To be fair, I think it's shitty to say "you look good for being trans!", but it certainly isn't wrong to tell a trans person they look good without having to mention them being trans.
Of course, this doesn't work in Tumblr land. Acknowledge they're trans, you're cishet scum. Don't acknowledge. you're erasing trans voices. Has anyone not given up on making these people satisfied?
For clarification - my best friend is MtF and I would never say "you look like a real woman!" to her.
For clarification - my best friend is MtF and I would never say "you look like a real woman!" to her.
A lot of these seem more tactless than mean spirited. Like, the Real woman or look good for being trans (I imagine) were more intended to mean something like "I wouldn't have been able to guess you were trans."
But I think part of the problem is that it's just a really weird and awkward thing to talk about at all for either side.
No, I don't think people mean it in a mean-spirited way. I was also drunk when I wrote that. She won't bitch someone out for saying it, but for her she's worked very hard at transitioning to be seen as just a woman, so it's what they call "being clocked". She prefers people don't see her as trans at all.
Yeah, that... It's like, I'm not entirely sure where to go with a conversation when "I'm Trans" is like, their opening line, y'know? Especially the ones that treat Cis like a slur.
Yeah, she's not Tumblr-ish at all, she's just a cool person.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:56:20 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Why is it shitty? Most people have strong features due to DNA that make them look strongly one way or the other. It's surprising when someone looks good despite their DNA saying they should look otherwise. I've known people with cystic acne and after their medical treatment, you never would have guessed they had it in the first place. They were proud to look the way they did when the deck was stacked against them.
I understand your point, but my best friend is trans and as opposed to Tumblr, she doesn't like being seen as trans. So when someone says "wow, you look really good for being trans!" she's not necessarily offended, she just feels she's being noticed for being trans and not the woman she wants to be. I do understand where you're coming from though.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:25:47 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you for understanding where I'm coming from. That's really all I'm asking. I am receiving therapy for ASD and I get the comments "Wow, I never would have expected you to have ASD!" and it really is a compliment. I'm proud of all that I've had to struggle through (though not proud to have it at all) and to have someone recognize those struggles by seeing me the way I want to be seen is such a relief.
I think most people prefer to be seen as part of the norm rather than part of the "other". I see the whole Tumblr thing as a teenage angsty way to get noticed that they'll hopefully get out of. And get real treatment if any are mentally ill, not self diagnosing.
Reminds me of Ben Shapiro, who says that if someone calls you a racist, sexist or whatever without any evidence, the response shouldn't be to try and defend yourself, but to call them an asshole and call them out on it.
Sounds like the cantina scene from star wars. Lesson to be learned, someone is going to lose an arm.
[deleted] ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 02:07:15 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes. Obviously it's because I think trans individuals are deceitful and not that I'm genuinely happy that a friend chose to open up and reveal something very personal about themselves. Yup.
I'm sorry, you must be new here. Welcome to tumblr, you cishet white bigot genocidal transmysoginistic triggering problematic patriarchial culture appropriating piece of shit. Now please check your privilage and feel guilty for existing.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 10:21:05 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I love how on tumblr surprise dick/vagina is considered perfectly OK, and any reaction other than complete acceptance is "transphobic." I really don't have a problem with trans people, but if I was with a transwoman that passed as cis and never mentioned she was trans and then one thing leads to another and her pants come off and there's a penis... Yeah, sorry but no. I imagine if a straight women was out with a guy and she took him home and then finds out her boyfriend has a vagina she wouldn't be thrilled about it either.
[deleted] ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 02:38:28 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Like many fellow gay men, I find the idea of being in proximity to ladybits rather unsettling. That reaction doesn't stop if those ladybits are attached to a bloke. I do NOT want to have to deal with that surprise while i'm getting lucky.
Garkaz ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 06:24:50 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is exactly the problem, except there are just less of you compared to heterosexuals so it seems like straight men are the only ones complaining.
Yeah well it really depends on the person, as much as I love men having a penis, I've seen some trans men who are attractive enough for me to consider dating.. let alone sleeping with. (Inb4 I'm dehumanizing)
No, thank you for speaking up. You're not 'dehumanizing' at all and personally I think it's really cool when a gay guy can give dating trans guys a shot. (Plus, trans guys are just hot.) Honestly this is the one thing I hate about trans issues being brought up in here. It becomes a thinly veiled circlejerk about Everything Wrong With Trans People in here sometimes. I was actually featured in /r/SubredditDrama once for mentioning that some gay guys really, really don't care (and some gay tops? Find it a turn on) if their boyfriend has something a little different in his pants. Not to mention trans male genitalia can be....really ambiguous (NSFW), and some guys also find that a turn-on.
Personally the whole "DAE Gays hate vaginas?" thing just gets kind of old, whether or not we're specifically talking about trans issues. :/ I get not wanting to interact with one sexually if that's not your bag, but jesus can we get beyond school yard cooties level about stuff?
G19Gen3 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:06:18 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Psh
Shitlord.
terpin ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 01:32:27 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't mind my ladies having a little something extra, but you're right - disclosure before things become intimate is important. It's only fair.
I feel like this whole argument from tumblr about how not wanting to have sex with someone with certain genitals is trans people expressing their fear of not being accepted through anger and hate. As a gay trans man, I'm scared that I won't find a guy who's okay with me because of my parts. I do plan on getting SRS, but I don't know how late that will be into my life. And I don't want to enter a relationship with someone just because they think that it's their fetish - especially since, like most trans people, I'm uncomfortable with my genitals.
That doesn't mean that I should blame guys who refuse to go out with me for being uninterested, especially when adding sex to the equation, which is what I think is going on with this whole argument; trans people who do blame others for not going out with them, fearing that they'll never find someone.
Ironically, most of the people who I see make this argument are nonbinary, so they wouldn't be going out with straight or gay people anyways.
Augmata ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 07:46:45 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This, very much. I do think that some of these arguments are made by ideological people ("Gender doesn't exist and genitals aren't gendered and everything is the same!! etc") but I think that for a lot of others, this is simply an expression of fear. I never made arguments like these, but as a transgirl, I was always very scared of being rejected. Everyone is. Rejection always hurts. But I thought it would be yet another problem that I have to deal with, and yet another reason why someone I like might reject me. That's scary.
I'm not surprised that ideas like these have flourished in communities which spend a lot of time on the internet, either. Because when you actually meet people, you will often find that your fears, whatever they might be, are often unfounded. But if you spend a lot of time alone, just thinking about things like these, fears have a way of growing and growing.
Ironically, most of the people who I see make this argument are nonbinary, so they wouldn't be going out with straight or gay people anyways.
Serious question. What's wrong if someone has a fetish, and is attracted to you? I only see this really in the Trans community. What is the difference between that and say big boobs, a lot of tatoos, or being tall.
It's creepy. It's kind of hard to explain. Most trans people don't want to be seen as trans, they want to be seen as just a guy or a girl. I want to be able to transition and put my past - and my biology - behind me. If they're only attracted to me because I'm trans, it's kinda creepy. I'm a person, not a sex toy, y'know? I exist beyond my status as trans, even if tumblr tries to convince you otherwise.
I mean, if someone happens to find me being trans is sexy, and they don't mind if I fully transition, they see me as something beyond being trans, then I don't mind, really. You can't control your fetishes. I just don't want to be reduced to my genitals.
Chicup ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:35:28 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a gay trans man,
Help me out here, I'm old. So you were born female, but feel you are male, and a gay male, so you want to find a gay man who is happy having sex with someone born female, who feels they are really a gay man?
No, yeah, you got it. Genetically female, I consider myself a guy, and I'm only interested in guys. I know, it sounds ridiculous. I do plan on having sexual reassignment surgery, and sex isn't important to me, but yeah. I'd be fine with a bisexual man, too (which I might have more luck with?)
You'd be surprised, lots of gay guys are cool with trans men. Honestly, only two of my ex partners are bisexual guys, I've dated mostly gay men. (It helps that I'm a bottom, and that I'm cool with using both holes, I'll admit. Lots of gay tops are really into the fact that I'm a "double bottom".)
Chicup ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:14:04 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was thinking of a bi guy as your best bet.
Kafke ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 06:38:10 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is really the only disclosure thing I agree with. If you come with something non-standard, it's best to disclose before it's relevant.
I think before the pants come off/before going to a second location for sexytimes is perfectly reasonable. (Tbh, it's also good self preservation -- the last thing you want is to get into an intimate situation with someone who will become violent when they find out.) The problem is when people move the goalposts on acceptable disclosure. It's like they can't stand the idea of accidentally being attracted to a trans person so much they want it to be the first thing we say to them, because god forbid we touch or kiss first despite my trans status being completely irrelevant to that.
Apparently not before the first kiss, which is where as a cis I would be offended to not be informed of, hence where this issue is springing up, I imagine. I have no interest in men, and whether you identify as a woman or not, if there's a penis I'm going to identify as having been tricked into having kissed a man and react accordingly.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:37:43 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So you expect a trans person to disclose their status as soon as anyone begins to flirt with them? That's incredibly awkward, especially when some flirtations won't go anywhere.
"Hey, can I buy you a drink?"
"I just want to inform you I'm a pre-SRS trans woman!"
But when is the best time? I mean, I know everyone is different but we're talking about "moving the goal posts of disclosure" here.
So, I guess I'll say, when do you expect someone to disclose?
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:29:46 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I would expect someone to disclose before any clothing came off.
But I'm also bi, so the idea of seeing a vagina when I was expecting a penis doesn't really bother me.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:05:08 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm glad that you're comfortable with it, but quite a few people aren't you. One should consider the norm in these situations to find what would be most considerate.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:10:17 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know most people aren't me. That still doesn't change the fact that I wouldn't expect a transgender person to disclose that they aren't cis to every person who hits on them in a bar. When things start to escalate, sure. Before you start getting undressed or leave to go to somebody's place, of course. But right after a person tells you you're attractive and asks where you're from? No.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:18:22 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I usually make sure someone's actually interested in what I've got before we'd even get to the point where anyone was even considering physical relationships.
But a cis heterosexual person who wants to have sex with another cis heterosexual person would've bought this person a night's worth of drinks if we're sticking with the "hitting on someone at a bar" analogy. At that point "What the fuck?" could be considered an understandable reaction due to misleading the person.
Now Person A can be open-minded and go with it or leave but either way they've been mislead.
I know it makes bar crawling more difficult but that's the rub.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:19:14 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Awkward as it is, it's up to the pursuer to ask the appropriate questions in order not to end up feeling used/mislead because they couldn't talk about it. Unfortunately, this line of questioning (which effects less than 5% of the population) would have to be asked to everyone because of they're feeling incredibly awkward by identifying as that statistically anomaly.
Nah, I could easily work that in "Hey, How ya doing? Do you have a penis? Can I buy you a drink?"
Pretend to be play for a second then say "No. Seriously."
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:26:11 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Love it. Let's forget the talking and just print it on a shirt.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:34:55 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Really though, perhaps there needs to be new terminology that describes what someone's looking for. Initially I think of the originally gay phrase of "Friends of Dorothy" to describe a similar usage.
I mean, they don't have to, but I'm pointing out that a lot of people are going to feel misled or tricked if it doesn't come pretty early. Not terribly so unless it's gone quite a ways, but still.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:20:36 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Of course, the natural reply is: "Well, it's their fault for not asking."
if there's a penis I'm going to identify as having been tricked into kissing a man
You don't think that's a really reductionist way of looking at things? Have you ever actually met a trans person? The whole principle is that trans people have a hell of a lot more in common with the genders we identify with than the sex we were born with, in personality, presentation, social interactions, etc. To say penis = man and be done with it is to write off everything that makes someone who they are.
I think you raise a valid point about masculinity and femininity not being solely dependent upon one's biological sex. How we conduct ourselves, the way we present who we are through personal style, the thoughts we express, etc. all work together to create attraction. Pansexuality may be the most inclusive sexual identity, but that doesn't mean a universal attraction to ALL people ALL the time. Mutual attraction is intimate and unique, and it usually begins before we are fully known (physically or emotionally) by the other person.
"Being tricked into kissing a man" I think is less about denying there was a connection, an attraction, an interest, and more about unknowingly beginning a sexual encounter with different physiological terms and constraints than you were initially expecting. Sexual dynamics should always, always be consensual with both parties feeling comfortable to engage. When I invite someone to be sexually intimate with me, I disclose things that may be sensitive or difficult so that I can ensure I will feel safe and accepted while also ensuring my partner is prepared to be patient and compassionate about what I've revealed. We both deserve the opportunity to say "I'm uncomfortable with this" and to have that be respected.
What would you consider "reacting accordingly"? I would assume just nipping off the relationship there, but I don't have a sexuality that would cause that reaction so I honestly don't know how much it would offend you.
Presumably, yeah, and probably a fair bit of being grossed out/some anger, which could easily hurt feelings on both fronts.
If it goes further (past first/second base) I obviously wouldn't condone threats/violence, but one can easily see how they happen when people are delivered such a shock and feel so violated.
Yeah, that has to suck. It's really easy to sit here on my computer and make fun of tumblrinas while forgetting that most of their issues come are coming from a position of pain. I can't even imagine what it's like to be trans and trying to find a partner. Or you know, just being trans. And yeah, it seems like there still are a large amount of cis people that think that trans people need to tell them they are trans at first meeting. And that's fucking awful. And I hadn't even thought about the self preservation issue (that's my actual privilege showing), but holy shit you're right.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 12:03:25 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
See the tricky bit is that many people actually don't mind trans people if they find out once proper contact is established. If a trans person reveals themselves at the first meeting, more often than not, that's it. that's who they are to that person. "Lily who you met in a pub and is studying to be a mechanical engineer" is infinitely more approachable than "Lily the transgender woman".
The ones I know make it a rule to always divulge before sex, but until then do whatever.
Edit: First meeting, not meating. You're supposed to divulge BEFORE the first meating, not during it.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:02:55 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
One could avoid many topics to be more approachable. Most Republicans I know specifically make sure not to mention it until later.
Neither does running up to someone screaming "I'm Trans" and still expecting them to take you seriously as a person. Nope, let 'em get to know you first.
I told this girl I was dating once that I didn't really fully understand the mindset of being born with a penis but thinking you had a vagina. (Not exactly that word for word, but nonetheless an innocent comment and I wanted to understand further) she responds with, "I'm going to call you on your shit." I sat back and my chair and just wondered what hornet's nest I had kicked.
Yeah, that one always gets me. On the rare occasion it comes up in dialogue, I put it this way.
If a gay man met another gay man at a bar, and they decide to hook up, and then while things are getting hot and heavy, one of them wipes of their fake stubble, drop their pants and flashes their vagina, and says, "Surprise! I was actually a woman all along, and you're actually straight!" the entire LGBT community would be in an uproar. There's no doubt that coercing someone to have sex with you on fraudulent premises is an offence, and even considered a form of rape in some legal circles. So, why should it be any different if a straight man or woman went to bed with someone they expected to be the opposite gender, and that other person did a surprise-reveal that they actually had matching genitalia?
Huh. Out of curiousity, would you date a trans guy? Like fully binary, masculine trans guy? (Here, like him.) Generally, as a trans guy, I found that my gay partners tended to be into masculine guys (I'm not like...hardcore masc in the least, but I've been told I'm 'laid back' masculine, whatever that is), but being total tops, they were really, really into the fact that I was a bottom who had two holes and that I was A-okay with using the front one. In fact, I have to laugh because sometimes I would have to be like 'yo, fuck me in the ass' because they were super into the front hole once they got it.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:45:27 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hah, first thing is first, that guy isn't me! Although I've been told I'm not bad on the eyes either. :P I just don't give out my pics online because...trans people have a bad habit of getting their pics stolen and used for less than savory things. (I think I would blow a fuse if my pic ended up on a blog like Dirt, a trans exclusionary radical feminist that has a HUGE hateboner for trans men, who she views as patriarchy brainwashed lesbians.)
Maybe? I do love me some dick once in a while (top leaning switch) and I've never been a fan of dildos.
Just a head's up, trans guys often use expensive prosthetics that are pretty much above and beyond anything you can get on the market. I had a $350 one at one point (lol, hilariously enough I swear I think someone stole it during a move), and there were many 'for scientific research, I swear, bend over and present me your butthole!' moments with casual sex-friends, and no one could tell the difference. If you're curious about what one of them looks like, the Reel Magik on Youtube should give you an idea of the quality. (NSFW obviously, it's a prosthetic penis.)
Vaginas are definitely better than butts for sex though, I can understand why they would want to go there.
That's what the general consensus seems to be, although I practice pompoir so there's really no complaints for either hole. :P
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:45:15 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Isn't that thing cool? The model I had was so fun to play with, honestly sometimes I had trouble getting my friends to stop pinching the soft, cushy outer layer between their fingers and playing around with the gel-filled sac lol. They generally feel really good though, like, to quote a friend of mine, "I definitely feel like something expensive is sliding inside my ass". :P The same technology on a more affordable, less advanced scale is used in the $100~ or so VixSkin line, if you're ever in the mood for a dildo that doesn't suck. It has a firm inner core, but a soft, squishy outer layer that makes it a breeze to take. I don't know how fond you happen to be of anal masturbation, but the VixSkin line is really nice for that. :)
kanicot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:14:22 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Are you saying lesbians should date transwomen even if they have a penis?
I'm going to be honest here, I see far, far more fixation with lesbians who seem to think trans women are coming out en masse to destroy sacred lesbian spaces than I ever see actual trans women who say a woman is being transphobic for not wanting to date a woman with a penis. I see most trans women go "Eh, I don't blame her, I have a preference for vaginas too".
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:29:50 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly a lot of these are true. It's not that the statements -can- be used well, it's just that, from this person's(and my) experience, every time someone says these things out loud they're immediately going to follow it with something douchey. The "I don't have a problem with trans people" one, especially. It's pretty much always followed with complete assholery.
However, most of the time people do this out of ignorance and not hatred, so it's not that hard to ignore.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 01:43:12 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I actually sort of agree with these, but I get that the TiA userbase is mostly straight people who only interact with these issues through making fun of tumblr.
I agree with some of them, but there are also a few that are a bit too smug and I haven't ever experienced someone saying that before
Most of these things are like the 'politically correct redneck' meme. Someone tries to say something nice but accidentally say something stupid because they haven't ever interacted with a person in that way before. I've had people say some stupid shit to me before but I just poke fun at them and we both get a laugh out of it.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:05:00 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Its pretty funny if you find a couple of good ones.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 03:09:12 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know someone who told me, "I'm not homophobic, I have no problem with fags as long as they don't rub it in my face." LOL. Reminds me of that meme and this comic.
Wwwi7891 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 01:46:47 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I really don't know about this one, there's some truth in there interspersed with some strawmanning.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 01:48:54 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 01:50:19 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I actually agree with all of them, especially "I'm glad you're being honest with me about being trans." What smug asshole says something like that? And the "real woman" comment is pretty fucked up too.
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 02:04:46 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well the fact is, if you're potentially considering dating them, that is a factor. Some people want to have children with their partner, they can't do that with a trans person. Some people just have mental hangups they can't get past. If it just comes up in a random conversation, yeah. That's fucked up. The "I would date a trans person" is also something that may be them showing interest in the person in a scummy way.
In addition, it IS hard to switch pronouns if you've known the person for a long period before hand. If you've know them as Antonio for 13 years, and they are now Antonia, then its not going to be like an instant switch. Its something people have to learn to do.
"I've never met a trans person before" is entirely valid too. When less than 1% of the population has gender dysphoria and people aren't open, its entirely possible they've never met a trans person. Hell, they might have but may not have known. Its not wrong to assume you've never met a trans person before.
And the last one is literally just seeking a problem, there's no way around it.
SplurgyA ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:16:13 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The last one can be a Kafkatrap, but more often than not that sentence is followed with a but. Like "I'm not racist but...". Which is probably what they're getting at; if someone says "I don't have a problem with trans people" as a qualifier to what they're about to say, then it's probably something dodgy (unless it's literally like "I don't have a problem with trans people but it's really annoying when they have that gender conference around the corner from here, because then I have to park like 6 blocks away from my house because all the nearer spaces get taken")
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 04:54:32 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They should have put a but, because it can also be "how do you feel about trans people?" "I don't have a problem with trans people."
That seems like the only time it should be said.
[deleted] ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 02:48:24 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well the fact is, if you're potentially considering dating them, that is a factor.
There was absolutely no discussion of dating in the quote I was talking about. You don't have the right to know if a random stranger is trans, and if a friend tells you that they are trans it doesn't mean they were "dishonest" if they didn't tell you.
They aren't being "dishonest" if they don't tell a romantic partner either, even though it is highly advisable that they tell a romantic partner for the reasons you mentioned. Also, the scenario you suggested really only applies to dating and long term relationships. If you're just hooking up with someone randomly, they could be anyone--they could be trans, they could be married, they could have kids, they could have tattoos, they could be in a gang, they could be a different religion than you, they could be bisexual or gay or just experimenting with their sexuality. If any of those things are a such huge risk for you, then you shouldn't have random hookups and you should save yourself for a dedicated relationship where the other person is going to tell you almost everything about their life.
"I've never met a trans person before" is entirely valid too.
No it isn't. You have absolutely no idea if you have met a trans person before, considering the fact that they can look just like any other person. Saying "I've never met a trans person before," means you have never met someone who was a) visibly trans or b) told you that they were trans. You may have met several trans people before without ever knowing they were trans, that's what the comic is saying. Sometimes, you can't tell just by looking at someone. If you live in a big city, odds are you have met a trans person before.
less than 1% of the population has gender dysphoria
Not all trans people have gender dysphoria though. Also, those statistics are for people who have had lower surgery, which is why the statistics tend to say that there are more trans women than trans men, when in reality it is more like 50/50 in my experience with the trans community. We don't know how many trans people there actually are because statistics tend to only count people who have "completed" their transition including sexual reassignment surgery on their genitalia. This doesn't account for non binary people, people who haven't come out yet, people who live full time but aren't on hormones, people who have transitioned completely except for genital surgery, etc.
Hell, they might have but may not have known.
That's the whole point. You can't always tell just by looking at someone. Saying "I have never met a trans person before" means you have certain assumptions about what a trans person looks like, and if a person doesn't have the qualities you assume to mean "trans", you think they aren't trans.
And the last one is literally just seeking a problem, there's no way around it.
I see what you mean, but I also see it through their perspective. It's like saying "I don't have a problem with black people," or "I would never hit a woman." If you really didn't have a problem, it should go without saying.
I mean, it should, but we currently live in a cultural climate that is rather hostile and bleak for transpeople. It makes sense to extend immediate support for them if the issue is brought up, because they are clearly giving you trust with that information, and the receiving person is letting them know the trust is given back. I do this when I tell people my sexuality. I appreciate being told they don't have a problem with me being gay, because a lot of people actively do. We still live in a world where it can't go without saying, because the majority of people have a problem with transgender people.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:09:30 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah like I said I sort of see both perspectives here. I also understand why some trans people are skittish and really anxious about trusting people.
So would that mean saying "I haven't met an open trans person in real life" is OK? Honest question.
Also a bit out of topic, but in the place I'm from transitioning is not as easy as it is in countries like the US or UK (I think it's even illegal to be trans here so they wouldn't get the proper medication?), so it's quite hard to find a trans person who passes as the gender they want to present as. Would "I haven't met a trans person" apply here?
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:29:59 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So would that mean saying "I haven't met an open trans person in real life" is OK? Honest question.
Well yeah.
it's quite hard to find a trans person who passes as the gender they want to present as
It's probably easier than you think. For example if you have a bodybuilding community or a sports community, you probably have people using hormones anyway. If you have fertility clinics, you have people who make hormones. It might be hard to get surgery, but hormones and certain ways of dressing are what makes a person "pass" as male or female. Do you have clothing stores in your country? Do you have fertility clinics and doctors in your country?
Not to mention the fact that some trans people are born looking like the opposite sex except for their genitalia, or have the opposite puberty happen to them naturally (they're a minority but it happens). It might be more much difficult for trans people in your country, but they exist in your country just like anywhere else. You also might have met people who are still in the closet, too.
Riggybee ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 02:26:57 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I said something similar to my girlfriend. I knew from a friend that she was Trans, but never brought it up because I wanted HER to be comfortable telling me. Her genitals were none of my business, and that friend had no right telling me.
But when she DID tell me, I told her "thank you for telling me that. I already knew, but I want you to trust me and be comfortable with me and yourself before this gets serious. I'm glad you decided to tell me."
Because a LOT of Trans people stay in the closet for a long time. And then their SO comes home and sees then wearing someone else's clothes. And they're confused, and it's.. Just a confusing situation in general, especially if that Trans person has been hiding it for so long. So the Trans person telling the other person is a big step in trust. And people should be glad they are told, because imo it shows a lot of trust.
If your dating someone, genitalia is kind of a big deal. It's kind of one of the main points, otherwise you are just friends.
Riggybee ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 02:43:22 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not if you're casually dating. And people stay in the closet for a long time about how they want to transition because they're worried how their SO may feel about it.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:21:35 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 12:32:20 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They don't mean it as an insult, but as a compliment.
That's the whole point. I don't know a single trans person who would be flattered by that.
Most cis people lack interactions with trans people, so they are more likely to say something rude without meaning to do it
I understand that, but that doesn't mean they aren't rude.
You shouldn't take those things as people wanting to be rude
I don't, I do see it as them not seeing trans people as real men or women though. They weren't trying to be rude or hurtful, but that's what they meant.
It would be easier to tell them what they said was extremely rude, so they won't repeat their stupidity again.
But they will though, they'd probably get butthurt about it being pointed out like many people in this comment section did. Also, even if they listened, it wouldn't change the fact that they don't see trans people as real men or women, they'd just know to keep that opinion to themselves from now on. The best thing to do would be to walk away, I think.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:25:21 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They can be true but, just like we shouldn't assume anything about the trans person, they shouldn't assume we all mean bad. My ex girlfriend is mtf and she started using Tumblr near the end of our relationship. It really changed who she was as a person and the way she treated others because she suddenly had all these sorts of ideas off the bat, rather than rationalizing like she used to.
I hope she's doing alright, actually. We haven't caught up in over a year, now.
I dunno. I've seen a lot of minorities on the top comments. I've been there myself and I'm gay and have gender issues. Most of these are acceptable, some are too vague to be applicable, but the last one is too out of context to immediately invoke rage. It seems like rage-bait to me. They just want something to be upset about.
Kafke ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:42:36 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Some of them are accurate, others are a bit silly.
dIoIIoIb ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 09:00:02 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
it's easy to be offended when you decide what other people say regardless of what they actually said
KHJohan ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:40:57 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
โTrans people are ugly.โ
thats just a weird statement
โI assume I can identify any trans person.โ
this is not what the person meant at all and everyone knows it.
meet=/=see
โTrans people are usually undateable so I deserve a prize.โ
I would assume that a transsexual person does face many challenges when it comes to finding a romantic partner. A person attracted to the sex of transperson, would probably never know the actual sex of that person, which is a huge barrier for relationships.
โTrans women arenโt really women.โ
Well they are not. They fell like they are women but they aren't, because feeling like something is true doesn't make it so.
โTrans people who donโt tell me theyโre trans are deceivers and liars.โ
This is only true if a trans person persues a romantic relationship with someone, but hides their sex. Romantic relationships are build upon on our sexualities, so if you deceive someone to think that you belong to the opposite sex, then you're just wasting everyone's time.
โI fetishize trans people.โ
So what?
โTrans people are an inconvenience to me.โ
Uhm aren't you trying to police everyone's language about you even when you are not there? Also if pronouns aren't such a big deal, then they aren't a big deal.
โI have a problem with trans people.โ
uops seems there was a problem with the translation, the actual content of the sentence was:
โI donโt have a problem with trans people, but I do have a problem with prententious assholes.โ
SplurgyA ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 04:21:55 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair,
Oh you're trans? But you look so good!
is a fucked thing to say. Because it does suggest that it's weird for a trans person to look good, ergo most trans people don't look good. Kinda like "You're pretty for a black girl" - it implies that most black girls are not pretty.
The
I would date a trans person
one is context dependent. If you literally asked someone that question, it's one thing, or if you were specifically discussing trans dating it'd probably just be a heads up that you would. They're probably more referencing the smug sort of "allies" who go "Well I WOULD date a trans person!" as if they're bragging about it. It'd be like someone going "Well, you know what? I would date an Asian!" and it's like, ok dude, you don't need to brag about it.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:15:40 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most people look like their biological gender. Most people have pretty defining features which make them look they way they do, it's in their DNA. Being able to be perceived as a gender you weren't born as despite your DNA is quite the feat. Especially considering that most people look convincingly male or female. The bulk majority of people would absolutely not look good if they tried to present as another gender.
You'd be pretty surprised. You've probably passed at least one trans person on the street in the past couple of days and not noticed.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:33:07 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Statistically speaking? Not really. I know several trans individuals in my area and their look is not flattering. While I'm sure there certainly are those that are, the odds are not with them due to DNA and puberty (because of a tendency [currently] to transition after). Medical assistance can only do so much.
Edit: You're right, it's likely I didn't notice that they were trans, I likely thought they were just another ugly man or woman. If I met someone who then told me that they were trans and I hadn't recognized that they were and that they were good looking, I sure would be surprised because DNA does some harsh work when it comes to looking good and genetics. Being surprised that they won't the genetic lottery when it comes to transitioning isn't the norm and recognizing that isn't some sort of cosmic slight against transgendered people.
I'm not gonna touch the 'ugly woman' part of that sentence, but trans men have a reputation for all being very, very attractive. Often we go from so-so looking women to extremely good looking men. It's been remarked upon in queer spaces pretty often.
So the reality is you probably pass trans men and don't clock them as anything other than regular dudes going about their day.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:23:16 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not experiencing that in Northern California. The majority here are FtM and they're not.
Ehhhh, forgive me if I don't quite agree, and somehow I doubt you have your hand on the pulse of the FtM community there unless you're also trans and have access to large groups of trans people all gathered together to even begin making comparisons. I honestly think you have a skewed view of what hormones can and cannot do as well. Just taking a look in /r/transpassing shows a mix of the rarer gorgeous people, the usual 'normal people' and some who don't pass. Not quite the "trans people are destined to be ugly" you seem to be insinuating.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:27:52 on February 2, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm sorry you don't think I can have an informed opinion on how people's bodies develop because of DNA.
Hormones are the absolute bulk of what makes a person look masculine or feminine though, not "DNA". Give a trans girl puberty blockers at 11-12 before testosterone kicks in? She'll develop like a natal female once given estrogen at 14-15.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:39:03 on February 2, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
We were too focused on if we could do it, we never stopped to think if we should do it...
Except, yes we did. Literally everything else was tried before HRT and surgery if wanted became the standard of care. I don't know what post-apocalyptic, drunk-on-power mad scientist world you think doctors live in, but this has absolutely been thoroughly debated, tested, studied, and gone over with a fine tooth comb.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:58:43 on February 2, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You mean, they didn't campaign against any further research and made the topic taboo while claiming support for their positions through statistically insignificant studies claiming that brain chemistry is different in trans individuals vs cis?
There have been a definite retaliation against actually dealing with it in any other way than what trans individuals wish to. Not in ways that actually reflect what scientifically and medically relevant.
Yeah, I'm gonna need a source for this because I'm smelling the distinct scent of BS. And if you source Dr. McHugh I will know you've swallowed the kool-aid on this one, so do be mindful of who you source, because this is the same guy who thinks pedophilia is 'homosexual predation on America's Catholic youth', and it's pretty much well known his views go against the APA.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:56:49 on February 3, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I mean statistically. The sample size isn't large enough to actually draw a conclusion. When your sample size is smaller than 30, you can't have a Confidence Interval that indicates statistical significance. The math isn't there and yet I see it used as the largest piece of support for the idea.
Edit: If you'd like to learn more, this is called Type I Error, and it's a core concept to mathematics and the base foundation of drawing any scientific conclusions based on any data set.
Wait...what in the world are you trying to say, that they made the decision to treat trans people with surgery was made with a sample size of less than thirty?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:43:48 on February 5, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm saying that the support used (i.e. Claims that brain scans support the idea that trans individuals are meant to be their biological counterparts.) is not statistically and scientifically significant because of their sample size. That's what Type I error is and it makes a huge difference when you're trying to claim that the correlation between your sample set says anything at all about a larger population. Without statistical significance, these findings may as well be called pseudoscience.
I'm a little confused here though, because they've done multiple studies on this, so the sample size isn't nearly what you seem to be claiming.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:05:24 on February 10, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Show me a study where the sample size is thirty or larger. I've seen this problem multiple times and no study has stood up to scientific scrutiny. I'm sorry but this is what I've been trying to tell people. The science isn't there.
I mean, just taking a quick look at the studies linked here, it certainly seems as if the science is definitely 'there'. There are multiple theories and observations, but it's pretty conclusive that transexualism isn't just a flight of fancy.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:14:04 on February 11, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Good thing I wasn't talking about it in general! I certainly still think there is something wrong with the brains of transsexuals, just not that their brains are of the opposite gender. That study is trash. As for what the direct cause is, nobody will know and there won't be more effective treatment (or prevention) unless we stop the spread of misinformation and demo ozone people who critique the science there.
There's been multiple studies that all came to the same conclusion though. You're getting to the point where you're putting your fingers in your ears and going "NAH NAH NAH", and you're confusing me here. I don't know if you actually have any grasp of the science behind all this or if you're determined to paint trans people as "mentally ill" in a way that suits you being able to claim they're "delusional" so you don't need to respect them. I can't tell if you've truly come across studies that contradict this, or if you're one of those kinds of people. If it's the former, I'd be glad to entertain this conversation, but if it's the latter...ehh not so much. If you dig into the science it actually is pretty sound, including the same type of genetic links between higher instances of homosexuality between identical twins also proving true in transsexuals, and the hormonal causes as well. I mean, why is it so hard to believe that the brain started developing as male or female, and because of a hormonal shift later in pregnancy the body starts growing as the opposite gender. Our brains are already forming before our genitals fully develop.
As for effective treatment, it seems transitioning works pretty well. Once a patient is post-op, suicide and depression rates decline rapidly, and hover around the same as the cis population.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 08:41:39 on February 2, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If only there were an easy way to figure out what hormones people produce naturally. Maybe a double helix of amino acids. We could call it, Deoxyribonucleic acid...
No one is saying that the hormones aren't coming from an artificial source, but that doesn't stop your main point of "trans people just look weird because DNA" from being provably wrong. Go check out young transitioners. They are indistinguishable from their cis counterparts. Even many transitioners in their 20's and early 30's are too.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:11:19 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
SplurgyA ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:22:39 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I was typing out a long response and when I got to the "real woman" I just kinda went whelp and stopped there lol
I can't imagine how these people could ever function as a regular person in society, what with thinking everyone's out to get them.
Lunick01 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:44:36 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe this is my cis-ness showing, but I'd think that a trans person would want to be told they look like a real (insert gender they identify as)
Too be honest, I've found myself being jealous of a few FtM people I know because in the end they end up being a more attractive man then I am. Why can't I be as sexy looking as some of these guys?
Let's just get something out of the way: a lot of trans people are ugly. They don't really look like humans anymore in the same way that Michael Jackson and Joan Rivers no longer looked human. I'm all for them making the changes they feel they need, but let's not blow smoke up their ass by saying they are passable.
Uh...what trans people have you been hanging around? The vast majority just look like people. You're "clocking" the non-passing trans people while the majority move around you without you suspecting anything, which is what happens with many minority groups. (The 'worst' of the bunch are held up as a stereotype of how the whole group is.)
I'm very active in lgbt etc communities and your theorry only makes sense if the passable Ts largely don't participate or deny their identity (due to the nature of these events, this just isn't likely, ime). I'm not saying there aren't good looking one's, but by and large they are pretty strange looking and noticeable. I recall a woman complaining to me how waitrons call her sir when she goes out to eat, while the only reason I would have thought anything different was that she was wearing a dress. In my mind, I'm thinking about how people call me ma'am from behind because of my long hair and how it just doesn't matter, but hey it was important to her. The one's that are passable are pretty few and far between.
your theorry only makes sense if the passable Ts largely don't participate or deny their identity (due to the nature of these events, this just isn't likely, ime).
Except, that's basically what they do. It's called 'being stealth', and it's the goal for the vaaaaaaaaaast majority of trans people. People who are openly trans? That's the minority, because it sucks being openly trans, and if someone can pass, they often choose deep stealth mode. People who pass and are open casually about being trans are pretty rare compared to those who stealth. It's usually because the reactions can get tiring. Both my GF and I experience tons of weird questions because we pass and we're open about being trans.
The one's that are passable are pretty few and far between.
That's just untrue. You just aren't reading the 'passing' people as trans. I also notice you mentioned trans women specifically. Trans men tend to 'pass' better after a certain point as well, and we become all but invisible to people seeking to 'clock' trans people.
I agree trans men tend to pass better. But no, I'm not just clocking unpassables. You're over evaluating how many trans women end up passable. It's not a matter of being stealth.
You wouldn't be clocking passable stealth women by the very nature of the thing.
You're over evaluating how many trans women end up passable. It's not a matter of being stealth.
And I think you're underestimating. I belong to two of my city's (and we're a big, well known for our LGBT nightlife city) largest trans support groups, and the majority of trans women who transition before their 40's pass within 2-3 years of taking hormones. There is absolutely that 20% or so that doesn't, but the overwhelming bulk of trans people absolutely do pass.
What are you talking about? Of course they avoid the events, where did you think I stated they don't? This is a trans only support group, cis people aren't allowed to attend, so unless you're secret-agenting your way in there to observe trans people in the wild, I very much doubt you could infer that this means they go to more LGBT+ ally events as well. For some of these people, they're deep stealth and risking a lot to stay to connected to the community through us. One girl tells her friends she sees a psychiatrist weekly when she's really coming to the support group. The fact remains though that many trans people cut ties entirely, and you absolutely would not be able to 'clock' these people. The more you pass, the less likely they are to stay in the 'limelight' in the trans community. Being treated as 'normal' in a society that seeks to pick apart trans people's lives is a pretty tempting prospect. I've even thought about doing it, and it's basically for the reasons outlined in this thread, even though I don't think you mean to. You seem committed to the fact that you're somehow a transgender spotting super detective, but what you don't seem to realize is that you're falling prey to the 'visible minority' fallacy (I forget exactly what they term this logical fallacy). You associate trans people with women like Caitlyn Jenner, and therefore you naturally clock the non-passing people much more often than you notice the passing ones.
The reality is, for trans women at least, many of them have a mix of passing and non-passing features...just like cis women do. There was a fascinating photo set done somewhere, I can't find it right now, but it was of actresses who are cisgender, and yet would be 'clocked' as trans women because of masculine facial features. In reality, I notice most trans women end up somewhere like this cute girl. She's got a mixture of passing and non-passing features, but if you passed her on the street, there is no way you would clock her because she's not 'visibly trans'.
The reality is, for trans women at least, many of them have a mix of passing and non-passing features
Exactly what I said. And your cute girl doesn't pass, or at least she doesn't look normal, which is my original thesis. If I passed her on the street, I might not say "she's a trans" but I'm certainly not going to say "wow, she looks great".
I did a little research into this, and this site basically says that only about 50% of Ts street stealth and if those, really less than half can really pass, so it goes to about 10-20% by their estimate. They didn't do a scientific study but better have you or I. I couldn't find anything to back up your claim that most T girls pass.
On top of that, I've known quite a few people going through their transition, even young ones that that site claims get the most benefit from SRS and hormone treatment. I've never seen one come out as the beautiful butterfly you claim they are. And I don't have a problem dating a trans person. I don't even have a problem dating men. But I do have a problem with dating weird looking people.
I was watching WWE last night and the women on that looked weird too. Must were probably cis women, but they just don't look like humans are supposed to look.
Exactly what I said. And your cute girl doesn't pass, or at least she doesn't look normal, which is my original thesis. If I passed her on the street, I might not say "she's a trans" but I'm certainly not going to say "wow, she looks great".
You and I must have a very different threshold then, because I picked her specifically because she looks pretty much exactly like my cis best friend. The reality of the issue is that most women, cis and trans alike, have passing and non passing features. Facial Feminization surgery wasn't created for trans women after all. Neither was vaginoplasty.
I did a little research into this, and this site basically says that only about 50% of Ts street stealth and if those, really less than half can really pass, so it goes to about 10-20% by their estimate. They didn't do a scientific study but better have you or I. I couldn't find anything to back up your claim that most T girls pass.
This is literally anecdotal evidence. She even states on her homepage that she's not medical or a professional. Also, nowhere do I say that "most" pass, just that a rather large number of them do. If the situation were 49% of them passing, I would still consider that a huge number.
On top of that, I've known quite a few people going through their transition, even young ones that that site claims get the most benefit from SRS and hormone treatment. I've never seen one come out as the beautiful butterfly you claim they are. And I don't have a problem dating a trans person. I don't even have a problem dating men. But I do have a problem with dating weird looking people.
Well, I've met quite a few trans women that were indeed the "beautiful butterfly" type. I never claimed most trans women come out looking like models, but most come out looking like regular women. And yes, of course the "young ones" do, but in my experience "young" is "under thirty", before testosterone has had a chance to fully masculinize people. I know some girls who got hormone treatment at 16 who have a harder time passing than girls who got it at 24 too, it's all genetics and luck to a certain degree.
Also, no one is claiming you have to date "weird looking people". But your definition of "weird looking" is entirely subjective. Plenty of men I know would find the girl I linked to be quite attractive. Hell, there are plenty of straight men not attracted to penis in the least that use Bailey Jay as an example. Literally the other day I saw on Reddit "I'm not into trans women but...Bailey Jay, I'm sorry man but I'd bury myself balls deep into that ass and they'd have to pry me out like the Sword of Excalibur." Mass upvotes.
Passing itself is a subjective thing as well, and comprised of many different elements which ultimately makes this conversation kind of pointless and just a bunch of "my subjective reality is better than your subjective reality", which, in the end, eh. I do think having years of being in contact with the community lends my side a certain bit of credibility, and I have absolutely no dog on the fight since trans men are pretty much widely accepted to pass after a certain amount of time on hormones (though we have our own issues in early transition as well), I'm just stating what I see.
I was watching WWE last night and the women on that looked weird too. Must were probably cis women, but they just don't look like humans are supposed to look.
Yes, to my knowledge there isn't any openly trans women in the WWE. But from what I know of them, they seem...plastic and manufactured. Is that what you're talking about? There's certainly a small demographic of trans women who take it too far, and end up looking like a plastic surgery caricature. I stand in complete agreement there, although I would hope nobody is basing their humanity on that fact.
No, I didn't say that at all. At best I said a lot of them are. See this is why I can't really respond. Your just making stuff up that I said and then attacking that. It's called strawnanning, but I don't think you're doing it on purpose.
But how can you say that with any certainty? How can you even begin to accurately quantify this? (Besides I guess being really creepy and doing a 2+ year study on /r/transpassing or something with the qualifier that the trans woman has been on hormones for over a year or two.) I responded initially because I think you're coming from a biased point of view because you have a certain image of trans women, and for every girl that you notice and think to yourself 'aha, see, most trans women look like this!', there's a girl like this who you wouldn't even begin to notice, and therefore she isn't counted. Most trans women are boringly normal looking, but they're pretty boringly normal looking as their desired gender. I would say the most likely situation is that there is probably as many truly 'weird looking' (i.e. non-passing, whatever) trans women as there are model-beautiful trans women, so both are a noticeable-but-somewhat rare minority.
Also keep in mind a lot of what you're doing is visible bias. Once you start looking for it, a lot of cis women start 'failing to pass' and 'looking weird' too:
I think you're over-analyzing trans women because you have that preconceived notion of them being trans, so you're automatically looking for masculine features where otherwise you might not be if you were under the impression that they were a cis woman.
You see, you have no understanding of what I'm saying. This might be a great response in another thread. But I said a lot of trans women look weird. Do you really think that's not the case? Do they all end up beautiful butterflies?
But I said a lot of trans women look weird. Do you really think that's not the case? Do they all end up beautiful butterflies?
This is like asking if I think cis women look weird. Do you think all cis women end up beautiful butterflies? All I'm saying is that you cannot use something as diverse and unquantifiable as simply being trans as a qualifier here. You're trying to group together a huge, worldwide population with a superficial characteristic, like trying to say "I think a lot of tall men smell bad, prove me wrong", the first part has nothing to do with the next part. What does being tall have to do with them smelling bad? Just like what does 'trans' have to do with them 'looking weird'? Each trans woman's journey is so individual that it's impossible to point to 'trans' as being some sort of catalyst. There are a huge population of trans women who end up looking superiour to a lot of cis women too, but it wouldn't make sense for me to say trans women look better than cis women, because it all ends up being about individuals for which 'trans' and 'cis' status has basically nothing to do with things.
All I'm saying is that you cannot use something as diverse and unquantifiable as simply being trans as a qualifier here.
Good thing I'm not, then. Again. You're making things up that I'm saying. I can't argue against your fiction. It would be like me saying "you can't say all trans women look passing and don't end up weird. Why would you even promote that, because it will set unrealistic expectations for people who are transitioning? How can you hate unpassble trans people so much that you erase them?" See how dumb that is?
Err....what? You're literally strawmanning what I said. Cut off the end of this statement here:
"you can't say all trans women look passing and don't end up weird. "
And I actually agree with this statement. You can't say all trans women end up passing. Just like you can't say something as broad and ridiculous as "A lot of them end up weird looking". You just seem to be upset that I'm not letting it go that I think it's stupid to use "trans" as a qualifier, because it's so broad as to basically be meaningless, like I said, it would be like saying "a lot of cis women end up weird looking", like...yes, some cis women probably do look weird, but what exactly does that have to do with them being cis?
I don't understand why you keep erasing trans women simply because they don't turn out the way you want them to look. I get that you have your cool girls club of passing trans girls but it's really kind if mean to say the ones that didn't make the cut aren't real trans people. Dating they are weird cis people doesn't help anyone.
You're the one who seems to be hellbent on erasing the huge swaths of trans women who you can't immediately "clock" and therefore call "weird looking" because it doesn't seem to fit your narrative of "trans=weird". Meanwhile on the other hand I've dated non-passing trans women. I've been mistaken for a cis guy with a fetish for "trannies" and been made fun of by passing cis people with a huge mouth and no filter, and watched my ex-girlfriend's face wilt because people always seemed to find a way to remind her that she wasn't perfectly passing, and she noticed how I was getting dragged into shit simply because I wasn't afraid to hold her hand or kiss her in public.
Dating they are weird cis people doesn't help anyone.
I assume you mean "saying" and not "dating" there but this is actually false too. Pointing out "weird looking" and non-passing cis people often helps cis people realize how unfairly they're judging trans women, and often holding them to a much higher standard of performative femininity and beauty than they would if they thought she was born cis.
Conclusion: never talk to trans people, as literally anything you say will be taken the wrong way.
Or, perhaps a better conclusion would be to realise that whoever wrote this has never sincerely complimented anyone, or has only ever given backhanded compliments, and now they just project that character-flaw of theirs on the rest of humanity, in a vain attempt to make themselves look like better people in comparison.
The fact that they use the entire trans-community as cover for this attempt at reverse virtue-signalling should be met with resistance by anyone who genuinely cares for the plight of transfolk.
Trans men are not men any more than I'm Peter pan. No, I don't play make believe, and I actually consider it negative that current society would rather live in never land than face reality.
Wow, I cannot believe that I actually have to spell it out that he's literally talking out of his asshole, much like you are.
Woosh! I already knew that dude, bit since it was close enough, I took it and threw it right back at you. That is what you call a burn. I can't believe I have to explain that to you! LOLOLOL!
And yes, I am pretty cute, thankyou
I know, like a small, out of touch fuzzy rodent of some sort. :D
I don't get it. What you said here is not a funny/good insult. Try harder
Edit: again though, I'm not the one in danger...at least directly, of the effects of living life in delusion
You do seem to be in danger of missing the point.
Nope, I get the point, but it seems your delusion has alreadt spread to the point you can't understand a burn. Do you think you're actually a samurai too?
Woosh! I already knew that dude, bit since it was close enough, I took it and threw it right back at you. That is what you call a burn. I can't believe I have to explain that to you! LOLOLOL!
Yeah, this right here? This is an example of you doing this.
I don't get it. What you said here is not a funny/good insult. Try harder
But I don't have time to think up le dank memes with you on the internet!
Nope, I get the point, but it seems your delusion has alreadt spread to the point you can't understand a burn. Do you think you're actually a samurai too?
I don't know, do you think you're actually Master Goshinki? Or is picking on usernames on a site where people have usernames like "PM_ME_UR_PROLAPSED_ASSHOLE" perhaps the most bottom-of-the-barrel form of 'burn' possible?
Woosh! I already knew that dude, bit since it was close enough, I took it and threw it right back at you. That is what you call a burn. I can't believe I have to explain that to you! LOLOLOL!
Yeah, this right here? This is an example of you doing this.
Except it's not at all. You posted something, I showed how it could be used against you instead. This is a standard form of an insult. To deny this is to deny reality, but you have already honed that ability haven't you? HAHAHA! Honed it like a samurai baby!
I don't get it. What you said here is not a funny/good insult. Try harder
But I don't have time to think up le dank memes with you on the internet!
Try harder, I don't get it. For an insult to work well it should be clever. Yours isn't, mine was alright
Nope, I get the point, but it seems your delusion has alreadt spread to the point you can't understand a burn. Do you think you're actually a samurai too?
I don't know, do you think you're actually Master Goshinki? Or is picking on usernames on a site where people have usernames like "PM_ME_UR_PROLAPSED_ASSHOLE" perhaps the most bottom-of-the-barrel form of 'burn' possible?
Bottom of the barrel? No, medium? Sure. Yours was bottom of the barrel because it was nonsensical and has no relation to me whatsoever. My insult relates to you because you're clearly butthurt.
No, I'm not master goshinki, that's a username; but I have shown no inability to distinguish reality from fantasy, unlike you, which is why I said actually in regards to you being a samurai... but here is a good example of all this delusion only hurting yourself. You attack what you claim is my delusion, but are only doubling down on your own.
On a serious note; wake up, it will drive you crazy one day, same with the rest of the loons on this planet.
See? Even me calling you a loon is less bottom of the barrel l than you calling me a small fuzzy creature. In what way that is supposed to insult me? I have no idea
Have a good night Master Goshinki. I don't even know how to respond to this diatribe. Consider your internet foe vanquished from sheer boredom and confusion.
For someone who is bored, it's strange you would even reply. I think you're more afraid that I am right...anyway, if you are confused to the point of defeat because someone disagrees with you, you need to get out more and get a social life or something.
I'm actually being serious about the latter btw. Getting better at being social is like anything, the more you do it, the better you get. Take it from me, I was once socially awkward as fuck, how I dealt with that was to constantly put myself in social situations. It did me good and will do the same for you
No, I was honestly just pretty confused and mystified.
Social life
I don't exactly know what kind of social life you think I could be having that I don't already do. I have a girlfriend whom I adore, good friends that make me laugh, and hobbies that keep my hands busy and make me a little cash on the side. I have the little shit that bogs me down, but don't we all?
No, I was honestly just pretty confused and mystified.
Like a week later you respond? Kay, it wasn't too hard to figure out.
Here; I will spell it out for you: you made a joke, I turned it on you.
I also don't think trans people actually exist and I refuse to live in their fantasy world. The exception to this being hermaphrodites.
You may be confused now, but that is everything I said. If you can't understand, you need more help than I can give.
Social life
I don't exactly know what kind of social life you think I could be having that I don't already do. I have a girlfriend whom I adore, good friends that make me laugh, and hobbies that keep my hands busy and make me a little cash on the side. I have the little shit that bogs me down, but don't we all?
Like a week later you respond? Kay, it wasn't too hard to figure out.
Dude I don't live on Reddit.
Ok, well, I have had like 40 conversations since then, so even remembering this conversation is a stretch.
Here; I will spell it out for you: you made a joke, I turned it on you.
Ehhh, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one since I have the feeling you missed the point entirely of said joke in the first place.
More like you're either a loon or are just playing at being retarded.
I also don't think trans people actually exist and I refuse to live in their fantasy world. The exception to this being hermaphrodites.
I really shouldn't even bother, but what do you think of all the science to that points to it actually being a thing?
What science? Gender dysphoria? It comes from the conscious mind first, it does come from the make up of the brain, but YOU create that make up. Same way for depression. Same way for ADD (although I would argue it's a little different). Modern medicine wants to blame everyone and everything else for your problem. Alcoholism? A disease. Obesity? A disease. This is clearly bullshit, but people eat it up. People like to blame their problems elsewhere.
I could actually keep going, but that's ok.
You may be confused now, but that is everything I said. If you can't understand, you need more help than I can give.
It was mostly the longwindedness at the end there that threw me.
Ok, well, I have had like 40 conversations since then, so even remembering this conversation is a stretch.
Again like I said, I don't live on Reddit.
More like you're either a loon or are just playing at being retarded.
More like you didn't see the movie the first gif came from and had no idea of the context of the joke.
What science? Gender dysphoria? It comes from the conscious mind first, it does come from the make up of the brain, but YOU create that make up. Same way for depression. Same way for ADD (although I would argue it's a little different). Modern medicine wants to blame everyone and everything else for your problem. Alcoholism? A disease. Obesity? A disease. This is clearly bullshit, but people eat it up. People like to blame their problems elsewhere.
No, the science that points to the brains of transgender people actually being different, links to the same genetic and hormonal causes that are at the root of homosexuality, etc. That science. As for depression...you do realize that depressed people have actual physical differences in their brains too right? That's not someone consciously deciding to be depressed. The same with ADD. As for alcholics and obesity, they're more addictions than they are diseases, but they become a mental health "disease" in the sense that they become incredibly hard to treat, and we see actual physical differences in the brain of addicted people as well. It's not "blaming someone else" because ultimately when you're addicted it's up to you to solve the problem, but it certainly helps people to understand why for them it's so hard to quit drinking, or stop eating, etc, and to realize and understand that they're battling a changed brain chemistry, and that it's not going to be "normal" just like that.
Ok, well, I have had like 40 conversations since then, so even remembering this conversation is a stretch.
Again like I said, I don't live on Reddit.
That was a statement of fact, not an argument.
More like you're either a loon or are just playing at being retarded.
More like you didn't see the movie the first gif came from and had no idea of the context of the joke.
No, I didnt see the movie, but I was still able to extrapolate the meaning, and turn it on you. Again, you're either a loon or pretending to be retarded....or you have never heard a joke in your life.
What science? Gender dysphoria? It comes from the conscious mind first, it does come from the make up of the brain, but YOU create that make up. Same way for depression. Same way for ADD (although I would argue it's a little different). Modern medicine wants to blame everyone and everything else for your problem. Alcoholism? A disease. Obesity? A disease. This is clearly bullshit, but people eat it up. People like to blame their problems elsewhere.
No, the science that points to the brains of transgender people actually being different,
And so are the brains of people with depression, and so are the brains of people with God complex. So, do we have gods living amongst us? Is not referring to them as a god, something that only a bigot would do? What are their pronouns? Your majesty? My lord? God complex is just one mental illness, out of shit tons of others that do similar things. Now, do we expect ehse people to control themselves, or throw fits till the world bends to their will, and we refer to them as gods?
As someone diagnosed, and who has known tons and tons of others with depression, I have seen the same bullshit in them that created my own circumstances. Mainly in depressed people, number 1 that I notice are lies. The lie about themselves to enough people that they begin to believe it themselves, I believe this literally causes the brain make up change.
As for alcholics and obesity, they're more addictions than they are diseases, but they become a mental health "disease" in the sense that they become incredibly hard to treat, and we see actual physical differences in the brain of addicted people as well.
see? I feel like you are beginning to realize that you're supporting my argument. They cause the problem, the brain adapts.
It's not "blaming someone else" because ultimately when you're addicted it's up to you to solve the problem, but it certainly helps people to understand why for them it's so hard to quit drinking, or stop eating, etc, and to realize and understand that they're battling a changed brain chemistry, and that it's not going to be "normal" just like that.
That they caused, right, I know l, I know, it's too much to expect people to be responsible to fight their demons these days. It's ok, tell them that their brain is just like that, and there is nothing thwy can do so they won't even try, that'll work. Hohoho
No, I didnt see the movie, but I was still able to extrapolate the meaning, and turn it on you. Again, you're either a loon or pretending to be retarded....or you have never heard a joke in your life.
Ahah, you didn't extrapolate the meaning, stop lying. You thought he was rubbing his own ass, not making it pretend to talk. That's why your "joke" fell flat. You were making a joke about something that wasn't happening.
And so are the brains of people with depression, and so are the brains of people with God complex. So, do we have gods living amongst us? Is not referring to them as a god, something that only a bigot would do? What are their pronouns? Your majesty? My lord? God complex is just one mental illness, out of shit tons of others that do similar things. Now, do we expect ehse people to control themselves, or throw fits till the world bends to their will, and we refer to them as gods?
Lol, this is like the kind of slippery slope bullshit people throw out when they're scared of homosexuality. "Maybe they'll marry their dogs next!" First off, people with 'god complexes' are often mentally ill to the extent that they can't function in society. It's a little different than saying "please refer to me as "her" and "she" now" and going about your day. Medically, people with what is commonly referred to as a "god complex" are often schizophrenic and/or psychotic, and we can trace the "god complex" to another mental disorder. Second...I have no idea what you're digging at with mentioning depression. Do we acknowledge that person...what, has depression? Yeeesss?
Depressed people are liars
Yeeeahhh here's the thing, it's not even worth trying to have a good faith argument with someone who thinks that depression and addiction can be cured by simply admitting....doing what, admitting that they "caused it? All I'm really feeling from you is that you basically want to yell at mentally ill people for being mentally ill, and make them pay for it somehow because it offends your sensibilities.
I'm diagnosed with depression too, and lying is basically the last thing I d. I have a highly developed sense of Catholic Guilt leftover from a Italian Catholic upbringing. No need to think I'm lying, if I ever did lie I'd come out and confess it five minutes after I did it! (Yes, yes I did eat that cookie! And yes, that isn't a joke, I actually feel guilt over something that small. If I didn't realize someone else was looking forward to a cookie and I ate it, I'd feel a pang of guilt for being thoughtless.)
Somehow I still have depression.
see? I feel like you are beginning to realize that you're supporting my argument. They cause the problem, the brain adapts.
People who are depressed don't "cause" a problem though. In many people depression comes from outside sources and stressors they have no control over. And addiction is chemical, it really doesn't matter at that point whether they themselves caused it, except medically at that point you'll need a two-pronged attack for treatment, treating the underlying addictive personality and treating the physical addiction. Shaming them isn't helping anybody though.
That they caused, right, I know l, I know, it's too much to expect people to be responsible to fight their demons these days. It's ok, tell them that their brain is just like that, and there is nothing thwy can do so they won't even try, that'll work. Hohoho
....Again, what world are you living in where we suddenly coddle people with addictions and depression? We still treat people like shit because depression and addiction are "hidden diseases", and therefore don't garner as much sympathy. I wonder if it would be different if people wore casts on their head to signal an issue.
Ahah, you didn't extrapolate the meaning, stop lying. You thought he was rubbing his own ass, not making it pretend to talk. That's why your "joke" fell flat. You were making a joke about something that wasn't happening.
I don't know what else to say brochacho. It seems you have dedicated yourself to playing retarded. Based on this alone, responding to you is pointless because you are not willing to be reasonable.
There is absolutely no point in continuing
And so are the brains of people with depression, and so are the brains of people with God complex. So, do we have gods living amongst us? Is not referring to them as a god, something that only a bigot would do? What are their pronouns? Your majesty? My lord? God complex is just one mental illness, out of shit tons of others that do similar things. Now, do we expect ehse people to control themselves, or throw fits till the world bends to their will, and we refer to them as gods?
Lol, this is like the kind of slippery slope bullshit people throw out when they're scared of homosexuality. "Maybe they'll marry their dogs next!" First off, people with 'god complexes' are often mentally ill to the extent that they can't function in society. It's a little different than saying "please refer to me as "her" and "she" now" and going about your day. Medically, people with what is commonly referred to as a "god complex" are often schizophrenic and/or psychotic, and we can trace the "god complex" to another mental disorder. Second...I have no idea what you're digging at with mentioning depression. Do we acknowledge that person...what, has depression? Yeeesss?
Depressed people are liars
Yeeeahhh here's the thing, it's not even worth trying to have a good faith argument with someone who thinks that depression and addiction can be cured by simply admitting....doing what, admitting that they "caused it? All I'm really feeling from you is that you basically want to yell at mentally ill people for being mentally ill, and make them pay for it somehow because it offends your sensibilities.
I'm diagnosed with depression too, and lying is basically the last thing I d. I have a highly developed sense of Catholic Guilt leftover from a Italian Catholic upbringing. No need to think I'm lying, if I ever did lie I'd come out and confess it five minutes after I did it! (Yes, yes I did eat that cookie! And yes, that isn't a joke, I actually feel guilt over something that small. If I didn't realize someone else was looking forward to a cookie and I ate it, I'd feel a pang of guilt for being thoughtless.)
Somehow I still have depression.
see? I feel like you are beginning to realize that you're supporting my argument. They cause the problem, the brain adapts.
People who are depressed don't "cause" a problem though. In many people depression comes from outside sources and stressors they have no control over. And addiction is chemical, it really doesn't matter at that point whether they themselves caused it, except medically at that point you'll need a two-pronged attack for treatment, treating the underlying addictive personality and treating the physical addiction. Shaming them isn't helping anybody though.
That they caused, right, I know l, I know, it's too much to expect people to be responsible to fight their demons these days. It's ok, tell them that their brain is just like that, and there is nothing thwy can do so they won't even try, that'll work. Hohoho
....Again, what world are you living in where we suddenly coddle people with addictions and depression? We still treat people like shit because depression and addiction are "hidden diseases", and therefore don't garner as much sympathy. I wonder if it would be different if people wore casts on their head to signal an issue.
I really wish these evil crybullies would just drop dead. I suffer from gender identity disorder, and these people are making my life and the lives of others like me harder by presenting their awful selves as representative of us.
Saved comment
SleepyCowie ยท 450 points ยท Posted at 01:24:54 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If "I don't have a problem with [blank]" translates to "I have a problem with [blank]", your translator sucks.
It's intentionally looking to pick fights with and alienate people around you.
RazarTuk ยท 108 points ยท Posted at 01:57:08 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't have a problem with the translator
neveragoodtime ยท 86 points ยท Posted at 02:03:39 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Why do you hate the translator so much?
r2d2_21 ยท 167 points ยท Posted at 02:44:43 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because it's not a cislator.
theJigmeister ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 03:15:13 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Bravo.
SuperFLEB ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:37:08 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"I hate the trans right now."
SleepyCowie ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 03:39:16 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think it's putting a degree of malicious intent where there isn't any.
So, I guess... uh... we settle it the usual way?
milamayfield ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 12:35:35 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, I think it's shitty to say "you look good for being trans!", but it certainly isn't wrong to tell a trans person they look good without having to mention them being trans.
Of course, this doesn't work in Tumblr land. Acknowledge they're trans, you're cishet scum. Don't acknowledge. you're erasing trans voices. Has anyone not given up on making these people satisfied?
For clarification - my best friend is MtF and I would never say "you look like a real woman!" to her.
SleepyCowie ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:15:02 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A lot of these seem more tactless than mean spirited. Like, the Real woman or look good for being trans (I imagine) were more intended to mean something like "I wouldn't have been able to guess you were trans."
But I think part of the problem is that it's just a really weird and awkward thing to talk about at all for either side.
milamayfield ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:17:12 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, I don't think people mean it in a mean-spirited way. I was also drunk when I wrote that. She won't bitch someone out for saying it, but for her she's worked very hard at transitioning to be seen as just a woman, so it's what they call "being clocked". She prefers people don't see her as trans at all.
SleepyCowie ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:23:57 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, that... It's like, I'm not entirely sure where to go with a conversation when "I'm Trans" is like, their opening line, y'know? Especially the ones that treat Cis like a slur.
milamayfield ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:32:48 on February 2, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, she's not Tumblr-ish at all, she's just a cool person.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:56:20 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Why is it shitty? Most people have strong features due to DNA that make them look strongly one way or the other. It's surprising when someone looks good despite their DNA saying they should look otherwise. I've known people with cystic acne and after their medical treatment, you never would have guessed they had it in the first place. They were proud to look the way they did when the deck was stacked against them.
milamayfield ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:13:43 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I understand your point, but my best friend is trans and as opposed to Tumblr, she doesn't like being seen as trans. So when someone says "wow, you look really good for being trans!" she's not necessarily offended, she just feels she's being noticed for being trans and not the woman she wants to be. I do understand where you're coming from though.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:25:47 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you for understanding where I'm coming from. That's really all I'm asking. I am receiving therapy for ASD and I get the comments "Wow, I never would have expected you to have ASD!" and it really is a compliment. I'm proud of all that I've had to struggle through (though not proud to have it at all) and to have someone recognize those struggles by seeing me the way I want to be seen is such a relief.
milamayfield ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:31:38 on February 2, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think most people prefer to be seen as part of the norm rather than part of the "other". I see the whole Tumblr thing as a teenage angsty way to get noticed that they'll hopefully get out of. And get real treatment if any are mentally ill, not self diagnosing.
Ssilversmith ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 04:35:40 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is a case of projection resembling parody.
SodlidDesu ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 07:16:31 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's why "Who gives a fuck?" is my usual answer.
That one's a lot harder to...
Oh god no!
jakemaniang ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 05:59:25 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It must translate "no" to "yes" with that fucking logic
epicnonja ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 09:13:40 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And that's why it's rape
Lots42 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:51:35 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everything is rape
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:03:40 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Rape is rape
5th_Law_of_Robotics ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 13:27:25 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think the biggest impediment to trans people being accepted are trans activists.
I've never seen them be anything but insufferable.
kingpiece1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:29:26 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
You chose a book for reading
SleepyCowie ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:19:52 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Reminds me of Ben Shapiro, who says that if someone calls you a racist, sexist or whatever without any evidence, the response shouldn't be to try and defend yourself, but to call them an asshole and call them out on it.
amontpetit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:43:05 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Don't you worry a out blank, let me worry about blank
Roboto_potamus ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 09:44:34 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Don't you worry about blank, let me worry about blank.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:02:57 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
thatsthejoke.jpg
lostmyhxlo ยท 299 points ยท Posted at 02:14:54 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Wow, I love your outfit, you look so nice today!"
"What's that supposed to mean???? Was I ugly yesterday?!??!"
That's how stupid this sounds.
dotmadhack ยท 49 points ยท Posted at 04:59:53 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
David Mitchell actually has a funny video about this.
lostmyhxlo ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 06:56:51 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Haha. The eternal struggle of compliments.
Kataphractoi ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:22:08 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's why I never give compliments.
Avamander ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:24:10 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I haven't encountered that struggle. Do tell where you can struggle with compliments.
dreamykidd ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:25:27 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Did you watch the video?
Avamander ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:02:50 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know what I meant with that comment. I just woke up that time.
Echo1883 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:29:56 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I haven't encountered that video. Do tell where you can find that video.
lostmyhxlo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:46:25 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I dunno. I couldn't think of anything good to say.
EternalRocksBeneath ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:44:01 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Of course be does, because David Mitchell is amazing.
lokibo ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 06:48:24 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's what we call a backhanded compliment.
lostmyhxlo ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 06:51:07 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. Love your flair, by the way.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:26:16 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And now you know why I never give anyone any compliments.
lostmyhxlo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:46:51 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I see.
homestar440 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:37:21 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Gah, Meeghan, I just said you look nice!
lostmyhxlo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:08:14 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hah!!
Kafke ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 06:36:33 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Which is this in reply to? It doesn't match any of the images.
It's more like saying: "you dressed yourself? But you look so nice!"
lostmyhxlo ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 06:52:11 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
None. I was just making a general statement that this post was a bunch of malarkey.
Sceye ยท 125 points ยท Posted at 03:13:44 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"I like blonde hair"
"I wish Adolf Hitler and the Aryan Race prevailed during the second world war and the inferior races were wiped out"
clomjompsonjim ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 10:03:45 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The OP reminds me so much of this scene from one of my favourite movies...watch for about 3 mins
bobojojo12 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:05:11 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ur strawnaning a strawman argument in defence against a strawman argument.
what a time to be alive.
gillesvdo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:32:39 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's strawmen all the way down!
[deleted] ยท 120 points ยท Posted at 02:12:09 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"I don't want to fight you."
"Wait, I didn't say that."
"Stop trying to put words in my mouth!"
kommiesketchie ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 08:10:25 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
(Dude, I love your hair!)
"He doesn't like you"
(I didn't say that!)
"I don't like you either!"
The_Irish_One ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 08:39:50 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Reference : http://youtu.be/PbSixPMrT2o
youtubefactsbot ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 08:41:25 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
bot info
The_Irish_One ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 08:43:15 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Good job.
philoponeria ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:41:09 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sounds like the cantina scene from star wars. Lesson to be learned, someone is going to lose an arm.
[deleted] ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 02:07:15 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes. Obviously it's because I think trans individuals are deceitful and not that I'm genuinely happy that a friend chose to open up and reveal something very personal about themselves. Yup.
Bob9999999999999 ยท 36 points ยท Posted at 00:54:53 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A lot of Kafkatrapping going on in there
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 09:04:05 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
tapofwhiskey ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:05:17 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hadn't heard about it either before. This link summed it up pretty well
Mutt1223 ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 01:22:01 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is their goal to alienate literally everyone?
_Discofunk_ ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 04:09:57 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes.
dragonpaladin ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 04:48:45 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm sorry, you must be new here. Welcome to tumblr, you cishet white bigot genocidal transmysoginistic triggering problematic patriarchial culture appropriating piece of shit. Now please check your privilage and feel guilty for existing.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 10:21:05 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Triggered.
NotACasul ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 01:43:38 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
These responses shows that the comic author is extremely pessimistic about what other people say about them.
Looks like they have low self-esteem, and/or narcissism.
Maybe I'm looking too hard into this.
246011111 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 07:01:25 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lots of trans people do indeed have low self esteem. Comes with the territory. :/
Augmata ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 07:53:50 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Am trans. Can't confirm. (because self esteem too low to voice an opinion)
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:09:41 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Co-morbidity studies should be done on this.
ShitLordStu ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 02:33:03 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think we need a translator over here.
SodlidDesu ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 07:27:39 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's translating to...
Tada!
Diesel-66 ยท 72 points ยท Posted at 00:47:50 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Trans identity one is true if you are dating/fucking them
LordCptSimian ยท 119 points ยท Posted at 00:56:49 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I love how on tumblr surprise dick/vagina is considered perfectly OK, and any reaction other than complete acceptance is "transphobic." I really don't have a problem with trans people, but if I was with a transwoman that passed as cis and never mentioned she was trans and then one thing leads to another and her pants come off and there's a penis... Yeah, sorry but no. I imagine if a straight women was out with a guy and she took him home and then finds out her boyfriend has a vagina she wouldn't be thrilled about it either.
[deleted] ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 02:38:28 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Like many fellow gay men, I find the idea of being in proximity to ladybits rather unsettling. That reaction doesn't stop if those ladybits are attached to a bloke. I do NOT want to have to deal with that surprise while i'm getting lucky.
Garkaz ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 06:24:50 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is exactly the problem, except there are just less of you compared to heterosexuals so it seems like straight men are the only ones complaining.
bluescape ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 15:03:57 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The solution: we need more gays
Dvn90 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:04:51 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Translation: I'm a self hating transphobic gender queer
TweedleNeue ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:13:12 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah well it really depends on the person, as much as I love men having a penis, I've seen some trans men who are attractive enough for me to consider dating.. let alone sleeping with. (Inb4 I'm dehumanizing)
TheLonelySamurai ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:16:33 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
No, thank you for speaking up. You're not 'dehumanizing' at all and personally I think it's really cool when a gay guy can give dating trans guys a shot. (Plus, trans guys are just hot.) Honestly this is the one thing I hate about trans issues being brought up in here. It becomes a thinly veiled circlejerk about Everything Wrong With Trans People in here sometimes. I was actually featured in /r/SubredditDrama once for mentioning that some gay guys really, really don't care (and some gay tops? Find it a turn on) if their boyfriend has something a little different in his pants. Not to mention trans male genitalia can be....really ambiguous (NSFW), and some guys also find that a turn-on.
Personally the whole "DAE Gays hate vaginas?" thing just gets kind of old, whether or not we're specifically talking about trans issues. :/ I get not wanting to interact with one sexually if that's not your bag, but jesus can we get beyond school yard cooties level about stuff?
G19Gen3 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:06:18 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Psh
Shitlord.
terpin ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 01:32:27 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't mind my ladies having a little something extra, but you're right - disclosure before things become intimate is important. It's only fair.
SodlidDesu ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 07:18:35 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Black and white with an area of gray for hermaphrodites
Isrulius ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:04:38 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
........what?
Ssilversmith ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 04:36:44 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
He like sausage with his tacos.
FireworkFuse ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:07:14 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Mmm chorizo
Ssilversmith ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:58:38 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Gives me the shitz but damn is it tasty with some eggs, pan fried jalopeno, and a dash of tapiteo
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:26:50 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Ratzing- ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:00:31 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lentejas con chorizo mate. It's basically lentil soup with chorizo. It's fucking amazing if done properly, pm me if you want a recipe.
FireworkFuse ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:11:48 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think its pretty good on nachos but my problem with it is that some places serve it without draining the grease away from the meat and i hate that.
GrandTusam ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:54:46 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Make a sandwich with it
barelyonhere ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 05:20:16 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They would date a trans person, but they'd like to know about their history, first.
Was that really that hard to understand?
propaladin ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 04:51:39 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like this whole argument from tumblr about how not wanting to have sex with someone with certain genitals is trans people expressing their fear of not being accepted through anger and hate. As a gay trans man, I'm scared that I won't find a guy who's okay with me because of my parts. I do plan on getting SRS, but I don't know how late that will be into my life. And I don't want to enter a relationship with someone just because they think that it's their fetish - especially since, like most trans people, I'm uncomfortable with my genitals.
That doesn't mean that I should blame guys who refuse to go out with me for being uninterested, especially when adding sex to the equation, which is what I think is going on with this whole argument; trans people who do blame others for not going out with them, fearing that they'll never find someone.
Ironically, most of the people who I see make this argument are nonbinary, so they wouldn't be going out with straight or gay people anyways.
Augmata ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 07:46:45 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This, very much. I do think that some of these arguments are made by ideological people ("Gender doesn't exist and genitals aren't gendered and everything is the same!! etc") but I think that for a lot of others, this is simply an expression of fear. I never made arguments like these, but as a transgirl, I was always very scared of being rejected. Everyone is. Rejection always hurts. But I thought it would be yet another problem that I have to deal with, and yet another reason why someone I like might reject me. That's scary.
I'm not surprised that ideas like these have flourished in communities which spend a lot of time on the internet, either. Because when you actually meet people, you will often find that your fears, whatever they might be, are often unfounded. But if you spend a lot of time alone, just thinking about things like these, fears have a way of growing and growing.
That's something I noticed too, weirdly enough.
ShitLordStu ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:15:57 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Serious question. What's wrong if someone has a fetish, and is attracted to you? I only see this really in the Trans community. What is the difference between that and say big boobs, a lot of tatoos, or being tall.
propaladin ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:09:36 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's creepy. It's kind of hard to explain. Most trans people don't want to be seen as trans, they want to be seen as just a guy or a girl. I want to be able to transition and put my past - and my biology - behind me. If they're only attracted to me because I'm trans, it's kinda creepy. I'm a person, not a sex toy, y'know? I exist beyond my status as trans, even if tumblr tries to convince you otherwise. I mean, if someone happens to find me being trans is sexy, and they don't mind if I fully transition, they see me as something beyond being trans, then I don't mind, really. You can't control your fetishes. I just don't want to be reduced to my genitals.
ShitLordStu ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:34:49 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Makes sense. Thank you.
Chicup ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:35:28 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Help me out here, I'm old. So you were born female, but feel you are male, and a gay male, so you want to find a gay man who is happy having sex with someone born female, who feels they are really a gay man?
propaladin ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:50:51 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, yeah, you got it. Genetically female, I consider myself a guy, and I'm only interested in guys. I know, it sounds ridiculous. I do plan on having sexual reassignment surgery, and sex isn't important to me, but yeah. I'd be fine with a bisexual man, too (which I might have more luck with?)
TheLonelySamurai ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:25:43 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You'd be surprised, lots of gay guys are cool with trans men. Honestly, only two of my ex partners are bisexual guys, I've dated mostly gay men. (It helps that I'm a bottom, and that I'm cool with using both holes, I'll admit. Lots of gay tops are really into the fact that I'm a "double bottom".)
Chicup ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:14:04 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was thinking of a bi guy as your best bet.
Kafke ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 06:38:10 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is really the only disclosure thing I agree with. If you come with something non-standard, it's best to disclose before it's relevant.
Goes for anything, really. Not just trans stuff.
246011111 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 06:56:45 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think before the pants come off/before going to a second location for sexytimes is perfectly reasonable. (Tbh, it's also good self preservation -- the last thing you want is to get into an intimate situation with someone who will become violent when they find out.) The problem is when people move the goalposts on acceptable disclosure. It's like they can't stand the idea of accidentally being attracted to a trans person so much they want it to be the first thing we say to them, because god forbid we touch or kiss first despite my trans status being completely irrelevant to that.
Tl;dr dating while trans sucks.
SodlidDesu ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 07:24:48 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not trying to be offensive or anything but where is your personal disclosure goal post? When do you feel it's right to disclose?
GiverOf_BadAdvice ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:50:41 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Apparently not before the first kiss, which is where as a cis I would be offended to not be informed of, hence where this issue is springing up, I imagine. I have no interest in men, and whether you identify as a woman or not, if there's a penis I'm going to identify as having been tricked into having kissed a man and react accordingly.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:37:43 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So you expect a trans person to disclose their status as soon as anyone begins to flirt with them? That's incredibly awkward, especially when some flirtations won't go anywhere.
"Hey, can I buy you a drink?"
"I just want to inform you I'm a pre-SRS trans woman!"
SodlidDesu ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:24:23 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But when is the best time? I mean, I know everyone is different but we're talking about "moving the goal posts of disclosure" here.
So, I guess I'll say, when do you expect someone to disclose?
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:29:46 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I would expect someone to disclose before any clothing came off.
But I'm also bi, so the idea of seeing a vagina when I was expecting a penis doesn't really bother me.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:05:08 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm glad that you're comfortable with it, but quite a few people aren't you. One should consider the norm in these situations to find what would be most considerate.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:10:17 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know most people aren't me. That still doesn't change the fact that I wouldn't expect a transgender person to disclose that they aren't cis to every person who hits on them in a bar. When things start to escalate, sure. Before you start getting undressed or leave to go to somebody's place, of course. But right after a person tells you you're attractive and asks where you're from? No.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:18:22 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I usually make sure someone's actually interested in what I've got before we'd even get to the point where anyone was even considering physical relationships.
SodlidDesu ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:37:56 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What counts as escalation?
SodlidDesu ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:32:22 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But a cis heterosexual person who wants to have sex with another cis heterosexual person would've bought this person a night's worth of drinks if we're sticking with the "hitting on someone at a bar" analogy. At that point "What the fuck?" could be considered an understandable reaction due to misleading the person.
Now Person A can be open-minded and go with it or leave but either way they've been mislead.
I know it makes bar crawling more difficult but that's the rub.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:19:14 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Awkward as it is, it's up to the pursuer to ask the appropriate questions in order not to end up feeling used/mislead because they couldn't talk about it. Unfortunately, this line of questioning (which effects less than 5% of the population) would have to be asked to everyone because of they're feeling incredibly awkward by identifying as that statistically anomaly.
SodlidDesu ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:22:00 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nah, I could easily work that in "Hey, How ya doing? Do you have a penis? Can I buy you a drink?"
Pretend to be play for a second then say "No. Seriously."
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:26:11 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Love it. Let's forget the talking and just print it on a shirt.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:34:55 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Really though, perhaps there needs to be new terminology that describes what someone's looking for. Initially I think of the originally gay phrase of "Friends of Dorothy" to describe a similar usage.
GiverOf_BadAdvice ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:19:45 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, they don't have to, but I'm pointing out that a lot of people are going to feel misled or tricked if it doesn't come pretty early. Not terribly so unless it's gone quite a ways, but still.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:20:36 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Of course, the natural reply is: "Well, it's their fault for not asking."
246011111 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:39:32 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You don't think that's a really reductionist way of looking at things? Have you ever actually met a trans person? The whole principle is that trans people have a hell of a lot more in common with the genders we identify with than the sex we were born with, in personality, presentation, social interactions, etc. To say penis = man and be done with it is to write off everything that makes someone who they are.
GiverOf_BadAdvice ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:18:41 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I identify trans people as their preferred gender, but their feelings don't invalidate mine either.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:22:17 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Netipotamus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:09:48 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think you raise a valid point about masculinity and femininity not being solely dependent upon one's biological sex. How we conduct ourselves, the way we present who we are through personal style, the thoughts we express, etc. all work together to create attraction. Pansexuality may be the most inclusive sexual identity, but that doesn't mean a universal attraction to ALL people ALL the time. Mutual attraction is intimate and unique, and it usually begins before we are fully known (physically or emotionally) by the other person.
"Being tricked into kissing a man" I think is less about denying there was a connection, an attraction, an interest, and more about unknowingly beginning a sexual encounter with different physiological terms and constraints than you were initially expecting. Sexual dynamics should always, always be consensual with both parties feeling comfortable to engage. When I invite someone to be sexually intimate with me, I disclose things that may be sensitive or difficult so that I can ensure I will feel safe and accepted while also ensuring my partner is prepared to be patient and compassionate about what I've revealed. We both deserve the opportunity to say "I'm uncomfortable with this" and to have that be respected.
comicconcarne ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:31:43 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
...username checks out?
What would you consider "reacting accordingly"? I would assume just nipping off the relationship there, but I don't have a sexuality that would cause that reaction so I honestly don't know how much it would offend you.
GiverOf_BadAdvice ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:21:55 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Presumably, yeah, and probably a fair bit of being grossed out/some anger, which could easily hurt feelings on both fronts.
If it goes further (past first/second base) I obviously wouldn't condone threats/violence, but one can easily see how they happen when people are delivered such a shock and feel so violated.
SodlidDesu ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:19:07 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, granted I am in a similar position as you and that's why I was curious as to where they personally drew the line.
LordCptSimian ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 07:12:19 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, that has to suck. It's really easy to sit here on my computer and make fun of tumblrinas while forgetting that most of their issues come are coming from a position of pain. I can't even imagine what it's like to be trans and trying to find a partner. Or you know, just being trans. And yeah, it seems like there still are a large amount of cis people that think that trans people need to tell them they are trans at first meeting. And that's fucking awful. And I hadn't even thought about the self preservation issue (that's my actual privilege showing), but holy shit you're right.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 12:03:25 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Angus-Zephyrus ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 12:13:38 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
See the tricky bit is that many people actually don't mind trans people if they find out once proper contact is established. If a trans person reveals themselves at the first meeting, more often than not, that's it. that's who they are to that person. "Lily who you met in a pub and is studying to be a mechanical engineer" is infinitely more approachable than "Lily the transgender woman".
The ones I know make it a rule to always divulge before sex, but until then do whatever.
Edit: First meeting, not meating. You're supposed to divulge BEFORE the first meating, not during it.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:02:55 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
One could avoid many topics to be more approachable. Most Republicans I know specifically make sure not to mention it until later.
Angus-Zephyrus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:50:32 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Okay, cool. So...?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:52:26 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Omittings don't make friends.
Angus-Zephyrus ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:19:14 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Neither does running up to someone screaming "I'm Trans" and still expecting them to take you seriously as a person. Nope, let 'em get to know you first.
Hazelwolf1 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:09:24 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Dare I say that would be good advice for anyone looking to get into an intimate relationship, however brief?
246011111 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:33:31 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Of course, but trans people face a higher risk of negative repercussions, particularly trans women.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 01:24:26 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Translate: "Bigoted shit."
Sir_hammer_time ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 05:11:30 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I told this girl I was dating once that I didn't really fully understand the mindset of being born with a penis but thinking you had a vagina. (Not exactly that word for word, but nonetheless an innocent comment and I wanted to understand further) she responds with, "I'm going to call you on your shit." I sat back and my chair and just wondered what hornet's nest I had kicked.
SuperFLEB ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:58:22 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Oh, 'You're wrong'. That explains everything. Thanks for the clarification!"
G19Gen3 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:05:24 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm straight. I like people of the opposite sex that were born straight. Crucify me.
cjtotalbro ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 12:40:04 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
By that point you're obligated and your consent is merely a formality.
Meatslinger ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:31:59 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, that one always gets me. On the rare occasion it comes up in dialogue, I put it this way.
If a gay man met another gay man at a bar, and they decide to hook up, and then while things are getting hot and heavy, one of them wipes of their fake stubble, drop their pants and flashes their vagina, and says, "Surprise! I was actually a woman all along, and you're actually straight!" the entire LGBT community would be in an uproar. There's no doubt that coercing someone to have sex with you on fraudulent premises is an offence, and even considered a form of rape in some legal circles. So, why should it be any different if a straight man or woman went to bed with someone they expected to be the opposite gender, and that other person did a surprise-reveal that they actually had matching genitalia?
MemesXDCawadoody ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 04:54:53 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Shoutout to the dude benching 405lbs in the background of that gym panel
The_Phantom_Fap ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:44:11 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I want to read the much more interesting comic about that guy.
[deleted] ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 03:23:16 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
FighteRox ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 04:25:47 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wow, you seem like the opposite of lesbians who reject trans girls because of what's in their pants.
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 04:28:44 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
TheLonelySamurai ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:36:01 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Huh. Out of curiousity, would you date a trans guy? Like fully binary, masculine trans guy? (Here, like him.) Generally, as a trans guy, I found that my gay partners tended to be into masculine guys (I'm not like...hardcore masc in the least, but I've been told I'm 'laid back' masculine, whatever that is), but being total tops, they were really, really into the fact that I was a bottom who had two holes and that I was A-okay with using the front one. In fact, I have to laugh because sometimes I would have to be like 'yo, fuck me in the ass' because they were super into the front hole once they got it.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:45:27 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
TheLonelySamurai ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:43:09 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hah, first thing is first, that guy isn't me! Although I've been told I'm not bad on the eyes either. :P I just don't give out my pics online because...trans people have a bad habit of getting their pics stolen and used for less than savory things. (I think I would blow a fuse if my pic ended up on a blog like Dirt, a trans exclusionary radical feminist that has a HUGE hateboner for trans men, who she views as patriarchy brainwashed lesbians.)
Just a head's up, trans guys often use expensive prosthetics that are pretty much above and beyond anything you can get on the market. I had a $350 one at one point (lol, hilariously enough I swear I think someone stole it during a move), and there were many 'for scientific research, I swear, bend over and present me your butthole!' moments with casual sex-friends, and no one could tell the difference. If you're curious about what one of them looks like, the Reel Magik on Youtube should give you an idea of the quality. (NSFW obviously, it's a prosthetic penis.)
That's what the general consensus seems to be, although I practice pompoir so there's really no complaints for either hole. :P
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:45:15 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
TheLonelySamurai ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:45:34 on February 2, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Isn't that thing cool? The model I had was so fun to play with, honestly sometimes I had trouble getting my friends to stop pinching the soft, cushy outer layer between their fingers and playing around with the gel-filled sac lol. They generally feel really good though, like, to quote a friend of mine, "I definitely feel like something expensive is sliding inside my ass". :P The same technology on a more affordable, less advanced scale is used in the $100~ or so VixSkin line, if you're ever in the mood for a dildo that doesn't suck. It has a firm inner core, but a soft, squishy outer layer that makes it a breeze to take. I don't know how fond you happen to be of anal masturbation, but the VixSkin line is really nice for that. :)
kanicot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:14:22 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Are you saying lesbians should date transwomen even if they have a penis?
TheLonelySamurai ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:37:17 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There are some lesbians who are totally cool with that. Not all lesbians are obviously, but some really don't care.
kanicot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:17:19 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The problem is when I see people giving lesbians crap for not wanting to date a woman who has a penis.
TheLonelySamurai ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:24:51 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm going to be honest here, I see far, far more fixation with lesbians who seem to think trans women are coming out en masse to destroy sacred lesbian spaces than I ever see actual trans women who say a woman is being transphobic for not wanting to date a woman with a penis. I see most trans women go "Eh, I don't blame her, I have a preference for vaginas too".
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:29:50 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Uh... well... um...
FighteRox ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:06:28 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think what I said is implying anything other than that there are two existing views that are opposite to each other.
dare3000 ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 04:56:52 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"I went to sleep last night on a comfy pillow." translation: "I dream of suffocating trans ppl with pillows."
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 03:22:31 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Mfw reading all this http://imgur.com/OovDiFP
alexmikli ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 06:38:42 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
disregarding the rest of the comic, that dude is dapper as fuck.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 08:17:24 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
He reminds me of Prince.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 10:22:00 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Off-topic, but your flair is perfection.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:03:04 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Aww thanks! :D
sauron50 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 06:51:11 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cislater: "That dude is ugly as fuck."
SodlidDesu ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 07:26:23 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
frist of all how dare yo u
harryballsagna ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 06:33:07 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"We want to help everybody understand trans people by showing you that everything you say is offensive to them."
Should work a treat!
Friendlyvoices ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 01:27:14 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Should be titled, "What I think people mean when they talk to me".
casc1701 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 08:41:10 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"I would not date a trans person" - Transphobic piece of shit "I would date a trans person" - self-important piece of shit we don't want your pitty
There's no way we can win, the only logical answer to those SJWs is "go fuck yourself"
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 00:55:38 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd be pretty unhappy if I got offended every time anyone said anything about transgender people, too.
Wings0fIcarus ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:07:51 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So what I gathered as a cis white person is to never talk to a trans person? Got it, cool thanks for clearing that up for me.
bobojojo12 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 11:03:55 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
this whole fuckn subreddit is 90% strawman
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 11:58:19 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There is literally no complement that can be given to a person with a personality like that what won't be turned around and interpreted as an insult.
I tend to avoid people like this and not say anything beyond what is absolutely essential.
abuttandahalf ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 12:29:30 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"How much straw do you want on your man, miss?"
"All of it"
"Pardon me?"
"I want all the straw.
bobbymcpresscot ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:46:03 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can't I just not care?
Please tell me I can just not care.
I'm just going to not care.
Reality_Facade ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 07:01:20 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So what I'm gathering from this is that there's literally no way to not offend a trans person. Is that correct?
ChaosOpen ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 08:23:09 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yup, because they want to be accepted.
JohnGalt316 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 08:14:06 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
amazing how many trans people think they can have sex with you without revealing they are trans
Angus-Zephyrus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:23:08 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The majority don't, as much for their protection as yours.
Mezase_Master ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:05:35 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So what can you say that doesn't piss them off?
Mungus_Plop ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:06:34 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
According to the trannylator, what you said translates to "trannies whine and cry about everything"
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:11:55 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nothing.
alexmikli ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 06:42:50 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly a lot of these are true. It's not that the statements -can- be used well, it's just that, from this person's(and my) experience, every time someone says these things out loud they're immediately going to follow it with something douchey. The "I don't have a problem with trans people" one, especially. It's pretty much always followed with complete assholery.
However, most of the time people do this out of ignorance and not hatred, so it's not that hard to ignore.
SodlidDesu ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 07:29:14 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think that this entirely depends on where it is in a conversation.
If you start off by saying it, you're probably about to say some dumb shit.
If the tumblrite with the translator says "How do you feel about trans people?" and you reply with it, I can see it going smoothly.
Pureburn ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:03:50 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"I think I might take tomorrow off"
TRANSlator...
"In order to systematically commit genocide on all trans fuckfaces."
Tubaka ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:32:20 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Prince is trans?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:47:37 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Damn it, the worst part is that like half of their points are actually not wrong.
MrQuiggles ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:41:43 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Why do they always suck at drawing
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 01:43:12 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I actually sort of agree with these, but I get that the TiA userbase is mostly straight people who only interact with these issues through making fun of tumblr.
gotasugardaddy ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 03:01:33 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I agree with some of them, but there are also a few that are a bit too smug and I haven't ever experienced someone saying that before
Most of these things are like the 'politically correct redneck' meme. Someone tries to say something nice but accidentally say something stupid because they haven't ever interacted with a person in that way before. I've had people say some stupid shit to me before but I just poke fun at them and we both get a laugh out of it.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:05:00 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
?? Link?
Never mind, I have google.
gotasugardaddy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:06:56 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Its pretty funny if you find a couple of good ones.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 03:09:12 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know someone who told me, "I'm not homophobic, I have no problem with fags as long as they don't rub it in my face." LOL. Reminds me of that meme and this comic.
Wwwi7891 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 01:46:47 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I really don't know about this one, there's some truth in there interspersed with some strawmanning.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 01:48:54 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 01:50:19 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I actually agree with all of them, especially "I'm glad you're being honest with me about being trans." What smug asshole says something like that? And the "real woman" comment is pretty fucked up too.
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 02:04:46 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well the fact is, if you're potentially considering dating them, that is a factor. Some people want to have children with their partner, they can't do that with a trans person. Some people just have mental hangups they can't get past. If it just comes up in a random conversation, yeah. That's fucked up. The "I would date a trans person" is also something that may be them showing interest in the person in a scummy way.
In addition, it IS hard to switch pronouns if you've known the person for a long period before hand. If you've know them as Antonio for 13 years, and they are now Antonia, then its not going to be like an instant switch. Its something people have to learn to do.
"I've never met a trans person before" is entirely valid too. When less than 1% of the population has gender dysphoria and people aren't open, its entirely possible they've never met a trans person. Hell, they might have but may not have known. Its not wrong to assume you've never met a trans person before.
And the last one is literally just seeking a problem, there's no way around it.
SplurgyA ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:16:13 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The last one can be a Kafkatrap, but more often than not that sentence is followed with a but. Like "I'm not racist but...". Which is probably what they're getting at; if someone says "I don't have a problem with trans people" as a qualifier to what they're about to say, then it's probably something dodgy (unless it's literally like "I don't have a problem with trans people but it's really annoying when they have that gender conference around the corner from here, because then I have to park like 6 blocks away from my house because all the nearer spaces get taken")
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 04:54:32 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They should have put a but, because it can also be "how do you feel about trans people?" "I don't have a problem with trans people."
That seems like the only time it should be said.
[deleted] ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 02:48:24 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There was absolutely no discussion of dating in the quote I was talking about. You don't have the right to know if a random stranger is trans, and if a friend tells you that they are trans it doesn't mean they were "dishonest" if they didn't tell you.
They aren't being "dishonest" if they don't tell a romantic partner either, even though it is highly advisable that they tell a romantic partner for the reasons you mentioned. Also, the scenario you suggested really only applies to dating and long term relationships. If you're just hooking up with someone randomly, they could be anyone--they could be trans, they could be married, they could have kids, they could have tattoos, they could be in a gang, they could be a different religion than you, they could be bisexual or gay or just experimenting with their sexuality. If any of those things are a such huge risk for you, then you shouldn't have random hookups and you should save yourself for a dedicated relationship where the other person is going to tell you almost everything about their life.
No it isn't. You have absolutely no idea if you have met a trans person before, considering the fact that they can look just like any other person. Saying "I've never met a trans person before," means you have never met someone who was a) visibly trans or b) told you that they were trans. You may have met several trans people before without ever knowing they were trans, that's what the comic is saying. Sometimes, you can't tell just by looking at someone. If you live in a big city, odds are you have met a trans person before.
Not all trans people have gender dysphoria though. Also, those statistics are for people who have had lower surgery, which is why the statistics tend to say that there are more trans women than trans men, when in reality it is more like 50/50 in my experience with the trans community. We don't know how many trans people there actually are because statistics tend to only count people who have "completed" their transition including sexual reassignment surgery on their genitalia. This doesn't account for non binary people, people who haven't come out yet, people who live full time but aren't on hormones, people who have transitioned completely except for genital surgery, etc.
That's the whole point. You can't always tell just by looking at someone. Saying "I have never met a trans person before" means you have certain assumptions about what a trans person looks like, and if a person doesn't have the qualities you assume to mean "trans", you think they aren't trans.
I see what you mean, but I also see it through their perspective. It's like saying "I don't have a problem with black people," or "I would never hit a woman." If you really didn't have a problem, it should go without saying.
dogerwaul ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 05:57:41 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, it should, but we currently live in a cultural climate that is rather hostile and bleak for transpeople. It makes sense to extend immediate support for them if the issue is brought up, because they are clearly giving you trust with that information, and the receiving person is letting them know the trust is given back. I do this when I tell people my sexuality. I appreciate being told they don't have a problem with me being gay, because a lot of people actively do. We still live in a world where it can't go without saying, because the majority of people have a problem with transgender people.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:09:30 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah like I said I sort of see both perspectives here. I also understand why some trans people are skittish and really anxious about trusting people.
FighteRox ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:21:45 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So would that mean saying "I haven't met an open trans person in real life" is OK? Honest question.
Also a bit out of topic, but in the place I'm from transitioning is not as easy as it is in countries like the US or UK (I think it's even illegal to be trans here so they wouldn't get the proper medication?), so it's quite hard to find a trans person who passes as the gender they want to present as. Would "I haven't met a trans person" apply here?
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:29:59 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well yeah.
It's probably easier than you think. For example if you have a bodybuilding community or a sports community, you probably have people using hormones anyway. If you have fertility clinics, you have people who make hormones. It might be hard to get surgery, but hormones and certain ways of dressing are what makes a person "pass" as male or female. Do you have clothing stores in your country? Do you have fertility clinics and doctors in your country?
Not to mention the fact that some trans people are born looking like the opposite sex except for their genitalia, or have the opposite puberty happen to them naturally (they're a minority but it happens). It might be more much difficult for trans people in your country, but they exist in your country just like anywhere else. You also might have met people who are still in the closet, too.
Riggybee ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 02:26:57 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I said something similar to my girlfriend. I knew from a friend that she was Trans, but never brought it up because I wanted HER to be comfortable telling me. Her genitals were none of my business, and that friend had no right telling me.
But when she DID tell me, I told her "thank you for telling me that. I already knew, but I want you to trust me and be comfortable with me and yourself before this gets serious. I'm glad you decided to tell me."
Because a LOT of Trans people stay in the closet for a long time. And then their SO comes home and sees then wearing someone else's clothes. And they're confused, and it's.. Just a confusing situation in general, especially if that Trans person has been hiding it for so long. So the Trans person telling the other person is a big step in trust. And people should be glad they are told, because imo it shows a lot of trust.
ShitLordStu ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 02:35:25 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If your dating someone, genitalia is kind of a big deal. It's kind of one of the main points, otherwise you are just friends.
Riggybee ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 02:43:22 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not if you're casually dating. And people stay in the closet for a long time about how they want to transition because they're worried how their SO may feel about it.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:21:35 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 12:32:20 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's the whole point. I don't know a single trans person who would be flattered by that.
I understand that, but that doesn't mean they aren't rude.
I don't, I do see it as them not seeing trans people as real men or women though. They weren't trying to be rude or hurtful, but that's what they meant.
But they will though, they'd probably get butthurt about it being pointed out like many people in this comment section did. Also, even if they listened, it wouldn't change the fact that they don't see trans people as real men or women, they'd just know to keep that opinion to themselves from now on. The best thing to do would be to walk away, I think.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:25:21 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They can be true but, just like we shouldn't assume anything about the trans person, they shouldn't assume we all mean bad. My ex girlfriend is mtf and she started using Tumblr near the end of our relationship. It really changed who she was as a person and the way she treated others because she suddenly had all these sorts of ideas off the bat, rather than rationalizing like she used to.
I hope she's doing alright, actually. We haven't caught up in over a year, now.
dogerwaul ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:53:46 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I dunno. I've seen a lot of minorities on the top comments. I've been there myself and I'm gay and have gender issues. Most of these are acceptable, some are too vague to be applicable, but the last one is too out of context to immediately invoke rage. It seems like rage-bait to me. They just want something to be upset about.
Kafke ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:42:36 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Some of them are accurate, others are a bit silly.
dIoIIoIb ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 09:00:02 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
it's easy to be offended when you decide what other people say regardless of what they actually said
KHJohan ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:40:57 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
thats just a weird statement
this is not what the person meant at all and everyone knows it.
meet=/=see
I would assume that a transsexual person does face many challenges when it comes to finding a romantic partner. A person attracted to the sex of transperson, would probably never know the actual sex of that person, which is a huge barrier for relationships.
Well they are not. They fell like they are women but they aren't, because feeling like something is true doesn't make it so.
This is only true if a trans person persues a romantic relationship with someone, but hides their sex. Romantic relationships are build upon on our sexualities, so if you deceive someone to think that you belong to the opposite sex, then you're just wasting everyone's time.
So what?
Uhm aren't you trying to police everyone's language about you even when you are not there? Also if pronouns aren't such a big deal, then they aren't a big deal.
uops seems there was a problem with the translation, the actual content of the sentence was:
โI donโt have a problem with trans people, but I do have a problem with prententious assholes.โ
SplurgyA ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 04:21:55 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair,
is a fucked thing to say. Because it does suggest that it's weird for a trans person to look good, ergo most trans people don't look good. Kinda like "You're pretty for a black girl" - it implies that most black girls are not pretty.
The
one is context dependent. If you literally asked someone that question, it's one thing, or if you were specifically discussing trans dating it'd probably just be a heads up that you would. They're probably more referencing the smug sort of "allies" who go "Well I WOULD date a trans person!" as if they're bragging about it. It'd be like someone going "Well, you know what? I would date an Asian!" and it's like, ok dude, you don't need to brag about it.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:15:40 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most people look like their biological gender. Most people have pretty defining features which make them look they way they do, it's in their DNA. Being able to be perceived as a gender you weren't born as despite your DNA is quite the feat. Especially considering that most people look convincingly male or female. The bulk majority of people would absolutely not look good if they tried to present as another gender.
What's so fucked about that?
Angus-Zephyrus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:17:20 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You'd be pretty surprised. You've probably passed at least one trans person on the street in the past couple of days and not noticed.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:33:07 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Statistically speaking? Not really. I know several trans individuals in my area and their look is not flattering. While I'm sure there certainly are those that are, the odds are not with them due to DNA and puberty (because of a tendency [currently] to transition after). Medical assistance can only do so much.
Edit: You're right, it's likely I didn't notice that they were trans, I likely thought they were just another ugly man or woman. If I met someone who then told me that they were trans and I hadn't recognized that they were and that they were good looking, I sure would be surprised because DNA does some harsh work when it comes to looking good and genetics. Being surprised that they won't the genetic lottery when it comes to transitioning isn't the norm and recognizing that isn't some sort of cosmic slight against transgendered people.
Angus-Zephyrus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:53:55 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Squawk squawk child abuse
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:51:39 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Child abuse? They're literally not mentally developed enough to make that choice.
Angus-Zephyrus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:18:11 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't disagree. But that was in response to the line I quoted.
TheLonelySamurai ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:08:34 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not gonna touch the 'ugly woman' part of that sentence, but trans men have a reputation for all being very, very attractive. Often we go from so-so looking women to extremely good looking men. It's been remarked upon in queer spaces pretty often. So the reality is you probably pass trans men and don't clock them as anything other than regular dudes going about their day.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:23:16 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not experiencing that in Northern California. The majority here are FtM and they're not.
TheLonelySamurai ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 02:17:27 on February 2, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ehhhh, forgive me if I don't quite agree, and somehow I doubt you have your hand on the pulse of the FtM community there unless you're also trans and have access to large groups of trans people all gathered together to even begin making comparisons. I honestly think you have a skewed view of what hormones can and cannot do as well. Just taking a look in /r/transpassing shows a mix of the rarer gorgeous people, the usual 'normal people' and some who don't pass. Not quite the "trans people are destined to be ugly" you seem to be insinuating.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:27:52 on February 2, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm sorry you don't think I can have an informed opinion on how people's bodies develop because of DNA.
TheLonelySamurai ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 08:15:01 on February 2, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hormones are the absolute bulk of what makes a person look masculine or feminine though, not "DNA". Give a trans girl puberty blockers at 11-12 before testosterone kicks in? She'll develop like a natal female once given estrogen at 14-15.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:39:03 on February 2, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
We were too focused on if we could do it, we never stopped to think if we should do it...
TheLonelySamurai ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 09:14:54 on February 2, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Except, yes we did. Literally everything else was tried before HRT and surgery if wanted became the standard of care. I don't know what post-apocalyptic, drunk-on-power mad scientist world you think doctors live in, but this has absolutely been thoroughly debated, tested, studied, and gone over with a fine tooth comb.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:58:43 on February 2, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You mean, they didn't campaign against any further research and made the topic taboo while claiming support for their positions through statistically insignificant studies claiming that brain chemistry is different in trans individuals vs cis?
There have been a definite retaliation against actually dealing with it in any other way than what trans individuals wish to. Not in ways that actually reflect what scientifically and medically relevant.
TheLonelySamurai ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 11:39:28 on February 3, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I'm gonna need a source for this because I'm smelling the distinct scent of BS. And if you source Dr. McHugh I will know you've swallowed the kool-aid on this one, so do be mindful of who you source, because this is the same guy who thinks pedophilia is 'homosexual predation on America's Catholic youth', and it's pretty much well known his views go against the APA.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:56:49 on February 3, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I mean statistically. The sample size isn't large enough to actually draw a conclusion. When your sample size is smaller than 30, you can't have a Confidence Interval that indicates statistical significance. The math isn't there and yet I see it used as the largest piece of support for the idea.
Edit: If you'd like to learn more, this is called Type I Error, and it's a core concept to mathematics and the base foundation of drawing any scientific conclusions based on any data set.
TheLonelySamurai ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:04:04 on February 5, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wait...what in the world are you trying to say, that they made the decision to treat trans people with surgery was made with a sample size of less than thirty?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:43:48 on February 5, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm saying that the support used (i.e. Claims that brain scans support the idea that trans individuals are meant to be their biological counterparts.) is not statistically and scientifically significant because of their sample size. That's what Type I error is and it makes a huge difference when you're trying to claim that the correlation between your sample set says anything at all about a larger population. Without statistical significance, these findings may as well be called pseudoscience.
TheLonelySamurai ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:32:32 on February 10, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a little confused here though, because they've done multiple studies on this, so the sample size isn't nearly what you seem to be claiming.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:05:24 on February 10, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Show me a study where the sample size is thirty or larger. I've seen this problem multiple times and no study has stood up to scientific scrutiny. I'm sorry but this is what I've been trying to tell people. The science isn't there.
TheLonelySamurai ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:25:22 on February 11, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, just taking a quick look at the studies linked here, it certainly seems as if the science is definitely 'there'. There are multiple theories and observations, but it's pretty conclusive that transexualism isn't just a flight of fancy.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:14:04 on February 11, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Good thing I wasn't talking about it in general! I certainly still think there is something wrong with the brains of transsexuals, just not that their brains are of the opposite gender. That study is trash. As for what the direct cause is, nobody will know and there won't be more effective treatment (or prevention) unless we stop the spread of misinformation and demo ozone people who critique the science there.
TheLonelySamurai ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:24:34 on February 13, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There's been multiple studies that all came to the same conclusion though. You're getting to the point where you're putting your fingers in your ears and going "NAH NAH NAH", and you're confusing me here. I don't know if you actually have any grasp of the science behind all this or if you're determined to paint trans people as "mentally ill" in a way that suits you being able to claim they're "delusional" so you don't need to respect them. I can't tell if you've truly come across studies that contradict this, or if you're one of those kinds of people. If it's the former, I'd be glad to entertain this conversation, but if it's the latter...ehh not so much. If you dig into the science it actually is pretty sound, including the same type of genetic links between higher instances of homosexuality between identical twins also proving true in transsexuals, and the hormonal causes as well. I mean, why is it so hard to believe that the brain started developing as male or female, and because of a hormonal shift later in pregnancy the body starts growing as the opposite gender. Our brains are already forming before our genitals fully develop.
As for effective treatment, it seems transitioning works pretty well. Once a patient is post-op, suicide and depression rates decline rapidly, and hover around the same as the cis population.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 08:41:39 on February 2, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If only there were an easy way to figure out what hormones people produce naturally. Maybe a double helix of amino acids. We could call it, Deoxyribonucleic acid...
TheLonelySamurai ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 09:13:09 on February 2, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No one is saying that the hormones aren't coming from an artificial source, but that doesn't stop your main point of "trans people just look weird because DNA" from being provably wrong. Go check out young transitioners. They are indistinguishable from their cis counterparts. Even many transitioners in their 20's and early 30's are too.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:11:19 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
SplurgyA ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:22:39 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I was typing out a long response and when I got to the "real woman" I just kinda went whelp and stopped there lol
-F0xyGrandpa- ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:35:07 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What sucks is their artwork could be used for much better things. The illustrations are actually quite interesting.
cruise212 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:31:20 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
TIL there is a device that will take any phrase with trans people as the subject matter and twist and distort it to make you look like an asshole.
Freefall01 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:54:26 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The guy on the party pic looks like Mark Zuckerberg
Poo-et ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:07:35 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You're saying that implying trans people are not women is misogynistic.
But my SJW handbook tells me that you're degendering the oppressed trans people with your whiteness. So uh.
Fontaine108 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:01:35 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You say you support trans people? YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY A LIAR!!!
Darthu ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:11:04 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Translates words into insecurities"
Ballpitanonymous ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:38:05 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Translate = Paranoia to trans people apparently?
SentientCactus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:14:37 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
More like, "Persecution complex enabler device!"
I can't imagine how these people could ever function as a regular person in society, what with thinking everyone's out to get them.
Lunick01 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:44:36 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe this is my cis-ness showing, but I'd think that a trans person would want to be told they look like a real (insert gender they identify as)
Too be honest, I've found myself being jealous of a few FtM people I know because in the end they end up being a more attractive man then I am. Why can't I be as sexy looking as some of these guys?
FreshFace77 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:46:53 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Let's just get something out of the way: a lot of trans people are ugly. They don't really look like humans anymore in the same way that Michael Jackson and Joan Rivers no longer looked human. I'm all for them making the changes they feel they need, but let's not blow smoke up their ass by saying they are passable.
TheLonelySamurai ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:15:56 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Uh...what trans people have you been hanging around? The vast majority just look like people. You're "clocking" the non-passing trans people while the majority move around you without you suspecting anything, which is what happens with many minority groups. (The 'worst' of the bunch are held up as a stereotype of how the whole group is.)
FreshFace77 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:28:29 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I'm very active in lgbt etc communities and your theorry only makes sense if the passable Ts largely don't participate or deny their identity (due to the nature of these events, this just isn't likely, ime). I'm not saying there aren't good looking one's, but by and large they are pretty strange looking and noticeable. I recall a woman complaining to me how waitrons call her sir when she goes out to eat, while the only reason I would have thought anything different was that she was wearing a dress. In my mind, I'm thinking about how people call me ma'am from behind because of my long hair and how it just doesn't matter, but hey it was important to her. The one's that are passable are pretty few and far between.
TheLonelySamurai ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:34:54 on February 2, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Except, that's basically what they do. It's called 'being stealth', and it's the goal for the vaaaaaaaaaast majority of trans people. People who are openly trans? That's the minority, because it sucks being openly trans, and if someone can pass, they often choose deep stealth mode. People who pass and are open casually about being trans are pretty rare compared to those who stealth. It's usually because the reactions can get tiring. Both my GF and I experience tons of weird questions because we pass and we're open about being trans.
That's just untrue. You just aren't reading the 'passing' people as trans. I also notice you mentioned trans women specifically. Trans men tend to 'pass' better after a certain point as well, and we become all but invisible to people seeking to 'clock' trans people.
FreshFace77 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 02:43:07 on February 2, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I agree trans men tend to pass better. But no, I'm not just clocking unpassables. You're over evaluating how many trans women end up passable. It's not a matter of being stealth.
TheLonelySamurai ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:18:01 on February 2, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You wouldn't be clocking passable stealth women by the very nature of the thing.
And I think you're underestimating. I belong to two of my city's (and we're a big, well known for our LGBT nightlife city) largest trans support groups, and the majority of trans women who transition before their 40's pass within 2-3 years of taking hormones. There is absolutely that 20% or so that doesn't, but the overwhelming bulk of trans people absolutely do pass.
FreshFace77 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:00:15 on February 2, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's nice to believe I'm not competent, but I assure you I am. Thanks for showing my point about how passable don't avoid the events.
Honestly, I think this is more to do with our locations than anything.
TheLonelySamurai ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:53:36 on February 3, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What are you talking about? Of course they avoid the events, where did you think I stated they don't? This is a trans only support group, cis people aren't allowed to attend, so unless you're secret-agenting your way in there to observe trans people in the wild, I very much doubt you could infer that this means they go to more LGBT+ ally events as well. For some of these people, they're deep stealth and risking a lot to stay to connected to the community through us. One girl tells her friends she sees a psychiatrist weekly when she's really coming to the support group. The fact remains though that many trans people cut ties entirely, and you absolutely would not be able to 'clock' these people. The more you pass, the less likely they are to stay in the 'limelight' in the trans community. Being treated as 'normal' in a society that seeks to pick apart trans people's lives is a pretty tempting prospect. I've even thought about doing it, and it's basically for the reasons outlined in this thread, even though I don't think you mean to. You seem committed to the fact that you're somehow a transgender spotting super detective, but what you don't seem to realize is that you're falling prey to the 'visible minority' fallacy (I forget exactly what they term this logical fallacy). You associate trans people with women like Caitlyn Jenner, and therefore you naturally clock the non-passing people much more often than you notice the passing ones.
The reality is, for trans women at least, many of them have a mix of passing and non-passing features...just like cis women do. There was a fascinating photo set done somewhere, I can't find it right now, but it was of actresses who are cisgender, and yet would be 'clocked' as trans women because of masculine facial features. In reality, I notice most trans women end up somewhere like this cute girl. She's got a mixture of passing and non-passing features, but if you passed her on the street, there is no way you would clock her because she's not 'visibly trans'.
FreshFace77 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:09:19 on February 3, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly what I said. And your cute girl doesn't pass, or at least she doesn't look normal, which is my original thesis. If I passed her on the street, I might not say "she's a trans" but I'm certainly not going to say "wow, she looks great".
I did a little research into this, and this site basically says that only about 50% of Ts street stealth and if those, really less than half can really pass, so it goes to about 10-20% by their estimate. They didn't do a scientific study but better have you or I. I couldn't find anything to back up your claim that most T girls pass.
On top of that, I've known quite a few people going through their transition, even young ones that that site claims get the most benefit from SRS and hormone treatment. I've never seen one come out as the beautiful butterfly you claim they are. And I don't have a problem dating a trans person. I don't even have a problem dating men. But I do have a problem with dating weird looking people.
I was watching WWE last night and the women on that looked weird too. Must were probably cis women, but they just don't look like humans are supposed to look.
TheLonelySamurai ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:30:30 on February 5, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You and I must have a very different threshold then, because I picked her specifically because she looks pretty much exactly like my cis best friend. The reality of the issue is that most women, cis and trans alike, have passing and non passing features. Facial Feminization surgery wasn't created for trans women after all. Neither was vaginoplasty.
This is literally anecdotal evidence. She even states on her homepage that she's not medical or a professional. Also, nowhere do I say that "most" pass, just that a rather large number of them do. If the situation were 49% of them passing, I would still consider that a huge number.
Well, I've met quite a few trans women that were indeed the "beautiful butterfly" type. I never claimed most trans women come out looking like models, but most come out looking like regular women. And yes, of course the "young ones" do, but in my experience "young" is "under thirty", before testosterone has had a chance to fully masculinize people. I know some girls who got hormone treatment at 16 who have a harder time passing than girls who got it at 24 too, it's all genetics and luck to a certain degree.
Also, no one is claiming you have to date "weird looking people". But your definition of "weird looking" is entirely subjective. Plenty of men I know would find the girl I linked to be quite attractive. Hell, there are plenty of straight men not attracted to penis in the least that use Bailey Jay as an example. Literally the other day I saw on Reddit "I'm not into trans women but...Bailey Jay, I'm sorry man but I'd bury myself balls deep into that ass and they'd have to pry me out like the Sword of Excalibur." Mass upvotes.
Passing itself is a subjective thing as well, and comprised of many different elements which ultimately makes this conversation kind of pointless and just a bunch of "my subjective reality is better than your subjective reality", which, in the end, eh. I do think having years of being in contact with the community lends my side a certain bit of credibility, and I have absolutely no dog on the fight since trans men are pretty much widely accepted to pass after a certain amount of time on hormones (though we have our own issues in early transition as well), I'm just stating what I see.
Yes, to my knowledge there isn't any openly trans women in the WWE. But from what I know of them, they seem...plastic and manufactured. Is that what you're talking about? There's certainly a small demographic of trans women who take it too far, and end up looking like a plastic surgery caricature. I stand in complete agreement there, although I would hope nobody is basing their humanity on that fact.
FreshFace77 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:41:09 on February 5, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think you really understand anything I'm saying. Thanks for trying.
TheLonelySamurai ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:34:04 on February 10, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I mean...so far I think you're trying to say "trans women are objectively weird looking", which just...isn't true. :/
FreshFace77 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:23:02 on February 10, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, I didn't say that at all. At best I said a lot of them are. See this is why I can't really respond. Your just making stuff up that I said and then attacking that. It's called strawnanning, but I don't think you're doing it on purpose.
TheLonelySamurai ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:38:31 on February 11, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But how can you say that with any certainty? How can you even begin to accurately quantify this? (Besides I guess being really creepy and doing a 2+ year study on /r/transpassing or something with the qualifier that the trans woman has been on hormones for over a year or two.) I responded initially because I think you're coming from a biased point of view because you have a certain image of trans women, and for every girl that you notice and think to yourself 'aha, see, most trans women look like this!', there's a girl like this who you wouldn't even begin to notice, and therefore she isn't counted. Most trans women are boringly normal looking, but they're pretty boringly normal looking as their desired gender. I would say the most likely situation is that there is probably as many truly 'weird looking' (i.e. non-passing, whatever) trans women as there are model-beautiful trans women, so both are a noticeable-but-somewhat rare minority.
Also keep in mind a lot of what you're doing is visible bias. Once you start looking for it, a lot of cis women start 'failing to pass' and 'looking weird' too:
http://static.tvfanatic.com/images/gallery/edyta-sliwinska-picture.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/09/16/article-2204094-117EBC20000005DC-543_224x336.jpg
http://i60.tinypic.com/df7hc7.jpg
http://d39ya49a1fwv14.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/s-EMMA-WATSON-large.jpg
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb142/caochau/ErinOConnor-Ngianhhtvinnhvotrong-1.jpg
I think you're over-analyzing trans women because you have that preconceived notion of them being trans, so you're automatically looking for masculine features where otherwise you might not be if you were under the impression that they were a cis woman.
FreshFace77 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:23:32 on February 11, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You see, you have no understanding of what I'm saying. This might be a great response in another thread. But I said a lot of trans women look weird. Do you really think that's not the case? Do they all end up beautiful butterflies?
TheLonelySamurai ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:46:44 on February 13, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is like asking if I think cis women look weird. Do you think all cis women end up beautiful butterflies? All I'm saying is that you cannot use something as diverse and unquantifiable as simply being trans as a qualifier here. You're trying to group together a huge, worldwide population with a superficial characteristic, like trying to say "I think a lot of tall men smell bad, prove me wrong", the first part has nothing to do with the next part. What does being tall have to do with them smelling bad? Just like what does 'trans' have to do with them 'looking weird'? Each trans woman's journey is so individual that it's impossible to point to 'trans' as being some sort of catalyst. There are a huge population of trans women who end up looking superiour to a lot of cis women too, but it wouldn't make sense for me to say trans women look better than cis women, because it all ends up being about individuals for which 'trans' and 'cis' status has basically nothing to do with things.
FreshFace77 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:00:50 on February 13, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Good thing I'm not, then. Again. You're making things up that I'm saying. I can't argue against your fiction. It would be like me saying "you can't say all trans women look passing and don't end up weird. Why would you even promote that, because it will set unrealistic expectations for people who are transitioning? How can you hate unpassble trans people so much that you erase them?" See how dumb that is?
TheLonelySamurai ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:49:07 on February 14, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Err....what? You're literally strawmanning what I said. Cut off the end of this statement here:
"you can't say all trans women look passing and don't end up weird. "
And I actually agree with this statement. You can't say all trans women end up passing. Just like you can't say something as broad and ridiculous as "A lot of them end up weird looking". You just seem to be upset that I'm not letting it go that I think it's stupid to use "trans" as a qualifier, because it's so broad as to basically be meaningless, like I said, it would be like saying "a lot of cis women end up weird looking", like...yes, some cis women probably do look weird, but what exactly does that have to do with them being cis?
FreshFace77 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:04:08 on February 14, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't understand why you keep erasing trans women simply because they don't turn out the way you want them to look. I get that you have your cool girls club of passing trans girls but it's really kind if mean to say the ones that didn't make the cut aren't real trans people. Dating they are weird cis people doesn't help anyone.
TheLonelySamurai ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:53:14 on February 15, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You're the one who seems to be hellbent on erasing the huge swaths of trans women who you can't immediately "clock" and therefore call "weird looking" because it doesn't seem to fit your narrative of "trans=weird". Meanwhile on the other hand I've dated non-passing trans women. I've been mistaken for a cis guy with a fetish for "trannies" and been made fun of by passing cis people with a huge mouth and no filter, and watched my ex-girlfriend's face wilt because people always seemed to find a way to remind her that she wasn't perfectly passing, and she noticed how I was getting dragged into shit simply because I wasn't afraid to hold her hand or kiss her in public.
I assume you mean "saying" and not "dating" there but this is actually false too. Pointing out "weird looking" and non-passing cis people often helps cis people realize how unfairly they're judging trans women, and often holding them to a much higher standard of performative femininity and beauty than they would if they thought she was born cis.
Also, you can drop the disingenuous sarcasm.
FreshFace77 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:21:31 on February 15, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You need to stop calling trans people "cis"simply because they don't fit what you want them to look like. They are all trans.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:32:07 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Eh, even ugly people look human, they're just not pretty humans.
Zeta42 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:31:29 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"I assume I can identify any trans person" doesn't even sound offensive.
gillesvdo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:28:44 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Conclusion: never talk to trans people, as literally anything you say will be taken the wrong way.
Or, perhaps a better conclusion would be to realise that whoever wrote this has never sincerely complimented anyone, or has only ever given backhanded compliments, and now they just project that character-flaw of theirs on the rest of humanity, in a vain attempt to make themselves look like better people in comparison.
The fact that they use the entire trans-community as cover for this attempt at reverse virtue-signalling should be met with resistance by anyone who genuinely cares for the plight of transfolk.
loganparker420 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:34:20 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Tfw women can grow better beards than you.
gotasugardaddy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:00:34 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
?
t0xyg3n ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 06:20:16 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Don't talk to trans people
SirJayblesIII ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 07:52:52 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So basically... don't talk to trans-people.
scampied ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 07:55:43 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Don't talk to tumblr users*
AnvilofSpinning ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 12:15:18 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, If you neglect the fact you are trans you are dishonest. People have a right to know what they engage with.
Yes that's because you're a delusional cunt.
[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 06:59:54 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
you are less than 1% of the population. your entire number is a rounding error. the world does not revolve around you, trannies.
Mungus_Plop ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 12:04:03 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Trans men ARE still men. Trans people who pass for the opposite sex and don't tell people they're dating/ trying to date ARE deceiving and lying.
MasterGoshinki ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 06:45:42 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Trans men are not men any more than I'm Peter pan. No, I don't play make believe, and I actually consider it negative that current society would rather live in never land than face reality.
Translate that!
TheLonelySamurai ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:21:35 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Runs it through the TRANSlator
Oh.
MasterGoshinki ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 20:12:52 on February 1, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh? Do you need to rub your butt because of the hurt I just inflicted? Sorry you can't take the truth, you only hurt yourself in the end
TheLonelySamurai ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:23:25 on February 2, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lol the fact that you don't get the reference is really cute.
MasterGoshinki ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 03:56:12 on February 2, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What's there to get, you were demonstrating your butthurt with a gif of someone rubbing their ass?
And yes, I am pretty cute, thankyou
Edit: again though, I'm not the one in danger...at least directly, of the effects of living life in delusion
TheLonelySamurai ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:13:05 on February 2, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wow, I cannot believe that I actually have to spell it out that he's literally talking out of his asshole, much like you are.
I know, like a small, out of touch fuzzy rodent of some sort. :D
You do seem to be in danger of missing the point.
MasterGoshinki ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 12:45:01 on February 2, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Woosh! I already knew that dude, bit since it was close enough, I took it and threw it right back at you. That is what you call a burn. I can't believe I have to explain that to you! LOLOLOL!
I don't get it. What you said here is not a funny/good insult. Try harder
Nope, I get the point, but it seems your delusion has alreadt spread to the point you can't understand a burn. Do you think you're actually a samurai too?
TheLonelySamurai ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:59:58 on February 3, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, this right here? This is an example of you doing this.
But I don't have time to think up le dank memes with you on the internet!
I don't know, do you think you're actually Master Goshinki? Or is picking on usernames on a site where people have usernames like "PM_ME_UR_PROLAPSED_ASSHOLE" perhaps the most bottom-of-the-barrel form of 'burn' possible?
MasterGoshinki ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 13:22:29 on February 3, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Except it's not at all. You posted something, I showed how it could be used against you instead. This is a standard form of an insult. To deny this is to deny reality, but you have already honed that ability haven't you? HAHAHA! Honed it like a samurai baby!
Try harder, I don't get it. For an insult to work well it should be clever. Yours isn't, mine was alright
Bottom of the barrel? No, medium? Sure. Yours was bottom of the barrel because it was nonsensical and has no relation to me whatsoever. My insult relates to you because you're clearly butthurt.
No, I'm not master goshinki, that's a username; but I have shown no inability to distinguish reality from fantasy, unlike you, which is why I said actually in regards to you being a samurai... but here is a good example of all this delusion only hurting yourself. You attack what you claim is my delusion, but are only doubling down on your own.
On a serious note; wake up, it will drive you crazy one day, same with the rest of the loons on this planet.
See? Even me calling you a loon is less bottom of the barrel l than you calling me a small fuzzy creature. In what way that is supposed to insult me? I have no idea
TheLonelySamurai ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:11:03 on February 5, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Have a good night Master Goshinki. I don't even know how to respond to this diatribe. Consider your internet foe vanquished from sheer boredom and confusion.
MasterGoshinki ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:22:02 on February 5, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For someone who is bored, it's strange you would even reply. I think you're more afraid that I am right...anyway, if you are confused to the point of defeat because someone disagrees with you, you need to get out more and get a social life or something.
I'm actually being serious about the latter btw. Getting better at being social is like anything, the more you do it, the better you get. Take it from me, I was once socially awkward as fuck, how I dealt with that was to constantly put myself in social situations. It did me good and will do the same for you
TheLonelySamurai ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:37:43 on February 10, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, I was honestly just pretty confused and mystified.
I don't exactly know what kind of social life you think I could be having that I don't already do. I have a girlfriend whom I adore, good friends that make me laugh, and hobbies that keep my hands busy and make me a little cash on the side. I have the little shit that bogs me down, but don't we all?
MasterGoshinki ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:46:13 on February 10, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Like a week later you respond? Kay, it wasn't too hard to figure out.
Here; I will spell it out for you: you made a joke, I turned it on you.
I also don't think trans people actually exist and I refuse to live in their fantasy world. The exception to this being hermaphrodites.
You may be confused now, but that is everything I said. If you can't understand, you need more help than I can give.
I agree, and good for you, that's good to hear
TheLonelySamurai ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:59:59 on February 11, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Dude I don't live on Reddit.
Ehhh, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one since I have the feeling you missed the point entirely of said joke in the first place.
I really shouldn't even bother, but what do you think of all the science to that points to it actually being a thing?
It was mostly the longwindedness at the end there that threw me.
MasterGoshinki ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:41:43 on February 11, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Ok, well, I have had like 40 conversations since then, so even remembering this conversation is a stretch.
More like you're either a loon or are just playing at being retarded.
What science? Gender dysphoria? It comes from the conscious mind first, it does come from the make up of the brain, but YOU create that make up. Same way for depression. Same way for ADD (although I would argue it's a little different). Modern medicine wants to blame everyone and everything else for your problem. Alcoholism? A disease. Obesity? A disease. This is clearly bullshit, but people eat it up. People like to blame their problems elsewhere.
I could actually keep going, but that's ok.
What was it? Like a paragraph?
TheLonelySamurai ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:34:31 on February 13, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Again like I said, I don't live on Reddit.
More like you didn't see the movie the first gif came from and had no idea of the context of the joke.
No, the science that points to the brains of transgender people actually being different, links to the same genetic and hormonal causes that are at the root of homosexuality, etc. That science. As for depression...you do realize that depressed people have actual physical differences in their brains too right? That's not someone consciously deciding to be depressed. The same with ADD. As for alcholics and obesity, they're more addictions than they are diseases, but they become a mental health "disease" in the sense that they become incredibly hard to treat, and we see actual physical differences in the brain of addicted people as well. It's not "blaming someone else" because ultimately when you're addicted it's up to you to solve the problem, but it certainly helps people to understand why for them it's so hard to quit drinking, or stop eating, etc, and to realize and understand that they're battling a changed brain chemistry, and that it's not going to be "normal" just like that.
MasterGoshinki ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:37:32 on February 13, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
That was a statement of fact, not an argument.
No, I didnt see the movie, but I was still able to extrapolate the meaning, and turn it on you. Again, you're either a loon or pretending to be retarded....or you have never heard a joke in your life.
And so are the brains of people with depression, and so are the brains of people with God complex. So, do we have gods living amongst us? Is not referring to them as a god, something that only a bigot would do? What are their pronouns? Your majesty? My lord? God complex is just one mental illness, out of shit tons of others that do similar things. Now, do we expect ehse people to control themselves, or throw fits till the world bends to their will, and we refer to them as gods?
As someone diagnosed, and who has known tons and tons of others with depression, I have seen the same bullshit in them that created my own circumstances. Mainly in depressed people, number 1 that I notice are lies. The lie about themselves to enough people that they begin to believe it themselves, I believe this literally causes the brain make up change.
see? I feel like you are beginning to realize that you're supporting my argument. They cause the problem, the brain adapts.
That they caused, right, I know l, I know, it's too much to expect people to be responsible to fight their demons these days. It's ok, tell them that their brain is just like that, and there is nothing thwy can do so they won't even try, that'll work. Hohoho
TheLonelySamurai ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:26:20 on February 14, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ahah, you didn't extrapolate the meaning, stop lying. You thought he was rubbing his own ass, not making it pretend to talk. That's why your "joke" fell flat. You were making a joke about something that wasn't happening.
Lol, this is like the kind of slippery slope bullshit people throw out when they're scared of homosexuality. "Maybe they'll marry their dogs next!" First off, people with 'god complexes' are often mentally ill to the extent that they can't function in society. It's a little different than saying "please refer to me as "her" and "she" now" and going about your day. Medically, people with what is commonly referred to as a "god complex" are often schizophrenic and/or psychotic, and we can trace the "god complex" to another mental disorder. Second...I have no idea what you're digging at with mentioning depression. Do we acknowledge that person...what, has depression? Yeeesss?
Yeeeahhh here's the thing, it's not even worth trying to have a good faith argument with someone who thinks that depression and addiction can be cured by simply admitting....doing what, admitting that they "caused it? All I'm really feeling from you is that you basically want to yell at mentally ill people for being mentally ill, and make them pay for it somehow because it offends your sensibilities.
I'm diagnosed with depression too, and lying is basically the last thing I d. I have a highly developed sense of Catholic Guilt leftover from a Italian Catholic upbringing. No need to think I'm lying, if I ever did lie I'd come out and confess it five minutes after I did it! (Yes, yes I did eat that cookie! And yes, that isn't a joke, I actually feel guilt over something that small. If I didn't realize someone else was looking forward to a cookie and I ate it, I'd feel a pang of guilt for being thoughtless.)
Somehow I still have depression.
People who are depressed don't "cause" a problem though. In many people depression comes from outside sources and stressors they have no control over. And addiction is chemical, it really doesn't matter at that point whether they themselves caused it, except medically at that point you'll need a two-pronged attack for treatment, treating the underlying addictive personality and treating the physical addiction. Shaming them isn't helping anybody though.
....Again, what world are you living in where we suddenly coddle people with addictions and depression? We still treat people like shit because depression and addiction are "hidden diseases", and therefore don't garner as much sympathy. I wonder if it would be different if people wore casts on their head to signal an issue.
MasterGoshinki ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:57:12 on February 14, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know what else to say brochacho. It seems you have dedicated yourself to playing retarded. Based on this alone, responding to you is pointless because you are not willing to be reasonable.
There is absolutely no point in continuing
TheLonelySamurai ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:36:07 on February 15, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Somehow I figured you wouldn't be able to have a good faith conversation. Cheers mate.
MasterGoshinki ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:30:39 on February 15, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Except I actually tried to. It's you that won't. If I show you that you're wrong all you will do is double down.
You're just not reasonable. There is not point
Lots42 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 13:52:29 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You have been downvoted twice for having a different opinion.
MasterGoshinki ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:11:36 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm used to it. Haha
cjtotalbro ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 12:37:56 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So the comic shows us that trans people has some problem where they think they can mind read?
fushigisou ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:11:02 on January 31, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I really wish these evil crybullies would just drop dead. I suffer from gender identity disorder, and these people are making my life and the lives of others like me harder by presenting their awful selves as representative of us.