomLettuce · 1 points · Posted at 13:32:19 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I need to read Catch 22 again. Hilarious stuff. Have an upvote!
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 01:48:51 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I want those CARtoons!!! I miss it so much.
JPOnion · 1 points · Posted at 02:10:56 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
They're rare, but you can occasionally find them. My uncle found some at a garage sale last year, and I've seen them at antique shops and car shows. I didn't have the money at the time, but a while back I found an antique shop that had about 20 different issues. I wish I would have borrowed the money or something, they were amazing comics :)
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 02:22:12 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What's an automotive gremlin?
JPOnion · 1 points · Posted at 02:33:27 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Wikipedia entry for Gremlin:
Basically when you have a mechanical or electrical issue that seemingly comes and goes at random, and/or is proving really difficult and time consuming to identify, you can say it's a gremlin. Obviously you don't believe it's an actual creature in there causing problems, purposefully making it harder for you to identify and fix, teasing you by making the problem disappear when you think you're close but making it return a bit later...but it sure does seem like it.
Changoleo · 3 points · Posted at 07:20:42 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That makes me wonder why any car company would allow a car model to be named a gremlin.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 20:30:54 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That makes sense. Thanks.
jerslan · 2 points · Posted at 06:04:14 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Had a roommate in College that was raised Pentecostal... The day he discovered South Park was when I began to hate that show... Don't get me wrong it's hilarious, but not when every episode is played 5 times a day until the new one comes out :P
shankdaddy880 · 2 points · Posted at 15:44:00 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
A little off topic, so I do apologize, but did you know that they do this in Japan to porn magazines? I lived there for about 3 years and saw this several times. If a store is going to sell porn magazines, the women have to either have so much pubic hair that you can't see their vaginas, or someone has to draw it on with a marker. Or use something to literally scratch it off the page. But if it's a cartoon, you can't show any pubic hair at all. It's exactly opposite. I never understood how a culture that's so openly sexual that there are sex video games in arcades and dildo vending machines on the streets would censor genitals from their porn magazines. Of course, if it was local made, it would have already been censored. But if they import American porn or from anywhere else, someone is drawing a ton of hair on vaginas with a marker or scratching them off the pages.
JPOnion · 1 points · Posted at 21:18:39 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Yup! I lived in Tokyo off and on, a year and half in total, and it's just like you said. It was an odd bit of culture shock over to how prevalent it can be (I saw people reading hentai on the subway, I saw explicit porn ads posted on the outside of normal book/magazine stores, I once found lolicon at a park near my apartment, etc), especially compared to how hidden away it has to be in American society. And as you say, it's so weird what gets censored. The subject matter can be extremely explicit and hardcore, but that's irrelevant to the censoring process, all they seem to care about is not seeing certain areas of certain body parts. Tentacle monster raping underage girl? No problem. But the tip of the penis-tentacle is taboo, so when it's not too far inside her, put a black box around that part. WTF?
I never understood it either. Over the years I've read a few articles explaining it, but I still don't get it.
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JPOnion · 1 points · Posted at 03:14:11 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oops! I edited my post with a link to a Facebook gallery containing some old CARtoon pages so everyone could see what my mom considered demonic enough to cover up with a marker. I removed the link, any chance of getting the post restored? Sorry!
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 02:20:46 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
My Chabad Hassidic school blacked out pigs and dinosaurs in books and coloring pages with a sharpie.
OhioGozaimasu · 1 points · Posted at 04:36:24 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
When I was in high school we watched Schindler's List and parents had whined so much in the past that our history teacher stood up and covered the tv with a newspaper for a brief boobshot. My english teacher did the same thing for this version of Romeo and Juliet we were watching. I don't even live in a very religious community. People are just batshit insane.
outlawstarc · 1 points · Posted at 12:38:03 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Yeah I think I remember my English teacher fast forwarding that Romeo and Juliet part
gthing · 1 points · Posted at 07:19:02 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Ha my (Mormon) mom used to go through the Victoria's secret catalog with a sharpie. When that wasn't enough she started using scissors to cut out the naughty bits. Eventually there was almost nothing left and she finally threw it away.
Here is my btc address if anyone wants to help with the therapy bills: 1LZR2d6Y5DwBGnbof3ndRCtQJbifXzo3E8
ChronosFT · 1 points · Posted at 08:10:38 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
For the life of me, I cannot figure out how anyone thinks that censorship accomplishes anything positive. It just makes people more interested in whatever was censored. It's the progenitor of the Streisand Effect.
JamesR624 · 1 points · Posted at 12:18:51 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ahh the religious. So sexually obsessed due to the generations of sexual oppression that they deflect and over compensate by trying to take the opposite extreme. Basically, the kinkiest people in the US you could ever find, with the most diverse and somewhat odd fetishes, would be those in the most religious communities (if they ever admitted it.)
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 14:26:15 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I went to a tiny Baptist school in elementary, and there was a family that wasn't allowed to take the clothes off of their Barbie's. Whatever garb they came in, they stayed in. Weird as hell, even for the rest of us fellow brainwashed kids.
felesroo · 1 points · Posted at 14:28:33 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Meanwhile, my dad let me watch Monty Python's The Meaning of Life when it first came out (I was 6 or 7). Hey, it had cartoons (of naked ladies giving birth to the universe...)
EchoJunior · 1 points · Posted at 14:40:34 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
don't people realize that is ridiculous? I mean, I understand a family doing that, but a whole town? Humans are stupider than I thought...no offense.
[deleted] · 91 points · Posted at 19:10:16 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The Mormon field trip to Jurassic Park did not go well.
seifd · 81 points · Posted at 22:10:06 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Couldn't keep their hands off those clever girls in the Raptor pen.
[deleted] · 4 points · Posted at 13:24:50 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hold on to your butts.
MethodicalMe · 1 points · Posted at 03:25:37 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Don't worry those dinosaur bones are just a test from god, we can never make us some dinos from dna they weren't real lol
benbernards · -1 points · Posted at 23:19:27 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Mormon guy here. Can confirm - I got lost and slobbered all over the churro display. really just wanted a churro...
kaheiyattsu · 427 points · Posted at 19:56:47 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because you know self control doesn't exist right?
kkby · 221 points · Posted at 21:18:33 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't understand; if boys are not expected to have self control about their behavior around girls, how are girls expected to have self control about how they dress?
DwendilSurespear · 265 points · Posted at 21:38:35 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ah but you see, girls and boys are not equal, boys are always the victim of the feminine whiles of devilish girls /s
It's a disgusting and troublesome double standard.
kkby · 91 points · Posted at 01:13:17 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I grew up with sisters who were self possessed and went for what they wanted. When they were late teens and brought boyfriends home for sleepovers, my parents always made them double beds, trusting them to be responsible. I grew up thinking woman can do anything man could. One of my sister was an athlete, and went to international competitions. I hope I can give my kids the same point of view.
alexrng · 20 points · Posted at 02:49:04 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So, did your parents make you a double bed when you brought your SO over for the night?
kkby · 33 points · Posted at 02:57:48 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes, but I started late... I was in my twenties.
PMmeslut · 3 points · Posted at 06:33:11 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Word bro
DwendilSurespear · 1 points · Posted at 13:21:53 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's a really lovely way to think :) I just have to hope that more people are brought up with those values as time passes.
kkby · 2 points · Posted at 13:31:21 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm not good at convincing others really. Am doing my bit by trying to raise my kids right. It is hard - they grow up in a society and it has a big shaping effect on them as well. You need to balance everything.
DwendilSurespear · 1 points · Posted at 13:42:43 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's the most difficult part :( you can be giving them all the right messages but then their peers and the media and even random strangers will sell them cultural bollocks :(
kkby · 3 points · Posted at 13:59:07 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm going for critical thinking, but that is a hard path to tread. I got so upset when my daughter was learning about the continents. She was taught there are seven, and the definition is 'a large body of land surrounded by water'. That definition does not really match the seven continent story. So I made sure to quiz her about it, and show her that there is no real agreement about number of continents, and the current norm is historically based. I was upset when they were told there is fire in the Sun. But then I found myself trying to explain fusion to a little girl... I think it works overall - my kids ask a lot of questions and usually don't automatically accept answers, but it is always a struggle.
DwendilSurespear · 2 points · Posted at 18:44:40 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Geez, those examples are upsetting. But you're doing exactly the right thing :) Bring up sceptical, questioning human beings rather than mindless sheep :) Then they'll be armed and ready for everything life throws at them.
kkby · 2 points · Posted at 20:57:18 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I hope so. I'm trying not to overdo it. It seems to me that critical thinking is fine for yourself, but you should be careful applying it to others - they do not always like the results. I once had a friend who was following some new age belief system (it was a long time ago, so I don't really remember details). That friend was discussing their belief with me, and asserted that their belief was fully logical and self consistent. Me, being young, logical, and trying to be helpful, asked for details, then proceeded to show my friend clear contradictions in their belief system. That was the end of that friendship; the friend did not deny what I showed - it was worse: they accepted it and were distraught. Apparently - they were reassured by whoever they were following that it WAS logical and self consistent, but never bothered to actually think about it deeply for themselves. That friend could not bring themselves to discuss things with me again. I learned an important lesson that day: not everyone wants to think critically, and forcing it on people (even well meaning) could cause a lot of pain. Now I tread carefully. If someone will invite me directly to critique their belief, I would first make sure they understand what is involved. If I am not invited, I usually just say I think differently and leave it at that.
DwendilSurespear · 1 points · Posted at 21:11:43 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Although you regret the outcomes of that discussion, I actually believe you probably did that friend a lot of good in the long term.
I think the take home message is, unfortunately, to not be fully frank about your thoughts to everyone, you sometimes have to keep quiet if you know it's the kind of person who won't react well to contradictions and you want to remain friendly with them.
kkby · 1 points · Posted at 01:15:29 on January 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
You could be right. I just don't know. I know that for me it is better to understand my misconceptions. I am happier feeling I thought things through. But others seem happier living in dreams. While I feel good with the path I have chosen, I am not sure I have the right to choose the path for others. I guess kids are a special case - they are others that you are responsible for shaping to a degree - so I try my best.
DwendilSurespear · 1 points · Posted at 01:53:13 on January 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Exactly right :) I feel the same way. Incidentally, I'm not too fussed about being friends with the narrow-minded or those unable to be humble if an error is pointed out to them.
I'll be polite and friendly, but I'm fine with drifting away from them.
kkby · 2 points · Posted at 03:18:38 on January 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sort of the same here, but it gets complicated with family. My MIL who is a scientist went through a phase of believing in crystals and their 'energy'. I was polite but made it clear that without some good experimental proof I don't accept it. We agreed to disagree and later she stopped believing in that. I had not and will not discuss it unless she brings it up. Not worth the family tension.
DwendilSurespear · 1 points · Posted at 09:25:35 on January 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's a shame there needs to be any tension, people shouldn't have so much pride, I like people who are able to be humble in the face of error much more than those who act up. But yes, you can't ditch family :)
kkby · 1 points · Posted at 16:49:13 on January 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
I found the 'agree to disagree' or 'it might be for you but it is not for me' usually works well for me in these situations. Sadly, sometimes they feel that if they can't convince you they are right, you are somehow looking down on them. I had long conversations trying to convince me to try various alternative treatments. I usually say that I am concerned about harmful effects. They usually counter by saying it can do no harm and might help. I ask them how does it make sense that it can only have positive effect? For example, if you go to someone to 'align your energies', what if he aligns them wrong? Without an objective measurable success criteria, how can they say it does no harm? At that point they usually agree to disagree... People don't want to think about possible harm of any treatment.
DwendilSurespear · 1 points · Posted at 16:52:05 on January 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
You're an incredibly reasonable person :) I hope those you interact with are encouraged to think more like you :)
kkby · 2 points · Posted at 17:10:53 on January 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Thank you. I really try. I have changed some minds, at least enough to start questioning. A psychologist once told me I am harming myself by testing things. I have migraines and was prescribed some medicine; I kept a log and while it felt like the medicine helped (it usually works that way...) my log showed no change. He said I should not check, and just remain with the fake feeling that things are better. I know it works for many people, but not for me. I have to KNOW. Scientific upbringing has its downside.
DwendilSurespear · 1 points · Posted at 17:26:42 on January 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
You'll find out what works for you, I've had to train healthier ways of thinking into myself too :) And yeah being sceptical can have its medicinal downsides, eg. I don't think a placebo would work for me!
kkby · 2 points · Posted at 23:51:03 on January 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Placebo was shown to work even on people that know it is placebo, so there's that. I guess my problem is that I want to BE better, not just feel better.
DwendilSurespear · 1 points · Posted at 07:41:32 on January 11, 2016 · (Permalink)
Want it enough and you'll enact that change :)
WitnShit · 14 points · Posted at 03:55:16 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
It's more that they're granted the right to self-expression, including their style of dress. They aren't hurting anyone by what they choose to wear and therefore there's nothing inherently wrong about it to control.
Whereas aggressively groping or feeling in someway entitled to another person's body is very much a hurtful form of expression, and so any such urge should be subject to self-discipline.
Zeliek · 3 points · Posted at 08:49:10 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Supposedly stems from ye olde Genesis in which Eve tempted Adam to bite the forbidden fruit.
Yep, that's how bloody old this line of thinking is.
Seakawn · 1 points · Posted at 12:28:53 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's how little education reform has happened, since a significant amount of people buy into mythology that old.
kkby · 1 points · Posted at 13:22:53 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wait, the Bible says the serpent deceived the woman. She then gave the apple to her man, not tempting him... So even at the source the woman was not a temptress. People are just weird when other people's sex life is involved.
Zeliek · 1 points · Posted at 15:19:22 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes, but eve is blamed for original sin. The devil got off pretty easy on that as well.
kkby · 1 points · Posted at 16:04:01 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
If you actually read Genesis, it is clear that Eve is just being nice. She tastes the apple, finds out that it is tasty and provides wisdom, and shares with Adam. No temptation, coercion or anything else. I'm not a believer in any way, but people blame the Bible for things that are not even there. They also ignore, of course, horrible things that ARE there, but that is another story.
Zeliek · 1 points · Posted at 16:31:20 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's one interpretation, however you seem to be sweeping under the rug the past hundred years of woman-blaming based pretty much entirely on Eve.
kkby · 1 points · Posted at 16:40:53 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm not ignoring it, I'm just reading what it actually say. People interpret things the way they want to. People also find secret messages by analyzing phone books. My point is that people don't need the Bible (or any religion) to make them think woman are inferior/bad/temptress etc. They just decide. Than they find ways to justify.
jordoonearth · 10 points · Posted at 21:58:58 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
But God's will tho' LOL.
[deleted] · 20 points · Posted at 00:19:19 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Come on man, if you had been taught that masturbating was an evil on par with murder, you'd have little self control as well.
MostazaAlgernon · 48 points · Posted at 20:06:52 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not in rape culture
pudinnhead · 1 points · Posted at 04:24:55 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's not even a Fruit of the Spirit or anything!
KADWC1016 · 1 points · Posted at 06:01:03 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This whole thing in Mormonism spawned from one of their prophets giving a talk about how girls can become walking pornography for young men. It's out of control in the church right now. All they talk about is modesty and not watching porn.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 07:22:47 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Rationality can't compete with orgasms.
PhyterNL · 1 points · Posted at 07:25:44 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It does but they made self-control illegal when they declared masturbation a sin.
ThePhantomLettuce · 1 points · Posted at 13:38:49 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I hate to bring this up again, but...
I'd bet a shiny new penny this church leans heavily Republican. If I'm right--and of course I am--this is yet one more example of the right's "pro-sexual assault" attitudes.
It's not the man's fault he groped you, young lady. He couldn't control himself, because you dressed like a slut in those ankle-revealing jeans and short sleeved T-Shirt!
Exmerman · 1 points · Posted at 07:50:08 on January 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yep. Porn shoulders are irresistible.
ninjas_in_my_pants · 490 points · Posted at 21:23:11 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
The phrase "Young Men" at the top made me read the whole thing to the tune of YMCA.
EDIT:
Young man!
I say thanks for the gold!
Young Man!
Something something stranglehold!
meh4354 · 125 points · Posted at 23:05:42 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Young man! I hope you won't tempt me!
I said young man! By the clothes you might wear!
DRLavigne · 49 points · Posted at 00:38:58 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Whatttt-ev-er you show me dun dun dun
I'll think that I can touch,
Think I can touchuchhhh
TheCrowbarSnapsInTwo · 11 points · Posted at 01:57:21 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Down here at the Y-M-M-A!
(doot-doot doo doo doo doot doo doo)
At the Y-M-M-A-Ha!
ScroteMcGoate · 3 points · Posted at 02:13:58 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh goodness, some well meaning Sunday school teacher is going to have their kids singing that song.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 06:14:01 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
we learnt this,
at sunday school,
they say cover up
cause its really cool
JD_1994_ · 4 points · Posted at 04:49:12 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wait, so...are they gay/sexually confused guys talking to other guys or are they still girls in this song?
DRLavigne · 1 points · Posted at 12:43:58 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What ever you want it to be, it is music after all ;)
chevymonza · 2 points · Posted at 00:52:49 on January 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
I choooose to be gay
That's what I'm saying,
and you choooose to be stray-aiiight.
Young man, young man,
Make sure you go door-to-door,
Young man, young man,
Don't listen to Satan no mo'......
threenager · 9 points · Posted at 00:46:36 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Two strong hands"! OMFG yes
falconandwhip · 2 points · Posted at 04:12:40 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I've only got one strong hand. The other one is kinda wimpy.
fiddlenutz · 1 points · Posted at 08:56:39 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Mormon men are Rockbiters.
oddlyDirty · 17 points · Posted at 21:38:02 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nobody else seems to get this.
drlala · 2 points · Posted at 02:47:41 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I loved it.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 04:06:44 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah I don't even know the YMCA song :(
oddlyDirty · 1 points · Posted at 05:41:20 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8RgbjvkX20
joeyGOATgruff · 2 points · Posted at 02:47:24 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I read "Strong Hands" and immediately thought of the scene in the Neverending Story where Rockbiter loses his family to the Nothing.
https://youtu.be/aj-OpTHixpU
ninjas_in_my_pants · 1 points · Posted at 03:31:56 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Me too!
badrussiandriver · 2 points · Posted at 12:29:38 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Currently trying to mime the alphabet with my arms and a big smile
grayle · 1 points · Posted at 03:48:29 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
... I actually scrolled back up and read-sang the lyrics. Problem was halfway through there was no "Young Man!" Exclamation. Inserting in the middle now gives the song a whole new context...
enfiel · 1218 points · Posted at 16:46:30 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Now get in that burqa, you whore!
TudorGothicSerpent · 62 points · Posted at 01:49:58 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Sure, burqas are nice, but are they really modest enough? You can almost see eyes if you look close enough at the screen. Allow me to introduce you to the paranja. Good for protecting
your propertyyour wife's modesty from all manner of staring hoodlums and Sodomites!enfiel · 30 points · Posted at 02:51:07 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's the elefant woman!
[deleted] · 21 points · Posted at 02:56:16 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
TudorGothicSerpent · 18 points · Posted at 03:29:32 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
When extraterrestrials find our planet and decide to destroy us, that picture is going to be Exhibit A.
singularineet · 1 points · Posted at 16:18:31 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Dude, that is an extraterrestrial. Wearing a shawl, with its large primary ventral hydrostatic organ exposed.
Dustin_Hossman · 3 points · Posted at 04:05:39 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wait is this an actual thing..
TudorGothicSerpent · 2 points · Posted at 07:52:09 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Yep. The paranja is a body covering worn by women in some parts of Central Asia. It's thankfully rare, in part because it was highly discouraged as a repressive symbol in those parts of the Soviet Union after the October Revolution. Technically, it is a burqa, although not of the typical Afghan style. It's a bit more extreme. The head covering is made of heavy horse hair.
bitshoptyler · 3 points · Posted at 14:16:47 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That looks less like something you'd actually wear and more like somebody got tangled up in their bedsheets and thought "this is how in going out today."
EverythingBurnz · 2 points · Posted at 03:25:48 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Remember those monsters from Morrowind...
n00bkilling101 · 1 points · Posted at 12:11:41 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Gotta kill it for that sixth house amulet
chestypants12 · 2 points · Posted at 14:36:10 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That is insane. Fuck religion right up its tight ass.
umadibet · 91 points · Posted at 19:05:44 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
what is german for burqa?
[deleted] · 148 points · Posted at 19:24:28 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
librlman · 196 points · Posted at 19:59:29 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Borka if you are in Sweden.
MonkeysOnMyBottom · 664 points · Posted at 20:31:35 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Borkea if you have to assemble it yourself.
General__Specific · 32 points · Posted at 23:06:00 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Usually doesn't open right after about a month and it squeaks, which is quite a feat for cloth.
OriginalName317 · 11 points · Posted at 23:29:35 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
But they always have the right amount of screws. Which in this case is none.
JustAnotherLondoner · 2 points · Posted at 06:43:03 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Now now there are always screws.
They're just a little loose is all.
sparticus11 · 1 points · Posted at 00:27:33 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I just took a break from assembling an ikea desk and this made me laugh wayyyy too hard.
TSP123 · 0 points · Posted at 23:00:39 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
ROFL
white_n_mild · 123 points · Posted at 20:24:29 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Bjorka if you are Icelandic
Doominator99 · 35 points · Posted at 20:37:41 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Burkhan if your Mongolian
wren42 · 25 points · Posted at 21:19:43 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
KHAAAAN
warchitect · 1 points · Posted at 02:20:12 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN! FTFY :-)
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 21:39:40 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
buried alive...
teedeepee · 1 points · Posted at 10:35:50 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Burkakke in Japan
Costco1L · 64 points · Posted at 21:49:09 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
BorkaBorkaBorka if you are a Swedish chef.
librlman · 15 points · Posted at 22:09:26 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Miss Borka if you're nasty!
puffz0r · 9 points · Posted at 23:16:57 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Chef Burkadee if you're into canned pastas
Lord_of_Mars · 1 points · Posted at 00:08:04 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sometimes he blows stuff up.... It all makes sense now.
[deleted] · 30 points · Posted at 21:52:42 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Borga if you want to be assimilated quicker
kungsunil · 8 points · Posted at 21:51:54 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You're a silly person
2GabbasHey · 5 points · Posted at 20:48:17 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-QiDOlIrXo
ksiyoto · 4 points · Posted at 20:57:50 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Only if you speak mock Swedish.
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 01:49:27 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Brake if you're from Japan.
BenedictWolfe · 3 points · Posted at 08:17:41 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Mattis, if you jump the gap.
h-v-smacker · 2 points · Posted at 04:23:11 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Сивка-Бурка if imported from Russia.
MimonFishbaum · 1 points · Posted at 00:03:34 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
My son is also named Bort.
veggiezombie1 · 1 points · Posted at 01:31:15 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
In space, we call them the Borqa.
Resistance is futile.
BardivanGeeves · 1 points · Posted at 02:06:36 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Durka
TheFeshy · 1 points · Posted at 04:05:44 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Bürkä
rasungod0 · 23 points · Posted at 20:24:30 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
There are several types of religious clothes for women in Islam
https://whyevolutionistrue.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/hijab-veil-types.jpg
But spelling is sometimes a little fluid because these aren't English words.
iamthetruemichael · 29 points · Posted at 21:16:59 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Look at the lady in the Shayla. She lookin for the D man. She fittin to sin
phrostbyt · 4 points · Posted at 21:54:01 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
the second one looks like a badass ninja!
[deleted] · 6 points · Posted at 00:34:52 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sneak attack damage to my heart. <3
hostile65 · 21 points · Posted at 19:46:37 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
If you are trying to channel Mennonites and Amish, the word you would be looking for is Gewöhnlichkeit (plainness) or something along those lines or Bescheidenheit (modesty.)
fiveSE7EN · 23 points · Posted at 20:55:31 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
As an American, I'd totally pronounce this as "guy wanna lickit" for maximum irony.
ritchie70 · 5 points · Posted at 21:44:52 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The syllables would break ge-wohn-lich-keit so no, you're pretty far off.
tuscanspeed · 7 points · Posted at 22:53:56 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Looks fine to me.
ritchie70 · 6 points · Posted at 22:56:35 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Except German doesn't really have silent letters.
Guh voan lick kite
Roughly.
Atanar · 5 points · Posted at 00:05:44 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
but only if you can't pronounce ö and soft ch.
Benislav · 4 points · Posted at 01:29:09 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Guh v(short sex moan)n li(s)ch kite
TheCrowbarSnapsInTwo · 2 points · Posted at 01:53:23 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
FTFY
jarfil · 2 points · Posted at 22:55:19 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Gee-Won't-Lick-Keith... damn, I did want to lick her.
Kazumara · 1 points · Posted at 23:27:03 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
you lost the ö there
ritchie70 · 2 points · Posted at 23:32:05 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah, well, I don't have a German keyboard and I don't care that much.
residentevol · 18 points · Posted at 20:58:45 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Das Burqa
Rutherford_B_Hayesin · 34 points · Posted at 21:49:41 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
C:\DOS\Burka
Upvotes_poo_comments · 3 points · Posted at 02:54:06 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
run Christian
MoroccoBotix · 1 points · Posted at 04:19:45 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Abort, Retry, Fail?
Kazumara · 8 points · Posted at 23:25:28 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Die Burka
btribble · 3 points · Posted at 01:00:59 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Buraku Des? Honto no!
Kazumara · 1 points · Posted at 07:02:33 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Desu
warchitect · 3 points · Posted at 02:21:12 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Die Burka Die!" Its german for "The burka the"
GrumpyPenguin · 3 points · Posted at 09:36:35 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nobody who speaks German could be an evil man!
king_of_the_universe · 1 points · Posted at 05:47:40 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This. Die, Burka.
Polly_der_Papagei · 1 points · Posted at 20:17:52 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nope. Die Burka.
Source: I'm German.
residentevol · 1 points · Posted at 20:22:16 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ich Bin Ein Amerikaner.....Entschuldigung
Polly_der_Papagei · 1 points · Posted at 21:04:18 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Kudos for learning German - I've heard that it's super tricky to do.
residentevol · 1 points · Posted at 21:32:34 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm really not very fluent at all. It's actually embarrassing that I don't know more since I lived in Germany for 7 years. But thank you!
domdanial · 1 points · Posted at 19:20:46 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Burqa? I think its the name of the garment.
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 21:14:41 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
in mormon-ville, "garment," is a whole different animal. Every cult got it's own language.
404_UserNotFound · 1 points · Posted at 03:51:25 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Pretty sure the germans use one of the suits over at (nsfw) /r/shineyporn
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 06:08:45 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
can't click cause at work but the word shiny has me very curious.
bjeanes · 0 points · Posted at 00:02:03 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Bircher
lumidaub · 2 points · Posted at 00:54:57 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's Müsli. Easily confused with Muslim, but slightly different.
Dangerman45 · 37 points · Posted at 20:03:10 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
ook, I'm trying to repair a portal gun with a bunch of sex-doll parts, and i have to do it one-handed to keep these belushis from carting you off. The least you could do is be ashamed of your gender.
tasha4life · 2 points · Posted at 22:38:34 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Morty?
[deleted] · 6 points · Posted at 00:16:32 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, Summer.
tasha4life · 3 points · Posted at 01:13:13 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Think it was Rick to Summer. Got Morty and him mixed up a bit. I'll go shoot myself in the face now. I cannot bear the shame.
wolfkeeper · 11 points · Posted at 21:27:53 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
But modest is the hottest!
gemini86 · 13 points · Posted at 00:38:50 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I hate myself for ever parroting that phrase.
DantePD · 8 points · Posted at 03:06:39 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wait, that's an actual thing?
gemini86 · 3 points · Posted at 03:27:41 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Unfortunately, brainwashing is super effective.
wolfkeeper · 1 points · Posted at 00:55:31 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
lol
justcurious12345 · 3 points · Posted at 03:09:01 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Do you want the guys poking your eyes? I think I'd rather leave some other bit of skin exposed, since apparently they're going to touch whatever they can see?
copperwatt · 2 points · Posted at 02:29:11 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
But, those sexy, sexy eyeballs, begging to be touched...
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 16:12:24 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I wish someone would make an "If a dog wore a Burka, would it wear it top down or left to right." just like if a dog wore pants comic.
Rushdoony4ever · 636 points · Posted at 16:58:56 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
"it's not my fault. i saw her ankle and i couldn't control myself."
[deleted] · 271 points · Posted at 17:11:08 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm sure Mormons have jacked off to less.
erkd1 · 62 points · Posted at 20:44:35 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Google "Mormon bubble porn".
babystealingdingo · 80 points · Posted at 21:11:58 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I hate it when half naked women hide in my swiss cheese.
TotesMessenger · 36 points · Posted at 22:14:42 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
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dogGirl666 · 4 points · Posted at 01:27:55 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
FYI Swiss cheese is the most dangerous cheese as far as scombroid poisoning goes.
Just today there was a request for info about a possible case related to cheddar cheese: http://foodindustrymag.com/histamine-poisoning-link-to-cheddar/ ...
http://www.foodmanufacture.co.uk/Food-Safety/Cheddar-linked-to-food-poisoning-among-children
So, you should avoid Swiss cheese for several reasons, or at least get it from a reputable dealer. For one, naked women hide in it, two it can kill you!! ;)
TamponShotgun · 40 points · Posted at 00:44:04 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
For anyone on their work PC or not trusting the google search, it's when they take a picture of a woman wearing a bikini, then using flat colors that make the picture look like it's been overlaid with swiss cheese, they block out the bikini using the overlay until it appears like underneath the overlay is a naked woman.
Fucking seriously.
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 13:43:08 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It actually started in Japan (of course) on imageboards, which are sites like 4chan. I think the name "mormon porn" is just a joke, although I don't doubt its use for that purpose.
OralOperator · 7 points · Posted at 02:32:33 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm Mormon and I've never heard of this. I've been missing out for so long.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 10:51:46 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm not Mormon so I don't miss out on shit.
freakDWN · 2 points · Posted at 14:22:35 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Thats because it comes from 4chan not Mormons, i was there when it got popular.
Exmerman · 1 points · Posted at 07:47:45 on January 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
I was Mormon and I remember doing this.... I'm embarrassed.
shwhjw · 46 points · Posted at 21:15:20 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nun bubbling
original
precursormar · 1 points · Posted at 13:53:09 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Actually kind of interesting, psychologically, that this works for people. Our brains are just really good at completing perceived patterns.
zempter · 8 points · Posted at 03:13:00 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This was all I could find http://static.fjcdn.com/large/pictures/9f/15/9f15c5_2274927.jpg
OhioGozaimasu · 1 points · Posted at 04:41:30 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
He looks like he's jerking his 14 inch cock.
[deleted] · 11 points · Posted at 20:55:36 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
If that's all you have to fap to, then it'll have to do.
nootrino · 146 points · Posted at 17:56:30 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Dat finger tip.
Doominator99 · 52 points · Posted at 20:38:32 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Dat atom doe.
zubie_wanders · 21 points · Posted at 23:37:54 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
dat planck length
Ka-onBeauden · 6 points · Posted at 00:49:32 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
dat general area
dogfish83 · 15 points · Posted at 21:23:59 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
dat eye slit
OhioGozaimasu · 0 points · Posted at 04:40:24 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
read that as "eye shit"
Allieareyouokay · 2 points · Posted at 02:54:55 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So this made me feel very bad for Mormon boys. After a little more thinking, I thought about the girls. They don't even know that they can masturbate, and the shame they endure if that topic is ever discussed...fuck. Makes me want to go on some anti-holy holy war.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 03:00:36 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Absolutely. Anyone who isn't taught that masturbation is important and fucking amazing from a young age is missing out on one of life's simple pleasures, as well as handicapping later sexual experiences due to not knowing oneself.
Allieareyouokay · 1 points · Posted at 03:21:11 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Exactly. It took me a long time to get to know myself just from being brought up southern baptist. Masturbation for boys was shameful and terrible, but female masturbation?! Not even discussed, not a possibility. I stumbled across it as I'm sure most people do in that situation, but I didn't experiment much and kept it only as a rare guilty pleasure until I was older, subsequently became atheist and started coming(ha) into my own sexuality. Even then, I struggled until my mid 20s with orgasms from my partners. It took a really invested boyfriend that truly enjoyed working on that with me to get it down and know my body. I can't imagine what even more oppression and isolation does to these girls. Ugh.
DredPRoberts · 1 points · Posted at 00:42:36 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
A curvy piece of drift wood is all a teen needs.
MethodicalMe · 1 points · Posted at 03:27:07 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
J.C Penny magazines are pretty damn sexy
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 10:00:34 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nah, they got confused and started dating sheeps as theyr wearing less than their women :P
HiImAlice · 1 points · Posted at 01:01:29 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I masturbated to an extra curvy piece of driftwood yesterday!!
heartofgoldfish · 38 points · Posted at 22:24:56 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
It's not my fault
I'm not to blame
It was the Gypsy girl, the witch that set this flame
fluffyxsama · 5 points · Posted at 09:10:28 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
It's not my fault!
(Mea culpa)
If in god's plan
(Mea culpa)
He made the devil so much stronger than a man!
(Mea maxima culpa)
RIP Tony Jay ;( God damn HoND had the best fucking music... Alan Menken is a boss.
Frommerman · 4 points · Posted at 10:39:44 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hellfire! Dark fire!
Now, gypsy, it's your turn!
Choose me or your pyre,
Be mine or you will buuuuurrrrn!
fluffyxsama · 3 points · Posted at 10:40:58 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
God have mercy on her...
Frommerman · 3 points · Posted at 10:47:12 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
God have mercy on me!
Polly_der_Papagei · 1 points · Posted at 20:28:05 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Just realising that despite the fact that the pretty guy gets the girl while the ugly one stands by smiling which infuriated me as a child, this film actually had a decent and complex message on love and sex.
fluffyxsama · 1 points · Posted at 20:42:46 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I was just annoyed at how different it was from the book, but then I thought "I guess they couldn't really do that in a Disney movie..."
Polly_der_Papagei · 1 points · Posted at 21:05:10 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Quasimodo starving to death next to Esmeralda's hanged corpse after pushing Frollo to his death... nope.
fluffyxsama · 1 points · Posted at 21:19:37 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
And don't forget Phoebus's similarly lamentable fate.
AngelicDirt · 2 points · Posted at 22:47:49 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ah, Disney. Man didn't even know what he started.
Kalam-Mekhar · 1 points · Posted at 03:20:08 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Esmeralda?
After all, "Elle Porte en Elle la peche originel" why did she have to be dancing around the market like that? That witch! Enchantress!
Sorry if I've butchered the spelling a touch, I'm fighting with an English keyboard here and that whole piece is fucking beautiful in French.
LetMyForbynGo · 14 points · Posted at 20:15:31 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
"All for Silas! All for Silas!"
killercritters · 8 points · Posted at 21:36:45 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
"She only gave me an ankle job so it's not a sin."
elmerfudddied · 1 points · Posted at 00:29:43 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Tell me, oh tell me where did it begin."
Robert_Cannelin · 1780 points · Posted at 17:23:49 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I hope you'll control your young burgeoning urges
MY problem's NOT your testosterone surges
It's boys with new strength and a lecherous yen
Who have yet to be taught to become proper men.
babystealingdingo · 244 points · Posted at 18:16:27 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Fuck yeah! I'm impressed by your poetic banter.
Clearly_Im_lying · 156 points · Posted at 21:02:44 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Now get that man a wine-filled decanter.
Sythus · 73 points · Posted at 21:09:42 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
i shall imbue it with the help of an enchanter.
QuakePhil · 134 points · Posted at 21:24:27 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
While I fap myself raw with the speed of a panther
[deleted] · 132 points · Posted at 21:37:30 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'll stop reading now cuz...
joshua_fire · 15 points · Posted at 22:08:17 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Beautiful poem.
samebrian · 1 points · Posted at 04:31:19 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I really like episodic content like this.
BboyonReddit · 8 points · Posted at 01:07:33 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It would appear to me that leaving this thread is the answer
TotesMessenger · 3 points · Posted at 11:07:47 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
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Dewmeister14 · 1 points · Posted at 01:49:06 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Damn.
Beelzabubba · 1 points · Posted at 01:47:58 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No more rhyming and I mean it!
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 14:22:22 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
She oughta thank that gold granter.
Eclipser · 7 points · Posted at 21:24:03 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
When you're done just put it over by that small planter.
thegeneraldisarray · 3 points · Posted at 01:01:52 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
In order to see it, you may need a lantern.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 06:02:30 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
ok but please don't make the suit green or animated.
thegeneraldisarray · 1 points · Posted at 06:47:29 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
But... doesn't that go against canon? Or something like that, I am far too loaded to make heads or tails of
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 06:52:33 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
don't read too much into it i'm high as fuck quoting deadpool trailers.
behold the great Ryan Reynolds, the only guy i'd go gay for
thegeneraldisarray · 2 points · Posted at 07:11:07 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I am perpetually out of the loop, thanks!
thegeneraldisarray · 6 points · Posted at 21:45:16 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well look at you go, you little wish granter!!
Idoontkno · 1 points · Posted at 05:47:50 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What the hell's he gonna do with imbued help of an enchanter?
Lonelan · -3 points · Posted at 21:21:49 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
He threw open the shutters to see what was the matter
scrodytheroadie · 14 points · Posted at 22:57:50 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
anybody want a peanut?
LivingDeadInside · 2 points · Posted at 13:26:11 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
There's always a relevant Princess Bride quote for any discussion.
efgi · 3 points · Posted at 23:04:17 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I said no more rhymes!
thegeneraldisarray · 1 points · Posted at 01:08:03 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
NO MORE!!
Pronoia4 · 1 points · Posted at 08:54:44 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I won't be impressed by religious banter.
Robert_Cannelin · 1 points · Posted at 21:33:53 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Needs work, but given it cost five minutes' thought, I'll give it a B+.
TommaClock · 18 points · Posted at 22:17:20 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't have any lecherous yen, it's a pretty poor investment.
mexicodoug · 1 points · Posted at 07:01:20 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You haven't been investing in octopus porn, then.
Charles_Marlow · 3 points · Posted at 07:56:40 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I've cared for children, written sonnets, build houses, killed game and hosted princess tea parties. I am a goddamned student of life that would make da vinci pause and take note. I am a man. I am the pinnacle of millions of years of evolution and a student philosophy; I am the champion of self control and logic, I am not some sort of hormone fueled rape machine. Fuck you mormons.
drdanieldoom · 7 points · Posted at 00:52:10 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You don't have to teach young men to not rape. You might correct one whose been taught to, but rape is not the default urge
bexyrex · 39 points · Posted at 01:44:15 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
But everyone needs to be taught the boundaries of consent and everyone needs to be taught to respect the autonomy of others.
drdanieldoom · 3 points · Posted at 01:52:50 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's natural for normal people. It's not rehabilitation.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 06:33:57 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You should be right, but rape happens too often to just sit and do nothing - we need education to help solving the issue through prevention rather than intervention after the fact.
ulthrant82 · 3 points · Posted at 05:27:01 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Both men and women should be taught how and why to respect themselves and others.
orrosta · 4 points · Posted at 04:39:07 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Is there any evidence for that? I am honestly curious. "Rape" seems pretty common in the animal kingdom, and many of our urges stem from culture.
mundabit · 8 points · Posted at 05:03:29 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Rape is not the default urge because empathy prevents us wanting to hurt others. But Sex is the default urge, and if you are completely unaware of what constitutes valid consent, then your urge for sex and your ignorance of consent may lead you to rape people and feel like it's no big deal.
But for most people, as soon as you tell them that what they are doing for sex is actually rape, they stop pretty fast.
Like, My grandmother and grandfather engaged in lots of marital rape because neither came from a culture where wives are allowed to say "no", so my grandmother never said "No" and my grandfather never asked "do you want sex tonight, or is it just me?" and as a result my grandmother had lots of sex she didn't want, and my grandfather had lots of sex where his partner wasn't giving informed consent (how can her consent be informed if she wasn't informed that she has a right to not consent?).
That doesn't make my grandfather a rapist, his default urge was sex, he was just not educated on what healthy sex is.
This is the problem with a lot of people, male and female, who are denied proper sex education.
orrosta · 1 points · Posted at 05:44:01 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm just not so sure that that kind of empathy doesn't have to be taught. Sure, most people have an innate potential for empathy, but the idea that humans outside of your own tribe and caste are valid targets of empathy doesn't seem to have crossed anyone's mind until the start of the axial age around 800BC. It seems pretty clear that in many times and cultures men saw women as property and the spoils of victory rather than something to empathize with. I agree that when modern men like our grandfathers learn how their actions are harming women they are likely to experience remorse and change their ways, but that is because they were raised in a culture of empathy. Universal empathy is a discovery that humans had to learn.
drdanieldoom · 1 points · Posted at 05:55:11 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That most people don't go around trying to rape people as a way to satisfy sexual and closeness needs
orrosta · 1 points · Posted at 07:57:57 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That doesn't necessarily mean that they were not taught. When you say that rape is not the default urge, that seems like a claim about the innate nature of men. It's a possibility that people do no go around trying to rape others simply because of the law, or because they were raised to believe that it was bad. Even if no one ever says "Rape is bad, don't do it", children can easily learn culturally appropriate behavior from discourse between adults. Are you saying that young men who grew up in our culture do not need to be taught not to rape because they have already adopted our values (and rape is antithetical to values like universal empathy and justice), or are you saying that young men who grow up in any culture and at any time know instinctively not to rape? Or something else?
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 16:10:07 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You do have to teach young men (and all children) to keep their hands to themselves.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 22:19:15 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm not sure I like replacing "all women are whores by default" with "all men are rapists by default."
Kurenai999 · 33 points · Posted at 22:30:35 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The OP picture was implying all men are rapists already.
[deleted] · 12 points · Posted at 22:35:47 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Actually, you're right. It just makes it the woman's fault for being a whore. Like, she's got a choice but he doesn't.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 22:30:31 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
monkeyvoodoo · 11 points · Posted at 23:09:05 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
The poem in OP's image is slut-shaming girls, and simultaneously implying that any guy is a potential rapist, if he sees too much of a girl's body.
It's shitty all around.
Edit: This->The
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 23:23:48 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh, that I agree with.
I thought the commenter I responded to was objecting to the response poem.
The poem (limerick, I should say) in the OP, however, is awful for both reasons, agreed.
monkeyvoodoo · 1 points · Posted at 05:04:00 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Thanks for the clarification :)
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 22:34:24 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't desire to rape anyone. Do you?
inquisiturient · 7 points · Posted at 22:42:58 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
They are saying that most people have sexual urges. Controlling them is an important part of being any adult.
Since this poem is being read by the young men to the young women, they wrote their response from the young women to the young men.
bluexbirdiv · 1 points · Posted at 23:11:22 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Calling it "rape" misses the point. People are inbuilt with the desire to have sex, which is especially amplified by testosterone. What we don't come inbuilt with is a clear sense of when its appropriate to act on that desire. Sure, it's pretty obvious that sleeping with your wife after a romantic date is different from forcing yourself on a stranger in an alley, but what about leaning in to kiss a close female friend that you're alone with? That could be awesome or totally creepy depending completely on a whole lot of factors. Some of which you aren't just born with an nuanced, intuitive understanding of.
When people say "control your urges", what they really mean is "learn to recognize when a situation is mutually romantic and when it isn't". Saying you don't desire to rape (or harass) someone just means you wouldn't act in a way you knew was inappropriate. That's like saying you wouldn't do something "bad". It says nothing about your ability to tell the difference between "good" and "bad", or between mutual consent and harassment, or even between sex and rape. And since you're not born with the ability to get that right in all cases, it's the responsibility of society to teach you as much as it is your responsibility to learn.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:05:08 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It sounds like your talking more about learning social skills than control. If you know it's going to hurt someone badly, you're not going to do it unless you're a sociopath or psychopath. Knowing it'll hurt is something else, but that's not a question of controlling urges, is it?
bluexbirdiv · 1 points · Posted at 00:40:17 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You're jumping to an extreme again. You're right that most people don't need to question this, because we're inbuilt with empathy. Again, the issue lies mostly in the less obvious cases, where we might hurt someone without realizing it. And yeah, it is exactly social skills. Social skills are largely about self-control - training yourself to recognize a variety of social scenarios and changing your behavior accordingly. For example, you might remind yourself to be polite and not curse in the presence of older family members.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 18:28:21 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's not my intention to be "extreme," I thought we were all talking about rape and sexual assault, which is extremely bad behavior I think we can all agree. That's what the OP is about, right? It seems to imply that any bare skin is fair game for groping. Something less than that, like trying for a kiss that isn't wanted or holding someone's hand, could certainly happen to someone who doesn't realize what's going on, and some of us need extra help learning about social niceties. I don't believe that's the case with groping, assault, and rape. Normal, healthy people will only do that if they're in a culture that encourages it specifically. Otherwise we're going to treat others the way we want to be treated and know innately that it's not ok to violate people. No one needs to be taught, specifically, not to kill people or stomp on their heads or steal their cars. We learn to share and not to hit as toddlers. So if all you're saying is that kids need to learn social skills, I agree. But the little poem I responded to initially seemed to imply that men have innate urges to rape or violate women, which I don't agree with. I've never wanted to hurt someone like that and I don't think that's anything special.
MCMXChris · 1 points · Posted at 03:31:27 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hide ya wives. Hide ya kids.
thewineburglar · 1 points · Posted at 07:30:35 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Can I get an Amen ?!
sweetbits · 1 points · Posted at 09:18:28 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Replying to this so I remember it!
Rabid-Duck-King · 1 points · Posted at 13:39:37 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Damn, mic drop right there.
TotesMessenger · 1 points · Posted at 11:21:57 on May 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
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Team_Braniel · 1 points · Posted at 22:20:47 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
For generations they fought her, imposing their will
Strong men, wise men, by decree and by bill.
Masters of industry, mongers of hate,
Laid waste by Mother Nature bemoaning their fate.
LurkerOrHydralisk · -7 points · Posted at 01:10:24 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's a fine sentiment, but young ladies don't generally show excessive amounts of skin (as young men don't, either). It's trashy girls who show excessive skin, and they don't deserve proper men. They deserve the assholes they get.
This is not an endorsement of sexual assault, but it's not like guys walk around in speedos all day, and some girls might as well be.
Grevas13 · 429 points · Posted at 18:20:05 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Is this your class? I remember being forced to take seminary. Of course, that was in Utah, so it was during school hours instead of before. My favorite memory is calling our instructor an asshole for saying the AIDS epidemic in Africa is because they don't believe in God.
[deleted] · 150 points · Posted at 18:21:49 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nope, it was over in /r/exmormon but I remember shit like this from when I was a kid.
Chay-wow · 17 points · Posted at 00:11:16 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Also went to school in Utah. I remember how they got around the whole "separation of state and church" by having the seminary just off campus, but still a stones throw away from the high school.
dredbeast · 2 points · Posted at 03:32:38 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I live in eastern Washington, and they have the same set up here. All the high schools have a seminary across the street from the school and the kids go during school hours. I always wonder how they allow that and what the kids end up missing in school to attend the seminary
mexicodoug · 2 points · Posted at 07:06:40 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So did you throw lots of stones away while in high school? Or were they mostly thrown from the opposite side?
Chay-wow · 2 points · Posted at 07:40:28 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Actually, our high school had a lot of rocks around, being near a rather mountainous area.
Because of this, it was kind of a past-time to grab small rocks and throw them into the nearby valley, which was behind the high school.
So to answer your question, yes. I, along with many others threw lots of stones. I'm sure if I aimed at the Seminary building, I could have hit it, because it was right next to the valley.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 03:59:29 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Orem high grad here. You stepped out a side door of the school and walked 10 feet right into the seminary building.
Zset · 58 points · Posted at 20:27:45 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Forced? By parents? Or societal problems for those who don't take it?
Ahh, the dirty looks and comments when people in school found out you don't take seminary.
Grevas13 · 87 points · Posted at 20:56:34 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Forced by parents, until my senior year. After I just stopped going and pointed out they couldn't make me and couldn't come up with a punishment worse, they gave up.
iambud · 25 points · Posted at 23:14:22 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah, they finally kicked me out because I wasn't going. Sad day.
[deleted] · 15 points · Posted at 23:43:28 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Fake-Professional · 2 points · Posted at 04:35:25 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I didn't wait for them to kick me out, I just took off at 16 (it was the minimum legal age in that area) and rented a place. It wasn't even that rough for the first year or so.
Parents are Jehovah's witnesses, and they wouldn't let me interact with anyone who wasn't also a JW.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 16:42:58 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yep, my mom would threaten to kick me and my sister out almost on a daily basis. I had just finished school and didn't have a job yet, but my sister did, and she was paying most of the bills. So my sister asked if I wanted to go with her. I said hell yes, so we went out, told my mom, then went to her new apartment.
My mom's chilled a lot, but damn it was bad back then.
ShiftyBizniss · 1 points · Posted at 15:51:25 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
As much as a teen may disagree with his/her parents, the day they kick them out over this disagreement isn't a good day.
I feel terrible for anyone in such a position.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 16:41:06 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well yes, it sucks, but if you've got shitty parents, I would think you'd want away from them.
reebokapothecary · 1 points · Posted at 03:28:44 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Similar story but my mom forced me to go to BYU (the Mormon college that enforces all the weird ass rules) said she would cut me off at 18 or I could go and she would pay for school. Well, I went to college, hated it. Seriously wanted to die.
Upside: 3 years in I met an amazing group of girls and we would hang out almost every day. The first time I drank or smoked weed was with them. I have so many amazing memories of that blissful moment when didn't feel chained to something. Fell in love with one of them too, until she moved to a different state :(
iambud · 2 points · Posted at 03:36:02 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's kind of like my friends who were forced to go on missions or their parents would disown them. Heaven forbid they look bad in front of their church members... Hey at least they got a car out of it.
Roberto_Sacamano · 1 points · Posted at 03:14:05 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Same.. except freshman year.
Calistilaigh · 1 points · Posted at 13:31:17 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
My parents wanted me to go when I was a Freshman, because I hadn't told them I was an atheist yet, because I wasn't still sure, but once I actually brought it up with them they were very understanding.
My parents may be Mormon but they're still great people. Very open-minded.
Grevas13 · 1 points · Posted at 17:21:51 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You were quite lucky. I had told my parents by the time I was a freshman. I got the "deep down, we know you still believe" and "it's just a phase" bullshit. Forced to continue with meetings, youth activities, and seminary for quite some time. Eventually, my parents left the church too, and have realized their mistakes.
torypls · 1 points · Posted at 23:34:58 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
For Utah Mormons the preferred school to go to for college is BYU. Seminary grades are taken into account to get accepted into BYU. So many people are "forced" by parents but because of that.
fezzuk · 32 points · Posted at 23:03:36 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Quite sure Africa is very much a Christian content. Us Europeans imported it while exporting people.
I_miss_your_mommy · 29 points · Posted at 23:17:07 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
There is a very large Muslim population in Africa (about 53%).
fezzuk · 13 points · Posted at 23:28:12 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I guess given it includes Egypt I shouldn't be suprised, but I'm quite sure they believe in god
DredPRoberts · 4 points · Posted at 00:45:39 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not the right one so it doesn t count.
FeedMeACat · 2 points · Posted at 01:46:33 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wrong flavor. God only loves Coca Cola products.
Macracanthorhynchus · 1 points · Posted at 14:23:43 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wait, I thought in Africa a Coca-Cola product IS God...
j0nny5 · 2 points · Posted at 03:44:59 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
But... is it the correct god?
Taskforcem85 · 1 points · Posted at 00:41:47 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It depends on what countries you look at.
fezzuk · 1 points · Posted at 12:13:20 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The ones with aids epidemics
SexLiesAndExercise · 1 points · Posted at 02:50:14 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Northern Africa is very Muslim. Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, etc.
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 07:52:29 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
i.e. not where AIDS epidemics occur.
chestypants12 · 1 points · Posted at 14:38:55 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Of course they believe in god. They're uneducated you big silly.
maynardftw · 11 points · Posted at 23:37:18 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It was an exchange program.
fezzuk · 6 points · Posted at 23:47:56 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
someone got the bum end of the deal
smixton · 1 points · Posted at 00:15:57 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Someone always does.
Phaedrus2129 · 1 points · Posted at 04:00:48 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
For your education:
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/images/afrorelg.gif
http://blogoup.electricstudiolt.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Religion_distribution_Africa_crop.png
fezzuk · 1 points · Posted at 12:09:16 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Your point?
KADWC1016 · 1 points · Posted at 05:58:45 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Just being Christian isn't good enough for Mormons. They are gods one true church on the earth. The Book of Mormon talks about all other churches being the church of the devil and the whore of all the earth.
RealBillWatterson · 1 points · Posted at 00:13:25 on January 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
While importing the Africans that other Africans exported*
fezzuk · 1 points · Posted at 00:44:41 on January 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Some one had to bring that up. Yeah slavery was a large part of African and European culture going back long before even the roman empire. However they were usually concidered serves and not less worth than baĺlist as the Europeans at the time treated them
Before that slavery was a form of employment we turned it in to making people worthless. Context is key
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:25:27 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Mormons....
MethodicalMe · 1 points · Posted at 03:32:28 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I remember I had to take seminary before school then had to drive a half hour to get to school where i had my super Mormon dad as a teacher, yeah i was pretty popular lol... When I moved in with my mom for high school my dad tried to pay me $50 a month to go to seminary, yeah that's how you work religion. That really did happen tooI would never lie on the internet.
REPTILE512TB · 1 points · Posted at 03:55:42 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Should have told your dad that you were being the devil's hostage, and your salvation costs more than 50 bucks
15tybalt2 · 1 points · Posted at 03:54:48 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What school did you go to? I've grown up in Utah as well and had to go to seminary, I was having a really hard time faking it by senior year.
Grevas13 · 1 points · Posted at 04:59:44 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Payson High School.
15tybalt2 · 1 points · Posted at 17:33:37 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ah OK, I went to viewmont high school.
6inchVert · 1 points · Posted at 05:18:19 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Attended high school in rural Utah. We had 7 class periods a day but only needed credits from 6 to stay on track to graduate. Those who took seminary did not have a cushion if they failed a class where I did not take seminary I took a classes that gave credit.
Tl;dr class schedule allotted for seminary during school hours but not taking it allowed me to graduate early.
Comoshi · 1 points · Posted at 15:36:15 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I was talking with a guy in Swaziland who said the same thing. It was so sad.
epochellipse · 145 points · Posted at 20:40:49 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
News flash: Christianity leans heavily on blaming the victim.
jarfil · 39 points · Posted at 23:00:04 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Fuck Christ, he's to blame for all our sins, he needs to die for them!... oh, right.
OhioGozaimasu · 1 points · Posted at 04:42:22 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I don't get it. If he died for all our sins, why should we bother not sinning?
jarfil · 1 points · Posted at 08:34:50 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, now that he's gone, we can no longer blame him... so... we've got to behave, you see. It all makes perfect sense!
John_Buttsack · -3 points · Posted at 04:11:15 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
News flash: Mormonism is not Christianity.
precursormar · 1 points · Posted at 13:56:14 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, they're not True ChristiansTM , eh?
trailrider · 167 points · Posted at 17:27:57 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So does this teacher think that because he sees a sub-station, high voltage transformer that it's OK to touch it? What about a police crime scene? Can he go up and grab the nipples of a shirtless guy?
[deleted] · 158 points · Posted at 18:35:41 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
As a guy who is frequently shirtless in public and often disappointed by how little action my nipples get, I'm gonna go ahead and vote yes.
RavenPanther · 12 points · Posted at 21:57:45 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Your username makes this comment even more glorious.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 13:39:16 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No worries Vaughn!
No, some worries bruh, some worries.
Woah.
RavenPanther · 1 points · Posted at 19:33:03 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
WOO! Community reference!
I just started watching, and it's the best fucking (comedy) show I've ever seen! But nobody else in my day-to-day life can stand it :/
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 22:07:52 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[removed]
robertx33 · 2 points · Posted at 22:16:13 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I also demand my nipples to be conditioned for maximum impact.
jvanderh · 33 points · Posted at 21:15:41 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
For that matter, does he think that you can just do whatever you want with any exposed flesh on a woman? Like make out with strangers, or hold people's hands without permission/ any sort of prior relationship? If inciting desire is the crime, rather than touching people without asking, shouldn't we go whole-hog and just say it's always the woman's fault? I mean, teenagers can get aroused by a stiff breeze, so surely they have the right to rip off clothing if it's in any way tight or revealing.
RedCat1529 · 3 points · Posted at 03:52:16 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Fuck! My hair is in a ponytail today - I expect some mormon boys to run up and fondle my exposed ears any time now...
jvanderh · 2 points · Posted at 05:56:34 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Reading this while sitting at my volunteer shift at the ER. The Swing attending sitting next to me all night happened to mention being a Mormon. Thank god I've got this labcoat...
mtklippy · 13 points · Posted at 19:48:40 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yes.
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
LivingDeadInside · 3 points · Posted at 13:27:17 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
My new favorite word.
mtklippy · 2 points · Posted at 17:32:09 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Imagine if Radiohead used it.
"I'm a creep, and I creepe-e-eth. What the hell am I doing here?"
LivingDeadInside · 3 points · Posted at 17:39:09 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It would be an awesome band name on its own. What kind of band would Creepeth be? Metal? Screamo? Industrial?
mtklippy · 2 points · Posted at 17:43:34 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think it would be a hipster indie band. It's to close to Opeth for the metal scene. It would confuse people.
scottmill · 6 points · Posted at 22:59:07 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Fuck that, can he jam his fingers in the teacher's eyes?
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:20:04 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, it's just stupid rhetoric. Try not to think too hard about it. They certainly don't.
h-v-smacker · 1 points · Posted at 04:27:50 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Given what kind of teacher it is, in any case they totally should!
IT_Chef · 82 points · Posted at 20:25:55 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I despise the notion that other men think that because I see some cleavage I am going to turn into a groping, molesting, raping fiend until I cum.
djasonwright · 45 points · Posted at 21:05:52 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
What worries me is that they either think we're all raping a different girl every night (I live in Florida - I see a lot of skin), or they think of themselves as some deranged off-shoot of man who would be raping girls every night without American Jesus. Either way, they're* fucked, right?
posseslayer17 · 12 points · Posted at 22:56:31 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You dropped this *
djasonwright · 2 points · Posted at 01:06:37 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nah. I used the wrong "their."
h-v-smacker · 1 points · Posted at 04:30:35 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
A single girl per night? Are you even trying out there? Slacking off like that, who's going to keep that rape culture alive?
tnp636 · 109 points · Posted at 20:40:00 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Toa_Ignika · 2 points · Posted at 01:55:16 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It reminds me of that rapist's breakdown in one of the Airplane movies. "THEY'RE ALL ASKING FOR IT! THEY'RE ALL ASKING FOR IT ALL THE TIME!!!" Except this is disturbingly real.
ABTechie · 213 points · Posted at 20:11:22 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Fuck that ignorant sexist bullshit.
Sorry. It disturbs me to see that being taught. I know it exists, but that example got to me.
babystealingdingo · 124 points · Posted at 21:16:45 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I was raised by the "men only want one thing and will do anything to get it" rule. It really hurt my perception of men and I found it really hard to have a relationship, in fear of getting raped. It really fucked me up. I have since lost that train of thought, and I realize most men are actually really cool and really good friends.
dianarchy · 63 points · Posted at 22:50:59 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It gave me a wicked complex. Like, I must be HORRIBLY ugly if no one ever tried anything on me :(
[deleted] · 16 points · Posted at 23:22:55 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh whoa I thought I was the only one! I mean, I'm not a dude and I'm not a rapist but...I offer hugs and reassurance!
maltedbacon · 8 points · Posted at 23:31:15 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
We are such a twisted species.
bexyrex · 2 points · Posted at 01:51:19 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Shit I thought the same thing. And now I'm in college and men hit on me on the street and I'm like really?? Really??? Fuck you I'm going to class not to the bar! Go buy a fleshlight and stop making me uncomfortable in public. I always glare and walk with purpose just so fuck boys don't fuck with me.
Now if someone says wow you look really nice. Or your hair looks very pretty, that I can stand, I pay people complements in public all the time. That doesn't make me feel like an object because I got dressed to look good which also feels good.
But that hey mama, or hey girl lemme holla at you, or that hey turn around for me baby shit that's gross. And I feel so unsafe too. I've been followed by like three very large men in broad daylight talking about my body. I actually had to get on the phone with my friend (now current boyfriend) until I made it to the bus I was so nervous.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 01:58:15 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Same here. I've seen a therapist and it's gotten a bit better but I fear it'll be there the rest of my life.
ScroteMcGoate · 1 points · Posted at 02:21:38 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wait, you actually based your self worth on the fact that you were never sexually assaulted? That is the very definition of unexpected outcomes. Truly sorry that you were raised that way.
ABTechie · 21 points · Posted at 21:20:51 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Glad you escaped.
h-v-smacker · 0 points · Posted at 04:26:56 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
And while they aren't getting it, they try to distract themselves with various hobbies, like designing buildings, building rockets, making surgeries, producing lumber, fishing, welding, and lots of other unimportant stuff.
starbuckles · 20 points · Posted at 21:12:09 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Right? That's fucking horrifying.
Toa_Ignika · 5 points · Posted at 01:49:09 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's just so fucking devoid of logic it annoys the shit out of me. I mean legitimately how stupid do you have to be think that women need to dress in a certain way that you approve of in order to not deserve to be touched by you against their will?
Calistilaigh · 1 points · Posted at 13:33:50 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I hate to use the #NotAllMormons, but I never heard anything like this in the Churches/Seminary I went to back when I was actually made to go to them. Probably just some crazy people with some weird fringe views. I mean, you can argue that Mormonism is crazy anyway, but at least not typically this kind of crazy.
boot2skull · 61 points · Posted at 21:05:11 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Victim Blaming a poem by Joseph Smith
[deleted] · 28 points · Posted at 19:35:38 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Absolutely disgusting.
aimeelee76 · 27 points · Posted at 21:27:20 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I am so thankful that I grew up in a liberal, fairly secular place with an agnostic mother. Thanks, Mom!
Calistilaigh · 1 points · Posted at 13:34:55 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
My mom is Mormon and I'm atheist, and I've never heard of anything like this, and my mom (and everyone in her church AFAIK) would find this really fucking weird.
kmcg27 · 23 points · Posted at 20:57:20 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wouldn't want them to teach guys restraint.... Nope make us women cover up. Assholes...
greyfade · 14 points · Posted at 23:04:24 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
No, they teach boys that they're irredeemable rapists and murderers who, but for the grace of God, would normally be going around raping and pillaging like a filthy atheist.
The victim blaming is just icing on the cake.
I want to be sure I'm making this clear to you: Fundamentalist Christians and Mormons (among others) teach children that they already are rapists.
Children who don't grow up in this kind of environment are taught that that kind of violence is unacceptable. They aren't taught restraint, rather that those behaviors are socially repugnant.
And guess who ends up being a rapist?
No, it's the fundies.
[deleted] · 0 points · Posted at 05:01:49 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
kmcg27 · 1 points · Posted at 13:58:02 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not what I meant at all. It works both ways. My brother was never sat down and taught restraint, but was taught what any person should be taught, respect of other people no matter how they look or who they are. Though I find it sad that the minute a woman talks about male restraint it's "feminism." I don't identify as anything, just feel religion puts most of the pressure on the female. I grew up in a Catholic house and the church never really told my brother many rules but I, as a woman, had a ton. It was bs.
sevenswansdead · 43 points · Posted at 21:32:15 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
As an ex-mormon: yep, this is about right. I don't know that I ever saw this concept so clearly written out, but standards of "modest dress" are only applied to women. Men are assumed to be raging sex-lunatics who cannot control themselves. Women are pure and asexual until marriage, and then have the fun responsibility of rearing children until they can no longer produce them.
Related anecdote: a Mormon friend of mine would throw pool parties at his house in high school. His mother would throw oversized t-shirts on any girls who showed up in anything more revealing than one-piece bathing suits. If the girls did not comply, they were asked to leave. The guys, though, nothing. No dress policies, no creepy supervision, nothing.
judyblue_ · 16 points · Posted at 23:21:11 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
But don't worry, because after all your babymaking parts shrivel up you get to look forward to the afterlife, where you'll get to rear more and more children forever and ever until the end of time itself.
sevenswansdead · 9 points · Posted at 23:54:34 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nice point, yes, women actually only get a 40-or-so year break -- then back to doing what they do best: making babies!
abhikavi · 6 points · Posted at 03:28:12 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not really though, because by the time they're done having children they're becoming grandmothers (if they've done things right, you know, married at 18 and started popping out kids, and brought their kids up to do the same), so they've got to help raise their grandkids. They have, at most, a 2-5 year break from changing diapers.
sevenswansdead · 5 points · Posted at 06:51:27 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ha, that is true. I suppose I'm not exactly sure the nitty-gritty details of celestial child-rearing, but I was referring to a 40-year break from vaginal childbirth.
Anyway, I imagine being a grandparent is a lot of the positive aspects of parenting without a lot of the negative aspects (though you're right about the diapers).
[deleted] · 12 points · Posted at 21:52:09 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I have long time Mormon friends. (magic underwear and everything) Women bear and raise children; men earn. They're kinda like Gypsies.
sillymerricat · 7 points · Posted at 04:02:21 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I was Mormon until I was 12. We had a swim party prior to going to Young Women's camp, so that they could make sure our swim wear was modest enough. (High enough neckline and not too revealing above the thighs). I remember later being at that camp and walking to the swim area wearing my Celestial Kingdom approved one piece and long to the knee shorts. I got stopped on the way by a leader and told that I was too revealing and needed to put a shirt on until I got to the swim area.
rubyred138 · 2 points · Posted at 08:45:49 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well yeah, who do you think you are just walking around showing off your ankles?
Calistilaigh · 2 points · Posted at 13:36:21 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Are you sure it's not a Regional thing or something? I come from a (half) Mormon family and I've never heard of anything like this at all. In fact, all the Mormons I know would find this really weird.
sevenswansdead · 1 points · Posted at 18:40:00 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It could be a regional thing. This occurred in the American South, and the family in my story is a very well-to-do, large Utah family. Having been raised in Utah (where 40% of Mormons live), I can honestly say that it would surprise me that many Mormons there would find this weird. Congregations in the Northeast and around major cities tend to be more liberal, but bikinis and the like are still not kosher. Here's a 1983 article that has undoubtedly affected LDS swimwear culture, and here is a more recent article that shows some progress is occurring.
My first paragraph was blunter than the Mormon church would ever personally say, but very accurately represents their doctrine and policies concerning women. Straight from the LDS website:
I am actually fairly confident that most Mormons would not think this is really weird (though they would object to my wording). Some more progressive Mormons strongly disagree with this kind of thinking, but few would actually deny that this is the prevalent culture within Mormonism.
Mormons don't really talk about these doctrines, policies, and cultural norms outside of church. The image they portray (kind, happy, family-centric, albeit kind of weird in their worship) is not completely false, but again, Mormons don't go around talking about controversial aspects of their religion. They want to convert literally everybody–their end-goal is to spread their religion to every corner of the earth.
They're not stupid. They know they're not going to succeed in their world domination if everybody knows of all the sexist double standards that exist in church policy, or, say, that Joseph Smith married 14-year-old girls.
krepitus · 61 points · Posted at 21:26:55 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Organized religion is terrified of women.
rhod0psin · 44 points · Posted at 21:38:48 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think a lot of men are terrified of women. Look at gamergate and the SJW stuff. There are some horrific things being said by people who aren't even trying to stay anonymous, simply because they are concerned about 'journalistic ethics'?
AngelicDirt · 3 points · Posted at 22:55:47 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Can we just NOT. Because both sides were more than a little dumb on that.
rhod0psin · 5 points · Posted at 23:23:24 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
OK, you're right. Make it journalistic ethics without quotes, my point remains...
(I only picked those because they are the most apparent sign at the moment of sexual abuse being threatened against countless women, daily, most of whom are just trying to do what they want in a field that men seem bizarrely threatened by the idea of them being in. It's perverse, and it's sad. And I can't fathom the kind of cowards who are so insecure as to belittle another person so much, let alone cause them actual fear even if they might have genuinely made a mistake. Seriously. "Can we NOT"? You mean can we not question it continuing because it might have started out a bit muddy? Seriously.)
OhioGozaimasu · -7 points · Posted at 04:56:08 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The point being that both sides are to blame for this stupidity. Gamergate fucked up by going into harassment mode when it initially blew up. Instead of, you know, being the bigger person and trying to open a dialogue and sort everything out, SJWs retaliated with more harassment and outright lying. It doesn't help that they rally around known liars and pot-stirrers that are just in it for the money.
Neither side has clean hands.
RedCat1529 · 3 points · Posted at 03:55:26 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This little poem would not be out of place in a fundamentalist Islamic text book.
h-v-smacker · 1 points · Posted at 04:39:11 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nope, they don't give a shit about women in particular. It's just handy to make people feel guilty about everything to make them stick with religion. Making all men believe they are born rapist and only through the religious teaching can overcome it is very good for religious business. It's pretty much like saying men have an incurable disease and only hospital X has a drug that can prolong their lives given their condition.
TheObstruction · 19 points · Posted at 23:48:16 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I love how religion basically makes males out to be completely at the whim of their primal urges, unable to exert even the slightest bit of control over themselves. And yet somehow males should obviously be in charge of everything.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 04:45:01 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, of course. That is what God intended with his divine plan, Dummy!
sudo_grep · 68 points · Posted at 19:40:42 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Dumb fucking logic especially since we all show our faces everyday yet I somehow manage to go about my day without punching your bare naked nose into your fucking brain.
812many · 3 points · Posted at 22:56:12 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
My first thought, too. I mean really, you'll poke someone's eye out!
[deleted] · 8 points · Posted at 22:13:31 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sex has changed since I got married. Is this what the kids are doing now or is this a euphemism for pounded pus, rubbing uglys, laying pipe and so on?
DoctorShuckle · 18 points · Posted at 22:25:29 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I enjoy the feeling of vindication when seeing these things. Leaving that church was hard at first, but now looks like the most obvious thing in the world.
2Heismans · 45 points · Posted at 17:43:40 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Go read, "Under the Banner of Heaven" these people are like the American Taliban.
[deleted] · 50 points · Posted at 17:49:23 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I've read it, but it's important to make the distinction between the LDS and FLDS church. FLDS? Absolutely the American Taliban. LDS? Kind of just dicks, but definitely not Taliban level.
actual_factual_bear · 10 points · Posted at 22:32:40 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
What's the difference between FLDS and LDS? About a hundred and fifty years...
Not_To_Smart · 6 points · Posted at 02:19:47 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The difference is that the LDS church is better at revising its doctrine to fit society's definition of acceptable and whitewashing the rest. If they were as fundamental as the FLDS they'd have less followers and more legal attention, which isn't as profitable.
h-v-smacker · 1 points · Posted at 04:32:38 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The difference is the letter F. It even smells like letter F...
mytroc · 15 points · Posted at 20:13:52 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think it's also important to make the distinction between the Taliban and Al Qaeda: the Taliban lived quite peacefully alongside non-believers but once they got enough power, all their crazies jumped over into Al Qaeda and started killing all infidels.
I see precisely the same dynamic in LDS and FLDS.
ceciltech · 16 points · Posted at 20:48:13 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Citation needed! My understanding is the taliban was brutal to anyone who didn't follow their strict sharia law.
joycamp · 1 points · Posted at 07:49:35 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The Taliban were religious nut jobs independent of Al Qeada.
JakeDC · 1 points · Posted at 01:47:53 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Y'all Queda
[deleted] · 34 points · Posted at 20:30:31 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Typical backward, backwater, religious thinking. Combine this lovely specimen of dangerous thought with the fact that religious people also seem to think without god we would all be murderers and sodomites and you distinctly get the impression that truly religious people are just maniac rapists.
If you really can't control yourself except by the grace of god, then you are probably better off living in solitude as a monk or in a ditch. Sorry if that seems harsh (not really tho).
j0nny5 · 3 points · Posted at 04:04:31 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I've worked with more than one Born Again Christian. One guy in particular bragged about all of the underage girls he "banged" during his Navy service in the Philippines, how he got injury leave for jumping off a jeep after splitting a 8 ball with some buddies, just all this unsolicited bragging about shitty things he did. In the next breath, he'd ask me if he could "pray on" me getting a raise I was going to ask for. After I politely declined, he stopped spooling me Cat 6 cable (we were wiring new switches and patch panels, I was up a ladder pushing cable through a conduit) and proceeded to close his eyes and put his arms out and start into this fucking loud schpiel about "Jesus our lord and loving savior, bless this man and show him your light through his sinful ways blah blah blah". The hypocrisy of those folks is astounding, and yes, some of them more or less admit that "finding Christ" keeps them "from falling to sin".
If it wasn't for this imaginary "hot place", and potentially angering a giant sky man, they'd be doing the horrible shit they'd been doing before their "conversion". I don't even.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 12:49:12 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Then when you look at the catholic church it's easy to see even in some of the highest positions they still don't keep to their morality. If anything some religion is a convenient excuse to avoid guilt, once you believe you are forgiven you don't actually even have to apologize or make your mistakes right.
j0nny5 · 1 points · Posted at 20:30:21 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
12 years of Catholic school here. You are 100% correct.
LovesaNewfie · 13 points · Posted at 21:52:02 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
WTF. Religion freaks me out. Honestly, religion freaks me the fuck out. Hey, I try not to judge but fuck.........
If this is considered normal....... I have never been so happy not to be normal!!!!
Maven0004 · 27 points · Posted at 16:32:56 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
In the future, everything Mormon will be a special advertising section of Esquire. Amen.
[deleted] · 22 points · Posted at 16:39:12 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
nameajeeschrisamen
baconparadox · 9 points · Posted at 22:15:12 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Anblessdahansthatpreparedthismeal
[deleted] · 7 points · Posted at 23:58:07 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Mayitstrengthenannourishourbody
jeeschrisamen · 3 points · Posted at 00:01:25 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
nameisjeeschrisamen?
[deleted] · 6 points · Posted at 00:24:42 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Whooooooaa, are you who they've always been talking about?!
jeeschrisamen · 1 points · Posted at 05:01:58 on January 21, 2016 · (Permalink)
yeahman
DoctorButler · 39 points · Posted at 20:28:46 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Rape Apologism 101
greyfade · 32 points · Posted at 23:09:35 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I wouldn't say that, exactly.
More like "Rape Indoctrination 101."
They're not saying rape is okay. They're just saying that you're already a rapist, and you can't do much about that unless women cover up their sexy, sexy ankles.
A minor distinction, but an important one, IMO.
What you're seeing here is rape culture, not rape apology.
h-v-smacker · 1 points · Posted at 04:37:06 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's not rape culture, lol. It's religious indoctrination. Specifically, forcing people to believe they are somehow internally flawed to evoke constant feeling of guilt. Afterwards, the church will present itself and its services as the only way out. Pretty much spiritual racket.
After all, if it WAS rape culture, then what would have changed? Men are told they are rapey, and they say "yeah, we know" — and go on with their rapey lives, that's what would have happened in a rape culture. The very fact that such proclamation evokes guilt and shame is the best proof there is NO rape culture.
greyfade · 1 points · Posted at 17:42:39 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Not by default, no.
I mean to say that religion, especially fundamentalism, is a culture of rape.
h-v-smacker · 2 points · Posted at 18:08:29 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
With that I can agree.
cheezy88 · 2 points · Posted at 05:46:09 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Reminds me of the grapist
mike112769 · 13 points · Posted at 22:24:48 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
This is just wrong. That reasoning sounds like it came straight from the isis playbook. This must be why they claim the only thing keeping women from being raped all of the time is the bible says not to do it. This is just treating women as if they're animals, and not Human Beings.
exploderator · 3 points · Posted at 23:03:26 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Technically we are "just animals", but fortunately we are animals with sophisticated brains, and we need to learn and be encouraged to use them well. The entire problem with this primitive thinking is it treats men like stupid animals too, instead of teaching them how and why they need to exercise self restraint. Of course we will often want to touch the women, that is natural and true. What defines us humans is that we can learn to moderate our own behavior, we can learn to only touch others when they want us to, and we can learn to listen to their words so that we ask nicely first, and do not proceed when the answer is NO. Learning that level of self restraint and responsibility is a minimum standard for civilized behavior, and sadly many of these religions would rather teach barbaric standards.
DerEwigeKatzendame · 1 points · Posted at 02:25:29 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
don'ttouchthegirls.gif
abhikavi · 2 points · Posted at 03:31:08 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
And barely. In the same way the other 'property damage' is unacceptable.
Ah yep! There's that good old Biblical message.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 04:49:45 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
If you rape her, you have to buy her!!! Damaged goods!
pumpalumpagain · 2 points · Posted at 04:39:32 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
As far as I can tell the bible is pretty pro rape- Judges 21:10-24
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 04:46:32 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Well, women are property, after all. Haven't you been reading your scripture? Shame on you!
DuesCataclysmos · 14 points · Posted at 04:06:29 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's infuriating and frustrating
When you're a regular guy
But get lectured like you're liable to assault
Any pretty girl that catches your eye
So please, it doesn't matter if you've got an incredible bust
And an ass that fills my mind with thoughts of passion and lust
Since I'm not a degenerate scumbag without a brain in his head
I'll just go home and watch some porno instead
jerslan · 1 points · Posted at 05:31:28 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Relevant
michaelb65 · 11 points · Posted at 22:42:42 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So not only does this poem blame female rape victims for dressing too scandalous, but it also implies that men just have a natural urge for molestation. Such a weird, fucked up poem.
What's it with religion and fear mongering?
electrikskies1 · 1 points · Posted at 15:04:16 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Religion is like politics. Scare them into being controlled.
Betahan74 · 11 points · Posted at 21:25:31 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Teaching boys to be assholes.. good job!
[deleted] · 9 points · Posted at 23:03:41 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Boys can not be domesticated, it's true! They're just animals with no control over their filthy sex penises. You must hide your shameful fleshy prostitute's shoulders or all boys in your class will go all Cologne on you.
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 04:52:09 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah, and you deserved it for being attractive!! Those poor boys. May God have mercy on their souls, after you tempted them by existing!
paasaaplease · 11 points · Posted at 23:43:59 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Great. Let's teach our young men no accountability for sexual harassment, and teach our young women to hate their bodies. Effed.
AlisUnicornFarm · 8 points · Posted at 21:00:25 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And if you touch it, you're going to prison. Control yourself yuh freak.
PlushPlushSwag · 15 points · Posted at 21:29:30 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
And so another religion bore another generation of rapists.
Campbellzc · 16 points · Posted at 20:17:13 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think my IQ would drop just by being in that class...
fooey · 21 points · Posted at 21:52:36 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's largely the point
Hence leaders saying "doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith" and "Some things that are true are not very useful"
camopdude · 5 points · Posted at 22:27:40 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Did they give examples of true but not useful things?
fooey · 10 points · Posted at 22:40:40 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
The context was regarding church history
He was telling historians not to discuss the parts of church history that are bad or embarrassing
4th paragraph under https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyd_K._Packer#Teachings_and_legacy
Full context starts on page 3 here: https://si.lds.org/bc/seminary/content/library/talks/ces-symposium-addresses/the-mantle-is-far-far-greater-than-the-intellect_eng.pdf
In recent years the church has realized this policy has been devastating since the truth is easily available to everyone, and people rightfully feel deceived when they get the whole story. That's the theory on why they've been regularly publishing official essays admitting a lot of things that have been avoided: http://mormonessays.com/
camopdude · 3 points · Posted at 03:58:04 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Thanks, I've looked into Mormon apologetics before, along with, if I recall correctly, the CES(?) letter and online project. It's amazing the mental gymnastics they have to perform to hold these demonstrably false beliefs, especially when it comes to pre-Columbian American history.
Unknow0059 · 7 points · Posted at 20:52:48 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
What the fuck? This is wrong in so many ways. In front of a fucking classroom too.
narsty · 9 points · Posted at 21:33:56 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Title of the slide reminds of the rockbiter in the never ending story
Random thoughts....
[deleted] · 4 points · Posted at 21:52:55 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Now I'm depressed. :(
Shockeye0 · 8 points · Posted at 03:39:14 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Who the fuck thinks that boys are automatically going to physically leap on top of a girl just because she shows a little skin? Oh, right, the raping pedophiles that make up that cult.
purpleRN · 31 points · Posted at 17:13:04 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
My high school boyfriend used to share similar hilarious things from Cemetery. Never change, Mormons....
Makenshine · 15 points · Posted at 19:17:04 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Do you mean seminary? Cemeteries are places where you bury the dead, seminaries are religious schools.
purpleRN · 45 points · Posted at 19:21:31 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It was the nickname they gave the classes, since it was at ass o'clock in the morning, and everyone was pretty much a zombie.
ceciltech · 6 points · Posted at 20:42:43 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Did you mean 8 o'clock in the morning because ass o'clock is.... Well I have no idea what it is but I don't think o want the know.
HairyMooseKnickers · 13 points · Posted at 20:49:36 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think in this case ass o'clock refers to the awful hour of about 6 a.m. Sometimes 5:45 if your teacher was an ass. Hence....ass o'clock.
djasonwright · 9 points · Posted at 21:02:29 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ass o'clock falls somewhere between oh-dark-thirty and morning, I think.
Mackem101 · 5 points · Posted at 21:15:27 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
It comes about half an hour after stupid O'clock.
dogfish83 · 4 points · Posted at 21:27:15 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm more of a boob o'clock guy myself. I heard that changes as you get older though.
jarfil · 1 points · Posted at 23:02:00 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You heard wrong, you don't get older.
wbgraphic · 3 points · Posted at 22:51:54 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Immediately follows the ass-crack of dawn.
Makenshine · 1 points · Posted at 19:34:24 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ah, got ya
BizarroBednar · 10 points · Posted at 20:48:27 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Having attended that mind-numbing hell, cemetery is a perfectly appropriate moniker.
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 21:13:45 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
This is what happened
[deleted] · 14 points · Posted at 21:54:28 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
fakemoose · 4 points · Posted at 22:20:16 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I didn't know some Mormons thought that. I thought that was other fundie christian branches like where I accidentally ended up for private school for a whole day.
judyblue_ · 1 points · Posted at 23:25:34 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, no, your seminary teacher was preaching false doctrine. Every good mormon knows that what really happened was that when Jehovah was building the Earth, he just reached into the bargain bin of parts from other worlds that weren't being used anymore and just kinda smushed them all together, and the dinosaur bones were aliens from those other worlds that got scooped up in the process. You know, like when you create a giant ball of all the scraps of Play-Doh and somehow there's a liopleurodon tooth suddenly stuck in there. Happens to the best of us.
[deleted] · 8 points · Posted at 22:03:25 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
This cult should be disbanded.
[deleted] · 7 points · Posted at 22:32:23 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ex-mormon. It gets far worse.
Ua_Tsaug · 2 points · Posted at 05:27:06 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Exactly. This is just a small taste of what happens in this cult.
cheezy88 · 1 points · Posted at 05:49:13 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
???? Like
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 10:36:49 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Feeling so guilty about sexuality, masturbation specifically, that you want to kill yourself because you'll never be good enough. Losing 6 different friends to suicide in 2 years, etcetera.
Lone peak highschool, if you want verifiable sources.
cheezy88 · 1 points · Posted at 05:46:30 on January 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wait!? You had two friends who killed themselves because they felt bad for masturbating???
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 05:56:09 on January 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
No, that was me. Not a good experience.
[deleted] · 5 points · Posted at 21:15:11 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
they still teach you to tie your hands to the bedposts so you don't masturbate?
undefinedmonkey · 8 points · Posted at 22:07:07 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I feel like you'd lose the urge trying to figure out how to tie the other hand down.
[deleted] · 7 points · Posted at 21:26:42 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus said blame the victims! Not much different here than fundamentalist Islam.
obievil · 6 points · Posted at 21:40:43 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
sarcasm Because this isn't promoting rape culture at all.. nope perfectly innocent.
bexyrex · 5 points · Posted at 01:41:53 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's rapey.... Even outside a religious crazy context if someone wrote me a poem like that and sent it to me I'd feel fucking threatened and harassed. I'm sorry if you don't cover up ma'am I'm gonna be tempted to fuck you because I have no self control. I mean come on. That's fucking victim blaming at its finest
[deleted] · 7 points · Posted at 03:17:13 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This is just small scale of what Muslims in the middle east learn - temptation is bad, so avoid it because you don't want to give in to your base urges, and if you do it isn't your fault for having no self control...
How fucking shameful. We are not animals, we shouldn't be teaching our children that they are no better than that.
[deleted] · 5 points · Posted at 03:28:00 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
Rustythepipe · 1 points · Posted at 08:00:20 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I like with you
Khalbrae · 10 points · Posted at 19:36:05 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The whole inseminary concept sounds pretty rapey.
PlushPlushSwag · 9 points · Posted at 21:39:26 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Crazy how laws don't apply to men in religion. Sparkly things make me wanna touch the but by some religious law my hand should be cut off if I take something that's not mine! But hey... Patriarchy, amiright?
thunderhawk227 · 5 points · Posted at 20:44:01 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Fuck people and their bullshit imaginary friends that tell them to judge other people based on ancient morality.
MeowieTex · 4 points · Posted at 22:08:55 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Fuck these fuckers.
[deleted] · 6 points · Posted at 23:04:43 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hold on, is this telling the young boys with big strong hands to cover themselves or be raped, or are they asking girls to cover up or be raped?
This person's power point narrative game be weak as fuck.
judyblue_ · 3 points · Posted at 23:36:01 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
My presumption, based on my own experience with the utter stupidity that is LDS seminary, is that it's a song called "You Have Two Big Strong Hands", and that the young men are supposed to sing this verse. The girls' verse is probably all about how their big strong hands should be used to make me a damn sandwich.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 00:27:56 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Oh... Man and I thought normal christian seminary was bad. At least they never sang rape songs. At least, not that I knew of.
ruca316 · 5 points · Posted at 01:16:05 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What. The. Fuck.
THIS is why I became an atheist.
Well, not entirely but this shit had something to do with it.
LAULitics · 6 points · Posted at 01:20:04 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
My repressed lust for a glimpse of ass,
so desperate, pathetic, isolated, and crass.
That if tempted for even a moment,
I might completely collapse.
I'm Mormon by faith,
and I'm Mormon by schlong.
But should I act like a savage,
It's cause a women did wrong.
[deleted] · 5 points · Posted at 02:28:42 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[deleted]
fattail · 1 points · Posted at 04:24:55 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
She wouldn't have been outside if she didn't want it.
Error302 · 5 points · Posted at 03:40:39 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
clearly this must be why they hate gays. if straight men get to think and act that way towards women, wouldn't it follow that gay men are entitled to act the same way towards other men? =P
Merari01 · 3 points · Posted at 07:46:33 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You make a jokey emoticon but you touch upon a truth.
Someone once said that: "Homophobia is the fear of being treated by other men the same way that the homophobes themselves treat women."
Which is why it is often those who think of women as objects who are the biggest gay-haters.
Error302 · 3 points · Posted at 08:12:24 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
i find that's actually a bit of a recurring theme with me. say something that makes for both a decent joke but at the same time kind of profound. somehow i think people "get it" far less than i'd hope. truth be told i really do think this is what is actually going on. i'm sure if you asked any of them, they'd all point to scripture, but deep down they're actually acting out of fear of this exact scenario.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 05:19:43 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wow... what a concept! You may be on to something there. ;)
Rustythepipe · 1 points · Posted at 07:59:41 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This is a really good thought. Sadly I think it's probably just because the bible says gays should die. Religious people generally don't think deeply about the taboo pieces of scripture.
Rustythepipe · 4 points · Posted at 03:44:48 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Pretty insulting that people believe I as a man cannot control myself when I see skin.
FEEZYdoesIT · 5 points · Posted at 05:50:49 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I've never understood why women have to cover up so men don't touch. If the problem is the touch, then perhaps you should wear hand cuffs dude. It's this male attitude that upests me most as a man. Keep your hands to yourself dickbags....
mgkimsal · 3 points · Posted at 05:58:17 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
compounding that, there's this cultural attitude that certain types of clothing and dress and makeup are "attractive" and "tempt" men, but... many guys I know (myself included) have different tastes, and the typical "oh she looks like slut! let's pass judgement!" stereotype just doesn't really do it for me. If a women dresses like a modest librarian from the 60s, and that's what turns someone on, was she "asking for it" then too?
FEEZYdoesIT · 1 points · Posted at 06:32:19 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Bruh, fo sho 60s librarian modest type gonna get a tip..of my hat with a "hey how are ya!'
Kwaker76 · 5 points · Posted at 11:50:56 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Mormonism - making excuses for sexual assault since 1830...
TopScruffy · 9 points · Posted at 20:57:58 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
PSA: if they have seminary where you live, you can use it as a "free" period. They're not allowed to give school credit, so if they offer it during normal periods this means you can get enough credits to graduate with a period off every semester. In high school my friends and I would get out of school everyday at 1:45 it was glorious, praise be to the Latter Day Saints.
judyblue_ · 2 points · Posted at 23:33:17 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
My school's registrar didn't allow it. It was called "release time", so technically you were released from the school, but they treated it like a non-credit elective and would only let you sign up for it if you were registered for seminary. So the non-mormon kids (or mormon kids who didn't take seminary, which was practically nonexistent) would graduate with 4 more credit hours than the ones who took seminary. It was fucked up.
EDIT: I just remembered - I think the other option was that they could sign up for "release time" if they were doing work-study or an internship. But they had to have something, they couldn't just be set free.
TopScruffy · 3 points · Posted at 23:42:13 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Was it an open campus? For example were you allowed to drive to Wendy's or McDonalds for lunch? Ours was just called "release time" too but we had an open campus so they couldn't keep us there.
judyblue_ · 2 points · Posted at 23:44:39 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yeah, it was an open campus. But they still wouldn't let you sign out of school for a class period if you didn't have a legitimate "excuse", like seminary or an internship.
TopScruffy · 2 points · Posted at 23:51:00 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ah that's shitty. My school was pretty lax about a lot of stuff, my sophomore year there wasn't even an attendance policy (if you can pass the class, doesn't matter how much you miss). They implemented mandatory "make-up time" my junior year though so we figured out pretty quick how to game "release time".
XelaTheGeek · 5 points · Posted at 20:56:36 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
yeah i dont miss this
ksiyoto · 4 points · Posted at 21:05:47 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
So it's okay for the guys to touch if she shows?
[deleted] · 3 points · Posted at 21:47:06 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
This is why they grow up to sexual and relationship dolts.
SteamandDream · 4 points · Posted at 22:42:21 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Did you misspell Islamic?
Space0d1n · 5 points · Posted at 23:21:31 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Fucking christ, this is the rapiest of written rape culture I've seen outside of actual commands to commit rape.
ShermanBallZ · 4 points · Posted at 23:42:49 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
They look like big, good, strong hands. Don't they? I always thought that's what they were. My little friends... I couldn't hold on to them... I failed... They look like big, good, strong hands. Don't they?
BallPtPenTheif · 1 points · Posted at 00:06:53 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Everybody move along, there's the nothing to see here.
granadesnhorseshoes · 4 points · Posted at 23:46:45 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
An old nursery rhyme
that now's a terrible crime.
The lesson it teaches,
much quicker than speeches,
is perceptional changes from time.
Dire87 · 4 points · Posted at 00:24:01 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yea, and they say young muslim men get overwhelmed by anything that isn't a Burka...
Joba_Fett · 4 points · Posted at 01:09:38 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
They do look like big strong hands...don't they?
kredal · 2 points · Posted at 01:49:19 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Neverending Story reference. Nice.
akm69 · 3 points · Posted at 02:10:03 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Talk about giving permission to be a dick
glutenfreethenipple · 3 points · Posted at 03:04:10 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What the actual fuck.
Hup234 · 4 points · Posted at 03:08:31 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Religion is for numbskulls.
IG989 · 4 points · Posted at 07:00:55 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Awesome, teach kids it's OK to rape women if they're showing any skin.... This world gets more retarded by the day.
bugeja · 4 points · Posted at 13:51:16 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Translation: Their men have zero self control. And if something happens, it's the woman's fault for showing too much.
I guess they should all move to Saudi Arabia and feel right at home then.
flickerkuu · 6 points · Posted at 23:43:11 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
This crap is child abuse.
Children don't get the choice to believe in man made stupid dipshit crap like oh, Mormonism. The problem is, it effects them. It molds them.
What about the millions of kids in the middle east who just memorize the Koran every day instead of you know, useful shit that can apply to their life?
These kids should be in woodshop, home ec, auto repair, or even friggin basket weaving. All of those things will help them in life. This will hurt them in life.
What a joke, it's not like they aren't going to have 7 kids in 2 years when they marry. Jeez.
TheGhostofWoodyAllen · 3 points · Posted at 21:30:15 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
The Thomas Kinkade background is a nice tough.
cjh57 · 3 points · Posted at 21:49:36 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
But if I can't help it, I'll pull up your dress. Then pull down your panties, And enter your nest.... God knows the rest
BloodyKrampus · 3 points · Posted at 22:37:58 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
They look like big good strong hands
well_golly · 3 points · Posted at 01:24:00 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
lilrabbitfoofoo · 3 points · Posted at 01:56:12 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Now, LDS boys,
when you rape a young lass,
Go find your bishop.
He'll cover your ass.
Spacegod87 · 3 points · Posted at 01:58:33 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
"Oh, you wanna wear that skirt? Sorry, Johnny won't be able to control himself, and even though that's his issue, it's now yours as well because you had the audacity to come out of your mothers womb as a girl."
Shawndetic · 3 points · Posted at 02:58:23 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's shit like this that made me leave the church.
GeneticsGuy · 3 points · Posted at 03:33:30 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hey! Mormon here... Just want to say that I remember seeing some older people talk about "modesty" as a teenager and I remember the emphasis was more on how you want people to think of you, thus you should dress to reflect how you would like to be respected, for your brain or your body.
BUT!!!
I do actually remember occasionally this type of logic creeping in on a "Oh and women, you hurt men and make it difficult for them to obey the "Law of Chastity" if you show too much skin. In other words, women are seductresses by nature if that's what you can get out of it.
BS, I agree.
Fortunately, the leaders have instructed teachers to avoid that type of educational approach in recent years, but it seems like here, the message has not fully gotten across, sadly.
But I am right there with you guys that this is not just cringeworthy, but fairly offensive, and I am just saying you'll find a fair share of Mormons that disagree with this teacher.
Side note for fun: It always seemed like the Women leaders that preached the whole concept of how men can't control themselves if women show too much skin. I don't remember any of my male youth leaders saying that, but I do remember female speakers mentioning it.
cmasey1410 · 3 points · Posted at 04:02:34 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The problem is that the older people still hold this mentality and they are still the ones in power. It is why that woman got excommunicated when she asked for equal treatment in the clergy.
If there were younger peoples that grew up in the modern world rather than the 1950s things wouldnt be as harsh. Most of the religious people are older and it is younger fighting against that.
Now, to keep this in perspective, I dont think very highly of mormonism, but Id much rather have a person such as you in society then assclowns that put up things like this.
Apoplecticmiscreant · 3 points · Posted at 03:43:53 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Love how it's a weird poem with a super cheesy Thomas Kinkade background. Seems to be what a 70 year old thought was a good idea.
shawnesty · 3 points · Posted at 04:58:48 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
In my seminary class we had Donny Osmand come perform Soldier of Love before his comeback...obviously they didn't show thr NSFS music video. Guess we had a liberal seminary class.
MuzzleBlast · 3 points · Posted at 11:50:52 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I can't believe people teach this shit. This is just placing the blame for rape on the victim not the perpetrator. Seriously how fucking stupid. I am disgusted this goes on in our society.
CreepyEmily · 3 points · Posted at 12:31:59 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Dear Mormons, please don't do this shit. Just don't. Ok? Do it no more. You are SO WRONG. So. Wrong.
Calistilaigh · 3 points · Posted at 13:29:40 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm an atheist, who grew up in a mormon family (my parents are very understanding and accepting of my decision, my stepdad isn't mormon either) and there was nothing like this in Seminary when I went. It's more of a curriculum that teachers can make themselves than anything the church itself teaches, so I wouldn't say this represents all Mormons. Then again, I live on the East coast, and most Mormons I've met here seem to be more laid back about their religion, which is pretty cool
brideofdatass · 4 points · Posted at 02:00:04 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Teach men to control themselves and show respect. Don't tell women that they should be uncomfortable showing their body.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 05:26:39 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Aw... but self restraint requires effort! Think about those poor boys and their testosterone. The girls do not have all of that testosterone, so it is only sensible that they bear the burden in order to support those poor boys! Supporting the boys is also good practice for the time when it is their divinely appointed duty to be "help mates" to the master of their households! Do you even scripture?
screw_the_primitives · 2 points · Posted at 22:03:16 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Fucking weaklings
horsefarm · 2 points · Posted at 22:32:20 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Fucking Disgusting.
Schrowdinger · 2 points · Posted at 23:18:06 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
are the "two big strong hands" for jacking it?
AvatarIII · 2 points · Posted at 23:30:45 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
This is so disrespectful. Like men can't control themselves, what bullshit. Maybe some men can't, but why should everyone suffer because a few men can't control themselves!
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 05:31:17 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because divinely inspired scripture makes it clear that women are not people. They are property, like donkeys and pigs and such.
pistonpants · 2 points · Posted at 23:40:47 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
This should be in /r/WTF too
Entheogenix85 · 2 points · Posted at 23:53:25 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
aaahhhh religion..... where would we be without it?
redditeyedoc · 2 points · Posted at 00:06:32 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Once more the Sith will rule the Galaxy!
phlobbit · 2 points · Posted at 00:25:19 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Seems equal parts medieval rap track and medieval rape reasons.
GOP55 · 2 points · Posted at 00:27:38 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sounds like the Cologne governer
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 01:08:40 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Lots of religions are all about unnatural repression of natural sexuality.
Drakeytown · 2 points · Posted at 01:17:59 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus fucking Christ that is rapey.
Oh_Help_Me_Rhonda · 2 points · Posted at 02:31:36 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Holy Shit
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 03:10:05 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
something more people should think about
filologo · 2 points · Posted at 04:08:57 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's definitely not normal to be this brazen. Not even a little bit. But it likely wouldn't be questioned.
Either way, we should call it out as the disgusting behavior that it is.
AllHisDarkMaterials · 2 points · Posted at 05:40:33 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
They must have a hard time going to the zoo.
energirl · 2 points · Posted at 06:02:56 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So............... how about every part of you that is showing I get to kick? Better wear long pants!
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 06:05:47 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This is really getting to me. The first problem I had with this (I had several) immediately after seeing it is that the statement "You have two big strong hands" suggests the power is with the man, yet the poem below states the power is with the woman. Apparently, a man can touch whatever he likes, and a woman must cover herself because this is a just and predictable action? If a man is stronger than a woman (theoretically--this isn't always the case), he can do whatever he wants, and so covering oneself to avoid distraction would then be futile; why not teach that a man should exercise self-responsibility and control?
A second question: how do men and women within a Mormon community relate to each other? I don't mean actual relationships, as in romantic or platonic, but how they interact--if a woman is taught, for example, that not dressing conservatively would provoke other men, what about men? Are they of the attitude they have the right to touch whatever is visible to them? (Even the face?)
xTachibana · 2 points · Posted at 06:22:14 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
so if this statement is taken literally, mormons think you can walk up to any girl in the street and touch her face or her hands? even if she was muslim, she wouldnt be wearing gloves right?
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 06:48:53 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Again with the 'boys just can't control themselves ' bs
AlexDSSF · 2 points · Posted at 06:58:24 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Men are horny no matter what, and women are whores no matter what. That sums up religion.
jwgarcia82 · 2 points · Posted at 08:52:14 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ah, nothing like good old fashioned victim blaming. How quaint. :/
pinkpastry · 2 points · Posted at 09:45:23 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
My best friend and I have known each other 15 years. I grew up Jehovah's Witness she was considered my bad influence purely because she didn't share the faith. I left at 17, and she converted to Mormonism at 23. Now I'm her bad influence. But 15 years we have survived, though we don't always see eye to eye on things, like this topic and the crazy things mormans do, we love each other.
Draskinn · 2 points · Posted at 09:52:15 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I swear the older I get the more I see religion as being really rapey.
Gorehog · 2 points · Posted at 09:59:49 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wow. That's like...teaching rape culture.
Someone should post this on r/redpill
baneofthebanshee · 2 points · Posted at 10:02:33 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Wait, so there's a Mormon rape culture? Didn't think rape culture existed.
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 10:15:41 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ah, yes, the good ol' victim-blaming.
EddieMcDowall · 2 points · Posted at 10:56:52 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Isn't incitement to sexual assault a crime in USA?
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 11:55:26 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This is dark
Brewe · 2 points · Posted at 13:45:03 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Jesus fucking Christ... Because he was wearing skimpy clothes.
d_overclocked · 2 points · Posted at 13:47:26 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
TIL: Mormons have too much free time.
Schnectadyslim · 2 points · Posted at 13:54:26 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This belongs in r/wtf
AiwassAeon · 2 points · Posted at 14:38:04 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ummm...no means yes, and yes means anal ?
chilehead · 2 points · Posted at 14:46:56 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Do mormons regularly go around putting their hands all over people's faces and eyes?
storybooks4life · 2 points · Posted at 14:53:25 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What in the actual fuck?
Hollowpoint- · 2 points · Posted at 15:45:55 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Fucking crazy people. Everywhere. Nothing but absolutely fucking crazy people.
warpfield · 2 points · Posted at 16:01:29 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
mmmm mormons. so fruity.
I've met a few, and some are definite whack jobs. :)
sweetgreggo · 2 points · Posted at 16:02:20 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I love the smell of victim shaming in the morning.
Freeiheit · 2 points · Posted at 17:34:30 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
As a man this offends me
Congruesome · 2 points · Posted at 19:09:11 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
'Cause men aren't capable of not assaulting women.
Bi-LinearTimeScale · 2 points · Posted at 19:49:48 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I've noticed that the religions with the most devout, fervent followers always have rules in place about how women must dress modestly, and that men will basically do whatever they want to them if they don't. Making someone wear a certain type of outfit out of fear of rape is ridiculous to start with, but do the men in these religions not have any morals or self control? How about focusing on teaching them that just because a girl isn't covered up, doesn't mean you have the right to fuck her if you want to. So many people act like animals and use their religion as an excuse. It's a crutch in every aspect of their lives.
Blue2095 · 2 points · Posted at 01:58:04 on January 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
I was raised into being Mormon until I was old enough to realize the concepts of the religion (like this seminary class) are absolutely absurd.
Never going back into that school of thought again...
astrobean · 4 points · Posted at 03:03:25 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
As a young Christian woman who was oblivious to the sexual signals I was apparently giving off, my efforts to dress modestly ended when I realized that men would undress me with their eyes no matter what I wear. Once, when wearing a shapeless bag-dress that went up to my neck and down to my ankles, a man twice my age told me I looked sexy. And he wanted to shower with me. And as he was someone I otherwise trusted, he got way farther than he should have. Well, shit. I didn't realize I was coming on so strong. Cue eternal fear of hugging anyone ever again.
Campbellzc · 3 points · Posted at 20:19:04 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
@ABTechie Just shows that the misogyny is great and that self control is AWOL. Just didn't realize how self evident and awfully demeaning it was...
dumfuq · 2 points · Posted at 21:13:48 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
You know you can just reply to the comment
Little_Mouse · 2 points · Posted at 01:57:31 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Go shove your finger up his nose. This is explicitly giving you permission to do so. They will complain, They will also try to say that this example is somehow different, but it will not be clear how.
macleod185 · 2 points · Posted at 23:27:58 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Mormons are fucking insane - American Taliban.
firebirdi · 1 points · Posted at 22:14:38 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Pentameter's broken, last 2 lines are 1 syllable too long.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 22:49:26 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I used to watch the Shaytards videos a lot but haven't kept up in a couple years. I know they are pretty devout Mormons and always wondered if they thought like this.
Gordopolis · 1 points · Posted at 23:08:56 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Did the instructor running this class create this slide? Or is this actually church approved and produced?
pchandler45 · 1 points · Posted at 23:31:25 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
RAGE
GeebusNZ · 1 points · Posted at 23:38:51 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Who the hell has the idea they can touch whatever they see? I mean, this sort of thing is clearly where the idea for it comes from.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:51:12 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
WHATYEARISIT.MEME
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:53:04 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
This was my Saturday morning that Mormon poem is right on.
ttll2012 · 1 points · Posted at 00:24:19 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sexual harassment class - how to do it.
Melonbomb · 1 points · Posted at 00:36:01 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Am I the only one haring this set to the tune of "Spaghetti and Meeeeatbaaalls, all covered with cheeese"?
picfan01 · 1 points · Posted at 00:48:20 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Yea you whores, Take note.
sydnius · 1 points · Posted at 01:02:33 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Do you want boners? Because this is how you get boners.
MonetaryExpert9 · 1 points · Posted at 01:23:19 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
no fucking way this has to be showing an example of how crazy it is not really meant to be used.
Aquareon · 1 points · Posted at 01:28:30 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Hehe Mormons
Hehe Mormonism
sipes216 · 1 points · Posted at 01:38:49 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Something something something rape.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 01:44:23 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
embarrassing.
theaxis12 · 1 points · Posted at 02:11:37 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
My dingus, wha wha what is it making me DOOOOOOOoooooooo?
HipHoboHarold · 1 points · Posted at 02:17:30 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This wasn't how our seminary class went. We didn't have a projector. Might have made things at least a little more interesting...
fromthesaveroom · 1 points · Posted at 02:31:31 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Isn't the sentence at the top a quote from the rock monster in The Never ending Story?
hashtaggnweaslepeckr · 1 points · Posted at 02:54:40 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Religion keeps it going, ....."god" was like , "hey, human. i'm going to teach you somthin, write this shit down..."
68696c6c · 1 points · Posted at 03:00:33 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I was raised Mormon and graduated from Mormon seminary. As much as I despise the church, I think that a lot of these comments here are a little uninformed.
In no way am I defending the Mormon church, but I really think this slide is bullshit. If it is actually from someone's seminary class, the teacher could probably get in trouble for deviating from the seminary lesson book. Seminary lessons, like pretty much everything else in the church, are meant to be uniform. The idea is that you could go to any meetinghouse anywhere and get the same doctrine and pretty much the same experience. You do not deviate from the lesson book, especially when you're being paid by the church to teach from it as is the case for seminary teachers. Lay people do often inject their own bullshit into their lessons, talks, etc, but that is not something you are supposed to do, so to me, the fault for that is not on the church itself, but on those individuals.
With all that in mind, this slide is definitely NOT part of the seminary curriculum that I ever saw and gender specific stuff was never a part of seminary anyways since it was co-ed. As far as I know, this isn't at all how my sisters or female friends were taught about modesty. The approach was more like "your body is a temple and you should respect it by not drinking, smoking, getting tattoos, having premarital sex, or dressing 'immodestly'. Immodesty is also taboo because you should avoid even the appearance of evil (i.e. dressing immodestly, whether you're whoring around or not, is the appearance of sin). The message I got was that avoiding sex was the responsibility of both genders and for young men, the emphasis was on respecting women, avoiding sexual thoughts, actions, etc. and going on a mission before you even think about marriage.
They also teach you that you and you alone are accountable for you actions. If a young man molested or raped a girl, what she was wearing would be irrelevant. Any victim blaming in that may occur in such a case would not be at all doctrinal. So while they are guilty of brainwashing kids and repressing everyone's sexuality, it's not like they are calling for the stoning of women who get raped or something.
Anyways, obviously this is directed at young women. I see people here condemning the church as sexist and I get that. People like to say the LDS church is sexist, but in my experience they don't treat men any better than they treat women. It would be more accurate to accuse them of confining everyone to strict traditional gender roles, which are not inherently sexist on their own, but disregard people's personal preferences and agency. They expect everyone to surrender their lives and sexuality to the will of the church. Women are held on a pedestal and treated like children while men are treated as a source of free labour (framed as 'service') and are expected to handle virtually all responsibilities. Women are expected to raise the children and men are expected to focus on serving the church. Yes, there is a hierarchy of 'authority' where women submit to their husbands, but men are to submit to the church. No one is supposed to think for themselves or live their own life. Everyone is treated like some sort of pervert that can barely be trusted with being around the opposite gender without supervision.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 09:35:46 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
exmormon here. While I agree with you in general the church has this thing where they act like porn is a male only issue so while they say everyone is some sort of perv, they act like men are doubly so.
68696c6c · 1 points · Posted at 11:42:51 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
True. My wife says that she never heard anything about porn or masturbation in church. We got it all the time though
trevdak2 · 1 points · Posted at 03:03:09 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
After seeing this video I always wanted to join a nearby mormon church, then bring a mormon priest or pastor or whatever they are to my best friends house and have a straight-faced masturbation intervention with him.
bangorthebarbarian · 1 points · Posted at 03:23:40 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Nonsense. You just have to stay an arm's length away, silly.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 03:42:24 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
https://youtu.be/aj-OpTHixpU?t=25s
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 03:44:35 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
What a shitty PowerPoint
Lorensoth3 · 1 points · Posted at 04:05:12 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ah yes, that random reminder that comes along to remind me why I don't want to go out into society.
Simontacchi · 1 points · Posted at 04:20:23 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
/r/TattooIdeas
McCromer · 1 points · Posted at 04:27:04 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ugh. My biggest regret in life is that I didn't skip seminary more.
Thehulk666 · 1 points · Posted at 04:54:12 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Bill Cosby was framed!
zetaspawn · 1 points · Posted at 05:10:13 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Early morning? That shits in your normal class schedule in Utah.
Kendallsan · 1 points · Posted at 05:58:33 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Weird. My Seminary classes had NOTHING like this. They were all discussions about Bible crap or parables or things that were relevant to our lives. We had REALLY cool teachers that we loved. We sortof brought one of them into our friend circle - we got him a surf shop sweatshirt - it was a big deal of acceptance and he loved it. (I'm from a surf town in CA. most of the class were surfers.)
This must be a Utah or Idaho class. Ridiculousness. It was bad enough in CA that I left the church at 15. I wonder if I would have made it past 12 in Utah...
blackjackandcoke88 · 1 points · Posted at 06:00:13 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The Thomas Kinkade-esque background is a nice touch.
CaptainReginaldLong · 1 points · Posted at 07:17:44 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'm more baffled by the "normal early morning mormon" bit---say it fast...try
Psychedelic_Dan · 1 points · Posted at 08:08:55 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
This is sexist! These children need to be immediately sent for re-programming to my early morning Post-Mormon inseminating class...
Mentioned_Videos · 1 points · Posted at 08:18:05 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
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Grudlann · 1 points · Posted at 09:48:58 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Sung by a RAPpist...
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 09:59:48 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I fail to see the connection to big strong hands, you wana cover up those strong hands to avoid temptation? is this refering to males not wearing long arm shirts??
EddieMcDowall · 1 points · Posted at 10:59:12 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I wonder if Mormons are any good at bomb disposal training?
Crushmaster · 1 points · Posted at 11:18:45 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I'd like to see some sources on this. A search of the lyrics brought up literally nothing.
Virginonimpossible · 1 points · Posted at 14:56:52 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You have two big powerful breasts
Make sure you cover them up because men have no sense of personal responsibility.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 15:17:40 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Is this a YMCA cover?
singularineet · 1 points · Posted at 16:11:28 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Although this idea is a common trope in patriarchal religions, I don't think that it in principle it requires a religious intellectual scaffolding. For example, I suspect Andrea Dwarkin would be in agreement with this message of female sartorial modesty in the face of insatiable male sexually urges---and her philosophy has no particular need for a deity.
doktormabuse · 1 points · Posted at 19:45:02 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
And the correct answer to that riddle? Burqa!
silentgiant87 · 1 points · Posted at 02:03:03 on January 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
Did anyone else read this to the tune of YMCA by the village people?
needstherapy · 1 points · Posted at 20:00:58 on January 11, 2016 · (Permalink)
It's weird how most religions make girls cover up cause their men cannot be trusted... If I was a religious man I'd be insulted.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:10:18 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I still don't get how people can take the word of an angel called Moron. You know, there must be something in that, right?
wallTHING · 1 points · Posted at 08:39:40 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Ah the smiles and the secret hate. Had a bunch of these weird fuckers in my town growing up. So happy to know they'll go to heaven and you're fucked.
deMondo · 0 points · Posted at 22:34:35 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Mormons making total fucking scum of kids. One of you shits lay a hand on my Vette and you'll wish you hadn't. It would be far worse for you to touch my my wife or daughter or son or myself. Do you not understand the limits of you space? I does not extend past your skin. Your religion and its teachers are setting you up for hard time behind bars. There, you will learn that you can't even touch another's sandwich without paying a painful price.
[deleted] · 0 points · Posted at 04:24:00 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
So they are virtually teaching young men that whatever women have exposed is okay for them to touch. Why are SJW's attacking people who refer to their pets as boys or girls and not taking on the Mormon church? Seems at least there they'd actually have a reason to fight.
Merari01 · 1 points · Posted at 15:31:25 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Because SJW'ers are bullies and bullies are cowards at heart.
A bully will always attack an easy target and never go after anyone that may actually fight back.
Lord_ThunderCunt · 0 points · Posted at 05:47:54 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I ❤ Mormon pussy!
white_n_mild · -9 points · Posted at 20:35:37 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Now that I'm an older Godless heathen, I think about what sort of things I might not want some potential future curious 11 year old boy Im raising to be exposed to. Hardcore porn is really fucking graphic.
I'm almost thirty and porn is a Huge distraction to me, and I've certainly been down the gaping rabbit hole of finding sketchier and sketchier shit and seeing it as normal everyday stuff. That shouldn't be my reaction, and it certainly shouldn't be an 11yo's either.
Avoiding masturbation completely is dumb, but I understand the urge parents have to prevent their kids from this porn centric unreality. Using religious shaming to do it is a pretty shitty way to go about it though, and has weird effects and repercussions that work themselves out in many bad ways later in that kids life, but what other template is out there?
kinkade · 4 points · Posted at 23:37:41 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Fuck that was pointless
jvanderh · 9 points · Posted at 21:19:40 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Science and general morality? You teach conditioned associations (fetishes, deathgrip), pleasing your partner (do none of the things you see in porn) and that the porn industry abuses people.
white_n_mild · 1 points · Posted at 11:18:32 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)*
Just trying to relate my own human experience to you. I guess I'm just a huge sex pervert!!! Hahaha. How chaste yet conversely without a concern in the world you all truly are!
It's easy to say everything religious people do is crazy. So easy. It's not easy to attempt a deeper understanding of their perspective.
One of these is a very ignorant thing to do and one is not. Keep on truckin' r/atheism finally I remember why I left. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.....
AngryWatchmaker · 1 points · Posted at 00:27:26 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
You are a drug addict. Your drug is pornography.
white_n_mild · 1 points · Posted at 00:33:14 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
That's not my only drug Holmes. And please tell me what problem you have with doing drugs?
AngryWatchmaker · 0 points · Posted at 00:53:55 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Why are you assuming I have a problem with drugs? "Holmes".
People can identify alcoholics, that doesn't necessarily make them anti-alcohol.
However you seem to know you have a problem. Needing more of the drug to get the same high, acknowledging that it is a huge distraction, and you understand that your reaction to sketchy porn is unhealthy.
You are very defensive.
white_n_mild · 1 points · Posted at 01:10:36 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I think I'm offering a perspective on my interaction with porn that is probably relatable to people with an ounce of self-awareness in a similar situation. I'm a man and am sometimes annoyed by being distracted by pursuing sex or masturbation. Sexuality is part of my life as it is for everybody else, I just find it annoying at times when I'm trying to focus on other things. I don't think I'm alone in that sentiment. The problem I have is that I'm human.
Just because we all agree that Jesus isn't omniscient ruler of the universe doesn't mean it's always so easy and simple to know what's right and what's wrong.
NetPotionNr9 · -1 points · Posted at 06:47:51 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
O__O
fakemoose · -5 points · Posted at 22:19:09 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
I just sat by a Mormon guy on a international flight (he was reading the BoM almost the whole time). I kept bumping in to him and laughing in my head every time. This made me laugh even harder given how many women were in leggings on the flight.
dragonfangxl · -14 points · Posted at 00:55:35 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Whats the problem? Other than the weird phrasing, it seems to have a good non religious message (people are going to judge you based on what you wear, if you want to get taken seriously wear serious clothing)
[deleted] · 7 points · Posted at 01:58:03 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
It seems to me like it's saying that if women don't cover up and are raped, then it's their fault. The rapist was tricked by the temptings of the woman and just used his "big strong hands" the way they were meant to be used.
dragonfangxl · -7 points · Posted at 02:02:40 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
I mean, sure i guess if youre cynical and want to put the worst possible spin on it, i suppose you could say that. I dont think that was the intention though, i think its just reminding girls that how you dress sends a message about yourself to the world.
I dont see why its OK to tell people how they should dress in every other walk of life (dress for the job you want, not the job you have ect) but the second anyone implies that exposing skin attracts male attention we have to pretend thats not the case
[deleted] · -15 points · Posted at 22:16:27 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
In our current world, this terrible advice is not bad advice to young women in some places.
We do not live in a totally civil society....
bissimo · 6 points · Posted at 01:05:07 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
The point is that they're treating all men as mindless rapists and putting the onus on girls to not get raped. All while treating the whole thing with a "boys will be boys" attitude.
The same places where women should heed this advice are probably the same places where men are told that rape is OK because, "she was asking for it."
anonymous_being · -7 points · Posted at 21:34:22 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Er ma gerd!
version13 · -8 points · Posted at 21:31:39 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Make sure to cross-post this to r/WeirdBoner
ProlixTST · -7 points · Posted at 01:12:17 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Swigitty swooty; I'm comin for that booty.
Iamgoingtooffendyou · -8 points · Posted at 01:21:22 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
...she has two large breast, coincidence?
[deleted] · -9 points · Posted at 04:19:42 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Picking cherries eh? Surprise surprise
gaarasgourd · -11 points · Posted at 22:37:05 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)
Shouldn't this be in /r/tumblr? Why is this here?
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 23:09:20 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
[removed]
dumnezero · 1 points · Posted at 00:05:56 on January 10, 2016 · (Permalink)
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[deleted] · -13 points · Posted at 00:56:40 on January 9, 2016 · (Permalink)
Those Mormon boys gettin finer pussy than all of y'all. Just sayin.
[deleted] · -15 points · Posted at 21:59:16 on January 8, 2016 · (Permalink)*
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