Also a hard pill to swallow is that pleasure is defined by struggle, 24/7 pleasure is nothing compared to the feeling of getting over that hill, no joy to be had. Love is nothing without hate.
An example Iโll pull out of my ass is Minecraft; when I was younger Iโd play survival, then soon after I switched to creative I lost interest and stopped playing. With everything laid out for me and zero risk/reward, I became totally disinterested and have been ever since.
Apply this to real life and it makes sense how a lot of people are just lazy bums or have no drive at all to do anything
One of the hardest pills to swallow is that you have no free will, nor endless possibilities
You certainly have free will, just not the degree to which people may like. As you get older you start appreciating more and more how your life was shaped by the environment you lived in and how your stressors and coping mechanisms form symbiotic relationships. Fat Bastard's line about eating when he's sad and being sad because he eats isn't actually a stretch- stress eating is incredibly common and being a fat ass is going to stress you out one way or another.
Bottom line is that most people don't take advantage of the opportunities presented to them and while freewill is an actual thing, most people aren't even conscious of it, and even fewer have the discipline to make effective use of it. The biggest deception we all tell ourselves is that after doing nothing and trying nothing that we haven't made a choice- electing not to make big changes and deep cuts is a choice in itself, we just don't like admitting that we'd rather the comfort of familiar agony to the risk of something unfamiliar being potentially worse.
Ok, sorry but itโs not me choking to execute you. Itโs the universe.
Mergo99 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 23:27:58 on May 17, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
You can, by means of direct action and intention. Sadistic psychopaths don't choose to be born with the fucked up cognitive wiring that makes them who they are, but if they murder someone, they're still responsible.
But they choose the action of murder. This proves free will exists.
Mergo99 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 23:53:58 on May 17, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
To some extent, indeed, but choices and outputs are influenced by many other factors other than your own will and a considerable amount of them are beyond your reach.
Then does personal responsibility for your actions exist in your mind? Not all choices are possible I agree but you have a choice in what to do when you react to things.
Mergo99 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:40:28 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
Yes. Even though my choices are often considerably shaped by external factors, they're still my choices.
This has probably already been thought of but if it were possible to simulate the universe, then it would happen in the simulation the exact same way that it happened in the world with the simulation, so that eventually the simulation would reach the point where it would simulate the simulation, and you could look through history exactly as it happened in the real universe but instead in the simulation.
Do the people in the simulation have free will? Is it possible that we're one of the simulated simulations?
Sure, but that's the "appeal to the stone"- the determinist can still say that you were always going to punch the wall. The best 'refutation' IMO is that the presence or absence of free will is not empirically testable- and so if no series of events can be observably changed by the truth/falsity of the theory or predicted by the theory (determinism), then that's effectively saying that the theory is meaningless, having no consequences.
This reminds me a bit of the appeal to ignorance fallacy: You can't disprove what I'm saying so I must be right. In my life, I've not seen any evidence suggesting free will is real. I'm completely open if you can provide evidence, but I've simply never seen any.
It's not an appeal to ignorance because it lacks the second part- determinism/free will is an unfalsifiable claim, either way. Free will is the default because to ourselves we appear to have it, but that, like everything else, is technically compatible with either explanation. We change nothing by saying "as he was always going to do" or indeed "as he freely chose".
Imagine typing out โone of the hardest pills to swallow is that you have no free willโ unironically
NeoRail ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:38:45 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
How can you trust your own body to tell you that you control it? Nothing is in your control and you are just a puppet waiting for your turn
You've used information derived from your experiential self's observation of the world (the study of the body) in order to draw the conclusion that your experiential self is illusory. How do you reconcile those views? If you're operating with flawed premises then on what basis do you claim that you have no autonomy? It seems to me like you have a solid basis for epistemological idealism here, but instead you opt for some bizarre form of materialism.
NeoRail ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:02:39 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
If your consciousness is under the control of external elements, then it is unreliable and its judgements are worthless. This includes the judgement that it is under the control of external elements.
All I ever want is to work the soil with my hands. I want to be outside from sunup to sundown, all day everyday. I want my hands to be cracked and bleeding from the amount of labor I do. I want to be able to look out on an open field, knowing that every inch of it has been curated by myself. I want to be able to come inside after fifteen hours of hard, nonstop work and spend time with a loving wife and children, ask them what they did at school, how their friends are, how they are feeling. At the end of all it I want to be able to sit with my wife as we read together in front of a warm fire, away from the harsh outdoors, enjoying each otherโs presence. This is my utopia and I hope to achieve it someday. If you are to have everything you ever wanted, make sure itโs with your loved ones.
Aqpw ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 08:02:30 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
This sub loves being a race to the bottom. You telling me you've never watched a TV series? Or is it cool cause you just hated the experience the whole way through.
wawan_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:25:58 on May 19, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
The sad thing is that a lot of kids and teens actually act this way. You could say itโs just because theyโre in a โrebelliousโ phase but we really know itโs just because someone didnโt teach their child about the value of education and challenging themselves
Foch_Future ยท 214 points ยท Posted at 22:12:42 on May 17, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
One of the hardest pills to swallow is that without challenge or adversity, you cannot grow as a person.
The_Deathdealing ยท 86 points ยท Posted at 00:56:38 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
Without pain and suffering in the world, we'd be fat lazy manchildren who don't understand the value of anything.
To really appreciate anything good, we need to experience the depths of the bad.
MARIYA_TAKEUCHI_RULZ ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 06:49:50 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
No wonder socialists in the west are mostly spoiled, lazy manchildren
wittgensteinpoke ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 10:21:24 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
And capitalists even more so.
MARIYA_TAKEUCHI_RULZ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:07:20 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
Was Wittgenstein autistic?
Chaosritter ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:44:46 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
Capitalists can't afford to be lazy unless they've already made enough money for a cushy retirement. Socialists simply expect others to pay for them.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:21:28 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
This is an anti capitalist sub, you fucking refugeefรกg
Chaosritter ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 14:25:48 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
...this is a sub about mindless consumerism and its effects on society, you fucking pinko.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:50:47 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, and consumerism is the result of capitalism. Use that noggin of yours.
ronaldreganmiketyson ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 03:16:33 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
Also a hard pill to swallow is that pleasure is defined by struggle, 24/7 pleasure is nothing compared to the feeling of getting over that hill, no joy to be had. Love is nothing without hate.
AUTOMATED_FUCK_BOT ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 03:53:24 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
On the small scale, I see this with video games.
An example Iโll pull out of my ass is Minecraft; when I was younger Iโd play survival, then soon after I switched to creative I lost interest and stopped playing. With everything laid out for me and zero risk/reward, I became totally disinterested and have been ever since.
Apply this to real life and it makes sense how a lot of people are just lazy bums or have no drive at all to do anything
RedditFan1387 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 09:56:52 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
stfu LOL
LE_TROLLA ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 10:18:01 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)*
Playing Minecraft when you were younger and learning something based from it is not consoomingActually, my previous statement was kinda incorrect.
The Minecraft part was cringe, the fact that having things handed to you makes you lazy is correct.
BeaverTeeth2 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 10:19:23 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
chad reply
1hotnibba ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 22:16:29 on May 17, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
One of the hardest pills to swallow is that you have no free will, nor endless possibilities
How can you trust your own body to tell you that you control it? Nothing is in your control and you are just a puppet waiting for your turn
FickleShame ยท 36 points ยท Posted at 00:21:34 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
You certainly have free will, just not the degree to which people may like. As you get older you start appreciating more and more how your life was shaped by the environment you lived in and how your stressors and coping mechanisms form symbiotic relationships. Fat Bastard's line about eating when he's sad and being sad because he eats isn't actually a stretch- stress eating is incredibly common and being a fat ass is going to stress you out one way or another.
Bottom line is that most people don't take advantage of the opportunities presented to them and while freewill is an actual thing, most people aren't even conscious of it, and even fewer have the discipline to make effective use of it. The biggest deception we all tell ourselves is that after doing nothing and trying nothing that we haven't made a choice- electing not to make big changes and deep cuts is a choice in itself, we just don't like admitting that we'd rather the comfort of familiar agony to the risk of something unfamiliar being potentially worse.
notsupposedtocare ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 22:41:23 on May 17, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
If there's no free will though you can't hold anyone accountable for anything.
SoMeBoDyOnCeToLdMeAS ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 23:17:05 on May 17, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
"Sorry I murdered those kids, your honour. But the thing is: free will doesn't exist so I didn't choose to do it ๐๐๐"
MARIYA_TAKEUCHI_RULZ ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 06:51:11 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
Ok, sorry but itโs not me choking to execute you. Itโs the universe.
Mergo99 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 23:27:58 on May 17, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
You can, by means of direct action and intention. Sadistic psychopaths don't choose to be born with the fucked up cognitive wiring that makes them who they are, but if they murder someone, they're still responsible.
notsupposedtocare ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:50:52 on May 17, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
But they choose the action of murder. This proves free will exists.
Mergo99 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 23:53:58 on May 17, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
To some extent, indeed, but choices and outputs are influenced by many other factors other than your own will and a considerable amount of them are beyond your reach.
notsupposedtocare ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:20:34 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
Then does personal responsibility for your actions exist in your mind? Not all choices are possible I agree but you have a choice in what to do when you react to things.
Mergo99 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:40:28 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
Yes. Even though my choices are often considerably shaped by external factors, they're still my choices.
ThenextRickSantorum ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:04:29 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
Nope
xxsaberstarxx ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:53:42 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
This has probably already been thought of but if it were possible to simulate the universe, then it would happen in the simulation the exact same way that it happened in the world with the simulation, so that eventually the simulation would reach the point where it would simulate the simulation, and you could look through history exactly as it happened in the real universe but instead in the simulation.
Do the people in the simulation have free will? Is it possible that we're one of the simulated simulations?
ihaveananouncement ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 06:15:57 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
The gymnastics that people will go through to deny the existence of God
notsupposedtocare ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:28:54 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
Free will can exist whether or not God exists. I can choose to punch the wall now. That is free will.
sparrowbelfast ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:53:19 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
Sure, but that's the "appeal to the stone"- the determinist can still say that you were always going to punch the wall. The best 'refutation' IMO is that the presence or absence of free will is not empirically testable- and so if no series of events can be observably changed by the truth/falsity of the theory or predicted by the theory (determinism), then that's effectively saying that the theory is meaningless, having no consequences.
xxsaberstarxx ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:39:03 on May 23, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
This reminds me a bit of the appeal to ignorance fallacy: You can't disprove what I'm saying so I must be right. In my life, I've not seen any evidence suggesting free will is real. I'm completely open if you can provide evidence, but I've simply never seen any.
sparrowbelfast ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:04:04 on May 24, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
It's not an appeal to ignorance because it lacks the second part- determinism/free will is an unfalsifiable claim, either way. Free will is the default because to ourselves we appear to have it, but that, like everything else, is technically compatible with either explanation. We change nothing by saying "as he was always going to do" or indeed "as he freely chose".
xxsaberstarxx ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:19:31 on May 23, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
What gymnastics do you do to believe in a deity?
ronnie_bestyi ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 02:15:13 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
Imagine typing out โone of the hardest pills to swallow is that you have no free willโ unironically
NeoRail ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:38:45 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
You've used information derived from your experiential self's observation of the world (the study of the body) in order to draw the conclusion that your experiential self is illusory. How do you reconcile those views? If you're operating with flawed premises then on what basis do you claim that you have no autonomy? It seems to me like you have a solid basis for epistemological idealism here, but instead you opt for some bizarre form of materialism.
EpicKiwi225 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:05:59 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
I understand about 15% of what you just said
NeoRail ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:02:39 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
If your consciousness is under the control of external elements, then it is unreliable and its judgements are worthless. This includes the judgement that it is under the control of external elements.
EpicKiwi225 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:33:51 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
So brain bad?
NeoRail ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:45:00 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
Only if you use it as an excuse to surrender your freedom.
BeaverTeeth2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:20:44 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
how is free will not real?
Strider_Tolstoi ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:59:54 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
Indeed. Struggle is manhood.
CaSh01 ยท 44 points ยท Posted at 20:32:21 on May 17, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
hits hard
-HypogeanMk2 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 03:19:59 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
The keyword is "give".
Having everything you ever wished for because you earned it is different.
Failedthe1upRoll ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 23:52:47 on May 17, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
Growing up sucks, growing into yourself is as difficult as it sounds.
Gaiden-Berkut ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 20:38:49 on May 17, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
Wisdom
ForwardMeat ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 23:44:15 on May 17, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
This is frightening.
WaynePayne98 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 04:17:14 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
Man Calvin and Hobbes has really lost the plot
slippityslapity ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 06:47:43 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
All I ever want is to work the soil with my hands. I want to be outside from sunup to sundown, all day everyday. I want my hands to be cracked and bleeding from the amount of labor I do. I want to be able to look out on an open field, knowing that every inch of it has been curated by myself. I want to be able to come inside after fifteen hours of hard, nonstop work and spend time with a loving wife and children, ask them what they did at school, how their friends are, how they are feeling. At the end of all it I want to be able to sit with my wife as we read together in front of a warm fire, away from the harsh outdoors, enjoying each otherโs presence. This is my utopia and I hope to achieve it someday. If you are to have everything you ever wanted, make sure itโs with your loved ones.
Aqpw ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 08:02:30 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
What you are describing is literally North Korea.
slippityslapity ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 08:03:09 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
But North Korea is told to do that by their government with no reward
EscalatingCommieRant ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 01:34:04 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
Love South Park. Some hilariously funny episodes.
BeaverTeeth2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:22:30 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
what does this have to do with south park? not saying in a bitchy way
I googled the pic and saw another thread where someone commented south park too
Alienmanatee ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 10:57:00 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
check the audio coming from the laptop :)
BeaverTeeth2 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 10:59:02 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
oh thanks i'm r*tarded
wawan_ ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 09:48:22 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)*
mm yes consoom south park
(bruh its a joke ffs, dont downvote my heckin karma kind strangers)
EscalatingCommieRant ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:45:55 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
People can enjoy things.
This sub loves being a race to the bottom. You telling me you've never watched a TV series? Or is it cool cause you just hated the experience the whole way through.
wawan_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:25:58 on May 19, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
its a joke lmao south park is based
xeverxsleepx ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 02:41:22 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
A lot of old people relapse post-retirement and begin acting like this.
jawwnsun ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:41:48 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
Ouch
Arigatatat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:15:30 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
South Park destroyed an entire generation of boys.
wawan_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:49:16 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
sauce for the artist pls.
hopagopa ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:19:03 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
http://english.bouletcorp.com/
BeaverTeeth2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:16:43 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
me after growing up with a father figure so bad he goes into the negatives, sucks man
EpicKiwi225 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:08:05 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
At least you had a father figure my guy
BeaverTeeth2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:39:50 on May 20, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
he was horrible growing up basically like i didn't have one with the baggage of one
Guillaumerr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:00:32 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
"The best way to kill a man is to pay him for doing nothing" - Fรฉlix Leclerc
ArchyMVP0592 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:03:59 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
The sad thing is that a lot of kids and teens actually act this way. You could say itโs just because theyโre in a โrebelliousโ phase but we really know itโs just because someone didnโt teach their child about the value of education and challenging themselves
vincecarterskneecart ยท -13 points ยท Posted at 02:51:49 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
Do you all seriously think normal adult life is where you just get โeverything you wantโ?
biacuitsandgravy ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 04:03:28 on May 18, 2020 ยท (Permalink)
No, some people just choice to live a consumerist lifestyle