EVEWY WULD IS DEFIGHNED BAHY ITS PARTCHULAWR BOUNDAWRIES WITHIN WITCH SOME UDASTANDING OF WREALITY EMEGES AS TOOTH! TWO TWOOTHS CAN NOT COEXISHT AND STHO FROM THE INTRODUCTIONCHTION OF FOWEIGHN BODIESH IS CONFLICKT AND KAOS SPAWNED! THAT'SH WHY WE WIMIT OUWR INVOWVEMENT IN LOCAWL AFFAIWRES!
I mean, he has 11 of himself, so split the bill isn't a big issue
[deleted] · 208 points · Posted at 00:07:43 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
And yet, they never minimize their involvement. Their first world visit involved Sora trying to stop a girl from being executed without any actual knowledge of the world or the circumstances.
In Port Royal, SDG are trying to figure out why only Jack was cursed by the Heartless they fought. They come to the conclusion that its because they're from another world. This conversation happens like 2 feet away from Jack.
He says something like "Quit yammering mates!" So yeah, he hears them. It's actually pretty funny how they stopped caring by KH2.
When Hercules asks who was that guy who stole the medal needed for the Underworld, Sora straight up tells him who Organization XIII is. Sora also plays around with the idea of becoming king of Pride Lands even though they're not supposed to meddle.
Space Paranoids is different. It's not a different world in the same sense that the others are. Jafar was also acting using outside knowledge and explicitly trying to destroy the world via the keyhole, which was in their jurisdiction to stop. Santa was also under threat of being turned into a heartless, which was the main goal there.
It seems to me though that they are allowed to interfere to some extent, at least to the point that they reasonably could interfere if they were denizens of the world itself. Trying to stop an unfair trial is something Sora would have done anyway, regardless of if he was from the world or not.
What it seems they aren't allowed to do is take people from their own worlds or introduce items and information to the citizens that they wouldn't otherwise have access to. Other people have pointed out how they also fail at that at times though.
The way I see it is that Sora generally isn't allowed to interfere except to correct something the Organization or the Heartless have messed up. (After all, he's the only one who can correct it.) Wonderland was simply Sora recognizing that the Heartless apparently attempted to make the Queen into a Heartless.
Throughout KH1, Sora and the others actively avoid saying where they're from, and, since most of the worlds in KH2 are revisiting KH1 worlds (or, in the case of Simba and Mulan, revisiting old friends), citizens of the world they're visiting simply never really have to ask where they came from again, or they already know that other worlds exist (such as with Queen Minnie or, to a certain extent, Tron).
I will admit that he does sometimes try to skirt around the rules, like with wanting to help Santa or becoming King of Pride Rock, but Santa obviously already knew other worlds existed because he's Santa, and Sora was stopped dead in his tracks with his plans on becoming the king.
As for the other protagonists in the series (Terra, Ventus, and Aqua), they never reveal that they're from another world, and the only reason they interfere in other worlds is to get rid of the Unversed which are messing up the worlds. (The exact same reason Sora interferes in other worlds.) There are a couple exceptions to this. When Terra reveal that there are other worlds out there to Riku, he only does so after making sure he's fit to wield a keyblade by questioning him about his motivations, and Aqua only puts a spell on Kairi because she recognizes that Kairi is someone special "we're supposed to protect." Ventus, being somewhat naive, actually meant to break the rules by making friends. (The other keyblade wielders simply made friends as an unavoidable consequence of their undoing what the enemy, whether it was the Unversed, the Organization, or the Heartless, had done.)
It was only ever a 'thing' because Disney didn't want the characters to truely interact and develop. Especially in 2002 (with obviously them becoming more lax with things like Wreck-It Ralph 2 in recent years).
Aurora and Cinderella can't interact because they don't belong to the same narrative world. Same goes for Tarzan and Treasure Planet. Its a crossover in name only at this point because the worlds never interact (only barely in the first game and never after) and the narrative had to grow characters, plot, and lore outside of the actual Disney worlds because none of them could ACTUALLY be used.
This is why it feels so arbitrary at times. The plot had to allow SDG to interact with the worlds to bring up, well, conflict, plot, and a game. But they couldn't let the worlds interact with eachother in any meaningful capasity. Hence why the rule really only ever seems to get actually enforced with bringing the characters to other worlds and handwaved away when it comes to SDG getting involved in the world.
At this point, the Disney Worlds feel almost like a trite artifact and that makes me a bit sad at the wasted potential.
It's not much but the princesses kind of interact at Hollow Bastion after you beat Maleficent. Aurora and Cinderella are actually to the side talking to each other.
Right, but its not voiced and they don't address each other, only sora. Their actual characters don't interact.
The best we ever get is Maleificent's villain gang in KH1 and that was actually interesting... and mostly dropped by the second game with a few exceptions.
Cinderella remarking on Aurora's relationship to Maleificent or that the same man who took her to the ball also stole Aurora's heart (god... makes sense in context to the max) will never happen. Or a scene of Belle sharing her love of knowledge with Megara. Or Mulan sparring with Hercules and Aladdin.
Anything involving their actual characters wont be allowed to happen. And, oh God, forget anything resembling any actual character development.
A good example of that one is Atlantica in KH1 and KH2. Ariel is fundamentally unable to grow up and learn from her mistakes. She has to trust Ursula again no matter how brain dead she is for doing so. Because acknowledging her past choices means she isnt Ariel anymore. Its mind numbing how dumb it is. The characters cannot grow.
Or so goes how the Disney company licences its characters.
It's why the series progression has gradually focused on more and more original characters. If the writers cannot establish and develop characters in a longer term, they're effectively dead weight. The simplest answer is to push them further away so the lack of development is less noticed and put the focus elsewhere and damn the premise.
Well in the Alice's case, Donald was against helping her immediately. Unlike Sora that rushed off right away
Weewer · 10 points · Posted at 06:01:28 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
That's generally how it goes. Donald and Goofy aren't keen on helping. Shounen Protagonist Sora jumps in. Donald and Goofy put up minor resistance because in the end they do wanna help deep down. The cycle continues. Light begets Darkness.
Going by the game lore, if anyone should be giving this speech it should be Eraqus or Aqua. Literally none of the present generation follows the "prime directive."
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 06:41:07 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
True, but I’ve always assumed battle levels were the “canon” order SDG went.
And actually, Olympus Coliseum better argues my point with Wonderland. Sora (and Donald and Goofy) jump at the chance to compete in a local fighting tournament simply by hearing about it and listening to Phil shit talk their hero credentials. Until the tournament happens, they are completely unaware of the Heartless taking over the tournament or that Hades was scheming against them.
Hades sure is lucky SDG took an interest in the tournament. If they didn’t, I’m sure he would have crafted another scenario for Cloud to attack them, but it wouldn’t have had such a convenient cover of being an “accident”.
Actually, they do. In Wonderland's cutscene Sora asks if they should get involved, while Donald says 'no' because it would be meddling. The Queen of Hearts declares Alice is guilty for the crime of assault and attempted theft of her heart. That is when Sora gets involved. A quick look on youtube clears that one up. :)
Probably not, which is exactly the point of "no intervention": so you the visitor don't end up imposing your own ideas or beliefs on the place you're visiting. It's basically the "Don't be Christopher Columbus" Clause.
"From the introduction of foreign bodies is conflict and chaos spawned." Logically then, from the withholding of foreign bodies (e.g. withholding judgment on the local people or customs) is conflict and chaos avoided.
Of course all this presupposes that chaos and conflict are things that should be avoided (which to me personally, they are).
No I suppose Sora did not. I dont think a 12 year old boy with a personality like Soras is going to sit around while someone potentially innocent is killed though.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 03:43:04 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
That would be relevant if he was involved in the legal system. He isn’t, he’s an outsider from another world that had no actual business trying to do anything. Alice actually being innocent and even being a Princess of Heart are retroactive justifications, because Sora couldn’t have known either of those things were true.
Most of the time, they get involved as a way to deal with the threats that have invaded the world: Heartless or Nobodies aren't part of the order of single worlds, and as a wielder of the Keyblade it's Sora's duty to fight them. If they landed in a world and saw everything was alright, they would just leave.
Welp, actually they just interfere in 1 place of the world. As long as they don't make history it should be okay I guess? I mean, worlds are kinda big in comparison to the places they visit
It's not something they bring up but it may be an intentional character flaw that is used to make things happen. But eventually they're like you know nagging to the player about this all the time sucks. In Bbs the excuse is probably that they are better trained to deal with going to other worlds.
A world has its own unique truths i.e reality. So Donald is saying if they were to bring in other truths from different worlds that may contradict the reality of that world, they would only bring disorder.
You know, after posting this I did stop and wonder if you even could. I came to the conclusion they just turn them on by default and I never turned it off. I think you are right though.
I feel like I'm about the only one that never really had a problem understanding Donald in any form he has been in over the years. Then again I can also mostly understand Kenny from South Park, so maybe I just have a weird brain...
I've been playing through the games recently on proud mode, I found Donald harder to understand in KH1 and a little in CoM, in KH2 and onwards he does seem a bit clearer.
Axtwyt · 17 points · Posted at 04:18:07 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Definitely! I’ve got KH1, Chain of Memories, and 358.
My personal favorite is 358, as it has a stronger story, not just for Roxas, but for the Disney worlds in general.
The Disney worlds in 358 and KH2 are merged into single visits, so you get the best of both stories (I.e. Shan Yu attacks the Imperial City using the Storm Rider).
That's a bit of a shame, is it still ongoing tho? How often do new chapters/books come out?
Axtwyt · 4 points · Posted at 04:25:42 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
I don’t think it’s still ongoing. 358 and the remainder of KH2 were distributed overseas by a different company (who then reprinted the other books). I don’t think anything else is going to come out on that front.
This has been pointed out by other people, but it's a fan translation. One of the biggest recurring problems with them is that they're often overly literal and don't feel at liberty to abridge or format the dialogue in a way that makes sense and is easy to read. HunterXHunter's latest chapters are difficultt to understand sometimes because the fan translations have the exact same problem, whereas the official volumes are way more readable.
The thing I love about Kingdom Hearts is just how un-self aware it is. It's a game where Donald Duck can give a serious lecture about the order of reality, and they take it completely seriously.
*Looks at the rules and truths from game to game in the franchise.
Nobodies don't have hearts (KH2) Nobodies have hearts (KH3D), nobodies fade to nothing (KH 358/2) nobodies become whole again (KH RE:coded) Riku's relation to Darkness (KH franchise)
Right. That world order thing that only the first game cared about and never really got followed through in any significant way.
God, I stopped caring about the fucking 'World Borders' thing ages ago.
It never was a legitimate rule anyway. All it was so that the game could never be a TRUE Disney Crossover. Disney has specific rules about their characters that are immutable and that are rarely broken (RARELY being the key here). Aurora can't talk with Mr. Incredible because they don't exist together. Aurora is from Sleeping Beauty and he from Incredibles. They aren't from the same movie, so they aren't the same person if they interact.
Exceptions are obviously the very brief scene at the end of KH1 in Hollow Bastion, but even then they talk individually (never to each other) and it isn't voiced. House of Mouse did it too, but that was also more directly done by Disney and even then the interactions were mostly minimal and through Mickey and Co as a neutral ground.
And its something I've felt like has always held the series back. Its not REALLY a Disney Crossover. We never see the Princesses of Heart interacting with each other despite how important they are to the lore. Or see some of the heroes like Beast and Aladdin teaming up to rescue their respective princesses. Which would be SO MUCH more interesting than... unfortunately, most of what Kingdom Hearts has become.
I think its part of the reason why Kingdom Hearts has become a little self-obsessed with its own original characters lately. The writers can't let most of the massive cast interact with eachother or develop beyond the tiny lane of their original narrative, so they have to create new characters to develop and fill out the overarching narrative while everyone else gets sidlined to what ammounts to Monster of the Week status to maybe thematically tie in.
Now there are so many original characters that are pulling all of the narrative focus that the worlds almost seem irrelevant. When was the last time Maleficent was a legitimate threat to anything? Her villain group was probably one of the more interesting parts of the first game, and yet we haven't seen anything like it since.
I like Xion and the other original characters. I don't want to totally diss on them. But they're not... WHY I'm into the series. I'm here for the Disney Crossover aspects. And the over abundence of original characters and just how many overly complicated plots exist outside of the main concept make it feel like... Kingdom Hearts kind of has its head up its own ass at times.
I fondly remember the heady old days between KHII and BBS, when the question on everyone's minds wasn't "who's Xehanorted", but "who's Maleficent's new villain team-up?" I'm still pretty miffed they did that whole "you kill Xemnas, I'll take the castle when he's gone" scene and then never followed through.
![I’m crying at Donald’s lecture on why the world order must be maintained [Media]](https://i.redd.it/0zaunfr9o7811.jpg){kind=link}
Saved comment
KindSouls296 · 646 points · Posted at 00:01:09 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
EVEWY WULD IS DEFIGHNED BAHY ITS PARTCHULAWR BOUNDAWRIES WITHIN WITCH SOME UDASTANDING OF WREALITY EMEGES AS TOOTH! TWO TWOOTHS CAN NOT COEXISHT AND STHO FROM THE INTRODUCTIONCHTION OF FOWEIGHN BODIESH IS CONFLICKT AND KAOS SPAWNED! THAT'SH WHY WE WIMIT OUWR INVOWVEMENT IN LOCAWL AFFAIWRES!
Cowser_the_Koopahog · 106 points · Posted at 00:08:17 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Why is this so accurate
[deleted] · 31 points · Posted at 06:22:14 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
I knew this comment was coming and yet it still made me cry laugh
quadruple-jointed · 32 points · Posted at 04:21:12 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Please stop, I'm trying not to laugh at work.
Koteshima · 8 points · Posted at 10:55:40 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Freakin on point
CrimZ_24 · 10 points · Posted at 11:40:48 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
You big palookas!
SoraForBestBoy · 176 points · Posted at 23:44:33 on July 5, 2018 · (Permalink)
We need to maintain the World Border!
TVR24 · 98 points · Posted at 01:30:37 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
ORDER!
RatioTile723 · 41 points · Posted at 05:00:14 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
🅱️order
AndForeverNow · 41 points · Posted at 03:05:41 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
We need to build a wall!
Golden-Owl · 45 points · Posted at 04:59:29 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
And make Xehanort pay for it
MikeZero182 · 35 points · Posted at 05:41:05 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
which one?
Toahpt · 34 points · Posted at 06:15:42 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Yes.
Tensuke · 3 points · Posted at 10:30:04 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
/r/inclusiveor
sneakpeekbot · 1 points · Posted at 10:30:13 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Here's a sneak peek of /r/InclusiveOr using the top posts of all time!
#1: Should we draw Matt Damon as an ardvark, or a human? Yes. | 25 comments
#2: So should we put our drink into a can, or a bottle? Yes. | 54 comments
#3: Meta | 27 comments
I'm a bot, beep boop | Downvote to remove | Contact me | Info | Opt-out
MortalHades · 2 points · Posted at 11:59:55 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
I mean, he has 11 of himself, so split the bill isn't a big issue
[deleted] · 208 points · Posted at 00:07:43 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
And yet, they never minimize their involvement. Their first world visit involved Sora trying to stop a girl from being executed without any actual knowledge of the world or the circumstances.
AutoTonePimp · 141 points · Posted at 00:43:59 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
In Port Royal, SDG are trying to figure out why only Jack was cursed by the Heartless they fought. They come to the conclusion that its because they're from another world. This conversation happens like 2 feet away from Jack.
AppleTStudio · 75 points · Posted at 01:06:52 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Doesn’t he also hear them? Like, Jack makes a face.
AutoTonePimp · 104 points · Posted at 02:16:02 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
He says something like "Quit yammering mates!" So yeah, he hears them. It's actually pretty funny how they stopped caring by KH2.
When Hercules asks who was that guy who stole the medal needed for the Underworld, Sora straight up tells him who Organization XIII is. Sora also plays around with the idea of becoming king of Pride Lands even though they're not supposed to meddle.
swimdudeno1 · 64 points · Posted at 03:38:39 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
They also help Mulan join the army and help defend China.
Usurped a king in Pride Lands.
Took out the (I forget what it’s called) MCU(?) in Space Paranoids.
Stopped Jafar X 2.
Saved Christmas.
The list goes on forever for meddling.
Mike_Avery · 32 points · Posted at 04:16:05 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Space Paranoids is different. It's not a different world in the same sense that the others are. Jafar was also acting using outside knowledge and explicitly trying to destroy the world via the keyhole, which was in their jurisdiction to stop. Santa was also under threat of being turned into a heartless, which was the main goal there.
It seems to me though that they are allowed to interfere to some extent, at least to the point that they reasonably could interfere if they were denizens of the world itself. Trying to stop an unfair trial is something Sora would have done anyway, regardless of if he was from the world or not.
What it seems they aren't allowed to do is take people from their own worlds or introduce items and information to the citizens that they wouldn't otherwise have access to. Other people have pointed out how they also fail at that at times though.
Gestrid · 25 points · Posted at 04:39:50 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
The way I see it is that Sora generally isn't allowed to interfere except to correct something the Organization or the Heartless have messed up. (After all, he's the only one who can correct it.) Wonderland was simply Sora recognizing that the Heartless apparently attempted to make the Queen into a Heartless.
Throughout KH1, Sora and the others actively avoid saying where they're from, and, since most of the worlds in KH2 are revisiting KH1 worlds (or, in the case of Simba and Mulan, revisiting old friends), citizens of the world they're visiting simply never really have to ask where they came from again, or they already know that other worlds exist (such as with Queen Minnie or, to a certain extent, Tron).
I will admit that he does sometimes try to skirt around the rules, like with wanting to help Santa or becoming King of Pride Rock, but Santa obviously already knew other worlds existed because he's Santa, and Sora was stopped dead in his tracks with his plans on becoming the king.
As for the other protagonists in the series (Terra, Ventus, and Aqua), they never reveal that they're from another world, and the only reason they interfere in other worlds is to get rid of the Unversed which are messing up the worlds. (The exact same reason Sora interferes in other worlds.) There are a couple exceptions to this. When Terra reveal that there are other worlds out there to Riku, he only does so after making sure he's fit to wield a keyblade by questioning him about his motivations, and Aqua only puts a spell on Kairi because she recognizes that Kairi is someone special "we're supposed to protect." Ventus, being somewhat naive, actually meant to break the rules by making friends. (The other keyblade wielders simply made friends as an unavoidable consequence of their undoing what the enemy, whether it was the Unversed, the Organization, or the Heartless, had done.)
VVAnarchy2012 · 1 points · Posted at 14:59:27 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
That doesn't look like anything to me
MarioGonzalez2005 · 15 points · Posted at 07:39:47 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
It's actually MCP, but seeing Sora fight the Marvel Cinematic Universe would be great.
[deleted] · 4 points · Posted at 12:23:25 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
There's a non-zero chance it'll be in KH3
farlong12234 · 7 points · Posted at 12:53:11 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
donald, i dont feel so good, hyuk.
MidnightKoi · 5 points · Posted at 16:00:10 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
He already died once. No more.
InkDagger · 4 points · Posted at 09:39:49 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
It was only ever a 'thing' because Disney didn't want the characters to truely interact and develop. Especially in 2002 (with obviously them becoming more lax with things like Wreck-It Ralph 2 in recent years).
Aurora and Cinderella can't interact because they don't belong to the same narrative world. Same goes for Tarzan and Treasure Planet. Its a crossover in name only at this point because the worlds never interact (only barely in the first game and never after) and the narrative had to grow characters, plot, and lore outside of the actual Disney worlds because none of them could ACTUALLY be used.
This is why it feels so arbitrary at times. The plot had to allow SDG to interact with the worlds to bring up, well, conflict, plot, and a game. But they couldn't let the worlds interact with eachother in any meaningful capasity. Hence why the rule really only ever seems to get actually enforced with bringing the characters to other worlds and handwaved away when it comes to SDG getting involved in the world.
At this point, the Disney Worlds feel almost like a trite artifact and that makes me a bit sad at the wasted potential.
Tensuke · 3 points · Posted at 10:49:51 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
It's not much but the princesses kind of interact at Hollow Bastion after you beat Maleficent. Aurora and Cinderella are actually to the side talking to each other.
InkDagger · 5 points · Posted at 11:00:31 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Right, but its not voiced and they don't address each other, only sora. Their actual characters don't interact.
The best we ever get is Maleificent's villain gang in KH1 and that was actually interesting... and mostly dropped by the second game with a few exceptions.
Cinderella remarking on Aurora's relationship to Maleificent or that the same man who took her to the ball also stole Aurora's heart (god... makes sense in context to the max) will never happen. Or a scene of Belle sharing her love of knowledge with Megara. Or Mulan sparring with Hercules and Aladdin.
Anything involving their actual characters wont be allowed to happen. And, oh God, forget anything resembling any actual character development.
A good example of that one is Atlantica in KH1 and KH2. Ariel is fundamentally unable to grow up and learn from her mistakes. She has to trust Ursula again no matter how brain dead she is for doing so. Because acknowledging her past choices means she isnt Ariel anymore. Its mind numbing how dumb it is. The characters cannot grow.
Or so goes how the Disney company licences its characters.
It's why the series progression has gradually focused on more and more original characters. If the writers cannot establish and develop characters in a longer term, they're effectively dead weight. The simplest answer is to push them further away so the lack of development is less noticed and put the focus elsewhere and damn the premise.
danio13 · 1 points · Posted at 02:46:52 on July 7, 2018 · (Permalink)
This will seem to be fixed in KH3
HaouLeo · 16 points · Posted at 02:03:52 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
After Sora already screwed that rule in KH1 that much, in KH2 D&G stopped bothering at all lol
JervSensei · 19 points · Posted at 01:19:22 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Well in the Alice's case, Donald was against helping her immediately. Unlike Sora that rushed off right away
Weewer · 10 points · Posted at 06:01:28 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
That's generally how it goes. Donald and Goofy aren't keen on helping. Shounen Protagonist Sora jumps in. Donald and Goofy put up minor resistance because in the end they do wanna help deep down. The cycle continues. Light begets Darkness.
Sanguiluna · 12 points · Posted at 03:08:31 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Going by the game lore, if anyone should be giving this speech it should be Eraqus or Aqua. Literally none of the present generation follows the "prime directive."
jewfro667 · 3 points · Posted at 04:42:53 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
That isn’t the first. It can be the second ;)
[deleted] · 2 points · Posted at 06:41:07 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
True, but I’ve always assumed battle levels were the “canon” order SDG went.
And actually, Olympus Coliseum better argues my point with Wonderland. Sora (and Donald and Goofy) jump at the chance to compete in a local fighting tournament simply by hearing about it and listening to Phil shit talk their hero credentials. Until the tournament happens, they are completely unaware of the Heartless taking over the tournament or that Hades was scheming against them.
Hades sure is lucky SDG took an interest in the tournament. If they didn’t, I’m sure he would have crafted another scenario for Cloud to attack them, but it wouldn’t have had such a convenient cover of being an “accident”.
ChernSH · 4 points · Posted at 06:59:55 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Actually, they do. In Wonderland's cutscene Sora asks if they should get involved, while Donald says 'no' because it would be meddling. The Queen of Hearts declares Alice is guilty for the crime of assault and attempted theft of her heart. That is when Sora gets involved. A quick look on youtube clears that one up. :)
SanjayLeyh · 1 points · Posted at 02:32:56 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
I think the idea is that killing is bad... I think the slaughter of innocents is a good time to involve yourself.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 02:37:35 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
But Sora couldn’t have been really aware of Alice’s innocence.
SanjayLeyh · 9 points · Posted at 02:47:05 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Innocent till proven guilty right?
Sanguiluna · 7 points · Posted at 03:12:42 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Except that's not how the legal system works in Wonderland.
SanjayLeyh · 2 points · Posted at 03:14:30 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Does Sora know that though?
Sanguiluna · 8 points · Posted at 03:16:50 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Probably not, which is exactly the point of "no intervention": so you the visitor don't end up imposing your own ideas or beliefs on the place you're visiting. It's basically the "Don't be Christopher Columbus" Clause.
SanjayLeyh · 2 points · Posted at 03:21:44 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Except its not no intervention. Its limit intervention. Read what Donald says carefully.
Sanguiluna · 2 points · Posted at 03:25:13 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
"From the introduction of foreign bodies is conflict and chaos spawned." Logically then, from the withholding of foreign bodies (e.g. withholding judgment on the local people or customs) is conflict and chaos avoided.
Of course all this presupposes that chaos and conflict are things that should be avoided (which to me personally, they are).
SanjayLeyh · 1 points · Posted at 03:31:34 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Yeah but isn't it possible that the chaos spawned by the meddling in other worlds could be lesser than the chaos of a princess of light being killed?
Sanguiluna · 1 points · Posted at 03:42:56 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
To use your own question: Did Sora know that though?
SanjayLeyh · 1 points · Posted at 03:56:57 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
No I suppose Sora did not. I dont think a 12 year old boy with a personality like Soras is going to sit around while someone potentially innocent is killed though.
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 03:43:04 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
That would be relevant if he was involved in the legal system. He isn’t, he’s an outsider from another world that had no actual business trying to do anything. Alice actually being innocent and even being a Princess of Heart are retroactive justifications, because Sora couldn’t have known either of those things were true.
David_the_Wanderer · 2 points · Posted at 07:08:12 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
What spurned Sora's intervention was witnessing the unfair and ridiculous way the Queen of Hearts conducted the trial.
Alice is also not from Wonderland herself, however.
David_the_Wanderer · 1 points · Posted at 07:10:56 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Most of the time, they get involved as a way to deal with the threats that have invaded the world: Heartless or Nobodies aren't part of the order of single worlds, and as a wielder of the Keyblade it's Sora's duty to fight them. If they landed in a world and saw everything was alright, they would just leave.
LightWolf73 · 1 points · Posted at 11:14:17 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Welp, actually they just interfere in 1 place of the world. As long as they don't make history it should be okay I guess? I mean, worlds are kinda big in comparison to the places they visit
MariterOrb · 1 points · Posted at 16:57:28 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
It's not something they bring up but it may be an intentional character flaw that is used to make things happen. But eventually they're like you know nagging to the player about this all the time sucks. In Bbs the excuse is probably that they are better trained to deal with going to other worlds.
xStizzy · 90 points · Posted at 23:16:06 on July 5, 2018 · (Permalink)
Will you fight? Or will you perish like a dog?
ShockedCurve453 · 46 points · Posted at 02:34:27 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
HYPOCRITE THAT YOU ARE
DemonstrablyPotato · 26 points · Posted at 03:35:29 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
A-hyuck!
[deleted] · 1 points · Posted at 09:40:27 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
I love that image.
Moni_22 · 25 points · Posted at 01:18:38 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
I.... I don't think I follow
OctobertheDog · 24 points · Posted at 04:41:05 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
A world has its own unique truths i.e reality. So Donald is saying if they were to bring in other truths from different worlds that may contradict the reality of that world, they would only bring disorder.
Ulmaxes · 10 points · Posted at 04:45:35 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
I imagine matter and antimatter. Perfectly fine on their own, but they operate by different rules that do not get along.
Moni_22 · -1 points · Posted at 11:43:03 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Well yeah I mean, it makes sense, but I feel it's too complicated for a game which is for kids xD
The_Green_Filter · 3 points · Posted at 18:29:23 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Ah, you must be new here.
Moni_22 · 0 points · Posted at 18:45:20 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
New where? If you mean the sub yes, if you mean the franchise then nope
pcpBandit · 16 points · Posted at 02:55:31 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
It's the prime directive.
rexshen · 27 points · Posted at 01:38:08 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Quick let's get fully involved in the whole movie this world is based on.
HatterInATutu · 62 points · Posted at 23:20:58 on July 5, 2018 · (Permalink)
You will understand about 2 words of this if Donald was to actually say this. That's why I play KH with subtitles....
[deleted] · 35 points · Posted at 03:09:28 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
I mean...I don't think any KH game has the option to turn subtitles off....is it?
Gestrid · 18 points · Posted at 04:57:29 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
0.2 has the option, but, honestly, why would anyone do that?
HatterInATutu · 4 points · Posted at 07:42:12 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
You know, after posting this I did stop and wonder if you even could. I came to the conclusion they just turn them on by default and I never turned it off. I think you are right though.
leigonlord · 1 points · Posted at 10:30:42 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
kh1 and 2 both have speech that isnt heard, only through subtitles. i imagine thats why you cant turn them off.
KinnSlayer · 4 points · Posted at 06:07:53 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
I feel like I'm about the only one that never really had a problem understanding Donald in any form he has been in over the years. Then again I can also mostly understand Kenny from South Park, so maybe I just have a weird brain...
HatterInATutu · 2 points · Posted at 07:44:24 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
I've been playing through the games recently on proud mode, I found Donald harder to understand in KH1 and a little in CoM, in KH2 and onwards he does seem a bit clearer.
Equally you may just have a weird brain haha
tveye363 · 17 points · Posted at 01:53:28 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
People post this all the time. It’s a fan translation! The official manga reads more like the game.
ConfusedPolatBear · 14 points · Posted at 02:29:03 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
And yet I still don't know why his hat has FUCKING ZIPPERS ON IT!!!
BinJLG · 9 points · Posted at 04:41:47 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
It's not a hat. It's a head pocket.
Axtwyt · 29 points · Posted at 23:31:03 on July 5, 2018 · (Permalink)
The manga version of Kingdom Hearts is so much better sometimes.
TheXypris · 5 points · Posted at 04:14:29 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Is it worth a read?
Axtwyt · 17 points · Posted at 04:18:07 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Definitely! I’ve got KH1, Chain of Memories, and 358. My personal favorite is 358, as it has a stronger story, not just for Roxas, but for the Disney worlds in general. The Disney worlds in 358 and KH2 are merged into single visits, so you get the best of both stories (I.e. Shan Yu attacks the Imperial City using the Storm Rider).
TheXypris · 1 points · Posted at 04:20:01 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
So the manga covers everything from kh1 to kh2, does BBs and DDD have a manga too?
Axtwyt · 6 points · Posted at 04:20:46 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
No. So far, 358 is the farthest the story has gotten.
TheXypris · 1 points · Posted at 04:23:47 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
That's a bit of a shame, is it still ongoing tho? How often do new chapters/books come out?
Axtwyt · 4 points · Posted at 04:25:42 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
I don’t think it’s still ongoing. 358 and the remainder of KH2 were distributed overseas by a different company (who then reprinted the other books). I don’t think anything else is going to come out on that front.
Gestrid · 5 points · Posted at 04:59:12 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Which I'm kinda sad about. I was hoping KH3 would have a manga, only to find out BBS and DDD didn't have one.
KevintheNoodly · 2 points · Posted at 16:49:44 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
BBS has a novel I think, but not a manga.
NaughtyRamen · 1 points · Posted at 15:45:42 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Also the KH2 manga stops being translated literally 2 chapters from finished. Am salt
SKP23en · 8 points · Posted at 07:07:00 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
I'm surprised no one has linked to this relevant picture
Sea-Salt · 5 points · Posted at 06:02:53 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
I'm pretty sure the official releases aren't as long-winded with the dialogue, but all the scans online seem to be from the fan translations.
Gheistwraith · 6 points · Posted at 08:52:05 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
This has been pointed out by other people, but it's a fan translation. One of the biggest recurring problems with them is that they're often overly literal and don't feel at liberty to abridge or format the dialogue in a way that makes sense and is easy to read. HunterXHunter's latest chapters are difficultt to understand sometimes because the fan translations have the exact same problem, whereas the official volumes are way more readable.
captaintaco2345 · 4 points · Posted at 05:43:20 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
The thing I love about Kingdom Hearts is just how un-self aware it is. It's a game where Donald Duck can give a serious lecture about the order of reality, and they take it completely seriously.
Gestrid · 3 points · Posted at 04:56:39 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Wow. It's even in TV Tropes.
NmyStryker · 3 points · Posted at 05:16:31 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
And yet, as I play BBS again, all I see is these damn three kids interfering .
henstav · 3 points · Posted at 05:10:38 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
"Two truths cannot coexist".
*Looks at the rules and truths from game to game in the franchise.
Nobodies don't have hearts (KH2) Nobodies have hearts (KH3D), nobodies fade to nothing (KH 358/2) nobodies become whole again (KH RE:coded) Riku's relation to Darkness (KH franchise)
wanna bet Donald?
Ha_eflolli · 3 points · Posted at 09:31:37 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
To be fair, that one has another requirement, they only become whole if their Heartless was also killed.
henstav · 2 points · Posted at 16:02:48 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Fair enough. I still think 358/2 made it sound much more... final, but I admit I angled it unfairly,
scopefragger · 2 points · Posted at 19:54:04 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Where is this from?
InkDagger · 1 points · Posted at 09:30:44 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
Right. That world order thing that only the first game cared about and never really got followed through in any significant way.
God, I stopped caring about the fucking 'World Borders' thing ages ago.
It never was a legitimate rule anyway. All it was so that the game could never be a TRUE Disney Crossover. Disney has specific rules about their characters that are immutable and that are rarely broken (RARELY being the key here). Aurora can't talk with Mr. Incredible because they don't exist together. Aurora is from Sleeping Beauty and he from Incredibles. They aren't from the same movie, so they aren't the same person if they interact.
Exceptions are obviously the very brief scene at the end of KH1 in Hollow Bastion, but even then they talk individually (never to each other) and it isn't voiced. House of Mouse did it too, but that was also more directly done by Disney and even then the interactions were mostly minimal and through Mickey and Co as a neutral ground.
And its something I've felt like has always held the series back. Its not REALLY a Disney Crossover. We never see the Princesses of Heart interacting with each other despite how important they are to the lore. Or see some of the heroes like Beast and Aladdin teaming up to rescue their respective princesses. Which would be SO MUCH more interesting than... unfortunately, most of what Kingdom Hearts has become.
I think its part of the reason why Kingdom Hearts has become a little self-obsessed with its own original characters lately. The writers can't let most of the massive cast interact with eachother or develop beyond the tiny lane of their original narrative, so they have to create new characters to develop and fill out the overarching narrative while everyone else gets sidlined to what ammounts to Monster of the Week status to maybe thematically tie in.
Now there are so many original characters that are pulling all of the narrative focus that the worlds almost seem irrelevant. When was the last time Maleficent was a legitimate threat to anything? Her villain group was probably one of the more interesting parts of the first game, and yet we haven't seen anything like it since.
I like Xion and the other original characters. I don't want to totally diss on them. But they're not... WHY I'm into the series. I'm here for the Disney Crossover aspects. And the over abundence of original characters and just how many overly complicated plots exist outside of the main concept make it feel like... Kingdom Hearts kind of has its head up its own ass at times.
wittyreference6 · 2 points · Posted at 17:00:44 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
I fondly remember the heady old days between KHII and BBS, when the question on everyone's minds wasn't "who's Xehanorted", but "who's Maleficent's new villain team-up?" I'm still pretty miffed they did that whole "you kill Xemnas, I'll take the castle when he's gone" scene and then never followed through.
InkDagger · 1 points · Posted at 04:26:07 on July 7, 2018 · (Permalink)
I was sad they dropped that too.
Its disappointing when Maleficent is probably one of the least powerful and least competent figures in your story.
Shes been relegated to Team Rocket 'Next time GADGET!' Status.
Gestrid · 1 points · Posted at 04:29:16 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
I just saw this earlier today in a comment on this sub, actually.
Alucard_123 · 1 points · Posted at 06:08:52 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
really makes me want to read the manga
sherwin4th · 1 points · Posted at 08:31:42 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
But… but they used to be all one world..
Rivet94 · 1 points · Posted at 18:08:59 on July 13, 2018 · (Permalink)
In other news , the same person accidentaly locked himself in his uncle scrooge's pantry this very week
[deleted] · -4 points · Posted at 02:51:04 on July 6, 2018 · (Permalink)
holy cow, Donald Duck is Alt-Right