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5-17: You're going to this specific school, which you cannot drop out of until you're one year away from graduating, and you're going to take all of these classes and if you decide to not show up then we're going to take you from your parents.
18+: Yeah go wherever and study whatever you want I guess
kbean826 ยท 138 points ยท Posted at 16:55:41 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I have had this idea since high school that all high schools should get much closer to trade schools in the final two years. Students are not required to get jobs in the trained skills they've acquired, but at least an 18 year old with a high school diploma could go out and actually get a job. Things like electrician, plumbing, carpentry (not wood shop, which at my towns schools was entirely a joke).
That's awesome. We had all that stuff "kinda" at my school, and I don't know if it was a demographic thing (it was an overwhelmingly middle class white school) or what, but basically all of those classes were bullshit easy A's for hobbies. It would have been awesome to leave high school on my way to college for music and still had a fair background in a trade so if it didn't work out I wouldn't have been effed.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:25:34 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They didn't just work as a dishwasher they went in as cooks in nice restaurants or assistant chefs. Or at least my friend landed a job after we graduated because of the schools program.
But hay those kids learned how to cook that's at least a life skill. I on the other hand still can't cook well haha.
Yeah...no. fast food worker's make minimum but actual restaurant cooks make about 4-5 bucks more an hour and have the potential to make a lot more at really fancy restaurants
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:02:44 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In the county I grew up in we had that. Although, it was not outright said but you knew it was the white trash poor thing to do. Which looking back now is total bullshit thing to think. I wish I had done that instead of incurring $15,000 worth of student debt without shit to show for it.
I think Mike Rowe has been campaigning this idea for a while. It sure seems like a great idea, but our society doesn't seem to value trade skills much.
They really don't. It's kinda bullshit. Many of those blue collar jobs pay pretty damn well and have not entirely unreasonable hours and benefits. More importantly, if no one wanted a job fixing my plumbing, my plumbing would just be permanently broken, since I don't know shit.
Yep. Since this post is specifically about adultism, I'll give some everyday examples to people who may not think it's widely acceptable.
First up, forcing children to hug relatives.
Why it's wrong: it ignores children's consent and teaches them that adults have the right to their body, tells them that relatives can't be toxic, etc. It also dangerously shows subtly that physical affection is the only way to show affection.
Next up, denying the identities of LGBT+ youth.
Why it's wrong: should be pretty obvious, but tells children that other people know them better than they know themselves and that their feelings about their identities aren't valid, among other things.
Next, children being flaunted as status symbols or accessories.
Why it's wrong: children are their owm people with their own thoughts and feelings. They're not an object, nor are they an extension of their parents. They're a separate being.
Other examples include thinking children owe anything to parents that provide them basics of living, using parental rules as expression of power (aka do it this way because I said so), mandatory attendance policies or no phone policies, etc.
Children are supposed to be cared for, not controlled or owned. They're supposed to be empowered.
But instead, children are forced into foster homes without their consent, they're denied information about their sexual health, denied the right to make their own medical decisions, stereotyped as being disrespectful, and have their work devalued.
"You're not old enough to make these decisions. You'll grow out of it. It's just the hormones. Oh, teenage love. It'll get better. That's impressive for your age. Stop being so childish. I can't stand kids."
And that's only if they're privileged in every other way. Many youth also have to deal with the addition misogyny, racism, homophobia, classism, transphobia, ableism, and other bullshit that society puts marginalized groups through.
[deleted] ยท 53 points ยท Posted at 18:14:40 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I cut up my arm on a rusty tool a few months ago and had to go to a quickmed place. They needed my guardian's permission to treat me because I'm 17. They were out of town and thankfully accepted the phone call. What were they going to do if they didn't answer? Or if I didn't have a guardian? Send me to the ER for a shot and some stitches? If people my age are pledging to the military why can't I make my own medical decisions? (Obviously I get the complications with lawsuits and insurance but still)
Edit: In addition, why can't I vote? Were the voting age extended 2 years earlier to 16, we wouldn't be looking at a Donald Trump presidency I daresay. But I have to rely on neoconservative baby boomers to vote for MY future? (And neoliberal baby boomers to ruin the election with Hillary Clinton)
You just said why you can't vote. The right, as well as the left, benefit from who is allowed to vote. Left doesn't want any rules on voting, because they benefit from it. The right wants to control what groups vote, because they benefit from that. Doubt this will change anytime soon.
[deleted] ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 18:33:43 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I get it. I still think it's ridiculous that kids can go off to die for imperialism at 17/18 years old, but by god... not one drop of liquor? Come the fuck on.
I would give you gold for this post. A little touched subject on intersectionality.
I'll go on a few points here:
Forcing children to hug relatives can cause children to ignore their gut feelings and goes against the "Never let anyone touch you in a way that makes you uncomfortable."
On the LGBT+. Children as young as 3 can pick up on arbitrary norms. You've probably heard about children becoming upset because they got something in the "wrong" color.
I agree with almost all you said, except letting them make their own medical decisions. No kid wants to go see a doctor or dentist, no matter how badly they need one.
Then mandate seeing a doctor every x months, and make going to the doctor free. When kids get sick then they'll have to go to the doctor, it's human nature to feel better.
Although, that point was supposed to suggest letting children made their own medical decisions about abortion, birth control, hormone replacement therapy, hormone blockers, and other stuff like that which shouldn't always be the parents business and can make it more dangerous if a parent is involved.
Why wouldn't a teenager want to go to a doctor, besides maybe not wanting to get shots I guess. If there's that big of a problem with going to the doctor then the doctor might be making the kid feel uncomfortable. Find a doctor that the kid really likes, or tell your kid to stand up to a doctor.
I guess I should have phrased it more like "children should be able to consent to medical treatment without requiring consent from parents".
Edit: I wanted to further clarify. When we give children the right to choose their own haircut, that doesn't mean that a child must find their own transportation to a hair cutting shop and find the money to get their own haircuts, it means being empowered to be able to choose what they want, and then later at a higher age find their own money etc. I think it should be obvious that 3 yr olds shouldn't be able to cut their own hair or go to the doctor by themselves.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:11:33 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Then mandate seeing a doctor every x months, and make going to the doctor free.
I agree with everything else, but this not so much. Taking the power over a child away from an individual/individuals and giving it to some higher power (state, society, etc.) isn't fixing the problem. To the child, it doesn't matter who's choosing what they do, just that they have some agency stripped from them.
I think I agree with you too. It's better if the child decides on their own. I was trying to come up with a solution to a child not wanting to go to a doctor, but maybe there's no need for one. I'm not sure about that situation a hundred percent honestly.
Edit: spelling
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:43:12 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah. There's always the give and take between, "the child should learn to be responsible for itself and shouldn't be lorded over," and "the child will surely want god teeth in the future."
The way I see it, there are maybe two ways to go about it. First is just to let the kid feel like shit until it wants to go to the doctor. The second is to get rid of the idea of rights, and realize that sometimes you have to teach people things in a way that they don't really like. A tough love approach. Just make them go to the doctor for their wellbeing.
I don't know which one is right, though. Luckily, I don't have kids.
Giving up the idea of rights doesn't sound like a very good option. Maybe being forced to go to a doctor is one of the reasons that children sometimes don't want to go.
Maybe it could be something like...
<5 yrs, take them without consent
5-9, let them tell you when they're sick and let you decide to take them or not depending on if it's a cold or something more serious
9-13ish, Let them go for any excuse.
14+, they decide when to go.
I definitely think that people should have the right to make their own medical decisions by the time they're 13. If they don't want to go to a doctor, then again, there's a specific reason. That reason should be talked about, but they still shouldn't be forced.
The only situation I see where it's okay to make a kid go to a doctor that they don't want to go to is if they're very sick and refuse to go otherwise.
I don't see any reason why a tough love approach should ever be needed. It provides nothing but resentment and hatred. Let me know if you think there's any way it can work for the majority of people.
Also, please be careful about calling people "it". Children are still people.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:18:58 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Giving up the idea of rights doesn't sound like a very good option
<5 yrs, take them without consent
This seems to be what you're doing. You want to void freedom of self-determination for people under five. I really see no point in this morality creation. It's all arbitrary to everyone except the one creating it.
Why five?
Well, because younger than that they aren't smart enough.
What is smart enough?
Well, etc.
I personally think it's a waste of time to play these games. But in your capacity as a parent, hold yourself to whatever standard you choose, you feel Me?
I don't see any reason why a tough love approach should ever be needed. It provides nothing but resentment and hatred.
True. Although some adversity is needed, I think. I can't handle it when parent give their children everything without making them learn that sometimes patience is needed, and sometimes you have to struggle to get what you want, and sometimes you just can't have things, etc. Maybe it causes resentment, but maybe that's good. Maybe kids need to resent their parents a little, so that when they're able they have enough reason to assert themselves against the will of their parents. But personally, I don't really resent anyone or anything. I'm glad to have had some hardship because it makes Me who I am.
Also, please be careful about calling people "it". Children are still people.
No. I try not to gender people. It doesn't un-person someone, it's just using an agendered pronoun.
So I'll reply in faux snarkiness, "Be careful about calling people "he/she". Its are still people."
I assumed that that's the age that children would be able to communicate.
They is a perfectly fine gender inclusive pronoun...
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:40:04 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It is a singular object, though. They is a plural subject. I needed a singular object in that situation. I could have more appropriately used them, but I chose it instead.
They is perfectly fine as a gender inclusive pronoun. Who says that the word they is plural? Even the OED affirms that they is fine to use in both singular and plural. It's also the pronoun that many people who aren't at one of the two ends of the gender binary use. I can see how it would be weird to refer to singular objects like tables as they, but they're objects, not people.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:39:18 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The problem with they isn't just that it's plural, but more that it's a subject. "It"'s nice because "it" is both object and subject.
Having yearly or bi-yearly vaccinations and checkups could do a lot to make everyone a lot more safe and help spot conditions that could be treated early.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:42:31 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not talking about the usefulness of having kids go to the doctor. I thought that was obvious.
Taking the power over a child away from an individual/individuals and giving it to some higher power (state, society, etc.) isn't fixing the problem.
To the child, it doesn't matter who's choosing what they do, just that they have some agency stripped from them.
My point is that moving the ruler/owner of a child from being parents to being the government/society doesn't make the child any freer.
OdenDD ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:27:27 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Christ this fucking post
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:34:43 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You're joking? You think NOT buying your kid a cell phone for $80/month is disempowering/opressive? I'm going to guess you're still in high school. Some parental authority is necessary to prevent your kids from turning into total shits.
By the no phone policy I meant things like "no phones allowed in school or suspension" and stuff like that. Sometimes people get important phone calls from their families and need to tell them something.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:57:58 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, I see what you mean. Like schools being too authoritarian. I thought you meant parents taking kids phones away, or, I inferred, refusing to pay for their cell phone plans.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:12:31 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
not totally related, but I think you might like this article
I've been teaching high school art for 19 years and I still can't get used to people "asking" to go to the bathroom. I just tell them to take the pass and go if you need to go, just tell me, in case you might miss something critical.
USA: Also we are fighting a war for corporate interests. Go and die for it like a true patriot. But you're still definitely too young to buy alcohol or make other decisions regarding yourself.
pat8u3 ยท 878 points ยท Posted at 09:19:11 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
inb4 some solider saying they can drink alcohol while deployed, like it makes it any better
[deleted] ยท 697 points ยท Posted at 12:54:31 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Can you find a source for when in recent memory the US has held people's passports and worked them to death in 100+ degree (34 Celsius) weather to build a soccer stadium? Hell, if nothing else at least there are places in the US that aren't 110 degrees everyday. If you think chilling in Denver where you can smoke a bowl, be gay, and not be sentenced to prison for 15 years for writing a poem criticizing the government is about the same as what life in Qatar is like, feel free to ignore me. I'm no US apologist who tries to brush our problems under the rug by saying "yeah, but this place is worse," but denying that other places are in fact worse is simply foolish.
There were also several cases of western women being brought over to work in the hotels. Those women would then sometimes be raped. Then imprisoned when they reported it because it was sex outside of marriage. Not a bastion of freedom by any stretch of the imagination.
So, America had shitty human rights 100 years ago. Fair enough, I wouldn't suggest you get a time machine and go there either. In the year 2017, though, America is not on the same level as Qatar because of the generations that came before us and fought for our civil rights. America is far from perfect. We still have a long way to go and more progress to make, but we have at least made it past the slavery, crime to be gay, and persecution of free speech phase of our history, which cannot be said for Qatar.
Qatar is, for instance, the one and only safe haven for political activists fighting for democracy in the rest of the Persian gulf region. The world is not so simple.
Well I didn't say that though. I said a couple of the complaints: so let's see: being overly extreme with jail sentencing. Or maybe it funding terrorist groups. Or maybe your complaint with Qatar is it having huge income inequality. But to be fair, the US does have [forced labor] through exploiting undocumented workers and also through prisoners.
What I'm trying to say is, the USA has many of the same problems Qatar does, without even publicly acknowledging them.
But that doesn't mean Qatar doesn't suck. It does. But so does the USA.
Also I can't believe I'm arguing with someone who posts in r/the_donald and CringeAnarchy. Fuck you, rightist piece of shit.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:48:14 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Your post was automatically removed because it contains a call to violence so egregious, the reddit admins will not allow it. Perhaps you meant 'Debate the Fash' or 'Stand passively by while fascists commit actual acts of violence against racial and gender minorities'
There was 4 17 year olds on my basic platoon. And you can join the reserves at 16 with parental approval. Not sure where you got the 'have to be 18' thing
You know what, you're totally right cause my brother did the black bear program which counts for his basic. I was generalizing the age most people join full time. My bad for not being clear bud.
Oh don't worry about it brother, if I came off cross it's cause I just pulled my hungover ass out of bed. You are right that most people join at 18, actually a bit older I was a young one at 20 in basic even with the 17 year olds
God I know how you feel I was dying this morning. Thanks for your service boss, my brother goes to Kingston on the 8th little nervous but really proud.
kent_eh ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:09:41 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
in Quebec where you have to be 18 to drink.
18 is also the drinking age in Manitoba. (Ask any University of North Dakota student)
19 years of age inย BC,ย New Brunswick, Newfoundland and Labrador,ย Northwest Territories,ย Nova Scotia,ย Nunavut,ย Ontario, PEI,ย Saskatchewan,ย andย Yukon
18 years of age inย Alberta,ย Manitoba, andย Quebec.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:03:24 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Your post was removed because it contained a slur. If you wish to have your post reinstated, please edit it to remove the slur, and then report this comment (it will not be automatically approved when changed). If you want to know why you can't use slurs on LSC, please read this. If you don't know which word was a slur, you should have a message from me in your inbox with the word contained.
.....are you being serious? Being a corporate slave in America working some office job is a little bit different than being a literal manual labor slave in fucking Qatar.
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Pretty sure soldiers under 21 still can't drink and MPs or whatever they're called have to make sure they don't drink while they are out killing folks.
No, the military does not restrict drinking based on age over eighteen unless there is a state or national law setting that age to a higher number. Generally, the determination for the age is set by the installation commander, and at overseas military installations that might mean it follows the UCMJ's established age limit of eighteen while the service member remains on said installation. State law establishes the age of legal alcohol consumption to be at twenty one years old due to the effects of the National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984 because that act reduces or removes federal funding from states if the states have a legal drinking age lower than twenty one. Military installation commanders in the United States can set tat age to eighteen for service members while they are on the installation if they wish (though that normally does not happen).
Military installation commanders in the United States can set tat age to eighteen for service members while they are on the installation if they wish (though that normally does not happen).
I've never seen it happen since most don't live on base and it creates massive conflicts when they leave base drunk or in possession of alcohol.
There are funny base rules such as E1-E3 can only buy a 6 pack.
I brought a pack of corona onto base one time and was told at the gate that I wasn't allowed to bring "foreign beer" onto base. Where they also sold corona and other foreign beers at the exchange.
They were probably using "foreign" as "not bought here." I'm assuming if it was bought at the package store, and you could prove it, you could bring it back on base.
no, quite literately "foreign" as in not American. I was specifically told, "you can bring in some budweiser, or coors, or anything like that. it has to be domestic"
yea pretty ridiculous. Luckily, I was only living on base for a couple of weeks when I first reported, until I found an apartment. I honestly thought the guy was joking at first, but he told me he was serious. Fortunately, he didn't enforce it though, he just told me to keep it in mind for next time. The funny thing is even the bar on base sold tons of foreign beers.
Almost sounds like he was making shit up. MPs aren't really that different from cops. They just want to feel like they have power, and telling you you were wrong, but "giving you a break" is the exact kind of power tripping cops do.
I was stationed in South Korea in '99 and USFK policy set the drinking age for service members at 19 then. In early '05 (near the time I became woke) I'd just returned from a pretty intense 13 month tour in Iraq. My good friend at the time had been through a lot during our tour, and at 20 years old, was a few years younger than I. Trying to get this kid into a bar to share some drinks was fucking impossible. We kept getting carded and sent away from every establishment at the door. I remember how pissed off I was at the situation, but now I think about how he's an FBI agent now and I don't feel so bothered any more.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:32:52 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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Reference? I searched but couldn't find the exact incident. There was one where a drunk American shot two British tourists but you mention running them over with a car.
Ah, the affluenza defese... I read a recent case like that where the defense used that excuse... It's amazing. If anything, the poor should get to use such an excuse that I didn't have enough to eat so I stole.
While Ethan Couch is another example, the one I was referencing was the Florida jewelry/whatever heir LeVin, source. Apparently not drunk, but the rest is the same. Apparently it was street racing. It was 7 years ago, hopefully you can cut me slack on the details :)
Murdering while being sober doesn't make it any less bad. On the surface it seems like we are a country of laws as opposed to the backward Asian or Middle Eastern countries where the rich can do whatever they want with impunity, but we aren't much different.
Exactly. There are two justice systems. The one where poor people are thrown in jail for years for possessing marijuana, fairly universally deemed safer than cigarettes and alcohol. And the other one where rich people like OJ and this LeVin guy can actually kill people without ever seeing the inside of a prison cell.
Ph_Dank ยท 52 points ยท Posted at 13:26:29 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
All this shit happens because christians fucking want to control everything.
No it's because of Anslinger, William Randolph Hurst, and the DuPont family wanted nylon.
It's the same reason aspartame is used in diet soda instead of cyclamate.
Pure capitalism babee, don't adapt to a market, use your weight to make the next big thing illegal.
Ph_Dank ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 15:40:43 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Funny how all the people that support free-market usually want the most anti-competition regulations.
kent_eh ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 16:11:38 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Funny how all the people that support free-market usually want the most anti-competition regulations.
See also: network neutrality.
Criptid ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 18:46:54 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because the free market inevitably devolves into the least free market ever due to greed.
yeos_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:16:24 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
ELI5 on aspartame and cyclamate?
I think you can blame capitalism for all the reasons for anti-cannabis legislation. Locking up black people and protesters creates segregation and limits folks utilizing their free speech. The church looks down on it because smoking detracts from church attendence which means a smaller tithing.
Yup. And the Christians joined in and gave massive support to banning it and to this day to keeping it banned because they fucking want to control everything.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:34:01 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I got caught smoking weed. Life is fine, no record. A lot of states had 1st time offenders acts. Michigan did. 1 year probation and 40 hours community service. Possession of marijuana. No record.
Phasko ยท 187 points ยท Posted at 10:26:52 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And please do drive a car. Because cars aren't dangerous, and help AMERICA to have a STRONG ECONOMY.
[deleted] ยท 166 points ยท Posted at 11:38:30 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But if you buy a car, make sure it's an AMERICAN faulty, mess of a machine with an intentionally short lifespan. That way you'll have to KEEP buying American over and over. Like a PATRIOT.
It's been a few years since that episode first came out, I think it's ok.
Did you also know that Snape killed Dumbledore? And Vader was Luke's father all along? And Zoe Barnes was pushed onto her death by subway train by Underwood?
Now if I told you spoilers from the current season, I could get you being mad at that. But I haven't and he hasn't, so chill, dawg.
Gkkiux ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:20:31 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not sure why you got downvoted - I only saw the episode last week
Never understood the hate of America on this subreddit. America is one of the few counties where some amount of power lies with the people. Go vote and change the things you don't like.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:54:49 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How do you use your power to change things in America? Can I have a few examples?
I've cast votes for plenty of constituents that support my interests. My vote has gone towards installing bike lanes and paths all over my city, raising gas taxes, and then the allocation of that gas tax to maintain the state of our road systems.
You might want to read over this list of US atrocities we have linked in the sidebar then. The US is easily the most evil empire in world history.
Go vote and change the things you don't like.
"Voting" to improve your lot under capitalism is about as likely as lifting yourself up by the bootstraps. We don't support bourgeois democracy(democracy for the rich) here. If you persist in this liberalism, you'll risk a ban.
So what then do you suggest, if not the vote? Falling to melancholic cynicism seems even less likely to accomplish anything. Ban me if you must, but then you'd ostracize someone who's at least wiling to question the status quo and risk losing a potential convert. That seems even less productive than the other two things.
Arming up, forming workers organizations, and seizing and socializing education infrastructure, taking it from the state and private administrators who currently treat education like a commodity / business where students are the consumers.
And secondly, if you think that things like public education are going to stick around in mixed/welfare state economies like the nordic countries, the UK, or Germany, you're wrong. Watch this video by the marxist student federation of sweden that shows that social services provided by the capitalist state are currently being eliminated.
Interesting. I feel this is how things will progress naturally, given the phasing out of traditional blue collar jobs, combined with rising population levels.
Capitalism only functions as long as the supply and demand are balanced properly, and most if not all the political policy n effect now exist to keep that concert running smoothly.
Capitalists aren't going to give up their power over society without a fight. Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.
Vote and choose between a millionaire corrupt gangster lady who will steal from you with a smile on her face, and a billionaire corrupt arrogant angry man who will steal from you without a smile on his face?
PS: I voted for a third person. I don't see much of a change.
I did vote for a popular guy in primaries but they Democ-rats didn't let him win. I did tell people about he two evils and recommend that they don't vote of either of the two evils, but people are too brainwashed to try a third party which might bring some real change. I do realize that a President alone can't do a whole lot, the House and Senate are important, and so are the local elections but few people even notice the local elections.
I voted Bernie as well. The fact that a socialist got as far as he did demonstrates change is happening. I'm not defending either party, or politicans in general. All I'm saying is that short of a militant uprising, voting is all we have. Personally I'll go for uprising, but again I'm in the minority for now and uprising require the majority.
Attempting to overthrow the US government is seditious conspiracy... They may not choose to prosecute the rich criminals like Clintons but they sure will come after people like you and me (remember Kristian Saucier, the Navy sailor, who ended up in trouble for taking pictures of an aircraft carrier? He tried to point to Clinton's case and they didn't give a sh*t, it was as clear an FU as there can be, the law doesn't apply to the rich and the powerful).
"If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both."
I think an uprising doesn't require a majority, it seems like a critical mass of active protesters can get the tide turned.
PS: I think most people ain't got time to be furious, they are too busy amusing themselves to death, working hard to buy the next shiny toy or to spend the money at a game they love, making the rich richer...
Isn't the minimum enlistment age 17? Old enough to kill but not old enough to drink or vote. They love the country enough to die for it, and can be trusted to wield arms in the name of democracy but can't be trusted to wield a vote in the name of democracy.
Tobix55 ยท 43 points ยท Posted at 13:28:58 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, 17 year olds shouldnt vote, but neither should they fight imo
Here in Britain there is a strong movement to enfranchise 16 and 17 year olds, which I support.
At that age you're able to legally marry, have sex, pay taxes, join the military, you can drink even before that so surely you should be able to vote.
The voice of the next generation still in education should be heard, it would stimulate political engagement among the youth which is so much lacking and encourage better representation of all British citizens.
[deleted] ยท 46 points ยท Posted at 14:39:02 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You just dont know enough about politics yourself to see that the kids are full of bs. They dont know shit. There are a lot of opinionated kids, but Ive never met one who was actually knowledgeable about politics.
Yeah I was voting in my country and realised how little I knew about politics and how many people must must be like that.. it's kind of scary especially when you see politicians banking on that refugee hate. I mean don't get me wrong there are issues with how it's handled but people telling refugees to fuck off and basically nothing else just makes it seem like refugees must be the reason most of the countries flaws.
Tobix55 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:56:02 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
At 16 some are mature enough to vote, but others are not. I'd also say that for peoply my age(19) tho
Doesn't matter, you don't get to gatekeep the enfranchisement from others simply because you disagree with their maturity or views,
It's about the principle of their right to be heard.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:36:18 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'd also say your point is doubly relevant in the states. "No taxation without representation" is a hard sell when you get your first job 2 years before you get to vote. Granted, you could be making little enough that you pay no taxes in theory, but they still withhold.
In the UK we use PEGI ratings (edit: for video games), which are 7, 12, 16 and 18. And you can join the military at 16, although the youngest UK soldiers in Afghanistan have been 17 as far as I'm aware. I should point out that they aren't MEANT to be there, we aren't supposed to send anyone off to kill people until they are 18. At 16 and 17 we are merely training them to kill people.
Well, you shouldn't have done that. You had a choice, you know.
Oh, you wanted a solution? Lol, entitled commie millennial liberals. You don't know what you're talking about. Venezuela.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:54:18 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:09:46 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I joined when I was 17, got the military to pay for my university and I'll retire with a pension when I'm 37 and take the skills I learned to the private sector. But yeah you're right, we're all uneducated knuckle draggers.
[deleted] ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 13:29:16 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 13:35:45 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't and I haven't. Police don't kill people to support their family but killing people sometimes happens. Same thing in the military. I agree with the underlying thought though, that the economy should be in better shape so that poor people aren't forced to look at the Marines or Army as the only option for an honest paycheck and good benefits.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:39:13 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:00:05 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What an ignorant view you hold. By that logic I can say that by paying taxes and voting you support killing on the frontlines.
I believe you can actually sign up at 15 years, 9 months. The reason is that by the time you're required to do anything army related, you'll have turned 16.
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 13:12:13 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
By that standard the Canadian military should let you sign at 14.
Makes it disturbing when you hear it advertised on the radio or TV with those "I did badly in school and didn't know where to go, but the army helped me find my way!!" type stories.
People mature at different rates but I was a kid at 16. The idea that I could have signed up and been to war is wild.
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 13:08:01 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Worth it to retire with a pension at 36 years old. And you're still young enough to do something else with your life, all with a steady drip of money from the pension.
Hmm that does sound quite nice. But I guess if you have to go to actual war zones... hmm
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:25:15 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's plenty to do in the military besides frontline combat. You will spend time away from home but even while deployed you're still safer than a lot of other professions out there.
kent_eh ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:24:09 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's plenty to do in the military besides frontline combat.
Not that a solider gets any choice over where they get sent.
"But I'm an accounting clerk"
"Yes, you are now transferred to the paymaster's office in Kandahar. Try not to catch any IED shrapnel when you go out for coffee."
Jesus Christ do you people not realize that only 20%-30% of jobs in the military put you in the line of fire. Do you really think you are gonna get shot if you are flying a drone in the Arizona desert? Or when you are giving X-rays in a hospital?
Jesus Christ not everyone is a fucking American and spends their days musing about arms jobs. I'm a scientist in industry. Try to be less arrogant, geeez
J-Navy ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:02:18 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You can join the service at 17 with parent/guardian signature.
Source: am in military.
jc731 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:02:19 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
IIRC-R means you need somebody over 18 accompanying you. Nc17 is no-one under 18 is allowed in theater.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:07:27 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's actually not illegal to buy M-rated games in the United States (California MIGHT have passed a state law a while ago, can't recall). The ESRB rates the games and companies like Game Stop make it their policy to adhere to the ESRB ratings.
[deleted] ยท 57 points ยท Posted at 10:57:28 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, its not like a cops gonna bring a breathalizer to my house in the US and check my kids for alchohol, unless its obvious that im getting them shitfaced and their doctors reports are reflecting that, or theyre going in public clearly strung out.
Therefore you trust that a parent would be responsible
And here is where we humans deviate from reality
[deleted] ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 12:31:51 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm pretty sure that would still violate some child protection laws and at the very least get the family in question under supervision. It's just that there's no outright ban and it's left to the judgement of the parents. Usually that just means that parents can let their children have a sip of beer to let them know that it tastes awful.
Im not a cleric or anything, but i do know that many churches communions involve giving (depending on the denomination) either teenagers or children of any age alchohol (typically in EXTREMELY low amounts. Like "you get more buzzed using hand sanitizer to clean your hands" amounts), some jewish sects (sorry, dont know how judaism works completely) will give children wine, etc.
To be fair, I wouldn't want impresssionable 16-year olds thinking that FSOG tells you anything good or sensible about how to have sex or have a relationship.
Kiroen ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 09:45:58 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And impressionable 18-year olds? The problem isn't that this art exists and it's accessible, the problem is that healthy relationships and sex are barely mentioned in education, which makes it harder for people to have any good point of reference.
True. Only after dipping my toe into the subject human sexuality through college did I realize what a joke sex education is in the school system. It completely neglects addressing anything that isn't heterosexual, and only actually covers basic anatomy.
Abstinenceโข is the only true option until after you're married! And don't even think about trying to masturbate, you'll get hairy palms and go blind and you'll never be able to have a fulfilling relationship because you'll have too many different images in your head!
Impressionable 18-year olds are a problem too, but there's no rating higher than 18 except for R18, and you can't mark a film R18 for "contains scenes of non-consensual abuse and misogyny." (Also, 18 year olds are marginally more likely to know better, even though yes, the education situation is terrible)
TRBRY ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:28:36 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair again, you need to have lived a sheltered life to not come upon far worse teachings of sex in this day and age than said movie/book.
Its also relationships, and its portraying them in a positive way, wheras other popular media that show actual abusive sociopathic relationships like IASIP are doing it in a "yall see how fucked up this is, its hilarious" way.
TRBRY ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:12:54 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Are you actually saying that fifty shades is the sole bad influence in fiction? Or am I reading this wrongly, after all I'm not a native English speaker.
No, im more saying that as far as bad influences go, a extremely mainstream and widely accepted piece of media portraying an extremely abusive and manipulative relationship as something beautiful to strive for is probably towards the top of the list, wheras most other media portraying bad relationships stops at "okay, this persons actually a douchebag/creepy", not "okay, this person is literally human garbage, this is the kind of relationship that gives someone long-term PTSD"
TRBRY ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:28:04 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You ever heard of pornhub, xhamster and so on? That's what I mean when I say sheltered, a not so great movie is no more than a blink compared to everything else that's available to todays impressionables.
Okay but see, those are objectively porn. Who says "i watch porn for the plot".
Im not saying "this is bad because sex is evil". Im saying its bad because when you turn on a porno, you know youre gonna be watching a poorly scripted thing thats not representative of the real world at all. Worst case, you develop misconceptions about sex. When you watch a romance movie depicting an abusive relationship as romance, even if you can rationally think "thats a little off", you still end up getting things from it.
TRBRY ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:01:28 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I hope no one is so insulated that they derive how to treat a sexual relationship based on one book/move. There are plenty of fiction that while fantasy is not as bad as 'fifty'.
Don't get me wrong I do get that it shows a bad way to utilize BDSM in ones sexual awakening but there are plenty of other sources on the net that can remedy much of the harm this piece of fiction did.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:16:13 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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GlobTwo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:42:27 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I might be wrong but it seems as if you've misread "UK" in that comment.
Over421 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:31:55 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
have you heard "gone mad" by blay vision and jme? that's like the entire point of the track
Just because you can do something doesn't mean you're y should do it, but just because a nation worries for its youth, doesn't mean they don't care, they probably just care a little too much
Utah: "No! that's dangerous and will stray you from the light of god!"
Fucking religions
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:58:00 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ppl in UK like shades of grey
Yufery ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:06:00 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ahh, but you see, consistency of government policies is strictly against capitalism. We must please our lord and savior Adam Smith first and foremost somehow!
From what I have heard dishing out student loan with high interest is a legit bussisness in the USA.
You can hate communism all you want but at least they have free education.
[deleted] ยท 303 points ยท Posted at 08:02:24 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I wouldn't say enslave but if you want to get elected with emotional appeal and focus on identity politics then making sure your electorate won't examine the plausibility of your claims is probably a good long term investment.
If your product isn't compelling enough to inspire long lasting fanaticism in the electorate, then eroding their education so they don't know how to examine an argument or question your authority works just as well.
And your degree is in what? My sister has a BS in Psychology from a private school and a law degree from a major school. She is the VP of HR for a small company "Less than 10k employees" and her debt is paid off "$800" a month. She is single and has raised a child through the entire process. Her first job after the law degree, filing paperwork for $11.00 an hour. If you haven paid you debt, I don't see the fault anywhere but in you. You will be hard pressed to make me see it any other way.
Edit: She is 38 and her salary is 100k yearly.
First of all, This is your "sister's" story, so you clearly don't have an example of student loan debt in your own life or you would have used it.
Second. She is 11 years older than me. And has a gradauate degree. I am 2 years into loan repayment, with a BA in Communication Studies.
I have not found a job that pays more than bartending. My first jobs out of college were entry level sales and some were door to door. Spare me the BS about how she started @11 an hour (which is damn good what, 15 years ago?)
Third. Spare me the "raised child thru this entire process" BS. No one asked her to have a child, its her decision. Tax breaks are amazing for a single mother.
Fourth. I pay $900 a month and make ~$30k (it's not a flat rate)
Finally, "100k annually" Lol I'll never make that and pay this shit off before I'm 38.
Bold of you to make this personal, when it's not your own personal experience, AND I was merely referring to the fact that being in $80k in debt is overbearing. So please, kindly fuck off.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:41:02 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So the issue is wording then? Bc I said "enslaved"?
How about "indentured servitude"?
Bc I will not buy a house until this is all paid off, I live on my own now, but want my own home. I cannot do so unless I get a super high paying job and can get a mortgage from a bank that is cool with me having so much outstanding debt.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:58:20 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well the conundrum is, I don't want more debt. I am renting from a good friend so I'm in a good sport currently and I am in no rush.
If I reallllyy wanted to, I could buy a $100k house that needed some work. However, when I do plan on buying a house I want to put a huge down payment down so I'm not stuck with another $900 a month expense.
I know, it doesn't make sense. But I don't wanna just buy one just to buy one. I wanna save up and buy one and have the lowest mortgage possible. Also, my credit will go up once I don't have as much debt on the books, so I'll get a better rate
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:10:04 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree 100%. I think we are in the same boat here. It sucks, but I signed on the dotted line and made my decision, now I just gotta pay it back
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 05:19:59 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why would you spend $80k on a communications degree? At some point in your college career, you must have realized there isn't much for a comm sci graduate. Honestly, you being "enslaved" is your own fucking fault. You deserve everything.
I graduated with $20k in debt with a BSEE. I made my rent with on campus jobs and internships. I even worked internships that weren't in my field. I even did an accounting and managerial internship (which really helped later on).
Plus, there are tons of managerial training programs. My senior year of college (6 years ago when the economy was way worse), I got two job offers for these programs on a fucking flight from Reno to Las Vegas. The company (in my case, the Cosmo Hotel and the MGM) pays for your MBA of Masters in Hotel Management and you work under a manager. When you graduate, you have a job with the company. My fiancee's coworker was a drafter whose principle architect sent him to grad school on the condition he works for him for a certain amount of time. Its how I got my Masters. My company paid me to go back and get my masters in Fields.
Sorry for the long rant but seriously. Its your own fault for not getting a higher paying job post college, building your resume in college, getting a shitty degree and going that much into debt.
Beuneri ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:43:50 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Everything is easy to predict in hindsight.
Most people going to university are way way WAY too young to make educated decisions about their life.
Everyone is pressured to go to university because to most people it seems it's the only way not to get left behind.
You probably don't even care about the education that much, you just know that the reference group you're in is going in, and that university education is always better than not having one, your parents tell you how they want you to educate yourself and you REALLY don't know better.
Yeah, you can't place the whole blame on the system, but that really a heavily grey area. Why is having sex with underage people illegal despite them giving consent? You got it, it's because general populace has deemed them unable to make educated decisions because they are too young.
Yes it's hard to understand what's exactly going on at that age. I knew I needed to go to college, I just didn't know just about anything else.
I wish I made a more informed decision at the time, or did more research at the time. A HS class about college would have been extremely helpful tho, the costs, how loans work, how credits work etc etc
Thats why Tsarist Russia, Cuba, China, Vietnam, Cambodia, Venezuela, Ethiopia, etc, etc were such highly educated populaces at the time of their plunge into communism? Hint: they werent.
kent_eh ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:27:45 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Its easier to enslave the less educated,
I remember a high profile American just a few months ago loudly proclaiming "I love the poorly educated".
Free education does not serve the interest of politicians. A majority of conservatives vote Republican for one or two issues, and the chief one is abortion, laws on which have minimal to no effect on abortion rate, which is really hilariously ironic. We have voters literally voting based on one issue which has zero relevance. Even worse, conservative politicians are anti-birth control and anti-sex education, even while birth control and sex education are two very proven ways to reduce abortion rate. It would be hilarious if it weren't so sad. If people were educated about this, there wouldn't be a major dividing issue for the conservatives to stand on.
kent_eh ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 16:30:02 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
. Even worse, conservative politicians are anti-birth control and anti-sex education, even while birth control and sex education are two very proven ways to reduce abortion rate.
"But if we don't tell teenagers about sex, then they won't discover that it exists and they'll never have sex before we authorize them to...."
And even though we will not be educating them about sex, fertilization, and the processes that occur while a fetus develops, in no way will this hamper their ability to recognize that while pregnant they shouldn't smoke, drink 2-liters of Mountain Dew daily, drink alcohol, eat deli meat, etc. while pregnant.
[deleted] ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 08:42:51 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 09:24:30 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Same in Austria, if you're doing well you can also apply for a scholarship (as in, you receive money and still don't have to pay for university). Textbooks and so on also seem to be cheaper here than in the US.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 11:16:38 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Do you guys use the same textbooks? Because I'm pretty sure companies like Pearson run a racket in the US, with schools enforcing their web programs (which are over priced and underwhelming)
I checked my books and I have quite a few Pearson books, but they all clearly state "International Edition: Not for sale in the USA or Canada". We don't have any of their web programs.
[deleted] ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 12:03:52 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In Czechia, it is common that the professors write their own textbooks specifically tailored for the class they teach. They are sold by the university book store for around $10.
I have also studied abroad in Sweden and Austria and have never used any of those infamous web elearning systems.
FloZone ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:23:00 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The influence from publishing houses is probably not as bad, but they try to force themself into the university system of course. As for Germany there was a case with the VG Wort... don't ask me what they do in detail, but they manage copyrights and because universities couldn't get a deal (they did in the last moment) with them, tutors wouldn't have been able to give out digital copies for example.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 10:51:11 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Getting money for studying is normal in Germany, for anyone who can't afford it (you have to pay it back later). And I didn't have to buy a single textbook for my bachelor.
Here in Italy we have public and private universities. You have to pay for public ones but the tax is proportional to your income. If you have no or low income, it's free. The most expensive public university, which is the Polytechnic University of Milan, costs about 3000 โฌ/year if you have very high income. Private universities like Bocconi cost a lot more but there's easy access to scolarships if you are good enough.
FloZone ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 12:16:37 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well in germany we aren't communists and have free universitys
We also have different healthcare. Yet introduced by Bismarck as means to appease the population and take away opportunity from the left. I'm not saying its bad, but giving out cheap education and healthcare is not necessarily a leftist measure, can be quite the opposite, but it seems the USA especially have a hard time seeing such compromises.
In the US, giving free healthcare or education means you're a bloody communist, Marxist. Even the most leftist mainstream politicians did not talk about giving these basic services for free, only Bernie did, and the whole machinery fought to make him look "unelectable" because he is such an "extremist" and not a realist. Perhaps one good thing is that more people are now talking about single payer healthcare here now.
Spain - Free public universities. Then deoending on the provate one thst you like you can end up paying +1500 euro /month so I'd say that 50 k debt looks legit if you are forced to a private one :)
GA45 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 12:25:02 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In Scotland we get up to 5 years of uni or college funded which is enough to complete a degree and masters if you don't have to repeat.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:11:18 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, and they'll take out a lot more when you start giving out loans at below inflation interest rates. Get your hands out of poor peoples pockets. This tankie routine you've got isn't fooling anyone. You love the system because all it does is take from the poor and gives to upper middle class liberal arts majors. You just want more. That's why all the policies that you people want do nothing to help poor people. You have no clue what being poor is like but you like to be hip and identify with poverty that you've never experienced. You've convinced yourself that because you can't afford a trip to Fiji every year you're just like people on food stamps. You're a grifter, nothing more.
Assuming someone else's argument for them is not only very rude, but it's also ignorant. You're also taking this to ad hominem for some reason. Take your anger out on someone else.
Wealthy people do not take out 4.5+% Stafford student loans. They usually have adequate credit and assets to secure better interest rates since they likely don't have the liquid cash available to pay for 4 years of tuition.
1% is too low of a number (notice how I'm not the guy who proposed it), but are you actually suggesting that offering lower interest rates is going to hurt the poor? As it stands, financing higher education costs like 25% higher than the already outrageous sticker price of what you're buying.
Students should not be a profit center outside of private institutions. Let Harvard and Duke do what they want, but charging interest rates at their current levels on StateU loans is irresponsible.
Your post was removed because it contained a slur. If you wish to have your post reinstated, please edit it to remove the slur, and then report this comment (it will not be automatically approved when changed). If you want to know why you can't use slurs on LSC, please read this. If you don't know which word was a slur, you should have a message from me in your inbox with the word contained.
wldd5 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:45:57 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Haha I would much rather not be able to call our leader a name and have free health care and education than be here in my current situation. It's not even comparable. "Freedom" of speech is nowhere near as important as health care or education.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 15:25:18 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:28:54 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 15:33:04 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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wldd5 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:36:19 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Neil DeGrasse Tyson is the bestest scientist ever because he's famous!!!
Sure buddy, that's who I mean. How's Cubas space program? And research facilities? And government funding of both acedemic and hospitalized medical research? Oh that's right...
wldd5 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:42:09 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Famous equals better :)
They should waste their money on going to space instead of curing mother to child HIV transmission
Wow. Go look up our funding levels for both compared to Cuba. You lack intellectual merit on all levels. I've never argued about famous versus better. We give substantially more in funding and produce substantially more. In all sciences. Not compared to a lot of countries, but certainly Cuba.
Go back to your le depression and Im failing school posts (makes sense given your content in comments.)
wldd5 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:56:47 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Huh it's almost like the US is bigger or something.
Many European countries offer better education in certain scientific fields and are much smaller than the US. Size doesn't have much to do with it. Just concede your point was invalid and you can move on.
wldd5 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:04:36 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Huh it's like those countries are richer and not under an embargo
Huh it's like your citing reasons why I'm correct now.
(only the US has a partial embargo against Cuba, they're free to sell to the rest of the world. It's almost like communism fails at leading to prosperity).
wldd5 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:32:33 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Of course it is, as it should be. It's up to the individual to take on those loans. Just like anotjer other loan. Why are you against the businesses? It's not their fault people can't think for themselves.
What? If you can't afford college and can't get scholarships to go then absolutely you shouldn't be there. Quit with your primary schooling equivalency strawman. Higher education is fundamentaly different. Source: couldn't afford college alone so worked my ass off to get scholarship.
Education is a right, and it doesn't stop being a right after you turn 18. Higher education is only "totally different" because we make it that way. It isn't "totally different" in Scandinavian countries or even in mainland European countries where it's at least priced semi-sensibly.
Your bootstrapping bullshit philosophy in regards to education is an absurdity in the developed world.
Exactly. And we are able to say that because of our system, we have a plethora of prestigious universities. Whereas European countries may have one or two notable prestigious universities per country, we have many.
Your bootstrapping bullshit philosophy in regards to education is an absurdity
No, absurdity is a $100000 doctoral degree in something like women's studies, which teaches no real skills, regardless of whether its paid by the state or the individual.
We are a country of 320 million people, so I would hope that we have more than one or two prestigious universities. The problem is that our education system is behind a gigantic paywall, regardless of what it is you're studying. Don't try to wriggle out of admitting this by attacking women's studies. That's pathetic and an obvious diversion from what we were discussing.
No its not a diversion. It's an example of money poorly spent. Higher education is and always should be a means of gaining more specific skillsets. Libraries are not behind pay walls. Culture (for the most part) is not behind a paywall. Knowledge is everywhere. Ideas are everywhere. We do not need universities for someone to be exposed to great works and new ideas. Maybe centuries before, when great works weren't printed by the thousands, it was necessary to attend a university for that exposure, but it's simply not needed anymore. Things are redefined always. Universities have been redefined. If you want better opportunity, why the hell are you proposing the notion of free higher education? Start at the level of primary school. Let's invest money there, because those are the critical years. I'm an aspiring professor and I still believe university is not for everyone these days, nor should it be.
If you're an aspiring professor, I hope you're aware that education is about more than simply exposing people to course materials. Students need instruction in order to learn, so "just go to the library" isn't really a convincing argument for barricading people out of education based on income.
Following a good high school education
an individual is extremely capable of learning on their own. Have you been to college? Professors aren't their to give instructions on how to learn, they are there to present material they see fit for a given subject. And it sounds like the instruction you speak of is awfully close to what I'm calling specialized skillets. And yes, you have to pay for those. Nobody gives away their expertise for free, that's why college isn't free for everyone buddy. Just think for yourself a little bit here.
Specialized skillets? Wtf are you talking about? It's called teaching. People don't turn 18 and magically not need a teacher to learn. You're planning on being a teacher yourself for God's sake, surely you don't actually believe this bullshit and you're just being stubborn at this point.
People don't turn 18 and magically not need a teacher to learn.
No, but well educated individuals at 18 should be. Honestly, you really don't sound like you've attended college. You don't have your hand held through it. And in graduate school, well, it's almost as if there's no teaching at all.
I'm in graduate school and there is definitely still guidance and teaching from people who know more than you. You're being absolutely delusional if you think otherwise.
What school do you go to? Because it sounds like you've been ripped off if you're repeating shit like, "an educated individual should be able to teach himself." There is a reason professors exist.
The fact that you're arguing against the existence of your future profession simply because you really like the idea of education being tens of thousands of dollars is incredibly sad.
The fact that you're arguing against the existence of your future profession simply because you really like the idea of education being tens of thousands of dollars is incredibly sad.
The fact that you think your professors would be there if it weren't is funny. See, again your rhetoric and name-calling? That's the sign of your flimsy argument.
If it weren't what? If it weren't tens of thousands of dollars? Because I'm pretty sure there are still professors in countries where college doesn't cost tens of thousands of dollars.
Not calling you names, just pointing out the fact that it's delusional to assume you don't need instructors in higher ed. I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to say.
Because I'm pretty sure there are still professors in countries where college doesn't cost tens of thousands of dollars.
Not the individual, but the tax payer. Professors want salaries, that's my point. And the good ones want higher salaries. That's how prestige is built.
just pointing out the fact that it's delusional to assume you don't need instructors in higher ed
Ah there it is, you just have a fundamental misunderstanding of my point. They are needed, but they are there to teach SKILLS. Not ideology. Like I said before, ideologies can be learned outside the setting of an expense. See? I'm actually quite with you that ideas should be free. But I fundamentally disagree that higher education aka specialized degrees based on learned skill should be free.
It still works out to costing less for each person, though. The cost of college in the U.S. is beyond reasonable, can we at least agree on that?
And this is an aside, but professors don't teach ideology in any subject. This is a fundamental misunderstanding when it comes to non-STEM subjects. They may disagree with you and challenge your ideas, but the good ones will challenge your ideas no matter what. That is not the same as teaching you to believe a certain thing. It's teaching you how to defend a position and critically analyze another person's.
This is not something you learn by yourself any more than you can learn to be an engineer by yourself. Possible? Yes. Practical? Absolutely not.
And it's not some useless thing, either. If you want to go into law, politics, or even business, you need those types of skills or you'll get eaten alive.
Now, back on track. What makes your education your senior year of high-school a right and your education the year afterward a privilege that costs tens of thousands of dollars? Why is it education one semester and "skill teaching" the next? It's an artificial distinction created by our current market. It hasn't been like this forever and it is not like this everywhere.
The cost of college in the U.S. is beyond reasonable, can we at least agree on that?
Who am I to say? People keep paying for it, so obviously the majority think it's reasonable.
It's teaching you how to defend a position and critically analyze another person's.
This has no market value. This is not to say it is not a valuable trait, but since we are speaking in terms of cost it's worth pointing out that this is a poor investment on the individual and State's part.
And it's not some useless thing, either. If you want to go into law, politics, or even business, you need those types of skills or you'll get eaten alive.
Experience teaches these better than any classroom. Do you disagree?
What makes your education your senior year of high-school a right and your education the year afterward a privilege that costs tens of thousands of dollars?
Specialization.
It's an artificial distinction created by our current market
There's nothing artificial about it. See above point.
No. The majority do not think it's reasonable, but simply realize that they cannot obtain the lives they want without it. If you had to choose whether to starve or pay 1000 dollars for a single meal, you'd still get the meal, but that doesn't make the price reasonable.
I'm not even going to get into the specific applications for non-STEM skills, because it would be falling on deaf ears and you're against tax-payer funded education for all fields anyway, so it's a different argument. Just know that the vast majority of lawyers don't go into STEM fields for undergrad and I doubt they'd tell you their education is useless in the courtroom.
Now, we're getting down to what I simply do not understand about your argument: what about specialization makes it a privilege and not a right? We've disagreed about the usefulness of certain degrees in terms of their application in the job market, but we at least agree that higher ed is an absolute necessity for certain fields. Shouldn't this make it even more vital to society? Shouldn't it be at least as necessary an investment for us to make as the years before?
but simply realize that they cannot obtain the lives they want without it.
So they make an investment, which is consenting to the price. It's really as simple as this. They could go to a trade school and earn a great living without going into debt. You pay high prices for an education if you believe your future salary outweighs the debt you will accrue earning the education. Your starving metaphor is silly, because of course there's other options to paying a high price for education.
you're against tax-payer funded education for all fields anyway
Don't put words in my mouth. There's plenty of fields I think should be subsidized through scholarship and endowments; but hint, they're all STEM or business related.
what about specialization makes it a privilege and not a right?
The same reasons why not everyone is afforded a scholarship. Costs, abilities/aptitude, number of available positions, etc.
Shouldn't this make it even more vital to society?
If you're to make this argument, you must do so in terms of economy, since pricing of education is the main topic here. And I beg you to convince me that non-STEM/business related subsidized higher education provides economic benefit to society.
One can cause the death of others moreso than the other.
Yes there's second hand smoking, but that's the long con. Drunk driving is the immediate killer. And drunk driving for someone inexperienced at being drunk can spell disaster.
Well that isn't solved by rise the age limit, but with a better drink culture and not giving driving licenses so easily teaching almost nothing to the soon-to-be 16yo drivers.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:22:03 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Uber doesn't do anything that a taxi hasn't been doing for 100 years. They are not a service, they are parasites living off the wealth generated by their employees and customers and providing zero value themselves beyond a fucking map.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:51:06 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:52:46 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Support for capitalism--and the political parties which uphold it--is strictly prohibited
Remember, supporting capitalism is counter to the point of this sub. Besides, Uber is one of the worse companies. They skirt labour laws, avoid many penalties, dodge taxes, fight against unions, underpay their workers, reinvent the wheel which has trashed the livelihoods of thousands of taxi drivers, etc.
What taxi service doesn't come to an exact location? Uber doesn't do anything a taxi doesn't, except track you and sell your data to third parties. Think I'm joking? It's literally true, and that doesn't even get into what that other person mentioned, all of which is true. And yeah, why are you supporting a for profit corporation?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:15:02 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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TNUGS ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:32:46 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
there are other reasons than culture. it's expensive and inefficient to route public transport throughout much of the US. in cities it could definitely be better though.
drunk driving for someome inexperienced at being drunk anyone can spell disaster.
Ftfy
Doesn't matter how experienced you are. Your reflexes and awareness go down really fast even a few drinks in. This is why there are so many drunk driving deaths "I'm an experienced drinker I can make it home!" Nah. If you drink either wait it out or don't fucking drive.
In the US there's information going on that drinking under 21 will mess up your brain.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:15:58 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The other thing people have to remember is that in the USA most cities have horrible public transit and so most people get around by car. Also restaurants and homes tend to be much more spread out than in European or Asian countries. So even though Europeans can drink earlier, there is less risk of them driving drunk since most people live in more congregated areas.
Similarly, I always thought there would be far fewer drunk driving accidents if we swapped the drinking and driving ages in the U.S. You have to learn what drunk is before you understand you shouldn't be it when driving except in the abstract.
Drinking ages:
13: Can drink nondistilled alcoholic beverages (e.g. beer and wine) with parental supervision/consent.
16: Can drink nondistilled alcoholic beverages without supervision.
18: Can drink any alcoholic beverage, including hard liquor.
Driving:
17: Can get learner's permit.
18: Can get driver's license. Involved significant, expensive instruction and testing.
That (unsurprisingly) seems much more sensible than the U.S. where it's-
15: Can get learner's permit.
16: Can get driver's license. Not much involved, one multiple choice test, one 15-minute driving test. If you do it in a small town, you probably won't even have to worry about parallel parking. (I know from experience.)
21: Can drink any alcoholic beverage.
I don't know if it's legal to have alcohol with parental supervision or consent before that. Families do it, but I'm not sure of the legality.
I don't know if it's legal to have alcohol with parental supervision or consent before that. Families do it, but I'm not sure of the legality.
That's up to the individual state (hooray for states' rights leading to a patchwork of differing laws!). Some states allow consumption at home with parental consent, others at restaurants with consent; others allow it for religious purposes; some allow it for culinary purposes, e.g. at a culinary school; others have no exceptions to the 21 age.
My grandmother used to give me homemade cherry wine all the time when I was little. I especially loved it when she gave me the wine-soaked cherries that sat in the dregs of the cask. I think it was to keep me quiet. I regret nothing.
Yep. I think it's important to do that- it taught me to respect alcohol and drink it responsibly instead of seeing it as out of the way and super cool.
Texas (because Texas) you can get a "hardship" license at 15, with proof that the burden of transportation will be on you. You can also drink at any age (in public or at home) as long as your guardian is with and watching you.
I remember quite clearly ordering a strawberry margarita for my 15th birthday at Rainforest Cafe. Or floating down the Guadalupe with my own six-pack of wine coolers. I swear that place is like a whole different country.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 11:17:58 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My wife is from South Dakota and could drive by herself at 14 years old.
Imma go out on a limb and say it was a farm permit.
In my state it requires:
Provide properย identification.
Have parental approval if under 16 years old (application must be signed by parent or guardian).
Provide a completedย Farm Affidavitย (Form DE-IB01).
Pass the written test (not required if you completed aย driver's ed class).
Pass the road test (exempt if you completed a state-approved driver education course).
Pass the vision test.
Also you have to live on 20+ acres that's used for agricultural purposes.
And it's not like a farm permit lets you go anywhere. Aside from farm stuff it's basically a learner's permit; to and from school and work (which is the farm) that's about it.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 12:48:34 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs a Restricted Minor Permit. It means 14 year olds can drive by themselves between 6am and 10pm with permission from their parents or guardians.
My state would allow a permit at 14 intended for farming, but everyone could get it. You didn't need to have any farm identification or anything like that. Then you could get your license in 6 months.
They did end up change that like 4 years ago I believe.
arrow74 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:50:24 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There are 11 people per square mile in South Dakota. Compared to Minnesota (rougly same square mileage) 68 people per square mile. You have a better chance of getting into an accident with 68 people near than 11.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:21:02 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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To be fair there is a big difference in population density and public transportation between the US and Europe.
Age restrictions are always an arbitrary choice, never heard of a really elegant solution. Young people will always make questionable choices. Although higher requirements to get a license don't sound like the worst idea.
Criptid ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:06:02 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In Europe cars aren't as important. In the US, you need motorized vehicles just to get to the grocery store in most places, especially cities. Raising driving requirements would make life a lot more inconvenient and expensive than it needs to be. This is also part of the reason why many Americans rely on cars so much and don't use bicycles.
In 2000 they changed it in my state, now you have to "log" 50 hours of driving time before you can get your license at 16. But it's not like it's recorded. My wife didn't have any time behind the wheel and her parents just lied about it. I freaking taught her how to drive when we were dating and she was 19.
Even better, it's so easy to access alcohol in the US that (at least in my experience) a large number of high schoolers have been drunk before they graduate. So we still have early drinking, but we also let 16 year olds drive independently at the same time.
With driving, how often do people fail? In the U.K. most people (considering they have to be at least 17 as well) pass on their 3rd-4th attempt, with passing on the first time being very rare. I was wondering how that compares to the US?
I just remembered a funny story. My Dad was English and when he emigrated to America in the 60s, he had to retake the driving test to get an American license. The tester was a major Anglophile and was so busy asking my Dad all about what Britain was like that he didn't even notice that my Dad went up a one-way street the wrong way.
Everyone I know passed the driving test on their first try. If they ever had to go again it was because of failing the multiple choice test and you only have to get something like 70% right.
Bugger off is passing on the first attempt rare. Most people pass on their second attempt. The majority of the people I went to school with passed on their first attempt.
I obviously just know a load of really bad drivers then. I know one person who passed first time this year, a couple on their second, but most on 3rd and 4th.
It really depends where you live in the US. I'm in Georgia and grew up in a midsized town. My mom had to sign a sworn statement that I'd driven a certain number of daytime and nighttime hours before I could get my license and I also had to take a drivers education course and do a day long practical driving exam with another student. Basically we drove about 50 miles away to some farm town and back while our teacher rode shotgun. The driving test at the DMV was easier but I still had to park about 4 different ways and drive on the interstate as well as through downtown.
In WI we can drink with our parents wherever we want. At 18 in WI we can drink if it's "part of our employment".
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:03:59 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You can drive at 16?? Here in Melbourne you can get your L's when your 16, and then your red P license when your 18 only if you have driven 120 hours with your L's. And you can only have one peer passenger with a red P. It's absolute madness!
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3- Can drink alcohol at home with parental consent
16- Can drink a small list of alcoholic beverages with a meal, with consent of a responsible adult at a pub or restaurant.
17- Can get learners permit, have expensive driving lessons, take driving tests until you pass (most people pass on 3rd-4th time), and get drivers license.
18- Can drink any alcoholic beverage anywhere, and can buy alcohol from a shop (though most places now have a 'look 21'- if you don't have ID with you, you have to look 21 to buy the alcohol).
IIRC, you can do your driving Theory test at any point.
Also, there is no age limits for anything after 18.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:56:24 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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Of the people who get into drunk driving accidents, what percent do you think had their first drink before 15?
karanz ยท 115 points ยท Posted at 06:18:07 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But wait doesn't the government hand out Pell Grants!?!?! They do help!!! /s.
Pell Grants used to be able to pay for like 70% of a state college tuition and now it's like 40%. This is also a problem we must address and it's deeper and more of a cultural issue. Ie the onus on sports; it costs hundreds of millions and leaves thousands of those "Student-"athletes in the dust by not furthering anything close to an education.
[deleted] ยท 129 points ยท Posted at 11:17:14 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It amuses me how the people moaning that millennials want stuff to cost less money are the exact people who got a load of free or cheap stuff when they were younger.
Whitey: hmmm, good question. I only know I hate the N-word president and I hadn't thought it through any furtherโit is just a propaganda phrase, not designed for logic, can you blame me?
Veritas: no, I understand. The right wing media does your thinking for you. It's hard to escape those delusions, no doubt, loc.
Whitey: so if I have to pick I'd say the 50s.
Veritas: ahhhhh gotcha. Back when the rich were properly taxed and the New Deal framework was helping primarily white people and the South was a terror state for African Americans?
Whitey: exactly! Back when we got ours and they got theirs!
[deleted] ยท 34 points ยท Posted at 11:56:10 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:19:27 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because you used to be able to get great paying jobs with just a high school diploma and one salary could support a family of 4 or 5 people (most women stayed at home with 2 or 3 kids). Now it basically required 2 incomes to afford a home so women have no choice but to work. I understand women's rights, but society was better off when one person works and the other stays home to take care of the house and kids. That other shit is tough and takes a ton of time. Now people have to have a full time job AND they have to take care of house and kids leaving people way more stressed.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:39:15 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:43:10 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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40% of tuition maybe, anything else you're on your own. And housing costs 6k a semester to share a concrete block room with 40 dollars worth of outdoor carpet on the floor, because fuck you.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:33:02 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I remember when I turned 18 I had to sign up for the draft, meaning that I could effectively be swept off to fight in a war without my consent... but heaven forbid I drink.
If I had been allowed to drink earlier, I wonder if one of my first experiences with alcohol would have been doing shots of grain alcohol and getting unbelievably fucked up....
"Virtually all male U.S. citizens and male immigrant non-citizens between the ages of 18 and 25 are required by law to have registered within 30 days of their 18th birthdays"
The whole point of dropping the voting age to 18 was to prevent draft-age men from being unable to vote. This is a hollow victory for a few reasons, given that most wars begin with bipartisan support and the two-party system and electoral college make your voting rights null and void unless you are either Dem or Republican.
But still, why could we do at least that much for draft age citizens, even though it meant passing an amendment to the constitution, but still be okay with sending non-citizen immigrants to war? I bet boomers are very happy about passing that amendment, but what good has it done if we're still able to draft men who cannot vote?
Yeah, it's actually in Australia under the HELP system. It's 20k AUD which is 15,833 USD. It's interest free but indexed to inflation. It gets reported as a tax debt and is repayed automatically from your income. The more you earn, the higher your rate of repayment. You can earn about 40k a year before you have to repay it.
In Belgium it is also tax-based, but with an automatic spread. It is ~1000 Euros per year personally (with extra fundings for students who are poor or on their own) and the rest of the cost gets distributed via taxes.
RDwelve ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:27:14 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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That's an anomaly. Most student loan debt is 4% or higher. I had some. At 8%.
BoBab ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:32:17 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The person is from Australia. That shit is very rare in the States. My highest interest rate on my student loans is like 3.6% and lowest is 3.15%. And I consider myself fucking lucky compared to people I know with 6%+ interest rates.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:55:15 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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Nah, it's the way the system works in Australia. It gets reported to the tax office as a debt and is indexed to inflation. It's not really an interest rate.
Fair enough. The meme is about the USA so everyone will assume you mean you have that low interest rate here..
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:15:25 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why would you ever pay it off with such a low interest rate? Heck, get more of that, and just invest it straight into index funds. 8% return rate on money you got that had an 1.5% interest rate. Overall 6.5% profit.
The only reason you pay it off is because you legally have to declare the debt to your employer, and they deduct a percentage of your wages and salary until it's paid off.
Below $55,874
Nil
$55,874 โ $62,238
4.00%
$62,239 โ $68,602
4.50%
$68,603 โ $72,207
5.00%
$72,208 โ $77,618
5.50%
$77,619 โ $84,062
6.00%
$84,063 โ $88,486
6.50%
$88,487 โ $97,377
7.00%
$97,378 โ $103,765
7.50%
$103,766 and above
8.00%
There used to be an option to get a 20% bonus for any voluntary payments over $500, but that has gone so no sensible person would ever make a voluntary payment.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:30:53 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh ok, now it makes a bit more sense, but you just pay the minimum that's required then? Btw, couldn't you just theoretically get more loans and just invest it? I know of countries in europe where anyone can get loans if they want, and the interest on those are 0% while you're a student, and when you're out of school the interest rate start, but even then it isn't high, probably max 3%. But couldn't you just take all the loans you wanted even if you didn't need it and just invest it?
Btw, couldn't you just theoretically get more loans and just invest it?
They aren't loans in that sense. You never get access to the money, when you enrol you opt to 'defer fees' and that debt is transferred to the tax department. Universities are all public and government funded, so money may not even change hands.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:50:26 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ok so it just automatically pays the tuition? That's not how it works in my country atleast. There's no tuition, just a $50 semester fee you need to pay for, but anyone can get loans if they want to live closer to the university because some people live very far away, they need to loan to get closer. Everyone gets their hand on this money, it's up to them to pay rent, pay for food, etc. People get around $13k a year. I'm pretty sure you could get this loan even if you didn't need it, you lived with your parents right next to the University, not sure if you'd be allowed to invest it though or how that would work. To be eligible for the loan you have to be a full time student though.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:35:07 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Btw how do people who give out these loans make money? Or is it pretty much given that it's a net loss for them? The interest rate they charge or whatever you call it is less than inflation... And if you're a student and you're doing a bachelor + master in 5-6 years, and you don't have any interest rate whatsoever on the loan while you're a student, they lost out on inflation for all those 5-6 years lol.
Btw how do people who give out these loans make money?
They don't. The universities are government funded, the loans are provided by the government, the government collects the money back through the tax department.
Every year the government statistics department calculates the inflation rate and that gets applied to the loan. This year it was 1.5%, in the past it has been higher or lower.
The inflation indexing applies every year, even while you are still a student.
No, you never see the money. All Australian universities (except for one) are public. When you enrol you just tick 'defer fees' and you automatically have the fees linked to your tax file number.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:59:54 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wtf. I have several loans. 19 total. At least 4 maybe 6 with 6.8% and a balance of anywhere between 2 and 4 grand. My lowest rate is 3.something. And my remaining balance is 45k. I'm also unemployed. Haven't worked in 3 months. And in 2 weeks I'll be unable to make my first student payment since losing the job.
I just found it funny that there was a story I came across on Reddit a few weeks ago about a Republican congressman who essentially wanted a promise from the Fed that there would never be a student loan bailout. It got me thinking again about how fucked up our country is where we can bailout big banks who were directly responsible for the greatest economic crisis in this country since the Great Depression YET we have a whole generation of college grads who are competing for a small amount of jobs and the ones who get those jobs are paid pretty poorly with shitty benefits (if any benefits). So we have this whole generation wanting to work, have families, buy houses, buy cars, and just pump money into the economy in general but can't do any of that due to their student loan debt. It seems like this has been a massively growing problem the past few years and its not being addressed. I appreciate reps like Bernie Sanders who want to make college free or low cost but thats doing nothing to remedy the present situation. This can't continue to be ignored much longer.
People were literally conducting state-sponsored murder at this time in Vietnam at the age of 18 but this cock thought they didn't have enough responsibilities.
Yes, as it should be. That push for voting rights should have included the right to drink alcohol. The only counter argument I've heard is that on base soldiers under 21 can drink alcohol but still that is akin to segregation. Only "here" on base can you be a full adult despite the fact that you may die on a battlefield before ever having had the right in your home or public establishment in your country to drink alcohol.
The drinking age was 18 at the time. It didn't get raised to 21 until Reagan.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:22:24 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The first part of the sentence alone already seems stup*d (wow there is censorship in this sub?). Why should I be obliged to fight in a hypothetical war for a county if I was never asked to be born and/or raised in that country to begin with? That's about as authoritative as it gets.
Of course but the topic on this thread is about what a person can and cannot legally do relative to their age. Also, the ridiculously heavy handed censorship in this sub makes it strangely feel like a sub I have been banned from: r/The_Donald. It is almost certainly curtailing thoughtful discussion.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 11:55:22 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 13:10:56 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 15:37:50 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
We would literally block the entrances to campus and camp overnight to block tuition hikes every quarter. The media and adults I worked with would say we are a bunch of babies, entitled, etc. . Fuck all those people.
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant that 50K will only cover one year at many schools.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 12:33:09 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Was over 100k for me. 10 years later, 60k to go! Was it worth it? So far yes. But, if I'm ever unemployed that debt will be the concrete block tied to my ankle.
Don't worry. We'll base our estimate of your ability to pay for this on your parents income, regardless of whether you're estranged from them or the fact you're clearly the age of majority at this point and they have no financial responsibility for you.
People who insist on doing things that are extremely expensive in the US are some of the ones who annoy me the most. I have extra vitriol for anyone who lectures me about how I need to take care of my body or how important school is. They are the same people who would tell you how important it is to take on that $500,000 debt in order to pave the road to your house; kinda similar to the gatekeepers of the world, just a certain kind of parasitic quality as they speak for power.
Irritatingly, the state decided that it would ignore my DNR wishes and spend over ยฃ100k on reviving me into a miserable existence. And then they refuse to give me enough painkillers for the pain the surgeries have left me with. I hate the fact that I don't have control over my fucking body and it has been butchered by them without my consent.
I recommend going to a psychiatrist and informing them that you are desperate and don't know what to do and have no other choice but to kill yourself if you don't receive the help that you need. My friend was able to get enough painkillers after she started refusing dialysis in order to get pain meds because they literally wouldn't give her anything for what she was asking for unless she was dying. It might work if you go into an actual medical facility and tell them that you are literally going to kill yourself because you cannot function in the world in painโI know I can't myself, I take suboxone to deal with chronic pain.
Yeah, hilarious. Except who I am talking about are the superfluous assholes who lecture you about paying out of pocket for expensive medical procedures, dude.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:07:17 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, I hate the human intellect and am willfully ignorant about the world because I cannot stand elitism. Go fuck off to a subreddit that allows treason so you can keep writing your superfluous comments.
There's nothing elitest about getting the best education you can afford. Do you want a surgeon to operate on your grandfather who had a shitty education and graduated bottom of his class?
Looking outside of the American healthcare paradigm my point stands.
Being well educated and good at something doesn't make you elitest, just highly skilled, and being skilled and intelligent is something everyone should aspire to.
My debt might be a lot more than that. Let's just say that if they kill Public Service Loan Forgiveness I'll literally be ok their doorstep protesting.
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 12:47:17 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I've always found (and continue to find) the USA's faith in expensive, shiny paper to be perplexing.
To the point that many Americans i speak to tell me "you can't get a good job without a degree" and when i prompt them about career choices, i'm often told that it doesn't necessarily matter what kind of degree it is and it's not always necessary that it's in any way relevant to the work you apply for.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:20:38 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It sucks, but that's really how it is.
Heflix ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:08:03 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's perplexing but also reality here. The degree is the easy part, the 3 years experience for $14/hr is what's hard
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:02:14 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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Young man/woman, alcohol is very dangerous and should only be consumed by those old enough to do so responsible. Having said that, we are now offering up to $150,000 for degrees in art, history, and literature. Sign here.
But you can get addicted to cancer sticks that cost more than a car payment to supply each month. Oh, and you can die for your country, 17- if your parents sign a waiver like mine did.
Can you go to war, yes. Can you be a member of law enforcement, yes. Can you fight fires, or be in charge of someone'a life in the back of an ambulance, yes. But god forbid you have a drink at he end of the day.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:09:43 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Police departments almost always have an age requirement of 21. Same with Fire Fighters
If you apply to a skilled trades union, not only will you be paid during your 3 to 5 year apprenticeship, there is a good chance that your journeymen's wage will be over 30 per hour. Oh, and a pension. Do young people today even know what a pension is? It was the retirement benefit plan before baby Boomers decided it costs too much and came up with the cheaper 401k
To be fair, it takes about 4 years to get $50k in student debt, so you'd be 22 or 23 by the time you were that deep.
EDIT: Forgot that Americans have to wait till 21, nevermind your system sucks.
Nokthar ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:20:52 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How do you deal with being 50k in debt and no alcohol?
Maybe people shouldn't have to bankrupt themselves to get an education? Maybe we shouldn't be forced to be part of an exploitative system where the only options are earn or die? But nah, that's too radical. The billionaires obviously know what's best
Pay tens of thousands for four years, or get paid tens of thousands for four years and get licensed. Then make real money. Goddammit if i'd started as an electrical apprentice right out of high school i'd be better off in every way. And good luck automating electrical. Or plumbing. Or really the service side of any trade. Accountants will all be outsourced in ten years. Engineering jobs are moving to India. Business/management degrees are largely useless. Licensed tradesmen can make $60k/year if theyre in any decent area.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:00:24 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Bruh, I moved across the country with nothing to my name and I'm going to be in a college next year, each semester is $3000 and I work full time. It's not hard.
[deleted] ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 15:21:38 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 15:24:41 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Where do you live where rent is $1100? You're paying way beyond your means. Rent should take up 1/3 of your take home, AT MOST.
Also for two people? I assume you're a couple, so you should be splitting the bills, don't be a sucker.
bad off enough to need help but not bad enough to get it, its a shitty place
[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 11:10:32 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 45 points ยท Posted at 11:21:17 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean you can work jobs at a young age to save up and work through college.
In what world can a child under 18 save up $60,000+. Even my wife who comes from a pretty wealthy family had to take out loans, she had scholarships, and worked a few places through college.
You can also apply for scholarships, grants, work studies
You can, but it's not guaranteed that people will get them. These things often benefit the privileged in the first place anyway.
community college
Sure, but the programs they offer might not be worth the time. It is better than nothing, but with such a focus on prestigious institutions and programs in the United States, community colleges get scoffed at.
Even so, you don't need to take out debt that becomes crippling
In what world can most people afford to pay for tuition, books, accommodation, and food.
you can't just blame the government because you signed on the dotted line to be in debt
There is literally no other choice. If somebody wants to go to college in the United States of America, they will probably have to spend a lot of money on it. That will either come from family because they're wealthy, or it'll come from loans + part-time jobs.
I don't see how scholarships and grants go to the privileged. And in what world do you need 60k for a degree. Community college plus 2 years at a university can be less than 30k. And let's say you are dirt poor, you can get the Pell Grant which entitles you up to 6,000 a year.
All I'm saying is that it's not black and white and there are alternatives. I know this because I went to community college, got the pell grant, and worked through college.
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 12:03:17 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 12:43:32 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 15:03:21 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Can someone tell me where this 60,000$ figure is coming from? It's not all at once either.
Min wage makes 15k a year. 60/15 = 4 years of salary to pay for college/bachelors degree. If you're smart, you'll work while going to college.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:31:56 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Youโre forgetting about taxes and the fact that... you canโt work full-time on minimum wage and go through college.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:26:35 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
you canโt work full-time on minimum wage and go through college.
You'll only be taxed at 15% for such low wages, which still makes about 13k take home. It's completely possible, but you'd have to spread out your semesters to save up.
I mean you can work jobs at a young age to save up and work through college.
Minimum wage doesn't even allow you to support yourself at poverty level without government assistance.
The big argument I keep seeing against raising minimum wage-or sometimes even against having one-is that teenagers and college students shouldn't be paid more.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 11:44:00 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 11:51:49 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 13:08:17 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
We want what they stole from our labor. The system we live in is already slavery. Both metaphorically and literally.
If you don't see how a majority of the value you create is taken from you, sold, and given to an ever smaller group of capitalist class exploiters, them you're just blind, or love the taste of licking boots.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:49:59 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because slavery is bad. The fact that I need to point this out to you is very telling of how short this conversation is going to be.
Even if we assume that collusion doesn't exist, and inheritance doesn't real, I don't steal from people and I don't want to steal from people. You're contradictory concern trolling, first pleading for the end of theft, then saying theft sounds like a good deal is also very telling of your generally manipulative personality. Let me put it simply,
Theft is bad. Slavery is bad. I don't care how hard you believe billionaires worked to earn their daddy's trust fund, owning people is bad.
Edit, I read the rest of your dribble and want you to know I'm doing fine with my electrical union, and CiT work.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:34:10 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly what I thought, you and your piece of shit Ideology don't care about theft or slavery, you just want to lick the mud off the boot of your master and use the police to make anyone who refuses. I don't have anything to prove to you, your projections don't mean anything to me.
Yeah, you did miss that part didn't you, or maybe you're just intentionally ignoring the fact that without being forced into wage slavery you would die at the hands of the Capitalist enforcers (police) for not paying your taxes, or you would just starve to death. Go love your boss somewhere else.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:16:36 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You don't even know what Socialism is. Go read something, start with the Principals of communism. Fuck your capitalist taxes, and your reactionary fake "libertarian" garbage.
You don't know anything about Venezuela except from what Breitbart lies straight to your face about. The Bolivarian government isn't the ones literally burning food meant for the people..
You think Capitalists are just going to let socialism happen? You think they don't fund the state to enforce their shitty rules? Capitalists love the state. How else could they fund military juntas and coups in resource rich countries so they can swoop in with their company and suck them dry for profit?
If you want to abolish taxes, you've got to abolish Capitalism.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:09:52 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 12:19:57 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:24:56 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
While most of the people here do support some level of socialism, the main thrust of this sub isn't promoting that, but rather mocking and criticizing the current system.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:49:58 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Most of my friends have graduated, or are graduating from University soon. None of them want anything for free, they are just really concerned about being in tens of thousands of dollars of debt.
There's a huge difference.
[deleted] ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 12:07:55 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 12:18:58 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
95%+ of the jobs in the military are in non-combative roles. It's not a bad gig. I got to travel the world, participate in humanitarian efforts, and volunteer opportunities I wouldn't of been able to otherwise. I don't know why this sub paints it as a job that all you're doing is slaying bodies and dodging bullets on a daily basis, because that isn't the case at all. You're far more likely to die in a car crash or disease than in the military.
On top of the GI bill, a lot of positions get your foot in the door for civilian jobs. I've had quite a few friends get out (aviation field) and land jobs paying ~$65-80k a year base salary. Reenlistment in the state of Texas grants you access to the Hazelwood Act, which is further assistance for service members/veterans.
[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 12:53:41 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I find that highly unlikely, at least in today's military. Most personnel are never even in the vicinity of a combat zone. The amount of service members who have even deployed is dwindling away. The amount that have been in a combat zone is less than 1%. The amount that have killed is even less than that 1%.
Statistics show you're more likely to die in a car crash as a service member. I can understand not wanting to join, but the information you've provided is pretty skewed and doesn't resemble any truth of what the military is actually like.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:16:29 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I understand if the military isn't for you- it's not for everyone and that's completely ok! Another option is the Coast Guard. They'll give the GI Bill and tuition assistance, and your primary job would be to serve the public as a first responder of sorts.
Scholarships covered part of my tuition. My minimum wage job covers only part of my living expenses. (I'm on food stamps, and an extended family member is helping with rent. My parents can't support me). Loans were necessary to cover the rest of my tuition.
Yes it is. Education is a business, and the state is happy to charge interest off student loans, while making sure the ppl who run the education business get rich.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:19:12 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Is there a subreddit for anti european capitalism? Because this sub seems to be only usa related
Salivon ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 13:39:07 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Are you forced to have that college debt? You could always you know, not go to college. Or go to community college and work. Or vocational school.
Your history/feminist dance therapy/gender studies degree wouldn't help you get a job anyway
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[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:51:56 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:17:34 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There is no sense in banning people at 18 years of age from drinking. It's not like it's stopping anyone anyways.
Well if you spend the money on a good education, odds are that you can pay it back very quickly, for example as a mechanical engineer (which I should say is a fairly demanding thing to study). Now, if you spend your loan studying something that has very limited career opportunities at sub-optimal pay, like history, art, gender studies or what other what other hobbies people may have, then you've just spend 50k for your own, private entertainment. People don't get that and then they can't pay back their debt. The US squeezes everyone through a one-school-fits-all system and allows wildly unqualified people to go to universities and this may eventually cost the US dearly.
The only difference between the two is that people actually still trust you to make an informed decision when it comes to your career.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:31:21 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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Xynatox ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:11:38 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
50k into debt
Vote below has almost 50% claiming a number half as much.
Juxtaposition is interesting. Too bad the other voting options are cropped out. Would have been interesting to see if there were only two options or if there were more, and how many votes they got by percentage comparison
Can I drink yet?
WHAT NO
Can I rent a car yet?
HELL NO
Can I smoke yet?
That's absurd
Can I join the military
gives gun
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:21:36 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, I can understand why the legal drinking age is 21 in the US. You would never catch me at an 18+ bar if they existed here. With that being said, getting booze would've just been much quicker as an 18 yr old.
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to be fair, alcohol is known to mess with developing brains. The earlier the worse, but which lasts all the way until you're 25. So though the law was not made from being informed by science, but viewed in that context it doesn't look too bad
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If you're a legal adult at 18, you can surely make decisions for yourself like whether you want to smoke or not.
Edit: I don't understand reddit. It loves weed and other drugs, but hates cigarettes, like most drugs aren't more dangerous than them anyway. Weed certainly is for those under 25.
Don't you mean more addictive?
Otherwise I can't make heads nor tails of your point.
Still, it doesn't matter to me, if you're of age you should be allowed to buy anything you want.
In the UK it's 16 to be allowed to smoke in public places, and 5 to be allowed to drink in private ones. 5 is obviously too young, by anyone over the age of about 15-16 should have the autonomy to make those decisions for themselves.
You've exactly described the point of the meme, good job!
18 year old brains are not fully developed, as acknowledged by the 21 year drinking age, but those same underdeveloped brains are allowed to make major decisions that can put them in crippling debt, or like you mentioned, get shipped off to kill for corporate interests abroad. PTSD is also bad for brain growth.
But Alcohol IS a dangerous drug and can harm and ruin your life, while if you go to college you can get the experience, education, and training for the career of your choice.
I did not say that, but what I am saying is that this post undermines the fact that alcohol ruins lives and kills people. With a right savings plan and hard work, debt can be avoided (this is difficult though)
While I understand the sentiment, the reason alcohol should be restricted to 21, or even higher, is that your frontal lobe is still going through myelination. This is the process of enhancing or speeding up your brain processes related to problem solving,memory, judgment, and other important functions.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:59:28 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Get a real degree or actually care in high school and you can get into a decent university for a decent price and earn a degree that will get you employed. Nobody wants to pay for or cares about the 5 years you spent to get a degree in "social justice" or history.
What's the issue with this student debt stuff? It's perfectly reasonable to work your way through college. Just because you got into a super expensive school, doesn't mean you have to go. Plenty of really good instate public places to attend in every state that won't plunge you into debt.
This is absolute crap. How can you compare buying alcohol to getting an education?That very fucking education will make sure you have money to buy alcohol later on. So letting people borrow money for education isnt bad. Sucking at life and not being able to pay it back is.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 13:39:20 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When I was 18, the state I lived in (AZ) changed the drinking age from 19 to 21. Doesn't matter though I'd already been drinking for 5 years and smoking pot for 6. Take that, the Man!
[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 13:44:32 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I like memeing as much as the next guy, but the 21 drinking age limit is due to biological reasons. Drinking can inhibit natural brain development, which it is still doing at 18. 21 sees the average person's brain mostly fully developed, though it won't be "fully" developed until 24.
You've exactly described the point of the meme, good job!
18 year old brains are not fully developed, as acknowledged by the 21 year drinking age, but those same underdeveloped brains are allowed to make major financial decisions that can put them in crippling debt for years.
You're gonna have to get me some details mate. This probably wasn't a problem with The Marines. As far as I could tell there'd be a storm about such a controversy but can't find anything.
Where and when did he get the degree?
What and where was he applying to?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:46:43 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted] ยท -17 points ยท Posted at 11:30:25 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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theAVP ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 11:57:53 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What the hell is a "hardcore liberal"? Also, your comment looks like it was supposed to be a reply but isn't. Unless you were criticising the post's argument?
Besides that, the people in this post certainly aren't the reason you should be ashamed of being American. You have other things to worry about.
GlobTwo ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 11:40:23 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's a human thing. Has nothing to do with your nationality, my friend.
Were not liberals. The word "liberal" implies support for capitalism, and we often criticise liberals here. We're socialists.
There are tons of debate subs if you're dying for that sort of thing. That's not this sub's purpose. Every ideology has a sub just for them. Debating socialism is something which has multiple subs dedicated to it. This sub isn't one of them.
Why do you assume everyone here is an American? A lot aren't. And by the way, most Americans here are anti-nationalists, who don't consider themselves loyal to the American state either.
I used to be like you, thinking these safe-space liberals were just soft and infantile.
Now I understand their reasoning: why engage with their antagonists at all? Half of them are just out to makes others upset, angry and miserable. As soon as you pay them any attention at all, they win. Besides, arguing online has (almost) never change anybody's mind.
So the safe-spacers disengage, seek echo chambers where they will always feel good. Avoid pain, seek pleasure; who doesn't do that?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:34:58 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Your post was removed because it contained a slur. If you wish to have your post reinstated, please edit it to remove the slur, and then report this comment (it will not be automatically approved when changed). If you want to know why you can't use slurs on LSC, please read this. If you don't know which word was a slur, you should have a message from me in your inbox with the word contained.
To be forced to identify with some group, some "-ism", being presented with a list of words an expressions that you arent allowed to use.... ironically, this is, too, a symptom of "the social, moral and ideological decay of western capitalist culture".
You cant just be someone that is just bothered by living in an mad society, you have to identify what the conform subgoup of people that are bothered by the same things as you is.
Any "malicious capitalist oppressor" that would go here and see the Automoderator message would have a good chuckle.
This isn't hard to understand at all. Nation founded off Christian sects and die what would now be seen as libertarian thought. Religion said watch the booze. Neighbors said if you want it work for it. Besides you don't have to pay $50k if you don't want to go to college.
Obvious solution would be to stop people from going that much in debt with higher restrictions on who can exactly take out that much money for a loan.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 12:32:30 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That may limit higher education to the upper classes and that would be a problem. I think a loan should be bound to the person's performance in school, what major they want to pick and how likely he/she is to find a job in that field afterwards and the median salary within the first few years. This way we'd also take care of a different problem: we'd finally get rid of things like gender studies courses - things that don't really belong on university campus. We may as well offer courses on Magic The Gathering. Inb4 someone says that this is/was an actual thing.
Yeah I mean, the idea of a country without a king is totally outrageous.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:55:40 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In some places it still is and continues to be so, in the same way that other countries have a working social system with financial aid for the poor, universal health care and free tuition, while the US probably won't have anything like that any time soon.
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ApproachingZero ยท 1142 points ยท Posted at 12:53:50 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
17: raises hand to ask permission to go to the bathroom
18: well you better have this whole adult life stuff figured out.
[deleted] ยท 645 points ยท Posted at 13:44:09 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ages 12-17: be ignored
Age 18: 'So...what are you going to do with your life'?
Burt_Kocain ยท 375 points ยท Posted at 15:54:55 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
5-17: You're going to this specific school, which you cannot drop out of until you're one year away from graduating, and you're going to take all of these classes and if you decide to not show up then we're going to take you from your parents.
18+: Yeah go wherever and study whatever you want I guess
kbean826 ยท 138 points ยท Posted at 16:55:41 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I have had this idea since high school that all high schools should get much closer to trade schools in the final two years. Students are not required to get jobs in the trained skills they've acquired, but at least an 18 year old with a high school diploma could go out and actually get a job. Things like electrician, plumbing, carpentry (not wood shop, which at my towns schools was entirely a joke).
YourEatingThatWrong ยท 65 points ยท Posted at 17:04:47 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
We fortunately had a full kitchen and a culinary class so kids who took those classes went straight into the kitchen at restaurants to work.
kbean826 ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 17:08:58 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's awesome. We had all that stuff "kinda" at my school, and I don't know if it was a demographic thing (it was an overwhelmingly middle class white school) or what, but basically all of those classes were bullshit easy A's for hobbies. It would have been awesome to leave high school on my way to college for music and still had a fair background in a trade so if it didn't work out I wouldn't have been effed.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:25:34 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
YourEatingThatWrong ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:32:44 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They didn't just work as a dishwasher they went in as cooks in nice restaurants or assistant chefs. Or at least my friend landed a job after we graduated because of the schools program.
But hay those kids learned how to cook that's at least a life skill. I on the other hand still can't cook well haha.
Dash_O_Cunt ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:01:30 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah...no. fast food worker's make minimum but actual restaurant cooks make about 4-5 bucks more an hour and have the potential to make a lot more at really fancy restaurants
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:02:44 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Dash_O_Cunt ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:05:46 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The last cook position I had in a good chain restaurant I got 12 an hour. Minimum wage here is 8
FartsWiddaWindowsUp ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:32:27 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In the county I grew up in we had that. Although, it was not outright said but you knew it was the white trash poor thing to do. Which looking back now is total bullshit thing to think. I wish I had done that instead of incurring $15,000 worth of student debt without shit to show for it.
kbean826 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:34:42 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes to this. Or at the very least a way to work my way through school for what I want instead of being up shit creek without a paddle.
ponyboy414 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:34:39 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I spent at least an hour a day 5 days a week for 6 months in woodshop, I made one 2"/2"/3" box that looked like shit and held no purpose.
kbean826 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:35:52 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly this. Why would they even bother with this class? If you're a "teacher", why would you ever find this level of nonsense acceptable?
TheGreatHair ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:13:55 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't even have wood shop
kbean826 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:30:43 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm pretty sure we had one, but I definitely didn't take it.
Bugdodger ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:45:57 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think Mike Rowe has been campaigning this idea for a while. It sure seems like a great idea, but our society doesn't seem to value trade skills much.
kbean826 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:59:33 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They really don't. It's kinda bullshit. Many of those blue collar jobs pay pretty damn well and have not entirely unreasonable hours and benefits. More importantly, if no one wanted a job fixing my plumbing, my plumbing would just be permanently broken, since I don't know shit.
Bugdodger ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:12:37 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, that exactly his argument. I wholeheartedly agree.
soon2deleted ยท 96 points ยท Posted at 16:02:14 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ageism is something widely acceptable in society but very few pay attention to.
randomaccount1010001 ยท 110 points ยท Posted at 17:02:05 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yep. Since this post is specifically about adultism, I'll give some everyday examples to people who may not think it's widely acceptable.
First up, forcing children to hug relatives.
Why it's wrong: it ignores children's consent and teaches them that adults have the right to their body, tells them that relatives can't be toxic, etc. It also dangerously shows subtly that physical affection is the only way to show affection.
Next up, denying the identities of LGBT+ youth.
Why it's wrong: should be pretty obvious, but tells children that other people know them better than they know themselves and that their feelings about their identities aren't valid, among other things.
Next, children being flaunted as status symbols or accessories.
Why it's wrong: children are their owm people with their own thoughts and feelings. They're not an object, nor are they an extension of their parents. They're a separate being.
Other examples include thinking children owe anything to parents that provide them basics of living, using parental rules as expression of power (aka do it this way because I said so), mandatory attendance policies or no phone policies, etc.
Children are supposed to be cared for, not controlled or owned. They're supposed to be empowered.
But instead, children are forced into foster homes without their consent, they're denied information about their sexual health, denied the right to make their own medical decisions, stereotyped as being disrespectful, and have their work devalued.
"You're not old enough to make these decisions. You'll grow out of it. It's just the hormones. Oh, teenage love. It'll get better. That's impressive for your age. Stop being so childish. I can't stand kids."
And that's only if they're privileged in every other way. Many youth also have to deal with the addition misogyny, racism, homophobia, classism, transphobia, ableism, and other bullshit that society puts marginalized groups through.
[deleted] ยท 53 points ยท Posted at 18:14:40 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I cut up my arm on a rusty tool a few months ago and had to go to a quickmed place. They needed my guardian's permission to treat me because I'm 17. They were out of town and thankfully accepted the phone call. What were they going to do if they didn't answer? Or if I didn't have a guardian? Send me to the ER for a shot and some stitches? If people my age are pledging to the military why can't I make my own medical decisions? (Obviously I get the complications with lawsuits and insurance but still)
Edit: In addition, why can't I vote? Were the voting age extended 2 years earlier to 16, we wouldn't be looking at a Donald Trump presidency I daresay. But I have to rely on neoconservative baby boomers to vote for MY future? (And neoliberal baby boomers to ruin the election with Hillary Clinton)
sisepuede4477 ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 18:32:37 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You just said why you can't vote. The right, as well as the left, benefit from who is allowed to vote. Left doesn't want any rules on voting, because they benefit from it. The right wants to control what groups vote, because they benefit from that. Doubt this will change anytime soon.
[deleted] ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 18:33:43 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I wouldn't call neoliberals "left"
sisepuede4477 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:22:55 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Neoliberals? Explain sir. Please and thank you.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 21:10:09 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism
Basically most of the democratic party
Criptid ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:44:32 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
True, but they're left in American politics because they vote democrat.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:50:29 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
left by an erroneous definition, yes
Zero_Gh0st85 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:16:55 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Are you kidding? Young people are traditionally the least likely to vote. Look up the voter turn out for the 18 to 25 demo.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:26:05 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe because they're tired of the same old shit in a different barrel that the two parties present and want some real change
Zero_Gh0st85 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 21:27:49 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe because? Who are you talking to?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:30:15 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What?
Zero_Gh0st85 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 22:18:50 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't ask why.... Your response makes no sense. Read it again.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:11:47 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think that you should be the one rereading...
kontankarite ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:13:47 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I get it. I still think it's ridiculous that kids can go off to die for imperialism at 17/18 years old, but by god... not one drop of liquor? Come the fuck on.
soon2deleted ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 18:08:39 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I would give you gold for this post. A little touched subject on intersectionality.
I'll go on a few points here:
Forcing children to hug relatives can cause children to ignore their gut feelings and goes against the "Never let anyone touch you in a way that makes you uncomfortable."
On the LGBT+. Children as young as 3 can pick up on arbitrary norms. You've probably heard about children becoming upset because they got something in the "wrong" color.
Relevant quote that covers pretty much the rest: http://imgur.com/a/c7CTN
And also, to hell with gatekeeping.
Up2Eleven ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:33:06 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with almost all you said, except letting them make their own medical decisions. No kid wants to go see a doctor or dentist, no matter how badly they need one.
randomaccount1010001 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 19:44:38 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Then mandate seeing a doctor every x months, and make going to the doctor free. When kids get sick then they'll have to go to the doctor, it's human nature to feel better.
Although, that point was supposed to suggest letting children made their own medical decisions about abortion, birth control, hormone replacement therapy, hormone blockers, and other stuff like that which shouldn't always be the parents business and can make it more dangerous if a parent is involved.
Why wouldn't a teenager want to go to a doctor, besides maybe not wanting to get shots I guess. If there's that big of a problem with going to the doctor then the doctor might be making the kid feel uncomfortable. Find a doctor that the kid really likes, or tell your kid to stand up to a doctor.
I guess I should have phrased it more like "children should be able to consent to medical treatment without requiring consent from parents".
Edit: I wanted to further clarify. When we give children the right to choose their own haircut, that doesn't mean that a child must find their own transportation to a hair cutting shop and find the money to get their own haircuts, it means being empowered to be able to choose what they want, and then later at a higher age find their own money etc. I think it should be obvious that 3 yr olds shouldn't be able to cut their own hair or go to the doctor by themselves.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:11:33 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with everything else, but this not so much. Taking the power over a child away from an individual/individuals and giving it to some higher power (state, society, etc.) isn't fixing the problem. To the child, it doesn't matter who's choosing what they do, just that they have some agency stripped from them.
randomaccount1010001 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:16:49 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think I agree with you too. It's better if the child decides on their own. I was trying to come up with a solution to a child not wanting to go to a doctor, but maybe there's no need for one. I'm not sure about that situation a hundred percent honestly.
Edit: spelling
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:43:12 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah. There's always the give and take between, "the child should learn to be responsible for itself and shouldn't be lorded over," and "the child will surely want god teeth in the future."
The way I see it, there are maybe two ways to go about it. First is just to let the kid feel like shit until it wants to go to the doctor. The second is to get rid of the idea of rights, and realize that sometimes you have to teach people things in a way that they don't really like. A tough love approach. Just make them go to the doctor for their wellbeing.
I don't know which one is right, though. Luckily, I don't have kids.
randomaccount1010001 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:03:30 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Giving up the idea of rights doesn't sound like a very good option. Maybe being forced to go to a doctor is one of the reasons that children sometimes don't want to go.
Maybe it could be something like...
<5 yrs, take them without consent
5-9, let them tell you when they're sick and let you decide to take them or not depending on if it's a cold or something more serious
9-13ish, Let them go for any excuse.
14+, they decide when to go.
I definitely think that people should have the right to make their own medical decisions by the time they're 13. If they don't want to go to a doctor, then again, there's a specific reason. That reason should be talked about, but they still shouldn't be forced.
The only situation I see where it's okay to make a kid go to a doctor that they don't want to go to is if they're very sick and refuse to go otherwise.
I don't see any reason why a tough love approach should ever be needed. It provides nothing but resentment and hatred. Let me know if you think there's any way it can work for the majority of people.
Also, please be careful about calling people "it". Children are still people.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:18:58 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This seems to be what you're doing. You want to void freedom of self-determination for people under five. I really see no point in this morality creation. It's all arbitrary to everyone except the one creating it.
Why five?
Well, because younger than that they aren't smart enough.
What is smart enough?
Well, etc.
I personally think it's a waste of time to play these games. But in your capacity as a parent, hold yourself to whatever standard you choose, you feel Me?
True. Although some adversity is needed, I think. I can't handle it when parent give their children everything without making them learn that sometimes patience is needed, and sometimes you have to struggle to get what you want, and sometimes you just can't have things, etc. Maybe it causes resentment, but maybe that's good. Maybe kids need to resent their parents a little, so that when they're able they have enough reason to assert themselves against the will of their parents. But personally, I don't really resent anyone or anything. I'm glad to have had some hardship because it makes Me who I am.
No. I try not to gender people. It doesn't un-person someone, it's just using an agendered pronoun.
So I'll reply in faux snarkiness, "Be careful about calling people "he/she". Its are still people."
randomaccount1010001 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:23:38 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I assumed that that's the age that children would be able to communicate.
They is a perfectly fine gender inclusive pronoun...
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:40:04 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It is a singular object, though. They is a plural subject. I needed a singular object in that situation. I could have more appropriately used them, but I chose it instead.
randomaccount1010001 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:43:31 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They is perfectly fine as a gender inclusive pronoun. Who says that the word they is plural? Even the OED affirms that they is fine to use in both singular and plural. It's also the pronoun that many people who aren't at one of the two ends of the gender binary use. I can see how it would be weird to refer to singular objects like tables as they, but they're objects, not people.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:39:18 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The problem with they isn't just that it's plural, but more that it's a subject. "It"'s nice because "it" is both object and subject.
anyways, I'm gonna keep using it
KoveltSkiis ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:14:09 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.
Having yearly or bi-yearly vaccinations and checkups could do a lot to make everyone a lot more safe and help spot conditions that could be treated early.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:42:31 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not talking about the usefulness of having kids go to the doctor. I thought that was obvious.
My point is that moving the ruler/owner of a child from being parents to being the government/society doesn't make the child any freer.
OdenDD ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:27:27 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Christ this fucking post
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:34:43 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You're joking? You think NOT buying your kid a cell phone for $80/month is disempowering/opressive? I'm going to guess you're still in high school. Some parental authority is necessary to prevent your kids from turning into total shits.
randomaccount1010001 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:40:33 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
By the no phone policy I meant things like "no phones allowed in school or suspension" and stuff like that. Sometimes people get important phone calls from their families and need to tell them something.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:57:58 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, I see what you mean. Like schools being too authoritarian. I thought you meant parents taking kids phones away, or, I inferred, refusing to pay for their cell phone plans.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:12:31 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
not totally related, but I think you might like this article
http://www.somedaily.org/ipad-far-bigger-threat-children-anyone-realizes/
Isolatedwoods19 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 01:49:27 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like I'm constantly defending the cognitive abilities of teens on Reddit.
mikeymikeymikey1968 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:40:19 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I've been teaching high school art for 19 years and I still can't get used to people "asking" to go to the bathroom. I just tell them to take the pass and go if you need to go, just tell me, in case you might miss something critical.
reactionsinteardrops ยท 2304 points ยท Posted at 05:49:41 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
USA: Also we are fighting a war for corporate interests. Go and die for it like a true patriot. But you're still definitely too young to buy alcohol or make other decisions regarding yourself.
pat8u3 ยท 878 points ยท Posted at 09:19:11 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
inb4 some solider saying they can drink alcohol while deployed, like it makes it any better
[deleted] ยท 697 points ยท Posted at 12:54:31 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
lootedcorpse ยท 69 points ยท Posted at 13:38:27 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Whenever someone asks me where I'd rather live than the United States, I will forever say Qatar now.
bluewords ยท 452 points ยท Posted at 14:01:12 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Don't
TempestofMist ยท -20 points ยท Posted at 14:37:29 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well I mean to be honest many of the complaints about Qatar can be applied to the US.
bluewords ยท 87 points ยท Posted at 14:52:06 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Can you find a source for when in recent memory the US has held people's passports and worked them to death in 100+ degree (34 Celsius) weather to build a soccer stadium? Hell, if nothing else at least there are places in the US that aren't 110 degrees everyday. If you think chilling in Denver where you can smoke a bowl, be gay, and not be sentenced to prison for 15 years for writing a poem criticizing the government is about the same as what life in Qatar is like, feel free to ignore me. I'm no US apologist who tries to brush our problems under the rug by saying "yeah, but this place is worse," but denying that other places are in fact worse is simply foolish.
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2017/country-chapters/qatar
ghrayfahx ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 14:56:31 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There were also several cases of western women being brought over to work in the hotels. Those women would then sometimes be raped. Then imprisoned when they reported it because it was sex outside of marriage. Not a bastion of freedom by any stretch of the imagination.
sjtreetgoochem ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:54:01 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In the Emirates, to be precise
Penguins-Are-My-Fav ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 15:01:03 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
http://web.stanford.edu/group/chineserailroad/cgi-bin/wordpress/faqs/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narrative_of_the_Life_of_Frederick_Douglass,_an_American_Slave (he wasn't the only one)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_among_Native_Americans_in_the_United_States
The US has committed many atrocities in the name of commerce...
bluewords ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 15:10:47 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So, America had shitty human rights 100 years ago. Fair enough, I wouldn't suggest you get a time machine and go there either. In the year 2017, though, America is not on the same level as Qatar because of the generations that came before us and fought for our civil rights. America is far from perfect. We still have a long way to go and more progress to make, but we have at least made it past the slavery, crime to be gay, and persecution of free speech phase of our history, which cannot be said for Qatar.
sjtreetgoochem ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:55:15 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Qatar is, for instance, the one and only safe haven for political activists fighting for democracy in the rest of the Persian gulf region. The world is not so simple.
KingOvScrubs ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:40:41 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because 150 years ago versus now is a totally accurate comparison. Clearly nothing has changed since then and it's 100% applicable to situation.
TempestofMist ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:20:54 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well I didn't say that though. I said a couple of the complaints: so let's see: being overly extreme with jail sentencing. Or maybe it funding terrorist groups. Or maybe your complaint with Qatar is it having huge income inequality. But to be fair, the US does have [forced labor] through exploiting undocumented workers and also through prisoners.
What I'm trying to say is, the USA has many of the same problems Qatar does, without even publicly acknowledging them.
But that doesn't mean Qatar doesn't suck. It does. But so does the USA.
Also I can't believe I'm arguing with someone who posts in r/the_donald and CringeAnarchy. Fuck you, rightist piece of shit.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:48:14 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Found the president of Qatar
TempestofMist ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:52:07 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Found the liberal bootlicker who supported Hillary.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:52:51 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not liberal, hate Hillary, and don't live in America, but good try!
TempestofMist ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:53:07 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Are you a comrade or not.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:53:59 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Dialectical materialists generally do not like liberals, like at all, and loathe Hillary for being a neoliberal warhawk. So yeah, I am I guess.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:58:32 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
AutoModerator ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:58:33 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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TempestofMist ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:05:14 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No I meant exactly what I said. Fuck fascists. Fuck authority.
Smith7929 ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 15:27:36 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I love this sub and the petulant ignoramuses in it.
Sympwny ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 16:01:30 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
/r/iamverysmart
Smith7929 ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 17:01:17 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, that sums this whole sub up well. And then you get a real job and cringe as you think of your younger days as a furious keyboard warrior.
lel_rebbit ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:04:05 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
is that your plan in life or?
Cuthbert_Of_Gilead ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:57:10 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Fuck off nazi scum
Smith7929 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:16:56 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
REEEEE
Cuthbert_Of_Gilead ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:44:54 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
irony.jpeg
[deleted] ยท 138 points ยท Posted at 14:01:48 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
keenynman343 ยท 55 points ยท Posted at 14:19:13 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Am Canadian. Its much better, you have to be 18 to join the military and basic training camp is in Quebec where you have to be 18 to drink.
KingInTheWest ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 15:03:54 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There was 4 17 year olds on my basic platoon. And you can join the reserves at 16 with parental approval. Not sure where you got the 'have to be 18' thing
keenynman343 ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 15:34:47 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You know what, you're totally right cause my brother did the black bear program which counts for his basic. I was generalizing the age most people join full time. My bad for not being clear bud.
KingInTheWest ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 15:40:18 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh don't worry about it brother, if I came off cross it's cause I just pulled my hungover ass out of bed. You are right that most people join at 18, actually a bit older I was a young one at 20 in basic even with the 17 year olds
lootedcorpse ยท 43 points ยท Posted at 15:44:11 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is the most Canadian argument I've ever seen.
petersm8 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:52:52 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
All of you get upvotes from me, wouldn't be surprised if a gold got in there either
apolotary ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:09:11 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I am late to the party, but can I have an upvote too?
petersm8 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:13:55 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Absolutely!
apolotary ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:58:14 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you โค๏ธ
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:22:56 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Equal distribution of upvotes to the people, friend.
lootedcorpse ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:42:08 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I just try the upvote button like a "I've read this" button
keenynman343 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:55:42 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
God I know how you feel I was dying this morning. Thanks for your service boss, my brother goes to Kingston on the 8th little nervous but really proud.
kent_eh ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:09:41 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
18 is also the drinking age in Manitoba. (Ask any University of North Dakota student)
Several other provinces are 19.
keenynman343 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:50:32 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think it's only Ontario and bc where it's 19.
kent_eh ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:58:02 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
According to Wikipedia:
19 years of age inย BC,ย New Brunswick, Newfoundland and Labrador,ย Northwest Territories,ย Nova Scotia,ย Nunavut,ย Ontario, PEI,ย Saskatchewan,ย andย Yukon
18 years of age inย Alberta,ย Manitoba, andย Quebec.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:03:24 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
AutoModerator ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:03:25 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Your post was removed because it contained a slur. If you wish to have your post reinstated, please edit it to remove the slur, and then report this comment (it will not be automatically approved when changed). If you want to know why you can't use slurs on LSC, please read this. If you don't know which word was a slur, you should have a message from me in your inbox with the word contained.
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Peterdoesdrugsalot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:51:10 on August 8, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And alberta
xorgol ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:32:42 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Or literally anywhere in Europe.
BullRob ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:40:54 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
QualityLennySpam ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:36:16 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
why pss n qtr?
2xedo ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:51:54 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah,,,,,, no
OuijaAllin ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:32:17 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
u have many commรฆ in ur post
2xedo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:53:12 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
๐ค
lootedcorpse ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:53:32 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Highest average income of any country in the world
ballinthrowaway ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:13:22 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So you'd probably be a slave there.
lootedcorpse ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:42:05 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, we're slaves in a way, right? Might as well be in the highest average income economy on Earth while you slaving away.
ballinthrowaway ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:51:27 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
.....are you being serious? Being a corporate slave in America working some office job is a little bit different than being a literal manual labor slave in fucking Qatar.
lootedcorpse ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:54:30 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
same same
ballinthrowaway ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:47:29 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:18:33 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
AutoModerator ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:18:33 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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iSmoke-Trees ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:32:10 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Canada or Norway
mikeymikeymikey1968 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:42:16 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My brother in law served in Qatar and he claims it gets up to like, 140F in the mid-day sun.
lootedcorpse ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:23:31 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To kill all the bacteria and germs, right?
Grumpchkin ยท 164 points ยท Posted at 10:20:54 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Pretty sure soldiers under 21 still can't drink and MPs or whatever they're called have to make sure they don't drink while they are out killing folks.
scorinthe ยท 150 points ยท Posted at 10:57:12 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, the military does not restrict drinking based on age over eighteen unless there is a state or national law setting that age to a higher number. Generally, the determination for the age is set by the installation commander, and at overseas military installations that might mean it follows the UCMJ's established age limit of eighteen while the service member remains on said installation. State law establishes the age of legal alcohol consumption to be at twenty one years old due to the effects of the National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984 because that act reduces or removes federal funding from states if the states have a legal drinking age lower than twenty one. Military installation commanders in the United States can set tat age to eighteen for service members while they are on the installation if they wish (though that normally does not happen).
Trisa133 ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 13:23:25 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I've never seen it happen since most don't live on base and it creates massive conflicts when they leave base drunk or in possession of alcohol.
There are funny base rules such as E1-E3 can only buy a 6 pack.
InterstellarOwls ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:06:51 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I brought a pack of corona onto base one time and was told at the gate that I wasn't allowed to bring "foreign beer" onto base. Where they also sold corona and other foreign beers at the exchange.
just_an_ordinary_guy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:32:34 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They were probably using "foreign" as "not bought here." I'm assuming if it was bought at the package store, and you could prove it, you could bring it back on base.
InterstellarOwls ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:42:19 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
no, quite literately "foreign" as in not American. I was specifically told, "you can bring in some budweiser, or coors, or anything like that. it has to be domestic"
just_an_ordinary_guy ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:17:01 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lol, wtf. That's ridiculous. I was never old enough to drink when I lived on base, and I got the fuck off as soon as I was allowed.
InterstellarOwls ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:22:12 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
yea pretty ridiculous. Luckily, I was only living on base for a couple of weeks when I first reported, until I found an apartment. I honestly thought the guy was joking at first, but he told me he was serious. Fortunately, he didn't enforce it though, he just told me to keep it in mind for next time. The funny thing is even the bar on base sold tons of foreign beers.
just_an_ordinary_guy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:55:07 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Almost sounds like he was making shit up. MPs aren't really that different from cops. They just want to feel like they have power, and telling you you were wrong, but "giving you a break" is the exact kind of power tripping cops do.
marshallfinster ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:32:26 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ft Bliss had the age at 18 when I was there between 2006-2008. Pretty nice buying a bottle or two of jack.
DingleberryGranola ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:57:02 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was stationed in South Korea in '99 and USFK policy set the drinking age for service members at 19 then. In early '05 (near the time I became woke) I'd just returned from a pretty intense 13 month tour in Iraq. My good friend at the time had been through a lot during our tour, and at 20 years old, was a few years younger than I. Trying to get this kid into a bar to share some drinks was fucking impossible. We kept getting carded and sent away from every establishment at the door. I remember how pissed off I was at the situation, but now I think about how he's an FBI agent now and I don't feel so bothered any more.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:32:52 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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DABBED0UT ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:33:19 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So I see your final point is that using slurs is cheating and unfair, lol.
[deleted] ยท 38 points ยท Posted at 09:55:45 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
[deleted] ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 11:59:19 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
dessalines_ ยท 36 points ยท Posted at 15:07:37 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Stop this "thanking ppl for their service" bullshit. There is nothing admirable about imperialism.
EatDahPewPew ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 16:21:33 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Forgot to add the /s at the end.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:46:27 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
Catch_Here__ ยท 230 points ยท Posted at 12:07:01 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
USA: Also, if we catch you smoking weed we are going to ruin your life.
shopliftthis ยท 202 points ยท Posted at 12:45:00 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Only if you're poor tho. Teehee.
wankers_remorse ยท 52 points ยท Posted at 17:12:14 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
see also: black
jason2306 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:08:21 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
sprinkles crack in cat
runfayfun ยท 47 points ยท Posted at 13:34:48 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If we catch you running over and killing British tourists while drunk, but you're a millionaire, you won't go to jail though.
nova-geek ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:32:09 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Reference? I searched but couldn't find the exact incident. There was one where a drunk American shot two British tourists but you mention running them over with a car.
drewdupe ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 15:52:33 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_Couch?wprov=sfsi1
nova-geek ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:19:29 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ah, the affluenza defese... I read a recent case like that where the defense used that excuse... It's amazing. If anything, the poor should get to use such an excuse that I didn't have enough to eat so I stole.
runfayfun ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:25:30 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
While Ethan Couch is another example, the one I was referencing was the Florida jewelry/whatever heir LeVin, source. Apparently not drunk, but the rest is the same. Apparently it was street racing. It was 7 years ago, hopefully you can cut me slack on the details :)
nova-geek ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:25:38 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Murdering while being sober doesn't make it any less bad. On the surface it seems like we are a country of laws as opposed to the backward Asian or Middle Eastern countries where the rich can do whatever they want with impunity, but we aren't much different.
runfayfun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:33:35 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. There are two justice systems. The one where poor people are thrown in jail for years for possessing marijuana, fairly universally deemed safer than cigarettes and alcohol. And the other one where rich people like OJ and this LeVin guy can actually kill people without ever seeing the inside of a prison cell.
Ph_Dank ยท 52 points ยท Posted at 13:26:29 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
All this shit happens because christians fucking want to control everything.
PsychoNovak ยท 132 points ยท Posted at 14:04:23 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nah weed's illegal because Nixon wanted to lock up black people and protesters.
skinna93 ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 15:38:31 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No it's because of Anslinger, William Randolph Hurst, and the DuPont family wanted nylon.
It's the same reason aspartame is used in diet soda instead of cyclamate.
Pure capitalism babee, don't adapt to a market, use your weight to make the next big thing illegal.
Ph_Dank ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 15:40:43 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Funny how all the people that support free-market usually want the most anti-competition regulations.
kent_eh ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 16:11:38 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
See also: network neutrality.
Criptid ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 18:46:54 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because the free market inevitably devolves into the least free market ever due to greed.
yeos_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:16:24 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
ELI5 on aspartame and cyclamate?
I think you can blame capitalism for all the reasons for anti-cannabis legislation. Locking up black people and protesters creates segregation and limits folks utilizing their free speech. The church looks down on it because smoking detracts from church attendence which means a smaller tithing.
skinna93 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:33:09 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
http://mentalfloss.com/article/76881/tragic-history-rc-cola
Scroll to the bold bit about the delight of manufacturers and frightening of sugar industry. Overall it's a great article though.
Sorry I'm on mobile other I would copy pasted, and the site was being a pain.
Trumpopulos_Michael ยท 42 points ยท Posted at 15:24:16 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yup. And the Christians joined in and gave massive support to banning it and to this day to keeping it banned because they fucking want to control everything.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:34:01 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Burt_Kocain ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 15:53:14 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nixon began the War on Drugs, then Reagan came in and said "You think that's Draconian? Hold my beer...".
cwazyjoe ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:47:20 on July 25, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
As if alcohol isn't a dangerous drug... ugh
Martian_Conquistador ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:03:21 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Que no las dos?
Zero_Gh0st85 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:20:30 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I got caught smoking weed. Life is fine, no record. A lot of states had 1st time offenders acts. Michigan did. 1 year probation and 40 hours community service. Possession of marijuana. No record.
Phasko ยท 187 points ยท Posted at 10:26:52 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And please do drive a car. Because cars aren't dangerous, and help AMERICA to have a STRONG ECONOMY.
[deleted] ยท 166 points ยท Posted at 11:38:30 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But if you buy a car, make sure it's an AMERICAN faulty, mess of a machine with an intentionally short lifespan. That way you'll have to KEEP buying American over and over. Like a PATRIOT.
Lightwavers ยท 52 points ยท Posted at 12:44:08 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[DELETED]
YoullShitYourEyeOut ยท 104 points ยท Posted at 12:49:48 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But you can't kill yourself by leaving your Tesla running in your garage like a true American
Sequoia3 ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 13:07:52 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Peter Russo style
stupidfritz ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 14:28:00 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
spoiler tag often?
FPSXpert ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:17:46 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's been a few years since that episode first came out, I think it's ok.
Did you also know that Snape killed Dumbledore? And Vader was Luke's father all along? And Zoe Barnes was pushed onto her death by subway train by Underwood?
Now if I told you spoilers from the current season, I could get you being mad at that. But I haven't and he hasn't, so chill, dawg.
Gkkiux ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:20:31 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not sure why you got downvoted - I only saw the episode last week
Krististrasza ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:54:38 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So in other words, you can't afford the heating bill anymore.
touching_payants ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 12:48:24 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Faulty mess with a short lifespan?? my 2000 saturn sedan still gets me to work every day....
runfayfun ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 13:34:16 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That doesn't mean 2000 Saturns were reliable. It means you happened to get one that lasted about 18 years from manufacture.
lanster77 ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 13:22:35 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And my 98 Camry still gets me to work, mines older HA! NATIONALISM!
touching_payants ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 13:42:45 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't have a saturn because I'm a patriot, I have a saturn because they're reliable & easy to work on
touching_payants ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 13:42:58 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And cheap.
br4inwashed ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:37:02 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Reliable lol
touching_payants ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:04:44 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
??
texastoasty ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:20:19 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My friend still drives an 82 saab
lanster77 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:20:58 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I love older saabs, do you know what model it is?
texastoasty ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:21:35 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not a clue
Mimikyutwo ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 13:38:15 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Never understood the hate of America on this subreddit. America is one of the few counties where some amount of power lies with the people. Go vote and change the things you don't like.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:54:49 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How do you use your power to change things in America? Can I have a few examples?
Mimikyutwo ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:17:14 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I've cast votes for plenty of constituents that support my interests. My vote has gone towards installing bike lanes and paths all over my city, raising gas taxes, and then the allocation of that gas tax to maintain the state of our road systems.
dessalines_ ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:11:04 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You might want to read over this list of US atrocities we have linked in the sidebar then. The US is easily the most evil empire in world history.
"Voting" to improve your lot under capitalism is about as likely as lifting yourself up by the bootstraps. We don't support bourgeois democracy(democracy for the rich) here. If you persist in this liberalism, you'll risk a ban.
Mimikyutwo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:27:44 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So what then do you suggest, if not the vote? Falling to melancholic cynicism seems even less likely to accomplish anything. Ban me if you must, but then you'd ostracize someone who's at least wiling to question the status quo and risk losing a potential convert. That seems even less productive than the other two things.
dessalines_ ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:32:53 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Arming up, forming workers organizations, and seizing and socializing education infrastructure, taking it from the state and private administrators who currently treat education like a commodity / business where students are the consumers.
And secondly, if you think that things like public education are going to stick around in mixed/welfare state economies like the nordic countries, the UK, or Germany, you're wrong. Watch this video by the marxist student federation of sweden that shows that social services provided by the capitalist state are currently being eliminated.
Mimikyutwo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:40:35 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Interesting. I feel this is how things will progress naturally, given the phasing out of traditional blue collar jobs, combined with rising population levels.
Capitalism only functions as long as the supply and demand are balanced properly, and most if not all the political policy n effect now exist to keep that concert running smoothly.
dessalines_ ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:43:19 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Capitalists aren't going to give up their power over society without a fight. Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.
nova-geek ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:34:55 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Vote and choose between a millionaire corrupt gangster lady who will steal from you with a smile on her face, and a billionaire corrupt arrogant angry man who will steal from you without a smile on his face?
PS: I voted for a third person. I don't see much of a change.
Mimikyutwo ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 15:07:11 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because you voted in the minority. It falls upon you to talk to people, convince them to join your minority to become the majority.
nova-geek ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:36:25 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I did vote for a popular guy in primaries but they Democ-rats didn't let him win. I did tell people about he two evils and recommend that they don't vote of either of the two evils, but people are too brainwashed to try a third party which might bring some real change. I do realize that a President alone can't do a whole lot, the House and Senate are important, and so are the local elections but few people even notice the local elections.
Mimikyutwo ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:34:56 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I voted Bernie as well. The fact that a socialist got as far as he did demonstrates change is happening. I'm not defending either party, or politicans in general. All I'm saying is that short of a militant uprising, voting is all we have. Personally I'll go for uprising, but again I'm in the minority for now and uprising require the majority.
nova-geek ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:14:33 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Attempting to overthrow the US government is seditious conspiracy... They may not choose to prosecute the rich criminals like Clintons but they sure will come after people like you and me (remember Kristian Saucier, the Navy sailor, who ended up in trouble for taking pictures of an aircraft carrier? He tried to point to Clinton's case and they didn't give a sh*t, it was as clear an FU as there can be, the law doesn't apply to the rich and the powerful).
"If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both."
I think an uprising doesn't require a majority, it seems like a critical mass of active protesters can get the tide turned.
PS: I think most people ain't got time to be furious, they are too busy amusing themselves to death, working hard to buy the next shiny toy or to spend the money at a game they love, making the rich richer...
Mimikyutwo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:43:20 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is true in regards to your post script.
Hrtzy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:39:47 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
*Offer void if your employer won't let you have the day off to go vote.
arrow74 ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 12:42:44 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But if you don't want to drive that's too bad, because we have shit public transportation. So drive or have no job and starve.
W00ster ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:33:32 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And guns - you can have lots and lots of guns but have a drink? Nopety-nope!
SkankHunt70 ยท 75 points ยท Posted at 12:08:21 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Isn't the minimum enlistment age 17? Old enough to kill but not old enough to drink or vote. They love the country enough to die for it, and can be trusted to wield arms in the name of democracy but can't be trusted to wield a vote in the name of democracy.
Tobix55 ยท 43 points ยท Posted at 13:28:58 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, 17 year olds shouldnt vote, but neither should they fight imo
LemonG34R ยท 41 points ยท Posted at 13:50:57 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Here in Britain there is a strong movement to enfranchise 16 and 17 year olds, which I support.
At that age you're able to legally marry, have sex, pay taxes, join the military, you can drink even before that so surely you should be able to vote.
The voice of the next generation still in education should be heard, it would stimulate political engagement among the youth which is so much lacking and encourage better representation of all British citizens.
[deleted] ยท 46 points ยท Posted at 14:39:02 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
RSmeep13 ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 18:54:09 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think most teenagers know way more about politics than you might think. Or maybe I just hang out with the political kids.
VacuouslyUntrue ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:02:42 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You just dont know enough about politics yourself to see that the kids are full of bs. They dont know shit. There are a lot of opinionated kids, but Ive never met one who was actually knowledgeable about politics.
jason2306 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:12:19 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I was voting in my country and realised how little I knew about politics and how many people must must be like that.. it's kind of scary especially when you see politicians banking on that refugee hate. I mean don't get me wrong there are issues with how it's handled but people telling refugees to fuck off and basically nothing else just makes it seem like refugees must be the reason most of the countries flaws.
Tobix55 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:56:02 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
At 16 some are mature enough to vote, but others are not. I'd also say that for peoply my age(19) tho
LemonG34R ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 14:06:18 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Doesn't matter, you don't get to gatekeep the enfranchisement from others simply because you disagree with their maturity or views,
It's about the principle of their right to be heard.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:36:18 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'd also say your point is doubly relevant in the states. "No taxation without representation" is a hard sell when you get your first job 2 years before you get to vote. Granted, you could be making little enough that you pay no taxes in theory, but they still withhold.
juusukun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:54:38 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Legal drinking age is 16 accompanied by an adult and 18 without
SkankHunt70 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 13:39:18 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
agreed. I don't think anyone is actually sent overseas until over 18 but if push came to shove it's possible
PepsiMoondog ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:10:02 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
17 year olds should absolutely be able to vote. Probably even younger than that.
I-Downloaded-a-Car ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:00:03 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Or smoke
Or sign things
Or make their own financial decisions
Or work full time
Or have sex
Or buy spray paint
Or buy a BB gun
Or live on their own
Or rent a car
Or pawn something at a pawnshop
Or watch porn
Or order something online
Or gamble
Or even buy a lighter.
[deleted] ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 14:55:55 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
kent_eh ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 16:20:43 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Politicians hide themselves away,ย
They only started the war.
Why should they go out to fight,ย
They leave that role to the poor.
dessalines_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:08:57 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Please help me with pointing out imperialist apologia, this whole comment thread reeks of it.
rubbarz ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:02:10 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not old enough to conceal a weapon but old enough to fight a war. merica!
spamburghlar ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 12:02:25 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, how many decisions are made for you in the military?
[deleted] ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 12:38:51 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
deleted What is this?
kent_eh ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:18:49 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What's your sole purpose in this army?
To do whateverย yourย tell me, drill sergeant!
God damn it,ย Gump! You're a god damn genius!
labrat420 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:05:29 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But your old enough to have sex on camera!
SWEARNOTKGB ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:33:09 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Smedley butler already new this in his book "war is racket" wonderful quick easy read.
cornylamygilbert ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:09:09 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Debt slavery yes
as if intoxication might hinder the likelihood of the other?
ProfessorSarcastic ยท 1252 points ยท Posted at 08:16:28 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
17 year-old: "Can I buy Call Of Duty for Xbox please?"
UK: "No, that's illegal and wrong!"
17-year old: "OK, can I join the army and go kill people and die in Afghanistan for real?"
UK: "Sure!"
17-year old: "How about I watch Shades Of Grey in the movie theater?"
UK: "Illegal and wrong. Also, that movie sucks."
17-year old: "Well, can I just go out and have sex with people then?"
UK: "A-OK!"
thamasthedankengine ยท 321 points ยท Posted at 08:48:53 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Isn't the age for rated R and M both 17? And the age for the military 18?
ProfessorSarcastic ยท 364 points ยท Posted at 08:55:17 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In the UK we use PEGI ratings (edit: for video games), which are 7, 12, 16 and 18. And you can join the military at 16, although the youngest UK soldiers in Afghanistan have been 17 as far as I'm aware. I should point out that they aren't MEANT to be there, we aren't supposed to send anyone off to kill people until they are 18. At 16 and 17 we are merely training them to kill people.
justquitecurious ยท 131 points ยท Posted at 10:28:59 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Join the army at 16? Shit man
Chicken_Bake ยท 205 points ยท Posted at 11:27:39 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well what the hell else are you supposed to do when you've dropped out of school and got your girlfriend pregnant?
akbort ยท 149 points ยท Posted at 12:05:29 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just work harder of course and wealth and security will fall in your lap.
sirspaka ยท 123 points ยท Posted at 12:36:21 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Bootstraps intensify
dancing_mop ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:18:28 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well, you shouldn't have done that. You had a choice, you know.
Oh, you wanted a solution? Lol, entitled commie millennial liberals. You don't know what you're talking about. Venezuela.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:54:18 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:09:46 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I joined when I was 17, got the military to pay for my university and I'll retire with a pension when I'm 37 and take the skills I learned to the private sector. But yeah you're right, we're all uneducated knuckle draggers.
[deleted] ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 13:29:16 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 13:35:45 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't and I haven't. Police don't kill people to support their family but killing people sometimes happens. Same thing in the military. I agree with the underlying thought though, that the economy should be in better shape so that poor people aren't forced to look at the Marines or Army as the only option for an honest paycheck and good benefits.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:39:13 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:00:05 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What an ignorant view you hold. By that logic I can say that by paying taxes and voting you support killing on the frontlines.
Poes-Lawyer ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 11:58:04 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I believe you can actually sign up at 15 years, 9 months. The reason is that by the time you're required to do anything army related, you'll have turned 16.
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 13:12:13 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
By that standard the Canadian military should let you sign at 14.
hdsfjhdjfh ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 12:04:12 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Makes it disturbing when you hear it advertised on the radio or TV with those "I did badly in school and didn't know where to go, but the army helped me find my way!!" type stories.
People mature at different rates but I was a kid at 16. The idea that I could have signed up and been to war is wild.
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 13:08:01 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Worth it to retire with a pension at 36 years old. And you're still young enough to do something else with your life, all with a steady drip of money from the pension.
justquitecurious ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 13:18:17 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hmm that does sound quite nice. But I guess if you have to go to actual war zones... hmm
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:25:15 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's plenty to do in the military besides frontline combat. You will spend time away from home but even while deployed you're still safer than a lot of other professions out there.
kent_eh ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:24:09 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not that a solider gets any choice over where they get sent.
"But I'm an accounting clerk"
"Yes, you are now transferred to the paymaster's office in Kandahar. Try not to catch any IED shrapnel when you go out for coffee."
universalforce77 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:39:32 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Jesus Christ do you people not realize that only 20%-30% of jobs in the military put you in the line of fire. Do you really think you are gonna get shot if you are flying a drone in the Arizona desert? Or when you are giving X-rays in a hospital?
justquitecurious ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:09:09 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Jesus Christ not everyone is a fucking American and spends their days musing about arms jobs. I'm a scientist in industry. Try to be less arrogant, geeez
universalforce77 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:57:48 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You are the one being arrogant... Assuming that joining the military automatically means you are going to get shot at.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 11:15:16 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
BBFC for movies, PEGI for video games.
ProfessorSarcastic ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:22:38 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks, yes, I've edited my post to reflect this.
Shinji_Kagawa ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 10:47:05 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I thought it was 15 in the PEGI rating not 16?
TipsyRedditor ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 11:10:16 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think your confusing PEGI with BBFC
shoes_a_you_sir_name ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:51:46 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wait, so someone under the age of 15 couldn't see a "rated 15" movie even with an adult?
garagedragon ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 09:33:50 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
UK doesn't have a 17 rating, only
1615 and 18[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 09:45:18 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
ZaneHannanAU ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 10:04:10 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Australia at the least has G, PG, M, MA15+, R and R18+ IIRC.
But still, the barest of violence (animated or otherwise) gets PG, sexual references gets M.
GlobTwo ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 11:45:35 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
18+ is the only version of R. There's also X18+ but I've never seen that anywhere.
garagedragon ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 10:22:28 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oops, my typo.
J-Navy ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:02:18 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You can join the service at 17 with parent/guardian signature.
Source: am in military.
jc731 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:02:19 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
IIRC-R means you need somebody over 18 accompanying you. Nc17 is no-one under 18 is allowed in theater.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:07:27 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's actually not illegal to buy M-rated games in the United States (California MIGHT have passed a state law a while ago, can't recall). The ESRB rates the games and companies like Game Stop make it their policy to adhere to the ESRB ratings.
[deleted] ยท 57 points ยท Posted at 10:57:28 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Stargazeer ยท 43 points ยท Posted at 12:31:48 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Let's be honest, that's because you can't really regulate it. Therefore you trust that a parent would be responsible.
flamingfireworks ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:21:42 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, its not like a cops gonna bring a breathalizer to my house in the US and check my kids for alchohol, unless its obvious that im getting them shitfaced and their doctors reports are reflecting that, or theyre going in public clearly strung out.
Stargazeer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:26:32 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. And by that point it becomes an issue of child services.
Shamasta441 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:25:54 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And here is where we humans deviate from reality
[deleted] ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 12:31:51 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm pretty sure that would still violate some child protection laws and at the very least get the family in question under supervision. It's just that there's no outright ban and it's left to the judgement of the parents. Usually that just means that parents can let their children have a sip of beer to let them know that it tastes awful.
flamingfireworks ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:21:58 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Or for religious reasons.
Kindanoobiebutsmart ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:09:03 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
?
flamingfireworks ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:13:18 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Im not a cleric or anything, but i do know that many churches communions involve giving (depending on the denomination) either teenagers or children of any age alchohol (typically in EXTREMELY low amounts. Like "you get more buzzed using hand sanitizer to clean your hands" amounts), some jewish sects (sorry, dont know how judaism works completely) will give children wine, etc.
Novawulfen ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 10:16:54 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just a note - my understanding is that while 17 year olds can join the army, they won't be deployed anywhere until they're 18.
[deleted] ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 12:10:24 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's a few cases of 17 year olds going to Afghanistan
Novawulfen ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 12:15:35 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The article does point out that it was strictly against MoD policy tho...
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 12:19:00 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Its against international law
Hugginsome ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:01:50 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Except Reese
Novawulfen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:17:14 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Reese?
Hugginsome ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:32:16 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Malcolm in the Middle. He sneaks into the army with false id and gets sent to Afghanistan.
PickleYourNipples ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 11:32:13 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
At least pegi isn't legally binding, and with parental consent we can drink alcohol from age 3.
ProfessorSarcastic ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 12:21:01 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
PEGI is legally binding with ratings above 12, if you're selling or providing video games as rewards. It wasn't for a while, but it is now.
garagedragon ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 09:35:38 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, I wouldn't want impresssionable 16-year olds thinking that FSOG tells you anything good or sensible about how to have sex or have a relationship.
Kiroen ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 09:45:58 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And impressionable 18-year olds? The problem isn't that this art exists and it's accessible, the problem is that healthy relationships and sex are barely mentioned in education, which makes it harder for people to have any good point of reference.
MoneyStoreClerk ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 10:04:50 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
True. Only after dipping my toe into the subject human sexuality through college did I realize what a joke sex education is in the school system. It completely neglects addressing anything that isn't heterosexual, and only actually covers basic anatomy.
JGStonedRaider ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 11:24:43 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You plonker! It's your dick not your toe you are meant to dip in.
TheDrunkenHetzer ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:42:19 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hah! Sticking your dick into things? Not until you're married sonny!
D0esANyoneREadTHese ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:21:35 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Abstinenceโข is the only true option until after you're married! And don't even think about trying to masturbate, you'll get hairy palms and go blind and you'll never be able to have a fulfilling relationship because you'll have too many different images in your head!
garagedragon ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:24:35 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Impressionable 18-year olds are a problem too, but there's no rating higher than 18 except for R18, and you can't mark a film R18 for "contains scenes of non-consensual abuse and misogyny." (Also, 18 year olds are marginally more likely to know better, even though yes, the education situation is terrible)
TRBRY ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:28:36 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair again, you need to have lived a sheltered life to not come upon far worse teachings of sex in this day and age than said movie/book.
flamingfireworks ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:23:18 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Its also relationships, and its portraying them in a positive way, wheras other popular media that show actual abusive sociopathic relationships like IASIP are doing it in a "yall see how fucked up this is, its hilarious" way.
TRBRY ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:12:54 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Are you actually saying that fifty shades is the sole bad influence in fiction? Or am I reading this wrongly, after all I'm not a native English speaker.
flamingfireworks ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:19:22 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, im more saying that as far as bad influences go, a extremely mainstream and widely accepted piece of media portraying an extremely abusive and manipulative relationship as something beautiful to strive for is probably towards the top of the list, wheras most other media portraying bad relationships stops at "okay, this persons actually a douchebag/creepy", not "okay, this person is literally human garbage, this is the kind of relationship that gives someone long-term PTSD"
TRBRY ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:28:04 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You ever heard of pornhub, xhamster and so on? That's what I mean when I say sheltered, a not so great movie is no more than a blink compared to everything else that's available to todays impressionables.
flamingfireworks ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:45:48 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Okay but see, those are objectively porn. Who says "i watch porn for the plot".
Im not saying "this is bad because sex is evil". Im saying its bad because when you turn on a porno, you know youre gonna be watching a poorly scripted thing thats not representative of the real world at all. Worst case, you develop misconceptions about sex. When you watch a romance movie depicting an abusive relationship as romance, even if you can rationally think "thats a little off", you still end up getting things from it.
TRBRY ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:01:28 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I hope no one is so insulated that they derive how to treat a sexual relationship based on one book/move. There are plenty of fiction that while fantasy is not as bad as 'fifty'.
Don't get me wrong I do get that it shows a bad way to utilize BDSM in ones sexual awakening but there are plenty of other sources on the net that can remedy much of the harm this piece of fiction did.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:16:13 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
GlobTwo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:42:27 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I might be wrong but it seems as if you've misread "UK" in that comment.
Over421 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:31:55 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
have you heard "gone mad" by blay vision and jme? that's like the entire point of the track
tehbluehero1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:55:59 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Just because you can do something doesn't mean you're y should do it, but just because a nation worries for its youth, doesn't mean they don't care, they probably just care a little too much
suchdownvotes ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:26:12 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Citizen: Can I have help getting off Heroin?"
Utah: "I don't give a fuck about you addicts"
Citizen: "Can I watch porn?"
Utah: "No! that's dangerous and will stray you from the light of god!"
Fucking religions
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:58:00 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ppl in UK like shades of grey
Yufery ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:06:00 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ahh, but you see, consistency of government policies is strictly against capitalism. We must please our lord and savior Adam Smith first and foremost somehow!
CobaltPlaster ยท 453 points ยท Posted at 07:04:19 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
From what I have heard dishing out student loan with high interest is a legit bussisness in the USA.
You can hate communism all you want but at least they have free education.
[deleted] ยท 303 points ยท Posted at 08:02:24 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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ingen-eer ยท 89 points ยท Posted at 10:31:05 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I wouldn't say enslave but if you want to get elected with emotional appeal and focus on identity politics then making sure your electorate won't examine the plausibility of your claims is probably a good long term investment.
If your product isn't compelling enough to inspire long lasting fanaticism in the electorate, then eroding their education so they don't know how to examine an argument or question your authority works just as well.
StrokeGameHusky ยท 57 points ยท Posted at 14:08:20 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
As someone who has $80k in student loan debt, I would say enslaved.
Vandstar ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 00:44:08 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And your degree is in what? My sister has a BS in Psychology from a private school and a law degree from a major school. She is the VP of HR for a small company "Less than 10k employees" and her debt is paid off "$800" a month. She is single and has raised a child through the entire process. Her first job after the law degree, filing paperwork for $11.00 an hour. If you haven paid you debt, I don't see the fault anywhere but in you. You will be hard pressed to make me see it any other way. Edit: She is 38 and her salary is 100k yearly.
StrokeGameHusky ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 04:35:36 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
First of all, This is your "sister's" story, so you clearly don't have an example of student loan debt in your own life or you would have used it.
Second. She is 11 years older than me. And has a gradauate degree. I am 2 years into loan repayment, with a BA in Communication Studies.
I have not found a job that pays more than bartending. My first jobs out of college were entry level sales and some were door to door. Spare me the BS about how she started @11 an hour (which is damn good what, 15 years ago?)
Third. Spare me the "raised child thru this entire process" BS. No one asked her to have a child, its her decision. Tax breaks are amazing for a single mother.
Fourth. I pay $900 a month and make ~$30k (it's not a flat rate)
Finally, "100k annually" Lol I'll never make that and pay this shit off before I'm 38.
Bold of you to make this personal, when it's not your own personal experience, AND I was merely referring to the fact that being in $80k in debt is overbearing. So please, kindly fuck off.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:41:02 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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StrokeGameHusky ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:48:22 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So the issue is wording then? Bc I said "enslaved"?
How about "indentured servitude"?
Bc I will not buy a house until this is all paid off, I live on my own now, but want my own home. I cannot do so unless I get a super high paying job and can get a mortgage from a bank that is cool with me having so much outstanding debt.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:58:20 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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StrokeGameHusky ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:03:31 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well the conundrum is, I don't want more debt. I am renting from a good friend so I'm in a good sport currently and I am in no rush.
If I reallllyy wanted to, I could buy a $100k house that needed some work. However, when I do plan on buying a house I want to put a huge down payment down so I'm not stuck with another $900 a month expense.
I know, it doesn't make sense. But I don't wanna just buy one just to buy one. I wanna save up and buy one and have the lowest mortgage possible. Also, my credit will go up once I don't have as much debt on the books, so I'll get a better rate
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:10:04 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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StrokeGameHusky ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:17:20 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's a great mentor, keep them around haha
I agree 100%. I think we are in the same boat here. It sucks, but I signed on the dotted line and made my decision, now I just gotta pay it back
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 05:19:59 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why would you spend $80k on a communications degree? At some point in your college career, you must have realized there isn't much for a comm sci graduate. Honestly, you being "enslaved" is your own fucking fault. You deserve everything.
I graduated with $20k in debt with a BSEE. I made my rent with on campus jobs and internships. I even worked internships that weren't in my field. I even did an accounting and managerial internship (which really helped later on).
Plus, there are tons of managerial training programs. My senior year of college (6 years ago when the economy was way worse), I got two job offers for these programs on a fucking flight from Reno to Las Vegas. The company (in my case, the Cosmo Hotel and the MGM) pays for your MBA of Masters in Hotel Management and you work under a manager. When you graduate, you have a job with the company. My fiancee's coworker was a drafter whose principle architect sent him to grad school on the condition he works for him for a certain amount of time. Its how I got my Masters. My company paid me to go back and get my masters in Fields.
Sorry for the long rant but seriously. Its your own fault for not getting a higher paying job post college, building your resume in college, getting a shitty degree and going that much into debt.
dapperedodo ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 09:15:15 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is so cringeworthy! Thanks!
StrokeGameHusky ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:45:17 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks man. You are just a better human than me I suppose. Good luck m8
jason2306 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:13:46 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lol
leetchaos ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:11:25 on July 25, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You took the loan out. Repayment of voluntary debt is slavery? That's a tad hyperbolic.
[deleted] ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 14:31:47 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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StrokeGameHusky ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 14:36:54 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not blaming the system, I signed those papers. I'm saying $80k in debt in your 20's is enslavement.
Also, if you don't go to college, everyone considers you a loser. There is definitely a social encouragement that "everyone should go to college"
dessalines_ ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 14:43:02 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Banned for liberalism / shitting on ppls education choices.
[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 15:01:36 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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dessalines_ ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:04:47 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And you get a ban. EVERYONE GETS A BAN!
Novashadow115 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:55:05 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Love you u/dessalines_ <3
dessalines_ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:43:09 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
u too bby :)
Beuneri ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:43:50 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Everything is easy to predict in hindsight.
Most people going to university are way way WAY too young to make educated decisions about their life.
Everyone is pressured to go to university because to most people it seems it's the only way not to get left behind.
You probably don't even care about the education that much, you just know that the reference group you're in is going in, and that university education is always better than not having one, your parents tell you how they want you to educate yourself and you REALLY don't know better.
Yeah, you can't place the whole blame on the system, but that really a heavily grey area. Why is having sex with underage people illegal despite them giving consent? You got it, it's because general populace has deemed them unable to make educated decisions because they are too young.
StrokeGameHusky ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:33:29 on July 25, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes it's hard to understand what's exactly going on at that age. I knew I needed to go to college, I just didn't know just about anything else.
I wish I made a more informed decision at the time, or did more research at the time. A HS class about college would have been extremely helpful tho, the costs, how loans work, how credits work etc etc
Kinnasty ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 22:23:23 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thats why Tsarist Russia, Cuba, China, Vietnam, Cambodia, Venezuela, Ethiopia, etc, etc were such highly educated populaces at the time of their plunge into communism? Hint: they werent.
kent_eh ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:27:45 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I remember a high profile American just a few months ago loudly proclaiming "I love the poorly educated".
runfayfun ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 13:37:25 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Free education does not serve the interest of politicians. A majority of conservatives vote Republican for one or two issues, and the chief one is abortion, laws on which have minimal to no effect on abortion rate, which is really hilariously ironic. We have voters literally voting based on one issue which has zero relevance. Even worse, conservative politicians are anti-birth control and anti-sex education, even while birth control and sex education are two very proven ways to reduce abortion rate. It would be hilarious if it weren't so sad. If people were educated about this, there wouldn't be a major dividing issue for the conservatives to stand on.
kent_eh ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 16:30:02 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
"But if we don't tell teenagers about sex, then they won't discover that it exists and they'll never have sex before we authorize them to...."
runfayfun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:27:31 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And even though we will not be educating them about sex, fertilization, and the processes that occur while a fetus develops, in no way will this hamper their ability to recognize that while pregnant they shouldn't smoke, drink 2-liters of Mountain Dew daily, drink alcohol, eat deli meat, etc. while pregnant.
[deleted] ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 08:42:51 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 09:24:30 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Same in Austria, if you're doing well you can also apply for a scholarship (as in, you receive money and still don't have to pay for university). Textbooks and so on also seem to be cheaper here than in the US.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 11:16:38 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Do you guys use the same textbooks? Because I'm pretty sure companies like Pearson run a racket in the US, with schools enforcing their web programs (which are over priced and underwhelming)
verfmeer ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 11:52:46 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I checked my books and I have quite a few Pearson books, but they all clearly state "International Edition: Not for sale in the USA or Canada". We don't have any of their web programs.
[deleted] ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 12:03:52 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That really says a lot.
AequusEquus ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 12:25:47 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This makes me sad :( I've got a little sister who will barely be able to afford community college, much less those goddamned Pearson bullshit books
verfmeer ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 12:33:07 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well, I get 400 euro/month government support during my bachelor and master, so I'm able to pay 300 euro/year for books.
CelestialStructure ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 13:30:51 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In Czechia, it is common that the professors write their own textbooks specifically tailored for the class they teach. They are sold by the university book store for around $10.
I have also studied abroad in Sweden and Austria and have never used any of those infamous web elearning systems.
SpaceChimera ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:22:47 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It is not uncommon for professors to write their own material for class in the US, but some will then charge hundreds of dollars for those books.
Essentially double dipping into the students money
DCMurphy ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:02:15 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
One of my professors was on the 12th edition of his book when I took his class.
Each one came with a CD and a code, with a few excel spreadsheets on it that was used for the homework.
I paid $200 to be allowed to do my homework. This was a required course across the entire business school.
He is a piece of human garbage.
verfmeer ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:45:40 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Was it a business school or a school business?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:23:02 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, he was in business.
4CatsInATrenchcoat ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:26:24 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Fuck Pearson.
FloZone ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:23:00 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The influence from publishing houses is probably not as bad, but they try to force themself into the university system of course. As for Germany there was a case with the VG Wort... don't ask me what they do in detail, but they manage copyrights and because universities couldn't get a deal (they did in the last moment) with them, tutors wouldn't have been able to give out digital copies for example.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 10:51:11 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Getting money for studying is normal in Germany, for anyone who can't afford it (you have to pay it back later). And I didn't have to buy a single textbook for my bachelor.
fagendaz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:50:33 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Here in Italy we have public and private universities. You have to pay for public ones but the tax is proportional to your income. If you have no or low income, it's free. The most expensive public university, which is the Polytechnic University of Milan, costs about 3000 โฌ/year if you have very high income. Private universities like Bocconi cost a lot more but there's easy access to scolarships if you are good enough.
FloZone ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 12:16:37 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
We also have different healthcare. Yet introduced by Bismarck as means to appease the population and take away opportunity from the left. I'm not saying its bad, but giving out cheap education and healthcare is not necessarily a leftist measure, can be quite the opposite, but it seems the USA especially have a hard time seeing such compromises.
nova-geek ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:43:19 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In the US, giving free healthcare or education means you're a bloody communist, Marxist. Even the most leftist mainstream politicians did not talk about giving these basic services for free, only Bernie did, and the whole machinery fought to make him look "unelectable" because he is such an "extremist" and not a realist. Perhaps one good thing is that more people are now talking about single payer healthcare here now.
Imperator_Knoedel ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 10:33:19 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Or which government is willing to pay for it.
cough cough Austria cough cough
Wateringclans ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 11:21:35 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Spain - Free public universities. Then deoending on the provate one thst you like you can end up paying +1500 euro /month so I'd say that 50 k debt looks legit if you are forced to a private one :)
GA45 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 12:25:02 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In Scotland we get up to 5 years of uni or college funded which is enough to complete a degree and masters if you don't have to repeat.
Reutermo ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 11:42:08 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You forget that everywhere that isn't America is actually governed by Communism.
Tardigrade_Bioglass ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:08:54 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'd love if I could have gone to university for free. I got out cheap with only 30000 in debt
CobaltPlaster ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 09:27:34 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hey, I'm not saying that every capitalist country is money-thirsty like America.
Nihht ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 11:19:23 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They literally all are. Just depends on the degree the corporate elite and the state are intertwined. In America they're indistinguishable.
SlothsAreCoolGuys ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 14:19:01 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Student loans should never have more than 1% interest rate
dessalines_ ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:50:32 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They shouldn't exist in the first place. Time spent on education is productive labor.
SlothsAreCoolGuys ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:57:37 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
100% agree
thenewiBall ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:41:23 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That would be incredible, I'm happy for my refinanced 7%
[deleted] ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 14:25:57 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ya, lets give more money to rich people at the expense of the poor, great idea.
DCMurphy ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:04:59 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because the rich take out student loans?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:11:18 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, and they'll take out a lot more when you start giving out loans at below inflation interest rates. Get your hands out of poor peoples pockets. This tankie routine you've got isn't fooling anyone. You love the system because all it does is take from the poor and gives to upper middle class liberal arts majors. You just want more. That's why all the policies that you people want do nothing to help poor people. You have no clue what being poor is like but you like to be hip and identify with poverty that you've never experienced. You've convinced yourself that because you can't afford a trip to Fiji every year you're just like people on food stamps. You're a grifter, nothing more.
DCMurphy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:21:05 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Assuming someone else's argument for them is not only very rude, but it's also ignorant. You're also taking this to ad hominem for some reason. Take your anger out on someone else.
Wealthy people do not take out 4.5+% Stafford student loans. They usually have adequate credit and assets to secure better interest rates since they likely don't have the liquid cash available to pay for 4 years of tuition.
1% is too low of a number (notice how I'm not the guy who proposed it), but are you actually suggesting that offering lower interest rates is going to hurt the poor? As it stands, financing higher education costs like 25% higher than the already outrageous sticker price of what you're buying.
Students should not be a profit center outside of private institutions. Let Harvard and Duke do what they want, but charging interest rates at their current levels on StateU loans is irresponsible.
dessalines_ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:52:17 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Banned for trolling.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:24:10 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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PM_ME_BEARS_OR_FEET ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 13:38:53 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Who is 'they'? What communist country has a free and prosperous educational system?
wldd5 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 13:52:25 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Cuba
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:37:55 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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dessalines_ ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:18:38 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In terms of human rights, health care, education, and anti-racism, Cuba is far beyond the US.
wldd5 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:45:57 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Haha I would much rather not be able to call our leader a name and have free health care and education than be here in my current situation. It's not even comparable. "Freedom" of speech is nowhere near as important as health care or education.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 15:25:18 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:28:54 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 15:33:04 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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wldd5 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:36:19 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Neil DeGrasse Tyson is the bestest scientist ever because he's famous!!!
Redditditditdi ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:40:56 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sure buddy, that's who I mean. How's Cubas space program? And research facilities? And government funding of both acedemic and hospitalized medical research? Oh that's right...
wldd5 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:42:09 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Famous equals better :)
They should waste their money on going to space instead of curing mother to child HIV transmission
Redditditditdi ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:52:36 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wow. Go look up our funding levels for both compared to Cuba. You lack intellectual merit on all levels. I've never argued about famous versus better. We give substantially more in funding and produce substantially more. In all sciences. Not compared to a lot of countries, but certainly Cuba.
Go back to your le depression and Im failing school posts (makes sense given your content in comments.)
wldd5 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:56:47 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Huh it's almost like the US is bigger or something.
I graduated.
Redditditditdi ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:02:52 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Many European countries offer better education in certain scientific fields and are much smaller than the US. Size doesn't have much to do with it. Just concede your point was invalid and you can move on.
wldd5 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:04:36 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Huh it's like those countries are richer and not under an embargo
Redditditditdi ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:14:21 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Huh it's like your citing reasons why I'm correct now.
(only the US has a partial embargo against Cuba, they're free to sell to the rest of the world. It's almost like communism fails at leading to prosperity).
wldd5 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:32:33 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Cuba is the most prosperous Caribbean nation lol
Redditditditdi ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:56:17 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Keep going this is great. All other Caribbean nations are third world countries. Lul
wldd5 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:06:18 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You don't know what 3rd world country means
Redditditditdi ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:56:15 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
? Are they not smartypants?
wldd5 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:30:08 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Any country not aligned with the US or USSR during the Cold War is third world
Redditditditdi ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 15:31:45 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Of course it is, as it should be. It's up to the individual to take on those loans. Just like anotjer other loan. Why are you against the businesses? It's not their fault people can't think for themselves.
dandaman0345 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:20:30 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, lets do the same for K-12 too! Fuck the poor, am I right?
Redditditditdi ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:03:40 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What? If you can't afford college and can't get scholarships to go then absolutely you shouldn't be there. Quit with your primary schooling equivalency strawman. Higher education is fundamentaly different. Source: couldn't afford college alone so worked my ass off to get scholarship.
dandaman0345 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:13:25 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Education is a right, and it doesn't stop being a right after you turn 18. Higher education is only "totally different" because we make it that way. It isn't "totally different" in Scandinavian countries or even in mainland European countries where it's at least priced semi-sensibly.
Your bootstrapping bullshit philosophy in regards to education is an absurdity in the developed world.
Redditditditdi ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:28:31 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. And we are able to say that because of our system, we have a plethora of prestigious universities. Whereas European countries may have one or two notable prestigious universities per country, we have many.
No, absurdity is a $100000 doctoral degree in something like women's studies, which teaches no real skills, regardless of whether its paid by the state or the individual.
dandaman0345 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:33:23 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
We are a country of 320 million people, so I would hope that we have more than one or two prestigious universities. The problem is that our education system is behind a gigantic paywall, regardless of what it is you're studying. Don't try to wriggle out of admitting this by attacking women's studies. That's pathetic and an obvious diversion from what we were discussing.
Redditditditdi ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:35:43 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No its not a diversion. It's an example of money poorly spent. Higher education is and always should be a means of gaining more specific skillsets. Libraries are not behind pay walls. Culture (for the most part) is not behind a paywall. Knowledge is everywhere. Ideas are everywhere. We do not need universities for someone to be exposed to great works and new ideas. Maybe centuries before, when great works weren't printed by the thousands, it was necessary to attend a university for that exposure, but it's simply not needed anymore. Things are redefined always. Universities have been redefined. If you want better opportunity, why the hell are you proposing the notion of free higher education? Start at the level of primary school. Let's invest money there, because those are the critical years. I'm an aspiring professor and I still believe university is not for everyone these days, nor should it be.
dandaman0345 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:46:03 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you're an aspiring professor, I hope you're aware that education is about more than simply exposing people to course materials. Students need instruction in order to learn, so "just go to the library" isn't really a convincing argument for barricading people out of education based on income.
Redditditditdi ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 13:33:08 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
See the rhetoric you're using? "barricading".
Following a good high school education
an individual is extremely capable of learning on their own. Have you been to college? Professors aren't their to give instructions on how to learn, they are there to present material they see fit for a given subject. And it sounds like the instruction you speak of is awfully close to what I'm calling specialized skillets. And yes, you have to pay for those. Nobody gives away their expertise for free, that's why college isn't free for everyone buddy. Just think for yourself a little bit here.
dandaman0345 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:19:06 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Specialized skillets? Wtf are you talking about? It's called teaching. People don't turn 18 and magically not need a teacher to learn. You're planning on being a teacher yourself for God's sake, surely you don't actually believe this bullshit and you're just being stubborn at this point.
Redditditditdi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:25:27 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, but well educated individuals at 18 should be. Honestly, you really don't sound like you've attended college. You don't have your hand held through it. And in graduate school, well, it's almost as if there's no teaching at all.
dandaman0345 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:05:00 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm in graduate school and there is definitely still guidance and teaching from people who know more than you. You're being absolutely delusional if you think otherwise.
What school do you go to? Because it sounds like you've been ripped off if you're repeating shit like, "an educated individual should be able to teach himself." There is a reason professors exist.
The fact that you're arguing against the existence of your future profession simply because you really like the idea of education being tens of thousands of dollars is incredibly sad.
Redditditditdi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:48:31 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The fact that you think your professors would be there if it weren't is funny. See, again your rhetoric and name-calling? That's the sign of your flimsy argument.
dandaman0345 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:27:02 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If it weren't what? If it weren't tens of thousands of dollars? Because I'm pretty sure there are still professors in countries where college doesn't cost tens of thousands of dollars.
Not calling you names, just pointing out the fact that it's delusional to assume you don't need instructors in higher ed. I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to say.
Redditditditdi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:42:12 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Not the individual, but the tax payer. Professors want salaries, that's my point. And the good ones want higher salaries. That's how prestige is built.
Ah there it is, you just have a fundamental misunderstanding of my point. They are needed, but they are there to teach SKILLS. Not ideology. Like I said before, ideologies can be learned outside the setting of an expense. See? I'm actually quite with you that ideas should be free. But I fundamentally disagree that higher education aka specialized degrees based on learned skill should be free.
dandaman0345 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:06:41 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It still works out to costing less for each person, though. The cost of college in the U.S. is beyond reasonable, can we at least agree on that?
And this is an aside, but professors don't teach ideology in any subject. This is a fundamental misunderstanding when it comes to non-STEM subjects. They may disagree with you and challenge your ideas, but the good ones will challenge your ideas no matter what. That is not the same as teaching you to believe a certain thing. It's teaching you how to defend a position and critically analyze another person's.
This is not something you learn by yourself any more than you can learn to be an engineer by yourself. Possible? Yes. Practical? Absolutely not.
And it's not some useless thing, either. If you want to go into law, politics, or even business, you need those types of skills or you'll get eaten alive.
Now, back on track. What makes your education your senior year of high-school a right and your education the year afterward a privilege that costs tens of thousands of dollars? Why is it education one semester and "skill teaching" the next? It's an artificial distinction created by our current market. It hasn't been like this forever and it is not like this everywhere.
Redditditditdi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:16:03 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Who am I to say? People keep paying for it, so obviously the majority think it's reasonable.
This has no market value. This is not to say it is not a valuable trait, but since we are speaking in terms of cost it's worth pointing out that this is a poor investment on the individual and State's part.
Experience teaches these better than any classroom. Do you disagree?
Specialization.
There's nothing artificial about it. See above point.
dandaman0345 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:30:34 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No. The majority do not think it's reasonable, but simply realize that they cannot obtain the lives they want without it. If you had to choose whether to starve or pay 1000 dollars for a single meal, you'd still get the meal, but that doesn't make the price reasonable.
I'm not even going to get into the specific applications for non-STEM skills, because it would be falling on deaf ears and you're against tax-payer funded education for all fields anyway, so it's a different argument. Just know that the vast majority of lawyers don't go into STEM fields for undergrad and I doubt they'd tell you their education is useless in the courtroom.
Now, we're getting down to what I simply do not understand about your argument: what about specialization makes it a privilege and not a right? We've disagreed about the usefulness of certain degrees in terms of their application in the job market, but we at least agree that higher ed is an absolute necessity for certain fields. Shouldn't this make it even more vital to society? Shouldn't it be at least as necessary an investment for us to make as the years before?
Redditditditdi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:38:38 on July 25, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So they make an investment, which is consenting to the price. It's really as simple as this. They could go to a trade school and earn a great living without going into debt. You pay high prices for an education if you believe your future salary outweighs the debt you will accrue earning the education. Your starving metaphor is silly, because of course there's other options to paying a high price for education.
Don't put words in my mouth. There's plenty of fields I think should be subsidized through scholarship and endowments; but hint, they're all STEM or business related.
The same reasons why not everyone is afforded a scholarship. Costs, abilities/aptitude, number of available positions, etc.
If you're to make this argument, you must do so in terms of economy, since pricing of education is the main topic here. And I beg you to convince me that non-STEM/business related subsidized higher education provides economic benefit to society.
DewayneCW ยท 142 points ยท Posted at 11:26:19 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lol I forgot Americans can't buy booze until 21, that sucks.
bigdaddyteacher ยท 83 points ยท Posted at 11:45:38 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
One state just increased the age to buy cigarettes to 21!
XoYo ยท 124 points ยท Posted at 11:49:11 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That makes a lot more sense. Almost everyone who smokes cigarettes ends up addicted to them. The same isn't true of booze.
Hugginsome ยท 36 points ยท Posted at 12:08:50 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
One can cause the death of others moreso than the other.
Yes there's second hand smoking, but that's the long con. Drunk driving is the immediate killer. And drunk driving for someone inexperienced at being drunk can spell disaster.
MrGestore ยท 38 points ยท Posted at 12:52:37 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well that isn't solved by rise the age limit, but with a better drink culture and not giving driving licenses so easily teaching almost nothing to the soon-to-be 16yo drivers.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:22:03 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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ApparentlyPants ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:19:14 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Uber doesn't do anything that a taxi hasn't been doing for 100 years. They are not a service, they are parasites living off the wealth generated by their employees and customers and providing zero value themselves beyond a fucking map.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:51:06 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:52:46 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Remember, supporting capitalism is counter to the point of this sub. Besides, Uber is one of the worse companies. They skirt labour laws, avoid many penalties, dodge taxes, fight against unions, underpay their workers, reinvent the wheel which has trashed the livelihoods of thousands of taxi drivers, etc.
ApparentlyPants ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:34:55 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What taxi service doesn't come to an exact location? Uber doesn't do anything a taxi doesn't, except track you and sell your data to third parties. Think I'm joking? It's literally true, and that doesn't even get into what that other person mentioned, all of which is true. And yeah, why are you supporting a for profit corporation?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:15:02 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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TNUGS ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:32:46 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
there are other reasons than culture. it's expensive and inefficient to route public transport throughout much of the US. in cities it could definitely be better though.
MrGestore ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:15:26 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And anyway it's not like most of Europe towns besides the big cities are that well connected or served by public transportation, expecially at night.
CrabStarShip ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:01:07 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ftfy
Doesn't matter how experienced you are. Your reflexes and awareness go down really fast even a few drinks in. This is why there are so many drunk driving deaths "I'm an experienced drinker I can make it home!" Nah. If you drink either wait it out or don't fucking drive.
Hugginsome ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:03:27 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Your senses actually go up after a drink. Then they go down.
ggtsu_00 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:13:47 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Driving and texting is just as dangerous as drunk driving. Using that logic, why isn't it illegal minors under 21 to text?
Hugginsome ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:20:00 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
because it's illegal for everyone to text and drive (in some states), just like it's illegal to drive drunk
AequusEquus ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 12:36:55 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And yet again I ask myself why, why not raise the enlistment age to 21? I'd rather an 18 year old purchase smokes than get sent off to war
Hugginsome ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 13:41:53 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's harder to enlist people that already have a career post highschool. It's selfish.
AequusEquus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:44:16 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I know why, I was speaking rhetorically. But yeah, unfortunately you're correct.
Tropical_YT ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 12:28:01 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But drugs are very easy to get, so it evens out
DewayneCW ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:51:09 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Haha, where I live in the UK drugs are also pretty ubiquitous.
stumptme ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 12:35:35 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Can't buy booze? No wonder there's a drug problem.
soon2deleted ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:52:36 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In the US there's information going on that drinking under 21 will mess up your brain.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:15:58 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The other thing people have to remember is that in the USA most cities have horrible public transit and so most people get around by car. Also restaurants and homes tend to be much more spread out than in European or Asian countries. So even though Europeans can drink earlier, there is less risk of them driving drunk since most people live in more congregated areas.
mrbulldops17 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:01:40 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sitting here in Canada and underage drinking at 16, just 2 more years until I don't need other people to by my buy my booze for me.
FlyingSquid ยท 248 points ยท Posted at 10:04:37 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Similarly, I always thought there would be far fewer drunk driving accidents if we swapped the drinking and driving ages in the U.S. You have to learn what drunk is before you understand you shouldn't be it when driving except in the abstract.
JuDGe3690 ยท 243 points ยท Posted at 10:10:10 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's pretty much the system in Germany.
Drinking ages:
13: Can drink nondistilled alcoholic beverages (e.g. beer and wine) with parental supervision/consent.
16: Can drink nondistilled alcoholic beverages without supervision.
18: Can drink any alcoholic beverage, including hard liquor.
Driving:
17: Can get learner's permit.
18: Can get driver's license. Involved significant, expensive instruction and testing.
FlyingSquid ยท 135 points ยท Posted at 10:13:27 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That (unsurprisingly) seems much more sensible than the U.S. where it's-
15: Can get learner's permit.
16: Can get driver's license. Not much involved, one multiple choice test, one 15-minute driving test. If you do it in a small town, you probably won't even have to worry about parallel parking. (I know from experience.)
21: Can drink any alcoholic beverage.
I don't know if it's legal to have alcohol with parental supervision or consent before that. Families do it, but I'm not sure of the legality.
JuDGe3690 ยท 60 points ยท Posted at 10:31:54 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's up to the individual state (hooray for states' rights leading to a patchwork of differing laws!). Some states allow consumption at home with parental consent, others at restaurants with consent; others allow it for religious purposes; some allow it for culinary purposes, e.g. at a culinary school; others have no exceptions to the 21 age.
Source: http://drinkingage.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=002591
FlyingSquid ยท 50 points ยท Posted at 10:34:03 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Cool. My grandparents were criminals.
My grandmother used to give me homemade cherry wine all the time when I was little. I especially loved it when she gave me the wine-soaked cherries that sat in the dregs of the cask. I think it was to keep me quiet. I regret nothing.
drkalmenius ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 12:01:13 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In the U.K. the age is 3 on private property with parental consent.
johnfbw ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 12:49:14 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Pretty sure it's 5 now (since about 2003), I think the 3yo limit was a medical supervision. Cant find proof though
drkalmenius ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:20:33 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ahh right might be. Never really considered it TBH. I first started having little bits of alcohol when I was around 8.
johnfbw ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:11:15 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
which is about the right age to have a shot glass of wine - you fit in with the grown ups, but have a proper kid sized glass
drkalmenius ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:15:53 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yep. I think it's important to do that- it taught me to respect alcohol and drink it responsibly instead of seeing it as out of the way and super cool.
delicate-fn-flower ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 12:43:39 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Texas (because Texas) you can get a "hardship" license at 15, with proof that the burden of transportation will be on you. You can also drink at any age (in public or at home) as long as your guardian is with and watching you.
I remember quite clearly ordering a strawberry margarita for my 15th birthday at Rainforest Cafe. Or floating down the Guadalupe with my own six-pack of wine coolers. I swear that place is like a whole different country.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 11:17:58 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My wife is from South Dakota and could drive by herself at 14 years old.
FOURTEEN.
smittyjones ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 12:15:00 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Imma go out on a limb and say it was a farm permit.
In my state it requires:
Provide properย identification.
Have parental approval if under 16 years old (application must be signed by parent or guardian).
Provide a completedย Farm Affidavitย (Form DE-IB01).
Pass the written test (not required if you completed aย driver's ed class).
Pass the road test (exempt if you completed a state-approved driver education course).
Pass the vision test.
Also you have to live on 20+ acres that's used for agricultural purposes.
And it's not like a farm permit lets you go anywhere. Aside from farm stuff it's basically a learner's permit; to and from school and work (which is the farm) that's about it.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 12:48:34 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Itโs a Restricted Minor Permit. It means 14 year olds can drive by themselves between 6am and 10pm with permission from their parents or guardians.
https://dps.sd.gov/licensing/driver_licensing/teens.aspx
bigpenis23 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:22:54 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My state would allow a permit at 14 intended for farming, but everyone could get it. You didn't need to have any farm identification or anything like that. Then you could get your license in 6 months.
They did end up change that like 4 years ago I believe.
arrow74 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:50:24 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There are 11 people per square mile in South Dakota. Compared to Minnesota (rougly same square mileage) 68 people per square mile. You have a better chance of getting into an accident with 68 people near than 11.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:21:02 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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eternaldoubt ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 13:16:38 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair there is a big difference in population density and public transportation between the US and Europe.
Age restrictions are always an arbitrary choice, never heard of a really elegant solution. Young people will always make questionable choices. Although higher requirements to get a license don't sound like the worst idea.
Criptid ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:06:02 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In Europe cars aren't as important. In the US, you need motorized vehicles just to get to the grocery store in most places, especially cities. Raising driving requirements would make life a lot more inconvenient and expensive than it needs to be. This is also part of the reason why many Americans rely on cars so much and don't use bicycles.
smittyjones ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 12:22:15 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In 2000 they changed it in my state, now you have to "log" 50 hours of driving time before you can get your license at 16. But it's not like it's recorded. My wife didn't have any time behind the wheel and her parents just lied about it. I freaking taught her how to drive when we were dating and she was 19.
runfayfun ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:40:47 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Even better, it's so easy to access alcohol in the US that (at least in my experience) a large number of high schoolers have been drunk before they graduate. So we still have early drinking, but we also let 16 year olds drive independently at the same time.
drkalmenius ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 12:02:48 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
With driving, how often do people fail? In the U.K. most people (considering they have to be at least 17 as well) pass on their 3rd-4th attempt, with passing on the first time being very rare. I was wondering how that compares to the US?
FlyingSquid ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 12:07:38 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I just remembered a funny story. My Dad was English and when he emigrated to America in the 60s, he had to retake the driving test to get an American license. The tester was a major Anglophile and was so busy asking my Dad all about what Britain was like that he didn't even notice that my Dad went up a one-way street the wrong way.
drkalmenius ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 12:10:58 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Great story! Is an Anglophile someone who irrationally loves englismans
FlyingSquid ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 12:11:08 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Essentially, yes.
oohlapoopoo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:08:32 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
what do you call someone who irrationally loves americanmans
FlyingSquid ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:21:54 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ameriphile?
ThisIsVeryRight ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:07:36 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
weird
FlyingSquid ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 12:03:19 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone I know passed the driving test on their first try. If they ever had to go again it was because of failing the multiple choice test and you only have to get something like 70% right.
drkalmenius ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 12:09:58 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wow. The theory is rarely failed here, and it is a Separate component, so if you fail the theory you only have to do the theory again and vice Versa.
dirty_sprite ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:09:48 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
70%?? That seems absurdly low
FlyingSquid ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:29:12 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's a reason there's a lot of terrible drivers in America.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 12:46:57 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
deleted What is this?
unhappyspanners ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:15:24 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Bugger off is passing on the first attempt rare. Most people pass on their second attempt. The majority of the people I went to school with passed on their first attempt.
drkalmenius ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:17:16 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I obviously just know a load of really bad drivers then. I know one person who passed first time this year, a couple on their second, but most on 3rd and 4th.
beoweezy1 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:20:22 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It really depends where you live in the US. I'm in Georgia and grew up in a midsized town. My mom had to sign a sworn statement that I'd driven a certain number of daytime and nighttime hours before I could get my license and I also had to take a drivers education course and do a day long practical driving exam with another student. Basically we drove about 50 miles away to some farm town and back while our teacher rode shotgun. The driving test at the DMV was easier but I still had to park about 4 different ways and drive on the interstate as well as through downtown.
AhrisFifthTail ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:41:20 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In WI we can drink with our parents wherever we want. At 18 in WI we can drink if it's "part of our employment".
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:03:59 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You can drive at 16?? Here in Melbourne you can get your L's when your 16, and then your red P license when your 18 only if you have driven 120 hours with your L's. And you can only have one peer passenger with a red P. It's absolute madness!
FlyingSquid ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:29:42 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's a huge history of high school car culture. Movies like Grease and American Graffiti glorified it.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:57:20 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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drkalmenius ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:00:35 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Pretty similar to U.K.:
3- Can drink alcohol at home with parental consent 16- Can drink a small list of alcoholic beverages with a meal, with consent of a responsible adult at a pub or restaurant. 17- Can get learners permit, have expensive driving lessons, take driving tests until you pass (most people pass on 3rd-4th time), and get drivers license. 18- Can drink any alcoholic beverage anywhere, and can buy alcohol from a shop (though most places now have a 'look 21'- if you don't have ID with you, you have to look 21 to buy the alcohol).
IIRC, you can do your driving Theory test at any point.
Also, there is no age limits for anything after 18.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:56:24 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:04:47 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:59:35 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And at what age prostitutes can legally enter the workforce?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:13:00 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:22:22 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:29:55 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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FlyingSquid ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:30:28 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Now you're just being ridiculous.
tbone11193 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:29:49 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wouldn't do shit. Kids who wanna drink just go drinking whatever age they are. Not that hard
epicause ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:10:54 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Of the people who get into drunk driving accidents, what percent do you think had their first drink before 15?
karanz ยท 115 points ยท Posted at 06:18:07 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But wait doesn't the government hand out Pell Grants!?!?! They do help!!! /s.
Pell Grants used to be able to pay for like 70% of a state college tuition and now it's like 40%. This is also a problem we must address and it's deeper and more of a cultural issue. Ie the onus on sports; it costs hundreds of millions and leaves thousands of those "Student-"athletes in the dust by not furthering anything close to an education.
NostalgiaGoddess ยท 104 points ยท Posted at 09:10:31 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Funny thing is, the US actually HAD Tuition Free State Colleges until the sixties
[deleted] ยท 129 points ยท Posted at 11:17:14 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It amuses me how the people moaning that millennials want stuff to cost less money are the exact people who got a load of free or cheap stuff when they were younger.
DamTheTorpedoes1864 ยท 93 points ยท Posted at 11:48:29 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yep. Baby Boomers:"Got mine already, so fuck you."
ApparentlyPants ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:34:03 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
A very white person attitude.
Whitey McNutsack: make America great again!
Veritas: when was America great?
Whitey: hmmm, good question. I only know I hate the N-word president and I hadn't thought it through any furtherโit is just a propaganda phrase, not designed for logic, can you blame me?
Veritas: no, I understand. The right wing media does your thinking for you. It's hard to escape those delusions, no doubt, loc.
Whitey: so if I have to pick I'd say the 50s.
Veritas: ahhhhh gotcha. Back when the rich were properly taxed and the New Deal framework was helping primarily white people and the South was a terror state for African Americans?
Whitey: exactly! Back when we got ours and they got theirs!
[deleted] ยท 34 points ยท Posted at 11:56:10 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:19:27 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because you used to be able to get great paying jobs with just a high school diploma and one salary could support a family of 4 or 5 people (most women stayed at home with 2 or 3 kids). Now it basically required 2 incomes to afford a home so women have no choice but to work. I understand women's rights, but society was better off when one person works and the other stays home to take care of the house and kids. That other shit is tough and takes a ton of time. Now people have to have a full time job AND they have to take care of house and kids leaving people way more stressed.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:39:15 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:43:10 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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obimk1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:41:53 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You don't know shit about what babyboomers did?
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 11:45:30 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Theyโve created one hell of a legacy.
sophandros ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 12:07:26 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And those tuitions were extremely low until the late 70s.
grimoiregirl ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:51:39 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah but that led to the tune in, turn on, drop out generation.
Sunset96 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:33:32 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
40% of tuition maybe, anything else you're on your own. And housing costs 6k a semester to share a concrete block room with 40 dollars worth of outdoor carpet on the floor, because fuck you.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:33:02 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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RogerDeanVenture ยท 60 points ยท Posted at 12:01:49 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I remember when I turned 18 I had to sign up for the draft, meaning that I could effectively be swept off to fight in a war without my consent... but heaven forbid I drink.
If I had been allowed to drink earlier, I wonder if one of my first experiences with alcohol would have been doing shots of grain alcohol and getting unbelievably fucked up....
CMDR_QwertyWeasel ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:23:13 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
At least alcohol doesn't typically leave you fucked up for more than a day. PTSD, on the other hand...
KJBenson ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:07:11 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why did you have to sign up? (Legitimate question)
yetami ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:50:11 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_Service_System
"Virtually all male U.S. citizens and male immigrant non-citizens between the ages of 18 and 25 are required by law to have registered within 30 days of their 18th birthdays"
KJBenson ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:00:04 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh. Glad I don't live there.
dandaman0345 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:33:00 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The whole point of dropping the voting age to 18 was to prevent draft-age men from being unable to vote. This is a hollow victory for a few reasons, given that most wars begin with bipartisan support and the two-party system and electoral college make your voting rights null and void unless you are either Dem or Republican.
But still, why could we do at least that much for draft age citizens, even though it meant passing an amendment to the constitution, but still be okay with sending non-citizen immigrants to war? I bet boomers are very happy about passing that amendment, but what good has it done if we're still able to draft men who cannot vote?
violenthectarez ยท 55 points ยท Posted at 10:04:23 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Currently at $15,833 in student debt. Interest rate is 1.5%, so no real incentive to pay it off.
MrRandomSuperhero ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 11:00:56 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
~3000 dollars in a decades time. A lot of money, but not a -wow- amount of money over a decade's time.
violenthectarez ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 11:38:11 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, it's actually in Australia under the HELP system. It's 20k AUD which is 15,833 USD. It's interest free but indexed to inflation. It gets reported as a tax debt and is repayed automatically from your income. The more you earn, the higher your rate of repayment. You can earn about 40k a year before you have to repay it.
MrRandomSuperhero ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 11:54:02 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That is a pretty sweet system actually.
In Belgium it is also tax-based, but with an automatic spread. It is ~1000 Euros per year personally (with extra fundings for students who are poor or on their own) and the rest of the cost gets distributed via taxes.
RDwelve ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:27:14 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's less than $16,000.
MrRandomSuperhero ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 11:40:07 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The total?
15.833 x (1+0.015)10 = 18374.84
18.374.84 - 15.833 = (-)2541.84
RDwelve ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 11:45:25 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
15,833 x (1+0.05)10 = 26,000
26,000 - 18,000 = 8000
Wow look, he made 8k profit!!!
MrRandomSuperhero ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:51:40 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Whaat?
Kapital times (1 plus interest) to x amount of years
Your first sum is wrong, it totals 25,790. (at the 5% per year you put in over a ten-year period).
Then you inverted the substraction for some reason? 15.833 - 25.790 = (-)9947
AKA a 9947 dollar cost.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:57:06 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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AutoModerator ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 11:57:07 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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NoOneSeemsToMind ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:22:00 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But if you keep the debt and invest your money instead you will earn way more than 3k in a decades time.
It is almost always a good financial decision to make minimum payments on debt with rates that low.
MrRandomSuperhero ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:37:11 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That is true.
redditors2013 ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 12:09:38 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's an anomaly. Most student loan debt is 4% or higher. I had some. At 8%.
BoBab ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:32:17 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The person is from Australia. That shit is very rare in the States. My highest interest rate on my student loans is like 3.6% and lowest is 3.15%. And I consider myself fucking lucky compared to people I know with 6%+ interest rates.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:55:15 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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redditors2013 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:42:27 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yea he replied to me to say he was. Extremely misleading in a thread about USA student loans
violenthectarez ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:37:14 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nah, it's the way the system works in Australia. It gets reported to the tax office as a debt and is indexed to inflation. It's not really an interest rate.
redditors2013 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:43:23 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Fair enough. The meme is about the USA so everyone will assume you mean you have that low interest rate here..
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:15:25 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why would you ever pay it off with such a low interest rate? Heck, get more of that, and just invest it straight into index funds. 8% return rate on money you got that had an 1.5% interest rate. Overall 6.5% profit.
violenthectarez ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:20:21 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The only reason you pay it off is because you legally have to declare the debt to your employer, and they deduct a percentage of your wages and salary until it's paid off.
There used to be an option to get a 20% bonus for any voluntary payments over $500, but that has gone so no sensible person would ever make a voluntary payment.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:30:53 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh ok, now it makes a bit more sense, but you just pay the minimum that's required then? Btw, couldn't you just theoretically get more loans and just invest it? I know of countries in europe where anyone can get loans if they want, and the interest on those are 0% while you're a student, and when you're out of school the interest rate start, but even then it isn't high, probably max 3%. But couldn't you just take all the loans you wanted even if you didn't need it and just invest it?
violenthectarez ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:33:59 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They aren't loans in that sense. You never get access to the money, when you enrol you opt to 'defer fees' and that debt is transferred to the tax department. Universities are all public and government funded, so money may not even change hands.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:50:26 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Ok so it just automatically pays the tuition? That's not how it works in my country atleast. There's no tuition, just a $50 semester fee you need to pay for, but anyone can get loans if they want to live closer to the university because some people live very far away, they need to loan to get closer. Everyone gets their hand on this money, it's up to them to pay rent, pay for food, etc. People get around $13k a year. I'm pretty sure you could get this loan even if you didn't need it, you lived with your parents right next to the University, not sure if you'd be allowed to invest it though or how that would work. To be eligible for the loan you have to be a full time student though.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:35:07 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Btw how do people who give out these loans make money? Or is it pretty much given that it's a net loss for them? The interest rate they charge or whatever you call it is less than inflation... And if you're a student and you're doing a bachelor + master in 5-6 years, and you don't have any interest rate whatsoever on the loan while you're a student, they lost out on inflation for all those 5-6 years lol.
violenthectarez ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:39:55 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They don't. The universities are government funded, the loans are provided by the government, the government collects the money back through the tax department.
Every year the government statistics department calculates the inflation rate and that gets applied to the loan. This year it was 1.5%, in the past it has been higher or lower.
The inflation indexing applies every year, even while you are still a student.
dirty_sprite ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:14:32 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Can't you just loan a bunch of money and then invest it? Or does it have to be spent on tuition fees
violenthectarez ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:22:30 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
No, you never see the money. All Australian universities (except for one) are public. When you enrol you just tick 'defer fees' and you automatically have the fees linked to your tax file number.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:59:54 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Wtf. I have several loans. 19 total. At least 4 maybe 6 with 6.8% and a balance of anywhere between 2 and 4 grand. My lowest rate is 3.something. And my remaining balance is 45k. I'm also unemployed. Haven't worked in 3 months. And in 2 weeks I'll be unable to make my first student payment since losing the job.
redditors2013 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:47:16 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The person you responded to didn't mention they are in Australia with completely different circumstances.
DCorNothing ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:14:17 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Mine's $65K with a 10 percent interest rate
Boomer1717 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:51:02 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Christ. You need to kill that debt asap
redditors2013 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:47:08 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The person you responded to didn't mention they are in Australia with completely different circumstances.
[deleted] ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 13:20:44 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
College loan debt jokes aren't as funny as when they weren't yet true for me..
rhaa2869 ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 13:57:43 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I just found it funny that there was a story I came across on Reddit a few weeks ago about a Republican congressman who essentially wanted a promise from the Fed that there would never be a student loan bailout. It got me thinking again about how fucked up our country is where we can bailout big banks who were directly responsible for the greatest economic crisis in this country since the Great Depression YET we have a whole generation of college grads who are competing for a small amount of jobs and the ones who get those jobs are paid pretty poorly with shitty benefits (if any benefits). So we have this whole generation wanting to work, have families, buy houses, buy cars, and just pump money into the economy in general but can't do any of that due to their student loan debt. It seems like this has been a massively growing problem the past few years and its not being addressed. I appreciate reps like Bernie Sanders who want to make college free or low cost but thats doing nothing to remedy the present situation. This can't continue to be ignored much longer.
QuantumField ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:05:34 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I think if enough people get loans (and they are) and don't pay them off, the government will forgive loans
Creativation ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 11:46:34 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Can I be conscripted against my will and go off and die in a war for the country?
It has always seemed so stupid that a person could be obliged to fight in a war like Vietnam but not have the right to consume alcohol.
gusty_bible ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 12:32:09 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It took Vietnam to lower the voting age to 18. And even then, there was opposition to lowering it to 18 because "the period of adolescence had grown so substantially rather than in the past when people had more responsibilities at earlier ages.".
People were literally conducting state-sponsored murder at this time in Vietnam at the age of 18 but this cock thought they didn't have enough responsibilities.
Creativation ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 12:36:26 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, as it should be. That push for voting rights should have included the right to drink alcohol. The only counter argument I've heard is that on base soldiers under 21 can drink alcohol but still that is akin to segregation. Only "here" on base can you be a full adult despite the fact that you may die on a battlefield before ever having had the right in your home or public establishment in your country to drink alcohol.
Jack_T_Squire ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:51:26 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The drinking age was 18 at the time. It didn't get raised to 21 until Reagan.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:22:24 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The first part of the sentence alone already seems stup*d (wow there is censorship in this sub?). Why should I be obliged to fight in a hypothetical war for a county if I was never asked to be born and/or raised in that country to begin with? That's about as authoritative as it gets.
Creativation ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 12:25:27 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Of course but the topic on this thread is about what a person can and cannot legally do relative to their age. Also, the ridiculously heavy handed censorship in this sub makes it strangely feel like a sub I have been banned from: r/The_Donald. It is almost certainly curtailing thoughtful discussion.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 11:55:22 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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SocialistNordia ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:26:41 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Is it really that hard to use another term?
csatvtftw ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:53:37 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Can you suggest some "better" terms?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:19:03 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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AutoModerator ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:19:04 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 13:10:56 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
[deleted] ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 15:37:50 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
We would literally block the entrances to campus and camp overnight to block tuition hikes every quarter. The media and adults I worked with would say we are a bunch of babies, entitled, etc. . Fuck all those people.
KRMcNamee ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 13:19:23 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
$50,000? Only going to college for a year?
RandomGuy1_15 ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 14:32:15 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thats how much my school costs. $50k each year or ~60k for on-campus. Lucky for me, i'm on full scholarships!!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:02:25 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
deleted What is this?
Skensis ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:41:28 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Really? Half of my public schools students had their tuition covered by financial aid.
JMoc1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:21:06 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They must be going to some pretty cheap schools. Financial aid only covers a portion of my 16k a year schooling.
Skensis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:00:11 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
University of California system.
thesmellofregret ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:35:47 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Private schools.
KRMcNamee ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:09:07 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant that 50K will only cover one year at many schools.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 12:33:09 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Was over 100k for me. 10 years later, 60k to go! Was it worth it? So far yes. But, if I'm ever unemployed that debt will be the concrete block tied to my ankle.
kyousaya4life ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 13:24:53 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
$50,000? That's less than one year at a lot of places, try $250,000
wellthatsucks826 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:17:13 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thats also a lot more than a lot places. I pay 8k a year.
QuantumField ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:03:36 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Same!
3.6k per semester
thelastpizzaslice ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:13:21 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Don't worry. We'll base our estimate of your ability to pay for this on your parents income, regardless of whether you're estranged from them or the fact you're clearly the age of majority at this point and they have no financial responsibility for you.
ApparentlyPants ยท 82 points ยท Posted at 06:05:52 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
People who insist on doing things that are extremely expensive in the US are some of the ones who annoy me the most. I have extra vitriol for anyone who lectures me about how I need to take care of my body or how important school is. They are the same people who would tell you how important it is to take on that $500,000 debt in order to pave the road to your house; kinda similar to the gatekeepers of the world, just a certain kind of parasitic quality as they speak for power.
The_Polite_Debater ยท 89 points ยท Posted at 10:49:18 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, you do have to take care of your body
huskersax ยท 41 points ยท Posted at 11:13:25 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hey, what happens between me and my sleeve of fig newtons is none of your business.
NetworkingEnthusiast ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:23:55 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hmmm I love some newtons. Figged of course.
KJBenson ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:05:52 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I eat fig newtons by the sleeve
bmccormick1 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:28:42 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And education is pretty important too
ApparentlyPants ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:23:12 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Fucking trolls. I mean, you do have to drive on paved roads.
[deleted] ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 11:48:52 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
TheLaw90210 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:29:57 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Irritatingly, the state decided that it would ignore my DNR wishes and spend over ยฃ100k on reviving me into a miserable existence. And then they refuse to give me enough painkillers for the pain the surgeries have left me with. I hate the fact that I don't have control over my fucking body and it has been butchered by them without my consent.
ApparentlyPants ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:21:34 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I recommend going to a psychiatrist and informing them that you are desperate and don't know what to do and have no other choice but to kill yourself if you don't receive the help that you need. My friend was able to get enough painkillers after she started refusing dialysis in order to get pain meds because they literally wouldn't give her anything for what she was asking for unless she was dying. It might work if you go into an actual medical facility and tell them that you are literally going to kill yourself because you cannot function in the world in painโI know I can't myself, I take suboxone to deal with chronic pain.
TheLaw90210 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:29:17 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you. I've booked an appointment with my GP and I'm going to tell him this. Very sincerely I appreciate your advice. I hope you are doing well.
wldd5 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:55:44 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Take care of your body, dude. Healthy lifestyle choices help everyone.
ApparentlyPants ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:10:47 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, hilarious. Except who I am talking about are the superfluous assholes who lecture you about paying out of pocket for expensive medical procedures, dude.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:07:17 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
ApparentlyPants ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:14:12 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, I hate the human intellect and am willfully ignorant about the world because I cannot stand elitism. Go fuck off to a subreddit that allows treason so you can keep writing your superfluous comments.
CoastalSailing ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:26:14 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's nothing elitest about getting the best education you can afford. Do you want a surgeon to operate on your grandfather who had a shitty education and graduated bottom of his class?
Looking outside of the American healthcare paradigm my point stands.
Being well educated and good at something doesn't make you elitest, just highly skilled, and being skilled and intelligent is something everyone should aspire to.
fishareavegetable ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 12:01:58 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
My debt might be a lot more than that. Let's just say that if they kill Public Service Loan Forgiveness I'll literally be ok their doorstep protesting.
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 12:47:17 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I've always found (and continue to find) the USA's faith in expensive, shiny paper to be perplexing.
To the point that many Americans i speak to tell me "you can't get a good job without a degree" and when i prompt them about career choices, i'm often told that it doesn't necessarily matter what kind of degree it is and it's not always necessary that it's in any way relevant to the work you apply for.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:20:38 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It sucks, but that's really how it is.
Heflix ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:08:03 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's perplexing but also reality here. The degree is the easy part, the 3 years experience for $14/hr is what's hard
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:02:14 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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AutoModerator ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:02:14 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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reddington17 ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 11:41:18 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Young man/woman, alcohol is very dangerous and should only be consumed by those old enough to do so responsible. Having said that, we are now offering up to $150,000 for degrees in art, history, and literature. Sign here.
slowblinking ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 13:29:19 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But you can get addicted to cancer sticks that cost more than a car payment to supply each month. Oh, and you can die for your country, 17- if your parents sign a waiver like mine did.
Pythnator ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:45:22 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
By doing porn obviously. You can get fucked on camera before having a drink in the States.
3301MK_Jackel ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:08:33 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The US is a global embarrassment
DasHossBoss ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:23:36 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Can you go to war, yes. Can you be a member of law enforcement, yes. Can you fight fires, or be in charge of someone'a life in the back of an ambulance, yes. But god forbid you have a drink at he end of the day.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:09:43 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Police departments almost always have an age requirement of 21. Same with Fire Fighters
DasHossBoss ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:13:44 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, I got hired as a FF EMT at 19.
harrymuana ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:40:49 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Meanwhile in Belgium, people are angry because the cost for studying (uni or college) one year increased from $700 to $1000.
dessalines_ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:54:57 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And its going to keep getting worse. Bourgeois democracy ain't going anywhere unless you overthrow it.
TopPlaceWin93 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:11:35 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I was once refused sale of a pair of scissors at a hobby shop when I was 20.
So I got back in my car I pay for with the money I earnt as a full time heavy machinery driver and drove home defeated.
Logic, what are those
excelerater1 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:03:46 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
and in NJ you are not old enough to buy cigarettes
Awearyman ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:35:24 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Can I go to germany and get a free education?
Germany: yes, you can. We encourage it.
USA: no. We need your debt so we can collect interest on it, this also allows us to take loans out on youre debt and collect interest on it as well.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:15:04 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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dessalines_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:42:14 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Banned for "muh personal responsibility" .
Edit: A PM I got from this user:
lamabaronvonawesome ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:55:35 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Can I die for you? Yea, but you can't smoke weed.
Zero_Gh0st85 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:14:36 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If you apply to a skilled trades union, not only will you be paid during your 3 to 5 year apprenticeship, there is a good chance that your journeymen's wage will be over 30 per hour. Oh, and a pension. Do young people today even know what a pension is? It was the retirement benefit plan before baby Boomers decided it costs too much and came up with the cheaper 401k
_Aaronstotle ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:39:06 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Community college then transferring is the best move. Save money and get to go to a better school
ishkabibble0215 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:24:22 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
'Merica! Lol
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:47:24 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
skip the tuition and just say you got a degree at 22
Jabulon ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:10:05 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
you can die in war too right?
StonersForBoners ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:19:57 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, it takes about 4 years to get $50k in student debt, so you'd be 22 or 23 by the time you were that deep. EDIT: Forgot that Americans have to wait till 21, nevermind your system sucks.
Nokthar ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:20:52 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
How do you deal with being 50k in debt and no alcohol?
PaleBlueDotLit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:07:42 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nailed it
SoNoizy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:48:38 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is why I would never go to college in the USA. London here I come. ยฃ9,000 a year.
Zero_Gh0st85 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:11:39 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Well if you don't want debt there is the GI Bill. Go serve your 4 years during active wartime.
Okay, I can't buy alcohol at 18 so how old do I have to be to drive a tank around Afghanistan?
US government - 18
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 11:44:11 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 12:30:41 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Alcohol is 'bad' for everyone. The government shouldn't act as a nanny state and ban things from adults just because it's 'bad for you'.
grimoiregirl ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 11:53:15 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Actually it should probably be 26, since that's when the brain stops developing.
Zeduxx ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 13:01:40 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That would turn people over to drugs and weed, both with even worse effects on not yet fully developed brains.
Gearthquake ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:42:00 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Bruh, weed is way healthier than alcohol or cigarettes. Are you serious?
ggtsu_00 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:21:41 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
this is bait
illonlyusethisonceok ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:24:29 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe people shouldn't have to bankrupt themselves to get an education? Maybe we shouldn't be forced to be part of an exploitative system where the only options are earn or die? But nah, that's too radical. The billionaires obviously know what's best
dessalines_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:43:17 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Banned for "no one is forcing you to go to college, stop complaining!"
kaiserj1982 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:58:05 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I paid around $7000 for my 2 years at the vocational college in my town 14 years ago. Go for the 2 year degrees.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:51:39 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Or just go for a degree where you learn a valuable skill. Trade school is also very good.
kaiserj1982 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:53:25 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Very true.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:23:07 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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yourenotserious ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:16:15 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Pay tens of thousands for four years, or get paid tens of thousands for four years and get licensed. Then make real money. Goddammit if i'd started as an electrical apprentice right out of high school i'd be better off in every way. And good luck automating electrical. Or plumbing. Or really the service side of any trade. Accountants will all be outsourced in ten years. Engineering jobs are moving to India. Business/management degrees are largely useless. Licensed tradesmen can make $60k/year if theyre in any decent area.
quantum-mechanic ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 13:14:18 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Is this post saying that you should wait until you are older and can afford your education out of your cash savings until you go to university?
lobst3rclaw ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:39:31 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
definitely not. this subreddit would never advocate for personal responsibility
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 11:58:31 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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neko_ceko ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 12:39:31 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
For profit education is a negative externality.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 10:35:39 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 67 points ยท Posted at 10:45:01 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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Alpha433 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:55:24 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What is a Pell Grant?
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:00:24 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Bruh, I moved across the country with nothing to my name and I'm going to be in a college next year, each semester is $3000 and I work full time. It's not hard.
[deleted] ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 15:21:38 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 15:24:41 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Where do you live where rent is $1100? You're paying way beyond your means. Rent should take up 1/3 of your take home, AT MOST.
Also for two people? I assume you're a couple, so you should be splitting the bills, don't be a sucker.
Shockblocked ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:11:50 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Mah bootstraps
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:47:28 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Gee, which type of gender are you? an otherkin?
Shockblocked ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:45:25 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Whichever one's fucking your mom.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:07:08 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 12:21:00 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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crudehumourisdivine ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:25:53 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
bad off enough to need help but not bad enough to get it, its a shitty place
[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 11:10:32 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 45 points ยท Posted at 11:21:17 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In what world can a child under 18 save up $60,000+. Even my wife who comes from a pretty wealthy family had to take out loans, she had scholarships, and worked a few places through college.
You can, but it's not guaranteed that people will get them. These things often benefit the privileged in the first place anyway.
Sure, but the programs they offer might not be worth the time. It is better than nothing, but with such a focus on prestigious institutions and programs in the United States, community colleges get scoffed at.
In what world can most people afford to pay for tuition, books, accommodation, and food.
There is literally no other choice. If somebody wants to go to college in the United States of America, they will probably have to spend a lot of money on it. That will either come from family because they're wealthy, or it'll come from loans + part-time jobs.
the_walking_bud ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 11:51:20 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't see how scholarships and grants go to the privileged. And in what world do you need 60k for a degree. Community college plus 2 years at a university can be less than 30k. And let's say you are dirt poor, you can get the Pell Grant which entitles you up to 6,000 a year.
All I'm saying is that it's not black and white and there are alternatives. I know this because I went to community college, got the pell grant, and worked through college.
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 12:03:17 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 12:43:32 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 15:03:21 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Can someone tell me where this 60,000$ figure is coming from? It's not all at once either.
Min wage makes 15k a year. 60/15 = 4 years of salary to pay for college/bachelors degree. If you're smart, you'll work while going to college.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:31:56 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Youโre forgetting about taxes and the fact that... you canโt work full-time on minimum wage and go through college.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:26:35 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You'll only be taxed at 15% for such low wages, which still makes about 13k take home. It's completely possible, but you'd have to spread out your semesters to save up.
Rivka333 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 15:00:16 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Minimum wage doesn't even allow you to support yourself at poverty level without government assistance.
The big argument I keep seeing against raising minimum wage-or sometimes even against having one-is that teenagers and college students shouldn't be paid more.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 11:44:00 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 11:51:49 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 13:08:17 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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grimoiregirl ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 11:54:50 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Nah. We want our stuff back. It already belongs to us, we built it.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 12:16:56 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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DryZebra ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 13:00:00 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
We want what they stole from our labor. The system we live in is already slavery. Both metaphorically and literally.
If you don't see how a majority of the value you create is taken from you, sold, and given to an ever smaller group of capitalist class exploiters, them you're just blind, or love the taste of licking boots.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:49:59 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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DryZebra ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:23:22 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Because slavery is bad. The fact that I need to point this out to you is very telling of how short this conversation is going to be.
Even if we assume that collusion doesn't exist, and inheritance doesn't real, I don't steal from people and I don't want to steal from people. You're contradictory concern trolling, first pleading for the end of theft, then saying theft sounds like a good deal is also very telling of your generally manipulative personality. Let me put it simply,
Theft is bad. Slavery is bad. I don't care how hard you believe billionaires worked to earn their daddy's trust fund, owning people is bad.
Edit, I read the rest of your dribble and want you to know I'm doing fine with my electrical union, and CiT work.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:34:10 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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DryZebra ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:02:44 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly what I thought, you and your piece of shit Ideology don't care about theft or slavery, you just want to lick the mud off the boot of your master and use the police to make anyone who refuses. I don't have anything to prove to you, your projections don't mean anything to me.
Yeah, you did miss that part didn't you, or maybe you're just intentionally ignoring the fact that without being forced into wage slavery you would die at the hands of the Capitalist enforcers (police) for not paying your taxes, or you would just starve to death. Go love your boss somewhere else.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:16:36 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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DryZebra ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:30:46 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You don't even know what Socialism is. Go read something, start with the Principals of communism. Fuck your capitalist taxes, and your reactionary fake "libertarian" garbage.
You don't know anything about Venezuela except from what Breitbart lies straight to your face about. The Bolivarian government isn't the ones literally burning food meant for the people..
You think Capitalists are just going to let socialism happen? You think they don't fund the state to enforce their shitty rules? Capitalists love the state. How else could they fund military juntas and coups in resource rich countries so they can swoop in with their company and suck them dry for profit?
If you want to abolish taxes, you've got to abolish Capitalism.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:09:52 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 12:19:57 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:24:56 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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Rivka333 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:02:26 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is /r/LateStageCapitalism, not /r/socialism.
While most of the people here do support some level of socialism, the main thrust of this sub isn't promoting that, but rather mocking and criticizing the current system.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:49:58 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Most of my friends have graduated, or are graduating from University soon. None of them want anything for free, they are just really concerned about being in tens of thousands of dollars of debt.
There's a huge difference.
[deleted] ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 12:07:55 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 12:18:58 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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OkieDokieArtyChokie ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:41:17 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
95%+ of the jobs in the military are in non-combative roles. It's not a bad gig. I got to travel the world, participate in humanitarian efforts, and volunteer opportunities I wouldn't of been able to otherwise. I don't know why this sub paints it as a job that all you're doing is slaying bodies and dodging bullets on a daily basis, because that isn't the case at all. You're far more likely to die in a car crash or disease than in the military.
On top of the GI bill, a lot of positions get your foot in the door for civilian jobs. I've had quite a few friends get out (aviation field) and land jobs paying ~$65-80k a year base salary. Reenlistment in the state of Texas grants you access to the Hazelwood Act, which is further assistance for service members/veterans.
[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 12:53:41 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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OkieDokieArtyChokie ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:40:14 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I find that highly unlikely, at least in today's military. Most personnel are never even in the vicinity of a combat zone. The amount of service members who have even deployed is dwindling away. The amount that have been in a combat zone is less than 1%. The amount that have killed is even less than that 1%.
Statistics show you're more likely to die in a car crash as a service member. I can understand not wanting to join, but the information you've provided is pretty skewed and doesn't resemble any truth of what the military is actually like.
AtTheEndOfMyLine ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:24:01 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What jobs did they have in the Navy where they were in combat scenarios?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:43:52 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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AtTheEndOfMyLine ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:49:56 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
And a ship mechanic got involved in combat?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:16:29 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I understand if the military isn't for you- it's not for everyone and that's completely ok! Another option is the Coast Guard. They'll give the GI Bill and tuition assistance, and your primary job would be to serve the public as a first responder of sorts.
Rivka333 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:05:10 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I have scholarships and a job and loans.
Scholarships covered part of my tuition. My minimum wage job covers only part of my living expenses. (I'm on food stamps, and an extended family member is helping with rent. My parents can't support me). Loans were necessary to cover the rest of my tuition.
Rivka333 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:58:44 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Who's being forced to drink?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:14:12 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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dessalines_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:49:12 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Education is a business like any other. It absolutely had to do with capitalism.
murrayvonmises ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:29:06 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It is a business - subsidized by the government. The proper term is mixed economy.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 12:50:02 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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dessalines_ ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:22:08 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Banned for "muh personal responsibility."
Machiavellian3 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:31:09 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I forgot education was a legal drug that leads to intoxication and causes serious health problems
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:06:15 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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inyrface ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:08:14 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
maybe not the first but definitely the second
dessalines_ ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:21:09 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yes it is. Education is a business, and the state is happy to charge interest off student loans, while making sure the ppl who run the education business get rich.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:19:12 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Is there a subreddit for anti european capitalism? Because this sub seems to be only usa related
Salivon ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 13:39:07 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Are you forced to have that college debt? You could always you know, not go to college. Or go to community college and work. Or vocational school.
Your history/feminist dance therapy/gender studies degree wouldn't help you get a job anyway
dessalines_ ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 15:23:06 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Banned for "muh personal responsibility."
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:59:58 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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AutoModerator ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:59:58 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:51:56 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:17:34 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There is no sense in banning people at 18 years of age from drinking. It's not like it's stopping anyone anyways.
Well if you spend the money on a good education, odds are that you can pay it back very quickly, for example as a mechanical engineer (which I should say is a fairly demanding thing to study). Now, if you spend your loan studying something that has very limited career opportunities at sub-optimal pay, like history, art, gender studies or what other what other hobbies people may have, then you've just spend 50k for your own, private entertainment. People don't get that and then they can't pay back their debt. The US squeezes everyone through a one-school-fits-all system and allows wildly unqualified people to go to universities and this may eventually cost the US dearly.
The only difference between the two is that people actually still trust you to make an informed decision when it comes to your career.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:31:21 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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AutoModerator ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 11:31:21 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Your post was removed because it contained a slur. If you wish to have your post reinstated, please edit it to remove the slur, and then report this comment (it will not be automatically approved when changed). If you want to know why you can't use slurs on LSC, please read this. If you don't know which word was a slur, you should have a message from me in your inbox with the word contained.
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[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:44:33 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:04:26 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:13:17 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:34:34 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Paperwash is hysterical
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:36:28 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
See "Folk Learning School"
Shifters64 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:46:04 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Meanwhile in the U.K when you're 18 you go into debt because of alcohol
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:50:39 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:18:07 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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nyx_on ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:37:01 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Mechanical society. If you obey and work hard enough, your family will be able to afford your funeral - now that's a life goal!
https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2015/07/29/chart-see-20-years-of-tuition-growth-at-national-universities
Xynatox ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:11:38 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Juxtaposition is interesting. Too bad the other voting options are cropped out. Would have been interesting to see if there were only two options or if there were more, and how many votes they got by percentage comparison
rainbowc8t ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:12:11 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Can I drink yet? WHAT NO Can I rent a car yet? HELL NO Can I smoke yet? That's absurd Can I join the military gives gun
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:21:36 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, I can understand why the legal drinking age is 21 in the US. You would never catch me at an 18+ bar if they existed here. With that being said, getting booze would've just been much quicker as an 18 yr old.
PM_FOR_SNUGGLES ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:55:09 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'd like to see that poll under the tweet
CoolDude1564 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:47:05 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There ya go
FlyingSquid ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:51:28 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
51% over $50,000 in debt. What a ridiculously unsustainable system.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:57:33 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:05:47 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:18:44 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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spookylake ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:24:00 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
to be fair, alcohol is known to mess with developing brains. The earlier the worse, but which lasts all the way until you're 25. So though the law was not made from being informed by science, but viewed in that context it doesn't look too bad
raumgras ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:58:35 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I remember driving to community college in 2008, listening to snippets of GW Bush on NPR radio and deciding, "this shit is a trap."
Now I make 2.77 USD an hour as a server, no school debt though.
superhotbacon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:29:40 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Hahah except that in the post under it 49 percent of students were under 25k
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:36:17 on July 27, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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Bill135 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:36:17 on October 22, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
120k for me
bigdaddyteacher ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:44:19 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To make this worse; Alabama just increased the legal age for buying cigarettes to 21!
DCorNothing ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 12:15:37 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You can at least make a case for that being reasonable
lungabow ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 12:35:15 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why?
If you're a legal adult at 18, you can surely make decisions for yourself like whether you want to smoke or not.
Edit: I don't understand reddit. It loves weed and other drugs, but hates cigarettes, like most drugs aren't more dangerous than them anyway. Weed certainly is for those under 25.
DCorNothing ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 12:43:37 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
They're a hell of a lot more* addicting than alcohol
lungabow ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 12:52:25 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Don't you mean more addictive?
Otherwise I can't make heads nor tails of your point.
Still, it doesn't matter to me, if you're of age you should be allowed to buy anything you want.
In the UK it's 16 to be allowed to smoke in public places, and 5 to be allowed to drink in private ones. 5 is obviously too young, by anyone over the age of about 15-16 should have the autonomy to make those decisions for themselves.
DCorNothing ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:54:41 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, meant more
TheHaddockMan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:18:11 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's 18 to buy them though right? As an over 18 year old who doesn't smoke it's not really a detail I remember
lungabow ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:23:47 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, 18 to buy, 16 to smoke publicly. I don't think there's a legal minimum age to drink publicly at all.
Tropical_YT ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 12:28:45 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Good, my mom, grandma, aunt, and brother all died from lung cancer from cigs
Hugginsome ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:09:16 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It was New Jersey. Or did they both just do it?
Yungdadyy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:47:53 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Dont want student loans? Dont get one. Same logic as thr " dont like gay marriage? Dont have one "
Gaesatae_ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:32:03 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Foolproof! All these people with huge student loans must just love being in debt. What other reason could there be?
Turbo1928 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:31:38 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
There's also the fact that military service is something that you choose to do, and drinking before 21 can affect brain growth.
theredwoodcurtain ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:07:58 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You've exactly described the point of the meme, good job!
18 year old brains are not fully developed, as acknowledged by the 21 year drinking age, but those same underdeveloped brains are allowed to make major decisions that can put them in crippling debt, or like you mentioned, get shipped off to kill for corporate interests abroad. PTSD is also bad for brain growth.
tehbluehero1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:30:48 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
But Alcohol IS a dangerous drug and can harm and ruin your life, while if you go to college you can get the experience, education, and training for the career of your choice.
theredwoodcurtain ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:04:27 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Are you suggesting debt can't harm or ruin a life?
tehbluehero1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:07:18 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I did not say that, but what I am saying is that this post undermines the fact that alcohol ruins lives and kills people. With a right savings plan and hard work, debt can be avoided (this is difficult though)
shithead33 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:09:53 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think 50000$ of debt has the same potential to kill someone as being intoxicated or buzzed
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:14:47 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I'm seeing some Libertarian sympathy here. Why not have the right to do both?
lonewolf4791 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:12:27 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
as his poll shows half of people owe less than half that
CynicallyMe ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:36:38 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
While I understand the sentiment, the reason alcohol should be restricted to 21, or even higher, is that your frontal lobe is still going through myelination. This is the process of enhancing or speeding up your brain processes related to problem solving,memory, judgment, and other important functions.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:59:28 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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yourenotserious ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:17:29 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
If I'd started working in the trades out of high school I'd be making $60k/yr right now.
Tuffy_the_Wolf ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:26:11 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Get a real degree or actually care in high school and you can get into a decent university for a decent price and earn a degree that will get you employed. Nobody wants to pay for or cares about the 5 years you spent to get a degree in "social justice" or history.
DeadBabyDick ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:30:05 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What's the issue with this student debt stuff? It's perfectly reasonable to work your way through college. Just because you got into a super expensive school, doesn't mean you have to go. Plenty of really good instate public places to attend in every state that won't plunge you into debt.
greendaylover666 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 14:26:08 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Lol nobody is encouraging you to spend 50k for a 30k salary. Learn a trade.
FlyingSquid ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:54:07 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You mean apart from the endless "go to college" propaganda kids and their parents are hit with?
kramjr ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:14:11 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Cool. Two completely unrelated things being compared.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:06:35 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
deleted What is this?
null_sum ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:59:57 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This is absolute crap. How can you compare buying alcohol to getting an education?That very fucking education will make sure you have money to buy alcohol later on. So letting people borrow money for education isnt bad. Sucking at life and not being able to pay it back is.
DrippingYellowMadnes ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:31:36 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Are you up to date on what's happening in the US?
realclickclick ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 13:19:26 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Sooo true
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 13:39:20 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When I was 18, the state I lived in (AZ) changed the drinking age from 19 to 21. Doesn't matter though I'd already been drinking for 5 years and smoking pot for 6. Take that, the Man!
[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 13:44:32 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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illonlyusethisonceok ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:26:08 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I remember when I was brainwashed by the bourgie swine.
Herpinheim ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 12:59:40 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I like memeing as much as the next guy, but the 21 drinking age limit is due to biological reasons. Drinking can inhibit natural brain development, which it is still doing at 18. 21 sees the average person's brain mostly fully developed, though it won't be "fully" developed until 24.
theredwoodcurtain ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:03:23 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You've exactly described the point of the meme, good job!
18 year old brains are not fully developed, as acknowledged by the 21 year drinking age, but those same underdeveloped brains are allowed to make major financial decisions that can put them in crippling debt for years.
mangmere ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:01:57 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
So riddle me this, if the drinking age in the US creates better developed brains how is it still just as fucked up as the rest of western society?
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 13:43:31 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:28:45 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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kalez238 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:51:45 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
When my dad came out of the marines and tried to get a job, he was told his degrees were invalid.
Un1337ninj4 ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 15:09:03 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
You're gonna have to get me some details mate. This probably wasn't a problem with The Marines. As far as I could tell there'd be a storm about such a controversy but can't find anything.
Where and when did he get the degree?
What and where was he applying to?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:46:43 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Un1337ninj4 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:59:07 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I have no idea how to interpret this statement, where it came from, or why it exists.
greendaylover666 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:27:36 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That's the point. He has no argument
[deleted] ยท -17 points ยท Posted at 11:30:25 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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theAVP ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 11:57:53 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
What the hell is a "hardcore liberal"? Also, your comment looks like it was supposed to be a reply but isn't. Unless you were criticising the post's argument?
Besides that, the people in this post certainly aren't the reason you should be ashamed of being American. You have other things to worry about.
GlobTwo ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 11:40:23 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's a human thing. Has nothing to do with your nationality, my friend.
SocialistNordia ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 13:21:23 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Were not liberals. The word "liberal" implies support for capitalism, and we often criticise liberals here. We're socialists.
There are tons of debate subs if you're dying for that sort of thing. That's not this sub's purpose. Every ideology has a sub just for them. Debating socialism is something which has multiple subs dedicated to it. This sub isn't one of them.
Why do you assume everyone here is an American? A lot aren't. And by the way, most Americans here are anti-nationalists, who don't consider themselves loyal to the American state either.
DamTheTorpedoes1864 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 12:23:18 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
I used to be like you, thinking these safe-space liberals were just soft and infantile.
Now I understand their reasoning: why engage with their antagonists at all? Half of them are just out to makes others upset, angry and miserable. As soon as you pay them any attention at all, they win. Besides, arguing online has (almost) never change anybody's mind.
So the safe-spacers disengage, seek echo chambers where they will always feel good. Avoid pain, seek pleasure; who doesn't do that?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:34:58 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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AutoModerator ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:34:58 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
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SomeGuyCommentin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:39:23 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
To be forced to identify with some group, some "-ism", being presented with a list of words an expressions that you arent allowed to use.... ironically, this is, too, a symptom of "the social, moral and ideological decay of western capitalist culture".
You cant just be someone that is just bothered by living in an mad society, you have to identify what the conform subgoup of people that are bothered by the same things as you is.
Any "malicious capitalist oppressor" that would go here and see the Automoderator message would have a good chuckle.
kikanshat0masuu5sr ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:00:24 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This isn't hard to understand at all. Nation founded off Christian sects and die what would now be seen as libertarian thought. Religion said watch the booze. Neighbors said if you want it work for it. Besides you don't have to pay $50k if you don't want to go to college.
Deathcon1337 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:54:43 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Why try to get an education that will put you into debt? Isn't there work that doesn't require that?
yungsludge ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:34:47 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
This entire subreddit is an echo chamber
LegitStrela ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:53:47 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
HA
MiniCooperFace ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:05:25 on July 24, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
It's your choice if you are going to further your education or not. Don't blame it on society when you go in debt.
SCOTTISH_STORY_TIME ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 11:50:09 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Obvious solution would be to stop people from going that much in debt with higher restrictions on who can exactly take out that much money for a loan.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 12:32:30 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
That may limit higher education to the upper classes and that would be a problem. I think a loan should be bound to the person's performance in school, what major they want to pick and how likely he/she is to find a job in that field afterwards and the median salary within the first few years. This way we'd also take care of a different problem: we'd finally get rid of things like gender studies courses - things that don't really belong on university campus. We may as well offer courses on Magic The Gathering. Inb4 someone says that this is/was an actual thing.
DrippingYellowMadnes ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:30:42 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Better solution: Free college.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:15:29 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
We'll sooner understand dark matter, than the US government understands the value of free education, so let's stick with realistic scenarios.
DrippingYellowMadnes ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:16:18 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I mean, the idea of a country without a king is totally outrageous.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:55:40 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
In some places it still is and continues to be so, in the same way that other countries have a working social system with financial aid for the poor, universal health care and free tuition, while the US probably won't have anything like that any time soon.
DrippingYellowMadnes ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:57:50 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
The degree to which you missed the point is astounding.
Ewan_Robertson ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 13:50:00 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
european here, 0โฌ student debt so far lel
dirtyrustplayer ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:19:02 on July 23, 2017 ยท (Permalink)
Funny how the title is generally the right question for the post