Tarantino did nothing but watching movies for the first 30 years of his life.
Tubaka ยท 74 points ยท Posted at 21:07:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lol that's what I came to say. Tarantino has seen so many movies he can tell you exactlh how many frames the obscure Nepalese actor Hugh Jadick ever appeared on film.
Also, Tarantino is known to have a crippling inferiority complex and the need to fit in because he knows he doesn't know nearly as much as his colleagues, even if he has an amazing amount of raw talent above many of them.
Tubaka ยท 52 points ยท Posted at 21:34:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can definitely see this given the way he talks. I think the guy is a genius but he can come off sounding very abrasive
He seems fun enough. The one thing he said that really threw me off his bandwagon was he said he was retiring from film making because the industry is switching to digital. I get living the way film looks but come on I thought his love for movies was what motivated him not the medium it was shot on.
Tubaka ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 02:27:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I thought it was because he thought he would be too old and didn't want to make old man movies
Atherum ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 05:17:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Clint Eastwood's old man movies are better than most movies. <----- Full stop.
Exactly; it's not racism (as the ignorant media tried to make it look like), it's a subconscious need to fit in. We adapt our speech patterns to those surrounding us.
The important thing to note is it happens to everyone. When Obama was running on 2012, he gave a speech in New Orleans where he started talking more black; this coming from a well educated man who lived in Hawaii and Chicago.
It's just with Tarantino, it's a lot more obvious. Like, painfully obvious. There have been studies that show guys who hang around girls a lot tend to raise their voices to be a little higher, but stuff like that is subtle and required a scientific study to prove. Anyone can see Tarantino's poor attempts to adapt and fit in.
"Well, this shot looks like this obscure film from south africa. It's 2 minutes 15 seconds or 62 shots into the movie. The actor is a jewish, russian guy who lived most of his life in japan..."
I can totally see Tarantino saying something like this.
I honestly don't understand why people hold him in such high esteem. I don't expect every movie I watch to be believable, but how a movie flows into those unbelievable moments can make or break it. His movies start out unbelievable, and get more unbelievable as they progress. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that he sleeps in Spiderman P.J.'s, because his flicks just seem like the work of a 4th grader.
Not trying to offend you, I just don't really get how everyone makes such a big deal about him. In hind-sight, I should have just kept my opinion to myself.
Cin-e-ma-tog-ra-phy. I don't like most of his work, but the man is batshit with a camera. And I totally know what you mean, a lot of his stuff is childishly outlandish. You either enjoy it or you don't.
I can see where that alone would be appealing to some. There are a couple of films that I really dig for the cinematography, as well as the story. A Clockwork Orange, Lord Of The Flies. A Clock Work Orange was definitely outlandish, but having read the book many times as a kid, I didn't mind Kubrick taking some liberties with it, for arts sake.
Nice talking with you. Have a good one.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 06:24:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
The idea is that he is great because he has had such a huge impact. He's a BIG deal by filmmaking standards, and other standards too. He's has a huge impact on the artform because he studied many almost forgotten films and polished the unique techniques that would have been lost, and then gave them commercial success, often consolidating elements of many different films into one film to create a cultural fusion that is a defining element of art in the modern period. In the past this was a rare occurance and someday there won't be that opportunity because we will have been globalized for long enough. He did a lot more too.
My point is that there are certain measures of accomplishment that aren't limited to pure enjoyment or whether some random guy on Reddit comprehended it.
He won't get a mention when the modern art period is discussed in the far future, much less his work be considered a defining element of it That won't be because his films are shite, it will because they are not products of the modern art period.
I appreciate the heads up on the coming globalization! Good lookin' out, Bra.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:02:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
You've got a lot of hatred, boy. It's blinding you to reality. Next you're gonna tell me star wars isn't important because you didn't enjoy it.
You've got a lot of hatred, boy. It's blinding you to reality.
You're mistaking apathy, for hatred.
I never said Tarantino wasn't important.( He is obviously important enough to you, that you feel a need to convince me of that importance.) What I did say was that his works would not ever be discussed, if modern art was the topic. Neither will Star Wars. The established time constraints that define the modern art period, and your ignorance of them, are not my doing.
Have a nice day.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:41:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
You're making this way too personal. You win, are you happy?
In truth, I was just having a bit of fun. Don't take it personal. I realize I'm the odd man out with my opinion on Tarantino.If we all appreciated the same things, it would be a boring world. I don't hate you or him, I just have no appreciation for his work.
Peace.
Tarantino himself said he don't know that much. He is just really good at explaining his vision.
Cinematographer, costume, camera etc. All do their best to make Tarantino's vision come true. If you are good at explaining what you want, it's easier for the guys who actually make it come true.
Tarantino knows what he wants. Most people don't know that. He is an author with a vision and not a guy who wants to make a movie for the sake of making a movie.
I saw an interview with him last night and he just kept redirecting the conversation to how amazing his cinematographer was. It's nice to know he recognises and appreciates the talent around him.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 19:35:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Who the fuck thinks that cameramen have an easy job? I could never do that.
I don't do movies, but I do live television instead. On the live side of things, the actual act of filming a subject isn't difficult, but knowing all of your responsibilities and making split-second decisions is where the real talent is. Take for instance a baseball game: the camera located on the field level, 1st base side's primary responsibility is to a) show the batter when he faces and b) show the runners when they cross home plate. As soon as the ball is put into action, they have to switch from the batter to the runner on base, focus on them and frame it accordingly (making sure his body is filling the full frame and giving him space to run into). After the play, he sees a great reaction from someone in the dugout - he recognizes this and moves to that person and repeats the framing/focusing.
It's not a difficult job, but its more complicated than you might think.
Camera men arent usually told what to do by directors either. But they have to go into dangerous places sometimes they have to focus properly theres a lot of technicality that goes into it. A film set is also a dangerous place in general
Maysock ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 16:51:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
didn't went
triggered.
natos20 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:30:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You obviously didn't go went to grammar school either.
I work with many professional cameramen. Some are great, but sometimes even pro's are just horrible. Though that is mainly just because of boredom or fatigue.
And then to some of us who have been doing for so long it becomes second nature, and we get frustrated when ordinary people don't understand the rule of thirds. It's not hard!
jooksta ยท 48 points ยท Posted at 18:14:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And do it originally. Sure you can buy a screenwriting manual and follow their exact formula, but that doesn't mean you'll create characters that feel real or have any depth.
Also I took a media production class last semester where I made a short documentary and short narrative film and holy shit both of those things are SO much harder than I realized. I never thought it'd be easy, but holy shit. The time alone is insane. And I still can't figure out how to light a scene properly for shit.
I'm currently going to film school and just took a class about post-production and color. The amount of pre-production post-production work that goes into professional-level films is astounding. The amount of technology and science that goes into modern filmmaking is way higher than consumers know.
And scheduling, call sheets, etc. It's amazing once you see the breakdown of all the various production jobs that go on while shooting. Sometimes I feel like the assistant directors are the unsung heroes at times.
cC2Panda ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:10:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I used to work at a house that did a lot of CC. There is a reason people paid us thousands of dollars an hour.
The best part is most film professionals do not write scripts. There is so much that goes into film making that most people never consider. Most people can write a script (wont be good most of the time) but most people cannot pull a permit for filming on a city street.
Then there is the logistic challenge of getting 300+ people with 10+ semi trucks into a busy downtown to shoot 3 pages from that script. The pressure alone would cripple most individuals.
TL;DR Anyone can write a shit script but that isn't even half the battle of making a film.
CDRuss0 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 06:40:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My professor summed it up perfectly: imagine you have to organize a wedding, only this wedding lasts for 12-14 hours every day, 6 days a week, for about 6 weeks. That's what directing or producing a feature film is like.
Oh, totally. There's a reason movie credits are so damn long.
raiehan ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:33:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In high school I was in the cinematography program and I just finished shooting a skit for one of the clubs on campus. Five minutes after I get it to the editing bay they ask me why it wasn't done yet. Drove me insane.
Write every day. Read books about writing. Read scripts. Watch movies. Keep up with current trends. Make connections with people that can and will offer constructive feedback.
Save the Cat by Blake Snyder is one of the most popular books on screenwriting. Screenplay by Syd Field, Story by Robert McKee, and Writing Screenplays that Sell by Michael Hague are all fantastic books too.
wkuechen ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:55:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Since no one else has said it, read The Hollywood Standard. Personally I found Save the Cat to be mostly unhelpful, but is likely worth a read. Don't take any advice outside of hard-and-fast script formatting rules as gospel. No one can teach you to be creative.
You don't have to have a genius plot concept. Reddit at times gets a little too concerned with having clever conceits and genius plot twists.
Plot is only one aspect of the story. Just because a plot is similar to something you know doesn't mean you can't write a different take on it.
Boukish ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:41:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly this, "true" originality is completely overblown and overrated. Even wildly different concepts (like say, Aladdin and Les Mis) have very similar plot breakdowns, but they don't come across as duplicates because everything else that goes into a story differentiate them so strongly.
I like to write for fun, usually fictional short stories or the like.
A few months ago I had an idea for a movie and I thought "This would be neat to try writing a script for!"
I didn't realize until then how little I know about scriptwriting.
OddEye ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:26:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In college, one guy I knew switched his major to film and immediately tried to recruit his friends (non-actors) to do a full-length movie at that time. I tried telling him it was way too early to even think about that and that he needs to learn the basics before even considering it, but he and the others thought I was just being too critical.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:04:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How did it turn out? Did they even go forward with it?
OddEye ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:19:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As expected, very badly. There was no organization, they shot some scenes with no light setups and eventually friends were getting annoyed and dropped out. He didn't have a full script written (the parts I had read were terrible with nothing close to realistic dialogue) and he was even talking about somehow getting a house explosion shot using models. I really don't know why he thought it could be done.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 09:41:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sad, but I bet this happens because pre-production is very important. Also, I wonder what the post-production stage would have been like if they actually made it there.
03fb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:50:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's very similar to book writing as mentioned elsewhere in this thread.
It's not just about that one totally cool idea it's about structure and execution.
You can't just 'break the rules' or go 'meta' without understanding things first. Christ I hated seeing that crap like that during when I was doing Film at Uni
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:22:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a writer for a living, but I don't write screenplays. That shit always baffled me. It's HARD. You have dialogue and very few action notes to convey to the actor what emotions you, as the writer, need them to portray.
At least when I'm writing I can use description to paint a picture. That's hard to do in screenwriting, and my hats off to screenwriters, for real.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:11:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd broaden that to just writing anything. Some things I see coworkers write, or even executives... just wow.
I don't know which was more disturbing, his description of the inner core reincarnated souls' sex orgy, or the fact that the whole thing was written in screenplay format.
arch_nyc ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:16:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Step 1: Buy MacBook Pro.
Step 2: Put stickers on it expressing your social and political beliefs.
Step 3: Go to fucking Starbucks and start working on your script. Be sure you plug in. God forbid someone who actually needs to get some work done have access.
I took one class about writing for TV and film and at the end of the class we learned how to write 10 minutes of a movie script. For my first try, I think I did well but goddamn it was NOT easy. Finishing it would have been a pain.
n0remack ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:31:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I remember in High School, our film teacher was super into the arts of photography, theatre and cinematography. The things that we had to do to write our own videos:
Storyboarding, Scripts, Blocking, Positioning, "Balance the frame" - It was actually a lot of work...and this was at the super amateur level, I can only imagine at the professional level.
Recently I had a random idea for a sci-fi story, and decided for kicks to start jotting some stuff down. Despite thinking I had a ton of ideas & visions of events unfolding it turned out to be really difficult to come up with more than a couple pages of generic notes. Apparently there is a rather huge gap between one's imagination & the sheet of paper needed to share the vision with everyone (or anyone) else.
maular ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:48:36 on January 28, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It must be hard. So many films are, well, kinda crap. Films with acclaimed actors, directors, or producers - talented people who are invested in making something excellent, and yet somehow it still often misses the mark. The only way that could happen is if the whole thing is so complicated, or so difficult, that even experts can't keep on top of it.
Or it's the usual time / money / turf bullshit that is the death of every other project.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:32:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When I first met my brother-in-law, he told me he was writing a screenplay, and asked if I had any good ideas.
So... uh... you're NOT writing a screenplay, but if someone gives you a good idea for free, you'll at least claim to be writing one, then?
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:58:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most reviewers I read have immense respect for the craft and how hard it is. But they won't forgive you when you're crap just because they know it must have been time-consuming.
Make their own websites. And then they devalue what they think it should cost to hire a professional to turn their original Wix or SquareSpace nightmare into the buzzing e-commerce site that they've envisioned...
StubbFX ยท 993 points ยท Posted at 16:39:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Holy shit yes. I recently got an email from a guy describing a website that would take several months of full-time work to make. My payment? 1% of everything the website earns once it's done.
Guy was a wannabe writer that hadn't even published his first book. Fuck that noise
mommarina ยท 369 points ยท Posted at 22:10:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
People are willing to spend $5/day on coffee they could make themselves for 50 cents, and then won't spend one thin dime on the face of their livelihood on the Internet. FUCK THEM ALL AND THEIR CHEAPSKATE ASSES
bureX ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 00:47:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So... He wants you to be paid in his risk, instead of his own money? Nice.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:53:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A great phrase I learned from a buddy describing these types of people:
"They know the price of everything, and the value of nothing"
Mcfooce ยท -17 points ยท Posted at 00:11:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Services are only worth what people want to pay for them.
Dranthe ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 02:22:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Which, fortunately for website design, happens to be a fair bit.
Mcfooce ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 10:36:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's why there are so many of them bitching here.
TIL web designers don't understand the basics of capitalism.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:54:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, services are only worth what people will pay for them.
[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 06:58:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
to be fair, you guys probably arent worth what youre asking for your three years of experience making sites for your CoD clan
droans ยท 45 points ยท Posted at 18:30:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just make a standard template and sell it to everyone with just a little changed between each. Most people probably can't tell the difference between that and a great unique website and eventually (hopefully) someone will hit it big and the work will pay off.
StubbFX ยท 115 points ยท Posted at 18:37:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Standard template? These kind of people want something VERY specific. They don't know what it is, but whatever you make for them, it's not going to be ok.
[deleted] ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 18:49:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. Like I'm not a designer or dev but I dabble with stuff as a hobby and sometimes I'll help someone out with a site. I let them know my skill/time limitations and sometimes I still get those ridiculously specific or high functionality requests. And it's like, I'm doing this for free/a six pack you need to pump your breaks and hire a real person.
I studied design in college (UK college so not university) for a year and one thing our lecturer ALWAYS said was that the actual building of websites or apps or wahtever your making isnt the hard bit.
to quote him
"the tricky bit is not killing the person saying that it doesn't have enough 'flash' or 'oomph' but not explaining what the fuck they mean."
[deleted] ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 20:08:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 22:07:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do those websites like Squarespace that advertise you creating your own website not work? It could just be a scam, but I feel like in the vastness of the internet there should be a service that is designed to let the layman create their own vision of a website easily.
They do, if you happen to want the right thing. Unfortunately there is no free lunch when it comes to complexity. You can make some things much easier, but you can't really make everything someone might imagine easier.
As someone who is self-learning web "design"(I would say dev but i have only learned decent HTML/CSS so far), I'm really curious as to how important is javascript or php.
While his answer is true, it doesn't really tell you which is more useful or which one you should learn first. JavaScript and PHP (or other server-side languages) are not necessarily interchangeable. With JS, you will typically only be able to add functionality/neat stuff to the front-end of your site.
If you need anything more advanced like persistent data, account management etc., you'll need PHP or a server-side language (unless you use a CMS, but you can only do so much without modifications). This is the "back-end" of a site. You'll likely need to learn some database stuff too (like MySQL).
This may be confusing but JavaScript can also be used for server-side (back-end) programming, but it's much less common. Usually when people talk about using JavaScript they are talking about the front-end.
EDIT: Put "necessarily" in front of interchangeable since JS can be run on the server.
Drarok ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:36:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, that's why at the end I mentioned that it can be run server-side. Usually when people talk about JS in the general sense they are talking about running it client-side though.
Drarok ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:11:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fireynis ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:06:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But the back end is the part that actually does the work. Knowing just JavaScript means you only can really do front end. Though now with nodejs things are changing.
First of all thanks for answering :) . I have heard most of these before. I would like to be able to get a good understanding of both front and back end and then decide on which one i prefer to work on, practise even more and when i get to a good level might look for a job on that. I thought i will learn enough things during my studies but i have almost finished and the whole thing is a huge joke. "Open the PDFs we have on eclass and copy the code.".....
Well the best course of action right now is to learn both of them. First js, then php. See which one you like more. Then no matter what you choose you will have bkth as skillset. You might think that you will either do front end or back end but in a lot of places the line between them gets blurred, especially when they don't feel like hiring more people. So my advice for you would be to get your hands on both of them (and as the commenter above said, yoi will also need databases, making it three things) and while you do that start using your skills to build something yourself. It doesn't jave to be crazy complicated. Just enough to give you the feel and practicality of the job. It will be the fastest way to get to your end goal and to forget all those copy/paste pdf-s :)
To be honest for start I'm planning of turning a facebook group i have with some close friends into a site with Greek guides for League of Legends just to share my knowledge. My main concern is that i don't want to use any CMS like Joomla, but i want to be able to add new articles(?) as easily as possibly without screwing with the sites display. Maybe make a login/membership function later so people can comment or make their own guides..
I know all these are a hell lot of work and i will have to learn php/sql(maybe even more) , but a man can dream :)
The thing is, plenty of people have this same noble intention but I guarantee you're going to encounter more complexity than you're bargaining for.
What you need:
A mechanism for managing guide content
A mechanism for adding comments
A guide editor that's simple and safe
A user/admin login system
Somewhere to host the app
Somewhere else to host the user-generated content
The problem isn't that it's a lot of work for a novice to tackle. It's that you're looking at the wrong tools. PHP and MySQL, while often heavily abused, do enable you to build pretty much anything. But with that power comes complexity (if you're curious about what I mean, I can go into more detail).
All you need for what you've described is static content.
To that end, I would recommend checking out Jekyll. It's a static site generator that works like this: you spin up a local server for development and Jekyll takes all of your code and generates plain html files.
What's neat about this is that you can take of advantage of web app technologies (views and layouts, alternate markdown languages, css pre-processors, a build step, etc.) to build regular static sites. Deployments are just a matter of pushing your changes up to a remote server. Also, try Prose if you're looking for a markdown editor.
As a bonus, you carry that markdown knowledge over to reddit (comment formatting).
For hosting, GitHub Pages provides that for free, provided that you make your project open-source. It works well with Jekyll - you can use its prefab themes and site generator tool to scaffold out your project. Open-sourcing the project makes sense because anyone who wants to collaborate can do so easily and the site itself (github) already offers a user login system.
EDIT: ...apparently I forgot to comment about JavaScript. It's a neat language with a very healthy/active ecosystem and is very much ubiquitous, but it's unnecessary for this project, save for one thing - comments.
Disqus lets you paste a javascript snippet to add a comment widget to your site.
I knew about Jekyll thanks to DevTips(youtube channell) but atm i feel comfortable with just notepad++ as im doing really simple stuff. I have "finished" some webpages that don't really have any purpose, but all this week i was experimenting with positioning things as i want them to be..So you can imagine at how early stage i am.
Thanks for all these info tho. I will look into them in the morning as im too tired right now and it's a bit too late :)
Luckily AWS and Azure are still far too complicated for most wannabe's to get their heads around. Code first migrations? Models? What the fuck is this shit? I make websites man!!
akesh45 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:04:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Pretty important if you want to earn more than $40k a year.
I guess so. Idk what to offer a web designer at the moment to do some stuff for me...I'm semi cash poor, but have a solid business plan, and just need someone reliable. I've been thinking $500 for a basic site and 5% of revenue, but hard to tell how fair it is.
StubbFX ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:28:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So you probably just need a webstore? I suggest looking into Wordpress. Easy way to set up your own website, very user friendly and you don't really need to know how to code.
As a person that has no idea about the web design field, what's fair payment for making a basic website
StubbFX ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:23:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can't say honestly. If you just want a website that's pretty basic on design and without a lot of functionality you'll easily find someone who can do it for less than 250. I'm talking really basic here. However, as soon as you start asking for higher functionality or intricate design, that price is going to rocket up.
I always tell people who want to start a website for their business to look into wordpress. Very user friendly and you can build your own website without hardly any programming or design knowledge.
How much does one charge? Or what's a price that is reasonable for you?
83923678 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:52:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
FUCK DAT NOISE BRO
PaulTagg ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:56:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
yep had a friend try to get me to make him a site for his vape juice company, he offered 10% of everything sold... I told him 250$ upfront. He didnt like that.
Rehcubs ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:37:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Reminds me of some friends of my sister. They had an idea for an app, but lacked any programming or graphic design skills. They were trying to find a programmer to make the app for them, but refused to give them a percentage of the profit. They seemed to think that someone should be willing to do it for a few thousand dollars.
Oh and I love the startups. They have a half-baked business plan, haven't settled on the name of the company yet, no logo, and want a 25 page website by next week. What is going to go on these pages? WHAT?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:08:38 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
100% of the profits it makes until that covers the hours you worked/lump sum agreed upon, then 5% of what it makes forever after that sounds more reasonable.
Even then it's probably not worth it.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:56:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I appreciate this comment so much. Keep on keepin on
Yeah except that clients are never happy with the simple thing and in the time it takes you to install one theme, they'll have seen 100 others and want to integrate every flashy thing they see into the theme they already chose.
The other day, my clients complained that the font-color of their text inputs was illegible and I had to explain that it was the default color....same as google uses. So frustrating.
It would be. But just because something is easy to change doesn't mean it's necessary to change and every project has a budget. The page in question was in development for over two weeks because the client couldn't decide what they wanted and kept changing the content and the design.
I think it's really important to put your foot down on things like that otherwise you're stuck making minute changes forever since the grass is always greener. It's frustrating to have a project with no set end.
I do web development and I deal with this by offering a one month grace period. The contract stipulates what the core work contains, and any changes with only be accepted at the discretion of the developer. Then after the core outlined work is done they have a month after final payment has been made to request small changes (again the definition of small at the developers discretion).
Never had any problems with projects becoming open ended.
Do you work flat rate? My projects are often billed hourly, with a time and materials estimate up front. My clients are usually reasonable if I tell them something will exceed budget, either trading features or authorizing the overage, but every so often, it turns into a nightmare. A month of post turnover support given for free would be a nightmare for me.
I charge a flat rate based on how many hours work I reckon the project is. I then charge hourly for any changes.
99% of clients won't request any changes within the month, which I make sure to remind them of, because by the time the site is online, they look at it for a bit, show it to friends and family and get their opinion and then decide on the changes a month has usually past. There will always be the 1% who constantly request small changes over that month but I write that off as the cost of doing business.
Interesting. Do you do your design and architecture upfront as part of the flat rate? Often, that's where I find a good chunk of the things that blow my budget up.
I include everything in the flat rate. Some projects do end up costing me a bit more time than I charged but others end up a bit less time than I charged. Overall the clients don't mind, so far, because they know exactly how much it will cost straight from the get go.
As its a fixed amount that I know in advance I take 10% plus any extras at the start or the full amount for projects under ยฃ75. Extras would be things like stock images they have requested or third party plugins when using Wordpress.
Also not every design choice is a good design choice.
With websites, you should make the site easy to access and understand. If your "umph" takes away from me using your website to make an order/read an article/etc, then you're doing it wrong. With "interactive" websites, I can at least understand the goal, but interactive should not mean eyesore, unless the point is to only be funny for about 2 minutes.
I'm not even a developer but I've read these woes so many times I think I can feel a semblance of what you guys feel
akharon ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 22:50:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. Website is as vague as saying "making food". Any idiot can follow the directions for mac and cheese. Putting together a menu for a nice restaurant on a weekly basis is a little tougher. Most people don't need an e-commerce website, they just need a who we are, what we do, contact us site.
Yeah, but if we set up an e-commerce website, orders will just start rolling in! It's easy money, we don't have to worry about the hard work of advertising or anything! /s
Literally my first reaction on reading their post was a kind of frantic hand-waving, like, "whoa whoa whoa ix-nay on the ordpress-way ips-tay, otherfucker-may"
Vomath ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:08:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep, that's what my gf has for her website. Works just fine.
Technically this is true, but I can spot one of those "installed wordpress and picked a theme" websites out in a second. If you want to look like a real business run by professionals, you need a professional to do your website. Then there's the question of "does it work?" which includes everything from "If I fill out the contact form, do I get a reply" to "can I look at it on my phone without eye-pain?" to "has it been hacked and filled with malware?" to the most important of all at the end of the day, "does it make the phone ring?"
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:11:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But there's a cost-benefit analysis to do. Sure, if you are trying to sell leveraged asset management programs to other businesses, you should probably have a slick website. But if you are a bbq shack on some godforsaken spit of highway, a wordpress site is fine - address, phone number, picture of bbq, done.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:00:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm sure the web developer knows what you are talking about but assumed you did not know.
Although, a wordpress install with a BBQ on it might not get you any benefit at all. Without any SEO, how's anyone going to find it?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:18:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not a web developer for a living but I have some experience here. Blogs and mommy websites are extremely simple.
heizo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:41:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Haha, except its not. That's the problem "Its one click install, why do you charge me $$$ to set it up?"... because to set it up correctly.. and not get hacked in the first month is not a default one click install. You have to know what you are doing.
sk3pt1c ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:20:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'll give you that, but still, a WP install can do most people just fine :)
Yeah, that's fine when you don't have a large database in the backend, or proprietary programming but that's where the big money is. Some people still think their wacky ideas are just a few clicks away.
nuvoo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:49:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Another Web Dev, I hate Wordpress
sk3pt1c ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:50:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Why, pray tell?
nuvoo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:45:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The code base is full of bad design decisions. These were possible the right way to implement these features in the past, but are out of date now.
It does have some cool stuff like web hooks, but more often than not, they are used to hack together the site.
Plugins were implemented well, but the problem with plugins are the people who write them. They are typically buggy, insecure and not built for scalability. Not only that, plugs ins do not interact with each other. And if you need support, usually its impossible to get in contact with the author.
It has its uses. But luckily I no longer build websites for small businesses, so I don't have to deal with hacky Wordpress implementations.
sk3pt1c ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:58:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with you, but my point was for those small businesses, they're fine with WP, the fact that we in the know might not like how it's built under the hood doesn't really mean a thing to the people using it if it suits their purpose and runs fine, no? :)
nuvoo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:11:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I would rather use PyroCMS as it was a MVC structure. Plus the newest version uses Laravel as its base, rather than Code igniter :D
sk3pt1c ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:27:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ok but from a client's perspective: blah blah blah why?
You know what i mean? You'll basically be doing it for you, not for them, for you to learn stuff and to add it to your portfolio as something you can do.
That doesn't mean they actually need something like that though :)
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:01:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
dpash ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 01:31:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But it's good enough for most people.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 01:34:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you're still burdening your clients with PHP and MySQL in 2016, then yes, they are worse off with a WordPress install.
Edit: Looks like I've upset a lot of Professional WordPress Installers. Good.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:56:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
i fear that trying to explain this to you is a lost cause, but, software engineering is largely about selecting the right tool for the job, and getting as much as you can for as little work possible. it's simple economics, you want to be able to create a lot of value for the amount of time you spend. your client doesn't want to be billed for you spending hundreds of hours re-inventing the wheel when wordpress would do just fine.
and like maybe you don't fully understand the innards of wordpress but that's OK because what you gain from it is so valuable. I mean very few people fully understand how mysql works but it's still powering half the internet, and when it breaks and you need help you can ask an expert
[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 00:07:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 01:21:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, if your client just wants a bog standard cms site, go right ahead with wordpress.
so what you're saying is, go ahead with wordpress if it's the right tool for the job. yes, i'm sure people pick it too often in wrong situations, and a shit dev would pick it in the wrong situations, but the fact remains that it is very often the best tool for the job.
and i mean i'm not here to argue philosophy but i've worked on some prestigious teams and in my experience most of the best devs would agree that picking the right tool getting a lot for a little effort is the mark of a good dev--not a shitty one.
You clearly do not understand what he is saying. It is better to give a client what they need then what you want.
[deleted] ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 00:09:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
nuvoo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:33:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I do agree with your last comment. Installing Wordpress and a theme does not make you a web developer. It makes you a Wordpress developer.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:35:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
nuvoo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:47:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wouldn't use the word designer too. But it keeps the Wordpress installers happy
Oax_Mike ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 00:08:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It sounds like /u/sk3pt1c is an excellent developer.
He/She knows enough about it to understand what WP is and isn't good for.
We bought a $60 theme for our business and it's worked great...it would have been silly and superfluous to hire a developer to start from scratch with code.
[deleted] ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 00:12:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Oax_Mike ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:16:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
WP would be fine for almost any website where the primary purpose is to providing information to customers/potential customers.
Why would your site need to be tiny just because it's based off a WP theme?
[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 00:17:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:27:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
From BestBuy to The New Yorker, they all use WordPress.
Oax_Mike ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:28:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You can use WordPress without using a bunch of shitty plugins.
Clearly if you're a huge company this is a different story...but for smaller businesses it is fine....and my point is that the other dude recommending that people can use WP instead of hiring a pro doesn't mean he's a shitty developer.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:31:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Oax_Mike ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:33:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair a lot of developers are also more interested in adding features that are far less important than working on the copy. So it works both ways.
That's why he says wordpress. You sound like an asshole.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 06:06:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:15:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think sk3pt1c's point was that most people don't need to hire a web dev at all. They can set up their own wordpress site pretty easily and avoid spending a bunch of money, if only they had a better grasp of what they actually need.
Yeah, I was about to pay $3,500 for a new website, then I found out about Wix and I'm pretty happy with the results. Page 2 of google without even paying for ads. I'll take it.
On mobile all of your photos are halfway blocked by their descriptions and the menu button blocks the right side of your site description under your header. Might want to look into those.
I believe the main reason is there are so many (just so many) online learning tools for programming available. Most of which teach HTML, CSS, JS & Jquery. The first set of tutorials include making a simple app or web-page. These tools sell by saying "become a professional developer in 3 weeks" , hence the lack of awareness.
I work for a start-up where I'm the lead dev on a small dev team. CEO is under the impression that rather than hiring new devs, all the other employees should just do all the codeschool.com courses, that way "everyone in the company is a developer". Infuriating.
[deleted] ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 19:03:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Steal shit and quit
Dockirby ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:06:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What is he going to steal? The pens? The laptop/monitor he uses? I think the CEO would notice if you stole a monitor.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:00:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You haven't been around enough startups. Last one I naively joined was run by an idiot way in over his head. He had a good idea, and some funding, which was all he needed to be a startup.
Execution was a completely separate matter and due to his inability to actually develop the service, the business folded. He couldn't even get his product off the ground, which in my opinion is the easy part. The hard part is building the customer base, but they never even got that far.
CEOs as a group are always good about projecting confidence, being persuasive, and being able to raise money. Understanding things for every function of their company isn't necessary -- or realistic, either. For every software developer with a grievance about upper management, there are irked marketers, designers, lawyers who also correctly believe that CEO doesn't understand anything about what they do.
The best CEOs are able to hire good people and take their advice.
Yeah. It's one thing to know some code, but to figure out how everything on a page works and connects takes years of experience. Even CSS becomes tricky when you deal with different z-indexes, hover effects, media queries, multiple style sheets, plus the occasional inline styles and !important rules.
I can monkey up some html code with mdn, I also have some familiarity with html5 technology, but that doesn't make me a good developer, it just means I have google and like to play with chrome experiments.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:18:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:01:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm sure there are design firms that jack quotes up, but what I've learned recently transitioning from IT dev to agency dev is that it's actually the design time, copywriting time, account exec's time, etc., that racks up some of those quotes. My time doing the actual development of these sites is like 1/4th of it.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:12:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd argue even less. This gets expensive as a freelancer or an agency mainly because of all of the money the hiring company is not spending on a day-to day employee. There are hidden costs (especially insurance), and a shit ton of unbillable time. The dev part of doing websites is the easy part. The hard part is trying to pick apart what the business hiring you actually wants, versus what they say (not the name thing), and not making money while they spend 2 months on a turnaround time for a company photo (while you have bills to pay). Don't forget the money cushion you have to put in there because a lot of clients don't fucking pay or are extremely late.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:30:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
We've been pretty happy with most of the freelancers we've picked up for various jobs. Very reasonable prices and timelines, and I can handle most of the backend work. I guess it comes down to what fits your needs the best. eCommerce is a whole other beast too.
Dorfner ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:57:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
OMG yes! The webpages for the company where I work are horribly-done, templated websites.
This is an actual quote from the "About us" page:
In the Beginning:
The About Us page is a great place to share the history of your company or your website with your visitors. People like to know that there are actual people on the other side of the page. Let your visitors know how and why your business, organization, or website got started and by who. Let them know how long you've been in existance for.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:37:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thats filler?
Abnorc ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:39:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is square space bad software, or are most people just bad designers?
[deleted] ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 19:06:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:39:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:26:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 00:08:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So I, as a layman who knows nothing about programming or anything, could make a serviceable website using squarespace? I feel like that wouldn't be too difficult to just create a simple design with like one or two main colors, and then add in the rest of the information. Like you said, I'm not a designer, but I could make a bare bones, professional looking site with Square Space?
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:56:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
And the people who make a couple of WordPress sites, and start taking clients. People are paying them to ask for help on /r/WordPress. It's infuriating.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:43:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Pissed me off soooooo bad. Or when you're bidding a job and these assholes are bidding the same job and potential client says "well the other offer is (5x cheaper)" let them have a go then fuck face thanks for wasting my time
Aside from that, what really gets me is that they're in /r/WordPress asking for help with stupidly simple things. If you can't figure out how to get a category's posts to appear on a page, you have no fucking right to charge someone money for your services.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:40:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am with you 100% on this! The amount of times I get a messages along the lines of: I'm looking for a cute little online shop I can sell my stuff on. But all these "Web Developers" are trying to charge me ยฃ100 plus. Will you be able to do it for ยฃ30 that's how much my niece told me it should cost...
My 18 year old cousin just started a "social media" company, creating and managing pages and accounts. There are companies who do that mostly for free.
Not a big fan of Wix. I looked into it after an indirect competitor made a site on it. The site is full of fancy pictures and videos, but my god, the loading time is awful. Plus you can't find the relevant info very easily. It's kinda too flashy and your eye doesn't know where to focus. I get that not everyone can afford to pay a webdesigner, and we don't either. I just prefer a lot of the older style templates offered through other services for now. I'd definitely go the pro route if we got big enough to justify the cost.
Wordpress, PHP blah blah doesn't matter. The technology isn't what's time consuming. Its getting a logo in digital form, getting copy and photos, getting their Godaddy password, etc. Back and forth, this and that.
Back when I freelanced the question I dreaded most was "how much do you charge for doing a website?" Then when I find out that the person basically wants me to build them Facebook and I quote accordingly there is usually a long silence followed by "but my son knows computers and said he could do it for $500". And yes when I was starting out and naive I took on a couple of jobs like this - well not Facebook exactly but a big custom job for a pittance - and quickly discovered that those who pay you peanuts are also the most annoying and demanding clients that nightmares are made of. Dear readers, learn from my pain! Don't do work on the cheap. Don't do stuff for friends. Don't do mates-rates. Don't think you have to beat the cheapest quote. Charge what your work is worth. Quality work deserves quality clients.
I made blog for a job interview once using squarespace. Honestly it turned out really good and was very easy to make
Muchoz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:01:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just in the middle of a quotation. I understand the feeling.
acr1d ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:16:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
E-commerce is so much more than the site though. So much back end planning needed. Which database do I use, what software do I stack so the site is fast, will I use Python / django / uwsgi or just write that shit in php, will I maintain the server(s), do I need a load balancer, can I just use a vps, etc.
ba203 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:09:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh god, this. I've got tons of friends who did a semester of art history, and therefore that makes them qualified for design, which follows onto "there's sweet money in making website! I can do it for people's weddings!" ... okay, off you go, see you in six months when you come to your senses.
No be seriously it wasn't easy, took a lot of online tutorials, and a good full summer of trying to learn one new thing a day about web development, but I'm comfortable with it now and have made a full functioning business website and a personal custom WordPress theme. Among countless other small projects.
Came here to say this. My brother just started a company and its losing money with website sales because he "can't afford to pay someone to make it professionally" and the site doesn't calculate shipping into the price... What he needs would cost less than $500 to do. Possibly as low as 200
When it comes to web development there are a few things to consider though. Some people expect the world and offer peanuts, ie they want a custom CMS with all sorts of extra bullshit like every user can generate their own account and modify pages like Myspace or something. Then they wonder why the freelance developer can't make this happen for $500.
But then you have tech illiterate customers who genuinely get conned. They just want "a website" without knowing any of the details of how its built. They end up paying some freelance scam artist $5000 or more for a custom Wordpress theme that they could have gotten made for less than $1000, maybe less than $500 if they were stingy and knew anything about outsourcing properly.
chris480 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:08:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh dear god, no kidding. It's saturday today, I spent 4 hours fixing mx records between office 365, godaddy, and another host for a client. I can't even begin to imagine how frustrated if a non-technical person had to do this from scratch.
On a related note, social media. Yes, you can run a Facebook Page or Twitter handle but will anyone see it or engage with it? I have reached one billion impressions due to 25 million individuals engaging with content I have published organically and people still think it's "just social media" as though you could do that in your spare time, not understanding the fact that 1 billion impressions is 100 * 100 * 1,000 times (10 million times) more impressions than the 100 impressions your social media posts get.
I have a website for my writings, and I would be lost without WordPress. I do dive into some of the more advanced options here and there, but building it from scratch wold be a nightmare.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:37:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You're gonna love that Clients From Hell tumblr page
As proven by the comments, ppl think they're a web developer if they can install wordpress and change a couple lines of css to change the background.
Mirgo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:18:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's mainly thanks to the marketing. "Now you can make your own professional website, its easy" and these big companies like Wix and SquareSpace end up taking jobs.
Then again, it's a common problem that many people often think that web designers are just scammers, or are lazy. I've seen it happen too often with my competition.
Here is a video where Joe Rogan talks about untrained people getting into fights. It's from a jiu-jitsu perspective, but brings up a lot of good points.
I mean I guess it was sort of interesting, but goddamn, I learned something about myself today; throw some inspirational music in the background and I'll watch 5 minutes of anything.
Google local gyms. Most have free class, week, or even 30 day passes. It is so much fun, gets you into great shape, and you learn how to defend yourself. Come over to r/bjj if you have any questions!
Yes!! My knees have dislocated around 8 times (not jiu jitsu related) so it's possible. You just develop your own game plan around some of the moves that may hurt. Any good instructor will understand and work with you.
Pretty much that people think they'll understand a situation they've never been in before due to instinct.
Think like how some would say "if someone were robbing a bank, I'd tackle them"
In this video, he was preferring to how people have no idea what they're doing when it comes to fighting, they see a movie and think it's easy, when it reality they know nothing
maulrus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:23:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It seemed like it was just an assortment of voice clips tossed together with an audio track, not a continuous message.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:43:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You sure? Cause every dude at the bar I was at last night whose highly-technical explanations of how they could totally fuck Chuck Liddell up, even in his prime, might suggest otherwise. This is especially true with the ones who were wearing UFC shirts... Which was all of them.
Agreed, I've done a bit of muay thai and the number of people who go oh, I'd just "insert cliche move" here is staggering.
Nope, you probably wouldn't know how to align your fist with your forearms and hyper extend your wrist. if that didn't happen you'd almost certainly break your knuckles because they aren't conditioned.
People dont get take into account a lot of the smaller not so obvious details.
Hardest part of fighting is getting hit in the nose and trying to make it look like you're not crying. Then everyone realizes you are crying. Oh god it hurts so much.
HA92 ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 22:16:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I would bring both my elbows down at once into their face, blind them, and then have the advantage from there.
Speaking from experience, it's one thing to train the moves against a bag, but learning how and when to use them against a resisting opponent is incredibly hard.
That's why the white belt phase is nothing but hit the bags and air to get some techniques. It's not until a couple of colors up that you start to try that basic stuff on a moving opponent.
Yeah, found it like that with martial arts with belts, but Boxing and Muay Thai are a lot easier to use in a match.
notLOL ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:04:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I get exhausted just throwing a ball around a few times. I can't imagine landing enough hard punches or having enough stamina to hit a person enough times. The worst part is the advice to "run" from trouble. Any attacker in decent shape will catch up to me quick even at my peak fitness of my life.
I can't imagine many people deviate from that level of skill I have.
This is why fights should be avoided unless there is literally no other choice. See an exit? Take it! Better to have your pride hurt than bodily injury or death.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:09:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And you will be skinned alive by your insurance now.
vo5100 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:51:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
EXACTLY! Part of the reason that I try to be polite to strangers is that I have no idea who they are or how they would react to certain situations. I don't want anybody to get pissed off and want to physically fight me. Physical Altercations are Terrifying for a reason. Never be too Prideful to run if it would increase your chances of safety
The only truly safe way to fight is by dropping bombs from an unmarked drone.
Kaneusta ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:25:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This one was what i was looking for. Practice self defense for a long time and been in a couple of fights outside the gym, and hearing how everyone can "Beat up everyone if they really tried" irks me
Friends always tell me how they would be able to deflect or do some fancy spinning back kick before the opponent can react react, but don't realize it's not an rpg game where the opponent waits for you to finish attacking before they start. Plus all the scenarios being played out in your head are very skewed scenarios because your ego gets in the way and you don't imagine yourself losing
karlw1 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:43:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Absolutely. I'm a black belt in ju-jitsu (not bjj, the traditional kind) and have been in a few fights when i was younger ( i'm 22 now). The sheer adrenalin rush resulted in me being completely unable to think straight, or recall what exactly happened in the fight. Most people can't deal with that, including myself, but professional fighters can, which makes ALL the difference.
83923678 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:53:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Are you being a little bitch over people challenging pro fighters to a fight?
It's crazy how people think just because they've seen a few matches or have watched a few movies, they would know how they'd react. I do gunkata. And just because someone saw equilibrium , they think they can do what I do? I'm like, please sucka you don't want nunna dis. Gunkata.
Is gunkata some kind of black cussing martial art?
AudiLuva ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:32:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As someone who has a) broken bones fighting (stupidly,) and b) has no training I completely agree.
PRiles ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:52:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can fully agree with this, I think even people who do spar forget that street fights are a very different thing than your organized mat fight. The stuff the teach in the military is all about staying alive long enough for your buddies to bail you out, yet so many of the guys I work with think they can take on the world.
To be fair, if you have even a little bit of training in basic combat do and donts, you will smoke the average joe on the street.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:10:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This. I took a beginning jiu-jitsu class and realized I know nothing about fighting. Someone who knows what they're doing can break my arm and choke me out in 2 seconds.
r0ck0 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:28:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But I watched some krav maga vids on youtube, so watch out mofos!
mother fucking farming. everybody and their brother thinks it'd be cute to settle down on a farm and grow their own food, but that shit is HARD. it takes so much organization.
eatonsht ยท 2129 points ยท Posted at 16:35:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
According to my farm simulator account I am pretty good. I have 6 million banked already
Karachan ยท 359 points ยท Posted at 17:11:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, Farm Simulator 2015 is much more robust than Farmville, and doesn't have social media nags like facebook games do.
NOTorAND ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:51:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I got so many Farmville trophies. I'm ready for this.
beakerx82 ยท 1320 points ยท Posted at 16:08:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The farmer that does my CSA has about 9 acres to farm and has 1 or 2 paid interns to help him each year. I went out to help two years ago and in 4 hours we weeded a few rows of strawberries and picked a couple bushels of green beans. I was covered in sweat and pretty tired when we were done and this dude does this 6-7 days a week for 14 hours a day.
I'm a city boy with loose connections to the country side, and I love it. I recognize the life of farmers and all they have done.
Calebfro ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 02:50:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a farmer is like being a teacher, it's something only a special kind of person could do. Those who do it, don't do it for the pay, they do it because they love what they do. In the US there is a group of kids who aspire to be like these men and women /r/FFA the Future Farmers of America. We love what we do, and we wouldn't have it any other way.
exyccc ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 02:20:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, Americans sure do know how to make you feel special and then sell you a $65k truck.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:02:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah exactly, they're just appealing to their audience.
deadpear ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 05:32:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a farmer, there's no way I can afford that truck. And even if I could, I would probably use it for 30 some years until there is absolutely no way it would ever function again.
Why do you guys preface with, "I am not religious"? Would the commercial be better or worse if one was? Do you worry people will consider you religious? Is this just a form of bowing to perceived peer pressure? If so, It get's better don't worry.
I think he's just saying that saying "I'm not religious" should be a separate thing from the I enjoy the commercial. Obviously it's enjoyable for both social groups. But he's perceiving that "I'm not religious" as a disclaimer so no one thinks he is because of what he posted. Which frankly may be the case, but I doubt it.
exyccc ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 02:21:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, what that means is "you'd expect it to suck if you're not religious, but it didn't suck".
I love it because it's a beautifully done commercial that doesn't blatantly bombard you with features of the truck, and it doesn't bash any other companies.
It's awesome how people bitch about super vague commercials that have no relation to the product and now here you are saying you prefer it. It's almost like different people like different things, how insightful.
Damn I mis Paul Harvy. My parents used to listen to his radio program after church on the ride home. Our neighbors always thought we were weird, sitting in the car outside the house for 30 minutes every Sunday afternoon and none of us would talk. That man knew how to keep his audiences full attention; until he started trying to sell us the bose wave radio....
I find it blasphemous that you aren't a member of the church of Dodge Ram
Nmaka ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:31:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hnngg, the feels
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:45:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That is a phenomenal ad.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:02:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I did, several summers. Help. There were three generations on this farm. The last generation, four girls.
I got up at 4, drove 20 miles to milk cattle, eat breakfast (best ever), then feed all the cattle, calves, bull, pigs, then get the equipment filled with fuel or unload the wagons.
Then stack the hay bales for six hours, fix fences, move equipment, check on cattle, eat lunch (best ever), cut weeds on 1/4 mile of electric fences and then call cattle for evening milking and feeding. Bucket feed the calves, feed the bulls and pigs. Drive home at 7 pm and drop dead for the night, to get up at 4, seven days a week. I was sixteen.
I do other work now, my team mates ask how i can keep going after 15 hours. Farmers, especially dairy farmers are, "honey badgers."
I'm a city kid and I have had loose connections to the countryside. I always loved the idea of doing all that hard work and to be working in such a earthly environment. Hat off to you man for doing all of that. Farmers have always been the backbone of pretty much any nation, it's incredible what they do, and so sad for what big corporations do to fuck them over.
Haven't clicked the link.... But it's the Paul Harvey "So God made a farmer..." One isn't it? My Papaw was a farmer, my uncles and cousins farm still. It gets me every time!
good add. don't really have to be religious to recognize the integrity of the farming folks.
reminds me of the Johnny Walker add that was made by some students as a project.. god damn, that shit was brutal. I cried. and then I bought a bottle of Johnny Walker Red Label.. I don't even like Johnny Walker... god damn marketing.
Imtroll ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 21:27:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"And Bing Crosby just wants to watch the world burn."
H37man ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 22:12:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I live in rural Indiana. The commercial should go I need someone to stay semi sober and capable of driving large machinery at 1-2 mph as they drink and smoke constantly. They also need the ability to hire seasonal workers when any hard work actually needs done. But the most important ability they need to have is the ability to hire someone to fill out paperwork so they can get there government subsidize and not go bankrupt. Life is hard for farmers around here.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:13:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I grew up in New York, and I have rarely seen anyone work as hard as the dairy farmers who lived in the surrounding areas. They work so hard for pretty much a hand to mouth existence and are completely due their credit.
H37man ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:18:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I guess grain farming in Indiana is different than dairy farmers in New York. Who would have thunk it.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:38:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I guess all farming isn't necessarily centered around grain farming in Indiana. Who'd a thunk?
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:20:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
H37man ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:24:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nah I just grew up around farmers. If you want to believe there all hardworking good people that's fine. But now your the one sounding naive. I'm a bit jealous though. It would be nice to inherit hundreds if not thousands of acres of land and the millions of dollars worth of machinery that goes along with being able to farm it. Most of our grain is not coming from people farming 9 acres of land with just the sweat of there brow.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:34:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
H37man ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 23:35:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Obviously I don't have to. I just choose randomly and hope for the best. They all sound the same in the end.
Russian farmer goes into the kitchen with a pig under his arm.
"Look at this pig I must fuck."
Wife: "Stop fucking pigs."
"I was talking to pig."
popcan2 ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 23:32:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
who asked you if you're religious. why did you feel the need to add a "disclaimer" to your comment. People who believe in God are +1 up on people who don't.
Picking is almost entirely done by hispanic people in America. It's a very hard job. The Super Size Me dude did an episode on picking in his tv show. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg3WFt72RM8
[deleted] ยท 46 points ยท Posted at 17:58:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I hope trump has some millions of magical workers set aside for when he kicks out those Mexicans...
jammbin ยท 50 points ยท Posted at 18:08:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This actually already sort of happened a while ago in the South. States legislatures passed one of those laws requiring people to show proof of citizenship, and so tons of people left. Lo and behold farmers literally had crops just rotting in their fields because they had no one to pick and process them. There were tons of interviews with farmers saying even for decent pay (~$15/hr which isn't bad for someone without a HS degree in a cheap area of the country) they couldn't get anyone to come back after the first day. I'd say this would probably go the same way for the slaughterhouses. I'm all for making sure people have legal means to live in this country, but sometimes you need a much more nuanced solution. Just kicking people out creates a whole other mess of issues that didn't need to happen if people just weren't so xenophobic.
I remember reading about that. Some states even tried to get prisoners to do it, but it ended up being twice as expensive, not to mention the potential risk of escape.
Or maybe it just shows farmers are waaaaaaay underpaying for the work that's getting done.
I'm for getting rid of illegal immigrants. I'll admit that up front (and feel brave for doing so on reddit /s). But here's one of the reasons - it has nothing to do with xenophobia. I don't care what race/ethnicity is doing a job. But what I do care about are the blue collar workers in this country legally. Because we have so many people here illegally willing to do the work for so much less than it's worth at normal market value (as illustrated by the farmers you cite), they're pushing people living here legally out of jobs that might give them livable wages. For all the talk of wanting livable wages for people, I find it curious that those on the left don't support those living here legally by protecting them. I'm not interested in a slam fest here, but if my thinking is way off base, I'd love to hear from people like I describe above. I may not come away agreeing with you, but it might be a learning experience to at least understand your thinking. Thanks!
I see your points and they are valid points. However, if we look at the states the "kicked out" the illegal immigrants the turn over rate was high. This is even when farmers were willing to pay $15/hour in areas where that money can go a long way. More so, this offer was available to those w/o a HS diploma. While I agree we need to change the system and offer legal blue collar workers opportunities at a decent job, those same workers did not want to take the job when it was available. How much do you expect to pay them? $45/hour? $50/hour? Lets project this long-term, we then offer 8 hour days, vacation, insurance, union, etc. We will also need to factor in transport, storage, revenue, etc. Are you willing then to pay triple for those tomatoes at the store? Or have a lower variety at your grocery store? Basically what I am trying to say is that while it is great to argue how terrible that illegal immigrants take away potential jobs the bottom line is that they do work, for pay and hours, legal workers do not want to touch. Don't hate the person trying to make a better life for themselves and families (this is essentially what America is about) hate the system for creating such an environment.
I understand where you're coming from though. I don't support those coming here illegally even if they are hard workers because what I wrote above about them artificially deflating wages for people who care enough about our country/economy/etc. to follow our laws. There are SO MANY people who want to live here and are willing to do it legally. By allowing those who chose to break the law to stay, we're more or less saying 'Fuck you' to those who now have to wait longer to come in legally (because our country has decided it can only absorb X amount of immigrants per year).
My idea only works in theory and as a point to the fact the merely being an illegal immigrant makes one neither a bad citizen nor a detriment to society.
Also, we could probably use a significant streamlining of the immigration process.
Important notes: Very few farm workers are actually illegal, and even when there is no illegal/outside competition, Americans do not want this job.
Revvy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:13:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
American's don't want to do shitty jobs for shitty pay, and they won't, because there are other options. Supply and demand is a bitch when it's working against you.
Why would you say "educate yourself" and then provide links that don't address what I said. From one of your links: " Rhodes has had trouble finding Americans willing to grab a knife and stand 10 or more hours a day in a cold, wet room for minimum wage and skimpy benefits." Well, yes, that's true. But I didn't suggest paying anyone minimum wage. I suggest letting the market set wages while starting with a fair playing field, one where the job market isn't saturated by a labor pool of illegal immigrants.
In those areas where legal residents won't take the job at the wage offered, it indicates the wage offered likely isn't high enough. There is a price point where people will work.
jammbin ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:02:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The thing was, they tried paying people fair wages ($15/hr is really pretty good when the cost of living is super low, like 4 bdrm homes for $60k). They all quit after a day or two. Someone mentioned it below but they even tried using prison labor and that didn't work either. I should also mention that not all of the workers were illegal. Many of them had citizenship but were so scared of being harassed by police out in public they all stopped going to work and sending their kids to school.
I agree that I'd rather people go through the legal way of coming here - but if they are already here doing work that other people won't do (and again I think this is pretty dependent on the region of the country) I have big problem with just trying to cut then out of society and send them back elsewhere. The thing is, it's really really rare to find conservatives whose motive is not race based. They can spew figures and tout their support of American jobs all day long, but really its laws specifically attacking certain groups of people that don't fit their standards of "American." They weren't arresting the white people without passports on them, and it was abundantly clear that they didn't intend to. So then it bit them in the ass and they realized that actually just kicking people out or driving them underground isn't a great policy. There's a lot to gain from assimilating people, I wish more people could see past the rhetoric and focus on how to integrate immigrants successfully.
Revvy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:15:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Then pay them $30/hr. Supply and demand is never fair, but it is the god of our economic system.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:43:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I think you might have been trying to answer my post... but you replied to Revvy.
Nice assumption about "my" xenophobia. I really couldn't care less about the color of the skin of the person who picks lettuce. I also don't care about their country of origin. Why would I give a fuck?
I do care about the people already here legally. My problem is not with Mexicans (or Chinese or Indian or Irish), it's with people here illegally.
You're right. I am banking on the idea that you can pay someone enough and they'll do (most) anything. Will the price of labor (and produce) inflate under my idea. Yes. But it will inflate to where it should have been all along -- the rate at which the market can provide legal workers.
You see, opposite of being xenophobic, I worry about the legal blue collar laborers who may be recent immigrants and may not have had much of an education. They don't have a lot of options for jobs, so they're stuck picking crops, slaving away in hot restaurant kitchens, cleaning hotel rooms and the like. When a whole pool of illegal immigrants try for the same jobs and are willing to take low wages (because the low wages here are higher than the wages they can make at home), it drives the wages down for everyone in the industry. So now those people who are here legally can't even make what the job is worth. I know these people. I grew up with them. I'm not xenophobic. I care for their welfare.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:29:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If farmers had to pay Americans for the job, they would have to pay extremely high wages. The cost of produce will go up.
That may not seems like a big deal, but fresh produce is a luxury not a necessity. If lettuce from the US costs $10 a head, people aren't going to pay for that, they will just stop eating lettuce or buy lettuce from other countries. The farming industry will collapse and all farms will convert to grain because that is what is profitable to make in the US without migrant labor.
This really won't help the blue collar worker at all.
It's kind of a racist ghetto, but I go there when Steve Sailer writes there.
jammbin ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 18:57:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's not a trope, I lived there and I have friends whose parents are farmers - it's different in CA but it was definitely an issue in the South. The racism was/is so heavy in certain areas that even legal citizens stopped sending their kids to school and going to work because you don't want to be a minority who gets pulled over by the cops, even if you have your papers, you are very likely to not get the chance to prove it before you get shot or are in the back of the car on your way to jail.
I'm not saying just open up borders to everybody, but the way to handle immigration issues is not to isolate and alienate sects of the population. We've seen it hundreds of times with conservatives pushing a one size fits all zero tolerance agenda and all it does is drive the problems underground where issues spread more quickly and things just get worse. Take the spread of HIV/AIDS in the US under the Reagan administration. It cause the virus to spread far more quickly because instead of looking for a cure or a way to mitigate the spread they stigmatized it and causing people to lie about their status and not seek treatment. It's similar to immigration issues - if you just round people up and try to kick them out because you are scared of the color of their skin you are going to have a whole host of secondary issues. Having an alienated minority population that hasn't assimilated is really unstable.
If they want to attract workers then they have to be like every other business and offer better pay and better working conditions. "But nobody else wants to work in my shitty job for peanuts" is not justification for allowing illegals to come and stay here.
If that means the price of fruit and vegetables has to go up a bit, so be it. America will survive.
I have Mexican relatives in the southern u.s. they always point out that they'll hear rednecks complaining about Mexicans stealing their jobs, yet none of those guys are willing to do the job these Mexicans "stole".
[deleted] ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 18:30:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because we all want a quart of berries to cost a dollar. Can't do that while paying a living wage for the way Americans want to live. Only way is to use migrant workers.
Same thing is one of the reasons we don't have as much manufacturing. Companies don't want to pay for US labor and US shoppers don't want to pay prices that would allow companies to pay for US labor. It's a vicious cycle.
poprop03 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:41:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Manufacturing is alot more competitive than picking though.
With automation and investment you can produce most thing here and make a profit.
Until we have berry picking robots or something, picking isn't gonna really be able to pay a decent wage.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:09:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
its almost as if the situation could be solved by paying the workers a wage that allows them to buy the product made by US labor.
But no, thats ridiculously, clearly it should go to the CEO to promptly be stowed away on an offshore tax shelter.
Hax0r778 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 21:24:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's more complicated than that. If the workers were paid a living wage in the US and the product sold at a small profit then the cost would be way higher than importing the same product from Central America. Most people would (reasonably imho) buy the much cheaper product from Guatemala and the US business/farm would shut down.
If there's a demand on labor, the wages will rise.
If nobody wants to do the job, the jobs openings remain vacant and thus the wage rises in order to attract more applicants. This continues until people will want to do the job. That 'jobs nobody wants to do' argument just will never hold water. It sure sounds good until you actually think about it for two seconds.
I pick apples for a local Orchard. Myself(caucasion) and my brother-in-law(mexican) pick roughly 700 trees in 2 months. We also walk beans. I enjoy it. I have had other friends(mostly white) come and help and then quit 2 days later, because it's too hard haha We get paid $10/hr for the apples, and work everyday unless it rains from September to early or mid November. And for the beans we get anywhere from $8-$10/acre, which is contracted work so we pay our own taxes at the end of the year out of what we make. It is hard damn work, and not a lot of people want to do it anymore.
Came here to say the same thing. While illegal immigration is not right and only a small percentage of illegal immigrants commit crimes, no American is going to take on the labor these immigrants do for the same pay and no benefits. All of sudden they will want better hours, vacation, insurance, unions, etc. We need the illegal immigrants to keep costs down. While their work is shit I believe both sides benefit. We get cheap labor and the illegal immigrants get a better life when compared to the life they had in Mexico.
I feel as if i misunderstand what your trying to say are you referring to the job being shit as in a difficult job to do or do you mean that immigrants do shitty jobs because if its the latter i would disagree by saying that the overwhelming majority of immigrants have better work ethic than others.
I meant that the job is physically challenging. They get paid below minimum wage, no benefits, no health coverage, etc. I agree with you with immigrants having a great work ethic.
thanks for clarifying, it sure is as you said highly difficult and demanding i think its also a cultural thing as well as a first generation child born to a family of immigrants i have to say that i feel as if i don't have that hunger in the same way they do.
Maybe those farmers will pay an actual competitive wage which will allow non illeagals to do the job. That would be the actual capitalist thing to do. Not having a sub class of people working for illegal wages which everyone looks away from.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 20:52:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lol. The same, misguided talking point raises its ugly head.
Anyone that is involved with that aspect of agriculture will tell you that white people straight up don't want to do these jobs for $15 an hour. Trust me, I was born around agriculture and we could never hire gringos to do this kind of stuff. They sucked at it.
Furthermore, all the illegals I met actually paid into social security and they paid taxes, while never taking anything back (they were terrified of being deported). For the businesses I knew who hired illegals, it would have been impossible to get away with it if they paid them under the table. You have to pay them over the table if you're working on any large scale, and just operate on a certain amount of plausible deniability.
Many of the migrant workers do not live here or have family here on any long term basis. They don't want to, they just want to make some money to bring back to Mexico.
Also, I'd like to say that in at least the industries I was involved in, we paid immigrant workers very well. I know they are exploited in other areas though. All the more reason why we need to work to create sane legislation for migrant workers.
(tangential, but why do conservatives say we just need to make these jobs pay better to make them worth doing, and yet they're against paying a fair, living minimum wage?)
So did people not eat before mexicans? How do other people on this planet get food without Mexicans picking it? Yes the price of some foods will go up but they should. They are being artificially deflated because both parties look the other way because it benefits them both.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:03:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What happened in the past or what happens in other countries doesn't really help us, because we are dealing with the society and culture here, not the society and culture in other places. These agriculture jobs have been done by this class for so long, that if you took that class away, you can't not have problems. It's not a question of prices going up, the problem is that there is literally not the work force available to pick the crops without migrant workers. They 'exist' in that there's enough people that -could- do the jobs, but they won't do the jobs. You literally can not hire enough non-migrants to do these jobs right now.
Really? Can you cite your sources? Because when I look at the unemployment numbers, it seems we could fill a heck of a lot of jobs.
I think what you mean is we can't fill the jobs for the artificially depressed wages currently being paid to illegal workers ... but I think that's ok. Farmers should pay market wage for labor just like everyone else does. Sort of sucks that we'll all have to pay more for produce, but it's what's right, rather than A) exploiting workers and B) pricing legal workers out of jobs.
You are correct in that the numbers can fill those vacancies. However, it is assuming that the unemployed are willing to work for the same wage, hours, conditions as the illegal immigrants. Consumers are not willing to pay $10/pound of apples or $7/lemon.
So what you're saying is that instead of artificially depressing the wages, instead we should just inflate the rest of the economy, which in turn will end up causing more wage problems, then more inflation, etc etc?
Most slaves picked cotton, tobacco, and other cash crops. There were not many slaves in the Midwest where the vast majority of the countries grain comes from.
So your saying whites(mostly) worked for less money.
I think you underestimate the size of farms.
They also have less people to feed. Who picks their food ?
I highly doubt the poor will starve due to increased prices of fruits grown in the southwest when the vast majority of it is grown in the Midwest.
If your Mexican like your username says, how are you comfortable with millions your people being wage slaves?
Anyone that is involved with that aspect of agriculture will tell you that white people straight up don't want to do these jobs for $15 an hour.
First, let me say your point about "white people" seems pretty racist. Nobody here has been talking about the color of people's skin. They've been talking about legal status. But aside from that, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by saying white people won't do the work for $15/hour. Doesn't that just illustrate how terribly artificially depressed the pay is for pickers by having a flood of illegal workers?
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:32:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sure, it's all about legal status. But most migrant workers are from mexico. You're reaching on that one, there's no racism here (differences come from culture, not race).
The mexican culture is different from ours. The average mexican worker has a different work ethic. If you haven't worked intimately with them, I don't think you can get a real good feel for how their culture instills a distinctly different work ethic.
I'm speaking from experience in agriculture. These jobs are damn hard. If you want home grown Americans to do them, you will need to change American culture such that our work ethic is more like that of these migrant workers. It's not an issue of money, it's an issue of culture.
LOL I grew up in an agricultural area in So Cal. I am very familiar with Mexican culture and I agree that many Mexicans have an amazing work ethic. I'd disagree that Americans don't. But I would say that Mexicans (and other Latinos) coming here to escape absolute third-world type poverty are more motivated to work for a lot less money than people here. They can do that because they're sending their money home, where the cost of living is so much less. Workers here have to make more to support the same number of family members. Again, I don't think it's a matter of Americans not being willing to work those jobs (as much as they truly do suck), it's a matter of the wages being waaaaaaay too low and kept that way by the huge pool of illegal workers.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:41:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Although I disagree on some specifics there, then would you agree the real problem here is we need legislation that helps make hiring migrant work a legal and fair solution? Trying to get rid of them just won't work, in my eyes.
Perhaps. It depends on how you define "migrant worker." If you just mean workers who migrate from farm to farm, then we could probably agree on something. I know many families (and know of many more) who follow the crops, if you will. They'll live in Oxnard, CA long enough to pick strawberries until strawberry season is done and then might migrate up the Central Valley to pick walnuts or something next and then maybe all the way up to Oregon or Washington for apple and cherry season.
I suspect that's not what you meant, though. No, I don't support a program to bring in temporary workers on a visa program and legislate their wages. I think we should let the market sort that itself. however, I think we should enforce existing laws regarding hiring illegal immigrants and enforce immigration law. I think the rest would straighten itself out.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 21:29:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:38:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What are you even trying to say here? You made it clear you didn't agree with me but you didn't actually say anything constructive. We can't pay Americans 25k per hour, and that's just being reductive.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:47:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:48:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think one of us is clearly being a little more rude here lol.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:51:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:01:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Didn't see that one coming. I did ask for clarification on why you thought I was wrong, but you just called me 'dismissive and provocative' instead of saying something about the issue at hand. I'm sorry you have a problem with my tone, but I said things dismissively because I've worked in agriculture for a long time and have seen many people discussing an industry they don't have very much experience with. Maybe I should have been a littler nicer, but you also seem to have strong feelings on this, so you can see how it's easy to get heated.
Perhaps the real problem, then, is farm workers' wages are being artificially depressed and, instead, we should be paying a little more for fruits and veggies.
But if we pay a little more for produce, then everyone pays a little less to eat at restaurants. A little less on gas. Then servers, cooks, attendents, and oil field workers all get paid a little less because the companies have to maintain profits. So then they end up having low wages. So years down the line we raise wages for them, which puts pressure on other industries to compensate.
Raising wages for farm workers is not a solution, all it does is cause inflation. Even raising the federal minimum will only help the lower classes for a couple of months before the entire economy begins to inflate at once. Then it's back to square one again.
I see. So you are FOR keeping the lowest among us at the bottom by keeping their wages artificially deflated so the rest of us don't have to pay a few cents more for a lemon? That's your solution?
When you assume you make an ass out of you more than me. No, my solution would be to implement profit margin caps, restricting the amount that business owners can mark up their products in comparison to production cost. That way the problems of inflation and low wages never appears to begin with.
But then the conservative capitalist circle jerk would have a tantrum over big government, communist, bullshit rhetoric and my ideas would never make it through the house.
But why stop there? Why not give the means of production and agriculture solely to the government, allow them to truly set the price and profit margin and have everyone reap the benefits according to their need, from each according to their ability?
Soviet Russia tried it. Didn't work too well. We need to move our economic regulatory policies left from where they are now to protect the lower classes, however we can't go too far left or else the economy will inflate, stagnate, and wither. Further right than it is now and we'll continue a cycle of market crashes and recessions following bubbles of growth.
There's a sweet spot just left of where we are that we need to reach for.
I don't think you understand what it means to artificially manipulate the market either. I am not trolling but the stuff you are saying is not what you think it means. No one is artificially manipulating the market. It is a matter of supply and demand. There is a demand for workers and the illegal immigrants are supplying the demand. It is just competition. If legal workers were accepting of doing the work/receiving the same pay and benefits that the illegal immigrants do then we would be hiring legal blue collar workers.
Read a guy describing trying to do so field research for grad school by taking a job picking. He said unless you've been picking all your life you can't keep up. The work is too hard for you to physically condition.
Do you know where you read that? I would like to check it out. I've been picking apples and various other things since I was 15. I've gotten quite good at it, especially apples. I pick them (every year) with my Mexican brother in law (who has been doing this all is life) and I keep up with him well. Though he is still a bit faster. Haha
Alpha433 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:49:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah. That was my second thought after seeing this again. Beautiful commericial - but it plays to core american myths and nostalgia like a finely crafted country song.
It's Mexicans and Agribusiness now. And the occasional Joe Salatin, who deserves to be heard.
st0ric ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:09:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Holy jesus christ, I have been doing some work picking lemon and lime in Queensland, Australia and I get $140 per 500kg of lime and $160 per $500kg of lemon and that can be done as fast as 4 hours for one bin. These guys are getting ripped so hard.
Knowatim ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 17:32:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Invited by the US and given temporary visas in exchange for hard labor. Look up the US guest worker programs since the early 1900. Specifically the Bracero program along with the current H-1B and H-2A visas.
Um, the people here on VALID visas wouldn't be who Knowatim was referring to, as s/he specifically said "illegal immigrants and their children."
Not trying to attack you, just wanted to point out that he did say "illegal" because all too often, people on both sides accidentally forget the "illegal" part and that causes a lot of confusion. I know that's probably what happened here, so like I said, not trying to attack.
why did he bring up illegal immigrants and their children when Hispanics were mentioned? He's obviously grouping those two terms together. I mentioned visa programs because people forget that we invite people from Mexico and south America to work jobs people in the US wont
Knowatim ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:00:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most Hispanics that are not native to the USA are illegals.
I'd have to find the original post you're referring to in order to answer the race thing ... and I haven't had coffee yet, so that's not happening. /s
The problem with programs like Bracero is we have people come in on perfectly legal visas and then just stay illegally when their visas expire. The visas also do precisely what having illegal workers does, which is why Cesar Chavez and Delores Huerta were AGAINST the Bracero program.
onedoor ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:00:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was covered in sweat and pretty tired when we were done and this dude does this 6-7 days a week for 14 hours a day.
Poor logic. This is like going to the gym with your bodybuilder friend and trying to keep up with him, noticing how he does things much easier than you. Go to the gym and plan your improvement and you'll get much, much better. You do farming regularly and build up your body and you'll be doing it almost as easy as the farmer.
If you really want to, you can do farming.
boyo13 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:51:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lol I see "poor" farmers driving around in their 50 thousand dollar trucks all the time here
RageousT ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:20:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
He rebels against the Union to keep slavery legal for you?
Or am I misinterpreting CSA?
Mechanized farming for commodity crops (corn, soybeans, wheat, etc.) is quite a bit different than farming food crops. My dad and brother farm something like 2500 acres between the two of them and occasionally a third guy to drive a semi during harvest. Still backbreaking work, just of a different sort.
ok2nvme ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:55:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's not the American way.
You're supposed to plug-up your planter and then collect the crop insurance when nothing grows.
I doubt that, haha, but thanks. I miss it too. I feel like I'm being spoiled here in the city. It's been 8 years and we will move back to the country hopefully this year.
magnora7 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:31:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am glad I did not have to post this myself. Never has it been more relevant.
Shivadxb ยท 574 points ยท Posted at 17:39:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Grew up on a farm and agreed
But
It's an honest to god living with little bullshit and lying.
Frankly right now I'd swap my bs office work for a dawn start and a day of back breaking physical labour that's cold wet and smelly. Animal husbandry and crop management, fixing fences and the never ending list of fix it jobs has frankly never been so appealing to me.
I have no illusions about the hours and pay of farming but my plan is to get back to it as soon as I can. I'm done with desks and coworkers, targets and managers
[deleted] ยท 123 points ยท Posted at 18:38:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Same here. Didn't grow up on a farm but worked one from 12 until I left for college. Never thought I'd ever want to do that shit again, but after a year in an office I am just longing to spend all day squatting over a row of strawberries.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:05:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well I never thought I'd see the day... You kids don't know how easy you have it! shakes stick
Enlogen ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 18:46:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm so glad that people all have different tastes in terms of what they want to do and that there are people around who think
a dawn start and a day of back breaking physical labour that's cold wet and smelly.
sounds at all appealing. Because I do not. I don't think I could ever be a good farmer, or enjoy it. But it's a pretty useful thing for people do be able to eat, so some of us are always going to be farmers. It's good to hear that there are people who enjoy it more than office jobs.
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 19:56:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When animals are jerks, they usually have a good, simple reason for it. Weather is unpredictable no matter what, you can't expect it to behave. People, they are loose cannons, I'd rather be in nature and getting real sunlight. I wake up early no matter what and I hate to sit still, some people are very well suited to such things. I'm so glad we all have different tastes, too! I am not currently farming, but I hope to work toward being on the land full-time in the long run.
It seems so wrong to my husband and I that he only sees the kids during the day two days a week, at least on the farm we could pull together and would be together more. It's hard work, but it's so fulfilling on a lot of levels.
Ibbot ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 21:06:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
some of us are always going to be farmers
Until this happens, and all that's really needed is technitians to keep everything working. Anything a farm worker can do, a machine will be able to do better.
Ibbot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:45:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not yet, and certainly not yet in a cost effective manner. But one day, yes, and the population in general will be better off for it, and able to use the machines to do things we can't do today.
Dent18 ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 18:39:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I feel like in a job like that where you have complete autonomy, no matter how hard the work is, it's not as bad as having to listen to people and shit
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:11:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When you work for yourself, you do something because it needs done and you need it done. When you do something at a regular job, there's sixteen layers of stupid in the way, and retarded reasons for doing so. At least, that's the way it seemed to me.
n1c0_ds ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 18:05:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is it? I've seen so much tax evasion, drug growing and shadiness in my brief exposure to farming.
Shivadxb ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 19:44:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There are always exceptions but that's individuals, I have clients who deal arms to dictators and should but don't pay billions in taxes.ba few farmers and some weed are small potatoes
Nickyjha ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:24:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:03:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Shivadxb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:53:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If I was an attorney I'd have shot myself by now
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:03:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What the fuck is your job?
Shivadxb ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:54:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I consult. You'd be surprised how many big multinationals have extremely dodgy business practises in the developing world and work willingly with the worst governments on earth to screw the people and make a profit
Preeettyy sure picking strawberries doesnt require submitting an individual development plan to outline how you plan on upskilling in the next six months or listing your contributions for the past year on why you think you deserve a better raise than your coworkers.
The reason I ask is because I hope to open an indoor farm one day. I have no illusions that it will be easy, and my biggest concern is who I'm going to sell crops to, and what crops I should grow. I'm sure what I'm learn through attaining an MBA will allow me to figure this out, but I'd like to hear from an actual farmer (or ex-farmer in this case).
Shivadxb ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:49:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So much to say but I'll leave it at these. We grew crops for feed for our own stock. Indoor farm, choose a highly profitable niche product like herbs or some shit or fruits. You won't be able to work on scale so work on margin.
Farming can and has been improved by business methods being applied, it has also killed farming in a way and never forget farming unlike many businesses is vulnerable to a whole raft of different risks from disease and pestilence to a sudden change in consumer behaviour.
Thank you. Yes, it absolutely doesn't seem like an easy task. I belive I'm capable though as long as I'm determined and work hard towards it. Plus I have a very close friend of mine who dual majored in ag/be engineering, and he told me he's interested in joining me if I pursue this. Indoor farming eliminates many risks associated with traditional farming (low risk of contamination, bugs, diseases, there's no need for pesticides, crops can be rotated quickly, etc), but they come at high setup and maintenance costs.
I really don't know if I'm going to pursue this route (I'm 25), but I like the idea of running my own operation and producing something useful. Plus, it gives me a goal for business school (otherwise, I may have trouble motivating myself).
Thank you for your input, fellow Redditor. I choose not to shit post you.
Shivadxb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:48:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, and oddly enough, there's a lot less bullshit to deal with.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:57:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cattle are complete assholes.
Shivadxb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:47:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well you can turn round and tell a cow to fuck right off and punch it without much happening.......well until it decides to tell you to fuck off and it tramples you or crushes your ribs against a wall. But yeah office politics isn't really a thing
That's very true. I grew up in a super rural area, so most of my part time jobs as a teenager were various farm hand jobs. I've done pretty much everything, and now I'm at uni, but even during holidays I do relief milking for a guy a few hours drive away.
Honestly, farming is one of the most satisfying jobs. Yes, it's early mornings, muddy, dirty work, and it can be back breaking work, but I don't have to deal with shitty customers, or pain in the ass bosses. I have a job to do, and I do it. I'm productive, and at the end of the day, I can say that I have really achieved something. And it pays reasonably well.
Shivadxb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:51:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This, for me it's the satisfaction of a job well done, a real job providing real worth. Add in that not much beats lambing or calving
Saemika ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:52:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:54:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just remember the crippling debt you'll be in
Shivadxb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:52:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
At this stage I don't give a fuck anymore. Most farms run on debt as do most banks and corporations, if you can keep the cash flow reasonable then the stress is mostly internal and can be managed
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:05:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm actually in the middle of harvesting ryecorn right now, what you say is so true
Besides farming, what about being a mechanic, plumber, or electrician?
Shivadxb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:56:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a living nah, I'm ok at all of those but realistically they require training to be a paid professional, at 40 something I can't be fucked retraining and whilst they offer so,I'd work with your hands I'd rather till the land
[deleted] ยท 143 points ยท Posted at 16:38:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
People think they are the next arteezy when it comes to farming. You do it for yourself, Artour does it for his family.
Dexaan ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 18:10:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My name is Artour Babaevsky. I grow up in smal farm to have make potatos. Father say "Artour, potato harvest is bad. Need you to have play professional Doto in Amerikanski for make money for head-scarf for babushka."I bring honor to komrade and babushka. Sorry for is not have English. Please no cyka pasta coperino pasterino liquidino throwerino.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:38:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
what do you consider "top 2%"
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 23:04:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Does evil exist?
Nahaz, a university professor, challenged his students with this question. Did Slahser create everything that exists? A student bravely replied, โYes, he did!โ
โSlahser created everything?" Nahaz asked.
โYes sirโ, the student replied.
Nahaz answered, โIf Slahser created everything, then Slahser created evil since the anti-meta exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then Slahser is evilโ. The student became quiet before such an answer. Nahaz was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Slahser's way was a myth.
Another student raised his hand and said, โCan I ask you a question professor?โ
โOf courseโ, replied Nahaz.
The student stood up and asked, โProfessor, does a meta exist?โ
โWhat kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never tried starting with 6 mangoes?โ The students snickered at the young manโs question.
The young man replied, โIn fact sir, a meta does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider the meta is in reality the absence of an anti-meta. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and the anti-meta is what makes a player credited for creating a new meta. Absolute meta (-322 degrees F) is the total absence of memes; all matter becomes inert and incapable of theorycrafting at that temperature. The meta does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no anti-meta.โ
The student continued, โProfessor, does dankness exist?โ
Nahaz responded, โOf course it does.โ
The student replied, โOnce again you are wrong sir, dankness does not exist either. dankness is in reality the absence of memes. Memes we can study, but not dankness. In fact we can use n0tailโs prism to break memes into many copypastas and study the various sources of each meme. You cannot measure dankness. A simple copy of pasta can break into a world of dankness and illuminate it. How can you know how dank a certain space is? You measure the amount of memes present. Isnโt this correct? Dankness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there are no memes present.โ
Finally the young man asked Nahaz, โSir, does a meta exist?โ
Now uncertain, Nahaz responded, โOf course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of manโs inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but meta.โ
To this, the student replied, โMeta does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Meta is simply the absence of Slahser. It is just like dankness and anti-meta, a word that man has created to describe the absence of Slahser. Slahser did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love that exist just like memes and the anti-meta. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have Slahserโs way present in his heart. Itโs like the meta that comes when there is no anti-meta or the dankness that comes when there are no memes.โ
The professor sat down.
The young manโs name -- Artour Babaev.
Yelov ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:45:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My name is Artour Babaevsky. I grow up in smal farm to have make potatos. Father say "Artour, potato harvest is bad. Need you to have play professional Doto in Amerikanski for make money for head-scarf for babushka."I bring honor to komrade and babushka. Sorry for is not have English. Please no cyka pasta coperino pasterino liquidino throwerino.
JCelsius ยท 60 points ยท Posted at 16:13:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My father and I have kept a pretty sizeable garden, maybe two acres, since I was young. We also kept pigs and chickens, which we slaughtered and processed ourselves. I don't think any of it is hard really, it just requires a lot of work.
I think people tend to define "hard work" by how much effort it takes, even when it's menial tasks.
Most people seem to think that farming is growing food so the Earth does most of the work, and they can sit on the porch doing shit and waiting for harvest. As someone who has an 'easy' job that involves A LOT of menial tasks I can say for a fact that is still hard work. I have to have the patience to not throw the computer out the window just because I have to fill out four spreadsheets for everyone one piece of information.
pomlife ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 17:19:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
four spreadsheets for every one piece of information
At a business where there are no programmers, and in two months the format of one of the spreadsheets changes, and 3/4 of the staff is reluctant to learn new processes when the old ones 'work just fine', etc...
Most people seem to think that farming is growing food so the Earth does most of the work
Technically, it's the Sun that does the work. The Earth just provides the raw materials.
Enlogen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:48:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have to fill out four spreadsheets for everyone one piece of information.
Sounds like a job for PowerQuery or some equivalent. There are lots of ways to make it so that you can update one sheet and have the others pull from it on refresh! PM me if you want advice for your specific situation. Put in a little work now to save a lot of effort over time!
Oh don't worry a lot of our stuff is coded in Excel to do just that, but I work for a huge company and some things need to go over seas and I don't get a say in the procedures. Thanks for the offer of help though!
We had a smaller garden. It was probably just a bit smaller than a standard basketball court.
It was essentially a few days of hard work. You know, plowing, planting, running lines for green beans, picking, etc. Sure, some of those days it's 100F out with 95% humidity and it feels like you are going to die, but you have to get all this shit done today because everything just dried out and the forecast for the next few days is looking like rain. Uncomfortable, but my dad (and later me) could usually knock out a whole bunch of work in a few hours.
After that? It was mostly just sit back and relax. Maybe throw some dust on the crops, sometimes water it during a drought, tie up tomatoes when they start to set.
Really the hardest work was processing the food.
peesteam ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:12:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Farms around here are like 600+ acres in the low end.
JCelsius ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:23:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well yes a commercial farm but someone just growing their own food can get by with an acre or two of garden.
peesteam ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:23:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
If the food is for yourself that's called a garden. That's not farming.
peesteam ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:27:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The leading comment was about farming. Your experience with a family garden is not germane.
JCelsius ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:03:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
No, the lead comment was about people who want to move on to a farm where they can grow food for themselves. Perhaps that comment was wrong in using the word "farm", but it was quite clear they were talking about a relatively small plot of land where you grow food for personal use. Given the context they were talking about precisely what I was talking about.
If anything wasn't germane it was your comment about 600+ acre farms.
EDIT: In your own latter comment you even say "If the food is for yourself that's called a garden." The lead comment says
everybody and their brother thinks it'd be cute to settle down on a farm and grow their own food
So by your own admission, they were talking about a garden, which is exactly what I responded with.
peesteam ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:21:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
2 acres is nothing in farming though. The average family farm is 231 acres in the United States. I don't know if you know anything about pesticide usage, but that's tough. You can't just follow a label. Farmers are chemists. There's so much more then tractors also. Combines, harvesters and the works. They constantly break down. So farmers also become mechanics.
JCelsius ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:57:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Perhaps I should have clarified. What I think /u/puffytailcat was talking about seemed to be less of an actual farm and more of a garden or a homestead. They also said essentially that growing your own food is hard. That's why I chimed in.
I grew up around farms and worked on several before I left home. It's the hardest work I've ever done and am glad I had the opportunity to learn what truly hard work is. I'm not saying farming sucks because that's the wrong word. It's a yardstick for whenever I started feeling whiny about any other gig I've had through the years. At least I'm not baling hay or clipping pigs.
hezod ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:39:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My family has a cattle ranch. They grow all their own feed, sell feed to other ranchers, and they grow enough produce to feed themselves, including freezing and canning for the winter. They rarely grow any produce in surplice enough to sell. That said, the size of their "garden" is simply massive. To grow produce for profit is a staggeringly difficult, space and time consuming endeavor. I have a house in the city, and a relatively large yard where I have a vegetable garden, some raspberry bushes and a small herb garden. In the gardening season, I have to spend 15 hours a week tending my veggie patch and I don't grow enough peas, carrots, beans, radishes, beets, lettuce, cucumbers, etc to meet my family's needs, even into October. Also, because I have no guaranteed way to make my garden dog proof, I can't grow onions, leeks, chives or garlic, or my dog would poison himself.
So, yeah, professional farming isn't for everyone, but everyone needs professional farmers.
This. People think they're good at farming but dont realize that having around 100 CS at 10 minutes is standard for a pro. Most pubs cant even get to 60 in that time
It's not really that hard to grow your own food. It's hard to grow food for lots of people, but for yourself, once you figure it out it practically does it by itself. Honestly!
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:35:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hey, that's awesome! I sincerely mean that, I believe that if everyone did as best they could, doing what you are doing, we would all be way better off.
I wasn't arguing with you, by the way. That "one acre" thing gets thrown around a lot, I think maybe from John Seymour's book, or maybe it's as old as the hills?....Anyway, I don't disagree, although you would need to be somewhere pretty awesome to be able to pull it off with only an acre.
But, we are way off track on the OP, which was professionally, and I agree that that is hard as heck. But, the reason I jumped in here, is that the comment I replied to was about growing your own food, and I just wish there were more people saying "you can do it!" than "you can't because of x". Even a dang Meyer lemon tree in your uptown apartment would help. Lemons for your drinks, one less lemon on a truck from where ever.
It's relatively easy to grow food for yourself, but not to supply yourself with all of your food through all seasons, much less deal with financial realities as well.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:54:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
LOLYMAD ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:17:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How big is your farm? We live on a farm and just grow the same size crop every year and just wait until it's the right time to sell.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:31:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
LOLYMAD ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:44:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ah, fair enough. Where you at? Do you store much in silo's? or do you sell straight away.
We're a 4 person farm on 5000 acres but we have a lot more machinery than I imagine you do, so it probably balances out. We're out in Australia too... Never been to any other farms outside here... what's it like?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:55:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
LOLYMAD ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:56:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wow, we don't really have farmers markets here.... And we don't grow stuff that is picked by hand either, I can imagine that requires a lot of hard work to pick.
We grow sorgem, wheat, etc... and just use silo's.... Cool to know how others run their farms :)
Tubaka ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:19:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
OH GOD you're bringing back memories of corn detassling.
Wet cold mornings
Hot itchy afternoons
And the two hours it took to get back home and shower while itching everywhere
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:17:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:21:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:45:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:02:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:52:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Graduate student studying plant genetics. Which parts of organic are better for the soil? I can see the use of manure being good for soil health, but their pesticides aren't any better for the soil, and they use more of them. Surely they have a big negative in the fact that Round-up resistant plants have allowed most conventional farmers to go no-till, while I assume organic farmers have to till and cultivate to get rid of weeds, which causes runoff and soil loss.
My uncle is a large scale farmer and has told me stories of farmers he knows going organic and having very weed choked fields. He never heard what sort of yield they got, but the corn plants looked pretty rough, so it couldn't have been very good.
Also you say: organic, when done right. That's the problem, just because they're organic doesn't mean they're doing it right. I'm sure there are many producers who cut corners, especially in the portion of organics that come from China.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:10:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I also forsee a push away from both to a different system. I predict that if things go well transgenics will remain for pest and disease resistance, herbicide tolerant crops will decrease as image/pattern recognition algorithms get better and much of the weeding can be done by automated drones. If harvest can be sourced to drones as well, then inter-cropping could become a legitimate strategy. I still think we will have quite a few monocropped corn and soy fields, but transgenics again will probably help with nutrient use efficiency. One possible way this could happen is getting pathways from perennial grasses that move nutrients to the roots for winter into corn, sorghum, and other monocots, and a dicot version into soy and other dicot crops.
Thangka6 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:27:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd like to settle down on a farm, but one that's surrounded by other farms, and hopefully a farmers market too. That way you can have your isolation, and get your food from the source! Otherwise, I'd probably starve to death on my own farm.
jdman929 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:43:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But I was SO good at farmville!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:50:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hell, after working in a greenhouse (we grow Canola/Wheat/Rye/Barley for seed mills) I've come to the conclusion that all the armchair survivalists who think they can just 'start farming' if there was an apocalypse are completely fucked. I work mostly with Canola, and even learning about that has been pretty interesting. It's not my field at all but it's still cool stuff to learn, in terms of self-pollinating things, etc.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:57:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wow growing up in a rural area I don't think I've met anyone around here that thinks farming would be easy. We're all intimately aware that it's fucking hard and your going to be tired every day of your life if you work on a farm. And yet some of the kids still stick with it. It kind of amazes me.
Just having a fairly small allotment plot takes up a significant chunk of my free time and my boyfriend helps work it too.
My grandad had a dairy farm before he sold up and retired. He didn't go on holidays. He was up at 4am every single day, working all day, hard. And didnt go to bed until about 10pm. For thirty years. And my grandma would be doing the same.
As a result, these two late 60/early 70 year old folk are in better shape than most people I know who are my age (I'm 25), and that's not because farming is easy.
426763 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:19:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Can confirm, my dad's a farmer. For father's day a couple of years back, we planted some pineapples. I felt good about it, it was a nice experience but the harvest was shitty (because I did something wrong.) Dad didn't blame me though, still a nice time spending it with him.
I grew up in the city for most of my life. And have been around farmlands in most places, but never actually did any farm work. After the summer, I didn't do huge farm work but I did enough to feed cows, and that alone was incredibly hard, and milk them a bit. It isn't the most difficult to a degree but it certainly wasn't at the same time, especially for one with hardly any labour skills.
Inevitably that made me respect farmers 1000 times more than I already did, and I already did because they supply a lot of food and other products. I would never be able to do it for a living. I would probably get use to it, but it would probably be the death of me.
D8-42 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:42:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There's a show on Danish television about a guy doing that, (Bonderรธven, "The Redneck") think it's been going on for at least 6-7 years if not more now, he bought a farm and just slowly started getting everything fixed and up and running, really cool to follow him.
And as you say it's amazing how much work is actually involved in getting stuff like that up and running, whether it's just enough potatoes for a couple of people or taking care of animals or fixing broken tools and such.
He fixes old tools, get help from friends and spend all day planting new stuff and things like that, it really just is his life now running that farm and it's awesome.
Farming is for sure hard. But growing food for yourself and family is quite easy.
When I met my husband I lived in England with him for the first year. His parents had an old green house they were using for storage. I cleaned it out, got some grow bags, and few big pots and grew a ton of stuff. Planting everything took a full day and it was hard work. But after that we would just go water the plants and weed once a week. It was great.
Greyboob ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:22:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I've actually spent the last 10 years farming in the Texas Panhandle it's some hard ass shit man, so much more goes into it then what people would assume. Especially in the Panhandle because we don't have enough rainfall or local rivers to use conventional irrigation. All our water comes from large sprinklers and those things are a pain in my ass. To be a successful farmer today you really have to know your shit. It's a lot more then just plant some seed and watch it grow.
When I say farm, I don't literally mean a farm... like, I want to live in a ranch home with a few cows and some land. I don't want to grow crops and shit. Lol.
Thank you! I'm from a heavy farming community, and everybody and their dog works everyday of the week. My grandpa has been a farmer and rancher his entire life, and that man is the definition of a cowboy. Nearly every bone in his body has been broken, he's in his late sixties, and is the toughest person I know. Last year he was attacked by a bull, who shattered his hip replacement, and cracked his pelvis, along with busting up a few ribs. They drove him an hour to the closest emergency room, and today he's out doing rounds. He may never get to retire.
Farming is a life long commitment, and those behind where our food comes from are always underappreciated.
My grandfather was a farmer and busted his ass to provide for my grandma, mom, and aunt. Due to my grandfathers hard work he made sure my grandma is well taken care of in his death. She has Dementia and wants for nothing because of him. His hard work allowed us to make sure she gets the best care, and she seems to be happy.
I guess it's true about what they say "farmers live poor and die rich" at least in my grandfathers time.
and only the very large operations are financially sustainable anymore. I grew up on a 200 acre farm in the 80's. My grandfather had made a nice living off of it for many years but even in the 80's it wasn't sustainable for a family so my dad became an engineer. The only wealthy farmers around here anymore farm several thousand acres a piece and raise a lot of livestock.
Apart for my parents (now) my entire family is farmers, you will never know how glad I am I only have to work on the farm(s) four months of the year. It's brutal, both my uncle and cousin have severe back problems due to hard labour and being kicked by bulls. To be fair my uncle is in his sixties but my cousin is only 28
Love it when the city people come and try to make it. They quit after a week.
Bwbowe ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:31:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Similarly, sports or golf turf management. It requires a lot of agronomic expertise. I work for a minor league baseball team and constantly get questions like, "So do you just now all day?" On a normal game day I'm at the stadium 12-16 hours. During the "off-season" I still have a forty hour/week schedule at least. Growing grass and managing a field doesn't just happen, but when we do our jobs well that's the illusion that is created.
Dude worked on farms a lot as a kid fuck that job it's back breaking work. I got decent pay but good lord it's hard.
wtjones ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:37:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Aunt bought a "hobby" farm when I was a child. 400 acres of hay and 90 dairy cows. "Hobby" my ass. She needed an army of young slaves to run that spot. Unfortunately I was young and worked like a slave. Farming is fucking hard.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:40:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Farming looks like a doss. You get to be outside in the fresh air all day, you get to spend your day with animals, and farmers rack in a good bit of cash as well.
I have lots of farmers in my family, so I could get into it handy enough, but the idea of waking up at 6am every single day, shoving my hand up cows' arses, and selling my animal friends are three things I could never do. Plus, life-threatening machinery? I'll leave that to the professionals.
Tubaka ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:54:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I might be a little biased given I work on one but ya this was my thought too. Especially if you want livestock because then you're basically tied to the farm day and night until you get fed up with them and eat/sell them. Also the barrier to entry is amazingly high. If you want to retire onto a farm you'd better have a couple hundred thousand dollars laying around to afford a quarter milllion dollar combine a barn to house it. Not to even mention the practical knowledge you'd need to keep it running for more than a week
Socks192 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:01:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah but its rewarding as fuck, though it has to be something you truly enjoy or it turns out to not be worth it. My grandmother use to run a small farm on her property, it was a lot of upkeep but very fun. I learned a lot too, not just with animal and plant care, but also with carpentry, some pluming, and a whole set of basic handyman skills that have benefitted me through the years.
I can tell you first hand how hard it is to grown my own garden. I've been doing it for about 8 years now and there are xxxxxx number of reasons as to why something didn't grow. But the hardest thing ever is keeping the soil neutrally balanced pH wise because of certain variables in my region. My family has been farming since I was before my dad was born. They all have experience and I learned as I grew up. The hardest thing is growing fruit trees. We have 200 and something trees on our orchard and its a huge pain in my ass to prune them every year.
But other than that and other stuff I actually enjoy it. Its kinda therapeutic.
Farming is hard, I agree - I grew up on a farm. Growing a significant portion of your own food, however, is pretty easy.
Growing all your own food would be hard, I would imagine. I'm not sure, I do not and have never raised any livestock, we were all veggies/berries growing up.
TagRag ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:25:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But.... You CAN do that professionally. It's not easy, but you can
As a farmer taking a break from dealing with the blizzard currently....I appreciate this. I raise certified organic cattle, pigs, forages and grain crops on about 1,000 acres.
Back to opening up the road to the pig wintering barn.....
Oh man, my dad and I plant a small 6x12 vegetable garden every summer and holy crap the amount of maintenance that thing requires is staggering. Watering, de-weeding, picking, pruning, anchoring vines... It's a great hobby but I can't imagine the amount of manual labor that goes into a full blown farm.
Except that farming used to be something that the literal majority of people used to do professionally, it's just that the practices have changed. Changes in technology have made farming more technically complex and allowed for larger farms, also requiring additional organization. Beyond that farming was often more communal and organization shared by the community. The economics have also made subsistence based farming an impossibility. The labor was more physical, though, so in that regard it was harder.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:27:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Throw seeds on dirt.. Water seeds on dirt.. Seeds on dirt grow.. Pull former seeds from dirt.. Eat pulled former seeds from dirt... Seriously, how hard could it be really? /s
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:52:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But Matt Damon did it on Mars! I'm pretty sure I can shit on potatoes and make more potatoes.
Yep. Grew up on a chicken farm with my grandparents, my grandma spent HOURS maintaining the garden and taking care of the chickens, and my grandfather was a plumber and would come home and fix the chicken fences, build stuff for my grandma and her garden if she needed... Real honest work, but I loved spending time with my grandma that way. Too bad I don't have a green thumb like she does
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:18:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
According to my uncle, a farmer for over 20 years, farming is easy. Like driving a Cadillac through a field he said.
Commercial farming is fucking hard, but I've done a fair amount of research and having a substantial personal garden for your own food seems very doable as a sort of part-time job.
It's the difference between farming and gardening. Farming involves acreages of land, huge investments, a lack of sleep, and profit margins so thin you could shave with them. Also a fear of rain. Not enough. Too much.... and unseasonable frost. Fuck unseasonable frost.
Gardening is fun and rewarding and involves tomatoes. Lots of tomatoes.
People think farming is like gardening only bigger.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:34:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Am farmer, can confirm it's hard fucking work for little or no reward.
Had grand illusions of starting a farm, and did a 6 month internship at a diversified goat dairy with pigs, sheep and a 350 head poultry operation for the holidays. The end of that first day, when you are beyond the edge of exhaustion, it sinks in - you have to do the exact same thing tomorrow. and the day after.
Sure is hard applying for subsidized loans, applying for subsidized crop insurance, collecting cash subsidies, AND selling on a market protected by tariffs and buy american clauses.
83923678 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:51:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do you ever struggle to sleep at night knowing industrialization ruined society and the dedication to agriculture and survivability (oh god its underlined in red what will i do!)? If we burned all your books and academics human life would be better off without you or people similar to yourself.
Yeah no thanks, I know how hard it is. Waking up at like 2 or 4 in the morning alone deters me away from a dream like this.
tylrmhnn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:08:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Having worked on a dairy farm in my early teens, I don't know why anyone would want to get into farming. It's back breaking labor and unless you can trust someone to run your farm, you don't get days off. The only positive is fresh milk out of the bulk tank. I'll take my garden and beef from the butcher.
spudmonk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:51:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Perhaps it's because I live in a city, but I have not met a single person who have told me they think they can farm.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:18:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Every white kid from the suburbs think they should move into the middle of nowhere and grow their own food because capitalism is evil. The places they usually want to move to are really optimal for growing anything other than marijuana usually.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:45:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I grew up on a farm, and this is part of the reason I left. I'm never going back. SCREW THAT.
I was super interested in homesteading for a while. Then I realised I don't like doing my garden work when it's cold and decided to stick with the desk job for now.
Organization is hard and the labour is even harder especially if you are just starting you won't have all of the efficient machinery. Real tough for sure.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:11:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
pomlife ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:20:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well, that and the impending threat of automation. Along with truck driving, farming will be one of the first fully automated industries.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:45:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Livestock farming is hard work. Growing corn in central IL is about the easiest job there is. 2 weeks for planting, and 2 weeks for harvest. Most guys have other full time jobs because once it's in the ground there isn't all that much to do.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:11:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Got a 20 by 20 metres garden and 60 apricot trees behind the house, we're 5 in the family and can confirm this is already a ton of hard work and planning.
83923678 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:48:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
ALMOST LIKE HANDLING A REAL JOB EH GTFO OFF THE SOCIAL PLATFORM YA FUCKING GOVERNMENT PEICE OF SHIT YOU DONT KNOW SHIT YOU GREW UP IN A WORLD THAT DIDNT EVEN KNOW WHAT TECHNOLOGY IS
Saoren ยท 1269 points ยท Posted at 14:33:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
commercial arts of various sorts (professional illustration, graphic design, product design, etc)
Everyone and their mothers think they can do it, and that's the reason why there are so many terrible logos out there.
[deleted] ยท 251 points ยท Posted at 21:29:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nah it's easy! Just make a circle, put a big X shape in it (perhaps made of two crossed arrows), then in the four quadrants put your company's initials and an icon or two like a pine tree or a wooden pipe.
[deleted] ยท 74 points ยท Posted at 21:48:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And call it Lumber & Twill. It's a small design firm.
Rept4r7 ยท 46 points ยท Posted at 00:55:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I seriously don't understand this logo. A local brewery uses this type and it was the first of its kind I had seen. I've done about a million quadruple takes because it seems that every business conceptualized after that uses the same style.
Pinecone ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:50:57 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Take a square. Round out two corners. Put an icon inside.
If you're a charity make a circle of people holding hands.
Oh god, my mom used to come up with slogans for companies. She would spend hours and hours coming up with the perfect handful of words that convert what the company wants. And then they would say "the other writers charge $x/word, why is your rate so high?"
Ugggh. And then when you're known in your circle of friends for having an art hobby, they all want you to design a logo for their business venture-du-jour. And they won't listen when you explain why, as someone with training in OIL ILLUSTRATION you are not the person to go to for logo designs.
ARRRRRGH
...I may have a few pent up frustrations from this.
And now all those people are on 99designs. So called because 99% (what am I saying? 99.99% more like) of all submissions are completely awful in every respect.
I had a graphic design teacher who consequently made me hate graphic design.
"Work harder at it"
"Your client will never be reasonable, so keep drawing"
"Make like 100 little squares that are all different, pick the one you think would look the best, then redraw that 100 times larger, then have the shop teacher criticise it and offer input because you're basically free labor."
Not his exact words, but my teenage memory of his words.
He made me appreciate that any kind of art is easy to look at, but hard to actually do.
The Shop teacher ended up picking someone else's logo for the thing they needed a logo for, but I wasn't mad.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:28:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Designing a logo or designing a good logo?
ofoot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:56:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[total n00b here who just recently got inkscape to try his own hand at shirts]: The simpler, the easier it is to recognize. See: Adidas and Nike logos. That shit is just text and simple shapes. Yes, I know those shapes probably took forever to be made, but you get my point.
The truth is that no one can do it. Every logo ever designed is garbage.
HotSwat ยท 143 points ยท Posted at 16:04:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I try my best to learn about as much artistic disciplines as possible, but when I got to graphic design I was overwhelmed by unexpected information. Typography alone is a subtle science.
sightlab ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 22:24:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've been studying type for years, I hand draw type for a lot of projects, I'm pretty confident in my typography skills and I still don't consider myself a type guy. There are dudes in my office who can take my best client-loved efforts, change a couple lines here & there and make me realize that my effort was...meh, not bad. People think graphic design is just putting stuff here & there, but there is a science to it.
I've dabbled in various types of art and design my whole life, worked in the sign business and have a graphic design diploma, and it's quite painful the things I've been trained to see. I've heard "if you really hate someone, teach them about kerning," and I have to admit, that's not a bad idea.
xorgol ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 19:35:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, most software I come across handles typography pretty decently by default. Not that it isn't hard, but software helps a lot.
Not downvoting, but I can tell why others did: most software that most people come across handles typography very poorly. I'm out of date, but last I looked, the only things available that could be made to do a decent job were InDesign, Scribus, and TeX.
nothing is worse than seeing what gets up-voted to front page on the art subs. NOTHING!
ETA: I just want to clarify that I have no problem with artists posting their work. That's great and critiques are an important step to developing as an artist. However, Art doesn't exist in a goddamn vacuum - there are principles that make art "good" or "bad" that can exist independently of subjective enjoyment. But for some reason /r/Art and the like are places where any bit of disagreement or even critique can be met with a weird hive mentality of "I LIKE IT AND IT'S MY OPINION SO YOU'RE WRONG".
[deleted] ยท 242 points ยท Posted at 18:03:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I seriously can't follow any popular art subs or anything of the like. It's all incredibly amateur high school work or photographic realism that makes it to the top, or some edgy watercolor splash paintings that try to desperately look energetic.
Sanster ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 23:47:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Elephants with butterfly wings for ears, painted with watercolor. Photo taken at an angle, showing all of their pencils.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:24:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Omg stop. My friends think this kind of stuff is real art and this is what real artists do.
There's music that can sound good and be enjoyable to people, but that doesn't make it "good music."
In music, there are certain objective things people can look at to determine if something is "good" or not, such as chord progression. There's a fair bit of pop I enjoy listening to, but somebody who understands music can't really say that pop (as a whole) is objectively better than something like progressive rock, jazz or classical music. The complexity and diversity in the music itself just isn't there.
But that doesn't mean you can't enjoy it. It just means that there are certain categories it doesn't do as well as other music. Classical is better musically speaking compared to ska, but I still listen to ska because it's fun and enjoyable to me.
Fair enough, but I don't think you can objectively judge some music to be better then others. You can objectively judge the rhythm complexity, the chord progression, the build ups and what not, but at the I end of the day, nothing makes one song or genre better then another, because music is, at it's core, subjective. You can give a monkey a simple math equation and he can solve it (as math is 100% objective), but you cannot give a monkey a piece of rip-your-dick-off Mozart masterpiece symphony and seriously expect it to judge it to be better then the latest pop song by the biggest brightest newest boy band made up exclusively of 14 year old males. There's simply nothing to objectively judge music by. Although I don't think you should have been down voted
My point was that there is something you can objectively judge music by.
Music theory isn't purely subjective. There is a methodology behind what makes something sound good. Sure, there is some subjectivity to what people find personally enjoyable, but if you study music theory, even at a super basic level, you'll learn that there's a very logical set of baseline principles for writing music that will sound pleasing to the ear.
It sounds snobbish, but people who haven't learned it just don't understand it. There is a lot of objectivity to what makes something sound good. I only have a super, super basic understanding of music theory but I know enough to say that music being only subjective or having nothing objective to judge by is simply not true.
This video could help a bit. The chord progression they demonstrated is very popular, because it universally sounds good, and a person with a trained ear would be able to hear how prevalent it is across music. But it's very generic and uninteresting.
You could write a song only using that chord progression and it can sound pleasing, but it'd be very boring and lazy from a musical perspective, i.e. not good music. That's what I mean.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:22:06 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You're just not right. I hold a degree in classical composition, obviously there are lots of ways to describe music very specifically but you're insane if you think these terms are used as an objective measure of quality. The idea is totally absurd.
The principles of music theory are descriptive, not prescriptive. They aren't hard rules and they've virtually all been broken by composers widely considered genius.
I didn't word it well. I'm not saying there're hard rules of writing that all music must live by, but that there are objective things like ACE being a chord or resolving a note that sound good. Music is very mathematical when you look at the frequency of sound and how notes mesh together. There is objectivity to music, it's why a toddler banging on a piano isn't good while a properly written piece with melody and rhythm is.
I brought up chord progression not to say "this chord progression is objectively better than that one," but more to say "variation in chord progression is probably better than no variation at all." Not a hard rule, you probably know something that doesn't follow that rule that is extremely good, but as a basic guideline that will probably work out well. Though I suppose that depends on what you value in "good music," so it's still subjective in that sense.
Like, Whip/Nae-nae is catchy and a lot of fun because of the dance attached to it, but I don't think I'd call it musically good or interesting.
sidenote: this isn't even quite what I was talking about initially. I remember a year back when some guy was blowing watercolor around to make pokemon portraits and shit was being lost left and right by redditors.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:51:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What is wrong with it? I think it is beautiful
RJWolfe ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:53:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nothing. I never said anything bad about it.
It's quite beautiful.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:50:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I couldn't pull that off, can't be that easy to make
Alright, I've got a handful of illustrative paintings online that I'm allowed to share. Iris, hoverbike helmet, and Randy. This last one is the post that got nailed for supposedly being fan art. I'm not in charge of writing for this project, only the illustration. We're a four man team and we've been running ourselves into the ground with pre production for a little over a year now. It's an exciting feeling to be getting close to publishing online.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 20:01:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Say what you will but the giant cats work was fucking awesome.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:56:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's why I subscribe to /r/doodles. It's nothing more than time wasting stuff. Although. Some are pretty cool.
juixe ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:16:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone thinks they're Basquiat
Brio_ ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:11:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
how many realistic monochrome pencil drawings of emma watson does the world need though..... its the same shit all over instagram as well, a lot of people seem to feel the need to draw realistic pencil portraits of actors/musicians and update with a new pic every 5 pencil strokes... its not interesting and doesnt say anything. Its just a reproduction of what exists already. just my thoughts on it anyway, i think its a fad!
Brio_ ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 23:37:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I personally think it's shit as well but it is no worse than what a lot of people call "real" art.
nandhuco ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:00:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Real" art also is a portrait of Emma Watson, but with a background.
Eh...I don't know. When it's just a straight up copy of someone else's art/photo, that seems worse to me. It wouldn't be impossible to collage other photos together to create something new-ish...like drawing all of the James Bonds together (or something like that) instead of just drawing individual actors/head shots all the time. But yet it's always skilled but thoughtless copying of someone else's art.
[deleted] ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 20:21:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's art it's just really awful, cliche, super easy to make, devoid of uniqueness art. It's like pop music. It's just not the best place to browse I feel as a professional painter.
Pilipili ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 21:24:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Which places do you like browsing then ? Honest question.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 21:29:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly, Facebook and artists' actual websites. There are good groups on Facebook such as Hi Resolution Painting Close-ups, Today's Inspiration, and a whole host of others. The websites tend to be great because the work uploaded is of high quality resolution. If nothing else a simple bing/flickr search tends to be great for photographs of a particular person's work. Also.....galleries. Museums. Anywhere you can find professional artists of all kinds posting tends to be very good i.e. old Conceptart.org
Pilipili ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:33:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks for the recommendations.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 21:37:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No problem! I mostly learned about different artists just from working with artists that recommended me stuff, but stuff gets spread around really fast when you have a lot of art buddies on Facebook and the likes. Artstation.com is probably the best website to see entertainment/commercial art work that I know of right now.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:33:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like your comparison is a disservice to pop music. While some of it is bag, a lot have artistic merit.
Brio_ ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 21:05:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yet we're talking about that art an not your art, so I guess it wins?
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:17:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I'm sure all that talk is generating the watercolor splashers a moderate living wage. rolls eyes
Brio_ ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:23:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Are you saying something isn't art if it doesn't produce an income?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:27:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I never said that, I'm just saying there's more merit to someone's work if they're experienced and make their living through it rather than making edgy cliche splash paintings for karma.
Brio_ ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:33:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most artists who make money in the world are making money through shitty advertisements or generic entertainment.
[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 21:36:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And that's still a lot more merit than the stuff being posted on /r/art, since most of that is an extremely non-professional low level version of what would be seen in those settings.
Brio_ ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:41:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Making money in art doesn't give it more merit.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:10:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You seem a bit confused as to how easy it is to work professionally as an artist. The gulf in class between financially successful artists and those who aren't isn't as great as you're making out.
Your disdain for /r/art is weird given you linked to http://www.conceptart.org as a better site and half the shit on the front page could have come from a teenagers DeviantArt account too.
Besides that if you're talking shit about artists and pointing to specific examples you should show something of your own.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:10:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I said the old conceptart.org, not the current. I wouldn't post my own because...well, it's a Reddit account that I want anonymous. You don't have to believe my work is good. Regardless, half the art on the front page of CA.org in its modern phase is still miiiiiiiiiiiiles ahead of what you would see teenagers doing on deviant art. I think if you had any real experience in illustration/design especially that you would know that.
And yes, the gulf truly is large. There are not many financially successful artists compared to the amount of people posting work on the internet, and especially /r/art. I doubt the vast majority even make minimum wage by comparison to the hours they put in. Out of my graduating class of about 200 art majors, only about 3 of us make a living off of it and that's not uncommon. Maybe 2 of us make above 30$ an hour equivilant/selling paintings for 2k++.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:12:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hyperbole, I mentioned DA for that reason (mostly teenagers and starters). Point was ca.org is a funny reference considering the shade you're throwing at /r/art, there's shit on both, makes your animosity to one and not the other seem weird.
My comment about financial success was geared more at graphic design, you're probably right about selling paintings specifically. But if you know the basics of Photoshop or Illustrator and you have a degree chances are you can get a good paying job no matter how shit you are.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:01:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I definitely don't like the modern CA.org so I'm not sure why you think I have animosty towards just /r/art.
Yeah I know nothing about graphic design, I'm talking illustration and gallery work
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:24:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My mistake then, I lost track of the comment chain and typed that part more in response to the original comment (mentioned graphic and product design as well as illustrations).
Us graphic designers definitely have it easier getting work. It's insane how many times I've seen web based companies grab someone from a completely unrelated role and "train" them from scratch to be the in-house graphic artist.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:39:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I've seen graphic jobs being hired in every city. If you tried to find illustration or entertainment art related jobs outside of Seattle/LA-irvine area/Austin/NYC (in the states) GOOD luck. Where I come from in Orlando there'd be a max of maybe 5 jobs ever hiring for that kind of thing without guaranteed pay.
What's the point of drawing photorealistic shit when you can just take a photo? God I hate shit like that.
Boukish ยท 33 points ยท Posted at 21:15:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well, you can photorealistically depict things that don't and potentially can't exist, which means you can't just take a photo of it.
And in order to get that good, you have to do a bunch of renderings of things that do exist, possibly using real photos as reference. And as you go through this practice, you get asked the annoying question "jeez, why don't you just take a photo?"... for the millionth time. That's after you've toiled for a long time and reached a level of competence where people could even complain that you could have just taken a photo.
Yamez ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 00:35:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wait wait wait...what you're saying is all those photorealistic paintings and drawings are a way of developing the technique necessary to broaden your capabilities as an artist. Does that mean that technique is important to art?
nandhuco ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:01:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A photo-realistic painting is very different from a photo (Not talking about people copying photos tho)
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:21:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:14:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
UGH this annoys me so much. I feel like when most people think of "skilled artist" they think of photorealistic pencil drawings of faces and those 500 color, no regard to color theory "I'm So RanDOm aNd THeSe aRe thE coLorS Of my MiNd" color splashed everywhere paintings. It's like that melted crayola shit that people think is art.
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 21:12:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Rick and Morty Meet Hermione [Watercolor](NSFW)"
[deleted] ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 17:32:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
The most popular art on Reddit is either optical illusions or basic design or draghtmanship. Post most 20th century modern art and everyone criticizes it from a position of ignorance of its history and claim a child could do it, based on a tiny photo on a website with bad color reproduction. Reddit hates anti intellectualism unless it is art.
Psudopod ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:05:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh thank fuck I'm not alone in thinking that... Great, it looks realistic, crisp, clean, dramatic lighting, sexy, feminine, with just enough nsfw to get a little attention and a tag without being outright pornographic. But... I just described half the shit that gets real popular, so what's the point in even clicking the link if I already know what I'll be seeing? What is new here?!
If you only want to see completely original works I've got some bad news for you.
Psudopod ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:10:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I just want to see works that do not fit that narrow definition. They is why I unsubbed from the art subreddit and went to an art gallery.
Wow, it was like when things are not catering to reddit's shit taste I can actually get some variety. Wow, some of this work means something more than "I wish I could do character design for a video game but they keep telling me my sexy women are too generic!"
At a local, free art museum, I even saw a work that was realistic, crisp, clean, sexy, feminine, with just enough nsfw to get a little attention without being outright pornographic. It was also 30 feet tall, featuring a black woman, and placed next to portraits of kings in a similar realistic style and size. Intentionally imitating previous works, yet 10x more original than anything I see on /r/art.
I guess I should be happy that I'm uneducated because it lets me enjoy that amateur trash.
cassassa ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 18:33:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I work in environmental graphics and all the time we see companies going 'oh, we can do that easy!' And then slapping badly kerned, under sized text on the wall with some stock message about innovation and calling it a day. Yay team!
[deleted] ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 20:45:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My favorite is when people think that digital art is "cheating" because they somehow think that full blown illustrations come out of clicking a few buttons on Photoshop or something.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:05:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I hate this so much!! Or they place more value on some charcoal drawing with shitty fundamentals because it's "real media" and therefore takes more skill.
Like yeah, it's easier to make it look more polished in a shorter amount of time, but you can still tell if there are glaring mistakes in composition, perspective and anatomy. Also, I might even argue that simple drawings are harder on a tablet since it's so slippery and you're looking at a screen and not at your hand. I'm actually really impressed when someone does a great sketch exclusively digitally rather than scanning something in first.
artifex0 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:46:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's like arguing that a novel is more impressive if the author wrote it with a quill pen instead of a word processor.
The things that make art impressive or not have nothing to do with how tedious it was to create.
The things that make art impressive or not have nothing to do with how tedious it was to create.
No, but surely you can have a preference for a particular medium?
artifex0 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:17:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You can, but if that preference is based on how difficult a medium is to work with, then you're judging art based on how patient the artist is, not on how much skill they display or how impressive the piece is on it's own merits.
I'm just a high school hobbyist but I find that digital is even harder. Throwing a bit of paint on the canvas can easily look aesthetically pleasing but with Photoshop you have to know exactly what you want. In my case at least.
Saoren ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:32:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
in some ways id say its harder, while you have more freedom to clean up mistakes and change things, in many ways digital art tends to lend itself to perfection. while this differs based on the type of art being done, if say, a vector based artwork is being done, inaccuracies can show very easily
[deleted] ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 18:24:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep. As a graphic designer, people try to basically use you as some conduit who magically knows how to use Illustrator to make the thing that's in their head. Except the thing that's in their head looks ugly and won't be legible. Whenever you do design work, you get about twenty opinions from everyone and their wives, mothers, dogs, second cousins etc - and none of them are designers or have any idea what they're talking about.
sprogger ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:36:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"never design by committee"
lilaspy ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 19:32:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh god, yes. And even when they hire a graphic designer, they don't listen to advice but wonder why the finished product looks like a soggy piece of bread thrown on a window. ITS BECAUSE GOLD TEXT LOOKS TACKY, SHERYL!
IT LOOKS BAD BECAUSE YOU KEEP MAKING IT TOO BIG FOR IT TO BE READABLE FROM TWO HUNDRED FEET AWAY, AND WHY THE HELL IS THAT TEXT CENTERED WHEN THAT TEXT IS LEFT-ALIGNED, OH MY GOD, WHY IS IT GREEN AND RED AND TEAL WHAT ARE YOU DOING, NO, NO, NO, THAT 3D TEXT PRESET LOOKS AWFUL WHY DID YOU ADD FIFTEEN THINGS THAT DON'T NEED TO BE HERE
"What was that?"
"Nothing."
"Do you have a problem with it?"
"No. I was just saying that it was really eye-grabbing."
blivet ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:08:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And even when they hire a graphic designer, they don't listen to advice
This is why I got out of design work. The people who were paying for my expertise wouldn't listen to me. I got sick of producing crap under duress.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:00:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There's no winning. If you make it exactly to their specifications and it's godawful ugly, it's your fault. If you realize it's gonna be ugly and make some changes and they don't like it, it's your fault.
Adding to this: Making comics, graphic novels, or manga. You really can't make it in the comic world by just doing pin-ups (excluding cover artists), and no, your story about the cyber vampire mafia isn't going to be a hit. And no, you're not going to move to Japan and make manga. I've seen one white person with the skills (both art and language) necessary to be a successful manga-ka, and she can't keep up with the deadlines that manga readers are used to.
this also need to be a PSA in animation programs. I know you like Naruto a whole bunch but it's just not going to happen.
Saoren ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:08:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
a few things to add to this. first although here have been manga published by Americans, chances are you arent going to ever really publish a manga in say a magazine like shonen jump. also its a lot of work, even if you were able to do this you have to work pretty much all the time. i would suggest if people wanted to try, make a webcomic and if its popular enough get people to pay via patreon or something. however, professional comics tend to have a group of people working on it rather than just one person alone.
Being 'creative' on demand is so hard especially with tight deadlines. Just because you like to draw in highschool and think that you're good doesn't mean anything professionally and commercially >_<
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:39:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Our office regularly hires for not only graphic design work, but also marketing, social media development, and web development.
Everyone lists 'Photoshop' and 'Illustrator' as their job skills. Yet, once they're asked about those applications' most basic functions, they try to bullshit their way through as if we don't know any better. It's actually gotten so bad that we've had to develop pre-interview tests that test their knowledge of Adobe apllications' interfaces.
Saoren ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:26:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
do you not require them to show any previous work they have done?
Freelance illustrator, I absolutely hate getting appointments when the first thing they ask is how much it will cost. It's like, I have no idea, I don't even know what I'm making yet. And then they want a sizeable piece done with an expensive medium of something I don't even enjoy drawing. And THEN have the audacity to offer me $50 for a piece that would take 30 hours to completely finish.
TL;DR: being an artist is annoying as fats
Saoren ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:15:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
that sounds irritating. people should realize its a job. do they think they are paying for like a caricature at a fair or something? i haven't seen your artwork but assuming you are skilled, spending 30 hours on an illustration should make the commission price worth several hundred dollars at the least
Can confirm, I'm studying to be one right now, a graphic designer. So many people come in and just put a pre made filter or pre made anything on there work. They think they are good also! Then would ask how to zoom in everyday on Photoshop...
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:20:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
everyone and their mother tells me they wrote or illustrated a picture book. as someone who is a professional illustrator (13 yrs) and knows how hard and intellectually challenging and underpaid and unsustainable it is as a career, this makes me cringe every time.
Worst part about being in the arts is that if you're like 99% of the rest of us that are you'll never feel like you're good enough to be. You just keep trucking
Graphic design degree and still cannot do most graphic design stuff very well myself. I can tell bad design from good design but shit if I can come up with original ideas myself.
fckdup ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:48:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh god this sh*t is hard. Best I've ever done was design my mother's tattoo, she wanted a tattoo to combine her love of all her children(I have two siblings) into one tattoo. I sketched up a ton of little designs and by pure fluke I came across a lovely little conglomeration of our middle initials that formed this little heart. Now my mom wants me to design my dad a tattoo for his heart surgery survival and I've just been completely stumped for designs.
Is it okay if I'm currently trying to get a degree in one of them (product design)?
Saoren ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:03:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
im just saying its hard. i feel like people from an outside perspective tend to have the idea that any type of art based jobs are inherently easier even though it couldn't be further from the truth
I definitely agree, honestly sometimes I don't feel like people see my course as something to be taken seriously when really it's tough as balls sometimes.
I've been writing HTML and designing my own web pages for close on 15 years now and I have yet to make anything other than ugly shit. I know how to make most anything happen on the page but I have none of the ability required to forge that into a design.
That's why I do it for fun and not for a living. I'll stick to building the integration pieces.
topright ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:59:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Powerpoint. Fucking powerpoint.
Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should.
I never realized this until after my sister went through DAAD education. That shit is complicated, they think about such minor shit that you would never have come to mind but in reality makes a massive difference.
Yes, you can be a professional product designer. And get paid for it, you just have to be good enough to do it. And during school put in more hours than there are in the day.
lunapuff ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:50:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The New Zealand flag is in the process of changing at the moment. A committee consisting of media personalities chose the final designs, and most of the nation loves them because they know nothing of good design. New Zealand will end up with a tourist dish-towel flag design because no designers were involved and they are asking Joe Public what they want
Not photography either. People these days make business facebook pages calling themselves a photographer before they even learn how to use their camera.
Not only do they do a rubbish job for the clients they bring in, they distort views held by the community about the professionalism of photographers in General.
They also frequent groups wanting to buy a new camera because their photos aren't good enough. In reality they could have any camera in the world and I'd take better photographs with a starting dslr kit or even a point and shoot with manual controls. It's the photographer not the camera.
rj20876 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:01:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think I could pull it off if I had talent or work ethic.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:58:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's a good thing. Now you realize you actually suck, and now you realize how much work actually goes into being good at something.
hjf11393 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 00:37:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This thread is also full of jobs I never assumed I could do - I don't know anyone that thinks writing/art/film is an easy career choice. It is sometimes seen as a "fun" career choice but if you tell someone you want to get into any of the Arts fields they will usually remind you how tough and competitive it is.
I was expecting answers like janitorial work or sewage. Hell, I was awful at sweeping until someone showed me a proper technique.
notLOL ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:57:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
After reading this thread I realized most of this shit is, in fact, not that hard to do. Writing a book? Not that tough if you are a good writer and have the passion, and free time to put into it. Acting? Some people are naturals and can jump into it, I know I'm pretty good. Web design? I'm a programmer but there are a shitload of easy to use and learn frameworks that can get a beginner to publish a site in less than a day with tutorials. Law? Lots of it can be done without a lawyer, given proper diligence and research - I've saved thousands in lawyer fees by doing my own paper work. Etc. I'm not saying everything is easy, but this list is basically a list of things that people can learn about and practice on their own, or are things you can be "a natural" at, like art or acting, etc. So really, there is good reason why some redditors find this stuff easy.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:11:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
nah, I just think the reason why most things that are posted here are because they are things that you can do professionally without as much training as others, just by having the talent or intelligence. plenty of people have broken into these fields without a background in it, which is why lots of people think they can do all this shit. In general, any random person can't go and make a piece of art but there are definitely naturals out there with no training that can. I'm not saying professionals who have trained for years aren't better, or have a massive edge, or make up 95% of the each respective field, I just think the ones listed are way more susceptible to a person being able to do the work, than say, a surgeon or something.
Acting is more difficult than it looks. When it's well done it looks so natural it seems like it'd be easy. The problem is we're all wired to spot fake performances and hone that skill to varying degrees. It makes the job far more difficult than it seems on the surface.
tibsalot ยท 1648 points ยท Posted at 13:48:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
There's a certain tone that people don't realize they have when acting. They think they look real but in reality they over dramatize words and sound like they are reading from a script. It's so difficult to be convincing.
You also run into problems from the opposite direction. Some people try to mumble and grumble their way to realism, but there's no point if you can't be heard/understood. Especially on stage.
There is also a huge difference in stage acting and acting for a camera.
stage acting is way overdone, so you can see and hear everything, and it feels normal at your distance, as where cameras need a lot less and movements and tone are much less dramatic, but come across natural as well.
[deleted] ยท 33 points ยท Posted at 20:42:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Some can do both, like Ian McKellan, Patrick Stewart, Benedict Cumberbatch, Alan Rickman, David Bowie, etc.
magnora7 ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 21:37:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I see Ian as more of a stage actor who happens to also be good at TV, he still always has that "stage presence" and the voice to match in my opinion. I think Stewart is a little more dynamic. I guess I've never seen Stewart on the stage though
You actually can really see the stage actor in all of those peoples performances. We just tend to like the over the topness of those people, so we let it go.
Al Pacino probably should have been a stage actor.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 22:02:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Scent of a woman could have been a play. Glengarry Glen Ross was a play before it became a movie.
I remember reading about the film/play on wikipedia that a reviewer or someone jokingly referred to GGR as "Death of a Fucking Salesman", presumably because of the heavy use of profanity and the similar themes of a salesman's career going down the shitter. I'm hoping I didn't imagine reading that and that others also read that too.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:50:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Britishname Complicated
BeastDen ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:34:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The extent to which what you say is true is highly dependent on both the text & the stage itself. It was, for example, not very true at all for the acting I did in a ~90 person, 3/4 round theater. Even if I stood all the way up stage center I was still only about 6 feet from an audience member. There's a lot more you can do in a space like that.
But really we're all doing the same thing, it's just whether there's a big stage, small stage, camera, or something different, part of being a good actor is being mindful of the technical requirements of your performance like being on your mark & in your light, or speaking louder in a bigger room or being more subtle when the camera is on your face. The real difference is that one shot may only be a few seconds. If you're a lead in a stage piece you may only have a few minutes "out of character" in the whole 2 hours. There's a whole different type of preparation & stamina for that or for doing the same 30 second shot 30 times until it's perfect.
Historically, you can see in the early days of film how ridiculous and overblown the stage actors looked when attempting the transition.
I had the hardest time going from several years of camera work, back to stage work (slapstick comedy, no less!). It is definitely a completely different skill set, from "just think a thought, and the camera will catch it," to full-body contortions, projecting the voice from the diaphragm without shouting or straining... Every rehearsal was a workout.
But you should still have a feel as to where the 'eyes' are. That way when you are done executing the 'dramatic' turn or jump you land in the field.
BabyCat6 ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 17:43:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Stage actors and film actors are so different. You get a film actor on stage and they don't have enough spunk or volume, but when you try to film a stage actor the move off frame or are to dramatic.
It's not that different. I would say that most film actors have also done it on stage. It's a lot easier to cross over from stage to film than it is to cross over from rugby league to union, or canadian football to american football...
AxmxZ ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:13:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The skillsets are different, true, but actors often do both.
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 18:16:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Idk, I've never been able to understand a word that Tom Hardy says, and he's considered to be a great actor. I like Hardy btw, I just can't understand him
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:39:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lol shit lost count
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:53:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I like the idea that you've been keeping one finger raised for each movie since A New Hope came out, and somewhere along the line you accidentally raised an extra one.
To be fair, Harrison Ford and Alec Guinness both criticized the dialogue of the Original Trilogy. Ford even said "You can write this crap but you can't say it." And Guinness admitted he phoned in his acting for the movies.
I think it had something to do with story changes that made his character a bit less intelligent and gave him less agency in how he acted each scene. Lucas is pretty infamous for insisting on certain pronunciations and on over-directing how each scene be acted. He also does WAYYYYYY too many scenes with both characters just kinda talking and walking around spouting exposition.
Bingo. The key to making a great film is to find a bunch of people who are great at their particular role, and let them do their thing under your direction. Lucas was built up to be this creative genius who could never be wrong, so everyone on the set sort of just went along with what he said. I don't think it's necessarily his fault; I really believe that he could've taken constrictive criticism if anyone had the stones to challenge him.
They just missed the mark. In my opinion, Lucas was more concerned with world building and selling merchandise (allllllll the gungan stuff and cool Naboo fighters) as opposed to story telling.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:28:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Shitty budgets? It was Star Wars. Movies like that (plus Avengers and Batman and whatnot) pretty much have blank checks.
I watch a lot of zombie movies, even 1 star rated films. As a result, I have watched lots of bad acting. A common error is speaking too fast. Real conversation has pauses, ums, and thoughtful reflection. Bad acting is saying your line as soon as possible
[deleted] ยท 95 points ยท Posted at 18:01:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
TIL Christopher Walken is the world's greatest actor
I don't know if it's really that way in acting but in writing they tell you to do the exact opposite and make everyone talk perfect unless it's part of their character to have a stutter or something.
I also find scripting issues in movies. Maybe lines that sounded OK on paper, but once read and acted out they sound really forced or like nothing anyone would actually say. It bothers me that nobody on set cared enough to switch the phrase around so it sounds more natural.
fenean ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:52:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
yeah I was wondering, if it's badly writen, do actor stop and tell the producer "listen here, it sounds stupid, I'm not playing in a voiced-over infomercial!"
mediaboy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:15:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Depends on the actor, the producer, the script, etc.
The more famous you are, the more experienced your career, the less likely they are to pat you on the head and say "that's nice. Now say the fucking line"
I'm not Shatner, but the English teachers sure wanted me to be.
Tiny_Rat ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:25:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
People do something like that when they sing, too. You can always hear when someone is focused on hitting all the notes/showing off vs. actually performing the song.
There's a bit like that in the Wedding Ringer where the bridesmaids write a song and one of them decides that she will be beyonce and go for all these warbling low notes and over pronunciation of random syllables
techlos ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:21:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
There's actually a funny running gag on the show Leverage that references this. The show is about a group of conmen that scam bad people, and Sophie, the group's grifter is absolutely amazing at playing up to roles or stereotypes, whether she's a Southern Belle, a European Duchess, a scared and confused secretary, or anything else she has to play.
The second she sets foot on an actual stage as an actress? It looks and sounds pretty much like this scene from Black Knight:
That is like my biggest fear in my drama class. Over dramatizing my script so that it is unrealistic or laughable. I have an exam show on Monday, and I am playing a angry drug lord whose dialogue includes yelling at a guy loudly and passionately while threatening to beat him to a pulp.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:46:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a funny and dramatic fella, but I cannot act. I hate it, I hate it. The second someone points a camera at me my mind switches off. Because of my humor, friends have wanted me to do this-and-that with them for little projects here and there. I've always tried explaining to them that I'm really bad and uncomfortable with it. I just openly acknowledge that it's not for me, and that I am not at all interested in it.
So kinda like when you sing along in the car. You think you sound great but everyone else cant wait to get out.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:47:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's the problem that people have in general with the arts. It's not like the end product is a superhuman product that can't be replicated, but anything good takes a transcendent amount of concentration that normal people don't have.
Also, it's really difficult to act well when the writer is shit and won't let you deter from the script. I've had a script where as a normal, average intelligence, high school aged kid, I am supposed to use words like perhaps, morose, and other totally unnatural words American dialect. The writers don't write like people talk, they write like they are writing a book.
I feel like I don't know how to recognize run-of-the-mill bad acting. Like of course I know the acting is bad if it's "Oh god, oh man!" levels of bad, but people talk about performances by established actors in big-name movies being bad and most of the time I am like..."huh?" Specific examples are escaping me right now, but one I can think of is old lady Rose from Titanic.
Watch some fan movies on youtube. Especially anything Silent Hill. They all suck so fucking much I had to write my own just to prove to myself I could do it better. Maybe someday I'll actually film it and realize it sucks ass too.
I was really only talking about the fan-made movies on youtube (mostly in the context of bad acting, although the scripts themselves generally aren't any better). As a long-time Silent Hill fan, I could rant about those Hollywood abominations all day (like a slurry neckbeard sailor), but I'll refrain for now.
[deleted] ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 23:36:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Go to a high-school musical or play. For some reason, there's almost always one person who can act decently. Not zero, not two, one. And the rest are always terrible.
masta666 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 21:14:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Watch The Room, then you'll truly understand what bad acting is.
Spot what they are doing with their body. Are they animated? Are they using props to tell a story. Or is their acting just from the neck up.
I've been noticing this more and more from the British actors that are coming from overseas. The neck and up acting. Classically trained actors know how to use their voice fantastically, mostly because you need to when you are stage trained. But they are stiff when it comes to them moving around.
That's the difference that I notice between American actors and British actors. American actors are more animated. They'll use their whole body. Sometimes this can comes across as fidgety. Especially when they are playing against British actors. But I prefer that style to British style. And then there are British actors who have adopted a more American style when they act, like Gary Oldman but they are rare. It's more like Redmayne and Hiddleston. I love those actors but after watching an American actor like Sam Rockwell, go, go, go, it makes British acting that much more glaring.
[deleted] ยท 38 points ยท Posted at 22:59:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I've grown up acting, involved in theatre since I was 8, and movement when acting is not natural for most people. People deliver their lines, they get the tones, the facial expressions, maybe sometimes even hand movements, but unless you've been doing it long enough to have had it drilled into you, people DON'T MOVE.
You can really see it in people who are new to, or just not very good at, acting. Blocking is so important for directors just because most actors don't move themselves half the time!
I know you're probably referring to physicality and using your entire body to perform, but it just made me think of that as something that really sets actors apart.
It's even harder for people who naturally don't talk with their hands. I can easily have a conversation without moving my hands, but it comes across as really stiff when I'm delivering a monologue. I basically have to choreograph my hand movements on emphasized words, but it takes a lot of practice to make it look natural.
No, that's exactly what I mean. They don't move. They don't move around the set. They don't do anything outside of saying their lines and acting from the neck up.
And then you watch someone like Dustin Hoffman or Marlon Brando and they would go around and just move. Even in quiet scenes like for example, in A Streetcar named Desire, Stanley is having a scene with Blanche and while the two are almost face to face talking, Brando just reaches up and picks up some lint off of the actress' shoulder. It may sound simple. People do that in real life. But I haven't seen anyone do that in a movie before. It was such a little thing but that movement made the scene feel more real. It wasn't just acting from the neck up, there was movement. There was life.
And I see American actors do things like this more than British actors. That seemingly mindless movement. I like that. It feel more real.
Reytho ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:38:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For me it's...
a) An actor fully inhabiting the character. Almost beyond acting. Jack Gleeson as Joffrey in Game of Thrones, for instance.
b) Irrevocably bad acting. See Jake Lloyd in The Phantom Menace. Just a human saying lines written by another human.
c) Everyone else, basically. Just that general actinginess.
Watch anything by Tommy Wiseau if you want to see some bad acting as a baseline for what bad acting looks like. "I did not hit her, I did not!" link for the lazy https://youtu.be/if5eP3crl_4
I've seen The Room many times, but that's not "normal bad," that's advanced bad.
--lI ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 20:16:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I would go farther and say you never appreciate good acting until you see your terrible acting. In other words, filming yourself acting then watching how terrible you really are.
apm588 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:24:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This realization came to me watching Star Wars screen tests. They showed a bunch of woman who were auditioning for Leia, and then you see Carrie Fisher deliver the same lines, and it just clicked. Everything else was so over the top and melodramatic
That's not true at all- good acting is really notable regardless!
[deleted] ยท 362 points ยท Posted at 14:43:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Plus it's a very long journey from 'I understand what this character is about / is going through" to "I can make that show up in my voice and body realistically", and actors have to keep a million other things in their head to make a whole performance run smoothly.
ianmilham ยท 221 points ยท Posted at 16:09:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've been on some film sets and that really drives home what a skill it is. To be emotionally true in the scene, take after take, sometimes with long breaks inbetween, is remarkable.
I've also done casting and it's crazy when you see a parade of people perform the same thing in a row. The differences in skill/choices become very apparent.
So what kind of choices have people made that stood out to you? Different choices, ones that take risks, sure. But what kind of risks did you see were the 'right' risks?
Really depends on the material, but usually its when they choose to be natural and real, even if it's not as showy or memorable. Or when they've taken their time with a moment before delivering the line, which can be really hard to do when the other person reading isn't acting with you but just reading flat.
Sometimes actors go against the tone that most everyone else chooses, like playing something sinister-funny instead of funny-funny, maybe without even realizing it. And i've thought, "well, we definitely don't want it to be like THAT in the final thing, but that was interesting. I didn't even realize this scene could feel like that."
Like I remember once an actress who just had sort of a hard look and I think didn't really want to be there, and played the scene with a little bit of distance and frustration. It made the character feel like she had more history and a little danger, even with the exact same words. It also felt like she wouldn't be great to work with, but it opened my eyes as to more possibilities with the character.
Thank you so much. This was extremely informative to me as an actor and very detailed. I appreciate it. Being real is the biggest challenge about acting and one that I'm definitely currently struggling with lending to my performances.
What would you say to an actor who doesn't know what this final picture is going to be like but wants to present themselves in a way that fits into your final picture? Too many times I've been to auditions when I just want to scream 'TELL ME WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE AND I'LL DO IT' but obviously it's the good ones who know how to look for what they want and attempt to give it to them.
I can obviously only speak for myself, but I wasn't that worried about actors "doing it right" in the first auditions. No way could an actor have the context and time to really have a fair shot at that. I would usually play it like this:
1) Actor comes in, quick handshake, maybe a little small talk. Then they go thru the scene. No direction or teeing up from me.
2) If they were just obviously wrong for it for some reason, or just wrecked the scene, then that was it. If not, I'd give some light direction. Nothing crazy, but something different than what they just did. That direction wasn't necessarily in the real direction of the piece, although it usually was.
3) They'd go through it again. The point here was not really "did they get it right this time?", but more, did they take the direction? Did they actually do something different?
So in my head, I was more looking for other things than getting the performance right at that stage. Assuming they were in the ballpark for the role, I was looking for: Is this person able to get along? Can they suggest things and take suggestions? Do they have a point of view? Will they be a good partner in making something good? Are they dependable and flexible with their performance? Stuff like that.
The fact is, you can't really know the final picture like they do, and you could drive yourself crazy guessing. Better to make a (reasonable) choice and go with it, but be ready to try something else if they do guide you.
Excellent. Have the ability to take feedback and direction given, as well as the ability to make confident, real choices. I guess it sounds preachy and generic like all 'actor advice' but this practical experience really made me understand.
I'm at a sitcom and see some audition sessions. It really is amazing to see so many attempts at the same material, and usually only one or two actually get it. Sometimes it's just a good actor going for the role, but most of the time it's just bad acting.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:05:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was watching a behind the scenes of greys anatomy - and they had part of a table read on there. Sweet Jesus I they were sitting a table with their coffees eating an apple while fighting over something- and I was blown away. Going from 0 to 100 real fast. After watching that it was hard to believe they are actors not doctors.
(The man I'm describing was Eric Dane- holy shit- unbelievable)
Just directed a play that I wrote and in the proceeding withdrawals have been looking back at the videos I took of my cast at their auditions. I remember the audition process and hearing my pieces read over and over again and I distinctly remember learning to pick up on the small differences that brought out different sides to my characters.
We didn't give any of the auditionees the script until they arrived, after which point they had 15 minutes to look at it. Some people acted in ways that were cookie-cutter and similar to everyone else; others gave it their all and really connected with the script and those were the ones I ended up casting.
... man, I'm having hardcore withdrawals right now.
I might get some Reddit hate for bringing up the Big Bang Theory, but the episode of "Fun with Flags" shows this pretty nicely. In the episode, Sheldon is hosting a webshow and is noticeably awkward on camera, as would be expected of a non actor. Except he's an accomplished actor accurately portraying a camera shy novice, and it's done so well that you forget that it's a portrayal of a portrayal...
[deleted] ยท 450 points ยท Posted at 19:49:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
And that episode of Supernatural when Sam and Dean end up on the set of Supernatural and has to be Sam and Dean.
[deleted] ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 01:26:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I genuinely believe that Misha Collins is one of the greatest modern actors. He plays five different characters in the same outfit just by changing his inflection and mannerisms, yet all five are distinctly different and give the audience massively different feelings.
xNexx_ ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 01:46:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The best moments are when she has to pretend to be one character, pretending to be another character, pretending to be another character, and still manages to make it work.
Also that Supernatural episode where Sam and Dean end up in a paralel universe and then the actors have to play Sam and Dean playing the actors playing Sam and Dean badly.
I've always wondered that about various shows/movies. How meta it must be in an actor's head to be like "okay, so I'm a great actor playing a character who is also a great actor but the character is pretending to be terrible at acting".
Or if you dont want to sully yourself with BBT, watch The Lost Skeleton of Cadavra. Credits-to-credits acting so perfectly, purposefully bad that as a dramatic arts worker it blows my mind.
This is one of my biggest pet peeves. I've been acting and studying theatre for half my life. And I meet people all the time who are completely dismissive of the work and dedication that goes into preparing performances, or believe that they're on the same level as me because they did a couple plays in high school.
It makes me sound like a pretentious ass, but when you've put so much of yourself into something, it's hard not to be defensive of it.
I have a buddy who has been acting (semi) professionally since high school. I like going to his shows because he is really good and it's fun to see him do his thing. I'm always impressed with the sheer volume of text he must remember, to say nothing of how to get it across in a convincing way.
Seems like many/most of our friends don't take him very seriously and don't attend his shows much, if at all. It's kind of sad because my friend is really skilled and IMHO has a real talent. People for some reason think it's easy or they could do it just as well. It's not and they could not.
Thank you for this. You do not sound pretentious. It's understandable why you're frustrated.
I'm a musician, and I've put thousands of hours into practicing my instrument, and more than once I've run into some schmuck who thinks they're Hendrix or Slash because they know four chords on the guitar, or they can play Twinkle Twinkle Little Star on the piano and seem to think they're the same level as me, despite my 10+ years of musical training.
Or when they say something condescending like "Oh yeah, I did band band/orchestra/chorus in high school. That was where I stopped. Didn't realize some people made a career out of that!" Fuck off.
It's fine to enjoy those things, or use your past experience to get a conversation rolling, but some people just don't seem to realize how hard the arts are. And yes, some people do it professionally. It's a job, too.
Thank you! So much of this thread is filled with artists, it's really making me feel so much better and less alone, haha.
Sometimes I really don't think non-artists can understand. People who work a typical 9-5 don't often take their work home the same way artists do. It's hard to wrap your head around spending 8-12 hours a day working, collaborating and rehearsing, then going home and spending more time on it on your own, and pouring all of yourself into it. It's a whole lifestyle and identity. And it's pretty fucking insulting to then have someone just say, "oh, I'm just like you! I was in choir in school." There are worlds between us.
I'm loving the angry artists, too! I FEEL VALIDATED
I really have nothing against people who enjoy these things. You do community theatre? Awesome! Welcome to the club! You play piano for fun? Sweet! Let's talk about that! Just don't be a dick by implying that we do the same kind of work. No. That's why I do it for a living.
I really look forward to the day that professional artists are as respected and revered in their fields like doctors are. Farfetched, yes, but one can dream.
Oh, for sure! My SIL does community theatre and another friend takes improv classes for fun. And great! Awesome! Love it! Enjoy the arts, participate, appreciate - it's all good, and I totally encourage it. But, exactly like you said, I do it professionally, and that separates us.
I live in Canada, and Canadian theatre didn't really exist before the 80s, so I'm optimistic that myself and the other second-generation Canadian artists can begin to make more of a mark. Then I won't have to get the "aw, you act, that's adorable" at family gatherings, haha.
mediaboy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:45:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My pet hate is "that's nice, but we work proper jobs, so don't you come complaining about your work".
I like to do a thing where I describe my week as if I was working corporate, using corporate analogues. I've found that if you use the same language as them, most office workers tend to realise it's a job that isn't really that different for the most part. So take this week in December:
Monday: one of the companies that contracts my company has been doing some outreach recently to try and find some potential talent to invest in, and I got asked to help out. Commuted over to the other side of London and spent the morning discussing how we were going to approach it, and then the rest of the day getting started. Some promising people here, and good responses. Feel keen to continue. It's a bit of a long day though as I had a meeting that evening as well: I'm overseeing a small presentation for January and it's always good to get into the same room and check everything is coming along fine. There's a few issues but nothing we couldn't resolve. There's time for a pint at the local afterwards too, which is always appreciated after a 14 hour work day.
Tuesday: more outreach today. Building on what we were doing yesterday, we felt much more comfortable. Brief presentation to manager at the end to go over how we'd done it all: they seemed happy with our work. Then off to business meetings again: a new client expressed an interest in contracting us for a long-term and we need to negotiate a contract. I check my prices are still competitive and go from there. Everyone is happy, and the client puts ink on the paper: success!
Wednesday: it was supposed to be a quiet day after two long days, but I barely got into the office before the phone started ringing non-stop. Lawyer had finally finished processing some paperwork and there's a few issues with invoices that I've got to chase up. Better yet, one of my employees is moving on in a few weeks so we're shifting his workload around. A few clients are unhappy with the change, but seem more willing to discuss than I feared. We arrange a meeting for them to meet his replacement on neutral turf and start building a rapport.
Thursday: it's a quiet day today so I take an early lunch and wander off to one of the external sites I work in. It's always good to keep refreshing your professional skills, and pending an emergency there's no reason why I can't do this. We've also got to start looking at putting together some training courses for Spring, so I take my notes over and start poking around. I've just finished an outline when one of my clients rings me and asks if we could move a meeting up. I head off to their office immediately, only to discover that they haven't prepared anything, despite wanting to move it up. A waste of time, but I get paid for it nonetheless. They let me know they're off to the states for a month and we tentatively pencil in a followup meeting at the end of January.
Friday: an advertising company gets in touch and offers us what seems to be a good deal. Much of the morning is spent checking their legitimate and seeing if we can budget in extra marketing, and it's looking doubtful when the phone rings: one of our local competitors is having an emergency. They're supposed to be giving a short demo at a conference that evening, but they're lacking staff! I rustle up a few people and we hash out something appropriate for the event over the course of the afternoon. The conference manager is surprised to see us not them, but takes down our details after and says they might be in touch in the new year. Great news again, but I doubt really expect anything: they're a bit posh and fancy for a company as new as ours.
Saturday: it's the weekend, I hear, but that tends to just mean more paperwork. One of our major contractors missed a monthly meeting and we're having it virtually instead. A series of long emails fly back and forth and it emerged that a number of volunteers would like to be involved and my contractor is keen for me to support them. I drop emails off to the volunteers to get a better idea of what I'm working with before I start making any plans. I've also got some temp cover to arrange for holidaying staff, so I use the weekend to get in touch with weekday workers. One of them queries (in passing) an invoice they sent me, and after some checking it emerges that they haven't sent the invoice. Whoops. I ring the bank and arrange payment for them so that it arrives before Christmas, including small bonus. It's not significant, but good will is worth a lot.
Anyway; you get the gist. If I coached the job in professional terms people suddenly realised it wasn't just, yknow, "press one to get paid for your hobby"
mediaboy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:37:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
TLDR: Musicians (and many artists) struggle to be taken as a serious profession because they use casual language. If we, as artists, adopt the same set of language to describe the same set of events as "proper" professionals, then "proper" professionals tend to understand better how our job is also a "proper" job.
As a former pro-musician turned future med student, I hope it helps when I say, as much as people say getting into med school is hard (and it totally is, not bashing it), nothing has been as soul-crushing as pouring hours and hours into your instrument hoping to reach a certain level, and then realizing you're just still not there for some reason.
The ONLY time the pre-med process so far has resembled anything like music was when I had to take the MCAT and studied for about 4 hours a day. But even then, it wasn't as much pressure. And on that same note, getting rejected from your top med school choices hurts much less than not winning an audition or competition. I can't explain why it feels that way either. Case in point: I did a local competition for fun and didn't win (for reasons even the jury admitted had nothing to do with my playing) and cried for like 10 minutes. Rejected from like, all of my state medical schools and barely batted an eye.
Definitely will do! I'm not saying medicine is easy or whatever, I know it's extremely difficult. Just so far the process hasn't been as difficult as it's made out to be...and actually seeing how the majority of med students pass their boards, I'm not too worried about not passing...
Whereas I worried about my paycheck and auditions all the time because of all the BS reasons why it could go wrong.
Try passing the boards, having some sleep and managing to have a normal social life and keeping the interest in music alive. You will find it really occupying.
Let me give you some advice. Of all the arts out there medical science is the mistress who is the most difficult to satisfy. It takes a life time and then some to be truly exceptional in medicine, given that you are intelligent and hard working.
Well...I didn't have much of a social life in music either :( all that alone time practicing doesn't really lend itself to one. Or keeping interest in music. Hell, I don't play anymore because I'm so burned out and have no intention to.
Maybe the reason why I don't think it's so bad so far is because I'm used to not having a social life? Im a loser :(
The same is true for every profession in life. Try being a maitre'd and remember 10 orders with 10 diff specifications.
cASe383 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:18:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I did HS and community theater back in the day, and my experience there only reinforces how much dedication, training, and talent it takes to be a good actor. I have a lot of respect for the people who can do it well.
Your comment hit home with me. I read it and thought of my boxing. I've done it religiously for 8yrs and people try to dismiss my skill as something they can pick up in a couple of months. I get, "Oh you box? I've been in a few fights in my day, I know how to throw a punch." Fuck you no you don't! I've spent YEARS in the gym, practicing the same shit day and in day out. Bled, broke my nose. Sent low level pros packing. So you think you can do what I do? I should beat your ass just for the absurdity of that thought. Sorry you kind of touched a nerve, I can relate.
sightlab ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:16:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a terrific mimic...I can imitate people & performances down to tiny details. It's a gift/curse. But as many times as I've heard someone say "you should be an actor!" I know that's not my bag. Theres a vast gulf between spot-on mimicry, and the vast minutia of building and embodying a part, becoming invisible in a different personality and realistically reacting from inside the role. It's not pretentious to anyone who gets that various arts can be copied with relative ease but to be good takes dedication and training. Good actors are true artists, and it's one of the most amazingly intangible arts. I've been a graphic designer for almost half my life, and I feel the same way about people who think photoshop makes them good at what I do. Books, books, observation, practice and 2 decades of productive failure don't come with a software download.
I direct small stage and community theatre, and nothing is more infuriating to me than the amount of local actors who think they know it all for having survived a run or two. I know actors who never look genuine on stage, who always forget lines, who honestly believe they could pack up and work mainstage in a major market anytime they wanted.
And I, too, am viewed in my local community as an asshole for feeling that artists should never show complacency with their current level of skill.
I'm a working actor. Whenever people find out they always say how they've been thinking about becoming an actor. .. and they always ask "how much work could it be, really? "
Ugh... a lot of work. When I prep for series regular audition. You have under 48 hours to be off book (if you're smart) and be camera ready. That is very little time. The training it takes you to be able to do that quickly and have a strong audition is insane. Years of training and auditioning and learning from past mistakes... all for only opportunities to audition to work.
Not to mention. If you still have a day job... it's so much worse. And if you don't. ..The stress alone of not knowing when you're gonna work again would eat most people alive.
Exactly! And if you want to diversify which kinds of acting you do (stage, film, musicals, etc.), then you have to learn and accomplish different styles of performance and auditions, and they're each of them very dense and layered, with lots of history and unique competitions. It's crazy!
I have a day job and it's the worst. People always act so impressed and surprised when I tell them I also do theatre, and I'm like, "did you really think this retail job was my life's passion?"
I'm really scared to get to that level of acting where I completely lose myself in the character. So many great actors have done that and it really screwed up their life. I can get into the reality of the character but I am also aware of the reality of myself. Do I need to strive to lose myself or is my method working?
It depends on what method or style of acting works for you, ultimately.
My comment about losing myself wasn't in regards to losing my 'self' in a character, but in my work and passion. I have played characters that really got under my skin and affected me very deeply in my life outside of the role, but I have always been told to maintain "2% actor" at the forefront of my mind when performing. I wasn't taught method acting; the more I studied it in my undergrad, the more disturbing Strasberg's ideas became.
At the end of the day, it is acting. We perform different realities, tell stories, and hopefully entertain audiences. You don't need to tear yourself apart to do that. If whatever technique you use to develop a character results in convincing and well-portrayed characters, then it's working.
I have a friend that works at an acting school. I'm convinced some people have confused "Liking being the center of attention" with "Wanting to be an actor"
Being an actor requires a lot of work.
baccus83 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:35:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's very hard to do at a high level. You have to be completely in control of your body and voice, and completely rid yourself of your own ticks and idiosyncrasies. There's a level of awareness that the best actors have that takes a long time to hone.
Sevsquad ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:20:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You don't always have to rid yourself of those ticks. Sometimes those little idiosyncrasies become the most realistic part of the character.
baccus83 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:28:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's a matter of choice. You can keep your ticks so long as you're conscious of and deliberate with them, knowing they're part of your character now and not you. Never should you let your own tendencies seep into your performance unconsciously.
Definitely this. I only truly began to realize how difficult it is, after attempting to get into the acting game. The best actors simultaneously juggle posture, accents, lines, emotional level and timing - without their own personality coming through. Holy SHIT is that hard to do.
This. There's a reason why many successful actors went to top schools to study the craft. It's really difficult to trick your brain into believing the scene is real while adhering to the script.
Know exactly what you mean. I used to think I was a good actor, but watching clips of myself, holy shit, no I wasn't. Definitely have that "tone".
Jarmatus ยท 106 points ยท Posted at 13:38:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ironically, my neurological disorder has slightly improved my acting - I'm always scripting and faking it to get through the day, so scripting and faking it on stage is easier and more natural.
For an internal video at work I had to act in a 5 minute scene by myself with a proper film crew. Just a cheesy internal video used for a directors review, maybe 100 VP types saw it. A long time ago I'd done drama class in school and all that so I thought it would be fine.
But when you have 20 people standing around staring at you, all pointing cameras and mics and adjusting your clothes and putting makeup on you, it is pretty high pressure. And then they need you to do the same little thing again and again and again and oh maybe we'll go back and redo that thing from two hours ago.
I got pretty frazzled. It's not easy and I did a lousy job.
JonDied ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:50:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is 100% true. For class we made a 2 min commmercial, about every commercial sounded fake and out of touch. I personally thought it would be piece of cake, but it was super hard. Kudos to those who are professionals.
I've done some amateur acting, mostly student films and whatnot. Nothing too serious. Still, I've always appreciated how much skill it takes to do it well.
But in college I had to do a documentary project with a group of stage actors during the early stages of a production. The time when the actors and the director and whomever else are making decision about these characters. Motivations, fears, etc. It was just me and my camera. Everyone else there was involved in the production.
It was incredible. It was honestly mind-blowing; being able to see these actors go in and out of character with no noticeable difference. Nothing. One minute they're one person, the next they're another. They weren't acting like someone else. They were someone else. At least from where I was sitting.
That gave me a whole new appreciation for what real acting looks like. Not through a screen where your senses are dulled. But up close. In person. What it looks like to see someone who can be anyone.
So true. I work as a voice director and most times when I tell someone that at a party, the response I get is, "Cool, you know I've always wanted to get into voice acting. What's the best way to go about it?" Well, first of all be one of the handful of people with the necessary talent, then work your ass off to hone that talent. Next, spend years getting rejected over and over before you land your first gig. "But I can do a British accent, listen!"
c130 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:20:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was curious about voice acting as a hobby so I signed up at Librivox.org and worked on a few projects (it's a site where anyone can volunteer to record public domain books as audiobooks).
It's fun, frustrating, interesting, and terrifying how much there is to learn.
In audiobooks and movies with great voice acting, the acting disappears beneath the characters. When you hear terrible voice acting though, it's easy to think "I could do better!" until you actually sit down in front of a mic, read your lines and come out sounding as emotional as a GPS.
There's just so many little gestures that go into it that really make it perfect, not just memorizing lines, but looking at yourself in the mirror for hours trying to make the simplest combination of movements and dialogue seem natural.
One of the causes of this is that most folks have only seen the top 1% of actors. The people in movies and TV shows are the creme-de-la-creme of actors. Performers at that level MAKE it look easy.
I'm always amazed when I find out an actors normal speech is not American. Hugh Laurie, Andrew Lincoln come to mind. I loved the Mentalist and saw an interview with Simon Baker and almost shit my pants.
bjsy92 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:10:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
All jobs celebrities do pretty much. Lady Gaga said she regularly goes 36 hours without sleep.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:41:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Furthermore the numerous takes that are done. They are pretty much acting the same section of the script repeatedly, and they have to make it look like that is the firs time they said it, or they have to portray it as being quick witted and so on. Acting looks like fun, but that has to be one of the most difficult parts imo
Also acting for TV and such is wildly different than reality. But we just don't realize how different it is. In reality people will stutter and eeeehh. In TV this barely happens. Rick and Morty actually has a 'realistic' speech pattern to some extent and when you see the show its the first odd thing you see.
Acting it's hard, it's acting different in such a way that it's somehow the same.
Most really good trained singers make it seem so effortless that people think they can do it too.
wsotw ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:13:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As someone who makes a decent income in front of a camera (mostly commercials and TV but some film) I can't tell you how many times someone has asked me something along the lines of "Hey, I would like to try that. How do I get an agent?" or "...how do I get a commercial?" or with absolutely zero acting experience "...I want to get on [insert name of popular tv show here]?" They have no understanding that I have twenty years into this and have spent a LOT of time working on the craft. The flip side of this is when I get into any sort of kerfuffle on facebook (something I am not a stranger to) it is also the first place a weak arguer tries to attack. It is as if they think I am vulnerable there. I can't tell you how many times someone has said something along the lines of "you are just a two bit commercial actor" or just recently "I am going to blast you on twitter and reddit. You are just a #washedupextra." ...from a guy who had on his facebook feed three or four posts about being an extra in a movie whilst I shot over a dozen commercials, five episodes of TV and a movie last year alone. His twitter attack went nowhere until I retweeted it for him. It was the least I could do. (hint: twitter - #washedupextra)
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:32:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
People think that looks easy? Looks hard as hell to me.
I'm studying acting as we speak and believe me when I say this is the one job you truly have to always give 100% of your best work. It's extremely difficult and there is a reason why it requires "talent".
I'm adding voice acting to this as well. I'm a voice actor and so many people say shit like, "oh I'd really like to try it out. It could be fun. It can't be that hard, it's just talking. It's not even real acting." It's like, bitch where's your voice reel? Oh you don't have one because you can't do any other voices? Yeah you'll do great.
When I was in my teens I did a scene with a professional (but not famous) actor and when we started the shot, he started his bit and when it came to my line I just couldn't speak. I was blown away by how convinced I was. I can't imagine a Tom Cruise-level actor/actress. I'll never forget that moment.
While on the subject of acting, I want to specifically bring up voice acting. It's one thing to be able to do an impression of Spongebob or Mr. Burns or Bugs Bunny, but it's another to actually be able to act as them. You should be able to talk as a sad Spongebob, an angry Mr. Burns, or Bugs Bunny pretending to be a woman. I think about this whenever I watch American Dad, they have this character, Roger, who makes up ridiculous personas and plays as them. It's gotta take some talent for MacFarlane to voice not just Roger, but Roger pretending to be other people.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:24:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hah, we did some filming to do a video for work and we took various people in the company and filmed scenarios with them, and did some VO work with them. The video came out awkward as fuuuuuck. Luckily my parts were cut out of it too.
I always felt that improv was so much easier than script reading. I always stunk at that.
helmutkr ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:52:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Middle School aged me thought for sure I would go into filmmaking. Made a few embarrassing attempts at making short films. It's amazingly hard just to appear natural in front of a camera, make things look even remotely cinematic, etc.
Bryaxis ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:55:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
An analogy I've heard: Imagine someone with no training getting up on stage and trying to play the violin. You'd expect them to be terrible. Acting is similar, but some people don't realize it because you can't see the instrument.
I just watched The Shining and Jack Nicholson's acting is so spot on in that movie.
bkrassn ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:10:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I worked with an actor. Guy could change his entire persona at the drop of a hat. He personally was a bit uneasy and stressed out all the time but he could play any type of person. It was quite amazing. Near as I could tell all the body language lined up. Voice inflections were appropriate per the role he was doing. Not something I can do, that is for sure.
This can be mitigated if you have a good director. A good director can spot the rawness in your performance and then polish it off.
Anyone can be a good actor with time and opportunity. But since those two things are hard to come by you need to go to acting school or debut with a good director.
In my limited experience if someone tells you they are an actor they are an egomaniac who at most have done some college plays or public access skits. On the other hand the two people I know who are actual actors, one was the lead in a series on CBC and the other had been on Trailer Park Boys and The Lizzy Borden chronicles, never bring up their acting unless they are asked about it.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:18:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I like to think that I can do vocal acting ok but visual acting is fucking impossible. I have a hard enough time showing my emotions day to day. Never mined if I am not actually feeling them and I am surrounded by a crew.
jcb6939 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:47:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be a great actor is hard, but to be an average one can't be that hard if all of these singers and models just pick it up instantly and star in movies
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:32:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Those people usually A) have the roles written for them, and B) are terrible.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:45:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:32:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Unfortunately a lot of people actually believe this.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:45:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:49:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Actually when i was younger I did some acting, and for me...it was amazingly easy. I placed well in state competitions, and the people I was with really struggled to do it.
It was simply putting myself into being the person i was acting. It was not even remotely that difficult....for me. Everyone around me? Not so much. Acting was not what I wanted to do in life though. It was more that so any of my friends were doing it that I got pulled into it.
Perfect actors are con artists. Why? Because they don't over emphatise simple emotions so some stupid brain dead idiot would understand what is happening.
If you have ever seen a real con artists at its best, then you have seen one hell of a work of art. If you have seen a movie then congrats you have seen garbage.
Was referring to actor's skill being garbage compared to a con artist. One is fiction and basically make belief and other is reality. Who do you think is better? The one that lies and over emphasises things they have learned and seen before or someone that lies and makes reality become even more real while their very own livelihood depends on being believable.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:08:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:36:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Being a musician (or comedian, I'm sure, though I'm not one), is another form of performance, and requires similar skills to acting: situational awareness, a feel and personal investment in the material, timing/pacing, etc.
wjbc ยท 2718 points ยท Posted at 12:41:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write and sell books. Most people seem to think that if they just sat down and typed, they could be a successful author. They should try it sometime. I have tremendous respect for successful professional authors, it's hard work and it takes talent very few people have. It also takes a big leap of faith to even try.
fx32 ยท 925 points ยท Posted at 13:42:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It annoys me quite a bit how difficult it is to write compelling stories. I have plenty of vague ideas, and I often write them down, wishing I could do more with it.
But then you have to find a way to remove all the plot holes, make it believable, yet keep it interesting by introducing a certain amount of intrigue and twists. And that's still the relatively easy part... the most difficult part in my opinion is fleshing out interesting characters, making them interact in a way which continuously adds depth yet also makes them fit into the main plot line.
I feel like writing would be 90% thinking and taking notes, plotting causality and relationship diagrams and timelines containing events, somehow making it all fit into your own brain, not confusing yourself too much with all the possible options; and only 10% typing.
[deleted] ยท 1291 points ยท Posted at 14:32:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Daughter of a professional author here. I've seen my mother go through the writing-->publishing-->editing-->marketing process dozens of times, and here's my take to it.
Any idiot can come up with a story idea and write it out. First drafts always, ALWAYS look like shit. They read like shit. They're always pure garbage. My mother has to rewrite her stories several times before her editor is even willing to hear about it.
The real job of an author really is not to only come up with an interesting, compelling story but to flesh it out and watch as you are forced to completely rip it to shreds and then build it back up, change things, and redo everything several times over.
This is why authors have editors. It's naive to think everything you see in a book is the author's original work- that poor person had to rewrite that several times over. They were made to change tons of stuff over and over. I know this because it's literally all I hear about at the dinner table.
So yeah. Anyone can write, but it takes drive to become a published author.
Edit: because everyone in my inbox keeps asking, my mother writes gay erotica novels.
She's still in Azkaban as of right now, 17 years after the end of the story. She's been in there longer than Bellatrix Lestrange was. I think a life sentence was better than killing her off.
Though I agree that the killing was so bad, it was "off-camera" in the books and was so half-assed, yeah Lupin and Tonks died, tragic, oh oh oh and Fred, seriously that shit killed me I have a twin brother and I dont think Rowling actually knows how deep that bond go. I wouldn't know what to do if it happened to me
Rowling has also said it was to show the child victims in war. Also to contrast how Teddy grew up, surrounded by love, and Harry, who grew up with the Dursleys.
I'm a professional author going through my first rounds of publishing and my editors were really clear up front that they loved my idea, but wanted me to rewrite the entire thing. I was upset at first but as I worked on the second draft I realized they were right. Writing a book is easy, revision is hard. Revision/editing is the worst. I can pop out a first draft in less than 2 months, but I have to force myself to edit. I'm personally too close to the action, I need that extra pair of eyes to point out when things don't work. Personally, I know X's motivation for things, but if my editor can't figure it out then I didn't do a good job explaining it.
I'm still in college right now, so I have scholarship money. I have no idea how I'm going to survive when I graduate.
Funkays ยท 130 points ยท Posted at 16:41:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Have a friend who decided to start writing a story when she was like 17. Recently finished it and going through the editor interaction phase. They've made her write several endings to the story and she is unaware which one they will end up using.
[deleted] ยท 58 points ยท Posted at 19:23:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They've made her write several endings to the story and she is unaware which one they will end up using.
Ah. I've been writing for fun since I was 16, and although I don't have any realistic goals of publishing, this would make me sooooo mad. It's my story, the execution and some points may be shit, but it's still mine... Although I guess she still made all the endings, it still irks me.
kholto ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 02:22:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You don't have to have an editor, you can publish yourself, but getting attention and sales willbe a problem unless you already have an audience. Also most people tend to get caught up in their own little loop of logic, understanding or opinion in some way, many of your favorite authors would not be the same at all without their editor.
Or you can have beta readers then get published normally.
Beta readers are better because they ARE your audience and they know what works better than some forty year old white guy who thinks every single part of a story has to be exciting as fuck.
Literally the hardest part about writing right there. I've read so many good books and short stories that fell flat on their face in the conclusion. I'm not saying I could do any better, I can't even write the last paragraph of a college essay. But, I can definitely tell when someone is doing it right, and I can probably count the examples on one hand for every hundred or so books I read.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:10:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I began writing when I was 10. (It was terrible writing, but yes I did start writing back then...on my own, outside of school.) I'm in my early 30s, and only now do I feel confident I can actually put into a story what I want to put into it.
It's not at all uncommon for "new" writers to actually publish their first book in their 30s, at least in the science fiction and fantasy genre. And all of them had been practicing the craft with original works that didn't get published, or lots and lots of fanfiction, or writing professionally in another context, or all of the above, for many years before that.
I began to be paid for my writing ~5 years ago--but for my technical writing, not fiction. I expect it'll be a few more years before I am able to publish original fiction successfully.
I've always harbored the theory that the first 3 Harry Potter books are so much tighter-written than the bloated messes that followed because the editors got scared of pissing off this suddenly super-valuable author.
SG_Dave ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 20:19:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Very likely. The more star power a writer has, the less the editor interferes, especially if they haven't been editing that specific writer for very long.
GRRM is a great example of this. The first few ASOIAF books were relatively succint, and didn't drop pace much. Then somewhere between A Storm of Swords, and A Feast for Crows GRRM started getting away with too much since the publishers didn't want to "stifle" him. The books started bloating, and thus the timeline for writing expanded.
totomaya ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 03:02:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This definitely happened with GRRM.
baslisks ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:08:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
ridley scott is a great director to look at for an example of this...
I always wondered why Riordan and many other authors' quality gradually goes down during a series. This makes perfect sense now. (I'm talking about heroes of Olympus, not the first pj series)
(Percy Jackson is so much better than Harry Potter, but only because PJ is everthing I want in a book series)
I always wondered why Riordan and many other authors seem to go off on the deep end gradually during a series. This makes perfect sense now. (I'm talking about heroes of Olympus, not the first pj series)
Working on my first book; not even close to finished.
I spend way, WAY more time reading it than I do writing. With every read-through, there's a "that doesn't read quite right" moment or ten. I ask other people for feedback all the time because I know that there are things that make perfect sense to me, but absolutely none to people who don't have the entire universe of the book's setting in their head.
Read. Change something. Read again. Change again. Read more. Scrap that entire chapter. Rewrite it. Rewrite it again. Reorganize something in the next chapter. Change the dialogue because "would he really say it that way?". Read it again. Scrap the new dialogue, anyway.
...and on that note, gonna get off Reddit and go back to editing.
Did you complete your first draft, or are you constantly revising without reaching the end of the narrative? Different writers have different methods, but I find it is best to :
Complete the story without looking back.
Let it rest, read the whole thing a few weeks later (abstain from editing while you go through it).
Re-write it.
Polish it.
If you're satisfied (re-do step 3 and 4 if need be), then show it to your reading circle. Not before.
And you can't polish a first draft, since you can't polish a mess.
But if that's what you're already doing, or if you're satisfied with your method, disregard this. Nevertheless, I recommend The Modern Library Writer's Workshop by Stephen Koch. :)
I think that, generally, the point of writing the whole thing down once, first, is to give you an idea of what you want it to be. All the ideas you have while writing that you couldn't implement without scrapping a lot of existing content, that's what drives the need for large-scale rewrites, I think.
I used to make indie games for funsies; I've learned (the hard way) the importance of figuring all that out before you even get close to starting. Without that foresight, some (read: so, so many) things are so much harder to write in after you've started that they end up in the "welp, it'll be nice to see that in the sequel" pile, so I tried to avoid that pitfall in my writing.
That being said, I'm not perfect by any means and I still think of things I want to do while I'm in the middle of a chapter. On the bright side, though, I've found it substantially easier to clean up writing than games because the "well the bedrock of the medium just doesn't accomodate that" wall is much softer when the bedrock is "a previous chapter" rather than "the engine on which everything else is built".
So I suppose my method ends up being somewhat similar: the story was complete long before I started writing it, so my first writing is a "re-writing" in that sense. The issue has been putting it on paper in a clear, interesting, and compelling way; shit's hard.
Apparently Kipling's Kim, one of the gems of the literary world (there can be few greater wordsmiths than Rudyard Kipling) went without the services of an editor. There are many emendations, but all in Kipling's own hand. But then, some people are geniuses.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:32:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I wrote a book two years ago and the editing and revising were torturous.
This is what makes me a bit hesitant to try getting published in the traditional way. I feel like my story would get changed up to the point my characters would be far from how I imagined them. At that point it wouldn't even be my story anymore, just something doctored to be pleasing to the masses.
Edit: The hell am I being downvoted for? If I'm misunderstanding how the editing process works, throw me a bone and explain it to me.
[deleted] ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 15:20:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted] ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 19:21:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
It's just not like that Family Guy episode where Hollywood completely changes Brian's TV show.
An editor doesn't tell you to change your female 16 year old protagonist from New York into a 45 year old man from Delaware. That's not what they do.
Editing is about things like ensuring the narrative is consistent, the characters aren't two-dimensional and perhaps most importantly: there isn't any pointless dreck. It's not uncommon for them to suggest you completely get rid of chapter 3 and 12, and that chapter one should be cut entirely because it'd be better starting at 2.
Editing like this is also the job of the author. You are supposed to do all this as best you can before even sending the manuscript off. An editor is a trained professional who suggests and encourages all the above but they're just better at it than you are.
They wouldn't suggest completely changing everything to appeal to the masses. It's also important to research your publishing house and send it to the right one. You don't just randomly fire them off and hope for the best. You wouldn't send a scifi novel to a publishing house like Mills and Boon for example.
If your novel is set in India they won't tell you to change it to Chile. They'll ask why it is in India and you should be able to answer it.
opolaski ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 04:46:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Let's be clear: You will have to murder parts of your story.
Much of it will be boring, pointless, or awful.
Your book will start off like a 1 year old - messy, disgusting, and incomprehensible. It's yours and your editors' job to nourish that book until it's old enough to survive on its own. But it will be nothing like your original book.
Heimdyll ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:36:05 on January 29, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That being said, if its your first book, you'll either agree or feel that it's the best thing ever.
Source: NaNoWriMo
vicrally ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 15:09:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Except you'll be doing all the changing yourself. 4 drafts is about the minimum you're gonna have to do before sending out query letters.
It doesn't have to be by yourself (at least, the final draft). You can pay professional freelance editors like me to work with you on your manuscript before sending out queries. I've helped several authors to secure publishing deals this way.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 20:02:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
This is true but I do urge writers to at least try and edit on their own as well. It's a huge learning curve and it makes you learn a lot about craft. A writer who never edits outside of spell checking isn't a proper writer in my opinion. I can't stress enough how important self-editing is and what it teaches you about writing.
Absolutely! I always encourage writers to go through the process themselves, and when their draft is ready for editing, rather than just correcting it without explanation, I 'coach' them through it, so they're learning the main tenets of structural editing as we work together. It's usually a very fruitful and rewarding process.
ericpaz ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:48:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A good editor's job is to help bridge the gap between what you imagined and the words you put on the page to describe what you imagined. Without a second pair of eyes it's easy to mistake what you imagined for what you wrote. It will still be your story, but it will be much more like the story you wanted to write in the first place.
This is great news to me. I am on my third rewrite of a story that I feel is really interesting, and it's confidence inspiring to know that I'm not the only one who has had to gut a story a couple times because it just wasn't right.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:12:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The real job of an author really is not to only come up with an interesting, compelling story but to flesh it out and watch as you are forced to completely rip it to shreds and then build it back up, change things, and redo everything several times over.
I think this is something that is true of nearly every profession. In fact, I think it's what seperates an amatuer from a professional. Most people can get the initial parts of just about anything, getting into the details is where it gets hard.
Hi, thank you for typing this out. I try to convey this message to people so often, and it's like nobody understands how many hands go into a finished bestseller. I'm so excited for the day people tell me which parts of my books are shit and then when I change them, they change them a little and then we see how they do.
First conference is in April after a little over 2 years of steady releases. Just ordered new business cards. I'm comin for some of that pie your mom's got.
I think this is the case with any art form, really. As a painter and graphic artist, I can force myself to go through artists' block by sitting down for maybe 60 seconds and come up with an idea. I can put that idea on paper in maybe an hour or two. From there I can spend tens of hours fixing the most minute details that most people don't even notice, but the collection of all of the details is the difference between something that works and something that is total garbage. Then of course I'm never really satisfied with anything I make, and everything feels like a work in progress, no matter how many hours are put into it.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:21:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, yeah, publishing can be a real bitch. Even the best and most popular authors often got rejected multiple times before getting published. A lot of people want to be professional writers, there's a lot of competition. And a lot of published books end up losing money.
A lot of people want to be professional writers, there's a lot of competition.
I don't think people realize just how much competition there is. I used to work for a literary agent. Hundreds of query letters a week, 99.9% went straight to the recycling bin without the agent ever seeing them. If I liked a manuscript enough to refer it to the agent, she had to like it enough to agree to take it on. Then it had to be rewritten several times before she would even consider shopping it to an editor.
Yeah, it's a pretty intense business. Even the most acclaimed and successful authors will tell you they've been rejected a lot. I think sometimes people will read a shitty but successful book and think that it must be easy to get published. And, yeah, shitty books do get published sometimes... But quality isn't the only factor. With so many people trying to get published, not all of the rejected books are bad. A big part of it is publishing at the right time, and it certainly doesn't hurt to have connections.
And even if you don't go through a publishing company, like deciding to self-publish on Kindle, that still takes a lot of work too. Everyone thinks that self-publishing is even easier, but it can be just as hard. Like, it's a lot harder to advertise. Even traditionally published authors often have to do their own advertising, but it's a bit easier for them. Most review shows and websites won't look at self-published works. If you try to sell physical copies, most bookstores won't stock them. (hell, it's hard enough for traditionally published authors to get space) Going off of that, most bookstores won't let self-published authors do signings or events at their stores.
apm588 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:33:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I worked on 5 feature films, and was a script assistant on 3 of them. We spent hours at a time in a room just talking about why the pages of the script didn't work. We would constantly come up with ideas on what to do, and then have to sift through all of that to see if anything would stick.
Our writers were all Hollywood vets. It's a great lesson in humility and craft when you are seeing talented, working Hollywood writers constantly have to resubmit because their current draft just doesn't cut it.
As someone who loves storytelling and writing, it teaches you that you have to put in the work. You're not gonna strike gold on your first shot. And not everyone can do this work
And let's not forget the hurdle of actually starting, either. I've got about a zillion notes on a bunch of different stories, none of which are finished because every time I try to start I write something down and erase it ten minutes later because it sounds horrible and I can't continue from there. Chapters from the middle of the story, sure, but chapter one? Not working. Ever.
jmwbb ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:13:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
remove the plot holes
I resent you, every once in a while I run into an idea for a few paragraphs of kick ass writing. I could never develop enough of a plot for there to actually be holes in it.
You missed the difficultly of actually writing well enough to a professional standard. So much harder then people realise. It's not just writing with a flowery prose.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:03:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well in contemporary writing most people would tell you to cut the flowery crap anyway.
Boukish ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:23:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah the Hemingway school of thought is pretty predominant nowadays.
I feel like writing would be 90% thinking and taking notes, plotting causality and relationship diagrams and timelines containing events, somehow making it all fit into your own brain, not confusing yourself too much with all the possible options; and only 10% typing.
Conversely, the opposite trap is to sink thousands of hours into "world-building"; figuring out all the details of your fictional geography, history, economy, social hierarchy, and so on down to local customs and idioms... all without actually writing a single chapter of a story set in that world.
Which often seems to end up laden down with unnecessary details that the author expects you to learn/remember, but it's been taking up so much of their head for so long that they don't see how ridiculously overcomplicated it's gotten, or how the dozens of nouns they've invented sound silly.
So there's something to be said for the opposite approach, where you just start writing words, accept that most of them will eventually be thrown away, and leave figuring out the details until the direction of your writing takes you to a point where the details are actually important.
I only write as a hobby, but still, there's a TON of planning that goes into a story. And plenty of research. Even if you're writing a hardcore fantasy novel, you'll still find yourself doing research on all kinds of topics. I Google so many weird questions, ha ha.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:56:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a teenager hoping to be a professional author. I've been working on the same story since sixth grade (junior in high school now) and let me tell you, it's exhausting. Having to work out things I put no thought into when I first started writing it as a tween and coming up with new intrigues, trying to tie things together to stay consistent between books in the series, coming up with new characters, refining relationships, minor, recurring characters, timelines, etc. it's so hard and stressful and hard to keep track of. I forget ideas too often and I have so many tiny papers floating around with tidbits of information.
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love writing. Creating an entire universe with a story is amazing, but also immense amounts of work and thinking. Still wouldn't trade it for anything.
tweeex ยท 215 points ยท Posted at 15:14:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've never really understood this. Writing seems to be the one creative art where a lot of people go "Hey, I could do that" and try to sit down and bang out a story and don't understand why it doesn't work. I guess this happens because a lot of people can "write" (in the sense of putting words together to form a coherent thoughts), but confuse that ability with actual narrative prowess.
It's like running. Most anyone can run, but if you'd never trained for running a day in your life, you wouldn't think you could go out and run a half marathon, would you? Writing's just the same. It takes talent, yes, but it also takes practice.
casualguy ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 19:51:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
It's very true. I'm a journalist, but I also do quite a bit of copywriting. Often copywriting clients say, "Why are you charging me ยฃยฃยฃ a day for something I could myself?"
My stock response is this:
Go ahead and write your copy. But...
Based on your salary, your time is worth ยฃยฃยฃยฃ a day (whereas I only cost ยฃยฃยฃ) so it makes sense for you to use me.
Also, it will take you three days, whereas it would take me one. So you will have "spent" ยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃ not, ยฃยฃยฃ.
And it won't be very good, because you don't write all day, every day. So having wasted three of your days, you may still need one of mine. Which is ยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃ+ยฃยฃยฃ.
If you want to find someone who only charges you ยฃ, that's cool too. But I'm quick and maybe they'll take two days (ยฃยฃ), I have a strong track record and you will not have to spend a day of your time going through it (ยฃยฃยฃยฃ), figuring out what is wrong and going back to Mr ยฃ (bringing your cost up to ยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃ). If they really suck, you may still come to me, in which case, your cost will be ยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃ.
I am confident enough that you will like what I do, so I always include one set of reasonable changes in my quote of ยฃยฃยฃ.
Quite a lot of them still spend ages days doing it themselves. I once rewrote a document that someone had wasted at least ยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃ on. I charged the ยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃ. Had they come to me in the beginning, this is all it would have cost them.
And like you mentioned, it's one of the few creative arts where people get the impression that "I can do that!" Because it's so similar (in theory) to what they do every day. Not everybody thinks they can paint or sculpt or play an instrument, because they recognize that it takes interest and skill to learn. But writing words? "Everybody who knows how to read can do that. I've been doing that for years!" Not realizing that story structure and command of language require skill to paint a visual or evoke/convey an emotion using only words.
Oaden ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:05:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Its not just that anyone can write, but most people come up with ideas for stories from time to time. That makes it seem like you're almost there. Writing + Great idea = Great Novel
Of course the actual tricky part is converting thoughts into compelling narrative.
Its a bit like game design, most people have a "Great idea" for a game, what stops people from thinking they can make great games is that far less people can program
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:23:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep. On a bet, Jim Butcher wrote a great series out of two terrible ideas.
mediaboy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:49:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
On a bet iirc?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:56:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:15:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ideas are actually super-cheap to come by. It's easy to come up wtih an idea. That's why those Craigslist ads where someone wants to hire a ghostwriter to develop their idea is laughable--it's not the idea that's the hard part! It's the hours and hours of mulling over execution, and the additional hours upon hours of actually doing to work to type something with a beginning, middle, and end!
So yeah...those people who expect a ghost writer will take their Wonderful! Idea! and make it into a full-fledged product for 1% of potential profit are complete idiots and should be ashamed of themselves for taking advantage of really young would-be writers who make the mistake of thinking that's anywhere remotely close to fair.
Psudopod ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:42:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My dad tried to write a guide on a new, niche programming language for which there has yet to be an approachable guide published. He is the local expert, uses it every day, and could have honestly made a few bucks selling "The Only Guide You'll Get!" for this language.
He has never touched a creative venture, even something as creative as a 50 page epub on something he is an expert at. He got as far as a few of the bullet points for what would be included before he burned out on the rush of thinking of it, thinking of names for it, thinking of getting a little notoriety in his circles for having published it. That was, like, years ago. Making things does not run on motivation, but discipline.
As someone who has been in the writing business for about two years now, can confirm, its pretty difficult to do. Especially marketing anything you can think of on your own.
I think it's also harder with writing for the writer to separate themselves enough to give a really objective look at what they wrote. John Cleese said something along the lines of "The skills you need to determine if it's good and bad are precisely the same skills you need to be good at actually doing it." I think that rings reasonably true with a lot of writing for people making their first attempts at it. I have the utmost respect for people who are able to offer helpful critiques to aspiring authors.
Writing is difficult because the act of reading words takes up time. So if you're trying to summon a particular image or event, you have to use the language in tandem with the effect you're trying to achieve. Writing isn't about telling a story. The act of writing is to create a brilliant illusion and maintain a fantasy that doesn't get in the way of itself. Words are complicated. If one of them is wrong, the whole paragraph can crumble. Of more than one is wrong, the story will suffer for it.
Ha ha, well-said. I guess it's because people don't realize how much work and planning goes into writing a good story. They think that you just sit down and write. But, writers plan their stories out beforehand. If you try to make it up as you go along, it probably won't be very good. (at least for me, ha ha) There are multiple drafts involved. You have to make sure that there are no plot holes or redundancies. Even if you're writing like, a hardcore fantasy novel, you're going to find yourself doing some kind of research.
FourO40 ยท 154 points ยท Posted at 15:47:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone who's written several essays in high school and college should know how fucking hard it is to write even a few pages
wjbc ยท 75 points ยท Posted at 15:50:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I disagree. High school basically gives you a formula for how to write an essay. I wouldn't say it's like filling in the blanks, but it's not difficult to write for that setting. At some point it's harder to keep your writing under 20 pages.
Writing a book is entirely different. You haven't been given a structure to follow and you haven't been trained to write books for 8+ years. Also, stories are written in almost an entirely different dialect from what you'd use in an essay. High school and college condition you to use simple English for the sake of communication, stories aren't about communicating the themes found in Of Mice and Men or about restrictions and guidelines in a project. Essays and books are entirely different.
Too many people think that creative fields take little to no effort. Especially writing. I mean, it's just thinking about stuff and typing, so how hard can it be, ha ha? Anyone can do it. Authors, man, they have all the luck. They get to have fun all day just making up things.
Then the budding Faulkners, Prousts, and Woolfs actually try it.
Or about how they're the only one who sees things the way they REALLY are.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:55:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"And then it was dark and it seemed really scary outside." Perfect.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:48:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not even a professional, and I still get annoyed at people coming up to me and saying "Hey, I have this killer idea! I'll tell you about it, you write it out, and we'll split the profits."
For me, the hardest thing about writing is getting the book to have substance and not be some shitty plot with no detail.
vicrally ยท 128 points ยท Posted at 15:06:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fuck yeah it is especially the selling part. Just finished my first book and I'm pretty reassured its not gonna get published. But 40 rejections reassured me. Working on two more books right now . I'm not gonna let one failure stop me.
I remember watching a video a while back of an agent who worked at a publishing house. Since he received so many manuscripts and books, he would usually not even read the book itself. He would just skim the letter the author attached talking about the book and generally veto the entire submission based on word choice, sentence structure, and misspelled words. If it passed all of those and sounded interesting, he might skim the first chapter.
It's funny, I believe even the first harry potter book was rejected 12 times.
[deleted] ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 15:36:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm glad it hasn't stopped you because what happened to you is pretty normal.
A good thing to do is to keep one big binder for your rejections, and a smaller one for your acceptances. I've seen my old professors (artists) show their rejection binders and it's fucking filled.
If you really do think that your book won't be published, publish it yourself as an ebook. There's a lot of ways to sell it and publishing this way is very easy. Going digital with it might seem like it's not a "real book", but it is. It also might seem like you won't earn as much, but let me assure you - you can earn more. Ebooks might have a lower price tag than hardcovers, but you also get a much bigger share of the royalties.
Source: I have more than a hundred published books of varying lengths and do this for a living.
magnora7 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:43:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hypothetically if I have a good idea for 2 really solid non-fiction 150 page books, how much money do you think I could make from them as ebooks if they sold decently? Can you publish it as an ebook and then later publish with a physical publisher?
The money is totally unpredictable, and has a lot to do with how much effort you put into marketing it (and its quality of course). You can absolutely switch from ebook to paper. If you use an exclusive publishing option like Kindle Unlimited there can be some constraints on that, but you can always pull your title from Amazon.
If you've got a book, publish it. It is easy and gets you out there.
magnora7 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:56:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks for the response. Is the ebook market small compared to the printed book market?
No, its huge. It makes up something like 20-30% of the book selling market i think. It was growing pretty rapidly as well over the last few years, but i think that growth rate has tailed off somewhat and now it appears that paperback/hardcover book and Ebook sales have begun to level off against each other.
If you are to sell an Ebook, do it on Amazon, they are easily the single largest Ebook distributor by a long long way
magnora7 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:27:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you very much for the advice and info, I think I may try this.
Kyddeath ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:28:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was talking to a self published author and she makes over2thousand a month. Best month was 12k
I'm not an author, but I am well versed in failing my fucking ass off... with that said props for continuing on! I'm finally getting a small taste of success in my own field because i took the hits and kept going. You'll get there eventually
Keep working at it man. I'm pulling for you. Working on a book of my own. I'm hoping to turn it into a series. Nothing's finished yet but I'm still chipping away.
Eff it, at least I still have a hot body. Decided to train to run a 5K instead.
Kyddeath ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:26:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Amazon self publish
Shnooky6 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:16:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Good to know! I'm a 15 year old writing a graphic novel (more on the manga side) about Alexander Hamilton, and im planning on using the broadway musical "Hamilton" fanbase. My mom's friend works for simon and schuster so its guaranteed they'll take a look at what i submit. So i've got an audience and i guess a better chance than most have. How many rejects should I expect?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:17:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Margaret Atwood once made a joke about a discussion with a brain surgeon. Atwood said she was an author, and the surgeon said "Oh that's great! I want to write once I retire." And she said "That's funny! I was going to become a brain surgeon after I retire!" In other words, anybody can write. Not everybody should, and it takes a tremendous amount of talent to write well.
[deleted] ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 23:43:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I get her point and the overall sentiment that the arts are often not respected, but it's really not the same. Writing as a hobby in your retirement is something enjoyable many people can do. It doesn't have to amount to anything, but a good time. On the other hand, you can't casually dabble in brain surgery.
I've just started this, and you're right. In some senses I'm happy with my writing, and in most senses I am not. Like after years of criticizing flat characters in books and on screen, now I'm like, "fuck, how do I make characters interesting? Uh, Sarah was so deep because she was both smart and a badass. Great stuff, I want to shoot myself."
sjhock ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:52:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Aspiring author here. Can confirm. Life is pain.
sonalogy ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 20:10:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Professional writer here--short fiction, essays and plays.
Self-publishing has really distorted what it means to be a writer. I'm not anti-indie publishing; there a definitely some books that are better suited to being distributed and sold that way. (Heck, poetry has a long tradition of that in the self-published chapbook.) But when everyone can write and sell a book.... well, most of them aren't done well.
Writing well and being published (and also being conventionally successful) are all separate things. And very few self-published books, particularly fiction, are well-crafted.
I was talking about writing on Facebook the other day, and an old friend pops up to say she's a writer too--she's writing a series of self-published fantasy novels. Hey, good for her for writing them, that takes a huge amount of effort. But a quick glance at the first chapter of her first book, and it's badly crafted. Cliches, front-loading information, over-using exposition, passive narrator.... this is all basic craft stuff. A few good writing classes, or some manuscript evaluations from someone who mentors other writers (lots of people do that) and she'd at least know that much, but getting the book published apparently outweighed learning her craft. (I give her credit for at least getting the thing properly proof-read.)
Likewise, another friend self-published a cookbook. She's a good cook, but the cookbook itself was poorly organized, the recipes were not always very clear or consistent in how they were written, and the introduction rambled. Even a small step like hiring an editor would have helped that.
That isn't to say every published book is well-written--there are definitely badly written books that sell, often 'written' by celebrities--but if you are an ordinary person, chances are you aren't going to be one of those.
I'm on the other side of things too, in that I read for a literary magazine. (One that pays authors money.) I know a lot of people who claim the industry is controlled by gatekeepers and it's all about who you know... that may help, but truthfully, most of the stuff in the slush-pile is poorly crafted. That's largely an objective measure, in that our comments at that stage are not about what we like, but clear and significant problems with craft. Perhaps a generous 10% is crafted well enough to be published, at which point it becomes a matter of editorial taste, and taste is very subjective. If you write well enough to make it into that 10%, sure, maybe knowing someone might help you.... maybe 1%-2% actually gets accepted. It's true that good work gets rejected all the time.... but most of the stuff that is rejected is not good.
Nattiejo ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:02:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I would argue it's not even necessarily talent that people lack. Obviously you do have to have a certain way with words but the main thing with professional writing is the sheer dedication. It is SO time consuming and sometimes your motivation is none existent. When you're feel unmotivated and uninspired in, say, retail (which I feel most people are) there are certain things that you can just do to pass the time, you know. But when you want to write and just can't get past that mental block you literally can't do anything. So much time and research goes into writing that blows my mind. I sometimes think I have a great idea, write a great abstract, and then read it again and think it's the dumbest thing ever. The ability to read your own stuff over and over again and not immediately cry and start again is so impressive to me.
I think that this issue can be attributed to confidence. The phrase "you are your own worst critic" is absolutely true in writing. Bear in mind that your reader is relatively forgiving, and unless it is a glaring plothole when you are reading through on a second glance, your reader will likely not be too concerned with it.
wjbc ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:05:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Many authors turn to it in desperation or write because they have always written and couldn't stop if they tried. For the rest of us, yes, motivation is a huge obstacle. But it's also easy to discount the importance of practice in writing, as in any other field.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:43:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Father currently writing a book as a thing to do when not working. He started originally in 2001. He's on his 5th total rewrite which is a completely different story and cast. Its been awesome watching him do it. I'm reading his 1st draft of the full thing and we have been talking back in forth about things that need to be changed, like the main characters whole backstory. Good friend of ours is an accomplished writer of thrillers and says this happens all the time.
I just got into writing screenplays because I have always wanted to make films and writing a screenplay is kind of creating a movie on paper but holy fuck I had no idea how hard it is. Coming up with an idea for a movie is really fun and easy but coming up with an outline for the story is a whole different level of difficulty. I respect anyone who has a completed feature length film script. It could be shit but it took a long time and a lot of work to get a piece of shit script written.
Agree. My book is being released March 8. It was a ton of work idea phase to finished product. Now, I have to work on a media campaign and sell it with all kinds of players involved.
wjbc ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:45:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
wee_bey ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:44:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That doesn't even account for the networking side of it. One of my best friends is a regional semi-prominent author and spends tons of time attending launches and readings just to keep her name current so she has a better chance at picking up publications. That's in addition to the hour she spends online helping other similar authors rework pieces so that they help market her future pubs/books. You really have to be connected into the scene to know journals/magazines/publishing houses before you even have a shot of having a manuscript read.
Knowing this makes me want to say "fuck it", self-publish, and put a PayPal tip jar at the bottom of the table of contents.
Publishing a book would be great and all, but I do not believe I have the cojones to leave the security of my day job to go have an improbably fleeting hope at getting something on paper, let alone get it sold well enough to break even.
I write for a living (copywriting, occasional journalism/blogging), and I can't write fiction for the life of me.
I remember writing a story in my creative writing class in college, and the professor spent half his critique telling me how well the story was written from a technical/grammatical standpoint, and the other half telling me how unoriginal, cliched, and uninteresting it was.
That's when I knew that I was best served editing or writing non-fiction.
I can do non-fiction. It's easy to tell a story when I can just recall a memory. Fiction has Aleta's been harder, but right now, it's a real challenge.
Id say the same of music and art. There's more to music than just singing on key. There's more to painting than just throwing around paint.
akopajud ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 13:42:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a professional writer. Although I write long form journalism/stuff for websites, not books. But nothing annoys me more than someone claiming to be a writer because they have a shitty blog.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:51:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a 17 year old dreamer. I've loved writing my whole life and I read constantly. It's not my dream to be a writer, it's my dream to write something I'm actually satisfied with, which hasn't happened yet. For anyone who has tried, just how unrealistic is my goal? I know I'll go into English in college. I know I'll earn a degree in something English based. I imagine I'll turn out poor and passionate like most every author out there. I was thinking about maybe getting a PHD in literature or poetry, so I could be a professor and write on the side. I apologize, as I'm only using this as a place to vent.
JeffBurk ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:27:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I'm a professional writer and editor - you will never be satisfied. I say that from my own experience and the experiences of every author I know. It's because while writing, you improve at your craft. By the time you get to the end of your work, you have become better than when you started. It's pretty much true for all artistic mediums.
I have met some people that love their own writing - they have all been terrible writers.
Note - there's a difference is being satisfied and taking pride in one's own work. It's good to take pride in your accomplishments but if you're approaching writing seriously, you'll most likely never feel satisfaction.
It's more like saying "anyone who plays the guitar is a guitarist". Old mate up top was making a play on words that if you engage in verb you can be classified as whichever noun form of that verb is -er or -ist in the case of using the guitar for its function of playing it as an instrument.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:20:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And his reason for doing so was to undermine the point the guy above him was making, even though the argument he was making was irrelevant to the guys point.
I write things in my spare time and I don't call myself a writer. It's not an issue of verbs and nouns, it was a wider social commentary based on the subject of the thread.
I love writing
But my longest 'novel' is like nine pages- I go that far before I go, "Damn. I'm 17. I need to learn about the world, get some dating and travel experience, before this book is worthwhile."
I do have a blog on woodworking and am worried that it's crap writing. It's hard to tell.
Maysock ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:47:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
POST IT :D
akopajud ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:06:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't mind people like you. This is how I think of it. I play the guitar. I've never played in front of a crowd. I don't write my own songs. I just like to mess around and play songs that I love. It's a fun hobby. But I wouldn't tell someone i'm a musician.
I'm not sure if that makes sense, but it is how I think of it. You can enjoy writing and write as a hobby and have a blog. But if you go around telling people that you're some great writer, because you have a blog, that annoys me.
I'd say also being generally paid to write. People tend to think they can easily be paid for writing articles and getting published. It's actually really hard to get paid to write anything. Many of the major online sites like Buzzfeed or HuffPost don't pay per article. Source: Professional writer, have had many unpaid articles before finally landing steady work.
I published my first nonfiction book with a small press in 2006. I just this past December managed to sign on with a professional agency. People really don't understand how much work it is beyond the initial draft. As others have mentioned there's the editing and re-editing and scrapping half the damned book, and plenty of research whether you're writing fic or nonfic. Then you have to figure out how you want it published (ideally, anyway). Even if you get picked up by a publisher, you still have a lot of work to do, both with managing the manuscript, and with TONS of promotion. You cannot be afraid to sell your work AND yourself.
wjbc ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:04:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I remember Isaac Asimov decided to write science fiction in the style of a history book because he could make it up instead of research it. But later he decided making it up was hard work as well, and wrote a number of history and science books.
I suck at fiction, but I know a lot of fiction writers. They put in at least as much work as I do, if not more, because I tend to write about things I already know a decent amount about. They're often delving into brand-new territory.
Ugh, except for the people who actually do just sit down one day and start pumping out amazingly successful novels with no background in writing. Like Terry Goodkind. Fuck that guy. And by "fuck that guy" I mean I absolutely love his books and own a few of them.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:59:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most people think that?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:08:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So much this. I come from a very literate family, consider myself well read and when I sat down to write my first novel, and I came up with a short story at around 30,000 words. How Stephen King does it, I have no fucking idea.
As I have heard from a couple of successful authors, writing is not a talent. It is a skill. It can be improved upon with time and dedication to the craft. A bunch of authors have written over a 100,000 words of sub par books before writing one that is marketable and emotive. People have no clue. They assume its as simple as putting their good idea on paper.
Source: I am a writer hoping to one day publish a novel.
miralea ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:57:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think this is part of why NaNoWriMo bothers the fuck out of me. Basically EVERYONE on my friend-list "participates" and talks about how they're "finally going to finish their novel".
Everyone I know who is published is self-published, and their writing has earned them maybe a total of $100 in the past three years. One friend made a comment about how, "I thought I'd be making more than this by now."
More power to people who use NaNoWriMo to really push their creative limits, but I swear that entire thing has turned into "how many people are going to try and be self-published authors with their first draft this year?!"
Jounas ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:58:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I could't finish a 100 word essay about my summer in school. I know i couldn't write freaking book, let alone make anyone buy it
RhynoD ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:10:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have this same feeling about poetry. Like, congratulations, you know how to rhyme and you have a vague understanding of what a metaphor is, that does not make you a poet.
Unpopular opinion, but slam poetry is the worst thing to happen to the art. People think they can just improv a word salad and it's good just because they have a sense of rhythm as they speak. Don't get me wrong, there are some great slam poets out there and great slam poetry, but as a genre...ugh.
Everyone who wants to write a novel should watch this.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:25:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Having read rather a lot of fanfiction, which obviously has virtually no minimum requirements to entry, I've discovered a fair amount of people people can write very well, as well as an average published author, but virtually no one can write as well as a good published author. Often it's a case of good plots, but poor dialogue and no sense of 'vividness' that you get from a bestselling author, but, like I said, many pretty good published authors have the same problem, I can't really expect every hobbyist to be J K Rowling
But what amazes me is how many people literally can't seem to write English, at all. I can understand some people aren't good at spelling, English spelling is ridiculous, but many people don't seem to be aware what a tense is! Just go on fanfiction.net for anything popular (well, probably something with a large 14 year old girl audience), sort by favourites and pick one of the stories on the last page
My mum is a published author. So many people say to her, I could write a book.
No you can't. Even if you could hammer out 70,000 words they would probably sick and you wouldn't be able to sit down and edit them and deal with the rewrites.
It does not take talent, it takes research and knowledge and maybe a bit of luck. And I say that as someone who isnt a particularly good writer but still had success in writing right off the bat.
So true. I can write an amazing page. I can create such an amazing idea. I have a few really long outlines (20+ pages). But I cannot finish a single work.
I don't consider myself a writer, but I've long been of the understanding that you're not a real writer unless writing is the hardest thing in the world for you to do.
I do a lot of online RP in AIM/Skype/Whatever and play DnD. There are times I come up with what sounds like a brilliant idea for a storyline, but when I start trying to put it into action it starts off strong, but ends up falling flat.
I couldn't imagine trying to write an entire story and it coming out as well as I originally hoped.
Imadoc91 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:06:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've been working on a graphic novel for the last 4 years off and on, and jesus fucking christ this. It definitely isn't oh just sit down and write and it'll happen. It's more like, okay it's been two months and I have an outline of an outline of an outline of an outline and a couple of snippets of random dialogue.
I've taken a try at this, and I've been staring at 30 pages of what I think is okay work, but I'm was too hesitant to take the story in any way for sure. I've started a second chapter and then I'm like 'wait if I change my mind I have to erase all these details and basically start from scratch'
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:39:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was once told by an author who has a new York times bestseller that authors with a published book aren't necessarily good writers. They are simply determined.
Most people have ideas. "Wouldn't it be great if there was a post-apocalyptic story about a zookeeper trying to take care of all the animals after civilization breaks down?" I mean, yeah -- sure, that's an interesting premise for a story.
Most people can write. I write emails and memos all day. I write posts and comments on reddit. It's not rocket science.
What most people don't realize is that turning an idea into a story by using writing is a lot of work. And the gap between idea and story is huge -- plot, characterization, dialogue; all of these things are tricky. It takes skill to make you care about Hank the zookeeper, to make you understand what he's going through, to present him with obstacles that make you want to keep reading to find out how he overcomes them. And not just skill. Hard work. Writers -- all but a handful of them -- bleed over their work. Every word that ends up in the final manuscript represents a battle.
There are some retarded successful books out there... The ones aimed at young kids (especially girls). Those authors piss me off because they exploit a reusable theme and story, but with different characters/using animals instead of people. Those authors disgust me.
Looking at hunger games and divergent series especially here.
wjbc ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:46:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I liked the Hunger Games series. Divergent wasn't as good. But again, good literature or bad, it's still work.
I love to fantasize about being a successful writer. But at some point many years ago I realized I wasn't inventing stories in my head and I sure as hell wasn't writing them down. I was outlining only the most basic aspects of what my story would be and then jumping ahead to interviews I would give where I would be praised for my innovative and amazing work. I didn't want to write, I wanted to be a famous writer.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:14:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And all the people who think they could write a book are the same ones who in school talk about how they bullshitted their papers.
I can't even imagine writing 100 pages let alone a novel or a nonfiction book
Oh, totally. Everyone thinks that since they have a good idea, they can write. But in writing, ideas are worthless. Being able to execute them properly is the real talent. You can give the same premise to 10 different authors and they'd come out with 10 different stories. And there's a bit more work than just "sit down and write". (though obviously that's a big part of it, ha ha) Quite a bit of planning and research (even if it's a fiction novel) goes into it. Not to mention that most writers, starting out, have bad habits that they gotta break.
I feel like books such as Fifty Shades of Grey only confirm and worsen this tenfold. I actually took the time one to seriously attempt reading it. I've read better fan fictions, involving Batman yaoi, than what this woman produced. She was trying so hard to capture that "magical, sexual essence" she ended up making it unbearably tacky. There are some really good romance novels (that most definitely include sex) that get not nearly as much credit as that piece of shit book.
nb00288 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:53:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know anyone who thinks writing a book is an easy project.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:54:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes! I've seen people think they are the next JK Rowlings, just because they spent a week on a novel. Bull shit! It took me a week just to write the main character's back story!
Dockirby ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:09:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone can simply write a book. Selling the book is the hard part.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:13:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like an amateur Geppetto whenever I write, the characters are wooden and won't come to life. They move around, but only when I pull on the strings.
Anyone can put words on paper, but writing books that sell....that takes skill, and hard work.
Psudopod ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:27:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Balancing everything that is going on in the plot, subplots, motivations, making it believable, interesting, dialogue?! Making characters speak in a way that is distinctive, true to their character, and also not just exposition after exposition. Jokes. Feelings. Writing sentences that make sense.
I can't do it, man!
I read a lot of shit fanfiction, it has to be said, you really take food writing for granted when you've only read classics and best sellers. You know what makes a good book, then you read bad fiction, then you realize what makes a bad book, then you see it, even in best sellers.
I'm always merciful when I review a fanfiction, if it is so unimaginably shit that they are notably bad amongst bad stories that I have to tell them how bad they are so I can explain it to myself how someone could make and publish such a complete mess. The shit in the rough, as it were. Even if they had no plot, bad dialogue, generic characters, no understanding of pacing, and worse grammar than me, I always tell them what they did right. There is always something. "I liked the mermaid hunters mentioned in chapter 4, I feel like you could get an interesting story out of it, and I laughed at the joke at the end of chapter 8! Keep writing, despite all the flaws I can tell you enjoyed making and sharing this, plus the end of the story read better than the beginning. You are improving with every word."
Anyways I rambled for a bit and lost the point, so I guess the point is that even writing comments on the internet is easy to do, and hard to do well.
I'll type out something for /r/writingpromts and then read it, realize it's dog shit, then delete it all the time. I've written responses for a bunch of those posts and only submitted two. Shits hard yo
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:47:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh god, people are always asking me why I don't "just write a novel". I am a writer/editor and I'm good at it BUT I do NOT do creative writing. A good technical writer is VERY different from a good creative writer. I could whip up an excellent user manual but I could never write a novel.
pan_glob ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:53:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think most people think this.
83923678 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:54:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
shouldve just said sell
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:29:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ugh. Yes. I've had two books published, both YA, and I can't tell you how often I hear from people "Oh all those books are such garbage, I could write something a hundred times better and make a billion dollars."
My response is always "Great! Go ahead! Write that bestseller. I'll wait."
stinkem ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:39:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Who the fuck thinks it's easy to write a book? Most people write terribly.
These are the same types that think George RR Martin should just get off his lazy ass and glue his fingers to the typewriter already. Little do they know, asking a writer like him to just sit down and write will most likely result in a mediocre piece of fiction, comparable to the star wards prequels.
I shy away from sitting down and typing precisely because I know it takes a bit more than that.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:05:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Unfortunately, I think a lot of popular books are written by people that think 'I can write a book!'
Subs like /r/fantasy just up vote utter pulp trash when it comes to the genre (given its a genre that involves a lot of pulp but still)
Even /r/books which you'd think might have an eye for literature does not, it just parrots back high school 'best books' lists and then a weird obsession with Lolita.
Few popular authors have both an eye for prose and good story telling ability.
But no, of course 'to kill a mockingbird' is the best piece of 20th century literature. Ugh. Fuck.
If you want to see an amazing author, I recommend Maya Angelou or Jamaica Kincaid.
Have you read lolita? It's pretty undeniably amazing writing. Yes, the plot is controversial, of course, and it is a bit of a circlejerk around it, but the language he employs is beautiful.
I do however agree that a lot of it is parroting back "best of" books that people think they should be enjoying.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:07:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh yes I have I think it's an incredible book. Undeniably amazing writing. But the fixation on it in certain circles raises some interesting questions. Lol.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:06:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No one is denying Lolita is good, I think OP's point is more along the lines of "Fucking hell this book again? Do you guys actually read anything outside of 'Top 100 Books' lists and high school reading?"
wjbc ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:07:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Even writing and selling popular books isn't easy.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:43:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No it's not easy at all, I'm just pointing out that a popular book != good literature.
oqfbfusq ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:38:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah but Sarah Palin just sat down and typed and the book sold thousands. How'd she do that?
wjbc ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:44:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm hoping you aren't that naive.
oqfbfusq ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:48:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You said someone can't just sit down and type and end up with a book that sells tens of thousands of copies, and they have to have genuine writing talent to do this. Well Sarah Palin isn't someone with genuine writing talent is she? And yet she just literally sat down and typed and ended up selling her book in tens of thousands. How did she do it? I thought you couldn't just do this but she did so explain.
wjbc ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:50:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's called ghost writers + celebrity author. Sarah Palin isn't "everyone" and chances are very good she didn't even write her book.
It's a goal of mine that I'll think of some awesome story, write it, and get it published. Either a novel or a comic (if I can snag an artist for "cheap"). Definitely a long shot dream. Doesn't matter if never sold worth a crap if I got published.
Never intend to even pretend to be a professional. Day job comes first, other shit after that, then maybe this.
Abstruse ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:35:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Even saying it's "talent" is wrong in my opinion. It devalues the incredible amount of work it takes to hone what raw talent there is. It really is a craft where training and education is just as important as raw talent. Ask any published author to tell you about their first novel. If they don't wince immediately, ask them again to talk about their first novel, not just the first one that was published.
Talent is important. But actually learning how to write is far, far more important.
Hyde: Just like that? You don't have to interview anyone else?
Leo: Nobody else showed up man.
Hyde: So what do I do here anyway?
Leo: Well I don't expect much man. Pretty much if the hut hasn't burned down its been a good day. And even if it did, it wouldn't matter because I have 3 or 4 more of these little huts somewhere... Hey if you see one of these huts will you give me a call man?
Hyde: Or better yet I could take a picture of it.
Leo: Woah! A picture of a photo hut! Hey that's like art or something huh?
Hyde: Yeah man I guess.
Leo: Hey, I hope you don't mind if I pay you in cash. Don't like big brother getting into my things, you dig?
Hyde: Keeping the government out of it. I'm so with you man.
Leo: No my big brother man. He's always hitting me up for money.
Hyde: Cause you're the responsible one?
Leo: Yeah. It's my curse. Hey.. I have to uh, be at a place...
Hyde: Yeah I hear that. So do you want me to lock up when I leave?
Leo: Lock up! Hey that's a good idea man. You're one of those idea men, aren't you man?
Hyde: Yeah maybe one day you'll be working for me.
Leo: Really?? Oh that'd be cool man. But hey can I have Saturday nights off?
I watched it back in college when I had the time to watch so much TV. Not that much time anymore - sigh. I still remember my favorite scenes from Friends and That 70s show and watch random episodes form time to time.
I didn't notice this was from that 70's show until about 3/4 of the way through. เฒ _เฒ
ktd1111 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 00:44:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When I read the name Leo, I automatically went to Leonardo Dicaprio in The Revenant. So this whole scene played out in my mind in that setting, where the hut was a thatched hut and they were in furs and Hyde was Tom Hardy's character (up to no good obvs, planning some shady sommat for when Leo leaves).
โข Woman has child, leaves her job to be stay-at-home-mom.
โข Simultaneously, husband purchases a decent SLR so she can take pictures of the kid.
โข Woman posts pictures of her newborn to Facebook, gets a bunch of polite "likes" from family and friends.
โข One week to one month later, woman figures out how to put a watermark on her pictures and "[Stupidname] Photography" is born. She is now a "professional" photographer, and friends and family are expected to hire her for all of their photography needs.
I see this happen on probably a monthly basis on my Facebook feed.
I was at a concert doing some photography for one of the bands there. Next to me was a girl with a nikon dslr with what looked like a very very pricey lens, a crazy flash etc.. I asked her about it and she didn't know anything about her several thousand dollar set up. I got a glimpse at her photos and they were terrible and she was probably blinding the performers with that awful flash.
Why would you spend like $3000 on something you know nothing about?
pbsx ยท 372 points ยท Posted at 19:47:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
could be a vice photographer
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 01:31:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
of their lame ass photos, man with a camera, or that they kinda thought they were a photography magazine?
I have no demonstration of the latter, it just seemed to me to be a photography magazine, but with "grit", "true grit", you know?
The former: just any of their magazines. You go through the magazine looking for the great photos ... and there aren't any. And, at the same time, the feeling that it's a collection of some guy's snaps from a few nights out, a few visits to badly run factories, the car park of a music festival and some gig in Bristol, becomes suffocating.
Can confirm. I too am a concert photographer and the kits the others put together to get the "perfect" shot are ridiculously expensive and totally not worth all that trouble for the situation. I get made fun of for coming into the pit with no other gear other than my camera and a 50mm lens. After each set of whitch we can only shoot the first 3 songs we go to the media area and "boast" about the photos and the people with the most expensive equipment are usually the ones who know nothing about their expensive set up. My 50mm and I make love to those concerts like no one else.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 21:41:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know that. You know that. The people lugging around 4 $2,000+ lenses on 2 $2,000+ bodies and other useless shit don't know that. I find it amusing what reactions I get to my set up
Syrrlix ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:55:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I shoot nikon and the 50mm f/1.4G is about $450 new, and roughly $350 used for a full frame.
They aren't terribly expensive. Im not a professional, (hope to get there one day) but I save as much as I can because I love photography. Even if it means not buying clothes or luxury items till I completely use what I have till it's no longer usable
Isn't your 50mm a bit short for concert photography? My 85/1.8G has been my go-to lens forever, it's fucking amazing. (I'm assuming you're shooting FF here; if you're DX then the 50mm would work out to roughly 75mm, which is within spitting distance of the 85.)
Im shooting with the D800 and Im fairly close to the action to get my shots, and occasionally crop in post as the D800 shoots at 36 megapixels. I just recently bought a 85mm f/1.8 and can't wait to shoot with it. I bought it mostly for portraits tho, Im more than satisfied with a 50mm for concerts.
Depends on the venue I guess, I used to use a Sigma 30mm 1.4 on a Nikon D7000 (45mm equiv.) because I was right up on stage at the venue I shot at. Couldn't get back more than a meter.
I used to shoot concerts in some church settings where the lighting wasn't really good, but a 50mm f/1.8 did pretty well, although I still had to bump the ISO up and shutter speed as low as I dared. The big issue was the narrow focus plane, so I learned to take a bunch of photos, out of which would come one or two good ones.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:51:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, this was for the Spokane First Nazarene Theater Organ Society up in Spokane, Washington, about 2009-2011. I don't think any of that is online anymore. Also, it was halfway decent, but not as good as it could be (I was using equipment borrowed from college at the time).
More recentlyโalthough still two and a half years agoโI rented a camera and took some photos of the all-but abandoned tunnels and trestles of the Camas Prairie Railroad in Lapwai Canyon, Idaho: http://imgur.com/a/ZA6C8
I want to get a camera of my own and a couple basic lenses, but my current budget situation doesn't allow that.
This is dope man! I need to do more exploring in my area.
I hear you, I've been actively photographing for 10 years and not untill 3 years ago I was shooting with nothing but borrowed equipment, as far as digital goes. It made me learn various systems, and was able to choose a preffered brand. It also made me appreciate more what I have once it was mine. Keep it up. And save up. Digital is an expensive hobby
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:57:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I took pictures of my friend's band's show once. That narrow depth of field killed me. Took well over 100 shots. Got maybe 15 good ones.
to be fair, 15% usable photos is a great shooting ratio.
the best photographers are really consistent in producing quality work, but they are also throwing away a significant percentage of unusable shots, like normal people.
Same here my 50mm gets used 90% of the time too. Within the last week I invested in an Nikon 85mm f/1.8 and a Samyang 12mm f/2.8. Can't wait to wreck shit with them
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:55:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was at a music festival, enjoying the music when I saw one of the "hired professionals" to shoot some of the artist. This guy had a massive 500 or 800mm lens and a monopod with a really good dlsr. I walked past and saw that he had the monopod on the body. All the weight of the lens was on the rings
Rip several thousand dollar setup
;_;
There are cars that go 20K miles without having the oil changed
Koker93 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:44:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drove an f450 for 145000 miles for work. Changed the oil every 10k miles at best. Truck still has 0 engine issues. The guy who inherited it from me has put another 25k on it.
It burned a quart of oil every 3rd fuelup though - that may have been part of what kept the oil "fresh."
Thats insane... I have a cheapo cannon DSLR I use for amateur photography. Cost me $500 and I still only have the one lens. I fucking learned how to shoot manual on that thing, and I just don't understand how someone can drop more then that just to use auto...
vi0lent ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:32:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The problem is people think monetary investment means they'll magically be a pro at it. You actually have to put the work into learning how the thing works in order to improve and a lot of people don't want to do that. Instead of looking up info online so they can use it on manual they buy expensive lenses.
I only got a DSLR because I was tired of the lack of control on my phone camera.... I guess it has a lot to do with motivation then.
vi0lent ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:01:40 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was always intimidated by DSLRs, I probably wouldn't have thought of getting one but I was lucky in that my grandma gave me her old canon. I was really tired of the lack of control with my phone camera too so being able to experiment with aperture, ISO, etc is really interesting.
Actually this is a good reminder to get out for a walk now and figure more stuff out.
Damn right. I have a cheaper canon as well($600 ish a few years ago ). Even though I'm not in photography anymore it still serves a great purpose for me now anyway.
That sucks. Messes up the experience for the audience and the performers not to mention how all of her photos will be garbage. Next time you should politely speak with the house manager about it.
I'm not doing that anymore anyway. I went into other things and didn't really keep my connections with the bands I knew. I don't regret it, as I like what I'm doing now better. That said I don't think I'll enjoy a concert as much not looking through a camera
marklyon ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:33:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sometimes people have more money than they have experience.
I've used a guy for doing local commercials who got his start - and now, he's pretty up front about it once he gets to know you - because he wanted to work on movies, couldn't get a job, had a car accident in LA and got a pretty decent settlement. Instead of fixing his car (and probably dodging some medical bills) he bought a shit car and a used, fully-equipped grip truck. He drove to a new state and set up shop. Rented a camera and other equipment he didn't have when he needed it and sometimes just served as an equipment house for other people.
He had no fucking clue what he was doing, but was able to muddle through (even then, back in the days where good work got done on expensive film) and landed a series of gigs for educational television, then industrial films, etc. Basically all the work came because he had the right gear and was cheaper than the next guy.
That's the same kind of person that said to a professional photographer; "I really like your pictures, you must have a nice camera" Just the result of someone that thinks expensive equipment = talent.
Honestly because they probably have the money and its what someone told her she should get because they said it's the best. Everyone always wants the best and if they don't know enough about it then they depend on someone else to tell them what is the best. Sometimes that is the sales person trying to make a commission or get brownie points with the boss.
Rich people, I guess. Or maybe people who think that the expensive equipment will automatically make the photos better without any work.
My dad takes advantage. He's recently gotten into photography, and there are a bunch of people who take it up as a hobby, buy a ton of expensive equipment, and only use it a few times before selling it on eBay. Get fancy stuff at a lower price.
BigFish8 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:59:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Question about using flash at a show. I was at a show in a small venue and the guy taking pictures was using his external flash. I thought the lighting was pretty awesome with lots of different colours which would have come out fine without the flash. Is it normal to use the flash for concerts? I took some shots with my phone, and even with it I was able to get some okay pictures. I would imagine with the better sensors on DLSRs it would be pretty good and you wouldn't blind the performers.
For me personally, I almost never used a flash. I'm by no means an expert in this as I kind of got thrown into band photography as a just a freak thing. Plus most shows I shot at were local metal shows so a lot of the other photographers were not professionals either. Biggest place I went to was the rave,but I was only 1 of 2 people shooting.
A lot of this will depend on the venue though. Some said you can't use it others never said anything. If you're at a good venue you won't need it anyway as the lighting will be good. Only place I ever used one I got permission from the band ahead of time.the light was complete crap there and I wouldn't have been able to get the photos they were paying me for.
My mom got a DSLR for her continuing education intro photography class, mainly because the Best Buy salesman convinced her to do it. That's how that shit happens.
Camera overqualification is a large issue affecting today's society, due to increased enrollment at camera self improvement facilities, educated cameras are now stuck with jobs that will never pay their manufacturing costs.
(This was the closest satire I could get to over qualified grads and immigrants)
My ex was always stuck on auto...i refused and used manual only. Her pictures usually turned out better...mine were all over the place as i was messing with iso, aperture, and shutter speed. Occasionally id have an awesome one among the plethora of bad, and wouldnt have it any other way. Then i started with film...shoulda practiced more with the digi but now i cant go back lol
Silent-G ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:05:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Does your film camera have a light meter on the viewfinder? As long as that thing is relatively close to the middle, all you have to be aware of is your focus and a general idea of what your depth of field is depending on your f-stop. Usually, if you're not sure, it's a good idea to take 3 or 4 photos of the same thing while adjusting 1 stop up and down and changing the shutter speed so that the light meter stays in the middle. That way you get multiple negatives of the same thing, and when you go to print, you can see which one has the best depth of field. Personally, I like photos with a really low depth of field where the subject is really crisp and stands out, and you only have a vague idea of what's in the background or foreground.
Yes it has a light meter. I always shoot with the highest aperture and 800 iso film. I adjust the light levels via shutter speed. I usually do night shots so its beneficial to have the most light coming in so the shutter doesnt have to be open for long. But i love sticking it on a tripod with like a 20 second shutter and just letting that film saturate in the night light...then the pics are bright as day with a cool color scheme XD
kirrkirr ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:20:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's what p and s modes are for.
n1c0_ds ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:01:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is why I suck at photography if it's not in a lab (and even then I suck...) I'm stuck on manual mode, and I can't ever bring myself to change the setting. Even when it would benefit me to not have to speed through the settings to get a split-second chance pic.
n1c0_ds ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:19:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Shoot in aperture priority, set the ISO to auto with a maximum of 1600, and turn off the flash.
With a large enough sensor (Sony 1", 4/3, APS-C etc), that will give you 1/30 exposure or less in almost every situation.
Hey I got a Nikon D3200 about a year ago and I've done some photography and use it more for filmmaking, but your comment made me wonder what kinds of things I could be doing with it. Any tips?
When I see someone taking landscapes with a mid tier camera, pushing the pop up flash down in between every shot I feel bad.
That poor camera needs a better shooter.
Mc_Cake ยท 45 points ยท Posted at 01:43:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You guys are all assholes. If they can buy and use that camera the way they fucking want, just let them. Who the fuck do you think you are, "insert famous photographer name here"?
It's the same as seeing a nice car go by with the gears grinding, being stalled every 2 minutes. Just seems like a waste, is all.
Mc_Cake ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:42:08 on January 29, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thats understandable. But that person is learning. Maybe if you just let them be ot tell them "ey, may be you just gotta relax, and lift a foot while the other goes down calmly, everything is okay".
The pop up on my 50d hasn't been deployed since I bought it used, 4 years ago. I kind of doubt that it was used much before, either, as I bought it from a pro who had just moved up.
n1c0_ds ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:20:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Same thing with my RX 100, and it has a much smaller sensor.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:41:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
THAT being said forgetting auto flash was on when you've already adjusted the aperture is a real pain in the ass when using point and shoots.
arch_nyc ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:56:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is always the tell for me when watching others use their DSLR. As soon as the flash pops up in the middle of a sunny day and they continue to keep pressing it down.
I hate flash in general for my photos. Well, onboard flash, I should say.
Mine does this even on the right settings the flash never goes off unless I want it to it just has a constant half chub.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:11:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Don't worry the camera will get broken by the kid a few months later and then it's on to the next half-assed hobby (if they even have time for hobbies anymore after the kid)
xFiction ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:56:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's like buying a McLaren F1 and just driving around a city with it. Every piece was literally designed for the track :( poor thing
As someone who knows how to use a camera and can't afford the one I want, that makes me feel bad for me.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:36:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Feel bad for mine. I got it ages ago and used it to document aircraft damage around the world. I sucked at photography so it was way to expensive for the job. Then I learned what all the buttons did and started tinkering with taking random shots of stars and shit. That got interesting. I really do a shit job of it though and my camera can still well out perform my skills. I hate people finding out have it because I'm apparently supposed to instantly want to photograph everything for them. I don't take it on vacation anymore either since apparently that means I get to experience vacations through my lens and not with my eyes and relaxing. Vacation is much nicer now that I get to have memories in my head instead of stored on my hard drive.
Manual lenses are amazing for breaking people of AUTO abuse.
Ace1999 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:07:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because it's not used like a whore?
Panigg ยท 500 points ยท Posted at 16:58:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well P is just a slightly different auto mode and will suffice for like 60 to 70% of all photos for most people. The other modes are really only for people that know what they are doing.
I used to work for nikon and the absolute worst thing that happened to me was my first call ever. It took 2 hours.
Customer calls in complaining about my coworkers, they gave him bad advice. This camera (Nikon 1, V2 I believe, not sure anymore) didnt take underwater pictures as he wanted it to.
He spent about 3000 euro on the gear and another 4000 on a trip to mexico to take "professional" pictures that he sold to a furniture store but he said sometimes the flash didnt go off or there is a glare in the pictures.
Turns out he never even opened the manual. Took me 2 hours to explain to him exactly what he needed to do to setup the camera for underwater photography.
Step 1 consisted of him setting the camera from auto to whatever mode (I believe P but again not sure) and to remove the glare he had to put a sticker on the front of his lense....
Yes, 7000 euro "wasted" and all it took was 5 minutes of reading the manual.
Manual definitely has its place, but if you pick up my camera at any random time you'll likely find me on aperture priority.
n1c0_ds ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:53:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If I were to shoot on manual, I'd miss most of the nicer pictures I've taken. However, I use manual for long exposure night shots, so I can stick to a low ISO.
There's a lot to be said about pre-metering your environment though. If you need the camera to automatically adjust for you it can still lead to missing the shot. Knowing what sort of lighting you have, the relative speed of your subjects, if you need to focus on depth or just the subjects, all of that can give you some pretty basic settings and you'll capture almost everything you were there to capture.
That's one of the biggest things I've seen with people that try to use manual. They don't take the time to understand what they're shooting, so they have to adjust on the fly. That's unrealistic, and part of the reason you don't want to trust your camera doing that is it can still mess up from slight problems like where your focus is or what focus pattern you use. Like if you use a centered focus pattern and you accidentally focus on something really bright in a darker setting. The auto adjustments are going to mess up.
So even if you're using auto, pre-metering your scene can be really helpful. Not enough people seem to do it when they try to use manual.
I'd probably say more than that. At least 90%. I have a little point-and-shoot that doesn't get more manual than program-auto.
Once in a while I really really wish I could force the focus or exposure time (often for the same reason). Other than that, it does what I want: take pictures and be nearly indestructible.
Yeah I got that. Having a 2 hr conversation of "you fucked up getting your camera wet" was more amusing in my head. I can't make fun of keeping things on auto mode because I have a Sony a57 that I am still learning to use off of auto mode.
"sticker on lense" is this British for something? what kind of sticky substance should ever be on my lens?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:58:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Panigg ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:04:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Its programmed auto that does things a bit different than full auto and lets you adjust some thngs a little better. Preset user is usually called U1 and U2.
Hey neighbor can we schedule like a 2-4 pm today? I want to get the bazooka back before closing so I don't have to pay for the second day...thanks! -creepy neighbor.
bjsy92 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:01:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah that comment made no sense
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:25:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Apparently if he had money for lenses right now he would be perma-broke
Anyosae ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:36:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
See, you don't have to have no money, you would just have money but not quite enough to purchase a decent pair.
And that's perfectly fine, but if you're spending this kind of money you should honestly have a sense for the romance of it. I feel the road and it's vibrations when my hand is on the shifter. I'm in control and only I can make the decisions. Are auto Jeeps less of a pain in the ass in traffic? Yep. Can it shift better than I can? Yep. But there's no soul in that man, there's just no soul.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:10:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But if you could afford it, wouldn't you never be broke?
zomfgowo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:54:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well it would be depend if I had a disposable income to afford spending money on it or if I had to save up the necessary sum over a certain time period, the later being a less than reasonable choice in my opinion.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:26:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't even own a good camera but my G4's camera is rarely ever on auto mode.
That's kind of unfortunate, because a good phone might even be better, unless the SLR has a fold-out screen.
I once wanted to get a photo of myself riding my bike, but I couldn't find anyone good enough to get the shot that I wanted, and the built-in timer was too short. But, I have Magic Lantern installed on my 50d, so I turned on focus trapping, so it automatically took a shot whenever I came into focus.
n1c0_ds ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:23:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As long as you keep the flash off, you'll get amazing low light quality on most DSLRs due to their bigger sensor, and perhaps a shallower depth of field on occasion.
Don't get me wrong, it's a waste of money, but you do get something better.
This kills me watching the superbowl. Allll the flashes in the crowd, literally thousands of them, all trying to light up a source sometimes hundreds of feet away.
My rules is Auto for bday parties,
A setting for everything
and S for whaterfalls and fire dancers.
I consider myself semi pro. Since I worked doing budoir pics in a studio to pay student bills and now people will ask me to shoot their parties and tip me.
If i could find people to model for me without me having to pay just for enjoyment i would stop shooting parties and stuff for free.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:54:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm married. Sadly the wife is anti taking orders from me and will make a face on 98% of the pictures I take.
zerbey ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:49:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know someone who acquired a very expensive SLR, some well meaning relative purchased it for her. She wanted to become a photographer you see. She used it for a month, in the process she ruined some poor sap's prom photo shoot by taking a bunch of blurry pictures. She eventually declared it to be broken and planned to send it out for a warranty fix.
I spent a few minutes reading the manual and took some great pictures. Response: "Well sometimes it works". I told her to RTFM. She never sent it back, and this expensive camera sits gathering dust on a shelf with its warranty long since expired. She uses her cell phone for pictures now and gave up on her photography dreams.
fgm148 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:28:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Why not offer to buy it off her? If she's that clueless you could get a fantastic bargain!
zerbey ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:38:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have! Even offered her a fair price! She didn't want to sell it.
fgm148 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:40:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
n1c0_ds ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 21:27:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's actually not such a big deal. There are some serious benefits to shooting in RAW, but unless you actually do post-treatment on your photos, shooting in RAW is largely a waste of space.
Even editing JPGs directly is not that terrible for very basic touchups.
my mom bought a $2,000 camera four years ago, the only time it hasn't been shot in auto is when I've used it. Just Google how to use a damn camera it doesn't take that long to learn!
Ccrasus ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:49:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Auto mode is mostly sufficient for normal purpose photography.
By the time you adjust aperture, film speed and exposure time the family member you want to photograph (especially kids) will be fed up. And auto mode does a great job on most cameras.
n1c0_ds ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:14:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Go in aperture priority mode. You set your aperture and the camera does the rest. It essentially becomes a choice between shutter speed and depth of field, with ISO giving you some leeway.
If your camera has a good sensor, you can leave the flash off and get some great low light photos at ISO 1600 or under.
yaavsp ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:19:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
*Doesn't even know that there's more than the 50mm lens that came with the camera.
*Shutter speed, aperture, lighting... Ah who cares, it's all about that watermark.
Some people I know who are using expensive DSLRs don't even know how ISO works. If they get a noisy picture they consider it the fault of lighting. They just purchased it so that they can photograph themselves with awesome focusing.
brasiwsu ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:22:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It took me forever to convince my wife to get a digital camera. She's a 35mm freak. Thought that digital photography took away a lot of control from the photographer, like, it's not "pure" anymore. Takes less talent. She goes on and on about it. She uses a camera like I use my car; all assists off.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:51:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Also said camera is usually the low end of the consumer DSLR offerings for the company. Not that they can't take absolutely stunning photos but buying an interchangeable lens camera does not a photographer make.
They shouldn't even include the full auto setting on any single digit camera bodies. It's a wasted space on the dial. I'd much rather an extra custom setting.
raven575 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:20:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Gets expensive camera.
Only uses on camera flash.
Yanmega ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:02:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
:( I'm guilty at times for this
Usually when I'm like, visiting somewhere, I'll use it just because they're documentation, not artistic.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:11:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's my parents. It's retarded.
notLOL ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:49:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
clicks print to sub-par printer
infinex ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:01:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am by no means a photographer. My dad, who I'd consider an amateur photographer has taught me how to play with aperture and shutter speed settings (and a few other things), and how to follow the rule of thirds, but I have WAY too many friends who have spent hundreds to even as much as $1000 on a camera with a single lens only to use the auto setting. It is absolutely absurd.
I mean, if you're shooting in raw and have half a brain when it comes to post processing then shooting in auto is perfectly fine. I go manual for all my star photography but my "auto-no flash" setting is my best friend when on the go.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:29:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I bought the most basic DSLR and tried my hand at photography. Bought a couple of lenses, created a 500px page, posted a few pics and got a couple of polite favorites, etc.
Eventually, I figured that I'm just not driven enough to do this and gave away my gear to a friend who was doing some great stuff with his phone and a point and shoot camera but couldn't afford a DSLR. He's doing some fantastic stuff with that camera now
vi0lent ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:19:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is exactly why I'm slowly learning how to use my DSLR properly. I don't want to look like a dickhead.
bigone97 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:09:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
*Only uses the AUTO setting.
Man, people who do this needs to get slapped, why can't they just learn how to use the damn thing? Photography's pretty darn interesting if learnt properly...
I borrowed my brother's Canon when I took a trip overseas. I mostly just used auto, because I didn't have much of an interest in professional photography or photography as a hobby. I just used it because it had better zoom capabilities, better picture resolution and was able to take multiple shots faster when compared to my smartphone and Fujifilm point n'shoot.
bigone97 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:59:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, fair enough, you were borrowing the camera for a short period of time and obviously with no interest hobby, there isn't a need to learn about photography, especially in a short time period. You just learnt the basics (I assume) of how to use the camera to bring out its potential for a good picture and that's perfectly fine.
I don't want to sound like an asshole, but it's just annoying when the people OP is describing buy such expensive gear and don't bother to learn how to at least use it properly and use it to it's full potential, IMO, they've just wasted ยฃยฃยฃยฃ's so that they can boast to their friends that they're 'photographers'.
the auto setting is still technically better on an expensive camera than on a cheap one. I pretty much shop for sensor size and lens and autofocus speed but still just use auto.
Amen. I know other people who take photos as part of their job who use the auto setting. F-stop, shutter speed and ISO are not that difficult to set correctly.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:38:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've got an old DSLR, which serves me fine but of course I long for more. I never use auto, so whenever I see someone using auto on a better camera than mine, I feel like insisting that they swap cameras with me. If you're going to use auto, here...take my Rebel and I'll just take that 5D off your hands.
Ace1999 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:07:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well I know how to use the EV and ISO settings. Am I better than them?
I spent years as a camera assistant to a few high-end fashion photographers in the 90s, then I had my own practice mostly shooting album packaging for Atlantic, Virgin and a couple of other major record companies.
I have extensive experience with all types of lighting. I have extensive experience printing B&W for many clients.
I use an EOS 5D that is set to auto 95% of the time.
Most of my best pics from the last 10 years have been taken on a ten year old Canon SD 880 pocket camera.
Shooting on auto or program is no measure of skill or quality of the work.
I think it's a shame that so many people are only using their cell phone as their only camera. I'd rather have people taking good-quality photos with a camera they don't know how to use. Even the newest iPhone or Samsung or Nexus don't have cameras as good as a decent point-and-shoot.
I do sometimes use a proper camera, but I'm one of those people that mainly uses camera phones. I'm not looking to make a business out of it or have a personal portfolio of edited images, doing long exposures, experimenting with lights/shadows or using different settings/lenses to for one subject.
I just want a picture of whatever event I want to remember.
I'm referring to people who take a few pictures and think they're a professional photographer because they told their family and friends that they'd take pictures for them if they paid, but nobody does.
Just because you have a camera and would take pictures if people gave you money doesn't make you a professional photographer. If that were the case, then technically just about everybody is a professional photographer, because just about everybody would take pictures for somebody with even just their phone if they were getting paid.
Agreed, but I'd go further to say even if you did get paid by family and friends, but not enough to live off, you still aren't a professional photographer.
These Facebook photographers (Facebotographers?) aren't making anything even remotely approaching a living.
wrigh003 ยท 36 points ยท Posted at 18:50:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My wife calls them fauxtographers. She's more or less shuttered her own photography business (which, yes, started after she became a mom, but did well enough for a living for a few years) now that there's a billion SLRmoms on facebook willing to shoot a session for $50 and hand over print rights, etc. It's just not worth it any more. It's a compound problem of people not appreciating quality, people expecting greatness for the absolute least financial outlay, and people going into business that have NO ability, skill, or talent, because it seems easy.
Don't get me started on groupon or livingsocial photo deals.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:19:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being part of the military community, this shit is RAMPANT. It's like some of the women sit at home and think "I don't want to get a real job, I'll run down to SAMs Club/Walmart/Best Buy, grab an expensive camera, and be a photographer!"...
I know so many women who actually went to school or pay to take elective courses on actual photography and yet it's always the dirt cheap, inexperienced people who get the jobs (or offer jobs. Fun fact: I've recently seen the WORST homecoming pictures ever through mutual acquaintances.)
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:23:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
wrigh003 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:24:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Meh. Once you've set up the session, composed the picture, taken the picture, selected the best 30-50 shots from 200 or so, edited those, spent significant time retouching people's skin, etc., for a session's worth of photos- that's your intellectual property. Straight out of the camera? Arguable. The rest? Not so much.
Almost everyone these days buys a package of digital files, anyway- the business is moving to enlargements, custom press work, and then the ability to share whatever files you want on facebook etc.
And, like I said, that entire business model is in the process of folding up- even people that do hyper-custom $$$$ sessions are hurting these days. Midmarket people like my dear wife that specialize(d?) in children and families are getting edged out fast- everybody wants something for nothing.
It was good for us for 7-8 years, but she's mostly a really skilled hobbyist with great gear nowadays.
4nimal ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:16:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Almost every photography and photojournalism graduate I know has another job. Even the ones I would consider advanced in their careers all teach college classes, bartend, or whatever on the side. Kinda why I switched majors.
its great I laugh at them for being fucking idiots with their life. LIke bro look at these pics I took that anyone can take. My watermark makes me great at this
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:28:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A wedding or whatever will make you a good chunk of side money or whatever.
I mean you might as well call yourself a professional landscaper cause you got paid to rake the yard for your parents. Yeah you got paid for the job, but you didn't get hired because of your record for excellent work and you wouldn't have gotten hired if you weren't related to them.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:41:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you think that the age has anything to do with it you're wrong. The point i'm trying to make is that people that fit this stereotype are not getting paid to take photographs, they're getting paid to not have said individual cause a fuss asking why they're weren't asked to be the photographer.
Her getting paid had nothing to do with her ability to take photographers or even taking any photographs.. I hate arguing dictionary definitions cause it's meaningless, but if you really want to have that as your perch then I would argue that she wasn't getting paid to take photographs anymore than a protection racket gets paid to protect a business.
Woolford ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:12:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know someone who gets paid to photograph friends weddings, he does it because he charges literally nothing because they are his friends, and because he is pretty shitty. If you ask him he will tell you he is not a professional. Your stuck on the dictionary definition, not the real life use of the word professional.
Would you say the same thing about a lemonade stand run by some kids on your street?
You're giving the kids money to humor them, not because you expect it to be good lemonade.
tthyme31 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:57:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a musician I've been getting paid to do what I do since I was 16. If I had just said ok, good enough then I would never get anywhere. I still get paid and I'm still in school (22) for music performance and many of us get paid privately for work. Are we professionals? No.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 19:01:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:08:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Your being extremely pedantic about this, the people here are using the word professional in a colloquial way which has additional meaning then the literal definition of the word 'professional.'
No. A professional photographer is someone who runs a legal licensed business. Most of the Facebook photogs never bother with this step; they don't have a business license or pay taxes. In some places, you have to have a professional photographer's license in addition to a business license.
I worked for a professional photographer who would report unlicensed photographers who tried to undercut his business. In addition, I also worked as an unlicensed photographer, but would never call myself a professional.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:21:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A 500 dollar day rate isn't exactly highway robbery. Hell, you'll pay your mechanic close to the same, but a photographer doesn't deserve that kind of money?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:52:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You can take a picture, sure. Can you take one that someone will buy? It's the same as being a mechanic and working on a car versus fixing the issue.
People don't pay photographers to "take pictures" like you're suggesting. They paying them to produce an image of a particular thing in a way that accomplishes a specific set of goals. Pointing a camera in a general direction and pushing the shutter will rarely result in material that people would be happy to compensate you for.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:28:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, but that does not mean you're skilled enough to turn out a decent product. You're supposed to be the professional and know things others don't. The problem is those people don't know anything about photography so they have no idea how shitty their photographer is.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:37:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:04:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not my profession. I took the time to get good at it though, unlike the hack "professionals" that flood the profession these days.
That said, I agree, going to art school for photography is a move for kids with rich parents so they can have a fun career with the understanding that if they fail there's a safety net.
Not just getting paid, but consistency. Those should be the two benchmarks of a professional.
If you show someone a portfolio, and they point and say "I want you to do this for me," then you should be able to accomplish and get results. Especially without wasting time.
Strictly speaking, professional means paid, but a real professional brings way more than that to a job.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:25:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I did actually say that. I think that in professional situations, there are certain expectations. Just because someone pays me to play basketball, because I showed them one good shot, if I can't consistently perform as advertised, that's not professional... That's borderline fraud.
My point was that if I as a pro photographer sell myself to you based on a portfolio, I damn sure better know what I'm doing, and deliver results. Consistent, repeatable, expected results.
I've seen a lot of people going around calling themselves pro photographers, selling themselves based on portfolios consisting of mostly lucky shots. If you asked them to do it again, they'd be dumbfounded and probably waste most of your day trying to replicate the same thing. A pro would know how they did it, do it, and deliver. That's what people should pay for and expect of a professional. You can be as pedantic as you like, but I think my definition of professional is more in line with what people think it means, which is not at all unreasonable.
csl512 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:01:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It does technically, by one definition of the word, but there are other very clearly defined definitions and depending on context, the assumed definition is usually that a professional has a recognised level of formal training as well as membership of industry associations which carry strict requirements for conduct, ethics and ongoing training. You can complete a four year engineering degree and when you graduate you absolutely cannot call yourself a professional engineer. In Australia anyway.
The same applies for professional photographers and it would be pedantic but more importantly, deceitful and misleading for someone to describe themselves as 'professional' simply because someone once paid them to take a few photos.
The top definition of any given word is not the most important one. The most important definition is the one that is agreed upon by consensus/common usage in any given context.
If I describe my wife as a 'fox' I assume that only a very small fraction of Reddit will ask me to post photos of her bushy tail.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:40:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hey, don't apologise, because by your definition I'm also a professional musician, professional writer, professional teacher, professional builder, professional emergency responder, and professional driver, so if my day job as a professional electronics technician doesn't pan out, I can get new business cards printed up. So thanks for that, I'm feeling much better about myself than when I woke up this morning.
And, no, I'm not a professional photographer. I'm a just a very good photographer with 35 years experience.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:33:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
At no point did I argue that the definition was wrong, or I certainly didn't mean to. What was wrong was your determination to doggedly stick to one narrow definition.
But I'll address your point about the lucky amateur. If they are consistently capable of obtaining great shots (ie, suitable for publication) regardless of lighting conditions (mixed daylight and artificial light) and know enough about exposure compensation to capture the texture of a white bridal dress against a backdrop of snow, or a black cat's fur in a coal mine (without peeking at the screen after each shot) then, maybe, they can claim a level of professionalism. If they carry contracts and have public indemnity insurance and are prepared to incur all costs associated with reshooting an event because they stuffed it up on the day, then, yes, I'll call them a professional. But if I were in charge of an advertising campaign and was paying a lot of people a lot of money (models, art directors, stylists, set designers) then I'd be looking for someone who had some form of association with an accredited body. They would call these people professional photographers, they would all know exactly what they were talking about, and if your dictionary doesn't also include this very common meaning of the word, then it's a shitty dictionary or possibly they had to leave out words to make room for the pictures.
Have a nice day.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:52:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If someone pays me $20 when I help them move it doesn't make a professional mover. Or if I get paid to babysit for a couple of hours, I am no way a professional babysitter/nanny whatever.
Yes but what level causes you to be engaged? Does it mean you own a camera? Does it mean you have been doing it for awhile? When do you go from random dude with a camera to professional photographer?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:25:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
If I wanted to be a lawyer, I would need to take the specified classes to be a lawyer. Just having free time, and deciding that I am good at arguing does not make me a professional lawyer. If I wanted to be a wrestler, even a bad one, I couldn't just walk up off the streets and start wrestling. I would likely get hurt without proper training. If every person with a camera is a professional photographer, then how come I can charge so much more than them? Why would anyone hire someone to take their pictures when it would be so much easier to rent a camera? Photography is art like any other, and even if you don't take special classes you still need a lot of experience before you can consider your work professional.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:44:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's always Evangelical Christian women who like country music, coffee! (and talking about coffee! Did you know coffee is amazing? As if everyone in the universe doesn't like coffee), and wearing bulky white sweaters with riding boots. And somehow, despite living in the built-up suburbs, all promotional photographs (usually of other women in bulky white sweaters and riding boots, or of guys in cowboy hats) are apparently taken in some pastoral field 80 miles from nowhere.
My facebook feed has pretty much specifically been tailored to avoid this type of person, and yet, like you, I see this happen on a roughly monthly basis on facebook, and 90% of these friends of friends look the same, act the same, and take the exact same pictures.
I could see it in my mind. Only my Facebook feed has pregnant women in pastoral fields with their shirts pulled up over their stomach creepily rubbing their belly.
I really want to know what the deal is. Because I also knew a handful of Evangelical Christian girls who (despite most of them going to college) seemed to be brought up of the mind that women shouldn't have a career outside of wife, mother, or maaaaaaaaaaybe midwife, and ended up "doing photography," a few making a legitimate enough living out of it. Why is "photographer" so popular in this community compared to basically any other job? Is "photographer" somehow a more modest, feminine, godly profession compared to, IDK, "teacher" or "nurse" or "bank teller?"
This...is amazing. You managed to pretty much exactly describe this phenomenon. Do you see many of them also slyly advertising for products like BeachBody and vitamin Shake Neal replacements?
My mom did this but actually took classes and studied and started a small business. She made a pretty good name for herself in our city (she specialized in baby photography but also shot the occasional wedding, senior pictures, etc.) but "retired" when she had our youngest sister. Now shes passed the proverbial photography torch to my sister, who is also quite good.
See? It doesn't always have to suck
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:23:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'll be the judge of that thankyouvermuch.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:16:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Two girls I went to high school with both did the same thing and they started fighting when certain friends would choose one or the other for engagement pictures or whatever.
I had a girl I knew in high school do this recently except she had just figured out how to use basic filters in photoshop. She kept trying to push "chrome effect" on people to purchase.
I used to be really into photography. Developed my own film so I could push/pull the ISO, printed my own pics so I could dodge and burn and other neat effects. Invested in a decent mid-range set-up and lenses. Read up on technique, studied composition and lighting. I mean I was really serious about it. Then along comes consumer digital photography. At first I was excited. No more worrying about running out of film! No more trying to wrangle dark room time! And then the flood of people like you just described came.
I don't even take snapshots now. Just stuff for documentation purposes.
[deleted] ยท 186 points ยท Posted at 16:25:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
It wasn't exactly just a hobby. It was a secondary duty when I was in the military and I did real estate photography for a while. I don't think that really makes me a professional photographer, but I was more than a hobbyist.
I'm not really sure why I quit. But when everyone could do (shitty) photography with little or no effort put into it, it just lost it's appeal. It also probably had something to do with doing it as a job. No better way to kill the love of a hobby than to get a job doing it.
But when everyone could do (shitty) photography with little or no effort put into it, it just lost it's appeal
Opposite for me, made me wanna rise above the crowd and get some good shots. It's worked well, I have a great resume of awesome pics to show people now, and I know my way around a DSLR now.
That certainly makes me feel better. I have nothing against all those people that got into it, I know that I was the only cause of my disaffection. With the ease of entry, I'm sure that many talented people will show up that wouldn't have been able to get into it back when the cost of entry was higher.
I didn't actually say I was skilled. I was certainly technically proficient, but I was never really pleased with my artistic abilities.
Also, I don't think it was a logical reaction. It really didn't have anything to do with all the people coming into it, it was just a shift in my perception of it as the new technology introduced a huge paradigm shift.
I hope he was saying that the loss of development and the turn to digital is what killed his interest in the hobby but he totally sounds like a hipster who quit because it became mainstream and available to more people.
Yeah, it sounds like he was into it more because of the niche aspect and not for the creative purpose. There's nothing wrong with that, though. Everyone enjoys their hobbies for their own reasons.
He's saying that the availability of good digital photography equipment that is largely automatic removed the skill and patience required to get good at the practice of his art , which made him feel worthless at his now-lost art
You just described my college experience. I was a photo major prior to digital cameras emergence and really loved my skills when it came to manual darkroom manipulations of photographs prior to Photoshop. I would masterfully (compared to my peers, hardly a master while still a student. ) dodge and burn, double expose and blend negatives together, all in total darkness. And then right at the beginning of my senior year the first dlsr came out that could rival 35mm in resolution. I saw the tide turning and got out of the dying media I was in. I sold all my medium format gear and like 1-2 years later dlsr was surpassing 70mm quality. Photoshop had also emerged and proven that in minutes the same effects could be accomplished that would take me hours of trial and error in the darkroom to accomplish.
Lewis Carroll (yes, the Alice in Wonderland guy) gave up photography because the dry developing process that was invented in his time made things too easy. We're talking about a process that nobody even really remembers anymore, and was a predecessor to the modern analog photography with rolls of film, but it still was enough to spoil things for him. Carroll would have probably been horrified by modern analog photography.
It's terrible that I let it ruin my interest in photography, I really enjoyed it. Although I think perhaps I was a bit taken with the mystique of it. The idea of the 'lone photographer making art' was always appealing to me. I'd hate to think I was so shallow that it was the driving force behind my attraction to it.
I think that is what happens to most of them. With so little investment, it's easy to give it up. I don't blame those people, it's not their fault, I just lost my passion for it when everybody could do it.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:05:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Haha holy shit. You just described so many women on my friends list. If only I had a dollar for every "__________ Photography" Facebook page I've been invited to.
LOL i just saw this happen a year ago.. I think its verbatim too lol. Even worst.. She was a tricaratops so it made her even more obnoxious.
testrail ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:14:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As someone who got strong armed into this for our engagement photos, and ended up getting nothing but 20 photos posted facebook...fuck this person so hard.
Ugh, you just perfectly described my sister. I'm a bird-watching hobbyist photography, my other sister has an actual art background with multiple photography classes under her belt, aaaand then there's stay at home mom sister. Who likes to pretends she lives on planet pinterest and shoots into the sun for every single one of her photo shoots.
oj-93 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:21:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
omfg this is hilariously true
you just described my sister lmao
Whats even worse is when you buy an SLR and everybody else thinks you are a photographer and wants you to do their wedding, for free.
Dude, you know why actual photographers charge 2 grand for a wedding? That is because all those cameras and lenses, and an assistant cost money, and it is sort of a bitch dealing with all those people and pushy family all the while knowing they will hate you if you don't get everything exactly how they want
For gods sakes I'm not a photographer, I just have a nice camera, now leave me alone
People actually pay my aunt for pictures. I don't know how, or why. Her poses are awful (one picture was a front view of a daughter on her hands and knees with the dad on his knees behind her), lighting is terrible, there's no sense of balance or composition. Her pictures are either unedited or edited until it's dead. She's not very good at Photoshop either, so she tries to do "artsy" pictures that are black and white with color pops. Only the colors all have rough edges and often leak onto things that are supposed to be black and white, because I don't think she knows what the pen tool is.
I just don't get it. I don't get how someone can pay over $100 for pictures that look like something your mother or friend could do for free. And she has no sense of humility about it at all! She honest-to-god sees herself as a professional.
Kashtin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:50:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I got into photography as my hobbies always fucking change, and I absolutely hate these people. I will likely never call myself a photographer. I hope I'm going down the right path. I love post, shoot primarily in aperture priority, and have myself a single camera and two prime lenses.
My boyfriend's sister literally did this. Can't upvote enough. lol
Ironically, my friends who are actual photographers (I tend to have a lot of photojournalist buddies) like to post camera phone pictures, which all look amazing BTW. I'm pretty sure it's their way of bragging. lol
About 17 of my friends have done this, and only 1 of them is making a living wage. Why? She spent a ton of her own money on photography classes, exciting software, professional backdrops, lighting and props. Now she makes more than she did as teacher and can work from home. It just happens that she has to work 12-14 hour days, 6 days a week in return.
EnnexBe ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:31:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Quite often it's "[First Name] [Middle Name] Photography".
I've got about 9 Facebook friends who are seemingly devoid of any sort of creativity.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:43:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is exactly my mother at the moment, except replace "kid" with puppy.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:22:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ahahaha, this describes so many women I know. A very small portion of them are decent. Most are awful. I'm like "dear god, someone paid you for that shit?"
As someone with subpar photography skills who makes $0 of those subpar skills, I wonder if I am in the wrong business.
My office hired one of these "mom-with-coolpix" people to do our office portraits for the website. It turned out precisely as shitty as you might imagine it would.
Getting a real photographer to get mine done later cost me $400.00+, but the difference was night and day.
akharon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:52:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because artists who are commissioned to do big works are born with the talent, it shouldn't take years of practice and training.
I see the same thing. Luckily, a friend of ours is an actual pro, with photoshoots in magazines, etc (she does her own post-process work). The difference between what we get and what I see other people paying for is night and day.
Frictus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:57:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In my experience its more- rich parents get girl expensive camera for Christmas. She takes pictures and water marks them. Has a few friends run around in her backyard and posts them on her fb page. Goes to art school that rich parents pay for.
Feverel ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:13:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's all fun and games until family and friends invite you to their weddings as a guest but also expect you to be their photographer.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:15:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If she's having fun and people are willing to pay for it then get over it. That's the beauty of the American dream
My husband just bought an expensive camera with several lenses to help out a desolate friend. We don't know shit about it. Are there any good subreddits for beginners? I promise not to pretend I'm a pro. I have a full time job.
I'll do you one better. I know a "photographer" with this same story who does all the photography for a major global brand. They have owned a camera for 3 years.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:46:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
and thus is born: Angels Wings Photography.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:46:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can confirm. Cousin did/still does this on her facebook after getting knocked up. She also gained a ton of weight, and would get upset if you didn't find the nude baby pictures cute. Had to defriend her.
I know a woman started this way and now she's an award winning photographer who supports her entire family (including her husband) with her art. She literally started with a photoshop filter and grew her eye and her art from that one innocuous photo.
richmana ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:35:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep! However, one of my friends has actually become successful doing this after she and her husband had their first kid.
I'm one of these people. But, for the record, I had people telling me on a fairly regular basis how much they liked my photos and that I should do it as a business. Pair that with an actual passion for photography and I started my own business. I've been trying to get it off the ground while working a steady job and going to school, but there's so many other people who have the same type of camera and friends who let them take photos for a portfolio and it's hard to compete.
So I sign up for craft fairs to show my portfolio, get my name out there, and sell shots that don't have people in them... buildings, nature shots, that type of stuff. I still love photography, but am 90% sure the business will never take off because of the huge amount of other people with a DSLR and a facebook page.
I briefly had that kind of feeling that I could get into photography. I got tons of compliments and I was like "Hey, I could develop this as a hobby seriously and go from there."
But some nagging voice in the back of my head put me in my place. I don't have the eye to be a photographer aside from candid shots.
My brother however, he has the patience and and eye for good shots. He was shooting pictures as a guest at a friend's wedding much to the annoyance to the actual photographer. The actual photographer's pictures were over processed while my brother's actually looked share-worthy.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:32:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There's one of those in a local group I belong to. It wouldn't bother me at all if she could actually take a decent photo. Like, I'm not even trained in how to use a damn camera and I can look at one of her photos and point out five things wrong with it! And she's probably posting her "best" photos to entice people into hiring her! It's so awful that I wish I could block her, but she posts stuff about meetings. It drives me crazy to see her horrible "photography".
fosiacat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:32:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
dude. spot on. was part of the reason i got rid of facebook. got so sick of all the fauxtographers.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:08:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Basic bitches 101: Fauxtography and the Social Networking Platforms
Corollary to this. I took photography in high school and since then I have purchased a string of nice cameras. Add to that I married a woman with an actual art degree. Mix together with my cheap family and friends and now we keep getting asked to take pictures at people's weddings. We said yes a few times and it never worked out well.
I'm not sure why, but it always seems to be youngish women who do this. I consider myself to be a hobbyist photographer; I've done a couple of paid projects, but I wouldn't call myself a pro.
But these girls, they get a entry level DSLR with a kit lens, and suddenly I see "Firstname Middlename Photography" on Facebook, riddled with fair-to-middle pics, all stamped with watermarks and copyright notices. Like anyone wants to steal your awful photos.
Edit: I don't want to discourage any aspiring photographers; we all start as unskilled amateurs with hundreds/thousands of terrible images. But maybe wait to sharpen your skills a bit before going pro and inundating my newsfeed.
webwulf ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:17:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is a huge issue on military bases. I have a selection of about 500 "professional" photographers to choose from within a 3 mile radius.
I know someone that did this after having a child. Now neither her or her husband works anymore they live very well off her photography business. She is so booked its crazy
Lasts no more than 2 years. They take family photos, couple photos, baby photos. Then they have that second kid.
majorjae ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:20:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is me and my wife. Difference is she knows she isn't professional and she uses the watermarks to try and make sure no one uses our kids picture (which someone has tried already)
dlbear ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:51:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah my wife went through that phase.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:58:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There are 2 women in my family that this has happened with. Drives me nuts.
tibsalot ยท 628 points ยท Posted at 13:45:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's actually really hard to take great quality pictures. My girlfriend says she wants her sister to take pictures at her wedding, but I know damn well I'm paying a professional photographer for it. The difference in quality won't even be close.
To win this argument tactfully, you should consider saying something like, "Babe, if your sister is worried about taking pictures she won't be able to enjoy the day with us. It's a special day she should share in rather than taking pictures from the sidelines."
dthvt ยท 464 points ยท Posted at 16:14:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly this. I have a friend who is actually a well established professional photographer that I refused to hire for this reason. He later told me that it was the first wedding he'd been to in a long time that he could just relax and enjoy. That type of experience for your friends and family is more important than "giving them business".
That type of experience for your friends and family is more important than "giving them business".
THANK YOU!! I have friends and family that to this day get upset and hurt because I turn down their offers. I haven't shot a wedding in ages, and my equipment is pretty much obsolete. Just let me enjoy the day - it really sucks watching all your friends dance and drink and celebrate while you're running around making sure you're getting everything and trying to field requests from their bossy distant relatives who think you're there to take free family portraits for all the guests.
naddi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:38:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My dad was a professional photographer for 35 years. Weddings were his bread and butter, and often one of my sisters or I would assist (we were like, 12). It always bothered him to do weddings of friends and family because a) we were invited as a family to go celebrate but dad would end up working the whole time and b) he felt compelled to give a discount because it was family. This was also back in day when he would shoot in black and white and develop the photos himself. So it was a lot of work for no profit and you didn't get to enjoy your cousin's wedding. It's a real bummer. I'm glad you were conscientious about it!
Neromatic ยท 155 points ยท Posted at 16:31:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a professional photographer, I recently went to a friend's wedding I was sure I would be asked to shoot. Damn, it was so refreshing to not have the responsibilities and to enjoy myself.
bn1979 ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 18:33:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Same boat. Last wedding I was at where I wasn't working was my own - 9 years ago.
imperi0 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:25:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My brother's fiancee just asked me to shoot their wedding. :/ I am a wedding photographer and I took their engagement photos, so I guess I can understand that she thought it'd be an appropriate thing to ask, but...come on. I have one brother. I just want to enjoy the day.
I take a lot of pictures at family events because I can take a decent picture. However, the act of documenting an event take you outside of the event in a lot of ways. You aren't participating...you are only an observer.
When I was the maid of honor for my friend's wedding, we solved this issue with her cousin by hiring a professional photographer and telling her we "wanted to make sure two people could get all the perspectives, because even though you're an amazing photographer, you can't be in two places at once!"
Also, maybe consider telling her you don't want to not have documented a certain detail of the party because the sister was out there having fun. And, what about the pictures the sister should be in? Will some random guest be taking those?
That might work, but in general trying to argue about how the logistics would work only opens the conversation up to further debate or possibly even implying that what you really think is the sister isn't competent for the job. Arguing about the logistics is only going to challenge her to continue to justify why her sister is capable or could do it rather than making her think about how it will feel in the moment.
There are a lot of reasons that her sister is a shitty choice for being a photographer--including the reasons you listed--but you want to play up the one that's going to resonate. You go for emotional resonance in this case because it's clear that his fiancee's current idea has totally set aside with reason or rationality.
It's pretty hard to pick apart, "This is an important day for us and our families. I don't think she should have to play role of the full-time observer just for the sake of us saving a few hundred bucks. Don't you want her there beside you enjoying the moment with you?"
Again, I would imagine the reason his fiancee likes the idea having her sister take the pictures has to do with how it will feel being able to say, "Look at my wedding photos--my sister did them." You don't want to invalidate that (even if you know the sister takes dog shit photos on a potato phone), so the best way to negotiate in to a no-lose proposition is say that by getting a paid photographer it will allow her sister is free to be part of the full experience and will still be able to take her magnificent photos of the more candid moments.
--I have no idea why I'm trying to solve hypothetical problems about other people's lives who I don't know on a Saturday morning, but there you are.
I made decent money as a photographer since a lot of friends and acquaintances hired me to save $$$ rather than book a professional. That's exactly why I stopped completely and refuse requests. It was so stressful. I hated it.
I'm not sure why you think it's lying. It's pretty basic negotiation so that both parties can get what they want without really sacrificing anything. There's no dishonesty involved if you actually believe her sister should not be given that particular responsibility for the day. You're just making a choice to emphasize a set of values that will appeal to your girlfriend in order to smoothly negotiate for something you both want which seems quality wedding pictures as well as having some special shots the sister took.
If you're really of the opinion that your girlfriend should respect your wish for a professional just because her sister is a flat-out shitty photographer, then you're not being respectful of her position and invalidating her feelings. From my experience in relationships, I would say that is an unreasonable standard.
Thanks for your input. In the scenario I thought it was dishonest because I assumed you didn't actually believe that. Based on my experience with Facebook photographers I'd assume she really wanted to be the photographer and is bringing that camera weather you ask her to or not.
As for the second part I don't think it's disrespectful to disagree with someone. You wouldn't take your car to a bad mechanic to try and respect someone's opinion would you?
Dotjr ยท 148 points ยท Posted at 15:13:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Good plan. I've met with many clients who knew someone who had their wedding shot by a friend or family member. As you can imagine the results were less than stellar.
On the other hand, make sure your professional is actually a professional. There are some really terrible "photographers" out there. Be wary of cheap deals. Sometimes you get what you paid for.
It's funny that professional has been associated with good. You even used it in this context to explain that a professional is a professional. It's been engrained into the language but its not always true.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 16:22:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well the definition of the word is both a job done for money, and someone who maintains appropriate and courteous business relationships. The latter is what he meant.
Yeah but the implication is that they can make a living doing it for money, which implies some level of quality.
MpVpRb ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:56:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's funny that professional has been associated with good
..and "amateur" has been associated with bad
A professional does it for money. It's likely that (s)he is good, otherwise, people wouldn't pay. But, the pro needs to get it done quickly, or they can't make enough money
An amateur does it for love (the literal definition of the word). They may suck mightily, or may be far better than a professional, since they can afford to take as much time as necessary to get it perfect
Dotjr ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:54:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is the thing, I mean professional in both contexts. There are photographers in my area that I look up to because the quality of their work is outstanding. But then there are those that have subpar work, but yet still make a lot of money. Technically they are still professionals but their work is still garbage, but it has a place.
Think about the difference between McDonald's burgers and Five Guys. Both are providing you with burgers, but Five Guys is so much better.
I understand, but Five Guys is called Five Guys, and McDonalds is called McDonalds. I just dislike how our language uses the same word, professional, to describe two very different concepts. One, that the person simply makes money from the craft, and second, that they are excellent at this craft. It can lead to confusion over who simply is designated as a business, and who is actually good at what they do.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:24:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I got bad news -- the complexity of the language only goes downhill from the varied meanings of the word 'professional'
rivzz ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:25:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Its not that confusing if you listen or look at the context the word is used in. He is a professional soccer player vs their work is very professional. One means he gets paid to play soccer, the other means they do great work. No one introduces themselves saying hi, im a professional landscaper or professional salesmen. Just like how Amateur means unpaid or just unskilled. Professional could mean paid or skilled depending on ccontext.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:40:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I agree. I just point and click and I prefer my pics to professional ones. I hate posed pics.
On the other hand, make sure your professional is actually a professional. There are some really terrible "photographers" out there. Be weary of cheap deals. Sometimes you get what you paid for.
Best bit of advice I can offer... Ask to see an entire wedding album.
Their site/facebook page/whatever might have a photo or two from each event. Even a stopped clock is a good photographer twice a day. You're going to want more than two photos, so see a complete album from an event... were they actually able to consistently keep up that quality, or was it just throwing stuff at the wall?
It's actually really hard to take great quality pictures.
It's really not. It takes a little learning how everything works and maybe when to use your flash and how (if you're a studio photographer you'll need to learn how to light)
but beyond that what you're really paying for in a wedding photographer is the specialization of skills a wedding photographer. Someone can be the freaking best at taking pictures but totally blow it as a wedding photographer-- not knowing when to be or where, not knowing the best angle to get to take certain pictures from, not knowing the best lens to use at specific times, not knowing the most romantic poses or fun poses for the bride/groom and their wedding party, not being able to find the best locations, etc. etc. etc.
none of that is really about the pictures themselves, it's about experience in knowing what people want out of wedding pictures.
same deal when you pay someone to take your family photo-- they know the tricks on how to make your baby smile, how to get your teenager out of his angsty slump, how to position the family to make it adorable, etc.
not really about the picture quality
e: and any photographers secure enough in their talent and skill won't have trouble admitting it-- the talent and skill isn't about making what you shoot look good, it's about knowing what to shoot
I once accepted taking wedding photos, only because the couple was pretty much broke, and if it wasn't me, nobody would. Holy shit was I underprepared, but I still managed to pull something vaguely decent off. Wedding photography is absolutely nothing like the photos people take in their free time.
There are no do overs in weddings. If your camera dies, you drop it, the batteries run out, the card is bad, you're screwed. Weddings move quickly. You need not only to be able to take a good photo, but to take it quickly, with minimal preparation. You need good equipment, and no, the cheapest Canon camera with kit lens won't do. You need high end, preferably f/2.8 zoom lenses, a flash and backup hardware in case something goes horribly wrong. Then there's the need to know what's going on, where you're needed, etc. You absolutely need to be able to take good photos on the first try, no "let me try this again" at crucial parts. It's a wedding, not a movie.
That's the bare minimum. Then a good wedding photographer of course knows weddings, knows all the typical poses and photos people will want, makes sure not to leave out anybody, knows how to deal with the bride's aunt with a just bought DSLR barging in, and has the ability to talk to everyone and make sure they'll be happy with the results.
It was an awfully stressful day, and I won't be doing it again before I improve by a lot.
I wish more people knew this. I had two very close friends of mine get married a while back and I told them that I'd get one of my photographer buddies to do it on the cheap as a favor to me. I used to be a wedding photographer myself so I know some great folks. He agreed to do a 12 hour day for $1k, which is about 1/4 of his normal price.
They decided that they'd rather save the money and have a girl who works for one of them shoot it since she's kind of in to photography and has a "pretty good camera." It was an entry level crop frame nikon and kit lens. I looked through her photos and it was mostly shots of flowers and very poorly done landscapes.
I ended up shooting their wedding as their gift, because I refused to let them have shit pictures from their wedding day. Once they got their images they couldn't thank me enough.
A phrase I've heard is "there are photographers, and then there are wedding photographers" spoken in much the same kind of tone you'd say war photographer.
There is no way I would deal with a first time director in a high stakes, once in a lifetime, single take production.
Instead I'll take relatively low stress shoots, like trailing rednecks on the bayou huntin gators, or real time searches for Mexican cartel leaders.
I remember reading an interview by a well known war photographer ages ago when it was something I wanted to get in to. One of the questions he was asked was how best to prepare yourself to shoot a war. His answer was simply "Shoot weddings."
I've been an enthusiast since I was 12, and somewhat of a professional for the last few months. Last summer, after graduating, a family friend asked me to shoot her wedding, and even offered to pay me a decent amount. I turned it down, because I know that I don't have the necessary gear or skills to do them justice. I would have felt really bad taking payment for my level of skill. They ended up hiring a much better photographer at my advice, and they got a bunch of great photos.
Weep2D2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:35:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a photographer and I shot one wedding. The family loved the photos and the sisters were envious. Sister later gets engaged but doesn't want to pay my price. Hires a friend. Photos suck. Bride cries tears of regret.
If you need a way to "keep the peace" have her sister do something like engagement photos or something. But def hire a professional for the wedding.
Arkazex ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:00:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The lengths photographers go to to get some shots is quite impressive. What looks like a nice shot over a still pond could very well have been taken by somebody hanging upside down off the edge of a footbridge.
Yes! Please hire a professional! I was convinced to take photos at a friend's wedding after I'd warned them several times I don't have professional equipment or experience and do NOT know how to pose people. I have a nice camera and take good pics of my cat in good lighting so they figured I'd be great. I could tell the bride was not pleased with the result.
FloppyG ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:23:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, the camera does all the work and if you just set the little dial to "P" or "Auto" it'll all look professional, right? I mean, the people who study photography for years and practice daily are just wasting time, clearly.
FloppyG ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:14:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Going with some random girl my mother in law knew from church as our photographer is probably the one thing my wife and I regret from our wedding. It was still expensive, and the pictures weren't great. But that's wasn't the worst thing. The worst thing was, in a world where you can get TBs of storage for a few hundred bucks, she deleted most of our pictures. She picked the few that she liked, and then completely deleted the rest before even checking with us. Wasn't fun telling my grandma that we lost a rare family picture that included all her out-of-town grandkids...
Go with a professional. Pictures are one of the few things that last from your wedding, so you might as well get them done right.
Don't do this. She'll get in the way of the pro and make things way more difficult. The pro will likely have an assistant that already knows how to anticipate his needs and do what needs to be done. Another body ignorant of the trade will only complicate things.
Sevruga ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:30:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have been asked a number of times and always reply that if they hire a professional I am happy to take some too, to contribute. Every photographers sees things differently and even if they like a few of mine they are welcome to them. But I am not taking in the stress of a (hopefully) once in a lifetime photo opp.
I'm on the opposite end of that. I'm into photography (mostly nature photography) and I'm OK at it, but everyone thinks I'm a professional because I've got an expensive camera. I can never enjoy anything without people asking me to take photos. My uncle even had me take the photos for his wedding. I did it because I thought it would pay for my drinks for the night, but I didn't get as much as a cent for it "because I'm family".
Plus, photographers don't have a great salary. It's best to hire a professional.
tomdarch ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:03:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm an OK photographer. I could shoot 2,000 exposures (or more) at a wedding and come away with +/- 2 really great shots and a few pretty good ones (though, there is a chance I won't get lucky and get a any great shots). The reason you hire a professional photographer is to get 10 or 20 great shots of that day/evening and a stack of really, really good shots to sort through. Your cousin/neighbor isn't going to get you those consistent results, even if he/she gets lucky once in a while.
This times 100. When I was shooting weddings 2,000 frames was about my average for a full day, and I'd end up giving the client 500-600 shots total. Of course the posed romantics and family portraits blew away most of the candids, but I wouldn't put out anything that I wouldn't call exemplary of my work.
Hiring a good photographer was one of my best wedding investments! Not only did I get amazing photos, they were edited professionally and given to me in the best quality! I can literally make a wall-size poster out of each picture.
1LH3 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:56:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ha-ha. If your gf wants her sister to take pictures that bad you should hire a professional anyway (letting the sister take hers too) and then compare after the wedding. Could teach the sister how difficult it is. This is coming from someone who spent as little on my wedding as possible except for the photos which were amazing.
Sister bought a camera worth a couple of thousand, and runs your typical "photography" Facebook page. Granted, she's come a long way, but those early days man.
I'm a VFX artist, and she would claim I have no idea what I'm talking about, and be super condescending when I'd just be trying to help her understand her camera, and file formats (I was explaining raw vs jpeg). Later, she'd ask me how to add a watermark to her photos in photoshop. Sigh.
Ack. Watermarks. Just because you are now a professional photographer, doesn't mean that you have to put your watermark on photos of your kids that you post on Facebook.
NOTE: YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO REUSE MY IMAGES, THANK YOU :)
Because that's a legally binding statement that totally protects them.
Boukish ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:47:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It does actually help them in the event of copyright infringement, since it removes the credibility of a defense centered around the ignorance of the copyright.
But if someone doesn't fully intend on filing a lawsuit to protect their IP, those kind of warnings are superfluous and a bit amateur hour.
jonassn1 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:10:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But they don't help against facebook.
Boukish ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:19:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well yeah, but given the ToS that you agree to there's no copyright infringement occurring - they have a license.
jonassn1 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:22:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly, but what alot of people don't seems to get is the moment you post pictures you are giving Facebook's the rights to it.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 22:40:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I read a story, that I'm too lazy to find the link to, where a family was in Europe and walked past a genetic counselling conference where there was a giant photo of their child who has down syndrome and the caption basically saying something like 'don't let this happen to you'. The conference organizers had gotten the photo from a free stock photo website who in turn had stolen it from Facebook. Perhaps, the watermark might have deterred that...
the worst is seeing typical facebook profile pictures where the subject gives credit to the photographer
like come on man it's just a facebook picture, no one's going to hire you off it
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:46:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This always irritated me about a classmate. She was taking okay-ish photos and watermarking them - huge, in a generic script serif font. Like, I get you don't want your photos stolen, but be real - who's gonna steal your low-res photos of a motorcycle competition when there are thousands of photos out there without a watermark?
I'm in photography school. My teachers actually hate watermarks.
Eloykwik ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:40:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This was me when I first started. It was weird. I think I was worried someone would steal my shit images. Then I found out at school what metadata was and how to search the web for files with my metadata on it. Bam, watermarks gone and have caught 2 different companies using my stock.
I don't think watermarks are inherently wrong. Because it's easy with lightroom, I watermark any photos I post to facebook. It's just my name, and it's written about as small as possible while still being readable. If facebook didn't strip exif, I'd have my name there and be done with it.
And, the only reason I started doing this is when photos I took of an event and posted to facebook showed up in the event's publication without my permission. It was a nonprofit that I support, so I'd have let them use my pictures for free, provided I received credit somewhere.
PRiles ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:10:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My brother tags all his photos in the meta data from what I understand. Has allowed him to catch people tying to use his work apparently.
I just got my DSLR, and I've heard a lot of good things about shooting in RAW mode. All I know about it is that it supposedly has more channels for colors? Or something to that degree?
Would you mind explaining more to help an aspiring photographer?
Both jpeg and Raw have RGB colour channels. Jpeg stores 8 bits per channel, per pixel. So that's 256 values (0-255). 256 red256 blue256 green equals that 16 million colours you see everywhere. That sounds like a lot, and most screens can only show that many, so you're good to go right?
Weeeell, when you take a picture with your camera, the sensor actually receives a hell of a lot more information than what is saved in a jpeg image. The camera has to process it so that it can be compressed down to 16 million colours.
When you shoot Raw, it saves what the camera sees into 12, or even 14 bits of colour per channel, which ends up being billions, or trillions of colours. It also saves information about the settings you used (ISO, shutter speed, aperture etc), so when you start processing it yourself, you'll just start off at that exposure level. But because you have all that colour information, you can modify the exposure after its been shot, or even bring up shadow detail and bring down the brights individually. Beyond that, you can also apply denoising and remove artifacts with special algorithms that accommodate for you cameras sensor patterns.
Tldr: Raw processing lets you squeeze all that 12/14 bit colour into a range that your 8 bit screen (monitor, tv, phone etc) can display, without losing detail in underexposed and overexposed parts when you shot the image.
That's awesome! I follow a lot of photography instagrams, and their portraits always look great cause they use the raw channels to up a lot of the shadows and such. I'm definitely going to start shooting in raw now, thank you so much :)
Am I the only one that just thinks I'm shit at everything? In a good way. Even things I'm competent at I still know I suck compared to someone out there.
It's what keeps me improving. I know I'll never be the best in anything so I try to get as close as possible.
Isogen_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:39:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Isnt it better to just add a digital signature via metadata info?(I thinkmits EXIF and IPTC?) At the place I work, I sometimes assist in editing the raw images of the rugs and throw in some crazy stuff into the metadata out of boredom sometimes.
48893 ยท 309 points ยท Posted at 12:57:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted] ยท 288 points ยท Posted at 15:01:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 156 points ยท Posted at 19:27:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When you said the site was not built by a web developer, I had a feeling that it would be easy to navigate and would work without me having to check dozens of 3rd party domains on my script blocker. I was right.
Fuck, exactly. I love reading Linux docs online because the old farts writing them just hand-code basic HTML so you can get right to the point. I wish everything was written to work over 56k.
There's a reason why we have standard templates. They work. They are clear, browsable and were designed by experts. Right now every website looks like a powerpoint had a child with Facebook's timeline.
If you install a tool whose sole purpose is to prevent websites from functioning as intended, it doesn't seem very sensible to be upset when some don't function correctly.
[deleted] ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 23:50:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do you really not get why people install blockers?
I get why people install blocking software. What I don't get is why, when your blocking software's tampering renders a website nonfunctional, you blame the creator of the website (which works) rather than the creator of the blocking software (which broke the page).
I have a friend who works customer support at a store. Some people recently came in very angry that the bed they bought there broke. It was clear from inspecting the bed that adults had been jumping on it. I understand why somebody would want to jump on a bed, but I don't think it's reasonable to blame the manufacturer for the results of your jumping on the bed.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:39:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Your analogy is flawed because "working as intended" means possibly installing malware via a browser exploit. The analogy is also flawed because I'm not complaining to the creator of the page--I'm lamenting the sorry state of the web in general.
A better analogy is that I'm complaining about the fact that I have to have a guard dog and security cameras because my neighborhood has gone down hill.
The purpose of the tool is to make the website function as desired by the end user. Often the intended function is terrible. When a web developer intends to make the website the way users desire it to be, people will like it.
Yes, but OP's complaint is that some pages do not function as desired when running blocking software. My point is, it's not the site creator's fault that you failed to produce a working end-product with your modifications..
I would say that sites that are harder to manipulate by the end user are more poorly designed than sites that are easy to manipulate, given the open nature of the web.
Would you consider installing a tool to keep a Web developer from sticking his dick in your ass even though that was his intended function for his dick?
thepobv ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:27:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe that's just the MVP, he'll this might even be a side project... just because it's bad doesn't mean he's not.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:49:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's not photography in the typical sense though or am I old fashioned?
48893 ยท 50 points ยท Posted at 14:11:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Whether it's the shooting or the editing that's bad, the key thing is that they all claim to be professional photographers, and those are their promo pics.
No that's editing. Photoshopping and editing are interchangeable terms. If you are referring to when people simply adjust the contrast or colour etc of a photo that's considered image processing.
Np! Always nice to put my Masters to use once in a while haha. While photoshopping and editing are interchangeable, it should be noted that when people use the term Photoshop, its usually meant in a more negative light, and when something is obviously edited and looks fake or out of this world.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:05:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is Photoshopping not editing? Or are those two different things. I've always assumed you could use them interchangeably
Think of it like this- every photo that comes out of a shoot needs to be "edited". White balance, exposure, noise reduction, etc. You're just changing levels of light and color and trying to enhance or subtract certain details in the shot. You can do this in photoshop but it's not very efficient for multiple photos.
Photoshop really shines when you need to actually change the content within the photo. Replacing content outright, subtracting glaring details or unsightly items, etc. This goes beyond simple editing and is part of a post processing work flow.
Wilcows ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:40:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In light of this. Could somebody here accept my shameless plug and judge my Instagram pictures? @w_soetman.
I don't have a lot on there but I enjoy taking pictures and I was wondering if I could get some feedback.
I'm not a professional photographer by any means, but they look alright. I'd recommend experimenting with lighting and color a little more, maybe branching out and trying new subjects rather than just nice sports cars and the occasional cityscape. Overall not bad, though--better than a lot of the stuff I take.
Wilcows ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:54:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know a bit of variety won't hurt but I personally just love taking pictures of cars :)
I'd suggest for some of your car photographs try to bump up the vibrancy and saturation just a touch and increase your exposure a little. The compositions arnt bad though,
Keep shooting and trying new things :)
Wilcows ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:53:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks. It's hard to get the colors right since its night photography and I'm trying to get to know my DLSR a bit but I'll keep it in mind.
Hey dude, i'd suggest pushing the shadows up on the auto shots. People need to be able to see the detail in the dark areas, especially the wheels and other areas like mouldings, bumpers, etc. I like the content. Keep it up.
[deleted] ยท 137 points ยท Posted at 15:38:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I only take pictures for my own enjoyment. Mostly just nature shots. I realize that I'm not good but I just enjoy experimenting and looking for cool places and things to take pictures of.
beenusse ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:31:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The issue with these people is that they're claiming to be professionals and demanding payment for their work.
That immediately raises the bar way higher than for an amateur photographer. Things that will net you "good job!" as an amateur will net you endless laughter if you claim to be a professional.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:00:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah of course, that's something entirely different. It's dishonest and delusional to claim to be a professional without any sort of qualifications or expertise. Personally I'm way too self conscious of the pictures I do take to do something like that. I'd never take pictures for other people for money.
I thank you for that, being the daughter of a professional photographer. My dad's taken a big hit, even in his niche (still photography for film/TV) because people claim to be professionals and will charge a fraction of what my dad will.
I've been taking photographs for my enjoyment ever since I was a kid, I shit you not, with my dad's guidance. And even then, I'd never dare charge anyone for taking pictures of them, and I won't do the work a professional should be doing.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:01:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd say that would apply to all types of art.
vi0lent ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:54:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's pretty much where I'm at right now. Taking pictures of landscapes is easier for me to slowly learn how to use my camera.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:50:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is me as well.
Lakanooky ยท 196 points ยท Posted at 16:13:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For over 20 years I owned a thriving portrait studio. Many degrees and awards at the local, state, and national level from professional trade organizations. I now work at a bank because of this. Soccer mom's with cameras killed my business with shitty images converted to black as white. Sigh.
afdlips ยท 141 points ยท Posted at 18:05:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not to be rude, but did you even try to adapt to the changing market? Perhaps explore a new niche? Portrait studios are a thing of the past. I know because I have one and spend almost 100% of my shoots on location. Sure we use our cyc wall all the time but it's mostly for product photos. I built it to do portrait work.
CloudEnt ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 22:19:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Portrait photographer here. I'm closing my studio because I've shot there three times in the last year. Everything happens on location now.
akesh45 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:57:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think portrait studios were a dinosaur of the film era. You can't control clouds passing over the sun, but you can control the lights in your studio and you know your shots will always look the same.
Digital now enables you to look at the photo right way, realize your F-Stop, shutter speed or focal length isn't right and you can correct on-the-fly.
akesh45 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:06:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The portrait studio is useful for banging out family and kid photos fast along with professional shoots for models.
Digital now enables you to look at the photo right way, realize your F-Stop, shutter speed or focal length isn't right and you can correct on-the-fly.
Pros don't really have this problem as much. If we're not sure we usually just vary our settings in burst mode.
I did try. But it just wasn't to be. The style of work I did was not in demand any longer. It is what it is. But it has taken its toll on the trade organizations, not only in numbers of members, but in quality of work produced. I still get certain publications and the images they use to showcase the best the craft has to offer have greatly declined in quality over the years. The public just doesn't recognize the craftsmanship of a quality portrait photographer any more.
akesh45 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:02:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The public just doesn't recognize the craftsmanship of a quality portrait photographer any more.
I'd image demand is higher than ever now with facebook and linkedin.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:09:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think it's a problem with photography in general. Modern consumer camera's surpass the quality of older professional cameras. People don't see much of a difference between using their camera and having a professional do it - and I tend to agree with them.
The one thing professionals have that I/amatuers don't, is the ability to know how a picture is going to turn out before they take it. This is extremely valuable at one time, important events - like weddings. Just trying to get some photos of your kids, take them out back and take pictures until you get one that's good enough.
To your point, there are niches still - but when the whole market is downsizing, it's just not worth some people to try to keep a dying business a float.
akesh45 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 05:01:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The amateurs aren't killing the photography field at all. The big money has always been in events, commercial shoots, school shoots, family photos, etc.
However Photojournalism went down with newspapers, internet stock photography is easier than ever, magazines has less budgets, and it's easier than ever to enter(no dark room, tutorials everywhere).
Wedding guys are still making bank and I don't see that changing...although momtographers who nab a big client via connections definitely hurt bit by bit.
The niche businesses, wedding photographers, and photographers who take a fashion aproach to portraiture I feel are the ones who are survivng, but they are working a lot harder for a whole lot less than they used to. There are still some great ones out there, but a lot less than the we're 15 years ago.
Not to sound like a jerk or anything, but if you got taken out of business by a couple soccer moms with new cameras, then how much of an edge did you really have on them?
Sure everything is subjective and all, it just seems that in the photography world most photographers seem to think they are on some kind of higher plane than every one else, sorry, didn't mean to direct this at you specifically, just something i noticed.
I don't disagree, but the scenario you describe is still a "lose" for the photographer, because they "lose" clients. What happens next (whether the photograph adapts to the changing market) is immaterial to my (rather small, jovial and immaterial) point.
akesh45 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:09:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Usually the client ain't happy....the soccer mom jobs I've seen have either been really good(they are pros) or super shitty.
akesh45 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:08:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I agree as a former pro, however it's easier than ever for some momtographers to get better and eventual become pro thus saturating the market. Also, alot of photographers are freelance so losing a gig here or there can add up to alot of lost business over the years plus the word of mouth.
No worries. But it used to be an investment to be a quality portrait photographer and run it as a business. I spent many years honing my craft, investing in education, equipment, material, practice, etc. Now for a few hundred bucks, anyone can shoot as much as they want, edit down to a few acceptable images, preso some buttons to mask flaws in an image and convince someone it is good. It's the equivalent of a machine that could create gourmet meals in a $20 microwave with $1 worth of cost and opening a restaurant next door to a fine dining establishment and charging $6 to their customers. It would put the chef who studied his art for years right out of business.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:43:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Whenever I attend a wedding, the paid photographers always have to put up with a bunch of dummies shooting photos above their shoulders. I feel really bad for the actual pros who have to put up with this shit.
My college degree and time spent learning darkroom photography instead of the business of owning a photography business is now used to navigate photoshop and take nice pictures of my kids. :/
I just dont have the business sense to get my work the recognition it deserves.
As a professional video editor and videographer I can relate to this. What's worse is that I gotta hear about how they are really a filmmaker...no you're not. You shot 1 wedding and a shitty music video for a shitty band.
This is why I tell people I'm an aspiring Video Editor/Videographer and not an Amateur. Amateur has some connotations of experience or education to some people. Aspiring is a pretty catch all for "I want to do this one day and am very much still learning".
it's the pretentious part that gets me... if a grounded wide eyed person comes up and says they shoot and edit videos and want to pick my brain and get some tips then that means more to me than some pretentious prick that is trying to come off as some amazing artist. And shit...some people that have made 3 videos or whatever do pull off some amazing stuff.
I dunno... I don't make anything artsy. My full time gig is making on-air promos for a group of networks. "Tonight... Vin Diesel...The Rock... bang boom pow... Fast and Furious 20...tonight at 8" - It's not some high minded award winning stuff...and I actually love helping people and younger folks learn the craft so I'm not like guarded and protective of the title or anything.... I dunno...I'm rambling and it's snowing so I'm just sitting on reddit.
But yea....pretentious people fucking suck. Fuck them.
No shit. I'm a cameraman, and (used to be) a damn good one. I've shot nature, pro sports, auto racing... I have a thorough understanding of the craft, how to lead shots, riding the iris when moving across varied lighting, etc...
But I'm not the guy you want writing the story boards or on the editing station, unless the shots are already laid out and we're only doing dissolves or cuts, nothing special. I can accept that. Give me a good camera and tell me what you want shot-wise, I'm your man. Ask me to produce a video soup-to-nuts, and you'll get a Facebook special.
As a fellow filmmaker, I can totally relate. While I focus more on narrative, I also have done quite a bit of event videography and it drives me nuts when a photographer decides that because they can take photos, they can shoot quality video. No
Well most photographers I know take great video... the problem is they dont know what the fuck to do with it. There's now the time where you have to tell a story with all these clips.
The video world is weird... you're a filmmaker...I can't really do that. I've done some comedic sketches and narrative stuff but I sort of BS my way through it. But, as a on-air promotions producer I can watch a movie and make a badass promo for it. Or shoot and edit an awesome highlight reel... but some filmmakers couldn't do that. Yes they are all "video" but the skills necessary for films, weddings, trailers, whatever is alot of different things... writing, graphics, color grading, set design whatever. I just hate people that think they can do anything video related because they've dabbled a bit and have a DSLR.
I just commented a similar response because I didn't see yours. I absolutely agree. There is so much that goes into it: time, equipment, skill. People wonder why it's so expensive and then find a film student or someone on Craigslist to do it for them and, surprise, it turns out shitty. What's worse is when they don't admit it's shitty and they fucked up.
Also: Just fix it in post :/
torbray ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:49:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hey, got a question man if you're willing. I've ran a gaming YouTube channel for a few years and I've reached a point where I can't self-teach myself as well. What resources did you use to improve your video-editing skills to professional levels?
I know very little about editing video game footage but in my head it'd seem like it'd be somewhat limiting and get repetitive. If you want to learn new skills then you have to approach the same thing from a different angle. If you typically do hyper active techno Edm type stuff that's fast and frantic then try different musical styles like orchestral...you'll be forced to edit in a different way. I know a lot of movie promo editors for networks that get stuck into hyper cutting everything and when they get a slower movie to handle they have trouble. So forcing yourself to approach things differently could open a whole new world and style for you.
akesh45 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 05:13:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Learn some adobe after effect...take it to the next level.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:26:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Aka pro photographers who are salty that amateur photographers are undercutting them and the clients can't tell the difference.
People are hiring amateurs for low prices and they still like the photos they get, so what does it matter?
leanik ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:43:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously. I've seen pictures from professionals that I thought were terrible. Some friends got their engagement photos done professionally and literally every shot has some out of blurred plant in the foreground with the couple in the background... that shit is so distracting...
At my own wedding I hired a photography student who was trying to build their portfolio, but I had one of my bridesmaids and another friend bring their DSLRs as well. Spray and pray method all the way with my wedding photography. I'll tell you some of my favorites came from my friends. Not that the pro did a bad job, but my friends were able to try somethings artistically that I really liked.
For real. Professionals go on and on about "oh the ISO this, the shutter speed that, depth of field," when all people are really looking for is a half decent photo with better resolution than a phone. No one really cares if it's professional or not.
Being a professional photographer is really only useful if you're doing landscape stuff or photography for modelling. Beyond that an amateur does the job just fine.
leanik ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:58:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I see the merit in knowing technical specs. The ability to manipulate what the camera does to get a certain look can go along way, but as a professional you need to be competitive and get what the customer wants. If a professional can get a better picture (and depending on the situation I bet they can) that's great. However, I think your going to run in to diminishing returns when you consider price and quality.
I've actually shot a wedding in an amateur capacity with another amateur. I got better shots because I was manipulating specs and the other one shot on auto. Arguably our candid shots were comparable but my portraits were way better.
I could see the pros arguments about amateurs. The internet is a treasure trove of information about what a fancy camera can do. If anyone want to be a professional the information exists to be more than an amateur, but a lot of people like takin' the easy route... but I've ranted long enough.
akesh45 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:39:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
However, I think your going to run in to diminishing returns when you consider price and quality.
With Weddings? Occasionally there is an amazing amateur or retired/ex pro who takes some awesome shots......usually it's garbage quality since shooting events is something few amateurs have done. Hell, even pros I know can falter alot if they never shot events.
Majority of amateur wedding and event photos are laughbly bad when you sit them side by side with a pro.
I've actually shot a wedding in an amateur capacity with another amateur. I got better shots because I was manipulating specs and the other one shot on auto. Arguably our candid shots were comparable but my portraits were way better.
If the bride and groom were the type to read alot of bridal literature/magazines, they probaly regret it but didn't say anything to be nice. Every single time they view thier friend's wedding photos and think back to thier own....they'll know.
leanik ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:03:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have a feeling you have completely misunderstood the point of my argument. I was talking up the technical knowledge a pro likely has. Having done semi professional photography (yearbook) in the past, I was excited to relearn the technical aspects and I think that improved my shots over the auto-setting amateur.
Also, I take it you be never been to a poor person's wedding. Not everyone had money for photography let alone lots of money for photography. Their plan was to have a friend borrow another friend's camera. I highly doubt they were really had a large expectations for the photography at their wedding. It was an after thought. So, I doubt they were just being nice when the other option was no pictures at all.
Which brings me to a second point. It sounds like you're getting salty over the fact pros are getting pushed out by amateurs when pros are pushing themselves out by being too expensive for many people to afford.
akesh45 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 08:18:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Which brings me to a second point. It sounds like you're getting salty over the fact pros are getting pushed out by amateurs when pros are pushing themselves out by being too expensive for many people to afford.
Generally a pro will be willing to work out a deal on finances or features.
The biggest risk aside from quality is that an amateur might have equipment fail, show up late, or even miss key moments. They might be able to live with the quality but not "no pictures because they're only memory card failed".
I don't even do family portraits or weddings so I have zero to be salty about....but amateurs volunteering to shoot weddings is sketchy to most photographers since it's among the hardest to shoot well. There is no second take and if you do screw up your liable to be sued. Bridezillas are just as bad as they say....I can't imagine a cheap one.
Also, I take it you be never been to a poor person's wedding. Not everyone had money for photography let alone lots of money for photography. Their plan was to have a friend borrow another friend's camera. I highly doubt they were really had a large expectations for the photography at their wedding. It was an after thought. So, I doubt they were just being nice when the other option was no pictures at all.
I wonder if the caterers, priest, Venue, and DJ got paid? I can understand cheaping out it's one of those $1000 weddings in their grandpa's backyard or bar. For somebody spending $5k-10k+ though, wedding photography is not something to be cheaped out on....heck...even for cheapo weddings I'd say at least drop $1000 on one to swing by for 1-3 hours. He'll help everybody forget it's a cheap wedding.
akesh45 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 05:31:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I would seriously not take this person's advice....most of the people complaining are talking about casual stuff like senior photo gigs(easy cash, occurs yearly) they lost out to momtographers.
Hiring amateurs for weddings is something I would rarely recommend unless you are broke. Stuff like "sorry I missed the ring ceremony, battery died!" or "geez, who knew it would be so dark in here" are the difference between a pro and a really talented amateur who shoots well. If we're talking a newbie friend who just bought an amazon off craigslist.....well...who needs good pictures of a wedding...it's the memories that count!
I think they have every right to be a bit salty about that, however, I don't think they're losing as much money as they think. Most of those cheapos prob wouldnt have been their clients anyways.
Exactly. So much saltiness and condescending attitudes towards amateur photographers in this thread.
mfball ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:35:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is basically what it boils down to. I obviously understand how it would be super frustrating for professionals because most of them have probably spent tons of time learning and honing their craft, only to have a bunch of people who know literally nothing about photography swoop in and suck up all their business, but their skills only have as much value as other people are willing to recognize. If clients can't appreciate the difference between a pro and an amateur, it's the job of the pro to convince them that there is a difference, and that it's worth paying more for that difference.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:51:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because the pictures are bad, and the average person has no taste for what makes a good photo. Especially when it comes to post processing.
If the average person "has no taste" for what a good photo is, then why bother trying to master the "good photo" if no one is going to notice the difference? That's why amateurs are so good at undercutting pros; most people don't have the trained eye for "good" photography.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:45:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Why learn how to paint if most people know next to nothing about painting and what makes a good one? Because you enjoy it and take pride in it. Same as any art.
leanik ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:44:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, but based on that argument it's kind of silly for "professional" painters to bitch about what "amateur" painters do.
Well if you look at modern painting, most of them couldn't paint an egg. But the standard of painting has become so convoluted that no one knows what painting is anymore, so you have people painting a canvas red and selling for a million dollars and people flock to it because they're told that they should.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:05:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The technical aspects of painting are separate from its value as art, and while you can't easily be objective about its value as art you can definitely critique the technique involved.
For a music analogy, you can always be objective about how skilled a musician is, but it's harder to judge the value of their music. And then some songs just say nothing about the skill of the artist involved, just because there's little there to judge. Like the blank canvas paintings, they could be amazing painters, but I wouldn't judge them as a painter based on an experimental painting.
The nice thing about judging art -- it's as cool as you want it to be. If you think a blank canvas says something interesting then that's great, but you can be justified in thinking its a little lame too.
Anyone can create a photo. Hell, anyone can create a highly memorable photo. But when you get someone who has spent thousands of hours analyzing what makes a photo stand out, capture a moment, and just make everyone looking at it pause for a few seconds; instead of having one memorable photo, you'll have a collage of them.
You can get someone crappy to shoot your wedding for cheap, and you'll get a lot of technically correct photos. Or you can spend a few thousand, and a lot of your own time, to get a photo album that you will pull out on a regular basis when you want a reminder of why no one has been suffocated in their sleep, yet.
But they aren't all bad. I think the idea that the only good picture is one taken by a professional photographer is ridiculous, and the only person who gets to decide if a picture is good is a professional photographer is ridiculous. DSLRs have made it much,much easier for people to take better pictures and even really, really good pictures.
My sister in law is not a photographer, she is your every day soccer mom. She has some feature on her DSLR that takes constant shots - so she points the camera at the kid and the camera takes 100 shots in a couple minutes. More often than not out of that batch there is one really good action shot. It doesn't need any extra post processing - it looks great.
I have seen many amateur photographers take fantastic pictures. Just because they aren't professional doesn't mean they don't have an eye for composition or that they haven't done a lot of research about lighting and framing etc.
If I can pay x to get pictures that to me are fantastic and exactly what I want, why would I pay 10 times more for professional pictures.
I have a friend who does incredible landscape photography. He loves it, does it as a hobby and is really good at it, and sells his prints for big money. His pictures are amazing but they take him hours of work so his prices are only for a certain demographic. To say his pics aren't good because he isn't a pro makes no sense.
BorisBC ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:58:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You're sister in law is what they are salty about. Although they really should blame the technology not the person. These days you can get a camera that will do a good pic easily. And a great pic with a bit of practice. Compare that to someone who's gone to school for or spent 30 years in the biz and you can see why they'd be salty.
I did the same thing when I got a dslr, although I ended up selling it and just use my phone. If you can compose stuff OK you can do alright. Besides I got sick of viewing everything as a photo shoot! Lol
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:56:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Like you pointed out, it's just different demographics, your going to get what you pay for. If that's the pictures you want then awesome, but I wouldn't say they're guaranteed to be good. I'd argue that objectively, most shots taken by people that don't even really grasp what their camera's doing are going to be bad.
What I see a lot of, among the Instagram 'pseudo-professional' crowd (keep in mind there's amazing photographers on Instagram too) and especially on the post processing subreddit (I can't get a link because I'm on mobile sorry) is unnecessary light room color correction just for the sake of it. Especially just clicking the first light room setting that looks good, and not really understanding what you're trying to accomplish by changing color. It's kind of like overly compressed music, it sounds (looks) 'better' but it also feels like you lose something. It looks immediately overdone instead of subtle. Your processing should aim to be unnoticed, but that's just my opinion.
Many of the edits on the post processing subreddit would look far better if they just blended it back in with the original photo at 50%, or even less.
And that's just post processing, which I know much more about then actual photography. I'm not a pro photographer, but I can definitely tell when a photo was taken by a really good one.
But just because there are some that are bad doesn't mean there are none that are good. saying that the only good picture is one taken by a professional photographer is kind of ridiculous. By what measure? If someone else thinks it is an incredible picture and they want to pay money for it, why do you need to say - no, it can't be good because it wasn't taken by a professional photographer. The reason professional photographers are losing business is because of this attitude that they are the only ones that can take a subjectively deemed "good" picture.
You should see some of the photos that win in amateur photo competitions - to call those all bad because of the person taking them isn't professional doesn't make sense. Someone who is an amateur can have a really good knowledge of their camera, of composition, of lighting, and have everything come together on a good day to get a great shot.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:14:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You can get a good picture certainly but it's kinda like throwing darts at a board and just waiting for it to hit. Anyone with modern day cameras and computers could eventually take a great photo given enough time. But taking a great photo on command is what you need a photographer for, one would think. And there will always be a demand for photos shot with older technology like film, which does take skill, just like there's demand for old compressors and stuff that were used on older records.
Exactly. A huge part of hiring a professional is that you mitigate your risk of missing a critical shot. This isn't terribly important for situations where the shots are posed. If the shot is bad, you can redo it. But in situations where you only have one chance at some shots, like a wedding, there's just no way I'm giving the job to anybody but a pro.
akesh45 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:22:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
People are hiring amateurs for low prices and they still like the photos they get, so what does it matter?
This is a misnomer. Usually it's casual shit like senior grad photos or some baby photos. Back in the day this used to be the $$$$ safe fall back gig for some photographers or thier main income.
I think it's more so many rather just keep the money and settle for potato quality.
Clients definitely can tell the difference....especially with weddings....
In a similar vein I do motion graphics design and I very frequently have people balk at my rate even though I have a good 10 years of pro experience. How hard can a logo design and animation be?? They almost always come back after trying to get their cousin who did some tutorials or a guy online or something and I always turn them down. I already know they don't value my work and they're gonna be the worst kind of client. About anybody can do it with the software and time but making it look professional is a much different ball game.
I don't like to take pictures at all. But the snooty shit storm that comes up when this comment gets posted always cracks me up. Not that I disagree with you, but people come out of the woodworks to "stake their claim" in the other photographers are shitty and I'm not debate. It almost comes off as people trying to convince themselves that they don't actually fall into that category.
The vitriol between photographers is immense. It's really rare to find someone who's willing to give you feedback or critique your photos in a way that doesn't revolve around their creative vision being somehow superior.
If people are hiring happy go lucky soccer moms with subpar talent rather than a twenty year old vet, I think it would be wise to consider that maybe clients actually would rather deal with someone they like and get less quality in the actual product than deal with someone they don't like or someone who makes them uncomfortable.
Photography used to be about knowing how to take a picture. That's simply not good enough anymore. You have to market yourself as a personality that people will gravitate towards as well.
This holds true even for people who have gone through a photography program in college. It's amazing. 4 Years studying and you can't set your exposure properly? Nothing on photographers but for every 1 amazing photographer, there are 50 who take B&W pictures of their feet at the beach.
The number of times I've had people tell me to check out their portfolios online, only to find poorly composed pictures that have been sepia'd or hyper-vibranced is disturbing.
I'll admit, a few years ago I did fall victim to the trend. It lasted about a month, then I realized I really didn't need "fancy" photos of my dogs playing in the yard and woods.
I'm not even in the business, and it irks me. Can't imagine your headache though of actually going through those kinds of portfolios.
Actual photographer here! This annoys the shit out of me. There are so many people out there getting work and having literally 0 talent. They steal potential clients and business when I'm trying to make a decent living. Then their client posts their shitty ass photo on Facebook then instantly degrades their business look. When they could hire proper photographers to do their work properly. not some friend of theirs on Facebook that happened to buy an expensive DSLR and having no post processing skills at all.
Rant over.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 17:27:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's really more proof that "making it" in photography is 10% knowing how to use a camera and 90% marketing yourself.
More like 5% knowing how to use a camera, 15% knowing how to take a good picture, and 80% marketing. But that's only for commercial photography.
caseymac ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:22:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Actual photographer here, as well. This is the nature of any industry. Things change. These people aren't stealing from you. They're providing a lesser value for less money. If you provide quality photos and quality isn't your client's top concern, start marketing to those who care about quality. There's more money in photography now than ever. There are so many outlets and methods for getting paid - you just have to get a little creative.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:45:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I understand but with any business, you are selling yourself more than your product. Work on selling "You", not necessarily your work.
A wise successful photographer on the west coast once told me this:
Some of the most successful photographers he's seen have been some of he worst ones. But they know how to market themselves. I'm great at taking pictures but I wish I spent more time getting my name out there. It's 75% pictures and 25% marketing for me. When I started I should've been 25% pictures 75% marketing.
The iPhone killed professional photographers. I was a portrait photographer working in a studio for 13 years. I could get 20 amazing different looking photos of your baby before they knew what was happening. Now someone will take 200 photos on their phone and get 2 good ones where the light isn't terrible and maybe the baby is looking somewhat into the camera. I left the business because the company I worked for was going under. I also couldn't stand people who showed up an hour late for their appointment and use the excuse that they have a child so they can run late.
Or maybe they take 200 pictures and actually get a bunch that are just as good as yours were. People realized with SLRs that they could get really good pictures that looked the same as what they were getting in photo studios - they just had to take a lot more to do so. If no one but professional photographers could take a decent picture - people would still be going to studios and hiring photographers just like they did before SLRs came out
0OOOOOO0 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:48:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Before SLRs came out? I think you mean before digital cameras, unless we're talking a hundred years ago
Shows how much they actually know about photography.
akesh45 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:18:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
people would still be going to studios and hiring photographers just like they did before SLRs came out
Commercial clients, weddings, and professionals do...I'm guessing your average broke family ain't dropping $500 on baby photos or family group photos like they used to because they rather have the money IMO.
Or maybe they take 200 pictures and actually get a bunch that are just as good as yours were.
They're usually pretty horrid....for anything remotely critical, you gotta have a pro.
Cool! Since it is no talent, take your phone and produce pictures like hers: http://www.ljhollowayphotography.com/ I will wait 5 minutes. If you can't, then you are full of shit.
I don't see why people think that photography and photo editing are so hard. There is so little that goes into taking a photo compared to almost any other profession.
Do you like them? Do you enjoy taking them? That's the only thing that matters. Photograph for you. If other people like your work, good for them. If not, who cares. As long as you enjoy it, you're good.
I do really enjoy taking pictures and always have fun doing it but for some reason I've never thought about it like that, and I'm always hoping to get a certain amount of likes or recognition. Thanks for that perspective
I've gotten a lot of compliments for some of my photos, but I know I'm strictly an amateur. I take photos for myself, and I'll do it if others request, but I'll never ask for compensation I could probably edit my photos more, pretty much - I'm told that I'm great at composition, but editing is where I need more practice - but I'm kinda lay, TBH.
But at least I know that about myself, and don't pretend to be something I'm not.
When we were getting married, my wife and I started looking for a photographer. Every person recommended to us just was not very good. I finally talked to a friend who was finishing a PhD. He's a photojournalist, was a war corrospondent, and even had been nominated for a Pulitzer. He did give us a discount, but would have still been cheaper without one than most of the "professionals" we had been directed to. The quality of his work was so far above the others I'd seen that no family member complained about the cost (or about us not using their friend) afterwards.
People tend to recommend photographers that they like as a person first. As long as the work is passable, they'll refer them out. It gets a little more difficult to find a photographer when you're looking for a particular skill level or style.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:58:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not going to think I'm a professional, but some simple shit we're gonna post on Facebook, I always tell my mom to just hand me the camera because I know I do a dcent job.
I have a bridge camera and I enjoy taking photos when traveling. The camera has taken some decent photos. I was given a book by a well meaning relative so that I could become professional. I have no intention of doing so, the book was helpful but I know I don't have a particularly good eye for shots and the good shots are pure luck and a decent camera.
"Oh, that is so lame every girl who can aim a camera thinks she is a photographer. Oooh, you took a black and white picture of a lawn chair and it's shadow and developed it at Sav-On. You must be so brooding and deep."
Definitely. I will admit I'm another person who has considered going into it. I'm definitely not bad, I've had a lot of people tell me I should go into it (including more critical friends) - but I know I'm nowhere near being as good as I'd want to be to do it.
But people will compliment easily. And if you're good enough to be able to get great photos of certain things (for me, pets) then people assume you're good at all aspects of photography. And they also don't realise that it's a lot harder if you've got to do it all in an hour or 2.
I find mass post-processing to be the hardest part, personally. Never figured it out.
Photography must be easy because half my friends call themselves photographers. All you need to do is drop a few thousand on equipment, and bam. DSLRs make it even easier since there's no cost to fucking up a picture, just retake until you get the desired effect.
I myself have been using photoshop to turn shitty cameras into better ones with lots and lots of compositing and manipulation.
If you like photography as a hobby that's great! But because you spent a couple hundred on camera and can slap a filter in the photo does not make you a prefessional. Most of those stay at home mom photographers are usually so flaky and unprofessional about when your photos will be ready and they usually are crap. I print enough of them at work. If I have to explain resolution to you then you are not a "professional".
Yup. Takes YEARS to develop professional photo skills.
Vihul ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:18:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As someone trying to learn photography, I'm always trying to experiment with what amount of editing is good, and what amount of editing is bad. I feel like this and composition of images are the hardest parts of photography.
This makes me so self conscious as a young person trying to break into photography. I understand my limitations and where I need to keep working, but also I have been hired by a college and a museum, as well as for weddings, birthday parties, concerts and a few other gigs. I'm really trying to stay humble because I don't want to be this type of ~ fauxtographer ~ - but at what point does one know that they do have talent?
For example, there is a certain point where putting a watermark on is important for getting a name out there and isn't just superfluous.
Noblese ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:04:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You mean adding a watermark logo to my prints doesn't make me legit?
Little difference though. A photo is a photo. As long as you hold it right and can take good shots, then you don't need to know much. I've never really seen much greatness in professional photographer material.
I do a bit of photography but definitely not professionally, I just like taking photos. I see people think it's easy to start and think they can hit the ground running just because they have a DSLR. Actual photographers have an amazing attention to detail and a very creative mind. It is an extremely creative profession and I highly respect people who can do it properly as their job and their passion.
Yeah, I have two friends that are outstanding at photography and then I just have one friend that is super loaded and has an expensive camera and made an fb page because he thinks he's a good photographer. He even does wedding photos, but his pictures suck.
gayscout ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:43:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I go to a technical school that has a pretty decent photography program. I'm not a photography major, but it still bothers me when people treat it like any amateur can pick up photography and produce professional grade photos. I've seen these people walk around bragging about their photos to photography majors who are paying $40k/year to learn how to actually be professionals. I just feel like that would be degrading.
God I LOVE taking photos and have a ton of equipment and I'm not too bad at photoshop BUT it's not something I claim to do professionally. I just enjoy it and it frustrates me so much that people (especially my parents) keep telling me that I should be a professional, but for me that takes the joy out of it and I know I most definitely do not have the current skill for that. I shoot what I want to shoot when I want to, no deadlines or what have you. I mean occasionally I've done cheap headshots for people I know but that's also because money is tight. I know that if I were to ever do it professionally I'd need to learn a whole hell of a lot more, especially with the editing process and lighting techniques. The ability to own a camera does not automatically qualify you a photographer the same as owning a car does not make you a race car driver.
Same with videography and video editing. People wonder why hiring professionals is so expensive but there is so much that goes into it. Then they hire someone for a "great deal" and get a shitty product.
richmana ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:36:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I got an LG V10 a few weeks ago and I don't feel worthy of its camera.
As a professional photographer, this, so much this. The only time I try and convince people now is when repeat business is on the line, and then it's super easy. I just have them take their pictures first, and then I come in and take the picture directly after them. I've never had someone not hire me after that.
I know a bunch of 'professional photographers' and their stuff is terrible. One of them is taking lessons and trying to learn to get better, which is awesome, and the other thinks she'd God's gift to photography. I see their posts all over Facebook at they're terrible. A 1000 camera does not make you a photographer just as a set of fancy chefs knives does not make me a chef.
It's not just the "momtographers," for many years starting in the mid 90s I worked as a horse photographer. Then in the early 2000s heaps of dickwad argumentative men would just show up at shows where I was the official, having gone through the show management. Everyone was suddenly a horse photographer, despite lack of both horse and photography knowledge. I decided I had enough and went back to school and switched to graphic design.
But my husband does it for a living, and we still laugh about how weird it is. He scouts locations for film/commercials, and I can't tell you how many times he's scouted beautiful mountain parks. I'm so jealous.
I just spent all day today prepping him for an "overnight" - he's gonna go camping in the desert (Joshua Tree) to take specific night time jutting rocks images. It's like, people would do this for fun but he gets paid for it. I know I wish I could go!
A couple of times he's scouted abandoned stuff, really scary because he's alone. I like the reddit threads about abandoned buildings but it really is scary - but he gets paid!
It's not creative, but you do have to be good at capturing what the production is looking for.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:49:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As the son of a professional photographer and someone who pursues photography as a hobby this shit drives me up the fucking wall.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:02:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wedding cinematographer here. Can confirm/hard as hell.
"That's a great photo! You must have a really good camera."
You don't tell Jimi Hendrix he makes great music cuz he has a great guitar. Not comparing myself to Hendrix but you get the point. Everything takes practice.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:20:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
On the other hand, photography has become much easier since digital cameras came along and darkrooms became obsolete
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:58:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I thought that only my photog friends and I were the bitter ones but I stand corrected!
Managing a portrait studio (worst example of course) for a few years I heard so many people tell me things like, "Psh, I could take that photo with my cell phone." And "This has got to be such an easy job to just take pictures all day." Like, excuse me? There's so much work that goes behind each and every one of my sessions. Hours of planning, shooting, editing, printing etc. It takes so much more than a high end camera to be a professional photographer!
Not only that but I also have to be relatable, funny, sensitive to body issues, considerate of boundaries, good with kids, unique, creative, excited and treat every single mother fucker I meet like they're royalty to get as much money out of them as possible. Even when they're complaining left and right about everything from wrinkles to lighting, knowing damn well they're "technically" wrong.
Being a photographer takes patience; whether you're photographing kids or wild animals.
Being a photographer takes passion; after all you have to be able to recognize beauty in everything you see.
Being a photographer takes technical skill; you must be able to operate your camera under any conditions and work through various obstacles that may come up.
That's the only thing that keeps me going to be honest; I know I'm the real deal. I know this is the career for me and no matter how much bullshit has come along with the rise in wannabes, I'm sticking with it. Eventually true talent will overcome these filters! At least that what I'm going to keep telling myself because I'm doing what I love!
That's like telling a chef he cooked a good meal because he has a nice stove.
imperi0 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:22:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wedding photographer, here. Fucking tell me about. So tired of losing out on jobs because Jane over there got bored being a SAHM so she bought a camera from Wal-Mart and stumbled upon Picnik and now charges $50 for an entire wedding package. But I guess that's also on the people who actually think it's a good idea to hire those types...
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:22:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I definitely agree. People who get a DSLR and just take up close pictures of flowers on Instagram and say they are a photographer are a tad obnoxious. In the same vein, when people call me a "professional photographer" (I'm only moderately experienced) it really makes me cringe and I'm always quick to correct them.
[deleted] ยท 2165 points ยท Posted at 12:27:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted] ยท 385 points ยท Posted at 14:34:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hey, I KNOW I'm a danger to everyone I come across! I deliberately turned down a job an hour away because I was scared I would kill myself and someone else if I drove that much.
She got fed up with paperwork she didn't understand and so she just starting signing and agreeing to anything put in front of her and giving them anything they asked for, including credit card number. She realized later that all of that paper turned out to be the deed for a new house since they knew she would pay for it without question.
quenishi ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:21:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My brain sometimes turns down jobs on my behalf by refusing to work during interviews, especially if there's a bad vibe... does that count? :P
I get you with that one. I did an interview for an internship where one of the things that they wanted to do was to program a simplified version of chatzy.
I'm not sure but for me it wasn't even possible to purposely turn down a job. Office Depot was hiring me but I got a better job so I went in and told the general manager what happened. He called me back 2 days later asking if I'd be coming in for my shift that morning at 7...
Korlus ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:38:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You should get better at driving if you genuinely think you are going to kill somebody (or yourself) if you do it often enough.
If you plan on continuing to drive for the rest of your life, eventually it is going to happen. Often local police forces run things like advanced driving courses and similar. It's worth looking into.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:45:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, it's not like I don't know how to in theory, or I don't get enough practice. I just have pretty terrible awareness of my surroundings and response time. I don't know how to fix that.
Being aware of your limitations is better than not being aware. If you're in a situation where you need good peripherals and response time (e.g. changing lanes at the last minute to avoid getting stuck behind someone turning), at least you won't expect yourself to do something quick and rash. I have seen plenty of drivers who obviously don't know that they're not aware of their surroundings.
But I mean, I really feel that way - I've driven for 10 years, almost every day, often professionally, never even bumped or scraped anything, and I just can't get over how nonchalant people are about moving tons of metal within a meter of someone else doing the same, fuckers need to pay more attention. Except me. I'm fine.
You know, I really do a lot to try and 'traffic bust'...
I leave a car and a half length in front of me so I don't constantly 'break-tap' when people ahead of me do (the biggest non-damage contributor to congestion).
I merge early.
I don't merge just to get a car length ahead.
I don't use the shoulder as an extra lane to get in front of everyone else at the light.
I keep a look out for motorcycles.
I usually don't go more than 5 or 6 above the limit unless passing or merging.
And yet.
And Yet.
Everyone is 'Oh no you aren't IN traffic, you ARE traffic lololol!'.
So, literally, my efforts only amount to me getting to work later than someone who wouldn't otherwise. Because it only works if at least 10% of us on the road do it. Which apparently there isn't.
If I hear that phrase one more time I am going to give up bothering to be a conscientious driver, because apparently we don't exist and I'm tired of being late to work because I drive rationally.
rchaseio ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:31:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's how I drive. I always try to drive with no impact on others. Kinda the golden rule. I cherish smoothness. Minimum use of brakes, no surprises to other drivers. Look far ahead and plan for the next mile, not the hundred feet in front of you. Pay attention.
I drive like this in heavy traffic. I didn't always, I used to be the guy who jumps from lane to lane trying to get one more car length ahead of everybody else. Then one day I had an epiphany and realized that heavy traffic is just a multiple packs of cars squished together and that the only thing to do was go with the flow. The energy expenditure of overtaking the car ahead of me to gain only one car length of relative distance is not worth it, nor is the wear on my brakes from having to absorb that energy once I overtake that car and have to slow down behind the next one. Normally, I tend to drive with a heavy foot, but when traffic gets heavy I ease off and go with the flow.
If you meet the occasional idiot on the road, then you met the occasional idiot on the road. If all the drivers you meet are idiots, then you're the idiot.
I would say at any given moment, 5-10% of the people on the road are idiots. The people who are idiots right now may not be idiots later.
I'd say I'm that idiot ~5% of the time, and I absolutely realize I make stupid choices while driving. on occasion.
Jizzicle ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:42:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
-George Carlin
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:02:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am a month old driver and I definitely know I am an idiot behind the wheel until I practice more and more and get better at it eventually. Accepting yourself and being a cautious idiot yields better results than being a bold idiot.
Vomath ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:06:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I accept that while I strive to drive the best I can, taking into account those other things on the road, people have varying moods and philosophies on driving style and its hard for us to meld at times.
Although I still think I'm pretty good. Its just that most people are. Driving is fucking easy.
Mirgo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:29:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I legitimately am not an idiot when I drive.
I leave early most of the time to avoid traffic/not be in a rush
I never drive more than ~5mph over the speed limit at any time, no more than ~10 mph in some cases.
Always courteous to other drivers; if they signal that they want to get into your lane ahead of you, don't speed up and block them in like an asshole
Signal every time you turn or change a lane
Don't leave a ridiculous amount of space between your car and the guy ahead of you when in heavy traffic. This shit causes traffic jams. Two car lengths maximum, and only when moving
For fucks sake, please get off your phone when driving. You are literally driving a two or three ton metal box filled with gallons of explosive flammable liquid at high speeds, often only inches from other drivers. Please act like you what you're doing is only somewhat dangerous and don't assume that other people are going to avoid your dumb ass. Also, I am not amused when I have to honk at you to go at a green light because you're on your phone.
On that last point by the way, even though it is an unpopular opinion, I genuinely believe that people using their phones while driving should be punished as if someone 21+ were driving under the influence.
Anyone driving faster than me is a maniac, and anyone driving slower than me is an idiot.
cp5184 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:53:01 on January 29, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone going faster than me is an idiot. Everyone going slower than me is an asshole.
tviolet ยท 334 points ยท Posted at 16:40:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Related: traffic engineering. Everyone knows exactly what they would do if they were in charge. Just sync up all the lights, it's easy right? Well, what about the intersecting streets? What if there are a lot of pedestrians and it's a huge ass intersection that take forever to get across. And there's a really heavy left turn volume but only WB to NB and so it doesn't make sense to run the opposing movement at the same time and the lefts conflict with the heavy right turn volume? And maybe there's not even room to have a dedicated left turn bay so you have to run a split phase so the left turners don't totally back things up. And the constraint is the completely fucked up interstate that is so backed up that even if you hit all greens, traffic on the local street still wouldn't be moving because there's nowhere to go. But, yeah, we could just sync up all the lights, it's easy.
[deleted] ยท 49 points ยท Posted at 18:33:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you have data on people per minute for each way someone could cross the intersection, then make a cycle that gives each way its percentage of time corresponding to its percentage of traffic I feel like it would not be that hard lol
You would be surprised, doing the calculations by hand can get pretty complicated, and it goes up as the intersection has more conflict points.
Source: am civil engineer
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:11:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That works for a single intersection in which cars cross instantaneously, have infinite road to back into, and can only perform one action per traffic signal. Now, what if the volume's high going one way at 9, high going another way at noon, and the main street shuts down for a market every Thursday routing all traffic through
Except its not a constant flow, and the traffic lights are all part of a system. The difference between peak and middle of the night is huge, you have space restrictions, you have seasonal demands, and changing the smallest timing affects every light in the area, who have their own demands to work on.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 23:04:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
To be fair, they sometimes are. Just because the engineers designed a road for a given speed, doesn't mean that speed will be the limit, or even correspond consistently to the limit. Also, a lot of speed limits are set for a huge region with no regard for individual road conditions.
On top of which, most traffic engineering issues are extremely hamstrung by budgetary constraints and local politics. They likely know perfectly well what a whole variety of solutions are to various problems, but the city government won't assign the funding to actually fix the problems, and NIMBYs are complaining about everything that ever changes in their neighborhood.
bgon42r ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 18:14:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I get what you're saying, but to be fair it's not like the inherent difficulty of the problem is the only factor at play here.
It's also:
Not paying/hiring enough traffic engineers for your system
Not maintaining sensors/infrastructure/networks sufficiently
Not doing the correct traffic planning studies for new development
Bugs/simple human error
So I think it's still fair to complain about the traffic engineering in your city. But you are right about how many people think that it's way simpler than it really is.
tviolet ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 00:33:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well, yeah, I just mentioned the math, everything you mentioned is a component of traffic engineering as well. Unlike other engineerign fields, the political and "human psychology" aspect is huge. It all goes into why it isn't as easy as it some people think.
Is there any smart traffic light technology available. Like self governing traffic lights that work together to increase traffic/pedestrian flow instead of timed lights?
quenishi ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:29:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Yes - some of the lights around where I live have flexible timings. There are a few lights in the nearby cities that will turn red if the junction gets fouled up. One in particular is pretty noticeable as it frequently only lets a couple of cars through if it's jammed up.
Another town that I used to work in has part-time signals. Works fine, makes things quicker during the day, and ensures the roundabout isn't a nightmare during the evening. Just gotta watch out for idiots if you arrive and they turn on (though they do go amber then red when they turn on, but if someone tries to "jump" the lights, they may get surprised by the cars already on it).
Most of the lights around where I live will ordinarily only change if there's traffic around. One of the big roundabouts around here, when it's busy, the light sequence is as such it doesn't get totally fouled up (which it would without them).
Yes there are. There are control systems governed by a system of cameras capable of identifying individual cars, that measures flow not just at a light but approaching a light. They all communicate with one another and can optimize for overall flow and economy while having per-intersection minimum responsiveness settings (e.g. "nobody can sit at this light for more than 60 seconds").
All while having an installation cost of roughly 10% of normal in-asphalt coil sensors, because they don't have to dig up the road to install them. And also, the one I saw demonstrated was built by four college kids for a graduation project, tested in a moderate-sized town in Pennsylvania. I don't know if it would hold up to true city volume without further engineering, but it definitely worked.
Meanwhile here in Delaware, we have lights that you sit at with no cross traffic...that turn green as soon as cross traffic starts approaching them.
They sort of do that now. We've started installing giant magnets under the road to see where the traffic is. Problem is, this is expensive and we can only realistically install 1 or 2 per incoming lane. And then a dynamic traffic system has to do a lot with not a lot of information
There are, but the technology is relatively new and you have to lay lot of infrastructure to make it work. They are becoming popular on more trafficked corridors because of the additional capacity that the flexibility provides.
Cities: Skylines sounds like the game you're looking for. I've sunken hours and hours and hours into that game trying to perfect intersections and then fixing all the new problems my "solutions" created. Granted, it's extremely fun, but suuuper heavy on the traffic engineering aspect.
I've never said sync up lights. But maybe taking the exits of 2 lanes of NB interstate, 2 lanes of SB interstate and making it turn into 1 lane onto another interstate where this second interstate has an exit immediately where you're dumping all this traffic you're going to cause massive amounts of congestion
tviolet ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:38:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not denying there are some bad decisions but there are usually a crap ton of other factors that went into the decisions. Maybe the plan was to widen the off ramp but the local community NIMBY'd it. Or there were Right Of Way constraints like a historic church or something that prevented it. Or they discovered a buried oil tank which created a superfund situation. Or the budget was only enough to get the mainlanes and the decision was made to at least do that knowing the adjoining highway would still be a problem.
There is a shoulder wide enough to add an additional lane. The problem is it dumps this exchange traffic onto this second highway maybe 300 feet from the off ramp so it creates a bad merging/exiting situation. No church this is in a lower level type so nothing like that. Not industrial area, this is in Texas. I doubt it's anything but idiots to be honest.
Kazath ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:26:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
See, this is where I knew all that time playing cities: skylines with traffic control mods would come in handy!
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:59:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For anyone who wants to try a spot of traffic engineering get Cities Skylines (and the mods Traffic Manager and Traffic ++) and build a dense urban center.
joeinfro ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:55:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Skylines is a traffic simulator. The house and neighborhood building is almost completely secondary.
faaaks ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:04:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I agree that it's not simple at all, but I have spotted some very simple mistakes that should easily be corrected.
For instance, there is a 5 way stoplight right near me, after midnight there is almost no one there. It can take a few minutes for the light to switch to the next one. Why couldn't the engineers simply adjust the lights to change more often late at night?
But yeah, complicated road networks are a classic example of constrained optimization. A problem that should really be solved using neural nets.
tviolet ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:42:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Could be older technology that's difficult to change. Might be because they are synced up with lights upstream and if you change the timing you throw everything off. Or maybe there was a horrific crash there at one point that killed a bunch of teenaged nuns so they've been told to never set those lights to flash. You should contact your local municipality or DOT and ask 'em; maybe they just haven't gotten any complaints and hadn't thought of it. Most Transportation Depts I know of are stretched thin and too busy putting out fires to have enough time to proactively look for stuff to tweak if no one's complained.
Traffic engineering like sorta like software engineering. Except that every line of code cost 1 million at least, you must edit directly in Production environment, and with each line you add, the program still needs to run effectively.
I would eliminate all traffic signals. Let the free market dictate who lives and who dies.
lumixel ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:27:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I literally think I could do this; it was my 2nd choice after ME. But I can't do it without the 3ish years of specialized classes and didn't live near enough to a school which offered it, so I'll be working in auto crash testing instead.
tviolet ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:39:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly, if you could fine a way in, you probably could. Traffic engineering is not insanely technical; if you're already an engineer and understand how manuals work, you can pick it up. It's more knowing all the factors that go into decisions which include law and politics. I was actually a structural engineer originally and one of my co-workers was a ME who got involved in bicycle advocacy and just got his civil PE.
lumixel ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:56:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That might be my backup plan if crash testing doesn't work out. (Accepted a position yesterday.) Traffic sounds really challenging and tedious and fun.
I've wondered for a long time how they do sync up lights on some roads for the exact reasons you listed. That being said while not perfect I have driven on many roads that if you drive at a certain speed you will get mostly green lights.
In my current city it really seems worse than many other areas I have driven. I swear some major roads you hit 70% red lights.
This. Im a civil engineer / project manager directing a 200MM commercial development. If only I had a penny for every "expert" that offered me "tips"...
Tratix ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:10:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nah bro, have you seen my Cities: Skylines traffic flow?
Sometimes I wonder if engineers considered human nature in their planning for large projects. For example, there is a highway interchange where if you take a particular exit/onramp you have no distance to accelerate and nobody will let you merge. I always wondered why everybody was such an asshole at that particular spot until one day I was driving down that particular stretch of highway and became one of those assholes. The problem starts a few miles back where drivers gradually lose one right lane, and then another shortly after that. You lose one more lane at the interchange and then suddenly you're all bunched up in the rightmost lane, travelling at highway speed, frustrated with the other drivers and then here comes one more driver from the onramp to the right and who the fuck does this person think he is?
PA they tend to change lanes spontaneously and without signaling, but to be fair that is most of PA. Its just scarier when an 18 wheeler to the right of you starts pulling into the lane. Also, at intersections they just kind of go, and assume nobody will hit them. The traffic light near the local highway on ramp has a crash every other week.
Also, at intersections they just kind of go, and assume nobody will hit them.
I've lived in PA and experienced, at least in southeast PA, exactly how well people understand how 4-way stops work. That is to say, not at all. Most of the time they all just sit there with nobody moving.
I would prefer that. I have almost gotten hit at a 4-way more then a few times. People just guess at when their supposed to go, assuming they stop in the first place.
The reason truckers just go is because signaling and waiting to get into the next lane takes forever, and we miss our exits. Everyone has this mentality that it's the worst thing since the Holocaust to get stuck behind a semi, so everyone keeps driving by instead of letting them in. Like you said, you see a huge semi moving, you stay out of the way. We count on that in crazy traffic. To this day, there is a trucker stuck in the middle lane of a loop with his blinker still on, circling, circling, circling....
Thats fair, and if I see a truck trying to merge I will change into the other lane. The problem is when Im in the left lane already, and a truck merges on top of me without signaling or checking their blind spot. Maybe it would be more fair to the profession to say that some truck drivers are asshats, some are completely fine. Which basically just describes the human race.
Well my best mate is a "precision driver". Works around 45 hours a week driving. It's normally at race tracks doing driver experience ( those presents were you get to drive a lambo for and hour, he shows you how to drive) then he also tests drives new cars on ice tracks in the winter and he also get hired to drive cars for adds.
but in seriousness, he's probably talking about drifting rather than racing. If you drove on the roads like a formula 1 driver, it wouldn't be THAT bad. High grip, constantly driving in a pack of like, 15 other cars all going super fast with inches between them...
kaenneth ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:45:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
One takes much more skill; they both drive 500 miles, but only one of them has to turn to the right.
Maoman1 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 21:46:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There's a big difference between racing and nascar.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:13:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Maoman1 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:05:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ugh ffs. I should have known this would happen.
I didn't say it was easy I said it was different. I know nascar is difficult and requires a lot skill but you can't reasonably argue it's not a significantly simplified version of racing designed to allow the crowd to watch all the action. It's racing that panders to the audience. It's still racing and is still difficult but other forms of racing with real tracks are significantly more difficult.
/u/kaenneth implied that trucking takes more skill because nascar only "has to turn to the right," while /u/SmartAlec105 was referring to racing and trucking. All I meant was since nascar is already more difficult than trucking, real racing, which is significantly more difficult than nascar, doesn't even come close to trucking.
Asshats need to slow down with the downvote.
kaenneth ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:29:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Guys, it was a joke, chill out.
[deleted] ยท 105 points ยท Posted at 13:27:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's the morons who try to drive like professional drivers whilst they're on the streets who are the problem
mreniac ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:52:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I hear ya. All those accidents caused by people thinking they can text/play with radio/do makeup/read the newspaper like a professional are the problem.
I took a winter driving class and there was a saying... I don't remember exactly, but it was something like, "Anyone can drive fast... Smart drivers know when not to." Makes a lot of sense, really.
Seems to vary wildly. I've had maybe two bad experiences with truckers; they generally seem to have their shit together pretty well. Cabbies, on the other hand, are a bunch of idiot fuckwits who daily exemplify all the worst behaviour on the road.
Nieros ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:51:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
there's a difference between being a good driver, and being good at driving.
Well, I wouldn't say I was confusing them. Professional racing drivers are still professional drivers. But I did only consider racing drivers and not any other kind of professional driver, and in that regard I was wrong. As has already been pointed out by many.
MpVpRb ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:09:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Controlling a motorcycle at high speed
I once tried motorcycle road racing, and took classes at several top riding schools. The instructors told us that most fatal crashes are caused by young guys buying a fast bike and not having any idea whatsoever how to control it at high speed. High speed riding is counter-intuitive. Inexperienced riders do just about everything wrong
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:10:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh definitely. I had a bike for a little bit and it was the perfect starter bike: cbr 250. Looked sporty and fast but with a nuetral (closer to being like a bicycle in terms of posture rather than the classic sport bike posture) riding position and a very forgiving clutch. I miss my little Quin, she was a great bike.
As a driver for UPS. I agree. No one in Oregon knows how to coast, they just hit the brake as soon as they see brake lights. Never mind looking ahead of your vehicle two or three cars at least(try to look twelve seconds out), to see if those people are breaking. If you can't see that far, you're too close to the car in front of you. Keep a proper following distance, etc. People cannot drive, it's not a right and I think the tests should be harder and required retesting every ten years or something stupid like that. It would keep the dumbasses with no situational awareness from driving and probably help cities organize better public transport. I have to use my horn so much because people fail to check their blind spots, signal before turning OR switching lanes. That shit can kill someone at highway speeds or even on a road should the hit you into a pedestrian or oncoming traffic. Hugely unpopular opinion probably. But if you can't keep up with semis in a new car in the rain and semis have to pass you, you shouldn't be driving.
kaenneth ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:47:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think the difference is that some people think they are perfect drivers and everybody else is bad, but some people understand that they aren't perfect and are actively trying to improve and stay focused.
We've all had a close call where we knew we weren't paying well enough attention and avoided something, smart people will put down the phone, slow down and make an effort to improve, everybody else just blames the other idiot driver for the close call
The whole attitude of "This complete fucking idiot cut me off on my way to work today! Could have killed somebody! Learn to drive moron!" just pisses me off. It's like, trust me, you make mistakes also.
Brio_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:14:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
All professionals make mistakes in their careers. That doesn't mean they can't do their job. Sometimes making mistakes doesn't make you a bad driver.
Im pretty bad, but in the past 2 days alone, Ive witnessed:
1) Someone makes a left out of a gas station onto oncoming traffic and then make another left onto oncoming traffic. I guess it saved him some time
2) Somone makes a turn going down the wrong way on a one way road. Then did a 3-turn using the sidewalk to go back the right way.
3) I was stopped at a light with a big no right turn on red sign, im waiting to turn right. Guy passes me on the shoulder with one wheel on the sidewalk since their wasnt enough room. Then turns right anyways. Luckily the pedestrians waited for him to do his business.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:56:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
In MN I add any car with a license plate beginning in 'W' to that list. I'm convinced 90% of those people were already bad drivers when they got popped for driving under the influence.
I think something like a tenth of a percent of the drivers in Memphis are the worst in the world. The rest of us are actually the world's greatest as we have to learn to avoid them and the potholes.
6Red ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:45:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's funny, most people think that they could be a NASCAR driver pretty easily.
"It's just turning left, how hard can it be?"
Ok, but what makes you think that you turn left faster than everyone else?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:08:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When cycling, I'm most afraid of profession drivers since most of them make frequent stops without looking or signaling. Buses and taxis cut across bike lanes with no turn signals all the time and it's really dangerous. The average driver is also bad, but they don't cut across my lane as often.
0j0s ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:29:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know, it seems pretty easy to know the rules and stick by them. It's what good drivers do most of the time. It may take me three manoeuvres to parallel park, but I will always stop for pedestrians to cross the street.
notLOL ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:51:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Professional driver? It's easy to make a living off it. Millions of people aren't dieing when they drive. You misread the question.
Driver's ed classes need to emphasize that you're not given a driver's license because you know all there is about driving, you get a license because you've learned the bare minimum there is to know about driving.
smayper ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:56:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There should be classifications of drivers. When you take your driving test you should get a grade that would put you in a class. For example: A-class drivers would be allowed to drive 15+mph over the speed limit, and D-class drivers aren't allowed to drive at night, or when it is raining. There would also be specific rules regarding poor weather conditions. A-class drivers get to commute from 6-8am, and B class drivers from 8-10 etc. You have to disclose your driving class on job applications so employers know when they can expect you to arrive at work during a blizzard. Just saying.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:49:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In the snow today person in front of me was going a little too fast. Bend in the road comes up, well he keeps doing straight instead of turning and came 2 feet from taking out a gas station pump.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:52:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've had the same car for long enough that I know exactly how big it is and how it handles. So in my own car I can do all sorts of creative maneuvers but I also know what my car is simply unable to do. Give me a different car and I'm the safest driver you'll meet since I don't know the limits of the car.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:59:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Have driven for part of my income for a decade. Can confirm, most people are a wide spectrum of horrid drivers.
Came here to say this. Was driving since I was 16. Took a driving course at a speedway at 45 and learned more in that 8 hour period than I had in the 29 years of driving.
If I had my way I would change the legal driving age to 18.
Same thing with riding a bicycle. Most people think it's super easy, or think they can get on a bike and ride without any training. Quite often, though, this either instills bad behaviors that feels safe but isn't (e.g. wrong-way riding, sidewalk riding), and they have no bike-handling skills to avoid most common non-car-bike crashes.
I've been bike-commuting for about three years now, and car free for the last five, so I considered myself pretty knowledgeable, but taking an intensive three-part Cyclingsavvy course last summer taught me more than I thought it would. We had a classroom session with excellent graphics showing the way traffic works according to rules of motion, and some of the best practices, then a parking-lot drill session where we learned emergency handling maneuvers, then an on-road ride that put everything together while slowly building riders' confidences.
The same thing applies to motorcycles as well; incidentally, the CyclingSavvy program is based on Motorcycle Safety Foundation courses.
tibsalot ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:53:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If no one can drive, everyone can drive! ...Right?
Well, I stop at stop signs, I don't go more than 10% the speed limit and I always put my blinkers on. Never been in an accident. I think I'm doing a pretty good job.
I can drive fairly well. Now only if I could simultaneously drive for all of the stupid motherfuckers in the cars around me. I've only ever been in a single accident and I didn't cause it.
DIY, specifically carpentry. Everybody looks at a table and says "yeah, all I need is a saw and a drill to build that, woud save me a fortune. Easy!" - if it were that easy, it wouldn't cost ยฃ350.
Exactly. Did that table cost the company $20 to make, probably. But you are not paying for the cost of material or even labor. You are paying for their skill and ability to make a useful table.
Plato was the one who said that items and things that man created are symbols or extensions of the "ideal" thing. A table is a representation of what we believe to be the "God-Table", or an extension of "tableness".
"To make our difficulties plain, let us concentrate attention on the table. To the eye it is oblong, brown and shiny, to the touch it is smooth and cool and hard; when I tap it, it gives out a wooden sound. Any one else who sees and feels and hears the table will agree with this description, so that it might seem as if no difficulty would arise; but as soon as we try to be more precise our troubles begin. Although I believe that the table is 'really' of the same colour all over, the parts that reflect the light look much brighter than the other parts, and some parts look white because of reflected light. I know that, if I move, the parts that reflect the light will be different, so that the apparent distribution of colours on the table will change. It follows that if several people are looking at the table at the same moment, no two of them will see exactly the same distribution of colours, because no two can see it from exactly the same point of view, and any change in the point of view makes some change in the way the light is reflected." - Bertrand Russell in Problems of Philosophy
"A commodity appears, at first sight, a very trivial thing, and easily understood. Its analysis shows that it is, in reality, a very queer thing, abounding in metaphysical subtleties and theological niceties. So far as it is a value in use, there is nothing mysterious about it, whether we consider it from the point of view that by its properties it is capable of satisfying human wants, or from the point that those properties are the product of human labour. It is as clear as noon-day, that man, by his industry, changes the forms of the materials furnished by Nature, in such a way as to make them useful to him. The form of wood, for instance, is altered, by making a table out of it. Yet, for all that, the table continues to be that common, every-day thing, wood. But, so soon as it steps forth as a commodity, it is changed into something transcendent. It not only stands with its feet on the ground, but, in relation to all other commodities, it stands on its head, and evolves out of its wooden brain grotesque ideas, far more wonderful than โtable-turningโ ever was." - Karl Marx - Das Kapital.
Also it only cost them $20 to make because they buy supplies by the truckload. Economies of scale make it hard to DIY a lot of things for cheaper than buying them
Tubaka ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:09:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Are you implying that I cannot make my own dentist grade toothbrushes for under 50 cents?
trinlayk ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:48:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
additionally with low waste, due to knowing what they are doing as professionals....
vs DIY first timer, guessing at what to do, and ruining materials.
And they have power tools! Those table saws are so cool and cut through wood so neat and smoothly like a scissor cuts through paper. They also cost around the same as a used car.
And it cost them an initial tens of thousands of dollars investment to get to that point.
Mittee1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:27:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hell yes. I just got into sewing some clothes for myself, thinking it'd save some money. I spent $40 on material to make a skirt from a pattern that cost $10, and I'm not even that happy with it!
Yeah, I have enough skill to make a reasonable bookshelf, or I can buy one for 1/4th the price at Ikea. Mine would be of higher quality, but I couldn't even make a cheaper one, even if I sacrificed quality. Volume makes all the difference.
Also, wood is a lot more expensive than people think. Unless you mill and dry it yourself, but that adds a lot of time and equipment cost, and we're back to why wood is expensive.
Fosheze ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 18:38:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not to mention every DIY carpenter wants to buy cheap shitty lumber. My sister recently got into selling crafty stuff and decided she wanted to make a toy box. So she went out and bought some fucking Menard's 2x4s and asked me for help. If you are going to make something you need to buy good dry lumber from an actual lumber yard not some cheap shitty boards from Menard's which are so warped you could use them as a corkscrew and so wet they practically sweat.
TRextacy ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 19:36:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You mean to tell me all this oak is going to cost more than construction grade pine from home depot?!
waffles ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:07:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've had so many people dig through a unit of spruce studs to find perfect looking pieces.
It's one thing if you're only getting a few. But when you're trying to find 20 that will be in your wall and week never be seen but are the most perfect pieces you've ever laid eyes on? That's when we have a problem.
I thought about trying woodworking as a hobby. Then I looked into how expensive wood is, and I started to think, hmm, maybe I should take up a cheaper hobby, like racing cars.
equipment cost is a big factor. you want to build that table? alright but you need $200,000 for the machines first. if it's just a single project, you pay other people to do it since they already have the equipment. we've got some machines that are half a million plus and of course that affects the product's price
waffles ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:05:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I do sales at a lumber yard. When people see prices I get some great reactions.
Lowe's and Home Depot have cheap wood. But they're getting shit.
Nobody understands wood grades, or what you use each grade for. #2 is wet treated and knotty and could have bark. You use it for framing and other stuff where you won't see it. #1 is kiln dried and still has knots.
Want clear wood? Buy clear. But you can bet your ass that you're paying for it. They're not throwing a clear piece in with the #2.
I have been woodworking for ~3 years. Cost me $1k to get a decent setup (a lot from craigslist or gifts). I can now make "that table," but holy shit it took me forever to get there. My cuts still aren't perfect, so you will get a table that is okay, but not great.
Oh, and fuck that reclaimed wood noise. Don't mark shit up for wood you got for free. I can see 100+yo barn wood marked up; but pallets, seriously?! /rant
Labor is a huge part of it but it's just the beginning.
A: wood is more expensive than you think. A decent hardwood table could easily be $500 in just wood or more if it's something exotic.
B: it takes a ton of tools to make something like that. Even with hand tools, if you want good results you're spending $275 on a hand plane, and you need at least 3 or 4 kinds. And that's not even counting fasteners, glues, finishes, etc.
D: if you want a real eye opener, look at how long it takes to make a chair. A dining room table might take the same amount of time as one or two chairs, but you can't charge much for a chair and you need 8 or even 12.
You're probably paying for the retail space and marketing. If you go to an out of the way town where Amish or other small craftsmen have their own shops, you'll find top quality hardwood furniture for a fraction the price of stapled together junk from Ethan Allen type yuppie furniture stores.
kcdwayne ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:02:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And tools! To make a nice table, you need things like routers, a lathe, sandpaper, stain, sealer, hardware (screws, brackets, etc)..
A decent lathe alone will cost you more than a couple of tables.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:23:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Im really lucky, because i got into woodworking when i was younger, and so when i was 10 my parents got a second hand lathe, and then for christmas most years id usually get another tool. Saved me a ton of money.
MpVpRb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:12:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You are paying for their skill and ability to make a useful table
And, in the case of manufactured furniture, expensive machinery, jigs and fixtures
I get that a lot as a lawyer. The senior partners especially often receive complaints like "I paid you $10,000 for eight hours of work?" Their response is "no, you paid $10,000 for 25 years of expertise."
As an engineering student, everything you buy, use, look at, is made available from engineers. Doing one table with your hands sure man. Try to do a table, that needs to follow very specific needs. While also making sure that it can be produced by a very specific set of machines. And you cant' just say that the table needs to be 20 cm wide, it needs to have a tolerance. And the list goes on, your twentydollar table is made possible from hundreds of thousands of dollars
DrAnon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:08:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I use this argument when people tell me doctors, esp surgeons are overpaid. It takes a decade to learn what I do. You are compensating me for the entire decade, my twenties (arguably the best decade), and also so that I don't cut the wrong shit out of your body. 'Cause if everybody could do it.....
ba203 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:22:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I worked out how much it would cost to build a coffee table and it was $150, decided to go buy one instead. Timber is expensive and that was just the cheap pine
Except for IKEA, you're paying for the frustrating experience that is on part with monopoly
fx32 ยท 183 points ยท Posted at 13:26:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
With furniture carpentry, you can give it a fair try though. Make a table, it might be ugly, but you can eat from it. Worst case scenario, chop it up and burn it in a fireplace.
Don't try things like constructional (load bearing) carpentry, plumbing, roofing or electrical work without some oversight from a professional though.
I was thinking: how difficult could it be to make a bathroom... Watched a dozen videos, looked perfect in the end... but the source of that tiny leak dripping into the living room was impossible to find.
Basically, if it could seriously fuck up your day, get someone who knows how to not fuck up your day to do it.
[deleted] ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 15:44:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:41:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:07:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Two staples? That seems like something simple to fix. Just hit them into the wall some more with a hammer, and cover up the holes with spackling paste, and paint over it. You don't need any new drywall.
Having done electrical work for as long as I have, I just get the master electrician to check my work when I'm done. Not having to pay a middleman saves so much money. Of course, I started working with the stuff back in 1995, but it's a little different on aircraft than in a house.
I built a bookshelf in college and a bench. My dad freaked out when I told him I bought a circular saw to cut the wood so I returned it and bought a hand saw. That bench was strong but wobbly, lol
I think people are irrationally afraid of DIY work, especially in 2015, the days of youtube.
It won't be as good as a pro would have done, but you accomplished something, learned something, and saved enough money to cover the 30% of times when you fuck up.
People seem to think it's just cutting boards to length and then nailing them together for home repair. There is A LOT to figure out during remodeling. And every one of those things that needs to be done has 10 different ways to do it. You also need to know which order to do the steps or you could seriously mess up the entire project. As a guy that has done mostly remodeling, I have a love/hate relationship with people that try to remodel on their own. I love it, because you're going to end up calling one of us and we will have to also charge you to undo what you did. I hate it, because usually what you did makes no sense and now I have to work much harder than was necessary.
If you know what you're doing then you can of course save money. Unfortunately most people don't know what they're doing and end up costing themselves more money and/or causing more damage. Also, unless you're selling your home or dealing with the structural integrity, chances are code issues won't arise. And if they are brought up, it's probably something that will be immediately harmful to you or your family and that should definitely be addressed.
You only see the fuckups though, not all the people that manage to do it successfully, saving on high labor costs, and learning something in the process.
The other thing is that a lot of carpenters suck ass, as I'm sure you know. Hiring one isn't a guarantee of quality or cost effectiveness. Lots of homeowners have horror stories involving incompetent and/or malicious contractors.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:17:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You only see the fuckups though, not all the people that manage to do it successfully, saving on high labor costs, and learning something in the process.
That was my thought. I've seen my parents do significant remodeling to their house (including finishing their basement by hand). There are a couple things that you should probably call a professional about (structure, electricity), but a lot of it comes down to doing your research.
You guys are both absolutely right. There are definitely people out there capable of doing home repairs. But most people aren't, and those are the ones that get themselves in trouble.
As for only seeing the fuckups? I'm not only a carpenter, but I'm also a person. I see plenty of people doing these things are their own. I get phone calls asking for little pieces of advice or pictures of finished projects. The fact of the matter is that for every person that is capable of doing their own repairs, there are many that aren't.
You generally don't if you hire someone either, they just have to do their work up to code.
evoltap ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:23:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Although I agree that many codes are a pain in the ass, I have seen way too many sketchy electrical situations that were "fine for 50 years". If you have a wall open, fix that shit. Also, every year people die because a deck wasn't built to code. Codes are part of living in civilization.
But codes can often go a little too far... I recently had to cut in a second crawl access because there was one plumbing clean-out more than 20 feet from the original - two fucking crawl accesses in a 1600sf house - it's a complete joke
Right? I mean, who cares if the owner before me does a shoddy electrical job and my house burns down with my family inside.
Towno ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:29:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
On the flip side, there's people like me. I inherited the family home when my father died. I'll spare you the probate lawyer and homestead vs. non-homestead property tax details that matter in my state, but the bottom line is that I'm struggling to pay my electric bill next month. I care about my family's safety, and I suppose in theory I could sell this old husk of a house for half of what someone would flip it for and buy a new house somewhere really far away from our schools and jobs, but hey, I'm just a sentimental idiot.
I doubt your flippancy was intended to be actually insulting, and I'd hazard that if you were actually face to face with a person struggling to build a better life for their family, you would be so gauche. If you have your shit together, I am really, really happy for you, and that is awesome dude. I'm not plugging for stupidity or laziness here, but there's a whole world of complications out there that become rapidly unfathomable, and unfortunately, sometimes despite all your care and hard work, you still have to spend some time treading water.
Edit: If you were blaming the previous owner's shoddy electical work for burning your family in a house you purchased after the fact, I apologize. I didn't read your post properly, and didn't realize you were saying that the burden of verifying the safety of a house's electric is on the head of the seller. Where I come from, you research what you're buying.
That way you know in advance when to prepare for wet feet.
How would one research if there are no permits? That's why we have building codes and licensed contractors.
Towno ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:39:58 on January 27, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't disagree that building codes and licensed contractors exist with good cause, and that ideally, all houses should be held to these codes.
Generally speaking, when you go to buy a home, you inspect it--often by hiring a home inspector. Some mortgage banks, banks, realtors, sellers, buyers, etc. require a home inspection to finalize the contract between home seller and home buyer; some don't. Regardless of requirements, though, it's sort of like buying a carton of eggs. Before you buy them, you have the option of opening the box and checking to ensure none of the eggs are cracked. If you do this before you buy them, it's the grocer's problem. If you wait until after you pay and get them home, it's now your problem.
As a home buyer, you have to option of demanding the seller cover the cost of a home inspection prior to finalizing the sale, but traditionally the cost of the inspection is included in the cost of the buyer's closing costs. (I can't find a reliable statistics regarding precisely how traditionally the cost falls on the buyer, but I can get you some sources that agree with me if you like, and would be open to seeing any evidence to the contrary.)
I cannot imagine a world in which someone would offer to buy my home without first asking to have in inspected--and if by some bizarre twist of fate I decided to consider it--I would be horrified and immediately explain with great enthusiasm and vivid imagery why that was an absolutely appalling idea.
But not everyone is like that, and I imagine there's plenty of folks out there who'd be perfectly willing to part with a carton of busted eggs.
If I could reliably identify contractors that were going to make things better and not worse, I would never DIY again. I have identified one contractor who's reliable and reasonably priced (i.e. He doesn't want $6k to tile a shower- I'm good with $2k), but he has a waiting list of literally 6 months.
If anyone has any hints I'm all ears, but until I get some more good guys it's smarter for me to watch YouTube videos and give it a try than to try to hire someone decent.
If someone has a waiting list, either get on it or ask for a recommendation. If you don't want to wait, a good contractor will pass the work on to one of their buddies who also does good work.
You don't get a good reputation and a wait list by sending people to businesses that do sub par work.
Another large point to your list of great points is the tools you have acquired. Sure you can get away with a lot of cuts just using a skill saw. But you can't get a top quality straight long cut without a good quality table saw. And in any business one can rack up tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment.
Aken42 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:47:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Unfortunately this does not just apply to DIY'ers. As a GC it is incredible the amount of work we have to fix that was done incorrectly by previous contractors.
Right? Everything is easy until you run into an issue. That's why it takes so many hours to be considered a master of your trade because only at that point have you seen enough fucked up things to be able to work around them.
My uncle was a cabinetmaker\carpenter. He had a few different pricing tiers. He had his normal price, a 5% surcharge for "I tried to do it myself first", a 15% "I'm taking the week off work to help you so this will go faster" charge, Or alternatively, a 5% "here's the keys, I'm taking the family to the cottage for two weeks so nobody will change their mind" discount.
MrFarly ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:39:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
thats one of my favorite things about working in construction. its a lot of the same tasks but theres a different challenge every site so its never boring and mundane tasks. its always interesting.
Xpdcion ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:25:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hahaha! This comment is so true! I just recently commented on his post about DIY stuff and I said the exact same thing :)
had to tail a team at a factory once, sitting around for hours, get bored. wood and tools around, i build a chair. not a great chair, just a chair i can sit on with decent comfort.
people start falling over themselves about how its so amazing, he built a chair. not sure why. i say look, i'm not a carpenter, this is a really shitty chair, chill out guys
so they think i'm trying to be humble to fish for complements, really start laying it on, oh,
you're a master woodworker, don't be so modest
i start to lose my cool, get a bit frustrated, look guys it's not sanded, no edges, the joints are crap, its just some nails and wood. they're winding me up and im getting frustrated as ive been there for hours. i mean, i was bored enough to make a chair from scratch...
fucking jesus of nazareth here, best chair ever. so humble
so i say to the guy sitting on it who kind of leading the teasing, ok, so if you're so confident, get up, stand on it, jump up and land on it
he does without thinking and the chair is completely destroyed, lands nasty on concrete floor, thankfully he brakes no bones but he was pretty injured
Don't worry, I would have told you that your chair was a piece of shit.
Really though, chairs are some of the hardest things to make out of wood. A beautiful chair that also has structural longevity AND is comfortable to sit in is quite a feat.
I never realized until I was working with a bunch of life-long woodworkers and one of them said he was building a new dining room table but was "definitely just going to buy chairs."
Me: Why wouldn't you just make them since you already have all this wood and the tools?
.
Him: ...Well... it would take about 10 times as long and is about 10 times as complicated. A dining room table is an easy project, a chair is a job for a real master.
Yeah, I've seen firsthand how hard it is to remodel a room. My dad redid our kitchen by himself and it took almost a year, but it came out really well. However, after it started it took months before it was even close to how good it was before, which wasn't very good in the first place.
I was taught how to do things when I was growing up by my dad and grandfathers. That being said (and this isn't limited to carpentry) I think I have learned more about how things are done properly by messing stuff up and having to go back an fix it. I do projects myself because I enjoy doing it and learning new skills not necessarily to save money. I have on a few occasions paid to have a professional assess my mess and instruct me on how to properly fix it.
You just described my life. The worst jobs are when the customer calls you after they messed everything up. "Why does it cost this much? I already did half of the work!" No you just fucked up your entire basement. I'm just trying to fix what you destroyed.
bjsy92 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:30:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wish I could be good at this stuff and build a table.
I feel like you could replace the wood terms with computer data lease systems and it would be exactly what I would say to my clients when they ask why it's so difficult to do an implementation.
Anyone who thinks carpentry is easy hasn't seen the equation to figure out the number and slope of stairs. Shit looks like it was found on the Roswell crash...
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:34:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Building from scratch isn't as difficult as remodeling. It's fairly straightforward and as long as you're somewhat handy and willing to take all the time to check codes, you can do a reasonably decent job. But make sure you get all those codes correct, or your municipality can come in and make you remove the entire project.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:48:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's when there is no building code when real skill comes in. With exact steps laid out (for example, IKEA furniture) any idiot can follow them without having any prior knowledge. Building an IKEA table, for example, with exact steps written is not too hard. But it's when someone says, "build me a table" and throws you some tools and wood where know-how, experience, and instinct matter. You have to actually understand what you're doing and why youre doing it, and how to undo it if something goes wrong. You need to know all your options, not just the one laid out before you. You need to have an intimate relationship with all your tools, and an extensive understanding of the material your working with to "freestyle" it, which is what most private carpenters are doing.
Disclaimer: I'm not a carpenter; my father is, which is the only reason I know anything about this kind of stuff. He loves what he does and can be a bit pretentious.
Somefive ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:55:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For larger scale projects, in my province, there's quite a bit of building code regulations.
It doesn't take many tools to make decent stuff horribly cheap. I decided that I didn't want to spend thousands of dollars on furniture and started making it in my apartment with a handsaw and two power drills. I haven't done the finishing for most - too cold to go outside right now. Here's a couple progress pics during the build
It's really not hard to get things 'good enough' considering the price.
I have plans for a coffee table that fits in the middle-center of the media center that rolls out. Minus the TV the thing will cost <$50 +/- the wheels
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:10:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I do a bit of woodworking but it's crap. I enjoy it and having a solid, actual object out of it at the end is amazing, and being able to see and feel just how much I've improved since I started is really encouraging, but I know it's not anything close to professional or the work of even the average amateur. My grandmother recently saw a jewellery box I'd been working on and told me 'you work wood just like my [great-grand]father.' He was a professional cabinet maker. Unfortunately, he was also a terrible professional cabinet maker and ended a long line of cabinet making in the family, so this was not a compliment, although I think she meant me to take it as one.
mbpboy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:24:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you. When ever someone I know says this I don't even try to explain to them the process of painting, gluing, sanding, varnishing, annual oiling depending on wood, staining, and making sure it actually can support weight. Making a good table could take weeks
tomdarch ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:19:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Architect here: On one level, I love seeing DIY remodeling. It's great that "regular folks" can put in the effort and get attractive results.
But moisture management and insulation in exterior walls is a bitch. If you're in San Diego where there's little outdoor temperature variation, fine. But a large portion of the US population live in the North East and Northern Great Lakes/Midwest where it gets cold in the winter. Codes require insulation, but when you combine cold, dry conditions outside with normal humidity inside and a layer of insulation, all sorts of bad stuff can happen as that interior humidity is "driven" to the exterior and condenses in the wall. "Vapor barrier on the warm side" is a good start, but there are exceptions. I'm hopeful that we'll get better information out there to help DIYers, but in the mean time, there's a lot of wincing and cringing at what sort of problems are being buried in walls all over that no normal home inspector can find...
Exactly. IIRC, there was this guy who renovated an empty garage to a living space. It looked really good, but there was this one thing. He left his walls just bare brick. Like outside - 9 cm brick - inside. It was just mind boggling that he spend quite a lot of money on renovating and just not thinking practical. Not only will it be freezing in the winter, condensation will be a huge issue aswell.
He thought about insulating, but he'd rather have more space on the inside. He didn't care about the heating bill.
Redditor:"Nice. What type of climate? those bricks wall would get cold around here with no insulation."
OP: "That was definitely a consideration. DC winters can get cold. But I didn't want to lose the additional space from framing out and putting insulation and drywall over the bricks. I'll pay for the extra space and aesthetic appeal of exposed brick with increased electrical bills."
I've got a buddy who is excellent at this. It drives me crazy that he can do it, but it's super awesome. He'll look at a pile of wood and it'll practically cut and assemble itself. His tools are such a part of him he doesn't even have to try.
Me on the other hand, I fail when trying to cut a straight line with a pair of scissors.
Yes, woodworking as actually quite hard. Its much easier to jist watch someone else do it.
droans ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:33:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have no doubt that I would be bad at making furniture my first few times. I really want to try it though just because I feel that it's an experience every man should have at one point.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:50:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My dad is a woodworker and spends thousands of dollars on equipment. While he doesn't professionally woodwork, he spends most of his time in the shop he built behind our house.
As a person who made custom made PC chassis and server housings, this. People think that just because you found a DIY youtube video, you can simply do it. Is it easy? yes. But its easy to get perfection and repeatability. People dont realize how hard it is to work within tolerances. I have been using tools all my life(dad is very skilled) and after 6years of soldering was i able to solder quickly and evenly and properly everytime! Same with welding. Its hard to be consistent.
Brio_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:15:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
DIY has the benefit of you actually being able to follow instructions to the T.
Xpdcion ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:24:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
True. I tried making myself a computer table and I have the blueprint and everything and started building it from the scratch. I ended up making alot of mistake at first try such as doing "this" before "this" because "this" can't fit in "this" if you put "this" first. I ended up disassembling it and buying better materials and stuff. My second try and I still made mistakes until my third try. Don't get me wrong, my 3rd trial has full of new mistakes too but I referred my mistakes as experience. My 3rd table has few unrelated holes and eccentric cuts but I am proud. It's very sturdy and can be disassembled very easily!
Eh, I've done a lot of woodworking for fun when I was a teenager, and really did find it fairly easy and intuitive provided you have the proper tools (the tools make a huge difference if you don't have access to something).
But there's a huge difference between hobby projects and doing something for money. I probably spent more on wood alone than I would have for a similar nightstand/bed frame/etc at a store.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:07:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Yes! Id done some amatuer stuff. Anyways im a theatre major and i got hired to help build the set for our local opera, and i gained a whole new appreciation for cabinet makers. That shit has to be accurate within 1/32 of inch!
As a side note, 1/8th inch skin ply can go suck a termite infested dick.
I really don't want to sound like a one-upper here, but I think it's interesting when mention the accuracy of cabinetry. At my day job I'm a machinist, and I do woodworking as a hobby. 1/32 of an inch feels like a mile when you work to a thousandth of an inch or less all day (although wood has it's own challenges too, expansion and contraction across grain and such)
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:32:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Man, precision on that level just blows my mind in general.
trinlayk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:47:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fiber arts, "Yes, you might have the skills, but the materials cost $X00.00 and it take Y00 hours to make that big thing with a simple knit stitch... really I'd HAVE to charge $Z00.00 for my work, and if you were going to do it on your own, you'd spend $X00.00 on the materials and never get more than 1/4 through the project...."
The other side of that is, "make me one of these" with photo from catalogue, no offer of payment for time or materials.
One of my mates has taken up woodwork as a hobby, as he bought an "As seen on TV" drilling guide.
I don't have the heart to tell him his stuff looks like the pallets loosely screwed together that it is.
Although my dad was a woodwork teacher and is pretty skilled with that kind of thing, so I'm probably a harsher judge than otherwise.
Likewise painting. People think "oh, it can't be that hard. I just need son brushes, rollers and tape." Then I get a call to come clean up their mess because it looks like a bunch of kindergartners went wild though their house.
Rhueh ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:00:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm with you on furniture building. But DIY in general? No. Most DIY jobs are quite straightforward, and the more you do them the more true that becomes. These days, any esoteric information you might need is probably just a few clicks away.
If you approach it as a hobby, it can be great fun. You won't save any money but you can certainly build nice things if you work at it.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:42:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, there are some people who are really good at it, but not professionals
stfm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:50:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I make things like cabinets and tables. It is actually cheap and pretty easy but you have to spend a lot of time researching and a lot of time in labour especially when you only have basic tools.
I made a table with a friend, from start to finish. Helped him scavenge the lumber.
That was beyond difficult, and the table looked like crap. No screws or nails, we attached the legs by whittling holes in the top and pegs on the legs and forcing the top down. The stupid thing was level, at least, but not particularly pretty. Took us two solid days of work to build the thing, which was pretty quick, but like I said: it was a basic, ugly table that only barely served the purpose it was built for.
A friend of mine is like this and it infuriates me.
The classic example is the expanding round table that was all over the internet a few years ago.
I showed him that and he rather fippantly responded, "yeah that's not too hard to make."
I was like "wat?", and his response was "All you have to do is build it accurately."
So "build it" and "accurately" the two hard parts, summed up in one sentence.
The best part? If I start telling him that there's value in time-honoured experience rather than just reading up on woodwork, and expecting to be able to build something like that, he takes it as a personal insult.
It's got to the point where I just smile and nod if something like that comes up. Trying to argue it with him just makes my brain start to boil.
I once hired a carpenter with 20 years experience to do a simple build and it still came out wrong. He did his best. Stuff is not easy.
myles89 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:07:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cabinate maker here. When you see a mass produced table for โฌ350 and think it's easy. Most of the time I can't buy the material for that table for โฌ350
A lot of the time it is that easy, the inflated costs are because it has to be profitable for someone to make a living making nothing but tables + all the overhead of machinery & such.
People that DIY in a proper space also don't realize how much overhead they are incurring while doing it themselves. "Wow, only 20$" > -but you built up wear on 6 saw blades, 3 motors, a vaccuum cleaner, made 8 trips to the store for stuff you forgot in your car (gas$), don't have insurance if you screw up and lop off a finger, etc etc-
I enjoy very slowly making nice simple things.
SteveJEO ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 15:00:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Heh.
My uncle is a grand master carpenter...
Yeah... no.
It's cost you around ยฃ1500.
[deleted] ยท 1965 points ยท Posted at 14:48:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Judging from reddit? Being a lawyer. So many redditors think they are super attorneys because they had a high school civics class or watched a video on why not to talk to the police. It isn't the simple in the real world.
TV also plays a role here. 99.99%+ of the legal profession occurs outside the courtroom. You can't just circumvent procedural rules by giving a rousing speech about justice.
Probably an extreme example, but when litigating the worst case of my career, the pro se (representing himself) guy on the other side cited to the pledge of allegiance. That is, the pledge of allegiance promises justice "for all" and if the court denied his "motion," then there wouldn't be justice for him, therefore the motion should be granted. The underlying motion itself was similarly incoherent. How do you even start to argue against that kind of logic?
... so naturally the judge gave him leave to amend and set another hearing date.
So, I'm a lawyer and nobody else in my family has anything to do with anything in the legal field. Also my family is a fair amount of crazy. So this might sort of affect the kind of crap that they say.
Anyway, I can't tell you how many times there have been popular cases or lawsuits or what have you where I've had to explain something super basic to my family and they still don't get it.
For example, when the Casey Anthony trial was going on, my mom was so mad that they did not convict her of murder. When I explained the fact that the investigation and then subsequently the states case against her was really really shitty, she just said that juries should somehow know that despite all the instructions they are given they should still do "the right thing"
The jury should do the right thing according to the law, not their wacky beliefs
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 19:06:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Well, she could be disagreeing with you about the morality of civil disobedience and vigilante justice, not just being thick. Sounds like the opposite of jury nullification.
Hopeful lawyer here. (I'm still working on my undergrad) It can be good too for example jim crow era laws could be nullified by nonracist jurors, but thats a whole other can of "what ifs" and "coulds"
Also I could easily not know what I'm talking about as I have stated earlier I haven't completed my undergrad.
[deleted] ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 22:31:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
and theoretically a law could be nullified if Jurors chose not to enforce it. I'm pretty sure (again I have only casually read over laws like REALLY NOT IN ANY CASE TO GIVE ADVICE) jurors have the right to just say "not guilty" if they disagree with the law. Its never happened before and if a juror shows any knowledge or plan to do so a judge can eliminate them but still is a theory.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 22:56:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Its never happened before and if a juror shows any knowledge or plan to do so a judge can eliminate them but still is a theory.
FYI, it has happened many, many times in the past, notably during the Jim Crow era, but unfortunately not as a way for non-racist jurors to nullify racist laws. What actually happened was that all-white juries simply refused to convict (or even indict) white defendants accused of crimes against a black victim. Some basic info on it here.
(In case you find it interesting, keep reading; I'm a nerd for this stuff.) Note especially the link to Emmett Till's lynching, for which the confessed killers were acquitted by an all-white jury. Ironically, the brutality of the murder and the subsequent acquittal brought national attention, and many people consider that incident to be the official beginning of the civil rights movement. Rosa Parks herself said that she was thinking of Emmett Till when she refused to move to the back of the bus, thus starting the year-long Montgomery bus boycott that eventually forced city lawmakers to outlaw segregated seating on buses (officially, anyway).
In the immediate aftermath of the bus desegregation, Klansmen bombed five black churches in the area, plus one white church whose leader had supported the boycott. They were arrested for the bombings but promptly acquitted by an all-white jury, despite having confessed to the crimes. (One of the bombers also confessed that he and three of the others had carried out the lynching of Willie Edwards, though they were never even indicted for that murder.)
During all this, Medgar Evers earned his stripes as a leader and organizer, and he would remain a prominent figure in the civil rights movement until his assassination in 1963. His murderer, Byron de la Beckwith, was tried twice for the murder the following year, but both ended in mistrials due to hung (all-white) juries. Of course, subsequent investigation revealed that both trials were crooked as shit. Beckwith would later serve time for a (thwarted) plot to murder a Jewish leader in New Orleans, but for the most part he was free for thirty years, until in 1994 he was again brought to trial and finally convicted--by a mixed-race jury--for Evers' murder.
As Longfellow said, "Though the mills of God grind slowly, yet they grind exceeding small; Though with patience He stands waiting, with exactness grinds He all."
Pro tip. Most jurisdictions will slap you down if you hold yourself out as an expert in the law and give advice without a licence. Avoid doing it.
I agree with you (though I'm also in undergrad, not a lawyer), but when did he do this? He explicitly said he isn't a lawyer, didn't make much of a legal assertion, and then reiterated that he isn't a lawyer.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:46:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
/u/fuckbigots5 's comments came no where close to arising to the level of conduct where a state bar disciplinary or admissions committee would consider this the unauthorized practice of law. And no admissions committee would consider off the cuff legal opinions of a layman unauthorized practice of law even where that layman went on to later apply to law school.
Murgie ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:22:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Casey Anthony trial
That's all you had to say. You could have condensed the entire comment down into those three words, and everybody would immediately known what you were talking about.
I'm sure you have plenty of people looking for your expert opinion to reassert their feelings of injustice on the Steven Avery trial (Making a Murderer.)
peppers_ ยท 294 points ยท Posted at 16:47:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You can't just circumvent procedural rules by giving a rousing speech about justice.
I love that show, in large part because it displays how ridiculous TV lawyering really is. Not that what Fred Savage does is an accurate depiction of what a real lawyer does, but I love the way the show just laughs at the idea of a TV lawyer being able to just jump into real cases.
You can't just circumvent procedural rules by giving a rousing speech about justice
Or just break laws and get away with it.
I was watching How to get away with murder, and in the first episode the defense attorney presented an illegally obtained document in court, and when called out on it, got the judge to say it was admissible because it was relevant.
Yes, I'm aware. So presenting that evidence in the first place was already ethically dubious. But a judge couldn't say that illegally obtained evidence is admissible.
From what I've heard other self professed lawyers on reddit say, even bringing up illegally obtained evidence is grounds for a mistrial. There are some things that a jury just can't unhear.
That's what I've always believed. And they were trying to show her (the defense attorney) in the show to be some amazing attorney because she figured out a way to allow the evidence to be used... smh. No, she just blew the entire fucking thing. And in the first 5 minutes of the show they had her (she's also a law professor!) say "I'm going to teach you guys how to be real lawyers. We're going to be working in the courtroom in this class" (or some bullshit like that). Bitch, 99% of lawyers' work happens outside of the courtroom. The fuck you talking about?
Another TV show ruined because its stupidly unrealistic. Maybe I'm just overthinking it though.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:53:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You have preliminary hearings/evidentiary hearings where the judge will decide what is admissible. The jury isn't there for that.
I'm not from the USA, and USA criminal law is pretty fucked up sometimes so it wouldn't suprise me if a judge could do that. The side which the evidence is used against has to object though, before the judge will declare the evidence inadmissable, especially in the USA were the judge is passive.
No. The other side must have an opportunity to review the document first. That's why we have discovery.
kaaz54 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:36:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not to mention that you can't have surprise witnesses. Both sides have the right to prepare for the witness list, and having random people just being witnesses would be a major dent in any semblance of fair trials.
Yes, it could. Most of the people commenting below are looking at it from the wrong side. The illegality of how the evidence is procured is a due process and unconstitutional search and seizure issues. Who has these rights? The accused, not the prosecution.
If the prosecution were proffering this evidence up, and it was obtained through means that violated these rights, then yes. A timely objection could be made and the judge would rule the evidence to be inadmissible. (See Fruit from the the Poisonous Tree.) Unless, the prosecution can show that there is an exception to its inadmissibility. These exceptions would be (1) it was found from an independent source, (2) it would have been inevitably discovered despite the tainted source, (3) the chain of causation from the illegal action to the tainted evidence was so far removed that it was unlikely that the illegal action resulted in the procurement of the evidence, or (4) the good faith exception for government agents. Then the defense could make an objection on the relevancy if it got to the point (See below for that analysis.) But this is only for the prosecution proffering the evidence.
Now, let's look at the defense proffering the evidence. There's no objection that can be made about the illegal seizure of the evidence. There's no objection that can be made about violation of due process. So now the prosecution has the only objection of relevancy. Evidence is admissible if it's relevant. So, how do we tell what's relevant or not? It's a balancing test. Relevancy for the courts is whether the probative value of the evidence outweighs the danger of unfair prejudice, confusing the issues, misleading the jury, undue delay, wasting time, or needlessly presenting cumulative evidence. So, what is unfair prejudice then? That's typically when the evidence presented would tend to make the jury reach a decision on an emotional basis, rather than a factual one.
And if you didn't think it could get any more tricky, here comes surprise! The modern trend is that suprise is not a numerated danger anymore. That just means it's not listed in the rules anymore. It does not mean that the judge can not take it into consideration. But you have to look at that in the context of the evidence, how it's presented, and what kind of trial it is. I'm going to leave Civil trials out of this, so we'll analyze it for a criminal trial. If it's something earth shattering that the state brings up, the judge is going to be very critical of it. Why, because the are the one's bringing this case before the court and they owe that due process right to the accused remember? Here, the judge could rule that it's inadmissible because of surprise, however depending on the circumstances, he could allow it in or give a continuance. Merely allowing it in will probably happen a lot less because the defense WILL move for a mistrial and will appeal a denial of that motion. Now, let's look at the defense side. Surprise evidence! The prosecution objects but as to what? They don't have a strong due process argument to make. So, they most likely make a judicial economy argument (gotta keep the wheels of justice moving) and that the defense is a cottonheaded ninny muggins for not giving them that evidence. Depending on how big the surprise is the judge will most likely let it in or let it in after a continuance. Why? Because the prosecution will not likely ask for a mistrial because of judicial economy (a trial is expensive and time consuming) and this time is probably their best chance at winning since older cases make worse trials for the prosecution.
Okay, so let's wrap this altogether then. Defense proffers surprise evidence. Prosecution objects. They don't have due process or illegal search and seizure so they go for surprise. So, they go for relevance and say it's too dangerous because of the ways listed above. The judge weighs the probative value and the danger and finds it's more probative than dangerous because it's a criminal trial and it tends to show the Defendant's innocence. So, we have relevant evidence and because relevant evidence is admissible, the evidence can be proffered.
That is the analysis that actually went down. Show gloss over those nuances but that's how it typically works. There some more rules but that gives you the gist of it.
Now, having said that. That doesn't mean that illegally obtained evidence gets a free ride. Why? Because someone out there broke a law to get that information. That doesn't stop the prosecution from questioning it's authenticity (which is another way to get evidence thrown out, but that's another economy sized can of worms). So, the defense could potentially have to explain how this evidence was obtained and then charges could be brought against whoever committed the crime and the lawyer could be found to have breached the rules of professional conduct and be subjected to criminal court and censures from their bar.
TLDR: Defense can probably get away with it. Prosecution probably can't. However, Defense could get in trouble other ways.
I'm about to finish season one and I'm only watching it cause of all the beautiful people (Dean Thomas, the Gryffindor is in it) and its a pretty good drama. If I can learn a thing or two about the law, why not?
I'll break my own rule about assuming I know anything about law. Probably admissible because it's not a due process violation when the defense does it.
That said a retired lawyer told me in theory law has theory. Really law has precedence. With theory you can say, based on these principals and logic, blah blah blah. Reality. 'Based on what we usually do in the case, blah blah blah' So you should be really cautious unless you have detailed experience with the area in question.
[deleted] ยท 42 points ยท Posted at 16:49:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My favorite was a plaintiff declaring before the court that the gold fringe of the court's flag meant that the Bankruptcy court she was in was international in jurisdiction and was governed by maritime law and thus she had to be judged not as a person, but as a vessel.
She declared herself a boat.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 22:10:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Her case included a claim against her creditors, her trustee, the bailiff of the court and the judge and included a demand for damages, on top of forgiveness of her debt, in the amount of $10,000,000 a piece.
Her bankruptcy was dismissed and she was barred from filing for a year and a day. I've followed up on her unofficially and she has proceeded to continue to file each year. Each time she draws the same judge, goes through the same motions, and when the judge realizes who she is, her bankruptcy gets dismissed again.
...
......
.........you magnificent bastard, it took me this long into typing a response for me to realize what you wrote.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:22:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, there was no loophole. She was explicitly moving against the judge's orders and could have easily been found in contempt each time the judge deigned to notice that this same crazy woman was filing for bankruptcy. But what would that have done? Crazy met with logic is just going to plow forward on the crazy train. Fine her? She'll just throw it back into the pot and demand a million dollars compensation. In specie. (yeah, that was also part of her original demand)
Yeah, what is it with people who want to use Admiralty Law in crazy ways? I had a client who straight up told me that he wasn't subjected to the laws of our state or the U.S. because he had trademarked his name using Admiralty Law so that he was an independent citizen. I could not get him to understand that one, none of what he said made any sense in regards to Patent Law or Admiralty Law and that two EVEN, and a mean a big EVEN, if he could do that, he couldn't get the benefits of our state and federal laws and not be subjected to them.
Congratulations, you were exposed to one of the best examples of the "sovereign man" believers. They're entertaining once or twice, but they get old after while. Especially when you find out they'll do things like recording a bogus million dollar lien on attorneys' homes because they're crazy.
Oh, I collect these nutjobs in a folder that my Business would probably I rather not have record of - my official Crazies. Included is the man from Nevada who was absolutely certain that taking a letter we sent, turning it 45 degrees, signing his name across it, and sending it back would be a sufficient manner to pay off his debt.
He lost that case.
PaulTagg ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:31:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
...whats the rational behind that? I mean what did he thought that did?
the pledge of allegiance promises justice "for all" and if the court denied his "motion," then there wouldn't be justice for him, therefore the motion should be granted
No and even if it did, "justice for all" is vague enough that it would be impossible to rule on the nuts and bolts of the legal profession based on it. There is, for instance, no magic to there being x number of days to respond to a complaint-- it's just what seemed like a reasonable balance between giving the defendant enough time without dragging things out too much. Once x has been decided, though, then that in general is the rule that should be followed... again, not because there's any particular magic to x, but just because it prevents re-litigating basic issues every single case. The issue "pledge of allegiance" guy was arguing was a bit more arcane and involved timing of discovery, but it's in the same general category.
It is similar in that sense to traffic rules. There's no inherent magic to green meaning go and red meaning stop, but traffic is much easier if everybody observes those same conventions.
So, "justice for all, therefore I should be able to drive through a red light" is as coherent as "justice for all, I should win my procedural motion."
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:27:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
the pledge of allegiance promises justice "for all" and if the court denied his "motion," then there wouldn't be justice for him, therefore the motion should be granted
First semester of Law School, this is exactly what our lecturer told us. All my Boston Legal hopes and dreams, curse you James Spader you charismatic bastard!
buruzn09 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:22:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Those are the worst. I had a guy cite the King James Bible and the Magna Carta before going on to argue that he didn't meet the statutory definition of a "person." I was so dumbfounded I barely knew how to respond and it was just a bond argument.
guto8797 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:56:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ace attorney taught me that being a lawyer is all about getting to the crime scene before the cops and steal everything that isn't bolted down, and steal the stuff that is bolted down anyway
Attorney here. Pro pers are the most fun at the Demurrer stage, and complete nightmares any time after.
duckshoe2 ยท 143 points ยท Posted at 17:00:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not just Reddit. People watch a bad YouTube about the Constitution and suddenly have an expertise rivalling that of a defense lawyer with twenty years' experience. Then the job of representing them turns into a struggle to mitigate their bad decisions. The State is already trying to put you in jail, why are you helping?
4536b ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 22:50:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Some people still naively believe in things like justice and right and wrong.
While people inject these trite, ill-defined concepts into the discussion, they are never the real issue. Much more commonly, the defendant believes that if (for example) a statute requires the state to prove that the defendant acted "intentionally," they can't be convicted without a confession of that fact. Explain the difference between "direct" and "circumstantial" evidence until you are blue, but they know what stuff means, and you're just trying to get them to plead guilty because you're paid by the state, and what about the Uniform Commercial Code, huh? (A guy in jail told them it mattered and what am I going to do about it...) Self-destructive stupidity.
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 16:43:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:51:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
blivet ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:00:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I really wish the actual attorneys had some kind of flair, though. I'm not interested in what some random guy thinks OP ought to do unless either they have relevant real-world experience, or they're a fucking lawyer. Just having an opinion doesn't really cut it.
Attorney here. Currently defending a case against a Plaintiffs attorney who COPIED HIS COMPLAINT FROM A WEBSITE. The Plaintiff's attorney copied the complaint. My first demurrer won, and the judge gave him very specific instructions for a FAC. He didn't listen, and my second demurrer is coming up for hearing in a few weeks...
Undoubtedly it's his first class action and he's decided to go it alone. I used to do class action and saw this a few times. It was always a train wreck. Once a guy file to harass a company or get free stuff or something. What he didn't count on was that the judge took the rights of the class very seriously and wouldn't let him just drop the case when he realized that he had opened Pandora's box. That dude had to do hundreds more hours of work and in the end got no money for his efforts.
Self reps are the bane of my existence in litigation, but I can make bank correcting what they fuck up in solicitor-side work.
The irritating thing is that people assume lawyers are just well-dressed conmen who charge a king's ransom for a few sheets of paper or a speech clients could deliver themselves. Never mind the years of university and training to figure out the basic concepts or how to actually do these tasks. It's why the freemen and other OPCAs draw in the gullible and angry. I thank the lord every day that I haven't had to deal with them yet.
I actually don't think it's difficult to be a lawyer (and I've been a litigator for about eight years), but it does require a ton of accumulated knowledge and a dedication to really learning new material.
[deleted] ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 21:29:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a lawyer, too, and sometimes I feel like a fraud because of how easy it is. Then I will speak to a friend or family member, who is an intelligent, educated person, but who is not a lawyer, about a legal issue. Then I realize how much I do know and how much better I am than a non-lawyer at analyzing a situation from a legal perspective. I think because the process of becoming an experienced lawyer is so long and gradual you don't notice the changes taking place in yourself.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:36:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I'm going to law school next year and I hope this is the case. That's basically how my undergrad degree in philosophy was. It's not about what you argue, but how you argue it.
I agree. The individual parts of being a lawyer is not that difficult. But being able to put those pieces together to handle legal issues is the key. You get that with education and experience. Law School basically gives you the frame work of how to analyze a legal issue and how to use that frame work to litigate a matter. Actually doing the analyzing and litigating an issue is how you build that knowledge and can streamline through your experiences.
It frustrates me to no end when someone asks me, "can I do this" or "can they do that" about legal issues I've never sat down and took the time to work through. They have no clue at the amount of time it would take me to research and come up with a general opinion on that matter. And that's only if there are enough specific facts to the scenario. Then comes the "Well, so-and-so said or did this and this happened." Okay, great. Now what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
From what I've seen, most people think lawyers do some type of mental chess in their head and come up to the exact outcome of a case within minutes of hearing a basic set of facts. They definitely wouldn't be satisfied to know that the 5 minutes I just spent explaining the law was the extent of what I could remember from law school or the bar exam and was probably overly general and wouldn't help in the first place. Or that I would have to look up the applicable statutory law (sometimes actually using google) and actually read it to see what it says because I can't keep the language verbatim in my head at all times. Then pray that I had a book covering the applicable case law so that I didn't have to do a massive and expensive search on Westlaw or Lexis and then read and organize it to see where we're at currently with the law. And then, when you're done with all that work can you confidently say you don't know how trying that case is going to fair because you don't have all the discovery yet. But doing all that builds up your knowledge and that's something that the average person can't get.
An interesting google story: One time had a guy who was at my office as soon as I got there one morning. His son had been arrested and denied bond. It was the day before Thanksgiving and if he didn't get out he'd violate his custody order to have his kid on Thanksgiving. I had no clue why he was denied bond. I straight up had to google it. Turns out there was a cut out in the bond statute that specifically required consent from the solicitor for a magistrate judge to set bond for that particular crime. Now anybody could could have googled that and figured out the probably. But not anybody could call the solicitor (and get them to answer), get their consent, then call a magistrate judge (and again get them to answer), get the magistrate to agree to see their client that day, immediately get a transfer order, and have him out on a PR bond before lunch.
That's probably how it is with most fields. You don't think you have that much specialized knowledge, and it seems so easy to you. Then when you talk about your work with someone who doesn't work in your field, you find out just how far you've come in your education and how much you really know. For example, I see a lot of guys on reddit who just talk about how accounting is playing with Excel; even more prevalent is when IT people talk about how their job is mostly googling and telling people to reset the computer. They don't realize that while it seems easy to them because they do it every day, to the rest of us it's highly specialized knowledge that we weren't trained for so we can't possibly understand.
Whenever a police officer tries to stop you, all you have to do is say "I do not consent" and you can walk away free and clear.
carahbob ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:01:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a lawyer is hard, so it always irritates me when people say "I love to argue, I should be a lawyer." I'm not a lawyer at all, but I'm not sure that's how it exactly works, it seems much more complex than that. I want to study law, so people assume I love to argue, when in reality it isn't so. I just really love law for some reason, and I wanna learn as much as I can from it. What people see on tv is just that for the most part, tv.
I know exactly what you mean! A few people I know will often pull out the 'It's (should be) the law' argument to justify their rage at things as trivial as the exact positioning of garbage bins (to the millimetre), or arbitrary like the inclusions/reliability you can expect with tech purchases.
Gotcha. I'm a second semester 3L and I hear this shit all the time from people who are dead serious.
dpash ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:25:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can say for certain that they don't know what they're doing.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:29:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was watching How to get away with murder, and in the first episode the defense attorney presented an illegally obtained document in court, and when called out on it, got the judge to say it was admissible because it was relevant.
That shit wouldn't fly in real life, right?
The difference though is that lawyers have a good understanding of how a particular court works, because they probably represent clients in it all the time. They know which judges are good to pull and which ones they should refuse. They know the tactics and legal maneuvering the other side is going to pull.
I mean, a smart person could certainly probably make a really good legal case, do a good job calling witnesses, submitting evidence, making arguments, examining witnesses, et cetera, but unless they've been in court on many different similar cases, they are going to be blindsided by a ton of procedural motions that they won't be prepared to deal with, and they are not necessarily going to pull a judge that is sympathetic to them representing themselves and willing to give them leeway.
If you are going to represent yourself, at the very least, you need to retain a lawyer to help make sure you are doing all the paperwork and procedural stuff correctly.
Sablelyn ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:52:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
ProfLiar ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:30:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Every single time someone says the words "I'll see you in court!" or "I'll sue you!", I giggle.
First, no.....you probably won't. I won't be representing myself on anything, so unless I have to be there....nope. You wouldn't even see me in small claims court.
Court sucks, even if you are "being paid" to be there and it's technically your job.
If things actually go to trial, that usually means a lot more work/time in the office....because like being in other meetings I can't respond to emails and calls, so I get behind in the usual nonsense/office part of the job.
If you think jury duty is miserable, it could be worse.
akharon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:54:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
watched a video on why not to talk to the police.
What's funny is that you can have these videos, and people are convinced that "that is the law, period." There are common litigation cases where you can put 5 lawyers behind it and get 5 different arguments, outcomes, and opinions.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:07:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Objection your honor"
"On what grounds do you object?"
"You know, on the grounds of like, fuck the cops and stuff right?"
Vomath ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:07:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
AM I BEING DETAINED OR AM I FREE TO GO?!!
amolad ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:17:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I just came across this on Reddit. Some idiot was so sure he was right--throwing out legal terms he has no real idea of what they mean-- I had to stop him and ask him if was Steve Harvey.
That level of stupid.
r_301_f ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:48:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Are there really people who think being a lawyer is easy? 7 years of school (4 years bachelor 3 years law), then you have to pass a test famous for being hard as fuck, and only then are you qualified to start working...in one state
So true. Being a lawyer is also very unlike academic law - much of it is being able to compromise, not 'winning ' arguments by being aggressive and hostile.
My sister is an accomplished lawyer. I could never, ever get to her level. Mainly because I have the attention span of a dog and find reading somewhat of a chore.
Mirgo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:36:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, as someone who has self-represented before in court, you don't always need a lawyer. That's not to say I could do as good a job, just that I could do a good-enough job and I'm too poor to retain a lawyer most of the time.
Also they were small claims cases, so you can't even bring a lawyer, but I still appreciated their consultation.
myerrrs ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:01:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be honest, being a lawyer isn't hard. Literally everything you need to know is written down somewhere.
The hard part, and it's the same for a great many things, is dedicating the time and effort. That's something many people are very incapable of.
rylos ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:39:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know a fellow who's taught some kind of law / legal classes at the local university for a living. He thinks that he could take on any large corporation on about anything and win. We just doesn't get it, he teaches law, thos guys DO law. Real law. Every day, all day.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:50:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, law is needlessly complicated by tradition and older laws.
I think it's mostly just spreading basic rights when interacting with police officers. The rights, how they can be used, and purpose behind using them is pretty simple and a large majority of people are ignorant about it.
Brio_ ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:13:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I disagree. I don't think anyone really says "It would be easy to be a lawyer," it's just that they read a bit about something and think they understand the nuance of the law they're talking about.
Yup. People seem to think law is so easy, cause you know, it's all written down. Everyone is an expert, everyone gives advice.
You know what people? Law is one of the hardest things especially as an education, right up there with medicine and engineering.
Also, I hate the fact that people(in my country) think it's okay just to ask questions about juridical problems. It's not fucking free. The education is hard, the work is hard. I'm not giving you free advice just because in your opinon I can just tell you because "I know it anyway" and "It's not hard to just say something".
Also, people with bullshit degrees in sociology or fucking journalism or something thinking they are a fucking expert and arguing. You, yeah you. The guy who argues with me about the problems of the juridical system or about politics while you hold a high school diploma. Fuck you.
Specifically stand-up comedy. Often times people don't realize how much work a comedian has to put into a set to make it performance ready. A successful stand-up show isn't just a list of funny jokes, it is a vignette of carefully times stories and observations, placed so that the audience is kept entertained and captivated. A good comedian is just as good of a writer, as they are a story teller.
No one transitions into stand-up from acting. Stand-up comics can branch out into other fields but no one seems to successfully go the other way. That tells you how hard it is.
While I'm not his biggest fan, Ricky Gervais achieved success through standup, after acting/TV writing. Supposedly a lot of people don't like this, because he never "earned his stripes."
I feel like there are other people. Like the guy who played Ron Swanson. I don't think he was originally a stand up but he wound up having a Netflix special. But of course that was pretty terrible so it's not necessarily evidence of it going well. Just that it happens.
Yeah but doesn't stand up pay like nothing? I'm not saying it's not really difficult, but if you've already established your career in something else there's not much incentive to do stand up. If there were then you might see it more.
Ken Jeong somehow transitioned from being a doctor to a successful standup comic.
Shiftkgb ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:25:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah but my understanding was that open-mics and what not was something he already did, he just eventually blew up. It's not like he just tried it one night and was amazing.
Joel McHale is the only person I can think of who's done it successfully (which is the exception the proves the rule). From what I remember him saying on podcasts, he was an actor first, then got into hosting as well as acting, then into stand up on top of all that.
Loads of people have done it unsuccessfully. Dustin Diamond (Screech from Saved by the Bell) is the biggest example of this.
A few weeks ago on here, people acted like I was being dumb when I said comedians who do crowd work practice it, like a lot. People really don't understand that stand up comedy is a shit ton of work.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:05:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They must not watch it then, because I feel like a LOT of stand-up comedians talk about how hard it is and how many painful bombings you have to get to before you get one good night. Stand-up comedians voluntarily run the gauntlet every time they go to work, that really impresses me!
There are people that think stand-up is easy? That has to be one of the most difficult performance jobs to successfully make a living doing. Nowhere near as hard as Broadway, though.
Pfft, you just practice on twitter. That's how I practice, and now I'm hilarious. I mean, I haven't tried transitioning from twitter to stage yet, but I'm sure it'll be super-easy with all the online practice I've had.
Jabonex ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 14:46:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with you. Most of the comedians i've seen tell storie of their own life but with humors and they do very very well at this :)
Colopty ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:37:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Their stories are mostly fiction, though. Relatable fiction, but still fiction.
crl0114 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:04:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wouldnt say they were fiction but exaggerated versions of the story. Most stories stand ups tell have an element of truth to them.
Colopty ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:39:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Like I said, mostly fiction. Like 99% fiction or something. Comedians needs to come up with new material consistently, they can't just walk around for long enough for something scandalous to happen that they can then exaggerate. Take the salt and pepper diner story. Yes, he was probably at that diner once and yes there was a jukebox. He may or may not have gone with a friend. The playing of all those songs and the outrageous reactions though? Completely made up.
Or in the case of "the machine", he probably hasn't been in Russia or even taken a class. He may have read a news article about organized crime in Russia while eating his breakfast bagel and decided that he could make a funny story about how he befriended them.
Through actually meeting and talk to Bert, and from the countless people that I know that have worked with him, and the fact his entire reputation lies on it considering he has called others out for stealing his stories before (Jay Mohr).
Colopty ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:23:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is going to come off sounding like I'm being a dick, but I don't mean it that way. We met, we talked, he's nice, that was it. That's usually what happens with my celebrity interactions. I wish it was more interesting :(
Colopty ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:52:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That doesn't make you sound like a dick, it just means you're not very good at telling stories.
Or because I know "I met a guy, we exchanged pleasantries, small talk, and discussed a mutual friend then I left 15 minutes later because it was late" isn't an exciting story.
Wanna hear about that time I saw Neve Campbell in a coffee shop? I was behind her in line, she ordered a blueberry scone, I got a black coffee, then I went home. Real life is boring.
Colopty ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:34:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is reddit, make something up. And it better end with you two getting married and living happily ever after.
I'm an improv comedian, and it's really funny how everyone perceives improv as being crazy difficult. Honestly, it doesn't take much to be funny in improv, especially compared to stand-up. And yet, everyone sees improv as something they could never do, but stand-up as something totally within their grasp.
But as an improv artist, your job is easy for you, sure, because you probably have a gift for quick wit, and association of language, but for others, I could imagine stand-up being easier. Writers. People who's ideas develop over time. They are different skills, and a majority of people can't do either. Don't cut yourself short. Improve is really hard for a lot of people.
As a stand-up, I found improv was difficult for me because I had to learn to let go of control and let my scene partner(s) lead, because I'm so used to dictating the pace and where things go.
However, the more I looked at it like riffing bits in the parking lot of a gig with other comics, the easier it was.
And even the very best have to endure a lot of bad sets in order to come up with the polished one you saw on HBO. It's constant trial and error. The pain of jokes, or even an entire set falling flat is something few people could handle.
My one neighbor has been doing stand up for a few years now and she's gotten pretty awesome so far. The only problem is when she's talking to you now you don't know if she's telling you a real story or if she's testing out a joke on you.
She's always working. Even when she doesn't appear to be.
I'm a comedian, and that's one of the tougher things. If I'm being funny, people think it's material, but no...I'm just talking how I'd normally talk.
If conversation leads towards a topic I have in my act, I'll usually preface it with, "I have a joke about...,"
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:04:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think anyone underestimates the difficulty of that. If they do, they are foolish.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:18:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
See: Bill Burr
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:53:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It is beyond just being "funny". It's easy for a person to be funny in real life situations but with stand up you are all alone- you have to set yourself up for every joke and make the entire set seem to flow organically. That's what makes it so tough.
Actually, this is why Mitch Hedberg's stuff is utterly amazing. In no obvious way does his material involve telling stories, transition material, or any of that other stuff. And yet, his stuff was pure genius.
When I took the stand up class at Caroline's Comedy Club in NYC, one of the attendees asked if there were any good books to read on the subject. The instructor gave one recommendation, Stephen King's On Writing, a book that has nothing and everything to do with stand up comedy.
My wife and I were at a stand up comedy club on amateur night. She dared me to go try it. I told her "you first". it was brutal. She bombed so bad. I did a little better, but it was just a story about my sister using a taser and knife to hunt deer. Worked OK, mostly cause its true. I can't imagine trying to do it for a living. I only have so many stories.
that shit's hard. Especially, if you're not a big name and people will laugh, no matter on how good your jokes are. Had only 2 occasions in a local community (1. time ca. 50, 2. time around 250 people) and the feeling when a joke doesn't crack as you'd imangine it is just aweful.
Really? I mean, there are a ton of great stand-up comedians in my town. Just go to the Dead Crow on Fridays and you can see them perform for free. Too bad the crowd always sucks and doesn't laugh at any of their jokes, though.
Actually when I asked a group of friend what would be the hardest job to pull off professionally this is an answer a few of them came up with, it's not something a lot of people say 'when I grow up I'm going to be a comedian'. Even if you try to hard to be funny it quite often backfires and creates silence.
When I'm being a little bitch about something that bothers me, people often tell me I should do stand-up. Apparently I complain in a funny way. When I try to be intentionally funny, though... you can hear the grass grow.
And even when you're good at it, it's still not going to be a viable career for most people. You don't go from open mic nights to late night talk shows overnight, even if you are absolutely hilarious. There's a lot of legwork finding places to be funny at before you get known, and even then you might never hit a position where you can live off of stand up.
Tell that to actors and port stars. They all seem to keep trying and failing at it. I think the stupid people of the world often think it's an easy profession, that's why there's so many hecklers.
Funny enough, for as long as I can remember it's all I've ever wanted to be. I've done quite a few tough jobs, security, military commercial fishing, minor bit of logging and now I'm off to paramedic now.
me_is_mo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:16:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's true. I tried to make joke with a customer the other day and she told me I should stop being so negative. Not everybody has that natural timing
I agree. I love thinking that I can do stand up comedy because I make all my friends laugh. However I then think about how I suck at presenting and basically freeze. This thought causes me to have a whole new level of respect for stand up comics.
My friends tell me all the time I should do stand up. I'm only funny in conversation when I can play off other people and push their buttons. Stand up is way beyond my ability.
I've been told that many times as well, I know I wouldn't be good. My humor is off the top of my head, based off what other friends say. Very quick with the witty jokes. But, stand up is so tough. Kudos to all stand up comedians
Rhueh ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:02:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Totally with you on that. A friend from school tried to become a stand up comic. I was at a comedy club one night when he stunk the place out. They even turned out the stage lights on him. I felt so bad for him. That has to be one of the most difficult careers to get into, psychologically.
I don't know if people realize how much work it must take to create a routine, and tell jokes. Most of the time in real life, people just tell jokes they've heard from some other source, but comedians have to come up with their own gimmicks. That must take a lot.
A place by ours opened and started an open mic comedy night and I was like "yeah fuck it, i'll give it a go. It's free, it's five minutes, and if ifuck up I just don't go back."
Started to write everything down and I thought it was hilarious. Then I read back through it and just died.
I know full well i can be funny.It's easy to adjust on the fly to how different people react and make them laugh. It's the only reason people talk to me. But trying to work any of that down into any semblance of a routine? Jesus fucking christ it's hard. It's been like a year and I've got an introduction. "hi."
So true. Comedy is the rarest, most difficult thing to get right in a script or play. Then getting it into a genuine performance adds another impossible hurdle.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:44:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Its so weird that if you ask anyone, they'll tell you teachers don't get paid enough, but when it comes time to pay them, no one wants to cough up the money
Edit: Ya'll hate teachers, huh?
Aken42 ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 16:45:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That doesn't just apply to teachers. Everyone wants to get paid more but thinks everything is too expensive. Unfortunately those two ideas cannot coexist.
gal5tom ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 18:44:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone hates teachers because we all mainly remember our crappie teachers. The good ones like a good referee you don't notice most of the time.
I really wish I could kill the whole, "well when I was in high school of had crappy teachers so..." thing. You know NOTHING about teaching from going to high school. Not only did you not see what was going on behind the scenes (which is about 75% of teaching) but you were also filtering everything through your teenage lense. Teenagers (due to crazy things happening with mental, emotional, and physical development) warp every experience through a very limited and selfish point of view.
Elitra1 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 23:16:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
you were clearly never taught by people who didnt understand the subject they were teaching, couldnt keep a class under control or had personal vendettas against certain children so would encourage bullying. My high school was full of it and now i work in a school i see the same things happeneing.
[deleted] ยท 208 points ยท Posted at 16:41:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It is the taxpaying public's responsibility to pay public school teachers. And it is the taxpaying public's responsibility (via voting) to influence how those funds are allocated. If you ignore midterm elections, lower-level politicians, and ballot initiatives, you are very much personally part of the problem. In my state at least (this is not true everywhere, which is why they don't consistently rank worst or second worst in education), tax increases can only be changed by voting. No matter how small and insignificant the amount of money is, and no matter how pressing and important the issue is, these measures do not pass. People will vote "no" on "increase property taxes by one eighth of a penny to fund education/your own drinking water/whatever" every single time.
We don't just hand over a lump sum to "the government" and then have no more say in what they do with it. We are, as the tax paying, voting public, also responsible (partially) for directing how the money is spent. If you skip midterm elections because CNN and FOX News aren't riling you into a frenzy about a president, then you have been personally complicit in this issue. If you don't research the politicians you vote for beyond who's going to Washington or just voting down a straight party line, you have been personally complicit in this issue. If you huff and scoff and don't vote at all because you're so wrapped up with the idea that your vote regarding the two or three big-time politicians on the ballot "doesn't matter," you also remove your input from the elections of lower-level politicians who's actions have direct and immediate effect on you and the local/state community......and you have been personally complicit in this issue. So many of the people who's jobs it is to allocate these funds and do it poorly remain in their positions for years because people are too busy whinging about Presidential elections (as if the president has anything to do with teacher's salaries vs. a new football field), or refuse to vote for a Democrat/Republican/something else.
And yes, part of the problem is that there is objectively an insufficient amount of money being "thrown at" this problem. I know it's the most beloved right-wing talking point, but education costs money and things can't be pulled out of thin air. If half the classrooms in the state don't have modern textbooks, computers, or enough teachers, that is because the money is not there to buy textbooks and computers, or to pay enough teachers. Throwing money at the problem immediately fixes the problem. It's not the only action that would fix the problem (as your example illustrates), but the money has to be present for it to be allocated at all.
I live in British Columbia and we just had a fairly severe teacher's strike a couple of years back. Now, the teachers weren't arguing for just higher pay, (increased benefits were put in there as well) they were mainly arguing for class size limits and class composition (number of special ed students in a given class).
The talking point that was repeatedly thrown down by the side arguing for the teachers was "BC spends $1000 less per student than the national average". Now this seems significant, but when you look how BC students compare to the other provinces in grade's I think we ranked within the top 3.
I'm not saying we can completely ignore the role funding has in education. I can't imagine going through a school system with no textbooks, computers or the ability to fund excellent electives (Arts, Music, Shop, Mechanics, etc..). But if we are asking how can we make the system more effective, there are other inputs than just a school districts budget. It's not effective to throw money at a problem without identifying that problem and constantly re-evaluating to see where else we can put the money.
[deleted] ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 19:51:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 23:37:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, "throwing money at the problem" is a beloved right-wing talking point, especially when it comes to educating children. You being liberal doesn't mean you are immune to that.
Good for you for voting in every local election! Maybe if more people thought like you, this wouldn't be so large of an issue.
Also, you may feel free to take an enormous step back regarding "this is Illinois" as if that's supposed to shut me up. I am intimately aware of the issues with Illinois politics, especially regarding the school system. I'm aware that it's fucked up, but oh my dear.....you don't have any idea how much more fucked up it could be. People from Illinois (or who hear about Illinois on the news) love to moan and groan as if it's the most corrupt, failtastic place in the country, and that's not even close to the truth. I now live where the corrupt Illinois politicians move to in order to avoid trouble, because in Illinois, politicians actually run the risk of getting in trouble occasionally. You have no idea how relatively cushy that makes your experience.
akesh45 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:45:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
The school was shitty, but filled with students from well-educated families who were going to the local big-name university regardless, in spite of their crappy high schooling.
As a former teacher it's the demographics that determine performance....it's pretty hard to make a shitty school unless you purposely hire bums.
Those high ass property taxes ironically are used to fund the schools so they attract wealthier families which in turn raise property values which usually boosts performance(Rich kids mop the floor with poor kids in school) even further. Naperville,IL is a example of this....insane proptery taxes....but every indian doctor in the state gives his left nut to move here.
This isn't really how it works. Most townships have votes on school budgets. The people decide exactly how much money they are giving towards education on a local level.
I'm all for paying teachers more, but first there needs to be a change in the system and the teachers union. I live in BC and teachers cannot be fired here for doing a poor job teaching. Their superiors can only make recommendations on how they can improve their work, but cannot take disciplinary action when say a child with autism is being sent to the medical room to sleep for a few hours because the teacher is unwilling to properly do their job and help them with their work.
FM_Mono ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:47:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My mum is an integration aide which, if you don't have them, is basically a TA who focuses on one or two specific children in a classroom, and typically those who need constant attention, like the kids with autism.
I bring this up because in a classroom of 20+ students with one kid with autism, it's a horrible thing to do to expect the teacher to put aside the education of 20 students to focus literally all day on getting the autistic one to do a few maths problems. That's a rough gig, and typically it's not an unwillingness issue on the teacher's behalf, but a simple inability.
That's where mum comes in. Obviously it's unreasonable to not educate the children who need this literal 24-hour supervision, but this isn't the teacher's fault. They're there to educate a group of students, not just the one that needs constant attention.
Don't blame the teacher - blame the school and the district for not hiring enough aides to help the teacher get the job done.
hoybowdy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:44:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hey, asshole, you also vote for people who negotiate in bad faith - in ways that shortchange and slowly crush teachers' souls. Want to redirect those resources? Vote differently and stop claiming it isn't your fault 'cause "government". You ARE the government.
I'd argue a solid sports system gets more people to graduate high school per dollar than raising teachers salaries. (in poor school districts) I wish that wasn't the case, but it does. Funding extra curriculars sounds like a money sink, but giving kids reasons to come to school and do well enough to participate, in those activities, is a great thing.
mjk1093 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:40:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A solid sports program, yes that does help keep kids in school. Art and music programs too. However no High School needs multi-million dollar football stadiums - kids just want to play the game. The shiny stadiums only feed the ego of adults - and probably involve lots of contractor kickbacks.
Part of the money is paid for by the city, part by boosters, and yes part by the school district. A nice stadium that lasts 10 years that costs lets say $3,000,000 vs a $10,000 raise on (let's say)1200 teachers in your average school district. So 10,000 x 1200 teachers x 10 years comes to $120,000,000 over 10 years.
NOW do you think teachers getting a salary boost of that much (with only a 4 years bachelors and 1/4 of the year "off") will cause more students to graduate than a well funded sports (and I'd concede they need to add more money into all extra curricular)?
The system is brokeeeeeeee, but throwing money at teachers with a simple bachelors and so much time off does not seem like a realistic solution.
I say we take that 120,000,000 over 10 years. Fund sports, fund music, fund student run clubs. Fund college out reach and advanced placement classes. Give raises to teachers continuing education.
GET PEOPLE TO GRADUATE
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:15:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For the record, most public schools have a standardized pay scale in place that increases teacher salaries based on experience and continuing education.
I agree with you that investing in extracurricular activities is a great way to keep kids interested in school. With that said, the way you propose funding that new football stadium is a little off. A poor school doesn't have boosters, period. The property tax revenue from that poor district is low, so there is little chance it will be enough to pay for a stadium. The lack of property tax revenue often means the schools in general is underfunded, meaning less money for other extracurriculars. Those poor schools are the places that are struggling to produce the graduates. For all of the things the federal government does wrong with public education (increased standardized testing), it at least provides grants to those schools so they can sometimes have decent extracurricular activities.
Getting people to graduate is a very difficult task. A lot of places that struggle to produce graduates have that problem because the students come from economically depressed homes that either don't value education or don't know what getting an education really looks like. Even most poor schools have some sort of college-level coursework, whether it be AP or a partnership with a university. (Universities love these programs as they recruit first-gen college students.) If the school doesn't, unless it's one of the worst of the worst, it will send a high achieving kid to community college for classes.
All public education is different. Do your research on the problems with your local schools and see what can be done, because the problems one school district is facing often aren't the same as the ones in your district. Do your part and volunteer to coach a team so at-risk kids get more involved at school. Sorry for the rant, it just seemed like you cared but were oversimplifying the problem a bit.
"With only a 4 year bachelors"
You can't even teach in many states and districts with just a 4 year bachelors. Nevermind that the pay is really low compared to other professions with equivalent education levels.
"1/4 of the year off"
Seriously? Seriously? First of all, we only get paid for contract hours. That means I only get paid for 6:50am-2:15pm on the days I work. Never mind that I can legally be held until 5:00 by the principal for faculty meetings (which are weekly), and that conferences, IEP meetings, tutoring, after school clubs, helping with school performances, grading and planning must all be done by me on my own time without pay. Oh yeah, and your math is incorrect, I get 1/6 of the year "off" if you count traveling to go to conferences and training during spring break and summer as being "off" time. I get as unpaid for that as I do for the parts of breaks I do spend by the pool.
Studies have repeatedly shown that the teacher is the best investment we can make dollar for dollar in improving student achievement. Unfortunately, there are those out there that think like you, and that thinking hurts our students. I have seen so many gifted educators leave the profession because they can't afford to teach anymore. I love teaching, but some days it is really tough to think about how much more money and how much more time with my family I could have if I switched professions. I graduated top of my class in chemistry, worked in a biochemistry lab starting when I was 19 years old, and crushed a lot of premed kids dreams by breaking the curve in all of their science courses. Basically I am expected to be a martyr and take the low pay and long hours while having to read stuff like this everywhere. Right now, that is what I am doing because I love it, but if you think losing experienced, talented, and caring educators due to the pay is somehow helping students then you are crazy.
Edit: spelling
akesh45 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:55:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The system is brokeeeeeeee, but throwing money at teachers with a simple bachelors and so much time off does not seem like a realistic solution.
Teacher attrition occurs often due to piss poor pay and prestige. So your kid gets taught by burn outs or newbies.
Fund sports, fund music, fund student run clubs. Fund college out reach and advanced placement classes. Give raises to teachers continuing education.
Continuing education for teachers is a gigantic waste of money if you mean masters. AP classes are the kinda classes most poor kids won't voluntarily take. Going to class =/= learning enough to graduate...I'm not sure how sports will help. If anything I think sports should be spun off of school entirely until college. Just a waste of tax payer money and time.
akesh45 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:50:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Funding extra curriculars sounds like a money sink, but giving kids reasons to come to school and do well enough to participate, in those activities, is a great thing.
Only a small percentage of kids play sports so the rest suffer greatly.
Your underpaid highschool teachers obviously weren't good at all if you believe that it isn't your job to pay teachers.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:31:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's basically how everything is. "Oh, you wanted MY money for that? I've had a sudden change of heart..."
That said, when you make less money than teachers it's really hard to justify paying them more out of your own pocket. Not that that applies to many of us.
It's because some teachers deserve more money, where some deserve to be fired. There are tons of new grads that would love to become a teacher but can't because the union is messed up and does not allow the school board to fire teachers that are terrible at their job. Why not let go the horrible teachers and replace them with new ones? That's how every other profession works.
Everyone always talks about unions no and how they protect the bad teachers. If a teacher is bad, it's quite possibly not the union that keeps them in the classroom. Plenty of teachers in my district have been removed from the classroom. The union is there to make sure the procedure for removal is followed - not to keep the teacher employed. The teachers know the procedure. The admin knows the procedure. But many times the admin fails to follow the most basic steps required - you have to have an evaluation done by December 1, or the post-evaluation conference has to be held within 5 days of the observation. When the admin doesn't even start observations until thanksgiving or takes 3 weeks to do the post, it's not the union "protecting bad teachers." It's the people who have a straightforward, agreed-upon procedure to follow and fail to do so who are allowing those teachers to stay in the classroom.
There is a bad teacher at my school that the department would dearly love to get rid of and replace with someone competent. Three years in a row the principal failed to do an eval prior to December 1. That's why she's still there, the union has nothing to do with it.
Teachers in Finland and South Korea are also not accepted into teaching colleges unless they are in the top, single-digits of their classes.
Here in the US universities tend to be slightly less, ahem, discerning when it comes to whom it is they accept into their schools of education.
This is a situation that was examined in depth by the hot bed of Koch Brother right-wing-ism known commonly as CBS news some years ago. It's also a problem that has been commented upon by any number of pro-Charter school groups and the educators who run them.
Let's face it. Teachers get low pay in the US because A) these are not academically rigorous programs at most universities so they tend to get the undecideds and those not looking for a serious challenge and B) because of A, there are a whole lot more people out there with teaching credentials than there are places for them to teach.
The market is outright flooded. And a teaching degree and a public sector union are not magic force fields against the vagaries of supply and demand curve.
This! Same with in Canada. I was at a University in Edmonton trying to become a highschool biology teacher, and the amount of students who were just in the Education program because they "didn't know what else to do" was astounding. These people then become teachers because honestly, the program (for elementary anyways-biology was a beast) was so simple. So when someone says "our teachers should be paid more" I'm always a little on the fence.
tomousse ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 01:27:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teachers earn a good salary in Canada though. Canadian teachers get lumped in with American teachers when it comes to pay scales when in reality teachers are fairly compensated in Canada.
Or because they want to coach. The football coach at my college was notorious for pushing his undecided players into the education program. Most of the time they would pick secondary social studies to specialize in, because they were told it was the easiest discipline
naideck ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:13:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lol why are you getting downvoted? It's pretty much the truth with what is going on right now and the South Korean thing is pretty accurate as well.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:33:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
tomousse ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:28:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not everyone gets to realize their dreams.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:25:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
tomousse ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 09:41:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Educational requirements aren't artificial barriers. It's a a legitimate method to weed out the under qualified.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:05:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
tomousse ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:20:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fair enough. A random percentage is a dumb way to determine who is qualified to do something.
Second, you can weed out the under-qualified through the program itself.
And this is something that just does not happen as much as it should. Grade inflation is a problem in every department these days, but it's especially bad in education departments.
I'm not filled with hate for teachers. I'm just generally befuddled by their insistence that they be regarded with the same professional deference as Doctors, Lawyers, and Engineers. I can assure you that in those programs, there is a colossal amount of attrition that only helps to drive the quality of graduates higher.
I don't want to see anyone cut off from their dream job by arbitrary measures. But I also don't want to see people I'm forced to pay by law (i.e., under pain of incarceration) get to ignore any standard and dictate to me how much they are worth. But that's how it seems to play out all over the country.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:42:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:44:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:13:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:17:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:58:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:18:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
While I agree that teachers should be paid more to deal with the students shit.... I do not like teachers, I didn't like teachers when I was in school, I dont like teachers now when I go to my son's school........ At least they are better than the administrative staff in the offices. Bunch of catty bitches in the offices.
Teachers are extremely important for the future of any nation but what other job demands equal compensation for less than a years worth of work? You get 20% of the year off you get 80% of pay to a comparable career.
Edit: Thanks for those who responded, this wasn't an attack on teachers or anything I genuinely want to know. It seems the common thing that teachers work hours upon hours after the official school day ends but my response to that would be what about the thousands of other careers that don't end when the workday is over?. Jobs like my future profession archeology. Sure you spend 9-5 digging and recording but when you go home, that's where the analysis and additional reading and writing are done. Do archaeologists get paid extra for that? No.
Maybe that was a bad example but there are literally hundreds of jobs that don't end when the work day is over and they still work 49 out of the 52 weeks a year.
When you come home from work, is your workday over? Mine NEVER is. There is ALWAYS more grading to be done, more lesson planning, and preparing for the surprise inspections which come 5 or more times a year (and you'd BETTER be ready!) I know many people carry a smartphone and are "on call" but I'm working for 2 hours every night ON TOP of the paid workday. I teach Jr. High in NYC.
Or, more succinctly: "I'm all caught up!" said no teacher, ever.
Most teachers work extra hours after school and on weekends grading, planning, and communicating with parents. Furthermore, summers are not spent relaxing. They are used for professional development, collaboration, and curriculum development. When you take the hours worked by the average teacher over 40 weeks, it balances out to that which a full time worker does in 52.
You sir are so wrong, it is funny. We have contact hours in classes, but then comes grading, preparing, administration, meetings, our studie, and don't forget about students asking for extra education after school. Basically, our average workweek equals any other work week only that it is in 80% of the time. Because of that, most teachers will be grading during the breaks and prepare lesson plans. We do this to spread the workload. Breaks do give us more time for ourselves, but remember: On holiday's we are always in high season, never more than 2 weeks except summer. Another downside about teaching.
Not47 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:39:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Where I'm from, teachers make over 100 k after ten years. Start around 80k.
Edit thanks for the downvotes. This is in canada so dont get your panties in a bunch.
9 years ago, I saw how much teachers at my High School got paid (MN). They started around $40k and then jump up by time teaching and highest education (bachelors, masters, Ph.D) and plateau around $90k. There is additional funding that was given to coaches and teachers involved in other activities.
Jmsnwbrd ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:46:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Where are you from? Government employees in America have salaries posted. In America not one district starts at over 50,000.
Not47 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:29:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a teacher and I can almost guarantee that if you are in the US, then you are misinformed. Only administrators make this kind of money. I'm in one of the higher paying areas and my first year I only made 40,000$. Four years in, I'm at $47,000 without any extra stipends. The cap is $65,000.
i don't want to pay them the money. they work 9 months a year in a free market economy. they aren't getting paid because their job is likely oversaturated and as a result there's no real purpose in paying them more.
while it'd be nice to pay everyone in the world a billion dollars per year, it's not feasible and the free market has dictated that 1 teacher has less relative value than say.... 1 doctor.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 19:27:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have been tutoring math and science since high school and I thoroughly enjoy teaching and would like to think that I would be a pretty good teacher. I've thought about teaching, but there is no way I would give up my job as an engineer to go back and be a teacher for half as much. I think the same holds true for many people in the science and engineering fields. The ones who are really passionate about it (and have an enthusiasm that translates well into teaching) can't justify leaving their careers to teach for much lower pay (and a much more grueling schedule, which naturally comes with teaching). If teaching paid somewhat competitively with a regular job, even if it was 10-20k less, I would've definitely considered it.
Thank you! This is my issue when people say oh teachers don't get paid too badly and they also complain about the quality of teachers. Yeah the pay isn't awful but you aren't going to get nearly as many great teachers as you could get if the pay was competitive with other jobs those people could be doing. Don't even get me started on people who seem to think teachers just spend their whole holidays relaxing!
I'd take $40,000 a year, summers and all holidays off, lengthy spring and winter breaks to be a teacher. My brother teaches 5th grade and a friend teaches 4th, no doubt it's tough, but there are also great benefits to being a teacher on top of great health benefits.
badham ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:28:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes except most teachers are either doing prepping, grading, or doing professional development during these breaks. There's no break :(
QCMBRman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:53:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"I know i'm crazy, we all are, we have to be." -my Latin teacher.
I am all for paying teachers more. But the problem is, my calc teacher deserves 12 cents and my world lit teacher deserves $100,000 but how do you determine that. Teaching should be paid by skill not by tenure or how many years they've been employed. Because that doesn't motivate them to do a better job.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:21:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The average salary of a teacher (K-8): $44,548
The average salary of a high school teacher: $48,745
The average salary of an engineer: $66,890
Engineers make roughly $16,722.50 per quarter (3 month period) they work
Teachers make roughly $15,548.83 per quarter they work (3 month period)
I'm currently working on my masters so I can become a high school history teacher and I would love to be paid more. But I think we need to stop with this bullshit narrative that teacher's don't get paid enough money. They work 3 less months out of the year than every other profession. If you break it down to how much they make per quarter you see that the difference really isn't that substantial between your average engineer and a teacher.
True story: I taught high school in rural and suburban Illinois (nowhere near Chicago) for eight years. I had a master's degree in my field, and received several extra stipends for activities. In my eighth and final year as a full-time professional educator in the U.S., I made all of $39,520.
The next summer, I took an IT training job and received a 20% raise.
Depends on where you are . I have an aunt out west who is at 90k she has a bachelors and a masters that her school paid for. 90k to work 9 months a year sounds goods to me.
[deleted] ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 19:36:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fuck that. These people get paid to read word for word the same PowerPoint they've been using for the past 10 years. The hardest part of their job is grading ffs. You don't need a college education to read off a textbook.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 22:26:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wish I could give you a million up toes. You just described a teacher's day so well. In an ideal world, you could just walk in, talk about your PowerPoint and everyone would understand. But you're dealing with 25+ individuals each with their own personalities and issues.
Let's also not forget those unexpected interruptions as you're trying to teach: the fire drill, the call from the office because Joey's dad is here to pick him up early, and oh, the projector stopped working in the middle of the lesson so now you have to call tech support, and also Susie has to go to the bathroom (it's an EMERGENCY!)
[deleted] ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 16:43:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ha, as a former Marine that's now in the classroom, sometimes that'd work. I've definitely used similar leadership tactics with the kids as I did with junior Marines. However, with a lot of the middle schoolers I know, you'd lose any chance of them listening to you; if they don't fear the punishments, threats are ineffective. I think about the differences in leadership styles a lot, actually. I think the best way to motivate someone isn't force or intimidation, but rather showing them that group and self interests align.
AxmxZ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:30:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teaching is an art. One of my favorite Russian literary men, who teaches high school and college, says his standard tactic when he walks into a 'difficult' classroom is to speak to them as though they were actually a class of gifted college students. Lots of long words, lots of complex ideas, and always the segue "As you already know..." He says they tend to spend the first class disoriented and puzzled, then they slowly start catching on, and eventually, their self-esteem compels them to try harder rather than try to sabotage the class, and their performance improves dramatically. I'd love to know if there are any teachers in America who practice this sort of approach.
That's an interesting approach. I'm sure the kids like having someone treat them more like grown ups. Kids spend their entire days being lectured at by adults whose only source of authority is their age. Of course the kids realize that, and they single out the teachers who love teaching only because they want to wield egotistical power over a helpless audience. I try and be more relaxed and treat them like adults. No strategy will work for everyone, of course, and they're all watching to see if those one or two trouble makers rattle you enough to make you lose your cool. I'm helped out because I'm male (not to be sexist, but I think middle schoolers respond better to men, usually), and young, and kinda sarcastic, and I think they just don't try as much with me as they might with another adult.
jdman929 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:47:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
He actually reminds of some students which require this kind of instruction. You forgot your homework! Have you ever seen a carpenter forget his toolbox? And if one did, what would you think of it. The kid wisely said he would be a moron, basically insulting himself... Teaching is fun
I tried this for a bible class in a summer activity. The hyper kids actually preferred to do the fifty over their activity. I ended up using it as a reward.
Same here, at least if you expect me to actually work with kids. If I can just sit in the classroom not caring about the kids, maybe I'd consider $100K per year.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:45:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I occasionally teach as part of a volunteer organization. Sometimes it's just one day a week. And at the end of that one single day I'm fucking exhausted.
I'm a student teacher and due to a medical emergency (my second week) I was left to my own devices in a room full of south Phoenix 4th graders for a week with almost no sub plans. Coming out at the end alive is a triumph and gone are the "he's just a misunderstood child" days. Sit down you little shit, you don't need another squirt of hand sanitizer.
[deleted] ยท 48 points ยท Posted at 18:07:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Holy shit, you survived a war zone. I have friends who teach in the Roosevelt ESD, and the stores they tell give me the shivers. Then again, they would have less horror stories if Phoenix had a halfway organized school system.
Haha Roosevelt is where I'm at. The principal is great but holy shit the state needs to get it together. Our class has 32 kids! There's two kids who are new and way behind in math and my mentor teaching straight up told me there's nothing we can do and they'd just have to fail. She doesn't have the time money or resources to catch them up herself.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:48:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Phoenix would save itself a lot of hassle if it would consolidate districts. There is no need for all the ESDs and the High School District to be seperate.
We had a kid that was using sanitizer to get "high". He would clean his hands and then sniff them I guess to smell the alchohol scent. He also liked to lick his hands after sanitizing. We had to cut him off.
Sure, you can get drunk of of hand sanitizer, but if I've learned anything from distilling, that shit will blind you.
caeth ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:50:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I taught for 2 years in Phoenix. The horror stories... I think I lost 10 years off my life. Currently teaching in a school with a high poverty rate, but in a state that actually supports education.
Slothy22 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:02:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There was a kid in my High School that tried to get drunk by drinking hand sanitizer. We had to switch to a foam rather than a liquid after that.
In junior high a kid tried to poison our science teacher (who was fighting breast cancer) by pumping hand sanitizer into her coffee. Luckily she wasn't fucking stupid and noticed the taste right away. I think the kid got suspended for a long time, he definitely came back the next year.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:05:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Did a week of supply right after my student teaching in a g4 class that I had done my second placement in.
Easily the worst teaching of my career. I remember being super down on myself after things didn't go well. No major problems or anything, but I gained a massive new respect for the profession after that -- and I already thought I knew a lot.
11 years in and I'm still learning.
It's like poker. Anyone really can do it, but to do it well and make a real difference is a whole other game, and it doesn't take long to see who the pros and pretenders are.
tweeex ยท 214 points ยท Posted at 15:18:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I taught little kids overseas for a few years. The biggest thing I learned: if you are tired, anxious, stressed out, hungover (ESPECIALLY hungover) or otherwise not feeling your best, they know. I don't know how, they just KNOW. They've got some sort of little kid sixth sense or something. They know, and they will use every opportunity they can to take advantage of it. There's nothing worse than being hungover in a room full of screaming children.
Shit, it makes sense now that we watched a movie every Monday in 9th grade English.
mdogg500 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:42:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For me it was I could tell when a teacher was mentally weak and I know my class could as well and being the kid who just wanted to learn and go home without extra work because of "the good suffer for the bad". I internally hated weak teachers because I know they'd combat bad behavior with pointless work
I'm guessing this was ESL; I have the opposite experience. My off days are the days my 3-6 year olds are the kindest. They don't know what's wrong (sick, depressed, whatever) but enough of them can sense it.
Seanay-B ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:56:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you go to work hungover you deserve sirens to go off in your ears you fucking idiot.
tweeex ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:48:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hahaha, yeah, you're probably right. It was mostly the result of (a) only working on the weekends (private schoolteacher), (b) liquor being cheap, good, and ubiquitous, and (c) the expectation from my coworkers, superiors, and friends to hardcore drink with them whenever they wanted. Which was often. If you're really curious: I lived in China, where there's a serious work-drinking culture; it's essentially a given that if you go out with your coworkers and drinking is involved, everyone is going to start buying each other a bunch of shots, and declining this offer is essentially the worst social faux pas one can commit (you can say you're not a heavy drinker and get away with drinking less, but god forbid you claim to be a teetotalerโthat'll make you lose face, and face is, like, THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS in Chinese society). It's a little bit fucked up, yesโbasically a glorified, nationalized form of peer pressureโbut there you have it. The end result was some seriously bad hangovers, not just for me, but for all of my coworkers and bosses as well. I'm not trying to exonerate myself or condone this kind of behaviorโit's pretty bad, honestlyโbut it's definitely a cultural phenomenon over there. Makes you think. And worry.
tweeex ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:41:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah man, it's a little unnerving. This article sums up the problem pretty well; I don't know nearly as much about other Asian drinking cultures, but I've heard from some friends that Korea and Japan have similar tendencies.
What drives me nuts is the way the entire public seems to think that being a good teacher amounts to just knowing a lot about the subject. It's why people who've never worked in a school in their lives seem to think they know the cure-all to fix the education system.
edit: Thanks for the gold! This is the happiest day of my life.
This. Teacher here. Subject knowledge is tested on entrance exams as first part of a complicated licensure process. One can't truly begin to become a teacher (complete the necessary masters program needed in most states) unless you pass at least two of these exams: one on general communication and literacy skills (a cornerstone of all academia) and another highly specified by subject and grade level. Next comes learning how to actually teach and understanding the responsibilities of a teacher. This generally takes one and a half to two years of classes which concludes with a practicum and student teaching. From here, one can actually be considered a licensed teacher. However, licenses have more levels to them and one will need to take a plethora of more mandatory classes to upgrade to higher pay grades, or if your state decides to institute new policies such as ELL or SPED training. This is for a first year teacher in MA which has generally higher thresholds than other states, but then again, not the highest. In all this time, subject matter is rarely discussed. It is assumed you have superior knowledge or you wouldn't be there in the first place. So much of teaching has little do with subject and much more to do with psychology and interpersonal skills such as relationship-building, empathy, dealing with abrupt behaviors and those that persist over time, student to teacher to parent to administration communication; the list goes on. Subject and lesson planning, either individually, or as a department, is left to individual attention and after school meetings. These meetings are often a group strategy session led by veteran teachers and administrators to hone in on details of subject and why and how it should be taught. Furthermore, there is a procedural work load with things like grading, updating online learning systems, emails to all of the above, special education meetings and communication, forms for this or that, etc. TLDR - adequate subject knowledge is a foregone conclusion in teaching; being a good teacher is about so much more.
Edit: Writing mistakes. Come on me, and you claim to be a teacher!
PoSKiix ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 03:00:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As someone who has just recently started taking teaching classes, this thread is really a turn off
When it's all over though, you get to do the best thing in the world, better people through knowledge. Plus...summers off!
MpVpRb ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:04:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What drives me nuts is the way the entire public seems to think that being a good teacher amounts to just knowing a lot about the subject
Not me
I look at it this way. The student, who wants to learn, is trying to find all the pieces to a puzzle. The pieces must be found in the right order, at the right time. The student has no idea how many pieces there are
A good teacher tries to figure out what piece the student needs at the time. A bad teacher gives them a piece they already have, or a piece they're not ready for yet
The student who doesn't want to learn is just serving time in jail
But they need to have a reallyb thorough understanding. The idea people who struggle in school themselves are good teachers because they sympathize doesn't pan out. Studies show students perform better when their teachers did well on school. Why? I would guess because anyone can be kind but you can't explain a concept you don't totally understand. You don't need to be a genius, bit you really do need to be above average.
Emm03 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:47:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My calculus teacher in high school understood the material up and down from twenty years of teaching it and had studied the proofs and mechanics of what he was teaching, but wasn't a mathematician by any means. I don't think math was something that really came naturally to him when he was younger, and I think that was a big part of why he was a great teacher.
That's something you see with sports too--the best players don't always make the best coaches because they tend to read the game more intuitively and that's hard to teach.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:01:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A handful of my professors are proof of that.
Endlessly spewing off every little thing you know about a subject does not equate to being a good teacher.
Psudopod ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:06:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ugh, I hate professors. Sadly, at that point on your educational career, it is entirely up to you to learn the material, since the professor isn't going to help you absorb it. Lectures are the worst way to learn. Guess who is famous for lectures? Professors! Ugh. They may be an expert in their subject, but they are not an expert in teaching it. I'd say a professional teacher would be better, since they would help all the students learn what they need to know, but that isn't the point.
The point is if you are sly, you can squeeze all the facts and insider knowledge beyond a teacher's or textbook's understanding of the subject and then use the skills that got you into college in the first place and learn it all by your own damn self. That's the goal. Doesn't mean I like it, or am good at it.
I honestly think it's better to have great teachers who don't know that much about a subject, but can clearly convey what they do know and get kids interested in it, than borderline geniuses that loudly wonder what they're even doing there (my Physics 11 teacher).
My wife always tells me i should be a history teacher. Just because I like to get stoned and rant about Europe, post fall of Rome through the end of the Viking age doesn't mean id make a good history teacher ๐.
It more just comes down to a passion for working with children as being an educator and positive role model. I had my fair share of horrible teachers in grade school that were obviously just in it for work. Don't teach if you aren't passionate about it, it's terrible for everyone.
Truedat. Teaching involves a lot of "behind the scenes" work, and there are more skills involved than just having the knowledge.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:43:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I had a lot of adjunct professors who were amazing, accomplished individuals in their field. Really smart people and good at what they did. Plus all the ones I had were really nice too. But man did they suck at teaching
crhuble ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:30:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly, you don't even have to know a lot about your subject. Obviously it helps, but as you point out: the fundamentals of teaching come from creativity, patience, diligence, and knowing how to manage a classroom.
True dat. You spend so much time just keeping the kids under wraps that unless you've really got the delivery of the learning material sorted out you'll lose them again in a heartbeat.
[deleted] ยท 147 points ยท Posted at 16:46:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Personally, I didn't find teaching the kids hard, but rather all the bullshit that comes with it.
Parents for instance. There was one incident where a mom stood up in the award ceremonies to call the principal stupid because little Johnny didn't win an award.
That's the part of teaching I'd hate. Dealing with little Snowflake's Mummy who says you must be wrong because she'd never only get a B, and she couldn't possibly have been misbehaving, you can't punish my special little princess!
Conversely, I had to go all the way to the principal to get a spreadsheet changed as the formulas were clearly incorrect but the teacher and head of department kept saying that I was wrong even after reviewing the spreadsheet. Eventually, a maths tracher reviewed yhe file and changed it correctly. The school then had the audacity to tell me that just because my rank increased by 15 that it wouldn't affect the rank of anyone else.
Well, I was talking in terms of the paperwork for each student needed by the teacher to have for the principal, to give to the district office, to make sure it's there for the state.
Teacher here.
There seems to be a belief that we arrive at 8:30 with the children, leave at 3:30 with them also and don't forget about all those holidays! This could not be further from the truth and I think anyone who actually knows/lives with a teacher knows how draining and time consuming it is. It is a lifestyle choice as well as a career.
That being said, I love my job! Best choice I ever made to become a teacher.
Amen to that. Any time I mention how tired I am, there's always someone who says, "Pfft, yeah, but you get so much holiday and you go home at 3:30 every day." Yeah, add at least 2 hours on either side of the hours you think I work, plus weekends, then subtract most of my lunch breaks, and you'll be a little closer to the truth.
Holla! I had an acquaintance try to say I complained too much after saying I was exhausted when my report card deadline came up. I spent the next day updating hourlies of my day to prove a point. "I didn't realize teachers had so much to do." Yeah no shit
Fellow teacher here. I left my apartment at 7am yesterday and got back at 9:30pm. School day, meetings, theater practice, basketball games, grading, planning, etc. The idea of a 9-5 in which you don't take work home seems glorious.
Wyzegy ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 01:00:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's what ultimately drove me out of it. You never realize how important "turning off" is until you haven't done it for 3 years.
Without a doubt. My mother taught from 1979 to 2013, and she had fucking had it by the end. Administrators dropping more and more of their work on the teachers (even though they were hiring more administrators every couple of years), parents not believing their kid actually isn't a little angel and blaming it all on the teacher, if they're even involved, parents not wanting their child to be tested for learning disabilities, having to teach to the test because that's all the time allows, merit pay hanging over their heads as a constant possibility (as if teaching children who don't want to learn is somehow your fault).
I've heard it all. My mom loved it, the children who would talk to her 15, 20 years down the line and say she made a difference made it all worth while to her. She even taught a few children of former students because they requested her.
She put her heart, soul, and quite a bit of her own money into it. The district I grew up in and my mom taught in was a mix of classes, from upper, to middle, to lower classes, so whenever they took the yearly trip to the state capitol, she would give any kids in her class who didn't have money to buy souvenirs $5 of her own money, not much, but an amazing gift to those kids. Not to mention all the supplies she bought for the class.
She seemed to be near constantly grading papers while we were home. I rarely saw my mom ever drink growing up (even in social settings it was strange), but in the last two or three years she taught, it wouldn't be strange to see her with a glass of wine while grading papers, and occasionally she'd choke up a little bit if I asked her what was going on. To me, that one glass of wine was the equivelant to someone's dad coming home and instantly downing 2 six packs in 20 minutes. So much changed, but not for the better.
And after all this, she was constantly belittled, being told she didn't care for the kids and was only doing it for the money, because, goddamn, teachers sure get paid the big bucks these days. Being told she was wrong to call her union rep when she was being harassed by the administrators for actually giving a shit if a kid was tested for a disability or not, when not being tested means a kid would be told all his or her life that they were just stupid, lazy, and didn't try enough.
I remember there were a few kids in my class that were troubled kids. Trouble at home, broken families, they were frequently in trouble during high school. So while they were either fighting with other kids or the teachers, they'd occasionally ask how my mom was doing, and how she was nice to them. Firm, but fair and understanding. I think that my mom made a difference to them, that there are truly people out there that care about you.
I guess I'm done ranting. Having lived with one, I know that people give teachers a lot of shit.
I'm in at 7:30 at the latest, usually out between 5-7. Spend day of Saturday planning. And I split my responsibilities with my coteacher, so I'm only doing 1/2 the work of a solo teacher. I also eat my lunch standing up and dealing with kids. That being said, I also love my job, but it sure as shit ain't for everyone.
I leave my house at 7am and get it most days at 6:30pm. This does mean i take little home with me but thats marking through my lunch time and after school.
Still wouldn't change my job tho!
noah2461 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:00:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Good teachers are seriously underappreciated these days and the way students treat those trying to educate them makes me feel awful. Thank you for taking on a job more noble than most realize.
People also think teachers get paid for not working on the summer. They don't understand that they get a salary and some of it gets deferred so that they still receive money in the summer. My sister's friend's husband insisted that wasn't true and actually had the audacity to tell my sister that she didn't understand how she was paid. Also, while teachers have summers off, people don't realize that they are often taking classes and doing other things like developing lesson plans. You've got to love it when people think they are experts at something just because they've seen part of it done.
We also have in service for 2 weeks before the school year and 2 weeks after, so we really only have July-ish "off" and in a lot of districts, you have to teach summer school, do professional development, coach a sport/extracurricular activity that can also take up your time. You also need to prep for the next school year. I knew science teachers that would be switched from Biology to Chemistry and basically have to retool their entire arsenal of lesson plans and trouble shooting, test writing, etc. If you are in elementary school and get switched from kindergarten to 5th grade, a lot of that can't transfer, so you are retooling everything. You may also only get a week or two lead time for knowing all the students with special needs, let alone even seeing previous reviews or be able to meet with previous grade teachers to know what's up, if your system even has that luxury to do that.
I would say that although I do work in the summer it is only a week max. The bad thing about it is that going on holiday is so expensive, we can only take holiday in the peak times. We can't just take a day off here and there to go on holiday, theme park or a wedding. It all has to be out of term time.
By the term "holiday" I assume that you aren't in the US? Teachers here are often required to take classes occasionally to continue their education. I'm not suggesting there isn't a lot of downtime in the summer, but people also don't realize that good teachers put in way more than 40 hours a week during the school year. My sister is probably putting in 55+ hours a week.
I worked 15 hours to turnaround tests in a day so students could retake before finals. They were mostly pissed that they did badly, when really it's their fault for refusing to work during class despite constant redirection. Sigh.
Re: lifestyle choice. When you're out shopping, do you think "hey I could figure out a way to use that in my class?" I get caught in the Target Dollar Spot this way. Especially target's clearance racks. Out of season stickers on clearance? Cool, I'll use them for next year. Everywhere I go I am trying to scope out a deal I could use for school.
So true! I'm in the process of cleaning out stuff now. Our school is collecting items for a local children's hospital, and they are looking for craft items, puzzle books, etc. for the children. I'm slowly filling up a box with items to donate.
It also doesn't help that my mother was an art teacher. Growing up, we saved EVERYTHING because it could potentially be use in an art project. Egg cartons? Save that. Toilet paper rolls? Don't throw them out. Meat trays? Use them for paint trays. Cereal boxes? Great for light weight cardboard to use for something. Pringles cans = kaleidoscopes. And you need to save this stuff up so that you have enough for the class. I won't lie hat when I started working, and also when I was a Girl Scout leader I used to pilfer my mom's supplies!
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:53:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Talking smack about the kids/parents in the staff room makes it worth it.
hapiscan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:03:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm starting to seriously think I'd like to be a teacher. Right now I'm studying laws (in Mexico) and I really want to finish this major(?). When I finish, I'd love to study philosophy. If I get to do this as I want, I'll be 27 at the end. Is it realistic to think about teaching as a carreer in my case? What do I need to do? (in general, for I know that we have a different system here in Mexico) By the way, I'd like to teach high school or above (maybe, only maybe middle school) because I'm not precisely good with kids.
I started teaching high school in the U.S. at 35, am now 44. Best decision I ever made. Never had a job that I could honestly say I loved before. I absolutely love being a teacher.
When looking into a program to get certified to teach, make sure you will be able to spend time in a classroom right from the beginning (observing classrooms, pre-student teaching, etc.) Some programs don't actually get you into an actual classroom until student teaching. What waste of time if you discover after dedicating time and money, that you don't really like it.
Good luck. It's tremendously rewarding. Plus, you never have to go to work again. Every day, you go to school.
hapiscan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:31:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Man... This really hits me. I loved the last part. I love going to school, it's like a sanctuary to me.
I'll do my best to get the best formation and I'll follow your advise about the certification. This kind of things is what I need to know.
I started teaching at 26. It doesnt matter your age as long as you want it and enjoy it!
My one tip, get lots of experience before starting training. This will help make your mind up and looks good when applying for uni/jobs
hapiscan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:29:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's good news! I was really concerned about the age. This gives me hope.
And, what kind of experience may I need? I've always tought that I need to study something like pedagogy (or some kind of degree) in order to be a teacher. Do I really need to do it, or being a teacher is more than that and I can learn by my own how to do it?
Thank you very much for the answer, by the way. I've been worried for a while 'cause I don't really like to not have a life goal.
I don't know if this is the same in Mexico (assuming thats where your living and not just studying) but in the UK you have to have a teaching degree or a post graduate teaching qualification. Its on these courses that you learn all the pedagogy of teaching. However most of that stuff does not come into your day to day teaching, you learn most of it on the job.
For your experience just get into schools and see teaching. Most schools will accept people for experience (after having your background checks done) and talk with teachers about it. Do more then one week tho, really experience it.
hapiscan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:18:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not really sure about Mexico, I still need to do some research. I'm not sure how education works here. I hope that it won't be so hard, and I'm happy to read that you get to learn by practice.
I'll try to do this and I'll ask my teachers what else could I do. This is starting to get serious.
Thank you!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:18:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fuck I'm in engineering but I'm thinking about going for a master's to teach. I don't know what I want to do. How'd you know you wanted to teach?
I used to be a builder and when i met my (now) wife she was about to start teacher training. I was coaching a football team for children and she suggested I might like this for a career as I was fed up of working on site . I went and got some experience in schools and realised I really liked it!
Teacher also. Never mind the extra hours...the sheer exhaustion from being not only their teacher, but a mentor, friend, and sometimes even parent is enough to make me collapse. It is not only physically taxing, but mentally as well!
Someone on reddit was looking for a career with lots of free time and another person suggested teaching because they get summers off. When I tried to point out that teachers have to work more than 40 hours a week by the very nature of their job (can't grade or have meetings while you are teaching) and have to prepare for the next year over the summer, people were jumping down my throat to tell me all the teachers they know that never work additional hours, have all their lessons planned, and don't work over the summer. I think those must have been some crappy teachers though
And the extra-curriculars. Shit. I'm a music teacher, so I pretty much explicitly signed up for staying after school till 6 most days and giving up a ton of Friday nights and Saturdays for rehearsals, concerts, and competitions. But a lot of other teachers have their own things. All those clubs need a sponsor. All those sports need coaches. There are papers to grade, essays to read, emails to send, trips/events/fundraisers to plan. There is SO much extra stuff that we do.
Most of the advice I see online about teaching is basically amounting to how to have a work-life balance. It's freaking me out to see so many comments saying, "Yeah, I need to learn how to be home in time to put my kids to bed."
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:26:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That is every salary job though. I get paid to work roughly 40 hours a week but most weeks I probably end up putting in 50-60+ hours. This isn't unique to teachers, it's part of being paid on salary rather than hourly
So nice to meet someone who understands this.
My "holidays" started in late December, but aside from a couple days out of town, even then they weren't long enough to finish marking all my exams before the new term started up. I still have a couple hundred left and they're all due next week - which would be doable if I didn't still have to teach and especially prepare classes.
I still want to punch people who ask what I do all day.
ASDMEL ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:33:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Both my parents were teachers. If you don't care what quality of work you deliver you have very little work outside of school (you prepare a lection once and then give it the next 20 years the same way), loads of holidays and a good salary.
If you're trying to do your job well it's different but if you wanna be lazy, teacher is the perfect job to do so.
Your information is decades out of date. We are rated, scored, watched, inspected. Recently, NYC installed microphones in EVERY room of my school, so a principal can listen without us knowing. The pace and the pressure are far more than when I was a kid in the 1970s and 80s. Now I'm a teacher. I was born to teach, but I assure you that no one in my school is coasting - just the opposite.
ASDMEL ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:10:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That might be true for your school, round here it isn't.
There is a teacher at the highschool I went to, that is mostly just giving the students some work, like "read this chapter", then goes to the cafeteria and drinks some coffee, reads a newspaper and comes back 5 minutes before the lesson is over.
It's great for everyone, the students have free time, he gives everyone good marks, he doesn't have to work and very few people really care about history as a subject anyway, so noone is missing something relevant for his future carreer and everyone is happy.
Also the "inpsections" are a total joke, they are announced so you can just prepare a halfway decent lesson for the inspection-time and be fiiine.
Mikazzi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:25:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Then you went to a highly unorthodox school.
tibsalot ยท 87 points ยท Posted at 13:47:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most people don't realize just how fast it wears on you. You will be super happy and ready, and great at the start. Give it a couple years. It'll start becoming quite difficult.
50% of teachers quit the profession in the first five years. I made it six, but only because I was finishing my masters degree to get a job that paid the bills.
It always amazes me how emotionally straining teaching was, and the drop out rate was also so high.
I entered university the same year as 2 close friends and after 8 years-- 4 undergrad, 4 years for graduate schools for multiple endorsements on my teaching licence my friends completed school too, the same year we finished school my 2 friends completed medical school/residency and in their first year they each earned more money then I would earn in the next 9 years while teaching. They had student loans comparable to mine too. The drop out rate for physicians is very low, most leave due to retirement and old age, rather then burn out.
Teaching and Medicine are both essential public services requiring similar levels of education, yet one pays 10-20x more annually and by all accounts is far less stressful (as measured by rates of licenced individuals still being in the career 10 years later.
Things need to change, quality teachers are scarse and many are lost to burn out and lack of fair pay yet their salaries stagnate and Doctors have unlimited earning potential and near non-existent burn out rates. At least my doctor friends let me use their boats, and beach houses on the lake.
Kebilo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:07:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They get paid more for much more hours and much more stress. That's my opinion as a teacher, albeit in Canada.
Both friends are full time Emergency Room Physicians who are required to work an average of 8-10 8hr shifts a month, one is at a large cit hospital and has no billing or off shift call (he teaches/supervises medical researche-toxicology studies) to reach a 44 hour work week, the grant supervision gets paid entirely independantly from his ER work through federal grants), the other Dr is in a small town hospital with the same number of monthly shifts but chooses to also moonlights as a coroner and has been on the hospitals board of directors as the Doctors representative (also paid above his usual salary).
Those are 80 hrs a month full time $270,000-$300,000 jobs-- with a voluntary second job to reach 40hrs a week and add 100k-200k in annual income.
Both have never been assaulted, had to restrain patients, put out a fire, or taken a weapon off a patient-- all of which my wife and I (former teachers have both done multiple times). Dr's have stress sure but if it's so stressful where is the high suicide rate, and high drop out rate?
Kebilo ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:58:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Its not the same for everybody.
Just like your friends seem to have the easiest physician job (because some are much much more stressful than what you just described) I'm on the lucky side of the teaching spectrum. Not stressful at all and really enjoyable.
I know that many teachers have it rough, and I dare say that doctors have it rougher. Then again, it's just an opinion, not ร fact.
Agreed. I know teachers who worked at the school with the knife attack recently (Franklin Regional) and that is an alright school district compared to others. I've routinely pulled guns, knives, etc. out of backpacks, I've been pushed down stairs by students, stapler thrown at my head (blood and concussion woooo) and bit more times than I care to recount and that was at "good" school districts.
I have starting subbing rather than full time teaching and I also starting teaching myself how to code, work SQL, and build up some data analytics skills. It is so fucking hard and I can barely make it through, but I am dying to get out because of the stress and anxiety coupled with no goddamn pay.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:31:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My high school broke a new English teacher, I feel bad about it in hindsight.
Not only teaching kids but having kids wears you out too. I know a set of identical twin brothers. One has two kids, one is a bachelor. The one with kids looks about 10 years older than the other. More wrinkles, more bags under the eyes.
I can attest, I teach 1 on 1 as a music teacher, so I imagine it's less stressful than teaching a whole class of kids. However, my job is completely based on how well I do. If students don't like me they quit and I make nothing. Whereas, at least where I live, even if the public school teacher is a horrible teacher, they cannot be fired because of the teachers union. Definitely does wear at you a bit though, staying upbeat and fun for 6-7 hours straight can get tiring.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:35:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When I was just an aide, I wasn't paid shit....Hell..even when I was finally qualified to teach I quit...I DEFINITELY wasn't paid enough to do that shit, I loved them...but no fucking way...couldn't do it anymore.
Rewarding experience? Yes. Could I live off of my wages? Absolutely not...especially while living in an expensive part of the U.S at the time.
My patience over the 5 years grew more and more thin as months rolled by, I finally had to put in my notice after 5 years. I cried my final week because I'd miss them (kids) so much...but getting treated so horribly by my boss, no raise, bad paychecks (not to mention not getting paid on time....ever) and having kids who loved you but didn't mind you very well really drove me to borderline alcoholism, I'm not even kidding. Especially when the boss changed the rules that the teachers and the aides could only take THREE DAYS vacation during the school year which caused many people to leave. It was hectic.
Working from 7 am to 5pm for ungrateful parents who didn't care about half of those kids really angered me, but I was glad I was there to care for them, glad someone cared about them for that period of time.
wjbc ยท 83 points ยท Posted at 15:13:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I'm teaching Sunday School and two teachers have trouble keeping 14 2d and 3rd grade kids interested and occupied for an hour. One teacher with 30+ kids all day five days a week? I can't even imagine, although I know my mother did it for years. I also know how hard she worked preparing for her classes.
And there was always at least one kid, often more than one, who kept her up at night, dreaming up ways to keep them occupied and out of trouble. And she taught at a fairly good suburban school, with parents who cared.
My sister taught middle school in a poor inner city Hispanic neighborhood, that was a much bigger challenge. Some of her parents didn't want their kids going to high school, let alone college, it was time for them to go to work, earn money. It's just a totally different mindset.
nkdeck07 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:05:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And there was always at least one kid, often more than one, who kept her up at night, dreaming up ways to keep them occupied and out of trouble. And she taught at a fairly good suburban school, with parents who cared.
This is my brother. He's teaching chemistry at a not well off urban school. It's really hard to try and convince a kid that this is important when she is 16 and pregnant and has no clue what to do.
My teacher finally got one disruptive class clown to behave by pushing his desk all the way to the front directly under the blackboard touching the wall. She did it out of desperation because she had another class clown at the back and putting them there together was a disaster.
Thise are the hardest ones - when the parents don't want the kids there. They wind up parroting the same bullshit.
"Education's just a waste of time"
"I'll just wind up in <family business> / on the dole / as a full-time housewife".
Yeah, I went to a high school where 99% of the kids cared and put 100% into school work. A few years later a friend was telling me her older sister, who went to the same high school as me, was teaching at an inner city high school and just couldn't comprehend why these kids didn't care. Her world experience was just so different than them.
Me and a friend did peer support for the new wave of year 7s, and we are having trouble finding things to occupy 5 kids between the two of us.
peppers_ ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:48:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Taught at community college for a semester, even the grown ones can often be immature.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:51:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I substitute teach. My first day was subbing a half day in elementary school.
I never went back. Teenagers are annoying, but at least they're independent. Elementary kids need constant attention all day Jesus Christ how do teachers do it?
For the life of me I can't understand people that up and start homeschooling on a whim. Especially when there is a religious aspect to it.
A kid that goes to pubilc school socializes, they learn how to solve social problems by themselves, they learn how to be around the opposite sex
they have teachers that have spent 20 years specializing in one particular topic and how best to teach children that topic, they've gone to all sorts of school themselves, and keep going back for more
the teachers understand child psychology,
sometimes they sit kids next to each other that they want to learn how to work together
they teach kids all sorts of things that a parent might not, like evolution, sex ed
the kid learns about other races and cultures and sexual orientations and how to get along with them
the kid has access to all sorts of resources a parent would never have access to, like a chemistry lab, and the staff in general and all their experiences
I'm sure this insults some, but if we are being honest with ourselves, no one person is equipped to do all this equally well or better. Nobody will ever convince me of that, and it just seems so insulting to teachers that people think they could do it.
eeo11 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:08:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I came here to say exactly this. Just managing a classroom is difficult. Now try to make them learn.
This is SO true! Millennials are particularly difficult because of their sense of entitlement and general apathy.. most really just don't seem to care
terradi ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:20:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Absolutely agreed. This is why I have an expired teacher's licence and currently work as a teacher's aide rather than as a teacher. Pay sucks, but I don't want that level of responsibility, scrutiny, and stress. I like my 8-3 job and don't want to trade it in for 60 hour weeks on ~30k (starting salary at my district) to teach in a high-poverty, high-stress situation where there isn't enough money to fix anything and I'm expected to buy all the supplies the district doesn't have the money to because it's dirt poor and desperate.
My teacher tried to convince me to get my certification renewed so I could take over the class. (He's leaving). Nope, nope, nope.
High-five! I'm also a former-teacher working as a para. :) Shit money but way less stress!
terradi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:27:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hurrah! Not alone!
Are you looking into other career options or are you happy where you are? I'm considering other jobs -- my district does not pay well, even though it's a big step up from food service (my previous job). Hard to imagine sticking around long enough to retire from what I do now.
I'm happy where I am--for now. My district pays well (for para pay) and my husband is in the military, so his job takes precedence. Once he gets out, we'll probably move again, which means time for a new job for me. I previously taught preschool at a private daycare center and loved it. I'm considering getting cross-endorsed for ECE. I'd like to see what preschool in a public school looks like, though. They'd certainly pay better than a daycare, but are the expectations on preschoolers and teachers as ridiculous in public schools as in the rest of the grades? I love, love love working with kids. But the pay is shit, unless you're a classroom teacher (even then, the money sucks compared to other professions). And the BS I see classroom teachers go through just doesn't seem worth it to me.
I can't imagine not working with kids, and I can't even think of what field/job I'd start looking into. On the other hand, making more money would be awesome.
aeolusa ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:47:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This. So much this.
You always get the same things: 'you get paid so much for only working 9 to 3', 'all primary school teachers do is play and colour all day, anyone could do that' or 'you get so many holidays' why do they complain about pay and conditions?!
I recently had a trip to hospital and both the doctors I saw said the same thing to me when they found out I was a primary school teacher; 'rather you than me, that is a difficult job.' They are sodding doctors, who have people's lives in there hands. Now that's a hard ass job.
Pupazz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:45:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Had a brief stint as a teacher, and it is by far the hardest part. Some will be a pleasure to teach, some will be indifferent. One or two will be a specially designed nightmare created to tax your patience and sanity.
Just escaped after a year and a half with high school science. To anyone wondering: No, it's not worth it. I mean teaching and designing lessons is fun, but... you don't spend much time on that.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:49:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teaching adults, too. I teach community college and sometimes when I tell people this, they say "oh, that seems like a great job! I'd love to get into that." But they say it like it's a hobby, like "I've always wanted to learn how to crochet." The academics, pedagogy, and class management aspects don't seem to register.
Tbjkbe ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:10:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes! I was hoping someone would say this! Now if only politicians realized this....
PanchDog ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:22:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's not hard to do it well enough to get by but it takes a lot to do it well.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:33:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I'm an Aide in a Primary non-severe Special-Ed classroom (SDC for you fellow aides and teachers) and we do table work with the kids. Since we have 15 kids, we split them into 3 groups of 5, and it is the aides responsibility to teach them in 2 of the groups. Even though we have the material there and an understanding of the topic, it's damn hard to teach them. The teacher, who is only 10 years older than I am, makes it look so easy.
What makes it hard is that you have micro-disruptions and for some reason they can't sit still or they blurt out questions. Then, you have these little shitheads who try to provoke other students, or another student who gets mad that he has to do work. Plus, we have a mix of 1-4 grade so we have to "dumb" it down and not use words that they don't understand. It's very taxing, and at the end of the day, you end up so tired, even though you don't do much physically.
Much respect to Teachers everywhere and especially Special Ed teachers who do this for a living. My current teacher I work for comes at 6am and leaves at 5pm and deals with parents who are in denial about their child's low IQ or Autism or whatever disorder they may have. I'm only there for the regular school time, and I'm just doing this to pay for college
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:12:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
After spending a day as an assistant for community service in high school, I respect teachers in young classes so much more. I was to just help all the papers were in order and some light organizing and I finally realized how we often counting and wrangling there really is. I was only 17 and this was years ago but I will always have a new respect for teachers dealing with 30 screaming children
zerbey ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:55:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My own 3 kids are more than enough, if I had a room full of 30 kids I'd go bananas before lunch time.
teaching people who aren't interested in learning in general
ghostyqt ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:37:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I teach swim lessons and man does that shit take some patience. Couldn't imagine teachers having 5-6 times as many kids and dealing with them for a whole school day rather than 30 minutes at a time.
And imagine like half of them have zero interest in swimming and like a third of them have a disability and need special assistance from you in order to get swimming basics. That's the classroom.
ghostyqt ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:42:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Don't have to imagine that when that's how it is lol
As someone with a bit of university experience, you'd surprised how similar the two are. Right up to PhD level, if you don't go out of your way to treat students like adults, they'll act like kids.
It's like organizing a birthday party for 20+ kids, of which only a fraction really want to attend and the party games are all focused around some weird hobby of yours that, after the party is over, every kid should have at least understood the basic principles of. Every. Working. Day. (also, everyone and their dog feels entitled to say how "their" birthday party would have been so much better, had they planned it instead of you, and how you're a lazy bastard because, apparently, you do nothing but throwing parties...)
I get it, everyone had their experiences with teachers; some were good, some were bad. And if you're laying your hopes and expectations for your offspring's future into the hands of a stranger, you tend to expect the best and fear for the worst. If your kid isn't a fast learner or has other problems, you hope the teacher will do his best to develope his or hers potential. If your kid is an over-achiever, you hope the teacher can spare enough time to introduce him or her to some more advanced concepts.
In a one-on-one situation, that would be no problem at all - we all went to university and studied our subject(s), had training and internships, reviews, more training... but in the classroom, we have up to thirty pupils of varying ability, and we somehow have to make sure that everyone can at least tag along with the required curriculum (and allthough it may have appeared like your teachers were the sovereign kings of their classroom, they were still held to reviews, standardized tests etc...)
Some of us excell, some of us burn out, some others give up. Myself, I dropped out and work as a tutor now. Half the documentation, a tenth of the group size, multiple times the liberties I had in the public school system (Also, a fraction of the pay, all things considered, but at least I'm happy now and satisfied with my work)
Came to say teach. "Those who can't do, teach" only sounds clever to those who have never taught. Just because we all had teachers at some point in our lives doesn't mean we have any idea how to successfully teach.
I had lunch at 4:30pm on Friday. Common occurrence. Frantic all day. Everybody wanted a piece of me. Came home with a headache.
Think how happy you are to send your kid back to school after a holiday. Now times it by 25.
But I love my job. I really do. Just sayin'.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:19:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Tried it. I had a degree and no idea what to do with it. So I decided on "why don't I teach?"
Wow, was I wrong. Holy shit. When we did a Meiers-Briggs test and they showed the results and only 4% of teachers were ISTJs like me, I thought "well, yeah but I'm smarter than them." (I have a tendency to be an asshole).
First semester of student teaching, which was limited to a couple of classes, on and off with the seasoned teacher, went... okay. I got through it. Second teaching semester where it was my ass to the wind, metaphorically speaking, where it was just me teaching nearly a full slate. I could not engage the kids, I hated every minute of it, meanwhile thinking "I could just get through this and i'll be a sub and use my free time to write." Eventually I couldn't take it anymore and I quit the program.
I accepted a tutoring job for five kids from ages 5-8, with absolutely no idea what the tutoring would be, and NO experience working with kids. I was given my materials about ten minutes before I met the kids.
I could barely keep them in the classroom, much less learning and growing. I still have nightmares about that and should have walked out that day.
jaehoony ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:44:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But most of my highschool teachers were fucking imbeciles.
Any professional space involving children in general. I can't count the amount of times as a childcare worker when people think they understand my work in ANY capacity because they used to be a fucking babysitter.
Volkar ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:15:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, it's my first year as a full time resident agronomy teacher (yay me !) and what's keeping me same is always ALWAYS having a backup plan/exercise/ lesson.
Also, I teach high schoolers and recently discovered the mighty power of detention hours. Wanna fuck with my lesson or exercise ? Fine, I'll fuck with your Thursday afternoon, you little shit ! Oh and guess what ?! I don't even have to show up for the detention ! The administration does that for me !
I tell EVERYONE that if you think teaching is easy and so well paid, go get your emergency certificate and go sub for a week. If they even last that, I will give my pay for a month. As a sub, I have to teach if I want to remain on the rosters with my districts and woo, scripted curriculum =[
Jumpy142 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:51:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I work with autistic kids, sometimes I almost go nuts and I am prepared.
I recently piloted a training program at work. I used to be a writing tutor and have attended plenty of training sessions similar to this at work. I also spent about a week preparing. It was very hard and challenging.
This was an hour long informal meeting where we discussed best practices for doing better work. How anyone could think teaching children all day long every day could be anything resembling easy I don't know.
My friend is a teacher, and his biggest area of struggle is relating to the kids/classroom management. He's improved since starting in August, but still is just uncomfortable I believe. I think it goes back to him not enjoying his time in high school and actually hating to the extend he's probably blocked it out of his mind. I think that makes him feel it's difficult to relate to the students, even though they're only 15 years younger than he is.
In a way, I feel I could do much better than him when it comes to relating to the kids and classroom management. To him arguing with the kids and telling them to sit down or stop talking or whatever is combative and unnatural. I'm someone who loves to argue and go back and forth with people, so I'd have no issue putting some student in his or her place. He's great when it comes to the actual instruction though, but at the same time I think I'd be a great history or civics teacher.
ba203 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:24:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh man, yeah. I worked in IT for eight years, then took a career break and taught english in Japan for 3 years. Holy shit, it's hard work! And running a 50 minute class is an artform, like a stage show that has to hit all the important plot points, and not run over or under time... And I was just an assistant teacher, I had the fun job, and I know for a fact that Japanese classrooms and students are worlds apart from what teachers face in the western world.
After my first year, I wanted to call up my high school teachers, apologise to and thank them.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:45:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am a writer and editor and people are always asking me "why don't you teach writing? You'd be good at it." What so many people don't realize is that you can be good at something but be absolute shit at explaining it well to others. I'm terrible at explaining things even to adults.
Seriously... My day job is in technology, but I like to volunteer at schools through junior achievement. You basically teach the class for the day with help from the teacher. It is exhausting. I usually go to sleep at like 8 that night. Or take a nap when I get home.
andyweir ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:24:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Actually teaching kids is really easy if you give into the system in which you teach. The difficulty is realizing that when you start teaching, you actually don't get to teach the way you want to
I was in a teaching program last year and basically every week was already mapped out by a school board. At first I thought we got to map out a little schedule for the curriculum but I was 100% wrong. There was something made by the board that told us what we needed to talk about, how long we needed to talk about it, how to test it, and what the kids should know by the end of the lesson. I thought it was just something they gave us because we were going to the program. It wasn't
It actually explained those staff days and all those teacher learning days. The teachers had to keep going over that schedule to make sure they were on track
So at the end, it kinda seemed like I was a puppet but as long as I did what the sheet said, it didn't really matter whether or not I thought the kids learned anything. If I followed the schedule and fit didn't work, I couldn't be blamed for it
So if you actually want to go in there and make a difference, then it's gonna be super hard because there's so much in place that makes sure a teacher can't actually do that
Or on the other end of the spectrum you're in a district that doesn't provide a textbook for GEOMETRY of all classes, and expects you to use terrible materials they scavenged from the web and collated. Bleh. I follow the same curriculum but make my own materials including pages for my students' notebooks so they have something closer to a textbook they can use.
PoSKiix ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:14:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That is definitely not true for all schools
tmmtx ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:19:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teaching adults, just as bad as children.
[deleted] ยท -25 points ยท Posted at 13:04:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am glad I have a kid free house. I do think that properly teaching your own child is something else than teaching a class. The evidence is all around us, the spoiled and screaming children are living proof.
I was a sports coach for a number of years. And coaching is teaching. Trying to teach your own kid to swing a bat, throw a ball, ski down a hill is basically impossible. You have to get a coach/instructor to do it for you. I've seen it every day for years.
Eh, i don't know about that. My dad coached basically all my youth teams, from soccer to basketball to baseball. He was a great coach for all of us, and I loved that he could show me even more when we got home from practice. And i knew more than most kids from day one because my dad had already taught me at home before real practices started. I was the captain of my high school teams my senior year so he must've done something right.
dpdews ยท 782 points ยท Posted at 14:58:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Run a Restaurant. I'm speaking from experience. You think you will just spend your time chatting with your friends while your cooks make your food and your FOH staff bring you wine. But restaurants require constant attention to operate properly. So maybe you can talk with your friends, if you've already put in your 100 hours that week, and all of your staff has shown up, and it's a slow period, and none of your equipment has exploded, and the health inspector isn't there, and you're not running out of romaine/5-dollar-bills/vodka, and the sinks aren't clogged, and nobody's cut themselves too badly, and there's no delivery occurring, and there's no drunk needing to be ejected, and none of your staff needs to talk to you about a day off/their petty squabbles/wanting to leave early, and, and, and, and, and, and...
*Edit - To clarify: I'm not restaurant employee bashing here; I've been one for twenty years. I'm saying people who believe running a restaurant is easy don't consider that staff management takes time.
Having spent most of my life working in restaurants I'm pretty sure the first step in owning a restaurant is knowing nothing about doing so.
Second step is to show up randomly, yell at everyone for 'doing it wrong', try to show them the way you think is right (it isn't), piss off the staff, make a mess of everything, get in the way, then go home thinking you did nothing wrong.
I lived with a chef for a few years (he was the head chef for about half of that) and the hatred they all had for the owner was intense.
I hated that fucker and I never even met him!
the general gist is that he refused to hire enough staff, constantly increased the opening hours and constantly said " It's cooking. My wife does it. It's not fucking difficult"
I have a huge amount of respect for chefs cos of my mate. I mean its standing in a room that is uncomfortable and can be dangerous for REALLY LONG shifts while still doing a task that requires a lot of skill and creativity... and theres X amount of people in the room too when the room is really only big enough for X-1 people
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:53:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not to mention the consistency. If chefs had the consistency that computer programmers have, they'd never find another job
Gibboni5 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:49:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I could never imagine what it feels like being in a small room surrounded by volcano level heat for 8 hours.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:21:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So, how did that whole selling into slavery fiasco go down? You apparently didn't murder your brother...
kallicks ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:00:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a Cook training to be a Chef there really is never enough staff in the kitchen.
I served at a pizza restaurant that was part of a small 4-location, family owned chain so I never saw the owner but the GM (who is good friends with the owner) was kind of a dick. One night during a rush I had two orders coming up at the same time that were going to two adjacent tables. I decided how I was going to run them and as I'm about to go to action the GM walks up, grabs one of the orders, and says "I'll take this one, you take that one". I said "don't worry, I got it" and he responds with, and I quote, "do what I fuckin' tell you to do" and walks off. I just stand at the line watching him because he runs them to the wrong table.
He was the kind of guy who tried to "help" everybody in the most alpha male way possible and in doing so was more prone to screwing things up.
beenusse ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:35:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Also live in a different city and only show up if you've slept in the restaurant because you were on the piss the night before
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:37:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm guessing on the piss is British for drunk?
vo5100 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:55:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nods I sometimes forget that Americans and British have been separated by a Massive Ocean for a few centuries and as such have cultural differences
This makes me really glad that the owners of the cafรฉ I currently work at both came from restaurant backgrounds and brought the chef from the hotel one worked at with them.
It makes for a much smoother work environment when the people running the show know what they're doing.
I've seen this so many times on TV that I'm glad I worked at the one restaurant that was different. Our owner would come in very rarely (monthly at most), talk to us like we're humans, compliment us on our pizza making techniques, and order his free VIP-discounted pizza. Then he'd just head out. Maybe it's because he always came during the after lunch slowdown. Maybe he's just levelheaded.
dpdews ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:43:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ha! I've worked for those guys, too. I've also worked for the guys who do know the right way and are happy to teach it. Like with most places, it depends on the people.
Degg19 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:08:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
this is exactly what my boss did. except he was also the cook 3 out of 7 days. his cooking was pretty good but he was such an up your ass douchebag.
Didn't you forget the part where a large group of your friends come in and you allow them to be comped for everything while they make a massive nuisance of themselves with special orders, amongst other things, and then tip nothing to your waitstaff?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:45:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Step 3, sit there and shove food in your face while everybody else is mad busy during a rush
This sounds like a wonderful career. Where do I sign up
Hax_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:06:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My aunt and uncle have opened 3 total restaurants and one just last November. My uncle lives down here (they live in another city where the other restaurant is) and works literally every day. He's had maybe 5 days off in the past 3 months, and then the other 6 months renovating the place to open. He opens at 5:30am and sometimes doesn't go home until 6pm on. He is constantly cooking and still training people. He goes to the store when we run out of food before an order is in and is all around the most hard working person I know. I'm grateful to have him as a boss because he actually knows what he's doing and isn't a flake like you're describing previous employers.
Dent18 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:43:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've watched so much Kitchen Nightmares that I'd never, ever, ever consider working anywhere near a restaurant
To be fair, you probably pay the servers less than minimum wage, and everybody else just over it if at all. They don't care about your problems either. Everybody has a life, they only work at your shitty restaurant to be paid.
Multiple restaurant owner, only fast casual units. I mention that because it means that we have no servers so we pay every single one of them way over the minimum wage. There's a reason why restaurant wages are set up in a way they are. Ask away what you want.
While servers may officially be paid less than minimum. They will always make at least minimum wage. It's my experience that servers make pretty damn good money for the work they do.
Gm at a restaurant with servers reporting in. Every single one of my servers makes nearly double what I make per hour, if you count cash and credit tips. If you only count credit tips, they all still make more than me.
I have one server who just bought a new Lexus. Paid for it all cash up front. Serving in some ways is the ultimate meritocracy in the food business.
This! Even just an assistant manager at a corporation has a ton of work. But I'm learning a lot and will have the skills eventually through running other businesses first.
Oh this, this so much I've spent some time working at my uncle's restaurant and boy oh boy the things that you need to watch out for.
Vomath ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:12:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So my dream when I retire is to open a tiny pizza takeaway spot in the mountains and mostly be a ski bum. I don't care if the pizza place makes money, I just want it to not lose money.
I know dick all about running a restaurant (but I do make a mighty fine pizza). How unrealistic is this plan?
soladeda ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:45:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
1/3 making pizzas, 2/3 running a business (paperwork, stock, cleaning, etc business stuff)
Throwing random percentages around, but a lot of it is running a business.
dpdews ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:02:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is 100% unrealistic. Ski locations have expensive rent and limited profit windows (ski season), but you will probably need to pay rent all year. So you need to be open, be busy, and be efficient during that time. If you close too much you won't make enough money. If you let somebody else run it they won't care enough to run it properly and/or steal from you. Don't do this. Sell anthropomorphic animal ski hats.
line6210 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:40:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I donno how I would be able to keep an employee if I owned a Restaurant, I would be firing people left and right for just missing work or showing up late.
therrrn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:50:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I came here to read this answer. I was seriously expecting it to be at the top of the list and was absolutely baffled when I saw it wasn't.
Oh... You meant run a profitable restaurant. Yeah that takes a fuck ton of work and a good amount of people accepting that you're an asshole at work but a good person in all other aspects.
If you're a shitty person, you can't make a restaurant work. It takes to much respect and trust from your employees.
Excuse me sir but I think I've watched kitchen nightmares enough to know how to run a successful restaurant. All I need is fresh ingredients, a fire under my ass, and rustic. I'm still trying to get the hang of what rustic means but I know having rustic is essential
Aren't the statistics that something like 80% of new restaurants fail in the first 5 years?
In addition to all the stuff you listed, planning the restaurant is a lot of work. You need a good location, good menu, all that stuff. Most of the restaurants on Kitchen Nightmares end up failing after the show. You have a sucky restaurant that's failing due to poor management and dumb ideas. Ramsey comes in to give them a good menu, train the staff, and change the decor, but all of that stuff doesn't matter when there's bad management. They'll mess up all of the stuff he fixed and continue with other problems.
College roommate's father has 2 restaurants. The guy was (is, he is still going strong) a machine. Works 7 days a week, sleeping a max of 5 hours a night, for 20+ years and absolutely loving it.
As a student health inspector... just knowing the requirements a health authority demands before you can even open is enough to turn me off of running a restaurant.
nyvz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:30:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I thought this would be so much farther up, but came hear to say this too.
Abstruse ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:37:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How to Own a Successful Restaurant Step One:
Hire an expert to manage the place so you don't fuck it up.
bubongo ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:44:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do you know how to make a small fortune? I'll tell you, it's easy. Start with a large fortune and then open a restaurant.
You said it at the end in pretty much one of the key points to running a successful restaurant. Employee management.
Everything else will come if you have good, well taken care of employees. Your food will be great, service will be great, clogs and things will be manageable because you have employees taking care of the place.
Time and time again I see restaurants fail with owners trying to improve on specific aspects, when they fail to see that yeah, sure Bobby Employee shows up everyday, but he's simply not that great. Get rid of him and hire someone who can do both.
moyno85 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:26:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
none of your staff needs to talk to you about a day off/their petty squabbles/wanting to leave early
It sounds like you are the typical restaurant manager / owner that overworks and underpays their staff, then ends up with bad employees and many employees that don't give a fuck.
You get what you pay for. And your employees give you as much professionalism and respect as you show them, both financially and otherwise.
dpdews ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:36:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know that paying people better, keeping their hours manageable (for them), and showing them respect as earned does lessen those problems, because that's what I did. Unfortunately, this does not eliminate those problems. There will always be staff who care and staff who don't. Sometimes the latitude you offer staff is rewarded with loyalty and other times you are faced with habitual lateness, theft, belligerence, vandalism, and "employees that don't give a -".
It would be a lot easier to run a restaurant if all the people in it were as professional as can be. That's not the typical case, unfortunately. This goes to the whole point of the original question: Everyone thinks they can run a restaurant, but unless you've done it you cannot understand the difficulties.
This is 100% correct. You can provide great wages and be super respectful but even the best employees can cause problems. Yes one employee may only cause a minor problem here and there but when you have a bunch of employees then it all adds up. Then you sometimes people giving shit for "hardly having to work" because you aren't there for 8 hours a day like they are. They don't realize that youre out paying the bills, getting inventory, updating licenses, going to state required training, learning new laws, dealing with frivolous lawsuits, and so many other things. Like you said you can't know what running a restaurant is like until you have done it.
Mojo_666 ยท 920 points ยท Posted at 13:32:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
IT, there are so many amateurs working in the field who know how a home computer works but has not the first clue about corporate level IT.
eatonsht ยท 107 points ยท Posted at 16:33:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd like to follow that up with the amount of people who lie on their resumes to get a job and end up sitting there doing nothing after they get hired. This is the main reason I quit the industry entirely. Anyone can say they know how to program/admin and there are few checks and balances to ensure quality. To top it off you have business grad management who aren't tech savvy that make hires based on their gut, then won't fire because it would make them look bad. Fuck IT I don't miss you at all
You left the IT trade because there were too many under qualified people?
I agree that it is somewhat a problem, but you just need to work hard at outlining their shortcomings.
I used to work on a team with 3 other guys that were all very underqualified, and had no experience with the software we were using. Our boss didn't want to fire anyone, he wanted me to train and develop them.
Not being able to keep up with the work, and having no time to train anyone, I eventually just wrote a formal business letter to my boss and his boss outlining how much work was not getting done, and that I wanted them fired and permission to hire 1 qualified person.
My boss's boss loved the idea of saving money, and I was allowed to personally hire a partner. We both receive a nice biannual bonus if we keep ahead of our work.
Basically you need to be a cutthroat snitch, and you need to appeal to your businesses desire to get stuff done.
eatonsht ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:55:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My boss was too busy kissing his bosses ass to notice what was happening on the team. When we interviewed several potential new candidates my coworker and I, who are the two that completed most of the work, were asked to sit in and provide recommendations. Of the four new hires he made, we recommended against hiring three of them and for hiring one of them. The three we recommended against turned out to be a disaster.
Everything you said assumes you have a reasonable and competent manager. During my 10 year career I only managed to find one qualified manager and the rest were absolutely deplorable. I have so many many stories from my time in the industry. Everything boils down to office politics in the end
Maoman1 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:50:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You really shouldn't direct your negativity to IT. Instead of saying "Fuck IT I don't miss you at all," you should instead think of that specific job as shitty and say "Fuck that boss and those coworkers I don't miss you at all." IT with a good boss and team is as pleasant as any other job with a good boss and team, assuming you like the actual job itself.
eatonsht ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:31:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Naw man I had 8 different jobs and they all blew. It is full of a bunch of amateurs who don't know what they are doing.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 02:46:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
eatonsht ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 04:16:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm in a better place now. It's all water under the bridge and happy trails these days.
Brakamow ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:43:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What do you do now?
eatonsht ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 04:44:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
not the best idea to give to people. for every situation where one person is stuck with under-qualified employees, there are five more where someone only thinks everyone else is unqualified, because they're too ignorant to realize they're in the same boat.. and you end up with people trying to get each other fired, causing management to just stop listening and you'll never end up getting anyone competent
Thats why you come up with a business plan, make it sound professional, and make sure it makes sense.
You don't even have to go as far as that. You can just do your best to make sure the shortcomings, and errors of others are more noticed. Just make sure that everything they do wrong sticks out like a sore thumb.
Every teacher talks about IT burnout. We never believe them and assume they became teachers because they couldnt hack it in the real world.
Most the people I graduated with are about one failed ping away from anervous breakdown. Shit gets heavy. And dont get me started on the hours...
marchmay ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:47:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Please tell me how to lie on my resume to get these people's jobs. I'm a mechanical engineer but I can do at least as much as the entry level data analyst.
eatonsht ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:32:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The only guy we recommended for a job was a former mechanical engineer. He was really good. I would hire another one if I could.
Gibboni5 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:55:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everybody has been beating on me for years that this is hard and difficult fuck that, this is what i truly want to do with my life no matter how wrenching it is
Waxgains ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:40:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fuck IT could be on a shirt.
SteveJEO ยท 358 points ยท Posted at 14:48:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yup.
I'd go so far as to say most of them don't even know how a home computer works. They're consumers with too much information.
Using firefox and reading shit about linux does not make you a 'pro'.
"Hey, Joan, I figured out my Firefox problem. I'm not in the 'sudoers file'. Could you put me in that and let me know when you're finished? Thx."
"I'm not going to do that for you Bill"
"Why not?!"
"Well, for one thing, your workstation is running Windows."
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 22:06:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
User: "I am a linux expert"
Me: "Oh yeah? What distros are your favorite"
User: "I run Linux on my desktop"
Me: "OK, what is the desktop you use? I like Gnome, but KDE is cool".
User: "You don't know crap about Linux, the desktop is a Dell. Who would by a PC named gnome and you are making up KDE"
Me "Oh, I see, I bet you use Unity"
User: "I thought you were an expert? I already said I use Linux, it is made by Ubuntu, not Unity, duh. It is so easy, just like windows 7. I don't know why you tech engineers make so much when all you have to do is click on things."
I had a boss who's in house app required the user have domain admin rights to run it. It was all fun and games until one of the HR people accidentally deleted the entire company from Active Directory.
rawfodog ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 20:59:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh my god. How big was the company, and how long did it take you all to reconcile that??
270 people. I can't honestly remember what we did to fix it but it took all day.
So basically my boss was insane (I have many stories) but here is the story behind this one.
The boss (head of IT) had this crazy program that ran directly on the server (he saw desktops and laptops as "toys" and said they could not handle business software) so people had to log into the server via terminal services to use it. The server just so happen to also be the domain controller. If I'm not mistaken, only domain admins can remote into those (at least that's what he said...) The program did a lot of contract tracking, that was its main purpose. But there was another part that handled adding and removing people from distribution lists.
One day an HR person wanted to remove one of the distribution lists. This list had practically everyone in the company on it. So she went to the list and hit delete. But it said she had to remove all of the people first. So she selected all of the people and hit delete. Then, suddenly everyone was locked out of their desktops.
So "delete" in the distribution list management program apparently deletes the person from active directory, as I learned when my boss was yelling at the HR person later. What she wanted was "remove from distribution list" which was in a submenu. I asked why the hell he would include that menu item in a distribution list program and not have any warning and he told me "warnings are for sissies. When you're at war, the enemy doesn't warn you that he is about to fire."
I no longer work there. But I'm glad I did. Just for my crazy boss stories.
PaulTagg ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 05:48:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
oh... I'm not there? whoops
rawfodog ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:50:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Jesus christ. And that dude is the department HEAD.. how can he even yell at the HR person for messing that up. He/she shouldn't even come close to that kind of allowance good lord
I laughed.....and laughed and laughed.....for like 5 minutes straight at this. That is truly awful.
I'm going to get big posters of It's all fun and games until someone deletes the company from Active Directory printed up for around the office.
grepnork ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 22:33:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I went into a company in the mid 2000s to rebuild their crappy dreamweaver website into something sharp.
After and hour so of looking over the code I realised their HR database (complete with full names, social security numbers, home addresses, salary details etc) was connected to their website in order to display a staff directory, and that it connected via the SQL superuser. No one in IT gave a damn until I mentioned what their salaries were.
Well why would we bother with minimal permissions to things when it means having to put in actual work? Just give us access to everything!
Source: Am a software developer at a security company. We know all about the value of using minimally permissioned accounts, but by god is it tempting to just use the same user to create all the tables etc. as we use to do the normal app-use.
Oh hell no.... I'm an in house developer for my company and I make damn sure nothing uses admin or Sa accounts. I sure that In the event we wake up tomorrow and the servers have caught fire there's no way any of the higher ups (who don't understand) can say "that program you wrote did this!"
SteveJEO ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 18:46:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
On thursday I was told to give a 12 core 3.5Ghz machine with 256 GB ram and SSD's (and cluster admin) to a dev because 'his single thread 32 bit java app' was too slow and 'it's politics'.
If I had that computer it would be like Cameron's dad Ferrari. I wouldn't use it I would just look at it and rub the case with diapers. And I honesty can't think of any reason a single user would need more than 8 cores and 32 GB of ram.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:32:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
It'll be some time untill we laugh at 32gb of ram when my laptop my high school gave me has 4gb and you can buy most phones with 16gb of storage let alone ram.
Heimdahl ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:36:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not really a single user as noone would create that on it's own, but you could say that a mad engineer, who basically loads up a complete cad modell of anything big, could bring 32GB of RAM to it's knees pretty fast.
all the adobe stuff could bring 32GB down pretty quick as well. Just from my experience but I never knew how CAD was with RAM.
Eladriol ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:01:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
12 core 3.5Ghz machine
256 GB ram
single thread 32 bit java app
Is that as stupid as I think it is?
SteveJEO ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:25:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yup.
He'll get to keep it too. I fucking know he'll bitch to keep the machine and management will cave cos his shit code will look faster.
Eladriol ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:33:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is there not scope for accidentally giving him only 8GB of ram and seeing if he ever notices the difference? I'm sure if the casing has stripes and "military grade" all over it it'll be fine.
Also how the fuck is a developer unaware of what 32 bit means, when python gave me a memory error for exactly that reason it took me exactly 2 minutes to google the freaking problem lol.
SteveJEO ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:54:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
unaware of what 32 bit means,
I'll give you a quote here.
"Servers aren't my responsibility"
My last budget request included a quote for 2 gallons of petrol.
Jeez. It's a pain in the ass, but before I give out API credentials I make sure they have their own postgres user with both column and row level security that directly maps to their API route access model. Security is a whore, a whore that might save your ass someday.
Huh, interesting. But why don't I need to authenticate a ping when running it as a regular user? Does it auto-execute as root without asking for authentication?
Exactly. Each command having the 's' flag set and having 'root' as the owner will run with sudo rights automatically. It is therefore very important that these commands don't have any exploitable bugs which could run arbitrary code in them. As you can imagine, this is only used for very few commands such as ping and sudo (how else would sudo give a user root rights?).
At the the university I studied last year the administrators had set an apt update command as being executable by a normal user with root rights, thinking everyone should be able to install updates. We exploited a 'bug' in apt (though apt is never supposed to be used this way!) which would span a root shell.. fun times.
Wow, learned something new, thanks! And I was thinking particularly about possible exploits, although I guess the ping-routine has been checked time and time again.
With apt as root, wouldn't you be potentially able to add any repository (i.e. your own), install any software from there (rootkit?) and take over the system completely?
It wasn't really a bug in apt-get (that's why I surrounded it with quotation marks), as apt-get is never supposed to be run by ordinary users as root. I don't have the exact method at hand (lost in my student mailbox I don't have access to anymore), but it was something along the lines of:
Selecting a custom configuration file using the APT_CONFIG environment variable.
Setting a 'post-install' script, and letting it run a shell.
Because all scripts in packages are run as root, this dropped us to a root shell..
Amj161 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:49:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you're currently at that stage and trying to learn Linux, what would you suggest to learn more to get better at IT stuff?
SteveJEO ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:09:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
*Nix is just an OS.
You need to understand why the OS behaves the way it does and the layers of abstraction.
A computer is just a calculator with better memory and some big assed storage. Os's just instruct the calculator. It's not magic.
If you're really interested grab yourself an old 386/486 machine or something and run dos or 1.1 kernel or something.
Amj161 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:44:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Alright, thanks for the input and I'll look into that
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:39:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Amj161 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:50:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wow, that's a lot of info! I'm right now working my way slowly through java, I'm working on understanding interfaces now. I think once I have a better grasp on java I'll move over to C++ (I've already learned HTML and bits and pieces of JavaScript and Python).
I'm playing around with Ubuntu, I tried installing Kali that way I would just be going head first into uncharted waters but there's an error I consistently would get when installing it on my laptop. I'm also running Kali on my laptop, playing around with getting into my home WiFi but I can't really figure it out and googling hacking tips seems like a little bit of a bad idea...
Making an OS seems pretty cool and hard, so I'll definitely look into that
I've played around with virtual machines a little bit before, but not much.
I think mainly I'm just looking at learning how to program so I can make my Raspberry Pi do cool things like I hear about a lot of people doing, networking stuff and some hacking stuff. I'm pretty good on the hardware side of things so I'm just curious about learning about the software side
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:10:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Amj161 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:04:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How would I avoid bad JavaScript or C++ habits?
I've always been tempted to get a VPN but haven't, might want to now. I have a burner laptop that's not Lenovo so I'm good there.
What's the benefit of using Debian or CentOs?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:15:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Amj161 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:51:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Alright, that makes sense.
Thanks again for all the help, I'll definitely check all this out!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:11:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
SteveJEO ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:05:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
All it takes to show me how computer illiterate I am is to read these threads on Reddit. Two comments in and I have no idea what you guys are talking about.
Because setting exposure is sooooooo much harder than debugging a TLS/SSL handshake failure with wireshark. Comparing photography with real IT show you know nothing about IT.
_FranklY ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 19:27:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously? Photography is more than just "setting exposure", it's art, IT, either works or you fucked up
You can't just call something art and it becomes something that requires skill to make. How does a system working or not working mean that the field isn't hard or complex?
This is art too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ. Art is subjective. Just because something is art doesn't mean it is complex or requires skill. Just like pissing in a jar or sitting on a toilet
[deleted] ยท -24 points ยท Posted at 15:19:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Using Firefox makes you a fuccboi and Linux makes you a 4channer.
EVILEMU ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:42:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Are you intentionally trying to perpetuate the stereotype here lol?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:14:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Holy shit, all these down votes for making a joke. Yes, I am trying to perpetuate a stereotype, and yes, it is a joke.
EVILEMU ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:41:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Problem with this is how the fuck do you become a "professional" in IT without experience? College courses are either completely unrelated and most certs will still leave you lacking in that real world experience you need to know shit about corporate level IT.
Source: Worked in outsourced IT, for one week I was the IT department for over 20 companies at once, so I know what a cluster-fuck corporate level IT can be.
EDIT: When I say I was the IT department, I mean that literally, nobody else was in the office for that week, quitting felt unbelievably good.
RulerOf ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:24:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You get experience by being on a help desk that lets you work your way into projects where you pick up more skills.
Anyone who meets the stereotype of "good with computers" can swap a keyboard or set up a workstation so that the seasoned IT pros don't have to. Then when you're not doing that, you help the more experienced guys do their work and learn something along the way.
This isn't something that you can do at every company, either. It takes the right kind of organization to leave room for a help desk jockey to have downtime between tickets. I'm just sharing no what worked for me.
Maoman1 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:52:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What exactly do you look for the find such a job? I've been looking to change careers and seriously considering IT. An entry level job like you describe - setting up workstations and swapping hardware while still being allowed to tag along on more complicated jobs just to learn - is precisely what I'd consider an ideal beginning job. It's similar to how I learned my current job, an auto locksmith. I rode along with a much more experienced driver and unlocked cars but got to watch and ask questions while he did more complex stuff like picked house locks, replaced lost car keys, and repaired or replaced veh ignitions.
RulerOf ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:13:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What exactly do you look for the find such a job? I've been looking to change careers and seriously considering IT. An entry level job like you describe - setting up workstations and swapping hardware while still being allowed to tag along on more complicated jobs just to learn - is precisely what I'd consider an ideal beginning job.
My first foray into enterprise IT was working for a callcenter. They have a lot of computers but not necessarily a lot of users that you support directly, which limited ticket volume.
A similar environment would be a larger school district. The biggest set of users (students) wouldn't be submitting tickets directly, but you'll still be working at a scale that facilitates expanding your skill set, and there will be a pretty big budget that will allow for interesting project work.
Stay away from small business, at least if you want to acquire new skills. That stuff is almost entirely maintenance. Somewhere with 100-300 machines (at least for which you are responsible) is probably the sweet spot. And the pay will probably suck. :P
wumbo105 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:16:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can confirm. Graduated with my IT degree a few months ago. Am now an IT director at a local high school and have learned more in my first 3 weeks than in my whole 4 years of college.
There wasn't much in those classes that I didn't already know from background knowledge of being a lifelong computer guy.
First I reformatted my home computer. Then I built one from scratch. Then I shared a printer and connected it. Then I set up a dedicated file server. Then I reformatted the file server from a desktop OS to a server OS. On and on. I learned about routing tables, group policies, exchange administration, and more from setting things up on home computers. It takes time and money - but old hardware is often good enough for learning purposes. My domain controller (with Windows 2000) was a Pentium Pro 200 mhz. It was slow but it let me learn. There's a lot you can teach yourself if you're willing to mess around.
As someone struggling with impostor-syndrome as I'm studying to get into IT.. this makes me feel more confident about the skills I have. Thanks!
twillerd ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 17:30:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
18 year old with my first day of contract IT work monday. I know my shit, but i know how much i dont know, so i feel exactly like that
Mojo_666 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 19:42:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know my shit, but i know how much i dont know.
If you said that in an interview with me you would probably be hired, just remember you said this, it won't ever change.
MsKim ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:59:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
To be fair, especially in small businesses, the manager or owner usually picks the nerdiest guy in the office and says "hey can you fix this router for me". Pretty soon that guy becomes the de facto IT person even though he has only picked up his skills on Google.
At what point do you consider someone a "pro"? Several certificates? In addition to at least 2 years of school? I have all that but not sure I would consider myself a "pro". If I relearned SQL and learned how to batch code maybe. My networking knowledge is also rusty.
This is an issue in IT in general I think. Some people are experts in a single area and make a living off that, others are highly knowledge (but not experts) in a large variety of areas and make a living as a more "jack of all trades".
Really I think all that is important is being honest with yourself about your skill set and trying to find opportunities where you can leverage it well.
When I look at a lot of IT job listings though, it seems to rattle off the entire can of alphabet soup that you need proficiency in. I think some of it is HR's fault for writing jobs like you need to have every language under the sun and the actual skills or proficiency needed is not even highlighted or mentioned.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:15:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's my experience that the Jack of All Trades guys thrive in small environments where people need a superman, but in large places they can't hang because everyone knows a little bit about stuff, but they all have deep-dive specialization.
I completely agree, with the small caveat that even in large corporations, specific groups can be very isolated from the "core operations" and thus go back to requiring more generalized people.
Having said that, all my experience is in the telecom side of things, and it may be very different in other portions of the tech world.
I've saved our company millions by telling the IT guys what is wrong with the system.
Everyone's computers slowing down randomly including taking 30 mins to log in? IT deny everything. I traced it to the windows update bug that fires up several times a days and emailed them with the solution bcc'ing a bunch of unhappy users. Suddenly it all works, oh how did that happen?
When you have only 3 IT guys for 300 people, they aren't that interested in getting to the bottom of the problem.
When you have 3 IT for 300 people and have any complexity in your environment, the IT guys are lucky to have 5 minutes to get a coffee.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:23:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
IT Service Desk Supervisor here. I can't even guess how many interviews I've had where someone claims to have experience, and when I drill down with questions to find out more, it's clear that they think they can do IT work because "They like putting their PC together."
Them :"Can you install the new X, I did at home, and it works better"
Me:"um, can you ask me when I'm not at the urinal?"
"I'm pretty sure your stuff won't worry with y & z, or other versions of X"
" And I'm pretty sure we need to get new licenses"
Them : "we just use my license for everyone, just upgrade y&z then, it's not that hard"
That doesn't necessarily mean they are unqualified. You don't need to know everything. A professional knows how to look something up and figure it out. A solid understanding of the basics and the ability to understand something new is the key to being a good IT professional or software engineer. Critical thinking skills. Someone who knows what they know, but can't figure out shit about what they don't already know is useless. If I hear someone say, "I don't know how to do that", I know where they stand. Someone who hits Google to learn = gold.
I taught started teaching VMware last semester and that's something I tried to make sure my students knew. You don't need to remember specifically how to enable jumbo frames or to create and combine extents of vmfs3 partitions or flags to set to allow these two processors to smoothly vmotion.
You need to know those things exist and the theory behind them though. Once you know they are there and what they do, Google can help you from there on how to set them up.
I'm saying most IT issues can be solved by using google. Many IT places use google because they don't know how to solve it themselves. Fake it til you make it.
In my experience, most IT issues persist because nobody tells IT about them. They just work around it for years until someone says: "Your process is madness", generally why people hate those 'consultants', but they do serve a purpose, they can take someone's role and break down what they are actually doing, figure out why it's taking them so long to do something which should be trivially solved with a few keystrokes but the user has resisted learning or has never been made aware of the feature. It's a common failing in software that the documentation wasn't written or wasn't written well so nobody can understand how to use it except the person who made it.. Hmm, went into one. Point is, people who aren't in IT can't even recognize most IT issues, wouldn't know how to start looking for the answer, or even that it is fixable.
I'm generally only googling to get the correct syntax to obtuse command line parameters.. Or to figure out what the differences are between the billion Intel chips that came out last quarter, to see which one represents the best value for our CAD engineers.. Frustrating stuff. Of course, often you'll be able to query something in front of a user and they can read the answer themselves: "how to open XML in libreoffice calc"... I'm not memorising the menu placement of a shit tonne of programs. That's what references are for, and buy searching, I'm showing the user how to use the reference, win win!
tl;dr: Google good, other words.
Mojo_666 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:43:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Google is awesome, it will give you specific solutions to specific problems, google is the go to for an IT pro without a doubt. However (and here is the rub), specific solutions to specific problems is a tiny % of IT, the real trick with IT is solving the problems so specific to your environment that they wonโt be documented until you write the document. IT is about how things will look in 5 yearsโ time, IT is about understanding who and what you work for, you work for a business, if you donโt know or understand what they need or want youโre useless.
Can you help me with a few questions? Im not sure if you work in the field but, I have a degree in administrative management with a minor in computer sciences abs networking. Would a project manager or department manager for IT need a large knowledge of the intricate details of the networking and wire? Or would he/she be fine without it?
I'm a CS major and the further I've gotten in my degree, the less I feel like I know. My classmates all seem to be able to talk about all this other stuff that i'm clueless about. Part of my brain says they're full of shit, the other part thinks they actually know that and i'm woefully inadequate.
Guess i'll see where I really stand once I graduate and get a full time job @_@
I work AV at a hotel that doesn't have on-site IT so a lot of network problems come to me. I have enough knowledge to either "fix" the problem or know who to call if I can't but if someone refers to me as IT I immediately correct them. It's kind of out of liability to myself, I just want it to be absolutely clear that I'm willing to help but I am in no way an IT professional.
Oh god, you found me. My company takes all info sys grads and has them work help desk prior to moving out into a development team. I'm so lost when it comes to the infrastructure side of things. Uhh so the LAN team is totally separate from the networking team and I get what a server is but what's the mainframe again??
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:37:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
On a related field that is not the same, even though people often confuse them (and they do crossover), not anyone can be a good programmer
Yes, anyone can learn a bit of front-end web dev, learning the syntax of a language is really very easy, but learning to program well is not something everyone can do, and there's quite a wide distribution in 'natural talent' for it (this topic comes up and causes a fight in /r/programming about every 6 weeks). Furthermore, while some programming jobs only do only need someone good at logical thinking and who can self-teaching themselves language x, some jobs really probably do need someone with a CS degree, or a dedicated autodidact who has taught themselves the equivalent
There seems to be a lot of people on the internet who think that CS == SoftEng, therefore because they're good at Python (and often, they genuinely are good software engineers), they have equivalent knowledge to a CS degree, ignoring all the additional maths which they likely weren't even aware of in their self-teaching. The sort of problems this can lead to is beautiful implementations, of an algorithm inappropriate for the task at hand because they'd dismissed big-O as 'useless academics'
"IT is just being paid to google" no bitch it's not!
Mojo_666 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:41:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You can't even quote the right person?
Muchoz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:03:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Or those people who do it for the money and don't give a crap about their code.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:04:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have a B-I-L that is the head of IT for a major union. He has a crew of 5 guys including himself. Those 5 guys do a better job in less time than the entirety of the company I am with, that has an IT department of 58.
Mojo_666 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:11:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As far as IT goes then your company is shit, lower than shit probably , they probably think they are cool because iPhone.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:17:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
~8,000 mother fuckers rockin droids, s5 and Note4 to be exact. I'm not in IT, I'm just one of the poor sons of bitches that is forced to beta their bullshit while somehow maintaining interface with the system. Our entire system is intranet dependent while ~40% of our workforce has no direct access, and is forced to use a fucked up SSO proxy.
"How hard can it be to just change that tiny table?"
If you fucking think turning a table into a ajax powered multiple tab and page portal is 'simple' you fucking do it.
I'm sick of people telling me how easy things are, and its worse if you tell them it's easy and they somehow hear "It takes 5 minutes". Motherfucker I said it was easy, not quick.
My lastest one: it takes the company 25 days total to complete a normal lead-gen site. From concept > design > templating > development > QA/snagging > client training to finally live, and all meetings inbetween. Yet somehow my sales boss thinks big complex ecommerce sites take less time and then on top of that sells them at a discount? Fucking makes me wonder so it does.
Yeah my parents keep saying I should go into IT and I would no fucking idea what to do, I can google an error code and know the parts of a computer. You ask me to run a server farm or some shit like that you are liable to end up with me hiding under my desk because the server started making a buzzing noise.
Even having an IT education won't necessarily help you out. I graduated in May and have been working in a small company as a software developer for 10 months. An older guy who I went to school with used me as a reference and has been with us for 3 months. He doesn't even understand basic code, like SQL select statements. I gave him a web utility with formatting issues to debug and he wouldn't touch it because he didn't want to break it and didn't understand how the code worked together. Like, bitch... That's what I pay you for!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:05:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Internet IT professionals that don't know what a Domain is make me laugh. Fixing peoples personal computers and fixing every computer an enterprise has are skills with less overlap than you would think. A+ exams do not prepare you to do anything but fix a laser printer and run a computer repair shop for personal computers.
rakoflo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:19:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How hard can it be? Just update adobe reader, and install Ultron.
Or the ones that assume that just because you can program the embedded chips on servers that you have a clue about how corporate level IT works. Ask me about how a I2C bus addressing works and I can answer. But ask me about how to setup the corporate email administrative rights? Not a clue.
I'm working on a computer support degree currently, and most of it is learning how to use office and some basic coding and whatnot. Along with customer service.
It makes me feel like a fraud and I'm worried I'll end up just like this. Do you have any advice? Because I love the idea of IT, and I'm good with computers, I just don't want to be incompetent.
Alexmaca ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:32:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just install Adobe Reader, it works!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:12:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fixing computers is easy just download adobe reader
MpVpRb ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:18:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
amateurs working in the field who know how a home computer works
VERY few actually know how a computer works
Start with semiconductor physics and quantum theory. Then study digital logic. Then assembly language. Then high level languages and operating systems. Then networking..I did this over a 40+ year career..and I can't confidently say I know everything about how computers work
I somehow feel that IT does not really need to know quantum physics to do their job. Everything else, yes.
MpVpRb ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:30:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Agreed
I was specifically commenting on knowing how computers work
tmmtx ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:25:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh gods, I worked in tech support for 15 years and I'm still lost when IT just pulls out some random fucking batch script, runs it with three flags and all of a sudden shit works again. I'm great at teaching people IT skills and concepts, but I am no IT guru.
Yup. I speak three languages, the two other than English to a fluent conversational level.
Translation/interpretation is fucking hard. I can understand what people are saying, but putting it into English? Impossible. The nuances of language are so hard to explain to non-speakers.
I recall trying to explain 'bitchiness' to a German girl once, because she kept using it to mean 'slutty'. Most native speakers of English just know what that means, but explaining the difference between spiteful, rude, gossipy, petty and the precise combination that could be described as 'bitchy' in some contexts is really hard. It's like describing Red to a blind man.
koalag ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 00:39:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes! "Bitch" is such a difficult word to translate. I live in a non-English speaking country, and my friends used to use "bitch" to mean "slut" or "prostitute" all the time, but when I tried to explain what it actually means, I'm just like, "Well, it's like a mean girl, who's also prideful, but..."
I think it's also interesting how it is a swear word directed towards women that has no implication of sexual morality (at least not in modern usage.) Not a lot of languages have words like that! Across all languages, swear words for women are almost always different and unique ways to call a girl a slut.
That realization actually made me fall in love with the word "bitch" a little bit.
cirajela ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:10:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Huh, I've never thought of it like that...it never even occurred to me that almost all female-specific insult words are sexual.
I suppose 'cunt' falls into the 'bitch' category as well, seeing as despite it being literally a woman's sex organ, it's not really used as a sexual insult?
Also, bitch goes back to female dogs, usually used for breeding. So I suppose it also stems back to being sexual.
As a bilingual this is how I view the languages in my head: Imagine two cliffs. Each is a different language. As a bilingual, I can jump from one side of the cliff to the other with no difficulty, because I learned to jump. However a translator built a bridge. Several of them, and sees the connections between the two languages. And this is why I suck at translating.
This is normal. The problem is that it seems people do not realize this is normal. They think, "Bob knows French and English; he can translate for us." Probably true when looking at a sign or something brief in print. It'll take a moment, but he can translate it for you. Simultaneous translation, though, is a whole other matter and a very special and specific skill.
Yep. I speak fluent Spanish. It's dirty and nasty and I learned it in kitchens, food pantrys and landscaping. I took some classes in highschool to help me understand the language better. But I can't translate between English (native) and Spanish worth a damn. They exist as two totally different thought processes in my head.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:56:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It gets especially difficult when the languages are from different branches. I speak Hebrew and English and they're not even remotely close in anything
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:25:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 00:17:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's fairly easy to convey the gist of something if you speak both languages fluently but to actually translate from English to Hebrew and vice versa without losing a lot is difficult, it's difficult with any two languages but it's even more so when the languages are so different.
For example, Hebrew has four versions of 'you', feminine, masculine, singular and plural, translating a sentence with two or more different versions of 'you' is difficult and you might need to add things so you can understand who the specific you is, or you lose the distinction between then.
Also like you said word for word translations are hard, look at Hebrew movie titles are fairly often bad with no real better alternative.
The Bible is also a good example of a lot of bad translations, although that's compounded with the fact that the Hebrew there is old and difficult to begin with.
There are probably other things I can't think of now(it's very late and I'm writing this on my phone in bed), but I think you get my point, and the original post. It's hard to translate accurately without losing our changing meanings.
There are words that just don't have a good translation. I speak English and Chinese, and when translating, it is really hard to get everything across, including the sentence structure, connotations, etc. You can generally tell if something is translated - it seems awkward, uses bizarre words/phrases etc. That's one of the reasons why official news articles coming out of China sound so strange - the way they are phrased just seems strange.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:12:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have a friend that works in translating (mostly) fiction. She can very easily communicate the meaning if style and flow don't matter in the slightest.
According to her the worst issue is trying to keep the meaning with its nuances while having it sound like something a 9 year old street kid in 1903 would say. Also cultural differences without an expositional onslaught.
This is strange because my native language in Danish, but I don't really have a distinction between Danish and English. Maybe it's just because I've spoken English for so long, or maybe it's because the two languages are very similar. But to me they're kinda the same thing. Though I still wouldn't be able to translate between the two instantly.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:14:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:06:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Typically English, but it depends on what word better fits the context.
For example, I use both languages with my family, so sometimes I naturally want to say something in German to really close friends because German may be more efficient or is how I thought what I want to say originally. I don't realize until I say it that they don't understand.
Like someone else described, I can jump back and forth between the two cliffs, often even in the same sentence, but I haven't built any bridges to connect the two for translation.
I've got the same problem. I'm always amazed at my professors when they're able to convey the exact tone of a literary text.
CmdrTac0 ยท 193 points ยท Posted at 16:17:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep, this was going to be my answer. You can have perfect command of multiple languages, be indistinguishable from a native speaker and able to write high-quality books and articles, and that won't translate (heh) into being able to translate from one of those languages to another.
dovahart ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 20:39:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So what does translate to being good at translation?
Is it just the aptitude of conveying the same feeling between languages? I'm actually pretty curious
CmdrTac0 ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 21:11:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You need to be super inquisitive and look everything up all the time, you also need to make quick decisions as to what needs to be looked up and what leaves you more freedom to translate as you please, you need to not focus on words but rather on ideas (many, many people are unable to do this in general, even outside of the context of translation), you need to take into account the context of the source text (beyond what's written on the page) and the context of the translation you're creating (who is it intended for?), you need to follow the fuck out of whatever style guide that specific client wants you to followโฆ
dovahart ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 21:33:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So basically rewrite the whole idea without losing meaning in context?
CmdrTac0 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 21:36:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Pretty much, yeah. What you're essentially trying to do is write what the original author would have written had they been, say, Italian rather than German. Sometimes it can feel a little like an investigation.
Ogris ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 22:18:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah. People take translation as just substituting words, but that's not the whole truth. You're substituting chunks of text with the nearest approximation in the language you want to translate to, while worrying about grammatical rules, syntax, adverbs and phrases and making sure the whole sentence, paragraph, whatever, still makes sense and has more or less the same meaning in both languages.
People who are bilingual can translate adequately, but interpretation and fast translation is insanely taxing and very, very, very hard.
Your brain gets rewired when you're in the job. You don't look at text and see text, you see tone, intent, level of education, target audience, grammatical structures, even the date. Maybe translating word per word works at times, but that's really rare. You have to be able to look into the mind of the author, understand what s/he's trying to say, and then redo all the process for the new language so that every nuisance gets to the reader.
You also have to be invisible. As God once said, "when you do things right, people are not sure you did anything at all". At no point should the reader get the impression that the text was not written in their native tongue, or else you've failed at stealth. Every translation is tailored to its audience.
Let me give you an example you might be familiar with. When watching anime, there is always the sub vs. dub controversy, and this arises because usually both are translated with different intentions and audiences. Dubbing has to be lip-synced, and since it's usually meant for TV, it needs to approach the broadest possible audience, so every cultural aspect must be either self-explanatory or localised and taken out. Subs, on the other hand, are usually managed by fan communities, and their objective is to be fast and appeal to the otaku population, which tends to get nitpicky and knows a bit more (let the record state I said "a bit") about Japanese culture than the common folk. You can also sometimes get away with translator notes, though they are horrendous and should be reserved for extreme cases. So you have the freedom to stick more to the original context (like using honorifics) but you also need to adapt trains of thought that might not be logical to western audiences.
In short, it's basically like reading five layers into everything. Plus being a writer. Plus doing lots of research about both cultures. It's a pain. But it's quite fun, and the pay is good, so here we are.
Vivtek ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:09:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Also, never ever ever ever try to translate into any language that isn't your native language. Ever. They will know. I don't care if you've lived there for thirty years - unless you got there before you were ten, forget it.
Yeah, though, in a pinch, you can take what you've written, and give it to a native speaker of that language (even if they don't speak the first language), and if they're a decent writer, they can make it look almost like a native speaker wrote it.
silian ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:02:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I do a little bit of editing for fan translations on the side and this is very true, the best translations typically have one person who does the basic translation then a native speaker will take the rough translation to make it flow and read properly in their native tongue. Otherwise while the meaning usually gets across the writing tends to read like it was written by a child.
And it's not just the language -- there's the culture too.
Here's a minor example. I was watching one of the Shrek movies with a Polish friend. She's almost fluent in English, so she's seen the movie in both languages. She insisted the Polish version was actually funnier. One example she gave was a scene where Donkey was transformed into a white horse, and is involved in a chase scene. In the English version, he's described as a "white bronco", but in Polish, he's a "white mustang". She thought mustang was better because it was a kind of car. She was not aware that a bronco is also a car, nor was she aware of the OJ Simpson chase scene in the white bronco that the movie was referencing. Thus, the Polish translator was correct to switch to a better-known car, and get rid of the American-specific cultural reference.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:26:30 on April 22, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That was a great example to make your point actually!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:37:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Dont know man, you described a good translator right there. I get the part that not everybody that speaks two languages can be a translator, but if you speak both languages as a native, how much better you can get?
CmdrTac0 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:40:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My point is, language skills and translation skills are different. There's some overlap, obviously, but there's more to translating than knowing the languages involved.
See this is so counter intuitive to me and I'd really like to know more about why this is the case. I bearly know more than a few words of German, so I have no personal experience. BUT if I had mastered another language completely, would auditory translation not simply be "listen, understand, comprehend, and rephrase with the same specific, contextual emphases"? Can I get an ELIF about why that wouldn't be the case/why that would be so counter-intuitively difficult?
CmdrTac0 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:04:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well, this might mean you have a natural disposition towards translation. I've run into countless people who treat it like an exercise in word substitution. For instance, when there's a noun in the original language, most people will try to find an equivalent noun in the target language. Sometimes (often) the result will be unsatisfactory, because that concept would actually be better expressed in the target language using, say, a verb or an adverb. Or the entire sentence structure would be totally different, and they're painting themself in a corner by trying to follow the original structure.
See, to me, that feels instinctively wrong, you wouldn't translate word to word, you'd translate an entire sentence, phrase, expression or "thing" in it's entirety, as best the new language allows.
Randel55 ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 18:06:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
On a related note: Teaching languages
Just because you speak a language doesn't mean you are able to teach it to others.
to be honest i suck at teaching especially grammar, i mean i can tell you the sentence is grammatically incorrect but i cant tell you why.
jkudria ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 18:21:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So much this. I'm fluent in both English and Russian which prompted a request to translate some Russian into English. It is NOT easy. Once your start reading and trying to translate, you realize your proficiency in a language is far less than you had imagined.
Indeed, I had an internship where I basically translated local language documents to english, and translating technical language was much harder than I would have thought.
jkudria ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:25:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep redoing the phrasing while still choosing words in such a way that the original meaning is at least somewhat preserved is terribly difficult.
goug ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 18:08:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In a translation course (the one that made me want to become a translator), there was this girl who was bilingual from birth (English and French), fluent in both languages, but she would get really upset from getting such grades when some in the class had poorer English (age from 18 to 21) but better translation skill.
I had a friend recently who was trying to figure out what to do with his life. He's decent in both French and English but I had to tell him everything I had to learn, everything he doesn't realize is required for the job.
You can't make any grammatical mistakes ever.
Being fluent in both languages you know, learning you should only translate into your mother tongue (although there are plenty of exceptions of course)
Learning the tools.
You probably won't translate literature.
You need decent IT skills if only to set up the software (XML, regex).
You need to be able to manage your time, your money, advertise yourself (I suck at that).
You need time to understand what you're translating, not the language itself (looking up words is the not that common) but the subject matter.
I translate video games, and I need to be good at translating dialogs but also at understanding when I'm reading a button label (Play) or an instruction (Play!). You also need to understand of the code works (variables etc.)
It's pretty tricky at first, but once you're good at it, it's awesome.
goug ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:58:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
It's not exciting for 90% of the time for various reasons (lack of context, you don't see the game at all most of the time, strings of text all over the place with no logic in the excel files, instructions and achievements..., the annoying translation memories )
But when you get to the good stuff, the dialogs, the cutscenes, the naming of characters or factions, the proper story telling, it's awesome and I'm glad I ended up where I am.
I did video game translation for about two years in-house for a company, then went travelling for another couple of years, and when I set up as a freelancer I applied for IT translations and stuff, but those didn't work out, luckily, as all the jobs I got so far were games localization through former colleagues.
goug ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:02:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A couple AAA so far, sharing with many other translators, but I'm not comfortable talking about it, one is not out yet and the other one I haven't been paid for so I can't talk about it either.
But I've been doing mostly tiny adventure games. One of the ones I really enjoyed was "hamlet or the last game without mmorpg features shaders and product placement".
It's the actual title. A really weird game with plenty of very unusual puzzles, where a tiny alien accidently kills Hamlet and has to do what he does in the play.
What language pairs do you translate? I've done videogame translation too. It is so fun, but also one of the most time consuming and confusing sources I've ever worked with.
goug ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:56:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
From English into French. I agree with you, it can be very time consuming.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:44:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have great respect for translators, not only do they need to be bilingual (or more) but they have to have a very good understanding of both languages and both cultures, more than a lot of bilinguists do. Real time translators are amazing to me, especially when important business is depending on them accurately conveying meaning across cultural differences
I took 4 1/2 years of Spanish in school. I was pretty good at it as well, and I still remember a lot of it. My dad says "you should be a translator." Uh, no. I know some Spanish, but not enough for that.
--lI ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:28:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Definitely. Another order of magnitude harder is simultaneous interpreting. Those folks at the U.N. train for years to do what they do, and that's having already been born/become fluent in those languages.
I was my mom's mini translator growing up. I love my mom, but that job sucked. It was insanely hard too. I had to translate a bunch of unique language quirks, and some stuff is impossible to translate because an equivalent doesn't exist in the other language or because it would have a different context in it. I dare you to translate "not bad" into what it actually means instead of the literal translation. Doing it when I was 6 sucked. I'd never do it as a profession. God bless those poor bastards that do.
By the way, my mom speaks decent English now, so I'm retired.
I personally find it cute that people think we're gonna be replaced by machines any time soon. I'm sure that when that moment happens, true AI will exist and wipe us all from the Earth.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:51:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Speaking and understanding languages is much easier than translating.
Vivtek ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:08:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm quadralingual and I can't translate worth shit. I was raised in a bilingual home, learned another language at the feet of my stepmother, and taught myself a 4th in college (ok, so the 4th doesn't really count, because I'm only passibly fluent, and not completely). But, due to the way in which I learned the languages, I don't associate, for example, hola with hello. I associate hola with hola, and hello with hello. I hope that makes sense.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:29:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This semester I'm taking a course on French-English translation and it's crazy the amount we have to do. Anyone who uses Google Translate can fuck off.
moyno85 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:26:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Then you get things that don't translate, many of which are even common phrases. How, for instance, do you translate the French word "ne" or the French phrase "Est-ce que" into English? You can explain what they do, but you can't actually translate them.
iowaboy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:52:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was totally guilty of thinking that anyone who spoke two languages could be a translator or interpreter (I don't speak two languages fluently, but I needed to hire a translator and interpreter). Boy was I wrong!
Good translators are tough to find, especially in non-European languages, but they are worth the cost.
I speak two languages besides English, but both of those are at the level where I'm comfortable having a conversation, but definitely not fluent. I can't even imagine the effort it would take to reach fluency, and I know that'd be the lowest starting point at translating. You have my respect.
I could be a sign language translator. Just look at the guy from the Mandela funeral. I know like 6 or 7 letters in sign language, so I'm already 10000 times more qualified than him
Tiervexx ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:11:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep! I have taught myself enough German to realize how hard it is to really get a GOOD translation that captures the essence of what was said in the other language.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:04:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What makes translating so hard? I was under the assumption that if you were perfectly fluent in a language, you could just translate it
translation is not a mechanical process, you need to have a background understanding of the language, the meaning behind the words and expressions, and the correct grammatical form to convey the text or speech you are trying to translate.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:40:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
dessmr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:03:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's true to a certain degree. I, teach and translate, if a person is a true bilingual he will know these things and translate, the problem comes when he or she wants to do it profesionally, nowadays they are required to use advanced software.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:08:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wow this was ridiculously helpful. Thank you!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:32:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank God someone said this. I'm bilingual (English and German), it is easy to speak the language when you're with fellow speakers, but when you have people trying to have you swap between languages it creates such a brain fart trying to swap syntax and language structure in an instant
actually it is stated that bilingual people tend to speak slower when they are not using their native language because of the whole language swap.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:32:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That makes sense. I was taught German the same time as English. And my relatives are the only ones I speak German with (I live in the US). I think it may be because when I speak German, I use the German words to portray my thoughts and have those already programmed, whereas when I use English I have the English equivalent programmed. The issue is when my friends want me to translate a thing between languages and I have to like process how to make the statement make sense. Just because I'm so used to speaking one or the other, when connecting, the issue is created
Vomath ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:16:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Colres ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:55:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know three languages fluently, and can translate live from my second language to my mother tongue. I did it as a job for a while, even. I can't translate live the other direction- hardly even with taking turns (I say a sentence, they say a sentence) and I can't translate comprehensively to or from the third without writing it down.
Languages are on completely another level than anything else. It needs to flow through your head, if you have to think about it even a little you will stutter and lose the thread of what's being said. When translating well, you go into a complete trance and nothing else in the room even registers.
THANK YOU. As someone majoring in Spanish, this is so, so frustrating. Everyone who's taken a year or two of high school Spanish thinks they understand it on the same level I do and can try to explain shit to me.
The issue is not that you shouldn't dream of success. The issue is that after a lifetime of montages, people think being good at something just requires natural talent and a like for that thing. Instead, every art or skill requires an incredible amount of study, effort, practice, labor, and sacrifice. Please, DO dream about success, but go into those plans knowing that you will have to work incredibly hard.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:19:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Bah! You think you can just be a failure at life, just like that? It takes practice and dedication!
I've heard about someone my company hired who was an Excel expert; used it all the time in their old job. When they got there they knew nothing of formulas and were doing all the math on a calculator and just using Excel to store the results. It's very easy for someone who knows little of Excel to think they're an expert as they don't know what all is there. Someone who has moderate knowledge may consider themselves a novice as they know there are many other features they don't use. In interviews it is best to ask about specific Excel skills, namely vlookups and pivot tables.
[deleted] ยท 191 points ยท Posted at 19:04:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted] ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 22:16:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you know pivot tables, vlookups, most keyboard shortcuts and can just RECORD a macro, without even knowing VBA, you can blow people's fucking minds. It's amazing. I spent the first two months of an internship just googling every time I didn't know a shortcut or thought "there's probably an easier way to do this" and now people think I'm some kind of genius with Excel.
Word has a lot more handy features than I had previously realized as well. Creating macro keyboard shortcuts to apply specific styles made formatting documents so much easier, but that's not as universally useful as vlookups are, for example.
If you know pivot tables, vlookups, most keyboard shortcuts and can just RECORD a macro, without even knowing VBA, you can blow people's fucking minds. It's amazing. I spent the first two months of an internship just googling every time I didn't know a shortcut or thought "there's probably an easier way to do this" and now people think I'm some kind of genius with Excel.
Sounds like my boss. Except no one thinks he's a genius with Excel. Pivot table all the things!
Big_Ern ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 05:12:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
pivot tables, vlookups...RECORD a macro without knowing VBA
I'm proud for not knowing what those things mean.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:50:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Edit: Aw man, I read that as "not proud" and went on to write this long explanation thinking I was being helpful. Feel free to ignore the Excel nerd and move on, ya'll....
I wouldn't have known them either before I had a use for them. Like I said, I learned it all from Google as I found the need. I tried to learn by practicing on random data back when I was interviewing for internships, but I found it very difficult to really learn without having an actual use for them.
For the record,
Vlookup is a handy function that can pull data from another sheet based on some common factor. ex: You have a list of these employees and their Employee ID, but you need to pull in their email address for a distribution list. With the employee roster that includes their email address, you can just use the vlookup to pull in their email address from the roster (in excel), using their unique employee ID. A LOT easier than looking up each one.
Pivot Tables are just a super handy tool for looking at data. Say you've got a client list with a bunch of information - type of product they buy, how much they spent this month/year/qtr, region. You insert a Pivot table with that client list and voila! You can see how how many clients are buying particular products, count the number of clients in each region or see which region has the biggest spenders. Super handy for a lot of things. I tend to forget to use this for simple tasks and sometimes use the Count or Sum function, which is effective but slow if you have more than one thing you want to quantify more than one thing.
VBA is a pretty simple programming language that can be used to write commands in Excel. Macros are what the commands are called. (I am emphatically NOT a programmer, so someone please correct me if my layman's understanding is off.) I rarely actually write any VBA, but it is basically in plain English, so it's easy to write some simple commands once you add the Developer tab. But they make it even easier to use Macros by having a "Record Macro" function that you click, do whatever you want the command to do (i.e.: copy and paste cell formatting), and hit stop. It's written the VBA code for you based on what you did. You can assign it a keystroke command and now you have a new shortcut, which is all I ever use them for. It makes formatting spreadsheets to be suitable for presentation a fucking breeze.
The most important thing I've learned is how to avoid using the mouse whenever possible in Excel. If you're using the mouse, there's almost certainly an easier, faster way to do it using the keyboard. It's way faster, easier, and more efficient, and almost always worth the trouble of figuring out how to do it, even if that takes a little extra time at first.
I could have written your comment. I use this technique in interviews all the time. "Would you say your skill level with excel is beginner, intermediate or advanced?" " I'd say advanced for sure." "Wonderful. Tell me do you know how to use vlookup? If then functions? Pivot tables?" .....deer in headlights.... " I mostly just did data entry in it." I see, ok.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:44:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
SUMIFS over everything
goat18 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 02:09:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Boy might I have something for you. I really like SUMIFS, but it breaks if you use it when linking to data in other workbooks, so there's a solution I found out some months ago:
Instead of
=SUMIFS(C1:C100,A1:A100,A105,B1:B100,B105)
you can use
=SUM(C1:C100*(A1:A100=A105)*(B1:B100=B105))
Then you have to press ctrl+enter instead of just enter, because it uses arrays. Other than that you can use it to sum data in other workbooks. I don't know if that's useful for you, maybe it will be for somebody else.
I love learning new ways to do things that are already amazingly useful. Thanks!!
_leira_ ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:10:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I took a crime analysis class a couple terms ago and holy shit does excel get complex. I feel silly putting that shit on my resume before that class! I learned so much, yet know that I realistically still know nothing of its capabilities.
I took an entire semester on excel and we didn't touch a quarter of what excel can do. In fact, we didn't even touch all of the shit I had already learned from other classes, which was quite a bit. One year later and I've forgotten all of it.
I started my work as a software engineer by writing macros in Excel. This led to forms-based applications laying on Access databases then eventually to C# and SQL Server databases housing corporate data on web servers. I once built a chess engine inside excel, with a font named "Traveler".
lumixel ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:38:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
vlookups
all about the INDEX(MATCH())
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:17:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I started at my job hired as an "Excel expert" In my interview, in order to test my skills, they asked me how to transpose copied cells. And how to find and replace text. If they had asked me how to do a vlookup I would have been screwed. Thankfully Google is my best friend. I've come a long way since then.
KeeperDe ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:14:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Definitely. I know enough about excel that I know, that I knew more about excel than 99% of the office I worked at. I also knew that our real excel expert (who gave excel trainings more than anything) knew a whole universum full of excel more than I did.
This is going to sound funny, but pivot tables become easier to use when you have a need for them. They're weird when you're learning about them in class, but you'll get it when you need to use it.
I really want to be better at excel. It is such a versatile tool. Maybe I can find a class or something.
Wyojhwk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:49:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've had to hire a few people who listed out that they were excel experts in their application. To test their knowledge during the interview I would ask progressively more difficult questions around how to use Excel to solve a set of problems. I could care less if they were able to write out the formula and arguments but I wanted to see their ability to use the tool in order to save them time or to create a repeatable process.
The idiots that clearly put Excel as an expertise but had only seen it due to it being included if Office made for short interviews typically. I could tell their level of knowledge within 10 minutes usually.
At my previous job (where I was technically a temp, making less that everybody else in the office and not getting any PTO or benefits) they hired a new senior account exec on our account, and it fell to me to train her for some unholy reason. I was showing her the reports that I ran every day, which were templates that used vlookups and some comparison formatting formulae to highlight changes from one day to another.
I wasn't even getting into how to specifically use that stuff, just things like, ctrl-a to select all, or ctrl+shift+direction to select all the cells in a column or row. She kept on telling me, "I was the Excel person at my last job, we just used it, like, totally differently. this is totally alien to me."
On one hand I understand enough about Excel that it's possible that one med comms company uses it in a very different way.
On the other hand, I feel like anybody who uses computers regularly should know that ctrl+a selects everything in the field. She also required more than one reminder about how copy/paste shortcuts worked.
Microsoft excel is easy to use. Anyone can type in an equal sign and add up a few numbers. Using it as a powerful tool, creating a useful program that is easy for your clients to use is very difficult
The last part of your comment is the most important. Making something for yourself is one thing, making it a "product" that becomes robust and reliable while effective and easy to use for someone else is a real skill.
sleepy55 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 23:25:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think it's more the fact that using it efficiently is very difficult.
Excel is user friendly enough that you can accomplish a good amount of tasks as a beginner, but some might take you dozens of hours because you don't realize you can use function X instead of manually entering things.
And don't even get me started about macros. Even if you know Excel formulae front to back, macros are a whole other layer on top of that.
goat18 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 02:01:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Several years ago I loved macros because you could automate stuff to refresh at the click of a button. Later on I started thinking of Excel in the same way as I would think about code. It should be easy to read, understand, and maintain, and that's more important than having everything update as fast as possible. So now I avoid using macros for a lot of things where I probably would have used them in the past.
The same principles apply to macros really, VBA is just another programming language as far as I'm concerned.
notLOL ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 22:57:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Making it reasonably not ugly is also a skill. I usually just have inputs in random cells
The more you learn about Excel, the more you realize you don't know. Microsoft Excel is not an easy tool. I have extensive programming experience and have used Excel in ludicrous ways, and I know only that I know nothing.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:08:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I'm a software developer, building financial software. I kinda feel like if you are going to spend so much time building a product in excel, you should probably learn SQL already and possibly JavaScript or python. I sometimes just don't understand the time investment in excel
For example, my brother builds complex excel files with pivot tables and sometimes hundreds of thousands of rows. He has a few that take 5-10 minutes to rebuild. With that sort of time investment, he could have learned SQL and done the calcs in the ms range with millions of rows. And with massively more flexibility
I personally wouldn't put proficient until you can at least create if-then equations (or statements, depending on how you look at it). The use of macro's would also be good to know as well as actually being able to make a document look good, easy to read, and be usable with minimal instruction by other people other than those who developed the excel sheet.
There are other words you can use on your resume other than proficient. Usually what I use on my resume for skills ranking from lowest amount of skill to highest amount of skill is experienced<knowledgeable<skilled<proficient.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:50:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was pretty proud of my excel budget I made. Color coded, lots of sum statements adding my columns together and subtracting the expense columns income , pretty graphs detailing my expenses and income, frozen panes, and even some conditional statements.
I went over to /r/excel because I considered myself a big beginner that wanted to maybe learn some things to add, and I honestly don't have the first clue what they are talking about. I don't even know what they are doing with it.
Yep, you and me use excel, they seem to use excelPro or excelUltron or some shit like that because It looks like they use a different program lol
RickDic ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:27:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's strange, everyone in my office acts like it's like learning Java.
Hellkyte ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 06:24:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
On some levels, it sort of is, at least in terms of complexity. VBA alone is actually fairly powerful when really used fully. You will find yourself using a lot of the same standard techniques you use with most other oop languages. Then there's the fact that the actual implementation of the language is incredibly haphazard and inconsistent. Obviously it isn't as powerful as something like Java, but what it lacks in programming it adds in the actual excel side, which can do simplex algorithms or some fairly complex statistical analyses, or some really weird and powerful stuff with hlookup/vlookup and R1C1.
Excel is like skiing. Anyone can get on the bunny slopes. But actually flying down the madderhorn? That takes some serious work.
RickDic ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:34:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was pretty sure I knew how to use Excel until I saw someone build a flight simulator in one.
Rhueh ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:03:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Excel is one of those things where the beginning of wisdom is realizing how little you know.
Hellkyte ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:15:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When you know how to use Hlookup, Vlookup, and can code VBA in R1C1 without having to reference books ahead of time, then you're starting to enter the expert realm. I use these from time to time and every time I have to spend like 30 minutes reminding myself how to use it.
yass_cat ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:02:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've been reading through the excel bible, going through videos on excel exposure, and supplementing with other YouTube tutorials, brushing up on general math skills and starting to work through Visual Basic too in an effort to actually get good at excel without taking formal classes. I came from zero knowledge at all and I'm definitely miles ahead of the average joe now but I have a really long way to go before I'm where I want to be. Like, many weeks of work. It's not easy. Shit like figuring out how to use auto fill, and a slicers from "10 Excel Tips to Impress Your Boss" seems to perpetuate the misconception. I'm not saying everyone needs to be an expert to use excel because you can actually start doing some pretty cool stuff with just a simple knowledge base, but actually getting good at it is requiring about as much work as what I would put into learning a new musical instrument.
Cjw2125 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:41:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I took a class my junior year of high school on Microsoft Office. People would be surprised on how much they can do with it
goat18 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:54:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do people say that? Most people I've talked to about Excel were pretty open about not really knowing how to use it well, and not really being sure what it can do. That said I'm basing this off like two conversations so it's pretty baseless. Like 90+% of my job is using Excel.
I recently learned from our office secretary how to mail merge a spreadsheet of names and addresses from Excel into Word for addressing form letters and envelopes. Turned a project that would have taken me all day into an hour and a half. Excel gurus are worth their weight in gold.
Hellkyte ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:27:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And often come in surprising packages. I've always thought I was pretty good and was then schooled by our super sweet grandmother-esque secretary on some weird use of it.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:22:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I hate excel, but I am greatful for having classes that made me use it and made me learn some of the stuff that comes along with it. But I am definitely not an expert at it and I don't know if I ever want to be.
As someone in computer science, it amazes me that Microsoft Excel and Word are still considered useful. I would much sooner write a Python script than deal with Excel. And I hate heavy text editors.
Then again I don't really do the same things lots of people do with Excel or text editors.
Yes python of useful and there are lots of times where a python script would be more effective than dealing with excel, but if you don't think excel is useful your being ignorant. Every corporation in the entire world uses excel and there's a reason for it, it is extremely good at doing what it does.
Sorry man, but /u/TheBetaPill is absolutely right. If you're spending more than a couple of minutes trying to accomplish something in excel, you would most likely be better off importing it into R or Python and using the one function that does exactly what you need and then sending it back to excel. This includes all aspects of data frame manipulation, statistical model building, and data visualization. Massive corporations aren't as smart as you think they are and the ubiquity of excel is definitely more a function of inertia and people's fear of programming than it is of excel's functionality.
Source: I'm an experienced data scientist who has worked in big and small organizations.
Interesting, didn't know this, although I am only lightly experienced with python and have never used R, what in particular is excel poor at? I have found excel extremely useful for most things I've done thus far
Data scientists represent! I want to be you when I grow up (i.e. when I graduate in less than a year).
Holy hell they downvoted the shit out of me tho. I thought I was being reasonable and just stating my opinion. I even admitted I don't do the same things lots of people use excel for... which I'm not even sure is strictly very true.
Yeah like I said, I realize my work is pretty different than what most people do at work.
That said, I'm not convinced it's the best tool for a lot of the tasks it gets used for. I agree it's ubiquitous, but it seems more to me that in many cases (not all) it's ubiquitous because of it's legacy rather than its functionality.
Yes, some people use excel for stuff that would be much better served by any sort of basic script, but most people don't know how to do that.
I fine it funny that you said this actually, one of my friends is soon to graduate from Compsci, and we took a heavily excel based stats/management course together, and at first he was like "can I just use python" and I was like "no, you don't understand excels power yet!!", but now he does and understand it's use/power.
Python doesnt hold a candle when used for financial/statistical analysis, data organization, accounting, and many other tasks excel is designed for.
How does Python compare to programs such as minitab? Excuse my ignorance (I have zero programming background) but I've never understood how people can compare Python to a program with a user interface like excel or minitab. When you use Python, where does the output end up. Where is the input? Do you just have a bunch of data in a csv and run a Python script that outputs another text file with the desired parameters you were looking for? What happens if your parameters change slightly, do you have to alter the code in the script? For example, if I had a list of 100 data points and I wanted to find the mean of all the data points, but then decided I want the mean of every 10th point and then later on I decide I want to sort the data, would I have to create 3 different scripts and have 3 different outputs?
I'm a data scientist and manipulating data is about half of my job. The guy above you and the /u/TheBetaPill is absolutely right. People keep pointing out vlookups and pivot tables as some of the very useful advanced excel features. These are things that require a single line of code in R, Python, or SAS. Only amateurs use excel for data analysis. It requires tremendous effort to accomplish incredibly simple transformations and manipulations to data, and there are a plethora of data manipulations it is simply incapable of pulling off. Eventually, anyone whose job it is to analyze data and is worth their salt will hit a wall with excel, and the only way to clear that wall is to pick up R/SAS/Python. User interfaces come with an absurd amount of constraints in capability because you simply cannot create a GUI button for everything one would want to do to a data frame. More importantly, they simply cannot scale the way a script can.
Thank you for the reply! I've always wanted to get into Python but at my job, I never have the chance to practice using it and the data I encounter never requires hardcore statistical analysis and consequently it's difficult for me to become proficient enough where Python would be easier and more effective than excel.
I think /u/sohaibhasan1 covered a lot of the motivation for why Python is great, but I wanted to answer a few more of your direct questions/comments:
Python is great for first time programmers. It's the most intuitive language I can think of. Very user friendly.
It's true Python doesn't have a GUI. This can take some time to get used to. However, once you get used to it... it's difficult to go back to GUIs because they keep getting in the way too much.
In python you can open files using this kind of line:
with open(file, "r") as f:
f.read()
And you can do a variety of outputs.print prints to the console, for example. You can also use packages like matplotlib to generate charts. And Python has excellent csv writing/reading/manipulating capabilities. There a tons of tutorials around the Internet. The python website has great documentation. There's also lots of free online courses. On Reddit there's /r/Python and /r/learnprogramming. Anything else is easily Googleable.
Sorting csv files can be done by calling a function called sorted. Just pass the correct parameters to it. One line. No need for a new script.
Finding the mean of the data is also only a 1 line script: sum(x)/len(x). Off the top of my head, taking the sum of the mean of every tenth element might require 2-3 lines (it's kind of an odd thing to need to do).
You can do whatever you want with your scripts. It depends on how you build them. With practice you get very good at writing "modular" code that can be reused. You could write three scripts for that, or you could just write one. Honestly for each of those tasks I probably wouldn't even save the scripts. I'd just open up the python interpreter, write 3-5 lines and get the results immediately. 5-10 seconds.
I still use things like google sheets for making a pretty little spreadsheet, calendar, budget, etc. If it's only a few columns/rows and I want easy custom cell colors, etc. then it's still my go to. For everything else it's Python (other people use R or shudder MATLAB).
Well, like I said, I can't speak to finance or accounting. Because I don't do finance or any of that stuff. I didn't say it was wrong to use it, just that it baffles me as a computer science person, that people still use it.
But python is way better for stats, manipulating data, making predictions, data viz, and data modelling. Ask any research scientist and surely they will tell you that. And there isn't anything special about organizing your files in CSV/Excel format. It's plain. Which is sometimes nice. But python is plain/uses CSVs too. And there are much more expressive types of databases out there if you need them.
In many ways, basic programming is the new literacy. They're teaching it in schools now. But many still people are afraid of it. So companies continue using Excel more often than they should.
I've used python to edit an excel spreadsheet once.
Huge document, with another smaller document (formatted slightly differently) and had to search to see if a row in the smaller was in the larger. It was dumb, but it was amusing.
I heard this to the tune of "I am a judge" from Trial By Jury.
Yoyti ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:52:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's funny. Because that was written by the same people who wrote The Pirates Of Penzance, from which we get the Pirate King song. (As well as the Major-General song.)
Which is why you should never ever make your dream your job.
[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 20:34:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Amateur astronaut checking in. So glad I only do it on weekends, I hear those weekly meetings and incident reports are a huge pain in the ass for the pros.
The main reason I'm not launching into that career.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:49:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
expense reports for outer space expenditures are rough. No one remembers to itemize the receipts
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:42:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's my secret. I'm not interested in anything.
Rammage ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:39:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Isn't that all dream jobs?
p1zawL ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 15:03:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Absolutely. Just because you enjoy something doesn't mean you're good at it. And just because you are good at something doesn't mean you will be good at doing it in a professional environment where you also have to do a hundred different tasks not related to your main activity which you are passionate about.
It's a shame how many people daydream about their "perfect job" but then put in no time to get good at doing what that perfect job requires.
The supplemental stuff is a big one. A lot of people assume going into software development that you'll just get to write clever code all day. They just assume because they're good at programming they'll be good at development. They can be anti social code wizards.
Most of the job isn't clever coding. It's relatively straightforward stuff and most of the hard work comes in clarifying what people need, puzzling out actual requirements from general ideas. Communicating with team mates and breaking down work. Writing clearly communicated tickets so that when it comes time to be tested people know what's up. Doing code review on other people's code. It's a lot of communication.
Depsite the stereotype, anti-social weirdos don't thrive in software development. When interviewing those types we write them off right away because no matter how good the code is most of the job isn't that.
ocelost ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:16:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think it helps if you enjoy the process of becoming good at things.
I'm currently in my dream job. IT for a ~$70m annual revenue company. Some weeks I do 10 hours of real work, some I work at 2am. Mostly at my own pace to improve the network. Everyone is EXTREMELY appreciative that I'm there, free fully stocked kitchen, I come and go as I please, no boss breathing down my neck (I actually feel like HIS boss). I get great benefits and pay with no stress.
If you asked me 5 years ago to fully describe my dream job that is what I would have said. I'm living the dream.
My dream job is to be a stay at home dad, minus the dad part. I would absolutely rock at this job! Clean the house, cook some meals and the rest of the time, I can play videogames and watch tv? Sign me up!
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:52:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep, I spend $25000 on 3.5 years of college to get my dream job in biology before I realized that I really hate chemistry and math, and I suck at both of them.
I have a new dream job now and I'm hoping it's more realistic for me ha.
Do you mind if I ask what your new dream job is? I got a degree in biomedical science and had a high gpa but realized that it wasn't really for me. I too hate chemistry and math.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:59:59 on January 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I want to be a therapist now hah.
Solastor ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:57:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I interned my dream job (not at my dream facility, but same job) and I fucking loved it. The really hard part is getting hired and thats the next step
hammeat ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:36:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm pretty good a jerking off and getting sloshed fishing.
Tell that to the schools pushing kids with nothing other than this for motivation. Seriously, my old high school tried pushing us all to go to uni and sold us off on the benefits of it, completely ignoring the crippling debt and potential burnout of it all. Not to mention they want you to decide your career at the age of 13, and if you're "good" at something then, well I guess you should fucking get a job doing that then because you're "good at it*.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:44:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is true about 80% of every episode of Shark Tank and Bar Rescue
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:23:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fuck you, but thank you. You motivated me. I'll show you, fucker.
Gibboni5 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:01:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ye my dream is to be a programmer myself people have been telling me all my life how difficult but god knows if thats not what im doing then im not really living.
TwiZtah ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:32:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Your dream job should never, ever be your hobby. Because when your hobby becomes your job, it is no longer fun.
[deleted] ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 15:58:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:42:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Buncha pessimists in here. Good for you, man.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:55:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Backpacking guide checking in. I love it even more now, and I get paid to do it.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:54:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I figured this out when someone paid me to paint a bunch of random things they wanted... after the first one I was like "yeah I probably shouldn't do this for a living."
Now I'm rather grateful that my parents made me take up psychology instead of letting me take up Fine Arts.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:59:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is this always the case? A hobby can turn into a job as long as you realize you're working not hobby..ing . Treat it like a job you just happen to enjoy and you'll be fine.
I think a lot of people assume that since their hobby is now their job they'll never have to deal with the mind-numbing tedium of a normal 9-5. That's never the case.
No matter what you do for cash, at some point you'll have to put in work. Work that doesn't really involve what you like doing as a hobby. But lots of people would rather do that than have a job they're getting very little out of.
I teach young adults how to rock climb safely. Can definitely say that my job is my hobby. I get to climb amazing formations in yellowstone. But I also work as a laboratory technician working with blood samples to test quality of blood analyzers.
As a software developer the last thing I feel like doing after a day of programming is more programming. It's not that I don't like programming, but I'm just way too worn out to put out any more code for fun after I've done a day of it. I really only look into hobby coding things when I'm on vacation now or doing puzzle type things that aren't a major time investment.
This isn't a steadfast rule. The fact is, some take on their hobby as a career and "never work a day in their life"and others do the same and it completely ruins what they once loved.
People are different, and respond differently in similar situations.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:06:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think its that hard to do nothing except get drunk around my house all day.
This. Imagine your dream job. Now stop imagining it as a job and imagine it as a hobby on the side.
NEVER make your passion your job. Few things will happen. You will firstly start hating it because you're not doing it for fun anymore; you're doing it by requirement and under deadlines, so the fun gets sucked out.
Secondly oftentimes your "passion" has a very small market and will have little potential money in it.
If you like a thing, keep it as a hobby. Keep it as something you can sell at your leisure.
Go get an actual job that consistently pays and that you won't end up hating every day. Go learn a trade or study to be an engineer. The money will roll in to fund that hobby without having to rely on that hobby to live on.
Better yet, find a real job that you can somehow integrate that passion into. There are plenty of diverse fields of engineering; you can probably find something that partially appeals to your hobby.
Along the same lines as photography mentioned earlier. Basic music production software and equipment is readily available and is affordable to most these days. Compared to the 10's of thousands of $'s required in the pre-digital era..
It is possible to record and produce music to a reasonable standard at home, after much learning and practice, but many seem to think professional recording studios aren't worth using at all. The result is many substandard 'demos' circulating, and a devaluation of professional studios. Both in monetary terms and general respect and understanding for the craft.
I was a media production major and briefly worked in radio for two and a half years after college. While most radio commercial production involves basic voice/music mixing, it still always amazed me how so many "seasoned professionals" didn't understand simple concepts of using your ears and your eyes to monitor levels, properly blend elements together, trim music beds to shorten them to 30 or 60 seconds but still have it sound natural, etc. I can only imagine how difficult it must be to properly mic a drum set, adjust your processors to accommodate the specific voices and sounds, etc. Hell I don't even fully understand how it all works; I mostly just rely on my ears. I doubt I could handle the caliber of recording a band's album.
Everyone wants to be a cool, slick record producer. But very few can actually do it. Good sound production is something that, when done right, no one notices or thinks about. But so, so much work went into that three minute song.
That's honestly one of the reasons my time in the industry was short. I started as the morning show producer/co-host, but quickly found myself far more interested in the production work, but the prod director wasn't going anywhere, and it seemed clients only wanted "the main station personalities" to voice their shit (do you ever get that as a prod director?). Dealing with the sales staff also was a whole different animal. So, I changed careers, but now I volunteer at a local station doing imaging or whatever promos they need some help with. It's nice because I get to do something I love with zero pressure since I'm an unpaid volunteer. Obviously I'm gonna take the time to do a great job, but you know what I mean.
And like you said, it is so crazy hearing the crap that gets put on the air on so many local stations. It's like no one even cares.
Sales can be a pain in the ass. Fortunately we just hired a new GM who doesn't take any shit from them and makes sure that the ops staff doesn't have to either.
There are certain clients of ours that request certain voices for their spots because they've been doing them forever, but for the most part I have free reign to assign whatever to whoever. Typically I'll just have the jock voice the script and I'll produce it though, it'll turn out better that way. Overall it's a pretty decent gig.
That's awesome, man! It sounds like you've got the gig in radio I always wanted. I always enjoy meeting people in the industry and talking shop with them.
Couldn't agree with you more. I'm only just starting to work with professionals, as I'm in my last year of university for the profession, but I'm astounded by how many of them I work with and have no concept or understanding of music theory. Like, any of it. Maybe it's just a new type of education for my generation or something, but I was able to take tons of music theory and perception classes, and that has been the single most helpful thing when it comes to working with musicians and mixing/mastering. It really is crazy how these "professionals" can't go up to the musician they are working with and have a discussion about why one key may work better than another, or something similar. Not to disservice the industry, as these professionals are still miles better than I am at the actual production process.
its just hipster elitism. People think ableton makes them cool or something just because they use it. It doesn't matter which DAW you use if you have zero creativity and dont put any time in to learning it. Metro Boomin and Lex Luger (2 of the top producers in rap atm) both use FL studio. I know tons of great artists that use FL Studio. But some random dickweed trying to make more "like daft punk" shit on ableton thinks he's better because he uses ableton.
ofoot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:14:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But like..... Ableton costs money.... I mean sure, Max For Live is better than what FL's Patcher can do now(but one day....), but for the average consumer, I think FL is great.
Eh I'm not sure about that one. I've never seen someone state that playing an instrument professionally is easy. The majority of people find playing an instrument virtuosically to be black magic levels of mystery.
There is a difference between vituoso and professional. A huge difference in fact. Living in a "music city", I can testify that there is relatively little respect for professional musicians.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:58:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Came here to say this. I've been doing music production for about 5 years now, working on my DAW skills, studying the science behind sound and how it reacts in spaces, building up a collection of microphones and hardware. And the more I learn, the more I realize I'm almost definitely not going to do this as a job. It's so ridiculously complex. The blend of science and art is baffling.
I have a friend who is a professional producer. I went to pick him up once and he was in the middle of a project. He was showing me how he uses the visualizations of the sound waves to make little adjustments here and there to fine tune the sound.
It's just crazy how detailed it can get. It is way more than just mixing recordings together.
People need to learn how to compress, EQ, and use reverb/delay/panning to make things sound distinct. Then they need to hand it off to a real mastering engineer if they want something that sounds professional in any environment.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:09:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Apparently the vast majority of people think mastering involves slapping a tacky plug in on the master nowadays.
I've been doing this for ten years and I can't master for shit. I'm working on it but I know my own limitations and the virtues of paying a good engineer.
Mr44Red ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:50:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wait 10 sausage fattner isn't all you do to master?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:55:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Mate, just whack three chained compressors on it and an EQ boosted 12db at <100hz. It sounds awesome in my SkullCandys.
I discovered this after trying to solo produce music in Ableton Live. Sure you can plug in all the synths and make some tunes but you need to EQ everything, balance it, effects needed to not make it sound boxed in, and above all MASTERING IT. There's a reason most people outsource their mixes to get mastered by a pro.
porcubot ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:31:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Once you get into professional territory you'll find that most serious engineers won't master their own stuff. An A-list mastering studio is going to look very bare to someone who's used to seeing racks of compressors and preamps- it's a finely-tuned room, with finely-tuned monitors, a few pieces of rack gear, and above all an engineer with fresh ears who hasn't been previously invested in the project.
I work in the music industry (edm genre) and so many people think they're 'producers'. It's so bad. I try to be polite about it but I cringe at almost everything a friend's 'really talented buddy' shows me their new track. Also no, I'm not going to email my A&R friend to keep an eye out for your track.
I'm a huge fan of the EDM genre and I picked up a copy of Ableton Live and ordered a fancy midi keyboard and all that jazz. I play around with it in my spare time and collaboratively learn it with my friend over in Korea when we can spend some time on it. We would never send out our shit to anyone until we know it's perfect. I don't get the terrible music I hear on sound cloud and posted on these EDM Facebook groups. "Check out my new fire track". No dude. I can tell that's a ripped version of FL Studio or Ableton. I see your vengeance drag and drop audio clips. More like dumpster fire track.
I do it for fun and for myself because I love learning how people make the music I listen to every day. I don't get people throwing out this shit quality stuff.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:06:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Jesus, tell me about it.
Everything is clipped to fuck because they got ozone and pulled the threshold to the minimum and boosted the fuck out of it. The bass is just flat out noise because the kick and sub clash. The snare is literally just distortion at this point and the hats are needles inside your eardrum.
How do they listen back and think, "yeah, that's how I wanted it to sound"?
I've worked on a couple of Indie films recently with people just starting out (Don't do it, honestly, it's sheer hell) and I had to fit someone's friend's song into one of the films. It was horrendous, everything was just a huge fucking mess. At which point I realised my name would be on the credits, so I quit after saying there was no way I was a) putting that song in its current form onto the film or b) not mixing and mastering (which I can't even do very well yet) his song for him.
Damn, I feel your pain. I can't imagine having to work in Indie films, which must be a whole 'nother level of fuckery. I also know what you mean by not wanting your name attached to something like that; its why I won't call my A&R friends to listen to your shit track. Even though that's not the area I work in I'd still look like a fool.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:09:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not going to work with people starting out any more. I do overdubbing for educational stuff/corporate videos etc as a day job. It's pretty simple to do but my passion is in soundtracking and foley work really. It's a really tough gig but I love doing it (insomnia helps).
I've done a few bits and pieces but I'm just starting out. That last film was ridiculous. I'd got an hour of the score fully finished when they told me they'd done new takes and new scenes had been added, on top of that scenes had been extended. So OK, I go back and check the new recording to find at least half of it was entirely new and the project was considerably worse. Absolute charlatans.
Don't worry about it, I'll just go and record 30 tracks again, getting them all in time with the material and record extra incidentals just because you lied when you said it was finished.
Sorry for the rant, but this stuff keeps me up at night. Three months worth of scores down the drain. How can people be so stupid?
You don't have to apologize for ranting; believe me I have gone off on some epic rants in my time.
How can they be so stupid? Because they don't realize there is actual work involved beyond pointing a camera and shooting.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:52:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly, it's maddening. I think it was even more frustrating because it's the end game for me and they were halting progress.
From what I could gather, they were paying for the film with family funds. I didn't really know about that from the start or I don't think I'd have got involved.
What part of the business are you involved with if you don't mind me asking? I've been around the block a bit. It always feels a lot like pissing in the wind, especially working for a label.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:26:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes! Also being a live sound engineer. Everybody thinks that all you need to be able to do is plug in a bunch of speakers and mics and push up the faders. Sorry, buddy, but this has taken a lot of practice and training for me, and musicians don't sound as good when you remove the acoustics and try to recreate the sound with transducers - that's why we have all that fancy equipment and shiny boards.
The crazy thing, though? The same studio guys who often rightly feel annoyed by people who think being a studio engineer is easy often think the same thing about live sound. At least around here, a lot of them think it's easy because it's the sort of "dirty" version of what they do in the studio. But in reality? Naw. It may not sound as clean or even as developed as the album, but that's because we're fighting with physics.
I had to learn both when I went to "sound technology" technical school. Very glad I did, live sound pays the bills. Studio side is my passion, but live sound is very rewarding (for me and my bank account) when you get a good band and a good crowd.
g3wd ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:41:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Came here to find this comment.....and YES to that last bit. I've had excellent recording engineers destroy expensive architectural speakers because the amp gain is just the volume right? Still have the cracked tweeters. Yes, you can run the amp too low and break shit.
Live sound and studio have overlap, but it is almost impossible to take an engineer from one and do the other well. The fighting with physics part is brilliant. Also, live sound is LIVE. There's no go-back or undo button when the house is packed!
MpVpRb ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:21:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
many seem to think professional recording studios aren't worth using at all
Frank Zappa did his best work in his state-of-the art home studio. He did work with professional engineers
BigJim94 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:12:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You can lump DJ into this category too. Most people think its just pressing play but its so much more than that.
Well it doesn't help when you have dickwads like Mat Zo and Deadmau5 getting on Twitter or saying in interviews 'hurr ne1 kan dj it so simple'
drbhrb ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:46:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most event DJs just press play
BigJim94 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:51:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lets say for example they do have a pre-recorded set (for example I saw Feed Me last year and his lighting and stage set up were so dynamic that it would be damn near impossible to run the thing live.) He still had to mix the songs that he created together and find the right ebb and flow. His mixing was so spot on and his song selection was so superb it took me on an adventure. The fact that people think anyone can do it is the exact reason this post even exist.
drbhrb ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:59:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I said event DJs, like weddings
BigJim94 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:17:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I suppose you are correct. I was thinking of events like EDC, Holy Ship, Electric Forrest and so on. I was confusing festivals for events.
Still though, you have a point. So many people look at EDM festivals and say herr derr all he did was press play. Okay, well did you consider the hours and days that went into the lighting and the mix itself. So many older musicians are turning into huge elitists because the technology is becoming much more widely available and they feel threatened that people are able to create similar quality sounds in a much shorter time frame and for much less money
Yeah, its about being famous first, then pretending to twist knobs while nodding your head. Any idiot can DJ.
There was even a show on it where they took some random people and taught them to DJ at a professional level within a few hours.
edit: below - people missing the point. Its about doing something professionally, not having the approval of a bunch of bedroom DJs who think they've put in the hours to get the skills. This is the point - you don't need any skills. You just need to be famous and stand there playing a mix CD looking the part.
You have to be able to understand music enough to properly ease between tracks (don't know the actual terminology). Maybe you can teach someone the technical aspect in a few hours, but not the artistry.
There are some basic things to learn, like beat-matching (although machines can do this better nowadays) and mixing in key. Any seasoned musician can learn this in hours. I did this across a few tracks first time with vinyl without practice, although I already knew the theory.
Now, actually getting paid to DJ professionally? You just need to be famous.
The most important part of being a DJ is having the correct song selection for the moment, sending people through a journey by music.
A lot of people just suck at that/don't know a large variety of tracks to even start.
oyooy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:28:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Currently studying Music Tech A Level so I'll definitely agree with that. I do about 6 hours a week just learning how to use the studio we already have and, relative to real ones, it's tiny. It's so hard to actually get good sound and I know I'm only scratching the surface on it.
With 10k hours experience you have a good chance of producing something at a professional level but even then you're just one out of several million guys who can do that so there's no money to be made at this point. I learnt this the hard way.
Like anything in the entertainment industries it's all about luck and connections.
You could be the best producer in the world, but if you don't release anything than no one will know. And then if you do release it you'll need connections to get it into the hands of the right people. With that you'll begin to get something small going, but it always takes a bit of luck to really blow up.
My thought was always that if you want to get into producing music you need to demo it critically to your friends in a live setting, then make a recording of yourself and get feedback, and then maybe if you are good enough you can go to a real recording studio.
This kills me the most. I grew up (and I mean from a REALLY young age, like six) teaching myself how to record, first to a four-track cassette deck and later into DAWs, learned how to use about six different recording and three MIDI-focused ones. Had a project studio in high school in my backyard shed that I paid for, and worked for another studio in town, all before I was 18. Went to a recording arts program (not like FullSail or something, but a nationally-recognized one, Waylon Jennings recorded stuff there), got ProTools certified...
Basically, recording music is my dream. However, I know from the other studios I've worked in that its a dying field, in part because it hasn't adapted to the times. People just don't want/need to pay $200+/hr to pack up all their gear, haul it across town, and be told what to do by some tired professional. Especially now that you can spend around $1000 and get decent results at home. Maybe not radio-ready nation-wide release quality, but decent enough for most bands. My plan? I'm working on a mobile recording setup. I've developed a reputation for being really easy to work with and good at mixing (especially drums). I already have interest from quite a few people for coming to their practice spaces and doing "budget recordings," as well as recording live performances. I won't be charging $200 an hour, but with a lower overhead cost and being priced more affordably, I can see there being a demand. I'm mostly charging for my time spent mixing. Once I get all the pieces together (slowly buying up things used/on sale), I should be able to recoup my spending on the gear just on the bands interested alone.
That said, I would love to have an actual beautiful studio. Maybe someday, if there's enough clientele to justify it.
It is definitely a dying industry. But I don't believe it's because the industry hasn't adapted. In fact I think the industry adapts quicker than most, with any new technology being adopted very early by most studios.
I think the reason why it's on a steady decline for over a decade now is that high end equipment is still very expensive. Even excluding a high end recording console you still have ProTools HD, Plugins, Mics, Outboard, Rent, Insurance, Harddrive, MacPro, cables, etc.... All this stuff costs a fortune and needs to be paid for. So studios have to charge a decent rate that reflects the cost of doing business. Problem is that it is now possible to achieve an acceptable standard of recording in the bedroom for a fraction of the cost and people feel pro studios just aren't worth it. I would argue that they are worth it for any serious band/musician.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:14:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a music producer i can say this is true, the hardest part is the maintaining levels, results can be extremely frustrating
Became a "professional" engineer/producer in the last few years (i make a living from it) working at three facility studio, in Ireland of all places.
I tend to find, that because it's so easy to get the tools, people think they can use them.
9 times out of 10, the band who listens to their substandard bedroom mix against a professional one and thinks it's acceptable, are probably a band i wouldn't want to work with anyway.
So true. A bigger problem I suppose is that it doesn't take much money to move from a bedroom operation to a fully fledged ITB studio. So many of these are popping up and charging โฌ100 per day. Puts a lot of pressure on pro studios and engineers to justify their still competitive prices of โฌ350-โฌ500 a day.
On the other hand, Basshunter started off literally making music in the basement. Aron Chupa, the one-hit wonder producer of I'm an Albatraoz literally wrote/synthesized it in his basement, and the girl singing is his sister.
I have a friend who's an amateur DJ, and the few progressive tracks she's made from scratch are pretty damn good. Not as polished as something from Armin or Sander Van Doorn, but the beat and quality is there.
Professional studios are still useful, but the barrier to entry is much lower now, and we're all the better for it with access to more and better music.
Yeah I agree. It's easy to make a start and this is great for music in general.
My point really is that while some bedroom producers are excellent, the majority are not. Yet they still seem to think that having Logic/FL/PT paired with KRK rokits and an maudio axiom they can achieve a professional mix. While this is possible it is extremely difficult.
Bedroom studios are great for writing and arranging and putting together rough demos which you can send to your record/mix engineer before you book a session in their pro recording studio.
narrill ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:19:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You can do professional quality work in your basement on the cheap for a surprisingly large number of genres if you know what you're doing, it's just that both production and composition are vastly more complicated than most musicians think they are.
I tried my luck at making minimalist electronic music a while back. I had my synth, sampler, drum machine, mixer, 4 track and some software. Holy shit is it a lot of work.
I have a box of tapes of me messing around somewhere in my room and listened to them one night. It was like reading some poetry you wrote in middle school or something. Then I would remember that a given 2 and a half minite snippet probably took over an hour to make.
Making music, while fun, is difficult and time consuming.
evoltap ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:30:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you, was hoping this would already be here. As somebody who runs a studio, I am constantly having to convince people why I have to charge what I do. People don't get that the upkeep and overhead of a professional studio is quite high. Also, many "musicians" have not made enough records to understand the process, so all they see is joe bedroom engineer offering free, and you telling them $3000 to make a record. Part of this ties into the fact that musician should be on this list too.
Leharen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:32:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You also need, and I mean need, to practice a lot with software and other things. I've been making music and working with ideas for about two years, and let me tell you, it's very hard to come up with an idea for a song and stick with it. Out of the (maybe) 150 or so ideas that I've had during this time period, only one-sixth of those ideas have become full-blown songs, and not many of them are even that great.
So before you think that bashing out a few lucky chords on a keyboard and having relative experience on a drum machine will make you the next Daft Punk or something, you'll have to practice. A lot.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:10:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Same goes for (music)videos. People just don't realize how much work goes into making videos. Even if you leave out all of the set and the actors and the catering and everybody who runs around there there's still the guy who edits it, the ones who put in the visual effects, quality control, color grading, etc and they all want to make a decent living... There are reasons why blockbuster movies cost millions and millions of $ and that's not only because of overpaid actors.
Shit you want a music video that looks like it came straight out of hollywood? Then fucking pay like the guys in hollywood do.
Yes. I took a two-year course in Music Technology in sixth form and did fairly well on it, and I still love making music on Logic, but I know I am nowhere near professional standard, at all. My brother has a degree in it and is there now, but it took a fuck-tonne of work, so I hate seeing these people who get themselves an SM58, decide it can record anything, and record an "EP" with it. And if they then ask for money...
My music group released a cd, and I was in charge of the budget, making it happen, etc. The difference between the raw recordings and the edits, and between the edits and the mixes, and between the mixes and the masters is ridiculous.
I'm going to be doing a personal project soon, and my group gave me the raw recordings from a song we never intend to release for me to play with. I know for a fact I'll never be able to do this project as well as the professionals who did our CD.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:01:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was taught how to record by a pro and am able to do all of it at home. However for things like recording drum kits I still prefer to go to the studio. It's just such a pain in the ass to sit there, get the phase right, blah blah and by the time you get it setup your gassed and don't even want to play. So much easier to pay a professional to do that part.
Then the rest of the tracking I do at home and it is in house until it goes to mixing and mastering.
Audio is hard. I did a project in school and by a stroke of luck had an audio visual guy in our group. He knew how to frame the camera so it looked nice and actually got a real mic on the interviews instead of just the cameras mic.
The. All the other groups had to put their section together with ours. It was amazing to go from clean clear picture with crisp sound to blurry, dark footage and fuzzy sound.
I make a lot of my own music, but I still hear flaws all over the place even after spending 15+ hours on a 3 minute song.
deboma ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:55:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like music is an art form where there is no "wrong" way to do it. banging on an actual drum is almost the same thing as using an android app. it really just comes down to personal taste
Music production is shat in particularly bad because quality productions are pretty much only noticeable to the trained ear.
It's sad but it's true - real good triple-audio productions are often seen as a dime a dozen because people just have no clue what they're listening to. On some level they might notice but I've rarely seen a casual listener pinpoint a good production from a bad one.
lawson04 ยท 717 points ยท Posted at 15:06:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be an offensive or defensive coordinator for a football team.
blumer ยท 390 points ยท Posted at 16:15:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But it's so clear! All they've got to do is cover #82! He's tearing us apart!
Ironically enough, the reaction to this is guilty of what the OP is saying. If it's so obvious, then I'm sure somebody like Pete Carroll can figure it out.
droans ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 18:36:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's a million times easier to see the faults in a play when you're watching it from above as its happening. It's a lot more difficult to predict the defense/offense before the play happens. People don't seem to recognize this.
Boukish ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:46:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To a point. But when you have the #1 passing offense, the #32 running offense, and you're playing against a team that literally fields a BIG PLASTIC SIEVE as its secondary, you should play to your strengths and pass the fucking ball instead of ramming it up the middle on 3rd and 8.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:32:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Jesus Christ you idiot then we have to pull the safety help over and we lose coverage over the top if they go vertical on us with #13 on that post route. What were you thinking?
[deleted] ยท 58 points ยท Posted at 18:20:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wow, I think veer is traditional. Up here youth and high school all run wing-T which I think is a super gimmicky offense.
jdonnel ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:13:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The easiest team and the worst defeats were against wing-t teams. Saw if executed perfectly the wing-t can score 40-50 points a game. ONE miss step you never see the end zone.
Just make sure your QB isn't a showboater who LITERALLY NEVER PITCHES NO MATTER WHAT EVER (my signal caller in HS). Also, be extra sure your linemen understand what's actually happening and how blocking assignments work. I was a guard in HS and while I usually got the job done, I had no clue what was happening in the big picture. If my blocking assignment was a backer I missed it often because no one ever bothered to explain how blocking assignments worked to me.
[deleted] ยท 282 points ยท Posted at 16:53:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I have two brothers who are successful high school football coaches. Both are very young (25, 21) and the youngest one verges on being some sort of a prodigy.
Now I understand football. I've been watching it for years. I know all the positions, I know all the players, I know all the teams, I understand all the rules, I am up to date on nfl stats, I understand what makes a player good/bad, and I understand the strategic basics of the sport etc..
But when my bros start talking football. And I mean real football. Complex strategy, plays, codewords, blitzes, coverages, fakes, audibles, options, formations, offenses, reads, handsignals, checks, pulls, defenses, weaknesses etc... I am astounded. I literally cannot keep up and I know for a fact neither could the vast majority of people. And that's just the high-school level (both intend to become D1/2 college coaches eventually and are on the right track). The pros is an entirely different galaxy when it comes to complexity and strategy.
Anyone who thinks football is a simple sport is an idiot. It is easily the most complicated and intellectual of all the major sports.
shanedoth ยท 135 points ยท Posted at 17:20:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Plus, that's the just the in-game coaching. A coach's job is so much more than that. Building a roster (e.g., recruiting, home visits, scholarships, etc. at the college level, or worrying about contracts, draft picks, trades, etc. at the professional level) is a whole separate game in itself. Then there's training and conditioning to develop your players, or taking care of internal conflicts, personal issues, etc.
There's a reason why great coaches get paid as much as they do.
Training and conditioning shouldnt be done by coaches. Im not saying they're bad, but we've reached a day and age where the indoor (in gym) physical training should be done by kinesiologists/exercise scientists. Coaches are amazing motivators and planners and can make you develop your skill, but it really takes a professional exercise scientist to periodize training programs properly and bring your team to the peak physical ability
Guitbass ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:41:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think what he means by training is stuff like drills, practicing plays, technique, etc.
I think the GM is the one who focuses more on money at the pro level. Obviously a coach has input (we NEED to keep this guy for my scheme to work), but the HC doesn't do it alone. He has a very large staff who he trusts to help.
Hanchan ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:05:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most nfl coaches don't assemble the roster, though that is phasing out now, they make requests to the gm who figured out how to work it out.
Football is one of those sports where the people that aren't interested in it cannot seem to grasp why others find it interesting. I always try to describe it as the sporting version of war. You have both sides and they are both trying to outsmart each other in the current battle (down) to help your side progress in the war. As such there are all the codes, signals, secrets, strategies, etc. that are present in real war.
Anyone who thinks football is a simple sport is an idiot. It is easily the most complicated and intellectual of all the major sports.
I'm actually kind of sad I never grew up in a football culture. What little exposure I have to it (mostly my ex-girlfriend), it seems like a very tactical game that depends a lot more on how you set up a play than on individual players being awesome and pulling off Ovechkin-style breakaways.
tobidurr ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:36:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In Germany TV right now there is really only one program, ran, that shows the NFL and they have different experts, mostly former players from the german football league or the NFL Europe, but they got one guy, who was an assistent for some NFL teams training camps, and his commentary is so different from the commentary of the other experts. He just has such a lot more knowledge and sees the game different and explains it a lot better
Hold on. I agree that it's complex as anything can be complex, especially at top level, but don't you think saying it is easily the most complicated and intellectual breed the exact same type of ignorance.
What do you know about other sports to make that statement?
Right now I would assume that the only reason you say it's most complex because your brothers are involved with it.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:11:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can say with a great deal of confidence that it is the most complicated because I also know/watch most other major sports; be it baseball, basketball, hockey, and soccer and none of those come even close to football in complexity.
I only know about soccer out of these, but I could easily see most of these terms you mentioned to go along with soccer as well and which do not there would be other at least as complex aspects to the game.
Could you keep up with top soccer managers/coaches?
Heimdahl ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:42:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't really enjoy watching the sport and only tune in for a bit when the Superb Owl comes on but even from my limited understanding it seems that there is so much more focus on the coach or single players on the field than in most other sports. More like some ancient warlord leading his troops from the hilltop instead of the usual team of players who work together to win.
Is there actually a lot the individual players have to know or decide or is it all coming from the "leaders"? Can't imagine some guy in the defensive line to actually have to think much about anything.
shytooth ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:34:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The guy in the defensive line also has to read the offense and make adjustments based on what they see. Just the tiniest movement from an offensive lineman is enough to tip off a good defensive lineman what play is going to be run.
bjsy92 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:38:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
what did they do to get their start? I never played football really (too small, tried it briefly as a high school freshman) but I follow it, just interested how young guys get their start in the business
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:52:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They both started playing middle school and played every year until they graduated high school. The older one played for a D3 college until he graduated.
The youngest one started coaching middle-school right out of high school at 18 years old. The other didn't start until he was 20 years old. Both started as middle school positions coaches (WR/CB and RB/LB respectively). They began coaching at the schools they graduated from.
This is possoble because the school was private and doubled as a high school as well as a middle school. Also the coaches there had known them since they were players so they were much more open to hiring them. They understood that they were good players who knew the game and were capable of teaching it. Didn't hurt that they were willing to work for chump change.
The oldest brother now has a degree in kinesiology and wants to become a positions coach (RB) as well as a strength and conditioning coach for a D2+ college team. The youngest wants to go all the way and turn it into a head coaching job for a D1 school.
bjsy92 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:52:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Agreed. I don't have a huge depth of knowledge about football, but the main factor that compounds into the complexity as I see it is the "time to plan" the next play as well as the week off between games to plan for your next opponent.
This is what makes football so strategic when compared to a similarly physical game like Rugby, which is more heavily based on quick decisions and overall concepts.
[deleted] ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 17:37:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
That's a tough question. On one hand there are a lot of "stupid" NFL players. On the other hand, these players still have to understand the playbook. And NFL playbooks might as well be written in a new version of the enigma code as they are that insanely complicated. It also depends on the position.
So in a sense some of them can be considered classically "stupid" while also still be geniuses when it comes to football. Sort of similar to savant prodigies.
I was genuinely curious, I don't follow football at all.
I just know that in a lot of other sports players are required to read the play and make quick decisions on the fly, while football seems more like the players are simply pawns.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 17:48:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Depends on the position.
QBs need to know basically everything about everything if they want to be effective. Both on offense and defense.
Middle Linebackers need to have a complete understanding of their own defense and also have a very good grasp of the opposing teams offense.
Offensive linemen need to understand a great deal more than what people give them credit for. They need to read the d-line, adjust to different blitzes, and know when to shift
The "dumbest" positions would probably be WRs, RBs, and OLBS but I am not completely sure about that.
Needless to say most players are not pawns. Infact QBs and MLBs are generally considered the conductors of the offense/defense. They are given a great deal of control over their squads and have the power to adjust accprding to what they see the opponent doing pre-snap.
The "dumb" positions don't have to make or fully understand the grand strategy but that usually leaves a lot of room for a focus on tactical adjustments and reads. They may not have to understand every formation and aspect of the playbook like a Mike but a Good D-end can identify an entire play based on Olinemans slightly uneven stance.
You need to make a lot of adjustments pre snap. The coaches call the play but there are MANY different outcomes that can happen based on your opponents set up pre snap and their reaction post snap.
Very. The thing that separates highschool standouts from college studs and college studs from true professionals is the ability to read and adjust to increasingly complex schemes at a ever increasing pace.
And your empty assertion that "It is easily the most complicated and intellectual of all the major sports" is based on what, that you know how complicated football is because of your brothers? Every single major sport is complicated. You were so close but you're making yourself blind
Chewie22 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:08:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Coaching in general. Ive coached high school baseball and basketball. What you see the coach do during games is such a small part of what they actually do.
I have full football autism and I realize I could never in any way be a coach because that's just too much shit to take into account in a very small time period
God I go to Panthers games a few times a year, and there's a 24-or-so-year-old who ALWAYS criticizes Mike Shula (the Panthers offensive coordinator). He hates whenever they run the ball.
The Panthers were 2nd in the league in rushing yards and scored the most points. And were 15-1. And Cam Newton was MVP. The play calling is fine.
pjabrony ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:06:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe, but there's a few things I can do:
figure out the end-game clock situation. It's far easier to make clock than to kill it. If we're up, or driving for the winning score, then we need to use the whole 40 seconds. Also, when we're up with less then two minutes, we strongly consider kneeling it out for three downs rather than running for the first down. Can't fumble that way.
There might be a reason for running, or throwing 5 yards, on third and long when we need the yards to get into field goal range. Or, say, to get from our 35 to the 45. Difference there is between a returnable punt to one that could be downed inside the 20. But I'm damn sure not going to do it from our 20 or their 30.
HS football coach here. I remember nearly shitting myself the first time I called plays in a game. You have to know everything that's going on the field and you have to have your next several moves planned. Then when those don't work, you have to have several more moves planned to fix it.
UJChris ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:35:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Liar... I know more than all those bums and I prove it from the comfort of my couch every weekend. /s
Yep. I've been around football since I was born (literally. I was born and a month later I was in Cincinatti for my Uncles first pre season game). The amount of shit coaches go through, especially good ones, is ridiculous. High expectations, constant accusations of cheating and recruiting, consistent criticisms and all on top of dealing with teenagers or young adults who are still practically kids? Good lord they need all the assistant coaches they can get.
Write poetry. I've met two people who hardcore identified as poets and believed they could make a living doing it.
MpVpRb ยท 249 points ยท Posted at 17:25:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
poets and believed they could make a living doing it
All arts are hard to make money at, but poetry may be the hardest
My ranking, from easiest to hardest (and easiest is not even close to easy)
Crafts (pottery, glassblowing, etc)
Musician
Artist
Actor
Comedian
Dancer(with clothes on, not a stripper)
Poet
mrt90 ยท 230 points ยท Posted at 18:05:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Dancer(with clothes off, stripper)
Crafts (pottery, glassblowing, etc)
Musician
Artist
Actor
Comedian
Dancer(with clothes on, not a stripper)
Poet
MpVpRb ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 18:10:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yup
Reminds me of a time I went to see a modern dance show with my wife. I leaned over and told her.."this is the first time I ever saw women dancing with their clothes on"
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:50:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
and then she gave you a loving elbow to the rib to be quiet and sit still.
MpVpRb ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:22:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
She still considers it the funniest thing I have ever said
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:12:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I found the comedian
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 21:00:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Dancer with clothes off as a woman is easy. Just don't get fat. Dancer as a man requires countless hours of excercise in addition to making eater your second job.
Boukish ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 23:48:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
People downvoting this post clearly must have never been to a small town strip club. The bar is loooow. You don't even have to be skinny, the pole just has to support you!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:33:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
people don't downvote because they think something is factually incorrect. They downvote becasue either they're offended, or becasue the agenda (if you think that the righteousness of your cause makes it not considered an agenda, you're wrong) that they're promoting would be hurt by a comment being read.
Boukish ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:04:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, you're of course right on the latter motivations existing, but people definitely do downvote factually incorrect things.
Hah! Jokes on you... I'm short, fat and hairy. Ain't no one paying to see me dance naked!
slythir ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 02:52:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Pole dancing is fucking hard. I'd put it before clothed dancing
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 18:58:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You can make some money as a musician fairly easily, but making enough to earn a living is hard. I know people signed to record labels, playing huge festivals, and regularly doing international tours who can't afford health insurance. It's still a shit life unless you become REALLY famous.
MpVpRb ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:02:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
You can make some money as a musician fairly easily
My somewhat-less-than-excellent band passed auditions and got paid to play..at the same place, more than once
My best friend, an amazing musician, who came REALLY close to a record deal is nearly homeless
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:04:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
well its really smart to have a back up plan. Some people use that homelessness to cycle it back into their art and strive to achieve.
Some do succeed after that, and some are just left with a huge gap in employment history without having gained marketable skills.
MpVpRb ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:19:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
well its really smart to have a back up plan
Agreed
Most of my other musician friends have a money-making career
But, the buddy I was talking about is over 60, with serious medical problems, who has absolutely no skills other than musuc
My crystal balls don't show a happy ending to his sad story
MpVpRb ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:23:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This shit is hard
And really, really unfair
Some say, work hard..succeed in life
Some of the hardest working people imaginable are dancers, artists and musicians. Rarely, they make a living at it. Most often, they have two paths, find another way to make money, or be poor
Trying to find jobs as a dancer is near impossible. And making a stable, decent amount of money? Forget about it. The only good thing is that you get to do what you love and what you're passionate about every day. Even if you do have to work insanely hard at it for little to no reward, it's worth it.
MpVpRb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:47:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yup..art is cool! I approve!
gacl ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:24:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd also count animator, and put it just above artist.
right... playing music is just one step up from making windchimes out of trash... do you play? do you sing? do you do both at the same time? what style? there is hardly a more competitive profession with more dedicated artists than music. and if you want to write your own lyrics... well then you've just added poetry to it, which is apparently the most difficult.
MpVpRb ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:15:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
do you play? do you sing? do you do both at the same time? what style?
I have been working with musicians since 1967, mostly as an engineer. I once owned a recording studio, and worked in the R&D department of a major musical instrument manufacturer. Most of my friends are musicians or instrument makers
I tried for many years to learn to play the drums, got kinda good. I tried even longer to learn to sing, got a bit better, but still not what I would call good. I tried and failed to learn piano. I currently compose prog rock for virtual instruments..so YES I have a really good idea how hard it is
But, my somewhat-less-than-excellent band passed auditions and got paid to play, and even got hired back at the same place
Filth090 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:09:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
except glassblowing has a huge overhead. if you can learn other glass disciplines, like kiln forming, or lampworking you can get something set up for under tens of thousands of dollars, but materials and energy and facilities are all very expensive things
No one can make a living off of publishing books of poetry in the US. Not even national poet laureates. To make it in poetry is to publish enough and establish a reputation that makes you desirable for full time faculty positions at universities. They don't even have literary agents for poetry.
Yep even if you're awesome at poetry good luck making any money, especially when the most compensation you'll usually get for being published in a literary journal is a free copy of the issue.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:49:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's one of those things where anyone can technically do it, but few people will ever have the talent and put in the hours to do it well. That's actually a common theme in this thread.
MrXian ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:45:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know a poet. Amazing artist. He doesn't make a living doing it.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:04:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That makes me laugh. The best selling poets tend to lecture at university/college to earn money.
2ndzero ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:10:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know any living full time poets
deltopia ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:11:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Poetry's unique because there's zero bar to entry. Everyone you've ever met has tried to scratch out at least a little poetry, at least a limerick or a haiku. People know words are powerful, so the compulsion to try to make their own words powerful is irresistible.
I've met a couple of people who considered themselves poets and had not yet starved to death -- combining that with being a guest lecturer at colleges, writing music, and that sort of back-up work was a factor for all of them.
omglolnub ยท 396 points ยท Posted at 15:33:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Touring musician.
"Must be nice to play songs for a living. I'm good at guitar/singing/etc. Easy work!"
Unfortunately, people seem to forget that being on tour is like being on constant business trips for your job. A lot of sacrifices are made - miss out on family and friends events like weddings and birthdays and especially watching kids grow up, holidays - stuff that normal people get to do that a touring musician doesn't get to do cause they're not around...yay Thanksgiving dinner at Denny's in the middle-of-fuck-nowhere Midwest cause it's dinner time and literally nothing else is open.
Not to mention bus life is like sharing a hallway to live in with 8-12 people (band + crew); even worse if you're in a van, which is 90% of touring bands cause a bus is roughly $1,000 a day to run - gotta have label support or someone with a lot of money! So no privacy or real ability to get "alone time" away from people on the tour when you're fed up with their shit; even if it's just mildly annoying mannerisms, being stuffed in a small space with them with no escape can drive a person insane.
I could go on and on, but every time I hear people say, "Oh, so and so is an idiot for quitting Band X! They were living the dream and threw it away," I wanna lose it. It takes a special breed of person to live the life of being on the road a lot, and that's just for being in the 1% of mid level to headlining national club acts (play 1-2k person venues). Burnout happens and some people just can't take it anymore or were never built for the rigors of the road (or also want to make more money than a part time Starbucks barista).
Bonus - why do so many touring musicians end up with substance abuse problems? Sure, some are psychologically fucked up addicts (hi Wes Scantlin!) but many others get them cause of "hurry up and wait, especially when more of the day-to-day tour activities get delegated to crew so the band doesn't have to worry about them (gotta keep them fresh to give their best performance). It's like being on your business trips, but you're back at the hotel and..."now what do you do?" All the time.
Edit: another bonus! Showering and personal hygiene is a pain in the ass on the road. Most American clubs don't have showers, so unless you have a place to stay that night (and not driving 13 hours to the next show cause tour routing is not necessarily designed to make sense for traveling in comfort), you get to love wet wipes and stuff like that. Staying healthy - some call it "Bus AIDS" but you can imagine what happens to that bus or van crammed with people when one of them catches a cold or flu :( (always keep hand sanitizer on you!). And diet - to eat and not get fat on the road without blowing a hole in your food budget is really difficult to do unless you're creative, too. (Ask veterans of touring for tips to survive a bit better on the road).
[deleted] ยท 121 points ยท Posted at 17:00:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I had a very idealistic dream of the road before I actually got on it, being on tour is basically just hoping to God that the next exit has something other than fucking subway.
Oh god, this. Subway and Taco Bell. And yeah, living off the dollar menu (or stranger's gifts of food - so much baked ziti...) is a good way to get fat on the road unless you are a fitness freak (and as such, probably not partaking in the 2am stops at McDonalds). Although it's a smart investment to have a membership to one of the gyms that has locations nationwide cause it's a place to work off all that terrible eating and more importantly, a place to shower cause 90% of American clubs seem to have this hatred of giving the talent they pay to bring in a place to clean up after working for them.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 17:26:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously. Clubs nowadays are stingy as fuck, idk if it's over saturation of the talent market or what but I feel like I'm begging for my guarantee every night or getting offered some shitty door split in a new market. Just five years ago I feel like I could get 500$, a catering budget and a hotel room out of the club without much of a hassle.
I feel like it really depends on the city you're playing at (and the venue). Some places that are hard up for entertainment will pay a lot more. Those places tend to be middle of nowhere Dakotas or something, though :(
And if you ask LA musicians about payment methods, they'll give you a blank stare of confusion or ask, "Wait, I'm not paying you to play this show? Wow!" -Source, lived in LA
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:26:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Same with Nashville. You're lucky here to get the 50$ base pay downtown. You play for tips and exposure. Lol
Yeah, I know about the honky tonk bars on Broadway in downtown. You really have to have a good frontman to work the crowd, but a good one can really get the band tipped well. It's interesting to see cause I never really see a tip jar system like Nashville elsewhere.
garvap ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:12:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
All you can eat $4.99 buffet? Yes, please. Also, I'm not driving the next 200 miles. Your turn.
Veteran move - eat yourself into a food coma, then don't drive hahaha
mcfly357 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:13:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
hahahaha yes!!!! fucking subway or wendy's, every meal for months. walmart is also way less exciting when you in the parking lot every night.
also, the constant struggle of finding a bathroom with a toilet seat/door. i seriously know where every legit bathroom is in the continental US and most of the UK/EU.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:28:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've mastered the ol foot on the stall door to keep it closed maneuver hahaha Love's and other truck stops are a godsend.
mcfly357 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:33:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
we used to be "shit techs" for each other. my guitar tech would often times be my human bathroom stall door, and i would be his. then it gets to the point where you just don't give a shit anymore. and of course there is always the girls bathroom before doors open! often times nastier, but almost always can count on there being a door and toilet seat.
i've seen so many hulk smashed toilet seats on tour. i seriously don't get who would manually rip a toilet seat in half haha.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:35:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Bands that shit together stay together.
mcfly357 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:46:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Gives a respectful bow You sir/ma'am are the herder of cats otherwise known as the band and crew, often with no thanks, so take my sincere thanks! We wouldn't know what to do (quite literally) without you!
But, it is not the glamour of the 30/60 minute set, it's the other 23 hours that really separates the local guitar heros from the true aspiring musicians. Its why bands break up. You spend 24 hours a day in a cramped van with 6 people you call friends for a month or two and then you learn EVERYTHING you hate about them. I wouldn't trade those days for anything in the world, but it is definitely an aquired taste.
too much attention unavoidably destroyed us
4 kids on tour, 3000 miles
in a 4-door car not know what was goin' on
we got a million years
tourin' out like this hell
no no premonition could've seen this
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:08:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As somebody who doesn't smoke, touring with smokers (as many touring musicians are) is difficult because if they're smoking you're pissed off and if they're not smoking they're pissed off.
In a high-stress atmosphere like touring, smoking is often a requirement to maintain a relaxed demeanor. I can't because I'm the singer and I've got to protect my instrument.
People act like touring musicians are dicks, but the reality is that touring makes you into a dick.
My son is currently in a band that's doing very well locally in a major city. A growing fan base, the press loves them - and they'd probably find success on tour. Nobody is jumping at that because they're a little older, wiser, and have been doing this a very long time. Playing a couple shows one state over is one thing. Committing to an actual tour is huge. Quitting jobs, selling assets, and joining that circus. The nightly grind, essentially fishing for success to fall in your lap. If that never happens, it's not the lifestyle any of them want. I think they'll only do it if a single should go huge first. They would tour to support the success they already have - rather than rolling the dice searching for it.
The best advice I could suggest is if everyone in your son's band is working productive jobs, line up everyone's vacation and sick time and burn all of it for one 2-4 week tour (play at least 15 shows, preferably 20-25) opening for a larger, known band that they have connections with, burning all the accrued paid time off. Preferably not as a buy-on (aka paying that headliner to take you on tour), but it may be worth the investment depending on how presently relevant the headliner's fit for your son's band (definitely don't buy-on for a tour with a washed up band) and if that headliner makes sense for your son's bands image and sound.
1) at least on this "make or break" tour, they wouldn't have to worry about making money from the shows thanks to getting that sweet PTO from work, cause the first tour will probably lose a lot of money, but that's kinda how it is performing for people who've never seen your act before.
2a) if the tour is a smashing success and gets them large indie/major label interest (as this tour is really to promote awareness of the band), then you have the good problem of wondering if it's a good idea to "turn pro."
2b) If not, then your son's band can know that they gave it a good kick at the can - they can still play hometown and surrounding regions and continue to develop a following for the band that way while still keeping their day jobs. Less likely to be discovered, but you never know who's in the audiences of shows, since they're in a major city (hopefully not a state like Connecticut or other backwater music locales that no one in the industry cares about).
Thanks - and they're somewhat doing this. They've accepted a bunch of out of state shows and have all blocked out time to play for a couple weeks. Much of it backing up a band they're friendly with. For a long time - getting the band on the same page was like herding cats. But they seem to have a committed grouping now. If there's a chance of being discovered in some way, they're doing it in the perfect places. Major entertainment hot spots. I don't want to be more specific.
Same with flying. I work with musicians who fly easily 150-200 days a year. I'm working on getting into tour managing so eventually I'll do that as well, but I also want to tear my hair out when others say 'wow you get to travel! So cool wish I could!'
Oh man, being a TM is like being a professional cat herder. But if you can do it well, you're worth your weight in gold in the eyes of the touring industry and will never be looking for work.
I know, I'm pretty sure I'm mental that it's what I want to do, but that's how it goes. At the moment I'm just a PA and stage manager, but I want to learn more before I take a stab at TM; there are so many bad ones out there I don't want to be one of them, you know?
It is. It really is. I'm always very professional, even when I'm not working, dress modestly, never complain and take on the tasks the men are given, never act even remotely interested in anyone in the industry and I'm still having a damn near impossible time. I can't imagine how difficult it is for girls who aren't as professional acting or prettier thans I am.
Honestly, you're doing it the right way and people will respect you for it in the long run. Hooking up with talent in the industry might get you a little bit ahead in the short term, but people will talk and know that you're someone's toy and won't take you seriously.
I know! I've only been tempted once, and I was able to maintain total professionalism around him (then fan girl out in secret with my non-industry roommates).
Sometimes it seems like sleeping your way in is the only way; I felt really bummed after reading a thread on here recently about how most powerful and famous actors and musicians have had to do something sexual to get ahead. I started to think 'well it seems so common place, and if it worked for (super famous actress) it might work for me' but then how can I tell who is being genuine and who is going to use me'...but I know it isn't, there are plenty of girls who have made respectable careers for themselves and I just look up to them.
Haha I know how hard it is not to fangirl (or my case, fanboy) when around someone you really like. I just try to remember that they're people too and if you play it cool and act normally, they'll like it a lot (no pics/autograph requests).
And yeah, it gets to be super discouraging when you hear those "whorer" stories. But I'm glad you realize you can be successful while keeping your dignity and self respect :) and frankly, it's just good karma in the long run
Oh man, well with him it wasn't the fact he is famous but the fact he is physically, mentally and interests wise my ideal guy. It was as of every trait I ever wanted in a mate was manifested in him. My crush was so bad you could just mention his name and I would turn bright red. I'm long past that crush, he's now married, but still, pretty funny.
Anyway, as fate would have it I ended up getting him for a string of events in Miami a few years ago. Since I was put up in a really sweet hotel for a week I brought my two roommates to actually enjoy the amenities while I worked. So we go to the first event and I'm getting super nervous/excited. My roommate said when we were backstage, he walked up and asked me a question and I answered him in the coolest, most professional tone. As soon as he was out of ear shot I tuned to my roommates, sighed then squealed 'he talked to me!' They thought it was hilarious how I'd snap into super professional mode when he came around then I'd go giddy fan girl when he walked away. Haha
But yeah, I can't lie taking the moral high road and not whoring my way in has been very slow and frustrating; I've been disappointed by plenty of TMs on my wish list, but eh. I don't think I could love with myself if I slept my way in. I'm very proud of my work, I can't tarnish it. I'm not going to throw away years of my life and thousands of my own money for a brief moment of fun. Besides, if I can resist my dream guy I can resist anyone else.
My biggest fear is being a shitty TM. I have a list of TMs I want to train under but sadly being a chick in the industry makes things more difficult than helpful.
mcfly357 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:30:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
best tour manager I ever had was a girl :) but i agree, dudes can be crazy disrespectful to girls on tour. you can definitely do it though!
If you can find us we're usually pretty good because we've had to work so hard to get there only an idiot would not take it seriously. Same with stage managers, one of the best I ever had was a girl.
Yeah I've had some pretty awful stuff said to me both on tours and when applying/expressing interest in tours. You just have to not let them get to you, because the second they see even the tiniest flaw or crack you're done.
mcfly357 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:56:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
yeah, i think initially people just think you won't be able to pull your weight (which i'm sure isn't true for you). but we've all seen it a bunch of times where a guy in the band brings his gf to sell merch or something, and she won't load in, isn't at the table half the time, and just complains constantly. i think that's why girls get a bad rap...just a few shitty ones spoiling it for the hard working girls. but once you've built up your rep as being a hard worker/not someone along for the ride, you'll get those jobs (and it sounds like, with your work ethic, you'd keep them!). i feel like once you find the band that's right for you, you'll know and they'll know instantly. like i said, it's so hard to find the right person that gets along with everyone in the band/yet garners respect at the same time. oh, and also, tour managing school is ridiculous. we've had a few guys over the years provided by management or the label that just finished tour managing school...and every time they failed miserably. you can't learn how to tm from a book. real life situations don't work like that. those guys had a real awakening when they realized how different actual touring was from what they learned in school.
I'm one of those who groan when I see someone's girlfriend on their tour because it usually means a huge hassle and drama.
But yeah, I've been working at this for a few years to prove myself. I'm 5', 110lbs but I'm there pushing gigantic amps up the ramp into the semi, scaling the huge steel stages to reconnect a wire or body checking dudes who are trying to get too close to my artist or on the stage area. It's pretty funny to watch me intimidate these big security guards when they mistake me for a groupie or when the promoter is being a shit-bag, not wanting to pony up their end of the bargain. My degree is in International Trade Law and while I didn't take the bar to become a lawyer I can negotiate and argue like one. :D
mcfly357 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:59:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
amazing! one of my favorite stories from when we were still starting out. we had a super small guarantee (like $200 or something), and the promoter was trying to get out of paying us by saying he didn't hit the split point and there weren't enough people there to pay us. the room was completely full though. turns out he put like 100 people on the guest list at a 300 cap venue so it would look like we didn't sell it out. after arguing about the money for about 15 minutes, our tour manager (one of the good ones) pretended like he was giving up and reached out his hand to shake hands with the promoter. when the guy shook our TM's hand, our TM HANDCUFFED the guy to him (promoter's wrist to TM's wrist). he then threw me the key and said "don't uncuff either of us until he pays us", then he looks at the guy and says "we're walking to the fucking ATM". it was so fucking badass, and sure enough, the guy paid us what we were owed!
In the book Please Kill Me, I thought all of the tour managers interviews were kind of funny because they just seemed annoyed. It must be really hard wrangling musicians especially if they do a lot of drugs.
mbpboy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:28:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Reading your paragraph on the substance abuse made me sad when I thought about Chris Wolstenholme. But then I'm happy when I realize he's good now, with the help from writing his two songs.
Oh did he get problems cause of the road or did he have outstanding mental illness prior to getting huge with Muse? Good to hear that he's okay now, though. It's hard to stay sober on the road when you're surrounded by it all.
mbpboy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:53:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, his dad was a major alcoholic (died at age 40) and he said he was a bit desensitized to heavy drinking. He said when he turned 30 he realized he could be dead in 10 years. His drinking problem really started when they where recording the resistance. When they where planning the 2nd law it was so bad Matt and Dom worked on the first half of the album on their own. Finally he talked to them about it, even saying if they wanted he would quit the band. To which Matt told him "Without you, there is no band". Chris saw counseling and wrote "Save Me' and "Liquid State" on the 2nd law. He is now luckily better, and is no longer struggling with it.
Ohhh I gotcha. I can relate to the fact that it can be hard to see how far down that hole you are. I've been sober 2 and 1/2 years!
The difference and why I mention Wes from Puddle of Mudd is that he's an unrepentant asshole and drug addict. He could really do with going sober and actually being a decent human being (he has a teenage son FFS!), but y'know..step 1 is admitting there's a problem.
Of course, the guy lip synchs live, so that's fun, too.
I've got friends in a couple of those 1%/headlining bands, and while it's awesome to come to a show and visit, when I see the amount of work involved and the sacrifices they make, I'm not sure I'd trade places with them.
mcfly357 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:16:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
i've always like the saying, don't be a musician because you want to be -- be a musician if you HAVE to be.
Yeah, it's not easy, but if it's something you love above everything else and can live with the sacrifices, it can be worth it.
_effy_ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:11:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
i've got an acquaintance who is a musician. just a british dude with a guitar, doing some folk rock blues-y stuff. he's not very well known but he has musician friends all over the world and he plays at small venues and bars with 50 - 100 people tops. he loves his life and is constantly on tour. and by constantly, i mean that. last time he was in my town, he said that in the year before he was like 270 days of the year on the road. he was playimg on christmas eve and christmas day in finland, i think.
basically when he ends a tour, he's at home for a couple of days before heading out again. normally he's twice a year in my town.
dude's in his thirties and has had a girlfriend for years who lives in london (i think) full time.
you certainly have to really love what you do, because not everybody would be able to live like that. and i think he deserves a lot of respect for that.
Wow that's super impressive, although actually a bit easier to pull off financially if you tour solo. Feeding, lodging, and traveling only one person doesn't cost a lot compared to revenue, even if it's playing for small places. But that lifestyle of always gone, gotta hand it to him, that would break me.
_effy_ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:35:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
it definitely is. as far as i know he's got his own car which he uses when touring mainland europe. sometimes he takes the train.
he crashes a lot on couches of his friends in the cities he plays, there's always someone who's got a sleeping place for him. so the cost isn't such a big deal for him.
but the dedication, the missing out on friends' and his girlfriend's lives is something not everyone would be able to take. but he seems happy with his life, he's a really fun dude, so i guess whatever works for him.
Well like any relationship, if you're crazy about each other and entirely too trusting of each other, it can work!
I just think it's neat that he's made it work for him to be totally independent and can do what he wants, and not be led around by the nose by some suits at a record label...and can financially take care of himself.
_effy_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:49:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
pbviously they are or they wouldn't have been together for so long. i just couldn't deal with not seeing my SO for two thirds of the year and missing birthdays, anniversaries and such.
yeah, totally. he does record stuff and sell cds but all in his own pace and on his own terms which is definitely great.
I'm on tour about 100 days out of the year. The conditions are a little better than you describe, but we're a group of about 20 musicians so it's usually more cost effective to take trains or fly. Still, the constant travel is really draining, and it can be difficult to find the energy for a concert after a long day of travel and 4 hour sound check.
My facebook feed looks like a dream to most people. I always try to post a picture of whatever city/exotic location I'm visiting. What they don't see is that I only had five minutes to take that picture before I had to go to rehearsal, play the concert, or catch the bus transfer. Unless we're staying in one place for a longer project, I don't have any time to walk around or see the city. There's a big difference between touring for work and being a tourist.
I hit a low-ish point on Thanksgiving 2014, about five months after I joined the band. We'd just finished a concert in Berlin and I was feeling homesick. I just wanted some pumpkin pie. I'm the only American in the group, so everyone else went back to the hotel to sleep or have a drink in the lobby. I walked around for a few hours and eventually found a cheesy American-themed diner around 1 in the morning. I was excited for a minute, until I asked inside and found out they didn't know it was Thanksgiving and had never heard of pumpkin pie. I had to settle for a glass of Hefeweizen and a sub-par burger.
The worst tour story I know about happened a few years before I joined. The group was playing in Istanbul when those volcano eruptions in Iceland forced all air travel in Europe to be cancelled for two weeks. The group had a concert in Frankfurt, Germany, two days later and had to charter a bus to drive them through the night. They were on a bus for 40 hours and had to go straight to rehearsal on arrival.
Wait, no. The worst tour they did was in 2003. They were placed under quarantine on a trip to Taiwan during the SARS outbreak. They had to spend two weeks days trapped in their hotel, under the impression they were all going to die.
Edit: Found an article about the SARS thing. They were quarantined for two days before being allowed to leave the country following a medical examination. Article
Oh my mistake, I should've clarified that I'm talking about rock bands or western music where it's like 3-6 people in the group. Orchestras do a bit better and in America, more likely recognized for doing Union work and getting those wages via the AFM and stuff like that.
I knew you were talking about rock bands, but touring is touring. Our band is not unionized (we're based in Germany), and it's not uncommon for us to have working conditions the AFM would never accept. The musicians own the organization, which is really uncommon in classical music.
We do have an office and staff who handle our travel arrangements, stage and road crew to handle equipment, and a manager who books the gigs, but that's a luxury the group had to work for over a decade to get. Of course it's not the same as driving cross country in a van to play $50 gigs in divey clubs, but there's an even bigger difference between that and a headliner rock band playing sold out stadiums. We never get the superstar treatment.
Back in the 80's, the percussionists were loading, driving, unloading, setting up, rehearsing on, performing on, taking down, and reloading all their own equipment for every show. Those sets can often include hundreds of pieces of percussion and stands, and I can't imagine how they had the energy to do that every day.
Full size orchestras are a very different beast. Tours are rare, expensive, and very well organized. If an American orchestra wants to do a five city European tour, they will need at least $1 million to pay for it. Normally, they will charter a flight for their 80-100 musicians and accommodate them in four star hotels. Since, at most, this would happen once a year, the musicians see it as more of a vacation than anything else. Five cities a year is a fun trip. 100 cities in a year is torture.
Wow! I'm super impressed. It's great that your orchestra has a good support staff, but I can easily believe getting your whole group going for 100+ dates a year is crazy difficult.
Well, 100 concerts would be a very good year for us. Normally we'd be closer to 70, with perhaps 15 of those in our home town. Some of them would be chamber music shows with just 5 or 6 players, which are much easier and cheaper to organize. The most complicated projects are big stage productions with sets, actors or dancers.
I was a member of the AFM briefly before I moved to Europe. As a working musician, their conditions were super nice but a giant pain in the ass for management. It also severely limits the artistic possibilities unless you have tons of spare cash to satisfy their requirements. The AFM requires extra payment if you want the musicians to wear costumes, act, or do anything at all unusual. They control precisely how long rehearsals and breaks can be, even the temperature of the venue. The rules regarding tours are especially difficult: quality of accommodations, minimum resting time between travel and working, substantial per diems, etc. It's great for the performers, but very expensive.
Yeah, as a pro-Union person, it's a struggle. We deserve to be treated like human beings, but people really suck at understanding musicians are people and need to pay for entertainers like other things. Like, they'll throw away money on stupid plastic crap, then turn around and stiff entertainers. Lots of work to do for everyone to make this better.
mcfly357 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:19:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
my first "this sucks" moment was also thanksgiving. im from CA and we were at a cracker barrel in syracuse. it fucking sucked. and that part about being on tour is not being a tourist. people don't understand how incredibly shitty it is to drive a 35ft RV and 18ft trailer into NYC on a friday at 3pm. can't take the holland cause you got propane, can't take the lincoln cause you have a trailer...gotta take the washington bridge, but the GPS doesn't understand that. get to the end of a mile long 1 way street with 1ft of clearance on each side...then road closed..have to back out. then gotta go park at a hotel in new fucking jersey because it's faster than trying to find a parking spot.
oh, and $18 for a pack of shitty cigs. i'm so happy i didn't smoke while on tour, would have spent all my perdiem money.
I don't know what it is about Thanksgiving. They're not the kind of stories that make it into those old vh1 Behind the Music shows where your bandleader kills himself after overdosing on heroin, but they are really human moments. I'm usually so busy working that I don't take time to reflect on the kind of life I'm living and the friends and family I moved away from to have the musical career I wanted. Sitting alone in a Berlin diner while my friends back home were all eating great food together, that was lonely. Not cry-in-my-beer sad, but definitely sit-and-ponder sad.
Last year wasn't much better. I was in rehearsal until 10:30 at night and came home to some frozen pizza and a bottle of bourbon. I had an American friend visiting at the time, so at least we weren't alone.
mcfly357 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:50:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
also, just missing big life events at home. i missed my niece and nephew being born cause i was in europe. i've missed weddings, i've missed funerals, and it just doesn't get easier in that regard. i definitely think that's the hardest part about touring full time -- just missing the important life events that normal people go through. then i get home, and all my friends are getting married and having kids...buying their first house, etc...and i'm going to the whiskey with a flask in my back pocket haha. i guess it's a trade off, and one that i still think was worth it. i've been to 48 states and like 30 countries, and have many many amazing stories to share. but i'm not gonna lie, every once in a while, i wonder if i made the wrong choice.
And even if you're not driving, being in the car 8 hours to sound check at 6pm, then sell merch until you're on at 11 or later leads to some of the longest work days I've ever had.
mcfly357 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:09:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
thank you for writing this! you hit the nail on the head.
i did this for ~4 years with 2 bands (metal/screamo/whatever stupid niche genre the kids say we are). i was out like 300 days a year. missed EVERYTHING. people also don't understand how expensive touring is. we started in a van, then had an rv, and eventually were headlining big festival tours (like warped tour) in busses..but as you get paid more, the expenses go up. people don't realize that bus cost us 60k for the tour. our crew cost 40k. everyone has to eat, etc. it was an absolute blast, but the sacrifice is insane, and i'd say 95% of people couldn't handle the conditions. i've had a few buddies come out to sell merch for us thinking it would be the greatest/easiest job ever, and quit within a week.
readjusting to real life was really rough too. can't sleep if i'm not in a moving vehicle, everything is too quiet. i'm sure you know the feeling.
however, i miss it so fucking much. every single tour...after 2 weeks, you want to come home..then after 2 weeks at home, you want to go back out. oh the life of a touring musician.
are you still doing it?! if so, i wish you the best of luck! even with the sacrifices made, it's the best job in the world.
Haha yeah metal bands are even harder for conditions. It's like the industry expects a broke 80's punk mindset where everyone sleeps in the floors of the vans because they spent the hotel money on heroin...except now there's no heroin/hotel money to begin with, so park the van in the corner of Walmart, but none of the drug high! Hahaaa
It's cool that you got to rise through the ranks. Nice to hear stories of breaking into the 1% who get to have a bus (let's be honest, millionaire artists are the 0.00000001% haha)! But it must be better having a life again haha
It's hard to readjust either way. I'm off the road working as an accountant cause of not having money, but I'm looking to move back to LA for grad school and do some auditions with the talent scout I know while I'm there's and see what happens.
mcfly357 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:44:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
totally man. our label (both bands were on rise records) told us once that literally 99% of bands cannot sustain themselves on tour, like literally not make enough for gas money + food. it's crazy how expensive touring is, even when you're roughing it. in the van days, we'd always say "when we have enough money for busses, we'll stay in the van to make money!!!" but then once you experience the bus/crew, there is no going back haha. it got to the point where i'd much rather be comfortable and broke then live in a van with 8 guys and a dog and have a few bucks on me.
i'm a data analyst now for a tech company in LA, for the same reason you mentioned. needed to pay rent, and although both bands were successful and making money, i never saw any of it (partially getting screwed by the industry, part of it getting screwed by other dudes in the band being assholes). kind of just fell into this.
feel free to hit me up when you get to LA though! i still have a ton of contacts in the industry, and i'm always getting messages asking if i know anyone who plays x instrument for y tour blah blah. also, it's just rare to find anyone who "gets it", and i'd love to hang/swap tour stories! i'm sure you have some just absolutely batshit ridiculous tour stories, as do i. i've seen some CRAZY shit haha.
man, this convo has been super nostalgic for me and now i miss it more!!! one of my bands is actually in the early stages of doing a reunion record. starting to record again is so fun. we also played a reunion show last year at nokia (at LA Live) with my favorite band of all time which was amazing and totally got me back in that mindset. i swear touring is like an addiction. the itch to play live just never goes away...especially if you've played huge shows in the past. unfortunately, it's so hard to get relevant again.
edit: i'm actually leaving to go to NAMM right now in anaheim, so i'm sure after today i'm going to decide to give it another shot after playing with all the new toys haha.
Same vein truck driver only there is no one else on the bus to talk to its you the road an maybe a dog mayb a partner but for the most part it's you an your missing out on the family an friend events some days it's awesome your climbing the Rocky Mountains sun is shining the lake below is pristine other days ure in a snowstorm battling against every other car driver Mother Nature an idiots in trucks who don't bother with chains an you need to b delivered in Calgary before you've even loaded in Vancouver!! It is not just driving around listening to the radio!
Brio_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:04:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
miss out on family and friends events like weddings and birthdays and especially watching kids grow up, holidays
How can I get in on this?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:50:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My dad used to tour with a bunch of big country artists back in the 90s and early 2000s. He explained that the reason artists sometimes get the wrong city when they play is because it's just a constant repetition of "get on bus, travel to the city, wait, play show, get back on the bus, rinse and repeat until the end of tour," so sometimes they don't even realize what city their in or forget.
Haha classic rookie mistakes, but they still happen. This is avoided now in two ways. 1) writing the name of the city (and today's date) on the set lists onstage 2) the "tour laminate" ID cards that are on your belt loop should have all the tour dates on one side of the card.
dreydier ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:51:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It seems glamorous. You could be in a beautiful city for the night to play. Never get to see anything except the inside of the venue and then be on your way to the next one. I got around that a little bit by having Sunday shows in a city I wanted to check out, having Monday off or with a mid-afternoon call, Tuesday having a short-ish drive scheduled.
Yerwun ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 22:03:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a clinical psychologist or psychiatrist generally. Do you know how long either of them spend in college and training? And while having a condition yourself gives you a valuable perspective, it does not make you an expert either.
Well, I'm a trained therapist myself, and one of the primary advantages I have with my caseload is the fact that I provide services to people who suffer from the same MH issues that I do. It actually helps. But it's not enough. I had to do school, more school, some more school, and then my practicum. It was exhausting. And worth it.
Aside from a few possible exceptions, I don't think I want a therapist with the same MH issues treating me. If it's the empathy, that's what (hopefully) friends and family are for. I want my therapist with evidence-based methods and results that match.
There's also the very real risk of said afflicted therapist projecting into the treatment, because damn it he/she knows the research is wrong about that part of the illness.
tl:dr I've met many shrinks on a crusade. Come find me when your peers agree.
A valid concern, truly. In my case, it's a matter of it being a common issue that affects a large percentage of the US populace. So having that in my back pocket helps. YMMV, and I'm certainly not recommending that you seek one out that specifically has that empathy.
All methods used in my personal practice are evidence based methods. No Bible thumping, no Big Book recitations, none of that garbage. Why? Because I know from personal experience that it's bullshit. Yes, the 12 step program helps, an yes, I recommend it to my clients, but it's not for everyone, and it's less about the book than the fellowship. 12 steps =/= therapy.
Yes, some therapists (particularly family therapists) project their issues onto their clientele. This is bad. Crusading is bad for their practice, and more importantly for their clients. Objective, scientifically proven methodology works, being a bro with your clients does not.
Currently doing my MA in Psychology to be a Psychologist, and the answer? A damn long time. 3 years for a BA in Psych, 3 years in a masters which involves 1 year of full MA level coursework, 1 year of a Thesis, and 1 year of a full internship of 1500 hours plus extra coursework.
Then if you want to specialize into Clinical, its even more work.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:28:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It really is. I'm aiming for Clinical and I missed the deadline for getting into the Clinical Psych Masters, so I'm doing an ordinary Masters in Psych then I have to specialize in my Doctorate.
Oh and if I don't lift my GPA in both semesters I cant continue.
This is going to be a rough year.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:44:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Also, counselors are not the same as psychiatrists. Being an impoverished rape victim with a mentally abusive step-father, I kept going to counselors and they could not even begin to help me with my problems.
I know this is a broad brush stroke, but many/most psychiatrists these days have their script pad out before first session. I'm neither a rape victim nor medical professional, but addressing something like rape (so sorry that happened to you, OP) has to at at least include cbt, right??
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:53:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was seeing counselors, they often only have like a bachelor's or master's and aren't trained in cbt. I couldn't afford a psychiatrist.
As someone who is interested in working with sexual assault/abuse survivors, can I ask what do you think would have made a good counselor for you? If you don't really know how to answer that question, I understand, and I know each person is different. I just want to help in the best way possible.
Not OP, I think you're right when you say everyone is different, but for me I really didn't like that the absolute first question I was asked was "So tell me all the graphic details of your rape." Before getting to know me at all.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:52:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Are you planning on being just a counselor or doing doctoral work and becoming a psychiatrist? My issue was that I couldn't afford a psychiatrist. The counselors that I worked with always reminded me that they were not trained in dealing with my specific issues. The real problem here is that the people who need the most help are the same people who can't afford that help.
You have no idea. I'm severely depressed, my entire family thinks the best way to fix it (and the only thing to talk to be about) is to just "be happy and think happy thoughts".
Glad to see someone mentioned this. I work in mental health. It's amazing how many people, when their careers in business or whatever are starting to bore them, say, "I think I'd make a great therapist" with no appreciation of the training required.
Furthermore, the number of my clients who, when they're getting better, say, "I think I should become a therapist/counsellor because of what I've been through." And when you politely ask what they think the job will be like, "Well, I'll tell them all about what happened to me . . . " WRONG
Yeah. And yet you, the therapist, have done none of that and disclosed very little about yourself (because that's how that works). Oy. I feel yah.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:23:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's true. I'm depressed myself but I can't help others for shit, even though I'm going through something similar. All I can do is sit there being just as miserable :(
Mchill23 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:22:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Glad I read through this before posting. You beat me to it. I do not know a single person afk who is willing to understand that depression is a medical condition, not a fucking thought process.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:15:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just chin up! Smile! Choose to be happy ;)
ba203 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:29:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Just walk it off." "Go get laid." "Have a night out with the girls"
"... you don't understand how depression works, do you."
"Look, we all have down days."
... aaaaand that's when I drowned them in the pool, Your Honour.
This is not something I've ever thought I could do nor wanted to do, but it is unfortunately something I had to do. It barely worked out, and as it turns out I have a talent for it since I mother was trained to deal with it and I learnt a lot off of her.
Dockirby ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:16:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
More specially, good advice. Because just giving advice is in fact very easy.
Also all the people who think they are Psycholgist's when they don't intend to get anything after a BA.
ofoot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:02:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I second this. I tried to help my depressed friends from various forms of advice.... But only they can get themselves out. You just have to be there for them and that's the best you can do.
[deleted] ยท -35 points ยท Posted at 18:59:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
It's a poorly told joke if a lot of people think you're being serious, especially when it comes to jokes about encouraging suicide. There actually are internet trolls out there that sometimes encourage depressed people to commit suicide.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:32:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The '=D' and '!' means they weren't being serious.
[deleted] ยท 132 points ยท Posted at 13:35:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Write poetry and stories. Sure anyone can write. But writing literature that will be accepted for publication/win a competition? It's a proper craft that is hard and takes a long time to do well. I've met many amateur writers who think they're an undiscovered genius but they don't even think about editing a first draft. Most of the things you write will be utter shit. It's one of the first things you should learn and accept.
ericpaz ยท 200 points ยท Posted at 16:53:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wish people
would realize
that
writing lame prose
broken up
into lines like this
does not actually count
as free verse
I've seen people not even realize that a line break doesn't mean you're supposed to pause in reading a poem out loud.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 21:01:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
vanderv ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 23:12:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Historically they were broken up to aid memorization, so we could share long works before we could write them down.
In modern poetry they break the work into logical chunks that can then be compared line to line; this allow writers to highlight things like parallelism in semantic, tonal or allusive content etc.
Especially poetry. A lot of people think it's a step above journaling. I have an MFA in poetry and am pursuing a career. When I tell people I often get an adult version of "that's cute". I'm not journaling! I'm not documenting my fucking feelings! It involves a lot of reading, awareness of the field, laborious hours writing and revising for a single poem. Not to mention that in order to support it you have to teach, so it's like having two full time jobs. Thank you for posting this :-)
I minored in Creative Writing. Poetry workshop courses were always frustrating because most people would bring in what were essentially emo song lyrics. I always tried to be professional and give constructive criticism on how their work could improve, but in most cases it was pointless. (Not that my own work was any good; I'm sure it was just as bad.)
I minored in creative writing too. I liked poetry workshops, but instead of people bringing in "emo song lyrics" there were artsy fartsy poetry snobs. I still get annoyed when I remember some girl in poetry class saying she thought rhyming was "juvenile." I like poetry and like writing it but so much of what's popular now seems to me to be "Make it so weird no one can understand it and then call it artistic."
I like poetry and like writing it but so much of what's popular now seems to me to be "Make it so weird no one can understand it and then call it artistic."
God, you are so right. I'm currently doing my MFA in poetry and am an editor for a big lit journal and so many of my editors will only vote to take things that are so weird and abstract that they MUST be good.
If you really want to be depressed about the state of poetry, try this website that asks you to guess if a poem was written by a human or a computer: http://botpoet.com/
LOL, I know exactly what you mean, especially on the undergraduate level.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:06:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Crazy how a poem-for-your-sprog makes it looks so easy.
[deleted] ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 17:22:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Okay this might be really controversial but here goes:
The poems are funny and clever but they're not grade-A quality by a long way. It looks so easy because it kind of is. Almost anyone can write a poem like she does if they know how to rhyme and count syllables because that's pretty much all she does. I enjoy the account and they make me laugh, but in terms of the craft of poetry, they're just that: good fun.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:40:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Okay this might be really controversial but here goes
Lol don't worry about that. Reddit get off on contrarian views like that.Even this post might get upvoted because it's calling reddit out on it's own contrarianism. The circle-jerks and counter-jerks never end, even if you have a valid opinion on a matter.
But I suppose that makes sense(In reference to PFYS). Popular content on the internet is rarely the most esoteric.
Yeah, I've always thought this. I'm amused by the post and all that follows is replies like "LITERALLY ROBERT FROST", as if a funny rhyme is a masterwork of the language.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:35:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wouldn't expect Sprog to make grade-A poetry since he takes, what, an hour at most to write them? I think Sprog's appeal lies more in his ability to quickly and consistently write amusing and sometimes touching poems about any random subject. If I read his poems in a book, I don't think they would have anywhere near the same charm that they do when I come across one in a thread.
Usually a combination of poems, a critical essay (this would be writing on someone else's work, usually analysis of a single poem), a personal statement, letters of recommendation, and sometimes the GRE.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:08:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Oh, LOL! There aren't any. To be successful as a poet means to publish books and establish enough of a reputation to be desirable for full time positions in creative writing departments at universities. You don't need a degree to do that. People enter MFA programs to become better writers. It may help you on an application if you have a couple books under your belt, but the couple books are what you need. The degree alone will get you nothing if you're not published. Personally I had an excellent experience at my MFA and am a much stronger writer in ways I couldn't have developed had I not gone. But I went knowing it would get me no job besides the crap adjunct position I have now where I get paid below the poverty line. Maybe someday I'll get to the point of being qualified to teach as a full time creative writing faculty member, but most of us won't.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:46:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Damn, Poetry MFA, nice one, I bailed as fast as I could after my Fiction B.A. Always been a little bit jealous of poets, mostly because I suck at poems but also because I always figured you'd need an amazing work ethic to keep up with it, which is something I don't quite possess. If I did maybe I'd actually finish a story I've started for once :/
That aside, oh man I hate the reactions to creatively-focused degrees. "Oh, you write? That's cool... so what's your real job?" Dude... try it. It is a job, not some hobby that you master overnight...
Poets having a strong work ethic is a serious myth! Some do, some don't. I have friends who stick to regimented writing schedules and friends who are totally sporadic about it. I haven't found there to be any correlation between the strength of their work and how they get it done either. Personally I'm a basket case when it comes to writing. No work ethic whatsoever. I write when I feel like it, and I don't see anything wrong with that although it's really frowned upon in the poetry community.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:52:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As I commented above, I minored in creative writing in college. There was no lack of criticism of my and others' writing in the program. I didn't much like some of what seemed to be the philosophy of the fiction classes, especially that anything beyond "literary"/realistic fiction was looked down on. If you tried to write anything remotely fantasy the professors hated it. Granted, fantasy is hard to do well, and I suppose being grounded in writing more realistic things first could help, but I didn't see a reason for the complete disdain fantasy and sci fi were shown by the professors.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:03:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I very badly want to write, and the current project I'm working on is slowly coming together. But I'm still in the process of blueprinting. I need to know my characters, I need to know so many little intricate details of the plot, themes, etc before I even dare to try and type out anything. I got the current idea back in the summer and have been ironing it out. Other ideas that I toy around with have been in my head for well over two years and I've still been unable to make any moves on them.
It's really maddening because I feel that this is something I would like to do, but to actually go through your idea and nit-pick it so it would actually read well, even only in theory, really puts how shitty things are in a spotlight. I think it's a good practice to get into, but I'll be damned if it doesn't also destroy your will.
It's slowly coming together I guess. I have a buddy who actually has some published short stories and in explaining my idea to him he's said he quite likes it because it's kind of dark, like a modern Huck-Finn gone wrong.
That's another thing I always worry about too. How much of what I want to write has been done? What ideas am I just re-hashing? At first when he had used Huck-Finn to describe it I was like, "ah yea!" since The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn was one of my favorite stories when I was in highschool. But then I thought, "wait, does this essentially just mean the themes I'm exploring have already been done by someone much more talented than I?"
In this case not really. It shares similarities in that it's about youth exploring the far fringes of society and accepted norms. What I'm exploring does have a bit of a darker feel to it though.
I have so many ideas for short stories as well and even that just hasn't gotten any traction because I spend so much time trying to iron out the plot and make sure there's no holes and such. I got an idea for something in March two years ago and have still been bouncing it around in my head. It would work well as both a long narrative or a short story and I really don't know what direction to take it in, but before that can even be considered I need to make it much more believable as well.
It's so fucking hard.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:18:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I'd argue that every single writer - even best selling authors - always have the same struggles you've described. At least you realise it and know it though. It doesn't get easier but things like "It makes me lose my will" does get easier. I meet far too many amateur writers who believe they're the 1% of writers who don't struggle like we do and it's ridiculously delusional. Taking writing seriously does force you to face harsh realities: sometimes even talent doesn't matter and you're not entitled to be successful. There is hardly anyone on this planet who gives a shit about your post-apocalyptic dystopian scfi trilogy. Getting people to care is about networking, luck, and talent. Being a great writer is a small portion of it all and that's hard enough.
This is the hardest reality to face of all: you could write half a million words and spend five years on your novel...and it'll probably be shit.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:32:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is the hardest reality to face of all: you could write half a million words and spend five years on your novel...and it'll probably be shit.
Word, that's exactly why before I venture putting my ideas on paper I need to make sure it all sounds great in theory. I need to make sure that in creating this story in my head I can't take key elements of it and be like, "well wait, theres a hole in the plot here, here, here, this is fluff, this is ridiculous, and this... Well....this is just nonsense!"
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:34:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is why I never edit until I pump out a first draft. The same problems arise of course, but at least I have a draft done even if it's 90% rubbish.
I made a site with Wix. It even has links to Twitter and Facebook. My family and friends say it looks professional. I am now ready to advertise my web design services to local businesses.
Honestly, go for it. 90% of the time that's all someone needs - someone with half a clue that can set up a Wix site for them.
But unless you want to end up in a special sort of hell, know when to say no. Don't take on clients that want more than you offer, and when someone asks for changes or features to be added that you can't do, just refer them somewhere else. You might even be able to form a relationship with a higher-tier service provider - they'll kick the "I only have $500 and need my business card on the internet." clients to you in exchange for you sending the "Okay, I'm ready to start an eCommerce site now." clients to them.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:26:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a web developer, I find that a lot of people in the industry have forgotten the whole purpose of most businesses having a website - to provide information.
Whether the website for Joe's Pizza was built on Wix/Squarespace, by Joe's nephew, or by a hired professional really doesn't matter. If Joe has good pizza, people will buy his pizza - he site just needs to be not too bad at showing that information.
cwlsmith ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:39:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Basically, any "non-traditional" form of art. Graphic design is another big one.
I unfortunately know enough of these "artists" to cause my blood pressure to rise just thinking of it. I know some very good, well trained web designers, photographers, and graphic designers who have lost out on jobs to "artist" who think because they know some html, photoshop, or own a camera that they are professional level. In the end they get money, the clients get crap quality and the the people who know what they are doing move away to get work or take up side jobs to pay the bills.
Oh man the last company I worked for hired this guy who was a complete jackass. He wasn't a good designer, refused to listen about design principals, &c but he was creative. Every time he'd try to push a site toward production I'd end up changing 90% of it and running it through validator to show him his html fuckups. I'd send it back and he'd get pissed. He'd go to the owner of the company and get his completely jacked up page up.
Within two weeks my changes would be implemented and the page would convert at least 10% better. In one case it was something like 60% because the dumbass screwed up button placement so bad.
Fuck...now I am angry.
cwlsmith ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:29:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's the thing too. Good artists charge a decent amount of money because it's worth it. Clients don't necessarily understand why it might be higher. So then they get a quote from someone who says they can do it for $100 and the client goes with them because it's cheaper.
It's unfortunate. The client doesn't know what is good and bad 90% of the time, so it's all about money.
Yeah I remember I was helping some friends with a deal one time for redoing a website. They made a bid that was actually really cheap for what they were providing and got under bit by someone's niece or something by about half. In the end the site that went up looks like a late 90's geocities template site, this was in 2010.
a.k.a. what I want to go to college for :) well, specifically graphic design, but I'd probably be using my degree to work in web design (and minor in photography).
Do you work in either of those fields? Do you have any tips?
Tip 1 - Hope you're good at dealing with difficult clients who have no idea what they want and barely understand computers or technology.
Tip 2 - Learn to translate bad input into positive changes then trick client into thinking it was their idea that made the design great.
Tip 3 - Web Design is a bitch, there are many subfascets - Design, Development, Consultation, Client Relations, Sales of Contracts and Billing. Sometimes the lines blur so I hope you're good at all those things.
Tip 4 - Never charge less than 1,000 - 2,000 for even something basic, the work is in the relationship not only in the photoshop time.
Tip 5 - Charge for everything, keep your pimp hand strong.
I'll say this though, I'm that industry your success is often tied to your portfolio. So work hard and try and gain as much experience as possible early on and start building up a professional looking portfolio.
bureX ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:59:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
laterdude ยท 120 points ยท Posted at 13:37:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Directing a movie.
You have a DP to shoot your movie and a screenwriter to pen the script. Audiences aren't that discerning and a 'one take and that's a wrap' guy like Clint Eastwood has more Oscars than a perfectionist like Kubrick. Tom Ford went from the fashion world to directing A Single Man, which earned a 85% on Rotten Tomatoes, so how hard could it be?
Once in a while one of those "how hard could it be" guys has the chance to make a movie. The studio gives him a good PD, screenwriter, cutter and actors. While filming they realize the pictures look great but they didn't contribute anything, the actors are great but don't know what they should do because the director doesn't understand his script. While cutting he finally realizes he has no idea what kind of movie he wants to make.
I feel goddamn awful for posting this (hence the throwaway) and it'll probably make me sound like an asshole. Hell, it probably does make me an asshole.
I think I'm in a relationship with one of these types, and I have no idea how to help her. She's a great person, lovely, and kind and is studying to realise her dream of being a film director. She has the opportunity to be filming stuff now, access to other students who want to make films and would happily be under her direction, but she just doesn't find time.
She and her friends are so sure that it's easy, that they can just do it. They think the work their lecturers set is trash; she's ready for the big time, she just needs a studio to give her a shot and she'd make something amazing.
I feel terrible, because I do love her, but I cannot see this ending any way but badly for her. I have no idea what I can do to change anything, she sure as hell won't listen to me about it, because what do I know?
CDRuss0 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 06:58:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I posted about this above, but directing feature films is damn hard. Imagine you're coordinating a wedding, only this wedding lasts for 12-14 hours a day, 6 days a week, for 6 weeks. And that's just the shoot itself. There's also months (sometimes years, like in the case of mad max) of prep, tweaking script, casting, planning, storyboarding, mountains of paperwork (SOOOOO MUCH PAPERWORK), and after all of that work you then have to sit in a dark room with an editor for months and months. And the entire time you've got producers bankrolling the thing, and every day they scrutinize and criticize your work. And then it gets released, and its scrutinized and criticized by everyone who sees it. Filmmaking is by no means easy, and directing is the hardest job in the business.
That's a great analogy, I wish I could show it to her without her seeing (and probably taking very personally) my critique of her ambitions. I'll definitely bear it in mind when I'm talking to her about it in future, so thank you!
Thanks for your advice. I probably made it sound like she does less than she actually does - she's directed a few things before in high school and now at college; they're not awful by any stretch, I just wish I could motivate her to do more, find her style, what works and stuff. (Her college lets her borrow all kinds of expensive equipment I'd kill to have access to if I wanted to direct a film!)
In a way, the praise she's gotten for her work so far may have lulled her into a false sense of security, but I'll definitely be trying to encourage her to do more work, and probably end up doing some with her. Do you have any more advice for an aspiring director I could pass on?
I wrote another comment about this: He is a writer with a vision and not spme guy who wants to make a movie for the sake of making a movie.
[deleted] ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 21:11:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
His early work was a little too new wave for my tastes, but when Pulp Fiction came out in '94, I think he really came into his own, commercially and artistically. The whole movie has a clear, crisp style, and a new sheen of consummate professionalism that really gives the scenes a big boost. Tarantino's been compared to a plagiarist, but I think Quentin has a far more bitter, cynical sense of humor.
In '09, Quentin released Inglorious Basterds, his most accomplished movie. I think his undisputed masterpiece is "The Hateful Eight", a movie so well-scripted, most people probably don't listen to the character beats. But they should, because it's not just about the pleasures of conformity, and the importance of trends, it's also a personal statement about the playwright industry itself.
The director still makes a lot of creative decisions concerning the way it's shot. The DoP makes the shots the directors want look good through lighting, angles and framing.
Dear god, yes. Playing instruments, writing music, singing, whatever.
Sorry! Some of you are REALLY BAD AT DRUMS AND HAVE NO SENSE OF RHYTHM AND RANDOMLY HITTING EVERY SINGLE DRUM AND COMPLETELY LOSING THE BEAT IS NOT HOW YOU DO A FILL!!
/angry trained musician
Jarmatus ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 00:41:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drumming is the hardest thing anyone has made look easy.
Goddamn, I have skills on bass and guitar, but at no time would I ever consider myself remotely adequate at drums. I can't even hold a steady quarter note kick, and I play bass!
Jarmatus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:07:48 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Rhythm section instruments: everyone's like "I could do that", very few actually could.
Making music is hard. Editing post production is harder. Getting people to listen is the hardest.
Q_ballin ยท 544 points ยท Posted at 17:30:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
ITT: Everything is super hard. How dare you even try.
I fold paper airplanes for a living and a lot of people think they can do it but as a professional you really see the difference.
Most people dont even line up their sheet edges let alone crease the seam. The amount of botched jobs i see on a daily basis is really pretty scary when you consider just how crowded airspace is. Eyes can be POKED OUT if a plane isnt constructed properly.
Now a days with technology making it cheaper and easier than ever amateurs are folding legal and even tabloid sized, multi-sheet aircraft without realizing that you cant just put some bullshit watermarks on your planes, make a facebook page and call yourself a professional.
[deleted] ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 23:40:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Lots of people think taking a shit basically consists of dropping your deuce in the nearest toilet. What they don't realize is that there are literally thousands of toilet designs, and bathroom designs, not to mention all the navigation you have to do just to find a building with a bathroom.
What kind of toilet paper are you going to use? If you're not carrying 1, 2, and 5 ply rolls in your backpack you seriously need to reconsider taking a shit.
What if you just fart and nothing comes out? What if it's the runs, and it happens when you're on an airplane? How do you manage your dick during the whole thing?
People will spend hours watching fucking Matlock and still pick up nothing about the fine art of dropping the kids off at the pool. Every time that guy is offscreen he's shitting. But nobody ever realizes this - they think he's a normal TV character with anus.
Wrong. Leave it to the professionals people - it's easier than you might think to end up without toilet paper, or sitting too long on reddit and having it crust up, or even just freaking out the small child who just walked in with his father. You can have an aneurysm or maybe have a rat crawl up your ass. Either way it ain't the cakewalk everyone seems to think it is.
Seriously, I feel like everyone here is just complaining about people who belittle their profession, which is fair enough but it's not like everyone does it. I think the only responses I've agreed with in this thread are the ones about pro gaming and streaming/being a YouTuber.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 03:28:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you for making this point! I feel like this thread has come down to "What shouldn't people do if they don't put any effort into learning it correctly".
Mvem ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 23:51:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well become a professional photographer and you can pay for gol...
oh wait
bubongo ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:48:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You're right. Everything is super hard, until you learn how to do it properly and spend countless hours practicing and perfecting. Then it's less hard but still pretty hard.
I realize this is most likely satirical, but are there real people who's sole job is papercraft. Not where they're good at it and make really cool stuff regularly. But artists who's sole job is making papercraft stuff.
I hate people who watch all those stupid cooking shows and think they can hang, that my job is so easy. New Culinary grads, too. They walk in and expect to be running the joint because they took a few classes and can sometimes follow a recipe now, with help and plenty of time.
Becoming an executive chef at a high end restaurant is really challenging. Knowing what flavors pair well together, being able to taste the quarter teaspoon of an ingredient in a 50 servings of sauce, getting food out to tables in a timely manner and especially plating a dish in a way that makes it beautiful.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:21:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:29:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I used to work at a Home Depot. Yeah you have your 20 something year old employees who don't know what they're talking about, but a lot of the employees actually used to work in relevant trades and do actually know what they're talking about.
Of course, simply talking to one of these people does not qualify you to do electrical, plumbing or whatever else.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 10:36:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Noq64 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:01:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I used to work at Circuit City selling tv's and home theater gear. Same concept on a different scale. I was the guy who got annoyed when the product wasn't tuned right. Speakers or tv's I would always tweak with the settings. I was the guy who knew the specs and what they meant.
Spent the next few years harassing the people at best buy about their gear.
Totally out of practice now and totally lost... but loving my magic budget systems in every room.
I always hate that people discredit my Step Dad because he studied and majored in nutrition. They always call him a dietician or say "it's the same thing."
MrXian ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 17:31:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But I read a bunch of sites and posts on facebook so I know all about carbs and fats and protein and veganism and carnivority.
[deleted] ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 17:14:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:42:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
See you at whole foods.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:56:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh my god yes. I've been thin my whole life. I eat pretty (what i consider) healthy. But so many of my friends and relatives have eaten crap their whole lives and have just recently lost a bunch of weight. And now that they are thin they consider themselves nutrition experts and will proceed to criticize my food choices. I will not replace the mayo in my tuna with Greek yogurt. For the 10th time this week please stop suggesting it.
I don't claim to be an expert on nutrition, but it is pretty easy to learn the difference between good and bad nutrition to the point where you could give someone advice on what to eat. At a very high level, nutrition is very complex, but understanding what is healthy and not, and understanding common vitamin and mineral deficiencies is pretty simple.
This being said, there is a lot of misinformation in regards to nutrition, so it is important to research more when in doubt.
There are licensed nutritionists in hospitals and clinics across the US so I'm not sure what you are saying
tesity ยท 931 points ยท Posted at 13:27:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
YouTubers.
I know that PewDiePie's channel rakes in 6 figures + every year and many people think that it's just some guy filming himself playing video games. Although that is part of the job, it's not the whole thing. You need to have some sort of charisma, charm and humour in order to do it 'professionally'.
Maysock ยท 324 points ยท Posted at 16:53:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My mom asked this about my brother. She said "well, he likes playing games, maybe he could make money at it."
I said, "Yes, he likes playing games, and he's good at them, but does he enjoy recording it, commentating, editing, adding effect, and publishing on a tight deadline?"
Probably not. He probably could be good at it, but he's never had an interest in any of those things, so I'm not sure it would work out unless he threw himself into it 110%.
It's also easy to see why it has taken off. First of all it gives me access to games I dont have the time or sometimes a good enough computer to play. Secondly I get an interesting perspective on the game in the case of some streamers ( My personal fave for this is Adam Koebel. He is a tabletop game designer and when he plays stuff he tends to discuss the tropes he encounters) or a funny running commentary. Also the best streams have active communities that make it feel like your not sitting alone doing feck all. Your watching your favourite streamer get hosed at bloodbowl because his joke team based entirely on 80's action movies isnt doing great.
Maysock ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:59:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh sure, people who like doing a thing also tend to like watching other people do it well, and the connectivity of modern multiplayer makes singleplayer games feel so... lonely.
I get it completely, but that doesn't mean it's not weird. If you told someone in 1980 we'd all be wrapped up in little pocket screens, and they'd be our primary method of communication, they would've looked at you like you were weird. Likewise, if you said one of the most lucrative new forms of media was watching other people play videogames, they'd think you were nuts. And those people aren't always even good at it. I love game grumps, but Arin suuuuuuuuuuuuucks at games.
oh imo the ones that are great at games aren't interesting to watch at all. Most of them focus WAAAY too much on the actual game and not presenting the game to an audience.
That's a big part of it. Sometimes your channel just won't get any traction. There's no guarantee that just because you're good people will watch you.
In a similar vein, streaming is the same way. If being good and knowledgeable was all it took, then every diamond 1 League streamer would be raking in the big ones right now.
And after all that, you have to be ready to take a shit ton of emotional punishment from anonymous internet users. Who are usually pretty savage to kids who are more successful than they were at that age.
Not to mention the fact a lot of your friends are gonna harass you to "feature" them on your videos and demand a (hefty) share of the profits from that video just because they said a couple lines, of course not helping with the editing, publishing, special effects, etc.
Isn't it very easy to produce the videos for gaming especially? One of the reasons why gaming is so popular on Youtube is that uploaders can put out tons of content since there is no need to edit really. Now the content itself is very difficult, especially trying to do it under pressure on a deadline.
It's far easier, but there's a huge difference in effort between a bad video and a good video. Some videos can be edited very quickly, just throw the recorded voiceover and you're done (like Northernlion), and some can take a while to edit like... like Uncle Dane (who has editing in his videos) or RoosterTeeth's LetsPlay (since they have to work with 6 cameras and 6 people all talking at once, you have to mix that somehow).
The only one I know on that list is Roosterteeth, but I think I understand the jist of your point. I was referring to the videos of just recording voiceovers or recording them play the game, like Pewdiepie. Game Theory has a great video about it where MatPat talks about how one reason gamers have taken over the market in the last few years is that they can easily pump out content, since the video is usually just an hour of them playing the game. As you venture out of single player stuff, it will definitely get harder though.
nandhuco ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:35:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Don't forget advertising the videos. "I will just be a cool guy here, people will come to me" lol no, you are one among thousands
recording it, commentating, editing, adding effect, and publishing on a tight deadline?"
If you go the Twitch streaming route then you don't need to do any editing.
That being said, most streamers have to stream for a long time before they make any money, if at all.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:44:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
Maysock ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:55:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Some do. Everyone's favorite punchingbag pewdiepie is excellent about consistently putting out content and it shows in his viewership and $$$.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:22:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
Maysock ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:27:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
He has 41,000,000 subscribers, and over 11 BILLION views on his channel (the most of all time for a single channel). A week old video on his channel hits 2.5 million views easily, if not more, and he does about 1 a day... He's the 27th ranked channel on socialblade, and if nothing, his channel has been consistent in gaining 3-5 million views per video, which is super impressive. If you want to compare his daily views to another big youtuber, he's effectively 5x as popular in terms of raw views per day as Jenna Marbles.
Sure, his viewership has dropped a bit over the past few months, but the record high levels (450m views a month) was only sustained by that south park episode, then he returned back to his average he's been sitting on since July 2013, a steady 200-300m views per month. He's also consistently gaining subs, so he can't be doing too poorly. As youtube diversifies and twitch continues to take over viewer hours, I think you'll see a lot of youtubers gain subs while losing overall views, because people just gain more and more options by the day.
Pewdiepie may have reduced viewership, but so do many, many gaming channels overall and he's clearly not suffering for it.
Just like what the Congressional Chaplain said when he spoke at my school: "The wonderful thing about Congress is that anybody can be a Congressman, but the bad part is that anyone can be a Congressman."
I think this applies to the Internet, particularly YouTube.
The internet makes it so everyone does have a shot, most people think you can just stream and make money, but you have to be one of the best at the games you play for it to be easy.
I bet most people, if dedicated, spending 40+ hours a week, learning all that goes into, study's trends, at some point the entertainment industry is all a mathematical formula
The problem is, most people think it's a way lucky people get out of having a real job
_FranklY ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:32:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I record and upload to YouTube, and I get a few views, but it's mostly just so I can show friends weird crap, I'd say I probably upload 5% of what I capture, which is maybe 10% of what I play...
[deleted] ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 17:15:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
_FranklY ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:19:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not even mad
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:40:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hey does anyone know what /u/deityblade channel name is?
"Please check out my channel where everything is recorded at 15 fps with Bandicam for an unedited 25 minutes of me running around in creative mode breaking stuff and killing pigs!"
dovahart ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:29:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I find it better that they try to be youtubers at such a young age, where no one depends on them and they can figure just how difficult being successful at anything really is. If they find the challenge interesting, they might just try and succeed, whether it be in youtube or something else.
If not, at least they get what real talent and effort looks like (from their real youtuber peers)
My son is seven and really enjoys watching the let's play videos for Minecraft, Terreria and Skylanders. A very interesting side effect from this is that he can not stop talking at all while he is playing. Even points of play with no significance will still have him commentating. I don't think he knows why he does it really but it is so obvious to me as a father. My brothers would have fought me to play a game all day long when we were younger. Today keeps are happy just watching people play. I'm getting old fast.
To be fair, that's how you get good at it. I think that it's awesome that there are kids that are under ten doing let's plays. A couple of them will be pros someday.
AAfaps ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:35:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
if you look at alot of big youtubers first few videos youll relize its not a natural born talent.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:18:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My friends give me shif when I don't watch their videos. "Mate I couldn't give a flying monkey about your gta v funtage"
PewDiePie also had the fact that he moved, meaning local recommendations got spread across two countries (when he moved to Italy from Sweden) which is the main theory as to why he got so popular, the rest was snowball effect. He effectively gamed the system, although inadvertently. He's very good at what he does and reads his audience well.
Exceon ยท 53 points ยท Posted at 18:44:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Except he has stated himself that he was never on the front page of Italy's YouTube. "Just football clips all the time", he said.
Sieg_1 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 01:33:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Very few people undestand english in Italy, and because of that pewdiepie's target is already taken by his italian clone, favij. Basically he's the same as pewdipie, but speaks italian. I didn't even know that pewdipie came to Italy.
wakka54 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:57:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I highly doubt this. If this was true, it would just be a matter of buying a $2/month VPN in another country and logging into YouTube through it to boost your audience, and everybody would be doing it.
I think I saw something, way way back, which disproved that. I can't remember what it was out where I saw it though, so I don't have any proof.
CptQ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:58:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What does moving change considering its a gaming channel? I dont know this guy besides that hes playing games. Making italian vids would be more effective or not?
This video explains the PewDiePie scenario pretty well (and the channel this video is from is also really, really awesome)
EDIT: Why all the downvotes? :( I'm sure the video isn't 100% factually accurate, but I didn't think it was unrelated or unhelpful to the discussion.
unit0ne ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 19:46:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I honestly don't buy this. I don't think Pewds is popular in Italy, and Sweden has what 10 million people? Still doesn't explain why he's popular outside the UK.
Beyond the fact that Mat has a terrible track record.
Keaner81 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:02:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
He also is a pretty good editor believe it or not.
I don't think the multinationality explains it, there are tons of European channels making videos in English that aren't 1/10000 as popular as Pewdiepie.
It's just charisma. Why are some people more likable and popular than others? Why can some people rally entire nations behind them and others have trouble making a single friend? It's charisma and we don't really understand it.
Gioware ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 00:13:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I doubt it, people tend to choose something without any reason, it just snowball effect, remember flappy bird app, it does not had any charisma, it just spread.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:49:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I always toy with this idea, but then i realize, I am a 36 yr old lawyer and have virtually no charisma and only my GF thinks I am funny (or maybe those are pitty laughs... shit). But I do so love gaming and wish I could make money doing it. WTB charisma.
Give it a go in your free time. Maybe make up for your percieved lack of charisma and humour by being the no nonsense guy that people come to for solid info?
Quite frankly people making jokes and being silly are a dime a dozen. I'd like a few more channels that discuss gaming in a more serious tone and give me info I can trust.
I'm generally pretty charming and well liked. I generally do pretty well bouncing around a social event chatting with people. But I'm not charming on a "Multiple videos a week" kind of schedule. Beyond natural charisma these kinds of people are actively manufacturing this stuff and that takes a herculean effort.
Things suddenly getting popular actually happens frequently on the Internet. Things go viral every day.
The thing with YouTube is you have to work out the business aspect underneath to keep it consistent. You need to get a proper workspace or studio so you're not just filming on your bed. You need a proper sound designer to get good quality audio. A proper camera instead of your laptops webcam. Someone to edit your stuff together. A designer to make your video graphics and intros.
Like game grumps. Their channel now involves a sizeable group of people, all who need to get paid. Their videos draw lots of viewers but Arin himself says the takeaway after all the expenses are paid is not nearly as huge as people think.
Imadoc91 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:29:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Indeed, video production is very time consuming. I have some friends who do the youtube thing, but generally don't make enough off of it to not quit their day job, and I would say that every 30 minutes worth of video you upload is 4 hours of work if you know what you are doing, and aren't editing it too heavily. I have one video on my youtube channel with over 20k views, and when I got that I was super excited and decided to try making more, and failed miserably at it.
I have nothing against Youtubing for a loving but not all YouTubers have "talent". Some people play a game for an hour and edit for a few hours which isn't a very complex task if you only cut out the boring parts and add some music or pictures.
Also a lot of content is very passive and is based around reacting to a thing. Challenge video's, reaction videos, gaming video's.
Then again alot of channels do massive research, planning, writing and creativity to make.
Definitely this. Being entertaining for an audience, being able to find a target demographic, and being able to captivate them to continue to watch your content sounds very difficult. There are definitely more deserving Youtubers than others but as a whole, it sounds like a very risky profession, especially in terms of the internet where one day you can have the most popular content to people completely forgetting about you.
Not to mention the marketing and branding. This includes having a heavy presence on social media. That almost takes more time and effort than making the actual videos.
There are loads of channels that are pretty much the same, a few are popular based on a snowball effect, people watch it because everyone else is watching. Anyone could be a youtuber if they got lucky, it's like being a reality TV star.
leaflard ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:25:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You still need charm. It takes luck to be noticed.
[deleted] ยท 84 points ยท Posted at 15:19:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone could be a youtuber if they got lucky
The vast majority of youtubers can barely talk in front of a camera, the ones who are popular and make a living off of what they do are nothing like the rest.
You're just being dismissive because you don't like what they do, hence the comparison to reality TV.
I think the point he is making is that the skill to be successful is necessary but is not at all sufficient. The most talented person in the world isn't going to be successful in YouTube of they don't get a bunch of lucky breaks along the way.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 16:44:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think that's the point being made at all. I think the point being made is that Youtubers have no skill. The contempt is obvious.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:11:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:22:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not addressing whether that is true or not. I'm rejecting the idea that that is what was meant.
And OBVIOUSLY luck is required to be successful. That is obvious to anyone who has ever tried to do anything with their lives.
Yeah, rereading it, your probably right. But in the context of the post, I think that people over-emphasize the talent requirement and underemphasize the luck. But I think that's true of almost everyone who is wildly successful.
KeeperDe ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:05:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think that counts as much for youtube though. Sure luck might help you tremendously, but if you have no skill, no one will even watch you in the first place.
If you have a lot of skill all you need is perseverence. And probably a lot of it. Luck can definitely help in this stadium, but if you are entertaining and skilled, you will make it (if you put up videos regulary)
Regardless, there is still an element of luck in Youtube. Many channels now started do what they do now because they made videos in their spare time and didn't expect to get such traction. If you look hard enough, there are still many others who make videos for fun as well whos subscriber numbers never make it out of triple digits.
An example of true luck is Laina, AKA Overly attached girlfriend. She made a music video to enter into a contest to meet Justin Bieber, and then became a meme. From there she made a few more videos and decided to become a regular uploader, but once her channel took off she did it full time. It is a LOT of work once you make it into a career, but most people get to that point with a little luck.
It's getting harder and harder to make money doing Youtube, which is why so many people are turning to sponsorships and Patreon now. The REALLY successful people though, are those who use their money in more of a business sense, like Phillip DeFranco. He's spoken before on how very few make bank, and those that do rely on outside sources besides just Youtube.
Except for the part where a reality TV star some has a mildly interesting life and a cunning manager and producers and audio / video guys, whereas a YT star has to do a lot of these tasks himself AND still present all the content. Sure big channels don't do it all alone, but that's how they started out and they still do more than those reality stars.
From what I understand PewDiePie is very different from his YouTube persona in real life, but he knows that his YouTube persona makes him the big bucks, so that's what he acts like on camera.
Yeah I remember he donated over a million dollars to charity a while back. A few times I think
masonr08 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:39:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
From what I've heard, he's a actually a really down to earth guy and doesn't really flip out and cuss like he does in his videos. In a way, he's kinda like the Taylor Swift of the YouTube gaming community: extremely popular because of charm and hard work but holds themselves up through playing demographics and and knowing how to get their stuff out there. Not everyone's going to like them, but most recognize what they do and are impressed by their ways and means.
All-in-all, I used to watch PDP, but now it's not my cup of tea anymore. Still respect him for what he's done though.
Jabonex ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:45:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Like every known youtuber, i guess, you won't act like a child infront of a cops or in public.
[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 15:17:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I swear we're going through the digital age's equivalent of a gold rush. There's valuable data just lying about everywhere and everyone wants to cash in on it.
Plus he spends insane amounts of time recording and editing. Its a lot more than just playing. A lot of the time he will have pre recorded footage and add in his screaming later. Not so easy to just crank that shit out.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:45:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You also have to be able to talk and play at the same time constantly. I've seen many wannabe LPers who will go half a video without taking because they're focusing on the game, or running in circles because they're too busy talking to play.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:02:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
you need to have a shit ton of charisma charm and/or humor because you're competing with a million billion other people who are doing the same thing because everyone and their dog wants to do it
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:04:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I literally just uploaded videos of me feeding a squirrel. A week later I have almost about 150k channel views in 4 videos. Although I haven't been able to upload in a while because he hasn't been around due to the cold :(
Also, you have to know what you are doing on the editing side. Say what you will about PewDiePie, but he consistently puts out at least one five minute video. Sure, it isn't always the most sophisticated editing sometimes, but the time and effort you have to put in to get out that much content is admirable on its own.
The thing is that many of those YouTube stars started very small and grew over time in size and skill. So the now established ones already have a certain quality. Newcomers have to be on point even at entry level to be competitive. Video editing is key for YouTube imo since people want to have a dense viewing experience.
Twitch on the other hand has varying stream quality since everything is live especially on mid tier level. Consistency and charisma trumps production level there imo.
Yeah the personality part is def true. And I tried launching my own channel on my own -- it was expensive and time consuming, like $80 for each video and then I edited it myself and did some really high tech stuff and it would take hours just to finish one. Im still sad I let the project go and want to try again some day but id have to have a ton of time on my hands.
Once you get the viewers, it's pretty easy to maintain (still 40+ hour work week)
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:47:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
6 figures? Did youtube change their policies? I remember trying to figure it out for some top tier League players a few years ago and was coming up with numbers like 60k a year. Is PewDiePie like insanely more popular?
Most of the popular youtubers are also aimed towards children. look at the list of top 20 earners on YouTube. The vast majority are all gaming oriented with a couple of exceptions. These kids think they're hilarious. I know because my daughter fucking loves this crap. http://www.businessinsider.com/top-20-most-popular-youtube-stars-2014-11?op=1
My son started his own Youtube channel, he puts hundreds of hours into it (He's 13). He has about 70 videos up. He is lucky to get 10 views on one of his videos. He knows it's a long haul thing, and requires a ton of work and that he likely isn't going to make anything out of it but for now he just enjoys it.
For those who want to check it out; he'd love some extra views.
Not to mention that a ton of time goes into production. In addition to playing the game or watching the movie or whatever you're doing, there's a lot of video editing involved.
People forget to mention that he has a ridiculous work ethic. Between getting gameplay, editing, rendering, and uploading it takes upwards of 2-3 hours. Now do that 3 times per day 7 days a week.
Also, fans are incredibly demanding of Youtubers. I like watching them and I'm involved in some fandoms, and the way some people scrutinize their every move is harsh. I wouldn't be able to deal with it.
There's also not the disconnect that happens with celebrities. You are expected to connect with your fans, or they lose interest fast. This means constantly interacting, getting involved with whatever the latest social media is, trying to balance having a life and being successful on Youtube.
jackaboo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:17:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Personally I don't like Pewdiepie's channel but I have huge respect for the guy. He really knows his audience and has to meet insane deadlines.
I work in public access and you would not believe the people who think they're the next Internet sensation. Video work is hard, and yoh need more than an iphone.
Youtuber here. Sitting at about 130k subs? Freaking horrible trying to get anywhere. Mostly getting by on luck and the few skills and talents I do have.
tesity ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:22:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, what's your YouTube channel? I'd love to check it out! :)
I know you got upvoted for this, and I'll get downvoted for disagreeing with you, but here goes; It's super easy to be a professional youtuber, find a niche, upload a heap of videos, get a few subscribers, find what they want, give that to them. On a pewdiepie scale though, yeah, very hard, but it's not that hard to make money on youtube.
Professional youtubers are one step above beggars in my book, always complaining about how someone stole their video and made a hefty $120
Go to school kids
Mustardly ยท 105 points ยท Posted at 12:56:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sing. Especially if X Factor / Pop Idol is anything to go by.
[deleted] ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 16:24:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Good lord yes. I've been having singing lessons since I was 14 (now 36). I am classically trained and sing a lot of opera. I have done some semi-professional stage work but now I really only do it for the love of it. I get really annoyed with these sorts of "talent" shows when they have on singers like Paul Potts, because that is not a good representation of either Nessun Dorma or what it is to sing opera. Listen to someone like that, or someone like Russell Watson, and then listen to Placido Domingo. There is absolutely no comparison.
cputnik ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:40:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
to be fair, Paul had professional training and had auditioned for none other than Pavarotti (the audition didnt go well as he was too nervous)
the movie about him is actually quote watchable
"Potts first sang opera in the minor roles of the Prince of Persia and the Herald in Puccini's Turandot for Bath Opera, an amateur company, in 1999. He then performed leading roles on four occasions: Don Basilio in Mozart's Marriage of Figaro in 2000; Don Carlos in Verdi's Don Carlos in 2001; Don Ottavio in Mozart's Don Giovanni in 2003; and Radames in Verdi's Aida in 2003.[5][9][10] He also performed the role of the Chevalier des Grieux in Puccini's Manon Lescaut for the Southgate Opera Company in London, an amateur company, in May 2003. Additionally, he sang with a small ensemble from the Royal Philharmonic in front of an audience of 15,000 and toured northern Italy as a soloist as part of his music classes there.[9]"
this was all before his appearance on BGT
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:04:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
cputnik ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:30:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
fair enough, and i must agree with your general point
like anything in this world, there are exceptions and Paul Potts genuinely seems to be one :)
You always sound better in your head, especially when you are singing along to a song and have the actual song to correct your tone by.
As soon as you go a capella it all falls apart.
Schuano ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 21:31:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, those shows are designed to showcase the best and the worst.
The 10,000 hopefuls do not all get to see the celebrity judges.
Instead, they go through a few intake rounds.
The very, very good... They get to go in front of the judges.
The ones with good stories or an interesting gimmick... They get to go in front of the judges.
The terrible and delusional ones.... They get to go in front of the judges.
The vast, vast majority of people who are bad, okay, pretty good... they never get on television.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:00:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm so tired of people going to college so they can get a career in singing, yet they tell me I need to go to college and act like I'm gonna be a loser for not going.
I'll bet it's hard. And seriously, kudos to those people out on tours and concerts on a regular basis, singing the whole night. After I sing a couple songs normally, my voice gives out, then I get bored of whatever I'm singing.
Been singing since I was in grade school. So many people come into choir or voice lessons thinking you don't need to know any theory or technique. Some people get lucky. The rest of us have to work hhard to sound good.
eSports. People argue that it's just playing video games, but top tier teams live together and spend hours practicing, almost like a physical sports team minus the attractiveness.
[deleted] ยท 52 points ยท Posted at 17:29:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Likewise, video game entertainment (such as Let's Plays). Most people think it's just playing video games and cracking jokes, but suddenly you're sitting the talking to yourself while being shitty at a game hundreds of other people are steaming atm. If you're not naturally funny or incredible at the gamd, no one's going to watch you
My cousin is ~10 and watches a lot of Let's Plays (Great) and makes his own Let's Plays (Not great). I spent a few days staying with him and ended up watching a lot of videos of Minecraft Story Mode with him. That was actually a lot of fun, and I enjoyed the people in them. Then he decided to show me the story from the beginning. Sounds good to me, since I've enjoyed the later episodes and wanted to get a better grasp on what was happening. So he starts up the video for the youtuber we had been watching for a while, and then suddenly decides I should watch his instead. I love that kid but not his youtube videos. Every few lines of dialogue I would miss because of him shouting something spoiling a later part of the story. It doesn't help that his voice is pretty shrill.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 19:03:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You sure about that? It's been a while since I saw a "let's player" who was doing anything more than making loud obnoxious noises every time he died. I don't think any of them are funny.
sg587565 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:52:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think any of them are funny
Millions of other people do though and having such a wide appeal is not possible without a lot of hard work. People make fun of pewdipie and all but the thing is he still worked hard as shit to get to the 30mil or so subs he has, its not all just loud screams. If it was then anyone could become a millionaire on youtube.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:32:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But aren't the people who think they're funny 12? I'm not trying to be rude just isn't that their main demographic? They're only funny because they're "omgz random" and screaming and such.
sg587565 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 20:41:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
dont think its as low as 12, maybe 15-18 (still quite young i admit).
Regardless, making content for any age group, consistently, that is well liked (by most people) is something that should be respected.
Its not as simple as being loud and crazy, many ppl try that on youtube but only a few have managed to succeed because all the others lack the "charisma"(subjective, i know) and/or the hard work needed to put up the content.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:25:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, if it's not your thing, you're not going to enjoy it either. I may not enjoy, say, stand up comedy, but that doesn't mean absolutely every stand up comedian is awful. I just may not enjoy it, and that's okay.
If you're asking for recommendations, Achievement Hunter is pretty funny. It's a group of around six guys, usually, who play just a massive variety of games. Most of them have been working together for years, if not decades, so they're really close knit and bounce off of each other well.
To add to this, it's harder than even most gamers realize.
I was almost pro back in CS 1.3-1.6. In any normal server I would utterly imbalance the teams by joining. I played mostly with other almost pro clans and could hold my own as consistently one of the top players there. Once I got into the invite only leagues I would just get crushed. I mean I put up a fight but even with a fair amount of natural skill and thousands of hours of practice I just wasn't at their level. I was in the top 1% and it wasn't even close to enough to compete.
I remember watching a video for some reason about Boxer (the starcraft player) and it was saying at his level he needs to play a minimum of 10 hours a day just to keep consistent at the top level.
Professional gaming is much much much more of a chore than most people realize.
[deleted] ยท 281 points ยท Posted at 18:49:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think people think it's easy... I think they think it's dumb.
Except watching other people play isn't entertaining, at least not to me. I really cant fathom why it's even a thing to have tournaments for LoL and DOTA2 etc where people just go and watch.
This really makes my blood boil... I mean, kicking around a piece of inflated leather or throwing sharp objects at a board isn't? Just because there isn't as much physical activity as the average sport, doesn't mean it's any less impressive. The attention and state of mind required to be professional in the gaming industry is at the very least equal to if not occasionally much higher than "normal" popular sports.
Edit: Jeeeesus the string of downvotes in this thread are really unnecessary, if you don't like opinions or facts then y'all are on the wrong website.
If that makes your blood boil, then you really need to go outside more. Pro gaming is pretty much in the same category as chess, except with more colours, faster pace and more dexamphetamine.
I get out quite a lot actually, I have a handful of outdoor hobbies I partake in whenever I can (weather permitting of course) and travel between my own home and that of my SO's twice a week, doing around 80 miles over a couple days between cycling and a few buses.
In fact I have such little time inside the comfort of my own house with my PC to game on that it just makes me appreciate pro gaming that much more. I can have anywhere between 1-4 hours to spare on any given day on one game to progress- whether that's farming and raiding on GW2 or doing ranked on CSGO or LoL -that I find it insane the amount of time and effort that go into these things.
At the risk of sounding hypocritical, I hardly think it's on the same level as chess either- sure that requires strategic planning and a very specific state of mind, but the main difference here is that eSports is a very "watchable" media. For example, watching a top-down view of, say, football whereby the players kick the ball around and "make plays" with planning and tactics is comparable to that of a caster panning the camera over a LoL or DotA game as someone mid makes an exchange or trade, while bot gets ganked and top takes this opportunity of missing jungles to move in for a kill. Or perhaps seeing a Fnatic player 1v4 clutch a game on Cobblestone with nothing but a pistol, some planning and very fast reaction times.
Sports ultimately boils down to two things: discipline/training (we'll settle with a broad category of skill and talent for arguments sake), and entertainment value as a media.
I think I'm more bewildered by the entertainment value of such activities (sports or gaming alike) from a spectator perspective, I prefer actively participating -- even if I'm terrible at whatever it is. Though I have just started playing Rainbow Six Siege, which is an absolute cluster fuck without proper teamwork and practice, so I can sort of understand the spectator value there.
I definitely understand this to some degree, especially when I first started playing more competitive games. I always just thought "why not just play the damn game?", that was until I saw ESL and LCS games.
Still, I don't watch them religiously, in fact I prefer to watch YouTubers occasionally if I do feel like watching something- there's something entertaining about watching someone who doesn't suck as much as I do!
On another note; how is Siege? My friends have been telling me to get it since release but I'm so invested in Guild Wars right now that it's hard to find the time and therefore justify buying a new game.
I've only been playing the tutorial single player challenges, I'm a little wary of playing multiplayer on account of not having a headset. But if your friends are bugging you to get on it, then you definitely get in on it, it'd definitely be a blast with friends.
Riot Games (League of Legends) pays their professional players (at least in the LCS) 12.5k per split and there are 2 splits a year. Teams can pay their players more and many do.
Yes there is money, and a lot of kids are making bank on it now, but what happens when they lose their edge and start losing a lot? Or if the scene for the game ends up dying? Pro scenes for most games are cyclical, and many times they die out. Pro players like Doublelift (League of Legends) have said that there are no transferable skills once you get done pro gaming. It's not like traditional sports where you can go coach a high school team or be an analyst or something, since all your knowledge will be of a game that is no longer relevant. Heck yeah it's exciting to watch, but I'm interested to see what happens to some of these guys who spend most of their waking hours playing a videogame, and then that scene dying out. I mean I could look at examples historically, but only in the last few years has esports reached it's status as maybe being legit.
holybad ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:00:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
its not so much the money as it is a passion. also you get a huge amount of satisfaction in being able to say Im in the top.000001% of starcraft players. fuck i get a huge amount of satisfaction in saying im in the top 3% But im about 2.99% short of making any money off that skill.
edit: worth noting that the difference in skill from the players you see in premier tournaments and players like me is like way bigger than what 2.99% suggests.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:11:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And, last I checked, there aren't a lot of eAthletes (ugh, that just makes me feel wrong typing) who can play past their mid 20s due to slower reaction times resulting in their mechanics in game being just a little too slow. If they're good enough, they can transition to coaching roles, but even the most brutal sports don't force their players into retirement that early.
That's not true. There are a lot of older players older than 25 (Fear, Neo, Taz, f0rest). I think the reason pro gamers retire early is because of burnout, not "slower reaction times". When they're playing the game 10 hours every day for several years, they probably want to do something else instead.
What I'm curious of is what they do after the game though. Since a lot of times the scene for a game will die out, what do these guys do since in the time that they've played games there are like no transferable skills? Go back to school? Find work?
Is there another viable term for describing professional gamers? eAthletes does seem like they're trying to rip on the gamers themselves, which I find unfair. Maybe something that sets them apart from the conventional vocabulary?
I guess referring to them as "Pro Gamers" is probably the closest we can get, but I don't feel like it does a good enough job of distinguishing them from my buddy Dan who's totally pro at dragonball xenoverse.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:23:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
there aren't a lot of eAthletes (ugh, that just makes me feel wrong typing) who can play past their mid 20s due to slower reaction times resulting in their mechanics in game being just a little too slow
Perhaps it's the result of the job being essentially sedentary.
I watch a lot of Smash Bros Melee tournaments, and it's insane how the "6 gods" are still so insanely out of everyone else's reach. Sure they're toppled sometimes but they're so consistently better than everyone else. Even people right outside of that top six usually don't stand a chance. They've taken it on as a full time job, and can afford to with their sponsorships.
You're missing PPMD, Hungrybox, and Leffen (who many people refuse to count).
[deleted] ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 19:18:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Man I feel you on this.. Used to spend hours everyday playing Starcraft.. Started meeting the same guys at the higher end of the ladder.. Started a "semi pro" team. Or at least that's what we called it... I remember playing against a pro and got utterly shit stomped. I put down my mouse and keyboard, then started applying for jobs.
Think of how much you played back then. Now think about how much the people who crushed you must play. Finally, think about how the Koreans play. Starcraft was infamous for how much better the Koreans were, it must be crazy how much time and effort they put into a game that only lasted a few years before dying out.
I work with a guy who used to be a pro CS: Source player. Hearing him talk about it is ridiculous, like he attended training meetings with other pro players to discuss and refine video game tactics. I love video games, but there is no way that I have the skills or time it takes to become as good as pros are. Plus, you're essentially turning something you love into a chore and that has to suck.
3dots ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:55:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I average at 15 RWS and get smashed in intermediate...
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:53:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Then again some games are easier then others, CS is a REALLY hard game when you compare it to say Call of Duty which doesn't have as much strategy as it does. Fighting games though, those things are HARD to get good at.
zrvwls ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:11:21 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Haha I feel like I'm reading my own story here, went through the same thing. Regularly getting banned from public servers for "cheating", having auto-balance kick me from team-to-team on those servers, playing in a handful of PUGs with other CAL-m players who were trying to reach that last threshold of skill after the team was done scrimming and going over strats, getting demolished when you find out you are pugging against another group with 2 or 3 CAL-i friends.. The skill level at those highest levels is just ridiculous, and it went beyond just reaction time and gun skill. The ability to predict what everyone was going to do, knowing when to push/peak, use wall-shooting to poke and weaken your opponents, knowing what guns the other team was going to have based off of money, etc etc etc.. There was so much meta in CS 1.3 - 1.6, it was a truly fun and unique time to be playing, especially with all the raw talent around.
It was also always really mindblowing to watch a top-tier CAL-m team get promoted up to CAL-i, get WRECKED their first season, and THEN watch as their team either A) replace/recruit other CAL-i caliber players to stay competitive in CAL-i, B) have some of their players cheat to win enough matches (usually caught before/during playoffs) or C) hear about them playing a ridiculous amount to refine their skills and strats, and become a mediocre CAL-i team but eventually fizzle after 1 season and have all their players disperse to other CAL-m and CAL-i teams.
Yea, I had very similar experiences except I had a server i frequented which had three CAL-m level clans with people trying to go CAL-i where I spent a lot of my time. It was so much more fun than pubbing and didn't have to deal with cheat accusations often (everyone was damn good) nor cheaters (everyone knew how to spot them). I certainly pubbed, scrimmed, and played in leagues too though and our experiences match exactly there.
zrvwls ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:39:02 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I had a server i frequented which had three CAL-m level clans with people trying to go CAL-i where I spent a lot of my time
Shit you're exactly right.. Now that you mention it, I remember having one of those too, where netcode was turned off and it only had official CAL rotation DE_ maps (train, rotterdam, dust2, aztec, cbble), and there were constantly CAL-i/m players in it who played under pseudonyms... I want to say I would randomly see players like da bears in there, can't remember the name of it tho. What a small world man haha, thanks for bringing up these ancient memories!
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:51:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In my early to mid teams I was the same way in FPS. Would have loved to have a chance to play against some pros, I'm sure I would have been crushed.
CERON1 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:42:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is like me for Warcraft 3. I was rank 1 on US WEST, and for a time would have been the best player on the server. When it came to pro tournaments and leagues often I wouldn't even take a game off the semi pro players.. and these semi pros (Strifecro, Holyhuman, Pato etc) in turn wouldn't take a game off the true pros (like Grubby, Moon etc).
I was pretty high ranked in Heroes of the Storm at one point. I was/am also lucky enough to be friends with a couple of members of one of the top 2 teams on the planet in that game and have gotten to play a few games with/against them. To say they destroyed me would be a massive understatement.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:55:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Didn't that game come out 6 months ago? Not very long for a competitive scene to develop. Those are top tier MOBA players transferring their skills over.
Competitive scene has been around since beta, so longer than that
Xpdcion ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:12:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Professional gaming such as Dota2, LOL, HON or any 5v5 team game is really difficult. You need synchronization and you pretty much need to have "game sense" which every gamer things they have. Some people think theyre good enough to be in a pro gaming team just because they beat the top players on a regular queue and they end up getting smashed at round 1 usually. Competition game is harder than regular games since there is so much pressure, and one mistake can cost you the whole game.
I play HON pro gaming and Dota 2 diamond edition and the shit I have to go through to maintain my rank is really hard. I'm keeping 2 accounts on the ladder and barely hanging too.
They're also starting to realize the importance of physical health to improve their game, so many teams go to the gym 3-4 times weekly to keep up a decent physical shape. Which always helps.
Gurip ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:47:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
they are not starting to realize it, they have done it for long time, pro teams in korea have exercise time inbetween practice and personal trainers for long time even as far back as good old brood war days.
Lasereye ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:08:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think he means western teams are finally catching on.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:39:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Best 500? If you seriously want to live off of CSGO for example, you'll have to be in a Top 20 team, 20x5 players for each team = 100, now take +20 for the people that could be good enough but aren't in a team at the moment or left one and you're with the top 120 players.
And if you don't want to get paid minimum wage, you'll either have to be in a top 5 NA Team or a top 10 team globally.
darps ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 22:38:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
minus the attractiveness.
There are plenty of cute guys in esports. Those who fit the stereotype of the basement-dwelling fat neckbeard living on Mtn Dew and pizza don't usually make it because it also takes discipline and teamwork. Sadly there are still far too few girls in the scene. (Go RNG Remi)
Which is excellent, obviously. Professional gaming needs more women, I was just saying that she is trans.
darps ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:44:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm well aware, but I still don't see how it's relevant.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:52:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Kind of adding an interjection here. Though this is what I noticed people doing when they are trying to improve their skill, you don't need to play 10 hours a day to be good. What really matters is that you try to review your matches.
Look and see what what went wrong and look at what you did right, improving is all about lessening the mistakes. Play a couple matches and try to record them in some way. Then you review the worst and best matches to get a feel what you did wrong.
Our brain kinda works that way too. If you try to play for 4+ hours that also means your brain needs to process more than 4+ hours of gameplay. And by then your brain will probably be too tired to try to comprehend all that information.
So only play about 2 hours of gameplay or less. Review, then head to bed, so your body and brain rests and comprehends all that juicy MLG information.
Funkays ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:34:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not so much esports but I know a guy who plays WoW 24/7. Raids with some US 30 guild and makes his money from selling carries. Whether that's in gold or usd. Not like he makes enough though to sustain anything other than sub and weed
Don't assume just because they play games at a top level, that they are uglier than any other professional sports person. A lot of top level gamers actual look after their appearance a lot. A lot of them live together in gaming houses and go to the gym together and eat healthy.
I agree. It takes an immense amount of talent and dedication to compete at the highest level in the esports world. Unfortunately while streaming has meant the world to esports, it also works against it in some ways. Streamer girls and other "personalities" devalue the legitimacy of esports in the eyes of those who do not truly under stand it.
While I love esports, people do often try to equate pro esports to that of actual sports. There is just no fair comparison to the immense work that goes into professional athlete training and that of a pro gamer. Playing something like league of legends 13 hours a day is in no what remotely equatable to say the training an NFL athlete goes through.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:35:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think it's certainly a valid argument. I'm not entirely convinced that it really fits the criteria of a sport but it's definitely a competitive game at least. To be honest though it doesn't matter that much, what we label it as has little to no effect on it.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:54:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Trap shooting is an olympic sport so eSports are real sports by that extrension. If it requires physical dexterity it's a sport. Esports require dexterity in both arms when played.
nizochan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:16:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yup. I've played various games at a decently high level and the amount of time you have to invest to stay good is insane.
D0ct0rJ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:19:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There should be a documentary on this - showing how much better they are and how much time they devote.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:01:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Watch free2play (I'm on mobile or I would link it). Its dota specific but it shows 3 guys who pretty much threw away the possibility at a normal life for their reports careers
"the smash brothers" is an episode series documentary over competitive super smash brothers melee, and it will definitely show people being better and how much time they put into something they love
They also practice more than traditional athletes do, mainly because there are no physical restrictions. To be a top level LoL player, you have to devote at least 12 hours a day, 7 days a week to the game.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:15:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most eSports players are average looking. Some are ugly and some are really good looking. It's almost like they're people...
I have played thousands of hours of sc2 and am one of those guys that plays against professionals consistently on ladder. I can tell you that I am no where near their skill level and you need both natural talent and extreme dedication to play professionally.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:28:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
eSports are so hard on the body. All that sitting & repetitive motion.
andyweir ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 18:28:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Those games are infinitely easier than actual sports. Like my friend said:
If you took 5 people, put them in a gaming house, and said all they had to do was play League all day...if you put them in the LCS they'd probably have a good chance of taking games from people
But if you did the same thing and had them play the worst team in any professional sport, they wouldn't even come close to taking a game
Esports are all about commitment. Most people just don't have the time or the full desire to play those games competitively. There are different levels of competitiveness and most people just play for casual competitiveness. Plus, most know they can't fully compete with kids who have 0 responsibility and all the time in the world
That's why esports are a young man's game. When I was playing cod in high school, I could play for 8 hours straight on any given day. Can't do that in college and damn sure can't do that while I got bills to pay and shit to do
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:08:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sports in general are young peoples game, but esports is as well i will give you that. As you age you lose reaction time. Its pretty well documented.
But you are who the op is talking about. There is a level which exceeds effort in e sports. You wouldn't become a cod pro by playing more cod, not by being on a team with other good people, and not by dedicating an unemployed persons free time into it. Well maybe cod I don't know what that game is like at a top tier but definitely not mobas or RTS' or csgo.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:09:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:07:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It is just a video game, i don't know why people get so excited about it
butsuon ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:43:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ex-Pro CS player here. The practice sessions for professional teams are scheduled and managed for eSports teams the same way primary sports are.
You go to the gym to stay in shape, because overall health improves your reflexes. Your diet is usually controlled for the same reasons. 40 hours or more a week doing drills, running scrim matches with other pros and semi-pros.
The reason pros are so good is because that shit is -practiced-. It's muscle memory.
Jabonex ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 14:44:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've never got the grips of Professional players.. I just don't know. Do they love doing that ? Are they proud to just play only one games everyday and doing the same thing over and over again ? It's not that every games are boring (if i said that that would be my opinions) but that they're doing the same strategy that they change over the game based on the opponents reaction. Do they like it ? Starcraft 2 is that interesting and replayable ? Well, i have to say GG to them anyway, because training for a videogame ? That will be a nope for me.
H3xtra ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:36:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Said he always does it; doesn't do it.
Keladn ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 14:50:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
professional sports players have even less strategy associated with every player imo. the coach does most of their calls. in eSports, it's the players job, as a team to make all the shots and do something that the other team hasn't seen yet. if the other team has seen it before, you best believe they've practiced how to handle that exact situation.
Lots of esports teams have a coach who's just as relatively important as a coach for a real sports team.
An example is relatively recently at a high profile csgo game, the coach went to hug a player who was defusing the bomb at the last possible second, and bumped his arm before it finished, making them lose.
I wonder if we'll reach a point where eSports will have coaches overlooking the game and shouting strategies.
TuxOut ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:52:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's already a thing in csgo
OBAN141 ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 15:55:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Before you fucking inbreds downvote me, read my arguments.
I'm a huge huge fan of e sports. I love cs and always will, until valve fucks it up. E sports do not hold a candle to physical sports such as hockey or football. Try sniping a shot after getting your bell rung in centre ice and you're now missing a few teeth. Try hitting your rifle shots after being literally KOd by a linebacker. You can't.
Hockey and football require ridiculous mental preparation as well as an insane amount of physical fitness, strength, and endurance. I'd argue E sports are MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH easier to compete in, compared to pro physical sports.
There's still plenty of 'traditional' sports that don't have that kind of physical contact. You're kinda cherry-picking your argument here.
OBAN141 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:39:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's cool, I don't care about other "traditional sports," my argument is regarding hockey and football.
_Noise ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:33:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Tomatoes are a fruit."
"Yes, but they are not fruits like blueberries or strawberries are."
"Right but they are still a fruit."
"I'm only talking about blueberries and strawberries. Not fruits."
OBAN141 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:09:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
While your comment is an overview that e sports are not traditional sports, etc.. it is irrelevant to my point.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:11:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think he was comparing the two in levels of difficulty.
OBAN141 ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 16:20:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
almost like a physical sports team
No, it fucking isn't.
Exodor54 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:38:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Man, that's just stupid. First of, they're in different leauges. It's like comparing a cook to a scientist. Secondly, e-sports is a professional sport just like physical sports. Why aren't you hating on, for example, chess? Just because it's a physical activity does in no way mean it's superior. What, is the world champion in weight lifting superior to Stephen Hawking? Put and professional physical sports man vs a pro e-sport gamer in a game and he'll get destroyed, same if reversed. Put a pro e-sport gamer against a physical sportsman, and he'll get destroyed. Both are exceedingly difficult and require severe practice.
Toshiro46 ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 16:52:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
One is being very good at pointing and shooting, along with some basic strategy and teamwork.
Another is intense control over your body and intense strategy and teamwork.
Quite a bit of difference. Sure, QBs are smart, but even the linemen have to be pretty fucking intelligent.
Edit: don't understand the downvotes. I've been playing video games since I was 3 years old and I'm fairly talented at them. Moreover, I also play several sports, mostly soccer and tennis. It's very easy to understand the difference between them.
OBAN141 ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 17:52:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Man, that's just stupid. First of, they're in different leauges. It's like comparing a cook to a scientist.
E sports and physical contact sports are both team based; team A vs team B. Cooks and scientists don't have fuck all in common in that regard. You're looking at difficulty in a mental manner, which cooking and 'being a scientist' both are. The difference between e sports and contact physical sports is largely physical fitness etc. E sports are not physical whatsoever in comparison to physical contact sports.
Why aren't you hating on, for example, chess?
No don't put words in my mouth. I respect chess.
Just because it's a physical activity does in no way mean it's superior.
Your quote, not mine.
What, is the world champion in weight lifting superior to Stephen Hawking?
No, but someone who needs to be physically fit to at an extreme level and intelligent enough to play at a high level has a more difficult task. E sports do not require you to be fit.
Put and professional physical sports man vs a pro e-sport gamer in a game and he'll get destroyed, same if reversed.
The sky is blue.
Both are exceedingly difficult and require severe practice.
Absolutely. BUT, there is a reason why sports players > e sports players in terms of salary. I hope that always will be true.
Play poker/gamble at a professional level. The amount of bankroll monitoring, control, initial investment, and preparation of skill in the particular game you are trying to make money off of are simply ridiculous. Not to mention the forethought required to take into account unseen aspects of long term gambling, like physical health and relationship issues that come with being a professional gambler that isn't Phil Ivey or someone of that caliber. I have been playing different kinds of poker at a legitimate part time level now for a decade, and that shit is more strenuous than being an active duty sailor in the U.S. Navy. People think because they have watched WSOP or something like that enough times that they know what to expect, but just like watching MMA, the TV shows only show the parts of it that don't make you regret all of your life decisions up to that point.
Yep. Played poker for 12+ years and I used to make a small amount playing SNGs online - decent enough for a bit of extra income when I was in uni. I still consider myself a fairly decent player but my recent attempts at making any money through cash games have ended through bad bankroll management or tilting.
As an aside, I used to live with a guy who, having never played poker before, decided he was going to make ยฃ100 a week playing it online right off the bat and that was going to be his new job. Dude, I've been playing for five years, and I know I couldn't make anywhere near enough money to live on, what makes you think you can?
bjsy92 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:42:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What is tilting? I am so scared of losing money that I took $2 of my sports betting $45 and played blackjack online the other day. Quit when I got up $2. Lolol
Being on tilt basically means that you're not in the right mental state to play, often triggered by a bad beat, which causes you to make bad decisions and lose even more.
Getting in the right frame of mind and concentrating on how you play and not the results of individual hands is one of the biggest challenges. The correct play is the correct play regardless of whether or not you win the pot, but it's easy to lose sight of that in the heat of battle.
bjsy92 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:57:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Such an insightful explanation, I really appreciate it!
I'm a moderately successful medium stakes pro. Bankroll management is no joke. I've gone 2+ months without making any money before. Live conservatively(not politically, cringe); your savings is your operating capital. You also have to have the mental strength to not go insane during these periods where you're unsuccessful for a long time for no damn reason. Short term results mean so little that with just a touch of intellectual dishonesty, you can wildly misjudge your skill level and earning potential. Especially since most people who try this are burnouts looking for easy money.
Plus all the work that goes into, you know, actually being good at the game.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:39:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I always laugh when someone tells me they are trying to become a professional poker player and their job is just temporary.
jdoe74 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:37:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I play poker pretty serious hobby for many years. I have played in the WSOP, I play what most people would consider pretty large games / tournaments. My win rate per hour is in the neighborhood $2-3/hr.
I know how much time and effort I have put in to be this mediocre. I can't tell you how many asshats I have played with that claim to be pros.
Yeah, you called a preflop 3bet all-in with KJoff 300 big blinds deep.
And beat KK runer-runner flush, and now your bragging Standard pro call.
mic_giu ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:17:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Who 3bet shoves 300 bb deep?
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 21:45:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
all casino games except ones against other players (poker) are negative expected value, or house-favored (with stuff like poker, they just skim off the top)
there are no strategies that will let you consistently win in any of them. if there were, that game would be potentially unprofitable for the casino. even counting cards in blackjack doesn't push you into +EV in any casinos anymore.
you are losing money on average when you play roulette. it's just like the lottery. if you win, you lucked out, period. you may have been playing a strategy where you would've been losing, say, 50 dollars a week on avg rather than 100, but there is no strategy to avg a win.
i guess your break-even strategy is technically EV=0, but there's no potential for winning anything there...
not to my knowledge, though it might be just bias based on myself and my friends, who have maybe some traits similar to our parents, but are generally very unlike them as people
capnpitz ยท 140 points ยท Posted at 13:06:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
All those basic bitches on facebook might actually have to face the fact that some criticism is justified understand that the DKE can be summed up as "you don't know my story"
goat18 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:29:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm so hipster that I think people who read about this might fake being humble so that other people who also know about the effect praise them for it, and redditors can circlejerk about it.
capnpitz ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 19:31:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't mean to be dismissive of anybody, and I'm sorry to come across that way. My intention was to make a cheeky joke at no one in particular's expense.
Give out diet and exercise advice. It can be quite dangerous, especially all of the post pregnancy workouts that pop up on my Facebook feed. Seek professional advice before starting a drastic diet or exercise regime.
Be a mechanic. As a mechanic I see so many fucked up botched jobs it's not even funny (or safe)
Edit - Changing brake pads, mufflers, and small things isn't all that hard. (Unless bolts start breaking on you when it comes apart). But diagnosing why an engine misfires at only, say, 2500 rpms and only 2500, is difficult. I actually do marine engines, which are high performance engines. And my engines run at full throttle most of the time. When a customer comes to you and says my engine used to turn 5000 rpms at full throttle, but only turns 4500 now, finding out where those missing 500 rpms went to can be an all day affair, and sometimes more. One has to have some fairly intricate experience and knowledge to figure out things like that without throwing parts at it.
The difference between an amateur mechanic and an idiot is know what is out of your scope of expertise and experience.
I do 90% of the work in my own vehcicles. Grew up working on cars, and related mechanic training from the military.
But sometimes there are problems that I know I can't handle, can't figure out, don't have the tools, or just don't want to handle.
For example, the press in bearings on my rear hubs.
Could I have done it? Yeah, probably eventually. I don't have the right tools, and it would have taken me a whole weekend. I could rent a lift for the day, but there's a good chance I'd mess something up. So, I dropped the car of at my mechanic before breakfast, and it was done at lunch.
_FranklY ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:36:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm in a similar situation, although I have no formal training.
The only work we don't do, is work that we physically can't, like changing the fuel pump on a Land Rover we had (had to jack it up, tear the back end apart and get an engine lift in there)
In my area everyone seems to have their own personal "mechanic" which is really just a guy (usually a relative of their's) with a harbor freight tool set.
The amount of carnage these guys can do is insane.
It's not unreachable, but so many people mess up so badly and don't even own the proper tools and try to make due with what they have. No one should get under a vehicle with only a jack holding it up.
But it's only gonna take me a second. I gotta take a couple bolts off my Cadillac converter. It's rattling bad. But I got my adjustable pliers. Should be a quick job.
Lol just hearing Cadillac converter makes me unreasonably angry. I always have to correct them by saying "it's catalytic converter. It undergoes catalysis. Your car doesn't become a Cadillac".
I now have "The Impossible Dream" stuck in my head and am picturing Don Quixote on his desperate quest to become a mechanic
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:40:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not unreachable, but trust me, some people just don't have what it takes. I worked in service engineering for a couple of years and saw this first hand almost every day.
ptb3 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:13:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not in reachable, but being a good one takes years and years of experience
Yes! I hate "parts changing" mechanics. Instead of diagnosing the actual problem, they say "it's probably this. Start with this". And when it doesn't work, they just throw more parts at it.
I had a friend take their car to the shop. The shop said that all 3 catalytic converters were bad. They took out the oxygen sensors that are before/ on the cats (the two in the front) and it ran better so they claimed all three were bad. I asked if the took the oxygen sensors that were after the first two cats out and they said they hadn't. So, how they fuck do they know they're all clogged?? They didn't. They just assumed they were. It turns out only the rear cat was clogged up. But because of their diagnosis, my friend would have paid an extra $1000 just for those two exhaust manifolds that weren't even bad.
Tl;dr ask a mechanic friend before you replace parts or you'll most likely end up spending a lot more money than you need to.
I used to work for a parts changer. He tried getting me to become a parts changer too. He wasn't too happy when I quit on the spot in front of a customer he just raped.
I can definitely see that. On the other hand, there aren't too many auto shops around me and the ones that are have been said to be scummy. That kind of leads to randos like me doing botched jobs.
Came here to say this. DIYers can do repairs with some success, but I would say most are very bad at diagnosing problems. As a professional, you can't just start guessing and replacing things. You need to have an understanding of engine performance, suspension, alignment geometry, air conditioning, brakes, electronics and wiring, etc. Plus, you'll most likely have at least 10k dollars of your own money in tools. Oh, and people will constantly question your integrity (you touched it last, so you broke it). That being said, I love my job.
Your reply was the point I wish I made. Changing brake pads, mufflers, and small things isn't all that hard. (Unless bolts start breaking on you when it comes apart). But diagnosing why an engine misfires at only, say, 2500 rpms and only 2500, is difficult. I actually do marine engines, which are high performance engines. And my engines run at full throttle most of the time. When a customer comes to you and says my engine used to turn 5000 rpms at full throttle, but only turns 4500 now, finding out where those missing 500 rpms went to can be an all day affair, and sometimes more. One has to have some fairly intricate experience and knowledge to figure out things like that without throwing parts at it.
90bronco ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:35:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Changing your brake pads are easy. Changing brakes all day, meeting the SRT times, and doing it day after day is not
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:28:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
you can't just start guessing and replacing things.
I like to do my own car repairs whenever I can, but frequenting /r/Justrolledintotheshop reminds me that I'm a complete amateur and would get laughed out the door if I tried to get hired at a local garage.
I agree, I've worked as a mechanic in quite a few fields, small engine/equipment, marine (mostly outboard and I/O), and currently work on Cadillacs. It's not just plugging in the scan tool like people seem to think it is. Diagnostics can be the toughest part of the job and unfortunately a lot of people don't know how use problem solving skills applied to technical information or just straight up don't know how it works. Don't throw parts at it, fix it right the first time.
I work on cars a lot as a sort of freelance side thing to make extra money, every couple of days I have a new job I'm doing and have been at this for quite a while now. I can change parts no problem and am somewhat competent when it comes to diagnosing problems. I went to college to study automotive technology but had to drop out before I finished.
With that being said I still am hesitant to call myself a mechanic because I know enough to know that I don't really know that much. I wouldn't even know where to start with diagnosing where those 500 rpm went.
60% of the things that shops do are doable by anyone who takes the time. Its that other 40% that you should never EVER touch.
Funny thing is this applies to electrical cars too, despite a TON less moving parts, the voltages involved are insanely dangerous.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:26:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
On the other hand, the level of incompetence in so called professional mechanics these days is alarmingly high. The c level techs changing your oil are probably no better trained than the cashier at your grocery store. The A level techs these days seem to be non mechanically inclined people who went to wyotech and are unable to consider things they have not encountered or learned about.
As an example, an A level tech replaced the bent aluminum pushrods in my Subaru engine with steel ones. To the non mechanical, this might seem like a good idea. A good tech however, would have realized that the rods were aluminum to expand at the same rate as the aluminum engine block, to avoid changing valve clearance as the engine warms up. Is it too much to ask that an A level tech can consider things like this?
Some people are just Engine Whisperers. My dad had a masters degree in mechanical engineering and worked on engines both professionally and privately all his life. He had a gift for diagnosing a mechanical problem. I could call him on the phone and he would ask seemingly unrelated questions and after a few minutes he'd be 90% sure what the problem was. I grew up around this and we worked on cars together for the first 20 years of my life. I do most of the work on an engine once I have a diagnosis but I am convinced that there is such a thing as an Engine Whisperer.
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 16:18:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write. Everyone knows how to write, so everyone thinks they could probably do it for pay. Like everyone who is actually getting paid to write didn't spend years doing it on their own time to build their skills, then years working for shit pay to get experience, and then finally getting a decent check for it, if they're lucky.
Source: am currently between the first and second stages.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:11:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Agreed. Came in here looking for this response.
Jiffreg ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:46:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Here's a quote from Yahtzee Croshaw that I think sums up the situation:
"You know, what pisses me off is that all the things I'm good at are things that everyone assumes they could do if they tried. Playing the bassoon or fluffing a walrus people respect, 'cause there's a specialist skill goes into those, but writing? "Pah! I learnt that in school! Fucking aced it! They made me start doing it all in joined-up letters just to give everyone else a chance!"
I have actually had several novels published by small houses (like 5) and the amount of idiocy that people have towards writing is astronomical.
If you can write short stories well enough for publication (no, you can't, sit down), that doesn't automatically mean you can write a novel. It's almost an entirely different skill set.
Getting the idea for a novel is not the hard part. Slogging through eighty-thousand words, going back and editing them over and over and over until you hate everyone, putting the manuscript down for six months while you drink and cry and wonder if your day job is really that bad, and then editing again and again, until words cease to make sense and you can't tell whether the entire thing is in english or spanish, and now--no, you've only started. Now comes the part where you query, and send to god knows how many publishers, and maybe after a year of this shit you get a revise and resubmit which you're grateful as shit for, and maybe you finally get offered a contract and then there's another several months of edits with an editing team including content, copy, and line--and oh, by the way, I have gotten manuscripts back that said, "I don't like this backstory. Make a new backstory" or "Everybody cannot die in the end, rewrite the ending"--and then after all of that shit, the fucker finally gets published, so you can get your tiny pittance of royalty checks (fuck advances, do those even exist anymore) and swear to god you will never write anything again.
Until, like childbirth, you forget your pain, and start it up again, and now you have to finish what you start.
My new favorite hobby is to go up to people loudly blathering about their "writing process" in coffee shops and say, "oh, you're published? that's great! Where?" and when they "well i haven't finished it yet/written it yet/anything yet" i just walk away without saying anything because FUCK YOU nobody needs more "ideas" or lectures about process in the writing world.
Actually, at this stage, I don't tell people I meet anymore that I have written or published anything. It only solicits way too much advice I didn't ask for from people wholly unqualified to give it.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:25:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Many people could write a novel if they wanted too. Most probably underestimate the amount of work it takes to write one.
It really bugs me when people brag about the trilogy they're writing, and only when probed reveal that they're only two chapters into the first book, or haven't started writing but have a groundbreaking idea. I don't think they appreciate how much real estate is in 4,000 pages.
Especially since the hardest part of any fucking book to write is the middle, and the hardest book to write in a trilogy is the second. It's pretty common to know how it starts, and how it ends, and not known how to pace the middle sixty thousand paces.
But I'm sure your teenage heroine, in a post-apocalyptic setting, where she's totally normal but is still somehow humanity's last hope, will resonate well with readers. It's an untapped market!
Yes, they can write "a novel", as in stringing together 80 thousand words. Writing that 80 thousand words without messing up POV, making sure there is a good character arc, making sure all the emotional loose ends are tied up, making sure its not too much like somebody else's manuscript, making sure to map out every scene so that there are no inconsistencies in terms of logic, blocking, etc., making sure that parts that were revised don't accidentally miss continuity, etc..... Generally, you need to write 3 to 4 novels to even start to get to a place where you can write one good novel.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 22:36:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Professional survivalist. 95% of you that think you're gonna make it in an apocalypse, won't. Myself included.
juicius ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 02:22:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is the one I find most hilarious. I like watching survivalist shows, even the scripted ones. Naked and Afraid was my guilty pleasure for a while and the number of gung ho survivalist alpha male hunter types who thought they could hack it because they hunted all their lives. Yeah, you drove to a hunting preserve, checked into a cabin with plumbing, lugged your $2000 rifle with $1000 scope to a tree stand half a mile away and shot a deer that's been fed all year. You are a god of hunting.
thezep ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 12:24:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I remember one episode where the guy actually got pissed that the woman caught a fish instead of him and he went all "where I'm from its the mans job to hunt/fish blah blah blah southern heritage retard babble.." it was too unbelievable I thought it had to be scripted.
Absolutely. I umpire Australian football and after a finals match which my team and I did a fantastic job of umpiring, a spectator from the losing side decided to meet us at the change rooms to let us know how terrible we are at our job. I've been called any name under the sun since I started umpiring. Still love it though.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:23:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I'm reminded of when the NFL had a few high school refs substituting (I think this was a few years ago) and people flipped at this one really bad call.
My biggest pet peeve. When I tell people that I work in interior design I hate it when they respond "I want to go to school for that! Just for fun! I love Feng shui!" Yeah, you do that. It'll be a blast, trust me.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:03:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So how does interior design actually work? It honestly has always seemed like a "put things in places" kinda deal. Now I'm genuinely interested.
Interior design is as much "put things in places" as architecture is. A better name for the profession would probably be "interior architecture." The emphasis should be on creating a functional, safe and effective use of a space, which does include deciding where furnishings are placed. And also where the walls are placed. And also building code, health code, barrier free considerations, acoustics, lighting, plumbing, occupancy loads and sustainability. A lot of these considerations come more into play when you are working in commercial spaces, as opposed to residential. I think a lot of people look at a designer or interior decorating picking paint colours and furniture for someone's house and assume that's all that they do.
Unfortunately, interior designer isn't a protected profession, like lawyers or dieticians, so anyone can claim to be one. Interior designers can however be licensed by or registered with a professional association, and those are the ones that are educated, experienced and tested.
I wish I could send you a set of commercial interior plans. It's one page of furniture plans, and many, many more pages showing occupancy load and emergency exiting analysis, wheelchair clearances, mounting heights for things like ADA bathroom grab bars, section details of custom millwork pieces, installation details for things like window covering pockets and suspended ceiling pieces, energy code compliance for lighting, details of material transitions, etc. People think interior designers are just creatives, but you need a large amount of nerd in you as well.
To give you an idea of the scope of the work I did in school, our projects usually consisted of a program and a building shell. The program was usually something very rudimentary like "medical office for four general practitioners and an allergist, including private offices, a nurse's station, and admin/billing." The plans we were given to work with very commonly nothing but exterior walls, columns, and maybe an elevator lobby. Everything else was our job to figure out. And there was a lot to figure out.
For my senior project, for example, I designed a brewery with a tap room and a bottle shop. So on top of researching things like space requirements in the tap room and storage requirements behind the bar, I had to learn how beer is made. And not only how it's made, but things like, if the tap room has an occupancy of 100, and you want to be able to sell X number of kegs a month to other restaurants in town, and you want to do two brews per week, what size system is needed? What kind of chemicals do you need to clean it, and what kind of materials will stand up to those chemicals? How much clearance space is required around and between tanks to clean and move around while maintaining efficiency? In the real world, you have a client with a business model to work with, and for something like a brewery, maybe a consultant. But in college, part of the trial by fire was researching enough about what you were designing to be able to ask the right questions to come up with a plan that really worked, and wasn't just nice to look at.
I'm amazed when I go to someone's cubicle to work, and they always have an extra hot ethernet line and bank of plugs, and enough space for us to work together. Someone thought of this situation happening and paid out to be ready.
Not to mention the obvious things, like gated fire escapes (to prevent stampeding), occupancy codes, well-marked exits, etc.
It's funny, one of the things that I end up spending way more time on than you would think is coordinating the furniture plan with with the electrical plan. Nothing worse than having a perfectly nice outlet inaccessible because it's hidden behind your desk's support panel. I have meetings with clients that are solely about surveying their office equipment to make sure every piece of technology has the right power in the right place. When furniture is delivered, we have audio/visual subcontractor come back just to do cord management so that everything is as neat and clean as possible.
Some of my roommates were interior design majors and that ish was hard. It was more similar to architecture than prop styling. They had to do a ton of drafting, math, make models to scale, etc. It took a lot of patience and even when they were just writing, they had to use a ruler for every line; it was super weird.
nandhuco ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:31:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I hate the rules, didn't got used to them until today.
You can ask me anything you want, but I should warn you that I'm just an interior design tech who graduated less than a year ago. I do work for a residential interior designer (and her business partner, who is an architect), but I have a lot of learning to do.
I'll ask you this just because it's been in my mind: what would an interior designer charge for a small 750 foot 1 bedroom? I'm moving into a new place and I've always considered getting an interior designer to take a look at my place and design it for me. I'm not a bad decorator but I want something that makes people say "damn this is nice"
I don't really deal with invoicing, and the designer I work for is probably on the expensive side, she really only does high-end custom residential. I believe she charges over $150/hr for her time, less for us techs time. But you can definitely find one for much cheaper, especially if it's a small scope of work. Like are you renovating or just decorating? If it's decorating, you won't need construction docs or anything.
Congrats and thanks! The questions that came to mind:
How does job placement work, do most go on to find their own clientele or do they find jobs at existing companies?
How much do your job is actual creativity vs organisation, budgeting, etc?
I'm a graphic and web designer/developer and often get asked to do things I know are poor design choices. If I can't convince the client, I have to give the client what they want in the end, even if I think it's horrible. Does that happen with interior designers as well?
I can't imagine most new grads have much luck finding clients of their own. Most people aren't going to trust the construction of a building to someone with zero real world experience. I know a lot of my classmates wanted to go into business for themselves, but most that I know of are working for other people. In my opinion, working for yourself is something that needs to come later in life.
My job is zero creativity lol. For the designer I work for, from what I can tell, most of the creativity happens at the beginning. The rest is nitty gritty construction details, sourcing, budgeting, and trying to placate clients.
Poor or arguably inferior design choices happen all the time. Most of the time it comes down to cost. A particular feature may be an excellent representation of the design vision, but cost 5x more than something ugly but still functional. Usually people will pick something ugly/boring if it's dirt cheap. A lot of people don't build to last, either. They want a renovation right now, but they're already planning to tear it up in 5 years.
I work in commercial design, but designed (from the ground up, not just the interiors) a house when I was in school. One of my faculty advisors was a professor in construction management with a background in heavy civil. We affectionately referred to each other as the "pillow fluffer" and the "dirt mover."
I swear they put the most grief inducing classes at the beginning to weed out the casuals. I tell people who think they're interested in what I do that architecture or design school isn't something you do because you want to - you do it because you "have" to. It's way too hard and life consuming (and the money isn't good enough) if it's not your number one passion.
I would love to work in interior design, I just don't think I would be any good at it. I occasionally watch some HGTV shows and some of the designs they put togetherโand the way they make them cohesive despite using a ridiculous number of patterns and colorsโastounds me. I could have put all that same shit into a room and it would look like a clown puked on it. But Joanna Gaines does it and it's beautiful. (Although I'm not a huge fan of the recent gray-wall trend, honestly.)
I guess it's something I'd been interested in since I was a teenager. I went to university for something else, but then I dropped out and got a technical diploma in interior design instead. This is an option in Canada, but I hear interior design techs aren't really a thing in America. Basically, I have a condensed education that placed a strong focus on use of computer applications for interior design purposes. My program provided me with an excellent base knowledge that I can expand upon with experience. I graduated last May and currently work for a residential interior designer. Mostly I do her computer drafting, but also finish selection, sourcing, technical specs and presentation boards. Not the most creative job at the moment, but an excellent learning experience.
I have a BA in interior design with a concentration in interior architecture - my program was a good combination between theory and technology. Every semester we took a lab and a studio, with studio focusing on concept and theory and lab focusing on programs and presentation. Additionally, we took multiple courses in graphic design, photography, architectural history and theory, and professional practices (which included construction practices, materials, and business practices).
I started in a two year program at a community college, and while it was mainly residential focused (they had a NKBA specific certificate program), they did teach CAD and a few other programs. But it's cool that you have a specific program for tech, I don't know of any of those in my area.
EDIT: Doing what you do is definitely a thing in America, but those people generally have a bachelors degree in design, and either focus their interest in technology or fall into it. Honestly, if I could make a good enough living modeling on Revit and Sketchup all day, I would be in heaven. Maybe I can, but I like where I am.
My program covered history, design fundamentals, building code, construction drawings (primarily for commercial/hospitality/healthcare), building systems, communications, professional practice, and then Autocad, Revit, Sketchup, Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign. From what I understand my program was MUCH less theory based with less focus on the artistic side of design. They fit in as much as they can into two years, but they can't cover it all. If there was a bachelor program available in my city, I would have taken it, but oh well! Most designers and architects here employ techs because that's what's primarily available.
Edit: We did do design studio as well. Over the course of the program we worked on a hotel, school, hospital, retail store, and restaurant.
Well... not so much right now due to the economy. But there's only one school in my province with a CIDA approved program, and two schools that spit out techs twice as fast, so most potential employees are techs.
Tur_keys ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:40:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Where did you study? I have really toyed with this idea but have been put off by time constraints for serious 4-year degree. I have a background in art, design, and business and currently work as the visual merchandiser and buyer for an independent giftshop... but would love to expand on my experience technically. What school / where / how long was your program or any other info would be super appreciated!
This is only really applicable if you live in Canada, but I went to a technical school in Alberta for interior design technology. I know other tech schools in other provinces offer similar programs. It's a two-year program, if you take it full-time. At my school if you were full-time you couldn't pick your schedule and were in school generally from 8-3 or 4, everyday. Part-time students could, to some degree, pick what classes they took when.
I took it full-time and I will say that it is a very intensive program. You take 5-6 classes a semester, some of those classes would be split into 2 or 3 portions, each with their own assignments. So you really end up taking 8+ classes per semester. You could expect to spend minimum 15 hours a week on homework outside of school, much more if you were working on a design project. Late nights at the project studio were a common thing.
Tuition was lower than when I went to a large university, but I did need to buy a laptop with specific minimum requirements beforehand, and I spent quite a bit on supplies (so much money on paper...) throughout the program.
I will say that pretty much everything I've been asked to do at my current job, I learned in school. So I would say that my education was very relevant.
Tur_keys ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:00:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you! I really appreciate your answer and thought put into your reply. I do live in Ontario so I know there are programs through a few colleges in this province. I had never heard it referred to as Interior Design Technology and wasn't sure if it might be a newer program just recently offered. I am just so hesitant about the timing aspect. I live in more of a rural area so committing to two years of school also means a move and big financial commitment. Those are really my biggest barriers.
I can completely relate to the heavy work load and long hours spent on projects. People truly don't appreciate any schooling for creative works, its very project focused and... emotionally draining! I guess my next question moving forward would be to ask if there are any more specifically tech-based programs you have come across and thought - woah, that would be such a great experience!?
I'm worried that a general interior design program will cross over a lot of that I have already been exposed through working experience and other schooling, not saying I know everything, just that I already have a lot of the basic fundamentals of the aesthetic and space planning part. I'm seeking mostly tech-focused, and building aspects knowledge and wouldn't be opposed to independent courses but, perhaps in your professional opinion? - it might be wiser for me to continue with my experience through work?
I'm sorry to be rambling and asking you all these questions, but you're kind of the first person who might be able to give me some unbiased advice about my future so... i'd appreciate any help or words of advice you may have! Thank you :D
I have a Bachelor of Science in Interior Design from a CIDA accredited university in the US. Here, a 4 year program with 2 years of work experience gains you the ability to register for the 3 NCIDQ exams (there are some alternative routes, but that is the most common.) Some of the larger architecture firms still use CAD drafters (probably similar to your position.) Through our professional associations, we have been working to make Interior Design a "protected profession" by creating title laws, but as of now, it varies state to state. I thought your description of our work was very articulate and all too true!
nandhuco ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:33:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I worked for an interior design firm for a while and met a lot of people (in other companies, applicants, etc.) that called themselves interior designers but had no knowledge of how to measure for window treatments. Interior design isn't just buying a couple of vases/plates/what-have-you and placing them around someone's house.
raider02 ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 18:36:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Magic. What bugs me is the constant, "Can you show me how to do that?" Yeah, I guess if you've got a spare 500 hours you may be able to pull it off.
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 01:14:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Xannin ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:57:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have been learning card tricks, and holy crap just moving the cards correctly is difficult, let alone doing it quickly with good slight of hand is insanely difficult. It's taken me many moons just to get less shitty.
[deleted] ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 14:56:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Stand up Comedy.
RedBlimp ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:42:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am usually pretty good with my deadpan comedy and can easily make people laugh but I know I would crash and burn if I tried to get on stage and do it
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:16:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
it takes practice and a friendly, loving, supportive crowd the first time you go up. If you really had the desire, you could get over the stage fright...I know comics who have profound stammers, but do not on stage when they are doing their act. Amazing, really. I love deadpan humor. You should write some stuff out and go to an open mike. Rehearse, though. Go up prepared. :)
RedBlimp ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:23:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm better with witty deadpan remarks than stories. This is why I'd fail
Tutoring: It requires you, as an adult, to understand exactly what students are learning about a particular subject at the time. It also requires you to study up to keep your memory and knowledge accurate enough. Basically, you have to learn whatever high schoolers are learning and remember it permanently, unlike in high school where you can forget crap after a test.
akaioi ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 01:12:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A caution ... this thread is so full of "don't even try this at home, losers" kind of comments, and I really don't want that kind of action on tutoring. It's an important job, I'd hate to see people get discouraged.
I do volunteer tutoring. Mostly grade-school kids, but have tutored for high school and college kids as well. I don't have a teaching certificate. But for subjects that I know, I can help some kids. Sure sure, I'm not the pro-level rockstar tutor, but ... so? We're talking about algebra here, guys. So go out there and help some kids!
I'm tutoring college math right now. It's not easy to remember stuff as well as the students when they just had the class and still be expected to teach them.
Oasiis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:06:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a 3rd year University engineering student, and I know a few people in high school that ask me to help them on their math homework. I always make sure to ask them the subject they are working on before I go to help them, not for curiosity sake, but because I need to brush up on that shit before I can help the adequately. They always say I'm a good tutor, but that's only because I'm allowed to brush up on it before I go over. I know being an actual tutor would probably be pretty tough.
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 16:36:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Intermediate School District. Trade skills like Welding, Automotive, PC Tech are taught as well as CAD, Machining, a Health Occupations class and a Early Childhood class.
thezep ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:30:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just the hours that welders work sometimes is enough to put me off. Sometimes I need to stick a couple pieces of square tube together with my harbor freight welder but that doesn't make me a professional welder...just the thought of trying to run these perfect beads for 12 hours a day...not thanks
You've got some really good professional ones and you've got people who can't sing for shit but think they're all that since they got paid once because the community theatre was desperate!!!
I know this woman (more of an acquaintance) who calls herself a singer, model and actress, and she tries so hard to act sultry and sexy when she sings, but her voice is all over the place!!
She sang La Vie En Rose once at this club, I honestly felt like crawling up my own backside!!! CRINGE
My Sis-in-law thinks she's all hot shit. Semi-decent voice, but nowhere near good enough for the praise she gives herself. So when i hear her singing, i love pointing out spots where her pitch is all wrong. Now, I can't sing for shit, but i am definitely not tone deaf
Hey just because you can't sing doesn't mean you don't have musical talent! :P
I can't sing on pitch for beans because I have no ability to control my voice at all (no idea how to work those vocal chords I guess), but I play a stringed instrument and would wager my pitch/hearing is a lot sharper than most ;)
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 17:35:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've been singing my entire life. And I can't tell you how many times I hear "why don't you make more music?" Or "why don't you sing out in public more?"
Well. I have crippling anxiety a lot of the time. I would prefer to go sing karaoke with my friends and have fun. And becoming a professional singer is a lot harder than it's worth for me. I'd rather sing and have fun in my car and record music at my leisure.
It's so difficult to sing professionally. No thanks.
RulerOf ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:00:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Try a Barbershop quartet.
It's a lot easier to get over your anxiety with three other people supporting your part ;)
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:08:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm too selfish to share the spotlight lol. And I hate being in public singing.
I feel like singing is one of those skills where an normal person has no idea of the difference between a highly talented professional and a gifted amateur unless they compared them directly.
I was reminded of this when I was recently watching the making of the original production of Miss Saigon. If you're not familiar with the history of that show; in order to find the lead actress for the role of Kim they had auditions around the world and they purposely tried to find an unknown.
The first auditions all sounded OK to layman-me but then they got to Lea Salonga (who got the lead role) and Monique Wilson (who got the understudy for the lead role) and the difference is like night and day between them and the earlier singers.
Funny, I was just watching a video of the Miss Saigon rehearsals with Lea Salonga yesterday! That girl is in a completely different league, the clarity in her voice is unmatched.
Speaking as a decent enough amateur, I'm right with you on "my god the pros are good at this". I get quite a bit of praise from people if I get cajoled into singing outside of a choral setting and I can certainly perform some types of music quite well. And then there's the director of the choir I'm in, or the people who performed solos for the performance of the Messiah my brother and I saw over Christmas. They're nothing special in professional music, but they're light-years ahead of people like me. It's true with so many things. You don't know how far you have to go until you've started on the journey. That's why I'm taking vocal lessons. And always finding a harder piano piece to learn.
My god, my friend thinks just because she's pretty and asian she can be a Kpop star. I asked her what are her back up plans and she told me "Idol in Japan!" "And what's your plan C?" "Actor! Cause I'm so kawaii! Nya!" "And your plan D?" "Singer duhh!" Bitch can't even sing.
Lol, I've been told I have a good voice but just because you heard me sing on key/pitch once doesn't mean I have control over my voice. I tried to bail on a karaoke song once because I couldn't find the right key and was mortified... The dj refused to let me off the hook :(
Karaoke should be outlawed, you know how many good karaoke singers I've ever heard, maybe 5 total. You know how many Karaoke singers were worse than rubbish... 99.999% of them.
Yeah, I'm learning the hard way. Granted, I never really considered myself to be very good to begin with, but I want to get better and have been trying to lately.
I read somewhere awhile back that everyone has the capability to sing. Probably from this book from s local author called so you want to sing. For some it comes naturally, others not. Plus factor in the sound of people's voice. Someone could have a good sounding voice, but horrible at keeping in key. Knowing your boundaries as a singer is important. Not everyone can sing like Adele. But everyone can sing, but still doesn't mean you can be pro.
I can't sing well, but learning and training to sing well is something I have wanted so badly my entire life.
I play(ed) a couple of instruments and have a decent grasp of music theory, but was goofed at by my family growing up so it became kind of a vulnerable thing for me.
I'm in my 30s now and don't have room in the budget for voice lessons. But one day I will figure out a way to make it happen. I don't want fame, wealth, or praise. I want to create sounds with the power to move people and speak to them. I want to orchestrate music that articulates some of the thoughts and experiences I have.
Sigh.
kwbd ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:55:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There are famous singers who can't really sing. Bob Dylan, Kurt Cobain, Fat Mike and many more.
I know it sounds terrible, but honestly, you need to see this woman in real life to understand. I felt so embarrassed for her that night (and I wasn't the only one), I was hoping someone would just come out and tell her that she's not cut out for this (she's thinking of making a living out of it), or at least come back after lessons.
zach2992 ยท 151 points ยท Posted at 14:46:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Back in middle school everyone thought they could easily be a professional rapper.
There's no way all those white kids could all be rappers.
I saw a mug or tshirt or something once that said "every time you feel bad about yourself, remember someone from your home town is still trying to be a rapper."
An old friend of mine is a lot slower, mentally, than most. He dreamed of being a professional rapper. He'd go to high school and if he thought of a good rap he would pull out his folder of raps and write it down, no matter what was happening (lunch, lecture, etc.). I was hanging with him one day when he pulls out the folder and I see written in big, bold letters on the front, "RAPES." I inquiry about his rape folder and he tells me that it's meant to be raps and now he understands why everyone gives him weird looks when he pulls it out.
There was one kid in middle school, white as could be, got made fun of for other things. He wanted to be a rapper so bad. Then he passed around demos that allegedly had a song on there about him killing a female student. I didn't see him for a year or two.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:32:48 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Tyler the creator hadnt paved the way for that section of the genre yet lol
Pupazz ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 15:54:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Haha yeah, I remember these guys. These middle class exclusively white English kids doing their best to imitate whatever was hot in the US charts at the time were always damn strange to me. Most of them weren't serious of course, but every now and again you will hear the occasional delusional stray holdout in their 30s practising through an open window, only now they fancy themselves as an MC.
I know more Han a few had some indie fame there for a while, in the early 00's, but most of them moved on from rapping to other fields in the music industry.
Visit downtown Austin during SXSW. It's not just middle school kids who think they can be a professional rapper. Literally thousands of people who are rappers or part of a rapper's entourage (producer, marketing, "label guy") handing out shitty looking pamphlets with their SoundCloud URL. Dirty 6th is trashed with these pamphlets like it was a ticket tape parade at the end of the night. The vast majority don't even have SXSW gigs booked, they're just out trying to get noticed I guess.
I don't know, most "rappers" (they don't rap, they say stupid stuff pretending to be half drunk while an electronic beat plays in the background) have no talent these days anyway.
tooomine ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 16:18:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can do it, though. I'm really good. best I've ver met, actually, and I've been in a lot of circles rapping.
pinstrap ยท 130 points ยท Posted at 15:13:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Play guitar. Just cause you can play CGAF with decent rhythm and write ok lyrics doesn't mean your very good or that you should go on tour. Guitar is really easy to be okay at, that's why it's still one of the most popular instruments, but hard to be great at.
Edit: by being 'great' I don't necessarily mean being a virtuoso of the fretboard (but that too). My comment was mostly directed toward songwriting. It takes a great musical ear to write good songs on the guitar. But, it's very easy to write decent to subpar songs. It doesn't take a lot of time to learn that Em and G sound good together nor does it take a lot of time to tune to drop D and make a heavy metal song. Anyone can learn a few chords and perform them at a coffee shop. This doesn't always mean it's good. In all honesty, coffee shop performers often bore me to death.
That's my thing, I'm a pretty decent bass guitar player, but there is no way I could do it professionally.
I'm actually pretty decent at a lot of things, but I'm not exceptional at anything
Playing guitar well is a skill that degrades with time if you don't dedicate time to either. Maintaining is easier than learning initially, but your chops will go to utter crap if all you do is noodle from time to time.
Every time you are leveling up in one skill, you are leveling down in another.
SG_Dave ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:30:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Word.
I used to be in a band with a classically trained guitarist. I at the time was new to guitar and stuck to pounding out the rhythm to help fill the mid. He just understood the flow, could rip off improvisation at the drop of a hat, and instinctively picked up complex beats/riffs combos.
He went on to play in a local band with a guy who's gone on to compose for films. Neither made a break into the scene beyond pub band. I didn't even further my playing ability (I blame being a teenager who thought he could teach himself without understanding the basics).
I also know a session guitarist who's local band are the fucking dogs bollocks musically, but they can't get a break because they're a little too niche. He practices (obviously when he's not touring/recording) at least 6 hours a day, and still is never happy with his ability.
jvttlus ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 17:27:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
yeah but if you look at the most commercially successful guitarists of the past decades, none of them have been very good at "guitar" by objective standards. cobain, dylan, even guys like page were not guitar virtuosos by any stretch. no one has heard of alan holdsworth, guthrie govan, or any of the speed metal or jazz masters
--lI ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 20:31:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It seems that if you're not going to be great at guitar, then you'd better be a goddamn genius at some other aspect of music if you want to be a professional.
But plenty of people have heard of Hendrix, Clapton, Vaughn, Allman, Mayer, etc.
And most people haven't heard of Rachel Farrell and her multi octave voice when they think of great singers.
Because technique aint shit unless you can move people and speed metal is more about dazzling men than moving everyone. That's why Joe Satriani's most well known song is a love song.
I play guitar, and my guitar teacher teaches drums as well as guitar. He decided to give me a few lessons on the drums so I could learn to appreciate the importance of keeping good time. It took me about 40 minutes to get the basic 4/4 rhythm down properly, and he said that it wasn't unusual for people to take an entire hour lesson before they could play that one simple beat.
Eh. What are you guys teens? Yeah, if your just getting started, I suppose.
I had no problem getting into drums, but with that being said - it's because it's the only instrument you can practice without the instrument. I reckon I worked out rudimentary independence once or twice when I needed to kill time sitting down. Personally - drum rolls are where I stop and dedicated drummers start in my opinion. I don't think I'd even bother with that shit show without some pads to soften the blow, literally.
ASDMEL ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:43:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well, that's more than enough to go on tour and with some luck be succesful. Noone cares if you're actually great in playing guitar, noone will notice anyway. Outside of probably metal and jazz there is no need for great guitar players.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:30:54 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone wants to Bon Iver, but no one wants to be dumped and move into the woods to run away from their problems.
I had to take an into guitar class to pass HS and that shit is HARD to get the hang of (especially without any music education background). The class gave me a new appreciation for the guitar and music as a whole
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:05:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I think that pretty much any industrious person can learn to play the guitar very well from a technical standpoint. Writing good songs is much harder because the qualities that make a song "good" are pretty abstract and the skill it takes isn't necessarily one that improves with practice. It really is a gift that you have or don't have.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:43:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
i play IDGAF
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 18:19:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You should need a license to buy a guitar, I swear to God
Aside from the weirdly over complicated designs that some companies come up with, cars are exposed to the elements constantly. Think a bolt that has been exposed to the elements for 10+ years is going to come off easy? Think again.
In addition this this, specifications are things you absolutely need to take seriously. Things aren't just "good enough" when you're dealing with a 2,000 pound projectile.
Too many people have not just a blatant disregard for their vehicles safety, but almost an utter contempt for it.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:55:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I actually think the problem is that most people just believe a car is some perpetual motion machine that never needs maintenance or care. I was asked to look at a ladies car who complained there was a screeching sound when she braked the car. I am not a mechanic in anyway. I checked the break pads and there were no break pads. She had worn through the entire break pad and now the brake calipers were grinding into the brake disc. Like holy shit are you trying to kill your car, yourself, and everyone around you.
I've never seen anything like that but I've seen people who inflate their tires to something crazy like 80PSI because they think it will give them better fuel economy. It's like they can't understand what a blowout is.
My own experience was in a '57 Bel Air. Steering wheel's the size of a manhole cover. It had suspension from heaven and a V-8 from hell. 10/10 would recommend.
I'm an ex aircraft mechanic. My room mate is a super old dude who has never turned a wrench in his life. He's also pretty broke so when his brakes started squealing I told him I'd do all four for a case of beer. He said he'd like to watch me and I thought nothing of it, sure. When I got to a bolt which wasn't budging with my 12" ratchet he went into a nearly rageful panic, telling me that I've probably just cost him thousands in repairs for getting stuck. The fuck? I need a bigger fucking bar, and what the fuck extra would it cost you for having them finish the job anyway? A minute later and it was removed. I was stunned at his reaction though. I will no longer be offering my services to him.
I've come to greatly respect auto mechanics in the past year. No one realizes how scary cars actually are. We're all driving 1-2 ton pieces of metal at 60+ mph every day and most of the time, the vehicle is perfectly fine. It's crazy. The responsibility is so great when it comes to fixing cars.
And usually that exposed bolt has about 3000 different things in the access path of whatever tool you are using to remove it. Frustrating as hell.
Also, people really have no idea how much money mechanics spend on their tools. Can easily be over 100K over the career of a mechanic and that's an employed one not someone that owns their own shop.
tslc144 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:40:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How true this is is quite insane,my dad easily has 20kโฌ worth of tools /equipment and he isn't even a pro mechanic
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:35:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Probably true. I stay away from my vehicle's engine mechanics, just don't want to deal with all the bullshit. Changing any of the hoses/lines or air filter? Sure. When I start having to take shit apart to get to other shit to take it apart? Fuck that, that's why they have pros.
"You don't need to measure the gap on the spark plug. It's not like that matters. They just want to sell you that stupid ring thing."
The above quote is why my ex husband was never again allowed to touch my car, and why I started to learn.
If you're gonna work on a machine that depends on a whole bunch of pieces doing lots of things in a specific, rapid pattern in order to transport you safely to your destination- read. The. Damned. Instructions.
I am probably going to get downvoted into oblivion for this but politics: I am absolutely disgusted by the amount of laypeople who say that making policy is easy and that anyone can balance a checkbook.
Also every possible policy change that goes wrong people ''knew it all along that this was a bad idea'' (quoting half my family here) whereas if it goes right they never mention it again (confirmation bias is a thing people).
Yes! I study politics and work with non profits. I'm blown away by the number of people (friends, family, redditers) I interact with who seem to have absolutely no idea how the government actually works. Lots of people also can't seem to grasp the reverse invectives and unintentional effects of overly simplistic policies.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:45:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I agree. Politics is balancing the safety of others with economic growth with environmental concerns with cultural and social expectations with your own personal ideals. All while playing the long game because you don't have your job forever and you don't want to fuck over your colleagues too much to where no one will work with you again.
It's constant juggling of complex, highly nuanced variables. And the average layman who has none of that power or any of those responsibilities thinks surely they know all the answers.
I agree but having worked with politicians, I'm amazed how incompetent most of them are. If it wasn't for their staff constantly firefighting after every screw up, most of these clowns wouldn't last a single term.
The really surprising part is how many of them aren't actually good at politics! I don't expect them to be experts on health or education but you would think the art of politics is something they would have studied and refined for themselves. In many cases, they're pretty clueless about that as well. I often wondered how they had got this far (elected to the UK House of Commons).
Not even just on a professional level, I'm finishing up my degree in political science & economics and am yet to explain this to anyone without them explaining why every policy they've heard of (via the Daily Fail) is wrong and how the way they'd have solved the problems better.
Tried recently to explain change in voting patterns and demographics to my dad and was shouted down because apparently the in depth research I've been studying in the area pales in comparison to an article he seen in The Sun. =/
Graphic Design.
"I can use the quick-select brush to put your head on a cat's body, so I can definitely design your company's logo."
CDNChaoZ ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:17:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Too true. If you know Photoshop you must automatically know how to design a brochure or website.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:46:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My graphic design teacher told us flat out on the first day "You know nothing of graphic design, but the more you learn, the worse you will think you are, when the opposite is true," and my God he was right. As I progressed I disliked my work more and more, even though other people were saying that I was the best in class
CDNChaoZ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:26:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I guess it's a good thing I hate the stuff I produce then.
No, not everything is available on the Internet, let alone the World Wide Web, and your ability to search even that is awful.
Please stop by the reference desk. We really can help you.
zomb1 ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 19:17:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can you give a few examples? I work in academia, and the only time I ask librarians for help is when I cannot locate a book/journal that I already know of.
Mittee1 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 02:37:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have many tertiary students who don't know about Google scholar, or basic search engine searching techniques like using quotes and *
We can make subscription databases find stuff that you didn't know existed. We can do that faster and more effectively than most people because we use them all the time.
We can find information that is completely non-digital. Right now, I'm helping a professor compile for students local ethnography resources, almost all of which have no web presence at all.
Seriously, your reference librarian can make the research process a lot easier. They can find the materials you need quickly and are often knowledgeable about many topics.
Mittee1 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 02:41:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
People don't realise that you actually have to study to be a librarian! There's also shit loads of reader's advisory courses we have to go on to keep up with searching techniques, new software / databases etc.
If we're not talking about on the WWW (as in free access), then library subscription databases have vast sources of information that can't be found with a quick Google search--everything from lawnmower engine repair manuals to full-text neuroscience journal articles. There are audio books, comics, movies, and documentaries that you can download onto your phone, quickly, easily, and free.
Just one example: have you ever browsed through the database WorldCat? I don't mean the free one that you can find on the WWW, but the subscription-level one that libraries have. You can find almost any book anywhere in the US. And with interlibrary loan, you can get that book. I've used ILL to read--for free, mind you--very obscure comic books. I've used it to find periodical articles that barely exist in print and have no web existence whatsoever.
And all of this is without even touching upon the extremely specialized fields of genealogical, medical, and law librarianship. There, the gap between a Google search and the information that is actually available is gargantuan.
TazzzTM ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 15:45:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Play professional sports
โSadly though, it comes as a rude surprise to many athletes yearning for a professional sports career to learn that the odds against success are astronomically high. Approximately 1 percent of NCAA menโs basketball players and 2 percent of NCAA football players are drafted by NBA or NFL teams โ and just being drafted is no assurance of a successful professional career. โStudent-athletesโ whose sole and now failed objective was to make the pros suddenly find themselves in a world that demands skills their universities did not require them to learn.โ
ncaa.org
JacobJT ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:24:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That sounds low. I've heard 6% for NBA and 20 for NFL.
Aior ยท 56 points ยท Posted at 13:57:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Developers often think they know everything about computers and so they're good system administrators. No, they're not. Let us admins do our work.
One of our clients was in deep trouble because their entire 'IT department' was just developers that could reinstall windows. They willy nilly improved webapps and didn't consider the impact or the stability of these changes. When stuff started crashing the company literally had no way to process shipments for a week we had to get involved. The poor 'production servers' looked like development boxes someone would have in their bedroom!
I've worked with a lot of great developers, and they could be great at their job... their focus is simply different. A sysadmin focuses on uptime. You simply cannot ignore years of experience dealing with sysadmin issues. It's pretty common for people without experience to buy the cheapest crap possible and then wonder why everything runs like molasses. No! A desktop with 32GB of RAM is not a good substitute for a rack server.
Well put. The focus is very different and one of the challenges in the 'devops' world is for both developers and sysadmin/ops people to get good, clear communication and respect.
Anyways, why run on a server or even a desktop? Run it on a laptop, having a battery in addition to power cord is kind of like redundant power right?
Aior ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:09:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Anyways, why run on a server or even a desktop? Run it on a laptop, having a battery in addition to power cord is kind of like redundant power right?
Had a junior developer say that to me, I died a little inside that day.
eatonsht ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:38:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Whenever there is a problem everyone always starts with "It's the database that is messed up " No bro, it's your shitty code. How many times do I have to show you how to do your job before you believe me
Do you really get devs like that? I work for a pretty large company with around 200 devs on site and honestly I haven't heard one of them wanting to meddle with IT's workings. That shit's like black magic to us.
Aior ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:06:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, usually it's the junior guys or a bit more senior guys, but in a smaller company. I think that in a larger company when they see how many people here are running that stuff, they're naturally scared and somewhat see the complexity of the problem.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:47:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a programmer, I know a bit about sysadmin'ing (as most do), enough to know I'd be shit at it, and to be glad there are people like you to do it! I don't think I could handle the stress of being responsible for a server running
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 04:25:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's mostly fine. You only really get stressed when everything explodes without warning. In my experience it happens at 3AM, give or take an hour or so.
I'm a developer and I agree with you entirely. I know that I know next to nothing about how our network works but some colleagues will insist on coming up with crazy schemes to fix IT issues. Few of which ever actually work.
Usually they learn that they're not good administrators during a release. At least in my experience.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:45:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was a developer who didn't think that. One time I was having problems and the admin said he could give me root so I could fix it myself. I said "no thanks". I knew there was nothing good that could come from me having root on anything other than my test boxes. I also didn't want my phone going off at 2 AM.
[deleted] ยท 115 points ยท Posted at 12:39:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
kaenneth ยท 60 points ยท Posted at 18:02:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
But badly made porn is my fetish.
A skinny pimply guy, and an obese woman in a dank cheaply wood paneled basement, light by a single bare bulb. Old toys from decades past are piled in the corner; a Teddy Ruxpin with loose tape spilling out stares blankly with his one remaining eye. She is sweating and gasping for breath, while he is struggling to keep it up to shoot the whole thing in one take. Her vagina's 5 o'clock shadow scraping off his psoriasis fakes. A greasy fingerprint from the 'delivered' pizza eaten by the cameraman, who is actually her uncle, on the shaking camera lens; he is talking quietly, giving audible directions the whole time. The skinny guy's nose visibly wrinkles as he goes down on her, but he does it anyway. The final sad dribble of a facial, because he already jerked off that morning while thinking how exciting it will be to be in an actual porno; fade to black as she reaches for the remaining pizza.
pcyr9999 ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 20:52:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:13:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Homemade versus professional is what he's getting at. It's hard to make money off it but its not hard to make it in the first place. The hard bit is making it to a high quality and marketing it
Having sex is easy and setting up a camera is easy. Actually making money from porn videos, however, is really hard, and requires more professional quality which is really difficult to do.
I'm talking about amateur quality here. You can just use a $200 camera and mount it on a tripod, which is easy to do but won't give you the best quality.
His first statement would indicate that he was agreeing porn was hard. His second would indicate that professional porn was excluded.
Or at least that's how I read it. Then again I don't have to get into a dick size competition over who was at fault for a miscommunication over something as meaningless as "how challenging it is to make porn."
Go to your doc and get 20mg of beta blockers and take it an hour before you have to do a presentation. This has completely changed my career. I went from cold sweats, shakes, and complete nervousness while speaking in front of people to now I get sent around to all of our sister sites to be the "evangelist" of new tech projects we are doing. It's been a life changing discovery for me.
So much this. Doctors don't worry about prescribing them because they are not habit forming in any way and is very difficult (if possible at all) to overdose on them. And they are great because they don't give you any sort of mental fog. It just blocks those annoying things that torpedo your natural abilities.
I guess what I mean is that you won't accidentally overdose. When my doctor prescribed it, he said "start with one. If that isn't effective, take two or three more". Obviously take as recommended, but it's not one of those "really fuck you up if you forget and accidentally take a second dose."
bg-j38 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:34:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Apparently a lot of people use propranolol. I take it for general anxiety. I can see how it would be useful if you had stage fright.
That's what I use. I use 20-40mg before presentations or meetings with lots of people in them or that may get a little tense. It's a wonder medicine for me.
Wait this is a thing? I don't fear public speaking at all and can maintain my focus but my body acts up like a little bitch doing it, especially if it's something I'm passionate about (my voice was cracking during my best-man's speech at my best friend's wedding ffs)
This is absolutely a thing. I was the same way. I did public speaking all in high school and then something happened my freshman year in college. I wasn't afraid to talk in front of people but my flight/fight response would go crazy and my voice would crack, I'd sweat like crazy and my legs would actually get the shakes. 20-40mg of beta blockers and my fight/flight response is calmed and I'm back in front of 100s of people BSing like nobody's business.
Buspirone is an amazing drug. Keeps me calm when I'm under pressure. Makes me play kusic better, calms me down when the whole world looks like it's nearing it's end.
Timidor ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:44:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
At that point, dying is just the smart move.
Rac3318 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:43:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Takes a lot of practice. I was never specifically bothered with public speaking but that doesn't mean I was ever particularly good at it until I went to law school and started doing trial practice courses where I literally had to get up and talk in front of people constantly. People treat public speakers differently. They want to believe you're sincere, serious, convincing, and empathetic. It's more than just giving a speech to a room full of people or introducing someone else. Any old schmuck can do that because people don't care. That's all formalities. But to have to get up in front of a room full of people and put on a different face that you show to your friends at the local bar and talk uninterrupted to a room full of people that want to listen to what you have to say but may not want to believe you? That's tough. You have to be aware of how you speak just as much as what you're saying and you need to be aware of social cues and picking up on how an entire room of people is emotionally reacting to what you're saying. You need to be able to be a good speaker. Enunciating well, keeping your accent at the door.
People are scared of public speaking because they don't want to make a fool of themselves. My biggest difficulty was leaving my accent at the door. I grew up in Appalachian Mountains and moved to Boston. I have a very noticeable drawl, and my voice is deep which doesn't help. It took me a long time to not just speak loudly, but clearly in a way that people could understand me past my accent. I got better at cutting out my accent when I needed to but it took me a long time and a lot of practice and saying the same words over and over and over again focusing on how they were said in the community. Also took me a long time to, I suppose, lighten my voice? To not speak so deeply. People, especially older people, have to strain to hear those kind of voices.
While I, too, had to work on making my speaking accent a bit more clear, the biggest issue for me while learning to speak was projecting my voice more and making it more crisp. Growing up, I always had a very soft and mellow voice, so now I also have to sort of switch into my crisp, enunciated, projected public speaking voice.
I hate when people stand up, and are WAY over the top confident. They tell a stupid joke first. Then they give incoherent analogies that they have to stretch, just so they sound smart.
Being a great public speaker takes a lot of practice. And you MUST be prepared every time you do it. Professional public speakers, who give generally the same speech in a lot of places, still prepare specifically for each and every audience. That it comes off sounding extemporaneous takes tons of work to prepare, along with lots of years of practice.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:10:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
its actually not that hard. everybody can do it. you just need practice and everytime it gets a little easier. i personally am a natural and even when i do get nervous all that happens is my face gets a little red
Graphic design, just throw a few images here and retouch this, then put some copy in it and you're done. It's so easy, why can't you do it for me for free?!?!!
StubbFX ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:41:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I want it to 'pop' more! Why won't you make it pop off the screen more!
CDNChaoZ ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:16:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
With 20 revisions involved.
JasmF ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:37:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Came here to say this. If you don't know what "kerning" is, you should not be doing graphic design. If you do know what it means, you should be getting paid to do it.
Kerning is to care about the space between each character in every word. When designing a logotype (a logo with only letters) can be done manually by moving each character away or closer... what for? Depends on the perception you want to convey: closer characters project more logical or cheap meanings, while wide spaces between means intuitive or exclusive.
I have had problems with paragraph kerning, in which I had to edit it directly in the font file to get it changed automatically in every word on many paragraphs.
This isn't really that complex, but kerning in font design it is a very deep mastery I don't know anything about.
JasmF ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:12:12 on January 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Type-setting is getting text into a format. Kerning is the spaces between letters in words (and the spaces between words). When just typing here on the Internet, we have no control over those spaces; it's just typing. The same with body copy in an article; the spaces between the letters are set by the type style (font) being used. But a headline, a logo, a movie title on a poster, these things need to be kerned, and kerned well, yet it seems more and more I see "designers" just typing stuff out and walking away. It's not a hard process, either, at least on a Mac.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:44:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Music or songwriting. Source: I live in Nashville.
akesh45 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:28:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But everyone here is a amazing singer/song writer! /s
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:50:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The funny thing is there's however many hundreds of thousands of songwriters here and the vast majority suck ass and only play writers nights at Mexican restaurants. It's depressing how over saturated this town is with god awful writers.
akesh45 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:50:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've had a few whine to me about how it's all connections and heirarchy here among the writers....any truth to that.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:26:11 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sadly that does have some truth to it. I know a pretty prominent producer in town who always says "good has nothing to do with it". It's money, connections, and hype. Hype is the big one because you can create something out of nothing if you manage to get the right people hyping about it.
I am pretty good at most games I play, put 1000s of hours into some of them. I know I dont stand a chance againt the pros. The skill gap between myself and the pros is similar to the gap between these kids and myself, they simply do not comprehend how good these guys are.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:53:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They think they are one. I once had a trainer for a job brag about how he has a bad wrist because he is a "professional gamer". shakes head
I can only imagine the number of people that go to a doctor with a headache and tell them that "according to the internet, I either have a mild headache, or a brain tumor, which is it?"
Hahaha, I'm a medical student and had to go to the ER recently. While it turned out to be nothing big I was talking to the doctor and she found out I was studying medicine and had the reaction "I bet you instantly considered X,Y and Horrifying Death 9?" "Yep" "Yeah when I was studying I thought I had every problem under the sun anytime I felt a little odd."
I would have to disagree. Video game reviewing in video variety would be pretty easy, play the game to completion and then voice your opinion on the game. I would agree with what you say on the written reviews, those are very hard and painstakingly long.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:42:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
you are right it really does depend on who you know and watch when it comes to game reviews. there are some very big parallels in review quality. For example total biscuit goes very in depth in reviews showing the video options plus the overall game play mechanics before he gets into the meat and bones of the game. while IGN doesn't go as in depth but gives an okay rundown of the same game but in a shorter quicker video but not as detailed compared to total biscuit.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:27:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I tried some video game reviewing, just to remember the games I played. No one reads them, but they were god fucking awful.
akesh45 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 06:28:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Video game journalism is the arm pit of the field.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:18:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
akesh45 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 07:28:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
exactly...whenever I hear people wax poetically about the virtues of good video game journalism and the evils of biased reviews I laugh......most video game journalist would give they're left nut to work for a major newspaper.
Writing reviews of consumer products that buy ad space from you or even give you the item....no conflict there.
trextra ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:01:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
ITT: Most skilled tasks are not necessarily difficult to do, just difficult to do well. And that's why we pay other people to do them when results matter.
It irks me whenever I see some aspiring person who has good intentions, and who thinks they could maybe make a higher-quality video, with more plot, with more substance than Nicki Minaj's Anaconda video or such and such, but then they don't do any real research/ask any professionals/look at example works. Then it produces, often, videos shot with an iphones edited in friggen video star that have no sense of design, no plot, and end up as a lesser-quality Anaconda music video.
However, on rare occasion, there is a diamond in the flood of videos with twenty-something filters, that have the sense to match up the music beats to the plot of the video, some person who uses windows movie maker and doesn't apply that shitty goddamn rainbow effect and some good fellow who took the time to realise the amount of noise grain was ridiculous, and learned how to click 3 buttons in audacity that took away that weird high-pitched-sound in the background.
But ignoring quality, you would have to acknowledge that it's hard for the average layperson to make a video because of inconveniences layered upon more inconveniences. (cost, time, etc)
The thing is that "good" is subjective. For instance, if a person goes into McDonald's expecting filet mignon, it doesn't matter how good their burger tastes, or how perfectly it was prepared, etc, that person is going to be angry that it's not filet mignon, even though they're at a fast food restaurant paying fast food prices. It's good to strive for the best quality you can give your customers, but some people just have ridiculously unrealistic expectations, and therefore can't appreciate things for what they are.
Psychiatry. My sister likes to think she's a therapist. I get an anxiety attack over tuna salad and she just tells me that my thinking isn't rational. No shit. I have a master's degree in Mathematics. I know what's rational and what's not rational. I know freaking out over tuna salad is not rational but my brain can't process that right now.
The more successful mine's become, the more yer-doin-it-wrong advice I get from people who have never had one.
I'm a sponge for advice from other businesspeople in my industry, but randos who wanna tell me my job can go kick rocks.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:51:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My dad has a home business, and the amount of patience required for dealing with questions that could be answered in five minutes is almost impossible.
Just because you can put perfect, photo ready makeup on your own face does not mean know how to put it on someone else's face. Everyone has differently shaped faces and features, and some people find that a hard concept to grasp.
bulletm ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:24:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Interesting, I never thought of it like that!
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 15:43:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Degg19 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 22:16:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
its not hard to cook....its just hard to cook for people.
The one time I offered to make breakfast solo for 10 hungover people in a rented cabin taught me that I'd fucking hate to be a cook. And that was just making a ton of breakfast burritos.
Just because anyone can cook doesn't mean anyone can be a chef. Put another way, yes, anyone can cook out of a box, or following your grandmother's nephew's second wife's father's secretary's poundcake recipe, but that doesn't make you Martha Fucking Stewart or Bobby Fucking Flay.
OMG, yes. So many damn people think cooking is easy. Almost anyone can follow a recipe, my sister can't even do that but will give cooking advice to anyone who'll listen. I'm sorry but seasoning salt and BBQ sauce do not need to be on everything you cook.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:56:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cooking with a recipe is easy. So easy even I can do it.
Coming up with your own recipes that don't suck is the hard part. It takes a lot of knowledge and practice. You need to know a lot of different techniques, flavor profiles, you need to know what spices go together and on and on and on.
My dad, who used to suck balls at cooking, has spent the last 20 years learning how to do all of the above. He has no other motivation other than the fact that cooking is a kind of therapy for him(helps him forget about the shit he puts up with at work) and that it's always easier to get a meal you want if you cook it yourself.
As for myself, I'm the same way with my photography. I take great pictures and shitty pictures. It's just a hobby.
Playing hockey. Thought I was so great at it growing up playing all the time on the pond and organized house leagues. Always thought man if I just had a chance I could have made it.
Then the fateful day of playing against an ex-AHLer(Dustin Wood) that didn't come close to making the NHL. That guy skated circles around me like I was standing still while doing things with the puck I didn't even know existed. Professional athletes really are incredible at their sport and the reason it can look so easy from afar is because it is to them.
I once watched a charity football (soccer) game that a number of my friends were playing in. All of them in their early to mid twenties and pretty fit guys. On the other team was an 60-year-old former international, they thought their superior fitness would help but they couldn't get anywhere near him. It was especially funny since he barely moved out of the centre circle all game and didn't break into a sweat.
People seem to forget that the other team are also professionals and are trying their best to win the game too.
I think most of the people I know think they can't play hockey for shit because they can't skate. Guys that I play with also know their skillset. I've never heard anyone have any sort of NHL delusion though.
But you are right about AHLers being damn near legendary- I remember seeing a video of some ECHLer skating circles around some guy, and how Cam Janssen (AHL-call up who played for the Devils) would go to open hockey nights with random people, from beginners to NCAA guys, and he'd be far and away the best person on the ice.
Well pretty much everyone in southern Ontario from my generation can skate. I was always better than my friends on the pond - I grew up on it from like age 2. I just always thought I could have made a run at the NHL if my parents had the money to invest in anything other than house league and if I had a chance. I was wrong.
Also assume not "everyone" thinks this way but I am sure enough people do that spent time in the respective sports. The pros make it looks like it's easy on TV and as someone else alluded to, when they are playing each other they all have the same basic skills the strength of which can be quite deceiving until you've actually played against one or in your case, seen a pro play against a non-pro.
More anecdote: I know a couple of guys who were really really good at football. Thought they could make the CFL. Took part of one of the open tryouts for the Argos and were just brutalized.
web design, seems anyone who knows html and css calls themselves this. It's not really about knowing how to code that's the problem, it's having an eye or knack for what makes things look beautiful, and not many people have that
zhalo ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:32:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know HTML, CSS, PHP, and MySQL pretty well. I have an eye for websites that look beautiful. But somehow, I cannot actually make a website look beautiful. Just cannot. I can make a website look professional and decent. But to put it all together to create something beautiful, I have to bring in an actual designer. Invariably, the designer won't change a whole lot of my work, but somehow, all of those little changes come together into something beautiful. I have the skills but not the art. I'm just glad that I can see the difference because most people can't.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:41:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
zhalo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:39:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When I worked corporate, I always had designers on staff. When I went into consulting, I started subbing out design to people who used to work for me or whoever the client already has available (if the client has someone decent, which oftentimes, they don't). Sometimes, I'll contract someone who works for my husband. Most of the designers I've worked with over the last decade are friends and acquaintances who work full time as a designer and are just earning some extra bucks in their spare time working for me.
Joe1972 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:40:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Interpret evidence. Just because you've read a newspaper article on something scientific you now think your opinion should count the same as that of someone who studies that specific phenomenon for a living?
Just get the fuck out of here already. I'm a full time researcher with a shitload of experience in interpreting evidence and would still not necessarily argue with an expert from a different field. Reading a few online pages does NOT equate dedicating your life to the study of a field.
Just staying within your field of speciality. People have such a hard time with this. I'm an RCEP, specializing in cardiac rehabilitation and high-risk population sports therapy. I can't diagnose podiatric problems in a baseball player any more than a chemist can tell you how atmospheric currents work.
Multitasking, so many think they are good at it, but your not. As you type on your phone you think you're hearing me but you aren't. ... Kory...
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:25:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Manage a staff. People seem to think that being a manager involves firing people who are late, making up arbitrary rules and playing a LOT of solitaire. At most places management also means operations. So you have to schedule and payroll, make sure everyone is actually doing the job they were hired for, keep the quality up, do shipping and receiving, inventory, ordering, etc etc etc. Basically everything involved with running a franchise that isn't standing at the register or cleaning something falls to you.
This. After 30+ years in the IT Industry, I think that people management at the first line level is one of the hardest jobs around. If there's credit to be taken, it goes to the people above you. If there's blame to be doled out, it goes to the front line managers. I have always had great respect for managers who can do the job well.
Sanhael ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:29:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Write, in accordance with whatever style is needed for a particular purpose. I write copy for a living, and I invariably get "I'd do it myself, but I don't have the time" right before they try to argue my rate down... when, as often as not? It's something they wrote that I'm being asked to improve upon.
Most artistic professions such as dancing, musician, acting painting etc.
For every person that is the best dancer, musician or actor in their school or gets a degree in all of the above there are 10,000 other people who are the all of the above.
As a newish teacher, absolutely this. Everybody thinks about quitting their job and "just teaching" but not a lot of people are going to be great at it!
Who in their right mind would think they can do anything professionally? The fuck
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 06:33:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Gotta go with graphic designer. The market in my town is totally flooded with "freelance designers" who know basic photoshop/illustrator and think they can charge insane prices for average work. 90% of their work is designing logos for local bands. The funny part is that all their work looks similar. I know nothing about Illustrator or other design software, but there must be some reason for that.
Pupazz ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:37:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be "professional". Far too many times I've heard a manager/boss who can't keep a schedule, take responsibility, and is otherwise inept, incompetent and obstructive have the nerve to criticise the professionalism of others. I know that isn't quite what the OP asks, but its the first thing that came to mind seeing as they seem to think "off the bottom rung" = "beyond reproach" so often.
I actually don't care how shitty a manager is, as long as they don't consider themselves infallible. If you act like it's your employees' job to be able to roll with your shitty performance, you suck at your job.
iamkuato ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:36:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teach.
Everyone thinks they know what it is to be a teacher. Honestly, I have heard people talk about retiring from their job and becoming a teacher in their golden years - an easy way to keep occupied and give something back.
As if education, licensure, training, and experience don't fit into the equation at all. And as if teaching isn't one of the most challenging and taxing careers available.
Lyeta ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:25:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm in the education field. Folks are always going 'This is what I want to do when I retire! It seems like it's so much fun and so easy, you just talk about history all day!'
I do have a good time at my job. But I also stand 8 hours a day, talk to thousands of people, have to do hours upon hours of research, write incredible numbers of papers, create large numbers of programs (most of which get passed over) and apply for a huge number of grants/support positions.
It's like my job is something frivolous side work and super easy. Just the walking and standing would destroy most people.
I can dig that. Your probably right on the data side if it....maybe. However, my buddies seem to see this in every school they worked at. I'll have to ask them again if it has changed. But they still agree that most teachers are babies about it.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:44:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not necessarily "professional", but I've always found it funny how almost all guys think they just instinctively know how to grill. Like, proud about being completely lost in the kitchen, but think they're the absolute master of the grill.
Nah dude, throwing a boneless chicken breast onto a propane grill and flipping it once or twice doesn't make you some kind of master. Outdoor cooking is still cooking and almost all basic principles apply to both equally.
I've been told by many girls that I have magic hands. But holy shit, to do that for several hours a day, 5+ days a week? No thanks. I might be pretty great for 10 - 15 minutes but by then my hands and arms are done son. How do people keep that up for an hour+ for a single appointment? And don't get me started on how much I hate using oils...But it's all worth it when it turns from massage to sex haha
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:32:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Calm down buddy I was referring to the sex that happens after I give massages not what happens in a professional setting lol. The sex that comes after my massages is pretty much the only reason I give them in the first place.
Politics. (At least, i'm focusing on American politics.)
We honestly all believe all politicians are idiots who can't get anything right. If they're idiots, we're fucking retards because we're the one who got them elected.
These guys have trained for the position and we have to realize, they don't have as much power as we think they do. If they wanted to do something, they'd have a long process to get things done. It's long on purpose so people don't just willy-nilly pass bills. Do you know how long the process is for the president to pass a bill? It takes fucking forever. They have to pass (IIRC) four stops in the House of Representatives and see if everything is okay with everyone, then it has to go through the Senate to see if it's okay in there. The thing is, even on the first stop in either place, that bill can easily be thrown away. Even on the last stop, if it seems good and ready to go, they take a vote and if it doesn't sound right to the majority, it's trashed. Plus, considering that the current Congress (House and Senate) are so divided in their mindsets on what's best for them rather than the people, they can't get anything done.
These guys wanted the job and we gave it to them. It's stressful to all hell, they have to make sure everything goes right for everyone. Now, don't get me wrong, there are major, MAJOR, idiots who could have done something to prevent what had happened. coughFlintWaterCrisiscough. But overall, things take forever to happen, if you honestly want to take the job, by all means, go ahead and run for office, just remember it's not as easy as people believe because of all the laws, regulations, and lack of power you have.
Juzey ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:51:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
YouTube. Yes, anyone can upload a video and put it on YouTube. But if you don't make incredibly good videos consistently, or do but don't promote them, you'll be lucky to get 100 subscribers. And making a video takes a lot more time than most people realise - the editing alone can take hours.
You have no idea how many people think they can buy a DSLR and instantly take photos they pay $100 and up for. The amount of people who tell me "Oh yeah, I'm gonna buy a cannon 5Dmk3 and just take the photos myself"
Dude, just buying "the best" camera won't make your photos better if you don't understand how to properly take a photo or even edit them after you do. Most people shoot in Automatic mode and just increase the contrast on it in Picassa.
Literally anyone can take photos, and so long as they aren't a professional photographer who is charging other people for their photos, what do you care what method they prefer to take them?
Teaching. It's easy to do terribly. Very hard to get it right.
SnakPak_ ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:55:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
From a ton of photos on Facebook, I'd say modeling. As a kid I did some little commercial stuff for Target back in the day, and smiling is hard.
AxmxZ ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:04:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
If you are an immigrant: interpreting.
Every halfway proficient immigrant has probably been asked by their older family members to interpret for them. "Well, this was easy!" they think, buoyed by their aptitude in a low-pressure situation with no quality control. "Why don't I do that for a living?"
I dunno, how about your unintelligible accent? poor memory? slow reaction time? the fact that your 'translation' is just a string of calques?
And that's how one gets court interpreters with 20 years' experience casually translating "driving while impaired" to a defendant as "driving in a poorly functioning car" during arraignment.
Rap. A lot of people dismiss rap music as mindless chanting, but it takes real musical skill to construct/write verses and execute them alongside the beat. Flow is SO underrated - sounds easy, but if you recorded yourself and listened to it you'd likely sound like shit.
Teach. Have you spent the vast majority of 8 hours talking to 7th graders? It's an exhausting grind knowing that everything you say and do is being picked up by them and changing who they are / who they'll become. Not to mention you go home and have to plan/mark for the next day... Or knowing that you teach kids whose parents are completely fucking nuts, so as much damage as you try to undo in a day, they're doing home and getting screwed up again. It's a rough gig.
But then you get those moments where a kid looks at you, and you know that you've changed their lives. Those are the ones that make it worthwhile.
I feel ya! I teach elementary kids and it's stressful at times. It's worse when idiotic parents complain about shit that didn't happen. I'd like to see a few of those parents try teaching for a day... I'm sure they'd crack!
Become a rapper. A lot of wordplay, syllables, tongue twisters, puns come into it. There's songs with substance, music with meanings & then, there's young thug.
My friend said he got a second job being a bartender to make some extra money. I asked if he had any specialty drinks that he likes to make, and he said he didn't, but he'd make whatever. I asked him for a margarita and to have full access to my small liquor cabinet. He reached for the vodka.
I dont drink but even i know the base for margaritas isnt vodka, like wtf. I googled what it was, tequila, makes sense, both are of Hispanic origin, I think
jaehoony ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:30:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I fully trust vending machine to dispense drinks properly and I don't need a wink from a bartender.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 16:12:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Social media advisor/consultant. Because you have an account does not make you a marketing expert.
zhalo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:22:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There are so many people out there who think they can build a Facebook page with 100k followers, and that's their entire marketing plan. No writing skills. No graphic design skills. No marketing or demographic research. Etc.
CDNChaoZ ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:14:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Conversely while I recognize certain expertise is required, I really don't see how someone can make a full time job out of it for a small to midsize business.
Small business - no. Medium business - yes. I think that small businesses would be better off hiring someone who could handle some admin work in addition to knowing how to market on social media. For a medium size business you could absolutely have someone full time, but it would be important for them to also be a good content creator/writer for maintaining the blog and website, as well as someone who knows a bit of code to update the website. So in other words, when you're hiring for small or medium companies you have to be able to find someone who can wear a few different hats.
akesh45 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:25:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Usually they are a contractor and handle multiple business at once.
Home renovations! The weekend worker, the guy who thinks he can do it all but ends up spending more because he's needs someone to come fix what he fucked up
Cassandj ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:14:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That. My father is a professional and he built our house and did a very fine job.
Many of our friends have done it too. Well, I can't tell you how many times he's told me he'd never buy their house because they did such a poor job.
That's me right now. I have a background in it so it won't need to be redone, I'm just regretting not paying someone because I dislike the work. It's a great reminder why I never went past the apprentice stage.
MpVpRb ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:50:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Paint
..a house, a room, etc
I was trained by a top professional, and can do it better than most, but not nearly as good as my teacher
The quality of work I see frequently, even in hotels or other commercial buildings, is atrocious beyond belief
My wife thinks she can paint. I try really hard to be kind to her as I take the brush and say "I'll take it from here"
My husband is a house painter and it is amazing how many people will build a very expensive new house then try to do the staining/painting themselves. DIY painters are much like amateur photographers, not good, but no one will tell them.
MpVpRb ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:26:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you know how to do it, it's obvious
Sloppily getting wall paint on wood trim, hinges or other hardware, finish so rough it feels like sandpaper, blotchy and uneven coverage, uneven texture, the wrong kind of paint for the job, poor surface preparation, painting over grease and dirt, cracking, bubbling, peeling, etc...
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:29:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lol you just described my brother in laws house. Good it's awful.
My dad paints on the side, he charges pitance because HE LOVES IT. I've never met a man who loved just painting houses. He will by some vodka and just get on with the job, maybe play music.
Yeeeeees. I too was naive to think painting was easy..until I went into that line of work. I like to say anyone can paint...but not everyone can paint well.
After a while bad paint jobs become obvious to you...you can never un see it wherever you go, restaurants hotels homes..what I notice most is 'weak brush strokes' on corners and trim.
EDIT: Forgot to mention that my sister and her husband painted their whole house a few years ago and I cringe everytime I'm there. The excess paint drips on some of those walls make you wonder..
I am not a professional but a perfectionist when it comes to painting. A friend of mine was flabbergasted that it took me weeks to paint my whole house myself. He said that he and his kids painted their entire interior in an afternoon. Once I visited his house, I understood why.
BM_3K ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:08:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
my dad spent the majority of his career building houses and painting is something he takes very seriously. when its time to repaint a room or some siding he is fucking meticulous and doesn't settle for anything but the best. painting is also something that he says he would refuse to do professionally because its too damn hard to do good work at he pace that's expected.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:24:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Every Dad (aka my dad) who thinks that carpentry, landscaping, plumbing, electricity, and car work is an innate skill for all men. You're a lawyer Dad not Bob the Builder.
My grandpa is a carpenter so I got to grow up being his apprentice and learning aspects of all those manly jobs. I can do them, but I'm fucking hating it. Shit was a lot cooler when I was the apprentice, getting paid, and not stressing about fucking up my property.
I'm gonna finish renovating this house(my first) then I'm fucking done being Bob the Builder.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:01:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Make jewelry. I know so many white girls in their 20s that have a "jewelry business". Buying string and a pendant from a supplier on Etsy, making a necklace out of said pendant and string, then selling said necklace in your own Etsy store does not make you a jewelry designer.
I always thought high knowlage of excel was basic calculations and charts.....never have I been so wrong
moneymet ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:31:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I took a small course that had a bit of Excel on the side, so take these advices with some grains of salt. I'm pretty much a beginner.
Make different sheets for different types of information. I'm not sure what you're going to use Excel for, but most documents have information that's rather static, such as percentages. You should probably reference to only one cell with the value instead of just writing the number directly into your calulation. That makes it pretty easy to affect all the cells that use that value of the static cell.
Learn VLOOKUP. It's really powerful early on and looks like magic. It basically takes the value from one cell and compares it to a part of a column you choose. If the value is equal to or is closest(can be changed to exact only), but not under to one of the cells in your column, it will pick the value to the right of that cell. How many cells it is to the right can be written in the function.
^ Works for names too, but not sure how it works if the value is not exact. Works great for functions that needs information on people or things with an ID number.
Say you have 2 sheets, one for orders and one for item information. If you have the ID of the item in the order sheet, you can use that number as the reference number and find the right information in the item info sheet, such as price and weight.
Just ask if something isn't explained well enough.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:28:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Pivot tables are very quick to learn and can be very useful.
Hepcatoy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:31:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Professional event/wedding/party planners.
It takes serious organization, great leadership skills, and an amazing network of associates. It's much more than just making reservations and picking colors.
Oh, and this is the season for this answer: Political campaigns. Your surefire strategy for winning is stupid and will not work.
I used to work on campaigns, and there are a ton of things that go into campaign decisions. Not all of them are smart, but the regular dumbfuck on the street is almost always overconfident and almost always wrong.
My favorite example of this is when political journalists run a campaign or run for office themselves. It always goes incredibly badly, and you can see their demeanor change as they realize it's not so easy after all.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:51:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think a lot of reddit thinks delivering packages is easy. But you have to find up to 200 places a day, then find the right package per house in a ton of other packages in your truck. And you can't get dyslexic at all or you'll have misdeliveries. And you have to do it all in a small time-frame.
In general the supposed unskilled manual labor jobs tend to be underestimated. 'Anybody can do it' and yet the attrition rate for new hires would indicate that's not exactly true.
Proofreading/editing. People think that just because they got a 2:1 in English and "proofread" their friends' essays at uni, they can call themselves a professional and charge knock-down fees. Maybe they "have an eye" for spotting typos in their daily newspaper? "Proofreader". Teach middle school English? "Proofreader". Read 10 romance novels a month? "Proofreader". Once won the school prize for spelling? "Proofreader". There are so many blatant charlatans out there, and it's only worsened with the rise of self-publishing.
There is so much more to the profession than spotting typos and fixing the odd spelling mistake โ it takes a skilled, highly trained, highly experienced (in a wide variety of styles and genres) professional to edit and/or proofread text to a high and publishable standard. There are rules upon rules upon hidden rules, and if you don't yet know them and how to implement them, you don't yet have the right to call yourself a proofreader.
As a multi-published author, i.e., a person who is admittedly a better writer than 99% of people out there, I would never attempt to be my own editor or proofreader. I think people don't get that it's an entirely different skill set, using an entirely different part of the brain, and that just because you can slog through writing a novel with some cohesion, that doesn't mean you are in any way qualified to edit or proofread anything. I have been super fucking nice to every editor I've ever worked with for that reason.
You, my friend, are my kind of author! Writers like you make my life so much easier, and more rewarding. By the way, congrats on all of your publishing success โ I've done this job for more than 10 years, but I'm always in awe of writers who are able (and have the talent and discipline) to keep turning out great work. :)
Generally, computers are easy. Maintain, fix problems, fixing hardware problems, etc... generally easy. But then again, I design the computer systems and chips, so I might be a little jaded.
Negotiating. Just because you've seen a few shit episodes of American Pickers or those twats who run a pawn shop on TV dosn't mean your a fucking expert about negotiation techniques and haggling. From my experience over the years, there are proper ways to go about it and for those who take an interest let me shed some light on the situation. First of all I run a vintage-retro shop (Proof: CoolStuffWeirdThings. Com) in Nashville which i buy, sell and trade. I have dealt with everthing from high end clients to the regular joe-shmoe coming into the shop to sell thier grandma's porcelain doll collection for a bag of weed. Never a dull moment around here. I price everything here in the shop correctly the first time as to not have to deal with the misinformed and misguided. DON'T EVER approach me with an item and say for example, "I will give you 5$ for this". You do not tell me what your going to pay for my product. This will not only get your shit thrown in the trash right in front of you, but a tutorial on bargaining tips as well as a thorough cussing out. Instead say, "Would you be willing to take 5$ for this?" or "Would you be willing to come down on the price?". You catch more flies with sugar than you do vinegar. Volume selling is also the key here. The more you spend, the better deals you get. I tend to get offensive about this subject because there is so much work that goes into the shop that some people are just clueless about. Would you walk up to the register at Chipotle and tell them your only going to give them 2 dollars for your burrito? Do you ask the employee at Target "Where do you get all this stuff?". The cool and weird stuff i sell, you can't just buy at walmart and takes not only the right eye but lots of footwork and establishing connections. Rent is expensive for brick and mortar, electricity, inventory etc. Think about these things before trying to lowball somebody and maybe you get that killer deal on a piece of treasure that will bring you total happiness. Or, you can just get the fuck out of my shop and tell your friends!
Teaching. A class might tolerate you for an hour, but the real fun begins when they get to know you. Knowing how to manage a classroom is far more difficult than a guestlesson might lead you to believe.
A lot of the times the kids are only being decent because they respect their teacher, who is also in the room.
Jaws76 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:14:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Farming is brutal labor.....next time you visit a winery venture out to beyond the tasting rooms and into the fields.
No guarantee that your toil will result in anything. A highly respectable and ancient profession
Sing/be a musician. No, no you don't sound as good as you think. Ask Simon and he'll tell you how dreadful that was.
Merovean ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:57:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
PHOTOSHOP and hell photography in general. We've created a generation of deluded that are pretty certain their snapshots off their iphones are fucking gold.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:16:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Science, idiots who've got an 8th grade education and has read a listicle about climate change or organic food or vaccines will try to cram some bullshit down your throat at parties and conversations that should be reasonable become a one sided lecture from some mothbreather who couldn't tell an antibody from a hole in the wall
I Fucking Love Science has ruined a generation and makes a ton of people think that being a scientist is fun and easy when the truth of the matter is that cool discoveries and experiments are really rare and if you are the researcher that makes that cool discovery, you will grow to hate it as it becomes the one thing you are known for and practically get you pigeonholed into only discussing your cool discovery from 20 years ago. Real scientists are cool, but it's pretty boring work with a real hit of ecstasy when your paper gets accepted by a major journal
Voice acting. Being into anime/manga, I see a lot of people think they have the talent to become a voice actor (not gonna lie, I thought so too). WAY harder than people make it out to be.
agreed. Once upon a time, I directed/produced 30sec TV Commercials, involving Voice Talent.
I would give them a direction like "on the 3rd sentence, shave 1/4 a second off, and add more weight to the 2nd sentence. Then build into sentence 3, trail down, then back up but add 1/2 second to that line"
and then watch them do just that. Then repeat it for another take.
Sometimes close your eyes and just listen to the audio of a national level TV or Radio spot. There's talent there. Plus of course having a voice that demands to be 'heard' and can be unique.
Philosophy. You need ironclad critical thinking, and the creativity to apply it. Armchair philosophers just spout nonsense and think it's deep just because it is hard to understand
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 07:16:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Play video games. It's way harder and more time consuming than just playing games all day.
Photography. Difference between a Professional and Amateur? The ablity to get that shot again and again. Not just one in a hundred, with auto focus and auto setting and so forth. I am an amateur who captures some good shots. I can not make a living this way. But in some ways not being the pro at a wedding can net some beautiful shots.
I sit down and am happy with my progress. Take it away pro photographers.
Killing someone.
Everyone is so conditioned to the hyper lethal protagonist so prevalent in modern media, and the ease with which they dispatch their enemies, that the public (especially adolescents greatly exposed to FPS's COD or similar) take it to mean that such combat in reality is as clean cut and easy.
On a similar note, most harbour the delusion that they could take down a hostile gunman without undue difficulty
The beechcraft doesn't hold the name Doctor killer for nothing.. They tend to be horrible pilots because they do not or barely maintain the skills required.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:15:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That, and once you work your ass off for that long and become a doctor everything else becomes a game of "how hard can it be?"
eatonsht ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:39:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'll be a doctor soon. Can't wait to buy a beech
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:58:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teach. Most people seem to think that we put on videos and babysit all day but in reality being an engaging and interactive teacher while meeting the various needs of 20+ kids while managing behaviors for 8 hours straight everyday is very difficult.
But "Facebook lawyers" who watched law and order know how to... Those people piss me off, yes, there are some bad cops but 99.9% are good and do it because they care about their community. They sure as hell aren't doing it for the money. And in some of these shootings where they love to bitch and complain and say "it was just a toy" well here is what you can get a wal mart http://www.walmart.com/ip/H-K-USP-CO2-.177-BB-Pistol/22171921
Even on a bright sunny day, and the suspect pulls it out slowly, it's impossible to tell until you actually inspect it. But, I can understand why they don't take that chance.
The worst is social media marketing for multi level marketing companies. You can tell someone starts posting questions that are designed to create interactions so that their other posts get put in more people's news feeds. "What have you learned on YouTube" or "I hate doing dishes, what's your least liked chore"
zhalo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:27:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I immediately delete any friend who gets involved in MLM just so that I don't have to see this nonsense. Just nope right out of that.
I want to lump working for Starbucks in here. People always comment on how friendly Starbucks is, or how unfriendly. Either your barista has plastered a fake smile on, or they finally broke down from he stress.
oneiro ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:26:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Doctor, because Google and WebMD.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 14:56:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
You have to be careful and do your research, but honestly, I have had to figure out every single health problem I've had in the last few years on my own. If it's not something very simple doctors just shrug and say "I dunno but it's probably ok." It drives me up the wall. Everything was an easy fix, but I had to figure that fix out myself from trial and error / the internet.
These things included a magnesium deficiency, a vitamin b deficiency, a poor reaction to simple carbs, and a host of psychosomatic issues that psychologists claimed were medical, medical doctors claimed were mental, and mysteriously instantly disappeared when I started taking SSRI's. It's not fun to feel like you're dying all the time, go to the doctor once a week and have an unnecessary emergency room visit about once a year and have everyone say "No, I'm pretty sure you're imagining that. But not in a way I can do anything about. You just have to live with it."
Yup, I'm sure all of those self diagnoses are 100% correct and real
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 20:21:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well if a problem goes away when I treat for that problem then I'm going to assume I was right. Forgive me for not wanting to live with palpitations, chest pain, difficulty breathing, shakiness, twitchy eyes, blurry vision, and the sensation that my heart was struggling to beat.
Umm perhaps at times, but I know my kids better than they do. Daughter #2 used to have a cycle of tonsillitis;
Week 1. Has Tonsilitis takes ALL antibiotics
Week 2. Rundown and unhappy
Week 3. Starts to perk up
Week 4. Starts with the cough, the funny smell on her breath, temperatures and vomiting.
Go back to week 1. This happened for nigh on a year from aged 2 to 3 when they finally agreed to take the damn things out. But I would ring the Dr and explain all the above and they would read her notes and still insist on just giving her calpol. The last time they did this, I took her straight to the med centre. She proceeded to vomit over the receptionist and her desk, the duty nurse, the Dr and the Student Dr who was watching the consultations.
For then onwards she had a repeat prescription I could just call in and collect, and, if I was going to be away from home, a bottle with the powder in to make up if needed.
Really? While I'll agree coding at a professional level isn't a walk in the park learning to code at a basic level isn't too difficult. Of course the amount of effort it will take comes down to what you want to do with the knowledge. But in a dirt simple language like python it really wouldn't take too long to get the basics down. And once you understand the basics branching out to learn what you want is certainly achievable if you put the hours in. There's plenty of great free resources online just a google away.
Yeah absolutely, on a basic level it's quite logical!
I spent a couple of months learning basic Java, was great fun. Made a basic 2D platformer game with my own resources etc.
What I'm saying is that most people I know don't realise that on a basic level coding isn't too hard, so even the code for the first gui thing I learnt; a pop-up window, looked like 'crazy hacker mumbo jumbo you're a genius' to someone unwilling to look into it any deeper than the surface level.
bjsy92 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:45:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wish I knew the basics. It seems like another world.
I have the basics, but there is ZERO way I could even begin to apply for any type of job where python is a required skill. I think that's why there is a little backlash with saying "oh just teach everyone to code because coding is the only way to a worthwhile job!!!1!" Granted, I am teaching myself but I honestly wonder if I will ever be competent enough to not feel like a complete tool applying for a job with it.
pushad ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:35:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But then there are others who think you can go on Codecademy or take some coding boot camp and get a development job instantly.
Our non-technical staff think that our dev team are some kind of magicians. Which is great because our old boss used to dismiss our estimates on tasks all the time because "it's just adding a few more buttons".
bratzman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:39:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I think it depends. It looks hard from the outside. But after you do some of the basics and it makes sense, that's when you start to get the delusions of grandeur sinking in.
I think a lot of people who've done some very basic thing thinks they know something magic and that they're fantastic at it. But it's only after you've been forced to try yourself properly that you understand how well you can do anything.
Sure, you can make a very simple thing happen. Now what?
It's like playing musical instruments. You may be able to play a song, but that doesn't mean you're any good as a mucisian. I know plenty of people that would never think that they could begin playing. It's just that the ones who have started often write themselves up as either a genius or a failure very quickly. It's only when you start to realise that having some basic competency you're not so good as anyone else that you start to know if you're actually any good.
No one says they would never be able to start learning an instrument, as most people can do the basics of each instrument easily.
But in my experience, no one thinks the same about coding, because it has this stigma akin to rocket science. Even though it's just as easy to do on a basic level as a musical instrument.
Which is why, based on the people I know, I don't believe coding to be an appropriate answer on this thread.
Every college kid who's taken to programming seems to think coding is so simple and once you learn a few basics you can do anything.
No shit it seems like that, college kid, every project/problem you've worked on has been hand crafted to be solvable by someone at your skill level. Most problems in the world are not like that.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:50:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But what's the point of a CS degree when I can learn to program video games in PHP on codeacademy?
It's good that people of this generation can learn how to program easily, and we have nice high level languages for a lot of things, but I hate how every newspaper seems to be saying you can "learn 2 code in 2 weeks" and buy a Lambo with your app store revenue (especially as that requires more business skills than programming prowess)
[deleted] ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 16:21:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Coding is not just hard because its a difficult thing to learn its hard because it is the most mind numbingly boring thing i can think of. You literaly sit and Wright lines for hours on end like a school punishment but as a job
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:52:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you're doing front end work maybe, but if you're working on something interesting, it's quite enjoyable IMO working out how to solve the problem (though once you have done so, implementing it is sometimes a lot of boring typing)
akesh45 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:24:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Coding is like guitar....it's not fun until your good.
yumny ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:59:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Writing. Most people think they could cram out a novel or write for a magazine on a whim, but writing is seriously hard and takes a lot of time and practice. Writing books in particular is a lengthy, tedious operation with a small success rate.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:15:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can confirm. Threw my life away because I thought being in challenger will most likely get me into the pro scene. Burned out, never got contacted by any org. Its hard, really fucking hard.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:16:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Graphic design. Just because you have Photoshop does not mean you have the eye for design.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:35:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Psychotherapy.
Yes, you can give friends a shoulder to cry on and advice when they need it, but it's very different when you need to maintain a compassionate indifference to a complete stranger.
I've interviewed twenty "senior programmers" who can't write code to save their life. They can't answer basic questions about the language they claim to be experts in.
I interviewed a woman who was a professional programmer in "C" and a dozen other languages. The interview kept spiraling down and down to where I asked, "Write 'Hello World'" in 'C' and she couldn't do it. I then said, write it in any language. Again couldn't do it. I asked her why she has these languages on her resume, she said, "I have HEARD of them."
Slightly off topic, but I've run into this a lot and it made me think of it. People who are highly trained and proficient in one thing (think a lawyer or a doctor) who think they must be good at everything then. I brought up lawyers and doctors, because typically they are very good at law or at medicine, but often lack sound business sense.
So while you may be a great lawyer or highly skilled surgeon, typically you'll be better off if you find someone who is similarly skilled in finance and business manage that side of the business for you. Which lets you focus on your great skill, and continue to produce money.
TL;DR - You might be an expert at ONE thing, but that doesn't make you an expert at ALL things.
Game designer. People understand the skills needed to make art and write code, but somehow think they can imagine a coherent and engaging game experience with a sentence or two. Liking movies doesn't turn you into JJ Abrams either.
doing this as college major, learning jack of all parts, I know I'm only meh at some parts and have not even learned others, but you are so fucking right
Have been doing this a VERY long time, it's a great career and you learn new things all the time, because we really are the jack of all parts, and master of fitting them all together. Enjoy!
Mr_Rotch ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:54:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do Let's Plays on youtube and get insanely popular. You think it'd be kind of a cake-walk. Just have to play games and talk, but nope. When you start to do it and play a game, and then realize you have absolutely nothing to talk about and just focus on playing.
I was mid masters in Wings of Liberty(original starcraft 2 when it came out, and if you dont know starcraft Masters was the top 2% of the ranked population) I ended up playing against a low level pro and promptly lost 0-2 in a Bo3
Photography. I constantly get asked what kind of camera in have or recommend. I'm nice and give them suggestions. A month or so later they always ask why their photos dobt look as good as the ones I took for them.
Uhh maybe cause I've had years of experience, training, trial and error. Photography isn't about pressing a button. It boggles the mind at hiw many people don't know this.
Painting/Spackle work, everyone thinks they know how and it usually comes out like doodoo...
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:12:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fighting. Your four bar fights does not make you Roy Jones. And your kickboxing class doesn't make you Anderson Silva either. True talent takes years of dedication to cultivate.
build a website. Seriously businesses - it's your online presence. Can't tell you how many shitty pre-made theme websites I come across that look terrible and are glitchy as f&*k.
I was a cook for 15 years and have never seen so many people call themselves "chefs" who have never worked a day in their life in a real restaurant.
The vast majority of cooking jobs are blue collar, physically draining jobs. Insane hours, almost no breaks, and extreme physical and mental stress. When my non-cook friends would complain about their days, I would show them my burns, cuts, and bruises and of course my outrageously small paycheck.
In my opinion, there has never been a reality TV show that even comes close to working in an American restaurant (and I'm talking here about the 95% that aren't fine dining). You never see people sweating through their clothes, running around like maniacs, screaming in Spanglish at each other, and then passing out in their cars after a 16 hour shift only to drag their asses back in the next morning and do it all over again.
Lots of people can cook, sure. But "being" a cook is a totally different story.
sjleader ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:25:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Recording Studio owner/producer/engineer here: Recording and mixing music. Garage band is great, recording at home is great, but don't release it as "professional."
zwart27 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:26:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Livestream games, if you go on twitch and choose a popular game you will see an endless stream of 1/0 viewer streams.
Design video games. Having been in the industry for over 15 years, I cannot tell you how many people assume that you can just smoke a fat blunt and come up with some amazing game ideas. I WILL BE A GAMING GENIUS! It's a lot of hard work from a team of people, with very few exceptions.
In truth, the story ideas I hear from wannabe game designers are awful half-realized bits of tripe that they think will impress their friends. "OMG my friends and I would TOTALLY play that game!" is a phrase I hear all the time.
A well designed game is best defined as an elegantly connected set of systems combined with stellar usability, which is then tied to a compelling story. Trust me, if the systems (everything from weapons or user controlled items, physics, game balance, game economy, and a ton of other systems) and usability (controls, menu systems, etc) suck, it doesn't matter how good the story is.
It took years of training to finish design jobs in the time and quality necessary. But no, it's not worth the money and someones cousin does it for free once you show drafts.
Fuck that.
Became an engineer and nobody doubts my skills now. Took a similar time to get on track for the job.
Fuck design, and especially clients in that field.
Drive/Race cars. You may think you're hot shit, but until you get into a vehicle being manipulated by someone who has the skills to wring one out, you realize you know how to drive for shit. Professional drivers are fucking impressive.
zhalo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:37:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My husband used to rally race. Just the difference in his driving behavior on regular roads shows me this is true. I got into the passenger side with him driving once at an actual race track. Once. He had to stop three quarters of the way round. Like I said, once.
Rescuing/taming horses.
Yes, I know you read the Heartland books as a kid and you go to the races but you just can't tame and train a rescued/wild/abused horse. EVEN if it's a baby one or it's small so "can't hurt me".
I had a completely unhandled, feral two year old horse over the summer, I had to put signs up saying he was dangerous because I was constantly stopping people from trying to get in the field or feed him or try and grab his halter. They were all convinced that he wouldn't hurt them and if they whistled and waved their hands or tried to pat him it would be fine and he'd magically become tame to people because they were a horse whisperer or some bull.
As it happens, he has since turned out to be a very sweet, friendly pony, but it took me over 6 months to be able to touch him regularly and lead him around.
The poor bugger had been left feral til he was two, when he was cornered, roped down and castrated and he came to me very soon afterwards. He was terrified of humans so every time some moron tried to "help" the progress went back a week.
I told so many people, but no one seemed to understand that it's not like the movies, it takes months, and patience, and a lot of expertise and experience.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:22:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography. Seriously. Everyone and heir mother is a photographer.
Most women don't cut their own hair. Don't wax their own legs, arms eyebrows, etc. coloring your own hair is hard. Lots of women do it anyway and it looks like shit and lasts about 2 weeks. Just cause you can physically do it doesn't mean you can do it correctly. There's a reason it requires a license and a lot of training to get that.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:23:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fighting. It bothers the shit out of me when I'm watching boxing, MMA, or any other fighting sport and some dipshit is saying "I'd crack him in the mouth!"
Yeah, sport, it's that fucking simple. The years and years of time and effort and focus that these men and women dedicate towards footwork, head movement, etc. will just be completely shattered when you implement your novel plan of "swinging on them."
It's that fucking simple, fat, drunk slob at the bar. Go in there and show 'em how it's done.
Engineering and designing things. Yes, there is crappy design. But the majority of the reason things are the way they are is because they had the same dumb idea as you, tried it, it didn't work, so they moved on to the next idea.
amr0th ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:27:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Physician, save everyone all the time, until you face the realities of the health care system, the patients, your peers etc, etc.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:32:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Game development. You see it all the time these days because its easy to get cheap laughs ripping on a bad game. "They must have spent a whole 10 minutes on this! I could do better, get it together devs!". It's not easy. At all.
As a developer of terrible games I can assure you that even the worst piece of shit little game you ever played probably took at least 10 hours of coding, artwork, debugging, and testing. Hell, even the shit people rip on, while not good, isn't really that bad. They're usually like Ed Wood level, which puts them significantly ahead of the thousands of Star Wars Holiday Special level bad games out there, and the millions that are even worse than that.
If I had a youtube channel, it'd be about taking games that people rip on and pointing out what makes them interesting, the stuff that worked in a sea of didn't-work.
deltios ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:25:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can confirm. Making a game with a bunch of people myself right now, we're doing our best to make it a proper project from the get-go, but it certainly ain't easy.
Photographer. Just because your iPhone 6 takes a nice photo, or you have a dslr and know a bit about photoshop, does not mean you're good enough to go pro.
Photography. Everyone gets a DSLR and starts trying to cover weddings, then ends up getting sued because they suck and never learned the first thing about exposure, f stop, lighting or anything else.
suzepie ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:17:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write. I do it professionally -- marketing materials, product descriptions, websites, tech help, user guides, UI, you name it. The shit I have to clean up -- after the CEO (or whoever) took their "stab at it" -- is unfathomably bad. Knowing how to use words and how to type does not make you a writer. Leave it to the professionals when you've got a professional job to produce, please.
Is it "do" or "does" after "knowing ... ". You're talking about two actions, so shouldn't the verb be plural?
suzepie ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:38:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Knowing ... does not make you ..." If you remove the details, you see that the verb in that sentence is "knowing," and thus "does" is the correct choice.
95accord ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:44:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Dry walling and crack filling (and I'm not talking about your moms crack - that's easy)
GunDoc ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:46:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My job as a weatherman when they don't like my forecast.
Professional sports. You have no idea how many "country boys" or farmhands think they could, and I quote, "Stop JJ Watt dead in his tracks." Like, what? You're 250 lb I'll give you that but a professional football player is literally paid to beat the shit out of people.
House painting.
Worked a couple summers for my uncle as a professional painter, and I'd say 60% of the inside work we did was covering up and refinishing the homeowner's half assed attempts at painting a wall.
Even beyond that though, everybody and their cousins-uncles-wifes-brother seems to think a white van, two shitty ladders, and a paint sprayer qualifies them.
Just look around your baseboard, or where the ceiling meets the wall, and chances are you will see paint where it shouldn't be (ceiling/floor)
Full disclosure: I was fired by my own uncle for f-ing up a job so badly that the homeowner refused to pay.
GbyeGirl ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:09:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Handle firearms.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:16:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Work from home. You think it would be amazing but it's hard work. You have to be able to work in your home environment without getting distracted. You have to be able to make and stick to your own schedule while resisting the temptation to just watch Netflix all day. Not everyone can do it. I've seen more people fail than succeed.
Not everyone, but I'm amazed that some parents think they can educating their children in an array of subject in their house better than a group of trained professionals with subject area expertise.
After running several all-ages music venues... music. There are a lot lot lot of wannabes who would get more out of it if they just tried to have fun and make art instead of lying to themselves that they can "make it"
moshi24 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:42:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
let's plays
moshi24 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:42:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Haven't looked very hard, but has anyone mentioned photography? I feel like everyone and their dog can go out and buy a $1500 camera and all of a sudden they're a photographer...no, you bought a camera way above your needs and now take random pictures of shit
If that. Often seems like it's a entry level camera with kit lens and they're "natural light" photographers who don't even know enough to know what a reflector does.
ITT: Things that most people don't believe they can do professionally.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:00:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cut their own hair/kid's hair. Bangs are whatever, go ahead cut your own bangs. But yes I can tell you totally did this all by yourself. I see a weight line, choppiness, no blending, bad angles, uneven layers, and don't even get me started on slopping box after box of level 1 black on your hair and now you want ME to get it out magically without frying your already fried hair. Or, me being polite that your hair looks like crap and you proudly say I colored it myself. Oooh, now I get it.
Go ahead though and put a guard on those clippers and cut your man's hair. If you mess that up....well you're on your own. Clipper cuts are easy unless it's a zero fade or more than a few guards' distance.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:04:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In all seriousness though, it's your head do what you want. Just don't think it's easy. Don't even get me started on all the useless crap I had to learn to get state licensed. My cosmetology book has chemistry, electricity, anatomy (why?) Sections. I don't need to know your arm muscle names to wax it. Or how a circuit works to know I gotta push the button on my hairdryer every now and then.
asdialed ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:37:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You're the kind of person I want to do my hair. Not the lady who grabbed my hair, cut the bangs straight across and called it a day.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:46:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know that there are many many terrible hairdressers in the world, but I made an oath to do no hair harm!
Actually, I have a personal oath that I well never intentionally f-up someone's hair no matter how rude or terrible they are to me.
Write a novel. I'm getting good at writing it the publishing industry is another thing entirely. In one of John Gardner's books on writing, his advice is to either get a low key job that doesn't take up much time or to have a spouse support you financial so you can be a writer as a career. It just isn't financially feasible.
Teaching. Just because you went to school as a kid doesn't mean you're qualified and you know what it takes. There's a lot of "behind the scenes" work.
Writing. Of any kind, but I'll talk about fiction novels specifically. Everyone who has an idea thinks they can write a great novel, if only they can find the time. But in writing, ideas are nothing. It's all about executing the ideas, and that can be tough. It takes years of practice, you need to know what makes good writing, and you need to break any bad habits you might have. Even once you get good, writing still takes a lot of planning and work. Now say you've finally written something good. Getting published isn't easy.
edditme ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:04:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Bang OP's mom. On the other hand, OP's mom is already a professional.
Jake2601 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:08:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography. If you own a decent camera and have a Photography Facebook page, that doesn't make you a photographer.
edditme ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:16:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Give medical advice (because they heard something from Oprah, Dr. Oz, Dr. Phil, their neighbour, or some random homeless person hanging around outside the clinic) or set medical policy (i.e. anti-vaxxers). I'm sorry, but if my 7+ years of dedicated medical training aren't up to your standards, why exactly do you keep coming back to see me to figure out your health problems?
It's like dealing with a backseat driver, but much more annoying and dangerous. I don't get paid enough to deal with that shit.
I've got an expensive camera and an iPad I can be a photographer
Sledjoys ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:04:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This thread is pretty informative. Not only have I learned a lot about what it takes to do just about anything, it also makes me wonder if I'm as good at the things I think I am.
mushbo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:27:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cook, it's not the same as at home people. We can take a cheap cut of meat and make it into the best you ever had. At home you will pay out the ass for a good cut and probably cook it wrong.
Beezor70 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:35:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not me, but my brother. He is an avid tennis watcher and he is pretty good at table tennis. Me and my close friend took up playing couple years ago and last week my brother came to watch us and after some time he made fun of us and yelled how we sucked. We invited him for a game next day. You should have seen how frustrated he was.
Tennis is much much harder then it looks man.
Be a chef. I swear every little shit that made a cupcake at home and watched the food network thinks they can do it now. 80% national dropout rate from culinary school. Of the remaining 20% a miniscule amount remain 2 years after.
bs13690 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:54:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Tech Support. Some customers seem to think all I do is look things up on Google. While Google is a good reference tool, there's more to it than just looking up an error and finding a fix. You have to understand how the fix will affect the system, how to identify the "correct" fix, etc. An issue can also be so vague that you'll find tons of fixes.
Google is no different than a Chilton manual. It's a reference tool but won't tell you everything.
Be a secretary. My dads secretary of 15 Years busted her ass day in and day out to make him look good. She made it look so easy the office just about imploded when she retired.
anomalyk ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:16:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Based on the amount of "I'm thinking of going back to be a nurse, maybe as like a retirement job or something" quips I hear on a fairly regular basis, I'm going to say nursing. True I'm biased since I am one, but I hear irritating shit like this on the weekly
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:19:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, I know you took Psych 101. However, not everyone had OCD, Bipolar Disorder or Borderline Personality Disorder
zougie ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:34:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've come to learn that almost everyone on a college campus thinks they can mix drinks really well for some reason...then they give me something that either tastes like gasoline or a gangbang of fruits all blended together and then marinated in sugar water. There is no in-between.
Theres a lot of responses already that have to do with different creative fields but I would like to add: making good paintings/ art. Now I know art is subjective but I do acrylic abstracts which typically sell pretty quickly and are popular amongst the "I want some art to put over my couch" crowds. I have had friends who have made their own "art" to hang in their houses just to fill space and mostly to save money and most of the time it's shit. Yes you can go to the store and buy canvas and then dump some paint on it but if you don't have at least a bit of raw talent and some understand of the way colors work you will just end up with a chaotic muddy mess which does not look good above your couch!
Saeta44 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:21:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have been told that my Bachelor's in Psych and Master's in Social Work are "pointless" because they're "soft sciences" (this is true, but I never claimed to be able to do brain surgery) and that "everyone can work with [the mentally ill]."
I'm nearly four years into working at a residential treatment facility. This is a fairly open workplace, hiring wise, but I would never in my life argue that this is a job everyone can do. Family therapy, my next big step up, even less so.
I work in group homes. Just about everyone can do the basic tasks but very few people are actually good at working with this population (people with some form of cognitive disability and mental illness). Unfortunately the pay is so low that anyone who is any good at the job moves on to better things. You need a real handle on your own emotions as well as a lot of empathy and an understanding of what is going on in the minds of clients. Lot's of people either burn out because they can't handle the emotional stress or become indifferent and unhelpful because they don't understand what is going on in the clients' minds.
Sports. Statistically speaking even if you make it onto a college football team you've got about a 1% chance of getting drafter or signed by an NFL team. Same with basketball. Even lower with baseball because of the farm system
Chances would be higher because of MLB farm system. More teams at various levels increase the chance of a "professional" career because they consider minor leagues pros, even though it's not the big leagues.
Teach, especially teaching early childhood. Yes, dealing with kindergarten content is not difficult- we all (hopefully) know our ABC's, shapes, colors, and numbers to 100.
What no one is prepared for is the toll it takes on your mind and body. Constantly having to be 'on' for 8 hours at a time can make your brain feel like it's on fire. Not being able to sit down for hours at a time, no matter how your back or your knees are aching. And if you do have a second to sit, it's in a chair meant for someone half your size (and this is coming from a petite woman). Having to switch between two different versions of yourself five days a week and trying to keep those two people separate (not to mention praying that none of the parents ever find out about anything you do in your personal life for fear it might offend them). Having to deal with administration, which can be pleasant if your lucky, but often isn't. Having to know what Johnny is doing while talking to Bobby and Suzie and defusing a situation between Timmy and Jane, simultaneously. And then taking everything home with you at the end of the day to do another few hours of work to make sure you're giving your students the best education possible.
I love it, but it is not a job cut out for everyone, and not as easy as people think.
Photography is the only thing which one can only do if he is experienced !!! but every one thinks he can do it.
foolsdie ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:59:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a C level executive at a company.
benno- ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 13:44:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Rap and Hip Hop in general.
The recent resurgence from big names like Kendrick and J Cole inspired a lot of people to begin writing. People seem to miss that rapping isn't just about being able to rhyme words.
However I don't really think its that bad a thing, if people think back to 06(?), Nas released an album called Hip Hop is Dead, and it became apparent that there weren't gonna be any generational talents for a while, but K. and Cole popped up sooner than expected so it's for the best. They kinda saved hip hop in 2010's
iammas13 ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 15:50:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What are you talking about? Hip hop was never close to dead. Throughout the entire 2000's it was one of the most popular genres and it was never struggling. Jay Z, lil wayne, kanye, 50 cent, Outkast, Common, Eminem, and im sure theres much more that I can't think of off the top of my head. Kendrick is absolutely amazing and Cole is pretty good too, but they didnt "save hip hop" or anything like that.
There was a lot of talent in the early 00's, but it was mostly turning out shit we'd forget in a few years. Hip-hop was on he radio was pretty boring then. By the mid 00's some interesting people popped up.
M it for all intents and purposes, it seemed like it was going no place for a couple years.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 15:57:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'll forward by saying the only rap i listen to is Eminem Spose Mackelmore and Watsky for the most part, but kanye is shit, only sings about stupid shit, and is an insult to humanity by being such a self-centered fuck, but the rest of your comment stands
It was pretty dead for a few years there when Trap music and Wangster were pushing the charts. It's why Nas made "Hip Hop is Dead" and caused a semi resurgence. Most of us 90's hip hop heads went underground or diversified our focus in to other genres. So in conclusion, Thank you Nas.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:21:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's like everyone doesn't realize MF DOOM has been with us all along.
and it is a diminishing skill over time. Hadn't played cards in like 5 years and tried to do a fancy shuffle from 10 years ago to impress a girl. Yeah, that was a fun game of 52 Pickup.
aezart ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:15:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can confirm. I feel like I'm the only one in my circle of friends who knows how to properly shuffle. It's especially apparent when we're playing Netrunner or Magic because I'm the one who doesn't wind up with half the cards upside down.
I was trying to learn to be a magician briefly, so that probably helps.
PD is often a fail into job for many in the armed services. I know of 3 people personally who washed out of the military and are now officers with the local PD's. All were textbook bullies and narsacists growing up.
Be a lawyer. No, you won't make a good lawyer just because you "like to argue." So stop telling me that you should go to law school just because you like being an asshole to your friends and family.
Modeling. Ugh. I used to model as a side job and hobby (mostly promo), and I had so many super awkward situations where a female acquaintance would approach me saying they were "ready to get into it too". Then they'd stalk my Facebook and wrote every photographer I worked with. Afterwords they would write me asking why the photographers quoted them a fee and asking what I paid. Sigh. There's no easy way to tell people that photographers only charge you if it doesn't improve their portfolio or they don't want to work with you or you AREN'T MODEL MATERIAL.
Kinda. I'm just bitter because all my friends get to sound smart talking about computer science and medicine while I'm getting a film degree and nobody gives a shit when I try to explain what makes a good movie.
By the way, if you're interested in getting a film degree, quick bit of advice: DON'T DO IT. DO NOT DO IT. DON'T. EVER. It's easily one of the worst decisions I've ever made.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:33:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It sounds like you just made a poor choice. I'm also getting a Film degree and I can say that I love every minute of it, even if it is reading less then enjoyable articles.
I would suggest talking with an academic advisor or something to see if you can change your degree. I switched into Film and regret NOTHING!
Do accounting, payroll and/or bookkeeping for a business. So many small business owners think that if they go buy that popular off the shelf software, stick it on their computer and Mrs. Business-Owner can balance the cheque book that she can keep the books.
First of all, the ads that say "one click and you're done" and show someone with their feet up on their desk "doing their bookkeeping" they are seriously misleading the public. It takes hours of training annually to know how to use this software properly, and keep certifications.
If bookkeeping and accounting were easy there wouldn't be 2 year college associate degree and 3-4 year bachelor degree programs.
Biologist here. Every damn time vaccines, cancer, GMOs, 'organic foods', stem cells, medical marijuana, recreational marijuana, aliens, and CSI come up on reddit everyone is a scientist and answers are clearly obvious... No.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:33:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a college chemistry professor (PhD) and work closely the students interested in medical, dental, pharmacy, veterinary school...
Yeah. Most people aren't capable of that. Everyone can get a college degree provided they don't have a severe cognitive disability and the funds to do so. In fact, most people can also find some sort of shitty graduate school to take them even with a 2.8 GPA so most people can even get at least a master's degree.
Getting the GPA requirement, the volunteering, the shadowing, the leadership, and the standardized test scores to even get an interview at a school is NOT something everyone can do. I get students who can barely string together a sentence who want to be a doctor. I have students who can't use a calculator to basic arithmetic who want to be pharmacists. It would be funny if it weren't so fucking sad.
Be a nutritionist/dietician. Redditors seem to beg unflinchingly confident they are consummate experts on exactly what others could/should be doing to get in shape, and that because something works for them it surely must work for everyone else, too.
not really pertaining to everyone, but in the IT industry every wannabe things they can code.
No, you really cannot. Stay the hell out of the code base, do not come even near!
More common Everyone seems to think they know everything when it comes to "computers". Just because you can use the latest Windows, does not mean you know sh** about datacenter networks or server maintenance.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:42:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
azog1337 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:18:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Microsoft Excel, most people think that they're professionals if they know a few basic tools, but in reality most know less than 1 % of what excel is capable of.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:58:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Work on cars. People think they can just take the head gasket off and rebolt the head back on and go about their day. So many times I've had to take apart everything and start from scratch because "they dont know why it stopped working" just to find out they forgot x y or z in the steps
So many people with literally no exposure to what goes into it think they can make better decisions, trades, etc. than people who have been doing it their entire adult life.
Everyone seems to think they'd be the perfect bar owner. But I do book keeping for a living and let me tell you, the second you start questioning people about finances their bar owning dream pretty much sinks.
cd_b ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:29:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Massage. The number of shitty massages I've received that either hurt or go to the other extreme and just tickle is just silly. Apparently I'm quite good at it though, that's what my partner says, hahah. Maybe it's a case of never saying it's a bad blowjob or you'll never get any more - people have only ever had positive feedback about their massaging "skills".
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:37:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Management. A lot of people think they could be great managers but few actually have the ability to manage others and be natural leaders. Which is why you see so many inept managers and micro managers
Baseball. Everyone who doesn't like/watch it says it's easy because all you do is hit a ball with a stick. Hitting a 90+ MPH fastball is one of the hardest things to do in sports.
Coach a sport. Usually one of the popular ones. Unless you have kids, then you automatically become a professional coach at whatever sport your kid does as well.
After seeing some of the renovations people have done themselves in places I've lived, I'd have to say plumbing, electrical, finishing and carpentry work
Sing...most 20 year olds think it's just a matter of doing the verse in a soft breathy way and then belting out the chorus at the top of their lungs. The really great singers did neither of these things. It's all about finding that sweet spot around 50-70% of the volume you are capable of and only going outside of that when the material really demands it. I've also noticed a lot of modern singers sound like they become bored and less connected emotionally to the words by the last minute of the song. These tv shows where singers only do a 90 second snippet of the song make it worse.
Play any professional sport better than the guy on TV.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:00:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
tslc144 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:11:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just out of curiosity , what would you consider being able to play the piano?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:34:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
tslc144 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:47:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That certainly seems like an interesting view on the subject do you play piano yourself and/or another instrument?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:11:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
tslc144 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:47:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No I understand you completely I'm learning piano currently and while no maestro yet I believe that those who only play chords are missing a massive fundamental sections of playing the instrument
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:00:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Internet tech support. Being on the phone with people who can't tell their right from their left, saying "Silly you, my computer's already started!" when asked to click the Start menu, asking "is your display all black?" And get:"It's your job to know that kind of things! Are you incompetent? Transfer me to your supervisor!". 10 hours a day. How much time do you really think you could do this? For me, it's been 10 years and I fell apart. It's so hard mentally to never have your work recognized, supervisors dont give a shit as long as you don't have too many complaints, until one day the management decides it's time for a rehaul and blames everybody to not work enough and threatens everybody to work faster, take more calls a day, but make sure our customers are happy! What a shitty job. Even if the pay is really good, I'd never do it again. It just broke me.
Work on their own cars. As a professional automotive technician I see all sorts of fuck ups that people bring to me that they thought they could do just because they saw some YouTube video of it.
pkvh ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:07:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Become a Chef. People think that just because they can make a great roast they can go run and work in a kitchen. Yea okay aunt Sally I am sure you will be fine with the 60 hour+ work week and all of the other responsibilities you will have to handle.
Screenwriting I guess. Lot of redditors act like writing movies and TV is easy because they can write meaningless quippy banter like Whedon, when it's harder and more impressive to be more subtle and write like David chase
Work for a nonprofit. Just because it's a nonprofit doesn't mean it's a soft, cozy environment where anyone who cares about an issue deserves a job. I'm a talented, skilled professional, not some tree hugging bleeding heart.
geomod ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:20:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sports. There's a mentality on a lot of Reddit of "oh ho ho ho put the sportsball in the hole more than the other team and you win the sports and get paid all the cash!" But NAH there's so much that goes into any sport. The wild advanced statistics, the strategy, the physical and mental demands, the list goes on and on. There are certainly athletes who have gotten into professional sports thanks to being physical freaks of nature, but the vast majority are there from obscene hours of work and dedication to their craft.
BakoMack ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:22:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Accounting. People thought that they can simply do their own bookkeeping, until they realized that they actually making losses (even though their book says they are making profit)
Electrical work. I'm an electrician and see some messed up stuff on a weekly basis. If you dont know what you're doing in the slightest, please just call a sparky, it's better than starting a house fire.
Pidermis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:37:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So many people think they can be psychotherapists just by acting smart and empathetic. You can do a lot of harm if you don't know what you're doing. It's not like the 6+ years of education and state licensing processes exist for no reason!
Cooking. When everyone is with their friends and food is to be made, everyone claims that they're the best chef there and everyone criticizes the person who is actually doing the cooking.
Do drugs and alcohol counseling . It seems like everyone that kicks the habit thinks they can be a counselor. This really damages clients. You need to have more education and tools to offer people that "what worked for me".
Rapping. So many amateurs waste their time thinking they have what it takes to make it big when in reality they don't have the great lyrics or the flow. I think the flow is the most important part and sometimes its just something you are born with, well having a good sense of rhythm.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:47:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Work email. I work for a very large company and about a month ago somebody accidentally sent an email to seemingly the entire company. Over the next two days HUNDREDS of idiots replied back TO ALL saying "I don't think I'm supposed to be apart of this." Nearly as many also replied TO ALL saying "Please stop replying to all."
It was outrageous. I'm assuming it was a test to weed out the idiots in the company. As it turns out, it's more than a few handfuls.
Drive. We all think we're good drivers. But we all fudge on the speed limit. We eat and drink at the wheel. We play the radio too loud. We allow passengers to distract us. We daydream. I'm as guilty as the next guy. Very, very few of could qualify as professional drivers.
LowB0b ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:51:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Pretty much everything? As I've become a software dev, and my friends have become lawyers, accountants, whatever, you really quickly realize how much shit you don't know... Like sure you might know a bit of the law, or a bit of economics, but no way you know enough of it to actually make people pay for your services.
Being a professional requires at least some basic formation
That shit is not fun, hard as fuck, and insanely complicated. I can handle a firearm competently and I might be handy in a fight, but that's still like saying I know how to spell cat so I can be a poet.
Smokeya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:53:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Paint both buildings and art pieces, plow snow on a large scale, and be a first responder (fire fighter or medical).
Have done all of those and everyone and their mom thinks they cant do or handle the jobs with ease. I dont know many people who can cut in a line painting houses without tape and have it straight and many people who do it artistically while they certainly can make something couldnt do it professionally at all.
Snow plowing even if your just doing driveways takes much more than it appears to most people also. Say you have 40 contracts for a season and go out every 4 inches, one day you get 4 inches everything is smooth and fast for the most part, next day you get 2 feet, it takes longer and most people dont seem to understand why it takes longer with differing amounts of snow. They dont understand that vehicles require maintenance regularly, everyone always wants to be first on the list, no one realizes somedays i literally wouldnt leave the tractor for 24+ hours(get done with a route snow coming down so bad have to restart at the begining over and over) except to take a leak or fuel up/refill drinks(usually coffee) and snacks once and a while. Its far harder than it looks and i dont think many people could handle it.
First responder was a rough one though, hard physical labor, deal with all kinds of emotional things as you do see death and sometimes its gruesome, you train basically non stop no matter if you been doing it for your whole life or only a year. Meetings all the time for the station i was on to raise money to keep things going smoothly and do events which people seem to expect local fire departments to do, also again you have equipment maintenance, truck check, filling airpacks, making sure all your stuff is in the right order so you can spend 30 seconds jumping into a 100lbs of clothing and into a truck to get to a emergency in minutes at any hour of the day (i was volunteer department in small town middle of nowhere may differ with big city departments but likely not by much).
I currently manage properties and I had someone recently complain because the plow was being dropped a lot at like 6 am and it was too loud. And the guy actually said, "If I can do a driveway in 30 minutes, I don't understand why this is taking so long." So now, I'm trying to explain to a guy how moving a plow that's attached to a vehicle around blind corners and plowing parking spaces without hitting cars and yeah they're on a hill and there's the fact that more cars are coming in and out and also they can only put the snow like three places on the property and basically, I'm trying to say--do NOT piss off my plow driver, because if he decides he doesn't want to plow this property anymore, we will all die.
Smokeya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:16:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I used to try and be careful not to wake people, but i also sometimes would be out all hours of the night to keep ahead of the snow and stop people from bitching about their driveway not being done before they had to go to work, or before the county plows came threw, or just because people like to bitch apparently. Not shitting would literally live in the tractor or truck i was using at times and go days without sleep, after a while with no sleep your patients for the bullshit grows real thin. My favorite time to go out when it was optional was middle of the night like 3-4am though. Everyones sleeping and youd be done with driveways before anyone would wake up and come outside. People always trying to move their cars while your halfway done with the driveway, then want you to clean up where the car was parked but also want you to take the snow that was on their car that they brushed off as well, adding more and more time to your already long route. Loved the job but at times just wanted to smack some sense into people as they just assume i guess that they are your only customer and your at their mercy or something.
My favorite thing was when people who paid by the season would want a refund because it didnt snow much. My response was always well if it snows a ton next year you gonna pay double/triple (depending on snow amount basically)? Where i live and where i did this some years we get literally 6-8 feet high snow in a good year (sometimes far more even but its kinda rare, my first year here we had almost 12 feet, couldnt see around corners to turn was crazy), but we also have years like this current one where there is almost no snow at all, maybe 2 feet if you find the right spot to measure it.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:53:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that I could win an Oscar for acting, and I also have absolutely no acting experience.
I never even dived playing soccer in high school.
Resinmy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:53:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Therapy
You find out that there's a lot more than just sitting and talking to people
Lavar ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:55:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Paint their houses. Listen, if you actually knew anything about painting, you would be able to see just how horrendous your house looks. "Look! I painted my living room! Isn't it great?" "Yea maybe if you didn't hit the ceiling 5 times or have sausage lines running down your walls and weak spots all over the damn place. Gah!"
Seriously I have seen 2 people do amazing things with chalk paint. It's still blasphemy they are covering up the amazing antique. But they at least did a decent job. For the 100 others locally, go fuck yourself and stop ruining things
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:06:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Make a survey. People always want to write a survey having no idea how to put questions and answer choices together to be able to make any sense out of people's responses. I get people all the time asking me to figure their shit out and I have to tell them to scrap everything and start all over.
While not everyone thinks they can do it professionally, everyone seems to have an opinion on how easy it is to be a pilot.
"Oh the planes just land themselves, right? You must have it so easy, you just sit there all day."
First off, I'm not that kind of pilot yet. The autopilot I work with shuts off at 600 feet above the ground, making landing a bit tricky.
Secondly, the guys who DO do that kind of flying aren't just sitting in the cockpit. They monitor the whole situation. It would be like going to your doctor and saying "It must be SOOO easy to be a doctor, because my body has an immune system and doesn't need you every day." Yes, but when your appendix explodes or you have hard-to-spot symptoms of something serious, professionals are worth a hundred times their salary.
Ennion ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:13:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hockey skating. Watching hockey makes you immerse in the movement mentally.
Lace up a pair of hockey skates and jump out on the ice. It's maddening how hard it is just to stay on your feet let alone move like hockey players do, it's amazing.
To everyone who thinks being a therapist would be super easy because "all you do is listen to people": It may seem that way, but there's way more to it. I may not be a therapist yet but I have my MA in Counseling and I've done my practicum and internship work.
Think you can "just listen to people" pour out all their often tragic stories and not say the wrong thing and not be emotionally affected?
Everything. People see something done by professionals, professionals who make what they do look easy because they've done it for so long, and assume because the professional makes it look easy that they can do it too.
See it all the time, every day... and the same noobs who have NO idea how to do something wind up getting hired to do what they don't know how to do. Sometimes that works out... rarely.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:22:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
ITT: any job that takes training and practice to do.
The gist of this thread seems to be anything that you do for a living can not be done by everyone.
Sanhael ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:30:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most things can't be done by "everyone" without the relevant training and experience, possibly some talent or otherwise natural ability in some cases.
I feel like that point is lost on people a lot nowadays. If patients didn't need to be put under for major surgery, they'd be telling the surgeon that they were cutting the wrong thing.
Brewing beer - professional craft beer that tastes good, that is. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a brewery these days, but many feel like homebrewers who just got a loan and unfortunately aren't putting out a quality product that was worth opening a business for.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:26:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write instructions, explaining to others how to do something. It
Aiku ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:26:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone with a few beers in them thinks they can play drums: how hard can it be?
Being a Youtube beauty guru, especially when you consider that most of the successful ones have channels that are really more like 25% makeup and 75% lifestyle. You have to be able to create your own personal brand; show an aspirational lifestyle, but still come off as "accessible" to your viewers. (I could go on all day. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes that a lot of people don't consider.) And besides all that, makeup is tougher than it looks!
It's not as simple as giving your best friend an advice to "take it easy". Just imagine yourself hearing dozens of stressed, depressed, completely mad people a day for a living.
Jdrawer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:33:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teach English.
Every day, I wonder if I should switch from a STEM major to an English major, because it's really something I do care about, and I've been told I'd be a great English teacher.
But I don't think I could put up with the little sh*ts.
Web development. There's no real barrier to entry. You can work as a developer insofar as you're able to convince people you know what you're doing. Beyond the visual design it won't be immediately obvious to the client when you've done something poorly. Years later when they get hacked, or the site breaks, or their search ranking sucks, or they need a new developer to add a feature and it takes 5x as long as it should because everything is held together with duct tape... that's when they figure out they got screwed. Nearly all of my work from the rare times I freelance is fixing and redoing the work of shitty developers.
A lot of folks come in having done some coding in high school or taken some For Profit Tech classes and think they can write scalable, reliable, performant, maintainable applications on the basis of that knowledge alone.
Writing a little contact manager that can hold your 10 friends' phone numbers is very different from writing video streaming or systems for HBO or Netflix or real time princing or trading programs for finance.
This isn't earth shattering but manicures. Yes anyone can paint their own nails but you will get a manicure from a professional that looks tidy and well done. When you do it yourself it is just polishing your nails.
1SensFan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:47:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Anything, really. If you're not trained to do something, you're not going to do it as well as someone who does it professionally. Unless something is your profession, you don't do it at a professional level, by definition.
The number of dinner parties I've been to were the host is a bloody awful cook yet is talked up by everyone to be professional standard chef is incredible.
No, that isn't Thai steamed rice, it's just been overcooked so it's a big lump etc...
fami28 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:58:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Whether itโs self taught or through University or college, a true graphic designer should be able to navigate through their tools (whatever they maybe) with ease and grace and not rely on cheap and overused filters and effects to create their work.
andersmb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:01:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Plan events. On the surface it seems easy and everyone thinks they can do it because hey I threw my friend a bachelorette party. Yeah, when doing it professionally, there are a million details involved that most people who aren't experienced wouldn't even think of.
Diagnose themselves, medically. Can't tell you how many patients I have that come in thinking they have cancer because they read online that "headaches are sometimes symptoms of cancer."
Political science. And by that in this instance I am referring more to analysis than anything else as that's what most people think they can do. The truth is that its an extremely complicated field that is effected by almost every part of life. Too many people think they can look at an issue and within five minutes find "the right answer". The truth is there is no right answer, most every issue has a dozen other issues that it impacts or is impacted by as well as ten times that for groups of people. To really understand any of the major issues you have to do a LOT of research and even then your scope is likely so limited that you are completely missing many of the external influences previously mentioned. On top of all of that the political world is in a constant flux and impacted by innumerable factors of the world we live in which means that even if you come up with the perfect solution to a problem the next day may yield some change that wipes it all away or even worse, turns that solution back around on itself making the problem worse.
gyftoMD ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:04:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:05:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be the boss. "If x manager would just let me do y, it would be so much better." Not that this is never true, but x manager either has a bigger picture in mind or has corporate breathing down his neck or is trying to give in on this one issue to gain political capital for another issue. But in the eyes of the underlings he's just a prick.
i thought of myself as a fairly knowledgeable person, considering my lack of degrees and affection for television, but when i became friends with a real live grown up lawyer, he said that whenever we (the lay people) discuss a court case or a trial, it sounds to him like sarah palin sounds to the rest of us. that really shook me up, and now i hesitate to sound off on legal matters. it's just not my field.
Unless you win the networking lottery, you probably won't be getting paid to rap for a very long time. Over the past 6 years I've seen too many kids to count that have "gotten into the game" just to quit a couple months later because "everyone hates on my music".
Basically, anyone that starts making rap music with the intention of doing so professionally has already really hurt their chances at longevity. Same with any art. Get your reps in and have fun.
sbkerr29 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:15:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Head coach/GM of a pro sports team. Though I did win my fantasy football league this year so I probably could.
Sanwi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:18:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"I can represent myself."
No. You can't. You don't have the relationship with opposing counsel. You don't work with them every day. You are not aware of the judge's quirks or the local rules. You are too emotionally invested in the claim to think logically or strategically about outcomes. You cannot dispassionately weigh the pros and cons and God above help you when it comes to even considering responding to discovery requests.
Depends on what you are pouring. A lager or light ale, you'll want to start with a tilt, and slowly rotate straight. With a stout or cream ale, you'll want to put the glass flat on the tray, pour half, let it settle, pour the second half, let it settle some more, and serve.
The important thing is that you get good head. About an inch and a half of head with the smallest bubbles appropriate for the type of beer.
Some taps you need to work a bit to get good head. If the busboy dropped the keg, you're going to be pouring out a lot of foam. Sometimes the beer is flat, you'll need to use an up and down motion to get the head to build up.
Being a Youtuber, or to be more specific a Youtube gamer. Everyone thinks that all they do is sit in front of a webcam and scream fuck every ten seconds but really there would be a lot of man hours they put in for all the content they upload
Hair and makeup. It's super infuriating to see people claiming a title they didn't work for-Or cross contaminating every product while applying makeup to a client. A bunch of selfies is not a portfolio.
Super Smash Brothers. Melee specifically. A large amount of people that I've talked to about it see it as purely button mashing but in reality you practically have to be surgical with your movements.
xaminmo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:39:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Run a large corporation. Be responsible for 100,000 jobs, and have a family life.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:44:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write their biography.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:45:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
According to this website, be a lawyer. Everyone thinks they know how or why the law should or shouldn't be applied based upon the limit number of facts presented in an article or something else. Drives me crazy
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:49:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wait tables in such a way that everyone has everything that they need at all times, and there are never any delays of any sort, and all of your jokes are exactly what they'd like to hear or there are no jokes at all, and you will be delighted to get a compliment instead of a tip.... Even though tastes vary wildy, the seasoning is 'wrong' if it's not exactly the way they want it without having to tell you...
I haven't waited tables in over a decade, and I still have bad dreams about how hard it was and how many people felt it was their right to treat me like absolute shit.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:55:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Gaming, specifically youtube. Seems like now that money is in the equation everyone tries to get away with blatantly copying one another for subs and views.
Anything video related. Everyone seems to think a camera is all that's needed to shoot a film or music video
fiftieth ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:57:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Boxing. I'm an amateur boxer, and all the new guys that come to the gym come and think they can fight and go pro in a year or 2. Then they get whooped up and see that it's tough.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:57:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a comedian, imagine telling your jokes to a different demographic. Yep, that's what professionals have to deal with. The stress if their not funny to these guys and being booed off stage.
Shit is so hard. I'm in college and have no steady income. I design concepts for contractors trying to make the idea look as real as possible within my shitty ability and the people who scoff at me are drawing circles and stick figures on notebook paper.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:04:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
4740 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:06:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teach school. There's a reason half of teachers quit before their fifth year. Another consequence of this that you have large chunks of society thinking it's the easiest shit ever and dictating laws based on that misconception that fuck up everything.
1 million high school football players, I'm guessing many think they have a chance at the NFL, or at least college football. But with only 15,000 college players (1.5% chance), maybe 2,000 in the NFL? Thats a 0.2% chance that you could be playing football for a living. Numbers are even worse for professional basketball.
It becomes really obvious when you line up across someone who played the game professionally. The different plane of existence they have to be on not just physically, but mentally as well is astounding.
CWHats ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:10:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Teach English. Just because you speak it doesn't mean you can teach it. It is such a pain to fix all these backpacker rules that students have. At the very basic level you need to know...
You can end a sentence with a preposition.
It's "between him and me" not " between he and I".
The subjunctive does exists in English. So does the conditional.
Idioms, phrasal verbs and collocations are important, but have to know when to introduce them.
Learn about transitive/intransitive verbs, the different voices of verbs, objects, and complements for god's sake.
Playing drums like, congas, bongos, djembesโฆ Kill me
Sevruga ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:27:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fight
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:28:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Doing anything with a youtube channel..
It takes A LOT of time and dedication to make quality youtube videos, and keep subscribers happy..
Sure, you can upload a video of your co-op minecraft survival, but actually getting legitimate subscribers, and people that care takes a long time..Plus, most ideas for youtube channels have been made..
Sports. We all think we are the best next break out player.
DirtyJon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:30:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Manage a project well. PMs are certified and use industry standard tools, but everything always seems up for debate as if people know what the fuck they are talking about.
Officiating professional sports - Fans love to criticize officials, umpires etc. but there is no way 99% of them could get on the field and do their job. Look at what happened with the replacement refs in the NFL, while those guys weren't necessarily waiting to get promoted to the NFL, almost all had high school and college officiating experience, now imagine someone who has never officiated a game before...
I am in my mid 40's and have been working in IT for about 21 years. I know of 4 people who are my age that told me that they should quit their job and go into computers (their terminology). One guy is just going to quit his job and make a website that makes him money. He doesn't even know of HTML. Then there is the guy who thinks he is good at computers... tried to upgrade the video card driver on a laptop I gave him (with the newest drivers installed). I don't know what he did to it, but he tried to reinstall the OS and needed the driver... that was in a folder on the root labeled Drivers. I said, "Why didn't you use the restore option?". What's that? A woman who never had a real job said to me that she was going to become a Network Engineer from some computer classes at the Library.
Hey, I know everyone has to start somewhere, but each of these people believe they could get to my level with a few computer classes. The guy who couldn't figure out how to load the video driver said he could do what I do at my job. It is insulting.
SCPoPo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:33:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fucking poetry dude. Everybody had to write a sonnet in iambic pentameter in high school and thinks its a breeze. I love poetry, I write a lot of it, formally structured sonnet style stuff all the way to spoken word (Spoken word is a new format to me so I'm bad at it). I've got literally hundreds of pages of poems, stuff I've written, rewritten, edited, gotten feedback on and edited again. But I would never want to try and make a living off of it. I do it for the satisfaction it brings me. I changed majors because I knew I couldnt/didn't want to try making a living with it.
Construction manager for their own house. They never have that shit organized then they blame the tradesman because shit hasn't arrived yet, the other guy has to do that first, but no they know all about that. It always ends up costing more to cover their mistakes and lost time then it would have been to hire a professional.
Cooking. Cooking in a restaurant kitchen is very different than cooking at home. Also, what works for your dishes at home might not work for dishes at a restaurant, especially a high-end one.
Journalism - just look at all the sites that act like they're journalism sites but actually just quote another source. Or all the random blogs that claim to be news sites and include all sorts of opinion (often unsubstantiated).
NikKerk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:58:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Study.
sjp245 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:59:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cook. Making dinner over the course of an evening for you and 3-7 of your friends/family is NOT the same as blasting out a fully-sat restaurant of 450 tables over the course of an hour.
Funeral Directing. The amount of people who tell me they would like to do it is insane. So many people think its easy. "Aww just give people hugs and tell them its going to be ok" no, that's part of it but there's a lot of organising things. Basically im trying to organise a huge family event in three days. With people who are going through the worst time of there lives.
Im a sheppard, event planner and a councilor and on top of that an embalmer. Just because you like people doesn't mean you could handle 2 or more funerals at the same time. Its not the hardest job in the world but too many people think its something they could fall into.
Singing. I have been to karaoke and some people really think they are better than they are. I cant tell you how many people have told me they would sound like Adele if they could go into the studio like her. I am not a professional singer, but I think it would be harder than that.
Driving a tractor trailer. I've been a driver for years and I forget how hard it is and how specialized the skillset is until I'm asked to train a new driver. Not very many people can think in the extended 3D space that we have to think in to back and maneuver our trucks in a world generally not designed for our convenience.
Everything is fun and games until you're delivering a bridge.
You forgot to mention:
ridiculous hours
tons of fucking regulations
dealing with assholes cutting off your truck and not running over them
the penalties of missing a weigh station
managing home and family if you have one
dealing with loneliness
etc. etc. etc.
Twitch streaming/YouTube channels. I know so many people caught in the delusion that they will have thousands of viewers but only have like 5 yet they still continue to buy equipment. Some people don't realize that you have to actually have some decent social skills and it's exhausting work.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:12:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Book freight and clearing goods across border(s).
Moving a few skids of product to a few containers of pallets country to country to country. there's a little more to it than calling up the freight forwarder and sending it or visa versa ordering product from out of country and expecting a delivery, no delays, next day.
No I can't do exactly what you want with no direction.
And don't hire me to do a job that clearly doesn't match my voice range. You don't look at the 'movie voice guy' and ask him "can you do a british female personal script?"
Also, if you want a script to sound personal, don't add language to them that nobody uses. "Well golly gee Tim I was just sorting the intricacies out in my darned taxes, have you heard of the great opportunities available at Vector Marketing?"
Dog training. As someone studying it using modern scientific knowledge on how dogs learn and the behaviour of the animals, I can assure you, all training can be carried out in a way that ensures the dog is comfortable and on board with everything thats happening.
Anyone can call themselves a positive dog trainer, but it's vital that the trainer understands canine signalling and body language. I have seen uncomfortable dogs being trained by people with the best intentions but are completely blind to the signalling of the dog.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:22:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everybody thinks being a therapist is just talking to people about their problems. No dude. You have to help the client direct therapy and help them set goals or else we'd all be in treatment for eternity talking endlessly for no reason.
Give an "informed" opinion on something they aren't especially experienced working with or knowledgeable about is spite of being fairly intelligent. What did they call that lowest performing gal in Medical school but still managed to graduate called again? Oh yeah, "Doctor". There's a reason pros are pros, they specialize. I sure wouldn't want to do an interns job. On the other hand, a highly trained medical professional doesn't automatically want to be thought of as an "International Arms Proliferation Expert" either. But we all have opinions.
Shaelyr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:25:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not "everyone" but property management. I see so many small companies attempt it. They mess up on accounting, basic managing tenants, dealing with owners. Also they don't follow the law a lot, by accident.
THIS. I manage 150 apartments and people come in all of the time thinking that it would be so easy. "I'll just buy a complex of my own!"
Did you just put up a craigslist ad that said "Good for young professionals" or "perfect for a nice retiree?" Congratulations, you just broke federal fair housing regulations and can appreciate your incoming fine!
Do you understand basic pool, plumbing, and electrical maintenance, for when there's an emergency?
Are you able to establish good relationships with trusted contractors in every single construction/remodeling field?
Can you juggle 300+ people that all want different things?
Do you already have a written, lawyer approved, tenant qualification process that ensures you wont discriminate against anyone?
It just goes on forever, and sometimes I feel like the job never ends.
Actual Professional gaming takes countless hours of practice put in, being mechanically one of the best players in your particular game, as well as having the mindset to make the best decisions in a scenario that only gives you seconds to react, and that doesn't even take into account getting noticed by the competitive scene of that particular game. Shit takes work.
Fighting, I don't know how many times I've seen people get into a fight who don't even know how to throw a punch. Everyone thinks they turn into Bruce lee when they get mad. You wouldn't volunteer to fly a plane if you don't know how and you shouldn't start a fight especially if you don't know any form of fighting. Heck everyone should actively avoid fighting, unless your a professional in a ring.
CynDoS ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:34:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sports betting, every armchair quarterback thinks they can win money on sites like Fan Duel but in reality you need advanced statistical knowledge to even have a chance.
From a science perspective I have experienced that many people outside of the fields of science think they can fully understand research articles and the results. Sure the research article finds a correlation between x and y or finds result z but that is not the whole story. You need to look at the methods, the population used, bias, etc, which all lead to a different understanding.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:38:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Imitate the grandma saying chocolate from SpongeBob, it's fucking easy you're not special
Abadatha ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:40:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cooking. Cooking for your family is great. Churning about 200-400 dinners in busy services day after day, where they all need to be as close to uniform as possible, is not something a lot of people are capable of.
9sam1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:42:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Stand up comedy. There is a big difference between making your buddies laugh in the context of a conversation and crafting a full blown comedic performance that will make a large group of strangers laugh.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:47:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Act. I work in the entertainment Industry and everytime I talk about a new project to people who don't work in the industry they go "Well ya know if you ever need an Actor!...."
Yeah I know if I ever need an Actor I won't be calling you because every time you even get in front of a camera you giggle like a school girl and can't take your eyes off the lens.
RachelAS ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:49:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Microsoft Office. "Yeah, I can use Excel! ... Wait, what do you mean, formulas?" "What's Access do? What's a key?" "I can put 2-3 columns on one page in Microsoft Word?" "I can add words to the dictionary?" "Everyone loves Powerpoint transitions! And me reading word-for-word from the slide!"
Bottom line: don't put 'Office' on a resume unless you know more than 'type here'.
ETA: I read it as, "What does everyone think they can do IN A PROFESSIONAL SETTING", not "What does everyone think they can do AS A PROFESSION".
To become an author and write books. Just NO. You just can't be legite wrriter if you write words next to pictures and publish them. That kind of people who haven't read more than ten books in their life...
Drive. Seriously, most people are barely able to perform basic, simple maneuvers like go forward, stop and reverse without slamming into something at some point in their lives.
Rolling joints and weed stuff in general. So many people waste 3 grams of weed to roll their first shitty, saliva soaked joint and instantly think they are Snoop Dogg.
Any form of the arts, people underestimate the time, dedication and attention to detail that goes into painting, drawing, acting, performing.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:07:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
'hacking'
"Oh, you're good with compooters, can you hack name of someone's facebook for me?"
"If you're good with compooters, why won't you start hacking stuff?"
goddammit
Sports. No, you probably couldn't have made that game winning shot. You probably couldn't knock a 50 yard field goal to win the game. Calm yourself and let the athletes do their thing!
Everyone seems to think they know more about my job than me, so I have to say fashion.
Pro-tip: just because you put on clothes in the morning doesnt mean you can style. And just because you shop at Target doesnt mean you know good quality.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:10:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fight. Everyone thinks that if they get in a fistfight, they would be Mohamed Ali. But hell no! If the person that is attacking you knows how to fight, RUN. Two well placed strikes to the nose can kill you.
Gramage ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:11:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
DJ.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:11:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know a lot of home 'chefs' who think they could be a 'professional.....but they couldn't handle the stress of working in a busy kitchen. and that word 'professional' is thrown around too much.....tired of seeing people just out of college being called professional
Hacking. I see wayyy too many people using LOIC or something of the sort to "DoS" someone and then automatically certify themselves as Anonymous.
D4days ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:23:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Painting houses. Especially exterior. Especially these fucking HGTV-drunk retirees and trophy wives who think they can buy a 1960's plantation house, 15 gallons of Wal-mart shelf paint, a ladder, contractor-grade 2" brush and have the perfect house in 2 weeks.
JohnV199 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:23:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drive manual
O_clock ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:24:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
By the looks of my facebook feed, I'd say Modelling. You are not a professional model if you have to PAY someone to take your pictures
clydex ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:25:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fix their house.
I've been a contractor for 20 years. I've yet to be surprised when someone says, "I built this myself on the weekends!". The thing normally going through my head is, "are you sure it wasn't your 4 year old that built this?".
Bowling. It's harder than it looks to be great all the time, and the tournaments are really competitive. If you're not one of the best you shouldn't even try.
chanqro ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:25:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Economics. People read a couple NYT articles and think they understand complex issues better than experts who have spent their entire careers on them.
I'm so late but PAINT. As in a house, inside or out. I work at a major retailer in their paint department, and most of my job is educating people of all ages ago want to paint but have no fucking idea what they're doing.
Farming, cooking (aka chef), anything artistic (paint, write, photography, web sites, the list is endless).
I love to cook, and cook damn good stuff, I'd die in a busy restaurant kitchen. I have a "mini farm" but it's a hobby, a real farm would kill me. I make my own beer, no delusions at all that I could run a brewery. Just because you have a hobby, and enjoy it, and are really good at it, doesn't mean you can just jump into the pros. Not at all.
buttrice ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:34:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Install flooring. Especially tile. If you have no previous experience and aren't willing to learn, you're gonna have a bad time.
I'm loving all of these responses. I think one take away I have overall is that people who don't do the thing you're talking about have no idea how much they DON'T know. They see the external thing- being a photographer, being a writer, designer, director, etc. and they think what they see is the entire thing. They don't see the hours and years of a life that goes into doing that well. The endless learning that goes with it. The constant revision and refining of your craft. Doing anything for a career takes discipline and work like any other job. No less for a photographer than for a business executive.
For anyone living in New Zealand you will understand that this country has a huge problem(?) With kiwi ingenuity. They think they can DIY everything with a kitset they bought from Mitre 10 (Hardware store) and expect it to be just as good as if a professional does it... then when it breaks, fails, falls apart they complain about it however long down the track. I work as a consultant and daily I see men who think that they're electricians who have done wiring in their house or insulated over downlights in their roof. It makes me cringe just thinking about it because their house can literally burn down.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:44:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drive a vehicle
MOHHpp3d ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:44:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just try to endure a play wherein one of the lead characters is someone who's never really acted before. I dare you.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:45:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Fight.
Just because you watch a lot of Boxing/MMA or workout doesn't mean you know anything about actually fighting. The amount of times we've had guys come in off the street and say they want us to schedule them a fight without ever training before is ridiculous, these guys seem to think that just because they go to a weights gym a lot that this is enough but usually cant handle the introduction class warm ups.
It takes hundreds/thousands of mat and gym hours to get conditioned to be ready to fight and yet i hear so many people say some ignorant shit like they could fight this professional fighter or they'd knock this person out, it just breaks me.
Anything that has to do with forecasting for the future. Of course there are formulas to use, but it's really just guessing and you'll probably always be at least a little bit wrong.
Faaak ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:47:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sending a fucking robot to fucking Mars "with my garage tools to make the rocket"
Paint... I've worked with more people who call themselves painters than actual painters. They couldn't cut a straight line to save their life. Don't know how to fan their paint so they don't leave brush marks. Don't know how to make straight lines on textured walls. Don't even own a rolling poll. Don't use the proper brushes(i.e.: Cutting textured walls in with a 2.5" glide). Don't know how to use a sprayer. They will dry roll some areas of the wall, and leave ropes in others. Some of them didn't understand what dry rolling was even after I explained and showed them. Any painter worth a fuck can hear, and even see when they start dry rolling... I could write a book about what these supposed painters don't know.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:50:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drive
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:50:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Waitress or bartend
Roadguy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:53:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Finish Concrete. I have seen so many fucked up driveways and sidewalks because some asshole thinks "all you have to do is dump it on the ground and smooth it out".
Kalistar ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:56:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Dog grooming. People bitch about how much groomers charge all the time and think they can do better. Sure, you can buy some walmart clippers and give Bailey a choppy shave job but when you try to inflict your ineptitude on other dogs for money, you need to stop. Dogs are unpredictable and it's very dangerous to have sharp things like shears around a nervous dog. Groomers usually apprentice for 3-6 months at bare minimum and are exposed to many situations and trained to use their sharp tools safely. Professional shops also usually carry insurance to protect them from crazy owners who think we gave Bella an ear infection.
Am I the only one here who has been suggested some of these? "Oh, you should work in IT, you know computers" or "why don't you make websites professionally?" or "you'd be a good stand up comedian." Every time I say "no, I wouldn't" because I understand how fucking hard these jobs actually are and how many little nuances are there that I don't know about. And the reaction is always the same, "you're not giving yourself any credit." My response usually ends up being "no, you don't know what you're talking about" but no one ever believes that.
Gaming. Every kid these days think they got what it takes to be a professional gamer, but have no idea about the sacrifices, discipline and dedication it takes.
Spamakin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:58:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
YouTube
It takes time and dedication to make content on a schedule, gaming or not.
Props to you people making free content
Novori12 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:04:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
notchent ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:06:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Music. I've been doing it professionally for 29 years. You have more of a chance trying to make a living buying lottery tickets.
Vivtek ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:06:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Translating. Dear God. And if your native language is not English, for the love of all that is holy don't think you can correct mine.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:21:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Vivtek ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:26:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I figure this is specifically asking something in which non-professionals should not see themselves as equivalent to professionals. I get the occasional German who thinks they took enough English in school to correct my grammar - and I translate over a million words of German to English every year. No, they don't know English better than I do. But it takes a lengthy point-by-point analysis of why I'm right to convince them of that.
Not that it happens often. Once every year or two. I really shouldn't complain.
Now, if the person is a translator - sure. I'll listen to another translator.
I thought I was fairly good at programming, photography and photo editing and some translation. Now reading through all this made me feel completely worthless :/
RafIk1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:11:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
working as a flat-rate automotive mechanic/technician.
sure,you've changed your alternator in your 1980 chevy truck in an hour and a half,but book time is .8 hour,and that includes diagnosis.
oh,and there's 2 cars that need diagnosis and 3 others for maintenance checks that need to be done before lunch.
and I'm not even going to talk about tools.......
Game. There are so many people who think they can go pro in games but they don't realise how much time and effort it takes. Especially team games, it's not nearly as easy to work as a team or strategise as people think.
Investing money. People think that because they earned some money they know how to invest it. I meet otherwise smart people all the time who have made awful investment choices because they didn't realize how markets really work.
Just because you watch a lot of Netflix it doesn't mean you understand the company.
Manage / Coach a professional team. Now, I know if most people sit down and actually think about it for a second they probably dont actually believe they'd do a better job, but then listen to a fan react to any roster move/play call/scheme they don't like and hot damn. GM/coach is clearly an idiot and should be fired because I know better.
jrm2007 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:38:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Run a restaurant. I have met many waiters who used to own one and I think people believe that because they enjoy eating in them they also would be fun to operate. But it is the difference between eating and preparing/cleaning up; obviously the former, sitting down and doing nothing but eating, paying and leaving would be pleasant.
I blogged about science for years, and I, like the other bloggers I knew, thought I had it all figured out. Then I quit science and became a professional science writer and journalist. I know nothing, Jon Snow. I am eternally grateful to the mentors I've got now who are so patient with me.
Photography obviously. 'Oh you just got a new ยฃ1000 DSLR?' 'What's that? You're setting up a photography business?'
Cue a forever stream of poorly composed, badly exposed and over photoshopped pictures on your IG or FB feeds with that unbearably pretentious and self assuming watermark 'Kevin Shjtehouse Photography Ltd'.
Bartending. To be a good bartender in a busy place you need to be very organized, patient, tolerant of idiot drunks, super efficient and able to handle stress well. Not to mention able to remember a lot of drink recipes and know booze well. Like people who cook at well home and think they can jump right into a restaurant kitchen.
For me, being an IT professional, everything from building PCs to networking. Everyone knows someone who knows someone whose kid is an IT expert in their spare time because they once built a PC or installed a dodgy copy of Windows XP. Or they consider themselves a hacker because they jail broke their iPhone.
It used to be a nice earner fixing their messes, now it's not worth the hassle.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:10:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sing...
mrmosjef ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:10:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Contracting, anything construction... I'm am architect and can you tell you exactly HOW to do every last bit of a construction project... But hand me a wrench and ask me install a sink and it's just like my mind goes blank and I start randomly wrenching at stuff... It's weird
So many people think that because they can cook one nice meal for 2 people that may or may not have been better than something they had before they can run a professional kitchen.
Try making 5 different meals for 5 people, while making another 20 meals of all shapes and varieties on top. For 3-8 fucking hours. All while having to think about profits, waste, staff, bitching from management, etc etc.
It's not the romantic job that a lot of people (especially women from my experience) seem to think it would be.
User experience design. Devs all suck at it, but have to second guess every choice I make. I have 20+ years of experience yet every junior dev has an opinion. I deserve a Nobel peace prize for managing to placate the CEO, the product team, and the dev team without pissing off every user who runs the app.
Doesn't seem like it but firefighting. Everyone I've talked to thinks we get paid too much squirting water from a garden hose. A little bit insulting, considering I explore for a full service dept.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:37:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
within the healthcare field, be a doctor. every healthcare field/worker these days wants the autonomy and role of a doctor without actually going through the process of being one and learning everything that comes with.
Program or hack a lot of people claim to be able to program or hack just because they watched a youtube video or know someone's facebook profile.
ZE_R0 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:38:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Give medical advice. The amount of blatantly incorrect medical advice i've seen people give their "friends" on social media is scary. There's a reason healthcare professionals go to school for so long and do residencies. If WebMD and your friend Joe on Facebook were always right, we wouldn't need healthcare professionals.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:39:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fighting, like UFC. Tons of kids from my high school have tried along with a ton of other people I know. Most of them are a fucking joke and they suck at fighting because very few have the dedication and discipline it takes. Newsflash, 1 hour seminars 4x a week will not make you elite. Every time I grappled with any of them, I could submit them... Granted im a 3x all state wrestler, but come on bro.
IZ3820 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:40:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Form opinions. Maybe 8% of my population is qualified, and that's being generous.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:42:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Video games, and any sport really, the amount of dedication and skill you need is absurd.
It can be learned, but it's incredibly difficult and takes a very, very long time to learn. I'm not talking about a car you just take down to your local track on a Track Day, I mean something like a Stock car or a Formula One car. And driving it is only one part of it. You also have to learn how to be fast in it, and how to actually race. Driving =/= racing.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:50:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Diagnose others. WebMD doesn't make you a doctor but thank you for letting me know that my cold might be cancer because your grandfather coughed a lot when he was dying too
deamont ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:40:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
While I don't think Webmd is something to sling around when you head to the doctors, it is a pretty good tool for figuring out what your symptoms might mean.
Sell legalized weed. It's got to be harder than "High Profits" or "Barons of Pot" make it seem.
egalroc ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:37:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I was talking to a guy I used to get high with before medical growing was a thing. Went to his grow operation and he said, "I remember when being able to grow pot legally was a wet dream, but now that I'm doing it it's a pain in the ass."
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:53:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well it depends. Some modern art is pure bullshit. Went to moma years ago and one of the displays was 4 blank walls and the lights turned off and on every few seconds. That was it. Then there was a section with what looked like just some metal chairs welded together. Can't defend that bullshit.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:11:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
One that comes to mind is being a critic. It's not difficult to be critical, it's not difficult to judge things hastily or harshly. But to actually provide some value with your thoughts and opinions on something that is buoyed by experience and some level of knowledge and expertise in a way that can put to words things the layperson might not have been able to express or otherwise bridge the gaps between artistry and audience. Let alone to be able to do it reliably and across a wide scope of topics (within a field) That's quite a bit harder to get 'right' and in the trying, I don't think most really measure up.
djrincon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:15:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I used to think that anyone can do a customer service job, but then I met my ex and I realized that some people should, in no way, interact with the general public from a business capacity. It takes a special kind of person to not personally insult every single customer they come in contact with.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:18:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
eSports and be successful.
Tron239 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:19:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography. People (young moms especially) seem to think that because they own a camera and know how to use Photoshop, that makes them a professional. Add a cute little logo, and some cheesy props, and they start posting away on Facebook about their specials on mini sessions.
DJ. Most people think it's just playing one song to another but if you're actually good, there are a shit ton of things you have to learn. BPMs, EQs, loops... Frat dudes think they can buy a turntable and become Calvin Harris in a year then give up when they realize how difficult it actually is. Making beats is on a different level too. Shit takes years to learn if you want to make anything halfway decent. Time and money for equipment and programs etc.
wintr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:28:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Paint. (not the artistic kind) The difference between a pro and an someone untrained is really, really obvious.
Me: "really? The radio shack splitter used as a barrel and the 57 extra feet coiled up and hung on a nail totally didn't give it away."
IAmFern ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:33:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Paint, and I don't mean the artistic type. I worked as a professional painter, and there are plenty of little things to learn if you want to do it right; have it cover properly, no streaks, evenly applied, etc. This includes how to cut in, how to cover up, how to use a roller, etc.
zian ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:34:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Record the position of something with GPS.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:35:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Beer brewing. Every asshole with a gatorade cooler and an 10g aluminum kettle thinks they could run a brewery. There's so much about running a brewery than brewing 5 gallon batches.
SPSilver ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:40:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Spray painting. Yes you can get a good finish using a spray can but you need to know how to do the prep work properly. A spray gun is better than a can if it's cleaned out properly and the user knows how to set the gun up properly for their use.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:06:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Gunsmithing.
Just like auto mechanics you can bolt shit on and it will probably be fine but when someone thinks they can cut a barrel and crown it or think they can thread it, it comes out all messed up and then they try to sell it for an outrageous amount because its been "customized" and " sporterized". People who think because they built an ar15 from a kit and it turned out ok, that they can open up their own shop for ar15 builds smh....
Write clean fucking code. They don't but hopefully they'll be a Program Manager soon so they'll stop that nonsense soon.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:14:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Journalism.
Good and fair reportage looks easy right up until you try to become an instant expert, find the right people to talk to, take notes well enough to reproduce verbatim speech, compensate for your own prejudices and biases, and synthesize it all into 700 elegant and understandable words that thousands of people will read and consider.
For shit wages and constant criticism. But democracy only depends on getting it right, so there's that.
It takes a lot to be succesful in doing porn, and just standing there with fake tits or a big dick will not make you a good performer. Just like any other type of acting, you have to give me the spectacle of the craft. Give me a performance each time you fuck. If you are going to be boring and just lay there, or just grind like you are performing oral surgery, you will be forgotten.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:28:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sales. It is a well learned and difficult career and skill set. Many people discount it and belive they could do it better.
buck_99 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:36:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Operate heavy equipment with proficiency and efficiency. I've been a union member of IUOE for 10 years now and to hear the way some contractors, foreman project manager or just some dickhead from outside the trade talk about it, you'd think any spaz who just happens to own a garden tractor or has watched someone operate one and they automatically think it's easy, or the machine can do things way outside the parameters of said machine. It's a dozer, not a magic unicorn. The guy in the seat is good, just not Merlin good.
Operate a vehicle. Just because you have been driving for however fucking long you've had your license, doesn't mean you are truly a professional driver. Do you really think yourself capable of pulling off the vehicle stunts you see in the movies? No? Then shut the fuck up.
ryan924 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:41:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Baking. I'm sure your home made brad is good, but it's not the same as making something commercially
Be a cashier at a grocery store. "An easy job any idiot can do". Well no. We hired so many that must had had the intelligence of a fence post and thet could just not grasp it and keep up any sort of speed no matter how hard they tried. Sadly, the job isn't hard. The reality is the average person is a lot dumber than you think.
UtMed ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:43:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone can really do anything, if they put enough time/energy into it. Some fields anyone can tell that you're an amateur. Some, only pros can tell you're not a pro.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:46:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Make a pizza. I see all these pictures of these homemade lopsided pizzas that people are so impressed with. Where I work those things would be remade. Try spreading the sauce evenly too, it's hard!
Typography. In the Information Age, everyone has typographic and layout software at their fingertips, so we rarely rely on professional typographers to do it for us. Trouble is, most people are awful at it or don't even try, which is why we end up with 12-point Times New Roman in professional and commercial applications.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:56:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Electronic music production. Lots of people think "Oh, they're just talentless hacks who loop together samples and presses buttons. Anyone can do that." But there's much, much more to making a quality track.
idumby ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:57:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The people who are professional gamers are one in a million. You, my son, are not that one in a million.
Furnace repair. Get your damn dick beaters of your furnace and call a professional. I have no problem with you killing yourself, but when your wife and kids have no say I get upset.
It seems some kids take inspiration and try to build up their channels and/or dedicate hours to trying to entertain but that stuffs hard and fleshed out.
MZA87 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:10:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Coach a sports team
schu2470 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:10:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Amnsia ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:11:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Gaming. Games like CoD might be easy, but getting from being good to pro is a huge leap. As many things though, having and taking the opportunities you're given usually helps.
Fight. I guess, maybe not exactly professionally. But most guys sincerely believe that if it came down to it they could hold their own in a fight.
Let's put it this way: if you are not sure you have the chops to build a coffee table out of wood with little carpentry experience, than you definitely can't fight without training because that shit is hard as hell. You may think you have a hidden reserve of George McFly Left Hook super strength, but when your mightiest blow barely stuns the trained fighter you are up against and you're panting after 30 seconds, you will realize you have no idea what you are doing.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:18:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Racing. Even if you're good, you still suck. And on top of that, in order to go anywhere with it, you have to make bank, and you have to have connections.
playing video games. no, the professionals are making millions. are you? oh, you're not? what's that? you dont want to spend 9 hours a day playing the same character and map? hate to break it to you, but you arent and wont be a pro
Investing.
People who invest their money in lottery tickets often think that they would be good at investing their winnings.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:38:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Olympic Curling...CANNOT be that difficult to become a professional, let alone compete at an international level. Now here me out. Sure it's on ice, but it requires no skates. No protective equipment whatsoever that can affect vision or mobility. Hardly any seeing eye hand coordination is required. There is no discernible difference between mens and womens curling, and I highly, HIGHLY doubt being slightly overweight/out of shape would have any effect. Plus, tons of drunk people play table shuffleboard every week at bars all across the country. They even play it at a high level. Once again I'll say, give me 5 years of training and competition and I'll be competing in international competitions. Give me 6 years and you'll see me at the 2022 Winter Olympics in Beijing as part of the US Curling Team! #USCurling2022
EDIT: diff between mens and womens as in I dont have to be a big burly man to compete. Kinda like how a woman couldn't play in the NBA or NFL because they don't have the same physical mass / abilities.
Edit #2: Whoops! This is something I actually think I COULD be good at.
Work with children. I'm a paramedic and I always love peds, but I suck at it so much. Some people that I have worked with, both on the truck and in the hospital, have such great bedside manner when it comes to kids. I'm was always so jealous.
Fight. I mean, I've been in some fights in my younger days but that doesn't mean I'd last a second in a ring with someone who does it for a living. Even with the lowest ranking fighter I'd probably get my ass handed to me. But every guy, at least, probably thinks they could probably step in a ring and do all right and man...that just ain't the case.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:05:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Poker.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:06:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
House painting. As a remodeler it is almost always disappointing to hear the client is going to try and save money and do their own painting. They don't realize the time it takes to put 3 coats on everything, how much there is, and just how much skill a pro has.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:16:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know about 10 people with expensive chef knife sets that boast about their cooking skills. To me, this is like buying an expensive screwdriver set so that you can boast about your building skills.
Drive race cars. A lot of people think that because they can drive their car on the street without crashing, that they could easily be a competent race driver. Race cars are driven at the edge of traction, meaning they are at the edge of control and drivers will experience greater g-forces than an astronaut on launch. Most people will never come close to this, yet they're convinced they could easily compete in the Indy 500 or the Monaco Grand Prix.
I don't have any personal experience to back up my claim, but gaming. Pretty much every dude at my high school who doesn't like school and/or working (a large amount of them, as you can imagine. I fit that description too, but I'm not interested in professional gaming) thinks they can just pick up their incredibly popular game, a decent camera, and a mic, and automatically become some Smash Bros or League grand champion or a YouTuber with millions of subscribers. Like I said, I have no experience to back this up, but it takes roughly as much work as regular work to make a living off that. I'm not saying that nobody should be a professional gamer, but it shouldn't be everybody's go-to answer for being lazy.
Body piercing. Everyone thinks it's easy but actually doing a good job is much more difficult than people realize. Not to mention troubleshooting the problems one tends to run into.
Real estate. I don't know how many times people come in to sign stuff and they're saying they think they should be a broker because they were able to sort through some zillow listings. It's mostly paperwork and getting ignored by the other agent who's supposed to be doing their job, and having to get up super early and drive for two hours to a home only to find out your clients hate the driveway and don't even want to look inside. All while not being guaranteed compensation. For like months of work.
Work on their own car. I've seen and heard waaay too much bullshit from people who think they know better, and won't listen when you tell them they're wrong.
bulletm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:27:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Buy or sell a house. People think real estate agents are drooling morons that sit around their office masturbating with their huge commission checks. And that's sometimes true, but in reality it's not easy at all, especially in a really hot market. Well, unless you have a ton of cash. But everything's easy when you have a ton of cash.
Editing. I'm working my way into the field at the moment, but most people assume you just need to know proper grammar and spelling and that it's an easy job.
Being a chef. Cooking at home is one thing, cooking professionally is another. I will downgrade that to just being a cook. I have seen a lot of talented cooks that just can't make a living at it.
Be a mover. Sure if your a big strong guy you can move furniture, but preparing it, loading it, getting the trucks situated properly... it's a little more than "pick it up and put it down"... just a little though ;)
That's the difference right there. Everyone thinks they can do it, but to be a professional requires a bit more... I'm sorry you had a bad experience, it kinda sucks how some movers give us all a bad name.
Photography. Everyone thinks that if they just buy an expensive camera they can open up shop as a professional photographer. Photography just like art takes talent and you can't buy it. You can learn most of it like how to do a good composition or how to bring out the best in your subject. But there is a difference between being technically good and being an artist. I worked as a professional photographer in both a very expensive studio and freelance. I have won a few award and a few local art shows. I am not the most talented person but most people who claim to be photographers online are clueless.
Poetry. So many people take a bunch of big words, alliteration, rhyming, and super personal, fluffy meaning and call it good.
Poetry is fucking hard to write even if you're good at it. Oh, and if you call yourself a poet and only write haiku, you're not a poet.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:02:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sing. Motherfucking sing. You're about 3 notes and half off from the one in the song and the dissonance is making my ears bleed. The high pitch squeals don't help either, Adele.
Was a professional singer to work my way through college, and while I did not have a big passion for music, many tone-deaf people who asked my pianist to sing thought they were Adele/Frank Sinatra.
Translating. It's not just about knowing two languages.
pianogod ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:16:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I speak two languages and can't translate well at all.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:17:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
talking to the girl of their dreams :(
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:17:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a "lifestyle coach". Similar to the facebook photography situation, a stay at home mom on instagram will purchase one of those popular fitness guides(think kayla itsines), start eating clean, get in shape, and then BAM. Suddenly they are qualified to be a personal trainer/nutritionist. Irritates me to no end
Irhaa ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:38:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It, it just takes the ability to process information. If you do not have a handicap, you could pull it off, well at least fake it until when you have enough experience.
Taking Xrays! May not apply for people outside the hospital but does for some health care workers. So many nurses think us Xray Techs have it super easy to just lie the patient on the table or have them standing and take images. No! We have to determine the patient's anatomy and position them in a way to obtain the best image.
Standup Comedy. All performance arts are harder than they look but standup is ridiculous. You do everything yourself and any failure is 100% your fault.
Worst part is that you can't practice except by doing it. It's like if they trained surgeons by just giving an untrained person a scalpel and let them kill 3 people a week for 10 years until they figure it out on their own. I have a lot of respect for anyone who can build a career in it.
harekele ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:20:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Middle management... You have to be able to kiss ass, kick ass, never make a mistake unless you enjoy being chastised over tiny things that don't matter. You have to juggle unattainable goals with unreasonable expectations from the people above you while keeping the people below you from seeing that you're barely holding it together sometimes, not because you're not good at your job but because the higher ups generally have no idea what reality looks like for the lowest employee. Large chunks of your salary often depend on low paid employees doing exactly what they're supposed to at all times.
Tl;dr: Middle management: Being able to take shit from people who don't know shit while standing neck deep in shit and pretending you love all this shit.
Being good at fighting because you're "naturally aggressive" is like someone saying they would be better at basketball than someone on a team because they are taller.
Also as with many professional sports you actually have to WIN to get paid and paid well. Now imagine if you stepped into the ring with someone who literally had to win fights to feed his family
Hax_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:09:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being the next Skrillex. So many people from high school thought having a copy of Fruity Loops and downloading some sick samples that they could make big money making music. Granted some people have but it's a long shot.
Work in IT / networking/ telecommunications field. So many "computer nerds" who work in retail stores, have no qualifications and no experience other than creating LAN's at home for gaming, think they are Einsteins. Same goes with first year's at uni, how about get to at least 3rd year in your BE, and 12 months work experience before you run your mouth and think you understand radio frequency propagation via satellite atmospheric interference, or how to set up a simple ACL/GRE tunnel, which by the way is not installing Norton or creating a VPN for netflix.
The amount of douche bags i come across when having a pint at the pub, when they ask what i do, and they think they know it all and can do it, yet they work at Kmart, blows me away. Granted, very intelligent people out there, but there is a lot more to it all than many of the idiots i come across know.
porn, from what i understand, it takes hours to just make a couple minutes of film, you have to maintain sitffness for that long and all that jazz, it just seems tedious and unrealistic
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:31:37 on January 27, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Personal Training.
Fitness industry is full of unenducated guys with above average physiques that are hungry for money.
This isn't really a profession, but my brother believes he can get to the final stage in American Ninja Warrior without any sort of training what so ever.
limark ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:32:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Become an IT technician judging by the amount of idiots who come to see me about fixing their computers for something stupid they did to try to improve their computer.
Had a chick who'd discovered google come in complaining that when she'd tried to delete things to add more space on her hard drive the computer crashed. The moron had been deleting windows registries......
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:18:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:29:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My goodness, how did she even get to the registry editor without knowing what it was or having the sense to leave it alone? Scariest thing I've heard...
Become an MLG professional.
Many times i have met people who have slaughtered me in Halo or Cod and they tell me "I should be a pro. No one can beat me in this game"
But the skill gap between good "casual player and MLG players is massive beyond existance.
I remember this one time i was in a warzone match in H5 against Faze Kampy. It wasn't fun
Oh god, yeah you see that all the time in CSGO. Many global elites (highest rank in the game) think they could go pro, when really skill disparity between the highest rank in the game and actual pros is so high that there are third party rank systems which are more serious and go higher.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:46:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Curl, not weight lifting one, the icey rock one. It's not as simple as pushing a rock down the ice, infact if you're pushing with your arms you're doing it wrong
Be a stand up comic. A good one. People think it's so damn easy, but there's so many different things to take in to account that most people over look. Like Brian Regan said on Pete Holme's podcast You Made It Weird, (paraphrasing as I don't remember word for word) "I had this guy just act totally dismissive of me. I don't like to tell people I'm a comedian, but i was on the plane and this guy was going on and on about what he does and he finally asked me what I do. I said 'well....I'm a stand up comedian.' And he just goes 'oh, yeah? I could do that.'"
Flipping burgers. Try standing there all day, with no clue of when your next shift is going to be and your entire weekly schedule under the whim of some hack manager.
what im thinking reading most of the posts here : oh c'mon I could do that easily
bovfem ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:35:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teach kids. I thought I knew, went into it late in life, found out how hard it is, and every administrator, brother-in-law and parent thinks they can tell you what you are doing wrong. After 10 years, I think I'm pretty good at it.
ITT: a bunch of shit everyone knows they suck at. Stand up comedy! Seriously I've never met anyone who was like. "Yeah I could totally do stand up". Same goes for translator, musician, mechanic...
Trevoke ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:08:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Meetings.
[Edit: I'm sorry my answer isn't imaginative; I'm a consultant. Everyone is really bad at meetings.]
Design. Any design. They think that because they "can do that" they want to pay me peanuts. Bitch/Asshole, I got a 40grand student loan to learn this shit and you wanna pay me minimum wage?!? Fine do it yourself, come back when you finally realise you suck and you need a professional.
Be a politician. I see so many comments about how politicians are the worst and anyone can do a better job. I agree that most politicians suck, but give them a break because that shit is hard.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:05:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ideally, anyone should be able to be a politician.
It was designed so that you do it for a little while and go back to your farm or law firm or whatever.
The emergence of a career politician is actually a pretty odd phenomenon.
juanjing ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:24:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Marketing.
You may be the best there ever was at fixing cars, financial planning, or baking bread, but that does not mean you have any idea how to tell the public that.
I write ad copy and produce radio commercials, and more often than not, I have to throw a good ad away in favor of one that features the client's kid, or uses their favorite music, or mentions that they have a knowledgeable staff, are locally owned, or any number of other advertising cliches.
LET ME WRITE THE ADS. YOU FOCUS ON THE THINGS YOU ARE GOOD AT.
Way late to the party. But being an entrepreneur. Seeing billionaires seemingly appear out of thin air, some people think "I can do it too, I just need an idea."
The amount of work that goes into being a SUCCESSFUL entrepreneur is insane. You work 60-100hr weeks, and I don't mean work as in working a 30min then dicking off for 15-20 and repeating it throughout your 8 hour shift. It's constant thinking, planning, executing, not getting discouraged by the millions of nos and rare yeses, dealing with employees, dealing with money, competitors, lawyers, product development, product research, and then throw in your personal life on top of that.
It's a fucking nightmare and the reason some people become successful entrepreneurs is because they're on an elite level. Hard work is a skill and talent all rolled into one.
You are classically trained and have a degree...this does not mean you know anything about being in/running a band. This also does not mean you have any talent whatsoever.
The last 3 musical directors at my church are excellent examples. The last one was a woman who constantly complained about pop singers having more success than her because she thought she sang better...No, you learned some classic opera technique, but your vocals contain no emotion, your voice isn't pleasant, you sing a style very few people enjoy, and you have no ear for harmony despite all your training.
Appreciating art. People on Reddit thinks that art should be accessible to everybody and hat if thy can't appreciate it it's shit art. Seeing the post making fun of the Maria Abramovic today and it kind of made my blood boil.
Tell you what, art is like any other field: if you don't have knowledge of t then you don't understand it, period. Don't go and make fun of that avant garde art piece because you are uninformed about it. (Or even about how you should appreciate art in the first place)
High art and avant garde are created for a specific group of people. Same as philosophy discussion on the highest level. You don't get it means you don't get it.
I find that art is sort of like expensive wine, the more people value it the more others think it holds value. This continues in a loop until everyone claims this piece is highly esteemed, but really don't know why other than everyone believes it. Artificially inflating the price also helps, because if it's expensive, it must be good
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:39:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In the famous words of John D. Dorian MD, "I'm sorry but I've never heard a woman make sounds like that."
I have been with the same woman for 10 years and the sex is amazing because we know what the other loves and then try new things in a safe environment. I don't think I could have a sexual relationship with anyone else much less be a sex god.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:44:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a manager in any capacity whatsoever. I was a supervisor years ago, great money yet I hated it. I've been involved in hiring and firing people, hated it too. I'm much happier being a worker bee.
I kicked a few 40+ yard field goals messing around one day with not practice and I'm convinced I can be a kicker. I know it can't be that easy, but it sure as hell feels like I can be a professional kicker.
bit1101 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:26:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Websites. Everyone. Literally.
Edit: except professional website developers, I guess.
Solve mysteries. We all watched Making a Murderer, I'm sure most of us are aware that it's extremely bias. There's actually a petition to drop charges against the guy from a bunch of people who watched not even 10 hours of documentary and believe they're experts without doing any other background research
STRFCKR ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:34:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Driving. Most man are guilty of this, truth is you might think you drive like a pro but truth is you don't, and if you don't cut that shit you're gonna crash your shitty car into someone.
Kicking a football through the uprights. We all scream and curse when our kicker misses a field goal. "This motherfucker has one job, ONE! I could've made that!" The fact is, you couldn't even kick an extra point, back when they were still at the 2 yard line.
It's actually pretty easy once you learn the technique. The problem is the game day pressure and if you get a good placement by the setter. "LACES OUT!".
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:00:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Managing a residence hall on a college campus. People look at it as being a glorified RA position, but in reality it is a full time job that generally requires a masters degree in educational administration.
"Although not universal, some universities require Residence Hall Directors to have earned the minimum of a bachelor's degree, while most others require a master's degree in college student personnel, higher education, or another related or relevant field."
I work at Best Buy and hate when I offer protection plans on laptops and people say "oh no thanks, my son is good with computers he can fix it". Guess what? If you spill water on that bitch we would refund you your money. Have fun replacing those laptop parts.
Be a musician. But more specifically, play percussion. And I'm not even talking about chromatic percussion like xylophones and stuff. I'm talking the basic stuff that you shake - shakers, tambourines, cabasas. I mean obviously anyone can shake a tambourine back and forth and make a sound but you know how many people - including otherwise competent musicians - can shake one in time to a beat in a way that actually sounds good? Like with rhythm and shuffle and variation of intensity and stuff? Well I'm not sure exactly either but it's probably around six. Six people.
Saved comment
Alpharoth ยท 1045 points ยท Posted at 14:27:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Scriptwriting or filmmaking in general.
The_Batmen ยท 473 points ยท Posted at 14:59:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
"It can't be that hard to hold a camera. Tarantino didn't go to filmschool either."
Datduckdo ยท 122 points ยท Posted at 19:41:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Tarantino is a prodigy you aren't
The_Batmen ยท 198 points ยท Posted at 20:15:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Tarantino did nothing but watching movies for the first 30 years of his life.
Tubaka ยท 74 points ยท Posted at 21:07:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lol that's what I came to say. Tarantino has seen so many movies he can tell you exactlh how many frames the obscure Nepalese actor Hugh Jadick ever appeared on film.
EsQuiteMexican ยท 80 points ยท Posted at 21:30:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Also, Tarantino is known to have a crippling inferiority complex and the need to fit in because he knows he doesn't know nearly as much as his colleagues, even if he has an amazing amount of raw talent above many of them.
Tubaka ยท 52 points ยท Posted at 21:34:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can definitely see this given the way he talks. I think the guy is a genius but he can come off sounding very abrasive
homelessdreamer ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 01:50:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
He seems fun enough. The one thing he said that really threw me off his bandwagon was he said he was retiring from film making because the industry is switching to digital. I get living the way film looks but come on I thought his love for movies was what motivated him not the medium it was shot on.
Tubaka ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 02:27:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I thought it was because he thought he would be too old and didn't want to make old man movies
Atherum ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 05:17:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Clint Eastwood's old man movies are better than most movies. <----- Full stop.
atomicllama1 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 02:59:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's why he talks more black around black people.
EsQuiteMexican ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 03:05:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly; it's not racism (as the ignorant media tried to make it look like), it's a subconscious need to fit in. We adapt our speech patterns to those surrounding us.
LovepeaceandStarTrek ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 07:36:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The important thing to note is it happens to everyone. When Obama was running on 2012, he gave a speech in New Orleans where he started talking more black; this coming from a well educated man who lived in Hawaii and Chicago.
hewhoreddits6 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 06:32:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's just with Tarantino, it's a lot more obvious. Like, painfully obvious. There have been studies that show guys who hang around girls a lot tend to raise their voices to be a little higher, but stuff like that is subtle and required a scientific study to prove. Anyone can see Tarantino's poor attempts to adapt and fit in.
The_Batmen ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 21:32:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Well, this shot looks like this obscure film from south africa. It's 2 minutes 15 seconds or 62 shots into the movie. The actor is a jewish, russian guy who lived most of his life in japan..."
I can totally see Tarantino saying something like this.
wateryoudoinghere ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:03:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So I'm two thirds of the way there
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:10:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
The_Batmen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:11:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's called post modernism.
kevinbaken ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:20:30 on January 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Bash it if you want, no one can do what Tarantino does when it comes to homage and smart stealing. No one.
but pulp fiction sucks
TwoRocker ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 02:07:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I would need better evidence than his movies to believe that! His shit is just awful.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 03:02:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sounds like you just like the movies you like. Tarantino is a great filmmaker, even if you don't like his films.
TwoRocker ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:22:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I honestly don't understand why people hold him in such high esteem. I don't expect every movie I watch to be believable, but how a movie flows into those unbelievable moments can make or break it. His movies start out unbelievable, and get more unbelievable as they progress. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that he sleeps in Spiderman P.J.'s, because his flicks just seem like the work of a 4th grader. Not trying to offend you, I just don't really get how everyone makes such a big deal about him. In hind-sight, I should have just kept my opinion to myself.
UniverseBomb ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 04:06:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cin-e-ma-tog-ra-phy. I don't like most of his work, but the man is batshit with a camera. And I totally know what you mean, a lot of his stuff is childishly outlandish. You either enjoy it or you don't.
TwoRocker ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 05:19:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can see where that alone would be appealing to some. There are a couple of films that I really dig for the cinematography, as well as the story. A Clockwork Orange, Lord Of The Flies. A Clock Work Orange was definitely outlandish, but having read the book many times as a kid, I didn't mind Kubrick taking some liberties with it, for arts sake. Nice talking with you. Have a good one.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 06:24:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
The idea is that he is great because he has had such a huge impact. He's a BIG deal by filmmaking standards, and other standards too. He's has a huge impact on the artform because he studied many almost forgotten films and polished the unique techniques that would have been lost, and then gave them commercial success, often consolidating elements of many different films into one film to create a cultural fusion that is a defining element of art in the modern period. In the past this was a rare occurance and someday there won't be that opportunity because we will have been globalized for long enough. He did a lot more too.
My point is that there are certain measures of accomplishment that aren't limited to pure enjoyment or whether some random guy on Reddit comprehended it.
TwoRocker ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 08:49:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
He won't get a mention when the modern art period is discussed in the far future, much less his work be considered a defining element of it That won't be because his films are shite, it will because they are not products of the modern art period. I appreciate the heads up on the coming globalization! Good lookin' out, Bra.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:02:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
You've got a lot of hatred, boy. It's blinding you to reality. Next you're gonna tell me star wars isn't important because you didn't enjoy it.
TwoRocker ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:18:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:41:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
You're making this way too personal. You win, are you happy?
TwoRocker ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:36:53 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In truth, I was just having a bit of fun. Don't take it personal. I realize I'm the odd man out with my opinion on Tarantino.If we all appreciated the same things, it would be a boring world. I don't hate you or him, I just have no appreciation for his work. Peace.
Smart_in_his_face ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 20:16:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Tarantino himself said he don't know that much. He is just really good at explaining his vision.
Cinematographer, costume, camera etc. All do their best to make Tarantino's vision come true. If you are good at explaining what you want, it's easier for the guys who actually make it come true.
The_Batmen ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 21:04:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Tarantino knows what he wants. Most people don't know that. He is an author with a vision and not a guy who wants to make a movie for the sake of making a movie.
rainbowplethora ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 07:25:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I saw an interview with him last night and he just kept redirecting the conversation to how amazing his cinematographer was. It's nice to know he recognises and appreciates the talent around him.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 19:35:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Who the fuck thinks that cameramen have an easy job? I could never do that.
The_Batmen ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 20:14:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know a lot of people who think they just press buttons to start and stop the record.
slates-R-us ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 21:28:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Bro, you just point the camera at something and press the big red 'Record' button /s
slavior ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:12:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's the most challenging job on set. They're surgeons and everyone else is an orderly.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:05:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
I-Should-Be-Asleep ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:21:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't do movies, but I do live television instead. On the live side of things, the actual act of filming a subject isn't difficult, but knowing all of your responsibilities and making split-second decisions is where the real talent is. Take for instance a baseball game: the camera located on the field level, 1st base side's primary responsibility is to a) show the batter when he faces and b) show the runners when they cross home plate. As soon as the ball is put into action, they have to switch from the batter to the runner on base, focus on them and frame it accordingly (making sure his body is filling the full frame and giving him space to run into). After the play, he sees a great reaction from someone in the dugout - he recognizes this and moves to that person and repeats the framing/focusing.
It's not a difficult job, but its more complicated than you might think.
PainfulComedy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:32:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Camera men arent usually told what to do by directors either. But they have to go into dangerous places sometimes they have to focus properly theres a lot of technicality that goes into it. A film set is also a dangerous place in general
Maysock ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 16:51:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
triggered.
natos20 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:30:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You obviously didn't
gowent to grammar school either.The_Batmen ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:49:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't make this mistake 60% of time... Every time!
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:08:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Makes me think of my dad who always says "Things ain't what they used to was" or "It used to was that so-and-so".
GrollTheLicker ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:55:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It hurt me to read that. How did you survive :O ?
SoundisPlatinum ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:02:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I work with many professional cameramen. Some are great, but sometimes even pro's are just horrible. Though that is mainly just because of boredom or fatigue.
sequentialsilence ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:21:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And then to some of us who have been doing for so long it becomes second nature, and we get frustrated when ordinary people don't understand the rule of thirds. It's not hard!
jooksta ยท 48 points ยท Posted at 18:14:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And do it originally. Sure you can buy a screenwriting manual and follow their exact formula, but that doesn't mean you'll create characters that feel real or have any depth.
Also I took a media production class last semester where I made a short documentary and short narrative film and holy shit both of those things are SO much harder than I realized. I never thought it'd be easy, but holy shit. The time alone is insane. And I still can't figure out how to light a scene properly for shit.
whyareyouemailingme ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 18:30:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm currently going to film school and just took a class about post-production and color. The amount of pre-production post-production work that goes into professional-level films is astounding. The amount of technology and science that goes into modern filmmaking is way higher than consumers know.
NoPatNoDontSitonThat ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:56:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep. We have a professor here at Auburn that won an academy award for work he did with motion capture technology.
vladthetransilvanian ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:39:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What movie?
NoPatNoDontSitonThat ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 01:52:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lord of the Rings. Dr Nels Madsen.
frenchfrites ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 01:34:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And scheduling, call sheets, etc. It's amazing once you see the breakdown of all the various production jobs that go on while shooting. Sometimes I feel like the assistant directors are the unsung heroes at times.
cC2Panda ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:10:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I used to work at a house that did a lot of CC. There is a reason people paid us thousands of dollars an hour.
Araizawan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:57:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Columbia?
whyareyouemailingme ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:10:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nope. I'm in SoCal.
Proper_Noun_Bot ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 00:20:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The best part is most film professionals do not write scripts. There is so much that goes into film making that most people never consider. Most people can write a script (wont be good most of the time) but most people cannot pull a permit for filming on a city street.
Then there is the logistic challenge of getting 300+ people with 10+ semi trucks into a busy downtown to shoot 3 pages from that script. The pressure alone would cripple most individuals.
TL;DR Anyone can write a shit script but that isn't even half the battle of making a film.
CDRuss0 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 06:40:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My professor summed it up perfectly: imagine you have to organize a wedding, only this wedding lasts for 12-14 hours every day, 6 days a week, for about 6 weeks. That's what directing or producing a feature film is like.
PartyPorpoise ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:04:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, totally. There's a reason movie credits are so damn long.
raiehan ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:33:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In high school I was in the cinematography program and I just finished shooting a skit for one of the clubs on campus. Five minutes after I get it to the editing bay they ask me why it wasn't done yet. Drove me insane.
RapNVideoGames ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:44:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
People be worse than bill collectors, they have no concept of editing
TheHappinessAssassin ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:39:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Any tips for someone hoping to write a screenplay?
NoPatNoDontSitonThat ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 19:55:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write every day. Read books about writing. Read scripts. Watch movies. Keep up with current trends. Make connections with people that can and will offer constructive feedback.
uraffululz ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:06:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I watch movies all the time.
Moves to Hollywood
TheHappinessAssassin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:32:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you. Any suggestions for books to read as well?
The_Arakihcat ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:00:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Save the Cat by Blake Snyder is one of the most popular books on screenwriting. Screenplay by Syd Field, Story by Robert McKee, and Writing Screenplays that Sell by Michael Hague are all fantastic books too.
wkuechen ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:55:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Since no one else has said it, read The Hollywood Standard. Personally I found Save the Cat to be mostly unhelpful, but is likely worth a read. Don't take any advice outside of hard-and-fast script formatting rules as gospel. No one can teach you to be creative.
ararityindeed ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:07:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Don't read Save the Cat. Read Film Crit Hulk's SCREENWRITING 101 instead.
pjabrony ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:53:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Adventures in the Screen Trade and Which Lie Did I Tell?: More Adventures in the Screen Trade by William Goldman.
kingbrunies ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:27:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Go here /r/screenwriting
TheHappinessAssassin ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:33:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you.
StaciaMarine ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:39:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Check out the book "Save the Cat" by Blake Snyder. It's an easy read and very helpful!
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:32:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
SoupOfTomato ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:30:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You don't have to have a genius plot concept. Reddit at times gets a little too concerned with having clever conceits and genius plot twists.
Plot is only one aspect of the story. Just because a plot is similar to something you know doesn't mean you can't write a different take on it.
Boukish ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:41:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly this, "true" originality is completely overblown and overrated. Even wildly different concepts (like say, Aladdin and Les Mis) have very similar plot breakdowns, but they don't come across as duplicates because everything else that goes into a story differentiate them so strongly.
Ucantalas ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:19:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I like to write for fun, usually fictional short stories or the like.
A few months ago I had an idea for a movie and I thought "This would be neat to try writing a script for!"
I didn't realize until then how little I know about scriptwriting.
OddEye ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:26:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In college, one guy I knew switched his major to film and immediately tried to recruit his friends (non-actors) to do a full-length movie at that time. I tried telling him it was way too early to even think about that and that he needs to learn the basics before even considering it, but he and the others thought I was just being too critical.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:04:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How did it turn out? Did they even go forward with it?
OddEye ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:19:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As expected, very badly. There was no organization, they shot some scenes with no light setups and eventually friends were getting annoyed and dropped out. He didn't have a full script written (the parts I had read were terrible with nothing close to realistic dialogue) and he was even talking about somehow getting a house explosion shot using models. I really don't know why he thought it could be done.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 09:41:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sad, but I bet this happens because pre-production is very important. Also, I wonder what the post-production stage would have been like if they actually made it there.
PartiesLikeIts1999 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:26:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well not easily, no.
03fb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:50:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's very similar to book writing as mentioned elsewhere in this thread.
It's not just about that one totally cool idea it's about structure and execution.
You can't just 'break the rules' or go 'meta' without understanding things first. Christ I hated seeing that crap like that during when I was doing Film at Uni
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:22:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a writer for a living, but I don't write screenplays. That shit always baffled me. It's HARD. You have dialogue and very few action notes to convey to the actor what emotions you, as the writer, need them to portray.
At least when I'm writing I can use description to paint a picture. That's hard to do in screenwriting, and my hats off to screenwriters, for real.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:11:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd broaden that to just writing anything. Some things I see coworkers write, or even executives... just wow.
maxpenny42 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:16:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know which was more disturbing, his description of the inner core reincarnated souls' sex orgy, or the fact that the whole thing was written in screenplay format.
arch_nyc ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:16:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Step 1: Buy MacBook Pro.
Step 2: Put stickers on it expressing your social and political beliefs.
Step 3: Go to fucking Starbucks and start working on your script. Be sure you plug in. God forbid someone who actually needs to get some work done have access.
Step 4: profit.
thepinkestpenguin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:29:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I took one class about writing for TV and film and at the end of the class we learned how to write 10 minutes of a movie script. For my first try, I think I did well but goddamn it was NOT easy. Finishing it would have been a pain.
n0remack ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:31:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I remember in High School, our film teacher was super into the arts of photography, theatre and cinematography. The things that we had to do to write our own videos:
Storyboarding, Scripts, Blocking, Positioning, "Balance the frame" - It was actually a lot of work...and this was at the super amateur level, I can only imagine at the professional level.
thesymmetrybreaker ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:26:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Recently I had a random idea for a sci-fi story, and decided for kicks to start jotting some stuff down. Despite thinking I had a ton of ideas & visions of events unfolding it turned out to be really difficult to come up with more than a couple pages of generic notes. Apparently there is a rather huge gap between one's imagination & the sheet of paper needed to share the vision with everyone (or anyone) else.
maular ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:48:36 on January 28, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It must be hard. So many films are, well, kinda crap. Films with acclaimed actors, directors, or producers - talented people who are invested in making something excellent, and yet somehow it still often misses the mark. The only way that could happen is if the whole thing is so complicated, or so difficult, that even experts can't keep on top of it.
Or it's the usual time / money / turf bullshit that is the death of every other project.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:32:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When I first met my brother-in-law, he told me he was writing a screenplay, and asked if I had any good ideas.
So... uh... you're NOT writing a screenplay, but if someone gives you a good idea for free, you'll at least claim to be writing one, then?
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:58:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
SoupOfTomato ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:31:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most reviewers I read have immense respect for the craft and how hard it is. But they won't forgive you when you're crap just because they know it must have been time-consuming.
PBandCrackers ยท 1874 points ยท Posted at 15:54:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Make their own websites. And then they devalue what they think it should cost to hire a professional to turn their original Wix or SquareSpace nightmare into the buzzing e-commerce site that they've envisioned...
StubbFX ยท 993 points ยท Posted at 16:39:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Holy shit yes. I recently got an email from a guy describing a website that would take several months of full-time work to make. My payment? 1% of everything the website earns once it's done.
Guy was a wannabe writer that hadn't even published his first book. Fuck that noise
mommarina ยท 369 points ยท Posted at 22:10:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
People are willing to spend $5/day on coffee they could make themselves for 50 cents, and then won't spend one thin dime on the face of their livelihood on the Internet. FUCK THEM ALL AND THEIR CHEAPSKATE ASSES
bureX ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 00:47:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So... He wants you to be paid in his risk, instead of his own money? Nice.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:53:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That is the most succinct way to say that.
Wilreadit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:54:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
He will definitely go places that guy.
mellowmonk ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:21:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's different. It's $5/day on coffee for themselves, whereas website money is going to someone else. That's how they see it.
I_AM_VERY_SMRT ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:56:28 on January 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's so ridiculous isn't it.
A great phrase I learned from a buddy describing these types of people:
"They know the price of everything, and the value of nothing"
Mcfooce ยท -17 points ยท Posted at 00:11:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Services are only worth what people want to pay for them.
Dranthe ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 02:22:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Which, fortunately for website design, happens to be a fair bit.
Mcfooce ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 10:36:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's why there are so many of them bitching here.
TIL web designers don't understand the basics of capitalism.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:54:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, services are only worth what people will pay for them.
[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 06:58:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
to be fair, you guys probably arent worth what youre asking for your three years of experience making sites for your CoD clan
droans ยท 45 points ยท Posted at 18:30:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just make a standard template and sell it to everyone with just a little changed between each. Most people probably can't tell the difference between that and a great unique website and eventually (hopefully) someone will hit it big and the work will pay off.
StubbFX ยท 115 points ยท Posted at 18:37:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Standard template? These kind of people want something VERY specific. They don't know what it is, but whatever you make for them, it's not going to be ok.
[deleted] ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 18:49:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. Like I'm not a designer or dev but I dabble with stuff as a hobby and sometimes I'll help someone out with a site. I let them know my skill/time limitations and sometimes I still get those ridiculously specific or high functionality requests. And it's like, I'm doing this for free/a six pack you need to pump your breaks and hire a real person.
GrollTheLicker ยท 56 points ยท Posted at 19:45:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I studied design in college (UK college so not university) for a year and one thing our lecturer ALWAYS said was that the actual building of websites or apps or wahtever your making isnt the hard bit.
to quote him
"the tricky bit is not killing the person saying that it doesn't have enough 'flash' or 'oomph' but not explaining what the fuck they mean."
[deleted] ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 20:08:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 22:07:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Nosferatii ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:28:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Make everything bold so it stands out.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:23:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Nosferatii ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:07:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just insert [massive chunk of text] here, but keep the layout
Why_Hello_Reddit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:21:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Looks at CSS...
Background: #000000;
ffs...it literally can't be darker!
So you change nothing, tell client you made it darker, client now approves.
Drarok ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:35:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"You've done the work exactly as I specified, but now I've changed my mind, could you just tweak a few things?
No, I don't want to pay any more."
(I am now triggered by the word tweak, and all the various stupid spellings people use.)
YourWizardPenPal ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:15:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
From a designer of a different sort, ask them for examples. If they can't find any, it's never been done and immediately becomes premium work.
casenozero ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:13:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Genius
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:26:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
much_longer_username ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:03:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What I'm hearing here is 'unlimited time and a half overtime pay'.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:36:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Make it look more like apple"
hewhoreddits6 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:42:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do those websites like Squarespace that advertise you creating your own website not work? It could just be a scam, but I feel like in the vastness of the internet there should be a service that is designed to let the layman create their own vision of a website easily.
Roccondil ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:35:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They do, if you happen to want the right thing. Unfortunately there is no free lunch when it comes to complexity. You can make some things much easier, but you can't really make everything someone might imagine easier.
PhiIadelphia_Eagles ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:34:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Still not worth it
mommarina ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:13:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Did you punch him?
AzureusGR ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:16:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As someone who is self-learning web "design"(I would say dev but i have only learned decent HTML/CSS so far), I'm really curious as to how important is javascript or php.
ICantBelieveImBack ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 20:37:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Javascript (as a skill) is more transferable. Doesn't matter if you're doing php, .net, or just raw html5, chances are you'll be needing Javascript.
AzureusGR ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:41:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks for the answer
ih4ve4question ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:08:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
While his answer is true, it doesn't really tell you which is more useful or which one you should learn first. JavaScript and PHP (or other server-side languages) are not necessarily interchangeable. With JS, you will typically only be able to add functionality/neat stuff to the front-end of your site.
If you need anything more advanced like persistent data, account management etc., you'll need PHP or a server-side language (unless you use a CMS, but you can only do so much without modifications). This is the "back-end" of a site. You'll likely need to learn some database stuff too (like MySQL).
This may be confusing but JavaScript can also be used for server-side (back-end) programming, but it's much less common. Usually when people talk about using JavaScript they are talking about the front-end.
EDIT: Put "necessarily" in front of interchangeable since JS can be run on the server.
Drarok ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:36:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You can run JS server-side with Node, though.
ih4ve4question ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:04:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, that's why at the end I mentioned that it can be run server-side. Usually when people talk about JS in the general sense they are talking about running it client-side though.
Drarok ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:11:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
TIL I can't read. As you were!
ih4ve4question ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:13:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No worries, I think that when I said they're "not interchangeable" it wasn't really clear.
ICantBelieveImBack ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:41:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
True, but with jquery (and an already existing backend) you can do a lot of that with Javascript.
Though, admittedly, I assumed the question was implying a focus on designing the page.
ih4ve4question ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:37:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, sorry if I came off as shitting on your post, that wasn't intentional. I think we just made different assumptions.
ICantBelieveImBack ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:45:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No worries.
Fireynis ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:06:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But the back end is the part that actually does the work. Knowing just JavaScript means you only can really do front end. Though now with nodejs things are changing.
AzureusGR ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:15:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
First of all thanks for answering :) . I have heard most of these before. I would like to be able to get a good understanding of both front and back end and then decide on which one i prefer to work on, practise even more and when i get to a good level might look for a job on that. I thought i will learn enough things during my studies but i have almost finished and the whole thing is a huge joke. "Open the PDFs we have on eclass and copy the code.".....
YourTechnician ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:26:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well the best course of action right now is to learn both of them. First js, then php. See which one you like more. Then no matter what you choose you will have bkth as skillset. You might think that you will either do front end or back end but in a lot of places the line between them gets blurred, especially when they don't feel like hiring more people. So my advice for you would be to get your hands on both of them (and as the commenter above said, yoi will also need databases, making it three things) and while you do that start using your skills to build something yourself. It doesn't jave to be crazy complicated. Just enough to give you the feel and practicality of the job. It will be the fastest way to get to your end goal and to forget all those copy/paste pdf-s :)
AzureusGR ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:36:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's pretty much what i thought i need to do. Thanks a lot for your time.
skylos2000 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:17:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can't you use pretty much any language on the server side? Like Reddit uses python?
ih4ve4question ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:06:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep, you can.
umbrellasamurai ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:00:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What are you interested in doing?
AzureusGR ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:13:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be honest for start I'm planning of turning a facebook group i have with some close friends into a site with Greek guides for League of Legends just to share my knowledge. My main concern is that i don't want to use any CMS like Joomla, but i want to be able to add new articles(?) as easily as possibly without screwing with the sites display. Maybe make a login/membership function later so people can comment or make their own guides..
I know all these are a hell lot of work and i will have to learn php/sql(maybe even more) , but a man can dream :)
umbrellasamurai ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:30:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
The thing is, plenty of people have this same noble intention but I guarantee you're going to encounter more complexity than you're bargaining for.
What you need:
The problem isn't that it's a lot of work for a novice to tackle. It's that you're looking at the wrong tools. PHP and MySQL, while often heavily abused, do enable you to build pretty much anything. But with that power comes complexity (if you're curious about what I mean, I can go into more detail).
All you need for what you've described is static content.
To that end, I would recommend checking out Jekyll. It's a static site generator that works like this: you spin up a local server for development and Jekyll takes all of your code and generates plain html files.
What's neat about this is that you can take of advantage of web app technologies (views and layouts, alternate markdown languages, css pre-processors, a build step, etc.) to build regular static sites. Deployments are just a matter of pushing your changes up to a remote server. Also, try Prose if you're looking for a markdown editor.
As a bonus, you carry that markdown knowledge over to reddit (comment formatting).
For hosting, GitHub Pages provides that for free, provided that you make your project open-source. It works well with Jekyll - you can use its prefab themes and site generator tool to scaffold out your project. Open-sourcing the project makes sense because anyone who wants to collaborate can do so easily and the site itself (github) already offers a user login system.
EDIT: ...apparently I forgot to comment about JavaScript. It's a neat language with a very healthy/active ecosystem and is very much ubiquitous, but it's unnecessary for this project, save for one thing - comments.
Disqus lets you paste a javascript snippet to add a comment widget to your site.
AzureusGR ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:03:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I knew about Jekyll thanks to DevTips(youtube channell) but atm i feel comfortable with just notepad++ as im doing really simple stuff. I have "finished" some webpages that don't really have any purpose, but all this week i was experimenting with positioning things as i want them to be..So you can imagine at how early stage i am. Thanks for all these info tho. I will look into them in the morning as im too tired right now and it's a bit too late :)
hungry4pie ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:07:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Luckily AWS and Azure are still far too complicated for most wannabe's to get their heads around. Code first migrations? Models? What the fuck is this shit? I make websites man!!
akesh45 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:04:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Pretty important if you want to earn more than $40k a year.
CoolMachine ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:24:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
PootenRumble ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:39:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's something that would almost be worth more finding out on the phone.
That way you can just start laughing and hang up while you're still laughing.
ProspectiveQuant ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:01:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If a website had prospects to actually generate millions in revenue that would be a decent deal though? I guess unlikely though hah
StubbFX ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:35:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hah well, there sadly aren't a lot of those ideas floating around out there, although everyone does think they will be the exception.
It's mostly people who have this amazing idea, which consists of one sentence. Nothing worked out, no business plan, etc. When this is the case, RUN!
ProspectiveQuant ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:13:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I guess so. Idk what to offer a web designer at the moment to do some stuff for me...I'm semi cash poor, but have a solid business plan, and just need someone reliable. I've been thinking $500 for a basic site and 5% of revenue, but hard to tell how fair it is.
StubbFX ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:28:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So you probably just need a webstore? I suggest looking into Wordpress. Easy way to set up your own website, very user friendly and you don't really need to know how to code.
ProspectiveQuant ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:42:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not even a webstore, I need to sell services to people via a quote form really... but it's got to look slick and function well.
particle409 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:04:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just you wait. He's going to monetize that Harry Potter fanfiction, and you'll regret not having gotten in on the ground floor!
talldrseuss ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:53:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a person that has no idea about the web design field, what's fair payment for making a basic website
StubbFX ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:23:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can't say honestly. If you just want a website that's pretty basic on design and without a lot of functionality you'll easily find someone who can do it for less than 250. I'm talking really basic here. However, as soon as you start asking for higher functionality or intricate design, that price is going to rocket up.
I always tell people who want to start a website for their business to look into wordpress. Very user friendly and you can build your own website without hardly any programming or design knowledge.
sugarpockets ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:36:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How much does one charge? Or what's a price that is reasonable for you?
83923678 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:52:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
FUCK DAT NOISE BRO
PaulTagg ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:56:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
yep had a friend try to get me to make him a site for his vape juice company, he offered 10% of everything sold... I told him 250$ upfront. He didnt like that.
Rehcubs ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:37:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Reminds me of some friends of my sister. They had an idea for an app, but lacked any programming or graphic design skills. They were trying to find a programmer to make the app for them, but refused to give them a percentage of the profit. They seemed to think that someone should be willing to do it for a few thousand dollars.
flapjackboy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:42:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
1% of fuck all is still fuck all.
mommarina ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:41:52 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh and I love the startups. They have a half-baked business plan, haven't settled on the name of the company yet, no logo, and want a 25 page website by next week. What is going to go on these pages? WHAT?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:08:38 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
100% of the profits it makes until that covers the hours you worked/lump sum agreed upon, then 5% of what it makes forever after that sounds more reasonable.
Even then it's probably not worth it.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:56:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I appreciate this comment so much. Keep on keepin on
romad20000 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:14:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Earns? as in net? Yeah you would never see a dollar. Now if we are talking gross... that could be awesome
sk3pt1c ยท 300 points ยท Posted at 19:20:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Web developer here, tbh a wordpress install is a click away and a nice theme will have most people set.
Nillabeans ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 22:38:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah except that clients are never happy with the simple thing and in the time it takes you to install one theme, they'll have seen 100 others and want to integrate every flashy thing they see into the theme they already chose.
The other day, my clients complained that the font-color of their text inputs was illegible and I had to explain that it was the default color....same as google uses. So frustrating.
crackedquads ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:35:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair wouldn't changing his text input color be a pretty quick change?
Nillabeans ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 05:12:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It would be. But just because something is easy to change doesn't mean it's necessary to change and every project has a budget. The page in question was in development for over two weeks because the client couldn't decide what they wanted and kept changing the content and the design.
I think it's really important to put your foot down on things like that otherwise you're stuck making minute changes forever since the grass is always greener. It's frustrating to have a project with no set end.
TheBeginningEnd ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 05:39:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I do web development and I deal with this by offering a one month grace period. The contract stipulates what the core work contains, and any changes with only be accepted at the discretion of the developer. Then after the core outlined work is done they have a month after final payment has been made to request small changes (again the definition of small at the developers discretion).
Never had any problems with projects becoming open ended.
Lochspring ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:22:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do you work flat rate? My projects are often billed hourly, with a time and materials estimate up front. My clients are usually reasonable if I tell them something will exceed budget, either trading features or authorizing the overage, but every so often, it turns into a nightmare. A month of post turnover support given for free would be a nightmare for me.
TheBeginningEnd ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:30:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I charge a flat rate based on how many hours work I reckon the project is. I then charge hourly for any changes.
99% of clients won't request any changes within the month, which I make sure to remind them of, because by the time the site is online, they look at it for a bit, show it to friends and family and get their opinion and then decide on the changes a month has usually past. There will always be the 1% who constantly request small changes over that month but I write that off as the cost of doing business.
Lochspring ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:59:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Interesting. Do you do your design and architecture upfront as part of the flat rate? Often, that's where I find a good chunk of the things that blow my budget up.
TheBeginningEnd ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:41:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I include everything in the flat rate. Some projects do end up costing me a bit more time than I charged but others end up a bit less time than I charged. Overall the clients don't mind, so far, because they know exactly how much it will cost straight from the get go.
As its a fixed amount that I know in advance I take 10% plus any extras at the start or the full amount for projects under ยฃ75. Extras would be things like stock images they have requested or third party plugins when using Wordpress.
atomic1fire ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:40:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Also not every design choice is a good design choice.
With websites, you should make the site easy to access and understand. If your "umph" takes away from me using your website to make an order/read an article/etc, then you're doing it wrong. With "interactive" websites, I can at least understand the goal, but interactive should not mean eyesore, unless the point is to only be funny for about 2 minutes.
P_Revere1776 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:07:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep
early_earl ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:01:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
let me guess, he still wanted it changed , despite the fact google has the same color?
Nillabeans ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:14:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh of course. Google has nothing on his design skills
JohnAdams69 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:40:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not even a developer but I've read these woes so many times I think I can feel a semblance of what you guys feel
akharon ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 22:50:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. Website is as vague as saying "making food". Any idiot can follow the directions for mac and cheese. Putting together a menu for a nice restaurant on a weekly basis is a little tougher. Most people don't need an e-commerce website, they just need a who we are, what we do, contact us site.
ireallywonderhowlong ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:28:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I started school doing this for multiple sites and when I actually had to make my first site it was a bitch.
akharon ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:28:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's what separates the men from the boys.
ofthedove ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:00:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, but if we set up an e-commerce website, orders will just start rolling in! It's easy money, we don't have to worry about the hard work of advertising or anything! /s
toastdispatch ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:24:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Shhhh.
You're going to ruin my livelihood.
zeldazonklives ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:58:16 on February 16, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Literally my first reaction on reading their post was a kind of frantic hand-waving, like, "whoa whoa whoa ix-nay on the ordpress-way ips-tay, otherfucker-may"
Vomath ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:08:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep, that's what my gf has for her website. Works just fine.
eatCasserole ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 03:09:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Technically this is true, but I can spot one of those "installed wordpress and picked a theme" websites out in a second. If you want to look like a real business run by professionals, you need a professional to do your website. Then there's the question of "does it work?" which includes everything from "If I fill out the contact form, do I get a reply" to "can I look at it on my phone without eye-pain?" to "has it been hacked and filled with malware?" to the most important of all at the end of the day, "does it make the phone ring?"
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:11:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But there's a cost-benefit analysis to do. Sure, if you are trying to sell leveraged asset management programs to other businesses, you should probably have a slick website. But if you are a bbq shack on some godforsaken spit of highway, a wordpress site is fine - address, phone number, picture of bbq, done.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:00:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm sure the web developer knows what you are talking about but assumed you did not know.
eatCasserole ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:59:49 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Although, a wordpress install with a BBQ on it might not get you any benefit at all. Without any SEO, how's anyone going to find it?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:18:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not a web developer for a living but I have some experience here. Blogs and mommy websites are extremely simple.
heizo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:41:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Haha, except its not. That's the problem "Its one click install, why do you charge me $$$ to set it up?"... because to set it up correctly.. and not get hacked in the first month is not a default one click install. You have to know what you are doing.
sk3pt1c ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:20:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'll give you that, but still, a WP install can do most people just fine :)
SleepingWithRyans ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:06:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, that's fine when you don't have a large database in the backend, or proprietary programming but that's where the big money is. Some people still think their wacky ideas are just a few clicks away.
nuvoo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:49:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Another Web Dev, I hate Wordpress
sk3pt1c ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:50:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Why, pray tell?
nuvoo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:45:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The code base is full of bad design decisions. These were possible the right way to implement these features in the past, but are out of date now.
It does have some cool stuff like web hooks, but more often than not, they are used to hack together the site.
Plugins were implemented well, but the problem with plugins are the people who write them. They are typically buggy, insecure and not built for scalability. Not only that, plugs ins do not interact with each other. And if you need support, usually its impossible to get in contact with the author.
It has its uses. But luckily I no longer build websites for small businesses, so I don't have to deal with hacky Wordpress implementations.
sk3pt1c ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:58:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with you, but my point was for those small businesses, they're fine with WP, the fact that we in the know might not like how it's built under the hood doesn't really mean a thing to the people using it if it suits their purpose and runs fine, no? :)
nuvoo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:11:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I would rather use PyroCMS as it was a MVC structure. Plus the newest version uses Laravel as its base, rather than Code igniter :D
sk3pt1c ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:27:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ok but from a client's perspective: blah blah blah why?
You know what i mean? You'll basically be doing it for you, not for them, for you to learn stuff and to add it to your portfolio as something you can do.
That doesn't mean they actually need something like that though :)
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:01:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
dpash ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 01:31:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But it's good enough for most people.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 01:34:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Blue_Dragon360 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:40:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A customized layout would still use wordpress as a CMS...
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 22:49:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
sk3pt1c ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:16:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For the most part it won't though.
It's still a good idea to have someone in the know do some upkeep of course.
[deleted] ยท -14 points ยท Posted at 23:29:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
sk3pt1c ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 23:36:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Why's that?
Am i meant to keep the profession safe and milk people as hard as I can when a CMS will more than cover their needs?
I'd rather be shitty then, thanks :)
[deleted] ยท -14 points ยท Posted at 23:38:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
sk3pt1c ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 23:43:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So you're saying that the majority of people who just want a website to show their presence online are worse off with a Wordpress install?
And that their needs warrant a full custom built website that they - more than likely - won't even be able to update by themselves?
hungry4pie ยท -15 points ยท Posted at 00:17:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
If you're still burdening your clients with PHP and MySQL in 2016, then yes, they are worse off with a WordPress install.
Edit: Looks like I've upset a lot of Professional WordPress Installers. Good.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:56:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
i fear that trying to explain this to you is a lost cause, but, software engineering is largely about selecting the right tool for the job, and getting as much as you can for as little work possible. it's simple economics, you want to be able to create a lot of value for the amount of time you spend. your client doesn't want to be billed for you spending hundreds of hours re-inventing the wheel when wordpress would do just fine.
and like maybe you don't fully understand the innards of wordpress but that's OK because what you gain from it is so valuable. I mean very few people fully understand how mysql works but it's still powering half the internet, and when it breaks and you need help you can ask an expert
[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 00:07:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 01:21:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
so what you're saying is, go ahead with wordpress if it's the right tool for the job. yes, i'm sure people pick it too often in wrong situations, and a shit dev would pick it in the wrong situations, but the fact remains that it is very often the best tool for the job.
and i mean i'm not here to argue philosophy but i've worked on some prestigious teams and in my experience most of the best devs would agree that picking the right tool getting a lot for a little effort is the mark of a good dev--not a shitty one.
MosDeAtmo ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:06:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You clearly do not understand what he is saying. It is better to give a client what they need then what you want.
[deleted] ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 00:09:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
nuvoo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:33:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I do agree with your last comment. Installing Wordpress and a theme does not make you a web developer. It makes you a Wordpress developer.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:35:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
nuvoo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:47:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wouldn't use the word designer too. But it keeps the Wordpress installers happy
Oax_Mike ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 00:08:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It sounds like /u/sk3pt1c is an excellent developer.
He/She knows enough about it to understand what WP is and isn't good for.
We bought a $60 theme for our business and it's worked great...it would have been silly and superfluous to hire a developer to start from scratch with code.
[deleted] ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 00:12:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Oax_Mike ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:16:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
WP would be fine for almost any website where the primary purpose is to providing information to customers/potential customers.
Why would your site need to be tiny just because it's based off a WP theme?
[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 00:17:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:27:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
From BestBuy to The New Yorker, they all use WordPress.
http://www.wpbeginner.com/showcase/40-most-notable-big-name-brands-that-are-using-wordpress/
Oax_Mike ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:28:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You can use WordPress without using a bunch of shitty plugins.
Clearly if you're a huge company this is a different story...but for smaller businesses it is fine....and my point is that the other dude recommending that people can use WP instead of hiring a pro doesn't mean he's a shitty developer.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:31:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Oax_Mike ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:33:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair a lot of developers are also more interested in adding features that are far less important than working on the copy. So it works both ways.
aaarrrggh ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:47:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Why should a developer be working on the copy??
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:07:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Tubbier-Wombat ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:35:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"will have most people set"
That's why he says wordpress. You sound like an asshole.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 06:06:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:15:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think sk3pt1c's point was that most people don't need to hire a web dev at all. They can set up their own wordpress site pretty easily and avoid spending a bunch of money, if only they had a better grasp of what they actually need.
greatbigtaco ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:24:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I was about to pay $3,500 for a new website, then I found out about Wix and I'm pretty happy with the results. Page 2 of google without even paying for ads. I'll take it.
rarecoder ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:37:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
On mobile all of your photos are halfway blocked by their descriptions and the menu button blocks the right side of your site description under your header. Might want to look into those.
singlepanda ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 18:02:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I believe the main reason is there are so many (just so many) online learning tools for programming available. Most of which teach HTML, CSS, JS & Jquery. The first set of tutorials include making a simple app or web-page. These tools sell by saying "become a professional developer in 3 weeks" , hence the lack of awareness.
console_dot_log ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 18:26:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I work for a start-up where I'm the lead dev on a small dev team. CEO is under the impression that rather than hiring new devs, all the other employees should just do all the codeschool.com courses, that way "everyone in the company is a developer". Infuriating.
[deleted] ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 19:03:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Steal shit and quit
Dockirby ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:06:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What is he going to steal? The pens? The laptop/monitor he uses? I think the CEO would notice if you stole a monitor.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:00:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
https://youtu.be/8J0BGwt6zGw
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:42:00 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Dockirby ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:54:18 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is a small startup. They are going to know who the fuck you are. That only would work in a larger company.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:45:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How can that idiot be the CEO?
RedSpikeyThing ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:31:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's a startup.
ChefBoyAreWeFucked ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 22:23:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I would expect better from a startup, not worse.
Why_Hello_Reddit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:38:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You haven't been around enough startups. Last one I naively joined was run by an idiot way in over his head. He had a good idea, and some funding, which was all he needed to be a startup.
Execution was a completely separate matter and due to his inability to actually develop the service, the business folded. He couldn't even get his product off the ground, which in my opinion is the easy part. The hard part is building the customer base, but they never even got that far.
warm_kitchenette ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:06:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
CEOs as a group are always good about projecting confidence, being persuasive, and being able to raise money. Understanding things for every function of their company isn't necessary -- or realistic, either. For every software developer with a grievance about upper management, there are irked marketers, designers, lawyers who also correctly believe that CEO doesn't understand anything about what they do.
The best CEOs are able to hire good people and take their advice.
TRiG_Ireland ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:44:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The job of upper management is to move the furniture.
keepmoving2 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 19:23:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah. It's one thing to know some code, but to figure out how everything on a page works and connects takes years of experience. Even CSS becomes tricky when you deal with different z-indexes, hover effects, media queries, multiple style sheets, plus the occasional inline styles and !important rules.
atomic1fire ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:43:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can monkey up some html code with mdn, I also have some familiarity with html5 technology, but that doesn't make me a good developer, it just means I have google and like to play with chrome experiments.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:18:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:01:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm sure there are design firms that jack quotes up, but what I've learned recently transitioning from IT dev to agency dev is that it's actually the design time, copywriting time, account exec's time, etc., that racks up some of those quotes. My time doing the actual development of these sites is like 1/4th of it.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:12:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd argue even less. This gets expensive as a freelancer or an agency mainly because of all of the money the hiring company is not spending on a day-to day employee. There are hidden costs (especially insurance), and a shit ton of unbillable time. The dev part of doing websites is the easy part. The hard part is trying to pick apart what the business hiring you actually wants, versus what they say (not the name thing), and not making money while they spend 2 months on a turnaround time for a company photo (while you have bills to pay). Don't forget the money cushion you have to put in there because a lot of clients don't fucking pay or are extremely late.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:30:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
We've been pretty happy with most of the freelancers we've picked up for various jobs. Very reasonable prices and timelines, and I can handle most of the backend work. I guess it comes down to what fits your needs the best. eCommerce is a whole other beast too.
Dorfner ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:57:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
OMG yes! The webpages for the company where I work are horribly-done, templated websites.
This is an actual quote from the "About us" page:
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:37:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thats filler?
Abnorc ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:39:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is square space bad software, or are most people just bad designers?
[deleted] ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 19:06:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:39:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:26:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 00:08:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
KillScreenAnim ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:56:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Again, you're just proving the point that it's something everyone thinks they can do. You can't, at least not at a professional level.
Sacrefix ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:59:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
He literally said he couldn't do it at a professional level...
Boukish ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:13:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hiiiii ground! :D
hewhoreddits6 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 05:45:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So I, as a layman who knows nothing about programming or anything, could make a serviceable website using squarespace? I feel like that wouldn't be too difficult to just create a simple design with like one or two main colors, and then add in the rest of the information. Like you said, I'm not a designer, but I could make a bare bones, professional looking site with Square Space?
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:56:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Why_Hello_Reddit ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:40:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Build"
cloudmerchant ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:29:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And the people who make a couple of WordPress sites, and start taking clients. People are paying them to ask for help on /r/WordPress. It's infuriating.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:43:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Pissed me off soooooo bad. Or when you're bidding a job and these assholes are bidding the same job and potential client says "well the other offer is (5x cheaper)" let them have a go then fuck face thanks for wasting my time
cloudmerchant ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:00:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Aside from that, what really gets me is that they're in /r/WordPress asking for help with stupidly simple things. If you can't figure out how to get a category's posts to appear on a page, you have no fucking right to charge someone money for your services.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:40:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
XContrastX ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:30:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am with you 100% on this! The amount of times I get a messages along the lines of: I'm looking for a cute little online shop I can sell my stuff on. But all these "Web Developers" are trying to charge me ยฃ100 plus. Will you be able to do it for ยฃ30 that's how much my niece told me it should cost...
SilasTheVirous ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:41:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My 18 year old cousin just started a "social media" company, creating and managing pages and accounts. There are companies who do that mostly for free.
DontRunReds ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:44:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not a big fan of Wix. I looked into it after an indirect competitor made a site on it. The site is full of fancy pictures and videos, but my god, the loading time is awful. Plus you can't find the relevant info very easily. It's kinda too flashy and your eye doesn't know where to focus. I get that not everyone can afford to pay a webdesigner, and we don't either. I just prefer a lot of the older style templates offered through other services for now. I'd definitely go the pro route if we got big enough to justify the cost.
mommarina ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:13:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wordpress, PHP blah blah doesn't matter. The technology isn't what's time consuming. Its getting a logo in digital form, getting copy and photos, getting their Godaddy password, etc. Back and forth, this and that.
collegefurtrader ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:13:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My opencart MySQL DB is corrupted and I don't know why or what I should do about it :(
n1c0_ds ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:18:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm glad I don't work with small businesses anymore.
Elmekia ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:19:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
still waiting for my milestone payments for the first friends 'website', it's been over a year so far
seeking_hope ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:48:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I spent about 2 months making a website and I used a theme type of thing and had my dad who is a programmer help me. That shit is hard!!
thecrius ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:58:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This shit is going on since the '90s.
It need to stop ffs.
GreatNorthWeb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:14:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
web.com
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:34:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wix looks disgusting, no wonder the fuck up. Way harder to mess up Squarespace though
bombertom ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:56:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Back when I freelanced the question I dreaded most was "how much do you charge for doing a website?" Then when I find out that the person basically wants me to build them Facebook and I quote accordingly there is usually a long silence followed by "but my son knows computers and said he could do it for $500". And yes when I was starting out and naive I took on a couple of jobs like this - well not Facebook exactly but a big custom job for a pittance - and quickly discovered that those who pay you peanuts are also the most annoying and demanding clients that nightmares are made of. Dear readers, learn from my pain! Don't do work on the cheap. Don't do stuff for friends. Don't do mates-rates. Don't think you have to beat the cheapest quote. Charge what your work is worth. Quality work deserves quality clients.
ModernPoultry ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:23:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I made blog for a job interview once using squarespace. Honestly it turned out really good and was very easy to make
Muchoz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:01:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just in the middle of a quotation. I understand the feeling.
acr1d ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:16:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
E-commerce is so much more than the site though. So much back end planning needed. Which database do I use, what software do I stack so the site is fast, will I use Python / django / uwsgi or just write that shit in php, will I maintain the server(s), do I need a load balancer, can I just use a vps, etc.
Transknight ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:32:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Basically anything computer related
evandavis7 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:54:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
You would love (http://clientsfromhell.tumblr.com)[Clients From Hell]. Or, maybe you'd get angry reading it.
(Eh, I'll fix it later.)
ba203 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:09:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh god, this. I've got tons of friends who did a semester of art history, and therefore that makes them qualified for design, which follows onto "there's sweet money in making website! I can do it for people's weddings!" ... okay, off you go, see you in six months when you come to your senses.
toastdispatch ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:23:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Jokes on you. I actually did that.
No be seriously it wasn't easy, took a lot of online tutorials, and a good full summer of trying to learn one new thing a day about web development, but I'm comfortable with it now and have made a full functioning business website and a personal custom WordPress theme. Among countless other small projects.
durimdead ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:36:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Came here to say this. My brother just started a company and its losing money with website sales because he "can't afford to pay someone to make it professionally" and the site doesn't calculate shipping into the price... What he needs would cost less than $500 to do. Possibly as low as 200
NakedAndBehindYou ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:23:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When it comes to web development there are a few things to consider though. Some people expect the world and offer peanuts, ie they want a custom CMS with all sorts of extra bullshit like every user can generate their own account and modify pages like Myspace or something. Then they wonder why the freelance developer can't make this happen for $500.
But then you have tech illiterate customers who genuinely get conned. They just want "a website" without knowing any of the details of how its built. They end up paying some freelance scam artist $5000 or more for a custom Wordpress theme that they could have gotten made for less than $1000, maybe less than $500 if they were stingy and knew anything about outsourcing properly.
chris480 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:08:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh dear god, no kidding. It's saturday today, I spent 4 hours fixing mx records between office 365, godaddy, and another host for a client. I can't even begin to imagine how frustrated if a non-technical person had to do this from scratch.
LibertyTerp ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:57:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
On a related note, social media. Yes, you can run a Facebook Page or Twitter handle but will anyone see it or engage with it? I have reached one billion impressions due to 25 million individuals engaging with content I have published organically and people still think it's "just social media" as though you could do that in your spare time, not understanding the fact that 1 billion impressions is 100 * 100 * 1,000 times (10 million times) more impressions than the 100 impressions your social media posts get.
edwartica ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:36:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have a website for my writings, and I would be lost without WordPress. I do dive into some of the more advanced options here and there, but building it from scratch wold be a nightmare.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:37:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You're gonna love that Clients From Hell tumblr page
Drwelfare10X8 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:59:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Trying to set a website for my company and people want a good bit for it, Im good at it.
uberpwnzorz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:22:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As proven by the comments, ppl think they're a web developer if they can install wordpress and change a couple lines of css to change the background.
Mirgo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:18:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's mainly thanks to the marketing. "Now you can make your own professional website, its easy" and these big companies like Wix and SquareSpace end up taking jobs.
Then again, it's a common problem that many people often think that web designers are just scammers, or are lazy. I've seen it happen too often with my competition.
XavierSimmons ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:08:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Craigslist ad: need website maker. Have great idea that will put Facebook out of business. Budget $500.
II_Source_II ยท 537 points ยท Posted at 16:47:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fighting. People tend to have a very overconfident idea of how they would perform in a fight.
HaveFaithxInMe ยท 211 points ยท Posted at 21:39:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Here is a video where Joe Rogan talks about untrained people getting into fights. It's from a jiu-jitsu perspective, but brings up a lot of good points.
General_Josh ยท 85 points ยท Posted at 02:59:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I mean I guess it was sort of interesting, but goddamn, I learned something about myself today; throw some inspirational music in the background and I'll watch 5 minutes of anything.
VI_own_king ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 09:05:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you were curious, the track is Quiet, by This Will Destroy You.
Prototype_es ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 11:21:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Throw this music behind a video of someone trying but failing to do something mundane, like reaching across the table for the remote
Wilreadit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:57:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Or a nude chick. Then I will save it to my phone too.
bjsy92 ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 00:38:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wanna do jiu-jitsu now
Xenofon713 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 04:21:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Doooooo iiiiiiit. It could turn out to be the best decision of your life, I know for experience (BJJ purple belt, 6.5 years)
HaveFaithxInMe ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 00:54:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Google local gyms. Most have free class, week, or even 30 day passes. It is so much fun, gets you into great shape, and you learn how to defend yourself. Come over to r/bjj if you have any questions!
sugarpockets ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 09:05:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can you still do it if you have very bad knees? I think I'm relatively young but my knees hurt whenever I'm kneeling for a long period of time.
HaveFaithxInMe ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:51:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes!! My knees have dislocated around 8 times (not jiu jitsu related) so it's possible. You just develop your own game plan around some of the moves that may hurt. Any good instructor will understand and work with you.
sugarpockets ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:07:23 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Alright. Thanks for your input. I'll find some local gyms that offer free classes.
rj20876 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 09:01:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's ungodly fun.
ImCuteWhenYoureDrunk ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 03:54:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The post-rock really drove the point home.
Pigshart ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:04:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That drowning analogy really puts it into perspective.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:56:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
HaveFaithxInMe ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:52:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There's a ton of videos on YouTube. Sometimes in r/bjj people will post some good ones.
Bossballoon ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:25:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't understand the video. What is he trying to say? Why can't he just get to the point instead of making a montage?
ZackNavySox27 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 03:43:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Pretty much that people think they'll understand a situation they've never been in before due to instinct.
Think like how some would say "if someone were robbing a bank, I'd tackle them"
In this video, he was preferring to how people have no idea what they're doing when it comes to fighting, they see a movie and think it's easy, when it reality they know nothing
maulrus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:23:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It seemed like it was just an assortment of voice clips tossed together with an audio track, not a continuous message.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:43:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
jephrozen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:47:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
He's been heavily involved in MMA for years
million-dollar-loan ยท 54 points ยท Posted at 21:33:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Everyone has a plan until they get puncheed in the face" Mike Tyson
EthiopianFood ยท 40 points ยท Posted at 23:57:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Everyone hath a plan until they get punched in the faith" Mike Tython
[deleted] ยท 42 points ยท Posted at 00:16:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
One boxer's personal struggle to find religion
Imadoc91 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 00:18:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Punched in the faith." Is that what we're calling what Tyson did to Holyfield now?
Iop21 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:32:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Punched* and *mouth, not face. Filthy casual
fuckyourcouchplease ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:03:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My favorite quote of all time. It's so versatile. And who it comes from makes it so much better.
Mindrest ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:34:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, good old Joe Louis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Louis#Legacy
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 00:06:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My fighting style
33thirtythree ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:43:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ah thank you haven't seen that one in a long time.
"No crack for you today, my friend."
IntrigueDossier ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 23:33:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You sure? Cause every dude at the bar I was at last night whose highly-technical explanations of how they could totally fuck Chuck Liddell up, even in his prime, might suggest otherwise. This is especially true with the ones who were wearing UFC shirts... Which was all of them.
Raz0rking ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 02:43:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
and most of these people have no friggin clue how to stand, hold a guard and how to punch
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:23:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Wilreadit ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 13:59:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I do not think you could have won.
stefandraganovic ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 23:03:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Agreed, I've done a bit of muay thai and the number of people who go oh, I'd just "insert cliche move" here is staggering. Nope, you probably wouldn't know how to align your fist with your forearms and hyper extend your wrist. if that didn't happen you'd almost certainly break your knuckles because they aren't conditioned.
People dont get take into account a lot of the smaller not so obvious details.
kentguard-69 ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 22:25:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hardest part of fighting is getting hit in the nose and trying to make it look like you're not crying. Then everyone realizes you are crying. Oh god it hurts so much.
HA92 ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 22:16:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I would bring both my elbows down at once into their face, blind them, and then have the advantage from there.
SirSplodingSpud ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 02:22:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Speaking from experience, it's one thing to train the moves against a bag, but learning how and when to use them against a resisting opponent is incredibly hard.
clearedmycookies ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:04:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's why the white belt phase is nothing but hit the bags and air to get some techniques. It's not until a couple of colors up that you start to try that basic stuff on a moving opponent.
SirSplodingSpud ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:33:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, found it like that with martial arts with belts, but Boxing and Muay Thai are a lot easier to use in a match.
notLOL ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:04:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I get exhausted just throwing a ball around a few times. I can't imagine landing enough hard punches or having enough stamina to hit a person enough times. The worst part is the advice to "run" from trouble. Any attacker in decent shape will catch up to me quick even at my peak fitness of my life.
I can't imagine many people deviate from that level of skill I have.
tomtom5858 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:10:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, that's usually one punch. People go down way faster than they do in the movies.
notLOL ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:26:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
lol, watch me try to land a punch that's worth a damn
Wilreadit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:06:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Right. You won't have time to even land the sacred punch
ARatherOddOne ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 01:24:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is why fights should be avoided unless there is literally no other choice. See an exit? Take it! Better to have your pride hurt than bodily injury or death.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:09:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Wilreadit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:07:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And you will be skinned alive by your insurance now.
vo5100 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:51:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
EXACTLY! Part of the reason that I try to be polite to strangers is that I have no idea who they are or how they would react to certain situations. I don't want anybody to get pissed off and want to physically fight me. Physical Altercations are Terrifying for a reason. Never be too Prideful to run if it would increase your chances of safety
Wilreadit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:07:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The only truly safe way to fight is by dropping bombs from an unmarked drone.
Kaneusta ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:25:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This one was what i was looking for. Practice self defense for a long time and been in a couple of fights outside the gym, and hearing how everyone can "Beat up everyone if they really tried" irks me
Friends always tell me how they would be able to deflect or do some fancy spinning back kick before the opponent can react react, but don't realize it's not an rpg game where the opponent waits for you to finish attacking before they start. Plus all the scenarios being played out in your head are very skewed scenarios because your ego gets in the way and you don't imagine yourself losing
karlw1 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:43:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Absolutely. I'm a black belt in ju-jitsu (not bjj, the traditional kind) and have been in a few fights when i was younger ( i'm 22 now). The sheer adrenalin rush resulted in me being completely unable to think straight, or recall what exactly happened in the fight. Most people can't deal with that, including myself, but professional fighters can, which makes ALL the difference.
83923678 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:53:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Are you being a little bitch over people challenging pro fighters to a fight?
ReapItMurphy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:02:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's crazy how people think just because they've seen a few matches or have watched a few movies, they would know how they'd react. I do gunkata. And just because someone saw equilibrium , they think they can do what I do? I'm like, please sucka you don't want nunna dis. Gunkata.
Wilreadit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:08:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is gunkata some kind of black cussing martial art?
AudiLuva ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:32:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As someone who has a) broken bones fighting (stupidly,) and b) has no training I completely agree.
PRiles ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:52:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can fully agree with this, I think even people who do spar forget that street fights are a very different thing than your organized mat fight. The stuff the teach in the military is all about staying alive long enough for your buddies to bail you out, yet so many of the guys I work with think they can take on the world.
easyroscoe ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:50:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, if you have even a little bit of training in basic combat do and donts, you will smoke the average joe on the street.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:10:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This. I took a beginning jiu-jitsu class and realized I know nothing about fighting. Someone who knows what they're doing can break my arm and choke me out in 2 seconds.
r0ck0 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:28:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But I watched some krav maga vids on youtube, so watch out mofos!
stackered ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:43:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As someone who had trained in MMA for almost a decade, it's crazy to hear people's dumb theories on how fights work
MustachioBashio ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:02:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth"-- mike tyson
puffytailcat ยท 4052 points ยท Posted at 14:21:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
mother fucking farming. everybody and their brother thinks it'd be cute to settle down on a farm and grow their own food, but that shit is HARD. it takes so much organization.
eatonsht ยท 2129 points ยท Posted at 16:35:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
According to my farm simulator account I am pretty good. I have 6 million banked already
Karachan ยท 359 points ยท Posted at 17:11:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You gotta admit that forestry ain't easy though
n1nj4squirrel ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:58:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Once you get the hang of the claw it's pretty simple
FuckTheArbiters ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:18:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Especially not with those stairs everywhere
realrobo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:43:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Getting chased by cannibals can be quite tiring.
me3260 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:36:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That fucking wood chipper man! My entire farm was just a shell Corp to give me time to figure out how to chip logs.
WHY WON'T YOU CHIP THAT TREE?!
[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 00:47:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
According to my forest simulator account I am pretty good. I have 6 million banked already
shpongolian ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 02:16:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Jesus dude imagine if you had started a real farm when you started your sim one. You'd have like $6 million banked already.
GangBangMeringue ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:55:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
6 million Farmborghini units in my farm!
19chevycowboy74 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:10:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Farm Simulator to Tai Lopez in 7 steps, you just looked for the nugget didn't you?
PM_ME_HUGS_PLZ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:36:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Did it take into account that you're lazy and play video games all the time?
OniTan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:17:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
According to my Harvest Moon save file my farm made 999,999 gold last year and I'm married with 2 kids.
Fallen_Angel96 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:51:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Either my shit won't grow or I just don't have the patience.
singlepanda ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:54:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My farmville tells me I am a hell of a farmer !!!
Megaman1981 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:08:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
According to Farmville, I'm amazing!
pyroSeven ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 17:33:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fuck your farmville invites.
HatesRedditors ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 18:27:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, Farm Simulator 2015 is much more robust than Farmville, and doesn't have social media nags like facebook games do.
NOTorAND ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:51:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I got so many Farmville trophies. I'm ready for this.
beakerx82 ยท 1320 points ยท Posted at 16:08:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The farmer that does my CSA has about 9 acres to farm and has 1 or 2 paid interns to help him each year. I went out to help two years ago and in 4 hours we weeded a few rows of strawberries and picked a couple bushels of green beans. I was covered in sweat and pretty tired when we were done and this dude does this 6-7 days a week for 14 hours a day.
I am no farmer.
TheWierdAsianKid ยท 561 points ยท Posted at 17:17:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am not religious but I absolutely love this commercial
wittlewadio ยท 185 points ยท Posted at 19:54:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not an american, a city boy, and definitly not religious, but this commercial is amazing. Respect to the farmers
TheWierdAsianKid ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 22:45:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a city boy with loose connections to the country side, and I love it. I recognize the life of farmers and all they have done.
Calebfro ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 02:50:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a farmer is like being a teacher, it's something only a special kind of person could do. Those who do it, don't do it for the pay, they do it because they love what they do. In the US there is a group of kids who aspire to be like these men and women /r/FFA the Future Farmers of America. We love what we do, and we wouldn't have it any other way.
exyccc ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 02:20:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, Americans sure do know how to make you feel special and then sell you a $65k truck.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:02:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah exactly, they're just appealing to their audience.
deadpear ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 05:32:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Who are not farmers, ironically.
DrBillios ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:25:38 on January 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a farmer, there's no way I can afford that truck. And even if I could, I would probably use it for 30 some years until there is absolutely no way it would ever function again.
gladuknowall ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:04:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Why do you guys preface with, "I am not religious"? Would the commercial be better or worse if one was? Do you worry people will consider you religious? Is this just a form of bowing to perceived peer pressure? If so, It get's better don't worry.
bigbawlzxm ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 01:08:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Did you watch the commercial?
MyNameIsMasonAtwood ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:27:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think he's just saying that saying "I'm not religious" should be a separate thing from the I enjoy the commercial. Obviously it's enjoyable for both social groups. But he's perceiving that "I'm not religious" as a disclaimer so no one thinks he is because of what he posted. Which frankly may be the case, but I doubt it.
exyccc ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 02:21:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, what that means is "you'd expect it to suck if you're not religious, but it didn't suck".
BleuWafflestomper ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 01:38:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The commercial is religious bro, he's not saying it for no reason. This commercial has a strong Christian pretence to it, it appeals to those morals.
Zhoom45 ยท 33 points ยท Posted at 21:33:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You could advertise literally anything at the end of those two minutes and people would buy it. Brilliant marketing.
TheWierdAsianKid ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 22:44:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I love it because it's a beautifully done commercial that doesn't blatantly bombard you with features of the truck, and it doesn't bash any other companies.
BleuWafflestomper ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 01:41:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's awesome how people bitch about super vague commercials that have no relation to the product and now here you are saying you prefer it. It's almost like different people like different things, how insightful.
Dragon_DLV ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 06:59:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well I like it just because it had Paul Harvey's voice in it.
Good day!
TheWierdAsianKid ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:22:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know right!?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:13:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But haven't you heard? The new Chevy SilveradoTM is made of high strength steel!
TheWierdAsianKid ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:45:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I fucking hate all those Chevy ads
whythisname ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 17:30:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Was in FFA for awhile, wish I had a dollar for every time I had to sit through this commercial
ALexusOhHaiNyan ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 00:37:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not even bother to click. "God Made A Farmer" right?
I'm not crying my eyes are just sweaty.
Dragon_DLV ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 07:01:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I miss Paul Harvey.
Jhuoho ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:34:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I love that one too. It also reminds me of this one. Unrelated but good.
Supposedly it was only aired once because they didn't want to look like they were trying to use it to boost sales.
User1239876 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 00:59:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Damn I mis Paul Harvy. My parents used to listen to his radio program after church on the ride home. Our neighbors always thought we were weird, sitting in the car outside the house for 30 minutes every Sunday afternoon and none of us would talk. That man knew how to keep his audiences full attention; until he started trying to sell us the bose wave radio....
smogievogie ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:50:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I find it blasphemous that you aren't a member of the church of Dodge Ram
Nmaka ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:31:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hnngg, the feels
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:45:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That is a phenomenal ad.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:02:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I did, several summers. Help. There were three generations on this farm. The last generation, four girls. I got up at 4, drove 20 miles to milk cattle, eat breakfast (best ever), then feed all the cattle, calves, bull, pigs, then get the equipment filled with fuel or unload the wagons. Then stack the hay bales for six hours, fix fences, move equipment, check on cattle, eat lunch (best ever), cut weeds on 1/4 mile of electric fences and then call cattle for evening milking and feeding. Bucket feed the calves, feed the bulls and pigs. Drive home at 7 pm and drop dead for the night, to get up at 4, seven days a week. I was sixteen. I do other work now, my team mates ask how i can keep going after 15 hours. Farmers, especially dairy farmers are, "honey badgers."
TheWierdAsianKid ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:18:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a city kid and I have had loose connections to the countryside. I always loved the idea of doing all that hard work and to be working in such a earthly environment. Hat off to you man for doing all of that. Farmers have always been the backbone of pretty much any nation, it's incredible what they do, and so sad for what big corporations do to fuck them over.
Ummmmmyeahno ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:59:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Haven't clicked the link.... But it's the Paul Harvey "So God made a farmer..." One isn't it? My Papaw was a farmer, my uncles and cousins farm still. It gets me every time!
lazylion_ca ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:27:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And now you know
The rest of the story.
zenani ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:33:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Damn...those are awesome countryside images esp of those barns. Makes me want to visit the farm here.
Viper_ACR ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:44:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Chrysler has had some good commercials recently.
TheWierdAsianKid ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:49:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And chevy is just absolute shit
bossmcsauce ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:32:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
good add. don't really have to be religious to recognize the integrity of the farming folks.
reminds me of the Johnny Walker add that was made by some students as a project.. god damn, that shit was brutal. I cried. and then I bought a bottle of Johnny Walker Red Label.. I don't even like Johnny Walker... god damn marketing.
Imtroll ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 21:27:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That top comment deserves to be on /r/im14andthisisdeep
"Men in denim built this country, men in suits destroyed it."
I mean in every manner that is wrong, and yet the replies to the top comment are
"well put sir!"
Lol this is classic.
ChefBoyAreWeFucked ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:25:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"And Bing Crosby just wants to watch the world burn."
H37man ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 22:12:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I live in rural Indiana. The commercial should go I need someone to stay semi sober and capable of driving large machinery at 1-2 mph as they drink and smoke constantly. They also need the ability to hire seasonal workers when any hard work actually needs done. But the most important ability they need to have is the ability to hire someone to fill out paperwork so they can get there government subsidize and not go bankrupt. Life is hard for farmers around here.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:13:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I grew up in New York, and I have rarely seen anyone work as hard as the dairy farmers who lived in the surrounding areas. They work so hard for pretty much a hand to mouth existence and are completely due their credit.
H37man ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:18:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I guess grain farming in Indiana is different than dairy farmers in New York. Who would have thunk it.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:38:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I guess all farming isn't necessarily centered around grain farming in Indiana. Who'd a thunk?
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:20:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
H37man ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:24:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nah I just grew up around farmers. If you want to believe there all hardworking good people that's fine. But now your the one sounding naive. I'm a bit jealous though. It would be nice to inherit hundreds if not thousands of acres of land and the millions of dollars worth of machinery that goes along with being able to farm it. Most of our grain is not coming from people farming 9 acres of land with just the sweat of there brow.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:34:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
H37man ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 23:35:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Obviously I don't have to. I just choose randomly and hope for the best. They all sound the same in the end.
Julege1989 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:01:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A pig and your mother sound the same, but I'd only fuck your mother.
H37man ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:02:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Poor choice. Should have went with the pig.
shalafi71 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:54:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Russian farmer goes into the kitchen with a pig under his arm.
"Look at this pig I must fuck."
Wife: "Stop fucking pigs."
"I was talking to pig."
popcan2 ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 23:32:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
who asked you if you're religious. why did you feel the need to add a "disclaimer" to your comment. People who believe in God are +1 up on people who don't.
TheWierdAsianKid ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:47:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can understand the like for the commercial if one was religious because of the narration
elneuvabtg ยท 189 points ยท Posted at 17:15:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Picking is almost entirely done by hispanic people in America. It's a very hard job. The Super Size Me dude did an episode on picking in his tv show. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg3WFt72RM8
[deleted] ยท 46 points ยท Posted at 17:58:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I hope trump has some millions of magical workers set aside for when he kicks out those Mexicans...
jammbin ยท 50 points ยท Posted at 18:08:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This actually already sort of happened a while ago in the South. States legislatures passed one of those laws requiring people to show proof of citizenship, and so tons of people left. Lo and behold farmers literally had crops just rotting in their fields because they had no one to pick and process them. There were tons of interviews with farmers saying even for decent pay (~$15/hr which isn't bad for someone without a HS degree in a cheap area of the country) they couldn't get anyone to come back after the first day. I'd say this would probably go the same way for the slaughterhouses. I'm all for making sure people have legal means to live in this country, but sometimes you need a much more nuanced solution. Just kicking people out creates a whole other mess of issues that didn't need to happen if people just weren't so xenophobic.
EsQuiteMexican ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 21:00:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I remember reading about that. Some states even tried to get prisoners to do it, but it ended up being twice as expensive, not to mention the potential risk of escape.
Basic_Becky ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:06:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Or maybe it just shows farmers are waaaaaaay underpaying for the work that's getting done.
I'm for getting rid of illegal immigrants. I'll admit that up front (and feel brave for doing so on reddit /s). But here's one of the reasons - it has nothing to do with xenophobia. I don't care what race/ethnicity is doing a job. But what I do care about are the blue collar workers in this country legally. Because we have so many people here illegally willing to do the work for so much less than it's worth at normal market value (as illustrated by the farmers you cite), they're pushing people living here legally out of jobs that might give them livable wages. For all the talk of wanting livable wages for people, I find it curious that those on the left don't support those living here legally by protecting them. I'm not interested in a slam fest here, but if my thinking is way off base, I'd love to hear from people like I describe above. I may not come away agreeing with you, but it might be a learning experience to at least understand your thinking. Thanks!
Big_Test_Icicle ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 21:50:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I see your points and they are valid points. However, if we look at the states the "kicked out" the illegal immigrants the turn over rate was high. This is even when farmers were willing to pay $15/hour in areas where that money can go a long way. More so, this offer was available to those w/o a HS diploma. While I agree we need to change the system and offer legal blue collar workers opportunities at a decent job, those same workers did not want to take the job when it was available. How much do you expect to pay them? $45/hour? $50/hour? Lets project this long-term, we then offer 8 hour days, vacation, insurance, union, etc. We will also need to factor in transport, storage, revenue, etc. Are you willing then to pay triple for those tomatoes at the store? Or have a lower variety at your grocery store? Basically what I am trying to say is that while it is great to argue how terrible that illegal immigrants take away potential jobs the bottom line is that they do work, for pay and hours, legal workers do not want to touch. Don't hate the person trying to make a better life for themselves and families (this is essentially what America is about) hate the system for creating such an environment.
Max_Trollbot_ ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 21:27:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I support an entirely different system.
I think we should keep the people who are willing to risk life and limb to get here merely to work a ridiculously hard job for almost no compensation.
And in return, we should deport our lazy, worthless people who happened to have the blind luck to have been born here.
Bricka_Bracka ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:21:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Deport to where though
Max_Trollbot_ ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:39:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Who knows?
The point is that we shouldn't assign some arbitrary value to people based on the country where they were born.
Basic_Becky ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 21:42:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
lol Good luck changing the Constitution there...
I understand where you're coming from though. I don't support those coming here illegally even if they are hard workers because what I wrote above about them artificially deflating wages for people who care enough about our country/economy/etc. to follow our laws. There are SO MANY people who want to live here and are willing to do it legally. By allowing those who chose to break the law to stay, we're more or less saying 'Fuck you' to those who now have to wait longer to come in legally (because our country has decided it can only absorb X amount of immigrants per year).
Max_Trollbot_ ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:45:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My idea only works in theory and as a point to the fact the merely being an illegal immigrant makes one neither a bad citizen nor a detriment to society.
Also, we could probably use a significant streamlining of the immigration process.
RoboOverlord ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 23:27:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Get educated.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/05/15/north-carolina-needed-6500-farm-workers-only-7-americans-stuck-it-out/ http://www.wsj.com/articles/on-u-s-farms-fewer-hands-for-the-harvest-1439371802 http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/magazine/why-americans-wont-do-dirty-jobs-11092011.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/26/farm-labor-shortages_n_3996502.html
Important notes: Very few farm workers are actually illegal, and even when there is no illegal/outside competition, Americans do not want this job.
Revvy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:13:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
American's don't want to do shitty jobs for shitty pay, and they won't, because there are other options. Supply and demand is a bitch when it's working against you.
Basic_Becky ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:49:52 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Why would you say "educate yourself" and then provide links that don't address what I said. From one of your links: " Rhodes has had trouble finding Americans willing to grab a knife and stand 10 or more hours a day in a cold, wet room for minimum wage and skimpy benefits." Well, yes, that's true. But I didn't suggest paying anyone minimum wage. I suggest letting the market set wages while starting with a fair playing field, one where the job market isn't saturated by a labor pool of illegal immigrants.
In those areas where legal residents won't take the job at the wage offered, it indicates the wage offered likely isn't high enough. There is a price point where people will work.
jammbin ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:02:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The thing was, they tried paying people fair wages ($15/hr is really pretty good when the cost of living is super low, like 4 bdrm homes for $60k). They all quit after a day or two. Someone mentioned it below but they even tried using prison labor and that didn't work either. I should also mention that not all of the workers were illegal. Many of them had citizenship but were so scared of being harassed by police out in public they all stopped going to work and sending their kids to school.
I agree that I'd rather people go through the legal way of coming here - but if they are already here doing work that other people won't do (and again I think this is pretty dependent on the region of the country) I have big problem with just trying to cut then out of society and send them back elsewhere. The thing is, it's really really rare to find conservatives whose motive is not race based. They can spew figures and tout their support of American jobs all day long, but really its laws specifically attacking certain groups of people that don't fit their standards of "American." They weren't arresting the white people without passports on them, and it was abundantly clear that they didn't intend to. So then it bit them in the ass and they realized that actually just kicking people out or driving them underground isn't a great policy. There's a lot to gain from assimilating people, I wish more people could see past the rhetoric and focus on how to integrate immigrants successfully.
Revvy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:15:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Then pay them $30/hr. Supply and demand is never fair, but it is the god of our economic system.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:43:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Basic_Becky ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:32:42 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think you might have been trying to answer my post... but you replied to Revvy.
Nice assumption about "my" xenophobia. I really couldn't care less about the color of the skin of the person who picks lettuce. I also don't care about their country of origin. Why would I give a fuck?
I do care about the people already here legally. My problem is not with Mexicans (or Chinese or Indian or Irish), it's with people here illegally.
You're right. I am banking on the idea that you can pay someone enough and they'll do (most) anything. Will the price of labor (and produce) inflate under my idea. Yes. But it will inflate to where it should have been all along -- the rate at which the market can provide legal workers.
You see, opposite of being xenophobic, I worry about the legal blue collar laborers who may be recent immigrants and may not have had much of an education. They don't have a lot of options for jobs, so they're stuck picking crops, slaving away in hot restaurant kitchens, cleaning hotel rooms and the like. When a whole pool of illegal immigrants try for the same jobs and are willing to take low wages (because the low wages here are higher than the wages they can make at home), it drives the wages down for everyone in the industry. So now those people who are here legally can't even make what the job is worth. I know these people. I grew up with them. I'm not xenophobic. I care for their welfare.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:29:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If farmers had to pay Americans for the job, they would have to pay extremely high wages. The cost of produce will go up.
That may not seems like a big deal, but fresh produce is a luxury not a necessity. If lettuce from the US costs $10 a head, people aren't going to pay for that, they will just stop eating lettuce or buy lettuce from other countries. The farming industry will collapse and all farms will convert to grain because that is what is profitable to make in the US without migrant labor.
This really won't help the blue collar worker at all.
Sparticus2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:50:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have a HS degree and I'd gladly take $15 an hour.
Noumenon72 ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 18:30:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ah, the old crops rotting in the fields trope.
VisserThree ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 19:10:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
what the fuk is that weirdo website you've linked to
10ebbor10 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:56:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It appears to be some Confederate Patriotic paper.
Noumenon72 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 20:14:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's kind of a racist ghetto, but I go there when Steve Sailer writes there.
jammbin ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 18:57:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's not a trope, I lived there and I have friends whose parents are farmers - it's different in CA but it was definitely an issue in the South. The racism was/is so heavy in certain areas that even legal citizens stopped sending their kids to school and going to work because you don't want to be a minority who gets pulled over by the cops, even if you have your papers, you are very likely to not get the chance to prove it before you get shot or are in the back of the car on your way to jail.
I'm not saying just open up borders to everybody, but the way to handle immigration issues is not to isolate and alienate sects of the population. We've seen it hundreds of times with conservatives pushing a one size fits all zero tolerance agenda and all it does is drive the problems underground where issues spread more quickly and things just get worse. Take the spread of HIV/AIDS in the US under the Reagan administration. It cause the virus to spread far more quickly because instead of looking for a cure or a way to mitigate the spread they stigmatized it and causing people to lie about their status and not seek treatment. It's similar to immigration issues - if you just round people up and try to kick them out because you are scared of the color of their skin you are going to have a whole host of secondary issues. Having an alienated minority population that hasn't assimilated is really unstable.
NakedAndBehindYou ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 04:14:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If they want to attract workers then they have to be like every other business and offer better pay and better working conditions. "But nobody else wants to work in my shitty job for peanuts" is not justification for allowing illegals to come and stay here.
If that means the price of fruit and vegetables has to go up a bit, so be it. America will survive.
zaphod_beeble_bro ยท 49 points ยท Posted at 18:15:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have Mexican relatives in the southern u.s. they always point out that they'll hear rednecks complaining about Mexicans stealing their jobs, yet none of those guys are willing to do the job these Mexicans "stole".
[deleted] ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 18:30:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because we all want a quart of berries to cost a dollar. Can't do that while paying a living wage for the way Americans want to live. Only way is to use migrant workers.
Same thing is one of the reasons we don't have as much manufacturing. Companies don't want to pay for US labor and US shoppers don't want to pay prices that would allow companies to pay for US labor. It's a vicious cycle.
poprop03 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:41:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Manufacturing is alot more competitive than picking though.
With automation and investment you can produce most thing here and make a profit.
Until we have berry picking robots or something, picking isn't gonna really be able to pay a decent wage.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:09:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
its almost as if the situation could be solved by paying the workers a wage that allows them to buy the product made by US labor.
But no, thats ridiculously, clearly it should go to the CEO to promptly be stowed away on an offshore tax shelter.
Hax0r778 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 21:24:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's more complicated than that. If the workers were paid a living wage in the US and the product sold at a small profit then the cost would be way higher than importing the same product from Central America. Most people would (reasonably imho) buy the much cheaper product from Guatemala and the US business/farm would shut down.
SmegmataTheFirst ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:07:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
If there's a demand on labor, the wages will rise.
If nobody wants to do the job, the jobs openings remain vacant and thus the wage rises in order to attract more applicants. This continues until people will want to do the job. That 'jobs nobody wants to do' argument just will never hold water. It sure sounds good until you actually think about it for two seconds.
wildebeest ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:33:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But then food prices go up significantly, and Americans get angry
Goose1963 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:47:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't understand this complaint. For every job "stolen" wouldn't there have to be an American "giving" them the job?
Mahlaandovah ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:49:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I pick apples for a local Orchard. Myself(caucasion) and my brother-in-law(mexican) pick roughly 700 trees in 2 months. We also walk beans. I enjoy it. I have had other friends(mostly white) come and help and then quit 2 days later, because it's too hard haha We get paid $10/hr for the apples, and work everyday unless it rains from September to early or mid November. And for the beans we get anywhere from $8-$10/acre, which is contracted work so we pay our own taxes at the end of the year out of what we make. It is hard damn work, and not a lot of people want to do it anymore.
Big_Test_Icicle ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:40:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Came here to say the same thing. While illegal immigration is not right and only a small percentage of illegal immigrants commit crimes, no American is going to take on the labor these immigrants do for the same pay and no benefits. All of sudden they will want better hours, vacation, insurance, unions, etc. We need the illegal immigrants to keep costs down. While their work is shit I believe both sides benefit. We get cheap labor and the illegal immigrants get a better life when compared to the life they had in Mexico.
xjescobedox ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:14:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I feel as if i misunderstand what your trying to say are you referring to the job being shit as in a difficult job to do or do you mean that immigrants do shitty jobs because if its the latter i would disagree by saying that the overwhelming majority of immigrants have better work ethic than others.
Big_Test_Icicle ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:35:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I meant that the job is physically challenging. They get paid below minimum wage, no benefits, no health coverage, etc. I agree with you with immigrants having a great work ethic.
xjescobedox ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:48:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
thanks for clarifying, it sure is as you said highly difficult and demanding i think its also a cultural thing as well as a first generation child born to a family of immigrants i have to say that i feel as if i don't have that hunger in the same way they do.
OncebitTwiceShy ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 20:01:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe those farmers will pay an actual competitive wage which will allow non illeagals to do the job. That would be the actual capitalist thing to do. Not having a sub class of people working for illegal wages which everyone looks away from.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 20:52:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lol. The same, misguided talking point raises its ugly head.
Anyone that is involved with that aspect of agriculture will tell you that white people straight up don't want to do these jobs for $15 an hour. Trust me, I was born around agriculture and we could never hire gringos to do this kind of stuff. They sucked at it.
Furthermore, all the illegals I met actually paid into social security and they paid taxes, while never taking anything back (they were terrified of being deported). For the businesses I knew who hired illegals, it would have been impossible to get away with it if they paid them under the table. You have to pay them over the table if you're working on any large scale, and just operate on a certain amount of plausible deniability.
Many of the migrant workers do not live here or have family here on any long term basis. They don't want to, they just want to make some money to bring back to Mexico.
Also, I'd like to say that in at least the industries I was involved in, we paid immigrant workers very well. I know they are exploited in other areas though. All the more reason why we need to work to create sane legislation for migrant workers.
(tangential, but why do conservatives say we just need to make these jobs pay better to make them worth doing, and yet they're against paying a fair, living minimum wage?)
OncebitTwiceShy ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 21:00:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So did people not eat before mexicans? How do other people on this planet get food without Mexicans picking it? Yes the price of some foods will go up but they should. They are being artificially deflated because both parties look the other way because it benefits them both.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:03:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What happened in the past or what happens in other countries doesn't really help us, because we are dealing with the society and culture here, not the society and culture in other places. These agriculture jobs have been done by this class for so long, that if you took that class away, you can't not have problems. It's not a question of prices going up, the problem is that there is literally not the work force available to pick the crops without migrant workers. They 'exist' in that there's enough people that -could- do the jobs, but they won't do the jobs. You literally can not hire enough non-migrants to do these jobs right now.
Basic_Becky ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 21:14:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Really? Can you cite your sources? Because when I look at the unemployment numbers, it seems we could fill a heck of a lot of jobs.
I think what you mean is we can't fill the jobs for the artificially depressed wages currently being paid to illegal workers ... but I think that's ok. Farmers should pay market wage for labor just like everyone else does. Sort of sucks that we'll all have to pay more for produce, but it's what's right, rather than A) exploiting workers and B) pricing legal workers out of jobs.
Big_Test_Icicle ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:57:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You are correct in that the numbers can fill those vacancies. However, it is assuming that the unemployed are willing to work for the same wage, hours, conditions as the illegal immigrants. Consumers are not willing to pay $10/pound of apples or $7/lemon.
FuzzyBlumpkinz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:10:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So what you're saying is that instead of artificially depressing the wages, instead we should just inflate the rest of the economy, which in turn will end up causing more wage problems, then more inflation, etc etc?
EsQuiteMexican ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 21:04:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They had slaves.
After slaves, there were no minimum wage laws for around 70 years.
After minimum wage laws, most farms were family business where you bred to get more free employees.
No country has the same amount of farms as the US.
If food prices go up, poor people will starve to death, and the economy will suffer a depression. Human lives are more important than capitalism.
Basic_Becky ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:15:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd like to read more. Can you cite sources for your fifth claim?
OncebitTwiceShy ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 21:23:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most slaves picked cotton, tobacco, and other cash crops. There were not many slaves in the Midwest where the vast majority of the countries grain comes from.
So your saying whites(mostly) worked for less money.
I think you underestimate the size of farms.
They also have less people to feed. Who picks their food ?
I highly doubt the poor will starve due to increased prices of fruits grown in the southwest when the vast majority of it is grown in the Midwest.
If your Mexican like your username says, how are you comfortable with millions your people being wage slaves?
Basic_Becky ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:11:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
First, let me say your point about "white people" seems pretty racist. Nobody here has been talking about the color of people's skin. They've been talking about legal status. But aside from that, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by saying white people won't do the work for $15/hour. Doesn't that just illustrate how terribly artificially depressed the pay is for pickers by having a flood of illegal workers?
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:32:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sure, it's all about legal status. But most migrant workers are from mexico. You're reaching on that one, there's no racism here (differences come from culture, not race).
The mexican culture is different from ours. The average mexican worker has a different work ethic. If you haven't worked intimately with them, I don't think you can get a real good feel for how their culture instills a distinctly different work ethic.
I'm speaking from experience in agriculture. These jobs are damn hard. If you want home grown Americans to do them, you will need to change American culture such that our work ethic is more like that of these migrant workers. It's not an issue of money, it's an issue of culture.
Basic_Becky ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 21:37:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
LOL I grew up in an agricultural area in So Cal. I am very familiar with Mexican culture and I agree that many Mexicans have an amazing work ethic. I'd disagree that Americans don't. But I would say that Mexicans (and other Latinos) coming here to escape absolute third-world type poverty are more motivated to work for a lot less money than people here. They can do that because they're sending their money home, where the cost of living is so much less. Workers here have to make more to support the same number of family members. Again, I don't think it's a matter of Americans not being willing to work those jobs (as much as they truly do suck), it's a matter of the wages being waaaaaaay too low and kept that way by the huge pool of illegal workers.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:41:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Although I disagree on some specifics there, then would you agree the real problem here is we need legislation that helps make hiring migrant work a legal and fair solution? Trying to get rid of them just won't work, in my eyes.
Basic_Becky ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:56:08 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Perhaps. It depends on how you define "migrant worker." If you just mean workers who migrate from farm to farm, then we could probably agree on something. I know many families (and know of many more) who follow the crops, if you will. They'll live in Oxnard, CA long enough to pick strawberries until strawberry season is done and then might migrate up the Central Valley to pick walnuts or something next and then maybe all the way up to Oregon or Washington for apple and cherry season.
I suspect that's not what you meant, though. No, I don't support a program to bring in temporary workers on a visa program and legislate their wages. I think we should let the market sort that itself. however, I think we should enforce existing laws regarding hiring illegal immigrants and enforce immigration law. I think the rest would straighten itself out.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 21:29:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:38:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What are you even trying to say here? You made it clear you didn't agree with me but you didn't actually say anything constructive. We can't pay Americans 25k per hour, and that's just being reductive.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:47:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:48:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think one of us is clearly being a little more rude here lol.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:51:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:01:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Didn't see that one coming. I did ask for clarification on why you thought I was wrong, but you just called me 'dismissive and provocative' instead of saying something about the issue at hand. I'm sorry you have a problem with my tone, but I said things dismissively because I've worked in agriculture for a long time and have seen many people discussing an industry they don't have very much experience with. Maybe I should have been a littler nicer, but you also seem to have strong feelings on this, so you can see how it's easy to get heated.
Origami_Paper ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:26:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You wouldn't do the job anyways.
OncebitTwiceShy ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 21:34:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Me? No. But I also am not a garbage man. Yet somehow, people do the job.
FuzzyBlumpkinz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:58:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Garbage men typically get good wages plus benefits.
Pickers typically get barely enough to eat plus spine problems.
Farmers typically can't afford to pay pickers a decent wage or offer benefits, as most of them struggle to break even anyway.
Basic_Becky ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:00:57 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Perhaps the real problem, then, is farm workers' wages are being artificially depressed and, instead, we should be paying a little more for fruits and veggies.
FuzzyBlumpkinz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:12:27 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But if we pay a little more for produce, then everyone pays a little less to eat at restaurants. A little less on gas. Then servers, cooks, attendents, and oil field workers all get paid a little less because the companies have to maintain profits. So then they end up having low wages. So years down the line we raise wages for them, which puts pressure on other industries to compensate.
Raising wages for farm workers is not a solution, all it does is cause inflation. Even raising the federal minimum will only help the lower classes for a couple of months before the entire economy begins to inflate at once. Then it's back to square one again.
Basic_Becky ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:32:24 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I see. So you are FOR keeping the lowest among us at the bottom by keeping their wages artificially deflated so the rest of us don't have to pay a few cents more for a lemon? That's your solution?
FuzzyBlumpkinz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:03:08 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When you assume you make an ass out of you more than me. No, my solution would be to implement profit margin caps, restricting the amount that business owners can mark up their products in comparison to production cost. That way the problems of inflation and low wages never appears to begin with.
But then the conservative capitalist circle jerk would have a tantrum over big government, communist, bullshit rhetoric and my ideas would never make it through the house.
Basic_Becky ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:17:34 on January 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But why stop there? Why not give the means of production and agriculture solely to the government, allow them to truly set the price and profit margin and have everyone reap the benefits according to their need, from each according to their ability?
FuzzyBlumpkinz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:38:46 on January 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Soviet Russia tried it. Didn't work too well. We need to move our economic regulatory policies left from where they are now to protect the lower classes, however we can't go too far left or else the economy will inflate, stagnate, and wither. Further right than it is now and we'll continue a cycle of market crashes and recessions following bubbles of growth.
There's a sweet spot just left of where we are that we need to reach for.
Basic_Becky ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:41:18 on January 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, I was being a little sarcastic. Your plan is way too left for my likes.
Big_Test_Icicle ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:52:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think you understand capitalism very well.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:25:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Big_Test_Icicle ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:05:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think you understand what it means to artificially manipulate the market either. I am not trolling but the stuff you are saying is not what you think it means. No one is artificially manipulating the market. It is a matter of supply and demand. There is a demand for workers and the illegal immigrants are supplying the demand. It is just competition. If legal workers were accepting of doing the work/receiving the same pay and benefits that the illegal immigrants do then we would be hiring legal blue collar workers.
ComradeGibbon ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 19:36:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Read a guy describing trying to do so field research for grad school by taking a job picking. He said unless you've been picking all your life you can't keep up. The work is too hard for you to physically condition.
Mahlaandovah ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:02:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do you know where you read that? I would like to check it out. I've been picking apples and various other things since I was 15. I've gotten quite good at it, especially apples. I pick them (every year) with my Mexican brother in law (who has been doing this all is life) and I keep up with him well. Though he is still a bit faster. Haha
Alpha433 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:49:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Or machines where possible.
CATS_BOOBS_GAMING ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:04:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And people bitch that mexicans steal our jobs. LOL Who wants to work the fuckin fields
that-lol-chick ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:13:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not even mexicans want to work in the fields.
Duckbilling ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:04:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
On this episode of Mexican pickers .....
ALexusOhHaiNyan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:44:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah. That was my second thought after seeing this again. Beautiful commericial - but it plays to core american myths and nostalgia like a finely crafted country song.
It's Mexicans and Agribusiness now. And the occasional Joe Salatin, who deserves to be heard.
st0ric ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:09:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Holy jesus christ, I have been doing some work picking lemon and lime in Queensland, Australia and I get $140 per 500kg of lime and $160 per $500kg of lemon and that can be done as fast as 4 hours for one bin. These guys are getting ripped so hard.
Knowatim ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 17:32:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Illegal immigrants and their children.
thegroundislava ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:15:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Invited by the US and given temporary visas in exchange for hard labor. Look up the US guest worker programs since the early 1900. Specifically the Bracero program along with the current H-1B and H-2A visas.
Basic_Becky ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:18:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Um, the people here on VALID visas wouldn't be who Knowatim was referring to, as s/he specifically said "illegal immigrants and their children."
Not trying to attack you, just wanted to point out that he did say "illegal" because all too often, people on both sides accidentally forget the "illegal" part and that causes a lot of confusion. I know that's probably what happened here, so like I said, not trying to attack.
thegroundislava ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:39:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
why did he bring up illegal immigrants and their children when Hispanics were mentioned? He's obviously grouping those two terms together. I mentioned visa programs because people forget that we invite people from Mexico and south America to work jobs people in the US wont
Knowatim ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:00:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most Hispanics that are not native to the USA are illegals.
Basic_Becky ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:40:49 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd have to find the original post you're referring to in order to answer the race thing ... and I haven't had coffee yet, so that's not happening. /s
The problem with programs like Bracero is we have people come in on perfectly legal visas and then just stay illegally when their visas expire. The visas also do precisely what having illegal workers does, which is why Cesar Chavez and Delores Huerta were AGAINST the Bracero program.
onedoor ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:00:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Poor logic. This is like going to the gym with your bodybuilder friend and trying to keep up with him, noticing how he does things much easier than you. Go to the gym and plan your improvement and you'll get much, much better. You do farming regularly and build up your body and you'll be doing it almost as easy as the farmer.
If you really want to, you can do farming.
boyo13 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:51:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lol I see "poor" farmers driving around in their 50 thousand dollar trucks all the time here
RageousT ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:20:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
He rebels against the Union to keep slavery legal for you?
Or am I misinterpreting CSA?
beakerx82 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:33:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
http://www.localharvest.org/csa/
boxsterguy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:16:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Mechanized farming for commodity crops (corn, soybeans, wheat, etc.) is quite a bit different than farming food crops. My dad and brother farm something like 2500 acres between the two of them and occasionally a third guy to drive a semi during harvest. Still backbreaking work, just of a different sort.
ok2nvme ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:55:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's not the American way.
You're supposed to plug-up your planter and then collect the crop insurance when nothing grows.
littlemsmuffet ยท 262 points ยท Posted at 17:04:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a someone who grew up on a farm, thank you. It's hard work, I spend my summers at home at the farm to help now that my parents are empty nesters.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:42:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Are you the farmer's daughter? ;)
littlemsmuffet ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 17:56:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Damn right I am. 5th generation farmer and proud of it. I can't wait to move out of the city and get a small hobby sized farm. I miss it a lot.
IamKAR ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:58:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I bet you can kick some ass, most girls that I know that grew up on farms could kick a jocks ass easily.
littlemsmuffet ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:39:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Haha not anymore, but I use to be quite muscular and athletic.
PlainPlainsman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:51:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But you can still out work any man here in Amarillo I'd bet. I miss home. Grew up on a farm, ended up at college in the city. I miss fresh air.
littlemsmuffet ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:27:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I doubt that, haha, but thanks. I miss it too. I feel like I'm being spoiled here in the city. It's been 8 years and we will move back to the country hopefully this year.
PlainPlainsman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:04:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
College sucks
littlemsmuffet ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:22:48 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, it doesnt suck. Lol stay in school kids
videogamescience ยท 143 points ยท Posted at 18:23:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Farming is easy. Corn literally grows out of the ground!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5RrGFBbbSY
Mooptimus ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 22:40:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fuckin' 'ell!
YamwhateyeYam ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:01:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My favorite sketch
magnora7 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:31:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am glad I did not have to post this myself. Never has it been more relevant.
Shivadxb ยท 574 points ยท Posted at 17:39:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Grew up on a farm and agreed
But
It's an honest to god living with little bullshit and lying.
Frankly right now I'd swap my bs office work for a dawn start and a day of back breaking physical labour that's cold wet and smelly. Animal husbandry and crop management, fixing fences and the never ending list of fix it jobs has frankly never been so appealing to me.
I have no illusions about the hours and pay of farming but my plan is to get back to it as soon as I can. I'm done with desks and coworkers, targets and managers
[deleted] ยท 123 points ยท Posted at 18:38:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Same here. Didn't grow up on a farm but worked one from 12 until I left for college. Never thought I'd ever want to do that shit again, but after a year in an office I am just longing to spend all day squatting over a row of strawberries.
beckymegan ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 23:17:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I feel you, I miss certain aspects of farming but FUCK I AM NEVER PICKING STRAWBERRIES AGAIN.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:05:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ah, comrade, I worked a summer picking strawberries.
ChipBaskets ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 03:15:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Farming technology has come a long way. The days of squatting over strawberry rows are over.
whtestflntboy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:34:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Omg I did not expect that.. haha brilliant!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:05:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well I never thought I'd see the day... You kids don't know how easy you have it! shakes stick
Enlogen ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 18:46:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm so glad that people all have different tastes in terms of what they want to do and that there are people around who think
sounds at all appealing. Because I do not. I don't think I could ever be a good farmer, or enjoy it. But it's a pretty useful thing for people do be able to eat, so some of us are always going to be farmers. It's good to hear that there are people who enjoy it more than office jobs.
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 19:56:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When animals are jerks, they usually have a good, simple reason for it. Weather is unpredictable no matter what, you can't expect it to behave. People, they are loose cannons, I'd rather be in nature and getting real sunlight. I wake up early no matter what and I hate to sit still, some people are very well suited to such things. I'm so glad we all have different tastes, too! I am not currently farming, but I hope to work toward being on the land full-time in the long run.
It seems so wrong to my husband and I that he only sees the kids during the day two days a week, at least on the farm we could pull together and would be together more. It's hard work, but it's so fulfilling on a lot of levels.
Ibbot ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 21:06:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Until this happens, and all that's really needed is technitians to keep everything working. Anything a farm worker can do, a machine will be able to do better.
Universeintheflesh ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:24:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Anything you can do a machine can do better. A machine can do everything better than you!
Thinks_Too_Logically ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:04:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know, I think I can be depressed better than a machine can.
Werewolfverine ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:55:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No it can't!
Universeintheflesh ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:07:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes it can!
Ibbot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:45:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not yet, and certainly not yet in a cost effective manner. But one day, yes, and the population in general will be better off for it, and able to use the machines to do things we can't do today.
Dent18 ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 18:39:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I feel like in a job like that where you have complete autonomy, no matter how hard the work is, it's not as bad as having to listen to people and shit
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:11:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When you work for yourself, you do something because it needs done and you need it done. When you do something at a regular job, there's sixteen layers of stupid in the way, and retarded reasons for doing so. At least, that's the way it seemed to me.
n1c0_ds ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 18:05:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is it? I've seen so much tax evasion, drug growing and shadiness in my brief exposure to farming.
Shivadxb ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 19:44:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There are always exceptions but that's individuals, I have clients who deal arms to dictators and should but don't pay billions in taxes.ba few farmers and some weed are small potatoes
Nickyjha ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:24:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
wut
BURT_MACKLIN_F_B_I ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:00:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
murica'
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:03:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Shivadxb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:53:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If I was an attorney I'd have shot myself by now
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:03:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What the fuck is your job?
Shivadxb ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:54:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I consult. You'd be surprised how many big multinationals have extremely dodgy business practises in the developing world and work willingly with the worst governments on earth to screw the people and make a profit
Dumbo_da_Irrelephant ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:36:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can I work with you on your farm?
727Super27 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:12:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm with you there. It really brings clarity to the difference between 'work' and 'a job.'
Elbiotcho ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:12:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A job requires responsibility, screw that!
Jess_than_three ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:56:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Preeeetty sure farming requires a hell of a lot of responsibility...
Elbiotcho ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 03:35:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Preeettyy sure picking strawberries doesnt require submitting an individual development plan to outline how you plan on upskilling in the next six months or listing your contributions for the past year on why you think you deserve a better raise than your coworkers.
727Super27 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:38:59 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That sounds like the very definition of what differentiates work and a fucking job.
Neurotic_Shitposter ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:08:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Who did you sell your crops to?
The reason I ask is because I hope to open an indoor farm one day. I have no illusions that it will be easy, and my biggest concern is who I'm going to sell crops to, and what crops I should grow. I'm sure what I'm learn through attaining an MBA will allow me to figure this out, but I'd like to hear from an actual farmer (or ex-farmer in this case).
Shivadxb ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:49:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So much to say but I'll leave it at these. We grew crops for feed for our own stock. Indoor farm, choose a highly profitable niche product like herbs or some shit or fruits. You won't be able to work on scale so work on margin.
Farming can and has been improved by business methods being applied, it has also killed farming in a way and never forget farming unlike many businesses is vulnerable to a whole raft of different risks from disease and pestilence to a sudden change in consumer behaviour.
It sure as shit ain't easy but fuck it go for it
Neurotic_Shitposter ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:05:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you. Yes, it absolutely doesn't seem like an easy task. I belive I'm capable though as long as I'm determined and work hard towards it. Plus I have a very close friend of mine who dual majored in ag/be engineering, and he told me he's interested in joining me if I pursue this. Indoor farming eliminates many risks associated with traditional farming (low risk of contamination, bugs, diseases, there's no need for pesticides, crops can be rotated quickly, etc), but they come at high setup and maintenance costs.
I really don't know if I'm going to pursue this route (I'm 25), but I like the idea of running my own operation and producing something useful. Plus, it gives me a goal for business school (otherwise, I may have trouble motivating myself).
Thank you for your input, fellow Redditor. I choose not to shit post you.
Shivadxb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:48:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks and good luck
mrplattypus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:19:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Contact buyers for different companies or they will contact you. Just get your name out there.
mzackler ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:20:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You're taking an MBA and expecting it to teach you how to be a farmer? What school is this?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:14:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Good luck, man. Wishing you the best with it.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:49:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Did you see the u/WeirdAsianKid's comment? http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/42anwo/what_does_everyone_think_they_can_do/cz92kcz
inksmudgedhands ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:02:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can imagine that dealing with cows must be easier mentally than dealing with office politics.
Dooblesnott ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:19:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, and oddly enough, there's a lot less bullshit to deal with.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:57:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cattle are complete assholes.
Shivadxb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:47:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well you can turn round and tell a cow to fuck right off and punch it without much happening.......well until it decides to tell you to fuck off and it tramples you or crushes your ribs against a wall. But yeah office politics isn't really a thing
Sam_Strong ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:34:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's very true. I grew up in a super rural area, so most of my part time jobs as a teenager were various farm hand jobs. I've done pretty much everything, and now I'm at uni, but even during holidays I do relief milking for a guy a few hours drive away. Honestly, farming is one of the most satisfying jobs. Yes, it's early mornings, muddy, dirty work, and it can be back breaking work, but I don't have to deal with shitty customers, or pain in the ass bosses. I have a job to do, and I do it. I'm productive, and at the end of the day, I can say that I have really achieved something. And it pays reasonably well.
Shivadxb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:51:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This, for me it's the satisfaction of a job well done, a real job providing real worth. Add in that not much beats lambing or calving
Saemika ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:52:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Two sides to every coin.
zimmy1909 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:09:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Dwight Shrute? That you?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:54:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just remember the crippling debt you'll be in
Shivadxb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:52:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
At this stage I don't give a fuck anymore. Most farms run on debt as do most banks and corporations, if you can keep the cash flow reasonable then the stress is mostly internal and can be managed
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:05:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm actually in the middle of harvesting ryecorn right now, what you say is so true
11spartan84 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:08:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am in the same boat my friend. Hopefully I will get back there in a few years. Best of luck to you.
Shivadxb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:53:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You to
Unknownanswer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:07:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Agreed.
clearedmycookies ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:41:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Besides farming, what about being a mechanic, plumber, or electrician?
Shivadxb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:56:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a living nah, I'm ok at all of those but realistically they require training to be a paid professional, at 40 something I can't be fucked retraining and whilst they offer so,I'd work with your hands I'd rather till the land
[deleted] ยท 143 points ยท Posted at 16:38:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
People think they are the next arteezy when it comes to farming. You do it for yourself, Artour does it for his family.
Dexaan ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 18:10:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My name is Artour Babaevsky. I grow up in smal farm to have make potatos. Father say "Artour, potato harvest is bad. Need you to have play professional Doto in Amerikanski for make money for head-scarf for babushka."I bring honor to komrade and babushka. Sorry for is not have English. Please no cyka pasta coperino pasterino liquidino throwerino.
DolphinFeces ยท 56 points ยท Posted at 16:44:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
r/dota2 is leaking
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:31:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Alexwolf117 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:30:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
swindle?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:38:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
what do you consider "top 2%"
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 23:04:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Does evil exist?
Nahaz, a university professor, challenged his students with this question. Did Slahser create everything that exists? A student bravely replied, โYes, he did!โ
โSlahser created everything?" Nahaz asked.
โYes sirโ, the student replied.
Nahaz answered, โIf Slahser created everything, then Slahser created evil since the anti-meta exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then Slahser is evilโ. The student became quiet before such an answer. Nahaz was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Slahser's way was a myth.
Another student raised his hand and said, โCan I ask you a question professor?โ
โOf courseโ, replied Nahaz.
The student stood up and asked, โProfessor, does a meta exist?โ
โWhat kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never tried starting with 6 mangoes?โ The students snickered at the young manโs question.
The young man replied, โIn fact sir, a meta does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider the meta is in reality the absence of an anti-meta. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and the anti-meta is what makes a player credited for creating a new meta. Absolute meta (-322 degrees F) is the total absence of memes; all matter becomes inert and incapable of theorycrafting at that temperature. The meta does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no anti-meta.โ
The student continued, โProfessor, does dankness exist?โ
Nahaz responded, โOf course it does.โ
The student replied, โOnce again you are wrong sir, dankness does not exist either. dankness is in reality the absence of memes. Memes we can study, but not dankness. In fact we can use n0tailโs prism to break memes into many copypastas and study the various sources of each meme. You cannot measure dankness. A simple copy of pasta can break into a world of dankness and illuminate it. How can you know how dank a certain space is? You measure the amount of memes present. Isnโt this correct? Dankness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there are no memes present.โ
Finally the young man asked Nahaz, โSir, does a meta exist?โ
Now uncertain, Nahaz responded, โOf course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of manโs inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but meta.โ
To this, the student replied, โMeta does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Meta is simply the absence of Slahser. It is just like dankness and anti-meta, a word that man has created to describe the absence of Slahser. Slahser did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love that exist just like memes and the anti-meta. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have Slahserโs way present in his heart. Itโs like the meta that comes when there is no anti-meta or the dankness that comes when there are no memes.โ
The professor sat down.
The young manโs name -- Artour Babaev.
Yelov ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:45:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
WE ARE FARMERS BUM BUM-BUM BUM
not_blathers_the_owl ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:11:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For Babushka!
K3TtLek0Rn ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:15:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Artour farms for potato. Papa and mama need potato.
brianchenito ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:38:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My name is Artour Babaevsky. I grow up in smal farm to have make potatos. Father say "Artour, potato harvest is bad. Need you to have play professional Doto in Amerikanski for make money for head-scarf for babushka."I bring honor to komrade and babushka. Sorry for is not have English. Please no cyka pasta coperino pasterino liquidino throwerino.
JCelsius ยท 60 points ยท Posted at 16:13:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My father and I have kept a pretty sizeable garden, maybe two acres, since I was young. We also kept pigs and chickens, which we slaughtered and processed ourselves. I don't think any of it is hard really, it just requires a lot of work.
rachface636 ยท 65 points ยท Posted at 16:47:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think people tend to define "hard work" by how much effort it takes, even when it's menial tasks.
Most people seem to think that farming is growing food so the Earth does most of the work, and they can sit on the porch doing shit and waiting for harvest. As someone who has an 'easy' job that involves A LOT of menial tasks I can say for a fact that is still hard work. I have to have the patience to not throw the computer out the window just because I have to fill out four spreadsheets for everyone one piece of information.
pomlife ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 17:19:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sounds like a prime candidate for automation!
derp_derp_derp ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:05:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Best of luck justifying the development and maintenance costs for it
pomlife ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:05:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You think it's outside the scope of a quick Python script?
derp_derp_derp ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:18:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
At a business where there are no programmers, and in two months the format of one of the spreadsheets changes, and 3/4 of the staff is reluctant to learn new processes when the old ones 'work just fine', etc...
SummerJam ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:06:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Automation is gonna happen wether you like it or not, development costs will go down enough for it to be profitable, very soon
derp_derp_derp ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:13:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes I'm sure the era of self maintaining software that can write itself is right around the corner.
Evisrayle ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:59:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaprogramming
The future is now! We're only getting better at this shit!
derp_derp_derp ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:01:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep and it will be delivered by drones wearing VR goggles on their way to mars.
I do like that this thread is happening within the context of a 'What does everyone think they can do but really cannot' post.
green_meklar ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:49:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Technically, it's the Sun that does the work. The Earth just provides the raw materials.
Enlogen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:48:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sounds like a job for PowerQuery or some equivalent. There are lots of ways to make it so that you can update one sheet and have the others pull from it on refresh! PM me if you want advice for your specific situation. Put in a little work now to save a lot of effort over time!
rachface636 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:55:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh don't worry a lot of our stuff is coded in Excel to do just that, but I work for a huge company and some things need to go over seas and I don't get a say in the procedures. Thanks for the offer of help though!
Emperor_of_Cats ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:29:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
We had a smaller garden. It was probably just a bit smaller than a standard basketball court.
It was essentially a few days of hard work. You know, plowing, planting, running lines for green beans, picking, etc. Sure, some of those days it's 100F out with 95% humidity and it feels like you are going to die, but you have to get all this shit done today because everything just dried out and the forecast for the next few days is looking like rain. Uncomfortable, but my dad (and later me) could usually knock out a whole bunch of work in a few hours.
After that? It was mostly just sit back and relax. Maybe throw some dust on the crops, sometimes water it during a drought, tie up tomatoes when they start to set.
Really the hardest work was processing the food.
peesteam ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:12:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Farms around here are like 600+ acres in the low end.
JCelsius ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:23:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well yes a commercial farm but someone just growing their own food can get by with an acre or two of garden.
peesteam ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:23:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
If the food is for yourself that's called a garden. That's not farming.
peesteam ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:27:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The leading comment was about farming. Your experience with a family garden is not germane.
JCelsius ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:03:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
No, the lead comment was about people who want to move on to a farm where they can grow food for themselves. Perhaps that comment was wrong in using the word "farm", but it was quite clear they were talking about a relatively small plot of land where you grow food for personal use. Given the context they were talking about precisely what I was talking about.
If anything wasn't germane it was your comment about 600+ acre farms.
EDIT: In your own latter comment you even say "If the food is for yourself that's called a garden." The lead comment says
So by your own admission, they were talking about a garden, which is exactly what I responded with.
peesteam ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:21:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit is hard
2kewl4yew ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:38:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
2 acres is nothing in farming though. The average family farm is 231 acres in the United States. I don't know if you know anything about pesticide usage, but that's tough. You can't just follow a label. Farmers are chemists. There's so much more then tractors also. Combines, harvesters and the works. They constantly break down. So farmers also become mechanics.
JCelsius ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:57:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Perhaps I should have clarified. What I think /u/puffytailcat was talking about seemed to be less of an actual farm and more of a garden or a homestead. They also said essentially that growing your own food is hard. That's why I chimed in.
Having said that, you're right.
Jer_Cough ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:05:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I grew up around farms and worked on several before I left home. It's the hardest work I've ever done and am glad I had the opportunity to learn what truly hard work is. I'm not saying farming sucks because that's the wrong word. It's a yardstick for whenever I started feeling whiny about any other gig I've had through the years. At least I'm not baling hay or clipping pigs.
hezod ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:39:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My family has a cattle ranch. They grow all their own feed, sell feed to other ranchers, and they grow enough produce to feed themselves, including freezing and canning for the winter. They rarely grow any produce in surplice enough to sell. That said, the size of their "garden" is simply massive. To grow produce for profit is a staggeringly difficult, space and time consuming endeavor. I have a house in the city, and a relatively large yard where I have a vegetable garden, some raspberry bushes and a small herb garden. In the gardening season, I have to spend 15 hours a week tending my veggie patch and I don't grow enough peas, carrots, beans, radishes, beets, lettuce, cucumbers, etc to meet my family's needs, even into October. Also, because I have no guaranteed way to make my garden dog proof, I can't grow onions, leeks, chives or garlic, or my dog would poison himself.
So, yeah, professional farming isn't for everyone, but everyone needs professional farmers.
WhompWump ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:59:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This. People think they're good at farming but dont realize that having around 100 CS at 10 minutes is standard for a pro. Most pubs cant even get to 60 in that time
Fittritious ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:52:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's not really that hard to grow your own food. It's hard to grow food for lots of people, but for yourself, once you figure it out it practically does it by itself. Honestly!
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:35:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Fittritious ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:40:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
An acre where? In the desert? Ohio river valley?
Don't get discouraged, you can do it if you'd like to.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 18:10:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Fittritious ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:36:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Okay. How are you doing at providing your own food from your home?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:47:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Fittritious ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:44:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hey, that's awesome! I sincerely mean that, I believe that if everyone did as best they could, doing what you are doing, we would all be way better off.
I wasn't arguing with you, by the way. That "one acre" thing gets thrown around a lot, I think maybe from John Seymour's book, or maybe it's as old as the hills?....Anyway, I don't disagree, although you would need to be somewhere pretty awesome to be able to pull it off with only an acre.
But, we are way off track on the OP, which was professionally, and I agree that that is hard as heck. But, the reason I jumped in here, is that the comment I replied to was about growing your own food, and I just wish there were more people saying "you can do it!" than "you can't because of x". Even a dang Meyer lemon tree in your uptown apartment would help. Lemons for your drinks, one less lemon on a truck from where ever.
Keep growing stuff everybody.
justahominid ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:34:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's relatively easy to grow food for yourself, but not to supply yourself with all of your food through all seasons, much less deal with financial realities as well.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:54:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
LOLYMAD ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:17:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How big is your farm? We live on a farm and just grow the same size crop every year and just wait until it's the right time to sell.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:31:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
LOLYMAD ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:44:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ah, fair enough. Where you at? Do you store much in silo's? or do you sell straight away.
We're a 4 person farm on 5000 acres but we have a lot more machinery than I imagine you do, so it probably balances out. We're out in Australia too... Never been to any other farms outside here... what's it like?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:55:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
LOLYMAD ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:56:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wow, we don't really have farmers markets here.... And we don't grow stuff that is picked by hand either, I can imagine that requires a lot of hard work to pick.
We grow sorgem, wheat, etc... and just use silo's.... Cool to know how others run their farms :)
Tubaka ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:19:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
OH GOD you're bringing back memories of corn detassling.
Wet cold mornings
Hot itchy afternoons
And the two hours it took to get back home and shower while itching everywhere
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:17:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:21:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:45:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:02:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:52:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Graduate student studying plant genetics. Which parts of organic are better for the soil? I can see the use of manure being good for soil health, but their pesticides aren't any better for the soil, and they use more of them. Surely they have a big negative in the fact that Round-up resistant plants have allowed most conventional farmers to go no-till, while I assume organic farmers have to till and cultivate to get rid of weeds, which causes runoff and soil loss.
My uncle is a large scale farmer and has told me stories of farmers he knows going organic and having very weed choked fields. He never heard what sort of yield they got, but the corn plants looked pretty rough, so it couldn't have been very good.
Also you say: organic, when done right. That's the problem, just because they're organic doesn't mean they're doing it right. I'm sure there are many producers who cut corners, especially in the portion of organics that come from China.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:10:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I also forsee a push away from both to a different system. I predict that if things go well transgenics will remain for pest and disease resistance, herbicide tolerant crops will decrease as image/pattern recognition algorithms get better and much of the weeding can be done by automated drones. If harvest can be sourced to drones as well, then inter-cropping could become a legitimate strategy. I still think we will have quite a few monocropped corn and soy fields, but transgenics again will probably help with nutrient use efficiency. One possible way this could happen is getting pathways from perennial grasses that move nutrients to the roots for winter into corn, sorghum, and other monocots, and a dicot version into soy and other dicot crops.
Thangka6 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:27:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd like to settle down on a farm, but one that's surrounded by other farms, and hopefully a farmers market too. That way you can have your isolation, and get your food from the source! Otherwise, I'd probably starve to death on my own farm.
jdman929 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:43:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But I was SO good at farmville!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:50:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hell, after working in a greenhouse (we grow Canola/Wheat/Rye/Barley for seed mills) I've come to the conclusion that all the armchair survivalists who think they can just 'start farming' if there was an apocalypse are completely fucked. I work mostly with Canola, and even learning about that has been pretty interesting. It's not my field at all but it's still cool stuff to learn, in terms of self-pollinating things, etc.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:57:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wow growing up in a rural area I don't think I've met anyone around here that thinks farming would be easy. We're all intimately aware that it's fucking hard and your going to be tired every day of your life if you work on a farm. And yet some of the kids still stick with it. It kind of amazes me.
beckymegan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:23:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most of the "farming is easy" (that you'll see above) is people from generally suburban/urban backgrounds with a garden.
X_Trisarahtops_X ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:10:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just having a fairly small allotment plot takes up a significant chunk of my free time and my boyfriend helps work it too.
My grandad had a dairy farm before he sold up and retired. He didn't go on holidays. He was up at 4am every single day, working all day, hard. And didnt go to bed until about 10pm. For thirty years. And my grandma would be doing the same.
As a result, these two late 60/early 70 year old folk are in better shape than most people I know who are my age (I'm 25), and that's not because farming is easy.
426763 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:19:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Can confirm, my dad's a farmer. For father's day a couple of years back, we planted some pineapples. I felt good about it, it was a nice experience but the harvest was shitty (because I did something wrong.) Dad didn't blame me though, still a nice time spending it with him.
jbrittles ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:41:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well it's not really a farm if it's just for you either. That's just a large garden.
TheLivingLegends ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:42:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I grew up in the city for most of my life. And have been around farmlands in most places, but never actually did any farm work. After the summer, I didn't do huge farm work but I did enough to feed cows, and that alone was incredibly hard, and milk them a bit. It isn't the most difficult to a degree but it certainly wasn't at the same time, especially for one with hardly any labour skills.
Inevitably that made me respect farmers 1000 times more than I already did, and I already did because they supply a lot of food and other products. I would never be able to do it for a living. I would probably get use to it, but it would probably be the death of me.
D8-42 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:42:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There's a show on Danish television about a guy doing that, (Bonderรธven, "The Redneck") think it's been going on for at least 6-7 years if not more now, he bought a farm and just slowly started getting everything fixed and up and running, really cool to follow him.
And as you say it's amazing how much work is actually involved in getting stuff like that up and running, whether it's just enough potatoes for a couple of people or taking care of animals or fixing broken tools and such.
He fixes old tools, get help from friends and spend all day planting new stuff and things like that, it really just is his life now running that farm and it's awesome.
ironburton ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:44:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Farming is for sure hard. But growing food for yourself and family is quite easy.
When I met my husband I lived in England with him for the first year. His parents had an old green house they were using for storage. I cleaned it out, got some grow bags, and few big pots and grew a ton of stuff. Planting everything took a full day and it was hard work. But after that we would just go water the plants and weed once a week. It was great.
thedankbank1021 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:06:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most people don't realize that farmers typically have a four year college education and an 8 year apprenticeship. And many of them still fuck it up.
spyderreddit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:09:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
https://youtu.be/Dgnlf6-VXTs
Greyboob ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:22:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I've actually spent the last 10 years farming in the Texas Panhandle it's some hard ass shit man, so much more goes into it then what people would assume. Especially in the Panhandle because we don't have enough rainfall or local rivers to use conventional irrigation. All our water comes from large sprinklers and those things are a pain in my ass. To be a successful farmer today you really have to know your shit. It's a lot more then just plant some seed and watch it grow.
ringhkyl000 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:26:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When I say farm, I don't literally mean a farm... like, I want to live in a ranch home with a few cows and some land. I don't want to grow crops and shit. Lol.
Nightthunder ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:49:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you! I'm from a heavy farming community, and everybody and their dog works everyday of the week. My grandpa has been a farmer and rancher his entire life, and that man is the definition of a cowboy. Nearly every bone in his body has been broken, he's in his late sixties, and is the toughest person I know. Last year he was attacked by a bull, who shattered his hip replacement, and cracked his pelvis, along with busting up a few ribs. They drove him an hour to the closest emergency room, and today he's out doing rounds. He may never get to retire. Farming is a life long commitment, and those behind where our food comes from are always underappreciated.
liteblite ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:54:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Are you sure? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pDTiFkXgEE
BlondedAmbition ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:55:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My grandfather was a farmer and busted his ass to provide for my grandma, mom, and aunt. Due to my grandfathers hard work he made sure my grandma is well taken care of in his death. She has Dementia and wants for nothing because of him. His hard work allowed us to make sure she gets the best care, and she seems to be happy.
I guess it's true about what they say "farmers live poor and die rich" at least in my grandfathers time.
earnedmystripes ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:03:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
and only the very large operations are financially sustainable anymore. I grew up on a 200 acre farm in the 80's. My grandfather had made a nice living off of it for many years but even in the 80's it wasn't sustainable for a family so my dad became an engineer. The only wealthy farmers around here anymore farm several thousand acres a piece and raise a lot of livestock.
McCrazyFish ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:13:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Apart for my parents (now) my entire family is farmers, you will never know how glad I am I only have to work on the farm(s) four months of the year. It's brutal, both my uncle and cousin have severe back problems due to hard labour and being kicked by bulls. To be fair my uncle is in his sixties but my cousin is only 28
mrplattypus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:24:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Love it when the city people come and try to make it. They quit after a week.
Bwbowe ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:31:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Similarly, sports or golf turf management. It requires a lot of agronomic expertise. I work for a minor league baseball team and constantly get questions like, "So do you just now all day?" On a normal game day I'm at the stadium 12-16 hours. During the "off-season" I still have a forty hour/week schedule at least. Growing grass and managing a field doesn't just happen, but when we do our jobs well that's the illusion that is created.
TheReason857 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:33:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Dude worked on farms a lot as a kid fuck that job it's back breaking work. I got decent pay but good lord it's hard.
wtjones ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:37:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Aunt bought a "hobby" farm when I was a child. 400 acres of hay and 90 dairy cows. "Hobby" my ass. She needed an army of young slaves to run that spot. Unfortunately I was young and worked like a slave. Farming is fucking hard.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:40:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
/r/preppers
BiddyCavit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:52:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Farming looks like a doss. You get to be outside in the fresh air all day, you get to spend your day with animals, and farmers rack in a good bit of cash as well. I have lots of farmers in my family, so I could get into it handy enough, but the idea of waking up at 6am every single day, shoving my hand up cows' arses, and selling my animal friends are three things I could never do. Plus, life-threatening machinery? I'll leave that to the professionals.
Tubaka ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:54:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I might be a little biased given I work on one but ya this was my thought too. Especially if you want livestock because then you're basically tied to the farm day and night until you get fed up with them and eat/sell them. Also the barrier to entry is amazingly high. If you want to retire onto a farm you'd better have a couple hundred thousand dollars laying around to afford a quarter milllion dollar combine a barn to house it. Not to even mention the practical knowledge you'd need to keep it running for more than a week
Socks192 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:01:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah but its rewarding as fuck, though it has to be something you truly enjoy or it turns out to not be worth it. My grandmother use to run a small farm on her property, it was a lot of upkeep but very fun. I learned a lot too, not just with animal and plant care, but also with carpentry, some pluming, and a whole set of basic handyman skills that have benefitted me through the years.
target404 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:02:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not big on the mother fucking farm, but I'm pretty sure I can do a regular farm.
arnoldswollenegger ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:11:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can tell you first hand how hard it is to grown my own garden. I've been doing it for about 8 years now and there are xxxxxx number of reasons as to why something didn't grow. But the hardest thing ever is keeping the soil neutrally balanced pH wise because of certain variables in my region. My family has been farming since I was before my dad was born. They all have experience and I learned as I grew up. The hardest thing is growing fruit trees. We have 200 and something trees on our orchard and its a huge pain in my ass to prune them every year.
But other than that and other stuff I actually enjoy it. Its kinda therapeutic.
Floppie7th ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:12:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Farming is hard, I agree - I grew up on a farm. Growing a significant portion of your own food, however, is pretty easy.
Growing all your own food would be hard, I would imagine. I'm not sure, I do not and have never raised any livestock, we were all veggies/berries growing up.
TagRag ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:25:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But.... You CAN do that professionally. It's not easy, but you can
thisshortenough ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:34:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't want a farm. I just want a load of farm animals. But I know that I'm not responsible enough to own a cow.
grassfeeding ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:36:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a farmer taking a break from dealing with the blizzard currently....I appreciate this. I raise certified organic cattle, pigs, forages and grain crops on about 1,000 acres.
Back to opening up the road to the pig wintering barn.....
SimpleFNG ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:51:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Or the isolation. God help you if you got live stock. The farm becomes your life, you loose friends, family and pretty much your social life.
username9k ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:00:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh man, my dad and I plant a small 6x12 vegetable garden every summer and holy crap the amount of maintenance that thing requires is staggering. Watering, de-weeding, picking, pruning, anchoring vines... It's a great hobby but I can't imagine the amount of manual labor that goes into a full blown farm.
RufusSaltus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:25:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Except that farming used to be something that the literal majority of people used to do professionally, it's just that the practices have changed. Changes in technology have made farming more technically complex and allowed for larger farms, also requiring additional organization. Beyond that farming was often more communal and organization shared by the community. The economics have also made subsistence based farming an impossibility. The labor was more physical, though, so in that regard it was harder.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:27:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Throw seeds on dirt.. Water seeds on dirt.. Seeds on dirt grow.. Pull former seeds from dirt.. Eat pulled former seeds from dirt... Seriously, how hard could it be really? /s
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:52:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But Matt Damon did it on Mars! I'm pretty sure I can shit on potatoes and make more potatoes.
astrodominator ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:56:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Relevant https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_pDTiFkXgEE&itct=CCkQpDAYACITCMuLydCDwcoCFQhgfgod64wNnlIUZmFybWluZyBicml0aXNoIHNraXQ%3D&gl=US&hl=en&client=mv-google
mctastee88 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:16:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Even if you can handle the work, have fun making ends meet.
RAND0M-HER0 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:54:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep. Grew up on a chicken farm with my grandparents, my grandma spent HOURS maintaining the garden and taking care of the chickens, and my grandfather was a plumber and would come home and fix the chicken fences, build stuff for my grandma and her garden if she needed... Real honest work, but I loved spending time with my grandma that way. Too bad I don't have a green thumb like she does
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:18:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
According to my uncle, a farmer for over 20 years, farming is easy. Like driving a Cadillac through a field he said.
thewolfsong ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:32:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly I just want to get rich enough to settle down on a farm and then hire people to do all the hard work.
TheWingers ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:02:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I live in southwest minnesota, can confirm.
Hewhodont ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:08:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As someone who grew up on a alfalfa farm it's not too hard to learn, but the equipment needed to get started is super fucking expensive.
TwoOrMore ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:15:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Commercial farming is fucking hard, but I've done a fair amount of research and having a substantial personal garden for your own food seems very doable as a sort of part-time job.
jon_hobbit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:26:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lol I couldn't even take care of a simple hop.
:( so much for profits
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:55:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's extremely stressful too.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:55:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have a 5meter by 35meter veg garden. Not easy
cultured_banana_slug ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:15:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's the difference between farming and gardening. Farming involves acreages of land, huge investments, a lack of sleep, and profit margins so thin you could shave with them. Also a fear of rain. Not enough. Too much.... and unseasonable frost. Fuck unseasonable frost.
Gardening is fun and rewarding and involves tomatoes. Lots of tomatoes.
People think farming is like gardening only bigger.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:34:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Am farmer, can confirm it's hard fucking work for little or no reward.
ketchup_popcycle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:50:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
can confirm. grew up on a farm, most people have to clue what it takes.
covenofovens ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:10:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Had grand illusions of starting a farm, and did a 6 month internship at a diversified goat dairy with pigs, sheep and a 350 head poultry operation for the holidays. The end of that first day, when you are beyond the edge of exhaustion, it sinks in - you have to do the exact same thing tomorrow. and the day after.
Became a butcher instead. So much easier.
hitler_squirrel ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:19:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sure is hard applying for subsidized loans, applying for subsidized crop insurance, collecting cash subsidies, AND selling on a market protected by tariffs and buy american clauses.
83923678 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:51:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do you ever struggle to sleep at night knowing industrialization ruined society and the dedication to agriculture and survivability (oh god its underlined in red what will i do!)? If we burned all your books and academics human life would be better off without you or people similar to yourself.
QWERTY-POIUYT1234 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:59:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's like the old saying: "It's amazing how much work you can get done in one day, when it ALL has to get done..."
HighClassPenguin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:15:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah no thanks, I know how hard it is. Waking up at like 2 or 4 in the morning alone deters me away from a dream like this.
tylrmhnn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:08:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Having worked on a dairy farm in my early teens, I don't know why anyone would want to get into farming. It's back breaking labor and unless you can trust someone to run your farm, you don't get days off. The only positive is fresh milk out of the bulk tank. I'll take my garden and beef from the butcher.
spudmonk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:51:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah my pos 1 carry can't farm for shit
IRunIntoThings ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:59:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Perhaps it's because I live in a city, but I have not met a single person who have told me they think they can farm.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:18:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Every white kid from the suburbs think they should move into the middle of nowhere and grow their own food because capitalism is evil. The places they usually want to move to are really optimal for growing anything other than marijuana usually.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:45:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I grew up on a farm, and this is part of the reason I left. I'm never going back. SCREW THAT.
cactuscat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:36:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was super interested in homesteading for a while. Then I realised I don't like doing my garden work when it's cold and decided to stick with the desk job for now.
benhadhundredsshapow ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:31:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Organization is hard and the labour is even harder especially if you are just starting you won't have all of the efficient machinery. Real tough for sure.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:11:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
pomlife ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:20:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well, that and the impending threat of automation. Along with truck driving, farming will be one of the first fully automated industries.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:45:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Livestock farming is hard work. Growing corn in central IL is about the easiest job there is. 2 weeks for planting, and 2 weeks for harvest. Most guys have other full time jobs because once it's in the ground there isn't all that much to do.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:11:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Got a 20 by 20 metres garden and 60 apricot trees behind the house, we're 5 in the family and can confirm this is already a ton of hard work and planning.
83923678 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:48:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
ALMOST LIKE HANDLING A REAL JOB EH GTFO OFF THE SOCIAL PLATFORM YA FUCKING GOVERNMENT PEICE OF SHIT YOU DONT KNOW SHIT YOU GREW UP IN A WORLD THAT DIDNT EVEN KNOW WHAT TECHNOLOGY IS
Saoren ยท 1269 points ยท Posted at 14:33:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
commercial arts of various sorts (professional illustration, graphic design, product design, etc)
lowercase_j ยท 541 points ยท Posted at 17:59:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be more specific: designing a logo.
Everyone and their mothers think they can do it, and that's the reason why there are so many terrible logos out there.
[deleted] ยท 251 points ยท Posted at 21:29:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nah it's easy! Just make a circle, put a big X shape in it (perhaps made of two crossed arrows), then in the four quadrants put your company's initials and an icon or two like a pine tree or a wooden pipe.
[deleted] ยท 74 points ยท Posted at 21:48:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And call it Lumber & Twill. It's a small design firm.
Rept4r7 ยท 46 points ยท Posted at 00:55:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
http://hipsterlogogenerator.com/
Dockirby ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 04:13:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
http://i.imgur.com/qPuJUWL.png
I wonder how many people they get to pay. I could easily see people actually liking the output of the site.
tinsel014 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 02:14:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
you forgot the establishment year in small text! "est. 2008"
AlwaysSlightlyPeeved ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:17:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's exactly what I was thinking of doing for my business logo!
rasputine ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:46:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not a fan of the east india company?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:59:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It still exists.
rasputine ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:13:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, the east India company was dissolved in the 1800s. That's a new company. Only old trading company still kicking is HBC
akuun ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:59:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And the there are those logos that are literally the company name in bold, underlined Arial.
maddog2000 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:21:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And that is why there are so many bad designers in the world.. lazily following a trend which will render their unoriginal design dated in no time.
SenorVajay ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:41:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I seriously don't understand this logo. A local brewery uses this type and it was the first of its kind I had seen. I've done about a million quadruple takes because it seems that every business conceptualized after that uses the same style.
Pinecone ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:50:57 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Take a square. Round out two corners. Put an icon inside.
If you're a charity make a circle of people holding hands.
zeldazonklives ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:00:58 on February 16, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Literally just shuddered in hate. Fucking hate hate hate. I hate
FixedDecay ยท 50 points ยท Posted at 21:26:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My dad tried to make a logo for when he started his own business. He showed me the end result which he was pretty happy with.
It was done using WordArt and was a rainbow circle of words. I made him hire a professional designer.
extropia ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 21:58:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The simpler the logo, the harder it is to design an excellent one... and the easier it appears to amateurs to create.
RedSpikeyThing ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 20:35:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh god, my mom used to come up with slogans for companies. She would spend hours and hours coming up with the perfect handful of words that convert what the company wants. And then they would say "the other writers charge $x/word, why is your rate so high?"
kookaburra1701 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:59:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ugggh. And then when you're known in your circle of friends for having an art hobby, they all want you to design a logo for their business venture-du-jour. And they won't listen when you explain why, as someone with training in OIL ILLUSTRATION you are not the person to go to for logo designs.
ARRRRRGH
...I may have a few pent up frustrations from this.
lowercase_j ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:19:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wait, wait: it usually gets worse. They want it free of charge, for like next week, right?
mommarina ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 22:18:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am a web designer. If your logo looks shitty, your site will look shitty.
Arancaytar ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 01:20:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If they won't hire a professional artist, they probably won't get a professional web designer either. Their site will look shitty all on its own.
bombertom ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:46:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And now all those people are on 99designs. So called because 99% (what am I saying? 99.99% more like) of all submissions are completely awful in every respect.
atomic1fire ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:46:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I had a graphic design teacher who consequently made me hate graphic design.
"Work harder at it"
"Your client will never be reasonable, so keep drawing"
"Make like 100 little squares that are all different, pick the one you think would look the best, then redraw that 100 times larger, then have the shop teacher criticise it and offer input because you're basically free labor."
Not his exact words, but my teenage memory of his words.
He made me appreciate that any kind of art is easy to look at, but hard to actually do.
The Shop teacher ended up picking someone else's logo for the thing they needed a logo for, but I wasn't mad.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:28:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Designing a logo or designing a good logo?
ofoot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:56:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[total n00b here who just recently got inkscape to try his own hand at shirts]: The simpler, the easier it is to recognize. See: Adidas and Nike logos. That shit is just text and simple shapes. Yes, I know those shapes probably took forever to be made, but you get my point.
clearedmycookies ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:46:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, it is easy. But to design a good one, that's hard.
mrerikmattila ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:18:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How about that all caps Algeria font?
Notaroadbiker ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 00:42:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I just feel bad that someone actually paid money to go to school for it.
Borgismorgue ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 00:28:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The truth is that no one can do it. Every logo ever designed is garbage.
HotSwat ยท 143 points ยท Posted at 16:04:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I try my best to learn about as much artistic disciplines as possible, but when I got to graphic design I was overwhelmed by unexpected information. Typography alone is a subtle science.
sightlab ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 22:24:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've been studying type for years, I hand draw type for a lot of projects, I'm pretty confident in my typography skills and I still don't consider myself a type guy. There are dudes in my office who can take my best client-loved efforts, change a couple lines here & there and make me realize that my effort was...meh, not bad. People think graphic design is just putting stuff here & there, but there is a science to it.
akatherunt ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:13:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Typography was something I was like 'yes! I love fonts!' then, by the end of it my brain was numb because I had no idea everything that went into it.
zeldazonklives ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:06:47 on February 16, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's unexpected information all the way down!
Seriously, though, I've been doing this for years and there's still so much to learn or improve vastly upon.
The sad thing is, though, that the first 60% of what there is to learn takes 5% of the time and makes you 99% as employable.
Effimero89 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:45:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've learned with type to just go simple
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:55:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
sprogger ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:33:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
K er ni n g
eatCasserole ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:20:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've dabbled in various types of art and design my whole life, worked in the sign business and have a graphic design diploma, and it's quite painful the things I've been trained to see. I've heard "if you really hate someone, teach them about kerning," and I have to admit, that's not a bad idea.
xorgol ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 19:35:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, most software I come across handles typography pretty decently by default. Not that it isn't hard, but software helps a lot.
luckierbridgeandrail ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 01:35:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Not downvoting, but I can tell why others did: most software that most people come across handles typography very poorly. I'm out of date, but last I looked, the only things available that could be made to do a decent job were InDesign, Scribus, and TeX.
metal_monkey80 ยท 316 points ยท Posted at 16:53:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
nothing is worse than seeing what gets up-voted to front page on the art subs. NOTHING!
ETA: I just want to clarify that I have no problem with artists posting their work. That's great and critiques are an important step to developing as an artist. However, Art doesn't exist in a goddamn vacuum - there are principles that make art "good" or "bad" that can exist independently of subjective enjoyment. But for some reason /r/Art and the like are places where any bit of disagreement or even critique can be met with a weird hive mentality of "I LIKE IT AND IT'S MY OPINION SO YOU'RE WRONG".
[deleted] ยท 242 points ยท Posted at 18:03:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I seriously can't follow any popular art subs or anything of the like. It's all incredibly amateur high school work or photographic realism that makes it to the top, or some edgy watercolor splash paintings that try to desperately look energetic.
Sanster ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 23:47:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Elephants with butterfly wings for ears, painted with watercolor. Photo taken at an angle, showing all of their pencils.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:24:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Omg stop. My friends think this kind of stuff is real art and this is what real artists do.
metal_monkey80 ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 20:15:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's always watercolors being thrown around a page, isn't it? Cue 18 people commenting something like "take my money please".
RJWolfe ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 22:01:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
http://i.imgur.com/E2IMJ6Y.jpg?1
right now on /r/art
hotweels258 ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 22:36:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Coming to a Nandoโs near you.
PM_ME_CAKE ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:35:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cheeky.
Humbleness51 ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 22:49:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That actually looks really good in my eyes. I may not be a professional artist, but I don't need to be one to enjoy the pieces I like
larryjerry1 ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 07:23:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
There's music that can sound good and be enjoyable to people, but that doesn't make it "good music."
In music, there are certain objective things people can look at to determine if something is "good" or not, such as chord progression. There's a fair bit of pop I enjoy listening to, but somebody who understands music can't really say that pop (as a whole) is objectively better than something like progressive rock, jazz or classical music. The complexity and diversity in the music itself just isn't there.
But that doesn't mean you can't enjoy it. It just means that there are certain categories it doesn't do as well as other music. Classical is better musically speaking compared to ska, but I still listen to ska because it's fun and enjoyable to me.
Humbleness51 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:30:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fair enough, but I don't think you can objectively judge some music to be better then others. You can objectively judge the rhythm complexity, the chord progression, the build ups and what not, but at the I end of the day, nothing makes one song or genre better then another, because music is, at it's core, subjective. You can give a monkey a simple math equation and he can solve it (as math is 100% objective), but you cannot give a monkey a piece of rip-your-dick-off Mozart masterpiece symphony and seriously expect it to judge it to be better then the latest pop song by the biggest brightest newest boy band made up exclusively of 14 year old males. There's simply nothing to objectively judge music by. Although I don't think you should have been down voted
larryjerry1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:49:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
My point was that there is something you can objectively judge music by.
Music theory isn't purely subjective. There is a methodology behind what makes something sound good. Sure, there is some subjectivity to what people find personally enjoyable, but if you study music theory, even at a super basic level, you'll learn that there's a very logical set of baseline principles for writing music that will sound pleasing to the ear.
It sounds snobbish, but people who haven't learned it just don't understand it. There is a lot of objectivity to what makes something sound good. I only have a super, super basic understanding of music theory but I know enough to say that music being only subjective or having nothing objective to judge by is simply not true.
This video could help a bit. The chord progression they demonstrated is very popular, because it universally sounds good, and a person with a trained ear would be able to hear how prevalent it is across music. But it's very generic and uninteresting.
You could write a song only using that chord progression and it can sound pleasing, but it'd be very boring and lazy from a musical perspective, i.e. not good music. That's what I mean.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:22:06 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You're just not right. I hold a degree in classical composition, obviously there are lots of ways to describe music very specifically but you're insane if you think these terms are used as an objective measure of quality. The idea is totally absurd.
The principles of music theory are descriptive, not prescriptive. They aren't hard rules and they've virtually all been broken by composers widely considered genius.
larryjerry1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:03:07 on January 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
That's a good point.
I didn't word it well. I'm not saying there're hard rules of writing that all music must live by, but that there are objective things like ACE being a chord or resolving a note that sound good. Music is very mathematical when you look at the frequency of sound and how notes mesh together. There is objectivity to music, it's why a toddler banging on a piano isn't good while a properly written piece with melody and rhythm is.
I brought up chord progression not to say "this chord progression is objectively better than that one," but more to say "variation in chord progression is probably better than no variation at all." Not a hard rule, you probably know something that doesn't follow that rule that is extremely good, but as a basic guideline that will probably work out well. Though I suppose that depends on what you value in "good music," so it's still subjective in that sense.
Like, Whip/Nae-nae is catchy and a lot of fun because of the dance attached to it, but I don't think I'd call it musically good or interesting.
metal_monkey80 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:25:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Take my money please!
sidenote: this isn't even quite what I was talking about initially. I remember a year back when some guy was blowing watercolor around to make pokemon portraits and shit was being lost left and right by redditors.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:51:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What is wrong with it? I think it is beautiful
RJWolfe ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:53:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nothing. I never said anything bad about it.
It's quite beautiful.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:50:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I couldn't pull that off, can't be that easy to make
TokyoJokeyo ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 02:59:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's okay to be impressed, but "I couldn't pay pull that off" is an awful standard for whether something is good.
justinpyne ยท 46 points ยท Posted at 21:03:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My digital concept art for a webcomic I'm working on got removed for being "fan art," and that's when I really lost it with r/art.
the_undine ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 02:32:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can I see?
justinpyne ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 11:16:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Alright, I've got a handful of illustrative paintings online that I'm allowed to share. Iris, hoverbike helmet, and Randy. This last one is the post that got nailed for supposedly being fan art. I'm not in charge of writing for this project, only the illustration. We're a four man team and we've been running ourselves into the ground with pre production for a little over a year now. It's an exciting feeling to be getting close to publishing online.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 20:01:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Say what you will but the giant cats work was fucking awesome.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:56:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's why I subscribe to /r/doodles. It's nothing more than time wasting stuff. Although. Some are pretty cool.
juixe ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:16:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone thinks they're Basquiat
Brio_ ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:11:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Are you saying that stuff isn't art?
NotActuallyaStalker ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 22:56:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
how many realistic monochrome pencil drawings of emma watson does the world need though..... its the same shit all over instagram as well, a lot of people seem to feel the need to draw realistic pencil portraits of actors/musicians and update with a new pic every 5 pencil strokes... its not interesting and doesnt say anything. Its just a reproduction of what exists already. just my thoughts on it anyway, i think its a fad!
Brio_ ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 23:37:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I personally think it's shit as well but it is no worse than what a lot of people call "real" art.
nandhuco ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:00:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Real" art also is a portrait of Emma Watson, but with a background.
the_undine ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:39:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Eh...I don't know. When it's just a straight up copy of someone else's art/photo, that seems worse to me. It wouldn't be impossible to collage other photos together to create something new-ish...like drawing all of the James Bonds together (or something like that) instead of just drawing individual actors/head shots all the time. But yet it's always skilled but thoughtless copying of someone else's art.
[deleted] ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 20:21:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's art it's just really awful, cliche, super easy to make, devoid of uniqueness art. It's like pop music. It's just not the best place to browse I feel as a professional painter.
Pilipili ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 21:24:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Which places do you like browsing then ? Honest question.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 21:29:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly, Facebook and artists' actual websites. There are good groups on Facebook such as Hi Resolution Painting Close-ups, Today's Inspiration, and a whole host of others. The websites tend to be great because the work uploaded is of high quality resolution. If nothing else a simple bing/flickr search tends to be great for photographs of a particular person's work. Also.....galleries. Museums. Anywhere you can find professional artists of all kinds posting tends to be very good i.e. old Conceptart.org
Pilipili ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:33:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks for the recommendations.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 21:37:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No problem! I mostly learned about different artists just from working with artists that recommended me stuff, but stuff gets spread around really fast when you have a lot of art buddies on Facebook and the likes. Artstation.com is probably the best website to see entertainment/commercial art work that I know of right now.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:33:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Jenny Edwards oil paintings. She's amazing
hotweels258 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:39:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like your comparison is a disservice to pop music. While some of it is bag, a lot have artistic merit.
Brio_ ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 21:05:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yet we're talking about that art an not your art, so I guess it wins?
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:17:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I'm sure all that talk is generating the watercolor splashers a moderate living wage. rolls eyes
Brio_ ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:23:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Are you saying something isn't art if it doesn't produce an income?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:27:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I never said that, I'm just saying there's more merit to someone's work if they're experienced and make their living through it rather than making edgy cliche splash paintings for karma.
Brio_ ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:33:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most artists who make money in the world are making money through shitty advertisements or generic entertainment.
[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 21:36:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And that's still a lot more merit than the stuff being posted on /r/art, since most of that is an extremely non-professional low level version of what would be seen in those settings.
Brio_ ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:41:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Making money in art doesn't give it more merit.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:10:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You seem a bit confused as to how easy it is to work professionally as an artist. The gulf in class between financially successful artists and those who aren't isn't as great as you're making out.
Your disdain for /r/art is weird given you linked to http://www.conceptart.org as a better site and half the shit on the front page could have come from a teenagers DeviantArt account too.
Besides that if you're talking shit about artists and pointing to specific examples you should show something of your own.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:10:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I said the old conceptart.org, not the current. I wouldn't post my own because...well, it's a Reddit account that I want anonymous. You don't have to believe my work is good. Regardless, half the art on the front page of CA.org in its modern phase is still miiiiiiiiiiiiles ahead of what you would see teenagers doing on deviant art. I think if you had any real experience in illustration/design especially that you would know that.
And yes, the gulf truly is large. There are not many financially successful artists compared to the amount of people posting work on the internet, and especially /r/art. I doubt the vast majority even make minimum wage by comparison to the hours they put in. Out of my graduating class of about 200 art majors, only about 3 of us make a living off of it and that's not uncommon. Maybe 2 of us make above 30$ an hour equivilant/selling paintings for 2k++.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:12:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hyperbole, I mentioned DA for that reason (mostly teenagers and starters). Point was ca.org is a funny reference considering the shade you're throwing at /r/art, there's shit on both, makes your animosity to one and not the other seem weird.
My comment about financial success was geared more at graphic design, you're probably right about selling paintings specifically. But if you know the basics of Photoshop or Illustrator and you have a degree chances are you can get a good paying job no matter how shit you are.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:01:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I definitely don't like the modern CA.org so I'm not sure why you think I have animosty towards just /r/art.
Yeah I know nothing about graphic design, I'm talking illustration and gallery work
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:24:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My mistake then, I lost track of the comment chain and typed that part more in response to the original comment (mentioned graphic and product design as well as illustrations).
Us graphic designers definitely have it easier getting work. It's insane how many times I've seen web based companies grab someone from a completely unrelated role and "train" them from scratch to be the in-house graphic artist.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:39:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I've seen graphic jobs being hired in every city. If you tried to find illustration or entertainment art related jobs outside of Seattle/LA-irvine area/Austin/NYC (in the states) GOOD luck. Where I come from in Orlando there'd be a max of maybe 5 jobs ever hiring for that kind of thing without guaranteed pay.
praise_lord_GabeN ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:06:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What's the point of drawing photorealistic shit when you can just take a photo? God I hate shit like that.
Boukish ยท 33 points ยท Posted at 21:15:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well, you can photorealistically depict things that don't and potentially can't exist, which means you can't just take a photo of it.
And in order to get that good, you have to do a bunch of renderings of things that do exist, possibly using real photos as reference. And as you go through this practice, you get asked the annoying question "jeez, why don't you just take a photo?"... for the millionth time. That's after you've toiled for a long time and reached a level of competence where people could even complain that you could have just taken a photo.
Yamez ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 00:35:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wait wait wait...what you're saying is all those photorealistic paintings and drawings are a way of developing the technique necessary to broaden your capabilities as an artist. Does that mean that technique is important to art?
nandhuco ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:01:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A photo-realistic painting is very different from a photo (Not talking about people copying photos tho)
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:21:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What are your thoughts on the /r/imaginarynetwork?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:09:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Seems like a lot of good work is being linked there.
kingkobalt ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:39:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So what do you think is good? Serious question, I'm actually just curious.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:08:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My favorite illustrator is Justin Sweet and my favorite painter is Isaac Levitan. I would consider both of them phenomenal.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:43:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
or something fucking videogame related
deedlede2222 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:03:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There's this guy on the front page of /r/ImaginaryHorrors
shudder
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:14:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
UGH this annoys me so much. I feel like when most people think of "skilled artist" they think of photorealistic pencil drawings of faces and those 500 color, no regard to color theory "I'm So RanDOm aNd THeSe aRe thE coLorS Of my MiNd" color splashed everywhere paintings. It's like that melted crayola shit that people think is art.
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 21:12:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Rick and Morty Meet Hermione [Watercolor](NSFW)"
[deleted] ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 17:32:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
metal_monkey80 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:18:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's very specific - any examples? I get turned off enough by comments that I rarely make it to an article (willingly).
stanfan114 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 20:21:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The most popular art on Reddit is either optical illusions or basic design or draghtmanship. Post most 20th century modern art and everyone criticizes it from a position of ignorance of its history and claim a child could do it, based on a tiny photo on a website with bad color reproduction. Reddit hates anti intellectualism unless it is art.
Psudopod ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:05:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh thank fuck I'm not alone in thinking that... Great, it looks realistic, crisp, clean, dramatic lighting, sexy, feminine, with just enough nsfw to get a little attention and a tag without being outright pornographic. But... I just described half the shit that gets real popular, so what's the point in even clicking the link if I already know what I'll be seeing? What is new here?!
MisterTwindle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:52:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you only want to see completely original works I've got some bad news for you.
Psudopod ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:10:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I just want to see works that do not fit that narrow definition. They is why I unsubbed from the art subreddit and went to an art gallery.
Wow, it was like when things are not catering to reddit's shit taste I can actually get some variety. Wow, some of this work means something more than "I wish I could do character design for a video game but they keep telling me my sexy women are too generic!"
At a local, free art museum, I even saw a work that was realistic, crisp, clean, sexy, feminine, with just enough nsfw to get a little attention without being outright pornographic. It was also 30 feet tall, featuring a black woman, and placed next to portraits of kings in a similar realistic style and size. Intentionally imitating previous works, yet 10x more original than anything I see on /r/art.
MisterTwindle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:50:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What art subs are you following?
All the ones I follow are full of masterpieces people claim are armature.
metal_monkey80 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:50:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
ok - let's flip that question then...which ones are you following? I'm open to suggestions!
SanguinarianPsiionic ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:39:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I guess I should be happy that I'm uneducated because it lets me enjoy that amateur trash.
cassassa ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 18:33:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I work in environmental graphics and all the time we see companies going 'oh, we can do that easy!' And then slapping badly kerned, under sized text on the wall with some stock message about innovation and calling it a day. Yay team!
[deleted] ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 20:45:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My favorite is when people think that digital art is "cheating" because they somehow think that full blown illustrations come out of clicking a few buttons on Photoshop or something.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:05:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I hate this so much!! Or they place more value on some charcoal drawing with shitty fundamentals because it's "real media" and therefore takes more skill.
Like yeah, it's easier to make it look more polished in a shorter amount of time, but you can still tell if there are glaring mistakes in composition, perspective and anatomy. Also, I might even argue that simple drawings are harder on a tablet since it's so slippery and you're looking at a screen and not at your hand. I'm actually really impressed when someone does a great sketch exclusively digitally rather than scanning something in first.
artifex0 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:46:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's like arguing that a novel is more impressive if the author wrote it with a quill pen instead of a word processor.
The things that make art impressive or not have nothing to do with how tedious it was to create.
TokyoJokeyo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:01:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, but surely you can have a preference for a particular medium?
artifex0 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:17:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You can, but if that preference is based on how difficult a medium is to work with, then you're judging art based on how patient the artist is, not on how much skill they display or how impressive the piece is on it's own merits.
punny_moose ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:14:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm just a high school hobbyist but I find that digital is even harder. Throwing a bit of paint on the canvas can easily look aesthetically pleasing but with Photoshop you have to know exactly what you want. In my case at least.
Saoren ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:32:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
in some ways id say its harder, while you have more freedom to clean up mistakes and change things, in many ways digital art tends to lend itself to perfection. while this differs based on the type of art being done, if say, a vector based artwork is being done, inaccuracies can show very easily
[deleted] ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 18:24:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep. As a graphic designer, people try to basically use you as some conduit who magically knows how to use Illustrator to make the thing that's in their head. Except the thing that's in their head looks ugly and won't be legible. Whenever you do design work, you get about twenty opinions from everyone and their wives, mothers, dogs, second cousins etc - and none of them are designers or have any idea what they're talking about.
sprogger ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:36:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"never design by committee"
lilaspy ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 19:32:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh god, yes. And even when they hire a graphic designer, they don't listen to advice but wonder why the finished product looks like a soggy piece of bread thrown on a window. ITS BECAUSE GOLD TEXT LOOKS TACKY, SHERYL!
Iwouldratheryounot ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 20:29:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
internal screaming
IT LOOKS BAD BECAUSE YOU KEEP MAKING IT TOO BIG FOR IT TO BE READABLE FROM TWO HUNDRED FEET AWAY, AND WHY THE HELL IS THAT TEXT CENTERED WHEN THAT TEXT IS LEFT-ALIGNED, OH MY GOD, WHY IS IT GREEN AND RED AND TEAL WHAT ARE YOU DOING, NO, NO, NO, THAT 3D TEXT PRESET LOOKS AWFUL WHY DID YOU ADD FIFTEEN THINGS THAT DON'T NEED TO BE HERE
"What was that?"
"Nothing."
"Do you have a problem with it?"
"No. I was just saying that it was really eye-grabbing."
blivet ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:08:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is why I got out of design work. The people who were paying for my expertise wouldn't listen to me. I got sick of producing crap under duress.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:00:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There's no winning. If you make it exactly to their specifications and it's godawful ugly, it's your fault. If you realize it's gonna be ugly and make some changes and they don't like it, it's your fault.
alienseti ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:35:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Adding to this: Making comics, graphic novels, or manga. You really can't make it in the comic world by just doing pin-ups (excluding cover artists), and no, your story about the cyber vampire mafia isn't going to be a hit. And no, you're not going to move to Japan and make manga. I've seen one white person with the skills (both art and language) necessary to be a successful manga-ka, and she can't keep up with the deadlines that manga readers are used to.
metal_monkey80 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:31:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
this also need to be a PSA in animation programs. I know you like Naruto a whole bunch but it's just not going to happen.
Saoren ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:08:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
a few things to add to this. first although here have been manga published by Americans, chances are you arent going to ever really publish a manga in say a magazine like shonen jump. also its a lot of work, even if you were able to do this you have to work pretty much all the time. i would suggest if people wanted to try, make a webcomic and if its popular enough get people to pay via patreon or something. however, professional comics tend to have a group of people working on it rather than just one person alone.
Centurycat ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:48:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This so much.
Being 'creative' on demand is so hard especially with tight deadlines. Just because you like to draw in highschool and think that you're good doesn't mean anything professionally and commercially >_<
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:39:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Our office regularly hires for not only graphic design work, but also marketing, social media development, and web development.
Everyone lists 'Photoshop' and 'Illustrator' as their job skills. Yet, once they're asked about those applications' most basic functions, they try to bullshit their way through as if we don't know any better. It's actually gotten so bad that we've had to develop pre-interview tests that test their knowledge of Adobe apllications' interfaces.
Saoren ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:26:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
do you not require them to show any previous work they have done?
NotActuallyaStalker ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:51:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
you mean my realistic monochrome pencil drawing of emma watson that i've posted on instagram showing 100 different stages is WORTHLESS?!?!? :O :O
Bluudxhound ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 22:54:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Freelance illustrator, I absolutely hate getting appointments when the first thing they ask is how much it will cost. It's like, I have no idea, I don't even know what I'm making yet. And then they want a sizeable piece done with an expensive medium of something I don't even enjoy drawing. And THEN have the audacity to offer me $50 for a piece that would take 30 hours to completely finish.
TL;DR: being an artist is annoying as fats
Saoren ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:15:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
that sounds irritating. people should realize its a job. do they think they are paying for like a caricature at a fair or something? i haven't seen your artwork but assuming you are skilled, spending 30 hours on an illustration should make the commission price worth several hundred dollars at the least
Bluudxhound ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:18:59 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. And it's even worse when they want a really nice frame to go along with the piece.
Dent18 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:49:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
me irl
I probably suck, but the amount of shitty, shitty logos I've seen makes me feel like I'm probably okay.
And my friend paid me $100 to make a logo for him, so...even if I do suck, easy money.
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 19:07:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
xorgol ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:36:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously, at $10 per hour that's 10 hours. A good logo can take much longer than that, and a professional should expect more than that.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:46:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
xorgol ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:22:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know, it's just the minimum wage in my area, to underscore the absurdity of the expectation.
thekittenisaninja ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:17:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
None. lol
SpaceKatAdventure ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:04:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can confirm, I'm studying to be one right now, a graphic designer. So many people come in and just put a pre made filter or pre made anything on there work. They think they are good also! Then would ask how to zoom in everyday on Photoshop...
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:20:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
everyone and their mother tells me they wrote or illustrated a picture book. as someone who is a professional illustrator (13 yrs) and knows how hard and intellectually challenging and underpaid and unsustainable it is as a career, this makes me cringe every time.
leonprimrose ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:47:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Worst part about being in the arts is that if you're like 99% of the rest of us that are you'll never feel like you're good enough to be. You just keep trucking
akatherunt ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:11:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Graphic design degree and still cannot do most graphic design stuff very well myself. I can tell bad design from good design but shit if I can come up with original ideas myself.
fckdup ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:48:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is a frequent theme at http://ClientsFromHell.net
Aarcn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:56:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's how art schools make their money too. They encourage people who really shouldn't be spending that much money and time into it.
Teachers are encouraged Not to fail their students.
GreatEscortHaros ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:57:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh god this sh*t is hard. Best I've ever done was design my mother's tattoo, she wanted a tattoo to combine her love of all her children(I have two siblings) into one tattoo. I sketched up a ton of little designs and by pure fluke I came across a lovely little conglomeration of our middle initials that formed this little heart. Now my mom wants me to design my dad a tattoo for his heart surgery survival and I've just been completely stumped for designs.
This stuff is not easy.
ornionbelt ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:22:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is it okay if I'm currently trying to get a degree in one of them (product design)?
Saoren ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:03:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
im just saying its hard. i feel like people from an outside perspective tend to have the idea that any type of art based jobs are inherently easier even though it couldn't be further from the truth
ornionbelt ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:16:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I definitely agree, honestly sometimes I don't feel like people see my course as something to be taken seriously when really it's tough as balls sometimes.
angryundead ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:33:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've been writing HTML and designing my own web pages for close on 15 years now and I have yet to make anything other than ugly shit. I know how to make most anything happen on the page but I have none of the ability required to forge that into a design.
That's why I do it for fun and not for a living. I'll stick to building the integration pieces.
topright ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:59:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Powerpoint. Fucking powerpoint.
Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should.
SirToastymuffin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:04:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I never realized this until after my sister went through DAAD education. That shit is complicated, they think about such minor shit that you would never have come to mind but in reality makes a massive difference.
Typography scares me.
oh-hidanny ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:06:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Actual product designer here.
Yes, you can be a professional product designer. And get paid for it, you just have to be good enough to do it. And during school put in more hours than there are in the day.
lunapuff ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:50:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The New Zealand flag is in the process of changing at the moment. A committee consisting of media personalities chose the final designs, and most of the nation loves them because they know nothing of good design. New Zealand will end up with a tourist dish-towel flag design because no designers were involved and they are asking Joe Public what they want
MattMakesPhotos ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:39:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not photography either. People these days make business facebook pages calling themselves a photographer before they even learn how to use their camera.
Not only do they do a rubbish job for the clients they bring in, they distort views held by the community about the professionalism of photographers in General.
They also frequent groups wanting to buy a new camera because their photos aren't good enough. In reality they could have any camera in the world and I'd take better photographs with a starting dslr kit or even a point and shoot with manual controls. It's the photographer not the camera.
rj20876 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:01:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think I could pull it off if I had talent or work ethic.
SmytheOrdo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:27:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I laugh so hard at people who laugh at commercial arts degree majors because "anyone can do it".
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:49:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes I agree, design is almost like a science. I studied two years at university.
Fiftyletters ยท 573 points ยท Posted at 16:17:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
After reading this thread I've realised I actually can't do shit.
Anthony_Padildo ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 20:23:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well, I haven't read any comments about brain surgery, so I guess I should be fine.
JuDGe3690 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 00:01:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Dr. Carson, is that you?
corytheidiot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:06:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, he is the ASSMAN!
Edit: 5th time is the charm.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:58:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's a good thing. Now you realize you actually suck, and now you realize how much work actually goes into being good at something.
hjf11393 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 00:37:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This thread is also full of jobs I never assumed I could do - I don't know anyone that thinks writing/art/film is an easy career choice. It is sometimes seen as a "fun" career choice but if you tell someone you want to get into any of the Arts fields they will usually remind you how tough and competitive it is.
I was expecting answers like janitorial work or sewage. Hell, I was awful at sweeping until someone showed me a proper technique.
notLOL ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:57:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There's demand for that
AlonsoFerrari8 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:09:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think that was the point
goplayer7 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:57:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
are you going to sell your toilet then?
ThatPersonGu ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:48:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, let me go back to posting on Reddit for that dank karma.
Oh wait, that's hard too.
83923678 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:54:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
cause u a bich dog
Wilreadit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:43:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am a whore, karma whore.
columbus8myhw ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:08:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, the correct reaction is realizing that you can't do all of them at once.
Wilreadit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:43:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Same for me too, except I am good at being good on Reddit.
Waxgains ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:31:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know this person, you, is/are capable of doing at least one thing. What can you do?
theploop ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:20:13 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You must be very constipated.
Fiftyletters ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:44:32 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You have no idea man.
Kevin_Wolf ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:56:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nobody can. It's OK.
stackered ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 02:40:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
After reading this thread I realized most of this shit is, in fact, not that hard to do. Writing a book? Not that tough if you are a good writer and have the passion, and free time to put into it. Acting? Some people are naturals and can jump into it, I know I'm pretty good. Web design? I'm a programmer but there are a shitload of easy to use and learn frameworks that can get a beginner to publish a site in less than a day with tutorials. Law? Lots of it can be done without a lawyer, given proper diligence and research - I've saved thousands in lawyer fees by doing my own paper work. Etc. I'm not saying everything is easy, but this list is basically a list of things that people can learn about and practice on their own, or are things you can be "a natural" at, like art or acting, etc. So really, there is good reason why some redditors find this stuff easy.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:11:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
stackered ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:19:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
nah, I just think the reason why most things that are posted here are because they are things that you can do professionally without as much training as others, just by having the talent or intelligence. plenty of people have broken into these fields without a background in it, which is why lots of people think they can do all this shit. In general, any random person can't go and make a piece of art but there are definitely naturals out there with no training that can. I'm not saying professionals who have trained for years aren't better, or have a massive edge, or make up 95% of the each respective field, I just think the ones listed are way more susceptible to a person being able to do the work, than say, a surgeon or something.
techniforus ยท 3414 points ยท Posted at 13:00:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Acting is more difficult than it looks. When it's well done it looks so natural it seems like it'd be easy. The problem is we're all wired to spot fake performances and hone that skill to varying degrees. It makes the job far more difficult than it seems on the surface.
tibsalot ยท 1648 points ยท Posted at 13:48:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
There's a certain tone that people don't realize they have when acting. They think they look real but in reality they over dramatize words and sound like they are reading from a script. It's so difficult to be convincing.
VforFivedetta ยท 930 points ยท Posted at 15:22:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You also run into problems from the opposite direction. Some people try to mumble and grumble their way to realism, but there's no point if you can't be heard/understood. Especially on stage.
countvoncastro ยท 692 points ยท Posted at 17:50:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There is also a huge difference in stage acting and acting for a camera.
stage acting is way overdone, so you can see and hear everything, and it feels normal at your distance, as where cameras need a lot less and movements and tone are much less dramatic, but come across natural as well.
[deleted] ยท 33 points ยท Posted at 20:42:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Some can do both, like Ian McKellan, Patrick Stewart, Benedict Cumberbatch, Alan Rickman, David Bowie, etc.
magnora7 ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 21:37:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I see Ian as more of a stage actor who happens to also be good at TV, he still always has that "stage presence" and the voice to match in my opinion. I think Stewart is a little more dynamic. I guess I've never seen Stewart on the stage though
countvoncastro ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 21:54:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You actually can really see the stage actor in all of those peoples performances. We just tend to like the over the topness of those people, so we let it go.
Al Pacino probably should have been a stage actor.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 22:02:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Scent of a woman could have been a play. Glengarry Glen Ross was a play before it became a movie.
Can you imagine the Godfather Trilogy as a play?
hungry4pie ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:50:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You mean Death Of A Fucking Salesman?
MR_PENNY_PIINCHER ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:44:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No he means Glengarry Glen Ross.
They're two totally different shows. GGR is an ensemble piece, Death Of A Salesman is a character study.
hungry4pie ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:54:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I remember reading about the film/play on wikipedia that a reviewer or someone jokingly referred to GGR as "Death of a Fucking Salesman", presumably because of the heavy use of profanity and the similar themes of a salesman's career going down the shitter. I'm hoping I didn't imagine reading that and that others also read that too.
MR_PENNY_PIINCHER ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:06:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's kind of a superficial read of the show imo but what do I know.
MiracleMan1989 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 00:05:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
He's in a show on Broadway now though I've heard it kind of blows. http://www.chinadollbroadway.com/
In fact, Al Pacino has frequently been on the broadway stage, particularly in Shakespeare, going back to 1969.
countvoncastro ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:14:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
TIL.
Im much more a musical fan myself. nothing really good hitting LA this year though :/
Wilreadit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:19:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fuck that, I think the same too, Al Pacino would have made a great stage performer. These guys are so strong in their delivery and screen presence.
If they are in the movie you will never over look them.
Unlike DDL and Gary Oldman, you won't know they were in the movie till the credits come up.
Arancaytar ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:23:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That list got kind of sad there...
Wilreadit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:14:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Bendthedick Cumherebitch.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:50:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Britishname Complicated
BeastDen ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:34:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The extent to which what you say is true is highly dependent on both the text & the stage itself. It was, for example, not very true at all for the acting I did in a ~90 person, 3/4 round theater. Even if I stood all the way up stage center I was still only about 6 feet from an audience member. There's a lot more you can do in a space like that.
But really we're all doing the same thing, it's just whether there's a big stage, small stage, camera, or something different, part of being a good actor is being mindful of the technical requirements of your performance like being on your mark & in your light, or speaking louder in a bigger room or being more subtle when the camera is on your face. The real difference is that one shot may only be a few seconds. If you're a lead in a stage piece you may only have a few minutes "out of character" in the whole 2 hours. There's a whole different type of preparation & stamina for that or for doing the same 30 second shot 30 times until it's perfect.
GonnaBeWounded ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:52:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Close, but not necessarily. It's largely dependent on the type of theater you're performing in.
CelticMara ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:04:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Historically, you can see in the early days of film how ridiculous and overblown the stage actors looked when attempting the transition.
I had the hardest time going from several years of camera work, back to stage work (slapstick comedy, no less!). It is definitely a completely different skill set, from "just think a thought, and the camera will catch it," to full-body contortions, projecting the voice from the diaphragm without shouting or straining... Every rehearsal was a workout.
Wilreadit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:13:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But you should still have a feel as to where the 'eyes' are. That way when you are done executing the 'dramatic' turn or jump you land in the field.
BabyCat6 ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 17:43:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Stage actors and film actors are so different. You get a film actor on stage and they don't have enough spunk or volume, but when you try to film a stage actor the move off frame or are to dramatic.
slotbadger ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:53:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's not that different. I would say that most film actors have also done it on stage. It's a lot easier to cross over from stage to film than it is to cross over from rugby league to union, or canadian football to american football...
AxmxZ ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:13:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The skillsets are different, true, but actors often do both.
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 18:16:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Idk, I've never been able to understand a word that Tom Hardy says, and he's considered to be a great actor. I like Hardy btw, I just can't understand him
AnIce-creamCone ยท 194 points ยท Posted at 15:44:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You can only do so much with terrible dialogue though... Just look at the prequel starwars movies.
[deleted] ยท 266 points ยท Posted at 17:16:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Has there been a reddit thread since episode 7 came out that does not mention the prequels and their dialogue?
Edit: 7, not 8. I can't count so good apparently
Kazath ยท 140 points ยท Posted at 17:20:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Oh my god, are you a time traveler.
Edit: I guess not. :(
Manleather ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:07:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is funnier now that he edited it back.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:39:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lol shit lost count
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:53:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I like the idea that you've been keeping one finger raised for each movie since A New Hope came out, and somewhere along the line you accidentally raised an extra one.
Educated_Spam ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:40:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
*count so well
jeffbell ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:20:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Episode 8: The force has breakfast.
AnIce-creamCone ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 17:25:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sue me.
darkbreak ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:19:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, Harrison Ford and Alec Guinness both criticized the dialogue of the Original Trilogy. Ford even said "You can write this crap but you can't say it." And Guinness admitted he phoned in his acting for the movies.
Indecisive_Bastard ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 09:00:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The low hanging fruit huh. "DAE Le presequels suck, le OT was made by god!"
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:09:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Did those movies have shitty budgets or did they just completely miss the mark?
AnIce-creamCone ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 16:14:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Neither. The writing and dialouge was just terrible at times.
https://youtu.be/hi5jjXTPtyY
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 16:22:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 16:25:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I bet Hayden can act. He auditioned for the role millions wanted, so it had to been good! But good actors suck with bad directing
AnIce-creamCone ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:27:56 on March 3, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think it had something to do with story changes that made his character a bit less intelligent and gave him less agency in how he acted each scene. Lucas is pretty infamous for insisting on certain pronunciations and on over-directing how each scene be acted. He also does WAYYYYYY too many scenes with both characters just kinda talking and walking around spouting exposition.
AnIce-creamCone ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:28:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So 3 movies, including one he isn't even in, are terrible because of his acting?? Ok.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:31:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
AnIce-creamCone ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:43:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Indeed.
KirkUnit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:14:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What about the beating scene in THX-1138? I was swooning.
iheartredditviii ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:51:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thats not even his real name.
nothanksillpass ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:27:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Actually the complete opposite - it kind of shows what happens when given an endless budget and free reign
spritanium ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:42:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Bingo. The key to making a great film is to find a bunch of people who are great at their particular role, and let them do their thing under your direction. Lucas was built up to be this creative genius who could never be wrong, so everyone on the set sort of just went along with what he said. I don't think it's necessarily his fault; I really believe that he could've taken constrictive criticism if anyone had the stones to challenge him.
rustier_trombone ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:27:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They just missed the mark. In my opinion, Lucas was more concerned with world building and selling merchandise (allllllll the gungan stuff and cool Naboo fighters) as opposed to story telling.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:28:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Shitty budgets? It was Star Wars. Movies like that (plus Avengers and Batman and whatnot) pretty much have blank checks.
iheartredditviii ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:50:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I think an actor has to sell the emotions to audience, not make them look realistic.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:42:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Marlon Brando.
yathree ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:16:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
http://youtu.be/2_6U9gkQeqY
Wilreadit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:12:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Stage acting is diff from drama acting(like friends) and feature film acting where you are not necessarily facing the film.
You can watch amateur porn to see what bad acting is.
Wilreadit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:17:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Actors who have incredible stage presence:
Hugh Jackman, Samuel L Jackson, Jim Carrey, Tom Cruise, Al Pacino, Morgan Freeman
Actors who have natural styles:
Bale, DDL, Caine, Oldman, Damon.
smashedguitar ยท 250 points ยท Posted at 16:27:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Like this?
https://youtu.be/6eWsFFQP0gA
(sorry, on my phone and have forgotten how to format links)
Atheist_Redditor ยท 35 points ยท Posted at 19:04:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thus is a great illustration of the differences. It's so hard to read a script and turn that into a natural performance.
SPQR_XVIII ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:11:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Favorite scene in the movie.
brains46 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:34:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes. :)
LongLiveBacon ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:07:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Unexpected Charlton Heston
wickedfighting ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:34:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
both are pretty bad in their own way. the second is just dramatic in a cringey way
astormintodesert ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 00:28:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I honestly thought there was going to be a third because of that.
BlackfishBlues ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:53:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wonder if they put out a casting call for a role as "bad actor", or if they just used one of the other guys who auditioned but didn't get the part.
NotOBAMAThrowaway ยท 73 points ยท Posted at 17:15:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I watch a lot of zombie movies, even 1 star rated films. As a result, I have watched lots of bad acting. A common error is speaking too fast. Real conversation has pauses, ums, and thoughtful reflection. Bad acting is saying your line as soon as possible
[deleted] ยท 95 points ยท Posted at 18:01:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
TIL Christopher Walken is the world's greatest actor
MisterTwindle ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:54:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know if it's really that way in acting but in writing they tell you to do the exact opposite and make everyone talk perfect unless it's part of their character to have a stutter or something.
zaphod_beeble_bro ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:18:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I also find scripting issues in movies. Maybe lines that sounded OK on paper, but once read and acted out they sound really forced or like nothing anyone would actually say. It bothers me that nobody on set cared enough to switch the phrase around so it sounds more natural.
fenean ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:52:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
yeah I was wondering, if it's badly writen, do actor stop and tell the producer "listen here, it sounds stupid, I'm not playing in a voiced-over infomercial!"
mediaboy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:15:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Depends on the actor, the producer, the script, etc.
The more famous you are, the more experienced your career, the less likely they are to pat you on the head and say "that's nice. Now say the fucking line"
SadGhoster87 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:49:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And that's a problem. After I moved, half my English teachers thought the best acting was OVERACTING! Every WORD a DRAMATIZED proCLAmAtiON of EMOTION!
Greekbatman ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 01:46:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Guys, I found Shatner.
SadGhoster87 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:49:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not Shatner, but the English teachers sure wanted me to be.
Tiny_Rat ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:25:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
People do something like that when they sing, too. You can always hear when someone is focused on hitting all the notes/showing off vs. actually performing the song.
thisshortenough ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:48:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There's a bit like that in the Wedding Ringer where the bridesmaids write a song and one of them decides that she will be beyonce and go for all these warbling low notes and over pronunciation of random syllables
techlos ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:21:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Nakedguyinlockerroom ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:17:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just like the walking dead. Horrible acting can't bear to watch
donjulioanejo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:28:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There's actually a funny running gag on the show Leverage that references this. The show is about a group of conmen that scam bad people, and Sophie, the group's grifter is absolutely amazing at playing up to roles or stereotypes, whether she's a Southern Belle, a European Duchess, a scared and confused secretary, or anything else she has to play.
The second she sets foot on an actual stage as an actress? It looks and sounds pretty much like this scene from Black Knight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg9Poi9d_a4
joannapwns ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:34:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That is like my biggest fear in my drama class. Over dramatizing my script so that it is unrealistic or laughable. I have an exam show on Monday, and I am playing a angry drug lord whose dialogue includes yelling at a guy loudly and passionately while threatening to beat him to a pulp.
Wilreadit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:23:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Don't act. Just be him, and project it out.
joannapwns ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:38:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks for the advice, I'll try my best!
Wilreadit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:49:12 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And practice of course.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:46:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a funny and dramatic fella, but I cannot act. I hate it, I hate it. The second someone points a camera at me my mind switches off. Because of my humor, friends have wanted me to do this-and-that with them for little projects here and there. I've always tried explaining to them that I'm really bad and uncomfortable with it. I just openly acknowledge that it's not for me, and that I am not at all interested in it.
rahyveshachr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:50:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This, and not following the script to the tee, is why I realized I'd never make Drama my high school EC activity.
icedhendrix ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:40:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So kinda like when you sing along in the car. You think you sound great but everyone else cant wait to get out.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:47:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's the problem that people have in general with the arts. It's not like the end product is a superhuman product that can't be replicated, but anything good takes a transcendent amount of concentration that normal people don't have.
Atheist_Redditor ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:59:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Also, it's really difficult to act well when the writer is shit and won't let you deter from the script. I've had a script where as a normal, average intelligence, high school aged kid, I am supposed to use words like perhaps, morose, and other totally unnatural words American dialect. The writers don't write like people talk, they write like they are writing a book.
I dont know if this makes sense.
throwawayblue69 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:14:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You don't use the word perhaps? I understand morose but perhaps isn't that unusual
RickStevens21 ยท 278 points ยท Posted at 17:08:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You never appreciate good acting until you see terrible acting.
EstherandThyme ยท 155 points ยท Posted at 19:02:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like I don't know how to recognize run-of-the-mill bad acting. Like of course I know the acting is bad if it's "Oh god, oh man!" levels of bad, but people talk about performances by established actors in big-name movies being bad and most of the time I am like..."huh?" Specific examples are escaping me right now, but one I can think of is old lady Rose from Titanic.
uraffululz ยท 68 points ยท Posted at 19:58:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Watch some fan movies on youtube. Especially anything Silent Hill. They all suck so fucking much I had to write my own just to prove to myself I could do it better. Maybe someday I'll actually film it and realize it sucks ass too.
DancesWithChodes ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 02:39:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I believe in you
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:44:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
uraffululz ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:17:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was really only talking about the fan-made movies on youtube (mostly in the context of bad acting, although the scripts themselves generally aren't any better). As a long-time Silent Hill fan, I could rant about those Hollywood abominations all day (like a slurry neckbeard sailor), but I'll refrain for now.
[deleted] ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 23:36:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Go to a high-school musical or play. For some reason, there's almost always one person who can act decently. Not zero, not two, one. And the rest are always terrible.
masta666 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 21:14:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Watch The Room, then you'll truly understand what bad acting is.
inksmudgedhands ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 20:11:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Spot what they are doing with their body. Are they animated? Are they using props to tell a story. Or is their acting just from the neck up.
I've been noticing this more and more from the British actors that are coming from overseas. The neck and up acting. Classically trained actors know how to use their voice fantastically, mostly because you need to when you are stage trained. But they are stiff when it comes to them moving around.
That's the difference that I notice between American actors and British actors. American actors are more animated. They'll use their whole body. Sometimes this can comes across as fidgety. Especially when they are playing against British actors. But I prefer that style to British style. And then there are British actors who have adopted a more American style when they act, like Gary Oldman but they are rare. It's more like Redmayne and Hiddleston. I love those actors but after watching an American actor like Sam Rockwell, go, go, go, it makes British acting that much more glaring.
[deleted] ยท 38 points ยท Posted at 22:59:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Optionions ยท 34 points ยท Posted at 23:59:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was going to say this. They're not acting badly, they're playing British characters accurately.
Wilreadit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:26:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Colin Firth, epitome of British stiff acting.
Olpainless ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 01:39:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've grown up acting, involved in theatre since I was 8, and movement when acting is not natural for most people. People deliver their lines, they get the tones, the facial expressions, maybe sometimes even hand movements, but unless you've been doing it long enough to have had it drilled into you, people DON'T MOVE.
You can really see it in people who are new to, or just not very good at, acting. Blocking is so important for directors just because most actors don't move themselves half the time!
I know you're probably referring to physicality and using your entire body to perform, but it just made me think of that as something that really sets actors apart.
TwirlerGirl ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 05:15:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's even harder for people who naturally don't talk with their hands. I can easily have a conversation without moving my hands, but it comes across as really stiff when I'm delivering a monologue. I basically have to choreograph my hand movements on emphasized words, but it takes a lot of practice to make it look natural.
inksmudgedhands ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:20:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, that's exactly what I mean. They don't move. They don't move around the set. They don't do anything outside of saying their lines and acting from the neck up.
And then you watch someone like Dustin Hoffman or Marlon Brando and they would go around and just move. Even in quiet scenes like for example, in A Streetcar named Desire, Stanley is having a scene with Blanche and while the two are almost face to face talking, Brando just reaches up and picks up some lint off of the actress' shoulder. It may sound simple. People do that in real life. But I haven't seen anyone do that in a movie before. It was such a little thing but that movement made the scene feel more real. It wasn't just acting from the neck up, there was movement. There was life.
And I see American actors do things like this more than British actors. That seemingly mindless movement. I like that. It feel more real.
Wilreadit ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:25:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Gary Oldman never acted in a movie. They were all different people who looked like Gary Oldman.
screen317 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:07:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I thought Old Rose was fine?
Reytho ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:38:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For me it's...
a) An actor fully inhabiting the character. Almost beyond acting. Jack Gleeson as Joffrey in Game of Thrones, for instance.
b) Irrevocably bad acting. See Jake Lloyd in The Phantom Menace. Just a human saying lines written by another human.
c) Everyone else, basically. Just that general actinginess.
less-right ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:31:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Avery Brooks as Benjamin Sisko would be a good place to start.
Prototype_es ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:28:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Watch anything by Tommy Wiseau if you want to see some bad acting as a baseline for what bad acting looks like. "I did not hit her, I did not!" link for the lazy https://youtu.be/if5eP3crl_4
EstherandThyme ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:12:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've seen The Room many times, but that's not "normal bad," that's advanced bad.
--lI ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 20:16:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I would go farther and say you never appreciate good acting until you see your terrible acting. In other words, filming yourself acting then watching how terrible you really are.
apm588 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:24:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This realization came to me watching Star Wars screen tests. They showed a bunch of woman who were auditioning for Leia, and then you see Carrie Fisher deliver the same lines, and it just clicked. Everything else was so over the top and melodramatic
Concheria ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:26:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Haha, what a story Mark!
mafiaking1936 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:58:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Some of the best acting I ever saw was Derek Jacobi playing a terrible Shakespearean actor 8-)
18thcenturyPolecat ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:15:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's not true at all- good acting is really notable regardless!
[deleted] ยท 362 points ยท Posted at 14:43:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Plus it's a very long journey from 'I understand what this character is about / is going through" to "I can make that show up in my voice and body realistically", and actors have to keep a million other things in their head to make a whole performance run smoothly.
ianmilham ยท 221 points ยท Posted at 16:09:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've been on some film sets and that really drives home what a skill it is. To be emotionally true in the scene, take after take, sometimes with long breaks inbetween, is remarkable.
I've also done casting and it's crazy when you see a parade of people perform the same thing in a row. The differences in skill/choices become very apparent.
awkwardoxfordcomma ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:40:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So what kind of choices have people made that stood out to you? Different choices, ones that take risks, sure. But what kind of risks did you see were the 'right' risks?
ianmilham ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 22:15:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Really depends on the material, but usually its when they choose to be natural and real, even if it's not as showy or memorable. Or when they've taken their time with a moment before delivering the line, which can be really hard to do when the other person reading isn't acting with you but just reading flat.
Sometimes actors go against the tone that most everyone else chooses, like playing something sinister-funny instead of funny-funny, maybe without even realizing it. And i've thought, "well, we definitely don't want it to be like THAT in the final thing, but that was interesting. I didn't even realize this scene could feel like that."
Like I remember once an actress who just had sort of a hard look and I think didn't really want to be there, and played the scene with a little bit of distance and frustration. It made the character feel like she had more history and a little danger, even with the exact same words. It also felt like she wouldn't be great to work with, but it opened my eyes as to more possibilities with the character.
awkwardoxfordcomma ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:57:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you so much. This was extremely informative to me as an actor and very detailed. I appreciate it. Being real is the biggest challenge about acting and one that I'm definitely currently struggling with lending to my performances.
What would you say to an actor who doesn't know what this final picture is going to be like but wants to present themselves in a way that fits into your final picture? Too many times I've been to auditions when I just want to scream 'TELL ME WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE AND I'LL DO IT' but obviously it's the good ones who know how to look for what they want and attempt to give it to them.
ianmilham ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 05:41:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can obviously only speak for myself, but I wasn't that worried about actors "doing it right" in the first auditions. No way could an actor have the context and time to really have a fair shot at that. I would usually play it like this:
1) Actor comes in, quick handshake, maybe a little small talk. Then they go thru the scene. No direction or teeing up from me.
2) If they were just obviously wrong for it for some reason, or just wrecked the scene, then that was it. If not, I'd give some light direction. Nothing crazy, but something different than what they just did. That direction wasn't necessarily in the real direction of the piece, although it usually was.
3) They'd go through it again. The point here was not really "did they get it right this time?", but more, did they take the direction? Did they actually do something different?
So in my head, I was more looking for other things than getting the performance right at that stage. Assuming they were in the ballpark for the role, I was looking for: Is this person able to get along? Can they suggest things and take suggestions? Do they have a point of view? Will they be a good partner in making something good? Are they dependable and flexible with their performance? Stuff like that.
The fact is, you can't really know the final picture like they do, and you could drive yourself crazy guessing. Better to make a (reasonable) choice and go with it, but be ready to try something else if they do guide you.
awkwardoxfordcomma ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:20:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Excellent. Have the ability to take feedback and direction given, as well as the ability to make confident, real choices. I guess it sounds preachy and generic like all 'actor advice' but this practical experience really made me understand.
Thank you!
Joessandwich ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:24:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm at a sitcom and see some audition sessions. It really is amazing to see so many attempts at the same material, and usually only one or two actually get it. Sometimes it's just a good actor going for the role, but most of the time it's just bad acting.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:05:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was watching a behind the scenes of greys anatomy - and they had part of a table read on there. Sweet Jesus I they were sitting a table with their coffees eating an apple while fighting over something- and I was blown away. Going from 0 to 100 real fast. After watching that it was hard to believe they are actors not doctors.
(The man I'm describing was Eric Dane- holy shit- unbelievable)
SoraRyuuzaki ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:09:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just directed a play that I wrote and in the proceeding withdrawals have been looking back at the videos I took of my cast at their auditions. I remember the audition process and hearing my pieces read over and over again and I distinctly remember learning to pick up on the small differences that brought out different sides to my characters.
We didn't give any of the auditionees the script until they arrived, after which point they had 15 minutes to look at it. Some people acted in ways that were cookie-cutter and similar to everyone else; others gave it their all and really connected with the script and those were the ones I ended up casting.
... man, I'm having hardcore withdrawals right now.
pushtheTALLpedal ยท 588 points ยท Posted at 18:09:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I might get some Reddit hate for bringing up the Big Bang Theory, but the episode of "Fun with Flags" shows this pretty nicely. In the episode, Sheldon is hosting a webshow and is noticeably awkward on camera, as would be expected of a non actor. Except he's an accomplished actor accurately portraying a camera shy novice, and it's done so well that you forget that it's a portrayal of a portrayal...
[deleted] ยท 450 points ยท Posted at 19:49:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
DragonsSparkle ยท 136 points ยท Posted at 21:15:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And that episode of Supernatural when Sam and Dean end up on the set of Supernatural and has to be Sam and Dean.
[deleted] ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 01:26:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I genuinely believe that Misha Collins is one of the greatest modern actors. He plays five different characters in the same outfit just by changing his inflection and mannerisms, yet all five are distinctly different and give the audience massively different feelings.
xNexx_ ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 01:46:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Did you see the newest episode? Misha was awesome
CuteCatGirl_ ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 10:31:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh my god that acting was great but Cas :'(
DaWrongOpinion ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 11:48:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ever watched orphan black? The main character has to talk to herself!
DaWaffledude ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:27:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The best moments are when she has to pretend to be one character, pretending to be another character, pretending to be another character, and still manages to make it work.
DaWrongOpinion ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:04:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cloneception
Gogogadgetskates ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:03:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They did such a good job at being terrible that it was literally cringe worthy.
BitchinTechnology ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 21:52:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Joey and Rachel are the best actors on that show. Not my favorite characters mind you. But have the best talent.
Wilreadit ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:29:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Joey in real life is an honest to goodness serious dude. He is not the goofy dick, but just the opposite.
Everyone else is like exactly how they are portrayed. That just shows Le Blanc's chops.
thisshortenough ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 21:49:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah but he was given loads of tips and tricks though like Smell the Fart acting
RedmondCooper ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 23:13:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Mmmm noodle soup...
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:29:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You're flingin-flangin right.
Mufestus ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 03:45:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
.... uh yeah, he was such a talented actor.... It must of been a real stretch for him pretending to be bad.
EsQuiteMexican ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 21:25:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Likewise, I think Alec Baldwin had a similar scene on 30 Rock. You could tell the difference like day and night.
Zam548 ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 23:19:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The acting on Big Bang Theory has always been solid, especially Sheldon and glasses guy. The writing on the other hand...
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:25:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
FTFY
Lord_Doener ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 23:51:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Also that Supernatural episode where Sam and Dean end up in a paralel universe and then the actors have to play Sam and Dean playing the actors playing Sam and Dean badly.
Ivancon10a ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 01:22:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If there's a key... then there must be a lock!
KingOfSockPuppets ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:30:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've always wondered that about various shows/movies. How meta it must be in an actor's head to be like "okay, so I'm a great actor playing a character who is also a great actor but the character is pretending to be terrible at acting".
lordhellion ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 22:40:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Or if you dont want to sully yourself with BBT, watch The Lost Skeleton of Cadavra. Credits-to-credits acting so perfectly, purposefully bad that as a dramatic arts worker it blows my mind.
the-iron-queen ยท 196 points ยท Posted at 17:39:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is one of my biggest pet peeves. I've been acting and studying theatre for half my life. And I meet people all the time who are completely dismissive of the work and dedication that goes into preparing performances, or believe that they're on the same level as me because they did a couple plays in high school.
It makes me sound like a pretentious ass, but when you've put so much of yourself into something, it's hard not to be defensive of it.
immensethrowaway ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 18:49:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have a buddy who has been acting (semi) professionally since high school. I like going to his shows because he is really good and it's fun to see him do his thing. I'm always impressed with the sheer volume of text he must remember, to say nothing of how to get it across in a convincing way.
Seems like many/most of our friends don't take him very seriously and don't attend his shows much, if at all. It's kind of sad because my friend is really skilled and IMHO has a real talent. People for some reason think it's easy or they could do it just as well. It's not and they could not.
FlutisticallyYours ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 18:12:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you for this. You do not sound pretentious. It's understandable why you're frustrated.
I'm a musician, and I've put thousands of hours into practicing my instrument, and more than once I've run into some schmuck who thinks they're Hendrix or Slash because they know four chords on the guitar, or they can play Twinkle Twinkle Little Star on the piano and seem to think they're the same level as me, despite my 10+ years of musical training.
Or when they say something condescending like "Oh yeah, I did band band/orchestra/chorus in high school. That was where I stopped. Didn't realize some people made a career out of that!" Fuck off.
It's fine to enjoy those things, or use your past experience to get a conversation rolling, but some people just don't seem to realize how hard the arts are. And yes, some people do it professionally. It's a job, too.
the-iron-queen ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:26:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you! So much of this thread is filled with artists, it's really making me feel so much better and less alone, haha.
Sometimes I really don't think non-artists can understand. People who work a typical 9-5 don't often take their work home the same way artists do. It's hard to wrap your head around spending 8-12 hours a day working, collaborating and rehearsing, then going home and spending more time on it on your own, and pouring all of yourself into it. It's a whole lifestyle and identity. And it's pretty fucking insulting to then have someone just say, "oh, I'm just like you! I was in choir in school." There are worlds between us.
FlutisticallyYours ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:31:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm loving the angry artists, too! I FEEL VALIDATED
I really have nothing against people who enjoy these things. You do community theatre? Awesome! Welcome to the club! You play piano for fun? Sweet! Let's talk about that! Just don't be a dick by implying that we do the same kind of work. No. That's why I do it for a living.
I really look forward to the day that professional artists are as respected and revered in their fields like doctors are. Farfetched, yes, but one can dream.
the-iron-queen ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:41:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, for sure! My SIL does community theatre and another friend takes improv classes for fun. And great! Awesome! Love it! Enjoy the arts, participate, appreciate - it's all good, and I totally encourage it. But, exactly like you said, I do it professionally, and that separates us.
I live in Canada, and Canadian theatre didn't really exist before the 80s, so I'm optimistic that myself and the other second-generation Canadian artists can begin to make more of a mark. Then I won't have to get the "aw, you act, that's adorable" at family gatherings, haha.
mediaboy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:45:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My pet hate is "that's nice, but we work proper jobs, so don't you come complaining about your work".
I like to do a thing where I describe my week as if I was working corporate, using corporate analogues. I've found that if you use the same language as them, most office workers tend to realise it's a job that isn't really that different for the most part. So take this week in December:
Monday: one of the companies that contracts my company has been doing some outreach recently to try and find some potential talent to invest in, and I got asked to help out. Commuted over to the other side of London and spent the morning discussing how we were going to approach it, and then the rest of the day getting started. Some promising people here, and good responses. Feel keen to continue. It's a bit of a long day though as I had a meeting that evening as well: I'm overseeing a small presentation for January and it's always good to get into the same room and check everything is coming along fine. There's a few issues but nothing we couldn't resolve. There's time for a pint at the local afterwards too, which is always appreciated after a 14 hour work day.
Tuesday: more outreach today. Building on what we were doing yesterday, we felt much more comfortable. Brief presentation to manager at the end to go over how we'd done it all: they seemed happy with our work. Then off to business meetings again: a new client expressed an interest in contracting us for a long-term and we need to negotiate a contract. I check my prices are still competitive and go from there. Everyone is happy, and the client puts ink on the paper: success!
Wednesday: it was supposed to be a quiet day after two long days, but I barely got into the office before the phone started ringing non-stop. Lawyer had finally finished processing some paperwork and there's a few issues with invoices that I've got to chase up. Better yet, one of my employees is moving on in a few weeks so we're shifting his workload around. A few clients are unhappy with the change, but seem more willing to discuss than I feared. We arrange a meeting for them to meet his replacement on neutral turf and start building a rapport.
Thursday: it's a quiet day today so I take an early lunch and wander off to one of the external sites I work in. It's always good to keep refreshing your professional skills, and pending an emergency there's no reason why I can't do this. We've also got to start looking at putting together some training courses for Spring, so I take my notes over and start poking around. I've just finished an outline when one of my clients rings me and asks if we could move a meeting up. I head off to their office immediately, only to discover that they haven't prepared anything, despite wanting to move it up. A waste of time, but I get paid for it nonetheless. They let me know they're off to the states for a month and we tentatively pencil in a followup meeting at the end of January.
Friday: an advertising company gets in touch and offers us what seems to be a good deal. Much of the morning is spent checking their legitimate and seeing if we can budget in extra marketing, and it's looking doubtful when the phone rings: one of our local competitors is having an emergency. They're supposed to be giving a short demo at a conference that evening, but they're lacking staff! I rustle up a few people and we hash out something appropriate for the event over the course of the afternoon. The conference manager is surprised to see us not them, but takes down our details after and says they might be in touch in the new year. Great news again, but I doubt really expect anything: they're a bit posh and fancy for a company as new as ours.
Saturday: it's the weekend, I hear, but that tends to just mean more paperwork. One of our major contractors missed a monthly meeting and we're having it virtually instead. A series of long emails fly back and forth and it emerged that a number of volunteers would like to be involved and my contractor is keen for me to support them. I drop emails off to the volunteers to get a better idea of what I'm working with before I start making any plans. I've also got some temp cover to arrange for holidaying staff, so I use the weekend to get in touch with weekday workers. One of them queries (in passing) an invoice they sent me, and after some checking it emerges that they haven't sent the invoice. Whoops. I ring the bank and arrange payment for them so that it arrives before Christmas, including small bonus. It's not significant, but good will is worth a lot.
Anyway; you get the gist. If I coached the job in professional terms people suddenly realised it wasn't just, yknow, "press one to get paid for your hobby"
Wilreadit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:33:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
TL DR?
mediaboy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:37:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
TLDR: Musicians (and many artists) struggle to be taken as a serious profession because they use casual language. If we, as artists, adopt the same set of language to describe the same set of events as "proper" professionals, then "proper" professionals tend to understand better how our job is also a "proper" job.
TLDR;TLDR: Use fancy words, be taken seriously.
musicalfeet ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:32:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a former pro-musician turned future med student, I hope it helps when I say, as much as people say getting into med school is hard (and it totally is, not bashing it), nothing has been as soul-crushing as pouring hours and hours into your instrument hoping to reach a certain level, and then realizing you're just still not there for some reason.
The ONLY time the pre-med process so far has resembled anything like music was when I had to take the MCAT and studied for about 4 hours a day. But even then, it wasn't as much pressure. And on that same note, getting rejected from your top med school choices hurts much less than not winning an audition or competition. I can't explain why it feels that way either. Case in point: I did a local competition for fun and didn't win (for reasons even the jury admitted had nothing to do with my playing) and cried for like 10 minutes. Rejected from like, all of my state medical schools and barely batted an eye.
EDIT: TYPO
Wilreadit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:35:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Try studying for your board certification and then we will talk.
Medicine is way more difficult that music. It is like learning to play a lot of instruments which are out of tune and there are no notations.
musicalfeet ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:50:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Definitely will do! I'm not saying medicine is easy or whatever, I know it's extremely difficult. Just so far the process hasn't been as difficult as it's made out to be...and actually seeing how the majority of med students pass their boards, I'm not too worried about not passing...
Whereas I worried about my paycheck and auditions all the time because of all the BS reasons why it could go wrong.
Wilreadit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:55:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Try passing the boards, having some sleep and managing to have a normal social life and keeping the interest in music alive. You will find it really occupying.
Let me give you some advice. Of all the arts out there medical science is the mistress who is the most difficult to satisfy. It takes a life time and then some to be truly exceptional in medicine, given that you are intelligent and hard working.
musicalfeet ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:58:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well...I didn't have much of a social life in music either :( all that alone time practicing doesn't really lend itself to one. Or keeping interest in music. Hell, I don't play anymore because I'm so burned out and have no intention to.
Maybe the reason why I don't think it's so bad so far is because I'm used to not having a social life? Im a loser :(
Wilreadit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:01:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most of the people who go far in a particular field are like you.
It is better to go alone if you want to go far.
Wilreadit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:33:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The same is true for every profession in life. Try being a maitre'd and remember 10 orders with 10 diff specifications.
cASe383 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:18:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I did HS and community theater back in the day, and my experience there only reinforces how much dedication, training, and talent it takes to be a good actor. I have a lot of respect for the people who can do it well.
theOrangeHorse ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:51:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Your comment hit home with me. I read it and thought of my boxing. I've done it religiously for 8yrs and people try to dismiss my skill as something they can pick up in a couple of months. I get, "Oh you box? I've been in a few fights in my day, I know how to throw a punch." Fuck you no you don't! I've spent YEARS in the gym, practicing the same shit day and in day out. Bled, broke my nose. Sent low level pros packing. So you think you can do what I do? I should beat your ass just for the absurdity of that thought. Sorry you kind of touched a nerve, I can relate.
sightlab ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:16:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a terrific mimic...I can imitate people & performances down to tiny details. It's a gift/curse. But as many times as I've heard someone say "you should be an actor!" I know that's not my bag. Theres a vast gulf between spot-on mimicry, and the vast minutia of building and embodying a part, becoming invisible in a different personality and realistically reacting from inside the role. It's not pretentious to anyone who gets that various arts can be copied with relative ease but to be good takes dedication and training. Good actors are true artists, and it's one of the most amazingly intangible arts. I've been a graphic designer for almost half my life, and I feel the same way about people who think photoshop makes them good at what I do. Books, books, observation, practice and 2 decades of productive failure don't come with a software download.
lordhellion ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:59:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I direct small stage and community theatre, and nothing is more infuriating to me than the amount of local actors who think they know it all for having survived a run or two. I know actors who never look genuine on stage, who always forget lines, who honestly believe they could pack up and work mainstage in a major market anytime they wanted.
And I, too, am viewed in my local community as an asshole for feeling that artists should never show complacency with their current level of skill.
NotAGangMember ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:45:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a working actor. Whenever people find out they always say how they've been thinking about becoming an actor. .. and they always ask "how much work could it be, really? "
Ugh... a lot of work. When I prep for series regular audition. You have under 48 hours to be off book (if you're smart) and be camera ready. That is very little time. The training it takes you to be able to do that quickly and have a strong audition is insane. Years of training and auditioning and learning from past mistakes... all for only opportunities to audition to work.
Not to mention. If you still have a day job... it's so much worse. And if you don't. ..The stress alone of not knowing when you're gonna work again would eat most people alive.
the-iron-queen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:36:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly! And if you want to diversify which kinds of acting you do (stage, film, musicals, etc.), then you have to learn and accomplish different styles of performance and auditions, and they're each of them very dense and layered, with lots of history and unique competitions. It's crazy!
I have a day job and it's the worst. People always act so impressed and surprised when I tell them I also do theatre, and I'm like, "did you really think this retail job was my life's passion?"
AwkwardnessIsAwesome ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:46:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm really scared to get to that level of acting where I completely lose myself in the character. So many great actors have done that and it really screwed up their life. I can get into the reality of the character but I am also aware of the reality of myself. Do I need to strive to lose myself or is my method working?
the-iron-queen ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:05:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It depends on what method or style of acting works for you, ultimately.
My comment about losing myself wasn't in regards to losing my 'self' in a character, but in my work and passion. I have played characters that really got under my skin and affected me very deeply in my life outside of the role, but I have always been told to maintain "2% actor" at the forefront of my mind when performing. I wasn't taught method acting; the more I studied it in my undergrad, the more disturbing Strasberg's ideas became.
At the end of the day, it is acting. We perform different realities, tell stories, and hopefully entertain audiences. You don't need to tear yourself apart to do that. If whatever technique you use to develop a character results in convincing and well-portrayed characters, then it's working.
Wilreadit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:40:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You are too awkward to get there, do not worry.
AwkwardnessIsAwesome ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:29:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lol. XD
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:00:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Good example: Watch two broke Girls, horrible acting, it's so painful to watch.
Thenadamgoes ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 18:39:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have a friend that works at an acting school. I'm convinced some people have confused "Liking being the center of attention" with "Wanting to be an actor"
Being an actor requires a lot of work.
baccus83 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:35:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's very hard to do at a high level. You have to be completely in control of your body and voice, and completely rid yourself of your own ticks and idiosyncrasies. There's a level of awareness that the best actors have that takes a long time to hone.
Sevsquad ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:20:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You don't always have to rid yourself of those ticks. Sometimes those little idiosyncrasies become the most realistic part of the character.
baccus83 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:28:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's a matter of choice. You can keep your ticks so long as you're conscious of and deliberate with them, knowing they're part of your character now and not you. Never should you let your own tendencies seep into your performance unconsciously.
barb-janes ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:03:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Definitely this. I only truly began to realize how difficult it is, after attempting to get into the acting game. The best actors simultaneously juggle posture, accents, lines, emotional level and timing - without their own personality coming through. Holy SHIT is that hard to do.
thatguycalledben ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:35:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This. There's a reason why many successful actors went to top schools to study the craft. It's really difficult to trick your brain into believing the scene is real while adhering to the script.
TheBrainwasher14 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:34:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Know exactly what you mean. I used to think I was a good actor, but watching clips of myself, holy shit, no I wasn't. Definitely have that "tone".
Jarmatus ยท 106 points ยท Posted at 13:38:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ironically, my neurological disorder has slightly improved my acting - I'm always scripting and faking it to get through the day, so scripting and faking it on stage is easier and more natural.
OklahomerSimpson ยท 145 points ยท Posted at 13:57:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't have a neurological disorder, this is still how I live life.
Fake it 'till you make it.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:09:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Story of my life
JustinClarkv1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:38:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nah, the story of your life involves banging Olivia Munn.
That's the part everyone cares about.
spaceman_spifffff ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:30:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wow, Aaron Rodgers. Just goes to show you even the stars have problems.
vxicepickxv ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:15:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Welcome to adulthood. It's something I got better at doing, and it makes my life easier.
DrMarioLutherKing ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:38:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You may have autism
MustacheEmperor ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:40:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Don't worry, neither do most of the people who say they do on reddit.
xmashatstand ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 16:46:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Which neurological disorder is that?
Jarmatus ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:44:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Artism.
No but seriously, Asperger syndrome.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:25:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
artism
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:54:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's also helpful when both you and your character love breakfast.
kaenneth ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:42:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like this describes Tom Cruise. He always seems to be acting, even in 'candid' interviews.
Wilreadit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:41:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Bale used Tom Cruise as a model for his Patrick Bateman.
GordionKnot ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:28:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Damnit I thought I'd be good at this
I suppose I'll have to ignore my instinct and assume otherwise
Bran_Solo ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:47:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For an internal video at work I had to act in a 5 minute scene by myself with a proper film crew. Just a cheesy internal video used for a directors review, maybe 100 VP types saw it. A long time ago I'd done drama class in school and all that so I thought it would be fine.
But when you have 20 people standing around staring at you, all pointing cameras and mics and adjusting your clothes and putting makeup on you, it is pretty high pressure. And then they need you to do the same little thing again and again and again and oh maybe we'll go back and redo that thing from two hours ago.
I got pretty frazzled. It's not easy and I did a lousy job.
JonDied ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:50:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is 100% true. For class we made a 2 min commmercial, about every commercial sounded fake and out of touch. I personally thought it would be piece of cake, but it was super hard. Kudos to those who are professionals.
disposable_me_0001 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:03:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone who has done any public speaking knows that acting is fucking hard. I don't think this was ever a misconception.
BrohanGutenburg ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:49:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've done some amateur acting, mostly student films and whatnot. Nothing too serious. Still, I've always appreciated how much skill it takes to do it well.
But in college I had to do a documentary project with a group of stage actors during the early stages of a production. The time when the actors and the director and whomever else are making decision about these characters. Motivations, fears, etc. It was just me and my camera. Everyone else there was involved in the production.
It was incredible. It was honestly mind-blowing; being able to see these actors go in and out of character with no noticeable difference. Nothing. One minute they're one person, the next they're another. They weren't acting like someone else. They were someone else. At least from where I was sitting.
That gave me a whole new appreciation for what real acting looks like. Not through a screen where your senses are dulled. But up close. In person. What it looks like to see someone who can be anyone.
brian_mcgee17 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:07:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hell, I don't even look natural when I'm being myself alone at home.
AwkwardnessIsAwesome ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:42:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a college student majoring in theatre I can say that no one is a natural at acting. NO ONE.
a_fonzerelli ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:30:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So true. I work as a voice director and most times when I tell someone that at a party, the response I get is, "Cool, you know I've always wanted to get into voice acting. What's the best way to go about it?" Well, first of all be one of the handful of people with the necessary talent, then work your ass off to hone that talent. Next, spend years getting rejected over and over before you land your first gig. "But I can do a British accent, listen!"
c130 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:20:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was curious about voice acting as a hobby so I signed up at Librivox.org and worked on a few projects (it's a site where anyone can volunteer to record public domain books as audiobooks).
It's fun, frustrating, interesting, and terrifying how much there is to learn.
In audiobooks and movies with great voice acting, the acting disappears beneath the characters. When you hear terrible voice acting though, it's easy to think "I could do better!" until you actually sit down in front of a mic, read your lines and come out sounding as emotional as a GPS.
Ireadgooder ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:20:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'll just leave this here:
http://www.cc.com/video-clips/qkt9x0/stand-up-david-spade--acting-is-easy
Murphytate ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:06:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There's just so many little gestures that go into it that really make it perfect, not just memorizing lines, but looking at yourself in the mirror for hours trying to make the simplest combination of movements and dialogue seem natural.
Purplociraptor ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:58:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've been acting like a human my whole life. Nobody knows I'm a dog.
techniforus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:00:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Only on the internet.
Purplociraptor ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:01:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have a pretty convincing meat suit for face to face interactions.
techniforus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:02:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yet you don't eat it? I think you're just pretending to be a dog...
capt_pantsless ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:14:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
One of the causes of this is that most folks have only seen the top 1% of actors. The people in movies and TV shows are the creme-de-la-creme of actors. Performers at that level MAKE it look easy.
nothingatwood ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:06:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm always amazed when I find out an actors normal speech is not American. Hugh Laurie, Andrew Lincoln come to mind. I loved the Mentalist and saw an interview with Simon Baker and almost shit my pants.
bjsy92 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:10:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
man I wish I still pursued acting
dmkicksballs13 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:22:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
All jobs celebrities do pretty much. Lady Gaga said she regularly goes 36 hours without sleep.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:41:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Furthermore the numerous takes that are done. They are pretty much acting the same section of the script repeatedly, and they have to make it look like that is the firs time they said it, or they have to portray it as being quick witted and so on. Acting looks like fun, but that has to be one of the most difficult parts imo
Oldcheese ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:55:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Also acting for TV and such is wildly different than reality. But we just don't realize how different it is. In reality people will stutter and eeeehh. In TV this barely happens. Rick and Morty actually has a 'realistic' speech pattern to some extent and when you see the show its the first odd thing you see.
Acting it's hard, it's acting different in such a way that it's somehow the same.
onceuponathrow ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:07:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Some with singing.
Most really good trained singers make it seem so effortless that people think they can do it too.
wsotw ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:13:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As someone who makes a decent income in front of a camera (mostly commercials and TV but some film) I can't tell you how many times someone has asked me something along the lines of "Hey, I would like to try that. How do I get an agent?" or "...how do I get a commercial?" or with absolutely zero acting experience "...I want to get on [insert name of popular tv show here]?" They have no understanding that I have twenty years into this and have spent a LOT of time working on the craft. The flip side of this is when I get into any sort of kerfuffle on facebook (something I am not a stranger to) it is also the first place a weak arguer tries to attack. It is as if they think I am vulnerable there. I can't tell you how many times someone has said something along the lines of "you are just a two bit commercial actor" or just recently "I am going to blast you on twitter and reddit. You are just a #washedupextra." ...from a guy who had on his facebook feed three or four posts about being an extra in a movie whilst I shot over a dozen commercials, five episodes of TV and a movie last year alone. His twitter attack went nowhere until I retweeted it for him. It was the least I could do. (hint: twitter - #washedupextra)
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:32:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
People think that looks easy? Looks hard as hell to me.
bobbypellitt ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:43:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm studying acting as we speak and believe me when I say this is the one job you truly have to always give 100% of your best work. It's extremely difficult and there is a reason why it requires "talent".
hjschrader09 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:48:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm adding voice acting to this as well. I'm a voice actor and so many people say shit like, "oh I'd really like to try it out. It could be fun. It can't be that hard, it's just talking. It's not even real acting." It's like, bitch where's your voice reel? Oh you don't have one because you can't do any other voices? Yeah you'll do great.
Tnargkiller ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:55:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When I was in my teens I did a scene with a professional (but not famous) actor and when we started the shot, he started his bit and when it came to my line I just couldn't speak. I was blown away by how convinced I was. I can't imagine a Tom Cruise-level actor/actress. I'll never forget that moment.
PartyPorpoise ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:11:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
While on the subject of acting, I want to specifically bring up voice acting. It's one thing to be able to do an impression of Spongebob or Mr. Burns or Bugs Bunny, but it's another to actually be able to act as them. You should be able to talk as a sad Spongebob, an angry Mr. Burns, or Bugs Bunny pretending to be a woman. I think about this whenever I watch American Dad, they have this character, Roger, who makes up ridiculous personas and plays as them. It's gotta take some talent for MacFarlane to voice not just Roger, but Roger pretending to be other people.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:24:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hah, we did some filming to do a video for work and we took various people in the company and filmed scenarios with them, and did some VO work with them. The video came out awkward as fuuuuuck. Luckily my parts were cut out of it too.
CourtM092 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:48:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I always felt that improv was so much easier than script reading. I always stunk at that.
helmutkr ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:52:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Middle School aged me thought for sure I would go into filmmaking. Made a few embarrassing attempts at making short films. It's amazingly hard just to appear natural in front of a camera, make things look even remotely cinematic, etc.
Bryaxis ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:55:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
An analogy I've heard: Imagine someone with no training getting up on stage and trying to play the violin. You'd expect them to be terrible. Acting is similar, but some people don't realize it because you can't see the instrument.
nightraindream ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:51:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's how I judge how good someone is at something. If they're doing something and make it look easy, they're definitely good at it.
silentkill144 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:09:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I just watched The Shining and Jack Nicholson's acting is so spot on in that movie.
bkrassn ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:10:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I worked with an actor. Guy could change his entire persona at the drop of a hat. He personally was a bit uneasy and stressed out all the time but he could play any type of person. It was quite amazing. Near as I could tell all the body language lined up. Voice inflections were appropriate per the role he was doing. Not something I can do, that is for sure.
DisagreeableMale ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:34:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Have any fundamental tips for amateur actors?
Wilreadit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:11:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This can be mitigated if you have a good director. A good director can spot the rawness in your performance and then polish it off.
Anyone can be a good actor with time and opportunity. But since those two things are hard to come by you need to go to acting school or debut with a good director.
They say a good director acts through his pawns.
plainguy01 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:21:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In my limited experience if someone tells you they are an actor they are an egomaniac who at most have done some college plays or public access skits. On the other hand the two people I know who are actual actors, one was the lead in a series on CBC and the other had been on Trailer Park Boys and The Lizzy Borden chronicles, never bring up their acting unless they are asked about it.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:18:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I like to think that I can do vocal acting ok but visual acting is fucking impossible. I have a hard enough time showing my emotions day to day. Never mined if I am not actually feeling them and I am surrounded by a crew.
jcb6939 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:47:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be a great actor is hard, but to be an average one can't be that hard if all of these singers and models just pick it up instantly and star in movies
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:32:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Those people usually A) have the roles written for them, and B) are terrible.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:45:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:32:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Unfortunately a lot of people actually believe this.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:45:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:49:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit is full of stupid rubes.
_coast_of_maine ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:12:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
On this though, I'm amazed at how many 1st time acting singers or kids get Oscars.
QuestionsEverythang ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:18:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is that why reality TV is so popular to do?
InsaneBeagle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:50:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I really want to try it.
83923678 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:53:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
HOW LONG CAN YOU REALLY KID YOURSELF?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:38:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Acting is easy. Proof: I'm a psychopath.
RatchetBird ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:59:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I act everyday when I pretend I like my job.
greywar777 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:11:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Actually when i was younger I did some acting, and for me...it was amazingly easy. I placed well in state competitions, and the people I was with really struggled to do it.
It was simply putting myself into being the person i was acting. It was not even remotely that difficult....for me. Everyone around me? Not so much. Acting was not what I wanted to do in life though. It was more that so any of my friends were doing it that I got pulled into it.
visiblysane ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:04:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Perfect actors are con artists. Why? Because they don't over emphatise simple emotions so some stupid brain dead idiot would understand what is happening.
If you have ever seen a real con artists at its best, then you have seen one hell of a work of art. If you have seen a movie then congrats you have seen garbage.
TheFuckNameYouWant ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:54:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So.. you're saying you don't like tv or movies? I mean, that's cool man, no worries.
visiblysane ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:19:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Was referring to actor's skill being garbage compared to a con artist. One is fiction and basically make belief and other is reality. Who do you think is better? The one that lies and over emphasises things they have learned and seen before or someone that lies and makes reality become even more real while their very own livelihood depends on being believable.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:08:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:36:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
BoneslyGrifter ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:23:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a musician (or comedian, I'm sure, though I'm not one), is another form of performance, and requires similar skills to acting: situational awareness, a feel and personal investment in the material, timing/pacing, etc.
wjbc ยท 2718 points ยท Posted at 12:41:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write and sell books. Most people seem to think that if they just sat down and typed, they could be a successful author. They should try it sometime. I have tremendous respect for successful professional authors, it's hard work and it takes talent very few people have. It also takes a big leap of faith to even try.
fx32 ยท 925 points ยท Posted at 13:42:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It annoys me quite a bit how difficult it is to write compelling stories. I have plenty of vague ideas, and I often write them down, wishing I could do more with it.
But then you have to find a way to remove all the plot holes, make it believable, yet keep it interesting by introducing a certain amount of intrigue and twists. And that's still the relatively easy part... the most difficult part in my opinion is fleshing out interesting characters, making them interact in a way which continuously adds depth yet also makes them fit into the main plot line.
I feel like writing would be 90% thinking and taking notes, plotting causality and relationship diagrams and timelines containing events, somehow making it all fit into your own brain, not confusing yourself too much with all the possible options; and only 10% typing.
[deleted] ยท 1291 points ยท Posted at 14:32:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Daughter of a professional author here. I've seen my mother go through the writing-->publishing-->editing-->marketing process dozens of times, and here's my take to it.
Any idiot can come up with a story idea and write it out. First drafts always, ALWAYS look like shit. They read like shit. They're always pure garbage. My mother has to rewrite her stories several times before her editor is even willing to hear about it.
The real job of an author really is not to only come up with an interesting, compelling story but to flesh it out and watch as you are forced to completely rip it to shreds and then build it back up, change things, and redo everything several times over.
This is why authors have editors. It's naive to think everything you see in a book is the author's original work- that poor person had to rewrite that several times over. They were made to change tons of stuff over and over. I know this because it's literally all I hear about at the dinner table.
So yeah. Anyone can write, but it takes drive to become a published author.
Edit: because everyone in my inbox keeps asking, my mother writes gay erotica novels.
clintmccool ยท 752 points ยท Posted at 16:48:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Tell your mom she shouldn't have killed Fred.
Ahdilable ยท 233 points ยท Posted at 19:42:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Why give women consent? Do you give dogs consent you rape them? Its stupid really....my 6 year old son loves my black dick.
Rodents210 ยท 98 points ยท Posted at 21:33:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
She's still in Azkaban as of right now, 17 years after the end of the story. She's been in there longer than Bellatrix Lestrange was. I think a life sentence was better than killing her off.
aPintSizedLion ยท 72 points ยท Posted at 22:01:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Probably found a way to make the cell pink too, the bitch
riddlemetom ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 23:52:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"I WILL HAVE ORDER...and all of my kitten collector's plates in my Azkaban cell."
wjweimar ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:00:25 on February 7, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Dammit it's probably true.
FashoFash0 ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 03:06:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
that, and she was literally gang-raped by a pack of angry centaurs... personally I thought that was enough.
Rodents210 ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 03:08:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
She went on to do more evil shit well after that, though.
FashoFash0 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 04:57:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
oh snap you're totally right. time for a re-read.
Kinderschlager ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 03:25:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
those poor centaurs. jumping on a grenade and it didnt even work
Man_Of_Spiders ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:25:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think it was confirmed she was put in Azkaban.
rillip ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:45:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And while you're at it can you just find a way to roast the bitch?
ramones365 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:35:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well she was gang raped by Centaurs so.
electricmaster23 ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 19:51:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Right," said Fred.
RikM ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:45:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As he started up the step.
gruffity ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:30:37 on February 3, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
One in each hand and steady as we go๐ต
Lez_B_Proud ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 21:02:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And she should have kept at least Tonks or Lupin alive. They didn't both have to die -_-
AlwaysWannaDie ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 23:54:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
She wanted to make a new connection with Harry Potter, parents died from evil, great guys, -> new harry potter
Lez_B_Proud ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:19:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously? That actually makes a lot of sense. That's cool!
AlwaysWannaDie ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 00:23:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Though I agree that the killing was so bad, it was "off-camera" in the books and was so half-assed, yeah Lupin and Tonks died, tragic, oh oh oh and Fred, seriously that shit killed me I have a twin brother and I dont think Rowling actually knows how deep that bond go. I wouldn't know what to do if it happened to me
Piddly_Penguin_Army ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 14:13:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Rowling has also said it was to show the child victims in war. Also to contrast how Teddy grew up, surrounded by love, and Harry, who grew up with the Dursleys.
Livingmylife96 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 22:15:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I hope that really is one of JKR's kids.
cactuscat ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:37:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because J. K. Rowling is the only female author.
clintmccool ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:40:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
it was a subtle critique of the sexism in the publishing industry
GrollTheLicker ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:23:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nah Fred had to die for Susan to grow.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:15:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
GrollTheLicker ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:43:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fred and Susan would know
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:46:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:19:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fred's dead.
seekhimthere ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:01:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like the last couple of books didn't get anywhere near the editing of the others.
QueenOfTheSlayers ยท 42 points ยท Posted at 19:07:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a professional author going through my first rounds of publishing and my editors were really clear up front that they loved my idea, but wanted me to rewrite the entire thing. I was upset at first but as I worked on the second draft I realized they were right. Writing a book is easy, revision is hard. Revision/editing is the worst. I can pop out a first draft in less than 2 months, but I have to force myself to edit. I'm personally too close to the action, I need that extra pair of eyes to point out when things don't work. Personally, I know X's motivation for things, but if my editor can't figure it out then I didn't do a good job explaining it.
MentalJack ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 11:54:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do you like, work a normal job and write? Wheres the money coming from otherwise to keep you afloat.
QueenOfTheSlayers ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:59:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm still in college right now, so I have scholarship money. I have no idea how I'm going to survive when I graduate.
Funkays ยท 130 points ยท Posted at 16:41:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Have a friend who decided to start writing a story when she was like 17. Recently finished it and going through the editor interaction phase. They've made her write several endings to the story and she is unaware which one they will end up using.
[deleted] ยท 58 points ยท Posted at 19:23:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ah. I've been writing for fun since I was 16, and although I don't have any realistic goals of publishing, this would make me sooooo mad. It's my story, the execution and some points may be shit, but it's still mine... Although I guess she still made all the endings, it still irks me.
kholto ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 02:22:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You don't have to have an editor, you can publish yourself, but getting attention and sales willbe a problem unless you already have an audience. Also most people tend to get caught up in their own little loop of logic, understanding or opinion in some way, many of your favorite authors would not be the same at all without their editor.
MisterTwindle ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 06:59:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Or you can have beta readers then get published normally.
Beta readers are better because they ARE your audience and they know what works better than some forty year old white guy who thinks every single part of a story has to be exciting as fuck.
cactuscat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:16:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Reading stuff that hasn't been well edited sucks balls.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 07:43:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wouldn't stand by it. You either like what I wrote and want to help me publish it or you don't.
If you want to give me pointers and some ideas that's fine but I don't want people giving me orders on what I have to do with my story.
Funkays ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:30:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Haha yeah so she has endings with different people dying and living so it'll be interesting to see which they decide is best
lntoTheSky ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:08:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Literally the hardest part about writing right there. I've read so many good books and short stories that fell flat on their face in the conclusion. I'm not saying I could do any better, I can't even write the last paragraph of a college essay. But, I can definitely tell when someone is doing it right, and I can probably count the examples on one hand for every hundred or so books I read.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:10:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I began writing when I was 10. (It was terrible writing, but yes I did start writing back then...on my own, outside of school.) I'm in my early 30s, and only now do I feel confident I can actually put into a story what I want to put into it.
It's not at all uncommon for "new" writers to actually publish their first book in their 30s, at least in the science fiction and fantasy genre. And all of them had been practicing the craft with original works that didn't get published, or lots and lots of fanfiction, or writing professionally in another context, or all of the above, for many years before that.
I began to be paid for my writing ~5 years ago--but for my technical writing, not fiction. I expect it'll be a few more years before I am able to publish original fiction successfully.
deliciouscorn ยท 40 points ยท Posted at 18:40:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've always harbored the theory that the first 3 Harry Potter books are so much tighter-written than the bloated messes that followed because the editors got scared of pissing off this suddenly super-valuable author.
SG_Dave ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 20:19:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Very likely. The more star power a writer has, the less the editor interferes, especially if they haven't been editing that specific writer for very long.
GRRM is a great example of this. The first few ASOIAF books were relatively succint, and didn't drop pace much. Then somewhere between A Storm of Swords, and A Feast for Crows GRRM started getting away with too much since the publishers didn't want to "stifle" him. The books started bloating, and thus the timeline for writing expanded.
totomaya ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 03:02:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This definitely happened with GRRM.
baslisks ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:08:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
ridley scott is a great director to look at for an example of this...
jonahedjones ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:52:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ridley Scott isn't a bad example but the best example is old George Lucas.
baslisks ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:56:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
fucking prometheus?
george lucas has done a handful of movies. Ridley over directs tons more movies.
DrBadIdea ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:11:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I always wondered why Riordan and many other authors' quality gradually goes down during a series. This makes perfect sense now. (I'm talking about heroes of Olympus, not the first pj series)
(Percy Jackson is so much better than Harry Potter, but only because PJ is everthing I want in a book series)
DrBadIdea ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:12:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I always wondered why Riordan and many other authors seem to go off on the deep end gradually during a series. This makes perfect sense now. (I'm talking about heroes of Olympus, not the first pj series)
Evisrayle ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:06:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Working on my first book; not even close to finished.
I spend way, WAY more time reading it than I do writing. With every read-through, there's a "that doesn't read quite right" moment or ten. I ask other people for feedback all the time because I know that there are things that make perfect sense to me, but absolutely none to people who don't have the entire universe of the book's setting in their head.
Read. Change something. Read again. Change again. Read more. Scrap that entire chapter. Rewrite it. Rewrite it again. Reorganize something in the next chapter. Change the dialogue because "would he really say it that way?". Read it again. Scrap the new dialogue, anyway.
...and on that note, gonna get off Reddit and go back to editing.
redditcher ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:02:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Did you complete your first draft, or are you constantly revising without reaching the end of the narrative? Different writers have different methods, but I find it is best to :
Complete the story without looking back.
Let it rest, read the whole thing a few weeks later (abstain from editing while you go through it).
Re-write it.
Polish it.
If you're satisfied (re-do step 3 and 4 if need be), then show it to your reading circle. Not before.
And you can't polish a first draft, since you can't polish a mess.
But if that's what you're already doing, or if you're satisfied with your method, disregard this. Nevertheless, I recommend The Modern Library Writer's Workshop by Stephen Koch. :)
Evisrayle ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:44:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think that, generally, the point of writing the whole thing down once, first, is to give you an idea of what you want it to be. All the ideas you have while writing that you couldn't implement without scrapping a lot of existing content, that's what drives the need for large-scale rewrites, I think.
I used to make indie games for funsies; I've learned (the hard way) the importance of figuring all that out before you even get close to starting. Without that foresight, some (read: so, so many) things are so much harder to write in after you've started that they end up in the "welp, it'll be nice to see that in the sequel" pile, so I tried to avoid that pitfall in my writing.
That being said, I'm not perfect by any means and I still think of things I want to do while I'm in the middle of a chapter. On the bright side, though, I've found it substantially easier to clean up writing than games because the "well the bedrock of the medium just doesn't accomodate that" wall is much softer when the bedrock is "a previous chapter" rather than "the engine on which everything else is built".
So I suppose my method ends up being somewhat similar: the story was complete long before I started writing it, so my first writing is a "re-writing" in that sense. The issue has been putting it on paper in a clear, interesting, and compelling way; shit's hard.
evylllint ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:59:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
...so the answer is a "No, I did not finish my first draft."
Evisrayle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:27:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And you've addressed the 10% of the question that I didn't, explicitly. Thanks; there might be been some people still unclear on that. :)
walkerlucas ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:49:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My mum is an author!
TRiG_Ireland ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:31:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Apparently Kipling's Kim, one of the gems of the literary world (there can be few greater wordsmiths than Rudyard Kipling) went without the services of an editor. There are many emendations, but all in Kipling's own hand. But then, some people are geniuses.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:32:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I wrote a book two years ago and the editing and revising were torturous.
youssarian ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:43:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
This is what makes me a bit hesitant to try getting published in the traditional way. I feel like my story would get changed up to the point my characters would be far from how I imagined them. At that point it wouldn't even be my story anymore, just something doctored to be pleasing to the masses.
Edit: The hell am I being downvoted for? If I'm misunderstanding how the editing process works, throw me a bone and explain it to me.
[deleted] ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 15:20:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That really isn't how it works and what happens.
youssarian ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:06:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Care to explain what happens? :P
[deleted] ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 19:21:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
It's just not like that Family Guy episode where Hollywood completely changes Brian's TV show.
An editor doesn't tell you to change your female 16 year old protagonist from New York into a 45 year old man from Delaware. That's not what they do.
Editing is about things like ensuring the narrative is consistent, the characters aren't two-dimensional and perhaps most importantly: there isn't any pointless dreck. It's not uncommon for them to suggest you completely get rid of chapter 3 and 12, and that chapter one should be cut entirely because it'd be better starting at 2.
Editing like this is also the job of the author. You are supposed to do all this as best you can before even sending the manuscript off. An editor is a trained professional who suggests and encourages all the above but they're just better at it than you are.
They wouldn't suggest completely changing everything to appeal to the masses. It's also important to research your publishing house and send it to the right one. You don't just randomly fire them off and hope for the best. You wouldn't send a scifi novel to a publishing house like Mills and Boon for example.
If your novel is set in India they won't tell you to change it to Chile. They'll ask why it is in India and you should be able to answer it.
youssarian ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:41:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I see. That makes sense out of a lot of things.
opolaski ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 04:46:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Let's be clear: You will have to murder parts of your story.
Much of it will be boring, pointless, or awful.
Your book will start off like a 1 year old - messy, disgusting, and incomprehensible. It's yours and your editors' job to nourish that book until it's old enough to survive on its own. But it will be nothing like your original book.
Heimdyll ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:36:05 on January 29, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That being said, if its your first book, you'll either agree or feel that it's the best thing ever.
Source: NaNoWriMo
vicrally ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 15:09:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Except you'll be doing all the changing yourself. 4 drafts is about the minimum you're gonna have to do before sending out query letters.
MotherJoanHazy ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:19:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It doesn't have to be by yourself (at least, the final draft). You can pay professional freelance editors like me to work with you on your manuscript before sending out queries. I've helped several authors to secure publishing deals this way.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 20:02:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
This is true but I do urge writers to at least try and edit on their own as well. It's a huge learning curve and it makes you learn a lot about craft. A writer who never edits outside of spell checking isn't a proper writer in my opinion. I can't stress enough how important self-editing is and what it teaches you about writing.
MotherJoanHazy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:33:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Absolutely! I always encourage writers to go through the process themselves, and when their draft is ready for editing, rather than just correcting it without explanation, I 'coach' them through it, so they're learning the main tenets of structural editing as we work together. It's usually a very fruitful and rewarding process.
ericpaz ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:48:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A good editor's job is to help bridge the gap between what you imagined and the words you put on the page to describe what you imagined. Without a second pair of eyes it's easy to mistake what you imagined for what you wrote. It will still be your story, but it will be much more like the story you wanted to write in the first place.
(Source: Former copy editor)
pointlessbeats ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:33:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So self-publish. It's incredibly common these days and a great way for you to keep what you want.
GrollTheLicker ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:27:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's also an easy way to end up with books that aren't great. For every great self published book there is a metric tonne of poorly written drivel.
RogerThatKid ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:49:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is great news to me. I am on my third rewrite of a story that I feel is really interesting, and it's confidence inspiring to know that I'm not the only one who has had to gut a story a couple times because it just wasn't right.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:12:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think this is something that is true of nearly every profession. In fact, I think it's what seperates an amatuer from a professional. Most people can get the initial parts of just about anything, getting into the details is where it gets hard.
Happy_Laugh_Guy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:35:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hi, thank you for typing this out. I try to convey this message to people so often, and it's like nobody understands how many hands go into a finished bestseller. I'm so excited for the day people tell me which parts of my books are shit and then when I change them, they change them a little and then we see how they do.
First conference is in April after a little over 2 years of steady releases. Just ordered new business cards. I'm comin for some of that pie your mom's got.
Nah jk. Thanks for the perspective though.
Imbusyyoudick ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:13:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Writing is re-writing"
lntoTheSky ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:13:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think this is the case with any art form, really. As a painter and graphic artist, I can force myself to go through artists' block by sitting down for maybe 60 seconds and come up with an idea. I can put that idea on paper in maybe an hour or two. From there I can spend tens of hours fixing the most minute details that most people don't even notice, but the collection of all of the details is the difference between something that works and something that is total garbage. Then of course I'm never really satisfied with anything I make, and everything feels like a work in progress, no matter how many hours are put into it.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:21:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What kind of stories does she write? :)
CaptainAsshat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:26:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Kill your darlings, and all that.
shalafi71 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:58:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Jesus. You just described writing a web site.
Marimba_Ani ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:38:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Harlan Ellison would beg to differ.
Darius_Miles ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:22:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well said. Reminds me of this little video I just came across.
thepinkestpenguin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:33:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you for this, you just convinced me to re-edit a story that I won't let ANYBODY look at because it's "Nazi face melting" levels of terrible.
wjbc ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 13:44:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Don't forget that even if you write a great story, then you have to sell it.
PartyPorpoise ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:19:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, yeah, publishing can be a real bitch. Even the best and most popular authors often got rejected multiple times before getting published. A lot of people want to be professional writers, there's a lot of competition. And a lot of published books end up losing money.
ingefromsnosa ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:47:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think people realize just how much competition there is. I used to work for a literary agent. Hundreds of query letters a week, 99.9% went straight to the recycling bin without the agent ever seeing them. If I liked a manuscript enough to refer it to the agent, she had to like it enough to agree to take it on. Then it had to be rewritten several times before she would even consider shopping it to an editor.
PartyPorpoise ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:00:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, it's a pretty intense business. Even the most acclaimed and successful authors will tell you they've been rejected a lot. I think sometimes people will read a shitty but successful book and think that it must be easy to get published. And, yeah, shitty books do get published sometimes... But quality isn't the only factor. With so many people trying to get published, not all of the rejected books are bad. A big part of it is publishing at the right time, and it certainly doesn't hurt to have connections.
And even if you don't go through a publishing company, like deciding to self-publish on Kindle, that still takes a lot of work too. Everyone thinks that self-publishing is even easier, but it can be just as hard. Like, it's a lot harder to advertise. Even traditionally published authors often have to do their own advertising, but it's a bit easier for them. Most review shows and websites won't look at self-published works. If you try to sell physical copies, most bookstores won't stock them. (hell, it's hard enough for traditionally published authors to get space) Going off of that, most bookstores won't let self-published authors do signings or events at their stores.
apm588 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:33:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I worked on 5 feature films, and was a script assistant on 3 of them. We spent hours at a time in a room just talking about why the pages of the script didn't work. We would constantly come up with ideas on what to do, and then have to sift through all of that to see if anything would stick.
Our writers were all Hollywood vets. It's a great lesson in humility and craft when you are seeing talented, working Hollywood writers constantly have to resubmit because their current draft just doesn't cut it.
As someone who loves storytelling and writing, it teaches you that you have to put in the work. You're not gonna strike gold on your first shot. And not everyone can do this work
quilladdiction ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:03:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And let's not forget the hurdle of actually starting, either. I've got about a zillion notes on a bunch of different stories, none of which are finished because every time I try to start I write something down and erase it ten minutes later because it sounds horrible and I can't continue from there. Chapters from the middle of the story, sure, but chapter one? Not working. Ever.
jmwbb ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:13:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I resent you, every once in a while I run into an idea for a few paragraphs of kick ass writing. I could never develop enough of a plot for there to actually be holes in it.
DasKatze500 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:38:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You missed the difficultly of actually writing well enough to a professional standard. So much harder then people realise. It's not just writing with a flowery prose.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:03:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well in contemporary writing most people would tell you to cut the flowery crap anyway.
Boukish ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:23:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah the Hemingway school of thought is pretty predominant nowadays.
overusesellipses ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:17:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And do it all without overusing tropes and cliches that are so easy to just toss in because they seem like a good idea at the time.
noggin-scratcher ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:23:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Conversely, the opposite trap is to sink thousands of hours into "world-building"; figuring out all the details of your fictional geography, history, economy, social hierarchy, and so on down to local customs and idioms... all without actually writing a single chapter of a story set in that world.
Which often seems to end up laden down with unnecessary details that the author expects you to learn/remember, but it's been taking up so much of their head for so long that they don't see how ridiculously overcomplicated it's gotten, or how the dozens of nouns they've invented sound silly.
So there's something to be said for the opposite approach, where you just start writing words, accept that most of them will eventually be thrown away, and leave figuring out the details until the direction of your writing takes you to a point where the details are actually important.
PartyPorpoise ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:17:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I only write as a hobby, but still, there's a TON of planning that goes into a story. And plenty of research. Even if you're writing a hardcore fantasy novel, you'll still find yourself doing research on all kinds of topics. I Google so many weird questions, ha ha.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:56:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a teenager hoping to be a professional author. I've been working on the same story since sixth grade (junior in high school now) and let me tell you, it's exhausting. Having to work out things I put no thought into when I first started writing it as a tween and coming up with new intrigues, trying to tie things together to stay consistent between books in the series, coming up with new characters, refining relationships, minor, recurring characters, timelines, etc. it's so hard and stressful and hard to keep track of. I forget ideas too often and I have so many tiny papers floating around with tidbits of information.
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love writing. Creating an entire universe with a story is amazing, but also immense amounts of work and thinking. Still wouldn't trade it for anything.
tweeex ยท 215 points ยท Posted at 15:14:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've never really understood this. Writing seems to be the one creative art where a lot of people go "Hey, I could do that" and try to sit down and bang out a story and don't understand why it doesn't work. I guess this happens because a lot of people can "write" (in the sense of putting words together to form a coherent thoughts), but confuse that ability with actual narrative prowess.
It's like running. Most anyone can run, but if you'd never trained for running a day in your life, you wouldn't think you could go out and run a half marathon, would you? Writing's just the same. It takes talent, yes, but it also takes practice.
casualguy ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 19:51:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
It's very true. I'm a journalist, but I also do quite a bit of copywriting. Often copywriting clients say, "Why are you charging me ยฃยฃยฃ a day for something I could myself?"
My stock response is this:
Go ahead and write your copy. But...
Based on your salary, your time is worth ยฃยฃยฃยฃ a day (whereas I only cost ยฃยฃยฃ) so it makes sense for you to use me.
Also, it will take you three days, whereas it would take me one. So you will have "spent" ยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃ not, ยฃยฃยฃ.
And it won't be very good, because you don't write all day, every day. So having wasted three of your days, you may still need one of mine. Which is ยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃ+ยฃยฃยฃ.
If you want to find someone who only charges you ยฃ, that's cool too. But I'm quick and maybe they'll take two days (ยฃยฃ), I have a strong track record and you will not have to spend a day of your time going through it (ยฃยฃยฃยฃ), figuring out what is wrong and going back to Mr ยฃ (bringing your cost up to ยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃ). If they really suck, you may still come to me, in which case, your cost will be ยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃ.
I am confident enough that you will like what I do, so I always include one set of reasonable changes in my quote of ยฃยฃยฃ.
Quite a lot of them still spend ages days doing it themselves. I once rewrote a document that someone had wasted at least ยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃ on. I charged the ยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃยฃ. Had they come to me in the beginning, this is all it would have cost them.
luminousbeing9 ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 16:49:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is one of the better analogies I've seen.
And like you mentioned, it's one of the few creative arts where people get the impression that "I can do that!" Because it's so similar (in theory) to what they do every day. Not everybody thinks they can paint or sculpt or play an instrument, because they recognize that it takes interest and skill to learn. But writing words? "Everybody who knows how to read can do that. I've been doing that for years!" Not realizing that story structure and command of language require skill to paint a visual or evoke/convey an emotion using only words.
Oaden ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:05:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Its not just that anyone can write, but most people come up with ideas for stories from time to time. That makes it seem like you're almost there. Writing + Great idea = Great Novel
Of course the actual tricky part is converting thoughts into compelling narrative.
Its a bit like game design, most people have a "Great idea" for a game, what stops people from thinking they can make great games is that far less people can program
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:23:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep. On a bet, Jim Butcher wrote a great series out of two terrible ideas.
mediaboy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:49:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
On a bet iirc?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:56:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep. Good story out of two lame ideas.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:15:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ideas are actually super-cheap to come by. It's easy to come up wtih an idea. That's why those Craigslist ads where someone wants to hire a ghostwriter to develop their idea is laughable--it's not the idea that's the hard part! It's the hours and hours of mulling over execution, and the additional hours upon hours of actually doing to work to type something with a beginning, middle, and end!
So yeah...those people who expect a ghost writer will take their Wonderful! Idea! and make it into a full-fledged product for 1% of potential profit are complete idiots and should be ashamed of themselves for taking advantage of really young would-be writers who make the mistake of thinking that's anywhere remotely close to fair.
Psudopod ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:42:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My dad tried to write a guide on a new, niche programming language for which there has yet to be an approachable guide published. He is the local expert, uses it every day, and could have honestly made a few bucks selling "The Only Guide You'll Get!" for this language.
He has never touched a creative venture, even something as creative as a 50 page epub on something he is an expert at. He got as far as a few of the bullet points for what would be included before he burned out on the rush of thinking of it, thinking of names for it, thinking of getting a little notoriety in his circles for having published it. That was, like, years ago. Making things does not run on motivation, but discipline.
WolfgodApocalypse ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:27:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As someone who has been in the writing business for about two years now, can confirm, its pretty difficult to do. Especially marketing anything you can think of on your own.
JefferyRussell ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:35:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think it's also harder with writing for the writer to separate themselves enough to give a really objective look at what they wrote. John Cleese said something along the lines of "The skills you need to determine if it's good and bad are precisely the same skills you need to be good at actually doing it." I think that rings reasonably true with a lot of writing for people making their first attempts at it. I have the utmost respect for people who are able to offer helpful critiques to aspiring authors.
Dodgiestyle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:29:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's like food. Just because I eat every day doesn't mean I know anything about what good cuisine is.
Danger-Wolf ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:08:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Writing is difficult because the act of reading words takes up time. So if you're trying to summon a particular image or event, you have to use the language in tandem with the effect you're trying to achieve. Writing isn't about telling a story. The act of writing is to create a brilliant illusion and maintain a fantasy that doesn't get in the way of itself. Words are complicated. If one of them is wrong, the whole paragraph can crumble. Of more than one is wrong, the story will suffer for it.
PartyPorpoise ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:24:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ha ha, well-said. I guess it's because people don't realize how much work and planning goes into writing a good story. They think that you just sit down and write. But, writers plan their stories out beforehand. If you try to make it up as you go along, it probably won't be very good. (at least for me, ha ha) There are multiple drafts involved. You have to make sure that there are no plot holes or redundancies. Even if you're writing like, a hardcore fantasy novel, you're going to find yourself doing some kind of research.
FourO40 ยท 154 points ยท Posted at 15:47:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone who's written several essays in high school and college should know how fucking hard it is to write even a few pages
wjbc ยท 75 points ยท Posted at 15:50:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, five pages is hard, imagine 200 or 1000.
Aardvark_Man ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 01:17:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's what always impresses me.
Fleshing out a bare bones story to 1000 pages, while keeping it interesting, moving and making sense.
Specken_zee_Doitch ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:06:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And that's only the writing part.
Thinks_Too_Logically ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 17:10:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I disagree. High school basically gives you a formula for how to write an essay. I wouldn't say it's like filling in the blanks, but it's not difficult to write for that setting. At some point it's harder to keep your writing under 20 pages.
Writing a book is entirely different. You haven't been given a structure to follow and you haven't been trained to write books for 8+ years. Also, stories are written in almost an entirely different dialect from what you'd use in an essay. High school and college condition you to use simple English for the sake of communication, stories aren't about communicating the themes found in Of Mice and Men or about restrictions and guidelines in a project. Essays and books are entirely different.
kaiju-taxi ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:12:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's hard for me to write a paragraph, let alone a page.
nessie7 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 21:44:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's hard for me to write even a
45b16 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:23:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I had to write a 10 page short story recently and it's so much harder than writing an essay.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:29:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I often have trouble reigning in my papers and have to edit them down to the size required.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:59:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I would get points off for writing too much. :(
[deleted] ยท 44 points ยท Posted at 13:29:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think you should write a book about this
wjbc ยท 40 points ยท Posted at 13:30:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe when I'm retired from a "real" job. /s
i_bite_right ยท 116 points ยท Posted at 16:35:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Too many people think that creative fields take little to no effort. Especially writing. I mean, it's just thinking about stuff and typing, so how hard can it be, ha ha? Anyone can do it. Authors, man, they have all the luck. They get to have fun all day just making up things.
Then the budding Faulkners, Prousts, and Woolfs actually try it.
GrollTheLicker ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:30:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The budding Woolfs always write about the same thing as well!
It's always some lame plot about an Author Insert protagonist learning to deal with their Lycanthropy.
LeoLittleCry ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:58:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Or about how they're the only one who sees things the way they REALLY are.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:55:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"And then it was dark and it seemed really scary outside." Perfect.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:48:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not even a professional, and I still get annoyed at people coming up to me and saying "Hey, I have this killer idea! I'll tell you about it, you write it out, and we'll split the profits."
Um, no, Ideas are cheap.
CuteCatGirl_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:34:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For me, the hardest thing about writing is getting the book to have substance and not be some shitty plot with no detail.
vicrally ยท 128 points ยท Posted at 15:06:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fuck yeah it is especially the selling part. Just finished my first book and I'm pretty reassured its not gonna get published. But 40 rejections reassured me. Working on two more books right now . I'm not gonna let one failure stop me.
PrototypeT800 ยท 127 points ยท Posted at 15:34:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Isn't 40 rejections below average?
I heard most books approach the triple digits before they are finally published.
SiarAlbannach ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 20:01:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I read it takes on average of five novels written, sent to publishers and 100% rejected before an author gets their first book published.
quilladdiction ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:05:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And for some reason that is oddly comforting. At least I've got leeway before I start feeling like an utter failure...
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:00:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Really? That sounds terrible.
PrototypeT800 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 10:35:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I remember watching a video a while back of an agent who worked at a publishing house. Since he received so many manuscripts and books, he would usually not even read the book itself. He would just skim the letter the author attached talking about the book and generally veto the entire submission based on word choice, sentence structure, and misspelled words. If it passed all of those and sounded interesting, he might skim the first chapter.
It's funny, I believe even the first harry potter book was rejected 12 times.
[deleted] ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 15:36:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm glad it hasn't stopped you because what happened to you is pretty normal.
youre_being_creepy ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 19:02:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A good thing to do is to keep one big binder for your rejections, and a smaller one for your acceptances. I've seen my old professors (artists) show their rejection binders and it's fucking filled.
It makes those good letters great.
GeneralTomfoolery ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:38:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
tenehemia ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:25:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you really do think that your book won't be published, publish it yourself as an ebook. There's a lot of ways to sell it and publishing this way is very easy. Going digital with it might seem like it's not a "real book", but it is. It also might seem like you won't earn as much, but let me assure you - you can earn more. Ebooks might have a lower price tag than hardcovers, but you also get a much bigger share of the royalties.
Source: I have more than a hundred published books of varying lengths and do this for a living.
magnora7 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:43:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hypothetically if I have a good idea for 2 really solid non-fiction 150 page books, how much money do you think I could make from them as ebooks if they sold decently? Can you publish it as an ebook and then later publish with a physical publisher?
tenehemia ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:50:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The money is totally unpredictable, and has a lot to do with how much effort you put into marketing it (and its quality of course). You can absolutely switch from ebook to paper. If you use an exclusive publishing option like Kindle Unlimited there can be some constraints on that, but you can always pull your title from Amazon.
If you've got a book, publish it. It is easy and gets you out there.
magnora7 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:56:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks for the response. Is the ebook market small compared to the printed book market?
WriteandRead ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:54:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, its huge. It makes up something like 20-30% of the book selling market i think. It was growing pretty rapidly as well over the last few years, but i think that growth rate has tailed off somewhat and now it appears that paperback/hardcover book and Ebook sales have begun to level off against each other.
If you are to sell an Ebook, do it on Amazon, they are easily the single largest Ebook distributor by a long long way
magnora7 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:27:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you very much for the advice and info, I think I may try this.
Kyddeath ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:28:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was talking to a self published author and she makes over2thousand a month. Best month was 12k
sallen12132 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:16:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not an author, but I am well versed in failing my fucking ass off... with that said props for continuing on! I'm finally getting a small taste of success in my own field because i took the hits and kept going. You'll get there eventually
Jysta_Fitendor ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:44:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hey, kudos on you mate! I haven't even made it through a full draft! Keep on trying though, it only takes one yes (I think).
Waxgains ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:05:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can I read your book?
vicrally ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:08:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes
darkbreak ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:40:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Keep working at it man. I'm pulling for you. Working on a book of my own. I'm hoping to turn it into a series. Nothing's finished yet but I'm still chipping away.
Skyblacker ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:10:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Try 80 rejections.
Eff it, at least I still have a hot body. Decided to train to run a 5K instead.
Kyddeath ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:26:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Amazon self publish
Shnooky6 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:16:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Good to know! I'm a 15 year old writing a graphic novel (more on the manga side) about Alexander Hamilton, and im planning on using the broadway musical "Hamilton" fanbase. My mom's friend works for simon and schuster so its guaranteed they'll take a look at what i submit. So i've got an audience and i guess a better chance than most have. How many rejects should I expect?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:17:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Bran_Solo ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:50:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Publish it yourself.
JelzooJim ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 21:10:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you're looking to self-publish, give me a shout. I recently set up a service offering book design and formatting.
LordMitchimus ยท 152 points ยท Posted at 17:20:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Margaret Atwood once made a joke about a discussion with a brain surgeon. Atwood said she was an author, and the surgeon said "Oh that's great! I want to write once I retire." And she said "That's funny! I was going to become a brain surgeon after I retire!" In other words, anybody can write. Not everybody should, and it takes a tremendous amount of talent to write well.
[deleted] ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 23:43:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I get her point and the overall sentiment that the arts are often not respected, but it's really not the same. Writing as a hobby in your retirement is something enjoyable many people can do. It doesn't have to amount to anything, but a good time. On the other hand, you can't casually dabble in brain surgery.
I_tinerant ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 05:42:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not with that attitude. Now hand me that pointy knifey thing.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:38:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:33:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
its all about the victims willingness to buy into your ploy >:)
bkrassn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:17:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well, not in a first world nation at least...
RogerThatKid ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:00:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Haha that is excellent.
YesNoIDKtbh ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:09:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't see the problem here, it's not like it's brain surg... fuck.
senatorskeletor ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:39:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've just started this, and you're right. In some senses I'm happy with my writing, and in most senses I am not. Like after years of criticizing flat characters in books and on screen, now I'm like, "fuck, how do I make characters interesting? Uh, Sarah was so deep because she was both smart and a badass. Great stuff, I want to shoot myself."
sjhock ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:52:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Aspiring author here. Can confirm. Life is pain.
sonalogy ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 20:10:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Professional writer here--short fiction, essays and plays.
Self-publishing has really distorted what it means to be a writer. I'm not anti-indie publishing; there a definitely some books that are better suited to being distributed and sold that way. (Heck, poetry has a long tradition of that in the self-published chapbook.) But when everyone can write and sell a book.... well, most of them aren't done well.
Writing well and being published (and also being conventionally successful) are all separate things. And very few self-published books, particularly fiction, are well-crafted.
I was talking about writing on Facebook the other day, and an old friend pops up to say she's a writer too--she's writing a series of self-published fantasy novels. Hey, good for her for writing them, that takes a huge amount of effort. But a quick glance at the first chapter of her first book, and it's badly crafted. Cliches, front-loading information, over-using exposition, passive narrator.... this is all basic craft stuff. A few good writing classes, or some manuscript evaluations from someone who mentors other writers (lots of people do that) and she'd at least know that much, but getting the book published apparently outweighed learning her craft. (I give her credit for at least getting the thing properly proof-read.)
Likewise, another friend self-published a cookbook. She's a good cook, but the cookbook itself was poorly organized, the recipes were not always very clear or consistent in how they were written, and the introduction rambled. Even a small step like hiring an editor would have helped that.
That isn't to say every published book is well-written--there are definitely badly written books that sell, often 'written' by celebrities--but if you are an ordinary person, chances are you aren't going to be one of those.
I'm on the other side of things too, in that I read for a literary magazine. (One that pays authors money.) I know a lot of people who claim the industry is controlled by gatekeepers and it's all about who you know... that may help, but truthfully, most of the stuff in the slush-pile is poorly crafted. That's largely an objective measure, in that our comments at that stage are not about what we like, but clear and significant problems with craft. Perhaps a generous 10% is crafted well enough to be published, at which point it becomes a matter of editorial taste, and taste is very subjective. If you write well enough to make it into that 10%, sure, maybe knowing someone might help you.... maybe 1%-2% actually gets accepted. It's true that good work gets rejected all the time.... but most of the stuff that is rejected is not good.
Nattiejo ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:02:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I would argue it's not even necessarily talent that people lack. Obviously you do have to have a certain way with words but the main thing with professional writing is the sheer dedication. It is SO time consuming and sometimes your motivation is none existent. When you're feel unmotivated and uninspired in, say, retail (which I feel most people are) there are certain things that you can just do to pass the time, you know. But when you want to write and just can't get past that mental block you literally can't do anything. So much time and research goes into writing that blows my mind. I sometimes think I have a great idea, write a great abstract, and then read it again and think it's the dumbest thing ever. The ability to read your own stuff over and over again and not immediately cry and start again is so impressive to me.
RogerThatKid ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:13:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think that this issue can be attributed to confidence. The phrase "you are your own worst critic" is absolutely true in writing. Bear in mind that your reader is relatively forgiving, and unless it is a glaring plothole when you are reading through on a second glance, your reader will likely not be too concerned with it.
wjbc ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:05:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Many authors turn to it in desperation or write because they have always written and couldn't stop if they tried. For the rest of us, yes, motivation is a huge obstacle. But it's also easy to discount the importance of practice in writing, as in any other field.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:43:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Father currently writing a book as a thing to do when not working. He started originally in 2001. He's on his 5th total rewrite which is a completely different story and cast. Its been awesome watching him do it. I'm reading his 1st draft of the full thing and we have been talking back in forth about things that need to be changed, like the main characters whole backstory. Good friend of ours is an accomplished writer of thrillers and says this happens all the time.
Avigantimos88 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:18:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I just got into writing screenplays because I have always wanted to make films and writing a screenplay is kind of creating a movie on paper but holy fuck I had no idea how hard it is. Coming up with an idea for a movie is really fun and easy but coming up with an outline for the story is a whole different level of difficulty. I respect anyone who has a completed feature length film script. It could be shit but it took a long time and a lot of work to get a piece of shit script written.
traceyh415 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:41:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Agree. My book is being released March 8. It was a ton of work idea phase to finished product. Now, I have to work on a media campaign and sell it with all kinds of players involved.
wjbc ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:45:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Congratulations and good luck!
traceyh415 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:46:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you!!!
wee_bey ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:44:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That doesn't even account for the networking side of it. One of my best friends is a regional semi-prominent author and spends tons of time attending launches and readings just to keep her name current so she has a better chance at picking up publications. That's in addition to the hour she spends online helping other similar authors rework pieces so that they help market her future pubs/books. You really have to be connected into the scene to know journals/magazines/publishing houses before you even have a shot of having a manuscript read.
Shurikane ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:21:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Knowing this makes me want to say "fuck it", self-publish, and put a PayPal tip jar at the bottom of the table of contents.
Publishing a book would be great and all, but I do not believe I have the cojones to leave the security of my day job to go have an improbably fleeting hope at getting something on paper, let alone get it sold well enough to break even.
doublementh ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:04:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most people are shit writers. I'm writing a book right now, and I'm discovering that I am, too. Shit's draining.
fetalasmuck ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:23:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I write for a living (copywriting, occasional journalism/blogging), and I can't write fiction for the life of me.
I remember writing a story in my creative writing class in college, and the professor spent half his critique telling me how well the story was written from a technical/grammatical standpoint, and the other half telling me how unoriginal, cliched, and uninteresting it was.
That's when I knew that I was best served editing or writing non-fiction.
doublementh ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:09:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can do non-fiction. It's easy to tell a story when I can just recall a memory. Fiction has Aleta's been harder, but right now, it's a real challenge.
maiqthetrue ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:16:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Id say the same of music and art. There's more to music than just singing on key. There's more to painting than just throwing around paint.
akopajud ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 13:42:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a professional writer. Although I write long form journalism/stuff for websites, not books. But nothing annoys me more than someone claiming to be a writer because they have a shitty blog.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:51:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a 17 year old dreamer. I've loved writing my whole life and I read constantly. It's not my dream to be a writer, it's my dream to write something I'm actually satisfied with, which hasn't happened yet. For anyone who has tried, just how unrealistic is my goal? I know I'll go into English in college. I know I'll earn a degree in something English based. I imagine I'll turn out poor and passionate like most every author out there. I was thinking about maybe getting a PHD in literature or poetry, so I could be a professor and write on the side. I apologize, as I'm only using this as a place to vent.
JeffBurk ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:27:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I'm a professional writer and editor - you will never be satisfied. I say that from my own experience and the experiences of every author I know. It's because while writing, you improve at your craft. By the time you get to the end of your work, you have become better than when you started. It's pretty much true for all artistic mediums.
I have met some people that love their own writing - they have all been terrible writers.
Note - there's a difference is being satisfied and taking pride in one's own work. It's good to take pride in your accomplishments but if you're approaching writing seriously, you'll most likely never feel satisfaction.
Silva-esque_Joe ยท 45 points ยท Posted at 14:34:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone who writes is a writer
[deleted] ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 15:37:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's like saying "anyone who can hold a guitar is a guitarist"
know_me_not ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:04:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's more like saying "anyone who plays the guitar is a guitarist". Old mate up top was making a play on words that if you engage in verb you can be classified as whichever noun form of that verb is -er or -ist in the case of using the guitar for its function of playing it as an instrument.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:20:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And his reason for doing so was to undermine the point the guy above him was making, even though the argument he was making was irrelevant to the guys point.
I write things in my spare time and I don't call myself a writer. It's not an issue of verbs and nouns, it was a wider social commentary based on the subject of the thread.
Silva-esque_Joe ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:48:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, anyone who plays guitar is a guitar player
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:45:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've written two novels and I still know that I'm not a very good writer. People don't understand how hard it is.
_donotforget_ ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:50:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I love writing But my longest 'novel' is like nine pages- I go that far before I go, "Damn. I'm 17. I need to learn about the world, get some dating and travel experience, before this book is worthwhile."
I do have a blog on woodworking and am worried that it's crap writing. It's hard to tell.
Maysock ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:47:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
POST IT :D
akopajud ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:06:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't mind people like you. This is how I think of it. I play the guitar. I've never played in front of a crowd. I don't write my own songs. I just like to mess around and play songs that I love. It's a fun hobby. But I wouldn't tell someone i'm a musician.
I'm not sure if that makes sense, but it is how I think of it. You can enjoy writing and write as a hobby and have a blog. But if you go around telling people that you're some great writer, because you have a blog, that annoys me.
thejuliemeister ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:46:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd say also being generally paid to write. People tend to think they can easily be paid for writing articles and getting published. It's actually really hard to get paid to write anything. Many of the major online sites like Buzzfeed or HuffPost don't pay per article. Source: Professional writer, have had many unpaid articles before finally landing steady work.
KingBooRadley ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:56:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Receiving reddit gold for your well constructed comment? Have you gone pro?
wjbc ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:41:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not quitting my day job.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:57:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've written a page, and I'm already regretting the page I wrote.
lupaonreddit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:52:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I published my first nonfiction book with a small press in 2006. I just this past December managed to sign on with a professional agency. People really don't understand how much work it is beyond the initial draft. As others have mentioned there's the editing and re-editing and scrapping half the damned book, and plenty of research whether you're writing fic or nonfic. Then you have to figure out how you want it published (ideally, anyway). Even if you get picked up by a publisher, you still have a lot of work to do, both with managing the manuscript, and with TONS of promotion. You cannot be afraid to sell your work AND yourself.
wjbc ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:04:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I remember Isaac Asimov decided to write science fiction in the style of a history book because he could make it up instead of research it. But later he decided making it up was hard work as well, and wrote a number of history and science books.
lupaonreddit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:12:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I suck at fiction, but I know a lot of fiction writers. They put in at least as much work as I do, if not more, because I tend to write about things I already know a decent amount about. They're often delving into brand-new territory.
LeoLittleCry ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:53:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ugh, except for the people who actually do just sit down one day and start pumping out amazingly successful novels with no background in writing. Like Terry Goodkind. Fuck that guy. And by "fuck that guy" I mean I absolutely love his books and own a few of them.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:59:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most people think that?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:08:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So much this. I come from a very literate family, consider myself well read and when I sat down to write my first novel, and I came up with a short story at around 30,000 words. How Stephen King does it, I have no fucking idea.
KingGorilla ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:22:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That lady who wrote the twilight fanfiction and turned it into the Fifty Shades series says other wise.
stanfan114 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:23:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Writing even a short story is like climbing a mountain, writing is climbing up, editing climbing down, both very hard. Your brain gets winded.
munificent ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:43:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
People think writing is 90% cool idea, 10% slapping words together. It is 2% idea, 8% prose style, 10% organization, 80% discipline.
RogerThatKid ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:44:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As I have heard from a couple of successful authors, writing is not a talent. It is a skill. It can be improved upon with time and dedication to the craft. A bunch of authors have written over a 100,000 words of sub par books before writing one that is marketable and emotive. People have no clue. They assume its as simple as putting their good idea on paper.
Source: I am a writer hoping to one day publish a novel.
miralea ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:57:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think this is part of why NaNoWriMo bothers the fuck out of me. Basically EVERYONE on my friend-list "participates" and talks about how they're "finally going to finish their novel".
Everyone I know who is published is self-published, and their writing has earned them maybe a total of $100 in the past three years. One friend made a comment about how, "I thought I'd be making more than this by now."
More power to people who use NaNoWriMo to really push their creative limits, but I swear that entire thing has turned into "how many people are going to try and be self-published authors with their first draft this year?!"
Jounas ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:58:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I could't finish a 100 word essay about my summer in school. I know i couldn't write freaking book, let alone make anyone buy it
RhynoD ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:10:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have this same feeling about poetry. Like, congratulations, you know how to rhyme and you have a vague understanding of what a metaphor is, that does not make you a poet.
Unpopular opinion, but slam poetry is the worst thing to happen to the art. People think they can just improv a word salad and it's good just because they have a sense of rhythm as they speak. Don't get me wrong, there are some great slam poets out there and great slam poetry, but as a genre...ugh.
zeptimius ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:14:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone who wants to write a novel should watch this.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:25:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Having read rather a lot of fanfiction, which obviously has virtually no minimum requirements to entry, I've discovered a fair amount of people people can write very well, as well as an average published author, but virtually no one can write as well as a good published author. Often it's a case of good plots, but poor dialogue and no sense of 'vividness' that you get from a bestselling author, but, like I said, many pretty good published authors have the same problem, I can't really expect every hobbyist to be J K Rowling
But what amazes me is how many people literally can't seem to write English, at all. I can understand some people aren't good at spelling, English spelling is ridiculous, but many people don't seem to be aware what a tense is! Just go on fanfiction.net for anything popular (well, probably something with a large 14 year old girl audience), sort by favourites and pick one of the stories on the last page
walkerlucas ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:49:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My mum is a published author. So many people say to her, I could write a book.
No you can't. Even if you could hammer out 70,000 words they would probably sick and you wouldn't be able to sit down and edit them and deal with the rewrites.
SimpleFNG ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:53:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well. Their is self publishing. But for the love of god, get a decent editor!
ingridelena ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:57:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It does not take talent, it takes research and knowledge and maybe a bit of luck. And I say that as someone who isnt a particularly good writer but still had success in writing right off the bat.
elitegenoside ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:32:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So true. I can write an amazing page. I can create such an amazing idea. I have a few really long outlines (20+ pages). But I cannot finish a single work.
Oppodeldoc ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:33:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, ok George - you don't need to convince us, take however long you need. Just don't kill Tyrion or Jon.
wjbc ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:43:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Kill Tyrion and Jon. Got it.
Oppodeldoc ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:56:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
เฒ __เฒ
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:37:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Christopher Hitchens said it best: "There's a novel inside everyone, which is where it should stay".
lordhellion ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:01:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't consider myself a writer, but I've long been of the understanding that you're not a real writer unless writing is the hardest thing in the world for you to do.
jelvinjs7 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:18:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fuck, I've had this novel idea in my head for a couple of years, and it's taken me a few months just to finish the first draft of the first chapter.
Feeneyc17 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:36:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I try to write 1000 words a day, it makes me want to kill myself.
AoO2ImpTrip ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:06:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I do a lot of online RP in AIM/Skype/Whatever and play DnD. There are times I come up with what sounds like a brilliant idea for a storyline, but when I start trying to put it into action it starts off strong, but ends up falling flat.
I couldn't imagine trying to write an entire story and it coming out as well as I originally hoped.
Imadoc91 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:06:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've been working on a graphic novel for the last 4 years off and on, and jesus fucking christ this. It definitely isn't oh just sit down and write and it'll happen. It's more like, okay it's been two months and I have an outline of an outline of an outline of an outline and a couple of snippets of random dialogue.
TheScumAlsoRises ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:12:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sorry, to nitpick, but you are a professional author.
This
I don't think a comma is the right choice.
GreatEscortHaros ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:15:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've taken a try at this, and I've been staring at 30 pages of what I think is okay work, but I'm was too hesitant to take the story in any way for sure. I've started a second chapter and then I'm like 'wait if I change my mind I have to erase all these details and basically start from scratch'
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:39:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was once told by an author who has a new York times bestseller that authors with a published book aren't necessarily good writers. They are simply determined.
AwesomeScreenName ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:03:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most people have ideas. "Wouldn't it be great if there was a post-apocalyptic story about a zookeeper trying to take care of all the animals after civilization breaks down?" I mean, yeah -- sure, that's an interesting premise for a story.
Most people can write. I write emails and memos all day. I write posts and comments on reddit. It's not rocket science.
What most people don't realize is that turning an idea into a story by using writing is a lot of work. And the gap between idea and story is huge -- plot, characterization, dialogue; all of these things are tricky. It takes skill to make you care about Hank the zookeeper, to make you understand what he's going through, to present him with obstacles that make you want to keep reading to find out how he overcomes them. And not just skill. Hard work. Writers -- all but a handful of them -- bleed over their work. Every word that ends up in the final manuscript represents a battle.
mahmudzero ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:20:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There are some retarded successful books out there... The ones aimed at young kids (especially girls). Those authors piss me off because they exploit a reusable theme and story, but with different characters/using animals instead of people. Those authors disgust me.
Looking at hunger games and divergent series especially here.
wjbc ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:46:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I liked the Hunger Games series. Divergent wasn't as good. But again, good literature or bad, it's still work.
maxpenny42 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:05:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I love to fantasize about being a successful writer. But at some point many years ago I realized I wasn't inventing stories in my head and I sure as hell wasn't writing them down. I was outlining only the most basic aspects of what my story would be and then jumping ahead to interviews I would give where I would be praised for my innovative and amazing work. I didn't want to write, I wanted to be a famous writer.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:14:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And all the people who think they could write a book are the same ones who in school talk about how they bullshitted their papers.
I can't even imagine writing 100 pages let alone a novel or a nonfiction book
PartyPorpoise ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:14:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Oh, totally. Everyone thinks that since they have a good idea, they can write. But in writing, ideas are worthless. Being able to execute them properly is the real talent. You can give the same premise to 10 different authors and they'd come out with 10 different stories. And there's a bit more work than just "sit down and write". (though obviously that's a big part of it, ha ha) Quite a bit of planning and research (even if it's a fiction novel) goes into it. Not to mention that most writers, starting out, have bad habits that they gotta break.
CrackPipeQueen ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:50:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like books such as Fifty Shades of Grey only confirm and worsen this tenfold. I actually took the time one to seriously attempt reading it. I've read better fan fictions, involving Batman yaoi, than what this woman produced. She was trying so hard to capture that "magical, sexual essence" she ended up making it unbearably tacky. There are some really good romance novels (that most definitely include sex) that get not nearly as much credit as that piece of shit book.
nb00288 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:53:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know anyone who thinks writing a book is an easy project.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:54:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes! I've seen people think they are the next JK Rowlings, just because they spent a week on a novel. Bull shit! It took me a week just to write the main character's back story!
Dockirby ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:09:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone can simply write a book. Selling the book is the hard part.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:13:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like an amateur Geppetto whenever I write, the characters are wooden and won't come to life. They move around, but only when I pull on the strings.
Anyone can put words on paper, but writing books that sell....that takes skill, and hard work.
Psudopod ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:27:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Balancing everything that is going on in the plot, subplots, motivations, making it believable, interesting, dialogue?! Making characters speak in a way that is distinctive, true to their character, and also not just exposition after exposition. Jokes. Feelings. Writing sentences that make sense.
I can't do it, man!
I read a lot of shit fanfiction, it has to be said, you really take food writing for granted when you've only read classics and best sellers. You know what makes a good book, then you read bad fiction, then you realize what makes a bad book, then you see it, even in best sellers.
I'm always merciful when I review a fanfiction, if it is so unimaginably shit that they are notably bad amongst bad stories that I have to tell them how bad they are so I can explain it to myself how someone could make and publish such a complete mess. The shit in the rough, as it were. Even if they had no plot, bad dialogue, generic characters, no understanding of pacing, and worse grammar than me, I always tell them what they did right. There is always something. "I liked the mermaid hunters mentioned in chapter 4, I feel like you could get an interesting story out of it, and I laughed at the joke at the end of chapter 8! Keep writing, despite all the flaws I can tell you enjoyed making and sharing this, plus the end of the story read better than the beginning. You are improving with every word."
Anyways I rambled for a bit and lost the point, so I guess the point is that even writing comments on the internet is easy to do, and hard to do well.
thatEMSguy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:30:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'll type out something for /r/writingpromts and then read it, realize it's dog shit, then delete it all the time. I've written responses for a bunch of those posts and only submitted two. Shits hard yo
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:47:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh god, people are always asking me why I don't "just write a novel". I am a writer/editor and I'm good at it BUT I do NOT do creative writing. A good technical writer is VERY different from a good creative writer. I could whip up an excellent user manual but I could never write a novel.
pan_glob ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:53:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think most people think this.
83923678 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:54:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
shouldve just said sell
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:29:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm an aspiring author and this stuff scares me.
Soup_n_sammies ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:48:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ugh. Yes. I've had two books published, both YA, and I can't tell you how often I hear from people "Oh all those books are such garbage, I could write something a hundred times better and make a billion dollars."
My response is always "Great! Go ahead! Write that bestseller. I'll wait."
stinkem ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:39:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Who the fuck thinks it's easy to write a book? Most people write terribly.
sjallllday ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:54:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can confirm, am creative writing major. I'm not talented enough for this. Shit's HARD
MisterTwindle ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:00:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Try a fucking antinovel.
edwartica ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:22:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
These are the same types that think George RR Martin should just get off his lazy ass and glue his fingers to the typewriter already. Little do they know, asking a writer like him to just sit down and write will most likely result in a mediocre piece of fiction, comparable to the star wards prequels.
Tastemysoupplz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 09:45:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As someone that's been trying to write a novel for a year now (never having written one before), yes. It's way harder than I anticipated.
cactuscat ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:25:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I shy away from sitting down and typing precisely because I know it takes a bit more than that.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:05:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Unfortunately, I think a lot of popular books are written by people that think 'I can write a book!'
Subs like /r/fantasy just up vote utter pulp trash when it comes to the genre (given its a genre that involves a lot of pulp but still)
Even /r/books which you'd think might have an eye for literature does not, it just parrots back high school 'best books' lists and then a weird obsession with Lolita.
Few popular authors have both an eye for prose and good story telling ability.
But no, of course 'to kill a mockingbird' is the best piece of 20th century literature. Ugh. Fuck.
If you want to see an amazing author, I recommend Maya Angelou or Jamaica Kincaid.
buttscratchr ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:00:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Have you read lolita? It's pretty undeniably amazing writing. Yes, the plot is controversial, of course, and it is a bit of a circlejerk around it, but the language he employs is beautiful.
I do however agree that a lot of it is parroting back "best of" books that people think they should be enjoying.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:07:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh yes I have I think it's an incredible book. Undeniably amazing writing. But the fixation on it in certain circles raises some interesting questions. Lol.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:06:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No one is denying Lolita is good, I think OP's point is more along the lines of "Fucking hell this book again? Do you guys actually read anything outside of 'Top 100 Books' lists and high school reading?"
wjbc ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:07:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Even writing and selling popular books isn't easy.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:43:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No it's not easy at all, I'm just pointing out that a popular book != good literature.
oqfbfusq ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:38:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah but Sarah Palin just sat down and typed and the book sold thousands. How'd she do that?
wjbc ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:44:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm hoping you aren't that naive.
oqfbfusq ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:48:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You said someone can't just sit down and type and end up with a book that sells tens of thousands of copies, and they have to have genuine writing talent to do this. Well Sarah Palin isn't someone with genuine writing talent is she? And yet she just literally sat down and typed and ended up selling her book in tens of thousands. How did she do it? I thought you couldn't just do this but she did so explain.
wjbc ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:50:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's called ghost writers + celebrity author. Sarah Palin isn't "everyone" and chances are very good she didn't even write her book.
FlameFrenzy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:00:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's a goal of mine that I'll think of some awesome story, write it, and get it published. Either a novel or a comic (if I can snag an artist for "cheap"). Definitely a long shot dream. Doesn't matter if never sold worth a crap if I got published.
Never intend to even pretend to be a professional. Day job comes first, other shit after that, then maybe this.
Abstruse ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:35:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Even saying it's "talent" is wrong in my opinion. It devalues the incredible amount of work it takes to hone what raw talent there is. It really is a craft where training and education is just as important as raw talent. Ask any published author to tell you about their first novel. If they don't wince immediately, ask them again to talk about their first novel, not just the first one that was published.
Talent is important. But actually learning how to write is far, far more important.
amexicanbear ยท 4615 points ยท Posted at 12:32:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography, and in the same vein, photo editing. No, the sepia filter does not turn your photo of olive garden breadsticks into art gallery material.
TheLeagueOfShadows ยท 1101 points ยท Posted at 16:48:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Leo: So do you like photos man?
Hyde: Yeah, sure man.
Leo: Okay you got the job man.
Hyde: Just like that? You don't have to interview anyone else?
Leo: Nobody else showed up man.
Hyde: So what do I do here anyway?
Leo: Well I don't expect much man. Pretty much if the hut hasn't burned down its been a good day. And even if it did, it wouldn't matter because I have 3 or 4 more of these little huts somewhere... Hey if you see one of these huts will you give me a call man?
Hyde: Or better yet I could take a picture of it.
Leo: Woah! A picture of a photo hut! Hey that's like art or something huh?
Hyde: Yeah man I guess.
Leo: Hey, I hope you don't mind if I pay you in cash. Don't like big brother getting into my things, you dig?
Hyde: Keeping the government out of it. I'm so with you man.
Leo: No my big brother man. He's always hitting me up for money.
Hyde: Cause you're the responsible one?
Leo: Yeah. It's my curse. Hey.. I have to uh, be at a place...
Hyde: Yeah I hear that. So do you want me to lock up when I leave?
Leo: Lock up! Hey that's a good idea man. You're one of those idea men, aren't you man?
Hyde: Yeah maybe one day you'll be working for me.
Leo: Really?? Oh that'd be cool man. But hey can I have Saturday nights off?
Hyde: Yeah sure.
Leo: Cool man.
christinhainan ยท 274 points ยท Posted at 17:47:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fuck now I have to watch 70s show again
D8-42 ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 18:33:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You say that like it's a chore, best show ever man!
M12Domino ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 18:42:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm watching through it again right now, I'm almost done season 6. I forgot about a lot of things that happened in this show the first time around
Audityne ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:01:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I finished it not so long ago. It so accurately mirrors my life that when it ended I felt like I lost a bunch of old friends.
Bystronicman08 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:12:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is it on Hulu or Netflix?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:38:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Bystronicman08 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:53:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you.
M12Domino ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:28:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Netflix for me, but I live in Canada.
christinhainan ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:52:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I watched it back in college when I had the time to watch so much TV. Not that much time anymore - sigh. I still remember my favorite scenes from Friends and That 70s show and watch random episodes form time to time.
PsychoAgent ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:34:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just reminds me of how terrible the last seasons were. I have yet to finish watching the last two or three seasons.
christinhainan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:49:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah the last one was particularly bad after Kelso and Eric left and they brought in some extra characters.
It's a classic example of a good show which just ran too long...
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:28:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You should be thanking the man. Start it over from season 1 it was in its prime in the early years
legending ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:11:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Tonight
H37man ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 22:03:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
http://youtu.be/zh8h4j7-HTo
robinthebum ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:23:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Man, that was awesome - I've never watched it before. It'd be SO much better without that laugh track after every single joke though!
CreativelyBland ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:14:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ugh. What a good episode.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:33:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This was one of the best TV scenes ever.
flameguy21 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:17:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't notice this was from that 70's show until about 3/4 of the way through. เฒ _เฒ
ktd1111 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 00:44:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When I read the name Leo, I automatically went to Leonardo Dicaprio in The Revenant. So this whole scene played out in my mind in that setting, where the hut was a thatched hut and they were in furs and Hyde was Tom Hardy's character (up to no good obvs, planning some shady sommat for when Leo leaves).
meatfrappe ยท 4103 points ยท Posted at 15:05:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
โข Woman has child, leaves her job to be stay-at-home-mom.
โข Simultaneously, husband purchases a decent SLR so she can take pictures of the kid.
โข Woman posts pictures of her newborn to Facebook, gets a bunch of polite "likes" from family and friends.
โข One week to one month later, woman figures out how to put a watermark on her pictures and "[Stupidname] Photography" is born. She is now a "professional" photographer, and friends and family are expected to hire her for all of their photography needs.
I see this happen on probably a monthly basis on my Facebook feed.
Terminal_Lance ยท 2715 points ยท Posted at 16:28:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
*Gets expensive, high tech camera.
*Only uses the AUTO setting.
Gailestorm ยท 379 points ยท Posted at 17:40:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was at a concert doing some photography for one of the bands there. Next to me was a girl with a nikon dslr with what looked like a very very pricey lens, a crazy flash etc.. I asked her about it and she didn't know anything about her several thousand dollar set up. I got a glimpse at her photos and they were terrible and she was probably blinding the performers with that awful flash.
Why would you spend like $3000 on something you know nothing about?
pbsx ยท 372 points ยท Posted at 19:47:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
could be a vice photographer
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 01:31:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
suitology ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 08:58:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe you are just beyond shit?
[deleted] ยท 40 points ยท Posted at 20:02:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
S A V A G E
RapNVideoGames ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 21:35:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
SHOTS FIRED๐ซ๐ซ๐ซ
Mufestus ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 03:55:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Damn son. You are one cold mofo. But yeah, truth.
PresdentSarahPalin ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 22:39:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
yeah, their photos are always umm awful. And they kinda seem to think, or thought, that they are/were a photography magazine
racismisgay ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:57:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Example?
PresdentSarahPalin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:45:32 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
of their lame ass photos, man with a camera, or that they kinda thought they were a photography magazine?
I have no demonstration of the latter, it just seemed to me to be a photography magazine, but with "grit", "true grit", you know?
The former: just any of their magazines. You go through the magazine looking for the great photos ... and there aren't any. And, at the same time, the feeling that it's a collection of some guy's snaps from a few nights out, a few visits to badly run factories, the car park of a music festival and some gig in Bristol, becomes suffocating.
motherpluckin-feisty ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:02:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ouch
xFiction ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 20:59:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wishful purchases. "I want to be a really good photographer and all the pros use the 810!
RickAndMorty_forever ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:19:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drooling over an 810....
atwintoitself ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 21:13:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can confirm. I too am a concert photographer and the kits the others put together to get the "perfect" shot are ridiculously expensive and totally not worth all that trouble for the situation. I get made fun of for coming into the pit with no other gear other than my camera and a 50mm lens. After each set of whitch we can only shoot the first 3 songs we go to the media area and "boast" about the photos and the people with the most expensive equipment are usually the ones who know nothing about their expensive set up. My 50mm and I make love to those concerts like no one else.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 21:41:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
atwintoitself ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 21:51:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know that. You know that. The people lugging around 4 $2,000+ lenses on 2 $2,000+ bodies and other useless shit don't know that. I find it amusing what reactions I get to my set up
Syrrlix ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:55:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd love to have one, cabt afford one.
Still love my 55-108 lense tho.
atwintoitself ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:20:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I shoot nikon and the 50mm f/1.4G is about $450 new, and roughly $350 used for a full frame. They aren't terribly expensive. Im not a professional, (hope to get there one day) but I save as much as I can because I love photography. Even if it means not buying clothes or luxury items till I completely use what I have till it's no longer usable
5-4-3-2-1-bang ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 01:56:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Isn't your 50mm a bit short for concert photography? My 85/1.8G has been my go-to lens forever, it's fucking amazing. (I'm assuming you're shooting FF here; if you're DX then the 50mm would work out to roughly 75mm, which is within spitting distance of the 85.)
atwintoitself ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:12:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Im shooting with the D800 and Im fairly close to the action to get my shots, and occasionally crop in post as the D800 shoots at 36 megapixels. I just recently bought a 85mm f/1.8 and can't wait to shoot with it. I bought it mostly for portraits tho, Im more than satisfied with a 50mm for concerts.
Raiken200 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:48:51 on January 29, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Depends on the venue I guess, I used to use a Sigma 30mm 1.4 on a Nikon D7000 (45mm equiv.) because I was right up on stage at the venue I shot at. Couldn't get back more than a meter.
JuDGe3690 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:33:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I used to shoot concerts in some church settings where the lighting wasn't really good, but a 50mm f/1.8 did pretty well, although I still had to bump the ISO up and shutter speed as low as I dared. The big issue was the narrow focus plane, so I learned to take a bunch of photos, out of which would come one or two good ones.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:51:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
JuDGe3690 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:14:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, this was for the Spokane First Nazarene Theater Organ Society up in Spokane, Washington, about 2009-2011. I don't think any of that is online anymore. Also, it was halfway decent, but not as good as it could be (I was using equipment borrowed from college at the time).
More recentlyโalthough still two and a half years agoโI rented a camera and took some photos of the all-but abandoned tunnels and trestles of the Camas Prairie Railroad in Lapwai Canyon, Idaho: http://imgur.com/a/ZA6C8
I want to get a camera of my own and a couple basic lenses, but my current budget situation doesn't allow that.
atwintoitself ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:35:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is dope man! I need to do more exploring in my area. I hear you, I've been actively photographing for 10 years and not untill 3 years ago I was shooting with nothing but borrowed equipment, as far as digital goes. It made me learn various systems, and was able to choose a preffered brand. It also made me appreciate more what I have once it was mine. Keep it up. And save up. Digital is an expensive hobby
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:57:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I took pictures of my friend's band's show once. That narrow depth of field killed me. Took well over 100 shots. Got maybe 15 good ones.
loser4lyf ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:52:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
to be fair, 15% usable photos is a great shooting ratio.
the best photographers are really consistent in producing quality work, but they are also throwing away a significant percentage of unusable shots, like normal people.
sharilynj ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:56:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Amen! I don't shoot concerts anymore, mostly do comedy/theatre, but 90% of my shots are with my 50. It's the perfect lens.
atwintoitself ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:21:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Same here my 50mm gets used 90% of the time too. Within the last week I invested in an Nikon 85mm f/1.8 and a Samyang 12mm f/2.8. Can't wait to wreck shit with them
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:55:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I love my 50mm lens.
PM_ME_POTOOS ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 23:23:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was at a music festival, enjoying the music when I saw one of the "hired professionals" to shoot some of the artist. This guy had a massive 500 or 800mm lens and a monopod with a really good dlsr. I walked past and saw that he had the monopod on the body. All the weight of the lens was on the rings Rip several thousand dollar setup ;_;
5-4-3-2-1-bang ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:58:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously? The foot on the lens wasn't a giant fucking clue?
Pardonme23 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:34:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There are cars that go 20K miles without having the oil changed
Koker93 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:44:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drove an f450 for 145000 miles for work. Changed the oil every 10k miles at best. Truck still has 0 engine issues. The guy who inherited it from me has put another 25k on it.
It burned a quart of oil every 3rd fuelup though - that may have been part of what kept the oil "fresh."
RickAndMorty_forever ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:17:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because a better camera obvs means better photos ;s
snappyirides ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:33:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
this made me want to strangle someone
kasdanasal ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:43:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thats insane... I have a cheapo cannon DSLR I use for amateur photography. Cost me $500 and I still only have the one lens. I fucking learned how to shoot manual on that thing, and I just don't understand how someone can drop more then that just to use auto...
vi0lent ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:32:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The problem is people think monetary investment means they'll magically be a pro at it. You actually have to put the work into learning how the thing works in order to improve and a lot of people don't want to do that. Instead of looking up info online so they can use it on manual they buy expensive lenses.
kasdanasal ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:07:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I only got a DSLR because I was tired of the lack of control on my phone camera.... I guess it has a lot to do with motivation then.
vi0lent ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:01:40 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was always intimidated by DSLRs, I probably wouldn't have thought of getting one but I was lucky in that my grandma gave me her old canon. I was really tired of the lack of control with my phone camera too so being able to experiment with aperture, ISO, etc is really interesting.
Actually this is a good reminder to get out for a walk now and figure more stuff out.
Gailestorm ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:32:43 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Damn right. I have a cheaper canon as well($600 ish a few years ago ). Even though I'm not in photography anymore it still serves a great purpose for me now anyway.
popstar249 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:01:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm surprised the venue even allowed a flash.
Gailestorm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:03:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It was a relatively small venue. Thing was blinding though.
popstar249 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:29:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That sucks. Messes up the experience for the audience and the performers not to mention how all of her photos will be garbage. Next time you should politely speak with the house manager about it.
Gailestorm ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:17:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not doing that anymore anyway. I went into other things and didn't really keep my connections with the bands I knew. I don't regret it, as I like what I'm doing now better. That said I don't think I'll enjoy a concert as much not looking through a camera
marklyon ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:33:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sometimes people have more money than they have experience.
I've used a guy for doing local commercials who got his start - and now, he's pretty up front about it once he gets to know you - because he wanted to work on movies, couldn't get a job, had a car accident in LA and got a pretty decent settlement. Instead of fixing his car (and probably dodging some medical bills) he bought a shit car and a used, fully-equipped grip truck. He drove to a new state and set up shop. Rented a camera and other equipment he didn't have when he needed it and sometimes just served as an equipment house for other people.
He had no fucking clue what he was doing, but was able to muddle through (even then, back in the days where good work got done on expensive film) and landed a series of gigs for educational television, then industrial films, etc. Basically all the work came because he had the right gear and was cheaper than the next guy.
SmellsLikeAsparagus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:09:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's the same kind of person that said to a professional photographer; "I really like your pictures, you must have a nice camera" Just the result of someone that thinks expensive equipment = talent.
Gailestorm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:04:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Reminds me of people in my current field biting $2,500 cintiq monitors. I'm sorry but you still suck at drawing
hellostarsailor ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:35:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sounds like people I know who are "freelance" photographers.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:34:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Damn what concert venue allows a shooter to use a flash in the pit? I love when security does their job
Gailestorm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:29:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't remember what venue it was as this was like 5 years ago. They weren't huge by any means. Might have been the loft
awesome357 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:37:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly because they probably have the money and its what someone told her she should get because they said it's the best. Everyone always wants the best and if they don't know enough about it then they depend on someone else to tell them what is the best. Sometimes that is the sales person trying to make a commission or get brownie points with the boss.
PartyPorpoise ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:27:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Rich people, I guess. Or maybe people who think that the expensive equipment will automatically make the photos better without any work.
My dad takes advantage. He's recently gotten into photography, and there are a bunch of people who take it up as a hobby, buy a ton of expensive equipment, and only use it a few times before selling it on eBay. Get fancy stuff at a lower price.
BigFish8 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:59:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Question about using flash at a show. I was at a show in a small venue and the guy taking pictures was using his external flash. I thought the lighting was pretty awesome with lots of different colours which would have come out fine without the flash. Is it normal to use the flash for concerts? I took some shots with my phone, and even with it I was able to get some okay pictures. I would imagine with the better sensors on DLSRs it would be pretty good and you wouldn't blind the performers.
Gailestorm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:14:33 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For me personally, I almost never used a flash. I'm by no means an expert in this as I kind of got thrown into band photography as a just a freak thing. Plus most shows I shot at were local metal shows so a lot of the other photographers were not professionals either. Biggest place I went to was the rave,but I was only 1 of 2 people shooting.
A lot of this will depend on the venue though. Some said you can't use it others never said anything. If you're at a good venue you won't need it anyway as the lighting will be good. Only place I ever used one I got permission from the band ahead of time.the light was complete crap there and I wouldn't have been able to get the photos they were paying me for.
atomicllama1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:01:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe she didn't buy it.
silentkill144 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:03:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Wait, so the more money I spend on a camera doesn't make me a better photographer?!?
Gailestorm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:27:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No no it totally does. Trust me I'm a "professional "
Ofactorial ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:39:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My mom got a DSLR for her continuing education intro photography class, mainly because the Best Buy salesman convinced her to do it. That's how that shit happens.
Gailestorm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:17:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They're great cameras, just most people don't fully utilize them
solarspeed ยท 993 points ยท Posted at 16:43:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I honestly feel bad for the camera :(
timbomcchoi ยท 569 points ยท Posted at 17:40:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Camera underemployment is a serious issue :/
Lord-Benjimus ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 20:39:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Camera overqualification is a large issue affecting today's society, due to increased enrollment at camera self improvement facilities, educated cameras are now stuck with jobs that will never pay their manufacturing costs.
(This was the closest satire I could get to over qualified grads and immigrants)
twist3biscuit ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:43:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My ex was always stuck on auto...i refused and used manual only. Her pictures usually turned out better...mine were all over the place as i was messing with iso, aperture, and shutter speed. Occasionally id have an awesome one among the plethora of bad, and wouldnt have it any other way. Then i started with film...shoulda practiced more with the digi but now i cant go back lol
Silent-G ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:05:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Does your film camera have a light meter on the viewfinder? As long as that thing is relatively close to the middle, all you have to be aware of is your focus and a general idea of what your depth of field is depending on your f-stop. Usually, if you're not sure, it's a good idea to take 3 or 4 photos of the same thing while adjusting 1 stop up and down and changing the shutter speed so that the light meter stays in the middle. That way you get multiple negatives of the same thing, and when you go to print, you can see which one has the best depth of field. Personally, I like photos with a really low depth of field where the subject is really crisp and stands out, and you only have a vague idea of what's in the background or foreground.
twist3biscuit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:32:59 on February 10, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes it has a light meter. I always shoot with the highest aperture and 800 iso film. I adjust the light levels via shutter speed. I usually do night shots so its beneficial to have the most light coming in so the shutter doesnt have to be open for long. But i love sticking it on a tripod with like a 20 second shutter and just letting that film saturate in the night light...then the pics are bright as day with a cool color scheme XD
kirrkirr ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:20:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's what p and s modes are for.
n1c0_ds ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:01:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And A. Never forget A.
naynaythewonderhorse ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:11:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is why I suck at photography if it's not in a lab (and even then I suck...) I'm stuck on manual mode, and I can't ever bring myself to change the setting. Even when it would benefit me to not have to speed through the settings to get a split-second chance pic.
n1c0_ds ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:19:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Shoot in aperture priority, set the ISO to auto with a maximum of 1600, and turn off the flash.
With a large enough sensor (Sony 1", 4/3, APS-C etc), that will give you 1/30 exposure or less in almost every situation.
SubtleOrange ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:08:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hey I got a Nikon D3200 about a year ago and I've done some photography and use it more for filmmaking, but your comment made me wonder what kinds of things I could be doing with it. Any tips?
GrayOctopus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:38:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
#CAMERALIVESMATTER
iloveporker ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:00:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Z.
open_door_policy ยท 136 points ยท Posted at 18:39:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When I see someone taking landscapes with a mid tier camera, pushing the pop up flash down in between every shot I feel bad.
That poor camera needs a better shooter.
Mc_Cake ยท 45 points ยท Posted at 01:43:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You guys are all assholes. If they can buy and use that camera the way they fucking want, just let them. Who the fuck do you think you are, "insert famous photographer name here"?
JamieSand ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 02:05:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Finally someone with a bit of sense. Who the fuck do all of these guys above think they are
Turbo__Sloth ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 02:18:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No! There is only one way to use things, and if it's not my way, then they are worthless and just taking up space!
NocturnalToxin ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:21:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sure, but if you wanna take shitty pictures, there are far cheaper cameras.
Mc_Cake ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:41:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well, im sorry i want this one here.
Raiken200 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:36:13 on January 29, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's the same as seeing a nice car go by with the gears grinding, being stalled every 2 minutes. Just seems like a waste, is all.
Mc_Cake ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:42:08 on January 29, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thats understandable. But that person is learning. Maybe if you just let them be ot tell them "ey, may be you just gotta relax, and lift a foot while the other goes down calmly, everything is okay".
quantum-quetzal ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 20:10:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The pop up on my 50d hasn't been deployed since I bought it used, 4 years ago. I kind of doubt that it was used much before, either, as I bought it from a pro who had just moved up.
n1c0_ds ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:20:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Same thing with my RX 100, and it has a much smaller sensor.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:41:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
THAT being said forgetting auto flash was on when you've already adjusted the aperture is a real pain in the ass when using point and shoots.
arch_nyc ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:56:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You just described me :-/
FlaminCamin ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:24:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can we trade with jfk?
CJ090 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:52:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Get George Zimmerman
All_About_Apes ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:22:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is always the tell for me when watching others use their DSLR. As soon as the flash pops up in the middle of a sunny day and they continue to keep pressing it down.
I hate flash in general for my photos. Well, onboard flash, I should say.
suitology ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:54:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Mine does this even on the right settings the flash never goes off unless I want it to it just has a constant half chub.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:11:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Don't worry the camera will get broken by the kid a few months later and then it's on to the next half-assed hobby (if they even have time for hobbies anymore after the kid)
xFiction ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:56:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's like buying a McLaren F1 and just driving around a city with it. Every piece was literally designed for the track :( poor thing
Kameron808 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:03:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Used to be that you could trust a person who wielded an SLR. Now, not so much.
whysotortoise ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:30:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You still have my axe.
enjoyyourshrimp ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:09:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Feel bad for the Hasselblads they left on the moon.
Srirachafarian ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:16:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As someone who knows how to use a camera and can't afford the one I want, that makes me feel bad for me.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:36:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Feel bad for mine. I got it ages ago and used it to document aircraft damage around the world. I sucked at photography so it was way to expensive for the job. Then I learned what all the buttons did and started tinkering with taking random shots of stars and shit. That got interesting. I really do a shit job of it though and my camera can still well out perform my skills. I hate people finding out have it because I'm apparently supposed to instantly want to photograph everything for them. I don't take it on vacation anymore either since apparently that means I get to experience vacations through my lens and not with my eyes and relaxing. Vacation is much nicer now that I get to have memories in my head instead of stored on my hard drive.
MR_PENNY_PIINCHER ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:33:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Manual lenses are amazing for breaking people of AUTO abuse.
Ace1999 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:07:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because it's not used like a whore?
Panigg ยท 500 points ยท Posted at 16:58:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well P is just a slightly different auto mode and will suffice for like 60 to 70% of all photos for most people. The other modes are really only for people that know what they are doing.
I used to work for nikon and the absolute worst thing that happened to me was my first call ever. It took 2 hours.
Customer calls in complaining about my coworkers, they gave him bad advice. This camera (Nikon 1, V2 I believe, not sure anymore) didnt take underwater pictures as he wanted it to.
He spent about 3000 euro on the gear and another 4000 on a trip to mexico to take "professional" pictures that he sold to a furniture store but he said sometimes the flash didnt go off or there is a glare in the pictures.
Turns out he never even opened the manual. Took me 2 hours to explain to him exactly what he needed to do to setup the camera for underwater photography.
Step 1 consisted of him setting the camera from auto to whatever mode (I believe P but again not sure) and to remove the glare he had to put a sticker on the front of his lense....
Yes, 7000 euro "wasted" and all it took was 5 minutes of reading the manual.
NotSoLittleJohn ยท 244 points ยท Posted at 18:24:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's called a "stupid tax" and he very much so deserved it.
Otistetrax ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 19:45:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
OP however, did not.
n1c0_ds ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 18:07:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Aperture priority with the flash off and the ISO limited to 1600 is where it's at. That APS-C sensor should give you lots of leeway.
RedSpikeyThing ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:32:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Amen. I hate the "manual only" crowd more than the ignorant "auto only" crowd.
5-4-3-2-1-bang ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:01:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Manual definitely has its place, but if you pick up my camera at any random time you'll likely find me on aperture priority.
n1c0_ds ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:53:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If I were to shoot on manual, I'd miss most of the nicer pictures I've taken. However, I use manual for long exposure night shots, so I can stick to a low ISO.
ohgeronimo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:50:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There's a lot to be said about pre-metering your environment though. If you need the camera to automatically adjust for you it can still lead to missing the shot. Knowing what sort of lighting you have, the relative speed of your subjects, if you need to focus on depth or just the subjects, all of that can give you some pretty basic settings and you'll capture almost everything you were there to capture.
That's one of the biggest things I've seen with people that try to use manual. They don't take the time to understand what they're shooting, so they have to adjust on the fly. That's unrealistic, and part of the reason you don't want to trust your camera doing that is it can still mess up from slight problems like where your focus is or what focus pattern you use. Like if you use a centered focus pattern and you accidentally focus on something really bright in a darker setting. The auto adjustments are going to mess up.
So even if you're using auto, pre-metering your scene can be really helpful. Not enough people seem to do it when they try to use manual.
zebediah49 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:21:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd probably say more than that. At least 90%. I have a little point-and-shoot that doesn't get more manual than program-auto.
Once in a while I really really wish I could force the focus or exposure time (often for the same reason). Other than that, it does what I want: take pictures and be nearly indestructible.
seeking_hope ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:47:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was waiting for you to say the camera wasn't waterproof.
Panigg ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:03:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well it isnt, but the 2000 euro gear he bought is an underwater case.
seeking_hope ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:07:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I got that. Having a 2 hr conversation of "you fucked up getting your camera wet" was more amusing in my head. I can't make fun of keeping things on auto mode because I have a Sony a57 that I am still learning to use off of auto mode.
the-beast561 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:10:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I never read manuals before I use things, but I always read them before asking for help.
RickAndMorty_forever ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:19:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"A" master race!
runamuckalot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:30:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What is this sticker he's putting on the lens?
Panigg ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:41:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Its just a matte sticker that covers the writing on the lens so when the flash goes off the writing doesnt reflect off of the glass from the casing.
runamuckalot ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:40:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ah that makes sense. I was thinking it was going on the lens glass and it seemed like strange thing to do.
Grolar_BEARS ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:17:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
P for professional man!
suitology ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:57:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"sticker on lense" is this British for something? what kind of sticky substance should ever be on my lens?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:58:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Panigg ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:04:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Its programmed auto that does things a bit different than full auto and lets you adjust some thngs a little better. Preset user is usually called U1 and U2.
5-4-3-2-1-bang ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:02:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No it isn't, it's basically "full auto - automatic flash".
[deleted] ยท 172 points ยท Posted at 16:41:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 142 points ยท Posted at 16:49:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 335 points ยท Posted at 17:01:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 18:22:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
vecdran ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 19:09:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lens rentals my friend, lens rentals. You too can rent that $10k telephoto bazooka for the day your hot neighbor undresses at the window again!
sonusfaber ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:10:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am not affiliated, just saying I have used lensrentals.com for two and have been very satisfied. I will be using them for future rentals.
souporwitty ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:00:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hey neighbor can we schedule like a 2-4 pm today? I want to get the bazooka back before closing so I don't have to pay for the second day...thanks! -creepy neighbor.
bjsy92 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:01:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah that comment made no sense
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:25:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Apparently if he had money for lenses right now he would be perma-broke
Anyosae ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:36:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
See, you don't have to have no money, you would just have money but not quite enough to purchase a decent pair.
cakewalking ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:23:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"
deityblade ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:15:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks bro
JPFxBaMBadEE ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:13:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't even have a nice camera but I still manage to edit the exposure with my phones camera
plazzman ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 17:52:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I always akin it to people who buy automatic sports cars. It's just for show at that point.
[deleted] ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 18:51:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
RickAndMorty_forever ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:22:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And that's perfectly fine, but if you're spending this kind of money you should honestly have a sense for the romance of it. I feel the road and it's vibrations when my hand is on the shifter. I'm in control and only I can make the decisions. Are auto Jeeps less of a pain in the ass in traffic? Yep. Can it shift better than I can? Yep. But there's no soul in that man, there's just no soul.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:10:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
RickAndMorty_forever ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:22:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'll garage a Tesla next to the Jeep!!
n1c0_ds ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:24:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
At least it will still go much faster than your regular car. An underused DSLR will only shine in low light with the flash off.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:41:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Don't be a douche
plazzman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:22:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sorry
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:25:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sorry :(
Myfeetarecold1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:13:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But if you could afford it, wouldn't you never be broke?
zomfgowo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:54:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well it would be depend if I had a disposable income to afford spending money on it or if I had to save up the necessary sum over a certain time period, the later being a less than reasonable choice in my opinion.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:26:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't even own a good camera but my G4's camera is rarely ever on auto mode.
the_last_ninjaburger ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:07:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wat?! She should be using her really expensive SLR to take selfies using her smartphone as a remote viewfinder and wireless shutter!
sugarpockets ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:58:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wow didn't know you could do this! Thought you would just buy a camera with a viewfinder.
Evil_ash ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:14:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I did that once. I looked so horrifying in all that high quality HD shit, that I never did it again...
quantum-quetzal ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:13:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's kind of unfortunate, because a good phone might even be better, unless the SLR has a fold-out screen.
I once wanted to get a photo of myself riding my bike, but I couldn't find anyone good enough to get the shot that I wanted, and the built-in timer was too short. But, I have Magic Lantern installed on my 50d, so I turned on focus trapping, so it automatically took a shot whenever I came into focus.
n1c0_ds ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:23:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As long as you keep the flash off, you'll get amazing low light quality on most DSLRs due to their bigger sensor, and perhaps a shallower depth of field on occasion.
Don't get me wrong, it's a waste of money, but you do get something better.
Johndough99999 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:04:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
r/gonewild would be lost without them.
white-dog-turds ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:57:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If only. Seems like 90% of the photos on there are taken with a potato phone camera, in the dark, while in motion.
JPFxBaMBadEE ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:12:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
She's.. She's 15...
No but really I have absolutely no doubt she'll be posting to r/gonewild as soon as she legally can
n1c0_ds ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:25:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
RemindMe! 3 years
ehkodiak ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:04:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hnnnng
Carnivorous_Jesus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:38:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Those are called self-portraits
JPFxBaMBadEE ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:46:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sorry. The Internet is starting to change my vocabulary.
poopsy__daisy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:06:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
... Is she located near Chicago by any chance?
JPFxBaMBadEE ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:42:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Far from
asspirin ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 16:55:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The best is when someone is using a telephoto and the flash pops up
cheshirecat79 ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 18:53:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This kills me watching the superbowl. Allll the flashes in the crowd, literally thousands of them, all trying to light up a source sometimes hundreds of feet away.
pseudomac ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:23:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It looks neat tho
baslisks ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:59:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
idea, white laser. That would work, right?
theavatare ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:55:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My rules is Auto for bday parties, A setting for everything and S for whaterfalls and fire dancers.
I consider myself semi pro. Since I worked doing budoir pics in a studio to pay student bills and now people will ask me to shoot their parties and tip me.
If i could find people to model for me without me having to pay just for enjoyment i would stop shooting parties and stuff for free.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:54:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
theavatare ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:38:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have thought about but was never sure about using models without paying.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:02:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
theavatare ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:07:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cool will give it a shot. Thanks for the info.
I used to make decent money doing budoir photography. Thought it was super fun and meaningful work in general.
Just have ended at bday party photographer rank for a few years.
I do like shooting halloween parties though.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:04:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You just need to bribe a hot model on modelmayhem into being your girlfriend, then you can take all sorts of photos
theavatare ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:05:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm married. Sadly the wife is anti taking orders from me and will make a face on 98% of the pictures I take.
zerbey ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:49:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know someone who acquired a very expensive SLR, some well meaning relative purchased it for her. She wanted to become a photographer you see. She used it for a month, in the process she ruined some poor sap's prom photo shoot by taking a bunch of blurry pictures. She eventually declared it to be broken and planned to send it out for a warranty fix.
I spent a few minutes reading the manual and took some great pictures. Response: "Well sometimes it works". I told her to RTFM. She never sent it back, and this expensive camera sits gathering dust on a shelf with its warranty long since expired. She uses her cell phone for pictures now and gave up on her photography dreams.
fgm148 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:28:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Why not offer to buy it off her? If she's that clueless you could get a fantastic bargain!
zerbey ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:38:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have! Even offered her a fair price! She didn't want to sell it.
fgm148 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:40:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sounds like a burglary is needed.
LessLikeYou ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 17:30:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Gets expensive, high tech camera
Uses jpeg instead of RAW output
n1c0_ds ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 21:27:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's actually not such a big deal. There are some serious benefits to shooting in RAW, but unless you actually do post-treatment on your photos, shooting in RAW is largely a waste of space.
Even editing JPGs directly is not that terrible for very basic touchups.
Henrybra000 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:09:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
my mom bought a $2,000 camera four years ago, the only time it hasn't been shot in auto is when I've used it. Just Google how to use a damn camera it doesn't take that long to learn!
Ccrasus ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:49:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Auto mode is mostly sufficient for normal purpose photography.
By the time you adjust aperture, film speed and exposure time the family member you want to photograph (especially kids) will be fed up. And auto mode does a great job on most cameras.
n1c0_ds ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:14:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Go in aperture priority mode. You set your aperture and the camera does the rest. It essentially becomes a choice between shutter speed and depth of field, with ISO giving you some leeway.
If your camera has a good sensor, you can leave the flash off and get some great low light photos at ISO 1600 or under.
yaavsp ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:19:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
*Doesn't even know that there's more than the 50mm lens that came with the camera.
*Shutter speed, aperture, lighting... Ah who cares, it's all about that watermark.
notmyfakeid_hd ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:23:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Some people I know who are using expensive DSLRs don't even know how ISO works. If they get a noisy picture they consider it the fault of lighting. They just purchased it so that they can photograph themselves with awesome focusing.
brasiwsu ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:22:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I prefer green box mode
charleston_guy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:11:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It took me forever to convince my wife to get a digital camera. She's a 35mm freak. Thought that digital photography took away a lot of control from the photographer, like, it's not "pure" anymore. Takes less talent. She goes on and on about it. She uses a camera like I use my car; all assists off.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:51:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Also said camera is usually the low end of the consumer DSLR offerings for the company. Not that they can't take absolutely stunning photos but buying an interchangeable lens camera does not a photographer make.
popstar249 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:00:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They shouldn't even include the full auto setting on any single digit camera bodies. It's a wasted space on the dial. I'd much rather an extra custom setting.
raven575 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:20:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Gets expensive camera.
Only uses on camera flash.
Yanmega ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:02:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
:( I'm guilty at times for this
Usually when I'm like, visiting somewhere, I'll use it just because they're documentation, not artistic.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:11:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's my parents. It's retarded.
notLOL ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:49:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
infinex ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:01:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am by no means a photographer. My dad, who I'd consider an amateur photographer has taught me how to play with aperture and shutter speed settings (and a few other things), and how to follow the rule of thirds, but I have WAY too many friends who have spent hundreds to even as much as $1000 on a camera with a single lens only to use the auto setting. It is absolutely absurd.
elcheeserpuff ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:04:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, if you're shooting in raw and have half a brain when it comes to post processing then shooting in auto is perfectly fine. I go manual for all my star photography but my "auto-no flash" setting is my best friend when on the go.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:29:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I bought the most basic DSLR and tried my hand at photography. Bought a couple of lenses, created a 500px page, posted a few pics and got a couple of polite favorites, etc.
Eventually, I figured that I'm just not driven enough to do this and gave away my gear to a friend who was doing some great stuff with his phone and a point and shoot camera but couldn't afford a DSLR. He's doing some fantastic stuff with that camera now
vi0lent ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:19:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is exactly why I'm slowly learning how to use my DSLR properly. I don't want to look like a dickhead.
bigone97 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:09:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Man, people who do this needs to get slapped, why can't they just learn how to use the damn thing? Photography's pretty darn interesting if learnt properly...
Terminal_Lance ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:39:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I borrowed my brother's Canon when I took a trip overseas. I mostly just used auto, because I didn't have much of an interest in professional photography or photography as a hobby. I just used it because it had better zoom capabilities, better picture resolution and was able to take multiple shots faster when compared to my smartphone and Fujifilm point n'shoot.
bigone97 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:59:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, fair enough, you were borrowing the camera for a short period of time and obviously with no interest hobby, there isn't a need to learn about photography, especially in a short time period. You just learnt the basics (I assume) of how to use the camera to bring out its potential for a good picture and that's perfectly fine.
I don't want to sound like an asshole, but it's just annoying when the people OP is describing buy such expensive gear and don't bother to learn how to at least use it properly and use it to it's full potential, IMO, they've just wasted ยฃยฃยฃยฃ's so that they can boast to their friends that they're 'photographers'.
frank26080115 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:28:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
the auto setting is still technically better on an expensive camera than on a cheap one. I pretty much shop for sensor size and lens and autofocus speed but still just use auto.
saintsfan1622000 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:34:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Amen. I know other people who take photos as part of their job who use the auto setting. F-stop, shutter speed and ISO are not that difficult to set correctly.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:38:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Case in point
gravityapple ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:54:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My wife did this. Felt like flushing 3 grand, but now I use it for some action photography.
edwartica ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:14:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've got an old DSLR, which serves me fine but of course I long for more. I never use auto, so whenever I see someone using auto on a better camera than mine, I feel like insisting that they swap cameras with me. If you're going to use auto, here...take my Rebel and I'll just take that 5D off your hands.
Ace1999 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:07:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well I know how to use the EV and ISO settings. Am I better than them?
iloveporker ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:59:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
.
valax ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:35:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And doesn't shoot in RAW.
crestonfunk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:57:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I spent years as a camera assistant to a few high-end fashion photographers in the 90s, then I had my own practice mostly shooting album packaging for Atlantic, Virgin and a couple of other major record companies.
I have extensive experience with all types of lighting. I have extensive experience printing B&W for many clients.
I use an EOS 5D that is set to auto 95% of the time.
Most of my best pics from the last 10 years have been taken on a ten year old Canon SD 880 pocket camera.
Shooting on auto or program is no measure of skill or quality of the work.
keepmoving2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:19:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think it's a shame that so many people are only using their cell phone as their only camera. I'd rather have people taking good-quality photos with a camera they don't know how to use. Even the newest iPhone or Samsung or Nexus don't have cameras as good as a decent point-and-shoot.
Terminal_Lance ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:50:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I do sometimes use a proper camera, but I'm one of those people that mainly uses camera phones. I'm not looking to make a business out of it or have a personal portfolio of edited images, doing long exposures, experimenting with lights/shadows or using different settings/lenses to for one subject.
I just want a picture of whatever event I want to remember.
godless-life ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:24:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
With the lens that came bundled.
Hearthing ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:27:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Use your meme arrows.
[deleted] ยท 84 points ยท Posted at 16:02:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You just described my neighbor perfectly
kyles05 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:15:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And mine!
[deleted] ยท 192 points ยท Posted at 16:13:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you get paid to take pictures for a living, doesn't that make you a professional photographer?
Butter_my_waffles ยท 285 points ยท Posted at 16:19:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There's a big difference between being willing and available to be paid to take pictures and actually getting paid to take pictures.
homoredditus ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:07:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It depends on the amount you are paid vs time.
Butter_my_waffles ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 22:15:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm referring to people who take a few pictures and think they're a professional photographer because they told their family and friends that they'd take pictures for them if they paid, but nobody does.
Just because you have a camera and would take pictures if people gave you money doesn't make you a professional photographer. If that were the case, then technically just about everybody is a professional photographer, because just about everybody would take pictures for somebody with even just their phone if they were getting paid.
homoredditus ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 22:22:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Agreed, but I'd go further to say even if you did get paid by family and friends, but not enough to live off, you still aren't a professional photographer.
Butter_my_waffles ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:25:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That is also very true.
meatfrappe ยท 125 points ยท Posted at 16:19:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
These Facebook photographers (Facebotographers?) aren't making anything even remotely approaching a living.
wrigh003 ยท 36 points ยท Posted at 18:50:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My wife calls them fauxtographers. She's more or less shuttered her own photography business (which, yes, started after she became a mom, but did well enough for a living for a few years) now that there's a billion SLRmoms on facebook willing to shoot a session for $50 and hand over print rights, etc. It's just not worth it any more. It's a compound problem of people not appreciating quality, people expecting greatness for the absolute least financial outlay, and people going into business that have NO ability, skill, or talent, because it seems easy.
Don't get me started on groupon or livingsocial photo deals.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:19:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being part of the military community, this shit is RAMPANT. It's like some of the women sit at home and think "I don't want to get a real job, I'll run down to SAMs Club/Walmart/Best Buy, grab an expensive camera, and be a photographer!"... I know so many women who actually went to school or pay to take elective courses on actual photography and yet it's always the dirt cheap, inexperienced people who get the jobs (or offer jobs. Fun fact: I've recently seen the WORST homecoming pictures ever through mutual acquaintances.)
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:23:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
wrigh003 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:24:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Meh. Once you've set up the session, composed the picture, taken the picture, selected the best 30-50 shots from 200 or so, edited those, spent significant time retouching people's skin, etc., for a session's worth of photos- that's your intellectual property. Straight out of the camera? Arguable. The rest? Not so much.
Almost everyone these days buys a package of digital files, anyway- the business is moving to enlargements, custom press work, and then the ability to share whatever files you want on facebook etc.
And, like I said, that entire business model is in the process of folding up- even people that do hyper-custom $$$$ sessions are hurting these days. Midmarket people like my dear wife that specialize(d?) in children and families are getting edged out fast- everybody wants something for nothing.
It was good for us for 7-8 years, but she's mostly a really skilled hobbyist with great gear nowadays.
orangepaperlantern ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:32:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
heh.
4nimal ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:16:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Almost every photography and photojournalism graduate I know has another job. Even the ones I would consider advanced in their careers all teach college classes, bartend, or whatever on the side. Kinda why I switched majors.
revoltrise ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:22:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd be willing to bet 90% of FirstNameLastName Photography businesses never recover the cost of the camera.
CATS_BOOBS_GAMING ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:06:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
its great I laugh at them for being fucking idiots with their life. LIke bro look at these pics I took that anyone can take. My watermark makes me great at this
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:28:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A wedding or whatever will make you a good chunk of side money or whatever.
brekkabek ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:27:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So many engagement photographs ruined.
rustier_trombone ยท 41 points ยท Posted at 16:24:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Doesn't mean you're any good.
[deleted] ยท 46 points ยท Posted at 16:33:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Lefty_Mcgee ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 17:04:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They aren't good enough to get paid. They are good enough to buy a camera and make a Facebook page called ______'s Photography.
Curtalius ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 17:13:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I mean you might as well call yourself a professional landscaper cause you got paid to rake the yard for your parents. Yeah you got paid for the job, but you didn't get hired because of your record for excellent work and you wouldn't have gotten hired if you weren't related to them.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:41:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Curtalius ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:59:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you think that the age has anything to do with it you're wrong. The point i'm trying to make is that people that fit this stereotype are not getting paid to take photographs, they're getting paid to not have said individual cause a fuss asking why they're weren't asked to be the photographer.
Her getting paid had nothing to do with her ability to take photographers or even taking any photographs.. I hate arguing dictionary definitions cause it's meaningless, but if you really want to have that as your perch then I would argue that she wasn't getting paid to take photographs anymore than a protection racket gets paid to protect a business.
Woolford ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:12:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know someone who gets paid to photograph friends weddings, he does it because he charges literally nothing because they are his friends, and because he is pretty shitty. If you ask him he will tell you he is not a professional. Your stuck on the dictionary definition, not the real life use of the word professional.
spritanium ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:49:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Would you say the same thing about a lemonade stand run by some kids on your street?
You're giving the kids money to humor them, not because you expect it to be good lemonade.
tthyme31 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:57:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a musician I've been getting paid to do what I do since I was 16. If I had just said ok, good enough then I would never get anywhere. I still get paid and I'm still in school (22) for music performance and many of us get paid privately for work. Are we professionals? No.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 19:01:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:08:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Your being extremely pedantic about this, the people here are using the word professional in a colloquial way which has additional meaning then the literal definition of the word 'professional.'
Whatnow666 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:18:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not if the only people paying you are friends and family out of guilt....
Whatnow666 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:20:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Guess everyone on Etsy is a "professional" now..
sailthetethys ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:05:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No. A professional photographer is someone who runs a legal licensed business. Most of the Facebook photogs never bother with this step; they don't have a business license or pay taxes. In some places, you have to have a professional photographer's license in addition to a business license.
For instance, here is the form to be a licensed professional photographer in Milwaukee: http://www.milwaukee.gov/ImageLibrary/Groups/ccLicenses/profphoto.pdf
I worked for a professional photographer who would report unlicensed photographers who tried to undercut his business. In addition, I also worked as an unlicensed photographer, but would never call myself a professional.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:21:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
sailthetethys ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:51:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, exactly. It isn't their main paid occupation, so they aren't professionals! Thank you for posting it, I'm glad you get it now!
rustier_trombone ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:39:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But there is a difference between good enough to get paid and good.
eloel- ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:45:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You don't need to be good to get called professional, you only need to get paid to do it.
justahominid ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:38:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Bababooey247 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:53:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Check out eloel's photography on Facebook.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:43:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I got paid $500 to take pictures of lawn mowers. I'll take those odds.
Corvese ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:29:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Look up the definition of professional. You don't have to necessarily be good at something to be considered a professional.
spritanium ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:47:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ever hear of snake oil salesmen?
This is like that, but with ignorance instead of careful manipulation.
n1c0_ds ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:36:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know plenty of those in SEO and web design
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:36:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
cheshirecat79 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:33:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A 500 dollar day rate isn't exactly highway robbery. Hell, you'll pay your mechanic close to the same, but a photographer doesn't deserve that kind of money?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:52:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
cheshirecat79 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:01:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You can take a picture, sure. Can you take one that someone will buy? It's the same as being a mechanic and working on a car versus fixing the issue.
People don't pay photographers to "take pictures" like you're suggesting. They paying them to produce an image of a particular thing in a way that accomplishes a specific set of goals. Pointing a camera in a general direction and pushing the shutter will rarely result in material that people would be happy to compensate you for.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:28:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, but that does not mean you're skilled enough to turn out a decent product. You're supposed to be the professional and know things others don't. The problem is those people don't know anything about photography so they have no idea how shitty their photographer is.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:37:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:04:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not my profession. I took the time to get good at it though, unlike the hack "professionals" that flood the profession these days.
That said, I agree, going to art school for photography is a move for kids with rich parents so they can have a fun career with the understanding that if they fail there's a safety net.
cyberworm_ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:18:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not just getting paid, but consistency. Those should be the two benchmarks of a professional.
If you show someone a portfolio, and they point and say "I want you to do this for me," then you should be able to accomplish and get results. Especially without wasting time.
Strictly speaking, professional means paid, but a real professional brings way more than that to a job.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:25:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
cyberworm_ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:51:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I did actually say that. I think that in professional situations, there are certain expectations. Just because someone pays me to play basketball, because I showed them one good shot, if I can't consistently perform as advertised, that's not professional... That's borderline fraud.
My point was that if I as a pro photographer sell myself to you based on a portfolio, I damn sure better know what I'm doing, and deliver results. Consistent, repeatable, expected results.
I've seen a lot of people going around calling themselves pro photographers, selling themselves based on portfolios consisting of mostly lucky shots. If you asked them to do it again, they'd be dumbfounded and probably waste most of your day trying to replicate the same thing. A pro would know how they did it, do it, and deliver. That's what people should pay for and expect of a professional. You can be as pedantic as you like, but I think my definition of professional is more in line with what people think it means, which is not at all unreasonable.
csl512 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:01:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Technically true.
But producing good work is a separate issue.
Dio_Frybones ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:19:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It does technically, by one definition of the word, but there are other very clearly defined definitions and depending on context, the assumed definition is usually that a professional has a recognised level of formal training as well as membership of industry associations which carry strict requirements for conduct, ethics and ongoing training. You can complete a four year engineering degree and when you graduate you absolutely cannot call yourself a professional engineer. In Australia anyway.
The same applies for professional photographers and it would be pedantic but more importantly, deceitful and misleading for someone to describe themselves as 'professional' simply because someone once paid them to take a few photos.
The top definition of any given word is not the most important one. The most important definition is the one that is agreed upon by consensus/common usage in any given context.
If I describe my wife as a 'fox' I assume that only a very small fraction of Reddit will ask me to post photos of her bushy tail.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:40:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Dio_Frybones ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:27:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hey, don't apologise, because by your definition I'm also a professional musician, professional writer, professional teacher, professional builder, professional emergency responder, and professional driver, so if my day job as a professional electronics technician doesn't pan out, I can get new business cards printed up. So thanks for that, I'm feeling much better about myself than when I woke up this morning.
And, no, I'm not a professional photographer. I'm a just a very good photographer with 35 years experience.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:33:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Dio_Frybones ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:10:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
At no point did I argue that the definition was wrong, or I certainly didn't mean to. What was wrong was your determination to doggedly stick to one narrow definition.
But I'll address your point about the lucky amateur. If they are consistently capable of obtaining great shots (ie, suitable for publication) regardless of lighting conditions (mixed daylight and artificial light) and know enough about exposure compensation to capture the texture of a white bridal dress against a backdrop of snow, or a black cat's fur in a coal mine (without peeking at the screen after each shot) then, maybe, they can claim a level of professionalism. If they carry contracts and have public indemnity insurance and are prepared to incur all costs associated with reshooting an event because they stuffed it up on the day, then, yes, I'll call them a professional. But if I were in charge of an advertising campaign and was paying a lot of people a lot of money (models, art directors, stylists, set designers) then I'd be looking for someone who had some form of association with an accredited body. They would call these people professional photographers, they would all know exactly what they were talking about, and if your dictionary doesn't also include this very common meaning of the word, then it's a shitty dictionary or possibly they had to leave out words to make room for the pictures.
Have a nice day.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:52:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If someone pays me $20 when I help them move it doesn't make a professional mover. Or if I get paid to babysit for a couple of hours, I am no way a professional babysitter/nanny whatever.
Runningwithvanhalen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:22:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Professional noun 1. a person engaged or qualified in a profession
By your logic I only need to try to do something to be considered a professional, not actually be good
xHearthStonerx ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:28:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That says OR. Not AND.
Engaged in a profession.
Runningwithvanhalen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:39:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Does just having a camera make you engaged?
xHearthStonerx ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:53:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Are you purposefully not comprehending what you're reading? If you are engaged in a PROFESSION, you are a professional.
Each word in that sentence has a purpose and a meaning.
Runningwithvanhalen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:51:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes but what level causes you to be engaged? Does it mean you own a camera? Does it mean you have been doing it for awhile? When do you go from random dude with a camera to professional photographer?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:25:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Runningwithvanhalen ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:56:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If I wanted to be a lawyer, I would need to take the specified classes to be a lawyer. Just having free time, and deciding that I am good at arguing does not make me a professional lawyer. If I wanted to be a wrestler, even a bad one, I couldn't just walk up off the streets and start wrestling. I would likely get hurt without proper training. If every person with a camera is a professional photographer, then how come I can charge so much more than them? Why would anyone hire someone to take their pictures when it would be so much easier to rent a camera? Photography is art like any other, and even if you don't take special classes you still need a lot of experience before you can consider your work professional.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:44:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Runningwithvanhalen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:13:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Professional isn't the problem, you don't understand what engaged means
TerribleAttitude ยท 221 points ยท Posted at 16:54:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's always Evangelical Christian women who like country music, coffee! (and talking about coffee! Did you know coffee is amazing? As if everyone in the universe doesn't like coffee), and wearing bulky white sweaters with riding boots. And somehow, despite living in the built-up suburbs, all promotional photographs (usually of other women in bulky white sweaters and riding boots, or of guys in cowboy hats) are apparently taken in some pastoral field 80 miles from nowhere.
My facebook feed has pretty much specifically been tailored to avoid this type of person, and yet, like you, I see this happen on a roughly monthly basis on facebook, and 90% of these friends of friends look the same, act the same, and take the exact same pictures.
snakeoil-huckster ยท 48 points ยท Posted at 17:32:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Don't forget the mandatory pic on the train track
TerribleAttitude ยท 55 points ยท Posted at 17:43:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can do engagement photos! Options:
Note: cowboy hats mandatory
snakeoil-huckster ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 18:39:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can we do something on a bridge? Perhaps where we look aimlessly to the distance? We definitely need one where we make a heart with our hands.
Do you recommend matching shirts or will matching cowboy boots be good enough.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:19:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I recommend matching cyanide pills.
bicycle_mice ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 17:41:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Don't forget, they love wine too.
Bababooey247 ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 17:57:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I could see it in my mind. Only my Facebook feed has pregnant women in pastoral fields with their shirts pulled up over their stomach creepily rubbing their belly.
BoneslyGrifter ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 19:05:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Soon," she hissed into the wind. "Soon."
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:57:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And don't forget their Instagram pages with their pictures on it that have like 12 followers
ingridelena ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:51:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lmao yep I know so many people who fit this stereotype to a tee.
MissAye ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:52:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This,100% I was in a Christian sorority and this describes what all of them have become.
TerribleAttitude ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:21:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I really want to know what the deal is. Because I also knew a handful of Evangelical Christian girls who (despite most of them going to college) seemed to be brought up of the mind that women shouldn't have a career outside of wife, mother, or maaaaaaaaaaybe midwife, and ended up "doing photography," a few making a legitimate enough living out of it. Why is "photographer" so popular in this community compared to basically any other job? Is "photographer" somehow a more modest, feminine, godly profession compared to, IDK, "teacher" or "nurse" or "bank teller?"
mountainmarmot ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:42:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This...is amazing. You managed to pretty much exactly describe this phenomenon. Do you see many of them also slyly advertising for products like BeachBody and vitamin Shake Neal replacements?
I_Am_Ironman_AMA ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:54:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I agree but leave the sexy riding boots out of it!
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:22:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know someone who's exactly this and I'm laughing my ass off.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:57:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most, if not all, of my SAHM friends on Facebook have since become photographers or some kind of pyramid scheme "ambassador."
atomic223 ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 17:12:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My mom did this but actually took classes and studied and started a small business. She made a pretty good name for herself in our city (she specialized in baby photography but also shot the occasional wedding, senior pictures, etc.) but "retired" when she had our youngest sister. Now shes passed the proverbial photography torch to my sister, who is also quite good.
See? It doesn't always have to suck
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:23:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'll be the judge of that thankyouvermuch.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:16:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Two girls I went to high school with both did the same thing and they started fighting when certain friends would choose one or the other for engagement pictures or whatever.
meatfrappe ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:20:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yup! And god forbid if you pick an actual professional photographer instead of either of them--then both of them are pissed.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:22:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
meatfrappe ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:24:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Indeed. Side note: The posting of an ultrasound image is a great heads-up that you'll want to start hiding posts from that user.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:16:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I want to get an ultra sound machine and create an online profile just ultra sounding things that aren't babies.
hollowmoon ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:01:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I had a girl I knew in high school do this recently except she had just figured out how to use basic filters in photoshop. She kept trying to push "chrome effect" on people to purchase.
oldnyoung ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:37:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ah yes, the Mom With A Camera, or MWAC, as photography forums call them.
coprolite_hobbyist ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 16:23:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I used to be really into photography. Developed my own film so I could push/pull the ISO, printed my own pics so I could dodge and burn and other neat effects. Invested in a decent mid-range set-up and lenses. Read up on technique, studied composition and lighting. I mean I was really serious about it. Then along comes consumer digital photography. At first I was excited. No more worrying about running out of film! No more trying to wrangle dark room time! And then the flood of people like you just described came.
I don't even take snapshots now. Just stuff for documentation purposes.
[deleted] ยท 186 points ยท Posted at 16:25:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
coprolite_hobbyist ยท 42 points ยท Posted at 16:30:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It wasn't exactly just a hobby. It was a secondary duty when I was in the military and I did real estate photography for a while. I don't think that really makes me a professional photographer, but I was more than a hobbyist.
I'm not really sure why I quit. But when everyone could do (shitty) photography with little or no effort put into it, it just lost it's appeal. It also probably had something to do with doing it as a job. No better way to kill the love of a hobby than to get a job doing it.
TheBrainwasher14 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:31:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Opposite for me, made me wanna rise above the crowd and get some good shots. It's worked well, I have a great resume of awesome pics to show people now, and I know my way around a DSLR now.
coprolite_hobbyist ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:33:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That certainly makes me feel better. I have nothing against all those people that got into it, I know that I was the only cause of my disaffection. With the ease of entry, I'm sure that many talented people will show up that wouldn't have been able to get into it back when the cost of entry was higher.
BlenderGuru ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:29:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But if you were as skilled at it as you say you were, surely you could see that the newbies weren't as good as you?
coprolite_hobbyist ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:36:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't actually say I was skilled. I was certainly technically proficient, but I was never really pleased with my artistic abilities.
Also, I don't think it was a logical reaction. It really didn't have anything to do with all the people coming into it, it was just a shift in my perception of it as the new technology introduced a huge paradigm shift.
PsychoNovak ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:56:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I hope he was saying that the loss of development and the turn to digital is what killed his interest in the hobby but he totally sounds like a hipster who quit because it became mainstream and available to more people.
cheshirecat79 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:36:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, it sounds like he was into it more because of the niche aspect and not for the creative purpose. There's nothing wrong with that, though. Everyone enjoys their hobbies for their own reasons.
Alonminatti ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:28:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
He's saying that the availability of good digital photography equipment that is largely automatic removed the skill and patience required to get good at the practice of his art , which made him feel worthless at his now-lost art
meatfrappe ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:28:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
/u/coprolite_hobbyist has always had shitty taste in hobbies.
coprolite_hobbyist ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:33:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Funny story, I actually have no interest in coprolites. I'm also rather coprophobic.
SenorBeef ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:55:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Aw, I'm sorry having a hobby become accessible and mainstream ruins your hipster cred.
coprolite_hobbyist ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:01:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It was before hipsters were a thing, but that does sound about like what happened.
The_Evolved_Monkey ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:41:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You just described my college experience. I was a photo major prior to digital cameras emergence and really loved my skills when it came to manual darkroom manipulations of photographs prior to Photoshop. I would masterfully (compared to my peers, hardly a master while still a student. ) dodge and burn, double expose and blend negatives together, all in total darkness. And then right at the beginning of my senior year the first dlsr came out that could rival 35mm in resolution. I saw the tide turning and got out of the dying media I was in. I sold all my medium format gear and like 1-2 years later dlsr was surpassing 70mm quality. Photoshop had also emerged and proven that in minutes the same effects could be accomplished that would take me hours of trial and error in the darkroom to accomplish.
dale_glass ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:51:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ah, the modern day Lewis Carroll.
Lewis Carroll (yes, the Alice in Wonderland guy) gave up photography because the dry developing process that was invented in his time made things too easy. We're talking about a process that nobody even really remembers anymore, and was a predecessor to the modern analog photography with rolls of film, but it still was enough to spoil things for him. Carroll would have probably been horrified by modern analog photography.
coprolite_hobbyist ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:55:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's terrible that I let it ruin my interest in photography, I really enjoyed it. Although I think perhaps I was a bit taken with the mystique of it. The idea of the 'lone photographer making art' was always appealing to me. I'd hate to think I was so shallow that it was the driving force behind my attraction to it.
DakotaBashir ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:40:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If its of any consolation for you, i was part of that flood of people... and i don't take pictures anymore.
coprolite_hobbyist ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:43:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think that is what happens to most of them. With so little investment, it's easy to give it up. I don't blame those people, it's not their fault, I just lost my passion for it when everybody could do it.
VirtualAlias ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:23:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A few months later, having had no success as a professional photographer, she will decide that she is actually a Graphic Designer.
TheMilkMan4 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:50:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can I give you more than one upvote?!
meatfrappe ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:56:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes. Use this comment to do it ;)
mew5175_TheSecond ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:05:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
i kind of want to start a business called Stupidname Photography now.
meatfrappe ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:23:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do it. I will be the first person to not hire you and have you unfriend me.
2_minutes_in_the_box ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:12:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Awesome opportunity for cheap professional photos, though. I use a facebook friend for my family. 50 bucks. FIFTY BUCKS!
CATS_BOOBS_GAMING ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:05:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
so fucking true.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:32:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I laugh because I just experienced the above in that exact order
keepmoving2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:55:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
http://youarenotaphotographer.com/ this blog hasn't been update in a while, but it's basically what you described
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:05:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Haha holy shit. You just described so many women on my friends list. If only I had a dollar for every "__________ Photography" Facebook page I've been invited to.
Ermagherden ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:09:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
LOL i just saw this happen a year ago.. I think its verbatim too lol. Even worst.. She was a tricaratops so it made her even more obnoxious.
testrail ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:14:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As someone who got strong armed into this for our engagement photos, and ended up getting nothing but 20 photos posted facebook...fuck this person so hard.
ffuckfuckfuckfuck ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:18:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ugh, you just perfectly described my sister. I'm a bird-watching hobbyist photography, my other sister has an actual art background with multiple photography classes under her belt, aaaand then there's stay at home mom sister. Who likes to pretends she lives on planet pinterest and shoots into the sun for every single one of her photo shoots.
oj-93 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:21:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
omfg this is hilariously true you just described my sister lmao
kperkins1982 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:39:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Whats even worse is when you buy an SLR and everybody else thinks you are a photographer and wants you to do their wedding, for free.
Dude, you know why actual photographers charge 2 grand for a wedding? That is because all those cameras and lenses, and an assistant cost money, and it is sort of a bitch dealing with all those people and pushy family all the while knowing they will hate you if you don't get everything exactly how they want
For gods sakes I'm not a photographer, I just have a nice camera, now leave me alone
fireflygalaxies ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:40:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
People actually pay my aunt for pictures. I don't know how, or why. Her poses are awful (one picture was a front view of a daughter on her hands and knees with the dad on his knees behind her), lighting is terrible, there's no sense of balance or composition. Her pictures are either unedited or edited until it's dead. She's not very good at Photoshop either, so she tries to do "artsy" pictures that are black and white with color pops. Only the colors all have rough edges and often leak onto things that are supposed to be black and white, because I don't think she knows what the pen tool is.
I just don't get it. I don't get how someone can pay over $100 for pictures that look like something your mother or friend could do for free. And she has no sense of humility about it at all! She honest-to-god sees herself as a professional.
Kashtin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:50:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I got into photography as my hobbies always fucking change, and I absolutely hate these people. I will likely never call myself a photographer. I hope I'm going down the right path. I love post, shoot primarily in aperture priority, and have myself a single camera and two prime lenses.
Flamboyatron ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:53:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is typical of military spouses, as well. So many of them do this...
ehkodiak ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:03:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh god its so true. That and I'm a profeshnul buzniss woman working by myself! (Selling forever living or other mlm scheme shite)
Zombie_Whisperer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:03:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Holy shit, you just described my sister. :/
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:15:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You just described my step-mom.
And yes, the "as a mother..." attitude comes with that.
McVeeth ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:33:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I hate seeing pictures with [stupid name] photography watermarks. Makes me want to slap someone.
McVeeth ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:33:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I hate seeing pictures with [stupid name] photography watermarks. Makes me want to slap someone.
nickrulz11 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:35:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"FIRSTNAME MIDDLENAME PHOTOGRAPHY" where the middle name is usually Lee, Jane or Marie.
CollegeZach ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:18:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit needs a /r/ for this! It can be filled with terrible photos that people water mark and actually think are good.
Basic_Becky ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:19:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My boyfriend's sister literally did this. Can't upvote enough. lol
Ironically, my friends who are actual photographers (I tend to have a lot of photojournalist buddies) like to post camera phone pictures, which all look amazing BTW. I'm pretty sure it's their way of bragging. lol
onyxandcake ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:31:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
About 17 of my friends have done this, and only 1 of them is making a living wage. Why? She spent a ton of her own money on photography classes, exciting software, professional backdrops, lighting and props. Now she makes more than she did as teacher and can work from home. It just happens that she has to work 12-14 hour days, 6 days a week in return.
EnnexBe ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:31:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Quite often it's "[First Name] [Middle Name] Photography".
I've got about 9 Facebook friends who are seemingly devoid of any sort of creativity.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:43:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is exactly my mother at the moment, except replace "kid" with puppy.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:22:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ahahaha, this describes so many women I know. A very small portion of them are decent. Most are awful. I'm like "dear god, someone paid you for that shit?"
As someone with subpar photography skills who makes $0 of those subpar skills, I wonder if I am in the wrong business.
antonio106 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:22:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My office hired one of these "mom-with-coolpix" people to do our office portraits for the website. It turned out precisely as shitty as you might imagine it would.
Getting a real photographer to get mine done later cost me $400.00+, but the difference was night and day.
dackinthebox ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:33:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
4 friends on Facebook and counting. Shits ridiculous.
ironoctopus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:45:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
get out of my facebook feed.
akharon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:52:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because artists who are commissioned to do big works are born with the talent, it shouldn't take years of practice and training.
I see the same thing. Luckily, a friend of ours is an actual pro, with photoshoots in magazines, etc (she does her own post-process work). The difference between what we get and what I see other people paying for is night and day.
Frictus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:57:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In my experience its more- rich parents get girl expensive camera for Christmas. She takes pictures and water marks them. Has a few friends run around in her backyard and posts them on her fb page. Goes to art school that rich parents pay for.
Feverel ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:13:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's all fun and games until family and friends invite you to their weddings as a guest but also expect you to be their photographer.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:15:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If she's having fun and people are willing to pay for it then get over it. That's the beauty of the American dream
OfficeChairHero ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:30:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My husband just bought an expensive camera with several lenses to help out a desolate friend. We don't know shit about it. Are there any good subreddits for beginners? I promise not to pretend I'm a pro. I have a full time job.
specialvillain ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:34:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'll do you one better. I know a "photographer" with this same story who does all the photography for a major global brand. They have owned a camera for 3 years.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:46:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
and thus is born: Angels Wings Photography.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:46:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can confirm. Cousin did/still does this on her facebook after getting knocked up. She also gained a ton of weight, and would get upset if you didn't find the nude baby pictures cute. Had to defriend her.
streamlined_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:03:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
TIL DSLR stands for decent SLR.
GreatNorthWeb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:13:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know a woman started this way and now she's an award winning photographer who supports her entire family (including her husband) with her art. She literally started with a photoshop filter and grew her eye and her art from that one innocuous photo.
richmana ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:35:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep! However, one of my friends has actually become successful doing this after she and her husband had their first kid.
birdsofterrordise ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:19:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do we have the same facebook feed? I have about 10 of those on my feed right now.
NastyBuzzard ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:39:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For some reason I started out reading that in Rorshachs voice.
ThePrinceofBelAir ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:03:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Holy shit. This describes my friend exactly but even worse is that she has had many failed etsy and YouTube projects as well.
Marysthrow ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:08:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm one of these people. But, for the record, I had people telling me on a fairly regular basis how much they liked my photos and that I should do it as a business. Pair that with an actual passion for photography and I started my own business. I've been trying to get it off the ground while working a steady job and going to school, but there's so many other people who have the same type of camera and friends who let them take photos for a portfolio and it's hard to compete.
So I sign up for craft fairs to show my portfolio, get my name out there, and sell shots that don't have people in them... buildings, nature shots, that type of stuff. I still love photography, but am 90% sure the business will never take off because of the huge amount of other people with a DSLR and a facebook page.
ProfessorOfCunning ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:15:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Truth!!!
OniTan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:14:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Woman starts fucking pool boy while husband is at work.
Husband comes home early and tries to shoot woman and pool boy.
Raptor comes up on the side of man, man says, "Clever girl."
Dinosaur eats man, woman inherits the Earth.
Carfan99 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:19:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Reclame photography with "YOUTUBER"
Aaaandiiii ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:41:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I briefly had that kind of feeling that I could get into photography. I got tons of compliments and I was like "Hey, I could develop this as a hobby seriously and go from there."
But some nagging voice in the back of my head put me in my place. I don't have the eye to be a photographer aside from candid shots.
My brother however, he has the patience and and eye for good shots. He was shooting pictures as a guest at a friend's wedding much to the annoyance to the actual photographer. The actual photographer's pictures were over processed while my brother's actually looked share-worthy.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:32:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There's one of those in a local group I belong to. It wouldn't bother me at all if she could actually take a decent photo. Like, I'm not even trained in how to use a damn camera and I can look at one of her photos and point out five things wrong with it! And she's probably posting her "best" photos to entice people into hiring her! It's so awful that I wish I could block her, but she posts stuff about meetings. It drives me crazy to see her horrible "photography".
fosiacat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:32:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
dude. spot on. was part of the reason i got rid of facebook. got so sick of all the fauxtographers.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:08:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Basic bitches 101: Fauxtography and the Social Networking Platforms
IntentionalTexan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:13:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Corollary to this. I took photography in high school and since then I have purchased a string of nice cameras. Add to that I married a woman with an actual art degree. Mix together with my cheap family and friends and now we keep getting asked to take pictures at people's weddings. We said yes a few times and it never worked out well.
NoSenseOfRythym ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:13:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I'm not sure why, but it always seems to be youngish women who do this. I consider myself to be a hobbyist photographer; I've done a couple of paid projects, but I wouldn't call myself a pro.
But these girls, they get a entry level DSLR with a kit lens, and suddenly I see "Firstname Middlename Photography" on Facebook, riddled with fair-to-middle pics, all stamped with watermarks and copyright notices. Like anyone wants to steal your awful photos.
Edit: I don't want to discourage any aspiring photographers; we all start as unskilled amateurs with hundreds/thousands of terrible images. But maybe wait to sharpen your skills a bit before going pro and inundating my newsfeed.
webwulf ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:17:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is a huge issue on military bases. I have a selection of about 500 "professional" photographers to choose from within a 3 mile radius.
stovinchilton ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:25:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know someone that did this after having a child. Now neither her or her husband works anymore they live very well off her photography business. She is so booked its crazy
MyPicksAreHiding ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:55:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Whats wrong with getting a hobby?
W01F360 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:40:49 on January 29, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Are you me?!?
Chicken-n-Waffles ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:41:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lasts no more than 2 years. They take family photos, couple photos, baby photos. Then they have that second kid.
majorjae ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:20:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is me and my wife. Difference is she knows she isn't professional and she uses the watermarks to try and make sure no one uses our kids picture (which someone has tried already)
dlbear ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:51:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah my wife went through that phase.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:58:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There are 2 women in my family that this has happened with. Drives me nuts.
tibsalot ยท 628 points ยท Posted at 13:45:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's actually really hard to take great quality pictures. My girlfriend says she wants her sister to take pictures at her wedding, but I know damn well I'm paying a professional photographer for it. The difference in quality won't even be close.
shelvedtopcheese ยท 1245 points ยท Posted at 15:28:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To win this argument tactfully, you should consider saying something like, "Babe, if your sister is worried about taking pictures she won't be able to enjoy the day with us. It's a special day she should share in rather than taking pictures from the sidelines."
dthvt ยท 464 points ยท Posted at 16:14:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly this. I have a friend who is actually a well established professional photographer that I refused to hire for this reason. He later told me that it was the first wedding he'd been to in a long time that he could just relax and enjoy. That type of experience for your friends and family is more important than "giving them business".
sailthetethys ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 21:23:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
THANK YOU!! I have friends and family that to this day get upset and hurt because I turn down their offers. I haven't shot a wedding in ages, and my equipment is pretty much obsolete. Just let me enjoy the day - it really sucks watching all your friends dance and drink and celebrate while you're running around making sure you're getting everything and trying to field requests from their bossy distant relatives who think you're there to take free family portraits for all the guests.
naddi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:38:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My dad was a professional photographer for 35 years. Weddings were his bread and butter, and often one of my sisters or I would assist (we were like, 12). It always bothered him to do weddings of friends and family because a) we were invited as a family to go celebrate but dad would end up working the whole time and b) he felt compelled to give a discount because it was family. This was also back in day when he would shoot in black and white and develop the photos himself. So it was a lot of work for no profit and you didn't get to enjoy your cousin's wedding. It's a real bummer. I'm glad you were conscientious about it!
Neromatic ยท 155 points ยท Posted at 16:31:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a professional photographer, I recently went to a friend's wedding I was sure I would be asked to shoot. Damn, it was so refreshing to not have the responsibilities and to enjoy myself.
bn1979 ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 18:33:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Same boat. Last wedding I was at where I wasn't working was my own - 9 years ago.
imperi0 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:25:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My brother's fiancee just asked me to shoot their wedding. :/ I am a wedding photographer and I took their engagement photos, so I guess I can understand that she thought it'd be an appropriate thing to ask, but...come on. I have one brother. I just want to enjoy the day.
lissabeth777 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:07:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I take a lot of pictures at family events because I can take a decent picture. However, the act of documenting an event take you outside of the event in a lot of ways. You aren't participating...you are only an observer.
LaDiDaLady ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:22:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When I was the maid of honor for my friend's wedding, we solved this issue with her cousin by hiring a professional photographer and telling her we "wanted to make sure two people could get all the perspectives, because even though you're an amazing photographer, you can't be in two places at once!"
Worked well.
ShutUpIWin ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:50:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Also, maybe consider telling her you don't want to not have documented a certain detail of the party because the sister was out there having fun. And, what about the pictures the sister should be in? Will some random guest be taking those?
shelvedtopcheese ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 17:14:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That might work, but in general trying to argue about how the logistics would work only opens the conversation up to further debate or possibly even implying that what you really think is the sister isn't competent for the job. Arguing about the logistics is only going to challenge her to continue to justify why her sister is capable or could do it rather than making her think about how it will feel in the moment.
There are a lot of reasons that her sister is a shitty choice for being a photographer--including the reasons you listed--but you want to play up the one that's going to resonate. You go for emotional resonance in this case because it's clear that his fiancee's current idea has totally set aside with reason or rationality.
It's pretty hard to pick apart, "This is an important day for us and our families. I don't think she should have to play role of the full-time observer just for the sake of us saving a few hundred bucks. Don't you want her there beside you enjoying the moment with you?"
Again, I would imagine the reason his fiancee likes the idea having her sister take the pictures has to do with how it will feel being able to say, "Look at my wedding photos--my sister did them." You don't want to invalidate that (even if you know the sister takes dog shit photos on a potato phone), so the best way to negotiate in to a no-lose proposition is say that by getting a paid photographer it will allow her sister is free to be part of the full experience and will still be able to take her magnificent photos of the more candid moments.
--I have no idea why I'm trying to solve hypothetical problems about other people's lives who I don't know on a Saturday morning, but there you are.
dingbat186 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:25:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Tell her you want her sister and another photographer. So youll able to capture more and have different angles.
sailthetethys ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:17:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I made decent money as a photographer since a lot of friends and acquaintances hired me to save $$$ rather than book a professional. That's exactly why I stopped completely and refuse requests. It was so stressful. I hated it.
sadcatscry4you ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:44:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was given the camera at my mother in laws wedding...right before...I'm not even a photographer. That wedding sucked.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:21:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I tried that with my sister. Yeah, still had to take photos. The force is real, and it is in the form of family guilt.
Tshirt_Addict ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:27:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
10 ranks in Diplomacy here.
Shrinky-Dinks ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 08:40:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe my standards are unreasonable but I wouldn't want to be marrying a woman I had to lie to to convince her about something.
shelvedtopcheese ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:03:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not sure why you think it's lying. It's pretty basic negotiation so that both parties can get what they want without really sacrificing anything. There's no dishonesty involved if you actually believe her sister should not be given that particular responsibility for the day. You're just making a choice to emphasize a set of values that will appeal to your girlfriend in order to smoothly negotiate for something you both want which seems quality wedding pictures as well as having some special shots the sister took.
If you're really of the opinion that your girlfriend should respect your wish for a professional just because her sister is a flat-out shitty photographer, then you're not being respectful of her position and invalidating her feelings. From my experience in relationships, I would say that is an unreasonable standard.
Shrinky-Dinks ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:18:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks for your input. In the scenario I thought it was dishonest because I assumed you didn't actually believe that. Based on my experience with Facebook photographers I'd assume she really wanted to be the photographer and is bringing that camera weather you ask her to or not.
As for the second part I don't think it's disrespectful to disagree with someone. You wouldn't take your car to a bad mechanic to try and respect someone's opinion would you?
Dotjr ยท 148 points ยท Posted at 15:13:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Good plan. I've met with many clients who knew someone who had their wedding shot by a friend or family member. As you can imagine the results were less than stellar.
On the other hand, make sure your professional is actually a professional. There are some really terrible "photographers" out there. Be wary of cheap deals. Sometimes you get what you paid for.
Edit: I English good.
beartheminus ยท 61 points ยท Posted at 16:08:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's funny that professional has been associated with good. You even used it in this context to explain that a professional is a professional. It's been engrained into the language but its not always true.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 16:22:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well the definition of the word is both a job done for money, and someone who maintains appropriate and courteous business relationships. The latter is what he meant.
Curtalius ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:15:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah but the implication is that they can make a living doing it for money, which implies some level of quality.
MpVpRb ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:56:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
..and "amateur" has been associated with bad
A professional does it for money. It's likely that (s)he is good, otherwise, people wouldn't pay. But, the pro needs to get it done quickly, or they can't make enough money
An amateur does it for love (the literal definition of the word). They may suck mightily, or may be far better than a professional, since they can afford to take as much time as necessary to get it perfect
Dotjr ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:54:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is the thing, I mean professional in both contexts. There are photographers in my area that I look up to because the quality of their work is outstanding. But then there are those that have subpar work, but yet still make a lot of money. Technically they are still professionals but their work is still garbage, but it has a place.
Think about the difference between McDonald's burgers and Five Guys. Both are providing you with burgers, but Five Guys is so much better.
beartheminus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:15:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I understand, but Five Guys is called Five Guys, and McDonalds is called McDonalds. I just dislike how our language uses the same word, professional, to describe two very different concepts. One, that the person simply makes money from the craft, and second, that they are excellent at this craft. It can lead to confusion over who simply is designated as a business, and who is actually good at what they do.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:24:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I got bad news -- the complexity of the language only goes downhill from the varied meanings of the word 'professional'
rivzz ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:25:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Its not that confusing if you listen or look at the context the word is used in. He is a professional soccer player vs their work is very professional. One means he gets paid to play soccer, the other means they do great work. No one introduces themselves saying hi, im a professional landscaper or professional salesmen. Just like how Amateur means unpaid or just unskilled. Professional could mean paid or skilled depending on ccontext.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:40:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I agree. I just point and click and I prefer my pics to professional ones. I hate posed pics.
Pardonme23 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:36:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But its more likely than amateur, and that's true
MacTheBartender ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:55:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Best bit of advice I can offer... Ask to see an entire wedding album.
Their site/facebook page/whatever might have a photo or two from each event. Even a stopped clock is a good photographer twice a day. You're going to want more than two photos, so see a complete album from an event... were they actually able to consistently keep up that quality, or was it just throwing stuff at the wall?
burstintoflames ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:29:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Weary means tired. Wary means cautious.
IrrelevantLeprechaun ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:02:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If the family liked the photos from the "bad" photographer, does it really matter?
Dotjr ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:47:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No not at all. But couples have told me how the images did not come out well.
It's more than just pushing a button, composition and lighting. Getting the right expression and key moments are very important. This takes practice.
spritanium ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:53:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This applies to pretty much any profession that doesn't require a license.
Especially when hiring an artist, the ONLY thing that should sell you is the actual quality of the work.
sonofaresiii ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:40:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
It's really not. It takes a little learning how everything works and maybe when to use your flash and how (if you're a studio photographer you'll need to learn how to light)
but beyond that what you're really paying for in a wedding photographer is the specialization of skills a wedding photographer. Someone can be the freaking best at taking pictures but totally blow it as a wedding photographer-- not knowing when to be or where, not knowing the best angle to get to take certain pictures from, not knowing the best lens to use at specific times, not knowing the most romantic poses or fun poses for the bride/groom and their wedding party, not being able to find the best locations, etc. etc. etc.
none of that is really about the pictures themselves, it's about experience in knowing what people want out of wedding pictures.
same deal when you pay someone to take your family photo-- they know the tricks on how to make your baby smile, how to get your teenager out of his angsty slump, how to position the family to make it adorable, etc.
not really about the picture quality
e: and any photographers secure enough in their talent and skill won't have trouble admitting it-- the talent and skill isn't about making what you shoot look good, it's about knowing what to shoot
desertedcities55 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:20:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My brother had a family friend offer to do his wedding for free. I guess he's happy with the pictures but damn. They're bad.
dale_glass ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:01:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Amateur here.
I once accepted taking wedding photos, only because the couple was pretty much broke, and if it wasn't me, nobody would. Holy shit was I underprepared, but I still managed to pull something vaguely decent off. Wedding photography is absolutely nothing like the photos people take in their free time.
There are no do overs in weddings. If your camera dies, you drop it, the batteries run out, the card is bad, you're screwed. Weddings move quickly. You need not only to be able to take a good photo, but to take it quickly, with minimal preparation. You need good equipment, and no, the cheapest Canon camera with kit lens won't do. You need high end, preferably f/2.8 zoom lenses, a flash and backup hardware in case something goes horribly wrong. Then there's the need to know what's going on, where you're needed, etc. You absolutely need to be able to take good photos on the first try, no "let me try this again" at crucial parts. It's a wedding, not a movie.
That's the bare minimum. Then a good wedding photographer of course knows weddings, knows all the typical poses and photos people will want, makes sure not to leave out anybody, knows how to deal with the bride's aunt with a just bought DSLR barging in, and has the ability to talk to everyone and make sure they'll be happy with the results.
It was an awfully stressful day, and I won't be doing it again before I improve by a lot.
WorkingISwear ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:43:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wish more people knew this. I had two very close friends of mine get married a while back and I told them that I'd get one of my photographer buddies to do it on the cheap as a favor to me. I used to be a wedding photographer myself so I know some great folks. He agreed to do a 12 hour day for $1k, which is about 1/4 of his normal price.
They decided that they'd rather save the money and have a girl who works for one of them shoot it since she's kind of in to photography and has a "pretty good camera." It was an entry level crop frame nikon and kit lens. I looked through her photos and it was mostly shots of flowers and very poorly done landscapes.
I ended up shooting their wedding as their gift, because I refused to let them have shit pictures from their wedding day. Once they got their images they couldn't thank me enough.
open_door_policy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:11:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A phrase I've heard is "there are photographers, and then there are wedding photographers" spoken in much the same kind of tone you'd say war photographer.
There is no way I would deal with a first time director in a high stakes, once in a lifetime, single take production.
Instead I'll take relatively low stress shoots, like trailing rednecks on the bayou huntin gators, or real time searches for Mexican cartel leaders.
WorkingISwear ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:48:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I remember reading an interview by a well known war photographer ages ago when it was something I wanted to get in to. One of the questions he was asked was how best to prepare yourself to shoot a war. His answer was simply "Shoot weddings."
quantum-quetzal ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:16:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've been an enthusiast since I was 12, and somewhat of a professional for the last few months. Last summer, after graduating, a family friend asked me to shoot her wedding, and even offered to pay me a decent amount. I turned it down, because I know that I don't have the necessary gear or skills to do them justice. I would have felt really bad taking payment for my level of skill. They ended up hiring a much better photographer at my advice, and they got a bunch of great photos.
Weep2D2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:35:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
our wedding?
dumbolddoor ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:28:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a photographer and I shot one wedding. The family loved the photos and the sisters were envious. Sister later gets engaged but doesn't want to pay my price. Hires a friend. Photos suck. Bride cries tears of regret.
Schnitzngigglez ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:14:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you need a way to "keep the peace" have her sister do something like engagement photos or something. But def hire a professional for the wedding.
Arkazex ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:00:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The lengths photographers go to to get some shots is quite impressive. What looks like a nice shot over a still pond could very well have been taken by somebody hanging upside down off the edge of a footbridge.
methinksitlikea ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:36:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes! Please hire a professional! I was convinced to take photos at a friend's wedding after I'd warned them several times I don't have professional equipment or experience and do NOT know how to pose people. I have a nice camera and take good pics of my cat in good lighting so they figured I'd be great. I could tell the bride was not pleased with the result.
FloppyG ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:23:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not really, point and shoot.
WorkingISwear ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:46:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, the camera does all the work and if you just set the little dial to "P" or "Auto" it'll all look professional, right? I mean, the people who study photography for years and practice daily are just wasting time, clearly.
FloppyG ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:14:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Pretty much, yeah.
greenlaser3 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:58:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Going with some random girl my mother in law knew from church as our photographer is probably the one thing my wife and I regret from our wedding. It was still expensive, and the pictures weren't great. But that's wasn't the worst thing. The worst thing was, in a world where you can get TBs of storage for a few hundred bucks, she deleted most of our pictures. She picked the few that she liked, and then completely deleted the rest before even checking with us. Wasn't fun telling my grandma that we lost a rare family picture that included all her out-of-town grandkids...
Go with a professional. Pictures are one of the few things that last from your wedding, so you might as well get them done right.
JerkJenkins ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:21:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do both! Hire a professional photographer and say your girlfriend's sister is the alternative/backup photographer.
You get great photos and please the in-law. And, if your girlfriend's sister does manage to take a great photo, you can keep it!
WorkingISwear ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:49:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Don't do this. She'll get in the way of the pro and make things way more difficult. The pro will likely have an assistant that already knows how to anticipate his needs and do what needs to be done. Another body ignorant of the trade will only complicate things.
Sevruga ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:30:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have been asked a number of times and always reply that if they hire a professional I am happy to take some too, to contribute. Every photographers sees things differently and even if they like a few of mine they are welcome to them. But I am not taking in the stress of a (hopefully) once in a lifetime photo opp.
BiddyCavit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:57:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm on the opposite end of that. I'm into photography (mostly nature photography) and I'm OK at it, but everyone thinks I'm a professional because I've got an expensive camera. I can never enjoy anything without people asking me to take photos. My uncle even had me take the photos for his wedding. I did it because I thought it would pay for my drinks for the night, but I didn't get as much as a cent for it "because I'm family".
Plus, photographers don't have a great salary. It's best to hire a professional.
tomdarch ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:03:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm an OK photographer. I could shoot 2,000 exposures (or more) at a wedding and come away with +/- 2 really great shots and a few pretty good ones (though, there is a chance I won't get lucky and get a any great shots). The reason you hire a professional photographer is to get 10 or 20 great shots of that day/evening and a stack of really, really good shots to sort through. Your cousin/neighbor isn't going to get you those consistent results, even if he/she gets lucky once in a while.
WorkingISwear ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:47:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This times 100. When I was shooting weddings 2,000 frames was about my average for a full day, and I'd end up giving the client 500-600 shots total. Of course the posed romantics and family portraits blew away most of the candids, but I wouldn't put out anything that I wouldn't call exemplary of my work.
yurassis21 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:14:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hiring a good photographer was one of my best wedding investments! Not only did I get amazing photos, they were edited professionally and given to me in the best quality! I can literally make a wall-size poster out of each picture.
1LH3 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:56:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ha-ha. If your gf wants her sister to take pictures that bad you should hire a professional anyway (letting the sister take hers too) and then compare after the wedding. Could teach the sister how difficult it is. This is coming from someone who spent as little on my wedding as possible except for the photos which were amazing.
RedSpikeyThing ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:33:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So her own sister won't be in the photos???
petesterama ยท 304 points ยท Posted at 14:41:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sister bought a camera worth a couple of thousand, and runs your typical "photography" Facebook page. Granted, she's come a long way, but those early days man.
I'm a VFX artist, and she would claim I have no idea what I'm talking about, and be super condescending when I'd just be trying to help her understand her camera, and file formats (I was explaining raw vs jpeg). Later, she'd ask me how to add a watermark to her photos in photoshop. Sigh.
magwitch2000 ยท 215 points ยท Posted at 15:48:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Ack. Watermarks. Just because you are now a professional photographer, doesn't mean that you have to put your watermark on photos of your kids that you post on Facebook.
Edited for words
patrickkellyf3 ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 17:55:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
NOTE: YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO REUSE MY IMAGES, THANK YOU :)
Because that's a legally binding statement that totally protects them.
Boukish ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:47:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It does actually help them in the event of copyright infringement, since it removes the credibility of a defense centered around the ignorance of the copyright.
But if someone doesn't fully intend on filing a lawsuit to protect their IP, those kind of warnings are superfluous and a bit amateur hour.
jonassn1 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:10:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But they don't help against facebook.
Boukish ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:19:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well yeah, but given the ToS that you agree to there's no copyright infringement occurring - they have a license.
jonassn1 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:22:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly, but what alot of people don't seems to get is the moment you post pictures you are giving Facebook's the rights to it.
5-4-3-2-1-bang ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:04:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly, this right here is why I never post anything over about 800x600 or so. If FB wants the rights to a shitty 740x600 res version, have at it.
MilesSand ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:23:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It doesn't help prevent facebook from allowing you to post pictures on their site?
I don't even...
jonassn1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:55:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, if you post a picture on facebook you give them all rights to the picture. So they can use it as they wish.
Arancaytar ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:31:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Original content, doughnut steel.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 22:40:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I read a story, that I'm too lazy to find the link to, where a family was in Europe and walked past a genetic counselling conference where there was a giant photo of their child who has down syndrome and the caption basically saying something like 'don't let this happen to you'. The conference organizers had gotten the photo from a free stock photo website who in turn had stolen it from Facebook. Perhaps, the watermark might have deterred that...
sonofaresiii ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:23:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
the worst is seeing typical facebook profile pictures where the subject gives credit to the photographer
like come on man it's just a facebook picture, no one's going to hire you off it
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:46:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This always irritated me about a classmate. She was taking okay-ish photos and watermarking them - huge, in a generic script serif font. Like, I get you don't want your photos stolen, but be real - who's gonna steal your low-res photos of a motorcycle competition when there are thousands of photos out there without a watermark?
BaldingIrish ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 22:04:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Surely that's the point of the watermark...
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:47:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I guess I just played myself.
I was thinking more about the low-res aspect, not the watermark part. But still. Oops.
PhoenixDays ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:59:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm in photography school. My teachers actually hate watermarks.
Eloykwik ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:40:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This was me when I first started. It was weird. I think I was worried someone would steal my shit images. Then I found out at school what metadata was and how to search the web for files with my metadata on it. Bam, watermarks gone and have caught 2 different companies using my stock.
JoeyJoeJoeJrShab ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:02:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
you are aware that facebook strips all the metadata, right?
Eloykwik ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:15:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Surprisingly it does not.
JackofScarlets ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:21:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The worst thing about watermarks is they're pretty easy to remove, so they don't even do the job
JoeyJoeJoeJrShab ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:01:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think watermarks are inherently wrong. Because it's easy with lightroom, I watermark any photos I post to facebook. It's just my name, and it's written about as small as possible while still being readable. If facebook didn't strip exif, I'd have my name there and be done with it.
And, the only reason I started doing this is when photos I took of an event and posted to facebook showed up in the event's publication without my permission. It was a nonprofit that I support, so I'd have let them use my pictures for free, provided I received credit somewhere.
PRiles ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:10:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My brother tags all his photos in the meta data from what I understand. Has allowed him to catch people tying to use his work apparently.
iloveporker ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:06:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Z
ga_to_ca ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:15:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
...what?
reque-tres-piedras ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:26:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
marsist ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:55:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And have it so big it covers up a third of the bottom of the picture
goodnight-everybody ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:55:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I just got my DSLR, and I've heard a lot of good things about shooting in RAW mode. All I know about it is that it supposedly has more channels for colors? Or something to that degree?
Would you mind explaining more to help an aspiring photographer?
petesterama ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 01:40:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Both jpeg and Raw have RGB colour channels. Jpeg stores 8 bits per channel, per pixel. So that's 256 values (0-255). 256 red256 blue256 green equals that 16 million colours you see everywhere. That sounds like a lot, and most screens can only show that many, so you're good to go right?
Weeeell, when you take a picture with your camera, the sensor actually receives a hell of a lot more information than what is saved in a jpeg image. The camera has to process it so that it can be compressed down to 16 million colours.
When you shoot Raw, it saves what the camera sees into 12, or even 14 bits of colour per channel, which ends up being billions, or trillions of colours. It also saves information about the settings you used (ISO, shutter speed, aperture etc), so when you start processing it yourself, you'll just start off at that exposure level. But because you have all that colour information, you can modify the exposure after its been shot, or even bring up shadow detail and bring down the brights individually. Beyond that, you can also apply denoising and remove artifacts with special algorithms that accommodate for you cameras sensor patterns.
Tldr: Raw processing lets you squeeze all that 12/14 bit colour into a range that your 8 bit screen (monitor, tv, phone etc) can display, without losing detail in underexposed and overexposed parts when you shot the image.
goodnight-everybody ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:43:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's awesome! I follow a lot of photography instagrams, and their portraits always look great cause they use the raw channels to up a lot of the shadows and such. I'm definitely going to start shooting in raw now, thank you so much :)
The_BromanEmpire ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:24:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Am I the only one that just thinks I'm shit at everything? In a good way. Even things I'm competent at I still know I suck compared to someone out there.
It's what keeps me improving. I know I'll never be the best in anything so I try to get as close as possible.
Isogen_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:39:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Does she even use Lightroom/Capture One?
petesterama ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:14:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Last time I saw her processing photos, she was bringing Jpegs into photoshop and putting photo filters on. So nah.
Isogen_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:17:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh my... I wonder how much time she wastes by not using Lightroom.
brainiac3397 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:30:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Isnt it better to just add a digital signature via metadata info?(I thinkmits EXIF and IPTC?) At the place I work, I sometimes assist in editing the raw images of the rugs and throw in some crazy stuff into the metadata out of boredom sometimes.
48893 ยท 309 points ยท Posted at 12:57:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
PossiblyNSFW:http://youarenotaphotographer.com/
[deleted] ยท 288 points ยท Posted at 15:01:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 156 points ยท Posted at 19:27:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When you said the site was not built by a web developer, I had a feeling that it would be easy to navigate and would work without me having to check dozens of 3rd party domains on my script blocker. I was right.
mighty_bandersnatch ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:13:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fuck, exactly. I love reading Linux docs online because the old farts writing them just hand-code basic HTML so you can get right to the point. I wish everything was written to work over 56k.
TokyoJokeyo ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:11:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Praise be to he who speaks true!
million-dollar-loan ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:08:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think he meant that the website's creator just used a standard template.
EsQuiteMexican ยท 47 points ยท Posted at 21:23:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There's a reason why we have standard templates. They work. They are clear, browsable and were designed by experts. Right now every website looks like a powerpoint had a child with Facebook's timeline.
PaintItPurple ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 23:44:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
If you install a tool whose sole purpose is to prevent websites from functioning as intended, it doesn't seem very sensible to be upset when some don't function correctly.
[deleted] ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 23:50:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do you really not get why people install blockers?
PaintItPurple ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:19:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I get why people install blocking software. What I don't get is why, when your blocking software's tampering renders a website nonfunctional, you blame the creator of the website (which works) rather than the creator of the blocking software (which broke the page).
I have a friend who works customer support at a store. Some people recently came in very angry that the bed they bought there broke. It was clear from inspecting the bed that adults had been jumping on it. I understand why somebody would want to jump on a bed, but I don't think it's reasonable to blame the manufacturer for the results of your jumping on the bed.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:39:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Your analogy is flawed because "working as intended" means possibly installing malware via a browser exploit. The analogy is also flawed because I'm not complaining to the creator of the page--I'm lamenting the sorry state of the web in general.
A better analogy is that I'm complaining about the fact that I have to have a guard dog and security cameras because my neighborhood has gone down hill.
TokyoJokeyo ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 03:13:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The purpose of the tool is to make the website function as desired by the end user. Often the intended function is terrible. When a web developer intends to make the website the way users desire it to be, people will like it.
PaintItPurple ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:22:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, but OP's complaint is that some pages do not function as desired when running blocking software. My point is, it's not the site creator's fault that you failed to produce a working end-product with your modifications..
TokyoJokeyo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:38:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I would say that sites that are harder to manipulate by the end user are more poorly designed than sites that are easy to manipulate, given the open nature of the web.
Shrinky-Dinks ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:43:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Would you consider installing a tool to keep a Web developer from sticking his dick in your ass even though that was his intended function for his dick?
thepobv ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:27:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe that's just the MVP, he'll this might even be a side project... just because it's bad doesn't mean he's not.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:49:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
CarlosTheBoss ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 13:43:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's not photography in the typical sense though or am I old fashioned?
48893 ยท 50 points ยท Posted at 14:11:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Whether it's the shooting or the editing that's bad, the key thing is that they all claim to be professional photographers, and those are their promo pics.
CarlosTheBoss ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:19:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's not editing photography that photo-shopping or something like that though isn't it?
spidersthrash ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 15:10:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
We call that 'editing'. It's actually "post-processing", but that's part of the editing process.
beartheminus ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:14:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No that's editing. Photoshopping and editing are interchangeable terms. If you are referring to when people simply adjust the contrast or colour etc of a photo that's considered image processing.
CarlosTheBoss ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:21:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
TIL: thanks.
beartheminus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:29:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Np! Always nice to put my Masters to use once in a while haha. While photoshopping and editing are interchangeable, it should be noted that when people use the term Photoshop, its usually meant in a more negative light, and when something is obviously edited and looks fake or out of this world.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:05:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is Photoshopping not editing? Or are those two different things. I've always assumed you could use them interchangeably
cheshirecat79 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:55:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Think of it like this- every photo that comes out of a shoot needs to be "edited". White balance, exposure, noise reduction, etc. You're just changing levels of light and color and trying to enhance or subtract certain details in the shot. You can do this in photoshop but it's not very efficient for multiple photos.
Photoshop really shines when you need to actually change the content within the photo. Replacing content outright, subtracting glaring details or unsightly items, etc. This goes beyond simple editing and is part of a post processing work flow.
Wilcows ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:40:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In light of this. Could somebody here accept my shameless plug and judge my Instagram pictures? @w_soetman.
I don't have a lot on there but I enjoy taking pictures and I was wondering if I could get some feedback.
clamsarepeople2 ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 15:14:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
in my expert opinion these look like some photos alright.
Wilcows ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:54:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you
sarcasticIntrovert ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:25:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not a professional photographer by any means, but they look alright. I'd recommend experimenting with lighting and color a little more, maybe branching out and trying new subjects rather than just nice sports cars and the occasional cityscape. Overall not bad, though--better than a lot of the stuff I take.
Wilcows ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:54:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know a bit of variety won't hurt but I personally just love taking pictures of cars :)
sarcasticIntrovert ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:35:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well there's nothing wrong with that :D The pictures you have are very good.
Wilcows ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:43:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Aww. Thanks
Smouldering_goose ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:13:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd suggest for some of your car photographs try to bump up the vibrancy and saturation just a touch and increase your exposure a little. The compositions arnt bad though, Keep shooting and trying new things :)
Wilcows ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:53:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks. It's hard to get the colors right since its night photography and I'm trying to get to know my DLSR a bit but I'll keep it in mind.
cheshirecat79 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:57:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hey dude, i'd suggest pushing the shadows up on the auto shots. People need to be able to see the detail in the dark areas, especially the wheels and other areas like mouldings, bumpers, etc. I like the content. Keep it up.
DannyVandal ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:48:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Some interesting images there. Just gave you a follow. It'll be nice to see different stuff in my feed.
So- what set up are you using?
Wilcows ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:54:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
An old canon 450D my boss gave me
DannyVandal ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:56:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lovely camera.
Mottwally ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:26:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Welp, There goes the rest of my day....
agnisflugen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:43:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
i rather liked the car face..guesss i have terrible taste :/
oldnyoung ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:41:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is great. I lost it at the facial vortex
PhoenixDays ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:57:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As someone who is actually trying to become a photographer, thank you for this.
iwantsometea ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:59:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wento the page and seriously got scared. NSFL
Arjay_Dee ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:29:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well... That's made me feel better about my photography skills.
[deleted] ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 13:01:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
NSFW
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 13:25:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Trippy man
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:49:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
48893 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:40:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Let's hope that the people who paid for them think so too.
arcnspuds ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:13:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
http://youarenotawebdesigner.com/
[deleted] ยท 137 points ยท Posted at 15:38:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I only take pictures for my own enjoyment. Mostly just nature shots. I realize that I'm not good but I just enjoy experimenting and looking for cool places and things to take pictures of.
CunnedStunt ยท 81 points ยท Posted at 15:49:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Get any good pictures while you were in Russia? Or were you to busy drinking with the mafia?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:09:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not sure what you're getting at...
Butter_my_waffles ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 16:30:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
He's referencing a famous story by comedian Bert Kreischer called "The Machine." It's on YouTube and definitely worth the watch.
Darksyder12 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:35:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
THE MACHINE
CunnedStunt ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:12:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As the others said it's a story by a comedian and worth the watch. I just assumed your name was referencing it.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:11:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh no, I've never heard of him. My username has a really dumb story behind it with my high school friends.
greywar777 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:18:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That makes this even more hilarious. Seriously, go watch the video.
Lord_of_the_Trees ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:23:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Gonna assume that's accurate, not check to be sure, and forget about it.
CunnedStunt ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:25:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Again, but in English this time.
drseusskid ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:58:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
YOU ARE THE MACHINE!
Suppa_K ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:59:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
MACHINE
Lord_Luckman_42 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:01:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If anyone doesn't get it, Google "Bert Kreischer - The Machine"
squirrelforbreakfast ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:40:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Robbing the trains, man.
SuddenlyFameous ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:04:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Excellent reference
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:30:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like I'm missing something good here...
CunnedStunt ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:19:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You are. YouTube "the machine".
beenusse ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:31:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The issue with these people is that they're claiming to be professionals and demanding payment for their work.
That immediately raises the bar way higher than for an amateur photographer. Things that will net you "good job!" as an amateur will net you endless laughter if you claim to be a professional.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:00:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah of course, that's something entirely different. It's dishonest and delusional to claim to be a professional without any sort of qualifications or expertise. Personally I'm way too self conscious of the pictures I do take to do something like that. I'd never take pictures for other people for money.
Babyelephantstampy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:02:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I thank you for that, being the daughter of a professional photographer. My dad's taken a big hit, even in his niche (still photography for film/TV) because people claim to be professionals and will charge a fraction of what my dad will.
I've been taking photographs for my enjoyment ever since I was a kid, I shit you not, with my dad's guidance. And even then, I'd never dare charge anyone for taking pictures of them, and I won't do the work a professional should be doing.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:01:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd say that would apply to all types of art.
vi0lent ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:54:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's pretty much where I'm at right now. Taking pictures of landscapes is easier for me to slowly learn how to use my camera.
MrReverman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:46:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
so I hear you are the machine
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:50:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is me as well.
Lakanooky ยท 196 points ยท Posted at 16:13:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For over 20 years I owned a thriving portrait studio. Many degrees and awards at the local, state, and national level from professional trade organizations. I now work at a bank because of this. Soccer mom's with cameras killed my business with shitty images converted to black as white. Sigh.
afdlips ยท 141 points ยท Posted at 18:05:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not to be rude, but did you even try to adapt to the changing market? Perhaps explore a new niche? Portrait studios are a thing of the past. I know because I have one and spend almost 100% of my shoots on location. Sure we use our cyc wall all the time but it's mostly for product photos. I built it to do portrait work.
CloudEnt ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 22:19:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Portrait photographer here. I'm closing my studio because I've shot there three times in the last year. Everything happens on location now.
akesh45 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:57:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Save on rent!
APartyInMyPants ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:17:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think portrait studios were a dinosaur of the film era. You can't control clouds passing over the sun, but you can control the lights in your studio and you know your shots will always look the same.
Digital now enables you to look at the photo right way, realize your F-Stop, shutter speed or focal length isn't right and you can correct on-the-fly.
akesh45 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:06:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The portrait studio is useful for banging out family and kid photos fast along with professional shoots for models.
Pros don't really have this problem as much. If we're not sure we usually just vary our settings in burst mode.
Lakanooky ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:30:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I did try. But it just wasn't to be. The style of work I did was not in demand any longer. It is what it is. But it has taken its toll on the trade organizations, not only in numbers of members, but in quality of work produced. I still get certain publications and the images they use to showcase the best the craft has to offer have greatly declined in quality over the years. The public just doesn't recognize the craftsmanship of a quality portrait photographer any more.
akesh45 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:02:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd image demand is higher than ever now with facebook and linkedin.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:09:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think it's a problem with photography in general. Modern consumer camera's surpass the quality of older professional cameras. People don't see much of a difference between using their camera and having a professional do it - and I tend to agree with them.
The one thing professionals have that I/amatuers don't, is the ability to know how a picture is going to turn out before they take it. This is extremely valuable at one time, important events - like weddings. Just trying to get some photos of your kids, take them out back and take pictures until you get one that's good enough.
To your point, there are niches still - but when the whole market is downsizing, it's just not worth some people to try to keep a dying business a float.
akesh45 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 05:01:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The amateurs aren't killing the photography field at all. The big money has always been in events, commercial shoots, school shoots, family photos, etc.
However Photojournalism went down with newspapers, internet stock photography is easier than ever, magazines has less budgets, and it's easier than ever to enter(no dark room, tutorials everywhere).
Wedding guys are still making bank and I don't see that changing...although momtographers who nab a big client via connections definitely hurt bit by bit.
Lakanooky ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:47:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The niche businesses, wedding photographers, and photographers who take a fashion aproach to portraiture I feel are the ones who are survivng, but they are working a lot harder for a whole lot less than they used to. There are still some great ones out there, but a lot less than the we're 15 years ago.
stovinchilton ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:27:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
the we are? I think you meant "there were"
Lakanooky ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:23:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ya, I have fat fingers, been popping Valium for 3 days, and have zero fucks to give.
roughtimes ยท 40 points ยท Posted at 17:37:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not to sound like a jerk or anything, but if you got taken out of business by a couple soccer moms with new cameras, then how much of an edge did you really have on them?
Sure everything is subjective and all, it just seems that in the photography world most photographers seem to think they are on some kind of higher plane than every one else, sorry, didn't mean to direct this at you specifically, just something i noticed.
A_Game_of_Scones ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 17:43:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because those asshole soccer moms guilt trip family and friends into "hiring" them instead if real photographers
copiouscuddles ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:51:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nice username /u/A_Game_of_Scones . makes me think of the official Game of Thrones cookbook I have, haha.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:25:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Remind me never to eat any of your meat pies...
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:14:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Tastes like Frey
roughtimes ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:04:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everything is subjective, if the client is happy with the results, its a win win.
amazondrone ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:25:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You forgot about the "real photographer". It's a win (for the client), win (for the "soccer mom"), lose (for the "real photographer").
roughtimes ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 21:03:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The only person to blame if your're losing out on work for whatever reason due to competition regardless of the industry you work in, is yourself.
You can't blame others for a failing business in a dying industry. The only thing you can do is adapt , improve and overcome.
amazondrone ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 21:17:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't disagree, but the scenario you describe is still a "lose" for the photographer, because they "lose" clients. What happens next (whether the photograph adapts to the changing market) is immaterial to my (rather small, jovial and immaterial) point.
akesh45 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:09:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Usually the client ain't happy....the soccer mom jobs I've seen have either been really good(they are pros) or super shitty.
akesh45 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:08:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I agree as a former pro, however it's easier than ever for some momtographers to get better and eventual become pro thus saturating the market. Also, alot of photographers are freelance so losing a gig here or there can add up to alot of lost business over the years plus the word of mouth.
roughtimes ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:49:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No question about that.
Think of all the stable hands who lost their jobs when cars started getting popular.
Lakanooky ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:39:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No worries. But it used to be an investment to be a quality portrait photographer and run it as a business. I spent many years honing my craft, investing in education, equipment, material, practice, etc. Now for a few hundred bucks, anyone can shoot as much as they want, edit down to a few acceptable images, preso some buttons to mask flaws in an image and convince someone it is good. It's the equivalent of a machine that could create gourmet meals in a $20 microwave with $1 worth of cost and opening a restaurant next door to a fine dining establishment and charging $6 to their customers. It would put the chef who studied his art for years right out of business.
roughtimes ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:32:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Advancement of technology is an age old problem.
plazzman ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 17:59:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"We've decided instead my uncle will shoot our wedding. He just got one of those fancy new DSL cameras, and we can pay him in drinks. Sorry"
romancity3 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:40:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
cue the violins
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:43:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Whenever I attend a wedding, the paid photographers always have to put up with a bunch of dummies shooting photos above their shoulders. I feel really bad for the actual pros who have to put up with this shit.
surrogateuterus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:04:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My college degree and time spent learning darkroom photography instead of the business of owning a photography business is now used to navigate photoshop and take nice pictures of my kids. :/
I just dont have the business sense to get my work the recognition it deserves.
Datduckdo ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:47:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Now I feel bad
KevinTwitch ยท 56 points ยท Posted at 15:16:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
As a professional video editor and videographer I can relate to this. What's worse is that I gotta hear about how they are really a filmmaker...no you're not. You shot 1 wedding and a shitty music video for a shitty band.
thedoormanmusic32 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:55:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is why I tell people I'm an aspiring Video Editor/Videographer and not an Amateur. Amateur has some connotations of experience or education to some people. Aspiring is a pretty catch all for "I want to do this one day and am very much still learning".
Edit: It also sounds a lot less pretentious.
KevinTwitch ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:06:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
it's the pretentious part that gets me... if a grounded wide eyed person comes up and says they shoot and edit videos and want to pick my brain and get some tips then that means more to me than some pretentious prick that is trying to come off as some amazing artist. And shit...some people that have made 3 videos or whatever do pull off some amazing stuff.
I dunno... I don't make anything artsy. My full time gig is making on-air promos for a group of networks. "Tonight... Vin Diesel...The Rock... bang boom pow... Fast and Furious 20...tonight at 8" - It's not some high minded award winning stuff...and I actually love helping people and younger folks learn the craft so I'm not like guarded and protective of the title or anything.... I dunno...I'm rambling and it's snowing so I'm just sitting on reddit.
But yea....pretentious people fucking suck. Fuck them.
thedoormanmusic32 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:15:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, if you wanna shoot me a PM with any and all advice you can spare...it'd be greatly appreciated...
Vihul ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:22:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not to be mean, but sending examples of your work to them might help them find flaws in your rather than just general advice.
thedoormanmusic32 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:39:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh no I understand completely. I am on mobile at work so I do not have access to my extremely meager portfolio at the moment.
disgustipated ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:31:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No shit. I'm a cameraman, and (used to be) a damn good one. I've shot nature, pro sports, auto racing... I have a thorough understanding of the craft, how to lead shots, riding the iris when moving across varied lighting, etc...
But I'm not the guy you want writing the story boards or on the editing station, unless the shots are already laid out and we're only doing dissolves or cuts, nothing special. I can accept that. Give me a good camera and tell me what you want shot-wise, I'm your man. Ask me to produce a video soup-to-nuts, and you'll get a Facebook special.
iamyourcheese ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:47:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a fellow filmmaker, I can totally relate. While I focus more on narrative, I also have done quite a bit of event videography and it drives me nuts when a photographer decides that because they can take photos, they can shoot quality video. No
KevinTwitch ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:51:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well most photographers I know take great video... the problem is they dont know what the fuck to do with it. There's now the time where you have to tell a story with all these clips.
The video world is weird... you're a filmmaker...I can't really do that. I've done some comedic sketches and narrative stuff but I sort of BS my way through it. But, as a on-air promotions producer I can watch a movie and make a badass promo for it. Or shoot and edit an awesome highlight reel... but some filmmakers couldn't do that. Yes they are all "video" but the skills necessary for films, weddings, trailers, whatever is alot of different things... writing, graphics, color grading, set design whatever. I just hate people that think they can do anything video related because they've dabbled a bit and have a DSLR.
Parabolic_Ballsack ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:38:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I just commented a similar response because I didn't see yours. I absolutely agree. There is so much that goes into it: time, equipment, skill. People wonder why it's so expensive and then find a film student or someone on Craigslist to do it for them and, surprise, it turns out shitty. What's worse is when they don't admit it's shitty and they fucked up.
Also: Just fix it in post :/
torbray ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:49:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hey, got a question man if you're willing. I've ran a gaming YouTube channel for a few years and I've reached a point where I can't self-teach myself as well. What resources did you use to improve your video-editing skills to professional levels?
KevinTwitch ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:42:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know very little about editing video game footage but in my head it'd seem like it'd be somewhat limiting and get repetitive. If you want to learn new skills then you have to approach the same thing from a different angle. If you typically do hyper active techno Edm type stuff that's fast and frantic then try different musical styles like orchestral...you'll be forced to edit in a different way. I know a lot of movie promo editors for networks that get stuck into hyper cutting everything and when they get a slower movie to handle they have trouble. So forcing yourself to approach things differently could open a whole new world and style for you.
akesh45 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 05:13:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Learn some adobe after effect...take it to the next level.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:26:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
BarelyLegalAlien ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:07:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah fuck ambition
IrrelevantLeprechaun ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 17:05:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Aka pro photographers who are salty that amateur photographers are undercutting them and the clients can't tell the difference.
People are hiring amateurs for low prices and they still like the photos they get, so what does it matter?
leanik ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:43:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously. I've seen pictures from professionals that I thought were terrible. Some friends got their engagement photos done professionally and literally every shot has some out of blurred plant in the foreground with the couple in the background... that shit is so distracting...
At my own wedding I hired a photography student who was trying to build their portfolio, but I had one of my bridesmaids and another friend bring their DSLRs as well. Spray and pray method all the way with my wedding photography. I'll tell you some of my favorites came from my friends. Not that the pro did a bad job, but my friends were able to try somethings artistically that I really liked.
IrrelevantLeprechaun ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 22:12:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For real. Professionals go on and on about "oh the ISO this, the shutter speed that, depth of field," when all people are really looking for is a half decent photo with better resolution than a phone. No one really cares if it's professional or not.
Being a professional photographer is really only useful if you're doing landscape stuff or photography for modelling. Beyond that an amateur does the job just fine.
leanik ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:58:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I see the merit in knowing technical specs. The ability to manipulate what the camera does to get a certain look can go along way, but as a professional you need to be competitive and get what the customer wants. If a professional can get a better picture (and depending on the situation I bet they can) that's great. However, I think your going to run in to diminishing returns when you consider price and quality.
I've actually shot a wedding in an amateur capacity with another amateur. I got better shots because I was manipulating specs and the other one shot on auto. Arguably our candid shots were comparable but my portraits were way better.
I could see the pros arguments about amateurs. The internet is a treasure trove of information about what a fancy camera can do. If anyone want to be a professional the information exists to be more than an amateur, but a lot of people like takin' the easy route... but I've ranted long enough.
akesh45 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:39:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
With Weddings? Occasionally there is an amazing amateur or retired/ex pro who takes some awesome shots......usually it's garbage quality since shooting events is something few amateurs have done. Hell, even pros I know can falter alot if they never shot events.
Majority of amateur wedding and event photos are laughbly bad when you sit them side by side with a pro.
If the bride and groom were the type to read alot of bridal literature/magazines, they probaly regret it but didn't say anything to be nice. Every single time they view thier friend's wedding photos and think back to thier own....they'll know.
For example, compare your shots to these: https://www.preownedweddingdresses.com/blog/plan-like-a-pro-angie-strange-posh-floral-designs ....I highly doubt they couldn't tell the difference in quality.
leanik ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:03:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have a feeling you have completely misunderstood the point of my argument. I was talking up the technical knowledge a pro likely has. Having done semi professional photography (yearbook) in the past, I was excited to relearn the technical aspects and I think that improved my shots over the auto-setting amateur.
Also, I take it you be never been to a poor person's wedding. Not everyone had money for photography let alone lots of money for photography. Their plan was to have a friend borrow another friend's camera. I highly doubt they were really had a large expectations for the photography at their wedding. It was an after thought. So, I doubt they were just being nice when the other option was no pictures at all.
Which brings me to a second point. It sounds like you're getting salty over the fact pros are getting pushed out by amateurs when pros are pushing themselves out by being too expensive for many people to afford.
akesh45 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 08:18:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Generally a pro will be willing to work out a deal on finances or features.
The biggest risk aside from quality is that an amateur might have equipment fail, show up late, or even miss key moments. They might be able to live with the quality but not "no pictures because they're only memory card failed".
I don't even do family portraits or weddings so I have zero to be salty about....but amateurs volunteering to shoot weddings is sketchy to most photographers since it's among the hardest to shoot well. There is no second take and if you do screw up your liable to be sued. Bridezillas are just as bad as they say....I can't imagine a cheap one.
I wonder if the caterers, priest, Venue, and DJ got paid? I can understand cheaping out it's one of those $1000 weddings in their grandpa's backyard or bar. For somebody spending $5k-10k+ though, wedding photography is not something to be cheaped out on....heck...even for cheapo weddings I'd say at least drop $1000 on one to swing by for 1-3 hours. He'll help everybody forget it's a cheap wedding.
akesh45 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 05:31:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I would seriously not take this person's advice....most of the people complaining are talking about casual stuff like senior photo gigs(easy cash, occurs yearly) they lost out to momtographers.
Hiring amateurs for weddings is something I would rarely recommend unless you are broke. Stuff like "sorry I missed the ring ceremony, battery died!" or "geez, who knew it would be so dark in here" are the difference between a pro and a really talented amateur who shoots well. If we're talking a newbie friend who just bought an amazon off craigslist.....well...who needs good pictures of a wedding...it's the memories that count!
colorblind_goofball ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:50:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
People don't like competition.
ingridelena ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:54:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think they have every right to be a bit salty about that, however, I don't think they're losing as much money as they think. Most of those cheapos prob wouldnt have been their clients anyways.
melonfarmer123 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:23:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. So much saltiness and condescending attitudes towards amateur photographers in this thread.
mfball ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:35:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is basically what it boils down to. I obviously understand how it would be super frustrating for professionals because most of them have probably spent tons of time learning and honing their craft, only to have a bunch of people who know literally nothing about photography swoop in and suck up all their business, but their skills only have as much value as other people are willing to recognize. If clients can't appreciate the difference between a pro and an amateur, it's the job of the pro to convince them that there is a difference, and that it's worth paying more for that difference.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:51:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because the pictures are bad, and the average person has no taste for what makes a good photo. Especially when it comes to post processing.
IrrelevantLeprechaun ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 18:39:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If the average person "has no taste" for what a good photo is, then why bother trying to master the "good photo" if no one is going to notice the difference? That's why amateurs are so good at undercutting pros; most people don't have the trained eye for "good" photography.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:45:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Why learn how to paint if most people know next to nothing about painting and what makes a good one? Because you enjoy it and take pride in it. Same as any art.
leanik ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:44:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, but based on that argument it's kind of silly for "professional" painters to bitch about what "amateur" painters do.
IrrelevantLeprechaun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:50:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well if you look at modern painting, most of them couldn't paint an egg. But the standard of painting has become so convoluted that no one knows what painting is anymore, so you have people painting a canvas red and selling for a million dollars and people flock to it because they're told that they should.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:05:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The technical aspects of painting are separate from its value as art, and while you can't easily be objective about its value as art you can definitely critique the technique involved.
For a music analogy, you can always be objective about how skilled a musician is, but it's harder to judge the value of their music. And then some songs just say nothing about the skill of the artist involved, just because there's little there to judge. Like the blank canvas paintings, they could be amazing painters, but I wouldn't judge them as a painter based on an experimental painting.
The nice thing about judging art -- it's as cool as you want it to be. If you think a blank canvas says something interesting then that's great, but you can be justified in thinking its a little lame too.
open_door_policy ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:50:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The short answer is memorability.
Anyone can create a photo. Hell, anyone can create a highly memorable photo. But when you get someone who has spent thousands of hours analyzing what makes a photo stand out, capture a moment, and just make everyone looking at it pause for a few seconds; instead of having one memorable photo, you'll have a collage of them.
You can get someone crappy to shoot your wedding for cheap, and you'll get a lot of technically correct photos. Or you can spend a few thousand, and a lot of your own time, to get a photo album that you will pull out on a regular basis when you want a reminder of why no one has been suffocated in their sleep, yet.
random989898 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:40:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
But they aren't all bad. I think the idea that the only good picture is one taken by a professional photographer is ridiculous, and the only person who gets to decide if a picture is good is a professional photographer is ridiculous. DSLRs have made it much,much easier for people to take better pictures and even really, really good pictures.
My sister in law is not a photographer, she is your every day soccer mom. She has some feature on her DSLR that takes constant shots - so she points the camera at the kid and the camera takes 100 shots in a couple minutes. More often than not out of that batch there is one really good action shot. It doesn't need any extra post processing - it looks great.
I have seen many amateur photographers take fantastic pictures. Just because they aren't professional doesn't mean they don't have an eye for composition or that they haven't done a lot of research about lighting and framing etc.
If I can pay x to get pictures that to me are fantastic and exactly what I want, why would I pay 10 times more for professional pictures.
I have a friend who does incredible landscape photography. He loves it, does it as a hobby and is really good at it, and sells his prints for big money. His pictures are amazing but they take him hours of work so his prices are only for a certain demographic. To say his pics aren't good because he isn't a pro makes no sense.
BorisBC ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:58:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You're sister in law is what they are salty about. Although they really should blame the technology not the person. These days you can get a camera that will do a good pic easily. And a great pic with a bit of practice. Compare that to someone who's gone to school for or spent 30 years in the biz and you can see why they'd be salty.
I did the same thing when I got a dslr, although I ended up selling it and just use my phone. If you can compose stuff OK you can do alright. Besides I got sick of viewing everything as a photo shoot! Lol
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:56:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Like you pointed out, it's just different demographics, your going to get what you pay for. If that's the pictures you want then awesome, but I wouldn't say they're guaranteed to be good. I'd argue that objectively, most shots taken by people that don't even really grasp what their camera's doing are going to be bad.
What I see a lot of, among the Instagram 'pseudo-professional' crowd (keep in mind there's amazing photographers on Instagram too) and especially on the post processing subreddit (I can't get a link because I'm on mobile sorry) is unnecessary light room color correction just for the sake of it. Especially just clicking the first light room setting that looks good, and not really understanding what you're trying to accomplish by changing color. It's kind of like overly compressed music, it sounds (looks) 'better' but it also feels like you lose something. It looks immediately overdone instead of subtle. Your processing should aim to be unnoticed, but that's just my opinion.
Many of the edits on the post processing subreddit would look far better if they just blended it back in with the original photo at 50%, or even less.
And that's just post processing, which I know much more about then actual photography. I'm not a pro photographer, but I can definitely tell when a photo was taken by a really good one.
random989898 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:02:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But just because there are some that are bad doesn't mean there are none that are good. saying that the only good picture is one taken by a professional photographer is kind of ridiculous. By what measure? If someone else thinks it is an incredible picture and they want to pay money for it, why do you need to say - no, it can't be good because it wasn't taken by a professional photographer. The reason professional photographers are losing business is because of this attitude that they are the only ones that can take a subjectively deemed "good" picture.
You should see some of the photos that win in amateur photo competitions - to call those all bad because of the person taking them isn't professional doesn't make sense. Someone who is an amateur can have a really good knowledge of their camera, of composition, of lighting, and have everything come together on a good day to get a great shot.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:14:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You can get a good picture certainly but it's kinda like throwing darts at a board and just waiting for it to hit. Anyone with modern day cameras and computers could eventually take a great photo given enough time. But taking a great photo on command is what you need a photographer for, one would think. And there will always be a demand for photos shot with older technology like film, which does take skill, just like there's demand for old compressors and stuff that were used on older records.
Freak4Dell ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:18:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. A huge part of hiring a professional is that you mitigate your risk of missing a critical shot. This isn't terribly important for situations where the shots are posed. If the shot is bad, you can redo it. But in situations where you only have one chance at some shots, like a wedding, there's just no way I'm giving the job to anybody but a pro.
akesh45 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:22:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is a misnomer. Usually it's casual shit like senior grad photos or some baby photos. Back in the day this used to be the $$$$ safe fall back gig for some photographers or thier main income.
I think it's more so many rather just keep the money and settle for potato quality.
Clients definitely can tell the difference....especially with weddings....
ByCromsBalls ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:39:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In a similar vein I do motion graphics design and I very frequently have people balk at my rate even though I have a good 10 years of pro experience. How hard can a logo design and animation be?? They almost always come back after trying to get their cousin who did some tutorials or a guy online or something and I always turn them down. I already know they don't value my work and they're gonna be the worst kind of client. About anybody can do it with the software and time but making it look professional is a much different ball game.
I_love_this_cunt-try ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 16:59:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't like to take pictures at all. But the snooty shit storm that comes up when this comment gets posted always cracks me up. Not that I disagree with you, but people come out of the woodworks to "stake their claim" in the other photographers are shitty and I'm not debate. It almost comes off as people trying to convince themselves that they don't actually fall into that category.
cheshirecat79 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:35:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The vitriol between photographers is immense. It's really rare to find someone who's willing to give you feedback or critique your photos in a way that doesn't revolve around their creative vision being somehow superior.
If people are hiring happy go lucky soccer moms with subpar talent rather than a twenty year old vet, I think it would be wise to consider that maybe clients actually would rather deal with someone they like and get less quality in the actual product than deal with someone they don't like or someone who makes them uncomfortable.
Photography used to be about knowing how to take a picture. That's simply not good enough anymore. You have to market yourself as a personality that people will gravitate towards as well.
metal_monkey80 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:50:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This holds true even for people who have gone through a photography program in college. It's amazing. 4 Years studying and you can't set your exposure properly? Nothing on photographers but for every 1 amazing photographer, there are 50 who take B&W pictures of their feet at the beach.
_PM_ME_YOUR_NIPPLES ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 12:52:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So. Much. This.
The number of times I've had people tell me to check out their portfolios online, only to find poorly composed pictures that have been sepia'd or hyper-vibranced is disturbing.
amexicanbear ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 13:08:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'll admit, a few years ago I did fall victim to the trend. It lasted about a month, then I realized I really didn't need "fancy" photos of my dogs playing in the yard and woods.
I'm not even in the business, and it irks me. Can't imagine your headache though of actually going through those kinds of portfolios.
theavatare ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:00:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I dont have a sepia problem but i do have an hdr issue. Is to the point i sometimes force myself to not auto bracket do i do something else.
cokethenwpepsi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:30:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everybody with a camera goes through the HDR phase at some point. It's really refreshing when you finally get out of that habit.
dontslumber ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 16:42:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Actual photographer here! This annoys the shit out of me. There are so many people out there getting work and having literally 0 talent. They steal potential clients and business when I'm trying to make a decent living. Then their client posts their shitty ass photo on Facebook then instantly degrades their business look. When they could hire proper photographers to do their work properly. not some friend of theirs on Facebook that happened to buy an expensive DSLR and having no post processing skills at all.
Rant over.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 17:27:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's really more proof that "making it" in photography is 10% knowing how to use a camera and 90% marketing yourself.
iamsuperflush ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:51:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
More like 5% knowing how to use a camera, 15% knowing how to take a good picture, and 80% marketing. But that's only for commercial photography.
caseymac ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:22:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Actual photographer here, as well. This is the nature of any industry. Things change. These people aren't stealing from you. They're providing a lesser value for less money. If you provide quality photos and quality isn't your client's top concern, start marketing to those who care about quality. There's more money in photography now than ever. There are so many outlets and methods for getting paid - you just have to get a little creative.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:45:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I understand but with any business, you are selling yourself more than your product. Work on selling "You", not necessarily your work.
HawkinsonB ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:09:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A wise successful photographer on the west coast once told me this:
Some of the most successful photographers he's seen have been some of he worst ones. But they know how to market themselves. I'm great at taking pictures but I wish I spent more time getting my name out there. It's 75% pictures and 25% marketing for me. When I started I should've been 25% pictures 75% marketing.
Veraclash ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:20:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The iPhone killed professional photographers. I was a portrait photographer working in a studio for 13 years. I could get 20 amazing different looking photos of your baby before they knew what was happening. Now someone will take 200 photos on their phone and get 2 good ones where the light isn't terrible and maybe the baby is looking somewhat into the camera. I left the business because the company I worked for was going under. I also couldn't stand people who showed up an hour late for their appointment and use the excuse that they have a child so they can run late.
random989898 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:45:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Or maybe they take 200 pictures and actually get a bunch that are just as good as yours were. People realized with SLRs that they could get really good pictures that looked the same as what they were getting in photo studios - they just had to take a lot more to do so. If no one but professional photographers could take a decent picture - people would still be going to studios and hiring photographers just like they did before SLRs came out
0OOOOOO0 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:48:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Before SLRs came out? I think you mean before digital cameras, unless we're talking a hundred years ago
iamsuperflush ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:52:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Shows how much they actually know about photography.
akesh45 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:18:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Commercial clients, weddings, and professionals do...I'm guessing your average broke family ain't dropping $500 on baby photos or family group photos like they used to because they rather have the money IMO.
They're usually pretty horrid....for anything remotely critical, you gotta have a pro.
IdentifiesBoringPuns ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:25:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's a no-talent profession. Get off your high horse.
All you need is [first name] [middle name] Photography.com and you are a professional photographer. And Facebook, of course.
mothbitten ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:24:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cool! Since it is no talent, take your phone and produce pictures like hers: http://www.ljhollowayphotography.com/ I will wait 5 minutes. If you can't, then you are full of shit.
infosecstoner ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:47:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't see why people think that photography and photo editing are so hard. There is so little that goes into taking a photo compared to almost any other profession.
Pardonme23 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:39:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But tell us how you really feel
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:09:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Check out /r/shittyhdr
sir_snufflepants ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:27:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Why?
If it looks beautiful and has some aesthetic quality, why isn't it art?
JPFxBaMBadEE ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:46:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This thread has really made me wonder whether I take good photos or not..
cheshirecat79 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:38:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do you like them? Do you enjoy taking them? That's the only thing that matters. Photograph for you. If other people like your work, good for them. If not, who cares. As long as you enjoy it, you're good.
JPFxBaMBadEE ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:47:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I do really enjoy taking pictures and always have fun doing it but for some reason I've never thought about it like that, and I'm always hoping to get a certain amount of likes or recognition. Thanks for that perspective
firerosearien ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:48:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yup.
I've gotten a lot of compliments for some of my photos, but I know I'm strictly an amateur. I take photos for myself, and I'll do it if others request, but I'll never ask for compensation I could probably edit my photos more, pretty much - I'm told that I'm great at composition, but editing is where I need more practice - but I'm kinda lay, TBH.
But at least I know that about myself, and don't pretend to be something I'm not.
ReluctantHistorian ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:53:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When we were getting married, my wife and I started looking for a photographer. Every person recommended to us just was not very good. I finally talked to a friend who was finishing a PhD. He's a photojournalist, was a war corrospondent, and even had been nominated for a Pulitzer. He did give us a discount, but would have still been cheaper without one than most of the "professionals" we had been directed to. The quality of his work was so far above the others I'd seen that no family member complained about the cost (or about us not using their friend) afterwards.
cheshirecat79 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:40:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
People tend to recommend photographers that they like as a person first. As long as the work is passable, they'll refer them out. It gets a little more difficult to find a photographer when you're looking for a particular skill level or style.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:58:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Every teenage girl
bag_of_sandwiches ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:17:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
r/unlimitedbreadsticks
patrickkellyf3 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:54:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not going to think I'm a professional, but some simple shit we're gonna post on Facebook, I always tell my mom to just hand me the camera because I know I do a dcent job.
MagicMistoffelees ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:08:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have a bridge camera and I enjoy taking photos when traveling. The camera has taken some decent photos. I was given a book by a well meaning relative so that I could become professional. I have no intention of doing so, the book was helpful but I know I don't have a particularly good eye for shots and the good shots are pure luck and a decent camera.
VictusFrey ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:09:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think this is the biggest one. I mean, how hard can finding a good shot and clicking a button be?
SteroidSandwich ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:26:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Oh, that is so lame every girl who can aim a camera thinks she is a photographer. Oooh, you took a black and white picture of a lawn chair and it's shadow and developed it at Sav-On. You must be so brooding and deep."
alritealritealrite ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:28:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You know what's worse than that? Actual photographers who think they're better than everyone.
CrashEddie ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:49:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Definitely. I will admit I'm another person who has considered going into it. I'm definitely not bad, I've had a lot of people tell me I should go into it (including more critical friends) - but I know I'm nowhere near being as good as I'd want to be to do it.
But people will compliment easily. And if you're good enough to be able to get great photos of certain things (for me, pets) then people assume you're good at all aspects of photography. And they also don't realise that it's a lot harder if you've got to do it all in an hour or 2.
I find mass post-processing to be the hardest part, personally. Never figured it out.
disposable_me_0001 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:00:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography must be easy because half my friends call themselves photographers. All you need to do is drop a few thousand on equipment, and bam. DSLRs make it even easier since there's no cost to fucking up a picture, just retake until you get the desired effect.
I myself have been using photoshop to turn shitty cameras into better ones with lots and lots of compositing and manipulation.
FictionalWriter ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:07:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you like photography as a hobby that's great! But because you spent a couple hundred on camera and can slap a filter in the photo does not make you a prefessional. Most of those stay at home mom photographers are usually so flaky and unprofessional about when your photos will be ready and they usually are crap. I print enough of them at work. If I have to explain resolution to you then you are not a "professional".
macleod185 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:10:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yup. Takes YEARS to develop professional photo skills.
Vihul ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:18:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As someone trying to learn photography, I'm always trying to experiment with what amount of editing is good, and what amount of editing is bad. I feel like this and composition of images are the hardest parts of photography.
signifi_cunt ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:50:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This makes me so self conscious as a young person trying to break into photography. I understand my limitations and where I need to keep working, but also I have been hired by a college and a museum, as well as for weddings, birthday parties, concerts and a few other gigs. I'm really trying to stay humble because I don't want to be this type of ~ fauxtographer ~ - but at what point does one know that they do have talent?
For example, there is a certain point where putting a watermark on is important for getting a name out there and isn't just superfluous.
Noblese ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:04:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You mean adding a watermark logo to my prints doesn't make me legit?
MagnusTheGreat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:31:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most people can take decent pictures. But about 80% of the job is editing and figuring out what pictures are the best. And what to edit.
Even shitty photographers can sell their stuff if they can edit it properly.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:38:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You unleashed a wave of snobs and pretentiousness by mentioning photography. This thread is lousy with complainers.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:50:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's so hard to find a real professional photographer right now because everyone thinks they are one.
TrollManGoblin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:01:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You won't become a good photographer by sitting on your ass thinking about how you're not a good photographer yet.
garishbourne ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:01:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It does if it's conceptual enough.
P_Ferdinand ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:07:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Little difference though. A photo is a photo. As long as you hold it right and can take good shots, then you don't need to know much. I've never really seen much greatness in professional photographer material.
leafjerky ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:12:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I knew this would be up top. Facebook photography is killing me. On that note I wouldn't mind learning how to take better photos with a canon.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:34:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be honest, I have a hard time telling the difference between a professional picture and something a friend took with their SLR.
LeKa34 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:49:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
/r/delusionalartists has some great posts about this.
Personal favourite: https://www.reddit.com/r/delusionalartists/comments/2rbi3w/a_guy_i_went_to_school_with_set_up_a_facebook/
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:50:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I fucking love this post, and by extension you. Came here to say this. Keep doing the good work
iDooperman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:12:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I do a bit of photography but definitely not professionally, I just like taking photos. I see people think it's easy to start and think they can hit the ground running just because they have a DSLR. Actual photographers have an amazing attention to detail and a very creative mind. It is an extremely creative profession and I highly respect people who can do it properly as their job and their passion.
FarSightXR-20 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:27:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I have two friends that are outstanding at photography and then I just have one friend that is super loaded and has an expensive camera and made an fb page because he thinks he's a good photographer. He even does wedding photos, but his pictures suck.
gayscout ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:43:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I go to a technical school that has a pretty decent photography program. I'm not a photography major, but it still bothers me when people treat it like any amateur can pick up photography and produce professional grade photos. I've seen these people walk around bragging about their photos to photography majors who are paying $40k/year to learn how to actually be professionals. I just feel like that would be degrading.
PatSue-Chan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:08:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
God I LOVE taking photos and have a ton of equipment and I'm not too bad at photoshop BUT it's not something I claim to do professionally. I just enjoy it and it frustrates me so much that people (especially my parents) keep telling me that I should be a professional, but for me that takes the joy out of it and I know I most definitely do not have the current skill for that. I shoot what I want to shoot when I want to, no deadlines or what have you. I mean occasionally I've done cheap headshots for people I know but that's also because money is tight. I know that if I were to ever do it professionally I'd need to learn a whole hell of a lot more, especially with the editing process and lighting techniques. The ability to own a camera does not automatically qualify you a photographer the same as owning a car does not make you a race car driver.
IAMACat_askmenothing ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:12:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I would go to an art gallery that only had pictures of olive garden bread sticks so shut your mouth. Then open it back up to eat that glorious food.
Parabolic_Ballsack ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:33:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Same with videography and video editing. People wonder why hiring professionals is so expensive but there is so much that goes into it. Then they hire someone for a "great deal" and get a shitty product.
richmana ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:36:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I got an LG V10 a few weeks ago and I don't feel worthy of its camera.
AwesomeScreenName ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:38:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I see that you know my ex wife!
Salty_Cats ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:05:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
People buy pictures I take of them and I still don't claim to be a professional, I know there is a huge difference between what I do and Professional
sequentialsilence ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:25:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a professional photographer, this, so much this. The only time I try and convince people now is when repeat business is on the line, and then it's super easy. I just have them take their pictures first, and then I come in and take the picture directly after them. I've never had someone not hire me after that.
akatherunt ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:00:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know a bunch of 'professional photographers' and their stuff is terrible. One of them is taking lessons and trying to learn to get better, which is awesome, and the other thinks she'd God's gift to photography. I see their posts all over Facebook at they're terrible. A 1000 camera does not make you a photographer just as a set of fancy chefs knives does not make me a chef.
affenpinscher ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:22:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's not just the "momtographers," for many years starting in the mid 90s I worked as a horse photographer. Then in the early 2000s heaps of dickwad argumentative men would just show up at shows where I was the official, having gone through the show management. Everyone was suddenly a horse photographer, despite lack of both horse and photography knowledge. I decided I had enough and went back to school and switched to graphic design.
CholentPot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:28:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I play on hard mode. I started with film 3 years ago.
Pulling dusty books from the 70's and 80's to gain more XP.
BluegillQ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:39:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
True.
But my husband does it for a living, and we still laugh about how weird it is. He scouts locations for film/commercials, and I can't tell you how many times he's scouted beautiful mountain parks. I'm so jealous.
I just spent all day today prepping him for an "overnight" - he's gonna go camping in the desert (Joshua Tree) to take specific night time jutting rocks images. It's like, people would do this for fun but he gets paid for it. I know I wish I could go!
A couple of times he's scouted abandoned stuff, really scary because he's alone. I like the reddit threads about abandoned buildings but it really is scary - but he gets paid!
It's not creative, but you do have to be good at capturing what the production is looking for.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:49:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As the son of a professional photographer and someone who pursues photography as a hobby this shit drives me up the fucking wall.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:02:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wedding cinematographer here. Can confirm/hard as hell.
MisterDavidC ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:11:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"That's a great photo! You must have a really good camera."
You don't tell Jimi Hendrix he makes great music cuz he has a great guitar. Not comparing myself to Hendrix but you get the point. Everything takes practice.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:20:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
On the other hand, photography has become much easier since digital cameras came along and darkrooms became obsolete
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:58:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I thought that only my photog friends and I were the bitter ones but I stand corrected!
Managing a portrait studio (worst example of course) for a few years I heard so many people tell me things like, "Psh, I could take that photo with my cell phone." And "This has got to be such an easy job to just take pictures all day." Like, excuse me? There's so much work that goes behind each and every one of my sessions. Hours of planning, shooting, editing, printing etc. It takes so much more than a high end camera to be a professional photographer! Not only that but I also have to be relatable, funny, sensitive to body issues, considerate of boundaries, good with kids, unique, creative, excited and treat every single mother fucker I meet like they're royalty to get as much money out of them as possible. Even when they're complaining left and right about everything from wrinkles to lighting, knowing damn well they're "technically" wrong. Being a photographer takes patience; whether you're photographing kids or wild animals. Being a photographer takes passion; after all you have to be able to recognize beauty in everything you see. Being a photographer takes technical skill; you must be able to operate your camera under any conditions and work through various obstacles that may come up. That's the only thing that keeps me going to be honest; I know I'm the real deal. I know this is the career for me and no matter how much bullshit has come along with the rise in wannabes, I'm sticking with it. Eventually true talent will overcome these filters! At least that what I'm going to keep telling myself because I'm doing what I love!
bearishparrot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:00:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Wow great picture! You must have a nice camera"
That's like telling a chef he cooked a good meal because he has a nice stove.
imperi0 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:22:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wedding photographer, here. Fucking tell me about. So tired of losing out on jobs because Jane over there got bored being a SAHM so she bought a camera from Wal-Mart and stumbled upon Picnik and now charges $50 for an entire wedding package. But I guess that's also on the people who actually think it's a good idea to hire those types...
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:22:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I definitely agree. People who get a DSLR and just take up close pictures of flowers on Instagram and say they are a photographer are a tad obnoxious. In the same vein, when people call me a "professional photographer" (I'm only moderately experienced) it really makes me cringe and I'm always quick to correct them.
[deleted] ยท 2165 points ยท Posted at 12:27:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drive. We're all idiots.
OklahomerSimpson ยท 1281 points ยท Posted at 13:39:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
-Everyone who drives
[deleted] ยท 385 points ยท Posted at 14:34:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hey, I KNOW I'm a danger to everyone I come across! I deliberately turned down a job an hour away because I was scared I would kill myself and someone else if I drove that much.
The_Kwyjibo ยท 238 points ยท Posted at 16:32:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is it possible to accidentally turn down a job?
DeonCode ยท 184 points ยท Posted at 17:20:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When they reach to shake your hand, you lower their arm.
onetwo3four5 ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 18:45:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Then lift it back up, then lower it again, then lift... Wait that's just. a handshake nvm.
Derf_Jagged ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 01:36:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is how you accidentally take the job
TheySayItDonBLikItIs ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 20:22:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
GOD DAMMIT! WHY DOES THIS KEEP HAPPENING?!
XDSHENANNIGANZ ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:28:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This kills the W-2
iwbwikia_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:05:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
accidentally though
Orionator ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:44:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Congratulations! Swing by on Monday so we can pick out a desk for you!"
"A desk? Thanks, but what I really need is a job."
Lidesia ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:00:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not go to the follow up interview because you misspelled the phone number/ email.
rangerthefuckup ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:48:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
accidental dickpic would do it
TheRealEmberlynx ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:36:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My grandmother once accidentally bought a house, so I'm sure she could do it.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:15:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How? How does one accidentally buy a house?
TheRealEmberlynx ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:34:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
She got fed up with paperwork she didn't understand and so she just starting signing and agreeing to anything put in front of her and giving them anything they asked for, including credit card number. She realized later that all of that paper turned out to be the deed for a new house since they knew she would pay for it without question.
quenishi ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:21:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My brain sometimes turns down jobs on my behalf by refusing to work during interviews, especially if there's a bad vibe... does that count? :P
goplayer7 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:49:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I get you with that one. I did an interview for an internship where one of the things that they wanted to do was to program a simplified version of chatzy.
GrollTheLicker ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:21:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes. I once didnt see an email with a job offer (the told me they never email and always call) and went to a different job instead.
Wherearemylegs ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:56:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Depends on how bad a driver you are.
Mufestus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:03:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Interviewer: Kid, I like your style! Would you mind getting started tomorrow?
Applicant: You bet I would!
Just like that my friend. Accidentally turned down.
Xantarr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:57:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes
Quaeras ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:48:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The likely antonym would be inadvertently.
RottMaster ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:59:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not sure but for me it wasn't even possible to purposely turn down a job. Office Depot was hiring me but I got a better job so I went in and told the general manager what happened. He called me back 2 days later asking if I'd be coming in for my shift that morning at 7...
reddit_spelunker ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:17:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
you seemed to miss the word because. everyone who upvoted you is an idiot chasing pedantry
edit. although specifically wouldve worked much better
The_Kwyjibo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:21:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I made a joke. chill out.
Korlus ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:38:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You should get better at driving if you genuinely think you are going to kill somebody (or yourself) if you do it often enough.
If you plan on continuing to drive for the rest of your life, eventually it is going to happen. Often local police forces run things like advanced driving courses and similar. It's worth looking into.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:45:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, it's not like I don't know how to in theory, or I don't get enough practice. I just have pretty terrible awareness of my surroundings and response time. I don't know how to fix that.
badonk_a_donk_donk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:50:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being aware of your limitations is better than not being aware. If you're in a situation where you need good peripherals and response time (e.g. changing lanes at the last minute to avoid getting stuck behind someone turning), at least you won't expect yourself to do something quick and rash. I have seen plenty of drivers who obviously don't know that they're not aware of their surroundings.
CarbonNightmare ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 16:27:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But I mean, I really feel that way - I've driven for 10 years, almost every day, often professionally, never even bumped or scraped anything, and I just can't get over how nonchalant people are about moving tons of metal within a meter of someone else doing the same, fuckers need to pay more attention. Except me. I'm fine.
HubbaMaBubba ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:26:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone faster than me is a maniac, anyone slower is an old lady.
iMakeNoise ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:19:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
-me
Grumpy_Kong ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:56:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You know, I really do a lot to try and 'traffic bust'...
I leave a car and a half length in front of me so I don't constantly 'break-tap' when people ahead of me do (the biggest non-damage contributor to congestion).
I merge early.
I don't merge just to get a car length ahead.
I don't use the shoulder as an extra lane to get in front of everyone else at the light.
I keep a look out for motorcycles.
I usually don't go more than 5 or 6 above the limit unless passing or merging.
And yet.
And Yet.
Everyone is 'Oh no you aren't IN traffic, you ARE traffic lololol!'.
So, literally, my efforts only amount to me getting to work later than someone who wouldn't otherwise. Because it only works if at least 10% of us on the road do it. Which apparently there isn't.
If I hear that phrase one more time I am going to give up bothering to be a conscientious driver, because apparently we don't exist and I'm tired of being late to work because I drive rationally.
rchaseio ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:31:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's how I drive. I always try to drive with no impact on others. Kinda the golden rule. I cherish smoothness. Minimum use of brakes, no surprises to other drivers. Look far ahead and plan for the next mile, not the hundred feet in front of you. Pay attention.
Grumpy_Kong ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:20:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's a good pint, I'm really amazed how long my brakes last compared to my friends.
smokeyjones666 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:34:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I drive like this in heavy traffic. I didn't always, I used to be the guy who jumps from lane to lane trying to get one more car length ahead of everybody else. Then one day I had an epiphany and realized that heavy traffic is just a multiple packs of cars squished together and that the only thing to do was go with the flow. The energy expenditure of overtaking the car ahead of me to gain only one car length of relative distance is not worth it, nor is the wear on my brakes from having to absorb that energy once I overtake that car and have to slow down behind the next one. Normally, I tend to drive with a heavy foot, but when traffic gets heavy I ease off and go with the flow.
gilesroberts ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:38:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you meet the occasional idiot on the road, then you met the occasional idiot on the road. If all the drivers you meet are idiots, then you're the idiot.
Baneslave ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:15:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nah. I am really unsure about my driving and sincerely feel (and hope) that rest of you are much better drivers than me.
NICKisICE ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:14:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I would say at any given moment, 5-10% of the people on the road are idiots. The people who are idiots right now may not be idiots later.
I'd say I'm that idiot ~5% of the time, and I absolutely realize I make stupid choices while driving. on occasion.
Jizzicle ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:42:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
-George Carlin
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:02:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am a month old driver and I definitely know I am an idiot behind the wheel until I practice more and more and get better at it eventually. Accepting yourself and being a cautious idiot yields better results than being a bold idiot.
Vomath ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:06:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"You're not in traffic, you are traffic."
Slimjeezy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:54:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I accept that while I strive to drive the best I can, taking into account those other things on the road, people have varying moods and philosophies on driving style and its hard for us to meld at times.
Although I still think I'm pretty good. Its just that most people are. Driving is fucking easy.
Mirgo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:29:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I legitimately am not an idiot when I drive.
On that last point by the way, even though it is an unpopular opinion, I genuinely believe that people using their phones while driving should be punished as if someone 21+ were driving under the influence.
Bad-Science ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:01:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everybody faster than me is an idiot, everybody slower than me is an asshole.
dank_y0 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:54:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Pretty much sums it up.
Bananagopher ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:36:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone driving faster than me is a maniac, and anyone driving slower than me is an idiot.
cp5184 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:53:01 on January 29, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone going faster than me is an idiot. Everyone going slower than me is an asshole.
tviolet ยท 334 points ยท Posted at 16:40:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Related: traffic engineering. Everyone knows exactly what they would do if they were in charge. Just sync up all the lights, it's easy right? Well, what about the intersecting streets? What if there are a lot of pedestrians and it's a huge ass intersection that take forever to get across. And there's a really heavy left turn volume but only WB to NB and so it doesn't make sense to run the opposing movement at the same time and the lefts conflict with the heavy right turn volume? And maybe there's not even room to have a dedicated left turn bay so you have to run a split phase so the left turners don't totally back things up. And the constraint is the completely fucked up interstate that is so backed up that even if you hit all greens, traffic on the local street still wouldn't be moving because there's nowhere to go. But, yeah, we could just sync up all the lights, it's easy.
[deleted] ยท 49 points ยท Posted at 18:33:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Forever relevant XKCD
Also one of my favorite mouseover texts.
Spartan1997 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 06:15:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What is the mouse over text?
zupernam ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:17:31 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"You can look at practically anything around you and think 'some engineer was frustrated while designing this.' It's a little human connection."
pekeqpeke ยท 62 points ยท Posted at 17:09:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Dude I could totally do traffic engineering
Redwrath ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 19:05:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You get a yield sign, and you get a yield sign!!!
donjulioanejo ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:34:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Pretty sure it's the same thing as a stop sign. /s
mebob85 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 19:14:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I play Cities: Skylines, I consider myself a traffic engineering expert
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:34:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I understood all of that! So easy!
loveshisbrews ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:14:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah he makes it sound so easy.
lolwtfomgbbq7 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 20:26:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you have data on people per minute for each way someone could cross the intersection, then make a cycle that gives each way its percentage of time corresponding to its percentage of traffic I feel like it would not be that hard lol
pekeqpeke ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:37:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You would be surprised, doing the calculations by hand can get pretty complicated, and it goes up as the intersection has more conflict points.
Source: am civil engineer
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:11:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That works for a single intersection in which cars cross instantaneously, have infinite road to back into, and can only perform one action per traffic signal. Now, what if the volume's high going one way at 9, high going another way at noon, and the main street shuts down for a market every Thursday routing all traffic through
Tofuofdoom ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:00:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Except its not a constant flow, and the traffic lights are all part of a system. The difference between peak and middle of the night is huge, you have space restrictions, you have seasonal demands, and changing the smallest timing affects every light in the area, who have their own demands to work on.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 23:04:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
ofthedove ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 05:53:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, they sometimes are. Just because the engineers designed a road for a given speed, doesn't mean that speed will be the limit, or even correspond consistently to the limit. Also, a lot of speed limits are set for a huge region with no regard for individual road conditions.
americanaquarium1 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:27:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
On top of which, most traffic engineering issues are extremely hamstrung by budgetary constraints and local politics. They likely know perfectly well what a whole variety of solutions are to various problems, but the city government won't assign the funding to actually fix the problems, and NIMBYs are complaining about everything that ever changes in their neighborhood.
bgon42r ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 18:14:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I get what you're saying, but to be fair it's not like the inherent difficulty of the problem is the only factor at play here.
It's also:
Not paying/hiring enough traffic engineers for your system
Not maintaining sensors/infrastructure/networks sufficiently
Not doing the correct traffic planning studies for new development
Bugs/simple human error
So I think it's still fair to complain about the traffic engineering in your city. But you are right about how many people think that it's way simpler than it really is.
tviolet ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 00:33:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well, yeah, I just mentioned the math, everything you mentioned is a component of traffic engineering as well. Unlike other engineerign fields, the political and "human psychology" aspect is huge. It all goes into why it isn't as easy as it some people think.
cheesecrystal ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:10:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is there any smart traffic light technology available. Like self governing traffic lights that work together to increase traffic/pedestrian flow instead of timed lights?
quenishi ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:29:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Yes - some of the lights around where I live have flexible timings. There are a few lights in the nearby cities that will turn red if the junction gets fouled up. One in particular is pretty noticeable as it frequently only lets a couple of cars through if it's jammed up.
Another town that I used to work in has part-time signals. Works fine, makes things quicker during the day, and ensures the roundabout isn't a nightmare during the evening. Just gotta watch out for idiots if you arrive and they turn on (though they do go amber then red when they turn on, but if someone tries to "jump" the lights, they may get surprised by the cars already on it).
Most of the lights around where I live will ordinarily only change if there's traffic around. One of the big roundabouts around here, when it's busy, the light sequence is as such it doesn't get totally fouled up (which it would without them).
Floppie7th ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:43:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes there are. There are control systems governed by a system of cameras capable of identifying individual cars, that measures flow not just at a light but approaching a light. They all communicate with one another and can optimize for overall flow and economy while having per-intersection minimum responsiveness settings (e.g. "nobody can sit at this light for more than 60 seconds").
All while having an installation cost of roughly 10% of normal in-asphalt coil sensors, because they don't have to dig up the road to install them. And also, the one I saw demonstrated was built by four college kids for a graduation project, tested in a moderate-sized town in Pennsylvania. I don't know if it would hold up to true city volume without further engineering, but it definitely worked.
Meanwhile here in Delaware, we have lights that you sit at with no cross traffic...that turn green as soon as cross traffic starts approaching them.
Tofuofdoom ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:02:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They sort of do that now. We've started installing giant magnets under the road to see where the traffic is. Problem is, this is expensive and we can only realistically install 1 or 2 per incoming lane. And then a dynamic traffic system has to do a lot with not a lot of information
HobbitFoot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:28:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There are, but the technology is relatively new and you have to lay lot of infrastructure to make it work. They are becoming popular on more trafficked corridors because of the additional capacity that the flexibility provides.
grissomza ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:21:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is there a sims type game for this? Cause I wanna play. And fail. And play again.
Admiral_Mittens ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:01:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cities: Skylines sounds like the game you're looking for. I've sunken hours and hours and hours into that game trying to perfect intersections and then fixing all the new problems my "solutions" created. Granted, it's extremely fun, but suuuper heavy on the traffic engineering aspect.
grissomza ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:28:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
now to get a computer that is good for anything besides reddit and hulu.
Quaeras ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:50:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Those are all good reasons why I'm the only car visible at a red light for 45+ seconds at 3am.
DestroyerofworldsETC ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:16:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've never said sync up lights. But maybe taking the exits of 2 lanes of NB interstate, 2 lanes of SB interstate and making it turn into 1 lane onto another interstate where this second interstate has an exit immediately where you're dumping all this traffic you're going to cause massive amounts of congestion
tviolet ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:38:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not denying there are some bad decisions but there are usually a crap ton of other factors that went into the decisions. Maybe the plan was to widen the off ramp but the local community NIMBY'd it. Or there were Right Of Way constraints like a historic church or something that prevented it. Or they discovered a buried oil tank which created a superfund situation. Or the budget was only enough to get the mainlanes and the decision was made to at least do that knowing the adjoining highway would still be a problem.
DestroyerofworldsETC ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:06:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There is a shoulder wide enough to add an additional lane. The problem is it dumps this exchange traffic onto this second highway maybe 300 feet from the off ramp so it creates a bad merging/exiting situation. No church this is in a lower level type so nothing like that. Not industrial area, this is in Texas. I doubt it's anything but idiots to be honest.
Kazath ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:26:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
See, this is where I knew all that time playing cities: skylines with traffic control mods would come in handy!
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:59:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For anyone who wants to try a spot of traffic engineering get Cities Skylines (and the mods Traffic Manager and Traffic ++) and build a dense urban center.
joeinfro ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:55:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Skylines is a traffic simulator. The house and neighborhood building is almost completely secondary.
MrBigtime_97 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:48:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That sounds like a fun problem to tackle actually
Land_Architect ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:58:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
deleted What is this?
faaaks ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:04:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I agree that it's not simple at all, but I have spotted some very simple mistakes that should easily be corrected.
For instance, there is a 5 way stoplight right near me, after midnight there is almost no one there. It can take a few minutes for the light to switch to the next one. Why couldn't the engineers simply adjust the lights to change more often late at night?
But yeah, complicated road networks are a classic example of constrained optimization. A problem that should really be solved using neural nets.
tviolet ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:42:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Could be older technology that's difficult to change. Might be because they are synced up with lights upstream and if you change the timing you throw everything off. Or maybe there was a horrific crash there at one point that killed a bunch of teenaged nuns so they've been told to never set those lights to flash. You should contact your local municipality or DOT and ask 'em; maybe they just haven't gotten any complaints and hadn't thought of it. Most Transportation Depts I know of are stretched thin and too busy putting out fires to have enough time to proactively look for stuff to tweak if no one's complained.
Stevey854 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:53:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Roundabouts everywhere
deargsi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:08:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Isn't WB to NB a right-hand turn?
tviolet ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:28:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Heh, yeah, it totally is, good catch. I was visualizing a specific EB to NB intersection when I typed that, don't know why I put WB.
Teh_Hammerer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:35:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Roundsabouts. Always roundabouts.
Or do like Turkey, and turn a giant roundabout into 4 4-way streetlamps - way to really fuck a good westerner up and make him angry.
thewolfsong ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:37:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most of what I wish is that it would be feasible to just real quick bulldoze areas and rebuild them in conveniently even grids.
Derf_Jagged ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:38:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
1) Rip up all the roads
2) Cover the Earth in a perfect grid of two-way streets
3) Sync all horizontal lights and vertical lights together
capt_pantsless ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:57:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Traffic engineering like sorta like software engineering. Except that every line of code cost 1 million at least, you must edit directly in Production environment, and with each line you add, the program still needs to run effectively.
particle409 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:02:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I would eliminate all traffic signals. Let the free market dictate who lives and who dies.
lumixel ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:27:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I literally think I could do this; it was my 2nd choice after ME. But I can't do it without the 3ish years of specialized classes and didn't live near enough to a school which offered it, so I'll be working in auto crash testing instead.
tviolet ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:39:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly, if you could fine a way in, you probably could. Traffic engineering is not insanely technical; if you're already an engineer and understand how manuals work, you can pick it up. It's more knowing all the factors that go into decisions which include law and politics. I was actually a structural engineer originally and one of my co-workers was a ME who got involved in bicycle advocacy and just got his civil PE.
lumixel ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:56:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That might be my backup plan if crash testing doesn't work out. (Accepted a position yesterday.) Traffic sounds really challenging and tedious and fun.
ALkatraz919 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:57:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
We could replace all the small traffic signals at intersections with traffic circles! Forget doing a study!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:58:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Luckily, we won't need traffic engineers eventually.
Chevaboogaloo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:52:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I would just stick roundabouts everywhere.
Jabbles22 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:59:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've wondered for a long time how they do sync up lights on some roads for the exact reasons you listed. That being said while not perfect I have driven on many roads that if you drive at a certain speed you will get mostly green lights.
In my current city it really seems worse than many other areas I have driven. I swear some major roads you hit 70% red lights.
doubledouble07 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:01:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This. Im a civil engineer / project manager directing a 200MM commercial development. If only I had a penny for every "expert" that offered me "tips"...
Tratix ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:10:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nah bro, have you seen my Cities: Skylines traffic flow?
smokeyjones666 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:49:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sometimes I wonder if engineers considered human nature in their planning for large projects. For example, there is a highway interchange where if you take a particular exit/onramp you have no distance to accelerate and nobody will let you merge. I always wondered why everybody was such an asshole at that particular spot until one day I was driving down that particular stretch of highway and became one of those assholes. The problem starts a few miles back where drivers gradually lose one right lane, and then another shortly after that. You lose one more lane at the interchange and then suddenly you're all bunched up in the rightmost lane, travelling at highway speed, frustrated with the other drivers and then here comes one more driver from the onramp to the right and who the fuck does this person think he is?
amazondrone ยท 122 points ยท Posted at 12:38:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But professional drivers do drive in a way that would be idiotic on the actual streets. So maybe we'd be fine!
SmartAlec105 ยท 71 points ยท Posted at 14:45:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What kind of professional drivers? There's stuff like racing and then there's stuff like trucking.
amazondrone ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 15:17:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ah, good point. I was only thinking about racing.
Jesuslordofporn ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:27:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think it applies to both, though not all truckers drive like ass hats.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:03:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
At least where I'm from truckers are the most predictable drivers on the road. Where do they have a reputation as asses?
Jesuslordofporn ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:37:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
PA they tend to change lanes spontaneously and without signaling, but to be fair that is most of PA. Its just scarier when an 18 wheeler to the right of you starts pulling into the lane. Also, at intersections they just kind of go, and assume nobody will hit them. The traffic light near the local highway on ramp has a crash every other week.
Floppie7th ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:46:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've lived in PA and experienced, at least in southeast PA, exactly how well people understand how 4-way stops work. That is to say, not at all. Most of the time they all just sit there with nobody moving.
Jesuslordofporn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:38:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I would prefer that. I have almost gotten hit at a 4-way more then a few times. People just guess at when their supposed to go, assuming they stop in the first place.
CptMalReynolds ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:45:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The reason truckers just go is because signaling and waiting to get into the next lane takes forever, and we miss our exits. Everyone has this mentality that it's the worst thing since the Holocaust to get stuck behind a semi, so everyone keeps driving by instead of letting them in. Like you said, you see a huge semi moving, you stay out of the way. We count on that in crazy traffic. To this day, there is a trucker stuck in the middle lane of a loop with his blinker still on, circling, circling, circling....
Jesuslordofporn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:44:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thats fair, and if I see a truck trying to merge I will change into the other lane. The problem is when Im in the left lane already, and a truck merges on top of me without signaling or checking their blind spot. Maybe it would be more fair to the profession to say that some truck drivers are asshats, some are completely fine. Which basically just describes the human race.
halibutcrustacean ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:35:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Taxi drivers and delivery people are also professional drivers.
Beegrene ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:31:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was thinking the drivers in all those car commercials.
SteelSings ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:48:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Melbourne taxi drivers have seen one too many driving stunt videos.
SteveJEO ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:13:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Rally.
Amusingly a friend of mine was taught to drive a car by a rally driver and a bike by a TT driver.
For a happy safe life 'do not get in/on vehicle' with him.
Floppie7th ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:47:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Instructions unclear, climbed into motorcycle and sat on top of car
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:42:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes.
tank_Loughlin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:14:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well my best mate is a "precision driver". Works around 45 hours a week driving. It's normally at race tracks doing driver experience ( those presents were you get to drive a lambo for and hour, he shows you how to drive) then he also tests drives new cars on ice tracks in the winter and he also get hired to drive cars for adds.
bossmcsauce ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:35:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
drive like a bus driver.
but in seriousness, he's probably talking about drifting rather than racing. If you drove on the roads like a formula 1 driver, it wouldn't be THAT bad. High grip, constantly driving in a pack of like, 15 other cars all going super fast with inches between them...
kaenneth ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:45:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
One takes much more skill; they both drive 500 miles, but only one of them has to turn to the right.
Maoman1 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 21:46:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There's a big difference between racing and nascar.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:13:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Maoman1 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:05:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ugh ffs. I should have known this would happen.
I didn't say it was easy I said it was different. I know nascar is difficult and requires a lot skill but you can't reasonably argue it's not a significantly simplified version of racing designed to allow the crowd to watch all the action. It's racing that panders to the audience. It's still racing and is still difficult but other forms of racing with real tracks are significantly more difficult.
/u/kaenneth implied that trucking takes more skill because nascar only "has to turn to the right," while /u/SmartAlec105 was referring to racing and trucking. All I meant was since nascar is already more difficult than trucking, real racing, which is significantly more difficult than nascar, doesn't even come close to trucking.
Asshats need to slow down with the downvote.
kaenneth ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:29:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Guys, it was a joke, chill out.
[deleted] ยท 105 points ยท Posted at 13:27:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's the morons who try to drive like professional drivers whilst they're on the streets who are the problem
wompratfever ยท 66 points ยท Posted at 13:44:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
all we know for sure is.... im no STIG
pushtheTALLpedal ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:14:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But I am... The Stig's Albanian cousin!!
Carnivorous_Jesus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:49:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
...or are you
kaenneth ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:44:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Having never seen the STIGs face, maybe it's you, but you were drugged to forget it.
NapoleonTroubadour ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:30:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
........in the wooooooorrrrllldd
mreniac ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:52:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I hear ya. All those accidents caused by people thinking they can text/play with radio/do makeup/read the newspaper like a professional are the problem.
rangerthefuckup ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:49:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In their corollas
Amberleaf29 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 09:38:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I took a winter driving class and there was a saying... I don't remember exactly, but it was something like, "Anyone can drive fast... Smart drivers know when not to." Makes a lot of sense, really.
el_muerte17 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:45:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Seems to vary wildly. I've had maybe two bad experiences with truckers; they generally seem to have their shit together pretty well. Cabbies, on the other hand, are a bunch of idiot fuckwits who daily exemplify all the worst behaviour on the road.
Nieros ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:51:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
there's a difference between being a good driver, and being good at driving.
RedMist_AU ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:24:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Erm, wtf? You seem to be confusing professional "we get paid for it all day" and race/ stunt drivers.
amazondrone ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:33:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well, I wouldn't say I was confusing them. Professional racing drivers are still professional drivers. But I did only consider racing drivers and not any other kind of professional driver, and in that regard I was wrong. As has already been pointed out by many.
MpVpRb ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:09:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Controlling a motorcycle at high speed
I once tried motorcycle road racing, and took classes at several top riding schools. The instructors told us that most fatal crashes are caused by young guys buying a fast bike and not having any idea whatsoever how to control it at high speed. High speed riding is counter-intuitive. Inexperienced riders do just about everything wrong
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:10:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh definitely. I had a bike for a little bit and it was the perfect starter bike: cbr 250. Looked sporty and fast but with a nuetral (closer to being like a bicycle in terms of posture rather than the classic sport bike posture) riding position and a very forgiving clutch. I miss my little Quin, she was a great bike.
guitarfingers ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 21:08:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a driver for UPS. I agree. No one in Oregon knows how to coast, they just hit the brake as soon as they see brake lights. Never mind looking ahead of your vehicle two or three cars at least(try to look twelve seconds out), to see if those people are breaking. If you can't see that far, you're too close to the car in front of you. Keep a proper following distance, etc. People cannot drive, it's not a right and I think the tests should be harder and required retesting every ten years or something stupid like that. It would keep the dumbasses with no situational awareness from driving and probably help cities organize better public transport. I have to use my horn so much because people fail to check their blind spots, signal before turning OR switching lanes. That shit can kill someone at highway speeds or even on a road should the hit you into a pedestrian or oncoming traffic. Hugely unpopular opinion probably. But if you can't keep up with semis in a new car in the rain and semis have to pass you, you shouldn't be driving.
kaenneth ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:47:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
http://11foot8.com/
CJ_Jones ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:56:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can confirm, learning to drive atm. It's difficutl to redit and driv.
Chupacabra_Sandwich ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 14:54:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A million percent this. Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone cuts people off. Everyone, everyone, everyone.
kperkins1982 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:55:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think the difference is that some people think they are perfect drivers and everybody else is bad, but some people understand that they aren't perfect and are actively trying to improve and stay focused.
We've all had a close call where we knew we weren't paying well enough attention and avoided something, smart people will put down the phone, slow down and make an effort to improve, everybody else just blames the other idiot driver for the close call
Chupacabra_Sandwich ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:58:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The whole attitude of "This complete fucking idiot cut me off on my way to work today! Could have killed somebody! Learn to drive moron!" just pisses me off. It's like, trust me, you make mistakes also.
Brio_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:14:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
All professionals make mistakes in their careers. That doesn't mean they can't do their job. Sometimes making mistakes doesn't make you a bad driver.
udbluehens ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:14:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Im pretty bad, but in the past 2 days alone, Ive witnessed:
1) Someone makes a left out of a gas station onto oncoming traffic and then make another left onto oncoming traffic. I guess it saved him some time
2) Somone makes a turn going down the wrong way on a one way road. Then did a 3-turn using the sidewalk to go back the right way.
3) I was stopped at a light with a big no right turn on red sign, im waiting to turn right. Guy passes me on the shoulder with one wheel on the sidewalk since their wasnt enough room. Then turns right anyways. Luckily the pedestrians waited for him to do his business.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:56:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
smokeyjones666 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:56:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In MN I add any car with a license plate beginning in 'W' to that list. I'm convinced 90% of those people were already bad drivers when they got popped for driving under the influence.
tacojohn48 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:44:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think something like a tenth of a percent of the drivers in Memphis are the worst in the world. The rest of us are actually the world's greatest as we have to learn to avoid them and the potholes.
6Red ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:45:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's funny, most people think that they could be a NASCAR driver pretty easily.
"It's just turning left, how hard can it be?"
Ok, but what makes you think that you turn left faster than everyone else?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:08:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Except me
oldnyoung ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:49:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"None of us are as dumb as all of us"
Brio_ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:14:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most people drive perfectly fine. All people make minor mistakes once in a while.
SuperThunderMelon ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:23:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When cycling, I'm most afraid of profession drivers since most of them make frequent stops without looking or signaling. Buses and taxis cut across bike lanes with no turn signals all the time and it's really dangerous. The average driver is also bad, but they don't cut across my lane as often.
0j0s ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:29:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know, it seems pretty easy to know the rules and stick by them. It's what good drivers do most of the time. It may take me three manoeuvres to parallel park, but I will always stop for pedestrians to cross the street.
notLOL ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:51:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Professional driver? It's easy to make a living off it. Millions of people aren't dieing when they drive. You misread the question.
lordhellion ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:04:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Driver's ed classes need to emphasize that you're not given a driver's license because you know all there is about driving, you get a license because you've learned the bare minimum there is to know about driving.
smayper ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:56:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There should be classifications of drivers. When you take your driving test you should get a grade that would put you in a class. For example: A-class drivers would be allowed to drive 15+mph over the speed limit, and D-class drivers aren't allowed to drive at night, or when it is raining. There would also be specific rules regarding poor weather conditions. A-class drivers get to commute from 6-8am, and B class drivers from 8-10 etc. You have to disclose your driving class on job applications so employers know when they can expect you to arrive at work during a blizzard. Just saying.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:49:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In the snow today person in front of me was going a little too fast. Bend in the road comes up, well he keeps doing straight instead of turning and came 2 feet from taking out a gas station pump.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:52:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've had the same car for long enough that I know exactly how big it is and how it handles. So in my own car I can do all sorts of creative maneuvers but I also know what my car is simply unable to do. Give me a different car and I'm the safest driver you'll meet since I don't know the limits of the car.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:59:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Have driven for part of my income for a decade. Can confirm, most people are a wide spectrum of horrid drivers.
laughing_cavalier ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:01:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Came here to say this. Was driving since I was 16. Took a driving course at a speedway at 45 and learned more in that 8 hour period than I had in the 29 years of driving.
If I had my way I would change the legal driving age to 18.
JuDGe3690 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:59:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Same thing with riding a bicycle. Most people think it's super easy, or think they can get on a bike and ride without any training. Quite often, though, this either instills bad behaviors that feels safe but isn't (e.g. wrong-way riding, sidewalk riding), and they have no bike-handling skills to avoid most common non-car-bike crashes.
I've been bike-commuting for about three years now, and car free for the last five, so I considered myself pretty knowledgeable, but taking an intensive three-part Cyclingsavvy course last summer taught me more than I thought it would. We had a classroom session with excellent graphics showing the way traffic works according to rules of motion, and some of the best practices, then a parking-lot drill session where we learned emergency handling maneuvers, then an on-road ride that put everything together while slowly building riders' confidences.
The same thing applies to motorcycles as well; incidentally, the CyclingSavvy program is based on Motorcycle Safety Foundation courses.
tibsalot ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 12:53:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If no one can drive, everyone can drive! ...Right?
Jesuslordofporn ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:28:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If no one can drive, self driving cars become very important.
Ftfy
expendablethoughts ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:14:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well, I stop at stop signs, I don't go more than 10% the speed limit and I always put my blinkers on. Never been in an accident. I think I'm doing a pretty good job.
combichristo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:58:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Professional driver here. Suck it plebs!
Uncle_Skeeter ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:39:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone who uses oxygen is a goddamn bastard and you can't tell me otherwise.
Kindofaniceguy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:47:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A lot of work has gone into making us think we're good drivers
Lifeguard4Life ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:03:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can drive fairly well. Now only if I could simultaneously drive for all of the stupid motherfuckers in the cars around me. I've only ever been in a single accident and I didn't cause it.
DidgeryDave21 ยท 1140 points ยท Posted at 12:29:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
DIY, specifically carpentry. Everybody looks at a table and says "yeah, all I need is a saw and a drill to build that, woud save me a fortune. Easy!" - if it were that easy, it wouldn't cost ยฃ350.
only_your_opinion ยท 510 points ยท Posted at 13:11:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. Did that table cost the company $20 to make, probably. But you are not paying for the cost of material or even labor. You are paying for their skill and ability to make a useful table.
spriteburn ยท 787 points ยท Posted at 15:27:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You're paying for the tableness.
Minn-ee-sottaa ยท 324 points ยท Posted at 17:29:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Found Plato.
spookmann ยท 64 points ยท Posted at 20:13:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Meh, it's easy to make a table. Start with a block of wood, and remove everything that isn't "table-y".
deedlede2222 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 01:00:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Did I just see a Forms joke on Reddit?
5peasinapod ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:14:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Found Ole.
myusernameistheshit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:34:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do you mean Plateau?
Minn-ee-sottaa ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:37:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, I mean Plato.
Plato was the one who said that items and things that man created are symbols or extensions of the "ideal" thing. A table is a representation of what we believe to be the "God-Table", or an extension of "tableness".
hewenthatway ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:01:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Isn't aristotle tableness and plato there is an ideal form of a table from which all tables come?
clearedmycookies ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:27:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep, good old pluto
myusernameistheshit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:50:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know. It was meant as a pun, because a table is a plateau.
nightsticks ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:25:55 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No.
nightsticks ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:26:20 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This comment is amazing.
Arryk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:50:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I grant you... The smuggest of up votes.
mubukugrappa ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:46:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"To make our difficulties plain, let us concentrate attention on the table. To the eye it is oblong, brown and shiny, to the touch it is smooth and cool and hard; when I tap it, it gives out a wooden sound. Any one else who sees and feels and hears the table will agree with this description, so that it might seem as if no difficulty would arise; but as soon as we try to be more precise our troubles begin. Although I believe that the table is 'really' of the same colour all over, the parts that reflect the light look much brighter than the other parts, and some parts look white because of reflected light. I know that, if I move, the parts that reflect the light will be different, so that the apparent distribution of colours on the table will change. It follows that if several people are looking at the table at the same moment, no two of them will see exactly the same distribution of colours, because no two can see it from exactly the same point of view, and any change in the point of view makes some change in the way the light is reflected." - Bertrand Russell in Problems of Philosophy
lawesipan ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:24:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"A commodity appears, at first sight, a very trivial thing, and easily understood. Its analysis shows that it is, in reality, a very queer thing, abounding in metaphysical subtleties and theological niceties. So far as it is a value in use, there is nothing mysterious about it, whether we consider it from the point of view that by its properties it is capable of satisfying human wants, or from the point that those properties are the product of human labour. It is as clear as noon-day, that man, by his industry, changes the forms of the materials furnished by Nature, in such a way as to make them useful to him. The form of wood, for instance, is altered, by making a table out of it. Yet, for all that, the table continues to be that common, every-day thing, wood. But, so soon as it steps forth as a commodity, it is changed into something transcendent. It not only stands with its feet on the ground, but, in relation to all other commodities, it stands on its head, and evolves out of its wooden brain grotesque ideas, far more wonderful than โtable-turningโ ever was." - Karl Marx - Das Kapital.
ragingfailure ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:17:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You can tell it's a good table, because of the way that it is.
phorgewerk ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:37:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The tableity if you will
OneAndOnlyJackSchitt ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:35:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sometimes, you're paying premium for extra tableness.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:49:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The tability it took to make it
charliesinthebushes ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:56:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You're paying for being able to put shit sur le table.
boojombi451 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:23:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Found the essentialist shitlord.
bossmcsauce ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:58:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
https://youtu.be/sYWYU5V8JOo?t=22m48s
the pigness of being a pig. that guy is also really fucking awesome, and more people need to know about his shit.
ITRAINEDYOURMONKEY ยท 123 points ยท Posted at 17:00:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Also it only cost them $20 to make because they buy supplies by the truckload. Economies of scale make it hard to DIY a lot of things for cheaper than buying them
Tubaka ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:09:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Are you implying that I cannot make my own dentist grade toothbrushes for under 50 cents?
trinlayk ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:48:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
additionally with low waste, due to knowing what they are doing as professionals....
vs DIY first timer, guessing at what to do, and ruining materials.
EsQuiteMexican ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:41:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And they have power tools! Those table saws are so cool and cut through wood so neat and smoothly like a scissor cuts through paper. They also cost around the same as a used car.
benhadhundredsshapow ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:38:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And it cost them an initial tens of thousands of dollars investment to get to that point.
Mittee1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:27:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hell yes. I just got into sewing some clothes for myself, thinking it'd save some money. I spent $40 on material to make a skirt from a pattern that cost $10, and I'm not even that happy with it!
JoeyJoeJoeJrShab ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:07:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I have enough skill to make a reasonable bookshelf, or I can buy one for 1/4th the price at Ikea. Mine would be of higher quality, but I couldn't even make a cheaper one, even if I sacrificed quality. Volume makes all the difference.
who-really-cares ยท 129 points ยท Posted at 16:05:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Also, wood is a lot more expensive than people think. Unless you mill and dry it yourself, but that adds a lot of time and equipment cost, and we're back to why wood is expensive.
Fosheze ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 18:38:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not to mention every DIY carpenter wants to buy cheap shitty lumber. My sister recently got into selling crafty stuff and decided she wanted to make a toy box. So she went out and bought some fucking Menard's 2x4s and asked me for help. If you are going to make something you need to buy good dry lumber from an actual lumber yard not some cheap shitty boards from Menard's which are so warped you could use them as a corkscrew and so wet they practically sweat.
TRextacy ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 19:36:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You mean to tell me all this oak is going to cost more than construction grade pine from home depot?!
waffles ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:07:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've had so many people dig through a unit of spruce studs to find perfect looking pieces.
It's one thing if you're only getting a few. But when you're trying to find 20 that will be in your wall and week never be seen but are the most perfect pieces you've ever laid eyes on? That's when we have a problem.
adrianmonk ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 22:29:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I thought about trying woodworking as a hobby. Then I looked into how expensive wood is, and I started to think, hmm, maybe I should take up a cheaper hobby, like racing cars.
Dr-NguyenVanPhuoc ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:40:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
equipment cost is a big factor. you want to build that table? alright but you need $200,000 for the machines first. if it's just a single project, you pay other people to do it since they already have the equipment. we've got some machines that are half a million plus and of course that affects the product's price
whatisyournamemike ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:00:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yea but it grows on trees.
waffles ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:05:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I do sales at a lumber yard. When people see prices I get some great reactions.
Lowe's and Home Depot have cheap wood. But they're getting shit.
Nobody understands wood grades, or what you use each grade for. #2 is wet treated and knotty and could have bark. You use it for framing and other stuff where you won't see it. #1 is kiln dried and still has knots.
Want clear wood? Buy clear. But you can bet your ass that you're paying for it. They're not throwing a clear piece in with the #2.
PoliticalLava ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:45:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have been woodworking for ~3 years. Cost me $1k to get a decent setup (a lot from craigslist or gifts). I can now make "that table," but holy shit it took me forever to get there. My cuts still aren't perfect, so you will get a table that is okay, but not great.
Oh, and fuck that reclaimed wood noise. Don't mark shit up for wood you got for free. I can see 100+yo barn wood marked up; but pallets, seriously?! /rant
swigglediddle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:42:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cherry is my favorite wood, it looks so nice. I made a little table out of it, and I love the redish tint.
Salt_peanuts ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:10:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Labor is a huge part of it but it's just the beginning.
A: wood is more expensive than you think. A decent hardwood table could easily be $500 in just wood or more if it's something exotic.
B: it takes a ton of tools to make something like that. Even with hand tools, if you want good results you're spending $275 on a hand plane, and you need at least 3 or 4 kinds. And that's not even counting fasteners, glues, finishes, etc.
C: Carpenters frame houses. Woodworkers build tables.
D: if you want a real eye opener, look at how long it takes to make a chair. A dining room table might take the same amount of time as one or two chairs, but you can't charge much for a chair and you need 8 or even 12.
who-really-cares ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:28:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Man you are so right about the chairs. Those things are hard.
I spend a decent amount of time in /r/woodworking as maybe you do as well.
There are probably 100 tables built for every one chair on there. I have never seen anyone post a set that they made.
Megatron_McLargeHuge ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:25:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You're probably paying for the retail space and marketing. If you go to an out of the way town where Amish or other small craftsmen have their own shops, you'll find top quality hardwood furniture for a fraction the price of stapled together junk from Ethan Allen type yuppie furniture stores.
MrVilliam ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:39:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Tability costs a small fortune.
kcdwayne ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:02:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And tools! To make a nice table, you need things like routers, a lathe, sandpaper, stain, sealer, hardware (screws, brackets, etc)..
A decent lathe alone will cost you more than a couple of tables.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:23:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Im really lucky, because i got into woodworking when i was younger, and so when i was 10 my parents got a second hand lathe, and then for christmas most years id usually get another tool. Saved me a ton of money.
MpVpRb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:12:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And, in the case of manufactured furniture, expensive machinery, jigs and fixtures
godless-life ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:29:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A really nice piece of wood alone (quality, type, pattern, size) can also be quite expensive.
senatorskeletor ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:41:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I get that a lot as a lawyer. The senior partners especially often receive complaints like "I paid you $10,000 for eight hours of work?" Their response is "no, you paid $10,000 for 25 years of expertise."
GoonCommaThe ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:06:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most wooden tables probably did not cost only $20 to make.
seeking_hope ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:49:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is the same for handmade crafts like knitting scarves or blankets.
AlwaysWannaDie ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:04:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As an engineering student, everything you buy, use, look at, is made available from engineers. Doing one table with your hands sure man. Try to do a table, that needs to follow very specific needs. While also making sure that it can be produced by a very specific set of machines. And you cant' just say that the table needs to be 20 cm wide, it needs to have a tolerance. And the list goes on, your twentydollar table is made possible from hundreds of thousands of dollars
DrAnon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:08:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I use this argument when people tell me doctors, esp surgeons are overpaid. It takes a decade to learn what I do. You are compensating me for the entire decade, my twenties (arguably the best decade), and also so that I don't cut the wrong shit out of your body. 'Cause if everybody could do it.....
ba203 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:22:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
FTFY
rundmcarlson ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:19:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most of these things are made by machines now. You are paying for shipping, shelf time, and salesman salaries.
nightraindream ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:04:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I worked out how much it would cost to build a coffee table and it was $150, decided to go buy one instead. Timber is expensive and that was just the cheap pine
SpartanDoubleZero ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:43:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Except for IKEA, you're paying for the frustrating experience that is on part with monopoly
fx32 ยท 183 points ยท Posted at 13:26:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
With furniture carpentry, you can give it a fair try though. Make a table, it might be ugly, but you can eat from it. Worst case scenario, chop it up and burn it in a fireplace.
Don't try things like constructional (load bearing) carpentry, plumbing, roofing or electrical work without some oversight from a professional though.
I was thinking: how difficult could it be to make a bathroom... Watched a dozen videos, looked perfect in the end... but the source of that tiny leak dripping into the living room was impossible to find.
jobblejosh ยท 64 points ยท Posted at 15:08:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Basically, if it could seriously fuck up your day, get someone who knows how to not fuck up your day to do it.
[deleted] ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 15:44:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:41:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:07:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Two staples? That seems like something simple to fix. Just hit them into the wall some more with a hammer, and cover up the holes with spackling paste, and paint over it. You don't need any new drywall.
vxicepickxv ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:07:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Having done electrical work for as long as I have, I just get the master electrician to check my work when I'm done. Not having to pay a middleman saves so much money. Of course, I started working with the stuff back in 1995, but it's a little different on aircraft than in a house.
WinterOfFire ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:02:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I built a bookshelf in college and a bench. My dad freaked out when I told him I bought a circular saw to cut the wood so I returned it and bought a hand saw. That bench was strong but wobbly, lol
gravitydriven ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:51:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I dunno man. Plumbing seems pretty easy.
turbodaytona87 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:15:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You didn't check for leaks before you buttoned it all up?
Minus-Celsius ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:58:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think people are irrationally afraid of DIY work, especially in 2015, the days of youtube.
It won't be as good as a pro would have done, but you accomplished something, learned something, and saved enough money to cover the 30% of times when you fuck up.
Imawildedible ยท 157 points ยท Posted at 14:00:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Professional carpenter checking in.
People seem to think it's just cutting boards to length and then nailing them together for home repair. There is A LOT to figure out during remodeling. And every one of those things that needs to be done has 10 different ways to do it. You also need to know which order to do the steps or you could seriously mess up the entire project. As a guy that has done mostly remodeling, I have a love/hate relationship with people that try to remodel on their own. I love it, because you're going to end up calling one of us and we will have to also charge you to undo what you did. I hate it, because usually what you did makes no sense and now I have to work much harder than was necessary.
Megatron_McLargeHuge ยท 91 points ยท Posted at 16:30:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
On the other hand, if I do it myself I don't have to agree to fix $1000 of BS code violations that have been fine for 50 years.
Imawildedible ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 16:43:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you know what you're doing then you can of course save money. Unfortunately most people don't know what they're doing and end up costing themselves more money and/or causing more damage. Also, unless you're selling your home or dealing with the structural integrity, chances are code issues won't arise. And if they are brought up, it's probably something that will be immediately harmful to you or your family and that should definitely be addressed.
Meowymeow88 ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 20:01:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You only see the fuckups though, not all the people that manage to do it successfully, saving on high labor costs, and learning something in the process.
The other thing is that a lot of carpenters suck ass, as I'm sure you know. Hiring one isn't a guarantee of quality or cost effectiveness. Lots of homeowners have horror stories involving incompetent and/or malicious contractors.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:17:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That was my thought. I've seen my parents do significant remodeling to their house (including finishing their basement by hand). There are a couple things that you should probably call a professional about (structure, electricity), but a lot of it comes down to doing your research.
Imawildedible ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:09:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You guys are both absolutely right. There are definitely people out there capable of doing home repairs. But most people aren't, and those are the ones that get themselves in trouble.
As for only seeing the fuckups? I'm not only a carpenter, but I'm also a person. I see plenty of people doing these things are their own. I get phone calls asking for little pieces of advice or pictures of finished projects. The fact of the matter is that for every person that is capable of doing their own repairs, there are many that aren't.
GoonCommaThe ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:07:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You generally don't if you hire someone either, they just have to do their work up to code.
evoltap ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:23:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Although I agree that many codes are a pain in the ass, I have seen way too many sketchy electrical situations that were "fine for 50 years". If you have a wall open, fix that shit. Also, every year people die because a deck wasn't built to code. Codes are part of living in civilization.
AmbitiousTree ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:51:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But codes can often go a little too far... I recently had to cut in a second crawl access because there was one plumbing clean-out more than 20 feet from the original - two fucking crawl accesses in a 1600sf house - it's a complete joke
TherapeuticThrowback ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:13:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Right? I mean, who cares if the owner before me does a shoddy electrical job and my house burns down with my family inside.
Towno ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:29:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
On the flip side, there's people like me. I inherited the family home when my father died. I'll spare you the probate lawyer and homestead vs. non-homestead property tax details that matter in my state, but the bottom line is that I'm struggling to pay my electric bill next month. I care about my family's safety, and I suppose in theory I could sell this old husk of a house for half of what someone would flip it for and buy a new house somewhere really far away from our schools and jobs, but hey, I'm just a sentimental idiot.
I doubt your flippancy was intended to be actually insulting, and I'd hazard that if you were actually face to face with a person struggling to build a better life for their family, you would be so gauche. If you have your shit together, I am really, really happy for you, and that is awesome dude. I'm not plugging for stupidity or laziness here, but there's a whole world of complications out there that become rapidly unfathomable, and unfortunately, sometimes despite all your care and hard work, you still have to spend some time treading water.
TL;DR Vimes Boot Theory of Socio-Economics
Edit: If you were blaming the previous owner's shoddy electical work for burning your family in a house you purchased after the fact, I apologize. I didn't read your post properly, and didn't realize you were saying that the burden of verifying the safety of a house's electric is on the head of the seller. Where I come from, you research what you're buying.
That way you know in advance when to prepare for wet feet.
TherapeuticThrowback ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:25:30 on January 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How would one research if there are no permits? That's why we have building codes and licensed contractors.
Towno ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:39:58 on January 27, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't disagree that building codes and licensed contractors exist with good cause, and that ideally, all houses should be held to these codes.
Generally speaking, when you go to buy a home, you inspect it--often by hiring a home inspector. Some mortgage banks, banks, realtors, sellers, buyers, etc. require a home inspection to finalize the contract between home seller and home buyer; some don't. Regardless of requirements, though, it's sort of like buying a carton of eggs. Before you buy them, you have the option of opening the box and checking to ensure none of the eggs are cracked. If you do this before you buy them, it's the grocer's problem. If you wait until after you pay and get them home, it's now your problem.
As a home buyer, you have to option of demanding the seller cover the cost of a home inspection prior to finalizing the sale, but traditionally the cost of the inspection is included in the cost of the buyer's closing costs. (I can't find a reliable statistics regarding precisely how traditionally the cost falls on the buyer, but I can get you some sources that agree with me if you like, and would be open to seeing any evidence to the contrary.)
I cannot imagine a world in which someone would offer to buy my home without first asking to have in inspected--and if by some bizarre twist of fate I decided to consider it--I would be horrified and immediately explain with great enthusiasm and vivid imagery why that was an absolutely appalling idea.
But not everyone is like that, and I imagine there's plenty of folks out there who'd be perfectly willing to part with a carton of busted eggs.
Edit: Took out a redundant "though"
Salt_peanuts ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:16:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If I could reliably identify contractors that were going to make things better and not worse, I would never DIY again. I have identified one contractor who's reliable and reasonably priced (i.e. He doesn't want $6k to tile a shower- I'm good with $2k), but he has a waiting list of literally 6 months.
If anyone has any hints I'm all ears, but until I get some more good guys it's smarter for me to watch YouTube videos and give it a try than to try to hire someone decent.
didileedoo ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:59:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You just answered your own question.
If someone has a waiting list, either get on it or ask for a recommendation. If you don't want to wait, a good contractor will pass the work on to one of their buddies who also does good work.
You don't get a good reputation and a wait list by sending people to businesses that do sub par work.
ender1108 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:07:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Another large point to your list of great points is the tools you have acquired. Sure you can get away with a lot of cuts just using a skill saw. But you can't get a top quality straight long cut without a good quality table saw. And in any business one can rack up tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment.
Aken42 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:47:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Unfortunately this does not just apply to DIY'ers. As a GC it is incredible the amount of work we have to fix that was done incorrectly by previous contractors.
Imawildedible ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:59:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So true. It's scary some of the things certain contractors will do. Check references before you hire, people!
benhadhundredsshapow ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:39:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Right? Everything is easy until you run into an issue. That's why it takes so many hours to be considered a master of your trade because only at that point have you seen enough fucked up things to be able to work around them.
BeerDrinkinGreg ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:58:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My uncle was a cabinetmaker\carpenter. He had a few different pricing tiers. He had his normal price, a 5% surcharge for "I tried to do it myself first", a 15% "I'm taking the week off work to help you so this will go faster" charge, Or alternatively, a 5% "here's the keys, I'm taking the family to the cottage for two weeks so nobody will change their mind" discount.
MrFarly ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:39:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
thats one of my favorite things about working in construction. its a lot of the same tasks but theres a different challenge every site so its never boring and mundane tasks. its always interesting.
Xpdcion ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:25:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hahaha! This comment is so true! I just recently commented on his post about DIY stuff and I said the exact same thing :)
redditsavedmyagain ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:25:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
had to tail a team at a factory once, sitting around for hours, get bored. wood and tools around, i build a chair. not a great chair, just a chair i can sit on with decent comfort.
people start falling over themselves about how its so amazing, he built a chair. not sure why. i say look, i'm not a carpenter, this is a really shitty chair, chill out guys
so they think i'm trying to be humble to fish for complements, really start laying it on, oh, you're a master woodworker, don't be so modest
i start to lose my cool, get a bit frustrated, look guys it's not sanded, no edges, the joints are crap, its just some nails and wood. they're winding me up and im getting frustrated as ive been there for hours. i mean, i was bored enough to make a chair from scratch...
fucking jesus of nazareth here, best chair ever. so humble
so i say to the guy sitting on it who kind of leading the teasing, ok, so if you're so confident, get up, stand on it, jump up and land on it
he does without thinking and the chair is completely destroyed, lands nasty on concrete floor, thankfully he brakes no bones but he was pretty injured
told you it was a shitty chair man
that carpentry stuff is hard
The_Swoley_Ghost ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:13:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Don't worry, I would have told you that your chair was a piece of shit.
Really though, chairs are some of the hardest things to make out of wood. A beautiful chair that also has structural longevity AND is comfortable to sit in is quite a feat.
I never realized until I was working with a bunch of life-long woodworkers and one of them said he was building a new dining room table but was "definitely just going to buy chairs."
.
samkostka ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:09:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I've seen firsthand how hard it is to remodel a room. My dad redid our kitchen by himself and it took almost a year, but it came out really well. However, after it started it took months before it was even close to how good it was before, which wasn't very good in the first place.
medic8388 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:41:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was taught how to do things when I was growing up by my dad and grandfathers. That being said (and this isn't limited to carpentry) I think I have learned more about how things are done properly by messing stuff up and having to go back an fix it. I do projects myself because I enjoy doing it and learning new skills not necessarily to save money. I have on a few occasions paid to have a professional assess my mess and instruct me on how to properly fix it.
nevergotgold ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:15:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You just described my life. The worst jobs are when the customer calls you after they messed everything up. "Why does it cost this much? I already did half of the work!" No you just fucked up your entire basement. I'm just trying to fix what you destroyed.
bjsy92 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:30:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wish I could be good at this stuff and build a table.
simplegooglesearch ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:57:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like you could replace the wood terms with computer data lease systems and it would be exactly what I would say to my clients when they ask why it's so difficult to do an implementation.
Weaponized_Octopus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:57:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone who thinks carpentry is easy hasn't seen the equation to figure out the number and slope of stairs. Shit looks like it was found on the Roswell crash...
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:34:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Imawildedible ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:58:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Building from scratch isn't as difficult as remodeling. It's fairly straightforward and as long as you're somewhat handy and willing to take all the time to check codes, you can do a reasonably decent job. But make sure you get all those codes correct, or your municipality can come in and make you remove the entire project.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:48:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's when there is no building code when real skill comes in. With exact steps laid out (for example, IKEA furniture) any idiot can follow them without having any prior knowledge. Building an IKEA table, for example, with exact steps written is not too hard. But it's when someone says, "build me a table" and throws you some tools and wood where know-how, experience, and instinct matter. You have to actually understand what you're doing and why youre doing it, and how to undo it if something goes wrong. You need to know all your options, not just the one laid out before you. You need to have an intimate relationship with all your tools, and an extensive understanding of the material your working with to "freestyle" it, which is what most private carpenters are doing.
Disclaimer: I'm not a carpenter; my father is, which is the only reason I know anything about this kind of stuff. He loves what he does and can be a bit pretentious.
Somefive ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:55:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For larger scale projects, in my province, there's quite a bit of building code regulations.
Imo it's fairly comprehensive. Check it out, if you want.
I've also built a table, cabinets, a birdhouse and a bit of other stuff, but I'm no pro.
almost_a_troll ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:48:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Plywood nails into the rafters, shingles nail into the plywood, you didn't mess up there. Roofing nails through the plywood is standard.
Imawildedible ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:02:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I missed that part of their comment. You're always going to have nails miss the studs when shingling. There's nothing you can do about that.
Somefive ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:55:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Huh. Should I nail another sheet of plywood on underneath to make it more aesthetic?
almost_a_troll ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:10:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd opt for some pine or cedar 1x4's, but it's personal preference.
MpVpRb ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:14:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've been building things for over 50 years, and am appalled by the quality of DIY construction I sometimes see
That's why there are building codes
alexgorale ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:26:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Doing carpentry well, maybe.
It doesn't take many tools to make decent stuff horribly cheap. I decided that I didn't want to spend thousands of dollars on furniture and started making it in my apartment with a handsaw and two power drills. I haven't done the finishing for most - too cold to go outside right now. Here's a couple progress pics during the build
Floating Bed <$100
Gaming/Dinner Table <$75
Gaming/Dinner Table 2
Pantry <$15
Media Center <$150
It's really not hard to get things 'good enough' considering the price.
I have plans for a coffee table that fits in the middle-center of the media center that rolls out. Minus the TV the thing will cost <$50 +/- the wheels
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:10:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"People who buy things are suckers." - Ron Swanson
Also, people who framed a house one summer and suddenly think they can do cabinetry XD
TheFairyGuineaPig ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:05:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I do a bit of woodworking but it's crap. I enjoy it and having a solid, actual object out of it at the end is amazing, and being able to see and feel just how much I've improved since I started is really encouraging, but I know it's not anything close to professional or the work of even the average amateur. My grandmother recently saw a jewellery box I'd been working on and told me 'you work wood just like my [great-grand]father.' He was a professional cabinet maker. Unfortunately, he was also a terrible professional cabinet maker and ended a long line of cabinet making in the family, so this was not a compliment, although I think she meant me to take it as one.
mbpboy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:24:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you. When ever someone I know says this I don't even try to explain to them the process of painting, gluing, sanding, varnishing, annual oiling depending on wood, staining, and making sure it actually can support weight. Making a good table could take weeks
tomdarch ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:19:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Architect here: On one level, I love seeing DIY remodeling. It's great that "regular folks" can put in the effort and get attractive results.
But moisture management and insulation in exterior walls is a bitch. If you're in San Diego where there's little outdoor temperature variation, fine. But a large portion of the US population live in the North East and Northern Great Lakes/Midwest where it gets cold in the winter. Codes require insulation, but when you combine cold, dry conditions outside with normal humidity inside and a layer of insulation, all sorts of bad stuff can happen as that interior humidity is "driven" to the exterior and condenses in the wall. "Vapor barrier on the warm side" is a good start, but there are exceptions. I'm hopeful that we'll get better information out there to help DIYers, but in the mean time, there's a lot of wincing and cringing at what sort of problems are being buried in walls all over that no normal home inspector can find...
SalmonellaEnGert ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:09:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Exactly. IIRC, there was this guy who renovated an empty garage to a living space. It looked really good, but there was this one thing. He left his walls just bare brick. Like outside - 9 cm brick - inside. It was just mind boggling that he spend quite a lot of money on renovating and just not thinking practical. Not only will it be freezing in the winter, condensation will be a huge issue aswell.
He thought about insulating, but he'd rather have more space on the inside. He didn't care about the heating bill.
I'll try and find the post.
E: Found it!
Redditor:"Nice. What type of climate? those bricks wall would get cold around here with no insulation."
OP: "That was definitely a consideration. DC winters can get cold. But I didn't want to lose the additional space from framing out and putting insulation and drywall over the bricks. I'll pay for the extra space and aesthetic appeal of exposed brick with increased electrical bills."
I just can't wrap my head around this.
VerbableNouns ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:34:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've got a buddy who is excellent at this. It drives me crazy that he can do it, but it's super awesome. He'll look at a pile of wood and it'll practically cut and assemble itself. His tools are such a part of him he doesn't even have to try.
Me on the other hand, I fail when trying to cut a straight line with a pair of scissors.
Jesuslordofporn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:36:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, woodworking as actually quite hard. Its much easier to jist watch someone else do it.
droans ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:33:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have no doubt that I would be bad at making furniture my first few times. I really want to try it though just because I feel that it's an experience every man should have at one point.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:50:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My dad is a woodworker and spends thousands of dollars on equipment. While he doesn't professionally woodwork, he spends most of his time in the shop he built behind our house.
dedasdude ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:07:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a person who made custom made PC chassis and server housings, this. People think that just because you found a DIY youtube video, you can simply do it. Is it easy? yes. But its easy to get perfection and repeatability. People dont realize how hard it is to work within tolerances. I have been using tools all my life(dad is very skilled) and after 6years of soldering was i able to solder quickly and evenly and properly everytime! Same with welding. Its hard to be consistent.
Brio_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:15:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
DIY has the benefit of you actually being able to follow instructions to the T.
Xpdcion ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:24:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
True. I tried making myself a computer table and I have the blueprint and everything and started building it from the scratch. I ended up making alot of mistake at first try such as doing "this" before "this" because "this" can't fit in "this" if you put "this" first. I ended up disassembling it and buying better materials and stuff. My second try and I still made mistakes until my third try. Don't get me wrong, my 3rd trial has full of new mistakes too but I referred my mistakes as experience. My 3rd table has few unrelated holes and eccentric cuts but I am proud. It's very sturdy and can be disassembled very easily!
donjulioanejo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:38:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Eh, I've done a lot of woodworking for fun when I was a teenager, and really did find it fairly easy and intuitive provided you have the proper tools (the tools make a huge difference if you don't have access to something).
But there's a huge difference between hobby projects and doing something for money. I probably spent more on wood alone than I would have for a similar nightstand/bed frame/etc at a store.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:07:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Yes! Id done some amatuer stuff. Anyways im a theatre major and i got hired to help build the set for our local opera, and i gained a whole new appreciation for cabinet makers. That shit has to be accurate within 1/32 of inch!
As a side note, 1/8th inch skin ply can go suck a termite infested dick.
jgollsneid ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:27:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I really don't want to sound like a one-upper here, but I think it's interesting when mention the accuracy of cabinetry. At my day job I'm a machinist, and I do woodworking as a hobby. 1/32 of an inch feels like a mile when you work to a thousandth of an inch or less all day (although wood has it's own challenges too, expansion and contraction across grain and such)
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:32:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Man, precision on that level just blows my mind in general.
trinlayk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:47:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fiber arts, "Yes, you might have the skills, but the materials cost $X00.00 and it take Y00 hours to make that big thing with a simple knit stitch... really I'd HAVE to charge $Z00.00 for my work, and if you were going to do it on your own, you'd spend $X00.00 on the materials and never get more than 1/4 through the project...."
The other side of that is, "make me one of these" with photo from catalogue, no offer of payment for time or materials.
whatisyournamemike ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:57:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"I saw it on new Yankee Work Shop and Norm built it in a half an
hour." "You can do it cheaper." I really hate "Those" people.
GreatEscortHaros ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:28:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I saw this one table that you could spin and it would widen three times the size in this beautifully hypnotic way. Was like 20,000 dollars.
Aardvark_Man ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:21:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
One of my mates has taken up woodwork as a hobby, as he bought an "As seen on TV" drilling guide.
I don't have the heart to tell him his stuff looks like the pallets loosely screwed together that it is.
Although my dad was a woodwork teacher and is pretty skilled with that kind of thing, so I'm probably a harsher judge than otherwise.
AlwaysSlightlyPeeved ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:34:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
DIYer here. I'm totally OK with how my crap turns out.
Boomandshit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:35:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Likewise painting. People think "oh, it can't be that hard. I just need son brushes, rollers and tape." Then I get a call to come clean up their mess because it looks like a bunch of kindergartners went wild though their house.
Rhueh ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:00:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm with you on furniture building. But DIY in general? No. Most DIY jobs are quite straightforward, and the more you do them the more true that becomes. These days, any esoteric information you might need is probably just a few clicks away.
b0jangles ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:18:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you approach it as a hobby, it can be great fun. You won't save any money but you can certainly build nice things if you work at it.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:42:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, there are some people who are really good at it, but not professionals
stfm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:50:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I make things like cabinets and tables. It is actually cheap and pretty easy but you have to spend a lot of time researching and a lot of time in labour especially when you only have basic tools.
bossmcsauce ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:38:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
well, even if you had the tools, getting good wood isn't cheap. instead of 350, it might cost you 200, and you'd probably fuck it up.
naturaldrpepper ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:46:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I made a table with a friend, from start to finish. Helped him scavenge the lumber.
That was beyond difficult, and the table looked like crap. No screws or nails, we attached the legs by whittling holes in the top and pegs on the legs and forcing the top down. The stupid thing was level, at least, but not particularly pretty. Took us two solid days of work to build the thing, which was pretty quick, but like I said: it was a basic, ugly table that only barely served the purpose it was built for.
shokalion ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:44:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A friend of mine is like this and it infuriates me.
The classic example is the expanding round table that was all over the internet a few years ago.
I showed him that and he rather fippantly responded, "yeah that's not too hard to make."
I was like "wat?", and his response was "All you have to do is build it accurately."
So "build it" and "accurately" the two hard parts, summed up in one sentence.
The best part? If I start telling him that there's value in time-honoured experience rather than just reading up on woodwork, and expecting to be able to build something like that, he takes it as a personal insult.
It's got to the point where I just smile and nod if something like that comes up. Trying to argue it with him just makes my brain start to boil.
m4xxp0wer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:57:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, almost all furniture in non-discount chains has >400% markup.
is_it_fun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:26:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I once hired a carpenter with 20 years experience to do a simple build and it still came out wrong. He did his best. Stuff is not easy.
myles89 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:07:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cabinate maker here. When you see a mass produced table for โฌ350 and think it's easy. Most of the time I can't buy the material for that table for โฌ350
ArrowRobber ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:12:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A lot of the time it is that easy, the inflated costs are because it has to be profitable for someone to make a living making nothing but tables + all the overhead of machinery & such.
People that DIY in a proper space also don't realize how much overhead they are incurring while doing it themselves. "Wow, only 20$" > -but you built up wear on 6 saw blades, 3 motors, a vaccuum cleaner, made 8 trips to the store for stuff you forgot in your car (gas$), don't have insurance if you screw up and lop off a finger, etc etc-
I enjoy very slowly making nice simple things.
SteveJEO ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 15:00:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Heh.
My uncle is a grand master carpenter...
Yeah... no.
It's cost you around ยฃ1500.
[deleted] ยท 1965 points ยท Posted at 14:48:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Judging from reddit? Being a lawyer. So many redditors think they are super attorneys because they had a high school civics class or watched a video on why not to talk to the police. It isn't the simple in the real world.
definitely_not_cylon ยท 904 points ยท Posted at 15:24:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
TV also plays a role here. 99.99%+ of the legal profession occurs outside the courtroom. You can't just circumvent procedural rules by giving a rousing speech about justice.
Probably an extreme example, but when litigating the worst case of my career, the pro se (representing himself) guy on the other side cited to the pledge of allegiance. That is, the pledge of allegiance promises justice "for all" and if the court denied his "motion," then there wouldn't be justice for him, therefore the motion should be granted. The underlying motion itself was similarly incoherent. How do you even start to argue against that kind of logic?
... so naturally the judge gave him leave to amend and set another hearing date.
phalseprofits ยท 135 points ยท Posted at 18:33:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So, I'm a lawyer and nobody else in my family has anything to do with anything in the legal field. Also my family is a fair amount of crazy. So this might sort of affect the kind of crap that they say.
Anyway, I can't tell you how many times there have been popular cases or lawsuits or what have you where I've had to explain something super basic to my family and they still don't get it.
For example, when the Casey Anthony trial was going on, my mom was so mad that they did not convict her of murder. When I explained the fact that the investigation and then subsequently the states case against her was really really shitty, she just said that juries should somehow know that despite all the instructions they are given they should still do "the right thing"
youlikeyoungboys ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 00:45:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The jury should do the right thing according to the law, not their wacky beliefs
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 19:06:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Well, she could be disagreeing with you about the morality of civil disobedience and vigilante justice, not just being thick. Sounds like the opposite of jury nullification.
Truth_or_dare_you ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:46:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Jury Ramification
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:26:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Aaaaand that is why the Seventh Amendment should be overturned
FuckBigots5 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 22:20:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hopeful lawyer here. (I'm still working on my undergrad) It can be good too for example jim crow era laws could be nullified by nonracist jurors, but thats a whole other can of "what ifs" and "coulds"
Also I could easily not know what I'm talking about as I have stated earlier I haven't completed my undergrad.
[deleted] ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 22:31:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
FuckBigots5 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 22:48:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
First protip I know.
and theoretically a law could be nullified if Jurors chose not to enforce it. I'm pretty sure (again I have only casually read over laws like REALLY NOT IN ANY CASE TO GIVE ADVICE) jurors have the right to just say "not guilty" if they disagree with the law. Its never happened before and if a juror shows any knowledge or plan to do so a judge can eliminate them but still is a theory.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 22:56:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
FuckBigots5 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:35:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
oooh.
salliek76 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:33:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
FYI, it has happened many, many times in the past, notably during the Jim Crow era, but unfortunately not as a way for non-racist jurors to nullify racist laws. What actually happened was that all-white juries simply refused to convict (or even indict) white defendants accused of crimes against a black victim. Some basic info on it here.
(In case you find it interesting, keep reading; I'm a nerd for this stuff.) Note especially the link to Emmett Till's lynching, for which the confessed killers were acquitted by an all-white jury. Ironically, the brutality of the murder and the subsequent acquittal brought national attention, and many people consider that incident to be the official beginning of the civil rights movement. Rosa Parks herself said that she was thinking of Emmett Till when she refused to move to the back of the bus, thus starting the year-long Montgomery bus boycott that eventually forced city lawmakers to outlaw segregated seating on buses (officially, anyway).
In the immediate aftermath of the bus desegregation, Klansmen bombed five black churches in the area, plus one white church whose leader had supported the boycott. They were arrested for the bombings but promptly acquitted by an all-white jury, despite having confessed to the crimes. (One of the bombers also confessed that he and three of the others had carried out the lynching of Willie Edwards, though they were never even indicted for that murder.)
During all this, Medgar Evers earned his stripes as a leader and organizer, and he would remain a prominent figure in the civil rights movement until his assassination in 1963. His murderer, Byron de la Beckwith, was tried twice for the murder the following year, but both ended in mistrials due to hung (all-white) juries. Of course, subsequent investigation revealed that both trials were crooked as shit. Beckwith would later serve time for a (thwarted) plot to murder a Jewish leader in New Orleans, but for the most part he was free for thirty years, until in 1994 he was again brought to trial and finally convicted--by a mixed-race jury--for Evers' murder.
As Longfellow said, "Though the mills of God grind slowly, yet they grind exceeding small; Though with patience He stands waiting, with exactness grinds He all."
karmapuhlease ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 06:00:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with you (though I'm also in undergrad, not a lawyer), but when did he do this? He explicitly said he isn't a lawyer, didn't make much of a legal assertion, and then reiterated that he isn't a lawyer.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:46:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Errol-Flynn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:13:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
/u/fuckbigots5 's comments came no where close to arising to the level of conduct where a state bar disciplinary or admissions committee would consider this the unauthorized practice of law. And no admissions committee would consider off the cuff legal opinions of a layman unauthorized practice of law even where that layman went on to later apply to law school.
Murgie ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:22:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's all you had to say. You could have condensed the entire comment down into those three words, and everybody would immediately known what you were talking about.
Those people are absolutely everywhere.
trullette ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:38:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And people on juries think just like that at times. What a system.
Helreaver ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:01:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm sure you have plenty of people looking for your expert opinion to reassert their feelings of injustice on the Steven Avery trial (Making a Murderer.)
peppers_ ยท 294 points ยท Posted at 16:47:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But what if you could..? The Grinder rests.
OneAndOnlyJackSchitt ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 20:34:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
The the ruling would be easily overturned by a higher court.
Rodrigo_Loco ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 21:09:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
deleted
OneAndOnlyJackSchitt ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 22:15:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Overruled. Continued outbursts like that will result in as contempt charge. Please remain silent or state your objections per procedure.
haldad ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 01:18:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
First time I've seen a Grinder reference outside /r/thegrinder.
Great show, definitely worth checking out.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:31:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I like the show. Don't like how much it makes me want to sign up for Grindr.
AwesomeScreenName ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 01:05:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I love that show, in large part because it displays how ridiculous TV lawyering really is. Not that what Fred Savage does is an accurate depiction of what a real lawyer does, but I love the way the show just laughs at the idea of a TV lawyer being able to just jump into real cases.
colorblind_goofball ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 18:03:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Or just break laws and get away with it.
I was watching How to get away with murder, and in the first episode the defense attorney presented an illegally obtained document in court, and when called out on it, got the judge to say it was admissible because it was relevant.
That shit wouldn't fly in real life, right?
SeedGoose ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:43:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Afaik in the US legal system, the jury is supposed to ignore inadmissable evidence, even if it is relevant.
How To Get Away With Murder is not very realistic when it comes to the law and legal practice.
colorblind_goofball ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:46:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, I'm aware. So presenting that evidence in the first place was already ethically dubious. But a judge couldn't say that illegally obtained evidence is admissible.
(could they?)
FireHazard11 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:45:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
From what I've heard other self professed lawyers on reddit say, even bringing up illegally obtained evidence is grounds for a mistrial. There are some things that a jury just can't unhear.
colorblind_goofball ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:47:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's what I've always believed. And they were trying to show her (the defense attorney) in the show to be some amazing attorney because she figured out a way to allow the evidence to be used... smh. No, she just blew the entire fucking thing. And in the first 5 minutes of the show they had her (she's also a law professor!) say "I'm going to teach you guys how to be real lawyers. We're going to be working in the courtroom in this class" (or some bullshit like that). Bitch, 99% of lawyers' work happens outside of the courtroom. The fuck you talking about?
Another TV show ruined because its stupidly unrealistic. Maybe I'm just overthinking it though.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:53:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You have preliminary hearings/evidentiary hearings where the judge will decide what is admissible. The jury isn't there for that.
SeedGoose ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 20:02:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not from the USA, and USA criminal law is pretty fucked up sometimes so it wouldn't suprise me if a judge could do that. The side which the evidence is used against has to object though, before the judge will declare the evidence inadmissable, especially in the USA were the judge is passive.
Correct me if I'm wrong though.
this_is_not_the_cia ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:37:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No. The other side must have an opportunity to review the document first. That's why we have discovery.
kaaz54 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:36:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not to mention that you can't have surprise witnesses. Both sides have the right to prepare for the witness list, and having random people just being witnesses would be a major dent in any semblance of fair trials.
this_is_not_the_cia ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:37:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yup. I'm a 3L whose taken evidence but not crim pro so I didn't want to comment on that.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:33:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Discovery is a one way street in criminal cases.
Unicorn_Ranger ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:17:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It depends on how it was obtained and if it would be found anyway from the natural course of an investigation.
Internet_Ghost ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:48:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, it could. Most of the people commenting below are looking at it from the wrong side. The illegality of how the evidence is procured is a due process and unconstitutional search and seizure issues. Who has these rights? The accused, not the prosecution.
If the prosecution were proffering this evidence up, and it was obtained through means that violated these rights, then yes. A timely objection could be made and the judge would rule the evidence to be inadmissible. (See Fruit from the the Poisonous Tree.) Unless, the prosecution can show that there is an exception to its inadmissibility. These exceptions would be (1) it was found from an independent source, (2) it would have been inevitably discovered despite the tainted source, (3) the chain of causation from the illegal action to the tainted evidence was so far removed that it was unlikely that the illegal action resulted in the procurement of the evidence, or (4) the good faith exception for government agents. Then the defense could make an objection on the relevancy if it got to the point (See below for that analysis.) But this is only for the prosecution proffering the evidence.
Now, let's look at the defense proffering the evidence. There's no objection that can be made about the illegal seizure of the evidence. There's no objection that can be made about violation of due process. So now the prosecution has the only objection of relevancy. Evidence is admissible if it's relevant. So, how do we tell what's relevant or not? It's a balancing test. Relevancy for the courts is whether the probative value of the evidence outweighs the danger of unfair prejudice, confusing the issues, misleading the jury, undue delay, wasting time, or needlessly presenting cumulative evidence. So, what is unfair prejudice then? That's typically when the evidence presented would tend to make the jury reach a decision on an emotional basis, rather than a factual one.
And if you didn't think it could get any more tricky, here comes surprise! The modern trend is that suprise is not a numerated danger anymore. That just means it's not listed in the rules anymore. It does not mean that the judge can not take it into consideration. But you have to look at that in the context of the evidence, how it's presented, and what kind of trial it is. I'm going to leave Civil trials out of this, so we'll analyze it for a criminal trial. If it's something earth shattering that the state brings up, the judge is going to be very critical of it. Why, because the are the one's bringing this case before the court and they owe that due process right to the accused remember? Here, the judge could rule that it's inadmissible because of surprise, however depending on the circumstances, he could allow it in or give a continuance. Merely allowing it in will probably happen a lot less because the defense WILL move for a mistrial and will appeal a denial of that motion. Now, let's look at the defense side. Surprise evidence! The prosecution objects but as to what? They don't have a strong due process argument to make. So, they most likely make a judicial economy argument (gotta keep the wheels of justice moving) and that the defense is a cottonheaded ninny muggins for not giving them that evidence. Depending on how big the surprise is the judge will most likely let it in or let it in after a continuance. Why? Because the prosecution will not likely ask for a mistrial because of judicial economy (a trial is expensive and time consuming) and this time is probably their best chance at winning since older cases make worse trials for the prosecution.
Okay, so let's wrap this altogether then. Defense proffers surprise evidence. Prosecution objects. They don't have due process or illegal search and seizure so they go for surprise. So, they go for relevance and say it's too dangerous because of the ways listed above. The judge weighs the probative value and the danger and finds it's more probative than dangerous because it's a criminal trial and it tends to show the Defendant's innocence. So, we have relevant evidence and because relevant evidence is admissible, the evidence can be proffered.
That is the analysis that actually went down. Show gloss over those nuances but that's how it typically works. There some more rules but that gives you the gist of it.
Now, having said that. That doesn't mean that illegally obtained evidence gets a free ride. Why? Because someone out there broke a law to get that information. That doesn't stop the prosecution from questioning it's authenticity (which is another way to get evidence thrown out, but that's another economy sized can of worms). So, the defense could potentially have to explain how this evidence was obtained and then charges could be brought against whoever committed the crime and the lawyer could be found to have breached the rules of professional conduct and be subjected to criminal court and censures from their bar.
TLDR: Defense can probably get away with it. Prosecution probably can't. However, Defense could get in trouble other ways.
inspectorseantime ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:38:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm about to finish season one and I'm only watching it cause of all the beautiful people (Dean Thomas, the Gryffindor is in it) and its a pretty good drama. If I can learn a thing or two about the law, why not?
ComradeGibbon ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:54:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'll break my own rule about assuming I know anything about law. Probably admissible because it's not a due process violation when the defense does it.
That said a retired lawyer told me in theory law has theory. Really law has precedence. With theory you can say, based on these principals and logic, blah blah blah. Reality. 'Based on what we usually do in the case, blah blah blah' So you should be really cautious unless you have detailed experience with the area in question.
[deleted] ยท 42 points ยท Posted at 16:49:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
GrollTheLicker ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:33:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sustained!
Yog_Kothag ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 19:24:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My favorite was a plaintiff declaring before the court that the gold fringe of the court's flag meant that the Bankruptcy court she was in was international in jurisdiction and was governed by maritime law and thus she had to be judged not as a person, but as a vessel.
She declared herself a boat.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 22:10:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Did her case hold water?
Yog_Kothag ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 22:21:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Her case included a claim against her creditors, her trustee, the bailiff of the court and the judge and included a demand for damages, on top of forgiveness of her debt, in the amount of $10,000,000 a piece.
Her bankruptcy was dismissed and she was barred from filing for a year and a day. I've followed up on her unofficially and she has proceeded to continue to file each year. Each time she draws the same judge, goes through the same motions, and when the judge realizes who she is, her bankruptcy gets dismissed again.
...
......
.........you magnificent bastard, it took me this long into typing a response for me to realize what you wrote.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:22:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
:D
hewhoreddits6 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:32:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wait finish up the story! Is there more? Technically this is all legal, but did she find a loophole in the system or something?
Yog_Kothag ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:43:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, there was no loophole. She was explicitly moving against the judge's orders and could have easily been found in contempt each time the judge deigned to notice that this same crazy woman was filing for bankruptcy. But what would that have done? Crazy met with logic is just going to plow forward on the crazy train. Fine her? She'll just throw it back into the pot and demand a million dollars compensation. In specie. (yeah, that was also part of her original demand)
Internet_Ghost ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:37:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, what is it with people who want to use Admiralty Law in crazy ways? I had a client who straight up told me that he wasn't subjected to the laws of our state or the U.S. because he had trademarked his name using Admiralty Law so that he was an independent citizen. I could not get him to understand that one, none of what he said made any sense in regards to Patent Law or Admiralty Law and that two EVEN, and a mean a big EVEN, if he could do that, he couldn't get the benefits of our state and federal laws and not be subjected to them.
hollaback_girl ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:38:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Read up on "sovereign citizens" sometime. The "gold fringe on the flag" bit is one of their main go tos.
PaulTagg ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:30:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
postpone the case, swap the flag before they return, bang boom. problem solved.
DadJokesFTW ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:37:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Congratulations, you were exposed to one of the best examples of the "sovereign man" believers. They're entertaining once or twice, but they get old after while. Especially when you find out they'll do things like recording a bogus million dollar lien on attorneys' homes because they're crazy.
Yog_Kothag ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:54:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, I collect these nutjobs in a folder that my Business would probably I rather not have record of - my official Crazies. Included is the man from Nevada who was absolutely certain that taking a letter we sent, turning it 45 degrees, signing his name across it, and sending it back would be a sufficient manner to pay off his debt.
He lost that case.
PaulTagg ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:31:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
...whats the rational behind that? I mean what did he thought that did?
A_Meat_Popsicle ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:17:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Does the pledge of allegiance even carry any legal weight? I would assume it's as relevant to a court of law as the star spangled banner.
MakeupMyMind ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 18:24:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Of course it doesn't.
Crabrubber ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:28:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Does the "Star-Spangled Banner" specify if the flag had a gold fringe?
the_tiniest_ninja ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 19:39:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Only when flown on a boat. Conveniently enough, I happen to define my house, car and self as a boat, good luck legal system I've tricked you.
definitely_not_cylon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:55:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No and even if it did, "justice for all" is vague enough that it would be impossible to rule on the nuts and bolts of the legal profession based on it. There is, for instance, no magic to there being x number of days to respond to a complaint-- it's just what seemed like a reasonable balance between giving the defendant enough time without dragging things out too much. Once x has been decided, though, then that in general is the rule that should be followed... again, not because there's any particular magic to x, but just because it prevents re-litigating basic issues every single case. The issue "pledge of allegiance" guy was arguing was a bit more arcane and involved timing of discovery, but it's in the same general category.
It is similar in that sense to traffic rules. There's no inherent magic to green meaning go and red meaning stop, but traffic is much easier if everybody observes those same conventions.
So, "justice for all, therefore I should be able to drive through a red light" is as coherent as "justice for all, I should win my procedural motion."
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:27:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So, what's the counter?
matroxman11 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:17:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Jeff Winger might disagree with you about the rousing speeches bit
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:10:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But what about all the Law & Order I've watched? /s
Actually, I wonder how accurate Law & Order actually is. It seems they actually lose the case a decent amount of the time.
officerkondo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:17:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Was he a sovereign citizen? I have to deal with those from time to time in my banking/finance cases.
vaminos ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:19:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Damages is a lawyer show where they do a very good job of illustrating exactly this.
VOMIT_ON_MY_DICK ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:40:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I OBJECT!
youlikeyoungboys ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:41:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Good judge.
Ronari048 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:50:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
First semester of Law School, this is exactly what our lecturer told us. All my Boston Legal hopes and dreams, curse you James Spader you charismatic bastard!
buruzn09 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:22:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Those are the worst. I had a guy cite the King James Bible and the Magna Carta before going on to argue that he didn't meet the statutory definition of a "person." I was so dumbfounded I barely knew how to respond and it was just a bond argument.
guto8797 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:56:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ace attorney taught me that being a lawyer is all about getting to the crime scene before the cops and steal everything that isn't bolted down, and steal the stuff that is bolted down anyway
mideon2000 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:11:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fuck that. He knew when the court date was and he brought bullshit he WASTED everyone's time. Wasting time and money.
SnakeDocMaster ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:39:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Attorney here. Pro pers are the most fun at the Demurrer stage, and complete nightmares any time after.
duckshoe2 ยท 143 points ยท Posted at 17:00:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not just Reddit. People watch a bad YouTube about the Constitution and suddenly have an expertise rivalling that of a defense lawyer with twenty years' experience. Then the job of representing them turns into a struggle to mitigate their bad decisions. The State is already trying to put you in jail, why are you helping?
4536b ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 22:50:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Some people still naively believe in things like justice and right and wrong.
duckshoe2 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 23:48:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
While people inject these trite, ill-defined concepts into the discussion, they are never the real issue. Much more commonly, the defendant believes that if (for example) a statute requires the state to prove that the defendant acted "intentionally," they can't be convicted without a confession of that fact. Explain the difference between "direct" and "circumstantial" evidence until you are blue, but they know what stuff means, and you're just trying to get them to plead guilty because you're paid by the state, and what about the Uniform Commercial Code, huh? (A guy in jail told them it mattered and what am I going to do about it...) Self-destructive stupidity.
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 16:43:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:51:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I recommend /r/badlegaladvice
SnakeDocMaster ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:40:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Except when they block actual attorneys trying to clear up the confusion...
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:51:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I recommend /r/badlegaladvice
blivet ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:00:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I really wish the actual attorneys had some kind of flair, though. I'm not interested in what some random guy thinks OP ought to do unless either they have relevant real-world experience, or they're a fucking lawyer. Just having an opinion doesn't really cut it.
KingBooRadley ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 19:02:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lawyer here. Many trained lawyers should not be practicing law, never mind the untrained. stares down at tasseled loafers
SnakeDocMaster ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:43:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Attorney here. Currently defending a case against a Plaintiffs attorney who COPIED HIS COMPLAINT FROM A WEBSITE. The Plaintiff's attorney copied the complaint. My first demurrer won, and the judge gave him very specific instructions for a FAC. He didn't listen, and my second demurrer is coming up for hearing in a few weeks...
KingBooRadley ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:49:11 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Undoubtedly it's his first class action and he's decided to go it alone. I used to do class action and saw this a few times. It was always a train wreck. Once a guy file to harass a company or get free stuff or something. What he didn't count on was that the judge took the rights of the class very seriously and wouldn't let him just drop the case when he realized that he had opened Pandora's box. That dude had to do hundreds more hours of work and in the end got no money for his efforts.
SnakeDocMaster ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:22:43 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not a class action, unfortunately. Some guy trying to invalidate a loan he defaulted on, and the trustee sale already happened.
We made the loan, and sold it off. Some other company did the trustee sale.
Not our bag of rocks.
RumpleOfTheBaileys ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:12:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Self reps are the bane of my existence in litigation, but I can make bank correcting what they fuck up in solicitor-side work.
The irritating thing is that people assume lawyers are just well-dressed conmen who charge a king's ransom for a few sheets of paper or a speech clients could deliver themselves. Never mind the years of university and training to figure out the basic concepts or how to actually do these tasks. It's why the freemen and other OPCAs draw in the gullible and angry. I thank the lord every day that I haven't had to deal with them yet.
DadJokesFTW ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:43:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lucky you. I've dealt with several. They are mildly entertaining for a very short time. Then they're a nightmare.
Yog_Kothag ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 19:26:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
::checks username:: yeah, look's legit, boys.
Urinal_CupCake ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:43:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I specialize in bird law
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:30:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I will go toe to toe with you on bird law
jdonnel ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:49:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wait I have an idea... BIRD INTERNET!
LessLikeYou ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:36:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Filibuster
InfantStomper ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:56:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's hearsay. You totally besmirched me dude, I demand satisfaction.
flamup ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:46:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You fool, you forgot to deny joinder!
InfantStomper ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:33:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm pleading the 5th, sir. I know my rights.
senatorskeletor ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:40:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I actually don't think it's difficult to be a lawyer (and I've been a litigator for about eight years), but it does require a ton of accumulated knowledge and a dedication to really learning new material.
[deleted] ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 21:29:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a lawyer, too, and sometimes I feel like a fraud because of how easy it is. Then I will speak to a friend or family member, who is an intelligent, educated person, but who is not a lawyer, about a legal issue. Then I realize how much I do know and how much better I am than a non-lawyer at analyzing a situation from a legal perspective. I think because the process of becoming an experienced lawyer is so long and gradual you don't notice the changes taking place in yourself.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:36:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
tempolevy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:03:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm going to law school next year and I hope this is the case. That's basically how my undergrad degree in philosophy was. It's not about what you argue, but how you argue it.
Internet_Ghost ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:00:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I agree. The individual parts of being a lawyer is not that difficult. But being able to put those pieces together to handle legal issues is the key. You get that with education and experience. Law School basically gives you the frame work of how to analyze a legal issue and how to use that frame work to litigate a matter. Actually doing the analyzing and litigating an issue is how you build that knowledge and can streamline through your experiences.
It frustrates me to no end when someone asks me, "can I do this" or "can they do that" about legal issues I've never sat down and took the time to work through. They have no clue at the amount of time it would take me to research and come up with a general opinion on that matter. And that's only if there are enough specific facts to the scenario. Then comes the "Well, so-and-so said or did this and this happened." Okay, great. Now what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
From what I've seen, most people think lawyers do some type of mental chess in their head and come up to the exact outcome of a case within minutes of hearing a basic set of facts. They definitely wouldn't be satisfied to know that the 5 minutes I just spent explaining the law was the extent of what I could remember from law school or the bar exam and was probably overly general and wouldn't help in the first place. Or that I would have to look up the applicable statutory law (sometimes actually using google) and actually read it to see what it says because I can't keep the language verbatim in my head at all times. Then pray that I had a book covering the applicable case law so that I didn't have to do a massive and expensive search on Westlaw or Lexis and then read and organize it to see where we're at currently with the law. And then, when you're done with all that work can you confidently say you don't know how trying that case is going to fair because you don't have all the discovery yet. But doing all that builds up your knowledge and that's something that the average person can't get.
An interesting google story: One time had a guy who was at my office as soon as I got there one morning. His son had been arrested and denied bond. It was the day before Thanksgiving and if he didn't get out he'd violate his custody order to have his kid on Thanksgiving. I had no clue why he was denied bond. I straight up had to google it. Turns out there was a cut out in the bond statute that specifically required consent from the solicitor for a magistrate judge to set bond for that particular crime. Now anybody could could have googled that and figured out the probably. But not anybody could call the solicitor (and get them to answer), get their consent, then call a magistrate judge (and again get them to answer), get the magistrate to agree to see their client that day, immediately get a transfer order, and have him out on a PR bond before lunch.
hewhoreddits6 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:38:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's probably how it is with most fields. You don't think you have that much specialized knowledge, and it seems so easy to you. Then when you talk about your work with someone who doesn't work in your field, you find out just how far you've come in your education and how much you really know. For example, I see a lot of guys on reddit who just talk about how accounting is playing with Excel; even more prevalent is when IT people talk about how their job is mostly googling and telling people to reset the computer. They don't realize that while it seems easy to them because they do it every day, to the rest of us it's highly specialized knowledge that we weren't trained for so we can't possibly understand.
ITS_MAJOR_TOM_YO ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:34:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Someone just posted on askreddit that if you act reasonably, the law will be cool with whatever you do. That's pretty much what people think.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:22:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
necrotic_fasciitis ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:14:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Whenever a police officer tries to stop you, all you have to do is say "I do not consent" and you can walk away free and clear.
carahbob ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:01:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a lawyer is hard, so it always irritates me when people say "I love to argue, I should be a lawyer." I'm not a lawyer at all, but I'm not sure that's how it exactly works, it seems much more complex than that. I want to study law, so people assume I love to argue, when in reality it isn't so. I just really love law for some reason, and I wanna learn as much as I can from it. What people see on tv is just that for the most part, tv.
BIG_BOOTY_BISHES ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:44:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've watched Liar Liar. That makes me good enough to be a lawyer.
MrChris_H ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:17:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Stop breaking the law, asshole!!
starkraver ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:35:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It is staggering how people think that what they think should happen is he same thing as the law.
invisiblestripeyguy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:47:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know exactly what you mean! A few people I know will often pull out the 'It's (should be) the law' argument to justify their rage at things as trivial as the exact positioning of garbage bins (to the millimetre), or arbitrary like the inclusions/reliability you can expect with tech purchases.
DanielMcLaury ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:28:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, that is kind of the principle of a democratic society...
starkraver ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:50:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That a person gets to decide what the law is themselves with zero regard for what everybody else has agreed are the rules?
DanielMcLaury ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:28:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, clearly that's what I meant.
starkraver ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:13:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I really didn't think that it was what you meant. But it is what you said, in context.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:10:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
MakeupMyMind ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:25:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not sure if srs.
[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 18:28:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
MakeupMyMind ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:31:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Gotcha. I'm a second semester 3L and I hear this shit all the time from people who are dead serious.
dpash ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:25:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can say for certain that they don't know what they're doing.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:29:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The difference though is that lawyers have a good understanding of how a particular court works, because they probably represent clients in it all the time. They know which judges are good to pull and which ones they should refuse. They know the tactics and legal maneuvering the other side is going to pull.
I mean, a smart person could certainly probably make a really good legal case, do a good job calling witnesses, submitting evidence, making arguments, examining witnesses, et cetera, but unless they've been in court on many different similar cases, they are going to be blindsided by a ton of procedural motions that they won't be prepared to deal with, and they are not necessarily going to pull a judge that is sympathetic to them representing themselves and willing to give them leeway.
If you are going to represent yourself, at the very least, you need to retain a lawyer to help make sure you are doing all the paperwork and procedural stuff correctly.
Sablelyn ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:52:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Work in a courthouse. Can confirm.
Sandman_SlimAZ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:54:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
/r/amibeingdetained
Skitz-Scarekrow ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:06:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Dump her, lawyer up, hit the gym."
-Every Reddit Attorney Ever
ProfLiar ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:30:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Every single time someone says the words "I'll see you in court!" or "I'll sue you!", I giggle.
First, no.....you probably won't. I won't be representing myself on anything, so unless I have to be there....nope. You wouldn't even see me in small claims court.
Court sucks, even if you are "being paid" to be there and it's technically your job.
If things actually go to trial, that usually means a lot more work/time in the office....because like being in other meetings I can't respond to emails and calls, so I get behind in the usual nonsense/office part of the job.
If you think jury duty is miserable, it could be worse.
monalisafrank ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:44:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"My parents told me I would be a great lawyer because I'm so good at arguing"-everyone ever
Shnooky6 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:21:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My mom is a lawyer and any time I win a simple disagreement with her I feel like a super attorney
KaseTheAce ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:24:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Judge Horace Leland: [after Gus has just impressed everyone in the courtroom with his legal skills] Where did you go to law school?
Burton 'Gus' Guster: Just sixth grade law, Your Honor. But it was an accelerated program.
Dodgiestyle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:32:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just the forms alone...! Jesus Christ, my eyes cross just looking at some of the simplest forms.
homoredditus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:23:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So should I talk to the police?
akharon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:54:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What's funny is that you can have these videos, and people are convinced that "that is the law, period." There are common litigation cases where you can put 5 lawyers behind it and get 5 different arguments, outcomes, and opinions.
wowzeemissjane ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:55:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"You're aaaaaaaa crook Captain Hook.."
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:07:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Objection your honor"
"On what grounds do you object?"
"You know, on the grounds of like, fuck the cops and stuff right?"
Vomath ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:07:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
AM I BEING DETAINED OR AM I FREE TO GO?!!
amolad ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:17:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I just came across this on Reddit. Some idiot was so sure he was right--throwing out legal terms he has no real idea of what they mean-- I had to stop him and ask him if was Steve Harvey.
That level of stupid.
r_301_f ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:48:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Are there really people who think being a lawyer is easy? 7 years of school (4 years bachelor 3 years law), then you have to pass a test famous for being hard as fuck, and only then are you qualified to start working...in one state
SillyPsymin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:26:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Don't forget the hard as fuck test to get into law school.
tinker_tailor17 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:50:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So true. Being a lawyer is also very unlike academic law - much of it is being able to compromise, not 'winning ' arguments by being aggressive and hostile.
SillyPsymin ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:26:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Settling is a win!
Slimjeezy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:50:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My sister is an accomplished lawyer. I could never, ever get to her level. Mainly because I have the attention span of a dog and find reading somewhat of a chore.
That girl can read
f_ranz1224 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:06:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Redditors have an odd habit of thinking they are doctors, psychologists, economists, political analysts, etc. Wikipedia and a documrntary will do that
dpash ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:29:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Part of the problem is that people think certain words in a legal context mean the same thing as they do in common usage.
HopalikaX ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:00:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That, sir, is libel!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:37:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I would kiss you on the mouth right now.
thesymmetrybreaker ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:33:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Better call Saul!
Mirgo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:36:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, as someone who has self-represented before in court, you don't always need a lawyer. That's not to say I could do as good a job, just that I could do a good-enough job and I'm too poor to retain a lawyer most of the time.
Also they were small claims cases, so you can't even bring a lawyer, but I still appreciated their consultation.
myerrrs ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:01:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be honest, being a lawyer isn't hard. Literally everything you need to know is written down somewhere.
The hard part, and it's the same for a great many things, is dedicating the time and effort. That's something many people are very incapable of.
rylos ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:39:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know a fellow who's taught some kind of law / legal classes at the local university for a living. He thinks that he could take on any large corporation on about anything and win. We just doesn't get it, he teaches law, thos guys DO law. Real law. Every day, all day.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:50:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, law is needlessly complicated by tradition and older laws.
ChristofChrist ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:13:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think it's mostly just spreading basic rights when interacting with police officers. The rights, how they can be used, and purpose behind using them is pretty simple and a large majority of people are ignorant about it.
Brio_ ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:13:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I disagree. I don't think anyone really says "It would be easy to be a lawyer," it's just that they read a bit about something and think they understand the nuance of the law they're talking about.
DivideEtImpera8 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:22:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yup. People seem to think law is so easy, cause you know, it's all written down. Everyone is an expert, everyone gives advice.
You know what people? Law is one of the hardest things especially as an education, right up there with medicine and engineering.
Also, I hate the fact that people(in my country) think it's okay just to ask questions about juridical problems. It's not fucking free. The education is hard, the work is hard. I'm not giving you free advice just because in your opinon I can just tell you because "I know it anyway" and "It's not hard to just say something".
Also, people with bullshit degrees in sociology or fucking journalism or something thinking they are a fucking expert and arguing. You, yeah you. The guy who argues with me about the problems of the juridical system or about politics while you hold a high school diploma. Fuck you.
Nerdyredeyejedi ยท 990 points ยท Posted at 12:28:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Comedy
inceptor123 ยท 854 points ยท Posted at 13:12:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Specifically stand-up comedy. Often times people don't realize how much work a comedian has to put into a set to make it performance ready. A successful stand-up show isn't just a list of funny jokes, it is a vignette of carefully times stories and observations, placed so that the audience is kept entertained and captivated. A good comedian is just as good of a writer, as they are a story teller.
Megatron_McLargeHuge ยท 285 points ยท Posted at 16:34:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No one transitions into stand-up from acting. Stand-up comics can branch out into other fields but no one seems to successfully go the other way. That tells you how hard it is.
Caged_Chicken ยท 154 points ยท Posted at 17:47:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
While I'm not his biggest fan, Ricky Gervais achieved success through standup, after acting/TV writing. Supposedly a lot of people don't like this, because he never "earned his stripes."
IngrownPubez ยท 46 points ยท Posted at 18:07:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
yeah but Ricky started in a 2-man new wave pop duo
Caged_Chicken ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 18:25:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
True, that's a much more obvious gateway towards stand-up.
IngrownPubez ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 08:46:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I just realized "2-man duo" is redundant..
Dragon_DLV ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:42:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So did Lord Stokeworth
maxpenny42 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:12:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like there are other people. Like the guy who played Ron Swanson. I don't think he was originally a stand up but he wound up having a Netflix special. But of course that was pretty terrible so it's not necessarily evidence of it going well. Just that it happens.
HobbitFoot ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:35:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
He had writing experience, and that is what likely made him a good stand up comedian.
Jaytalvapes ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:21:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
People hate on Ricky. I still think he's super funny.
Not Tim Minchin funny, but up there.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 20:59:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
childhoodgrandeur ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:29:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Seinfeld was a stand-up for years before he got his tv show.
americanmook ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:46:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
He had the same!e act for like 20 years.
Look_Alive ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 18:47:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Donald Glover did.
InvaderSM ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 21:32:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Donald Glover is possibly the most unfairly talented person on this planet.
inspectorseantime ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 09:44:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Which is balanced out by his moniker donglover.
CKtheFourth ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:39:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Donald Glover was doing sketch comedy before he was acting. And, yes, he's also unfairly talented at apparently everything.
Gtffyugfeuhgf ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:15:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah but doesn't stand up pay like nothing? I'm not saying it's not really difficult, but if you've already established your career in something else there's not much incentive to do stand up. If there were then you might see it more.
shanedoth ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:24:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ken Jeong somehow transitioned from being a doctor to a successful standup comic.
Shiftkgb ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:25:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah but my understanding was that open-mics and what not was something he already did, he just eventually blew up. It's not like he just tried it one night and was amazing.
CKtheFourth ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:41:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Joel McHale is the only person I can think of who's done it successfully (which is the exception the proves the rule). From what I remember him saying on podcasts, he was an actor first, then got into hosting as well as acting, then into stand up on top of all that.
Loads of people have done it unsuccessfully. Dustin Diamond (Screech from Saved by the Bell) is the biggest example of this.
FlyPengwin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:49:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I may be naive, but I imagine that's because of the paycheck difference.
dustyoldbones ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:26:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There is a tv show about a stand up comedian in which that comedian is the main character of the show.
clearedmycookies ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:32:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Mick Foley
TheKakeMaster ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:05:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Eddie Murphy.
DanielMcLaury ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 20:33:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Eddie Murphy started out in standup. He got the SNL job because of his standup.
Draav ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 17:34:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think you mixed up your first sentence
CashMikey ยท 34 points ยท Posted at 17:21:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A few weeks ago on here, people acted like I was being dumb when I said comedians who do crowd work practice it, like a lot. People really don't understand that stand up comedy is a shit ton of work.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:05:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They must not watch it then, because I feel like a LOT of stand-up comedians talk about how hard it is and how many painful bombings you have to get to before you get one good night. Stand-up comedians voluntarily run the gauntlet every time they go to work, that really impresses me!
Edit: typed to, meant they
Darth_Yohanan ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:37:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There are people that think stand-up is easy? That has to be one of the most difficult performance jobs to successfully make a living doing. Nowhere near as hard as Broadway, though.
JoeyJoeJoeJrShab ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:11:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Pfft, you just practice on twitter. That's how I practice, and now I'm hilarious. I mean, I haven't tried transitioning from twitter to stage yet, but I'm sure it'll be super-easy with all the online practice I've had.
galactapotamus ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 15:23:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Two professions I have never done but have a massive amount of respect for when done well: stand-up comedian and farmer.
thetexassweater ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:15:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
what about a farmer who does stand-up?
galactapotamus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:19:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Closest thing I can think of is Jeff Foxworthy and I'm not a fan.
thetexassweater ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:40:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
you're right, he's garbage.
Jabonex ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 14:46:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I agree with you. Most of the comedians i've seen tell storie of their own life but with humors and they do very very well at this :)
Colopty ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:37:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Their stories are mostly fiction, though. Relatable fiction, but still fiction.
crl0114 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:04:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wouldnt say they were fiction but exaggerated versions of the story. Most stories stand ups tell have an element of truth to them.
Colopty ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:39:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Like I said, mostly fiction. Like 99% fiction or something. Comedians needs to come up with new material consistently, they can't just walk around for long enough for something scandalous to happen that they can then exaggerate. Take the salt and pepper diner story. Yes, he was probably at that diner once and yes there was a jukebox. He may or may not have gone with a friend. The playing of all those songs and the outrageous reactions though? Completely made up.
Or in the case of "the machine", he probably hasn't been in Russia or even taken a class. He may have read a news article about organized crime in Russia while eating his breakfast bagel and decided that he could make a funny story about how he befriended them.
bewilderedhill ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:39:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Umm, nope. Bert Kreischer actually did all that shit.
Colopty ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:34:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How can you know?
bewilderedhill ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:18:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Through actually meeting and talk to Bert, and from the countless people that I know that have worked with him, and the fact his entire reputation lies on it considering he has called others out for stealing his stories before (Jay Mohr).
Colopty ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:23:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Story time?
bewilderedhill ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:24:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nooooope. I like my anonymity.
Colopty ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:26:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No need to say who you are, just talk about how the experience was or some shit.
bewilderedhill ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:31:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is going to come off sounding like I'm being a dick, but I don't mean it that way. We met, we talked, he's nice, that was it. That's usually what happens with my celebrity interactions. I wish it was more interesting :(
Colopty ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:52:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That doesn't make you sound like a dick, it just means you're not very good at telling stories.
bewilderedhill ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:20:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Or because I know "I met a guy, we exchanged pleasantries, small talk, and discussed a mutual friend then I left 15 minutes later because it was late" isn't an exciting story.
Wanna hear about that time I saw Neve Campbell in a coffee shop? I was behind her in line, she ordered a blueberry scone, I got a black coffee, then I went home. Real life is boring.
Colopty ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:34:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is reddit, make something up. And it better end with you two getting married and living happily ever after.
americanmook ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:51:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Bill burr said himself of he had to write about his life it'd just be about him in the airport and on stage.
42Cosmonaut ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:32:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm an improv comedian, and it's really funny how everyone perceives improv as being crazy difficult. Honestly, it doesn't take much to be funny in improv, especially compared to stand-up. And yet, everyone sees improv as something they could never do, but stand-up as something totally within their grasp.
I sure as fuck couldn't do stand-up.
inceptor123 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:27:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But as an improv artist, your job is easy for you, sure, because you probably have a gift for quick wit, and association of language, but for others, I could imagine stand-up being easier. Writers. People who's ideas develop over time. They are different skills, and a majority of people can't do either. Don't cut yourself short. Improve is really hard for a lot of people.
bewilderedhill ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:40:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Yes, and?
As a stand-up, I found improv was difficult for me because I had to learn to let go of control and let my scene partner(s) lead, because I'm so used to dictating the pace and where things go.
However, the more I looked at it like riffing bits in the parking lot of a gig with other comics, the easier it was.
Scrappy_Larue ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:29:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And even the very best have to endure a lot of bad sets in order to come up with the polished one you saw on HBO. It's constant trial and error. The pain of jokes, or even an entire set falling flat is something few people could handle.
Gustavius040210 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:28:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've always had an admiration for good stand up comedians.
Last time we went to the Jukebox an opener quite literally read from a list of unsuccessful jokes.
I dunno if he meant to make it a awkward experience, but man was it bad.
bewilderedhill ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:40:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Congrats. You've witnessed what they call "alt-comedy".
McIgglyTuffMuffin ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:53:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My one neighbor has been doing stand up for a few years now and she's gotten pretty awesome so far. The only problem is when she's talking to you now you don't know if she's telling you a real story or if she's testing out a joke on you.
She's always working. Even when she doesn't appear to be.
bewilderedhill ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:48:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a comedian, and that's one of the tougher things. If I'm being funny, people think it's material, but no...I'm just talking how I'd normally talk.
If conversation leads towards a topic I have in my act, I'll usually preface it with, "I have a joke about...,"
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:04:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think anyone underestimates the difficulty of that. If they do, they are foolish.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:18:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
See: Bill Burr
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:53:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It is beyond just being "funny". It's easy for a person to be funny in real life situations but with stand up you are all alone- you have to set yourself up for every joke and make the entire set seem to flow organically. That's what makes it so tough.
JoeyJoeJoeJrShab ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:10:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Actually, this is why Mitch Hedberg's stuff is utterly amazing. In no obvious way does his material involve telling stories, transition material, or any of that other stuff. And yet, his stuff was pure genius.
Jimpieish ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:01:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Who the hell thinks stand up is easy? Stand up looks like one of the toughest things you could choose.
JesusSavesAtWalMart ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:00:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When I took the stand up class at Caroline's Comedy Club in NYC, one of the attendees asked if there were any good books to read on the subject. The instructor gave one recommendation, Stephen King's On Writing, a book that has nothing and everything to do with stand up comedy.
greywar777 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:23:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My wife and I were at a stand up comedy club on amateur night. She dared me to go try it. I told her "you first". it was brutal. She bombed so bad. I did a little better, but it was just a story about my sister using a taser and knife to hunt deer. Worked OK, mostly cause its true. I can't imagine trying to do it for a living. I only have so many stories.
fabulousmountain ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:57:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
that shit's hard. Especially, if you're not a big name and people will laugh, no matter on how good your jokes are. Had only 2 occasions in a local community (1. time ca. 50, 2. time around 250 people) and the feeling when a joke doesn't crack as you'd imangine it is just aweful.
It's as 'risky' as rewarding imo.
lntoTheSky ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:22:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Really? I mean, there are a ton of great stand-up comedians in my town. Just go to the Dead Crow on Fridays and you can see them perform for free. Too bad the crowd always sucks and doesn't laugh at any of their jokes, though.
Nerdyredeyejedi ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 13:14:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes.
CarlosTheBoss ยท 87 points ยท Posted at 13:47:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Actually when I asked a group of friend what would be the hardest job to pull off professionally this is an answer a few of them came up with, it's not something a lot of people say 'when I grow up I'm going to be a comedian'. Even if you try to hard to be funny it quite often backfires and creates silence.
EsQuiteMexican ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:39:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When I'm being a little bitch about something that bothers me, people often tell me I should do stand-up. Apparently I complain in a funny way. When I try to be intentionally funny, though... you can hear the grass grow.
I'll never do stand-up.
Ucantalas ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:03:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And even when you're good at it, it's still not going to be a viable career for most people. You don't go from open mic nights to late night talk shows overnight, even if you are absolutely hilarious. There's a lot of legwork finding places to be funny at before you get known, and even then you might never hit a position where you can live off of stand up.
AlphakirA ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:18:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Tell that to actors and port stars. They all seem to keep trying and failing at it. I think the stupid people of the world often think it's an easy profession, that's why there's so many hecklers.
Parawhat8902 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:47:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Funny enough, for as long as I can remember it's all I've ever wanted to be. I've done quite a few tough jobs, security, military commercial fishing, minor bit of logging and now I'm off to paramedic now.
me_is_mo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:16:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's true. I tried to make joke with a customer the other day and she told me I should stop being so negative. Not everybody has that natural timing
HailSithisMeh ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:01:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I agree. I love thinking that I can do stand up comedy because I make all my friends laugh. However I then think about how I suck at presenting and basically freeze. This thought causes me to have a whole new level of respect for stand up comics.
Skitz-Scarekrow ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:10:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My friends tell me all the time I should do stand up. I'm only funny in conversation when I can play off other people and push their buttons. Stand up is way beyond my ability.
Nerdyredeyejedi ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:38:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've been told that many times as well, I know I wouldn't be good. My humor is off the top of my head, based off what other friends say. Very quick with the witty jokes. But, stand up is so tough. Kudos to all stand up comedians
madzerglin ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:18:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is beyond 100% true.
Source: Am comedian.
Nerdyredeyejedi ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:16:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I respect your talent
barristonsmellme ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:47:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They could be shite.
Nerdyredeyejedi ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:12:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, but they could be very good. I respect him and his talent anyway
barristonsmellme ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:20:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I like your outlook!
Nerdyredeyejedi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:44:37 on January 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks:)
ParameciaAntic ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:02:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It looks extremely difficult to me.
Rhueh ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:02:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Totally with you on that. A friend from school tried to become a stand up comic. I was at a comedy club one night when he stunk the place out. They even turned out the stage lights on him. I felt so bad for him. That has to be one of the most difficult careers to get into, psychologically.
Nerdyredeyejedi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:12:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's so rough
americanmook ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:59:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They turn the lights off when you run out of time. Trust me, they'll gladly let you die for a full five minutes.
banjoman53 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:50:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've been doing open mics for a year now and it's crazy how many people tell me they could never do it. Or that it's "the hardest job in the world"
kaiju-taxi ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:15:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know if people realize how much work it must take to create a routine, and tell jokes. Most of the time in real life, people just tell jokes they've heard from some other source, but comedians have to come up with their own gimmicks. That must take a lot.
barristonsmellme ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:51:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A place by ours opened and started an open mic comedy night and I was like "yeah fuck it, i'll give it a go. It's free, it's five minutes, and if ifuck up I just don't go back."
Started to write everything down and I thought it was hilarious. Then I read back through it and just died.
I know full well i can be funny.It's easy to adjust on the fly to how different people react and make them laugh. It's the only reason people talk to me. But trying to work any of that down into any semblance of a routine? Jesus fucking christ it's hard. It's been like a year and I've got an introduction. "hi."
MisterTwindle ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:02:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My funny moments happen by accident.
seppo2015 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:42:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So true. Comedy is the rarest, most difficult thing to get right in a script or play. Then getting it into a genuine performance adds another impossible hurdle.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:44:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Did you make a list?
Nerdyredeyejedi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:51:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A list? For what?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:53:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because I'm riddled with it.
vajohnaldischarge ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:13:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
lol!
ARatherOddOne ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:17:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Comedians have social smarts that I wish I had. I could never do comedy and I tip my hat to them.
Nerdyredeyejedi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:46:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I tip my dick to em Lol they are brave performers. Stand up or acting is very difficult.
ba203 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:26:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ugh, yes. Amatuer improv groups everywhere. Universally not funny.
Proportional_Switch ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:40:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Stealing jokes has made a lot of people rich, doesn't seem hard.
Nerdyredeyejedi ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:22:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Carlos Mencia learned the easy way. Is he even still alive?
Mathelicious ยท 2562 points ยท Posted at 12:31:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teach kids, it is damn hard and will make you go nuts when unprepared
PlinyPompei ยท 860 points ยท Posted at 12:41:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There is no way in hell you could pay me enough to teach kids. No thanks.
[deleted] ยท 1318 points ยท Posted at 15:07:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most teachers don't get paid enough to teach kids
SemoMuscle ยท 689 points ยท Posted at 16:25:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Its so weird that if you ask anyone, they'll tell you teachers don't get paid enough, but when it comes time to pay them, no one wants to cough up the money
Edit: Ya'll hate teachers, huh?
Aken42 ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 16:45:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That doesn't just apply to teachers. Everyone wants to get paid more but thinks everything is too expensive. Unfortunately those two ideas cannot coexist.
gal5tom ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 18:44:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone hates teachers because we all mainly remember our crappie teachers. The good ones like a good referee you don't notice most of the time.
mandylucy ยท 50 points ยท Posted at 21:29:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I really wish I could kill the whole, "well when I was in high school of had crappy teachers so..." thing. You know NOTHING about teaching from going to high school. Not only did you not see what was going on behind the scenes (which is about 75% of teaching) but you were also filtering everything through your teenage lense. Teenagers (due to crazy things happening with mental, emotional, and physical development) warp every experience through a very limited and selfish point of view.
Elitra1 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 23:16:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
you were clearly never taught by people who didnt understand the subject they were teaching, couldnt keep a class under control or had personal vendettas against certain children so would encourage bullying. My high school was full of it and now i work in a school i see the same things happeneing.
[deleted] ยท 208 points ยท Posted at 16:41:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
TerribleAttitude ยท 362 points ยท Posted at 17:17:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It is the taxpaying public's responsibility to pay public school teachers. And it is the taxpaying public's responsibility (via voting) to influence how those funds are allocated. If you ignore midterm elections, lower-level politicians, and ballot initiatives, you are very much personally part of the problem. In my state at least (this is not true everywhere, which is why they don't consistently rank worst or second worst in education), tax increases can only be changed by voting. No matter how small and insignificant the amount of money is, and no matter how pressing and important the issue is, these measures do not pass. People will vote "no" on "increase property taxes by one eighth of a penny to fund education/your own drinking water/whatever" every single time.
We don't just hand over a lump sum to "the government" and then have no more say in what they do with it. We are, as the tax paying, voting public, also responsible (partially) for directing how the money is spent. If you skip midterm elections because CNN and FOX News aren't riling you into a frenzy about a president, then you have been personally complicit in this issue. If you don't research the politicians you vote for beyond who's going to Washington or just voting down a straight party line, you have been personally complicit in this issue. If you huff and scoff and don't vote at all because you're so wrapped up with the idea that your vote regarding the two or three big-time politicians on the ballot "doesn't matter," you also remove your input from the elections of lower-level politicians who's actions have direct and immediate effect on you and the local/state community......and you have been personally complicit in this issue. So many of the people who's jobs it is to allocate these funds and do it poorly remain in their positions for years because people are too busy whinging about Presidential elections (as if the president has anything to do with teacher's salaries vs. a new football field), or refuse to vote for a Democrat/Republican/something else.
And yes, part of the problem is that there is objectively an insufficient amount of money being "thrown at" this problem. I know it's the most beloved right-wing talking point, but education costs money and things can't be pulled out of thin air. If half the classrooms in the state don't have modern textbooks, computers, or enough teachers, that is because the money is not there to buy textbooks and computers, or to pay enough teachers. Throwing money at the problem immediately fixes the problem. It's not the only action that would fix the problem (as your example illustrates), but the money has to be present for it to be allocated at all.
Gods_Righteous_Fury ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:38:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I live in British Columbia and we just had a fairly severe teacher's strike a couple of years back. Now, the teachers weren't arguing for just higher pay, (increased benefits were put in there as well) they were mainly arguing for class size limits and class composition (number of special ed students in a given class).
The talking point that was repeatedly thrown down by the side arguing for the teachers was "BC spends $1000 less per student than the national average". Now this seems significant, but when you look how BC students compare to the other provinces in grade's I think we ranked within the top 3.
I'm not saying we can completely ignore the role funding has in education. I can't imagine going through a school system with no textbooks, computers or the ability to fund excellent electives (Arts, Music, Shop, Mechanics, etc..). But if we are asking how can we make the system more effective, there are other inputs than just a school districts budget. It's not effective to throw money at a problem without identifying that problem and constantly re-evaluating to see where else we can put the money.
[deleted] ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 19:51:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 23:37:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
sushisharkjl ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:08:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
:'(
[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 18:06:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
TerribleAttitude ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 18:47:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, "throwing money at the problem" is a beloved right-wing talking point, especially when it comes to educating children. You being liberal doesn't mean you are immune to that.
Good for you for voting in every local election! Maybe if more people thought like you, this wouldn't be so large of an issue.
Also, you may feel free to take an enormous step back regarding "this is Illinois" as if that's supposed to shut me up. I am intimately aware of the issues with Illinois politics, especially regarding the school system. I'm aware that it's fucked up, but oh my dear.....you don't have any idea how much more fucked up it could be. People from Illinois (or who hear about Illinois on the news) love to moan and groan as if it's the most corrupt, failtastic place in the country, and that's not even close to the truth. I now live where the corrupt Illinois politicians move to in order to avoid trouble, because in Illinois, politicians actually run the risk of getting in trouble occasionally. You have no idea how relatively cushy that makes your experience.
akesh45 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:45:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
As a former teacher it's the demographics that determine performance....it's pretty hard to make a shitty school unless you purposely hire bums.
Those high ass property taxes ironically are used to fund the schools so they attract wealthier families which in turn raise property values which usually boosts performance(Rich kids mop the floor with poor kids in school) even further. Naperville,IL is a example of this....insane proptery taxes....but every indian doctor in the state gives his left nut to move here.
nightpanda893 ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 19:24:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This isn't really how it works. Most townships have votes on school budgets. The people decide exactly how much money they are giving towards education on a local level.
SemoMuscle ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:28:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You could vote for better government.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:50:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
jackzander ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:34:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Unfortunately, you believe your one vote is the most you can provide.
Phionex141 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:50:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Allen, Texas?
CainRedfield ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:26:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm all for paying teachers more, but first there needs to be a change in the system and the teachers union. I live in BC and teachers cannot be fired here for doing a poor job teaching. Their superiors can only make recommendations on how they can improve their work, but cannot take disciplinary action when say a child with autism is being sent to the medical room to sleep for a few hours because the teacher is unwilling to properly do their job and help them with their work.
FM_Mono ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:47:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My mum is an integration aide which, if you don't have them, is basically a TA who focuses on one or two specific children in a classroom, and typically those who need constant attention, like the kids with autism.
I bring this up because in a classroom of 20+ students with one kid with autism, it's a horrible thing to do to expect the teacher to put aside the education of 20 students to focus literally all day on getting the autistic one to do a few maths problems. That's a rough gig, and typically it's not an unwillingness issue on the teacher's behalf, but a simple inability.
That's where mum comes in. Obviously it's unreasonable to not educate the children who need this literal 24-hour supervision, but this isn't the teacher's fault. They're there to educate a group of students, not just the one that needs constant attention.
Don't blame the teacher - blame the school and the district for not hiring enough aides to help the teacher get the job done.
hoybowdy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:44:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hey, asshole, you also vote for people who negotiate in bad faith - in ways that shortchange and slowly crush teachers' souls. Want to redirect those resources? Vote differently and stop claiming it isn't your fault 'cause "government". You ARE the government.
jscott18597 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 17:20:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd argue a solid sports system gets more people to graduate high school per dollar than raising teachers salaries. (in poor school districts) I wish that wasn't the case, but it does. Funding extra curriculars sounds like a money sink, but giving kids reasons to come to school and do well enough to participate, in those activities, is a great thing.
mjk1093 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:40:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A solid sports program, yes that does help keep kids in school. Art and music programs too. However no High School needs multi-million dollar football stadiums - kids just want to play the game. The shiny stadiums only feed the ego of adults - and probably involve lots of contractor kickbacks.
jscott18597 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:36:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Part of the money is paid for by the city, part by boosters, and yes part by the school district. A nice stadium that lasts 10 years that costs lets say $3,000,000 vs a $10,000 raise on (let's say)1200 teachers in your average school district. So 10,000 x 1200 teachers x 10 years comes to $120,000,000 over 10 years.
NOW do you think teachers getting a salary boost of that much (with only a 4 years bachelors and 1/4 of the year "off") will cause more students to graduate than a well funded sports (and I'd concede they need to add more money into all extra curricular)?
The system is brokeeeeeeee, but throwing money at teachers with a simple bachelors and so much time off does not seem like a realistic solution.
I say we take that 120,000,000 over 10 years. Fund sports, fund music, fund student run clubs. Fund college out reach and advanced placement classes. Give raises to teachers continuing education.
GET PEOPLE TO GRADUATE
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:15:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For the record, most public schools have a standardized pay scale in place that increases teacher salaries based on experience and continuing education. I agree with you that investing in extracurricular activities is a great way to keep kids interested in school. With that said, the way you propose funding that new football stadium is a little off. A poor school doesn't have boosters, period. The property tax revenue from that poor district is low, so there is little chance it will be enough to pay for a stadium. The lack of property tax revenue often means the schools in general is underfunded, meaning less money for other extracurriculars. Those poor schools are the places that are struggling to produce the graduates. For all of the things the federal government does wrong with public education (increased standardized testing), it at least provides grants to those schools so they can sometimes have decent extracurricular activities. Getting people to graduate is a very difficult task. A lot of places that struggle to produce graduates have that problem because the students come from economically depressed homes that either don't value education or don't know what getting an education really looks like. Even most poor schools have some sort of college-level coursework, whether it be AP or a partnership with a university. (Universities love these programs as they recruit first-gen college students.) If the school doesn't, unless it's one of the worst of the worst, it will send a high achieving kid to community college for classes.
All public education is different. Do your research on the problems with your local schools and see what can be done, because the problems one school district is facing often aren't the same as the ones in your district. Do your part and volunteer to coach a team so at-risk kids get more involved at school. Sorry for the rant, it just seemed like you cared but were oversimplifying the problem a bit.
mandylucy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:50:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"With only a 4 year bachelors" You can't even teach in many states and districts with just a 4 year bachelors. Nevermind that the pay is really low compared to other professions with equivalent education levels. "1/4 of the year off" Seriously? Seriously? First of all, we only get paid for contract hours. That means I only get paid for 6:50am-2:15pm on the days I work. Never mind that I can legally be held until 5:00 by the principal for faculty meetings (which are weekly), and that conferences, IEP meetings, tutoring, after school clubs, helping with school performances, grading and planning must all be done by me on my own time without pay. Oh yeah, and your math is incorrect, I get 1/6 of the year "off" if you count traveling to go to conferences and training during spring break and summer as being "off" time. I get as unpaid for that as I do for the parts of breaks I do spend by the pool.
Studies have repeatedly shown that the teacher is the best investment we can make dollar for dollar in improving student achievement. Unfortunately, there are those out there that think like you, and that thinking hurts our students. I have seen so many gifted educators leave the profession because they can't afford to teach anymore. I love teaching, but some days it is really tough to think about how much more money and how much more time with my family I could have if I switched professions. I graduated top of my class in chemistry, worked in a biochemistry lab starting when I was 19 years old, and crushed a lot of premed kids dreams by breaking the curve in all of their science courses. Basically I am expected to be a martyr and take the low pay and long hours while having to read stuff like this everywhere. Right now, that is what I am doing because I love it, but if you think losing experienced, talented, and caring educators due to the pay is somehow helping students then you are crazy.
Edit: spelling
akesh45 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:55:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teacher attrition occurs often due to piss poor pay and prestige. So your kid gets taught by burn outs or newbies.
Continuing education for teachers is a gigantic waste of money if you mean masters. AP classes are the kinda classes most poor kids won't voluntarily take. Going to class =/= learning enough to graduate...I'm not sure how sports will help. If anything I think sports should be spun off of school entirely until college. Just a waste of tax payer money and time.
akesh45 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:50:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Only a small percentage of kids play sports so the rest suffer greatly.
arnoldswollenegger ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 21:13:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Your underpaid highschool teachers obviously weren't good at all if you believe that it isn't your job to pay teachers.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:31:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's basically how everything is. "Oh, you wanted MY money for that? I've had a sudden change of heart..."
That said, when you make less money than teachers it's really hard to justify paying them more out of your own pocket. Not that that applies to many of us.
CainRedfield ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 19:28:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's because some teachers deserve more money, where some deserve to be fired. There are tons of new grads that would love to become a teacher but can't because the union is messed up and does not allow the school board to fire teachers that are terrible at their job. Why not let go the horrible teachers and replace them with new ones? That's how every other profession works.
danjouswoodenhand ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 22:14:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone always talks about unions no and how they protect the bad teachers. If a teacher is bad, it's quite possibly not the union that keeps them in the classroom. Plenty of teachers in my district have been removed from the classroom. The union is there to make sure the procedure for removal is followed - not to keep the teacher employed. The teachers know the procedure. The admin knows the procedure. But many times the admin fails to follow the most basic steps required - you have to have an evaluation done by December 1, or the post-evaluation conference has to be held within 5 days of the observation. When the admin doesn't even start observations until thanksgiving or takes 3 weeks to do the post, it's not the union "protecting bad teachers." It's the people who have a straightforward, agreed-upon procedure to follow and fail to do so who are allowing those teachers to stay in the classroom.
There is a bad teacher at my school that the department would dearly love to get rid of and replace with someone competent. Three years in a row the principal failed to do an eval prior to December 1. That's why she's still there, the union has nothing to do with it.
Eow_hwaet_m8 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:26:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hey hey hey, don't you come in here with your facts and ruin a good anti-teacher/anti-union circlejerk! This won't stand!
JacktheStripper5 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:41:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Some admins refuse to follow due process. Some unions protect some absolutely vile let alone incompetent educators.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:57:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Johnny2Cocks ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 18:58:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teachers in Finland and South Korea are also not accepted into teaching colleges unless they are in the top, single-digits of their classes.
Here in the US universities tend to be slightly less, ahem, discerning when it comes to whom it is they accept into their schools of education.
This is a situation that was examined in depth by the hot bed of Koch Brother right-wing-ism known commonly as CBS news some years ago. It's also a problem that has been commented upon by any number of pro-Charter school groups and the educators who run them.
Let's face it. Teachers get low pay in the US because A) these are not academically rigorous programs at most universities so they tend to get the undecideds and those not looking for a serious challenge and B) because of A, there are a whole lot more people out there with teaching credentials than there are places for them to teach.
The market is outright flooded. And a teaching degree and a public sector union are not magic force fields against the vagaries of supply and demand curve.
FalafelFriday ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 21:50:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This! Same with in Canada. I was at a University in Edmonton trying to become a highschool biology teacher, and the amount of students who were just in the Education program because they "didn't know what else to do" was astounding. These people then become teachers because honestly, the program (for elementary anyways-biology was a beast) was so simple. So when someone says "our teachers should be paid more" I'm always a little on the fence.
tomousse ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 01:27:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teachers earn a good salary in Canada though. Canadian teachers get lumped in with American teachers when it comes to pay scales when in reality teachers are fairly compensated in Canada.
FalafelFriday ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:03:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They do get paid fairly well, but many people think they should be on the same pay scale as Doctors.
Sardoodledum ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:49:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Or because they want to coach. The football coach at my college was notorious for pushing his undecided players into the education program. Most of the time they would pick secondary social studies to specialize in, because they were told it was the easiest discipline
naideck ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:13:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lol why are you getting downvoted? It's pretty much the truth with what is going on right now and the South Korean thing is pretty accurate as well.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:33:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
tomousse ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:28:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not everyone gets to realize their dreams.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:25:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
tomousse ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 09:41:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Educational requirements aren't artificial barriers. It's a a legitimate method to weed out the under qualified.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:05:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
tomousse ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:20:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fair enough. A random percentage is a dumb way to determine who is qualified to do something.
Johnny2Cocks ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:58:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And this is something that just does not happen as much as it should. Grade inflation is a problem in every department these days, but it's especially bad in education departments.
It's been found that education majors enter college with the lowest average SAT scores and leave with the highest average GPA's.
I'm not filled with hate for teachers. I'm just generally befuddled by their insistence that they be regarded with the same professional deference as Doctors, Lawyers, and Engineers. I can assure you that in those programs, there is a colossal amount of attrition that only helps to drive the quality of graduates higher.
I don't want to see anyone cut off from their dream job by arbitrary measures. But I also don't want to see people I'm forced to pay by law (i.e., under pain of incarceration) get to ignore any standard and dictate to me how much they are worth. But that's how it seems to play out all over the country.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:42:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:44:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:13:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:17:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:58:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:18:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Mathelicious ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:14:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It is Finland, kids want to become teachers in high school... Unheard of!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:30:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Why is that?
rajikaru ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:16:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Probably because their bosses pay them, not us.
Boomandshit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:25:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
While I agree that teachers should be paid more to deal with the students shit.... I do not like teachers, I didn't like teachers when I was in school, I dont like teachers now when I go to my son's school........ At least they are better than the administrative staff in the offices. Bunch of catty bitches in the offices.
Infamaniac23 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:36:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wait why would I be paying the teachers???
Mathelicious ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:14:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The cheapest babysitter you will ever get, that even educates your child!
Infamaniac23 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:12:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But it's not my job to give their salary.
gingerking87 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:41:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Teachers are extremely important for the future of any nation but what other job demands equal compensation for less than a years worth of work? You get 20% of the year off you get 80% of pay to a comparable career.
Edit: Thanks for those who responded, this wasn't an attack on teachers or anything I genuinely want to know. It seems the common thing that teachers work hours upon hours after the official school day ends but my response to that would be what about the thousands of other careers that don't end when the workday is over?. Jobs like my future profession archeology. Sure you spend 9-5 digging and recording but when you go home, that's where the analysis and additional reading and writing are done. Do archaeologists get paid extra for that? No.
Maybe that was a bad example but there are literally hundreds of jobs that don't end when the work day is over and they still work 49 out of the 52 weeks a year.
kestenbay ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:54:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When you come home from work, is your workday over? Mine NEVER is. There is ALWAYS more grading to be done, more lesson planning, and preparing for the surprise inspections which come 5 or more times a year (and you'd BETTER be ready!) I know many people carry a smartphone and are "on call" but I'm working for 2 hours every night ON TOP of the paid workday. I teach Jr. High in NYC.
Or, more succinctly: "I'm all caught up!" said no teacher, ever.
Linguiste ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:15:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most teachers work extra hours after school and on weekends grading, planning, and communicating with parents. Furthermore, summers are not spent relaxing. They are used for professional development, collaboration, and curriculum development. When you take the hours worked by the average teacher over 40 weeks, it balances out to that which a full time worker does in 52.
Here's an article from the NEA which explains things a bit further.
Mathelicious ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:25:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You sir are so wrong, it is funny. We have contact hours in classes, but then comes grading, preparing, administration, meetings, our studie, and don't forget about students asking for extra education after school. Basically, our average workweek equals any other work week only that it is in 80% of the time. Because of that, most teachers will be grading during the breaks and prepare lesson plans. We do this to spread the workload. Breaks do give us more time for ourselves, but remember: On holiday's we are always in high season, never more than 2 weeks except summer. Another downside about teaching.
Not47 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:39:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Where I'm from, teachers make over 100 k after ten years. Start around 80k.
Edit thanks for the downvotes. This is in canada so dont get your panties in a bunch.
ChildishGambeezy ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:06:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Where are you from? I'm from North Carolina, and the starting salary is about $30,000.
ShitUserName1 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:18:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
9 years ago, I saw how much teachers at my High School got paid (MN). They started around $40k and then jump up by time teaching and highest education (bachelors, masters, Ph.D) and plateau around $90k. There is additional funding that was given to coaches and teachers involved in other activities.
Jmsnwbrd ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:46:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Where are you from? Government employees in America have salaries posted. In America not one district starts at over 50,000.
Not47 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:29:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Canada
SHEISTHEFURY ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:22:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a teacher and I can almost guarantee that if you are in the US, then you are misinformed. Only administrators make this kind of money. I'm in one of the higher paying areas and my first year I only made 40,000$. Four years in, I'm at $47,000 without any extra stipends. The cap is $65,000.
JessicaMcStevens ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:12:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
10 yrs with a Master's degree gets you 55k here.
ProfessorBarium ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:55:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Which province/territory? It is nowhere near that much in BC.
lihoihohiubib ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:22:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
i don't want to pay them the money. they work 9 months a year in a free market economy. they aren't getting paid because their job is likely oversaturated and as a result there's no real purpose in paying them more.
while it'd be nice to pay everyone in the world a billion dollars per year, it's not feasible and the free market has dictated that 1 teacher has less relative value than say.... 1 doctor.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 19:27:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
SemoMuscle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:56:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Careful bro, don't cut yourself on all those edges
rondell_jones ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:00:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have been tutoring math and science since high school and I thoroughly enjoy teaching and would like to think that I would be a pretty good teacher. I've thought about teaching, but there is no way I would give up my job as an engineer to go back and be a teacher for half as much. I think the same holds true for many people in the science and engineering fields. The ones who are really passionate about it (and have an enthusiasm that translates well into teaching) can't justify leaving their careers to teach for much lower pay (and a much more grueling schedule, which naturally comes with teaching). If teaching paid somewhat competitively with a regular job, even if it was 10-20k less, I would've definitely considered it.
ThatGingeOne ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:11:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you! This is my issue when people say oh teachers don't get paid too badly and they also complain about the quality of teachers. Yeah the pay isn't awful but you aren't going to get nearly as many great teachers as you could get if the pay was competitive with other jobs those people could be doing. Don't even get me started on people who seem to think teachers just spend their whole holidays relaxing!
lacubriously ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:03:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd take $40,000 a year, summers and all holidays off, lengthy spring and winter breaks to be a teacher. My brother teaches 5th grade and a friend teaches 4th, no doubt it's tough, but there are also great benefits to being a teacher on top of great health benefits.
badham ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:28:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes except most teachers are either doing prepping, grading, or doing professional development during these breaks. There's no break :(
QCMBRman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:53:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"I know i'm crazy, we all are, we have to be." -my Latin teacher.
Forecheck88 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:55:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am all for paying teachers more. But the problem is, my calc teacher deserves 12 cents and my world lit teacher deserves $100,000 but how do you determine that. Teaching should be paid by skill not by tenure or how many years they've been employed. Because that doesn't motivate them to do a better job.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:21:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The average salary of a teacher (K-8): $44,548
The average salary of a high school teacher: $48,745
The average salary of an engineer: $66,890
Engineers make roughly $16,722.50 per quarter (3 month period) they work
Teachers make roughly $15,548.83 per quarter they work (3 month period)
I'm currently working on my masters so I can become a high school history teacher and I would love to be paid more. But I think we need to stop with this bullshit narrative that teacher's don't get paid enough money. They work 3 less months out of the year than every other profession. If you break it down to how much they make per quarter you see that the difference really isn't that substantial between your average engineer and a teacher.
tommyjohnpauljones ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:04:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
True story: I taught high school in rural and suburban Illinois (nowhere near Chicago) for eight years. I had a master's degree in my field, and received several extra stipends for activities. In my eighth and final year as a full-time professional educator in the U.S., I made all of $39,520.
The next summer, I took an IT training job and received a 20% raise.
whiteonwhiter ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:16:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Depends on where you are . I have an aunt out west who is at 90k she has a bachelors and a masters that her school paid for. 90k to work 9 months a year sounds goods to me.
[deleted] ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 19:36:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fuck that. These people get paid to read word for word the same PowerPoint they've been using for the past 10 years. The hardest part of their job is grading ffs. You don't need a college education to read off a textbook.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 22:26:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Sardoodledum ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:04:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wish I could give you a million up toes. You just described a teacher's day so well. In an ideal world, you could just walk in, talk about your PowerPoint and everyone would understand. But you're dealing with 25+ individuals each with their own personalities and issues.
Let's also not forget those unexpected interruptions as you're trying to teach: the fire drill, the call from the office because Joey's dad is here to pick him up early, and oh, the projector stopped working in the middle of the lesson so now you have to call tech support, and also Susie has to go to the bathroom (it's an EMERGENCY!)
[deleted] ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 16:43:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
JoshStevenMiller ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:08:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ha, as a former Marine that's now in the classroom, sometimes that'd work. I've definitely used similar leadership tactics with the kids as I did with junior Marines. However, with a lot of the middle schoolers I know, you'd lose any chance of them listening to you; if they don't fear the punishments, threats are ineffective. I think about the differences in leadership styles a lot, actually. I think the best way to motivate someone isn't force or intimidation, but rather showing them that group and self interests align.
AxmxZ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:30:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teaching is an art. One of my favorite Russian literary men, who teaches high school and college, says his standard tactic when he walks into a 'difficult' classroom is to speak to them as though they were actually a class of gifted college students. Lots of long words, lots of complex ideas, and always the segue "As you already know..." He says they tend to spend the first class disoriented and puzzled, then they slowly start catching on, and eventually, their self-esteem compels them to try harder rather than try to sabotage the class, and their performance improves dramatically. I'd love to know if there are any teachers in America who practice this sort of approach.
JoshStevenMiller ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:24:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's an interesting approach. I'm sure the kids like having someone treat them more like grown ups. Kids spend their entire days being lectured at by adults whose only source of authority is their age. Of course the kids realize that, and they single out the teachers who love teaching only because they want to wield egotistical power over a helpless audience. I try and be more relaxed and treat them like adults. No strategy will work for everyone, of course, and they're all watching to see if those one or two trouble makers rattle you enough to make you lose your cool. I'm helped out because I'm male (not to be sexist, but I think middle schoolers respond better to men, usually), and young, and kinda sarcastic, and I think they just don't try as much with me as they might with another adult.
jdman929 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:47:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You'd be a great teacher
Mathelicious ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:29:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
He actually reminds of some students which require this kind of instruction. You forgot your homework! Have you ever seen a carpenter forget his toolbox? And if one did, what would you think of it. The kid wisely said he would be a moron, basically insulting himself... Teaching is fun
Bassoon_Commie ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:03:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I read this in R. Lee Ermey's voice. Was I supposed to?
EsQuiteMexican ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:33:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I tried this for a bible class in a summer activity. The hyper kids actually preferred to do the fifty over their activity. I ended up using it as a reward.
GoonCommaThe ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:00:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That be completely ineffective and likely worsen any issues.
ShutUpIWin ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:58:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Same here, at least if you expect me to actually work with kids. If I can just sit in the classroom not caring about the kids, maybe I'd consider $100K per year.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:45:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I occasionally teach as part of a volunteer organization. Sometimes it's just one day a week. And at the end of that one single day I'm fucking exhausted.
PMmeforsocialANXhelp ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:40:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I teach kids everyday. Tiring as fuck.
Ballinandfallin ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:44:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well that's a relief because you're not going to get paid anything.
goochockey ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:29:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Don't worry. No one is getting paid enough to teach kids.
Rae_the_Wrackspurt ยท 505 points ยท Posted at 15:31:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a student teacher and due to a medical emergency (my second week) I was left to my own devices in a room full of south Phoenix 4th graders for a week with almost no sub plans. Coming out at the end alive is a triumph and gone are the "he's just a misunderstood child" days. Sit down you little shit, you don't need another squirt of hand sanitizer.
[deleted] ยท 48 points ยท Posted at 18:07:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Holy shit, you survived a war zone. I have friends who teach in the Roosevelt ESD, and the stores they tell give me the shivers. Then again, they would have less horror stories if Phoenix had a halfway organized school system.
Rae_the_Wrackspurt ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 19:17:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Haha Roosevelt is where I'm at. The principal is great but holy shit the state needs to get it together. Our class has 32 kids! There's two kids who are new and way behind in math and my mentor teaching straight up told me there's nothing we can do and they'd just have to fail. She doesn't have the time money or resources to catch them up herself.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:48:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Phoenix would save itself a lot of hassle if it would consolidate districts. There is no need for all the ESDs and the High School District to be seperate.
HobbitFoot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:33:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, especially as most of the surrounding school districts are larger and unified.
Sardoodledum ยท 107 points ยท Posted at 17:22:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
We had a kid that was using sanitizer to get "high". He would clean his hands and then sniff them I guess to smell the alchohol scent. He also liked to lick his hands after sanitizing. We had to cut him off.
BreakingBondage ยท 49 points ยท Posted at 21:11:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I accidentally read that as "we had to cut them off" and thought you meant that you cut off his hands.
Sardoodledum ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 22:27:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That kind of punishment is not permitted anymore.
guto8797 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:57:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Belgian schools were way better back then
PartyPorpoise ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:34:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My dad misses the days when you could take away their cigarettes. (he was being serious)
Courage4theBattle ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:36:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I taught a high school men's choir last year and all those guys did that too (the sniffing, not the licking)
Imadoc91 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:12:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I still do that, I just like the smell.
marqoose ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:31:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hm. I'd have to question the decision to cut his hands off there.
Bogus1989 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:52:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I used to put hand sanitizer on my eyelids to stay awake in basic training
Fatass_McGee ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:20:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
wot
Bogus1989 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:21:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yup
Fatass_McGee ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:44:18 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Did that a negative effect on your eyesight later in life?
Bogus1989 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:11:59 on January 27, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I dont think so. Ive always had shitty eyesight. Fuck you just made me re evaluate my life.
Fatass_McGee ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:02:21 on January 27, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
x-files theme plays
Bogus1989 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:25:57 on January 27, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It is now playing in my head
IrrationalFraction ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:46:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sure, you can get drunk of of hand sanitizer, but if I've learned anything from distilling, that shit will blind you.
caeth ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:50:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I taught for 2 years in Phoenix. The horror stories... I think I lost 10 years off my life. Currently teaching in a school with a high poverty rate, but in a state that actually supports education.
Slothy22 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:02:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There was a kid in my High School that tried to get drunk by drinking hand sanitizer. We had to switch to a foam rather than a liquid after that.
lucythelumberjack ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:04:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In junior high a kid tried to poison our science teacher (who was fighting breast cancer) by pumping hand sanitizer into her coffee. Luckily she wasn't fucking stupid and noticed the taste right away. I think the kid got suspended for a long time, he definitely came back the next year.
lucythelumberjack ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:02:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I went to public school (K-12) in Peoria, which is West Valley. That was bad enough.
Fuuuuuck Phoenix.
TheScumAlsoRises ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:18:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is South Phoenix a bad part of town?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:05:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Did a week of supply right after my student teaching in a g4 class that I had done my second placement in.
Easily the worst teaching of my career. I remember being super down on myself after things didn't go well. No major problems or anything, but I gained a massive new respect for the profession after that -- and I already thought I knew a lot.
11 years in and I'm still learning.
It's like poker. Anyone really can do it, but to do it well and make a real difference is a whole other game, and it doesn't take long to see who the pros and pretenders are.
BronMarlett ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:11:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hahahaha! This.
tweeex ยท 214 points ยท Posted at 15:18:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I taught little kids overseas for a few years. The biggest thing I learned: if you are tired, anxious, stressed out, hungover (ESPECIALLY hungover) or otherwise not feeling your best, they know. I don't know how, they just KNOW. They've got some sort of little kid sixth sense or something. They know, and they will use every opportunity they can to take advantage of it. There's nothing worse than being hungover in a room full of screaming children.
MidwestMilo ยท 125 points ยท Posted at 15:24:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
We always knew when the teacher was hungover because she would put on a movie.
tweeex ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 15:30:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Movie day was my greatest ally. Saved my ass more times than I care to count.
TacosAreJustice ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:58:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My sister used to have sideways day... She'd like on the floor and pretend she was standing on the wall...
phalseprofits ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:21:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If I had to be a teacher I would just play fern gully every day until I got fired.
Boomandshit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:29:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Shit, it makes sense now that we watched a movie every Monday in 9th grade English.
mdogg500 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:42:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For me it was I could tell when a teacher was mentally weak and I know my class could as well and being the kid who just wanted to learn and go home without extra work because of "the good suffer for the bad". I internally hated weak teachers because I know they'd combat bad behavior with pointless work
Lumpiest_Princess ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:43:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm guessing this was ESL; I have the opposite experience. My off days are the days my 3-6 year olds are the kindest. They don't know what's wrong (sick, depressed, whatever) but enough of them can sense it.
Seanay-B ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:56:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You go to work hungover much?
MisterTwindle ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 07:03:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you go to work hungover you deserve sirens to go off in your ears you fucking idiot.
tweeex ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:48:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hahaha, yeah, you're probably right. It was mostly the result of (a) only working on the weekends (private schoolteacher), (b) liquor being cheap, good, and ubiquitous, and (c) the expectation from my coworkers, superiors, and friends to hardcore drink with them whenever they wanted. Which was often. If you're really curious: I lived in China, where there's a serious work-drinking culture; it's essentially a given that if you go out with your coworkers and drinking is involved, everyone is going to start buying each other a bunch of shots, and declining this offer is essentially the worst social faux pas one can commit (you can say you're not a heavy drinker and get away with drinking less, but god forbid you claim to be a teetotalerโthat'll make you lose face, and face is, like, THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS in Chinese society). It's a little bit fucked up, yesโbasically a glorified, nationalized form of peer pressureโbut there you have it. The end result was some seriously bad hangovers, not just for me, but for all of my coworkers and bosses as well. I'm not trying to exonerate myself or condone this kind of behaviorโit's pretty bad, honestlyโbut it's definitely a cultural phenomenon over there. Makes you think. And worry.
MisterTwindle ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 09:35:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
WTF China?
tweeex ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:41:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah man, it's a little unnerving. This article sums up the problem pretty well; I don't know nearly as much about other Asian drinking cultures, but I've heard from some friends that Korea and Japan have similar tendencies.
palookaboy ยท 344 points ยท Posted at 16:20:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
What drives me nuts is the way the entire public seems to think that being a good teacher amounts to just knowing a lot about the subject. It's why people who've never worked in a school in their lives seem to think they know the cure-all to fix the education system.
edit: Thanks for the gold! This is the happiest day of my life.
SeekingVeterans ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 17:52:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
This. Teacher here. Subject knowledge is tested on entrance exams as first part of a complicated licensure process. One can't truly begin to become a teacher (complete the necessary masters program needed in most states) unless you pass at least two of these exams: one on general communication and literacy skills (a cornerstone of all academia) and another highly specified by subject and grade level. Next comes learning how to actually teach and understanding the responsibilities of a teacher. This generally takes one and a half to two years of classes which concludes with a practicum and student teaching. From here, one can actually be considered a licensed teacher. However, licenses have more levels to them and one will need to take a plethora of more mandatory classes to upgrade to higher pay grades, or if your state decides to institute new policies such as ELL or SPED training. This is for a first year teacher in MA which has generally higher thresholds than other states, but then again, not the highest. In all this time, subject matter is rarely discussed. It is assumed you have superior knowledge or you wouldn't be there in the first place. So much of teaching has little do with subject and much more to do with psychology and interpersonal skills such as relationship-building, empathy, dealing with abrupt behaviors and those that persist over time, student to teacher to parent to administration communication; the list goes on. Subject and lesson planning, either individually, or as a department, is left to individual attention and after school meetings. These meetings are often a group strategy session led by veteran teachers and administrators to hone in on details of subject and why and how it should be taught. Furthermore, there is a procedural work load with things like grading, updating online learning systems, emails to all of the above, special education meetings and communication, forms for this or that, etc. TLDR - adequate subject knowledge is a foregone conclusion in teaching; being a good teacher is about so much more.
Edit: Writing mistakes. Come on me, and you claim to be a teacher!
PoSKiix ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 03:00:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As someone who has just recently started taking teaching classes, this thread is really a turn off
ThatGingeOne ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:20:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's good to know what you're getting into but you'll find, despite all the shit, most actual teachers still love being a teacher for the most part
Mathelicious ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:54:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It shouldn't be. Teaching is very rewarding, and most teachers with proper training do well.
SeekingVeterans ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:39:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When it's all over though, you get to do the best thing in the world, better people through knowledge. Plus...summers off!
MpVpRb ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:04:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not me
I look at it this way. The student, who wants to learn, is trying to find all the pieces to a puzzle. The pieces must be found in the right order, at the right time. The student has no idea how many pieces there are
A good teacher tries to figure out what piece the student needs at the time. A bad teacher gives them a piece they already have, or a piece they're not ready for yet
The student who doesn't want to learn is just serving time in jail
asdvffslvja ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:02:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How do you encourage that kid to want to learn? How do you change this outcome?
You should definitely try, because the benefits to society are worth it. Plus it's a kid. Not someone who has made a rational choice.
Emm03 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:21:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
A lot of the time the best teachers are people who aren't geniuses in the subject they're teaching.
asdvffslvja ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:02:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But they're also not idiots.
101opinions ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:02:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But they need to have a reallyb thorough understanding. The idea people who struggle in school themselves are good teachers because they sympathize doesn't pan out. Studies show students perform better when their teachers did well on school. Why? I would guess because anyone can be kind but you can't explain a concept you don't totally understand. You don't need to be a genius, bit you really do need to be above average.
Emm03 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:47:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My calculus teacher in high school understood the material up and down from twenty years of teaching it and had studied the proofs and mechanics of what he was teaching, but wasn't a mathematician by any means. I don't think math was something that really came naturally to him when he was younger, and I think that was a big part of why he was a great teacher.
That's something you see with sports too--the best players don't always make the best coaches because they tend to read the game more intuitively and that's hard to teach.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:01:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A handful of my professors are proof of that.
Endlessly spewing off every little thing you know about a subject does not equate to being a good teacher.
Psudopod ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:06:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ugh, I hate professors. Sadly, at that point on your educational career, it is entirely up to you to learn the material, since the professor isn't going to help you absorb it. Lectures are the worst way to learn. Guess who is famous for lectures? Professors! Ugh. They may be an expert in their subject, but they are not an expert in teaching it. I'd say a professional teacher would be better, since they would help all the students learn what they need to know, but that isn't the point.
The point is if you are sly, you can squeeze all the facts and insider knowledge beyond a teacher's or textbook's understanding of the subject and then use the skills that got you into college in the first place and learn it all by your own damn self. That's the goal. Doesn't mean I like it, or am good at it.
donjulioanejo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:33:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I honestly think it's better to have great teachers who don't know that much about a subject, but can clearly convey what they do know and get kids interested in it, than borderline geniuses that loudly wonder what they're even doing there (my Physics 11 teacher).
Boomandshit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:28:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My wife always tells me i should be a history teacher. Just because I like to get stoned and rant about Europe, post fall of Rome through the end of the Viking age doesn't mean id make a good history teacher ๐.
Mathelicious ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:58:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a guest speaker in a history class if you are passionate about the fall of Rome. Try it
Boomandshit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:30:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm more so passionate about the fall of the Roman empire and the post apocalyptic dark ages that followed. Interesting as fuck.
CainRedfield ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:19:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It more just comes down to a passion for working with children as being an educator and positive role model. I had my fair share of horrible teachers in grade school that were obviously just in it for work. Don't teach if you aren't passionate about it, it's terrible for everyone.
PartyPorpoise ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:35:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Truedat. Teaching involves a lot of "behind the scenes" work, and there are more skills involved than just having the knowledge.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:43:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I had a lot of adjunct professors who were amazing, accomplished individuals in their field. Really smart people and good at what they did. Plus all the ones I had were really nice too. But man did they suck at teaching
crhuble ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:30:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly, you don't even have to know a lot about your subject. Obviously it helps, but as you point out: the fundamentals of teaching come from creativity, patience, diligence, and knowing how to manage a classroom.
Scarletfapper ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:17:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
True dat. You spend so much time just keeping the kids under wraps that unless you've really got the delivery of the learning material sorted out you'll lose them again in a heartbeat.
[deleted] ยท 147 points ยท Posted at 16:46:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Personally, I didn't find teaching the kids hard, but rather all the bullshit that comes with it.
Parents for instance. There was one incident where a mom stood up in the award ceremonies to call the principal stupid because little Johnny didn't win an award.
CrashEddie ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 18:34:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's the part of teaching I'd hate. Dealing with little Snowflake's Mummy who says you must be wrong because she'd never only get a B, and she couldn't possibly have been misbehaving, you can't punish my special little princess!
TheNoveltyAccountant ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 00:36:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Conversely, I had to go all the way to the principal to get a spreadsheet changed as the formulas were clearly incorrect but the teacher and head of department kept saying that I was wrong even after reviewing the spreadsheet. Eventually, a maths tracher reviewed yhe file and changed it correctly. The school then had the audacity to tell me that just because my rank increased by 15 that it wouldn't affect the rank of anyone else.
Thankfully I had parents who supported me.
GreatEscortHaros ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:25:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I call my girlfriend Snowflake so reading this was quite fun.
Psudopod ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:08:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cause she white as hell and can't take the heat?
Edit: or cause she melt on yo dick?
lucy_inthessky ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:19:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Parents
Other teachers (who need to retire or find another profession)
Paperwork
District office
Administrators who haven't worked in a classroom in over a decade.
New education laws
Common core/State based testing/No Child Left Behind/etc...
Home lives of the kids.
etc........
Yeah, teaching kids is challenging, but the other stuff added on made it way more difficult.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:47:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nothing like rushing all the reports during the last week of term.
lucy_inthessky ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:31:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well, I was talking in terms of the paperwork for each student needed by the teacher to have for the principal, to give to the district office, to make sure it's there for the state.
mekadragon ยท 475 points ยท Posted at 15:51:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teacher here. There seems to be a belief that we arrive at 8:30 with the children, leave at 3:30 with them also and don't forget about all those holidays! This could not be further from the truth and I think anyone who actually knows/lives with a teacher knows how draining and time consuming it is. It is a lifestyle choice as well as a career.
That being said, I love my job! Best choice I ever made to become a teacher.
youhairslut ยท 209 points ยท Posted at 16:08:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Amen to that. Any time I mention how tired I am, there's always someone who says, "Pfft, yeah, but you get so much holiday and you go home at 3:30 every day." Yeah, add at least 2 hours on either side of the hours you think I work, plus weekends, then subtract most of my lunch breaks, and you'll be a little closer to the truth.
SHEISTHEFURY ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 17:25:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hearing this is such a comfort. I think it's easy to feel isolated in this job because only teachers really seem to get it.. the struggle is real!
Shadrach77 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:57:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teaching is a very lonely job by default. Surrounded by kids, you are alone with your massive responsibility all day.
Cody_Fox23 ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 17:28:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Holla! I had an acquaintance try to say I complained too much after saying I was exhausted when my report card deadline came up. I spent the next day updating hourlies of my day to prove a point. "I didn't realize teachers had so much to do." Yeah no shit
boyerling3 ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 19:08:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fellow teacher here. I left my apartment at 7am yesterday and got back at 9:30pm. School day, meetings, theater practice, basketball games, grading, planning, etc. The idea of a 9-5 in which you don't take work home seems glorious.
Wyzegy ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 01:00:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's what ultimately drove me out of it. You never realize how important "turning off" is until you haven't done it for 3 years.
Beatleboy62 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 03:15:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Without a doubt. My mother taught from 1979 to 2013, and she had fucking had it by the end. Administrators dropping more and more of their work on the teachers (even though they were hiring more administrators every couple of years), parents not believing their kid actually isn't a little angel and blaming it all on the teacher, if they're even involved, parents not wanting their child to be tested for learning disabilities, having to teach to the test because that's all the time allows, merit pay hanging over their heads as a constant possibility (as if teaching children who don't want to learn is somehow your fault).
I've heard it all. My mom loved it, the children who would talk to her 15, 20 years down the line and say she made a difference made it all worth while to her. She even taught a few children of former students because they requested her.
She put her heart, soul, and quite a bit of her own money into it. The district I grew up in and my mom taught in was a mix of classes, from upper, to middle, to lower classes, so whenever they took the yearly trip to the state capitol, she would give any kids in her class who didn't have money to buy souvenirs $5 of her own money, not much, but an amazing gift to those kids. Not to mention all the supplies she bought for the class.
She seemed to be near constantly grading papers while we were home. I rarely saw my mom ever drink growing up (even in social settings it was strange), but in the last two or three years she taught, it wouldn't be strange to see her with a glass of wine while grading papers, and occasionally she'd choke up a little bit if I asked her what was going on. To me, that one glass of wine was the equivelant to someone's dad coming home and instantly downing 2 six packs in 20 minutes. So much changed, but not for the better.
And after all this, she was constantly belittled, being told she didn't care for the kids and was only doing it for the money, because, goddamn, teachers sure get paid the big bucks these days. Being told she was wrong to call her union rep when she was being harassed by the administrators for actually giving a shit if a kid was tested for a disability or not, when not being tested means a kid would be told all his or her life that they were just stupid, lazy, and didn't try enough.
I remember there were a few kids in my class that were troubled kids. Trouble at home, broken families, they were frequently in trouble during high school. So while they were either fighting with other kids or the teachers, they'd occasionally ask how my mom was doing, and how she was nice to them. Firm, but fair and understanding. I think that my mom made a difference to them, that there are truly people out there that care about you.
I guess I'm done ranting. Having lived with one, I know that people give teachers a lot of shit.
My_Inbox_Needs_Nudes ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:51:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Found the math teacher
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:20:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Don't forget all the time you spend redoing your curriculum every summer when the state changes its standards... Again.
CrackerGuy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:25:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Don't forget about meeting parents, coaching, running clubs and organizing events/trips!
SnuggleBunni69 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 16:50:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm in at 7:30 at the latest, usually out between 5-7. Spend day of Saturday planning. And I split my responsibilities with my coteacher, so I'm only doing 1/2 the work of a solo teacher. I also eat my lunch standing up and dealing with kids. That being said, I also love my job, but it sure as shit ain't for everyone.
mekadragon ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:58:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I leave my house at 7am and get it most days at 6:30pm. This does mean i take little home with me but thats marking through my lunch time and after school.
Still wouldn't change my job tho!
noah2461 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:00:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Good teachers are seriously underappreciated these days and the way students treat those trying to educate them makes me feel awful. Thank you for taking on a job more noble than most realize.
ruiner8850 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:02:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
People also think teachers get paid for not working on the summer. They don't understand that they get a salary and some of it gets deferred so that they still receive money in the summer. My sister's friend's husband insisted that wasn't true and actually had the audacity to tell my sister that she didn't understand how she was paid. Also, while teachers have summers off, people don't realize that they are often taking classes and doing other things like developing lesson plans. You've got to love it when people think they are experts at something just because they've seen part of it done.
birdsofterrordise ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:28:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
We also have in service for 2 weeks before the school year and 2 weeks after, so we really only have July-ish "off" and in a lot of districts, you have to teach summer school, do professional development, coach a sport/extracurricular activity that can also take up your time. You also need to prep for the next school year. I knew science teachers that would be switched from Biology to Chemistry and basically have to retool their entire arsenal of lesson plans and trouble shooting, test writing, etc. If you are in elementary school and get switched from kindergarten to 5th grade, a lot of that can't transfer, so you are retooling everything. You may also only get a week or two lead time for knowing all the students with special needs, let alone even seeing previous reviews or be able to meet with previous grade teachers to know what's up, if your system even has that luxury to do that.
mekadragon ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:24:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You're right about the pay.
I would say that although I do work in the summer it is only a week max. The bad thing about it is that going on holiday is so expensive, we can only take holiday in the peak times. We can't just take a day off here and there to go on holiday, theme park or a wedding. It all has to be out of term time.
ruiner8850 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:38:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
By the term "holiday" I assume that you aren't in the US? Teachers here are often required to take classes occasionally to continue their education. I'm not suggesting there isn't a lot of downtime in the summer, but people also don't realize that good teachers put in way more than 40 hours a week during the school year. My sister is probably putting in 55+ hours a week.
mekadragon ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:47:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I put on average 11 hours a day actually in school, not including anything I might take home or weekend.
We do have to do training but these are spread out throughout the year as well as the end/ start of summer
Edit : im in England
bystandling ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:19:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I worked 15 hours to turnaround tests in a day so students could retake before finals. They were mostly pissed that they did badly, when really it's their fault for refusing to work during class despite constant redirection. Sigh.
Sardoodledum ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:35:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Re: lifestyle choice. When you're out shopping, do you think "hey I could figure out a way to use that in my class?" I get caught in the Target Dollar Spot this way. Especially target's clearance racks. Out of season stickers on clearance? Cool, I'll use them for next year. Everywhere I go I am trying to scope out a deal I could use for school.
mekadragon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:41:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep! And most of it never gets used.
Sardoodledum ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:49:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So true! I'm in the process of cleaning out stuff now. Our school is collecting items for a local children's hospital, and they are looking for craft items, puzzle books, etc. for the children. I'm slowly filling up a box with items to donate.
It also doesn't help that my mother was an art teacher. Growing up, we saved EVERYTHING because it could potentially be use in an art project. Egg cartons? Save that. Toilet paper rolls? Don't throw them out. Meat trays? Use them for paint trays. Cereal boxes? Great for light weight cardboard to use for something. Pringles cans = kaleidoscopes. And you need to save this stuff up so that you have enough for the class. I won't lie hat when I started working, and also when I was a Girl Scout leader I used to pilfer my mom's supplies!
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:53:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Talking smack about the kids/parents in the staff room makes it worth it.
hapiscan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:03:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm starting to seriously think I'd like to be a teacher. Right now I'm studying laws (in Mexico) and I really want to finish this major(?). When I finish, I'd love to study philosophy. If I get to do this as I want, I'll be 27 at the end. Is it realistic to think about teaching as a carreer in my case? What do I need to do? (in general, for I know that we have a different system here in Mexico) By the way, I'd like to teach high school or above (maybe, only maybe middle school) because I'm not precisely good with kids.
_perigee_ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:36:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I started teaching high school in the U.S. at 35, am now 44. Best decision I ever made. Never had a job that I could honestly say I loved before. I absolutely love being a teacher.
When looking into a program to get certified to teach, make sure you will be able to spend time in a classroom right from the beginning (observing classrooms, pre-student teaching, etc.) Some programs don't actually get you into an actual classroom until student teaching. What waste of time if you discover after dedicating time and money, that you don't really like it.
Good luck. It's tremendously rewarding. Plus, you never have to go to work again. Every day, you go to school.
hapiscan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:31:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Man... This really hits me. I loved the last part. I love going to school, it's like a sanctuary to me.
I'll do my best to get the best formation and I'll follow your advise about the certification. This kind of things is what I need to know.
Thank you very much! :D
mekadragon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:17:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I started teaching at 26. It doesnt matter your age as long as you want it and enjoy it!
My one tip, get lots of experience before starting training. This will help make your mind up and looks good when applying for uni/jobs
hapiscan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:29:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's good news! I was really concerned about the age. This gives me hope.
And, what kind of experience may I need? I've always tought that I need to study something like pedagogy (or some kind of degree) in order to be a teacher. Do I really need to do it, or being a teacher is more than that and I can learn by my own how to do it?
Thank you very much for the answer, by the way. I've been worried for a while 'cause I don't really like to not have a life goal.
mekadragon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:45:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know if this is the same in Mexico (assuming thats where your living and not just studying) but in the UK you have to have a teaching degree or a post graduate teaching qualification. Its on these courses that you learn all the pedagogy of teaching. However most of that stuff does not come into your day to day teaching, you learn most of it on the job.
For your experience just get into schools and see teaching. Most schools will accept people for experience (after having your background checks done) and talk with teachers about it. Do more then one week tho, really experience it.
hapiscan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:18:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not really sure about Mexico, I still need to do some research. I'm not sure how education works here. I hope that it won't be so hard, and I'm happy to read that you get to learn by practice.
I'll try to do this and I'll ask my teachers what else could I do. This is starting to get serious.
Thank you!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:18:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fuck I'm in engineering but I'm thinking about going for a master's to teach. I don't know what I want to do. How'd you know you wanted to teach?
mekadragon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:30:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I used to be a builder and when i met my (now) wife she was about to start teacher training. I was coaching a football team for children and she suggested I might like this for a career as I was fed up of working on site . I went and got some experience in schools and realised I really liked it!
Columbo1013 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:24:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teacher also. Never mind the extra hours...the sheer exhaustion from being not only their teacher, but a mentor, friend, and sometimes even parent is enough to make me collapse. It is not only physically taxing, but mentally as well!
SalamandrAttackForce ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:38:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Someone on reddit was looking for a career with lots of free time and another person suggested teaching because they get summers off. When I tried to point out that teachers have to work more than 40 hours a week by the very nature of their job (can't grade or have meetings while you are teaching) and have to prepare for the next year over the summer, people were jumping down my throat to tell me all the teachers they know that never work additional hours, have all their lessons planned, and don't work over the summer. I think those must have been some crappy teachers though
Flabilonia ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:20:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And the extra-curriculars. Shit. I'm a music teacher, so I pretty much explicitly signed up for staying after school till 6 most days and giving up a ton of Friday nights and Saturdays for rehearsals, concerts, and competitions. But a lot of other teachers have their own things. All those clubs need a sponsor. All those sports need coaches. There are papers to grade, essays to read, emails to send, trips/events/fundraisers to plan. There is SO much extra stuff that we do.
mideon2000 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:28:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Dont forget grading papers for hours on end and calling parent, meetings and all sorts of fun stuff.
Boomandshit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:31:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm truly happy that some people can do it. I think you're fucking insane, but I'm glad you like it ๐
TickTick_Tick ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:47:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most of the advice I see online about teaching is basically amounting to how to have a work-life balance. It's freaking me out to see so many comments saying, "Yeah, I need to learn how to be home in time to put my kids to bed."
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:26:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That is every salary job though. I get paid to work roughly 40 hours a week but most weeks I probably end up putting in 50-60+ hours. This isn't unique to teachers, it's part of being paid on salary rather than hourly
Scarletfapper ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:13:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So nice to meet someone who understands this. My "holidays" started in late December, but aside from a couple days out of town, even then they weren't long enough to finish marking all my exams before the new term started up. I still have a couple hundred left and they're all due next week - which would be doable if I didn't still have to teach and especially prepare classes. I still want to punch people who ask what I do all day.
2_minutes_in_the_box ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:11:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can't stand bratty school-aged children or I would have done this just to get summers and holidays off.
mekadragon ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:16:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The opinion of 'i'm only doing this for the holidays' wouldn't get you far in teaching.
2_minutes_in_the_box ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:22:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A very good reason why I should not teach.
ASDMEL ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:33:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Both my parents were teachers. If you don't care what quality of work you deliver you have very little work outside of school (you prepare a lection once and then give it the next 20 years the same way), loads of holidays and a good salary.
If you're trying to do your job well it's different but if you wanna be lazy, teacher is the perfect job to do so.
kestenbay ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:59:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Your information is decades out of date. We are rated, scored, watched, inspected. Recently, NYC installed microphones in EVERY room of my school, so a principal can listen without us knowing. The pace and the pressure are far more than when I was a kid in the 1970s and 80s. Now I'm a teacher. I was born to teach, but I assure you that no one in my school is coasting - just the opposite.
ASDMEL ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:10:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That might be true for your school, round here it isn't. There is a teacher at the highschool I went to, that is mostly just giving the students some work, like "read this chapter", then goes to the cafeteria and drinks some coffee, reads a newspaper and comes back 5 minutes before the lesson is over.
It's great for everyone, the students have free time, he gives everyone good marks, he doesn't have to work and very few people really care about history as a subject anyway, so noone is missing something relevant for his future carreer and everyone is happy.
Also the "inpsections" are a total joke, they are announced so you can just prepare a halfway decent lesson for the inspection-time and be fiiine.
Mikazzi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:25:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Then you went to a highly unorthodox school.
tibsalot ยท 87 points ยท Posted at 13:47:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most people don't realize just how fast it wears on you. You will be super happy and ready, and great at the start. Give it a couple years. It'll start becoming quite difficult.
grownassmanchild ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 16:27:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
50% of teachers quit the profession in the first five years. I made it six, but only because I was finishing my masters degree to get a job that paid the bills.
croatcroatcroat ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:57:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It always amazes me how emotionally straining teaching was, and the drop out rate was also so high.
I entered university the same year as 2 close friends and after 8 years-- 4 undergrad, 4 years for graduate schools for multiple endorsements on my teaching licence my friends completed school too, the same year we finished school my 2 friends completed medical school/residency and in their first year they each earned more money then I would earn in the next 9 years while teaching. They had student loans comparable to mine too. The drop out rate for physicians is very low, most leave due to retirement and old age, rather then burn out.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/dandiamond/2015/06/02/why-doctors-really-quit/#725fb2b428f7
Teaching and Medicine are both essential public services requiring similar levels of education, yet one pays 10-20x more annually and by all accounts is far less stressful (as measured by rates of licenced individuals still being in the career 10 years later.
Things need to change, quality teachers are scarse and many are lost to burn out and lack of fair pay yet their salaries stagnate and Doctors have unlimited earning potential and near non-existent burn out rates. At least my doctor friends let me use their boats, and beach houses on the lake.
Kebilo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:07:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They get paid more for much more hours and much more stress. That's my opinion as a teacher, albeit in Canada.
croatcroatcroat ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:37:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Both friends are full time Emergency Room Physicians who are required to work an average of 8-10 8hr shifts a month, one is at a large cit hospital and has no billing or off shift call (he teaches/supervises medical researche-toxicology studies) to reach a 44 hour work week, the grant supervision gets paid entirely independantly from his ER work through federal grants), the other Dr is in a small town hospital with the same number of monthly shifts but chooses to also moonlights as a coroner and has been on the hospitals board of directors as the Doctors representative (also paid above his usual salary).
Those are 80 hrs a month full time $270,000-$300,000 jobs-- with a voluntary second job to reach 40hrs a week and add 100k-200k in annual income.
Both have never been assaulted, had to restrain patients, put out a fire, or taken a weapon off a patient-- all of which my wife and I (former teachers have both done multiple times). Dr's have stress sure but if it's so stressful where is the high suicide rate, and high drop out rate?
Kebilo ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:58:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Its not the same for everybody.
Just like your friends seem to have the easiest physician job (because some are much much more stressful than what you just described) I'm on the lucky side of the teaching spectrum. Not stressful at all and really enjoyable.
I know that many teachers have it rough, and I dare say that doctors have it rougher. Then again, it's just an opinion, not ร fact.
birdsofterrordise ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:33:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Agreed. I know teachers who worked at the school with the knife attack recently (Franklin Regional) and that is an alright school district compared to others. I've routinely pulled guns, knives, etc. out of backpacks, I've been pushed down stairs by students, stapler thrown at my head (blood and concussion woooo) and bit more times than I care to recount and that was at "good" school districts.
Purple_Buffalo ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:43:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm on year 5 and this is by far my hardest year yet. I realized the other day that I don't know if I can do this forever.
birdsofterrordise ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:35:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have starting subbing rather than full time teaching and I also starting teaching myself how to code, work SQL, and build up some data analytics skills. It is so fucking hard and I can barely make it through, but I am dying to get out because of the stress and anxiety coupled with no goddamn pay.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:31:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My high school broke a new English teacher, I feel bad about it in hindsight.
MrMeeeseeks ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:35:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not only teaching kids but having kids wears you out too. I know a set of identical twin brothers. One has two kids, one is a bachelor. The one with kids looks about 10 years older than the other. More wrinkles, more bags under the eyes.
CainRedfield ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:17:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can attest, I teach 1 on 1 as a music teacher, so I imagine it's less stressful than teaching a whole class of kids. However, my job is completely based on how well I do. If students don't like me they quit and I make nothing. Whereas, at least where I live, even if the public school teacher is a horrible teacher, they cannot be fired because of the teachers union. Definitely does wear at you a bit though, staying upbeat and fun for 6-7 hours straight can get tiring.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:35:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When I was just an aide, I wasn't paid shit....Hell..even when I was finally qualified to teach I quit...I DEFINITELY wasn't paid enough to do that shit, I loved them...but no fucking way...couldn't do it anymore.
Rewarding experience? Yes. Could I live off of my wages? Absolutely not...especially while living in an expensive part of the U.S at the time.
My patience over the 5 years grew more and more thin as months rolled by, I finally had to put in my notice after 5 years. I cried my final week because I'd miss them (kids) so much...but getting treated so horribly by my boss, no raise, bad paychecks (not to mention not getting paid on time....ever) and having kids who loved you but didn't mind you very well really drove me to borderline alcoholism, I'm not even kidding. Especially when the boss changed the rules that the teachers and the aides could only take THREE DAYS vacation during the school year which caused many people to leave. It was hectic.
Working from 7 am to 5pm for ungrateful parents who didn't care about half of those kids really angered me, but I was glad I was there to care for them, glad someone cared about them for that period of time.
wjbc ยท 83 points ยท Posted at 15:13:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I'm teaching Sunday School and two teachers have trouble keeping 14 2d and 3rd grade kids interested and occupied for an hour. One teacher with 30+ kids all day five days a week? I can't even imagine, although I know my mother did it for years. I also know how hard she worked preparing for her classes.
And there was always at least one kid, often more than one, who kept her up at night, dreaming up ways to keep them occupied and out of trouble. And she taught at a fairly good suburban school, with parents who cared.
My sister taught middle school in a poor inner city Hispanic neighborhood, that was a much bigger challenge. Some of her parents didn't want their kids going to high school, let alone college, it was time for them to go to work, earn money. It's just a totally different mindset.
nkdeck07 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:05:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is my brother. He's teaching chemistry at a not well off urban school. It's really hard to try and convince a kid that this is important when she is 16 and pregnant and has no clue what to do.
WinterOfFire ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:58:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My teacher finally got one disruptive class clown to behave by pushing his desk all the way to the front directly under the blackboard touching the wall. She did it out of desperation because she had another class clown at the back and putting them there together was a disaster.
Scarletfapper ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:20:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thise are the hardest ones - when the parents don't want the kids there. They wind up parroting the same bullshit. "Education's just a waste of time" "I'll just wind up in <family business> / on the dole / as a full-time housewife".
Fuck those parents.
AzureMagelet ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:46:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I went to a high school where 99% of the kids cared and put 100% into school work. A few years later a friend was telling me her older sister, who went to the same high school as me, was teaching at an inner city high school and just couldn't comprehend why these kids didn't care. Her world experience was just so different than them.
mideon2000 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:30:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I could see that with college. If you can find a simple municipal job and just get to work, you can retire around 50.
HuskyMutt_ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:28:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Me and a friend did peer support for the new wave of year 7s, and we are having trouble finding things to occupy 5 kids between the two of us.
peppers_ ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:48:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Taught at community college for a semester, even the grown ones can often be immature.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:51:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I substitute teach. My first day was subbing a half day in elementary school.
I never went back. Teenagers are annoying, but at least they're independent. Elementary kids need constant attention all day Jesus Christ how do teachers do it?
birdsofterrordise ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:38:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I go between various grades and classes. Sometimes, I am okay with teaching physics. Other days, I want to teach the letter H.
kperkins1982 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:51:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For the life of me I can't understand people that up and start homeschooling on a whim. Especially when there is a religious aspect to it.
A kid that goes to pubilc school socializes, they learn how to solve social problems by themselves, they learn how to be around the opposite sex
they have teachers that have spent 20 years specializing in one particular topic and how best to teach children that topic, they've gone to all sorts of school themselves, and keep going back for more
the teachers understand child psychology,
sometimes they sit kids next to each other that they want to learn how to work together
they teach kids all sorts of things that a parent might not, like evolution, sex ed
the kid learns about other races and cultures and sexual orientations and how to get along with them
the kid has access to all sorts of resources a parent would never have access to, like a chemistry lab, and the staff in general and all their experiences
I'm sure this insults some, but if we are being honest with ourselves, no one person is equipped to do all this equally well or better. Nobody will ever convince me of that, and it just seems so insulting to teachers that people think they could do it.
eeo11 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:08:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I came here to say exactly this. Just managing a classroom is difficult. Now try to make them learn.
SHEISTHEFURY ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:27:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is SO true! Millennials are particularly difficult because of their sense of entitlement and general apathy.. most really just don't seem to care
terradi ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:20:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Absolutely agreed. This is why I have an expired teacher's licence and currently work as a teacher's aide rather than as a teacher. Pay sucks, but I don't want that level of responsibility, scrutiny, and stress. I like my 8-3 job and don't want to trade it in for 60 hour weeks on ~30k (starting salary at my district) to teach in a high-poverty, high-stress situation where there isn't enough money to fix anything and I'm expected to buy all the supplies the district doesn't have the money to because it's dirt poor and desperate.
My teacher tried to convince me to get my certification renewed so I could take over the class. (He's leaving). Nope, nope, nope.
Aprils-Fool ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:15:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
High-five! I'm also a former-teacher working as a para. :) Shit money but way less stress!
terradi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:27:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hurrah! Not alone!
Are you looking into other career options or are you happy where you are? I'm considering other jobs -- my district does not pay well, even though it's a big step up from food service (my previous job). Hard to imagine sticking around long enough to retire from what I do now.
Aprils-Fool ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:22:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm happy where I am--for now. My district pays well (for para pay) and my husband is in the military, so his job takes precedence. Once he gets out, we'll probably move again, which means time for a new job for me. I previously taught preschool at a private daycare center and loved it. I'm considering getting cross-endorsed for ECE. I'd like to see what preschool in a public school looks like, though. They'd certainly pay better than a daycare, but are the expectations on preschoolers and teachers as ridiculous in public schools as in the rest of the grades? I love, love love working with kids. But the pay is shit, unless you're a classroom teacher (even then, the money sucks compared to other professions). And the BS I see classroom teachers go through just doesn't seem worth it to me.
I can't imagine not working with kids, and I can't even think of what field/job I'd start looking into. On the other hand, making more money would be awesome.
aeolusa ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:47:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This. So much this.
You always get the same things: 'you get paid so much for only working 9 to 3', 'all primary school teachers do is play and colour all day, anyone could do that' or 'you get so many holidays' why do they complain about pay and conditions?!
I recently had a trip to hospital and both the doctors I saw said the same thing to me when they found out I was a primary school teacher; 'rather you than me, that is a difficult job.' They are sodding doctors, who have people's lives in there hands. Now that's a hard ass job.
Pupazz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:45:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Had a brief stint as a teacher, and it is by far the hardest part. Some will be a pleasure to teach, some will be indifferent. One or two will be a specially designed nightmare created to tax your patience and sanity.
MrFunsocks1 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:44:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just escaped after a year and a half with high school science. To anyone wondering: No, it's not worth it. I mean teaching and designing lessons is fun, but... you don't spend much time on that.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:49:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teaching adults, too. I teach community college and sometimes when I tell people this, they say "oh, that seems like a great job! I'd love to get into that." But they say it like it's a hobby, like "I've always wanted to learn how to crochet." The academics, pedagogy, and class management aspects don't seem to register.
Tbjkbe ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:10:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes! I was hoping someone would say this! Now if only politicians realized this....
PanchDog ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:22:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's not hard to do it well enough to get by but it takes a lot to do it well.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:33:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I'm an Aide in a Primary non-severe Special-Ed classroom (SDC for you fellow aides and teachers) and we do table work with the kids. Since we have 15 kids, we split them into 3 groups of 5, and it is the aides responsibility to teach them in 2 of the groups. Even though we have the material there and an understanding of the topic, it's damn hard to teach them. The teacher, who is only 10 years older than I am, makes it look so easy.
What makes it hard is that you have micro-disruptions and for some reason they can't sit still or they blurt out questions. Then, you have these little shitheads who try to provoke other students, or another student who gets mad that he has to do work. Plus, we have a mix of 1-4 grade so we have to "dumb" it down and not use words that they don't understand. It's very taxing, and at the end of the day, you end up so tired, even though you don't do much physically.
Much respect to Teachers everywhere and especially Special Ed teachers who do this for a living. My current teacher I work for comes at 6am and leaves at 5pm and deals with parents who are in denial about their child's low IQ or Autism or whatever disorder they may have. I'm only there for the regular school time, and I'm just doing this to pay for college
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:12:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What age do you teach?
dog_in_the_vent ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:23:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is true for any job dealing with children, not just teaching.
WatercolorSebastian ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:15:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
After spending a day as an assistant for community service in high school, I respect teachers in young classes so much more. I was to just help all the papers were in order and some light organizing and I finally realized how we often counting and wrangling there really is. I was only 17 and this was years ago but I will always have a new respect for teachers dealing with 30 screaming children
zerbey ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:55:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My own 3 kids are more than enough, if I had a room full of 30 kids I'd go bananas before lunch time.
elitemlg69 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:22:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
teaching people who aren't interested in learning in general
ghostyqt ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:37:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I teach swim lessons and man does that shit take some patience. Couldn't imagine teachers having 5-6 times as many kids and dealing with them for a whole school day rather than 30 minutes at a time.
birdsofterrordise ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:39:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And imagine like half of them have zero interest in swimming and like a third of them have a disability and need special assistance from you in order to get swimming basics. That's the classroom.
ghostyqt ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:42:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Don't have to imagine that when that's how it is lol
snarkwatney ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:29:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly, just look at Kevin's example.
Scarletfapper ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:53:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As someone with a bit of university experience, you'd surprised how similar the two are. Right up to PhD level, if you don't go out of your way to treat students like adults, they'll act like kids.
Dr_Mottek ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:12:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's like organizing a birthday party for 20+ kids, of which only a fraction really want to attend and the party games are all focused around some weird hobby of yours that, after the party is over, every kid should have at least understood the basic principles of. Every. Working. Day. (also, everyone and their dog feels entitled to say how "their" birthday party would have been so much better, had they planned it instead of you, and how you're a lazy bastard because, apparently, you do nothing but throwing parties...)
I get it, everyone had their experiences with teachers; some were good, some were bad. And if you're laying your hopes and expectations for your offspring's future into the hands of a stranger, you tend to expect the best and fear for the worst. If your kid isn't a fast learner or has other problems, you hope the teacher will do his best to develope his or hers potential. If your kid is an over-achiever, you hope the teacher can spare enough time to introduce him or her to some more advanced concepts.
In a one-on-one situation, that would be no problem at all - we all went to university and studied our subject(s), had training and internships, reviews, more training... but in the classroom, we have up to thirty pupils of varying ability, and we somehow have to make sure that everyone can at least tag along with the required curriculum (and allthough it may have appeared like your teachers were the sovereign kings of their classroom, they were still held to reviews, standardized tests etc...)
Some of us excell, some of us burn out, some others give up. Myself, I dropped out and work as a tutor now. Half the documentation, a tenth of the group size, multiple times the liberties I had in the public school system (Also, a fraction of the pay, all things considered, but at least I'm happy now and satisfied with my work)
ground_hogs ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:17:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Came to say teach. "Those who can't do, teach" only sounds clever to those who have never taught. Just because we all had teachers at some point in our lives doesn't mean we have any idea how to successfully teach.
FarSightXR-20 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:29:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Khan Academy youtube videos to the rescue.
harchickgirl1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:44:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Came here to say this.
I had lunch at 4:30pm on Friday. Common occurrence. Frantic all day. Everybody wanted a piece of me. Came home with a headache.
Think how happy you are to send your kid back to school after a holiday. Now times it by 25.
But I love my job. I really do. Just sayin'.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:19:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Tried it. I had a degree and no idea what to do with it. So I decided on "why don't I teach?"
Wow, was I wrong. Holy shit. When we did a Meiers-Briggs test and they showed the results and only 4% of teachers were ISTJs like me, I thought "well, yeah but I'm smarter than them." (I have a tendency to be an asshole).
First semester of student teaching, which was limited to a couple of classes, on and off with the seasoned teacher, went... okay. I got through it. Second teaching semester where it was my ass to the wind, metaphorically speaking, where it was just me teaching nearly a full slate. I could not engage the kids, I hated every minute of it, meanwhile thinking "I could just get through this and i'll be a sub and use my free time to write." Eventually I couldn't take it anymore and I quit the program.
Teaching is not for the faint of heart.
hotspots_thanks ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:24:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I accepted a tutoring job for five kids from ages 5-8, with absolutely no idea what the tutoring would be, and NO experience working with kids. I was given my materials about ten minutes before I met the kids.
I could barely keep them in the classroom, much less learning and growing. I still have nightmares about that and should have walked out that day.
jaehoony ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:44:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But most of my highschool teachers were fucking imbeciles.
EroticCake ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:04:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Any professional space involving children in general. I can't count the amount of times as a childcare worker when people think they understand my work in ANY capacity because they used to be a fucking babysitter.
Volkar ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:15:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, it's my first year as a full time resident agronomy teacher (yay me !) and what's keeping me same is always ALWAYS having a backup plan/exercise/ lesson.
Also, I teach high schoolers and recently discovered the mighty power of detention hours. Wanna fuck with my lesson or exercise ? Fine, I'll fuck with your Thursday afternoon, you little shit ! Oh and guess what ?! I don't even have to show up for the detention ! The administration does that for me !
birdsofterrordise ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:23:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I tell EVERYONE that if you think teaching is easy and so well paid, go get your emergency certificate and go sub for a week. If they even last that, I will give my pay for a month. As a sub, I have to teach if I want to remain on the rosters with my districts and woo, scripted curriculum =[
Jumpy142 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:51:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I work with autistic kids, sometimes I almost go nuts and I am prepared.
maxpenny42 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:01:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I recently piloted a training program at work. I used to be a writing tutor and have attended plenty of training sessions similar to this at work. I also spent about a week preparing. It was very hard and challenging.
This was an hour long informal meeting where we discussed best practices for doing better work. How anyone could think teaching children all day long every day could be anything resembling easy I don't know.
mideon2000 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:13:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Gotta teach the parents too. Some are just plain shit.
saintsfan1622000 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:40:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My friend is a teacher, and his biggest area of struggle is relating to the kids/classroom management. He's improved since starting in August, but still is just uncomfortable I believe. I think it goes back to him not enjoying his time in high school and actually hating to the extend he's probably blocked it out of his mind. I think that makes him feel it's difficult to relate to the students, even though they're only 15 years younger than he is.
In a way, I feel I could do much better than him when it comes to relating to the kids and classroom management. To him arguing with the kids and telling them to sit down or stop talking or whatever is combative and unnatural. I'm someone who loves to argue and go back and forth with people, so I'd have no issue putting some student in his or her place. He's great when it comes to the actual instruction though, but at the same time I think I'd be a great history or civics teacher.
ba203 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:24:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh man, yeah. I worked in IT for eight years, then took a career break and taught english in Japan for 3 years. Holy shit, it's hard work! And running a 50 minute class is an artform, like a stage show that has to hit all the important plot points, and not run over or under time... And I was just an assistant teacher, I had the fun job, and I know for a fact that Japanese classrooms and students are worlds apart from what teachers face in the western world.
After my first year, I wanted to call up my high school teachers, apologise to and thank them.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:45:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am a writer and editor and people are always asking me "why don't you teach writing? You'd be good at it." What so many people don't realize is that you can be good at something but be absolute shit at explaining it well to others. I'm terrible at explaining things even to adults.
SoraDevin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:56:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hmm, in my experience teaching I disagree, but it would definitely depend on the age group. For instance fuck teaching 14 year olds
iseah100 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:00:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
God. This is what I want to do in 2 years when I graduate.
MisssW ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:28:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Came here to find this!! Just because you graduated school doesn't mean you are capable of going back and teaching kids.
PM_ME_UR_GOODIEZ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:59:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously... My day job is in technology, but I like to volunteer at schools through junior achievement. You basically teach the class for the day with help from the teacher. It is exhausting. I usually go to sleep at like 8 that night. Or take a nap when I get home.
andyweir ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:24:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Actually teaching kids is really easy if you give into the system in which you teach. The difficulty is realizing that when you start teaching, you actually don't get to teach the way you want to
I was in a teaching program last year and basically every week was already mapped out by a school board. At first I thought we got to map out a little schedule for the curriculum but I was 100% wrong. There was something made by the board that told us what we needed to talk about, how long we needed to talk about it, how to test it, and what the kids should know by the end of the lesson. I thought it was just something they gave us because we were going to the program. It wasn't
It actually explained those staff days and all those teacher learning days. The teachers had to keep going over that schedule to make sure they were on track
So at the end, it kinda seemed like I was a puppet but as long as I did what the sheet said, it didn't really matter whether or not I thought the kids learned anything. If I followed the schedule and fit didn't work, I couldn't be blamed for it
So if you actually want to go in there and make a difference, then it's gonna be super hard because there's so much in place that makes sure a teacher can't actually do that
bystandling ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:24:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Or on the other end of the spectrum you're in a district that doesn't provide a textbook for GEOMETRY of all classes, and expects you to use terrible materials they scavenged from the web and collated. Bleh. I follow the same curriculum but make my own materials including pages for my students' notebooks so they have something closer to a textbook they can use.
PoSKiix ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:14:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That is definitely not true for all schools
tmmtx ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:19:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teaching adults, just as bad as children.
[deleted] ยท -25 points ยท Posted at 13:04:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Wallmendinger ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:34:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe your speshul snowflake isn't as special as you think
Mathelicious ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:45:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am glad I have a kid free house. I do think that properly teaching your own child is something else than teaching a class. The evidence is all around us, the spoiled and screaming children are living proof.
PmMeGiftCardCodes ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:56:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was a sports coach for a number of years. And coaching is teaching. Trying to teach your own kid to swing a bat, throw a ball, ski down a hill is basically impossible. You have to get a coach/instructor to do it for you. I've seen it every day for years.
castafobe ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:08:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Eh, i don't know about that. My dad coached basically all my youth teams, from soccer to basketball to baseball. He was a great coach for all of us, and I loved that he could show me even more when we got home from practice. And i knew more than most kids from day one because my dad had already taught me at home before real practices started. I was the captain of my high school teams my senior year so he must've done something right.
dpdews ยท 782 points ยท Posted at 14:58:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Run a Restaurant. I'm speaking from experience. You think you will just spend your time chatting with your friends while your cooks make your food and your FOH staff bring you wine. But restaurants require constant attention to operate properly. So maybe you can talk with your friends, if you've already put in your 100 hours that week, and all of your staff has shown up, and it's a slow period, and none of your equipment has exploded, and the health inspector isn't there, and you're not running out of romaine/5-dollar-bills/vodka, and the sinks aren't clogged, and nobody's cut themselves too badly, and there's no delivery occurring, and there's no drunk needing to be ejected, and none of your staff needs to talk to you about a day off/their petty squabbles/wanting to leave early, and, and, and, and, and, and...
*Edit - To clarify: I'm not restaurant employee bashing here; I've been one for twenty years. I'm saying people who believe running a restaurant is easy don't consider that staff management takes time.
belethors_sister ยท 424 points ยท Posted at 17:56:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Having spent most of my life working in restaurants I'm pretty sure the first step in owning a restaurant is knowing nothing about doing so.
Second step is to show up randomly, yell at everyone for 'doing it wrong', try to show them the way you think is right (it isn't), piss off the staff, make a mess of everything, get in the way, then go home thinking you did nothing wrong.
reisalvador ยท 186 points ยท Posted at 19:16:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Now I understand the difference between running and owning a restaurant.
GrollTheLicker ยท 85 points ยท Posted at 19:49:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I lived with a chef for a few years (he was the head chef for about half of that) and the hatred they all had for the owner was intense.
I hated that fucker and I never even met him!
the general gist is that he refused to hire enough staff, constantly increased the opening hours and constantly said " It's cooking. My wife does it. It's not fucking difficult"
Twat
belethors_sister ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 19:53:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That sounds about right.
GrollTheLicker ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 19:58:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have a huge amount of respect for chefs cos of my mate. I mean its standing in a room that is uncomfortable and can be dangerous for REALLY LONG shifts while still doing a task that requires a lot of skill and creativity... and theres X amount of people in the room too when the room is really only big enough for X-1 people
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:53:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not to mention the consistency. If chefs had the consistency that computer programmers have, they'd never find another job
Gibboni5 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:49:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I could never imagine what it feels like being in a small room surrounded by volcano level heat for 8 hours.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:21:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So, how did that whole selling into slavery fiasco go down? You apparently didn't murder your brother...
kallicks ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:00:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a Cook training to be a Chef there really is never enough staff in the kitchen.
fuckyourstuff ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 20:25:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I served at a pizza restaurant that was part of a small 4-location, family owned chain so I never saw the owner but the GM (who is good friends with the owner) was kind of a dick. One night during a rush I had two orders coming up at the same time that were going to two adjacent tables. I decided how I was going to run them and as I'm about to go to action the GM walks up, grabs one of the orders, and says "I'll take this one, you take that one". I said "don't worry, I got it" and he responds with, and I quote, "do what I fuckin' tell you to do" and walks off. I just stand at the line watching him because he runs them to the wrong table.
He was the kind of guy who tried to "help" everybody in the most alpha male way possible and in doing so was more prone to screwing things up.
beenusse ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:35:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Also live in a different city and only show up if you've slept in the restaurant because you were on the piss the night before
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:37:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm guessing on the piss is British for drunk?
vo5100 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:55:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nods I sometimes forget that Americans and British have been separated by a Massive Ocean for a few centuries and as such have cultural differences
BaneWraith ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:59:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sounds like the owner of the restaurant i used to work at
Chantasuta ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:42:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This makes me really glad that the owners of the cafรฉ I currently work at both came from restaurant backgrounds and brought the chef from the hotel one worked at with them.
It makes for a much smoother work environment when the people running the show know what they're doing.
goshin2568 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:28:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is easily the most accurate thing I've ever read on reddit
Bluudxhound ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:59:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This comment is so relevant to me right now that it hurts.
Wherearemylegs ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:05:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've seen this so many times on TV that I'm glad I worked at the one restaurant that was different. Our owner would come in very rarely (monthly at most), talk to us like we're humans, compliment us on our pizza making techniques, and order his free VIP-discounted pizza. Then he'd just head out. Maybe it's because he always came during the after lunch slowdown. Maybe he's just levelheaded.
dpdews ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:43:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ha! I've worked for those guys, too. I've also worked for the guys who do know the right way and are happy to teach it. Like with most places, it depends on the people.
Degg19 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:08:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
this is exactly what my boss did. except he was also the cook 3 out of 7 days. his cooking was pretty good but he was such an up your ass douchebag.
chakrablocker ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:01:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't realize how common that was.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:12:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Any small business.
Archimedes82 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:53:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you work where I do then you forgot: get piss drunk and almost fall into the fryer or onto the flat top. Other than that, spot on
MrsCustardSeesYou ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:23:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Didn't you forget the part where a large group of your friends come in and you allow them to be comped for everything while they make a massive nuisance of themselves with special orders, amongst other things, and then tip nothing to your waitstaff?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:45:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Step 3, sit there and shove food in your face while everybody else is mad busy during a rush
cats_suck ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:46:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sounds like you need to open your own restaurant!
belethors_sister ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:47:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can't, I know too much about how to not be a shitty owner :/
thewolfsong ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:39:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This sounds like a wonderful career. Where do I sign up
Hax_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:06:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My aunt and uncle have opened 3 total restaurants and one just last November. My uncle lives down here (they live in another city where the other restaurant is) and works literally every day. He's had maybe 5 days off in the past 3 months, and then the other 6 months renovating the place to open. He opens at 5:30am and sometimes doesn't go home until 6pm on. He is constantly cooking and still training people. He goes to the store when we run out of food before an order is in and is all around the most hard working person I know. I'm grateful to have him as a boss because he actually knows what he's doing and isn't a flake like you're describing previous employers.
Dent18 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:43:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've watched so much Kitchen Nightmares that I'd never, ever, ever consider working anywhere near a restaurant
sniperwhg ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:18:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
THE CHICKEN IS FUCKIN RAW, YOU PILLOCK
vo5100 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:58:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
WHAT ARE YOU?!
"AnIdiotSandwich"
TheShadowCat ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:31:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wish there was a way to short sell a new restaurant.
barrydingal ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:32:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, you probably pay the servers less than minimum wage, and everybody else just over it if at all. They don't care about your problems either. Everybody has a life, they only work at your shitty restaurant to be paid.
urnotserious ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:27:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Multiple restaurant owner, only fast casual units. I mention that because it means that we have no servers so we pay every single one of them way over the minimum wage. There's a reason why restaurant wages are set up in a way they are. Ask away what you want.
barrydingal ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 21:25:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Way over like $.25 over or way over like an actual livable wage?
urnotserious ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:35:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What would be livable wage in a city like Dallas according to you?
wheelbra ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:55:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, if you paid them more, you'd have to dramatically raise prices. The restaurant business it's extremely competitive.
80_firebird ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:00:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
While servers may officially be paid less than minimum. They will always make at least minimum wage. It's my experience that servers make pretty damn good money for the work they do.
barrydingal ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:53:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fair point, but the only a fraction comes from the restaurant itself. Which is my point.
chickenmann72 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:34:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Gm at a restaurant with servers reporting in. Every single one of my servers makes nearly double what I make per hour, if you count cash and credit tips. If you only count credit tips, they all still make more than me.
I have one server who just bought a new Lexus. Paid for it all cash up front. Serving in some ways is the ultimate meritocracy in the food business.
TheFuckNameYouWant ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:17:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's not that simple, but hey, you probably know better than someone with years and years of experience, so I won't even try.
barrydingal ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 19:22:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What was the point in posting a comment then, dumbass?
TheFuckNameYouWant ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:25:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be a snarky little fuck, just like you, obviously.
barrydingal ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 19:28:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Welcome to the club.
TheFuckNameYouWant ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:06:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks!
Win_or_Die ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:50:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This! Even just an assistant manager at a corporation has a ton of work. But I'm learning a lot and will have the skills eventually through running other businesses first.
stefandraganovic ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:52:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh this, this so much I've spent some time working at my uncle's restaurant and boy oh boy the things that you need to watch out for.
Vomath ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:12:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So my dream when I retire is to open a tiny pizza takeaway spot in the mountains and mostly be a ski bum. I don't care if the pizza place makes money, I just want it to not lose money.
I know dick all about running a restaurant (but I do make a mighty fine pizza). How unrealistic is this plan?
soladeda ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:45:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
1/3 making pizzas, 2/3 running a business (paperwork, stock, cleaning, etc business stuff)
Throwing random percentages around, but a lot of it is running a business.
dpdews ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:02:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is 100% unrealistic. Ski locations have expensive rent and limited profit windows (ski season), but you will probably need to pay rent all year. So you need to be open, be busy, and be efficient during that time. If you close too much you won't make enough money. If you let somebody else run it they won't care enough to run it properly and/or steal from you. Don't do this. Sell anthropomorphic animal ski hats.
line6210 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:40:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I donno how I would be able to keep an employee if I owned a Restaurant, I would be firing people left and right for just missing work or showing up late.
therrrn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:50:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I came here to read this answer. I was seriously expecting it to be at the top of the list and was absolutely baffled when I saw it wasn't.
blahtender ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:29:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh... You meant run a profitable restaurant. Yeah that takes a fuck ton of work and a good amount of people accepting that you're an asshole at work but a good person in all other aspects.
If you're a shitty person, you can't make a restaurant work. It takes to much respect and trust from your employees.
maxpenny42 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:18:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Excuse me sir but I think I've watched kitchen nightmares enough to know how to run a successful restaurant. All I need is fresh ingredients, a fire under my ass, and rustic. I'm still trying to get the hang of what rustic means but I know having rustic is essential
PartyPorpoise ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:42:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Aren't the statistics that something like 80% of new restaurants fail in the first 5 years?
In addition to all the stuff you listed, planning the restaurant is a lot of work. You need a good location, good menu, all that stuff. Most of the restaurants on Kitchen Nightmares end up failing after the show. You have a sucky restaurant that's failing due to poor management and dumb ideas. Ramsey comes in to give them a good menu, train the staff, and change the decor, but all of that stuff doesn't matter when there's bad management. They'll mess up all of the stuff he fixed and continue with other problems.
KillerPacifist1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:57:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've worked in a restaurant before and I was continually surprised how much work such a small building could produce.
HopalikaX ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:05:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
College roommate's father has 2 restaurants. The guy was (is, he is still going strong) a machine. Works 7 days a week, sleeping a max of 5 hours a night, for 20+ years and absolutely loving it.
WiFiForeheadWrinkles ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:00:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a student health inspector... just knowing the requirements a health authority demands before you can even open is enough to turn me off of running a restaurant.
nyvz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:30:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I thought this would be so much farther up, but came hear to say this too.
Abstruse ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:37:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How to Own a Successful Restaurant Step One:
Hire an expert to manage the place so you don't fuck it up.
bubongo ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:44:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do you know how to make a small fortune? I'll tell you, it's easy. Start with a large fortune and then open a restaurant.
PolarSquirrelBear ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:45:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You said it at the end in pretty much one of the key points to running a successful restaurant. Employee management.
Everything else will come if you have good, well taken care of employees. Your food will be great, service will be great, clogs and things will be manageable because you have employees taking care of the place.
Time and time again I see restaurants fail with owners trying to improve on specific aspects, when they fail to see that yeah, sure Bobby Employee shows up everyday, but he's simply not that great. Get rid of him and hire someone who can do both.
moyno85 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:26:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Settle down m8
Meowymeow88 ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 20:09:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It sounds like you are the typical restaurant manager / owner that overworks and underpays their staff, then ends up with bad employees and many employees that don't give a fuck.
You get what you pay for. And your employees give you as much professionalism and respect as you show them, both financially and otherwise.
dpdews ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:36:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know that paying people better, keeping their hours manageable (for them), and showing them respect as earned does lessen those problems, because that's what I did. Unfortunately, this does not eliminate those problems. There will always be staff who care and staff who don't. Sometimes the latitude you offer staff is rewarded with loyalty and other times you are faced with habitual lateness, theft, belligerence, vandalism, and "employees that don't give a -".
It would be a lot easier to run a restaurant if all the people in it were as professional as can be. That's not the typical case, unfortunately. This goes to the whole point of the original question: Everyone thinks they can run a restaurant, but unless you've done it you cannot understand the difficulties.
Thank you for your comment.
manofmonkey ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:30:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is 100% correct. You can provide great wages and be super respectful but even the best employees can cause problems. Yes one employee may only cause a minor problem here and there but when you have a bunch of employees then it all adds up. Then you sometimes people giving shit for "hardly having to work" because you aren't there for 8 hours a day like they are. They don't realize that youre out paying the bills, getting inventory, updating licenses, going to state required training, learning new laws, dealing with frivolous lawsuits, and so many other things. Like you said you can't know what running a restaurant is like until you have done it.
Mojo_666 ยท 920 points ยท Posted at 13:32:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
IT, there are so many amateurs working in the field who know how a home computer works but has not the first clue about corporate level IT.
eatonsht ยท 107 points ยท Posted at 16:33:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd like to follow that up with the amount of people who lie on their resumes to get a job and end up sitting there doing nothing after they get hired. This is the main reason I quit the industry entirely. Anyone can say they know how to program/admin and there are few checks and balances to ensure quality. To top it off you have business grad management who aren't tech savvy that make hires based on their gut, then won't fire because it would make them look bad. Fuck IT I don't miss you at all
oldnyoung ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 19:55:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"I'm good at brain dumping cert exams, so I'm a Cisco, Windows, and VMware expert."
LifeIsOnTheWire ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 18:38:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You left the IT trade because there were too many under qualified people?
I agree that it is somewhat a problem, but you just need to work hard at outlining their shortcomings.
I used to work on a team with 3 other guys that were all very underqualified, and had no experience with the software we were using. Our boss didn't want to fire anyone, he wanted me to train and develop them.
Not being able to keep up with the work, and having no time to train anyone, I eventually just wrote a formal business letter to my boss and his boss outlining how much work was not getting done, and that I wanted them fired and permission to hire 1 qualified person.
My boss's boss loved the idea of saving money, and I was allowed to personally hire a partner. We both receive a nice biannual bonus if we keep ahead of our work.
Basically you need to be a cutthroat snitch, and you need to appeal to your businesses desire to get stuff done.
eatonsht ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:55:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My boss was too busy kissing his bosses ass to notice what was happening on the team. When we interviewed several potential new candidates my coworker and I, who are the two that completed most of the work, were asked to sit in and provide recommendations. Of the four new hires he made, we recommended against hiring three of them and for hiring one of them. The three we recommended against turned out to be a disaster.
Everything you said assumes you have a reasonable and competent manager. During my 10 year career I only managed to find one qualified manager and the rest were absolutely deplorable. I have so many many stories from my time in the industry. Everything boils down to office politics in the end
Maoman1 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:50:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You really shouldn't direct your negativity to IT. Instead of saying "Fuck IT I don't miss you at all," you should instead think of that specific job as shitty and say "Fuck that boss and those coworkers I don't miss you at all." IT with a good boss and team is as pleasant as any other job with a good boss and team, assuming you like the actual job itself.
eatonsht ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:31:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Naw man I had 8 different jobs and they all blew. It is full of a bunch of amateurs who don't know what they are doing.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 02:46:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
eatonsht ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 04:16:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm in a better place now. It's all water under the bridge and happy trails these days.
Brakamow ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:43:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What do you do now?
eatonsht ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 04:44:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Second year of medical school. Love it every day.
occams--chainsaw ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 02:01:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
not the best idea to give to people. for every situation where one person is stuck with under-qualified employees, there are five more where someone only thinks everyone else is unqualified, because they're too ignorant to realize they're in the same boat.. and you end up with people trying to get each other fired, causing management to just stop listening and you'll never end up getting anyone competent
wanking_creepily ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:34:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is true. People who aren't competent at are unlikely to be able to judge the competence of others.
Also you can end up with a dead sea effect where if anyone competent does happen to get hired, they leave as soon as they are able.
LifeIsOnTheWire ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:16:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thats why you come up with a business plan, make it sound professional, and make sure it makes sense.
You don't even have to go as far as that. You can just do your best to make sure the shortcomings, and errors of others are more noticed. Just make sure that everything they do wrong sticks out like a sore thumb.
PooColorLady ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:20:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Every teacher talks about IT burnout. We never believe them and assume they became teachers because they couldnt hack it in the real world.
Most the people I graduated with are about one failed ping away from anervous breakdown. Shit gets heavy. And dont get me started on the hours...
marchmay ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:47:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Please tell me how to lie on my resume to get these people's jobs. I'm a mechanical engineer but I can do at least as much as the entry level data analyst.
eatonsht ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:32:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The only guy we recommended for a job was a former mechanical engineer. He was really good. I would hire another one if I could.
scootscoot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:21:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd quit if I could make the money elsewhere.
Capncrunchie ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:09:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, fuck IT!
Gibboni5 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:55:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everybody has been beating on me for years that this is hard and difficult fuck that, this is what i truly want to do with my life no matter how wrenching it is
Waxgains ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:40:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fuck IT could be on a shirt.
SteveJEO ยท 358 points ยท Posted at 14:48:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yup.
I'd go so far as to say most of them don't even know how a home computer works. They're consumers with too much information.
Using firefox and reading shit about linux does not make you a 'pro'.
semioticmadness ยท 357 points ยท Posted at 16:47:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Hey, Joan, I figured out my Firefox problem. I'm not in the 'sudoers file'. Could you put me in that and let me know when you're finished? Thx."
"I'm not going to do that for you Bill"
"Why not?!"
"Well, for one thing, your workstation is running Windows."
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 22:06:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
User: "I am a linux expert"
Me: "Oh yeah? What distros are your favorite"
User: "I run Linux on my desktop"
Me: "OK, what is the desktop you use? I like Gnome, but KDE is cool".
User: "You don't know crap about Linux, the desktop is a Dell. Who would by a PC named gnome and you are making up KDE"
Me "Oh, I see, I bet you use Unity"
User: "I thought you were an expert? I already said I use Linux, it is made by Ubuntu, not Unity, duh. It is so easy, just like windows 7. I don't know why you tech engineers make so much when all you have to do is click on things."
Me: "..."
Tyler11223344 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:53:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Blood pressure rising
brickmack ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:29:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Unity gets shit on a lot, but I really like it
SteveJEO ยท 110 points ยท Posted at 16:54:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In house developers.
Q: What permissions does this app need?
A: It needs enterprise admin and sql SA to all 5 cluster instances...
sonofalink ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 19:04:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I had a boss who's in house app required the user have domain admin rights to run it. It was all fun and games until one of the HR people accidentally deleted the entire company from Active Directory.
rawfodog ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 20:59:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh my god. How big was the company, and how long did it take you all to reconcile that??
sonofalink ยท 46 points ยท Posted at 21:16:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
270 people. I can't honestly remember what we did to fix it but it took all day.
So basically my boss was insane (I have many stories) but here is the story behind this one.
The boss (head of IT) had this crazy program that ran directly on the server (he saw desktops and laptops as "toys" and said they could not handle business software) so people had to log into the server via terminal services to use it. The server just so happen to also be the domain controller. If I'm not mistaken, only domain admins can remote into those (at least that's what he said...) The program did a lot of contract tracking, that was its main purpose. But there was another part that handled adding and removing people from distribution lists.
One day an HR person wanted to remove one of the distribution lists. This list had practically everyone in the company on it. So she went to the list and hit delete. But it said she had to remove all of the people first. So she selected all of the people and hit delete. Then, suddenly everyone was locked out of their desktops.
So "delete" in the distribution list management program apparently deletes the person from active directory, as I learned when my boss was yelling at the HR person later. What she wanted was "remove from distribution list" which was in a submenu. I asked why the hell he would include that menu item in a distribution list program and not have any warning and he told me "warnings are for sissies. When you're at war, the enemy doesn't warn you that he is about to fire."
I no longer work there. But I'm glad I did. Just for my crazy boss stories.
kingmario75 ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 22:21:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
/r/talesfromtechsupport would probably love this story!
PaulTagg ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 05:48:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
oh... I'm not there? whoops
rawfodog ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:50:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Jesus christ. And that dude is the department HEAD.. how can he even yell at the HR person for messing that up. He/she shouldn't even come close to that kind of allowance good lord
Doctah_Whoopass ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:14:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is the point where assault is justafiable.
Kinderschlager ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:36:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
so now one existed as far as your system was concerned? you poor fuck. though that is hilarious
PetahOsiris ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:56:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I laughed.....and laughed and laughed.....for like 5 minutes straight at this. That is truly awful.
I'm going to get big posters of It's all fun and games until someone deletes the company from Active Directory printed up for around the office.
grepnork ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 22:33:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I went into a company in the mid 2000s to rebuild their crappy dreamweaver website into something sharp.
After and hour so of looking over the code I realised their HR database (complete with full names, social security numbers, home addresses, salary details etc) was connected to their website in order to display a staff directory, and that it connected via the SQL superuser. No one in IT gave a damn until I mentioned what their salaries were.
Sector_Corrupt ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 19:13:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well why would we bother with minimal permissions to things when it means having to put in actual work? Just give us access to everything!
Source: Am a software developer at a security company. We know all about the value of using minimally permissioned accounts, but by god is it tempting to just use the same user to create all the tables etc. as we use to do the normal app-use.
medic8388 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:46:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh hell no.... I'm an in house developer for my company and I make damn sure nothing uses admin or Sa accounts. I sure that In the event we wake up tomorrow and the servers have caught fire there's no way any of the higher ups (who don't understand) can say "that program you wrote did this!"
cipher315 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:40:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a security analyst this reinforces my wish to just have a "denied" stamp that I can just use on every proposal that comes across my desk
Even other IT pros piss me off some times. as they will do things that are convent but insecure.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:41:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
2real4me
MattGeddon ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:38:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Unfortunately all too common IME
SteveJEO ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 18:46:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
On thursday I was told to give a 12 core 3.5Ghz machine with 256 GB ram and SSD's (and cluster admin) to a dev because 'his single thread 32 bit java app' was too slow and 'it's politics'.
Will_Man_Dude ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:08:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If I had that computer it would be like Cameron's dad Ferrari. I wouldn't use it I would just look at it and rub the case with diapers. And I honesty can't think of any reason a single user would need more than 8 cores and 32 GB of ram.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:32:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Will_Man_Dude ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:34:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It'll be some time untill we laugh at 32gb of ram when my laptop my high school gave me has 4gb and you can buy most phones with 16gb of storage let alone ram.
Heimdahl ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:36:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not really a single user as noone would create that on it's own, but you could say that a mad engineer, who basically loads up a complete cad modell of anything big, could bring 32GB of RAM to it's knees pretty fast.
Will_Man_Dude ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:18:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
all the adobe stuff could bring 32GB down pretty quick as well. Just from my experience but I never knew how CAD was with RAM.
Eladriol ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:01:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is that as stupid as I think it is?
SteveJEO ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:25:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yup.
He'll get to keep it too. I fucking know he'll bitch to keep the machine and management will cave cos his shit code will look faster.
Eladriol ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:33:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is there not scope for accidentally giving him only 8GB of ram and seeing if he ever notices the difference? I'm sure if the casing has stripes and "military grade" all over it it'll be fine.
Also how the fuck is a developer unaware of what 32 bit means, when python gave me a memory error for exactly that reason it took me exactly 2 minutes to google the freaking problem lol.
SteveJEO ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:54:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'll give you a quote here.
"Servers aren't my responsibility"
My last budget request included a quote for 2 gallons of petrol.
RickAndMorty_forever ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:35:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Feels good being a diva developer sometimes!
aphd ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:55:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Oh ok no problem"
Erikster ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:21:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My blood pressure increased.
Notenough1997 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:25:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is this a joke about administration privileges?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:57:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ah go for it. What could go wrong?
RickAndMorty_forever ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:37:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Jeez. It's a pain in the ass, but before I give out API credentials I make sure they have their own postgres user with both column and row level security that directly maps to their API route access model. Security is a whore, a whore that might save your ass someday.
So a superwhore.
R3ap3r973 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:07:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
sudo order corn
yomerol ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:05:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
http://dilbert.com/strip/2013-01-09
ohlookahipster ยท 137 points ยท Posted at 17:28:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Mother. Fucking. Hacker. Aw yeah.
godless-life ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:35:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You don't need sudo for a ping, last time I checked.
lcarsos ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 17:50:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You do if you want -f
BlatSchap ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:29:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Nope, ping always runs as root as it needs to
listen to a port lower than 1024create a raw socket. Just see the flags:The 's' in there indicates that the executable will be executed using the rights of the owner, in this case root.
godless-life ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:38:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Huh, interesting. But why don't I need to authenticate a ping when running it as a regular user? Does it auto-execute as root without asking for authentication?
BlatSchap ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 19:45:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly. Each command having the 's' flag set and having 'root' as the owner will run with sudo rights automatically. It is therefore very important that these commands don't have any exploitable bugs which could run arbitrary code in them. As you can imagine, this is only used for very few commands such as ping and sudo (how else would sudo give a user root rights?).
At the the university I studied last year the administrators had set an apt update command as being executable by a normal user with root rights, thinking everyone should be able to install updates. We exploited a 'bug' in apt (though apt is never supposed to be used this way!) which would span a root shell.. fun times.
godless-life ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:53:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wow, learned something new, thanks! And I was thinking particularly about possible exploits, although I guess the ping-routine has been checked time and time again.
With apt as root, wouldn't you be potentially able to add any repository (i.e. your own), install any software from there (rootkit?) and take over the system completely?
BlatSchap ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:12:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly!
donjulioanejo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:44:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Would you be willing to share what the bug is? I'm genuinely curious now.
BlatSchap ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:41:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It wasn't really a bug in apt-get (that's why I surrounded it with quotation marks), as apt-get is never supposed to be run by ordinary users as root. I don't have the exact method at hand (lost in my student mailbox I don't have access to anymore), but it was something along the lines of:
Because all scripts in packages are run as root, this dropped us to a root shell..
donjulioanejo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:03:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Rofl. Genius!
redbo ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:29:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Actually it's ran as root because it needs a raw socket to send ICMP packets.
BlatSchap ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:45:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh doh, ICMP obviously doesn't have a port associated with it. Thanks!
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:45:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
ICMP ping doesn't use port numbers, it runs on the internet layer.
ICMP Echo Request (ping) is ICMP type 8 code 0, the echo is type 0 code 0.
Here is the standard: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc792
CeilingFanBlade ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:01:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
System.out.print("You've been hacked!");
Amberleaf29 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 09:48:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is that a reference to something?
ohlookahipster ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:51:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's a command in Linux that has multiple uses. Some people use it to keep their computer from sleeping.
If you stack enough computers together and all ping one site together, you can overload the servers.
Seminal_Sound ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:05:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
KeeperDe ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:07:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd just install google ultron.
Jer_Cough ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:01:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"I just ran PCOptimizer. Should be good now."
Amj161 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:49:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you're currently at that stage and trying to learn Linux, what would you suggest to learn more to get better at IT stuff?
SteveJEO ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:09:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
*Nix is just an OS.
You need to understand why the OS behaves the way it does and the layers of abstraction.
A computer is just a calculator with better memory and some big assed storage. Os's just instruct the calculator. It's not magic.
If you're really interested grab yourself an old 386/486 machine or something and run dos or 1.1 kernel or something.
Amj161 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:44:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Alright, thanks for the input and I'll look into that
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:39:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Amj161 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:50:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wow, that's a lot of info! I'm right now working my way slowly through java, I'm working on understanding interfaces now. I think once I have a better grasp on java I'll move over to C++ (I've already learned HTML and bits and pieces of JavaScript and Python).
I'm playing around with Ubuntu, I tried installing Kali that way I would just be going head first into uncharted waters but there's an error I consistently would get when installing it on my laptop. I'm also running Kali on my laptop, playing around with getting into my home WiFi but I can't really figure it out and googling hacking tips seems like a little bit of a bad idea...
Making an OS seems pretty cool and hard, so I'll definitely look into that
I've played around with virtual machines a little bit before, but not much.
I think mainly I'm just looking at learning how to program so I can make my Raspberry Pi do cool things like I hear about a lot of people doing, networking stuff and some hacking stuff. I'm pretty good on the hardware side of things so I'm just curious about learning about the software side
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:10:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Amj161 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:04:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How would I avoid bad JavaScript or C++ habits?
I've always been tempted to get a VPN but haven't, might want to now. I have a burner laptop that's not Lenovo so I'm good there.
What's the benefit of using Debian or CentOs?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:15:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Amj161 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:51:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Alright, that makes sense.
Thanks again for all the help, I'll definitely check all this out!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:11:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
SteveJEO ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:05:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do you understand why I said it?
Carnivorous_Jesus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:04:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yesterday I learned (YIL?) that I'm not an admin on my own computer...
Probably better that way.
ViolentThespian ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:49:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
All it takes to show me how computer illiterate I am is to read these threads on Reddit. Two comments in and I have no idea what you guys are talking about.
TheBurgerBucket ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:28:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Downloads adobe reader"
FarSightXR-20 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:31:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
BUT I GOT MY XBOX TO RUN LINUX
conquererspledge ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:31:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I love you.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:13:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hahah this is so me
_FranklY ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:29:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I (unfortunately) know how they work, and how to fix them. People keep saying I should go into IT but I really don't want to
SteveJEO ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:41:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
People keep telling me the same thing about my photography.
It's kinda ruined both hobbies.
_FranklY ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 18:20:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography is difficult though, IT is not, you just have to be patient and masochistic
infosecstoner ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:58:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Because setting exposure is sooooooo much harder than debugging a TLS/SSL handshake failure with wireshark. Comparing photography with real IT show you know nothing about IT.
_FranklY ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 19:27:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously? Photography is more than just "setting exposure", it's art, IT, either works or you fucked up
infosecstoner ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:29:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You know what else is art? http://www.papermag.com/an-artist-is-protesting-art-world-bullshit-by-sitting-naked-on-a-toile-1565115677.html
You can't just call something art and it becomes something that requires skill to make. How does a system working or not working mean that the field isn't hard or complex?
infosecstoner ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:31:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is art too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ. Art is subjective. Just because something is art doesn't mean it is complex or requires skill. Just like pissing in a jar or sitting on a toilet
[deleted] ยท -24 points ยท Posted at 15:19:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Using Firefox makes you a fuccboi and Linux makes you a 4channer.
EVILEMU ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:42:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Are you intentionally trying to perpetuate the stereotype here lol?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:14:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Holy shit, all these down votes for making a joke. Yes, I am trying to perpetuate a stereotype, and yes, it is a joke.
EVILEMU ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:41:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Looks like you forgot your /s tag bubby
HubbaMaBubba ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:30:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Bourkestrom ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 17:30:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Problem with this is how the fuck do you become a "professional" in IT without experience? College courses are either completely unrelated and most certs will still leave you lacking in that real world experience you need to know shit about corporate level IT.
Source: Worked in outsourced IT, for one week I was the IT department for over 20 companies at once, so I know what a cluster-fuck corporate level IT can be.
EDIT: When I say I was the IT department, I mean that literally, nobody else was in the office for that week, quitting felt unbelievably good.
RulerOf ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:24:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You get experience by being on a help desk that lets you work your way into projects where you pick up more skills.
Anyone who meets the stereotype of "good with computers" can swap a keyboard or set up a workstation so that the seasoned IT pros don't have to. Then when you're not doing that, you help the more experienced guys do their work and learn something along the way.
This isn't something that you can do at every company, either. It takes the right kind of organization to leave room for a help desk jockey to have downtime between tickets. I'm just sharing no what worked for me.
Maoman1 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:52:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What exactly do you look for the find such a job? I've been looking to change careers and seriously considering IT. An entry level job like you describe - setting up workstations and swapping hardware while still being allowed to tag along on more complicated jobs just to learn - is precisely what I'd consider an ideal beginning job. It's similar to how I learned my current job, an auto locksmith. I rode along with a much more experienced driver and unlocked cars but got to watch and ask questions while he did more complex stuff like picked house locks, replaced lost car keys, and repaired or replaced veh ignitions.
RulerOf ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:13:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My first foray into enterprise IT was working for a callcenter. They have a lot of computers but not necessarily a lot of users that you support directly, which limited ticket volume.
A similar environment would be a larger school district. The biggest set of users (students) wouldn't be submitting tickets directly, but you'll still be working at a scale that facilitates expanding your skill set, and there will be a pretty big budget that will allow for interesting project work.
Stay away from small business, at least if you want to acquire new skills. That stuff is almost entirely maintenance. Somewhere with 100-300 machines (at least for which you are responsible) is probably the sweet spot. And the pay will probably suck. :P
wumbo105 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:16:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can confirm. Graduated with my IT degree a few months ago. Am now an IT director at a local high school and have learned more in my first 3 weeks than in my whole 4 years of college.
There wasn't much in those classes that I didn't already know from background knowledge of being a lifelong computer guy.
paracelsus23 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:32:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
First I reformatted my home computer. Then I built one from scratch. Then I shared a printer and connected it. Then I set up a dedicated file server. Then I reformatted the file server from a desktop OS to a server OS. On and on. I learned about routing tables, group policies, exchange administration, and more from setting things up on home computers. It takes time and money - but old hardware is often good enough for learning purposes. My domain controller (with Windows 2000) was a Pentium Pro 200 mhz. It was slow but it let me learn. There's a lot you can teach yourself if you're willing to mess around.
ireallywonderhowlong ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:34:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well I intern as an assistant for my high schools it he's taught me about active directory being a sys admin etc.
DoctorWaluigiTime ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 21:02:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And I know we joke a lot about "lol IT just googles the problem 90% of the time..." It's kinda true, but:
Mojo_666 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:10:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nail firmly planted on the head there pal.
GeneralButts ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:04:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As someone struggling with impostor-syndrome as I'm studying to get into IT.. this makes me feel more confident about the skills I have. Thanks!
twillerd ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 17:30:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
18 year old with my first day of contract IT work monday. I know my shit, but i know how much i dont know, so i feel exactly like that
Mojo_666 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 19:42:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you said that in an interview with me you would probably be hired, just remember you said this, it won't ever change.
MsKim ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:59:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
To be fair, especially in small businesses, the manager or owner usually picks the nerdiest guy in the office and says "hey can you fix this router for me". Pretty soon that guy becomes the de facto IT person even though he has only picked up his skills on Google.
friday14th ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:24:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well, I'm an Analyst and I picked up my whole career on Google, so I think this is a reasonable way of going about things.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:24:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It for 10 years (with child care sprinkled in those years). Google has taught me more than school ever did.
MsKim ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:42:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Me to since I was usually the nerdiest person in the office Google was my savior.
not_mantiteo ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:07:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
At what point do you consider someone a "pro"? Several certificates? In addition to at least 2 years of school? I have all that but not sure I would consider myself a "pro". If I relearned SQL and learned how to batch code maybe. My networking knowledge is also rusty.
charliebrown1321 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:52:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is an issue in IT in general I think. Some people are experts in a single area and make a living off that, others are highly knowledge (but not experts) in a large variety of areas and make a living as a more "jack of all trades".
Really I think all that is important is being honest with yourself about your skill set and trying to find opportunities where you can leverage it well.
birdsofterrordise ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:45:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When I look at a lot of IT job listings though, it seems to rattle off the entire can of alphabet soup that you need proficiency in. I think some of it is HR's fault for writing jobs like you need to have every language under the sun and the actual skills or proficiency needed is not even highlighted or mentioned.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:15:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's my experience that the Jack of All Trades guys thrive in small environments where people need a superman, but in large places they can't hang because everyone knows a little bit about stuff, but they all have deep-dive specialization.
charliebrown1321 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:43:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I completely agree, with the small caveat that even in large corporations, specific groups can be very isolated from the "core operations" and thus go back to requiring more generalized people.
Having said that, all my experience is in the telecom side of things, and it may be very different in other portions of the tech world.
friday14th ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:21:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've saved our company millions by telling the IT guys what is wrong with the system.
Everyone's computers slowing down randomly including taking 30 mins to log in? IT deny everything. I traced it to the windows update bug that fires up several times a days and emailed them with the solution bcc'ing a bunch of unhappy users. Suddenly it all works, oh how did that happen?
When you have only 3 IT guys for 300 people, they aren't that interested in getting to the bottom of the problem.
donjulioanejo ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:54:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When you have 3 IT for 300 people and have any complexity in your environment, the IT guys are lucky to have 5 minutes to get a coffee.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:23:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
IT Service Desk Supervisor here. I can't even guess how many interviews I've had where someone claims to have experience, and when I drill down with questions to find out more, it's clear that they think they can do IT work because "They like putting their PC together."
grendel_x86 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:43:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Especially in a software dev company.
Them :"Can you install the new X, I did at home, and it works better" Me:"um, can you ask me when I'm not at the urinal?" "I'm pretty sure your stuff won't worry with y & z, or other versions of X" " And I'm pretty sure we need to get new licenses" Them : "we just use my license for everyone, just upgrade y&z then, it's not that hard"
sfw_reddit ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:05:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, but being great at consumer electronics helps a long way compared to only learn via training and no hands on experience.
Man, I'm surprised there are Level 3 Support who never worked on Macs but are SMEs.
or
Engineers who can write a script to make their coffee, login and Slack open at the same time but don't know how to restart their machine.
Former IT, now Engineer. BTW, how do you turn off a Linuxbook?
donjulioanejo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:52:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
shutdown -h now
FugitivePlatypus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:04:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
IrrelevantLeprechaun ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:20:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Many IT people use google a LOT.
CostcoTimeMachine ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 18:14:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That doesn't necessarily mean they are unqualified. You don't need to know everything. A professional knows how to look something up and figure it out. A solid understanding of the basics and the ability to understand something new is the key to being a good IT professional or software engineer. Critical thinking skills. Someone who knows what they know, but can't figure out shit about what they don't already know is useless. If I hear someone say, "I don't know how to do that", I know where they stand. Someone who hits Google to learn = gold.
SSChicken ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:44:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I taught started teaching VMware last semester and that's something I tried to make sure my students knew. You don't need to remember specifically how to enable jumbo frames or to create and combine extents of vmfs3 partitions or flags to set to allow these two processors to smoothly vmotion.
You need to know those things exist and the theory behind them though. Once you know they are there and what they do, Google can help you from there on how to set them up.
Johnnyhiveisalive ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:11:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Using the correct reference material is bad?
IrrelevantLeprechaun ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:13:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm saying most IT issues can be solved by using google. Many IT places use google because they don't know how to solve it themselves. Fake it til you make it.
Johnnyhiveisalive ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:32:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In my experience, most IT issues persist because nobody tells IT about them. They just work around it for years until someone says: "Your process is madness", generally why people hate those 'consultants', but they do serve a purpose, they can take someone's role and break down what they are actually doing, figure out why it's taking them so long to do something which should be trivially solved with a few keystrokes but the user has resisted learning or has never been made aware of the feature. It's a common failing in software that the documentation wasn't written or wasn't written well so nobody can understand how to use it except the person who made it.. Hmm, went into one. Point is, people who aren't in IT can't even recognize most IT issues, wouldn't know how to start looking for the answer, or even that it is fixable.
I'm generally only googling to get the correct syntax to obtuse command line parameters.. Or to figure out what the differences are between the billion Intel chips that came out last quarter, to see which one represents the best value for our CAD engineers.. Frustrating stuff. Of course, often you'll be able to query something in front of a user and they can read the answer themselves: "how to open XML in libreoffice calc"... I'm not memorising the menu placement of a shit tonne of programs. That's what references are for, and buy searching, I'm showing the user how to use the reference, win win!
tl;dr: Google good, other words.
Mojo_666 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:43:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Google is awesome, it will give you specific solutions to specific problems, google is the go to for an IT pro without a doubt. However (and here is the rub), specific solutions to specific problems is a tiny % of IT, the real trick with IT is solving the problems so specific to your environment that they wonโt be documented until you write the document. IT is about how things will look in 5 yearsโ time, IT is about understanding who and what you work for, you work for a business, if you donโt know or understand what they need or want youโre useless.
callmetom ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:18:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My sister's kid is pretty good with computers. I'm sure we could bring him in for a lot less than we're paying you.
Snackmix ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:04:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
We need someone to fill the help desk though so I don't have to answer all the stupid questions!
gacis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:24:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I see you've met my coworkers
Rolling_Bear_76 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:27:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can you help me with a few questions? Im not sure if you work in the field but, I have a degree in administrative management with a minor in computer sciences abs networking. Would a project manager or department manager for IT need a large knowledge of the intricate details of the networking and wire? Or would he/she be fine without it?
FlameFrenzy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:09:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a CS major and the further I've gotten in my degree, the less I feel like I know. My classmates all seem to be able to talk about all this other stuff that i'm clueless about. Part of my brain says they're full of shit, the other part thinks they actually know that and i'm woefully inadequate.
Guess i'll see where I really stand once I graduate and get a full time job @_@
fuckyourstuff ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:29:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I work AV at a hotel that doesn't have on-site IT so a lot of network problems come to me. I have enough knowledge to either "fix" the problem or know who to call if I can't but if someone refers to me as IT I immediately correct them. It's kind of out of liability to myself, I just want it to be absolutely clear that I'm willing to help but I am in no way an IT professional.
lagwagonlead ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:34:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh god, you found me. My company takes all info sys grads and has them work help desk prior to moving out into a development team. I'm so lost when it comes to the infrastructure side of things. Uhh so the LAN team is totally separate from the networking team and I get what a server is but what's the mainframe again??
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:37:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
On a related field that is not the same, even though people often confuse them (and they do crossover), not anyone can be a good programmer
Yes, anyone can learn a bit of front-end web dev, learning the syntax of a language is really very easy, but learning to program well is not something everyone can do, and there's quite a wide distribution in 'natural talent' for it (this topic comes up and causes a fight in /r/programming about every 6 weeks). Furthermore, while some programming jobs only do only need someone good at logical thinking and who can self-teaching themselves language x, some jobs really probably do need someone with a CS degree, or a dedicated autodidact who has taught themselves the equivalent
There seems to be a lot of people on the internet who think that CS == SoftEng, therefore because they're good at Python (and often, they genuinely are good software engineers), they have equivalent knowledge to a CS degree, ignoring all the additional maths which they likely weren't even aware of in their self-teaching. The sort of problems this can lead to is beautiful implementations, of an algorithm inappropriate for the task at hand because they'd dismissed big-O as 'useless academics'
blorgensplor ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:06:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You can't really say that after most IT people admit they google the majority of things.
PM_ME_STEAMGAMES_PLS ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:35:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"IT is just being paid to google" no bitch it's not!
Mojo_666 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:41:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You can't even quote the right person?
Muchoz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:03:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Or those people who do it for the money and don't give a crap about their code.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:04:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have a B-I-L that is the head of IT for a major union. He has a crew of 5 guys including himself. Those 5 guys do a better job in less time than the entirety of the company I am with, that has an IT department of 58.
Mojo_666 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:11:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As far as IT goes then your company is shit, lower than shit probably , they probably think they are cool because iPhone.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:17:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
~8,000 mother fuckers rockin droids, s5 and Note4 to be exact. I'm not in IT, I'm just one of the poor sons of bitches that is forced to beta their bullshit while somehow maintaining interface with the system. Our entire system is intranet dependent while ~40% of our workforce has no direct access, and is forced to use a fucked up SSO proxy.
SyanticRaven ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:12:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"How hard can it be to just change that tiny table?"
If you fucking think turning a table into a ajax powered multiple tab and page portal is 'simple' you fucking do it.
I'm sick of people telling me how easy things are, and its worse if you tell them it's easy and they somehow hear "It takes 5 minutes". Motherfucker I said it was easy, not quick.
My lastest one: it takes the company 25 days total to complete a normal lead-gen site. From concept > design > templating > development > QA/snagging > client training to finally live, and all meetings inbetween. Yet somehow my sales boss thinks big complex ecommerce sites take less time and then on top of that sells them at a discount? Fucking makes me wonder so it does.
33thirtythree ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:27:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How is this not the top rated comment?
Pepperyfish ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:05:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah my parents keep saying I should go into IT and I would no fucking idea what to do, I can google an error code and know the parts of a computer. You ask me to run a server farm or some shit like that you are liable to end up with me hiding under my desk because the server started making a buzzing noise.
MyLegsTheyreDisabled ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:05:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Even having an IT education won't necessarily help you out. I graduated in May and have been working in a small company as a software developer for 10 months. An older guy who I went to school with used me as a reference and has been with us for 3 months. He doesn't even understand basic code, like SQL select statements. I gave him a web utility with formatting issues to debug and he wouldn't touch it because he didn't want to break it and didn't understand how the code worked together. Like, bitch... That's what I pay you for!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:05:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Internet IT professionals that don't know what a Domain is make me laugh. Fixing peoples personal computers and fixing every computer an enterprise has are skills with less overlap than you would think. A+ exams do not prepare you to do anything but fix a laser printer and run a computer repair shop for personal computers.
rakoflo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:19:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How hard can it be? Just update adobe reader, and install Ultron.
iDrawYourCats ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:40:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is me. Except I now work in the enterprise section. Although it's not like I'm not learning and am locked into the skills I started with.
Tubbsie ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:26:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Whatever man I'll just restart
chumly143 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:06:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is like my eternal nightmare, I'm always concerned I'm in way over my head and like I could never learn enough
greywar777 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:32:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Or the ones that assume that just because you can program the embedded chips on servers that you have a clue about how corporate level IT works. Ask me about how a I2C bus addressing works and I can answer. But ask me about how to setup the corporate email administrative rights? Not a clue.
Oisillion ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:04:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm working on a computer support degree currently, and most of it is learning how to use office and some basic coding and whatnot. Along with customer service.
It makes me feel like a fraud and I'm worried I'll end up just like this. Do you have any advice? Because I love the idea of IT, and I'm good with computers, I just don't want to be incompetent.
pyroSeven ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:40:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah but google
Alexmaca ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:32:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just install Adobe Reader, it works!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:12:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fixing computers is easy just download adobe reader
MpVpRb ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:18:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
VERY few actually know how a computer works
Start with semiconductor physics and quantum theory. Then study digital logic. Then assembly language. Then high level languages and operating systems. Then networking..I did this over a 40+ year career..and I can't confidently say I know everything about how computers work
johannes101 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 17:25:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I somehow feel that IT does not really need to know quantum physics to do their job. Everything else, yes.
MpVpRb ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:30:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Agreed
I was specifically commenting on knowing how computers work
tmmtx ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:25:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh gods, I worked in tech support for 15 years and I'm still lost when IT just pulls out some random fucking batch script, runs it with three flags and all of a sudden shit works again. I'm great at teaching people IT skills and concepts, but I am no IT guru.
son-of-sumer ยท 580 points ยท Posted at 15:07:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
i work as a Translator and basically everyone who know couple of foreign words thinks they can translate.
[deleted] ยท 353 points ยท Posted at 16:47:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes! I'm bilingual but hate translating. The languages are almost separate entities in my head
son-of-sumer ยท 125 points ยท Posted at 16:50:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
thats the point knowing more than one language doesn't make you a translator by default but sure make you ideal to study translation.
batty3108 ยท 33 points ยท Posted at 22:40:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yup. I speak three languages, the two other than English to a fluent conversational level.
Translation/interpretation is fucking hard. I can understand what people are saying, but putting it into English? Impossible. The nuances of language are so hard to explain to non-speakers.
I recall trying to explain 'bitchiness' to a German girl once, because she kept using it to mean 'slutty'. Most native speakers of English just know what that means, but explaining the difference between spiteful, rude, gossipy, petty and the precise combination that could be described as 'bitchy' in some contexts is really hard. It's like describing Red to a blind man.
koalag ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 00:39:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes! "Bitch" is such a difficult word to translate. I live in a non-English speaking country, and my friends used to use "bitch" to mean "slut" or "prostitute" all the time, but when I tried to explain what it actually means, I'm just like, "Well, it's like a mean girl, who's also prideful, but..."
I think it's also interesting how it is a swear word directed towards women that has no implication of sexual morality (at least not in modern usage.) Not a lot of languages have words like that! Across all languages, swear words for women are almost always different and unique ways to call a girl a slut.
That realization actually made me fall in love with the word "bitch" a little bit.
cirajela ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:10:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Huh, I've never thought of it like that...it never even occurred to me that almost all female-specific insult words are sexual.
I suppose 'cunt' falls into the 'bitch' category as well, seeing as despite it being literally a woman's sex organ, it's not really used as a sexual insult?
Also, bitch goes back to female dogs, usually used for breeding. So I suppose it also stems back to being sexual.
nightraindream ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:06:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It definitely started from something sexual but modern usage doesn't really have that meaning
cirajela ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:15:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Right. I was just saying how even the non-sexual ones today used to be sexual. Crazy!
Chanteclairix ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 22:50:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a bilingual this is how I view the languages in my head: Imagine two cliffs. Each is a different language. As a bilingual, I can jump from one side of the cliff to the other with no difficulty, because I learned to jump. However a translator built a bridge. Several of them, and sees the connections between the two languages. And this is why I suck at translating.
Phreakiture ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 02:21:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is normal. The problem is that it seems people do not realize this is normal. They think, "Bob knows French and English; he can translate for us." Probably true when looking at a sign or something brief in print. It'll take a moment, but he can translate it for you. Simultaneous translation, though, is a whole other matter and a very special and specific skill.
NorthStarZero ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 20:32:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm exactly the same way. I can operate in either language but dear Lob not at the same time.
DrPineappleButts ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:47:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep. I speak fluent Spanish. It's dirty and nasty and I learned it in kitchens, food pantrys and landscaping. I took some classes in highschool to help me understand the language better. But I can't translate between English (native) and Spanish worth a damn. They exist as two totally different thought processes in my head.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:56:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It gets especially difficult when the languages are from different branches. I speak Hebrew and English and they're not even remotely close in anything
FudgeAtron ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:54:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
this i speak both and it's so difficult
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:25:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 00:17:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's fairly easy to convey the gist of something if you speak both languages fluently but to actually translate from English to Hebrew and vice versa without losing a lot is difficult, it's difficult with any two languages but it's even more so when the languages are so different.
For example, Hebrew has four versions of 'you', feminine, masculine, singular and plural, translating a sentence with two or more different versions of 'you' is difficult and you might need to add things so you can understand who the specific you is, or you lose the distinction between then.
Also like you said word for word translations are hard, look at Hebrew movie titles are fairly often bad with no real better alternative.
The Bible is also a good example of a lot of bad translations, although that's compounded with the fact that the Hebrew there is old and difficult to begin with.
There are probably other things I can't think of now(it's very late and I'm writing this on my phone in bed), but I think you get my point, and the original post. It's hard to translate accurately without losing our changing meanings.
charlesisbozo ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:34:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There are words that just don't have a good translation. I speak English and Chinese, and when translating, it is really hard to get everything across, including the sentence structure, connotations, etc. You can generally tell if something is translated - it seems awkward, uses bizarre words/phrases etc. That's one of the reasons why official news articles coming out of China sound so strange - the way they are phrased just seems strange.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:12:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have a friend that works in translating (mostly) fiction. She can very easily communicate the meaning if style and flow don't matter in the slightest.
According to her the worst issue is trying to keep the meaning with its nuances while having it sound like something a 9 year old street kid in 1903 would say. Also cultural differences without an expositional onslaught.
PoliticalLava ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:48:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I guess i don't think in a language anymore. Everything I see has 2 words, and as I speak I translate from my brain to that language. Weird.
SuperAlbertN7 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:21:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is strange because my native language in Danish, but I don't really have a distinction between Danish and English. Maybe it's just because I've spoken English for so long, or maybe it's because the two languages are very similar. But to me they're kinda the same thing. Though I still wouldn't be able to translate between the two instantly.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:14:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:06:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Typically English, but it depends on what word better fits the context.
For example, I use both languages with my family, so sometimes I naturally want to say something in German to really close friends because German may be more efficient or is how I thought what I want to say originally. I don't realize until I say it that they don't understand.
Like someone else described, I can jump back and forth between the two cliffs, often even in the same sentence, but I haven't built any bridges to connect the two for translation.
MinnieMouse2292 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:19:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've got the same problem. I'm always amazed at my professors when they're able to convey the exact tone of a literary text.
CmdrTac0 ยท 193 points ยท Posted at 16:17:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep, this was going to be my answer. You can have perfect command of multiple languages, be indistinguishable from a native speaker and able to write high-quality books and articles, and that won't translate (heh) into being able to translate from one of those languages to another.
dovahart ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 20:39:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So what does translate to being good at translation? Is it just the aptitude of conveying the same feeling between languages? I'm actually pretty curious
CmdrTac0 ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 21:11:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You need to be super inquisitive and look everything up all the time, you also need to make quick decisions as to what needs to be looked up and what leaves you more freedom to translate as you please, you need to not focus on words but rather on ideas (many, many people are unable to do this in general, even outside of the context of translation), you need to take into account the context of the source text (beyond what's written on the page) and the context of the translation you're creating (who is it intended for?), you need to follow the fuck out of whatever style guide that specific client wants you to followโฆ
dovahart ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 21:33:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So basically rewrite the whole idea without losing meaning in context?
CmdrTac0 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 21:36:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Pretty much, yeah. What you're essentially trying to do is write what the original author would have written had they been, say, Italian rather than German. Sometimes it can feel a little like an investigation.
Ogris ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 22:18:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah. People take translation as just substituting words, but that's not the whole truth. You're substituting chunks of text with the nearest approximation in the language you want to translate to, while worrying about grammatical rules, syntax, adverbs and phrases and making sure the whole sentence, paragraph, whatever, still makes sense and has more or less the same meaning in both languages.
People who are bilingual can translate adequately, but interpretation and fast translation is insanely taxing and very, very, very hard.
EsQuiteMexican ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 21:58:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Your brain gets rewired when you're in the job. You don't look at text and see text, you see tone, intent, level of education, target audience, grammatical structures, even the date. Maybe translating word per word works at times, but that's really rare. You have to be able to look into the mind of the author, understand what s/he's trying to say, and then redo all the process for the new language so that every nuisance gets to the reader.
You also have to be invisible. As God once said, "when you do things right, people are not sure you did anything at all". At no point should the reader get the impression that the text was not written in their native tongue, or else you've failed at stealth. Every translation is tailored to its audience.
Let me give you an example you might be familiar with. When watching anime, there is always the sub vs. dub controversy, and this arises because usually both are translated with different intentions and audiences. Dubbing has to be lip-synced, and since it's usually meant for TV, it needs to approach the broadest possible audience, so every cultural aspect must be either self-explanatory or localised and taken out. Subs, on the other hand, are usually managed by fan communities, and their objective is to be fast and appeal to the otaku population, which tends to get nitpicky and knows a bit more (let the record state I said "a bit") about Japanese culture than the common folk. You can also sometimes get away with translator notes, though they are horrendous and should be reserved for extreme cases. So you have the freedom to stick more to the original context (like using honorifics) but you also need to adapt trains of thought that might not be logical to western audiences.
In short, it's basically like reading five layers into everything. Plus being a writer. Plus doing lots of research about both cultures. It's a pain. But it's quite fun, and the pay is good, so here we are.
villin609 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:05:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Great answer, thanks!
Vivtek ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:09:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Also, never ever ever ever try to translate into any language that isn't your native language. Ever. They will know. I don't care if you've lived there for thirty years - unless you got there before you were ten, forget it.
JoeyJoeJoeJrShab ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:27:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, though, in a pinch, you can take what you've written, and give it to a native speaker of that language (even if they don't speak the first language), and if they're a decent writer, they can make it look almost like a native speaker wrote it.
silian ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:02:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I do a little bit of editing for fan translations on the side and this is very true, the best translations typically have one person who does the basic translation then a native speaker will take the rough translation to make it flow and read properly in their native tongue. Otherwise while the meaning usually gets across the writing tends to read like it was written by a child.
JoeyJoeJoeJrShab ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 04:23:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And it's not just the language -- there's the culture too.
Here's a minor example. I was watching one of the Shrek movies with a Polish friend. She's almost fluent in English, so she's seen the movie in both languages. She insisted the Polish version was actually funnier. One example she gave was a scene where Donkey was transformed into a white horse, and is involved in a chase scene. In the English version, he's described as a "white bronco", but in Polish, he's a "white mustang". She thought mustang was better because it was a kind of car. She was not aware that a bronco is also a car, nor was she aware of the OJ Simpson chase scene in the white bronco that the movie was referencing. Thus, the Polish translator was correct to switch to a better-known car, and get rid of the American-specific cultural reference.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:26:30 on April 22, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That was a great example to make your point actually!
villin609 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:42:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How is that? What other skills do you need?
CmdrTac0 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:13:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
In a nutshell, deverbalization. It doesn't come naturally to most people. I gave a few other examples in another reply.
EsQuiteMexican ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:59:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If I may redirect you to my comment above...
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/42anwo/what_does_everyone_think_they_can_do/cz9cj5j
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:37:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Dont know man, you described a good translator right there. I get the part that not everybody that speaks two languages can be a translator, but if you speak both languages as a native, how much better you can get?
CmdrTac0 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:40:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My point is, language skills and translation skills are different. There's some overlap, obviously, but there's more to translating than knowing the languages involved.
Frankis94 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:12:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
See this is so counter intuitive to me and I'd really like to know more about why this is the case. I bearly know more than a few words of German, so I have no personal experience. BUT if I had mastered another language completely, would auditory translation not simply be "listen, understand, comprehend, and rephrase with the same specific, contextual emphases"? Can I get an ELIF about why that wouldn't be the case/why that would be so counter-intuitively difficult?
CmdrTac0 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:04:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well, this might mean you have a natural disposition towards translation. I've run into countless people who treat it like an exercise in word substitution. For instance, when there's a noun in the original language, most people will try to find an equivalent noun in the target language. Sometimes (often) the result will be unsatisfactory, because that concept would actually be better expressed in the target language using, say, a verb or an adverb. Or the entire sentence structure would be totally different, and they're painting themself in a corner by trying to follow the original structure.
Frankis94 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:47:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
See, to me, that feels instinctively wrong, you wouldn't translate word to word, you'd translate an entire sentence, phrase, expression or "thing" in it's entirety, as best the new language allows.
Randel55 ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 18:06:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
On a related note: Teaching languages
Just because you speak a language doesn't mean you are able to teach it to others.
son-of-sumer ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:33:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
to be honest i suck at teaching especially grammar, i mean i can tell you the sentence is grammatically incorrect but i cant tell you why.
jkudria ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 18:21:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So much this. I'm fluent in both English and Russian which prompted a request to translate some Russian into English. It is NOT easy. Once your start reading and trying to translate, you realize your proficiency in a language is far less than you had imagined.
son-of-sumer ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:29:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
yeah tell me about it, am still learning and i will always do.
NebuchanderTheGreat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:53:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Indeed, I had an internship where I basically translated local language documents to english, and translating technical language was much harder than I would have thought.
jkudria ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:25:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep redoing the phrasing while still choosing words in such a way that the original meaning is at least somewhat preserved is terribly difficult.
goug ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 18:08:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In a translation course (the one that made me want to become a translator), there was this girl who was bilingual from birth (English and French), fluent in both languages, but she would get really upset from getting such grades when some in the class had poorer English (age from 18 to 21) but better translation skill.
I had a friend recently who was trying to figure out what to do with his life. He's decent in both French and English but I had to tell him everything I had to learn, everything he doesn't realize is required for the job.
You can't make any grammatical mistakes ever. Being fluent in both languages you know, learning you should only translate into your mother tongue (although there are plenty of exceptions of course) Learning the tools. You probably won't translate literature. You need decent IT skills if only to set up the software (XML, regex). You need to be able to manage your time, your money, advertise yourself (I suck at that). You need time to understand what you're translating, not the language itself (looking up words is the not that common) but the subject matter.
I translate video games, and I need to be good at translating dialogs but also at understanding when I'm reading a button label (Play) or an instruction (Play!). You also need to understand of the code works (variables etc.)
It's pretty tricky at first, but once you're good at it, it's awesome.
son-of-sumer ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:31:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
video games translator? thats neat.
goug ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:58:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
It's not exciting for 90% of the time for various reasons (lack of context, you don't see the game at all most of the time, strings of text all over the place with no logic in the excel files, instructions and achievements..., the annoying translation memories ) But when you get to the good stuff, the dialogs, the cutscenes, the naming of characters or factions, the proper story telling, it's awesome and I'm glad I ended up where I am.
I did video game translation for about two years in-house for a company, then went travelling for another couple of years, and when I set up as a freelancer I applied for IT translations and stuff, but those didn't work out, luckily, as all the jobs I got so far were games localization through former colleagues.
son-of-sumer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:32:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
any known games?
goug ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:02:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A couple AAA so far, sharing with many other translators, but I'm not comfortable talking about it, one is not out yet and the other one I haven't been paid for so I can't talk about it either.
But I've been doing mostly tiny adventure games. One of the ones I really enjoyed was "hamlet or the last game without mmorpg features shaders and product placement". It's the actual title. A really weird game with plenty of very unusual puzzles, where a tiny alien accidently kills Hamlet and has to do what he does in the play.
son-of-sumer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:13:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
i know this game, sadly it didnt work on my phone at the time.
Babyelephantstampy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:17:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What language pairs do you translate? I've done videogame translation too. It is so fun, but also one of the most time consuming and confusing sources I've ever worked with.
goug ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:56:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
From English into French. I agree with you, it can be very time consuming.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:44:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have great respect for translators, not only do they need to be bilingual (or more) but they have to have a very good understanding of both languages and both cultures, more than a lot of bilinguists do. Real time translators are amazing to me, especially when important business is depending on them accurately conveying meaning across cultural differences
ravenclaw1991 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 22:09:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I took 4 1/2 years of Spanish in school. I was pretty good at it as well, and I still remember a lot of it. My dad says "you should be a translator." Uh, no. I know some Spanish, but not enough for that.
--lI ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:28:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Definitely. Another order of magnitude harder is simultaneous interpreting. Those folks at the U.N. train for years to do what they do, and that's having already been born/become fluent in those languages.
son-of-sumer ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:39:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
simultaneous interpreting is the most difficult task for any translator.
Temperment ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:51:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The nearest library is on State street quit asking.
BaneWraith ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:53:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Im perfectly bilingual in french and english. I dont believe id be a great translator
son-of-sumer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:33:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
well you can be an interpreter if you are fluent in both languages.
ohshitohgodohno ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:48:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh god, interpreting is even harder!
son-of-sumer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:02:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
interpreting is not pound by rules, thats why i find it easier.
BaneWraith ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:06:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes but translating is different
son-of-sumer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:18:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
sure is.
tacomalvado ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:07:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was my mom's mini translator growing up. I love my mom, but that job sucked. It was insanely hard too. I had to translate a bunch of unique language quirks, and some stuff is impossible to translate because an equivalent doesn't exist in the other language or because it would have a different context in it. I dare you to translate "not bad" into what it actually means instead of the literal translation. Doing it when I was 6 sucked. I'd never do it as a profession. God bless those poor bastards that do.
By the way, my mom speaks decent English now, so I'm retired.
machu_pikacchu ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:53:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Well I can translate the parts I understand and use Google Translate for the rest!"
Ugh.
EsQuiteMexican ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:06:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I personally find it cute that people think we're gonna be replaced by machines any time soon. I'm sure that when that moment happens, true AI will exist and wipe us all from the Earth.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:51:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Speaking and understanding languages is much easier than translating.
Vivtek ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:08:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Darn. You were before me.
subwooferofthehose ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:09:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm quadralingual and I can't translate worth shit. I was raised in a bilingual home, learned another language at the feet of my stepmother, and taught myself a 4th in college (ok, so the 4th doesn't really count, because I'm only passibly fluent, and not completely). But, due to the way in which I learned the languages, I don't associate, for example, hola with hello. I associate hola with hola, and hello with hello. I hope that makes sense.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:29:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This semester I'm taking a course on French-English translation and it's crazy the amount we have to do. Anyone who uses Google Translate can fuck off.
moyno85 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:26:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Belissimo
maxpenny42 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:20:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A guy I work with received a French email, translated in Google, drafted a response and retranslated to French with Google. The customer was confused
Phreakiture ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:25:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can't translate. I get it.
Then you get things that don't translate, many of which are even common phrases. How, for instance, do you translate the French word "ne" or the French phrase "Est-ce que" into English? You can explain what they do, but you can't actually translate them.
iowaboy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:52:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was totally guilty of thinking that anyone who spoke two languages could be a translator or interpreter (I don't speak two languages fluently, but I needed to hire a translator and interpreter). Boy was I wrong!
Good translators are tough to find, especially in non-European languages, but they are worth the cost.
Also, I didn't realize I had to hire two interpreters to work shifts. I guess it's very mentally taxing, and they can only do it for like 15-30 minutes at a time. It was so serious, a UN translator passed out after 75 minutes of straight interpreting (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1216068/Gaddafis-translator-collapsed-exhaustion-UN-rant.html).
JoeyJoeJoeJrShab ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:16:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I speak two languages besides English, but both of those are at the level where I'm comfortable having a conversation, but definitely not fluent. I can't even imagine the effort it would take to reach fluency, and I know that'd be the lowest starting point at translating. You have my respect.
AgentHoneywell ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:54:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a hospital interpreter and I feel your pain.
excusemefucker ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:07:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I could be a sign language translator. Just look at the guy from the Mandela funeral. I know like 6 or 7 letters in sign language, so I'm already 10000 times more qualified than him
Tiervexx ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:11:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep! I have taught myself enough German to realize how hard it is to really get a GOOD translation that captures the essence of what was said in the other language.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:04:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What makes translating so hard? I was under the assumption that if you were perfectly fluent in a language, you could just translate it
son-of-sumer ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 19:16:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
translation is not a mechanical process, you need to have a background understanding of the language, the meaning behind the words and expressions, and the correct grammatical form to convey the text or speech you are trying to translate.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:40:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
son-of-sumer ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:34:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
exactly.
dessmr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:03:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's true to a certain degree. I, teach and translate, if a person is a true bilingual he will know these things and translate, the problem comes when he or she wants to do it profesionally, nowadays they are required to use advanced software.
EsQuiteMexican ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:02:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wrote a bit about it above.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:08:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wow this was ridiculously helpful. Thank you!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:32:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank God someone said this. I'm bilingual (English and German), it is easy to speak the language when you're with fellow speakers, but when you have people trying to have you swap between languages it creates such a brain fart trying to swap syntax and language structure in an instant
son-of-sumer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:37:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
actually it is stated that bilingual people tend to speak slower when they are not using their native language because of the whole language swap.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:32:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That makes sense. I was taught German the same time as English. And my relatives are the only ones I speak German with (I live in the US). I think it may be because when I speak German, I use the German words to portray my thoughts and have those already programmed, whereas when I use English I have the English equivalent programmed. The issue is when my friends want me to translate a thing between languages and I have to like process how to make the statement make sense. Just because I'm so used to speaking one or the other, when connecting, the issue is created
Vomath ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:16:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Omelette du fromage!
BriefcaseBunny ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:28:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How does one get trained to be a translator?
son-of-sumer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:31:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
well i studied English translation as a side major with English literature and i just fell in love with it.
BriefcaseBunny ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:45:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
May I pm you about this with more questions?
son-of-sumer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:48:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
sure.
Colres ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:55:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know three languages fluently, and can translate live from my second language to my mother tongue. I did it as a job for a while, even. I can't translate live the other direction- hardly even with taking turns (I say a sentence, they say a sentence) and I can't translate comprehensively to or from the third without writing it down. Languages are on completely another level than anything else. It needs to flow through your head, if you have to think about it even a little you will stutter and lose the thread of what's being said. When translating well, you go into a complete trance and nothing else in the room even registers.
imawesumm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:10:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
THANK YOU. As someone majoring in Spanish, this is so, so frustrating. Everyone who's taken a year or two of high school Spanish thinks they understand it on the same level I do and can try to explain shit to me.
uraffululz ยท 44 points ยท Posted at 20:04:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
After reading through this thread, I've decided to never have another dream of success at anything, ever.
good4damichigander ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 04:06:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The issue is not that you shouldn't dream of success. The issue is that after a lifetime of montages, people think being good at something just requires natural talent and a like for that thing. Instead, every art or skill requires an incredible amount of study, effort, practice, labor, and sacrifice. Please, DO dream about success, but go into those plans knowing that you will have to work incredibly hard.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:19:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Bah! You think you can just be a failure at life, just like that? It takes practice and dedication!
uraffululz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:22:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, I've had plenty of practice. In fact, I might try out for the slacker olympics in 2020.
My best event is the "Motivated daydream leading to nothing". Pretty sure I can take home the gold...or whatever. Maybe not...sigh....
Uncle_Skeeter ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:03:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Become an engineer. Our jobs aren't talked about in here. :3
KarenGaskin ยท 362 points ยท Posted at 16:16:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Use Microsoft Excel
tacojohn48 ยท 233 points ยท Posted at 17:56:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've heard about someone my company hired who was an Excel expert; used it all the time in their old job. When they got there they knew nothing of formulas and were doing all the math on a calculator and just using Excel to store the results. It's very easy for someone who knows little of Excel to think they're an expert as they don't know what all is there. Someone who has moderate knowledge may consider themselves a novice as they know there are many other features they don't use. In interviews it is best to ask about specific Excel skills, namely vlookups and pivot tables.
[deleted] ยท 191 points ยท Posted at 19:04:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
ManWhoKilledHitler ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 04:06:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know enough to get someone else to work Excel for me.
Zomg_A_Chicken ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:54:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
*So-Crates
[deleted] ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 22:16:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you know pivot tables, vlookups, most keyboard shortcuts and can just RECORD a macro, without even knowing VBA, you can blow people's fucking minds. It's amazing. I spent the first two months of an internship just googling every time I didn't know a shortcut or thought "there's probably an easier way to do this" and now people think I'm some kind of genius with Excel.
Word has a lot more handy features than I had previously realized as well. Creating macro keyboard shortcuts to apply specific styles made formatting documents so much easier, but that's not as universally useful as vlookups are, for example.
Azuvector ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 07:54:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sounds like my boss. Except no one thinks he's a genius with Excel. Pivot table all the things!
Big_Ern ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 05:12:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm proud for not knowing what those things mean.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:50:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Edit: Aw man, I read that as "not proud" and went on to write this long explanation thinking I was being helpful. Feel free to ignore the Excel nerd and move on, ya'll....
I wouldn't have known them either before I had a use for them. Like I said, I learned it all from Google as I found the need. I tried to learn by practicing on random data back when I was interviewing for internships, but I found it very difficult to really learn without having an actual use for them.
For the record,
Vlookup is a handy function that can pull data from another sheet based on some common factor. ex: You have a list of these employees and their Employee ID, but you need to pull in their email address for a distribution list. With the employee roster that includes their email address, you can just use the vlookup to pull in their email address from the roster (in excel), using their unique employee ID. A LOT easier than looking up each one.
Pivot Tables are just a super handy tool for looking at data. Say you've got a client list with a bunch of information - type of product they buy, how much they spent this month/year/qtr, region. You insert a Pivot table with that client list and voila! You can see how how many clients are buying particular products, count the number of clients in each region or see which region has the biggest spenders. Super handy for a lot of things. I tend to forget to use this for simple tasks and sometimes use the Count or Sum function, which is effective but slow if you have more than one thing you want to quantify more than one thing.
VBA is a pretty simple programming language that can be used to write commands in Excel. Macros are what the commands are called. (I am emphatically NOT a programmer, so someone please correct me if my layman's understanding is off.) I rarely actually write any VBA, but it is basically in plain English, so it's easy to write some simple commands once you add the Developer tab. But they make it even easier to use Macros by having a "Record Macro" function that you click, do whatever you want the command to do (i.e.: copy and paste cell formatting), and hit stop. It's written the VBA code for you based on what you did. You can assign it a keystroke command and now you have a new shortcut, which is all I ever use them for. It makes formatting spreadsheets to be suitable for presentation a fucking breeze.
The most important thing I've learned is how to avoid using the mouse whenever possible in Excel. If you're using the mouse, there's almost certainly an easier, faster way to do it using the keyboard. It's way faster, easier, and more efficient, and almost always worth the trouble of figuring out how to do it, even if that takes a little extra time at first.
Kaelaface ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:06:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I could have written your comment. I use this technique in interviews all the time. "Would you say your skill level with excel is beginner, intermediate or advanced?" " I'd say advanced for sure." "Wonderful. Tell me do you know how to use vlookup? If then functions? Pivot tables?" .....deer in headlights.... " I mostly just did data entry in it." I see, ok.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:44:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
SUMIFS over everything
goat18 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 02:09:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Boy might I have something for you. I really like SUMIFS, but it breaks if you use it when linking to data in other workbooks, so there's a solution I found out some months ago:
Instead of
you can use
Then you have to press ctrl+enter instead of just enter, because it uses arrays. Other than that you can use it to sum data in other workbooks. I don't know if that's useful for you, maybe it will be for somebody else.
vacationlandgirl ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:19:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I love learning new ways to do things that are already amazingly useful. Thanks!!
_leira_ ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:10:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I took a crime analysis class a couple terms ago and holy shit does excel get complex. I feel silly putting that shit on my resume before that class! I learned so much, yet know that I realistically still know nothing of its capabilities.
lagwagonlead ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:38:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I took an entire semester on excel and we didn't touch a quarter of what excel can do. In fact, we didn't even touch all of the shit I had already learned from other classes, which was quite a bit. One year later and I've forgotten all of it.
GreatNorthWeb ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:18:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I started my work as a software engineer by writing macros in Excel. This led to forms-based applications laying on Access databases then eventually to C# and SQL Server databases housing corporate data on web servers. I once built a chess engine inside excel, with a font named "Traveler".
lumixel ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:38:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
all about the INDEX(MATCH())
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:17:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I started at my job hired as an "Excel expert" In my interview, in order to test my skills, they asked me how to transpose copied cells. And how to find and replace text. If they had asked me how to do a vlookup I would have been screwed. Thankfully Google is my best friend. I've come a long way since then.
KeeperDe ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:14:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Definitely. I know enough about excel that I know, that I knew more about excel than 99% of the office I worked at. I also knew that our real excel expert (who gave excel trainings more than anything) knew a whole universum full of excel more than I did.
Minus-Celsius ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:13:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Who uses vlookup? Index match is much more organized and has better control.
themellowbutters ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:06:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
hey i actually learned about vlookups and pivot tables in one of my classes! i think vlookups are kinda easy, pivot tables, eh
tacojohn48 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 21:11:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is going to sound funny, but pivot tables become easier to use when you have a need for them. They're weird when you're learning about them in class, but you'll get it when you need to use it.
cisnotation ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 22:35:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Look what index match is. It's much better than vlookup and hlookup!
1Marshall91 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:00:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Agreed!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:29:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Pivot tables are actually easier than vlookups, I had the same thoughts as you after taking classes too
maxpenny42 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:23:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I really want to be better at excel. It is such a versatile tool. Maybe I can find a class or something.
Wyojhwk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:49:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've had to hire a few people who listed out that they were excel experts in their application. To test their knowledge during the interview I would ask progressively more difficult questions around how to use Excel to solve a set of problems. I could care less if they were able to write out the formula and arguments but I wanted to see their ability to use the tool in order to save them time or to create a repeatable process.
The idiots that clearly put Excel as an expertise but had only seen it due to it being included if Office made for short interviews typically. I could tell their level of knowledge within 10 minutes usually.
SconeSnatcher ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:34:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This made me shudder. Having to deal with models riddled with random hardcoded values and inconsistent formulae is a nightmare to navigate.
ZincCadmium ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:35:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
At my previous job (where I was technically a temp, making less that everybody else in the office and not getting any PTO or benefits) they hired a new senior account exec on our account, and it fell to me to train her for some unholy reason. I was showing her the reports that I ran every day, which were templates that used vlookups and some comparison formatting formulae to highlight changes from one day to another.
I wasn't even getting into how to specifically use that stuff, just things like, ctrl-a to select all, or ctrl+shift+direction to select all the cells in a column or row. She kept on telling me, "I was the Excel person at my last job, we just used it, like, totally differently. this is totally alien to me."
On one hand I understand enough about Excel that it's possible that one med comms company uses it in a very different way.
On the other hand, I feel like anybody who uses computers regularly should know that ctrl+a selects everything in the field. She also required more than one reminder about how copy/paste shortcuts worked.
PresdentSarahPalin ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:51:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
make you - me - an excel expert? OK.
bookhermit ยท 142 points ยท Posted at 17:36:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Microsoft excel is easy to use. Anyone can type in an equal sign and add up a few numbers. Using it as a powerful tool, creating a useful program that is easy for your clients to use is very difficult
wrongwayup ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 20:18:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The last part of your comment is the most important. Making something for yourself is one thing, making it a "product" that becomes robust and reliable while effective and easy to use for someone else is a real skill.
sleepy55 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 23:25:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think it's more the fact that using it efficiently is very difficult.
Excel is user friendly enough that you can accomplish a good amount of tasks as a beginner, but some might take you dozens of hours because you don't realize you can use function X instead of manually entering things.
ivanparas ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 01:49:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And don't even get me started about macros. Even if you know Excel formulae front to back, macros are a whole other layer on top of that.
goat18 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 02:01:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Several years ago I loved macros because you could automate stuff to refresh at the click of a button. Later on I started thinking of Excel in the same way as I would think about code. It should be easy to read, understand, and maintain, and that's more important than having everything update as fast as possible. So now I avoid using macros for a lot of things where I probably would have used them in the past.
The same principles apply to macros really, VBA is just another programming language as far as I'm concerned.
notLOL ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 22:57:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Making it reasonably not ugly is also a skill. I usually just have inputs in random cells
Penis-Butt ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 02:11:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The more you learn about Excel, the more you realize you don't know. Microsoft Excel is not an easy tool. I have extensive programming experience and have used Excel in ludicrous ways, and I know only that I know nothing.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:08:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I'm a software developer, building financial software. I kinda feel like if you are going to spend so much time building a product in excel, you should probably learn SQL already and possibly JavaScript or python. I sometimes just don't understand the time investment in excel
For example, my brother builds complex excel files with pivot tables and sometimes hundreds of thousands of rows. He has a few that take 5-10 minutes to rebuild. With that sort of time investment, he could have learned SQL and done the calcs in the ms range with millions of rows. And with massively more flexibility
Chevaboogaloo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:07:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
At what point am I allowed to put "proficient with Microsoft Excel" on my Resume?
ismellpancakes ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 08:13:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I personally wouldn't put proficient until you can at least create if-then equations (or statements, depending on how you look at it). The use of macro's would also be good to know as well as actually being able to make a document look good, easy to read, and be usable with minimal instruction by other people other than those who developed the excel sheet.
There are other words you can use on your resume other than proficient. Usually what I use on my resume for skills ranking from lowest amount of skill to highest amount of skill is experienced<knowledgeable<skilled<proficient.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:50:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was pretty proud of my excel budget I made. Color coded, lots of sum statements adding my columns together and subtracting the expense columns income , pretty graphs detailing my expenses and income, frozen panes, and even some conditional statements.
I went over to /r/excel because I considered myself a big beginner that wanted to maybe learn some things to add, and I honestly don't have the first clue what they are talking about. I don't even know what they are doing with it.
lets-start-a-riot ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:01:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep, you and me use excel, they seem to use excelPro or excelUltron or some shit like that because It looks like they use a different program lol
RickDic ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:27:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's strange, everyone in my office acts like it's like learning Java.
Hellkyte ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 06:24:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
On some levels, it sort of is, at least in terms of complexity. VBA alone is actually fairly powerful when really used fully. You will find yourself using a lot of the same standard techniques you use with most other oop languages. Then there's the fact that the actual implementation of the language is incredibly haphazard and inconsistent. Obviously it isn't as powerful as something like Java, but what it lacks in programming it adds in the actual excel side, which can do simplex algorithms or some fairly complex statistical analyses, or some really weird and powerful stuff with hlookup/vlookup and R1C1.
Excel is like skiing. Anyone can get on the bunny slopes. But actually flying down the madderhorn? That takes some serious work.
RickDic ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:34:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No reason to be scared of the bunny slopes.
StayHumbleStayLow ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:59:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've yet to see someone use it to its full potential
AlwaysSlightlyPeeved ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:44:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was pretty sure I knew how to use Excel until I saw someone build a flight simulator in one.
Rhueh ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:03:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Excel is one of those things where the beginning of wisdom is realizing how little you know.
Hellkyte ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:15:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When you know how to use Hlookup, Vlookup, and can code VBA in R1C1 without having to reference books ahead of time, then you're starting to enter the expert realm. I use these from time to time and every time I have to spend like 30 minutes reminding myself how to use it.
yass_cat ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:02:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've been reading through the excel bible, going through videos on excel exposure, and supplementing with other YouTube tutorials, brushing up on general math skills and starting to work through Visual Basic too in an effort to actually get good at excel without taking formal classes. I came from zero knowledge at all and I'm definitely miles ahead of the average joe now but I have a really long way to go before I'm where I want to be. Like, many weeks of work. It's not easy. Shit like figuring out how to use auto fill, and a slicers from "10 Excel Tips to Impress Your Boss" seems to perpetuate the misconception. I'm not saying everyone needs to be an expert to use excel because you can actually start doing some pretty cool stuff with just a simple knowledge base, but actually getting good at it is requiring about as much work as what I would put into learning a new musical instrument.
Cjw2125 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:41:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I took a class my junior year of high school on Microsoft Office. People would be surprised on how much they can do with it
EsQuiteMexican ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:11:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How do you excel at Excel?
goat18 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:54:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do people say that? Most people I've talked to about Excel were pretty open about not really knowing how to use it well, and not really being sure what it can do. That said I'm basing this off like two conversations so it's pretty baseless. Like 90+% of my job is using Excel.
DangerBrewin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:03:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I recently learned from our office secretary how to mail merge a spreadsheet of names and addresses from Excel into Word for addressing form letters and envelopes. Turned a project that would have taken me all day into an hour and a half. Excel gurus are worth their weight in gold.
Hellkyte ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:27:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And often come in surprising packages. I've always thought I was pretty good and was then schooled by our super sweet grandmother-esque secretary on some weird use of it.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:22:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
lets-start-a-riot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:03:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
10% looks a bit high
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:50:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'll just leave this here. Learned a few tricks myself after years of pivoting. https://youtu.be/0nbkaYsR94c
gritodedolores1946 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:57:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I hate excel, but I am greatful for having classes that made me use it and made me learn some of the stuff that comes along with it. But I am definitely not an expert at it and I don't know if I ever want to be.
TheBetaPill ยท -21 points ยท Posted at 17:57:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As someone in computer science, it amazes me that Microsoft Excel and Word are still considered useful. I would much sooner write a Python script than deal with Excel. And I hate heavy text editors.
Then again I don't really do the same things lots of people do with Excel or text editors.
Tylemaker ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 18:18:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes python of useful and there are lots of times where a python script would be more effective than dealing with excel, but if you don't think excel is useful your being ignorant. Every corporation in the entire world uses excel and there's a reason for it, it is extremely good at doing what it does.
sohaibhasan1 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:21:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sorry man, but /u/TheBetaPill is absolutely right. If you're spending more than a couple of minutes trying to accomplish something in excel, you would most likely be better off importing it into R or Python and using the one function that does exactly what you need and then sending it back to excel. This includes all aspects of data frame manipulation, statistical model building, and data visualization. Massive corporations aren't as smart as you think they are and the ubiquity of excel is definitely more a function of inertia and people's fear of programming than it is of excel's functionality.
Source: I'm an experienced data scientist who has worked in big and small organizations.
Tylemaker ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:54:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Interesting, didn't know this, although I am only lightly experienced with python and have never used R, what in particular is excel poor at? I have found excel extremely useful for most things I've done thus far
TheBetaPill ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:14:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Data scientists represent! I want to be you when I grow up (i.e. when I graduate in less than a year).
Holy hell they downvoted the shit out of me tho. I thought I was being reasonable and just stating my opinion. I even admitted I don't do the same things lots of people use excel for... which I'm not even sure is strictly very true.
TheBetaPill ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 18:34:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah like I said, I realize my work is pretty different than what most people do at work.
That said, I'm not convinced it's the best tool for a lot of the tasks it gets used for. I agree it's ubiquitous, but it seems more to me that in many cases (not all) it's ubiquitous because of it's legacy rather than its functionality.
Tylemaker ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:11:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, some people use excel for stuff that would be much better served by any sort of basic script, but most people don't know how to do that.
I fine it funny that you said this actually, one of my friends is soon to graduate from Compsci, and we took a heavily excel based stats/management course together, and at first he was like "can I just use python" and I was like "no, you don't understand excels power yet!!", but now he does and understand it's use/power.
Python doesnt hold a candle when used for financial/statistical analysis, data organization, accounting, and many other tasks excel is designed for.
Magicalporks ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:18:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
ya lost me at stats, excel is a horrible tool for statistical analysis, would much rather use python or R
tom_fuckin_bombadil ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:53:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How does Python compare to programs such as minitab? Excuse my ignorance (I have zero programming background) but I've never understood how people can compare Python to a program with a user interface like excel or minitab. When you use Python, where does the output end up. Where is the input? Do you just have a bunch of data in a csv and run a Python script that outputs another text file with the desired parameters you were looking for? What happens if your parameters change slightly, do you have to alter the code in the script? For example, if I had a list of 100 data points and I wanted to find the mean of all the data points, but then decided I want the mean of every 10th point and then later on I decide I want to sort the data, would I have to create 3 different scripts and have 3 different outputs?
sohaibhasan1 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:14:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a data scientist and manipulating data is about half of my job. The guy above you and the /u/TheBetaPill is absolutely right. People keep pointing out vlookups and pivot tables as some of the very useful advanced excel features. These are things that require a single line of code in R, Python, or SAS. Only amateurs use excel for data analysis. It requires tremendous effort to accomplish incredibly simple transformations and manipulations to data, and there are a plethora of data manipulations it is simply incapable of pulling off. Eventually, anyone whose job it is to analyze data and is worth their salt will hit a wall with excel, and the only way to clear that wall is to pick up R/SAS/Python. User interfaces come with an absurd amount of constraints in capability because you simply cannot create a GUI button for everything one would want to do to a data frame. More importantly, they simply cannot scale the way a script can.
tom_fuckin_bombadil ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:13:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you for the reply! I've always wanted to get into Python but at my job, I never have the chance to practice using it and the data I encounter never requires hardcore statistical analysis and consequently it's difficult for me to become proficient enough where Python would be easier and more effective than excel.
TheBetaPill ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:43:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think /u/sohaibhasan1 covered a lot of the motivation for why Python is great, but I wanted to answer a few more of your direct questions/comments:
In python you can open files using this kind of line:
And you can do a variety of outputs.
printprints to the console, for example. You can also use packages likematplotlibto generate charts. And Python has excellentcsvwriting/reading/manipulating capabilities. There a tons of tutorials around the Internet. The python website has great documentation. There's also lots of free online courses. On Reddit there's /r/Python and /r/learnprogramming. Anything else is easily Googleable.Sorting
csvfiles can be done by calling a function calledsorted. Just pass the correct parameters to it. One line. No need for a new script.Finding the mean of the data is also only a 1 line script:
sum(x)/len(x). Off the top of my head, taking the sum of the mean of every tenth element might require 2-3 lines (it's kind of an odd thing to need to do).You can do whatever you want with your scripts. It depends on how you build them. With practice you get very good at writing "modular" code that can be reused. You could write three scripts for that, or you could just write one. Honestly for each of those tasks I probably wouldn't even save the scripts. I'd just open up the python interpreter, write 3-5 lines and get the results immediately. 5-10 seconds.
I still use things like google sheets for making a pretty little spreadsheet, calendar, budget, etc. If it's only a few columns/rows and I want easy custom cell colors, etc. then it's still my go to. For everything else it's Python (other people use R or shudder MATLAB).
TheBetaPill ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:08:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Well, like I said, I can't speak to finance or accounting. Because I don't do finance or any of that stuff. I didn't say it was wrong to use it, just that it baffles me as a computer science person, that people still use it.
But python is way better for stats, manipulating data, making predictions, data viz, and data modelling. Ask any research scientist and surely they will tell you that. And there isn't anything special about organizing your files in CSV/Excel format. It's plain. Which is sometimes nice. But python is plain/uses CSVs too. And there are much more expressive types of databases out there if you need them.
In many ways, basic programming is the new literacy. They're teaching it in schools now. But many still people are afraid of it. So companies continue using Excel more often than they should.
powerage76 ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 19:32:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, you probably have zero idea how the corporate environment works.
FlameFrenzy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:13:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've used python to edit an excel spreadsheet once.
Huge document, with another smaller document (formatted slightly differently) and had to search to see if a row in the smaller was in the larger. It was dumb, but it was amusing.
PlinyPompei ยท 731 points ยท Posted at 12:42:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Their dream job.
imapirateking ยท 270 points ยท Posted at 13:08:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That cut me deep, but you're probably right
ThePeoplesBard ยท 322 points ยท Posted at 16:55:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wrote and recorded a song for you, the tale of /u/imapirateking:
https://soundcloud.com/kavaliercalm/pirate-king
Pirate King
Chords written relative to a capo on the 6th fret.
Em - G - A - Em, Em - G - Em
In my dreams I sail the seven seas.
Whoring and looting with my mateys.
A pirate ship is what I need to find
to leave my life on the corporate grind.
Dm - Am - Em x3, F G
But if I'm fair about my skills,
I have to take motion sickness pills.
If I'm honest about my resume,
I'm afraid of waves and sword play.
I may be pretty good at the voice.
And I'd take a hook if I had the choice.
But I'd probably be a lousy pirate king,
and so I'll stick to accounting.
imapirateking ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 21:07:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've never had a song written about me before. I'm ridiculously happy right now
pulse_pulse ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 23:09:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you're a pirate king, surely you must have some spare gold coins around. I wonder what good use you could put them to.
imapirateking ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 02:15:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Pirates don't share their gold
yenwood ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:48:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
He's not a pirate king, didn't you hear the song?
onmytablet512 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:29:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is awesome.
mynameisnotjan ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:32:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I love you
aPintSizedLion ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:12:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
/u/poem_for_your_sprog you have been challenged
spookmann ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:31:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can't believe /u/imapirateking hasn't gilded you yet!
Liledroit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:27:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Novelty accounts.
monstercake ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:32:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ooh, my favorite chords!
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:46:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Bard > Sprog
Noremac812 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:19:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The only thing we need is sprog+bard
The possibilities are endless
lupaonreddit ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:56:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
applause!
outroversion ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:39:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I heard this to the tune of "I am a judge" from Trial By Jury.
Yoyti ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:52:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's funny. Because that was written by the same people who wrote The Pirates Of Penzance, from which we get the Pirate King song. (As well as the Major-General song.)
outroversion ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:40:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Haha you G&S. I live in Cornwall and have been IN pirates of penzance haha so obviously on some level I was getting that vibe lol
rogerrrr ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:48:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Any chance you could post the strum pattern? I haven't played in a while and I can't figure it out.
shows7 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:08:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Too bad for you devil fruits aren't real
PokemonMasterAMA ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 02:26:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is awesome!
artvandal7 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:38:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You even give out guitar chords now? Dude you're awesome.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 12:48:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
your cadences remind of flight of the concords (either of them really)
flameguy21 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:23:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can confirm. Being paid to breathe can't work for me.
Kowzorz ยท 73 points ยท Posted at 15:29:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What's worse is getting the dream job and losing interest.
IrrelevantLeprechaun ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:14:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Which is why you should never ever make your dream your job.
[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 20:34:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Amateur astronaut checking in. So glad I only do it on weekends, I hear those weekly meetings and incident reports are a huge pain in the ass for the pros.
riddlemetom ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 23:54:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Your commute must be out of this world.
awesome717413 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:21:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The main reason I'm not launching into that career.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:49:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
expense reports for outer space expenditures are rough. No one remembers to itemize the receipts
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:42:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's my secret. I'm not interested in anything.
Rammage ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:39:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Isn't that all dream jobs?
p1zawL ยท 51 points ยท Posted at 15:03:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Absolutely. Just because you enjoy something doesn't mean you're good at it. And just because you are good at something doesn't mean you will be good at doing it in a professional environment where you also have to do a hundred different tasks not related to your main activity which you are passionate about.
It's a shame how many people daydream about their "perfect job" but then put in no time to get good at doing what that perfect job requires.
deityblade ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:11:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You were crushing my dreams until the last sentence which was quite inspiring.
I'm gonna go study some more now
Sector_Corrupt ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:47:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The supplemental stuff is a big one. A lot of people assume going into software development that you'll just get to write clever code all day. They just assume because they're good at programming they'll be good at development. They can be anti social code wizards.
Most of the job isn't clever coding. It's relatively straightforward stuff and most of the hard work comes in clarifying what people need, puzzling out actual requirements from general ideas. Communicating with team mates and breaking down work. Writing clearly communicated tickets so that when it comes time to be tested people know what's up. Doing code review on other people's code. It's a lot of communication.
Depsite the stereotype, anti-social weirdos don't thrive in software development. When interviewing those types we write them off right away because no matter how good the code is most of the job isn't that.
ocelost ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:16:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think it helps if you enjoy the process of becoming good at things.
PacManDreaming ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:40:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Or you could be me and be good at all the things you hate doing.
ShutUpIWin ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:08:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, and you'll probably end up hating it few years into it...
stratospaly ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:13:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm currently in my dream job. IT for a ~$70m annual revenue company. Some weeks I do 10 hours of real work, some I work at 2am. Mostly at my own pace to improve the network. Everyone is EXTREMELY appreciative that I'm there, free fully stocked kitchen, I come and go as I please, no boss breathing down my neck (I actually feel like HIS boss). I get great benefits and pay with no stress.
If you asked me 5 years ago to fully describe my dream job that is what I would have said. I'm living the dream.
joelthezombie15 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:43:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's why I have low expectations. I just want to be a businessman who does paperwork.
I like doing paperwork.
WhyIsTheNamesGone ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:24:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No one wanted to hire me to design video games. So I gave them all the finger and made my own. Take that, unbelievers!
MrMeeeseeks ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:36:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My dream job is to be a stay at home dad, minus the dad part. I would absolutely rock at this job! Clean the house, cook some meals and the rest of the time, I can play videogames and watch tv? Sign me up!
potatoslasher ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:14:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
my dream job is doing nothing and getting money for it.....
GrollTheLicker ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:42:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I could totally be a Private Eye :(
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:52:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep, I spend $25000 on 3.5 years of college to get my dream job in biology before I realized that I really hate chemistry and math, and I suck at both of them.
I have a new dream job now and I'm hoping it's more realistic for me ha.
rattlesnake30 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:40:16 on January 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do you mind if I ask what your new dream job is? I got a degree in biomedical science and had a high gpa but realized that it wasn't really for me. I too hate chemistry and math.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:59:59 on January 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I want to be a therapist now hah.
Solastor ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:57:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I interned my dream job (not at my dream facility, but same job) and I fucking loved it. The really hard part is getting hired and thats the next step
hammeat ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:36:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm pretty good a jerking off and getting sloshed fishing.
donjulioanejo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:02:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What if someone's dream job is to be a useless idiot that never leaves their couch?
TheFlyingBogey ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:38:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Tell that to the schools pushing kids with nothing other than this for motivation. Seriously, my old high school tried pushing us all to go to uni and sold us off on the benefits of it, completely ignoring the crippling debt and potential burnout of it all. Not to mention they want you to decide your career at the age of 13, and if you're "good" at something then, well I guess you should fucking get a job doing that then because you're "good at it*.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:44:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is true about 80% of every episode of Shark Tank and Bar Rescue
Nemesis021088 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:47:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nice name. lol
PlinyPompei ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:42:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Thanks. Yours too.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:23:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fuck you, but thank you. You motivated me. I'll show you, fucker.
Gibboni5 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:01:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ye my dream is to be a programmer myself people have been telling me all my life how difficult but god knows if thats not what im doing then im not really living.
TwiZtah ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 15:32:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Your dream job should never, ever be your hobby. Because when your hobby becomes your job, it is no longer fun.
[deleted] ยท 39 points ยท Posted at 15:58:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:42:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Buncha pessimists in here. Good for you, man.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:55:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Backpacking guide checking in. I love it even more now, and I get paid to do it.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:54:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I figured this out when someone paid me to paint a bunch of random things they wanted... after the first one I was like "yeah I probably shouldn't do this for a living."
Now I'm rather grateful that my parents made me take up psychology instead of letting me take up Fine Arts.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:59:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is this always the case? A hobby can turn into a job as long as you realize you're working not hobby..ing . Treat it like a job you just happen to enjoy and you'll be fine.
I think a lot of people assume that since their hobby is now their job they'll never have to deal with the mind-numbing tedium of a normal 9-5. That's never the case.
No matter what you do for cash, at some point you'll have to put in work. Work that doesn't really involve what you like doing as a hobby. But lots of people would rather do that than have a job they're getting very little out of.
Surfincloud9 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:27:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I teach young adults how to rock climb safely. Can definitely say that my job is my hobby. I get to climb amazing formations in yellowstone. But I also work as a laboratory technician working with blood samples to test quality of blood analyzers.
velawesomeraptors ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:53:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I dunno. I'm getting paid to watch birds but I still like watching birds.
odie4evr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:55:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Unidan?
velawesomeraptors ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:51:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Haha no. Unidan probably gets paid more than I do
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:54:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not always! Being a musician fucking rules.
drbhrb ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:41:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you like lots of driving, bad pay, weird hours, playing music you don't like for money, teaching kids, and no benefits.
Source: Musician
eloel- ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:49:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I completely disagree with this as a software engineer. If your hobby projects are interesting, you can do both of them without hassle.
Sector_Corrupt ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:51:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a software developer the last thing I feel like doing after a day of programming is more programming. It's not that I don't like programming, but I'm just way too worn out to put out any more code for fun after I've done a day of it. I really only look into hobby coding things when I'm on vacation now or doing puzzle type things that aren't a major time investment.
discipula_vitae ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:43:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This isn't a steadfast rule. The fact is, some take on their hobby as a career and "never work a day in their life"and others do the same and it completely ruins what they once loved.
People are different, and respond differently in similar situations.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:06:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think its that hard to do nothing except get drunk around my house all day.
IrrelevantLeprechaun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:13:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This. Imagine your dream job. Now stop imagining it as a job and imagine it as a hobby on the side.
NEVER make your passion your job. Few things will happen. You will firstly start hating it because you're not doing it for fun anymore; you're doing it by requirement and under deadlines, so the fun gets sucked out.
Secondly oftentimes your "passion" has a very small market and will have little potential money in it.
If you like a thing, keep it as a hobby. Keep it as something you can sell at your leisure.
Go get an actual job that consistently pays and that you won't end up hating every day. Go learn a trade or study to be an engineer. The money will roll in to fund that hobby without having to rely on that hobby to live on.
Better yet, find a real job that you can somehow integrate that passion into. There are plenty of diverse fields of engineering; you can probably find something that partially appeals to your hobby.
ExtraSmooth ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:33:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So basically what you're saying is that everyone should be some sort of engineer.
dracofolly ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:31:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's reddit's go to occupation evidently
Lastmanback ยท 436 points ยท Posted at 14:51:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Music production.
Along the same lines as photography mentioned earlier. Basic music production software and equipment is readily available and is affordable to most these days. Compared to the 10's of thousands of $'s required in the pre-digital era..
It is possible to record and produce music to a reasonable standard at home, after much learning and practice, but many seem to think professional recording studios aren't worth using at all. The result is many substandard 'demos' circulating, and a devaluation of professional studios. Both in monetary terms and general respect and understanding for the craft.
outsidenoise ยท 50 points ยท Posted at 17:14:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was a media production major and briefly worked in radio for two and a half years after college. While most radio commercial production involves basic voice/music mixing, it still always amazed me how so many "seasoned professionals" didn't understand simple concepts of using your ears and your eyes to monitor levels, properly blend elements together, trim music beds to shorten them to 30 or 60 seconds but still have it sound natural, etc. I can only imagine how difficult it must be to properly mic a drum set, adjust your processors to accommodate the specific voices and sounds, etc. Hell I don't even fully understand how it all works; I mostly just rely on my ears. I doubt I could handle the caliber of recording a band's album.
Everyone wants to be a cool, slick record producer. But very few can actually do it. Good sound production is something that, when done right, no one notices or thinks about. But so, so much work went into that three minute song.
blackseaoftrees ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 20:30:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Also, "If my song is only 3 minutes long, why do I have to pay by the hour?" as if tracking, editing, and mixing don't exist.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:47:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
outsidenoise ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:01:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
That's honestly one of the reasons my time in the industry was short. I started as the morning show producer/co-host, but quickly found myself far more interested in the production work, but the prod director wasn't going anywhere, and it seemed clients only wanted "the main station personalities" to voice their shit (do you ever get that as a prod director?). Dealing with the sales staff also was a whole different animal. So, I changed careers, but now I volunteer at a local station doing imaging or whatever promos they need some help with. It's nice because I get to do something I love with zero pressure since I'm an unpaid volunteer. Obviously I'm gonna take the time to do a great job, but you know what I mean.
And like you said, it is so crazy hearing the crap that gets put on the air on so many local stations. It's like no one even cares.
gorillab_99 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:12:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sales can be a pain in the ass. Fortunately we just hired a new GM who doesn't take any shit from them and makes sure that the ops staff doesn't have to either.
There are certain clients of ours that request certain voices for their spots because they've been doing them forever, but for the most part I have free reign to assign whatever to whoever. Typically I'll just have the jock voice the script and I'll produce it though, it'll turn out better that way. Overall it's a pretty decent gig.
outsidenoise ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:11:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's awesome, man! It sounds like you've got the gig in radio I always wanted. I always enjoy meeting people in the industry and talking shop with them.
IAmTriscuit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:14:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Couldn't agree with you more. I'm only just starting to work with professionals, as I'm in my last year of university for the profession, but I'm astounded by how many of them I work with and have no concept or understanding of music theory. Like, any of it. Maybe it's just a new type of education for my generation or something, but I was able to take tons of music theory and perception classes, and that has been the single most helpful thing when it comes to working with musicians and mixing/mastering. It really is crazy how these "professionals" can't go up to the musician they are working with and have a discussion about why one key may work better than another, or something similar. Not to disservice the industry, as these professionals are still miles better than I am at the actual production process.
reagan2024 ยท 117 points ยท Posted at 17:15:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Guy obtains a copy of "Fruity Loops Studio". He then puts the word "Producer" on his Twitter profile. He is now a "Producer".
AskMeAboutMyRapSong ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 19:59:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And then adds in a bunch of annoying hi hats to every beat.
reagan2024 ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 20:08:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
He adds annoying high hat to the stock beats that come with the software, then advertises them as his own.
Doctah_Whoopass ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:19:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Then it usually ends up sounding like some cheesy 90's song meant for children.
Robrev6 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:33:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Relevant username
Didactic_Tomato ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:15:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hey I did/do that!!!
-_--_---_----_-----_ ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:59:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone knows you can't be a Producer without Ableton Live
CombatCube ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:56:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is your username a drum beat?
antonio106 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:40:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Does the 30 day demo count?
Mezevenf ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:28:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is exactly how Flume started :P
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:55:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And then offers to play his shitty music at every party! I'd much rather listen to Pandora at that point
ofoot ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:01:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
HEY. HEY. HEY. ITS CHEAPER THAN ABLETON. (but actually though, there's insane bang for your buck from the native plugins).
But yes, I do see your point.
Further more, why do people only shit on FL?
WhompWump ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:04:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
its just hipster elitism. People think ableton makes them cool or something just because they use it. It doesn't matter which DAW you use if you have zero creativity and dont put any time in to learning it. Metro Boomin and Lex Luger (2 of the top producers in rap atm) both use FL studio. I know tons of great artists that use FL Studio. But some random dickweed trying to make more "like daft punk" shit on ableton thinks he's better because he uses ableton.
ofoot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:14:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But like..... Ableton costs money.... I mean sure, Max For Live is better than what FL's Patcher can do now(but one day....), but for the average consumer, I think FL is great.
groovestrument ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 17:13:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In the same vein: playing any musical instrument.
onlyonebread ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 04:38:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Eh I'm not sure about that one. I've never seen someone state that playing an instrument professionally is easy. The majority of people find playing an instrument virtuosically to be black magic levels of mystery.
groovestrument ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:21:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There is a difference between vituoso and professional. A huge difference in fact. Living in a "music city", I can testify that there is relatively little respect for professional musicians.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:58:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Even the kazoo?
groovestrument ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 08:21:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Especially the kazoo.
ShigglyB00 ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 16:26:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Came here to say this. I've been doing music production for about 5 years now, working on my DAW skills, studying the science behind sound and how it reacts in spaces, building up a collection of microphones and hardware. And the more I learn, the more I realize I'm almost definitely not going to do this as a job. It's so ridiculously complex. The blend of science and art is baffling.
I still very much enjoy it though.
markevens ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:09:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have a friend who is a professional producer. I went to pick him up once and he was in the middle of a project. He was showing me how he uses the visualizations of the sound waves to make little adjustments here and there to fine tune the sound.
It's just crazy how detailed it can get. It is way more than just mixing recordings together.
spritanium ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:57:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
People need to learn how to compress, EQ, and use reverb/delay/panning to make things sound distinct. Then they need to hand it off to a real mastering engineer if they want something that sounds professional in any environment.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:09:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Apparently the vast majority of people think mastering involves slapping a tacky plug in on the master nowadays.
I've been doing this for ten years and I can't master for shit. I'm working on it but I know my own limitations and the virtues of paying a good engineer.
Mr44Red ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:50:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wait 10 sausage fattner isn't all you do to master?
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:55:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Mate, just whack three chained compressors on it and an EQ boosted 12db at <100hz. It sounds awesome in my SkullCandys.
IrrelevantLeprechaun ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:24:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I discovered this after trying to solo produce music in Ableton Live. Sure you can plug in all the synths and make some tunes but you need to EQ everything, balance it, effects needed to not make it sound boxed in, and above all MASTERING IT. There's a reason most people outsource their mixes to get mastered by a pro.
porcubot ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:31:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Once you get into professional territory you'll find that most serious engineers won't master their own stuff. An A-list mastering studio is going to look very bare to someone who's used to seeing racks of compressors and preamps- it's a finely-tuned room, with finely-tuned monitors, a few pieces of rack gear, and above all an engineer with fresh ears who hasn't been previously invested in the project.
StaticAnnouncement ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:01:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can't master for shit.
belethors_sister ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:41:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I work in the music industry (edm genre) and so many people think they're 'producers'. It's so bad. I try to be polite about it but I cringe at almost everything a friend's 'really talented buddy' shows me their new track. Also no, I'm not going to email my A&R friend to keep an eye out for your track.
Numbajuan ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 04:27:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a huge fan of the EDM genre and I picked up a copy of Ableton Live and ordered a fancy midi keyboard and all that jazz. I play around with it in my spare time and collaboratively learn it with my friend over in Korea when we can spend some time on it. We would never send out our shit to anyone until we know it's perfect. I don't get the terrible music I hear on sound cloud and posted on these EDM Facebook groups. "Check out my new fire track". No dude. I can tell that's a ripped version of FL Studio or Ableton. I see your vengeance drag and drop audio clips. More like dumpster fire track.
I do it for fun and for myself because I love learning how people make the music I listen to every day. I don't get people throwing out this shit quality stuff.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:06:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Jesus, tell me about it.
Everything is clipped to fuck because they got ozone and pulled the threshold to the minimum and boosted the fuck out of it. The bass is just flat out noise because the kick and sub clash. The snare is literally just distortion at this point and the hats are needles inside your eardrum.
How do they listen back and think, "yeah, that's how I wanted it to sound"?
I've worked on a couple of Indie films recently with people just starting out (Don't do it, honestly, it's sheer hell) and I had to fit someone's friend's song into one of the films. It was horrendous, everything was just a huge fucking mess. At which point I realised my name would be on the credits, so I quit after saying there was no way I was a) putting that song in its current form onto the film or b) not mixing and mastering (which I can't even do very well yet) his song for him.
belethors_sister ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:34:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Damn, I feel your pain. I can't imagine having to work in Indie films, which must be a whole 'nother level of fuckery. I also know what you mean by not wanting your name attached to something like that; its why I won't call my A&R friends to listen to your shit track. Even though that's not the area I work in I'd still look like a fool.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:09:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not going to work with people starting out any more. I do overdubbing for educational stuff/corporate videos etc as a day job. It's pretty simple to do but my passion is in soundtracking and foley work really. It's a really tough gig but I love doing it (insomnia helps).
I've done a few bits and pieces but I'm just starting out. That last film was ridiculous. I'd got an hour of the score fully finished when they told me they'd done new takes and new scenes had been added, on top of that scenes had been extended. So OK, I go back and check the new recording to find at least half of it was entirely new and the project was considerably worse. Absolute charlatans.
Don't worry about it, I'll just go and record 30 tracks again, getting them all in time with the material and record extra incidentals just because you lied when you said it was finished.
Sorry for the rant, but this stuff keeps me up at night. Three months worth of scores down the drain. How can people be so stupid?
belethors_sister ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:33:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You don't have to apologize for ranting; believe me I have gone off on some epic rants in my time.
How can they be so stupid? Because they don't realize there is actual work involved beyond pointing a camera and shooting.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:52:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly, it's maddening. I think it was even more frustrating because it's the end game for me and they were halting progress.
From what I could gather, they were paying for the film with family funds. I didn't really know about that from the start or I don't think I'd have got involved.
What part of the business are you involved with if you don't mind me asking? I've been around the block a bit. It always feels a lot like pissing in the wind, especially working for a label.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:26:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes! Also being a live sound engineer. Everybody thinks that all you need to be able to do is plug in a bunch of speakers and mics and push up the faders. Sorry, buddy, but this has taken a lot of practice and training for me, and musicians don't sound as good when you remove the acoustics and try to recreate the sound with transducers - that's why we have all that fancy equipment and shiny boards.
The crazy thing, though? The same studio guys who often rightly feel annoyed by people who think being a studio engineer is easy often think the same thing about live sound. At least around here, a lot of them think it's easy because it's the sort of "dirty" version of what they do in the studio. But in reality? Naw. It may not sound as clean or even as developed as the album, but that's because we're fighting with physics.
BoneslyGrifter ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:12:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I had to learn both when I went to "sound technology" technical school. Very glad I did, live sound pays the bills. Studio side is my passion, but live sound is very rewarding (for me and my bank account) when you get a good band and a good crowd.
g3wd ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:41:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Came here to find this comment.....and YES to that last bit. I've had excellent recording engineers destroy expensive architectural speakers because the amp gain is just the volume right? Still have the cracked tweeters. Yes, you can run the amp too low and break shit.
Live sound and studio have overlap, but it is almost impossible to take an engineer from one and do the other well. The fighting with physics part is brilliant. Also, live sound is LIVE. There's no go-back or undo button when the house is packed!
MpVpRb ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:21:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Frank Zappa did his best work in his state-of-the art home studio. He did work with professional engineers
BigJim94 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:12:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You can lump DJ into this category too. Most people think its just pressing play but its so much more than that.
belethors_sister ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 17:43:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well it doesn't help when you have dickwads like Mat Zo and Deadmau5 getting on Twitter or saying in interviews 'hurr ne1 kan dj it so simple'
drbhrb ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:46:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most event DJs just press play
BigJim94 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:51:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lets say for example they do have a pre-recorded set (for example I saw Feed Me last year and his lighting and stage set up were so dynamic that it would be damn near impossible to run the thing live.) He still had to mix the songs that he created together and find the right ebb and flow. His mixing was so spot on and his song selection was so superb it took me on an adventure. The fact that people think anyone can do it is the exact reason this post even exist.
drbhrb ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:59:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I said event DJs, like weddings
BigJim94 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:17:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I suppose you are correct. I was thinking of events like EDC, Holy Ship, Electric Forrest and so on. I was confusing festivals for events.
Humbleness51 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:13:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Still though, you have a point. So many people look at EDM festivals and say herr derr all he did was press play. Okay, well did you consider the hours and days that went into the lighting and the mix itself. So many older musicians are turning into huge elitists because the technology is becoming much more widely available and they feel threatened that people are able to create similar quality sounds in a much shorter time frame and for much less money
friday14th ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:37:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Yeah, its about being famous first, then pretending to twist knobs while nodding your head. Any idiot can DJ.
There was even a show on it where they took some random people and taught them to DJ at a professional level within a few hours.
edit: below - people missing the point. Its about doing something professionally, not having the approval of a bunch of bedroom DJs who think they've put in the hours to get the skills. This is the point - you don't need any skills. You just need to be famous and stand there playing a mix CD looking the part.
I put on club nights, I know how it works.
LookingForVheissu ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:21:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Show me who can learn this in two hours, and I'll give you absolutely everything I own.
http://youtu.be/FPv-3bGzqPI
spritanium ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:00:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You have to be able to understand music enough to properly ease between tracks (don't know the actual terminology). Maybe you can teach someone the technical aspect in a few hours, but not the artistry.
friday14th ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:18:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There are some basic things to learn, like beat-matching (although machines can do this better nowadays) and mixing in key. Any seasoned musician can learn this in hours. I did this across a few tracks first time with vinyl without practice, although I already knew the theory.
Now, actually getting paid to DJ professionally? You just need to be famous.
Didactic_Tomato ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:17:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Except you can't just learn that.
The most important part of being a DJ is having the correct song selection for the moment, sending people through a journey by music.
A lot of people just suck at that/don't know a large variety of tracks to even start.
oyooy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:28:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Currently studying Music Tech A Level so I'll definitely agree with that. I do about 6 hours a week just learning how to use the studio we already have and, relative to real ones, it's tiny. It's so hard to actually get good sound and I know I'm only scratching the surface on it.
friday14th ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:35:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
With 10k hours experience you have a good chance of producing something at a professional level but even then you're just one out of several million guys who can do that so there's no money to be made at this point. I learnt this the hard way.
RelaxRelapse ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:15:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Like anything in the entertainment industries it's all about luck and connections.
You could be the best producer in the world, but if you don't release anything than no one will know. And then if you do release it you'll need connections to get it into the hands of the right people. With that you'll begin to get something small going, but it always takes a bit of luck to really blow up.
mO-on-Stomper ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:31:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everybody wants to be a dj.
GDarolith ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:40:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My thought was always that if you want to get into producing music you need to demo it critically to your friends in a live setting, then make a recording of yourself and get feedback, and then maybe if you are good enough you can go to a real recording studio.
BoneslyGrifter ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:06:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This kills me the most. I grew up (and I mean from a REALLY young age, like six) teaching myself how to record, first to a four-track cassette deck and later into DAWs, learned how to use about six different recording and three MIDI-focused ones. Had a project studio in high school in my backyard shed that I paid for, and worked for another studio in town, all before I was 18. Went to a recording arts program (not like FullSail or something, but a nationally-recognized one, Waylon Jennings recorded stuff there), got ProTools certified...
Basically, recording music is my dream. However, I know from the other studios I've worked in that its a dying field, in part because it hasn't adapted to the times. People just don't want/need to pay $200+/hr to pack up all their gear, haul it across town, and be told what to do by some tired professional. Especially now that you can spend around $1000 and get decent results at home. Maybe not radio-ready nation-wide release quality, but decent enough for most bands. My plan? I'm working on a mobile recording setup. I've developed a reputation for being really easy to work with and good at mixing (especially drums). I already have interest from quite a few people for coming to their practice spaces and doing "budget recordings," as well as recording live performances. I won't be charging $200 an hour, but with a lower overhead cost and being priced more affordably, I can see there being a demand. I'm mostly charging for my time spent mixing. Once I get all the pieces together (slowly buying up things used/on sale), I should be able to recoup my spending on the gear just on the bands interested alone.
That said, I would love to have an actual beautiful studio. Maybe someday, if there's enough clientele to justify it.
Lastmanback ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:27:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It is definitely a dying industry. But I don't believe it's because the industry hasn't adapted. In fact I think the industry adapts quicker than most, with any new technology being adopted very early by most studios.
I think the reason why it's on a steady decline for over a decade now is that high end equipment is still very expensive. Even excluding a high end recording console you still have ProTools HD, Plugins, Mics, Outboard, Rent, Insurance, Harddrive, MacPro, cables, etc.... All this stuff costs a fortune and needs to be paid for. So studios have to charge a decent rate that reflects the cost of doing business. Problem is that it is now possible to achieve an acceptable standard of recording in the bedroom for a fraction of the cost and people feel pro studios just aren't worth it. I would argue that they are worth it for any serious band/musician.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:14:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a music producer i can say this is true, the hardest part is the maintaining levels, results can be extremely frustrating
nialldoran ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:22:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Became a "professional" engineer/producer in the last few years (i make a living from it) working at three facility studio, in Ireland of all places.
I tend to find, that because it's so easy to get the tools, people think they can use them. 9 times out of 10, the band who listens to their substandard bedroom mix against a professional one and thinks it's acceptable, are probably a band i wouldn't want to work with anyway.
EDIT: words
Lastmanback ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:18:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So true. A bigger problem I suppose is that it doesn't take much money to move from a bedroom operation to a fully fledged ITB studio. So many of these are popping up and charging โฌ100 per day. Puts a lot of pressure on pro studios and engineers to justify their still competitive prices of โฌ350-โฌ500 a day.
donjulioanejo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:02:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
On the other hand, Basshunter started off literally making music in the basement. Aron Chupa, the one-hit wonder producer of I'm an Albatraoz literally wrote/synthesized it in his basement, and the girl singing is his sister.
I have a friend who's an amateur DJ, and the few progressive tracks she's made from scratch are pretty damn good. Not as polished as something from Armin or Sander Van Doorn, but the beat and quality is there.
Professional studios are still useful, but the barrier to entry is much lower now, and we're all the better for it with access to more and better music.
Lastmanback ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:15:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I agree. It's easy to make a start and this is great for music in general.
My point really is that while some bedroom producers are excellent, the majority are not. Yet they still seem to think that having Logic/FL/PT paired with KRK rokits and an maudio axiom they can achieve a professional mix. While this is possible it is extremely difficult.
Bedroom studios are great for writing and arranging and putting together rough demos which you can send to your record/mix engineer before you book a session in their pro recording studio.
narrill ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:19:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You can do professional quality work in your basement on the cheap for a surprisingly large number of genres if you know what you're doing, it's just that both production and composition are vastly more complicated than most musicians think they are.
dihedral3 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:32:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I tried my luck at making minimalist electronic music a while back. I had my synth, sampler, drum machine, mixer, 4 track and some software. Holy shit is it a lot of work.
I have a box of tapes of me messing around somewhere in my room and listened to them one night. It was like reading some poetry you wrote in middle school or something. Then I would remember that a given 2 and a half minite snippet probably took over an hour to make.
Making music, while fun, is difficult and time consuming.
evoltap ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:30:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you, was hoping this would already be here. As somebody who runs a studio, I am constantly having to convince people why I have to charge what I do. People don't get that the upkeep and overhead of a professional studio is quite high. Also, many "musicians" have not made enough records to understand the process, so all they see is joe bedroom engineer offering free, and you telling them $3000 to make a record. Part of this ties into the fact that musician should be on this list too.
Leharen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:32:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You also need, and I mean need, to practice a lot with software and other things. I've been making music and working with ideas for about two years, and let me tell you, it's very hard to come up with an idea for a song and stick with it. Out of the (maybe) 150 or so ideas that I've had during this time period, only one-sixth of those ideas have become full-blown songs, and not many of them are even that great.
So before you think that bashing out a few lucky chords on a keyboard and having relative experience on a drum machine will make you the next Daft Punk or something, you'll have to practice. A lot.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:10:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Same goes for (music)videos. People just don't realize how much work goes into making videos. Even if you leave out all of the set and the actors and the catering and everybody who runs around there there's still the guy who edits it, the ones who put in the visual effects, quality control, color grading, etc and they all want to make a decent living... There are reasons why blockbuster movies cost millions and millions of $ and that's not only because of overpaid actors.
Shit you want a music video that looks like it came straight out of hollywood? Then fucking pay like the guys in hollywood do.
kittypuppet ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:19:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
On the same note, singing professionally.
You may think you sound good, and you might sound good, but there's a lot of work you gotta put into it to sound great.
I've found this out the hard way.
thedoctorhuw ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:27:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes. I took a two-year course in Music Technology in sixth form and did fairly well on it, and I still love making music on Logic, but I know I am nowhere near professional standard, at all. My brother has a degree in it and is there now, but it took a fuck-tonne of work, so I hate seeing these people who get themselves an SM58, decide it can record anything, and record an "EP" with it. And if they then ask for money...
ace_detective ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:34:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My music group released a cd, and I was in charge of the budget, making it happen, etc. The difference between the raw recordings and the edits, and between the edits and the mixes, and between the mixes and the masters is ridiculous.
I'm going to be doing a personal project soon, and my group gave me the raw recordings from a song we never intend to release for me to play with. I know for a fact I'll never be able to do this project as well as the professionals who did our CD.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:01:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was taught how to record by a pro and am able to do all of it at home. However for things like recording drum kits I still prefer to go to the studio. It's just such a pain in the ass to sit there, get the phase right, blah blah and by the time you get it setup your gassed and don't even want to play. So much easier to pay a professional to do that part.
Then the rest of the tracking I do at home and it is in house until it goes to mixing and mastering.
maxpenny42 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:22:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Audio is hard. I did a project in school and by a stroke of luck had an audio visual guy in our group. He knew how to frame the camera so it looked nice and actually got a real mic on the interviews instead of just the cameras mic.
The. All the other groups had to put their section together with ours. It was amazing to go from clean clear picture with crisp sound to blurry, dark footage and fuzzy sound.
Duff_McLaunchpad ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:02:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know when making a beat became "being a producer" but that annoys me to no end.
OlanValesco ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:15:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I make a lot of my own music, but I still hear flaws all over the place even after spending 15+ hours on a 3 minute song.
deboma ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:55:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like music is an art form where there is no "wrong" way to do it. banging on an actual drum is almost the same thing as using an android app. it really just comes down to personal taste
MY_SHIT_IS_PERFECT ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:21:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To add to this.
Music production is shat in particularly bad because quality productions are pretty much only noticeable to the trained ear.
It's sad but it's true - real good triple-audio productions are often seen as a dime a dozen because people just have no clue what they're listening to. On some level they might notice but I've rarely seen a casual listener pinpoint a good production from a bad one.
lawson04 ยท 717 points ยท Posted at 15:06:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be an offensive or defensive coordinator for a football team.
blumer ยท 390 points ยท Posted at 16:15:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But it's so clear! All they've got to do is cover #82! He's tearing us apart!
bloodcoveredmower86 ยท 128 points ยท Posted at 17:42:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just run the ball!!!
Gamerhead ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 19:49:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Or throw it when you're on the goal line.
[deleted] ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 19:58:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Get off Reddit, Pete Carroll
TheShaker ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:14:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ironically enough, the reaction to this is guilty of what the OP is saying. If it's so obvious, then I'm sure somebody like Pete Carroll can figure it out.
bloodcoveredmower86 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:16:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
God dammit that pain will never go away!
Majormlgnoob ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:23:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It can't be worse than the pain of Bostick dropping the on side kick and the snow ball from there
ministerpresident ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:36:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Bro, it's still to soon. ๐ข
Majormlgnoob ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:25:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Your tears make me happy
bonerparte1821 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:03:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
well in fairness, that one was the right answer.
Jackthere ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:08:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hand it to Marshawn!
droans ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 18:36:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's a million times easier to see the faults in a play when you're watching it from above as its happening. It's a lot more difficult to predict the defense/offense before the play happens. People don't seem to recognize this.
Boukish ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:46:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To a point. But when you have the #1 passing offense, the #32 running offense, and you're playing against a team that literally fields a BIG PLASTIC SIEVE as its secondary, you should play to your strengths and pass the fucking ball instead of ramming it up the middle on 3rd and 8.
Fuck. You. Lions. UGH.
Majormlgnoob ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:26:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But Jim Bob Cooter passes it
RapNVideoGames ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:53:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well they should pay for cable like the rest of us have to
lildutchboy7 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:27:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is #82's name Lisa?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:32:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Jesus Christ you idiot then we have to pull the safety help over and we lose coverage over the top if they go vertical on us with #13 on that post route. What were you thinking?
[deleted] ยท 58 points ยท Posted at 18:20:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Norgenigga ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:43:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wow, I think veer is traditional. Up here youth and high school all run wing-T which I think is a super gimmicky offense.
jdonnel ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:13:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The easiest team and the worst defeats were against wing-t teams. Saw if executed perfectly the wing-t can score 40-50 points a game. ONE miss step you never see the end zone.
smittywjmj1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:52:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just make sure your QB isn't a showboater who LITERALLY NEVER PITCHES NO MATTER WHAT EVER (my signal caller in HS). Also, be extra sure your linemen understand what's actually happening and how blocking assignments work. I was a guard in HS and while I usually got the job done, I had no clue what was happening in the big picture. If my blocking assignment was a backer I missed it often because no one ever bothered to explain how blocking assignments worked to me.
[deleted] ยท 282 points ยท Posted at 16:53:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I have two brothers who are successful high school football coaches. Both are very young (25, 21) and the youngest one verges on being some sort of a prodigy.
Now I understand football. I've been watching it for years. I know all the positions, I know all the players, I know all the teams, I understand all the rules, I am up to date on nfl stats, I understand what makes a player good/bad, and I understand the strategic basics of the sport etc..
But when my bros start talking football. And I mean real football. Complex strategy, plays, codewords, blitzes, coverages, fakes, audibles, options, formations, offenses, reads, handsignals, checks, pulls, defenses, weaknesses etc... I am astounded. I literally cannot keep up and I know for a fact neither could the vast majority of people. And that's just the high-school level (both intend to become D1/2 college coaches eventually and are on the right track). The pros is an entirely different galaxy when it comes to complexity and strategy.
Anyone who thinks football is a simple sport is an idiot. It is easily the most complicated and intellectual of all the major sports.
shanedoth ยท 135 points ยท Posted at 17:20:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Plus, that's the just the in-game coaching. A coach's job is so much more than that. Building a roster (e.g., recruiting, home visits, scholarships, etc. at the college level, or worrying about contracts, draft picks, trades, etc. at the professional level) is a whole separate game in itself. Then there's training and conditioning to develop your players, or taking care of internal conflicts, personal issues, etc.
There's a reason why great coaches get paid as much as they do.
BaneWraith ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:50:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Training and conditioning shouldnt be done by coaches. Im not saying they're bad, but we've reached a day and age where the indoor (in gym) physical training should be done by kinesiologists/exercise scientists. Coaches are amazing motivators and planners and can make you develop your skill, but it really takes a professional exercise scientist to periodize training programs properly and bring your team to the peak physical ability
Guitbass ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:41:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think what he means by training is stuff like drills, practicing plays, technique, etc.
BaneWraith ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:05:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Then yeah i deff agree with that
nebulousmenace ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:51:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well, that and there's money in the sport. Chess players don't make shit.
versusChou ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:14:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think the GM is the one who focuses more on money at the pro level. Obviously a coach has input (we NEED to keep this guy for my scheme to work), but the HC doesn't do it alone. He has a very large staff who he trusts to help.
Hanchan ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:05:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most nfl coaches don't assemble the roster, though that is phasing out now, they make requests to the gm who figured out how to work it out.
JediMasterMurph ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:14:37 on January 28, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They have a say in the 53, maybe not all the camp bodies that are there to begin with but the HC controls the cuts.
pomlife ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 17:25:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's basically physical chess.
dragoneye ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 02:02:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Football is one of those sports where the people that aren't interested in it cannot seem to grasp why others find it interesting. I always try to describe it as the sporting version of war. You have both sides and they are both trying to outsmart each other in the current battle (down) to help your side progress in the war. As such there are all the codes, signals, secrets, strategies, etc. that are present in real war.
donjulioanejo ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 20:56:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm actually kind of sad I never grew up in a football culture. What little exposure I have to it (mostly my ex-girlfriend), it seems like a very tactical game that depends a lot more on how you set up a play than on individual players being awesome and pulling off Ovechkin-style breakaways.
tobidurr ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:36:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In Germany TV right now there is really only one program, ran, that shows the NFL and they have different experts, mostly former players from the german football league or the NFL Europe, but they got one guy, who was an assistent for some NFL teams training camps, and his commentary is so different from the commentary of the other experts. He just has such a lot more knowledge and sees the game different and explains it a lot better
lawdandskimmy ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:03:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hold on. I agree that it's complex as anything can be complex, especially at top level, but don't you think saying it is easily the most complicated and intellectual breed the exact same type of ignorance.
What do you know about other sports to make that statement?
Right now I would assume that the only reason you say it's most complex because your brothers are involved with it.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:11:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can say with a great deal of confidence that it is the most complicated because I also know/watch most other major sports; be it baseball, basketball, hockey, and soccer and none of those come even close to football in complexity.
lawdandskimmy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:53:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I only know about soccer out of these, but I could easily see most of these terms you mentioned to go along with soccer as well and which do not there would be other at least as complex aspects to the game.
Could you keep up with top soccer managers/coaches?
Tubbier-Wombat ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:07:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think him saying that Football is the most complicated means he thinks he could keep up with top Soccer coaches.
rangerthefuckup ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:59:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What about cricket?
Heimdahl ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:42:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't really enjoy watching the sport and only tune in for a bit when the Superb Owl comes on but even from my limited understanding it seems that there is so much more focus on the coach or single players on the field than in most other sports. More like some ancient warlord leading his troops from the hilltop instead of the usual team of players who work together to win.
Is there actually a lot the individual players have to know or decide or is it all coming from the "leaders"? Can't imagine some guy in the defensive line to actually have to think much about anything.
shytooth ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:34:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The guy in the defensive line also has to read the offense and make adjustments based on what they see. Just the tiniest movement from an offensive lineman is enough to tip off a good defensive lineman what play is going to be run.
bjsy92 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:38:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
what did they do to get their start? I never played football really (too small, tried it briefly as a high school freshman) but I follow it, just interested how young guys get their start in the business
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:52:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They both started playing middle school and played every year until they graduated high school. The older one played for a D3 college until he graduated.
The youngest one started coaching middle-school right out of high school at 18 years old. The other didn't start until he was 20 years old. Both started as middle school positions coaches (WR/CB and RB/LB respectively). They began coaching at the schools they graduated from.
This is possoble because the school was private and doubled as a high school as well as a middle school. Also the coaches there had known them since they were players so they were much more open to hiring them. They understood that they were good players who knew the game and were capable of teaching it. Didn't hurt that they were willing to work for chump change.
The oldest brother now has a degree in kinesiology and wants to become a positions coach (RB) as well as a strength and conditioning coach for a D2+ college team. The youngest wants to go all the way and turn it into a head coaching job for a D1 school.
bjsy92 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:52:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Gotcha thanks for the info!
I_AM_VERY_SMRT ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:12:24 on January 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Agreed. I don't have a huge depth of knowledge about football, but the main factor that compounds into the complexity as I see it is the "time to plan" the next play as well as the week off between games to plan for your next opponent.
This is what makes football so strategic when compared to a similarly physical game like Rugby, which is more heavily based on quick decisions and overall concepts.
HubbaMaBubba ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:28:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How smart do the players have to be though?
[deleted] ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 17:37:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
That's a tough question. On one hand there are a lot of "stupid" NFL players. On the other hand, these players still have to understand the playbook. And NFL playbooks might as well be written in a new version of the enigma code as they are that insanely complicated. It also depends on the position.
So in a sense some of them can be considered classically "stupid" while also still be geniuses when it comes to football. Sort of similar to savant prodigies.
HubbaMaBubba ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:41:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was genuinely curious, I don't follow football at all.
I just know that in a lot of other sports players are required to read the play and make quick decisions on the fly, while football seems more like the players are simply pawns.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 17:48:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Depends on the position.
QBs need to know basically everything about everything if they want to be effective. Both on offense and defense.
Middle Linebackers need to have a complete understanding of their own defense and also have a very good grasp of the opposing teams offense.
Offensive linemen need to understand a great deal more than what people give them credit for. They need to read the d-line, adjust to different blitzes, and know when to shift
The "dumbest" positions would probably be WRs, RBs, and OLBS but I am not completely sure about that.
Needless to say most players are not pawns. Infact QBs and MLBs are generally considered the conductors of the offense/defense. They are given a great deal of control over their squads and have the power to adjust accprding to what they see the opponent doing pre-snap.
FormCheek61 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:15:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The "dumb" positions don't have to make or fully understand the grand strategy but that usually leaves a lot of room for a focus on tactical adjustments and reads. They may not have to understand every formation and aspect of the playbook like a Mike but a Good D-end can identify an entire play based on Olinemans slightly uneven stance.
FormCheek61 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:11:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You need to make a lot of adjustments pre snap. The coaches call the play but there are MANY different outcomes that can happen based on your opponents set up pre snap and their reaction post snap.
FormCheek61 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:50:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Very. The thing that separates highschool standouts from college studs and college studs from true professionals is the ability to read and adjust to increasingly complex schemes at a ever increasing pace.
Sirnacane ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:18:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And your empty assertion that "It is easily the most complicated and intellectual of all the major sports" is based on what, that you know how complicated football is because of your brothers? Every single major sport is complicated. You were so close but you're making yourself blind
Lionel_Herkabe ยท -16 points ยท Posted at 17:53:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yea it's so complex they gotta show commercials between every play
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 18:00:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
The logic of this statement is broken, unworkable, and difficult to follow. I suggest rewriting it and/or reanalyzing your point.
Lionel_Herkabe ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 18:04:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fuck that it's just a lame, half sarcastic comment on all the commercials during football games
Anotherthrowaway0323 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:09:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Original
mr_hahn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:47:51 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think you got the sarcasm yourself genius
fortknox ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:12:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Or an official.
ParameciaAntic ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:03:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hey, I'm a hell of an armchair quarterback!
Chewie22 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:08:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Coaching in general. Ive coached high school baseball and basketball. What you see the coach do during games is such a small part of what they actually do.
WhompWump ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:45:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have full football autism and I realize I could never in any way be a coach because that's just too much shit to take into account in a very small time period
mideon2000 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:36:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My madden skillz say otherwise.
not_stephan_pastis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:37:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
God I go to Panthers games a few times a year, and there's a 24-or-so-year-old who ALWAYS criticizes Mike Shula (the Panthers offensive coordinator). He hates whenever they run the ball.
The Panthers were 2nd in the league in rushing yards and scored the most points. And were 15-1. And Cam Newton was MVP. The play calling is fine.
pjabrony ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:06:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe, but there's a few things I can do:
kingsfan34 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:35:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
HS football coach here. I remember nearly shitting myself the first time I called plays in a game. You have to know everything that's going on the field and you have to have your next several moves planned. Then when those don't work, you have to have several more moves planned to fix it.
UJChris ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:35:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Liar... I know more than all those bums and I prove it from the comfort of my couch every weekend. /s
AfroKing23 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:19:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep. I've been around football since I was born (literally. I was born and a month later I was in Cincinatti for my Uncles first pre season game). The amount of shit coaches go through, especially good ones, is ridiculous. High expectations, constant accusations of cheating and recruiting, consistent criticisms and all on top of dealing with teenagers or young adults who are still practically kids? Good lord they need all the assistant coaches they can get.
IndieHamster ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:08:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Someone should have told Bevell
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:47:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm pretty sure I could do better than my ASU Sun Devils coaching staff. All he does is blitz.
quicksilver991 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:00:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Don't talk about the Toddfather like that, boy.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:09:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hah, he's a snake oil salesman.
quicksilver991 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:45:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
He'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
rawfodog ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:04:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Idk, Todd Haley still has a job which is encouraging for the rest of us!
FiftySixer ยท 337 points ยท Posted at 14:21:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write poetry. I've met two people who hardcore identified as poets and believed they could make a living doing it.
MpVpRb ยท 249 points ยท Posted at 17:25:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
All arts are hard to make money at, but poetry may be the hardest
My ranking, from easiest to hardest (and easiest is not even close to easy)
Crafts (pottery, glassblowing, etc)
Musician
Artist
Actor
Comedian
Dancer(with clothes on, not a stripper)
Poet
mrt90 ยท 230 points ยท Posted at 18:05:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Dancer(with clothes off, stripper)
Crafts (pottery, glassblowing, etc)
Musician
Artist
Actor
Comedian
Dancer(with clothes on, not a stripper)
Poet
MpVpRb ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 18:10:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yup
Reminds me of a time I went to see a modern dance show with my wife. I leaned over and told her.."this is the first time I ever saw women dancing with their clothes on"
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:50:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
and then she gave you a loving elbow to the rib to be quiet and sit still.
MpVpRb ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:22:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
She still considers it the funniest thing I have ever said
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:12:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I found the comedian
[deleted] ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 21:00:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Dancer with clothes off as a woman is easy. Just don't get fat. Dancer as a man requires countless hours of excercise in addition to making eater your second job.
Boukish ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 23:48:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
People downvoting this post clearly must have never been to a small town strip club. The bar is loooow. You don't even have to be skinny, the pole just has to support you!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:33:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
people don't downvote because they think something is factually incorrect. They downvote becasue either they're offended, or becasue the agenda (if you think that the righteousness of your cause makes it not considered an agenda, you're wrong) that they're promoting would be hurt by a comment being read.
Boukish ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:04:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, you're of course right on the latter motivations existing, but people definitely do downvote factually incorrect things.
homoredditus ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:31:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is true. You would think there would be a very high end market for talented close off dancers.
rondell_jones ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:13:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hah! Jokes on you... I'm short, fat and hairy. Ain't no one paying to see me dance naked!
slythir ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 02:52:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Pole dancing is fucking hard. I'd put it before clothed dancing
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 18:58:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You can make some money as a musician fairly easily, but making enough to earn a living is hard. I know people signed to record labels, playing huge festivals, and regularly doing international tours who can't afford health insurance. It's still a shit life unless you become REALLY famous.
MpVpRb ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:02:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
My somewhat-less-than-excellent band passed auditions and got paid to play..at the same place, more than once
My best friend, an amazing musician, who came REALLY close to a record deal is nearly homeless
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:04:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
well its really smart to have a back up plan. Some people use that homelessness to cycle it back into their art and strive to achieve.
Some do succeed after that, and some are just left with a huge gap in employment history without having gained marketable skills.
MpVpRb ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:19:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Agreed
Most of my other musician friends have a money-making career
But, the buddy I was talking about is over 60, with serious medical problems, who has absolutely no skills other than musuc
My crystal balls don't show a happy ending to his sad story
jeteallday ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:18:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a dancer, I agree. This shit is hard.
MpVpRb ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:23:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And really, really unfair
Some say, work hard..succeed in life
Some of the hardest working people imaginable are dancers, artists and musicians. Rarely, they make a living at it. Most often, they have two paths, find another way to make money, or be poor
jeteallday ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:44:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Trying to find jobs as a dancer is near impossible. And making a stable, decent amount of money? Forget about it. The only good thing is that you get to do what you love and what you're passionate about every day. Even if you do have to work insanely hard at it for little to no reward, it's worth it.
MpVpRb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:47:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yup..art is cool! I approve!
gacl ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:24:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'd also count animator, and put it just above artist.
scottasin12343 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:36:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
right... playing music is just one step up from making windchimes out of trash... do you play? do you sing? do you do both at the same time? what style? there is hardly a more competitive profession with more dedicated artists than music. and if you want to write your own lyrics... well then you've just added poetry to it, which is apparently the most difficult.
MpVpRb ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:15:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have been working with musicians since 1967, mostly as an engineer. I once owned a recording studio, and worked in the R&D department of a major musical instrument manufacturer. Most of my friends are musicians or instrument makers
I tried for many years to learn to play the drums, got kinda good. I tried even longer to learn to sing, got a bit better, but still not what I would call good. I tried and failed to learn piano. I currently compose prog rock for virtual instruments..so YES I have a really good idea how hard it is
But, my somewhat-less-than-excellent band passed auditions and got paid to play, and even got hired back at the same place
scottasin12343 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:35:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
fair enough.
Filth090 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:09:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
except glassblowing has a huge overhead. if you can learn other glass disciplines, like kiln forming, or lampworking you can get something set up for under tens of thousands of dollars, but materials and energy and facilities are all very expensive things
thatbadassAssin ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 14:45:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I want to know them, pls. Twitter, Instagram... thx a lot.
exeia ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:31:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
sam, you're on every thread man
ryanoc7 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:03:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
check out tylerknott on instagram
chesuccesso ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:04:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No one can make a living off of publishing books of poetry in the US. Not even national poet laureates. To make it in poetry is to publish enough and establish a reputation that makes you desirable for full time faculty positions at universities. They don't even have literary agents for poetry.
godless-life ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:36:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Really? I wouldn't know any person in the world right now who can live off their poetry.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:59:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
True. Simon Armitage lectures at a university for money, and he's one of the best selling poets in the UK.
copiouscuddles ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:57:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep even if you're awesome at poetry good luck making any money, especially when the most compensation you'll usually get for being published in a literary journal is a free copy of the issue.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:49:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's one of those things where anyone can technically do it, but few people will ever have the talent and put in the hours to do it well. That's actually a common theme in this thread.
Meowymeow88 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:05:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
-Patrick Rothfuss
motherpluckin-feisty ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:33:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Poet: that is not a job
It's hard, but there, I said it
Go get a job that pays the bills
And save your prose for Reddit.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:50:56 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Remove "Go" from line 3 and it has perfect rhythm. Nice job, way better than haikuberry. That dude has never even tried to write an actual haiku.
motherpluckin-feisty ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:07:37 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thankyou. I do however really think u/poem_for_your_sprog has this market sewn up
MrXian ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:45:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know a poet. Amazing artist. He doesn't make a living doing it.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:04:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That makes me laugh. The best selling poets tend to lecture at university/college to earn money.
2ndzero ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:10:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know any living full time poets
deltopia ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:11:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Poetry's unique because there's zero bar to entry. Everyone you've ever met has tried to scratch out at least a little poetry, at least a limerick or a haiku. People know words are powerful, so the compulsion to try to make their own words powerful is irresistible.
I've met a couple of people who considered themselves poets and had not yet starved to death -- combining that with being a guest lecturer at colleges, writing music, and that sort of back-up work was a factor for all of them.
MisterTwindle ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:07:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Any one who decides to do art of any kind for money needs to be dipped in cold water.
Vpie649 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 04:09:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
/u/Poem_for_your_sprog
tehjoshers ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:05:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
... Is not that great of a poet...
omglolnub ยท 396 points ยท Posted at 15:33:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Touring musician.
"Must be nice to play songs for a living. I'm good at guitar/singing/etc. Easy work!"
Unfortunately, people seem to forget that being on tour is like being on constant business trips for your job. A lot of sacrifices are made - miss out on family and friends events like weddings and birthdays and especially watching kids grow up, holidays - stuff that normal people get to do that a touring musician doesn't get to do cause they're not around...yay Thanksgiving dinner at Denny's in the middle-of-fuck-nowhere Midwest cause it's dinner time and literally nothing else is open.
Not to mention bus life is like sharing a hallway to live in with 8-12 people (band + crew); even worse if you're in a van, which is 90% of touring bands cause a bus is roughly $1,000 a day to run - gotta have label support or someone with a lot of money! So no privacy or real ability to get "alone time" away from people on the tour when you're fed up with their shit; even if it's just mildly annoying mannerisms, being stuffed in a small space with them with no escape can drive a person insane.
I could go on and on, but every time I hear people say, "Oh, so and so is an idiot for quitting Band X! They were living the dream and threw it away," I wanna lose it. It takes a special breed of person to live the life of being on the road a lot, and that's just for being in the 1% of mid level to headlining national club acts (play 1-2k person venues). Burnout happens and some people just can't take it anymore or were never built for the rigors of the road (or also want to make more money than a part time Starbucks barista).
Bonus - why do so many touring musicians end up with substance abuse problems? Sure, some are psychologically fucked up addicts (hi Wes Scantlin!) but many others get them cause of "hurry up and wait, especially when more of the day-to-day tour activities get delegated to crew so the band doesn't have to worry about them (gotta keep them fresh to give their best performance). It's like being on your business trips, but you're back at the hotel and..."now what do you do?" All the time.
Edit: another bonus! Showering and personal hygiene is a pain in the ass on the road. Most American clubs don't have showers, so unless you have a place to stay that night (and not driving 13 hours to the next show cause tour routing is not necessarily designed to make sense for traveling in comfort), you get to love wet wipes and stuff like that. Staying healthy - some call it "Bus AIDS" but you can imagine what happens to that bus or van crammed with people when one of them catches a cold or flu :( (always keep hand sanitizer on you!). And diet - to eat and not get fat on the road without blowing a hole in your food budget is really difficult to do unless you're creative, too. (Ask veterans of touring for tips to survive a bit better on the road).
[deleted] ยท 121 points ยท Posted at 17:00:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I had a very idealistic dream of the road before I actually got on it, being on tour is basically just hoping to God that the next exit has something other than fucking subway.
omglolnub ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 17:20:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh god, this. Subway and Taco Bell. And yeah, living off the dollar menu (or stranger's gifts of food - so much baked ziti...) is a good way to get fat on the road unless you are a fitness freak (and as such, probably not partaking in the 2am stops at McDonalds). Although it's a smart investment to have a membership to one of the gyms that has locations nationwide cause it's a place to work off all that terrible eating and more importantly, a place to shower cause 90% of American clubs seem to have this hatred of giving the talent they pay to bring in a place to clean up after working for them.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 17:26:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously. Clubs nowadays are stingy as fuck, idk if it's over saturation of the talent market or what but I feel like I'm begging for my guarantee every night or getting offered some shitty door split in a new market. Just five years ago I feel like I could get 500$, a catering budget and a hotel room out of the club without much of a hassle.
omglolnub ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 18:10:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like it really depends on the city you're playing at (and the venue). Some places that are hard up for entertainment will pay a lot more. Those places tend to be middle of nowhere Dakotas or something, though :(
And if you ask LA musicians about payment methods, they'll give you a blank stare of confusion or ask, "Wait, I'm not paying you to play this show? Wow!" -Source, lived in LA
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:26:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Same with Nashville. You're lucky here to get the 50$ base pay downtown. You play for tips and exposure. Lol
omglolnub ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:41:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I know about the honky tonk bars on Broadway in downtown. You really have to have a good frontman to work the crowd, but a good one can really get the band tipped well. It's interesting to see cause I never really see a tip jar system like Nashville elsewhere.
garvap ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:12:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
All you can eat $4.99 buffet? Yes, please. Also, I'm not driving the next 200 miles. Your turn.
omglolnub ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:27:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Veteran move - eat yourself into a food coma, then don't drive hahaha
mcfly357 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:13:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
hahahaha yes!!!! fucking subway or wendy's, every meal for months. walmart is also way less exciting when you in the parking lot every night.
also, the constant struggle of finding a bathroom with a toilet seat/door. i seriously know where every legit bathroom is in the continental US and most of the UK/EU.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:28:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've mastered the ol foot on the stall door to keep it closed maneuver hahaha Love's and other truck stops are a godsend.
mcfly357 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:33:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
we used to be "shit techs" for each other. my guitar tech would often times be my human bathroom stall door, and i would be his. then it gets to the point where you just don't give a shit anymore. and of course there is always the girls bathroom before doors open! often times nastier, but almost always can count on there being a door and toilet seat.
i've seen so many hulk smashed toilet seats on tour. i seriously don't get who would manually rip a toilet seat in half haha.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:35:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Bands that shit together stay together.
mcfly357 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:46:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
truer words have never been spoken my friend
tomdelongethong ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:07:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a tour manager, I feel your pain.
omglolnub ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:16:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Also, username checks out
omglolnub ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:12:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Gives a respectful bow You sir/ma'am are the herder of cats otherwise known as the band and crew, often with no thanks, so take my sincere thanks! We wouldn't know what to do (quite literally) without you!
tomdelongethong ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:42:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you!
belethors_sister ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:16:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Aspiring cat herder here; hello there! How long have you TM'd?
tomdelongethong ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:42:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Also pretty aspiring, about a year.
belethors_sister ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:37:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's awesome! What genre?
tomdelongethong ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:22:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Punk and indie rock in the Twin Cities!
belethors_sister ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:55:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh man, the Twin Cities are amazing for Indie (don't know much about the punk scene). You don't happen to know a girl named Tarynn Law, do you?
tomdelongethong ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:15:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not personally, but I know people who do!
belethors_sister ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:26:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Same here
iwrestledaDanaonce ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:50:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Touring in a band is an absolute blast.
But, it is not the glamour of the 30/60 minute set, it's the other 23 hours that really separates the local guitar heros from the true aspiring musicians. Its why bands break up. You spend 24 hours a day in a cramped van with 6 people you call friends for a month or two and then you learn EVERYTHING you hate about them. I wouldn't trade those days for anything in the world, but it is definitely an aquired taste.
omglolnub ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:56:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh I agree. I love it too. It just can be wearing at times. And the civilians don't understand the life at all, haha
AgoraiosBum ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:27:52 on January 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
too much attention unavoidably destroyed us
4 kids on tour, 3000 miles
in a 4-door car not know what was goin' on
we got a million years
tourin' out like this hell
no no premonition could've seen this
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:08:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As somebody who doesn't smoke, touring with smokers (as many touring musicians are) is difficult because if they're smoking you're pissed off and if they're not smoking they're pissed off.
In a high-stress atmosphere like touring, smoking is often a requirement to maintain a relaxed demeanor. I can't because I'm the singer and I've got to protect my instrument.
People act like touring musicians are dicks, but the reality is that touring makes you into a dick.
omglolnub ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:15:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Switch them to edibles! :) :) I kid, I kid. Stoned band mates open a whole 'nother case of problems.
Feel you on the smoking thing. I sing and guitar, so I can't indulge even if I wanted to (and cringe when singers do).
mcfly357 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:22:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
if i smoke a cig, i can't sing for a week. i don't get how some singers can chain smoke and then sound amazing.
omglolnub ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:25:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Luck. Genetic freak luck.
Scrappy_Larue ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 16:45:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My son is currently in a band that's doing very well locally in a major city. A growing fan base, the press loves them - and they'd probably find success on tour. Nobody is jumping at that because they're a little older, wiser, and have been doing this a very long time. Playing a couple shows one state over is one thing. Committing to an actual tour is huge. Quitting jobs, selling assets, and joining that circus. The nightly grind, essentially fishing for success to fall in your lap. If that never happens, it's not the lifestyle any of them want. I think they'll only do it if a single should go huge first. They would tour to support the success they already have - rather than rolling the dice searching for it.
omglolnub ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 17:14:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The best advice I could suggest is if everyone in your son's band is working productive jobs, line up everyone's vacation and sick time and burn all of it for one 2-4 week tour (play at least 15 shows, preferably 20-25) opening for a larger, known band that they have connections with, burning all the accrued paid time off. Preferably not as a buy-on (aka paying that headliner to take you on tour), but it may be worth the investment depending on how presently relevant the headliner's fit for your son's band (definitely don't buy-on for a tour with a washed up band) and if that headliner makes sense for your son's bands image and sound.
1) at least on this "make or break" tour, they wouldn't have to worry about making money from the shows thanks to getting that sweet PTO from work, cause the first tour will probably lose a lot of money, but that's kinda how it is performing for people who've never seen your act before.
2a) if the tour is a smashing success and gets them large indie/major label interest (as this tour is really to promote awareness of the band), then you have the good problem of wondering if it's a good idea to "turn pro."
2b) If not, then your son's band can know that they gave it a good kick at the can - they can still play hometown and surrounding regions and continue to develop a following for the band that way while still keeping their day jobs. Less likely to be discovered, but you never know who's in the audiences of shows, since they're in a major city (hopefully not a state like Connecticut or other backwater music locales that no one in the industry cares about).
Scrappy_Larue ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:20:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks - and they're somewhat doing this. They've accepted a bunch of out of state shows and have all blocked out time to play for a couple weeks. Much of it backing up a band they're friendly with. For a long time - getting the band on the same page was like herding cats. But they seem to have a committed grouping now. If there's a chance of being discovered in some way, they're doing it in the perfect places. Major entertainment hot spots. I don't want to be more specific.
omglolnub ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:39:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No worries for keeping it all on the DL. Sounds like they have a good plan put together! And yeah, just getting organized is hard enough sometimes!
belethors_sister ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:51:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Same with flying. I work with musicians who fly easily 150-200 days a year. I'm working on getting into tour managing so eventually I'll do that as well, but I also want to tear my hair out when others say 'wow you get to travel! So cool wish I could!'
omglolnub ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:58:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh man, being a TM is like being a professional cat herder. But if you can do it well, you're worth your weight in gold in the eyes of the touring industry and will never be looking for work.
belethors_sister ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:29:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know, I'm pretty sure I'm mental that it's what I want to do, but that's how it goes. At the moment I'm just a PA and stage manager, but I want to learn more before I take a stab at TM; there are so many bad ones out there I don't want to be one of them, you know?
omglolnub ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:46:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For sure and hey, TM is the next step up on the ladder for being on the support side of the touring industry.
belethors_sister ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:17:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It is indeed and I'm very excited to learn more. Now my biggest problem is being a chick in the industry.
omglolnub ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:26:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yikes. I don't envy your struggle :( touring industry is so sexist.
belethors_sister ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:31:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It is. It really is. I'm always very professional, even when I'm not working, dress modestly, never complain and take on the tasks the men are given, never act even remotely interested in anyone in the industry and I'm still having a damn near impossible time. I can't imagine how difficult it is for girls who aren't as professional acting or prettier thans I am.
omglolnub ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:37:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly, you're doing it the right way and people will respect you for it in the long run. Hooking up with talent in the industry might get you a little bit ahead in the short term, but people will talk and know that you're someone's toy and won't take you seriously.
belethors_sister ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:46:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know! I've only been tempted once, and I was able to maintain total professionalism around him (then fan girl out in secret with my non-industry roommates).
Sometimes it seems like sleeping your way in is the only way; I felt really bummed after reading a thread on here recently about how most powerful and famous actors and musicians have had to do something sexual to get ahead. I started to think 'well it seems so common place, and if it worked for (super famous actress) it might work for me' but then how can I tell who is being genuine and who is going to use me'...but I know it isn't, there are plenty of girls who have made respectable careers for themselves and I just look up to them.
omglolnub ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:24:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Haha I know how hard it is not to fangirl (or my case, fanboy) when around someone you really like. I just try to remember that they're people too and if you play it cool and act normally, they'll like it a lot (no pics/autograph requests).
And yeah, it gets to be super discouraging when you hear those "whorer" stories. But I'm glad you realize you can be successful while keeping your dignity and self respect :) and frankly, it's just good karma in the long run
belethors_sister ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:54:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Oh man, well with him it wasn't the fact he is famous but the fact he is physically, mentally and interests wise my ideal guy. It was as of every trait I ever wanted in a mate was manifested in him. My crush was so bad you could just mention his name and I would turn bright red. I'm long past that crush, he's now married, but still, pretty funny.
Anyway, as fate would have it I ended up getting him for a string of events in Miami a few years ago. Since I was put up in a really sweet hotel for a week I brought my two roommates to actually enjoy the amenities while I worked. So we go to the first event and I'm getting super nervous/excited. My roommate said when we were backstage, he walked up and asked me a question and I answered him in the coolest, most professional tone. As soon as he was out of ear shot I tuned to my roommates, sighed then squealed 'he talked to me!' They thought it was hilarious how I'd snap into super professional mode when he came around then I'd go giddy fan girl when he walked away. Haha
But yeah, I can't lie taking the moral high road and not whoring my way in has been very slow and frustrating; I've been disappointed by plenty of TMs on my wish list, but eh. I don't think I could love with myself if I slept my way in. I'm very proud of my work, I can't tarnish it. I'm not going to throw away years of my life and thousands of my own money for a brief moment of fun. Besides, if I can resist my dream guy I can resist anyone else.
halibutcrustacean ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:59:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If that's literally your biggest obstacle, you're doing pretty damn good.
belethors_sister ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:59:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not really. Being a girl in this industry is like the most impossible thing ever.
mcfly357 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:21:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
i have toured with SOOO many incredibly shitty TMs. if you are good at it, and respectful, you'll work forever. a good TM is hard to find. good luck!
belethors_sister ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:25:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My biggest fear is being a shitty TM. I have a list of TMs I want to train under but sadly being a chick in the industry makes things more difficult than helpful.
mcfly357 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:30:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
best tour manager I ever had was a girl :) but i agree, dudes can be crazy disrespectful to girls on tour. you can definitely do it though!
belethors_sister ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:39:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you can find us we're usually pretty good because we've had to work so hard to get there only an idiot would not take it seriously. Same with stage managers, one of the best I ever had was a girl.
Yeah I've had some pretty awful stuff said to me both on tours and when applying/expressing interest in tours. You just have to not let them get to you, because the second they see even the tiniest flaw or crack you're done.
mcfly357 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:56:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
yeah, i think initially people just think you won't be able to pull your weight (which i'm sure isn't true for you). but we've all seen it a bunch of times where a guy in the band brings his gf to sell merch or something, and she won't load in, isn't at the table half the time, and just complains constantly. i think that's why girls get a bad rap...just a few shitty ones spoiling it for the hard working girls. but once you've built up your rep as being a hard worker/not someone along for the ride, you'll get those jobs (and it sounds like, with your work ethic, you'd keep them!). i feel like once you find the band that's right for you, you'll know and they'll know instantly. like i said, it's so hard to find the right person that gets along with everyone in the band/yet garners respect at the same time. oh, and also, tour managing school is ridiculous. we've had a few guys over the years provided by management or the label that just finished tour managing school...and every time they failed miserably. you can't learn how to tm from a book. real life situations don't work like that. those guys had a real awakening when they realized how different actual touring was from what they learned in school.
belethors_sister ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:04:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm one of those who groan when I see someone's girlfriend on their tour because it usually means a huge hassle and drama.
But yeah, I've been working at this for a few years to prove myself. I'm 5', 110lbs but I'm there pushing gigantic amps up the ramp into the semi, scaling the huge steel stages to reconnect a wire or body checking dudes who are trying to get too close to my artist or on the stage area. It's pretty funny to watch me intimidate these big security guards when they mistake me for a groupie or when the promoter is being a shit-bag, not wanting to pony up their end of the bargain. My degree is in International Trade Law and while I didn't take the bar to become a lawyer I can negotiate and argue like one. :D
mcfly357 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:59:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
amazing! one of my favorite stories from when we were still starting out. we had a super small guarantee (like $200 or something), and the promoter was trying to get out of paying us by saying he didn't hit the split point and there weren't enough people there to pay us. the room was completely full though. turns out he put like 100 people on the guest list at a 300 cap venue so it would look like we didn't sell it out. after arguing about the money for about 15 minutes, our tour manager (one of the good ones) pretended like he was giving up and reached out his hand to shake hands with the promoter. when the guy shook our TM's hand, our TM HANDCUFFED the guy to him (promoter's wrist to TM's wrist). he then threw me the key and said "don't uncuff either of us until he pays us", then he looks at the guy and says "we're walking to the fucking ATM". it was so fucking badass, and sure enough, the guy paid us what we were owed!
belethors_sister ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:28:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hahaha omg, I will always carry handcuffs on me for now on. That's so brilliant!
ninjette847 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:08:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In the book Please Kill Me, I thought all of the tour managers interviews were kind of funny because they just seemed annoyed. It must be really hard wrangling musicians especially if they do a lot of drugs.
mbpboy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:28:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Reading your paragraph on the substance abuse made me sad when I thought about Chris Wolstenholme. But then I'm happy when I realize he's good now, with the help from writing his two songs.
omglolnub ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:45:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh did he get problems cause of the road or did he have outstanding mental illness prior to getting huge with Muse? Good to hear that he's okay now, though. It's hard to stay sober on the road when you're surrounded by it all.
mbpboy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:53:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, his dad was a major alcoholic (died at age 40) and he said he was a bit desensitized to heavy drinking. He said when he turned 30 he realized he could be dead in 10 years. His drinking problem really started when they where recording the resistance. When they where planning the 2nd law it was so bad Matt and Dom worked on the first half of the album on their own. Finally he talked to them about it, even saying if they wanted he would quit the band. To which Matt told him "Without you, there is no band". Chris saw counseling and wrote "Save Me' and "Liquid State" on the 2nd law. He is now luckily better, and is no longer struggling with it.
omglolnub ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:38:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ohhh I gotcha. I can relate to the fact that it can be hard to see how far down that hole you are. I've been sober 2 and 1/2 years!
The difference and why I mention Wes from Puddle of Mudd is that he's an unrepentant asshole and drug addict. He could really do with going sober and actually being a decent human being (he has a teenage son FFS!), but y'know..step 1 is admitting there's a problem.
Of course, the guy lip synchs live, so that's fun, too.
ianmilham ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:19:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've got friends in a couple of those 1%/headlining bands, and while it's awesome to come to a show and visit, when I see the amount of work involved and the sacrifices they make, I'm not sure I'd trade places with them.
mcfly357 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:16:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
i've always like the saying, don't be a musician because you want to be -- be a musician if you HAVE to be.
omglolnub ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:39:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, it's not easy, but if it's something you love above everything else and can live with the sacrifices, it can be worth it.
_effy_ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:11:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
i've got an acquaintance who is a musician. just a british dude with a guitar, doing some folk rock blues-y stuff. he's not very well known but he has musician friends all over the world and he plays at small venues and bars with 50 - 100 people tops. he loves his life and is constantly on tour. and by constantly, i mean that. last time he was in my town, he said that in the year before he was like 270 days of the year on the road. he was playimg on christmas eve and christmas day in finland, i think.
basically when he ends a tour, he's at home for a couple of days before heading out again. normally he's twice a year in my town.
dude's in his thirties and has had a girlfriend for years who lives in london (i think) full time.
you certainly have to really love what you do, because not everybody would be able to live like that. and i think he deserves a lot of respect for that.
omglolnub ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:25:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wow that's super impressive, although actually a bit easier to pull off financially if you tour solo. Feeding, lodging, and traveling only one person doesn't cost a lot compared to revenue, even if it's playing for small places. But that lifestyle of always gone, gotta hand it to him, that would break me.
_effy_ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:35:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
it definitely is. as far as i know he's got his own car which he uses when touring mainland europe. sometimes he takes the train.
he crashes a lot on couches of his friends in the cities he plays, there's always someone who's got a sleeping place for him. so the cost isn't such a big deal for him.
but the dedication, the missing out on friends' and his girlfriend's lives is something not everyone would be able to take. but he seems happy with his life, he's a really fun dude, so i guess whatever works for him.
omglolnub ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:00:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well like any relationship, if you're crazy about each other and entirely too trusting of each other, it can work!
I just think it's neat that he's made it work for him to be totally independent and can do what he wants, and not be led around by the nose by some suits at a record label...and can financially take care of himself.
_effy_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:49:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
pbviously they are or they wouldn't have been together for so long. i just couldn't deal with not seeing my SO for two thirds of the year and missing birthdays, anniversaries and such.
yeah, totally. he does record stuff and sell cds but all in his own pace and on his own terms which is definitely great.
paulcannonbass ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:17:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I'm on tour about 100 days out of the year. The conditions are a little better than you describe, but we're a group of about 20 musicians so it's usually more cost effective to take trains or fly. Still, the constant travel is really draining, and it can be difficult to find the energy for a concert after a long day of travel and 4 hour sound check.
My facebook feed looks like a dream to most people. I always try to post a picture of whatever city/exotic location I'm visiting. What they don't see is that I only had five minutes to take that picture before I had to go to rehearsal, play the concert, or catch the bus transfer. Unless we're staying in one place for a longer project, I don't have any time to walk around or see the city. There's a big difference between touring for work and being a tourist.
I hit a low-ish point on Thanksgiving 2014, about five months after I joined the band. We'd just finished a concert in Berlin and I was feeling homesick. I just wanted some pumpkin pie. I'm the only American in the group, so everyone else went back to the hotel to sleep or have a drink in the lobby. I walked around for a few hours and eventually found a cheesy American-themed diner around 1 in the morning. I was excited for a minute, until I asked inside and found out they didn't know it was Thanksgiving and had never heard of pumpkin pie. I had to settle for a glass of Hefeweizen and a sub-par burger.
The worst tour story I know about happened a few years before I joined. The group was playing in Istanbul when those volcano eruptions in Iceland forced all air travel in Europe to be cancelled for two weeks. The group had a concert in Frankfurt, Germany, two days later and had to charter a bus to drive them through the night. They were on a bus for 40 hours and had to go straight to rehearsal on arrival.
Wait, no. The worst tour they did was in 2003. They were placed under quarantine on a trip to Taiwan during the SARS outbreak. They had to spend two
weeksdays trapped in their hotel, under the impression they were all going to die.Edit: Found an article about the SARS thing. They were quarantined for two days before being allowed to leave the country following a medical examination. Article
omglolnub ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:05:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh my mistake, I should've clarified that I'm talking about rock bands or western music where it's like 3-6 people in the group. Orchestras do a bit better and in America, more likely recognized for doing Union work and getting those wages via the AFM and stuff like that.
But your war stories still really ring true!
paulcannonbass ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:40:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I knew you were talking about rock bands, but touring is touring. Our band is not unionized (we're based in Germany), and it's not uncommon for us to have working conditions the AFM would never accept. The musicians own the organization, which is really uncommon in classical music.
We do have an office and staff who handle our travel arrangements, stage and road crew to handle equipment, and a manager who books the gigs, but that's a luxury the group had to work for over a decade to get. Of course it's not the same as driving cross country in a van to play $50 gigs in divey clubs, but there's an even bigger difference between that and a headliner rock band playing sold out stadiums. We never get the superstar treatment.
Back in the 80's, the percussionists were loading, driving, unloading, setting up, rehearsing on, performing on, taking down, and reloading all their own equipment for every show. Those sets can often include hundreds of pieces of percussion and stands, and I can't imagine how they had the energy to do that every day.
Full size orchestras are a very different beast. Tours are rare, expensive, and very well organized. If an American orchestra wants to do a five city European tour, they will need at least $1 million to pay for it. Normally, they will charter a flight for their 80-100 musicians and accommodate them in four star hotels. Since, at most, this would happen once a year, the musicians see it as more of a vacation than anything else. Five cities a year is a fun trip. 100 cities in a year is torture.
omglolnub ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:48:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wow! I'm super impressed. It's great that your orchestra has a good support staff, but I can easily believe getting your whole group going for 100+ dates a year is crazy difficult.
paulcannonbass ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:05:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well, 100 concerts would be a very good year for us. Normally we'd be closer to 70, with perhaps 15 of those in our home town. Some of them would be chamber music shows with just 5 or 6 players, which are much easier and cheaper to organize. The most complicated projects are big stage productions with sets, actors or dancers.
I was a member of the AFM briefly before I moved to Europe. As a working musician, their conditions were super nice but a giant pain in the ass for management. It also severely limits the artistic possibilities unless you have tons of spare cash to satisfy their requirements. The AFM requires extra payment if you want the musicians to wear costumes, act, or do anything at all unusual. They control precisely how long rehearsals and breaks can be, even the temperature of the venue. The rules regarding tours are especially difficult: quality of accommodations, minimum resting time between travel and working, substantial per diems, etc. It's great for the performers, but very expensive.
omglolnub ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:29:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, as a pro-Union person, it's a struggle. We deserve to be treated like human beings, but people really suck at understanding musicians are people and need to pay for entertainers like other things. Like, they'll throw away money on stupid plastic crap, then turn around and stiff entertainers. Lots of work to do for everyone to make this better.
mcfly357 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:19:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
my first "this sucks" moment was also thanksgiving. im from CA and we were at a cracker barrel in syracuse. it fucking sucked. and that part about being on tour is not being a tourist. people don't understand how incredibly shitty it is to drive a 35ft RV and 18ft trailer into NYC on a friday at 3pm. can't take the holland cause you got propane, can't take the lincoln cause you have a trailer...gotta take the washington bridge, but the GPS doesn't understand that. get to the end of a mile long 1 way street with 1ft of clearance on each side...then road closed..have to back out. then gotta go park at a hotel in new fucking jersey because it's faster than trying to find a parking spot.
oh, and $18 for a pack of shitty cigs. i'm so happy i didn't smoke while on tour, would have spent all my perdiem money.
paulcannonbass ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:37:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know what it is about Thanksgiving. They're not the kind of stories that make it into those old vh1 Behind the Music shows where your bandleader kills himself after overdosing on heroin, but they are really human moments. I'm usually so busy working that I don't take time to reflect on the kind of life I'm living and the friends and family I moved away from to have the musical career I wanted. Sitting alone in a Berlin diner while my friends back home were all eating great food together, that was lonely. Not cry-in-my-beer sad, but definitely sit-and-ponder sad.
Last year wasn't much better. I was in rehearsal until 10:30 at night and came home to some frozen pizza and a bottle of bourbon. I had an American friend visiting at the time, so at least we weren't alone.
mcfly357 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:50:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
also, just missing big life events at home. i missed my niece and nephew being born cause i was in europe. i've missed weddings, i've missed funerals, and it just doesn't get easier in that regard. i definitely think that's the hardest part about touring full time -- just missing the important life events that normal people go through. then i get home, and all my friends are getting married and having kids...buying their first house, etc...and i'm going to the whiskey with a flask in my back pocket haha. i guess it's a trade off, and one that i still think was worth it. i've been to 48 states and like 30 countries, and have many many amazing stories to share. but i'm not gonna lie, every once in a while, i wonder if i made the wrong choice.
guitargamel ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:53:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And even if you're not driving, being in the car 8 hours to sound check at 6pm, then sell merch until you're on at 11 or later leads to some of the longest work days I've ever had.
omglolnub ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:30:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For real! First in, last out. Such long days.
mcfly357 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:09:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
thank you for writing this! you hit the nail on the head.
i did this for ~4 years with 2 bands (metal/screamo/whatever stupid niche genre the kids say we are). i was out like 300 days a year. missed EVERYTHING. people also don't understand how expensive touring is. we started in a van, then had an rv, and eventually were headlining big festival tours (like warped tour) in busses..but as you get paid more, the expenses go up. people don't realize that bus cost us 60k for the tour. our crew cost 40k. everyone has to eat, etc. it was an absolute blast, but the sacrifice is insane, and i'd say 95% of people couldn't handle the conditions. i've had a few buddies come out to sell merch for us thinking it would be the greatest/easiest job ever, and quit within a week.
readjusting to real life was really rough too. can't sleep if i'm not in a moving vehicle, everything is too quiet. i'm sure you know the feeling.
however, i miss it so fucking much. every single tour...after 2 weeks, you want to come home..then after 2 weeks at home, you want to go back out. oh the life of a touring musician.
are you still doing it?! if so, i wish you the best of luck! even with the sacrifices made, it's the best job in the world.
omglolnub ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:35:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Haha yeah metal bands are even harder for conditions. It's like the industry expects a broke 80's punk mindset where everyone sleeps in the floors of the vans because they spent the hotel money on heroin...except now there's no heroin/hotel money to begin with, so park the van in the corner of Walmart, but none of the drug high! Hahaaa
It's cool that you got to rise through the ranks. Nice to hear stories of breaking into the 1% who get to have a bus (let's be honest, millionaire artists are the 0.00000001% haha)! But it must be better having a life again haha
It's hard to readjust either way. I'm off the road working as an accountant cause of not having money, but I'm looking to move back to LA for grad school and do some auditions with the talent scout I know while I'm there's and see what happens.
mcfly357 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:44:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
totally man. our label (both bands were on rise records) told us once that literally 99% of bands cannot sustain themselves on tour, like literally not make enough for gas money + food. it's crazy how expensive touring is, even when you're roughing it. in the van days, we'd always say "when we have enough money for busses, we'll stay in the van to make money!!!" but then once you experience the bus/crew, there is no going back haha. it got to the point where i'd much rather be comfortable and broke then live in a van with 8 guys and a dog and have a few bucks on me.
i'm a data analyst now for a tech company in LA, for the same reason you mentioned. needed to pay rent, and although both bands were successful and making money, i never saw any of it (partially getting screwed by the industry, part of it getting screwed by other dudes in the band being assholes). kind of just fell into this.
feel free to hit me up when you get to LA though! i still have a ton of contacts in the industry, and i'm always getting messages asking if i know anyone who plays x instrument for y tour blah blah. also, it's just rare to find anyone who "gets it", and i'd love to hang/swap tour stories! i'm sure you have some just absolutely batshit ridiculous tour stories, as do i. i've seen some CRAZY shit haha.
man, this convo has been super nostalgic for me and now i miss it more!!! one of my bands is actually in the early stages of doing a reunion record. starting to record again is so fun. we also played a reunion show last year at nokia (at LA Live) with my favorite band of all time which was amazing and totally got me back in that mindset. i swear touring is like an addiction. the itch to play live just never goes away...especially if you've played huge shows in the past. unfortunately, it's so hard to get relevant again.
edit: i'm actually leaving to go to NAMM right now in anaheim, so i'm sure after today i'm going to decide to give it another shot after playing with all the new toys haha.
gearjammer24 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:59:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Same vein truck driver only there is no one else on the bus to talk to its you the road an maybe a dog mayb a partner but for the most part it's you an your missing out on the family an friend events some days it's awesome your climbing the Rocky Mountains sun is shining the lake below is pristine other days ure in a snowstorm battling against every other car driver Mother Nature an idiots in trucks who don't bother with chains an you need to b delivered in Calgary before you've even loaded in Vancouver!! It is not just driving around listening to the radio!
Brio_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:04:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How can I get in on this?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:50:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My dad used to tour with a bunch of big country artists back in the 90s and early 2000s. He explained that the reason artists sometimes get the wrong city when they play is because it's just a constant repetition of "get on bus, travel to the city, wait, play show, get back on the bus, rinse and repeat until the end of tour," so sometimes they don't even realize what city their in or forget.
omglolnub ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:49:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Haha classic rookie mistakes, but they still happen. This is avoided now in two ways. 1) writing the name of the city (and today's date) on the set lists onstage 2) the "tour laminate" ID cards that are on your belt loop should have all the tour dates on one side of the card.
dreydier ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:51:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It seems glamorous. You could be in a beautiful city for the night to play. Never get to see anything except the inside of the venue and then be on your way to the next one. I got around that a little bit by having Sunday shows in a city I wanted to check out, having Monday off or with a mid-afternoon call, Tuesday having a short-ish drive scheduled.
navigatrice ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:06:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm going to appreciate my shower and bed so much tonight. Thank you.
black_brotha ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:31:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Umm
ArtooDetoo89 ยท 188 points ยท Posted at 16:20:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Give advice to depressed people.
Yerwun ยท 28 points ยท Posted at 22:03:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a clinical psychologist or psychiatrist generally. Do you know how long either of them spend in college and training? And while having a condition yourself gives you a valuable perspective, it does not make you an expert either.
subwooferofthehose ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 23:16:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well, I'm a trained therapist myself, and one of the primary advantages I have with my caseload is the fact that I provide services to people who suffer from the same MH issues that I do. It actually helps. But it's not enough. I had to do school, more school, some more school, and then my practicum. It was exhausting. And worth it.
33thirtythree ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 05:00:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Aside from a few possible exceptions, I don't think I want a therapist with the same MH issues treating me. If it's the empathy, that's what (hopefully) friends and family are for. I want my therapist with evidence-based methods and results that match.
There's also the very real risk of said afflicted therapist projecting into the treatment, because damn it he/she knows the research is wrong about that part of the illness.
tl:dr I've met many shrinks on a crusade. Come find me when your peers agree.
subwooferofthehose ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:55:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A valid concern, truly. In my case, it's a matter of it being a common issue that affects a large percentage of the US populace. So having that in my back pocket helps. YMMV, and I'm certainly not recommending that you seek one out that specifically has that empathy.
All methods used in my personal practice are evidence based methods. No Bible thumping, no Big Book recitations, none of that garbage. Why? Because I know from personal experience that it's bullshit. Yes, the 12 step program helps, an yes, I recommend it to my clients, but it's not for everyone, and it's less about the book than the fellowship. 12 steps =/= therapy.
Yes, some therapists (particularly family therapists) project their issues onto their clientele. This is bad. Crusading is bad for their practice, and more importantly for their clients. Objective, scientifically proven methodology works, being a bro with your clients does not.
Doom-Slayer ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:23:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Currently doing my MA in Psychology to be a Psychologist, and the answer? A damn long time. 3 years for a BA in Psych, 3 years in a masters which involves 1 year of full MA level coursework, 1 year of a Thesis, and 1 year of a full internship of 1500 hours plus extra coursework.
Then if you want to specialize into Clinical, its even more work.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:28:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Doom-Slayer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:47:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It really is. I'm aiming for Clinical and I missed the deadline for getting into the Clinical Psych Masters, so I'm doing an ordinary Masters in Psych then I have to specialize in my Doctorate.
Oh and if I don't lift my GPA in both semesters I cant continue.
This is going to be a rough year.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:44:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Also, counselors are not the same as psychiatrists. Being an impoverished rape victim with a mentally abusive step-father, I kept going to counselors and they could not even begin to help me with my problems.
33thirtythree ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 05:09:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know this is a broad brush stroke, but many/most psychiatrists these days have their script pad out before first session. I'm neither a rape victim nor medical professional, but addressing something like rape (so sorry that happened to you, OP) has to at at least include cbt, right??
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:53:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was seeing counselors, they often only have like a bachelor's or master's and aren't trained in cbt. I couldn't afford a psychiatrist.
LonelyCheeto ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:20:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As someone who is interested in working with sexual assault/abuse survivors, can I ask what do you think would have made a good counselor for you? If you don't really know how to answer that question, I understand, and I know each person is different. I just want to help in the best way possible.
Piddly_Penguin_Army ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:34:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not OP, I think you're right when you say everyone is different, but for me I really didn't like that the absolute first question I was asked was "So tell me all the graphic details of your rape." Before getting to know me at all.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:52:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Are you planning on being just a counselor or doing doctoral work and becoming a psychiatrist? My issue was that I couldn't afford a psychiatrist. The counselors that I worked with always reminded me that they were not trained in dealing with my specific issues. The real problem here is that the people who need the most help are the same people who can't afford that help.
_Lady_Deadpool_ ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 01:55:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You have no idea. I'm severely depressed, my entire family thinks the best way to fix it (and the only thing to talk to be about) is to just "be happy and think happy thoughts".
Guffbrain ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 23:23:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Glad to see someone mentioned this. I work in mental health. It's amazing how many people, when their careers in business or whatever are starting to bore them, say, "I think I'd make a great therapist" with no appreciation of the training required.
Furthermore, the number of my clients who, when they're getting better, say, "I think I should become a therapist/counsellor because of what I've been through." And when you politely ask what they think the job will be like, "Well, I'll tell them all about what happened to me . . . " WRONG
thilardiel ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:06:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah. And yet you, the therapist, have done none of that and disclosed very little about yourself (because that's how that works). Oy. I feel yah.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 23:23:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's true. I'm depressed myself but I can't help others for shit, even though I'm going through something similar. All I can do is sit there being just as miserable :(
hotspots_thanks ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:30:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Or even just being helpful to depressed people.
Mchill23 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:22:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Glad I read through this before posting. You beat me to it. I do not know a single person afk who is willing to understand that depression is a medical condition, not a fucking thought process.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:15:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just chin up! Smile! Choose to be happy ;)
ba203 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:29:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Just walk it off." "Go get laid." "Have a night out with the girls"
"... you don't understand how depression works, do you."
"Look, we all have down days."
... aaaaand that's when I drowned them in the pool, Your Honour.
Thepsycoman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:11:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is not something I've ever thought I could do nor wanted to do, but it is unfortunately something I had to do. It barely worked out, and as it turns out I have a talent for it since I mother was trained to deal with it and I learnt a lot off of her.
Dockirby ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:16:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
More specially, good advice. Because just giving advice is in fact very easy.
JimTheFishxd4 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:46:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm training to do this professionally and its still hard.
Piddly_Penguin_Army ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:30:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Also all the people who think they are Psycholgist's when they don't intend to get anything after a BA.
ofoot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:02:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I second this. I tried to help my depressed friends from various forms of advice.... But only they can get themselves out. You just have to be there for them and that's the best you can do.
[deleted] ยท -35 points ยท Posted at 18:59:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
wittlewadio ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 20:01:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You are fucked up
[deleted] ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 20:18:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
wittlewadio ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:58:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Its not something to joke about.
tj8686_ ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 21:36:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Comedy can be made from anything. Learn to not have a stick up your ass.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 21:14:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
FarSightXR-20 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:35:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's a poorly told joke if a lot of people think you're being serious, especially when it comes to jokes about encouraging suicide. There actually are internet trolls out there that sometimes encourage depressed people to commit suicide.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:32:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The '=D' and '!' means they weren't being serious.
Poe's Law strikes again.
[deleted] ยท 132 points ยท Posted at 13:35:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Write poetry and stories. Sure anyone can write. But writing literature that will be accepted for publication/win a competition? It's a proper craft that is hard and takes a long time to do well. I've met many amateur writers who think they're an undiscovered genius but they don't even think about editing a first draft. Most of the things you write will be utter shit. It's one of the first things you should learn and accept.
ericpaz ยท 200 points ยท Posted at 16:53:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wish people
would realize that
writing lame prose
broken up
into lines like this
does not actually count
as free verse
copiouscuddles ยท 34 points ยท Posted at 18:06:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've seen people not even realize that a line break doesn't mean you're supposed to pause in reading a poem out loud.
[deleted] ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 21:01:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
vanderv ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 23:12:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Historically they were broken up to aid memorization, so we could share long works before we could write them down.
In modern poetry they break the work into logical chunks that can then be compared line to line; this allow writers to highlight things like parallelism in semantic, tonal or allusive content etc.
TigerBone ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:07:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ah, that is very interesting. Thanks!
Gameipedia ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 00:17:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
TIL
Cbcash4 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:14:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Beautiful, such art
hefnetefne ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 19:32:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Writing a sentence
With seventeen syllables
Is not a haiku.
Optionions ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 00:52:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wait, so was that a haiku or not?
TLema ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:56:00 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My worldview is skewed now.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:56:06 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, it wasn't. And he's right. The important part is the pivot word that turns two independent thoughts into a novel third thought.
bro9000 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:49:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh I know. I just hate writing poetry and bullshitted through that section of English in high school.
TheCatcherOfThePie ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:18:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But it's meant to show the fractured nature of modern society!
DangerBrewin ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:09:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That didn't rhyme. Edgy.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:32:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Every high school yearbook "poetry" section ever.
Is_A_Velociraptor ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:22:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But I thought free verse meant you could do whatever the hell you want? I'm no poetrologist, though.
homoredditus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:37:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Reddit satire Vitriolic poetry Such meme dankness
chesuccesso ยท 42 points ยท Posted at 16:00:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Especially poetry. A lot of people think it's a step above journaling. I have an MFA in poetry and am pursuing a career. When I tell people I often get an adult version of "that's cute". I'm not journaling! I'm not documenting my fucking feelings! It involves a lot of reading, awareness of the field, laborious hours writing and revising for a single poem. Not to mention that in order to support it you have to teach, so it's like having two full time jobs. Thank you for posting this :-)
MuppetHolocaust ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:42:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I minored in Creative Writing. Poetry workshop courses were always frustrating because most people would bring in what were essentially emo song lyrics. I always tried to be professional and give constructive criticism on how their work could improve, but in most cases it was pointless. (Not that my own work was any good; I'm sure it was just as bad.)
copiouscuddles ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 18:05:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I minored in creative writing too. I liked poetry workshops, but instead of people bringing in "emo song lyrics" there were artsy fartsy poetry snobs. I still get annoyed when I remember some girl in poetry class saying she thought rhyming was "juvenile." I like poetry and like writing it but so much of what's popular now seems to me to be "Make it so weird no one can understand it and then call it artistic."
MuppetHolocaust ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:02:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, I definitely saw a lot of that too!
ayechrissy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:47:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
God, you are so right. I'm currently doing my MFA in poetry and am an editor for a big lit journal and so many of my editors will only vote to take things that are so weird and abstract that they MUST be good.
copiouscuddles ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:51:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you really want to be depressed about the state of poetry, try this website that asks you to guess if a poem was written by a human or a computer: http://botpoet.com/
chesuccesso ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:33:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
LOL, I know exactly what you mean, especially on the undergraduate level.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:06:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Crazy how a poem-for-your-sprog makes it looks so easy.
[deleted] ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 17:22:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Okay this might be really controversial but here goes:
The poems are funny and clever but they're not grade-A quality by a long way. It looks so easy because it kind of is. Almost anyone can write a poem like she does if they know how to rhyme and count syllables because that's pretty much all she does. I enjoy the account and they make me laugh, but in terms of the craft of poetry, they're just that: good fun.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:40:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lol don't worry about that. Reddit get off on contrarian views like that.Even this post might get upvoted because it's calling reddit out on it's own contrarianism. The circle-jerks and counter-jerks never end, even if you have a valid opinion on a matter.
But I suppose that makes sense(In reference to PFYS). Popular content on the internet is rarely the most esoteric.
SoupOfTomato ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:38:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I've always thought this. I'm amused by the post and all that follows is replies like "LITERALLY ROBERT FROST", as if a funny rhyme is a masterwork of the language.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:35:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wouldn't expect Sprog to make grade-A poetry since he takes, what, an hour at most to write them? I think Sprog's appeal lies more in his ability to quickly and consistently write amusing and sometimes touching poems about any random subject. If I read his poems in a book, I don't think they would have anywhere near the same charm that they do when I come across one in a thread.
IrrelevantLeprechaun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:21:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What applications does an MFA in poetry even have?
chesuccesso ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:57:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Usually a combination of poems, a critical essay (this would be writing on someone else's work, usually analysis of a single poem), a personal statement, letters of recommendation, and sometimes the GRE.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:08:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
chesuccesso ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:45:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, LOL! There aren't any. To be successful as a poet means to publish books and establish enough of a reputation to be desirable for full time positions in creative writing departments at universities. You don't need a degree to do that. People enter MFA programs to become better writers. It may help you on an application if you have a couple books under your belt, but the couple books are what you need. The degree alone will get you nothing if you're not published. Personally I had an excellent experience at my MFA and am a much stronger writer in ways I couldn't have developed had I not gone. But I went knowing it would get me no job besides the crap adjunct position I have now where I get paid below the poverty line. Maybe someday I'll get to the point of being qualified to teach as a full time creative writing faculty member, but most of us won't.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:46:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
chesuccesso ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:25:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you!
quilladdiction ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:28:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Damn, Poetry MFA, nice one, I bailed as fast as I could after my Fiction B.A. Always been a little bit jealous of poets, mostly because I suck at poems but also because I always figured you'd need an amazing work ethic to keep up with it, which is something I don't quite possess. If I did maybe I'd actually finish a story I've started for once :/
That aside, oh man I hate the reactions to creatively-focused degrees. "Oh, you write? That's cool... so what's your real job?" Dude... try it. It is a job, not some hobby that you master overnight...
chesuccesso ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:51:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Poets having a strong work ethic is a serious myth! Some do, some don't. I have friends who stick to regimented writing schedules and friends who are totally sporadic about it. I haven't found there to be any correlation between the strength of their work and how they get it done either. Personally I'm a basket case when it comes to writing. No work ethic whatsoever. I write when I feel like it, and I don't see anything wrong with that although it's really frowned upon in the poetry community.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:52:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
copiouscuddles ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:11:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As I commented above, I minored in creative writing in college. There was no lack of criticism of my and others' writing in the program. I didn't much like some of what seemed to be the philosophy of the fiction classes, especially that anything beyond "literary"/realistic fiction was looked down on. If you tried to write anything remotely fantasy the professors hated it. Granted, fantasy is hard to do well, and I suppose being grounded in writing more realistic things first could help, but I didn't see a reason for the complete disdain fantasy and sci fi were shown by the professors.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:03:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I very badly want to write, and the current project I'm working on is slowly coming together. But I'm still in the process of blueprinting. I need to know my characters, I need to know so many little intricate details of the plot, themes, etc before I even dare to try and type out anything. I got the current idea back in the summer and have been ironing it out. Other ideas that I toy around with have been in my head for well over two years and I've still been unable to make any moves on them.
It's really maddening because I feel that this is something I would like to do, but to actually go through your idea and nit-pick it so it would actually read well, even only in theory, really puts how shitty things are in a spotlight. I think it's a good practice to get into, but I'll be damned if it doesn't also destroy your will.
It's slowly coming together I guess. I have a buddy who actually has some published short stories and in explaining my idea to him he's said he quite likes it because it's kind of dark, like a modern Huck-Finn gone wrong.
That's another thing I always worry about too. How much of what I want to write has been done? What ideas am I just re-hashing? At first when he had used Huck-Finn to describe it I was like, "ah yea!" since The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn was one of my favorite stories when I was in highschool. But then I thought, "wait, does this essentially just mean the themes I'm exploring have already been done by someone much more talented than I?"
In this case not really. It shares similarities in that it's about youth exploring the far fringes of society and accepted norms. What I'm exploring does have a bit of a darker feel to it though.
I have so many ideas for short stories as well and even that just hasn't gotten any traction because I spend so much time trying to iron out the plot and make sure there's no holes and such. I got an idea for something in March two years ago and have still been bouncing it around in my head. It would work well as both a long narrative or a short story and I really don't know what direction to take it in, but before that can even be considered I need to make it much more believable as well.
It's so fucking hard.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:18:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I'd argue that every single writer - even best selling authors - always have the same struggles you've described. At least you realise it and know it though. It doesn't get easier but things like "It makes me lose my will" does get easier. I meet far too many amateur writers who believe they're the 1% of writers who don't struggle like we do and it's ridiculously delusional. Taking writing seriously does force you to face harsh realities: sometimes even talent doesn't matter and you're not entitled to be successful. There is hardly anyone on this planet who gives a shit about your post-apocalyptic dystopian scfi trilogy. Getting people to care is about networking, luck, and talent. Being a great writer is a small portion of it all and that's hard enough.
This is the hardest reality to face of all: you could write half a million words and spend five years on your novel...and it'll probably be shit.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:32:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Word, that's exactly why before I venture putting my ideas on paper I need to make sure it all sounds great in theory. I need to make sure that in creating this story in my head I can't take key elements of it and be like, "well wait, theres a hole in the plot here, here, here, this is fluff, this is ridiculous, and this... Well....this is just nonsense!"
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:34:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is why I never edit until I pump out a first draft. The same problems arise of course, but at least I have a draft done even if it's 90% rubbish.
RainbowTuba ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:26:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lyrics too. I can play a mean guitar, but makes me write words for it and I'm lost!
Sorry for the off topic, but is your name a Dimitri Martin reference?
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:39:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No. Randomly saw it on a blog years ago and it cracked me up so I thought I'd use it ha
TheSmileyCactus ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:37:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Writing in general. "I am great at bullshitting, the professor will never know"
TheSmileyCactus ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:37:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Writing in general. "I am great at bullshitting, the professor will never know"
PM_ME_A_SULTRY_LOOK ยท 199 points ยท Posted at 12:39:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Web design and photography.
Salt_peanuts ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:27:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There are so many shitty amateurs that think they are "web designers" it's aggravating.
"$5000?! But my nephew will do it for $425 and some pizza coupons!!" Ok. Give that a shot and let me know how it goes.
electricprism ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:50:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And make sure it has a lot of pizzazz and sparkle, needs more sparkle.
IrrelevantLeprechaun ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:20:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a designer isn't easy but the market is pretty saturated. Outside the market it's difficult but within the market they are a dime a dozen.
They're also pretty poorly paid.
thisdesignup ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:35:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's because the barrier to entry is so low. There are great designers but it's hard to find them within the many sub par designers.
IrrelevantLeprechaun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:40:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The bar for quality isn't high either which is why so many get away with being bad designers and why good designers can't find work.
reagan2024 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:16:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I made a site with Wix. It even has links to Twitter and Facebook. My family and friends say it looks professional. I am now ready to advertise my web design services to local businesses.
MacTheBartender ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:07:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly, go for it. 90% of the time that's all someone needs - someone with half a clue that can set up a Wix site for them.
But unless you want to end up in a special sort of hell, know when to say no. Don't take on clients that want more than you offer, and when someone asks for changes or features to be added that you can't do, just refer them somewhere else. You might even be able to form a relationship with a higher-tier service provider - they'll kick the "I only have $500 and need my business card on the internet." clients to you in exchange for you sending the "Okay, I'm ready to start an eCommerce site now." clients to them.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:26:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a web developer, I find that a lot of people in the industry have forgotten the whole purpose of most businesses having a website - to provide information.
Whether the website for Joe's Pizza was built on Wix/Squarespace, by Joe's nephew, or by a hired professional really doesn't matter. If Joe has good pizza, people will buy his pizza - he site just needs to be not too bad at showing that information.
cwlsmith ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:39:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Basically, any "non-traditional" form of art. Graphic design is another big one.
plainguy01 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:15:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I unfortunately know enough of these "artists" to cause my blood pressure to rise just thinking of it. I know some very good, well trained web designers, photographers, and graphic designers who have lost out on jobs to "artist" who think because they know some html, photoshop, or own a camera that they are professional level. In the end they get money, the clients get crap quality and the the people who know what they are doing move away to get work or take up side jobs to pay the bills.
LessLikeYou ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:52:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Oh man the last company I worked for hired this guy who was a complete jackass. He wasn't a good designer, refused to listen about design principals, &c but he was creative. Every time he'd try to push a site toward production I'd end up changing 90% of it and running it through validator to show him his html fuckups. I'd send it back and he'd get pissed. He'd go to the owner of the company and get his completely jacked up page up.
Within two weeks my changes would be implemented and the page would convert at least 10% better. In one case it was something like 60% because the dumbass screwed up button placement so bad.
Fuck...now I am angry.
cwlsmith ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:29:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's the thing too. Good artists charge a decent amount of money because it's worth it. Clients don't necessarily understand why it might be higher. So then they get a quote from someone who says they can do it for $100 and the client goes with them because it's cheaper.
It's unfortunate. The client doesn't know what is good and bad 90% of the time, so it's all about money.
plainguy01 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:59:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I remember I was helping some friends with a deal one time for redoing a website. They made a bid that was actually really cheap for what they were providing and got under bit by someone's niece or something by about half. In the end the site that went up looks like a late 90's geocities template site, this was in 2010.
Carnivorous_Jesus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:08:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Alternatively: photographing websites
goodnight-everybody ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:52:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
a.k.a. what I want to go to college for :) well, specifically graphic design, but I'd probably be using my degree to work in web design (and minor in photography).
Do you work in either of those fields? Do you have any tips?
electricprism ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:54:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sure:
Tip 1 - Hope you're good at dealing with difficult clients who have no idea what they want and barely understand computers or technology.
Tip 2 - Learn to translate bad input into positive changes then trick client into thinking it was their idea that made the design great.
Tip 3 - Web Design is a bitch, there are many subfascets - Design, Development, Consultation, Client Relations, Sales of Contracts and Billing. Sometimes the lines blur so I hope you're good at all those things.
Tip 4 - Never charge less than 1,000 - 2,000 for even something basic, the work is in the relationship not only in the photoshop time.
Tip 5 - Charge for everything, keep your pimp hand strong.
PM_ME_A_SULTRY_LOOK ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:30:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Good luck! I'm a lawyer.
I'll say this though, I'm that industry your success is often tied to your portfolio. So work hard and try and gain as much experience as possible early on and start building up a professional looking portfolio.
bureX ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:59:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Or web development in general: https://youtu.be/3LkQrtCIFA4
ConfusedGranny ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:32:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Somehow, I read your post twice as 'web design and ponography' and did two double takes wondering how them two entities are related.
Realocalypse ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:41:48 on January 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cutsuuxxgzhuhxyzxzhx cx c c
laterdude ยท 120 points ยท Posted at 13:37:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Directing a movie.
You have a DP to shoot your movie and a screenwriter to pen the script. Audiences aren't that discerning and a 'one take and that's a wrap' guy like Clint Eastwood has more Oscars than a perfectionist like Kubrick. Tom Ford went from the fashion world to directing A Single Man, which earned a 85% on Rotten Tomatoes, so how hard could it be?
The_Batmen ยท 43 points ยท Posted at 14:57:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Once in a while one of those "how hard could it be" guys has the chance to make a movie. The studio gives him a good PD, screenwriter, cutter and actors. While filming they realize the pictures look great but they didn't contribute anything, the actors are great but don't know what they should do because the director doesn't understand his script. While cutting he finally realizes he has no idea what kind of movie he wants to make.
shadinski ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 16:28:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So that's how Fant4stic was made
FearMeIAmRoot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:48:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You spelled Spider-Man 3 wrong.
Assh0lethrowaway ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 03:11:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I feel goddamn awful for posting this (hence the throwaway) and it'll probably make me sound like an asshole. Hell, it probably does make me an asshole.
I think I'm in a relationship with one of these types, and I have no idea how to help her. She's a great person, lovely, and kind and is studying to realise her dream of being a film director. She has the opportunity to be filming stuff now, access to other students who want to make films and would happily be under her direction, but she just doesn't find time.
She and her friends are so sure that it's easy, that they can just do it. They think the work their lecturers set is trash; she's ready for the big time, she just needs a studio to give her a shot and she'd make something amazing.
I feel terrible, because I do love her, but I cannot see this ending any way but badly for her. I have no idea what I can do to change anything, she sure as hell won't listen to me about it, because what do I know?
CDRuss0 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 06:58:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I posted about this above, but directing feature films is damn hard. Imagine you're coordinating a wedding, only this wedding lasts for 12-14 hours a day, 6 days a week, for 6 weeks. And that's just the shoot itself. There's also months (sometimes years, like in the case of mad max) of prep, tweaking script, casting, planning, storyboarding, mountains of paperwork (SOOOOO MUCH PAPERWORK), and after all of that work you then have to sit in a dark room with an editor for months and months. And the entire time you've got producers bankrolling the thing, and every day they scrutinize and criticize your work. And then it gets released, and its scrutinized and criticized by everyone who sees it. Filmmaking is by no means easy, and directing is the hardest job in the business.
Assh0lethrowaway ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 08:56:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's a great analogy, I wish I could show it to her without her seeing (and probably taking very personally) my critique of her ambitions. I'll definitely bear it in mind when I'm talking to her about it in future, so thank you!
The_Batmen ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 07:09:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Say her that she should make a short film to find her style. She'll see how hard it is.
Assh0lethrowaway ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 08:58:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thanks for your advice. I probably made it sound like she does less than she actually does - she's directed a few things before in high school and now at college; they're not awful by any stretch, I just wish I could motivate her to do more, find her style, what works and stuff. (Her college lets her borrow all kinds of expensive equipment I'd kill to have access to if I wanted to direct a film!)
In a way, the praise she's gotten for her work so far may have lulled her into a false sense of security, but I'll definitely be trying to encourage her to do more work, and probably end up doing some with her. Do you have any more advice for an aspiring director I could pass on?
The_Batmen ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:01:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How about just telling her this?
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:50:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Quentin Tarantino.
The_Batmen ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:06:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wrote another comment about this: He is a writer with a vision and not spme guy who wants to make a movie for the sake of making a movie.
[deleted] ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 21:11:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
His early work was a little too new wave for my tastes, but when Pulp Fiction came out in '94, I think he really came into his own, commercially and artistically. The whole movie has a clear, crisp style, and a new sheen of consummate professionalism that really gives the scenes a big boost. Tarantino's been compared to a plagiarist, but I think Quentin has a far more bitter, cynical sense of humor.
In '09, Quentin released Inglorious Basterds, his most accomplished movie. I think his undisputed masterpiece is "The Hateful Eight", a movie so well-scripted, most people probably don't listen to the character beats. But they should, because it's not just about the pleasures of conformity, and the importance of trends, it's also a personal statement about the playwright industry itself.
33thirtythree ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:46:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is an underrated comment.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:44:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Say what you will but The Room is a masterpiece.
PenIsEnhanced ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:50:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The director still makes a lot of creative decisions concerning the way it's shot. The DoP makes the shots the directors want look good through lighting, angles and framing.
Temperment ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:49:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
DP? Like as in...
CandyAppleHesperus ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:54:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Director of Photography.
33thirtythree ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:49:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you for saying this before I had to.
Imadoc91 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:32:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know nothing about the film industry, took me several re-reads after you said DP to realize you weren't talking about porn.
Jared-Fogle ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:51:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Jarmatus ยท 119 points ยท Posted at 13:39:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Music. "That ain't workin', that's the way you do it ..."
[deleted] ยท 50 points ยท Posted at 16:07:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You play the guitar on the MTV
LessLikeYou ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 18:05:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Money for nothin' and your chicks for free.
RedBlimp ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:44:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Move that refrigerator
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:31:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Beverly Hillbillies
RedBlimp ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:04:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
... Color TVs or something...
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:52:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lemme tell you, them guys ain't dumb. Maybe get a blister on your little finger; maybe get a blister on your thumb.
ElectronicFerret ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 21:49:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Dear god, yes. Playing instruments, writing music, singing, whatever.
Sorry! Some of you are REALLY BAD AT DRUMS AND HAVE NO SENSE OF RHYTHM AND RANDOMLY HITTING EVERY SINGLE DRUM AND COMPLETELY LOSING THE BEAT IS NOT HOW YOU DO A FILL!!
/angry trained musician
Jarmatus ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 00:41:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drumming is the hardest thing anyone has made look easy.
Doctah_Whoopass ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:26:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Goddamn, I have skills on bass and guitar, but at no time would I ever consider myself remotely adequate at drums. I can't even hold a steady quarter note kick, and I play bass!
Jarmatus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:07:48 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Rhythm section instruments: everyone's like "I could do that", very few actually could.
Props to you, I heart good bassists.
Asizeablecouch ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:19:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Making music is hard. Editing post production is harder. Getting people to listen is the hardest.
Q_ballin ยท 544 points ยท Posted at 17:30:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
ITT: Everything is super hard. How dare you even try.
I fold paper airplanes for a living and a lot of people think they can do it but as a professional you really see the difference.
Most people dont even line up their sheet edges let alone crease the seam. The amount of botched jobs i see on a daily basis is really pretty scary when you consider just how crowded airspace is. Eyes can be POKED OUT if a plane isnt constructed properly.
Now a days with technology making it cheaper and easier than ever amateurs are folding legal and even tabloid sized, multi-sheet aircraft without realizing that you cant just put some bullshit watermarks on your planes, make a facebook page and call yourself a professional.
[deleted] ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 23:40:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
ManWhoKilledHitler ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 04:13:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Only 145? You might as well be a drooling vegetable if you're that stupid.
I will now look down on you and whatever pitiful attempts you make to get into a career.
intensely_human ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 04:27:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lots of people think taking a shit basically consists of dropping your deuce in the nearest toilet. What they don't realize is that there are literally thousands of toilet designs, and bathroom designs, not to mention all the navigation you have to do just to find a building with a bathroom.
What kind of toilet paper are you going to use? If you're not carrying 1, 2, and 5 ply rolls in your backpack you seriously need to reconsider taking a shit.
What if you just fart and nothing comes out? What if it's the runs, and it happens when you're on an airplane? How do you manage your dick during the whole thing?
People will spend hours watching fucking Matlock and still pick up nothing about the fine art of dropping the kids off at the pool. Every time that guy is offscreen he's shitting. But nobody ever realizes this - they think he's a normal TV character with anus.
Wrong. Leave it to the professionals people - it's easier than you might think to end up without toilet paper, or sitting too long on reddit and having it crust up, or even just freaking out the small child who just walked in with his father. You can have an aneurysm or maybe have a rat crawl up your ass. Either way it ain't the cakewalk everyone seems to think it is.
Thinking about taking a shit? Think again.
TheFlyingBogey ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 23:46:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously, I feel like everyone here is just complaining about people who belittle their profession, which is fair enough but it's not like everyone does it. I think the only responses I've agreed with in this thread are the ones about pro gaming and streaming/being a YouTuber.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 03:28:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you for making this point! I feel like this thread has come down to "What shouldn't people do if they don't put any effort into learning it correctly".
FuckBigots5 ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 22:38:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
this man deserves gold yet I am poor.
Mvem ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 23:51:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well become a professional photographer and you can pay for gol...
oh wait
bubongo ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 23:48:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You're right. Everything is super hard, until you learn how to do it properly and spend countless hours practicing and perfecting. Then it's less hard but still pretty hard.
DrPineappleButts ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 01:00:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I realize this is most likely satirical, but are there real people who's sole job is papercraft. Not where they're good at it and make really cool stuff regularly. But artists who's sole job is making papercraft stuff.
galadedeus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:14:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
oh man, you made me giggle in such a cozy way. You got the perfect example
WhompWump ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:50:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Holy fucking shit reddit just got BTFO
iamsuperflush ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:23:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nah. It's more professionals venting, because people don't understand the nuances or value of their craft.
bigbigtea ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:53:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You. You are good, you.
[deleted] ยท -17 points ยท Posted at 21:58:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
jephrozen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:45:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yet somehow a home run. I guess reddit still loves irrational anger.
[deleted] ยท 42 points ยท Posted at 15:04:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
babble_on ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:41:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I hate people who watch all those stupid cooking shows and think they can hang, that my job is so easy. New Culinary grads, too. They walk in and expect to be running the joint because they took a few classes and can sometimes follow a recipe now, with help and plenty of time.
funkybutts ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:41:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Actually I'm going to argue that cooking in a restaurant is not hard unless you're a chef. A line cook is easily taught.
Source: cooked in three kitchens.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:41:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Buffalochickenparm ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:19:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Becoming an executive chef at a high end restaurant is really challenging. Knowing what flavors pair well together, being able to taste the quarter teaspoon of an ingredient in a 50 servings of sauce, getting food out to tables in a timely manner and especially plating a dish in a way that makes it beautiful.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:21:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:29:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Tankerforce ยท 41 points ยท Posted at 16:16:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Electrical work. Especially after talking to a "professional" at Home Depot
livin4donuts ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:14:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most people know enough about it to burn a house down.
CaptainHacker ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:36:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I used to work at a Home Depot. Yeah you have your 20 something year old employees who don't know what they're talking about, but a lot of the employees actually used to work in relevant trades and do actually know what they're talking about.
Of course, simply talking to one of these people does not qualify you to do electrical, plumbing or whatever else.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 10:36:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Noq64 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:01:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I used to work at Circuit City selling tv's and home theater gear. Same concept on a different scale. I was the guy who got annoyed when the product wasn't tuned right. Speakers or tv's I would always tweak with the settings. I was the guy who knew the specs and what they meant.
Spent the next few years harassing the people at best buy about their gear.
Totally out of practice now and totally lost... but loving my magic budget systems in every room.
chargercord ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:25:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fuck that. I will never fuck with electrical work or plumbing myself. Always hire a professional.
gnat_outta_hell ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:23:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Particularly electrical. Plumbing won't burn your house down and kill your toddler when she turns the tap on.
Noq64 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:02:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Plumbing is relatively easy. Make sure it doesn't leak and don't fuck with gravity.
RedBlimp ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:47:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Electric is like magic to me.
notreallysrs ยท 245 points ยท Posted at 13:23:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Give nutritional advice
SilasTheVirous ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 21:48:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nutritionist vs. Dietician
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 00:31:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
SilasTheVirous ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:29:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yea, didn't you know plants don't have chemicals in them?! Chemical-free salads must be yummy!
fellowgiraffe ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:28:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I always hate that people discredit my Step Dad because he studied and majored in nutrition. They always call him a dietician or say "it's the same thing."
MrXian ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 17:31:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But I read a bunch of sites and posts on facebook so I know all about carbs and fats and protein and veganism and carnivority.
[deleted] ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 17:14:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:42:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
See you at whole foods.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:56:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
R.I.P your paycheck.
commanderjarak ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:32:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I imagine that might be hard to cash if you ripped it.
million-dollar-loan ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:19:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
easy, if you can't spell the name of something, don't eat it /s
SuperCayce ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:45:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was about to start screaming before I saw the /s at the end.
hornpipe ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:15:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a registered dietitian. Thank you for pointing that out.
screwthat4u ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 18:04:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You need to cut calories and fat bro, here only 1500 calories a day.
Is it okay if I eat one sandwich and drink dr pepper for the rest of the day?
Yeah bro just keep it under 1500 calories, all calories are the same
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:58:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
gwh21 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 20:19:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
to be fair...1500 calories a day will make you lose weight if that is beneath your total daily expenditure.
that being said, it probably isn't the type of weight you want to lose. you will lose fat, but you will most likely take a good bit of muscle with it.
[deleted] ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 21:30:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
TheShaker ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:16:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nobody really says this though. If it's a play on IIFYM, then that's not even accurate.
Misterclean22 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:22:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh my god yes. I've been thin my whole life. I eat pretty (what i consider) healthy. But so many of my friends and relatives have eaten crap their whole lives and have just recently lost a bunch of weight. And now that they are thin they consider themselves nutrition experts and will proceed to criticize my food choices. I will not replace the mayo in my tuna with Greek yogurt. For the 10th time this week please stop suggesting it.
ludicrousattainment ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:38:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Why...why would you do this to yourself.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:50:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
KyloRenAvgMillenial ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:39:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You need to keep you metabolic fire stoked with at least 3000 calories a day divided over 16 meals.
MagicMistoffelees ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:25:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sounds great! I'm sure I'll lose 35 pounds!
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:07:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
16 meals of 3000 calories each you say? Sounds good to me!
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:59:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There's this one fat HR lady at work who is always giving me "pointers" on my food. Pot calling the kettle black lardass.
TheSmileyCactus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:36:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't claim to be an expert on nutrition, but it is pretty easy to learn the difference between good and bad nutrition to the point where you could give someone advice on what to eat. At a very high level, nutrition is very complex, but understanding what is healthy and not, and understanding common vitamin and mineral deficiencies is pretty simple.
This being said, there is a lot of misinformation in regards to nutrition, so it is important to research more when in doubt.
RoughlyCuboid ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:41:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Literally anyone can be a nutritionist, if they decide to call themselves that. It isn't a legally protected term.
stackered ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:48:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There are licensed nutritionists in hospitals and clinics across the US so I'm not sure what you are saying
tesity ยท 931 points ยท Posted at 13:27:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
YouTubers.
I know that PewDiePie's channel rakes in 6 figures + every year and many people think that it's just some guy filming himself playing video games. Although that is part of the job, it's not the whole thing. You need to have some sort of charisma, charm and humour in order to do it 'professionally'.
Maysock ยท 324 points ยท Posted at 16:53:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My mom asked this about my brother. She said "well, he likes playing games, maybe he could make money at it."
I said, "Yes, he likes playing games, and he's good at them, but does he enjoy recording it, commentating, editing, adding effect, and publishing on a tight deadline?"
Probably not. He probably could be good at it, but he's never had an interest in any of those things, so I'm not sure it would work out unless he threw himself into it 110%.
GrollTheLicker ยท 50 points ยท Posted at 19:38:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Also even if he throws himself at it 110 percent he may not make it big quickly or even at all.
They talk about this sometimes on the Cooptional Podcast and its a very interesting topic.
Maysock ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 19:40:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have no idea. He has no intent in doing it. I think my mom just wants his 8+ hours of gaming a day to be productive in some way...
Streaming as a pastime, while something I definitely watch, and sometimes do, is fucking weird when you stop and think about it.
GrollTheLicker ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:54:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's also easy to see why it has taken off. First of all it gives me access to games I dont have the time or sometimes a good enough computer to play. Secondly I get an interesting perspective on the game in the case of some streamers ( My personal fave for this is Adam Koebel. He is a tabletop game designer and when he plays stuff he tends to discuss the tropes he encounters) or a funny running commentary. Also the best streams have active communities that make it feel like your not sitting alone doing feck all. Your watching your favourite streamer get hosed at bloodbowl because his joke team based entirely on 80's action movies isnt doing great.
Maysock ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:59:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh sure, people who like doing a thing also tend to like watching other people do it well, and the connectivity of modern multiplayer makes singleplayer games feel so... lonely.
I get it completely, but that doesn't mean it's not weird. If you told someone in 1980 we'd all be wrapped up in little pocket screens, and they'd be our primary method of communication, they would've looked at you like you were weird. Likewise, if you said one of the most lucrative new forms of media was watching other people play videogames, they'd think you were nuts. And those people aren't always even good at it. I love game grumps, but Arin suuuuuuuuuuuuucks at games.
GrollTheLicker ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:02:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
oh imo the ones that are great at games aren't interesting to watch at all. Most of them focus WAAAY too much on the actual game and not presenting the game to an audience.
Bong_of_Oryx ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:59:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Any other funny streamers that aren't good at games? Those,are my preference
ilovelsdsowhat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:32:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't watch streamers but I totally get it. I imagine it's just like watching someone play basketball except you get the player's commentary.
FeiLongWins ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:04:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's a big part of it. Sometimes your channel just won't get any traction. There's no guarantee that just because you're good people will watch you.
In a similar vein, streaming is the same way. If being good and knowledgeable was all it took, then every diamond 1 League streamer would be raking in the big ones right now.
Wolfie141 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:15:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
All it really takes is showing off your tits while playing League
/s
snickers_addict ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:19:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Could you link me the episodes where they talk about it. I would really appreciate it thx.
GrollTheLicker ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:13:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Honestly i have no idea. Its been a few times amd they jave humdreds of episodes
Chief_Tallbong ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:30:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And after all that, you have to be ready to take a shit ton of emotional punishment from anonymous internet users. Who are usually pretty savage to kids who are more successful than they were at that age.
Fancy-Bear1776 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:21:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not to mention the fact a lot of your friends are gonna harass you to "feature" them on your videos and demand a (hefty) share of the profits from that video just because they said a couple lines, of course not helping with the editing, publishing, special effects, etc.
wittlewadio ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 20:00:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Those aren't friends.
hewhoreddits6 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:16:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Isn't it very easy to produce the videos for gaming especially? One of the reasons why gaming is so popular on Youtube is that uploaders can put out tons of content since there is no need to edit really. Now the content itself is very difficult, especially trying to do it under pressure on a deadline.
FUTURE10S ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:30:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's far easier, but there's a huge difference in effort between a bad video and a good video. Some videos can be edited very quickly, just throw the recorded voiceover and you're done (like Northernlion), and some can take a while to edit like... like Uncle Dane (who has editing in his videos) or RoosterTeeth's LetsPlay (since they have to work with 6 cameras and 6 people all talking at once, you have to mix that somehow).
hewhoreddits6 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:43:56 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The only one I know on that list is Roosterteeth, but I think I understand the jist of your point. I was referring to the videos of just recording voiceovers or recording them play the game, like Pewdiepie. Game Theory has a great video about it where MatPat talks about how one reason gamers have taken over the market in the last few years is that they can easily pump out content, since the video is usually just an hour of them playing the game. As you venture out of single player stuff, it will definitely get harder though.
nandhuco ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:35:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Don't forget advertising the videos. "I will just be a cool guy here, people will come to me" lol no, you are one among thousands
NakedAndBehindYou ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:32:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you go the Twitch streaming route then you don't need to do any editing.
That being said, most streamers have to stream for a long time before they make any money, if at all.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:44:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
Maysock ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:55:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Some do. Everyone's favorite punchingbag pewdiepie is excellent about consistently putting out content and it shows in his viewership and $$$.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:22:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[removed]
Maysock ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:27:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
He has 41,000,000 subscribers, and over 11 BILLION views on his channel (the most of all time for a single channel). A week old video on his channel hits 2.5 million views easily, if not more, and he does about 1 a day... He's the 27th ranked channel on socialblade, and if nothing, his channel has been consistent in gaining 3-5 million views per video, which is super impressive. If you want to compare his daily views to another big youtuber, he's effectively 5x as popular in terms of raw views per day as Jenna Marbles.
Sure, his viewership has dropped a bit over the past few months, but the record high levels (450m views a month) was only sustained by that south park episode, then he returned back to his average he's been sitting on since July 2013, a steady 200-300m views per month. He's also consistently gaining subs, so he can't be doing too poorly. As youtube diversifies and twitch continues to take over viewer hours, I think you'll see a lot of youtubers gain subs while losing overall views, because people just gain more and more options by the day.
Pewdiepie may have reduced viewership, but so do many, many gaming channels overall and he's clearly not suffering for it.
source
[deleted] ยท 173 points ยท Posted at 15:53:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
tesity ยท 66 points ยท Posted at 15:59:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The internet is so easily accessible now that everyone thinks they have a shot at it. Sadly, it's not that easy!
gallantBlackKnight ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 18:05:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just like what the Congressional Chaplain said when he spoke at my school: "The wonderful thing about Congress is that anybody can be a Congressman, but the bad part is that anyone can be a Congressman."
I think this applies to the Internet, particularly YouTube.
Jimpieish ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:03:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everybody does have a shot at it, though. Some people just miss.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:52:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Jimpieish ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:59:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep, persistence is the number one key to pretty much all 'dreams'
FrankenBerryGxM ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:30:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The internet makes it so everyone does have a shot, most people think you can just stream and make money, but you have to be one of the best at the games you play for it to be easy.
I bet most people, if dedicated, spending 40+ hours a week, learning all that goes into, study's trends, at some point the entertainment industry is all a mathematical formula
The problem is, most people think it's a way lucky people get out of having a real job
_FranklY ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:32:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I record and upload to YouTube, and I get a few views, but it's mostly just so I can show friends weird crap, I'd say I probably upload 5% of what I capture, which is maybe 10% of what I play...
[deleted] ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 17:15:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
_FranklY ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:19:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not even mad
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:40:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hey does anyone know what /u/deityblade channel name is?
FUTURE10S ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:31:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You think you have it bad? Trust me, when I make a video for https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCy1VzIhvM5Swexh4aq_0scw it's a pain when advertising to have to go and write it out by hand and https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCy1VzIhvM5Swexh4aq_0scw is not an easy name to remember but long story short, know how to fucking advertise your content.
waxattacks ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 21:53:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Please check out my channel where everything is recorded at 15 fps with Bandicam for an unedited 25 minutes of me running around in creative mode breaking stuff and killing pigs!"
dovahart ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:29:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I find it better that they try to be youtubers at such a young age, where no one depends on them and they can figure just how difficult being successful at anything really is. If they find the challenge interesting, they might just try and succeed, whether it be in youtube or something else. If not, at least they get what real talent and effort looks like (from their real youtuber peers)
teddybearortittybar ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 01:19:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My son is seven and really enjoys watching the let's play videos for Minecraft, Terreria and Skylanders. A very interesting side effect from this is that he can not stop talking at all while he is playing. Even points of play with no significance will still have him commentating. I don't think he knows why he does it really but it is so obvious to me as a father. My brothers would have fought me to play a game all day long when we were younger. Today keeps are happy just watching people play. I'm getting old fast.
Im_a_wet_towel ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:05:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
To be fair, that's how you get good at it. I think that it's awesome that there are kids that are under ten doing let's plays. A couple of them will be pros someday.
AAfaps ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:35:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
if you look at alot of big youtubers first few videos youll relize its not a natural born talent.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:18:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My friends give me shif when I don't watch their videos. "Mate I couldn't give a flying monkey about your gta v funtage"
fallenKlNG ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:15:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Good lord this is what high school's like now?
FUTURE10S ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:32:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I finished high school 3 years ago, if I walked around in it and I got a business card for a YT channel, I'd laugh and keep it for the absurdity.
deedlede2222 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:02:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Twitch is way easier now anyway. You just have to either be really entertaining or a moderately attractive woman. Or both!
TheDogstarLP ยท 393 points ยท Posted at 14:45:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
PewDiePie also had the fact that he moved, meaning local recommendations got spread across two countries (when he moved to Italy from Sweden) which is the main theory as to why he got so popular, the rest was snowball effect. He effectively gamed the system, although inadvertently. He's very good at what he does and reads his audience well.
Exceon ยท 53 points ยท Posted at 18:44:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Except he has stated himself that he was never on the front page of Italy's YouTube. "Just football clips all the time", he said.
Sieg_1 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 01:33:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Very few people undestand english in Italy, and because of that pewdiepie's target is already taken by his italian clone, favij. Basically he's the same as pewdipie, but speaks italian. I didn't even know that pewdipie came to Italy.
vultureslayer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:22:05 on January 27, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
He moved to live with his girlfriend.
wakka54 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:57:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I highly doubt this. If this was true, it would just be a matter of buying a $2/month VPN in another country and logging into YouTube through it to boost your audience, and everybody would be doing it.
TheDogstarLP ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 18:59:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You change your payment details officially etc so you're verified in a new country (due to taxes). VPN doesn't count.
EsQuiteMexican ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 23:11:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Also, after Pewds Youtube patched it so it can't be exploited like that again.
Adamsoski ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:53:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think I saw something, way way back, which disproved that. I can't remember what it was out where I saw it though, so I don't have any proof.
CptQ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:58:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What does moving change considering its a gaming channel? I dont know this guy besides that hes playing games. Making italian vids would be more effective or not?
sarcasticIntrovert ยท -9 points ยท Posted at 15:28:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
This video explains the PewDiePie scenario pretty well (and the channel this video is from is also really, really awesome)
EDIT: Why all the downvotes? :( I'm sure the video isn't 100% factually accurate, but I didn't think it was unrelated or unhelpful to the discussion.
unit0ne ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 19:46:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I honestly don't buy this. I don't think Pewds is popular in Italy, and Sweden has what 10 million people? Still doesn't explain why he's popular outside the UK.
Beyond the fact that Mat has a terrible track record.
Keaner81 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:02:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
He also is a pretty good editor believe it or not.
nothing_in_my_mind ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 22:31:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I don't think the multinationality explains it, there are tons of European channels making videos in English that aren't 1/10000 as popular as Pewdiepie.
It's just charisma. Why are some people more likable and popular than others? Why can some people rally entire nations behind them and others have trouble making a single friend? It's charisma and we don't really understand it.
Gioware ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 00:13:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I doubt it, people tend to choose something without any reason, it just snowball effect, remember flappy bird app, it does not had any charisma, it just spread.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:49:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lol. I wouldn't expect an app to have charisma
salonethree ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 16:22:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
nice try mat.
legalbeagle5 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:32:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I always toy with this idea, but then i realize, I am a 36 yr old lawyer and have virtually no charisma and only my GF thinks I am funny (or maybe those are pitty laughs... shit). But I do so love gaming and wish I could make money doing it. WTB charisma.
GrollTheLicker ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:41:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Give it a go in your free time. Maybe make up for your percieved lack of charisma and humour by being the no nonsense guy that people come to for solid info?
Quite frankly people making jokes and being silly are a dime a dozen. I'd like a few more channels that discuss gaming in a more serious tone and give me info I can trust.
Sector_Corrupt ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:27:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm generally pretty charming and well liked. I generally do pretty well bouncing around a social event chatting with people. But I'm not charming on a "Multiple videos a week" kind of schedule. Beyond natural charisma these kinds of people are actively manufacturing this stuff and that takes a herculean effort.
IrrelevantLeprechaun ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:19:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Things suddenly getting popular actually happens frequently on the Internet. Things go viral every day.
The thing with YouTube is you have to work out the business aspect underneath to keep it consistent. You need to get a proper workspace or studio so you're not just filming on your bed. You need a proper sound designer to get good quality audio. A proper camera instead of your laptops webcam. Someone to edit your stuff together. A designer to make your video graphics and intros.
Like game grumps. Their channel now involves a sizeable group of people, all who need to get paid. Their videos draw lots of viewers but Arin himself says the takeaway after all the expenses are paid is not nearly as huge as people think.
Imadoc91 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:29:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Indeed, video production is very time consuming. I have some friends who do the youtube thing, but generally don't make enough off of it to not quit their day job, and I would say that every 30 minutes worth of video you upload is 4 hours of work if you know what you are doing, and aren't editing it too heavily. I have one video on my youtube channel with over 20k views, and when I got that I was super excited and decided to try making more, and failed miserably at it.
Stastawars ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 16:30:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have nothing against Youtubing for a loving but not all YouTubers have "talent". Some people play a game for an hour and edit for a few hours which isn't a very complex task if you only cut out the boring parts and add some music or pictures.
Also a lot of content is very passive and is based around reacting to a thing. Challenge video's, reaction videos, gaming video's.
Then again alot of channels do massive research, planning, writing and creativity to make.
Magmatron ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:42:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For league fans see professor milk's videos for proof that some do require true skill
BattlingMink28 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:55:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That and you actually have to get people to like your content and keep making content they will like so they keep coming back.
Anthony_Padildo ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:18:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Aside from that, it also costs a lot of time time to make.
elitegenoside ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:35:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Almost four years of it, and the most subs I've ever had is 77. Lots of hard work, creativity, and a bunch of luck.
iDooperman ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:18:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Definitely this. Being entertaining for an audience, being able to find a target demographic, and being able to captivate them to continue to watch your content sounds very difficult. There are definitely more deserving Youtubers than others but as a whole, it sounds like a very risky profession, especially in terms of the internet where one day you can have the most popular content to people completely forgetting about you.
gordymills ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:55:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not to mention the marketing and branding. This includes having a heavy presence on social media. That almost takes more time and effort than making the actual videos.
pisshead_ ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 14:19:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There are loads of channels that are pretty much the same, a few are popular based on a snowball effect, people watch it because everyone else is watching. Anyone could be a youtuber if they got lucky, it's like being a reality TV star.
leaflard ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:25:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You still need charm. It takes luck to be noticed.
[deleted] ยท 84 points ยท Posted at 15:19:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The vast majority of youtubers can barely talk in front of a camera, the ones who are popular and make a living off of what they do are nothing like the rest.
You're just being dismissive because you don't like what they do, hence the comparison to reality TV.
improperlycited ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:35:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think the point he is making is that the skill to be successful is necessary but is not at all sufficient. The most talented person in the world isn't going to be successful in YouTube of they don't get a bunch of lucky breaks along the way.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 16:44:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think that's the point being made at all. I think the point being made is that Youtubers have no skill. The contempt is obvious.
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:11:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:22:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not addressing whether that is true or not. I'm rejecting the idea that that is what was meant.
And OBVIOUSLY luck is required to be successful. That is obvious to anyone who has ever tried to do anything with their lives.
improperlycited ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:53:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, rereading it, your probably right. But in the context of the post, I think that people over-emphasize the talent requirement and underemphasize the luck. But I think that's true of almost everyone who is wildly successful.
KeeperDe ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:05:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think that counts as much for youtube though. Sure luck might help you tremendously, but if you have no skill, no one will even watch you in the first place.
If you have a lot of skill all you need is perseverence. And probably a lot of it. Luck can definitely help in this stadium, but if you are entertaining and skilled, you will make it (if you put up videos regulary)
hewhoreddits6 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:25:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Regardless, there is still an element of luck in Youtube. Many channels now started do what they do now because they made videos in their spare time and didn't expect to get such traction. If you look hard enough, there are still many others who make videos for fun as well whos subscriber numbers never make it out of triple digits.
An example of true luck is Laina, AKA Overly attached girlfriend. She made a music video to enter into a contest to meet Justin Bieber, and then became a meme. From there she made a few more videos and decided to become a regular uploader, but once her channel took off she did it full time. It is a LOT of work once you make it into a career, but most people get to that point with a little luck.
hewhoreddits6 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:20:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's getting harder and harder to make money doing Youtube, which is why so many people are turning to sponsorships and Patreon now. The REALLY successful people though, are those who use their money in more of a business sense, like Phillip DeFranco. He's spoken before on how very few make bank, and those that do rely on outside sources besides just Youtube.
dirtyhappythoughts ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:02:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Except for the part where a reality TV star some has a mildly interesting life and a cunning manager and producers and audio / video guys, whereas a YT star has to do a lot of these tasks himself AND still present all the content. Sure big channels don't do it all alone, but that's how they started out and they still do more than those reality stars.
Shuhandler ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 13:40:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
PewDiePie does not have humour.
tesity ยท 75 points ยท Posted at 13:57:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not a big fan of PewDiePie either but he is able to deliver what his target demographic wants. I think that's also part of the job.
SealsMelt ยท 33 points ยท Posted at 14:34:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
From what I understand PewDiePie is very different from his YouTube persona in real life, but he knows that his YouTube persona makes him the big bucks, so that's what he acts like on camera.
TheDogstarLP ยท 27 points ยท Posted at 14:44:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, he has done a lot for charity. I really really dislike his videos but to be honest he seems like a really good guy.
Potato_Soup_ ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:51:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah I remember he donated over a million dollars to charity a while back. A few times I think
masonr08 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:39:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
From what I've heard, he's a actually a really down to earth guy and doesn't really flip out and cuss like he does in his videos. In a way, he's kinda like the Taylor Swift of the YouTube gaming community: extremely popular because of charm and hard work but holds themselves up through playing demographics and and knowing how to get their stuff out there. Not everyone's going to like them, but most recognize what they do and are impressed by their ways and means.
All-in-all, I used to watch PDP, but now it's not my cup of tea anymore. Still respect him for what he's done though.
Jabonex ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:45:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Like every known youtuber, i guess, you won't act like a child infront of a cops or in public.
[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 15:17:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Edgemaster.
falconfetus8 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:01:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And luck. Don't forget luck.
kaiju-taxi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:17:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The thing is, there are too many gaming channels. DO SOMETHING ELSE FOR A CHANGE.
videogamescience ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:32:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I swear we're going through the digital age's equivalent of a gold rush. There's valuable data just lying about everywhere and everyone wants to cash in on it.
ZombieJack ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:29:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Plus he spends insane amounts of time recording and editing. Its a lot more than just playing. A lot of the time he will have pre recorded footage and add in his screaming later. Not so easy to just crank that shit out.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:45:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You also have to be able to talk and play at the same time constantly. I've seen many wannabe LPers who will go half a video without taking because they're focusing on the game, or running in circles because they're too busy talking to play.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:02:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
you need to have a shit ton of charisma charm and/or humor because you're competing with a million billion other people who are doing the same thing because everyone and their dog wants to do it
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:04:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I literally just uploaded videos of me feeding a squirrel. A week later I have almost about 150k channel views in 4 videos. Although I haven't been able to upload in a while because he hasn't been around due to the cold :(
VacantSun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:48:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Also, you have to know what you are doing on the editing side. Say what you will about PewDiePie, but he consistently puts out at least one five minute video. Sure, it isn't always the most sophisticated editing sometimes, but the time and effort you have to put in to get out that much content is admirable on its own.
dem0nhunter ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:57:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The thing is that many of those YouTube stars started very small and grew over time in size and skill. So the now established ones already have a certain quality. Newcomers have to be on point even at entry level to be competitive. Video editing is key for YouTube imo since people want to have a dense viewing experience.
Twitch on the other hand has varying stream quality since everything is live especially on mid tier level. Consistency and charisma trumps production level there imo.
ingridelena ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:03:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah the personality part is def true. And I tried launching my own channel on my own -- it was expensive and time consuming, like $80 for each video and then I edited it myself and did some really high tech stuff and it would take hours just to finish one. Im still sad I let the project go and want to try again some day but id have to have a ton of time on my hands.
Dan_Of_Time ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:16:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Also sometimes a decent sense of cinematography. You gotta make sure the audience gets a good view of what's going on.
FrankenBerryGxM ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:26:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Once you get the viewers, it's pretty easy to maintain (still 40+ hour work week)
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:47:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
6 figures? Did youtube change their policies? I remember trying to figure it out for some top tier League players a few years ago and was coming up with numbers like 60k a year. Is PewDiePie like insanely more popular?
doubleobutters ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:29:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most of the popular youtubers are also aimed towards children. look at the list of top 20 earners on YouTube. The vast majority are all gaming oriented with a couple of exceptions. These kids think they're hilarious. I know because my daughter fucking loves this crap. http://www.businessinsider.com/top-20-most-popular-youtube-stars-2014-11?op=1
CylonGlitch ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:33:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My son started his own Youtube channel, he puts hundreds of hours into it (He's 13). He has about 70 videos up. He is lucky to get 10 views on one of his videos. He knows it's a long haul thing, and requires a ton of work and that he likely isn't going to make anything out of it but for now he just enjoys it.
For those who want to check it out; he'd love some extra views.
Swiftly_Fat on Youtube
PartyPorpoise ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:52:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not to mention that a ton of time goes into production. In addition to playing the game or watching the movie or whatever you're doing, there's a lot of video editing involved.
MichaelAveryMusic ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:32:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
People forget to mention that he has a ridiculous work ethic. Between getting gameplay, editing, rendering, and uploading it takes upwards of 2-3 hours. Now do that 3 times per day 7 days a week.
TickTick_Tick ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:55:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Also, fans are incredibly demanding of Youtubers. I like watching them and I'm involved in some fandoms, and the way some people scrutinize their every move is harsh. I wouldn't be able to deal with it.
There's also not the disconnect that happens with celebrities. You are expected to connect with your fans, or they lose interest fast. This means constantly interacting, getting involved with whatever the latest social media is, trying to balance having a life and being successful on Youtube.
jackaboo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:17:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Personally I don't like Pewdiepie's channel but I have huge respect for the guy. He really knows his audience and has to meet insane deadlines.
edwartica ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:38:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I work in public access and you would not believe the people who think they're the next Internet sensation. Video work is hard, and yoh need more than an iphone.
LightinDark132 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:17:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Youtuber here. Sitting at about 130k subs? Freaking horrible trying to get anywhere. Mostly getting by on luck and the few skills and talents I do have.
tesity ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:22:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, what's your YouTube channel? I'd love to check it out! :)
LightinDark132 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:42:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Tyken132, feel free to ask me stuff about being a youtuber
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 14:31:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:42:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You dishonor the babushka, you flithy capitalist badger.
Funkays ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:44:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You also need to manipulate YouTube algorithm. While he didn't intentionally do it, PDP managed to and as a result has #1 sub count I believe.
Dent18 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:46:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I hate the fact that this is even a thing now
The whole thing has just gotten so overproduced and full of itself.
I don't care about your fucking channel, I just want to see cool clips of shit
RICH_PENZOIL ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 22:17:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know you got upvoted for this, and I'll get downvoted for disagreeing with you, but here goes; It's super easy to be a professional youtuber, find a niche, upload a heap of videos, get a few subscribers, find what they want, give that to them. On a pewdiepie scale though, yeah, very hard, but it's not that hard to make money on youtube.
Benramin567 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:11:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
More like 7 figures. Last year he made 27 000 000 swedish kroner, 1 USD is around 8 SEK.
nevergotgold ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:18:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
More like 7 figures, but yeah it isn't easy
screwthat4u ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 18:07:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Professional youtubers are one step above beggars in my book, always complaining about how someone stole their video and made a hefty $120
Go to school kids
Mustardly ยท 105 points ยท Posted at 12:56:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sing. Especially if X Factor / Pop Idol is anything to go by.
[deleted] ยท 25 points ยท Posted at 16:24:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Good lord yes. I've been having singing lessons since I was 14 (now 36). I am classically trained and sing a lot of opera. I have done some semi-professional stage work but now I really only do it for the love of it. I get really annoyed with these sorts of "talent" shows when they have on singers like Paul Potts, because that is not a good representation of either Nessun Dorma or what it is to sing opera. Listen to someone like that, or someone like Russell Watson, and then listen to Placido Domingo. There is absolutely no comparison.
cputnik ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:40:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
to be fair, Paul had professional training and had auditioned for none other than Pavarotti (the audition didnt go well as he was too nervous)
the movie about him is actually quote watchable
"Potts first sang opera in the minor roles of the Prince of Persia and the Herald in Puccini's Turandot for Bath Opera, an amateur company, in 1999. He then performed leading roles on four occasions: Don Basilio in Mozart's Marriage of Figaro in 2000; Don Carlos in Verdi's Don Carlos in 2001; Don Ottavio in Mozart's Don Giovanni in 2003; and Radames in Verdi's Aida in 2003.[5][9][10] He also performed the role of the Chevalier des Grieux in Puccini's Manon Lescaut for the Southgate Opera Company in London, an amateur company, in May 2003. Additionally, he sang with a small ensemble from the Royal Philharmonic in front of an audience of 15,000 and toured northern Italy as a soloist as part of his music classes there.[9]"
this was all before his appearance on BGT
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:04:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
cputnik ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:30:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
fair enough, and i must agree with your general point
like anything in this world, there are exceptions and Paul Potts genuinely seems to be one :)
markevens ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:48:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You always sound better in your head, especially when you are singing along to a song and have the actual song to correct your tone by.
As soon as you go a capella it all falls apart.
Schuano ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 21:31:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair, those shows are designed to showcase the best and the worst.
The 10,000 hopefuls do not all get to see the celebrity judges.
Instead, they go through a few intake rounds.
The very, very good... They get to go in front of the judges.
The ones with good stories or an interesting gimmick... They get to go in front of the judges.
The terrible and delusional ones.... They get to go in front of the judges.
The vast, vast majority of people who are bad, okay, pretty good... they never get on television.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:00:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm so tired of people going to college so they can get a career in singing, yet they tell me I need to go to college and act like I'm gonna be a loser for not going.
kaiju-taxi ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:22:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'll bet it's hard. And seriously, kudos to those people out on tours and concerts on a regular basis, singing the whole night. After I sing a couple songs normally, my voice gives out, then I get bored of whatever I'm singing.
tacojohn48 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:02:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But I'm so good they asked me to sing solo at church, so low they couldn't hear me. Then they decided I should sing tenor, ten or more miles away.
bmoviescreamqueen ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:07:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Been singing since I was in grade school. So many people come into choir or voice lessons thinking you don't need to know any theory or technique. Some people get lucky. The rest of us have to work hhard to sound good.
sun_worth ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:10:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But George Clinton said I sounded good!
mastersword83 ยท 1648 points ยท Posted at 12:54:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
eSports. People argue that it's just playing video games, but top tier teams live together and spend hours practicing, almost like a physical sports team minus the attractiveness.
[deleted] ยท 52 points ยท Posted at 17:29:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Likewise, video game entertainment (such as Let's Plays). Most people think it's just playing video games and cracking jokes, but suddenly you're sitting the talking to yourself while being shitty at a game hundreds of other people are steaming atm. If you're not naturally funny or incredible at the gamd, no one's going to watch you
Stewbodies ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:07:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My cousin is ~10 and watches a lot of Let's Plays (Great) and makes his own Let's Plays (Not great). I spent a few days staying with him and ended up watching a lot of videos of Minecraft Story Mode with him. That was actually a lot of fun, and I enjoyed the people in them. Then he decided to show me the story from the beginning. Sounds good to me, since I've enjoyed the later episodes and wanted to get a better grasp on what was happening. So he starts up the video for the youtuber we had been watching for a while, and then suddenly decides I should watch his instead. I love that kid but not his youtube videos. Every few lines of dialogue I would miss because of him shouting something spoiling a later part of the story. It doesn't help that his voice is pretty shrill.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 19:03:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You sure about that? It's been a while since I saw a "let's player" who was doing anything more than making loud obnoxious noises every time he died. I don't think any of them are funny.
sg587565 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:52:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Millions of other people do though and having such a wide appeal is not possible without a lot of hard work. People make fun of pewdipie and all but the thing is he still worked hard as shit to get to the 30mil or so subs he has, its not all just loud screams. If it was then anyone could become a millionaire on youtube.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:32:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But aren't the people who think they're funny 12? I'm not trying to be rude just isn't that their main demographic? They're only funny because they're "omgz random" and screaming and such.
sg587565 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 20:41:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
dont think its as low as 12, maybe 15-18 (still quite young i admit).
Regardless, making content for any age group, consistently, that is well liked (by most people) is something that should be respected.
Its not as simple as being loud and crazy, many ppl try that on youtube but only a few have managed to succeed because all the others lack the "charisma"(subjective, i know) and/or the hard work needed to put up the content.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:25:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I mean, if it's not your thing, you're not going to enjoy it either. I may not enjoy, say, stand up comedy, but that doesn't mean absolutely every stand up comedian is awful. I just may not enjoy it, and that's okay.
If you're asking for recommendations, Achievement Hunter is pretty funny. It's a group of around six guys, usually, who play just a massive variety of games. Most of them have been working together for years, if not decades, so they're really close knit and bounce off of each other well.
techniforus ยท 936 points ยท Posted at 14:54:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To add to this, it's harder than even most gamers realize.
I was almost pro back in CS 1.3-1.6. In any normal server I would utterly imbalance the teams by joining. I played mostly with other almost pro clans and could hold my own as consistently one of the top players there. Once I got into the invite only leagues I would just get crushed. I mean I put up a fight but even with a fair amount of natural skill and thousands of hours of practice I just wasn't at their level. I was in the top 1% and it wasn't even close to enough to compete.
Drunkasarous ยท 469 points ยท Posted at 16:59:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I remember watching a video for some reason about Boxer (the starcraft player) and it was saying at his level he needs to play a minimum of 10 hours a day just to keep consistent at the top level.
Professional gaming is much much much more of a chore than most people realize.
[deleted] ยท 281 points ยท Posted at 18:49:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think people think it's easy... I think they think it's dumb.
Drunkasarous ยท 34 points ยท Posted at 22:03:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
no form of entertainment comes without criticism
hungry4pie ยท -20 points ยท Posted at 23:55:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Except watching other people play isn't entertaining, at least not to me. I really cant fathom why it's even a thing to have tournaments for LoL and DOTA2 etc where people just go and watch.
Optionions ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 00:46:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I couldn't care less about watching some men kick a ball around, but I don't go around telling everyone who does that it's stupid.
pausitn ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 00:02:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Some people don't like football/basketball/whatever and can't understand why people pay to watch those. Same thing but from the other perspective
voguexx ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 05:46:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I can't fathom people watching other people run around a track, kick a ball, or swim in a pool.
I'd rather go to a dance competition.
I_AM_VERY_SMRT ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:03:39 on January 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not a fan of it either, but I completely understand why there are fans of the game that want to witness it being played at the highest level.
I watch PGA tour golf. I love it and would understand how a lot of people might find it boring (especially if you don't play).
People are seeking the best of their activity of interest. Simple as that.
zergling212 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:02:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Same reason why people are watching anything being performed? Not that hard to fathom.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:18:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Heh
PRiles ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:19:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I would argue that most people think dumb, but also couldn't care less about it anyways.
TheFlyingBogey ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 23:32:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
This really makes my blood boil... I mean, kicking around a piece of inflated leather or throwing sharp objects at a board isn't? Just because there isn't as much physical activity as the average sport, doesn't mean it's any less impressive. The attention and state of mind required to be professional in the gaming industry is at the very least equal to
if not occasionally much higher than"normal" popular sports.Edit: Jeeeesus the string of downvotes in this thread are really unnecessary, if you don't like opinions or facts then y'all are on the wrong website.
hungry4pie ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 00:00:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If that makes your blood boil, then you really need to go outside more. Pro gaming is pretty much in the same category as chess, except with more colours, faster pace and more dexamphetamine.
zergling212 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 00:07:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You are pretty out of touch and making assumptions about topics you know nothing about. Should just stop while you are ahead.
TheFlyingBogey ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 00:14:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I get out quite a lot actually, I have a handful of outdoor hobbies I partake in whenever I can (weather permitting of course) and travel between my own home and that of my SO's twice a week, doing around 80 miles over a couple days between cycling and a few buses.
In fact I have such little time inside the comfort of my own house with my PC to game on that it just makes me appreciate pro gaming that much more. I can have anywhere between 1-4 hours to spare on any given day on one game to progress- whether that's farming and raiding on GW2 or doing ranked on CSGO or LoL -that I find it insane the amount of time and effort that go into these things.
At the risk of sounding hypocritical, I hardly think it's on the same level as chess either- sure that requires strategic planning and a very specific state of mind, but the main difference here is that eSports is a very "watchable" media. For example, watching a top-down view of, say, football whereby the players kick the ball around and "make plays" with planning and tactics is comparable to that of a caster panning the camera over a LoL or DotA game as someone mid makes an exchange or trade, while bot gets ganked and top takes this opportunity of missing jungles to move in for a kill. Or perhaps seeing a Fnatic player 1v4 clutch a game on Cobblestone with nothing but a pistol, some planning and very fast reaction times.
Sports ultimately boils down to two things: discipline/training (we'll settle with a broad category of skill and talent for arguments sake), and entertainment value as a media.
Edit: a word
hungry4pie ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 03:37:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think I'm more bewildered by the entertainment value of such activities (sports or gaming alike) from a spectator perspective, I prefer actively participating -- even if I'm terrible at whatever it is. Though I have just started playing Rainbow Six Siege, which is an absolute cluster fuck without proper teamwork and practice, so I can sort of understand the spectator value there.
TheFlyingBogey ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:24:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I definitely understand this to some degree, especially when I first started playing more competitive games. I always just thought "why not just play the damn game?", that was until I saw ESL and LCS games.
Still, I don't watch them religiously, in fact I prefer to watch YouTubers occasionally if I do feel like watching something- there's something entertaining about watching someone who doesn't suck as much as I do!
On another note; how is Siege? My friends have been telling me to get it since release but I'm so invested in Guild Wars right now that it's hard to find the time and therefore justify buying a new game.
hungry4pie ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:14:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've only been playing the tutorial single player challenges, I'm a little wary of playing multiplayer on account of not having a headset. But if your friends are bugging you to get on it, then you definitely get in on it, it'd definitely be a blast with friends.
TheFlyingBogey ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:39:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think I might have to swipe one next time it goes on sale then, I need a break from CSGO ._.
Thrgd456 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 01:26:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's dumb
ifeelabityes ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:03:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's all about that White-Ra!
DoWhile ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:18:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
speshul tictacs
Drunkasarous ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:22:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
MAKE BASE AND THEN DEFENSE IT
[deleted] ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 18:27:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like there isn't currently enough money in it for someone to dedicate that amount of time to it.
[deleted] ยท 24 points ยท Posted at 19:11:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
iBleeedorange ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:37:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There needs to be money for the loses too.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:50:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
iBleeedorange ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:53:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The international is not the normal type of tournament, and it's just for Dota 2.
cheesymmm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:44:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
you still have to be insanely good to even be able to participate in the international though. It's unachievable for the vast majority of people.
Baublehead ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:52:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Riot Games (League of Legends) pays their professional players (at least in the LCS) 12.5k per split and there are 2 splits a year. Teams can pay their players more and many do.
hewhoreddits6 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:57:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes there is money, and a lot of kids are making bank on it now, but what happens when they lose their edge and start losing a lot? Or if the scene for the game ends up dying? Pro scenes for most games are cyclical, and many times they die out. Pro players like Doublelift (League of Legends) have said that there are no transferable skills once you get done pro gaming. It's not like traditional sports where you can go coach a high school team or be an analyst or something, since all your knowledge will be of a game that is no longer relevant. Heck yeah it's exciting to watch, but I'm interested to see what happens to some of these guys who spend most of their waking hours playing a videogame, and then that scene dying out. I mean I could look at examples historically, but only in the last few years has esports reached it's status as maybe being legit.
holybad ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:00:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
its not so much the money as it is a passion. also you get a huge amount of satisfaction in being able to say Im in the top.000001% of starcraft players. fuck i get a huge amount of satisfaction in saying im in the top 3% But im about 2.99% short of making any money off that skill.
edit: worth noting that the difference in skill from the players you see in premier tournaments and players like me is like way bigger than what 2.99% suggests.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:11:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That makes sense
guitargamel ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 19:01:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And, last I checked, there aren't a lot of eAthletes (ugh, that just makes me feel wrong typing) who can play past their mid 20s due to slower reaction times resulting in their mechanics in game being just a little too slow. If they're good enough, they can transition to coaching roles, but even the most brutal sports don't force their players into retirement that early.
LoverOfAsians ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 21:42:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's not true. There are a lot of older players older than 25 (Fear, Neo, Taz, f0rest). I think the reason pro gamers retire early is because of burnout, not "slower reaction times". When they're playing the game 10 hours every day for several years, they probably want to do something else instead.
hewhoreddits6 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 05:59:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What I'm curious of is what they do after the game though. Since a lot of times the scene for a game will die out, what do these guys do since in the time that they've played games there are like no transferable skills? Go back to school? Find work?
ViolentThespian ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:40:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is there another viable term for describing professional gamers? eAthletes does seem like they're trying to rip on the gamers themselves, which I find unfair. Maybe something that sets them apart from the conventional vocabulary?
guitargamel ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:19:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I guess referring to them as "Pro Gamers" is probably the closest we can get, but I don't feel like it does a good enough job of distinguishing them from my buddy Dan who's totally pro at dragonball xenoverse.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:23:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Perhaps it's the result of the job being essentially sedentary.
Optionions ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:50:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is pretty much the case for normal sports too though. Past their mid to late twenties very few people can still compete at the top level.
D8-42 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:17:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yup, Joe Rogan fairly recently had a pro CS player on the show, he mentioned that playing (training) can easily be 8 hours a day if not more.
jgodin03 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:58:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nah... Just do a zergling rush!
/s
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:17:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Drunkasarous ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:58:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
depends how much cash money you make
streaming + prize winnings can be a large motivator
chance_the_ruthless ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:32:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
yeah. i played at a low competitive level in cs:go and if i didn't play for a 2 days or so i'd play a lot worse lol
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:21:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think this sentence is what sums up professional gaming for me. If I had 10 hours/day to play, I could get pretty damn good at it.
DaedeM ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:09:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But that's the same with sports as well. If you had 10 hrs a day to practice you could get very good.
Chief_Tallbong ยท 34 points ยท Posted at 18:27:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I watch a lot of Smash Bros Melee tournaments, and it's insane how the "6 gods" are still so insanely out of everyone else's reach. Sure they're toppled sometimes but they're so consistently better than everyone else. Even people right outside of that top six usually don't stand a chance. They've taken it on as a full time job, and can afford to with their sponsorships.
DeViliShChild ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:50:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Isn't it only 5?
I only remember mew2king, Armada, Mango and a slew of older players like Ken
RaRaRaV1 ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 23:54:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Leffen paved his way in to make top 6 a year and a halfish ago. Armada, Mango, PPMD, Hbox, M2K, and now Leffen.
Chief_Tallbong ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:16:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You're missing PPMD, Hungrybox, and Leffen (who many people refuse to count).
[deleted] ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 19:18:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Man I feel you on this.. Used to spend hours everyday playing Starcraft.. Started meeting the same guys at the higher end of the ladder.. Started a "semi pro" team. Or at least that's what we called it... I remember playing against a pro and got utterly shit stomped. I put down my mouse and keyboard, then started applying for jobs.
hewhoreddits6 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:03:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Think of how much you played back then. Now think about how much the people who crushed you must play. Finally, think about how the Koreans play. Starcraft was infamous for how much better the Koreans were, it must be crazy how much time and effort they put into a game that only lasted a few years before dying out.
TheBeginningEnd ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:42:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Didn't you need the mouse and keyboard to search for jobs and submit the applications?
MixMasterBone ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:22:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I work with a guy who used to be a pro CS: Source player. Hearing him talk about it is ridiculous, like he attended training meetings with other pro players to discuss and refine video game tactics. I love video games, but there is no way that I have the skills or time it takes to become as good as pros are. Plus, you're essentially turning something you love into a chore and that has to suck.
3dots ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:55:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I average at 15 RWS and get smashed in intermediate...
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:53:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Then again some games are easier then others, CS is a REALLY hard game when you compare it to say Call of Duty which doesn't have as much strategy as it does. Fighting games though, those things are HARD to get good at.
zrvwls ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:11:21 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Haha I feel like I'm reading my own story here, went through the same thing. Regularly getting banned from public servers for "cheating", having auto-balance kick me from team-to-team on those servers, playing in a handful of PUGs with other CAL-m players who were trying to reach that last threshold of skill after the team was done scrimming and going over strats, getting demolished when you find out you are pugging against another group with 2 or 3 CAL-i friends.. The skill level at those highest levels is just ridiculous, and it went beyond just reaction time and gun skill. The ability to predict what everyone was going to do, knowing when to push/peak, use wall-shooting to poke and weaken your opponents, knowing what guns the other team was going to have based off of money, etc etc etc.. There was so much meta in CS 1.3 - 1.6, it was a truly fun and unique time to be playing, especially with all the raw talent around.
It was also always really mindblowing to watch a top-tier CAL-m team get promoted up to CAL-i, get WRECKED their first season, and THEN watch as their team either A) replace/recruit other CAL-i caliber players to stay competitive in CAL-i, B) have some of their players cheat to win enough matches (usually caught before/during playoffs) or C) hear about them playing a ridiculous amount to refine their skills and strats, and become a mediocre CAL-i team but eventually fizzle after 1 season and have all their players disperse to other CAL-m and CAL-i teams.
techniforus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:24:53 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yea, I had very similar experiences except I had a server i frequented which had three CAL-m level clans with people trying to go CAL-i where I spent a lot of my time. It was so much more fun than pubbing and didn't have to deal with cheat accusations often (everyone was damn good) nor cheaters (everyone knew how to spot them). I certainly pubbed, scrimmed, and played in leagues too though and our experiences match exactly there.
zrvwls ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:39:02 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Shit you're exactly right.. Now that you mention it, I remember having one of those too, where netcode was turned off and it only had official CAL rotation DE_ maps (train, rotterdam, dust2, aztec, cbble), and there were constantly CAL-i/m players in it who played under pseudonyms... I want to say I would randomly see players like da bears in there, can't remember the name of it tho. What a small world man haha, thanks for bringing up these ancient memories!
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:51:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In my early to mid teams I was the same way in FPS. Would have loved to have a chance to play against some pros, I'm sure I would have been crushed.
CERON1 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:42:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is like me for Warcraft 3. I was rank 1 on US WEST, and for a time would have been the best player on the server. When it came to pro tournaments and leagues often I wouldn't even take a game off the semi pro players.. and these semi pros (Strifecro, Holyhuman, Pato etc) in turn wouldn't take a game off the true pros (like Grubby, Moon etc).
german_humorist ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:15:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yup, me too. I'm intuitively good at shooters, but my 1.6 regimen was at least 6 hours a day to stay competitive.
Either way, NiP was another league. Maaaaaaybe not individual skill, but tactics and shit were another world.
AtiumMisting ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:06:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was pretty high ranked in Heroes of the Storm at one point. I was/am also lucky enough to be friends with a couple of members of one of the top 2 teams on the planet in that game and have gotten to play a few games with/against them. To say they destroyed me would be a massive understatement.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:55:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Didn't that game come out 6 months ago? Not very long for a competitive scene to develop. Those are top tier MOBA players transferring their skills over.
AtiumMisting ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:03:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Competitive scene has been around since beta, so longer than that
Xpdcion ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:12:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Professional gaming such as Dota2, LOL, HON or any 5v5 team game is really difficult. You need synchronization and you pretty much need to have "game sense" which every gamer things they have. Some people think theyre good enough to be in a pro gaming team just because they beat the top players on a regular queue and they end up getting smashed at round 1 usually. Competition game is harder than regular games since there is so much pressure, and one mistake can cost you the whole game.
I play HON pro gaming and Dota 2 diamond edition and the shit I have to go through to maintain my rank is really hard. I'm keeping 2 accounts on the ladder and barely hanging too.
BlackenBlueShit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:23:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Even 1% isn't enough, you need to be like top .001% at least to have a chance
asad16 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:21:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What team? I did tournaments and only got to Cevo main, cal-p online
Corosz ยท 80 points ยท Posted at 13:27:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Tell that to Freakazoid or scream
TheDogstarLP ยท 84 points ยท Posted at 14:41:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sean Gares
Oh man.
TinyPotatoe ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:33:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Darkrain and abate from smash are stereotypical extremely attractive people.
Josephmlia ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:19:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
/r/SeanGares
llooggaann ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:36:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
/r/seangares
shh bby is ok
derpherp128 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:42:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
/r/seangares
Osoguineapig ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:08:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
/r/seangares
BreakfastPasta ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:13:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
pronax?
wyix ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:21:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Maplestreet
bubbabubba345 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:17:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Devve baby... Also Nordic girls are hot
DrPeace ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:58:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Don't forget about Shox!
nizochan ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:17:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Speaking as a gay man, Shox is fucking stunning and I'd totally touch his wiener.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 17:15:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:54:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
/r/dosia
Pokegamer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:02:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sex God
ZirGsuz ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 14:17:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Peke, Flame, Flash
JDmino ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:45:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ex-pro, but Snoopeh as well.
Zurrkitty ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 13:41:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Or Sneaky. Dude is legit cute.
pArtie_4 ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 14:08:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sneaky looks like a lesbian.
Gurip ยท 185 points ยท Posted at 13:41:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
there are plenty of attractive pro players.
3z_ ยท 211 points ยท Posted at 14:35:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And plenty of ugly sportspeople.
IBlazeMyOwnPath ยท 74 points ยท Posted at 15:28:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
yep
PhillyPhan10 ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 18:11:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I just knew it'd be Terrell Suggs before I even opened it.
SG_Dave ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:22:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
While getting new teeth makes Suggs look human, I think it's a detriment to his game since opposing offences are less scared of him eating them now.
DJSlambert ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:34:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was expecting the Peyton Manning picture
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 16:10:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Alien looking mother fucker
GuyBelowMeDoesntLift ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:35:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You shut up about t sizzle
IBlazeMyOwnPath ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:40:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Would it surprise you at all to learn whom I happen to support?
Hint, they are playing tomorrow
GuyBelowMeDoesntLift ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:47:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Let me guess, patriots?
They've always been one of my favorite teams, good luck tomorrow. Rooting for them to go all the way again.
BragaSwagga ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:44:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is unfamiliar territory. Patriots support from a ravens fan. Nice!
GuyBelowMeDoesntLift ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:33:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm actually a niners fan I just love suggs
BragaSwagga ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:02:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This makes a lot more sense lol
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:36:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Look at the NBA.
blamb211 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:37:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And everybody playing in it.
jmariorebelo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:49:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Peter Crouch, when asked what we would be if he wasn't a footballer, answered "a virgin". Based on looks alone he's probably right.
[deleted] ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 21:51:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Uhhh...you mean athletes?
Darbinator ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 16:59:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The man biceps himself ๐๐๐
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:47:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Pasha Kreygasm
awesomeificationist ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:30:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Freak's pretty attractive too in my opinion
TheSecondTier ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 18:38:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Shoutouts to Abate (and a plug to /r/ssbm)
TheJetFuel ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:45:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Friendlies and chill?
loopdydoopdy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:55:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Na Westballz best waifu https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/628352622848663552/UFybUsH8.png
TheSecondTier ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:15:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Uhh, might wanna fix that comment there. And learn how to properly link images. But westballz gets a little too Emperor Palpatine for me
CainRedfield ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:33:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They're also starting to realize the importance of physical health to improve their game, so many teams go to the gym 3-4 times weekly to keep up a decent physical shape. Which always helps.
Gurip ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:47:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
they are not starting to realize it, they have done it for long time, pro teams in korea have exercise time inbetween practice and personal trainers for long time even as far back as good old brood war days.
Lasereye ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:08:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think he means western teams are finally catching on.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:39:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
OG, EG, Secret, Alliance KappaPride
randompostings ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:18:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, but the title of e-sport player and traditional athlete do not (currently, at least) hold the same connotations when it comes to attractiveness.
Marc3812 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:55:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hws13MSKKiY
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:27:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Alliance! Their pure north european swag is what makes them amazing. And rat dota. That too.
artyboi37 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:45:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
paszaBiceps, my friend
PKPenguin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:36:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Google "smash bros melee Abate"
Abate Kreygasm
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:17:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly you have to be one of the best ~500 people in the world at something that people love to do
JimblesSpaghetti ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:06:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Best 500? If you seriously want to live off of CSGO for example, you'll have to be in a Top 20 team, 20x5 players for each team = 100, now take +20 for the people that could be good enough but aren't in a team at the moment or left one and you're with the top 120 players.
And if you don't want to get paid minimum wage, you'll either have to be in a top 5 NA Team or a top 10 team globally.
waxattacks ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:47:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Minus the attractiveness?? Have you seen Cloud 9's CS:GO team??
Majormlgnoob ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:12:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And not every pro-athlete looks like Tom Brady
darps ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 22:38:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There are plenty of cute guys in esports. Those who fit the stereotype of the basement-dwelling fat neckbeard living on Mtn Dew and pizza don't usually make it because it also takes discipline and teamwork. Sadly there are still far too few girls in the scene. (Go RNG Remi)
Doctah_Whoopass ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:29:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Shes trans tho....
darps ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:34:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Who gives a damn? Seriously for her status as first girl in the LCS it's completely irrelevant if she was born with a dick.
Doctah_Whoopass ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:14:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Which is excellent, obviously. Professional gaming needs more women, I was just saying that she is trans.
darps ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:44:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm well aware, but I still don't see how it's relevant.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:52:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Kind of adding an interjection here. Though this is what I noticed people doing when they are trying to improve their skill, you don't need to play 10 hours a day to be good. What really matters is that you try to review your matches.
Look and see what what went wrong and look at what you did right, improving is all about lessening the mistakes. Play a couple matches and try to record them in some way. Then you review the worst and best matches to get a feel what you did wrong.
Our brain kinda works that way too. If you try to play for 4+ hours that also means your brain needs to process more than 4+ hours of gameplay. And by then your brain will probably be too tired to try to comprehend all that information.
So only play about 2 hours of gameplay or less. Review, then head to bed, so your body and brain rests and comprehends all that juicy MLG information.
Funkays ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:34:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not so much esports but I know a guy who plays WoW 24/7. Raids with some US 30 guild and makes his money from selling carries. Whether that's in gold or usd. Not like he makes enough though to sustain anything other than sub and weed
noitarenoxe ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:51:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Esports is an interesting phenomenon
You truly have to have a passion if you want to play. No job stability, insane hours, intense stress, countless haters, and often crappy pay.
There are obviously many plusses, but def completely different and tougher than just "playing".
RICH_PENZOIL ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:19:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Don't assume just because they play games at a top level, that they are uglier than any other professional sports person. A lot of top level gamers actual look after their appearance a lot. A lot of them live together in gaming houses and go to the gym together and eat healthy.
wronglyzorro ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:16:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I agree. It takes an immense amount of talent and dedication to compete at the highest level in the esports world. Unfortunately while streaming has meant the world to esports, it also works against it in some ways. Streamer girls and other "personalities" devalue the legitimacy of esports in the eyes of those who do not truly under stand it.
While I love esports, people do often try to equate pro esports to that of actual sports. There is just no fair comparison to the immense work that goes into professional athlete training and that of a pro gamer. Playing something like league of legends 13 hours a day is in no what remotely equatable to say the training an NFL athlete goes through.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:35:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"sports"
hendrix67 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:56:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think it's certainly a valid argument. I'm not entirely convinced that it really fits the criteria of a sport but it's definitely a competitive game at least. To be honest though it doesn't matter that much, what we label it as has little to no effect on it.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:54:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Trap shooting is an olympic sport so eSports are real sports by that extrension. If it requires physical dexterity it's a sport. Esports require dexterity in both arms when played.
nizochan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:16:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yup. I've played various games at a decently high level and the amount of time you have to invest to stay good is insane.
D0ct0rJ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:19:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There should be a documentary on this - showing how much better they are and how much time they devote.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:01:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Watch free2play (I'm on mobile or I would link it). Its dota specific but it shows 3 guys who pretty much threw away the possibility at a normal life for their reports careers
pennypinball ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:58:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"the smash brothers" is an episode series documentary over competitive super smash brothers melee, and it will definitely show people being better and how much time they put into something they love
CainRedfield ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:31:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They also practice more than traditional athletes do, mainly because there are no physical restrictions. To be a top level LoL player, you have to devote at least 12 hours a day, 7 days a week to the game.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:15:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most eSports players are average looking. Some are ugly and some are really good looking. It's almost like they're people...
Majormlgnoob ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:14:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Same with pro athletes in traditional sports
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:57:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ya but he was talking about esports players
Majormlgnoob ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:09:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well he did say minus the attractiveness implying all athletes were attractive
Scarletfapper ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:32:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Pretty sure this attitude comes from the same old chestnut of "videogames are for kids".
Macismyname ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:47:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Snute is a sexy man.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:24:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's still stupid
pugwalker ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:32:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have played thousands of hours of sc2 and am one of those guys that plays against professionals consistently on ladder. I can tell you that I am no where near their skill level and you need both natural talent and extreme dedication to play professionally.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:28:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
eSports are so hard on the body. All that sitting & repetitive motion.
oodsigma8 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:38:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
minus the attractiveness??
what about pronax??
xj13361987 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:56:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How do you even get good at something like cs go?
sk8r2000 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:39:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well (in general) they spend a hell of a lot more time practising than any physical sportsmen would
UndeadBread ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:30:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If given the opportunity to play XBLA Uno professionally, I think I could do it.
BildoTheKid ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:52:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
:,( Sg@res
[deleted] ยท -14 points ยท Posted at 14:50:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nah
turkeypants ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:51:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeahhh, it's still just video games.
TJzzz ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:25:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
what teams you looking at? girl/guy both MLG require workout regiments and free time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WXvLj5TCKw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHaDsqKZ-gM
andyweir ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 18:28:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Those games are infinitely easier than actual sports. Like my friend said:
If you took 5 people, put them in a gaming house, and said all they had to do was play League all day...if you put them in the LCS they'd probably have a good chance of taking games from people
But if you did the same thing and had them play the worst team in any professional sport, they wouldn't even come close to taking a game
Esports are all about commitment. Most people just don't have the time or the full desire to play those games competitively. There are different levels of competitiveness and most people just play for casual competitiveness. Plus, most know they can't fully compete with kids who have 0 responsibility and all the time in the world
That's why esports are a young man's game. When I was playing cod in high school, I could play for 8 hours straight on any given day. Can't do that in college and damn sure can't do that while I got bills to pay and shit to do
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:08:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sports in general are young peoples game, but esports is as well i will give you that. As you age you lose reaction time. Its pretty well documented.
But you are who the op is talking about. There is a level which exceeds effort in e sports. You wouldn't become a cod pro by playing more cod, not by being on a team with other good people, and not by dedicating an unemployed persons free time into it. Well maybe cod I don't know what that game is like at a top tier but definitely not mobas or RTS' or csgo.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:09:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
FiftyFingerFurn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:26:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lots of natural physical talent dude
Lost_in_Adeles_Rolls ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 21:28:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
...what
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:07:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It is just a video game, i don't know why people get so excited about it
butsuon ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:43:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ex-Pro CS player here. The practice sessions for professional teams are scheduled and managed for eSports teams the same way primary sports are.
You go to the gym to stay in shape, because overall health improves your reflexes. Your diet is usually controlled for the same reasons. 40 hours or more a week doing drills, running scrim matches with other pros and semi-pros.
The reason pros are so good is because that shit is -practiced-. It's muscle memory.
Jabonex ยท -11 points ยท Posted at 14:44:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've never got the grips of Professional players.. I just don't know. Do they love doing that ? Are they proud to just play only one games everyday and doing the same thing over and over again ? It's not that every games are boring (if i said that that would be my opinions) but that they're doing the same strategy that they change over the game based on the opponents reaction. Do they like it ? Starcraft 2 is that interesting and replayable ? Well, i have to say GG to them anyway, because training for a videogame ? That will be a nope for me.
Sixstringkiing ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:19:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Why do you put spaces between your sentences and your question marks?
cheesyguy278 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:06:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe english isn't his first language, and he mainly speaks French?
Jabonex ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 15:22:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've always did that. Even on paper.
timothyj999 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:31:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"I've always did that."
Jesus Christ. Did you fail second grade grammar?
H3xtra ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:36:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Said he always does it; doesn't do it.
Keladn ยท -6 points ยท Posted at 14:50:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
professional sports players have even less strategy associated with every player imo. the coach does most of their calls. in eSports, it's the players job, as a team to make all the shots and do something that the other team hasn't seen yet. if the other team has seen it before, you best believe they've practiced how to handle that exact situation.
WaterChestnut3 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:43:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lots of esports teams have a coach who's just as relatively important as a coach for a real sports team.
An example is relatively recently at a high profile csgo game, the coach went to hug a player who was defusing the bomb at the last possible second, and bumped his arm before it finished, making them lose.
Purplestackz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:27:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do you have a link to that? I'd love to see it
WaterChestnut3 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:13:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For some reason I can't get to it on mobile, but it was a pretty high ranking post in /r/livestreamfails if you want to look for it there
SQRT2_as_a_fraction ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 15:28:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wonder if we'll reach a point where eSports will have coaches overlooking the game and shouting strategies.
TuxOut ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:52:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's already a thing in csgo
OBAN141 ยท -12 points ยท Posted at 15:55:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Before you fucking inbreds downvote me, read my arguments.
I'm a huge huge fan of e sports. I love cs and always will, until valve fucks it up. E sports do not hold a candle to physical sports such as hockey or football. Try sniping a shot after getting your bell rung in centre ice and you're now missing a few teeth. Try hitting your rifle shots after being literally KOd by a linebacker. You can't.
Hockey and football require ridiculous mental preparation as well as an insane amount of physical fitness, strength, and endurance. I'd argue E sports are MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH easier to compete in, compared to pro physical sports.
LunaticSongXIV ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:38:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There's still plenty of 'traditional' sports that don't have that kind of physical contact. You're kinda cherry-picking your argument here.
OBAN141 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:39:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's cool, I don't care about other "traditional sports," my argument is regarding hockey and football.
_Noise ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:33:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Tomatoes are a fruit."
"Yes, but they are not fruits like blueberries or strawberries are."
"Right but they are still a fruit."
"I'm only talking about blueberries and strawberries. Not fruits."
OBAN141 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:09:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
While your comment is an overview that e sports are not traditional sports, etc.. it is irrelevant to my point.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:11:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think he was comparing the two in levels of difficulty.
OBAN141 ยท -7 points ยท Posted at 16:20:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No, it fucking isn't.
Exodor54 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:38:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Man, that's just stupid. First of, they're in different leauges. It's like comparing a cook to a scientist. Secondly, e-sports is a professional sport just like physical sports. Why aren't you hating on, for example, chess? Just because it's a physical activity does in no way mean it's superior. What, is the world champion in weight lifting superior to Stephen Hawking? Put and professional physical sports man vs a pro e-sport gamer in a game and he'll get destroyed, same if reversed. Put a pro e-sport gamer against a physical sportsman, and he'll get destroyed. Both are exceedingly difficult and require severe practice.
Toshiro46 ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 16:52:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
One is being very good at pointing and shooting, along with some basic strategy and teamwork.
Another is intense control over your body and intense strategy and teamwork.
Quite a bit of difference. Sure, QBs are smart, but even the linemen have to be pretty fucking intelligent.
Edit: don't understand the downvotes. I've been playing video games since I was 3 years old and I'm fairly talented at them. Moreover, I also play several sports, mostly soccer and tennis. It's very easy to understand the difference between them.
OBAN141 ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 17:52:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
E sports and physical contact sports are both team based; team A vs team B. Cooks and scientists don't have fuck all in common in that regard. You're looking at difficulty in a mental manner, which cooking and 'being a scientist' both are. The difference between e sports and contact physical sports is largely physical fitness etc. E sports are not physical whatsoever in comparison to physical contact sports.
No don't put words in my mouth. I respect chess.
Your quote, not mine.
No, but someone who needs to be physically fit to at an extreme level and intelligent enough to play at a high level has a more difficult task. E sports do not require you to be fit.
The sky is blue.
Absolutely. BUT, there is a reason why sports players > e sports players in terms of salary. I hope that always will be true.
PurpleSpacePirate ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:35:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My main account is challenjour I play for TSM you scrub.... So glad I stopped playing league of legends.
cheesecrystal ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:11:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well, It's hard to do these things and be attractive to women.
Cry3TearsForMe ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 16:37:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Have you seen faze censor? The guy is (coming from a guy) hot as fuck.
Dent18 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 18:45:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I just don't see the point
I don't know why, but the artificialness of this versus baseball or something makes it seem pretentious and a waste of time
NotARealDragon ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:02:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Call it competitive video games or something if the term esports bothers you. The competitions would still exist if it wasn't called esports.
sailorgrumpycat ยท 52 points ยท Posted at 16:26:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Play poker/gamble at a professional level. The amount of bankroll monitoring, control, initial investment, and preparation of skill in the particular game you are trying to make money off of are simply ridiculous. Not to mention the forethought required to take into account unseen aspects of long term gambling, like physical health and relationship issues that come with being a professional gambler that isn't Phil Ivey or someone of that caliber. I have been playing different kinds of poker at a legitimate part time level now for a decade, and that shit is more strenuous than being an active duty sailor in the U.S. Navy. People think because they have watched WSOP or something like that enough times that they know what to expect, but just like watching MMA, the TV shows only show the parts of it that don't make you regret all of your life decisions up to that point.
MattGeddon ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:50:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep. Played poker for 12+ years and I used to make a small amount playing SNGs online - decent enough for a bit of extra income when I was in uni. I still consider myself a fairly decent player but my recent attempts at making any money through cash games have ended through bad bankroll management or tilting.
As an aside, I used to live with a guy who, having never played poker before, decided he was going to make ยฃ100 a week playing it online right off the bat and that was going to be his new job. Dude, I've been playing for five years, and I know I couldn't make anywhere near enough money to live on, what makes you think you can?
bjsy92 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:42:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What is tilting? I am so scared of losing money that I took $2 of my sports betting $45 and played blackjack online the other day. Quit when I got up $2. Lolol
MattGeddon ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:55:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being on tilt basically means that you're not in the right mental state to play, often triggered by a bad beat, which causes you to make bad decisions and lose even more.
Getting in the right frame of mind and concentrating on how you play and not the results of individual hands is one of the biggest challenges. The correct play is the correct play regardless of whether or not you win the pot, but it's easy to lose sight of that in the heat of battle.
bjsy92 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:57:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Such an insightful explanation, I really appreciate it!
TreyvonJBallsIII ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:00:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a moderately successful medium stakes pro. Bankroll management is no joke. I've gone 2+ months without making any money before. Live conservatively(not politically, cringe); your savings is your operating capital. You also have to have the mental strength to not go insane during these periods where you're unsuccessful for a long time for no damn reason. Short term results mean so little that with just a touch of intellectual dishonesty, you can wildly misjudge your skill level and earning potential. Especially since most people who try this are burnouts looking for easy money. Plus all the work that goes into, you know, actually being good at the game.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:39:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I always laugh when someone tells me they are trying to become a professional poker player and their job is just temporary.
jdoe74 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:37:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I play poker pretty serious hobby for many years. I have played in the WSOP, I play what most people would consider pretty large games / tournaments. My win rate per hour is in the neighborhood $2-3/hr.
I know how much time and effort I have put in to be this mediocre. I can't tell you how many asshats I have played with that claim to be pros.
Yeah, you called a preflop 3bet all-in with KJoff 300 big blinds deep.
And beat KK runer-runner flush, and now your bragging Standard pro call.
mic_giu ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:17:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Who 3bet shoves 300 bb deep?
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 21:45:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
SpiritoftheTunA ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:29:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
all casino games except ones against other players (poker) are negative expected value, or house-favored (with stuff like poker, they just skim off the top)
there are no strategies that will let you consistently win in any of them. if there were, that game would be potentially unprofitable for the casino. even counting cards in blackjack doesn't push you into +EV in any casinos anymore.
you are losing money on average when you play roulette. it's just like the lottery. if you win, you lucked out, period. you may have been playing a strategy where you would've been losing, say, 50 dollars a week on avg rather than 100, but there is no strategy to avg a win.
i guess your break-even strategy is technically EV=0, but there's no potential for winning anything there...
BathRobeJesus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:59:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's why it's a once a week (if that) fun time deal for me.
I love shooting the shit with people. Even more if I have a stack of chips handed to me by a cute East Asian girl.
[deleted] ยท 18 points ยท Posted at 20:40:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Parenting.
If you're so good at parenting, why is your child an asshole?
The behaviours of the child are a reflection of the parent.
unfashionablyleft ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:48:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
One thing you realize after actually being a parent, is that you only get to control about 20% of the child's personality and decisions.
At the very most, 20%.
The other 80% is the other parent, siblings, friends, television, internet, society, genetics, and the roll of the dice.
It's tough to make peace with this. I still haven't done it.
Gameipedia ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 00:35:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
could also be the fact THAT PEOPLE ARE THEMSELVES, regardless of what they are taught.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:42:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I see you've never met a brainwashed person before?
Gameipedia ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:20:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
not to my knowledge, though it might be just bias based on myself and my friends, who have maybe some traits similar to our parents, but are generally very unlike them as people
capnpitz ยท 140 points ยท Posted at 13:06:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Explain the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Bogrom ยท 64 points ยท Posted at 15:50:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I want to make a witty comment on how this is meta, but even that might be me misunderstanding the Dunning-Kruger effect
jcskarambit ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:32:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Way too meta for me.
Carnivorous_Jesus ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:13:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This makes so much sense. I'm definitely a professional psychologist.
deadboltduck ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:31:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
hey don't shit on the DKE, a lot of people's confidence and self worth are riding on it
Killgravemademedoit ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:34:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
All those basic bitches on facebook
might actually have to face the fact that some criticism is justifiedunderstand that the DKE can be summed up as "you don't know my story"watch_bird ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:10:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
well it seems I lack the skill to judge my skill
goat18 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:29:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm so hipster that I think people who read about this might fake being humble so that other people who also know about the effect praise them for it, and redditors can circlejerk about it.
FrancyTheKing ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:33:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The less you know, the more you think you know because you don't even know what you don't know. How about that.
screwthat4u ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:41:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is becoming a popular way to dismiss people
capnpitz ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 19:31:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't mean to be dismissive of anybody, and I'm sorry to come across that way. My intention was to make a cheeky joke at no one in particular's expense.
potato_chrisp ยท 163 points ยท Posted at 13:25:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Give out diet and exercise advice. It can be quite dangerous, especially all of the post pregnancy workouts that pop up on my Facebook feed. Seek professional advice before starting a drastic diet or exercise regime.
demostravius ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 23:47:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Even proffesionals suck at this though.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 19:46:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
anythingless ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 01:23:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I declare bakruptcy
arkansaurus ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:25:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I didn't say it, I declared it.
stackered ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:46:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So many instabrahs and instahoes doling out diet advice while on steroids
Noq64 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:04:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not really that difficult if you start simple. Burn more calories than you take in and you lose weight.
PmMeGiftCardCodes ยท 122 points ยท Posted at 13:04:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Be a mechanic. As a mechanic I see so many fucked up botched jobs it's not even funny (or safe)
Edit - Changing brake pads, mufflers, and small things isn't all that hard. (Unless bolts start breaking on you when it comes apart). But diagnosing why an engine misfires at only, say, 2500 rpms and only 2500, is difficult. I actually do marine engines, which are high performance engines. And my engines run at full throttle most of the time. When a customer comes to you and says my engine used to turn 5000 rpms at full throttle, but only turns 4500 now, finding out where those missing 500 rpms went to can be an all day affair, and sometimes more. One has to have some fairly intricate experience and knowledge to figure out things like that without throwing parts at it.
azazelsnutsack ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 16:07:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The difference between an amateur mechanic and an idiot is know what is out of your scope of expertise and experience.
I do 90% of the work in my own vehcicles. Grew up working on cars, and related mechanic training from the military.
But sometimes there are problems that I know I can't handle, can't figure out, don't have the tools, or just don't want to handle.
For example, the press in bearings on my rear hubs.
Could I have done it? Yeah, probably eventually. I don't have the right tools, and it would have taken me a whole weekend. I could rent a lift for the day, but there's a good chance I'd mess something up. So, I dropped the car of at my mechanic before breakfast, and it was done at lunch.
_FranklY ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:36:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm in a similar situation, although I have no formal training.
The only work we don't do, is work that we physically can't, like changing the fuel pump on a Land Rover we had (had to jack it up, tear the back end apart and get an engine lift in there)
rangemaster ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:58:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In my area everyone seems to have their own personal "mechanic" which is really just a guy (usually a relative of their's) with a harbor freight tool set.
The amount of carnage these guys can do is insane.
Sixstringkiing ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 15:21:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a mechanic is hardly an unreachable goal.
originalfedan ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:49:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's not unreachable, but so many people mess up so badly and don't even own the proper tools and try to make due with what they have. No one should get under a vehicle with only a jack holding it up.
hesafunnyone ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 16:12:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But it's only gonna take me a second. I gotta take a couple bolts off my Cadillac converter. It's rattling bad. But I got my adjustable pliers. Should be a quick job.
originalfedan ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:44:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lol just hearing Cadillac converter makes me unreasonably angry. I always have to correct them by saying "it's catalytic converter. It undergoes catalysis. Your car doesn't become a Cadillac".
voteferpedro ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:43:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It sounds like an old one if you botch fixing it.
ITRAINEDYOURMONKEY ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:03:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I now have "The Impossible Dream" stuck in my head and am picturing Don Quixote on his desperate quest to become a mechanic
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:40:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not unreachable, but trust me, some people just don't have what it takes. I worked in service engineering for a couple of years and saw this first hand almost every day.
ptb3 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:13:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not in reachable, but being a good one takes years and years of experience
PmMeGiftCardCodes ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 15:24:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Try it......
Sixstringkiing ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:25:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hold my beer.
KaseTheAce ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:39:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes! I hate "parts changing" mechanics. Instead of diagnosing the actual problem, they say "it's probably this. Start with this". And when it doesn't work, they just throw more parts at it.
I had a friend take their car to the shop. The shop said that all 3 catalytic converters were bad. They took out the oxygen sensors that are before/ on the cats (the two in the front) and it ran better so they claimed all three were bad. I asked if the took the oxygen sensors that were after the first two cats out and they said they hadn't. So, how they fuck do they know they're all clogged?? They didn't. They just assumed they were. It turns out only the rear cat was clogged up. But because of their diagnosis, my friend would have paid an extra $1000 just for those two exhaust manifolds that weren't even bad.
Tl;dr ask a mechanic friend before you replace parts or you'll most likely end up spending a lot more money than you need to.
Philip_De_Bowl ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:27:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I used to work for a parts changer. He tried getting me to become a parts changer too. He wasn't too happy when I quit on the spot in front of a customer he just raped.
Waspkeeper ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 15:53:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you tried to fix it I charge extra
not_mantiteo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:09:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can definitely see that. On the other hand, there aren't too many auto shops around me and the ones that are have been said to be scummy. That kind of leads to randos like me doing botched jobs.
fatalalala ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:51:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Came here to say this. DIYers can do repairs with some success, but I would say most are very bad at diagnosing problems. As a professional, you can't just start guessing and replacing things. You need to have an understanding of engine performance, suspension, alignment geometry, air conditioning, brakes, electronics and wiring, etc. Plus, you'll most likely have at least 10k dollars of your own money in tools. Oh, and people will constantly question your integrity (you touched it last, so you broke it). That being said, I love my job.
PmMeGiftCardCodes ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:06:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Your reply was the point I wish I made. Changing brake pads, mufflers, and small things isn't all that hard. (Unless bolts start breaking on you when it comes apart). But diagnosing why an engine misfires at only, say, 2500 rpms and only 2500, is difficult. I actually do marine engines, which are high performance engines. And my engines run at full throttle most of the time. When a customer comes to you and says my engine used to turn 5000 rpms at full throttle, but only turns 4500 now, finding out where those missing 500 rpms went to can be an all day affair, and sometimes more. One has to have some fairly intricate experience and knowledge to figure out things like that without throwing parts at it.
90bronco ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:35:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Changing your brake pads are easy. Changing brakes all day, meeting the SRT times, and doing it day after day is not
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:28:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is exactly how mechanics fix things now.
LessLikeYou ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:04:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh come on...anything you can do duct tape can do better right?
markevens ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:50:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I like to do my own car repairs whenever I can, but frequenting /r/Justrolledintotheshop reminds me that I'm a complete amateur and would get laughed out the door if I tried to get hired at a local garage.
lakemonster137 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:50:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I agree, I've worked as a mechanic in quite a few fields, small engine/equipment, marine (mostly outboard and I/O), and currently work on Cadillacs. It's not just plugging in the scan tool like people seem to think it is. Diagnostics can be the toughest part of the job and unfortunately a lot of people don't know how use problem solving skills applied to technical information or just straight up don't know how it works. Don't throw parts at it, fix it right the first time.
The_mr_marshall ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:44:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I work on cars a lot as a sort of freelance side thing to make extra money, every couple of days I have a new job I'm doing and have been at this for quite a while now. I can change parts no problem and am somewhat competent when it comes to diagnosing problems. I went to college to study automotive technology but had to drop out before I finished.
With that being said I still am hesitant to call myself a mechanic because I know enough to know that I don't really know that much. I wouldn't even know where to start with diagnosing where those 500 rpm went.
Viper_ACR ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:52:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
/r/justrolledintotheshop
greywar777 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:38:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
60% of the things that shops do are doable by anyone who takes the time. Its that other 40% that you should never EVER touch.
Funny thing is this applies to electrical cars too, despite a TON less moving parts, the voltages involved are insanely dangerous.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:26:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
On the other hand, the level of incompetence in so called professional mechanics these days is alarmingly high. The c level techs changing your oil are probably no better trained than the cashier at your grocery store. The A level techs these days seem to be non mechanically inclined people who went to wyotech and are unable to consider things they have not encountered or learned about.
As an example, an A level tech replaced the bent aluminum pushrods in my Subaru engine with steel ones. To the non mechanical, this might seem like a good idea. A good tech however, would have realized that the rods were aluminum to expand at the same rate as the aluminum engine block, to avoid changing valve clearance as the engine warms up. Is it too much to ask that an A level tech can consider things like this?
KoedKevin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:47:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Some people are just Engine Whisperers. My dad had a masters degree in mechanical engineering and worked on engines both professionally and privately all his life. He had a gift for diagnosing a mechanical problem. I could call him on the phone and he would ask seemingly unrelated questions and after a few minutes he'd be 90% sure what the problem was. I grew up around this and we worked on cars together for the first 20 years of my life. I do most of the work on an engine once I have a diagnosis but I am convinced that there is such a thing as an Engine Whisperer.
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 16:18:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write. Everyone knows how to write, so everyone thinks they could probably do it for pay. Like everyone who is actually getting paid to write didn't spend years doing it on their own time to build their skills, then years working for shit pay to get experience, and then finally getting a decent check for it, if they're lucky.
Source: am currently between the first and second stages.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:11:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Agreed. Came in here looking for this response.
Jiffreg ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:46:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Here's a quote from Yahtzee Croshaw that I think sums up the situation:
good4damichigander ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:03:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Agreed.
I have actually had several novels published by small houses (like 5) and the amount of idiocy that people have towards writing is astronomical.
If you can write short stories well enough for publication (no, you can't, sit down), that doesn't automatically mean you can write a novel. It's almost an entirely different skill set.
Getting the idea for a novel is not the hard part. Slogging through eighty-thousand words, going back and editing them over and over and over until you hate everyone, putting the manuscript down for six months while you drink and cry and wonder if your day job is really that bad, and then editing again and again, until words cease to make sense and you can't tell whether the entire thing is in english or spanish, and now--no, you've only started. Now comes the part where you query, and send to god knows how many publishers, and maybe after a year of this shit you get a revise and resubmit which you're grateful as shit for, and maybe you finally get offered a contract and then there's another several months of edits with an editing team including content, copy, and line--and oh, by the way, I have gotten manuscripts back that said, "I don't like this backstory. Make a new backstory" or "Everybody cannot die in the end, rewrite the ending"--and then after all of that shit, the fucker finally gets published, so you can get your tiny pittance of royalty checks (fuck advances, do those even exist anymore) and swear to god you will never write anything again.
Until, like childbirth, you forget your pain, and start it up again, and now you have to finish what you start.
My new favorite hobby is to go up to people loudly blathering about their "writing process" in coffee shops and say, "oh, you're published? that's great! Where?" and when they "well i haven't finished it yet/written it yet/anything yet" i just walk away without saying anything because FUCK YOU nobody needs more "ideas" or lectures about process in the writing world.
Actually, at this stage, I don't tell people I meet anymore that I have written or published anything. It only solicits way too much advice I didn't ask for from people wholly unqualified to give it.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:25:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Many people could write a novel if they wanted too. Most probably underestimate the amount of work it takes to write one.
tehjoshers ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:11:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It really bugs me when people brag about the trilogy they're writing, and only when probed reveal that they're only two chapters into the first book, or haven't started writing but have a groundbreaking idea. I don't think they appreciate how much real estate is in 4,000 pages.
good4damichigander ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:17:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Especially since the hardest part of any fucking book to write is the middle, and the hardest book to write in a trilogy is the second. It's pretty common to know how it starts, and how it ends, and not known how to pace the middle sixty thousand paces.
tehjoshers ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:20:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But I'm sure your teenage heroine, in a post-apocalyptic setting, where she's totally normal but is still somehow humanity's last hope, will resonate well with readers. It's an untapped market!
good4damichigander ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:16:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes, they can write "a novel", as in stringing together 80 thousand words. Writing that 80 thousand words without messing up POV, making sure there is a good character arc, making sure all the emotional loose ends are tied up, making sure its not too much like somebody else's manuscript, making sure to map out every scene so that there are no inconsistencies in terms of logic, blocking, etc., making sure that parts that were revised don't accidentally miss continuity, etc..... Generally, you need to write 3 to 4 novels to even start to get to a place where you can write one good novel.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 22:36:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Professional survivalist. 95% of you that think you're gonna make it in an apocalypse, won't. Myself included.
juicius ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 02:22:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is the one I find most hilarious. I like watching survivalist shows, even the scripted ones. Naked and Afraid was my guilty pleasure for a while and the number of gung ho survivalist alpha male hunter types who thought they could hack it because they hunted all their lives. Yeah, you drove to a hunting preserve, checked into a cabin with plumbing, lugged your $2000 rifle with $1000 scope to a tree stand half a mile away and shot a deer that's been fed all year. You are a god of hunting.
thezep ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 12:24:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I remember one episode where the guy actually got pissed that the woman caught a fish instead of him and he went all "where I'm from its the mans job to hunt/fish blah blah blah southern heritage retard babble.." it was too unbelievable I thought it had to be scripted.
beaverteeth92 ยท 43 points ยท Posted at 15:11:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Referee.
impaladriver ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:29:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There's no winning when you're a referee, you could call a game perfectly and some people will still think you're terrible/biased/cheating/all 3.
RealSheriff ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:27:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Absolutely. I umpire Australian football and after a finals match which my team and I did a fantastic job of umpiring, a spectator from the losing side decided to meet us at the change rooms to let us know how terrible we are at our job. I've been called any name under the sun since I started umpiring. Still love it though.
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:23:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
beaverteeth92 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:41:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm reminded of when the NFL had a few high school refs substituting (I think this was a few years ago) and people flipped at this one really bad call.
Majormlgnoob ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:37:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No one likes the Fail Mary
bjsy92 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:43:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
was not even high school, it was college refs
Majormlgnoob ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:36:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Rejected college refs
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:38:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You've gotta KNOW the sport you're refing (reffing? reffering? refferreing? refferring?)
Dexaan ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:19:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Reffing is correct.
jesse9o3 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:09:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Refereeing or officiating.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:08:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Aight
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:51:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
beaverteeth92 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:17:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The issue isn't as black-and-white as you'd think.
mralistair ยท 105 points ยท Posted at 15:07:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Interior design
feathergun ยท 26 points ยท Posted at 17:32:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My biggest pet peeve. When I tell people that I work in interior design I hate it when they respond "I want to go to school for that! Just for fun! I love Feng shui!" Yeah, you do that. It'll be a blast, trust me.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:03:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So how does interior design actually work? It honestly has always seemed like a "put things in places" kinda deal. Now I'm genuinely interested.
feathergun ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 18:46:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Interior design is as much "put things in places" as architecture is. A better name for the profession would probably be "interior architecture." The emphasis should be on creating a functional, safe and effective use of a space, which does include deciding where furnishings are placed. And also where the walls are placed. And also building code, health code, barrier free considerations, acoustics, lighting, plumbing, occupancy loads and sustainability. A lot of these considerations come more into play when you are working in commercial spaces, as opposed to residential. I think a lot of people look at a designer or interior decorating picking paint colours and furniture for someone's house and assume that's all that they do.
Unfortunately, interior designer isn't a protected profession, like lawyers or dieticians, so anyone can claim to be one. Interior designers can however be licensed by or registered with a professional association, and those are the ones that are educated, experienced and tested.
ParlorSoldier ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 20:26:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wish I could send you a set of commercial interior plans. It's one page of furniture plans, and many, many more pages showing occupancy load and emergency exiting analysis, wheelchair clearances, mounting heights for things like ADA bathroom grab bars, section details of custom millwork pieces, installation details for things like window covering pockets and suspended ceiling pieces, energy code compliance for lighting, details of material transitions, etc. People think interior designers are just creatives, but you need a large amount of nerd in you as well.
PartyPorpoise ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:49:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wow! I never thought it was easy, but I didn't realize all of the stuff that went into it.
ParlorSoldier ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:05:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To give you an idea of the scope of the work I did in school, our projects usually consisted of a program and a building shell. The program was usually something very rudimentary like "medical office for four general practitioners and an allergist, including private offices, a nurse's station, and admin/billing." The plans we were given to work with very commonly nothing but exterior walls, columns, and maybe an elevator lobby. Everything else was our job to figure out. And there was a lot to figure out.
For my senior project, for example, I designed a brewery with a tap room and a bottle shop. So on top of researching things like space requirements in the tap room and storage requirements behind the bar, I had to learn how beer is made. And not only how it's made, but things like, if the tap room has an occupancy of 100, and you want to be able to sell X number of kegs a month to other restaurants in town, and you want to do two brews per week, what size system is needed? What kind of chemicals do you need to clean it, and what kind of materials will stand up to those chemicals? How much clearance space is required around and between tanks to clean and move around while maintaining efficiency? In the real world, you have a client with a business model to work with, and for something like a brewery, maybe a consultant. But in college, part of the trial by fire was researching enough about what you were designing to be able to ask the right questions to come up with a plan that really worked, and wasn't just nice to look at.
tl;dr: Yeah, a lot of stuff goes into it. :)
Minus-Celsius ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:08:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm amazed when I go to someone's cubicle to work, and they always have an extra hot ethernet line and bank of plugs, and enough space for us to work together. Someone thought of this situation happening and paid out to be ready.
Not to mention the obvious things, like gated fire escapes (to prevent stampeding), occupancy codes, well-marked exits, etc.
ParlorSoldier ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:05:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's funny, one of the things that I end up spending way more time on than you would think is coordinating the furniture plan with with the electrical plan. Nothing worse than having a perfectly nice outlet inaccessible because it's hidden behind your desk's support panel. I have meetings with clients that are solely about surveying their office equipment to make sure every piece of technology has the right power in the right place. When furniture is delivered, we have audio/visual subcontractor come back just to do cord management so that everything is as neat and clean as possible.
ingridelena ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:06:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Some of my roommates were interior design majors and that ish was hard. It was more similar to architecture than prop styling. They had to do a ton of drafting, math, make models to scale, etc. It took a lot of patience and even when they were just writing, they had to use a ruler for every line; it was super weird.
nandhuco ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:31:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I hate the rules, didn't got used to them until today.
gigglewatt8383 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:18:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Seconded! /r/casualiama ?
feathergun ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:57:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You can ask me anything you want, but I should warn you that I'm just an interior design tech who graduated less than a year ago. I do work for a residential interior designer (and her business partner, who is an architect), but I have a lot of learning to do.
Numbajuan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:35:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'll ask you this just because it's been in my mind: what would an interior designer charge for a small 750 foot 1 bedroom? I'm moving into a new place and I've always considered getting an interior designer to take a look at my place and design it for me. I'm not a bad decorator but I want something that makes people say "damn this is nice"
feathergun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:15:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I don't really deal with invoicing, and the designer I work for is probably on the expensive side, she really only does high-end custom residential. I believe she charges over $150/hr for her time, less for us techs time. But you can definitely find one for much cheaper, especially if it's a small scope of work. Like are you renovating or just decorating? If it's decorating, you won't need construction docs or anything.
gigglewatt8383 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:31:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Congrats and thanks! The questions that came to mind:
How does job placement work, do most go on to find their own clientele or do they find jobs at existing companies?
How much do your job is actual creativity vs organisation, budgeting, etc?
I'm a graphic and web designer/developer and often get asked to do things I know are poor design choices. If I can't convince the client, I have to give the client what they want in the end, even if I think it's horrible. Does that happen with interior designers as well?
feathergun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:55:17 on January 27, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sorry for the late reply!
I can't imagine most new grads have much luck finding clients of their own. Most people aren't going to trust the construction of a building to someone with zero real world experience. I know a lot of my classmates wanted to go into business for themselves, but most that I know of are working for other people. In my opinion, working for yourself is something that needs to come later in life.
My job is zero creativity lol. For the designer I work for, from what I can tell, most of the creativity happens at the beginning. The rest is nitty gritty construction details, sourcing, budgeting, and trying to placate clients.
Poor or arguably inferior design choices happen all the time. Most of the time it comes down to cost. A particular feature may be an excellent representation of the design vision, but cost 5x more than something ugly but still functional. Usually people will pick something ugly/boring if it's dirt cheap. A lot of people don't build to last, either. They want a renovation right now, but they're already planning to tear it up in 5 years.
GreasedUpWillie ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:28:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My wife also graduated.... so frustrating when people are look "Oh she decorates houses"
feathergun ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:58:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My condolences to your wife lol. I've gotten the impression that people think interior designers only do residential work!
GreasedUpWillie ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:02:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yep that too! People are ignant
ParlorSoldier ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:18:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I work in commercial design, but designed (from the ground up, not just the interiors) a house when I was in school. One of my faculty advisors was a professor in construction management with a background in heavy civil. We affectionately referred to each other as the "pillow fluffer" and the "dirt mover."
GreasedUpWillie ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:22:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wow that's pretty crazy they let students actually make a project come to fruition like that
ParlorSoldier ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:13:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I swear they put the most grief inducing classes at the beginning to weed out the casuals. I tell people who think they're interested in what I do that architecture or design school isn't something you do because you want to - you do it because you "have" to. It's way too hard and life consuming (and the money isn't good enough) if it's not your number one passion.
measureinlove ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:18:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I would love to work in interior design, I just don't think I would be any good at it. I occasionally watch some HGTV shows and some of the designs they put togetherโand the way they make them cohesive despite using a ridiculous number of patterns and colorsโastounds me. I could have put all that same shit into a room and it would look like a clown puked on it. But Joanna Gaines does it and it's beautiful. (Although I'm not a huge fan of the recent gray-wall trend, honestly.)
How did you get into design?
feathergun ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:54:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I guess it's something I'd been interested in since I was a teenager. I went to university for something else, but then I dropped out and got a technical diploma in interior design instead. This is an option in Canada, but I hear interior design techs aren't really a thing in America. Basically, I have a condensed education that placed a strong focus on use of computer applications for interior design purposes. My program provided me with an excellent base knowledge that I can expand upon with experience. I graduated last May and currently work for a residential interior designer. Mostly I do her computer drafting, but also finish selection, sourcing, technical specs and presentation boards. Not the most creative job at the moment, but an excellent learning experience.
ParlorSoldier ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:59:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I have a BA in interior design with a concentration in interior architecture - my program was a good combination between theory and technology. Every semester we took a lab and a studio, with studio focusing on concept and theory and lab focusing on programs and presentation. Additionally, we took multiple courses in graphic design, photography, architectural history and theory, and professional practices (which included construction practices, materials, and business practices).
I started in a two year program at a community college, and while it was mainly residential focused (they had a NKBA specific certificate program), they did teach CAD and a few other programs. But it's cool that you have a specific program for tech, I don't know of any of those in my area.
EDIT: Doing what you do is definitely a thing in America, but those people generally have a bachelors degree in design, and either focus their interest in technology or fall into it. Honestly, if I could make a good enough living modeling on Revit and Sketchup all day, I would be in heaven. Maybe I can, but I like where I am.
feathergun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:36:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ugh, Revit. Give me Autocad any day!
My program covered history, design fundamentals, building code, construction drawings (primarily for commercial/hospitality/healthcare), building systems, communications, professional practice, and then Autocad, Revit, Sketchup, Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign. From what I understand my program was MUCH less theory based with less focus on the artistic side of design. They fit in as much as they can into two years, but they can't cover it all. If there was a bachelor program available in my city, I would have taken it, but oh well! Most designers and architects here employ techs because that's what's primarily available.
Edit: We did do design studio as well. Over the course of the program we worked on a hotel, school, hospital, retail store, and restaurant.
ParlorSoldier ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:46:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, my programs sounds a lot like yours if it were condensed into two years. Nice to know there's a good job market in Canada too!
feathergun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:52:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well... not so much right now due to the economy. But there's only one school in my province with a CIDA approved program, and two schools that spit out techs twice as fast, so most potential employees are techs.
Tur_keys ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:40:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Where did you study? I have really toyed with this idea but have been put off by time constraints for serious 4-year degree. I have a background in art, design, and business and currently work as the visual merchandiser and buyer for an independent giftshop... but would love to expand on my experience technically. What school / where / how long was your program or any other info would be super appreciated!
feathergun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:09:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is only really applicable if you live in Canada, but I went to a technical school in Alberta for interior design technology. I know other tech schools in other provinces offer similar programs. It's a two-year program, if you take it full-time. At my school if you were full-time you couldn't pick your schedule and were in school generally from 8-3 or 4, everyday. Part-time students could, to some degree, pick what classes they took when.
I took it full-time and I will say that it is a very intensive program. You take 5-6 classes a semester, some of those classes would be split into 2 or 3 portions, each with their own assignments. So you really end up taking 8+ classes per semester. You could expect to spend minimum 15 hours a week on homework outside of school, much more if you were working on a design project. Late nights at the project studio were a common thing.
Tuition was lower than when I went to a large university, but I did need to buy a laptop with specific minimum requirements beforehand, and I spent quite a bit on supplies (so much money on paper...) throughout the program.
I will say that pretty much everything I've been asked to do at my current job, I learned in school. So I would say that my education was very relevant.
Tur_keys ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:00:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you! I really appreciate your answer and thought put into your reply. I do live in Ontario so I know there are programs through a few colleges in this province. I had never heard it referred to as Interior Design Technology and wasn't sure if it might be a newer program just recently offered. I am just so hesitant about the timing aspect. I live in more of a rural area so committing to two years of school also means a move and big financial commitment. Those are really my biggest barriers.
I can completely relate to the heavy work load and long hours spent on projects. People truly don't appreciate any schooling for creative works, its very project focused and... emotionally draining! I guess my next question moving forward would be to ask if there are any more specifically tech-based programs you have come across and thought - woah, that would be such a great experience!?
I'm worried that a general interior design program will cross over a lot of that I have already been exposed through working experience and other schooling, not saying I know everything, just that I already have a lot of the basic fundamentals of the aesthetic and space planning part. I'm seeking mostly tech-focused, and building aspects knowledge and wouldn't be opposed to independent courses but, perhaps in your professional opinion? - it might be wiser for me to continue with my experience through work?
I'm sorry to be rambling and asking you all these questions, but you're kind of the first person who might be able to give me some unbiased advice about my future so... i'd appreciate any help or words of advice you may have! Thank you :D
DesignChick01 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:12:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have a Bachelor of Science in Interior Design from a CIDA accredited university in the US. Here, a 4 year program with 2 years of work experience gains you the ability to register for the 3 NCIDQ exams (there are some alternative routes, but that is the most common.) Some of the larger architecture firms still use CAD drafters (probably similar to your position.) Through our professional associations, we have been working to make Interior Design a "protected profession" by creating title laws, but as of now, it varies state to state. I thought your description of our work was very articulate and all too true!
nandhuco ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:33:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
nicholas818 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:34:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"No, you just like watching HGTV."
melissanidani ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:37:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I worked for an interior design firm for a while and met a lot of people (in other companies, applicants, etc.) that called themselves interior designers but had no knowledge of how to measure for window treatments. Interior design isn't just buying a couple of vases/plates/what-have-you and placing them around someone's house.
raider02 ยท 29 points ยท Posted at 18:36:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Magic. What bugs me is the constant, "Can you show me how to do that?" Yeah, I guess if you've got a spare 500 hours you may be able to pull it off.
[deleted] ยท 14 points ยท Posted at 01:14:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
Is_A_Velociraptor ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:32:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
/r/unexpectedhogwarts
Xannin ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:57:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have been learning card tricks, and holy crap just moving the cards correctly is difficult, let alone doing it quickly with good slight of hand is insanely difficult. It's taken me many moons just to get less shitty.
[deleted] ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 14:56:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Stand up Comedy.
RedBlimp ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:42:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am usually pretty good with my deadpan comedy and can easily make people laugh but I know I would crash and burn if I tried to get on stage and do it
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:16:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
it takes practice and a friendly, loving, supportive crowd the first time you go up. If you really had the desire, you could get over the stage fright...I know comics who have profound stammers, but do not on stage when they are doing their act. Amazing, really. I love deadpan humor. You should write some stuff out and go to an open mike. Rehearse, though. Go up prepared. :)
RedBlimp ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:23:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm better with witty deadpan remarks than stories. This is why I'd fail
Guilayton ยท 49 points ยท Posted at 16:20:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Tutoring: It requires you, as an adult, to understand exactly what students are learning about a particular subject at the time. It also requires you to study up to keep your memory and knowledge accurate enough. Basically, you have to learn whatever high schoolers are learning and remember it permanently, unlike in high school where you can forget crap after a test.
akaioi ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 01:12:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A caution ... this thread is so full of "don't even try this at home, losers" kind of comments, and I really don't want that kind of action on tutoring. It's an important job, I'd hate to see people get discouraged.
I do volunteer tutoring. Mostly grade-school kids, but have tutored for high school and college kids as well. I don't have a teaching certificate. But for subjects that I know, I can help some kids. Sure sure, I'm not the pro-level rockstar tutor, but ... so? We're talking about algebra here, guys. So go out there and help some kids!
ImMitchell ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 20:14:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm tutoring college math right now. It's not easy to remember stuff as well as the students when they just had the class and still be expected to teach them.
Oasiis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:06:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a 3rd year University engineering student, and I know a few people in high school that ask me to help them on their math homework. I always make sure to ask them the subject they are working on before I go to help them, not for curiosity sake, but because I need to brush up on that shit before I can help the adequately. They always say I'm a good tutor, but that's only because I'm allowed to brush up on it before I go over. I know being an actual tutor would probably be pretty tough.
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 16:36:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
bralgreer ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:03:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Welding at our ISD was the biggest program. People would switch classes around to get into Welding.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:06:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
bralgreer ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:10:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Intermediate School District. Trade skills like Welding, Automotive, PC Tech are taught as well as CAD, Machining, a Health Occupations class and a Early Childhood class.
thezep ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:30:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just the hours that welders work sometimes is enough to put me off. Sometimes I need to stick a couple pieces of square tube together with my harbor freight welder but that doesn't make me a professional welder...just the thought of trying to run these perfect beads for 12 hours a day...not thanks
vanilleexquise ยท 111 points ยท Posted at 15:07:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Singing!!!! Oh my god, singing!!!! SINGING!!!
You've got some really good professional ones and you've got people who can't sing for shit but think they're all that since they got paid once because the community theatre was desperate!!!
I know this woman (more of an acquaintance) who calls herself a singer, model and actress, and she tries so hard to act sultry and sexy when she sings, but her voice is all over the place!!
She sang La Vie En Rose once at this club, I honestly felt like crawling up my own backside!!! CRINGE
imnotpaidenough ยท 30 points ยท Posted at 16:06:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My Sis-in-law thinks she's all hot shit. Semi-decent voice, but nowhere near good enough for the praise she gives herself. So when i hear her singing, i love pointing out spots where her pitch is all wrong. Now, I can't sing for shit, but i am definitely not tone deaf
musicalfeet ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 22:48:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hey just because you can't sing doesn't mean you don't have musical talent! :P
I can't sing on pitch for beans because I have no ability to control my voice at all (no idea how to work those vocal chords I guess), but I play a stringed instrument and would wager my pitch/hearing is a lot sharper than most ;)
imnotpaidenough ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:13:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'll agree with you there. I play guitar
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 17:35:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've been singing my entire life. And I can't tell you how many times I hear "why don't you make more music?" Or "why don't you sing out in public more?"
Well. I have crippling anxiety a lot of the time. I would prefer to go sing karaoke with my friends and have fun. And becoming a professional singer is a lot harder than it's worth for me. I'd rather sing and have fun in my car and record music at my leisure.
It's so difficult to sing professionally. No thanks.
RulerOf ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:00:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Try a Barbershop quartet.
It's a lot easier to get over your anxiety with three other people supporting your part ;)
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:08:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm too selfish to share the spotlight lol. And I hate being in public singing.
ManWhoKilledHitler ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 04:15:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's okay, you can say that you don't want to be in a Barbershop quartet because it's kinda weird and you don't like the hats.
ConstableBlimeyChips ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 18:58:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I feel like singing is one of those skills where an normal person has no idea of the difference between a highly talented professional and a gifted amateur unless they compared them directly.
I was reminded of this when I was recently watching the making of the original production of Miss Saigon. If you're not familiar with the history of that show; in order to find the lead actress for the role of Kim they had auditions around the world and they purposely tried to find an unknown.
The first auditions all sounded OK to layman-me but then they got to Lea Salonga (who got the lead role) and Monique Wilson (who got the understudy for the lead role) and the difference is like night and day between them and the earlier singers.
vanilleexquise ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 19:37:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Funny, I was just watching a video of the Miss Saigon rehearsals with Lea Salonga yesterday! That girl is in a completely different league, the clarity in her voice is unmatched.
aeiluindae ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:59:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Speaking as a decent enough amateur, I'm right with you on "my god the pros are good at this". I get quite a bit of praise from people if I get cajoled into singing outside of a choral setting and I can certainly perform some types of music quite well. And then there's the director of the choir I'm in, or the people who performed solos for the performance of the Messiah my brother and I saw over Christmas. They're nothing special in professional music, but they're light-years ahead of people like me. It's true with so many things. You don't know how far you have to go until you've started on the journey. That's why I'm taking vocal lessons. And always finding a harder piano piece to learn.
Sans-Contrefacon ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:20:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My god, my friend thinks just because she's pretty and asian she can be a Kpop star. I asked her what are her back up plans and she told me "Idol in Japan!" "And what's your plan C?" "Actor! Cause I'm so kawaii! Nya!" "And your plan D?" "Singer duhh!" Bitch can't even sing.
ThatKennedy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:09:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's why when I do karaoke I always default to do a death metal cover of whatever the song is. I can't sing but I can drunkenly growl so fuck it.
TheCatcherOfThePie ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:21:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Even growling and screaming takes some work to do without fucking up your vocal cords.
ThatKennedy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:59:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
totally true, but I guess when you're drunk technicalities goes out the window.
WinterOfFire ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:10:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lol, I've been told I have a good voice but just because you heard me sing on key/pitch once doesn't mean I have control over my voice. I tried to bail on a karaoke song once because I couldn't find the right key and was mortified... The dj refused to let me off the hook :(
Wrathwilde ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:06:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Karaoke should be outlawed, you know how many good karaoke singers I've ever heard, maybe 5 total. You know how many Karaoke singers were worse than rubbish... 99.999% of them.
kittypuppet ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:26:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I'm learning the hard way. Granted, I never really considered myself to be very good to begin with, but I want to get better and have been trying to lately.
Shit's a lot of work.
Capncrunchie ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:29:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I read somewhere awhile back that everyone has the capability to sing. Probably from this book from s local author called so you want to sing. For some it comes naturally, others not. Plus factor in the sound of people's voice. Someone could have a good sounding voice, but horrible at keeping in key. Knowing your boundaries as a singer is important. Not everyone can sing like Adele. But everyone can sing, but still doesn't mean you can be pro.
33thirtythree ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:21:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can't sing well, but learning and training to sing well is something I have wanted so badly my entire life.
I play(ed) a couple of instruments and have a decent grasp of music theory, but was goofed at by my family growing up so it became kind of a vulnerable thing for me.
I'm in my 30s now and don't have room in the budget for voice lessons. But one day I will figure out a way to make it happen. I don't want fame, wealth, or praise. I want to create sounds with the power to move people and speak to them. I want to orchestrate music that articulates some of the thoughts and experiences I have.
Sigh.
kwbd ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:55:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There are famous singers who can't really sing. Bob Dylan, Kurt Cobain, Fat Mike and many more.
moubliepas ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:22:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
...you sound very bitter.
vanilleexquise ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 17:03:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know it sounds terrible, but honestly, you need to see this woman in real life to understand. I felt so embarrassed for her that night (and I wasn't the only one), I was hoping someone would just come out and tell her that she's not cut out for this (she's thinking of making a living out of it), or at least come back after lessons.
zach2992 ยท 151 points ยท Posted at 14:46:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Back in middle school everyone thought they could easily be a professional rapper.
There's no way all those white kids could all be rappers.
Salt_peanuts ยท 63 points ยท Posted at 17:29:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I saw a mug or tshirt or something once that said "every time you feel bad about yourself, remember someone from your home town is still trying to be a rapper."
PartyPorpoise ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:54:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wow, that does make me feel better.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:21:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Except if you're actually trying to be a rapper. I would imagine that would make you feel even worse.
Wherearemylegs ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 20:13:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
An old friend of mine is a lot slower, mentally, than most. He dreamed of being a professional rapper. He'd go to high school and if he thought of a good rap he would pull out his folder of raps and write it down, no matter what was happening (lunch, lecture, etc.). I was hanging with him one day when he pulls out the folder and I see written in big, bold letters on the front, "RAPES." I inquiry about his rape folder and he tells me that it's meant to be raps and now he understands why everyone gives him weird looks when he pulls it out.
PartyPorpoise ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:55:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I'll give him credit, he actually seemed to be putting some effort into it. It's not like he just expected to become a rapper without work.
bmoviescreamqueen ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:10:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There was one kid in middle school, white as could be, got made fun of for other things. He wanted to be a rapper so bad. Then he passed around demos that allegedly had a song on there about him killing a female student. I didn't see him for a year or two.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:32:48 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Tyler the creator hadnt paved the way for that section of the genre yet lol
Pupazz ยท 20 points ยท Posted at 15:54:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Haha yeah, I remember these guys. These middle class exclusively white English kids doing their best to imitate whatever was hot in the US charts at the time were always damn strange to me. Most of them weren't serious of course, but every now and again you will hear the occasional delusional stray holdout in their 30s practising through an open window, only now they fancy themselves as an MC.
LookingForVheissu ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:24:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know more Han a few had some indie fame there for a while, in the early 00's, but most of them moved on from rapping to other fields in the music industry.
cuphalfphil ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 17:37:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know of at least one guy who is well on his way to becoming a professional rapper
jcskarambit ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:36:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone can rap, technically.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:41:52 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
almost nobody has flow though. or even understands the concept.
Its easy to rhyme words off beat with no meter.
azlef900 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:26:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lyrical miracle spiritual individual
markevens ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:36:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Reminds me of the greatest post ever in /r/hiphopheads.
https://www.reddit.com/r/hiphopheads/comments/1o3vse/daily_discussion_thread_10092013/ccom8d5
pavlovs_log ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:41:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Visit downtown Austin during SXSW. It's not just middle school kids who think they can be a professional rapper. Literally thousands of people who are rappers or part of a rapper's entourage (producer, marketing, "label guy") handing out shitty looking pamphlets with their SoundCloud URL. Dirty 6th is trashed with these pamphlets like it was a ticket tape parade at the end of the night. The vast majority don't even have SXSW gigs booked, they're just out trying to get noticed I guess.
donjulioanejo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:07:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When I was in the third grade I thought that I was gay,
'Cause I could draw, my uncle was, and I kept my room straight.
I told my mom, tears rushing down my face
She's like "Ben you've loved girls since before pre-k, trippin'."
Pigshart ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:06:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair there are some people who started as a joke and are now making a living from touring and shit.
kaiju-taxi ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 18:24:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't know, most "rappers" (they don't rap, they say stupid stuff pretending to be half drunk while an electronic beat plays in the background) have no talent these days anyway.
tooomine ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 16:18:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can do it, though. I'm really good. best I've ver met, actually, and I've been in a lot of circles rapping.
pinstrap ยท 130 points ยท Posted at 15:13:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Play guitar. Just cause you can play CGAF with decent rhythm and write ok lyrics doesn't mean your very good or that you should go on tour. Guitar is really easy to be okay at, that's why it's still one of the most popular instruments, but hard to be great at.
Edit: by being 'great' I don't necessarily mean being a virtuoso of the fretboard (but that too). My comment was mostly directed toward songwriting. It takes a great musical ear to write good songs on the guitar. But, it's very easy to write decent to subpar songs. It doesn't take a lot of time to learn that Em and G sound good together nor does it take a lot of time to tune to drop D and make a heavy metal song. Anyone can learn a few chords and perform them at a coffee shop. This doesn't always mean it's good. In all honesty, coffee shop performers often bore me to death.
Temperment ยท 215 points ยท Posted at 16:46:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Anyway here's Wonderwall
zander345 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:33:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
meme
shifty313 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:58:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nice overused meme.
grow_something ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 17:02:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's my thing, I'm a pretty decent bass guitar player, but there is no way I could do it professionally. I'm actually pretty decent at a lot of things, but I'm not exceptional at anything
fuckyourstuff ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:34:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Jack of all trades, master of none.
IDontReadToS ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:41:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Are you me?
guitargamel ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 19:09:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Playing guitar well is a skill that degrades with time if you don't dedicate time to either. Maintaining is easier than learning initially, but your chops will go to utter crap if all you do is noodle from time to time.
the_leprechauns_anus ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:30:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Every time you are leveling up in one skill, you are leveling down in another.
SG_Dave ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:30:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Word.
I used to be in a band with a classically trained guitarist. I at the time was new to guitar and stuck to pounding out the rhythm to help fill the mid. He just understood the flow, could rip off improvisation at the drop of a hat, and instinctively picked up complex beats/riffs combos.
He went on to play in a local band with a guy who's gone on to compose for films. Neither made a break into the scene beyond pub band. I didn't even further my playing ability (I blame being a teenager who thought he could teach himself without understanding the basics).
I also know a session guitarist who's local band are the fucking dogs bollocks musically, but they can't get a break because they're a little too niche. He practices (obviously when he's not touring/recording) at least 6 hours a day, and still is never happy with his ability.
jvttlus ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 17:27:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
yeah but if you look at the most commercially successful guitarists of the past decades, none of them have been very good at "guitar" by objective standards. cobain, dylan, even guys like page were not guitar virtuosos by any stretch. no one has heard of alan holdsworth, guthrie govan, or any of the speed metal or jazz masters
--lI ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 20:31:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It seems that if you're not going to be great at guitar, then you'd better be a goddamn genius at some other aspect of music if you want to be a professional.
iamsuperflush ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:24:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, but they were good at making music. Page, for example, is an amazing producer. Just listen to When the Levee Breaks.
ALexusOhHaiNyan ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 00:17:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
But plenty of people have heard of Hendrix, Clapton, Vaughn, Allman, Mayer, etc.
And most people haven't heard of Rachel Farrell and her multi octave voice when they think of great singers.
Because technique aint shit unless you can move people and speed metal is more about dazzling men than moving everyone. That's why Joe Satriani's most well known song is a love song.
the_leprechauns_anus ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:29:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A lot of it is a timing and generational issue.
A_Gentle_Taco ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:58:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Same with drums. Harder to learn than guitar. But my bandmates never believed me until we put them behind the set and they froze.
TheCatcherOfThePie ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:06:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I play guitar, and my guitar teacher teaches drums as well as guitar. He decided to give me a few lessons on the drums so I could learn to appreciate the importance of keeping good time. It took me about 40 minutes to get the basic 4/4 rhythm down properly, and he said that it wasn't unusual for people to take an entire hour lesson before they could play that one simple beat.
ALexusOhHaiNyan ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:30:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Eh. What are you guys teens? Yeah, if your just getting started, I suppose.
I had no problem getting into drums, but with that being said - it's because it's the only instrument you can practice without the instrument. I reckon I worked out rudimentary independence once or twice when I needed to kill time sitting down. Personally - drum rolls are where I stop and dedicated drummers start in my opinion. I don't think I'd even bother with that shit show without some pads to soften the blow, literally.
ASDMEL ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:43:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well, that's more than enough to go on tour and with some luck be succesful. Noone cares if you're actually great in playing guitar, noone will notice anyway. Outside of probably metal and jazz there is no need for great guitar players.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:30:54 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone wants to Bon Iver, but no one wants to be dumped and move into the woods to run away from their problems.
Lionel_Herkabe ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:01:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I had to take an into guitar class to pass HS and that shit is HARD to get the hang of (especially without any music education background). The class gave me a new appreciation for the guitar and music as a whole
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:05:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, I think that pretty much any industrious person can learn to play the guitar very well from a technical standpoint. Writing good songs is much harder because the qualities that make a song "good" are pretty abstract and the skill it takes isn't necessarily one that improves with practice. It really is a gift that you have or don't have.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:43:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
i play IDGAF
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 18:19:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You should need a license to buy a guitar, I swear to God
Taipers_4_days ยท 69 points ยท Posted at 14:57:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Auto repair.
Aside from the weirdly over complicated designs that some companies come up with, cars are exposed to the elements constantly. Think a bolt that has been exposed to the elements for 10+ years is going to come off easy? Think again.
In addition this this, specifications are things you absolutely need to take seriously. Things aren't just "good enough" when you're dealing with a 2,000 pound projectile.
Too many people have not just a blatant disregard for their vehicles safety, but almost an utter contempt for it.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:55:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I actually think the problem is that most people just believe a car is some perpetual motion machine that never needs maintenance or care. I was asked to look at a ladies car who complained there was a screeching sound when she braked the car. I am not a mechanic in anyway. I checked the break pads and there were no break pads. She had worn through the entire break pad and now the brake calipers were grinding into the brake disc. Like holy shit are you trying to kill your car, yourself, and everyone around you.
Taipers_4_days ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:00:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've never seen anything like that but I've seen people who inflate their tires to something crazy like 80PSI because they think it will give them better fuel economy. It's like they can't understand what a blowout is.
jcskarambit ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:35:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My wife had her tires at four different pressures one of which was ridiculously high.
We had a discussion about what "proper inflation pressure" meant. I mean these people don't throw out random numbers because it's "good enough".
R3ap3r973 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:11:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Holy shit though have you ever ridden in one of those old road-boats from the '50s with like 100PSI in the tires? It's like you're gliding on air.
Taipers_4_days ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:59:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Unfortunately no, but I've always wanted to drive a car from the 50s.
R3ap3r973 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:09:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My own experience was in a '57 Bel Air. Steering wheel's the size of a manhole cover. It had suspension from heaven and a V-8 from hell. 10/10 would recommend.
lagwagonlead ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:46:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm an ex aircraft mechanic. My room mate is a super old dude who has never turned a wrench in his life. He's also pretty broke so when his brakes started squealing I told him I'd do all four for a case of beer. He said he'd like to watch me and I thought nothing of it, sure. When I got to a bolt which wasn't budging with my 12" ratchet he went into a nearly rageful panic, telling me that I've probably just cost him thousands in repairs for getting stuck. The fuck? I need a bigger fucking bar, and what the fuck extra would it cost you for having them finish the job anyway? A minute later and it was removed. I was stunned at his reaction though. I will no longer be offering my services to him.
Taipers_4_days ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 21:59:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just imagine his reaction if you used a torch to heat the bolt. You probably would have gotten sprayed with a fire extinguisher!
Waspkeeper ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:54:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Mouse milk is amazing for those bolts.
rangemaster ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:50:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Alternatively: PB Blaster and a blowtorch.
Waspkeeper ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:33:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Love me some pb blaster.
U238Th234Pa234U234 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:37:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Kroil all day erryday
AlonsoFerrari8 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:12:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
*4,000 lb
oldnyoung ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:19:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm struggling with 8 bolts that have been exposed to the elements for 7 years. I've gotten 2 of them out. Fuck caliper bracket bolts.
not_mantiteo ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:11:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've come to greatly respect auto mechanics in the past year. No one realizes how scary cars actually are. We're all driving 1-2 ton pieces of metal at 60+ mph every day and most of the time, the vehicle is perfectly fine. It's crazy. The responsibility is so great when it comes to fixing cars.
benhadhundredsshapow ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:42:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And usually that exposed bolt has about 3000 different things in the access path of whatever tool you are using to remove it. Frustrating as hell.
Also, people really have no idea how much money mechanics spend on their tools. Can easily be over 100K over the career of a mechanic and that's an employed one not someone that owns their own shop.
tslc144 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:40:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How true this is is quite insane,my dad easily has 20kโฌ worth of tools /equipment and he isn't even a pro mechanic
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:35:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
benhadhundredsshapow ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:07:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Probably true. I stay away from my vehicle's engine mechanics, just don't want to deal with all the bullshit. Changing any of the hoses/lines or air filter? Sure. When I start having to take shit apart to get to other shit to take it apart? Fuck that, that's why they have pros.
iarecylon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:05:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"You don't need to measure the gap on the spark plug. It's not like that matters. They just want to sell you that stupid ring thing."
The above quote is why my ex husband was never again allowed to touch my car, and why I started to learn.
If you're gonna work on a machine that depends on a whole bunch of pieces doing lots of things in a specific, rapid pattern in order to transport you safely to your destination- read. The. Damned. Instructions.
Ogremagis ยท 31 points ยท Posted at 18:38:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am probably going to get downvoted into oblivion for this but politics: I am absolutely disgusted by the amount of laypeople who say that making policy is easy and that anyone can balance a checkbook.
Also every possible policy change that goes wrong people ''knew it all along that this was a bad idea'' (quoting half my family here) whereas if it goes right they never mention it again (confirmation bias is a thing people).
iffnotnowhen ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:59:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yes! I study politics and work with non profits. I'm blown away by the number of people (friends, family, redditers) I interact with who seem to have absolutely no idea how the government actually works. Lots of people also can't seem to grasp the reverse invectives and unintentional effects of overly simplistic policies.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:45:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I agree. Politics is balancing the safety of others with economic growth with environmental concerns with cultural and social expectations with your own personal ideals. All while playing the long game because you don't have your job forever and you don't want to fuck over your colleagues too much to where no one will work with you again.
It's constant juggling of complex, highly nuanced variables. And the average layman who has none of that power or any of those responsibilities thinks surely they know all the answers.
ManWhoKilledHitler ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:11:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I agree but having worked with politicians, I'm amazed how incompetent most of them are. If it wasn't for their staff constantly firefighting after every screw up, most of these clowns wouldn't last a single term.
The really surprising part is how many of them aren't actually good at politics! I don't expect them to be experts on health or education but you would think the art of politics is something they would have studied and refined for themselves. In many cases, they're pretty clueless about that as well. I often wondered how they had got this far (elected to the UK House of Commons).
ComicBookCatLady ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:05:11 on April 22, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not even just on a professional level, I'm finishing up my degree in political science & economics and am yet to explain this to anyone without them explaining why every policy they've heard of (via the Daily Fail) is wrong and how the way they'd have solved the problems better.
Tried recently to explain change in voting patterns and demographics to my dad and was shouted down because apparently the in depth research I've been studying in the area pales in comparison to an article he seen in The Sun. =/
Ogremagis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:08:47 on April 22, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
you literally replied to a post that was 2 months old?
ComicBookCatLady ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:55:33 on April 22, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh dear, got sucked down an askreddit rabbit hole and didn't realise how far back I'd gone!
arbitrarycharacters ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:31:05 on April 22, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It happens. I too came here from the future. Let us return to our own time.
bowenoutofstyle ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 16:14:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Graphic Design. "I can use the quick-select brush to put your head on a cat's body, so I can definitely design your company's logo."
CDNChaoZ ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:17:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Too true. If you know Photoshop you must automatically know how to design a brochure or website.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:46:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My graphic design teacher told us flat out on the first day "You know nothing of graphic design, but the more you learn, the worse you will think you are, when the opposite is true," and my God he was right. As I progressed I disliked my work more and more, even though other people were saying that I was the best in class
CDNChaoZ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:26:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I guess it's a good thing I hate the stuff I produce then.
John_Farrier ยท 90 points ยท Posted at 17:24:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a librarian: finding quality information.
No, not everything is available on the Internet, let alone the World Wide Web, and your ability to search even that is awful.
Please stop by the reference desk. We really can help you.
zomb1 ยท 22 points ยท Posted at 19:17:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can you give a few examples? I work in academia, and the only time I ask librarians for help is when I cannot locate a book/journal that I already know of.
Mittee1 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 02:37:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have many tertiary students who don't know about Google scholar, or basic search engine searching techniques like using quotes and *
Edit: I'm a librarian and a Uni student
John_Farrier ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 03:36:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
We can make subscription databases find stuff that you didn't know existed. We can do that faster and more effectively than most people because we use them all the time.
We can find information that is completely non-digital. Right now, I'm helping a professor compile for students local ethnography resources, almost all of which have no web presence at all.
jamesfordsawyer ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 22:57:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So much this. These folks are curators of information. Ask for help! It's not going down as a black mark on your credit report or something.
soulfuljuice ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 19:08:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Seriously, your reference librarian can make the research process a lot easier. They can find the materials you need quickly and are often knowledgeable about many topics.
Mittee1 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 02:41:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
People don't realise that you actually have to study to be a librarian! There's also shit loads of reader's advisory courses we have to go on to keep up with searching techniques, new software / databases etc.
11415142513152119 ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 21:55:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
ok
[deleted] ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 23:02:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
SenseiZarn ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 01:03:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It isn't.
"The Internet" includes services that has nothing to do with "the World Wide Web". For instance FTP sites and darknet sites.
VekeltheMan ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 20:30:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sooooooo true.
briannasaurusrex92 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:52:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can you give some examples of things that can't be found on the internet/web? I'm a bit skeptical.
John_Farrier ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:38:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If we're not talking about on the WWW (as in free access), then library subscription databases have vast sources of information that can't be found with a quick Google search--everything from lawnmower engine repair manuals to full-text neuroscience journal articles. There are audio books, comics, movies, and documentaries that you can download onto your phone, quickly, easily, and free.
Just one example: have you ever browsed through the database WorldCat? I don't mean the free one that you can find on the WWW, but the subscription-level one that libraries have. You can find almost any book anywhere in the US. And with interlibrary loan, you can get that book. I've used ILL to read--for free, mind you--very obscure comic books. I've used it to find periodical articles that barely exist in print and have no web existence whatsoever.
And all of this is without even touching upon the extremely specialized fields of genealogical, medical, and law librarianship. There, the gap between a Google search and the information that is actually available is gargantuan.
TazzzTM ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 15:45:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Play professional sports
โSadly though, it comes as a rude surprise to many athletes yearning for a professional sports career to learn that the odds against success are astronomically high. Approximately 1 percent of NCAA menโs basketball players and 2 percent of NCAA football players are drafted by NBA or NFL teams โ and just being drafted is no assurance of a successful professional career. โStudent-athletesโ whose sole and now failed objective was to make the pros suddenly find themselves in a world that demands skills their universities did not require them to learn.โ
ncaa.org
JacobJT ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:24:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That sounds low. I've heard 6% for NBA and 20 for NFL.
Aior ยท 56 points ยท Posted at 13:57:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Developers often think they know everything about computers and so they're good system administrators. No, they're not. Let us admins do our work.
crabber338 ยท 19 points ยท Posted at 15:57:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
One of our clients was in deep trouble because their entire 'IT department' was just developers that could reinstall windows. They willy nilly improved webapps and didn't consider the impact or the stability of these changes. When stuff started crashing the company literally had no way to process shipments for a week we had to get involved. The poor 'production servers' looked like development boxes someone would have in their bedroom!
I've worked with a lot of great developers, and they could be great at their job... their focus is simply different. A sysadmin focuses on uptime. You simply cannot ignore years of experience dealing with sysadmin issues. It's pretty common for people without experience to buy the cheapest crap possible and then wonder why everything runs like molasses. No! A desktop with 32GB of RAM is not a good substitute for a rack server.
terminusest ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:01:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well put. The focus is very different and one of the challenges in the 'devops' world is for both developers and sysadmin/ops people to get good, clear communication and respect.
Anyways, why run on a server or even a desktop? Run it on a laptop, having a battery in addition to power cord is kind of like redundant power right?
Aior ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:09:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Had a junior developer say that to me, I died a little inside that day.
terminusest ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:17:46 on January 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Absolutely - sadly not surprised I'm not the only one who has seen that offered as a 'solution' for running an internal web 'app' and its database.
crabber338 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:58:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Actually they had a UPS on it :) hahahah
terminusest ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:15:18 on January 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sadly appropriate. Probably got it at Best Buy!
eatonsht ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:38:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Whenever there is a problem everyone always starts with "It's the database that is messed up " No bro, it's your shitty code. How many times do I have to show you how to do your job before you believe me
WanderingSpaceHopper ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:45:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do you really get devs like that? I work for a pretty large company with around 200 devs on site and honestly I haven't heard one of them wanting to meddle with IT's workings. That shit's like black magic to us.
Aior ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:06:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, usually it's the junior guys or a bit more senior guys, but in a smaller company. I think that in a larger company when they see how many people here are running that stuff, they're naturally scared and somewhat see the complexity of the problem.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:47:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a programmer, I know a bit about sysadmin'ing (as most do), enough to know I'd be shit at it, and to be glad there are people like you to do it! I don't think I could handle the stress of being responsible for a server running
[deleted] ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 04:25:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's mostly fine. You only really get stressed when everything explodes without warning. In my experience it happens at 3AM, give or take an hour or so.
MattGeddon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:44:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a developer and I agree with you entirely. I know that I know next to nothing about how our network works but some colleagues will insist on coming up with crazy schemes to fix IT issues. Few of which ever actually work.
DangerChips ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:12:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Usually they learn that they're not good administrators during a release. At least in my experience.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:45:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was a developer who didn't think that. One time I was having problems and the admin said he could give me root so I could fix it myself. I said "no thanks". I knew there was nothing good that could come from me having root on anything other than my test boxes. I also didn't want my phone going off at 2 AM.
JAX830523 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:06:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Don't let software guys touch hardware.
[deleted] ยท 115 points ยท Posted at 12:39:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
kaenneth ยท 60 points ยท Posted at 18:02:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
But badly made porn is my fetish.
A skinny pimply guy, and an obese woman in a dank cheaply wood paneled basement, light by a single bare bulb. Old toys from decades past are piled in the corner; a Teddy Ruxpin with loose tape spilling out stares blankly with his one remaining eye. She is sweating and gasping for breath, while he is struggling to keep it up to shoot the whole thing in one take. Her vagina's 5 o'clock shadow scraping off his psoriasis fakes. A greasy fingerprint from the 'delivered' pizza eaten by the cameraman, who is actually her uncle, on the shaking camera lens; he is talking quietly, giving audible directions the whole time. The skinny guy's nose visibly wrinkles as he goes down on her, but he does it anyway. The final sad dribble of a facial, because he already jerked off that morning while thinking how exciting it will be to be in an actual porno; fade to black as she reaches for the remaining pizza.
pcyr9999 ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 20:52:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
เฒ _เฒ
OfficialFrench_Toast ยท 17 points ยท Posted at 19:49:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You have a way with words.
NebuchanderTheGreat ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:16:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah, he should become a professional writer - seems easy enough.
Consanguineously ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 10:15:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
He has his way with words.
kaenneth ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:36:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I also have severe ADHD; I can write some nice paragraphs, but not a whole proper short story.
viserov ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:34:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'll be in my bunk.
JetstreamRam ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:09:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Writing was mentioned repeatedly in this thread, but sir, I think you have real talent.
vxicepickxv ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:12:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
One of my buddies was "talent" until he was in a car wreck. Now he's a talent scout, editor, and director.
[deleted] ยท 16 points ยท Posted at 16:54:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can vouch for this.
Really hard to get an erection and even harder to cum when they want you to.
remierk ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 22:40:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Story time?
FowelBallz ยท 35 points ยท Posted at 13:08:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Porn is hard.
TriangledCircle ยท 46 points ยท Posted at 13:28:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Have you tried using lube? You will slip into the industry easier.
johannes101 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:25:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Porn is now easy
VeryNaughtyMessiah ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:23:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So you're saying if I covered myself from head to toe in lube, ran onto a porn set, and yelled "WHERE DO I SIGN UP?" They'll give me the job?
Amp4All ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:32:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But sometimes... sometimes, porn is soft.
PokemonMasterAMA ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:30:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's obviously hard. Otherwise it wouldn't go in เฒ โกเฒ
toomanybookstoread ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:47:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do small outfits still make money with all the tube sites out there? Like how does Iam18 make $$$?
Anthony_Padildo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:21:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well, it is. Professional porn however, is not.
FuckBigots5 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:42:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
explain.
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:13:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Homemade versus professional is what he's getting at. It's hard to make money off it but its not hard to make it in the first place. The hard bit is making it to a high quality and marketing it
Anthony_Padildo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:03:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Having sex is easy and setting up a camera is easy. Actually making money from porn videos, however, is really hard, and requires more professional quality which is really difficult to do.
Gameipedia ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:25:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"setting up a camera", as someones whose only film experience is tv production in HS, no camera work is not easy.
Anthony_Padildo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:09:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm talking about amateur quality here. You can just use a $200 camera and mount it on a tripod, which is easy to do but won't give you the best quality.
FuckBigots5 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 23:36:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The order of your first statement read like you were trying to say professional porn was easy but amature pornography was hard.
Smailien ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:23:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
OP: Porn. It's really not easy.
Anthony: Well, it is(easy). Professional porn however, is not(easy).
He phrased it just fine.
FuckBigots5 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 04:33:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
His first statement would indicate that he was agreeing porn was hard. His second would indicate that professional porn was excluded.
Or at least that's how I read it. Then again I don't have to get into a dick size competition over who was at fault for a miscommunication over something as meaningless as "how challenging it is to make porn."
532US661at700 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:50:56 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah you definitely didn't read it wrong. I'm reading it the same way. I can't see the other way.
Smailien ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:17:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well, you read it wrong. I don't get how, but you did.
[deleted] ยท 56 points ยท Posted at 12:27:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
MiguelSalaOp ยท 37 points ยท Posted at 12:37:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't think I can do it, I panic
iwouldhugwonderwoman ยท 32 points ยท Posted at 14:26:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Go to your doc and get 20mg of beta blockers and take it an hour before you have to do a presentation. This has completely changed my career. I went from cold sweats, shakes, and complete nervousness while speaking in front of people to now I get sent around to all of our sister sites to be the "evangelist" of new tech projects we are doing. It's been a life changing discovery for me.
improperlycited ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:39:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So much this. Doctors don't worry about prescribing them because they are not habit forming in any way and is very difficult (if possible at all) to overdose on them. And they are great because they don't give you any sort of mental fog. It just blocks those annoying things that torpedo your natural abilities.
Shrek_Wins ยท 12 points ยท Posted at 17:44:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You can most certainly overdose. Beta blockers affect your heart rate. Definitely consult your doctor.
-Random internet person
improperlycited ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:55:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I guess what I mean is that you won't accidentally overdose. When my doctor prescribed it, he said "start with one. If that isn't effective, take two or three more". Obviously take as recommended, but it's not one of those "really fuck you up if you forget and accidentally take a second dose."
bg-j38 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:34:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Apparently a lot of people use propranolol. I take it for general anxiety. I can see how it would be useful if you had stage fright.
iwouldhugwonderwoman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:48:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's what I use. I use 20-40mg before presentations or meetings with lots of people in them or that may get a little tense. It's a wonder medicine for me.
WanderingSpaceHopper ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:48:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wait this is a thing? I don't fear public speaking at all and can maintain my focus but my body acts up like a little bitch doing it, especially if it's something I'm passionate about (my voice was cracking during my best-man's speech at my best friend's wedding ffs)
iwouldhugwonderwoman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:30:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This is absolutely a thing. I was the same way. I did public speaking all in high school and then something happened my freshman year in college. I wasn't afraid to talk in front of people but my flight/fight response would go crazy and my voice would crack, I'd sweat like crazy and my legs would actually get the shakes. 20-40mg of beta blockers and my fight/flight response is calmed and I'm back in front of 100s of people BSing like nobody's business.
Uncle_Skeeter ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:00:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Buspirone is an amazing drug. Keeps me calm when I'm under pressure. Makes me play kusic better, calms me down when the whole world looks like it's nearing it's end.
33thirtythree ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:25:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is buspirone the same as propranolol?
Uncle_Skeeter ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:46:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Same type of drug, but different chemically. Propanolol is supposed to be way stronger.
nubile_llama ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:38:41 on February 5, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Buspirone is not a beta blocker.
nubile_llama ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:45:49 on February 5, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No. Buspirone is classified as an anti-anxiety medication (anxiolytic).
Propranolol is a beta blocker, which can reduce heart damage after abnormal activity or a heart attack.
Although they can both reduce anxiety, they affect the brain in different ways.
PM_ME_A_SULTRY_LOOK ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 12:40:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
People are often more afraid of public speaking than dying.
TriangledCircle ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:29:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Some people die while public speaking...
PM_ME_A_SULTRY_LOOK ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:05:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
While covered in spiders!
Timidor ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 14:44:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
At that point, dying is just the smart move.
Rac3318 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:43:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Takes a lot of practice. I was never specifically bothered with public speaking but that doesn't mean I was ever particularly good at it until I went to law school and started doing trial practice courses where I literally had to get up and talk in front of people constantly. People treat public speakers differently. They want to believe you're sincere, serious, convincing, and empathetic. It's more than just giving a speech to a room full of people or introducing someone else. Any old schmuck can do that because people don't care. That's all formalities. But to have to get up in front of a room full of people and put on a different face that you show to your friends at the local bar and talk uninterrupted to a room full of people that want to listen to what you have to say but may not want to believe you? That's tough. You have to be aware of how you speak just as much as what you're saying and you need to be aware of social cues and picking up on how an entire room of people is emotionally reacting to what you're saying. You need to be able to be a good speaker. Enunciating well, keeping your accent at the door.
People are scared of public speaking because they don't want to make a fool of themselves. My biggest difficulty was leaving my accent at the door. I grew up in Appalachian Mountains and moved to Boston. I have a very noticeable drawl, and my voice is deep which doesn't help. It took me a long time to not just speak loudly, but clearly in a way that people could understand me past my accent. I got better at cutting out my accent when I needed to but it took me a long time and a lot of practice and saying the same words over and over and over again focusing on how they were said in the community. Also took me a long time to, I suppose, lighten my voice? To not speak so deeply. People, especially older people, have to strain to hear those kind of voices.
ParkourPants ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:49:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Thank you for the quality post. All great points.
While I, too, had to work on making my speaking accent a bit more clear, the biggest issue for me while learning to speak was projecting my voice more and making it more crisp. Growing up, I always had a very soft and mellow voice, so now I also have to sort of switch into my crisp, enunciated, projected public speaking voice.
mrdarthdan ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:42:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This.
I hate when people stand up, and are WAY over the top confident. They tell a stupid joke first. Then they give incoherent analogies that they have to stretch, just so they sound smart.
Being a great public speaker takes a lot of practice. And you MUST be prepared every time you do it. Professional public speakers, who give generally the same speech in a lot of places, still prepare specifically for each and every audience. That it comes off sounding extemporaneous takes tons of work to prepare, along with lots of years of practice.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:10:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
its actually not that hard. everybody can do it. you just need practice and everytime it gets a little easier. i personally am a natural and even when i do get nervous all that happens is my face gets a little red
markevens ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:57:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
OP said things that everything they are pro at, not things everyone is scared to death of.
xshinjixikarix ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:11:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Graphic design, just throw a few images here and retouch this, then put some copy in it and you're done. It's so easy, why can't you do it for me for free?!?!!
StubbFX ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:41:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I want it to 'pop' more! Why won't you make it pop off the screen more!
PCMASTERRACE42069 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:52:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
WHY WON'T YOU MAKE IT GO INTO MY EYEBALLS????
xshinjixikarix ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:47:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There's also a deadline of 20 minutes.
CDNChaoZ ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:16:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
With 20 revisions involved.
JasmF ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:37:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Came here to say this. If you don't know what "kerning" is, you should not be doing graphic design. If you do know what it means, you should be getting paid to do it.
Gameipedia ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:28:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have heard this word, I will know go google it.
EDIT: so its basically type-setting, seems very difficult with regards to high-level work
wardenclyffer ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:27:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Kerning is to care about the space between each character in every word. When designing a logotype (a logo with only letters) can be done manually by moving each character away or closer... what for? Depends on the perception you want to convey: closer characters project more logical or cheap meanings, while wide spaces between means intuitive or exclusive.
I have had problems with paragraph kerning, in which I had to edit it directly in the font file to get it changed automatically in every word on many paragraphs.
This isn't really that complex, but kerning in font design it is a very deep mastery I don't know anything about.
JasmF ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:12:12 on January 26, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Type-setting is getting text into a format. Kerning is the spaces between letters in words (and the spaces between words). When just typing here on the Internet, we have no control over those spaces; it's just typing. The same with body copy in an article; the spaces between the letters are set by the type style (font) being used. But a headline, a logo, a movie title on a poster, these things need to be kerned, and kerned well, yet it seems more and more I see "designers" just typing stuff out and walking away. It's not a hard process, either, at least on a Mac.
[deleted] ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:44:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Music or songwriting. Source: I live in Nashville.
akesh45 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:28:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But everyone here is a amazing singer/song writer! /s
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:50:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The funny thing is there's however many hundreds of thousands of songwriters here and the vast majority suck ass and only play writers nights at Mexican restaurants. It's depressing how over saturated this town is with god awful writers.
akesh45 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:50:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've had a few whine to me about how it's all connections and heirarchy here among the writers....any truth to that.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:26:11 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sadly that does have some truth to it. I know a pretty prominent producer in town who always says "good has nothing to do with it". It's money, connections, and hype. Hype is the big one because you can create something out of nothing if you manage to get the right people hyping about it.
tony-slark ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 17:45:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Professional gaming . every fucking 13 year old thinks he can be one .
AbsolutlyN0thin ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:45:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am pretty good at most games I play, put 1000s of hours into some of them. I know I dont stand a chance againt the pros. The skill gap between myself and the pros is similar to the gap between these kids and myself, they simply do not comprehend how good these guys are.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:53:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They think they are one. I once had a trainer for a job brag about how he has a bad wrist because he is a "professional gamer". shakes head
pussaliah ยท 15 points ยท Posted at 18:03:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be the boss. Its lot harder to supervise and manage employees than most people think.
MyPunsSuck ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:49:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Bah. All you gotta do is crack the whip until the lesser people get in shape. If it's not working, you gotta crack the whip harder
Sixstringkiing ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:13:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sports, music, acting, and art.
TheStaggeringGenius ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 15:45:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Practice medicine. "I've done research online!"
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:45:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When I was in high school, I thought being a doctor is easy. You just go in and look at the patient, write some stuff down and you're done.
rangemaster ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:02:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can only imagine the number of people that go to a doctor with a headache and tell them that "according to the internet, I either have a mild headache, or a brain tumor, which is it?"
subwooferofthehose ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:20:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That fucking Dr. Webb, MD! He's a quack, a charlatan, and a crook! Someone should find him and have him hoisted from the nearest gibbet.
Thepsycoman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:24:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hahaha, I'm a medical student and had to go to the ER recently. While it turned out to be nothing big I was talking to the doctor and she found out I was studying medicine and had the reaction "I bet you instantly considered X,Y and Horrifying Death 9?" "Yep" "Yeah when I was studying I thought I had every problem under the sun anytime I felt a little odd."
Wolfenshire12 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 16:51:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Video Game Reviewer. These people have to trudge through hours and hours of content in order to give a one page or a 10 min review of it.
voracious989 ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 21:11:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I would have to disagree. Video game reviewing in video variety would be pretty easy, play the game to completion and then voice your opinion on the game. I would agree with what you say on the written reviews, those are very hard and painstakingly long.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:42:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
voracious989 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 02:04:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
you are right it really does depend on who you know and watch when it comes to game reviews. there are some very big parallels in review quality. For example total biscuit goes very in depth in reviews showing the video options plus the overall game play mechanics before he gets into the meat and bones of the game. while IGN doesn't go as in depth but gives an okay rundown of the same game but in a shorter quicker video but not as detailed compared to total biscuit.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:27:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I tried some video game reviewing, just to remember the games I played. No one reads them, but they were god fucking awful.
akesh45 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 06:28:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Video game journalism is the arm pit of the field.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:18:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
akesh45 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 07:28:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
exactly...whenever I hear people wax poetically about the virtues of good video game journalism and the evils of biased reviews I laugh......most video game journalist would give they're left nut to work for a major newspaper.
Writing reviews of consumer products that buy ad space from you or even give you the item....no conflict there.
trextra ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 18:01:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
ITT: Most skilled tasks are not necessarily difficult to do, just difficult to do well. And that's why we pay other people to do them when results matter.
PM_Me_Your_Oscars ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:23:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a pro gamer
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 18:40:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Iwouldratheryounot ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:05:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It really is.
It irks me whenever I see some aspiring person who has good intentions, and who thinks they could maybe make a higher-quality video, with more plot, with more substance than Nicki Minaj's Anaconda video or such and such, but then they don't do any real research/ask any professionals/look at example works. Then it produces, often, videos shot with an iphones edited in friggen video star that have no sense of design, no plot, and end up as a lesser-quality Anaconda music video.
However, on rare occasion, there is a diamond in the flood of videos with twenty-something filters, that have the sense to match up the music beats to the plot of the video, some person who uses windows movie maker and doesn't apply that shitty goddamn rainbow effect and some good fellow who took the time to realise the amount of noise grain was ridiculous, and learned how to click 3 buttons in audacity that took away that weird high-pitched-sound in the background.
But ignoring quality, you would have to acknowledge that it's hard for the average layperson to make a video because of inconveniences layered upon more inconveniences. (cost, time, etc)
Soldier4Christ82 ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 20:01:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The thing is that "good" is subjective. For instance, if a person goes into McDonald's expecting filet mignon, it doesn't matter how good their burger tastes, or how perfectly it was prepared, etc, that person is going to be angry that it's not filet mignon, even though they're at a fast food restaurant paying fast food prices. It's good to strive for the best quality you can give your customers, but some people just have ridiculously unrealistic expectations, and therefore can't appreciate things for what they are.
lockedinaroom ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 22:36:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Psychiatry. My sister likes to think she's a therapist. I get an anxiety attack over tuna salad and she just tells me that my thinking isn't rational. No shit. I have a master's degree in Mathematics. I know what's rational and what's not rational. I know freaking out over tuna salad is not rational but my brain can't process that right now.
Walnut156 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 00:00:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You all have inspired me to give up on anything I've ever wanted to do.
Iron_Spike ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 02:52:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Run a small successful small business.
The more successful mine's become, the more yer-doin-it-wrong advice I get from people who have never had one.
I'm a sponge for advice from other businesspeople in my industry, but randos who wanna tell me my job can go kick rocks.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:51:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My dad has a home business, and the amount of patience required for dealing with questions that could be answered in five minutes is almost impossible.
fiftyferalfoxes ยท 11 points ยท Posted at 18:17:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Makeup.
Just because you can put perfect, photo ready makeup on your own face does not mean know how to put it on someone else's face. Everyone has differently shaped faces and features, and some people find that a hard concept to grasp.
bulletm ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:24:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Interesting, I never thought of it like that!
[deleted] ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 15:43:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Degg19 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 22:16:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
its not hard to cook....its just hard to cook for people.
DrunkleDick ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:50:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The one time I offered to make breakfast solo for 10 hungover people in a rented cabin taught me that I'd fucking hate to be a cook. And that was just making a ton of breakfast burritos.
subwooferofthehose ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:18:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just because anyone can cook doesn't mean anyone can be a chef. Put another way, yes, anyone can cook out of a box, or following your grandmother's nephew's second wife's father's secretary's poundcake recipe, but that doesn't make you Martha Fucking Stewart or Bobby Fucking Flay.
Byzantine_Burrito ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:18:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
OMG, yes. So many damn people think cooking is easy. Almost anyone can follow a recipe, my sister can't even do that but will give cooking advice to anyone who'll listen. I'm sorry but seasoning salt and BBQ sauce do not need to be on everything you cook.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:56:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But they need to be on everything I eat.
mrdarthdan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:52:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cooking with a recipe is easy. So easy even I can do it.
Coming up with your own recipes that don't suck is the hard part. It takes a lot of knowledge and practice. You need to know a lot of different techniques, flavor profiles, you need to know what spices go together and on and on and on.
My dad, who used to suck balls at cooking, has spent the last 20 years learning how to do all of the above. He has no other motivation other than the fact that cooking is a kind of therapy for him(helps him forget about the shit he puts up with at work) and that it's always easier to get a meal you want if you cook it yourself.
As for myself, I'm the same way with my photography. I take great pictures and shitty pictures. It's just a hobby.
benhadhundredsshapow ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 17:33:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Playing hockey. Thought I was so great at it growing up playing all the time on the pond and organized house leagues. Always thought man if I just had a chance I could have made it.
Then the fateful day of playing against an ex-AHLer(Dustin Wood) that didn't come close to making the NHL. That guy skated circles around me like I was standing still while doing things with the puck I didn't even know existed. Professional athletes really are incredible at their sport and the reason it can look so easy from afar is because it is to them.
MattGeddon ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:54:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I once watched a charity football (soccer) game that a number of my friends were playing in. All of them in their early to mid twenties and pretty fit guys. On the other team was an 60-year-old former international, they thought their superior fitness would help but they couldn't get anywhere near him. It was especially funny since he barely moved out of the centre circle all game and didn't break into a sweat.
People seem to forget that the other team are also professionals and are trying their best to win the game too.
Viper_ACR ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:58:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think most of the people I know think they can't play hockey for shit because they can't skate. Guys that I play with also know their skillset. I've never heard anyone have any sort of NHL delusion though.
But you are right about AHLers being damn near legendary- I remember seeing a video of some ECHLer skating circles around some guy, and how Cam Janssen (AHL-call up who played for the Devils) would go to open hockey nights with random people, from beginners to NCAA guys, and he'd be far and away the best person on the ice.
benhadhundredsshapow ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:05:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well pretty much everyone in southern Ontario from my generation can skate. I was always better than my friends on the pond - I grew up on it from like age 2. I just always thought I could have made a run at the NHL if my parents had the money to invest in anything other than house league and if I had a chance. I was wrong.
Also assume not "everyone" thinks this way but I am sure enough people do that spent time in the respective sports. The pros make it looks like it's easy on TV and as someone else alluded to, when they are playing each other they all have the same basic skills the strength of which can be quite deceiving until you've actually played against one or in your case, seen a pro play against a non-pro.
More anecdote: I know a couple of guys who were really really good at football. Thought they could make the CFL. Took part of one of the open tryouts for the Argos and were just brutalized.
Viper_ACR ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:44:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think the camera's movements make it look like the players are going so much slower than they are skating in real life.
koalefant ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:11:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
web design, seems anyone who knows html and css calls themselves this. It's not really about knowing how to code that's the problem, it's having an eye or knack for what makes things look beautiful, and not many people have that
zhalo ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:32:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know HTML, CSS, PHP, and MySQL pretty well. I have an eye for websites that look beautiful. But somehow, I cannot actually make a website look beautiful. Just cannot. I can make a website look professional and decent. But to put it all together to create something beautiful, I have to bring in an actual designer. Invariably, the designer won't change a whole lot of my work, but somehow, all of those little changes come together into something beautiful. I have the skills but not the art. I'm just glad that I can see the difference because most people can't.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:41:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
zhalo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:39:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
When I worked corporate, I always had designers on staff. When I went into consulting, I started subbing out design to people who used to work for me or whoever the client already has available (if the client has someone decent, which oftentimes, they don't). Sometimes, I'll contract someone who works for my husband. Most of the designers I've worked with over the last decade are friends and acquaintances who work full time as a designer and are just earning some extra bucks in their spare time working for me.
Joe1972 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:40:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Interpret evidence. Just because you've read a newspaper article on something scientific you now think your opinion should count the same as that of someone who studies that specific phenomenon for a living?
Just get the fuck out of here already. I'm a full time researcher with a shitload of experience in interpreting evidence and would still not necessarily argue with an expert from a different field. Reading a few online pages does NOT equate dedicating your life to the study of a field.
the_old_sock ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:43:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Just staying within your field of speciality. People have such a hard time with this. I'm an RCEP, specializing in cardiac rehabilitation and high-risk population sports therapy. I can't diagnose podiatric problems in a baseball player any more than a chemist can tell you how atmospheric currents work.
Fleury777 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 17:41:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Multitasking, so many think they are good at it, but your not. As you type on your phone you think you're hearing me but you aren't. ... Kory...
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:25:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Manage a staff. People seem to think that being a manager involves firing people who are late, making up arbitrary rules and playing a LOT of solitaire. At most places management also means operations. So you have to schedule and payroll, make sure everyone is actually doing the job they were hired for, keep the quality up, do shipping and receiving, inventory, ordering, etc etc etc. Basically everything involved with running a franchise that isn't standing at the register or cleaning something falls to you.
bicyclemom ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:39:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This. After 30+ years in the IT Industry, I think that people management at the first line level is one of the hardest jobs around. If there's credit to be taken, it goes to the people above you. If there's blame to be doled out, it goes to the front line managers. I have always had great respect for managers who can do the job well.
Sanhael ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 18:29:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Write, in accordance with whatever style is needed for a particular purpose. I write copy for a living, and I invariably get "I'd do it myself, but I don't have the time" right before they try to argue my rate down... when, as often as not? It's something they wrote that I'm being asked to improve upon.
brutal2015 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:45:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most artistic professions such as dancing, musician, acting painting etc.
For every person that is the best dancer, musician or actor in their school or gets a degree in all of the above there are 10,000 other people who are the all of the above.
Darwins_law ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 20:14:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teach!
coleymoleyroley ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:19:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a newish teacher, absolutely this. Everybody thinks about quitting their job and "just teaching" but not a lot of people are going to be great at it!
thadcastled ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:13:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Who in their right mind would think they can do anything professionally? The fuck
[deleted] ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 06:33:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Gotta go with graphic designer. The market in my town is totally flooded with "freelance designers" who know basic photoshop/illustrator and think they can charge insane prices for average work. 90% of their work is designing logos for local bands. The funny part is that all their work looks similar. I know nothing about Illustrator or other design software, but there must be some reason for that.
babyfarmer ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 13:00:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Acting
Pupazz ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 15:37:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be "professional". Far too many times I've heard a manager/boss who can't keep a schedule, take responsibility, and is otherwise inept, incompetent and obstructive have the nerve to criticise the professionalism of others. I know that isn't quite what the OP asks, but its the first thing that came to mind seeing as they seem to think "off the bottom rung" = "beyond reproach" so often.
skullz3001AD ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:20:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I actually don't care how shitty a manager is, as long as they don't consider themselves infallible. If you act like it's your employees' job to be able to roll with your shitty performance, you suck at your job.
iamkuato ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:36:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teach.
Everyone thinks they know what it is to be a teacher. Honestly, I have heard people talk about retiring from their job and becoming a teacher in their golden years - an easy way to keep occupied and give something back.
As if education, licensure, training, and experience don't fit into the equation at all. And as if teaching isn't one of the most challenging and taxing careers available.
Lyeta ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:25:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm in the education field. Folks are always going 'This is what I want to do when I retire! It seems like it's so much fun and so easy, you just talk about history all day!'
I do have a good time at my job. But I also stand 8 hours a day, talk to thousands of people, have to do hours upon hours of research, write incredible numbers of papers, create large numbers of programs (most of which get passed over) and apply for a huge number of grants/support positions.
It's like my job is something frivolous side work and super easy. Just the walking and standing would destroy most people.
MagicOfFriendship ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:42:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone can learn, but not everyone can teach.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:07:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
thats exactly what my teacher did. hes above average in the working hard field though
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:11:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My dad quit his engineering job to be a teacher. My god does that poor man have so much work now.
iamkuato ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:38:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Funny - I work with a guy who did that. He lost his girlfriend cause of his new work hours.
Hope that's not your dad. :)
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:46:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Haha, I too hope my dad didn't have a girlfriend on the side! :)
[deleted] ยท -8 points ยท Posted at 17:55:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
iamkuato ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:57:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Case in point. Maybe check some data on how much time teachers work. Anecdotes are not data.
thunderhawk227 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:33:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can dig that. Your probably right on the data side if it....maybe. However, my buddies seem to see this in every school they worked at. I'll have to ask them again if it has changed. But they still agree that most teachers are babies about it.
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 17:44:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not necessarily "professional", but I've always found it funny how almost all guys think they just instinctively know how to grill. Like, proud about being completely lost in the kitchen, but think they're the absolute master of the grill.
Nah dude, throwing a boneless chicken breast onto a propane grill and flipping it once or twice doesn't make you some kind of master. Outdoor cooking is still cooking and almost all basic principles apply to both equally.
subwooferofthehose ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:22:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
and those are the barbecues I don't go to.
"Would you like some more chicken?"
"This was chicken? I thought it was rawhide..."
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:12:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
tbh it all tastes good to me. even if its a little burnt it still tastes good
MrHaddad1213 ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 19:53:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
ITT: don't be anything.
Theres_A_FAP_4_That ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 15:55:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Masseuse. Every can rub a shoulder, or blast a foot with thumbs, but it's hard to really give a good massage that gets the job done.
throwawayblue69 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 06:43:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've been told by many girls that I have magic hands. But holy shit, to do that for several hours a day, 5+ days a week? No thanks. I might be pretty great for 10 - 15 minutes but by then my hands and arms are done son. How do people keep that up for an hour+ for a single appointment? And don't get me started on how much I hate using oils...But it's all worth it when it turns from massage to sex haha
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:32:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
throwawayblue69 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:51:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Calm down buddy I was referring to the sex that happens after I give massages not what happens in a professional setting lol. The sex that comes after my massages is pretty much the only reason I give them in the first place.
Theres_A_FAP_4_That ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:07:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Get a load of Goody Two-Shits over here.
CANT_TRUST_ISIS ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:38:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Music. My degree is worthless :'(
Darkred28 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:37:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Politics. (At least, i'm focusing on American politics.)
We honestly all believe all politicians are idiots who can't get anything right. If they're idiots, we're fucking retards because we're the one who got them elected.
These guys have trained for the position and we have to realize, they don't have as much power as we think they do. If they wanted to do something, they'd have a long process to get things done. It's long on purpose so people don't just willy-nilly pass bills. Do you know how long the process is for the president to pass a bill? It takes fucking forever. They have to pass (IIRC) four stops in the House of Representatives and see if everything is okay with everyone, then it has to go through the Senate to see if it's okay in there. The thing is, even on the first stop in either place, that bill can easily be thrown away. Even on the last stop, if it seems good and ready to go, they take a vote and if it doesn't sound right to the majority, it's trashed. Plus, considering that the current Congress (House and Senate) are so divided in their mindsets on what's best for them rather than the people, they can't get anything done.
These guys wanted the job and we gave it to them. It's stressful to all hell, they have to make sure everything goes right for everyone. Now, don't get me wrong, there are major, MAJOR, idiots who could have done something to prevent what had happened. coughFlintWaterCrisiscough. But overall, things take forever to happen, if you honestly want to take the job, by all means, go ahead and run for office, just remember it's not as easy as people believe because of all the laws, regulations, and lack of power you have.
Here, maybe this'll help get my point across further for things over in Washington: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFroMQlKiag
Juzey ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:51:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
YouTube. Yes, anyone can upload a video and put it on YouTube. But if you don't make incredibly good videos consistently, or do but don't promote them, you'll be lucky to get 100 subscribers. And making a video takes a lot more time than most people realise - the editing alone can take hours.
thepartyandafter ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:45:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Take photos
You have no idea how many people think they can buy a DSLR and instantly take photos they pay $100 and up for. The amount of people who tell me "Oh yeah, I'm gonna buy a cannon 5Dmk3 and just take the photos myself"
Dude, just buying "the best" camera won't make your photos better if you don't understand how to properly take a photo or even edit them after you do. Most people shoot in Automatic mode and just increase the contrast on it in Picassa.
Soldier4Christ82 ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 19:50:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What you meant to say is take photos well.
Literally anyone can take photos, and so long as they aren't a professional photographer who is charging other people for their photos, what do you care what method they prefer to take them?
ArchBishopJosh ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 19:28:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most adult males think they are amazing at 3 things...
Most adult males are wrong.
subwooferofthehose ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:23:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a decent driver. I am pretty damn good in the sack.
I'm terribad at poker.
remierk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:08:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Same here, when I tell people I don't gamble they think it's a moral thing, it's because I know for a fact I'm going to lose my money.
zacree ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:19:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Paint a wall.
You can definitely paint your house yourself. The whole damn thing.
But the difference between you and some guy they call "Fuzzy" who has been doing it for thirty years? It's ridiculous.
Fuzzy can paint a block of apartments in a day. You did your bathroom and your hand started hurting.
Witetrashman ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 21:48:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teaching. It's easy to do terribly. Very hard to get it right.
SnakPak_ ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 21:55:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
From a ton of photos on Facebook, I'd say modeling. As a kid I did some little commercial stuff for Target back in the day, and smiling is hard.
AxmxZ ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 22:04:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
If you are an immigrant: interpreting.
Every halfway proficient immigrant has probably been asked by their older family members to interpret for them. "Well, this was easy!" they think, buoyed by their aptitude in a low-pressure situation with no quality control. "Why don't I do that for a living?"
I dunno, how about your unintelligible accent? poor memory? slow reaction time? the fact that your 'translation' is just a string of calques?
And that's how one gets court interpreters with 20 years' experience casually translating "driving while impaired" to a defendant as "driving in a poorly functioning car" during arraignment.
musclelicious ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 23:37:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Professional wrestler. Just because they are not really beating each other up, does not mean you can be a wrestler.
leonidaus ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 02:47:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Rap. A lot of people dismiss rap music as mindless chanting, but it takes real musical skill to construct/write verses and execute them alongside the beat. Flow is SO underrated - sounds easy, but if you recorded yourself and listened to it you'd likely sound like shit.
Snuffy1717 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 04:11:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teach. Have you spent the vast majority of 8 hours talking to 7th graders? It's an exhausting grind knowing that everything you say and do is being picked up by them and changing who they are / who they'll become. Not to mention you go home and have to plan/mark for the next day... Or knowing that you teach kids whose parents are completely fucking nuts, so as much damage as you try to undo in a day, they're doing home and getting screwed up again. It's a rough gig.
But then you get those moments where a kid looks at you, and you know that you've changed their lives. Those are the ones that make it worthwhile.
martininkorea ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:05:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I feel ya! I teach elementary kids and it's stressful at times. It's worse when idiotic parents complain about shit that didn't happen. I'd like to see a few of those parents try teaching for a day... I'm sure they'd crack!
HotPakiAunts ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 04:15:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Become a rapper. A lot of wordplay, syllables, tongue twisters, puns come into it. There's songs with substance, music with meanings & then, there's young thug.
cptfastidio ยท 13 points ยท Posted at 17:56:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Bartend. At least at a high level.
It's like saying you can pour a cereal bowl, so you can be a chef...
TenMinutesToDowntown ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:41:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My friend said he got a second job being a bartender to make some extra money. I asked if he had any specialty drinks that he likes to make, and he said he didn't, but he'd make whatever. I asked him for a margarita and to have full access to my small liquor cabinet. He reached for the vodka.
Nope.
Gameipedia ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:23:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I dont drink but even i know the base for margaritas isnt vodka, like wtf. I googled what it was, tequila, makes sense, both are of Hispanic origin, I think
cptfastidio ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:59:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm assuming his place of work wasn't one with much of a reputation.
TenMinutesToDowntown ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:08:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I assume he just opened beer bottles for people.
bjsy92 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:44:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
IS that not tend bar?
jaehoony ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:21:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Your job can be replaced by a vending machine.
cptfastidio ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:58:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Or you don't go to decent bars.
jaehoony ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:10:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can you tell me what a good bartender can do that a vending machine can't?
cptfastidio ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:49:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Gain someone's confidence and trust.
..and wink.
jaehoony ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:30:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I fully trust vending machine to dispense drinks properly and I don't need a wink from a bartender.
[deleted] ยท 10 points ยท Posted at 16:12:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Social media advisor/consultant. Because you have an account does not make you a marketing expert.
zhalo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:22:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There are so many people out there who think they can build a Facebook page with 100k followers, and that's their entire marketing plan. No writing skills. No graphic design skills. No marketing or demographic research. Etc.
CDNChaoZ ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:14:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Conversely while I recognize certain expertise is required, I really don't see how someone can make a full time job out of it for a small to midsize business.
mistofolees ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:31:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Small business - no. Medium business - yes. I think that small businesses would be better off hiring someone who could handle some admin work in addition to knowing how to market on social media. For a medium size business you could absolutely have someone full time, but it would be important for them to also be a good content creator/writer for maintaining the blog and website, as well as someone who knows a bit of code to update the website. So in other words, when you're hiring for small or medium companies you have to be able to find someone who can wear a few different hats.
akesh45 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:25:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Usually they are a contractor and handle multiple business at once.
Unknown895 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:53:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Home renovations! The weekend worker, the guy who thinks he can do it all but ends up spending more because he's needs someone to come fix what he fucked up
Cassandj ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:14:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That. My father is a professional and he built our house and did a very fine job. Many of our friends have done it too. Well, I can't tell you how many times he's told me he'd never buy their house because they did such a poor job.
DrunkleDick ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:13:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's me right now. I have a background in it so it won't need to be redone, I'm just regretting not paying someone because I dislike the work. It's a great reminder why I never went past the apprentice stage.
MpVpRb ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 16:50:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Paint
..a house, a room, etc
I was trained by a top professional, and can do it better than most, but not nearly as good as my teacher
The quality of work I see frequently, even in hotels or other commercial buildings, is atrocious beyond belief
My wife thinks she can paint. I try really hard to be kind to her as I take the brush and say "I'll take it from here"
acronymsbotherme2 ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:06:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My husband is a house painter and it is amazing how many people will build a very expensive new house then try to do the staining/painting themselves. DIY painters are much like amateur photographers, not good, but no one will tell them.
ringhkyl000 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:15:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How do you tell if it's bad?
MpVpRb ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:26:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you know how to do it, it's obvious
Sloppily getting wall paint on wood trim, hinges or other hardware, finish so rough it feels like sandpaper, blotchy and uneven coverage, uneven texture, the wrong kind of paint for the job, poor surface preparation, painting over grease and dirt, cracking, bubbling, peeling, etc...
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:29:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lol you just described my brother in laws house. Good it's awful.
My dad paints on the side, he charges pitance because HE LOVES IT. I've never met a man who loved just painting houses. He will by some vodka and just get on with the job, maybe play music.
He use to take me along on school holidays.
ringhkyl000 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:56:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
From that description my wall look pretty good. But my doors, phew. Those are bad. Lol.
Livetheuniverse ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:34:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeeeeees. I too was naive to think painting was easy..until I went into that line of work. I like to say anyone can paint...but not everyone can paint well.
After a while bad paint jobs become obvious to you...you can never un see it wherever you go, restaurants hotels homes..what I notice most is 'weak brush strokes' on corners and trim.
EDIT: Forgot to mention that my sister and her husband painted their whole house a few years ago and I cringe everytime I'm there. The excess paint drips on some of those walls make you wonder..
CylonGlitch ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:41:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am not a professional but a perfectionist when it comes to painting. A friend of mine was flabbergasted that it took me weeks to paint my whole house myself. He said that he and his kids painted their entire interior in an afternoon. Once I visited his house, I understood why.
BM_3K ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:08:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
my dad spent the majority of his career building houses and painting is something he takes very seriously. when its time to repaint a room or some siding he is fucking meticulous and doesn't settle for anything but the best. painting is also something that he says he would refuse to do professionally because its too damn hard to do good work at he pace that's expected.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 14:24:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a teacher.
wompratfever ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 13:42:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
stuntman/ all around lady killer/ full time badass
t1gerrr ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:10:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Singing.
Horrified101 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:27:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Singing. You may like to sing in karaoke, but it doesn't mean you can sing professionally.
UnsungZer0 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:47:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
General Manager of a professional sports team.
Just because you think you can make a trade does not mean it will happen.
Call_me_Cassius ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:45:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cook. Congratulations Helen, your eggs benedict was delicious, but you're not a three-star chef.
jbrkarlen12 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:52:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Every Dad (aka my dad) who thinks that carpentry, landscaping, plumbing, electricity, and car work is an innate skill for all men. You're a lawyer Dad not Bob the Builder.
Anthony_Padildo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:35:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lol, I was obsessed with that show as a kid.
DrunkleDick ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:08:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My grandpa is a carpenter so I got to grow up being his apprentice and learning aspects of all those manly jobs. I can do them, but I'm fucking hating it. Shit was a lot cooler when I was the apprentice, getting paid, and not stressing about fucking up my property.
I'm gonna finish renovating this house(my first) then I'm fucking done being Bob the Builder.
subwooferofthehose ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:22:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can we sue it?
Yes we can!
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:01:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Make jewelry. I know so many white girls in their 20s that have a "jewelry business". Buying string and a pendant from a supplier on Etsy, making a necklace out of said pendant and string, then selling said necklace in your own Etsy store does not make you a jewelry designer.
flashbang4you ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:15:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Professional triangle player in a band/orchestra. Looks easy to do, but there can be complicated rhythms that will make your head spin
zierka ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:21:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
photography.
MCKALISTAIR ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:30:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Use Microsoft excel
thunderhawk227 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:57:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I recently applied for a job asking for high knowledge of Excel... I know nothing and start next week...
redvsbluegrif ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:20:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
/r/excel
There are a lot of resources online, especially youtube. Start cracking away.
Also learn VBA so you can pop out macros. Those are very powerful and fun since you can essentially do anything with them if you want to...
MCKALISTAIR ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:49:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I always thought high knowlage of excel was basic calculations and charts.....never have I been so wrong
moneymet ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:31:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I took a small course that had a bit of Excel on the side, so take these advices with some grains of salt. I'm pretty much a beginner.
Make different sheets for different types of information. I'm not sure what you're going to use Excel for, but most documents have information that's rather static, such as percentages. You should probably reference to only one cell with the value instead of just writing the number directly into your calulation. That makes it pretty easy to affect all the cells that use that value of the static cell.
Learn VLOOKUP. It's really powerful early on and looks like magic. It basically takes the value from one cell and compares it to a part of a column you choose. If the value is equal to or is closest(can be changed to exact only), but not under to one of the cells in your column, it will pick the value to the right of that cell. How many cells it is to the right can be written in the function.
^ Works for names too, but not sure how it works if the value is not exact. Works great for functions that needs information on people or things with an ID number.
Say you have 2 sheets, one for orders and one for item information. If you have the ID of the item in the order sheet, you can use that number as the reference number and find the right information in the item info sheet, such as price and weight.
Just ask if something isn't explained well enough.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:28:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Pivot tables are very quick to learn and can be very useful.
Hepcatoy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:31:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Professional event/wedding/party planners.
It takes serious organization, great leadership skills, and an amazing network of associates. It's much more than just making reservations and picking colors.
senatorskeletor ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:36:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh, and this is the season for this answer: Political campaigns. Your surefire strategy for winning is stupid and will not work.
I used to work on campaigns, and there are a ton of things that go into campaign decisions. Not all of them are smart, but the regular dumbfuck on the street is almost always overconfident and almost always wrong.
My favorite example of this is when political journalists run a campaign or run for office themselves. It always goes incredibly badly, and you can see their demeanor change as they realize it's not so easy after all.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:51:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think a lot of reddit thinks delivering packages is easy. But you have to find up to 200 places a day, then find the right package per house in a ton of other packages in your truck. And you can't get dyslexic at all or you'll have misdeliveries. And you have to do it all in a small time-frame.
NoelBuddy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:46:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In general the supposed unskilled manual labor jobs tend to be underestimated. 'Anybody can do it' and yet the attrition rate for new hires would indicate that's not exactly true.
tatanka_truck ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 17:52:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Graphic Design
MotherJoanHazy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:03:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Proofreading/editing. People think that just because they got a 2:1 in English and "proofread" their friends' essays at uni, they can call themselves a professional and charge knock-down fees. Maybe they "have an eye" for spotting typos in their daily newspaper? "Proofreader". Teach middle school English? "Proofreader". Read 10 romance novels a month? "Proofreader". Once won the school prize for spelling? "Proofreader". There are so many blatant charlatans out there, and it's only worsened with the rise of self-publishing.
There is so much more to the profession than spotting typos and fixing the odd spelling mistake โ it takes a skilled, highly trained, highly experienced (in a wide variety of styles and genres) professional to edit and/or proofread text to a high and publishable standard. There are rules upon rules upon hidden rules, and if you don't yet know them and how to implement them, you don't yet have the right to call yourself a proofreader.
good4damichigander ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 04:18:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a multi-published author, i.e., a person who is admittedly a better writer than 99% of people out there, I would never attempt to be my own editor or proofreader. I think people don't get that it's an entirely different skill set, using an entirely different part of the brain, and that just because you can slog through writing a novel with some cohesion, that doesn't mean you are in any way qualified to edit or proofread anything. I have been super fucking nice to every editor I've ever worked with for that reason.
MotherJoanHazy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:57:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You, my friend, are my kind of author! Writers like you make my life so much easier, and more rewarding. By the way, congrats on all of your publishing success โ I've done this job for more than 10 years, but I'm always in awe of writers who are able (and have the talent and discipline) to keep turning out great work. :)
WhaddaClassyDame ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:07:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photographer.
Downvotes-Inc ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:35:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Modeling. There's more to it than being really, really good looking.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:29:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So many ugly models going around.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:38:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Computers
CylonGlitch ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:43:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Generally, computers are easy. Maintain, fix problems, fixing hardware problems, etc... generally easy. But then again, I design the computer systems and chips, so I might be a little jaded.
UmUpvotesPlease ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 20:55:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write
reversedcoconut ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:07:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Make up. No you are no professional just because you can wing an eyeliner on your eyes.
YourMumsCuntWhiskers ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 22:09:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Negotiating. Just because you've seen a few shit episodes of American Pickers or those twats who run a pawn shop on TV dosn't mean your a fucking expert about negotiation techniques and haggling. From my experience over the years, there are proper ways to go about it and for those who take an interest let me shed some light on the situation. First of all I run a vintage-retro shop (Proof: CoolStuffWeirdThings. Com) in Nashville which i buy, sell and trade. I have dealt with everthing from high end clients to the regular joe-shmoe coming into the shop to sell thier grandma's porcelain doll collection for a bag of weed. Never a dull moment around here. I price everything here in the shop correctly the first time as to not have to deal with the misinformed and misguided. DON'T EVER approach me with an item and say for example, "I will give you 5$ for this". You do not tell me what your going to pay for my product. This will not only get your shit thrown in the trash right in front of you, but a tutorial on bargaining tips as well as a thorough cussing out. Instead say, "Would you be willing to take 5$ for this?" or "Would you be willing to come down on the price?". You catch more flies with sugar than you do vinegar. Volume selling is also the key here. The more you spend, the better deals you get. I tend to get offensive about this subject because there is so much work that goes into the shop that some people are just clueless about. Would you walk up to the register at Chipotle and tell them your only going to give them 2 dollars for your burrito? Do you ask the employee at Target "Where do you get all this stuff?". The cool and weird stuff i sell, you can't just buy at walmart and takes not only the right eye but lots of footwork and establishing connections. Rent is expensive for brick and mortar, electricity, inventory etc. Think about these things before trying to lowball somebody and maybe you get that killer deal on a piece of treasure that will bring you total happiness. Or, you can just get the fuck out of my shop and tell your friends!
CommentCalligraphy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:09:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teaching. A class might tolerate you for an hour, but the real fun begins when they get to know you. Knowing how to manage a classroom is far more difficult than a guestlesson might lead you to believe.
A lot of the times the kids are only being decent because they respect their teacher, who is also in the room.
Jaws76 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:14:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Farming is brutal labor.....next time you visit a winery venture out to beyond the tasting rooms and into the fields.
No guarantee that your toil will result in anything. A highly respectable and ancient profession
Nosferatii ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:27:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teach
MagicOfFriendship ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:40:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So, in short, everything I want to do in my life is hard?
_StatesTheObvious ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:54:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sing/be a musician. No, no you don't sound as good as you think. Ask Simon and he'll tell you how dreadful that was.
Merovean ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:57:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
PHOTOSHOP and hell photography in general. We've created a generation of deluded that are pretty certain their snapshots off their iphones are fucking gold.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:16:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
finish drywall.
CylonGlitch ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:45:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Getting that stuff flat, smooth and without seam is so hard.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:22:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Did it for 5 years full time, trained by a guy who did it for 35, I can spot DIY taping in a splitsecond. Drywall taping is an art form.
Kingdomcome321 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 00:38:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Haircuts
mamaluigi2064 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:07:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Act.
Look at Disney Channel nowadays.
Eveningroovers ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:13:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cooking. As a professional Chef I get this all the time.
peepeevajayjay ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:15:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's a tough job. And you don't get paid enough for the shitty parts like working a lot of holidays, crappy hours and picky people.
Mycotoxicjoy ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:24:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Science, idiots who've got an 8th grade education and has read a listicle about climate change or organic food or vaccines will try to cram some bullshit down your throat at parties and conversations that should be reasonable become a one sided lecture from some mothbreather who couldn't tell an antibody from a hole in the wall
I Fucking Love Science has ruined a generation and makes a ton of people think that being a scientist is fun and easy when the truth of the matter is that cool discoveries and experiments are really rare and if you are the researcher that makes that cool discovery, you will grow to hate it as it becomes the one thing you are known for and practically get you pigeonholed into only discussing your cool discovery from 20 years ago. Real scientists are cool, but it's pretty boring work with a real hit of ecstasy when your paper gets accepted by a major journal
Humidibot ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:26:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teaching. Everyone has "expert"-level opinions, but most people's experience with school ended when they graduated from one.
maythemayflyfly ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 01:36:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography.
panzerkampfwagen ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 02:05:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teach. Everyone thinks that they could be a teacher.
The fact that there's good and bad teachers shows this to be a lie.
MilesSand ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:39:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Tech support. Or anything involving a computer really
paulcosca ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 03:50:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Acting. I've heard your auditions, amateur voice actors. A lot of them are very very rough.
KupoGrounds ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 05:47:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Voice acting. Being into anime/manga, I see a lot of people think they have the talent to become a voice actor (not gonna lie, I thought so too). WAY harder than people make it out to be.
Pirate2012 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:40:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
agreed. Once upon a time, I directed/produced 30sec TV Commercials, involving Voice Talent.
I would give them a direction like "on the 3rd sentence, shave 1/4 a second off, and add more weight to the 2nd sentence. Then build into sentence 3, trail down, then back up but add 1/2 second to that line"
and then watch them do just that. Then repeat it for another take.
Sometimes close your eyes and just listen to the audio of a national level TV or Radio spot. There's talent there. Plus of course having a voice that demands to be 'heard' and can be unique.
MyPunsSuck ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 06:24:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Philosophy. You need ironclad critical thinking, and the creativity to apply it. Armchair philosophers just spout nonsense and think it's deep just because it is hard to understand
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 07:16:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Play video games. It's way harder and more time consuming than just playing games all day.
ibefunlkg ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 07:18:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cook like a professional in a timely manner and taste like it's supposed to
Bluphasetechie ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 09:28:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography. Difference between a Professional and Amateur? The ablity to get that shot again and again. Not just one in a hundred, with auto focus and auto setting and so forth. I am an amateur who captures some good shots. I can not make a living this way. But in some ways not being the pro at a wedding can net some beautiful shots.
I sit down and am happy with my progress. Take it away pro photographers.
Pyroscoped ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 09:35:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Killing someone. Everyone is so conditioned to the hyper lethal protagonist so prevalent in modern media, and the ease with which they dispatch their enemies, that the public (especially adolescents greatly exposed to FPS's COD or similar) take it to mean that such combat in reality is as clean cut and easy.
On a similar note, most harbour the delusion that they could take down a hostile gunman without undue difficulty
I_am_the_one123 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:59:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Also, they'll probably choke on pulling the trigger.
mralistair ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 11:39:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality
[deleted] ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 13:18:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Doctors with a Cirrus or Beech Bonanza who think they're Chuck Yeager.
They're the ones undershooting runways in East Overshoe, Montana and killing everyone in their hunting party.
SexyPotatoKing ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:48:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The beechcraft doesn't hold the name Doctor killer for nothing.. They tend to be horrible pilots because they do not or barely maintain the skills required.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:15:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That, and once you work your ass off for that long and become a doctor everything else becomes a game of "how hard can it be?"
eatonsht ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:39:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'll be a doctor soon. Can't wait to buy a beech
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 14:58:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sum Ting Wong, PhD
merlin21111 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:34:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teach. Most people seem to think that we put on videos and babysit all day but in reality being an engaging and interactive teacher while meeting the various needs of 20+ kids while managing behaviors for 8 hours straight everyday is very difficult.
MajorTom11 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:50:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a Police Officer. No, you wouldn't last a day.
freedomfries76 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:10:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But "Facebook lawyers" who watched law and order know how to... Those people piss me off, yes, there are some bad cops but 99.9% are good and do it because they care about their community. They sure as hell aren't doing it for the money. And in some of these shootings where they love to bitch and complain and say "it was just a toy" well here is what you can get a wal mart http://www.walmart.com/ip/H-K-USP-CO2-.177-BB-Pistol/22171921 Even on a bright sunny day, and the suspect pulls it out slowly, it's impossible to tell until you actually inspect it. But, I can understand why they don't take that chance.
hawaiian0n ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 19:40:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
ITT: we are all probably bad at everything in life.
GlassHouses8 ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 16:11:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Social Media Marketing... they think it's free and then wonder why they can't get anyone to respond to their content.
tacojohn48 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:59:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The worst is social media marketing for multi level marketing companies. You can tell someone starts posting questions that are designed to create interactions so that their other posts get put in more people's news feeds. "What have you learned on YouTube" or "I hate doing dishes, what's your least liked chore"
zhalo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:27:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I immediately delete any friend who gets involved in MLM just so that I don't have to see this nonsense. Just nope right out of that.
cheekychick04 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 14:57:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Own a bar.
m1ndcr1me ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:04:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So much god damn cleaning...
sonia72quebec ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:36:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
...and having to deal with drunk people all the time...
af_0 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:35:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But I was gonna call it "puzzles"!
jgodin03 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:11:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Why would you call it "puzzle"?
af_0 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:18:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Exactly.
LookingForVheissu ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:29:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I want to lump working for Starbucks in here. People always comment on how friendly Starbucks is, or how unfriendly. Either your barista has plastered a fake smile on, or they finally broke down from he stress.
oneiro ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 13:26:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Doctor, because Google and WebMD.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 14:56:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
You have to be careful and do your research, but honestly, I have had to figure out every single health problem I've had in the last few years on my own. If it's not something very simple doctors just shrug and say "I dunno but it's probably ok." It drives me up the wall. Everything was an easy fix, but I had to figure that fix out myself from trial and error / the internet.
These things included a magnesium deficiency, a vitamin b deficiency, a poor reaction to simple carbs, and a host of psychosomatic issues that psychologists claimed were medical, medical doctors claimed were mental, and mysteriously instantly disappeared when I started taking SSRI's. It's not fun to feel like you're dying all the time, go to the doctor once a week and have an unnecessary emergency room visit about once a year and have everyone say "No, I'm pretty sure you're imagining that. But not in a way I can do anything about. You just have to live with it."
wat_da_ell ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 19:14:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yup, I'm sure all of those self diagnoses are 100% correct and real
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 20:21:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well if a problem goes away when I treat for that problem then I'm going to assume I was right. Forgive me for not wanting to live with palpitations, chest pain, difficulty breathing, shakiness, twitchy eyes, blurry vision, and the sensation that my heart was struggling to beat.
wat_da_ell ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:59:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is it possible that these symptoms are all in your head? You even said you improved with SSRIs.
ax8l ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:53:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
They would be the worst doctor ever:
"Man comes with slight headache.
Diagnosis: Cancer"
"Broken leg
Diagnosis: cancer"
Gorgo1993 ยท 6 points ยท Posted at 16:06:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Roofing, hair styling, tax preparation. If you don't hire someone to do these things for you, you are making a mistake.
barrydingal ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 17:38:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Tax preparation? If all you have is a W-2, there's no reason to hire anyone to do your taxes for you.
Gorgo1993 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:58:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You have no idea how complex other people's taxes can be.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:10:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[removed]
barrydingal ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 18:32:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's why I said if
intrinsicmess ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 18:11:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sex.
[deleted] ยท 7 points ยท Posted at 12:36:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Every mom thinks they are a doctor
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:14:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Moms are pretty invincible, man. They're never wrong.
Mrs_Blobcat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:41:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Umm perhaps at times, but I know my kids better than they do. Daughter #2 used to have a cycle of tonsillitis;
Go back to week 1. This happened for nigh on a year from aged 2 to 3 when they finally agreed to take the damn things out. But I would ring the Dr and explain all the above and they would read her notes and still insist on just giving her calpol. The last time they did this, I took her straight to the med centre. She proceeded to vomit over the receptionist and her desk, the duty nurse, the Dr and the Student Dr who was watching the consultations.
For then onwards she had a repeat prescription I could just call in and collect, and, if I was going to be away from home, a bottle with the powder in to make up if needed.
PCMASTERRACE42069 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:53:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And then they make a FB post about how vaccines cause Autism, which is a fancy word for a lack of braincells
[deleted] ยท 9 points ยท Posted at 13:32:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
RJrules64 ยท 21 points ยท Posted at 14:48:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I dunno who your friends are, but where I live, coding is seen to be something unobtainable to most people, the exact opposite to this AR question.
bool_idiot_is_true ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 16:09:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Really? While I'll agree coding at a professional level isn't a walk in the park learning to code at a basic level isn't too difficult. Of course the amount of effort it will take comes down to what you want to do with the knowledge. But in a dirt simple language like python it really wouldn't take too long to get the basics down. And once you understand the basics branching out to learn what you want is certainly achievable if you put the hours in. There's plenty of great free resources online just a google away.
RJrules64 ยท 5 points ยท Posted at 16:13:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah absolutely, on a basic level it's quite logical! I spent a couple of months learning basic Java, was great fun. Made a basic 2D platformer game with my own resources etc.
What I'm saying is that most people I know don't realise that on a basic level coding isn't too hard, so even the code for the first gui thing I learnt; a pop-up window, looked like 'crazy hacker mumbo jumbo you're a genius' to someone unwilling to look into it any deeper than the surface level.
bjsy92 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:45:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wish I knew the basics. It seems like another world.
birdsofterrordise ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:57:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have the basics, but there is ZERO way I could even begin to apply for any type of job where python is a required skill. I think that's why there is a little backlash with saying "oh just teach everyone to code because coding is the only way to a worthwhile job!!!1!" Granted, I am teaching myself but I honestly wonder if I will ever be competent enough to not feel like a complete tool applying for a job with it.
pushad ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:35:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
But then there are others who think you can go on Codecademy or take some coding boot camp and get a development job instantly.
MattGeddon ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:46:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Our non-technical staff think that our dev team are some kind of magicians. Which is great because our old boss used to dismiss our estimates on tasks all the time because "it's just adding a few more buttons".
bratzman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:39:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I think it depends. It looks hard from the outside. But after you do some of the basics and it makes sense, that's when you start to get the delusions of grandeur sinking in.
I think a lot of people who've done some very basic thing thinks they know something magic and that they're fantastic at it. But it's only after you've been forced to try yourself properly that you understand how well you can do anything.
Sure, you can make a very simple thing happen. Now what?
It's like playing musical instruments. You may be able to play a song, but that doesn't mean you're any good as a mucisian. I know plenty of people that would never think that they could begin playing. It's just that the ones who have started often write themselves up as either a genius or a failure very quickly. It's only when you start to realise that having some basic competency you're not so good as anyone else that you start to know if you're actually any good.
RJrules64 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:28:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's exactly my point!
No one says they would never be able to start learning an instrument, as most people can do the basics of each instrument easily.
But in my experience, no one thinks the same about coding, because it has this stigma akin to rocket science. Even though it's just as easy to do on a basic level as a musical instrument.
Which is why, based on the people I know, I don't believe coding to be an appropriate answer on this thread.
Thinks_Too_Logically ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:24:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Every college kid who's taken to programming seems to think coding is so simple and once you learn a few basics you can do anything.
No shit it seems like that, college kid, every project/problem you've worked on has been hand crafted to be solvable by someone at your skill level. Most problems in the world are not like that.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:50:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's good that people of this generation can learn how to program easily, and we have nice high level languages for a lot of things, but I hate how every newspaper seems to be saying you can "learn 2 code in 2 weeks" and buy a Lambo with your app store revenue (especially as that requires more business skills than programming prowess)
[deleted] ยท -10 points ยท Posted at 16:21:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Coding is not just hard because its a difficult thing to learn its hard because it is the most mind numbingly boring thing i can think of. You literaly sit and Wright lines for hours on end like a school punishment but as a job
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 21:52:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you're doing front end work maybe, but if you're working on something interesting, it's quite enjoyable IMO working out how to solve the problem (though once you have done so, implementing it is sometimes a lot of boring typing)
akesh45 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:24:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Coding is like guitar....it's not fun until your good.
yumny ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 15:59:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Writing. Most people think they could cram out a novel or write for a magazine on a whim, but writing is seriously hard and takes a lot of time and practice. Writing books in particular is a lengthy, tedious operation with a small success rate.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:15:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
wittlewadio ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:05:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I can confirm. Threw my life away because I thought being in challenger will most likely get me into the pro scene. Burned out, never got contacted by any org. Its hard, really fucking hard.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:16:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sony Vegas video editing
Iwouldratheryounot ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:17:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Editing 101:
-Switch keyframe interpolation to fast.
-Find out what parent layers are for.
-Find out what layer styles are
thenswitchtoaftereffectsedit: formatting
five edits later: screw formatting
herhighnessvictoria ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:26:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Graphic design. Just because you have Photoshop does not mean you have the eye for design.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:35:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Psychotherapy.
Yes, you can give friends a shoulder to cry on and advice when they need it, but it's very different when you need to maintain a compassionate indifference to a complete stranger.
codeninja ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:37:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've interviewed twenty "senior programmers" who can't write code to save their life. They can't answer basic questions about the language they claim to be experts in.
CylonGlitch ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:50:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I interviewed a woman who was a professional programmer in "C" and a dozen other languages. The interview kept spiraling down and down to where I asked, "Write 'Hello World'" in 'C' and she couldn't do it. I then said, write it in any language. Again couldn't do it. I asked her why she has these languages on her resume, she said, "I have HEARD of them."
/facepalm
gcbeehler5 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:37:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Slightly off topic, but I've run into this a lot and it made me think of it. People who are highly trained and proficient in one thing (think a lawyer or a doctor) who think they must be good at everything then. I brought up lawyers and doctors, because typically they are very good at law or at medicine, but often lack sound business sense.
So while you may be a great lawyer or highly skilled surgeon, typically you'll be better off if you find someone who is similarly skilled in finance and business manage that side of the business for you. Which lets you focus on your great skill, and continue to produce money.
TL;DR - You might be an expert at ONE thing, but that doesn't make you an expert at ALL things.
YeahJeetz ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:45:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Window tinting for cars. Just go to a professional.
SirJaxAlot ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:46:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Graphic Design/Art Direction/Video Editing. Look I have been doing this for 20 fucking years. You and your nephew are fucking idiots.
BaronWombat ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:52:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Game designer. People understand the skills needed to make art and write code, but somehow think they can imagine a coherent and engaging game experience with a sentence or two. Liking movies doesn't turn you into JJ Abrams either.
Gameipedia ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:42:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
doing this as college major, learning jack of all parts, I know I'm only meh at some parts and have not even learned others, but you are so fucking right
BaronWombat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:11:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Have been doing this a VERY long time, it's a great career and you learn new things all the time, because we really are the jack of all parts, and master of fitting them all together. Enjoy!
Mr_Rotch ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:54:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do Let's Plays on youtube and get insanely popular. You think it'd be kind of a cake-walk. Just have to play games and talk, but nope. When you start to do it and play a game, and then realize you have absolutely nothing to talk about and just focus on playing.
WavesRKewl ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:23:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Or when you realize that you don't get thousands of views just by uploading your first video.
WavesRKewl ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:23:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Or when you realize that you don't get thousands of views just by uploading your first video.
Mr_Rotch ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:05:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That too. And realize you have no idea how to get noticed.
CylonGlitch ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:52:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You could help my son, he has around 70 videos now and could use extra views. :D
Swiftly_Fat
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:56:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Live streaming video games
Drunkasarous ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:56:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A lot of young kids want to be a professional video gamer
I thought I was hot shit at starcraft 2 back in 2011-2012, went to MLG twice. Got my ass handed to me.
thunderhawk227 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:01:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Serious question. How exactly did you lose badly? I love games, but I know little about pro-gaming.
Drunkasarous ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:21:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I was mid masters in Wings of Liberty(original starcraft 2 when it came out, and if you dont know starcraft Masters was the top 2% of the ranked population) I ended up playing against a low level pro and promptly lost 0-2 in a Bo3
chlnaturester ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:01:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography. I constantly get asked what kind of camera in have or recommend. I'm nice and give them suggestions. A month or so later they always ask why their photos dobt look as good as the ones I took for them. Uhh maybe cause I've had years of experience, training, trial and error. Photography isn't about pressing a button. It boggles the mind at hiw many people don't know this.
AnotherPint ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:09:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write.
rustandbones ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:11:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Painting/Spackle work, everyone thinks they know how and it usually comes out like doodoo...
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:12:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fighting. Your four bar fights does not make you Roy Jones. And your kickboxing class doesn't make you Anderson Silva either. True talent takes years of dedication to cultivate.
Napervillian ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:16:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Architecture.
IceTurtle4 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:17:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
build a website. Seriously businesses - it's your online presence. Can't tell you how many shitty pre-made theme websites I come across that look terrible and are glitchy as f&*k.
ChickenPaaahm ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:21:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a cook/chef.
I was a cook for 15 years and have never seen so many people call themselves "chefs" who have never worked a day in their life in a real restaurant.
The vast majority of cooking jobs are blue collar, physically draining jobs. Insane hours, almost no breaks, and extreme physical and mental stress. When my non-cook friends would complain about their days, I would show them my burns, cuts, and bruises and of course my outrageously small paycheck.
In my opinion, there has never been a reality TV show that even comes close to working in an American restaurant (and I'm talking here about the 95% that aren't fine dining). You never see people sweating through their clothes, running around like maniacs, screaming in Spanglish at each other, and then passing out in their cars after a 16 hour shift only to drag their asses back in the next morning and do it all over again.
Lots of people can cook, sure. But "being" a cook is a totally different story.
sjleader ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:25:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Recording Studio owner/producer/engineer here: Recording and mixing music. Garage band is great, recording at home is great, but don't release it as "professional."
zwart27 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:26:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Livestream games, if you go on twitch and choose a popular game you will see an endless stream of 1/0 viewer streams.
I_am_the_one123 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:02:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
And if you play a unpopular game you'll wont get a lot of viewers.
zwart27 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:13:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If you play a unpopular game you're going to need to advertise it differently
LadyMatrix ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:29:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write in a comprehensive meaningful manner using the right grammar and syntax rules.
Gameipedia ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:44:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know for a fact when i write im using some grammar/syntax wrong that i dont know exists, glad its not my job or field of study
bex238 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:34:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Graphic design. It seems simple, but that's why it's so complicated.
Warptheform ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:36:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Design video games. Having been in the industry for over 15 years, I cannot tell you how many people assume that you can just smoke a fat blunt and come up with some amazing game ideas. I WILL BE A GAMING GENIUS! It's a lot of hard work from a team of people, with very few exceptions.
In truth, the story ideas I hear from wannabe game designers are awful half-realized bits of tripe that they think will impress their friends. "OMG my friends and I would TOTALLY play that game!" is a phrase I hear all the time.
A well designed game is best defined as an elegantly connected set of systems combined with stellar usability, which is then tied to a compelling story. Trust me, if the systems (everything from weapons or user controlled items, physics, game balance, game economy, and a ton of other systems) and usability (controls, menu systems, etc) suck, it doesn't matter how good the story is.
thunderhawk227 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:38:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Bone surgery. Just seems like yucky carpentry.
ForGayjeezy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:41:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography, not alot of people realize what goes into a good picture
ryandg ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:44:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Web development
_Khorosho_ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:45:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a DJ is more then pressing play.
farmingdale ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:49:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
last place I went to in the city the DJ was a girl with an ipad who did nothing except plug in said ipad and take a few requests
_Khorosho_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:00:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
She wasn't a Dj she was a jukebox.
Buckets_Mcswag ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:39:05 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So what else goes into being a dj?
zynthesis1981 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:48:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography
spamalama ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:53:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Graphic design.
It took years of training to finish design jobs in the time and quality necessary. But no, it's not worth the money and someones cousin does it for free once you show drafts.
Fuck that.
Became an engineer and nobody doubts my skills now. Took a similar time to get on track for the job.
Fuck design, and especially clients in that field.
Haleljacob ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:57:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Talk about grammar or linguistics.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:58:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Bartending
ATTDOTT ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:58:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Exercise and give personal training tips.
Tatersaladftw ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 17:59:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drive/Race cars. You may think you're hot shit, but until you get into a vehicle being manipulated by someone who has the skills to wring one out, you realize you know how to drive for shit. Professional drivers are fucking impressive.
TurnLeftRepeat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:23:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So very true.
zhalo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:37:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My husband used to rally race. Just the difference in his driving behavior on regular roads shows me this is true. I got into the passenger side with him driving once at an actual race track. Once. He had to stop three quarters of the way round. Like I said, once.
whoisthisagain ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:00:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Professional comedy.
LifeOnMars73 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:07:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
YouTube. '' hey guys, let's play Minecraft! ''
BecstarBVB ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:21:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Rescuing/taming horses. Yes, I know you read the Heartland books as a kid and you go to the races but you just can't tame and train a rescued/wild/abused horse. EVEN if it's a baby one or it's small so "can't hurt me".
I had a completely unhandled, feral two year old horse over the summer, I had to put signs up saying he was dangerous because I was constantly stopping people from trying to get in the field or feed him or try and grab his halter. They were all convinced that he wouldn't hurt them and if they whistled and waved their hands or tried to pat him it would be fine and he'd magically become tame to people because they were a horse whisperer or some bull. As it happens, he has since turned out to be a very sweet, friendly pony, but it took me over 6 months to be able to touch him regularly and lead him around. The poor bugger had been left feral til he was two, when he was cornered, roped down and castrated and he came to me very soon afterwards. He was terrified of humans so every time some moron tried to "help" the progress went back a week.
I told so many people, but no one seemed to understand that it's not like the movies, it takes months, and patience, and a lot of expertise and experience.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:22:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography. Seriously. Everyone and heir mother is a photographer.
farmingdale ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:47:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have a camera on my phone, now I am a photographer, suck it
Vanpirate ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:22:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography. People go to school for it but everyone with a phone thinks they can turn it into a profession.
Hihellothisisjerry ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:23:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm surprised nobody has said this yet but anything in the cosmetology field.
farmingdale ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:46:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
like 100% of women do their own all the time. It cant be that hard
Hihellothisisjerry ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:25:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most women don't cut their own hair. Don't wax their own legs, arms eyebrows, etc. coloring your own hair is hard. Lots of women do it anyway and it looks like shit and lasts about 2 weeks. Just cause you can physically do it doesn't mean you can do it correctly. There's a reason it requires a license and a lot of training to get that.
farmingdale ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:54:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
*rubs eyes and walks away
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:23:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fighting. It bothers the shit out of me when I'm watching boxing, MMA, or any other fighting sport and some dipshit is saying "I'd crack him in the mouth!"
Yeah, sport, it's that fucking simple. The years and years of time and effort and focus that these men and women dedicate towards footwork, head movement, etc. will just be completely shattered when you implement your novel plan of "swinging on them."
It's that fucking simple, fat, drunk slob at the bar. Go in there and show 'em how it's done.
andregriffin ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:24:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Live sound engineering. Everyone thinks you can just turn up the vocal endlessly, no matter how loud the guitarist is playing...
Runs_towards_fire ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:24:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Engineering and designing things. Yes, there is crappy design. But the majority of the reason things are the way they are is because they had the same dumb idea as you, tried it, it didn't work, so they moved on to the next idea.
amr0th ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:27:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Physician, save everyone all the time, until you face the realities of the health care system, the patients, your peers etc, etc.
memphisburrito ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:29:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
art
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:32:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Game development. You see it all the time these days because its easy to get cheap laughs ripping on a bad game. "They must have spent a whole 10 minutes on this! I could do better, get it together devs!". It's not easy. At all.
As a developer of terrible games I can assure you that even the worst piece of shit little game you ever played probably took at least 10 hours of coding, artwork, debugging, and testing. Hell, even the shit people rip on, while not good, isn't really that bad. They're usually like Ed Wood level, which puts them significantly ahead of the thousands of Star Wars Holiday Special level bad games out there, and the millions that are even worse than that.
If I had a youtube channel, it'd be about taking games that people rip on and pointing out what makes them interesting, the stuff that worked in a sea of didn't-work.
deltios ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:25:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can confirm. Making a game with a bunch of people myself right now, we're doing our best to make it a proper project from the get-go, but it certainly ain't easy.
FuchsiaGauge ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:38:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In philly? Rap. Every dumb kid walking down the sidewalk is rapping to themselves and think they're amazing just because they can rhyme two words.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:41:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teach - everyone thinks they can do it
WaffIes ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:12:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Make a website. No your wix site doesn't count.
ladylaburnum ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:41:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Singing.
hairybrains ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:01:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photographer. Just because your iPhone 6 takes a nice photo, or you have a dslr and know a bit about photoshop, does not mean you're good enough to go pro.
arcnspuds ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:06:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Make music.
SilverProductions ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:10:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sing.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:16:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Software engineering. Going to stackoverflow and playing copy-pasta isn't enough
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:16:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sing and act.
just_Jackie_Onassis ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:20:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Makeup! For the love of god, I do not want to be recommended to your sister's friend who did that graduation that one time!!
MethodicallyMediocre ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:21:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Economics.
Lily_Foxy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:39:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Their jobs.
Also nearly everyone on deviantart thinking they can draw.
omggrok ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:43:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Poker.
MazarkisWilliams ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:47:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write.
mmmsoap ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:58:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teach.
I think everyone believes because they've had teachers, both bad and good, they understand what goes in to it.
Similarly, a lot of childless people seem to have a ton of opinions on parenting without much field experience to see whether it would work or not.
DarkSideofOZ ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:01:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography. Everyone gets a DSLR and starts trying to cover weddings, then ends up getting sued because they suck and never learned the first thing about exposure, f stop, lighting or anything else.
suzepie ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:17:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write. I do it professionally -- marketing materials, product descriptions, websites, tech help, user guides, UI, you name it. The shit I have to clean up -- after the CEO (or whoever) took their "stab at it" -- is unfathomably bad. Knowing how to use words and how to type does not make you a writer. Leave it to the professionals when you've got a professional job to produce, please.
Dubbihope ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:56:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Is it "do" or "does" after "knowing ... ". You're talking about two actions, so shouldn't the verb be plural?
suzepie ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:38:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Knowing ... does not make you ..." If you remove the details, you see that the verb in that sentence is "knowing," and thus "does" is the correct choice.
95accord ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:44:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Dry walling and crack filling (and I'm not talking about your moms crack - that's easy)
GunDoc ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:46:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My job as a weatherman when they don't like my forecast.
snakkerdudaniel ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:51:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Social Media
Joe_the_Freudian ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:54:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Professional race walking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3GGzq1PIqs
choadsauce ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:56:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Stream video games......you gotta be interesting or your subscriptions will remain in the double digits.
FightClubLeader ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 21:57:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Professional sports. You have no idea how many "country boys" or farmhands think they could, and I quote, "Stop JJ Watt dead in his tracks." Like, what? You're 250 lb I'll give you that but a professional football player is literally paid to beat the shit out of people.
PhiIadelphia_Eagles ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:16:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
C o a c h
pickledpunk21 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:17:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
ref/umpire/officiate.
BalusBubalis ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:22:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write.
BananaWilly ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:22:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Play any professional sport.
otterish ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:38:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
OMG: Photography.
Adurell ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:43:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Play midlane.
Gameipedia ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:50:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
play support
PM_ME_UR_TIT_PMS ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:07:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
House painting. Worked a couple summers for my uncle as a professional painter, and I'd say 60% of the inside work we did was covering up and refinishing the homeowner's half assed attempts at painting a wall. Even beyond that though, everybody and their cousins-uncles-wifes-brother seems to think a white van, two shitty ladders, and a paint sprayer qualifies them. Just look around your baseboard, or where the ceiling meets the wall, and chances are you will see paint where it shouldn't be (ceiling/floor)
Full disclosure: I was fired by my own uncle for f-ing up a job so badly that the homeowner refused to pay.
lendergle ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:31:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As a home owner who has had to call in professionals to refinish my half-assed attempt at painting a wall, I can confirm.
MiracleMan1989 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:01:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Acting.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:31:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
deamont ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:41:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To be fair google is your best friend.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:34:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sell It Works! products. I see a lot of people trying, and no one can do it.
Choplifter ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:54:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Bill Cosby impressions
I_have_an_inkling ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:23:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's not that hard all you need are roofies.
GbyeGirl ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:09:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Handle firearms.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:16:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Work from home. You think it would be amazing but it's hard work. You have to be able to work in your home environment without getting distracted. You have to be able to make and stick to your own schedule while resisting the temptation to just watch Netflix all day. Not everyone can do it. I've seen more people fail than succeed.
Planetoidling ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:21:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Play video games professionally. The players put in ridiculous hours every day to get as good as they are.
dancing_oreos ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:24:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography...
Ryneb ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:24:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Act
onwisconsin1 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:27:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not everyone, but I'm amazed that some parents think they can educating their children in an array of subject in their house better than a group of trained professionals with subject area expertise.
Jump_Around1 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:27:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being in a band.
garfieldsam ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:39:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
After running several all-ages music venues... music. There are a lot lot lot of wannabes who would get more out of it if they just tried to have fun and make art instead of lying to themselves that they can "make it"
moshi24 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:42:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
let's plays
moshi24 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:42:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
let's plays
DevotedCypress ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:49:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Haven't looked very hard, but has anyone mentioned photography? I feel like everyone and their dog can go out and buy a $1500 camera and all of a sudden they're a photographer...no, you bought a camera way above your needs and now take random pictures of shit
peepeevajayjay ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:11:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If that. Often seems like it's a entry level camera with kit lens and they're "natural light" photographers who don't even know enough to know what a reflector does.
ArcanianArcher ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:52:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
ITT: Things that most people don't believe they can do professionally.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:00:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cut their own hair/kid's hair. Bangs are whatever, go ahead cut your own bangs. But yes I can tell you totally did this all by yourself. I see a weight line, choppiness, no blending, bad angles, uneven layers, and don't even get me started on slopping box after box of level 1 black on your hair and now you want ME to get it out magically without frying your already fried hair. Or, me being polite that your hair looks like crap and you proudly say I colored it myself. Oooh, now I get it.
Go ahead though and put a guard on those clippers and cut your man's hair. If you mess that up....well you're on your own. Clipper cuts are easy unless it's a zero fade or more than a few guards' distance.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:04:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In all seriousness though, it's your head do what you want. Just don't think it's easy. Don't even get me started on all the useless crap I had to learn to get state licensed. My cosmetology book has chemistry, electricity, anatomy (why?) Sections. I don't need to know your arm muscle names to wax it. Or how a circuit works to know I gotta push the button on my hairdryer every now and then.
asdialed ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:37:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You're the kind of person I want to do my hair. Not the lady who grabbed my hair, cut the bangs straight across and called it a day.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:46:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know that there are many many terrible hairdressers in the world, but I made an oath to do no hair harm!
Actually, I have a personal oath that I well never intentionally f-up someone's hair no matter how rude or terrible they are to me.
Danger-Wolf ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:02:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write a novel. I'm getting good at writing it the publishing industry is another thing entirely. In one of John Gardner's books on writing, his advice is to either get a low key job that doesn't take up much time or to have a spouse support you financial so you can be a writer as a career. It just isn't financially feasible.
deusdragon ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:02:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
ITT: Fuck your dreams.
PartyPorpoise ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:03:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Teaching. Just because you went to school as a kid doesn't mean you're qualified and you know what it takes. There's a lot of "behind the scenes" work.
Writing. Of any kind, but I'll talk about fiction novels specifically. Everyone who has an idea thinks they can write a great novel, if only they can find the time. But in writing, ideas are nothing. It's all about executing the ideas, and that can be tough. It takes years of practice, you need to know what makes good writing, and you need to break any bad habits you might have. Even once you get good, writing still takes a lot of planning and work. Now say you've finally written something good. Getting published isn't easy.
edditme ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:04:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Bang OP's mom. On the other hand, OP's mom is already a professional.
Jeff_Erton ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:05:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Referee professional sports.
valsnuggets ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:06:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Make websites.
Jake2601 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:08:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography. If you own a decent camera and have a Photography Facebook page, that doesn't make you a photographer.
edditme ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:16:32 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Give medical advice (because they heard something from Oprah, Dr. Oz, Dr. Phil, their neighbour, or some random homeless person hanging around outside the clinic) or set medical policy (i.e. anti-vaxxers). I'm sorry, but if my 7+ years of dedicated medical training aren't up to your standards, why exactly do you keep coming back to see me to figure out your health problems?
It's like dealing with a backseat driver, but much more annoying and dangerous. I don't get paid enough to deal with that shit.
steals-from-kids ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:33:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography.
shaolinallan ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:35:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cooking
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:52:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Writing a book. Without shadow writers, I must add. It's not easy. I spent four years on the manuscript, only to trash it and start over
SladeRiprock ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 02:59:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've got an expensive camera and an iPad I can be a photographer
Sledjoys ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:04:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This thread is pretty informative. Not only have I learned a lot about what it takes to do just about anything, it also makes me wonder if I'm as good at the things I think I am.
crimson-adl ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:09:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cake decorating.
mushbo ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:27:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cook, it's not the same as at home people. We can take a cheap cut of meat and make it into the best you ever had. At home you will pay out the ass for a good cut and probably cook it wrong.
Beezor70 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:35:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography
Charrington87 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:42:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Tennis
Not me, but my brother. He is an avid tennis watcher and he is pretty good at table tennis. Me and my close friend took up playing couple years ago and last week my brother came to watch us and after some time he made fun of us and yelled how we sucked. We invited him for a game next day. You should have seen how frustrated he was. Tennis is much much harder then it looks man.
Glenn5110 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:50:26 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Crack someone's back. Put a friends rib out of place because he fell asleep in a weird position
Amraspalantir ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:53:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a chef. I swear every little shit that made a cupcake at home and watched the food network thinks they can do it now. 80% national dropout rate from culinary school. Of the remaining 20% a miniscule amount remain 2 years after.
bs13690 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:54:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Tech Support. Some customers seem to think all I do is look things up on Google. While Google is a good reference tool, there's more to it than just looking up an error and finding a fix. You have to understand how the fix will affect the system, how to identify the "correct" fix, etc. An issue can also be so vague that you'll find tons of fixes.
Google is no different than a Chilton manual. It's a reference tool but won't tell you everything.
justmaske ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:56:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a secretary. My dads secretary of 15 Years busted her ass day in and day out to make him look good. She made it look so easy the office just about imploded when she retired.
jigglejigglegiggle ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:04:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teaching. Also substitute teaching- its harder then it looks.
CrazyRageMonkey ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:15:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Run a business.
anomalyk ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:16:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Based on the amount of "I'm thinking of going back to be a nurse, maybe as like a retirement job or something" quips I hear on a fairly regular basis, I'm going to say nursing. True I'm biased since I am one, but I hear irritating shit like this on the weekly
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:19:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write. Most people suck at it
FrZnaNmLsRghT ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:22:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teach.
YoureTheManNowCat ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:32:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Psychology.
Yes, I know you took Psych 101. However, not everyone had OCD, Bipolar Disorder or Borderline Personality Disorder
zougie ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:34:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've come to learn that almost everyone on a college campus thinks they can mix drinks really well for some reason...then they give me something that either tastes like gasoline or a gangbang of fruits all blended together and then marinated in sugar water. There is no in-between.
jamaljabrone ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:52:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Parent
compressthesound ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:48:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Theres a lot of responses already that have to do with different creative fields but I would like to add: making good paintings/ art. Now I know art is subjective but I do acrylic abstracts which typically sell pretty quickly and are popular amongst the "I want some art to put over my couch" crowds. I have had friends who have made their own "art" to hang in their houses just to fill space and mostly to save money and most of the time it's shit. Yes you can go to the store and buy canvas and then dump some paint on it but if you don't have at least a bit of raw talent and some understand of the way colors work you will just end up with a chaotic muddy mess which does not look good above your couch!
FerretAres ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:56:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Something tells me I could easily beat these trained professionals."
-Bender B. Rodriguez
Enwinor ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 05:57:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Porn. Even if you're attractive and endowed, there's a lot more to it than that.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:02:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fighting fires. Everybody thinks they can just strap on a pair of boxing gloves and run into a burning building. It ain't that easy.
jennetix ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:05:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a critic.
leggo_my_jhncena_pog ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:05:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Electrical work
Saeta44 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:21:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have been told that my Bachelor's in Psych and Master's in Social Work are "pointless" because they're "soft sciences" (this is true, but I never claimed to be able to do brain surgery) and that "everyone can work with [the mentally ill]."
I'm nearly four years into working at a residential treatment facility. This is a fairly open workplace, hiring wise, but I would never in my life argue that this is a job everyone can do. Family therapy, my next big step up, even less so.
HyperWackoDragon ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 09:48:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I work in group homes. Just about everyone can do the basic tasks but very few people are actually good at working with this population (people with some form of cognitive disability and mental illness). Unfortunately the pay is so low that anyone who is any good at the job moves on to better things. You need a real handle on your own emotions as well as a lot of empathy and an understanding of what is going on in the minds of clients. Lot's of people either burn out because they can't handle the emotional stress or become indifferent and unhelpful because they don't understand what is going on in the clients' minds.
mikeshouse2015 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 06:37:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
sing
doubledouble07 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 07:52:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sing
Jamesizdabitch ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 08:47:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Play the triangle
zamfire ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 09:18:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Rocket League
Prototype_es ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 11:16:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sports. Statistically speaking even if you make it onto a college football team you've got about a 1% chance of getting drafter or signed by an NFL team. Same with basketball. Even lower with baseball because of the farm system
TripleUranium ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:54:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Chances would be higher because of MLB farm system. More teams at various levels increase the chance of a "professional" career because they consider minor leagues pros, even though it's not the big leagues.
noobswag99 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:35:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Badminton. Everyone thinks its easy. Its not. Trust me.
Am semiprofessional badminton player.
Flick1981 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:50:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It is still fun as hell though.
legoeggo323 ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:22:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teach, especially teaching early childhood. Yes, dealing with kindergarten content is not difficult- we all (hopefully) know our ABC's, shapes, colors, and numbers to 100.
What no one is prepared for is the toll it takes on your mind and body. Constantly having to be 'on' for 8 hours at a time can make your brain feel like it's on fire. Not being able to sit down for hours at a time, no matter how your back or your knees are aching. And if you do have a second to sit, it's in a chair meant for someone half your size (and this is coming from a petite woman). Having to switch between two different versions of yourself five days a week and trying to keep those two people separate (not to mention praying that none of the parents ever find out about anything you do in your personal life for fear it might offend them). Having to deal with administration, which can be pleasant if your lucky, but often isn't. Having to know what Johnny is doing while talking to Bobby and Suzie and defusing a situation between Timmy and Jane, simultaneously. And then taking everything home with you at the end of the day to do another few hours of work to make sure you're giving your students the best education possible.
I love it, but it is not a job cut out for everyone, and not as easy as people think.
imranazizi ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:12:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography is the only thing which one can only do if he is experienced !!! but every one thinks he can do it.
foolsdie ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 16:59:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a C level executive at a company.
benno- ยท 8 points ยท Posted at 13:44:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Rap and Hip Hop in general.
The recent resurgence from big names like Kendrick and J Cole inspired a lot of people to begin writing. People seem to miss that rapping isn't just about being able to rhyme words.
However I don't really think its that bad a thing, if people think back to 06(?), Nas released an album called Hip Hop is Dead, and it became apparent that there weren't gonna be any generational talents for a while, but K. and Cole popped up sooner than expected so it's for the best. They kinda saved hip hop in 2010's
iammas13 ยท 23 points ยท Posted at 15:50:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What are you talking about? Hip hop was never close to dead. Throughout the entire 2000's it was one of the most popular genres and it was never struggling. Jay Z, lil wayne, kanye, 50 cent, Outkast, Common, Eminem, and im sure theres much more that I can't think of off the top of my head. Kendrick is absolutely amazing and Cole is pretty good too, but they didnt "save hip hop" or anything like that.
LookingForVheissu ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:28:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There was a lot of talent in the early 00's, but it was mostly turning out shit we'd forget in a few years. Hip-hop was on he radio was pretty boring then. By the mid 00's some interesting people popped up.
M it for all intents and purposes, it seemed like it was going no place for a couple years.
[deleted] ยท -4 points ยท Posted at 15:57:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Bear_Manly ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:28:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No
one_pump_dave ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:37:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So wolf gang is like a bunch of uncreative kids then
voteferpedro ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:14:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
underground.
Gameipedia ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:39:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'll forward by saying the only rap i listen to is Eminem Spose Mackelmore and Watsky for the most part, but kanye is shit, only sings about stupid shit, and is an insult to humanity by being such a self-centered fuck, but the rest of your comment stands
voteferpedro ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 20:12:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It was pretty dead for a few years there when Trap music and Wangster were pushing the charts. It's why Nas made "Hip Hop is Dead" and caused a semi resurgence. Most of us 90's hip hop heads went underground or diversified our focus in to other genres. So in conclusion, Thank you Nas.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:21:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's like everyone doesn't realize MF DOOM has been with us all along.
UnityPunity ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:41:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Shuffle cards
voteferpedro ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:16:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
and it is a diminishing skill over time. Hadn't played cards in like 5 years and tried to do a fancy shuffle from 10 years ago to impress a girl. Yeah, that was a fun game of 52 Pickup.
aezart ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:15:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Can confirm. I feel like I'm the only one in my circle of friends who knows how to properly shuffle. It's especially apparent when we're playing Netrunner or Magic because I'm the one who doesn't wind up with half the cards upside down.
I was trying to learn to be a magician briefly, so that probably helps.
Psyanide13 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:22:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Your friends are noobs.
rebelde_sin_causa ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 15:29:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a police officer, lawyer, or judge. Then again, maybe they all can.
jcskarambit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:38:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lawyer or judge maybe not.
But I've seen some next level assholes in the law enforcement profession that act like high school bullies.
voteferpedro ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:18:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
PD is often a fail into job for many in the armed services. I know of 3 people personally who washed out of the military and are now officers with the local PD's. All were textbook bullies and narsacists growing up.
BowmanTheShowman ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:40:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have a lot of friends who have told me that if their career plans don't work out, they'll "just be a teacher."
Good luck with that.
m1ndcr1me ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:02:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a lawyer. No, you won't make a good lawyer just because you "like to argue." So stop telling me that you should go to law school just because you like being an asshole to your friends and family.
anonoman925 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 16:52:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
With a 50% turnover after 5 yrs - teaching.
Especially in poor areas and Special Ed.
DieScheisse ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 19:46:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Modeling. Ugh. I used to model as a side job and hobby (mostly promo), and I had so many super awkward situations where a female acquaintance would approach me saying they were "ready to get into it too". Then they'd stalk my Facebook and wrote every photographer I worked with. Afterwords they would write me asking why the photographers quoted them a fee and asking what I paid. Sigh. There's no easy way to tell people that photographers only charge you if it doesn't improve their portfolio or they don't want to work with you or you AREN'T MODEL MATERIAL.
Achemaker ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:03:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Smash Bro Melee
Jaws76 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:12:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Law enforcement ...everyone would have "shot the gun outta of the guys hand" or made the "murderer confess."
spetsnazzy ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 23:43:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Directing, writing, producing movies.
Kinda. I'm just bitter because all my friends get to sound smart talking about computer science and medicine while I'm getting a film degree and nobody gives a shit when I try to explain what makes a good movie.
By the way, if you're interested in getting a film degree, quick bit of advice: DON'T DO IT. DO NOT DO IT. DON'T. EVER. It's easily one of the worst decisions I've ever made.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:33:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It sounds like you just made a poor choice. I'm also getting a Film degree and I can say that I love every minute of it, even if it is reading less then enjoyable articles.
I would suggest talking with an academic advisor or something to see if you can change your degree. I switched into Film and regret NOTHING!
countsbeans ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:42:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do accounting, payroll and/or bookkeeping for a business. So many small business owners think that if they go buy that popular off the shelf software, stick it on their computer and Mrs. Business-Owner can balance the cheque book that she can keep the books.
First of all, the ads that say "one click and you're done" and show someone with their feet up on their desk "doing their bookkeeping" they are seriously misleading the public. It takes hours of training annually to know how to use this software properly, and keep certifications.
If bookkeeping and accounting were easy there wouldn't be 2 year college associate degree and 3-4 year bachelor degree programs.
martinis00 ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:38:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a DJ. Just because you programmed an hour of tunes on your iPod for your class reunion, doesn't mean you can DJ for money.
StanMikitasDonuts ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 03:56:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Biologist here. Every damn time vaccines, cancer, GMOs, 'organic foods', stem cells, medical marijuana, recreational marijuana, aliens, and CSI come up on reddit everyone is a scientist and answers are clearly obvious... No.
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:33:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a college chemistry professor (PhD) and work closely the students interested in medical, dental, pharmacy, veterinary school...
Yeah. Most people aren't capable of that. Everyone can get a college degree provided they don't have a severe cognitive disability and the funds to do so. In fact, most people can also find some sort of shitty graduate school to take them even with a 2.8 GPA so most people can even get at least a master's degree.
Getting the GPA requirement, the volunteering, the shadowing, the leadership, and the standardized test scores to even get an interview at a school is NOT something everyone can do. I get students who can barely string together a sentence who want to be a doctor. I have students who can't use a calculator to basic arithmetic who want to be pharmacists. It would be funny if it weren't so fucking sad.
Back2Bach ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:31:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Wallpapering, painting rooms in a house (and refinishing/staining furniture or woodwork).
Soldier4Christ82 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:51:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a nutritionist/dietician. Redditors seem to beg unflinchingly confident they are consummate experts on exactly what others could/should be doing to get in shape, and that because something works for them it surely must work for everyone else, too.
PulsedMedia ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:56:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
not really pertaining to everyone, but in the IT industry every wannabe things they can code.
No, you really cannot. Stay the hell out of the code base, do not come even near!
More common Everyone seems to think they know everything when it comes to "computers". Just because you can use the latest Windows, does not mean you know sh** about datacenter networks or server maintenance.
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:42:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
[deleted]
PulsedMedia ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:10:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Re-read what i posted.
Two different things. One about coding, one about more general IT stuff.
pisshead_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:21:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sports coach.
azog1337 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:18:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Microsoft Excel, most people think that they're professionals if they know a few basic tools, but in reality most know less than 1 % of what excel is capable of.
Gameipedia ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 00:54:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have always thought excel was just a data table thing, apparently you can do math on it, among other way more advanced shit, cool
vxicepickxv ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:45:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
How do I pivot table?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:58:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Work on cars. People think they can just take the head gasket off and rebolt the head back on and go about their day. So many times I've had to take apart everything and start from scratch because "they dont know why it stopped working" just to find out they forgot x y or z in the steps
Mynameisnotdoug ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:02:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Coach or manage a professional sports team.
So many people with literally no exposure to what goes into it think they can make better decisions, trades, etc. than people who have been doing it their entire adult life.
MrFrenchy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:11:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a lawyer.
rachface636 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:24:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone seems to think they'd be the perfect bar owner. But I do book keeping for a living and let me tell you, the second you start questioning people about finances their bar owning dream pretty much sinks.
sparkyman612 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:28:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Kick a football
cd_b ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:29:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Massage. The number of shitty massages I've received that either hurt or go to the other extreme and just tickle is just silly. Apparently I'm quite good at it though, that's what my partner says, hahah. Maybe it's a case of never saying it's a bad blowjob or you'll never get any more - people have only ever had positive feedback about their massaging "skills".
kylew1985 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:29:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Run a bar.
Dunc13 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:30:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drive in the freaking snow.
vxicepickxv ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:53:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's about 4 words too many.
dark_pssnger ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:30:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I live in Las Vegas. There are a lot of people who think they can gamble professionally.
LPT, most people cannot gamble professionally.
pugtasticTime ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:31:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a journalist.
Levitz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:33:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have an enormous respect for the profession, but to a large extent: teaching.
If I were to say, less than 10% of teachers are actually able to put their life and their work apart, the other 90% will mix them.
He is going to treat better the students he likes more and he is going to treat worse the students he doesn't like, that's a given pretty much always.
turn30left ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:33:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a referee or official for a sport.
hullabaloo22 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:35:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a referee for a sports contest.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:37:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Management. A lot of people think they could be great managers but few actually have the ability to manage others and be natural leaders. Which is why you see so many inept managers and micro managers
speedkillz3 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:37:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
male pornstar
pakastanimeatballs ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:38:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Baseball. Everyone who doesn't like/watch it says it's easy because all you do is hit a ball with a stick. Hitting a 90+ MPH fastball is one of the hardest things to do in sports.
Aquabullet ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:42:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Coach a sport. Usually one of the popular ones. Unless you have kids, then you automatically become a professional coach at whatever sport your kid does as well.
D3adkl0wn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:42:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
After seeing some of the renovations people have done themselves in places I've lived, I'd have to say plumbing, electrical, finishing and carpentry work
MagicMan16 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:45:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Kicking field goals. How many people can actually do better than Blair Walsh?
vxicepickxv ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:00:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Right now, I'm going to say 4 people.
LochNessMonocle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:45:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Coach any pro team
TeeReks ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:48:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Porn. Try keeping it up with a dozen dude around you and at least 1 guy getting uncomfortably close to your junk with a camera.
turkeypants ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:50:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Every other job that's not theirs except pro sports, apparently.
contrarian1970 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:50:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sing...most 20 year olds think it's just a matter of doing the verse in a soft breathy way and then belting out the chorus at the top of their lungs. The really great singers did neither of these things. It's all about finding that sweet spot around 50-70% of the volume you are capable of and only going outside of that when the material really demands it. I've also noticed a lot of modern singers sound like they become bored and less connected emotionally to the words by the last minute of the song. These tv shows where singers only do a 90 second snippet of the song make it worse.
Big_Daddy_PDX ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:50:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Multi-tasking
messedupgeneration ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:52:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Microsoft Excel
ArtPhanatic ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:52:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
All these fuckers thinking they're political scientists.
dlbear ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:55:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a psychologist.
TheGreatLesley ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:55:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
HAIR. I spent a lot of time and money in cosmetology school. I can't stand to see unlicensed people doing hair.
vxicepickxv ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:15:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I mostly agree. Dreadlocks should not require as much training as dyes and actually cutting well though.
TheGreatLesley ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:28:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I meant hair in general but I agree, just the same!
loldawg8 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:57:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sleeping. But I really have nothing on koalas.
Gorelore ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:57:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lead a group of people
Father33 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:58:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Coach professional sports.
onyxsamurai ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:59:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Play any professional sport better than the guy on TV.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:00:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
tslc144 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:11:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just out of curiosity , what would you consider being able to play the piano?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:34:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
tslc144 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:47:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That certainly seems like an interesting view on the subject do you play piano yourself and/or another instrument?
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:11:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
tslc144 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:47:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
No I understand you completely I'm learning piano currently and while no maestro yet I believe that those who only play chords are missing a massive fundamental sections of playing the instrument
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:00:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Internet tech support. Being on the phone with people who can't tell their right from their left, saying "Silly you, my computer's already started!" when asked to click the Start menu, asking "is your display all black?" And get:"It's your job to know that kind of things! Are you incompetent? Transfer me to your supervisor!". 10 hours a day. How much time do you really think you could do this? For me, it's been 10 years and I fell apart. It's so hard mentally to never have your work recognized, supervisors dont give a shit as long as you don't have too many complaints, until one day the management decides it's time for a rehaul and blames everybody to not work enough and threatens everybody to work faster, take more calls a day, but make sure our customers are happy! What a shitty job. Even if the pay is really good, I'd never do it again. It just broke me.
SWestsidemiloyo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:02:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Swimming...just because you can make it across the pool, does NOT mean you can start racing and expect to actually win
Kockenhouzen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:02:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Use microsoft office, or any similar program.
out_of_tune_bagpipes ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:03:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Weld. Most people can just stick two pieces of metal together.
conhollow ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:04:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Stand up comedy and sell their own home.
BlueBeetle73 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:04:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Work on their own cars. As a professional automotive technician I see all sorts of fuck ups that people bring to me that they thought they could do just because they saw some YouTube video of it.
pkvh ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:07:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Psychiatry.
Kooky_Clown ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:08:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Become a Chef. People think that just because they can make a great roast they can go run and work in a kitchen. Yea okay aunt Sally I am sure you will be fine with the 60 hour+ work week and all of the other responsibilities you will have to handle.
TR_Ollington ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:10:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Play video games.
reagan2024 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:11:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
There is more to becoming a professional photographer than buying a Canon EOS Rebel camera.
romvn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:11:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Whatever I'm yelling about.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:11:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Coach professional sports.
Teach
ThadChat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:12:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Make a video game.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:14:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fight.
terradi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:16:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teach.
Knowing something and knowing how to break it down into smaller pieces and help someone acquire the same knowledge is not as easy as it seems.
game004 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:16:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Tattoo.. Seriously, just visit /r/badtattoos and /r/trashy.. So much shit
munchiselleh ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:17:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Screenwriting I guess. Lot of redditors act like writing movies and TV is easy because they can write meaningless quippy banter like Whedon, when it's harder and more impressive to be more subtle and write like David chase
Beersyummy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:20:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Work for a nonprofit. Just because it's a nonprofit doesn't mean it's a soft, cozy environment where anyone who cares about an issue deserves a job. I'm a talented, skilled professional, not some tree hugging bleeding heart.
geomod ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:20:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
IT
NoKindofHero ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:21:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
DJ
DoobieHauserMC ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:21:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sports. There's a mentality on a lot of Reddit of "oh ho ho ho put the sportsball in the hole more than the other team and you win the sports and get paid all the cash!" But NAH there's so much that goes into any sport. The wild advanced statistics, the strategy, the physical and mental demands, the list goes on and on. There are certainly athletes who have gotten into professional sports thanks to being physical freaks of nature, but the vast majority are there from obscene hours of work and dedication to their craft.
BakoMack ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:22:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Driving in nascar.
reptileseat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:22:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Porn.
deecaf ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:23:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sing.
HEISENBLUEMETH ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:26:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Accounting. People thought that they can simply do their own bookkeeping, until they realized that they actually making losses (even though their book says they are making profit)
icameinyoureye ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:26:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Porn
FresherUnderPressure ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:29:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Run the country
YardRapist ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:30:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Electrical work. I'm an electrician and see some messed up stuff on a weekly basis. If you dont know what you're doing in the slightest, please just call a sparky, it's better than starting a house fire.
vHAL_9000 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:31:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Porn. There's loads of Viagra involved, and you lose the lust after having to retake shots multiple times.
Nick1911 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:33:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drive
critiquelywhat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:36:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Politics and porn.
Pidermis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:37:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
So many people think they can be psychotherapists just by acting smart and empathetic. You can do a lot of harm if you don't know what you're doing. It's not like the 6+ years of education and state licensing processes exist for no reason!
silly_vasily ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:38:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Singing
JustinMari ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:38:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cooking. When everyone is with their friends and food is to be made, everyone claims that they're the best chef there and everyone criticizes the person who is actually doing the cooking.
juanlee337 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:38:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Professional poker player. People actually think it's a game of skill because it's on ESPN
traceyh415 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:40:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Do drugs and alcohol counseling . It seems like everyone that kicks the habit thinks they can be a counselor. This really damages clients. You need to have more education and tools to offer people that "what worked for me".
basicallyascientist ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:45:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Rapping. So many amateurs waste their time thinking they have what it takes to make it big when in reality they don't have the great lyrics or the flow. I think the flow is the most important part and sometimes its just something you are born with, well having a good sense of rhythm.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:47:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Work email. I work for a very large company and about a month ago somebody accidentally sent an email to seemingly the entire company. Over the next two days HUNDREDS of idiots replied back TO ALL saying "I don't think I'm supposed to be apart of this." Nearly as many also replied TO ALL saying "Please stop replying to all."
It was outrageous. I'm assuming it was a test to weed out the idiots in the company. As it turns out, it's more than a few handfuls.
KrashKorbell ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:50:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drive. We all think we're good drivers. But we all fudge on the speed limit. We eat and drink at the wheel. We play the radio too loud. We allow passengers to distract us. We daydream. I'm as guilty as the next guy. Very, very few of could qualify as professional drivers.
Chucknorrisjoke ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:50:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ref a sporting event on television.
LowB0b ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:51:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Pretty much everything? As I've become a software dev, and my friends have become lawyers, accountants, whatever, you really quickly realize how much shit you don't know... Like sure you might know a bit of the law, or a bit of economics, but no way you know enough of it to actually make people pay for your services.
Being a professional requires at least some basic formation
Gameipedia ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:59:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
complex, involved information FTFY
jcskarambit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:51:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Special forces.
That shit is not fun, hard as fuck, and insanely complicated. I can handle a firearm competently and I might be handy in a fight, but that's still like saying I know how to spell cat so I can be a poet.
Smokeya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:53:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Paint both buildings and art pieces, plow snow on a large scale, and be a first responder (fire fighter or medical).
Have done all of those and everyone and their mom thinks they cant do or handle the jobs with ease. I dont know many people who can cut in a line painting houses without tape and have it straight and many people who do it artistically while they certainly can make something couldnt do it professionally at all.
Snow plowing even if your just doing driveways takes much more than it appears to most people also. Say you have 40 contracts for a season and go out every 4 inches, one day you get 4 inches everything is smooth and fast for the most part, next day you get 2 feet, it takes longer and most people dont seem to understand why it takes longer with differing amounts of snow. They dont understand that vehicles require maintenance regularly, everyone always wants to be first on the list, no one realizes somedays i literally wouldnt leave the tractor for 24+ hours(get done with a route snow coming down so bad have to restart at the begining over and over) except to take a leak or fuel up/refill drinks(usually coffee) and snacks once and a while. Its far harder than it looks and i dont think many people could handle it.
First responder was a rough one though, hard physical labor, deal with all kinds of emotional things as you do see death and sometimes its gruesome, you train basically non stop no matter if you been doing it for your whole life or only a year. Meetings all the time for the station i was on to raise money to keep things going smoothly and do events which people seem to expect local fire departments to do, also again you have equipment maintenance, truck check, filling airpacks, making sure all your stuff is in the right order so you can spend 30 seconds jumping into a 100lbs of clothing and into a truck to get to a emergency in minutes at any hour of the day (i was volunteer department in small town middle of nowhere may differ with big city departments but likely not by much).
good4damichigander ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:28:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I currently manage properties and I had someone recently complain because the plow was being dropped a lot at like 6 am and it was too loud. And the guy actually said, "If I can do a driveway in 30 minutes, I don't understand why this is taking so long." So now, I'm trying to explain to a guy how moving a plow that's attached to a vehicle around blind corners and plowing parking spaces without hitting cars and yeah they're on a hill and there's the fact that more cars are coming in and out and also they can only put the snow like three places on the property and basically, I'm trying to say--do NOT piss off my plow driver, because if he decides he doesn't want to plow this property anymore, we will all die.
Smokeya ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:16:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I used to try and be careful not to wake people, but i also sometimes would be out all hours of the night to keep ahead of the snow and stop people from bitching about their driveway not being done before they had to go to work, or before the county plows came threw, or just because people like to bitch apparently. Not shitting would literally live in the tractor or truck i was using at times and go days without sleep, after a while with no sleep your patients for the bullshit grows real thin. My favorite time to go out when it was optional was middle of the night like 3-4am though. Everyones sleeping and youd be done with driveways before anyone would wake up and come outside. People always trying to move their cars while your halfway done with the driveway, then want you to clean up where the car was parked but also want you to take the snow that was on their car that they brushed off as well, adding more and more time to your already long route. Loved the job but at times just wanted to smack some sense into people as they just assume i guess that they are your only customer and your at their mercy or something.
My favorite thing was when people who paid by the season would want a refund because it didnt snow much. My response was always well if it snows a ton next year you gonna pay double/triple (depending on snow amount basically)? Where i live and where i did this some years we get literally 6-8 feet high snow in a good year (sometimes far more even but its kinda rare, my first year here we had almost 12 feet, couldnt see around corners to turn was crazy), but we also have years like this current one where there is almost no snow at all, maybe 2 feet if you find the right spot to measure it.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:53:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that I could win an Oscar for acting, and I also have absolutely no acting experience.
I never even dived playing soccer in high school.
Resinmy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:53:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Therapy
You find out that there's a lot more than just sitting and talking to people
Lavar ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:55:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drywall and drywall finishing.
RookieAR15 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:55:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Race cars
Kittenzzz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:55:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Paint their houses. Listen, if you actually knew anything about painting, you would be able to see just how horrendous your house looks. "Look! I painted my living room! Isn't it great?" "Yea maybe if you didn't hit the ceiling 5 times or have sausage lines running down your walls and weak spots all over the damn place. Gah!"
johnclayton ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:55:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write a script.
falconfetus8 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:57:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Driving.
Jerdizzle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:58:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Maybe not EVERYONE but at least most sports fan's think they'd be a better referee.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:00:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Management.
TacosAreJustice ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:00:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm a decent cook. People tell me I should open a restaurant...
No chance. Way too much work.
el___diablo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:00:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Paint a room.
BCJunglist ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:03:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Work as a line cook.
Most people just aren't consistent enough or fast enough to be a proficient cook in a professional kitchen.
egotistical_cynic ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:59:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
head chefs have it worse, the worst things about being a line cook combined with manager and accountant
Memphix27 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:03:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Making music, everyone is like electronic artists do nothing, y'all don't understand the complexity of making a bunch of sounds sound good
Itisnotmystory ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:06:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Redo/ make over furniture
Seriously I have seen 2 people do amazing things with chalk paint. It's still blasphemy they are covering up the amazing antique. But they at least did a decent job. For the 100 others locally, go fuck yourself and stop ruining things
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:06:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Basketball
YelluhJelluh ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:08:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Web development. At least Trump thinks anyone can do it - for $3 nonetheless.
bitchwithacapital_C ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:11:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Make a survey. People always want to write a survey having no idea how to put questions and answer choices together to be able to make any sense out of people's responses. I get people all the time asking me to figure their shit out and I have to tell them to scrap everything and start all over.
CaptValentine ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:12:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
While not everyone thinks they can do it professionally, everyone seems to have an opinion on how easy it is to be a pilot. "Oh the planes just land themselves, right? You must have it so easy, you just sit there all day." First off, I'm not that kind of pilot yet. The autopilot I work with shuts off at 600 feet above the ground, making landing a bit tricky. Secondly, the guys who DO do that kind of flying aren't just sitting in the cockpit. They monitor the whole situation. It would be like going to your doctor and saying "It must be SOOO easy to be a doctor, because my body has an immune system and doesn't need you every day." Yes, but when your appendix explodes or you have hard-to-spot symptoms of something serious, professionals are worth a hundred times their salary.
Ennion ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:13:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hockey skating. Watching hockey makes you immerse in the movement mentally.
Lace up a pair of hockey skates and jump out on the ice. It's maddening how hard it is just to stay on your feet let alone move like hockey players do, it's amazing.
MirandAzUl ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:15:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a DJ
unchartedharbor ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:15:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Haircuts.
Natemtz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:15:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a pornstar
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:16:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Excel
Polemus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:17:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Play Hearthstone, it's not just luck people.
Gameipedia ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:01:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Play a TCG, this applies to all of them
copiouscuddles ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:17:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To everyone who thinks being a therapist would be super easy because "all you do is listen to people": It may seem that way, but there's way more to it. I may not be a therapist yet but I have my MA in Counseling and I've done my practicum and internship work.
Think you can "just listen to people" pour out all their often tragic stories and not say the wrong thing and not be emotionally affected?
cm-reddit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:19:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Coach and develop employees. Managers at all levels think the are killing it, their employees have a different opinion.
yakadoodle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:21:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everything. People see something done by professionals, professionals who make what they do look easy because they've done it for so long, and assume because the professional makes it look easy that they can do it too.
See it all the time, every day... and the same noobs who have NO idea how to do something wind up getting hired to do what they don't know how to do. Sometimes that works out... rarely.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:22:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
ITT: any job that takes training and practice to do.
gallaxowelcome ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:24:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Translation: People figure that if Google translate can do it, why not me? :)
GammonBlaze ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:25:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Making music
losnalgenes ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:25:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The gist of this thread seems to be anything that you do for a living can not be done by everyone.
Sanhael ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 18:30:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most things can't be done by "everyone" without the relevant training and experience, possibly some talent or otherwise natural ability in some cases.
I feel like that point is lost on people a lot nowadays. If patients didn't need to be put under for major surgery, they'd be telling the surgeon that they were cutting the wrong thing.
hodgepodges ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:26:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Brewing beer - professional craft beer that tastes good, that is. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a brewery these days, but many feel like homebrewers who just got a loan and unfortunately aren't putting out a quality product that was worth opening a business for.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:26:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write instructions, explaining to others how to do something. It
Aiku ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:26:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone with a few beers in them thinks they can play drums: how hard can it be?
GamerLackinSkilz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:28:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Plumbing...
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:28:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a referee in sports.
You have to make decisions in seconds you can't make a call 10 seconds later.
Duhmas ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:29:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Properly fit shoes
wiildcat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:30:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm surprised teaching isn't on here. Being a good teacher is unbelievably difficult, but everyone seems to think it's simple.
noun_exchanger ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:31:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
everything. anything that becomes politicized, all of a sudden everyone is an expert in that topic. see it here on reddit a lot.
MimosaPrincess ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:31:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a Youtube beauty guru, especially when you consider that most of the successful ones have channels that are really more like 25% makeup and 75% lifestyle. You have to be able to create your own personal brand; show an aspirational lifestyle, but still come off as "accessible" to your viewers. (I could go on all day. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes that a lot of people don't consider.) And besides all that, makeup is tougher than it looks!
Chief_Tallbong ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:31:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
TIL everything is hard. Pick something and suck at it until you nail that 10,000 hour mark.
ITS_MAJOR_TOM_YO ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:32:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Provide sound legal advice
Earpugs ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:32:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oil changes.
azboilsme ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:32:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Boxing/mma is sooooo much more complicated than it looks
MuhPhoneAccount ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:33:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write.
Endlessman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:33:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Psychologist is the answer.
It's not as simple as giving your best friend an advice to "take it easy". Just imagine yourself hearing dozens of stressed, depressed, completely mad people a day for a living.
Jdrawer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:33:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teach English.
Every day, I wonder if I should switch from a STEM major to an English major, because it's really something I do care about, and I've been told I'd be a great English teacher.
But I don't think I could put up with the little sh*ts.
farmingdale ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:43:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
might want to look up the employment stats before making a career change.
Jdrawer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:46:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For real
Olga_of_Kiev ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:33:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Gaming.
esco123 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:35:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a professional 'bowls' player.
Looks easy enough on tv...
carbonetc ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:35:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Web development. There's no real barrier to entry. You can work as a developer insofar as you're able to convince people you know what you're doing. Beyond the visual design it won't be immediately obvious to the client when you've done something poorly. Years later when they get hacked, or the site breaks, or their search ranking sucks, or they need a new developer to add a feature and it takes 5x as long as it should because everything is held together with duct tape... that's when they figure out they got screwed. Nearly all of my work from the rare times I freelance is fixing and redoing the work of shitty developers.
bicyclemom ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:36:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Programming large scale applications.
A lot of folks come in having done some coding in high school or taken some For Profit Tech classes and think they can write scalable, reliable, performant, maintainable applications on the basis of that knowledge alone.
Writing a little contact manager that can hold your 10 friends' phone numbers is very different from writing video streaming or systems for HBO or Netflix or real time princing or trading programs for finance.
ArchViles ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:36:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Play league of legends
Brodoof ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:38:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Football referee. Dad, you were so cocky.
brasseagle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:42:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
sing
cathurrinn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:43:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cutting hair. If you think you can trim your own bangs...trust me. You can't.
hovogenius ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:45:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Playing in the pro sports, seriously our me in coach. WTF sit down before you give yourself a heart attack
memetunis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:46:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This isn't earth shattering but manicures. Yes anyone can paint their own nails but you will get a manicure from a professional that looks tidy and well done. When you do it yourself it is just polishing your nails.
1SensFan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:47:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sports.
"What a dumbass, I coulda saved that shot"
"I coulda caught that ball"
kintarben ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:48:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a car installer
Rebelscum111 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:49:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Play Candyland.
slorebear ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:50:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
daytrade
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:50:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Rap.
Keskekun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:52:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Teaching. 6 years at uni to be allowed to teach, yet every parent think they can do it better
vynusmagnus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:53:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Anything, really. If you're not trained to do something, you're not going to do it as well as someone who does it professionally. Unless something is your profession, you don't do it at a professional level, by definition.
DemonicSquid ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:53:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cooking.
The number of dinner parties I've been to were the host is a bloody awful cook yet is talked up by everyone to be professional standard chef is incredible.
No, that isn't Thai steamed rice, it's just been overcooked so it's a big lump etc...
fami28 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:58:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Whether itโs self taught or through University or college, a true graphic designer should be able to navigate through their tools (whatever they maybe) with ease and grace and not rely on cheap and overused filters and effects to create their work.
King_Fuckface ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:59:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Review restaurants.
BrokenFood ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:00:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Itt: bitterness
andersmb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:01:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Plan events. On the surface it seems easy and everyone thinks they can do it because hey I threw my friend a bachelorette party. Yeah, when doing it professionally, there are a million details involved that most people who aren't experienced wouldn't even think of.
common-username ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:03:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Diagnose themselves, medically. Can't tell you how many patients I have that come in thinking they have cancer because they read online that "headaches are sometimes symptoms of cancer."
Gingervitus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:03:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Political science. And by that in this instance I am referring more to analysis than anything else as that's what most people think they can do. The truth is that its an extremely complicated field that is effected by almost every part of life. Too many people think they can look at an issue and within five minutes find "the right answer". The truth is there is no right answer, most every issue has a dozen other issues that it impacts or is impacted by as well as ten times that for groups of people. To really understand any of the major issues you have to do a LOT of research and even then your scope is likely so limited that you are completely missing many of the external influences previously mentioned. On top of all of that the political world is in a constant flux and impacted by innumerable factors of the world we live in which means that even if you come up with the perfect solution to a problem the next day may yield some change that wipes it all away or even worse, turns that solution back around on itself making the problem worse.
gyftoMD ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:04:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Medicine, at least with the help of the internet.
ParameciaAntic ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:04:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Riding a camel.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:05:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be the boss. "If x manager would just let me do y, it would be so much better." Not that this is never true, but x manager either has a bigger picture in mind or has corporate breathing down his neck or is trying to give in on this one issue to gain political capital for another issue. But in the eyes of the underlings he's just a prick.
adelaide129 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:08:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
argue law.
i thought of myself as a fairly knowledgeable person, considering my lack of degrees and affection for television, but when i became friends with a real live grown up lawyer, he said that whenever we (the lay people) discuss a court case or a trial, it sounds to him like sarah palin sounds to the rest of us. that really shook me up, and now i hesitate to sound off on legal matters. it's just not my field.
theworldchampion ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:10:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Run a block.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:11:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Play football.
Black-Muse ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:13:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Life coach
DigiDuncan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:13:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Impressions.
Iswhars ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:14:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photographer
Iswhars ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:14:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A jedi
FaroutIGE ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:14:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Unless you win the networking lottery, you probably won't be getting paid to rap for a very long time. Over the past 6 years I've seen too many kids to count that have "gotten into the game" just to quit a couple months later because "everyone hates on my music".
Basically, anyone that starts making rap music with the intention of doing so professionally has already really hurt their chances at longevity. Same with any art. Get your reps in and have fun.
sbkerr29 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:15:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Head coach/GM of a pro sports team. Though I did win my fantasy football league this year so I probably could.
Sanwi ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:18:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Construction - especially drywall.
Totallymodular ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:19:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fight. Nuf' said
pamazon63 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:20:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
picture framing. no, it's not just 4 sticks of wood and some cardboard with glass on top...it's so much more than that. edit*
Yog_Kothag ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:21:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"I can represent myself." No. You can't. You don't have the relationship with opposing counsel. You don't work with them every day. You are not aware of the judge's quirks or the local rules. You are too emotionally invested in the claim to think logically or strategically about outcomes. You cannot dispassionately weigh the pros and cons and God above help you when it comes to even considering responding to discovery requests.
You are not an attorney. Hire a goddamn attorney.
canadianwaffle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:22:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Every Redditor and their mother seems to think they have what it to be a professional shit poster.
elyisgreat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:22:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a surrogate mother. Under Canadian law surrogate mothers cannot be paid.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:23:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Breed dogs
TheShadowCat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:27:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I used to be a bartender, and I can tell you, most people do not know how to properly pour a drink.
Gameipedia ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:06:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I've heard tilting the cup/glass helps, when it comes to beer or similar drinks, how true is that?
TheShadowCat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:27:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Depends on what you are pouring. A lager or light ale, you'll want to start with a tilt, and slowly rotate straight. With a stout or cream ale, you'll want to put the glass flat on the tray, pour half, let it settle, pour the second half, let it settle some more, and serve.
The important thing is that you get good head. About an inch and a half of head with the smallest bubbles appropriate for the type of beer.
Some taps you need to work a bit to get good head. If the busboy dropped the keg, you're going to be pouring out a lot of foam. Sometimes the beer is flat, you'll need to use an up and down motion to get the head to build up.
isisamrita ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:27:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Play poker
stillinlovewitredead ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:28:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Basketball.
No the only thing keeping you from making it wasn't that you needed to be a little bit taller.
Tactical_Lemon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:28:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a Youtuber, or to be more specific a Youtube gamer. Everyone thinks that all they do is sit in front of a webcam and scream fuck every ten seconds but really there would be a lot of man hours they put in for all the content they upload
fatimabatool ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:28:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Buisness
Shipwrecked87 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:30:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hair and makeup. It's super infuriating to see people claiming a title they didn't work for-Or cross contaminating every product while applying makeup to a client. A bunch of selfies is not a portfolio.
stampycody ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:30:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Spreadsheets. Anyone can figure out how to plug numbers in, but they think that's all there is to it.
FkinSteve ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:32:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
on reddit everyone thinks they're a fuckin lawyer
turkotheturko ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:32:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
writing a book
teaching-man ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:32:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be the boss. Everybody thinks they can be the boss.
AsburyNutPea ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:33:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
counting from 1 to 100
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:35:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Personal finance.
I work at a bank, and once had a very snarky boys iwfe tell me, "A monkey could be an investment manager. Buy low, sell high."
She had zero savings, maxed out credit, and was deep in overdraft.
LonelyMontana ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:37:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Driving man, driving. I cannot count how many people thinking they can take corners going 45+ when the speed limit is 25. You hit a car head on wreck.
RonDonkley ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:38:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Super Smash Brothers. Melee specifically. A large amount of people that I've talked to about it see it as purely button mashing but in reality you practically have to be surgical with your movements.
xaminmo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:39:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Run a large corporation. Be responsible for 100,000 jobs, and have a family life.
Adrianaxxlynn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:39:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
SING
Randamonia ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:40:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Talk about minor details in the economy. It's ridiculously complicated, we still struggle to predict a lot of what happens.
kperkins1982 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:40:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Driving.
Most people are terrible at it, and at the same time think they are the one good driver.
Adrianaxxlynn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:41:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sing
HaveaManhattan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:41:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Paint, like an apartment.
baloneybopper ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:43:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drywall
Tw36912 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:43:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drive
Otistetrax ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:43:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write reddit titles
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:44:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write their biography.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:45:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
According to this website, be a lawyer. Everyone thinks they know how or why the law should or shouldn't be applied based upon the limit number of facts presented in an article or something else. Drives me crazy
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:49:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wait tables in such a way that everyone has everything that they need at all times, and there are never any delays of any sort, and all of your jokes are exactly what they'd like to hear or there are no jokes at all, and you will be delighted to get a compliment instead of a tip.... Even though tastes vary wildy, the seasoning is 'wrong' if it's not exactly the way they want it without having to tell you...
I haven't waited tables in over a decade, and I still have bad dreams about how hard it was and how many people felt it was their right to treat me like absolute shit.
insignificantsecret ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:49:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Marketing, branding products.
obviousdscretion ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:50:04 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Bake cupcakes.
Interior design.
Make moonshine.
Continue with reality tv ideas.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:55:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Gaming, specifically youtube. Seems like now that money is in the equation everyone tries to get away with blatantly copying one another for subs and views.
broadwayallday ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:57:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Anything video related. Everyone seems to think a camera is all that's needed to shoot a film or music video
fiftieth ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:57:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Boxing. I'm an amateur boxer, and all the new guys that come to the gym come and think they can fight and go pro in a year or 2. Then they get whooped up and see that it's tough.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:57:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a comedian, imagine telling your jokes to a different demographic. Yep, that's what professionals have to deal with. The stress if their not funny to these guys and being booed off stage.
Gameipedia ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:07:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
there* ftfy
Skitz-Scarekrow ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:59:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Graphic design.
Shit is so hard. I'm in college and have no steady income. I design concepts for contractors trying to make the idea look as real as possible within my shitty ability and the people who scoff at me are drawing circles and stick figures on notebook paper.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:04:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Riff Raff could have balled in the NBA.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8y9CC_lA4n0
goingtobegreat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:06:40 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Economic analysis
4740 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:06:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teach school. There's a reason half of teachers quit before their fifth year. Another consequence of this that you have large chunks of society thinking it's the easiest shit ever and dictating laws based on that misconception that fuck up everything.
MAHHockey ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:07:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Professional Athlete.
1 million high school football players, I'm guessing many think they have a chance at the NFL, or at least college football. But with only 15,000 college players (1.5% chance), maybe 2,000 in the NFL? Thats a 0.2% chance that you could be playing football for a living. Numbers are even worse for professional basketball.
It becomes really obvious when you line up across someone who played the game professionally. The different plane of existence they have to be on not just physically, but mentally as well is astounding.
CWHats ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:10:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Teach English. Just because you speak it doesn't mean you can teach it. It is such a pain to fix all these backpacker rules that students have. At the very basic level you need to know...
You can end a sentence with a preposition.
It's "between him and me" not " between he and I".
The subjunctive does exists in English. So does the conditional.
Idioms, phrasal verbs and collocations are important, but have to know when to introduce them.
Learn about transitive/intransitive verbs, the different voices of verbs, objects, and complements for god's sake.
Pragmatics! Pragmatics! Pragmatics!
Edit: formatting
RyantheAustralian ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:20:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well this doesnt bode well for me...
Donnie__dorko ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:12:45 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
psychologist or clinician
advice columnist
writer
teacher
director
bronsonville ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:16:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wash cars. YOU'RE PROBABLY SCRATCHING THE PAINT.
reddituser15243 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:26:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
... Go on
Thumbprint912 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:19:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Playing drums like, congas, bongos, djembesโฆ Kill me
Sevruga ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:27:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fight
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:28:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Doing anything with a youtube channel..
It takes A LOT of time and dedication to make quality youtube videos, and keep subscribers happy..
Sure, you can upload a video of your co-op minecraft survival, but actually getting legitimate subscribers, and people that care takes a long time..Plus, most ideas for youtube channels have been made..
TheReplacer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:29:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sports. We all think we are the best next break out player.
DirtyJon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:30:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Manage a project well. PMs are certified and use industry standard tools, but everything always seems up for debate as if people know what the fuck they are talking about.
anonymoussuitbuyer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:32:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Officiating professional sports - Fans love to criticize officials, umpires etc. but there is no way 99% of them could get on the field and do their job. Look at what happened with the replacement refs in the NFL, while those guys weren't necessarily waiting to get promoted to the NFL, almost all had high school and college officiating experience, now imagine someone who has never officiated a game before...
AlwaysANewb ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:32:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am in my mid 40's and have been working in IT for about 21 years. I know of 4 people who are my age that told me that they should quit their job and go into computers (their terminology). One guy is just going to quit his job and make a website that makes him money. He doesn't even know of HTML. Then there is the guy who thinks he is good at computers... tried to upgrade the video card driver on a laptop I gave him (with the newest drivers installed). I don't know what he did to it, but he tried to reinstall the OS and needed the driver... that was in a folder on the root labeled Drivers. I said, "Why didn't you use the restore option?". What's that? A woman who never had a real job said to me that she was going to become a Network Engineer from some computer classes at the Library.
Hey, I know everyone has to start somewhere, but each of these people believe they could get to my level with a few computer classes. The guy who couldn't figure out how to load the video driver said he could do what I do at my job. It is insulting.
SCPoPo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:33:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Take pictures!
Rebellious1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:34:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fucking poetry dude. Everybody had to write a sonnet in iambic pentameter in high school and thinks its a breeze. I love poetry, I write a lot of it, formally structured sonnet style stuff all the way to spoken word (Spoken word is a new format to me so I'm bad at it). I've got literally hundreds of pages of poems, stuff I've written, rewritten, edited, gotten feedback on and edited again. But I would never want to try and make a living off of it. I do it for the satisfaction it brings me. I changed majors because I knew I couldnt/didn't want to try making a living with it.
Lord-Benjimus ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:36:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Construction manager for their own house. They never have that shit organized then they blame the tradesman because shit hasn't arrived yet, the other guy has to do that first, but no they know all about that. It always ends up costing more to cover their mistakes and lost time then it would have been to hire a professional.
specialk21 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:37:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Meteorology and climatology. The number of people who make claims like they have expert knowledge of the Earth's climate is astounding.
Bananakin_Skywalker ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:42:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
ITT: A lot of people going "oh shit that's me!"
west2021 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:47:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography
coffeeblossom ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:52:37 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cooking. Cooking in a restaurant kitchen is very different than cooking at home. Also, what works for your dishes at home might not work for dishes at a restaurant, especially a high-end one.
Seccedonien ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:53:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Create a website, and the ones that don't want to spend the time expect others to do it free.
ok2nvme ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:54:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Strip
herpaderp- ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:56:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Play the drums. 80% of all guys I know have tried playing the drums at one point of their life
BananaJammies ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:56:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Communications. Just because you do it every day does not mean you are doing it right.
charleston_guy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:57:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drive. Not even close. You can barely do it at all, let alone anywhere near the professional level.
Stahp, Pls.
Basic_Becky ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:58:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Journalism - just look at all the sites that act like they're journalism sites but actually just quote another source. Or all the random blogs that claim to be news sites and include all sorts of opinion (often unsubstantiated).
NikKerk ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:58:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Study.
sjp245 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:59:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cook. Making dinner over the course of an evening for you and 3-7 of your friends/family is NOT the same as blasting out a fully-sat restaurant of 450 tables over the course of an hour.
coconutsdontmigrate ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:01:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Funeral Directing. The amount of people who tell me they would like to do it is insane. So many people think its easy. "Aww just give people hugs and tell them its going to be ok" no, that's part of it but there's a lot of organising things. Basically im trying to organise a huge family event in three days. With people who are going through the worst time of there lives.
Im a sheppard, event planner and a councilor and on top of that an embalmer. Just because you like people doesn't mean you could handle 2 or more funerals at the same time. Its not the hardest job in the world but too many people think its something they could fall into.
End rant.
Gameipedia ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:10:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
doesnt embalming fuck with the decomposition of the body?
coconutsdontmigrate ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:56:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Yeah thats essentially what it is. Stops grandma from going green and smelling like meat you forgot about in the fridge and a blocked sewer.
KatieAlison ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:01:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Singing. I have been to karaoke and some people really think they are better than they are. I cant tell you how many people have told me they would sound like Adele if they could go into the studio like her. I am not a professional singer, but I think it would be harder than that.
lobstertraper ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:02:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Welding. It looks easy and a lot of welding can be done with little knowledge and barely any equipment, but anything major is not worth fucking up
stoolsample2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:03:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fight. People just have no idea.
explodinghat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:03:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Work at McDonald's.
I failed the interview.
Land_Architect ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:04:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
deleted What is this?
bird223 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:06:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sell all that crap that women on my newsfeed are doing.
baldtigger ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:07:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
teach
gawaine73 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:10:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Driving a tractor trailer. I've been a driver for years and I forget how hard it is and how specialized the skillset is until I'm asked to train a new driver. Not very many people can think in the extended 3D space that we have to think in to back and maneuver our trucks in a world generally not designed for our convenience.
good4damichigander ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 04:43:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everything is fun and games until you're delivering a bridge.
You forgot to mention: ridiculous hours tons of fucking regulations dealing with assholes cutting off your truck and not running over them the penalties of missing a weigh station managing home and family if you have one dealing with loneliness etc. etc. etc.
leafjerky ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:11:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Twitch streaming/YouTube channels. I know so many people caught in the delusion that they will have thousands of viewers but only have like 5 yet they still continue to buy equipment. Some people don't realize that you have to actually have some decent social skills and it's exhausting work.
SirChoGath ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:12:07 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well if you're from Pittsburgh, rap
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:12:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Book freight and clearing goods across border(s). Moving a few skids of product to a few containers of pallets country to country to country. there's a little more to it than calling up the freight forwarder and sending it or visa versa ordering product from out of country and expecting a delivery, no delays, next day.
ArcaneZorro ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:12:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Voice acting.
No I can't do exactly what you want with no direction.
And don't hire me to do a job that clearly doesn't match my voice range. You don't look at the 'movie voice guy' and ask him "can you do a british female personal script?"
Also, if you want a script to sound personal, don't add language to them that nobody uses. "Well golly gee Tim I was just sorting the intricacies out in my darned taxes, have you heard of the great opportunities available at Vector Marketing?"
bradnujabe ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:16:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
moral/ethical discussion
JustStopAndThink ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:18:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Study or critique ancient texts / science texts.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:20:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Abstract art. It seems like many people are confident that they have it all figured out and it takes little or no talent to create, they are wrong.
skgoa ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:20:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
tl;dr: basically anything.
Trouble_Starter ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:21:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sex, it just aint happening.
byebyebrain ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:22:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sing or act
Niamhello ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:22:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Dog training. As someone studying it using modern scientific knowledge on how dogs learn and the behaviour of the animals, I can assure you, all training can be carried out in a way that ensures the dog is comfortable and on board with everything thats happening.
Anyone can call themselves a positive dog trainer, but it's vital that the trainer understands canine signalling and body language. I have seen uncomfortable dogs being trained by people with the best intentions but are completely blind to the signalling of the dog.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:22:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everybody thinks being a therapist is just talking to people about their problems. No dude. You have to help the client direct therapy and help them set goals or else we'd all be in treatment for eternity talking endlessly for no reason.
winteralchemistt ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:23:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be an expert in Humanities without a degree in any of the subjects
golyadkin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:24:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Use email headers correctly.
Starfish_Symphony ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:24:50 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Give an "informed" opinion on something they aren't especially experienced working with or knowledgeable about is spite of being fairly intelligent. What did they call that lowest performing gal in Medical school but still managed to graduate called again? Oh yeah, "Doctor". There's a reason pros are pros, they specialize. I sure wouldn't want to do an interns job. On the other hand, a highly trained medical professional doesn't automatically want to be thought of as an "International Arms Proliferation Expert" either. But we all have opinions.
Shaelyr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:25:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Graphic Design
bowlthrasher ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:26:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Charter fishing tour captain.
WeHaveIgnition ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:26:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Not "everyone" but property management. I see so many small companies attempt it. They mess up on accounting, basic managing tenants, dealing with owners. Also they don't follow the law a lot, by accident.
good4damichigander ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:48:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
THIS. I manage 150 apartments and people come in all of the time thinking that it would be so easy. "I'll just buy a complex of my own!"
Did you just put up a craigslist ad that said "Good for young professionals" or "perfect for a nice retiree?" Congratulations, you just broke federal fair housing regulations and can appreciate your incoming fine!
Do you understand basic pool, plumbing, and electrical maintenance, for when there's an emergency?
Are you able to establish good relationships with trusted contractors in every single construction/remodeling field?
Can you juggle 300+ people that all want different things?
Do you already have a written, lawyer approved, tenant qualification process that ensures you wont discriminate against anyone?
It just goes on forever, and sometimes I feel like the job never ends.
fastasyou ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:27:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Actual Professional gaming takes countless hours of practice put in, being mechanically one of the best players in your particular game, as well as having the mindset to make the best decisions in a scenario that only gives you seconds to react, and that doesn't even take into account getting noticed by the competitive scene of that particular game. Shit takes work.
GoblinKingX ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:28:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Govern.
Stephenalzis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:32:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Develop video games. Playing a video game seems to automatically instill in anyone:
1) the belief that they know the real cost of a project (usually to the tune of "it shouldn't cost so much!")
2) the belief that they know how easy it will be to add little features; like extremely immersive deep RPG interaction or say, you know, multiplayer.
People have no idea. But heck, they all seem to think they do.
TheFirstHorseman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:33:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fighting, I don't know how many times I've seen people get into a fight who don't even know how to throw a punch. Everyone thinks they turn into Bruce lee when they get mad. You wouldn't volunteer to fly a plane if you don't know how and you shouldn't start a fight especially if you don't know any form of fighting. Heck everyone should actively avoid fighting, unless your a professional in a ring.
CynDoS ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:34:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a youtuber
mermaid_toes ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:35:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Housecleaner. They're very specific and methodical in how they clean your house (the good ones anyway).
ac5856 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:36:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Any sport.
Grubbiestpizza ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:37:26 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sports betting, every armchair quarterback thinks they can win money on sites like Fan Duel but in reality you need advanced statistical knowledge to even have a chance.
Big_Test_Icicle ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:37:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
From a science perspective I have experienced that many people outside of the fields of science think they can fully understand research articles and the results. Sure the research article finds a correlation between x and y or finds result z but that is not the whole story. You need to look at the methods, the population used, bias, etc, which all lead to a different understanding.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:38:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
YouTube
ResilientFellow ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:39:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Imitate the grandma saying chocolate from SpongeBob, it's fucking easy you're not special
Abadatha ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:40:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cooking. Cooking for your family is great. Churning about 200-400 dinners in busy services day after day, where they all need to be as close to uniform as possible, is not something a lot of people are capable of.
9sam1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:42:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Stand up comedy. There is a big difference between making your buddies laugh in the context of a conversation and crafting a full blown comedic performance that will make a large group of strangers laugh.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:47:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Excel. Few people actually know how to use it.
Methzilla ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:09:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Holy shit yes. It's not just cells with numbers in it people.
SOCreations ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:49:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Act. I work in the entertainment Industry and everytime I talk about a new project to people who don't work in the industry they go "Well ya know if you ever need an Actor!...."
Yeah I know if I ever need an Actor I won't be calling you because every time you even get in front of a camera you giggle like a school girl and can't take your eyes off the lens.
RachelAS ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:49:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Microsoft Office. "Yeah, I can use Excel! ... Wait, what do you mean, formulas?" "What's Access do? What's a key?" "I can put 2-3 columns on one page in Microsoft Word?" "I can add words to the dictionary?" "Everyone loves Powerpoint transitions! And me reading word-for-word from the slide!"
Bottom line: don't put 'Office' on a resume unless you know more than 'type here'.
ETA: I read it as, "What does everyone think they can do IN A PROFESSIONAL SETTING", not "What does everyone think they can do AS A PROFESSION".
good4damichigander ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:50:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I think there's a reason the developer tab is generally hidden from the ribbon until you enable it.
"What's access/what's a database!"
DrrugCrni ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:49:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To become an author and write books. Just NO. You just can't be legite wrriter if you write words next to pictures and publish them. That kind of people who haven't read more than ten books in their life...
greedcrow ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:53:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Play video games. Everyone who doesnt play think its easy. And people who play and are decent think they are super good.
spectre78 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:54:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drive. Seriously, most people are barely able to perform basic, simple maneuvers like go forward, stop and reverse without slamming into something at some point in their lives.
YoBitch_Magnets ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:58:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a Professional Poker Player
Peckherface ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:58:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write lyrics
tommy-gee37 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:59:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
QA testing.
No, it's not just playing unreleased games and getting payed for it.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:59:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Porn.
bjsy92 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:00:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
bowl
greedcrow ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:01:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
ITT: things that no one with a working brain finds easy.
radlo42332 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:03:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Rolling joints and weed stuff in general. So many people waste 3 grams of weed to roll their first shitty, saliva soaked joint and instantly think they are Snoop Dogg.
tnuocca_tidder ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:05:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Tattoo
iwouldcopthat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:05:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Any form of the arts, people underestimate the time, dedication and attention to detail that goes into painting, drawing, acting, performing.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:07:11 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
'hacking'
"Oh, you're good with compooters, can you hack name of someone's facebook for me?"
"If you're good with compooters, why won't you start hacking stuff?"
goddammit
meloncarry ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:07:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sports. No, you probably couldn't have made that game winning shot. You probably couldn't knock a 50 yard field goal to win the game. Calm yourself and let the athletes do their thing!
Defnotmeyo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:08:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Run behind the Dallas Cowboys offensive line.
ingridelena ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:09:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Everyone seems to think they know more about my job than me, so I have to say fashion.
Pro-tip: just because you put on clothes in the morning doesnt mean you can style. And just because you shop at Target doesnt mean you know good quality.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:10:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fight. Everyone thinks that if they get in a fistfight, they would be Mohamed Ali. But hell no! If the person that is attacking you knows how to fight, RUN. Two well placed strikes to the nose can kill you.
Gramage ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:11:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
DJ.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:11:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know a lot of home 'chefs' who think they could be a 'professional.....but they couldn't handle the stress of working in a busy kitchen. and that word 'professional' is thrown around too much.....tired of seeing people just out of college being called professional
OhNoItsFelix ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:16:42 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm surprised it hasn't been said yet but being a therapist. It's a lot more than just listening to your friends talk about their SO
bombalicious ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:17:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cook in a busy restaurant. You either have the skills or you don't.
OrdinaryHotdog ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:20:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hacking. I see wayyy too many people using LOIC or something of the sort to "DoS" someone and then automatically certify themselves as Anonymous.
D4days ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:23:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Painting houses. Especially exterior. Especially these fucking HGTV-drunk retirees and trophy wives who think they can buy a 1960's plantation house, 15 gallons of Wal-mart shelf paint, a ladder, contractor-grade 2" brush and have the perfect house in 2 weeks.
JohnV199 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:23:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drive manual
O_clock ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:24:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
By the looks of my facebook feed, I'd say Modelling. You are not a professional model if you have to PAY someone to take your pictures
clydex ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:25:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fix their house.
I've been a contractor for 20 years. I've yet to be surprised when someone says, "I built this myself on the weekends!". The thing normally going through my head is, "are you sure it wasn't your 4 year old that built this?".
sunflashmace7 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:25:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Bowling. It's harder than it looks to be great all the time, and the tournaments are really competitive. If you're not one of the best you shouldn't even try.
chanqro ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:25:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Economics. People read a couple NYT articles and think they understand complex issues better than experts who have spent their entire careers on them.
FarSightXR-20 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:25:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write a resume. heh
Solsed ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:28:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photoshop
Heart-Shaped_Box ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:29:08 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography. Just because you have a really expensive DSLR does not mean you are good at photography.
discollegebitch ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:29:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm so late but PAINT. As in a house, inside or out. I work at a major retailer in their paint department, and most of my job is educating people of all ages ago want to paint but have no fucking idea what they're doing.
Grimsterr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:33:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Farming, cooking (aka chef), anything artistic (paint, write, photography, web sites, the list is endless).
I love to cook, and cook damn good stuff, I'd die in a busy restaurant kitchen. I have a "mini farm" but it's a hobby, a real farm would kill me. I make my own beer, no delusions at all that I could run a brewery. Just because you have a hobby, and enjoy it, and are really good at it, doesn't mean you can just jump into the pros. Not at all.
buttrice ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:34:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Install flooring. Especially tile. If you have no previous experience and aren't willing to learn, you're gonna have a bad time.
droptheface ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:34:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a cop. I think I could handle it then watch one episodes of Cops and forget that idea.
Clarkee420 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:35:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Model.
Imablargmachine ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:36:51 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
things in film such as script writing and editing. editing is hard some think they are experts after a one day class.
XMenOrangesTangerine ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:04:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm doing screenwriting in university (I know) and it's so much harder than I thought it was.
Dialogue's fine, but plot kicks my ass.
Imablargmachine ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:43:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
the plot kill me too. i can only do short stories.
NYArtFan1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:40:34 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm loving all of these responses. I think one take away I have overall is that people who don't do the thing you're talking about have no idea how much they DON'T know. They see the external thing- being a photographer, being a writer, designer, director, etc. and they think what they see is the entire thing. They don't see the hours and years of a life that goes into doing that well. The endless learning that goes with it. The constant revision and refining of your craft. Doing anything for a career takes discipline and work like any other job. No less for a photographer than for a business executive.
unbeliever87 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:41:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"You really like watching that League of Legends game, have you ever thought about playing professionally yourself?"
hisinfernalqueen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:42:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For anyone living in New Zealand you will understand that this country has a huge problem(?) With kiwi ingenuity. They think they can DIY everything with a kitset they bought from Mitre 10 (Hardware store) and expect it to be just as good as if a professional does it... then when it breaks, fails, falls apart they complain about it however long down the track. I work as a consultant and daily I see men who think that they're electricians who have done wiring in their house or insulated over downlights in their roof. It makes me cringe just thinking about it because their house can literally burn down.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:44:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drive a vehicle
MOHHpp3d ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:44:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a President
Mister-Seph ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:45:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Just try to endure a play wherein one of the lead characters is someone who's never really acted before. I dare you.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:45:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Fight.
Just because you watch a lot of Boxing/MMA or workout doesn't mean you know anything about actually fighting. The amount of times we've had guys come in off the street and say they want us to schedule them a fight without ever training before is ridiculous, these guys seem to think that just because they go to a weights gym a lot that this is enough but usually cant handle the introduction class warm ups.
It takes hundreds/thousands of mat and gym hours to get conditioned to be ready to fight and yet i hear so many people say some ignorant shit like they could fight this professional fighter or they'd knock this person out, it just breaks me.
floppytitty ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:47:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Anything that has to do with forecasting for the future. Of course there are formulas to use, but it's really just guessing and you'll probably always be at least a little bit wrong.
Faaak ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:47:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sending a fucking robot to fucking Mars "with my garage tools to make the rocket"
ZeVillain ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:49:09 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Paint... I've worked with more people who call themselves painters than actual painters. They couldn't cut a straight line to save their life. Don't know how to fan their paint so they don't leave brush marks. Don't know how to make straight lines on textured walls. Don't even own a rolling poll. Don't use the proper brushes(i.e.: Cutting textured walls in with a 2.5" glide). Don't know how to use a sprayer. They will dry roll some areas of the wall, and leave ropes in others. Some of them didn't understand what dry rolling was even after I explained and showed them. Any painter worth a fuck can hear, and even see when they start dry rolling... I could write a book about what these supposed painters don't know.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:50:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drive
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:50:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Waitress or bartend
Roadguy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:53:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Finish Concrete. I have seen so many fucked up driveways and sidewalks because some asshole thinks "all you have to do is dump it on the ground and smooth it out".
Kalistar ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:56:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Dog grooming. People bitch about how much groomers charge all the time and think they can do better. Sure, you can buy some walmart clippers and give Bailey a choppy shave job but when you try to inflict your ineptitude on other dogs for money, you need to stop. Dogs are unpredictable and it's very dangerous to have sharp things like shears around a nervous dog. Groomers usually apprentice for 3-6 months at bare minimum and are exposed to many situations and trained to use their sharp tools safely. Professional shops also usually carry insurance to protect them from crazy owners who think we gave Bella an ear infection.
Brotherauron ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:56:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Stream games. I've streamed rocket league for the last few days and no one even showed up yet.
Shiny-Grenade ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:56:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Translation. Nope, Google Translate is not great. And, any bilingual person is not a great translator.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:57:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Poker. Everybody thinks they could make money and be "a profitable player"
NeuHundred ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:57:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Am I the only one here who has been suggested some of these? "Oh, you should work in IT, you know computers" or "why don't you make websites professionally?" or "you'd be a good stand up comedian." Every time I say "no, I wouldn't" because I understand how fucking hard these jobs actually are and how many little nuances are there that I don't know about. And the reaction is always the same, "you're not giving yourself any credit." My response usually ends up being "no, you don't know what you're talking about" but no one ever believes that.
Sinisteragenda ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:38:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That wasn't funny comedian, make me laugh!
Davylectric ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:58:02 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Gaming. Every kid these days think they got what it takes to be a professional gamer, but have no idea about the sacrifices, discipline and dedication it takes.
Spamakin ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:58:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
YouTube
It takes time and dedication to make content on a schedule, gaming or not.
Props to you people making free content
Novori12 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:04:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a therapist.
BoonesFarmGrape ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:05:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
invest
notchent ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:06:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Music. I've been doing it professionally for 29 years. You have more of a chance trying to make a living buying lottery tickets.
Vivtek ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:06:36 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Translating. Dear God. And if your native language is not English, for the love of all that is holy don't think you can correct mine.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:21:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
Vivtek ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:26:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I figure this is specifically asking something in which non-professionals should not see themselves as equivalent to professionals. I get the occasional German who thinks they took enough English in school to correct my grammar - and I translate over a million words of German to English every year. No, they don't know English better than I do. But it takes a lengthy point-by-point analysis of why I'm right to convince them of that.
Not that it happens often. Once every year or two. I really shouldn't complain.
Now, if the person is a translator - sure. I'll listen to another translator.
Sophosticated ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:08:20 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
being a parent. the moment that someone had a kid, suddenly they a goddamn expert on exactly what their kid needs.
KarmaWhore_UpvoteMe ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:09:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I thought I was fairly good at programming, photography and photo editing and some translation. Now reading through all this made me feel completely worthless :/
DominusXCII ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:09:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Become a race car driver
RafIk1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:11:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
working as a flat-rate automotive mechanic/technician.
sure,you've changed your alternator in your 1980 chevy truck in an hour and a half,but book time is .8 hour,and that includes diagnosis. oh,and there's 2 cars that need diagnosis and 3 others for maintenance checks that need to be done before lunch. and I'm not even going to talk about tools.......
Ethan_the_Lion ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:11:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Game. There are so many people who think they can go pro in games but they don't realise how much time and effort it takes. Especially team games, it's not nearly as easy to work as a team or strategise as people think.
Robert_Skywalker ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:13:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Primarily:
a_ronn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:14:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drive in the snow
MightBeADalek ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:20:54 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Investing money. People think that because they earned some money they know how to invest it. I meet otherwise smart people all the time who have made awful investment choices because they didn't realize how markets really work.
Just because you watch a lot of Netflix it doesn't mean you understand the company.
Livetheuniverse ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:21:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Painting walls
CoolMachine ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:22:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
skyrimmodslurker ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:25:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
sleep
Crocoduck ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:27:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Manage / Coach a professional team. Now, I know if most people sit down and actually think about it for a second they probably dont actually believe they'd do a better job, but then listen to a fan react to any roster move/play call/scheme they don't like and hot damn. GM/coach is clearly an idiot and should be fired because I know better.
YourEatingThatWrong ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:32:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography and no your iPhone and instagram does not make you one!!
skittymcbatman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:34:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Train dogs. Nope.
sharpshooter123 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:37:16 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Patching drywall. At least watch a 5 minute video on how to do it correctly so it doesn't look like complete shit.
epicamytime ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:38:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ride a horse.
jrm2007 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:38:32 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Run a restaurant. I have met many waiters who used to own one and I think people believe that because they enjoy eating in them they also would be fun to operate. But it is the difference between eating and preparing/cleaning up; obviously the former, sitting down and doing nothing but eating, paying and leaving would be pleasant.
PM_ME_STEAMGAMES_PLS ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:42:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a professional Reddit shil, you gotta be very discrete unless you want every main sub banning you.
scicurious1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:49:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write professionally or be a journalist.
I blogged about science for years, and I, like the other bloggers I knew, thought I had it all figured out. Then I quit science and became a professional science writer and journalist. I know nothing, Jon Snow. I am eternally grateful to the mentors I've got now who are so patient with me.
EvelcyclopS ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:50:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography obviously. 'Oh you just got a new ยฃ1000 DSLR?' 'What's that? You're setting up a photography business?'
Cue a forever stream of poorly composed, badly exposed and over photoshopped pictures on your IG or FB feeds with that unbearably pretentious and self assuming watermark 'Kevin Shjtehouse Photography Ltd'.
Fuck off
blackdog6 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:53:44 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Bartending. To be a good bartender in a busy place you need to be very organized, patient, tolerant of idiot drunks, super efficient and able to handle stress well. Not to mention able to remember a lot of drink recipes and know booze well. Like people who cook at well home and think they can jump right into a restaurant kitchen.
BerticusBersht ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:54:30 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fight.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:55:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a good coworker.
frickshun ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:55:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sales. I work in a sales environment (I'm not a salesperson). 4 out of 5 fail.
NerdBlender ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:56:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
For me, being an IT professional, everything from building PCs to networking. Everyone knows someone who knows someone whose kid is an IT expert in their spare time because they once built a PC or installed a dodgy copy of Windows XP. Or they consider themselves a hacker because they jail broke their iPhone.
It used to be a nice earner fixing their messes, now it's not worth the hassle.
BeastlyDesires ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:56:39 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Art or anything that need lots of creativity and patience.
rosemar ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:59:49 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Give dietetic/nutritional advice
GrimCreepaz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:02:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Porn
Arikos ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:02:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
coach an NFL team
XopherD ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:03:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Run the country...
Shitwascashbruh ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:04:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Game Design
jessek ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:04:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography, Design, most creative careers.
fumanchu4u ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:09:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
i think pretty much every job is on here
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:10:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sing...
mrmosjef ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:10:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Contracting, anything construction... I'm am architect and can you tell you exactly HOW to do every last bit of a construction project... But hand me a wrench and ask me install a sink and it's just like my mind goes blank and I start randomly wrenching at stuff... It's weird
prostateExamination ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:14:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
probably cpr, its not that hard to learn, but everyone thinks they can just do it right.
barefeetbeauty ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:14:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Plumbing.
BALLS_AND_SHIT ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:15:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Chef
So many people think that because they can cook one nice meal for 2 people that may or may not have been better than something they had before they can run a professional kitchen.
Try making 5 different meals for 5 people, while making another 20 meals of all shapes and varieties on top. For 3-8 fucking hours. All while having to think about profits, waste, staff, bitching from management, etc etc.
It's not the romantic job that a lot of people (especially women from my experience) seem to think it would be.
Captainhowarth ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:15:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Take photographs, write and sing.
el_supreme_duderino ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:18:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
User experience design. Devs all suck at it, but have to second guess every choice I make. I have 20+ years of experience yet every junior dev has an opinion. I deserve a Nobel peace prize for managing to placate the CEO, the product team, and the dev team without pissing off every user who runs the app.
RidersGuide ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:19:49 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sell things. I find everyone who has worked in retail claims to know how to sell. Most of these people couldn't close a barn door in the wind.
highpur ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:20:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drive
SenorWang ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:21:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Porn.
eWal_Jar ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:22:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Conducting (an orchestra). Not even close.
highglove ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:24:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Competitive eating. Oh you think you can eat fifty hotdogs? I got twenty bucks that says you will throw up after ten hot dogs.
salty_swagmaster ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:25:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Refereeing sports
Canucklehead99 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:27:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I.T.
Logon25 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:27:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Professional gaming, yeah good luck with that lol
darkhelmet1121 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:31:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drive.
Chandragupta ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:33:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Doesn't seem like it but firefighting. Everyone I've talked to thinks we get paid too much squirting water from a garden hose. A little bit insulting, considering I explore for a full service dept.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:37:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
within the healthcare field, be a doctor. every healthcare field/worker these days wants the autonomy and role of a doctor without actually going through the process of being one and learning everything that comes with.
DarthUnclePennybags ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:38:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Program or hack a lot of people claim to be able to program or hack just because they watched a youtube video or know someone's facebook profile.
ZE_R0 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:38:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Give medical advice. The amount of blatantly incorrect medical advice i've seen people give their "friends" on social media is scary. There's a reason healthcare professionals go to school for so long and do residencies. If WebMD and your friend Joe on Facebook were always right, we wouldn't need healthcare professionals.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:39:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fighting, like UFC. Tons of kids from my high school have tried along with a ton of other people I know. Most of them are a fucking joke and they suck at fighting because very few have the dedication and discipline it takes. Newsflash, 1 hour seminars 4x a week will not make you elite. Every time I grappled with any of them, I could submit them... Granted im a 3x all state wrestler, but come on bro.
IZ3820 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:40:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Form opinions. Maybe 8% of my population is qualified, and that's being generous.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:42:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Video games, and any sport really, the amount of dedication and skill you need is absurd.
prikaz_da ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:42:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Design flyers.
PoopStuckOnYourFur ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:42:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Take pictures
Aleismar ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:43:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a nurse.
I see a lot of people that start out in this field and they mostly just end up leaving it because they can't handle the pressure of the job.
tootired25 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:43:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Referee sports.
_erikathomas ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:44:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography
SuperDuckMan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:46:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Website development. No you do not just 'drag and drop' page elements.
karkovice1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:49:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a referee/umpire/judge
NoonecanknowMiner ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:49:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Driving a race car.
It can be learned, but it's incredibly difficult and takes a very, very long time to learn. I'm not talking about a car you just take down to your local track on a Track Day, I mean something like a Stock car or a Formula One car. And driving it is only one part of it. You also have to learn how to be fast in it, and how to actually race. Driving =/= racing.
bupereira ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:49:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be porn stars
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:50:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Diagnose others. WebMD doesn't make you a doctor but thank you for letting me know that my cold might be cancer because your grandfather coughed a lot when he was dying too
deamont ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:40:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
While I don't think Webmd is something to sling around when you head to the doctors, it is a pretty good tool for figuring out what your symptoms might mean.
drcash360-2ndaccount ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:51:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I could've made that shot
thebush007 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:51:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Rap
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:52:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Lawyer, there is SO MUCH MORE TO IT THAN YOU THINK.
toomanybookstoread ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:53:16 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sell legalized weed. It's got to be harder than "High Profits" or "Barons of Pot" make it seem.
egalroc ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 01:37:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
I was talking to a guy I used to get high with before medical growing was a thing. Went to his grow operation and he said, "I remember when being able to grow pot legally was a wet dream, but now that I'm doing it it's a pain in the ass."
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:53:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Coming from a meteorologist, predict the weather.
Coralcell ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:57:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Play poker
tisbaked ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:58:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nascar driver for sure! I mean they gotta hold their pee that long!
encryptLiberal ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:59:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography, everyone thinks that having a expensive camera or a high mega pixel, means, "good images", but that couldn't be any more wrong.
sunbloc ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 00:59:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
drive a tractor trailer.
SquadPanda ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:01:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Video Games
RickSanchezBaby ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:02:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Tile.
Alldaylikemoneymay ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:03:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Play poker.
pursitofHappiness ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:03:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Every fresh comp sci major wants to run a start up. Source: am younger naive comp sci major
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:04:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fine art. "My three-year-old can do that crap!"
peepeevajayjay ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:17:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Well it depends. Some modern art is pure bullshit. Went to moma years ago and one of the displays was 4 blank walls and the lights turned off and on every few seconds. That was it. Then there was a section with what looked like just some metal chairs welded together. Can't defend that bullshit.
bobsaggot7 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:04:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
an artist..
jphive ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:07:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Graphic design...i can't even count the number of times i have nearly slapped the shit out of someone who told me what i do is easy...
tinamarie1970 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:09:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
To throw obama out of office !
SuspiciousOfRobots ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:09:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Diagnosing their own illnesses
DragSfrank ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:10:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Investing
Calamari00 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:11:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drive
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:11:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
One that comes to mind is being a critic. It's not difficult to be critical, it's not difficult to judge things hastily or harshly. But to actually provide some value with your thoughts and opinions on something that is buoyed by experience and some level of knowledge and expertise in a way that can put to words things the layperson might not have been able to express or otherwise bridge the gaps between artistry and audience. Let alone to be able to do it reliably and across a wide scope of topics (within a field) That's quite a bit harder to get 'right' and in the trying, I don't think most really measure up.
djrincon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:15:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a DJ
TheDolphinOfDoom ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:16:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"This thing I do professionally."
coday182 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:16:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Play the drums in a real band. Apparently everyone who can tap their feet/hands along with their favorite song is good enough to do it for real.
DirectorChick ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:16:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I used to think that anyone can do a customer service job, but then I met my ex and I realized that some people should, in no way, interact with the general public from a business capacity. It takes a special kind of person to not personally insult every single customer they come in contact with.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:18:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
eSports and be successful.
Tron239 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:19:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fight and fuck
stalkedinlancaster ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:21:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Acting.
justagirlfromtexas ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:21:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography. People (young moms especially) seem to think that because they own a camera and know how to use Photoshop, that makes them a professional. Add a cute little logo, and some cheesy props, and they start posting away on Facebook about their specials on mini sessions.
doublesoup ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:33:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This x1000. It especially bothers me because I have friends who went yo school for photography and have works years in journalism as photographers.
Andrebjorka ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:25:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
SPSS
adonis98 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:26:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I'm not sure if this counts- but everyone thinks that they're a terrific multitasker, when in reality- they aren't.
mynameissiix ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:27:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
DJ. Most people think it's just playing one song to another but if you're actually good, there are a shit ton of things you have to learn. BPMs, EQs, loops... Frat dudes think they can buy a turntable and become Calvin Harris in a year then give up when they realize how difficult it actually is. Making beats is on a different level too. Shit takes years to learn if you want to make anything halfway decent. Time and money for equipment and programs etc.
wintr ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:28:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Paint. (not the artistic kind) The difference between a pro and an someone untrained is really, really obvious.
GhoStaRiCa ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:30:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Getting high GPA
thufirseyebrow ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:31:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Any kind of cabling/wiring.
Customer: "Oh, I ran all this coax myself!"
Me: "really? The radio shack splitter used as a barrel and the 57 extra feet coiled up and hung on a nail totally didn't give it away."
IAmFern ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:33:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Paint, and I don't mean the artistic type. I worked as a professional painter, and there are plenty of little things to learn if you want to do it right; have it cover properly, no streaks, evenly applied, etc. This includes how to cut in, how to cover up, how to use a roller, etc.
zian ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:34:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Record the position of something with GPS.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:35:27 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Beer brewing. Every asshole with a gatorade cooler and an 10g aluminum kettle thinks they could run a brewery. There's so much about running a brewery than brewing 5 gallon batches.
SPSilver ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:40:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Play Overwatch.
terradoge ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:43:07 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Making video games
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:43:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Play video games
Uggi7 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:45:47 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
BBQ
egalroc ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:49:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Falling trees. If you're a professional it's dangerous and if you're not, it's deadly.
bridgebum826 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:49:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Play poker.
Ndulula ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:51:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Any job. You just jave to pick what you want to actually do.
_Lady_Deadpool_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:51:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Programming. I've had a client at my old place say, "it's just code how hard can that be"
Gin4NY ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:52:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Porn
ICrimsonI ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:55:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a soldier, no you don't just run around going bang bang.
Efpophis ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:56:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write software. Hell, only about 1/4 or less of the people working in the field actually know what the hell they're doing.
Juicerchik ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:58:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My sisterinlaw wanted to open a bake shop. She started to go to school to cook. The horror of it still makes me cringe.
Luktuk123 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:59:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Pornography
aHairyWhiteGuy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:03:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be in the NFL or NBA. Sorry kiddo it's not happening.
hastobetrueitsreddit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:04:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Spray painting. Yes you can get a good finish using a spray can but you need to know how to do the prep work properly. A spray gun is better than a can if it's cleaned out properly and the user knows how to set the gun up properly for their use.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:06:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Gunsmithing.
Just like auto mechanics you can bolt shit on and it will probably be fine but when someone thinks they can cut a barrel and crown it or think they can thread it, it comes out all messed up and then they try to sell it for an outrageous amount because its been "customized" and " sporterized". People who think because they built an ar15 from a kit and it turned out ok, that they can open up their own shop for ar15 builds smh....
RlyRlyBigMan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:07:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write clean fucking code. They don't but hopefully they'll be a Program Manager soon so they'll stop that nonsense soon.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:14:31 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Journalism.
Good and fair reportage looks easy right up until you try to become an instant expert, find the right people to talk to, take notes well enough to reproduce verbatim speech, compensate for your own prejudices and biases, and synthesize it all into 700 elegant and understandable words that thousands of people will read and consider.
For shit wages and constant criticism. But democracy only depends on getting it right, so there's that.
FreeskiJibMaster ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:15:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Any X Games event. Those sports take talent.
Dr_THC ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:17:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Pressure washing.
You will either fuck it up terribly. Hurt yourself. Or spend 5 hours doing what a professional does in 1.
5abiNinja ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:17:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Programming, I have tried and tried and tried again, failing every time.
PKMNtrainerKing ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:19:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sing
ProjectDueMonday ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:20:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Singing is not for everybody.
hemanwithers ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:20:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography
bgregory902 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:21:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Psychology....
PyroPaperPlanes ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:24:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Voice acting. The hours of strain on your voice is enough to make you quit after one session.
Iknowdemfeelz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:24:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Take photos.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:28:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sales. It is a well learned and difficult career and skill set. Many people discount it and belive they could do it better.
chambertlo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:28:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a porn star.
It takes a lot to be succesful in doing porn, and just standing there with fake tits or a big dick will not make you a good performer. Just like any other type of acting, you have to give me the spectacle of the craft. Give me a performance each time you fuck. If you are going to be boring and just lay there, or just grind like you are performing oral surgery, you will be forgotten.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:28:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sales. It is a well learned and difficult career and skill set. Many people discount it and belive they could do it better.
cat-mother ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:28:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
manage people
PmMeYourSmallBoobs- ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:32:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Audio Engineer. I do way more than just push record.
Tagon ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:32:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I am always shocked by the number of people who think they can do sales.
It is a hard job commission is a hateful lover.
SassySachmo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:33:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a stand up comedian
buck_99 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:36:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Operate heavy equipment with proficiency and efficiency. I've been a union member of IUOE for 10 years now and to hear the way some contractors, foreman project manager or just some dickhead from outside the trade talk about it, you'd think any spaz who just happens to own a garden tractor or has watched someone operate one and they automatically think it's easy, or the machine can do things way outside the parameters of said machine. It's a dozer, not a magic unicorn. The guy in the seat is good, just not Merlin good.
GOATrieIrving ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:36:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Basketball.
SprikenZieDerp ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:40:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Operate a vehicle. Just because you have been driving for however fucking long you've had your license, doesn't mean you are truly a professional driver. Do you really think yourself capable of pulling off the vehicle stunts you see in the movies? No? Then shut the fuck up.
ryan924 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:41:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Baking. I'm sure your home made brad is good, but it's not the same as making something commercially
ezSpankOven ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:41:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a cashier at a grocery store. "An easy job any idiot can do". Well no. We hired so many that must had had the intelligence of a fence post and thet could just not grasp it and keep up any sort of speed no matter how hard they tried. Sadly, the job isn't hard. The reality is the average person is a lot dumber than you think.
UtMed ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:43:42 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Anyone can really do anything, if they put enough time/energy into it. Some fields anyone can tell that you're an amateur. Some, only pros can tell you're not a pro.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:46:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
On Reddit, everyone's a constitutional scholar.
zulu-bunsen ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:54:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
You are a gentleman and a scholar.
BinBit ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:47:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Washing your Vehicle. Your probably scratching it dummy, and try a wax twice a year.
Have_A_Jelly_Baby ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:51:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fuck.
RayzRyd ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:51:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Porn
SneakierNinja ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:53:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Make a pizza. I see all these pictures of these homemade lopsided pizzas that people are so impressed with. Where I work those things would be remade. Try spreading the sauce evenly too, it's hard!
TokyoJokeyo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:55:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Typography. In the Information Age, everyone has typographic and layout software at their fingertips, so we rarely rely on professional typographers to do it for us. Trouble is, most people are awful at it or don't even try, which is why we end up with 12-point Times New Roman in professional and commercial applications.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:56:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Electronic music production. Lots of people think "Oh, they're just talentless hacks who loop together samples and presses buttons. Anyone can do that." But there's much, much more to making a quality track.
idumby ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:57:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
The people who are professional gamers are one in a million. You, my son, are not that one in a million.
hibbitydibbitytwo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:59:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
graphic design
jursla ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:59:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Politics
rosegardenconsulting ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:01:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sales
knumberate ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:03:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Furnace repair. Get your damn dick beaters of your furnace and call a professional. I have no problem with you killing yourself, but when your wife and kids have no say I get upset.
UncleSnuggles ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:04:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Beer Pong. Everyone thinks they're the shit at beer pong.
jldavis1257 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:05:04 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Has anyone said pornstar? Yeah porn star. Crack is good to though
spyker54 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:05:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Shoot a gun ... accurately
Jack_Sauffalot ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:06:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
IT
Software Development
Source: Work for a SaaS financial firm. We have a lot of turn over.
AsianPengy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:09:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Doing YouTube/ Playing Video Games for a living.
It seems some kids take inspiration and try to build up their channels and/or dedicate hours to trying to entertain but that stuffs hard and fleshed out.
MZA87 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:10:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Coach a sports team
schu2470 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:10:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sports.
Shatnerwilliams ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:10:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Manage their own finances
Amnsia ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:11:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Gaming. Games like CoD might be easy, but getting from being good to pro is a huge leap. As many things though, having and taking the opportunities you're given usually helps.
Phormicidae ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:13:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fight. I guess, maybe not exactly professionally. But most guys sincerely believe that if it came down to it they could hold their own in a fight.
Let's put it this way: if you are not sure you have the chops to build a coffee table out of wood with little carpentry experience, than you definitely can't fight without training because that shit is hard as hell. You may think you have a hidden reserve of George McFly Left Hook super strength, but when your mightiest blow barely stuns the trained fighter you are up against and you're panting after 30 seconds, you will realize you have no idea what you are doing.
malakistiri ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:14:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Music
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:18:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Racing. Even if you're good, you still suck. And on top of that, in order to go anywhere with it, you have to make bank, and you have to have connections.
Buckeyes000777 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:19:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sex.
usku ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:19:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
League of Legends.
I_love_bearss ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:20:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Commentating sports.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:22:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hanging drywall.
Kinderschlager ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:22:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
playing video games. no, the professionals are making millions. are you? oh, you're not? what's that? you dont want to spend 9 hours a day playing the same character and map? hate to break it to you, but you arent and wont be a pro
bl4nkt4nuki ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:26:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Twerking
Selrisitai ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:26:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Talk radio.
beepbeepitsajeep ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:27:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fucking Nascar and racing in general, yeah, sure, show me your mad drafting skills as you take the inside line.
chicagoreefer ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:27:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Investing.
People who invest their money in lottery tickets often think that they would be good at investing their winnings.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:38:13 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Olympic Curling...CANNOT be that difficult to become a professional, let alone compete at an international level. Now here me out. Sure it's on ice, but it requires no skates. No protective equipment whatsoever that can affect vision or mobility. Hardly any seeing eye hand coordination is required. There is no discernible difference between mens and womens curling, and I highly, HIGHLY doubt being slightly overweight/out of shape would have any effect. Plus, tons of drunk people play table shuffleboard every week at bars all across the country. They even play it at a high level. Once again I'll say, give me 5 years of training and competition and I'll be competing in international competitions. Give me 6 years and you'll see me at the 2022 Winter Olympics in Beijing as part of the US Curling Team! #USCurling2022
EDIT: diff between mens and womens as in I dont have to be a big burly man to compete. Kinda like how a woman couldn't play in the NBA or NFL because they don't have the same physical mass / abilities.
Edit #2: Whoops! This is something I actually think I COULD be good at.
mralistair ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:47:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
most olympic athletes aren't professionals
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:30:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
If they earn any money whatsoever from their sport, then they are professionals. Years ago, that wasnt the case, but not so much anymore.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:39:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drive
_phospholipid_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:39:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
As someone who does not watch professional but spends time with people who do, I would say ref professional sports
CourtM092 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:49:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Work with children. I'm a paramedic and I always love peds, but I suck at it so much. Some people that I have worked with, both on the truck and in the hospital, have such great bedside manner when it comes to kids. I'm was always so jealous.
SanPanama ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:49:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Traffic engineering. No, you can't make this intersection better.
Jofonater ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:52:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
League of Legends.
ReapItMurphy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:52:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fight. I mean, I've been in some fights in my younger days but that doesn't mean I'd last a second in a ring with someone who does it for a living. Even with the lowest ranking fighter I'd probably get my ass handed to me. But every guy, at least, probably thinks they could probably step in a ring and do all right and man...that just ain't the case.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:05:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Poker.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:06:51 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
House painting. As a remodeler it is almost always disappointing to hear the client is going to try and save money and do their own painting. They don't realize the time it takes to put 3 coats on everything, how much there is, and just how much skill a pro has.
fruitseller24 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:07:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Excl
hipposlut ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:11:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hip hop/ dj/ mc/ ghost writer
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:16:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I know about 10 people with expensive chef knife sets that boast about their cooking skills. To me, this is like buying an expensive screwdriver set so that you can boast about your building skills.
RebelxScum ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:16:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Hair!!
Psyanide13 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:23:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Coach.
Everyone thinks they know exactly what to do and when simply because they saw what didn't work.
let_them_burn ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:25:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drive race cars. A lot of people think that because they can drive their car on the street without crashing, that they could easily be a competent race driver. Race cars are driven at the edge of traction, meaning they are at the edge of control and drivers will experience greater g-forces than an astronaut on launch. Most people will never come close to this, yet they're convinced they could easily compete in the Indy 500 or the Monaco Grand Prix.
YoureTheManNowCat ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:26:58 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a doctor.
"But... muh google search!"
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:27:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
sports analysis
SlufootBlog ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:28:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Blog.
Margov23 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:30:14 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
shoot free throws in the NBA
EagleEye_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:33:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I don't have any personal experience to back up my claim, but gaming. Pretty much every dude at my high school who doesn't like school and/or working (a large amount of them, as you can imagine. I fit that description too, but I'm not interested in professional gaming) thinks they can just pick up their incredibly popular game, a decent camera, and a mic, and automatically become some Smash Bros or League grand champion or a YouTuber with millions of subscribers. Like I said, I have no experience to back this up, but it takes roughly as much work as regular work to make a living off that. I'm not saying that nobody should be a professional gamer, but it shouldn't be everybody's go-to answer for being lazy.
piercinghousekeeping ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:44:53 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Modify their car with shady parts. I went through this phase no less than a week ago and my ride has never been stiffer
bean0s0rz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:46:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Golf
chaserjames ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:51:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Body piercing. Everyone thinks it's easy but actually doing a good job is much more difficult than people realize. Not to mention troubleshooting the problems one tends to run into.
eroticEmu ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:58:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
drive
Cthulhu_Cuddler ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:59:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Porn.
Man_eatah ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:04:41 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Give a GOOD massage! It takes a bit of training and practice to get it right.
DataEast1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:04:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Porn.
pawlakd ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:05:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography. So many people buy a camera and make a "business".
lacee_45 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:05:38 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Gaming.. or being a YouTube sensation. STOP IT!
I love gaming but I suck ass compared to these prophecies. I'll stick to just driving my resentful ass to work every day to actually make money.
stormycloudysky ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:05:50 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Real estate. I don't know how many times people come in to sign stuff and they're saying they think they should be a broker because they were able to sort through some zillow listings. It's mostly paperwork and getting ignored by the other agent who's supposed to be doing their job, and having to get up super early and drive for two hours to a home only to find out your clients hate the driveway and don't even want to look inside. All while not being guaranteed compensation. For like months of work.
dkrainman ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:11:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write a graceful English sentence. Or even a simple declarative one. Just can't even.
SocraticSmack ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:12:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Public relations / Image consulting Just because it looks good to you, doesn't mean it looks good to anyone else.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:16:03 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Stand Up Comedy
2056163 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:19:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
YouTubing
djquimby ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:20:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Web design
gameoflife21 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:15:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
What are some examples of faulty web design that you see?
Av_navy20160606 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:27:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Work on their own car. I've seen and heard waaay too much bullshit from people who think they know better, and won't listen when you tell them they're wrong.
bulletm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:27:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Buy or sell a house. People think real estate agents are drooling morons that sit around their office masturbating with their huge commission checks. And that's sometimes true, but in reality it's not easy at all, especially in a really hot market. Well, unless you have a ton of cash. But everything's easy when you have a ton of cash.
HylianEnthusiasm_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:36:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Editing. I'm working my way into the field at the moment, but most people assume you just need to know proper grammar and spelling and that it's an easy job.
flapjackboy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:39:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sing. Justin Bieber being a prime example of this.
MaybeTV ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:42:56 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Probably some kind of porn, it seems so easy while milking yourself, but when you get in there oh boy it would get weird sometimes
thereal48 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:52:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Beer pong.
theshethatsaid ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:54:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Every profession you could possible think of, is listed in the comments.
ChipperbrownXO ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:00:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Their current job
HighRisk26 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:24:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Stripper, because they look like shit
419IsJustaGame ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:30:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Eat ass
JadenRileyAM ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:43:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Play League of Legends
drpeppergal ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 06:52:18 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teach.
Chefbexter ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:08:02 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a chef. Cooking at home is one thing, cooking professionally is another. I will downgrade that to just being a cook. I have seen a lot of talented cooks that just can't make a living at it.
BThriillzz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:22:01 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a mover. Sure if your a big strong guy you can move furniture, but preparing it, loading it, getting the trucks situated properly... it's a little more than "pick it up and put it down"... just a little though ;)
trustmeep ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:08:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I wish someone had explained that to my last "professional" movers...
BThriillzz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:36:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's the difference right there. Everyone thinks they can do it, but to be a professional requires a bit more... I'm sorry you had a bad experience, it kinda sucks how some movers give us all a bad name.
1avablink44 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:26:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Understand women.
Enriquepollazzo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:33:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
poker
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:42:08 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
lisasimpsonfan ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:58:29 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography. Everyone thinks that if they just buy an expensive camera they can open up shop as a professional photographer. Photography just like art takes talent and you can't buy it. You can learn most of it like how to do a good composition or how to bring out the best in your subject. But there is a difference between being technically good and being an artist. I worked as a professional photographer in both a very expensive studio and freelance. I have won a few award and a few local art shows. I am not the most talented person but most people who claim to be photographers online are clueless.
trustmeep ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:07:25 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This only works if you are very pretty / wealthy...
MysteriousBoob ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 08:16:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
ITT: All of the reasons why my hopes and dreams will never come true.
sskhan98 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:01:39 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Making thousands of dollar through website .. :/
trustmeep ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:06:44 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It depends on your time frame...making that in one year...well...
sskhan98 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:13:37 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
want to make it every month :(
CH117 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:29:57 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Wipe their own ass
smileyman118 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:42:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Racing driver
edwartica ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 09:45:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Poetry. So many people take a bunch of big words, alliteration, rhyming, and super personal, fluffy meaning and call it good.
Poetry is fucking hard to write even if you're good at it. Oh, and if you call yourself a poet and only write haiku, you're not a poet.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:02:48 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sing. Motherfucking sing. You're about 3 notes and half off from the one in the song and the dissonance is making my ears bleed. The high pitch squeals don't help either, Adele.
thedarksniper2 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:05:12 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Taking photo's
mralistair ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 11:35:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
using apostrophes
strangeattractors ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:23:10 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Was a professional singer to work my way through college, and while I did not have a big passion for music, many tone-deaf people who asked my pianist to sing thought they were Adele/Frank Sinatra.
The_Lie_Llama ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:40:21 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
fuck
viodox0259 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 10:53:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Go to the washroom and wash their hands before they leave.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:21:54 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Singing, but I wouldn't know.
... not even a little.
Prototype_es ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:30:40 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Rap. No your mixtape isn't as good as you think it is
THExDANKxKNIGHT ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 11:58:43 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drive
doublex20 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:01:52 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Translating. It's not just about knowing two languages.
pianogod ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:16:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I speak two languages and can't translate well at all.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:17:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
talking to the girl of their dreams :(
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 12:17:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a "lifestyle coach". Similar to the facebook photography situation, a stay at home mom on instagram will purchase one of those popular fitness guides(think kayla itsines), start eating clean, get in shape, and then BAM. Suddenly they are qualified to be a personal trainer/nutritionist. Irritates me to no end
Irhaa ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 13:38:06 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It, it just takes the ability to process information. If you do not have a handicap, you could pull it off, well at least fake it until when you have enough experience.
TaroShake ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:08:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Taking Xrays! May not apply for people outside the hospital but does for some health care workers. So many nurses think us Xray Techs have it super easy to just lie the patient on the table or have them standing and take images. No! We have to determine the patient's anatomy and position them in a way to obtain the best image.
Mandamort ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:21:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
A Doula, so many uneducated divorced moms take this seriously. I see this everywhere and every time someone has a child they feel like an expert.
dead_rising ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:33:19 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
operate forklifts
MadamFinesse ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:41:11 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sing
defosnotblitz ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:00:22 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
League of legends
GGWAG ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:09:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
brew beer, 600 gallons at a time. (or 3,875 gal for that matter)
xbeastlyskillzx ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:16:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Drive.
juliesearching ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:18:46 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Performing in any capacity...theater, standup comedy, etc.
Chittychitty_bang14 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:05:33 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sing
thegreencomic ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:01:20 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Standup Comedy. All performance arts are harder than they look but standup is ridiculous. You do everything yourself and any failure is 100% your fault.
Worst part is that you can't practice except by doing it. It's like if they trained surgeons by just giving an untrained person a scalpel and let them kill 3 people a week for 10 years until they figure it out on their own. I have a lot of respect for anyone who can build a career in it.
harekele ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:20:05 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Make electronic music
trashlikeyourmom ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:24:23 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography, porn, furniture restoration, interior design.
AmandaTwisted ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:40:34 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Middle management... You have to be able to kiss ass, kick ass, never make a mistake unless you enjoy being chastised over tiny things that don't matter. You have to juggle unattainable goals with unreasonable expectations from the people above you while keeping the people below you from seeing that you're barely holding it together sometimes, not because you're not good at your job but because the higher ups generally have no idea what reality looks like for the lowest employee. Large chunks of your salary often depend on low paid employees doing exactly what they're supposed to at all times.
Tl;dr: Middle management: Being able to take shit from people who don't know shit while standing neck deep in shit and pretending you love all this shit.
stevenyslee ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:29:17 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Fight.
Being good at fighting because you're "naturally aggressive" is like someone saying they would be better at basketball than someone on a team because they are taller.
Also as with many professional sports you actually have to WIN to get paid and paid well. Now imagine if you stepped into the ring with someone who literally had to win fights to feed his family
Hax_ ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:09:36 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being the next Skrillex. So many people from high school thought having a copy of Fruity Loops and downloading some sick samples that they could make big money making music. Granted some people have but it's a long shot.
That-nz-guy ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:50:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Work in IT / networking/ telecommunications field. So many "computer nerds" who work in retail stores, have no qualifications and no experience other than creating LAN's at home for gaming, think they are Einsteins. Same goes with first year's at uni, how about get to at least 3rd year in your BE, and 12 months work experience before you run your mouth and think you understand radio frequency propagation via satellite atmospheric interference, or how to set up a simple ACL/GRE tunnel, which by the way is not installing Norton or creating a VPN for netflix. The amount of douche bags i come across when having a pint at the pub, when they ask what i do, and they think they know it all and can do it, yet they work at Kmart, blows me away. Granted, very intelligent people out there, but there is a lot more to it all than many of the idiots i come across know.
AoLIronmaiden ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:07:04 on January 25, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Referee
JDog902107 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 07:22:09 on January 27, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
porn, from what i understand, it takes hours to just make a couple minutes of film, you have to maintain sitffness for that long and all that jazz, it just seems tedious and unrealistic
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:31:37 on January 27, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Personal Training.
Fitness industry is full of unenducated guys with above average physiques that are hungry for money.
KillLaBill ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 05:02:01 on January 29, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Judge talent.
redneckygrunge ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:29:53 on January 29, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
This isn't really a profession, but my brother believes he can get to the final stage in American Ninja Warrior without any sort of training what so ever.
djwalker93 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:45:32 on January 29, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cooking professionally or opening a restaurant
Mitsuki_Horenake ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:25:38 on January 30, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a master chef.
limark ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 12:32:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Become an IT technician judging by the amount of idiots who come to see me about fixing their computers for something stupid they did to try to improve their computer.
Had a chick who'd discovered google come in complaining that when she'd tried to delete things to add more space on her hard drive the computer crashed. The moron had been deleting windows registries......
[deleted] ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 22:18:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
/r/itcirclejerk
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:29:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My goodness, how did she even get to the registry editor without knowing what it was or having the sense to leave it alone? Scariest thing I've heard...
discountwarehouse ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 13:55:28 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Open and run a restaurant.
Casteway ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:46:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Your mom.
you_are_soooo_sued ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:14:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Nobody mentiones Multitasking?
newharddrive ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:19:41 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Driving. Learn how to signal folks.
EveryDayRay ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:37:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Become an MLG professional. Many times i have met people who have slaughtered me in Halo or Cod and they tell me "I should be a pro. No one can beat me in this game" But the skill gap between good "casual player and MLG players is massive beyond existance. I remember this one time i was in a warzone match in H5 against Faze Kampy. It wasn't fun
TheDogstarLP ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:49:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Oh god, yeah you see that all the time in CSGO. Many global elites (highest rank in the game) think they could go pro, when really skill disparity between the highest rank in the game and actual pros is so high that there are third party rank systems which are more serious and go higher.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:46:47 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Curl, not weight lifting one, the icey rock one. It's not as simple as pushing a rock down the ice, infact if you're pushing with your arms you're doing it wrong
EctoBurger ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:10:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a stand up comic. A good one. People think it's so damn easy, but there's so many different things to take in to account that most people over look. Like Brian Regan said on Pete Holme's podcast You Made It Weird, (paraphrasing as I don't remember word for word) "I had this guy just act totally dismissive of me. I don't like to tell people I'm a comedian, but i was on the plane and this guy was going on and on about what he does and he finally asked me what I do. I said 'well....I'm a stand up comedian.' And he just goes 'oh, yeah? I could do that.'"
voteferpedro ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:38:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Depends on what you define as good as in "good enough".
zodiki ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:22:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
My Job
candymans ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:34:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Flipping burgers. Try standing there all day, with no clue of when your next shift is going to be and your entire weekly schedule under the whim of some hack manager.
Temperment ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 16:37:18 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Being a professional Driver. Drifting is awesome bro! The fact you nearly died hitting that tree isn't.
the_sameness ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:03:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Mix a live band
Blood_in_the_ring ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:07:01 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most people think that if in a physical altercation that they can and will fight like a professional fighter.
The1andOnlySparrow ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:35:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Play league of legends.
riodosm ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:58:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Film criticism. The amount of pathetically amateurish, heavyhanded, ideological and bandwagoning trash around these days is weird and embarrassing.
TK___421 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:59:52 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography!!
maubenalfidicamo ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:08:46 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
what im thinking reading most of the posts here : oh c'mon I could do that easily
bovfem ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:35:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teach kids. I thought I knew, went into it late in life, found out how hard it is, and every administrator, brother-in-law and parent thinks they can tell you what you are doing wrong. After 10 years, I think I'm pretty good at it.
passion4film ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:38:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Photography. Don't even get me started.
pswjt1 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:15:48 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
ITT: literally everything
Lacking_a_point ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 19:16:06 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
ITT: a bunch of shit everyone knows they suck at. Stand up comedy! Seriously I've never met anyone who was like. "Yeah I could totally do stand up". Same goes for translator, musician, mechanic...
Trevoke ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 21:08:53 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)*
Meetings.
[Edit: I'm sorry my answer isn't imaginative; I'm a consultant. Everyone is really bad at meetings.]
Cryptyc81 ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:19:24 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Design. Any design. They think that because they "can do that" they want to pay me peanuts. Bitch/Asshole, I got a 40grand student loan to learn this shit and you wanna pay me minimum wage?!? Fine do it yourself, come back when you finally realise you suck and you need a professional.
poppyseedlove ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 22:57:12 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a politician. I see so many comments about how politicians are the worst and anyone can do a better job. I agree that most politicians suck, but give them a break because that shit is hard.
[deleted] ยท 3 points ยท Posted at 23:05:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Ideally, anyone should be able to be a politician.
It was designed so that you do it for a little while and go back to your farm or law firm or whatever.
The emergence of a career politician is actually a pretty odd phenomenon.
juanjing ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 23:24:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Marketing.
You may be the best there ever was at fixing cars, financial planning, or baking bread, but that does not mean you have any idea how to tell the public that.
I write ad copy and produce radio commercials, and more often than not, I have to throw a good ad away in favor of one that features the client's kid, or uses their favorite music, or mentions that they have a knowledgeable staff, are locally owned, or any number of other advertising cliches.
LET ME WRITE THE ADS. YOU FOCUS ON THE THINGS YOU ARE GOOD AT.
MamaCallsMePrecious ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 01:39:24 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Way late to the party. But being an entrepreneur. Seeing billionaires seemingly appear out of thin air, some people think "I can do it too, I just need an idea."
The amount of work that goes into being a SUCCESSFUL entrepreneur is insane. You work 60-100hr weeks, and I don't mean work as in working a 30min then dicking off for 15-20 and repeating it throughout your 8 hour shift. It's constant thinking, planning, executing, not getting discouraged by the millions of nos and rare yeses, dealing with employees, dealing with money, competitors, lawyers, product development, product research, and then throw in your personal life on top of that.
It's a fucking nightmare and the reason some people become successful entrepreneurs is because they're on an elite level. Hard work is a skill and talent all rolled into one.
guppymill ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 02:45:59 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teach kids. I'm talking to you, home schoolers.
[deleted] ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 03:56:30 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
ITT: People who want you to know how hard their job is.
FirstTimeLast ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 04:53:00 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Anything to do with music.
You are classically trained and have a degree...this does not mean you know anything about being in/running a band. This also does not mean you have any talent whatsoever.
The last 3 musical directors at my church are excellent examples. The last one was a woman who constantly complained about pop singers having more success than her because she thought she sang better...No, you learned some classic opera technique, but your vocals contain no emotion, your voice isn't pleasant, you sing a style very few people enjoy, and you have no ear for harmony despite all your training.
RougeCrown ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:06:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Appreciating art. People on Reddit thinks that art should be accessible to everybody and hat if thy can't appreciate it it's shit art. Seeing the post making fun of the Maria Abramovic today and it kind of made my blood boil.
Tell you what, art is like any other field: if you don't have knowledge of t then you don't understand it, period. Don't go and make fun of that avant garde art piece because you are uninformed about it. (Or even about how you should appreciate art in the first place)
High art and avant garde are created for a specific group of people. Same as philosophy discussion on the highest level. You don't get it means you don't get it.
screwthat4u ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 18:02:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I find that art is sort of like expensive wine, the more people value it the more others think it holds value. This continues in a loop until everyone claims this piece is highly esteemed, but really don't know why other than everyone believes it. Artificially inflating the price also helps, because if it's expensive, it must be good
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:39:35 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
voteferpedro ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 20:39:05 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Most of Reddit can't even do the morning cardio drill for a WNBA team.
vxicepickxv ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 17:58:23 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
That's well out of my wheelhouse. I can't do that.
slamchop ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 00:24:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a police officer. See it on reddit all the time.
Bring on the downvotes.
_PM_ME_YOUR_NIPPLES ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 12:52:25 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Become a porn star
uReallyShouldTrustMe ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:30:56 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Teach English.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 12:42:14 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
2ignoma ยท 4 points ยท Posted at 13:31:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I believe you're talking about Porn.
Unknownirish ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 14:51:43 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's a exclusive club of sex gods and goddesses.
HailSithisMeh ยท 2 points ยท Posted at 14:04:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
In the famous words of John D. Dorian MD, "I'm sorry but I've never heard a woman make sounds like that." I have been with the same woman for 10 years and the sex is amazing because we know what the other loves and then try new things in a safe environment. I don't think I could have a sexual relationship with anyone else much less be a sex god.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 16:44:03 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
[deleted]
voteferpedro ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:41:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It didn't stop Rick Flair from copying Buddy Rodgers. YOU CON DO EET!
pdmcmahon ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:01:33 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a manager in any capacity whatsoever. I was a supervisor years ago, great money yet I hated it. I've been involved in hiring and firing people, hated it too. I'm much happier being a worker bee.
VulpixVul ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 17:09:19 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Act like an adult.
Geffro ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 18:16:13 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
None of these are things I thought were easy, or heard anyone say was easy.
maybe I just need to talk to more people
Sexiroth ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:06:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Porn.
[deleted] ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:08:21 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
League of Legends
scandalousmambo ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:11:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Write.
garysnailz ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:17:57 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Cutting their own hair
Jakku_Off ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 19:27:15 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Porno
Alvarez_Rules ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 20:04:38 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
NFL Kicker.
I kicked a few 40+ yard field goals messing around one day with not practice and I'm convinced I can be a kicker. I know it can't be that easy, but it sure as hell feels like I can be a professional kicker.
bit1101 ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 23:26:27 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Websites. Everyone. Literally. Edit: except professional website developers, I guess.
yourcoldeyes ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:04:35 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Solve mysteries. We all watched Making a Murderer, I'm sure most of us are aware that it's extremely bias. There's actually a petition to drop charges against the guy from a bunch of people who watched not even 10 hours of documentary and believe they're experts without doing any other background research
STRFCKR ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 01:34:15 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Driving. Most man are guilty of this, truth is you might think you drive like a pro but truth is you don't, and if you don't cut that shit you're gonna crash your shitty car into someone.
NewshoesDance ยท 0 points ยท Posted at 03:09:09 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Porn star.
havenh ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 15:43:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Porn star
JBFRESHSKILLS ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 16:55:31 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Kicking a football through the uprights. We all scream and curse when our kicker misses a field goal. "This motherfucker has one job, ONE! I could've made that!" The fact is, you couldn't even kick an extra point, back when they were still at the 2 yard line.
voteferpedro ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 20:20:55 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
It's actually pretty easy once you learn the technique. The problem is the game day pressure and if you get a good placement by the setter. "LACES OUT!".
[deleted] ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 17:00:00 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
ITT : Everything.
IAmNotScottBakula ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:21:29 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Managing a residence hall on a college campus. People look at it as being a glorified RA position, but in reality it is a full time job that generally requires a masters degree in educational administration.
farmingdale ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:47:58 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
it does not require a masters degree in some made-up field. Come on that is insane.
IAmNotScottBakula ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 15:15:45 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
"Although not universal, some universities require Residence Hall Directors to have earned the minimum of a bachelor's degree, while most others require a master's degree in college student personnel, higher education, or another related or relevant field."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residence_hall_director
farmingdale ยท 1 points ยท Posted at 18:54:28 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
that is tarded
SuperSaiyanTrunks ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 18:44:17 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
I work at Best Buy and hate when I offer protection plans on laptops and people say "oh no thanks, my son is good with computers he can fix it". Guess what? If you spill water on that bitch we would refund you your money. Have fun replacing those laptop parts.
ExecutiveChimp ยท -1 points ยท Posted at 21:17:10 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Be a musician. But more specifically, play percussion. And I'm not even talking about chromatic percussion like xylophones and stuff. I'm talking the basic stuff that you shake - shakers, tambourines, cabasas. I mean obviously anyone can shake a tambourine back and forth and make a sound but you know how many people - including otherwise competent musicians - can shake one in time to a beat in a way that actually sounds good? Like with rhythm and shuffle and variation of intensity and stuff? Well I'm not sure exactly either but it's probably around six. Six people.
garvisgreenpepper ยท -2 points ยท Posted at 15:51:59 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Selling Sperm. It's a full time job.
muncken ยท -3 points ยท Posted at 13:36:22 on January 23, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
Sound
crackbae ยท -5 points ยท Posted at 02:49:55 on January 24, 2016 ยท (Permalink)
pornegrophy